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Code Of Laws (40)

NL 5-5 Treasurer Act

TREASURER

Responsibilities of the Treasurer

The Treasurer shall oversee and be responsible for the receipt and disbursement of all money received by CDS and for the investment of money received by CDS.

It shall also be the responsibility of the Treasurer to assure that the fiscal integrity of CDS is protected and that all funds are accounted for, whether revenues from taxes, rental charges, user charges, fees, grants, gifts, or any other source and that expenditures comply with applicable Linden Labs TOS’s, CDS TOS’s, CDS Constitution and Laws, CDS Policies, Administrative Policies and Procedures, court orders and any other mandates affecting expenditures of funds and the management of CDS.

Duties of the Treasurer

To keep accurate public records regarding the CDS regions, parcels, ownership configuration, and the obligations of each citizen regarding their monthly fee.

To maintain a financial system in a manner consistent with RL standard accounting practices, using standard double-entry bookkeeping principles.

To maintain an open reporting and record systems which provides the Citizens of CDS information regarding the financial status of CDS and land ownership data.

To cooperate with the bodies of government as established by the citizens of CDS in carrying out the duties and responsibilities of the office and to work with any special Committees established by such bodies to develop and implement suitable oversight systems.

To perform other duties as assigned.

In addition, the Treasurer is responsible for establishing controls that will prevent any expenditure of funds that does not meet the requirement of this policy. Violations or attempted violations of this policy are to be reported to the Chancellor, RA and SC (or their successors) immediately upon detection.

Internal Controls

The Treasurer shall be responsible for establishing and maintaining internal control procedures that include but are not limited to:

Proper authorization of transactions and activities.

Adequate documents and records.

Adequate safeguards over access and use of assets and records.

Accounting System

In order that CDS present fairly and with full disclosure its financial position and results of operations, the Treasurer is responsible for establishing and maintaining an effective accounting system that will result in the identification and recording of all valid transactions. The accounting system shall include:

Description on a timely basis of the type of transaction in sufficient detail to permit proper classification of the transaction for financial reporting.

Measurement of the transaction’s value in a manner that permits recording of its monetary value in the financial statements.

Date in which the transaction occurred to permit recording of the transaction in the proper accounting period.

Proper presentation of the transaction and related disclosures in the financial statements.

Policy Regarding the Treasurer

The RL person, in the form of their principal avatar, must be a citizen of CDS as defined by CDSL 16-03 Citizenship Establishment Act.

The position of Treasurer shall be understood as a “civil service” type position. The citizen holding this role will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in CDS government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC. The Treasurer shall be appointed by the Chancellor, with the advice and consent of the RA, and shall hold their position until they may resign or be removed for cause.

passed 14 September 2006

Updated by the 32nd RA, April 13, 2020

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CDSL 39-01 Artisan Guild Act

1 Motivation and Purpose

(A) The Artisan Guild is a governmental organization based in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) with the purpose of providing advice and skilled creations to the CDS community, its Representative Assembly and Executive Branch. Its powers and permissions are directly tied to public discussions in the CDS Discussion Forums and to the votes of the Representative Assembly. The Artisan Guild shall process orders on behalf of the legislative and executive branches of the CDS. It thus shall be responsive to requests from the Representative Assembly and the Chancellor, but may set its own agenda.

(B) The Artisan Guild exists to encourage and assist a high standard of excellence in the creative output of content of Second Life residents. It fosters the exchange of knowledge and mutual assistance between Guild members. Its mission is to ultimately address all creative skills applicable to Second Life.

(D) The Artisan Guild has following functions:

(1) expert advice to Representative Assembly and Executive when requested,
(2) execute projects for content when so requested by the Executive,
(3) assist citizens with their building projects within CDS,
(4) assist the Chancellor in fulfilling his/her constitutional tasks with respect to land use and to help integrate new buildings and infrastructure into the landscape, and
(5) work out and recommend concepts of region development and usage both on public and private land, to advise the Representative Assembly on keeping the covenants up to date and recommend new, more effective technologies as they become available.

(E) The Artisan Guild is obliged to report about its activities to the Representative Assembly at least once per CDS Term.

(F) The Chancellor and the Representative Assembly may ask the Artisan Guild for information about ongoing projects of public interest anytime. The Artisan Guild is obliged to submit the requested information within two weeks, as latest till the next Representative Assembly meeting.

2 Membership, Structures and Roles

(A) The Artisan Guild has the right to decide a Charter. This Charter may include, but is not limited to detailed descriptions of tasks and roles, rights and obligations, definitions of competences and organizational regulations. Only Artisans are allowed to vote on Charter-related matters (see (B)).

(B) There are two classes of membership: Friend and Artisan. Only Artisans have the right to vote. The detailed rights and duties of members shall be defined in the Charter.

(C) There shall be no limitation of membership in respect to the parallel membership in one of the governmental powers (Executive, Representative Assembly, Scientific Council). The only criterions counting for determining the membership class are the respective definitions in the Charter.

(D) Guild Officers of Guildmeister, Secretary and Treasurer shall be Artisans. Guildmeister and Secretary shall be elected once per term of office at an Artisan Guild meeting. Should the position of Treasurer be vacant, that too will be elected by a majority of voting members. Further regulations regarding election, by-election, resigning or removing of Guild Officers shall be subject to the Charter.

3 Meetings and Votes

(A) The Artisan Guild shall hold enough meetings per CDS term to elect new Officers and to fulfill its objectives and duties set out in Paragraph 1.

(B) The Artisan Guild shall follow democratic modes of decision making as usual at any CDS panel. Though meetings are public in general and citizens are welcome to attend at any time, only Artisans shall have the right to vote (see Paragraph 2 (B)).

4 Public Information and Discourse Policy

(A) Permanent changes to public land, outside of the seasonal tree and ground texture changes and official CDS temporary structures for events, have to be announced in the CDS Forum and allow a sufficient comment period to make sure the interests and concerns of all interested citizens can be taken into account by the Representative Assembly. Public spaces have to be developed in accordance with policy and changes need to be subject to public comment and review.

(B) The duration of comment periods in the CDS Forums is defined in CDSL 34-02.

(C) The regulations of the Artisan Guild Act regarding transparent region development guidelines must not be in contradiction to other laws.

5 Additional Regulations

(A) With the enactment of this Artisan Guild Act, the Land Use Commission Act is retired as obsolete. At the same time, the Artisan Guild shall become the legal successor to the Land Use Commission.

CDSL 39-01 Artisan Guild Act
Enacted 14 October 2023

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NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act

Preamble

An Estate Owner (EO) is a role defined both by Linden Lab (LL) and by the system of governance of the regions comprising CDS.

In CDS, the EO receives the funds needed to satisfy the required monthly subscription fee to LL. In addition, the EO must duly execute actions within their sole ability to perform, resulting from decisions of the various authorized entities of the governing system. These are primarily actions required to be performed on the “Estate” menu. Many of these duties can be delegated to various Estate Managers. Paying the monthly fee cannot be delegated.

Requirements for the Office of EO

To ensure the performance of these necessary functions, the following is required for the Office of EO.

The Office of EO must comprise of at least one RL person and at most two RL persons, functioning as the Estate Owner through the EO avatar.
The RL person(s), in the form of their principal avatar (The EO), shall be a citizen of a region within the CDS.
The EO shall be appointed by a 2/3 vote of the individual members of government. Each sitting member of the SC and the RA, as well as the Chancellor, is entitled to one vote.
The RL person(s) must use an alternate avatar dedicated to the sole purpose of CDS Estate Owner (EO avatar); that is, one different from their primary SL persona avatar. This EO avatar shall technically be the CDS bank account. All funds of the EO avatar are and shall remain the property of CDS.
The RL person(s) controlling the EO avatar shall serve for life, or until they resign, or until they are removed for cause by a 2/3 vote of the individual members of government. Each sitting member of the SC and the RA, as well as the Chancellor, is entitled to one vote.
The RL person(s) shall be replaced for any of these reasons only with a three month transition period to allow for transfer of ownership. The position may never be vacant.
The EO shall designate funds each month to pay monthly LL fees in a timely fashion. Each month, the EO will report all receipts and disbursements, as well as the balance of their account to the Treasurer to allow them to perform their bookkeeper duties.
Upon the direction of the Chancellor, the EO will appoint Estate Managers to carry out land management responsibilities.
As required, the EO will receive instructions from the duly constituted authorities of CDS governance to perform necessary actions.
The EO will receive no compensation for the office. In addition, the RL person(s) controlling the EO avatar will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in CDS government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC. The only compensation provided will be the ceremonial title “Owner of the Estate”.

Contingency Planning

The Estate Owner shall create a written contingency plan to be enacted in the event of an unanticipated or unexplained absence of the RL person(s) controlling Estate Owner avatar.
This plan will be reviewed at the beginning of each Term of government and revised as appropriate.
The contingency must include current contact information for at least two individuals, entrusted by the Estate Owner with all necessary information to make RL contact with the Estate Owner and to facilitate an orderly transition to a successor EO.
The active contingency plan shall be shared with at least these two designated individuals, as well as the Dean of the SC.
In the event of a suspected emergency where the EO is unable to be reached for 30 days, the Dean may activate the Contingency Plan.
The Dean shall call a meeting of the SC, the RA, and the Chancellor to meet within ten (10) days of activating the Contingency Plan to appoint a successor EO.

passed 14 September 2006
amended 16 September 2006
updated by the 32nd RA, April 21, 2020

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NL 5-7 Civil Service Act

A. Objective

To allow for the appointment of individuals to carry out the actions of the CDS governing bodies.

B. Civil Service Positions and Members

Civil service positions are established by legislative action by the RA and appointed civil servants may receive compensation provided by the Chancellor’s CDS budget. Legislation will describe the position and duties but will not specify the individual that will fill that role.

Civil service members are appointed by the Executive Branch to fill a specific position established by law and serve for a term defined by that law.

The Executive Branch may dismiss a cilvil servant for not executing the duties described in this bill. Any dismissed civil servant may appeal a dismissal with the Scientific Council.

C. Civil Service Duties

Civil servants pledge to faithfully protect the constitution and to execute legislation passed by the RA at the direction of the Executive Branch.

Civil servants are required to execute regulations and directives where these do not conflict with laws passed by the RA, and to follow guidelines or oversight provided by the Executive Branch.
If a civil servant finds a discrepancy between an regulation or directive and laws passed by the RA which cannot be resolved in discussion with the Executive Branch they are required to ask for clarification from the Scientific Council.
Where there are no relevant regulations or directives, civil servants are required to execute RA laws to the best of their ability.
Civil servants are required to provide full and accurate information about their activities and the state of land, CDS organization, assets, and finances to the Executive Branch and the RA as requested.
Civil servants are expected to propose and participate in drafting regulations and directives for consideration by the Executive Branch.

passed 16 September 2006

updated and amended by the 29th RA, November 5, 2018

updated and amended by the 33rd RA, August 25, 2020

updated and amended by the 34th RA, February 13, 2021 to strike Section D. Transparent Region Development Guidelines which read, “Permanent changes to public land, outside of the seasonal tree and ground texture changes and official CDS temporary structures for events, have to be announced in the forums and allow a comment period of 10 days, to make sure the interests of neighboring parcel owners are taken into account. Public spaces have to be developed in accordance with policy and changes need to be subject to public comment and review.”

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NL 5-16 An Act Establishing a Special Commission on the Judiciary and Revising the Judicial Code of Procedure

Special Commission on the Judiciary – (aka The Soothsayer Rules)

Substantial concerns regarding the Judiciary Act and its implementation have been raised by a significant number of citizens, a number of proposals have been made to amend or repeal the Judiciary Act, and considerable discussion has taken place on the forums.
The RA concludes that it is appropriate to seek public input regarding the Judiciary Act beyond that which occurs on the forums, and therefore appoints a Special Commission on the Judiciary, to be co-chaired by an RA member to be named by the leader of each faction. Any citizen may join as a member of the Commission by sending notification to the LRA by IM.
The Special Commission shall take public testimony regarding the Judiciary Act, judicial qualifications, and the Code of Procedure in at least two hearings to be scheduled by the co-chairs between (a) _1_:00 pmSLT and _4_:00 SLT (Euro-friendly) and (b) 3:00 SLT and 10:00 pm SLT (US mainland friendly). Each citizen wishing to address the Commission shall be afforded the opportunity to speak uninterrupted for up to five minutes, following which testimony the hearing shall be open for dialogue. Public testimony may also be made by written submission to the forums.
The Special Commission shall meet on December 13, 2006 to make written recommendations to the RA no later than 5:00 pm SLT on December 14, 2006 regarding what action, if any, the RA should take on the various proposals to amend or repeal the Judiciary Act, and the recommendations shall be posted on the forums. Any member or group of members of the Special Commission may submit dissenting opinions on the forums.
The RA will consider the report of the Special Commission and any dissenting opinions during its regularly scheduled meeting on December 16, 2006.
The Code of Procedure issued on December 5, 2006 is hereby replaced with the following:
1. Rule 1 – Initiating notecard
  A case is be initiated by submitting a notecard containing (1) name of the Complainant, (2) name of the Respondent(s), and (3) a short and simple statement of the facts of the case. The notecard shall be dropped into the inventory of the Chair of the Judiciary Commission, who shall within 24 hours send the notecard and IM notice of the submission of the notecard to each defendant(s), and the Chair shall maintain a record of having done so.
2. Rule 2 – Reply notecard
  A Respondent shall reply to the initiating notecard within ten days by submitting a reply notecard containing a short and simple statement of the facts of the case. The reply notecard shall be dropped into the inventory of the Chair of the Judiciary Commission, who shall within 24 hours send the notecard and IM notice of the submission of the notecard to the Complainant, and the Chair shall maintain a record of having done so.
3. Rule 3 – Pretrial hearing
  Within ten days of service of the Rule 2 notecard on the Complainant(s), the court shall convene a meeting of the parties (either at the same time in world, via IM, or via email) to discuss any procedures required for handling the case. The parties may agree on a pretrial order setting forth the procedures and timetable by which the case will be handled, including any trial procedures. In the event that no agreement is reached, the court may issue a pretrial order.
4. Rule 4 – No costs, attorneys fees or other expenses
  There shall be no court costs or attorneys fees assessed against any party, and all parties shall bear their own expenses, unless a contract between the parties or an Act passed by the RA provides otherwise.
5. Rule 5 – Judgments
  The court may enter judgment following trial, or upon motion by a party as long as all parties have been given an opportunity to be heard on the motion. The court may enter judgment by default if a party fails to participate at any stage, so long as the party is given notice via notecard providing for at least ten days to show cause why default judgment should not be entered.

passed as revised 10 December 2006

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NL 5-19 Judiciary Revision Procedure Act

Our experience with the Judiciary has brought it to our attention that revisions are needed to protect citizen’s rights and to make sure that the power of the judiciary is balanced with that of other branches. This bill changes the code of procedure to accommodate changes in the constitution and plots a way forward towards future judiciary-oriented legislation.

The Code of Procedure is amended to replace all references to the ‘Chair of the Judiciary Commission’ with ‘the Dean of the Scientific Council.’
Starting with the new session the RA will appoint a committee to work with the SC to develop a model for the judiciary functions of the CDS. The committee will solicit public input about proposals as they are developed, then report back to the RA.
The SC will participate only to provide ideas and advice. In order to protect the separation of powers the report and recommendations presented to the RA by will be that of the RA members only and not the SC.

passed 6 January 2007

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NL 5-20 Arbitration Act

This act enables and regulates arbitration in the CDS

Any parties to a dispute, which could be heard by a CDS Court, may agree to resolve their case by arbitration. Parties may also agree in advance that future disputes of a specified sort will be resolved by arbitration rather than a CDS Court.
Arbitration may take any form and procedure agreed between the parties.
The agreement to arbitrate and the process the arbitration will take must be put in writing by the parties when the agreement is made.
Once parties agree to arbitration they and the CDS Courts must treat the arbitration agreement as binding. A court may only reconsider the arbitration if:
- (a) The arbiter did not follow the agreed procedure; or
- (b) a party can show that they suffered substantial injustice as a result of a serious flaw in the arbitration process.
No arbitration agreement may:
- (a) Give the arbiter power to banish a party or impose any sanction reserved to a branch of the CDS government, or
- (b) Effect any impeachment jurisdiction
An arbitration agreement may provide for the result to be appealed to a CDS Court.

passed 13 January 2007

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NL 5-21 Citizen Involvement Act

Preamble

A bill to enhance citizen involvement in the government of the CDS; also to promote the deeper analysis of proposals in discussion and as means to aid the RA in their legislative work.

For any proposal in discussion, the RA can decide that a commission be formed to analyse the proposal.
The RA will decide the remit, responsibilities, lifespan and which powers, if any, it wants to delegate to the commission, with the exception of legislative powers.
The commission must be chaired by a member of the RA.
The commission shall have at least three members.
Any citizen of the CDS may join a commission, and must indicate their availability to the chair.
The commission must report on progress to the RA at each subsequent RA meeting.
In the event where the commission makes a formal recommendation to the RA it must include information about the extent to which it is supported by the full commission along with information about dissenting minorities and their alternative preference.
This act shall not preclude the assignment of bills to committee by the RA or LRA without legislative act.

passed as amended 13 January 2007

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NL 7-1 Government Question Time Act

Government Question Time Act

Rationale:

In order to make the government more accessible this Act establishes an informal Government Question Time with at least one government ‘official’ from each branch of government present, once per month. The Chancellor may schedule additional Government Question Time meetings based on public demand. These meetings will be open to all CDS citizens to come and ask questions. The meetings will rotate to suit the RL hours of our community.

1. The Chancellor is charged with organizing a Government Question Time at least once per month. All members of the government (Executive, Legislative and Philosophical branches) will be invited to attend with at least one official from each attending.

2. The Chancellor is charged with facilitating representation from all three branches.

3. The Chancellor will rotate the hours of the Government Question Time to take into account the different time zones of the CDS community and to ensure representation from the different branches of government.

4. Meetings will be chaired by one of the government officials present and will be open to all citizens to attend. The Chair may be handed over to another government official present by a simple majority vote of those in attendance.

5. GHQ meetings will be summarized by the chair of each meeting, identifying who represented govt, what questions were asked and a transcript of the answers. These summaries will be posted in the Q&A Forum within seven (7) days.

6. For each Question Time, the Chair will — at least seven (7) days in advance — announce date, time and meeting location in the Forum and via group notice. In the minutes before each Question Time begins, the Chair (or an alternate) will announce date, time and meeting location via group notice and in group IM.

7. Citizens will be invited by the Chair to ask questions at the beginning of the meeting, or to submit written questions via notecard in advance to the Chair, who will forward these questions to the Chancellor, Dean, and LRA in advance of the scheduled meeting.

8. The Government Question Time meeting may be adjourned after all questions have been addressed or after 60 minutes, whichever comes first.

Original version passed 5 August 2007
Revised by the 25th RA, 10 September 2016
Updated by the 32nd RA, 5 April 2020
Updated by the 38th RA, 21 January 2023
Updated by the 38th RA, 6 May 2023

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NL 7-9 Financial Reporting Act

Financial Reporting Act

The Chancellor will be required to issue a monthly report listing all income and expenditures made by the executive branch, including contributions received by the CDS and RA allocated funds. The report must indicate the individual who contributed or received funds, and the exact amount received or spent, or, if this is not possible, a realistic estimate of the value of services or contributions in kind. The report should include the total tier received, but need not list it by individual.

Contributions include any funds given or gifts in kind to the CDS, the Chancellor, or any member of the executive staff made in connection with any event, activity, or project sponsored or run by the executive branch. Expenditures include any payment for a good or service spent in connection with a any event, activity, or project sponsored or run by the executive branch.

The Chancellor must remove any staff member found to have violated this statute.

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NL 8-3 Celebrating our Volunteers Act

Proposal by theprincessparisi on Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:23 am

In order to make sure that the history of CDS is not forgotten, and especially that the people who have given so much of themselves to make CDS are duly honored and celebrated.,I would like to suggest that we begin a formal process to do just that.

In the process of Mizou researching and writing the history for The CDS Guided Tour she said she envisions a physical space as well in NFS where the history of CDS can be displayed. Along with this it would be appropriate to initiate a sort of CDS Hall of Fame……a place where the individuals who have given so much of themselves can be honored and their accomplishments celebrated.
This “hall of fame” for lack of a better tern, which i hope someone suggests. Could be initiated with the grand opening of the guided tour. And perhaps the three initial members could be decided by the RA or SC or both. Subsequently, the chancellor would appoint a new member and his/her rationale to the Hall of Fame at the end of the term.
This could be formally done along with a ceremony to “pass the baton” so to speak, and perhaps literally to the newly elected chancellor at the Inagural Event.
It would be nice to formalize the transistion of one chancellor to another .

A physical space in NFS where CDS history is displayed.
A space for a CDS Hall of Gratitude.
That the initial members are selected by the RA and SC
That the process for selecting new members is a duty of the outgoing chancelor and
A regular transition event of one chancellor to another formally inducts the new “hall of honor” member.

(source: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1764&p=10799&hilit=+Celebrating+our+Volunteers#p10799)

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NL 8-5 CDS Code Reorganization Act

I. Introduction

In order to best serve the citizens of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators by providing a clear, concise, and relevant set of legislative code, the Representative Assembly hearby enacts the following provisions for the organization and classification of the C.D.S. Code.

II. Organization

All Legislation will be categorized into one of three categories:

Active: Code that is current and in force.
Repealed: Code that has been repealed by direct action of the Representative Assembly, or by the passage of superseding legislation.
Archaic: Code that has either a) served its designed purpose, whether as designated with a “sunset clause” or by the context of the legislation or, b) has been rendered ineffective by updates to Linden Labs TOS or C.D.S. Founding Documents

The R.A. Archivist or appointee shall maintain an up-to-date working archive of all Active code, as well as a separate historical archive of all code, regardless of classification.

III. Initial Classification of Code

Active Code

NL 3-6 MoCA Act
NL 3-9 US Dollar Accounting Act

NL 4-2 Marketplatz Zoning Act
NL 4-3 Land Sales Reporting Act
NL 4-5 Central Commercial District Land Fee Act
NL 4-6 Financial Reserves Act
NL 4-7 Central Commercial District Land Allocation Act
NL 4-8 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act
NL 4-10 Prim Farm Act
NL 4-12 MoCA Charter Acceptance Act
NL 4-13 MoCA Franchise Agreement
NL 4-14 Registration and Incorporation Act
NL 4-15 Neualtenburger Bank Act
NL 4-16 Public Prim Allotment Act
NL 4-17 Anzere Infohub Act
NL 4-18 City Building Redundancy Act
NL 4-20 Construction Authority Act (supercedes NL 3-10)
NL 4-21 Public Building Deletion Act
NL 4-23 Public Property Protection Act
NL 4-24 Defense of the Republic Act
NL 4-25 RA Vacancy Act
NL 4-26 Public Information Act

NL 5-1 Flag Act
NL 5-4 Franchulate Act
NL 5-5 Treasurer Act
NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act
NL 5-7 Civil Service Act
NL 5-8 Covenant Revision Act
NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act (amended by NL 7-7)
NL 5-10 Microplot Termination Act
NL 5-15 Citizen Information Act
NL 5-16 An Act Establishing a Special Commission on the Judiciary and Revising the Judicial Code of Procedure (aka The Soothsayer Rules)
NL 5-17 Census Scheduling Act
NL 5-18 Faction Membership Reporting Act
NL 5-19 Judiciary Revision Procedure Act
NL 5-20 Arbitration Act
NL 5-21 Citizen Involvement Act

NL 6-2 New Guild Establishment Act

NL 7-1 Government Question Hour Act
NL 7-3 Web Portal Act
NL 7-4 Re-establish the Citizenship Commission Act
NL 7-5 Electoral Reform Amendment Act
NL 7-6 Land Sale Reform Act
NL 7-7 Amendment to NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act
NL 7-8 Teleportation Improvement Act
NL 7-9 Financial Reporting Act
NL 7-10 IP Licensing and Content Archivist Act

NL 8-1 Commerce Commission Act
NL 8-2 “In-Theme” Expansion Act

Repealed Code

NL 3-10 Construction Authority Act
NL 4-4 Election Scheduling Act (repealed)
NL 4-11 Citizenship Expansion Act (The Microplot Act)
NL 5-11 Judiciary Act (partially repealed)

Archaic Code

NL 3-1 Fountain Act
NL 3-2 City Lag Reduction Act
NL 3-3 Tiny City Removal Act
NL 3-4 Casino Removal Act
NL 3-5 Holiday Chalet Rental Act
NL 3-7 Rathaus Act
NL 3-8 Texture Size Reduction Act
NL 3-11 Neualtenburg Bond Act
NL 3-12 Neualtenburg Notary Act

NL 4-1 Guildhall Act
NL 4-9 Expansion Planning Act
NL 4-19 Neualtenburg School Charter Acceptance Act
NL 4-22 Housing Restitution Act
NL 4-27 Naming Procedures Act
NL 4-28 Rebuilding Funding Act

NL 5-2 Fundraising for Expansion Act
NL 5-3 Gwynethstrasse Relocation Act
NL 5-12 Land Deed Format Amendment Act
NL 5-13 Judiciary and Scientific Council Finance Act
NL 5-14 Colonia Nova Project Debt Limit Act
NL 5-22 Regional Planning Commission Act

NL 6-1 Code Reorganization Commission Act
NL 6-3 Event Support Act
NL 6-4 Sale of Undeveloped Area Act

NL 7-2 Events Promotion Act

IV. Regular Code Reviews

The R.A. Archivist shall conduct a survey of all legislation classified as Active at the beginning of each term of the Representative Assembly, to identify any legislation that should be reclassified as Archaic or Repealed. This report shall be made to the R.A. no later than one month from the beginning of the term, to be voted on by the members of the Representative Assembly. Legislation may be reclassified with a simple majority vote.

Rational for Classification of Archaic Code – Not part of code text

NL 3-1 Fountain Act
– Fountain has long since been purchased, and since replaced.
NL 3-2 City Lag Reduction Act
– Code has been condensed into current CDS Covenant.
NL 3-3 Tiny City Removal Act
– Tiny City has been removed, code has served its purpose.
NL 3-4 Casino Removal Act
– Casino has been removed, code has served its purpose.
NL 3-5 Holiday Chalet Rental Act
– Holiday Chalet has been dismantled, code no longer relevant.
NL 3-7 Rathaus Act
– Rathaus has been built and paid for, code has served its purpose.
NL 3-8 Texture Size Reduction Act
– Texture size is part of the CDS general covenant, code is redundant.
NL 3-11 Neualtenburg Bond Act
– Issuance of Interest bearing bonds is prohibited, per LL ban on banking services.
NL 3-12 Neualtenburg Notary Act
– Notary machine is disabled and unlikely to return to service.

NL 4-1 Guildhall Act
– The Guild no longer exists in this context, code is no longer relevant.
NL 4-9 Expansion Planning Act
– Included a sunset clause, which has elapsed.
NL 4-19 Neualtenburg School Charter Acceptance Act
– The Neualtenburg School no longer exists.
NL 4-22 Housing Restitution Act
– Included Sunset clause for reimbursement of funds, code has served its purpose.
NL 4-27 Naming Procedures Act
– Neufreistadt and C.D.S. names chosen, code has served its purpose.
NL 4-28 Rebuilding Funding Act
– Reconstruction has been completed, code has served its purpose.

NL 5-2 Fundraising for Expansion Act
– Colonia Nova has been purchased, sunset clause elapsed, code has served its purpose.
NL 5-3 Gwynethstrasse Relocation Act
– Relocation complete, code has served its purpose.
NL 5-12 Land Deed Format Amendment Act
– Land deeds no longer used in this context. Code is no longer relevant.
NL 5-13 Judiciary and Scientific Council Finance Act
–
NL 5-14 Colonia Nova Project Debt Limit Act
– Colonia Nova construction complete, code has served its purpose.
NL 5-22 Regional Planning Commission Act
– Code included a Sunset clause which has elapsed.

NL 6-1 Code Reorganization Commission Act
– Code included a sunset clause which has elapsed.
NL 6-3 Event Support Act
– Code included a sunset clause which has elapsed.
NL 6-4 Sale of Undeveloped Area Act
– Alpine Meadow built, code included sunset clause which has elapsed.

NL 7-2 Events Promotion Act
– Code included a sunset clause which has elapsed.

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NL 10-4 Referendum Act

Preamble:

A Referendum Question can be seen as a set of up to five questions, to be unambiguously answered ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, and posed to all citizens.

Each Referendum Question addresses a specific topic, subject, or theme, and is advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.

Thus the RA determines:

“The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot, which shall not be legally binding.”

Adopted by the RA 15 March 2009

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CDSL 13-01 Public Information Act

This Act clarifies the duties of the Chancellor pursuant to Article II, Section 2(c) of the Constitution. The Chancellor shall be responsible for overseeing the production and maintenance of publicity and public information with respect to the actions, policies and history of the CDS government. In order to ensure no one is overburdened, and that obligations pursuant to this law are met in a timely fashion, this authority may and should be delegated, in whole or in part, to a Public Information Team. Pursuant to the Constitution, however, the Chancellor retains the responsibility for the performance of these duties.

The Chancellor shall designate a Public Information Team, with individual duties specified in writing and made publicly available at the beginning of each term. Functions including maintenance of the calendar, group event notice supervision, inworld physical information source (kiosks, magazines, handouts, etc.) development and maintenance, shall each be assigned to a named individual reporting regularly to the Chancellor.

The Chancellor shall be responsible for ensuring that all information about the CDS made publicly available within the CDS regions is current and up to date at all times.

The Chancellor shall arrange for information kiosks to be deployed and maintained at high-traffic points in each CDS region. These kiosks are to include, at minimum, maps of each region identifying the purpose and ownership of each building; brief and uncontroversial information about the origins and purpose of the CDS; and a pictorial guide to the CDS as a whole. This information also shall be made available in a simple package which can be distributed to visitors, new citizens or other interested parties.

The Chancellor shall ensure that group subscribers for the CDS inworld group are available at a broad range of public sites within the CDS, and at all official events. Posting access to this group shall be open to all citizens. The Chancellor shall designate a member of the Public Information Team to be responsible for oversight of notice policy, and for assisting any citizen who may have content concerns or language difficulties, to post notices in conformity with the guidelines. Use of the group by citizens, within the guidelines, for any event which might be of general interest, shall be strongly encouraged.

Passwords for all official media channels shall be held by the Chancellor and appropriate members of the Public Information Team, the LRA and the Dean of the SC. Under no circumstances shall these passwords be known only to one person. At the beginning of their term, the Chancellor shall change all passwords and immediately notify the LRA and the Dean of the SC of the new passwords for the term.

All informational, public relations and other promotional activities not specifically assigned to the Chancellor under this Act shall be the responsibility of citizens, acting as individuals or through regional, trade or other non-governmental associations.

Group Notice Guidelines

All land-owning citizens shall have the right, but not the obligation, to have group notice access.

The CDS group is made up of persons interested in the project of CDS, so notices should focus on events within the sims. No spam please. No event occurring within CDS should be announced on group notices more than three times within 7 days.

The CDS community is made up of diverse and interesting individuals with activities throughout the SL grid, which also may be of interest to our members. Therefore any citizen who wishes to announce events occurring OUTSIDE of CDS is encouraged to submit their events to the Chancellor to include in weekly announcements or otherwise approved for distribution and placement on the CDS Calendar.

Events must be open to all (no discrimination) (except griefers), and groups are encouraged to open their membership to attendees.

There shall be no charge for admission to any events announced on the CDS group channel.

No solicitation of funds shall be made on Group Notices or on the CDS channel.

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Modified by the 31st RA, October, 2019

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CDSL 13-04 Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act

Article II, Section 5 on the CDS Constitution – Deleted and replaced with:

The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the SC.
The Chancellor will serve a term ending with the election of the next Chancellor.
The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council.
Chancellor vacancies will be filled by a by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.

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CDSL 13-05 Chancellor Election Act

Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold at most two terms in succession.
Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
In the event that there is only one declared candidate for Chancellor, the declared candidate shall be acclaimed into office without a campaign period or polling.
In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
The voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Assembly election does not work for single-candidate elections.
Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.
In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after less than half the term, a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.

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CDSL 13-09 Campaigning Act

1. The campaign period officially begins two weeks before the last election day and ends when the polls close.

2. Candidates are expected to conduct campaigns in a civil and respectful manner. Citizens should only receive campaign material that they wish to receive. Campaigning is an act of peaceful assembly and the exercise of freedom of expression and thus protected by Articles 19 and 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

3. Campaigning is further restricted by existing regulations, including:

a) The Linden Lab Terms of Service and Community Standards (which forbid griefing and spamming)

b) The CDS Covenants (which limit the defacing of buildings and public spaces)

c) UDHR Article 12 (which forbids defamation and libel)

d) UDHR Article 29 (2) (which allows restrictions to be set by law to give due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and comply with requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society)

4. Candidates are encouraged to hold campaign events during the campaign period.

a. These events may be announced in the CDS in-world group notices and group IM
b. The General and Event Forums may also be used to announce any campaign events or to invite discussions with the citizenry
c. Candidates may not use the CDS in-world group notices or IM to distribute campaign material

5. Campaign signs may be placed under the following conditions:

a. No scripted signage is permitted in any location, other than a simple notecard giver that hands out info when touched
b. Signage shall be limited to a land impact of three (3)
c. Signs may be set to full bright to be seen in all light conditions, but please avoid glow as it can make signs unreadable, and hovertext is not allowed
d. The maximum size of signs may be up to 2.0m x 2.0m x 0.5m
e. Candidates may place up to one sign in each of three public CDS locations, within 10m of the info kiosks located at: Colonia Nova Forum Plaza, Locus Amoenus, and Neufreistadt Platz
f. Candidates are not restricted in number or placement of signs on privately-owned land, within the bounds of good taste and common sense
g. Within 48 hours of the end of the campaign period, all outdoor campaign signs are to be removed.

This law was revised by the 31st RA, August 19, 2019

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CDSL 13-11 Budget and Accountability Act

1. No payments shall be made by the executive without first having a budget approved by the RA. For purposes of this Act, the budget shall include only discretionary spending and not tier payment to Linden Lab.
2. The Chancellor shall present, the budget for each term for approval by the Representative Assembly, by posting and notification to the LRA, no later than the thirtieth day of each term.
3. The Representative Assembly may approve the budget as posted, send it back for revision or reject it, within thirty days of posting.
4. Revisions must be made by the Chancellor within 14 days of the response from the RA. Failure by the Chancellor to revise and re-post shall be deemed a rejection of the budget.
5. Failure of the Representative Assembly to revise, reject or approve the budget within thirty days of posting shall be deemed approval as posted.
6. Changes in the budget in excess of 10% of the total discretionary funds shall be resubmitted to the RA for approval.

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CDSL 15-01 Order of Anzere Act

1. An order is establish in order to honor CDS citizen for their contributions to the community. Its name is “Order of Anzere”. Its form is a medal.

2. The following actions are seen as special contribution: building, organization of events or any other attraction, contribution to the history or to the documentation of the the community.

3. Only benevolent contributions can be taken in consideration. It is not possible to get the Order of Anzere for a work made as civil servant.

4. The RA decides the attribution of the order to one or several citizen.

Passed 17 July 2011

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CDSL 15-02 City Building Redundancy Act

Amend NL 4-18 City Building Redundancy Act to read:

Full perm copies of all CDS owned buildings shall be provided by the builder to the Content Archivist. The full-permission copy is for the CDS intended purpose only, and not to be given or sold otherwise.

Passed 17 July 2011

Amended by RA 25-01-2020

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CDSL 16-03 Citizenship Establishment Act

CDSL 13-10, Citizenship Bill, attempted to define more precisely the link between citizenship and land established as a fundamental principle in the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) in its Article VI – Citizenship. It tried to establish guidelines on how to incorporate the citizenship grant made to citizens who used previous laws to become citizens without a direct relationship with land ownership.

However, in subsequent events, it was made clear that the extraordinary amount of legislation covering all possible cases for citizenship complicated the establishment of an official List of Citizens as per the requirements of NL 5-15, Citizen Information Act. As a result, this list is rarely updated and requires individual validation of each and every member on the list.

Therefore, this bill provides a new and easier method to validate citizenship by keeping to the guidelines set forth in the Constitution.

1. Granting title to land” is defined as being listed as the individual owner of a parcel of land, or as being a CDS-registered owner of group-deeded land, as shown in the About Land tool (or whatever technological feature of the official Second Life Viewer shows the ownership of a parcel).

2. Citizens shall be entitled to run for an office in CDS elections and/or vote if, on the date set by the Scientific Council in accordance with the Constitution for this purpose, they own at least one parcel of land and are current in their tier payments for at least this parcel. In cases where the parcel owner is a group, each group registered citizen must be listed as the tier payor and current in tier payment for at least one qualifying group-owned parcel. A citizen shall be an individual avatar whose name appears on both the Casper list as being current in tier payments and either 1) on a list of current individual parcel owners or 2) a CDS-registered owner of group deeded land.

3. Private land can optionally be deeded to any group, but that does not automatically entitle any member of the group to the title of the land. “Granting title to land” requires a separate CDS group registration process. Mistakenly deeded land should be reverted, optionally with the assistance from an Estate Manager or any similar role with the appropriate land management powers.

4. Public land, or land owned by organizations incorporated in the CDS, can be deeded to a group. This does not grant members of the group any title to the land.

5. Citizenship derived solely through membership of a group or through being the partner of a CDS citizen is hereby abolished.

6. Membership in any “waiting list” for the acquisition of a parcel in CDS does not confer citizenship status to those members.

7. CDS Group Registration Process

A citizen in good standing may apply for group citizenship. The application is to be directed to the Chancellor via notecard with a copy to the Dean.

The application for group citizenship must contain: citizen applicant’s login name, login names of any proposed group citizens and their group administrator status, group name and group key, parcel tierbox name and parcel ID to be deeded to the group, and the login name of the individual tierbox tenant to be set for each parcel.

Each individual group citizen must be the tenant for at least one tierbox, no more than one individual may be a tierbox tenant, and a maximum number of five (5) group citizens are allowed per group.

Prim parcels and their tierboxes are locked to ensure that they are properly regulated; they are reserved to supplement the prims of small parcels. Ownership of a prim parcel does not qualify for citizenship, whether individually or through a group.

Designated group administrators named in the application will be authorized to request CDS Estate Managers to take action on any group-owned parcel, not only those with a tierbox in their individual name.

The Chancellor will make a public post of the application to the Forum for a 7-day period to allow for public comment. Challenges to any application must state a valid cause to be considered and shall be directed to the Dean via notecard who will adjudicate any such challenge. If no valid challenges are received after the seven day period, the Chancellor will approve the application without delay. Successful challenges will be reported by the Dean and result in application denial.

Any change to the CDS-Registered owners of group land, including adding or removing members, will require a new application. A group citizen must be current in tier for at least one group tierbox in their name to maintain their good standing and CDS citizenship.

CDS Estate Banned avatars and their alts have no right to citizenship under any circumstances.

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Passed 17 March 2012

Updated and amended by the 32nd RA, March 2020

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CDSL 16-04 Citizenship membership publication for election purposes

Preamble

It is the law of the CDS that citizens must hold the title to their land for more than 28 days, and have tier paid in full to qualify to vote or to run for office. However, due to the complexities of the electoral calendar, the validation of that requirement is unnecessarily complicated.

The Citizen List shall be the certified list of CDS citizens eligible to run for office or vote in CDS Elections. The Citizen List will be created in the following manner:

1. At 12 noon SLT on the dates designated by the Scientific Council, the Chancellor or his or her designate, will generate both a list of tier payors and a Land Scanner list of parcel owners. They will then compare these two lists to determine that a given name appears on both lists and that that given name is current in at least one parcel tier payment. In cases where the parcel owner is a group, the Chancellor or his or her designate shall compare the list of tier payors to the registered citizens for that group. Each group registered citizen must be listed as the tier payor and current in tier payment for at least one qualifying group-owned parcel. The Chancellor or his or her designate will use these lists to create one list of the citizens who are qualified to run for office or vote, the Citizen List.

2. Within 24 hours the Chancellor will publish the List on the CDS Forums, by notecard to the SL group ‘CDS’, by notecard available at the Praetorium and any other public location the Chancellor may choose, and on the CDS web portal.

3. Only those citizens whose names appear on the published Citizen List may run for office or vote in the CDS elections.

4. Any citizen may challenge the inclusion or omission of an avatar on the Citizen List by petitioning the Scientific Council. Any such petition challenging the Citizen List must be received by the Dean of the SC no later than midnight SLT, 14 days after that Citizen List is published. The SC will make every effort to resolve such challenges within 7 days so that nominations and elections can proceed with an accurate Citizen List.

6. This bill applies to all elections and by-elections of Government members, representatives, or any official polling act called by any of the Government Branches (such as referenda or public consultation) that may have legislative power.

7. This bill does not revoke any other right of citizens, specifically NL 5-21, Citizen Involvement Act, or any public contest without the force of legislative power, such as proposing a new theme for an upcoming region to be publicly opened, redesigning the CDS official presence, or similar non-legislative acts.

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Passed 17 March 2012
Amended from the previous 21 days, May 6, 2014.
Amended Feb. 9, 2019
Amended Nov. 14, 2019
Amended by the 32nd RA, March 2020
Footnote: This bill revokes NL 5-17, Census Scheduling Act.

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CDSL 16-05 Constitutional Amendment on RA Size

Amend article 1 section 2 of the constitution so that instead of “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats”, it reads “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to five”.

Passed 12 May 2012

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CDSL 16-07 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act

Preamble

This Act clarifies the way in which the Representative Assembly will provide a vote of confidence on candidates to the Scientific Council. The intention is that the SC, candidates for the SC and the RA will work together cooperatively to interview candidate SC members at the earliest opportunity and affirm (or deny) the appointment.

NL 4-8 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act is repealed.

When a vacancy occurs on the SC, the Chair will announce that a vacancy is pending in the Forums and CDS group notices, and will specify a timeframe for external nominations to be submitted. Any citizen may put their own name forward for consideration, or may nominate any other citizen. The Chair and other members of the SC may also identify suitable nominees.

The SC will review all nominations to ensure that nominees meet the posted qualifications for SC membership.
All nominees with the required qualifications will be interviewed by the SC and will be accepted as an SC candidate by a simple majority vote.

In the event of multiple candidates, the candidate put forward to the RA will be selected by a blind draw. The Chair of the SC will provide the LRA with the name of the candidate within 24 hours of the vote or of the blind draw.

The LRA will invite the candidate to appear at the next meeting of the RA to be interviewed in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the Constitution, and to receive a vote of confidence from the RA. RA members are expected to consider any candidate based on their ability to perform the duties of an SC member, not on any personal friendship or enmity. RA members will give a brief rationale for their vote and the candidate will be considered confirmed by a simple majority.

If the candidate is unable to attend the next meeting of the RA he or she will provide the LRA with a selection of dates and times that they are available to attend a future RA meeting, and both the candidate and the LRA will make every effort to schedule the candidate’s appearance as soon as possible.

If the candidate fails to appear at the next RA meeting, or a meeting held on an agreed date and time within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved their candidacy, their candidacy will be considered withdrawn. If the RA, due to its own failure to be quorate or to hold a meeting on an agreed date and time to interview the candidate, fails to interview the candidate at a public RA meeting, within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved the candidacy, the candidate will be considered confirmed.

During the 60 day period, or until the RA vote of confidence is held, the candidate will attend SC meetings and will be permitted to contribute their opinions and expertise, but will not be permitted to vote.

Passed 26 May 2012

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CDSL 17-01 Citizen Notification Act

1. Posting information on the CDS forums and via in-world notice with attached notecard to the CDS group will be considered to be sufficient notice of changes which affect citizens.

2. This Act shall apply only to general, public actions, and not to private actions (such as covenant enforcement and foreclosure for not paying tier).

3. Laws take Effect as soon as they are Written to the Portal

4. Proposed budgets must be Posted at least 7 days before the RA may vote to approve

5. Proposed laws or amendments to laws must be Posted for a minimum of 7 days before a vote on the law may be taken

6. All other actions of the RA, including agendas that specify proposals and administrative discussion, must be Posted at least 24 hours before the scheduled meeting time

7. Definition: “Posting” is an in-world notice to the CDS group with attached notecard and a discussion topic in the relevant CDS Forum at forums.slcds.info

8. Definition: “Writing” is publishing to the Portal, cdsdemocracy.org under Code of Laws

Passed 30 June 2012, amended 4 August 2012, amended and clarified April 15, 2019

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CDSL 20-01 Resignation of Elected Members of Government Act

Preamble: To ensure that it is clear when an elected government official has resigned and the process to replace him or her must begin. To also provide a record of such resignation, and provide a check and balance to ensure that resignations are acted on.

An elected member of government who wishes to resign will do so by submitting a notecard to the LRA and to the Dean of the SC indicating that he or she is resigning; he or she will also post a notice of their resignation in the relevant discussion Forum of his or her arm of government:
-Chancellor in the Executive Branch Announcements Forum
-RA member in the Representative Assembly Discussion Forum

The LRA will immediately post a notice of the resignation in the RA Announcements Forum and by in-world notice in the C.D.S. group and request that the process for replacement begin.
If the LRA chooses to resign, he or she will do so by notecard to the Dean of the SC, who will immediately post a notice of the resignation in the SC Announcements Forum and by inworld notice to the C.D.S. group, and begin the process for replacement.

If the Dean of the SC has received a notecard of resignation and the individual resigning has posted their resignation in the designated Forum, the Dean of the SC will proceed with the process of replacement, even in the absence of a notice or request from the LRA.

Passed by the 20th RA, May 6, 2014

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CDSL 20-02 By-Election Procedures Act

Preamble:

The laws of the CDS do not provide a clear set of directions for the SC to use in scheduling by-elections. This act is intended to provide a clear procedure to use in scheduling by-elections, that complies with CDSL 16-04 Citizenship membership publication for election purposes, CDSL 13-09 Campaigning Act, CDSL 13-04 Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act, CDSL 13-05 Chancellor Election Act and the Constitution.

Section 1 – Vacancies from the RA or Chancellorship:

Where a vacancy occurs on or before April 1st or October 1st, and the regular elections for the sitting RA and Chancellor had excess candidates who did not attain a seat, the regular election software will be run again using the data from the regular election, to establish the order in which the unsuccessful candidates would have been elected, had there been additional seats on RA available or multiple positions for Chancellor. The Dean of the SC will ask such candidates, in order, if they wish to fill the vacant RA seat or Chancellorship. Once a candidate accepts, the Dean will publish the results and announce the name of the candidate who has accepted. That candidate will be sworn into office as soon as possible.

Where there were no unsuccessful candidates in the regular election, or where no qualified candidate accepts the seat or Chancellorship, a by-election will be held as per Section 2.

Section 2: Schedule for By-elections:
To ensure a current Citizen List is in place in the event of a by-election, a census will be taken on the last Friday of July, August, January and February and will be used to create a Citizen List, using the procedures legislated in CDSL 16-04 Citizenship membership publication for election purposes.This Citizen List shall be posted in the Forums, on the portal, and inworld by the Chancellor,(or in the event of a Chancellor vacancy, the Dean of the SC) with information on how to challenge inclusion or exclusion from the list . Any citizen may challenge inclusions or exclusions within 14 days of publication, by notecard to the Dean of the SC. Where no challenges have been received, or once any challenges have been resolved, the Citizen List will be declared accurate and official.

If a vacancy occurs on or before March 31st, or on or before September 30th, the most recent Citizen List shall be used to establish those who qualify to stand for election or to vote.

The SC shall meet and create a schedule for the by-election, ensuring that all of the following timeframes are observed:

The Dean of the SC will open new applications on the day notice was officially published in the Forums and close applications after a week.
The Dean of the SC will declare the Citizen List to be official once the deadline for challenges has passed, and when any challenges have been resolved.
Only those citizens whose names appear on the official Citizen List may run for office or vote in the by- election.
The Dean of the SC will ensure that all candidates are listed on the Citizen List and will publish an official list of candidates to the Forums and inworld.
The campaigning period may begin at noon SLT on the Saturday following the publication of the official candidate list, but not before noon SLT on the 22nd day following the date the census was conducted.
The polls for by-election may open at noon SLT the following Saturday, but not before the 29th day following the date the census was conducted, and will remain open for 168 hours. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the SC has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.

Section 3: Vacancies During the Last Third of a Term:

Where a vacancy occurs after April 1st or October 1st no by-election will be held and the seat or Chancellorship will remain vacant until the next regular elections.

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Enacted 10 May 2014
Modified by the 31st RA, October, 2019

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CDSL 21-03 Government Official Citizenship Act

All elected members of gov’t, and members of the SC, and appointed members of the Executive and Civil Service shall maintain their citizenship by owning a parcel of land and keeping tier on that parcel current. In extenuating circumstances, a provisional citizenship of less than seven days is permissible. Provisional citizenship of more than seven days will result in removal from office.

Enacted 26 October 2014

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CDSL 21-04 The Chancellor Term Constitutional Amendment

Amend the Constitution, Article II, Section 5.2 to read: Chancellor terms begin on June 1 and December 1, concurrent with the term of the RA. In the event of a by-election or vacancy caused by a resignation, the Chancellor takes office immediately upon election.

Enacted 26 October 2014

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CDSL 21-05 Tier Collection and Land Reclamation Act

Part One: Tier Collection

Since 2011, CDS has used scripted rental systems to collect tier.

When a person first purchases a CDS land parcel, they will receive the first 30 days of tier on that parcel which will be given by an Estate Manager. Following the first month of ownership, citizens pay tier via the Tier Payment Unit assigned to their parcel. They have the option to pay for one or many months at a time. Citizens must pay tier – via the tier collection unit– on a parcel that lists them as the owner in the land tool and have it in good standing to maintain citizenship.
A landowner may request a refund from an Estate Manager when selling or abandoning a parcel.
The Executive shall employ the following procedures for tier collection, reclaiming parcels under ordinary circumstances and clearing (resetting) the tier collection units.
Parcel abandoned from the land tool – Executive clears the tier collection. A landowner may request a refund from an Estate Manager when selling or abandoning a parcel. The parcel is reset for sale.
The Tier Collection Units shall be set to use the notice functions that alert landowners of the expiration of their tier in advance of due date, and the days remaining until they are due. The unit also announces numbers of days overdue. Landowners are expected to be in world to receive such notices and/or have provided LL with an email address allowing them to receive IMs while offline. Landowners are expected to set preferences to receive IMs when off line. Landowners who do not make provision to receive IMs in email, nor provide an email to the Executive, are still required to pay tier in a timely manner. Landowners who disable the reminder notices are expected to track when payments are due themselves and keep their tier up to date.
The Chancellor is encouraged [to] maintain a list of citizens with the email addresses voluntarily provided by citizens on a no-modify notecard with an explicit request to notify them by the provided email address. “<date>: To the Chancellor: please use the following email address if you need to contact me about tier.”
Upon leaving office, the outgoing Chancellor will transfer that list to the incoming Chancellor.
The Estate Owner should include the following reclamation language in the CDS Covenant land tool: “The right to vote and stand for election is reserved for citizens in good standing, i.e. are current with tier.

Part Two: (Timing) When Tier Expires

Beginning three days before tier expires, the tier collection unit is supposed to begin sending IMs to the parcel owner.
Within 7 days of being in arrears:
– The remaining time shows up on the tier collection system website, available to all Rental Managers.
– The Executive notifies citizens (via IM, notecard, email) of impending land reclamation at 14 days of delinquency and loss of voting rights once tier expires. Refer to CDSL 16-03, Item 2 regarding potential loss of voting rights.
Once tier runs out:
– Tier collection unit continues to send IMs until the object is reset, unless the notices have been disabled by the citizen.
– The Executive notifies citizens (via IM, notecard, email) to the (now probationary) citizen.
– The 14 day time period begins in which the citizen can reclaim their parcel by paying all owed amounts. (Notification by IM, notecard and email – or IM when the citizen is not logged in.)
– The Executive sends a final notice to errant landowner notifying them when the land will be reclaimed and their items returned.
In addition to the census, CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government. The Treasurer creates the list, with provisional citizens noted at the bottom. The Executive posts it to the Forum using the subject line “Census, (month, day, year).” Treasurer adds the lists to the Praetorium census dispenser. Additionally, the Executive posts a notice to CDS group, announcing the publication of the list and it’s availability via the Forum or the Census Dispenser at the Praetorium
During times of elections or by-elections the executive shall inform the scientific council about citizens who are on the census lists but have lost their citizenship afterwards due to giving up their last parcel or having gotten into arrear with tier payments.
At fourteen days overdue, if the landowner has failed to pay the full amount outstanding and unless absent due to a declaration of ‘special circumstances.’ then the Executive can reclaim the parcel. Objects on the parcel can be returned to the landowner and the parcels set for sale unless there are plans to temporarily take it off the market to redevelop.

Part Three: Private Sales

For parcel sales to be complete, the new buyer’s name must appear both in the Land and Tier Collection Unit. If the seller neglects to clear their name from the Tier Collection Unit, the executive clears the seller’s name so the new parcel owner can pay tier. If purchased through a private land sale, the purchaser does not receive 30 days of tier.

Part Four: Reclamation – Special Circumstances

From time to time, real life circumstances – either personal or technical – prevent a citizen from keeping current with tier (coming in-world and paying). On the ‘in-world’ side, Tier Collection Units sometime fail to send proper notification; IMs are sometimes capped per LL and may prevent a citizen from receiving email. We refer to these as ‘special circumstances.’
In the event of special circumstances either before or after reclamation – where the Citizen does not intend to let tier lapse – the Citizen, members of a group to which the parcel is assigned, friends of the citizen, the community at large, and the Executive might:
– offer to pay tier (parcel owner or partner of)
– contact the parcel owner
– notify the Executive of special circumstances
– notify the community of special circumstances and call for help
– petition the SC for relief
Citizens whose circumstances may require it can recruit someone to cover their tier. Note, tier payments made by someone other than the landowner does not confer citizenship. Repeated payment by someone other than the landowner can result in status change to ‘provisional’ and put voting rights in jeopardy.

This law repeals and replaces CDSL 13-03, any provisions of prior CDS laws (including CDSL 13-03) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

Enacted 26 October 2014
Changes and amendments made to CDSL 21-05 passed by the RA on August13, 2018

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CDSL 22-01 Omnibus New Region Expansion Act

This bill provides a framework for the planning, development, purchase, promotion and building of new regions. It replaces NL 8-2 and NL 8-4.

Phase I: PREPARATION
1. The RA will send a request to the Executive for a new Region
2. The Executive will consult with the LUC who will create a proposal to include:
a. Region theme in keeping with Master Plan
b. Location in relation to existing Regions in keeping with Master Plan
c. Covenant
d. Number and size range of plots
e. Tier rate per plot, as identified by the Executive
f. Breakdown of income based on occupancy of private parcels to include ‘break even’ point, as identified by the Executive
g. Prim count for Region (single, double, triple, etc)
h. Zoning designation and balance between public, private and commercial land
i. Any proposed public builds e.g. the amphitheatre
j. Any other infrastructure that will impact the community as a whole (connecting roadways, waterways, bridges, etc)
k. Parties responsible for sim design, terraforming and construction ‘on site’
l. Project update schedule
3. The Executive will review the plan to ensure that there are clearly defined compliance points
a. The Executive will be responsible for enforcing deadlines
b. The Executive will be authorizing payments due as services are rendered
c. The Executive will be securing intellectual property agreements where required
d. The plan will be returned to the LUC after review for a final ‘sign off’
4. The plan will be presented to the RA for approval
a. If the plan is approved, the Executive will proceed to Phase II
b. If the plan is returned for revisions, the LUC and the executive will make any needed changes, revisions or corrections and resubmit to the RA
c. If the plan is approved by the RA, but the RA decides for whatever reason to delay moving to

Phase II (financial, etc) the RA shall give a date when the build may proceed.

Phase II: PURCHASE
1. Once the plan has been approved by the RA, the Executive will contact the Estate Owner to acquire a Region for building. The Estate Owner will coordinate with the LUC and the Executive on having the Region placed in the approved location.

Phase III: BUILDING & PROMOTION
1. Oversight of construction
a. Project management shall be through the LUC with input from the Executive
b. Regular progress reports shall be delivered to the RA for review
2. The designated build team will begin to work on the Region, to include, but not limited to:
a. Terraforming
b. Street and parcel layout
c. Building or purchasing public or private buildings as needed
3. Promotion of the new Region
a. The Executive will promote the new Region and offer reservations for advance purchase of parcels once the final construction has been approved

Phase IV: ESTABLISHMENT
1. The Executive and LUC shall perform a final inspection of the Region once work is completed
a. Any needed changes will be performed by the build team within the timeframe given by the inspector.
b. Any disputes will be addressed in good faith and resolved by the Executive and the LUC
2. Once the new Region is completed and in place, the Executive shall complete all advance purchases of parcels, set remaining parcels for sale and announce that the region is ready for occupancy.

Private Development

When a private individual wants to develop a Region for inclusion into CDS, the process will not differ from the rules laid out in this act, with the following exception.

The private builder shall contact the Executive and submit a proposal for the new Region, which shall include and be in compliance with the guidelines laid out in Phase 1, part 2 of this act. If the LUC and the Executive agree with the proposal, it shall then be sent to the RA for approval in the same manner as explained previously. The private builder shall follow the steps in Phase 3, and on completion and approval of the Region, shall sell the Region to the Estate Owner for an amount approved by the RA. The Estate Owner will then place the Region in the approved location as designated by the LUC and the Executive. The builder will relinquish all rights to the Region at the time of transfer.

Phase I: PREPARATION
1. The private developer will contact the Executive with a proposal for a new Region. The plan will include:
a. Estimated cost of the developed region, payable by the CDS, upon completion and delivery of the region
b. Region theme in keeping with Master Plan
c. Location in relation to existing Regions in keeping with Master Plan
d. Covenant
e. Number and size range of plots
f. Projected Tier rate per plot, as identified by the Executive
g. Projected income based on occupancy of private parcels to include ‘break even’ point as identified by the Executive
h. Prim count for Region (single, double, triple, etc)
i. Zoning designation and balance between public, private and commercial land
j. Any proposed public builds e.g. the amphitheatre
k. Any other infrastructure that will impact the community as a whole (connecting roadways, waterways, bridges, etc)
l. Parties responsible for sim design, terraforming and construction ‘on site’
m. Project update schedule
2. The Executive will review the plan to ensure compliance
a. The Executive will identify break-even price per sq metre for land sales in the region
b. The Executive will be responsible for enforcing deadlines
c. The Executive will handle requests for payment due for services rendered
d. The Executive will prepare for any intellectual property issues based on the plan
e. The plan will be sent to the LUC after review for ‘sign off’
3. The plan will be presented to the RA for approval
a. If the plan is approved, the developer will proceed to Phase II
b. If the plan is returned for revisions, the developer will make any needed changes,
revisions or corrections and resubmit to the RA
c. If the plan is approved by the RA, but the RA decides for whatever reason to delay moving to Phase II (financial, etc) the RA shall give a date when the build may proceed.
d. the RA will authorize expenditure of the project cost identified by the developer, as the purchase price of the region

Phase II: BUILDING & PROMOTION
1. Oversight of construction
a. Regular progress reports shall be delivered to the Executive for reports to RA for review
2. The private developer will begin to work on the Region, to include, but not limited to:
a. Terraforming
b. Street and parcel layout
c. Building or purchasing public or private buildings as needed
4. Promotion of the new Region
a. The Executive will promote the new Region and offer reservations for advance purchase of parcels once the final construction has been approved

Phase III: TRANSFER & ESTABLISHMENT
1. The Executive and LUC shall perform a final inspection of the Region once work is completed
a. Any needed changes will be performed by the build team within the timeframe given by the inspector.
b. Any disputes will be handled by the Executive and the LUC
c. If the developer and the representatives of CDS are unable to resolve a dispute, it will go to the SC for a resolution.
2. The Private Developer shall sell the Region to the Estate Owner for the purchase price authorized by the RA.
a. The builder shall give CDS an unlimited, non-exclusive license with regard to all intellectual property used in the build, and shall warrant to the CDS that the developer has ownership, permission or other rights to use and transfer all intellectual property rights used in the build.
b. The builder will relinquish all rights to the Region at the time of transfer.
3. The Estate Owner will then place the Region in the approved location as designated by the LUC and the Executive.
4. Once the new Region is in place, the Executive shall complete any advance purchase agreements, set remaining parcels for sale, and announce that the region is ready for occupancy.

_______________________

Passed by the 22nd RA 3 Jan 2015

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CDSL 23-01 Licensing and Content Archivist Act

Rationale: to update the licensing and CA laws to reflect current licensing practises within SL and define the CA’s role and to establish who is authorized to have access to the avatars holding CDS content.

A. License Agreements and License Budget

1. Where content is given or sold to the CDS for use as part of its infrastructure, there will be a Licensing Agreement put in place, acknowledged as in-force by both the builder and the CDS Chancellor, acting on behalf of the CDS.

2. Where a content provider has an existing Licensing agreement, the Chancellor shall review that document and agree to it on behalf of the CDS, or may negotiate different wording acceptable to the content provider. Where no agreement is provided by the creator, the standard agreement appended here will be used.

3. Licensing Agreements will be published on the Forums and the Portal and a notecard of the Agreement will be held in the CA content avatar’s inventory.

4. The Chancellor will negotiate costs and any special terms of any Licensing Agreement.

5. Purchase costs of content must be identified in the budget for a term, or may be authorized by the RA as a special expenditure.

B. Content Archivist

The Content Archivist (also referred to as “CA”) is responsible for conserving and managing backup copies of public CDS content. Details of this are outlined in section C.

1. The CA is prohibited from holding any other elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver is granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC.

2. The CA shall be one of the Estate Managers of CDS, to ensure his or her ability to rez content as needed.

Appointment:

1.The CA is appointed by simple majority vote of the SC, with confirmation by a simple majority in the RA.

2. By a super majority vote in the RA, the SC may be directed to appoint a new CA. In such an event, the current CA shall transfer all CDS archived content to a new CA appointed by the SC.

3. The CA will sign a Content Archivist Agreement with the Chancellor, who represents the CDS. The Content Archivist Agreement in section C. defines the duties of the CA.

4. The CA will share the passwords of CA-dedicated avatars (as spelled out in section C.) with the Chancellor, the LRA and Dean of the SC.

5. An audit of all archived objects in the the CA avatar’s inventory shall be conducted by each new CA, in the form of snapshots taken of the inventory windows of the content holding avatars. The RA may request, once per term, that an audit be conducted by the CA or the Chancellor.

C. Content Archivist Agreement

The following agreement between the CA and the CDS must be signed by each new Content Archivist:

This agreement concerns the archival and handling of objects, scripts, textures, terrain files, animations and audio in Second Life, which will be referred to as the “Content”. This agreement begins on ___ and ends upon the resignation of the CA, or the appointment of a new Content Archivist by the SC.
You, the Content Archivist, agree to the following:

1. You agree to maintain three avatars named CDSArchie, CDSPrinter and CDSContent that will be used to store content objects that the CDS has purchased or licensed from each object’s owner or creator. Other than a small number of appearance-related items (clothes, hair, etc) you agree that the inventory of the archival avatars will be used only to store items that are given to you for storage during the duration of this agreement.

*CDSArchie will contain CDS property that is used on a regular basis for the general upkeep of the estate, or for special events. Any non-transferable items owned by the CDS should be held by CDSArchie.

*CDSPrinter holds the printer and will be available to all citizens for use in publishing books.

*CDSContent will hold all licensed content or purchased items related to sim construction and permanent infrastructure.

2. You agree to provide the password for these three accounts to the designated representatives of the CDS: Chancellor, LRA and Dean of the SC. You may change the password to protect the security of any archival avatar at any time, but if you do, you agree to immediately transmit the new password to these designated representatives. You understand that the designated representatives will have the right to audit the inventory and accounts of the archival avatar at any time.

3. When given Content items for storage under this agreement, you will ensure that a notecard of the Licensing Agreement for the content is placed in the CDS Content avatar’s inventory.

4. You understand that for all Content that is given to you under this agreement, the license to display or use it has been granted to the CDS only, and you agree that you will not claim any rights or financial interest in that Content arising from this agreement.

5. You agree not to transfer any Content given to you for storage to other avatars under your control. You also agree not to give any of the Content given to you for storage to any avatar controlled by any other person, except to authorized representatives of the CDS using the procedure described in this agreement.

6. You agree to provide any content requested by authorized CDS representatives within a reasonable timeframe.

7. You agree not to intentionally delete any Content given to you for storage under this agreement without a request from an authorized CDS representative. At the termination of this agreement you will provide access to and transfer all Content to an authorized CDS representative.

8. If requested in writing by an authorized CDS representative you agree to permanently delete all copies of specified and/or stored Content within two weeks of notification. You must delete all visible “rezzed” copies that are not in use by the CDS, as well as any copies from any inventory of any avatar you control.

D:PASSWORD ACCESS

CDSArchie: the CA will only provide the password to the designated representatives. The Chancellor may share that password with members of the Executive team or Estate Managers as he or she chooses, for the maintenance of the estate or for holding events.

CDSPrinter: the CA will share the password with any citizen requesting use of the printer. You may choose to change the password after each access.

CDSContent: the CA will only provide the password to the designated representatives. As much of the content of this avatar’s inventory is licensed and may be full permissions, the password to this avatar must be strictly controlled.

In an emergency, (eg: extended absence of the Chancellor and content must be accessible) the Dean of the SC may authorize you to provide a password to additional avatars.

When the Chancellor provides a password for CDSArchie to staff or EMs, he or she will notify the CA of those given access.

Standard licensing agreement:

License is given to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS), by (insert creator name) to use the product (insert product name)with the following limitations:

1.The product is strictly for use in the virtual world of Second Life, within the estate of CDS, or in other land locations temporarily or permanently controlled by the CDS. Exports and uploads to all other grids are strictly prohibited, unless an additional license for a specific grid is issued.

2. This product may not be resold, given away, or otherwise distributed to avatars other than citizens of the CDS under any circumstance.

3.This product is provided with the following permissions:

(insert permissions)

All copies of this product rezzed or distributed to citizens of the CDS shall have the following permissions set:

(insert permissions, or specify ‘no restriction on permissions’)

Signed by:

________________ Chancellor, on behalf of the CDS

________________ Creator of product

Passed by the 23rd RA, August 1, 2015

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CDSL 23-02 Defense of the Republic Act

Preamble
Estate owners in Second Life have tools available to them to defend their property against those who would do them harm. In the CDS we allocate those powers to Government officials and responsible citizens to protect the Estate and our citizens. We specify oversight of these powers to prevent abuse.

Definition
Griefing is defined here as behaviour intended to harass others or to damage the estate. According to Linden Lab, “… harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.” Griefing includes but is not limited to harassing avatars for innate discriminable characteristics, including but not limited to: race, gender or sex, religion, ethnicity or nationality, sexual orientation, age, and class; bullying or threatening behaviour; deleting or defacing public or private property in the CDS; disrupting events; combat with unwilling parties; and attempts to crash the estate.

Powers
Members of the Representative Assembly, the Scientific Council and the Chancellor, Estate Managers and other citizens temporarily empowered by these bodies may eject and ban avatars from the CDS if they are actively griefing the estate or communicate a credible threat to grief the estate by any other means (ie Social Media posts, etc).

Banning Offenses, Definition and Processes
Any of the following actions will result in an avatar being banned from the CDS estate and it’s web-based extensions:
* Violating Linden Lab’s Terms of Service;
* Harassing avatars with aggressive or hateful language via main text chat or open voice chat, in CDS group or on the Forums;
* Caging, or otherwise trapping, avatars;
* Dropping excessive numbers of objects, large objects, and/or self replicating objects with the purpose of crashing the region or estate;
* Running scripts to either crash the sim or to harass avatars;
* “Physically” attacking avatars, e.g. pushing them, freezing them, moving them or orbiting them;
* Engaging in non consensual roleplay or combat with avatars;
* Engaging in any pattern of activity that the Chancellor, or any citizen authorized by the Powers section of this act, deems — and can document — to be an attack on CDS or its citizens.
Any avatar banned from the Estate shall have posting privileges on the CDS Forums removed for as long as the ban is in effect. Likewise, any banned avatar shall be removed from any virtual world CDS group of which they are a member. This ban shall extend to all offices, lands, outposts, franchulates and embassies of the CDS. If on review the citizenship of a banned citizen is restored, then all other privileges and access will be restored.

People reprimanded on the forum, or even removed from the forum, are not as a consequence banned from the Estate.

Process
1. An event triggers ejection, temporary banning (to prevent continuation), or documented request for banning to the SC.
2. Documentation consists of a no-modify notecard containing the banned avatar’s account name, the time, date and location of the offense, the nature of the offense (which may include images), the name of the person submitting the complaint and names of avatars witnessing or on the receiving end of these offenses. The Chancellor shall recommend the duration of the ban.
3. The Scientific Council will review Estate bans within 28 days of the ban taking effect.
4. Length of time for non-citizen bans are at the discretion of the Chancellor.
5. Banning of citizens. Citizenship is tied to parcel ownership and parcels include inventory.
A citizen against whom action is being taken, shall be contacted by the Chancellor (IM and notecard, email if available.)
The Chancellor shall provide the citizen with a copy of the no-modify notecard provided to the Scientific Council.
Until the Scientific Council acts on the recommendation to ban, the citizen’s inventory and parcel will be undisturbed.
Once the Scientific Council acts, and if they uphold the ban, then the Chancellor (or a representative) shall offer — by IM and notecard, email where available — to escort the citizen to their parcel to take a refund on outstanding tier and collect their inventory.
The banned citizen can request an escort to collect tier refund and inventory retrieval.

6. Any avatar banned from the Estate shall have the right of appeal to the Scientific Council. Responding within 28 days, the Scientific Council can support, rescind or amend the ban and may set a time-limit for review at a future Scientific Council meeting.

7. When petitioned, the Scientific Council is empowered to ban and thereby deny citizenship to a non-citizen if by past documented behavior, they have demonstrated that they — the non-citizen — will not abide by the Constitution or laws of the Estate.

Oversight
Bans can be overturned either by the Scientific Council or by a 2/3 majority vote in the Representative Assembly.

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CDSL 23-03 Social Media Act

Social Media Administration Act

There have been many new internet applications designed and put to use since the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS)’ inception. These applications are designed to make communication faster, simpler, and easier for the users or subscribers.
This Bill is to address management of such new or existing applications; this Bill does not apply to the CDS Website or the CDS Forums, which are covered by separate legislation.

Definitions:

Social media: Broadly defined as computer mediated tools that allow people to create, share or exchange information, ideas, and pictures/videos in virtual communities and networks.

Social media sites: CDS Facebook Page, Google+, Twitter, Flickr, YouTube, CDS Wiki, and any other unnamed existing or future internet applications that incorporate ‘Confederation of Democratic Simulators’ or ‘CDS’ in their name, created with the intention of promoting the CDS.

Administration

All social media applications created for use by the CDS, and using the term ‘CDS’ or ‘Confederation of Democratic Simulators’ are administered by the Chancellor and his or her designated PIO. The Chancellor may authorize citizens to administer specific types of social media,where their skills and interests make this practical or desirable. Any citizen authorized in this way is considered to be acting as a member of the Executive team, under the direction of the Chancellor.

Where social media accounts are secured by only a password, the outgoing Chancellor will provide the incoming Chancellor with a list of all current accounts and passwords. The incoming Chancellor will change the passwords, and inform the Dean of the SC and the LRA of the new passwords. The Dean and LRA hold these passwords as a protection against loss of the account; they will not use these passwords to access and use social media accounts unless authorized by the Chancellor.

Where social media accounts have various levels of access, along with or in place of a password, the outgoing Chancellor will ensure that the incoming Chancellor is given the highest level of access. The Dean of the SC and the LRA will also be given the highest possible access. The Dean and LRA have this access as a protection against loss of the account; they will not use these passwords to access and use social media accounts unless authorized by the Chancellor.

If the Chancellor has given no notice of an extended absence, and the Dean of the SC or the LRA are unable to contact the Chancellor for a period of 21 days or longer, or resigns unexpectedly, the Dean of the SC will secure all accounts by changing passwords and access as necessary, and issuing the new access information to the LRA and any other authorized avatars.

Content
Only the Chancellor, his or her designated PIO and any other members of the Executive team authorized by the Chancellor, will post to social media as the ‘owner’, ‘ CDS ‘, or whatever other username, login name, or account name is displayed by the social media application.

Where additional levels of administrative access are possible (e.g. Facebook page Editor or other non-owner site management roles), the Chancellor may give this level of access to citizens at his or her discretion.

All citizens will be permitted to post, reply, or participate in whatever form of interaction allowed by each social media application, using their own personal accounts.

All content posted to any form of social media must conform to LL ToS; all Laws and the Constitution of the CDS; and may not contain pornographic material or inflammatory or libelous speech directed at any identifiable person or group. Any content posted that does not comply with these rules will be removed and the poster’s ability to participate on social media applications may be temporarily suspended. Any removal of ability to participate on social media applications will be reported to the Dean of the SC; the SC will review any such removal at their next regular meeting and uphold the suspension or reinstate the posting privileges.

__________________________________

Adopted by the 23rd RA, October 3, 2015

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CDSL 23-04 Forum Act

Preamble
The original CDS forums were provided and managed by Linden Lab. As a result, no law addressing Forum ownership or administration has ever been passed.

The open areas of the forums have traditionally been a place where citizens and non-citizens alike have been given free access to discuss any topic, subject only to the moderation rules and guidelines set down by the Scientific Council.

The Forums also contain specific areas that are restricted for use by individual branches of government, or by officially sanctioned groups within CDS. These areas are open to view but are restricted to post by the specific branch or group that the area belongs to. These areas of the Forums provide documentation of the activities and discussions of the RA, the SC and the Chancellor’s office, through transcripts, Minutes and Discussion Forums for each arm of government.

Technical Management of the CDS Forums:

An Administrator of the Forums will be appointed by a simple majority of the SC. The Administrator will agree to maintain the technical aspects of the Forums and to follow all requirements as identified in this law. The Administrator does not control content or provide moderation of any area of the Forums. The Administrator is a civil servant, acting on the direction of the Dean of the SC.

The Administrator may be removed for failure to perform the duties of the position, or may be replaced without cause, by the following process:

The Chancellor, or a simple majority of the RA, may request that a new Administrator be appointed. Such a replacement will occur if the members of the SC, by super majority vote, agree to such replacement. The Dean or any member of the SC may also request removal of the Administrator. A super majority vote of the SC is necessary for removal to occur.

The current Administrator will be given 3 months notice of the replacement. It is expected that the 3 month period will be used to ensure a smooth transition to the new Administrator.
In the event that an Administrator is removed for failure to perform the duties of the position, the replacement may be immediate.

The Administrator of the CDS Forums will:

ensure required payment is made to maintain service of the Forums website
present each incoming Chancellor with a notecard identifying costs for the coming term, for inclusion in the budget
give Administrator access to the Dean of the SC and any other SC members designated by the Dean
create monthly backups of the Forums and any related databases and ensure that the Dean of the SC is informed of how to create and store such backups
manage, in consultation with the Dean of the SC, all technical aspects of the webpage
agree to give 2 months notice if he or she intends to resign
agree to transfer control of the domain, servers, passwords, and all other necessary information to his or her successor
not be permitted to hold the position of Website Administrator, while acting as Forum Administrator

The Chancellor of the CDS will identify a location for digital storage of database and Website backups. The Dean of the SC will ensure that the monthly backups are copied to this location. The Chancellor will ensure that the Dean of the SC and the LRA have any relevant passwords or access levels required to retrieve these backups if needed.

Control of Content

The Dean of the SC, or any designated member of the SC, will enable registration for anyone requesting registration and who agrees to follow the Terms of Use

The Terms of Use for the Forums include compliance with the Forum Rules and Guidelines published by the SC. All registered members posting to the Forums are responsible for the content of their posts.

Moderation of content in the Forums, based on the Forum Rules and Guidelines, is provided by members of the SC; the Dean of the SC, with a simple majority vote of the members, may also appoint additional moderators.

The ability to read the contents of the Forums will be open to all members of the public.
The ability to post to the Forums is restricted to registered members.

Each arm of government will have an Announcement Forum and a Discussion Forum. Posting to these forums is restricted to designated members of that arm of government, during their term of office.

At his or her discretion, the Dean may create additional Forums, restricted or unrestricted, for NGOs, working Commissions, special events etc.
At his or her discretion, the Dean may archive inactive or unused Forums.

__________________________________

Adopted by the 23rd RA, October 3, 2015

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CDSL 23-05 Website Act

Preamble:

The CDS Portal – referred to in the rest of this document as ‘the Website’ – is intended to be a ‘one-stop’ location for citizens and others to access information about the CDS and its community. Viewing of the Website is to be open to all; content of the Website is to be provided and controlled by members of government and private citizens, as described in this bill.

The website domain and the website itself, including all content on official pages of the Website, belong to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. The Website’s official web pages include, but are not limited to, documentation of the Constitution, Laws, history of the CDS, and current information regarding citizenship, land and other administrative information.

The Website’s unofficial pages provide a location for NGOs, community groups and private citizens to add information regarding community activity in the CDS through postings to a webpage; in addition, citizens can provide further information on their activities or community by providing links to personal blogs.

This Bill addresses the administration of the Website; responsibility for, and control of, content, and criteria for addition of private webpages or links.

This Law replaces all previous laws related to the ‘CDS Portal’.
NL 7-3 ( just to be clear)
(NL 4-26 Public Information Act
CDSL 15-04 CDS Web portal)

Technical Management of the Webpage:

An Administrator of the Website will be appointed with the agreement of the Chancellor and a simple majority of the RA. The Administrator will agree to maintain the technical aspects of the Website and to follow all requirements as identified in this law. The Administrator does not control content of any area of the Website. The Administrator is a civil servant, and is part of the Chancellor’s Administrative arm of government.

The Administrator may be removed for failure to perform the duties of the position, by the following process:

The Chancellor or a simple majority of the RA may request that a new Administrator be appointed. Such a replacement will occur if the Chancellor and a simple majority of the RA agree to such replacement. Any new appointment to Administrator of the website will be a qualified website developer with the skills necessary* to make the transition and maintain the site as per this law indicates.

*Skills necessary:

FTP to and from web server: setting up the website and monthly backup of all files – this takes about 2 hours on a good bandwidth
phpMyAdmin on the database server: setting up the WordPress database and monthly backup of same.
– copying these backup files to an online archive.
HTML and CSS to clean up text on some pages: on a regular basis to improve text layout when needed
installing new WordPress plugins, widgets, themes, adding new pages, sub-pages to the navigation, updating the WordPress: on a regular basis
using the FAQ plugin: create new FAQ category and FAQ page, inserting the code for these in the text
optional but desirable: creating a WordPress theme from scratch
resizing graphics
creating a photo gallery, inserting into the page
creating new users/passwords

The current Administrator will be given 3 months notice of the replacement. It is expected that the 3 month period will be used to ensure a smooth transition to the new Administrator. In the event that an Administrator is removed for failure to perform the duties of the position, the replacement may be immediate.

The Administrator of the Webpage will:

ensure required payment is made to maintain service of the Website
present each incoming Chancellor with a notecard identifying costs for the coming term, for inclusion in the budget
identify, with the Chancellor’s agreement, two assistants to ensure that technical support is always available. Assistants may be removed by agreement of the Administrator and the Chancellor. Where such agreement cannot be reached, a simple majority vote of the RA will be used to affirm or replace the assistant in question.
create monthly backups of the Website and its database/s and ensure that the Chancellor and the Dean of the SC have access to such backups through password or administrative access.
manage all technical aspects of the webpage
provide usernames and passwords to all government members and citizens authorized to have access
assign roles to government members and citizens authorized to have access, coinciding with their access requirements
maintain the appearance, themes, plugins, widgets and picture galleries of the homepage as directed by the Chancellor and the RA.
create webpages or insert links for other arms of government, NGOs and citizens as described in this Law
agree to give 2 months notice if he or she intends to resign
agree to transfer control of the domain, servers, passwords, and all other necessary information to his or her successor
not be permitted to hold the position of Forum Administrator, while acting as Website Administrator

The Chancellor of the CDS will identify a location for digital storage of database and Website backups and will ensure that the monthly backups are copied to this location. The Chancellor will ensure that the Dean of the SC and the LRA have any relevant passwords or access levels required to retrieve these backups if needed.

Control of Content:

Each arm of government will control the content of the official webpages related to their work. No user will remove content related to the Laws, Constitution or History of the CDS without the agreement of the Chancellor and a simple majority of the RA.

NGOs and private citizens will control content of their own webpages or links.

All content of official and unofficial web pages must conform to LL ToS; all Laws and the Constitution of the CDS; and may not contain pornographic material or inflammatory or libelous speech directed at any identifiable person or group.

The Administrator, when authorized by the Chancellor, will remove any unofficial web pages that do not meet these content rules.

The Administrator will ensure that it is clear that CDS is not responsible for the content of links outside of the Website; however, where such links are found to contain material that does not conform to these rules, the Administrator will notify the Chancellor and remove said links from the website.

Chancellor:

The Chancellor, or his designated PIO, will control the content of the homepage and all webpages related to land, events and promotion of the CDS. The Chancellor will consult with the Administrator regarding the technical aspects of major changes to the website to ensure that such changes are technically possible and within reason for cost or work involved.

LRA:

The LRA, or designated members of the RA, control the RA webpage, the RA journal page, the Code of Law page, and any webpages related to the history or to the long term plans of the CDS. The LRA or RA appointed person will add new laws and move repealed and archaic laws as necessary to maintain the current laws.

SC:
The Dean of the SC, or a designated member of the SC, will control the SC webpage, the SC journal page and any other web pages related to their duties.

The Dean of the SC, or a citizen appointed by a super-majority vote of the SC, will control the content of the Constitution webpage. The Dean, or the appointed person, will add amendments to the Constitution once they have been ratified by the SC.

NGOs and Community Groups:

NGOs and community groups may request web pages to provide information about specific activities of the group e,g: The Guild, MoCA. NGOs or community groups will designate who has control of the content of their webpages.

These web pages are considered unofficial but must still comply with the rules for content identified above.

Individual Citizens:

Citizens may request a webpage to provide information about their activities related to the CDS e.g. historians, artists, performers. These citizens will control content of the page they request. These webpages are considered unofficial but must still comply with the rules for content identified above.

Citizens may have links to personal or commercial blogs added to the Links provided on the website. The CDS is not responsible for the content at such links; however, they must still comply with the rules for content identified above.

________________________

Passed October 17, 2015

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CDSL 28-01 Region Divestment Act

Rationale:
In the Confederation of Democratic Sims, it is the responsibility of the CDS government to ensure that the estate is financially managed in a responsible manner with an overall goal of keeping CDS in the black.

1) Tenancy fluctuations and long term vacancies can negatively impact the financial health of the estate. This bill establishes parameters for selling a CDS region if it remains vacant, in the red and a financial liability.

If the CDS fails to generate more than 90% of its monthly tier expense for and a region fails to generate more than 75% of its monthly tier expense for more than three consecutive months, or the CDS as a whole fails to generate more than 90% of its monthly expenses for six consecutive months.

2) The Chancellor or anyone is to notify the RA for review to determine if it is in the best financial interests of the CDS to divest of a region.
If the decision is made to sell, the Chancellor will determine the sale price of the region based on the average market sale price for regions of that type at that time. The Chancellor must give 90 days notice to all CDS citizens of the intention to sell a region both on the CDS forum and in an in-world CDS group notice.

3) The Chancellor must give 90 days notice of the sale to all citizens of the region via notecard. In the case of group owned land, the Chancellor will provide notice via notecard to the group owner.
Citizen owners’ responsibilities to abandon land and how to collect refund of tier balance.

4) Citizens of the region being sold are responsible for abandoning their land and may subsequently notify the Executive (Chancellor or Estate Manager) to issue a refund of their tier balance from the tier meters before the date of the sale. Otherwise they will be expropriated and refunded on a certain deadline to be announced by the Chancellor.

5)Three days prior to the sale date, the Chancellor will announce his/her intentions to sell the sim in the CDS Group inworld and on the CDS forums.

6) On the scheduled date of sale, the Chancellor will clear the region completely of all objects before placing the region for sale.

7) The Chancellor can confer the responsibility of clearing the region on a CDS estate manager

8.) At the Chancellor’s direction, Rudeen must place the region up for sale in the For Sale By Owner group. The Chancellor is responsible for writing up the text for the sales notice and for giving it to Rudeen.

9) Money from the sale of the region shall remain in the general CDS account (Rudeen).

10) Neufriedstadt is excluded from this act. Given the history of the region and the significance to CDS, Neufreistadt will remain until it is no longer able to pay for itself or SL service ends.

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CDSL 31-1 MoCA Curator Appointment

The Museum of Modern Art (MoCA) located within the walls of Neufreistadt city is a part of the common lands of the CDS. As a part of CDS community-owned properties, the intent of this law is to allow for diversification in its curation and ensure that the MoCA remains a vibrant part of the life of the community.

1) The Representative Assembly will accept applications for a curator from any citizen in good standing and appoint 1 person for each appointment time period.
2) Appointments will be for a time period of 6 months: either August to January or February to July.
3) Applicants must provide a brief outline of their intended exhibitions.
4) Appointed curators are required to produce at least one new exhibition per term, to ensure that MoCA is and remains vibrant.
5) Appointed curators may decide to keep or remove any other existing artworks in place, and may decide upon the theme and application of their exhibits, which may be in the form of visual arts, SL or RL, or performing arts, or a mix
6) Curators must create appropriate signage for the displays.
7) Curators may appoint other CDS citizens to assist in any way they wish, as long as they keep to the rules.
8 ) A specific artifact not owned by anyone in the CDS who has permissions on it, and has historical-artistic value, must be left in place as is. This is the yellow-musical “Infra Assemblage” piece by Adam Ramona located on the roof.
9) Total land impact (li or ‘prim count’) must not exceed 665 on the museum parcel. The curator must keep within these limits without changing the building or the historical artifacts.
10) No artworks will be set for sale, and it is understood that the MoCA is not a place to market any arts or artists. Artists may be featured and celebrated.

Passed by the RA August 19, 2019

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CDSL 32-1 Election Bill (STV Quota)

The CDS Constitution specifies that the electoral system will use the Single Transferable Vote method to allocate seats to the Representative Assembly following an election. The CDS will use the ‘Droop quota’ to determine the minimum number of votes a candidate needs in order to be elected.

Droop quota is understood to mean: without the decimal part.

In the event that the number of declared candidates for the Representative Assembly is equal to the number of seats, the declared candidates shall be acclaimed into office without a campaign period or polling.

In a case where the number of candidates declared for the Representative Assembly is less than the number of seats, the Scientific Council may call for a by-election in an attempt to fill any available seat(s). Seats that remain open after one by-election shall remain vacant for the balance of the term.

_____________________

Passed by the 32nd Representative Assembly, May 2020

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CDSL 34-02 Transparent Region Development Act

Public spaces have to be developed in accordance with policy and changes need to be subject to public comment and review. The Intention of this law is to keep our citizens informed about changes in our regions and give them an opportunity to state their opinions. On the other hand the legislator does not want to add more bureaucracy to our community and make the work of the executive team unnecessarily difficult.

1) The Chancellor has the discretion to replace/upgrade/place individual trees, rocks, street-lights, and any other environmental decor and perform corrective and adaptive terraforming as they see fit without consultation, providing that they fit the theme and ambiance of the area and don’t interfere with any citizen’s enjoyment of their land.

2) Important structural elements to be changed: including public buildings, roads and pathways, forests and parks, large dramatic or important land formations must be posted to the forum for a period of no less than 10 days for public discussion. If there are objections to the plans then the work must be kept on hold until a concensus is found.

3) The Land Use Commission (LUC) reviews the regions on a regular basis and finds areas that need attention for upgrades or changes. If changes are small they may recommend them to the Chancellor directly. If important changes are being recommended (see item 2 above), then the LUC creates a proposal and presents it to the Chancellor and the Representative Assembly (RA) and posts to the forum for a minimum of 10 days for public comment. If the Chancellor agrees to the changes, the Chancellor assigns the work to a CDS Artisan Guild member, or a member of the Executive team.

The RA’s role is to ensure that the process is followed properly, to make comment on behalf of RA and citizen members and approve the proposals if there are no serious and reasonable objections.

Enacted 13 February 2021

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Repealed Code (25)

NL 3-9 US Dollar Accounting Act

Summary

Recognize that our liability, U, is fixed and that the exchange rate, R’, floats.

The city would update a “city exchange rate” automatically every month (without approval of the RA) set to GOM or LL Exchange plus 10%. This will lock in a fixed positive error rate (Equation (5)).
The city will do accounting in both US$ and L$ to satisfy those who want constant numbers, U, and those who want floating numbers, L’.

Details

In our current accounting system the price of land-use fees in US$, U, is transformed to L$, L, using a fixed exchange rate, R.

L = R U ……..(1)

When we collect payments, the land-use fees in L$, L, are then transformed to different US$, U’, via a different, changing exchange rate, R’.

U’ = L / R’ ……..(2)

In this case every value is fixed except the variables with a prime, namely the outgoing exchange rate, R’, and the resulting US$, U’. Because our fees are in US$, the error in collected fees is:

<tt> e = 100% * (U’ – U) / U = 100% * R/R’ – 1 ……..(3)

The fixed Nburg rate, R, was set to be 250 L$/US$ plus 10% or 275 L$/US$. The current rate, R’, is 300 L$/US$. Thus our shortfall in moving from U to U’ is:

e = 100% * 275/300 – 1 = -8.3% (variable)……..(4)

The proposed solution is to recognize that the only constant is the liability set by LL in US$, given by U. To do this we simply have to set the exchange rate in Equation (1), R, equal to the GOM rate plus 10%.

R = 1.1 R’

With this our error will be a constant

e = 100% * R/R’ – 1 = 100% 1.1/1 – 1 = 10%
(constant)……..(5)<

This amount would automatically floats without RA approval each month because the city recognizes that our liabilities in U are unchanging.

passed 2 October 2005

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NL 3-10 Construction Authority Act

Summary

The Guild shall be free to make modification to city structures on city land provided those modifications don’t significantly alter the layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim. Changes which affect the layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim should be discussed publicly by the Guild, submitted as a bill, and then voted upon by the RA.

Philosophy

The philosophy behind this law is that it will allow members of the Guild to make changes to city structures when the creative urge strikes them while avoiding the delay associated with seeking an RA approval. In return any large changes to the city layout, including moving, replacing, renaming, rezoning, etc. city buildings, streets, lots, etc. will be approved in advance by the RA. The goal is to strike a balance between supporting creativity and protecting the existing structure of the city.

passed 2 October 2005
superceded by NL 4-20 3 May 2006

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NL 4-2 Marketplatz Zoning Act

All land surrounding the Marketplatz which is not already privately owned, and not to include the Rathhaus, the Biergarten, and the Kirche, will be divided into parcels similar to the other City parcels of Neualtenburg, and sold.

The resulting new parcels, as well as existing privately owned parcels fronting on the Platz, are identified as a new zoning district, and that the deeds covering the proposed sales contain covenant terms which differ from the covenant terms of lots in other zoning districts, as explained below, with the Guild being responsible for the specific coveneants. If and when the current owner of one of the privately held platz parcels not covered by this bill sells his or her parcel, it will become part of the new zone.

One parcel will remain Gilde property, and function as a general store, where each Neualtenburg citizen may place one Guild-approved vendor.

This act specifically prohibits the creation of freestanding commercial kiosks on the platz proper.

passed 1 February 2006, amended 11 March 2006
Removed text in red
Added text in blue

Explanatory Notes

The MarketPlatz is potentially the commercial and cultural center of Neualtenburg. It is not only the location of the telehub, it is also the focal point of the architectural concept from which the City sprang. Our failure to use this potential has been a severe handicap to the success and growth of the City.

I maintain that what is needed around the MarketPlatz, in addition to the cultural monuments… the Rathaus and the Kirche, perhaps the view of the imposing Schloss, is a thriving environment of commercial and social activity. The Platz is the “Announcement Sign” of Neualtenburg. A visitor rezzing at the telehub receives their first impression, lasting impression, from the environment they see. It is utterly imperative for us to create the essence of Neufreistadt in that first impression.

And what is this symbolic “essence”? We have not talked about this much, except in the negative. E.g. we are not a mall, we are not Tringo, we are not dancing clubs or sex parlors.

We ARE society and commerce. We are society as a group of people engaged in substantive discussion about the system of own community.. (think, the plazas of coffee houses of Europe… the bars and debating establishments… Altenburg’s own “plateia” of tables and chairs for sitting and arguing…) . We have our classic biergarten, certainly a cultural monument in Nburg history.

And we ARE commerce. Commerce is what motivates individuals to think up ways to bring visitors to Nburg in the first place. Even the coffee shops will compete. Citizens, operating from their own property, in control of their own prims, their own money; these are the most energetic workers bringing both visitors and new residents to our City.

Some will fear that divesting these valuable properties, valuable in their “symbolic value” to the City at large, will cause the deterioration of these very values, as the values become subordinated to the self-oriented nature of an individual’s endeavors. However, if that “divestment” is framed in a clear covenant for the use of the land, I maintain that self-oriented endeavor is the very energy source which *will* bring the most visitors, the most new citizens, to our door.

The covenant has the following terms, in addition to those in the standard covenant (a new document will be prepared by which the deed-signer agrees to these terms).

The primary purpose of the parcel is commercial, either goods or services. The ground floor, at least, must be devoted to commercial purpose. The upstairs may be residential. The owner may apply to the Guild for free “rental” of the Platz area in front of their parcel for the purpose of moveable objects… tables, chairs, vendors. The Guild reserves the right to arrange such objects consistent with the free flow of traffic through the Platz; and removal of the objects for various Guild sponsored events (such as the regular Sunday flea market).
The owner is expected to devote substantial effort to the growth of their business at this location. We expect you to make money. A city approved vendor may be required so as to track the success of this. Some form of money or dwell tracking may be performed, and there may be a criteria permitting continuance. Should the owner fail to achieve a success commensurate with the goals of the City for its Platz, the City may exercise the right of eminent domain and “Reclaim” the parcel at fair cost.
The owner is required to take care to maintain the theme of Nburg. Because this location is the Platz, additional oversight will apply. A compliance committee of the Guild reserves the right to prohibit signage, objects, or goods for sale which it feels contrary to the intentions of the City with regard to the Platz, a decision which is appeal-able to the SC.

Only by a committed divestment of this valuable property to the proven energy resource of individual initiative can the City hope to achieve its goals for the MarketPlatz. The “marketplace” has proven over and over again in RL world history that it is the true driver of human accomplishment. With oversight guidance from those appointed to preserve the founding values of the Neualtenburg enterprise, this proposal can finally bring the flower to bloom.

Notes by Sudane Erato

Repealed Feb 9, 2019

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NL 4-8 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act

If the RA fails to act on an SC nomination within 30 days of the Scientific Council Dean’s communicating notice of the nomination to the Leader of the RA, the nominee is confirmed automatically.

Passed 8 February 2006

Repealed 26 May 2012 (and replaced with CDSL 16-07 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act

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NL 4-13 MoCA Franchise Agreement

FRANCHISE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE CITY OF NEUALTENBURG (THE CITY) AND THE INDEPENDENT SOCIETY FOR A MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART IN NEUALTENBURG (THE SOCIETY)

The City hereby leases the 976 sqm of land designated as “Neualtenburg MoCA” and the associated prims for the use by MoCA for a period of 6 months starting from the date of this agreement and subject to the belowmentioned conditions being met. The monthly lease corresponds to the land fee payment for a plot of this size.
In extension of this agreement it is understood that the Guild will lend the Society the building designed for the purpose of housing a Museum of Contemporary Art designed by Keltrien Baker to the Society at no further cost.
The City expects MoCA to maintain a level of activity proportionate to the resources available in order to attract visitors and artists and promote Neualtenburg as a cultural centre.
The City accepts that MoCA will need the freedom to determine its own fundraising scheme, which for example might involve limiting access to the property to paying visitors and/or benefactors of the MoCA.
MoCA maintains total artistic freedom to select the works to be represented in the exhibitions as long as the display of these does not interfere with the provisions of the covenant of the land as evaluated by the Guild.
The Guild will maintain general oversight with the operations of the MoCA. This entails monthly reviews of accounts compared to budget and audits on the implementation of action plans.
This agreement may be prolonged for an unspecified number of six month periods each of these extensions being subject to the approval of The Guild.
The City is not obliged to support MoCA financially in excess of the above. The City is however free to do so.

Repealed April 15, 2019

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NL 4-24 Defense of the Republic Act

Preamble
Estate owners in Second Life have tools available to them to defend their property against those who would do them harm. In Neualtenburg we allocate those powers to Government officials and responsible citizens to protect the sim and our citizens. We also allow for oversight of these powers to prevent abuse.

Definition
Griefing is defined here as behaviour designed to harrass others or to damage the sim. It includes inter alia harrassing avatars for racial, sexual or homophobic reasons; deleting or defacing public or private property in Neulatenburg; armed or unarmed combat with unwilling parties and attempts to crash the sim.

Powers
Members of the Representative Assembly, the Scientific Council and the Guild Master (and citizens temporarily empowered by these bodies) are empowered to ban avatars from Neualtenburg if they are griefing or make a recorded threat to grief.

The Scientific Council are empowered to deny citizenship to a non-citizen if they have cause to believe that the non-citizen will not abide by the Constitution, founding documents and laws of the City.

Oversight
Sim bans will be reviewed at the next Scientific Council meeting which must take place within 28 days. The Scientific Council can support, rescind or amend the ban and must set a time-limit for review by a future SC meeting.

Bars to citizenship must be time-limited and can be overturned by a 2/3 majority vote in the Representative Assembly.

Rationale:

I’ve made the changes as discussed in previous posts. The one difference is that I’ve added the potential for the RA, SC or Guildmaster to temporarily grant ban powers to other citizens. I thought this might be useful when we want to have ‘security’ at events without relying on a member of the government to be there and be prepared to eject people if need’s be.

(Author: Patroklus Murakami)
passed as amended 12 May 2006

repealed by the 23rd RA, Saturday Sept 5, 2015

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NL 4-26 Public Information Act

1. This act creates the office of City Public Information Officer (PIO) as follows:

Public Information Officer

Administers a wide range of public relations activities on a simwide basis in a centralized public information function. Work involves conceptualizing, developing, and implementing major media and advertising campaigns, marketing programs, and various special projects. Work is performed under general supervision of the Guildmaster.

ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:: * Researches, develops, writes, and coordinates a media campaign for the City;; * Coordinates public relations activities for the City;; * Oversees development and implement of a City Tourist Information Office;; * Works with businesses and merchants to develop and implement a Chamber of Commerce;; * Develops and coordinates the illustration and printing of publications;; * Prepares, reviews, and edits news conferences, releases, newsletters, publications, and scripts;; * Counsels elected and appointed City officials concerning public relations aspects of policies, practices, procedures, programs, and actions;; * Researches, writes, photographs as requested;; * Serves as a liaison between City officials, or organizations, departments, and specific groups;; * Researches and interprets attitudes, opinions, and perceptions of selected internal and external groups and reports that information to elected and appointed City officials;; * Performs other duties as assigned.

2. The PIO is appointed by the Guildmeister and is to be paid $L1000/month.

passed 6 June 2006

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NL 5-17 Census Scheduling Act

The number of seats in the RA shall be based upon the number of citizens as of the deadline for voting in the election that will elect that RA (per Article V).

Passed 16 December 2006

Modified 25 April 2010

Repealed 17 March 2012 (and replaced by CDSL 16-04 Citizenship membership publication for election purposes Act)

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NL 7-3 Web Portal Act

Web Portal Act

The CDS Website, Forums, Wiki, Colonia Nova Blog and any other
current or future web-based tools so designated or approved by the RA
shall be consolidated into a new CDS Web Portal.
The responsibility for administering and maintaining the CDS Web
Portal lies with the Executive Branch, and in particular with the CDS
Public Information Officer (“the PIO”). The Executive will appoint a
system administrator for the new site.
The new web portal will based on an open-source content management
system (such as Drupal or Plone) and will allow each branch of
government to determine the content of their section of the new site.
The RA hereby mandates the PIO to develop a coherent plan for
consolidating, rationalising, and connecting the CDS Web Portal and
all its individual elements -including a development plan, hosting
options, and a draft budget of initial and yearly costs.
The RA authorizes the PIO to enter into exploratory discussions
with the current legal owners of the various elements of the CDS Web
Portal regarding the transfer of the latter and of all rights related
thereto into CDS ownership.
The PIO shall prepare a report on this matter, including suggested
legislative proposals (if any) and submit it to the RA for
consideration no later than 1 September 2007.
In the absence of a PIO, the responsibility for taking this
forward rests with the Chancellor.
The RA shall consider the report within 2 weeks of receipt of the
report. It shall draft and vote on legislation on this matter no
later than one calendar month after receipt of the report and in no
case later than 1 October 2007

Passed 12 Aug 07

Bill repealed by the 23rd RA, October 17, 2015

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NL 7-6 Land Sale Reform Act

Proposal to alter the manner in which citizens may sell their land in the CDS.

Proposed: That the option be set on our Estate Settings to allow citizens to individually set their parcels for sale, and transact the sale directly and completely with the buyer, whether the buyer be a new citizen or an existing citizen.

Procedure for Land Reclamation

The CDS retains the right to reclaim ownership of land if the fee for land ownership is not paid. This right is subject to the following procedure and has the following effects:

1. After a land payment is overdue, but prior to reclamation by the CDS, the Estate Owner or his or her agent shall inform the landowner of the arrearage, the amount of the arrearage, and that the land reclamation process has begun. This notice shall be provided to initiate the reclamation process.

2. After one month, the land shall be reclaimed, but shall not be resold for an additional two months. The prior landowner shall again be notified of the reclamation and shall have an opportunity to pay the arrearage and take back the land. This notice shall be provided twice, first at the start of the two-month period and second at the end, one week prior to the CDS taking possession of the land.

3. Thereafter, following this three month period, the land may be resold by the CDS without restriction and without the prior owner having any right to take back the property or participate in the proceeds of the sale.

4. During the three-month period of reclamation, the landowner shall not lose citizenship, but shall be a “provisional citizen.” A provisional citizen shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS.

5. All notices under this act shall be by inworld IM, by gift of inworld notecard, and by private message on the CDS forum (if the landowner is a member of the forum). This notice process may be automated by the Estate Manager.

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NL 7-10 IP Licensing and Content Archivist Act

RATIONALE FOR THIS IP LICENSING AND CONTENT ARCHIVIST BILL

In the first half of 2006, because of a dispute, Ulrika Zugzwang removed a substantial number of key structures from Neufreistadt (such as the walls, gates, long bridge) that were considered part of the CDS. The CDS did not have backup copies nor a license to use backup copies.

Nearly all CDS key structures are owned by builders (e.g. the NFS Kirche, the Amphitheatre and two bridges in Alpine Meadow), and owners could potentially remove any structure from the CDS without notice. This could disrupt the CDS project. This bill aims to remedy this situation by:

Making the IP license agreement issued by the New Guild official and allowing the Chancellor to sign specific IP contracts on behalf of the CDS.
Establishing a new position, the Content Archivist, who will preserve backups of CDS infrastructure using a dedicated avatar.
Allocating a budget to be used by the Chancellor to provide reasonable compensation to CDS infrastructure builders who are not willing to accept a token payment of L$1 for their work.

IP LICENSING AND CONTENT ARCHIVIST BILL

A. License Agreements and License Budget

The RA ratifies the version of the IP license agreement as published by the New Guild in the CDS forum.
This and other RA-ratified template agreements will be kept on an official CDS website (such as a Wiki).
The Chancellor may sign RA-ratified versions of IP license agreements on behalf of the CDS under the conditions outlined in 4, 5 and 6.
The Chancellor may negotiate the terms of contracts but needs RA approval for any single structure more expensive than L$ 15,000, as well as for different contractual terms.
The total amount that the Chancellor can spend on content license acquisition shall be determined at the start of each term by the RA. The RA can also set extraordinary budgets for specific content.

B. Content Archivist

A new civil service position, the Content Archivist (also referred to as “CA”) is established. The CA is responsible for conserving and managing backup copies of public CDS content. Details of this are outlined in section C.

Limitations

The CA is prohibited from holding any other elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver is granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC.
The CA may not be in CDS land management groups.

Hiring and Firing

The CA is appointed by simple majority vote of the SC, with confirmation by a simple majority in the RA.
The CA may be removed and ordered at any time to by a simple majority in the RA to transfer all CDS archived content to a new CA.
The CA must sign a Content Archivist Agreement with the Chancellor, who represents the CDS. The Content Archivist Agreement in section C. defines the duties of the CA as well as the compensation for this job, in more detail.

Review

The CA will share the password of the CA-dedicated avatar (as spelled out in section C.) with the Chancellor and Dean of the SC.
Either the Chancellor or the Dean of the Scientific Counsel, when requested by the RA, must audit all archived objects in the the CA avatar’s inventory and provide that audit to the RA for review. The audit should be conducted according to the procedures outlined in section C

C. Content Archivist Agreement

The following agreement between the CA and the CDS must be signed by each new Content Archivist:

This agreement concerns the archival and handling of objects, scripts, textures, terrain files, animations and audio in Second Life, which will be referred to as the “Content”. This agreement begins on ___ and is open ended. The Content Archivist shall serve until they resign, or until the RA decides that job, responsibility and Content should be transferred to a new Content Archivist. In exchange for a monthly payment of $1000 linden dollar, you, the Content Archivist, agree to the following:

You agree to maintain an avatar named ___ (the archival avatar) that will be used to store content objects that the CDS has licensed from each object’s owner. Other than a small number of appearance-related items (clothes, hair, etc) you agree that the inventory of the archival avatar will be used only to store items that are given to you for storage during the duration of this agreement.
You agree to provide the password for the archival avatar’s account to two designated representatives of the CDS _ and _. You may change the password to protect the security of the archival avatar at any time, but if you do you agree to immediately transmit the new password to these designated representatives. You understand that the designated representatives will have the right to audit the inventory and accounts of the archival avatar at any time.
When given Content items for storage under this agreement, you agree to provide a (copyable, non-modifiable, transferable) note card receipt describing those Content items to the avatar who gave you the Content items and also to deposit a copy of the same note card receipt in the CDS records repository established for that purpose.
You understand that for all Content that is given to you under this agreement, the license to display or use it has been granted to the CDS only, and you agree that you will not claim any rights or financial interest in that Content arising from this agreement.
You agree not to transfer any Content given to you for storage to other avatars under your control. You agree also not to give any of the Content given to you for storage to any avatar controlled by any other person except to authorized representatives of the CDS using the procedure described in this agreement.
You agree to provide these materials (or copies of copyable materials) to the CDS or its representative with full permissions within two weeks of notification. You will transfer ownership (sell for $0 Lindens) to an authorized CDS representative any Content that has been given to you for storage. In return the recipient will give you a (copyable, non-modifiable, transferable), note card receipt listing the Content that has been received. The recipient will also deposit a copy of the note card in the CDS records repository established for that purpose.
You agree not to intentionally delete any Content given to you for storage under this agreement without a request from an authorized CDS representative. At the termination of this agreement will make your best effort to transfer all Content to an authorized CDS representative and will not intentionally delete any Content for six months.
If requested in writing by an authorized CDS representative you agree to permanently delete all copies of specified and/or stored Content within two weeks of notification. You must delete all visible “rezzed” copies that are not in use by the CDS, as well as any copies from any inventory of any avatar you control.

Chancellor, representing the CDS

Content Archivist

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NL 8-2 "In-Theme" Expansion Act

“In-theme” Expansion Enablement Bill

Rationale:

This bill sets out a method for “in-theme” expansion where sims are added according to a masterplan that defines the theme in advance so that a public contest for a new theme is not required. Each new sim added this way will meet specific needs decided by the RA (examples are the need for: more citizens; more income; larger plots; larger public areas with specific builds).

This is in addition to, not instead of, the way we have expanded up until now. There will still be new themes added to the CDS, full public involvement and the excitement of developing proposals for the public vote. This method is being proposed as supplementary method which streamlines the process of adding new sims so we can expand more quickly without compromising our reputation for quality.

In order to expand the territory of the CDS and enable new citizens to join us, this bill sets out a framework procedure for the development, purchase and building of new sims which expand existing themes.
The process of “in-theme” expansion involves four phases:
- Phase I: PREPARATION
  In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.The New Guild would produce a draft plan, model, budget for construction and guide prices for plot purchase and monthly tier.
  
  These materials would then be used for market research. The Executive Branch would use the materials to gauge whether there was enough interest in the new sim in the CDS and the rest of Second Life to warrant proceeding to the next phase and submit its report to the RA.
- Phase II: PURCHASE
  On the basis of the report from the Executive, the RA would decide whether to continue with the project or not. Assuming that the RA decides there is sufficient interest to build the new sim(s), the RA would agree any final adjustments to the plan, authorise the Estate Owner to purchase the new sim(s) and commission the New Guild to carry out the work. It is at this point that any questions about payment for services rendered, intellectual property rights to work carried out for the CDS etc would be resolved i.e. before work begins. Advance orders for plots would be made available to CDS citizens.
- Phase III: BUILDING & PROMOTION
  During this phase the sim would be terraformed, roads laid out and any public or private buildings built. Alongside the building work, the new sim would be promoted by the Public Information Officer (or Chancellor if no PIO has been appointed) within the CDS and without with lots being made available for reservation by advance purchase.
- Phase IV: ESTABLISHMENT
  The new sim(s) will be formally opened by the Chancellor once building work has been completed, allowing new residents to move in and establish their homes.
The RA is responsible for setting the budget, timescale and milestones in the process. Where necessary this will involve discussion with the New Guild and the Executive Branch. Project management will take place within the New Guild. The New Guild may invite the Chancellor to resolve any issues that it is unable to in order to maintain progress provided these decisions do not conflict with the guidelines laid down by the RA.

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NL 8-4 Private Development Act

Bill to Authorize Private Development in the CDS

Whereas, all factions agree that the pace of development and expansion of the CDS has been slower than that of SL as a whole, and slower than desired by our community;

Whereas, the Guild has done an excellent job in the building and designing of new sims, but, as a volunteer organization, is not able to design and build sims at the desired pace; and

Whereas, there is a pool of human and financial resources in the CDS citizenry that has not been fully tapped through the Guild-driven process:

It is resolved that private development and expansion of the CDS by citizens and development groups is authorized, subject to a retention of ownership and control by the CDS, and subject to development regulation by the CDS.

Further, the Chancellor shall facilitate and coordinate this process, and shall consult with the Building Approval Committee (BAC) of the New Guild when doing so. However, the BAC shall be advisory only, and that Chancellor shall have ultimate authority on matters relating to the implementation of this Act. The Chancellor may appoint a deputy to assist him or her with this process, or to run this process under his or her supervision.

Whenever a citizen or developer wishes to build or modify land in the CDS, the citizen or developer shall submit a design to the Chancellor for approval. The Chancellor shall assess the plan in light of the regional plan for the CDS and shall approve, deny or request modifications to the developer’s plan in a manner consistent with the regional plan. The citizen or developer shall build only in a manner consistent with the Chancellor’s approval. The Chancellor shall also have the right to inspect the work and request changes in a manner consistent with the regional plan and aesthetic and architectural standards of the CDS, which shall be implemented by the citizen or developer.

The New Guild shall develop an advisory committee called the Building Approval Committee to assist the Chancellor in inspection and approval of privately built CDS sims. The New Guild shall also create, update and maintain a CDS master plan under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur. This plan shall be submitted to and approved by the RA, and shall be resubmitted to the RA for approval whenever it is modified.

In the event the citizen or developer disagrees with a determination of the Chancellor, the citizen or developer shall have the right to appeal the matter to the SC. This SC shall make a determination either accepting the Chancellor’s determination; modifying the Chancellor’s determination; rejecting the Chancellor’s determination and accepting the developer’s alternative, if one is proposed; or rejecting the Chancellor’s determination and remanding the matter to the Chancellor for further action. The SC shall make its decision within sixty days.

Such development shall proceed on the following process:

A citizen or developer wishing to develop a sim for addition to the CDS shall follow one of the following two processes:

The citizen or developer shall create a construction design and submit that design to the Chancellor for review and approval; the Chancellor shall review the proposal and either approve it or send it back for specific revisions (in accordance with any existing master plan for CDS expansion) within two weeks of submission (if the Chancellor fails to act on the proposal within 2 weeks, it shall be deemed approved); acquire a sim that does not lie within two sim-spaces from the CDS; construct the sim in compliance withe the approved design (with the Chancellor or BAC periodically inspecting the work and requesting modifications within the discretion of the Chancellor, but subject to appeal); upon completion, the Chancellor or the BAC will inspect and the Chancellor shall approve the sim as final or request additional work within two weeks of notice from the builder that the sim is final; thereafter, the citizen or developer shall deed the sim to the CDS (through the CDS estate owner), which shall own, operate, sell, and police the sim as a CDS sim, except that initial lot prices shall be set by the builder/developer and proceeds from the sales of those lots shall be paid to the builder/developer. The builder shall further agree to give the CDS an unlimited, non-exclusive license with regard to all intellectual property used in the build, and shall warrant to the CDS that the developer has ownership, permission or other rights to use and transfer all intellectual property rights used in the build.
Or
The citizen or developer shall create a construction design and submit that design to the Chancellor for review and approval; the Chancellor shall review the proposal and either approve it or send it back for specific revisions (in accordance with any existing master plan for CDS expansion) within two weeks of submission (if the Chancellor fails to act on the proposal within 2 weeks, it shall be deemed approved); donate sufficient money to the CDS estate owner to allow the CDS to acquire a sim that within two sim-spaces from the CDS and to pay tier on that sim for four months; construct the sim in compliance withe the approved design (with the Chancellor or BAC shall periodically inspecting the work and requesting modifications within the discretion of the Chancellor, but subject to appeal); upon completion, the Chancellor or BAC will inspect and the Chancellor shall approve the sim as final or request additional work within two weeks of notice from the builder that the sim is final; thereafter, the CDS (through the CDS estate owner), which shall own, operate, sell, and police the sim as a CDS sim, except that initial lot prices shall be set by the builder/developer and proceeds from the sales of those lots shall be paid to the builder/developer. If construction takes longer than four months, the developer shall reimburse the CDS for any tier costs incurred by the CDS during construction. The builder shall further agree to give the CDS an unlimited, non-exclusive license with regard to all intellectual property used in the build, and shall warrant to the CDS that the developer has ownership, permission or other rights to use and transfer all intellectual property rights used in the build.

Upon final completion of the construction, privately built sims shall become part of the CDS and shall not differ from other CDS sims except in the manner in which lot prices are sold and the proceeds from those sales are distributed. Any AV who buys land in a privately built sim shall be a CDS citizen and shall have all the rights, immunities and privileges of citizens.

Further, the CDS shall set up a publicity agency to publicize the CDS, CDS businesses, and available lots for sale in the CDS. This agency shall publicize all CDS land equally, without regard to whether the land was Guild-built, privately built, or otherwise acquired, and shall publicize all commercial, shopping and event areas,without regard to whether the land was Guild-built, privately built, or otherwise acquired. The publicity agency shall be an agency under administration of the Chancellor, with a member or members appointed by the Chancellor, and shall have its own budget.

Source:

See CDSL 21-02 NL 8-4 Ninety Day Moratorium Act

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NL 8-6 Commerce Act

Tentative final text from Jamie Palisades- see http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=12022#p12022]

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NL 9-2 Land Sales Reclamation Act

1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.

2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each landowner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.

3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote in any CDS election or run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.

4. The treasurer will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th day after the due date for the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th day after the due date. At the 14th day after the due date, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-sale.

5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment.

6. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.

7. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
Modified by the RA 29 July 2010
Repealed by the RA 26 October 2014 (See CDSL 21-05)

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NL 9-3 Land Sales Listing Improvement Act

2. Land sales in CDS owned by a citizen are initiated by the citizen, and facilitated and supervised by the CDS Executive Branch. Any land transfer of any kind by any citizen requires notification to the Treasurer of CDS per NL 4-3. [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=144]

3. CDS sim estate settings currently permit “direct” land sales by citizens using the Second Life software map “for sale” listings (commonly known as the yellow map parcel methods). The Executive Branch is hereby authorized to disable that direct sale function, and cause all all future land sales by citizens to be possible only through a central, government-owned listing system, as soon as each of the following requirements are met:

a. The Executive Branch has provided for a central listing method that advertises the availability of all available parcels, with reasonable timeliness and ease of access, and posts them, at least, in conspicuous in-world devices in two CDS sims, and on the Web.

b. The Executive Branch has delivered to the RA by posting to the CDS Forums a certificate indicating that the foregoing system is in place, and describing it.

c. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws that specify land sale methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

3. Once the foregoing new system is in place, the Executive Branch also will use it to list CDS-owned parcels for sale.

Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009

Repealed 10 April 2011

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NL 12-1 STV Quota Bill

Droop quota is understood to mean: without the decimal part.

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CDSL 13-03 Motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act

Repealed 26 October 2014 by CDSL 21-05 Tier Collection and Land Reclamation Act

Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.

Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date within 5 days of the delinquency.
Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

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CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act

No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession

Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law

———————————————————————————————————

Amended 10 April 2011 by CDSL 14-02

Further amended 30 October 2011 by CDSL 15-03

Repealed 12 May 2012 by CDSL 16-06

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CDSL 14-02 Amendment of Term Limits Act

CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act is amended to read:

“No elected office of the Executive branch in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen for more than two terms in succession.

Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law”

Passed 10 April 2011

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CDSL 15-03 Reinstatement of Term Limits

Reinstating CDSL-13-07 “No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession

Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law”

Passed 30 October 2011

Repealed 12 May 2012

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CDSL 15-04 CDS Weportal Act

The CDS Webportal is the main channel of communication of CDS. It is equally open to each branch of the government, of each NGO active in CDS and to all CDS citizen.

The Administrator is responsible for accesses, (providing username and password for named redactors ) support and quality management. The Administrator manage the whole portal, the plug ins, theme, widgets, and the picture gallery on the home page. The Administrator name an another responsible if unable to work on the portal for more then two weeks. The Administrator is responsible to provide a regular backup of the portal. The Administrator has access to the blog.

The Editor is responsible for the content of a branch, an NGO, a faction or any activity in CDS. Each organization is responsible to nominate a person who gets the role of Editor and to submit the name to the Administrator who will provide access to the blog for the duration of their term. The Editor has an access to the blog.

The owner of the domain name www.slcds.info and subdomain portal.slcds.info assure continued service in collaboration with the Administrator.

Inclusion in the list of CDS bloggers on the home page is open to every citizen who has a blog, as long as the blog is in line with our laws, the LL ToS and the Declaration of Human rights. Bloggers can submit a request to the Administrator.

Passed 30 October 2011

Repealed by the 23rd RA, October 17, 2015

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CDSL 21-01 Permanent Land-Use Commission Act

CDSL 21-01 Permanent Land-Use Commission Act

Enacted 16 October 2014

BE IT ENACTED BY THE 21ST REPRESENTATIVE ASSEMBLY

Whereas, any democratic group, in which individuals have the power to change the group environment, must have the power to regulate that change;

And, since an expectation that such regulation of the change or use in the graphical environment will require persistent expertise, continuity of vision and consistent adherence to applicable laws;

And, since Individuals responsible for such regulation must: 1. Have expertise in how change is made; 2. Be accountable to the group for their actions, and; 3. Provide a measure of continuity to the regulation process:

SECTION I: FORMATION OF A STANDING LAND-USE COMMISSION

The Representative Assembly (RA), in accord with its constitutionally mandated service role to “perform long term planning,” shall establish a permanent commission, called the CDS Land-Use Commission (hereinafter called “the Commission”), to advise on the regulation of such use in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (hereinafter called “CDS”). Which Land-Use shall be hereafter defined as: Any manipulation of, or activity within, the three-dimensional Second Life grid including, but not limited to, region purchase and placement, terraforming, object placement, textures, as well as the type of activities for which said environment shall be used. Said authority shall be vested with the Commission, within the CDS estate in the present Second Life Grid, its territories in an SL2, or another grid upon which CDS establishes a presence..

SECTION II: POWERS

The purpose of this commission is to form a group of experts to advise the RA in the mandate of the parent body to make laws and control finances, as well as to advise the Executive regarding land usage and management. It shall have access to, and permissions for, all the assets of the CDS, both in its 3D-grid environment(s) and all CDS controlled media in the performance of its work which shall be enumerated in section VI – including, but not limited to, access to public venues, exterior of structures on private parcels, permissions to rez and manipulate objects for Commission business, scheduling meetings, conducting surveys, publishing results. Nothing in this document, however, shall allow the commission to make law or fund projects. Such powers shall be explicitly reserved for the Representative Assembly.

SECTION III: MEMBERS

To be composed of six members whose aggregate expertise is composed of, but not limited to: terraforming, landscaping, building, texture creation and application. Such members are to be nominated: 1. Two citizens, by the CDS Artisans Guild, or by subsequent, approved, NGOs; 2. One citizen by the RA from its membership, each term and not subject to the rotation, appointed by the RA by simple majority. 3. One citizen from the Executive Branch, appointed by the Chancellor, and; 4. Two citizens appointed by RA members from the Citizenry-at-large, via a simple majority vote by the RA. Those nominated shall be confirmed by the Representative Assembly and become Members of the Commission. Such Membership shall be, after the initial seating, on a rotational basis, according to a plan formulated by the initial members and approved by the RA. A member may resign or be removed from office at the discretion of the RA upon the recommendation of their nominator. This resulting vacancy, or the vacancies due to end-of-term, shall be filled according to the legislated process, the new member(s) assuming the term of the member(s) replaced.

SECTION IV: STRUCTURE

The commission shall select a chairperson and an alternate, who shall preside over meetings, without a vote, unless to decide a split decision, a secretary who shall keep minutes of the proceedings and inspectors who may be hired from the Commission or Citizenry-at-large, who will determine the conformity of all builds and uses, including complete regions, within the jurisdiction of CDS, either in Second Life, or other grids, as CDS establishes presence on them.

SECTION V: MEETINGS

Meetings of the Commission shall be held at published times, at a frequency dependent on the demands of its mandate, but not less than once per Month. Procedures shall be adopted to encourage speedy and measured discussions and votes. A quorum shall be 1 member more than half of the appointed members. All decisions shall be considered passed by either a majority of the quorum or by the chairperson if the vote is split. Unless otherwise published, all meetings shall be open to Citizens, who shall be afforded a brief time at the end of the session to ask questions. All in attendance shall be notified that the entire transcript will be recorded and published. The Secretary shall post the transcript of the meeting, within 24 hours of adjournment, in a medium accessible to all Citizens. Minutes of all meetings shall be accepted at the following regular meeting, and be published with the transcript of that regular meeting.

SECTION VI: AUTHORITY

VI-A. MASTER PLAN

The Commission shall create, update and maintain a CDS master plan, under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur. This plan shall be submitted to and approved by the RA, as well as being resubmitted to the RA for approval whenever modifications are deemed necessary by either the Commission or the RA.

VI-B. NEW REGION PLANNING

The Land Use Commission shall, upon a request from the RA or the Chancellor, investigate the viability of new region purchase and present recommendations to both bodies. This will include, but is not limited to:

Consideration of type of region (full region, homestead, void, or other types that might become available in the future);
Consideration of placement of region;
Consideration of region theme;
A survey of Citizens;
Appropriate In-world meetings for discussion and public comments;.
Compilation and summarization of ideas and comments from citizens from surveys and official meetings, or future channels as they may be useful.
A consideration of finances, balance of public and private prims and any specific public spaces appropriate to the theme.
A draft of legislation for the acquisition of a new region or regions, including covenants and/or codes for said region, which shall regulate the manipulation or use of CDS’ three-dimensional, graphical environment, whether on Public or Private parcels.

VI-C: PUBLIC WORKS

Upon a request from the RA or the Chancellor, the Land Use Commission shall call for bids for either the planning and/or the construction of Public works, either new, or for maintenance, to be awarded on a competitive basis. Such bids shall be from citizens of the CDS, or, under special circumstances, from foreign contractors, and shall include methods, timeline and payment schedules, as well as design elements. The Commission shall forward the winning bid(s) and alternates, if required, to the RA for approval. Once approved, the Commission shall, through its inspection team, work with the Contractor(s) to facilitate the timely and coherent completion of the project. If the RA determines that any project is sufficiently complex, it shall direct the Commission to add a method of continuing the project, in the event that the RA, upon advisement of the Commission, would decide that the initial contractor cannot fulfill its obligation. Nothing in this section shall limit the ability of a commissioner, engaged in the activities of a contractor, to continue activities within the Commission, except in the role of an inspector on any project where there might be any conflict of interest, or when the Commission is discussing or voting on issues related to a project in which the Commissioner is, or will be, involved. In addition, should a Commissioner participate in discussions, or vote, on an issue involving any given project, such Commissioner shall be prohibited from participating in that project.

VI-E: PRIVATE LAND USE

The Land Use Commission shall:

Monitor, through its inspectors, the changes in the CDS environment and advise the Executive to work with landowners to resolve any differences between such changes or uses and the covenants and codes
Accept, in a prescribed format (including public input, if appropriate), and forward to the Executive for approval, petitions for variances from the existing covenants and codes, under the condition that: 1. The substance of such variance shall be considered in compliance with the intent, if not the letter, of the law, and; 2. The application of such variance might contribute to the overall aesthetics or usefulness of the CDS environment. Such approval shall be for the benefit of the petitioner only and shall not transfer to subsequent land owners.

SECTION VII: RECOURSE

Decisions made by the Commission and/or its inspectors, plus any subsequent action(s) by the Chancellor’s Office may be challenged: a. By a petition of the affected party; b. In a format approved by the commission, including a requirement of personal attendance; c. To the Land-Use Commission; d. At its next scheduled meeting, or sooner, if a quorum of the Commission agrees to expedite the process. The decision of the Commission shall be binding on all parties, subject to appropriate appeals.

SECTION VIII: CONTINUITY

With the exception of existing region placement, topography, infrastructure, landscaping, theme, and covenants, plus existing public and approved private structures along with their existing uses, all existing laws pertaining to the land use described in the preceding sections shall be immediately superseded. If a conflict arises between existing laws and the duties, responsibilities and authorities specified in this law, this law shall prevail. Existing covenants, codes and procedures which fall under the purview of this bill but are not explicitly described in it, shall continue according to present use until the Commission shall recommend new codes and procedures to be subsequently approved by the Representative Assembly.

DEFINITIONS

CDS: Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
RA: The sitting, Representative Assembly of the CDS, as defined per Article I, Section 1 of the Constitution.
Land: Virtual property defined as the area bound by discrete horizontal coordinates in the SL, or other similar grid, and including a vertical axis with an associated volume.
Citizen: A member of CDS who has rights, as defined per Article VI, Section 1 of the Constitution.
Public Works: Change to the three-dimensional environment on any CDS land.
Private Land: Land whose ownership pays tier to CDS.
Covenant: Regulations attached to a specific parcel of land.
Code: Regulation with general application.
Procedure: Authorized and/or prescribed activities carried out by an entity, acting within the scope of this bill.
Non-Governmental Organization (NGO): Any self-governed group, 1. approved for one or more particular purposes by the RA; 2. formed under NL 4-14 Registration and Incorporation Act ; 3. or formed under a similar charter.

Posted to the forum at: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5715#p35081

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CDSL 24-01 Responsible Estate Management Act

Tenancy fluctuations and long term vacancies can negatively impact the financial health of the estate. This bill establishes parameters for selling a CDS region if it remains vacant, in the red and a financial liability.

1. If a region in the CDS fails to generate more than 75% of its monthly tier expense for more than three consecutive months, the Chancellor is empowered to take steps to sell the region, if he /she deems it in the best financial interests of the CDS.
The Chancellor will determine the sale price of the region based on the average market sale price for regions of that type at that time.

2. The Chancellor must give 30 days notice to all CDS citizens of the intention to sell a region both on the CDS forum and in an in-world CDS group notice.

3. The Chancellor must give 30 days notice of the sale to all citizens of the region via notecard. In the case of group owned land, the Chancellor will provide notice via notecard to the group owner.

4. Citizens of the region being sold are responsible for abandoning their land and taking refunds of their tier balance from the tier meters before the date of the sale.

5. Available parcels in the region that is scheduled for sale will remain available for lease during the next 27 days making it possible for residents to purchase land and generate revenue for the sim.
The RA has the authority to convene a session and override the Chancellor’s decision by a majority vote within 29 days of the Chancellors announcement to sell the sim.

6. Three days prior to the sale date, the Chancellor will review the financial status of the sim and post his/her findings to the CDS Group inworld and on the CDS forum.
If the sim generated at least 75% of its monthly tier expense, the sale of the sim will halt.
If the sim did not generate at least 75% of its monthly tier expense, the Chancellor will announce his/her intentions to sell the sim or not in the CDS Group inworld and on the CDS forums.
On the scheduled date of sale, the Chancellor will clear the region completely of all objects before placing the region for sale.

7. The Chancellor can confer the responsibility of clearing the region on a CDS estate manager.

8. At the Chancellor’s direction, Rudeen must place the region up for sale in the For Sale By Owner group. The Chancellor is responsible for writing up the text for the sales notice and for giving it to Rudeen.

9. Money from the sale of the region shall remain in the general CDS account (Rudeen).

10. Neufriedstadt is excluded from this act. Given the history of the region and the significance to CDS, Neufreidtadt will remain until it is no longer able to pay for itself or SL service ends.
If the region meeting the criteria as laid out in section one of this act is one of the grandfathered sims: Neufreistadt, Colonia Nova or Monastery then an extra-ordinary session of the RA will be convened to decide which sim is to be sold.

REPEALED and replaced by CDSL 28-01 Region Divestment Act, August 13, 2018

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CDSL 34-01 Land Use Commission Act

1 Motivation and Purpose

(A) The Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) strives to let citizens actively participate by proposing, discussing, deciding and implementing the three-dimensional environment and all its directly related topics and items which make up the geography of the CDS territories. This may also comprise the control of environmental conditions like regional Windlight settings, seasonal changes and other phenomenons, so far these are controllable by Second Life residents with the respective permissions.

(B) As the elected body for this goal, the Representative Assembly (RA), in accord with its constitutionally mandated service role to “perform long term planning,” shall establish a permanent commission as a means to advise, to prepare, to record and to supervise their approved projects with respect to the CDS land use. This commission shall be called the Land Use Commission (LUC).

(C) The LUC is a public institution of the CDS, entrusted with public functions outlined in (B). It is directly supervised and controlled by the RA. Its powers and permissions are directly tied to public discussions in the CDS Discussion Forums and to the votes of the RA. The LUC shall process orders on behalf of the legislative and executive branches of the CDS. It thus shall be responsive to requests from the RA and the Chancellor, but may set its own agenda.

(D) The LUC is obliged to collaborate closely with the Chancellor in an advisory role. This way, the LUC shall assist the Chancellor in fulfilling his/her constitutional tasks with respect to land use and to help integrate new buildings and infrastructure into the landscape. This comprises, but is not limited to trees, rocks, water, roads, parcels, permanent decor, CDS-owned infrastructure and terraforming.

(E) Referring to (B), the LUC shall work out and recommend concepts of region development and usage both on public and private land, to advise the RA on keeping the covenants up to date and recommend new, more effective technologies as they become available. The LUC may inspect public and private land to find problematic locations that need improvement and make those recommendations to the Chancellor and the RA.

(F) Another obligation of the LUC shall be to create and to maintain suitable documentation such as drawings, maps, spreadsheets and more for RA and citizen understanding of projects.

(G) Though the long-time experience has shown that the commissioned creators of public projects are often LUC members, the LUC as such must not serve as the actual building contractor in order to prevent conflicts of interest. Building contractors may be suggested by the LUC to the Chancellor who will contract the actual work to a qualified CDS Artisan Guild member, or a member of the Executive team or CDS citizen at large.

2 Membership, Structure and Roles

A) The LUC shall be re-established at the beginning of every election term. The LUC term in office shall be bound on the CDS election period and shall end automatically as soon as a newly elected RA has gathered for the first time.

(B) The LUC shall be composed of six members, preferably design experts of various fields of activity, and further interested citizens in order to encompass a variety of viewpoints and approaches to the discussed matters. Such members are to be appointed by:
1. Two citizens from the CDS Artisan Guild,
2. One RA member appointed by the RA
3. One citizen from the Executive Branch appointed by the Chancellor
4. Two citizens in good standing appointed by the RA

(C) The LUC shall elect the LUC Chairperson, the LUC Deputy Chairperson as pro tempore and the LUC Secretary. The regulation regarding their term in office shall apply as defined in (A).

(D) The LUC shall follow democratic modes of decision making as usual at any CDS panel. Though meetings are public in general and citizens are welcome to attend at any time, only LUC members have the right to vote.

(E) It is the obligation of the LUC Chairperson or – in the case of absence of the LUC Chairperson – of the LUC Deputy Chairperson to set up the agenda for the LUC meetings, to invite the LUC members and all interested citizens to meetings and other activities of the LUC, to moderate the meetings and to represent the LUC in the CDS public.

(F) It is the obligation of the LUC Secretary to publish the meeting transcripts and keep the Minutes of Meeting in the LUC Forum. Minutes of all meetings shall be accepted at the following regular meeting, and be published with the transcript of that regular meeting.

(G) It is considered advisable that the LUC Chairperson or the LUC Deputy Chairperson by way of a substitute attend the meetings of the Representative Assembly to give a report about the ongoing work of the LUC and answer questions. If both the LUC Chairperson and the LUC Deputy Chairperson are indisposed, the RA LUC Delegate shall fill this role. The RA LUC Delegate shall have the privilege to comment first on LUC related items. It is taken for granted that the Assembly Members read the LUC Minutes in preparation of the Meeting.

(H) A LUC member may resign or be removed from office at the discretion of the RA upon the recommendation of their nominator. This resulting vacancy, or the vacancies due to end-of-term, shall be filled according to the legislative process, the new member(s) assuming the term of the member(s) replaced.

3 Meetings

(A) Ordinary meetings of the LUC shall be held at published times, at a frequency dependent on the demands of its mandate, but not less than once per month.

(B) The LUC has the right to decide a Code of Procedure for its meetings. This Code of Procedure shall be published in the forum.

(C) The LUC is expected to welcome all interested citizens as guests at their meetings and be open to their suggestions and concerns. It is expected that all guests behave respectfully and that they comply with the rules of the Code of Procedure.

(D) The LUC Chairperson and the LUC Deputy Chair have the right to invite LUC members to on-site inspections. For this kind of meeting, a public invitation is not obligatory, albeit a transcript must be kept and published.

4 Public Information and Discourse Policy

(A) Permanent changes to public land, outside of the seasonal tree and ground texture changes and official CDS temporary structures for events, have to be announced in the CDS Forum and allow a sufficient comment period to make sure the interests and concerns of all interested citizens can be taken into account by the RA. Public spaces have to be developed in accordance with policy and changes need to be subject to public comment and review.

(B) The duration of comment periods in the CDS Forums is defined in CDSL 34-02.

(C) The regulations of the LUC Act regarding transparent region development guidelines must not be in contradiction to other laws.

IMPLEMENTING BY-LAWS TO CDSL 34-01 LAND-USE COMISSION ACT AS OF JAN. 2021

1st BY-LAW: MASTER PLAN
Based upon the Paragraphs 1(E) and (F) of CDSL 34-01 the Land Use Commission shall create, update and maintain a CDS master plan, under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur. This plan shall be submitted to and approved by the RA, as well as being resubmitted to the RA for approval whenever modifications are deemed necessary by either the Commission or the RA.

2nd BY-LAW: NEW REGION PLANNING
Based upon the Paragraphs 1(E) and (F) of CDSL 34-01 the Land Use Commission shall, upon a request from the RA or the Chancellor, investigate the viability of new region purchase and present recommendations to both bodies. This will include, but is not limited to:

1. Consideration of type of region (full region, homestead, void, or other types that might become available in the future);
2. Consideration of placement of region;
3. Consideration of region theme;
4. A survey of Citizens;
5. Appropriate In-world meetings for discussion and public comments;.
6. Compilation and summarization of ideas and comments from citizens from surveys and official meetings, or future channels as they may be useful.
7. A consideration of finances, balance of public and private prims and any specific public spaces appropriate to the theme.
8. A draft of legislation for the acquisition of a new region or regions, including covenants and/or codes for said region, which shall regulate the manipulation or use of CDS’ three-dimensional, graphical environment, whether on Public or Private parcels.

CDSL 21-01 Land Use Commission Act
Enacted 16 October 2014
Updated by the 34th RA, February 13. 2021
Repealed and replaced by CDSL 39-01 Artisan Guild Act, October 14, 2023

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Archaic Code (40)

NL 3-6 MoCA Act

This Act establishes a Museum of Contemporary Art to be build by the Guild and owned and operated by the city.

The maintenance and operation can and should be outsourced to a private group
(either from within the guild or not – guild gets first choice). So there will be no “deed”.
Just a standard contract agreed between the City and the private group, where the
private group is entitled to all the revenues and benefits on the MoCA (and it even gets
the building for free), but the City owns the land beneath.

The “contract” should have a duration (say, 3 months) and set some goals (eg. number
of artistic & cultural events held there, number of visitors, traffic generated for the
City, etc.), and be automatically revalidated if all goals are achieved. If they aren’t, it’s
up to the City to discuss more reasonable goals, or make a new contract with a
different group.

passed 2 October 2005

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NL 4-3 Land Sales Reporting Act

Any citizen selling land in Neualtenburg must report the buyer’s name, lot name, and purchase price to the city treasurer within 5 days of the transfer.

passed 8 February 2006
Explanatory notes

Collection of this information is required to facilitate collection of the Land Transfer Tax documented in Neualtenburg land deeds.

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NL 4-5 Central Commercial District Land Fee Act

All lots in the central commercial district (as defined in NL 4-2) shall be assessed a monthly land fee equal to 133% of the base land fee for lots inside the city walls.

passed 8 February 2006

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NL 4-6 Financial Reserves Act

The Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) shall move 1 month’s tier in USD to a separate line item (reserve account), and make those funds unavailable for other use.

Funds in the account shall be disbursed at the discretion of the RA to pay recurring expenses in the event of a sudden and unexpected drop in $USD income.

CDS shall augment this account as funds are available until it contains enough funds to pay all recurring CDS expenses for a period of two months absent other income.

passed 8 February 2006

updated 6 January 2020 (Minute 7.2 of RA meeting 06-January-2020)

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NL 4-10 Prim Farm Act

The lot currently designated as p280 will be placed under a new covenant. p280 will be subdivided as necessary and made available only to those citizens who already own a plot inside the city walls, for the purpose of allowing a larger prim-allowance. The actual territory of p280 itself may have no building done on it other than trees and other natural objects, to preserve an “undeveloped park” look.

passed 6 March 2006

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NL 4-12 MoCA Charter Acceptance Act

IN ORDER THAT THE CITY OF NEUALTENBURG MAY ENJOY: A vibrant and flourishing city-life; A steadily growing influx of visitors for the benefit of trade; A reputation as a beacon and a patron for the world of arts; And to contribute generally to the range of activities available for the enlightenment and involvement of its citizenry

The Representative Assembly hereby acknowledges the CHARTER FOR THE INDEPENDENT SOCIETY FOR A MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART IN NEUALTENBURG and enters into a mutual agreement on the working conditions of such an arrangement.

The proposed arrangements build upon RA decision as of the meeting of 18th September 2005 with the necessary modifications to enter into a second phase of active operations.

passed 6 March 2006

Moved to archaic April 15, 2019

SEE: MoCA Charter

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NL 4-14 Registration and Incorporation Act

BILL FOR THE REGISTRATION AND INCORPORATION OF COMPANIES IN NEUALTENBURG

Article 1: Purpose

Section 1: The purpose of this bill is as follows:
– To allow companies to register for recognition as legal entities under Neualtenburg jurisdiction
– To facilitate collective ownership of companies with respect to the above
– To allow the incorporation of a company setting up requirements limiting the liability of ownership while providing a necessary degree of security for creditors

Article 2: Definitions

Section 1: The Neualtenburg Chamber of Commerce (Chamber of Commerce) is an institution under the auspices of the Guild, which is chartered with the responsibility of maintaining a public registry of companies, their securities and obligations (the Register).

Section 2: A Neualtenburg Registered Company (NRC) describes an entity capable of entering into agreements and undertake obligations, which will be recognised under the jurisdiction of Neualtenburg legislation.

Section 3: The Commercial Court of Neualtenburg (Commercial Court) is an institution under the Scientific Council chartered with the responsibility of settling disputes where one or more parties is an NRC in accordance with the provisions of article 7, section 3 of the Constitution.

Section 4: A company registration form is used to describe the details of a NRC’s name, ownership, empowerment criteria, concept of liability and if applicable the size of the deposit being kept in escrow with the National Bank of Neualtenburg. A template of this form is maintained by the Chamber of Commerce.

Section 5: A company dissolution form is used to propose how the Neualtenburg-registered assets of an NRC will be distributed between individuals and entities upon the closure of an NRC. It also states the reason for the desired dissolution of the NRC.

Section 6: Empowerment is understood as the ability of one or more individuals or entities to take action on behalf of a NRC with respect to entering into obligations, certifying that obligations of other parties in relation to the NRC have been met, submitting a new company registration form or submitting a company dissolution form to the Commercial Chamber.

Section 7: The Neualtenburg Notary service (the Notary) is the facility installed at the Rathaus, which enables users to entrust a document with a certificate of authenticity as well as signatures of the involved parties. The process by which this is arrived at is called notarisation.

Section 8: The Neualtenburger Bank is an institution under the Guild, which for the purpose of this document is chartered with taking assets into escrow to establish a minimum deposit fulfilling the requirements for NRC’s operating under a concept of limited liability and issuing a certificate to that effect. A seperate law governs the operations of this institution.

Article 3: Registration

Section 1: Any individual or collection of individuals may apply to be registered as an NRC by obtaining a copy of the template for the company registration form and filling it in with the necessary information as guided by the Chamber of Commerce. However, the actual approval and continued upkeep of NRC status is dependent on the specific form of company as well as of the fulfilment of the requirements detailed in the remainder of this document.

Section 2: The name of the NRC as specified in the company registration form consists of three elements: The distinctive element, the descriptive element and an element describing the concept of liability under which the NRC will operate:

The distinctive element is mandatory. It must be one or more words uniquely identifying the company. This can be anything such as a family name, a brand name or the name of a geographic region..

The descriptive element is optional. It describes the kind of business, which the company will operate. Examples of descriptive elements are “real estate”, “architects” or “weaponsmith”.

The element describing liability is mandatory. It must be either “N.Reg.”or “N. Registered” or “Neualtenburg Registered” to describe a company with unlimited liability in respect to any obligations registered, or it must be “N.Inc.” or “N. Incorporated” or “Neualtenburg Incorporated” to describe an incorporated company with a liability limited to the assets held by it under Neualtenburg jurisdiction.

The combined elements of the NRC name must uniquely identify the company. It is the prerogative of the Chamber of Commerce to determine whether or not the name specified on the company registration form is appropriate and sufficiently distinct as to merit registration. This verdict cannot be appealed. The Chamber of Commerce shall devise guidelines, to be ratified by the RA, for appropriate naming.

Section 3: The owners of the NRC should be listed on the Company Registration Form as the names of the avatars that will be considered owners of this company under Neualtenburg jurisdiction.

Section 4: The empowerment criteria should be described on the company registration as conditions that must be met in order for a person to be empowered to carry out either of the following transactions on behalf of the company relative to Neualtenburg jurisdiction:

– Register a new Company Registration Form with amendments to the old one
– Sign documents on behalf of the NRC containing obligations that will be honoured or even executed by Neualtenburg jurisdiction.
– Sign documents on behalf of the NRC releasing other entities from obligations undertaken in respect of an agreement with the NRC
– Register a Company Dissolution Form

The criteria should be described in a way that they can be objectively verified to have been fulfilled by the Commercial Chamber ahead of its registration of a document. Empowered persons must be citizens of Neualtenburg

Section 5: It must be specified on the Company Registration Form whether the NRC will operate as a registered company with unlimited liability respect to any obligations registered to it, or if it will operate as an incorporated company with a liability limited to the assets held by it under Neualtenburg jurisdiction. Further requirements will apply depending on the chosen concept of liability as described in Articles 4 and 5 as applicable.

Section 6: The company registration form must be submitted to a representative of the Chamber of Commerce and contain information as described in Article 2, sections 4. At the same time a registration fee is paid according to the tariff set by the Gildemeister. This fee is non-refundable.

Section 7: In the case of the Company Registration Form being approved by the Chamber of Commerce the Form must be signed by all the Owners as specified in Article 3, section 3 and notarised at the Notary after which it will be deposited in the public Register by the Chamber of Commerce.

Section 8: Upon successful registration with the Chamber of Commerce the NRC will be considered a legal person with the same rights and duties as a citizen of Neualtenburg with the exception that it cannot vote for nor stand as a candidate in any governmental branch.

Article 4: Requirements for NRC with unlimited liability

Section 1: All owners of an NRC registered as operating with unlimited liability must be residents of Neualtenburg and own total land in excess of 144 sqm.

Section 2: The NRC will become a member of the Neualtenburger Guild and is required to abide by any Code of Conduct that may be published by the Guild with respect to their operations.

Section 3: The current owners of an NRC registered as operating with unlimited liability are personally responsible in solidum for payment of any obligations resulting from agreements entered into by anyone acting on behalf of the company in accordance with the empowerment criteria described in the Company Registration Form at the time of the act.

Section 4: If an NRC is found to not fulfill the criteria outlined in Article 4, section 1 – 2 they have 7 days to bring this in order. Otherwise, the Chamber of Commerce will file a Company Dissolution Form with the Commercial Court.
Article 5: Requirements for NRC with limited liability

Section 1: An incorporated NRC with limited liability must own land in Neualtenburg. The deed to this land must be notarised and deposited in the company file with the Commercial Chamber.

Section 2: An incorporated NRC with limited liability must deposit assets in escrow with the National Bank and receive a notarised certificate from the Neualtenburger Bank to this effect. The notarised certificate must be deposited with the Chamber of Commerce where it will be published in the Register. The total sum to be deposited in escrow will be determined by the owners of the NRC but must be in excess of 10,000 L$.

Section 3: The NRC will become a member of the Neualtenburger Guild and is required to abide by any Code of Conduct that may be published by the Guild with respect to their operations.

Section 4: If an NRC registered as operating with limited liability is found to not fulfill the criteria outlined in article 5, sections 1 – 3 they have 7 days to bring this in order. Otherwise, the Chamber of Commerce will file a Company Dissolution Form with the Commercial Court.

Article 6: Obligations and litigation

Section 1: An NRC may enter into agreements with other entities or persons under legally binding obligations.

Section 2: In order for an agreement between the NRC and another party to be legally binding it must be signed by empowered parties acting on behalf of the NRC in accordance with the empowerment criteria and a representative of the other party, notarised at the Notary and deposited with the Chamber of Commerce, which will publish it in the Registry.

Section 3: For an NRC to be absolved of an obligation entered into under a legally binding agreement, a new agreement to this effect between the NRC and the other party must be signed by empowered parties acting on behalf of the NRC in accordance with the empowerment criteria and a representative of the other party, notarised at the Notary and deposited with the Chamber of Commerce, which will publish it in the Registry.

Section 4: Correspondingly, anyone empowered under the criteria specified in the Company Registration Form may authorise the release of another NRC from obligations previously entered into with this NRC by persons or entitites then empowered to act on behalf of the NRC. For this to be legally binding it should be declared in writing, notarised, signed by both parties and submitted to the Chamber of Commerce, which will publish it in the Register.

Section 5: Should a creditor be unable to obtain the fulfilment of obligations undertaken by an NRC with unlimited liability in respect to a still current agreement signed by the empowered parties, notarised and deposited with the Chamber of Commerce, he may bring the matter to the Commercial Cort. The Commercial Court will then initiate arbitration proceedings to assess the claim in accordance with article 7, section 3 of the Constitution If the claim is found to have merit it must be honoured by the NRC or the creditor will be authorised to file a company dissolution form with the Commercial Court, which will then execute the claim on behalf of the creditor through extension of the claim to the owners of the company in solidum.

Section 6: Should a creditor be unable to obtain the fulfilment of obligations undertaken by an NRC with limited liability in respect to a still current agreement signed by the empowered parties, notarised and deposited with the Chamber of Commerce, he may bring the matter to the Commercial Court. The Commercial Court will then initiate arbitration proceedings to assess the claim in accordance with article 7, section 3 of the Constitution If the claim is found to have merit it must be honoured by the NRC or the creditor will be authorised to file a company dissolution form with the Commercial Court, which will then initiate a liquidation of the company on the basis of the deposit kept in escrow with the Neualtenburger Bank and any other holdings and assets of the NRC that may be within reach of the authorities of Neualtenburg.

Article 7: Re-registration

Section 1: Anyone empowered to do so according to the criteria specified in the Company Registration Form for an NRC may file a new Company Registration Form specifying amendments to the original form. The procedure is identical with that described in article 3 and the requirements the same as those outlined in article 4.

Section 2: The following changes may take place during re-registration:
– The NRC may change its name.
– The ownership may be changed.
– Empowerment criteria may be changed
– The concept of liability may be changed
– For an NRC with a limited liability the amount being deposited in escrow may be increased

Article 8: Dissolution

Section 1: Anyone empowered to do so according to the criteria specified in the Company Registration Form for an NRC may file a Company Dissolution Form with the Commercial Court. This will result in the Court initiating a liquidation of the company with a subsequent distribution of assets among creditors who are able to prove their claims in accordance with article 6, sections 5 or 6 as applicable. Any remaining assets will be distributed among the owners listed in the current Company Registration Form.

Section 2: The Chamber of Commerce may file for dissolution of an NRC initiating the same procedure as described in article 8, section 1 when an NRC fails to meet its obligations under sections 3 and 4 of this document.

Section 3: Any creditor with an unhonoured claim deemed valid through through arbitration proceedings as described in article 6, sections 4 – 5 may file a Company Dissolution Form with the Commercial Court initiating the same procedure as described in article 8, section 1.

Article 9: Fees

Section 1: The Chamber of Commerce, the Neualtenburger Bank and the Commercial Court have the mandate to charge fees for any services provided in accordance with this document. Tariffs should be maintained and made publicly available.

Section 2: The Representative Assembly may decide to charge a recurring fee for the privilege of being registered with the Chamber of Commerce. Any NRC registered with the Chamber of Commerce is obliged to honour payments of this fee regardless of the time of their registration. In case of non-payment of fees the Representative Assembly has the mandate to file a Company Dissolution Form with the Commercial Court following the procedure as outlined in article 8 section 1.

passed 6 March 2006

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NL 4-15 Neualtenberger Bank Act

This bill establishes the Neualtenburger Bank, the bank is overseen by the treasurer of the city. The bank is authorized to make payments on behalf of the city and to hold escrow deposits from citizens and Neualtenburg registered companies and corporations. It will issue notarised certificates to this effect for which a nominal administrative fee will be charged at a tariff set by the treasurer.

passed 6 March 2006
Made Archaic by SL ToS prohibiting banking in SL.

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NL 4-16 Public Prim Allotment Act

Public service institutions chartered by City of Neualtenburg share prims from the general Neualtenburg Raumnutzung prim allotment. These institutions are the Museum, the School, and possibly if they should fall in this catagory in the future, the Church, the Biergarten and the Schloss. Implementation of this measure will involve two primary actions:

The institution will operate in the manner already established, chartered by the City, and contributing monthly fee based on the Land Area they occupy and the zoning rates applicable to that area. But, the parcel(s) they occupy will not be deeded to their “Group”, but rather will remain as a part of the Raumnutzung.
The institution agrees to participate in a Guild-based Prim management Committee. This committee will oversee the regular collection of prim use data from the component parcels deeded to the Raumnutzung, and will determine, based on usage needs agreed by representatives of the Guild and each participant institution, fair and equitable prim allotment.

Furthermore, The Guild is directed to develop and implement a plan to reduce prim usage at the Neualtenburger Kirche by 25%.

passed as amended 11 March 2006

Notes:

At the current time, about half of Neualtenburg land remains deeded to the Neualtenburg Raumnutzung (Neualtenburg Land Management Group). Even if all parcels designated for sale should be sold, a substantial percentage of the sim will remain Raumnutzung.

Ordinarily, as each new institution is formed, it’s parcel, like all citizens’ parcels, would be deeded to the group managing the institutions. And, as with citizens, the institution would then have available for its use only that many prims as are allocated for the m2 occupied. Allocated prims are approximately 23% of m2.

However, all the institutions which may be affected by this measure are heavy users of prims, indeed, by necessity in most cases. This proposal returns those institution’s prim allotments to the general City pool, with the theory that the common good provided by those institutions is deserving of sharing in all prims available to the City. In addition, the common “interest” of the public service institutions provide a common ground upon which to come to shared agreement on prim usage.

It is envisioned that the Prim Management Committee (PMC) will have frequent cause to examine prim usage, with an eye towards shifting the allotments from time to time as scheduled events cause first one institution and then another to need more than their ordinary share.

notes by Sudane Erato

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NL 4-17 Anzere Infohub Act

The city shall apply to Linden Labs to build and manage the Anzere Infohub. The city shall pay Aliasi Stonebender $L1000 to coordinate the project.

passed as amended 22 March 2006
Archaic in that the project has long been finished.

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NL 4-18 City Building Redundancy Act

Full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be provided by the builder to the Content Archivist. The full-permission copy is for the CDS intended purpose only, and not to be given or sold otherwise. In addition pictures have to be published in the portal by the Executive.

Passed as amended March 29 2006

Further amended by CDSL 15-02 17 July 2011

Made Archaic by RA 25-01-2020

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NL 4-20 Construction Authority Act (supercedes NL 3-10)

1. OverviewThe Guild shall be free to make modification to public city structures provided those modifications don’t significantly alter the theme and layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim.
2. Details

A. What may be altered

The Guild is authorized to make alterations, including replacement of all public city structures, so long as those modifications don’t significantly alter the theme and layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim.

The Guild must, however, seek specific authorization from the RA prior to altering any structure previously paid for with city funds.

Public city structures include, but is not limited to:

The Marktplatz
All roads and objects on those roads
The City wall
The Rathaus

Any alteration project that requires a budget from the RA is encouraged to be started only after the budget is approved. While the Guild may commence with projects before RA approval for a budget, it should be cognizant that a budget for the project may not be approved.

B. What may not be altered

No structure on privately-owned land that abides by its covenant may be altered by the guild. No modifications may significantly alter the theme and layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim.

C. Definition of “layout”

In this document, “layout” is taken to mean the arrangement of city streets, bridges, walls, buildings, and other structures. It also includes the rough size and shape of these structures.

D. Relation to NL 3-10 (Construction Authority Act)

This bill supercedes NL 3-10. NL 3-10 will be considered void upon enactment of this bill.

1. Notes

A. Why this bill is needed

There has been recent confusion on the interpretation of NL 3-10 (Construction Authority Act). Thus, there is a need for a clear document on what may and may not be altered by the Guild. There is also need for a fresh authorization to the Guild, so it can move forward on city alterations with a clear mandate.

B. What this bill is not

This bill does not give any opinion on whether recent Guild actions are legal under NL 3-10 or not.

passed as amended 3 May 2006

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NL 4-21 Public Building Deletion Act

The Guild must seek RA approval to delete a city building on public land if the Guild intends not to replace that building within 30 days.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Made Archaic by RA 25-01-2020

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NL 4-23 Public Property Protection Act

To protect the consistency, quality, and historical value of
structures on shared public land owned by citizens, the Guild is
required to seek approval after a moratorium for all Modifications
(creation, deletion, replacement, or modification) to any Objects
(objects, scripts, textures, or terrain) sitting on public land which have been purchased by the city. The moratorium will be 10 days long During the moratorium, the proposed
Modifications to the Objects will be offered for review either in
writing (a description), in world (on display), or in forum
(photographs). At the end of the moratorium, the RA will vote on the
Modification to the Object. In the event of competing choices, The Guild will choose between the competing proposals, with that choice subject to RA ratification

Philosophy

The philosophy behind this law is that it seeks to protect the
consistency, quality, and historical value of the city’s public space
and places authority for its maintenance in the hands of those who pay
for it, the citizens. Because irrevocable changes can be made so
quickly, the moratorium and approval process provides citizens
protection against rapid and potentially undesirable change.
Additionally, the moratorium can be used to display several competing
Objects to better involve citizens in the maintenance of public land.

passed as amended 12 May 2006

Made Archaic by the RA 11-Feb-2020

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NL 4-25 RA Vacancy Act

In the event of an RA vacancy where a faction’s list is exhausted, the faction leader may appoint to the seat any member of the faction.

passed 25 May 2006

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NL 5-1 Flag Act

The city of Neufreistadt shall adopt as its flag a black and white owl on a divided field of blue and white
This adoption shall be contigent on the securing of appropriate IP rights
The PIO is directed to develop a seal, logo, and icon based on the flag design
Funds for IP acquisition shall be taken from the stage one promotion line item in the existing budget

passed 5 August 2006

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NL 5-4 Franchulate Act

Preamble

This bill revises and expands Bill 5-3, defining procedures for applications for franchulates, criteria for acceptance, and providing citizenship for the franchulate owners. This bill does not provide for franchulate applications directly by groups as citizenship is granted on an individual basis. This bill, however, doesn’t exclude the possibility that the members of a group join the CDS by each applying individually for franchulates, and – after the processes completed – joining their lands under the Group Ownership Act.

A. Definition

1. Franchulates are parcels of mainland land held by an individual that become territories administered by the codes, constitution and TOS of the CDS.

B. Conditions

1. In order to establish a franchulate, ownership of the parcel will be transferred to the Estate Owner of the CDS. The former parcel owner become leaser of CDS territory land, for which they will pay a monthly fee, before the 21st of each month.
2. The monthly fee will be assessed using one of two options depending on which best serves the CDS and the franchulate:
  1. A mainland global franchulate m2 rate;
  2. A LL tier proportion rate
3. The same rate will be applied to all franchulate parcels.
4. The rate calculation is determined by the Executive branch of CDS, then being subjected to approval by the RA.
5. The rate can be changed only when it serves the interests of the CDS and of the franchulate holders. Any change will take effect on the following month. The Executive branch is required to inform the public about any changes to the rate, as well of the current rate at any time.
6. The Executive Branch of the CDS can delay a franchulate application till when/if the Estate Owner’s tier allowance allows a mutually beneficial arrangement.
7. The RA can determine, through a bill to the effect, that all applicants to a franchulate process deposit an escrow in the Bank of the CDS, the value of which shall be rated per m2 and determined in the same bill.
8. The covenants valid on the private islands of the CDS do not apply to the franchulate parcels, and therefore no previous building or structure present shall be deleted.

C. Applicability

1. An individual who wishes to establish a franchulate on their mainland parcels must apply to the Executive branch of the CDS for applicability.
2. In this application, the holder of the parcel or parcels must declare: the total area to be franchulated, the group to which it will be assigned, and the charter of the group.
3. Applicability is defined doubly:
  1. Area criteria: The total area of a franchulate parcel or parcels must not be inferior to the basic unit of land for citizenship in the CDS islands.
  2. Compliance criteria: the charter of the group must comply to the codes, Constitution and ToS of the CDS.
4. The Executive branch will evaluate each application within 30 days according to the criteria stated above.
5. The decision of the executive may be reversed by the RA if there are doubts about the applicant’s ability to fulfill the requirements. The applicant can appeal any rejection to the courts or the Scientific Council depending on the reasons for rejection.

D. Franchulate Process

1. Upon clearance of applicability, the holder of the parcel will deposit an escrow in the bank of the CDS, if the RA has established an escrow requirement.
2. A Franchise License will be notarised with the Notary of the CDS, and this License must contain: identification of the parcel and of the holder, identification of the group to which it is set to, and the charter of that group. Any modifications to the charter or to the group to which the franchulate is set must be approved.
3. The Estate Owner of the CDS, by request of the Executive branch, will proceed to buy the franchulate parcel from its holders and manage it according to current CDS rules.

E. Citizenship, Rights and Duties

The joining of a mainland parcel to the CDS under the Franchulate process mandates, from its holder, the acceptance, validity and upholding of the laws, constitution and TOS of the CDS in the parcels.
All rights and duties of citizenship apply to the citizens holders of franchulates, and no distinction shall be made by the CDS between them and citizens residing in the private islands in the CDS territory.
For electoral processes, the citizens holding any franchulate parcel will have the electoral address set in that parcel. If more than one distinct parcel franchulate by same citizen, they must notarise their choice of electoral address in the corresponding Franchise License.

passed 12 September 2006
amended 14 October 2006

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NL 5-8 Covenant Revision Act

Replace the existing CC&R with the following

This document specifies the restrictions placed on land use in the CDS. It can be amended by legislative action. The executive shall have the power to grant waivers of these regulations in respect of a particular structure or other land-use project, in respect of a particular plot as long the build corresponds to the original description in waiver grant. Once granted, the executive may not revoke waivers. The RA may override said waivers via appropriate legislation.

CDS wide covenants

The following provisions apply to all CDS parcels:

All structures are subject to review
No terraforming is permitted
No SL or RL commercial pornography is permitted
At most 1 script per 100 m^2 of land is permitted.
Scripts which use llListen (voice command) are only permitted, if they listen only after a touch and then deactivate after a certain period of time.
Scripts which spy on residents are not permitted.
Bounce script are not permitted.
Scripts which create autonomous wandering objects are not permitted.
Particles can only be used in effects that have real-world analogies, such as lights, smoke, and fire.
Particles should be set no higher than 10 particles per second.
Scripts, particles, and scripts attached to avatars are unregulated.
Subletting is not permitted
No skyboxes are permitted below 512 m in altitude
No default wood textured prims are to be left in place longer than 24 hours

Neufreistadt Sim-Wide Covenants

The following provisions apply to all land in the Neufreistadt sim:

All buildings must be physically plausible
No outdoor hot tubs are permitted
The maximum height of buildings is 20m
Clubs are not permitted
No floating, particle emitting, or rotating signs are permitted

Neufreistadt Zone Specific Covenants

The Neufreistadt sim is divided into three zones, zone P (lots adjacent to the Marketplatz),zone I (other lots inside the city walls) and zone O (lots outside the city walls)

Zone O

All buildings must be set back from the lot edge a minimum of four meters
Land must have a minimum of four trees per 512 m2.
Zone O parcels are non-commercial
No person may hold more than 4096 m2 in zone O

Zone I

All buildings must be consistent with a Medieval Germanic style
All buildings must have functioning doors
All structures must be placed immediately adjacent to a street or connect to it via a path
Commercial activity is permitted
No person may hold more than 1024 m2 in zone I
No person may hold more than two lots in zone I

All parcels in Zone I must have on them a building that comprises a house and/or shop.

Zone P

Parcels in Zone P are also subject to all Zone I provisions with the exception of the door requirement User Menu

All structures must have an entrance facing the Platz

The primary purpose of the parcel is commercial, either goods or services. The ground floor, at least, must be devoted to commercial purpose. The upstairs may be residential. The owner may apply for free “rental” of the Platz area in front of their parcel for the purpose of moveable objects… tables, chairs, vendors. The Executive Branch reserves the right to arrange such objects consistent with the free flow of traffic through the Platz; and removal of the objects for various events (such as the regular Sunday flea market).
The owner is expected to devote substantial effort to the growth of their business at this location. We expect you to make money. A city approved vendor may be required so as to track the success of this. Some form of money or dwell tracking may be performed, and there may be a criteria permitting continuance. Should the owner fail to achieve a success commensurate with the goals of the City for its Platz, the City may exercise the right of eminent domain and “Reclaim” the parcel at fair cost.
The owner is required to take care to maintain the theme of Neufreistadt. Because this location is the Platz, additional oversight will apply. A compliance committee of the Guild reserves the right to prohibit signage, objects, or goods for sale which it feels contrary to the intentions of the City with regard to the Platz, a decision which is appealable to the SC.

Colonia Nova Specific Covenants

Colonia Nova Sim-Wide? Covenants

The following provisions apply to all parcels in the Colonia Nova Sim:

All buildings under the 512 m high mark must be physically plausible
No outdoor hot tubs are permitted
Clubs are not permitted
No floating, particle emitting, or rotating signs are permitted
Property restrictions:
A person may not hold a combined total of more than 4096m2 and two lots in the four zones ELRB
A person may not hold more than 2 lots in zone C, or more than 1024m2 in that zone.
A person may not hold more than 128m2 in Zone S.

Colonia Nova Zone Specific Covenants:

Zone B (Skybox Quarter)

Zone L (South Riverfront)

Zone R (Villa Quarter)

Location: All plots named R.XX
Function: Residential only
Appearance: strictly consistent with Classical Roman style as expressed in a rural environment (villa typology)
Executive approval needed: for all new structures and modifying of the exterior of the existing ones.

Commercial activity is prohibited
Structures may be no taller than 20m
Buildings must preserve a distance not inferior to 5 meters to neighbouring plots unless neighbours file an agreement with the CDS notary that theyspecifically wish to make their structures contiguous.
There must exist a minimum of 3 trees per 512m2 of plot area.

Zone C (Inner City)

Location: All plots named C.XX
Function: Commercial and Residential
Appearance: strictly consistent with Classical Roman style as expressed in an urban environment (insula typology)
Executive approval needed: for all new structures and modifying of the exterior of the existing ones.

All structures must be placed immediately adjacent to a street
Structures are owned and placed by the city to give the centre a dense Roman feel. Structures may not be replaced or moved regardless of ownership without prior consent.

Zone S (Stalls)

Location: all plots named S.XX
Function: Commercial only
Appearance: strictly consistent with Classical Roman style as expressed in an urban environment (stall typology)
Executive approval needed: for all new structures and modifying of the exterior of the existing ones.

All structures must be placed immediately adjacent to a street
Structures are owned and placed by the city to give the centre a dense Roman feel. Structures may not be replaced or moved regardless of ownership without prior consent.

Zone T (Special buildings)

Location: Temples, Thermae, Theatre
Function: Commercial only
Appearance: exterior predefined and not modifiable. Interior modifiable subject to Executive approval.

Structures are owned and placed by the city to give the roman ambience. Structures may not be replaced or moved regardless of ownership without prior consent.

Zone E (Cardo Plots)

Location: all plots named E.XX
Function: Commercial and Residential
Appearance: strictly consistent with Classical Roman style (domus typology)
Executive approval needed: for all new structures and modifying of the exterior of the existing ones.

Commercial Activity must exist in ground level
Must be adjacent to the Cardo.
In case of modifying of the exterior appearance, the new design must preserve the colonnade.
Structures must be no taller than 20 metres.

Zone L (South Riverfront Plots)

Location: all plots named L.XX
Function: Residential only
Appearance: no predefined appearance set

Commercial activity is prohibited
Structures may be no taller than 20m
Buildings must preserve a distance not inferior to 5 meters to neighbouring plots unless neighbours file an agreement with the CDS notary that they specifically wish to make their structures contiguous.
There must exist a minimum of 3 trees per 512m2 of plot area.

Zone B (Skybox Plots)

Location: all plots named B.XX
Function: Commercial and Residential
Appearance: no predefined appearance set

Structures may be no taller than 30 meters
Buildings must preserve a distance not inferior to 5 meters to neighbouring plots unless neighbours file an agreement with the CDS notary that they specifically wish to make their structures contiguous.
There must exist a minimum of 3 trees per 512m2 of plot area.
Skyboxes may be built at a height not inferior to 512 m2

Building Typologies:

Villa
A villa is a building that comprises a perystilum, or enclosed pateo, with a perimeter lined with columns or pillars.
Insula
An insula is a building of mixed commercial and residential function. The ground level must open broadly to the street and be suitable for a commercial space. insulas must develop vertically in more than one floor.
Stall
A stall is a commercial open space whose boundary to the street is a colonnade.
Domus
A domus is a building that has mixed commercial and residential function. The ground level must open broadly to the street through an unifying collonade and be suitable for a commercial space. Domus must comprise also a perystilum.

All the typologies must be built in pre-industrial materials, namely:

structural elements: stone and terracota
roofing elements: terracota
flooring elements: terracota, stone, mosaic. Wood in upper floorings.
wall elements: stone, terracota, stucco, frescoed stucco.
door and window elements: wood, metals (iron, brass). Glass is acceptable in small panes.
decorative elements: statues can be stone, brass or chrysoelephantine (ivory and gold details). Other elements must be rendered in any of the above materials.

passed 23 September 2006
amended 28 October 2006

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NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act (amended by NL 7-7)

NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act – amended by NL 7-7 21 October 2007

This extends the option of land ownership in Neufreistadt to couples and groups of citizens. Among others, this allows joint ownership of land by people in committed relationships, social, educational, and religious organizations.

Plots of land in Neufreistadt may be owned by couples or groups of citizens. All members must be citizens before joining the group.
Residents of SL receive citizenship in the CDS by owning land in one of the territories administered by the CDS, and by agreeing to comply with the laws and covenants of the community. The citizen, who shall be a RL person presenting themself as a single SL avatar, may hold land either through individual ownership (in which their name is displayed on the “About Land” page of their parcel), or through membership in a group (in which the group name is displayed as “owner” on the “About Land” page of their parcel). The group shall own, compliant with the covenants regarding maximum ownership by any single citizen, at least 128 sq meters of land for each individual whose citizenship is qualified by that land.
Furthermore, each citizen shall be required to pay their monthly fee for land ownership, in person, each month, at the sim location established for this purpose. Individual owners shall pay the entire cost of their parcels in this manner. Group members shall allocate among themselves each member’s share of the fee for land owned by their group, with the minimum amount of L$100 allocated to any one person. A group representative shall provide to the Treasurer, in a timely fashion, the list of citizen members, and their respective allocations.
In the course of time, should it happen that an individual does not pay their monthly fee (according to schedules established by the Chancellor and the Treasurer), that person shall be liable to lose their citizenship. Should that citizen be a citizen by virtue of membership in a land owning group, other group members will NOT risk losing their parcel and thus their citizenship. Rather, at the point that the Chancellor/Treasurer shall determine that person to be delinquent, and thus ineligible for further citizenship, the remaining members of that group shall be required to re-allocate their monthly amounts in order that 100% of the monthly fee be paid. If the resulting reduction in membership should cause the group to exceed its maximum land-owning allowance (as per the covenants), the group will be required to divest excess land.
If the citizen leaves a land holding group they have two months to reestablish their holdings to meet the above criteria.

passed October 7, 2006 and amended by NL 7-7 21 October 2007

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NL 5-10 Microplot Termination Act

Part of the purpose in establishing the tiny plot called microplots was to allow participation in the Neufreistadt community by mainland businesses. In this function they have had little success. An important aspect of Neufreistadt citizenship is establishing a home or business and micropolots are too small for any practical building.

1. Microplots should no longer be sold by Neufreistadt or by citizens.
2. The city will offer to buy back all microplots at the purchase price and will retake possession of all microplots as they become vacant.
3. In future, the CDS will sell no plot less than 128 m 2 in size.
4. This bill supersedes the prior Microplot authorization bill.

passed October 7, 2006

Made Archaic by RA 25-01-2020

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NL 5-15 Citizen Information Act

The avatar names of CDS citizens shall be considered public information. The Estate Owner shall make this information available both in world and via the world wide web. This information will be updated at least once per calendar month.

passed 8 December 2006
amended 25 March 2007
repealed Feb 9, 2019

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NL 5-18 Faction Membership Reporting Act

Faction leaders are required to submit a complete list of faction members to the Chancellor and the Dean of the Scientific Council no later than 3 days before the start of the RA election period.

passed 6 January 2007

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NL 6-4 Sale of Undeveloped Area Act

Enacted in amended form:

Parcels in the ‘undeveloped area’ (formerly known as ‘Altenburg’ area) should be redeveloped for sale with one half reserved for prospective citizens with a maximum of one per person. This act will expire when parcels from the third CDS sim go on sale to the general public.

Rationale: To ensure better availability of parcels to prospective citizens during the months that the third sim is not officially open yet and parcels are likely to become increasingly rare. Feel free to adjust the text.

(For the record, the representatives in favor were: Mizou Vavoom, Murakami, Vale, Soothsayer. Desmoulins was absent.)

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NL 7-4 Re-establish the Citizenship Commission Act

Bill to Re-establish the Citizenship Commission

Pursuant to the procedures set forth in NL 5-21, this Act re-establishes the citizenship commission.
The Commission is charged with considering how citizenship should be defined in the CDS.
The Commission will hold a full and participatory set of discussions inworld and on the CDS forums starting on 13 August and finishing on 17 September 2007.
The Commission will present a report to the RA within a week of the completion of the Commission’s work with recommendations (and draft legislation if needed).
The Commission will be chaired by Bromo Ivory.
Citizens wishing to serve on the Citizenship Commission should make themselves know to Bromo Ivory by 13 August.>Pursuant to the procedures set forth in NL 5-21, this Act re-establishes the citizenship commission.
The Commission is charged with considering how citizenship should be defined in the CDS.
The Commission will hold a full and participatory set of discussions inworld and on the CDS forums starting on 13 August and finishing on 17 September 2007.
The Commission will present a report to the RA within a week of the completion of the Commission’s work with recommendations (and draft legislation if needed).
The Commission will be chaired by Bromo Ivory.
Citizens wishing to serve on the Citizenship Commission should make themselves know to Bromo Ivory by 13 August.

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NL 7-5 Electoral Reform Amendment Act

Amend the Constitution to read:

Article I, Section 2 – The Representative Assembly Body: Representative seats are chosen by means of the Sainte-Laguë? method using scores generated by Borda-count ranked votes cast by citizens. There will also be the option to not rank a faction; this will act the same way as a last place vote in the Borda count. The citizens will also rank the list of candidates from their first pick faction to serve on the RA.; The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats.; Each faction controls their seats and may replace members or fill seats due to vacancies as they see fit. Each seat receives a single vote.; The Representative Assembly shall serve for a term of six months. New RAs shall take office on 1 February and 1 August. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new RAs taking office. In the event of a server outage or unforseen technical issue which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the SC has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
Article IV, Section 2 – The Faction Body: All faction members must be citizens of the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators and must join a special SL group created for the sole purpose of running for seats in the RA. No citizen is required to be part of a faction and cannot be a member of more than one faction at the same time.; The minimum faction size is equal to three. No later than 15 days prior to the opening of the polls, faction members will report to the SC Dean their willingness or unwillingness to serve in the RA. If there are no declared candidates fifteen (15) days before and election, that faction will be considered a non-election faction and not be placed on the ballot for that term. Based on the ranking form the general election, the faction members to be elected to the RA will selected based on the descending order of the number of points received based on the Borda-count of the rankings. The members will be selected until all available seats for the party are filled. If a member retires from the RA, a member with the next highest ranking in the same faction is takes a seat on the RA.

In the event that a faction, via resignation or impeachment, exhausts its list of eligible RA members drawn up at the previous general election during the course of an RA term:

If the faction no longer meets the constitutional requirements or if no members of the faction are willing to serve, there shall be a special election to fill, for the remainder of the term, the seats left vacant.
If the faction the list of which is exhausted still meets constitutional requirements as spelled out in Article V and there are members of that faction, who did not stand in the previous general election, willing to fill the vacated seats, members of the affected faction shall rank those candidates to fill the vacated seats as they do in the general election.

Underlined above added as amended May 6, 2014.

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NL 7-7 Amendment to NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act

Amendment to NL5-9 Group Land Ownership Act

Replace 2 with the following and renumber:

Residents of SL receive citizenship in the CDS by owning land in one of the territories administered by the CDS, and by agreeing to comply with the laws and covenants of the community. The citizen, who shall be a RL person presenting themself as a single SL avatar, may hold land either through individual ownership (in which their name is displayed on the “About Land” page of their parcel), or through membership in a group (in which the group name is displayed as “owner” on the “About Land” page of their parcel). The group shall own, compliant with the covenants regarding maximum ownership by any single citizen, at least 128 sq meters of land for each individual whose citizenship is qualified by that land.

Furthermore, each citizen shall be required to pay their monthly fee for land ownership, in person, each month, at the sim location established for this purpose. Individual owners shall pay the entire cost of their parcels in this manner. Group members shall allocate among themselves each member’s share of the fee for land owned by their group, with the minimum amount of L$100 allocated to any one person. A group representative shall provide to the Treasurer, in a timely fashion, the list of citizen members, and their respective allocations.

In the course of time, should it happen that an individual does not pay their monthly fee (according to schedules established by the Chancellor and the Treasurer), that person shall be liable to lose their citizenship. Should that citizen be a citizen by virtue of membership in a land owning group, other group members will NOT risk losing their parcel and thus their citizenship. Rather, at the point that the Chancellor/Treasurer shall determine that person to be delinquent, and thus ineligible for further citizenship, the remaining members of that group shall be required to re-allocate their monthly amounts in order that 100% of the monthly fee be paid. If the resulting reduction in membership should cause the group to exceed its maximum land-owning allowance (as per the covenants), the group will be required to divest excess land.

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NL 7-8 Teleportation Improvement Act

The Teleportation Improvement Bill

Preamble

Direct teleportation and landmarking of specific locations dedicated to business, commerce and entertainment are vital for the success of such enterprises.
As more such businesses are being set up in Colonia Nova, and regular entertainment events are being held, the need for such teleportation facilities has become more acute and more citizens are demanding that they be made available.

Provisions

During a trial period of three months, from October 15, 2007 to January 15, 2008, the Colonia Nova teleportation system shall be set up as follows:
- All teleportations resulting from searches on the LL search or map systems shall lead to the CN Forum Central TP point;
- Individuals visiting CN shall be able to set direct landmarks to any specific location in the sim, and exact landmarks of specific locations shall be allowed to be created and distributed for business, commercial and entertainment purposes.
At the end of this trial period, a survey shall be taken of how CN residents accommodated themselves to this change and a decision made whether the trial teleportation system shall be implemented on a permanent basis –and if so, in which CDS sims.

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NL 8-1 Commerce Commission Act

Commerce Commission Bill

This Act establishes a Commerce Commission (CC) in accordance with NL 5-12, the Citizen Involvement Act.
The CC will be chaired by MT Lundquist. The CC is charged with gathering input with the aim of revitalising the shopping areas of our sims and making the CDS a vibrant centre of commerce in Second Life with a reputation for innovation and quality.
The CC will
- a) consider how to empower a public servant (or group of citizens) to promote commerce in the CDS —
  
  Supporting the existing shop owners (by having the CDS launch promotional events and do some advertising);Attracting new content creators willing to open a shop in the CDS; sponsoring events to attract customers;Financing a promotional campaign grid-wide to let the SL residents know that the CDS is a shopping destination for high quality products (and services).
- b) consider how non-functioning or empty offices and shops in commercial areas can be prevented from continually occupying space where new commercial initiatives could prosper instead (Pursuant of the existing NFS covenant zone P rule (2) ).
- c) determine the cost of activities recommended by the commission and provide budget recommendations to the RA and budget priorities to the RA for use in implementing the commission’s recommendations.
The CC Chair will seek input via forum discussions and at least two inworld meetings (preferably at times convenient for CDS residents in different RL time zones).
The Chair of the Commission shall report to the RA on March 9 and shall inform the RA of the status of the commission’s work, make recommendations based on that work, and provide, if possible, a draft final report of conclusions the commission has reached. At that time, the RA shall either accept the final report and dissolve the commission; send the report back to the commission with recommendations and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted or resubmitted; or extend the term of service for the commission and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted.
The CC Chair will summarise the results of the Commission into a report to the RA and prepare any proposals for legislation (if needed) to enact the recommendations by 15 April.
The RA will consider the recommendations of the CC, including any proposals for legislation, by the end of April.
For purpose of keeping the CDS code of law organized and cleaned up: After the RA has considered the Commission’s work or at the end of the RA’s term, this act can be considered a finished historical event and marked appropriately.

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NL 9-1 Commercial Development Act

Commercial Development Act

– The CDS should devote sufficient resources to promote commercial
development, including developing a promotion plan and materials,
and a recognized brand for CDS business.

– The space available for commercial projects should include retail
as well as services, consulting, or games or performance businesses.
Providing space for these other businesses may be attractive avenues
of development for the CDS.

– The CDS should use some of its resources to support opportunities
for new business development by its citizens.

Therefore:

1. COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY means the sale or offering to the public
of virtual goods, services, consulting, games or performances.

[section 2 dropped]

3. COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. The Chancellor is requested to
develop a promotional plan for substantial commercial activity within CDS
with the help of a experienced business consultant. The Chancellor must
secure approval from the RA to contract or commit for any consulting
payment in excess of L$25,000 for this purpose. The final report
shall be posted publicly no later than 15 November 2008. The report
should address options for incentives, land prices, land uses and programs
to promote commerce.

4. COMMERCIAL LAND SET ASIDE. The CDS will set aside not less than 15%
of all commercial plots that it owns (either through abandonment or new
development) for new business development by CDS citizens, in the following
manner.

a. Land under this program would be allocated by competition. Citizens
would file a business description with the Chancellor who would set
procedures for evaluating that plan in a non-partisan way.

b. Citizens winning the competition for specific plots would have the
right to lease those plots for a period of six months at 50% of the
CDS stated tier rate without having to purchase the plot. Note that this
lease does not, by itself, satisfy the requirements for citizenship.

c. At the end of the lease the citizen would have the right to purchase
the plot. No business may lease land under this program more than once.

d. If the chancellor fails to find a qualified citizen interested in leasing
a plot under this program within three months of its becoming available,
the plot may be released for sale.

e. This provision shall be in effect until the RA meeting following the receipt of the above consultative report.

5. RENT SURCHARGE REPEAL. The provisions of the 8th RA’s Commerce
bill providing for rent surcharges on commercial property are hereby repealed.
Re-examination of legal and other incentives for substantial commercial activity
is expected after the earlier of 15 November 2008 or receipt of the above
consultative report.

6. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. No CDS Chamber of Commerce or similar
merchants group may exercise any designated advisory powers in CDS matters
until it is operating under an NGO charter approved by the RA.

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CDSL 13-02 A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow

RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.

The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.

The RA requests the Chancellor to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.

The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.

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CDSL 13-06 Teleportation Improvement Act

Preamble

1. Direct teleportation and landmarking of specific locations dedicated to business, commerce and entertainment are vital for the success of such enterprises.

2. Neufreistadt has never had direct teleportation. It is the only sim in the CDS that does not have this convenience for its citizens. Citizens are asking that direct teleportation be made available at least on a trial basis.

Provisions

3. During a trial period of three months, from September 15, 2010 to December 15, 2010 the Neufreistadt teleportation system shall be set up as follows:

a. All teleportations resulting from searches on the LL search or map systems shall lead to the Neufreistadt Marktplatz Central TP point;
b. Individuals visiting NFS shall be able to set direct landmarks to any specific location in the sim, and exact landmarks of specific locations shall be allowed to be created and distributed for business, commercial and entertainment purposes.

4. At the end of this trial period, a survey shall be taken of how NFS residents accommodated themselves to this change and a decision made whether the trial teleportation system shall be implemented on a permanent basis. The commerce commission will make a recommendation to the RA in December 2010 regarding the results.

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CDSL 13-08 Delete Article IV, section 4 of the Constitution

Title contains the entire text of this law.

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CDSL 13-10 Citizenship Bill

Preamble

The CDS Constitution makes a clear link between citizenship and land. In respect of this principle, this bill describes the possible methods of attaining citizenship in CDS and their implementation.

1. The following methods to attain citizenship in CDS are possible:

a. Land ownership (landowner citizen)
b. Sponsorship of landmarks, parks or common lands will, designated as ‘sponsored locations’ (sponsor citizen)
c. Group (group-owned parcel citizen)

2. All rules regarding tier payment and the right to vote or te be candidate for an official position apply on landowner citizen as well as on sponsor citizen and on group-owned parcel citizen.

3. The smallest size a sponsored location or a part of a group-owned parcel is 256 mq. There is no minimum for parcels owned by a single owner.

4. The smallest tier for sponsorship and group citizenship is 250 L$.

5. The landowner citizen has the right to build in the parcel. The sponsor citizen has no right on the parcel. The rights of a group-owned parcel citizen on the parcel is defined in the group charter.

6. Each citizen has a tier box and appears in the list of citizen.

7. The sponsored locations are defined by the executive and accepted by the RA. They are listed in the masterplan of each sim. The names of the sponsors are listed on the location.

8. The owner of the group and the avatar requesting citizenship notify the CDS Treasurer of the desire for a group citizenship, and request a tier box be assigned on one of the parcels of the group. The owner of the group pays the difference between the fees paid by the group-owned parcelcitizen from his /her group and the official tier.

9. A policy is made by the Executive to fix every detail of citizenship management. The Executive is responsible to inform all poeple who are concerned by the adoption of this bill.

10. The various possibilities to attain citizenship are described in the different information and communication channels and especially in the portal and in the in-world kiosks.

11. The act NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act is abrogated.

12. The avatars who are citizen by payjng a fee of 100 L$ stay citizen for 2 entire terms after the adoption of the current law. After this period, the Treasurer will offer them a sponsored location.

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CDSL 14-01 Repeal of 9-3 Land Sales Improvement Act

NL 9-3 Land Sales Improvement Act is repealed.

Passed 10 April 2011

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CDSL 15-05 and 15-06 Constitutional Amendments Regarding the Election Process of the 16th Term

Add to Article I, Section 1: “Elections for the 16th RA will be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on 19 November 2011.”

Add to Article V, Section 3: “No citizen shall be eligible to vote in the election for the 16th RA and Chancellor unless he or she has been a citizen since 15 October 2011.”

Passed 13 November 2011

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CDSL 16-01 Constitutional Amendment

Add the word “general” before the word “election” in the amendment to Art V, Section 3.

Passed 7 January 2012

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CDSL 16-02 New Sim Competition Act

1. The Executive shall set aside funds to purchase a new sim but shall not purchase the sim until directed by the RA.
2. The New Sim shall be Bavarian-themed, as is Neufreistadt. There shall be a design competition for specific Sim design. Citizens who wish to submit a plan shall submit a plan to the RA. Such plans shall be submitted by March 31, 2012,
3. The RA shall then consider the plans and vote on them. The plan that receives the most support shall be implemented by the Executive, who shall purchase a Sim and coordinate with the New Guild for that purpose.

Passed 3 March 2012

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CDSL 16-06 Repeal of 13-07 Term Limits Act

CDSL 13-07 is repealed.

Passed 12 May 2012

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CDSL 21-02 and NL 8-4 Ninety Day Moratorium Act

Enacted 16 October 2014

To place a moratorium on NL 8-4 for 90 days, and that a commission be established to review both NL 8-4 and the Budget and accountability Act to come up with recommendations for the 22nd RA to consider.

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CDSL 21-06 Act Instructing the EO to sell Abandoned Land

Enacted 26 October 2014

RA instructs the Estate Owner to sell any abandoned land. This act will have a sunset clause, i.e. until we have a chancellor again.

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CDS Timeline (3)

CDS Territory Map November 2007

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30 July 2004 – Haney Linden Proposal

Apply for free land in the snow sims
Haney Linden
Senior Member
Join date: 3 Oct 2002
Posts: 990
07-30-2004 18:28
In order to preserve and enhance the snow sims, Linden is looking for groups who would like to receive a lease on land in the snow sims in exchange for covering the land fees and staying in the snow theme. There is no upfront cost for the land but the lease is for a limited duration. Please read this thread and post your interest in land to the thread or send an email to [email]land@lindenlab.com[/email].

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2004 – 2005 Anzere

In the beginning there was Anzere …

Anzere was the sim for Neualtenburg Projekt from August 2004 to May 2005.

Around August 2004, Linden Lab was worried about the way snow sims were “misused”–residents simply ignored the “theme” and built whatever they wanted–even outdoor swimming pools. Very quickly, there was no real difference between a snow sim and a tropical sim in terms of building, and it was too late to “enforce” new rules.
Instead, LL proposed a “contest for the preservation of the snow sims”, where part of Anzere (1/2 sim–the rest would be kept as “protected land”) would be leased for 4 months–but people would need to gather up tier to support it) for the best project who presented a thematic build and a means to mantain it.

The Neualtenburg Projekt, lead by Ulrika Zugzwang, was the winner of the contest, proposing to recreate a medieval Bavarian village (based upon the RL town of Rothenburg) with some post-modern adaptations.

As a means for mantaining the village, an elected government would be in charge of keeping it operational, changing and adapting the structures, holding events, promoting a financially sound operation (where the income generated by the city would be used to pay for tier), and generally keeping the city operational even when some of the residents left Second Life by electing new people for the government–unlike groups based on selected individuals, which usually fall apart when the “leader” of the project leaves SL.

This project has always been a source of discussion and argument since it’s a counterpoint to the “corporatist oligarchy” mantained by the Lindens on the mainland sims. In Neualtenburg, residents elect their own governments, which mantain order as they see fit–there are rules, organization, planning, discussing, and, of course, enforcement of certain standards.

After the lease expired, Neualtenburg moved to its own sim, currently renamed to Neufreistadt.
Copied from Anzere on Wikia

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New Guild Documents (2)

Board Meeting Proceedings

Guild Board meetings:

– Guild Board meetings will only happen with 3 members present at least – Faculty and/or Board. When a meeting empties to less than 3 members, meeting is automatically adjourned.
– Guild Board meetings have an appointed hour to start. After 30 minutes, if less than 3 members present, meeting is automatically adjourned.

Chairing of the Board meeting:

– Board meetings are chaired by the Secretary of the Board.
– In the impossibility of the Secretary chairing, Faculty Chair will chair instead.
– If both can’t chair, meeting won’t happen and is automatically adjourned to next week. In this case, and unless by a major cause, an announcement must be made in the CDS channel with at least 3 hour notice.

Duration of the Board meeting and discussions:

– Sec of the Board and Fac Chair can determine the duration of the Board meeting, and can also allot time for discussion of the points in agenda.

Agenda of Board Meetings

– Any Guild member can propose items for agenda for Board Meeting by posting a request for discussion in the Guild forum. Agenda points will be lined in as they appear, though Sec or Chair can change the order of agenda to help organise discussion, with approval of the majority of present.

Votes in Board Meetings

– For a vote, at least 5 guild members must be present, Faculty and/or Board.
– Sec and Chair can propose any point for vot.
– Guild members must propose a motion for vote. If seconded, then a vote will necessarily proceed.
– When a vote is required, Sec or Chair can request an Assistant to help recording the motions and votes.
– In meetings where a vote takes place, a summary of the motions and vote counts must be published in the forums beside the usual Meeting transcript.

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The New Guild Charter

The New Guild Charter
Rationale:

. Considering that the New Guild has considerably expanded its activities since its creation;

. Considering that at the present moment there are being considered changes to the development of the CDS territory, and that these changes will require that the NG both exerts a consulting/certification role, and also a contractor role;

. Considering that those two functions can be attributed to both bodies of the NG (Faculty and Board), if there is a clearer distinction between the two, and the implementation of checks and balances between the two;

. Considering that the amount and diversity of work involved demand a more structured organization than the current one, including the separation of tasks and the creation of new functions and corresponding departments inside the Guild;

We therefore propose the following wording for the New Guild Charter, to be approved at three levels:

1. Faculty level

2. Board level

3. RA level, upon which this Charter shall replace the old one and be made effective immediate

——

1.Definition

1.The New Guild (NG) is a public-chartered, non-profit, non-partisan, Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) that is open to all citizens of the CDS.

2.Mission

1.To organize, plan, and execute the construction of new high-quality content including the development of territory and sims, build sim infrastructure and public buildings. To execute work contracted by the CDS to its specifications consistent with the legislation, master plan, and other regulations of the CDS.To also cooperate in projects with other entities.
2.To provide continuing hands-on education in the creation of content, as well in related areas. This education shall be free to all citizens, and may be made available to non-citizens willing to pay tuition.
3.To provide certification in content-creation skills to the CDS Citizens.
4.To provide technical advice and services to the office of the Chancellor and the RA as needed to plan, maintain and develop the CDS regions.
5.To acquire and manage resources needed by New Guild volunteers for building and design such as sandbox areas and prim banks. To set rules for the use of these resources.

3.Organization

1. The New Guild is governed by two committees: Faculty and Board

2. The Faculty

1.The Faculty is a self-appointed meritocratic body, whose members have shown competence in the development of content and/or providing education.
2.The Faculty is divided in three departments:
* Education Department will design the curriculum for continuing education, and organize a regular cycle of classes/seminars/workshops.
* Certification Department will analyse the artistic and technical skills shown by citizens in their creations and attribute a certification mark.
* Building Approval Committee (BAC) will be a consulting body that will help the Chancellor to pre-approve plans for the private development of sims, as well pre-approve private buildings according to covenants, and help survey the quality of contracted content. The BAC must not be less than two members, and always be an even number. Non-citizen Faculty members cannot belong to the BAC.
3.All three departments will decide and publish their internal procedures.
4.Heads of departments are nominated by the Faculty Chair, with the approval of a simple majority of the Faculty.
5.Heads of department will earn a token monthly salary, when the NG has the financial conditions for that. That token sum shall be part of the Budget and be voted at Board.
6.Members of the Faculty must demonstrate excellence in creation of content and/or the ability and willingness to mentor others who want to develop their skills. Membership is not limited to citizens of the CDS.
7.Membership is done by invitation, the candidates being approved by simple majority of the Faculty in session. Individuals may apply to join the faculty with two faculty sponsors, then being approved by simple majority as stated above.
8.The Faculty will define and publish a process of selection and standards for candidates.
9.The Secretary of the Board is a member of Faculty, but holds no vote. The Secretary of the Board can nevertheless call a meeting of Faculty.
10.The Faculty is lead by the Chair, who serves for 6 months. The Chair is responsible for calling the Faculty meetings, set the agenda, and ask for reports from the departments.
11.Elections must be called with sufficient time for candidates to run for the role of Chair. The Faculty is free to change the date of the election of the Chair.
12.Faculty members are expected to fulfill 10 service hours per each three months, which may be spent in work at any department.
13.Members of Faculty serve for life, unless they resign. They may be removed from office if:
* fail to provide the 10 hours of work per quarter at any department;
* by a 2/3 majority of the Faculty Meeting
14. The Chair of the Faculty can be repelled by a 4/5 majority vote of the Faculty.
15. The following citizens can be members of Faculty, but hold no vote:
* The Secretary of the Board of the New Guild
* The Chancellor of the CDS

3.The Board

1.The Board is the General Assembly of the New Guild.
2.The Board is a loose body which organizes itself in work groups for the contracting of specific projects by the CDS, or for the execution of NG specific projects.
3.The Board of the NG will decide and publish its meeting procedures.
4.The several Work Groups for the NG projects will decide and publish their internal procedures.
5.No citizen can be excluded from the NG, though several roles have conflicts of interest with the Role of Secretary of the Board (see below).
6.All citizen members of the Faculty also belong to the Board.
7.Any citizen can propose a project in the NG scope to the Board of the NG.
1.The Board will not consider any proposal that concerns any issue not directly related to land use, building, or content development, nor will it make any collective statement on issues under consideration by the RA or other branches of the CDS government.
8.Active Guild members (those participating in the departments and in the work groups) have access and are listed in the NG management tool
9.The Board decides by ad-hoc democracy (all citizens present at a Board meeting can vote)
10.The Board has two standing departments:
* Financial Department – manages NG assets and capital, such as tuition fees, contract fees, resources, land, buildings, etc. Plans and executes a term budget. Also pays Guild volunteers their fees in Board projects.
* Administrative/Agent Department – keeps records of all NG decisions, plus negotiates NG Board contracts with the CDS, negotiates fees with volunteers and liaisons the IP release and content archive processes.
11.Both departments will decide and publish their internal procedures.
12.Heads of department will earn a token monthly salary, when the NG has the financial conditions for that. That token sum shall be part of the Budget and be voted at Board.
13.The New Guild Budget must be approved by simple majority by the Board at beginning of each term of office.
14.Officers of both departments are nominated by the Secretary of the Board, with the approval of a simple majority of the Board.
15.An officer can be removed from a Board department with a vote of 2/3 of the Board, the Secretary of Board holding a veto.
16.The Board is chaired by the Secretary of the Board, who serves for 6 months, and whose election must not be delayed for more than 15 days after a CDS general election. Both the Chair of Faculty and the Secretary of the Board in exercise can call the election, with due time for candidates to run to the role.
17.The Secretary of the Board is responsible for organizing the board meetings and keeping due order in them, organize agendas, organize and call work groups and ask reports for all NG Projects, and also ask reports from the two Board Departments.
18.The Secretary of the Board is the spokesperson of the NG for all general matters, being free to call any member of the Board or Faculty for specific information.
19.The Secretary of the Board can be repelled by a 4/5 majority vote of the Board
20.The Faculty may veto a Board vote to remove the Secretary of the Board with 2/3 vote of the Faculty
21.The Board decides and publishes its own internal procedures.
22.The following citizens can not be Secretary of the Board:
* The Chair of the NG Faculty
* The Chancellor of the CDS, and all members of the Executive Branch
* The Members of the RA
* .The Chairs of the SC.

This Guild Charter was approved by the RA of the 7th June 2008

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RA Rules of Procedure (1)

Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure

Agenda

The Leader of the RA (LRA) will determine the proposed agenda for each meeting, and publish it on a notecard and on the forum at least 24 hours before each meeting. It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will prepare the final draft. If the RA membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting.

Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of a maximum of 2 hours, with no less than a 10 minute open discussion time allowed at the end and no less than 10 minutes of administrative time set at the beginning.

Meeting Procedures
- A. [Administrative time first]
  During the administrative time, the LRA shall perform administrative business on the RA agenda (such electing and swearing in a Chancellor and swearing in new members) and shall entertain procedural motions from the RA (such as motions to adjust the order of the agenda, extend or adjust time for debate, or to move a item designated as “noncontroversial” to a “consent agenda” in the next session; or to move an item on the “consent agenda” to the end of the agenda for debate) and shall ask the RA to pass the “consent agenda” without debate.
- B. [Time limits for each agenda item]
  Each item on the agenda shall be allocated a time for debate by the LRA. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 minutes for debate. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation may be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 15 minutes for debate. All members of the RA and all citizens in attendance at the RA shall indicate to the LRA, before the start of the RA session or during the first ten minutes of the session, whether they wish to speak on an item on the agenda, and which side they wish to speak on.
- C. [RA decision on an action item after debate closes]
  Following the allocated time for debate, the RA shall either move to vote on the issue; move for further debate; or move to allow amendments and further debate. If the RA wishes further debate or amendments, no vote shall be held, and the matter shall be tabled until the next session of the RA, at which time the matter shall be considered as a “prior matter of the RA” on the agenda, and shall be considered to be controversial for the purpose of setting time for debate. If the RA has voted to allow amendments, the matter shall be tabled and amendments shall be drafted and submitted to the LRA and posted on the forums at least one day prior to the date on which the LRA is to publish the RA agenda.
Citizen input
Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the “legislative discussion” forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda.

It is suggested that that member be chosen by the submitter as a supporter of the substance of the bill. Posting the content of the bill on the forum is also strongly suggested, so that public opinion can be gathered. It is highly suggested that the bill contain two parts:

(1) A summary of what is proposed, and
(2) a detailed statement of the proposed action and its implications.

The members AND the public need to know the issues on what will be a wide variety of matters, and those persons must not be assumed to have a complete understanding of the issues. I.E. The bill should be an educational document. Please!
Public proceedings
All meetings of the RA will be public, and all citizens of CDS are welcome to attend and participate. During the meeting, any citizen can talk in any point of the agenda after having asked the LRA.

Non-citizens are welcome too, but they should listen only, and not speak. If non-member residents disrupt proceedings, they should be subject to actions which may end in being Teleported Home and Banned from CDS.

RA may, by simple majority vote, enter into a closed session to discuss legal or personnel matters. Although no transcript is kept in closed session, journal entries are kept normally unless the secrecy provision is invoked per Article I of the constitution.

A closed session may be one of four types, to be determined by the RA when the vote to enter closed session:

Members only
Citizens only
Members + invited guests (the LRA determines who is to be invited)
Citizens + invited guests (the LRA determines who is to be invited)
Committees
The LRA can create (or propose for creation) committees of members for the purpose of study and information gathering on proposed topics (bills, agenda items of all sorts). Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions.

Committee members can be non-members of the RA. Each topic that a committe receives for attention must be brought back to the RA for action, even if the recommendation is to drop it.
Public Access to Proposed Bills

A notecard dispensor, or, even just an object containing notecards, will be placed in a convenient place in the meeting premises (and elsewhere, if people wish), for the purpose of disseminating the information needed for the meeting. This dispensor will contain the Agenda, a copy of each proposed Bill, and supporting materials which members wish to offer for the efficient of discussion of a topic.

Published Proceedings
All proceedings will be recorded and published in the forum.
Recording Approved Bills
The RA Archivist shall publish copies of all approved bills on the portal at portal.slcds.info.
Quorum
A quorum for all RA business is equal to a minimum of 50%+ 1 members in attendance. In the absence of a quorum, discussion may be held, but no action can be taken.
7-day vote
Any member who is absent from a meeting can request a 7-day vote if they tell the LRA before the meeting.

Revision Date: March 21, 2010

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Former RA (1)

First to the 14th RA

Provisional Government/1st RA
14 November 2004 — 30 January 2005

Talen Morgan: in charge of the RA

2nd Representative Assembly

February — July 2005

Gwyneth Llewelyn (SDF) – LRA, Faction Leader
Roberta Dalek (SDF)
Sudane Erato (SDF)
Chandra Page (SDF)
Pendari Lorentz (MPP) – Faction Leader
Cristiano Midnight (MPP)
Talen Morgan (MPP)

3rd Representative Assembly
August 2005 — January 2006

LRA Pendari Lorentz (MPP)
Sudane Erato (MPP)
Satchmo Prototype (MPP)
Gwyneth Llewelyn (SDF)
Eugene Pomeray (SDF)

4th Representative Assembly
February — July 2006

LRA Claude Desmoulins (DPU)
Aliasi Stonebender (DPU)
Gwyneth Llewelyn (SDF)
Kendra Bancroft (SDF)
Pendari Lorentz (MPP)

5th Representative Assembly

August 2006 — January 2007

Claude Desmoulins (DPU) – Leader of the Representative Assembly
Jon Seattle (CSDF)
Justice Soothsayer (DPU)
Moon Adamant (CSDF)
Pelanor Eldritch (DPU)

6th Representative Assembly
February — July 2007

Claude Desmoulins (DPU) – Leader of the Representative Assembly
Justice Soothsayer (DPU)
Patroklus Murakami (CSDF)
Publius Crabgrass (SP)
Michel Manen (CARE)

7th Representative Assembly
August 2007 — January 2008

LRA Patroklus Murakami (CSDF)
Jon Seattle (CSDF)
Leon Ash (CSDF)
Beathan Vale (Simplicity)
ThePrincess Parisi (CARE)

8th Representative Assembly
February — April 2008

LRA Patroklus Murakami (CSDF)
Bjerkel Eerie (CSDF)
ThePrincess Parisi (NuCARE)
MT Lundquist (NuCARE)
Brian Livingston (Simplicity)
Beathan Vale (Simplicity)
Sonja Strom (DPU)

9th Representative Assembly

August 2008 — January 2009

Justice Soothsayer (CSDF) – Leader of the Representative Assembly
Arria Perrault (CSDF)
Gwyneth Llewelyn (CSDF)
Rubaiyat Shatner (DPU)
Pip Torok (DPU)
Flyingroc Chung (DPU)
Bells Semyorka (NuCare)

10th Representative Assembly

February – July 2009

Symo Kurka (SP) – Leader of the Representative Assembly
Soro Dagostino (SP) – Resigned, replaced by Brian Livingston (SP)
Cindy Ecksol (SP)
Gwyneth Llewelyn (CSDF)
Justice Soothsayer (CSDF)
Sonja Strom (DPU)
Pip Torok (DPU)

11th Representative Assembly
August 2009 — January 2010

CDS:

LRA Cindy Ecksol
Arria Perreault
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Pip Torok
Robert Galland
Sonja Strom
Soro Dagostino

al-Andalus:

Micael Khandr
Carolyn Saarinen
Wasp Thor
StuiChicanne Darkstone
Joaquin Gustav
Naftali Torok

12th Representative Assembly
February — May 2010

Arria Perreault (CSDF) – Leader of the Representative Assembly
Gwyneth Llewelyn (CSDF)
Patroklus Murakami (CSDF)
Mikelo Serevi (CSDF) – RA Content Archivist
Pip Torok (DPU)
Gelf Yalin (DPU)
Imotali Antiesse (DPU)
Timo Gufler (DPU)
Carolyn Saarinen (SEED*)
StuiChicanne Darkstone (SEED*) – LRA pro tempore
Lilith Ivory (SEED*)

The 13th Representative Assembly

June — November 2010

Arria Perrault (CSDF)
Cindy Ecksol, RA Archivist
Gwyneth Llewelyn (CSDF)
Kasiedo Quandry
Keila Forager (elected in August)
Lilith Ivory
Mikelo Serevi (elected in August)
Muhammedyussif Wikinger (DPU)
Patroklus Murakami (CSDF) (until August)
Pip Torok (DPU)
Rose Springvale, LRA
Solomon Mosely
Stuichicanne Darkstone (until August)
Timo Gufler (DPU)
Tor Karlsvalt

The 14th Representative Assembly

December 2010 — May 2011

Cindy Ecksol
Fern Leissa
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Lilith Ivory, LRA
Mikelo Serevi
Pip Torok
Guillaume Mistwalker

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Events 2011 (1)

Oktoberfest 2011

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2nd Representative Assembly (7)

RA Meeting: January 30, 2005

Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks
Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyn should be right here.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hello all!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdee!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello ‘all’ being Sudane, I see… lol
Sudane Erato: hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm why a penguin?
Sudane Erato: penguin has some notecards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Sudane Erato: 9
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should have been a chicken, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That’s a good way to give out cards.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: what is it about here!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Sudane Erato: RTD and FPS are fine!
Sudane Erato: but I die!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I have found a nifty trick…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under Preferences | Options…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Reduce the drawing distance to just 64 m
Sudane Erato: yeah?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means, 8 times less objects and textures to render.
Sudane Erato: oh. i’ll try it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also means that you’ll get a very foggy environment on open spaces
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since then, I’m able to get an average of 10 fps on busy sims…. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have the Drop draw distance if FPS < 2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, hello there Psau
Psau Mfume: hello =)
Sudane Erato: hi!
Psau Mfume: hihi =)
Sudane Erato: gwyn, i think that is much better!
Sudane Erato: thanks!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does wonders for my slow Mac…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t possible imagine how I managed to survive the past year without that, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m not supposed to be here, cause I’m not in the RA but I thought I’d drop in if you have questions about my bills.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika…
Sudane Erato: LOL! lots!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I re-read the constitution…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I think that the RA meetings are supposed to be ‘public’… right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s true.
Sudane Erato: I think that only makes sense!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you’re more than welcome to stay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And anyway… IF we agree upon anything…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it means that the SC could already veto us, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: do we have a minimum quorum on the RA?
Sudane Erato: not yet i think?
Sudane Erato: wouldn’t that be part of the rules?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, probably.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing on the Constitution…
Sudane Erato: Sure! although I probably have everything
Sudane Erato: you must know exactly what you’re going to do!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t think we have a minimum.
Sudane Erato: I’ll be really interested to see
Ulrika Zugzwang: How should we handle it when only a fraction shows up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should be reading the notecards…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Well, majority rules…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we just reduce the vote to whomever is present?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds good to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have just 2 people here, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well the penguin make three.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: question? how do you turn off the fog?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember there is an option for that….
Ulrika Zugzwang: SHIFT-ALT-Minus
Sudane Erato: yeah, but i can’t find it in Debug
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Sudane… I can’t get the notecards from inside the penguin
Ulrika Zugzwang: But you have to have the debug menu on.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s CTRL-ALT-D
Ulrika Zugzwang: So first CTRL-ALT-D to enable the debug menu, then ALT-SHIFT-Minus
Sudane Erato: thanks. worked
Sudane Erato: now, for the penguin?
Sudane Erato: he’s got every conceivable permission enabled! Stephen Grayson is offline
Sudane Erato: I can hand them out, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I have that magic notecard dispenser script with me…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just one second
Sudane Erato: but with that, you have to name the card, i think?
Sudane Erato: and it only gives out one Sudane Erato accepted your inventory offer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I’m not mistaken, Sudane, that gives out ALL notecards inside.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon Adamant uses that very same script for her poetry events, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL on the penguin name
Psau Mfume: free house! Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. It worked for me. A click gave me the cards.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, that script is OLD, still has a silly hover text
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can’t touch the penguin myself, hmm
Sudane Erato: there, that’s better
Sudane Erato: wonder why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Sudane Erato: I left the “!”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I know, I’m probably touching it from the wrong side or something…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it work now
Sudane Erato: Ulrika and Psau, you may want to check out the cards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to read those…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve got ’em Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one of the notecards is basically your own suggestions, Sudane… right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m reading over the prices right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other is the tracking of auctions
Sudane Erato: yeah, it’s exactly what I posted yesterday
Sudane Erato: and yes, i updated them today
Sudane Erato: the prices have gotten a bit less over-heated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all those are US$?
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: the real discussion topic is:…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one more question…
Sudane Erato: what might be the relation between them and an Anzere price?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So. Walleye actually had 5 auctions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For 2/3 of the whole land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and all in USD??
Sudane Erato: those are just the larger ones, in US$
Sudane Erato: there were many smaller ones
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, this shows that LL is auctioning for US$ things like 2/3 of the sims?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices aren’t as bad as I thought they would be.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, even whole sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re not really wonderful…
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, as I said, they’re a bit down…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see Walleye for, uh, 7000 US$ or so
Sudane Erato: I’m sorry I didn’t start this 2 weeks ago
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that’s ‘only’ 40000 sq m or so
Sudane Erato: they were selling 1/4’s for $400+
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, now I’m confused
Ulrika Zugzwang: brb. Keep going. I’ll catch up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… see you ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When you have 5 times Walleye listed…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that 5 different plots?
Sudane Erato: well, the bottom line is the price/per,
Sudane Erato: yes 5 different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the total price for Walleye…. or rather, for 40,000 sq. m
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is around 7 or 8 K US$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is really a lot!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Half of Shiner… that’s 5000 US$
Sudane Erato: ooh, hold on while I pull out the note.. i’m doing this from mem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thanks Charlotte Gillespie is offline
Sudane Erato: no, the idea on the chart is to use each sale to get a price per m2…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH
Sudane Erato: then multiply that price/per times 64000, the size of the whole sim
Sudane Erato: that’s the column “If Whole Sim”
Sudane Erato: Sorry, the columns are wobbly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, you can’t get proper alignment on the notecards
Sudane Erato: text files are a pain to make columns
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: so, none of the sales indicate a whole-sim-price over $1600
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m really silly, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t read the top line properly, right right
Sudane Erato: which is lower than its been
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So *that* makes sense to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because originally that was how LL thought how much they should charge for private sims
Sudane Erato: when I posted in the forum first, the price was over 3000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Sudane Erato: i think there was an overheated atmosphere 2 weeks ago
Sudane Erato: possibly caused by a certain land deal of “Yours Truly”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: I’m just joking
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean the small plot you bought for 150 US$?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Sudane Erato: Prokofy told me the next day, he had done the same thing again…
Sudane Erato: what a dimwit!
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: i then saw other very high priced samll lots
Sudane Erato: one 2000 right near the th in Warwick (?) for 150-200
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Well it seems like we might be able to afford at least part of a sim if we can start saving now.
Sudane Erato: i think we said, and its probably important to stick with it, that we need the whole
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That’s a lot of bread.
Ulrika Zugzwang: $$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not just half of it like I proposed last week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmhmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’ll aim high.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to mention one other thing to you all.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll post it in the forums too.
Sudane Erato: maybe we should set up a contribution list
Ulrika Zugzwang: There might be a chance that we can create something even bigger than what we have now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was going to suggest pitching to the Lindens, the creation of an official “government” sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would not be M or PG — that would be decided by those in the sim or sims.
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How do you mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. A different zoning scheme?
Sudane Erato: but why government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. FlipperPA Peregrine is offline
Ulrika Zugzwang: Self rule. We’d handle everything in 1 or 2 (or more) adjacent sims, they let us keep this piece of land.
Sudane Erato: maybe i should ask, which government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Make it a long-term trial.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’d go with the one we have now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Part of the pitch would be that we have the existing infrastructure: voting tools, constitution, etc.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I’d throw that out there.
Sudane Erato: and why would the Lindens go along? after recent communications?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they want to experiment with self rule but are turned off by a small group of vocal individuals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think if we made them a good offer, perhaps they’d go for it.
Sudane Erato: you really think they’re interested in the self-rule idea?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Something to think about. I give it a 1:10.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I do think they are.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Sudane, they really are.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Didn’t they recently hire a government liason?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is it Chris Linden?
Sudane Erato: and the obstacle to them is the “bad press”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What? Really?!?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I believe so. I’ve contacted Haney for more information.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trouble is, Haney said they weren’t into ‘funding’ new projects…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll let you know if he replies.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They wouldn’t need to.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We would pay, but keep this land.
Ulrika Zugzwang: With the agreement that we’d administer all the other land for them.
Sudane Erato: and what is implied in “administer”
Ulrika Zugzwang: Other pepole would buy that land but be under our jurisdiction.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well. We’d do what we’re doing now.
Sudane Erato: collect tier?
Ulrika Zugzwang: No, they’d have to do that like normal.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’d have to handle griefing, complaints, covenants., etc.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hold elections among the citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so that’s basically proposal #1 – we make them an US$ offer for the land and pay tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in return, they don’t auction off Anzere, but sell it directly to the group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes, but it also includes the creation of “government sims””.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: the problem we take off their hands are complaints, griefing, etc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, was that already announced on the forums? hehe
Sudane Erato: is that really what they want out of self-government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t know. I’ve asked Haney to send me a contact within the Lindens to discuss this with.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They key is finding someone to bounce ideas with.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’ll take a while. Haney is slooooow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: hello Unhygenix!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello.
Unhygienix Gullwing: Hallo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Unhygienix, well met again
Unhygienix Gullwing: I am und tourist
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tourists are most welcome
Unhygienix Gullwing: Am seeking ze…… ‘ow you say?
Sudane Erato: so are we all
Unhygienix Gullwing: “Red Light District”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is PG land, lol
Sudane Erato: wrong address
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Unhygienix
Unhygienix Gullwing: So this is Neualtenburg, huh?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Just this room.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, it is
Unhygienix Gullwing: It’s um…..well, it’s smaller than I expected
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s just 1/2 a sim.
Unhygienix Gullwing: Will it be expanding to outside the room soon?
Psau Mfume: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol don’t mind Ulrika, Unhygienix… she’s teasing you, we have half of a sim, not just the room…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the other half is no-build, hehe
Unhygienix Gullwing: I know, I was teasing her right back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I’m acting silly as usual
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we go forward with the proceedings?
Unhygienix Gullwing: !
Unhygienix Gullwing: Oh, I’m sorry
Unhygienix Gullwing: I didn’t realize this was a meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fellow RA members, I feel that we can’t really have a vote on this with just 2 members, worse than that, we just have one party represented here….
Unhygienix Gullwing: Take care
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s OK Unhygienix.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, it’s open to the public, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We haven’t still disclosed our plans to take over the world…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, I’m at a loss now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure if we have enough people to do some decisions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari said that she would TRY to be around
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think we should.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, I’m sure we haven’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can wait… I have at least ‘free time’ in Sl until noon PST
Ulrika Zugzwang: If they don’t want to show, they don’t get to vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that an official declaration of the SC, Ulrika?
Sudane Erato: i think, unfortaunetly, that we have to have a meeting with a certain number
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… we could propose a bill for that
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Although, we’d then need to define the minimum acceptable notice for a meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d need at least 50% + 1 members present
Sudane Erato: perhaps at least one from each party…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And at least one representative of each party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: What if they never show?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They could cripple the govt.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a serious problem, Ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: that is a problem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: unless we change the form of government to a monarchy
Ulrika Zugzwang: If the Clown Party had 1 member and they never showed …
Sudane Erato: a friend of mine suggested we appoint a Kaiser
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chairwoman of the RA would expell the missing members, and ask the party to designate substitutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane, take a look at one old post in the Neualtenburg forums, I want to create the Monarchist Cause, an association to promote hereditary monarchy in Neualtenburg, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see.
Sudane Erato: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nobody commented on that post, *sobs*
Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, I thought you were Gueen?
Ulrika Zugzwang: We actually had that planned Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: Queen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I didn’t expect to get elected to the RA, so I dropped the issue
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll show you something …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Sudane… Head of State and Head of Church, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pontifex maximus and dictator
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: maybe we should carry on the meetings via the forum
Sudane Erato: the SL one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang gave you ulrika.paint.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: can we do polls on the private forums at Sl Universe?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm rezzing in, Ulrika, but ty
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s our stab and creating a historical monarchy.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL Ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww lol that is so cool!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang: We were thinking that everyone who was a founding member should be immortalized.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s Kendra’s first image.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hee hee.
Sudane Erato: commision frames, and hang them around us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can have them here at the unfinished RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hang them on the walls or so…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. Ok, back to serious business for a while…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a stalemate. We have 6 or 7 bills to pass
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And just two members of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: While I think we should have a minimum of members attending…
Sudane Erato: we do, but I for one don’t feel i understand the issues fully
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trouble is, we may NEVER have that minimum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ulrika is here to explain.
Sudane Erato: thats why I suggested a written up bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead and ask
Sudane Erato: well, which is Bill #1? Selador Cellardoor is online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one sec, I’ loggin in to the forums…
Sudane Erato: We need to do this in a more orderly fashion
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The first one is the elimination of the 10% event tax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For events. Yes.
Sudane Erato: OK, can we have a summary (sorry) of the whole finance thing, since this tax is what makes up the city’s finances?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure.
Sudane Erato: i’m not very knowledgeable about this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Currently all money is made by taxing sales and events.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can get the sales figures from the Ulrika’s Heim website
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a flat 10% rate.
Sudane Erato: OK
Ulrika Zugzwang: Info is at: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor
Ulrika Zugzwang: Everything is transparent.
Ulrika Zugzwang: In short, we aren’t make money.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: do we have expenses at this time?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just land-tier fees.
Sudane Erato: LOL
Sudane Erato: but are the land tier fees an organized expense?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope.
Sudane Erato: or are they just contributed by whover can?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they are.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to organize them.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But that’s after we get people living here.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Which is another bill.
Sudane Erato: Yes, I think that would be first
Ulrika Zugzwang: And months down the road.
Sudane Erato: because, you can’t go passing taxation bills without the spending plan
Ulrika Zugzwang: Our goal is to have rent and sales pay for land tier.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, currently everything done here has been for free… so we haven’t paid for anything except land tier
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: you said, there is no income now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is income
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just no profit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor/?show=statistics
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Government has gotten L$4000
Sudane Erato: Gottcha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in sales tax.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. $4k.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But over 4 months or so…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can use that to buy a sandwich.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s 3 months.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes. Sorry. 3 months
Sudane Erato: will the Lindens take L$ for tier?
Ulrika Zugzwang: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not worth it, we need to exchange it at the GOM
Ulrika Zugzwang: But we can sell money on the Gaming Open Market.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need around, say L$ 30,000 per month or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning, under the current model – only based upon sales taxes – an income on L$ 300,000 with sales.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not IMPOSSIBLE….
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s dang near impossible.
Sudane Erato: it probably is impossible in the current climate
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s why I think rentals might be a solution. They can be at 80%.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But pretty hard, when you just have 10 items for sale or so, and one accounts for about 90% of all
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is not whether we should charge the event tax
Ulrika Zugzwang: Meaning most the revenue goes to the city.
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is attracting income generators
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika’s bill #3 is about that…
Sudane Erato: and to do that, we have to insure the long term existence of Neualt
Sudane Erato: otherwise, who would come
Sudane Erato: the Bill relating to hosting new member events seems to me directly relevant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both are related… you need to insure the long-term existence of Neualtenburg, and create a source of income
Sudane Erato: sounds like we could easy pass the no tax events bill..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes…
Sudane Erato: because, it wounldn’t matter, one way or the other
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s Ulrika’s point.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And since contest events do not get any financial support from the Lindens, anyway…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s too much trouble and could be a disincentive.
Sudane Erato: well, thank yo for putting up with my slow comprehension…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: No problem.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Understanding is a good thing.
Sudane Erato: its what I need to grab onto something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I also vote for that bill to pass.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it’s unanimous? hehe
Sudane Erato: I too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Election of new RA in Two Months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We discussed this earlier, that the first term of the RA should be shorter.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to say that Talen will not support this.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He’s been against a two month term since the beginning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Well. Talen should be here to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re right.
Sudane Erato: But Talen has neither participated in a meeting…
Sudane Erato: nor posted anything since the election
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Talen was part of the provisory government and was precisely working on the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not against the 2 month term, neither in favour…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I also thought it would be a good time to set a deadline.
Sudane Erato: without this bill, what is the term length?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I may review my opinion if people fail to meet
Ulrika Zugzwang: To get folks thinking about the impending deadline of the city lease.
Ulrika Zugzwang: There is no term limit.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We thought we’d work it out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uhm
Sudane Erato: well, the next election?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, checking on the Constitution….
Ulrika Zugzwang: Remember, we took out the length of terms.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Because of all the controversy surrounding them.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So this is something that should will go in the constitution.
Sudane Erato: well, we should pass some kind of length
Ulrika Zugzwang: *should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm, not necessarily
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: the real problem is participation…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have three options…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One, pass the bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we can always change it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: two, vote to amend the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we have the power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Three, ignore the bill Alex Pennyfeather is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And postpone the issue to a time where we have more people here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember, the Constitution *says* we should meet once per week in-world at least!
Sudane Erato: we must deal; with this participation issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, as Chairwoman of the RA, I hereby declare that we should gently remind our fellow members at the RA that they’re failing on their civic duties (
Sudane Erato: agreed…
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: but we should do it in a way calculated to get everyone participating
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll post on that
Sudane Erato: whatever system that might require
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we should create an “RA” group so you can IM among yourselves.
Sudane Erato: maybe different than originally imagined
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dragging people by their hands and feet is perhaps too much…
Ulrika Zugzwang: That way you could announce things with it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a bad idea, Ulrika, but the problem is not having them know about the RA meetings, but actually atending.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would also allow you to discuss things privately as a group here.
Sudane Erato: yes, an IM group would be good for communication
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok…
Sudane Erato: and security, as Chandra ahas suggested
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. The attendance could be a problem.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill # 1 A, let’s create a RA group
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m just worried that people didn’t know about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: when they recivedan IM, they will
Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps I wasn’t clear enough on my emails & posts…?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or maybe we should IM people several days in advance.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. That sounds good as well
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. You sent an email with this date and time?
Sudane Erato: yes, that too
Ulrika Zugzwang: That should be sufficient if you did.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, yes…
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s even better than a group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well gosh. If you sent an email, I say that’s good enough.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder now… since you’re saying that, you were on the list as well, Ulrika…
Sudane Erato: it obviously didn’t work
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So probably my email didn’t go through?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m a scatter brain. Don’t count on me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check my email. ….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me check my outbox…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just one second.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You sent one but it didn’t have the date and time in it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: can we not count on members to check the SL forum?
Sudane Erato: just members, mind you
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. I’m a forum junky so it’s hard for me to say.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think members of the RA should check the forums for sure though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats, You’re right. My email was just to remind people to look at the SL Universe forum
Sudane Erato: but there, you said, meeting today
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *thought* I wrote the date & time on the email, but I didn’t.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I guess an email in the future with time and date would be sufficient.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So people probably got the email, thought about going on the forum, but never did see the date & time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should also have a rule that those who don’t show don’t get a vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do that next time…
Sudane Erato: with respose required
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That’ll fix it up.
Sudane Erato: sorry to be authoritarian
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, that is implicit in the Constitution… it says, simple majority
Sudane Erato: but surely there must be a quorum?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Section 6 – Legislative Process and Veto A vote in the RA is a simple majority vote of representative seats. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 vote.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing is mentioned in the COnstitution.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, we also need to keep this thing running.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, i also think there should be a quorum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, since we haven’t passed a bill on that yet…
Sudane Erato: Usually, a quorum definition would be a rule
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, I propose as a rule that we should have 50% + 1 members (ie. at least 4) and at least one of each party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However we’re completely out of order, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill # 2 is supposed to be about the next election day.
Sudane Erato: since we don’t even meet that rule!
Sudane Erato: may I suggest…
Sudane Erato: extraordinary times require extraordinary measures
Sudane Erato: that we appoint Ulrika and Kendra as members-at-large
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I suggest that we discuss that AFTER we vote upon the other bills
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And noooo we can’t do *that* hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That’s a bad idea.
Sudane Erato:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s technically impossible, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: oh well, I tried
Ulrika Zugzwang: I can hear the squealing now.
Sudane Erato: we need numbers!!!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both hold offices at other branches of government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dangerous
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not good
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, let’s instead make this a meeting about the RA and put the bill off until next time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: guys, this is the frontier
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m in no rush. I’ll work on the properties and buildings for now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that. So Bill # 2 is postponed
Sudane Erato: law into our own hands
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane
Sudane Erato: OK, i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, can we move unto #3?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: dfine please
Ulrika Zugzwang: Rental units. Can we have them and what cut do land lords get?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill: Rental Unit Cost and Percentage
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, how much should we rent them for?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what part should be rented at all?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: this is all very complex
Ulrika Zugzwang: It is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I rent the church? It’s my favourite building
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, seriously now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg has residential Viertels
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I think those are the only ones available for rental.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (The church does have it’s own set of dwellings that belong to it by the town square.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. True, ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still haven’t occupied a house, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Those are yours if you want them either to rent or to live in.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw my event yesterday was an utter failure, no one appeared
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: Drat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I posted too late…
Ulrika Zugzwang: You need some pose balls.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: what was the event?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Pious ones.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm the usual stuff, but a new topic to discuss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only person willing to attend was a very good friend of mine, but she was already tipsy and tired (it was the day of her SL collaring cerimony, which for the BSDM group is like a wedding)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, back to rental units…
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please, let me know
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much sq. m. do we have on the Viertels?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem will be, we cannot make a profit there…
Ulrika Zugzwang: About 1500 m2 in each give or take 200 m2.
Sudane Erato: times how many?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I remember Ulrika’s calculations, we don’t have enough sq. m. available to pay for tier using current market prices
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which would be, uh, perhaps L$ 1200/week for that
Ulrika Zugzwang: Checking …
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have about 5 of those.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so 7500 sq m?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to bring them online 1 at a time.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, it makes sense.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure has about 100 m2 per floor of space.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that sounds good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see if I can still add things up…
Sudane Erato: for a total of 1500 m2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s 7500 sq, m
Sudane Erato: each?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 Viertels, each 1500, so each 15 houses of 100 sq m
Sudane Erato: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: total, 75 plots with 100 sq m
Sudane Erato: my head spins with this…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let’s see. We have 5 quarters at 1536, 1632, 1280, 750, and 1000 m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow
Sudane Erato: sorry, but i need to look on paper
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s 6350 or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: There are a total of 35 structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 35? hm
Ulrika Zugzwang: +/- a few.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so they’re not equal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure is identical.
Sudane Erato: what are typical leases for SL?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each viertel is different.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m not sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 100 L$/week for 120 sq m or so
Sudane Erato: so we need to check that out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: depends
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t know the market rate. Let me check a post I made, where I asked some folks…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I got a lot of replies! Let me read that now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, while on IM, I’ve just rented a 2048 sq. m. plot for L$500/week, but it’s a very special price, way below the current market rate!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that doesn’t count
Sudane Erato: basically, sounds like 1 L$/m2
Sudane Erato: per week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s slightly less
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, we can use that figure
Ulrika Zugzwang: Random Unsung (Prokofy) suggests $250 per month.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, since we’re such nice guys here, lol
Sudane Erato: OK, so 4/month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: $250 for what?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 100 sq. m?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: $4 L$/mon for each m2… times 7500 m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that makes sense, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: So we should go $100 per week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Ulrika.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s a bit high but we have a special place.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sums up rather nicely….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around 24,000 L$ per month… almost enough to pay for tier!
Ulrika Zugzwang: so 100 * 35 = 3,500 per month!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops.
Sudane Erato: L$ 30,000 per month by my numbers
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, more like 30,000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since total space is 6350 sq m or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s L$100 * 35 houses * 4 weeks/month = 56,000?
Sudane Erato: sorry, i was using 7500
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lollllll
Ulrika Zugzwang: Crdu.
Ulrika Zugzwang: BAH!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me do that again.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed
Ulrika Zugzwang: L$100 * 35 houses * 4 wk/mo = L$14,000
Ulrika Zugzwang: There.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s good dough!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s fine, but that only accounts for 3500 sq m
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happened to the rest of the space?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Streets and infrastructure?
Ulrika Zugzwang: In a lease, that’s L$56 in 4 months – 15 times what we usually get by tax.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll work on increasing density.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, still slightly below what we need for pay the whole tier…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, it’s pretty dense right now, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: It will require a complete rebuilding of each district one at a time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yikes
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll one per week or so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, if you say so…
Ulrika Zugzwang: So, what kind of cut does the land-lord get? Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a tough one
Sudane Erato: the city is the landlord, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The city owns the land but the land lord provides a service by maintaining the land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, actually, members contributing tier…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That too Gwyneth.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, my feeling is that they should get 100%
Ulrika Zugzwang: The person?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The landlord I mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, the group of tier-contributing members. Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Split among them according to the percentage of tier they hold.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to use this L$ as a way for us to afford our new home as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, Ulrika
Sudane Erato: that should be temproary, until the city budget pays the tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would come to about US$200.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Not too bad.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me suggest this…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we have an alternative option, we’d like to pool ALL money into buying our sim
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Afterwards, landlords get 100% of the income generated from rents
Sudane Erato: then who pays the tier?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means an extra effort to the group members who have payed for tier…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *paid
Sudane Erato: who pays the tier ongoing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane, you mean ‘now’ or ‘after we buy the sim’?
Sudane Erato: after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A generous group of members right now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And probably the same generous group afterwards, but, this time, they’ll actually get enough money to pay for their tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we should duplicate the available area…
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for renting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That will give near to L$ 30 K, or enough to pay for tier.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, I’m assuming that ALL houses would be rented, lol)
Sudane Erato: Long term, it CANNOT be generous members who pay the tier..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Long term, the rentals would pay for tier.
Sudane Erato: it must be a responsibility of the government
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to let you two know, that I have to leave in about 15 minutes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: mee too
Ulrika Zugzwang: We did bring up a lot of new issues though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, the alternative would be… pooling all the money together… putting a L$30 K budget for the landlords… and see how we can extract L$ from people
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll try and capture a lot of them in the forums, to spread out the work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, just 1 bill approved, 1 postponed, and 1 discussed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a bill # 1 A…. what was it again?
Ulrika Zugzwang: We also talked a lot about the RA as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sure.
Ulrika Zugzwang: #1 A was the RA group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If you two can summarize the current bill discussions, I’ll summarize from the SC standpoint the problems with attendance and what to do with voting when members are absent.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’ll be the Constitution Discussion #3.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: sounds good to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, the RA group, yes
Sudane Erato: i’d like a summary, so i can understand the issues better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, I’ll try to get you an email on that…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, I wanted to say not to be too rough on those who didn’t show. They donate a lot of tier.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean on the transcript…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It will be more a plea and not a grumbling
Sudane Erato: i feel we need understanding
Sudane Erato: if people are donating tier..
Sudane Erato: but not participating…
Sudane Erato: what is underlying their interest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. I was also hoping we could come up on a ‘citizen’s tax’ for the non/contributing members of tier
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (like myself!)
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: and me
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah! That’s an interesting thought.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe you should submit that as a bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve been thinking of a way to remove nonproductive members.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We even had a small group of members that I didn’t know existed who jumped in just for the vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should have done before. However, we can always propose new bills inside the RA meetings.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Right
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they were added by Talen at the last minute.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: /no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, that’s not so bad, really.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Naw. It didn’t affect the outcome of the election.
Sudane Erato: any way to get new members, we should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why the ‘citizen’s tax’ is a good idea
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we could have a trial period for new members so we don’t scare them away.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, new citizens just popping up from nowhere…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will have either to pay that tax, contribute tier… or go out of the Neualtenbrug group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time for me to go
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we just say bye bye?
Sudane Erato: we have to make a “benefit” for being in Neualt!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Thanks for letting me hang out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, benefit
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Being hated by everybody in SL, etc
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s benefit enough.
Sudane Erato: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’re welcome, ulrika & Psau, as said, these meetings are supposed to be public…
Sudane Erato: yes, thank you!
Sudane Erato: can we suggest next week, same time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, if you’re willing to contribute tier, this means we’ll manage the land and rent it out, keep it free from griefers, etc. and thus make your investment a piece of cake to handle
Sudane Erato:
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Almost time for the Thinker’s meeting Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: I’m hoping to contribute tier, once I get my personal land affairs straightened out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes. Unless someone votes against it, we’ll have the RA meetings same place, same hour
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Ulrika, good guess
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: well, my best to all!
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao everyone.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, cheers to all and thanks for attending, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can;t forget to take a copy *this time*
Psau Mfume: take care everyone =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you didn’t fall asleep, Psau, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Psau Mfume: naw, was sorting my inventory =)
Sudane Erato: lol
Psau Mfume: it’s still a mess =(

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 06, 2005

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Roberta Always punctual!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Sudane!
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm it seems that we’re not many – again.
Sudane Erato: thanks for the draw distance tip!
Sudane Erato: it really works!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s right…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been using it ever since, Sudane…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Roberta!
Sudane Erato: hi Roberta
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw, do any of you have either Talen Morgan or Christiano’s calling card?
Sudane Erato: no, i don’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have neither… wasn’t able to IM them, just email…
Sudane Erato: don;t people check their email!?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some don’t….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL!
Sudane Erato: speak of the devil
Talen Morgan: greetings all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen DOES read the mail, hehe
Sudane Erato: hello!
You have offered to exchange calling cards with Talen Morgan.
You have exchanged calling cards with Talen Morgan.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This time, I’ll offer to trade cards with you, Talen
Roberta Dalek: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me add you to the ‘spam group’ hehe
Talen Morgan: not sure if Pen will be here
Sudane Erato: she still have family in?
Roberta Dalek: I have several email accounts – the best way to contact me really is by IM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s wait a bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I’ll try to contact you all on IM *and* email
Talen Morgan: I’m thinking Sunday might not be the best of days to hold meetings….for many its the only family time they have
Sudane Erato: what other time would be good for all?
Talen Morgan: Thats something we’ll have to figure out if we can get everyone in one spot at the same time
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good point.
Roberta Dalek: any day – but musn’t be too late – its 6pm now where I am
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Roberta…
Sudane Erato: its 1 in NY
Sudane Erato: great time for me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… we can start by thinking what is better, workdays or weekdays?
Sudane Erato: workdays are ok if its between 3 and 6 GT
Sudane Erato: PM
Roberta Dalek: well 3 is 11pm here
Sudane Erato: otherwise it s tough for those of us who work in offices
Talen Morgan: sounds like weekends would be better due to the different countries involved
Sudane Erato: yeah, thats the trouble with world-wide scheduling
Roberta Dalek: could be fun if we ever get someone from Australia or New Zealand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed
Sudane Erato: oh no!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have no problem with 3 PM PST on any workday.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except perhaps for Friday, but even so…
Sudane Erato: yes, fri is less good
Roberta Dalek: I can’t guarantee that I’d be able to make a meeting from 11pm-1am at all times – as sometimes I fall asleep before then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Sudane Erato: hehe, me too
Sudane Erato: lucky i’m further west!
Talen Morgan: well there are a few possibilities…as long as each party is represented then we can go back to our prospective parties and discuss the meeting and perhaps the actual voting on bills can be done via website like the election votes
Sudane Erato: yes, that had been one idea
Sudane Erato: i would support it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: but peole might not hear all the arguments
Talen Morgan: it seems like its the only way time wise that would be workable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I’d prefer it the other way round…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Discuss IRL, vote on SL
Talen Morgan: we will keep minutes of each meeting and they can read the full discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… we also have the option of doing everything on the forums.
Sudane Erato: the live meetings are definitely the problem pooint
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I really think that, in spite of all the ‘problems’ of in-world meetings, you can get faster discussions here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could have a compromise of holding every week the meeting at a different time slot…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we would have half the people on one week, and the other half on the next week
Talen Morgan: but there is still the very good possibility that not all will show up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, i think that would make for a very difficult process
Sudane Erato: dis-jointed
Roberta Dalek: may be the answer is to find out why people didn’t attend rather than presume it is the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Hmm
Sudane Erato: good point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’ll think we should do that.
Talen Morgan: real life intervenes will be the answer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keep the meetings for now at Sunday, 10 AM PST
Sudane Erato: maybe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ask people why they can’t attend…
Roberta Dalek: I say keep at the same time and ask people why they didn’t attend
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And try to fit it on a different time slot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, roberta, lol
Roberta Dalek: I didn’t attend the last one cos I didn’t know about it, for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was entirely my fault, I do apologise…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a transcript… still ‘raw’
Talen Morgan: I say keep the meetings at this time slot ….we are supposed to keep minutes anyway…deliver the minutes to all members and have the actual vote on the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll give the notecard to both you and Talen…
Roberta Dalek: for accountability
Roberta Dalek: we need to be publically publishing minutes etc
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe that will be a long post!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen… the *only* reason why I don’t like that, is that it makes these meetings rather pointless… we could just discuss the issues on the forums
Roberta Dalek: no parliament meets in secret
Roberta Dalek accepted your inventory offer.
Sudane Erato: but i don’t think they should be edited
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol the problem is all the annoying ‘XXX is online’ or ‘SL Exchange delivered object YYY’
Talen Morgan: it wouldnt make these meetings pointless but the fact is I doubt there will ever be full attendance here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I duobt that as well, Talen… *sigh*
Roberta Dalek: a discussion on the forum would involve more than the senate
Sudane Erato: can’t you opt those out of chat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish I could.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Roberta, we have private forums for that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we could have.
Roberta Dalek: yes – but we still need to tell the wider community what is going on – even if it is a notecard giver or library in neuberg
Roberta Dalek: in fact I favour a library
Sudane Erato: Roberta, i think those are really good ideas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen… I meant ‘pointless’ just in the way that this would be a place ‘just for talk’ but not for making decisions. So I’d say people would skip attending in-world meetings and conveniently browse the forums and do the voting there…
Talen Morgan: I thought we spoke earlier of having a notecard giver outside the meeting chamber
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I may be wrong….
Sudane Erato: a LOT of people don’t use the forums
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I also agree on the notecard dispenser
Roberta Dalek: A public record in world is better
Sudane Erato: and the forums are not a part of SL
Talen Morgan: I think we should use the same method for voting as we did for the election …it will be more detailed
Sudane Erato: a notecard giver is part of SL
Sudane Erato: even if people don’t use it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen, so a double system, where you authenticate yourself in-world but do the voting off-world?
Sudane Erato: sure would be nice if we could do it all in-world
Talen Morgan: does matter where the vote takes place as long as the voting is done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really… just as proceedings go… I feel like there is ‘waste of time’ meeting in-world if all decisions are done off-world (by voting)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, what’s the point in meeting then? Even if we have the minutes… you could vote without ever reading them.
Talen Morgan: then set up the kiosk in world to vote and the website gives the results
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, that’s accountability! Yes, I agree with such a device.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But still the question remains… would the kiosk be here in the senate, and you would be able to vote only when we have our meetings…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will people be able to use the kiosk even if they never attended the meetings?
Roberta Dalek: I presume the point about kiosk voting would be to enable those to vote who can’t attend the meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Roberta Dalek: so the question is should you be able to vote if you didn’t attend?
Talen Morgan: the kiosk would be here in the senate and hopefully it will be used during an alloted time frame….the meetings should be used to discuss the issues the vote is the vote no matter when it happens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I propose that we submit that as a bill and vote upon it
Talen Morgan: every member votes
Sudane Erato: it seems that the natural right of vote does not necessarily include the requirement to attend
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well indeed, Sudane.
Roberta Dalek: but irl you can only vote in parliament if you are there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s my point, and that’s why I don’t like the idea very much…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However… I think we should vote upon it, lol
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we find out why people can’t attend first
Talen Morgan: in real life parliment member have a duty and it is their job to be there….this isn’t real life and many of us have other responcibilities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Roberta Dalek: so we have some information on which to make a decision
Talen Morgan: it doesnt matter why people cant attend …real life will prevent us all from attending at one time or another…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well… Talen, that’s relative… think of Neualtenburg as your local club, not as the Congress or Senate. Then it makes sense. You attend your club’s official meetings whenever you have time, and vote when you’re present…
Sudane Erato: in the US Senate, you don;t have to attend the debate, you just have to physicvally present to vote
Roberta Dalek: same in the uk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, most countries are like that.
Talen Morgan: you dont have to be present to vote in the senate …there are various circumstances when a senator can be absent and still vote
Talen Morgan: either way we are a very small group and every vote should count
Sudane Erato: perhaps closely defined circumstances
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, clubs, local associations, and even some small-scale assemblies, where people do not work ‘full time’, function like that… you have to attend to discuss & vote…
Sudane Erato: the kiosk could be here all week
Sudane Erato: and that would meet the “present” requirement
Talen Morgan: I agree with that
Roberta Dalek: Ok – I strongly agree that it *shouldn’t* be on any forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not the ‘attend’ requirement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least that’s unanimous, then? No voting on forums/web sites? All voting is done in-world, regardless of the possibility of tying up the kiosk with a Web page?
Talen Morgan: yes
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL, that was unanimous
Sudane Erato:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next issue is, for how long should the kiosk be available for voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One week? (ie. between meetings)
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one day or a few hours?
Talen Morgan: I also think that the kiosk should show to all the members ( somehow) who voted what as if we were voting during the meetings
Sudane Erato: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just during the meetings?
Sudane Erato: no, all week, and i think Talen’s point is good
Talen Morgan: the kiosk should be available for voting for 5 days…the business week perhaps
Roberta Dalek: yes – voting shouldn’t be secret
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Makes sense, if the voting is never ‘secret’.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Roberta Dalek: but should close before the next meeting so that results are available
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Roberta.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, I disagree, but I’m outumbered 3:1, so that bill will pass
Roberta Dalek: the meeting should then start with the results of the voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have a voting machine, and it will be available the whole week for voting…
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: old business then new business
Sudane Erato: who will make it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! So we can close the meeting for today, since we need the kiosk for voting for the next bills, LOL
Talen Morgan: we can see if the election kiosk can be subverted for our purpose
Sudane Erato: LLOL!
Roberta Dalek: the minutes of the meeting should include who voted for what – as this will enable the electorate to decide who they wish to re-elect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I guess that it is a possibility, Talen…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it needs some changes…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The changes are…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) No secret voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Several votes at the same time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) Notecards with the bills, before the RA member votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) Transactions of the meetings.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, minutes of the last meeting…
Sudane Erato: notecards for the biils
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Sudane Erato: the only question i have is regarding the secret votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes?
Talen Morgan: it should be one notecard for each bill and each bill should have a number …to keep things uniform
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Talen…
Sudane Erato: that was an issue discussed extensively in the forums before the first election
Roberta Dalek: yes – and the library should keep a copy of all bills
Talen Morgan: agreed
Sudane Erato: sometimes an issue might require secrecy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: can you think of an example?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a tough one, Sudane. yes. An example would be nice.
Sudane Erato: the example used by Ulrika was regarding the possible purchase of land by Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is a ‘secret discussion’
Sudane Erato: if it were known our intentions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re doing that right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is a ‘voting’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should be public…
Sudane Erato: Ah, perhaps
Talen Morgan: I think that issue falls under a general category wheras it is more of a group decission not necessarily a political one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not 100% sure of that myself, lol
Roberta Dalek: agree talen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, something like that, Talen…
Talen Morgan: land is plentiful and we don’t need to be secretive about it in fear that someone will try to jack us…
Sudane Erato: it is plentiful if we plan to buy new land…
Roberta Dalek: the principle of open, transparent and accountable governence is a higher priority
Sudane Erato: but that is only one option
Roberta Dalek: the nitty gritty of buying land isn’t really just a matter for the senate
Sudane Erato: but any decision must have the support of the system
Sudane Erato: not just a few leaders
Talen Morgan: the real issue regarding land is what we are going to do….when it comes time to do whatever we decide then we just do it
Roberta Dalek: the senate can delegate the discussions for Foo Bar
Sudane Erato: that’s why perhaps it is a matter for the seante
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but technically at least it should be our responsability to propose and vote upon a solution.
Roberta Dalek: delegate to Foo is what I meant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with delegation, of course…
Sudane Erato: what is Foo Bar?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, just delegate to ‘someone’
Talen Morgan: considering that the land involves everyone and many tiers are donated it is a community decision
Roberta Dalek: meaning a n other/j doe in this case
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, you raise a very serious point, Talen…
Sudane Erato: yes, that is the point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any suggestions how we should handle it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no provision in the Constitution – yet – for a referendum…
Talen Morgan: and we still need to figure out the best course of action which most likely will be buying new land as I can’t see the lindens selling us this land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we *could* discuss a few options, and suggest that the whole community votes for it.
Talen Morgan: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: a very difficult dilemma
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, yes…
Sudane Erato: bcause whatever the community decision
Sudane Erato: there will be individuals who will seek to gain
Roberta Dalek: we are still responsible for sorting it out
Sudane Erato: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with you both…
Talen Morgan: not really….considering what we have done so far I see it as an easy thing to deal with…I’m sure we could get a sim if we wanted very easily
Roberta Dalek: if the community votes for X, which then doesn’t work we need to allow the continuation of the project
Talen Morgan: honestly it will fall to those who have donated tier ….these people will be responsible as well as other who donate in doing what is needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yuo mean a private sim, or a mainland sim, Talen?
Talen Morgan: either
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the issue with a private sim is that there is only one owner.
Sudane Erato: in previous discussions, there has been a very great sentiment to stay here
Talen Morgan: a mainland sim would make more sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, talen
Roberta Dalek: Agree a mainland sim would be better
Roberta Dalek: but staying in Anzere may not be possible
Talen Morgan: theres no reason to stay here. we can never own all the land and the Lindens won’t sell to us outright
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, the Lindens change the way the private sims work, but I guess that’s not under discussion right now…
Sudane Erato: Talen, perhaps i agree…
Talen Morgan: you can buy a private sim as a group
Sudane Erato: but there is a great deal of feeling to stay here
Roberta Dalek: the argument against moving is rebuilding, the argument against staying is that we may end up with random parcels without the room to expand
Talen Morgan: one person is still responcible for the tier though but the group can all work the land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can, talen? But who’ll pay for it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Talen Morgan: hopefully it will pay for itself…you only need to bring in 50k lindens amonth to pay tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta, I think that trying to buy all the land here from public auctions is almost impossible, it needs too much coordination, UNLESS we could convince the Lindens NOT to parcel out the terrain.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Ulrika pointed out that Haney told her that LL *will* parcel it out.
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think they will want to do us a special favour
Talen Morgan: the lindens wont deal direct as they will see it as not being fair
Roberta Dalek: so – if they will parcel it out then we can’t stay here
Sudane Erato: do the lindens care about “fair”?
Talen Morgan: they care about the appearance of fair
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Talen, that is the common ‘feeling’, but the truth is, we don’t have an official answer to that. Just our own ‘feelings’ based upon past dealings with the Lindens.
Talen Morgan: trust me the Lindens will do exactly what I said…..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think so, roberta. If this gets parcelled out, there is almost no chance for us to get it back.
Roberta Dalek: we need to know 100% whether they will parcel it out – if they will (as Haney said) then we need to find another mainland siom
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, talen, I’ll give you a 90% confidence on that
Roberta Dalek: so we can rebuild
Sudane Erato: hehe
Talen Morgan: you can buy a sim and have it attached to the mainland
Sudane Erato: its still private, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 10% is a chance that they react unpredictably to our arguments But it’s a very small chance.
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I like that idea.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we can ask them to replicate the terrain here…
Sudane Erato: can an alt own a private sim?
Talen Morgan: it is just attached to the mainland
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the rebuilding would be very easy.
Talen Morgan: anyone or group can own a sim or many sims
Sudane Erato: sO uLRIKA’S BANKER ALT COULD OWN THE SIM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Sudane Erato: sorry
Talen Morgan: we can even have seasons then as we can change the terrain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s the question.
Talen Morgan: yes
Roberta Dalek: that would be good – as we could guarantee that they wouldn’t sell it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol seasons, hehe
Sudane Erato: very nice. i would love seasons
Talen Morgan: snow all the time is dpressin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen & Sudane… that sounds about the ‘best’ suggestion so far
Sudane Erato: LOL
Talen Morgan: a sim would cost 1k US up front and I think we could get that easily
Sudane Erato: yes, i think we could
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, as I said once, I can donate US$500, no problem.
Talen Morgan: basically 250k lindens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there wouldn’t be a question of tier
Roberta Dalek: I live on disability benefit so I couldn’t donate money – only time
Talen Morgan: and ulrikas idea of a casino would definately help with tier and traffic
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, no problem, Roberta
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Talen…
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, why no question of tier?
Roberta Dalek: I’ve offered to host events – like a re-run of my Kraftwerk event
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, what I meant, Sudane, is that private sims don’t have tier ‘tecnically’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Uma Bauhaus just needs to pay the Lindens 195 USD every month
Sudane Erato: i see
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the private sim does not count towards tier.
Roberta Dalek: which she should get from taxes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Roberta.
Roberta Dalek: if we sort outselves out
Sudane Erato: but individuals could no longer contribute tier?
Talen Morgan: and we only need 50k lindens to meet that 195
Roberta Dalek: they wouldn’t need to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There would be no need…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we’d want to ‘expand’ into the mainland, lol
Talen Morgan: no you cant contribute tier to a sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, this would be much fairer upon the nice people who are donating tier right now.
Talen Morgan: its one property individually owned
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, talen…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the more I think about that, the more I like it
Roberta Dalek: me too
Sudane Erato: yes, perhaps
Roberta Dalek: it works on an economic level
Talen Morgan: with rentals , taxes, and a possible casino 50k a month is very easy to attain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can even rename the sim to be ‘Neualtenburg’
Sudane Erato: but, i strongly feel we must talk with Ulrika and Kendra about this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Talen Morgan: we will talk with all about this
Talen Morgan: but it will be a group decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well… this is one of those things that should be ‘voted’ using the new model.
Roberta Dalek: But this does seem to be the way forward
Sudane Erato: of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, we can vote our suggestion…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And eventually do a ‘referendum’ thingie.
Roberta Dalek: more sensible than trying to buy anzere piecemeal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about timings?
Talen Morgan: I dont think it warrants a vote….if parties are interested in putting up the funds to buy a sim and we are in agreement that a sim is warranted then we should do it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Talen. I agree.
Roberta Dalek: we don’t have to wait until the 4 months is up to move
Sudane Erato: no, there must be a vote, i think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My thoughts exactly, Roberta.
Roberta Dalek: but obviously the cost starts from when we move
Talen Morgan: no…but we should use those four months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The sooner, the better, because I really would like to concentrate on other things …
Roberta Dalek: but we need to build on the new sim in the 4 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the private sim CAN be a replica of this one.
Roberta Dalek: there is no point in building new things in anzere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, we can build stuff here, and just ask the Lindens to do a copy & paste
Talen Morgan: we should use the free resources we have now to generate income to help with the sim if thats what gets decided
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes sense, talen.
Sudane Erato: or we can do a copy and paste
Roberta Dalek: we need a casino and a community centre/arts centre to host events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw the MoMA is looking fantastic…
Talen Morgan: casino is easy…I already own 2 and have all the games necessary
Sudane Erato: Ulrika is working hard on it
Talen Morgan: I can give them to ulrikas alt to use
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But most events I’ve hosted (besides the ones at the Church and the restaurant) have been at the ’empty area’ by the Spital…
Sudane Erato: great
Roberta Dalek: we need to decide whether we want to do house rentals whilst things are up in the air
Gwyneth Llewelyn: great, Talen, thanks
Talen Morgan: casino’s bring in a lot of money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, house rentals would be a great help towards financing the acquisition of the sim…
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they surely do, talen… especially IF we have our own telehub (which is the case of a private sim) AND the sim is connected to the mainland!
Talen Morgan: and house rentals in the sim would help defer costs
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: the issue with house rentals is defining the landlord/city relationship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Roberta Dalek: uma is the landlord
Talen Morgan: yes I just built a casino right next to a telehub…it is very nice )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under the current model, technically, the landlords are the people donating tier…
Roberta Dalek: you pay the treasury
Sudane Erato: no, Ulrika was right
Sudane Erato: there is work involved
Sudane Erato: from what I have seen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The future sim will have Uma as landlord, so, the question will be moot…
Sudane Erato: its like buying and selling land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, Sudane?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That we should have someone responsible for dealing with the rentals?
Sudane Erato: from what i can see, the landlord must maintain a relationship with the tenant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. setting up the appropriate scripts, running after people, etc.
Sudane Erato: yes, running after people
Talen Morgan: we are the landlord….the city will take care of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any volunteers? lol
Talen Morgan: there are scripts available to take care of renters
Sudane Erato: doesn’t seem like you can set it up like a store
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Talen, but I guess Sudane is right…
Talen Morgan: each house should have its own land so when they dont pay just return all from that land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There often is the need for help… like returning objects and so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So micro-parceling?
Roberta Dalek: what is the smallest piece land can be parcelled into? if land is parcelled then that takes care of prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds right….
Talen Morgan: and use rental scripts to take the money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 sq m I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or was it 16?
Talen Morgan: 16m2
Sudane Erato: very small
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 16.
Talen Morgan: so we can parcel the land for rentals which makes it very easy
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… any of you own a private sim?
Sudane Erato: hehe!
Talen Morgan: and they cant go over their prim limits
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I never saw the Estate menu…
Talen Morgan: I am in the process of buying one now
Sudane Erato: that would be interesting to see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok, talen. But in theory, the sim owner can even ‘eject’ people when they’re ‘owners’ of a parcel, right?
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you could actually give the small plots to somebody…
Talen Morgan: they wouldnt own the parcel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Charge them rents, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they don’t pay, ‘remove ownership’.
Talen Morgan: the parcel is still owned by the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a very, very strong argument for going the way of a private sim!
Talen Morgan: but it is parceled so they have a prim limit
Sudane Erato: is there a “rental” ownership?
Roberta Dalek: no
Talen Morgan: no just rental
Talen Morgan: you cant sell private sim land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, under that model – private sim – there ‘sort of’ is an ‘ownership’
Talen Morgan: only transfer the whole sim to another
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you can’t have the land as yours?
Roberta Dalek: but you can parcel and rent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Parcel & rent is ok.
Talen Morgan: we can parcel and rent but they cant own land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But no editing, terraforming, etc…
Roberta Dalek: we wouldn’t want to sell anyway as we would lose control of the land
Talen Morgan: the group would own the land
Sudane Erato: i thought that Uma would own the land?
Roberta Dalek: I rent from TLC and it is fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was my point, Roberta. As Estate owner, you seem to have all nifty tools to ‘control’ the way stuff is used in the private sim…
Talen Morgan: yes no editing ….only group members will be able to work the land
Roberta Dalek: Uma would be the owner – but it would be set to group?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Talen Morgan: the group hasx to buy
Talen Morgan: you can tell the lindens we are buying as a group and they set it to group land but uma is still responsible for the payment
Sudane Erato: oh! i see
Talen Morgan: only one person can own a sim
Roberta Dalek: but as uma is the treasury…
Roberta Dalek: and not a real person
Sudane Erato: but the group is still recognized
Roberta Dalek: it works
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I said, this is a particularly good way to get out of this mess…
Talen Morgan: yes thats why we set it up before we buy to group so all of the group members can build and return things and work the land
Talen Morgan: and its much cheaper than trying to buy parcels in this sim
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, another question, Talen… will that work for ALL members, or just the officers?
Talen Morgan: all members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and that’s REALLY true, much much cheaper!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: yes, much!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that every member can eject people, or return objects, etc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Talen Morgan: i would guess it would cost around 2k real money to purchase this sim in parcels
Roberta Dalek: if we managed it
Talen Morgan: only officers could eject I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is the big ‘if’
Talen Morgan: not tottaly sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok.
Roberta Dalek: and we’d need tier unlike in a private sim
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems that we need a session with Haney or someone else…
Roberta Dalek: if think only officers – and the members can vote to demote an officer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, Talen, since you’re buying a private sim, perhaps you could give us feedback on that…
Talen Morgan: members can vote to demote an officer
Roberta Dalek: that’s what recall elections are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Talen Morgan: absolutely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, with 50+ people, group elections hardly accomplish anything…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I don’t trust those, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: I presume that we onlt have 3 months left now
Talen Morgan: around that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, we COULD have a Neualtenburger group for doing the proposals and the voting…
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No need of scripting kiosks. What do you think?
Roberta Dalek: but more groups causes problems
Talen Morgan: much easier
Talen Morgan: no this would be a RA group
Sudane Erato: don’t understand
Roberta Dalek: I’m generally at my group max
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, me too
Roberta Dalek: RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Representative Assembly.
Talen Morgan: and when a vote is up each member gets it as soon as they log in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, what do you think? Should we have a kiosk or a group for the bill voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only issue would be accountability…
Roberta Dalek: are votes secret in group elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a problem. Yes.
Talen Morgan: I think a group will work but I dont think it will tell us who voted what which is needed
Sudane Erato: sorry, i don’t fully understand the group voting
Roberta Dalek: we can’t have secret voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. You’re right, I forgot that…
Talen Morgan: I dont think it will work as we want it too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, you can propose things and submit them for voting inside a group.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a ‘seldom used’ feature…
Talen Morgan: but we should suggest to the lindens that it should be added
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly used to recall officers.
Sudane Erato: i see
Roberta Dalek: or for adverts normally tbh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, talen. That would be an idea, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeah, that too, Roberta 😛
Roberta Dalek: I think we need to get back to the land point and agree a way forward – will Talen and Gwyn laise with Ulrika and Kendra?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I’ll email them…
Talen Morgan: hmm wish we had polls in world because they can be set up to show who voted what
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed…
Sudane Erato: a kiosk could do that, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we still need the kiosk.
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: just needs to be scripted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, I wish I had much more free time for SL
Talen Morgan: I can talk to eggy or we ca ask ulrika to taslk to him….easy job for him to create
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could do that in 3 days if nobody’d interrupt me…. however, that’s as likely as the Lindens suddenly ofering us Anzere, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Eggy… pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, he could do it in a few hours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But GETTING him to do anything is the hard part, lol
Talen Morgan: yes very true
Sudane Erato: does he need $$?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: naah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: he’s an utter anarchist, lol
Sudane Erato: LOL
Roberta Dalek: can we get feedback re: the land at the next meeting? I think it’s important that this doesn’t drag on for 3 months…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Agreed, Roberta.
Sudane Erato: agree
Talen Morgan: I like Anarchist….I’m one myself lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol talen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are two types of anarchists…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘lazy, unpredictable’ type
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the ‘involved’ anarchist
Roberta Dalek: active or passive anarchism?
Sudane Erato: Involved?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, well, the ones that actually do lots of stuff, hehe
Sudane Erato: like involved at the GPO?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: GPO?
Sudane Erato: sorry…
Sudane Erato: my initials wrong
Sudane Erato: the world financial summit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… I see, lol. Well…
Roberta Dalek: anarcho-capitalists are something very different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s drop that
Talen Morgan: lol
Roberta Dalek: anyway… back to business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) We have a concrete suggestion for solving the land issue, and this should go both to Ulrika & Kendra
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) We should afterwards ask a few questions to the Lindens…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To Slow Haney first
Talen Morgan: what do we need to ask them?
Sudane Erato:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But probably to others as well, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Roberta Dalek: yes what do we need to ask them?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) How feasible is for them to change slightly the Group Voting tools?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. can we expect a timeframe for that?
Sudane Erato: but not regarding the sim purchase?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, that should be 2)
Talen Morgan: thats not really a question to ask but something to put in the feature discussion forum….even if they do like it they will take months to implement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) the group voting things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that depends. I remember that the Estate functions were implemented quite quickly, between two releases.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a question of prioritizing work.
Talen Morgan: thats true
Roberta Dalek: this wouldn’t be a priority really
Talen Morgan: but that impacted quite a few people who spend money…the group thing will have less impact me thinks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm probably
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so we need a scripter again…
Roberta Dalek: I still don’t understand what you want to ask the Lindens are how Haney comes into this
Roberta Dalek: and
Sudane Erato: With or without that, the private sim issue stands as the priority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I just feel that we should explain them our decisions, that’s all.
Talen Morgan: yes the land situation needs to be resolved one way or another
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: we have nothing needing a referendum to decide
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since they need 2 weeks for setting up the sim…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And perhaps some extra time for copying & pasting Anzere unto the new sim.
Talen Morgan: I dont think LL needs any explanation from us….
Sudane Erato: we need a timeline for that decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No explanation? Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: Talen, i agree
Talen Morgan: we can copy and paste the entire sim in minutes if need be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow. How??
Sudane Erato: but, Ulrika and Kendra deserve an explanation
Talen Morgan: this building for example
Roberta Dalek: yes – Ulrika and Kendra certainly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Talen Morgan: select all and drop the whole thing in one piece into inventory then drop it on the new land…keep all selected and position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: brb… just 1 min
Sudane Erato: talen, question from a newbie (me)
Sudane Erato: how do you select all?
Talen Morgan: hmmm been a while since I hgave done it myself I have to remember
Sudane Erato: if everything were linked…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I don’t really care about the ‘how’, lol. The great news is that it is POSSIBLE!
Sudane Erato: Good!
Talen Morgan: I have several of my houses in inventory that arent linked like that…basically click edit land and then ther structure
Talen Morgan: I’ll remember in time though lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: so, what’s next?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: back, sorry
Talen Morgan: click edit land then click then click the structure and all the pievces will be highlighted…then drag to inventory…when you drop click edit land first then drop and all will be selected
Sudane Erato: interesting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And when you drop it again, it will fit into the same way it was before?
Talen Morgan: nice when working with big builds that cant be tottaly linked
Talen Morgan: probably not but all will be selected so they will all move as one piece
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, talen, precisely. I have to tell that trick to lots of people, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time, we just approved the ‘no taxes on events’ bill…
Talen Morgan: just have to remember to click edit land before you drop the structure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a second bill to discuss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Regarding the ‘time of office’
Sudane Erato: term?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since last time there was just Sudane and me, we wanted to discuss that with more people present.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely, you, Talen…. lol
Talen Morgan: I think that should wait till we have a voting kiosk up and running
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, but we can discuss it
Roberta Dalek: well I think we should stay until we move – and then have naother election?
Talen Morgan: waiting for lil ol me lol
Sudane Erato: roberta, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill, s proposed by Ulrika, was to reduce it to 2 months.
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think we need another election when we are trying to move
Talen Morgan: personally I think the terms should be 4 months…I know most of the people involved and 2 months is too short
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This will be put to voting on the kiosk, but let’s have your opinion…
Sudane Erato: perhaps we should move, then call a new election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ulrika’s proposal was just for the NEXT election, not as a general rule!
Roberta Dalek: moving will be taking Neualtenburg out of beta, so to speak
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also agree upon that myself.
Talen Morgan: we will be version 1.0
Sudane Erato: good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this means that I will vote against Ulrika’s suggestion)
Roberta Dalek: I propose election after move
Sudane Erato: guess we all will
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, we move BEFORE the end of the Anzere lease.
Roberta Dalek: not in the middle of everything
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Talen proposed that we should use all the alloted time here “for free” to raise more money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree with that!
Sudane Erato: we must move before the end
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, one month before or so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 weeks notice for the Lindens to set up the new sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, around the beginning of May.
Talen Morgan: right now very few are even involed so I dont think election terms will make a difference seeing as the same people will probably be involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is also a very good argument
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Roberta Dalek: beginning of may is too late
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, here comes a tricky part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we are unanimous on that…
Roberta Dalek: as it is bound to slip
Sudane Erato: roberta, I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have 4 votes out of 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, unless any of us changes their voting at the kiosk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The probablity is that this Bill will not pass
Talen Morgan: why is that?
Sudane Erato: we have modified the bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re right.
Sudane Erato: so, now it will pass
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new bill is, elections after the move.
Sudane Erato: yes
Talen Morgan: but the other members should have their say as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be around May 22 or so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Talen.
Sudane Erato: it will be a celebration
Sudane Erato: but we should try to move earlier
Roberta Dalek: neu-neualtenburg
Talen Morgan: we can hold public executions to mark the event )
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: who?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fireworks would be more appropriate
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Talen Morgan: ok we can shoot them out of cannons
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Roberta Dalek: do we have an actual date when the 4 months is up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May 22
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Waiat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rechecking, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Haney sent me an email
Talen Morgan: thats about right I believe
Roberta Dalek: when did the lease end?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One of his telegraphic emails…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, on the 16th
Talen Morgan: jan 19th I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes
Sudane Erato: i do not see the benefir of staying here any longer than necessary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 19th was Monday if I recall correctly
Talen Morgan: there is great benefit
Sudane Erato: yes?
Talen Morgan: it gives us time to plan and it gives us time to earn money by using free land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here is the full text of Haney’s mail…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wanted you to know that the lease for Anzere has been extended to May 22, 2005 but won’t be extended further due to a change in Linden policy. We appreciate your work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: but we have not earned money so far..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 40 K, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not much, but something!
Sudane Erato: I see little likelyhood of our temporary stay causing a change in that
Talen Morgan: but we can make an effort to use this free resource to make money before the move and we will need some time to plan
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next bill, which we have discussed last meeting, was about renting houses.
Sudane Erato: I have only inspected Ulrika’s records
Roberta Dalek: we need to get the casino up and running – and we need to get the land ready before the 22nd so we can just open the sim when ready
Sudane Erato: gross reveniues were 28,000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry. Perhaps 28,000 is the correct figure
Sudane Erato: which meant 10% for neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, sorry
Sudane Erato: the rest for the artisans
Gwyneth Llewelyn: very true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes.
Talen Morgan: we can get the sim beforehand but I think we should use the land till the last minute
Roberta Dalek: yes
Roberta Dalek: as its a free resource
Sudane Erato: talen, i agree completely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, Talen, that would only be a question of a few weeks before May, 22
Sudane Erato: except, the tier then is very expensive
Talen Morgan: it is a free resource and I’m sure we can think of ways to use it to our advantage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: there is still tier here, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, actually, I need some clarification…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who runs the events, the RA or the Guild?
Talen Morgan: yes but very few are carrying the load as it were
Sudane Erato: some will need to carry the new load, too
Talen Morgan: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no!
Talen Morgan: only one
Roberta Dalek: the new sim won’t have tier
Sudane Erato: yes yes, i know
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘new load’ will be the city gathering US$195 every month in L$…
Talen Morgan: the new sim can only be owned by one person
Roberta Dalek: which means that we need to *do* stuff to make money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed!
Sudane Erato: but i’m saying that there will need to be the responsibility shared
Talen Morgan: yes and getting the rental houses and casino if it is agreed on up
Sudane Erato: Uma must keep a positive balance in her bank account!
Roberta Dalek: I have 15 minutes left btw
Talen Morgan: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. You’re talking about the ‘worse case scenario’, meaning, if we CANNOT get around L$ 30,000 every month, what happens then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I have to go as well)
Sudane Erato: well, yes i am.
Roberta Dalek: Well we haven’t come close yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is a suggestion on a ‘citizen’s tax’
Sudane Erato: I got very discouraged examining Ulrika’s records
Roberta Dalek: No work was done on the economy, this is why
Roberta Dalek: It is do-able
Sudane Erato: yes, and this must change
Sudane Erato: and until it changes, some must take responsibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about the ‘citizen’s tax’?
Roberta Dalek: Okay – renting houses – I propse that we parcel each house – and rent for a market rent using a script to maintain payments
Sudane Erato: yes, i like that idea
Talen Morgan: if housing and a casino are implemented we will start to see good numbers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 60 citizens, paying 500 per month…
Talen Morgan: and we will get merchants to come in as well
Sudane Erato: but then there must be a real incentive to be a “citizen”
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn – basics would just leave
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s assume that many will drop Neualtenburg because of the taxes, but we can raise them to L$1000/month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Talen Morgan: taxing is the wrong choice
Roberta Dalek: we need to do stuff first
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: lets rent and build the casino and see what the shiortfall is
Talen Morgan: rental units will work but if you tax them on top of that no one will live there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah talen, I was just trying to cover the ‘worse case scenario’ in case not even renting and the casino and the item sales bring a profit…
Roberta Dalek: and then see if we need a flat tax
Talen Morgan: merchants will be taxed as well
Sudane Erato: someone needs to be “fallback” responsible
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just brainstorming, lol
Sudane Erato: just like now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, uh, Sudane… we (I mean the RA!) is!
Talen Morgan: I have no problem with helping with costs
Sudane Erato: nor i
Talen Morgan: the sim will take time to become self sufficient
Roberta Dalek: Ok – as time is limited do we have agreement to start work on the house renting and casino so we don’t have to wait another week?
Sudane Erato: it just must be agreed that this will be necessary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can certainly share 1/7th of the cost of the sim… no problem!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta, those need a vote at the kiosk as well
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: I suggest we try to approve them
Sudane Erato: however
Sudane Erato: here, or kiosk
Talen Morgan: and we must be careful if it does pass to let those know that the lease is up in may
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have ANOTHER idea… IM voting.
Talen Morgan: I say we use the forums for this first vote while we get the kiosk started
Sudane Erato: yes, that could be good
Sudane Erato: IM voting
Talen Morgan: use the pole option for each item
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forum voting, then… fine by me!
Roberta Dalek: as an interim measure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can see who voted on the polls? I didn’t know that….
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: talen, it must be the private forum then
Sudane Erato: or the public will vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Talen Morgan: yes you can set up the pole so you can see who voted for what
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Ok. That’s great to know. Does that work on Christiano’s forums as well?
Talen Morgan: I dont know about SL universe forums but we can check
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Sudane Erato: lets agree to continue this there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree…
Roberta Dalek: I have to go now
Talen Morgan: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too

Sudane Erato: unless we hear otherwise, same time next week?
Talen Morgan: I think we got a lot accomplished
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a lot, lol, but at least something. The private sim idea was finally sorted out
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because last week we were very sceptic about it…
Talen Morgan: thats a lot in my book lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But now it seems that it’s the best choice, by far!
Roberta Dalek: and we’ve agreed to vote on money making suggestions
Talen Morgan: wait till aLL OF US ARE PRESENT AND SEE HOW MUCH GETS DONE LOL
Roberta Dalek: which is a priority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good point, hehe
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta. I *have* been getting some suggestions from business investors in SL…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, no clear trends…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some say ‘tear it all apart and just put casinos and malls’
Roberta Dalek: well they would
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Others say ‘invest in GOM’
Talen Morgan: if you are speaking of Ginko and Jaqueline they don’t know as much as they pretend to
Roberta Dalek: we can be a pogressive projevt and be solvent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, that’s really INTERESTING
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love gossip ))
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have heard a very similar argument from a friend, but I dismissed it, actually.
Talen Morgan: they will tell you all manner of things but never give you the back up on it….they have both been held to the fire in the general forums and have come up wanting
Roberta Dalek: their bank looks like a pyramid scheme tbh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmmmmmm
Talen Morgan: it is …he’s using it to fund his casino…if he ever gets nailed by a few high jackpots the bank goes under
Roberta Dalek: anyway we can do a hell of a lot better
Talen Morgan: I know the games they use and its a very real possibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just do it the ‘traditional way’… casinos, items, rentals, events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: yes – we just need to do them
Sudane Erato: maybe Neualt should start a bank?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, thanks a lot for that piece of info, lol
Roberta Dalek: we’d need to decide what the bank would be for and how it would make any money
Talen Morgan: just rememeb whoever owns the casino needs to keep about 10-20 k on them at all times to cover possible wins
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s too soon, Sudane… but another thing I’d like to see – perhaps in 2006 – is an Arbitration and Moderation service
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, a Private Court.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s very true, Talen
Talen Morgan: mostly never happens but it can
Roberta Dalek: the casino would need to be owned by the treasury I presume
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: well no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, you’re the SECOND person telling me that, but I’ve dismissed the other guy’s opinion. Now I’m not so sure if he was just ranting or if he really knew what he was talking about. Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, you just need the machines to deal transactions with Uma Bauhaus.
Talen Morgan: the trerasury should be kept seperate and the casino owner should only keep funds for the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes
Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset
Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I’m sorry… Roberta must leave, and so do I.
Roberta Dalek: yep
Roberta Dalek: I am supposed to be hosting at 12
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, thanks a lot for your ideas, lol
Roberta Dalek: lets hope we get progress
Sudane Erato: yes, thank you all!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ve got 1 minute to teleport, Roberta…
Talen Morgan: no problem thats what we’re all here for
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I surely hope so.,
Roberta Dalek: bye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… meeting adjourned? lol
Talen Morgan: yup
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, let me just keep a copy of history….

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 20, 2005

Lance LeFay: Maybe we should get started without the rest..?
Sudane Erato: we could.
Lance LeFay: This is my first one, I just got the invite today.
Lance LeFay: Because Pendari is out, or something.
Sudane Erato: Yes, so welcome welcome!
Roberta Dalek: welcome to RA lance
Lance LeFay: Thanks
Roberta Dalek: sudane do you want to chair?
Sudane Erato: In the penguin i put the bills
Sudane Erato: Well, I guess
Sudane Erato: feel a bit shy about that
Roberta Dalek: i will if you want
Sudane Erato: sure!
Roberta Dalek: ok
Roberta Dalek: Can someone else take the chat log as minutes to post on the forums?
Sudane Erato: yes, i can do that
Roberta Dalek: great! lets start
Lance LeFay: I have an object for that, somewhere..
Roberta Dalek: does everyone have the bills
Lance LeFay: Yup
Sudane Erato: you have a chat recorder?
Lance LeFay: Yeah, I do
Lance LeFay: I made it for the first Neualtenburg meeting
Sudane Erato: we’ve got to talk… later
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 1 Elimination of the Events Tax.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 2 RA Elections in 2 Months.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 3 Authorizing Residential Rentals.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 4 Authorizing the Casino.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 5 Recruiting New Members.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 6 A Money System.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 7 Talen Morgan to replace Pendari Lorentz.
Roberta Dalek: Ok – I propose that we go through each bill in turn
Sudane Erato: yes, good
Lance LeFay: Numerically?
Sudane Erato: sure.
Roberta Dalek: but first of all we need to formally welcome Lance to the RA – representing the MPP – replacing Pendrai Lorenz
Roberta Dalek: So welcome Lance LeFay
Lance LeFay: Right, but Talen is the head, or at least that’s what was voted on
Sudane Erato: agreed!
Sudane Erato: yes,
Roberta Dalek: Talen is the head but is absent from this meeting
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn is online
Roberta Dalek: Gywn is the head of the SDF but is also absent
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn!
Lance LeFay: Speaking of which!
Roberta Dalek: yay
Sudane Erato: she appears to be coming
Lance LeFay: I love it when hair loads.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry I’m late 🙁
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn!
Lance LeFay: It’s okay, we just started
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn – the bills are in Sudane’s penguin, lance’s chat recorder is taking minutes, amd i was chairing in your absence
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh thanks a lot, Roberta!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a big, warm welcome to lance 🙂
Lance LeFay: Thank yeh
Roberta Dalek: done!
Sudane Erato: Yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, and thanks as well for the ‘bill penguin’, Sudane 🙂
Roberta Dalek: Gywn – would you like the chair back?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh no, please go on, Roberta :)(
Roberta Dalek: I’ve propsoed going through each bill in turn
Roberta Dalek: Has everyone got the bills?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just not me yet, lol
Lance LeFay: I’m sure Bill here would be happy to give them to you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, got them!
Sudane Erato: 🙂 I just think of him as Penguin 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
Lance LeFay: Maybe we should vote on it? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol why not?
Roberta Dalek: Bill #1 has already been agreed. That was the elimination of the events tax due to changes in event support
Sudane Erato: Yes. Just put there for completeness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think we can safely go to the next one…
Lance LeFay: Agreed, next bill.
Roberta Dalek: Bill #2 was proposed by Ulrika and wanted the next RA elections to take place in March. The previous consensus of discussion was that we should wait until we move
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: This hasn’t been formally voted on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we should take a formal vote now, since we have certainly over 50% of the RA attending…
Sudane Erato: There appear to be many strong opinions about this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but I also remember that Talen thought that 4 months were ok…
Sudane Erato: I would support the wait til after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we can set the elections for, say, end of May (after the move)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that will make everybody happy 🙂
Roberta Dalek: yes – lets have a discussion – I propose that it is guillotined at 10.30 – and then a vote
Lance LeFay: Sounds good to me.
Sudane Erato: guillotined?
Lance LeFay: Cut off
Sudane Erato: what an image 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha 😀
Lance LeFay: Certianly gets the point across.
Roberta Dalek: we have a lot of business to get through – so having a time limit for each dicussion will ensure we get through most of it – I hope
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re good at this, Roberta, we should have you permanently as Chair 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lance LeFay: Okay, so, about the march election dates.
Sudane Erato: May
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me present Ulrika’s argumens (not mine) on this.
Lance LeFay: The bill says march, doesn’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika wanted a ‘shorter first term’.
Roberta Dalek: Ulrika’s proposal was that it will help keep the group engaged politically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm
Roberta Dalek: Go Gwyn
Sudane Erato: Sorry, right. March is what Ulrika proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that Ulrika proposed this because she also feels that we are really ‘just starting’
Sudane Erato: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that lots of things have really to be in place before we have the Government thingie really operational…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So her idea was, let’s have a short term first, concentrate on putting all things we need in place, and do a new election…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new Government will then start with much more things in place!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I’m strictly speaking for Ulrika, and not my own opinion 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, thinks that the RA should have a 4-month term, as suggested in the forums.
Roberta Dalek: Are you finsihed/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I think I’ll just add that I respect Ulrika’s opinion, but I tend to agree with Talen.
Roberta Dalek: My position would be that the most important thing to set up would be the land we need for our continuation
Roberta Dalek: and we should wait until we move – and have a new RA as a new start
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: I feel that Ulrika has over estimated the involvement in the political process…
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think we need elections in the middle of everything else
Sudane Erato: both elections and on-going RA
Lance LeFay: I agree with Talen as well. I don’t think the RA has had enough time yet (or will by the 20th) to accomplish much.
Lance LeFay: But should establish itself by May.
Sudane Erato: I think we need to establish stability, even with our newly elected unit
Sudane Erato: Then, immediately after we are re-located, we call new elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m silent, because I fully agree with all your views 🙂
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: So we are talking about elections in the end of may
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: I suggest elections immediately after e-location, whenever that is
Roberta Dalek: I propose amending Ulrika’s bill and replacing 19th/20th March will the end of May
Roberta Dalek: *with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a short interruption… technically, we should do the following: 1) Vote on the proposed bill (elections in March) and 2) if the bill does not pass, amend it or 3) submit a new bill with a new date.
Roberta Dalek: ty
Roberta Dalek: Ok – lets vote on the bill as currently stands
Lance LeFay: Nay here.
Chat Recorder: blah
Roberta Dalek: nay
Chat Recorder: blah
Chat Recorder: blah
Roberta Dalek: nay
Chat Recorder: blah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain…
Chat Recorder: blah
Lance LeFay: Uhoh..
Chat Recorder: blah
Sudane Erato: No
Chat Recorder: blah
Lance LeFay: Chat recorder bugged..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it only reply to aye and nay?
Sudane Erato: whats with the chat recorder?
Roberta Dalek: I record that as 3 nay, and one abstention
Sudane Erato: good
Roberta Dalek: The bill therefore falls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, Lance, you can fix that later 🙂
Lance LeFay: It ran out of memory on one script and tried to go to the next.. but it didn’t work for some reason.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, should we propose an amendment to the bill, then?
Lance LeFay: My scripts always break at the worst possible moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 🙂
Roberta Dalek: Please propose an amendment
Sudane Erato: Lance, I’ll keep it
Lance LeFay: Yes- general consensus seems to be end of may, yes?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: OK, I’ll go with it. So the date is definite
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose a suggestion…
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t know *exactly* the date for the ‘official move’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d propose the 2nd weekend after LL has given us the new sim and we have entirely copied Neualtenburg to the new sim
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This could be slightly eariler or later than May 30th.
Lance LeFay: Do we know that we actually are getting a sim?
Sudane Erato: that would be closer to my feelings about it
Lance LeFay: I’ve been out of the loop for a little bit.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or May 31st, lol. Forgot that May has 31 days 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Lance, but our consensus is that we should have one private sim. However, this is something to be discussed yet…
Lance LeFay: Right, funding could be an… issue.
Sudane Erato: A bill has not been prepared about this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely. We need to know how much income we get from casino & rentals first.
Roberta Dalek: this leads on to the discussions around the casino and rentals
Sudane Erato: Guess we must. 🙂
Roberta Dalek: so I propose that we leave this until later in the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So I suggest amending the bill to have elections on the 2nd weekend after the move.
Lance LeFay: Agreed- we should pick it back up during the casino bill.
Sudane Erato: Agreed
Roberta Dalek: what is for sure is that we have to move *somewhere*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we vote on that amendment then?
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on Gymn’s amendement
Lance LeFay: Why exactly are we going to have to move? Have the lindens said that they’re cutting the project after this lease?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes.
Lance LeFay: Ah.
Roberta Dalek: change of LL policy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they stopped promoting ‘finantially’ residents’ projects.
Roberta Dalek: so.. all those in favour of gywn’s amendment
Lance LeFay: But don’t we have the tier for this?
Lance LeFay: Aye.
Roberta Dalek: but not the land
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: In favor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to be consisten, I abstain again.
Roberta Dalek: okay – i record that as 3 in favour and one abstention
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: the bill as amended passes
Roberta Dalek: me and sudane to organise – and lance to be kept in the loop if he has time
Sudane Erato: Agreed. Roberta, we can set a time after the mtg
Lance LeFey: It’s manageable in a single day, if we devote a couple hours to it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika also suggested that we should do it one Viertel at a time.
Sudane Erato: is that a section?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: a ‘quarter’, hehe
Roberta Dalek: its a city quarter
Sudane Erato: my German is non-existent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Viertel = quarter
Sudane Erato: ahhh 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a ‘block’ if you prefer. A ‘neighbourhood’. Whetever. in our city map, each Viertel has it’s own colour…
Lance LeFey: ALabaster, are you actually still there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blue, red, green, magenta.
Sudane Erato: he is 🙂
Roberta Dalek: i don’t see him
Lance LeFey: He’s back here
Lance LeFey: I think he’s AFK though.
Alabaster Mendicant: hadahfdaahf
Lance LeFey: I… see.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. hello Alabaster, I failed completely to notice you 🙂
Alabaster Mendicant: dont worry
Alabaster Mendicant: im afk
Lance LeFey: He’s been there since before you got here 😉
Roberta Dalek: ok – well observers are allowed – but he can’t contribute as he’s not a member of the ra or of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, this is a public meeting to HEAR, not to speak 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: ok – shall i take a formal group on the setting up of the survey team?
Sudane Erato: he’s been very quiet
Roberta Dalek: vote
Sudane Erato: sure, but I guess we should write this up, too
Roberta Dalek: the survey team will report back *something* by the next RA meeting
Sudane Erato: good
Lance LeFey: Sounds good.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Anyway, one thing we can say is that property rentals will be valid only until the ‘move date’, or May 22nd, whichever comes first, to be honest with our ‘rentees’….
Sudane Erato: In favor
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ‘aye’ on that as well
Sudane Erato: Not again!
Roberta Dalek: okay – 4 in favour of the setting up of the survey group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Roberta Dalek: that passes
Roberta Dalek: all those in favour of rentals being until move date?
Roberta Dalek: aye
Lance LeFey: Aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Roberta Dalek: four in favour – passes
Roberta Dalek: Do we need to do anything else on this issue until next week?
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Lance LeFey: I don’t think so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is something on Sudane’s amendment on the bill that we should discuss as well, and is fully independent of ‘available houses’ or ‘how much should we charge’ which we will probably discuss next meeting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: I’d like to understand and study the rent-a-cube concept
Sudane Erato: mostly so we understand the issues
Roberta Dalek: ok – I can take you to see some if we want
Sudane Erato: I think the “no landlord” concept is very attractive
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point is, should renting be done to ‘citizens’, should rentees become automatically citizens, or should they have a separate status?
Roberta Dalek: and will try and get a notecard from the creator
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, that’s another important point
Roberta Dalek: I think rentees should be citizens – as they are living here
Lance LeFey: I don’t think citizenship should be mandatory for Rentees
Lance LeFey: We’d get far less rentals, and if we’re going to be depending on rentals for income
Lance LeFey: That’s a bad thing.
Sudane Erato: I think that needs to be part of the Bill of Rights discussion
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane… to clarify the rent-o-matic… it’s simply a ‘clock’, set to send IMs to people if they don’t pay in time, and alert the owner when someone did not pay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to citizenship… hmm
Roberta Dalek: its a box that people pay to rent a space – if they do not pay the space becomes available for rent againa
Sudane Erato: Must be more than a clock, since it controls the permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have very serious problems with ‘outsider renting’. My feeling is , whoever lives in Neualtenburg, contributes to the project, so they should ‘become’ citizens automatically.
Lance LeFey: It can’t really be more than a clock
Roberta Dalek: not it doesn’t control permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, it doesn’t control permissions
Sudane Erato: Ahh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That needs manual intervention
Lance LeFey: I think that membership, as always should be open, even encouraged to renters, but not mandatory.
Roberta Dalek: normally renters expect objects to be set to a group – so that auto return can be set on the land
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, lets make that discussion a Bill of Rights thing
Roberta Dalek: to remove crap automaticallt
Sudane Erato: Can we have a person or committe draft one?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance. My problem is ‘what about someone who wants to rent space but doesn’t want to be a citizen?;
Lance LeFey: Then that’s fine. However, in the city, they still have to abide by our rules
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we have a few drafts on the forums already, Sudane!
Lance LeFey: Or they’re evicted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance, they would have ‘immigrant status’ in that case.
Sudane Erato: Citizenship, Rights and benefits, and Obligations
Sudane Erato: sorry, didn’t see them
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we leave this until the next meeting
Roberta Dalek: and we get a concrete document to discuss
Sudane Erato: then we should form one and bring it as a bill
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll *try* to read all what was on the forums, and sketch out a resumed version on all discussions, and add a few of my own ideas (including the ‘immigrant status’)
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, aye, I agree on Roberta’s proposal
Sudane Erato: that would be great, if you can
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s hope so, lol, my past 2 weeks were utter nightmare 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (RL work, hehe)
Roberta Dalek: Ok – shall we call this discussion on bill 3 to a close for this meeting – and i’ll recap on what we have agreed
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Roberta Dalek: we agreed in principal to rent residential properties
Lance LeFey: Agreed
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye 🙂
Roberta Dalek: we agreed to survey the hosues we have and report back to the next meeting
Roberta Dalek: this is areview
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: we’ve already voted 🙂
Lance LeFey: Yes, the agreed I said was to do the review.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right :))))
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: we agreed that the mex rental should be until the move date
Roberta Dalek: max
Sudane Erato: yes.
Roberta Dalek: we agreed to come back to everything else 😉
Sudane Erato: yes
Lance LeFey: So, bill 4, then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right 🙂
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 – authorising the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, have you told Lance and Roberta about the ‘possible friction’ we had?
Roberta Dalek: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, bill #4 is included here just as a reference, we have already approved the casino…
Roberta Dalek: we haven’t when i checked
Lance LeFey: What is the friction?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. There seemed to be a slight misunderstanding on *who* would build it, and what was the ‘style’ to be adopted
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think quorum has been reached
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have two volunteers, Talen and Ulrika
Sudane Erato: well, i visited the site, figuring that Talen would be building…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen favours a build integrated into neualtenburgs’ ‘medieval’ setting
Lance LeFey: I’d go with Talen, just because Ulrika has done just about everything else.
Sudane Erato: but Ulrika has already started a building
Lance LeFey: Ah..
Sudane Erato: The style is really not the issue
Roberta Dalek: did Ulrika check with anyone before doing this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, would in any case get the machines, set up stuff, etc
Lance LeFey: Well, she started it without approval, didn’t she?
Sudane Erato: Or, even who does it
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Lance LeFey: This brings me to something I’ve been wondering about..
Roberta Dalek: I note that the in wordl tools say that the bill hasn’t even passed yet
Lance LeFey: How set up is the artisinal guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Technically, yes, Lance. She started it without an ‘approval’
Roberta Dalek: I’m not convinced the guild fucntions
Lance LeFey: Because it seems the report and the casino would be passed to the guild
Sudane Erato: I’ve spoken a bit with Catfart
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aah yes, another problem there, lance. Kendra is our Guildmeisterinn, but she doesn;t have much free time now, so the Guild will be run by Catfart for a while .
Lance LeFey: But if it isn’t really working, we don’t have much of a choice but to have RAers do it, do we?
Roberta Dalek: ok – thats fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe we should propose a bill to shake up the Guild a bit 🙂
Sudane Erato: I think so, tho Cat has said he’s interested in working
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we don’t reward Ulrika for satrting without approval
Lance LeFey: Agreed
Sudane Erato: No no. I think we should do anything to get a casino going, no matter who starts it.
Roberta Dalek: and that the decision on the style is taken by the guild (Catfart), in consultation with Talen who will be setting up the thing
Lance LeFey: While Ulrika’s intentions are good, she has been overstepping her bounds a bit. She started this project to get a representitive government going, didn’t she?
Sudane Erato: We must avoid a conflict!
Sudane Erato: Yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain on that vote as well, I mean, I won’t either encourage or discourage Ulrika. There are lots of things done in Neualtenburg without ‘proper approval’ because we couldn’t meet in time 🙁 On the other hand, I also don’t think we should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: encourage private initiatives
Sudane Erato: I agree with Gwyn
Lance LeFey: Right, this whole project is about organization and collaboration
Roberta Dalek: well if this is going to happen we do actually need to decide
Lance LeFey: We need to focus on that primarily
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed on that, lance.
Sudane Erato: I have tried to find Talen this weekend, to no avail
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too, Sudane 🙁 🙁
Lance LeFey: On a side note, about the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He was not 100% sure if he would have some time left…
Lance LeFey: I have an idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s hear ideas 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: We can’t take a “we mustn’t offend anyone” position as nothing will ever happen otherwise
Lance LeFey: Instead of doing the survey of the residences ourselves
Lance LeFey: We should comission the guild to do it
Sudane Erato: No, it needs to get done!
Lance LeFey: So we can test and see if the guild can actually function at this time.
Roberta Dalek: No we need to do it pronto
Lance LeFey: Let’s be honest here- the renting is probobly not going to work before we move. Isn’t the move date March 22nd?
Sudane Erato: I propose to work with Cat on the budget
Sudane Erato: that will see if the Guild can do anything
Lance LeFey: That’s barely more than a month from now, and we arn’t even going to work on pricing or details untill next meeting
Roberta Dalek: ok
Lance LeFey: After that the script needs to get set up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move date is May 22nd
Roberta Dalek: of course
Lance LeFey: Well, then yeah
Sudane Erato: I think the RA should simply approve or dis-approve what the committe suggests
Lance LeFey: Let’s get working on that
Roberta Dalek: I’m lost here
Sudane Erato: yes
Lance LeFey: Never mind what I was saying
Roberta Dalek: What are we agreeing to?
Lance LeFey: I had the date wrong..
Roberta Dalek: Ok – we have already agreed to do a survey – I presume that still stands
Sudane Erato: yes!
Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well, Lance, sometimes it’s great to get the dates wrong, understand that we need to move fast in either case 🙂 So I can agree with your concerns!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the survey stands, and the RA is going to do it.
Sudane Erato: yes, we MUST move fast!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, a RA-nominated commitee, to be more precise!
Sudane Erato: Thats why the casino matter is a setback
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the casino…
Coreina Grace is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I suggest that we do a ‘general vote;
Roberta Dalek: As far as I understand it – the discision on the style of the building should be taken by the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s correct, Roberta
Sudane Erato: 🙁
Roberta Dalek: so we leave that to catfart
Lance LeFey: Right, and as far as I understand the structure, so should the architect
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can technically interfere, lol
Sudane Erato: I disagree
Lance LeFey: However, the unapproved initiative is a matter for the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s correct, Lance.
Sudane Erato: I think we should encourage the building however it gets done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: no 1 – we need to give the overall yay or nay to the idea of a casino
Sudane Erato: Which I think the on-line vote did?
Lance LeFey: I think that’s been agreed, but let’s vote
Roberta Dalek: this hasn’t happened yet according to the in group voting
Lance LeFey: I vote Aye.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought differently before this meeting, but I really think that’s overstepping on our ‘powers’. Ulrika is a Meister in the Guild and I think that Talen as well. So if it’s their job, they should be doing it as best as they can
Sudane Erato: which means?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Sudane, i have checked, the in-world vote hasn’t finished yet because I got the dates wrong 🙁
Roberta Dalek: we are deciding on whether to have one or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I vote aye on the casino.
Sudane Erato: oh 🙁
Roberta Dalek: so far I have three votes in favour
Lance LeFey: So Gwyn- Aye? Or nay?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry, aye aye aye
Roberta Dalek: okay – 4 votes in favour – propsoal passes
Roberta Dalek: yay!
Sudane Erato: goord!
Sudane Erato: good
DRoberta Dalek: the dispte within the guild should be dealt with by the guild?
Lance LeFey: Aye
Sudane Erato: we don’t know there is a dispute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point! But I think that should be a problem for the Guild as well
Roberta Dalek: we know that there is conflict
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Catfart should dela with it. I vote on having the Guild to sort it out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *deal
Roberta Dalek: and we know we need to get a move on
Roberta Dalek: okay – lets vote that cartfart should eal with it
Lance LeFey: Aye.
Roberta Dalek: deal
Lance LeFey: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: sorry, i’m getting confused
Sudane Erato: IM’s and chat
Lance LeFey: We’re voting that Catfart should deal with the dispute.
Roberta Dalek: okay – we are voting on the fact that any dispute over the style of the casino should be dealt with by the guild ie catfart
Sudane Erato: i think he will not
Roberta Dalek: well it is his job to do so
Roberta Dalek: if he does not then we need to revists
Roberta Dalek: revisit
Sudane Erato: we can vote that he should, but he will not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the wording in the bill should be: ‘We think that the Guild should work it out’ If Catfart is willing or not, well, that’s his problem 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta!
Sudane Erato: OK, that would be better, I guess
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
Lance LeFey: Okay, so, are we done with Bill 4?
Lance LeFey: Aye.
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: okay -so 4 ayes – vote passes
Roberta Dalek: we agree that the guild should work it out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, perhaps I should point out a detail on the casino bill…
Roberta Dalek: end of bill 4!
Roberta Dalek: oh ok
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which are the nitty-gritty details on the finantial plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane suggested that she (representing the RA) and the Guild representative for the casino should work them out – together.
Nate007 Groshomme is online
Sudane Erato: It was a suggestion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to propose that Sudane should deal with that in the RA’s name.
Sudane Erato: Someone must
Roberta Dalek: yes I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let’s turn the ‘suggestion’ in a ‘formal proposal’
Lance LeFey: It sounds good to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “We, the Members of the RA, formally endow Sudane Erato as our representative for setting up the operating and financial plan for the casino to be created, working together with the Guild representative”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suonds formal enough? 🙂
Lance LeFey: Yup/
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: I accept if all agree
Lance LeFey: So, to the voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on having Sudane as representative.
Lance LeFey: AYe.
Roberta Dalek: lets vote
Roberta Dalek: aye
Lance LeFey: Four ayes, then?
Sudane Erato: aye
Roberta Dalek: ok
Roberta Dalek: 4 vote in favour – vote passed
Vivianne OFlynn is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is also a sub-item: the place for the casino.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Antagonistic Protagonist is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s trivial, but since it’s technically ‘city space’ beyond the original project, to make it very clear, I also feel that we should have a formal agreement
Lance LeFey: The space past the bridge?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The reasoning for the place on the far side of the bridge: 1) it’s outside the city walls 2) it’s near the telehub
Sudane Erato: The important thing is the foundation, since it must carry to the new Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes, that one
Sudane Erato: I think the locatation now is not so important
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, the Guild should figure out how it looks…
Sudane Erato: Because in 2 months it will be moved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we should say WHERE it should be!
Roberta Dalek: yes – so any proposal should be until the date of move
Sudane Erato: shrug
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but the casino will be built BEFORE we move!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why i think we should agree upon the location.
Lance LeFey: I think the proposed location is fine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think it’s fine.
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: Agreed
Roberta Dalek: lets take a formal vote on it
Lance LeFey: Aye here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
Sudane Erato: Aye
Roberta Dalek: eye here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Roberta Dalek: okay – 4 in favour – proposal passes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There goes #4 🙂 I don’t have anything else to bother you on that one…
Roberta Dalek: yay
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Talen Morgan: greetingsd all
Roberta Dalek: welcome talen
Lance LeFey: Hey Talen
Lance LeFey: We just finished Bill four.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Talen, welcome, and join us, please!
Roberta Dalek: we have just approved the casino bill
Talen Morgan: cool
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Roberta Dalek: what was agreed will be in the minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lance LeFey: The formal party.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The frozen Party!
Roberta Dalek: the penguin is the bill provider
Sudane Erato: He’s got the bills
Roberta Dalek: I am chairing
Talen Morgan: nice
Roberta Dalek: on to bill 5
Talen Morgan: whoa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touch it to get them, talen, and we’ll go to #5
Talen Morgan: theres already been 4 bills passed
Talen Morgan: may I get a recap
Lance LeFey: Well, the first one was just for reference
Lance LeFey: It was the elimination of the event tax
Roberta Dalek: bill 2 was amended to say after the move
Roberta Dalek: bill 3 we are doing a survey of rentable properties *this week*
Roberta Dalek: bill 3- we approved in principal renting residential properties
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 – we approved the casino in porincipal, and the location
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 – we nominated sudane to deal with the details on behalf of the ra
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 -style of building should be left to the guild to deal with any disputes
Talen Morgan: what details
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, the details on the finantial and operational plan…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is up to the Guild, really 🙂
Lance LeFey: Right, we decided that Catfart will deal with the current issues with the casino.
Talen Morgan: what issues?
Roberta Dalek: if he doesn’t for any reason then we will have to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since he’s the Assistant Guildemeister.
Roberta Dalek: we understand that Ulkrika has started building without approval
Talen Morgan: ahhh
Talen Morgan: i thought she was building a museum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is another thing, Talen…
Sudane Erato: At the location of the casino, she has started a building
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Talen Morgan: gotcha
Sudane Erato: and I am concerned that it may inteference with your effort to start one
Sudane Erato: you had offered to start this weekend
Talen Morgan: yes I could start today and I have off tomorrow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s excellent 🙂
Sudane Erato: that would be great!
Sudane Erato: but we must deal with the walls already there
Talen Morgan: but what style of building will it be…old…modern?/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Well, Talen is a group officer, so that shouldn’t be much of a problem.
Talen Morgan: we are officers we can remove them if need be lol
Roberta Dalek: accessible is the most important issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen… that’s something for the Guild to decide, really, not the RA
Lance LeFey: I just had an idea…
Talen Morgan: but the guild didnt approve her build to be placed their either
Lance LeFey: You know how Billy Madison has a private sim (more than one?) and is deploying, so he can’t pay the tier (or doesn’t want to)?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Talen Morgan: i already talked to him…waiting for him to get back to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… we discussed this, and I proposed that ‘allowing a casino to be built’, since it’s not in the original plan, is a question for the RA. And we said, yes, let’s have a casino.
Lance LeFey: We could potentially get one from him, if we could come up with the tier.
Talen Morgan: we could possibly get it for 650
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, as to the style, and the particulars…
Sudane Erato: guys, separate issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Ok, enough recapping, hehe
Roberta Dalek: okay – lets finish off the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s move to #5
Roberta Dalek: and then take this as a separate issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: no – if lance can build this weekend then we do need to decide
Roberta Dalek: not lance – talen
Lance LeFey: Er, yeah 🙂
Lance LeFey: You do NOT want me to build.
Talen Morgan: lol
Sudane Erato: but we did decide, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is there to decide, Roberta? The casino is approved. It’s now up to the Guild to do what they feel it’s best
Roberta Dalek: we didn’t decide what to do with Ulrika’s build
Sudane Erato: ASAP!
Roberta Dalek: we passed it onto the guild ie catfart
Lance LeFey: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: perhaps Talen and Ulrika can discuss it
Lance LeFey: We should set him a deadline to resolve this
Roberta Dalek: is this okay – or do we need to decide?
Object: Your object ‘Object’ has been returned to you from parcel ‘Schloss Neualtenburg’ at Anzere 227, 189.
Talen Morgan: then we are agreed that nothing will happen until the guild responds correct
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta… we have decided that Catfart should deal with that.
Roberta Dalek: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Argh.
Talen Morgan: we cant decide guild matters
Roberta Dalek: okay – fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, we can’t.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the Guild, if I remind you, is NOT democratic 🙂
Sudane Erato: May we issue a formal and urgent request for the guild to decide this by tomorrow!
Talen Morgan: i can start building on my property and drop it when we are ready though
Roberta Dalek: Talen – go for it
Sudane Erato: That would be good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. that’s an EXCELLENT suggestion 🙂
Talen Morgan: just need to know what size we think is appropriate and style
Sudane Erato: Size to fit.. there is not much space
Roberta Dalek: which is for the guild/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This really just needs one very simple thing from catfart – just saying ‘Talen is going to do the work for us’
Roberta Dalek: the size we know from the location
Sudane Erato: to the right of the bridge
Sudane Erato: as you go out
Talen Morgan: lets look at the location after the meeting and I’ll figure it out
Roberta Dalek: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure!
Sudane Erato: good
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we take the Billy Madison thig now as emergency business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5…?
Roberta Dalek: before bill 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah drats
Talen Morgan: no bills first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me check how much tier he has.
Roberta Dalek: as we have 20 mins
Talen Morgan: then new business
Sudane Erato: 🙂 the democratic process
Talen Morgan: billy isnt doing anything with the sim until he talks to me anyway
Sudane Erato: good, teell him we are a discussion party to the talks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok. So, we could at least agree that we are interested in talking with billy
Lance LeFey: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, Sudane, my words exactly, hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5…?!?
Roberta Dalek: okay – I propose that we authorise Talen to talk to Billy
Sudane Erato: yes!
Roberta Dalek: on behalf ot eh ra
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on talen talking to Billy in the RA’s name.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Talen Morgan: works for me
Sudane Erato: yes
Lance LeFey: AYe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous again 🙂
Roberta Dalek: 4 in favour – proposal passed
Lance LeFey: Sorry I was silent there for a second, had to take a phone call
Roberta Dalek: 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, 5 in favour, Roberta…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Roberta Dalek: okay!
Roberta Dalek: back to bill 5
Lance LeFey: Seriously, is there anything we’re not in agreement on here?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… #5, about the ‘recruiting events’
Talen Morgan: the penguin said Nay I think
Sudane Erato: 🙂 no it didn’t
Penguin: Nay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I disagree totally on that bill, on the grounds that all events are guild stuff, and not RA stuff.
Talen Morgan: see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Talen Morgan: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Lance LeFey: 🙂
Lance LeFey: Right, so, bill 5.
Roberta Dalek: I agree – events are a matter for the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me repeat my voting statement on #5… Events are the guild’s responsability, not the RA’s.
Sudane Erato: But Gwyn, we must cause recruitung to happen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s something entirely different, Sudane
Sudane Erato: And…
Sudane Erato: how…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, yes, we should encourage the Guild to set up ‘recruiting events’
Lance LeFey: Right. We need to find an alternate way to encourage membership.. but the RA should not hold events
Sudane Erato: Let me understand..
Sudane Erato: The Guild are the crafts?
Lance LeFey: I think we should comission the guild for an ad campaign.. but that’s for another bill
Talen Morgan: we shouldnt be discussing events unless we are talking taxes or problems with events
Lance LeFey: The guild are crafts, culture, etc.
Sudane Erato: the craetors of sellable things?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, since I’m a Guild member myself, and will probably share with Catfart the responsability of event coordination, I’ll probably accept bill #5 internally in the Guild 🙂 🙂 🙂
Lance LeFey: I’m a guildy too.
Sudane Erato: sigh**
Talen Morgan: i’m a guild member also and you have my support
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me try to explain my reasoning…
Roberta Dalek: please do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Crafts (including events) are the responsability of the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s crystal clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA, of course, may always tell the Guild whatever we please
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not organize stuff by ourselves!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, my feeling is, this bill has been presented to the wrong place, and I vote against it 🙂
Sudane Erato: I propose that this not be considered an event…
Talen Morgan: we cant exactly tell the guild whatever we please…they have veto right on any bill we make concerning them
Lance LeFey: Maybe we should ammend it to say that we should comission the guild for the weekly event?
Sudane Erato: That it be considered promotion..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, of course, I also strongly feel that Ulrika’s idea is EXCELLENT, and that we should seriously encourage the Guild to use Ulrika’s ideas with the amendments by Sudane
Roberta Dalek: promotional events are events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s somethin completely different!
Sudane Erato: And that the RA commision promotion
Talen Morgan: we could however as the RA make a bill allotting moneys to the guild for events
Lance LeFey: Right
Sudane Erato: Neualt must promote itself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another good idea, talen… since we do the budget and the Guild approves it.
Sudane Erato: And therefore, this is one way
Lance LeFey: I have an idea for another ammendment to the bill.
Lance LeFey: The RA should comission the guild for an advertising campaign for Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: think: Marketing
Lance LeFey: That encompasses more than events
Talen Morgan: thats not our purpose
Talen Morgan: we can allocate moneys but it is up to the guild to do as they see fit
Roberta Dalek: ok – we have 10 mins to go
Sudane Erato: I don’t understand why it is not our purpose
Lance LeFey: I thought the constitution said the RA had the power to comission the guild?
Sudane Erato: our purpose is the survival of Neualtenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes.
Lance LeFey: But they have veto power through popular vote
Talen Morgan: our purpose is law…the guilds purpose is creation and promotion
Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on the bill as currently stands – and then take any amendments if the bill fallls
Lance LeFey: Nay
Lance LeFey: Votes..?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t object to comissioning a campaign for the promotion of Neualtenburg,.
Roberta Dalek: nay
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nay on the bill #5!
Lance LeFey: We’re voting on the bill as it stands
Lance LeFey: Talen?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lance LeFey: Talen, you there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we lost Talen, hehe
Roberta Dalek: okay
Roberta Dalek: well we have 3 against and 1 in favour so bill 5 falls
Roberta Dalek: any amendents?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, at least two…
Lance LeFey: I think the general consensus, save talen, was that we comission the guild for the events
Lance LeFey: and alott funding to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Change the bill to a ‘comission’ for the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Allocate a budget
Lance LeFey: Funding which we don’t really have..
Sudane Erato: right, we do not
Sudane Erato: without a budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’ll gladly donate L$1000 which is all I have now, lol
Lance LeFey: I have 500L on me 🙂
Roberta Dalek: adhoc allocation of money is silly
Sudane Erato: I have $, too, but there must be a budget before you donate $ to it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta *blushes*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so no budget allocation without a budget.
Roberta Dalek: need a budget – bring this back to the next meeting
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: so let me understand
Sudane Erato: the Guild is commissioned to do this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can only suggest the Guild that we comission them a ‘free’ event for the promotion of Neualtenburg, using ulrika’s suggestions + sudane’s amendments.
Roberta Dalek: constutionally all events are the responibility of the guild
Sudane Erato: and we will allocate funds, if they tell us how much
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta.
Lance LeFey: Hmm, maybe it could be classified as educational?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb talen 🙂
Talen Morgan: grrr dissconnect
Lance LeFey: Because they’ll be informing people about Neualtenburg.
Roberta Dalek: the lindens won’t fund it – even if we can make a case for educational
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I doubt the Lindens would get it, but there is no harm to ask Haney…
Talen Morgan: what is the proposed event
Roberta Dalek: they have really restrcitive guidelines – as posted int eh forums
Sudane Erato: what are the costs?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Costs? Labour only, and writing a few notes about Neualtenburg
Lance LeFey: Yes, Roberta, but we can try- it could be considered educational.
Roberta Dalek: the proposed event, and detaiuls must be for the guild
Lance LeFey: We’re still on the recruitment events, Talen
Roberta Dalek: let someone put together a proposal with budget and we’ll discuss it then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But roberta… we have NO budget yet!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have a few events running regularly in Neualtenburg… Catfart should be around every minute
Roberta Dalek: okay – then we are getting way ahead of ourselves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any minute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can suggest the Guild to set up these events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And organize them
Lance LeFey: Three minutes left in the meeting.
Roberta Dalek: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #5 never mentioned L$ anyway!
Lance LeFey: Right
Sudane Erato: i didn’t see any costs
Roberta Dalek: okay – final vote of the meeting – should we suggest to the guild that they do these events?
Lance LeFey: Aye
Roberta Dalek: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I say, let’s amend bill #5 as an approved suggestion for the Guild to run weekly promotional events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sudane Erato: yes, if that is the only way
Roberta Dalek: talen?
Talen Morgan: nay,,,its the responsiblity of all citizens not just the guild
Roberta Dalek: okay – well 4 in favour, one againstr
Sudane Erato: it will not happen unless we commission it
Roberta Dalek: amendment passes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed.
Sudane Erato: but I stay with my aye
Roberta Dalek: we can’t comission it without knowing what we are commissioning
Talen Morgan: it wont happen if we commision it and our job is law not the commisioning of projects
Roberta Dalek: someone work that out and we’ll do it next meeting
Lance LeFey: Talen, yes it is
Talen Morgan: technically we have overstepped our bounds
Roberta Dalek: 1 min to go
Sudane Erato: I’ll work on something
Lance LeFey: We comission projects for the guild. It’s in the constitution
Sudane Erato: try and get Cat involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re comissioning the Guild to run weekly promotional events, engaging citizens for that purpose.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: people sort this out and bring this back
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: time is up
Roberta Dalek: we’ve had a really productive meeting today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. We did the best we could, lol
Sudane Erato: #6 next week
Roberta Dalek: passed loads of business
Lance LeFey: Good thing, because I’m getting hungry 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Lance 🙂
Roberta Dalek: someone post the chat log to the forum
Sudane Erato: I will
Roberta Dalek: ty sudane
Talen Morgan: someone show me where the casino is proposed to go so I have an idea on size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, let’s visit the casino!
Sudane Erato: Talen, I’ll go and look
Roberta Dalek: so great stuff – and more next week
Roberta Dalek: thanks everyone for attending
Sudane Erato: and Roberta, lets set a time
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for chairing it, Roberta 🙂
Lance LeFey: Right, when on what day?
Roberta Dalek: no problem
Lance LeFey: I can work around my schedule for most of this week- I just remembered I’m off this week 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say same place and same time… it was worked out quite well this day!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucky you, lance 🙂
Lance LeFey: But wednesday and tomorrow could be hard for me
Talen Morgan: whered ya get the penguin…I need one lol
Roberta Dalek: we mean for the survey
Lance LeFey: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol, sorry!
Roberta Dalek: yeah next meeting same time/place next week

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 06, 2005

Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Roberta Dalek: and doesn’t need to be in the same name
Roberta Dalek: hi gywn
Sudane Erato: hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so how are you both? :0
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Kelly Linden Post.
Sudane Erato: OK here
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Money Management.
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt New Home.
Sudane Erato: how is RL work?
Roberta Dalek: I’m fine – it’s cold and miserable here – and my heating still doesn’t work : (
Roberta Dalek: but apart from that fine : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Roberta…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw, wondeful dress : )
Sudane Erato: we should all move to Lisbon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL work is ‘under control’
Roberta Dalek: ty – not by me…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol right, here the sun shines and we have 15 degrees Celsius :0
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: woo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, let me shortly read all the notes in our friendly penguin…
Sudane Erato: They’re long : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes : )
Roberta Dalek: but ther is only 3
Sudane Erato: but the bills have been on the forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and one is not ‘a bill’ but more some ideas for the private sim…
Sudane Erato: i just got that feedback minutes ago
Sudane Erato: answer to a question I posted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, ok, sounds interesting : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any one of you has previewed 1.6 so far?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too : )
Sudane Erato: I’ve just read the release notes, and the new forum thread about reactions
Roberta Dalek: international keyboard support, unicode, streaming video
Roberta Dalek: the first two are useful for the projekt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all those work wonderfully!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND a searchable inventory, lol
Sudane Erato: and the private island business about group deeding
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. That’s useful for Neualtenburg…
Sudane Erato: ah, i think we don’t know yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew… ‘Ulrika Zugzwang be coerced’…lol
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: this baby business : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww the poor future mother…
Sudane Erato: she hasn’t been around for days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I still think we should simply copy & paste everything.
Sudane Erato: but will the new land be an EXACT copy?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the easiest way to make a swift move!
Roberta Dalek: do we want an exact copy?
Sudane Erato: if not, then adjustments will need to be made
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Perhaps not… but I still think if will help us to move quickly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can always change later…
Sudane Erato: well, I can certainly agree with that, if it works
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apparently, yes. However, I now know why I couldn’t contact Haney, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, he left LL…
Sudane Erato: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t read who’s replacing him.
Sudane Erato: bad time, with the new version coming
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm
Sudane Erato: any idea when the new version will hit?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm they’ll be very, very careful this time
Sudane Erato: 2 months?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, earlier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But at the very least, 2 weeks : )
Sudane Erato: good, in time for a move?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But people uncovered lots of bugs so far…
Sudane Erato: yes, they have
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Good point. Hmm, yes, I guess so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm, in the mean time, I’ve been reading the first bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have pending things from the last meeting…
Roberta Dalek: shall we start then? It doesn’t look like anyone else is coming
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let’s start
Roberta Dalek: was there a meeting last week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My fault, really, I didn’t manage to send an email…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It seems that the in-world IMs are never enough.
Roberta Dalek: people don’t get group IMs if they are offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I expect Talen to come over later… he never manages to be awake so early, lol
Sudane Erato: that’s odd, cause many folks are very lax with emails
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah is that so, Roberta?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes sense : (
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have a folder with the calling cards of all members…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… Hmm
Sudane Erato: : ) now called friends : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes : )
Roberta Dalek: ok – lets start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, let’s see what we have pending from the last meeting?
Sudane Erato: old business ?
Roberta Dalek: Gywn – what business do we have left over from last wek?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we have Roberta chair again? I vote on that, she’s so good at keeping order, lol
Sudane Erato: she was VERY good!
Roberta Dalek: ok – i’ll be the ordermeisterin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we have the renting business…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a report from the team who did the evaluation : (
Sudane Erato: sorry, didn’t bring it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps you could talk a bit about your conclusions… (just for the record)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh let me see…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane… you send me that as a notecard, or as an email?
Sudane Erato: ?
Roberta Dalek: its on the forums
Sudane Erato: i know I posted it
Roberta Dalek: shall I copy and paste
Sudane Erato: but it was an email, cause it had a jpg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: forum, ok
Sudane Erato: kind of needs the jpg to make sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well
Sudane Erato: altho there were a number of subsatntial conclusions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, if I recall it correctly, we need to rebuild things a lot.
Roberta Dalek gave you nberg rentals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes.
Sudane Erato: arrived at mostly by Roberta’s judgement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah ty !
Norm Drago is offline
Sudane Erato: which make very good sense to me
SL Exchange Magic Box white: SL Exchange – Delivered item Magic Ring 1.9c.
Sudane Erato: graet ! ty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, only 8 places ‘fit’ for rental – that’s too low.
Sudane Erato: now talen has volunteered to fix things
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the others only need ‘snow removal’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, excellent!
Sudane Erato: but he has relied on objects from Ulrika
Roberta Dalek: nothing seems to have happened – i had a look earlier
Sudane Erato: and she is MIA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, wait wait
Sudane Erato: yes, nothing has happened
Roberta Dalek gave you residential working.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a ‘box’ inthe Marktplatz where you can get the textures
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: did I put it there????
Roberta Dalek: well she made the prefab houses – but she has a more advanced one she wants to sell
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and talen, as officer, can remove snow, etc
Sudane Erato: don’t think so
Roberta Dalek: so he is trying to get a copy/mod version off ulrika of the primitive one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww I see
Sudane Erato: but he found he couldn’t do something or other
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Talen has Ulrika’s email
Sudane Erato: so he’s done nothing so far
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww, dang
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s really too bad!
Roberta Dalek: he can’t move them – but i think he should be able to delete them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d be happy o ‘remove snow’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *to
Sudane Erato: not so easy
Roberta Dalek: removing snow is different
Roberta Dalek: thats terraforming
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this would mean an adequate amount of places to rent… not so easy?
Sudane Erato: the land has to be pushed down
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And can’t talen do that?
Roberta Dalek: he can as an officer i presume
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: the problem is that the hosues were just plonked down – some overlap, some are not accessible, the land was not prepared…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, since the land is group owned, the officers should be able to do terraforming
Roberta Dalek: the prefab is also poor quality tbh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. So -not easy- but not really -impossible-
Roberta Dalek: and they are very small
Sudane Erato: right, it looks like the houses must be removed to smooth the land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on that, Roberta, but the point is, how much time will that take??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Weeks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even assuming we could enlisten our overeager builder Eugene to help Talen…
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: I don’t know – but we wouldn’t really get any customers as they stand
Sudane Erato: Talen had said “very quickly”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. That’s something we could all agree on : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Roberta Dalek: the houses are 9×9.5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love Talen, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you mean, they’re too small, Roberta?
Roberta Dalek: I’m not even sure they are functional
Roberta Dalek: often a bed can be 3 x 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *thinks*
Roberta Dalek: but they are what we have at the moment
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm… plan B…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they’re too small for homes, are they big enough for shops?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think?
Sudane Erato: another Roberta question
Roberta Dalek: they are small – but maybe for shops
Roberta Dalek: maybe with a 25 prim limit or something – the smallest type of shop
Sudane Erato: I will point out that Charlotte Gillespie has squatted rather happily in one
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I remember Ulrika telling that you couldn’t have more than 25 prims per building anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, true, true
Roberta Dalek: nobody would rent a house with 25 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She has moved on, Sudane, and anyway, Charlotte is a character : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Roberta… : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This still would mean getting rid at least of the snow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because just 8 shops, that’s really not enough!
Roberta Dalek: they have been designed for beauty not for function
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: I suspect that if we get into this kind of fundamental problem about house rental…
Roberta Dalek: but when we move we will have more space!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Will that mean, completely redesign everything? oh my…
Sudane Erato: that we should prepare a whole new rent concept
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no other option besides agreeing with you, Sudane : (
Sudane Erato: the old idea was based on flawed concepts perhaps
Sudane Erato: so we need a new one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unfortunately true : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think people NEVER really thought about renting stuff
Sudane Erato: oh yes?
Roberta Dalek: I’m not sure thought was given to making the city functional
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps it was
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but things were finished in a ‘quick and dirty’ way
Sudane Erato: it was meant as a tourist attraction
Sudane Erato: where looks were very important
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what do you suggest then? We should simply drop the whole renting concept?
Sudane Erato: can we suggest that shops around the main square go ahead
Sudane Erato: ?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘yes’ on dropping renting altogether, or ‘yes’ for shops only on the main square?
Roberta Dalek: yes for shops in the main square going ahead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, i agree… let me recheck your notes and the map…
Sudane Erato: that would at least get things started
Sudane Erato: primary problems there are snow
Sudane Erato: and one floor missing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 shops operationl right now
Roberta Dalek: and that talen’s priority should be fixing the shops
Sudane Erato: : ): ) and one shop with no door
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest is just a floor (easy) and snow (slightly more complicated)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: door is easy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Roberta Dalek: who is renting the shops?
Roberta Dalek: I presume no-one is actually paying…
Sudane Erato: I proposed that rent be imposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no, the shops are not being used
Sudane Erato: well, Ulrika is using one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, even Ulrika’s is mostly ‘decoration’
Sudane Erato: and a handbag dealer another
Roberta Dalek: two are – ulrika has one, and one of her friends has naother
Roberta Dalek: I have a rento cube – we need to work out how many prims we can allow and then set a market rent
Roberta Dalek: I can do that – with sudane?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 25 is a good start
Sudane Erato: good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree!
Sudane Erato: I’m game
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… two things:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Get talen and the Guild overall to fix the shops
Roberta Dalek: do we require use of the vendor – if we do then we can’t really charge rent as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: what are the issues there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean… we need to charge for taxes, lol
Roberta Dalek: the vendor takes taxes on sales
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats, we NEED to have a functional Guild!
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: These are all Guild issues.
Roberta Dalek: the vendor is something like 8 prims
Roberta Dalek: so we are looking at 3 vendors per shop
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm not much, really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… since we aren’t using the rest of the prims for renting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can raise the prim limit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the other hand
Sudane Erato: could you explain how the venders and possible rent interact?
Roberta Dalek: but it may not be possible to fit many vendors in the shops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the shops are too small to have, say 10 or 20 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: as they are prety latge
Roberta Dalek: I couldn’t find a new vendor to play with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I mean 10 to 20 VENDORS, not prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the best solution so far is the Gigas SecondServer? system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s free, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only question is how to arrange it in order to pay taxes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m really silly… uh, our vendor works
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You just need to get the scripts which interact with the web site
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no need for other vendors
Roberta Dalek: they have a script that can be added for stock purposes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, no need for other vendors SCRIPTS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you can change the scripts and make a one-prim version
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, eventually a 3 prim version
Roberta Dalek: I would really like a copy of the vendor to look at
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for back and forward buttons)
Sudane Erato: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol
Roberta Dalek: but talen or one of the scripters could modify
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could even do a one-prim version which shows a dialog box for ‘next’, ‘prev’, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or ask Lance to do one for us,.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: based on the current model
Roberta Dalek: but smaller, and less prim heavy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway, technology aside…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is not how many prims the vendor has
Sudane Erato: Can we charge rent AND sales tax?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But how we set the ‘rules’ for renting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s a good question, Sudane, and I have a suggestion to make
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think we can do both – or if we do we need to charge a very small rent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest the following…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We keep the sales tax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And rent the shops for, say, L$100 a week (we can discuss the price further)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Taxes are ‘deducted’ from rent. Meaning…
Sudane Erato: whew!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you sell L$1000 per week in items, you won’t need to pay rent! (sales tax is currently 10% I think)
Sudane Erato: will one script handle this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: HM. Good question.
Sudane Erato: there’s an interaction between rent amount and sales amount
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the best you can see is if someone has paid MORE than L$ 100 in taxes one week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, actually, in my country, there is a similar idea for our RL taxes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You pay them in advance, three times per year : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: called estimated tax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can have more deductions than the amount you have paid, the State pays you back the difference : )
Sudane Erato: ah yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really ‘estimated tax’, that’s what you ALSO have…
Sudane Erato: and the State makes money on the float!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You bet!
Sudane Erato: very sly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They pay you back after, say, 2 years or so
Roberta Dalek: ok…
Sudane Erato: 2 years!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in Neualtenburg, this would be somewhat similar…
Roberta Dalek: ordermeisterin calling to order
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you pay ‘advance tax’ every week
Sudane Erato: I have a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Roberta : )
Roberta Dalek: Sudane
Sudane Erato: that we engage in a trial period before the move
Sudane Erato: that occupancy arrangement be strictly limited until then
Sudane Erato: and that it be discovered what the actual traffic is
Sudane Erato: or, what venders can actually sell
Sudane Erato: this would be a “market” basis for charges
Roberta Dalek: ok agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: with, hopefully a bargain for the experimenters
Sudane Erato: but, clear transition to new deals after the move
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on that ‘trial’ phase, they wouldn’t pay either taxes or renting?
Sudane Erato: no, i think they should pay taxes
Roberta Dalek: I think just taxes
Sudane Erato: its the lowest risk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. And renting for free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fully agree : )
Sudane Erato: because its based on volume
Roberta Dalek: yes
Roberta Dalek: and we don’t know what the traffic will be like
Sudane Erato: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s say, 1 month free trial?
Sudane Erato: until the move
Roberta Dalek: we will also be able to see if the vendors work
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Roberta Dalek: I agree sudane – and will help implement
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that proposal!
Roberta Dalek: although I have have a conflict of interest as I wopuld like to rent one
Sudane Erato: regarding sales, I am totally ignorant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol
Sudane Erato: LOL
Sudane Erato: i think that is great
Sudane Erato: we’ll have inside info
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. restriction on sales, they can sell anything, so long as it’s PG, right?
Sudane Erato: AND traffic already
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: yes, unfortunately
Sudane Erato: i think the PG is a big burden for us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, not really ‘unfortunately’ : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah well
Sudane Erato: do we need something written?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what is the next step? Asking for a copy of the script?
Roberta Dalek: okay so the steps – 1. talen and the guild need to make the places rentable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have something written, yes…
Roberta Dalek: 2. we need as a minimum copies of the vendors
Roberta Dalek: but really the scripts as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: I volunteer to read this transcript and make a written resolution
Roberta Dalek: currently we have neither
Sudane Erato: as you can see, I spew those out rather readily
Roberta Dalek:
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: while we wait for the renovations, can these venders be ready?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, this work can be in parallel
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I presume that we will give the current vendor away…
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: I have been talking a good deal with Catfart..
Roberta Dalek: great
Sudane Erato: I’ll try to get him moving re the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a ‘special’ version with just one prim, that anyone can incorporate into a new vendor. That should be easy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sounds great, Sudane!
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what was our pending unfinished business from the last meeting…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, the Casino…
Roberta Dalek: casino looks great
Sudane Erato: Can we pass this shop thing pending an acceptable written version?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
Roberta Dalek: we need to get moving
Sudane Erato: aye
Sudane Erato: casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Casino is ok., Now we need the game machines.
Roberta Dalek: shop motion passed
Roberta Dalek: and the casino alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I talked to Eggy, he’s unwilling to ‘give’ us his machines 😛
Sudane Erato: I have proposed in the money bill mechanisms to start the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Talen has agreed to be the first casino alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: and to contribute machines
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: and we can buy more machines as needed
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No!
Roberta Dalek: and talen knows which machines are worth having
Sudane Erato: there should be enough $$ to fund the startup
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t control the treasury : (
Sudane Erato: Catfart and I have consulted closely about this money bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I want to hear that.
Sudane Erato: i think if passed it is constitutional
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol
Sudane Erato: since I don’t understand that aspect anyway
Kai Nyak is offline
Ky Callahan is online
Sudane Erato: but I do understand the bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the problem is, with ulrika ‘off’, we haven’t a working Scientific Council
Gwyneth Llewelyn: who should ratify our decisions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I have an idea, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s pretty easy….
Sudane Erato: when she returns, she can throw it out, if she wants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s pass a bill that the SC needs to disapprove (veto) in a week after the resolution has been voted upon.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: so we don’t get stagnation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: have you been able to look at the details?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, the same applies to the Guild veto as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: erm, and no, Sudane, I just remember some details from our conversations in-world 😛
Sudane Erato: well, I propose a finance committee
Sudane Erato: 3 RA members
Sudane Erato: guildmesiter
Sudane Erato: and another Guild member
Sudane Erato: 5 altogether
Sudane Erato: 3 of the members would start alts
Sudane Erato: for the three basic $$ functions I think we need to start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, all that I remember
Sudane Erato: and I proposed the names of all but the 2nd Guyild member
Sudane Erato: all have agreed to serve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: I also advised limited out and out gifts
Sudane Erato: thats the quick of it
Sudane Erato: that clear reporting is of the essence
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, certainly
Sudane Erato: I did not take into account a suggestion that Roberta just made
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one question… will all 5 members have access to any of the three alts?
Sudane Erato: which is that the CC on an alt can be changed to another RL person
Sudane Erato: yes all 5 have all PWs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s not a problem, I mean, the CC…
Sudane Erato: thats the core responsibility
Roberta Dalek: so if a person leaves we have continuity
Sudane Erato: well , i feel that all RA members should be reappointed after each election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, I usually set up lots of people with a randomly generated CC number (a service available in my country, lol) and then they can change that back to their own CC number when they want…
Sudane Erato: you’ll have to explain that to me..
Sudane Erato: never heard of that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point is, you can easily change the CC number later…
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol, well, Internet shopping never caught up in Portugal because people were too afraid of their CC numbers getting ‘caught’
Roberta Dalek: but it would get charged wouldn’t it?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they invented a system where the banking authority around here can, via a web site they own, generate random CC numbers, accepted in the whole Visa network. You set up a money limit yourself, say, just 10 US$, which is enough for starting an account
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and they have just 1 usage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way, there is no way you can do frauds with CC numbers : )
Roberta Dalek: great idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, it’s awesome, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also means that theoretically anyone could create an infinite number of alt accounts, lol
Sudane Erato: well, I suggest, based on this …
Sudane Erato: that the bill be changed slightly regarding the transfer of alts
Sudane Erato: that the transfer happen only as a CC change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We only need basic accounts, so it’s no problem for me to create three new ones…
Sudane Erato: rather than as a new alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, precisely
Sudane Erato: but, I don’t understand fully
Sudane Erato: each of those random craeted numbers has a RL person behind it, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s an ‘investment’ of just 24 Euros, I think I can afford that easily : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. Yes, for the purposes of fraud detection – if Visa wants to investigate, the banking authority will be able to tell the name of the person behind the virtual CC numbers easily.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, in terms of LL, they’re different CC numbers!
Sudane Erato: Yes, but also in terms of SL..
Sudane Erato: Someone MUST assume responsiblity for the CC alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure.
Sudane Erato: there must be a RL person taking $$ responsibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would rather prefer that the three people contributing an alt would be someone taking the responsability using their RL persona
Sudane Erato: persona is not important, just the responsibility
Sudane Erato: which is why the concern about transfer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But i just mentioned that because you can CHANGE the CC number every time the alt ‘switches hands’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem about ‘transferring’… the new RA member who ‘inherits’ the alt just goes into the backoffice at secondlife.com/accounts and changes the CC details to reflect their own
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, that’s very easily done!
Sudane Erato: yes, thats what I thought
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the card numbers there aren’t displayed fully, there is also no risk in ‘capturing’ credit card numbers : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s pretty safe, I think
Sudane Erato: any other problems with the bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not in general, Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps the issue is: how much ‘starting money’ should be in the accounts?
Sudane Erato: that we can work out.
Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the casino account has been pretty well defined by Talen
Roberta Dalek: in principal this is all fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, at the very least, L$ 20,000 plus L$ 10,000 for buying the machines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes? let’s hear talen’s proposal!
Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the general account is determined by the new sim purchase
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I thought we were just discussing the Casino!
Sudane Erato: Talen says the same, altho less for the machines
Sudane Erato: good point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok, let’s be clear on that…
Sudane Erato: are we discussing the casino…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the Casino, or also for the New Neualtenburg?
Sudane Erato: or the money bill?
Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the bill aren’t we?
Roberta Dalek: at least I thought we were
Sudane Erato: the money bill wasn’t intended to propose the amounts needed for each account
Sudane Erato: just the structure of finances
Roberta Dalek: Do we have agreement on the money bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just re-checkec the post in the forums…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I do agree
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: well, subject to change in the language of the transfer, I agree
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, subject to that slight change.
Roberta Dalek: great – passed!
Sudane Erato: I’ll get together with Cat soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, we have a Finance Committee!
Roberta Dalek: does the casino need any more from us or can it just go now?
Sudane Erato: he will have the rental account : his alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: should we transfer part of the funds from the Uma Bauhaus alt to the Casino?
Sudane Erato: no…
Roberta Dalek: do we have any funds in uma?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or start from scratch?
Sudane Erato: I think they should go to the general account…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we should have a few thousand L$….
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: for good practice
Roberta Dalek: agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So, the question remains… will the 5 Finance Committee members agree upon a figure to start the Casino? (which is the urgent discussion right now)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And discussion point #2, new sim, but let’s finish the Casino for now…
Sudane Erato: OK
Roberta Dalek: well the finance committee isn’t all here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm… brb, just 1 min
Sudane Erato: we can suggest 30K for the casino
Sudane Erato: right,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: back!
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: wb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what is your feeling on that, Sudane, will they ‘accept’ to finance the treasury in equal parts?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you expect some further contributions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA ask for those contributions?
Sudane Erato: The accounts will not be funded equally, but by need
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh.
Sudane Erato: yes, I think we should ask for contributions
Sudane Erato: because more smaller ones, rather than a few big ones
Sudane Erato: are better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, is there any expected ‘return’, you know, like when the State issues bonds or so?
Sudane Erato: but the finance committee can ultimately appeal if mor e cash is nneded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Appeal… to whom?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To the citizens?
Sudane Erato: YES, that must be discussed…
Sudane Erato: but not necessarily now
Sudane Erato: yes, to the citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… hmm… I have an idea, to be discussed with catfart, who is an awesome programmer…
Sudane Erato: we will need multiple funding sources.. but not everyone is needed, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, it’s a special vendor which issues ‘bonds’, say, for L$1000 apiece
Sudane Erato: but all the contributions must be loans
Sudane Erato: bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The money goes straight into one of the three alt accounts
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bonds are ‘unique’ objects, but you can transfer them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is rather easy to do!
Sudane Erato: is the source recorded?
Sudane Erato: the owner?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, if you wish, it could record that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty easy to do!
Sudane Erato: in this case, we must record it somehow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, Jacqueline will drool over that idea
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, you know, she loves that kind of stuff…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s always thinking of ways to replicate RL stuff inside SL.
Sudane Erato: I know little about what we can do with money accounting in SL
Sudane Erato: except that it is primitive in the extreme
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it makes some sense… because that way, people will be able to know exactly how you have participated in funding Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: so that record keeping is of the highest priority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since bonds are transferrable, they have market value
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah : )
Sudane Erato: the funds are loans, and must be repaid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that opens up very interesting ideas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the idea!
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I definitely propose that all ‘loans’ to Neualtenburg are doing by issuing bonds through a vendor. Bonds are scripted to know who are the current owners
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can set it up at the Marktplatz
Sudane Erato: how fast?
Sudane Erato: I’d like to get Talen working that casino fast
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if Catfart has some time, this won’t take longer than one hour of a very competent programmer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, again, this is basic stuff, but I also agree that the money can come in first, and we can send the bonds later…
Sudane Erato: OK great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and set up the ‘bond vendor’ just after the Casino is completed
Sudane Erato: we can assign them as bonds manually
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, at the beginning!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I imagine we’ll be paying interest on those bonds in the future, heh heh
Sudane Erato: that we must discuss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not today.
Sudane Erato: even 0 interest bonds are valid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Of course, I meant that for starters!
Sudane Erato: but, less valid
Sudane Erato: so, we are agreed
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, I agree fully, lol
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Sudane Erato: 30 minutes
Roberta Dalek: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything else pending…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we move to the new bills?
Roberta Dalek: the new home bill?
Sudane Erato: regarding the new neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: the primary issue is the ownership issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, since ‘layout’ can be defined later.
Sudane Erato: my money plan handles that
Sudane Erato: but it is aa kludge
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree.
Sudane Erato: very ackward
Roberta Dalek: well the owner is the alt
Roberta Dalek: so it shouldn’t change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.

Sudane Erato: yes, your cc proposal makes it much more feasible
Sudane Erato: so that the RL person simply rotates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, well, that’s just a slight change in the wording…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: behind the alt
Sudane Erato: We must name the ALT!
Sudane Erato: The owner!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol
Sudane Erato: God
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the surname is never fixed…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: God, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wilhelm IV
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: unto whom all things …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kaiser?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘God’ sounds a bit, uh, you know…
Roberta Dalek: yeah
Sudane Erato: remember, we may want to broaden the German theme
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Master?
Roberta Dalek: well it depends which sirnames are available
Gwyneth Llewelyn: FinanceMaster?
Sudane Erato: no, i pass on God : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Treasurer?
Roberta Dalek: is Leader still available, for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Leader is not bad…
Sudane Erato: it sounds like a cult : (
Roberta Dalek: I think we can trust whoever sets up the alts to be sensible
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: AND WE CAN ALWAYS SWITCH ALTS, if needed
Roberta Dalek: no religeous or national/monarchy refs
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I agree, Roberta…
Sudane Erato: is that bill approvable?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The leader surname is currently available
Roberta Dalek: I approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. I wonder about item #5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning, hmm, how long will it take for us to get L$ 200,000 or so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we have the ‘time limit’
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, thats the core question of Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
Sudane Erato: we will need to buy before we have the funds from revenues
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: there will need to be more bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s go on a ‘double or nothing’ risk-taking gamble… yes, I agree with the bill, just changing slightly the wording to allow for easy rotation of the alts
Sudane Erato: and therefore, some will clearly take a risk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed they will
Sudane Erato: the alt rotation is defined in the money bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I agree
Sudane Erato: there is a necessary linkage
Sudane Erato: oh, i see
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was just meant to clarify the issue in the records, lol
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it’s an aye from me as well.
Sudane Erato: aye
Roberta Dalek: aye
Roberta Dalek: passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, I disagree with the ‘coercing’ part
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s just an itty bit detail.
Sudane Erato: we can remove it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ulrika may really be unable to propose a design…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, at least replace the word with ‘kindly ask’
Sudane Erato: I would guess she would very much like to be included
Sudane Erato: which is why the forceful languauge
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and make the change to New Neualtenburg without the need of a plan, since at the very least, we can do a copy&paste of Anzere
Sudane Erato: OK, i defer on that
Sudane Erato: since I know less about how that will be done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, yes, she WANTS to be a part of it, and I really am in favour of keeping her name there… just not make it all depend on her plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: so we will revise the wording of that bill too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, perhaps just renaming that from ‘coerce’ to ‘ask’
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or ‘the RA will appoint…’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: also means if Ulrika can’t do it, she can delegate to someone else
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or if she doesnt even do that, we’ll do that instead, but ulrika will be noticed.
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning… if she really, really can’t, she’ll have a ‘last word’ on everything, if we need to give the task to somebody else.
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, wonderful!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, that WAS productive, we still have 15 minutes left
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we, for the record, gladly embrace Catfart as Acting Guildmeister, and give a loud hooray? : ) lol
Roberta Dalek: ok
Sudane Erato: Agreed!
Roberta Dalek: and then shall we finish early?
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, we need to do the same for the Scientific Council…
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, have an Acting Professor for that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Dean
Sudane Erato: who is the council now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Ulrika has that position, and we have a non-working council
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think both you and I are on the Council, Sudane…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Kathy yamamoto if I remember correctly!
Sudane Erato: I’m not aware of that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this means asking Kathy…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Didn’t you apply?
Sudane Erato: arent RA and Council membership exclusive?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well wait
Sudane Erato: I did, but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘exclusive’ as in ‘not being able to vote on both simultaneously’
Sudane Erato: things took a different course : )
Sudane Erato: no..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, same here, lol
Sudane Erato: not being members of both
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, so the SC is just Ulrika, Kathy and myself?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: so, you are the question : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh well, either I’m here in the RA, or in the SC
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: anyway, we should adjourn
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the best I can do is to do a post on the forums about the Acting Leadership of the SC, and that’s all.
Roberta Dalek: thank you all for coming
Sudane Erato: yw
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks a lot everybody

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 24, 2005

Sudane Erato: well, about land….
Sudane Erato: you got my email…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes!
Sudane Erato: we need to know which steps to take, and the implications
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It might be worthwhile to start a thread in the forums.
Sudane Erato: Eloise suggested some residents who might be able to help
Ulrika Zugzwang: Something that states what we’re trying to do and asks private sim owners for advice.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: people who own private islands who have formed groups
Sudane Erato: Faircahng?
Sudane Erato: Chang
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Sudane Erato: Blaze Spinnaker?
Sudane Erato: Even, possibly developing some intelligence on Anshe’s islands
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Blaze!
Ulrika Zugzwang: He’d be perfect.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Want me to IM him?
Sudane Erato: sure
Ulrika Zugzwang: We know each other very well from the forums.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll do that now, while we talk.
Sudane Erato: but let me know if you want him here
Sudane Erato: cause Rudeen has to let him in
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: also, Flipper ?
Sudane Erato: he bought an island and gave it to a group?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. FlipperPA Peregrine.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He owns SLBoutique.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a group discount there.
Sudane Erato: I don’t know any of these people
Ulrika Zugzwang: I get along very well with him too.
Sudane Erato: can you talk to them?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I also have exchanged emails with him so I can contact him diredctly.
Sudane Erato: we need a stated list of land goals..
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. I’ll send him an email.
Sudane Erato: exactly what we need the permissions to do
Ulrika Zugzwang: Did you want me to touch the recorder?
Sudane Erato: ah, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: I never did taht.
Ulrika Zugzwang has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: np
Ulrika Zugzwang: Got it.
Sudane Erato: only the littel sisters are not being recorded
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good then I can say anything.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Uma Bauhaus: I like turnips!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 🙂
Sudane Erato: lol
Rudeen Edo: and I… god knows
Ulrika Zugzwang: It sounds like we need to make the land similar to anzere where the group had build permissions.
Sudane Erato: yes. but…
Ulrika Zugzwang: From there we need to create subgroups(?) that allow others to have private parcels of land.
Sudane Erato: this is a PI, so even that will be different
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: that’s the biggie
Sudane Erato: private parcels
Sudane Erato: we need to find out what priviledges can be transferred to the “owners”
Sudane Erato: it’s really important to make the deal attractive
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: to establish “value” for the parcels
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: thats why this investigation is so important
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re also way over on prims for this tiny center build.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Mostly because of the church.
Sudane Erato: but… isn’t it all part of the island amount now?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But to make a good offer to the land owners, we’re going to have to make sure that they get a certain amount of prims.
Sudane Erato: ah, yes..
Ulrika Zugzwang: RIght now they’ll be under what a normal sim would give because of our center.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a small correction we’ll have to make.
Sudane Erato: so quickly we will need a system of prim administration
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Then we can implement that in the city center as well to keep people limited on the community builds too.
Sudane Erato: we should start by defining the lots, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: So, I’d like to see some sort of group permissions restored so I can get to work cleaning up the city center and putting in the new and improved fachwerks that I built.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The lots should be defined.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have a map of anzere. so next week, I’ll chop it up into a bunch of 512, 1024, 2048, … sections.
Sudane Erato: if I can define the lots…
Sudane Erato: and then set the permissions according to an agreed plan…
Sudane Erato: we should be going
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I want to make lots that are not rectangular though and have open space surrounding some of the larger ones for trees.
Sudane Erato: none of that, however, deals with the group/island issue
Sudane Erato: great!!
Sudane Erato: yes,
Sudane Erato: lets share a marked up map
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll also make roads so, if we grow we’ll already have the connecting spots defined.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: well, paths at least:)
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll make a hand map with a grid that shows 16 x 16 m^2 squares for the divisions.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I already sort of have one but I’ll beef it up.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Then we can mark on it and email it back and forth.
Sudane Erato: what tool shall we use
Ulrika Zugzwang: As investors we should have our pick of the best lots. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, any graphics editing program will work.
Sudane Erato: you have my note about the bit I marked..
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll just save it in PNG format.
Sudane Erato: what reads PNG?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Photoshop, gimp, etc.
Sudane Erato: I have Paintshop Pro, but not very good at it
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: PSP will do it too.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You’ll only need to circle things to take make notes. Maybe add text. No biggie.
Sudane Erato: then assume i will use PSP
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll take the input and clean it up.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure!
Sudane Erato: OK, good
Sudane Erato: lines for lots
Sudane Erato: and mark the bit you want me to set for you
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: here’s Gwyn!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was actually thinking of taking a chunk of land within the city walls.
Sudane Erato: ahh, good
Sudane Erato: don;t want those girls asleep
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Yes. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I thought taking a chunk in the city would open up more sellable space outside and allow me to finish some structures.
Sudane Erato: makes sense to me
Ulrika Zugzwang: If they are my home, I’d be more motivated to work on them.
Sudane Erato: i think that city RE will have more commericial value than residential value
Sudane Erato: to others
Ulrika Zugzwang: As a place to sell things?
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: so there will be space available for residential use
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. yes. I understand now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I agree with you.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So just to reiterate, I will do:
Ulrika Zugzwang: -contact blaze and flipper for inside information.
Ulrika Zugzwang: -draw up the first cut of the zoning map.
Ulrika Zugzwang: -finish up the web page.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is there anything else?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello Gwyn!
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please touch the recorder over there to assent to being recorded
Sudane Erato: its a beta chat recorder
Ulrika Zugzwang: She’s a zombie!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Cover your heads!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: oh dear
Sudane Erato: she came in twice already
Sudane Erato: ?
Sudane Erato: she’s back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, well… I’m not only late, but “unstable”. Great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi everybody 🙂
Sudane Erato: welcome to the instability club
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re having problems with sitting too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I see!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I really do apologise for being so late 🙁 🙁
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Ulrika Zugzwang: DId you see the wink animation!!?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve never seen that before. 😀
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, touch the chat recorder over there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes ….
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Priceless.
Sudane Erato: thats the beta that Eloise made
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah right… let’s hope it works 🙂
Sudane Erato: we’ll record both ways, just to be sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, have you been lucky catching the Lindens? Since they’re “on the move”, I’ve been unable to get a “knowledgeable” Linden for the past 2 or 3 days…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just get the Lindens on teleworking…
Sudane Erato: well, they’ve been moving
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they understand as much about the Estate tools as I do 🙂 … meaning, “zilch” 🙂
Sudane Erato: we talked about talking with others who have a similiar experience to ours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me get cards from your alts…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like talen morgan, for instance…?
Sudane Erato: no..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Uma lol
Sudane Erato: Eloise suggested people who have private sims but who have deeded them to groups
Ulrika Zugzwang: FlipperPA and blaze Spinnaker were mentioned.
Sudane Erato: Ulrika knows them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have Flippers email and will send him a message.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Flip is cool 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll PM blaze since we’re forum monkeys. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: He is!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point 🙂
Sudane Erato: we also discussed developing the lots…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Sudane Erato: and then setting build permissions of the lots
Sudane Erato: so that at least build work can get done by group members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a starting point, yes.
Sudane Erato: the big questions tho, are the land permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t like the “implications” that you can set things to be “irreversible”… so, any mistake, means catastrophe! That’s terrible.
Uma Bauhaus: redrum. redrum.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: well, i think you’re right that we could “sell” back to the owner, and start all over again
Ulrika Zugzwang: Want to experiment with a deeding a chunk of land to the group and seeing what happens?
Sudane Erato: so we may have to be experimental about this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Jinx.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, right…
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: but, what are we going to test?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, you can create a parcel outside the city, Sudane…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We could take an object like the fachwerk that we want to remain closed and then place it on a parcel of empty land.
Sudane Erato: thus my note regarding our specific goals
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can then deed it to group and see what happens.
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: the object, or the land
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just the land.
Ulrika Zugzwang: For starters.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (With the fachwerk above it.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… since 1.6, when you sell the land, you get the objects as well, so you do a 2-in-1 test anyway.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That sounds groovy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: Rudeen just crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yikes…
Sudane Erato: I need to check the land permissions
Sudane Erato: because I think they are on the estate menu
Ulrika Zugzwang: I hate to be a party pooper, I have to get packed up for our Muir Woods trip. We want to be on the Golden Gate bridge by 12:00 to see the Boat Parade in the Bay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Ulrika, *if* I were here on time, we’d had time for that 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have my sister in town with my niece. We’re doing the tourist thing until tomorrow. 😀
Sudane Erato: no guilt now!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I still can be used as a “tester” for Sudane, if she likes…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you’ll be a tourist guide, ulrika? 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: My family goes back tomorrow morning, so I’ll be back at it then.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. I’m having a lot of fun.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: We went whale watching yesterday.
Sudane Erato: neat!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I got so sea sick. *ugh*
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s not good..
Ulrika Zugzwang: It was OK.
Sudane Erato: did you see whales?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I mananged to keep breakfast down using my patent first-trimester vomit supression techniques. 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: *patented
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Deep breaths (in through nose out through mouth), positive thoughts, and no head turning.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: We saw 8 humpback whales.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing like an expert…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
Sudane Erato: very neat!
Ulrika Zugzwang: It was amazing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eight?!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s awesome…!
Sudane Erato: humpbacks are big, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They were popping up all around us while feeding.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We were 6 miles offshore.
Sudane Erato: the really big ones?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They’re huge.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That close to the land? I’m impressed…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We even saw several flukes (flippers)
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. They’re migrating north from Mexico right now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Up to Alaska.
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, migration season, i see…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sorry to derail the discussion.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: (Just like me in the forums.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right, right 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well I’m going to get running. I have my list of tasks:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, if Sudane has some free time, I’ll be able to help her out…
Ulrika Zugzwang: -contact the priv. sim folks,
Ulrika Zugzwang: -parcel up land
Ulrika Zugzwang: -finish website
Sudane Erato: I’m here, available
Sudane Erato: sounds great, Ulrika!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll be in contact shortly so we can have things up and running by this weekend.
Sudane Erato: great… BTW, I can’t be around next weekend
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have all new fachwerks that I want to depoy.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK Sudane.
Sudane Erato: orthodox Easter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have tomorrow free… it’s a national holiday 🙂 Although I won’t be online all the time, unfortunately I have some work to do in RL despite the holiday…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: New fachwerk? Sounds promising!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have Friday off too.
Ulrika Zugzwang: None of it lines up though. 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll be on on Friday for sure.
Sudane Erato: I’ll be around til Friday
Ulrika Zugzwang: If we can figure out how to do the land by then I’ll redo all the fachwerks.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: back on Monday
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, I best fly!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have bouncing ten year olds around me. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right… well Ulrika, don’t make your sister wait…
Sudane Erato: good travels!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Never seen a kid so excited to see big trees before. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe, “cannon fodder” for the Teen grid, I guess 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and bye bye!
Sudane Erato: bye
Uma Bauhaus: redrum.
Uma Bauhaus: Tschau. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tschuess 🙂
Sudane Erato: Rudeen computer is very slow to reboot
Sudane Erato: hold on, let me check the estate menu
Sudane Erato: no, all the land permissions are set by the lots

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 08, 2005

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But “parcels” is something available since 1.6 or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A nice side effect is that if you mark those plots for “sale”, they appear on the Find Land tab!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, people look at them “as if” they were “normal land”.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting. Like Anshe does.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is, of course, WAY COOL 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – precisely!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s HOW she does it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, of course, like we know how the community reacts…
Sudane Erato: but, we’re not selling just land, but also an idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Anshe is doing precisely the same as “net effect” with the difference that she’s the Tyrant and there is no way to “replace” her at her sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the “net effect” is, people get land at a private sim.
Sudane Erato: she had some problem with the Lindens about that, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm, the discussion has been, let’s say, a bit “flamey”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But from the “community” at large.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They discussed a very interesting point….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this is “philosophy” and politics, btw)
Sudane Erato: I thought she was not listed in a way she expected to be
Ulrika Zugzwang: By replace you mean by voting someone out via a group election?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Linden Lab sells land in the mainland, and has a ToS that entitles you to use a parcel of land, and pay for it. This is called “a land sale”.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Others (Anshe, Neualtenburg…) sell land on a private sim, have a contract with the buyer which entitles you to certain rights, and you pay for it as well. Is this a “land sale”?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. It’s a bit different than LL.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the point here is… if LL sells land under ToS, it’s a “sale”. If a group sells land under an agreement, it’s not.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We almost need people to agree to a contract before hand.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: we do, certainly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Ulrika – but when you buy land, you’re also agree to the contract in the ToS!
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s something else. A group land sale?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because LL can “take away your land” without prior notice if they wish.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. What to call it…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was the question.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Legally, it’s the SAME.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: company – agreement/contract – pay monthly fee – buyer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both models are *exactly the same*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see the problem 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: People argue “but we trust LL and not Anshe” 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well LL is still the federal authority.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Sudane, what I mean is – legally, there is NO difference.
Sudane Erato: right
Ulrika Zugzwang: So we’re injecting a layer between the palayer for the first time.
Sudane Erato: yes, that I see
Ulrika Zugzwang: *player
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, so you can’t sell anything here which violates ToS – but you can certainly add things to ToS (say, like having a saying in the democratically-elected government 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep.
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, think about a similar example…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re intermediate land contractors.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does Linden Lab “own” their infrastructure in RL?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The answer is – NO.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They colocate at Internap.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Intermediate land sellers and governors. Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: ?
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, if the grid fails, you’re not going to internap to bother the,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your agreement is with LL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not with Internap
Sudane Erato: I’m beginning to see
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But machines, infrastructure, etc. are from Internap 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: So do our citizens have no say with LL?
Sudane Erato: that’s my question, what does this mean for us?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The contract you have with LL for them to “give access to a grid” which is NOT “owned” by LL, is exactly the same people will have with Neualtenburg, although LL is the “federal authority”.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or do we treat the Lindens like a federal govt allowing people to go around if there are city problems which can’t be resolved?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ulrika, not at all – we have to abide by ToS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So residents COULD go to LL and complain
Sudane Erato: then Ulrika is right
Ulrika Zugzwang: But then we’d have to kill them.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Erm. Was that outloud?
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the contract is with the City Government, and it’s as legally binding for a “sale” in Neualtenburg, as a “sale” in the mainland sims are legally binding with LL.
Sudane Erato: frontier justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It sounds like a conversation I would like. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the ISSUE here is that Robin Linden doesn’t want people to call it a “land sale”
Ulrika Zugzwang: I missed it in the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, take a look at the forums 🙂 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s still going on.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We need a new name for it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, “covenant” or something
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve got it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to make everybody happy
Ulrika Zugzwang: I land deed with a covenant!
Ulrika Zugzwang: *A land deed …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll insist on the forums and with Robin that they should get their lawyers looking very precisely on the legal terms 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s what we’re selling. It’s not land — it’s a deed to land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm
Sudane Erato: well, I agree, its not a land sale, in the way I understand it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, being nasty – but isn’t that exactly what LL is doing? 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: in New York coops, we have whats called a proprietary lease
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Worse. They’re “deeding land” to you, on “land” which is not LL’s property, but Internap’s 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: YES!
Ulrika Zugzwang: A proprietar lease. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: *tary
Sudane Erato: that might fit
Ulrika Zugzwang: I caon’t type today.
Ulrika Zugzwang: *can’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I guess that we should be just a bit careful in “naming” stuff.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Anshe calls it “selling land” like the Lindens call it “selling land” 😉
Sudane Erato: the owners hold shares in a corp, and in exchange they get to lease a space
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see the complication. I’ll clean up the language on the webpage.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I agree with this. It’s not a problem for me.
Sudane Erato: with restrictions
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to learn more about that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (So much to learn.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ulrika, personally, I totally disagree on Robin’s evaluation on this 😉 and I’ll haunt her in the forums – VERY GENTLY, of course 😉 But I think that Neualtenburg should “stay away” and be careful.
Sudane Erato: 🙂 yes indeed
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see what you’re saying gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes, I too see
Ulrika Zugzwang: Are they afraid that Anshe is going to give “sellling land” a bad name?
Sudane Erato: but again, what does it mean for us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mm hmm
Sudane Erato: that we should definiutely not “sell land”
Ulrika Zugzwang: It seems like controll over the language to prevent damage to their own business.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds like the tactics of an oligarchy to me. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For us, it just means that, for the moment, we just need to announce something else than “land ownership” as the ToS (badly) defines it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, ulrika 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: which I think is a good thing…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Anshe wasn’t careful enough – although, again, I admit she IS right on this, and LL isn’t 😉
Sudane Erato: since many folks have associations with what sell land means
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because they don’t read the ToS carefully – and I guess even Robin didn’t, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Understood. We should threaten their model without treading on their terminology. I can live with that.
Sudane Erato: and they might not get it… our contract
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe precisely Ulrika 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we even have an advantage, we just say: “oh no no we’re NOT ‘selling land’ like Anshe, it’s a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thingy!”
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we can explain WHY it’s different 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although it isn’t, LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That’s what’s great about us three — we have power skills in the explaining department.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Phase II is certainly going to be LOADS of fun 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes! I already have our first potential customer.
Sudane Erato: so long as it gets paid for…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It will slowly but surely.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, here comes our friend Eugene…. 🙂
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Ulrika Zugzwang: Eugene?
Eugene Pomeray: hello 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he’s just outside 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Eugene!
Sudane Erato: hello!
Eugene Pomeray: hello Gwyn 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdy Eugene!
Eugene Pomeray: howdy Ulrika!11
Eugene Pomeray: whopps no 11s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene the Lightbringer…. hmmm
Eugene Pomeray: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s the ole Windlicht.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah ok 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I animated that. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I was wondering about that!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I talked to Kendra today. SHe’s going to allow us to chop up the Spital (I think) for more housing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol
Eugene Pomeray: ok
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was talking about the Kirche a bit with Sudane 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: She’s going to give me the groovy old textures and allow me to build an old section in the spital area. 🙂
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I’ll need to rally a group of church supporters saying “Don’t destroy the Kirche!” or something 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have 4 new fachwerks done too!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4??
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Tell me about the church!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I know, it has too many prims 😛
Sudane Erato: against that “church-seller” Suadne! 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to keep the church.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too! Me too!
Eugene Pomeray: same here
Ulrika Zugzwang: We need to thin out the prims tho.
Sudane Erato: me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: argh 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sheesh. It got way out of hand. You can keep most of the detail with half the prims.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Especially the towers. They have loads of prims in the them.
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, you’re making a very long list for yourself 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’ll look fine thinned out a wee bit.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, I didn’t volunteer for that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m just saying, whoever wants to do a click->delete can do so, although we should contact BladeDancer? Pendragon to see if he wants to do it.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He might be over the church by now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me thinks of doing an historic speech on one of the oldest and loveliest monuments in the city, being “defaced” by capitalistic greed et al
Ulrika Zugzwang: Poor guy has been at it for 8 months.
Sudane Erato: yes, haven’t seen him for a long time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, I haven’t seen him around…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should be careful with what we privatize.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’ll be cutting up the spital so we’ll have tons more land shortly.
Sudane Erato: ahh, capitalist greed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I have an idea…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll contribute my plot’s prims for the Church!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also Kendra is building Altenburg still on her own land. 🙂
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, we’ll have a serious problem partitioning the city
Eugene Pomeray: Altenburg?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh I can do that. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The castle.
Eugene Pomeray: ah
Sudane Erato: thats great!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hang on about the castle …
Sudane Erato: I’ve been very worried
Ulrika Zugzwang: Today I’m going to nuke the fachwerks,
Ulrika Zugzwang: partition the land,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm, because some houses don’t fall neatly into boundaries…
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: ahh, i see
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ouch, you’re getting dangerous, Ulrika!!
Ulrika Zugzwang: and then put down all the new homes within the zoned areas. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, they’re just my cookie cutter fachwerks.
Sudane Erato: yes, of course..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bulldozer Ulrika 😉
Sudane Erato: perfect
Ulrika Zugzwang: The new ones are much much nicer.
Eugene Pomeray: how will the new fachwerks look?
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: The look almost identical with higher quality textures and in different colors and styles.
Eugene Pomeray: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have the textures doen, I just need to upload them and then add them to the existing structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Won’t that take ages? I can help a bit if you like, depending on *when* you’re doing that. I think I can still manage to move prims around…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have negotiated the entire day to work on SL. 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah lovely!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh no. It’ll be easy.
Sudane Erato: thats really great
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m well practiced at it.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: My goal is to have the majority of the inside rebuilt and zoned today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so that point is solved… Sudane said she was really worried about the in-city parcelling.
Sudane Erato: great!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: yes, I was..
Sudane Erato: but it sounds like we’ve got it
Ulrika Zugzwang: After that I’m going to pin Eugene down and tickle him until he passes out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: lol
Sudane Erato: and Ulrika, the new thread on the covenent is major
Sudane Erato: I’ll email you a description of a coop agreement…
Sudane Erato: see if it helps the definitions
Eugene Pomeray: oh yes, i have an idea for more market space
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. I’ve seen a few. It’s legalese over 5 pages. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent, Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, lol
Sudane Erato: well, I’ll just describe it
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’ll have to make an SL version for those with short attention spans like me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That sounds excellent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: don’t make me laugh, ulrika 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Go ahead Eugene.
Sudane Erato: of course we need to do our version
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “short attention spans” indeed…
Eugene Pomeray: OK, well behind the fachwerks we can put vendor stalls
Eugene Pomeray: for holovenders
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: whats a holovendor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, the thingy in the Marktplatz, Sudane.
Eugene Pomeray: or a regular vendor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one that rezzes in a “floating image” of the item to sell.
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: now I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods*
Eugene Pomeray: it gives extra space for people to sell, and more money to us 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: am i making much sense 😛
Sudane Erato: Yes, i thought that the houses should all be possible shops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, originally, Eugene, the idea would be to have holovendors as the only “official” vendor in the shops…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the sales tax.
Sudane Erato: all the vendors must be “official”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to dedicate a whole row of buildings right on the platz for selling.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That might take care of things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Ulrika! 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now they are all those lego-style stacked structures.
Eugene Pomeray: yes, but behind the buildings, there can be mini stalls
Sudane Erato: yes, but any building could be for selling…
Sudane Erato: and living too
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK Eugene. To maximize land usage!
Sudane Erato: true, good idea
Ulrika Zugzwang: I won’t say no to that. 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: exactly 🙂
Sudane Erato: you have to be able to find them
Sudane Erato: if they’re not on the streets
Sudane Erato: thats why i like the medieval idea of shop below, housing above
Ulrika Zugzwang: The only problem with putting shops under houses, it that it will cut into the prims of those who own the shops above.
Sudane Erato: but, they should be the same person
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They should, yes….
Ulrika Zugzwang: As is, prims will be low low low in the city with tiny little 144 m2 lots.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I understand.
Sudane Erato: yes, true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: will there be places for RENTING or have we abandoned that idea completely?
Eugene Pomeray: Sorry, but I have to go! 🙁
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, did you all see my proposed inner-wall city pricing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, see you Eugene!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll get to that in one sec Gwyn. 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: bye!
Sudane Erato: bye, Eugene
Ulrika Zugzwang: Bye!
Ulrika Zugzwang: He’s a great guy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm, no I didn’t…. is it on the official site? I’m briwsing through it right now…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re luck to have him in the group. 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: *lucky
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm true 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s in the Join section.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. I have it open…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was thinking of charging more for land inside the walls (monthly only).
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now I set it at 2x but it go lower to 1.5x if you’d like.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Sudane Erato: that would make sense if the plots were commercial/residential
Sudane Erato: inside plots
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They’re com/res in the walls.
Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is 2x too high?
Sudane Erato: whatever the monthly starts off…
Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices are so low.
Sudane Erato: it can be changed
Sudane Erato: the prices should be low to start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: then, as the market environment changes
Sudane Erato: you can change the rates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see there is still the possibility of paying in L$ instead of US$
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should discuss that.
Sudane Erato: also, as the degree of Neualt success changes
Sudane Erato: the rates might change.
Sudane Erato: since we are non-profit
Ulrika Zugzwang: I say yes but we need to have an overhead to cover conversion costs and rate changes.
Sudane Erato: yes, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as to changing rates – that is something we can deal with later, and have just the “starting prices” announced for now.
Sudane Erato: yes..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to paying with L$, well, i have my doubts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because of one thing…
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: and I think its reasonable for the starting prices to be low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOM being unable to provide all the necessary US$ we need
Sudane Erato: what about IGE
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or… failing that… we could destroy the market, buying well below the trend
Sudane Erato: I use them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s an option, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even Anshe 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: *shiver*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Sudane Erato: ahh, interesting
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, hank then 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ramos?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeop
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. 😀
Sudane Erato: what does it matter who?
Sudane Erato: its the rate!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as the agreement to pay in L$ is very clear about the rates…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I only do business with ethical retailers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Sudane, there is the “personal” thing behind that 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Anshe is not an option for me. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right 😉
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is pretty neutral on this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Plus, if Anshe and I ever touched we’d vanish in a flash of photons.
Sudane Erato: in a true capitalist society, values have no place 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s the problem with capitalism.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I’m the only person in SL that can keep a conversation with Ulrika, Prokofy and Anshe at the same time 😉
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It eats people.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Sudane Erato: I can do with all except Prokofy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s not bring the personal issues in here…
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: True Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point of view is simple…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If people are expecting to pay in L$…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’ll have to understand that we aren’t going to guarantee a fixed rate or something
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we may have to use GOM, IGE, Hank Ramos, etc…
Sudane Erato: we need never guarantee a fixed fee
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was thinking of even creating an official middle person.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: According to availability and not necessarily “best rate”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Explain that to us…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Such as myself who would take their $L and pay their US$ for them via pay pal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, i see!
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You = more likely Uma Bauhaus 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the “official treasurer” or something.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It could be a private service ontop of the nonprofit work.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Uma.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Sudane Erato: but, I see no need for the middle person!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, Rudeen will pay LL…
Sudane Erato: the city can do that, in the person of it avatars
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I only say middle person because it will be hard work. One could offer incentives to take that responsibility.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that you mention it, it MAY make sense.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the following…
Sudane Erato: well, it would be hard work to keep the rates low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that people in neualtenburg are “worried” because Rudeen is “doing everything”
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: then it would be normal work for so so rates
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right.
Sudane Erato: and its the issue of the spread
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the treasury would be more “spread” – Rudeen gets payed in US$, Uma in L$, and there is an alt for the Casino as well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Too much overhead could sour the deal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like it!
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well we can discuss it in the forums too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is Guild business, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: It might be a way to pull in more folks if the US$ aren’t attracting the crowds.
Sudane Erato: its rather involved for chat
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes it is!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good call Gwyn.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: also, remember the problems paying with Paypal
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have 2 more topics for the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes Sudane. That too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, go ahead, Ulrika…
Ulrika Zugzwang: First, would you two be interested in a reduction in monthly rates for those who are serving in the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah no way, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: (Or the other branches possibly).
Sudane Erato: no, i think not… not now
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public service is public service – no “special allowances”
Sudane Erato: maybe later
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I’d thorw it out there. 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Next on the list …
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: ah the temtress!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’m glad you did – since we can officially put that up as a RA decision 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ulrika is evil (it says so on her profile 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Put up and struck down. Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I haven’t changed that profile since I was a cynical newbie.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least until the next elections, due on the 22nd or so 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I should redo hat.
Ulrika Zugzwang: *that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “I’m Not So Evil Anymore” 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or … now I”m crafty about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Sudane Erato: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Final thing.
Sudane Erato: ROFL
Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to do something that’s quite unusual with my tract of land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It combines privatized public space, rental spaces, and my home.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So it’s kind of like Sudane’s idea for the church.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so far, so good…
Sudane Erato: “privatized public”?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hang on. You can help me with the terminology after I ‘splain it. 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I propose to purchase the castle land on the East of the city in the walls.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d make a structure for me, build a new senate, build a castle.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The castle would contain a few rental units while the bottom half would be for all citizens.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If it is a success and we find ourselves flush with money someday, I’ll transfer ownership of the castle and senate to the city.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If you’d like the senate just flat out public form the start, we can do that too.
Ulrika Zugzwang: *from the start
Ulrika Zugzwang: What do you think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah I think I understand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the idea would be to keep the senate, but keep it out from “public commons” so that you don’t count it towards available land for sale.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I’d like to do the same with the Church 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, certainly, I agree with that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But I’d only want to do this if people can “own” the build.
Sudane Erato: ?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Like, I don’t want you to be burdened with the church if you’d prefer a home.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the city would have a special agreement towards the usage of the Senate.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no, lol, Ulrika, I’ll be more than glad to “use” my land for the Church, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: I want to feel like I “own” the build, like the way BladeDance? “owned” the church.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have too many “homes” already 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: let me say my thoughts
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK>
Sudane Erato: you make things far too complex
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Sudane Erato: I have no problem with you buying the castle land
Sudane Erato: and doing what ever you wish… renting whatever
Sudane Erato: but I think that the senate and the church should either be public land or private land
Sudane Erato: we can designate you as the new exclusive architect..
Sudane Erato: that makes a lot of sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: but there must be clairty
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. The senate is public. That’s easy.
Sudane Erato: the land for the senate must be public in the sense it is not on the tax roles
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll rebuild it as a guild member. 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The same for the church?
Sudane Erato: yes, and you can be the exclusive architect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: if the guiold or the RA decides
Sudane Erato: whoever
Sudane Erato: I just need clarity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA can comission the Guild to rebuild the castle, and designate Ulrika. No problem on that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The senate is public for sure.
Sudane Erato: well, the castle can be private, for all I care
Ulrika Zugzwang: You don’t have a problem with the castle though Sudane?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither do I.
Sudane Erato: you deserve it
Sudane Erato: although..
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let’s start it out private with the goal of it becoming public after completion.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I give to the city. 🙂
Sudane Erato: you’re well on your way to becoming Queen Ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, to be honest, I don’t have a problem with the Senate building being “private” and the City can use any other structure for meetings, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: (I know you dislike gifts.) 😉
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: well, Gwyn;, eys
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re even supposed to have a Rathaus down there…
Sudane Erato: but why is it the senate, then?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Wuld you like to combine the rathaus with the senate. Skip the dome and go with a Bavarian building?
Sudane Erato: what is a Rathaus?
Ulrika Zugzwang: That might make sense.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Rathaus is a government house (Rat = Govt).
Sudane Erato: more private tax role properties!
Sudane Erato: ahh
Sudane Erato: smaller government!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just move the meeting onto the town square.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t know. What do you all think.
Sudane Erato: I think we should move it behind locked doors
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Sudane Erato: only partly kidding
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let’s think about this. These are definitely tough subjects.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, *I* think that Neualtenburg’s government is really so small, that we don’t need two separate structures for “meetings”.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: true
Ulrika Zugzwang: So you’re saying scrap the dome?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, from my point of view, I’d drop the dome, yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Done.
Sudane Erato: is this the dome? what we’re in?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll see if I can throw up a rathaus today too. It’ll be simple.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yup. We’re in the dome.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it wasn’t ever completed… although I liked the idea of being a “work in progress”; like the Government itself 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: you’re right.. we can be in a simple room
Sudane Erato: should be fairly big, tho
Ulrika Zugzwang: With nice furniture and chairs.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree on this? No more “dome” and all this land is for Ulrika to build the castle?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Could be nice.
Sudane Erato: much easier to see everyone
Sudane Erato: yes, I agreee enthusiastically
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s agreeable to you as well, ulrika?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that your “ok” has answered it 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: As long as we’re on a roll, what about the church.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, how big is the Church’s plot anyway?
Sudane Erato: I agree to go along with a consensus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and how many prims does it take…
Sudane Erato: its more practical than what I have suggested
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More than 1872 prims?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on a 8192 plot?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Give me 1 sec and I’ll let you know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve never checked, to be honest…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t get the whole listing on the “Land” tab in the group information box 🙁
Sudane Erato: oh well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Eugene!
Sudane Erato: what is the issue to decide?
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s about 3000 m2.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sorry I was gone so long.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only that? Hmm. and how many prims?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try to explain…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m willing to do a similar thing as with the castle here
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m not sure. Let me go check.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, get a 4096 plot or the equivalent needed for the church’s prims
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe bon voyage, Ulrika
Sudane Erato: well, question.
Sudane Erato: could we donate prims…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Sudane Erato: like…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just suggesting this, if the Church is above the threshold for 3000 m2
Sudane Erato: have our land in a group which shares the church?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely my idea, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: then its not an either/or situation
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s 2128 m^2. It supports 487 prims. It’s using 990 prims.
Sudane Erato: whew
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, what Sudane was saying is a way to get out of this issue…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m willing to set up a group with the required amount of prims for the Church
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 5000 or so m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which will have a plot somewhere in the sim, empty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is always great, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND hold the Church 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: welll… or
Sudane Erato: add our own land to the group..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 4500 or so.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Another way to do that is to connect all the space under the roads and bridge to the church.
Sudane Erato: and simply not use all our prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but they’ll have prims on it as well…
Sudane Erato: well, yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: To be honest though, the church could use 450 prims and still be amazing.
Sudane Erato: but that is the same as city ownership!
Ulrika Zugzwang: BladeDancer? just wan’t that prim efficient.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, pfft, old monuments were never efficient, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this can wait 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I trimmed my fachwerk from 150 prims down to 25.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I just want you to get a good deal gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, at the beginning of Phase II, I’ll have to pay a lot for space 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I know, Ulrika!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t want you taking on the church as a burden to solve a structural problem for us.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Sudane won’t like us “giving things” to Neualtenburg as well.
Sudane Erato: right
Ulrika Zugzwang: I want it to be yours if you’re going to take it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, i don’t want it to go away!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Not yours but the hybrid public-yours we’ve been discussing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Privately owned for public use 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn can be the city designated care-=taker
Gwyneth Llewelyn: who me? lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA, as a whole, is the caretaker.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You shouldn’t be forced into a position of charity just to solve the problems of the build. That’s all.
Sudane Erato: yes, thats right…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes, Ulrika, I hear you 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: at least not all by yourself
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m just looking out for you. 😉
Sudane Erato: since some of us might share the same feelings
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. you. 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, I really appreciate it, and probably comission you to trim some prims, under my strict supervision 😉
Sudane Erato: good, Ulrika would be good at that!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can cut a few more prims off, I’ll add extra features, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Snip snip.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Perhaps there’s a way we can transfer the whole structure to you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: We could sell the parcel to BladeDancer?, then have you buy it for $o.
Ulrika Zugzwang: $0.
Sudane Erato: reminder: Simple Simple
Ulrika Zugzwang: Would that give you ownership?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to set up a group.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Rudeen has to deed it to that group.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With the structure.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: and then you have to be responsible for the tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Sudane Erato: and then you have my proposal!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your proposal being…?
Ulrika Zugzwang: ?
Sudane Erato: that a group “own” the church, not the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Sudane Erato: and that it be an interest group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the idea.
Eugene Pomeray: i have to go again :p my mother is here for mother’s day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok Eugene!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao EUgene!
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: bye!
Eugene Pomeray: bye everyone
Ulrika Zugzwang: BYe.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane, that was my idea…
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having a group, owning the church – but this very same group will also be “used” for other things, like group announcements for the church, tec.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *etc
Sudane Erato: well, I think that’s a good idea, if the group can be mustered
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah it can be a one-person group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, three-person group 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll join.
Sudane Erato: yes, and the group probably should agree with the city to keep the church and maintain its programs under certain standards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if by some insane reason I get “voted out”… Rudeen can still claim the land, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah certainly, Suande
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thanks Ulrika 🙂
Sudane Erato: I will join too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll have to fix my groups, hmm
Sudane Erato: but, better a group…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I need another 50 or so 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I know!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Group limits are a hassle.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they are 😛
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, I should get going. I need to eat, convert my textures to TGA, and then start uploading. 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops. Sudane is gone. 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Sudane crashed, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: She’s gonna be mad!
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought she was writing something…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Me too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was waiting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so was I lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there she is again…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t see her yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me offer her a tp…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: sorry.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no problem 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was telling gwyn that I better run.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one issue for the RA to discuss in the next meeting or so…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I need to eat and get some textures done.
Sudane Erato: OK,
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time for discussing the next elections.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ok, ulrika….
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t need to discuss them until May, 22nd
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is that when elections are due?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oficially, we told in public that we would do elections near the “day of move”
Ulrika Zugzwang: We could always extend them until we have a populace.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: I suggest now that we postpone them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now it would be a boring election.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain 😉
Sudane Erato: exactly
Sudane Erato: theres no one to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m willing to explain that publicly….
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That sounds good to me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can hold elections as soon as we’re at a certain percent of occupancy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like, hmm, Phase II will attract new citizens, and we would like them to vote as well, so we’re giving everybody a break.
Ulrika Zugzwang: TBD.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sounds a good compromise.
Sudane Erato: thats a great idea!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Works for me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I’m going to eat. I’m starvin’!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane, is Neualtenburg “visible” at the moment from the mainland?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Next time youlog in, check out the new buildings Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: no food in SL! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and don’t die from hunger in SL, lol
Sudane Erato: Neault is visible to all
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I certainly will!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be around here for a while… church meeting at 4 PM hehe
Sudane Erato: I left it open after the thinkers mtg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Although I wasn’t able to hold it here!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I will next Tuesday.
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It seems that to have everything configured properly, you need to set up “landing points” first.
Sudane Erato: sorry I can’t be here tonight
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve done that for some parcels…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And don’t worry, Sudane 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK! I’ll be here too. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: NP Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do some more.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. for the meeting. Nevermind.
Sudane Erato: we need to contact the LL on another issue.. the telehub is still marked below
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I have an idea to use Neualtenburg as a “battle field” for the guys doing the Portal Wars game… 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. RIght.
Sudane Erato: but… we’re pacifists!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ooh. That would be fun.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m a leftist. I was born with a gun in my hand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, hmm, when you CRASH in Neualtenburg, you appear at the OLD telehub spot, right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. That’s a pain.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but when you teleport in, you go to the new destination instead. Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I’m about to pass out. I have to go eat!
Sudane Erato: and it might end up being in someone’s house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: go away, Ulrika!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll see you all soon.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Bye!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye
Ulrika Zugzwang: *ooh* woozy.
Sudane Erato: bye!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Tschau!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww poor Ulrika.
Sudane Erato: good meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, did you manage to capture it all?
Sudane Erato: yes, in about 2 dozen emails!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah wow
Sudane Erato: Eloise’s machine is really good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m glad it works 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, we’ve all got work!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right 🙂

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 27, 2005

Ryker Tonic: we might need more seats
Dianne Mechanique: oh
Dianne Mechanique: :)hi sudane
Sudane Erato: there she is!
Eugene Pomeray: hi gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: ok
Eugene Pomeray: start
Neualtenburg Balloon whispers: Balloon is released.
Sudane Erato: but wait…
Sudane Erato: what if other people come?
Garnet Psaltery: well you told us to look for the crowd
Garnet Psaltery: so that’s what they’ll do
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: when Gwyn gets in we can fly somewhere beyond th efog
Dianne Mechanique: hi gwyneth
Ryker Tonic: lets hover close by
Dianne Mechanique: how far up to get out of the fog?
Ryker Tonic: just in case
Dianne Mechanique: they will still see us no?
Garnet Psaltery: we could go down into the valley
Dianne Mechanique: nice and clear here
Eugene Pomeray: stop
Neualtenburg Balloon whispers: Balloon is stopped.
Eugene Pomeray: is this good?
Garnet Psaltery: good for me
Sudane Erato: can you fly up to 227 ?
Eugene Pomeray: we are at 229
Ryker Tonic: Every time I see Eugene…there’s a strong chance of getting airsick.
Garnet Psaltery: what’s at 227?
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: this is my absolute first ride in a balloon
Sudane Erato: our height
Dianne Mechanique: so i am okay with it
Sudane Erato: mine too!
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: oh I shoudl have goven you a ride in mine
Dianne Mechanique: yes i hoped yo would but no
Dianne Mechanique: 🙁
Garnet Psaltery: too busy sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder what will happen if we getmore than two extra people on this ride 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’ll have to grab the rails…
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: please excus eme a moment I need to go upstairs ..
Dianne Mechanique: could be fun
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ryker Tonic: bleck
Ryker Tonic: bad salad dressing
Enjah Mysterio is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, shall we start?
Sudane Erato: sure..
Sudane Erato: should we record?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, let’s hope it works 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: caht log?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: back again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have an amazing device that sends you automatic emails with the logs, Dianne…
Dianne Mechanique: cool
Dianne Mechanique: wonders never cease 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *when* it works, it’s amazing 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: nope
Sudane Erato: won’t stay up here 🙁
Sudane Erato: oh well…
Garnet Psaltery: we could down to the valley
Sudane Erato: we’ll just cip logs, I guess
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Garnet Psaltery: or I coudlk tell you how to cut fog
Sudane Erato: yes, killing the fog is easy
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ctrl-Shift-Alt-Minus
Ryker Tonic: nice sunset
Sudane Erato: if the Debug is on
Dianne Mechanique: it’s very pretty up here
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Have we started yet?
Dianne Mechanique: does it snow in this sim?
Eugene Pomeray: no
Eugene Pomeray: we are in our “fall” season
Sudane Erato: complex question 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL, I think we need more tyrannical means to conduct the meeting 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: order!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, you’re the MC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hehe. Just for the sake of argument, yes, we’re planning to change the textures on the sim to reflect the seasons 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the trees as well.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right 🙂 So we have two things to discuss today…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is the upcoming elections.
Sudane Erato: yes
Eugene Pomeray: the expo and elctions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we start with that one?
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Ryker Tonic: May I ask a question?
Eugene Pomeray: sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead, Ryker 🙂
Ryker Tonic: How many residents are there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good point – that’s one for Sudane.
Sudane Erato: right now there are 13
Ryker Tonic: kk
Eugene Pomeray: 14
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13, all right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 14?
Dianne Mechanique: how lucky
Eugene Pomeray: oh, whoops
Sudane Erato: and several more, like Dianne, are immeninent
Sudane Erato: SP
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Ryker Tonic: i am trying to recruit
Sudane Erato: great!
Sudane Erato: we’d like maybe 30
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s great 🙂 Yes, 30-40 is our target….
Ryker Tonic: I’ve had several freinds visit over the past few days
Eugene Pomeray: so when do you think is a good time for elections
Dianne Mechanique: may i ask a question?
Eugene Pomeray: sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, currently, our “psychological problem” is that the currently elected body does not really reflect the current resident population 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: how so?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – well, they have been elected during Phase I.
Sudane Erato: and there are only 2 left active
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which had more people – hmm, around 60 or so – but they didn’t own the land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, 4, actually, Sudane – I’m counting with Ulrika and Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or do you mean at the Government?
Sudane Erato: ahhh, yes, but they are not RA members, subject to election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s correct.
Dianne Mechanique: we are moving up?
Eugene Pomeray is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, if you have bothered to read it, the Constitution does not define how often the Representative Assembly should be re-elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither the number of elected members 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was deliberate, as the number of people in Neualtenburg change over time…
Sudane Erato: yes
Garnet Psaltery: I can’t see any typing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the representative Assembly has to do is to set up a date for the elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, garnet? Hmm
Sudane Erato: we lost Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, this is not going well, lol
Dianne Mechanique: she is still online
Sudane Erato: there is someone down there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t see Eugene online…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, how does this baloon go downwards without a pilot?
Dianne Mechanique: only he can control the boat?
Ryker Tonic: rofl
Sudane Erato: hehe
Dianne Mechanique: w are too high to fly witthout aid
Sudane Erato: lost in space!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this was definitely an evil plot to get rid of us 🙂
Sudane Erato: lol
Ryker Tonic: i have jetpacks
Dianne Mechanique: probly a single bomb under one of the seats
Ryker Tonic: if we need to bail
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if Eugene logs in again…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can tp him back…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope 🙁
Ryker Tonic: i worry who’s on the grouns
Ryker Tonic: ground
Dianne Mechanique: should i go and check?
Dianne Mechanique: i wont be able to come back though
Ryker Tonic: one of us should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can tp you back in, Dianne…
Dianne Mechanique: someone with a carbon rod or somethign
Garnet Psaltery: Sorry I still can’t see anything I’l have to relog
Sudane Erato: maybe we all should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol, I think it’s best 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: somethign happened to my view when eugene logged
Dianne Mechanique: hard to adjsut
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right.
Garnet Psaltery: Oh .. I just set myself not busy and everything cam eup
Dianne Mechanique: sorry
Dianne Mechanique: fell out the moment i stood up
Sudane Erato: hey 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, here we are again 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Garnet Psaltery: just missign eugene
Dianne Mechanique: there are others around also
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if we’re able to recover the balloon, though…
Dianne Mechanique: druid something
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Sudane Erato: is that kind OK?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s wait for Garnet…
Garnet Psaltery: I’m here
Sudane Erato: shes here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww that’s a nice chair
Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, lol – sorry 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: gwyneth is still on busy mode
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m constantly being interrupted 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: being on busy mode makes people disappear and typing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no – I have the History open
Dianne Mechanique: sorry wer you moving this one?
Dianne Mechanique: hello bond
Garnet Psaltery: hello
Bond Harrington: hello, what’s going on?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Bond 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: meeting
Garnet Psaltery: just starting th emeeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, this is an open meeting of the Neualtenburger Representative Assembly.
Bond Harrington: oh. Who do I need to talk to in order to get a plot here?
Dianne Mechanique: all we need is cappucino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane is the right person for that, Bond 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: and a round table
Sudane Erato: yes, I’m available after the meeting 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although may I suggest afterwards…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Bond Harrington: oh ok
Garnet Psaltery: so .. elections
Sudane Erato: I’ve only got a rectange table
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the easy part – setting a date 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The complex part – the proceedings.
Dianne Mechanique: sokay sudane 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: joke
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Has any of you bothered to read the Constitution? 😉
Garnet Psaltery: I did but I’ve forgotten it
Dianne Mechanique: i have but it dont stick so good 🙂
Ryker Tonic shifts uncomfortably in his seat
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I’m going to quote parts of it by heart, my computer is too slow right now to launch it….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to launch a browser, I mean
Dianne Mechanique: paraphrase it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, basically, you vote for “factions”, not for people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Factions” are just groups of people that represent a common idea.
Sudane Erato: like parties
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a limitation, that the faction number had to be as big as the whole Representative Assembly
Bond Harrington: So, it’s a little like the Westminster parlimament?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just like parties.
Garnet Psaltery: so what factions are there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, or like most of the European parliaments….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we had just 2 registered parties last time….
Sudane Erato: but there are no members of the second one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And one which *almost* did make it (missed one member, if I remember correctly, to be able to apply)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane.
Garnet Psaltery: what are they called?
Dianne Mechanique: how can it be aparty without members?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we *lost* the members, lol
Dianne Mechanique: after the fact
Sudane Erato: well, the original one started by Ulrika is the SDF
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: Social Democratic Faction
Garnet Psaltery: ok
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Sudane Erato: its got a statement of purpose somewhere
Dianne Mechanique: on her site
Sudane Erato: on the old site
Garnet Psaltery: I know what it is roughly
Dianne Mechanique: i think
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you can look it up somewhere from Ulrika’s site.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or from the Neualtenburg forums.
Dianne Mechanique: what is the second one
Dianne Mechanique: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it must be deeply hidden….
Sudane Erato: what was it called?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the second one, the MPP, right?
Sudane Erato: ah, yes
Dianne Mechanique: silly party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Headed by Pendari Lorenz, she had a more moderate view.
Dianne Mechanique: i have talked with her a bit
Dianne Mechanique: i konw her
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: wish we could get her back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The third one was the Costume Party – lol. As said, they barely got admission to the system.
Dianne Mechanique: she left?
Ryker Tonic: i like the name
Sudane Erato: thats right!
Dianne Mechanique: 🙁
Garnet Psaltery: is a tradition in UK to have a silly party
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, pendari has been active, but just not in Neualtenburg
Dianne Mechanique: canada to
Dianne Mechanique: *too
Sudane Erato: a silly tradition 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Dianne Mechanique: i hardly knwo her
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There wasn’t anything to stop people for doing *any* kind of party.
Eugene Pomeray is online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, if you had enough members, and a group set up for the elections, that was all that was needed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Eugene is back, yes!
Garnet Psaltery: and can thi schange now or not?
Sudane Erato: great!
Sudane Erato: yes, sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, it *has* to change, since either the MPP or the Costume Party don’t have any members right now 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: costume party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we *should* have people form new parties.
Eugene Pomeray: hello
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes
Garnet Psaltery: Right so befor elections you need at least one new party?
Sudane Erato: yes, absolutely
Eugene Pomeray: sorry i was having some technicalissue 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, you should – it would be better if we had another one, yes.
Sudane Erato: Eugene, come and sit down
Dianne Mechanique: do the parties declare platforms ahead of their being created?
Dianne Mechanique: wht was the platform or reason d’etre of the german party for instance?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Usually, yes, Dianne – so that they can recruit new members, and be eligible.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There wasn’t a “german party”, if I remember correctly 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: ohmisnomer
Sudane Erato: I don’t remember one
Dianne Mechanique: i thought yo uwere talking about german party sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: sunded scary a bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Dianne Mechanique: lederhosen fo rall
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooo lol
Sudane Erato: oh no! 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: well it wouldn’t be a good idea to have elections too soon
Garnet Psaltery: if we have to set up parties
Sudane Erato: perhaps 2 weeks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I was checking if I had a notecard with the manifest of the SDF…. but I think not….
Garnet Psaltery: 4 weeks would eb better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I think we need to do this in two steps, as we did last time….
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 weeks for parties to form, 2 weeks for campaining.
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Dianne Mechanique: so there is still a chance to start a party?
Sudane Erato: I just feel that no one is represented now…
Dianne Mechanique: for pendari?
Sudane Erato: so there is some urgency to it
Garnet Psaltery: is there anyoen here about to start a party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Sudane – but I also think that people should have a bit of time to organize again.
Dianne Mechanique: not I
Eugene Pomeray: i am now on a dialup connection, and sl is very slow,my broadband connection died on me
Eugene Pomeray: 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: i just hought we were talking about the party forming stage as bieing over
Ryker Tonic: wow
Eugene Pomeray: so, i cannot see anything 😛
Sudane Erato: well, perhaps we could do these first elections with one party?
Garnet Psaltery: can you see typing eugne?
Garnet Psaltery: no I think that’s a bad idea
Dianne Mechanique: does not *look* good
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Dianne Mechanique: woud be great to get a second
Garnet Psaltery: I woudl leike to see another choice of party
Sudane Erato: OK
Dianne Mechanique: makes us look like Iran or somethign
Garnet Psaltery: if no-one else dies I’ll do it but nt all that keen
Sudane Erato: lol
Dianne Mechanique: but nothign anit-democratica aobut it
Dianne Mechanique: if other parties do not happen to form
Sudane Erato: well, doesn’t there need to be a real difference of opinion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, last time we had a few radical groups 🙂 Nothing wrong with that, if they comply with the rules….
Dianne Mechanique: would be nice
Sudane Erato: for there to be another party
Garnet Psaltery: yes and new poeple now who didn’t have a chance before
Sudane Erato: thats true
Eugene Pomeray: i am thinking of creating a poarty
Ryker Tonic: with only one party, is there a need for elections…if we can only vote for factions?
Dianne Mechanique: perhaps garnet and I could start the hankerchief on the head party or somethign
Dianne Mechanique: just for show
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ryker, there was a slight twist…
Garnet Psaltery: please don’t mwntion the hanky
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to clarify this briefly….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The elections were a double-vote thingy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All citizens voted for a faction.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But all “party members” also voted on the party leader
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, they had to select the order they preferred for their own party….
Sudane Erato: thats right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, like the Australian system, if I remember correctly?
Sudane Erato: I’m beginning to remember 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: can thi sbe doen in 2 weeks?
Ryker Tonic: seems like overkill for 13 people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH yes – the election proper was done on a weekend, we have all the software thingies that do that.
Sudane Erato: well, it will be a bit overkill
Eugene Pomeray: i must go, the lag is killing me 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, poor Eugene.
Sudane Erato: but, its the structure for the future
Garnet Psaltery: sorry aboutt hat eugene
Dianne Mechanique: eugene is running is he not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll get you a transcript, Eugene….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And he said so, Dianne, so I expect he will 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, I’m sure…
Dianne Mechanique: saw a poster
Garnet Psaltery: well as I said I’llset one up ifn o-one else does
Eugene Pomeray: can some one “represent me”? i will right via email
Eugene Pomeray: *write
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Eugene
Garnet Psaltery: Bon dis neutral at th emoment
Garnet Psaltery: not having bough tin yet
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point 🙂
Bond Harrington: Yeah, I’m just fascinated by all this, and a bit overwhelmed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes
Ryker Tonic: lol
Eugene Pomeray: before i go, i have a marketstall for the expo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes? Great, Eugene 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, great!
Ryker Tonic: when is the expo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s the second point to discuss, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should finish the “elections” item first.
Ryker Tonic: sorry
Garnet Psaltery: I propose we set a date 4 weeks from now for elections
Ryker Tonic: to get ahead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I would agree with that, Garnet.
Dianne Mechanique: second
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And let people start to post on the forums
Ryker Tonic has a short attnetion span.
Sudane Erato: Sunday July 26
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ideas and suggestions for parties, etc.
Dianne Mechanique: what about party forming period?
Dianne Mechanique: is extended?
Dianne Mechanique: or over?
Eugene Pomeray: i’m a way that day 🙁
Garnet Psaltery: 2 weeks to form and 2 to campaign
Dianne Mechanique: right
Garnet Psaltery: when are you here?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something like that, Garnet
Sudane Erato: Eugene, you can do a write-in ballet
Dianne Mechanique: i would like to see this “write-in ballet”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Eugene, will you be here on the 25th? We’ll definitely will have an extended period for the elections….
Dianne Mechanique: 😉
Eugene Pomeray: behind me is the market stall
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it looks good, Eugene 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: excellent
Dianne Mechanique: wht is the expo?
Garnet Psaltery: I have to go in 10minutes
Eugene Pomeray: 29th
Ryker Tonic: of June?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right – ok, we could do the voting period from the 25th to the 29th….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: July.
Ryker Tonic: kk
Garnet Psaltery: agreed
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: thanks 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, another thing we should discuss a bit….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How many members on the Rep. Assembly?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time we had 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s way too many for the current population.
Eugene Pomeray: 5
Garnet Psaltery: 3 is a good number
Dianne Mechanique: is it not in the constitution or somethign?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Our idea was, having around 10% of the people in office…. we had 60 members, so….
Dianne Mechanique: defined number or ratio?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dianne. It’s deliberately not fixed….
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless there was a change and I missed it, lol
Sudane Erato: no 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I don’t think so 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 5 is good
Eugene Pomeray: ulrika sugested that
Garnet Psaltery: we are only likely to hit up to 30 in next few weeks so 3 woudl eb good
Ryker Tonic: 10 percent of 13 would be 1.3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, 5 also means that each party will *need* 5 members.
Dianne Mechanique: unevennumbe obviously
Eugene Pomeray: i am representing ulrika and aliasi for the meeting today hehe
Dianne Mechanique: and three smells like a troika or somethign
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Ryker, 1.3 members will simply not work 🙂 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ryker Tonic: would simplify meetings though
Dianne Mechanique: i would say three or five
Dianne Mechanique: but leaning to fiv
Dianne Mechanique: e
Sudane Erato: getting the .3 wouldn’t
Ryker Tonic: one memebr, plus one whos only paying attnetion a third of the time
Eugene Pomeray: how about 4
Sudane Erato: yes, 5 would be good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, should we settle at 5? I *know* that most meetings will only have 2-3 people around anyway 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: what about ties?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 is an even number 🙂
Ryker Tonic: need an odd number
Sudane Erato: the biggest problem we have found is attrition
Garnet Psaltery: ok I vot for 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane.
Dianne Mechanique: four and a random number generator
Ryker Tonic: 5 is good
Eugene Pomeray: sure 5 sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so 5 it is 🙂
Sudane Erato: our first decision!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Garnet Psaltery: yay!
Dianne Mechanique: yay!
Dianne Mechanique: we decided!
Eugene Pomeray: yay
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Bond Harrington: 5 could work. It would allow for a majority-minority split in the faction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that would be the idea, Bond.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time we had 4 members for the SDF, and 3 for the MPP…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was a close vote 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ryker Tonic: I think we should have a MOFO party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, do we need to discuss this further?
Garnet Psaltery: only one question
Dianne Mechanique: MOFO?
Ryker Tonic: in honor of the TX governor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can offer to set up a few informal meetings, announced on Events, to explain a bit about the proceedings…
Ryker Tonic: who said to a reporter this week
Ryker Tonic: adios mofo
Garnet Psaltery: who needs to be notified of a new party?
Dianne Mechanique: hmmm
Dianne Mechanique: short for somethign dirty i guess?
Ryker Tonic: yes
Bond Harrington: Captain Goodhair said that?
Sudane Erato: well, best to start a thread on the forum
Ryker Tonic: yes
Dianne Mechanique: i shall no say it
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: serious question here
Ryker Tonic: he thought the camera was off
Dianne Mechanique: camera?
Sudane Erato: a thread on the forum…
Ryker Tonic: tv camera
Dianne Mechanique: i am not weraing makeup
Garnet Psaltery: ogh good
Sudane Erato: announcing the new party
Ryker Tonic: sorry to digress
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s go back to the meeting, please 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Garnet Psaltery: sorry it’s just that I haven’t go tmuch time
Sudane Erato: and inviting discussion of the issues
Eugene Pomeray: i am thinking of starting a party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, we’ll have some threads on the forums for specific announcements for new parties….
Sudane Erato: then, at election time..
Dianne Mechanique: great
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene, you should start yours 🙂 hehe
Dianne Mechanique: process for application is written down somewher?
Eugene Pomeray: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Dianne – it was a bit more informal, I think.
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You just need to create a group…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the groups that had the necessary amount of people were considered eligible.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, we had announcements for 5 or 6 parties….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even more, I don’t rememeber.
Dianne Mechanique: what is necessary amount?
Dianne Mechanique: five?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But only two were eligible – ie. more than 7 members at that time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because you could win the elections with all the votes, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and make sure you have enough members for that 🙂
Sudane Erato: we’ll have to be in more than one party for that to work
Garnet Psaltery: I’m sorry Ihave to go. May I have transcript of rest of metting please?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, sure.
Dianne Mechanique: aww!
Garnet Psaltery: Thank you.
Dianne Mechanique: bye garnet 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Bye
bye Garnet: (via Eugene Pomeray))
Ryker Tonic: nice meeting you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I’m thinking, Sudane…. if we have 14 members, we’ll be able to have enough for 2 parties at least.
Sudane Erato: by Garnet.. tahnks for coming!
Bond Harrington: bye
Eugene Pomeray: yes!
Sudane Erato: yes, 2 parties
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SDF still has 4 members 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: only four?
Sudane Erato: but, I’m hearing more
Dianne Mechanique: surprised
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well, theoretically, yes, only 4.
Sudane Erato: only 4 still active
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the members haven’t said if they would be owning shares in Neualtenburg on this Phase II
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, they do not count.
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: thats the new membership criteria
Eugene Pomeray: should we go on to our next subject?
Dianne Mechanique: are here any demographics on the residents such as they currently are?
Eugene Pomeray: (yay lag died down)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think so, Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah I’m glad to hear it!
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: I’ll share with you what I have Dianne
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dianne, the site www.neualtenburg.org has a partial listing of all plots sold.
Sudane Erato: right
Dianne Mechanique: i am just cruious as to how german the residents are
Dianne Mechanique: or not
Dianne Mechanique: or whatever
Sudane Erato: actually, its getting to be a good listing
Dianne Mechanique: i have no concept of the populace here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think I’m actually the only half-German around, lol
Ryker Tonic: i am
Ryker Tonic: half
Ryker Tonic: half French
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes – so 1 and 1/2 🙂
Sudane Erato: if I am, I deny it 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: i have german ancestry
Ryker Tonic: its why I am co conflicted
Dianne Mechanique: but english citizen
Sudane Erato: lol
Dianne Mechanique: lviing in canada
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Dianne 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, we *could* do a poll on the forums, if you’re interested, Dianne…
Dianne Mechanique: not *that* interested
Ryker Tonic: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok
Dianne Mechanique: i just think the bavarian them
Dianne Mechanique: lends a certain somthig
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Dianne Mechanique: and wanted to know if the residents really reflected it i gues
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Ryker Tonic: I drink beer
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Ryker Tonic: does that qualify?
Dianne Mechanique: i am drunk now
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think it had two reasons – one was Ulrika and Kendra having been in Rothenburg, and wanting to recreate the environment….
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And secondly, there was no other Bavarian-themed sim at that time…
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: a great lack to be sure
Eugene Pomeray: there still isn’t
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, well, there are a few buildings which are “inspired”, but yes, you’re right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
Eugene Pomeray: well if this is succesfull we may have another sim 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we move to the Expo?
Dianne Mechanique: it is a good job to my mind
Dianne Mechanique: on recreating the feeling of the place
Dianne Mechanique: not htat i have been thre
Eugene Pomeray: in a different thme
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Bond Harrington: Well, I’m not sure what Ulrika had in mind, but it sure does give off that atmosphere of 1600s-1700s Bavaria, which spawned freethinking and republicianism, and the Illuminati, et al
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: yes the details of the recreation do not ocunt really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes, well, Bond 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… the Expo….
Eugene Pomeray: yay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we should let Eugene talk a bit first, since he has proposed it…
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only major event we did once was the “Oktoberfest” last year.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: i was thinking of a neualtenburg expo, i was thinking art to help the MoMA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: now to become a MoCA 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes to help the MoCA 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Ryker Tonic: I like MoCA java
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also to attract new people to visit, and eventually to invite them to own a share as well…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: so each artist gets a booth (or share a fachwerk)?
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, what will really excite people?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it will be an Art Expo, right, Eugene? That’s your idea?
Dianne Mechanique: art show?
Eugene Pomeray: it can be any kind..
Ryker Tonic: real art?
Eugene Pomeray: but i think art will be the best for now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl art?
Ryker Tonic: original?
Dianne Mechanique: i do life drawings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we could start with the Art idea.
Eugene Pomeray: sl art
Dianne Mechanique: pendari was going to put some in her gallery
Dianne Mechanique: but we need more thatn an art dhow i tink
Gwyneth Llewelyn: original makes sense. Or else, we’ll have copyright issues 🙁
Sudane Erato: neat Dianne
Dianne Mechanique: for good expo
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Bond Harrington: ooh, yeah, original art
Sudane Erato: yes, perhaps
Eugene Pomeray: kendra is offering a rennaisnce fair 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
Eugene Pomeray: *rennaisance
Dianne Mechanique: who is kendra?
Eugene Pomeray: yes in altenburg 🙂
Ryker Tonic: where is altenberg?
Eugene Pomeray: kendra is one of the architects of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra is currently the leader of the Guild 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Eugene Pomeray: right next to your house, ryker
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Altenberg is … yes, lol, right
Ryker Tonic: ??
Sudane Erato: the other town square
Ryker Tonic: ah
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the “Old town” square 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Near the gates.
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ryker Tonic: kk
Bond Harrington: BTW, has anyone heard when the HTML-on-prim stuff is going to be added? It could help the MoCA if paintings were hosted off site and presented in the musemum and on a website at the same time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only on 1.7, Bond.
Eugene Pomeray: yes hehe
Sudane Erato: later in July?
Dianne Mechanique: 1.7 but static only
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, end of July.
Dianne Mechanique: no active web pages
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps on our *next* Expo 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes!
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But first we have to put this one up and running 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: so where will it be?
Dianne Mechanique: i thik that if people came here for party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Place.
Dianne Mechanique: they would expect beer
Sudane Erato: right here!
Dianne Mechanique: because of the bavarian thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beer, we have 😀
Dianne Mechanique: so any expo
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: has to be partialy octoberfest
Ryker Tonic: music?
Dianne Mechanique: perhaps
Dianne Mechanique: or look like it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Music, I can get a DJ, but he’ll do mostly German Hard Rock 🙂
Ryker Tonic: lol
Dianne Mechanique: lots of peole are older
Eugene Pomeray: locations: marktplatz, empty fachwerks, MoCA, altenburg?
Dianne Mechanique: you could do kraftwerk or somethign
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, location first ….
Ryker Tonic: who can have a booth?
Sudane Erato: location should be here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The *only* problem with the Marktplatz is really “lag”
Sudane Erato: even tho it is said to be laggy
Eugene Pomeray: would that be enough space?
Dianne Mechanique: these are locations in neualtenberg?
Ryker Tonic: how bout the valley?
Eugene Pomeray: neualtenburg should have it’s own “booth”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, i don’t think we’ll have *tons* of people exhibiting art – from what the Montmartre group is doing, they get perhaps 10-12 people.
Eugene Pomeray: that could work
Sudane Erato: well, we could do in the valley
Dianne Mechanique: how about other booths
Dianne Mechanique: like a country fair
Dianne Mechanique: kissing booth etc.
Sudane Erato: but here is more a promotion of our group
Dianne Mechanique: dunking booth
Sudane Erato: hehe, a dunking booth
Ryker Tonic: if its close
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well – if we’re able to script those, yes, they would be cool, Dianne 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: dunk Ulrika
Dianne Mechanique: very popular
Dianne Mechanique: 😉
Ryker Tonic: we could invite people to the expo and then direct them to tour the city
Sudane Erato: lol
Eugene Pomeray: they had that at the touchstone fair 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ryker: we can always set up a in-sim teleporter.
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Ryker Tonic: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they’ll always see the Marktplatz first.
Eugene Pomeray: so how about this…
Ryker Tonic: yes
Ryker Tonic: and less lag
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer an “open air” fair…. for several reasons….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lag, yes, that’s the major one-.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s also easier to navigate around the booths….
Eugene Pomeray: altenburg – rennaisance fair, marktplatz – art show, rathaus – neualtenburg “museum” and info
Ryker Tonic: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah hmm
Sudane Erato: that sounds good
Dianne Mechanique: where is the museum going?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, an Expo all around the sim, hmm.
Dianne Mechanique: thats good
Bond Harrington: yeah, that works
Dianne Mechanique: makes peple walk around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The museum is on a hill near the Marktplatz
Dianne Mechanique: mybe it could be no fly for the day
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, we could do that, Dianne 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Sudane Erato: can we make it no fly? I’m not sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although there should be teleporters for people to navigate across the exhibits….
Dianne Mechanique: just a thought
Dianne Mechanique: it has its own problem
Eugene Pomeray: the roads can be no fly
Dianne Mechanique: s
Ryker Tonic: whats the advantage of no fly?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane, we can – just check the Church, it’s no fly already 🙂
Bond Harrington: no, I agree, we want people to take in the expo
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Advantage? People need to take more time to see stuff, hehe
Dianne Mechanique: the elves do no fly a lot
Eugene Pomeray: yes true
Bond Harrington: if they fly, then they miss out on lots of stuff
Ryker Tonic: but will it frustrate them>
Dianne Mechanique: and it is frustrating at first
Dianne Mechanique: but yo get used to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Disadvantage, of course, is that everything takes longer to visit….
Ryker Tonic: yes
Ryker Tonic: if it were me
Ryker Tonic: i might visit, not be able to fly and tp out
Eugene Pomeray: we would have tps though
Bond Harrington: I agree we probably need in-sim tps
Dianne Mechanique: yes we would lkely lose some
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d say, we have a compromise, just the parts which have something to show could be no-fly, and you would be able to teleport or fly from place to place.
Dianne Mechanique: depends apon their demeanor and ow hey are feelgn that day likely
Ryker Tonic: and people might think this is no fly sim all the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: teleports are ok, lol
Eugene Pomeray: true
Ryker Tonic: people would have to read the signs
Bond Harrington: let them know when thy come in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the signs can be used as teleporters 🙂
Ryker Tonic: the people i have brought here to visit are often not sophisicated sl users
Eugene Pomeray: hm, how about this …
Bond Harrington: Yeah, nobody reads the signs at the public sandboxes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good point, Bond. Yes.
Dianne Mechanique: if we could make people do it
Eugene Pomeray: at the end of the show, we have an art auction! :
Eugene Pomeray: )
Dianne Mechanique: it would be to their adantage
Dianne Mechanique: i have been here afew times
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah I like that, Eugene!
Sudane Erato: yes, me too!
Dianne Mechanique: but did not “see” it until i walked the streets
Dianne Mechanique: on foot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Dianne.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, this would be something to discuss at the Rep.Assembly, if we should do the “inner city” all no-fly.
Dianne Mechanique: hello markie
Sudane Erato: yes, its been mentioned
Markie Macdonald: hi
Ryker Tonic: does that mean no baloons?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there Markie 🙂
Markie Macdonald: sorry, just being nosey… u mind?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no, Ryker the baloons work independently.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, no, this is an open meeting, Markie 🙂
Ryker Tonic: good
Dianne Mechanique: I am ignorant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, you can fly over no-fly zones 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: can you get around a no fly with an attachment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s only when you land on them, you can’t fly again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Dianne, you should be able to do that.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to do some testing, but I think it’s possible.
Eugene Pomeray: we could have taeke off locations
Eugene Pomeray: *take off
Dianne Mechanique: so the clever amoungst us wont suffer
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Dianne Mechanique: to walk imean
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Dianne, hehe
Eugene Pomeray: some lots that are dedicated to “take off”
Ryker Tonic: not to be contrary but there is a visitor…and they immediately are flying
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, that’s correct Ryker….
Ryker Tonic: i am open
Ryker Tonic: to whatever
Ryker Tonic: though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as said – this will be only a “temporary measure” during the Expo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And probably just for the places where there is something happening.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the rest will be “fly” as usual.
Ryker Tonic: sometimes though i have the feeling that this community is not open as it could be to real noobies
Dianne Mechanique: you could have atour
Dianne Mechanique: with a sign
Dianne Mechanique: “walk the old city”
Dianne Mechanique: or somethign
Dianne Mechanique: taek peole by the hand sorta
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Dianne Mechanique: there wuold have to be somethign worthwhile to discover though
Dianne Mechanique: on the tour
Eugene Pomeray: with notecards on the way
Eugene Pomeray: explaining the important builds
Sudane Erato: 🙂 our whole city is worthwhile 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes the church etc.
Dianne Mechanique: pints of interest
Dianne Mechanique: *points
Eugene Pomeray: yes hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, the old plan of the Tourist Office…. a group of people willing to prepare some information 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I admit I volunteered for that last year, when I had some free time – lol
Eugene Pomeray: i will help 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I can’t do that right now 🙁
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no help from me for that, Eugene 🙁
Sudane Erato: Eugene is a great tour guide!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true!
Sudane Erato: so, do we have the info we need for the expo?
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think we should nominate Eugene as the Master of the Tourism Office 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yay!
Sudane Erato: definitely!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have to pick a spot in the valley for the booths….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for Altenburg, Kendra will deal with it by herself, I imagine…
Sudane Erato: OK
Eugene Pomeray: hehe aww 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eugene already has some booths, lol, so that’s also settled 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, a date!
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I can help out with the in-sim teleporters)
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: how about hte modern ara
Sudane Erato: should the date be the same as the elections?
Eugene Pomeray: *area
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, hmm, yes, I can get one of the best DJs around, for some German Hard Rock, at least for a few hours 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh that would be clever, Sudane!!
Sudane Erato: be quite dramatic
Eugene Pomeray: yes hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And campaigning on the streets while people are running around with beer steins and the chicken hat – heheheh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Devious 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: well, we’d be voting
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it certainly would bring everybody here for the voting booth. That’s true…
Eugene Pomeray: we could have the boths in the mediveval sction or the modern section
Sudane Erato: is campaigning allowed during voting?
Eugene Pomeray: both are flat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I don’t remember, Sudane.
Eugene Pomeray: how about right across the bridge
Ryker Tonic: drinking and voting go well together
Dianne Mechanique: it might be difficult to restrict it
Sudane Erato: lol, yes Ryker
Dianne Mechanique: nt the sam as RL
Dianne Mechanique: that way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, so you would be able to see the city from there – that would be an idea, Eugene
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Sudane Erato: you’d want to watch to put booths and such on city land
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: or else there might be some prim overload…
Sudane Erato: with embarassing results 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Sudane Erato: any unsold land will do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Dianne Mechanique: will there be dancing?
Dianne Mechanique: ro club type environs??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we become suddenly very successfull in selling all the remaining land, I think we’ll have enough to spare for 1-12 booths…
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: but it is hilly, so woul dwe have platforms?
Dianne Mechanique: nice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dianne : yes, that was also my suggestion, I was not joking about the DJ 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Dianne Mechanique: i made that big glas ball in the pride celebration
Dianne Mechanique: that the dance floor was int
Dianne Mechanique: i could make ssomethign similar
Sudane Erato: neat!
Eugene Pomeray: we could have a live “band” plaing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I missed that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Eugene – what do you mean? Avatars animated, or a band using a streaming server?
Eugene Pomeray: avatars animated
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, Dyonius Blanc (I think that’s his name) has some wonderful stuff that way…
Bond Harrington: playing a polka?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Dyo’s animations are more appropriate for a jazz or rock band, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless Ulrika had some time for doing more animations….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But she’s having her baby 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, that will be just about the time
Dianne Mechanique: ulrika has a baby?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
Eugene Pomeray: should we charge artisans to put their art in the booths or make it free?
Sudane Erato: early August
Sudane Erato: make it free
Sudane Erato: we want as many people as possible for this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. make it free, Eugene. But we could split the amount of the auctioned items 🙂
Sudane Erato: wide open celebration!
Eugene Pomeray: yes, that’s what i wasthinkingas well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Makes more sense to me.
Ryker Tonic: is an auction the best bet?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I like the idea, Ryker, although I wouldn’t just rely on the auction
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eventually, allow the artists to sell their stuff….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we could apply our sales tax 😉
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I imagine we would scare many off….
Sudane Erato: we could, but the sales tax issue we need to discuss in RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Hmm. Ok, so, it’ll be tax free 🙂
Sudane Erato: I think better for now
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree.
Eugene Pomeray: well neualtenburg items will sell well that day 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I suppose so, Eugene. You’re right.
Dianne Mechanique: image is everything
Dianne Mechanique: when yo uare starting out
Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
Dianne Mechanique: this will be many peoples first look at the place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
Dianne Mechanique: so no tax
Eugene Pomeray: we could sell “rennains costume s in altenbrug :”)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s an agreement, then 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: can you purchase bavarian costumes here
Dianne Mechanique: like “tracht” or whatever?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, that’s a good question, Dianne 🙂
Sudane Erato: Eugene has many!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And dirndls 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Eugene Pomeray: no, but we can make that possible
Dianne Mechanique: people like to dress up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari has done some lederhosen….
Dianne Mechanique: i cheap german costumery availablecould be fun
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: and extra income 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have to see who has those available…
Dianne Mechanique: i am just throeing out ideas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can ask Pendari about hers…
Dianne Mechanique: i have n time to make them myself
Bond Harrington: Does anyone sell woven pigtails or hair knots?
Eugene Pomeray: vindi vindaloo

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s the biggest problem 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: i am new too
Dianne Mechanique: i have yet to make much of anything
Dianne Mechanique: but my house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Eugene, do you know Vindi?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you think she would be willing to do some dresses for us?
Eugene Pomeray: we could split the price?
Eugene Pomeray: that may work 🙂
Ryker Tonic: she does good stuff
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could, yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And she certainly does, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *could* set up a competition for German-style clothing 😉
Eugene Pomeray: we could have Darkdharma help us as well
Dianne Mechanique: when is expo again>?
Dianne Mechanique: how long from now?
Sudane Erato: 4 weeks
Eugene Pomeray: iyes that is a good idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, sadly, the only clothes designers I know, wouldn’t be very willing to “split costs”…. 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: fairly short time faem
Dianne Mechanique: *frame
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think it’s enough…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, we expect hundreds of new items and dresses etc.
Eugene Pomeray: when is that?
Sudane Erato: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Eugene, Sudane suggested doing the Expo during the election days 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: i will be away 🙁
Eugene Pomeray: i think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah right…. 🙁 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, should we postpone that on the following weekend, then?
Eugene Pomeray: a week after the elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm right. I’d say, postpone both…
Eugene Pomeray: ah the weekedn after elections
Eugene Pomeray: 30 and 31
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about having both on 30 and 31?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elections + Expo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Eugene will be around….
Sudane Erato: back… needed coffee
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Sudane
Eugene Pomeray: that shounds good
Dianne Mechanique: is there anythign left on the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, because Eugene is away, we’re thinking of postponing both the Expo and the Elections on the next weekend….
Ryker Tonic: i have one trivial matter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, Ryker…
Sudane Erato: OK great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I also think we should have a “comittee” for organizing the Expo.
Eugene Pomeray:
Ryker Tonic: there is smoke shooting through my house from a device next door
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
Ryker Tonic: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s perhaps one of the chimneys?
Eugene Pomeray: sorry to be away during a crucial time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or something left by someone…
Ryker Tonic: ill have to go look
Sudane Erato: yes, lets examine it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I’ll come with you…
Bond Harrington: fireplace?
Sudane Erato: if its garbage, we can delete it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Sudane Erato: if its a chimney…
Sudane Erato: well,, maybe we can tweak the particle gen
Ryker Tonic: its lower than a chimney
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have to take a look
Dianne Mechanique: i think i have to go
Ryker Tonic: ty
Dianne Mechanique: RL calling…
Bond Harrington: Hmm, yeah it could be a improperly scripted fireplace.
Sudane Erato: Dianne, I’ll see you later
Eugene Pomeray: ok, dianne thanks for coming
Bond Harrington: bye Dianne
Dianne Mechanique: is it okay if i leve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nice to have met you, Dianne
Ryker Tonic: Noce meeting you Dianne
Dianne Mechanique: i think we have discussed most of it
Ryker Tonic: *nice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I think we can safely adjourn the meeting for today.
Eugene Pomeray: bye Dianne
Ryker Tonic: Eugene…did you recover your balloon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And post it on the forums….
Dianne Mechanique: nice to meet all of you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhhh right, the ballooon!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me get a copy of the transcript…
Eugene Pomeray: not yethehe

Permalink.

3rd Representative Assembly (6)

RA Meeting: August 02, 2005

Pendari: before the meeting begins.. if Sudane accepts.. I would like to make a motion that Sudane act as LRA for this first meeting. All RA say yay or nay. =)
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Satchmo Prototype: popcorn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on that, Pen 🙂
Sudane Erato: ooooo k
Sudane Erato: does everyone have the Agenda?
Pendari: err, yes.. aye or nay.. haha
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Sudane Erato: In addition to the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol – I meant actually that I vote for that proposal 🙂
Pendari: Eugene, Satch ?
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Eugene Pomeray: yay
Kendra Bancroft: everyone looks so lovely in Modehaus designs –I’m all choked up!
Sudane Erato: the other card in the penguin is the proposed procedures for this august body
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Kendra Bancroft: I need to make more men’s wear
Gwyneth Llewelyn had no time to change 😛
Pendari: ok. motion passed. Sudane will be acting LRA for this meeting =) floor is yours Sudane
Sudane Erato: thx 🙂
Sudane Erato: please note the proceedings proposal…
Sudane Erato: we can vote on that during the week…
Sudane Erato: and if passed by the members…
Sudane Erato: will be effect next meeting
Sudane Erato: until then.. we’ll be informal
Sudane Erato: it had been my suggestion to not take any votes today…
Sudane Erato: but there are some urgent matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The notecard is basically a copy of the email you sent earlier, right?
Sudane Erato: so… on the matter of the budget… and the expo
Satchmo Prototype: with a modificaiton on the proportions that make up a committe Gwyn
Sudane Erato: yes, Gwyn… revised by Pen and Satch and me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A yes. Ok.
Sudane Erato: a significant element is that discussions happen here…
Sudane Erato: but votes are taken in between meetings
Sudane Erato: and then published… with who voted for what
Sudane Erato: hopefully that will make for more deliberation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow yes, that’s a big change.
Sudane Erato: while keeping events entirely transparent
Sudane Erato: but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Kendra Bancroft: and we likes activity
Sudane Erato: that would be for next week….
Pendari: I’m assuming the idea behind that proposal is to give RA members a bit more time to actually “think” about a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ty for the pic, Garnet 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: unless anyone would like to discuss those now?
Satchmo Prototype: yea and to solicity public opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: exactly
Garnet Psaltery gave you Rathaus 21st August 2005.
Pendari: hehe.. thank you Garnet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I certainly need a week to think it over 🙂 My problem is – how will the votes be cast?
Kendra Bancroft: I’d appreciate the matter of the Expo being handled with some speed — Labor Day weekend would be a great time to have the event
Sudane Erato: well… I have re-constituted the RA Group
Sudane Erato: maybe that will help polling
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right, Sudane – so, this means I have to leave yet another group 🙁
Sudane Erato: yes, kendra
Pendari: I think that if we want to adopt those proposals for next meeting, then we have no choice but to discuss them today.. however, I think they could fall under Category 4 in the agenda “Other RA proposals”
Sudane Erato: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: ok
Satchmo Prototype: yea lets kick off the agenda 🙂
Sudane Erato: so… the Budget/the expo
Sudane Erato: I think everyone whos interested has read my monthly budget reports?
Sudane Erato: so there is a sense of where were at?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Eugene Pomeray: well we should create an expo commitee…
Satchmo Prototype nods
Pendari: somewhat.. yes.. I think I understand it enough =)
Sudane Erato: is there a proposal for the Expo?
Kendra Bancroft: am I crashed again?
Sudane Erato: hehe.. no
Pendari: no Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see you, Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane: not a “proposal” per se, more like some forum discussions, and some in-world discussions as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning, we have a place…
Sudane Erato: ok… but I mean a proposal for action
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A rough idea 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No bodget 😉
Sudane Erato: like… to spend how much money?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even budget … 😉
Pendari: as I understand, the RA would be responsible for advertising about the EXPO, but the guild would be in charge of creating it.. So if we had an EXPO committee, it would be strictly for advertising, but would need to work with the Guild to know *what* to
Pendari: advertise
Sudane Erato: sure
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Satchmo Prototype: and determine the budget
Pendari: is that correct?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Pen 🙂
Pendari: right
Pendari: Does the guild have an idea on what costs would be involved with the EXPO?
Eugene Pomeray: so, kendra as the guildmeister, what are your plans for the expo?
Kendra Bancroft: I see it as a more or less a street faire
Eugene Pomeray: hello 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: hello Yogeswari
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Yoge 🙂
Yogeswari Padar: hi, sorry i’m late 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi Yogeswari 🙂
Pendari: hi Yogeswari =)
Yogeswari Padar: hi all!
Pendari: a street faire.. will guildmembers / citizens be selling items?
Satchmo Prototype: so it’s gonna be a street fair for Neualt vendors?
Sudane Erato: what action should the RA take regarding it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (with live music, hehe – I got the DJ for that 😉 )
Satchmo Prototype: I think we should make a committe of people really interested in making this happen
Satchmo Prototype: and who can fast track it
Satchmo Prototype: and put together an organized proposal
Sudane Erato: great…. who will work with the Guild?
Eugene Pomeray: yes, i would be interested 🙂
Pendari: I would propse that the RA set up a budget for advertising, and allow citizens/guild members to sell their items but not be taxed on them by the city.. to recieve full profit so as to encourage the guild to *want* to create as much as they can
Satchmo Prototype: the commitee would work with the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll certainly help with promotion & event handling, although, as you all know, I can’t stick 2 prims together
Sudane Erato: poi… we are not taxing now
Pendari: hehe.. shh!
Pendari: lol
Satchmo Prototype: the committee should propose the budget, rules, date, place etc to the RA at our next meeting
notetaker beta 2: Script run-time error
notetaker beta 2: Stack-Heap? Collision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, as a guideline, only citizens will allow to set up their stalls/booths/vendors, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh oh – there goes our note taker!
Eugene Pomeray: well i think for the expo we can tranform a building, into the Neualtenburg Information center for the expo and beyond
Pendari: ok.. When is the EXPO scheduled to happen?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *and* Kendra. Whew.
Pendari: I’m actually working on my building for that now Eugene =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene: it was supposed to be held in Altenburg, so, there are some buildings there…
Pendari: that I will leave as a permanent Info/welcome center
Eugene Pomeray: great pendari 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s another topic – the info centre.
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the proposal should include….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – when?
Pendari: It was something I wanted to do ages ago, but then had my break from SL.. as a guild memeber and ra member and citizen, I really want to make it a great neautral welcome and info area
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – where? (Altenburg?)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – who is allowed to participate as seller?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – how much spent on advertising, promotion, etc?
Pendari: the When is a major thing.. as it lets us know how soon we have to plan the budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – how much for the Guild?
Sudane Erato: whew!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so – after we have a budget 🙂 That sounds good to me.
Satchmo Prototype: that’s a good list Gwyn
Pendari: yes.. that is a great list for the proposal Gwyn!
Sudane Erato: sure…
Garnet Psaltery: Sellers ough tto be citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a list of *questions*, lol
Garnet Psaltery: it is an Expo of the city after all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, can we agree on that? Only citizens can sell?
Sudane Erato: can we proceed this week.. with the assumption there will be a budget…
Sudane Erato: and then approve it next week?
Satchmo Prototype: so who’s interested in being on that comittee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds good, Sudane. But at least we should get a committee working on the proposal, so that we can vote it next week then.
Sudane Erato: yes…color=#777777
Pendari: I have a question I would like to present about the Budget.. Would it be easier for the RA if we had a set L$ amount per month as what we could use (or whatever length of time) and then divide that amount up among the various items we want to see built?
Sudane Erato: Satch is right
Garnet Psaltery: I’ll join a committe if I’m allowed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, drats, I won’t be here next Sunday – but no problem 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: i’ll join as well
Sudane Erato: oooh, I can’t be either
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: Pen, thats a different matter I think
Pendari: What about Saturday?
Eugene Pomeray: welcomke back kendra
Pendari: welcome back Kendra
Sudane Erato: 🙂 wb Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I’ll be on my 3-day-vacation next weekend 😛
Kendra Bancroft: sorry about my connection today –where did I leave off?
Sudane Erato: then lets carry on by email and IM
Satchmo Prototype: and forum!
Pendari: ok Sudane.. I asked the question because I’m not sure how to even begin to decide what project gets what amount if I don’t know how much we have to start with.. haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Satchmo Prototype: lol, actually I meant hte comitte should discuss things on the forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe good point
Satchmo Prototype: and I dunno why I can’t spell that word
Sudane Erato: techinically, we have no revenue
Pendari: lol
Sudane Erato: but we do have cash
Sudane Erato: so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm we have a revenue – just below the running costs.
Sudane Erato: life is a risk 🙂
Sudane Erato: sorry, right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Sudane Erato: no net revenue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry to be a pedant 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Garnet Psaltery: there’ll be money I’m sure by hook or by crook
Sudane Erato: np 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, there is cash…
Pendari: Ok. Does anyone have an idea then about how much we should just state “This is our budget ceiling to be divided among projects we want the guild to work on?”
Sudane Erato: but you must be careful with cash while we lose money each month
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Satchmo Prototype: there are some items, were the sales go into the city coffers still right?
Sudane Erato: Pen… if thats our approach
Garnet Psaltery: well I would suggest other projects have a public subscription attached to them
Sudane Erato: I really feel we must study it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Satchmo – still, we’re losing around L$ 10k per month.
Satchmo Prototype: The stiens, and chicken hats
Sudane Erato: for the longer term impact
Satchmo Prototype: yes, but I’m saying we can recover some city revenue at the expo
Satchmo Prototype: the casino should see more action as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari: Ok. My main concern is that the guild is going to refuse to build for us if we do not figure out *soon* how much we can offer them
Eugene Pomeray: we need a business commitee L(‘
Kendra Bancroft: Might I share the guild’s plans so you can better judge the price of the EXPO?
Pendari: for now we can deal with individual projects though
Satchmo Prototype: Chamber of Commerce maybe Eugene
Sudane Erato: a financial commiittee would be HIGHLY welcome
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tha would be great, kendra 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Sudane Erato: sure
Pendari: yes.. please do Kendra =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, Kendra has a suggestion on how the Guild should work while we can’t pay them…
Kendra Bancroft: okay –what I’d like to see is a huge pavillion in the Mrktplatz with architectural models of future builds
Eugene Pomeray: yes! 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and smaller tents all through the streets selling Expo only items
Gwyneth Llewelyn: During the EXPO, you mean?
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – ok.
Kendra Bancroft: the idea of items that are limited in number being a sales point
Pendari: great idea!
Kendra Bancroft: also free food areas
Sudane Erato: interesting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are “Expo only items”? (sorry to be interrupting all the time 😛 )
Kendra Bancroft: pretzels beer knockwurst
Garnet Psaltery: nice idea – how do we make sur epeople don’t get lost?
Kendra Bancroft: expo only –meaning after the expo they will no longer be for sale
Kendra Bancroft: the tents will all match
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the Expo will offer only Expo only items, and no other items at all?
Kendra Bancroft: and they will be clustered around the Platz –but also set up along streets
Kendra Bancroft: So the Guild needs to build matching small tents , a huge pavillion (tent) and architectural models of major builds to come
Eugene Pomeray: well i have booths
Eugene Pomeray: they mght be a it large
Eugene Pomeray: though
Pendari: ack
Kendra Bancroft: there is already a small Schloss model in my toyshoppe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: Eugene!
Sudane Erato: whew!
Eugene Pomeray: ah great 🙂
Pendari: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I saw the Schloss model 🙂 It’s cute 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: the idea is to make N’burg a BIG attraction during labor day weekend
Pendari: well.. I would think the current shops could still sell their items.. just the stuff in the booths/tents would be EXPO only items?
Sudane Erato: Great!
Garnet Psaltery: what date is that?
Kendra Bancroft: we need volunteer “event hosts” in N’burg costuming
Pendari: The Expo is on Labor day weekend??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for the record for us Euros (we celebrate labour day on May, 1st) – when again is the US Labour day?
Sudane Erato: Sept 3/4
Kendra Bancroft: I’d li8ke it to be
Pendari: *cry*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you
Kendra Bancroft: but it doesn’t have to be
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: but it should take place over several days
Kendra Bancroft: perhaps even a week
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Garnet Psaltery: wjy then?
Sudane Erato: yes… more days would be better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week would be great (I’m thinking *events* of course 😉 )
Sudane Erato: sure
Pendari: ok.. as of right now.. I *may* not be here Labor Day weekend.. but that will *probably* fall through and I”ll be able to be here =)
Kendra Bancroft: like I say doesn’t have to be –but I’d like a Linden presence here before they judge the german welcome area contest on Sept 9th
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Garnet Psaltery: ah that makes sense
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s *clever*, Kendra 😉
Sudane Erato: and thats another great idea
Eugene Pomeray: maybe even video linden 😉
Kendra Bancroft: that’s me –clever
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It surely is, Sudane & Kendra.
Pendari: if I’m here, I’d like to offer to do one of my “original’s only auctions” during the event.. but that may be something I need to mention at the guild meeting..
Sudane Erato: hmmmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Kendra Bancroft: we need exposure –the German welcome area will be good for us, frankly, whether we get the gig or not
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, in that case, I’d suggest starting the Expo on 3/4 September and go throughout the week until the 9th.
Garnet Psaltery: sounds good
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Kendra Bancroft: I would agree, Gwynn
Pendari: sounds good to me
Kendra Bancroft: and that also gives me enough time to build –if the RA acts quickly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the next RA meeting will be held in German, with English subtitles? 😉
Pendari: and I’d be happy to be on any advertising committee =)
Sudane Erato: lol
Pendari: lol Gwyn
Sudane Erato: nooooooooo
Kendra Bancroft: we’re already in subtitles silly
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *was* the joke 😛
Satchmo Prototype: Kendra is there any financial issues regarding compensating the guild for thier work?
Satchmo Prototype: on the Expo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway – not bad, we have, place, time, some guidelines. Now, budget 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari: Ok. The EXPO is not going to be a lasting build. Therefore, I would propose that the budget for it mostly include the cost of the tents and the advertising?
Kendra Bancroft: we should pay event hosts –and cover time and texture costs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, pen.
Pendari: oh yes and hosts
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Kendra Bancroft: The RA should as tourist board take care of adverts
Pendari: true
Satchmo Prototype: indeed
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Pendari: we may not even have to budget for the advertising if we leave it strictly to the RA
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild just makes it all pretty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Kendra Bancroft: and we should set up a donate to the city fountain
Satchmo Prototype: Pendari, maybe a citizen action group could help advertise
Pendari: yes.. great idea Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm good idea!
Kendra Bancroft: in the middle of the platz
Eugene Pomeray: yes, i think we should have city gardens as well…
Pendari: that is a good idea too Satch! A volunteer committee of citizens outside the RA that would like to help advertise voluntarily
Kendra Bancroft: it would be easy enough for me to build a fountain “tip jar”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo, I agree. Anyway, there is “informal advertising”, which is called “evangelisation” 🙂 and is for free.
Satchmo Prototype: I think the RA should stick to free advertising methods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are other types of advertising… at SL Exchange, at Metadverse, the SL messenger or whatever that newspaper is called….
Pendari: haha.. well.. I know it will be in my forum sig.. as I’m a posting fiend :-p
Sudane Erato: that would be great, if possible
Satchmo Prototype: and allow outside citizen groups to spread the word when it costs moneycolor=#777777
Kendra Bancroft: the best thing about the fountain is that the dollar amount is transparent –and the money goes to the fountain instead of an individual
Eugene Pomeray: i’ll help pay for the advertisements 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: who empties the fountain?
Pendari: I like that idea Kendra
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think I can exchange “work”for some ad space in the newspapers, at least…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just need someone to make a nice banner for me 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: If the City has no objection –I’d like the fountain to be set up to deliver donation to the Guild for infrastructure
Kendra Bancroft: and let the Guild set it up in the platz
Pendari: and I can get some of my DJ friends to probably mention it on air some! and if we get some signs, I’m sure I can get a few friends to put them in their shops (as I’ve done for them in the past) =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, I object, actually – that way, we cannot list that income in the overall accouting system.
Garnet Psaltery: will the maypole come down to make room for it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be awesome, pen 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s Guild income –the Guild would pay a tax on the fountain
Sudane Erato: well, the Guild paying a tax would be irregular
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, hmm – well, perhaps, Kendra. Let me think a bit on that.
Satchmo Prototype: we can give it to the city as city revenue from the fountain
Satchmo Prototype: and pay the guild 100% of that revenue at the beginning of every month
Satchmo Prototype: so it shows up in the ledger
Kendra Bancroft: It would be clearly marked
Pendari: the guild paying tax doesn’t *have* to be irregular though =)
Eugene Pomeray: this is a werid idea, but it is possible … how about german folk dacing (or some other active event) every sunday in the platz to attract visitors
Garnet Psaltery: nice idea Satchmo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But kendra was suggesting an easy way to get the Guild some direct income, which I don’t oppose as a principle.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Kendra Bancroft: The city gets a beautiful fountain
Pendari: I agree
Sudane Erato: Satch’s idea is good
Kendra Bancroft: I could easily just do this in Altenburg
Sudane Erato: sounds bureaucratic… biut it makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer Satchmo’s approach, actually.
Kendra Bancroft: But I offer this to the City so they can get taxes
Sudane Erato: sure..
Garnet Psaltery: I think there’d be more room for dancing outside the Platz
Satchmo Prototype: I don’t even think the city should take taxes
Kendra Bancroft: If I set up the same fountain in Altenburg –I’d be tax free
Garnet Psaltery: th fountain belongs in the platz traditionally
Satchmo Prototype: 100% to the guild
Satchmo Prototype: but the city has to start paying the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: How about this
Pendari: I’m thinking a fountain in the platz would be a great addition to the city
Satchmo Prototype: yea that’s certain, a fountain would rock 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild collects 100% of the donations oin the price of a fountain build –until it meets it’s price for the build
Kendra Bancroft: then it reverts to the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is a *great* suggestion!
Kendra Bancroft: and the city can collect
Sudane Erato: well, that makes perfect sense
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Pendari: I can agree to that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that 😉
Satchmo Prototype: me too
Satchmo Prototype: aye
Eugene Pomeray: me too 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: great!
Garnet Psaltery: can we have a good number of prims for the fountain so it looks excellent?
Satchmo Prototype: ok so we set the foundation for a Expo Comittee to run away with this
Kendra Bancroft: I promise the City will gain a beautiful beautiful fountain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, as the fountain will cost L$35,053,177 to build… that means… hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol Gwyn
Sudane Erato: very precise 🙂
Pendari: lol Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: The fountain will actually cost 10K
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And 2 Linden cents 😉
Pendari: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: It’s gonna be scripted
Sudane Erato: 10K is good
Pendari: I can’t wait to see it! =)
Garnet Psaltery: I’mhoping we can have a proper statue on the top
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok – it’s great that Kendra is not always joking, unlike myself 😉 Ok 10 K is fine.
Sudane Erato: of who ?
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve already been working on a statue of Bavaria
Satchmo Prototype: is the Tini city permenant?
Satchmo Prototype: lots of prims in the Platz already
Sudane Erato: who was Bavaria?
Satchmo Prototype: but it’s obviously the spot for a fountain
Garnet Psaltery: well ffountains have a statue on teh top usually I believe
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm yes, that’s a problem indeed. But the Tiny City attracts visitors…
Satchmo Prototype: still?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the statue… hehehe…. wellllll
Pendari: we should make a statue of OMG! I fogot his name.. the Linden who helped us get started on the project
Sudane Erato: I’d like to see the Cupids peeing in the water
Kendra Bancroft: That’s the beauty –I can work very low prim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Haney Linden.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll keep the fountain well under 50 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: sweet
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari: lol
Pendari: there ya go
Eugene Pomeray: excellent
Satchmo Prototype: ok moving along the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pendari: Expo covered for now?
Sudane Erato: well.. the next agenda items are various builds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh – btw, have we all the names for the committee on the Expo yet?
Eugene Pomeray: well for the expo and the liinden contest i propose a Neualtenburg Beautification project
Kendra Bancroft: as soon as the RA votes me a budget –I’ll get to work on assigning guild members tasks
Sudane Erato: shall we ask to receive actual proposals… with budgets, for them?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I would prefer that, Sundane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Kendra Bancroft: excellent idea, Sudane
Pendari: sounds good Sudane
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Pendari: start with the EXPO budget
Pendari: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll work up costs on the tents and pavillions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kendra.
Sudane Erato: the expo budget… we must have a proposal
Sudane Erato: can’t make it up
Kendra Bancroft: obviously the small tent is just step and repeat
Pendari: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that you should definitely be part of the committee as well, Kendra….
Sudane Erato: yes, of course
Kendra Bancroft: But the Pavillin should be grande
Pendari: Kendra.. can you get an expo propsal cost before the end of this meeting? haha
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: actually –I could
Sudane Erato: good
Eugene Pomeray: 😀
Pendari: ok.. then we could budget for the other builds in the meantime =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, wonderful 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, we can move on… 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft

working on budget

color=#777777 Gwyneth Llewelyn: A. The MoCA? Sudane Erato: hehe Eugene Pomeray: we cul d have benches around the city Eugene Pomeray: it would be inexpensive Satchmo Prototype: Eugene lets move beautification to D. Other builds Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: well, I propose that the other buildings have proposals brought to us Eugene Pomeray: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that sounds also a good idea 😉 Pendari: I thought the propsal’s already existed? Sudane Erato: in the form proposed by the Procedures Sudane Erato: do they? Pendari: just a matter of us deciding how much we want to pay for them Kendra Bancroft: If the RA submits to the Guild a request for needed buildings –I could work up an estimate for consideration Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, if they do… where are they? Kendra Bancroft: and a timeline Satchmo Prototype: Kendra has work started on the MoCA already howerver? Pendari: ok.. nm.. haha.. I know the builds are being worked on.. but that is not the same :-p Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, it’s been stopped. Kendra Bancroft: I stopped work on MOCA Kendra Bancroft: I’m still technically on strike Sudane Erato: ahhh Pendari: Kendra stated: Kendra Bancroft: If the RA submits to the Guild a request for needed buildings –I could work up an estimate for consideration Kendra Bancroft: I’ve been building “Isenland” a city in Takalo Satchmo Prototype: but you don’t want us to come to you with requirements for that? Sudane Erato: I feel the issue of public vs private ownership must be discussed Pendari: I think that is a good idea Pendari: err, what Kendra suggested Sudane Erato: proir to solicitimng any Build proposals Pendari: gah.. my responses won’t make sense if I don’t post faster Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I think it’s time we work on that, Sudane. If not, we can ask the people who suggested all the builds to put their proposals, and submit them first to Kendra for budgeting, and later to the RA for voting…. Kendra Bancroft: Even private builds need Guild approval, Sudane –if they are in the walls of the city Pendari: What does the RA think of this suggestion? Pendari: Kendra Bancroft: If the RA submits to the Guild a request for needed buildings –I could work up an estimate for consideration Kendra Bancroft: there are frankly many builds already, I as Gildemeister dissapprove of Sudane Erato: well, kendra…. not really true Pendari: would that qualify as the guild being able to create a proposal for us? Gwyneth Llewelyn: It sounds good, Pendari, but, as Sudane pointed out, we should work the “model” of submission. Kendra Bancroft: No, Sudane –very true Sudane Erato: hmmmm Kendra Bancroft: it’s in the Constitution Sudane Erato: private land in the city… Pendari: right.. but we moved that to the OTHER RA PROPOSALS section of todays agenda.. I thought this meeting today was more informal Kendra Bancroft: private land must still meet the covenant –no? Sudane Erato: the constitution was written before the current land ownershiop arrangements Sudane Erato: yes! it must meet the covenants Sudane Erato: but they do not include the guild approving all builds Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe that’s no real excuse, Sudane 🙂 I mean the US Constitution was written before there was an Internet, and it handles the Internet nicely 😉 Sudane Erato: on private land Kendra Bancroft: and which branch of government, according to the constitution, jusges whether or not a build meets the covenant? Sudane Erato: thats a good question Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is that the Guild has the right to judge the builds in the City… Pendari: I go by the Constitution, if there is something other than that because of the Land Deed stuff, it seriously needs to be brought forth Sudane Erato: it is a concern Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just works as the authority for city planning, whatever that is called Gwyneth Llewelyn: It = the Guild Pendari: sorry, I don’t mean that to be harsh.. I just want to be informed so I can make true information and contributions =) Kendra Bancroft: The I will just hand out guild badges for display on stores that meet Guild approval –they may choose whether or not to display them Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with you, Pen. ~~:Pendari: Well, the guild to me is our protection that builds inside the city will conform to our policy standardsGwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, that’s an interesting idea, Kendra 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Pendari Sudane Erato: if the guild will police the covenant standrads Kendra Bancroft: so if a build isn’t Guild approved –at least it’s aesthetics won’t be judged as Guild work Pendari: even private land inside the city (and by the way how is that possible??) should to me fall under the guild policies for theme Sudane Erato: then it seems to me that the guild will need to show its standrads… who it will judge Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Sudane Sudane Erato: how it will judge, sorry Garnet Psaltery: I agree with covenant standards of cours e- I’d find it helpful to know which are good examples Sudane Erato: remember, this is private land we are talking about Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari, there *is* private land in the city already! Kendra Bancroft: I don’t want poor builds to reflect on the Guild Sudane Erato: the GUILD was conceived as an entity to create public property Pendari: yes Gwyneth.. but I have no idea how that is possible.. hehe.. I don’t know how land gets to be private I mean =) Kendra Bancroft: It’s voluntary –like the Comic’s Code Sudane Erato: hehe… you buy it Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: I meant the houses for now… they’re private, but the façades are Guild-approved and cannot be changed. Pendari: how is it different than the Deed? Sudane Erato: I don’t agree with that Gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *is* the Deed 🙂 Pendari: ok.. so then I have private land because I hold two deeds? Sudane Erato: not that the facades are Guild approved Sudane Erato: yes Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: They are not? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But they should be 😉 Sudane Erato: not in the covenants Pendari: I read that the restrictions on builds inside the city are more strict due to keeping the theme Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: ahhhh Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Sudane Erato: exactly Satchmo Prototype: Kendra, I like the idea of having a guild logo on things the guild makes Satchmo Prototype: and it’s not hard for someone to build there own strcuture and work with the guild Pendari: well who else besides the guild would be responsible for deciding what is and is not approvable? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I see. So the issue is only who “interprets” what the “theme” is? Satchmo Prototype: and have teh help and approval of a meister Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pendari – my point exactly. Sudane Erato: Tes, that makes sense.. Kendra Bancroft: there –they can just display them in their stores Sudane Erato: but the issue of standrads then becomes very important Pendari: I would not argue otherwise =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does. Garnet Psaltery: is this badeg available as a single-sided item as well? Garnet Psaltery: Hello Dianne Dianne Mechanique: hello all 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: there’s one on the floor Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hiya Dianne 🙂 Pendari: my other worry would be.. if people can just go outside the guild.. how would we budget.. because then we would have artists in direct competition with the guild Garnet Psaltery: kendra, is this necessarily box-shaped? Pendari: hey Dianne =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft Kendra, you missed the N in “Neualtenmburg” 😛 Pendari: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops and I put an extra Mcolor=#777777color=#777777 Eugene Pomeray: hello dianne L( Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari: haha Kendra Bancroft: Hiya, Dianne Dianne Mechanique: waht are we talking about? Eugene Pomeray: brb, need to relog Dianne Mechanique: box? Kendra Bancroft: No –I’m just lazy –it would be flat like a decal Satchmo Prototype: private property Garnet Psaltery: oh I see :o) Garnet Psaltery: it looks lovely Satchmo Prototype: I like it as well Garnet Pendari: ok.. what about asking the Guild Meister for a list of standards. And we could take that proposal into the RA and discuss making it a bill? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private property, and the role
of the Guild approving buildings inside the City walls. Sudane Erato: good Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew, whew, Pen, the SC won’t like that. Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari: I hate the thought of ammending the constitution, so a bill would allow us some flexibility Kendra Bancroft: I can do that Kendra Bancroft: for one –too many scripts Sudane Erato: the standrads must be enforced all over, not just inside Kendra Bancroft: it lags the marktplatz Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the aesthetical principles for the buildings are the province of the Guild, not of the RA Garnet Psaltery: yes! Pendari: The SC may be more in favor of a bill than anything touching the constitution though Gywn =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, there is nothing to prevent the RA to make *suggestions* 🙂 Garnet Psaltery: lag city Pendari: I agree Sudane Kendra Bancroft: There is also nothing preventing the Guild from deciding what is or is not a Guild approved structure Satchmo Prototype: Kendra I could help write scripting policies Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Kendra – I think that both the Secret Tiny City and the Casino have too many scripts:P Pendari: true Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: And precisely, Kendra. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No matter what the RA says 😛 Pendari: lol Kendra Bancroft: I would appreciate that, Satch Garnet Psaltery: what worries me about the tiny city is that it is what people think is there when they arrive at the hub Satchmo Prototype: as a guildmember for the guild of course I mean Kendra Bancroft: I know, Satch –we’ll talk about that at the Guild meeting Sudane Erato: Can we resolve this topiC? Pendari: really? I always see the church first when I hub in Sudane Erato: hmmm Garnet Psaltery: I mean the location at trhe top of the screen Satchmo Prototype: Sudane break it down into smaller bits Pendari: Ok. Sudane Kendra Bancroft: that’s another thing –I’d really like to knock down the prim count on that church Kendra Bancroft: It’s insane Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no, you too, Kendra 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn *rolls up her sleeves* Sudane Erato: we need these things as proposals Pendari: haha.. yeah.. but I guess we can bring that up at the Guild meeting Kendra Bancroft: I can make it look better with half the prims, Gwyn Sudane Erato: a free-ramging discussion will not accomplish action Kendra Bancroft: and you wouldn’t even notice Garnet Psaltery: what is the topic? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard many architects saying the same, Kendra 😉 But yes, let’s talk it over at the Guild meeting…color=#777777 Satchmo Prototype: I agree Sudane Pendari: Yes. The RA needs to give the Guild a list of the builds we need budget propsals for Sudane Erato: yes, thats one Sudane Erato: 2 Sudane Erato: that there be stabndards developed by the guild to apply to private builds Kendra Bancroft: yes –and I’m asking the RA to consider a church refit in the proposal Sudane Erato: and 3 Pendari: noted Kendra Sudane Erato: that the discussion of private vs public land be held Sudane Erato: ie should the MOCA be private, etc Sudane Erato: thats 3 topics Kendra Bancroft: MOCA private? Kendra Bancroft: why? Garnet Psaltery: I’d like to subscriptions for builds liek the MoCA Garnet Psaltery: to see Pendari: Ok. The first .. We need a list of builds to give the Guild so they can give us proposals. Sudane Erato: that an interest group, under frnchise from the city, own the MOCA Pendari: Someone in the RA want to make a notecard as we list the builds? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s part of the MPP’s program, Kendra 😉 Sudane Erato: its a proposal Kendra Bancroft: again –why? Sudane Erato: to be discussed Kendra Bancroft: I don’t see why you would disenfranchise the Guild that way Sudane Erato: this is not the time I suggest we discuss this Garnet Psaltery: I see it as a way to provide quality builds without asking a lot of money from poorer individuals Kendra Bancroft: This IS the time Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the MoCA being private does not “disinfranchise” the Guild in any way, since it’s highly likely that only the Guild will build it, not run it. Kendra Bancroft: it’s at the heart of my strike Dianne Mechanique: isnt the issue about running the Moca not building it privately> Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also agree with Kendra, we *should* decide upon the model. Sudane Erato: the overwhelming requirement of the City is to generate funds to survive Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Dianne. Pendari: I personally think it should be up to the guild to take propsals from private interest groups to run the _MoCHA. That Group would fall under the guild until the MoCA because the property of the city. At which time the City could try for a different Sudane Erato: the proposal to “privatize” some areas goes to that purpose Pendari: interest group, or work on a budge for the current group running it Sudane Erato: a group will have it in their interest to generate the funds for their land Kendra Bancroft: No! The MOCA is an art’s center –and you would deprive N’burg’s own citizens of haviung the only art’s center in N’burg go to private interests Sudane Erato: that is the “why” Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey, Pen, that’s not what your party’s program says 😉 Kendra Bancroft: I can’t even understand the logic Kendra Bancroft: It’s an insult to the artist citizens of N’burg and the Guild Sudane Erato: please Kendra Bancroft: it’s like you think we’re just construction crew Dianne Mechanique: maybe the MPP should make a concrete proposal Dianne Mechanique: and we discuss it then Kendra Bancroft: don’t “please” me Garnet Psaltery: I don’t see it that wayu Sudane Erato: exactly Sudane Erato: thats what I proposed Sudane Erato: which is why it is not ready to be talked about Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Pendari: Well Gwyn.. I like the ultimate goal of that.. but I still want it to fall under Guild before it becomes a private person running their things Garnet Psaltery: I’m thinking of a long tradition in the UK for example of the general public giving money to a project for the use of all Kendra Bancroft: That’s like saying we should have the RA be private owners Eugene Pomeray: sorry, back Kendra Bancroft: and outsource the government Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just teasing you, Pendari 😉 That was just a political maneuver 😉 Kendra Bancroft: Either this government is for it’s citizens first –or it isn’t Garnet Psaltery: I agree it is – I am only concerned that people without uch money shold nt have to fork out a lot for evetything Sudane Erato: these are slogans Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, the SDF, which doesn’t have a majority, will never agree to have in-wall city structures run by anyone who isn’t a citizen Kendra Bancroft: and if it MUST be private –thn I would least hope that the RA gives the Guild first refusal on ownership Kendra Bancroft: The Guild can buy it as a corporation Sudane Erato: ahhh, that would be interesting… Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is more like it. Garnet Psaltery: yes Garnet Psaltery: it certainly shoul dbe a matter for citizens only Sudane Erato: then the Guild will pay the monthly fee for it Pendari: for the record, I would say that I think the MPP does seriuosly need to get together and hash over the platform. There was not a *ton* of time before the election. And I agree with Sundane and other MPP members that our platform is something we will Sudane Erato: like everyone else Pendari: discuss not at this meeting =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will also insist a bit that *any* group owning “privatized” infrastructure has at *least* one Guild member. Kendra Bancroft: I’ll bring the idea to the Guild Garnet Psaltery: so what has been decided? Kendra Bancroft: But I do hope that the RA gives The Guild first refusal Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I. Neoteny Hermes: Eugene is sitting on top of the clock, if anyone is interested. Sudane Erato: I suspect I do too Garnet Psaltery: time out? Kendra Bancroft: it vibrates every fifteen minutes Pendari: LOL Sudane Erato: hehe… Pendari: may I request a 5 minute recess? Sudane Erato: sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, this also means that the RA has to set in their budget how much return it expects to have from several structures, and that is for me the key issue (since it means budgeting for wh
at we want to have in the city) Pendari: and good point Gwyn! Garnet Psaltery: good ideacolor=#777777color=#777777 Kendra Bancroft: in the meantime –The Guild can set up the infrastructure of the EXPO for 5K plus 10% of the gross Kendra Bancroft: But is needed for the City –badly Sudane Erato: Kendra, how will the transactions happen… ie the 10%? Kendra Bancroft: honor system is good enough for the Guild Sudane Erato: the vendors will all be private? Kendra Bancroft: If we can set up City vendors all the better –but Ulrika would need to do that Sudane Erato: yes, she would Kendra Bancroft: aand I think she’s in baby land Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: I’m a gypsy Garnet Psaltery: have we started again? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen is not back yet…. Sudane Erato: so… I can certainly agree with that budget Eugene Pomeray: may i ask what i am stuck in Dianne Mechanique: anyone know if ulrika is acaully in the hospital? Dianne Mechanique: or having the baby? Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, but she’s due any day now… Kendra Bancroft: The private Guild treasury is kept by my alt “Sissie Maracas” Sudane Erato: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is Pen back? Sudane Erato: Kendra, we should have a little document… Sudane Erato: the Rudeen cab “Pay” Sissie Kendra Bancroft: I agree, Sudane Pendari: back.. sorry.. Pendari: can I request the floor for a minute? Sudane Erato: sure Kendra Bancroft: Or I can just set up a tip jar that keeps the money displayed Pendari: I would really like to give my nutshell opinion which I think stands behind the RA, The Guild, the Constitution and my party.. Pendari: On this issue.. Kendra Bancroft: and you can pay the tipjar Pendari: I think the guild should set the standards as we talked about earlier. A proposal of those standards to be presnted to the RA.. Kendra Bancroft: I have one that actually holds the money until an authorized owner empties it Pendari: I also think that any builds deemed by the RA as absolutely needed by the city should be done by the guild Pendari: However, I think any other builds not deemed NEEDED can be private run as long as they fall under the approved standards Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: good Kendra Bancroft: agreed, Pendari Garnet Psaltery: agree Pendari: I think this would allow the city flexibility and not compromise the guild Honey Ingmann: personally i think sims that are zoned and have coordinated bulding look so much better than the ones that don’t Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, I can definitely agree on *that* 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: TY, Honey Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I agree with you, Honey, hehe – or I wouldn’+t be here at all 🙂 ) Honey Ingmann: : ) Kendra Bancroft: I’m just pissed that everyone looks better in my clothes than I do Honey Ingmann: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pendari: I honestly think in that way we can combine the deeds, the private ownership “I want to be my own business person”, the look of the sim, and the needs of the city by the RA all in one Sudane Erato: thats great Pendari… Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Pendari: whew.. thank you for letting me get that out =) Sudane Erato: can we all agree on her motion? Garnet Psaltery: yes Kendra Bancroft: yes –I agree, Pendari –that’s marvelous Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that. Sudane Erato: great… Satchmo Prototype: Aye Kendra Bancroft: I can’t vote on the motion –but “Aye” in spirit Pendari: hehe Sudane Erato: I propose that we adjourn and continue at the enxt emmeting Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 Sudane Erato: the Guild mtg is in 30 min Kendra Bancroft: good –that gives me a half hour break before the Guild meeting Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* Kendra Bancroft: In the Gasthaus next to the canal Yogeswari Padar: sudane, can anyhone attend the guild meeting? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree on the proposal, but I’m just one vote 😉 Kendra Bancroft: anyone Sudane Erato: thats Kendras question Pendari: I would say aye Sudane.. but I think we need to assign someone to collect a list of builds by the RA to go ahead and give to the guild so that we can get them working on proposals before the next meeting? Satchmo Prototype: yea no real voting happened today Sudane Erato: hmmmm Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is open to all citizens of Neualtenburg Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks pen. I actually wished to have that decided as well. Satchmo Prototype: just show of support Yogeswari Padar: good, thanks 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree, Satchmo 😛 Sudane Erato: i think the list needs to be discussed Satchmo Prototype: though we decided we wern’t voting today, lol Sudane Erato: well, we did Pendari: lol Kendra Bancroft: discuss away –but we have agreed on the EXPO budget yes? Sudane Erato: but todays proceedings are informal Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, Sudane, but we should set limits. I mean, in one week, with 17 or so people, we can come up with 2,000 proposals and ideas 😛 Kendra Bancroft: and the dates? Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Kendra’s questions! Sudane Erato: Kendra, yes… Sudane Erato: I think we have Pendari: I propose the builds in the agenda be the only ones we vote on today Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope there is no “yes, but…” in there. Pendari: as to just going on the list for the Guild Garnet Psaltery: what’s left int eh agenda? Kendra Bancroft: when the RA decides on the dates –I will at least amend my EXPO poster Pendari: you can get a copy of the agenda from the penguin =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Left: the election system, recruitment & events… Kendra Bancroft: so e-mail me with that decision when it’s reached Sudane Erato: the dates you have suggested are good ones Pendari: haha.. look at all the streams Kendra Bancroft: okay –I’ll go with those Garnet Psaltery: rather too muhc for today perhaps>? Sudane Erato: I think thats safe… there are no disagreements Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 Pendari: yes.. I say lets stick with those dates.. we need *something* to be definite.. hehe Sudane Erato: 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: and the budget is good too Kendra Bancroft: great Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree again that we have agreed on the dates before, and so don’t need to agree any more on that. Agreed? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 Kendra Bancroft: Now I have a second topic for the Guild meeting 🙂 Satchmo Prototype: I agree Gwyn 🙂 Garnet Psaltery: Sudane what do you think we can cover now? Pendari: ok.. can I propose that since most can not be here next week. that the RA spend the next couple of days in emails discussing the builds on the Agenda for which ones we want to get proposals from the guild on? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable, Pendari. Sudane Erato: yes Pen Pendari: and get a definite vote by say Wednesday? then the list can be given to the guild before the next RA meeting? Kendra Bancroft: yes –it does Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the mean time, and off the record, Kendra *does* already have some cost estimates on *some* of the buildings Kendra Bancroft: yes –and a agreement on the fountain I assume Pendari: yes Garnet Psaltery: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: 10K cap on donations –the The Guild gives it to the city Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: shall we adjourn? Garnet Psaltery: YES! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari: i’m in aye that other agenda items be moved to next meeting =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do we need to agree as well? 😉 Kendra Bancroft: yeah –I need to strecth my legs before the Gilde meeting Sudane Erato: yes Pen

Satchmo Prototype: heh can we have some music at the guild meeting 🙂
Pendari: and personally I expected this meeting to go long being the first one.. hehe.. I think everyone did a great job and I’m so glad the whole RA was here! =)

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 11, 2005

Sudane Erato: recorder started

Pendari Lorentz: welcome fellow RA members =)

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂

Satchmo Prototype: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have left out one item from the biiig agenda…

Pendari Lorentz: Since the vote was unanimous to accept the proposed RA

procedures for Meetings, I have included a copy in the Agenda for

review if needed

Pendari Lorentz: what’s that Gwyneth?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which was our entry to the contest for the “german

WA”. or did I miss that?

Sudane Erato: oh!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I forget what the deadline for that is.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps it’s already too late 😛

Pendari Lorentz: ahh.. hmm.. yes.. lets put that with the other Contest

item as well

Sudane Erato: i don’t know

Pendari Lorentz: The Guild has been working on the German Bid

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (checking 🙂 )

Pendari Lorentz: but I’m not certain about it either

Sudane Erato: thats great!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah forget it

Pendari Lorentz: we would most likely need something from Kendra on

status before we could really talk about it anyway. If that makes sense?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Deadline was August 26th

Pendari Lorentz: ah

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Sudane Erato: oh well

Pendari Lorentz: oh well 🙁

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless there was an “extension”

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll talk to Kendra about it.

Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that sounds good

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so, back to the “first” item 🙂

Sudane Erato: sure

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do we need any discussion on that?

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. The first item on the agenda deals with our final

wording that we want to submit to the guild for the two builds we

approved as needed for the city

Sudane Erato: well, you had said you’d like to change a few things…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. That’s the 2nd item, lol

Pendari Lorentz: if no one has an issue with that wording, I can drop

Kendra the notecard

Sudane Erato: but that it was ok for now

Pendari Lorentz: what’s that Gwyneth?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I said before, I had some questions & issues on

the proposal for the meetings

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll postpone those questions & issues

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ok, this is the point before point 1.

Sudane Erato: you can draft a correcting proposal 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry. This *is* a bit confusing!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane – I agree. And sorry, Pen

Pendari Lorentz: ah.. yes! Ok. We had adapted the procedures. But yes,

we also agreed we could re-vist the procedure. I would motion that any

ideas we may have, put them in a notecard and we can submit it for a

future agenda proposal

Sudane Erato: i agree

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed. And anyway, I wished to have those procedures

be field-tested *before* I make any comments on them 🙂

Sudane Erato: that makes sense

Pendari Lorentz: yes. I think that is a good idea too

Gwyneth Llewelyn: The comments may not make any sense if we find out

that everything works well 🙂

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, on the “re-vamped Rathaus” item, I have

absolutely nothing to add/change.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: One “aye” on that submission to Kendra. 🙂

Sudane Erato: yes, i agree on that too

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, the MoCA….

Pendari Lorentz: I remember your concerns about conditions you wanted

for the MoCA Gwyneth. Is there something you want added?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: The *only* issue I have is with the following

sentence: “The RA will also encourage the formation of a “MoCA Management”

(MoCAM) group, composed in the majority of citizens of Neualtenburg”

Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just clarify that point.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you know, the SDF is reluctant to have “outsiders”

running the Museum.

Sudane Erato: ahhhh

Pendari Lorentz: ahh

Sudane Erato: I was concerned that we would not have enough interest

among the citizens

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also, I would like the Guild to have the “first

pick” of the MoCAM

Sudane Erato: at the same time it must be controlled by the citizens

Pendari Lorentz: but would not they become citizens of Neualt by

“working” in the city?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the Guild feels they don’t want to run it, well

then, it’s up for the citizens

Sudane Erato: no

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, pen

Sudane Erato: only landowners are citizens now

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your concerns are very valid, though, Sudane 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. the constitution states that someone working in

the city can be a citizen

Pendari Lorentz: bah!

Sudane Erato: hehe

Sudane Erato: well..

Pendari Lorentz: *reserves constitution discussion for now* hehe

Sudane Erato: yet another contradiction

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the Constitution does not say that the citizen

becomes automatically one 🙂

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes lol, Pen

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, it’s just a question of principle.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t oppose having non-citizens in Neualtenburg’s

“official” thingies…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But

Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, we need to define the status of

“tourists”

Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. ok.. that was my misunderstand for now.. but

yes, I agree if they are not citizens, it is not as great an idea, but I

also agree with Sudane that there may not be enough intrest within

Sudane Erato: well… we should have some statement that goes to the

guuild

Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. “visiting non-citizens” who also participate.

Sudane Erato: ok

Sudane Erato: thats good

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is one for the Constitution revision, I think.

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or eventually it could be a “Bill of Rights” for

non-citizens

Gwyneth Llewelyn: they would get a notecard when teleporting in

Pendari Lorentz: interesting idea!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA could propose that

Gwyneth Llewelyn: see if the SC agrees

Sudane Erato: defining citizenship was always to be one of your

projects, Gwyn 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol, Sudane – very true 😀

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So

Pendari Lorentz: ok. motion to put that proposal discussion on next RA

Agenda

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two changes on that wording:

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) that the Guild is allowed first to set up the

MoCAM itself

Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s give them, say, 2 weeks to get back to us with

their approval or not

Gwyneth Llewelyn: If after 2 weeks they don’t say they’ll run the

museum…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll post in the forums that all are welcome to

become the MoCAM

Sudane Erato: ooooh

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) that only citizens are allowed

Sudane Erato: that makes me anxious

Gwyneth Llewelyn: anxious? 🙂

Sudane Erato: posting in the forums

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol

Pendari Lorentz: hehe

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we need to tell people about the MoCAM

Sudane Erato: true

Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW – I have a suggestion for “non-citizens” in the

MoCAM

Sudane Erato: I love word of mouth

Pendari Lorentz: well.. first we need to get the proposal from the

guild

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s propose the non-citizens as “honourable

citizens” 🙂

Sudane Erato: hmmm

Sudane Erato: off topic 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way, we sidestep the issue hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: No

Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, I’m really against having

non-citizens running the MoCAM

Pendari Lorentz: before we can vote on what the guild proposes. They

may very well propose someone else leading the MoCAM from the get go

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since it would take time to agree on other

“status” – tourist, resident, etc

Sudane Erato: thats right

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok

Sudane Erato: better just to say citizens only

Pendari Lorentz: so we really need to get this to them, so we can see

what they want as well

Satchmo Prototype: yea, start with citizen only

Sudane Erato: yes pen

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Satchmo Prototype: then loosen the policy if we have troubles

Sudane Erato: ok..

Pendari Lorentz: this is not our final vote on the status of the MoCA

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Pen.

Pendari Lorentz: yes Satch. I like that

Satchmo Prototype: I’d prefer outsiders buy a plot in Neualt and live

here as well 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course 😀

Sudane Erato: yes exactly

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree on those two changes, and then

submit the revised notecard to Kendra?

Pendari Lorentz: ok. So the wording that we are submitting to the Guild

on the MoCA (to gather their proposal). What should be added and where?

Pendari Lorentz: yes

Pendari Lorentz: how about you email them Gwyneth

Pendari Lorentz: so that we can see the full thing. To make it easier

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Add a line: “The Guild will have the first choice of

setting up the MoCAM if they wish”

Satchmo Prototype: But one thing

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and delete the half-sentence of “a majority of

citizens” to be replaced with “of citizens”

Sudane Erato: sounds good

Satchmo Prototype: if we are gonna have any sort of performance metrics

tied to the lease for commercial companyies, like…

Satchmo Prototype: if you get XYZ dwell your lease is automatically

renewed

Satchmo Prototype: else it will be open for bid

Sudane Erato: satch, be nice to work towarsd that

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I like that 🙂 hehe

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I’ll have to copy that from the meeting log and

I’ll send out an email that shows the entire paragraph with the changes.

Because I can’t visualize it while we are meeting

Satchmo Prototype: then that should hold true for the Guild as well

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s fine, Pen 🙂 )

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Satchmo – I agree as well on that!

Sudane Erato: oooh, that would be tough to impose on them

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: It wouldn’t be tough, it would be fair.

Sudane Erato: true

Satchmo Prototype: you know, we shouldn’t have the guild runnign a

business just to have a business

Sudane Erato: hehe… but tough to do

Satchmo Prototype: the business here need to generate dewll and revenue

Pendari Lorentz: I motion that you submit that as a proposal for

discussion at the next RA Meeting Satchmo

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol – yes, I agree 🙂

Sudane Erato: yes!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: “What the RA giveth, the RA taketh away” 🙂

Satchmo Prototype: okie dokie

Sudane Erato: hehe

Satchmo Prototype: I’m on it Pen

Pendari Lorentz: I think it would be a great thing to discuss =)

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be very interested in watching those metrics 😉

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we move on?

Satchmo Prototype: aye

Pendari Lorentz: ok. first item on agenda Summary and Action: Reveamped

Rathaus wording approved. MoCA wording will be added to as per

suggested. This will be emailed out to RA memebers before being submitted to

the Guild.

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Sudane Erato: yes, great

Pendari Lorentz: second item

Pendari Lorentz: what have any of us done to advertise for the EXPO?

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Pendari Lorentz: *blush*

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn covers

Satchmo Prototype: :/

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could give my old excuse of this having been an

unusually tough week 😉

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is also true – but an excuse nevertheless hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does any of you have logos or a notecard on the Expo?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll start putting “ads” in all the events I run,.

Sudane Erato: we should all have the posters Kendra did

Pendari Lorentz: I would like to do a massive advertising frenzy

starting tomorrow. As the EXPO is next week. Kendra submitted a list on the

forums of what will be at the Expo. Would someone volunteer to put that

announcement in a notecard and create a sign for the expo

Pendari Lorentz: that we can start putting out?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra *has* a sign 😛

Sudane Erato: when really does it start?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13th

Sudane Erato: theres confusion on that

Pendari Lorentz: well.. there you go :-p but we need a sign too. hehe..

Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh?

Pendari Lorentz: the 12th

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol

Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, confusion 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: hmm

Sudane Erato: I thought the 10th

Pendari Lorentz: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl

Pendari Lorentz: LOL

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (checking Kendra’s post)

Sudane Erato: the birthday is the 12th, tomorrow

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point.

Satchmo Prototype: Expo starts tomorrow

Satchmo Prototype: ?

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. RA Homework. Confirm date and know it by tomorrow.

We need signs. If Kendra has one, she needs to give us a copy. Or we

need to make our own. But it does the RA no good to not have access to

the advertising materials we need 🙁

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed 🙁

Pendari Lorentz: woah.. tomorrow?

Pendari Lorentz: that can’t be right can it?

Pendari Lorentz: I thought it was next week 🙁

Satchmo Prototype: me to.. but tomorrow is the 12th

Pendari Lorentz: err, meaning.. after next week

Pendari Lorentz: weekend

Gwyneth Llewelyn: First post of Kendra: “WE know it’s Sept 16 thru the

24th”

Pendari Lorentz: Ok

Pendari Lorentz: whew

Sudane Erato: ahhh, ok 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. We need the sign from Kendra to pass out. But we

can also make our own.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, shall we announce it for 16th – 24th then?

Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: that is the same list post where Kendra details some

of the happenings of the Expo

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I *have* claimed a tent, btw 🙂 Only did it

yesterday, though)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, pen.

Sudane Erato: i saw 🙂

Sudane Erato: the Gwyn tent 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: I’ll be happy to post in the Forums about the event.

and I’ll be happy to post the individual event times as soon as someone

gets me that information

Sudane Erato: I’m not sure anyone has that info

Pendari Lorentz: right

Pendari Lorentz: I will have to get that from Kendra

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Kendra suggests a few events.

Satchmo Prototype: and people selling things shoudl post product

announcements in the forums

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be adding a few as well.

Satchmo Prototype: I plan on doing that for my stuff

Sudane Erato: ahhh yes

Pendari Lorentz: there is no way to advertise if things are not

organized =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good idea, Satchmo 🙂

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: that’s fine Satch!

Pendari Lorentz: who wants to get the sign from Kendra that we can

start putting around? =)

Pendari Lorentz: and does it have in it the info that is in her post on

the forums?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (IMing Kendra now)

Pendari Lorentz: if not.. we need to get that in there with a notecard

giver

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra is on her way 🙂

Sudane Erato: great!

Pendari Lorentz: oh good! =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀

Pendari Lorentz: Should we put an ad in some of the ad signs that

people do in SL?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: telehubs or metaadverse?

Pendari Lorentz: the Metadvert or something?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: telehubs are free

Sudane Erato: does that pay?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: although nobody sees them, LOL

Sudane Erato: there are too many

Sudane Erato: and you always rush out

Pendari Lorentz: yes. I can do the hubs one.. but advertising there is

not the best.. but since it is free, it can’t hurt =)

Satchmo Prototype: we should do a snapzilla photojournalism campaign of

it the day it starts

Sudane Erato: so as not to be conked on the head

Satchmo Prototype: snapzilla is good for word of mouth

Satchmo Prototype: and it’s free

Pendari Lorentz: very good idea Satch

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: it won’t be on the second life website at all..

because we are a mature sim.. but it *will* be able to be on Snapzilla =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm

Pendari Lorentz: yes.. they only pull pictures for the home page that

originate in PG sims

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who had the silly idea to get us a Mature sim? 😀

Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL

Sudane Erato: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. it wasn’t me.. but I would have begged for one

Sudane Erato: seems like everyone went that way 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just joking, Pen 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Pendari Lorentz: it is so we can dance naked in the fountain

Pendari Lorentz: *wink*

Sudane Erato: after all, we are Mature, now, aren’t we?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol

Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*

Pendari Lorentz: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talking of which…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone is “testing” the fountain 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: cool!

Sudane Erato: I hear

Pendari Lorentz: you hear?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably Bond 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: I don’t hear anything 🙁

Pendari Lorentz: oh.. would help to put my headphones on :-p

Pendari Lorentz: *blush*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww rofl

Pendari Lorentz: ok. is Kendra close? should we wait or come back to

this item?

Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*

Sudane Erato: she’s here

Her words: (via Gwyneth Llewelyn) “Kendra Bancroft: be right there”

Pendari Lorentz: haha.. speak of the devil!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there she is, true to her own words, lol

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome Kendra 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: hey Kendra =)

Pendari Lorentz: *wave*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s still headbanging on the door

Kendra Bancroft: Hey

Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re welcome to come *in* Kendra 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Sudane Erato: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: me thinks she is a wee bit laggy

Sudane Erato: yes

Satchmo Prototype: but we like her anyway

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: haha

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I can understand *that*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the last few days, SL has lagged a bit more than

usual to me 😛

Pendari Lorentz: 🙁

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve spent the morning tweaking my Mac, but to no

avail. Still only 3-4 fps in Neualtenburg, except outside the city

walls…

Pendari Lorentz: wow

Satchmo Prototype: are we pausing the agenda?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra – turn 90 degrees to your left, go two steps,

and you’re here 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: just keep talkin’

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re good at that 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Kendra. Mainly we need from you a sign we can put

out about the EXPO. that has a notecard giver in it with details about

the EXPO

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: I thought your post summary on the forums was good for

details =)

Kendra Bancroft: why not use the expo poster I made?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I think that the best way to go around this is

to have all people interested in a tent to contact Kendra directly.

Pendari Lorentz: that’s fine! we just need copies of it.. and to be

able to modify it so we can put a notecard inside

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes – that would be great, kendra 🙂 Drop it on our

profile 🙂

Sudane Erato: thats what i’ve been telling people

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: yes.. if you are interested in a tent.. contact

Kendra.

Sudane Erato: yes

Kendra Bancroft: what the bloody hell is up wuth this door?

Pendari Lorentz: we are beating you with it

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: You did it, Kendra!

Sudane Erato: yea!

Kendra Bancroft: I’m gonna cry

Sudane Erato: no 🙁

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. If you can drop a modable copy of the sign on us

Kendra, we can then get a notecard together and put a notecard giver

into the sign

Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww no

Pendari Lorentz: don’t cry 🙁

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we go on?

Sudane Erato: sure

Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item Summary and Action: Get details of EXPO

into a sign (provided by Kendra) and make sign ready to be distributed by

Mon Sept 12th. Other advertising actions to be done individually.

Sudane Erato: great!

Kendra Bancroft: we really need to fix this lag in the marktplatz

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pen

Pendari Lorentz: /nod Kendra

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, kendra

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. 3rd agenda item. Neualtenburg Currency Proposal

Sudane Erato: so next?

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here we go… hehehehe

Sudane Erato: well.. is there the feeling we need tgo change?

Sudane Erato: we are suffering badly

Sudane Erato: from the exchange rate

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Everybody is 🙂

Sudane Erato: right now its 287 to the dollar

Kendra Bancroft: wouldn’t it be just a simple matter of fixing the

linden amount to the US amount? By adjusting to the average GOM price?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uggh

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but we have to vote on that.

Sudane Erato: the issue is that we fixed once in June

Kendra Bancroft: why? The amount was always based on US payments

Sudane Erato: then, how often do we re-fix

Pendari Lorentz: My only real issue with the proposal is the fact that

it means we have to make sure the website is updated with the new info

ASAP each month. Not sure Ulrika will always be available

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.

Sudane Erato: once a week

Sudane Erato: or once a year

Kendra Bancroft: the fact that we allowed linden opayments without

adjusting was an overight on our part –not a bill

Sudane Erato: the website should not be a problem

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, Sudane proposed (I think it was you, Sudane)

that we only change it once every month.

Kendra Bancroft: it should be adjusted every mponth

Sudane Erato: no Kendra… we did have an adjustment

Sudane Erato: it just hasnt been changed

Sudane Erato: thats the issue

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh

Sudane Erato: my proposal suggests once a month as well

Kendra Bancroft: But we neer voted to fix that adjustment

Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean the prices charged in L$ are not the ones

shown at the Website right now?

Sudane Erato: no

Pendari Lorentz: I think adjusting it monthly only makes sense. We need

to keep in step with the world economy I would think (SL world that is)

Satchmo Prototype: I think the Linden value should be changed on teh

first to reflect a hard US$ amount with 5% for GOM per suggested by

Sudane

Sudane Erato: no, they are the ones

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah fine.

Kendra Bancroft: so adjusting it everymonth requires no vote –and

besides it’s a Guild treasury issue

Kendra Bancroft: not an RA issue

Satchmo Prototype: the new value should be emailed to everyone as well

Sudane Erato: the website updates automatically from my spreradsheet

Kendra Bancroft: the Guild is the trasurer

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, from the 4 options: “Still accept payments in

$L. Set an exchange rate based on GOM plus 5%. ” sounds the most

reasonable to me.

Kendra Bancroft: Sudane –you are treasurer for the Guild –not the RA

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm yes.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true.

Sudane Erato: so… does that mean I decide unilaterally?

Kendra Bancroft: and the Guild wishes for a monthly adjustment

Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sudane 😀

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: No –it means I do.

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Kendra 😉

Sudane Erato: I feel the pople should decide something like this

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case, problem solved 😉

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m joking 🙂

Sudane Erato: well we all agree

Kendra Bancroft: I could put it up to a Guild vote

Pendari Lorentz: true. This proposal was brought up because there had

been confusion on the fourms. I know I wasn’t really sure if was an RA

issue, but I think that is a reason to have brought it up =)

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA can agree that it’s up for the Guild to

decide, but *recommend* something

Kendra Bancroft: of course

Pendari Lorentz: yes

Sudane Erato: yes, that could be too

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I stick to #2 – Still accept payments in $L. Set an

exchange rate based on GOM plus 5%.

Kendra Bancroft: I’d like the SC’s input as well

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That has my recommendation 🙂

Sudane Erato: Gwyn… we already are at 10% over US$

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your prerrogative, kendra 🙂

Satchmo Prototype: right, per Gwyn’s recomendation 🙂

Sudane Erato: I don’t think we should come down to 5

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm so we’re at 10% over GOM?

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we were, you mean, when we set it up?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok

Kendra Bancroft: I will put it up for a Guild vote –and we will

implement the decision for next month’s billing

Sudane Erato: yes..

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry about my ignorance 😛

Pendari Lorentz: I personally would never vote yes to aproposal that

would take away the ability to pay in Linden dollars =)

Sudane Erato: just for this reason

Gwyneth Llewelyn: search & replace for 5% and go for 10%

Sudane Erato: no Pen..!

Sudane Erato: thats not veing proposed

Sudane Erato: and that would cause our end

Kendra Bancroft: I think we should demand Linden payment based on a

monthly comparison to the US amount

Kendra Bancroft: but that’s just me

Sudane Erato: well, we could

Sudane Erato: payment on L$ is actaully better

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well that would be an alternative, yes.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree. Yes.

Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. Ok. Summary and Action on this agenda item: RA

involvement not needed. Proposal handed back over to Guild and Treasury

Sudane Erato: but some may wish to pay in US$

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let *them* have the trouble of converting money

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway

Kendra Bancroft: That’s why I say –it’sd just my opinion

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is just a *recommendation*

Kendra Bancroft: and I agree, Gwynn

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀

Kendra Bancroft: It should be the responsabilty of the citizen to pay

in Linden

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Kendra Bancroft: not our treasurer to convert

Kendra Bancroft: it’s far ore transparent that way

Pendari Lorentz: Sudane.. does my summary sound right on this item?

Kendra Bancroft: more

Sudane Erato: no, actually the treasurer must convert most of the funds

to US$..

Sudane Erato: in order to pay the LL fee

Sudane Erato: but…

Kendra Bancroft: yes –but let that be the only issue

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s on the “expenses” side of it

Sudane Erato: its still better the way you suggest

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not on the “income”

Sudane Erato: my only question is “requiring” it

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have no issue with *that* 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if there is any citizen who doesn’t

agree….

Kendra Bancroft: I also think the treasurer –if getting Lindens

payments only would be freer to play with the sliding GOM

Sudane Erato: ok

Kendra Bancroft: and possibly net us some profit

Sudane Erato: hehe

Sudane Erato: well… don’t know about profit

Sudane Erato: but at least

Sudane Erato: less loss

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cover the costs of inflation. yes.

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Summary and Action on this agenda item: RA

involvement not needed. Proposal handed back over to Guild and Treasury

Kendra Bancroft: No reason to not get the most favorable exchange

Sudane Erato: ok

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed as well

Pendari Lorentz: after the RA meeting, we can always discuss this more

as guild people =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any proposals we shuld make to the Guild, or no

influence at all?

Kendra Bancroft: I’ll run the issue through the Guild member voting

sstem

Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.

Sudane Erato: ok, good

Kendra Bancroft: and I’ll open it to all Guild members, not just

meisters

Pendari Lorentz: I really think this is out of the hands of the RA in

all honesty. Since we are not proposing any taxation right now (or

possibly ever)

Sudane Erato: hehe… tax and spend!!

Pendari Lorentz: that would be the only time I could see “money” issues

being an RA concern

Pendari Lorentz: based on the Constitution

Gwyneth Llewelyn: “through a coordinated effort for the wellbeing of

the citizens of Neualtenburg, both the Guild and the RA, in unprecedented

collaboration, wish to inform the citizens that, for the public good,

we have proposed…”

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (from the N’burg Tagesblatt)

Pendari Lorentz: *wink*

Sudane Erato: lol Gwyn!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: LOL Gwyn

Pendari Lorentz: ok.

Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 4

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, next item…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: Now. I will be going to NY for the SLCC

Sudane Erato: yea!!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay!

Kendra Bancroft: ooooooh we must do lunch

Satchmo Prototype: me to 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: but I don’t think I”ll get a full platform to promote

Neualt, though you can bet I’ll be talking about it.. haha

Gwyneth Llewelyn: You too? Oh, great, Satchmo 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: yay Satch! and of course Kendra!! haha

Satchmo Prototype: Yea not the party the night before, I have a wedding

to go to

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe

Satchmo Prototype: but i”ll be at the expo

Kendra Bancroft: I live in Brooklyn –and it will be my RL birthday

Sudane Erato: oh!!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, really Kendra?!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe what a coincidence!

Kendra Bancroft: yep

Satchmo Prototype: sweet Kendra

Sudane Erato: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: well. I won a 1024 plot and Gwyn has a 512 plot where

we can set up information about Neualtenburg

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Kendra Bancroft: word of warning –I don’t really have a snowhite

beehive

Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl

Sudane Erato: lol

Satchmo Prototype: I’m not green either :/

Pendari Lorentz: LOL Kendra

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaah

Sudane Erato: lol

Pendari Lorentz: well.. I’m not 7’4″ either

Pendari Lorentz: *blush*

Sudane Erato: no!!??

Kendra Bancroft: ‘I’m 5’6″ the only thing similar is the glasses

Sudane Erato: I thought you were!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: nothing that one-foot-heels won’t solve, Pen 😉

Pendari Lorentz: hahaha

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So

Kendra Bancroft: Sudane –you always make me nervous bring a stick to

the meetings

Sudane Erato: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: does the RA want to submit a request from the guild

for some creative items to add to these sponsor plots. And also

Sudane Erato: discipline 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 things, actually

Sudane Erato: psk

Pendari Lorentz: I would like to propose a committee that would gather

information about Neualt to put on these plots and get them set up

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) do we wish for more space (I’d say yes)

Kendra Bancroft: whew –now I feel safer

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) can we agree to comission all the work for that to

the Guild, starting ASAP?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, after the Expo, anyway.

Pendari Lorentz: If the guild will “build the decorations” for the

plots, I’m fine with commission going to them

Sudane Erato: time is getting tight

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.

Pendari Lorentz: but yes.. we need this stuff ready fast

Kendra Bancroft: what are we talking about here?

Kendra Bancroft: decorations?

Kendra Bancroft: for?

Kendra Bancroft: I’m a bit out of the loop on this

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hm Pen – did you give Kendra the agenda?

Pendari Lorentz: she did not click on te peguin

Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, briefly, Kendra…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, right, lol

Pendari Lorentz: I just gave her that one notecard for now.. hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, besides the RL part of the convention

Kendra Bancroft: oh okay –so we want a mini Neualtenburg?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is a SL part to it as well

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well

Pendari Lorentz: hmm..

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should think what we put on the SL side of it.

Yes.

Pendari Lorentz: yes

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: gwyn yes

Kendra Bancroft: An architectural model of the city would be fun

Gwyneth Llewelyn: thus, the comittee.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, kendra

Sudane Erato: can you do that quickly!!?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d also like some notecards and links to the

website with the social/political part of N’burg

Kendra Bancroft: How long do I have?

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn

Sudane Erato: Oct 9

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Until October, 8th 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: or 9 right.

Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. the conference is the 8th and 9th

Kendra Bancroft: I could do that –yes

Sudane Erato: great!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: You could just reuse stuff, Kendra.

Pendari Lorentz: would be nice to set it up as soon as the plots are

available

Kendra Bancroft: exactly

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Pen.

Pendari Lorentz: and I’ll be flying to NY on Fri the 7th

Kendra Bancroft: and we already have it mapped out as a gif

Sudane Erato: when will they be available?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a few days before, according to Hiro 😛

Kendra Bancroft: I would just place the image map on the ground and

place stuff

Sudane Erato: oh

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well

Pendari Lorentz: I’ll check on when they will be available and let

everyone know.. exactly.. I heard that as well Gwyn.. a set date would be

ideal if I can squeeze one out of Hiro.. hehe

Kendra Bancroft: a scale model

Gwyneth Llewelyn: The worst part of it is…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “booths” are going to be distributed on the order

of confirmation

Kendra Bancroft: does anyone have a modable versiin of Ulrika’s

fachwerks?

Sudane Erato: I doo

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But chosen by the organisation – not picked by the

people exhibiting stuff

Sudane Erato: but they’re not copyable

Kendra Bancroft: poo

Kendra Bancroft: I’ll make my own

Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So we may not be able to have our plots together

Gwyn?

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Pen

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope we will, yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll talk to Hiro about that.

Pendari Lorentz: maybe you and I could approach Hiro together with our

plan

Pendari Lorentz: ?

Pendari Lorentz: ok =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure he will allow us to join them!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: What remains is that if we just go with the 1512 m2

Gwyneth Llewelyn: or get some more

Kendra Bancroft: Is it 1024 square do we know?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: remains *to be decided

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t, kendra 😛

Sudane Erato: i’m certainlu in favor of more if it can be put to good

use

Pendari Lorentz: I have a 1024 plot.. Gwyn has a 512 plot

Kendra Bancroft: well –whatever it is –I can figure out something

Gwyneth Llewelyn: To be honest, last weekend, Hiro didn’t had any idea

except for the overall layout – 4 sims together (they’ll reuse the

Relay for Life ones), a central “stage”, booths around it in circles

Sudane Erato: hmmm

Kendra Bancroft: It’s a small matter for me to miniaturize things

Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are also the “tiny city” ones…

Kendra Bancroft: I already have all the textures

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. who thinks we may need more space than the

combined 1024 and 512?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose that we buy at least anothr 512

Satchmo Prototype: to be honest I have no idea

Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more a question of principle

Kendra Bancroft: the more space the better

Sudane Erato: I agree

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, space is expensive, Kendra!

Kendra Bancroft: if only for the prims

Sudane Erato: how much $$?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1: 512m – $30 / 8,400L$ 2: 1024m – $55 / 15,300L$ 3:

2048m – $100 / 27,800L$ 4: 2048m, double prim limit – $190 / 52,800L$

Pendari Lorentz: if we can afford it, I can agree to an additional 512

over what we already have

Sudane Erato: I’d say the $55

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, at the very least, we’d be talking about 8400 L$

Sudane Erato: 1024 more

Kendra Bancroft: I think we can make do with 1500

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember, Sudane, the Guild’s work is also to be

paid!

Sudane Erato: sure

Pendari Lorentz: right

Sudane Erato: definitely

Pendari Lorentz: but this can be a *huge* thing for Neualt

Kendra Bancroft: let’ stick with what we have

Pendari Lorentz: this conference is getting a lot of exposure

Kendra Bancroft: don’t worry –I’ll be building to impress

Sudane Erato: hehe

Pendari Lorentz: I would never worry otherwise Kendra

Pendari Lorentz: =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra: I just mention this as a matter of

“principle”. After all, if these guys don’t raise enough cash, we simply won’t

have a Convention next year and the project will be a failure. I wouldn’t

like to say that we had contributed for that by not

Gwyneth Llewelyn: sponsoring anything with L$ oir US$

Kendra Bancroft: it’s getting all the teeny tiny AVs that has me

worried

Sudane Erato: well US$

Satchmo Prototype: I’m up for another 512 to support the convention

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m more than willing to contribute with the extra

US$30, hehe

Satchmo Prototype: but this money comes from where? Neualtenburg cash

reserves?

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So we have a motion for 512 more, a motion for

1024 more, an “I don’t know” and I change my vote to “sure whatever we can

manage!” =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well in theory yes, Satchmo.

Sudane Erato: we have the cash

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Pen 🙂

Sudane Erato: we just don’t have the revenue

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Satch changed to 512

Sudane Erato: if this helps turn that around

Kendra Bancroft: gotta spend to earn, Bucko

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Sudane Erato: yes, exactly

Sudane Erato: thats the risk

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I’ll try to make sure that Hiro puts not only

the name but the website link for Neualtenburg on the SLCC program

Sudane Erato: great

Pendari Lorentz: do we know how many prims are available per size Gwyn?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as at the SLCC site, of course

Satchmo Prototype: are we up for philanthropy from citizens to help

support the convention space?

Sudane Erato: i would think the usual, Pen

Pendari Lorentz: I think that is a great idea Satch

Sudane Erato: m2 x 23%

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Standard prims, Pen. But you have option #4, double

prims, but 2048

Kendra Bancroft: the beauty of a minaiture city –is that we actually

use few prims

Sudane Erato: oh!

Pendari Lorentz: ok

Kendra Bancroft: the buidings have no innards

Kendra Bancroft: it’s all texture work

Sudane Erato: interesting

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So. I’m sorry to be pressing

Pendari Lorentz: so 2 votes for 512.. 1 vote for 1024 more.. I’m not

certain which I vote for.. to me the more the better, but I’m concerned

about cost

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d really like to have a “final agreement”

Kendra Bancroft: and people feel like Godzilla

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll vote for 512

Pendari Lorentz: and I agree with Gwyn on her reasons for wanting to

purchase more =)

Sudane Erato: so I’ll go with 512

Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll be also pestering Hiro with

cross-advertising

Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning, having their kiosk at the Expo

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and squeeze an extra 512 😉

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eventyually

Sudane Erato: ok

Sudane Erato: good

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we’re doing an “ad campaign” for the Expo

Kendra Bancroft: I can make specialty free steins

Gwyneth Llewelyn: we could mention the Convention at our paid-for ad

space

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And squeeze some more space that way, LOL

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we need to estimate the number of visitors at the

Expo 2005 😉

Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is your feeling?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50? 500? 5000?

Sudane Erato: 5000 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5? 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: there is a cap of 160

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5000, ok., One week, so, ~700 people per day?

Pendari Lorentz: oh.. sorry.. you are talking Expo

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: I was still talking about the SLCC

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari, what I meant was…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll say to Hiro: “we expect X visitors at the Expo

’05”

Gwyneth Llewelyn: “based on our previous events, say, Oktoberfest, Xmas

thingy, etc”

Pendari Lorentz: ah yes.. ok.. reverse trade advertising =)

Sudane Erato: sure

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s excatly it!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even “exactly”. lol

Kendra Bancroft: Oktoberfest was huge –and it was only for one day

Pendari Lorentz: true

Kendra Bancroft: The city wound making 10,000L that day

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s very right, Kendra. Any estimates? (it was at

non-Euro-friendly hours, so I missed it all 😛 )

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm

Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s a good one

Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much does the Hat cost?

Pendari Lorentz: ok. Summary and Action for this agenda item: Guild

will work on items for displaying on the sponsor plots. Gwyn and Pen will

get with Hiro about being able to combine plots. And we will buy

additional space as discussed. Gwyneth will be main contact

Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$100?

Kendra Bancroft: we also sold alot of steins

Sudane Erato: good Pen

Sudane Erato: I agree

Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just to estimate people, Kendra – say, 100

people bought things

Kendra Bancroft: I would say 100 is about right

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok

Kendra Bancroft: and people bought on average 5 pieces each

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the Expo, we estimate around 1000 people

Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. we have to make it appleaing for them

to want to trade advertising .. Stats help with that =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll tell Hiro, around 1000 people, each one buying 5

items,

Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is not bad 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: also remember –neualtenburg was only a month old at

that time, and few people had even heard of us

Pendari Lorentz: very true

Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s quite right!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm we just had 1/3 of the current population.

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. You work on those stats with Kendra Gwyn?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, sure 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: we had five citizens

Kendra Bancroft: lol

Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next agenda item: possible State of Play entry for

Neualtenburg

Sudane Erato: great!

Kendra Bancroft: what’s involved with that?

Pendari Lorentz: this entry is actually much more easy it seems

Kendra Bancroft: don’t we need a movie?

Satchmo Prototype: we need a movie or screenshots

Satchmo Prototype: I”m gonna take a shot at making a movie

Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more easy?!

Pendari Lorentz: LOL

Kendra Bancroft: Can I suggest the theme music?

Sudane Erato: hehe

Satchmo Prototype: Ulrika is gonna write the doc about the design of

the city

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m glad you say that 😀

Satchmo Prototype: I’ll coordinate the administrivia

Pendari Lorentz: meaning Gwyn.. it is sort of a do it and submit it..

rather than a “setting up stuff” kinda thing

Satchmo Prototype: and yes, you can suggest the theme music 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: it works well with our message and architecture

Kendra Bancroft: ELP-fanfare for the comon man

Pendari Lorentz: afk for 2 mins.. very sorry! Keep discussing

Satchmo Prototype: so I’ll make a post this afternoon about it as well

Satchmo Prototype: so everyone can have input

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I was rereading it

Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes

Satchmo Prototype: I don’t think any of my other projects are gonna

submit, so no conflict of interest there

Kendra Bancroft: I have such a migraine

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think this will be easy.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm

Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww poor Kendra 😛

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, yes, I fully support this proposal….

Kendra Bancroft: I’m sitting in my apartment with a baseball hat and

sunglasses

Sudane Erato: i agree..!

Satchmo Prototype: easy for us, cause our “Space” is already built

Kendra Bancroft: my mom can make costumes! Let’s put on a show!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I can get Moon Adamant (she’s my roomie and a

RL architect – or at least she studied architecture, rofl) to write

some things on medieval architecture of Germany, although it’s not her

speciality

Gwyneth Llewelyn: although the info on Ulrika’s proposal for last year

is quite good, actually.

Satchmo Prototype: yea Urlrika will be in charge of the doc

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyone has a super-fast computer that gives 50-60 fps

even on the Marktplatz? 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: Nasa?

Satchmo Prototype: heh, I have a decent one

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be needed to grab movies with FRAPS

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Kendra 😀

Satchmo Prototype: although I’d love to rip out the tinies, and all the

casino machines for the filiming 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have *access* to one fast computer, but well…

it’s a battleground of virus in there 😛

Satchmo Prototype: I use a G5 and pipe out the video via firewire to a

mac mini that does the Quicktime encoding

Kendra Bancroft: Ulrika does — if she could just capture random

scenes –I can do all the editing

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s fantastic, Satchmo!

Satchmo Prototype: yea it’s a work setup actually

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Incredible!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well prhaps you could do the capturing, and pass the

clips to Kendra for editing?

Satchmo Prototype: yea that works

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ask Ulrika to do the same

Gwyneth Llewelyn: More footage to work with 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: The editing I can definately handle

Kendra Bancroft: I can frankly do the voiceovers too –I’m a

professional voice actress

Satchmo Prototype: perfect!

Satchmo Prototype: good I wasn’t looking forward to the editting anyway

Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow

Kendra Bancroft: I can adapt the doc to a script

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: fantastic, Kendra!

Pendari Lorentz: back.. very sorry

Sudane Erato: whew! this should be amazing!

Satchmo Prototype: anyway, that’s just gonna be a good video to have

Satchmo Prototype: we can put it up on the web also

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have used that approach for the contest in

the early summer for making a promotional video of SL, hehe

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yeeees Satchmo!!

Satchmo Prototype: as well as stream it in world if the oppurtunity

arises

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed!!!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can offer some space on my streaming video server,

hehe

Kendra Bancroft: Satch do you have an FTP sight I can DL the clips

from?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, “my” is not the correct word

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So Basically, do you want to take charge of this

project Satch and work with Kendra (and anyone else that wishes to

help)?

Satchmo Prototype: yea sounds like a plan

Satchmo Prototype: I’m good at contests

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would love to help, but I’m a terrible amateur at

both video capture & editing, lol

Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s very true, Satchmo 😀

Kendra Bancroft: yeah –I can’t organize this –I’d prefer to take a

second banana position

Pendari Lorentz: I can do some modeling

Pendari Lorentz: *wink*

Gwyneth Llewelyn:

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Sudane Erato: hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: ahh sure 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could set up some events for capturing, yes

Kendra Bancroft: we should ask Garnet to model as well

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, the Expo ’05 will be a good pretext 😀

Satchmo Prototype: yea the expo seems to be a good one 🙂

Sudane Erato: yes!

Kendra Bancroft: she looks so good in my clothing

Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol I agree!!

Sudane Erato: hehe

Sudane Erato: yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm we may even sell the video for LL to promote the

German side of SL – hehe

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Summary and Action: Satch will take charge of this

project and get out all details and needed information

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll trade the rights for, say, a year without fees

😉

Sudane Erato: great Pen

Kendra Bancroft: har har

Gwyneth Llewelyn: agreed Pen 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: but don’t tell the citizens

Kendra Bancroft: mwahahahahahahahahahah

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item #6 and that’s all for today

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Final agenda item. This one will be a hard vote,

so will not be voted on today, but the proposal is on the floor

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course *not* Kendra 🙂 hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok

Kendra Bancroft: I vote no

Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL

Pendari Lorentz: hard vote = umm.. meaning that we have 7 days to vote

on this but the proposal is on the floor (as per the procedures)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, first, we need to know two things…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) how much will building those chalets cost

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) how much are we expecting to get from the rentals

Kendra Bancroft: I expect to rent for 250 a month

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And eventually 3) how long will they be available

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 250

Pendari Lorentz: I guess my main question was… don’t we do this

already?

Pendari Lorentz: *blush*

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, how big each chalet?

Kendra Bancroft: available thru the winter months

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t rent, Pen 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: we don’t??

Sudane Erato: no, we’re not currently renting anything

Kendra Bancroft: but we will be renting vacation homes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Kendra – could we start the rental period just

before Oktoberfest? What do you think?

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. that would explain why those who “work” for the

city are all citizens then

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a good promotion, I think.

Kendra Bancroft: During Oktobrfest

Sudane Erato: yes Pen 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: we will be offering four month leases

Pendari Lorentz: *puts more red ink on Constitution paper for dicussion

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok

Kendra Bancroft: but you can rent by the month

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lol Pen)

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Kendra Bancroft: Sarch –can you make lockable doors by chance?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understand the proposal…

Kendra Bancroft: Satch

Satchmo Prototype: yea I can do that Kendra

Pendari Lorentz: well I love this idea personally…

Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Guild will buy those for free and get a split on

the revenues? (if yes, I agree completely)

Sudane Erato: yes, i think its a great idea

Kendra Bancroft: I envison the chalets to be 50 prims each –with

another 50 prims available for furniture

Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think, Kendra?

Kendra Bancroft: yes –a 50% 50% split with the Guild was what I

envisioned

Sudane Erato: yes

Kendra Bancroft: and I’ll be taking a 10% split from the Guild as

projekt leader

Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Sure 🙂

Sudane Erato: 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And how much will cost the City to have the chalets &

furniture be built?

Kendra Bancroft: what I’d like to set up is a vendor selling “keys”

Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, wow

Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*

Satchmo Prototype: you need the key to unlock a door?

Kendra Bancroft: we’re building semi furnished chalets

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interesting challenge 🙂

Pendari Lorentz: you know.. what about a rental plaque outside each

chalet. Much like many malls and apartments do in SL?

Kendra Bancroft: easier, Pen

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Kendra’s approach is cooler 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: I like it

Pendari Lorentz: lol

Kendra Bancroft: yes –mine is cooler

Satchmo Prototype: I can do the key thing no problem I think

Kendra Bancroft: hahahaha

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀

Pendari Lorentz: I think the two ideas can be combined really =)

Kendra Bancroft: it also requires no management

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, how big a space? i.e. how many chalets total?

Kendra Bancroft: The keys can bet set to de-rez after a month?

Sudane Erato: well, for the 100 prims..

Kendra Bancroft: I need to examine the space

Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh

Sudane Erato: tou need about 400m2

Pendari Lorentz: that was how I wanted to do all the homes in Neualt

back in the beginning.. Pre the deed stuff we have now =)

Sudane Erato: probaly room for 6

Satchmo Prototype: yea, we can talk about the rental method some other

time

Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 😀

Kendra Bancroft: yes, that’s right, Sudane

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, right, 6 houses…

Sudane Erato: approx

Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, hmm

Kendra Bancroft: yes –I think six is a good number

Gwyneth Llewelyn: best income projection: 6 x 4 x 250, ie L$ 6,000

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂

Sudane Erato: well, depends on available space

Pendari Lorentz: will the chalets be pre-furnished?

Kendra Bancroft: and since they will all be duplicates –I only need

build one and then repeat it

Kendra Bancroft: semi furnished

Sudane Erato: yes

Pendari Lorentz: ok

Kendra Bancroft: fireplaces –beds and couches

Kendra Bancroft: –basic stuff

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*

Kendra Bancroft: they can always fill up the rest as they like

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t use the standard Linden fireplace, though, it’s

terribly laggy – lol

Sudane Erato: hehe

Kendra Bancroft: No –I’ve built my own

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah great!

Pendari Lorentz: cool.. I wish every empty “home” in Neualt had at

least that in them.. would make things not look so vacant.. hehe

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes, good point, Pen…

Pendari Lorentz: but that is another issue =)

Pendari Lorentz: eek!

Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is, yes

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although… we might also rent some of the homes

during the same period 😛

Pendari Lorentz: oh! that is pretty Kendra

Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉

Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, wow

Kendra Bancroft: neay huh?

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. If nothing further to add. Summary and Action for

this item: Vote yes or no on this proposal within the next 7 days =)

Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* indeed!

Kendra Bancroft: neat

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, lol

Sudane Erato: yes, great

Satchmo Prototype: adjourned?

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds like it 🙂

Kendra Bancroft: all the chalets will be one story on stilts with a

front porch

Pendari Lorentz: Ok. That is the end of our agenda for today. I’ll put

together the chatlog and summary and get it out to everyone (and onto

the forums). Please submit proposals for the next meeting at any time

before we have the next one =)

Pendari Lorentz: meeting adjourned and thank you all! =)

Sudane Erato: great Pen!!

Kendra Bancroft: 2 bedrooms, a living room and a kitchenette

Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pen 🙂

Sudane Erato: thanks!

Satchmo Prototype: cool, I got two issues I’d like to discuss with

anyone who is intersted in listening

Satchmo Prototype: just want to get peeeps opinions

The meeting closed at 11:55 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 18, 2005

Object-Name: notetaker beta 2
Region: Neualtenburg (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (174, 165, 172)
Meeting on 2005-09-18
Those present:
Pendari Lorentz is in the chair.
Sudane Erato: recorder is on
Pendari Lorentz: Alright.. thank you! =)
Pendari Lorentz: Welcome RA members and fellow citizens =)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: before we begin today’s meeting.. I wanted to issue a
statement based on something I have been witnessing at past RA meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Kendra Bancroft: okay I’ll stop making bitchy jokes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Pendari Lorentz: We are here today to discuss issues that pertain to
the RA. All of us that are in the RA also happen to be in the
Neualtenburg Guild
Pendari Lorentz: there is often a fine line we have to draw between
what is an RA issue, and what is a guild issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pendari Lorentz: to use an example .. I will refer to an item on
today’s agenda.
Kendra Bancroft: Oh just surrender the City to me
Kendra Bancroft: It will all go much smoother
Aliasi Stonebender: well
Aliasi Stonebender: it would certainly give me something to do. the
problem is, we don’t have a convient forest for me to retreat to for
gurilla warfare. *g*
Pendari Lorentz: One of the roles of the RA is to promote the city. If
we feel there is Lag in the city, we need to address the Guild and
request from them ways to deal with the lag. In other words, the RA’s role
is to see the issue and delegate it to the guild. The
Pendari Lorentz: Guild is responsible for the specifics of HOW it will
be done.
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Pendari Lorentz: so the RA meeting would not be used to go over our
ideas of how to handle that lag. We would save those ideas for guild
meetings.
Kendra Bancroft: I have been saying this for months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Pendari Lorentz: I say this only because I want RA members to keep this
in mind as we proceed through our agenda. =)
Pendari Lorentz: Does anyone object to what I have stated? Or need
further clarification?
Kendra Bancroft: Things in the Guild are much smoother now that I have
Ulrika organizing Guild issues
Sudane Erato: I agree with it
Satchmo Prototype: I agree as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely correct 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees as well.
Pendari Lorentz: Welcome Eugene =)
Sudane Erato: welcome Eugene!
Kendra Bancroft: Did everyone in the RA get my e-mails by the way?
Sudane Erato: I did
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I have my Mail program off, Kendra 😛
Pendari Lorentz: Would someone be kind enough to cut and paste into an
IM to Eugene what I just stated.. =)
Pendari Lorentz: it is on the Agenda Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: if you do not yet have an agenda for today. Please
click the Penguin =)
Kendra Bancroft: Oh Eugene? You are on the Schloss comittee now?
fantastic
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Moving on to the first Agenda Item: 1. Proposal
for addition to RA Procedures for Meetings
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: thoughts on this proposal?
Eugene Pomeray: i like the chalet btw 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I think it is well needed
Sudane Erato: the addition makes a lot of sense
Sudane Erato: I think the only snafu will be making the decision which
technique will be used
Pendari Lorentz: Personally.. I think if even one RA member thinks we
need the 7 days on the vote, then we go to the 7 days
Kendra Bancroft: I propose mandatory laughter when I make snide
comments
Sudane Erato: I propose no snide comments
Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. I would have to be unanimous that we
are ready to vote *right then*
Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Kendra Bancroft: 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: that makes sense
Pendari Lorentz: It*
Satchmo Prototype: agreed
Sudane Erato: so, with that addition…
Sudane Erato: we all agree?
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene.. would have to say yes for it to take affect
immediatly =)
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Eugene… he’s probably again on a very bad
connection 🙁
Eugene Pomeray: i agree 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
Pendari Lorentz: excellent!
Pendari Lorentz: *channeled Merwan -*
Eugene Pomeray: the connection is very bad :/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Pendari Lorentz: alright Eugene. I have a feeling our biggest votes of
the day will be moved to 7 days. So hopefully you will not lose any
input =)
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item One: Proposal approved. Moving on to next
Agenda item if no further comments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go on 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, go on
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 2. Vote on Rental Chalets during Holiday
Season Proposal (was proposed last RA Meeting)
Pendari Lorentz: We sort of forgot to vote on this the past week .. My
fault more than anyones
Sudane Erato: I will make the point that outside thw walls land is
going very fast
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I miss the dates and duration of the rentals,
but I still agree on them on principle.
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Eugene Pomeray: yes me too
Sudane Erato: the proposed lots are still available
Sudane Erato: but if there is pressure… that people want to buy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Sudane Erato: what should we do?
Eugene Pomeray: in addition to the chalet we should add few things as
well
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like to know as soon as possible –because if it
is not possible in Neualtenburg, I will do this rental chalet thingie in
Isenland instead
Pendari Lorentz: Yes. We actually had a person interested in deeding
that land yesterday (a visitor of the expo).. so the question came up. Do
we say yes to the Rental Chalets proposal, but perhaps understand that
it may need to be in a different location?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes on that.
Sudane Erato: there are only I think 4 outside lots left
Sudane Erato: the different location may then not be Neualt
Kendra Bancroft: I only require 4 512 plots
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra.. has the guild given thought to building up?
Pendari Lorentz: meaning perhaps, adding a ramp to what looks like a
hill.. that sits above land already owned by the guild
Kendra Bancroft: building up?
Pendari Lorentz: that could be used for the Chalets?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … only 4 left? wow….
Pendari Lorentz: to do a nice setting for the Chalets
Eugene Pomeray: the land right below the walls could be used as chalet
area
Kendra Bancroft: The Gild owns no land
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, the outside is filling up quick.
Pendari Lorentz: that was the original spot requested Eugene.. But that
was also the spot someoen asked about getting deeded
Sudane Erato: the land right below the walls are lots 290 and 300
Eugene Pomeray: ah
Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. yes.. You are right Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: and my ideas are more a guild issue
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. RA members. Let the guild work out the details on
how and where. But do we as the RA approve this Proposal otherwise?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: dates!
Sudane Erato: I would say approve it in such a way that land sales
comes first
Eugene Pomeray: i say yes 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Pendari Lorentz: I agree Sudane
Sudane Erato: if land is available then ok
Kendra Bancroft: How we can do –where is up to the RA
Kendra Bancroft: and yes –sales are priority always
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry to repeat myself… hehe
Sudane Erato: so, how can it be worded so sales are a priority?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need somehow to set dates, and periods
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Then I propose that the RA accepts the proposal of
“What will be done”, and over the next 7 days come up with our
“conditions” for the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I can agree on that 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although not much is to be discussed…
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. true.
Kendra Bancroft: I am proposing a 4 month lease o November thru March
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can do weekly rentals… so the worse case
scenario is having someone who has to wait one week for a sale.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noted, Kendra!
Pendari Lorentz: but it will probably be easier for us all if we can
put our thoughts down in an email
Sudane Erato: no, gwyn, cause the rental lots may not coincide with the
for sale lots
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: yes… the email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there is no overlap, ok
Pendari Lorentz: that would be part of the “conditions” we would work
on for the guild Gwyneth =)
Satchmo Prototype: what would the price of the rentals be?
Satchmo Prototype: compared to lost revenue on land rent?
Kendra Bancroft: I am thinking of 500 Lindens a month
Pendari Lorentz: I beleive last meeting it was stated $250L per month?
Pendari Lorentz: ahh.. oh! the 50/50 split is what I forgot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: inflation 🙂 hehe
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. so $500L per month.. split between Guild and
city
Kendra Bancroft: No –I didn’t build the split into my suggestion last
week
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: with Gildemeister receiving 10% of the Guild income
for the duration
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Kendra Bancroft: So I would get 25 indens a month

::droool

::::
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Pendari Lorentz: hey.. it adds up! =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: heh maybe we can put it up on the MoCA hill if it’s
not build yet 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. Action on this Agenda item: RA likes the proposal
of the Rental Chalets, but would like a 7 day period to discuss
“conditions” that we think will be needed for the city.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not bad idea… 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The whole point of a acation chalet is to be outside
the city
Sudane Erato: good Pen
Satchmo Prototype: heh good point Kendra 😉
Pendari Lorentz: If no objections to that Action. We will move on to
the next Agenda Item
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: as you can see by the roof –it’s designed for winter
Eugene Pomeray: can i add something to the agenda?
Pendari Lorentz: Is it an item that relates to something already on the
Agenda Eugene?
Sudane Erato: otherwise it must be given to Pen before
Kendra Bancroft: The chalets will be identical in form –but not
texture –four models –the eagle, dragon, swan and penguin
Kendra Bancroft: I mean chicken
Pendari Lorentz: If not, we can vote to include it today, or have it
wait till next week. As
Eugene Pomeray: ok
Pendari Lorentz: per the RA procedures (and I know you have been having
computer issues.. so I’m flexible if others are) =)
Kendra Bancroft: On the floor right now is the Eagle
Tai Tuppakaka: Chicken? Hehe.
Kendra Bancroft: Chicken is our national bird
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 🙂
Sudane Erato: could we keep to the topic of the agneda?
Eugene Pomeray: sure
Pendari Lorentz: While Eugene types his request.. Lets move on to the
next Agenda item
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just giving data to inform the vote –I thot I was
on agenda
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 3. Proposal to request from Guild a list
of ways they are going to improve upon the current City Lag situation.
Guild would need to include in their list any items that may need RA
approval (ie Builds the RA has in the past deemed “Needed fo
Kendra Bancroft: my apologies
Pendari Lorentz: r the City”)
Eugene Pomeray: well, i think we could discuss business in Neualtenburg
Pendari Lorentz: Oh my.. haha.. Eugene. Let’s put that on the next
agenda =)
Eugene Pomeray: like business area or street
Eugene Pomeray: ok sure
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: Lag
Pendari Lorentz: because I do think it is something we should talk
about.. but would be better if we could get our thoughts together before
hand.. So proposal noted for next agenda! =)
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Sudane Erato: ok
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. Lag. Current issue. Proposal to have Guild list
ways they are going to improve on this issue.
Pendari Lorentz: thoughts?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, basically, what I see is that all the work is
going to be dropped unto the Guild 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) See what causes lag
Pendari Lorentz: hahaha
Satchmo Prototype: vote today
Sudane Erato: this is a reqyuest to the guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Give us a suggestion on how to improve it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: While we patiently wait.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, since the EXPO has started…
Pendari Lorentz: Honestly. Yes. Though. I believe we as the RA can
refuse to pay the guild if they do not adhere to the standards we agreed on
=)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either we decide some of those lag-reducing issues
today – or we need an extraordinary meeting during the weekend.
Pendari Lorentz: But in the end. It is the Guild that sets the
standards we approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I meant during the weekDAYS, sorry)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m just making my point 🙂 hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Feel free to disagree;)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I think this should be revisited at the end of the
agenda
Satchmo Prototype: because moving the tiny and casino could go a long
way
Satchmo Prototype: adn those are the next issues
Pendari Lorentz: It is NOT the RA’s job to deal with the creative side
of the city. That is for our Guild. We can only tell them things are
hurting the city, and ask them to fix it
Satchmo Prototype: then just general community awareness
Satchmo Prototype: not all citizens are guild members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Pendari Lorentz: if they refuse. Then we have other actions we can take
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Pendari Lorentz: No they are not Satch. But. The Guild sets the
standards for what is acceptable. The RA can dispute those standards and have
the Guild re-submit their plans
Satchmo Prototype: I see
Kendra Bancroft: Well let us know, I am appointing the lag job to Satch
Pendari Lorentz: This is where I was explaining that there is a fine
line between our Guild roles and RA roles =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, in any case the proposal is just to ask the Guild
to look into the issue 🙂 I think that at least we can vote on that.
Satchmo Prototype: sure
Pendari Lorentz: if I were speaking as a Guild member. I would say this
issue is our top priority and we need to start TODAY doing everything
we can to fix this issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly vote “aye” on that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And aye on that as well, although I had to switch
hats 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait – I can’t vote on the Guild, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: But as an RA member. This is an RA meeting. And we
have other issues to determine.
Sudane Erato: so what is the action?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, anyone is AGAINST the proposal to let the Guild
do whatever they can and as fast as they can to reduce lag? 😉
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. not me!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: I think thats fine… probably
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous vote on that? 😉
Satchmo Prototype: I vote yes on that
Pendari Lorentz: the Action for this item. Vote: are we ready to vote
today that we want the Guild putting this as top priority for the city?
Sudane Erato: unless they set up armed roadblocks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes; yes; and yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Pendari Lorentz: if not ready to vote today. We move it to 7 days
discussion then vote
Sudane Erato: and restrict the rights of citizens
Sudane Erato: I’ll agree
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: That’s Bond’s department –she wants to be Polizei
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, no sense in postponing the vote.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Satchmo Prototype: yes, yes
Kendra Bancroft: It’s on you then, Satch –if you accept the job
Satchmo Prototype: yea sure things (says with guild hat on)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. Vote for this Proposal. Gildemeister Kendra
is asked to present the RA with a list of ways the Guild is currently
working on to improve the lag situation. The RA holds this issue as a top
priority for the guild right now, and would like to see
Satchmo Prototype: now, first thing I do is take Sudanes suggestion and
set up armed roadblocks
Pendari Lorentz: immediate action on improving the Lag situation in the
city and valley if needed
Sudane Erato: agreed
Sudane Erato: without the roadfblocks
Gwyneth Llewelyn is thinking of starting an impeachment against Sudane
for proposing roadblocks and suggesting civil unrest 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I dismiss my impeachment suggestion then 😉
Sudane Erato: no//.. you got me wrong
Aliasi Stonebender: (ppst. Satchmo, we all fly here. BLOCK THESKIES!)
Pendari Lorentz: Stach.. Eugene?
Kendra Bancroft: Satch, that report better beon my desk by Monday
Morning –ya get me?
Pendari Lorentz: Satch too
Pendari Lorentz: all RA agree to that action?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: saying “yes, m’am” would be appropriate 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I agree
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Adn yes, Pendari, we all agree 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Eugene Pomeray: yes i do
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. Moving on to next Agenda Item =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew.
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: 4. Proposal to ask Guild to Take over Tiny City and
move it out of the Platz. Would require a submitted Proposal by the Guild
on their plans for the Tiny City and whether or not they would make it
a “private” guild build, or request funding from the city
Pendari Lorentz: 4. Proposal to ask Guild to Take over Tiny City and
move it out of the Platz. Would require a submitted Proposal by the Guild
on their plans for the Tiny City and whether or not they would make it
a “private” guild build, or request funding from the city
Pendari Lorentz: in any form.
Pendari Lorentz: sorry double paste *blush*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: That’s already determined by the lag issue is it not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No worries, Pen, we may even forgive you that there
are two #4 items on the agenda and all 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: ROFL Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually they are two different things.
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As well as the Casino issue on point 4B 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The Tinys HAVE to be moved –the RA must vote on to
where? And who will fund this projekt?
Eugene Pomeray: do we really need the tinys city?
Pendari Lorentz: Well.. It becomes an RA proposal because if we feel
the Tiny City is bringing money into the city. We may just want it
revamped rather than taken away.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Funding is either the RA’s job if the City will
sponsor it – or, as pen suggested, giving the Tiny Village over to the Guild
Sudane Erato: so store the tinies… that solves the lag issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to agree with Sudane.
Pendari Lorentz: and yes. Should it be deemed NEEDED by the city. Or do
we want to say no funding and let a private citizen take it over
Satchmo Prototype: I’m with you Eugene
Sudane Erato: then it can be dtermined if they are rebuilt
Sudane Erato: and who pays
Satchmo Prototype: I’d rather forget about the tinie’s
Satchmo Prototype: that should be its own sim
Sudane Erato: me too!!
Kendra Bancroft: What the Guild proposes is simply subdividing a bunch
of lots –and let the Guild build a Tiny Zoned village
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: The RA would be responsible for selling mini-property
Kendra Bancroft: in the same way they already sell propert
Eugene Pomeray: i think the outside will get too croweded then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, suggestion then… let the Guild remove the
Tiny City, keep it “on hold”, and suggest to us what they would like to do
with it. Or, if they don’t want to explore it, we could open it up to
the public.
Sudane Erato: yes Gwyn
Sudane Erato: I agree
Pendari Lorentz: I like that idea Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like Kendra’s plan.
Satchmo Prototype: me too
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t even want to think about a Tiny village till
we start Xmas
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok!
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: The idea is to create a small Gingerbread Neualteburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree then – let’s remove it, and re-discuss it
around Christmas.
Kendra Bancroft: and sell plots in it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hm Kendra 😉
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. a tiny city that comes and goes only with
special events!
Pendari Lorentz: ack! that’s guild talking
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: see! I’m bad too :-p
Kendra Bancroft: TinYs? should be a Christmas happening
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
Kendra Bancroft: and they should go away with Santa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree that it should be removed out of the
Marktplatz immediately?
Satchmo Prototype: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn prepares the bulldozer
Sudane Erato: yes.. agreed
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I propose the Expo grounds be the Xmas Tiny Village
Sudane Erato: use blasts
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Action Vote for this proposal: Have the Tiny City
removed. Have the Guild submit ideas for future use of the Tiny City.
Including if it will need to be funded by the Neualtenburg City or by a
private citizen. How votes the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that.
Sudane Erato: the Expo grounds below to Eugene
Satchmo Prototype: YES
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Sudane
Kendra Bancroft: Eugene is also the main go to guy for Tinys to begin
with
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. This moves us on to the next Agenda Item. 4b as
the witty smartpooties put it earlier :-p
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Pendari Lorentz: 4. Proposal to allow the Casino to be taken over by a
Private Group. Discussion should inlude concerns of Lag that some
citizens have expressed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Pendari Lorentz: make sure you read the notecard under this proposal
Satchmo Prototype: I thnk most people agree the government shouldn’t be
in the casino buisness yes?
Satchmo Prototype: we just can’t do a good job at it
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: it should not be
Eugene Pomeray: very true
Kendra Bancroft: I believe Citizen Tai has some Casino concerns he may
wih to discuss , I for one would like to hear them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm the SDF does not agree entirely 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But as I said before, I won’t oppose the move to a
private group.
Pendari Lorentz: My only concern would be if the Casino was actually
making the city money . If not. Then the city stands to make more money
letting a private citizen deed the land and drawn in visitors
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m keeping all the options open.
Sudane Erato: the casino does not make money
Kendra Bancroft: But what if it did?
Satchmo Prototype: currently it doesn’t make money or dwell
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: If I may interject, I occasionally drop a few
lindens in there… and I think I’m the only one who ever does.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No money at all?
Eugene Pomeray: we couyld make it into an information center 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: *could
Pendari Lorentz: Yes. We need to decide. Is the Casino a Needed city
build?
Sudane Erato: if it did, it would be because of individual initiative
Pendari Lorentz: or just an attraction
Kendra Bancroft: May I?
Sudane Erato: the casino funds go to Uma… where I cannot decipher
them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, that’s another different issue, Sudane.
Pendari Lorentz: yes Kendra please
Sudane Erato: Uma yields perhaps 2 – 4 thousand per month
Kendra Bancroft: Currently the biergarten and the Casino are useless to
us
Kendra Bancroft: a big waste of property
Eugene Pomeray: i would like to keep the biergarten
Tai Tuppakaka: So would I
Eugene Pomeray: it is one of Neualtenburg’s oldest buildings
Eugene Pomeray: it should we deemed landmark 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I truly believe an upscale restaurant combined with a
posh European style Casini would be a huge draw
Pendari Lorentz: so very sorry.. I have history open.. RL milk spill
freak out.. brb!!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops poor Pendari….
Kendra Bancroft: The biergarten would remain essentially the same
–just re-decorated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I was checking the statistics at the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, the Casino is worthless 🙁
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: It is lovely I don’t think it should change much –but
I beleive it can serve a dual purpose
Kendra Bancroft: I imagine Monte Carlo with an outdoor bistro
Aliasi Stonebender: well, in my opinion, while there’sa neat historical
perspective to the current casino, that also means the games are boring
and suck, to put it bluntly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at least I hope you can fix the textures
blinking inside….
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: agreed, Aliasi
Tai Tuppakaka: How are measuring worth? Purely in terms of revenue? How
about in terms of ambience or civic contribution? Casino’s are base. No
matter how you dress them up. People aren’t going to come just because
it has a Monaco feel.
Kendra Bancroft: I just feel that the biergarten needs an upgrade –and
the Casino needs to be part of that upgrade
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I am measuring it in ambiance
Aliasi Stonebender: And I disagree that a casino must necessarily be
base and crass.
Sudane Erato: I measure only in revenue 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the truth is – we don’t need a Casino to make
us money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By that I mean that the City has not run it
successfully 🙁
Sudane Erato: right
Tai Tuppakaka: I’m new, and I really don’t have a voice here, but I am
concerned about living next door to a casino, of any kind. And I just
want to state that for the record.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I agree that the City is worthless at running
Casinos, lol
Kendra Bancroft: The Casino I envision is more of a retaurant with card
games
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Tai.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl 1.7 will allow us to have “hidden” card games
Satchmo Prototype: Tai you have say… you vote for the RA next term
Satchmo Prototype: 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: back.. so very sorry
Pendari Lorentz: let me give my thoughts quickly on this proposal
Aliasi Stonebender: indeed. a good, REAL poker game I’d be interested
in, come 1.7. Poker’s more a game of skill than gambling in the long
run.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Aliasi
Satchmo Prototype: that’s what digi and I are currently working on 🙂
1.7 games
Eugene Pomeray: very sorry, everone i must go
Kendra Bancroft: I’d also like to see a blackjack table
Kendra Bancroft: all very James Bond
Eugene Pomeray: *everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a Mah Jongg table as well 😉
Satchmo Prototype: but if enough people think Neualt is better off
without a Casino, no worries we’ll use them somewhere else
Sudane Erato: bye Euegene
Eugene Pomeray: bye
Pendari Lorentz: I think if the current Casino is not making money for
the city. Then we stand to do better letting a private citizen run
their own casino. However, it should be funded and profits should only go
to the group that takes on this project
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll hire ya for Isenland in a split second, Satch 😉
Sudane Erato: yes Pen, I agree
Pendari Lorentz: I think the city will make MORE money this way than we
do currently.
Sudane Erato: yes
Satchmo Prototype: so Pend, you think the private organization should
just pay rent?
Sudane Erato: I would prefer the private organization pay the monthly
fee
Pendari Lorentz: I think out of respect for Urusula, she should be
contacted to take a copy of her build if she so desires. However, as per
the consititution, we have the right to say that build belongs to the
city. If the casino is to be moved into the Beer Garten that
Tai Tuppakaka: I’m not against gambling. I play games occassionally. I
just would rather not have it next door to me. I don’t want the
traffic. I don’t want to hear the games. And I think Neualtenburg can do
better for draw.
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a possibility –and the Guild could give
landmark status to the Biergarten to ensure it doesn’t get tacky
Pendari Lorentz: Yes Sudane. I think the private citizen should have to
deed the land. Pay rent on it. And keep their profits.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another possibility, of course, is to outlaw gambling
😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: well, tai, the way I see it, is the ultimate deal
here is neither the casino nor beirgarten are doign us anygood.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just mentioned that because something worse than a
Casino, is a Casino that is worthless 😛
Pendari Lorentz: however. I think if the Casino is to remain inside the
city walls. The guild should be required to keep tabs on the impact it
has to the city
Aliasi Stonebender: we need to do SOMETHING with both.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Currently, I’m basically against “public buildings”
without purpose 😛
Tai Tuppakaka: To say the biergarten is doing no good I don’t
understand.
Tai Tuppakaka: It’s a wonderful place
Kendra Bancroft: Tai –you are always free to join the Guild in that
case –so you have a vote on The appearance of the structure
Sudane Erato: I’m *always* against public buildings with no purpose
Pendari Lorentz: and if we feel the Casino is not doing well for the
city. We should propose that the guild look into the issue of either
moving it, or making the owner revamp the casino so as not to interfere
with the stability of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, tai – the point is, it’s just “decoration” now,
although it was used during 6 months or so as a meeting place 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Pleasure is a purpose.
Pendari Lorentz: this goes back to the guild haveing to be the one to
set the standards for builds inside the city =)
Aliasi Stonebender: move one into the other, encourage more event use
of the garten, bulldoze it all and make a 10 meter statue of Ulrika, we
need to do something with it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is always an argument, yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: no statues 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild would not allow for the Biergarten to change
fundementally
Satchmo Prototype: again, we could vote to remove the casino currently
with plans to be determined in the future
Aliasi Stonebender: While I agree with you Tai, wholeheartedly…
certainly, I’m not always out for profit, the fact is: We must pay our
bills, period.
Kendra Bancroft: only improve it’s already pretty ambiance
Satchmo Prototype: which I suspect will be the last we hear of a Casino
in Neualt
Sudane Erato: we should vote on 2 things
Pendari Lorentz: my personal opinion… as a citizen of Neualt. Is that
Satch will do an excellent job with this project
Sudane Erato: casino to be run by Satchmo
Sudane Erato: and location of casino
Sudane Erato: raelly 2 issues
Tai Tuppakaka: How much does the city need?
Pendari Lorentz: The Gildemeister and head of the SC have already given
their approval
Satchmo Prototype: we need to cover tier
Tai Tuppakaka: How much do I need to pay to keep the casino out?
Pendari Lorentz: as per the notecard
Satchmo Prototype: $195 USD per month
Tai Tuppakaka: You can’t tell me the casino brings that much in.
Satchmo Prototype: no, I”m saying that’s what hte city owes each month
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. Tai. The guild would be required to insure that
the casino establishment did not interfere with the workings of the
city . That means lag and other issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Casino doesn’t bring anything worthwhile per
month…
Sudane Erato: now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it used to.
Pendari Lorentz: Or else the RA could step in and find that it was
hurting the city.
Tai Tuppakaka: Ok. I’ve said my peace. You are the representatives. You
vote.
Kendra Bancroft: The Casino fails because it’s fugly and laggy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well.
Aliasi Stonebender: agreed on both counts, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s hard to say.
Pendari Lorentz: I do not think if someone is given the right to make
the casino successful. And to do so with the guild rules in place. That
they should then be made to give the city money.
Kendra Bancroft: The biergarten fails because tho’ pretty there is
nothing to do once you are there
Pendari Lorentz: Not until the RA decides to start taxing =)
Kendra Bancroft: This solves both problems in my view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Kendra – that, at least, I fully agree 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: hm. obviously, this isn’t goign to be applicable
THIS meeting…. but I just had an idea.
Sudane Erato: ?
Aliasi Stonebender: rather than necessarily having CASINO games.
Aliasi Stonebender: would it be possible to simple have some kind of
amusement of some sort?
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps charge per play, thus insuring money.
Pendari Lorentz: That falls into another realm for the guild though
Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve got somethign similar over in Eldora… and
yes
Kendra Bancroft: stroll around “Altenburg”, Tai –and then tell me
whether or not you have faith in my ability to keep the Biergarten a pretty
build
Sudane Erato: I say let Satchmo run the instituion as he sees fit
Pendari Lorentz: so really.. this proposal becomes a two part issue for
the RA
Sudane Erato: for maximum revenue
Sudane Erato: yes pen
Aliasi Stonebender: While I agree with you Tai, wholeheartedly…
certainly, I’m not always out for profit, the fact is: We must pay our
bills, period.
Kendra Bancroft: only improve it’s already pretty ambiance
Satchmo Prototype: which I suspect will be the last we hear of a Casino
in Neualt
Sudane Erato: we should vote on 2 things
Pendari Lorentz: my personal opinion… as a citizen of Neualt. Is that
Satch will do an excellent job with this project
Sudane Erato: casino to be run by Satchmo
Sudane Erato: and location of casino
Sudane Erato: raelly 2 issues
Tai Tuppakaka: How much does the city need?
Pendari Lorentz: The Gildemeister and head of the SC have already given
their approval
Satchmo Prototype: we need to cover tier
Tai Tuppakaka: How much do I need to pay to keep the casino out?
Pendari Lorentz: as per the notecard
Satchmo Prototype: $195 USD per month
Tai Tuppakaka: You can’t tell me the casino brings that much in.
Satchmo Prototype: no, I”m saying that’s what hte city owes each month
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. Tai. The guild would be required to insure that
the casino establishment did not interfere with the workings of the
city . That means lag and other issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Casino doesn’t bring anything worthwhile per
month…
Sudane Erato: now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it used to.
Pendari Lorentz: Or else the RA could step in and find that it was
hurting the city.
Tai Tuppakaka: Ok. I’ve said my peace. You are the representatives. You
vote.
Kendra Bancroft: The Casino fails because it’s fugly and laggy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well.
Aliasi Stonebender: agreed on both counts, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s hard to say.
Pendari Lorentz: I do not think if someone is given the right to make
the casino successful. And to do so with the guild rules in place. That
they should then be made to give the city money.
Kendra Bancroft: The biergarten fails because tho’ pretty there is
nothing to do once you are there
Pendari Lorentz: Not until the RA decides to start taxing =)
Kendra Bancroft: This solves both problems in my view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Kendra – that, at least, I fully agree 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: hm. obviously, this isn’t goign to be applicable
THIS meeting…. but I just had an idea.
Sudane Erato: ?
Aliasi Stonebender: rather than necessarily having CASINO games.
Aliasi Stonebender: would it be possible to simple have some kind of
amusement of some sort?
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps charge per play, thus insuring money.
Pendari Lorentz: That falls into another realm for the guild though
Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve got somethign similar over in Eldora… and
yes
Kendra Bancroft: stroll around “Altenburg”, Tai –and then tell me
whether or not you have faith in my ability to keep the Biergarten a pretty
build
Sudane Erato: I say let Satchmo run the instituion as he sees fit
Pendari Lorentz: so really.. this proposal becomes a two part issue for
the RA
Sudane Erato: for maximum revenue
Sudane Erato: yes pen
part one: (via Pendari Lorentz) Do we allow the casino to be taken down and
taken over by a private party?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: and two… where?
part two: (via Pendari Lorentz) do we allow the beer garten to be used for
this project.
Kendra Bancroft: please keep in mind that The Guild has proposed
building the new Rathaus where the casino now stands
Sudane Erato: or, if not where else?
Pendari Lorentz: and actually part three: should that private group
have to deed the land and keep profits, or be made to work for the city
and share profits
Pendari Lorentz: RA. Those three points are ours
Sudane Erato: Pen, its more complex than that
Sudane Erato: the private party could pay a share of profits for the
city
Pendari Lorentz: I’m listening =)
Sudane Erato: in excahne for having the deed
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild feels that the proposed design for the
Rathaus works best where the current Casino is –sistuated as it is between
the Schloss and the Platz
Sudane Erato: it would be a special covenant
Sudane Erato: like the covenants we all ahve
Sudane Erato: but specialized to the casino
Pendari Lorentz: as a member of the MPP, I encourge private citizens to
have free reign (within the guild standards and our constitution) to
make their business successful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is having private citizens having free
reign
Kendra Bancroft: Is not it the Guild’s responsability to keep the
integrity of the Biergarten build>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly cannot disagree with that 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Which for my money could be made lovlier –Casino or
nO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing, though, is having the city
“encourage” certain types of business activities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if the City, at the end of the day, is going to
profit from it.
Sudane Erato: what do we mean by encourage?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having a special covenant, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me give you a silly example
Pendari Lorentz: No. But it is the Guild’s repsonisbility to set the
standards for what is allowed in the city as far as “look, feel, and
usability”. The RA can dispute that though Kendra (and I know we are still
all working on getting that list together). I pull it up
Sudane Erato: that is only to preserve the interest of the City
Pendari Lorentz: as this is really the first case where it becomes a
true issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suppose I propose to the city to do a deal with my
tiny shop.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In exchange for more prims, I’ll let the City have
half of my income there.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I would be requesting a “special covenant” for
myself.
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Kendra Bancroft: The RA doesn’t have aan aesthetic vote
Sudane Erato: interesting idea 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most of you would say “get lost gwyn” 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: only a zoning vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’d be right 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra. Though if we feel something is hurting
the city. We have a right to withdraw funding to the guild if we do not
feel they are insisting appropriate standards =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is actually a turning point in our political
governance 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: true –but don’t pretend to dictate aesthetic taste to
the Guild –that’s just icky
Pendari Lorentz: actually Gwyn.. an example of that came up in our
first RA meeting..
Sudane Erato: well, Gwyn, i dont think so
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. icky it is Kendra. I have faith in the guild
though =)
Sudane Erato: I think this is allowing maximum individual initiative
Sudane Erato: while preserving the interests of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “allowing” is one thing, “actively encouraging” is
another 😉
Kendra Bancroft: If any business in N’burg should be privatized –I
think even the SDF would agree it’s a casino
Pendari Lorentz: I’m only stating the “rights’ of the RA. Not what we
would actually decide to do :-p
Sudane Erato: the city could easily decide that your proposal was not
in its interest
Pendari Lorentz: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Satchmo, just as a personal side-note, I have
absolutely nothing against having you dealing with the Casino 😉 – and now
back to our political arguments, hehe)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, it’s a question of principle.
Sudane Erato: I am very in favor of Satchmo taking that role
Pendari Lorentz: if we give this over to a private resident. We could
be assured that it would live up to guild standards for builds within
the city. And we know that someone would be working to bring attraction
to the city. As well as making money for the city from the
Pendari Lorentz: deeded land
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: Let me make clear –the Guild still has interest in
the Biergarten as a money maker –at the very least the textures need to
be redone and you should actually be able to buy food and beverages
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, cleverly worded, Pen 🙂
Sudane Erato: and we would write a covenant
Sudane Erato: to preserve that interest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try again – I have nothing against having the

Guild* running the Casino.

Pendari Lorentz: Kendra. Would the guild standard on Casinos be that
they must have a “pub type” balcony outside?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and, of course, the guild can outsource it to
Satchmo 😉 )
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. that’s ONE workaround :-p
Kendra Bancroft: Only if it were the Biergarten
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Pen 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: well the current private business that is interested
in running the casino
Satchmo Prototype: would hire hte guild to build everything
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: there is no natural reason why the Guild must “run” the
casino
Kendra Bancroft: The dynamic of the Biergarten’s outside Bistro would
remain unchanged
Sudane Erato: they are not here to run things
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point is, Satchmo, if it’s a Guild business, or a
private business 😉
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is not interested in running a Casino
Sudane Erato: there are here to build and administer
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shhh kendra
Kendra Bancroft: only in protecting it’s appearance
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there goes my plan 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Satchmo Prototype: I really think it should just be a city business,
and the city hires a management company to run it
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case – I have to vote against the
principle
Satchmo Prototype: heh but I’m flexible to other arrangments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Satchmo Prototype: unless it leads to me getting screwed as a
businessman
Satchmo Prototype: cause then I’ll take my business over to Hanover
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t worry, Satchmo, there will be enough votes 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean enough votes in favour 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. The RA can vote that for historic reasons. Part of
the Beer Garten must be presevered. We can ceed to the Gildemeister’s
wishes that a part of the “pub aspect remain” (namely the balcony area).
And add that as a requirement to the Private Citizen
Pendari Lorentz: taking over a “current city build”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, you see, this is one clear case for me…
Sudane Erato: Pen, I think we ahould refer this to a 7 days vote
Satchmo Prototype: this sounds like a 7 day vote to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Casino was always a “City operation”
Pendari Lorentz: I agree =)
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Satchmo Prototype: though I think we should vote to scrap the current
Casino as is
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA has (and should have) the choice to give it
over to the Guild (which is also “Government”)
Satchmo Prototype: immediately
Satchmo Prototype: since the guild is going to recommend you do that
for lag purposes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the Guild doesn’t want it.
Satchmo Prototype: the milisecond after we ajourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s another thing, yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: All RA in favore of having the current Casino
“stored”. Vote yes or no now.. or lend it to 7 day vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on 4B, I vote “no”, on the grounds that it is a
City Business, and the Guild doesn’t want to run it.
Sudane Erato: 7 days
Pendari Lorentz: stored meaning taken down :-p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On #5 I vote yes (lag issue and removal of the casino
to another place)
Pendari Lorentz: ok. We wait 7 days before we allow the current city
casino to be touched. So that the RA can discuss its removal
Sudane Erato: the guild ha sthe authority to take it down
Satchmo Prototype: I vote for yes immediate vote to have the current
Casino “stored”
Satchmo Prototype: kk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree on Satchmo
Sudane Erato: for lag raesons
Satchmo Prototype: the GUild has the authority to shut down a city
business?
Satchmo Prototype: ah I see
Pendari Lorentz: I would vote yes have it stored
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also vote yes on point 5 – removing the Casino
immediately, and not wait another 7 days for a vote.
Sudane Erato: ok… yes
Pendari Lorentz: are you sure Sudane?
Sudane Erato: 🙂 ty
Satchmo Prototype: yes, immediate removal before the guild is forced to
shut down a city business
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Just thinking a bit about it, but yes, the
Guild is certainly entitled to do that.
Satchmo Prototype: truthfully the Casino isn’t the lagger I make it out
ot be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since it’s *still* a City business 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Casino may be removed (stored) by the guild. The
RA has the next seven days to discuss the private ownership of a casino
within the city
Satchmo Prototype: but it certainly doesn’t help
Satchmo Prototype: adn the marketplatz needs all the help it can get
Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s still pretty fugly though.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Pendari Lorentz: if no objections. We move forward to next agenda item
Satchmo Prototype: yea and it’s really fugly
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on that, Pen. No objections 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. ok. Next item was covered in last item
Pendari Lorentz: so.. moving on to the NEXT NEXT item on the Agenda =)
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item 5B 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: 5. Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda B) Question – Where to
publish/announce the events during the EXPO?
Sudane Erato: 5A is fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on item 5B – A) (this numbering is giving me a
headache), I think it’s a pretty good idea, so I agree with it.
Pendari Lorentz: We can vote to take out this part on the log and
PUBLIC FORUM listing due to promotional reasons for the city.
Sudane Erato: ??
Gwyneth Llewelyn is confused as well – lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, like we had two items #4, we have two items

5 😉

Pendari Lorentz: oh.. haha
Sudane Erato: lol
Pendari Lorentz: the fact that this was proposed as something not to
announce to the public
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Sudane Erato: its the substance… not the nimbers 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: we could have it striken from the record as long as no
objection from the SC =)
Sudane Erato: numbers are relative 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is to try to keep expectations high…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And thus, be very hush-hush about the Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda
Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda
Sudane Erato: and that proposal is fine
Sudane Erato: it is question 5B??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, marketing reasons 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: but what a scandal it would be if the SC denied us!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Pendari Lorentz: I’m fine with Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda! As for listing the
events. I found I was able to choose an “EXPO” spot in my drop down
list. Perhaps the Estate Owner could work with individual event hosts to
make some properties show up in the list (there ARE limitati
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that would still attract people 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: itations.. even to the estate owner that should be
known though)
Sudane Erato: Gwyn had studied this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I robbed the city treasury of L$ 30/week to set
one of the parcels in Find | Places 😉
Sudane Erato: dont think the estate owner has any ocntrol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means everybody in the group will get about L$ 1
less per week from traffic 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for paying the L$ 30/week fee)
Sudane Erato: I didn’t notice thr drain 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: lol Digi was jsut asking me abou8t that
Satchmo Prototype: what her $1L group fee was
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When the Expo is over, I’ll remove the plot again
from Find | Places
Satchmo Prototype: group payment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, group payment!
Pendari Lorentz: I actually think that is something we need to pin
down. And learn about .. All of us that wish to host events =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the grounds that the Expo is generating traffic
like crazy…
Sudane Erato: yes, pen
Sudane Erato: major question
Sudane Erato: we should be experts
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. the Gypsy event was so popular.. I had to send
Kendra coffee through the phone line
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Pendari Lorentz: yes. Well.. I think the expo is great exposure to the
city. Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda. As long as
the guild did not object =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww I’m so sorry I missed that 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, Kendra is not here….
Sudane Erato: shes outside the door
Satchmo Prototype: I vote yes to Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda.
Pendari Lorentz: that’s ok. Garnet and I are going to make sure Madame
visits the city more often :-p
Sudane Erato: I vote yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great, Pen!
Kendra Bancroft: No objection here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I vote yes as well.
Satchmo Prototype: and I think the Make Ulrika Famous Plushdoll should
announce it in a photoshopped pic on the forums 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s a starter!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where else should we anounce it?
Kendra Bancroft: did I miss much?
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So RA members vote that Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda.
Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda. Kendra, if the guild has no objections to that. We
can move forward? Or I can send it to the guild and we will find out in
a few days if it is approved or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Sudane Erato: i move immediate approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m comfortable approving that now, if Kendra as
Guildemeisterinn doesn’t object 🙂
Sudane Erato: didn’t kendra propose it?
Pendari Lorentz: Not that I know of
Sudane Erato: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe unofficially she did, I think 😉
Pendari Lorentz: unless it went from her to an RA member without my
knowing =)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: no objection and a heart aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs embarassed*
Pendari Lorentz: which can easily happen..hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Pendari Lorentz: Satch said yes?
Sudane Erato: yes
Satchmo Prototype: yea\
Pendari Lorentz: ALright.. Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda. . And those
guild members wishing to understand how to list events. Will get together
with land owners, gildemeister, and estate holder to find out how this
is done =)
Sudane Erato: good… next?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next – “where to publish it”
Pendari Lorentz: 6. Univercity Proposal Revamped
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, we skipped publishing. Ok.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m right here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Pen !
Pendari Lorentz: no we didn’t Gwyn
Pendari Lorentz: publish = listing?
Pendari Lorentz: anyone there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my
Pendari Lorentz: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Pen – what exactly are we discussing?
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. 3 min recess to tinkle then we move forward
Kendra Bancroft: The Ulrika plushie has been advertised on the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: afk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaawww Kendra 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s selling so well I’I’m going to open a mercahdise
cart in Altenburg
Kendra Bancroft: merhandise cart
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully you won’t expect me to tell jokes or
something, because I’m terrible at those 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: whatever
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How will that work?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and wb Eugene 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw Kendra… while we are in recess…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where can people buy the Expo Hat? 😀
Tai Tuppakaka: I think the hat looks great on Gwyneth, I’m just not
sure it’ll look good on me. Hehe.
Sudane Erato: 🙂 nor me
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a free hat on the food table near the geodesic
dome
Aliasi Stonebender: well, depends on if it can be modded to fit yer
head.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but Garnet wanted one as well!
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyneth’s a big hair sort of person.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It can be modded, yes, Aliasi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *blushes*
Kendra Bancroft: It’s got full mods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Tai Tuppakaka: I need a skull cap. Got any Expo skull caps?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not… yet 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Haha
Kendra Bancroft: You can always delete the brim, Tai 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Tai Tuppakaka: Is this year the first for the Expo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well – Neualtenburg is “only” one year old, Tai.
Kendra Bancroft: yes –it’s to celebrate our anniversary
Eugene Pomeray: hello 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As SL projects go, we’re ancient 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Eugene!!
Tai Tuppakaka: Ah yes, I should’ve remembered that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next event will be the Oktoberfest….
Tai Tuppakaka: So I guess that hat will quite the collector’s item.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I can think of maybe one or two other things
offhand that have survived… and none quite so continuously active.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then, Christmas probably!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right, Aliasi. So far, we can’t really
complain.
Tai Tuppakaka: Are you having an Oktoberfest this year?
Kendra Bancroft: jah! Weinachten on the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, most definitely!?
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –we’ll be settin’ up the old Hippodrome
Tai Tuppakaka: Isn’t it usually in September? I thought the Expo was
equivalent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hopefully on an extended time period – last year, it
was on Euro-unfriendly hours, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oktoberfest = October ;)(
Tai Tuppakaka: I lived in Germany. Oktoberfest is in September.
Kendra Bancroft: In Neualtenburg it’s Oktober 😉
Tai Tuppakaka: Ok
Pendari Lorentz: everyon back?
Kendra Bancroft: That way we get three major months of events
Sudane Erato: sure
Kendra Bancroft: Expo, Oktoberfest Xmas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – yes, it starts in September and goes through
mid-October, actually
Kendra Bancroft: with no overlap
Pendari Lorentz: Next Agenda item: 6. Univercity Proposal Revamped
Satchmo Prototype: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome back, all 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’m in full agreement that we should move forward on
this proposal
Satchmo Prototype: me too
Pendari Lorentz: other thoughts?
Kendra Bancroft: oh and good news –Sissie’s wagon will move to
Altenburg after the Expo
Sudane Erato: we need a full proposal
Pendari Lorentz: It is in the notecard Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose to have Aliasi and eventually
Satchmo on the committee working on the University.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the University *proposal
Sudane Erato: ahhh, i see
Sudane Erato: the action is to create a committee
Pendari Lorentz: the proposal already exists in the notecard under the
agenda item. That is the proposal we will vote on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes.
Sudane Erato: sure.. sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “endari Lorentz would like to propose that the RA
works to form a committee that would be responsible for gathering
information on creating an “organized education system” for Neualtenburg.”
Sudane Erato: well.. I certainly agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry for misspelling your name, pen 🙁
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ate a P!
Pendari Lorentz: at least you didn’t call me Penis like some do :-p
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like to be included in a texture and build class
Gwyneth Llewelyn: agggh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yuch
Pendari Lorentz: It happens
Sudane Erato: tsck
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that would be great, kendra!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, as a sidenote – it could help with the proposal
– this is another thing that most likely fall under the Guild’s duties.
Pendari Lorentz: The proposal up for vote is: that the RA works to form
a committee that would be responsible for gathering information on
creating an “organized education system” for Neualtenburg.”
Sudane Erato: I vote yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote on that committee to be created, yes.
Pendari Lorentz: i vote yes as well
Pendari Lorentz: Satch. .. Eugene?
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d suggest a committee with Aliasi, Satchmo,
eventually Kendra if she has got the time, and myself
Sudane Erato: agreed
Kendra Bancroft: I propose I build a chicken to replace the Penguin
Aliasi Stonebender: makes sense. I mean, I know Gwyn and myself teach
classes as it is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To discuss it over, probably publicly in the forums
and in-world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, just newbie classes, lol
Aliasi Stonebender: all kinds count!
Satchmo Prototype: yea I would like to do noob scripting classes myself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, yes, but I also hope that your own classes will
attract different kinds of people, Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, hmm
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. Proposal passed. Additions to the proposal
can be brought to the guild or future RA agendas =)
Pendari Lorentz: Final item on the Agenda today: 7. Proposals from
Guild on Requested RA Builds
Aliasi Stonebender: well, as it is, I get all sorts.
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most newbies are not really interested in “staying”
in Neualtenburg. But when they start going into scripting & texturing
classes, well, they’ll be picking for places to live.
Sudane Erato: we need to study them pen
Pendari Lorentz: I tried to upload the images to include in the
notecards. But some timed out
Sudane Erato: we only just got them minutes before the meeting
Pendari Lorentz: so I already motion this becomes a 7 day vote for the
RA
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: but thoughts can be discussed already =)
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve found a few newbies I’ve shown around are
seriously impressed by N-burg… the idea that a bunch of people just up
and made a city.
Kendra Bancroft: I didn’t have much notice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. yes Kendra
Sudane Erato: np..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, the Rathaus proposal is fine.
Pendari Lorentz: it was in the RA journal. But I did not formally get
it to the Gildemeister till today
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question to the Treasurer…
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we afford it? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: I motion that the RA reads these proposals from the
guild. and we take the next 7 days to discuss and vote
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember all, this is one building that will not earn
revenue, nothing…
Sudane Erato: we more and more move to a state where we can afford it
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild will consider accepting a promisory note
Satchmo Prototype: 7 day vote
Sudane Erato: the increase in new members is very hearteneing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we accept that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true 🙂
Sudane Erato: and suggests that this kind of project will fit within
our means
Pendari Lorentz: The Rathaus revamp cannot even be considered until the
RA decides that the current casino location can be re-used
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I don’t disagree with postponing the voting until
next week.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good point, Pendari.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, we surely voted for the casino to be
removed ASAP
Pendari Lorentz: yes we did
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the place will be “empty”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: I feel the location issues should be kept seaparte from
th Build issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane — yes, you’re right!
Pendari Lorentz: I can agree with That Sudane
Sudane Erato: the Rathhaus could also be located here
Kendra Bancroft: design wise the location is key for the Rathaus
Pendari Lorentz: only needed it to be considered due to past discussion
this meeting
Sudane Erato: we should develop a master “location”plan
Kendra Bancroft: as aestetically it bridges the Scloss with the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Sudane?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: urban planning? 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: that seems to incorporate some of Eugene’s ideas
Sudane Erato: casino, rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Kendra’s arguments on that proposal are pretty
convincing to me 🙂
Sudane Erato: destiny of all the city lots
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s also true, Pen.
Sudane Erato: especially around the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder what we’ll do with the current Rathaus then
🙂
Pendari Lorentz: shops
Satchmo Prototype: shops!!!!!!!!
Pendari Lorentz: =)
Sudane Erato: thus the need for planning
Pendari Lorentz: LOL
Sudane Erato: yes,, shops!
Kendra Bancroft: Current Rathaus should be converted to vendor space
Eugene Pomeray: i have business idea 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: we should convert one street into business street
Pendari Lorentz: we already have the platz for that function though
Eugene
Sudane Erato: all streets are business streets
Pendari Lorentz: ?
Eugene Pomeray: first floors being business, and second floors being
rentable studios
Kendra Bancroft: I think both sides north and south of the platz should
be business district quite frankly
Sudane Erato: I agree Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pendari Lorentz: just because it is not yet being utilized, does not
mean that plan does not already exist
Eugene Pomeray: frankly the fachwerks arent very business oriented
Aliasi Stonebender: well, sudane, given Eugene’s proposal on the
forums, I think it makes sense. looking for a house with a vendor in it in
the city now is a pain, frankly.
Kendra Bancroft: No –I have very low prim einefachhauses that would
suit better
Sudane Erato: I had long ago proposed to Ulrika that she proivide
modable fachwerks
Sudane Erato: for just this reason
Kendra Bancroft: three story builds much like the Bangzwang Steinzeug
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes — an old issue 😛
Sudane Erato: sio that they could be shops
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: yes. The Guild can set standards on acceptable “theme
models for businesses” for the platz =)
Eugene Pomeray: ah that would be great
Kendra Bancroft: They are designed by me to be shops
Sudane Erato: yes
Satchmo Prototype: hey we’re in teh middle of the log-a-thon
Aliasi Stonebender: yay!
Satchmo Prototype: we rule
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh gosh – already?!
Aliasi Stonebender: we will all get free useless trinkets!
Pendari Lorentz: that is a Guild issue though. in the Grand scheme.
Unless the RA asks for something specific within that area as “needed by
the city”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I forgot I should be on another meeting 🙁
Pendari Lorentz: me too Gwyneth
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. Motion now
Sudane Erato: 7 days
Pendari Lorentz: these proposals will be voted on by the RA within the
next 7 days through email
Sudane Erato: agreed
Satchmo Prototype: sure
Pendari Lorentz: agree myself
Kendra Bancroft: I would rez one here –but it’stoo big
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree as well.
Pendari Lorentz: eek! sory Gwyn
Eugene Pomeray: i agree sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, no worries 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no problem, Eugene 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. I’ll send out logs and proposals up for 7 day
votes this week. thank you all for coming. This concludes the RA
meeting for Sept. 18th, 2005 =)

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RA Meeting: October 02, 2005

Meeting on 2005-10-02
Those present:
Pendari Lorentz is in the chair.
Aliasi Stonebender: TMI, Tai…
Tai Tuppakaka: Hehe
Pendari Lorentz: recorder on. Welcome everyone to the October 2nd
meeting of the Neualtenburg RA
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, yay for being… well, not in the black,
but with a surplus.
Satchmo Prototype: doh I forgot to put in my proposal for hazing the
new residents 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: saved green for you only, Garnet
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene is not here, hopefully he will make it before
the meeting is over. I know he has had computer trouble
Tai Tuppakaka: I saw Eugene last night. I think he’s fixed his issues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I feel my party is always underrepresented, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s good to know, Tai!
Kendra Bancroft: what am I? chopped liver?
Pendari Lorentz: First item on the Agenda today is a wrap up of the
action items from last meeting. Please take a moment to read over the
notecard titled “Proposal Votes and Dicsussions from Sept. 18th Meeting”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? you’re very good looking chopped liver, but
without voting ability 😉
Sudane Erato: lol
Kendra Bancroft: 😛
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Agenda item 1a
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: Proposed “conditions” to be placed on the Rental
Chalets project.
Kendra Bancroft: Yah but I can harangue everybody into seeing things my
way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Pendari Lorentz: any comments on the proposal included as “conditions”
for this proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to make it short, I accept 1A as stated.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No comments 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s rather a moot point –since I’m moving the rntal
project to other lands
Pendari Lorentz: I also accept 1A as stated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft kendra. Why?
Pendari Lorentz: umm.. hmm.. why Kendra?
Pendari Lorentz: we have been discussing this all week. this is the
first I have heard you state that 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 🙁
Kendra Bancroft: I no longer see the upside for the City in light of
the fact that we are getting actual citizens
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: do you have today’s agenda?
Kendra Bancroft: I could still go ahead with it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We will charge you for having wasted our time, pfft
Pendari Lorentz: do you see the proposal under 1a?
Aliasi Stonebender: not wanting to tie up the lots for normal citizen
prospects?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: that seems to be handled under the current proposal
tho
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Aliasi. The one month rental period will handle
that as a compromise.
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra. do you have today’s agenda?
Kendra Bancroft: I do now
Pendari Lorentz: ok. hehe.. take a moment to read over the notecard for
item 1 section a
Kendra Bancroft: I can accept those conditions
Pendari Lorentz: ok. Sudane, Satch?
Sudane Erato: yes with me 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I vote Aye
Satchmo Prototype: and nice work putting that together everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye indeed for me as well (just to make sure 🙂 )
Garnet Psaltery: Fine by me as well
Pendari Lorentz: ok. That is 4 yes votes on this propsal. That is
enough to pass the propsal even without Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Yes those conditions on the chalets are fine 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 1B
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: B) Shall there be private ownership of a casino within
the City.
Glass of Champagne: Cheers from Kitchen Kreations!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Transalation on the proposals….
Pendari Lorentz: this item seems to be a tough one for us all to
compromise on. there are 3 proposals that we seem to have narrowed it down to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 1. -> gambling is state-controlled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 2. -> state benefits from gambling
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 3. -> gambling is free and not controlled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I got that right …
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that sounds right Gwyeth
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, as I understand it, if someone
otherwise followed the current covenants, we already effectively have 3, don’t
we?
Pendari Lorentz: though 1b)3 would be no control other than normal
guild standards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More or the less, Aliasi.
Garnet Psaltery: I like B2. We have some controls, get money, and are
less likely to have proliferating casinos
Kendra Bancroft: Might I mention that I have already entered into
discussion with Satchmo to the effect that I am considering refitting the
Gasthaus in Altenburg as a casino?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, the OLD idea of the Casino falls neatly
under B
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should mention that, Kendra, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I support B3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, to be consistent…
Satchmo Prototype: Gambling doesn’t carry the same connotations as
brinign in low income workers and degenerates in VR like it does in RL
Satchmo Prototype: to me, in VR, gambling is like selling clothes
Satchmo Prototype: and I certainly don’t support controlling clothing
sales
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. each RA member. Lets narrow this down further. As
of right now. Which proposal do you support most. 1b)1, 1b)2, or 1b)3
Aliasi Stonebender: the only downside of many SL casinos is how poorly
they’re done, but that is what the current covenant is supposed to
guard against.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: indeed Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I of course vote for A – controlled gambling; abstain
on B; and I have some doubts on C, but will probably abstain on that as
well.
Garnet Psaltery: 1b)2
Satchmo Prototype: 1b)3
Sudane Erato: 3
Pendari Lorentz: just asking for RA input right this minute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyn, you said 1b)1?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Comments are welcome, though, Garnet.
Kendra Bancroft: What prevents “Altenburg from having a Casino
currently?
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn
Pendari Lorentz: it is still within the city walls Kendra
Satchmo Prototype: nothing currently, but they want to make rules
against it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’d vote on 1b)1 and abstain on the others.
Satchmo Prototype: without special permit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo is quite right.
Pendari Lorentz: so mainly the argument is.. should the city make money
off the casino or not
Satchmo Prototype: for those of you who support B, I have a queston
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say no, Pen.
Satchmo Prototype: if I bet on a football game with my friends, in my
fachwerk, and I don’t have a permit, there would be ramifications?
Satchmo Prototype: even if no scripts are involved?
Pendari Lorentz: my vote would be 1b)3 by the way.. sorry..
Sudane Erato: 3 out of 4 have voted 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo: casinos have the side-effect of creating
lag, attracting people to a spot, creating “noise”; etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s different.
Aliasi Stonebender: But, Gwyn
Satchmo Prototype: so do bars (noise)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was actually what a minority of citizens
expressed in the forums.
Pendari Lorentz: the reason I am fine with 3 is because the Guild still
has control over the standards
Aliasi Stonebender: we already *have* provisions against those.
Satchmo Prototype: as far as lag goes we already have a method for that
Satchmo Prototype: I’m against making laws for the sake of laws
Aliasi Stonebender: well, lag and noise anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just voicing the minority’s views on the subject,
lol, to make sure their opinions and issues are duly represented at teh
RA 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen: yes.
Pendari Lorentz: I agree with that Satch.. mainly I think we were just
trying to ease concerns of citizens who were unsure about having a
casino in the city
Pendari Lorentz: thank Gwyneth! I’m glad for that! =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, lol. In this issue I’m really not supporting my
own views, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: so Eugene actually has a tie-breaker here
Pendari Lorentz: not really Satch
Satchmo Prototype: well potentially
Pendari Lorentz: as 3 of us voted 1b)3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just trying to get a reasonable compromise among my
own views (free gambling, not city-controlled) and what a minority asked
us to consider.
Satchmo Prototype: ah I see
Aliasi Stonebender: “angel’s advocate”, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I’m more “against” 2, where the city is
really getting something out of the gambling
Pendari Lorentz: I can call this a done vote now.. but it has been such
an issue, I just want to make sure the RA is comfortable with this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do that a lot, actually :)I
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyneth
Sudane Erato: ultimately the city can assess the casino a higher fee,
if it is very successful
Tai Tuppakaka: I know that I made a big stink about a casino to begin
with. But I’d just like to stay that although I am ideologicaly opposed
to a casino, I won’t stand up against a civic proposal to have one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not under 3), Sudane.
Satchmo Prototype: heh I’m against that as well Sudane, but that’s a
different issue
Pendari Lorentz: not under 3 Sudane
Satchmo Prototype: it’s like charging higher rent on successful
clothing business
Melina Loonie: Tai, I do not want to have a casino either.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pen 😉
Satchmo Prototype: cause they are successful
Sudane Erato: yes, I think so… since the City always retains the
right to change the fees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely, Satchmo. I definitely oppose that!
Pendari Lorentz: is that in every standard covenant already Sudane?
Sudane Erato: yes it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, on the grounds of “principle”, I’m
against “discrimination” (positive of negative) in land fees
Sudane Erato: i think its a fair system…
Sudane Erato: its like a real estate assessment
Pendari Lorentz: I think if it is not the guild doing the work, then
the city cannot ask for money for a private business
Sudane Erato: if the land gets more valuable…
Aliasi Stonebender: for what it’s worth, so am I. The city already gets
enough “reward” from a successful operation from *people coming here*.
Pendari Lorentz: is my opinion
Sudane Erato: then the fee goes up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t oppose the idea that this is actually defined
in the covenants (ie. the ability to change the fees) because future
RAs could come up with new ideas.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or that, yes, Sudane.
Kendra Bancroft: Pardon me –but that’s ridiculous
Pendari Lorentz: it sounds like Sudane you would rather vote for 1b)2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Eugene! (whew!)
Satchmo Prototype: it’s not hte land that is woth more
Satchmo Prototype: but the busienss
Kendra Bancroft: It actually discourages growth
Satchmo Prototype: if someone just moves that business to Midnight City
Satchmo Prototype: then Neualt is screwed
Pendari Lorentz: welcome Eugene! click the penguin for a notecard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Satchmo. Land gets more valuable due to
successful business, of course
Pendari Lorentz: of the agenda
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: If Modehaus is successful –will the city raise my
fee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Kendra.
Tai Tuppakaka: I’d just like the RA members to consider this. What are
the ideals you stand for? I consider Neualtenbrhurg to be a bit of a
Utopia. I’m not sure where gambling fits into that.
Pendari Lorentz: I would not think that would be right Kendra
Sudane Erato: obviously the City would restrian itself… cause it
wants to keep the business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As long as I’m on the RA, I’ll vote against that 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and if not –why is gambling different than any other
merchant?
Satchmo Prototype: that’s my stance Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: it is an organic city Tai.. things will come and go
and evolve
Satchmo Prototype: if we place limitiations on business types
Sudane Erato: Kendra, you’re right
Melina Loonie: Tai, seems that nobody is listening to us … 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I understand that future RAs may charge fees
depending on the “value” the business has. That could be a possibility.
Satchmo Prototype: then all new ideas require approval from teh RA?
Kendra Bancroft: are we here to support our mrchant class or exploit
them?
Sudane Erato: every merchant or other property should be assessed
thusly
Satchmo Prototype: like if I want to open up a theatre, and put on
plays… do I need to ask permission
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree, Kendra. What’s the difference between a
“gambling machine” that takes money (and sometimes refunds) and a vendor
that ALSO takes money (with a refund feature)?
Satchmo Prototype: will I build it and be told it’s illegal?
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild will not stand for that, Sudane
Pendari Lorentz: that is untrue Melina.. we are listening =)
Sudane Erato: its in every deed
Tai Tuppakaka: What nees to be considered is the morality vs. the
profitable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the sake of argument ? gambling, as in
casino gambling, is a “different” business, just because SOME citizens view
it as such.
Sudane Erato: and in the covenants
Sudane Erato: the City can change the fees
Pendari Lorentz: ture also Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it’s the RA’s responsability to present some of
the citizens’ views to discussion.
Satchmo Prototype: well I’m protecting the views of free enterprise
Satchmo Prototype: we have a few business owners here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we’re sovereign, though, we can simply rule out
that “gambling is different” (ie. proposal 3), but then we’ll face the
consequences at the next elections 😉
Sudane Erato: and I too support free enterprise
Kendra Bancroft: If the city wishes to tax a gambling establishment
that is another matter –but to base land rentals on a merchant’s sucess?
ridiculous
Melina Loonie: TY, Gwyn!
Pendari Lorentz: it is the guild that is in charge of the treasury.. it
would seem if the Guild Meister has an issue with the deeds, perhaps
that is something the guild should discuss?
Tai Tuppakaka: Free enterprise has never been known for being moral.
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t find gambling morally objectionable, thugh.
(Stupid, sure. But stupidity isn’t a sin, just stupid.)
Pendari Lorentz: the tax would fall under proposal 1b)a
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ys.
Pendari Lorentz: err, 1b)1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: proposal 1b)a is a compromise.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gambling is “state-directed”
Aliasi Stonebender: but on the “raise land fees if a biz is successful”
– I can tell youain advance what the result would be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. not free for everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but allowed under a license
Kendra Bancroft: I might add –any merchant taxes must be submitted to
the guild for approval
Pendari Lorentz: right gwyneth.. that is why 1b)1 exists. it is sort of
a halfway between the other two
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the state does not profit from it directly
Aliasi Stonebender: “that sounds like a really good deal, but I have a
better one. I give you the finger, and move to another sim!”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Pen.
Pendari Lorentz: yes Kendra
Tai Tuppakaka: Huh?
Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi was giving a sample reaction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: to raising the cost of land for a successful business
=)
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, sorry. and more on the general “tax successful
merchants more” principle
Aliasi Stonebender: less the gambling side… sorry for the sidetrack.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Kendra ? under 1B) 1., I would expect the taxes
or the permit or whatever to be something the Guild collects directly.
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene.. have you had a chance to look at the agenda
yet? we are on item 1 B
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll tell you the Guild’s reaction right now, while
I’m Guildmeister
Tai Tuppakaka: What are we about?
Kendra Bancroft: Every single store in Neualtenburg closes it’s doors
Eugene Pomeray: i’m looking right now 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Is it business? Or community?
Aliasi Stonebender: Both.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both, yes.
Pendari Lorentz: both Tai.. and government too =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: both, by necessity
Satchmo Prototype: I think this is an evolving city, that’s my view
Tai Tuppakaka: Well, I thnk that moral decisions must play a part.
Satchmo Prototype: utopia usually results in genocide
Sudane Erato: lol
Pendari Lorentz: I will never mix church and state =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: just need to put that out there.. hehe
Sudane Erato: whew! this is moving far!
Aliasi Stonebender: Whose morality, Tai?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … although we had a period of time with the Head of
State and the Head of Church being the same person *blushes*
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg was a teocracy! Woot!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we’re actually waiting for Eugene’s vote…
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is a corporate a oligarchy 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Sudane stepped on my toes.. Ok.. call to order. RA..
give me your thoughts again right now (need just RA for a minute)..
which do you like best 1b)1, 1b)2, or 1b)3?
Satchmo Prototype: 1b)3
Tai Tuppakaka: Lol. I admit that morality is a tough nut to crack. But
I doubt that you will find any society that santions gamgling for any
purpose other thatn raising revenues, and I find it distasteful.
Sudane Erato: 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b)1
Pendari Lorentz: 1b)3 for me
Satchmo Prototype: woot I’m distasteful
Satchmo Prototype: wonder how that will play in the next elections 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Satchmo 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: No, you’re a businessman.
Tai Tuppakaka: I don’t disparage you.
Tai Tuppakaka: But I think as a community we have a right and an
obligation to set standards.
Pendari Lorentz: with 1b)3.. this would mean that the guild sets
standards for the casino (as it is within the city walls).. but the owners
will retain full profits from the business
Satchmo Prototype: I promise when I campaign I will drap a Neult flag
over the bare breasts of statues!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and no limits (city.imposed) on the types and
number of casinos, etc. It would be all the Guild’s decision to do proper
urban planning.
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: that would be correct Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: So essentially you are placing Casinos under Guild
auspices?
Tai Tuppakaka: For the record, I find it within the community standards
to have open displays of nudity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, that’s a reason why I also consider the vote
on 1B)1. I think that the RA should also have a saying, not just the
“corporate oligarchy”, since non-merchants (but citizens nevertheless!)
should have a saying on community standards.
Pendari Lorentz: as it is a build within the City walls, Kendra.. the
guild sets the standards
Melina Loonie: Tai, LOL
Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. if the guild felt the casino was too
laggy, they could insist it be cleaned up (script wise, etc)
Kendra Bancroft: or shut down
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? since Eugene is silent (and I guess he’s
having troubles with his connection) ? I think that you’re right, it would
be just the Guild regulating “casinos”.
Pendari Lorentz: I’m sure satch will do a beautiful job, but yes, this
has to be stated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m quite certain on that as well, lol
Melina Loonie: How many casinos are we going to have … in the end?
Kendra Bancroft: Then in fact –any Casino liscence to operate is
issued thru the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not under 1B1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There won’t be “licenses to operate”
Sudane Erato: no, there is no license
Satchmo Prototype: to take off my RA hat… I’m not doing a Casino for
the money at all…. I want to do it so people have something to do
when they visit Neualt
Pendari Lorentz: no.. if we were going to have a license, it would have
to be a bill and that would involve the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just general issues regarding location, build
aesthetics, lag issues, etc
Kendra Bancroft: There is if you want the Guild to let you operate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Kendra Bancroft: otherwise what is my power to regulate?
Pendari Lorentz: the guild does not need to issue permits Kendra.. only
standards
Tai Tuppakaka: Don’t you find it a bit sad, that so many local
governments in the real world are resorting to gambling to solve their fiscal
woes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that you can prevent any other person
to do business in N’burg? hehe
Pendari Lorentz: like the list of Standards you are typing up to give
to the RA
Aliasi Stonebender: Not really.
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild can do whatever the heck i wants, Pendari
–The RA does not set Guild policy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Tai Tuppakaka: So we should have a casino on every corner?
Satchmo Prototype: should we having clohting stores on every corner?
Aliasi Stonebender: Not in the least. I am nto saddened by gambling,
I’m saddened by the poor state of education that peopel continue to
believe they can get something for nothing.
Sudane Erato: exactly
Melina Loonie: Yes, that would bring us a lot of money … but the
residents would move away. 🙁
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra.. but you were going to get us a list of
standards as it helps us in decisions.. the guild sets the standards
for the look, etc. of the city. The RA is only involved when it becomes a
matter of deciding on needed builds for the city and thus
Tai Tuppakaka: There’s a difference. Gambling preys on the poor.l
Pendari Lorentz: needing to commision the guild
Kendra Bancroft: But the RA doesn’t determine commerce
Eugene Pomeray: i think one street should be turned into
shopping/gamling area
Kendra Bancroft: that’s my point
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: but we *do* have to pass bills
Pendari Lorentz: I’m saying a bill is not needed
Pendari Lorentz: the guild already has the power to say when something
is harming the city
Kendra Bancroft: All I’m saying is that if you are having the Guild
establish standards for a business –you can expect that the guild will
issue gaming liscenses on casinos
Sudane Erato: construction standards
Pendari Lorentz: Covenants are guild issued as well Sudane?
Sudane Erato: thats all
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. construction standards.
Kendra Bancroft: and zoning issues
Sudane Erato: the coveneants are in the founding documents
Tai Tuppakaka: There are social issues to consider in addition to
fiscal issues. Not all businesses are the same.
Pendari Lorentz: sorry.. I’m still unclear a lot about covenants due to
them being introduced while I was away
Kendra Bancroft: If I determine a proposed loation will ruin the city
–I will not allow a casino there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, kendra.
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that I do believe is a guild function
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely, yes.
Kendra Bancroft: The RA has zero function telling the Guild what it can
and cannot permit
Sudane Erato: the covenants were added to provide a set of standrds for
land use…. under ownership
Satchmo Prototype: in the interest of time, either lets have a final
vote or push this issue off
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Sudane.
Sudane Erato: they are part of the ownership agreement
Pendari Lorentz: but if the RA feels that a needed build should be in
an area .. then we can approach the guild with that
Sudane Erato: ywes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, the Guild will have a saying *always*
Kendra Bancroft: That’s all I’ saying
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b1, however, introduces a special bill
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra.. what is your issue with item 1b)3?
Satchmo Prototype: if there is more discourse to have, lets push it off
Eugene Pomeray: i vote 1b)2
Kendra Bancroft: I approbe B3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: where the citizens (non-merchants, so, not Guild
members) would have a voice as well.
Kendra Bancroft: I have no problem with that
Kendra Bancroft: BUT
Kendra Bancroft: if you are giving the Guild a responsability –it is
up to ther Guild to excercise what it feels is the best way to keep that
responsability
Kendra Bancroft: the RA cannot set Guild policy
Pendari Lorentz: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but the RA can rule that some things are not
fully under the Guild’s authority 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b3 simply regards a casino as just another business
? thus, fully (and only) Guild-regulated.
Satchmo Prototype: I wonder if setting up a book store dedicated to the
flying spaghetti monster meets moral standards
Kendra Bancroft: It can petetition the SC to make that determination
Satchmo Prototype: certainly not for some
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whereas 1b1 recognizes that gambling is a special
situation.
Kendra Bancroft: it cannot unilaterally decide that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And allows the citizens (non-Guild members) to have a
saying as well.
Satchmo Prototype: lets issue liscenses for FSM stuff inside the city
walls!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Satchmo 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. the RA majority vote on this issue is 1b)3 ..
citizens.. if you have concerns on standards, I urge you to please join
the guild and/or talk with our Guild Master Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: I often wonder if the RA realizes it is but a third
branch of a government
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’ve never thought otherwise Kendra =)
Pendari Lorentz: Next item on the agenda.. 1 C) Approval of the MoCA as
proposed by Kendra.
Sudane Erato: yes
Tai Tuppakaka: Satch, I understand your argument regarding the
spaghetti monster, but I don’t think it’s quite the same.
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra, any issues with the concerns proposal included
in this agenda
Pendari Lorentz: item
Kendra Bancroft: I am in agreement to the proposed changes to my
proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, nothing to comment, except for one single
point…
Aliasi Stonebender: (… heh… on a tangental note… now THERE’S a
good Thinker’s topic…)
Pendari Lorentz: state what you want to Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who sets the goals for the MoCA? 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I would imagine the Guild sets the goals –and the
City can agree or disagree with them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable, Kendra.
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. the original request by the RA included giving
the guild first rights to run the MoCA as a group if they wished
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I would be very comfortable with the Guild
setting its own goals, and present the results in the form of a report
after, say, 3 months, to the RA.
Pendari Lorentz: that is what is in the agenda notecard Gwyneth. Kendra
has stated she is fine with this. Yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the rest is really for the Guild to discuss, ie.
if it outsources to a private group or not, etc etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – on the notecard it states “The City sets the
goals”
Kendra Bancroft: I’m fine with that –if the goals allow for the first
month’s goal to be the actual build
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was actually my wording on the email 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Kendra ? of course!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One month for the building, then the Guild sets up
its own goals
Pendari Lorentz: I am fine with that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For me, the only important issue is: the MoCA is
City-funded, City-built
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is utter freedom for the Guild to decide :()
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that was a smiley :)=
Kendra Bancroft: And my proposed design is liked?
Melina Loonie: I am leaving now … I will go to the Biergarte, as long
as we still have it. Anybody like to join me?
Pendari Lorentz: have fun Melina =)
Kendra Bancroft: Biergarten isn’t going anywhere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: enjoy yourself Melina 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, the Biergarten is staying.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway – 1C) is passed?
Pendari Lorentz: ok. On this item. RA votes now yes? if yes? what are
your votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All said “aye”? 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me, of course.
Sudane Erato: yes for me
Eugene Pomeray: aye
Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next! =
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok ? unanimous on that, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: item 1D all in the RA have voted yes on this proposal.
We would like the guild to consider our payment options if you can =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: D? 😉
Pendari Lorentz: D) Approval of the Rathaus as proposed by Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Kendra Bancroft: Proposed payment schedule for Rathaus is acceptable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was fast, Kendra 😉
I vote: (via Satchmo Prototype) Aye
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me as well.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Pendari Lorentz: I voted yes.. so moving on! =)
Pendari Lorentz: agenda item 2. Proposal for addition to all issued
covenants (past and future)
Pendari Lorentz: comments? vote now? or vote 7 days?
Satchmo Prototype: vote now
Satchmo Prototype: and Aye 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a proposal from the Guild to the RA to change
the covenant, right?
Kendra Bancroft: Works better for me anyway as I won’t start in earnest
on the new Rathaus unti after I make some headway on MoCA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes ? vote now)
Sudane Erato: *sigh* a lot of work to change all the past ones
Eugene Pomeray: vote now
Satchmo Prototype: a lot of work to reduce the lag? sounds like a
reasonable compromise
Sudane Erato: but I certainly agree with the concept
Satchmo Prototype: oh, the actually documents themselves
Pendari Lorentz: I don’t think they have to be added to the ones out
there Sudane.. a notecard sent out with the changes only I’m sure would
be fine?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: the docs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we’re allowed to change the covenants
retroactively, right?
Pendari Lorentz: just that they would be considered for current
citizens, not just new ones
Sudane Erato: yes, Gwyn, i think so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Kendra Bancroft: Any of my textures are already within the new covenant
of 512X512
Kendra Bancroft: so anything using my textures can stay as is
Sudane Erato: its mostly all the fachwerks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree to include any Guild recommendations on
the covenants, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, definitely an “aye” from me again.
Sudane Erato: they are full of 1024×1024
Aliasi Stonebender: (for the record, I never use textures above 512×512
with one exception, and it’s not in Neualtenburg.)
Kendra Bancroft: I would suggest that we do a redesign on each model of
the fachwerk’s
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: offer them as upgrades and have the citizens swap them
out
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very good proposal!
Sudane Erato: modifiable
Eugene Pomeray: the new fachwerks should have more city feel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please!
Kendra Bancroft: I’d also like to propose a bill
Pendari Lorentz: the item on the floor now is this proposal: 2.
Proposal for addition to all issued covenants (past and future) -The largest
texture allowed in the city will be 512×512 pixels. This applies to all
covenant zones and all structures unless overridden by the
Pendari Lorentz: the Guild Master.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on 2.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Satchmo Prototype: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: May I make a proposal?
Eugene Pomeray: aye
Satchmo Prototype: nope Kendra 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It will reduce lag greatly
Pendari Lorentz: is it already on the agenda? if not, it will need to
be submitted for next meeting =)
Kendra Bancroft: Clean Air tax
Kendra Bancroft: The city should tax all particle emissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pendari Lorentz: please do get a proposal in for our next meeting =)
Pendari Lorentz: agenda item 2 – all RA have voted yes
Kendra Bancroft: seriously –the chimney smoke is killing us
Sudane Erato: particles are covered in the existing covenant
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 3)
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: But if we tax them –people will think twice
Satchmo Prototype: yea I noticed that about he chimney’s as well Kendra
Kendra Bancroft: I’m not saying out;aw them
Kendra Bancroft: just charge for the lag u make
Pendari Lorentz: I seriously need a 5 min recess.. my child is needing
to be tended for a moment. I will be right back. Feel free to move on
to agenda item 3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok ? people, let’s use the upcoming week to
discuss that.
Sudane Erato: agreed Gwyn
Pendari Lorentz: we will need a full proposal.. please do submit a
notecard Kendra, I think it will be a good item to discuss next week =)
Kendra Bancroft: okie mokie
Pendari Lorentz: 3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill
Pendari Lorentz: and I will return shortly.. (3 mins!)
Kendra Bancroft: stop biting your nails, Eugene –it drives me nuts
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I don’t have any objections to the bonds as stated
by Ulrika… I was just wondering where 6 months came from
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Sudane Erato: I have only the objection of applying the existing loans
as bonds under this bill
Sudane Erato: since the city is not good for them
Satchmo Prototype: what is the state of the current loands?
Kendra Bancroft: I agreee, Sudane –they should be new bonds
Sudane Erato: ahh…
Sudane Erato: Satch… I recall I think that we owe about US$550
Sudane Erato: until there is underlying value in the city
Eugene Pomeray: i will be right back
Sudane Erato: there is nothing to issue the bonds agaibnst
Sudane Erato: there is no “security” for the bond holder
Kendra Bancroft: don’t you have gold fillings, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Satchmo Prototype: sudane will never smile again 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: “can we have your kidney?”
Sudane Erato: you have my personal credit 🙂
Sudane Erato: thats enough!
Satchmo Prototype: we can hire Amiee to steal her kidney
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s kidnap Aimee Weber’sd panties
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have to live with unsecured bonds 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who cares…
Sudane Erato: well… no
Sudane Erato: if we sell bonds now
Satchmo Prototype: what is the payback plan for the current loan?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The value of them reflects N’burg’s ability to be ran
successfully 🙂
Sudane Erato: that cash represents value
Sudane Erato: there is no payback plan
Satchmo Prototype: ah, good deal for the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Satchmo 🙂
Sudane Erato: it simply is the faith on the growth of NBurg
Satchmo Prototype: bad deal for the loanees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: but
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the loanees are completely nuts anyway, so…
😉
Sudane Erato: issue bonds
Sudane Erato: thats different
Sudane Erato: you can’t approach bonds the same way as the original
loans
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ulrika was pretty much interested in having the
original “loans” be converted into bonds.
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: How about we use Garnet’s kisses to back up the bonds
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that she would like all the bonds be
“regulated” under the same bill.
Sudane Erato: shes the big merchant these days 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, those need not be considered bonds
Satchmo Prototype: well the original “loans” were never “bonds” it
appears
Sudane Erato: they had that name
Kendra Bancroft: oh please –I’m making a mint on my armour
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, of course.
Sudane Erato: but as Ulrika has shown with her formulas
Sudane Erato: they were not bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not saying we “must” consider them as bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just that Ulrika would *like* them to be considered
bonds.
Sudane Erato: yes, she would
Sudane Erato: she doesnt buy my concern
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok Sudane 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: scrolling for a sec
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA surely can decide that
Pendari Lorentz: honestly.. I have *no* head for this issue
Satchmo Prototype: so vote party line 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Pen
Pendari Lorentz: it seems fine. but I have no idea what the neg would
be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But this is a quite serious and complex issue.
Sudane Erato: well.. there’s no security
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I would like a 7 day vote on this proposal
Satchmo Prototype: can you explain what that means Sudane?
Sudane Erato: you take money from someone…
Sudane Erato: and you have nothing to offer them of tangible value
Sudane Erato: unfortuantely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I remember correctly, Sudane, Ulrika proposed that
when the City can’t pay back, it simply re-issues new bonds… right?
Sudane Erato: the most tangible value
Kendra Bancroft: we have land
Sudane Erato: we do not have land
Satchmo Prototype: ugg, that’s an ugly solution
Sudane Erato: we have sold most of it
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s like with a bank loan… you have to put
somethign up as collateral. Or, for that matter, on a small scale… a pawn
shop. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Satchmo.
Sudane Erato: yes, alisi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: nobody buys bonds unless they feel they’ll get the money
back in 6 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, I agree with Pen on this, I’d like a 7-day vote
as well)
Sudane Erato: and, if theres no way to do so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Right now, we can only offer “trust”.
Sudane Erato: excapt buy more bonds3
Sudane Erato: then its a pyramid scheme
Kendra Bancroft: WE could do it like in “The Producers”. Sell more
bonds than 100% percent and make sure N’burg is a flop
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good point.
Satchmo Prototype: yey pyramid schemes and casinos… we’re on a roll
today
Aliasi Stonebender: So far as I know, Ulrika wasn’t actually proposing
to sell any new bonds, tho… just a system for future bonds,
retrofitting the original loans.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Satchmo!
Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: haha Satch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: and its *only* the retro fit I have a problem with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the point still remains ? if we cannot *ever*
offer guarantees….
Sudane Erato: but… I vote for 7 days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: what is the point in having bonds to offer?
Sudane Erato: sure we can *ever* offer guarantees
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a way tp raise capital
Pendari Lorentz: then there would be consideration to accept the
proposal if it were only for future bonds, and did not affect original loans
given to the city?
Sudane Erato: the balnce sheet shows our value
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s still a trust-based system 🙂
Sudane Erato: and now its negative
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … like any other economical system, anyway.
Sudane Erato: when its positive… then we can sell bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s still half a year away, at least… hehe
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I motion we take this proposal to emails and
forums for a seven day vote
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think I agree with that, Pen.
Satchmo Prototype: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s go to the next polemic topic 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next agenda item: 4. Proposal for Finance Bill
Pendari Lorentz: hehe Gwyn
Sudane Erato: no… I think we are all in agreement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: talers, talers…. we need talers 🙂
Sudane Erato: I have only one addition
Satchmo Prototype: first off, we need to take the letters GOM off
anything official
Pendari Lorentz: this math is killing me
Sudane Erato: and that is to add what Satch proposed today in the forum
Sudane Erato: that the exchange value be set each month
Satchmo Prototype: yes I agree to my proposal!
Kendra Bancroft: If you’ll excuse me –since we’ve attended to matters
that deal with the Guild already –I’m gonna log off and get some pizza
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Satchmo.
Satchmo Prototype: later Kendra
Kendra Bancroft: Tschau
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is item 5, Kendra 🙂 Also Guild-related.
Pendari Lorentz: ok Kendra! thank you for being here! =) PS: the build
for the SLCC looks wonderful!!
Kendra Bancroft: oh okay
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll hang for 5
Pendari Lorentz: ok
Kendra Bancroft: and TY!
Satchmo Prototype: want to re-order 4 and 5 for the sake of Pizza?
Aliasi Stonebender: indeed Kendra, I’m building right across from it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with that suggestion, Satchmo. For Kendra’s
sake.
Kendra Bancroft: oh –I’ll have to take a peep, Aliasi
Sudane Erato: well… I think 4 is agreeable to all
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. for 4. I’m hearing 3 yes’s with the added forums
stuff from Satch for item 4?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, “aye” on 4, anyway.
Sudane Erato: why not just approve it?
Satchmo Prototype: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: not just me, mind… collaboration between me and
Jackan Ennui for thinker’s.
Sudane Erato: aye
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. then you don’t need my vote.
Pendari Lorentz: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your vote is always valuable 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I just wonder how i’t sgoing to be operationally
carried out
Satchmo Prototype: I mean is Sudane going to have to notify everyone
Satchmo Prototype: of what they owe in $L’s?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point is, how to determine R’ 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Kendra Bancroft: we should post a money exchange in the Rathaus
Sudane Erato: it will be carried out by a document which must be
consulted by all those who pay in L$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? that was my proposal, lol
Pendari Lorentz: Item 4 passed with majority vote – (pen abstains due
to having NO head for math). Will add Satch’s forum addition and
re-present bill to proposer (Ulrika)
Sudane Erato: before they pay
Pendari Lorentz: if Ulrika has no objections, this bill will be
considered passed
Sudane Erato: I’ve prepared that doc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: That’s cos I’m your alt
Sudane Erato: its on one of the links
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: and also on the site already
Agenda item: (via Pendari Lorentz) 5. Proposal for Construction Authority
Bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And here we go, hehe
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. we sort of touched on this during the casino
talks :-p
Sudane Erato: its fine with me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, basically, it’s just a clarification of the
Guild/RA interface as regards urban planning.
Pendari Lorentz: does any RA member wish to have a 7 day vote on this
bill proposal?
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn.. that is how I see it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really ? lol, I agree right now on that.
Kendra Bancroft: To me this points to why big projects are needed for
the Guild –so that little projects can be done with Guild discretionary
funds
Sudane Erato: it applies only to City-Owned? buildings, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “city structures on city land”
Kendra Bancroft: Right now –we’ve been operating off of Schloss money
Sudane Erato: yes… then I ceratinly agree
Pendari Lorentz: I can agree to this Bill. I honestly think it is how
we have already been functioning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it’s just to make it “official”.
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: it is –but it’s nice to be official
Satchmo Prototype: I vote aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Kendra Bancroft: I AM Gwyn’s alt
Kendra Bancroft: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m always assuming that “affecting the performance”
means “affecting the performance negatively”, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hahaha Kendra 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Majority RA vote yes on this bill propsal. Proposal
passed.
Satchmo Prototype: heh true Gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, you have to watch out for those nasty
FPS-improving gnomes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah wait ? “adversely affect the performance”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, always the negative
Kendra Bancroft: I already started doing this anyways
Kendra Bancroft: like the new streetlights?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s quite right, kendra 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I propose we arrest Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Satchmo Prototype: for doing that illegally
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Satchmo
Satchmo Prototype: since we didn’t hav ea bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Pendari Lorentz: that concludes all items on our agenda for today. If
no further comments (on agenda items) I will adjorn this meeting =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to arrest the builders of the Tiny City first
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, public execution for them.
Kendra Bancroft: and they’re low ad during the day –cos the lights
shut off
Aliasi Stonebender: wow. fastest meeting yet, I’m told.
The meeting closed at 14:26 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: November 06, 2005

Object-Name: notetaker beta 2
Region: Neualtenburg (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (174, 165, 172)
Region Meeting on 2005-11-06
Region Pendari Lorentz is in the chair.
Pendari Lorentz: Welcome everyone to the November 6th 2005 Neualtenburg RA Meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can you imagine that I had 4 meetings at the same time for 1 PM SL time? 🙂 Whew.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and the notecards are *still* loading for me, Pen 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: sheesh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “sheesh” indeed, Al.
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 1. Proposal Bill: Neualtenburg Bonds 2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yay it loaded!)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: RA thoughts on this proposal? This is a revamp of the first one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … now I just need to load the ones *inside*
Pendari Lorentz: haha Gwyn
Sudane Erato: well… 2 things improve it for me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m listening…
Sudane Erato: one is that the financial pix of NBurg has improved
Pendari Lorentz: true
Sudane Erato: so there is more “value” to base any bonds on
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: and the other…
Sudane Erato: well the conversion of the existing loans
Sudane Erato: is voluntary
Sudane Erato: so primarily new bonds will really be new
Pendari Lorentz: yes… I think those were the two main worries when we were disucssing the first draft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: i think the whole system is rather complex
Sudane Erato: but I am basically for it
Pendari Lorentz: I have no real head for it.. but it *seems* like a good thing to me.. I guess I would wonder who would be in charge of maintaining the records? The treasurer?
Sudane Erato: well. thats a good question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good question.
Sudane Erato: I would prefer not to administer it
Sudane Erato: but perhaps
Sudane Erato: it can be rather fully automated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What does our illustrious Guildemeisterinn have to say on that? 🙂
Sudane Erato: and not really be an issue
Pendari Lorentz: if it could be automated.. that would be ideal for everyone I would think!
Kendra Bancroft: If it could be automated –that would be far more scalable
Sudane Erato: I think so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so we need to know *who* is going to “automate” it?
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Sudane Erato: or alternative,ly
Kendra Bancroft: we should ask Satch if he could
Sudane Erato: who would administer it in the interim
Aliasi Stonebender: well, if it’s in SL fundage, you need a scripter… and Satch is probably the best we have right now.
Sudane Erato: yes..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: true
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. so RA members.. would you vote yes to this bill with the condition that it be worked as an automated process?
Sudane Erato: I would
Pendari Lorentz: I would
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ultimately, I guess the “banking/finantial” responsability falls upon the Guild, so it’s up to the Guild to set it up 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And i would, yes.
Kendra Bancroft: I would say it should not be implemented until we are readu for automation
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra
Sudane Erato: that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How long would that take?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the “automation” process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 week? 1 month?
Pendari Lorentz: So.. RA action on this proposal: 3 yes votes approves the bill.. the RA’s condition is that the process must become an automated one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen — I’m just raising the issue, because this means comissioning scriptin work from the Guild, and we should budget it 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: would depend on how busy the person the Guild picks is.
Flyingroc Chung: depends a whole lot on who is implementing it, and how much time he has to devote on it
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t know –and if the Guild treasurer does not wish the responsability of it –I suppose I could take responsability –though my knowledge of accounting is less than my knowledge of scripting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, yes, Aliasi. However, we could have a rough estimate in terms of how many hours of labour for that?
Pendari Lorentz: I’m no scriptor.. but I bet Satch could do it.. yes.. we woud need a proposal from the guild on the scripting costs so that we can approve the budget
Sudane Erato: well… its not a matter of accounting
Sudane Erato: its rather a matter of a complex spreadsheet kind of thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: that’s right! I always forget Aliasi is a great scriptor as well!
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m a scripter, but I dabble, I could probably do this, it’s just automation, but it’s a larger task than I’ve done before.
Aliasi Stonebender: *just mathmatics
Flyingroc Chung: scripting projects have really highly variable time schedule
Flyingroc Chung: s
Pendari Lorentz: welcome Bond =) click the penguin for an agenda =)
Flyingroc Chung: I mean, they are really difficult to estimate, especially if you do it on your free time
Bond Harrington: sry about not introducing myself earlier
Pendari Lorentz: alright.. how about the RA asks the guild to come up with a budget for this script based on what you think it may be worth (time, use, etc) .. and we can go from there?
Aliasi Stonebender: indeed. still, the basics are easy enough: deposit X linden, get Y each month until the bond is called and you get X back; the complexities are suing th eprinciple as part of your landuse fee and security and such.
Sudane Erato: well the transfer to the landuse fee could be a data export to the treasurer
Sudane Erato: even a simple list
Flyingroc Chung: also, it looks like you might need an external place to store information. Like, perhaps, the nburg web host
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Seldon Metropolitan: back and caught up
Flyingroc Chung: otherwise, you need to budget the cost of maintaining the software as well
Pendari Lorentz: question.. can this process be automated?
Kendra Bancroft: This is where it pisses e off that Ulrika is leaving –she could do this in her sleep
Aliasi Stonebender: oh, it CAN, pend, that’s not the the issue.
Flyingroc Chung: I do not see any technical barrier, only time and effort of a good scripter is needed
Pendari Lorentz: the hows are a guild matter, just a yes or no concerns the RA =)
Aliasi Stonebender: the question is how much of a hassle it is to automate. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. I can understand that =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, even I have done more complex stuff… 🙂 (and sometimes it even does work!!) lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m not volunteering — sorry about that, I can’t find the required “spare time” for that right now.
Aliasi Stonebender: but in that sense, yes, I can confidently state the problem is solvable. interfacing it to the outside world is the touch part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you wish it for 2007 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I just make teh pretty
Pendari Lorentz: I would like to then call the action for this proposal: Yes bill proposal passed with condition the process can be automated. Guild will submit a definite yes or no answer and a budget by next RA meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds good.
Flyingroc Chung: Also, because this deals with real oney, I think you’d need to do some extensive testing before rolling it out
Pendari Lorentz: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Recommendation to the Guild noted 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Alright.. before the next two agenda items.. I have a question and statement in regards to them
Kendra Bancroft: agreed –we will test this with Flyingroc’s money
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Flyingroc Chung: I’m a poor grad student, you might have o take my ramen budget
Pendari Lorentz: These two items .. the Notary and Bank were submitted to me by Eugene to be on today’s agenda. I saw the forum discussions and included them. However, I am not certain if these are being proposed as Needed Builds that will need a budget approval by the
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m willing to do some testing, no problem *there*. I’m always losing 0.01 US$ in tests with PayPal? and things, hehe
Pendari Lorentz: RA.. or if they are just “we want to do this and we are doing it” sort of builds.. =)
Kendra Bancroft: let’s see at 33 cents per Ramen package that works out to about 10 lindens
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Pendari Lorentz: what do you think Kendra?
Pendari Lorentz: are these ideas yet an issue for the RA?
Kendra Bancroft: I agreewith the proposal –but I might have trouble reaching the deadline of next week
Sudane Erato: there are 2 separate proposals right?
Sudane Erato: that you are refering to?
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. there are 2..
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Sudane Erato: they seem pretty distinctly different
Pendari Lorentz: if these are being proposed as Needed City Builds.. the RA needs to first vote if we think they are and therefore will receive payment from the city
Pendari Lorentz: if they are just pet projects, we don’t have to be involved at all
Sudane Erato: well.. the Notary is not a build at all, is it?
Aliasi Stonebender: It does require money, though, so the question is valid.
Sudane Erato: I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was reading the notecard, and no, there is really no “need” for a building
Kendra Bancroft: But as thebudgetary issues require me to find out charges for services –I “might” hve trouble obtainng an answer –the scripting for this is out of my field
Pendari Lorentz: Not really.. it seems the Notary could easily be added to the new Rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Pen 🙂
Sudane Erato: sure
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. I hear you Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more an issue of paying Zarf a L$ 1000, and that’s all 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I have already planned for a NBotary office in the Rathaus design
Sudane Erato: yes… thats the issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent, Kendra!
Sudane Erato: is the service needed at this time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Consider the costs.
Aliasi Stonebender: although in principle it doesn’t seem too bad. our deeds don’t have to rely on SL permissions and you can roll the fee into the land price.
Sudane Erato: the bank is another interesting issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: From what I understood, Zarf is only charging you L$ 1000 to use his system.
Pendari Lorentz: Based on what I read in the forums.. it seems the RA already likes the idea of both .. but do we feel they deserve payment by the city for implementation.. Lets take the first one first.. The Notary
Pendari Lorentz: RA?
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t care if you store dustmaps in there –butr the office space wiill be available
Flyingroc Chung: there is also a charge per document that you notarize, right?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I know how the LL permission system sucks, so I’m definitely in favour of spending the extra L$ 1000 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much is that charge??
Aliasi Stonebender: currently Zarf charges L$100 a document, with L$50 for each signature over two.
Pendari Lorentz: I would vote yes this is something the city could need.. not just for ourselves, but I think it could bring business to the city from outside as well
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s noted he might raise it to L$200 / L$75 addl sig.
Kendra Bancroft: so we just charge moneys to nw tenants as “legal” fees
Sudane Erato: what about all the old ddeeds?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Pendari Lorentz: hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not *too* expensive considering the alternatives.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps we could give “Old” tenants a choice?
Pendari Lorentz: I would hate to charge citizens for a service they would not use.. that would be much like taxing don’t you think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: well pend, the point is they WOULD be using it.
Aliasi Stonebender: you’d HAVE to use ti to get a land deed. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either the RA says that “all deeds HAVE to be extra-strongly-cryptographically-signed”…. and we include the fee for that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or you wuld give them a choice
Pendari Lorentz: ahhh! ok.. then yes.. what about the old deeds? Gwyn you suggest giving the old tenats a choice?
Kendra Bancroft: The city should bite the bullket on the legal fees for the citizens we now have
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can use a quick & dirty method, or a safe one: your choice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pen.
Seldon Metropolitan: I for one would take the notarized version for both the security and for support of the technology
Pendari Lorentz: That I could think as a good idea too Kendra.. that would be a part of our budget then.. if we think we could afford that
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t know, I’d hate to have people opt for quick&dirty and have it bite us all.
Kendra Bancroft: w’ere talking 20 deeds atr 100 per
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: That’s not a lot of money for the city to convert
Flyingroc Chung: Does zarf have to be present for people to notarize something?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you — the permission system is not *that* bad, I’ve tried repeatedly to hack the SL client 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: No, he just installs the desk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s good to know, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: eh, Gwyn, after the god-mode hack awhile back, someone just might be a better hacker than you. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might.
Sudane Erato: but remember… the trasurer must keep off-site records
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As everything related to security… it’s a trade-off, always.
Aliasi Stonebender: No slur on your ability, just some people are /really/ determined.
Pendari Lorentz: Alright RA.. would you approve this as a Needed City “service/build” and accept the proposal of the city paying for the Notary costs of the current citizens.. New Citizen’s will have the cost included at their land deed sale?
Sudane Erato: the deeds are not the only record
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I know, Aliasi — and the system is not *that* good, you know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on that, Pen.
Flyingroc Chung: Would it be reasonable for the city to ask zarf for a commission on he notary service?
Pendari Lorentz: I think the deeds being notarized would be the only thing the city would pay for on past citizens.. other documents citizens past or future would have to pay for themselves
Flyingroc Chung: I guess like a tax for the notary
Flyingroc Chung: I guess like a tax for the notary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, basically, the alternative is to develop our own system, but that is way higher (in terms of costs) than paying a fee for Zarf’s system
Kendra Bancroft: I think it would be reasonable –unlessarf becomes a citizen
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. good point Kendra
Seldon Metropolitan: agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm that would be an idea, Kendra 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Sudane.. what do you think about what I just asked the RA?
Sudane Erato: about us dooing it?
Sudane Erato: or about implementing his system?
Pendari Lorentz: You: Alright RA.. would you approve this as a Needed City “service/build” and accept the proposal of the city paying for the Notary costs of the current citizens.. New Citizen’s will have the cost included at their land deed sale?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: About the city paying for the costs of the old deeds
Sudane Erato: I will agree reluctantly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry for repeating that, Pen 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: no worries Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why “reluctantly”? Because of the costs?
Sudane Erato: i’m not totally convinced it s needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Pendari Lorentz: I’m thinking future here
Sudane Erato: and thats perhaps a good reason
Sudane EratoGwyneth Llewelyn listens to Sudane/color
Pendari Lorentz: as Neualt grows and we expand.. we will not always be the small family we are now
Sudane Erato: thats why I will agree
Sudane Erato: but there reamins the hesiatation
Pendari Lorentz: you just think it is not needed at this time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me put this into another way. How long would it take to develop something similar?
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: anyone can waq
Sudane Erato: we have in place a more basic system
Pendari Lorentz: err, walk into a local bank and become a notary
Sudane Erato: in the future… this may be necessary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can say from my experience that it would take, uh, about 4 Gwyn-hours — 2 to read manuals, two to develop. Of course, in my personal case, that means about, uh, 4-48 months until I get the time, lol
Pendari Lorentz: as for the scripting.. I have no idea how to merge those two worlds
Sudane Erato: so… perhaps its just a matter of when
Sudane Erato: hehe gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: are we obliged to keep the service in perpetuity? If it doesn’t work it –we are free to go bck to our current system
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: we are risking only some 3K
Sudane Erato: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or to a different one. That is a good point. Yes.
Pendari Lorentz: true… but we also have other builds the Guild is working on that we still have to pay for.. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Pendari Lorentz: I agree.. 3k doesn’t seem like a huge risk
Flyingroc Chung: well, if we do all our deeds with the current system, we might get locked-in to it by virtue of the cost of converting again to some other system.
Kendra Bancroft: 3K isn’t gonna make a dent –and you are only paying for the Rathaus at this point
Sudane Erato: well… roc, we’ll still have the existing deeds
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. could this service make more people trust the process better, and therefore bring us more citizens?
Seldon Metropolitan: yes
Sudane Erato: we wouldn’t have to back out
Kendra Bancroft: The schloss is paid for –and the guild is footing the bill on the Moca
Pendari Lorentz: if so.. the city could make that money back with just a few new sold deeds correct?
Aliasi Stonebender: it seems so to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, that’s assuming Zarf’s reputation is flawless 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: I did quite a bit of checking up on him
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: when the service was first announced
Pendari Lorentz: alright .. RA.. any objections to voting approval or not right now?
Kendra Bancroft: Neualtenburg must be at the vanguard!
Sudane Erato: i agree
Pendari Lorentz: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, I also agree. I still think it would take us an endless time to develop something similar.
Kendra Bancroft: And I need to make my tits bigger
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL!
Pendari Lorentz: 3 RA votes approve.. Action item for this proposal: You: Alright RA.. would you approve this as a Needed City “service/build” and accept the proposal of the city paying for the Notary costs of the current citizens.. New Citizen’s will have the cost inclu
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Bank now? 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Pendari Lorentz: err.. .haha.. you get the idea of the action :-p
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Bank.. same premise.. Agenda item 3.. RA: is this a needed city build? thoughts?
Sudane Erato: well. I feel that the bank is a good proposal…. but
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a simple matter of building an ATM like machine
Sudane Erato: it needs to be modular
Sudane Erato: we need a simple system now
Sudane Erato: for people to have land fee accounts
Sudane Erato: then perhaps in time
Sudane Erato: we can add other services
Sudane Erato: to exapnd to a fiull fledged bank
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, an dunlike the notary, the principles of SL ATM machines are well known. 😉
Kendra Bancroft: build is minimal –we stick a new ATM in the bank
Sudane Erato: well.. again its scrpting
Bond Harrington: This would be in addition to the normal “financial” building we have now. Kendra’s right, it would just be the matter of adding an ATM
Pendari Lorentz: I like the idea of a bank.. I think it can be a real asset to the city.. so I would vote yes for it being a needed build.. of course the next step if it were approved, would be to get the proposal from the Guild on what it would take and cost the city
Bond Harrington: BTW, do we still have the GOM machine there?
Sudane Erato: I agree pen
Seldon Metropolitan: I think this would be a great asset to the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me ask you something… the bank is mostly a web site, not really a building, right?
Kendra Bancroft: e have a bank build already –if you like I can work up a budget for sprucing it up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. the building is just the “fun” part of it.
Sudane Erato: well. now,, there is no bank
Pendari Lorentz: other than the build of the atm type machine Gwyn
Seldon Metropolitan: especially if some of the current account information was availiable from it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the ATM is irrelevant.
Pendari Lorentz: which would be needed as a thing to talk to the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. it’s “eye candy” I mean.
Flyingroc Chung: well, it would most likely be mostly a database
Sudane Erato: the website only has “display” information
Pendari Lorentz: I wouldn’t think it would just be eye candy..
Sudane Erato: and a button for paypal
Sudane Erato: all the rest is manual
Flyingroc Chung: and scripts that would interact with the database
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But what database?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does that exist?
Sudane Erato: no
Pendari Lorentz: I was thinking it would work like the shop atms and the gom type atms.. something that talked between our world and the real one
Sudane Erato: it is manual now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I read things like: “The bank would simply provide accounts for all citizens that the city could deposit or withdraw money from.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm…
Sudane Erato: again… the proposal is a bit too complex to start
Flyingroc Chung: yup, that means some sort of external database. Most web hosts will provise MySQL DB access.
Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. I thought the atm would 100% be needed for this to work
Sudane Erato: some in world interface is needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the important bit is not the ATM, Pen — is the whole application server 😛
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyn just made me drool my drink in confusion
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes… if nothing else, Hank Ramos has an open source one you can base future work on. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not my intention 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: (ATM-wise)
Kendra Bancroft: true –are there not opensource ATMs available now scriptwise?
Flyingroc Chung: I’ve developed a similar application for my land business, it takes about a week or so of scripting to get some basic functionality done. (but I’m not volunteering, sry, too much other stuff)
Pendari Lorentz: oh yes! I remember finding that and posting it in the Neualt forums Aliasi, I had no idea what it was for though.. haha
Aliasi Stonebender: although they don’t talk outside of Sl – all of that is handled through character strings.
Flyingroc Chung: at least for L$ based accounts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, doing XML-RPC thingies to talk to web-based servers is my personal hobby… it was launched in June 2004 in SL, and my first thingy worked in September (I just joined in the end of July, lol)
Flyingroc Chung: paypal accounts would be more complex
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah
Kendra Bancroft: I could build the actual ATM (not script) in about 10 minutes –so the build is not theissue
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, so, unlike, say, me, you know WTF to do. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quoting Kendra, “I do those during my sleep”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I simply don’t have time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But i can give a rough estimate on how long it takes.
Kendra Bancroft: Maybe we can persuade Ulrika to knowck one out?
Kendra Bancroft: It wouldn’t be much different than her vendor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since she *has* 99% of the code already.
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. RA Members.. it sounds like we have some doubts on what we really want to ask the guild to present to us for this proposal.. shall we take our 7 day voting period? Or are you ready to vote now to get a drafted main proposal from the guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have perhaps 60% of it, but I volunteer that gladly
Pendari Lorentz: I’m fine with voting now to get a proposal from the guild that is more solid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure.
Sudane Erato: I suggest we disuss this for the 7 day period
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree as well
Sudane Erato: oh
Sudane Erato: well… if you wish
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. I tricked you didn’t I Sudane…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and i would also like to suggest to consider outsourcing it to Ulrika, as said, she has most of the code ready.
Pendari Lorentz: /nod
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at elast I think she does, but I can forward her my stuff.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, it’d be unusual for the Guild to outsource stuff,. but I don’t think there’s actually anything /forbidding/ that, Kendra?
Sudane Erato: it seems reasonable that the Guild could employ Ulrika, no matter what her relationship to NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I even have some things that tie into her name2key database as well, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: technically –until she leaves –she’s still a Guild member
Pendari Lorentz: Sudane, since this is nothing final.. would you be comfortable with an action vote today that just requested a more formal draft from the Guild on what this proposal would involve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well — my only suggestion is because I trust Ulrika with that 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: actually, I think ulrika kinda volunteered already
Sudane Erato: yes, thats fine 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: Ulrika Zugzwang 10-13-2005 09:39 PM I can have most of the work done, as it will have to be integrated into the website and is fairly similar to the vendor code I’ve already done.
Pendari Lorentz: my wording was off earlier.. I apologize *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but that was before her leaving 😛
Flyingroc Chung: oh yea
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyneth.. would you agree the same?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Aliasi Stonebender: but she hasn’t formally left, yet.
Kendra Bancroft: She hasn’t left yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good to hear that, Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, pen — I agree we have the 7-day voting period
Pendari Lorentz: LOL
Kendra Bancroft: ownership of her Schloss land is still her’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I say “yes” on the bank on general principles.
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyneth, since this is nothing final.. would you be comfortable with an action vote today that just requested a more formal draft from the Guild on what this proposal would involve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just the specific issues that make we wonder 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sorry, Pen — yes, of course 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with that 🙂
Sudane Erato: and yes from me
Kendra Bancroft: I would request that the RA e-mail me a formal request of what I’m supoosed to provide
Pendari Lorentz: yes from me as well. Action for agenda item 3: RA requests a more formal draft from the Guild on what this proposal would involve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: no problem Kendra =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree to Kendra’s request 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: cos –ya know –I’m blonde
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d like to add on the agenda that I agree on general principles.
Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra
Sudane Erato: I certainly agree on general principles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You too, kendra?
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 4: 4. Proposal for Constitutional Amendment to Article VI, Section 2
Pendari Lorentz: RA thoughts on this proposal?
Kendra Bancroft: and yes te carpet textures match the drape texrtures
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for the record, who suggested the amendment?
Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra
Aliasi Stonebender: I meant to submit this through Satchmo, but t’was me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and I remind you that we sadly lack a 2/3 majority on that
Aliasi Stonebender: You may recall the forum discussion.
Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi Stonebender submitted this amendment proposal
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I didn’t know that until now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Aliasi, thanks, as said, it’s just for the record 🙂
Sudane Erato: I don’t think the departure part is enforceable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly agree.
Aliasi Stonebender: the old 7-day one wasn’t enforceable either.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: no exactly
Flyingroc Chung: doesnt this conflict with the “no departure ultimatum” part of the consitution?
Sudane Erato: so having any one is not a good idea
Pendari Lorentz: Yes.. we can talk a bit about it… but we cannot get a full vote on this today unfortunatly.. however we can take it to the 7 day vote and get Satch and Eugene’s votes taht way
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pen
Kendra Bancroft: She’s giving notice and willing to work out a transition strategy –it’s not really an ulktimatum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm, Flyingroc… actually, that should be the SC’s job to comment on that
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I don’t care so much about this particular phrase, it’s just if it doesn’t apply, it shouldn’t be there in /some/ form.
Sudane Erato: clint, could you take it outside?:)
Flyingroc Chung: just asking
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clint… you’re a bit out of order with that giant zebra, LOL
Clint Turner: sorry guys
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Clint Turner: can i be let out
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. there are a lot of little things like that I think could use modifying int he constitution.. Since I live by that darn thing, I have red all over my copy with notes *blush*
Clint Turner: thx 😀
Clint Turner: take care all gotta go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Pen 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: As departures go –Ulrika is being more than resonable to create a smooth transition
Pendari Lorentz: oh my! haha.. take care Clint.. have fun =)
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Kendra Bancroft: Though if I had my way –I’d place her in the stocks and not let her leave
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, this wouldn’t have retroactive enforcement, so no problem on that.
Sudane Erato: but having anything that s not enforceable… is that a good idea?
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s more a hopeful statement than anything else – after all, the only real punishment the city has for /any/ infraction is exile, basically.
Pendari Lorentz: how is it not enforcable?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What Aliasi said, lol
Sudane Erato: I have had 3 citizens now…
Sudane Erato: simply leave
Aliasi Stonebender: I leave. What the hell do YOU intend to do about it, Pendari? (theoretical question)
Pendari Lorentz: oh.. I see
Sudane Erato: 4 actually
Pendari Lorentz: lol Aliasi
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll stalk you of course :-p
Sudane Erato: the 4th has disappeared
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Aliasi Stonebender: but what this DOES do
Sudane Erato: what could be done?
Aliasi Stonebender: is if someone doesn’t give notice, we at least have grounds to simply reclaim the land… giving notice means they could sell their deed, after all.
Pendari Lorentz: ack!! emergencey afk.. super fast brb!!
Flyingroc Chung: does this mean if someone leave, his or her land will have to be kept empty for 30 days?
Sudane Erato: but thats the whole point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing really, except to accept our scorn until the end of time 🙂
Sudane Erato: these are people who alreday are abandoning their land
Kendra Bancroft: shun
Kendra Bancroft: we shun them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We post them on the Neualtenburg’s Distrust List 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: but then we have a firm “legal” standing to claim it… it’s already in the ToS, so it’s not /strictly/ needed in the constitution, but after the forum talk I figured I’d see how a version would fly.
Sudane Erato: the only land we have to keep empty would be people who have not declared their intention to leave
Sudane Erato: like Fedihlim
Sudane Erato: who has disappeared
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth LlewelynSeldon Metropolitan vanishes/color
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Seldon 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I see no Aliasi here.
Kendra Bancroft: we burn their effigys in townsqquare and get Madame Maracas to put a hex on them?
Seldon Metropolitan: we really need a way to force avatars into stocks witha majority vote
Flyingroc Chung: ok, here’s a hypothetical, person A says he leaves, and his land is sold to person B. Person A then decides to stay. Will he be able to claim his land back?
Bond Harrington: Do we need to put in a clause about renouncing citizenship
Sudane Erato: or into the guillitoune
Bond Harrington: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: that might be better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All confusing matters.
Sudane Erato: welll…. let us refer it to discussion for 7 days
Aliasi Stonebender: see, it’s a topic we do need to hammer out.
Kendra Bancroft: we take away their chickenhat
Sudane Erato: true Aliasi
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, all future chickenhats need secret backdoors to auto-delete.
Pendari Lorentz: back.. so sorry
Seldon Metropolitan: put some secret coding in the chicken hat thats activated if you skip out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pen 😀
Kendra Bancroft: No Chickenhat for YOU!
Pendari Lorentz: thank you.. I was thinking while afk and everything I thought of I countered.. haha.. so yes.. the 7 days is needed anyway, so lets take it
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: Action for Agenda item 4: referred to 7 day vote due to amendment changings needing unanimous RA approval and only 3 are in attendance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous?
Sudane Erato: agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Pendari Lorentz: did I spell it wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I thought a 2/3 majority would be enough!
Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. or am I wrong in the oh yes.. Gwyn is right
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll note that correction in the action summary.. sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no need to apologise, Pen, i was just wondering if I didn’t remember that bit correctly
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 5. Confirmation Hearing for New SC Member – Aliasi Stonebender
Pendari Lorentz: you did Gwyn.. I was in la la land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, “aye on the vote of confidenceon Aliasi”
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. there has never been a confirmation hearing before
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Sudane Erato: I suggest we approve Alliasi by aclamation!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: yea!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
Pendari Lorentz: I’m assuming this is the chance the RA gets to ask any questions it may have?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild has no objection
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, pend.
Pendari Lorentz: I may have the only question… hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have some interesting news to share…
Kendra Bancroft: I need to log off , gang
Kendra Bancroft: Ciao!
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi.. when I first met you down in the valley, we talked a bit about Neualt… at the time you stated you had no interest in the Government and wanted to do your own thing. Now that you are up for an SC position.. has your wanting to participate in
Bond Harrington: later Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: the government changed enough that you feel you could be an asset in this role (as you are already an incredible asset otherwise!! ) =)
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s a good question, and one I’ve thought about myself. On the one, my opinion hasn’t actually changed; I don’t have any wish to seek out a position. However:
Aliasi Stonebender: on this, Ulrika came to me and asked, and I stated quite simply – I’m not opposed. And given I’ve made a commitment to Nburg, if I’m /asked/, that’s different.
Sudane Erato: bravo
Pendari Lorentz: =)
Pendari Lorentz: That’s good enough for me! =)
Bond Harrington: That’s good, because you might be getting her job
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: The horror.
Pendari Lorentz: I think that is the plan Bond.. haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *may* not have an option, actually, Aliasi…. but that’s an issue for the SC.
Aliasi Stonebender: (Although it would make my occasional drop-ins on Prokofy’s “THAT DAMMED PROK” discussion/rants that much more interesting!)
Pendari Lorentz: alright.. I have no objections.. and I look forward to having someone new in the SC.. yay for Aliasi! =)
Pendari Lorentz: lol Aliasi
Seldon Metropolitan: 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: if no objections then… I will call this meeting adjourned =)
Sudane Erato: great
Pendari Lorentz: Thank you everyone for coming! Logs will be posted by Tuesday at the latest! =)

The meeting closed at 14:29 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 11, 2005

Sudane Erato is in the chair.
Sudane Erato: not until we have Eugene
Keltrien Baker: well, that was painful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… well…
Keltrien Baker: : )
Sudane Erato: hi Keltrien
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Satchmo
Ed Baron: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Keltrien ? welcome : )
Keltrien Baker: Hello everyone
Keltrien Baker smiles to everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves*
Sudane Erato: sit down!!
Keltrien Baker: As soon as everything rezzes in I will grab a seat
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should take a few minutes… hehe
Keltrien Baker: runnning a little slow today, it was a battle getting online in the first place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, most people have complained about the same…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: yes
Keltrien Baker tries not to step on anyone
Seldon Metropolitan: sok , might wake me up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, our meetings *can* be boring ? but we haven’t even *started*
Seldon Metropolitan: well, I was tellign sudane, Im fighting insomnia and on my 28th hour awake
Sudane Erato: amazing!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww
Ed Baron: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s terrible, you shouldn’t be staying in front of a computer, Seldon.
Seldon Metropolitan: Ive tried laying down
Seldon Metropolitan: I went bowling
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That will demand your attention…. and make you less prone to relaxing
Aliasi Stonebender: We could give you a concussion!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh pfft Aliasi
Seldon Metropolitan: mmmm concussion
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to use some simple meditation techniques when fighting insomnia…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, *very* basic ones ? I’m not really an expert
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trick seems to be concentrating first on relaxing every muscle, this gets boring soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then to focus on a simple object in your mind
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I use the number 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Seldon Metropolitan: I was doing the flesh drain exercise earlier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Seldon Metropolitan: where you focus on your skin falling away
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ed Baron: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s news to me : )
Seldon Metropolitan: but It was at the point where I wanted to make the meeting
Seldon Metropolitan: so I didnt get too relaxed
Sudane Erato: so maybe we should start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack, so it’s all our fault for you not to get proper sleep…
Sudane Erato: heres Kendra
Seldon Metropolitan: mostly its your fault : D
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Ed Baron: hullo kendra
Kendra Bancroft: Hullo –by next week –you’ll be in the New Rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there Kendra : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Seldon Metropolitan: yay
Sudane Erato: great!
Seldon Metropolitan: next week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo may still join us…
Kendra Bancroft: yep
Sudane Erato: should we start with Winter?
Sudane Erato: or Elections?
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Aliasi Stonebender: well, at the least, can have the meeting for the recording and refer the rest to the 7-day discussion deal.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…. perhaps we should ask kendra how her time is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s valuable on the Winter festival discussion.
Kendra Bancroft: My time?
Sudane Erato: we could discuss winter first anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, “available time”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Sudane Erato: winter festival
Kendra Bancroft: I’m available –but Kelt is organizing this one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow!
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just a happy worker bee
Sudane Erato: yes… I asked him to get involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So how is *your* available time, Kelt? : )
Keltrien Baker smiles
Keltrien Baker: I am at your service
Kendra Bancroft: I thought it was time for me to let someone else have the headaches
Keltrien Baker: I own my own business in RL, so my time is nflexible
Satchmo Prototype: so sorry I’m late
Keltrien Baker: flexible that is
Sudane Erato: hello Satchmo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Spoken wisely, Kendra : )
Satchmo Prototype: been so screwed up with time today
Satchmo Prototype: between local and SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Satchmo, thanks for joining us : )
Seldon Metropolitan: tell me about it satch
Aliasi Stonebender: A wise decision, Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: Though I will open the cabaret for New Year’s Eve –and the skate rink is open to any who wish to hold events there
Aliasi Stonebender: hm
Aliasi Stonebender: “Class and Skate”…
Keltrien Baker: I need to get a handle on everything that’s going on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have a quorum now, Sudane? : )
Sudane Erato: i think so…
Sudane Erato: 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 😀
Sudane Erato: of 5
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s start on the Winter Festival then.
Kendra Bancroft: I have one question –do we like the benches system in here –or would you all rather sit at a big round table?
Sudane Erato: yes… someone should present the issues
Kendra Bancroft: at the Neu Rathaus
Keltrien Baker: I like not having to get up
Keltrien Baker: : )
Aliasi Stonebender: I kind of like the benches.
Sudane Erato: me too
Aliasi Stonebender: gives it a “New England town hall” feel.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything goes, so long as you don’t have crazy sit anims, lol : )
Sudane Erato: oh yes…
Sudane Erato: default sits only
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes please.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s start then on the Winter Festival.
Kendra Bancroft: Okay —benches it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to discuss… dates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: list of events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: promotion : )
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The two first ones are important, as we should “tie” them into the overall Linden Winter Festival thingy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Melting Snow”, like I call it, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: whats the lindens winter fest dates?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It starts on the 14th
Kendra Bancroft: Same as King Kong?
Sudane Erato: this wednesday
Kendra Bancroft: Good luck with THAT
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ends on the 21st with the traditional snowball fight, Lindens vs. residents. This year, with unlimited avatars per sim, they’re seriously outnumbered, hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: LOL
Aliasi Stonebender: hey now, King Kong, while by all appearances an excellent movie, is “only” 3 hours.
Sudane Erato: as the snowballs “step” thru the air
Kendra Bancroft: Then we should start on the 15th and really get going on the 22nd
Ed Baron: i agree
Sudane Erato: that sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Kendra Bancroft: Technically King Kong is 12 hours –as I will no doubt see it 4 times
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15th, hmm, that is Thursday?
Seldon Metropolitan: thats alot of monkey
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: yes
Ed Baron: 15th s a thursday
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s good, I can reserve a slot for Thinker’s on that day, lol
Kendra Bancroft: Can we get flyingroc to climb the clock tower and get buzzed by triplanees?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Flyingroc recently had a makeover, lol
Ed Baron: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some of his, uh, “friends” took him on a shopping spree at PixelDolls? ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a pity Eugene isn’t around
Satchmo Prototype: note the product placement in the RA logs
Satchmo Prototype: good money for that : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because he suggested the “Awards Cerimony”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (haha Satchmo!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I liked that idea altogether, btw
Sudane Erato: yes… the awards ceremony would be very nice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not “wintery” but unusual
Kendra Bancroft: I agree
Ed Baron: true true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you think we could use Ulrika’s palace for that? : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s definitely one of the more impressive structures for a “formal” evening!
Kendra Bancroft: absoluutely –I’ll get the throne room ready for that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: hehe….
Aliasi Stonebender: SOunds good if we can use it.
Sudane Erato: there’s a throne? !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks to the untiring Kendra, the Cabaret is also pretty much finished
Kendra Bancroft: What’s a palace without a throneroom?
Sudane Erato: yay!
Kendra Bancroft: Nobody uses the throne
Sudane Erato: true I guess
Sudane Erato: oh : (
Ed Baron: yes the cabaret looks great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just confirmed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Friday, 2 PM, Moon & myself will open it up officially, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: this friday?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, the 16th then
Kendra Bancroft: are you putting on a show?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll see what we can come up with ; )
Kendra Bancroft: let me know if you need anything installed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We always play silly for a couple of hours or so, and get 5-6 people together : )
Kendra Bancroft: Seems more than that –my dwell in Altenburg is through the roof
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing *too* fancy… hmm… I wonder if I can get Moon to host some cybering classes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Ed Baron: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When would be a good day for the Award cerimony?
Kendra Bancroft: This month has Altenburg at almost 3K in traffic
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d need a judge panel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow, Kendra!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Thinker’s on 2 PM at Altenburg
Ed Baron: ill judge
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ed : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Eugene has suggested several categories
Ed Baron: im very judgemental
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we need a mechanism to propose candidates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would you suggest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, a date and hour….
Kendra Bancroft: Create an awards group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no ? not another group!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless LL comes out with 250 groups next Tuesday…
Sudane Erato: that would be nice : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As if.
Kendra Bancroft: I had to quit being a sexy transgender just so I could join Ed’s group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *could* use the Neualtenburg group, though.
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol, Kendra ? you’ll always be a sexy TG to us : )
Ed Baron: i thank u 1000000 times for that
Sudane Erato: well… it really needs a cleanup project
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it’s a nice way to keep in touch with people *once* interested in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: still good for some spamming : )
Sudane Erato: many folks ask about joining the NBurg group….
Ed Baron: like me =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, they do?
Aliasi Stonebender: well
Sudane Erato: and I say that it isn’t functioning now
Seldon Metropolitan: umm Id like to get in the nburg group at some point
Aliasi Stonebender: the constitution still mentions the group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s pretty useless, Seldon
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm good point, Aliasi…
Seldon Metropolitan: useless or no,
Satchmo Prototype: hehe well lets clean it up… or… heh I’d like to drop out
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s why people want to join, they think they need to
Seldon Metropolitan: its a title
Sudane Erato: that was to be a separate proposal of mine
Kendra Bancroft: Sudane 00that top looks so good on you –I should take it out of rotation –so you have an exclusive
Sudane Erato: so that we have a convenient communication tool
Sudane Erato: hehe..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: ty Kendra : )
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s when I run to buy it RIGHT NOW just to flaunt what you said, Kendra.
Aliasi Stonebender: well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree on that idea, Sudane… I mean the group being used for that…
Aliasi Stonebender: maybe after the meeting.
Sudane Erato: would be better if you sold lots,,, tho
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Order, please! *knocks with hammer on table*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Ed Baron: =)
Sudane Erato: : )
Satchmo Prototype: I’d like to order french fries
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We definitely need Pen do make these meetings more efficient : )
Satchmo Prototype: I have a craving
Sudane Erato: yes! we do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t talk top me about French fries, Satchmo, it’s my dinner time and I’m starving, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *to
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know what.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s make Eugene a “victim”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since he has suggested the Awards Cerimony….
Sudane Erato: poor Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s up to him to set it up.
Kendra Bancroft: GODDAMNIT –now I’m gonna have to make a cheeseburger and fries for dinner –and my jaw still hurtz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, he’ll love to!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: Eugene willl be great
Seldon Metropolitan: way to delegate : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene is always frustrated because he doesn’t build or script, but running this kind of event, it’s just perfect for him.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *And* it was his suggestion.
Sudane Erato: i agree
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –this should be Eugene’s puppy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Seldon ? the trick is to do it always on people who aren’t online ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s settled, then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Sudane Erato: yes… agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, the ice Ring.
Satchmo Prototype: lol, I think Eugene is a good fit too
Kendra Bancroft: The Eisbahn you mean
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something so wonderful *cannot* go unused
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, lol ? I mean that : )
Ed Baron: ill run an event there
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Got you, Ed : )
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll set it up for event scheduling
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will you do?
Ed Baron: i dont care
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sexiest skating outfit? ; )
Ed Baron: anything really
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we need to have an idea
Ed Baron: German skating outfit?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that we can promote it
Seldon Metropolitan: 5000$L best in thong and ice skates? ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: German skating outfit sounds good.
Ed Baron: LOL
Ed Baron: german something
Ed Baron: kepping with the theme
Kendra Bancroft: I found during the Oktoberfest –that having contests really sells the event
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re quite right!
Ed Baron: yeah best german on skates sounds good
Kendra Bancroft: How about figure skating competition?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How many snowman contests have been announced so far…? that’s always a great one.
Ed Baron: ooo
Kendra Bancroft: we could have a panel of judges giving out numbers
Kendra Bancroft: and award medals
Ed Baron: OOO!!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, kendra ? that sounds like an idea
Ed Baron: i like
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What time & date do you suggest, Ed?
Kendra Bancroft: Like a small olympics
Ed Baron: saturday nights best for me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturday it is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : D
Ed Baron: time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is “night” for you, Ed? : )
Ed Baron: im on east coast soo….
Ed Baron: 7pm event is best
Kendra Bancroft: I also think we should have a tree decorating part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Kendra!
Kendra Bancroft: actually a Platz decorating party
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve started –but it shouldn’t be just MY vision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ed ? saturday, 7 pm, “best German skating outfit”
Ed Baron: sounds great!
Ed Baron: ill be here by 6pm to set up and what not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we *do* need to write these to send to all our “promotion channels” hehe
Satchmo Prototype doesn’t look good in skating outfits
Satchmo Prototype pouts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Satchmo!!
Sudane Erato: hehe Satch
Kendra Bancroft: and I do like the idea of ending the Winter celebration with a New Year’s at the Schwansinger Kabaret
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, decorating the Platz, Kendra…. how should we go about it?
Kendra Bancroft: since it’s right within the sound of the clock tower
Seldon Metropolitan: speaking of promotion channels, Id like aminute when things wrap up here if at all possible
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “running event”, ie. not fixed? Just with a “start” event to gather people, give out the rules…
Kendra Bancroft: How about like last year? We have a decoration contest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and eventually a “end” event with some (more) awards?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: any other events?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We haven’t set up the dates for the “decoration contest”
Keltrien Baker: I have a suggestion
Kendra Bancroft: well n–would anyone like to serve on a Pelznickle commitee with me?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, starting on the 15th, ending on the 22nd
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, two events announced.
Kendra Bancroft: I want to leave some sort of gift wrapped present on everyone’s doorstep
Keltrien Baker: I am funding the startup of an actors group, they might just be able to put together a short play
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh ho!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last time we did that ? was a BIG success!
Sudane Erato: great Kelt!
Ed Baron: o soudns fun
Kendra Bancroft: Nisse Nilsson has agreed to play Santa
Seldon Metropolitan: hehe the last play : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh WOW
Keltrien Baker: II will check with them about putting together a short Christmas play
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you have time to prepare it, Kelt?
Keltrien Baker: I don’t know, but I will check
Keltrien Baker: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: space we have… : )
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll also be converting the blacksmith’s into Pelznickle’s workshop –so if anyone has any Xmas items they’d like to sell –see me
Keltrien Baker: I would also like to host some kind of event at my house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might do something on Tuesday (the 21st if I’m not mistaken) on the Biergarten.
Sudane Erato: wed the 21st
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : D
Seldon Metropolitan: since my djing opportunities in-world are on hold for some polittical reasons, Id love to do a dance at some point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need an in-world calendar, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: I was thinking of holding an event there with Pelznickle (nisse) having children visit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds interesting : )
Kendra Bancroft: Shall I get Nisse in here?
Ed Baron: we should have a someone dress up as santa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “there” would be the Biergarten, right?
Ed Baron: let ppl sit on there lap
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure!
Satchmo Prototype: HTML on a prim is just around the corner, than an inworld calendar is easy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and give away gifts, hehe
Ed Baron: yeah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Satchmo ? around 2039 or so ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Satchmo Prototype: no your thinking of Havok 😛
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: oooh… lost kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… so we haven’t set a date for the theatre…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because I was going to ask when she wanted to do the Santa thingy.
Ed Baron: anyone think having a santa is a good idea?
Ed Baron: o LOL
Sudane Erato: sure!
Keltrien Baker: Everyone loves Santa!
Aliasi Stonebender: why wouldn’t a Santa be a good idea?
Ed Baron: im not sure
Ed Baron: why i asked
Satchmo Prototype: cause he’s fat, hairy and scares little children
Aliasi Stonebender: heh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: and has a drinking promlem
Seldon Metropolitan: I thought that was me?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re safe then ; )
Ed Baron: *problem
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Satchmo Prototype: no, only santa at the mall has a drinking problem
Sudane Erato: sounds perfect for NBurg : )
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, a drunk santa!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: maybe Keltrien can make up a master list of events?
Keltrien Baker: For sure. I’ll put together a list of everything that has been discussed here so far
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point of typing dates, places, people is just to make that work easier : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Nisse!!!
Nisse Nilsson: Hullo, Volk
Keltrien Baker: Hi Nisse
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: now we lost Aliasi : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: agh
Nisse Nilsson: So I here ya need a Pelznickel
Sudane Erato: so…. do we need a budget for the festival?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, our Treasurer speaks : )
Ed Baron: whats the prize gunna be for my event
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, for the contest prizes.
Ed Baron: L u hope
Keltrien Baker: I would like to run some ads in various SL media
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That as well.
Sudane Erato: promo is what I was most concverned about
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes
Nisse Nilsson: Kendra has pulled me arm enough to agree to be Santa fer ye all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although we’ll get a “free ride” on the Lindens’ announcing their Winter Festival.
Satchmo Prototype: can you be drunk when you play Santa?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ty Nisse : )
Nisse Nilsson: it helps, There Green fella
Keltrien Baker: I’m building a databse of all the advertising and marketing channels in SL, I will put together a proposed budget for that
Satchmo Prototype: excellent… but ssshhh, we don’t use the word “There” here : )
Nisse Nilsson: I can git Kendra to whip me up a santa suit
Sudane Erato: that would be great Kelt!
Seldon Metropolitan: keltrien, we should talk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, thank you Kelt!
Seldon Metropolitan: Im doing that for a number of other projects
Keltrien Baker: Yes we should Seldon
Keltrien Baker: : )
Keltrien Baker: I’ve read about the newspaper, I love it
Sudane Erato: I feel we could now commit some moderate amount to city expenses
Sudane Erato: yes… the tie-in between the paper and the festival could be great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly agree!!!
Ed Baron: back to prize money for events what the going rate on that now a days?
Nisse Nilsson: Do ye want me to put up some posters at the N’burg embassy that Kendra and I be building in Takalo?
Seldon Metropolitan: between the festival, the upcoming LL changes, the elcetions and the need for civics education, the paper is going to be hopping, if I can help it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nisse ? we’d love to : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Ed ? well, people will start to appear with L$500…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Seldon, yes : )
Ed Baron: i can give 1000 of my own money to each sex
Ed Baron: best male best female
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s hear the Treasurer on that : )
Sudane Erato: i’ve always favored that the city spend the money….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes me too : ) Citizens already pay the rent, lol
Ed Baron: ok
Ed Baron: either way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *and* do free work hosting events.
Keltrien Baker: How about having one event where all the cities nice houses have Open House?
Sudane Erato: sure….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How would that work, Kelt?
Sudane Erato: neat!
Nisse Nilsson: That’s a splendid idea
Keltrien Baker: we set aside a two or three hour window where the owners and maybe builders of the nice houses in town are home
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a very interesting and absolutely original idea!
Keltrien Baker: we’ll have one point in town where people can get the first waypoint or listing of houses
Sudane Erato: great!
Keltrien Baker: they can then go and get a tour, meet the owner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, excellent! I love it!
Keltrien Baker: etc…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
Seldon Metropolitan: thats excellent kel
Ed Baron: very neat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Nisse Nilsson: Kendra can make real-estate blazers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, definitely approved.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just need a day and a time ; )
Keltrien Baker: each one should have a notecard with info on moving in NBurg
Keltrien Baker: moving into NBurg
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Nisse Nilsson: Great idea
Ed Baron: i say dec. 20th
Satchmo Prototype: nice idea
Satchmo Prototype: Keltrien for RA in ’06!
Nisse Nilsson: I’m gonna go git Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s Monday?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: its Tues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol ? I can’t get my dates correctly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Tuesday it is.
Ed Baron: dido
Sudane Erato: hehe… I’m sitting next to a calendar : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re wise, Sudane : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And welcome back, Kendra!
Sudane Erato: wb : )
Kendra Bancroft: Did Nisse ever show up ? I couldn’t find him ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes : )
Ed Baron: just left
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please : )
Kendra Bancroft: Kelt for RA ‘6
Sudane Erato: notecard in the penguin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, we *have* a date.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: January 15th
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this means, January 1st would be the start of the official campaigning
Kendra Bancroft: and elections for a New Gildemeister a month after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And by that date, we should get all parties and party lists formed.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn… you have elections over 2 days…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah I suggested that, yes
Sudane Erato: weren’t they for a week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week…
Sudane Erato: I would strongly urge that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s a pity Aliasi isn’t around.
Sudane Erato: it sometimes takes a lot of arm-twisting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: to0 get everyone to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine by me… *but* this means postponing the elections
Sudane Erato: why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Starting them on the 15th, and going until the 22nd?
Sudane Erato: start of the 125th
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes ? that means postponing them, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the results.
Sudane Erato: oh! i see
Sudane Erato: yes….
Sudane Erato: both elections so far
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the election calendar can remain, though.
Sudane Erato: have been done that way
Ed Baron: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: and I’m quite thankful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we vote on that? ; )
Sudane Erato: Satch?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid he’s away 😛
Satchmo Prototype: sorry
Satchmo Prototype: what are we boting on?
Sudane Erato: well… i vote for it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah the Orc lives!
Satchmo Prototype: I think elections should be a week
Ed Baron: bacl
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good boy, Satchmo : )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do vote on that as well ? one week elections, from the 15th to the 22nd.
Satchmo Prototype: and the new term starts when?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the 23rd : )
Sudane Erato: the 22nd
Sudane Erato: oh… ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, lol
Satchmo Prototype: okie dokie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that depends a bit!
Satchmo Prototype: yea, what if we have IP scandals?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I *suggested* “closing booths” at 6 PM
Sudane Erato: tsk!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would give Ulrika some time
Sudane Erato: none of that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Satchmo : )
Seldon Metropolitan starts taking notesd
Seldon Metropolitan: ip scandals you say?
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Satchmo Prototype: read the forums from the last electoin
Sudane Erato: hehe
Seldon Metropolitan: : D
Seldon Metropolitan: I have
Ed Baron: ppl with multiple alters?
Satchmo Prototype: me and digi share a broadband router
Satchmo Prototype: we looked like an alt
Satchmo Prototype: the neualtenburg sky was falling for a few hours
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Ed Baron: LOL
Sudane Erato: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: yes
Seldon Metropolitan: its SL, isnt it always falling?
Satchmo Prototype: only on the forums : )
Sudane Erato: worse than normal
Kendra Bancroft: Only if your name is Coconut
Ed Baron: too true
Satchmo Prototype: and when you cross borders in a vehicle
Sudane Erato: hehe
Seldon Metropolitan: true story, coco ran me over with a car my second day in-world
Ed Baron: ouch
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Kendra Bancroft: Ulrika made me build a city by flattery
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean Cocoanut Koala? ; )
Seldon Metropolitan: yup
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and rofl Kendra!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Seldon ? ok
Seldon Metropolitan: sorry, lack of sleep making free associating easy : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Aliasi isn’t here at the moment…
Kendra Bancroft: Oh, Sudane –The ground floor of the Neu Rathaus will have the deed office in it –can I rely on you to stock the deeds on the shelves in there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also to prevent the am ount of confusion of last time…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re doing some Civic Classes
Sudane Erato: sure… : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aliasi started the first one yesterday.
Kendra Bancroft: TY
Sudane Erato: Kebndra… great!
Kendra Bancroft: and someone will need to put the penguin and the recorder in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *need* people also to join to form parties if they wish ; )
Sudane Erato: well… the penguin and recorder usually come in each weekk.
Kendra Bancroft: ahhhhhh
Sudane Erato: we’ll talk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although we found out that at least the MPP and SDF have enough members to run for the next elections… it would be nice to get more : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm what else should we do?
Sudane Erato: or… more members for those 2 groups
Kendra Bancroft: I’m thinking of forming a Labor Party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: prepare an email with “Election in neualtenburg 101”? : )
Seldon Metropolitan: I plan on staying away from party affiliation
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra!!
Seldon Metropolitan: for journalistic purposes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You traitor, you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Keltrien Baker: Seldon, we’ll start the party not affiliated with any other party
Sudane Erato: probably a good idea Seldon…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Kelt : )
Kendra Bancroft: The SDF has become to rightwing for me
Seldon Metropolitan: the party party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww lol
Sudane Erato: but you can’t vote for any individuals that way
Satchmo Prototype: lets announce the party stuff on teh forums like last election
Satchmo Prototype: see if we can’t drum up new parties
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that we have to do.
Keltrien Baker: yes, the Party Partywe just party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And if Kendra’s splitting, hmm
Satchmo Prototype: yea I was thinking of the Birthday Party
Sudane Erato: : )
Kendra Bancroft: Last I spoke to Pendari –she was thinking of forming a new party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That means we’ll only have one party right now 😛
Satchmo Prototype: we have no opinions on any issues
Ed Baron: christmas party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Ed Baron: nah that’ll turn out bad
Ed Baron: ill photocopy my ass and get fired
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *had* a Costume Party ; )
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Sudane Erato: remember… 5 members : )
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes : )
Kendra Bancroft: Oh –then I’ll stick with the SDF
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Kendra…. : )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: SELL OUT SELL OUT
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Turncoat ; )
Kendra Bancroft: I’m gonna throw open new elections for the Gildemeister –but since I’m the only one eligible to vote it seems silly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … I think it’s time for the Monarchist party, anyway ; )
Satchmo Prototype: any insight on who your gonna vote for?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You are the only one, kendra??
Kendra Bancroft: You, Satch
Seldon Metropolitan: constitutional anarchists party?
Satchmo Prototype: NOOOOOOOOOOO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Keltrien Baker: Sorry folks, I have to run. I’ll be in touch with everyone that I should be
Keltrien Baker: : )
Ed Baron: vote ed or go to bed
Seldon Metropolitan: keltrein
Kendra Bancroft: I need to promote some Journeymen to Meister Class
Seldon Metropolitan: IM me
Sudane Erato: great kelt! thanks!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes ? I think we have covered everything…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So thanks for your help, Kelt!
Kendra Bancroft: Or I am the only one in Meister class eligible
Seldon Metropolitan: Ill be around all day tomorrow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah right, Kendra. Hmm
Kendra Bancroft: unless some of you guys lose your seats ; )
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Satchmo Prototype: I’ll be losing my seat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rightm hmm
Satchmo Prototype: and hopefully contributing more to the guild in 06
Kendra Bancroft: oh! Then you’ll be able to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You are, Satchmo? Why?
Satchmo Prototype: but I’ve been promising that for a few terms now 😛
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, you mean ? you don’t wish to remain on the list for the RA?
Satchmo Prototype: RA needs fresh blood, we have lots of new residents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I agree!
Kendra Bancroft: Ulrika would have also been able to vote –but I heard she’s staying on SC
Satchmo Prototype: yea, I’m not running
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have to volunteer them by force : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Kelt Kelt Kelt
Satchmo Prototype: and i’d rather focus my Nuealt time on helping the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kelt sounds a good alternative : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *like
Satchmo Prototype: aww… I’m being pushed out for Kelt… I see how it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Seldon Metropolitan: speaking of which, I would be interested in a guild membership if it pleases the assembled
Kendra Bancroft: I for one would like to see what a new Gildemeister could do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: dirty politics, that’s all you get, Satchmo : )
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, Seldon!
Kendra Bancroft: I’m still toying with stepping down and running for RA
Seldon Metropolitan: Im going to need it when I ge to the stage of selling advertising
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gentlemen of the press are always welcome at die Gilde, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Kendra
Seldon Metropolitan: which should be in motion this week
Kendra Bancroft: Sudane? Wanna switch seats?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s something we can figure out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Sudane Erato: hmmmm
Seldon Metropolitan: can I take just a minute to talk about the paper?
Sudane Erato: might be a good idea : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fine, Seldon ? go ahead : )
Kendra Bancroft: As treasurer you already fill many Gildemeister duties
Sudane Erato: saure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we still get that on record, Seldon?
Kendra Bancroft: If you ran or Gildemeister –I’d vote for ya
Seldon Metropolitan: either way
Sudane Erato: we’ll talk : )
Seldon Metropolitan: Im still not sure of protocol here : D
Kendra Bancroft: we must
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Seldon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s just “discussing”, well, this is an open forum for discussion : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s a proposal you need a vote on…
Seldon Metropolitan: it is just discussing at this point : D
Sudane Erato: great!
Seldon Metropolitan: I dont think I require anything that needs a vote
Kendra Bancroft: I thot we were just being chatty Cathys
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should probably go towards the meeting next week ? but discussing is ok!
Satchmo Prototype: no, this is what a meeting is like without Pendari
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s the newest version, Seldon?
Seldon Metropolitan: this is resized
Kendra Bancroft: TY, SEldon
Seldon Metropolitan: should be better for hud
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Works GREAT as HUD!!!
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Kendra Bancroft: Seldon –I’d like to ask if you need a political cartoonist
Seldon Metropolitan: yea, just wear
Seldon Metropolitan: kendra
Satchmo Prototype: awww I don’t read latin
Seldon Metropolitan: I would love a political cartoonist
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: Then I’m your lady
Seldon Metropolitan: but I really also need a graphic artist
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: on both –I’m a GD in RL
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Seldon Metropolitan: cause my artistic skills are very lacking
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Seldon Metropolitan: layout and editing I can handle
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm I see a problem when both pages are opened…
NBURG TEST PAPER: First page.
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Seldon Metropolitan: problem?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the two pages get “squeezed”
Kendra Bancroft: I’d love to be considered as a resource for ya, Seldon
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Front page and last are fine.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Satchmo Prototype: do you think French Fries, a Latte and some Tofu is a strange dinner?
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: First page.
Satchmo Prototype: this is the kinds of things I eat when Digi leaves me for the weekend
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Satch —I do
Satchmo Prototype: but it sounds good to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve seen much stranger things, Satchmo : )
Seldon Metropolitan: well I can play with the stretching
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: Do you think beefaroni on a roll is strange?
Seldon Metropolitan: some basics as far as the paper goes
Seldon Metropolitan: heres what Im shooting for
Satchmo Prototype: yea
Sudane Erato: ok
Satchmo Prototype: plus I”m a vegeterian, heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … it’s too Whispery, lol
Kendra Bancroft: It’s all my jaw can handle tonight
Seldon Metropolitan: well that I can play with
Satchmo Prototype: been working out the jaw this weekend?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Replace the llWhispers with llOwnerSay
Kendra Bancroft: I still think we should have called the paper Die Huhnhut
Seldon Metropolitan: weekly publishing, on tuesday, with friday being the cut-off day
Seldon Metropolitan: for non-breaking info
Seldon Metropolitan: shooting for 12 pages
Satchmo Prototype: 12 pages an issue?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 12??
Sudane Erato: wonderful!!
Satchmo Prototype: who’s writing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
Kendra Bancroft: is it a monthly?
Seldon Metropolitan: probably about 4 of those are gonna be ads
Sudane Erato: yes!
Satchmo Prototype: and is all about just neualt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: have you got so much material?
Seldon Metropolitan: we’re shooting for weekly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re…. bold : )
Sudane Erato: that is great!
Seldon Metropolitan: neualy and SL
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a lot
Seldon Metropolitan: think of it as a city paper that covers world events
Satchmo Prototype: yea, I barely get one SLOG entry a month in
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is, for a starting weekly paper…
Sudane Erato: the best news of SL…
Seldon Metropolitan: I know its bold, but Ive been playing with content
Sudane Erato: comes from NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Seldon Metropolitan: for one thing, to make it viewable
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say open it up to ad space as well
Sudane Erato: its quite appropriate
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Seldon Metropolitan: I said, probably 4/12 pages will be ads
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll run a full page spread for Modehaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we sell the paper on the infohubs? ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … I was being mean.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Kendra Bancroft: I have a question
Seldon Metropolitan: shoot
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: What would you all like to see in an Embassy –Nisse and I are building one in Takalo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah yes.
Satchmo Prototype: scary guards
Satchmo Prototype: that stare you down when you get close
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and we need to know where they wish to put theirs in N’burg as well)
Sudane Erato: concrete barriers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –Isenland requests an embassy here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have that on a vote as well…
Satchmo Prototype: let the next RA argue about that one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How big?
Seldon Metropolitan: oh, one thing
Kendra Bancroft: and they wish to sell their flying Vikingship as an import
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re terrible, Satchmo : )
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Satchmo Prototype: I saw we tax imports!
Seldon Metropolitan: Im planning on converting my house here to a semi-permanent news office
Sudane Erato: thats great
Seldon Metropolitan: and I could use some help with sinage
Satchmo Prototype: I say we tax the news!
Seldon Metropolitan: sineage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wonderful!
Seldon Metropolitan: wow
Seldon Metropolitan: cant type
Ed Baron: YES TAX NEWS!
Seldon Metropolitan: signage
Kendra Bancroft: Just give me a list of what you need, Seldon
Satchmo Prototype: lets Tax Typos!
Satchmo Prototype: I’d be broke then
Seldon Metropolitan: typo tax would be rough today : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn considers fining Satchmo for being out of order ; )
Kendra Bancroft: tax beehive hairdos –no wait
Seldon Metropolitan: oh
Satchmo Prototype: is this still official?
Satchmo Prototype: doh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha yes!!
Seldon Metropolitan: one thing I would like the RA to think about
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’ll all be on the transcript later : )
Sudane Erato: Seldon, yes?
Seldon Metropolitan: is possible guidlines for equal media time for election ads
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Satchmo Prototype: would be nice
Sudane Erato: ahhh good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be great!
Seldon Metropolitan: and whether thats something we want to regulate
Satchmo Prototype: all I ever see around here is SDF signs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No one can stop Eugene : )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: yeah SDF seems like the only party
Seldon Metropolitan: “paid for by friends of eugene pomeray”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since there haven’t been *formal* complains…
Kendra Bancroft: wait till ya start seeing us all wear our Party uniforms
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although, hmm
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Oh –does everyone know about the new Volkspolizei?
Seldon Metropolitan: oh! I almost forgot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been briefly discussing with Aliasi some more ideas on the N’burg information system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s an old idea
Seldon Metropolitan: Im shooting for a week from tuesday as the first issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Surfaces up every moht or so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week from Tuesday
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sooo
Sudane Erato: great Seldon!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That means, we’ll have an official launch event!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: During the Winter Festival!
Sudane Erato: the 20th
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow
Seldon Metropolitan: cause I dont think I can get it ready soner, and I need to get it out before winterfestival is over and the elections are in full gear
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Seldon!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should get that event on the list as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a major one. We should invite the SL press
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hamlet Linden
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the metaverse guys
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Squagmire
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course the Herald : )
Ed Baron: YES!
Sudane Erato: oh my!!!
Kendra Bancroft: and Prokofy of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, they’ll come!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol kendra!!!
Seldon Metropolitan: technically I still work for the herald
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that a problem??
Sudane Erato: guess you better quit : )
Seldon Metropolitan: but I have been finding it difficult lately to write in their style
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: since you’re startimng competition
Ed Baron: whatever happened to SL the magazine?
Seldon Metropolitan: I should probably send walker a courtesy IM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *love* their style, actually, but I also think that there is time we get some more “serious” press
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl magazine?
Ed Baron: yeah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t seen *that* around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is that?
Ed Baron: i used to write for them
Kendra Bancroft: How about BoingBoing?
Seldon Metropolitan: my wife used to do advertising for them back in the day?
Ed Baron: gamespot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? excellent idea…
Seldon Metropolitan: umm
Seldon Metropolitan: cory doctorow might still hate me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?!?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of your herald article on him??
Seldon Metropolitan: I interviewed him for the herald
Seldon Metropolitan: and when I actually did the interview
Seldon Metropolitan: I was late because of problems calling overseas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh
Seldon Metropolitan: and was super flustered and unprofessional because of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : (
Seldon Metropolitan: he was nice and all
Ed Baron: i dont think he *hates* you
Seldon Metropolitan: : D
Seldon Metropolitan: I hope not
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Seldon Metropolitan: cause Im like a super fanboy of his
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ed Baron: that would be ver unprofessional on his part
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Satchmo Prototype: hey guys I gotta split
Kendra Bancroft: Question.
Seldon Metropolitan: anyways
Ed Baron: by satch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, if I understand correctly… there are ways to place articles at BoingBoing? and elsewhere…
Ed Baron: *bye
Satchmo Prototype: I’ll be back in 20 mins if anyhting important comes up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you Satchmo!
Satchmo Prototype: later all
Sudane Erato: bye Satch!
Satchmo Prototype: sorry for being out of order…. most of the meeting 😛
Kendra Bancroft: Once the Neu Rathaus is done , I was thinking of tearing down these structures and putting up commercial storefront builds along Talenstrasse
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Easily forgiven, Satch : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Sudane Erato: kendra… I totally agree with that
Satchmo Prototype: hehe, forgive me I’m sick and miserable this weekend
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too
Sudane Erato: hehe… always have
Satchmo Prototype sniffles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Satchmo ? I’m sorry to hear that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm kendra ? what we can suggest
Satchmo Prototype: no worries, catch you all later
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that you get a new plan of N’burg
Kendra Bancroft: Good –I figure since it doesn’t effect the layout and opens us up for more commerce and rent –it would be an easy one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the “commercial zones” in it
Sudane Erato: the more commercial space on the Platz… the better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fully agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and well ? as soon as we get to see the “new plan”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can officially vote on it as well
Kendra Bancroft: I have a basic 7 prim storefront that can be modified by the owner –and has space foe a store downstairs and an apartment upstairs
Sudane Erato: sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then it’s up to the Guild :9
Sudane Erato: Kendra… thats perfect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds very good, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees, it’s perfect.
Sudane Erato: shall we adjourn this meeting?
Kendra Bancroft: good –then I’ll do that once the new rathaus is finished
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would you be able to do a formal proposal for the next meeting?
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think it needs a proposal
Seldon Metropolitan: any news stories ideas let me know,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning ? a notecard, perhaps with the N’burg map inside, with the new commercial zones inside?
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a matter of Sudane rezoning this as sales lots on the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *drawn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seldon ? sure :9
Sudane Erato: well… thas easy to do
Seldon Metropolitan: first issue Im looking mostly at the telehub changeover, a civics primer, wenterfest and xmas, and laying ground for a lot of other sections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Kendra Bancroft: That would be four newlots for sale then –and would look more urban along the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Kendra
Sudane Erato: Kendra… I’m in favor… but I agree with Gwyn…
Sudane Erato: there should be *some* approval…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I definitely agree in advance, lol
Ed Baron: qwll i agree
Kendra Bancroft: and since the prim count is low –it leaves 33 prims for the resident to play with
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d also like to have the proposal *first*
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll write it up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … before we start demolishing half of the city, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Kendra : )
Sudane Erato: hehe… can we adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One point for the next agenda will be the Bond system, I guess…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *need* that operational…
Kendra Bancroft: But The Guild will do it gratis in consideration of the city –and since I built the structures months ago
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: gratis sounds great ; )
Sudane Erato: well… we alsio need a budge for 2006
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, Kendra ? how much does the City owe the Guild??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Kendra Bancroft: heh –it’s selfish –I put a texture store in Altenburg ; )
Sudane Erato: which should include funds for buildings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I think that we should do the budget *after* elections
Kendra Bancroft: Once the RATHAUS IS DONE? 25K
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: ok
Kendra Bancroft: HALF ON COMPLETION –THE REST MONTHLY TILL PAID OFF
Kendra Bancroft: soerryy caps lock
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: sounds great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane ? the point being, it’s always tough to get the new elected RA working on top of a budget already approved before their term 😛
Sudane Erato: yes… you’re right
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Sudane Erato: hehe… not that we’ve had a lot of budgets : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, iRL, in Portugal, this is standard practice, hehe ? just to piss off the next guys : )
Kendra Bancroft: fortunatley –the Rathaus fee has already been decided –and I’ve been working on the Biergarten as a hobby
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, lol, you’re right on that, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: yes. Kendra
Sudane Erato: thats been decided
Sudane Erato: and actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the Biergarten is now *usable* : ) So I guess you’ll lose some traffic in Altenburg soon, Kendra ; ) hehe
Sudane Erato: Bonds have been approved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Kendra Bancroft: The Eisbahn will stay until March
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Sudane
Sudane Erato: we just need a tool to administer them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excel? : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: no *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: anyway… Adjourned !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ginko? ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl yes ? adjourned, once and for all!
The meeting closed at 14:55 Linden time.

Permalink.

4th Representative Assembly (13)

RA Meeting: January 25, 2006

Object-Name: Neualtenburg notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neualtenburg (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (196, 186, 177)

Meeting on 2006-01-25
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should be interesting 😉
Sudane Erato: I turned on the recorder
Aliasi Stonebender: eh, this is just a bit they’re having to do… doesn’t pay as well as the others, but hey, that’s what trhe -multiple switch is for
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome to the first meeting of the fourth representative assembly.
Claude Desmoulins: Since Kendra will be late, we’ll postpone the old business until she arrives.
Claude Desmoulins: First thing is the web site.
Claude Desmoulins: Many thanks to Gwyn and Aliasi for getting a web presence restored after Ulrika’s departure.
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Dianne Mechanique: yay!
Sudane Erato: and FlyingRoc? too
Claude Desmoulins: I’m working on a MySQL database for citizens and land.
Aliasi Stonebender: like I said, I wasn’t using it for anything, there’ sjust times when having a bit of web space is handy and the bill was cheap, so I kept it up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And pendari ? she got me the missing images & CSS
Aliasi Stonebender: I also uploaded my spidering to the FTP site, gwyn, in case pendari is missing anything
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* ty 🙂 I noticed it 😉
Claude Desmoulins: What else do we desperately need on the website?
Flyingroc Chung: I dont know if the vendor still works without the website?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d say, first step is to launch a “call for budgets”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And t works, FR, it only doesn’t do any records.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this would mean writing down some specs
Flyingroc Chung: plus we need a voting station ready at least before the next elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: set up a budget for it
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: open up for people to propose them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anonymously or something…
Claude Desmoulins: That’s later on the agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: have a public session and picking a winner based on some criteria.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we have what we need to have for right now?
Sudane Erato: well… I need the land data
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… barely, I’d say 🙁
Sudane Erato: available for new people
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: but I think we have that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With redundancy as well, hehe
Sudane Erato: how is it updated?
Claude Desmoulins: I’m working on a land database. We can use Flyingrocs static page for the time being. Thanks, Flyingroc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can ask that to FR… what aliasi and myself copied, was purely a static page.
Sudane Erato: well… the source is my database
Dianne Mechanique: what technology woudl the site use? or does it use now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No tech, Dianne.
Flyingroc Chung: well that page isnt exactly static
Sudane Erato: casuse the new people are signing oon with Rudeen
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I think FR’s deal is just processing Sudane’s info, all it is, is a matter of automating that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just a static backup.
Dianne Mechanique: plone? SQL?
Dianne Mechanique: ah

1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, ulrika did it all statically.
Claude Desmoulins: I know Ulrika used perl. I’m more of a PHP/MySQL person myself.
Dianne Mechanique: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, perl, just for the vendors, etc
Flyingroc Chung: I’m better at php
Aliasi Stonebender: As long as we have something to point people to that’s accurate, I don’t think it matters if we use carrier pigeons.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe. Yes, that’s why we *need* to setup specifications
Dianne Mechanique: php/SQL is pretty much the standard isnt it?
Sudane Erato: hehe… they’d be inefficient 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think PHP/MySQL qould give us a bigger team of coders and maintainers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Flyingroc Chung: wudane, in the previous system, when you change that text file, does it automatically reflect on the nburg site?
Claude Desmoulins: or at least potential coders/maintainers.
Sudane Erato: yes… Ulrikas site went out and grabbed it at intervals
Claude Desmoulins: Before people do all kinds of work….
Sudane Erato: fairly often
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, great.
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Flyingroc Chung: mine grabs it every time someone requests the page
Sudane Erato: oh!
Claude Desmoulins: …would someone like to draft an RFP for the website that we could send out to the Gilde.
Sudane Erato: perfect
Sudane Erato: that would be great
Flyingroc Chung: so, it will update as soon as you do, sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be willing to put down a few notes, BUT I’ll have only time for doing that on the weekend. Mind you, I’m biased 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn awaits Pendari
Sudane Erato: well… the idea is to get a decsription of the project
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it seems she has *serious* trouble staying online for more than a few minutes at a time!
Sudane Erato: and then assemble a team
Sudane Erato: with a budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RFP can be pretty technical stuff 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s let Gwyn put together a draft spec and we’ll discuss it at the next meeting.
Sudane Erato: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d suggest working with Pendari, because I know she does that for a living as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Further website discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d be glad to have more.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *people
Claude Desmoulins: I also do some of it in my real job.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s have you on the team as well 🙂
Sudane Erato: why not circulate an email
Sudane Erato: with the document?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or use Aliasi’s Wiki 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah
Sudane Erato: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: like I posted
Flyingroc Chung: yay wiki!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be great.
Claude Desmoulins: Great. This means I’ll need an account 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: anyone who wants to register, I can let you get a username… it’s set to require a password to register.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: so, this bit try to remember to edit out of the log
Sudane Erato: do you need to register to read it?

2
Aliasi Stonebender: the password is “**********”
Aliasi Stonebender: nope
Aliasi Stonebender: you only need to register to edit
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: I’ll read for now
Claude Desmoulins: Next…..
Claude Desmoulins: …..A question about our procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: Many municipal governments in RL require multiple “readings” of a bill before it becomes law. Is this a good idea for us?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Multiple readings….
Sudane Erato: we had a set of procedures…. I wrote early on…
Sudane Erato: do they incorporate that?
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve never seen them.
Sudane Erato: ahhh….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I have a notecard called “RA Procedures for Meetings”
Aliasi Stonebender: On the other hand, unlike many RL governments, we can use the forum and email and such to ensure all can see.
Sudane Erato: I’ll have to find them
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah that’s it Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s the approved one….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: email and forum
Sudane Erato: could be a good “reading” format
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve dropped it into the penguin 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: well i am not a part of th eRA
Dianne Mechanique: but isnt a reading in RL
Dianne Mechanique: and actual reading of the document?
Dianne Mechanique: and we dont do that here at all really
Dianne Mechanique: speak it out like
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: we don’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no. It’s faster to add the notecard on the transaction 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: just a thought
Diderot Mirabeau: excuse me for speaking while not yet a resident .. but I think a reading is when the members get to pass proposals for amendments and these amendments are reviewed to see if they can muster a majority?
Claude Desmoulins: I think Aliasi’s right that the forums handle information dissermination, if we use them.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: so a rather formal procedure
Dianne Mechanique: i think diderot is right too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm, in a sense we do that all the time, but informally, I’d say.
Dianne Mechanique: opportunities for amendments
Dianne Mechanique: is the practical application
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s leave it unless we have problems.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, let’s not make things more rigid than we have to.
Claude Desmoulins: Next…. election aftermath. Give me a momen here if you would….
Claude Desmoulins: My sense is that an appearence of conflict of interest was created by having a faction founder also be the single election administrator and the only person who could see ‘under the hood’
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yep.
Aliasi Stonebender: although, to her credit, Ulrika seemed to play it straight, otherwise I don’t think SDF would have been the minority party last go-round. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: But the first question is, does our commitment to not revealing RL identities in essence preclude our investigating ‘irregularitiues’?

3
Dianne Mechanique: thats a big kettle of fish 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ohhh
Sudane Erato: yes it is!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Walking on thin ice there, Claude!
Flyingroc Chung: you could design voting system
Flyingroc Chung: that is open-source…
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, one weakness of Ulrika’s system is, being web-based, it went by IP.
Flyingroc Chung: thus, open to audit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and everybody could audit the code.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ FR
Aliasi Stonebender: in a SL-based system, you can go by avatar.
Claude Desmoulins: If we do want to investigate ‘irregularities’ some entity must certify and examine election results before declaring winners.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC can do it themselves…..
Dianne Mechanique: well if you go with one avatar one vote
Flyingroc Chung: you want a commission on elections?
Dianne Mechanique: the “irregularities” mostly dissapear
Dianne Mechanique: which has been my position in the past
Aliasi Stonebender: The SC seems to be the most appropriate body for that.
Sudane Erato: thats right… raising the other issues
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Claude Desmoulins: …..or we could have an election commission to which each recognized faction appoints a member.
Dianne Mechanique: the SC is the judicial branch
Claude Desmoulins: Since the SC would decide any dispute, if they’re willing to do election oversight directly, it saves a layer of bureaucracy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: An election comission is a good idea, although I also agree with FR’s suggestion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, hmm
Sudane Erato: could I suugest that we ask for proposal and discuss them in the forums..?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: this is a rather complex topic
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Sudane Erato: Claude, you could start the thread..
Claude Desmoulins: Will do.
Claude Desmoulins: Next, revenue, budgets etc.
Claude Desmoulins: In my forum post, I presented three possible revenue enhancement models…..
Claude Desmoulins: ….across the board hike in land fees, public/private partnerships with the city getting a revenue cut, or zoning…
Claude Desmoulins: ….the city into more zones to get a more granular land fee system with more than two rates.
Claude Desmoulins: Are there other ideas?
Sudane Erato: I prefer the zoned assessment system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: These are related mostly to land-based models, right?
Sudane Erato: more profitable zones pay higher fees
Flyingroc Chung: do we really need an increase in revenue?
Sudane Erato: not yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we do, FR. No expansion without more revenue 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: but someday we will
Claude Desmoulins: If we’re going to pay people to build voting systems, web sites, etc.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: thats true Claude
Dianne Mechanique: we should encourage more volounteer work 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Dianne, we *could*
Claude Desmoulins: That just caused heaps of trouble 🙂

4
Sudane Erato: I’ve never been a big fan of volunteer work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But actually this runs contrary to what the RA decided in the past. of course, things could get reverted.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Dianne Mechanique: just a thought
Flyingroc Chung: I’m a huge fan of volunteer work 😛
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: People may of course volunteer, but they need to set it up in writing.
Dianne Mechanique: some people dont care about being paid so much
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally prefer to pay low wages, than no wages at all.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, I mean, I’m doing a little “volunteer” work, as are others, but we’re all explicitly saying so, rather than it being taken for granted.
Claude Desmoulins: So we don’t have a repeat if someone changes their mond.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Dianne Mechanique: best to have formal arrangements
Dianne Mechanique: i agree with Gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: and that’s it… if someone /wants/ to work for nothing, who are we to stop them?
Flyingroc Chung: I agree also
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, “formal arrangements” is what we’re *good* at 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: but at the same time, we shouldn’t make it the expected default.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: If we are to expand, we will need revenue. Since we want to have the funds before we spend them….
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: …we need to think about our revenue systems.
Dianne Mechanique: whata about the taxation idea?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: World Domination Now comes at a price 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: is that dead?
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: funny Gwyn
Flyingroc Chung: I had an idea for partially funding the next sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Flyingroc Chung: …
Claude Desmoulins: Sudan has raised her concerns about the city taking portions of commercial revenues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: *Sudane
Sudane Erato: yes… I’m negative about a sales tax… which that is
Aliasi Stonebender: I also have one that may be Sudane’s, too – we’re competing against all theplaces in SL that DON’T have a sales tax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I asked before: should all revenue systems be based on “land”?
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: thats true
Aliasi Stonebender: land/prims.
Flyingroc Chung: based on property
Sudane Erato: and I think they should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, land/prims.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Dianne Mechanique: makes sense
Sudane Erato: land and prims are in direct relationship
Aliasi Stonebender: (since, really, one equals the other unless you’re dividing a single plot for the use of several people.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we vote on it? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: My concern with zoned land fees is that it’s taxarion by proximity. If your neighbor’s business is wildly successful, your taxes go up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Dianne Mechanique: thats true of RL though
Sudane Erato: thats true… and a valid problem

5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed it is.
Sudane Erato: I think we need to agree on some principles
Claude Desmoulins: If we do a zoned system, here’s a proposal….
Flyingroc Chung: well, if your business is not doing as well as your neighbor, you may still be able to sell your land for a higher price?
Sudane Erato: then I can draft some idaes
Sudane Erato: and we can refine them
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d prefer just a simple residential/commercial split, with commercial being a bit higher. I’m not sure “penalizing” people for being successful is a good idea.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally abstain from either decision 🙂 I think both have advantages and disadvantages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I agree that we should stick to one system…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let it run for a few months…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And evaluate 🙂
Sudane Erato: but… we must plan for ways to raise more funds
Dianne Mechanique: dont we need more zones?
Sudane Erato: I see
Dianne Mechanique: right now ther is city and country
Dianne Mechanique: but that does not necessarily equate to commercial
Dianne Mechanique: and residential
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, actually, nobody lives “inside” the city much.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Dianne Mechanique: but an explicit commercial zone
Flyingroc Chung: should we rezone the entire city as commercial?
Dianne Mechanique: might be better
Dianne Mechanique: to justify the higher rate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was thinking of that, FR.
Sudane Erato: its is zoned at a higher rate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly commercial and event hosting.
Aliasi Stonebender: but not very much higher.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would be bringing the ice rink inside the city walls…
Claude Desmoulins: I live in town.
Sudane Erato: about 40% higher
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and demolish half a dozen Fachwerks
Sudane Erato: 58.. 77
Sudane Erato: I think
Aliasi Stonebender: oh? heh. I hadn’t done the math.
Dianne Mechanique: can one do business outside the city currently though?
Flyingroc Chung: no
Sudane Erato: no
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Kendra is sadly not here, but she suggested informally that we had a model with shops on the ground floor, apartments for rent on the first floor.
Sudane Erato: ahh… Claude’s map 🙂
Sudane Erato: and if I recall… there were serious obstacles to the rental idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂 hehe
Dianne Mechanique: does anyone know who if anyone lives n the city?
Dianne Mechanique: or how many?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Satchmo…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene
Sudane Erato: about 8 – 12 people
Kazuhiko Shirakawa: I was going to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, Eugene has both plots inside and outside…
Flyingroc Chung: as I recall, kendra proposed that we actually sell the apartments like regular land plots… kind of like condos
Dianne Mechanique: cause why should those peopel pay commercial rates
Dianne Mechanique: if they have no store?
Sudane Erato: yes… it depends on what you mean by “live”
Claude Desmoulins: Can someone move my map to the middle of the roM?

6
Sudane Erato: you need to share it
Sudane Erato: oh!
Flyingroc Chung: can you put it on the wiki?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the jug complicates things!!
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s a draft zoning model.
Aliasi Stonebender: the jug is shared to group, should I move it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe perhaps, Aliasi!
Claude Desmoulins: Light blue are the plots with platz frontage (highest rate?)
Claude Desmoulins: Purple is Altenburg.
Claude Desmoulins: Dark red is a proposed University.
Flyingroc Chung: the schloss is part of altenburg?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww finally hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Orange – Gwynethstr.
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: not really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no, FR.
Sudane Erato: the Schloss is now abandoned land
Claude Desmoulins: It’s a draft 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: pale red is the north sidel] Sudane Erato: this is great Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Dark blue, everything else.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (there could be a complex explanation, FR, since Altenburg is 12th century, whereas the Schloss is 19th century ? but that’s besides the point 😉 )
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I always DID want my own castle… >.>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww Aliasi!
Claude Desmoulins: I have a .png I’ll put on the wiki.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have it for the Scientific Council!
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: “Palais de Justice”
Sudane Erato: I hope the SC is rich 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll be…. we’ll have the citizens pay fines
Flyingroc Chung: the SC can charge for legal opinion
Claude Desmoulins: That raises the question of what plots should be public land (or city supported to use Sudane’s term)
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Dianne Mechanique: The SC should have a great Dark tower
Sudane Erato: *sigh*…. too much city-supported land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sadly so.
Sudane Erato: one thing we must do Is privatize
Claude Desmoulins: Rathaus must be.
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: I *do* have a great Dark Tower, dianne. 😉
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Dianne Mechanique: thats right
Claude Desmoulins: If we don’t want it dull of vendors, the Platz itself..
Claude Desmoulins: *full
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Sudane Erato: I feel we should seell the loots on the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another issue again.
Sudane Erato: but Kendra does not agree
Claude Desmoulins: Kirche and Schloss are debatable.
Flyingroc Chung: is the MoMA city-supported?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MoCA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Sudane Erato: well… the MoMa? is in a complex arrangement
Dianne Mechanique: The Platz is the first thing people see
Flyingroc Chung: well it’s MoMA on the map!
Dianne Mechanique: if it was a tacky mall
Sudane Erato: MoCa?
Claude Desmoulins: It should be redone as a coffee house:)
Dianne Mechanique: that woudl be bad wouldnt it?
Aliasi Stonebender: I wouldn’t mind keeping the platz itself clear, so the city can decorate.
Sudane Erato: so long as the coffee house pays Fee

7
Aliasi Stonebender: it’d also give us a bit of systemwide “prim slack”.
Flyingroc Chung: I oppose burning the church down. lol
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Garnet Psaltery: Yay, coffee-house!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: MoCA – coffee house (bad pun)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Dianne Mechanique: the church could pay for itself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: how?
Dianne Mechanique: as an event space couldn’t it?
Sudane Erato: yes!
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I’ll start accepting donations 😉
Flyingroc Chung: you need a collection basket in the church
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that will hardly work, but it’s always worth a try…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or else, I’ll fill it up with vendors 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: heh, if you need a donation pot Gwyn, I’ve got a spare, the kind I use for Primtionary. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The second part of this is….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just seriously ? SL is going to move to a new stage, where all events will be paid.
Claude Desmoulins: ….land which is city supported should remain with the Ramnutzung, no?
Sudane Erato: yes… it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I’d like to have a few months until that is put in place by LL.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: And objects should be owned by Rudeen or the Guldemeister?
Claude Desmoulins: *Gilde….
Sudane Erato: the Raumnutzung is the group owning all the City land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They could/should be set to group….
Sudane Erato: unsold lots as well
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: For example….
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t think it matters who owns the objects, so long as they are (a) set to group and (b) set shared.
Sudane Erato: true
Aliasi Stonebender: anyone doing work on city-owned land can join the group as a member for the duration of the work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: BladeDancer? owns the church building and its furnishings. I’v never seen him in world. If we wanted to make changes, could we?
Claude Desmoulins: we=the city
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve seen BladeDancer? on occasion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I don’t know, Claude, but Kendra always tells me she could do it.
Sudane Erato: I recently made one change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I guess she has a way to keep in touch with BladeDancer?.
Aliasi Stonebender: One could return sections and alter it as needed.
Sudane Erato: I saw Blade recently
Sudane Erato: but he’s not here much
Dianne Mechanique: sorry folks I’m afraid i have to go
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, about time for me, too.
Flyingroc Chung: cya dianned
Dianne Mechanique: bye 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye guys!
Flyingroc Chung: dianne, even
Aliasi Stonebender: but I’ll try to stay long enough to end this topic..
Flyingroc Chung: bye
Dianne Mechanique: see you later Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put the zoning map on the wiki/forums. Let’s table.
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: great Claude
Garnet Psaltery: Bye Dianne
Claude Desmoulins: Bye

8
Claude Desmoulins: Constitution/Legal revision.
Claude Desmoulins: Someone needs to gather all the existing documents.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *all* hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: I had a thread on the forum, still sticky, but hardly anybody’s posted.
Claude Desmoulins: Only then can we draft new stuff,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I saw that, Aliasi 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, we don’t have a good collection of posted laws.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
Sudane Erato: ahh… yes..
Sudane Erato: Pen has them tho
Claude Desmoulins: Or, for example, the RA procedues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The forums are not good for that… the Wiki will be much better.
Aliasi Stonebender: Granted, with a wiki, it’s easy to post…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: so get on Pen about that. 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Flyingroc Chung: yes, wiki!
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: One everything is out, we can draft changes out of world.
Flyingroc Chung: acttually didnt the old website have sme of those documents?
Aliasi Stonebender: just have ot have a NburgLaw? section or somesuch
Aliasi Stonebender: the old website had ONE law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow, one? 🙂 hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: and of course the constitution, covenants, etc.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: but none of the regular law the RA’s passed.
Sudane Erato: those are all available
Claude Desmoulins: we need a section of laws, procedures, etc. Not everything has to me in the constitution.
Claude Desmoulins: *be
Sudane Erato: right… exactly
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the “founding” documents are fine, just the laws and the procedures are scattered among the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, let’s use the Wiki for now.
Aliasi Stonebender: well claude, like I said, just make a section on the Wiki.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And later, it’ll have a section in the “Neualtenburg Portal”.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m good with that.
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, I’ve got to skedaddle.
Claude Desmoulins: Bye.
Flyingroc Chung: bye aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even skedazzle 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye Aliasi
Garnet Psaltery: Bye all as well :o)
Claude Desmoulins: The next one is my pet project.
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you Aliasi ? and remember, we have to talk a bit about the SC as well!
Diderot Mirabeau: bye
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, I emailed you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops. I should read that. ty.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, who’s going to replace you here?
Aliasi Stonebender: just let me know when we can do the formal in-world meeting.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, we have a problem here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, it should be the “next in line”
Sudane Erato: oops… Kendra is on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But for that, we will have to have access to the election data.
Flyingroc Chung: as I understand it, you can be on more than one political body, but only vote in one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Ulrika has to be replaced as Dean
Claude Desmoulins: Right

9
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the Dean cannot be in the RA.
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Aliasi and myself will have a formal meeting
Claude Desmoulins: How about an SDF caucus to fill the seat, since we don’t have election data?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we had already an informal one with a witness)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude ? I’ve talked to Eugene about it.
Sudane Erato: hi Kendra!
Kendra Bancroft: Hullo 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, *unless* Ulrika is “willing” to reveal any data
Flyingroc Chung: hey kendra
Claude Desmoulins: Hi.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi tehre Kendra
Kendra Bancroft: Just got home –then had to DL the new version
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: now that kendra is here…
Sudane Erato: Can I offer an official thanks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!!!
Sudane Erato: for this wonderful new building!
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Absolutely.
Sudane Erato: Bravo!!
Kendra Bancroft: I’m so happy everyone likes it –I wanted everyone gathered for any suggestions before I put on the finishing touches
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sadly the recorder does not capture the sounds of cheering and clapping!!)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: so if anyone thinks of anything they’d like in here –do let me know
Kendra Bancroft: Kendra smiles ay Kaz
Sudane Erato: hehe… more camera space 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: A railing so we don’t fall through the hole to the ground floor 🙂
Sudane Erato: haha
Flyingroc Chung: I want these chairs to turn into money chairs. 😛
Kendra Bancroft: yes –a railing would be good
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think I could get more camera space in here
Sudane Erato: I know
Kendra Bancroft: I actually thot it was pretty good
Sudane Erato: just joking 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: seriously though, it’s already great like this
Sudane Erato: its great!
Claude Desmoulins: My next thing……
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like all the factions to send me banners
Kendra Bancroft: so I can place hanging faction banners downstairs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that would be cool hehe
Claude Desmoulins: How does one make a banner?
Sudane Erato: hmmmm
Kendra Bancroft: Just send me whatever texture you use for your signs –make it modifiab;e -I’ll turn them into banners
Sudane Erato: great!
Claude Desmoulins: …..Universitat Neualtenburg.
Kendra Bancroft: Hope you don’t mind if I jazz up the DPU a tad
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead. Just give me a copy back when you’re done:)
Kendra Bancroft: will do Il Presidente
Claude Desmoulins: I needed a logo fast.
Flyingroc Chung: so, what is this nburg university thing?
Kendra Bancroft: As Gildemeister, Sudane –your main function at these meetings is to make sarcastic quips like I used to
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe… nooooo
Sudane Erato: things change
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Many entities say they want to do education here, but it’s all scripting and building. Education is a natural service sector for SL.

10
Kendra Bancroft: Okay –then I’ll still be the Quipmeister
Sudane Erato: shhhhh
Claude Desmoulins: Do a real continuing ed operation with classes in non SL subjects.
Claude Desmoulins: I do distance ed in real life, so I
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: it’s a pet project.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not ready to fund it, run it completely myself.
Sudane Erato: I have one building here that would be ideal
Claude Desmoulins: My propsed model goes somethinglike this….
Sudane Erato: for a contained class
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Identify would be instructors and verify their RL credentials.
Kendra Bancroft: This would be for any type of classes?
Claude Desmoulins: Since the institution verifies the skills of the faculty, charge for classes.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds like it
Claude Desmoulins: City gets a cut, faculty member gets a cut, institution gets a cut.
Sudane Erato: hehe… sales tax 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think the logical spot to do it is to..
Kendra Bancroft: Interesting –does experience in RL tasks qualify –or are we using only accredited teachers?
Claude Desmoulins: …Yes, sales tax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, I put your old email to me on this on a notecard inside the penguin.
Claude Desmoulins: Experience counts. What do you mean by accredited?….. Higher ed usually requires post baccalaureate + 18 hrs in the discipline.
Claude Desmoulins: We put it on 2385 and 2410 Urusula weg, closing the street between them.
Kendra Bancroft: okay –so as a BFA employed as a working graphics artist for the last 20 years –I could teach photoshop?
Sudane Erato: interesting
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Sudane Erato: I have one person whos interested in 2385….
Claude Desmoulins: BTW most higher ed accrediting agencies have a RL mechanism like this.
Sudane Erato: but she’s been interested for 2 months 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why I wanted the idea on the table.
Sudane Erato: sure
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, why shouldnt this be a purely private institution?
Kendra Bancroft: well I’d be definately interested in teaching photoshop
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: I look around at SLCC/ Withnail Acad. etc. and none of them have so much as a class schedule or faculty list.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
Claude Desmoulins: It could be, I suppose. I think one could also view educational infrastructure as a public good.
Sudane Erato: hehe… all of NBurg is a public good… but that doen’t pay the LL fee
Diderot Mirabeau: but then there should be discount on tuition for NeuAltenburg? residents?
Claude Desmoulins: If the city chips in 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I imagine anything we can up with as incentives for citizenship is all to the good
Diderot Mirabeau: it could be a way to attract more cititzens … it need not be large
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway, if anyone is interested in working on or investing in the project, please let me know. The land investment is about $25 USD
Kendra Bancroft: Count me in, Clause

11
Flyingroc Chung: Do you think that this venture would break-even at some point even without the city subsidy?
Kendra Bancroft: Claude
Sudane Erato: yes… me too
Claude Desmoulins: I certainly hope so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d need a budget, of course.
Sudane Erato: and of course… the Guild be help in any appropriate way
Claude Desmoulins: E-mail me.
Claude Desmoulins: I also thought that a street change would require RA approval.
Kendra Bancroft: street change?
Sudane Erato: ahh… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Claude, in the proposal you suggest accreditation of the teachers. Does this mean you’d be considering some sort of a valid, legal, RL diploma or something for the students when they finish their courses?
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I got your wrong, then 😀
Claude Desmoulins: This is continuing ed, done for one’s own enrichment. I don’t want to deal withthe red tape of granting certificates RL.
Claude Desmoulins: If we want to, you’d need to partner with a RL institution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see. Ok!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just wondering.
Flyingroc Chung: You could give out a certificate… just not, hm, accredited
Gwyneth Llewelyn does RL education using SL hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I work for one of them, but I’m not ready to try to explain this idea to my RL higher ups 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’m In!! I’m walking!! DON”T SNEEZE!!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, FR
Sudane Erato: yay Pen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pen!
Claude Desmoulins: What I meant by accredited was tthat the people running it would verify the teaching qualifications of the instructors.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Door is to the N side, Pen!
Claude Desmoulins: Thus backing up that the instruction was worth paying for.
Diderot Mirabeau: and perhaps there would also be an evaluation procedure after each class
Claude Desmoulins: Absolutely.
Sudane Erato: yes Claude… makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: Claude, i suggest that rather than changinging streets
Sudane Erato: that perhpas we build a building that arches over
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway, it’s out there. COntact me if interested iin participating.
Sudane Erato: like an college quad
Claude Desmoulins: Good idea.
Sudane Erato: well… not a quad
Sudane Erato: but that idea
Claude Desmoulins: Although Urusulaweg doesn’t go anywhere 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: but what about the city’s role in the project … has that been sufficiently discussed at this stage?
Kendra Bancroft: Cool –College town –I’ll build a pizza parlour in Altenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the city has a serious advantage here ? the legal framework.
Sudane Erato: no…. but changing the streets would be a difficult precedent
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternative: blow up some “residential” quarters that are empty anyway 😉
Sudane Erato: actually thats true
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like the city to be a full blown partner, but I know how Sudane feels about sales tax 🙂

12
Sudane Erato: most of Sudanestrassse is empty
Sudane Erato: well you know my feelings…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes.
Sudane Erato: but really…
Sudane Erato: I am interested in whatever works
Flyingroc Chung: I too would rather see this succeed as a wholly private instituion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there are alternatives
Sudane Erato: I will argue a position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, the City can sponsor scholarships.
Sudane Erato: but I will go with the decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the University would be private.
Diderot Mirabeau: scholarships for residents only or why would the city want to do that?
Claude Desmoulins: Attract citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: yes if that were the purpose it sounds like a good idea
Kendra Bancroft: We could always go Gorean, according to Mr, Lardner they’re very succesful
Flyingroc Chung: yes they are
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and let those of us interested hash out some things until the next meeting.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol kendra 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, let’s do the embassy now. Where does Isenland want it?
Kendra Bancroft: Currently, Isenland is in Takalo –quite near where Neualtenburg used to be in Anzere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Small world 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I have quite a bit of land there to build it
Kendra Bancroft: about 1/2 of a SIM
Sudane Erato: !!
Kendra Bancroft: the rest is occupied –but I think a N’burg presence on the main grid would be a good thing
Sudane Erato: what would happen at this building?
Kendra Bancroft: well there are too options here –I’ll throw them out for discussion
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve scaled back my presence in takalo – for water property in Funadama
Kendra Bancroft: Mostly cos I sell a snot load of boats
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: anyways –The Viking presence has moved to Funadama in a small village I call Birka
Diderot Mirabeau: Viking?
Kendra Bancroft: At this point it would make more sense for a N’burg embassy in Birka
Kendra Bancroft: not Isenland
Claude Desmoulins: I guess my question was, Do you want a Birka embassy here?
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Kendra Bancroft: I would put it in Altenburg most likely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Near the cabaret?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … there goes the esplanade, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Since you already own that, the city doesn’t need to do anything, does it?
Kendra Bancroft: yes –I have tentatively built a wooden stabbur (log cabin) on the canal for the emvassy site
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the “embassy” is just a first step
Sudane Erato: but I presume that the city would have to pay for the embassy in Birka?
Kendra Bancroft: I could do this without City involvement true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: into promotion of N’burg in more places, and vice.versa.
Kendra Bancroft: But I would prefer to bring some of the N’burg Government workings to Birka –as I plan to have citizens of the Viking Village
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Let’s put the topic of creating a Foreign Ministry in the RA pipeline.

13
Kendra Bancroft: and would like the use of N’burg’s legal apparatus
Sudane Erato: yes… i agree
Kendra Bancroft: So that in fact –Birka would become a protectorate of N’burg
Kendra Bancroft: in exchange for a location here
Sudane Erato: omg!
Claude Desmoulins: That would give us mainland presence.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A protectorate!
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Clause
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Claude
Sudane Erato: what will it cost???
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow… that is really wonderful 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: This is what needs hashing out
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: how many people live there, Kendra??
Kendra Bancroft: But I’d like to implement N’burg’s deed system in Birka
Kendra Bancroft: none yet
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t wish to begin until I know that I have N’burg support
Claude Desmoulins: On a tangent we had talked about installing notary desks here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Ok. Wrong question ? how many are able to live there?
Kendra Bancroft: There is room for about 8 citizens in Birka
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, you see, that’ll earn them a vote on the RA!
Kendra Bancroft: If I did this in Isenland instead –I’d say 20 max
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we’ll have a representative from Birka… hehe
Kendra Bancroft: But I wish to start small
Claude Desmoulins: Or would Birka have their own RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With just 8 people??
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe even direct democracy (town hall meetings) with only 8
Diderot Mirabeau: maybe both .. that’s how we treat protectorates in my country
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Hmm. Well.
Kendra Bancroft: Birka would run as it’s own Artist’s Guild essentially and use N’burg’s SC and RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew, that needs much more thought.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m all for the whole concept, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: The covenant rules will all apply –except it’s Viking themed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s no problem at all.
Sudane Erato: it certainly is interesting…
Kendra Bancroft: It’s aim is to take over Funadama Island
Kendra Bancroft: haha
Diderot Mirabeau: by pillage and plunder 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We already have two covenants in N’burg, and the proposal today demanded many more!
Kendra Bancroft: well —yeah
Kendra Bancroft: But I want to investigate this mostly as a way to test whether N’burg’s set-up is franchisable
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn supports that idea completely 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I think if we wish to do this –it’s best to get the bugs out on a small level
Kendra Bancroft: Hence –Birka
Sudane Erato: interesting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: I’m interested , why don’t you draw up a fleshed out proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: The ultimate goal is for Birka to one day become an Island SIM
Kendra Bancroft: but again –start small
Kendra Bancroft: and I’d prefer to stay on the main grid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More accounting for the Guild ? now, add an extra cost centre, or whatever it’s called over there… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, kendra.

14
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, it’ll give future citizens a *choice*.
Claude Desmoulins: Especially as to the RA question, are the Birkese full citizens,. or does Birka have a set number of RA seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. some may not like private islands, or the bavarian theme…
Kendra Bancroft: Needless to say there will be one N’burg building in Birka to serve as an trading post/Embassy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that should be *the* question, Claude!
Kendra Bancroft: As I say –for the moment, Birka would be under the RA and SC of N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A protectorate ? a federation ? a confederation ? a union ? or a province?
Kendra Bancroft: and function as it’s own Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn is delighted!
Kendra Bancroft: a colony really
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A COLONY!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Sudane Erato: slave labor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, but do citizens in Birka voter in our election….
Kendra Bancroft: uhm –No
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a good question
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say no
Flyingroc Chung: why not full citizenship?
Claude Desmoulins: …..or do they have their own election for one or two seats in our RA
Kendra Bancroft: They have voice in their Guild elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m seeing Prokofy’s next post: “Now the left-wing terrorists of Neualtenburg became Socialist Imperialists ? they are setting COLONIES in the mainland, for God’s sake! What will come next???”
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: hahahahha
Kendra Bancroft: yes –prok will have a field day with this
Diderot Mirabeau: but how myuch of the Neualtenburg model are you then testing for franchiseability if you do not export the democracy part outside the guild system?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They should be citizens, and vote for the RA, get appointed to the SC
Kendra Bancroft: As Birka grows –it can cover the remaining brances on Independance
Diderot Mirabeau: fair enough .. you’ve got to start somewhere
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, bring it back in more detail and we’ll hash out the specifics.
Kendra Bancroft: But it’s size would limit that for now
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: make it manageable
Sudane Erato: I agree Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes yes
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –I’ll draw up a proposal for next week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing….
Kendra Bancroft: Though I might have Nisse make the presentation 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Even though there’s no money to expand right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, one of the agenda points for the SC to philosophise about in the next few weeks will be the concept of “citizenship in Neualtenburg”
Flyingroc Chung: I wonder if this equires a consti amendment
Kendra Bancroft: as he will be the “face” of Birka
Diderot Mirabeau: Nisse … lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or should we talk about the “Neualtenburg federation”? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We could still start the process of planning.

15
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Confederatio Neualtenburgia.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just like Switzerland and Lichtenstein 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Perhaps the proposal should be made to the SC first?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well.
Claude Desmoulins: Have you read my forum post on expansion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC does not make the amendments, thogh
Kendra Bancroft: No –but they are needed to help forge the status of a Birka citizen under N’burg governance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes yes.
Kendra Bancroft: Birka, like most viking villages would essentially be a corporatist oligarchy under the leadership of a chieftain (analogius to the Gildemeister)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sorry, Claude, I think I’m well behind your posts 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Unless that status is made explicit by the RA when this thing is set up.
Sudane Erato: I must leave in 10 min
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Sc can help.
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, I think what needs to be made clear is what sort of representation Birka citizens would have in nburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and what sorts of responsabilities, etc
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –but that’s for N’burg to hash out
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be giving you the mechanics of Birka
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: then there is also the related problem of what sanctions nburg can mete out to birka citizens… for example, do the expulsion rules apply?
Kendra Bancroft: Birka is at this point an empty village in search of mechanism
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Roc –they would –that’s the point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Claude Desmoulins: Dropped an expansion notecard onthe penguin.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think that’s workable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah thank you Claude!
Kendra Bancroft: essentially I’d like it to be extra real estate for N’burg
Claude Desmoulins: There’s no reason we couldn’t invite proposals for the second sim before we commit $
Kendra Bancroft: so pushing for a vote would perhaps be a movement in Birka
Kendra Bancroft: but one that N’burg won’t grant lightly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hmm can’t get your notecard, Claude)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since you’ve mentioned the 2nd sim
Sudane Erato: i can’t either
Kendra Bancroft: This could prove to be an excellent way to hash out 2nd SIM details
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure if you have seen that last post of Melanie’s
Sudane Erato: Melina, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes ? sorry, I stand corrected!
Sudane Erato: Moomf Murray is selling a sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She basically pointed out that there are more people selling 2nd hand sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: but we knew there is a market, right?
Kendra Bancroft: I think there will always be a market for used sims
Sudane Erato: graet!
Sudane Erato: got it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d say we should postpone that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah drats ? sorry Claude, I have to go off Busy mode!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There.
Flyingroc Chung: yay for the marketing part, claude
Sudane Erato: folks… I’ll have to leave….

16
Sudane Erato: and either take the recorder
Kendra Bancroft: Okay, Gildemeister 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There’s no reason we couldn’t seek proposals now.
Sudane Erato: or show someone how to turn it off
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Claude Desmoulins: Go aheads and take it. We won’t do any more business.
Kendra Bancroft: Sudane –let;s set up a meeting soon so we can hash out the Chamber of Commerce stuff
Sudane Erato: so we are adjourned?
Flyingroc Chung: the proposal should include the cost of building the sim, yes?
Sudane Erato: yes Kendra!
Claude Desmoulins: Same time next week.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right 🙂
The meeting closed at 16:58 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 01, 2006

The meeting opened at 15:18 SLT

Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get started.
Claude Desmoulins: I have a RL event in acouple of minutes that will require a brief recess.
Claude Desmoulins: Touch the document box for Agenda and bills.
Pendari Lorentz: no worries Claude.. =)
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, can you start with a Gilde/treasury report?
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome Clint.
Sudane Erato: ahh… not much to report on the Treasury side…
Sudane Erato: about to close out Jan…
Sudane Erato: on the Gilde side
Sudane Erato: I’ve been in touch with Zarf
Sudane Erato: but we haven’t met up yet
Sudane Erato: thats regarding the Notary system
Sudane Erato: thats about it…
Sudane Erato: most of the effort went into the proposals
Claude Desmoulins: % minute recess, please.
Pendari Lorentz: % = 5 I bet ya a linden
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Somone please holler at me in an hour so I can collect a test.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: its 3:23
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, Anything to report from the SC meeting?
Pendari Lorentz: since we are on a break.. I have to say.. Aliasi!! I LOVE that outfit! =)
Aliasi Stonebender: thankee, pendari. as for the SC meeting
Pendari Lorentz: oops.. are we not on break?
Claude Desmoulins: It was a very short break. Did anyone actually leave?
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: we need an RA confirmation of several proposed SC members.
Claude Desmoulins: I had Dianne and Flyingroc. Does that count as several?
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: well, okay, technically, several is more than two, but that works.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: depends how many fingers you’ve got perhaps 😉
Pendari Lorentz: per the constitution, they need to be present at an RA meeting so that they can be questioned (if there are any questions).. I see flyingroc here, but afk.. so we could talk with him when he gets back?
Aliasi Stonebender: that would probably be best, yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: and we’ll have to drag dianne in here when we can.
Sudane Erato: he’s making curry
Pendari Lorentz: we could always catch Dianne at a future meeting, and I’d do a special meeting if it would fit her schedule better
Pendari Lorentz: meaning, I would show up to a special one
Sudane Erato: I don’t think she knew she was to be here
Diderot Mirabeau: here’s Garnet … hi 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: post it in the forum, perhaps, yes.
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Claude is LRA and would schedule =)
Garnet Psaltery: hello
Claude Desmoulins: The SDF is AWOL tonight 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: hey Garnet!
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll talk to FR when he gets back from the curry.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything on the website RFP?
Pendari Lorentz: most of the SDF have a hard time with this day/time for meetings.. but I/we know you are working on being available for weekends Claude =)
Sudane Erato: exactly where did we stand with that?
Claude Desmoulins: The web site or the meetingd?
Sudane Erato: hehe… the site
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn put a document on the wiki, but it’s more of a process than a spec.
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Claude Desmoulins: We probably need to move to starting to put together lists of required/desired features.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: the personal accounts part of that I was going to draft
Pendari Lorentz: that would be good!
Flyingroc Chung: I’m lagging something fierce… lemme relog
Pendari Lorentz: ok Flyingroc.. good luck!
Pendari Lorentz: was an update today.. I expected issues (or was it yesterday? same difference i suppose)
Sudane Erato: hehe… today
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s also try to figure out what needs to come first so we can do this in stages.
Sudane Erato: well… I have an urgent need
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think it’s ready to vote on yet.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes?
Pendari Lorentz: do what in stages? the Website?
Sudane Erato: that the updated land data appear
Sudane Erato: Roc has made a page of it
Sudane Erato: but its not yet linked to the site
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s simple enough to do, SUdane.
Sudane Erato: I’m sure it is
Claude Desmoulins: You can get to it from the front page.
Aliasi Stonebender: you can make off-site links on the wiki.
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, did you already do that, claude?
Pendari Lorentz: do what in stages? the website?
Sudane Erato: but I am totally web code ignorant
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’t but someone did
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, the website.
Aliasi Stonebender: wiki doesn’t use webcode, but it’s own simplified formatting, and there’s a great big help file when you edit. 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: thanks! just want to be on the same page =)
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, good.
Sudane Erato: well.. Roc’s page is a scripted thing
Sudane Erato: it goes out and grabs data from my text file
Sudane Erato: whenever anyone acceses it
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe the first stage should be to recreate the functionality from Ulrika’s old website.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: definitely
Pendari Lorentz: I am a director of ecommerce in my RL business, I know about web coding.. I will be happy to help, but do not have the time to be the main person doing it. I’m sorry 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: If I can find a few hours, I can reimplement the land thing in PHP/MySQL
Pendari Lorentz: that would be great Claude!
Sudane Erato: we have a lot of volunteers…
Sudane Erato: just need someone to coordinate
Claude Desmoulins: As to the meeting times 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: that would be good… I’d help more, but my web design skill dates from the late 90s. Nowadays I rely on intermediate site software like wiki and blogs.
Claude Desmoulins: The monitor for my Ubuntu box is supposed to show up tomorrow.
Pendari Lorentz: I write webpages in notepad.. I’m hardcore
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Sudane Erato: haha
Claude Desmoulins: Dreamweaver
Claude Desmoulins: Can we refer the website back to the wiki. Maybe someone can put up a page where people can volunteer to do a piece.
Pendari Lorentz: I think that is a good idea! people have volunteered, it is just a matter of saying yes do it! =)
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Who wants to be traffic cop?
Pendari Lorentz: no comment
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Does the RA need to approve the DB structure?
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put something up this week.
Sudane Erato: it certainly didnt the first one
Flyingroc Chung: shouldnt the RA just authorize a web-team to do all the web dev?
Sudane Erato: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: I think that’s more a Guild area… the RA says “do this thing”, the Guild handles the details mostly.
Claude Desmoulins: Did we sort of have that last week?
Sudane Erato: i mean, the guild could too
Pendari Lorentz: I would think that is more an SC issue.. the RA would proably only step in if it required funding or in some way “disturbed” the city
Pendari Lorentz: oh.. yes. Guild as well! SC and Guild on that one
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn , I and someone got volunteered to work on the spec.
Aliasi Stonebender: but regardless, someone had to do it.
Aliasi Stonebender: *has
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: its the one area i am really ignorant
Sudane Erato: but I will try to shanghai people
Claude Desmoulins: SUdane, Why don’t you, I and Gwyn bounce some e-mails back and forth.
Sudane Erato: ok… good
Pendari Lorentz: Like I stated, I’ll be happy to help on that where I can.. but I do that all day long for my work, so I don’t want to burn myself out.. hehe
Flyingroc Chung: pen, dont you do this irl, draw up specs for websites?
Sudane Erato: why not make up an email list
Sudane Erato: the bounce it amoung all of us
Pendari Lorentz: yes Flyingroc.. hehe.. just include me on the list.. I’ll be happy to offer advice where I can if needed =)
Claude Desmoulins: OK . IM me if you want to be on the web site list.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Preferably after I’m out of world so I’ll have an email record.
Claude Desmoulins: Now…..
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: dang.. I just Imed him
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Claude Desmoulins: FR’s confirmation hearing.
Flyingroc Chung: uh oh
Pendari Lorentz: yay Flyingroc!
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions for the nominee?
Pendari Lorentz: ack! I have a question, but my daughter is trying to kill our cat.. I’ll be right back!! so sorry!!
Pendari Lorentz: afk
Claude Desmoulins: Any _Other_ questions? 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: I cannot comment on that because this issue may be brought before the court!
Flyingroc Chung: heh, sry, just practicing
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Flyingroc Chung: seriously though… I’m glad to answer any questions
Claude Desmoulins: Mr. Chung, do you have any judicial experience (star chambers, kangaroo courts, etc.)?
Flyingroc Chung: not really…
Flyingroc Chung: unless refereeing fights among my siblings count
Claude Desmoulins: What’s ypur understanding of the role of the SC?
Flyingroc Chung: Well, the constitution says that the SC is the judicial body that looks at the constitutionality of the laws. It also acts as a policing body, on constitutional matters.
Flyingroc Chung: I think originally, it is thought up more as an academic body
Flyingroc Chung: practiaclly though… I’d say it’s mostly there to check the excesses of the RA & the guild, and moderate the forums.
Flyingroc Chung: not that the RA and the guild are excessive
Flyingroc Chung: yet
Flyingroc Chung: haha
Claude Desmoulins: Pen, did you have something?
Pendari Lorentz: back.. so sorry
Aliasi Stonebender: (I’m not asking questions, since, afterall, I was part of the SC that nominated him.)
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. Flyingroc
Pendari Lorentz: one of your main duties as an SC member is moderation of the group forum
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all 🙂
Sudane Erato: well!
Pendari Lorentz: one time in the past you were moderated by an SC member..
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Gwyn 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: ah yes
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Gwyn. Did Eugene know about the meeting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Eugene continues to have his login problems….
Pendari Lorentz: do you feel as an SC member you would moderate fairly and within the constitution guidelines. Even if at the time the Consitution guidelines did not suit your beliefs>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure.
Pendari Lorentz: welcome Gwyn!! *hugs*
Flyingroc Chung: I am not sure that the constitution guidelines do not suit my beliefs
Pendari Lorentz: I’m not asking if they do.. hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: hm, the constitution is the law of the land. And I will try to follow the constitution… now if the constitution did not follow my own beliefs… there is recourse for that
Flyingroc Chung: which is to seek a change in the constitution
Flyingroc Chung: but barring the change… well, honestly if something stands aquarely against my belief, and I had to act either for the constitution, or against my own belief.
Flyingroc Chung: …
Flyingroc Chung: I’d quit
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Pendari Lorentz: honestly
Pendari Lorentz: ?
Flyingroc Chung: I mean there are compromises that can be reached. for example, if there is a case where I do not believe I can be impartial, I can recuse myself
Flyingroc Chung: or if there is a court decision that I dont agree with, I can write a dissent
Pendari Lorentz: the *main* duty of the SC is to uphold the constitution as it currently stands. I can very much support someone that would abide by that while working on changes. But I cannot support someone who would dismiss the active constitution for
Pendari Lorentz: “their own reasons”
Sudane Erato: i don’t think Roc said that
Pendari Lorentz: clarify then? because personally I think you would make a great SC memeber.. but this is an important thought =)
Claude Desmoulins: For that matter, the Gildemeister is the only official who is individually empowered.
Claude Desmoulins: Other branches work collectively.
Pendari Lorentz: I swear I’m not picking on you Flyingroc.. I asked Aliasi a rough question too.. haha..
Flyingroc Chung: I am not dismissing the constitution… I think that while flawed it is essentially a good document. Now, if, for example, as a pre hypothtical, the RA passes a constitutional amendment that allows torture… I’d rather quit the SC than acquiesce.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: the SC can veto any amendement.. so that situation would not happen
Claude Desmoulins: Huh???
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: as per our current constitution yes
Flyingroc Chung: just a hypothetical 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. let me try and rephrase
Claude Desmoulins: No. I see it.
Claude Desmoulins: This document is truly a well intentioned mess, isn’t it 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Flyingroc, the number one duty of the SC is to uphold the constitution as it stands in that moment in time. Do you feel you can do that (while helping to change things within the current laws)?
Flyingroc Chung: Yes, I think I can.
Pendari Lorentz: woohoo! I like him =)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I call the question,
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of Mr. Chung’s nomination , say Aye.
Pendari Lorentz: Aye =)
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome to the SC, Roc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hooray 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Next….
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Pendari Lorentz: yay! =)
Flyingroc Chung: shoulds someone stand up and filibuster?
Flyingroc Chung: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: haha
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn will teach you the secret handshake later on.
Garnet Psaltery: You ain’t filling my bust
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: ROFL Garnt
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh I will
Flyingroc Chung: Thanks for the approval, it is a great honor. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I have to recuse myself on the school bill since I’m a trustee… which leaves us w/o a quorum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: However, we may discuss.
Flyingroc Chung: do I get a decoder ring
Flyingroc Chung: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Claude Desmoulins: The bill is 4-5
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: this bill has been preposed in various forms in the past
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it has.
Pendari Lorentz: I cannot remember a time when anyone was opposed to it happening.. there was only ever a question of if the city should pay for it
Claude Desmoulins: If you’ve followed the forums. Sudane objects to the land fee waiver provision.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: so… i guess I would call nto question the 20% discount
Claude Desmoulins: My position is that if the city wants a citizen tuition discount, it should be willing to give up something with measurable monetary value.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Sudane Erato: and i agree with that
Aliasi Stonebender: As do I, to be honest. It’s one thing for totally public land – anyone can use the church, biergarten, etc, etc, etc.
Pendari Lorentz: Education events are on the rise in SL.. both in need and want. I could be a good promotional time to really focus on this
Pendari Lorentz: I = it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on the focus… actually, we’re just missing right now a community roundtable where people are going to discuss a future of SL where *all events will be paid*
Claude Desmoulins: If the RA wants to drop the discount, the trustees will pay the land fee and we’ll go on our merry way as essentially a private institution.
Pendari Lorentz: woah.. that went over my head Claude
Sudane Erato: thats what i wopuld support
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, Gwyn, and there’s that “Arcadia” contest/expo featuring “pay to play” games.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Aliasi
Pendari Lorentz: drop what discount?
Aliasi Stonebender: the tuition discount, pend.
Pendari Lorentz: do what private institution?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the 20% discount on tuition fees
Sudane Erato: the 20% discount to NBurg residents
Claude Desmoulins: It’s under Land in the bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I’m not a RA member any more… I can always suggest that an alternative to the 20% discount
Aliasi Stonebender: I could see a discount to the land fee, since our land fees are made to have a little slack in them, are they not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would be the city granting scolarships
Flyingroc Chung: I suggested on the forums that the city could have a idfferent way of supporting the schoo: a scholarship fund.
Pendari Lorentz: I guess I missed the discount thing.. sorry 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, what FR said 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: scholarships sound dandy too.
Sudane Erato: one way or another these plans have the city supporting the school
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: a scholarship fund could become an instrument for the city to devise incentives to promote city-beneficial activities
Sudane Erato: so… thats the way it should be decided
Pendari Lorentz: ok Sudane.. that then means, yet again we are voting on if the city should pay for this education program?
Aliasi Stonebender: heh.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Partially support” 🙂
Sudane Erato: true
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, there’s a fair difference between “we pay for it all”, “we ‘land-grant’ it”, “we offer student loans”, etc.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have no sign of Kendra or Eugene, how about let’s table and discuss in the forums unless one of them shows up.
Pendari Lorentz: well.. I was always in favor of that myself, but I’ll be up for discussion again if needed =)
Pendari Lorentz: /nod claude
Claude Desmoulins: Next. Constitution
Pendari Lorentz: *whistles innocently*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What we need first is a good collection on the wiki of all relavent SC decisions and RA bills.
Claude Desmoulins: Pen 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I will be happy to help with that =)
Claude Desmoulins: I’m too new to have most of the stuff.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the problem is, almost everything is on the forums really.
Pendari Lorentz: I’m a ratpacker.. I even still have my newbie cabin from Sept 203 :-p
Pendari Lorentz: 2003 even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just that they are terribly inefficient to search 😛
Claude Desmoulins: ‘If people have propsed amendments , let’s throw them up in the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Pen 😀
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why we need the documents with legal force on the wiki.
Claude Desmoulins: Save the forums for the proposals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn certainly agrees!
Sudane Erato: I probably have all the penguins 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll put up everything I have.. just at least give me over the weekend when I’ll have more time =)
Sudane Erato: from each meeting
Sudane Erato: but not the decisions
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: What do you mean, not the decisions?
Sudane Erato: well, the penguin s held the bills themselves
Sudane Erato: but the transcripts would hold the decisions
Pendari Lorentz: /nod
Sudane Erato: and then Pen collated everything
Claude Desmoulins: Can you two sort that out so we know what’s now in force?
Sudane Erato: we can try… i think ultimately Pen has it all
Pendari Lorentz: I’m sure we can =)
Claude Desmoulins: Ok.
Sudane Erato: but we can compare and contrast
Pendari Lorentz: /nod Sudane
Claude Desmoulins: Next….
Claude Desmoulins: Zoning
Claude Desmoulins: The draft map is behind you.
Claude Desmoulins: It shows the proposed school location.
Diderot Mirabeau: Claude you need to remember to collect your test results
Diderot Mirabeau: it’s ben an hour now
Pendari Lorentz: Zoning to me is a guild issue.. I’m not sure why we as the RA are talking about it? can someone fill me in?
Diderot Mirabeau: *been
Claude Desmoulins: Done.
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks, though.
Diderot Mirabeau: np
Sudane Erato: well… we’ve been tossing the issue back and forth
Sudane Erato: the issue is zoning as in craeting zones…
Sudane Erato: and then…
Sudane Erato: what shall the use be,,, vis a vis collection of revenues
Flyingroc Chung: The RA sets the taxation rate…
Pendari Lorentz: wouldn’t that be a project we would commision the guild to figure out and present though?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane,
Sudane Erato: the guild could figure that out as part of a budget
Claude Desmoulins: Do you want to redraw the draft map?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm overall, setting the layout of the city, looks like a RA thingy. Then the specific details is up to the Guild.
Pendari Lorentz: since the guild decides the standards, it would make sense they would decide on zoning
Sudane Erato: well… thats … hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: the RA should decide the principles
Claude Desmoulins: The problem is, what are the zones for?…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree ? that would be like a city council letting the construction companies building what they wished.
Sudane Erato: the guild can do the “house by house”
Claude Desmoulins: If it’s about land use., its Guild.
Claude Desmoulins: If it’s about creating a multitiered taxation system, it’s RA.
Sudane Erato: ok… I’m hapy to take that responsibility
Pendari Lorentz: ahh.. good point Gwyneth.. we tell them what we want, they tell us how much it will cost.. I’m still getting used to the simplicity of that
Sudane Erato: the Guildhall is consistent with that
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, Pen.
Claude Desmoulins: My impression was it’s the latter, primarily.
Sudane Erato: hehe.. yes
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. carry on.. haha.. I’m with ya now =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The RA, would, conversely have the authority to set land fee rates on a plot by plot basis with the Guildmeister’s consent.
Sudane Erato: well… we need a policy…
Claude Desmoulins: What I see this bill doing is setting up land fee rate zones with the rates TBD (by the RA)
Sudane Erato: this is obviously a confused issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes indeed.
Sudane Erato: yes. Claude
Sudane Erato: that I would agree with
Sudane Erato: althou
Sudane Erato: I don’t think there is consesnus that there should be varying land rates
Claude Desmoulins: In some sense the RA and guild need to (in practice) agree on the zones for this to work.
Aliasi Stonebender: although it’s a natural extension of the current situation.
Sudane Erato: yes… it is
Claude Desmoulins: If there’s not that consensus, how are we going to raise revenue?
Sudane Erato: the way we are now
Sudane Erato: which is fairly even revenue base
Sudane Erato: the only difefrenvce being in City/out of City
Pendari Lorentz: raising revenue is the job of the RA… The guild will work if paid.. but they will boycott if not
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: So, RA, how are we going to raise revenue?
Claude Desmoulins: My impression from last week was that sales tax is dead.
Pendari Lorentz: so basically yes, we need to come up with a plan, present it to the Guild and get their cost proposal
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, How soon can you have a budget so we know the revenue needs?
Pendari Lorentz: raise revenue? well.. the RA is tasked with promoting the city
Sudane Erato: ahh… I will try that just after the month gets closed
Pendari Lorentz: if we get bodies in, then we raise money.. if we ask the guild to fill the shops with merchandise, we get shoppers
Sudane Erato: I’ve been RL swamped
Sudane Erato: but it is essential
Sudane Erato: thast true Pen
Sudane Erato: thats one technique
Pendari Lorentz: so undrstandable about RL Sudane!!
Claude Desmoulins: I need the floor for a moment
Sudane Erato: to change nothing of the monthly fee system
Gwyneth Llewelyn raises hand ? it’s up to the RA to present a budget for the City, not for the Guild
Sudane Erato: I thought i would propose something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *not the Guild
Sudane Erato: as a friend 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Point taken.
Pendari Lorentz: /nod Gwyn and Sudane and Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: that was a killer nod haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I put out a skelatal budget proposal in the forums. Do you want me t oflush it our?
Claude Desmoulins: *out.
Sudane Erato: sure!
Pendari Lorentz: sure!
Claude Desmoulins: RA. What do you want the city to spend money on?
Pendari Lorentz: LOL
Pendari Lorentz: no way you get off that easy Claude.. you have to break it down =)
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I do have these plans for an orbital mind-control ray…
Claude Desmoulins: Here are my priorities.
Claude Desmoulins: 1. Web site
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: 2. Bond retirement
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: No.2 can come out of existing cash
Claude Desmoulins: If we manage a significant portion of #2 then we can talk about #3
Claude Desmoulins: Marketing budget.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: other sytmatic improvements…
Sudane Erato: systematic
Pendari Lorentz: I say we refer this to a vote in the forums/email.. I am undecided as of yet, and we have 2 RA members not present
Claude Desmoulins: for example?
Sudane Erato: the personnal accounts system
Sudane Erato: to hangle growth better
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t even have a draft budget.
Sudane Erato: handle
Claude Desmoulins: I was thinking of that as part of the web site.
Sudane Erato: I will try to assemble something
Sudane Erato: yes… it might be
Claude Desmoulins: This is why we need to get that web RFP out.
Sudane Erato: but it wasn’t
Sudane Erato: and it is rather different
Claude Desmoulins: At 6:45 we _will_ take a 5 minute recess. I have to do a RL fire drill.
Claude Desmoulins: sorry 4:45
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I was just going to say, I won’t be able to stay awake until 6:45 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I have to log off in 5 mins
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn and Roc, can you see me when we get done for a few min.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Then we lose quorum,
Claude Desmoulins: Gildehalle
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion.
Pendari Lorentz: Have to get my daughter through her night routine (I’m on eastern time zone
Sudane Erato: Kendra actually came up with the Guild hall idea
Pendari Lorentz: I’m sorry 🙁
Sudane Erato: as to its location
Claude Desmoulins: It’s OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally don’t like the idea of “under the Marktplatz”. The rest is perfect!
Sudane Erato: I feel its a great idea
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, where would you put it?
Pendari Lorentz: same here Gwyn! that was the only7 part I didn’t like
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At the Schloss…
Pendari Lorentz: /nod
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, although it would be nice to come up with some kind of use for the under-platz space at some point.
Sudane Erato: well… there are 2 primary uses for the space
Sudane Erato: one is to provide goods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With an innovative way to bring people there, say, by a chair lift, or a catapult…
Sudane Erato: for the citizens
Aliasi Stonebender: maybe Schloss = guildehall, under-platz = sandbox?
Sudane Erato: that could take a lot of space
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shhh Aliasi ? that’s for the Ancient Metaverse Order 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I thought that was were we would bury those who didn’t make the SC cut Aliasi?
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Claude Desmoulins: Since the Gildehall is a workspace, why not put the SC in the Schloss?
Sudane Erato: and the Schloss does not have a lot of space
Pendari Lorentz: lol Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s also a place for selling things…
Sudane Erato: also,,, a sandbox
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: and the sandbox, too would also want m2
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to vote or table?
Sudane Erato: theres simply a lot of ultility function to what is proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And prims as well, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: and the Schloss is better as a showplace location
Claude Desmoulins: Gotta go, back in 5.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “showplace”?
Sudane Erato: kendra feels very confident
Sudane Erato: that the prims can be kept down
Sudane Erato: the “Schloss” as a showplace
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I meant: for the sandbox.
Sudane Erato: right
Pendari Lorentz: alright ya’ll.. I really wish I could stay longer. Weekdays are rough. Glad I was able to stay logged in for this one though! hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And how would the Schloss be used as a showplace?
Sudane Erato: the warehouse and the sandbox are…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pen 🙂 Indeed!
Sudane Erato: warehousey
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Pendari
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… lol Sudane 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll talk with you all in emails and forum! was a great meeting! =)
Sudane Erato: great Pen!
Pendari Lorentz: be good.. and don’t do anything I would do
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Sudane Erato: hehe bye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye Pen 🙂 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: buhbye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thus silence falls in the Rathaus…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re back, Claude??? That was a *short* fire drill!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Guess not! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ‘murican efficiency.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Helped that the building wasn’t busy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooooh we could use that around here!
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s discuss the Platz.
Sudane Erato: well… I have spoken to many people
Sudane Erato: who would love to buy a lot on the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see there are new, more interesting plans/suggestions for the Platz… so, no rentals
Sudane Erato: obviously it is perceived
Sudane Erato: as very valuable
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: and just as obviously
Sudane Erato: we have our own value set to apply to activities there
Claude Desmoulins: I kind of liked the rental thing, at least as a pilot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: this is a proposal to implement something
Sudane Erato: the prob i have with rental
Sudane Erato: is two things
Gwyneth Llewelyn: accounting 🙂
Sudane Erato: one is the citizenship question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That worries me as well.
Sudane Erato: and two… is the definition of what the person gets
Sudane Erato: prims
Sudane Erato: land rights
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Why? – citizenship.
Claude Desmoulins: If we decide (and the SC concurs) that renters have political rights, that’s that, isn’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is a “renter”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 people pay each a bit of the rental, to share the same space. Who is a citizen then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or 2 pay, but 3 use it.
Claude Desmoulins: POint taken.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then comes the issue of sub-renting.
Diderot Mirabeau: But if the city is the only one allowed to rent out property surely it could set the conditions for rental .. ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right. So, only one person rents. The others don’t have rights at all. Is that fair?
Diderot Mirabeau: such as “we will only rent out property to one person, who will get political rights, may not share the lease nor sub-let it”
Claude Desmoulins: The school is setting precedent for how we would handle ownership groups.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then comes the “size” of the rental. I just wish to rent 4 prims for a single vendor. Am I now a citizen?
Sudane Erato: but the School will “own” the land!
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: there will be a deed
Sudane Erato: and the School will incur obligations
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the problem is on defining the threshold and say: from this point on, you’re a citizen
Diderot Mirabeau: if we feel that it is not sufficient for the city to exercise control by ways of deciding on the parceling of land and on the conditions of a lease ..
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve been of the opinion that someone renting solely for a vendor really shouldn’t be a voting citizen, anymore than I’m a citizen of Japan because I sell something there.
Diderot Mirabeau: then I think that a discussion on the threshold would need to address the worst case scenario of someone trying to game the system to get political influence
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s my thing. If we do this on the platz and something goes _wrong_
Sudane Erato: that could be with the purchase of any bit of land
Aliasi Stonebender: They should have the right to protection of the law, due process, etc, etc, etc
Diderot Mirabeau: yes but it doesn’t really happen now does it .. because most parcels aren’t really 4 prims AFAIK
Claude Desmoulins: if the person owns the land, everything has to slog through the courts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, you don’t have this problem, Diderot, because parcels have a minimum size…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you’d have to define minimum size on rentals as well.
Claude Desmoulins: At least as we start this, I want those merchants on the platz to come up for a review from somebody (probably Gilde)
Sudane Erato: I feel strongly you’d have to rent the entire m2… not just the top floor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, the *real* difference, legally speaking, is that since the City has a monopoly on renting, you cannot transfer your “rental entitlement”, unlike parcel deed ownership.
Sudane Erato: well… Kendra would be happy to provide that service
Diderot Mirabeau: I personally believe that the danger of spoiling the Marktplatz aesthetics are greater than the danger of abuse by granting citizenship with the only restrictions being those imposed through the lease conditions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, it’s the other way round, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “spoiling” is controlled by the Guild.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that doesn’t worry me at all.
Sudane Erato: Thus the covenant tailored for these lots
Diderot Mirabeau: but for a democracy how can having more citizens to participate in the decision making process pose a problem?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It depends on the *rights* based on different backgrounds 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, either these “rights” come from elsewhere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and land/rentals/not doing anything at all are untied from “citizenship”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or we’ll have 1st class citizens with more rights than 2nd class citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that, I think, is something I’m pretty much against.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, let’s keep somethign in mind here
Claude Desmoulins: Before we sell or rent anything, we have to decide what we’re doing with the land fee structure, too.
Aliasi Stonebender: Neualtenburg is not a real-world country. We aren’t depriving people of rights for thesimple mistake of being born here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol
Aliasi Stonebender: Nobody is jumping into it without both eyes open.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: still
Sudane Erato: there is the issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I actually think that N’burg could revert back to its original form of defining citizenship: simply a desire to “be part of it”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, that way, buying/renting/doing nothing would be your personal choice.
Claude Desmoulins: What a mess that would make of elections.
Sudane Erato: welll… the problem is that the City now owns a sim
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d be for that, Gwyn, except, in many ways, we still have the “who’s going to pay for it” issue.
Sudane Erato: that worked fine when there was little $$ obligations
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeedy.
Sudane Erato: but it would not now
Aliasi Stonebender: by linking citizenship to financial contribution to the city (through land-owning) we assure that.
Diderot Mirabeau: have them pay citizen tax then
Claude Desmoulins: At least we now have a clear definition of who votes and who doesn’t
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes yes. I was just proposing the “alternative” scenario
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because under the current model, people paying for the City have equal rights.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, someone paying for a rental …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … would have one right *less*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is the ability to transfer their “rentee’s rights”.
Diderot Mirabeau: yes and people with large properties pay more than people with smaller properties yet have only one vote .. do they have fewer rights?
Kendra Bancroft: sorry folks –I’m with the flu
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Kendra)
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: good evening Kendra
Claude Desmoulins: HEre’s our quorum.
Sudane Erato: finally the SDF shows up 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh well, Neualtenburg is not a plutocracy, Diderot 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it’s an interesting model.
Flyingroc Chung: get well soon, kendra
Kendra Bancroft: I’m in real bad shape haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ouch Kendra ? sorry to hear that 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. There’s a pretty big gap between “you need to have some kind of “investment” in the City to be allowed a vote” and “he who has the most gold makes the rules”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pretty big, yes, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: as it is, you can be a citizen by just owning a single fachwerk plot in town for practically nothing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: I was just trying to illustrate that renters are not necessarily second grade citizens just because they cannot transfer their lease rights
Aliasi Stonebender: heck, you could technically divvy up 16m plots for people.
Claude Desmoulins: The issue here is, do we allow rentals- and do we give renters, if they exist, citizenship rights.
Kendra Bancroft: soon all of Neualtenburg will be awash in the lavender menace of the ALTENBURG GRUPPE BWAHAHAHAHA
Aliasi Stonebender: actually, that’s an interesting idea come ot think of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but they are, Diderot ? the point here is “equal rights”. After all, they have the same duties: paying their fees.
Sudane Erato: hehe… which is a mighration from the bill under discussion 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: what if we took one of the “prim land” plots
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s stay on topic here…. The platz.
Aliasi Stonebender: and split it into 16m plots, and, just as the current primland plots are reserved for in-city land owners
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: political rights are a seperate issue from rights of property
Aliasi Stonebender: hold on claude
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m getting to it!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: these special plots would be “linked” to the “rental stalls” on the platz.
Aliasi Stonebender: thus nicely sidestepping the issue.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I see.
Kendra Bancroft: interesting, Aliasi –I like it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they wouldn’t have to “own” land inside the Platz
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t like the idea of kiosks on the platz.
Sudane Erato: but if they get that tiny… what do they use for prims???
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that is a good solution, IMHO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prims don’t need to be tied to the land.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, much as, how we can now have any citizen place a vendor in the city’s general store.
Aliasi Stonebender: this would simply be an extension of that concept.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, under this bill what happens to the biergarten.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Sudane Erato: but thats what we’re doing
Aliasi Stonebender: The reason I propose this
Sudane Erato: I think it too should be sold…
Sudane Erato: but some….
Kendra Bancroft: Isn’t the Biergarten somewhat of a landmark at this point?
Sudane Erato: disagree
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: is I don’t see the reason for complicating things when we can simply use current structure, citizenship wise.
Sudane Erato: so it should be sold under a strict covenant
Claude Desmoulins: Question…..
Sudane Erato: no alterations without approval
Sudane Erato: I agree Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees as well with Aliasi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is there anyone here who believes than an appropriately strict covenant won’t be adequate to preserve the aesthetic and move out merchants if they don’t comply?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It *will* be adequate, yes.
Sudane Erato: I think it would be adequate
Diderot Mirabeau: no … the challenge is perhaps more the other way around .. do we risk detering people from renting a stall if the uncertainty is too great as to what they are allowed to do? Commerce after all favours predictability
Sudane Erato: yes, ture
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm yes
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, diderot, right now, if you rent from a mainland rental outfit, you have no guarantees.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: but I feel the most predictablity comes with ownership
Diderot Mirabeau: so in any case it’s still an improvement? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say it is, yes.
Flyingroc Chung: it’s an imporvement, because in nburg, you at least have some recourse if you think you’ve been wronged.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, FR.
Aliasi Stonebender: exactly, you can always take it to the courts here.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we preserve the Kaufhaus, even if we make it smaller?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it’s a *real* recourse… not a wishy-washy wishful thinking thingy 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: then certainly it would not need be a deterrance .. on the contrary in fact if we stressed in the covenant that it also protected the rights of the merchant
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course ? and merchants will be Guild members, so they’d be able to influence the covenant directly… and so on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the Kaufhaus
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: also –we could make it both easier on merchants and easier to stay in coveneant by supplying our own vendors with an established look –our own store decor to choose from, etc –that’s in essence the main purpose of the Chamber of Commerce –
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understood the Guildhall proposal…
Kendra Bancroft: to facilitate merchants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … it would be “assimilated” by the Kaufhaus?
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Gwyn
Sudane Erato: which is the Kaufhaus?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, the Guildhall would assimilate the Kaufhaus… 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –the Guildhall would
Claude Desmoulins: My uderstanding is that the guildhall would assimilate the Warenhaus.
Sudane Erato: the genral store
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: which also frees up the platz for increased commerce
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh, Kaufhaus, Warenhaus…. 🙂
Sudane Erato: the same?
Claude Desmoulins: They’re different.
Claude Desmoulins: Warenhaus – NBurg Home supplies.
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, they are different ? one is for “city souvenirs”, the other for Guild members wishing a vendor. In any case, we’d have more space for shops
Claude Desmoulins: Kaufhaus= Any citizen can put *a* vendor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: that was in informal arrangement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: it was never determined by act
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But with the Guildhall, it will be “formalized”.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: I meant the Department Store..
Claude Desmoulins: I think it’s important to keep one platz store where any Gilde member can have 1 vendor, to encourage small scale citizen commerce.
Sudane Erato: the Kaufhaus?
Kendra Bancroft: I agree, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that abreement 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *agreement
Claude Desmoulins: I propose the following amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack. And I’m sorry, but I have to leave you…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be following the transcript with interest 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: 1) The Biergarten is added to the list of excluded properties. (We can revisit it later if we want)
Sudane Erato: bye Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye all!)
Claude Desmoulins: 2) One Store front on the platz proper is held by Die Gilde. Each Gilde member may have one vendor there.
Claude Desmoulins: 3)No kiosks on the platz proper, you have to buy a store.
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, what about the three plots off the Platz extension (Sudane’ – Amulius- Is the third one owned?
Sudane Erato: yes.. Garnet owns it now
Sudane Erato: they should be included.. i think
Flyingroc Chung: can I reserve a store on the platz now?
Sudane Erato: they are included in your zoning map
Flyingroc Chung: 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Oh? Garnet is back?
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Kendra Bancroft: excellent!!!!!
Claude Desmoulins: But your bill excludes currently held properties, no?
Sudane Erato: i didn’t address it
Sudane Erato: i’m open on that subject…
Sudane Erato: since the three you mention
Sudane Erato: are the only currently held ones
Claude Desmoulins: I read it as doing so. It also grandfathers existing private owners out of the new zone.
Kendra Bancroft: well –I should take out the Steinzeug next to the Biergarten
Claude Desmoulins: Who owns the third one?
Kendra Bancroft: that’s an informal arrangement anyway
Sudane Erato: Garnet
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to grandfather existing owners out of the new zone?
Sudane Erato: i’m not sure I understand what you mean
Claude Desmoulins: Bills says……
Diderot Mirabeau: expropriation?
Sudane Erato: the issue is whether to apply a new covenant toi their deed?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the other way around
Diderot Mirabeau: exemption
Sudane Erato: right…
Sudane Erato: “not” to apply
Claude Desmoulins: all land surrounding the MarketPlatz? which is not already privately owned…(be sold) and….
Claude Desmoulins: the resulting new parcels be identified as a new zoning district,
Sudane Erato: ahhh… yes
Sudane Erato: the “which is not already…”
Claude Desmoulins: Ergo, existing parcels are not part of the new zone/
Sudane Erato: I’m open about
Sudane Erato: but yes… thats the way it is written
Sudane Erato: sorry… i forgot 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: So, do we want to grandfather Garnet, Amulius and the Gildemeister:)
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m for it.
Kendra Bancroft: I also own land on the platz
Claude Desmoulins: Can I amend my amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: OK, Kendra too
Sudane Erato: well… you don’t really kendra
Kendra Bancroft: yes –I really do
Sudane Erato: that shop is techincally city-owned
Kendra Bancroft: right next to the rathaus
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: the corner
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be moving the Steinzeug to that corner
Sudane Erato: sorry… my brain is frying
Sudane Erato: yes… great!
Claude Desmoulins: 4) At such time as a current owner sells his or her Platz land, it will enter the new zone.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Sudane Erato: i think all 4 are fine
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment say aye.
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to the bill itself, further discussion
Claude Desmoulins: Am I correct that the aesthetic and financial details of the new covenant are at Gilde discretion?
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Sudane Erato: well… we will certaimnly write them
Claude Desmoulins: Other questions or discusiion?
Sudane Erato: the other entities can determine if they need to pass on them
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sure the RA would like a consult, but I dont’ think we need to approve them.
Sudane Erato: thats fine…. lets just see what they contain…
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to vote now, or go seven day?
Sudane Erato: and if theres any bneed for discussion… we can have it
Claude Desmoulins: The bills says there are aesthetic and financial requirements, but doesn’t specify them.
Sudane Erato: no
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m fine with voting now, but if the others need to hash it out more…
Sudane Erato: the exact wording of the covenent awaiting this decision
Sudane Erato: awaited
Kendra Bancroft: My vote won’t change after any discussion
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Is there anyone who has serious problems with the bill as it now stands?
Flyingroc Chung: not me
Aliasi Stonebender: not I.
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra?
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: not me neither
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote then.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor say aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Flyingroc Chung: whew
Sudane Erato: great!
Claude Desmoulins: Next, back to Guidhall.
Sudane Erato: this could be one of our most important actions
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn had prim issues.
Kendra Bancroft: As I’ve said –prim usage is minimal on this
Claude Desmoulins: Did someone get to address those?
Kendra Bancroft: we want huge space to build in
Kendra Bancroft: so prims would be intentionally low
Sudane Erato: the alternate presented is the Schloss
Sudane Erato: and I just feel theres no comparison
Sudane Erato: the underground is far superior\
Kendra Bancroft: The schloss is comletely wrong for the Guildhall
Sudane Erato: yes!
Claude Desmoulins: What were the thoughts about the SC going to the Schloss?
Kendra Bancroft: Yes
Flyingroc Chung: if the point is to ahve a sandbox, under the platz has much more space.
Sudane Erato: that would be great
Kendra Bancroft: Schloss for SC is right
Kendra Bancroft: and I’ll finish the job that Ulrika has already paid me for
Claude Desmoulins: Amendment =
Sudane Erato: the Schloss should be oru ceremonial location
Kendra Bancroft: but re-tool it as more of an SC build
Sudane Erato: and a grand ball room
Sudane Erato: and tourist trap
Claude Desmoulins: The Scientific council will take over management and use of the Neualtenburg Schloss.
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –But I’d like to be the one to finish the job
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve already been paid to
Claude Desmoulins: If the city is going to eat that revenue, let’s use the space.
Claude Desmoulins: …at such point as the builder declares the schloss ready for occupancy .:)
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor of the amendment.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll make it a priority to finish it before the great Platz makeover gets underway
Diderot Mirabeau: there could be a great opening ball 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Sudane Erato: I like balls
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Flyingroc Chung: hah, I read that wrong.
Kendra Bancroft: \we should do Eugene’s award ceremony idea there
Sudane Erato: tsk!
Sudane Erato: yes… the awards
Claude Desmoulins: further discussion on the bill?
Flyingroc Chung: the approved bills are going to the wiki, right?
Claude Desmoulins: As soon as I can get the amended versions typed up from the transcripts/
Flyingroc Chung: cool
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill…
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye aye aye
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Claude Desmoulins: Now back to the school.
Kendra Bancroft: is this a progressive RA or what?
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra and I are both trustees.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Therefore we need everyones else here to have a quorum on the issue.
Claude Desmoulins: *everyone.
Kendra Bancroft: and our symbol will be flyingroc’s chimp avatar with a mortarboard?
Flyingroc Chung: hahaha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I think people are OK with governance.
Claude Desmoulins: The issue is, is there a citizen tuition discount?
Claude Desmoulins: or is there a scholarship fund?
Sudane Erato: Claude, I feel that should be moved to be a city budget issue
Flyingroc Chung: if the school goes private, it’s up to the school.
Kendra Bancroft: and also where do we put it? I’d love to have a small campus similar to what I set up for us at SLCC
Flyingroc Chung: I mean, the tuition discount will be up to the school, if it goes completely private.
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s in the bill, isn’t it kendra?
Claude Desmoulins: Or is this wholly private, in which case, the city, shoud, IMO not have a seat on the board.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve been on my back with the flu –haven’t read much
Aliasi Stonebender: oh, right. forgot.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need RA approval to do the land transfer to the Trustees?
Sudane Erato: i don’t think so
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think so –this is like any private sale
Aliasi Stonebender: if it’s private, it’s no different than any other sale.
Sudane Erato: only that we haven’t defined the citizenship rights of the “trustees”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s go that far, start it as a private.
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: the land trasnfer is normal
Sudane Erato: yes.
Claude Desmoulins: If the trustees are all citizens otherwise, no problem.
Sudane Erato: sure
Claude Desmoulins: Whose lot /area limits does this count against.?
Sudane Erato: none… only the school
Sudane Erato: since the Shool group is not equated with the individuals
Kendra Bancroft: the only problem I can see –is if I’m a trustee does this matter as between Altenburg and the Eisbahn , I’m at max my land tally
Claude Desmoulins: OK. We’ll let the RA hash out other stuff later.
Claude Desmoulins: I have enough meters, just not enough plots. If we need to we can account by having one person buy one plot and another person another,
Sudane Erato: no no
Sudane Erato: I think this is entirely outside the individual limitations
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Gilde has spoken.
Sudane Erato: it makes sense to me
Claude Desmoulins: I move we adjourn.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections?
Sudane Erato: none by me 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The siren song of Nyquil beckons me
Diderot Mirabeau: nope
Claude Desmoulins: Adjourned.
The meeting closed at 17:51 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 08, 2006

Meeting on 2006-02-08
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.

Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get started.

Claude Desmoulins: I reminded Eugene, but haven’t heard from him.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (gwyn is outside 😉 )
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra is busy this evening.
Claude Desmoulins: First I’d like to welcome Flyingroc Chung to the RA.
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *claps*
Flyingroc Chung: thanks!
Claude Desmoulins: He’s filling the MPP seat vacated by Pendari Lorentz
Flyingroc Chung: yay MPP!
Gwyneth Llewelyn wished I could see some seats 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender refrains from the obvious “you down with MPP, yeah you know me” quip.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hi Lucifer!
Lucifer Baphomet: hi gwynethhello gwyneth
Lucifer Baphomet: oops
Lucifer Baphomet: lol
Claude Desmoulins: BRB,RL.
Aliasi Stonebender: on to biz?
Flyingroc Chung: ack!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: bleh.
Flyingroc Chung: read latest post on forums pls
Flyingroc Chung: pen had a change of heart of some sort
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the best?
Flyingroc Chung: hm, seems she is still elaving, but coming back in august?
Aliasi Stonebender: well, she’s not going to just up and leave, she’s going to tier down and give herself a “cooling off” period.
Lucifer Baphomet: this is my partner gwyneth
Lucifer Baphomet: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, Lucifer’s partner 🙂
Lyarna Kraken: hello 😉
Flyingroc Chung: what I am unclear with is whether I can vote here today, or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, I’m glad to know about Pen, FR.
Aliasi Stonebender: I believe you can, FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Flyingroc Chung: ok, just want that to be clear
Aliasi Stonebender: well, as soon as claude gets back, we can get on to this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone have all the documents?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane. What’s the status on the notary?
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Sudane Erato: I have been in touch a few times with Zarf
Sudane Erato: but we have not yet met to go over the details
Sudane Erato: so…. pending…. any day now
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions?
Diderot Mirabeau starts to nod off
Claude Desmoulins: Website. FR and I are working on a database spec. I’m willing to do it volunteer. Where can we put it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the Wiki?
Flyingroc Chung: wiki probably the best place
Multi Gadget v1.35.0 by Timeless Prototype
Radar Shades: System is keyed to Farfletched Ixchel
Claude Desmoulins: I was meaning the actual database/
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, and I’m willing to give you all access…. when I can figure out how the heck to do it.
Flyingroc Chung: oh, hm
Claude Desmoulins: OK. We’ll put the draft on the wiki.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, this is a database for exactly what?
Sudane Erato: hehe… that was my question’
Claude Desmoulins: Managing the census/land list/accounts when we get that far.
Flyingroc Chung: information about users, government officials, land, zoning, and transactions
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: There’s stuff about hosting in the budget discussion.
Flyingroc Chung: I see a $20/month on the proposed budget for website hosting…
Claude Desmoulins: Please look at the draft budget.
Flyingroc Chung: that is a bit steep, is it not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: Is that enough. I would assume we won’t chew through that much bandwidth.
Aliasi Stonebender: Depends. My current webplan is 500 GB of transfer a month for nine bucks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Current web stats: http://neualtenburg.info/webstat/
Aliasi Stonebender: if we aren’t lavish on graphics, I don’t think we’d chew through that.
Claude Desmoulins: I figured we could do it for $10-15. I like to be conservative when I budget 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: my current website, I pay $80 a year
Claude Desmoulins: Well the draft budget is just that,. a draft.
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Comments?
Flyingroc Chung: the website would be handled by the guild, right?
Flyingroc Chung: I mean maintenance for it
Claude Desmoulins: Seems logical.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable to me 🙂
Object: Sit here.
Sudane Erato: sounds reasonable to me… so long as we have web-capable guild members 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: we have a few, I think. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have that covered 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe… I’m sure
Claude Desmoulins: What about paying those who do city services?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should there be a list of those first?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will it be basically a “fund”….
Claude Desmoulins: Probably need a list.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. paying as we go along
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Claude Desmoulins: Treasurer/web maintainer/ what else?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could suggest first something for the RA to consider… let the Guild get the US$20/month for the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they can get it cheaper, the rest is for maintenance costs 😉
Sudane Erato: sorry afk
Claude Desmoulins: I like that idea.
Aliasi Stonebender: sounds good to me.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds good to me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The treasurer should definitely get something too, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: you’re treating the guild as a separate budget…
Sudane Erato: that might technically be the case
Sudane Erato: but… at the moment…
Sudane Erato: it might be better to see these are straight expenditures, reported in the normal way
Claude Desmoulins: Can we table this until we finish with the bills that have an impact on it?
Sudane Erato: like the web cost for hosting
Sudane Erato: good
Claude Desmoulins: I’m in agreement wiht SUdane. The Guilds should be like any other vendor to the city.
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to legislation.
Claude Desmoulins: Please start with 4-8 Land sales reporting.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have a land transfer tax on the books, this should be happening anyway, but I don’t think it is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Q: land transfer tax ? what is it and how is it charged?
Claude Desmoulins: All this does is formalize the requirement.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: there is a land xfer tax on every deed
Sudane Erato: the tax on sales from city to resident is 0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: then from resident to resident is actually something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one that also will cover future costs of using Nota Bene, right?
Sudane Erato: that has happened so little I have not imposed it
Sudane Erato: ahhh..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What a benevolent Treasurer 🙂
Sudane Erato: that would have to apply to all transfers
Claude Desmoulins: I would think that would be a good use of those funds.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right. My question is answered 8for the record) 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: In any case, we should go ahead and formalize what’s already practice.
Flyingroc Chung: looks like 10% if transferred from citizen to citizen and 20% from citizen to city? this is from the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the website accurate? 😉
Sudane Erato: yes,, and citizern to city makes not a lot of sense
Sudane Erato: yes
Flyingroc Chung: hm I can try retrieving my original deed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Sudane Erato: it should be there too
Sudane Erato: but…
Sudane Erato: this bill does not mention the transfer tax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … that any such transfer of all or parts of the property to which this deed applies may be subject to a Property Transfer Tax in such amounts as to be determined by the Representative Assembly
Sudane Erato: or am I looking at the wrong one?
Aliasi Stonebender: 4-8 only mentions it in the explanitory section.
Sudane Erato: ahh… isee
Claude Desmoulins: Mine says 10% citizen to citizen and 20% citizen to city.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: they all do
Flyingroc Chung: my deed says the same
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to drop the citizen-city tax?
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, I think the case of the citizen to city tax, is if someone wishes to get out of Neualtenburg, the City more or less has to buy it, after all.
Sudane Erato: yes…. the city would not buy from a citizen, unless the city initiated a special action
Aliasi Stonebender: or, that was probaly the original thought.
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t think it makes sense now.
Flyingroc Chung: actually, I’m in favor of the citizen-city tax,itgives the citizen incentive to look for a different buyer
Claude Desmoulins: Most of the lots that have gone back to the city have gone back at no cost, right?
Sudane Erato: no, beacuse a citizen just leaves, and abandons it
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: it has happened frequently
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I figured it was more a matter of “find someone else to buy it, or abandon the plot”… but we can handle the transfer tax at another time.
Claude Desmoulins: So the citizen pays extra if he/she insists thar city buy back his/her land.
Aliasi Stonebender: what about THIS bill?
Sudane Erato: no… the city should not be in the regular business of buying back lots
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote on it w/o amendment then?
Sudane Erato: I feel
Flyingroc Chung: this bill sound reasonable, unless it puts undue burden on the tresurer
Sudane Erato: and… in additon… remember my post…
Aliasi Stonebender: The treasurer already has to collect this information, by and large.,
Sudane Erato: the city already has all this info except the price
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: need to do the transfer
Sudane Erato: needed
Aliasi Stonebender: I say let’s get to the vote.
Claude Desmoulins: We want that price info to base our land fees on anyway.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor….
Sudane Erato: yes… that part is good
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Oh, didn’t we skip the vote on Dianne?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Yes we did, sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for remembering it, Aliasi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on this?
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t believe any is needed; it’s all been pretty public.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: You’ve got that right:)
Aliasi Stonebender: shall we, then?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Ayue
Flyingroc Chung: ayup
Claude Desmoulins: There, Gwyn is no longer alone 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Flyingroc Chung: maybe for later we can consider some sort of formal procedure for the RA to familiarize themselves with the SC candidate?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
Sudane Erato: Dianne’s not on-line now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘familiarize’ hmm…. a round of pints at the pub? 😉
Sudane Erato: haha
Flyingroc Chung: yeah, that sort of thing
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll get there, probably tonight.
Flyingroc Chung: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: good pint!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: We could, yes. A counterpoint to Dianne’s notice that she doesn’t have to answer questions, is the RA doesn’t /have/ to say yes, either.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course.
Claude Desmoulins: Next – Bill 4-7 : RA term of office.
Aliasi Stonebender: and while we’re all aware of Dianne’s stand on things… for other candiates I might not want to vote yes without being able to ask something.
Diderot Mirabeau: uhuuuh
Claude Desmoulins: I couldn’t find any documentary history on this. Pen was supposed to send me something.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean publicly, Aliasi? (just for the record)
Aliasi Stonebender: publicly or privately, Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, privately is something entirely different!
Aliasi Stonebender: the key point is I’d want to KNOW.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s discuss this when we get to 4-10, which I’ll move up above the consitutional amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public means the Q&A goes on record, and is posted publicly on the forums or elsewhere; private just means it’s an off-the-record thingy with more or less formalism.
Aliasi Stonebender: As for 4-7… I have observed we’ve got a poor definition of term lengths and such, yes.
Flyingroc Chung: coming from an academic backgroun, I think dynamics ofbeing asked questions by a panel of people can bring to light some issues that may not come out in private one-on-one discussions
Aliasi Stonebender: that is true enough.
Claude Desmoulins: About six months for RA seems to be the practice.
Sudane Erato: early on there was a semi decision that the term length should be short… 3 months
Sudane Erato: this makes much more sense
Claude Desmoulins: The original proposal was 2 months which was at the time 1/2 the lease.
Aliasi Stonebender: 3 or 6 months, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: 6 months makes more sense to me
Aliasi Stonebender: ah.
Flyingroc Chung: how long was the last RA’s term?
Claude Desmoulins: This also sets unifor election dates.
Claude Desmoulins: *uniform
Sudane Erato: since early August
Aliasi Stonebender: I think it does too. Even if it does mean it’ll be a bit over 5 months before I can tell y’all to go shove off properly. 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: 6 months seems like a good term length
Claude Desmoulins: This also sets a firm deadline for the new election system, which I left out of the draft budget.
Sudane Erato: ahhh… yes
Claude Desmoulins: Does the RA tem eventually need to be written into the constitution?
Claude Desmoulins: *term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, originally, the idea was “no”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should be just a law.
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t mean to argue against you on this .. I am just wondering .. with the current attrition rate of citizens and RA members will the faction’s list of supplementary candidates be able to hold out for six months?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because as we grow/shrink, terms should be longer/shorter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, good point, Diderot, yes
Sudane Erato: good point Diderot… but the last one did
Flyingroc Chung: well if it is not written into the constitution, there is a danger that the RA can define say, 900 years s their term. But I suppose the SC will ahve something to say about *that*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes FR
Sudane Erato: hehe… Roc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We certainly will 🙂
Sudane Erato: I’ll be here for 900 years!
Aliasi Stonebender: Indeed, FR. 900 year terms is not exactly a democratic assembly keeping in touch with the current populace. 😉
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: so… vote?
Sudane Erato: well… I suggest it be considered at least as a constitutional thing…
Sudane Erato: before it is finalized as a law only
Claude Desmoulins: Right. I’m troubled by the RA setting its own term length.
Sudane Erato: but it ceratinly be voted on as the sense of the RA
Flyingroc Chung: Well, I think for pragmatic reasons, like gwyn points out…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only if the RA is not ‘controlled’ by the SC on this 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: even as a constitutional amendment, the RA will be setting it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: the only difference is more people have to vote for it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep!
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I think relying on the SC to smack the RA’s hand is a better solution.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: yeah, those bums at the Sc need to work also
Claude Desmoulins: So, law or amendment?
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: unless the SC thinks it needs to be an amendment, I saypass it as a law.
Sudane Erato: i suggest it be discussed inthe forum… like the other constitutional issues
Flyingroc Chung: we have enough people to vote it into law…
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts from the dean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC can’t go against the current constitution, which says it should be a law 😉
Flyingroc Chung: actually…. gwyn…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it’s up to you to change the constitution if you prefer (I wouldn’t, but that’s up to you)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR?
Flyingroc Chung: ” Members of the Philosophic branch are not bound by a strict literal interpretation of the Bill of Rights, Founding Philosophy, Constitution, or the strict adherence to legal precedence.”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s start with a law, we can ask the amendment question later.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, LOL ? of course, FR, I was just employing rhetorics 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Pen!!!
Sudane Erato: Pen!!!!
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwwwwww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: PEN!!!!!!
Flyingroc Chung: hey pen
Diderot Mirabeau: good evening Pen .. what a nice surprise 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn hugs Pen
Pendari Lorentz: the constitution comes first.. always =)
Sudane Erato: haha
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: only two more and i’ts a full house
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the subtance of the bill?
Pendari Lorentz: hello everyone.. forgive my presense.. I figure I need to help with my position being turned to another?
Lucifer Baphomet: fletch and i are merely observers
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve said all I figure that needs to be said.
Lucifer Baphomet: you have 4 seats
Pendari Lorentz: what is the discussion about?
Claude Desmoulins: RA Term of office.
Pendari Lorentz: ahhh.. yes.. that was kept open due to how small Neualt is.. was hard to find anyone that would last a year.. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Bills and agenda in the document box.
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, this is rather awkward, I’ve filled in for you on voting on the other bills, Pen.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, pend, we’re looking to formalize it as a law.
Pendari Lorentz: N
Pendari Lorentz: EEK! notecard spam
Pendari Lorentz: may I politely offer a suggestion
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: There’s a busy agenda.
Aliasi Stonebender: of course. Yer still a Nburger, after all.
Pendari Lorentz: Claude.. I used to put the extrra notecards inside the agend notecard.. that way you only had to get One notecard and then open the others.. helped with things =)
Claude Desmoulins: Someone will have to show me how to do that.
Pendari Lorentz: It took me a while to realize that helped.. haha
Aliasi Stonebender: you just drag and drop, Claude.
Sudane Erato: it was great! Pen
Flyingroc Chung: just drag from inv to notecard.
Pendari Lorentz: Here Claude.. let me give you an old agenda as a sample =)
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the mean time… may I just suggest something else… I feel that things that can be set by passing a law do not really need a constitutional amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we base our legislation on ‘precedents’
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would mean that for every tiny little bit, people would be changing the Constitution every time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But then again, as said before, that’s up for the RA to discuss 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: The constitution should only have overarching structural concerns; i.e., actually establishing we have 3 branches and their duties, etc.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, would you be willing to open a forum thread on what needs to be in the constitution?
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. at this point I’m intruding.. I agree with Gwyn on just about everything even though she is SDF.. haha.. Ya’ll let me know how we want to do the changing of my position.. should be Flyingroc or Satchmo as far as MPP members go.. but each has a
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What ‘needs’ to be… lol
Sudane Erato: isn’t customarrily the term length in the constitution?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sure, I’ll think a bit over the weekend…
Pendari Lorentz: reason to not be able to hold the position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane, it depends
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Pen, yes, we’ll have FR 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, Sudane, but I don’t recall any place where it’s custom to establish a trade union in the constitution, so… *shrug*
Claude Desmoulins: I guess I feel it’s very important, if we take democracy seriously, that citizens know when the next electyion is.
Sudane Erato: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Always.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed Aliasi. Or a Constitution without an Executive body. Etc and so on.
Pendari Lorentz: I need to leave before anyone spots me.. this will be my last week on.. you all email me.. I’m listening! and Sudane, I’ll contact you about the 6 month up front deed charges.. want to square that away
Pendari Lorentz: *hugs* ya’ll!
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Sudane Erato: great!! bye Pen
Flyingroc Chung: bye pen, good luck.
Claude Desmoulins: Bye.
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Pen … all the best
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww thanks for staying with us for this few minutes, Pen!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops there she goes
Claude Desmoulins: I think it’s something to look at in more depth.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude ? you could also pass a bill that on the first session of a newly elected RA; the next date for elections has to be set.
Flyingroc Chung: I’d rather vote on the bill now, and then talk about an amendment, if it is necessary
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree.
Aliasi Stonebender: we should have SOMETHING formal, we can always change it.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-7
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next, 4-6 setting land fees for the zone we voted on last week.
Claude Desmoulins: I proposed twice the within the walls land fee, but it was meant as as a start point.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone have any idea what the market will bear?
Sudane Erato: i don’t…. that that is my only issue with it
Aliasi Stonebender: No clue.
Sudane Erato: we probably have to start somewhere… but that may be a bit steep
Sudane Erato: perhaps a 33% increase over City fees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are the current rates? (faster to ask than to search for it)
Flyingroc Chung: hm, let me pass around a recent notecard for rental in a private sim I hang around in…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 33%, hmm
Claude Desmoulins: .0078 in town
Sudane Erato: current rates are .0077/m2
Sudane Erato: US$
Claude Desmoulins: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh
Sudane Erato: oh… same
Sudane Erato: when the sim was originally bought… we wanted the fees to stay competitive with all of SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: with the mainland
Sudane Erato: and ownership fees are not dependednt on location, when you pay LL
Sudane Erato: so…
Sudane Erato: we run some risk… not knowing the commercial potential
Sudane Erato: of being too high
Sudane Erato: once the potential is established… THEN we have value
Aliasi Stonebender: they aren’t, but you DO pay varying amounts for land to people, Sudane.
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, mature waterfront sells for more than, say, PG cliff.
Sudane Erato: for rental perhaps
Sudane Erato: or on other private sims
Sudane Erato: sells!!
Sudane Erato: not monthly fee
Aliasi Stonebender: true.
Sudane Erato: fee is far more significant
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t want to put it too high, but if we don’t charge some premium we send the message that the slots aren’t valuable.
Flyingroc Chung: platz space needs to have a premium
Sudane Erato: I agree Cl;aude
Claude Desmoulins: They are all line of sight to a telehub 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I think Sudane’s suggestion of a 33% increase is reasonable.
Sudane Erato: remember… the deed says we can always change it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been silent, because I think it’s worth the risk. Rentals on busy malls are higher than this.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so N’burg is not ‘a busy mall’…. yet
Claude Desmoulins: What figure would that give us? or do we want to change it to 133% of the base in city rate.
Sudane Erato: this is not yet a busy spot
Aliasi Stonebender: I wouldn’t mind it being busy, being a mall I could live without. Just a few shops, plz.
Claude Desmoulins: If we amend to a percentage of the base, we index it automatically.
Sudane Erato: true
Sudane Erato: but we need experience to see how things shape up
Flyingroc Chung: surely we want the platz value to move higher more quickly than the base city rate?
Sudane Erato: in this case… we may want… but its the “market” which determines
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d say just set a set rate of 133% of current city rate; we can change it later if need be, and if it’s a bit low to start with, it’ll just help attract.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All very reasonable 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as an amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (can I buy one plot thgere now??? Please? 🙂 )
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Sudane Erato: hehe..
Claude Desmoulins: As soon as the Guild finishes the covenant details and the SC approves the various bills.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is patient.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have been waiting for 15 months now 🙂
Sudane Erato: tsk!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing no further discussion. All infavor of the amendment…
Flyingroc Chung: hm, I have an ethics question here… I would dearly love to buy a spot at the platz…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha FR!
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I might too.
Sudane Erato: conflict of interest!! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, the point seems to be… we’ll all be happy to fight for available spots there 😉
Claude Desmoulins: If everyone recuses we have no quorum. 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: We can all have a death chainsaw match in the Thunderdome afterwards.
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn kicks the sleeping RA members under the table.
Lucifer Baphomet: lol
Flyingroc Chung: I guess I can vote aye, provided we can find a fair way for all citizens to have a chance at getting the spot
Aliasi Stonebender: aye here.
Claude Desmoulins: Since you’ve publicly declared your interest….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. We can trust the fairness of the Guild 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Aye/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (meaning: an auction? 🙂 )
Claude Desmoulins: New bill – not on original agenda.
Flyingroc Chung: auction, or lottery, or something else
Flyingroc Chung: anyway, I vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: 4-11 The guild is authorized to develop a mechanism for the allocation of CCD lots;
Claude Desmoulins: Or do you have that power already?
Sudane Erato: I’m sure that will involve publishing the plan to ourselves and giving current citizens first choice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, not explicitly.
Sudane Erato: after all, anyone else would have to join anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it falls in the ‘spirit’ of the Guild’s powers, aye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, it never hurts to approve it as a law, methinks.
Sudane Erato: I am happy to consult with everyone regarding the mechnaism 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aliasi’s dice throwing mechanism works great…. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… belive me… I don;t think theres THAT much interest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or paper-stone-scissors (since we *have* the anims for that as Linden defaults ? and you all know how much I love anims!)
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 4-11 approved!
Claude Desmoulins: 4-9 Reserve Account.
Claude Desmoulins: This has been hashed out in the forums. I did modify the bill to address Frank Lardner’s concerns.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: I would further suggest a cap of 2 months city expenses
Sudane Erato: unless the accounts are interest bearing
Claude Desmoulins: That’s an amendment. I have no problem with it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Two months seems good to me.
Aliasi Stonebender: three months is a bit much to just hold on.
Flyingroc Chung: yes, two months sounds mroe reasonable
Sudane Erato: yes… with no interest
Aliasi Stonebender: if we can’t correct any income troubles in two, something is seriously wrong.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All Guild suggestions on budget-related things are welcome 😉 (since the Guild has a veto on them hehe)
Claude Desmoulins: The question is, if we have a mass exodus and end up where there are three oe four people left, How much time do thay need?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And i agree, Aliasi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack, Claude!
Sudane Erato: we…. sounds familiar 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *knocks on wood*
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why I’m asking .
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, it happened before, lol
Sudane Erato: the month or two will do, I feel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, I also think so.
Sudane Erato: theat will give us the time to reassess
Object: Sit here.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the two month amendment.
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Flyingroc Chung: er, I vote yes
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion of the bill ?
Flyingroc Chung: the transcripts dont record the pauses. I think something gets lost that way.
Aliasi Stonebender: none here.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-9?
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we could ask Eloise to put timestamps on the transcript device, so that we would get the ‘pauses’ 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next bill?
Claude Desmoulins: Now the tricky stuff. I’d like to move to 4-10
Flyingroc Chung: Is frank an nburg citizen already, btw?
Aliasi Stonebender: we can’t decide on the amendment, anyway.
Sudane Erato: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, FR ? we’re working on it 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, I did drop a mod warning on all involved to cool down a bit.
Sudane Erato: I’m doing my best to antagonize heim 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, I did the best I could to turn it into bill language.
Aliasi Stonebender: (re: the reserve bill thread)
Claude Desmoulins: I had let it drop by that point 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: so, the amendment I think we’ll have to table to 7-day discussion and vote.
Claude Desmoulins: Now 4-10. I think this needs amendment.
Aliasi Stonebender: 4-10, on the other hand…
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do 4-10.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s where we as the RA lay out what we want the process to look like.
Lyarna Kraken: hello again 🙂
Lucifer Baphomet: wb love
Lyarna Kraken: smiles
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve established that there ought be no compulsion to make a public appearance before the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins puts on my negotiator hat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC wants a hard deadline. What are they willing to give for it 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: Well, can the RA “invite” the potential SC candidate for a friendly discussion on constitutional issues?
Aliasi Stonebender: I think that’s reasonable.
Aliasi Stonebender: As Gwyn says, that’s more of a “backdoor politics” thing that I don’t think needs to be formalized.
Claude Desmoulins: What about a written question option?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I would oppose too much ‘formalization’.
Claude Desmoulins: But we have a bill here that obligates the RA to a timetable. That’s not backdoor.
Aliasi Stonebender: The RA can ask the candidate to come to a public discussion/forum thread, the candidate can refuse, the RA can vote yea or nay as they please.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s also quite formal:)
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, claude
Aliasi Stonebender: but this doesn’t say anything about the necessity of a discussion.
Aliasi Stonebender: it just prevents a “filibuster”.
Flyingroc Chung: maybe a week is too short
Claude Desmoulins: Could we at least stretch it out to 14 or 21 days.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even a month.,
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree a week is a bit too soon. two weks fo rthis crowd seems more likely.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: We are always on the verge of not having a quorum here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My first suggestion was 48 hours, LOL, then I though I was being crazy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, to be honest…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: something like “on the next RA meeting”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: should work out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since according to the Constitution the RA has to meet once a month…
Flyingroc Chung: well on the next RA meeting might not work, if there isnt a quorum…
Aliasi Stonebender: hm, but then, Gwyn, the SC could nominate the day before a meeting, doesn’t give much time for discussion, if such is desired.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And currently there are even 4 meetings a month….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Aliasi Stonebender: and yes, without a quorum…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, good point, Aliasi. Agred.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we prefer next RA meeting or a certain number of days?
Claude Desmoulins: How about 30 days?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I withdraw my suggestion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 30 days, fine.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds reasonable… the SC inst exactly swamped with work…
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, that would effectively give a nice “30 days or next suitable RA meeting” as a practical outcome./
Claude Desmoulins: Can we also clarify as exactly when the clock starts?
Aliasi Stonebender: I would think it would be at the SC meeting the vote to nominate is held.
Claude Desmoulins: I would prefer the Dean make a formal notification of the nomination to the LRA via IM/PM or email.
Claude Desmoulins: I still haven’t gotten around to reading the last SC minutes :0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha well they’re long, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: yeah I knew I should have kept quiet 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: I haven’t read them and I was there. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, I can agree with that, Claude. Seems peaceful enough.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we view those as friendly amendments?
Claude Desmoulins: The way I read it the amendment says:—–
Claude Desmoulins: change “within one week of its announcement ”
Claude Desmoulins: …to…
Claude Desmoulins: “Witrhin 30 days of the SC Dean’s communicating notice of the nomination to the LRA”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 30 days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment….
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no objections here hehe)
Claude Desmoulins: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the bill?
Flyingroc Chung: not here
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can’t vote on the amendment, but I’d like to discuss for a few minutes.
Claude Desmoulins: I really liked Justice Soothsayer’s suggestion that the SC functions as an upper house like the House of Lordsa or the French Senate.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I liked the concept
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, for the record (since it’s all on the threads)
Claude Desmoulins: But if the SC is part of the legislative branch it needs to meet as often as we do, IMO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My opinion is that too much emphasis on the “SC as co-helping legislative processes”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that is mostly due to the wording on the bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that says that “the SC can veto a bill, and resubmit it to modification to teh RA for approval”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any* citizen can submit a bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any* citizen can propose modifications for the RA for approval
Aliasi Stonebender: so that should really just say “the SC can veto”, full stop?
Sudane Erato: with an opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We even have somewhere written that the RA cannot *refuse* to accept a bill, *if* it meets the proper procedures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Here are my issues….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in my opinion, well, it’s just bad wording which somehow gave rise to the concept that the SC has any sor of “authority” over the legislative process. It has as much, or as less, as any other citizen.
Flyingroc Chung: I thhink what the amendment is trying to say is that the SC does not have pro-active veto powers, rather, it only acts when a citizen brings up constitutional problems with any law?
Claude Desmoulins: 1) As presently worded, the SC must affirmatively ratify any RA bill before it goes in to effect.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, I also think that amendment is poorly worded, FR
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC is quasi legislative, like a House of Lords, that’s OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no intention of offending you, Claude!!!)
Aliasi Stonebender: yesh, because, again… the SC are citizens, too.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Claude
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s not a legislative deal
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s more like a presidential veto in the US.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: however
Aliasi Stonebender: in the US, Congress can override a presidential veto, which isn’t present here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we have discussed that for quite a bit in the past….
Claude Desmoulins: Right that’s issue two.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I suggest something else… that on 1) we have the opposite: a law goes into effect if, one week (or some set time) after the RA having approved it, the SC does NOT veto.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the SC would only be ‘active’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they felt the need for it.
Claude Desmoulins: The plain fact is, especially since the SC can veto constitutional amendments, it is in fact the final unappealable authority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Claude Desmoulins: That makes them more of a judiciary, which is I think how most perceive them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree
Claude Desmoulins: I want to pull the amendment and resubmit, anyway.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘judiciary’ is a more in line with the original thoughts about the SC
Claude Desmoulins: But the SC veto of constitutional amendments is something we really need to think about.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, although – as I posted in the forums – I think the SC’s emphasis is somewhat less on “interpreting” and more on “advising”.
Claude Desmoulins: What I’d like to see is the SC to lose the amendment veto power in exchange for amendments having to pass a citizen referendum.
Flyingroc Chung: i like that
Claude Desmoulins: I’d also like to do that at the end of the consitutional clean up process, else this will take for_ever
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No way, Claude ? we’re not a base democracy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But a representative democracy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Republic of Neualtenburg” 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Ok. If we were to pull the SC veto of constitutional changes….
Flyingroc Chung: a referendum on the founding documents seems reasonable.
Aliasi Stonebender: On the other hand Gwyn, he has a point… and once we get the Constitution together as a solid document, I’d like amendments ot be a very difficult thing to pass.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m all for the emphasis on ‘advising’ instead of ‘interpreting’, of course.
Aliasi Stonebender: not impossible, but you should have to think about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t even have the figure of a referendum in the constitution….
Diderot Mirabeau: this may not be the time for anecdotal evidence … but in the RL representational democracy where I’m based a referendum is required before passing constitutional amendments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: Regardless of whether we’re a republic, we’re not a democracy if the citizenry or those directly accountable to it aren’t the final autjority.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s do the following:
Claude Desmoulins: *authority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) introduce the figure of the referendum in the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: subject to *several* restrictions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like, 6 months to do the same referendum again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one referendum per RA term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: max
Gwyneth Llewelyn: needs more than 50% voters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of those, a majority has to approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With that in place, the referendum system is not easily ‘abused’
Claude Desmoulins: I was going to suggest requiring yes votes from simple majority of all citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ‘all’ is hard, since they might never vote
Claude Desmoulins: Not just those voting.
Diderot Mirabeau: makes sense to me .. or else in the worst caste the whole democratic process could risk being mired in constant referendums
Diderot Mirabeau: *case
Claude Desmoulins: For example. If we did one…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, well, it could be a 2/3 majority of all citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Diderot, that’s what I fear ? and moving towards a base democracy instead of a representative one.
Diderot Mirabeau: of all citizens or of all those passing vote?
Flyingroc Chung: well the idea is only have referendums on consti amendments, right?
Aliasi Stonebender: so, if multiple amendments were proposed in a term, they could all be rounded up in one referendum? or does this mean “one amendment per term at most”?
Claude Desmoulins: It would require 15 (whatever 50%=1 of all citizens) yes votes to pass regardless of hoe many vote.
Diderot Mirabeau: well Aliasi .. amendments could be bundled together but people would still only be able to vote yes or no once, right?
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, if you don’t like referendum, give me a way that someone can override an SC veto of a constituional change.
Diderot Mirabeau: on the whole package in other words
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Impeach the SC 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: One at a time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the SC is really misbehaving
Aliasi Stonebender: that just means you might run out the current bunch of rascals, only to have ot find another bunch.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’d get easily full agreement on the other two bodies
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve pushed it as an option because it’s all we have NOW… but I don’t like it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well ? that’s ‘democracy’ for you, Aliasi hehe
Claude Desmoulins: If you impeached the lot, where does the new SC come from?
Sudane Erato: good point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see your point, Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: even as a representative democracy, I think it’s a bit odd to be frightened of the citizens exercising a vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right, Aliasi 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, there were reasons for not including the referendum
Diderot Mirabeau: the consitution could be argued to form the social compact between citizens and government and from that perspective it would not be unreasonable to say that if the basic premises of cohabitation between government and governed is changed citizens …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly because most people in Neualtenburg at the time were ‘dormant’
Diderot Mirabeau: should have the option to reconfirm their allegiance to the social compact
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, Gwyn, but the old Neualtenburg just required you say “hey, I’d like to be in”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s have the RA propose the introduction of a referendum
Aliasi Stonebender: the current city requires at least SOME activity in the form of payment.
Claude Desmoulins: Also, impeachment as the only option turns every issue into a vote of confidence on the SC.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Aliasi ? the ‘new’ Neualtenburg, with redefining citizenship, will probably move towards that model again)
Claude Desmoulins: Please explain…. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, it’s the same issue ? if we have several available modes of participating in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like rentals
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or co-habitation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all these people, sooner or later, might become citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under a revised model
Sudane Erato: we might have… but do not now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, really, it will be more “I’m a citizen of Neualtenburg because I abide by its laws”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, not now, I agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s somethign to consider, but I’ve also made clear I don’t think anyone should become a citizen without some form of commitment to the city.
Claude Desmoulins: Hmmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t oppose the notion of a referendum per se
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just needs the proper safeguards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it *has* to be a constitution amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To make it have *power*
Aliasi Stonebender: We don’t have the situation of people being citizens because their parents had a child here, after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe not yet, Aliasi, but who knows.,.. I have heard pretty crazy ideas from Lindens that *were* seriously discussing that… but let’s skip that for the moment 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: which is actually very fascinating … citizenship as an involved, conscious decision of the individual … something that should be the ideal every democracy strived for
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, Do you want to do the first draft? I’d like to see the referendum limited to being the last step of the constitutional amendment process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Diderot ? I do agree, although it raises currently lots of problems, but I guess we can figure them out
Diderot Mirabeau: ah … the tediousness of practicalities 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, the ‘first draft’ is roughly this:
Claude Desmoulins: That way, the SC keeps much of its power. The only way to circumvent is to tchange the constitution with all the hoops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – one referendum per term
Aliasi Stonebender: well, it’s an ideal I want to strive for – I don’t insist the committment be monetary, but it should be SOMETHING that shows you’ll do more than join a group and lay idle.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – 2/3 majority vote f the population to make it ‘binding’
Claude Desmoulins: population or tho
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – constitution amendments need a referendum to get approved
Claude Desmoulins: Wait.
Aliasi Stonebender: ’cause I think that caused a lot of problems for the old model.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi, that’s the biggest problem.
Claude Desmoulins: 2/3 majority – three possible interpretations here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh LOL
Claude Desmoulins: 1. 2/3 of all citizens must vote for ref to be valid
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree Aliasi .. but it can be hard to devise a test that will measure out exact predictions of future performance as a citizen
Claude Desmoulins: 2/. 2/3 of voters must say yess.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was just saying that at LEAST half the citizens should vote and at LEAST a simple majority of them would be needed. But that is the ‘weakest’ possible solution.
Claude Desmoulins: 2/3 of citizens must say yes (vote yes)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2/3 of ALL voters saying YES is a pretty strong requirement, but I’m fine with it, if the RA votes on that.
Claude Desmoulins: Which do you mean?
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Aliasi Stonebender: well, diderot, that’s why our current model works. paying towards the upkeep of the city is a practical measure of involvement, and since you’d have to buy multiple plots and maintain multiple groups, makes the alt-problem a lesser concern.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude ? all your three suggestions are ‘stronger’ than a simple majority of at least half of the citizens voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d be agreeable to either one!
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d go for at least 50% turnout, 2/3rd voting in favor.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put together a text version ofthe amendment and redraft mine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Diderot Mirabeau: Yes Aliasi .. it would be an interesting thought to play with to expand the definition of the commitment to include other forms of contribution such as building .. scripting .. hosting events .. or any other kind of society building activity
Aliasi Stonebender: Like I said, once we do the revision, I’d like it to stick.
Claude Desmoulins: Then you’ve got to measure those things and define how much is enough.
Diderot Mirabeau: In the RL country that I am based in 70% of the population eligilbe to vote is required to vote yes …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, the SECOND step would be to get the referendum to approve the constitution, instead of the SC’s ‘confirmation vote’
Aliasi Stonebender: Indeed, diderot, but until then… we have bills we have to pay, and it’s an easy way of making sure they do!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Good.
Diderot Mirabeau: ‘bills to pay and mouths to feed’ 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, LL’s mouths 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: So essentially this defines a new amendment process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the constitution only?
Claude Desmoulins: 1st 2/3 majority of all RA members
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sorry. Yes, amendments are constitution only.
Claude Desmoulins: Then 2/3 of citizens with 51%+ voter turnour
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50% + one? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or 51%?
Aliasi Stonebender: 50% plus one, I’d say.
Claude Desmoulins: 50%+1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Diderot Mirabeau: so if 50% is 8.5?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50% + 1 would be 9
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can’t actually pass it until we finish the rest of the constitution stuff. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, we’ll rweak the wording.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, you can, Claude 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Huh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since right now, you DON’T need a referendum to approve the constitution!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: If we do this one first, as soon as it gets passed everything else has to go to referendum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the RA’s call, you can have tons of tiny amendments now
Diderot Mirabeau: no but it would be impractical if there are other const. amendments to pass as part of the reform process right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and leave the referendum to the end 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s your game 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s clean up everything using the currewnt system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: clean it up, and then pass the referendum amendment as the “seal”
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the feeling of empowerment, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: From what I’ve seen, anyway, most of the things are just minor changes, rewordings, etc
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Then do the referendum amendment. Perhaps without a referendum on it, since it would be the old system still 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: clarifications
Aliasi Stonebender: since holding a bona fide constitutional convention is kind of unlikely with our timezone difficulties.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Claude, that’s the idea 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Make the job *much harder* for the next RA members, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Two more things.
Diderot Mirabeau: and leave a lasting legacy .. isn’t that the ultimate goal of most politicians? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, indeed, Aliasi, we can only have the usual “forum discussion” which makes things drag for weeks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Diderot 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, if we change the SC veto provisions in article III, how long does the SC need? I’d like seven days to veto or it becomes law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was earlier suggesting briefly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: a slight re-interpretation on the veto thingie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Working like this…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By ‘default’, all bills subject to veto
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – budget by Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – others by SC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: are “automatically approved”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after, say, X days
Claude Desmoulins: X=?
Flyingroc Chung: 10 days?
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this means that the SC/Guild cannot ‘block’ the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they refuse to work
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR
Claude Desmoulins: Good. Like what we just did 2/ 4-10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s also a more resonable explanation and an assumption that both SC and Guild act in ‘good faith’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, present in our traditions. Formally, the SC *never* approved the bills…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the ones made into laws, I mean
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because the SC never met formally, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, perhaps the constitution should clarify that also.
Claude Desmoulins: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. “by default” ? everything is automatically approved.
Claude Desmoulins: Last announcement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, this is moving away from Lordfly’s suggestion of the bicameral system, and more towards Aliasi’s interpretation of the SC as judicial
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with which I tend to agree more
Claude Desmoulins: I have an out of town business trip next week. I may be away from SL on Wednesday evening.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Claude Desmoulins: If I can get my Linux box to behave, I could do the meeting at another time. Else you’ll have to go on w/o me or postpone until the 22nd.
Sudane Erato: i suggest the 22nd
Diderot Mirabeau: well the RA’s been pretty busy up until now .. no harm done in postponing by a week, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: 22d is fine, nburg will survive, methinks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so!
Claude Desmoulins: I guess if a meeting is constitutionally obligrtory, would Kendra run it or Aliasi?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Claude ? just one per month
Flyingroc Chung: consti mandates only 1x a month?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You had your ‘quota’ filled with this one 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s postpone til the 22nd. Give us time to get constitutional ducks in order.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: We also need to start thinking about a voting system.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: and a lot of procedural things too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, indeed, Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Only 5 months seven days until elections 🙂
Sudane Erato: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like getting Nota Bene *finally* installed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hehe Claude 😀
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time flies!
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjournment?
Sudane Erato: no
Flyingroc Chung: no
Farfletched Ixchel: If I may say so, this has been highly interesting 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned then.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 22, 2006

Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: …get started.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn just arrived
Dnate Mars: did I pay for Feb udane?
Dnate Mars: I can’t remember….
Sudane Erato: neither Eugene nor kendra are on line
Sudane Erato: ahhh no
Claude Desmoulins: First is the question of paying for civil service.
Sudane Erato: I was going to remind you
Dnate Mars: um… oops
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: No one replied to Sudane’s forum post.
Flyingroc Chung: sry, havent been reading forums lately, swamped.
Claude Desmoulins: Any general discussion before we look at the budget?
Aliasi Stonebender: none from me.
Claude Desmoulins: I think Sudane has made a useful distinction between governing functions and civil service functions.
Sudane Erato: trying to, yes
Claude Desmoulins: For example, the difference between Treasurer and Gildemeister.
Claude Desmoulins: Even though one person does both functions.
Sudane Erato: having one person do both functions is not ideal
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I’ve let my feelings be known… the basic idea could be summed up as “I don’t think power and money should come with the same job”, I suppose.
Sudane Erato: for the obvious conflict of interest
Sudane Erato: yes…exactly
Claude Desmoulins: But we don’t have enough people to separate everything.
Sudane Erato: but corners need to be cut a bit
Sudane Erato: right
Aliasi Stonebender: True enough. We’ve so few people all kinds of folks have to wear multiple hats.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s look at the budget since that will make the issue more specific.
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all.
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Touching the document box will get you one notecard with links 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Hi.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I hope it will eventually rez some day…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: welcome to lag-land 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmmm I see still some RA members missing…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just not rezzed in yet?
Claude Desmoulins: Missing the SDF again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmpf.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: heh
Claude Desmoulins: I think Kendra doesn’t get home in time for the meeting start.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, me too.
Claude Desmoulins: No idea about Eugene .
Claude Desmoulins: Comments on the draft budget?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think i have to have a chat with Eugene… as much as I love him, the truth is, he has been having major computer problems for the past year or so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And he has changed computers three times!
Aliasi Stonebender: crazy.
Diderot Mirabeau: pfft … that’s Windows for you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… I’ve seen him in a good deal lately
Dnate Mars: what happened?
Aliasi Stonebender: bah, I’m using Windows and it’s perfectly stable. No OS wars at the meeting kthx. 😉
Sudane Erato: lol…
Sudane Erato: I agree
Diderot Mirabeau: well me too .. just a cheap shot at humor
Dnate Mars: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, budget-wise…
Claude Desmoulins: I know the web hosting figure is high.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, it is.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we authorize the guild to find a web host with that as a monthly max?
Sudane Erato: its better to estimate expenses high
Sudane Erato: and income low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What they don’t spend can be rolled into web development.
Claude Desmoulins: Which we tried to do.
Sudane Erato: sure
Aliasi Stonebender: Good idea.
Sudane Erato: or be left for the reserve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I remember the last meeting on the web issue, that was what was agreed upon?
Aliasi Stonebender: the website isn’t going to use a huge amount of bandwidth in all probability
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. the remaining goes towards paying for development?
Aliasi Stonebender: unless we start posting interactive video tours. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I like development. We have to pay for an exlection system this term.
Claude Desmoulins: *election
Sudane Erato: yes
Flyingroc Chung: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw: current webstats at: http://neualtenburg.info/webstat/)
Flyingroc Chung: where *is* nburg.info currently hosted?
Aliasi Stonebender: (although that won’t cover the wiki, which is my domain)
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane. Will you take that as a friendly amendment?
Sudane Erato: sure!
Sudane Erato: altho the budget is the RA’s
Claude Desmoulins: Who’s paying the web bill at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, no bill
Flyingroc Chung: gwyn and aliasi, I think?
Flyingroc Chung: aliasi for the wiki
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn, I assume, is paying for .info, wiki is mine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I ‘paid’ for .info, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I don’t pay for web space, at least for a while
Claude Desmoulins: LEt’s make this formal.
Claude Desmoulins: Amendment…
Claude Desmoulins: Guild is oauthorized to secure hosting with the amount in the budget as a monthly maximum…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: *authorized,,.,
Claude Desmoulins: If all budgeted funds not spent on hosting, the remainder goes back to fund development of the site.
Sudane Erato: sounds great
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Flyingroc Chung: sounds good to me
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn *pokes* Aliasi 😉
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Aliasi Stonebender: sorry. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lag 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the budget?
Flyingroc Chung: where will the reserve fund come from?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see, Aliasi ? Sudane, Dnate, Diderot and I are just part of the furniture 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: the reserve fund, as I understand it, is part of the budget.
Diderot Mirabeau: albeit a very decorative part of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And talkative. But that’s ok for SL.
Sudane Erato: its basically the remainder, up to a point

Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I understand that bit about the reserve fund as well: ‘the unexpected remainder’
Sudane Erato: and that will be determined at the end of the term
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, it’s basically “any money that we don’t budget, we stash until X amount.”
Sudane Erato: at which point we move funds into a reserve account
Flyingroc Chung: Isee, that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very much so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re very sensible people 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: The way I read it is 10 k to land scanner, 10 k to web, 10k to promotion, 20k (4k/month) to salaries
Claude Desmoulins: That leaves 27k for reserve if we don’t tap our cash accounts.
Sudane Erato: which… really… is the same…
Sudane Erato: its all cash at this point
Sudane Erato: only at the end of the period do we assign funds to the reserve
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, it’ snot like we own stock or have a savings account.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Should we move $195US to a reserve line?
Diderot Mirabeau: this procedure about transferring funds at the end of the period is that mentioned specifically in the law?
Sudane Erato: now?
Sudane Erato: hmmm..
Sudane Erato: I proposed it at one point…
Sudane Erato: its really procedural rather than substance
Diderot Mirabeau: okay it must be then .. in any case we have the transcripts 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: well… it may be in drafts
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d think it would be better to fill it up as funds come in… I mean, as Sudane says, it’s procedural, we have th emoney anyway
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: but I’d prefer to allow us to stay a little flexible for the time being.
Claude Desmoulins: I think do it now. If we need an amendment here, there’s no rule about being germane 🙂
Sudane Erato: excatly Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: WHen precisely do we move it then?
Aliasi Stonebender: end of the month? end of term?
Sudane Erato: theres really not a big issue
Sudane Erato: we can do it now, if you wish
Sudane Erato: so long there is cash for tyhe other needs
Diderot Mirabeau: but if we decide on a funds management policy at one point the exact moment of transfer would become more important .. although as you say it could be left procedurally ..
Sudane Erato: since they were to first
Claude Desmoulins: Do we start paying the civil service in Feb or March?
Sudane Erato: true…. but only if income were being generated by the account
Aliasi Stonebender: I just want to make sure any surprise expenses, we can handle. Since money in the reserve account stays there.
Sudane Erato: i agree with that… so I like a bit extra of a cushion
Sudane Erato: since there is no interest involved yet
Sudane Erato: i suggest waiting till the end of the period
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with me.
Sudane Erato: remember we siad… “Up to one month”
Claude Desmoulins: I think that’s what the bill says.
Sudane Erato: and later to a max of two
Claude Desmoulins: Are we ready to vote on the budget or do we need to amend for an election system?
Sudane Erato: perhaps we should add 10,000 for the elctions system
Aliasi Stonebender: Sounds good to me.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll considerthat a proposed amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Aliasi Stonebender: none here.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay again 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of adding $L10K for election system…
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Dnate Mars: aye
Diderot Mirabeau: ahem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Flyingroc Chung: lol dnate
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: practicing for next term?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hudreset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry for the spam
Diderot Mirabeau: learning by mimicking
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb
Aliasi Stonebender: bah.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else before we vote the budget?
Aliasi Stonebender: not from me.
Claude Desmoulins: My presumption is that the guild is responsible for bidding this stuff out, either to its own members or externally.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. The RA is concerned with what to do, the Guild handles how.
Sudane Erato: i’m trying to develop procedures now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for asking that, Claude…. it would be my next question…
Sudane Erato: at this point… I’d just ask for those willing to do the job…
Claude Desmoulins: I hope the Gildemeisteren keeps us in the loop on the various RFP’s
Sudane Erato: I’m hoping to propose better procedures
Claude Desmoulins: *-erin
Claude Desmoulins: If we pass this, when do payments to the civil servants start?
Sudane Erato: I suggest in March
Flyingroc Chung: should be march
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Flyingroc Chung: since february is about to end
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the budget as amended….
Diderot Mirabeau: are all the positions already occupied?
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jobs for the Boys! LOL
Sudane Erato: I’m not sure who to call the webmaster…
Flyingroc Chung: aye (for the vote)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, no webmaster until we have an official website.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane is treasurer. I’m default RA archivist, Gwyn is default SC archivist, who’s webmaster?
Sudane Erato: ahhh… i see
Diderot Mirabeau: so no seperation of decisionmakers and bureaucracy in practice then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there will be one, once the new site goes up.
Flyingroc Chung: but it allows for it in the future
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. right now, I think Gwyn is technically webmaster of the current site.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, as we discussed last time, Diderot, we can delegate…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack, pfft, not really Aliasi 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: aye (on the budget)
Aliasi Stonebender: If you’ve got the admin account, it’s yer pickle.
Flyingroc Chung: in any case it’s up to the guild to designate who’s webmaster, right?
Claude Desmoulins: Probably.
Sudane Erato: yes… but right now the Guild is taking offers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll see about defining the ‘role’ of the webmaster, but rest assured, Aliasi it’ll be quite a bit more than having the admin password 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, FR.
Sudane Erato: because the procedures are still to be made
Aliasi Stonebender: I know, I know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn humbly admits that she hasn’t checked the RFP on the wiki
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, three ayes, I guess that budget is passed.
Sudane Erato: yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, congratulations, RA members 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the first time in N’burg History.
Sudane Erato: our first budget!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have A BUDGET!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hip hip hooray!
Sudane Erato: amazing!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *goes wild*
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: FR, if Sudane sends you the exchange rate each month…
Flyingroc Chung: oh yes sudane… are the land fees column not accurate?
Claude Desmoulins: ….can you change your land script to calculate the $L land fee and add a land fee total line to the table for each resident?
Sudane Erato: the fees are fine based on a fixed number
Sudane Erato: yes… in other words
Sudane Erato: duplicate the old “Citizens” page
Sudane Erato: no one now knows how much they owe each month
Flyingroc Chung: hm, so all you need are totals per citizen?
Sudane Erato: with a variable L rate
Claude Desmoulins: and to calc the $l based on the exchange rate each month.
Flyingroc Chung: wait, so the L$fee on teh current table is not accurate?
Claude Desmoulins: Since it’s one number you could hard code it into the script and change it monthly.
Diderot Mirabeau: no its based on a fixed echange rate
Diderot Mirabeau: *exchange
Sudane Erato: it is to change each month… by a bill passed last Sept
Sudane Erato: and besides…
Sudane Erato: no one can add up their numbers 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: … but you dont change it from your excel file?
Sudane Erato: ahhh… good point
Sudane Erato: you’re looking at that data too
Claude Desmoulins: If Sudane changes it in excel, your script picks that up, right?
Sudane Erato: I could input that, i guess
Sudane Erato: yes… I wasn’t doing it
Flyingroc Chung: claude, yes, then it would be fairly easy to recreate the citizens page from that data
Sudane Erato: because Ulrika had it automatically posted each month
Claude Desmoulins: Can you do per resident totals?
Flyingroc Chung: yes, I can do per resident totals
Sudane Erato: ok…. I’ll keep the excell data up to date with the current rate
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table 4-12 and let Sudane and FR tweak the scripts then.
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: agreed
Claude Desmoulins: Go to 4-11 please.
Claude Desmoulins: My point here is to do an expansion plan so one is ready if/when we’re ready to expand.
Aliasi Stonebender: would be nice.
Flyingroc Chung: I like the idea…
Diderot Mirabeau: I am wondering if it would make sense to take more of the zoning discussion in the RA prior to the RFP and put a more specific requirement in there rather than deciding afterwards?
Sudane Erato: just concerned that it does not push the issue of when to act
Diderot Mirabeau: that would enable us to let our expansion and development policy inform the planning more beforehand .. if it is possible of course
Aliasi Stonebender: I think the problem is, we can’t act until we have the money to do so… and thr ability to absorb some of the monthly cost if we don’t immediately sell enough plots.
Flyingroc Chung: should the proposal also containan estimate of costs to build the sim?
Claude Desmoulins: I specifically worded the bill to not lock us into a date.
Sudane Erato: yes, i know…
Sudane Erato: but these things are emotional
Claude Desmoulins: For that matter, the RA could bounce the proposals back if unhappy with the zoning mix.
Diderot Mirabeau: with zoning I mean for example that we could guide the planners by saying 80% residential .. 20% commercial or some such
Diderot Mirabeau: well yes but why waste people’s time if we know beforehand what we are looking after approximately
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Claude Desmoulins: Do we?
Diderot Mirabeau: not know .. but I’m proposing the RA take a general discussion on the way we want the expansion to go in terms of ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same question here….
Diderot Mirabeau: putting emphasis on commercial or residential zones ..
Diderot Mirabeau: *know = now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do ‘we’ want? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I want something with a fair amount of residential space so we can grow the population.
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: well… there’s a fairly heavy contingent of people who are sort of “self-supporting artisans” in SL. We need residential space, but one of the biggest complaints I hear re: other private land deals is
Diderot Mirabeau: “first land” for Neualtenburg? 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: no business allowed
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, on a tangent, do we now allow a citizen to own just a P280 prim lot?
Aliasi Stonebender: Not yet, no.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m thinking of Garnet here.
Sudane Erato: one for each City lot
Claude Desmoulins: WHere’s her regular land?
Flyingroc Chung: guys, really sorry, but I gotta run in a couple of minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve suggested the whole “subdivide a lot into microlots to let people be citizens without really owning land”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: but I haven’t made it a bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I loved the idea, of course….
Aliasi Stonebender: (Since I’m not sure if it’s NEEDED.)
Sudane Erato: and yes, Aliasi, thats a great idea…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, next session, perhaps?
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, what;s Garnet’s situation?
Sudane Erato: Garnet is having RL $$ problems
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s not a real change in procedure, just a change in how th eplots are drawn… which has never been a matter needing the RA before.
Sudane Erato: scaled back… and is no longer in NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Awww I’m sorry to hear that 🙁
Diderot Mirabeau: before proposing such a bill we would need to look into whether it will have adverse effects on the question of using land as a sanction of last resort in relation to corporate accountabilitiy and dispute resolution
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Claude Desmoulins: What about res/commercial mix in a possible new sim?
Claude Desmoulins: I have no problem with there being more commercial land than in the present sim.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d say I’m inclined to agree with Claude’s preference and Aliasi’s observation..
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t see that such a thing could have adverse effects, Diderot, but that’s me/.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that, but again, that’s “me” as well.
Sudane Erato: fine with me too
Flyingroc Chung: Why not wait for the proposals to come in, at least we’llhave some sort of concrete document on people’s vision for the new sim?
Sudane Erato: i observe many people seeing NBurg as a second home
Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, as always, you’re a pragmatist 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think if we do a cooporate code per Frank’s suggestion, one could either secure with land or put $L in an escrow account with the city.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Second Home?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, as it is, you can get a basic city plot for a $1us a month, a 16m plot for a quarter isn’t much different.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: thats true
Claude Desmoulins: If we let the proposals drive this, do we want to vote on the bill?
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s possible, Claude, but the important thing about land is it maintains a MONTHLY contribution, not a one-time shot of L$.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Claude Desmoulins: I’m thinking of debt security here.
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, re: this bill… I’m fine with it as is.
Claude Desmoulins: any objections to this bill?
Sudane Erato: sure…. it impacts the underlying “worth” of the City
Diderot Mirabeau: if I were a city planner I’d be thankful for a bit more detailed specification as to what the client actually wants
Flyingroc Chung: yes, lets vote on it
Diderot Mirabeau: but sure let a hundred flowers blossom .. let the planners toil and we’ll just pick the best
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s just me
Aliasi Stonebender: The thing is, diderot, is I don’t think we as a city are sure what we want.
Aliasi Stonebender: hence the call for proposals.
Claude Desmoulins: We can look at the impact on city value of each of the actrual proposals.
Diderot Mirabeau: the worst kind of clients are those who don’t know what they want
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait…. hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: welcome to government.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just say something briefly?
Sudane Erato: we are in many ways “bad”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Before the vote, I mean.
Flyingroc Chung: go ahead gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: your typing apparatus appears to continue to function, go ahead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, there is a SLIGHT problem on this ‘bill’ re: constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The RA, with consultation from the Gilde, will choose a winning proposal.”
Flyingroc Chung: ack, I need to go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there goes our quorum, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Canwe kick this to 7 day discussion/vot?
Sudane Erato: thats a good idea
Aliasi Stonebender: sure. We’ll have to do that with the amendments, anyway,.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to 7 daying this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. There are some issues on the way the City is really ‘planned’.
Flyingroc Chung: no
Aliasi Stonebender: none here./
Flyingroc Chung: k, I really gotta go, sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you FR.
Claude Desmoulins: FR, you can go.
Diderot Mirabeau: sure bye FR
Sudane Erato: bye Roc!
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, you can keep talking 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need 50 members on the RA, with a quorum of at least 2 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol ty Claude.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the current sim worked basically like this….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA set the overall zoning policies
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guild decided on urban planning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and architectural style
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to conform to the zoning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Now this bill talks about a “sim planning committee”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either role ? zoning, or urban planning ? can be outsourced.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem there.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What this proposal means is that BOTH get outsourced?
Claude Desmoulins: Gilde and RA would have oversight.
Aliasi Stonebender: I think it’s more “request for proposals”, but the RA and Guilde have final approval over it.
Claude Desmoulins: DOn’t try to plan a city in a legislative session.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I know ? that’s what committees are for 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: there’s a difference between planning and setting out overall objectives of how we want Neualtenburg to expand and develop
Claude Desmoulins: Hence the sim planning committee 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But committes can also get replaced by outsourced entities ? no problems there!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Diderot, that’s the idea I wanted to make clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this comittee will start working on what and when?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is “how N’burg should expand and develop”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another thing is “what style, what theme, what buildings, how should the roads meet, how to integrate with current sim”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Will seperate proposals be outsourced?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *separate
Claude Desmoulins: Once the RA and Guild approve the general proposal as ooutlined in the bill, the sim planning committee would be responsible for drafting a map,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, Claude, but it’s too vague.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is being mean.
Claude Desmoulins: Then RA and Guild have to approve it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn is bringing up soe good points… I think this bill needs a second look.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think I have the *original* proposal for N’burg.
Claude Desmoulins: Read my old expansion thread in the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the extension of just the proposal ? not the full document which then became the Prospectus! ? was quite more than: “The new sim should be contiguous with the existing sim. It should include a public amphitheatre.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude ? that thread, or at least parts of it, should be part of the bill.
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’t want to lay out the whole process as I envisioned it in thefirst bill ,for fear of beaing accused of pusing expansion too fast.
Claude Desmoulins: *pushing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Never fear that 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll all be here defending you 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… well…
Claude Desmoulins: You’re not whom I’m scared of, Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: others could be accused of that
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: pushing too fast, hell claude, I think we should have expanded awhile back, but you know, I’m crazy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see how _you_ could be accused of that when considering your faction’s platform 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Aliasi, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Diderot is *quite* right 😉
Sudane Erato: ahhh… and I’m the dissentor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll be happy to amend the bill to reflect more of what I put in my original expansion proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude ? so the idea is just to comission a *STUDY* on how we should expand? Is that it?
Claude Desmoulins: The amphitheatre was juyst an idea. I think a second sim needs some public space.
Sudane Erato: a study might be a good way to label it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Claude Desmoulins: I still also think that if we go ahead and plan a second sim, we might get financial commitments up front that would help defray costs.
Claude Desmoulins: I also think there are citizens chomping at the bit to get this thing on the table and we should let them present their vision(s)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s put it this way. I think that this bill should be slightly amended to be a “Call for Studies on Expansion” 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Budget for this?
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the difference between a study and a proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, doing a study takes time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A study is government’s usual way of stalling something but presenting the media and the public with thick binders crammed full of ideas, none of which they compromise on following 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: A study could look into issues such as what other private sims have done for their second sim or do a survey of prospective residents as to their expectations .. as I see it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops, I forgot this goes on record ? LOL
Sudane Erato: haha
Aliasi Stonebender: Heh, no reason to not be honest in THIS government.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: To be honest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Doing a study is preliminary work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it really does take time
Claude Desmoulins: If we just ask for opinions,. we’ll go round and round forever.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since you don’t know if in the future your study will be the basis for future proposals, its work wasted.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *it’s
Aliasi Stonebender: I think asking for ideas is good, but I don’t think this bill does it very well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about sponsoring a panel?
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll start a forum thread, although I’m not sure what we’ll really get out of it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I read this bill as being really the proposal for the new sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only leaving the date open.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For that, well, I insist that it’s too vague.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just two things are mentioned: it should be contiguous; it should have an amphitheatre.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s not enough.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should mention MUCH more 😀
Claude Desmoulins: What else does it need?
Diderot Mirabeau: guidelines as to how the landscape should support a specific proportion of zoning for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my, I really *do* have to see if I can find the oldest ‘proposal requests’ for N’burg…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s a start, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: how the integration should be done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. with the existing sim
Sudane Erato: and how do we arrive at those guidelines?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. “We want 60% residential, 20% commercial, and 20% public land” or something concrete.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) By creating the SIM Planning Commitee *first*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) By comissioning a study 🙂
Sudane Erato: i see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) By doing a workshop/panel/forum discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) Eventually, if the RA is willing, to delegate it to someone 😉
Claude Desmoulins: SPC should be Guildemeister/ lRA/someone from SC/ who else?
Diderot Mirabeau: an outsider with experience in second sims?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn ,would you be willing to put up a draft of what the study should do?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the pre-proposal SPC only *needs* to be RA.
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes SPC .. was thinking of the panel
Claude Desmoulins: Then what’s the diff between the SPC and the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude, sure, it’s just picking up one of gazillions of forum posts… every month, the Lindens set up one, for instance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: cut & paste legalese .. ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘rough guidelines’ are just the RA’s job.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the RA may *wish* to invite other governmental entities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but is not *required* to do so.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll do a forum thread,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, there is a solution picked.
Claude Desmoulins: If we have a panel, who should be on it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This time, the solution will be evaluated by the *Guild*.
Sudane Erato: as to impact, perhaps…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, the Guild *can* invite others to discuss the aesthetics, the urban planning, the building style, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But they’re not *required* to do so.
Sudane Erato: sure
Sudane Erato: the fiancial impact 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, there is no *need* for a “mixed” ‘panel of juries’ or so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL example…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the people who open up a public contest which has US federal / or Europeapn funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: are not the same that sit in the jury approving the contest winners
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and are definitely not the same that propose solutions 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in some cases, you can delegate some tasks….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. outsource them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like: if you don’t know how to do a proposal to build a nuclear power plant, you hire aq company to write the guidelines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That company, of course, can’t compete then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither can they be called to sit as jury.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘original’ idea in Nburg was a BIT like that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The guidelines come from RA
Claude Desmoulins: Someone knows how to do a proposal. NBurg exists, after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the proposal comes from Guild (or is approved by Guild)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m even saying more than that, Claude ? I think that the RA is *more than able* to set up the guidelines by themselves, and *not* outsource the ‘study’ for the proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: HOWEVER; the RA *can* (if they prefer/wish/vote so) do the outsourcing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s their, uh, prerrogative
Aliasi Stonebender: I need to run, but quick opinion from the SC before I go: is the whole “divide a parcel into small ones for citizenship purposes” thing…
Claude Desmoulins: So you’re proposing an internal RA process to claify considerably the parameters.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Likewise, I also think that among the Guild, we have qualified builders, architects, RL urban planners and landscape artists that can set up a good proposal. But, of course, the Guild is able to outsource that all.
Claude Desmoulins: *clarify
Aliasi Stonebender: … part of the alrerady-established ability to modify parcels as needed, or will a bill be required?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack. You ask good questions, Aliasi.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: I try, I try.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d prefer to have it as a bill.
Claude Desmoulins: I would think that if the guild can modify parcels, the guild can modify parcels,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: So why do we need a bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, as an answer to Aliasi: a bill is NOT required.
Sudane Erato: we can modify any but the P280 parcels
Claude Desmoulins: Essentially the question is is there a minimum parcel size for the sim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless for some reason the plots suddenly violate the existing zoning, lol
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: oh right!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that in truth a bill won’t be *required*.
Aliasi Stonebender: … and considering that I threw up dividing one of the 280 parcels as an idea… well, I’ll write a bill so we have somethign solid, but I’ll work on the supposition that we can modify any plots BUT the 280 series.
Sudane Erato: well there are clauses in the covenant which would be…. no take that back
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane. Aliasi’s question is REALLy good and so hard to answer with 100% assurance 😉
Sudane Erato: I think its quite consistent with the existing covenant
Aliasi Stonebender: But I will include suggested current plots in the “commentary” section of the bill.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, you’re half the active SC right now. I can get 50% assurance.
Claude Desmoulins: So is this in the covenant thatwone cna’t mod p280 lots?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Right. When I’m acting sensibly 🙂
Sudane Erato: not exactly…
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn,
Sudane Erato: but it was the intent of the RA that the 280 plots be reserved to enable city residents to function with such tint prim allocation
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, how’s this.
Sudane Erato: and they ARE very important
Claude Desmoulins: Could the SC preparte an advisory opinion as to…
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll write up a formalization of the p280 situation to go along with the bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, Aliasi 🙂
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: 1)what current law and documents allow and don’t allow as far as plot changes and
Claude Desmoulins: 2) If there isa minimum plot size implied in foundational documents.
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm, actually, that can go hand in hand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew. I’ll try to do my best on 1), but that info is terribly to track.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to 2), I’m almost sure there is no ‘minimum’.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: almost sure is not 100%.
Sudane Erato: i agree
Aliasi Stonebender: I can propose two covenant mods – the one to formalize p280, and a similar one for the “microparcel” idea.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, why don’t we wait for your bill.
Sudane Erato: no one could imagine functioning with anything less than 144
Claude Desmoulins: I need to give a report.
Aliasi Stonebender: except with our public space, one COULD.
Claude Desmoulins: If they want a house.
Sudane Erato: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe.
Aliasi Stonebender: in the sense of “get a 16m^2 plot, place a vendor in the Platz.”
Claude Desmoulins: If they don’t want a house, but just want to be citizens…
Sudane Erato: and that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 16 m2 ! Get your “Impeach Bush Now” sign! AND a free “Citizen of Neualtenburg” plaque in prime plywood!
Aliasi Stonebender: (or run events, or vote, or incorporate your business, when we get to that)
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Claude Desmoulins: 144 at $1.11US is the current minimum de facto
Sudane Erato: hehe… so Rudeen can “Reclaim” thenm 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: per month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: how much smaller should it be de jure?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will feature lovely trees 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: That’s the question.
Claude Desmoulins: I need to make a report.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, since you can’t do plots smaller than 16 m2…
Sudane Erato: not much, really, i should think
Aliasi Stonebender: No, here in Neualtenburg, we only allow impeachment signs of OUR officials.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Aliasi ;(
Sudane Erato: hehe
mezumi Akula: hi
Aliasi Stonebender fires up Photoshop to make “IMPEACH STONEBENDER”, why not be ahead of the curve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That reminds me of something else for the MoCA, but I can talk about that to Diderot & Fletch later.
Diderot Mirabeau: you could sell them Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: In my capacity as LRA I gave a presentation on Neualtenburg to Bryan Mnemonic’s Cyber Culture class at CMSU on Monday.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww how did that go??
Claude Desmoulins: I used skype and didn’t record the audio, sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: By all acoounts pretty well.
Claude Desmoulins: *accounts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wonderful!
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve asked Bryan to talk to his students about their impressions of us and report back.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I hope it will give us some good outside feedback on how new residents see us.
Aliasi Stonebender: alright then, I’m gone for the moment. I’ll post my suggested bill on the forum ASAP.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, Aliasi! thank you 🙂
Sudane Erato: see you Aliasi!
Claude Desmoulins: Let me see if KB or Eugene is online/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙁
Sudane Erato: neither
Sudane Erato: neither is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nor Eugene’s alt…
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll adjourn for lack of enough member(s) to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: Didn’t touch the constitution 🙁
Sudane Erato: 🙂
The meeting closed at 16:41 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 01, 2006

Meeting on 2006-03-01
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the ‘decision’ has to be postponed, of course 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: I turned the recorder on.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the box under the table if you’re on RA.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll start with a report from the Guildmeisterin.
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh… may I interrupt later? I have a ‘special request’ from a group doing a rally who wished to drop by N’burg for 10-15 mins….
Sudane Erato: my report is the “Platz Parcels”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can discuss that later 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Will it need RA action?
Sudane Erato: it indicates that the ro-parceling of the Platz is imminent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the RA should approve ‘public demonstrations’ in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry to interrupt, Sudane
Sudane Erato: and that we will be creating 10 parcels
Sudane Erato: np
Aliasi Stonebender: Are they Neualtenburg citizens?
Sudane Erato: if there are any suggestions about the notes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no)
Sudane Erato: there is also a diagram
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s let Sudane go and hope a quorum is here when Gwyn presents the special request.
Sudane Erato: the biggest issue might be that there are 6 92m2 parcels
Aliasi Stonebender: (sorry, I’ll blather on that topic when we get to it.I’ll be quiet.)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: np 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and notecards still loading for me…. sorry ….
Sudane Erato: 92m2 is smaller than any existing parcel here, except the BangZwang?
Sudane Erato: but considering the institutions with be banks and other service institutions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the hell is the ‘BangZwang’?? rofl
Aliasi Stonebender: hm, although you recall I’m proposing to make them even smaller…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: The BangZwang?
Sudane Erato: Kendras and Ulrikas store
Sudane Erato: immediately opposite us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Is it called that way? 😀
Sudane Erato: something like that 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my… has *anyone’s* notecards rezzed for you yet?!
Sudane Erato: I never get it right 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: well I have them
Aliasi Stonebender: Mine have rezzed just fine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Grrr
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: sometimes it can be a hiccup in the server, Gwyn, try closing and re-opening?
Diderot Mirabeau: anything we can do to help? I can send the text over IM 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good thinking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots on hiccuping on this server 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, Sudane, Aliasi’s proposal calls for even smaller plots. I don’t think 92 m2 is a problem.
Sudane Erato: there is a little tex attachment
Claude Desmoulins: Looking at the arrangement graphic, which is Kendra’s existing store with the blue awning?
Diderot Mirabeau: we have a huge agenda .. perhaps we should be a bit time-conscious .. although of course we don’t have a quorum..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I ask you if there is a suggestion on the notecard regarding the way these parcels are going to be ‘auctioned’? 🙂
Sudane Erato: Kendra will move her existing store
Sudane Erato: the one we just talked avbout
Claude Desmoulins: What about the General Sotre.
Sudane Erato: that will be no longer
Sudane Erato: I have suggested an auction..
Sudane Erato: of 4 of the stores
Claude Desmoulins: IMaintenance of one plot as a general store was a provision of the zoning bill.
Sudane Erato: and I have asked about a mechnaism
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (at last I got the notecards, hooray!)
Sudane Erato: I don’t recall that…. since the general store is built into the Guildhall
Sudane Erato: but if it must be….
Sudane Erato: it must be
Claude Desmoulins: When I say Kendra’s store, I mean the one on the southwest corner next to what I think is Dianne’s
Sudane Erato: it does not seem to me an appropriate use of valuable space
Diderot Mirabeau: Dianne’s is called “Black” if that helps
Claude Desmoulins: There are two stores here.
Sudane Erato: ahhh… that is just a demonstration store
Claude Desmoulins: The first is the store that supplies trees and “building supplies” that can go in the Guildhall underneath.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Claude Desmoulins: There was a provision that I believe the zoning bill maintains to have one store on platz where each citizen may place one vendor.
Sudane Erato: ahhhhh
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: well, certainly we can set one aside
Claude Desmoulins: If we go ahead and set aside a 144 for that, that leaves 1 144 and 2 96’s in each auction group.
Sudane Erato: yes, it does….
Sudane Erato: and I am not fixed about the number in each auction
Claude Desmoulins: What about a sealed bid mechanism?
Sudane Erato: I just don’t want to seel too low, for lack of buyers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry…. I need to go afk for a few minutes…. RL work issues, hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, with that addition, Claude…
Sudane Erato: I take it that everyone is informed
Sudane Erato: and we should go on
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec, let me look for Kendra before we move back to 4-11.
Sudane Erato: Lucid, did you get an agenda from the box?
Lucid Vindaloo: Yes 🙂 Thank you 🙂
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: No sign yet.
Sudane Erato: no
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn was one of the persons who had concerns with the original bill. I’d like her to have a chance to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: Does anyone else have comments on the second draft.
Sudane Erato: i think its great
Claude Desmoulins: If we approve the micoplots proposal, this will be less important since we would have room to add citizens without more land.,

Diderot Mirabeau: it looks very good now .. I was just wondering .. do we not expect the proposals to contain a draft map of the terrain and placement of major public buildings for example?
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve mentioned I think 4-11 should be okay.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we absolutely need a draft map at the proposal stage or can we wait to draw a grid?
Diderot Mirabeau: well I’d be happy with either solution I am just thinking giving people the opportunity to do a rough draft of the map might open up a possibility for greater creativity … but I don’t what makes prospective city planners tick
Diderot Mirabeau: *know
Claude Desmoulins: I would say it would be optional but not required. I don’t want to scare off someone with an idea because their not comfortable with graph paper.
Claude Desmoulins: *they’re
Diderot Mirabeau: sounds good to me
Diderot Mirabeau: just good to be clear that we don’t expect it I suppose … another question .. the 50 / 40 / 10 distribution thing .. does anyone know how that compares roughly to f.x. the existing distribution in Nuealtenburg?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: I’d have to research that…
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec.
Sudane Erato: public land, much higher
Diderot Mirabeau: just a rough estimate maybe?
Sudane Erato: commercial land… Much lower
Aliasi Stonebender: On the other hand, a new sim wouldn’t need a duplicate of the already-existing public facilities, so it works.
Diderot Mirabeau: so Neualtenburg now is much higher on public land than the proposed expansion?
Diderot Mirabeau: true Aliasi
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: abosolutely
Sudane Erato: and it has a very tiny proportion of commercial land
Diderot Mirabeau: I guess the decision on the distribution also ties in a bit with our expectations as to our future potential
Sudane Erato: its really mostly residential, where commercial is allowed
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: Sudane do you have an impression of whether many interested parties for residence have been discouraged by the present availability of plots?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah …
Sudane Erato: I think not
Sudane Erato: we continuously lose people, as well as gain them
Sudane Erato: so available land is pretty steady
Aliasi Stonebender: although I don’t think it would hurt, since most of the GOOD plots are nigh-continuously occupied, which suggests there is more demand than we can meet now.
Diderot Mirabeau: okay … and I suppose the higher commercial percentage in the new sim .. 40% .. is in expectation that our new initiatives will attract more commercial activity to Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: well… maybe
Claude Desmoulins: 50 /40/ 10 was just an idea.
Sudane Erato: Diderot, yes!
Sudane Erato: commercial represents the interesting expansion possibilities
Sudane Erato: residential is a steady kind of revenue
Sudane Erato: and public is none

Diderot Mirabeau: its really hard to do such estimates without having some idea of demand and f.x. the distribution of other sims … but I imagine we should be able to attract a fair degree of new residents as well considering my own experience on first land ..
Claude Desmoulins: Particularly if we do incorporation and registration along with a banking system.
Sudane Erato: yes…. and these figures are certtainly adjustable
Sudane Erato: not set in stone
Claude Desmoulins: I think a new sim needs some public land.
Sudane Erato: of course!
Sudane Erato: just not as much as here
Diderot Mirabeau: well .. I think personally I’d be inclined to prefer a sim proposal that divides the residential and commercial zones up to be pretty insulated from each other
Claude Desmoulins: There’s also a tendency to think of commercial as vendors.
Sudane Erato: well… hehe… you should submit one 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes Claude … commercial might just be a corporate hq .. a financial operation or even a builder’s workshop
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why Ikept residential higher than commercial, so we’d have more people than magic boxes.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’m pulling a few strings around trying to get people interested in the wider SL 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: I suppose it would be open for non-residents as well, right?
Diderot Mirabeau: *non-citizens
Sudane Erato: which?
Diderot Mirabeau: the call for proposals
Sudane Erato: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry for that… I’m going to need another 15 minutes)
Claude Desmoulins: Not as written
Diderot Mirabeau feels sorry for Gwyneth
Diderot Mirabeau: ah okay I see … I have misunderstood something then …
Diderot Mirabeau: yes of course I see now it says citizens
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps citizens could partner with non-citizens on a proposal.
Diderot Mirabeau: should have taken note of that before .. I was just thinking .. the call for proposals could in itself be a good part of a marketing campaign .. sort of an attention getter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hudreset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry for the spam!
Diderot Mirabeau: and perhaps get people interested in moving in …
Sudane Erato: yes… interesting
Diderot Mirabeau: for example if somebody out there has already bought a good deal of land say 8192 to establish his or her own “theme park”
Diderot Mirabeau: this person might conceivably see some benefits in submitting a proposal on the basis of his theme park and offer to build on the base of that ..
Diderot Mirabeau: sort of like Kendra’s Birka initiative .. only for a non-citizen …
Diderot Mirabeau: of course I don’t know if that’s something we would be interested in
Diderot Mirabeau: and then again … it’s not too difficult to become a citizen .. and with the extended time frame …
Diderot Mirabeau: I’m just thinking aloud here .. do you have any strong opinions on the question of the citizenship requirement?

Claude Desmoulins: I think a citizen needs to be a part of each proposal…
Claude Desmoulins: It’s our expansion, after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would be a way to get more citizens, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: my thought as well 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and well… with Aliasi’s microplots proposal….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s not as if it’s TOO EXPENSIVE to become a citizen!
Diderot Mirabeau: yes .. it’s really not that hard to become one
Diderot Mirabeau: I concur
Diderot Mirabeau: or rest my case or … whatever
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn are you ok with this version?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No issues with me, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll table temporarily since there’s no quorum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: I was just wondering .. although we do not have a quorum .. would it be an idea to have a guiding vote .. just so that if someone shows up .. we can just walk them through the results of the guiding vote .. and get it over with quickly adding their vote?
Diderot Mirabeau: this may be highly irregular procedure .. 🙂
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: everything about NBurg…….
Aliasi Stonebender: we may wind up having to do the 7-day discussion and vote via email.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s hold and go to seven day if we can’t get aquorum
Aliasi Stonebender: which, BTW, you all got my new address, right?
Diderot Mirabeau: yup
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye. I’ve even tested it out today!
Diderot Mirabeau: so that’s why you apologised for the spam earlier 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: the old provider I used was pretty falling down, so I switched to gmail…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I was testing a HUD attachment, Diderot 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes the need for knowledge remains as strong as ever 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: gmail sure works for me
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Tangent : FPS check !!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 5 here 😀
Sudane Erato: 4
Aliasi Stonebender: 13.1
Claude Desmoulins: 1.2
Aliasi Stonebender: … I rock.
Diderot Mirabeau: ahem … how do I see it?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You do, Aliasi 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau blushes in embarassment
Aliasi Stonebender: ctrl-shift-1
Diderot Mirabeau: thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm Diderot ? yes, ctrl-shift-1
Diderot Mirabeau: is it the sim fps?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
Aliasi Stonebender: no,
Aliasi Stonebender: the top FPS.
Diderot Mirabeau: 4.6
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sim FPS should be around 45 these days, always.
Sudane Erato: mine is 43
Diderot Mirabeau: same here
Sudane Erato: dilation 97
Claude Desmoulins: yep.
Sudane Erato: not great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, lol ? can we get back on the iscussion, please? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *discussion
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, please.
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve been an hour and not gone past the FIRST ITEM.
Aliasi Stonebender: not that we can do much on the others, yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: well… 4-14 is already in place
Aliasi Stonebender: hm?
Sudane Erato: so there’s not much to approve
Sudane Erato: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good!
Sudane Erato: 4-13
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Aliasi Stonebender: yes and no, Sudane.
Claude Desmoulins: Is 4-4 within guild authority?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘yes and no’…
Aliasi Stonebender: we have it in place, but no law authorizing it – and the prohibitions would require a modified covenant, would they not?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s back up.
Aliasi Stonebender: the point behind the bill was to formally OK it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s discuss 4-13.
Aliasi Stonebender: kind of the same thing with 4-14.
Sudane Erato: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on both cases…
Claude Desmoulins: I see this ,as I believe Aliasi does, as formalizing esisting practice re the prim farm.
Claude Desmoulins: *existing
Aliasi Stonebender: also
Aliasi Stonebender: it establishes the “covenant” of that sort of land, and that’s useful in order to use it for microplots.
Sudane Erato: back
Aliasi Stonebender: basically, while we do all kinds of things irregularly, it doesn’t hurt to follow established practice where we can, eh?
Claude Desmoulins: In that case it would be important to designate what parts of 4-13 are actually in the new covenant.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack…. now I have to go afk again…. sorry guys
Sudane Erato: 4-13 is at this time implemented just like it sauys..
Aliasi Stonebender: he actual territory of p280 itself may have no building done on it other than trees and other natural objects, to preserve an “undeveloped park” look.
Sudane Erato: says
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s pretty much the covenant, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: For example the building prohibition would be part of a no bvuild covenant which we could then apply elsewhere.
Sudane Erato: actually, the \deed says nothing may be put there
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, claude.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s what I thought.
Aliasi Stonebender: nothing? ah. I was under the impression trees were permitted.
Sudane Erato: well.. you know… its really not so relevant… so long as its trees
Sudane Erato: it just lowers your available prims
Sudane Erato: so why put anything?
Claude Desmoulins: Is everyone OK with this? (4-13_
Aliasi Stonebender: Aesthetics, Sudane. 😉
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: and I’m okay with it, obviously.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s talk about 4-14.
Sudane Erato: I think 4-14 is a great proposal
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to propose an amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: That we use P180 for the micro plot lot, after putting in a right of way for a road to the south border of the sim.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has already figured out that this would leave us with 47 microplors.
Sudane Erato: well, I’ve put in the right of way
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: but Eugene’s departure.
Sudane Erato: P190 is free too
Diderot Mirabeau: has he actually abandoned his land?
Sudane Erato: and P195 is mine…. which can easily be adjusted
Sudane Erato: he said he left SL
Sudane Erato: I presume he abandoned… he said nothing to me
Aliasi Stonebender: One reason I left the actual plot vague was because I felt that could be amended, or decided by the Guild.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: hm. if he doesn’t make his next payment, we’ll know.
Sudane Erato: thats a good idea
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: he has money on deposit
Claude Desmoulins: We need a road somewhere on the south side if wewend up expanding that way.
Aliasi Stonebender: oh.
Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps we had better wait with repossession until next month’s payment? sometimes people do change their minds .. it’s been known to happen before, right? 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, thats a good point
Claude Desmoulins: *we end
Sudane Erato: hehe… ok
Aliasi Stonebender: IF we wind up expanding that way, Claude.
Sudane Erato: its not really the prefered way (by me)
Claude Desmoulins: I said if.
Sudane Erato: but we should keep the option available
Diderot Mirabeau: not by me either … I like my view as it is .. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: I would say the West is the best option
Claude Desmoulins: If there’s no road the cliffs are _permanent_
Sudane Erato: thats really a convention of NBUrg
Sudane Erato: to have roads everywhere
Sudane Erato: its certainly not necessary
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it’s more a way of contributing to the theme. And I’d say it wouldn’t be bad to continue havign roads as a “buffer zone” in other sims, but that’s not part of the matter at hand.
Sudane Erato: yes… i agree
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we amend the amendment to allow the guild to pick the plot?
Sudane Erato: that would be good
Claude Desmoulins: The NW viertel plot tucked right under the wall is another good possibility.
Sudane Erato: truthfully, there may not be a single area designated
Aliasi Stonebender: that was my thought, sudane.
Sudane Erato: perhaps bits here and there would be better
Claude Desmoulins: I do think, for the record that we need at least one road/path that crosses the southern border.
Aliasi Stonebender: the idea was we could convert any given unsold piece of land into microplots, or shave bits off.
Sudane Erato: yes
Lucid Vindaloo: Good to meet you all 🙂 I have to head out for the now 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: My concern with west is that we have a major road that can’t, aesthetically, go 100 meters into a new sim and then end 🙂
Sudane Erato: Claude, I will make sure there is right of way to the south
Lucid Vindaloo: Thank you, its been very interesting checking this all out 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: thanks for coming Lucid … see you later I hope 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye Lucid 🙂
Lucid Vindaloo: Take care 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let me check on enfdra once more.
Diderot Mirabeau: well that could be part of the challenge for those submitting a proposal 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: it could lead to the amphitheatre if nothing else …

Claude Desmoulins: I see a possibility for the west road being a major artery that connects, far into the future, a whole group of sims. (I’m sounding like Ulkika now )
Sudane Erato: well, yes.. I agree with that
Diderot Mirabeau: the Imperial Highway
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I’m back again!
Sudane Erato: wb 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: don’t be sorry for that .. we like to have you here 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Current bill says at least one unsold plot. Do we need to change that to give Guild flexibility in shaving off plot here and there?
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: I don’t think so… since a plot is not defined
Claude Desmoulins: I read the current language as requiring one entire plot to be converted to microplots.
Sudane Erato: I can make a plot in a moment 🙂
Sudane Erato: if you wish
Claude Desmoulins: Fair enough.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, that’s the sneaky thing.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: its really a matter of administration…
Claude Desmoulins: Then we must define the difference between a microplot and a normal plot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4-15 anyone? 🙂
Sudane Erato: having all the microplots in one place makes them easier to keep track of
Claude Desmoulins: 4-14 references both.
Sudane Erato: a microplot is 16m2 and not allowed any objects
Aliasi Stonebender: Claude, the difference is already defined.
Sudane Erato: yes, i agree
Aliasi Stonebender: “a microplot is a …” what Sudane said.
Aliasi Stonebender: the bill *is* the definition.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Is a conventional plot anything larger than 16m2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh.
Aliasi Stonebender: A conventional plot is anything under the usual covenants.
Aliasi Stonebender: the trick here is I don’t define the microplots by size.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember in the olden days that there was a limit on how small a plot should be… 🙂
Sudane Erato: I will dtermine that…. if I think the practical person can build on it
Aliasi Stonebender: I define them by COVENANT.
Sudane Erato: good
Diderot Mirabeau: so we have conventional plots and covenantial plots 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: And everything but P280 and the microplots is under the standard covenant?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol, Diderot
Sudane Erato: at the moment it is 92m2/ 23 prims
Aliasi Stonebender: exactly. And microplots and p280 are basically the same, save in who can buy each.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, things will really be interesting with SL 1.9…. no more need for ‘prim farms’!
Claude Desmoulins: Bill says…”divided into 16m^2 portions, priced accordingly. These “microplots” ”
Aliasi Stonebender: well, yes and no Gwyn
Sudane Erato: which means, its not the size that defines them
Aliasi Stonebender: you have to reduce the prim allocation elsewhere, so you still have effective prim farms, just…. without the farm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, of course, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, you’ll sell plots by the number of prims in it ? not the size!
Sudane Erato: :(… sounds worse to administer
Claude Desmoulins: butthe bill text defines microplots as 16m2, doesn’t it?
Diderot Mirabeau envisions the Saharah desert in Second Life
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, perhaps a bit harder, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: yes Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it also means, for instance, that you can get prims off the roads… and use them elsewhere.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, claude, but you don’t see what I’m getting at
Sudane Erato: but not the size of other plots
Aliasi Stonebender: the only difference between the prim farm and a microplot is the bit that says who can buy each.
Aliasi Stonebender: The only difference between those and a normal plot is the covenant they are under.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Aliasi 🙂 That’s why it’s so neat a definition 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec….
Aliasi Stonebender: The entire point of this bill is to use already-existing things, instead of making wacky new definitions of citizenship.
Aliasi Stonebender: we could do this NOW without the bill
Sudane Erato: i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: Could we say, ” It is prohibited for a citizen owning a microplot to own any other Neualtenburg lot.”?
Aliasi Stonebender: the only thing the bill does is (a) specify the covenant and who can buy) and (b) mandate that it be done.
Aliasi Stonebender: That seems reasonable, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I inferred that from the text: “It is prohibited for any citizen to own both a microplot and a normal plot, or to own more than one microplot.”
Claude Desmoulins: That would clarify it for me.
Diderot Mirabeau: or “upon buying other land in Neualtenburg the citizen forfeits his rigt to the microplot which then reverts back into city ownership free of charge”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do you think that Aliasi’s current text is not enough? “It is prohibited for any citizen to own both a microplot and a normal plot, or to own more than one microplot.”
Aliasi Stonebender: the basic idea is to keep people who have a normal plot from buying them, or for some possible person form buying up all the microplots.
Diderot Mirabeau: no it should suffice .. my addition only gives us back the microplot for free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Diderot… hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: and that’s really not needed
Claude Desmoulins: As long as we have a common understanding that a conventional plot is anything larger than 16 m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, this is all a bit ‘temporary’… with new groups… and new tools for setting different prim allocations… all this has to be reviewed anyway!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since that is still in the realm of speculation…
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have no quorum and the Guild can do this anyway, why not let them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable to me, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll pass enabling legislation if we ever get enough people 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or use the 7-day vote.
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Aliasi Stonebender: yep. we should all be able to do this by email.
Claude Desmoulins: The last time we had a seven day vote, no one discussed for the first four dayss.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves SC sceptre in benevolent admission of this issue*
Sudane Erato: and sometimes its the opposite 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: We can go to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, can you tell us about your special request.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As some of you might recall…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg happened to host some ‘rally events’
Aliasi Stonebender: your bill claude, you have to poke people. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A group lead by Lenin Camus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is doing a rally for the Pro-Choice? group (re: abortion)
Diderot Mirabeau: quite a radical name
Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL-wide
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and they would like to drop by N’burg for 10-15 minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, since this is a ‘public’ thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although there are precedents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it needs the explicit City approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, this is going to happen next Sunday.
Claude Desmoulins: I know the anti Iraq policy rally was seen by many as a galvanizing and defining moment for NBurg. But…
Sudane Erato: I certainly support it
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m not real wild about non-citizens using Neualtenburg.
Aliasi Stonebender: in that fashion
Aliasi Stonebender: it’d be different if a citizen was hosting it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are always ‘buts’, Claude, that is why this is something the RA has to approve or not.
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see why not .. isn’t it our ideal to facilitate public discourse in democratic fashions anyway? alhtough I fear the organisers may be a bit disappointed with the volume of traffic here maybe?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I guess they’re just going to take pictures.
Claude Desmoulins: …We’re just starting to shake the socialist image.
Diderot Mirabeau: ah
Sudane Erato: hehe…. that will take some time 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe not all Pro-Choice? guys are socialists 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Lenin’s socialist bit doesn’t enter into it for me, Claude.
Diderot Mirabeau: this is not a partisan issue .. it is a question of allowing a public space to facilitate democratic activity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Diderot, thus their request.
Aliasi Stonebender: A *neualtenburg* public space *neualtenburg citizens* pay for.
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, it’d be totally different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Aliasi ? you’re definitely right on that. It’s unarguable.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t mean socialist as much as radical leftist
Sudane Erato: but if we support the issue… we may wish to support the event
Aliasi Stonebender: if Lenin was a citizen and wanted to use his own land, or the Platz, as a citizen hosting an event where he lives.
Sudane Erato: by lending our space
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I’m pro-choice myself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Sudane ? even if we don’t support the issue at all.
Sudane Erato: perhaps…
Diderot Mirabeau: oh yes I agree with that Aliasi .. and that’s why I wanted to point out that supporting a political event would be a way of promoting our founding principles …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Aliasi is raising the real issue here: should Neualtenburg host events by non-Neualtenburgers, as a principle, or not?
Sudane Erato: but if we do… that casts us in a supporting role
Diderot Mirabeau: yes .. and if so .. is there a limit to what kind of issues we will extend this support to
Aliasi Stonebender: Diderot, while Neualtenburg is a political experiment
Claude Desmoulins: As am I, but if we explicitly allow them, do we send a message that we are unwelcoming to those wh dfeel differentl;y?
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve been mostly about OUR politics
Aliasi Stonebender: not taking RL political stances. Ulrika and the SDF historically had SL-wide and RL stances, but not th ecity as a whole.
Diderot Mirabeau: I say if we allow one group to use our public space on an issue .. then the other group should be allowed in as well .. ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you…. I’m not sure if any of their members *are* citizens or not! Actually, I’ll participate on the rally as well, although NOT with a leftist sign lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Diderot ? this would set another precedent.
Aliasi Stonebender: You said Lenin Camus was leading it, that’s the only one I worried about. But if you, Gwyn, wanted to host it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I have another question… if SOME of the people on the group are N’burg citizens, but others aren’t, would you still have an argument with that, Aliasi?
Aliasi Stonebender: but specifically sponsored by you, I would have no trouble at all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm?
Aliasi Stonebender: For me, it’s a matter of the ones organizing it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
Claude Desmoulins: And where do we draw the line between political speech and griefing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, this will be no griefing!
Sudane Erato: why would they grief here?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Griefing = unauthorized
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as in irregular, mob, etc
Sudane Erato: that would spoil the point
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m gathering this is more just popping in, taking some pictures and maybe a little chat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, the issue is more Aliasi’s point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Diderot Mirabeau: as long as it is not speech which is in violation of the TOS?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still it would be a non-Neualtenburg-organised event, no matter how we phrase the question.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes. My sympathies are with the cause they’re promoting, and I’d gladly offer my own PERSONAL plot for them to pop in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not public space.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand.
Aliasi Stonebender: exactly.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d lmost rather say that the Platz is public space and that as long as you don’t do anything wrong there…
Diderot Mirabeau: but public space should be even more open ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ..we won’t exclude people or invite them based on position.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it *is* an interesting issue 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, very
Diderot Mirabeau: well people can TP in freely can’t they?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I feel pretty much divided among your opinions, you are *both* right!
Diderot Mirabeau: of their own individual accord?
Diderot Mirabeau: and they can wear any attachment that they like and say anything they like which is not in violation of the TOS?
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Diderot, we have what we might call in my business law class I’m taking in RL an “invitee” relationship for specific purposes.
Claude Desmoulins: If we Okthis or forbid it, we must pass judgement on any group wanting to use public spaces in the sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Diderot, they can. But we have provisions somewhere, that public rallies, demonstrations, etc., need specific RA authorization.
Aliasi Stonebender: Also
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah okay
Diderot Mirabeau: “in the forums”
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d damn well want to authorize it if they’re intending ot make it seem like Neualtenburg supports them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where = the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I draw the line there, Aliasi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This should *not* be seen as a way of ‘endorsing’ a specific view by Neualtenburg.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather make it seem that the city government itself is neutral to their political position.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, I fully agree, Claude.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree .. but for example gathering in front of the NY city hall does not carry any connotation of the city supporting an issue does it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather…. I would even go so far as to *insist* on that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Diderot.
Sudane Erato: thats right
Claude Desmoulins: But for their right to express themselves in our public spaces within the various TOS
Aliasi Stonebender: but if the action is limited to porting in and taking some screenshots, as diderot says… people can port in freely, can’t really do much about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can definitely kick people out of the sim for ‘unruly’ behaviour!
Diderot Mirabeau: as long as they do not disturb the peace or prevent other visitors from enjoying our vendors 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well… “unorganized”, “unauthorized” rallying…. would fall under that subject, I’m afraid.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think we should be officially silent unless they “act up”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what should we tell them?
Sudane Erato: 🙂 “silence”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Claude Desmoulins: It’s a public space. If anything.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: so we are afraid to issue a specific permit for fear of being associated with their views?
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: its not fear…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I read it, the argument Aliasi presented is that this would be something organised by a non-Neualtenburg group.
Sudane Erato: it is maybe we should not associate with any view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that is the issue.
Diderot Mirabeau: can’t we just produce a statement pronouncing the official policy of supporting any legitimate political expression that stays within the TOS and founding documents but do not otherwise want to be associated with any cause being promoted on our grounds
Claude Desmoulins: Not afraid, but desiring not to offend or ostracize those who feel differently.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s a good idea.
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: Gwyneth .. something you might be able to draft?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Diderot… in a sense, we already have that. The only question is that the RA needs to approve those events if they’re to be held in public space, AND the City can designate a specific place for them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could search the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Aliasi Stonebender: For maximum irony, we make them hold it in the church.
Sudane Erato: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The City could have that, yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: rolf
Claude Desmoulins: Or the biergarten 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: oooh, even better.
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s pretty German, when you get down to it. RALLY IN THE BAR
Sudane Erato: we should charge for that beer
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe we need a nonbinding resolution expressing what Diderot said.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you… this idea of ‘the City designating a spot’…. was meant to give us an opportunity to leave some types of demonstrations outside city walls, for instance…. due to lag…
Diderot Mirabeau: I say the only reason why the RA might choose to decline a rally would be for fear of it eliciting violent confrontation, TOS violation or breach of the peace
Claude Desmoulins: Right. I can see it from a crowd and traffic and lag control issue.
Sudane Erato: yes… that’s right 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, this would mean we would need to assign our police force to control them, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bond harrington to the rescue!
Sudane Erato: hehe… Bond!.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: … and purely as private citizen action, I could set them all on fire.
Claude Desmoulins: We could approve it with an explanatory note that approval or lack thereof is related to lag and simulator resource issues…
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… if the designated spot is part of the N’burg Raumnutzer group… it should be easy to ‘control’.
Clint Turner: hi, is this open event
Claude Desmoulins: ,,,not to an endorsement or lack thereof of a particular viewe.
Diderot Mirabeau: sure Clint if you turn off the walkman 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Clint 🙂 All Representative Assembly meetings are open to attend!
Clint Turner: no problem 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Not cicitzens may liten in but not addrss the ,eeting.
Clint Turner: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, can’t type tonight. My fingers must be lageing 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: sticky keys? 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: that happens to me all the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What should be told to these guys?
Aliasi Stonebender: “You can show up, but we don’t endorse you, you don’t imply we do, and if you cause lag troubles we kick you out.”
Aliasi Stonebender: but nicer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And which place should they use?
Diderot Mirabeau: official statement clarifying our offical policy on the issue …. issuing a specific permit .. explaining that we do not wish to affiliate ourselves with any political viewpoint .. and that refusals will only be given on the fear of lag and so on
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: well, the platz probably not… is the icerink kendra’s, or still the city’s?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I can *try* to fish that out from the forums….
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. Let’s take the official approval to 7 day.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: its Kendra’s…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh on 7-day approval
Claude Desmoulins: I think Kendra’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since this is next *Sunday*.
Diderot Mirabeau: didn’t you say *next* Sunday Gwyneth? 🙂
Sudane Erato: but she built it for use buy the city and its guests
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I did!
Diderot Mirabeau: oh I always confuse that
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t have quorum until/unless Kendra shows.
Aliasi Stonebender: ah. well, then, church or biergarten, I’d say.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: I use coming and then next
Gwyneth Llewelyn: their choice then 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: church would be a blast
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: not literally of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see if I can get Lenin here….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah! He’s available!
Diderot Mirabeau: it would be sure to provoke the opposing group to do a rally here the following week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I tp him in?
Sudane Erato: dwell 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: the neualtenburg way
Aliasi Stonebender: heh, that would be th ebest irony.
Diderot Mirabeau: we don’t need no stinking camping chairs
Claude Desmoulins: That wouldgoive us the opportunity to demonstrate our political neutrality .
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: we make the pro-choice socialist rally in the church, and the inevitible pro-life response in the biergarden.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… can I tp Lenin in
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve got no problems.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have him understand our requirements?
Claude Desmoulins: Sure.
Sudane Erato: nor me, tho he’s not suppoed to talk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can address him, though 🙂

Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Claude Desmoulins: Can weeinvite him to explain his proposal/request?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He’s floating….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … just slightly to my left 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean right. Oops.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Lenin!
Lenin Camus: Hello.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lenin, we’ve been discussion your group’s request.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have somewhat of a compromise, lol
Lenin Camus: Alright, great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, I’m talking… although I shouldn’t…. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as I understand it, you’d be around just 10-15 mins ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Take some pictures, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then move to the next rally point?
Sudane Erato: and, how many people?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, how many do you expect?
Lenin Camus: We’re not sure about the number of people yet. We’re estimating around 30 to 40
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ouch, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that will be hard to fit inside the Biergarten!
Diderot Mirabeau: excellent
Lenin Camus: We may split up the participants into different locations to reduce lag.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, half on the Church, half on the Biergarten? 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: we should have our volunteer citizen police force ready then to keep everything orderly and offer guided tours 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lenin Camus: Ulrika said that the SDF would back us, so I believe some Nualtenberg residents will be involved in the march.
Claude Desmoulins: Interesting to see wjo chooses which location.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Diderot
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, we’re wanting to keep people from clogging up the main Platz, if people come in on usual business.
Lenin Camus: We have hired security incase anyone gets out of hand, so don’t worry about that.
Diderot Mirabeau: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. Militia!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: Lenin did you drop the book?
Lenin Camus: Nope.
Sudane Erato: 🙂 undercover 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… one thing you have to understand, Lenin.
Lenin Camus: Nope to Diderot, yes to Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Officially, the City of Neualtenburg will not endorse your position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. we remain fully neutral
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll ask for orderly behaviour (which is a natural request)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that you stick to some pre-arranged spots.
Lenin Camus: Of course, we’re just looking for some interesting places to march, and Nualtenberg is one of those places.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a reason beyond lag.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is also ‘control’ ? we have some public spaces, but most are private.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, while eventually some members of the SDF may support the rally, they’ll do it under their own name ? and not speak for neualtenburg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is important
Lenin Camus: Yes, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because ? who knows? ? other people might use N’burg for expressing contrary opinions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we should give them all fair chances to use our few public spaces.
Lenin Camus: We don’t want to impede or step on toes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I might add that some people here might offer you using their private spaces as well 🙂 hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that’s their own personal choice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm… 40 people?
Diderot Mirabeau considers what the curator of MoCA would make of an opportunity such as this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As mentioned before, we have two structures that you could use in principle: the Church and the Biergarten.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Lenin Camus: Possibly, but thy’ll probably be split between different locations. Some will be at the welcome area, Democracy Island has offered their Court room and a few other places.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The MoCA could eventually be used as well, I don’t know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I thought 40 people *in Neualtenburg*!
Claude Desmoulins: We haven’t passed anything. It’s still public land at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Claude!
Aliasi Stonebender: True, MoCA is an option.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Three options then.
Diderot Mirabeau: Fletch – our curator – would probably love to do someart event-thing around it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh definitely!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But again ? we have to remind him that he’ll do it on *personal* choice only
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not representing Neualtenburg’s views
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d consider his position to be quite independent actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only ‘view’ that is represented… is the concept that the City, in principle, gives anyone ‘fair chance’ to do their public rallies.
Diderot Mirabeau: but let’s leave that aside
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything I might have missed?
Diderot Mirabeau: no I think you guys are good to go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just take a look at one of the three spots, Lenin…
Lenin Camus: I can’t thank you enough, I really appreciate you donating your space!
Diderot Mirabeau: and we appreciate the dwell …
Diderot Mirabeau laughs diabolically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would probably expect the MoCA to be the best one…. it’s large enough
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Diderot 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Enjoy dwell while we can! This will go away soon.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Church is actually big enough, of course, but, well…. LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Biergarten is fun, but a bit too cramped, if you have over 15 people here.
Lenin Camus: Don’t want to anger any pro-life Christians who might use the Church.
Sudane Erato: I’m sorry folks, but I must go….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Church is rather non-denominational….
Sudane Erato: I’ll leeave the MoCA discussion in Diderot’s capable hands
Diderot Mirabeau: Lenin .. the full name of our curator is Farfletched Ixchel .. if you want to stage it in the MoCA have a word with him .. he might be able to wrap something around it if you’d like …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: or we could just talk later
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, the church is a church because that’s what you’d find in a Bavarian town.
Lenin Camus: Will do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think Fletch will like the idea, yes 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: For clarification, we’ve moved 4-11, 4-13 and 4-14 to seven day?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At which time will this take place, 3 PM, Lenin?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I think so, Claude)
Lenin Camus: noon SLT
Lenin Camus: 3PM eastern standard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, noon. Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 8 PM GMT for me, lol. Well, I’ll certainly be around!
Diderot Mirabeau: this is great .. I’m taking my two brothers for a tour of SL at 8 PM CET … this should come in handy
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s talk MoCA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably armed with a Kendra Suit of Armour and a Seburo!
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot?
Lenin Camus: I actually may not be able to make it, as I might have an RL meeting at time for an RL anti-war protest. If I’m not around and you have any questions talk to Renee Ingmann.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Diderot Mirabeau: well yes …
Diderot Mirabeau: about the MoCA Proposal …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, Lenin ? thanks for your time!
Lenin Camus: Talk to you guys later. Thanks again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re welcome to listen to our continuing meeting, but I guess it might sound too boring for you, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye then 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: Farfletched, Sudane, Gwyneth and I have been discussing the issue to clear out any legacy obligations and flesh out the institutional framework of the arrangement
Gwyneth Llewelyn gets her agenda back on display
Diderot Mirabeau: and to summarise …
Diderot Mirabeau: the proposal is that an independent society of Neualtenburgers be formed .. from which a board will be elected to be responsible for the general oversight of the MoCA …
Diderot Mirabeau: this will be some sort of charity … and will probably be registered as a company ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: very likely so 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: which will be entering into an obligation with the city … to run the MoCA according to specified criteria for a test period of six months
Diderot Mirabeau: and the Guild will be responsible on the Neualtenburg side to oversee the financial side of things …
Diderot Mirabeau: Farfletched will be employed as curator by the board of the society …
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Diderot Mirabeau: a general meeting has been announced for Tuesday next week open to all citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: it will be at 3 PM SLT
Diderot Mirabeau: this will be the founding meeting for the society and we expect to be able to approve of the charter and appoint a board …
Diderot Mirabeau: I encourage every citizen of Neualtenburg with an interest in art to show up .. it will be at the MoCA …
Diderot Mirabeau: also we happily accept anonymous donations of L$
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions?
Diderot Mirabeau: so what we need from the RA is actually just a nod of acknowledgement to our charter in the form of the resolution
Diderot Mirabeau: and an approval of the proposed agreement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ys 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: 4-15 and 4-16 respectively
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll have to go to 7 day on these too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7-day vote again….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fear for the meeting on Tuesday. Hopefully the RA can get a vote before that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Fletch is online… he should join us… hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: ah well Gwyneth not to worry …
Diderot Mirabeau: it need not be formally approved at the founding meeting .. the society will commit to its business whether or not the agreement is in place
Diderot Mirabeau: if not we will just have to lobby for having it approved in a timely fashion
Diderot Mirabeau: or we could take our business elsewhere 😉
Diderot Mirabeau smiles smugly
Diderot Mirabeau hopes that was not construed as an ultimatum!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bewae of ultimatums 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even *beware
Diderot Mirabeau: did you IM Fletch Gwyneth?
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on the incorporation/registration and bank bills?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Claude ? do you mean that there are no questions at all regarding the MoCA? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s good to hear 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: well we have been four persons discussing it and preparing it already so I would expect most of the glitches to have been ironed out
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry. I’m frustrated withthe quorum problems we’ve been having.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙁
Diderot Mirabeau: me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, who is the 5th member anyway? Besides Kendra and (hopefully) Seldon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, FR
Claude Desmoulins: I have a problem with weekends in that it makes me ask my wife to watch two toddlers for several hours while I sit in a virtual meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t imagine what kept Kendra, she usually is around 4 PM PST at home…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, anyway…. that’s why we have the 7-day vote.
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe she thought we weren’t meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t have any MoCA questions.
Claude Desmoulins: 4-17 and 4-18 are thornier and more complex.
Claude Desmoulins: well, 4-17 is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so the 4-15 and 4-16 can go on the 7-day vote without any further issues, is that so?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, 4-17, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: BTW there’s already an optional update.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. I got that info from a friend as well 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: a patch?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: grrr
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should fix ‘texture problems lagging your client and shiny (which apparently is broken)’
Aliasi Stonebender: presuming that the bill is materially the same as the last I saw on the forum, my only substantial objection is I don’t think corporations should be able to hold *any* public office, not just the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: I agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the idea was that eventually they might hold an office on the Guild 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: what could “an office” be for example?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, imagine that the Chamber of Commerce is run by a company 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: public janitor? 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the Notary,.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the Foreign Ministry…. 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t know, having a corporation as Guildmaster doesn’t sit well with me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I’m personally not going to defend that, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: hmm this could be done by way of delegation as I see it
Claude Desmoulins: This gets back to what’s a civil service job and what’s an office.
Diderot Mirabeau: they would not need to be in the office per se
Diderot Mirabeau: but could simply bid in a tender to carry out that particular function
Aliasi Stonebender: eh, it’s still the idea. The point of corporations, historically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw which section details that a ‘corporation’ cannot sit on the RA?
Claude Desmoulins: Two things I notice.
Aliasi Stonebender: was to lessen risk to any individual person, while undertaking matters that could show a return on investment.
Aliasi Stonebender: the treating a corp as a person grew out of this.
Claude Desmoulins: III, 8 Gwyn.
Aliasi Stonebender: but I don’t think we should swallow the legal fiction entirely.
Diderot Mirabeau: Art 3 sec 8
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it’s a later development ? and thank you Diderot & Claude
Aliasi Stonebender: A corporation is *not* an actual living, breathing human being.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree
Aliasi Stonebender: And I think Neualtenburg should always be run by actual people.
Diderot Mirabeau: what we have at present are pretty embryonic structures
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot, what did you mean by III -8
Diderot Mirabeau: and we might want to gather some experience with how they will actually work before letting the reins loose on them and giving them all sorts of citizen’s rights
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, can we amend Art 3, Section 8 to simply state “cannot vote in nor stand as a candidate in any Governmental branch”?
Claude Desmoulins: Do other branches have candidates?
Diderot Mirabeau: well III-8 was put in to reverse the previous situation which was that a company did not have any other rights than those explicitly granted to them in the bill .. since some people thought it might be too restrictive otherwise
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, they are ‘inside’ candidates, in the sense that they’re elected by their peers.
Diderot Mirabeau: for the exercise of free enterprise
Diderot Mirabeau: and those rights were limited more or less to entering into obligations with other parties
Claude Desmoulins: It’s clear we don’t wantto give the company political rights. What rights do we want it to have that aren’t economic (sue and be sued, for example)?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, they need to comply with all N’burg laws….
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the duties portion right .. forgot about that part of the rationale
Gwyneth Llewelyn: things as simple as ‘respecting covenants’
Claude Desmoulins: What about Gwy’ns suggestion, with a broad definition of candidate, it will work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, this was a long discussion I had with Diderot. We have a body of laws that applies to citizens, and I don’t think we should have a *separate* body of laws for corporations as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, when one bill is passed that affects citizens…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should affect corporations as well.
Diderot Mirabeau: I have the transcript for reference .. should we need it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe great, Diderot 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: However we need corporate law to institute reporting and accounting requirements, for example.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The exception, of course, is that corporations should not have the right to vote or to be elected.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is implicit in one of the articles… let me see…
Diderot Mirabeau: art 5 sec 3 for example?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, thank you Diderot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it.
Claude Desmoulins: Does this require a certain proportion of company officers to be citizens?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Diderot Mirabeau: well …
Diderot Mirabeau: as it stands ..
Diderot Mirabeau: there are _no_ requirements on citizenship for incorporated companies …
Claude Desmoulins: and 4-2 for unlimiied livbility companies.
Diderot Mirabeau: whereas with companies that are only registered (i.e. companies with unlimited liability) all owners need to be citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, hmm, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: the rationale being …
Diderot Mirabeau: that presumably the big fish that we’d like to attract will want to incorporate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but not become citizens themselves. Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: and might not feel tempted to become citizens as well in fact would only consider it a bureaucratic nusiance .
Diderot Mirabeau: and since we keep their money in escrow .. there’s really no security concern that necessitates it
Claude Desmoulins: Why not expect them to buy microplots? Although you have a point about the escrow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Diderot, I still think that the *directors* (or however they’re called) should be citizens, because there is such a thing as *personal* responsability.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. the ones that sign documents on behalf of the company
Gwyneth Llewelyn: may be subject not only to the Commerce Court
Claude Desmoulins: The empowered persons.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also the Criminal Court
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the +empowered persons’
Diderot Mirabeau: so you mean anyone who is able to perform acts on behalf of the company in accordance with the empowerment criteria?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Diderot Mirabeau laughs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: well …
Diderot Mirabeau: I would have no beef with that it could be easily implemented
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just because they have traditionally civil and criminal responsabilities in RL jurisdictions….
Diderot Mirabeau: although we might want to know the position of key corporate actors in the field that we might like to attract
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the rest of the shareholders ? even the majority of stock! ? *could* be held by, uh, ‘foreign’ residents (ie. non-citizens)
Claude Desmoulins: The other thing I’d look at inthe 10 minutes we have left is the banning of Neualtenburg from company names.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good one to discuss!
Claude Desmoulins: I know we don’t want to imply city endorsement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the idea.
Claude Desmoulins: But what if being here is the distinguishing feature. Yes I’m thinking of the School here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Neualtenburg Anshe Chung MegaCorp” somehow sounds… wrong…. 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: well if we don’t leave it in there .. there’s nothing to keep any outsider from incorporating here and calling his company “Neualtenburg fachwerks”
Claude Desmoulins: Then Diderot, as an aside, what shall the Neualtenburg School change it’s name to, Trustee as you are? 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: right .. didn’t think of that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude ? what about “the usage of the Neualtenburg name is restricted and has to be approved by the Chamber of Commerce”?
Diderot Mirabeau: on what grounds?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good pint.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Diderot Mirabeau: the key thing is ..
Claude Desmoulins: I could live withthat, if we set criteria.
Diderot Mirabeau: we only want to endorse the use of the name …
Claude Desmoulins: Good[point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude… what is the criteria in the US?
Diderot Mirabeau: for companies that actually live here .. carry out their business here and have a substantial involvement in city life
Claude Desmoulins: None that I can tell.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, US Robotics 🙂 They use US in the name 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps we could tie it in with requirements for citizenship by all owners
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No criteria at all. Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around here, the name ‘Portugal’ is also restricted to corporations having public funding. The same applies to using city names, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might be private companies, though, but approval is restricted to ‘having public use’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Claude Desmoulins: On the other hand, Neualtenburg Body Parts makes me squirm .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that somehow we *could* delegate that issue to the Chamber of Commerce….

Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL Claude!
Diderot Mirabeau: and just put in a wording that lists the main criteria along which a name would be judged for feasibility?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is, Neualtenburg is a trademark. Not a *registered* trademark, but a trademark as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Could we ask the CoC to do guidelines and have the Guild and RA approve them?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, right now, the CoC does not exist ? Sudane has to delegate that function 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see why not .. but .. well .. _who_ are the CoC at this time?
Diderot Mirabeau: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By definition, Sudane is *everything* in the Guild that she hasn’t delegated yet, hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: oh alright let’s pass the ball to her then shall we . that’s easy seeing as she’s not here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Claude Desmoulins: She wants to do the platz first.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, actually, I agree. Let’s amend that section!
Claude Desmoulins: I need to go. Can we move 17 and 18 to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: And trhen adjourn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I have to go to sleep as well, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: to allow for the use of any name in principle but give the CoC the power of veto against unsuitable names … for which it would establish some guideliens or criteria
Diderot Mirabeau: yes let’s move on
Diderot Mirabeau: two amendments have been noted
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll talk it on the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do agree on that amendment proposal, Diderot.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we move all the constitution stuff to 7 day too?
Diderot Mirabeau: isn’t there a requirement for a reinforced quorum for those?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, right!
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, which we can get viaa seven day vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we? 🙂 hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We hope 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, technically a “constitutional amendment” is a bill… 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: that settles it then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless the RA votes otherwise…. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjournment moving the whole agenda to seven day?
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing none… so ordered.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only one having eventual legitimate objections would be Aliasi… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
The meeting closed at 17:43 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA meeting: March 11, 2006

Meeting on 2006-03-12
Those present:
Aliasi Stonebender is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Aliasi Stonebender: and now the recorder is on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor, you’re welcome to a seat… oops, he just fell asleep.
Kendra Bancroft: You just sat there so you could stare romantically at me across the table, Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: alright, we don’t have the notecard with an agenda, but I believe you all have seen the forum or email post.
Pelanor Eldrich: thx…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, wb, Pelanor.
Aliasi Stonebender: So first item up is bill 4-19, Prim Allotment
Aliasi Stonebender: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=92362
Kendra Bancroft: are we discussing first –or just voting now
Aliasi Stonebender: The gist of this seems to be to allow public institutions, such as the MoCA, to use the “city” prims.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, discuss a bit, since no one did a followup on Sudane’s post.
Seldon Metropolitan: and to let them ebb back and forth as needs dictate prim alottment
Aliasi Stonebender: now, with 1.9 and the ability to shift prims around in the estate tools, this may not be strictly necessary.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A reminder: in about 3 days, the whole system of prim allotments will change, so this suggestion by Sudane is a good starting point to regulate that!
Aliasi Stonebender: But either way, it seems to be the same intent to me.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ? I mean, there is still ‘regulation’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I’m typing slow ? too late for me 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: Since the “city” land generally uses fewer prims than it could.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, there should be regulation, and this bill fits in nicely.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it’ slate for me too, Gwyn.
Aliasi Stonebender: Indeed. And this is a bit looser than trying to do the math for prim bonus allotments like the estate tools will allow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do agree 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I have an aye on this with a caveat
Aliasi Stonebender: more a “here’s the prims, don’t go too crazy.”
Aliasi Stonebender: yes?
Kendra Bancroft: The church needs prim editing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, DEFINITELY.
Seldon Metropolitan: hasnt the renovation of the church been kicked around for a whie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Long overdue!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Seldon Metropolitan: like a while a while?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 😀
Kendra Bancroft: But we have never asked the Guild to take the job
Aliasi Stonebender: So you’ve mentioned, and I agree. That’s really a seperate matter, though one we need to takle.
Aliasi Stonebender: tackle
Seldon Metropolitan: I think formalizing the administration of the alottment of city prims is a good thing
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps someone should submit a formal bill. Perhaps you’ll make me do it.
Kendra Bancroft: I propose a rider to this bill calling for the church to be renovated
Gwyneth Llewelyn *winks* at Kendrfa 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even Kendra…. ack

Aliasi Stonebender: what specific language would you use, Kendra?
Kendra Bancroft: Edit the prims in the church by at least 25%
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, do you want us to just say “Guild, make the church use less prims” and hope it isn’t done by deleting the building? 😉
Seldon Metropolitan: which wouldnt be too rough on the build
Aliasi Stonebender: 25%, good, concrete numbers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, Aliasi, “hope”?!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Kendra Bancroft: Frankly I could edit half –but at least 25% is easily doable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a serious question… we need BladeDancer? to give permissions, right?
Aliasi Stonebender: 25% is an acceptable minimum, anything else is a bonus.
Kendra Bancroft: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is he readily available?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “No” sounds good!
Kendra Bancroft: You could delete the prims that need editing by unlinking it with selecting solitary prims and redoing sections
Kendra Bancroft: It’s what I did with the Biergarten
Kendra Bancroft: and I knocked 25% off that structure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds like magic to me, Kendra, but you’re the expert here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that sounds perfectly reasonable.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s really not a hard job
Aliasi Stonebender: Sounds good to me, and I’ll assume you know what you’re talking about. Well, actually, I’ve worked out bits that could be redone myself, so I KNOW you know, but anyway.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great to know that 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway… yes… nothing else to add on this bill?
Kendra Bancroft: not for me –if we attach a decrease prim count by 25% to the church
Kendra Bancroft: it’s a great bill
Seldon Metropolitan: Im fine with it as it stands.
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay, if there’s nothing more to say… let’s vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if the RA would need to appoint members for the Prim Management Committee, or if only the Guild needs to do that? (makes more sense)
Kendra Bancroft: Aye
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
Seldon Metropolitan: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay! 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a Guild function
Aliasi Stonebender: Guild, I’d say Gwyn. It SAYS guild-based in the bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, excellent. Just to have it on record 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: hiya claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, our fearless leader of the RA is here ? welcome, Claude!
Aliasi Stonebender: you can have your seat. 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I think in my getup tonight I should have a white cat in my lap like a Bond villain
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks.Still rezzing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol @ Kendra 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: Mr. Bigglesworth?
Kendra Bancroft: I was thinking Rosa Klebs –but okay
Claude Desmoulins: Just a asec while I skim transcript
Claude Desmoulins has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay, 4-19 is passed, with the rider…
Claude Desmoulins: which rider.
Seldon Metropolitan: that the prim count of the church be reduced by 25%
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that work on that starts ‘soon’
Claude Desmoulins: I had a question about this, actually.
Claude Desmoulins: What the current list of entities that would be able to take advantage of this prim sharing?
Kendra Bancroft: TY, Gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Kendra ? lovely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Claude, the bill states the following ones:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “the Museum, the School, and possibly if they should fall in this catagory in the future, the Church, the Biergarten and the Schloss”
Claude Desmoulins: Ok. Here’s the rub.
Kendra Bancroft: and –Altenburg –yeah that’s the ticket
Claude Desmoulins: If all the School trustees on RA recuse themselves, as they probably ought…
Claude Desmoulins: Who does that leave us, or rather , does the Guild admin all this?
Claude Desmoulins: Apologies over the agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: The Linux client has no cut and paste.
Kendra Bancroft: We would vote on which buildings –The Guild would just have oversight that prims stay within their set limits
Kendra Bancroft: I think the Guild should determine the prim alottment
Claude Desmoulins: I did not have time to type up the bills manually.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Well if it’s passed, its passed and we hope no one complains.
Kendra Bancroft: we’re only voting which buildings have this status
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t feel the RA should get into micro-managing prims
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, everyone. Please touch the recorder. There have been some concerns about chat recording and ToS.
Kendra Bancroft: That sounds “guildish” to me
Kendra Bancroft has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Seldon Metropolitan has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, lol
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: (I turned it on, so I’m guessing I shouldn’t touch it again.)
Claude Desmoulins: My concern over an appearence of conflict of interest is how does it look when an RA including 3 (2 present) school trustees votes to allow the school to prim share?
Claude Desmoulins: It doesn’t matter, Aliasi.
Kendra Bancroft: I think that’s a concern –but we don’t have a quorum to vote that bill here
Claude Desmoulins: To stop it requires a non audible chat.
Claude Desmoulins: What do you mean we don’t have a quorum?
Kendra Bancroft: But I’m simply an investor –does an investor need to recuse themself as well?
Kendra Bancroft: If everyone involved in the school recuses –we have how many RA members to vote on that?
Claude Desmoulins: For that matter, the school as an entity doesn’t exist.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Claude Desmoulins: two
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Claude Desmoulins: Yet
Claude Desmoulins: See the problem?
Kendra Bancroft: I would say –when the matter comes up then –submit to the Guild for muni status
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t see it as a BIG problem.
Claude Desmoulins: Now since the school charter is still in draft.
Claude Desmoulins: And no money has changed hands,
Aliasi Stonebender: So the school gets lumped in with the “if they should fall in this category” buildings.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m the only one on the hook tonight with this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that sounds reasonable, Aliasi.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly –when we cross that bridge –let thye Guild decide if it’s a muni project
Kendra Bancroft: we’re voting on the creation of that status and how it affects prim count
Seldon Metropolitan: yea, thats reasonable.
Claude Desmoulins: I may be the only one who needs to recuse at this point.
Aliasi Stonebender: The actual provisions of the bills – 1) and 2) – allow the Guild a lot of latitude.
Aliasi Stonebender: So even if there WAS a conflict, or the school is deemed unsuitable, it doesn’t really seem as if it matters.
Kendra Bancroft: At the moment –you don’t even have an architectural plan for the school
Claude Desmoulins: The bill as worded puts the school in the category.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s interpret that bill as Aliasi did.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s the Guildmaster’s bill.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly
Aliasi Stonebender: The institution agrees to participate in a Guild-based Prim management Committee.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s the Guildmaster’s Bill –and it’s up for the Guildmaster to determine zoming
Aliasi Stonebender: If the institution does not yet exist, it cannot be said to agree to anything. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely.
Claude Desmoulins: True. We hoep to have a school charter for the RA to examine next week. How will we handle that?
Kendra Bancroft: Of course if I were still Gildemeister –I’d zone it as a Party school
Kendra Bancroft: and have nightly keggers
Claude Desmoulins: Recusals and quorum problem as noted previously.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm we can think about it, but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is not the Senate of Rome
Kendra Bancroft: hence no vomitorium
Gwyneth Llewelyn: where you have to give up your work in the CIty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ROFL Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I just meant that there is nothing under the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that prevents people to have a role on other institutions
Aliasi Stonebender: Also, I’d say that having an interest in some project is not necessarily a conflict of interest; all citizens by nature have an interest in the affairs of the city.
Claude Desmoulins: What about….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have voting power on the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *except* for membership on Guild/SC
Kendra Bancroft: OMG — hang on it’s so hot in Brooklyn tonight –I have to turn on my AC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Aliasi.
Kendra Bancroft:

:gasp

::
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, that’s the only one prohibited under our law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay, cool, Kendra 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Article I section 8
Gwyneth Llewelyn: of the Constitution, Claude?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: Are you getting any money from the School?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Claude Desmoulins: No. I’m paying through the nose at the moment 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interesting, so lobbying if forbidden. Good point 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: then we’re not in trouble.
Claude Desmoulins: I hope to get some at some point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s put it this way…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “what might be considered a conflict of interest” needs interpretation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that the SC can do tomorrow 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: i just want us to think ahead about how we will handle the significant overlap between the school leadership and the city leadership.
Claude Desmoulins: that exists currently
Aliasi Stonebender: As an interpretational issue, that IS a matter for the SC, like Gwyn said.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think there;s a problem as long as everything is above board.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’d need the School Charter to analyse first, of course.
Kendra Bancroft: hahaha –the new RA –it’s about delegation, stupid 😉
Claude Desmoulins: We being RA or SC?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry ? SC, since I’m not RA any more, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Let me drop you the first draft with a request for an advisory opinion. There are a couple of errors (ownership percentages ) in it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, sure.
Kendra Bancroft: Gwyn you only left cos you didn’t want to be in the same branch as me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Claude Desmoulins: That shouldn’t affect the relationship with the city.
Kendra Bancroft: I swear if I join the SC –Gwyn’ll go right to the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my, Kendra.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d move to table 4-20. I agree with Diderot that we need to get the incorp/registration thing running before we set up for consumer banking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did not reveal the SDF’s secret plans to take over all institutions… so we’d need to spread ‘voting power’ among the three branches 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree.
Kendra Bancroft: I second tabling this one
Seldon Metropolitan: fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Kendra Bancroft: And of course you’re right, Gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll want to revisit it, but let’s crawl before running…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4-20? 😉
Kendra Bancroft: 4-20 already has my “aye” but discuss if you like
Claude Desmoulins: Lee Dimsums banking regulation bill.
Claude Desmoulins: What’s 4-20 then, in your numbering?
Kendra Bancroft: Isn’t that the banking one?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Kendra Bancroft: I vote “aye” –but I’m saying it should be discussed if anyone has questions
Claude Desmoulins: I’m worried about getting swamped with structure we don’t have people power to implement.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve decided to table my “Isenland” colony for the time being if that helps
Claude Desmoulins: We have three votes to table.
Claude Desmoulins: What about Birka?
Kendra Bancroft: I renamed Birka “Isenland”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’m very confused.
Kendra Bancroft: but I’m not preopared to go with it right now
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, on the banking issue, there are two things…
Kendra Bancroft: Just a name change, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Isenland was in Takalo
Kendra Bancroft: Isenland sounds more nifty
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –Isenland is in takalo
Kendra Bancroft: Birka is going to become a tourist trap
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I think that first we need the neualtenburg bank as an institution
Claude Desmoulins: What’s in Funadama?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and afterwards, have private banking.
Kendra Bancroft: Birka is in Funadama
Claude Desmoulins nods at Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: it’s not going to be a factor
Kendra Bancroft: I’d be making the colony in Takalo
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Kendra Bancroft: I like ti better there –since it borders on Anzere –where we started
Claude Desmoulins: The one thing about tabling 4-20
Claude Desmoulins: is that Pelanor and Lee are itching to start banks here.
Kendra Bancroft: I vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: Is that fair?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I point to Diderot’s suggestion for a roadmap: http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=918539&postcount=7
Claude Desmoulins: I like that, although Pelanor may not 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I’m a big fan of this proposal
Claude Desmoulins: I like it a lot in principal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well… the RA is fully empowered to do what they wish on this subject, though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I do like a lot of it myself 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I just want to make sure we get it right.
Kendra Bancroft: I just wanna build a real neat looking bank
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I guess the SC will also talk a bit about that tomorrow (hint, hint)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d certainly discuss with my peers if we should have banking without the ‘State Bank’ first…
Claude Desmoulins: Then let’s table and let the SC weigh in with some sort of advisory
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might recommend officially Diderot’s roadmap.
Claude Desmoulins: We have a state bank as of last week unless the SC vetos it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I can only talk for myself at the moment!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s just very poorly defined at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Here, your honor
Claude Desmoulins: How patient are you willing to be?
Kendra Bancroft: Shouldn’t the Guild also weigh in? The Constitution has them as the financial end of the Government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wanted to add that, Kendra…
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with it, I planned to offer mortgages long before I accept savings deposits.
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor, you do know that as a citizen, you can chime in any time here?
Claude Desmoulins: BRB crying baby.
Kendra Bancroft: I am not a crying baby!
Kendra Bancroft pouts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the RA should also officially & formally ask for the Guild to provide their feedback.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: I concur.
Pelanor Eldrich: I thought I had to be quiet and observe, it’s the RA only that could speak.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, thx.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All citizens can speak, discuss, talk…
Kendra Bancroft: No –despite the lavish furnishings we’re quite informal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just non-citizens that should be silent 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ah..
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, citizens can speak freely. I did all the time!
Aliasi Stonebender: (even if people didn’t want me to!)
Kendra Bancroft: Couldn’t shut me up when I was Gildemeister
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Citizens can also propose bills. The real difference between being a RA member is that they can *vote* bills into laws.
Claude Desmoulins: No, my 22 month old.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not a RA member and hasn’t stopped talking 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, 6 months might be ok. I still need to build the web infrastructure to handle the ATM part. My concerns are that Ginko doesn’t get favored treatment and that a starting state escrow not be to much beyond L$10k
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pelanor.
Kendra Bancroft: we have no formal agreements with Ginko –we just put them in for shits and giggles
Claude Desmoulins: The debate I saw on the forums about this was about escrow level, delay time of startup, and reserve ratio.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ginko technically just has an ATM
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: After hearing of the avatar sensing stuff Ginko has in their ATMs, and their reluctance to answer questions afterward, I’m not entirely wild about having a Ginko ATM here now anyway.
Kendra Bancroft: I agree, Aliasi
Kendra Bancroft: Ginko was mostly an Ulrika arrangement anyways
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another story entirely.
Claude Desmoulins: The Platz renovation is reall a guild thing…
Pelanor Eldrich: tough to regulate without a formal agreement with Ginko. My reserve ration will be much higher than RL, I could handle a 6 month delay for savings deposits, but I’d like to offer mortgages within 8 weeks if I jump thought all the hoops.
Pelanor Eldrich: *ratio
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m partially at fault there, either. At a time, we thought we should get as many ‘attraction points’ to the City, and ATMs for all the systems were a good start.
Kendra Bancroft: we could get rid of Ginko at any time –we have no agreement with them do we?
Aliasi Stonebender: The past is the past. I just wanted to get that on-record.
Claude Desmoulins: but maybe we shoul recommend to Sudane that she tell Ginko if they want to be on Platz….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Kendra, we can just remove the ATM…
Seldon Metropolitan: indeed
Pelanor Eldrich: I have a sample letter to Ginko, if Sudane is interested.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Claude, actually Sudane delegated that task to me, but I have completely forgotten it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: …they bid like anyone else and become citizens if they get a spot.
Pelanor Eldrich: Works for me.
Kendra Bancroft: Then just remove the ATM –I understood when we had GOM there –but Ginko was just an afterthought
Claude Desmoulins: Thus they would be subject to whatever banking rules we enact.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, and FYI ? even if they get a spot here as citizens, they won’t be a N’burg-regulated entity!!
Claude Desmoulins: Unless/Until we regulate on sim banking.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t want a non fed bank if we establish a fed bank here
Kendra Bancroft: mind you, I might go into usury myself
Claude Desmoulins: If we do that, we don’t grandfather anyone.
Claude Desmoulins: Speaking of….
Claude Desmoulins: 4-21
LostDog? Hugz Sphere – Male Edition: Using hug (type ‘hug name’ or ‘/1hug name’ to activate)
LostDog? Hugz Sphere – Male Edition: ‘partner’ is using: Seconday Hug
Kendra Bancroft: Claude Gink doesn’t pay rent here — it doesn’t have anything to do with any legacy on the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and here comes Diderot…
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi everybody — perfect timing I see)
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has obtained the assent of the “grandfathered” parties on the Platz to enter the CCD.
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s basically something that was placed informally and not removed, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, to easy everyone’s mind, I’d say, lets remove the Ginko terminal now, and we can always talk to Nicholas afterwards.
Kendra Bancroft: Hiya, Dido
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we move to 4-21
Kendra Bancroft: please –I only have 23 minutes til matt Dillon

::droool

::
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Hey, I might be a lesbian –but I’m not dead
Aliasi Stonebender: and I have a similar amount of time before I pass into unconciousness.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ginko terminal returned 😉 Now we just need a new glass window 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: yayyyy –let’s egg it
Claude Desmoulins: I think the Guild has that power.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I got a confirmation that the item was returned. Wow.
Claude Desmoulins: No vote necessary.
Diderot Mirabeau: so a recap please … will we allow unlicensed retail banking or not?
Kendra Bancroft: No unliscensed banking –though I’m going to be a bookie
Claude Desmoulins: That’s been tabled for SC and Guild input.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s the thing….
Diderot Mirabeau: okay thanks for the heads up on that … bookie sounds like an excellent occupation 😛
Kendra Bancroft: It’s brooklyn thang
Diderot Mirabeau: he
Claude Desmoulins: For example, Pelanor is intersted in doing just mortgages first.
Claude Desmoulins: Since he wouldn’t take deposits, things like reserve ratio wouldn’t apply.
Kendra Bancroft: Can I make toasters to give to people who open new accounts, Pel?
Diderot Mirabeau: sure .. why not .. the only thing I’m a bit worried about is individuals lending their money to an unlicensed bank .. but mortgages don’t cover that
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll be forwarding my proposal to the guild. I want to work within the law and wishes of the RA. I prefer pragmatic regulation to unlicensed banking. Toasters, yes, definately.
Kendra Bancroft: Then really your opening a Savings and Loan to start with?
Claude Desmoulins: In that sense our desire to move slowly in drawing up frameworks for banking doesn’t really slow Pelanor down.
Diderot Mirabeau: if we’re able to meet in a compromise to mutual satisfaction that would be most excellent ..
Claude Desmoulins: The message I want to send to potential bankers is this:
Kendra Bancroft: Why not vote it in then –and let the SC and AG sort out the devils in the details?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, mortgages are the primary revenue stream. Until I have customers successfully pay off a mortgage, I wouldn’t offer them savings. And in any case I need to web/scripting in place to accept ATM type desposit transactions, so I can handle a delay.
Pelanor Eldrich: 6 month wait on deposits is fine with me.
Claude Desmoulins: If you want to come in and start up in this environment with no regulation, you can, but….
Claude Desmoulins: when regulation comes, you’ll have to adapt to it.
Kendra Bancroft: as any citizen must already do
Pelanor Eldrich: Not a problem, happy to and I’ll keep Sudane fully informed of what I’m doing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can’t get more reasonable than that 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: sounds fair … although I’d say that we should still consider protecting individuals from being con’ed by unwholesome financial institutions should we attract such ones under our unlicensed regime
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot, can you sumamize your concerns about Lee’s bill as originally presented?
Diderot Mirabeau: oops caught me shorthanded there I’m afraid …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Diderot, I was suggesting that the RA uses your roadmap as a guideline…
Diderot Mirabeau: the main thing I was concerned about is that it was a bit narrow in scope in that it sets up very specific restrictions on one type of institution namely the private bank .. but doesn’t much say anything about the role of the N’burg bank irt to those
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, there is a ‘Neualtenburg Bank Authority’
Diderot Mirabeau: and as I see it .. the N’burg bank should become the hub in a hub/spoke arrangement of financial institutions since it will allow the city / guild a rein
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry *Comission
Diderot Mirabeau: in the development of such institutions …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Neualtenburg Banking Commission (NBC) is responsible for issuing banking licenses, enforcing banking laws and regulating banks. ”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I think that this is rather the Neualtenburg ‘State’ Bank
Diderot Mirabeau: but why have a commission if it can be dealt with under the auspices of the bank
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a commission, or just a bank>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a separate comission.
Pelanor Eldrich: sorry, SL crashed on me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Lee’s proposal asks for a ‘comission’.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pelanor!
Claude Desmoulins: The bank exists.
Pelanor Eldrich: thx
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Diderot Mirabeau: at the time it was drafted there was no clear vision of what the N’burg bank would become .. apart from what Gwyneth might have envisioned then
Claude Desmoulins: Ok we’re tablng to wait for SC and Guild.
Claude Desmoulins: Now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not too fond of having Guild, N’burg Bank, N’burg Bank COmission, all regulating the same thing…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Claude Desmoulins: 4-21
Diderot Mirabeau: well here it’s actually 5.21 AM 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s give both the SC and AB a deadline for their input
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot!
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has gotten the owners grandfathered
Claude Desmoulins: AB?
Kendra Bancroft: Artisanl Branch –The Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm until the next RA meeting, perhaps?
Claude Desmoulins: …by NL 4-2 to agree to enter the CCD.
Pelanor Eldrich: I kinda thought NB state bank=treasury handled by the guildmaster=treasurer…but hey, that’s too simple, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, Claude, all branches have three names each 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I agree with Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pelanor, actually I also saw the Treasury as being the Neualtenburg Bank
Diderot Mirabeau: I am sure that’s the way it can be handled .. although Sudane might wish to delegate the responsibility since N’burg bank director can quickly become a very heavy role
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It only worked as a ‘Treasury’ until now, because it didn’t have additional ‘powers’.
Claude Desmoulins: NL 4-15 says….
Kendra Bancroft: It’s Sudane’s decision –but doubtless she would wish to delegate it
Kendra Bancroft: much as she has delegated the new platz to me
Claude Desmoulins: the NB is overseen by the treasurer….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: …..pays the cities bills…..
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild now has a Chamber of Commerce you know –of which I’m the head
Claude Desmoulins: ….and holds escrow deposits for NRC’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww congrats, Kendra 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I suppose this would allow the treasurer to design the NB governance structures.
Kendra Bancroft: TY Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, the role of the Treasurer is now defined as a fancy title for the Head of the neualtenburg Bank. Simple 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Right –and if Sudane wants to appoint a Bank officer it’s her decision
Kendra Bancroft: not ours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well ‘overseen’ really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, that’s her choice
Claude Desmoulins: Let Sudane come up with an org chart and bring it to us if she wants/needs RA approval.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Claude
Kendra Bancroft: it does need our stamp
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Pelanor Eldrich: great…delegating it makes sense.
Claude Desmoulins: 4-21
Kendra Bancroft: It’s called getting the people involved in Government, Pel 😉
Claude Desmoulins: ungrandfathers Sudane, Dianne, Amulius
Claude Desmoulins: and puts them into the CCD.
Pelanor Eldrich: what’s CCD?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane got their assent to this.
Diderot Mirabeau: Dianne’s lot .. surely that’s not “Black” is it?
Claude Desmoulins: Central Commercial District.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Kendra Bancroft: Yes, that’s “Black”
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Seldon Metropolitan: this seems pretty straight forward
Diderot Mirabeau: okay .. it’s almost as close to the marktplatz as is my house in 2205 Talenstrasse .. only at the other end
Claude Desmoulins: We would be amending NL 4-2 to reflect this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Marktplatz does an “L”…
Kendra Bancroft: and I’m miving my steinzeug to my property next to the Rathaus
Diderot Mirabeau: aaah
Diderot Mirabeau: miving = giving or moving? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions on the text?
Kendra Bancroft: the north and south platz are what we’ll be devolping
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clear as the fountain’s water 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Diderot Mirabeau: an example in brevity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Seldon Metropolitan: voting = good 😀
Kendra Bancroft: okay, folks –It’s Matt Dillo9n time for me
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Seldon Metropolitan: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: mark me down as aye on 4/21
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing we have to do is RA archivist.
Kendra Bancroft: later folks!
Kendra Bancroft: have a good one!
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Kendra enjoy
Kendra Bancroft:

droooool

:
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi?
Pelanor Eldrich: cya
Claude Desmoulins: opposed?
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, aren’t there any left-over Constitutional amendments from previous meetings?
Aliasi Stonebender: sorry, drifting off a bit
Claude Desmoulins: The four that were on the agenda all passed.
Aliasi Stonebender: we cleared those in 7-day, I think, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: ADR, Citizenship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fine.
Diderot Mirabeau cheers wildly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, there are only 4. Sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: The one that changes the SC veto hasn’t been officially submitted yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that there were two different sets, but I know see they’re the same 4.
Claude Desmoulins: RA archivist.
Claude Desmoulins: I posted a job description to the forums.
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts?
Aliasi Stonebender: seems straightforward enough.
Seldon Metropolitan: seems good.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One question ? will that be a ‘civil service’ job, ie. paid for by the City?
Seldon Metropolitan: I thought it would, be I thought it was specifically addressed as so under the act that created those.
Pelanor Eldrich: I like it, but like the state bank, you should be able to hire whoever/whatever you want for the civil service as long as the admin salary item is in the passed budget.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Pelanor.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. The budget funds four positions.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the second question is: what happens if the RA Archivist misses a RA meeting? 😉
Seldon Metropolitan: death
Claude Desmoulins: As the RA we can create the description for this one since it’s the RA archivist.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Seldon Metropolitan: pistols at dawn
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why the recorder.
Pelanor Eldrich: I mean, get a masseuse if you want…whatever…politically not wise, but nothing stopping you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: As long as they have the transcripts and the bills/agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only 4 functions are on the budget, pelanor ? here, let me give you a copy.
Claude Desmoulins: They can do it w/o presence at the meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, that’s clear then, Claude!
Claude Desmoulins: Bills and agenda should be posted to forums ahead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How will the job be ‘selected’? Ie. candidates should apply to the LRA, and there will be a selection process?
Claude Desmoulins: Any problem with the description?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do that first.
Diderot Mirabeau: does it set a maxium number of hours to be worked per week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
Claude Desmoulins: No. It’s salaried/
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$1000/month for the job.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of approving the description?
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Seldon Metropolitan: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn *pokes* Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Aliasi 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Now two things.
Diderot Mirabeau: I was just going to ask if anyone had a sound we could play to wake up Aliasi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Diderot: Library | Sounds | Bugle “charge” 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: 1) I’ve been doing this job uncompensated for six weeks. I have no problem continuing to do it compensated 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Claude!
Claude Desmoulins: If we need a highly transparent process, we’ll at least need an interim,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fair enough, hehe
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks for the doc….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I asked if you were going to take people’s resumes, and then have an evaluation process.
Seldon Metropolitan: Im fine with claude as interim until a suitable candidate can be determined.
Claude Desmoulins: Besides, there’s a long tradition of legislatures not making themselves accountable to laws they pass 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: it would be nice if we could find some newbie to take the job .. we need more microjobs for newbies
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Awww that would be lovely, Diderot!
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to post an ad somewhere?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, and banking jobs… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and L$1000 is not a ‘microjob’ lol
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s an issue.
Seldon Metropolitan: it would be a good way to get someone more involved in the process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You could, Claude ? at the Employment/Opportunities forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think that if this person is a civil servant… they have to be citizens. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I’m happy to keep doing it if there’s not an objection. Sudane is GM and Treasurer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, the microplot’s cost could be deducted from the salary 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: yes … I agree .. but the 40L$ for a microplot could be deducted from the pay
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe .. mindshare
Seldon Metropolitan: alts!
Seldon Metropolitan: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Diderot, hehe 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn and Aliasi are the two candidates for interim webmaster and they’re each in government.
Pelanor Eldrich: Preference to citizens helps motivate citizenship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww we need now a highly formalized admittance procedure 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m no webmaster.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm the webmaster will be a function of the Chamber of Commerce
Claude Desmoulins: The other issue is that I have tended to do a lot of clean up im creating the legislation archive.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I’m no webmaster either
Seldon Metropolitan: Im gonna need to go pretty soon. I have a drunk person throwing up and Im the only responsible person sober enough to deal with it at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Claude ? the ‘separate contract’ you mentioned
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, and as I stated at the outset, the wiki is purely a private entity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh, Seldon 😀
Claude Desmoulins: The separate contract refers to going through the forums….
Claude Desmoulins: …and finding all the old laws.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, anyway, Claude, on the issue of the Webmaster, we have currently 4 people doing overall what the future website is going to be… Aliasi, myself, Flyingroc, and Sky 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: going through the forums – that’s a job for Gwyneth .. she’s got to do it anyway to populate her spanking new del.icio.us account
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I agree that it should be a separate contract
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack no time for that, Diderot >:)
Claude Desmoulins: Sky has been/will be paid for her contribution on a one time $L10K payment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ? I didn’t know that, ok ? on the ‘backlog’ n laws, I’d say, let’s take the money from the ‘Rainy Day’ savings as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: define an amount for the past work
Claude Desmoulins: Ifthere are no objections. I’ll be interim.
Seldon Metropolitan: Ive already stated my lack of objections.
Claude Desmoulins: Someone else will need to draft a hiring procedure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and allow the RA Archivist to either accept the contract as well, or we’ll get a new job description for that separately
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW ? who hires the civil servants? 😀
Seldon Metropolitan: Id be happy to take a try at drafting the hiring procedure
Diderot Mirabeau: do the 10K include support? I notice the land overview currently contains a Bernard Maginot and a Land Title error?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s an interesting question…
Claude Desmoulins: Is an RA member allowed to seek the archivist job?
Diderot Mirabeau: sure why not
Seldon Metropolitan: I dont see any conflict there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude ? technically, yes, since for the past 15 months or so, it was always a RA member doing that
Diderot Mirabeau: as long as it’s not the same person hiring them
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I had intended to remail a candidate.
Claude Desmoulins: *remain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: for the permanent position.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, who does the hiring? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: So I’ll step back.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is loving the idea of creating the Bureaucracy of Neualtenburg 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The RA less anyone who’s a candidate for the job:)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I saw too many episodes of “Yes, Minister” on BBC….
Claude Desmoulins: He/ She is our achivist.
Seldon Metropolitan: ugh like I said, I have some ideas as far as the hiring goes, and Id love to throw together the framework, but I really need to go here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… let me suggest something.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the only branch of Government that is not directly involved on the lawmaking process is the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the RA passes laws, the SC enforces them)
Pelanor Eldrich: See, this goes back to my idea of get the overall amount for civil service passed in the budget and then LRA can do whatever. If you want to do it all yourself and keep the money fine. The citizens will vote you out if NB isn’t running well.
Pelanor Eldrich: Just a thought.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It makes sense that the Guild oversees the Civil Service.
Diderot Mirabeau: even the SC archivist?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s part of the civil service, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Two things that don’t need action….
Claude Desmoulins: ..in a sec.
Pelanor Eldrich: RA runs the civil service, SC runs the judiciary, Guild runs the fianances/economics.
Diderot Mirabeau: poor Sudane’s going to be overworked with all the responsibilities we throw at her
Pelanor Eldrich: Same with employees.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer that RA hires RA archivist however it wants…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, the RA is not the ‘executive’, Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Sudane needs to delegate to some guild scutmonkeys
Claude Desmoulins: ….SC hires SC archivist however it wants,….
Claude Desmoulins: ….C of C hires webmaster how it wants….
Diderot Mirabeau envisions the rise of a professional services industry in Neualtenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww three separate civil services?! Oh my 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Treasurer is thornier.
Pelanor Eldrich: Civil service functionaries are usually hired and administered by the Gov’t in power.
Claude Desmoulins: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the RA is not the Government, Pelanor 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the tricky bit in N’burg… we have no ‘executive’ branch 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn considers the Monarchy again
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m Canadian…BTW
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: Gwyneth don’t you think that putting all the archivists under the auspices of the guild will create unnecessary complexity of interfaces / interaction between branches of government
Pelanor Eldrich: Constitutional Monarchy
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever entity supervises the civil servant hires him or her within broad guidelines set up by all three branches.
Seldon Metropolitan: I think thats probbably the better way to go claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Diderot, sure. I’m just half-joking. At this point in time, it’s perfectly possible to have each branch hire its own people.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, RA monkeys hired by RA, SC monkeys hired by SC etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, in the future, we might need to have the equivalent of a Civil Service
Seldon Metropolitan: but.. I need to go. Im more than happy to look at the hiring process, and Ill check back on the notes in a couple minutes
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t want a complex EEO code because who wants to muck with enforcing it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think we have more action items tonight.
Diderot Mirabeau: why not let Seldon draft some guidelines for the process for all three branches
Pelanor Eldrich: If you hire yourself and you suck ass, it’ll be remembered at election time.
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d better check out myself, we’ve done the stuff that needs us all to be here.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Seldon Metropolitan: Im down with that
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, I know it’s early.
Claude Desmoulins: Did you see what I posted about the SC agenda?
Seldon Metropolitan: it would give me a good excuse to get used to the nburg legal language and Ive been looking for a small manageable project
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So each branch hires its own staff, oversees/supervises them, and the Guild pays them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not yet, Claude
Seldon Metropolitan: Ill check back in a bit, night all
…
The meeting closed at 20:55 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 22, 2006

Meeting on 2006-03-23
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Recorder’s on.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch
Navy:Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.Kendra Bancroft: good thing I didn’t eat beans then Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Start please with 4-22
Claude Desmoulins: As we have an hour tops.
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi expressed willingness to do some of this volunteer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: If we want to pay someone…
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, and now that she’s here – Kendra, I was wanting to make sure using some of your structures in the build would be cool.
Claude Desmoulins: ..let’s do a second bill.

Kendra Bancroft: yes of course
Sudane Erato: perhaps a nominal fee would allow us to remain consistent withour principles… to pay everyone
Kendra Bancroft: anything I build for Neuatenburg is for Neualtenburg in toto
Aliasi Stonebender: Good, good. I might want to get a moddable stein or beer glass to give to the hippo.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$ 5 ? 🙂
Sudane Erato: hello!
Diderot Mirabeau: I gave Aliasi 10 L$ already 😉
Sudane Erato: well, perhpas $1000
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it will go towards my next upload. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: When you say a modest fee,what are you thinking?
Kendra Bancroft: mod/copy? Aliasi?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, can the budget swallow this?
Claude Desmoulins: $1k
Aliasi Stonebender: That would work, I don't think I'll have to hand over ownership to anyone.
Claude Desmoulins: lindens
Sudane Erato: well. as I said before… we don’t know..
Kendra Bancroft: Do you know which stein you want? I have like 12 different ones
Sudane Erato: but we can gamble and see
Aliasi Stonebender: basically, I want to make a hippo with stein and chicken hat, or some kind of bavarian hat.
Aliasi Stonebender: I didn’t have one in mind.
Aliasi Stonebender: Whatever you think would go good with a telehub hippo.
Claude Desmoulins: Clarify we don’t know, please.
Aliasi Stonebender: that would work.
Aliasi Stonebender: Rock on. Thanks!
Kendra Bancroft: There’s a bavarian hat
Sudane Erato: We can certainly commit to L1000… and hope that the budget was cobservative
Sudane Erato: conservative
Sudane Erato: which, I think it is
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an amendment to that effect?
Sudane Erato: you must treat budgets with some flexibility
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll vote yes on the amendment, for form’s sake.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll propose it, so you aren’t proposing to pay yourself 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra?
Kendra Bancroft: yes?
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, but with Kendra’s items, I could split it with her, we’d be in all kinds of conflict of interest then. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote, please 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How are you on the amendment? Kendra Bancroft: Oh I thought I had –aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe perhaps it was ‘swallowed’ on the chat lag.
Claude Desmoulins: If you wantto give money to Kendra, it’s your choice.
Kendra Bancroft: Money is good for me
Claude Desmoulins: Amended to pay Aliasi $L1k to coordinate the build.
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: Can we vote on 4-22?
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m good with it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Obviously.
Sudane Erato: smile
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s call it even, Aliasi –I never paid you for helping me with the Merry-go-round
Gwyneth Llewelyn: smile
Aliasi Stonebender: If it pleases you.
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra- on the bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *drums her fingers*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: smile
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Just re-reading it
Kendra Bancroft: but “aye”
Claude Desmoulins: RA procedures.
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, I’ll IM torley about it Pelanor Eldrich: uh, the avatars are transparent, all I see are hats and glasses etc.
Claude Desmoulins: The proposed change adds an official definition of quorum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Pelanor 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as said, this is one of the ‘legacies from the past’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: never codified
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we should definitely have it written down somewhere
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m fine with making it formal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d certainly encourage the RA to do that, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Hence the proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /nod
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is gestureless.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we vote now?
Diderot Mirabeau: better than heartless
Aliasi Stonebender: let’s.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: AYE
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks there wasn’t ever a vote that did NOT pass 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I doubt FR will make it. Let’s move all the PCA’s – Proposed Constitutional Amendments- to 7 day. Any objection?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… perhaps there was… I si
mply can’t remember it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The first University proposal.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I might have a quibble with some of the amendments, but I’ll tackle that in the email.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to goingto seven day?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, yes, good point, Claude.
Kendra Bancroft: Hey, Aliasi –FETCH!
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m not a dog, I’m a coyote.
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I exist to lure you into an overly complicated trap. Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: meep meep
Aliasi Stonebender: and no objections to going 7-day here.
Claude Desmoulins: OK now Diderot and SC.
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions to the nominee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau sweats profusely
Sudane Erato: i think he’s emminently qualified! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should perhaps just add that Diderot was on a shortlist with ‘possible candidates’
Kendra Bancroft: what’s a scottsman wear under his kilt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the idea was to give them a way to participate *even more* in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is what happened with Diderot, certainly 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: I can show you later 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra, a *true* scot… well 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: nahhhh –I’ll just highlight transparent 😉
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve no questions, m’self.
Kendra Bancroft: I have one question
Diderot Mirabeau: yes?
Claude Desmoulins: Please let’s make the transcript family friendly, folks 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Diderot, Th Constitution of Neualtenburg exists to (fill in the blank)
Diderot Mirabeau: define the obligations of the community to its citizens and vice versa and set out a framework of institutions to serve that purpose in my view
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: good answer
Kendra Bancroft: he’s fine by me
Claude Desmoulins: Other questions or shall we vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew I’m glad I did not go through Kendra’s questioning in my time… 😉
Sudane Erato: haha
Kendra Bancroft: I wasn’t on the RA
Kendra Bancroft: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! That’s an excellent point!
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as a no to other questions.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it seems that the Guild has to approve the SC members as well…
Diderot Mirabeau: or at least Die Gildemeister does, right?
Sudane Erato: the Guild has no mechanism for doing so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops
Kendra Bancroft: y only reservation is having his name rhyme
Sudane Erato: well., the Guild master Certianly does
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, get one mechanism for doing the approvals, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra!
Sudane Erato: *sigh*… yes 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: you want it to rhyme with anything in particular?
Diderot Mirabeau: with itself maybe?
Kendra Bancroft: mojo
Diderot Mirabeau: Diderot Motorboat? Pelanor Eldrich: it does rhyme with itself.
Pelanor Eldrich: silent t in french
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, as to the vote?
Pelanor Eldrich: diderow mirabow
Claude Desmoulins: Peut-on voter?
Pelanor Eldrich: Je ne peux pas.
Claude Desmoulins: C’etait en general.
Kendra Bancroft: yeah yeah yeah Frer’Jaques
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Sudane Erato: lol
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the nomination.
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: AYE
Kendra Bancroft: I mean Oui!
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot, you can now get some sleep 🙂
Sudane Erato: bravo!!
Claude Desmoulins: Discussions.
Kendra Bancroft: my butt is sticking to this seat
Diderot Mirabeau breathes a sigh of relief
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Election system. Sudane’s putting together a working group to make sure the system gets built.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, back ? and CONGRATULATIONS, Diderot!
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. Congrats.
Diderot Mirabeau: 🙂 thank you everyonye I hope to do my best in this capacity
Kendra Bancroft: All hail the great Shamalamadingdong!
Claude Desmoulins: Right now it’s potentially Me, Aliasi, Gwyn, Satch and FR.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone else we should ask?
Kendra Bancroft: All hail the great Shamalamadingdong!
Pelanor Eldrich: LOL
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry to push but we have 25 minutes.
Sudane Erato: Satch is quite enthusiastic
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi,
Sudane Erato: and has even offered to coordinate
Claude Desmoulins: Did you ever figure out the MySQL server on your web host?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’d immediately vote for Satchmo, lol
Sudane Erato: but… he’s quite busy
Aliasi Stonebender: No, I haven’t had the time.
Sudane Erato: like everyone
Kendra Bancroft: Anything Sarch wants to do has my supoort
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sudane 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: I can do the backend. I’m just clueless on XML-RPC.
Sudane Erato: I think Ulrika used email?
Kendra Bancroft: Just let Satch off the leash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I’ll give you some hints on that Claude, it’s way easy.
Kendra Bancroft: I trust him inplicitly
Claude Desmoulins: Just drop an email if you would.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll contact Satch and see what his thought are.
Sudane Erato: great
Sudane Erato: and I’ll ask some others here…
Sudane Erato: suspicions we may have a few other coders
Claude Desmoulins: How can we publicize the sim design contest?
Kendra Bancroft: Don’t look at me –I’m horrible at it
Kendra Bancroft: Forums and an event
Sudane Erato: Keltrien has a model built Claude Desmoulins: Kelt is the only one I’m aware of who’s doing a proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m not doing one –there’s enough of me in this City
Kendra Bancroft: time for another vision
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’d put something together but for the conflict of interest.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a Secret Proposal?.
Sudane Erato: oh yes?
Aliasi Stonebender: and I don’t have strong enough feelings on the matter to make a proposal. I want us to expand, I don’t much care how.
Claude Desmoulins: Good to know. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s secret, Sudane, so I can’t tell you what it is!
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the SIC undoutedly Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shh Diderot, or I’ll reveal more 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s best if I stay out of the running
Diderot Mirabeau holds his ears in anticipation of what is to come
Claude Desmoulins: Is the whole RA excluded on principle, or just the members of the screening committee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the RA could decide that 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Also. I’ll do a forum post. Who wants to host an event.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just staying out for the sake of other people getting a chance
Sudane Erato: i see no reason to exclude anyone, at this point
Kendra Bancroft: Though I’d love to be a judge
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d love to have you as judge, Kendra!
Sudane Erato: me too!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the ‘event’, Claude, you know I’m always happy to do some 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra, I’ll have one tomorrow at Altenburg again 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The Act doesn’t specifically exclude anyone. Absent specific language, I would assume any citizen could submit.
Kendra Bancroft: great 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It must be open to all
Claude Desmoulins: What time in case one wants to show.
Claude Desmoulins: MAybe some will become citizens to do a proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: I think that should be an option
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to an ‘announcement event’… hmm… what do you think of tying it up with the MoCA somehow… architecture is also art…
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and have it promoted through the FFRC (these guys do not sleep)
Kendra Bancroft: excellent idea!
Kendra Bancroft: We could even have a show of submissions there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Claude Desmoulins: The law says one must be a citizen to submit.
Diderot Mirabeau: what was the deadline for submissions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May 1st, Diderot.
Diderot Mirabeau: okay it should be possible to fit into the exhibition plan then
Claude Desmoulins: There is also a mandated 15 day public comment period before Sudane names the screening committee.
Claude Desmoulins: So we need MoCA May 2-16.
Diderot Mirabeau duly takes note
Claude Desmoulins: Marketing….
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: We have a chicken and egg problem
Claude Desmoulins: (how apropos)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: and we also have a budget
Claude Desmoulins: How do we get enough people to do marketing without doing marketing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, ROFL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delegate 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: appoint roles
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And establish what ‘enough people’ really means.
Claude Desmoulins: Of course poor Sudane is in charge of this delegation (with Kendra’s help I imagine)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, the Head of the CoC 🙂
Sudane Erato: well… yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (CoC is such an appropriate abbreviation, hehe)
Sudane Erato: but as with the election development..
Kendra Bancroft: That’s me
Sudane Erato: best to pull together a working group
Claude Desmoulins: We barely can get quorums together for anything. The same seven or eight people seem to do it all.
Claude Desmoulins: If we aren’t careful, people will burn out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Claude 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. That’s also true.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree
Sudane Erato: yes… they will…
Diderot Mirabeau: also we risk creating conflicts of interest
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: and then others come..
Sudane Erato: perhaps we need more communication amongst ourselves…
Sudane Erato: there are almost 30
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s let Kendra and Sudane get a working group together.
Diderot Mirabeau: a dedicated group for citizens?
Kendra Bancroft: we should be delegating more outside of the governmental branches
Sudane Erato: yes…

Claude Desmoulins: I’m very hesitant to email everyone. Although we have the capability.
Kendra Bancroft: Perhaps Guild member involvement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t dislike the concept
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just fear excess of spam.
Claude Desmoulins: Group IM’s only hit if you’re in world.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: spam in the sense of too many “side communications”
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: we’ll just regulate it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, we could
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll lose the transparency that forums provide!
Diderot Mirabeau: my forum posts would never be suitable for IM
Sudane Erato: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s poll on the forums/in email with how and how frequently citizens are willingto be contacted.
Diderot Mirabeau: it would be more of an invitation medium
Aliasi Stonebender: I think forums and an occasional email work best.
Kendra Bancroft: My forum posts are suitable for communist pamphletering
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra ? that’s not even true 🙂
Sudane Erato: or for Saturday Night Live 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: this meeting I HAVE to see
Claude Desmoulins: Who should send out the email asking for communication preferences?
Diderot Mirabeau: are all the emails available?
Diderot Mirabeau: the addresses I mean
Sudane Erato: just about, yes
Claude Desmoulins: I think so.
Diderot Mirabeau: ok
Sudane Erato: I think I have 2 missing
Diderot Mirabeau doesn’t remember submitting his email address oficially
Kendra Bancroft: I prolly shouldn’t say this –but uhm –Ulrika told me to say hello
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I saw her forum post a few weeks ago. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and EVERYONE must see V for Vendetta
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be passing out masks this weekend
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m going to see it tomorrow.
Aliasi Stonebender: With my mom, no less.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyeay, who should send the email?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hah. Complex decision 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, whomever has the addresses and wants to, I’d guess.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s something completely without precedent, lol
Sudane Erato: ahhhh
Sudane Erato: I guess thats me…
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane. I’ll draft something and send it around to RA SC and you…
Diderot Mirabeau: I already IM’ed every citizen when the MoCA society held its founding meeting
Claude Desmoulins: If you’ll send it out.
Sudane Erato: I can certainly send them out, if someone can write it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need a new civil servant: SpamMaster!
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll do a draft.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Sudane Erato: good
Claude Desmoulins: Two quick things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Banking?
Claude Desmoulins: SC supports Diderot’s banking roadmap.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: The Hamlet of Altenburg strongly supprts Didot’s proposal
Claude Desmoulins: Next step on that is to get the NB up and running with someone actually running the thing.
Kendra Bancroft: as does the CoC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Kendra 😉
Claude Desmoulins: It is once again the treasurer’s appointment to make.
Claude Desmoulins: :0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: seems there is quite a workload on Die Gilde at the moment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As if the Guild didn’t have enoug to do already *winks*
Sudane Erato: the treasurer appoints the NB officer?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: I believe.
Sudane Erato: ahhh….
Sudane Erato: I need help with this then…
Sudane Erato: we need nominations, or suggestions
Claude Desmoulins: Does Cyberneticia know any banking/finance types 🙂
Sudane Erato: I think not…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nominations is a good idea, hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: Paolo Portocarreo? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: It will probably require an alt, as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s all forward suggestions to Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Kendra Bancroft: Paolo’s cool –and since I’ve already invited Barnes to perform at my new Drag Cabaret…
Sudane Erato: ok…
Claude Desmoulins: Last item.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A *drag* cabaret?!
Sudane Erato: and I’ll re-read the doc
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be having Drag shows every Saturday night
Kendra Bancroft: muawahahahahahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, LOL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: The Notary Act specifies that the city will pay for notarizing the deeds of current citizens…
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: ….Whet’s the cutoff date, and how do we get that done?
Claude Desmoulins: *What
Sudane Erato: I’m doing it…
Kendra Bancroft: Now that my dental work is getting less invasive, I’m feeling more myself
Pelanor Eldrich: When’s the platz auction?
Sudane Erato: we have had to re-formulate the deeds somewhat
Kendra Bancroft: Shall I build first? Or wait till after the auctions?
Sudane Erato: and now I’m just rying to get a system in place for contacting everyone…
Kendra Bancroft: I wanna re-do what I’ve done anyways
Claude Desmoulins: Do you have a target date for the notarizations to be completed?
Sudane Erato: no 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the date after which citizens must pay for their own deed notarization?
Sudane Erato: but its along side the Platz parcels on my agenda
Sudane Erato: once we have all existing people done..
Sudane Erato: everyone new must pay
Sudane Erato: we really do need some attention, tho… Claude Desmoulins: But for example, is the city paying for Lucia?
Sudane Erato: to the modular legal doc’s issue Claude Desmoulins: Three minutes.
Sudane Erato: the city will pay for everyone who is deeded before the notary system is functional
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Sudane Erato: the capacity of the machine is one email
Sudane Erato: 4096 characters Sudane Erato: thats a very short legal doc
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll let you take care of figuring out who must pay.
Sudane Erato: yes… np with that Claude Desmoulins: Anything else?
Sudane Erato: its the docs that are a problem
Pelanor Eldrich: SC?
Kendra Bancroft: Couldn’t the e-mail doc have hyper links to more documentation on the web page?
Sudane Erato: yes… thats what we’ll do
Diderot Mirabeau: I’ve been in touch with Sudane to try and work out the issues on that .. regrettably it’s been on my backlog for a while …
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Good idea.
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes, me too
Diderot Mirabeau: looking at it though I must say it doesn’t need to be a problem since we can isolate many of the clauses in an external document that will be updated as need be
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjournment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly
Sudane Erato: i think there are conceptiual issues with that
Diderot Mirabeau: and whether people read it or not will be their problem since we will enable the necessary legislation to put the onus on them to read it
Kendra Bancroft: MY only objection is nobody told me how rad my bathing suit is
Sudane Erato: the deed is approved as it exists at that moment
Kendra Bancroft: but I’ll let it slide
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks for tolerating the frenetic pace. Look at those constitutional things, please, and ….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s still unrezzed to me, Kendra 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: …we are adjouned.
Claude Desmoulins: Scandalous 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yay
Diderot Mirabeau: sorry Kendra I’m sitting with my Ctrl+H up and didn’t see it until now .. it’s utterly spiffy
Pelanor Eldrich: I can see right through it, Coc tease!
The meeting closed at 17:45 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 29, 2006

Meeting on 2006-03-30
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair. Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the recorder.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: First, city building redundancy.
Sudane Erato: doing so records your assent to be recorded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we’d really need to ask Eloise to give us some feedback if we have touched the recorder or not)
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: yes… perhaps
Sudane Erato: i’ll mention it to her
Claude Desmoulins: This is to provide fallback if a city official goes nuts and deletes the Rathaus or Kirche for example.
Sudane Erato: you are recorded regardless…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: Claude, yes
Sudane Erato: this is a great idea
Sudane Erato: someplace copies should be stored
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Inventory works fine 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: it’s Pelanor’s actually if I remember correctly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: great!
Diderot Mirabeau: or at least he pointed out how vulnerable we were to such things happening in a forum contribution
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need a list- Rathaus, Kirche, Schloss, Biergarten. What else?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fachwerks?
Sudane Erato: MoCA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Schloss Neualtenburg? Sudane Erato: yes… if its finished 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: what about the Schloss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh sorry
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d be amiable to backups of ALL major landmarks.
Diderot Mirabeau: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: also
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude has listed that already 😉
Sudane Erato: even the city walls!
Diderot Mirabeau: I know 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Unless someone does a new Fachwerk, we’ll not get a full perm one 🙂
Sudane Erato: they must be recorded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Good point, Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: A friend of mine has a rez-foo-style gadget we can use to archive the larger builds, too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think that Dianne was working on some under the Marktplatz…?
Claude Desmoulins: Who actually owns the Schloss building?
Sudane Erato: well.. eventually all of Ulrika’s no-mod ones will be replaced
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Sudane Erato: yes, she is…
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve got one of the rare mod ones.
Sudane Erato: yes… me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Schloss is currently owned by Kendra.
Sudane Erato: but its not copyable Claude Desmoulins: It’s still no copy, of course.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we get copies of what we can, take our chances with the no copy stuff, and rebuild if we have to when/if disaster strikes?
Aliasi Stonebender: well, technically speaking, if it’s mod, you can MAKE it copy with a little work… *shiftyeyes*… but I’d prefer that we stay away from such gross violations of copyright law. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Aliasi Claude Desmoulins: I concur
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I forgot that they were supposed to be non-copy 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need permissions to copy the landmarks…
Sudane Erato: i think they will all have to be replaced eventually
Sudane Erato: people need to mod their homes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude… was it you or Kendra that mentioned being in touch with BladeDancer? Pendragon about the Church?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. did he give explicit permission?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know that Kendra got permission from urusula to tweak the Biergarten
Sudane Erato: i spoke to him at one point about joining NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m not sure about ‘copying’ it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: I thought Kendra contacted him. We’ll have to ask her.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: ok.. great
Sudane Erato: in the forum, he was offended about us reducing the prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘Kendra buildings’ are easy, no big issues there… we just need to make sure both BladeDancer? & Urusula are comfortable with the idea.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need to amend the bill woth a “when possible” phrase?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand him totally, lol ? but that’s off the record 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: “when possible” is good
Claude Desmoulins: and possiblly a statement of intent to replace existing no copy city buildings eventually.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s fine with me, Claude, if the RA agrees on the slight amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, that’s a separate bill!
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with me.
Sudane Erato: yes, those are private homes…
Sudane Erato: not really city property
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since it means ‘work’ and thus needs a budget allocatyion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *allocation
Sudane Erato: also true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Voting time? 😀
Claude Desmoulins: I meant Kirche, Schloss, the “city” buildings that are no mod/copy. But I agree we can do that later.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah sorry Claude ? misunderstood you on that!
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the “when possible” amendment…..
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion on the bill?
Aliasi Stonebender: not from me.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-23…..
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec….
Sudane Erato: my goodness… a bill passed and we’re not even 15 mins into the mtg!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww Sudane!!!
Aliasi Stonebender: shock and awe, isn’t it
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau thinks it’s because he is so quiet
Sudane Erato: ohhh 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Still stuck on constitution. Aliasi was the only participant in the seven day discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks, Aliasi.
Flyingroc Chung: oops sorry bout that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and thanks!)
Claude Desmoulins: We have to wait for Kendra.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I agreed with everything except the SC voting amendment, that I just wanted to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: The chair would entertain a motion to accept the School charter.
Claude Desmoulins: This would, BTW allow the school, formally to share prims per the prim allotment act.
Sudane Erato: graet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops I think I’m getting chat lag here… :O
Aliasi Stonebender: or we’re just quiet.
Claude Desmoulins thinks to himself that Aliasi is the only RA member here not on the School Board of Trustees 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: sheehs.
Sudane Erato: raeding 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I make the motion to blah blah blah yackety smackety.
Aliasi Stonebender: HAPPY?
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: *crickets*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Loading…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s what I have in the Charter notecard 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: it was designed deliberately like that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Liar, Diderot 😉
Sudane Erato: :)… looks great to me
Diderot Mirabeau knows how to embed active scripts in notecards 😛 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although that’s a cool April Fool’s prank 😉
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor….
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye.
Claude Desmoulins: aye.
Sudane Erato: 2!
Flyingroc Chung: yay
Sudane Erato: in 20 mins!
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can discuss stuff.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: I have a comment about the consti amendment…
Claude Desmoulins: ….while we wait for the illustrious Ms. Bancroft.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Flyingroc Chung: I, 2
Flyingroc Chung: imagine we have 100 citizens Flyingroc Chung: 11 or 9 memebers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Flyingroc Chung: of the RA?
Claude Desmoulins: 9
Claude Desmoulins: Goes to 11 at 101.
Flyingroc Chung: ok, that is not clear
Claude Desmoulins: How do we fix it?
Flyingroc Chung: cause there are two whole odd numbers closest to 10
Claude Desmoulins: Good point.
Flyingroc Chung: hm
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps you should specifying rounding down or up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … odd smallest whole number nearest to 10% …
Aliasi Stonebender: yay math
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rounding down
Sudane Erato: folks, I’m going to ask if you” ll excuse me…
Sudane Erato: constitutional issues are not my strong point 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How’s CoC coming?
Sudane Erato: me?
Sudane Erato: its not yet…
Claude Desmoulins: Fair enough,
Sudane Erato: anyway…. good luck all…
Sudane Erato: I’ll read the transcript
Claude Desmoulins: FR, Can we just add rounded down to clarify I,2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need luck??
Flyingroc Chung: The other thing is, 10% might be too large, when we get bigger. 1000 citizens mean 100 members of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: the same Sudane … btw I’d like to buy that P220 or something
Sudane Erato: and I will be around if ther are any questions for me
Diderot Mirabeau: but I’ll send you an IM or an email with the details
Sudane Erato: ahhh… I’ll do a new deefd Sudane Erato: ok
Claude Desmoulins: I was inclined to think that one could cross that bridge when one gets to it.
Aliasi Stonebender: if we have 1000 citizens… yeah.
Aliasi Stonebender: right now, I’d be happy to get to the point where we could have a *100*.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second Aliasi
Diderot Mirabeau: well it would depend really on whether we have decided on a referendum to be a mandatory part of any future constitutional amendments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1000 citizens, hmm… 30 or so sims… hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll have a completely different structure by then 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think we have, we just haven’t written it up yet.
Aliasi Stonebender: We intend to pass some kind of amendment making further amendments more difficult, soI recall.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Diderot Mirabeau: if in the future a referendum with a qualified majority of yes-voters is a necessity for altering it … then it might be very difficult to get in a situation where we have 1000 citizens with varying degrees of attachment to the political process
Aliasi Stonebender: kind of using this RA period as a “constitutional convention”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: and therefore we should be thinking for the future already now
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees on forward planning
Diderot Mirabeau: but I’m not clear on whether the RA has actually decided on a referendum being a requirement for the ratification of any future constituational amendments .. it seems to me the discussion ended inconclusively
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone have a specific proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m quite sure that N’burg’s structure for 30 sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: will be different Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps set a maximum as well as a minimum.
Flyingroc Chung: ok, I cant think of any clear wording for the amendment… I end up with a math formula, and even that seems to need a conditional split between odd and even number of citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. very likely something where you get RA members from ‘voting circles’ (sims) sending representatives at a ‘central RA’ but having ‘local government’ as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, let’s stick to what we’ve got
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it scales well to 100 or so citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: aye Gwyneth .. a federal superstructure so to speak .. but that could be implemented on top of the existing constitution
Claude Desmoulins: FR can you show us the formula?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Diderot, and I hope that this ‘evolves naturally’ from the current constitution
Diderot Mirabeau: I tend to concur with Claude’s suggestion that we have a lower as well as an upper limit
Claude Desmoulins: Just what we need , math in the constitution 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Claude!
Aliasi Stonebender: Hey, it’s in several constitutions.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is reminded of the very complex analysis that Ulrika used to do for the voting and for the bonds…
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the maximum manageable size for an inworld meeting….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 40 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: less than the thinkers attendance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right
Claude Desmoulins: ….assuming that this body would actually use parliamentary procedure ?
Diderot Mirabeau: well it depends on whether the factions would appoint spokespersons on various issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, you can take as a rule of thumb that 40 is the ‘ideal maximum’ you can put in a sim, Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, we can dial the max avs in a sim higher, but I wouldn’t go higher than 40 unless the sim was DESIGNED for it.
Flyingroc Chung: hm… ok, 100 citizens = 49 members of RA, and 101 citizens = 51 members?
Aliasi Stonebender: i.e., few miscellaneous scripts or prims.
Claude Desmoulins: That would scale to a population of 400.
Claude Desmoulins: Right. Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Estate tools go up to 100
Aliasi Stonebender: Why would it be like that, FR? Claude Desmoulins: Before the percentage changed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t understand FR’s maths…
Aliasi Stonebender: ten percent of 101 is 10.1, that would be 9 members.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: h
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Claude Desmoulins: 11 actually
Aliasi Stonebender: Noi. Aliasi Stonebender: if we round DOWN.
Aliasi Stonebender: it would be 9.
Flyingroc Chung: I think that’s what calude meand… if # of citizens is even then floor(#of citizens * 0.1); if # citizens is odd then ceiling(#citizens * 0.1)
Claude Desmoulins: Oh.
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s a little complex for my taste, just rounding down to the nearest odd number works for me. it’s simple.
Claude Desmoulins: That means RA stays at 5 to 61 citizens. Is that good?
Flyingroc Chung: ok, in that case, we reach 11 members of Ra when we get to 110 citizens
Claude Desmoulins: I was meaning that an RA maximum of 40, would allow us to keep a 10/1 citizen/RA members ratio up to 400 citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn 's brain explodes.
Aliasi Stonebender: heh.
Claude Desmoulins: I like rounded down and maximum of 40.
Diderot Mirabeau: a pity .. it looked so pretty
Aliasi Stonebender: works for me.
Aliasi Stonebender: wouldn't be an RA meeting if we didn't discuss at least ONE intensely boring topic to death. 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Diderot, you're flattering. Everyone knows that avatars *don't* have brains, our skulls are completely empty except for the pretty eyes!
Flyingroc Chung: The number of seats in the RA is equal to 10% of the population rounded down to the nearest odd number, with a minimum of five and a maximum of 40 seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau considers the feasibility of a prim brain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t like the ‘maximum of 40 seats’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but well
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Claude Desmoulins: Why not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a ‘technicality’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I expect that when we grow to 400 citizens at the current rate
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see why not … as you said yourself .. a federation of 30 sims will need higher abstractions of governance …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even LL will have managed to finish the new renderer 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we can adjourn that discussion to 2019 anyway... 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: but perhaps we should codify in the constitution some provision for the RA to delegate parts of its decisionmaking to a supra-governmental body such as a future federal superstructure
Claude Desmoulins: I would imagine something like this. At such point as we grow to multiple sims, we’ll move from direct RA election to each sim having a certain number of seats based on population.
Aliasi Stonebender: I think perhaps we'll be lucky to last another year. 😛
Flyingroc Chung: hm, claude that formulation will get us 7 members when we reach 70, not 61 tho
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, don't be so gloomy, Aliasi! The fun hasn't even started 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: which is fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: or do you want to say 10% rounded down to odd number and then add 2.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Claude Desmoulins: Takes us to 7 at 50.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is getting a headache
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Flyingroc Chung: I think the rounded down formulation is good enough
Diderot Mirabeau: the exact number shouldn’t be that important .. the main thing as I see it is to maintain a somewhat proportional relationship between size of population and size of RA .. up to a manageable point
Claude Desmoulins: I'm OK either way.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The number of seats at RA is a random number, influenced by the amount of fog in N’burg at the time as reported by the weather station of Cid Jacobs, and loosely connected to the number of citizens, as the RA might see fit.”
Diderot Mirabeau: throw in the rocks, scissors and stones with that and I’m good to go
Flyingroc Chung: brb, getting some dinner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll leave it at FR’s suggestion.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, do you want to discuss the SC amendment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: our fearless leader is away
Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome back 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Well
Aliasi Stonebender: I said what I wanted to say in the email, did you all get it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but then again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just a ghost here 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Chatting w/ Seldon out of world.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, the gist is
Aliasi Stonebender: the intent of this amendment is to make the SC work like the guild… you have the chairs, and then you have them vote for the dean.
Aliasi Stonebender: and I was wondering if that kind of symmetry is entirely necessary.
Claude Desmoulins: Seldon is convalescing, btw.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, again? Poor Seldon!
Claude Desmoulins: Even though I wrote it, I see Aliasi’s point.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC maybe shouldn’t be a mirror of the guild in terms of governance structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s really your call, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either possibility is perfectly reasonable.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, my reasoning was like this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. in pure terms of constitutional reasoning…
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll type it out here since Gwyn didn’t see the email.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Aliasi!
Aliasi Stonebender: The RA is voted on by the citizens at large, since it is supposed to be the “voice of the people”, as it were.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: The Guildmaster is voted on by the masters, since a master has demonstrated knowledge and ability in the matters the Guild handles.
Aliasi Stonebender: However, in the SC, members have already faced a sort of qualifying test, through nomination and confirmation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, in the sense that somehow they ‘become’ masters for pure merit (at least in the spirit of the Constitution)
Aliasi Stonebender: and thus, I don’t see a reason to further boil it down to just chairs.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: I’d almost rather leave it as it is, so the whole SC elects the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm good point 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, there’s another reason, too.
Flyingroc Chung: In practice however, we seem to be using the professor position in the same way as the guild looks at journeymen
Aliasi Stonebender: As it is, the SC is easily accused of “cronyism”
Aliasi Stonebender: since it is self-selected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘cronyism’?!
Aliasi Stonebender: only letting on friends and the “trustworthy”, Gwyn.
Claude Desmoulins: No, FR. Professors in the SC still have to go past the Gilde and RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok
Aliasi Stonebender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, I was googling for that as well 🙂 Learning something every day!
Flyingroc Chung: that is professors are seen as sort of junior jurists, whose judicial mettle is still being evaluated by the chairs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Claude is right, FR
Aliasi Stonebender: So, if you then have chairs only voting on the Dean, you run into a real possibility of a static oligarcy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *all* SC members are ‘evaluated’ through a vote of confidence by Guild + RA, as well as nominated and selected by the SC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: Granted, it's helped by the "evaluation", as well as the SC holds the smallest amount of direct power.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the same happens on the Guild, Aliasi,with a difference: on the Guild, the number of Masters are not fixed; on the SC, they are 9 maximum...
Aliasi Stonebender: But it’s as much a perception thing as real effect.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Gwyn, but ANYONE can join the Guild.
Aliasi Stonebender: the SC has a "you must be THIS elite to join" sign on it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your argument, Aliasi, I find it flawless, actually.
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn, now *I'm* shocked. 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: you must be getting tired 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I tend to be with Aliasi on this one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very 🙂
Claude Desmoulins wonders where Kendra is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I think I’m going to leave you earlier than usual…
Flyingroc Chung: well, if it aint broke...
Claude Desmoulins: Any other comments on the constitutional proposals, Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For me, all of these were pretty clear
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and hi, Pelanor)
Claude Desmoulins: Greetings.
Pelanor Eldrich: hi
Diderot Mirabeau: hello
Claude Desmoulins: A follow up on the election system.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn ,did you send me that email on XML-RPC?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww I don't think I did, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m also at fault with Sudane, she wanted to get an auctioning system
Claude Desmoulins: Satch was supposed to do a spec yesterday, but he hasn't sent it to me yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Claude Desmoulins: I've now got access to some hosting space with php/mysql so I can start sandboxing this thing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I saw Satchmo yesterday, but completely forgot to talk to him about that. I guess the past two days were a bit tricky for nus, due to the Radio Open Source event…
Claude Desmoulins: I figured.
Aliasi Stonebender: Oh, that reminds me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I remember you mentioning that, Claude 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: dunno if you saw the forums, but Zero Linden posted a thing about SL eventualyl getting outbound http (instead of mucking with XML-RPC)…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes yes yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: which would be wonderful for us in all kinds of ways.
Claude Desmoulins: It will happen the same week as Havok 6. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve read that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL Claude!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, HTML-in-world (probably NOT on a prim) is perhaps a month or two away.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I’m not holding my breath, but Havok 2/3 is somethign only real gearheads will get immedate use out of… whereas outbound comms, I know of a LOT of projects awaiting such a thing
Claude Desmoulins: Did I hear that Vivox will roll out in a couple of weeks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, and here is a bit of gossip ? we'll have flexible prims as a 'major feature' very soon (yes, I know, that only interests furries and people wearing prim hair 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is Vivox, Claude?
Diderot Mirabeau: won’t that be terribly draining on system resources?
Claude Desmoulins: The SL voice chat thing that was demoed at the GDC.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I didn’t saw that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather, I didn’t read about it
Claude Desmoulins: It’s mentioned in Satch’s blog at ESC.
Aliasi Stonebender: it interests ME... flags!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: flags??
Claude Desmoulins: Flexible prims.
Aliasi Stonebender: flexible prims, why couldn't you make a flag with it?
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra was going to do faction banners.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah of course, yes 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that should work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, better primmed clothes
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, and I’d love ot have a flowing Nburg flag…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which also means: we won’t get new meshes for capes, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway
Aliasi Stonebender: oooh, yes, capes… wow, this is looking to be HUD all over again. Okay, end digression.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll *try* to get something about xml-rpc to you Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: beyond what's on my blog anyway
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not even sure this web host supports it. What about yours, Aliasi?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if it supports php
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a way to parse incoming email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that should be enough
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t you have to install xml-rpc separately?
Aliasi Stonebender: I think mine might, but like I said, no real clue, been too busy to look into it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm current versions of PHp have xml-rpc as a ‘module’ or so
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m studiously slacking off on finishing the Anzere infohub as it is, though I got a good bit done.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I have it on a separate ‘library’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, great, Aliasi! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s wait for Satch to finish the spec.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What this means, Claude, is that separate library is just a very simple PHP script which should work on *any* web server that supports PHP
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The tricky bit might be the email parser, depending on what your host allows.
Claude Desmoulins: Ah. so you do xml-rpc as an include or something like that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But if we get 'outbound HTTP' soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the email bit can be ignored 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question, of course, is ‘how soon is soon?’ 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t that always the question.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: worse case scenario, I can do the parsing for you, and call something from your web server instead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *worst Flyingroc Chung: my webhost can do xmlrpc and email parsing
Diderot Mirabeau: folks I'll have to leave you .. I think you'll be perfetly able to carry on the technical conversation without my contributions ... enjoy yourselves & thanks for a productive meeting- I hope we'll be able to hold more CET-friednly meetings in the future
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We'll wait another 15 for KB. Then move the constitution back to 7 day if she doesn't show.
Flyingroc Chung: cya diderot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll leave you as well. I usually am up later than this, but I can't keep myself awake for longer
Diderot Mirabeau: bye
Claude Desmoulins: Bye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We definitely need a world agreement on the same day we change to ‘summer time’ 😀
Flyingroc Chung: bye gwyb
Flyingroc Chung: gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: okay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye all 🙂
Claude Desmoulins ponders the deafening silence.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, can’t do much with 3 people.
Aliasi Stonebender: this will be fun when the RA expands, eh?
Flyingroc Chung: sry, munching on a cheese sandwich
Claude Desmoulins: Not on the constitution anyway.
Claude Desmoulins: NP.
Aliasi Stonebender: might have to hold multiple meetings, for each time zone.
Pelanor Eldrich: nod
Claude Desmoulins: Or some sort of running thing asynchronously on a closed forum.
Flyingroc Chung: we need some sort of async in-world communication
Pelanor Eldrich: did you guys talk about city redundency and Coc yet?
Flyingroc Chung: Coc?
Claude Desmoulins: CoC is still waiting to happen.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Claude Desmoulins: City redundancy pased with the addition of when possible.
Claude Desmoulins: *passed Pelanor Eldrich: Chamber of Commerce...
Pelanor Eldrich: Is the NB bank up yet? Any word on the Platz auction?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has redone the parcels, but no auction mechanism yet.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can the bank take a security escrow from me?
Claude Desmoulins: HAve you drawn up incorporation papers yet?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, not yet. I’ll get right on it, and send it to Sudane.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll also give him the full biz plan for referecne.
Claude Desmoulins: Do that first, then ask Sudane about whom you give the escrow deposit to.
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think Kendra will make it,
Claude Desmoulins: If we could pass the I,4 amendment, we could spread out the RA meeting more.
Claude Desmoulins: If you haven’t, please look at the proposals.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, if people actually voted during the 7-day discussion LIKE THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO…
Flyingroc Chung: ack sorry
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, Seldon has an excuse, at least... 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Is there any objection to adjournment?
Flyingroc Chung: none here
Aliasi Stonebender: none at all.
Claude Desmoulins: We are therefore adjourned.
The meeting closed at 17:20 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 05, 2006

Meeting on 2006-04-05
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re live. so please touch the recorder to assent to being recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: where is it?
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Over the table.
Kendra Bancroft has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: ah I see it .. I’ve developed a blindness to floating objects after having lived on first land for so long
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Tonight’s agenda is all constitution. First up…
Claude Desmoulins: …despite all our work on article I we didn’t address ties.
Kendra Bancroft: I favour bowties
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: As I mentioned in the forums this would have happened this election if one more person had voted and gone SDF 1 DPU 2 MPP 3
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Kendra Bancroft: Damn that Ulrika for lleaving a month early
Claude Desmoulins: I think she left just after elections, actually.
Kendra Bancroft: yah –but then I wouldn’t have a punchline
Aliasi Stonebender: We can always ignore reality for the cause of humor!
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway, the seniority tiebreaker is just an idea.
Claude Desmoulins: But we need something.
Flyingroc Chung: do we want some automatic way yo break the tie, rather than some sort of runoff election?
Claude Desmoulins: The traditional coin flip is hard. Who would build the coin, who would script the coin, who would vette the script to ensure objectivity ?
Flyingroc Chung: a coin-flip script is easy
Diderot Mirabeau: well .. that’s what we have an SC for isn’t it? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think we want a run-off because…
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: …the election is already drawn out as it is and a tie would realistically swing the LRA position and perhaps one seat depending on how it broke.
Claude Desmoulins: at most.
Diderot Mirabeau: as I recall it from realidn old forum posts .. the Borda count was chosen originally as a method of ranking seats since it seems to favour smaller parties
Diderot Mirabeau: *reading
Claude Desmoulins: So we want a whole other week of ballots just for that?
Kendra Bancroft: Shouldn’t this really be a matter for the SC to decide?
Aliasi Stonebender: It also favors a consensus government, as opposed to a majority government.
Claude Desmoulins: Possibly.
Diderot Mirabeau: there was a desire to facilitate a flourishing of political diversity .. favouring parties of seniority in the event of a tie seems to run against that philosophy in my view
Claude Desmoulins: If not seniority, what? I’m very open to suggestions.
Flyingroc Chung: I agree, if we base it on seniority, I’d favor the newer party over the older one, we assume the older one has more resources, better entrenched, etc.
Dnate Mars: I agree, why not just a random pick?
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we commission a “tiebreaker object”?
Aliasi Stonebender: trial by combat.
Diderot Mirabeau: either solution would be agreeable in my view … since the one cannot be said to favour one over the other and the other well .. it favours younger parties and thus seems to be inline with the original philosophy of the “founding fathers”
Claude Desmoulins: This is a non-combat sim, isn’t it?
Kendra Bancroft: I agree about younger parties getting the nod
Diderot Mirabeau: I believe we use “stones rocks and scissors” for the board of the MoCA Society
Aliasi Stonebender: so we set the unsafe tag on the Platz for a half-hour. 😛
Claude Desmoulins looks over at our resident ‘founding father’ 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: actually, that might be a good idea.
Kendra Bancroft: who’s yer Daddy
Aliasi Stonebender: Given there’s a pre-existing free rock-paper-scissors game inworld.
Dnate Mars: or maybe favor the party with the least amount of seats?
Dnate Mars: thus allowing the maximum diversity in the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an amendment to the amendment to change longest to shortest? Do you mean least amount in the previous RA?
Claude Desmoulins: Dnate?
Dnate Mars: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I think Flyingroc is the shortest
Claude Desmoulins: What if that was equal?
Flyingroc Chung: wouldnt a tie be possible still given that?
Claude Desmoulins: It would be by faction.
Dnate Mars: then a random pick
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm, another option occurs to me
Claude Desmoulins: At the moment DPU is younger than MPP which is younger than SDF. Any new party in a tie with one of these would win.
Claude Desmoulins: OK?
Dnate Mars: what is that Aliasi?
Aliasi Stonebender: hm, well, probably wouldn’t work, now that I think of it. I was just thinking, since party members are ranked too, maybe somehow use those as a runoff… brain fart, don’t mind me.
Aliasi Stonebender: (Also, in other news.. ZOMG furry Kendra!)
Claude Desmoulins: A random test is the only way to eliminate all ties.
Kendra Bancroft: shhhhhh –or I’ll break out Gorean Kendra
Flyingroc Chung: 0.o
Claude Desmoulins: Not that I dislike the youungest party idea.
Dnate Mars: I would think that even going with the youngest could result in a tie
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: How do we do random in world?
Flyingroc Chung: random pick then
Flyingroc Chung: llFRand
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm, assuming we commission or choose a random method, that seems the best. And I mentioned Huddle’s rock-paper-scissors item.
Dnate Mars: a script
Kendra Bancroft: as long as we don’t do IIAynRand
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: well, the reason for going with that instead of Frand would be, you can’t really ensure the script is “unbiased”…
Dnate Mars: couldn’t the SC approve it
Diderot Mirabeau: let people be their own random seeds
Aliasi Stonebender: not just in terms of a fraudulent programme,r we all know LL’s random number generator is more pseudo than random.
Claude Desmoulins: You mean going with Rock/paper/scissors?
Dnate Mars: then it would be used time and time again?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: best out of three
Dnate Mars: what if there is a 3 way tie?
Aliasi Stonebender: We shoot all involved?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Round robin?
Kendra Bancroft: I heard someone has designed a working ar, wrestle script –let’s use that
Kendra Bancroft: arm wrestle
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, round robin would suffice
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe tallest avatar wasn’t a bad idea.
Claude Desmoulins: Everyone could go 1-1 ?
Dnate Mars: I was thinking that a cube that would spit out a number between 0 and 100, both people pick a number, one closest to the random number wins
Claude Desmoulins: Last week math, this week RPS.
Claude Desmoulins: The pseudo randomness of the generator script is a problem.
Claude Desmoulins: How much does one of those rock paper scissors things cost.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Dnate Mars: llfrand is pretty random, espacially when used just once at a time
Diderot Mirabeau: yes the only truly random seed we get in game is the one that people provide themselves .. that’s why rock – paper – scissors is quite eminently suited actually
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s a freebie, I think, Claude.
Flyingroc Chung: i have confidence that llfrand is pretty random
Dnate Mars: me too, I have yet to find any proof that it is not random
Diderot Mirabeau: but what if a Linden developer suddenly becomes a Neualtenburger?
Dnate Mars: they could fix RPS too
Flyingroc Chung: then we’d not be safe even with rock paper scissors?
Diderot Mirabeau: admittedly somewhat hypothetical
Diderot Mirabeau:
as I understand the rules of the game they are that you determine for yourself what you're going to bet on .. how could your choice be mind-distorted by a Linden developer?
Claude Desmoulins: How about this amendment; “will be resolved by one or more rounds of Rock PAper Scissors best of 3 overseen by the SC dean who will be the custodian ofthe official NBurg RPS device.
Diderot Mirabeau: that sounds great to me
Flyingroc Chung: the linden could collude with one or the other party
Dnate Mars: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on the RPS amendment.
Dnate Mars: is there really any truely “safe” way?
Aliasi Stonebender: there, it’s in the box if you wish to examine it.
Kendra Bancroft: Or whoever lasts longest in a room with Prokofy Neva
Aliasi Stonebender: or you can get it off SLExchange if you don’t trust me. 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Flyingroc Chung: in case of a tie, the seat goes to prokofy!
Sudane Erato: no! 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor of the amendment to the amendment.
Kendra Bancroft: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: I think rock paper scissors work well, if only for the entertainment value
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Diderot Mirabeau: Dnate what’s that outgrowth on your head? 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The problem with this RA is we don’t argue enough –everyone always agrees
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the amendment?
Aliasi Stonebender: you have to take it out of the box, Dnate. 😛
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Dnate Mars: I don’t agree
Dnate Mars: I don’t think that RPS is the best way to do it
Flyingroc Chung: what is, then?
Dnate Mars: random
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, Kendra, but half of what we’ve done is fiddling wording changes and tightening up.
Kendra Bancroft: How likely are we to face a tie ?
Aliasi Stonebender: Nobody want to propose a divisive issue. 😛
Claude Desmoulins: If we want to throw a tie to SC we can. I was trying to spare them having to do it quickly under political pressure.
Flyingroc Chung: RPS is random enough for me
Kendra Bancroft: we’re talking about a seat thats 4 months
Dnate Mars: but is someone knows the other player well enough
Kendra Bancroft: or is it 6?
Claude Desmoulins: 6.
Diderot Mirabeau: knows the other one well enough to what?
Diderot Mirabeau: to know that he has a predisposition towards rocks?
Flyingroc Chung: predict his moves, I suppose
Diderot Mirabeau: then we can change the game to be about melons, cloth and knifes
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone on RA want to offer an amendment to the amendment to go back to a random number generating object?
Sudane Erato: melons can’t wreck knives 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It should be Rock Paper Scissors –but we use the german words
Aliasi Stonebender: play the rock paper scissors spock lizards dynamite version, it’s really on the person who always chooses rock, isn’t it? 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: seriously … it’s “pick a random ballot between 1 – 3” .. how could one’s preference be guessed in advance?
Diderot Mirabeau: make it blunt knives then
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: I say we go for RPS
Claude Desmoulins: I kind of think RPS is in the spirit of the Huhnhut and some of the other things we do here 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Also, in all seriousness, this isn’t without precedent.
Kendra Bancroft: HUnhut –hahaha – chicken hat?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: What precedent?
Aliasi Stonebender: RPS is well-used as a random determinant in Asia, especially Japan.
Claude Desmoulins: And Aliasi, I’m not getting your typing anim.
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s because this sit overrides it, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Kendra Bancroft: How about we have a “Neualtenburg Idol” contest –and I get to be Simon Cowell
Aliasi Stonebender: here, this help?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment as amended…
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Kendra Bancroft: jahvold
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Flyingroc Chung: uh… aliasi?
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK, RPS it is. Someone needs to get Gwyn an RPS device.
Claude Desmoulins: Next…
Aliasi Stonebender: sorry, it’s like people think “gee, let’s all IM Ali during a meeting”…
Claude Desmoulins: II,2
Flyingroc Chung: does changing and with and/or really make the language any clearer?
Kendra Bancroft: This is a clear “aye”
Claude Desmoulins: This is Pelanor’s suggestion to clarify that either goods or service providers can be in the Guild
Kendra Bancroft: the meaning was there to begin with
Claude Desmoulins: I think so.
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s a trivial change, but considering the fight in the US over the grammatical construction of the 2nd amendment, I value clarity.
Sudane Erato: i think it makes sense
Claude Desmoulins: Taken literally , the present language implies that Guild members must provide goods *and* services
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Sudane Erato: with that, I’ll ask you all to excuse me 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: By the way. That’s the 10th constitutional change this term.
Sudane Erato: :(… too much to do…
Claude Desmoulins: Anything you need to tell us about?
Kendra Bancroft: Take it easy, Gildemeisterinn
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: i’m trying to get us to the point of selling the Platz lots…
Sudane Erato: and implementing the notarization of deeds
Aliasi Stonebender: the 10th change, perhaps, but only a few of those have been really meaningful ones, Claude.
Sudane Erato: those are the two current things
Claude Desmoulins: Do you need the auction to be a web site thing, or in world?\
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: well… the auction option would be nice…
Sudane Erato: but the best method is not yet clear
Flyingroc Chung: i’ve got an auction device, if people want to use it
Sudane Erato: I feel
Sudane Erato: is it site based?
Dnate Mars: What are platz lots?
Sudane Erato: or in-world?
Flyingroc Chung: it’s in-world
Sudane Erato: oh!… great!@
Flyingroc Chung: I can show you later, if you want
Diderot Mirabeau: the houses on the marketplace that used to stand empty, Dnate
Sudane Erato: the platz lots are the lots around the platz
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Claude Desmoulins: The ones on the logn sides.
Sudane Erato: yes… roc..
Claude Desmoulins: *long
Sudane Erato: I’ll check with you later
Sudane Erato: an in-world system would be great!
Claude Desmoulins: The next one I do not want to vote on tonight. It is only a disucssion item.
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
Dnate Mars: bye
Claude Desmoulins: Bye
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Sudane … enjoy 🙂 … and thanks for the doors and all btw
Claude Desmoulins: Once we pass it, changing the constitution will be much harder.
Diderot Mirabeau: I notice the proposal is to strip the SC of its veto power over constitutional amendments … what is the reasoning behind that?
Flyingroc Chung: hm, my initial reaction is that “refernda at other times” is so difficult that it’s as good as not allowing it at all
Kendra Bancroft: I have nothing to add to it –but I’ve read it –and it has my support
Diderot Mirabeau: I have of course followed the forum discussion on the topic .. but if anyone could just recap the essential argument in favor of that
Claude Desmoulins: Otherwise we’re not really a democracy because an unelected group can block all change.
__Aliasi
Stonebender__: Basically, to prevent Nburg from becoming an oligarchy with the SC in charge.
Kendra Bancroft: in other words –something we should have had in place when Ulrika was about
Diderot Mirabeau: I can understand that concern
Claude Desmoulins: The other times provision was meant to make it possible in the event of extreme and very broadly agreed upon need.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, essentially.
Diderot Mirabeau: but would it then not just be sufficient to introduce the referendum as a “tiebreaker” in the case where the RA and the SC go heads to heads over a constitutional amendment?
Kendra Bancroft: I need to log off right now –but this has my full support
Claude Desmoulins: that’s why the removal of the sc veto of amendments is tied to the referendum so the RA doesn’t become that same oligarchy.
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, are you coming back?
Flyingroc Chung: well the other thing is to prevent the RA from introducing too many consti amendments
Claude Desmoulins: True, Roc.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be back on later tonight –I’ve not had dinner –I rushed here from work
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes. This term is an exception, because we’re trying to iron out the inconsistencies and bumps in the current constitution…
Aliasi Stonebender: but once that’s done, it should be harder, was what I remember us saying at the time.
Flyingroc Chung: is there a possibility of the RA putting too many referendum items in the ballot?
Dnate Mars: no, I don’t thinks so
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to move this to seven day. So we can let the Sc look at it before we vote.
Diderot Mirabeau: I understand the desire to keep the checks and balances in place .. however I think if there was to be a referendum that the electorate would be better served by having arguments presented both from the RA and the SC on such a weighty issue …
Flyingroc Chung: right and the arguments could still be presented, but would be p to the citizens to decide…
Claude Desmoulins: Something like in the event of an SC veto of a constitutional amendment, the amendment would go to a referendum?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table this. Diderot, please put your proposal in writing. We’ll put it up in the forums and toss it around.
Kendra Bancroft: okay –time to fix my blood sugar
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing…
Kendra Bancroft: see you folks later –thanks for understanding my absences –I’ve had a run of bad depression stuff
Claude Desmoulins: Do we meet next wednesday or the following.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Diderot Mirabeau: no problem Kendra .. get better soon .. and see you around 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Tschau
Claude Desmoulins: email me with your preference.
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 16:58 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 19, 2006

Meeting on 2006-04-19
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Now touch the recorder.
Kendra Bancroft has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Logan Bauer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Flyingroc indicated he would be late.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It definitely should give the touchee some feedback…
Claude Desmoulins: There is but one agenda item this evening.
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor, I had requested agenda items be submitted by 8 SLT yesterday evening.
Claude Desmoulins: As you *all* know, it’s been an interesting couple of weeks.
Claude Desmoulins: I fervently believe that despite the contentiousness of the discourse, we agree on most of the major points here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or at least a few of the minor ones 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Oh, no sweat, in my postings I mentioned that it’s too late for this meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: I believe there are two issues in play here, which can be addressed independently of one another.
Claude Desmoulins: One is the question of how to place a check on a potentially tyrannical SC.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s look at that one first.
Kendra Bancroft: I suggest the chair is drawing conclusions and would ask this be re-phrased
Kendra Bancroft: Unless it is his wish to start out contentious
Diderot Mirabeau: drawing conclusions on what???
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s try this differently.
Kendra Bancroft: He’s framing the discussion to suit his own conclusion
Diderot Mirabeau: what is your suggestion for a rephrasal then?
Kendra Bancroft: How can we mainain adequate checks and balances
Claude Desmoulins: To my knowledge, no one has suggested that the constitution as it now stands fails to check the power of the Guild or RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone believe that to be the case?
Kendra Bancroft: Then why frame it as if there is a problem?
Claude Desmoulins: That is to say…
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pelanor Eldrich: Semantics, just go with Kendra’s starting point.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m anti-semantic as you all know
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: everyone believes that if this body or the guild sought to abuse their power, the existing structures would clearly prevent this, correct?
Kendra Bancroft: I believe so –yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d agree
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t believe the same level of consensus exists regarding the SC. Am I wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … since impeachment is *always* an option 😉 But that’s another story.
Kendra Bancroft: So I fail to see why we would seek to lessen the power of one of those branches
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… just because there is no consensus on it?
Kendra Bancroft: Power of impeachment is already a sufficient check
Claude Desmoulins: This may be as simple as clarifying the impeachment procedures, which I believe Gwyn tried to do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Kendra
Claude Desmoulins: I would agree if….
Kendra Bancroft: Then is that not a matter for ALL branches to meet on?
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s what worries me at some level.
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC is acting collectively, I can imagine them closing ranks around an accused member. They are the jury in impeachments after all…..
Kendra Bancroft: That is incorrect
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn;s notion of recusing multiple members simultaneously addresses this concern
Claude Desmoulins: Please explain, Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: In the event of an Impeachment hearing brought by both the Guild and the RA against a member of the SC –The Gildemeister sits as if he/she is a member of the SC
Claude Desmoulins: He/She has only one vote of a possible 9.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, a member appointed by the Guild (could be someone else), and that member sits as the Head of the SC
Kendra Bancroft: But it prevents this consolidation you speak of
Claude Desmoulins: Couldn’t an SC working in concert overrun this one vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Head of the SC ? Dean or the Guild member sitting ? just has one vote.
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Gwyn you are right –but Im assuming here the Guild would appoint their Gildemeister
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, if the RA impeaches an SC member
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Guildmeister *has* to sit as head of the RA during the impeachment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that’s why the Constitution says “it can be another member”
Kendra Bancroft: ahhhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I think nothing prevents the Gildemeister to sit on *both* hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Weird, though.
Kendra Bancroft: The point is that the imagined danger that Claude supposes is notn there
Claude Desmoulins: What stops it?
Kendra Bancroft: and I have to wonder why he even imagines this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if the SC works as a block
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if you impeach just one of them
Claude Desmoulins: Exactly my concern.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the others can always out-vote the guild member.
Kendra Bancroft: But if they are acting as a block –why would just one be impeached?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Kendra, I really agree.
Claude Desmoulins: I imagine it because the test of a framework is not when things go well, but when all heck breaks loose.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’d be impeached as a block as well, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: right, Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: If we agree that they can be impeached as a block. I’m fine with the status quo.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the guild member would be the only one having a vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Kendra Bancroft: So in effect –Claude–you are seeking to lame the SC in case some imagined threat occurs
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I read the Constitution, I don’t see anything specific that forbids “impeachment as a block”
Claude Desmoulins: It occurs to me that it may be all academic.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s all irresponsible to assume the worst –you begin to create a monster when you do
Claude Desmoulins: The SC is after all the arbiter of how these processes work.
Kendra Bancroft: an experience we’ve seen many times occur in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, well, this is arguable, because the Constitution always talks about “impeachment of A member” (singular), but is not clear if an impeachment can be on SEVERAL members, all to be on trial on a single hearing.
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer to think of it as being very cautious.
Kendra Bancroft: Then lets clarify the Impeachment section –not cripple the sections that deal with how things work status quo
Claude Desmoulins: It think that one way or another it needs to be clarified, even if that is via an SC opinion.
Claude Desmoulins: Fine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Can the SC do this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, since you’re asking us to clarify it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another item on the agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the SC’s agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: They are supposed to be the interpreters of the documents and the less political thus is the better,
Claude Desmoulins: *this.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: None here 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi Rubaiyat .. have a seat when you’re rezzed) 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (*waves* at Rubaiyat)
Sudane Erato: hello :)!
Claude Desmoulins: Item two.
Claude Desmoulins: Many seem to believe that amending the constitution is too easy. What does the RA think?
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s incumbent on the SC to clarify this –and if they wish to be politic –present there findings to the other two branches for advice
Claude Desmoulins: Impeachment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I think that comment of Kendra’s was still on the impeachment, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s far too easy to amend the Constitution
Claude Desmoulins: So, what do we do about it?
Kendra Bancroft: We need to meet in person with the SC
Claude Desmoulins: Add a referendum post /contingent on SC approval?
Kendra Bancroft: There’s not in my opinion enough tri-lateral meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, yes, since the RA acting in tandem with the SC can do as many amendments as they wish (currently, this means, 6 people ? 4 from RA, 2 from SC can do whatever they want, unbounded)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although you asked the RA’s opinion, and I’m not an RA member…
Kendra Bancroft: That’s the way I see it too, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … your own solution: moving all amendments to be approved at the end of term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: your = Claude’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would mean: just one “block amendment” per term.
Claude Desmoulins: Thank you for your precise description of the issue.
Claude Desmoulins: This is one where I’m not sure I agree with you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternative #2 (Pelanor’s suggestion?): post-approval referendum
Claude Desmoulins: As long as there’s a single act of voting, why not have multiple measures on a referendum ballot?
Claude Desmoulins: Or was it Patroklus’s?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry. probably 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: #2 has the advantage of only bothering the people with a rederendum when SC signs off.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pelanor Eldrich: Too many referenda are bad (RL experience)
Pelanor Eldrich: *is
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees hehe (personal opinion here, not official one!!!)
Kendra Bancroft: How about giving the SC a line item veto?
Claude Desmoulins: By which do you mean…. 1) going to the polls every other week
Claude Desmoulins: or 2) having 25 items on a ballot.
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *pokes* Pelanor 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Let me think.
Claude Desmoulins: For example, let’s apply the proposed system to our recent work as a hypothetical.
Pelanor Eldrich: If it’s at end of term, is it a block up or down on 25 items?
Claude Desmoulins: Since the SC has agreed to the amendments so far….
Claude Desmoulins: That’s the question. I prefer not.
Claude Desmoulins: …at RA election time there would be 10 up or down votes on amendments in addition to faction ranking.
Pelanor Eldrich: You could do 25 propositions at end of term
Claude Desmoulins: Any problem with that?
Pelanor Eldrich: line item
Kendra Bancroft: I agree with Pel –line item veto
Claude Desmoulins: Sc already has line item, don’t they?
Claude Desmoulins: For example.
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s good. Make sure if they are referenda, that the questions are phrased very clearly. Nothing like the 1980 Quebec referendum question
Diderot Mirabeau: yes .. they may “rewrite and resubmit”
Gwyneth Llewelyn is silent, since those procedures for voting do not violate the Constitution in her opinion.
Claude Desmoulins: RA has passed 10 amendments this term.
Claude Desmoulins: SC has the right to approve, veto or modify each of those amendments .
Claude Desmoulins: separate from any other of the ten amendments.
Pelanor Eldrich: This sounds like election propositions in CA, those things are bloody verbose and cumbersome
Kendra Bancroft: The problem is that this body is positioning the SC as another political body, when in fact they are Constitutional scholars
Diderot Mirabeau: “modify and resubmit” .. subject to RA approval of course 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Under the current constitution
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d just want the
Kendra Bancroft: if they fail in that –they are by definition not fulfilling their role and are impeachable –end of story
Claude Desmoulins: Since they must assent to an amendment…
Pelanor Eldrich: SC to make sure the questions are clearly worded.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t want the people to go to the trouble of a referendum and then have the SC balk.
Claude Desmoulins: I want the SC to balk first.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can just comment on this saying that, from personal PoV, having to vote on a document with 50 items, each to have a paragraph to explain it, and doing a vote for each item… well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hardly possible in-world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: too many notecards to read 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: But if there’s a voting web site?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem there, so many good polling systems are freely available.
Pelanor Eldrich: Or maybe prop A (yes/no), Prop B (yes/no)
Kendra Bancroft: I think the RAs approach to the SC should be the same as it’s approach to the Guild.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree with Gwyneth from a personal point of view .. it becomes too technical for the average citizen .. also different amendments may actually depend on each other .. we should leave the actual craftmanship of constitutional amendment to the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Diderot.
Kendra Bancroft: You commision the Guild to create a structure –similarly we should commision the SC to clarify a point we find unclear
Claude Desmoulins: I believe the people deserve the same right to be granular and consider each proposed amendment on its individual merits.
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi Aliasi)
Claude Desmoulins: Then why have the amendment mechanism at all?
Kendra Bancroft: indeed –why? It’s not the RAs reason of being
Claude Desmoulins: What is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, that was just one possible PoV ? as long as the issue will not ‘confuse’ the citizens, the SC cannot find any problems with that ? ‘voting procedures’, if they’re somehow accountable, is all that is needed
Kendra Bancroft: Administrative in response to the will of the people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hiya Aliasi 🙂 )
Aliasi Stonebender: (yo.)
Diderot Mirabeau: I think we’re talking past each other here .. I hear Claude as asking why have constitutional reform take place as individual amendments rather than en bloc in the RA
Pelanor Eldrich: Put the stuff on the ballot subject to SCs clarified wording, RA’s final wording approval as prop A/Z. Flesh out the propositions on the web or fourm postings
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t understand that either.
Claude Desmoulins likes individual amendments.
Diderot Mirabeau: ok sorry … what caused you to ask “why have the amendment procedure at all” then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes individual amendments
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra said, I think….
Claude Desmoulins: ….that the SC should clarify the constitution rather than the RA amend it. Did I understand you correctly, Kendra?
Pelanor Eldrich: Referendums are usally single question, divisive earth shattering things…at least in my experience.
Kendra Bancroft: Yes
Kendra Bancroft: at least the RA should not become an amendment factory
Kendra Bancroft: amendments should be a last resort not a first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, amending the Constitution is one of the powers of the RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Hence my question about the purpose of the amendment procedure.
Kendra Bancroft: I ncfase of need, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: With due respect I see it this way.
Kendra Bancroft: I am regularly seeing us put forth amendments when simple clarification and interpretation would suffice
Diderot Mirabeau: I think there has been widespread consent to the need for a clearing up of the hastily written constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To better fit the Constitution to an ever-changing world, and an ever-changing group of citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘hastily’, lol ? it took us some 10 weeks, a 20-person team or so 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: it is also better from an ideal of transparency to have the basic rules codified as clear text in the constitution rather than hidden away in 541 legal interpretations of the SC
Claude Desmoulins: For one reason or another, a constitution full of ambiguity and in many cases flat out contrary to actual practice has been allowed to remain.
Diderot Mirabeau: you were working under a deadline nevertheless
Kendra Bancroft: That is why I don’t like amendments –a fluid Constitution is reinterpretaed each generation –not forcefully rewritten by an individual session of the RA
Claude Desmoulins: The SC hadn’t addressed it. The DPU ran on addressing the issue.
Claude Desmoulins: For example.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, or else we’d take a whole year ? but that’s past history, and this is the present.
Kendra Bancroft: And the SDF opposes the DPU on this issue
Claude Desmoulins: Your explanation of the meaning of IV,4 was very helpful.
Pelanor Eldrich: We don’t have a pile of precendents and case law to rely on
Claude Desmoulins: Why wasn’t it in writing somewhere? Where did it come from?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well… it came from the forums
Kendra Bancroft: Amendments ties the hands of future generations unecessarily
Diderot Mirabeau: I would like to restate my opinion that from an ideal of transparency and clarity vis a vis our citizenry it is better to have the wording and content of the constitution reflect actual practice rather than to force people to look through forums
Claude Desmoulins: Not if they have the same opportunities to amend that we do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude & Diderot’s points are very valid ones. With 5500 posts or so, and crappy searching tools, all we can is to rely upon our +memory’
Kendra Bancroft: Then it becomes worthless paper
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ‘memory’ is as good as each person’s memory is.
Kendra Bancroft: A Consttitution is framework –if the RA seeks to write legislation that is another matter
Claude Desmoulins: Besides, a referendum would likely cause fewer amendments. Isn’t that what you wnt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think it’s not a good system, to be able to agree on our ‘collective memory’ to make interpretations.
Claude Desmoulins: *want
Kendra Bancroft: we are turning the Consttitution into a law book
Kendra Bancroft: that is not it’s purpose
Pelanor Eldrich: It needs to reflect current practice and be concrete.
Pacifien Massiel: Some people would define constitutions as law documents. You might want to be clear on what definition everyone is working on.
Claude Desmoulins: If so that train left the station a long time ago. This RA did not write the campaign regulations into the constitution.
Aliasi Stonebender: Just as a minor example – for the longest time, the Constitution said the RA needed 7 member,s minimum. the RA has never had 7 members in the time I have been in Neualtenburg.
Pelanor Eldrich: Fair enough, it is a framework. We have 10 amendments, one is a change to and/or from and
Kendra Bancroft: yes –and those are fine –but this RA is starting to consider amendments as if they were simply laws –there are efforts to place needless amendments in the Constitution
Claude Desmoulins: For example?
Diderot Mirabeau: examples?
Kendra Bancroft: For example –an amendment to change how the RA submots amendments?
Kendra Bancroft: that is so bizarre
Kendra Bancroft: why wouldn’t the RA simply codify it’s own methods for an individual session?
Kendra Bancroft: why is that to be an amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: Unless you believe the document is cast in stone, there must be an amendment procedure.
Claude Desmoulins: Because it doesn’t change what the RA does in this respect.
Kendra Bancroft: I disagree
Claude Desmoulins: It adds something outside of RA procedure.
Claude Desmoulins: What would the RA do differently under this procedure?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA cannot pass a bill to change the amendments in a way that the Constitution is ‘overruled’. To do that, the Constitution itself has to be amended.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why the RA has this *power* of amending the Constitution 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s an unneeded addition to the Constitution that could very well be stricken out later –why the need to add it to a founding document?
Kendra Bancroft: when an internal procedural ruling for the RA would suffice
Aliasi Stonebender: Although the oddity of that is interesting… since the SC has the power to veto anything the RA passes that conflicts with the founding documents; amendments conflict by definition.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll refer that to the dean.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Or is there a ‘basic structure’ provision like in the Indian constitution.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Kendra Bancroft: How much time are we wasting by incorporating things as amendments which we know will be transient issues to our time only?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I think that constitutional amendments are not bound to be interpreted by the constitution itself (for the obvious deadlock)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the only interpretations that would apply would be,…
Diderot Mirabeau: the other founding documents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the founding documents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: Good to have that clarified, then.
Kendra Bancroft: I never imagined Id become a federalist –but here we are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that’s one possible interpretation ? to make it official, the SC has to do it in a session.
Claude Desmoulins: If you want we can leave it as is and six people can change the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the major problem I see
Kendra Bancroft: I realize I’m a minoiry party voice –but I am opposed in general to the RA becoming an amendment factory
Kendra Bancroft: Thats my basic stance on this issue
Diderot Mirabeau: I think you might actually agree on the need to tighten up the possibilities for amending the constitution
Diderot Mirabeau: why don’t you turn this agreement into something constructive
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, are you troubled by the fact that six people can change the constitution?
Kendra Bancroft: Deeply
Claude Desmoulins: What do you propose we do about it?
Pelanor Eldrich: Do we not like Patrokulus’ proposal?
Diderot Mirabeau: I do.
Kendra Bancroft: recognize our responsabilities to future generations of Nburgers and take our responsabilities seriously. I have no problem with the mechanics –I have a problem with the mentality of change for the sake of change
Claude Desmoulins: The change here would be for the sake of slowing change, or so I thought.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t see how granting the RA more power to change the Constitution slows change
Diderot Mirabeau: pardon me but I thought we were discussing how to make it more difficult to have constitutional amendments passed in the future
Claude Desmoulins: How does adding a referendum without modifying the SC veto grant the RA more power?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, wait… Patroklus’ suggestion is the other way round, I think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it grants the RA less power.
Kendra Bancroft: it IS the other way around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It even grants the SC less power as well.
Kendra Bancroft: Claude is arguing for less power in the SC isn’t he?
Claude Desmoulins: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In this case, both SC & RA would be lessened somewhat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except for the veto.
Claude Desmoulins: SC keeps the same veto it already has.
Kendra Bancroft: Good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so it means: on the ‘nay’ issue, the SC gets the same power.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the ‘aye’ issue, the SC gets less power ? since it still needs a validation by the citizens.
Kendra Bancroft: Thats fine –as I say I have no problem with the mechanics
Pelanor Eldrich: yay!
Kendra Bancroft: I have problems with this RA becoming an amendment factory –many times we should just be asking the SC for clarification
Claude Desmoulins: So what have we been arguing about:)
Pelanor Eldrich: We could limit the number of amendments per term
Kendra Bancroft: We’re arguing about the very need for amendments as a our first response to an issue
Claude Desmoulins: Aren’t we then predicting the future?
Kendra Bancroft: No –we don’t need to make it law –we need to step back and ask first if an amendment is actually needed
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Who’s SC archivist?
Pelanor Eldrich: Couldn’t the SC veto frivolous amendments?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no one appointed yet officially, hehe. We never came to that point on the last meetings’ agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC talks too much, and concludes few things 😛
Claude Desmoulins: With no disrespect intended…
Kendra Bancroft: Couldn’t we be more responsable and not add to the beaurocracy of wasted meeting time when a simple request to the SC is all that is required?
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d leave that up to the judgement and consicence of individual members of the RA and citizens as is currently the case .. we cannot ignore that constituational amendment is to a certain extent a political aspiration and that full consensus cannot be …
Diderot Mirabeau: … reached on the attitude towards these
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s rare that a request to the SC is simple…. I thought that that was the whole point of ‘requesting’ the SC for input.
Claude Desmoulins: ….that person, as soon as they are appointed, needs to get on their horse and codify all the SC precedent that’s laying around.
Claude Desmoulins: I believe if it were available and findable,,,,
Diderot Mirabeau: for 1,000 L$ per month .. welcome to the jungle
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude is totally right on this!
Claude Desmoulins: ,,,,,it would clarify many things that the RA now proposes amendments to clarify.
Kendra Bancroft: I agree to that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quite so. However, I might remind you that most of the clarifications you’ve seeked recently through amendments
Pelanor Eldrich: Case law, precedent, and SC opinions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: were almost all (to the best of my memory) *new* issues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: new loopholes keep popping up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just like bugs in SL’s code 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: mortgage? 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Kendra Bancroft: exactly Gwyn –and that is what I am saying –was it necessary to have amendments passed? Or could not we have asked the SC for a ruling instead?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose that in some cases, that would have been possible.
Diderot Mirabeau: so we would get an out of date document and 574 footnotes saying “actually it’s not seven RA members it’s five”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That one, for instance, was definitely a needed amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there are more
Claude Desmoulins: yet to be done?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, if I might be so bold… almost all amendments were ‘needed’ so far
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in my PoV
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is perhaps a floow-up on a WAY old post
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we’ll amend things later as needed, let’s start with the Constitution as we have it”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m quite likely quoting myself from 18 months ago, so I might not have the right words.
Kendra Bancroft: you have the gist.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I can’t really, in conscience, be *against* amendments.
Kendra Bancroft: Do we recognize that not all laws need be in the Constitution proper?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Kendra. The less, the better!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in fact
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even the Constitution right now
Pelanor Eldrich: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: has too many contradictions already!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It could be ‘shorter’
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Pelanor Eldrich: I think we’ve passed 24 laws
Kendra Bancroft: I agree the Consttitution should get smaller
Claude Desmoulins: Unfortunately, many things often handled in regular legislation (size of legislature/election rules) are in our constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps that simply means they don’t need to be there.
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like to submit a proposal that we create a seperate book of laws
Claude Desmoulins: I proposed making election rules a matter of regular law and got verbally mugged.
Pelanor Eldrich: We can have them stricken by *shudder* amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: We have one. The Neualtenburg Code.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, this is a side-note… but sometimes I get the feeling that some people have the idea that the Constitution was written on a weekend with all-nighters 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: and boozed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, it really took 10 weeks or so of heavy discussion,
Kendra Bancroft: Then thats where we should be adding much of this –the SC can rule it’s Constitutioanlity if a citizen objects to the law
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but naturally enough, lots of points were simply badly written due to deadlines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra, hmm…
Kendra Bancroft: Gwyn –it was
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the notion of a Code of Laws
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to supplement the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: was argued.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it would be impossible to write one up in those weeks 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we would have to draw upon one existing RL code of laws
Claude Desmoulins: I still maintain we have that de facto in the collected acts of the RA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like, hmm, Roman law, napoleonic law, even the Code of Hammurabi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re usually starting points for systems with codes of laws… you might all know that 90% of the laws regarding property and divorce
Gwyneth Llewelyn: are almost all Roman law 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they had about a thousand years to discuss that 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Did you know most marriage laws in the US and UK are based on old viking laws?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Claude, just to say ? 24 laws are not really “a code of laws”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Kendra 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: They’re the beginning of one, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well
Kendra Bancroft: Could we not consider starting a repositary of law?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since we’ve defined originally N’burg to have a legal system based on precedent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s more a repository of laws, yes
Kendra Bancroft: that is seperate from the Constitution but beholden to it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that’s the intention, yes.
Pelanor Eldrich: I thought that’s what the code was…we’ve passed more of these than amendments
Diderot Mirabeau: I find it contradictory to hear that “we’ve defined originally N’burg to have a legal system based on precedent”
Claude Desmoulins: I really thought we were doing that. Much of the current activity is a direct response to the high level of detail in the constitution itself.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, based on common law instead of civil law, then, Diderot 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: it is kinda funny Dido
Diderot Mirabeau: and at the same time be able to read in the constitution that “SC members are not bound by a strict reading of the constitution, precedent ” et cetera
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the key word there is *strict*
Diderot Mirabeau: the meaning of which needs an interpretation itself .. based on precedent presumably
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or not.
Diderot Mirabeau: oh do you see it defined anywhere?
Kendra Bancroft: and the SC can define that by interpretation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Rather members of the SC are required to draw upon their individual fields of expertise to solve complex social issues.”
Diderot Mirabeau: that is hardly strict
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I mean… the interpretation should not be strict
Diderot Mirabeau: anyway .. this is getting philosophical .. let’s reserve it for the SC meeting afterparty 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, LOL
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If you aren’t going to use the written law and constitution as the primary source for interpretation, why write it down?
Diderot Mirabeau: I certainly am
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a framework
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, yes, I see Claude’s point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s still the primary source.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t wish to force the SC to be strict constructionists.
Diderot Mirabeau: but there’s a difference between “primary source” and “strict reading”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is that when you just have 24 laws, there might not be enough precedent.,
Pelanor Eldrich: yuck
Kendra Bancroft: It’s like in the US –privacy is not mentioned in the Constitution –but has been deduced by penumbra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and once deduced thusly, it became ‘precedent’ 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There seems to be quite a bit of precedent that no one can find.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s the intention.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Pelanor Eldrich: Did we figure out what to do about referenda?
Diderot Mirabeau: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a sense, I think we’re back into the Middle Ages ? lots of information around, but you can’t find it 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: weve talked it to death –we could put it up to a vote
Pelanor Eldrich: That SC archivist better get busy cuz I’m gonna ask for a ruling or opinion everyday
Claude Desmoulins: Where’s your librarian when you need him?
Diderot Mirabeau: and it could even be changed .. in so far as it relies on a forum posting for documentation
Diderot Mirabeau: now _that’s_ scary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess no one is interested in that daunting task, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and good point, Diderot, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We’d have to go seven day and do we even agree on what we’d be voting on?
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t feel sure that you agree on what you’re voting on .. I’d feel a lot more confident if the proposal was put in wording orally here
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather table and have someone resubmit.
Kendra Bancroft: Put it in words, Claude –and we’ll vote on it/
Claude Desmoulins: We have several versions on the table.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s an amendment, hence 2/3, hence 7 day.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s where I think we are.
Claude Desmoulins: Amend as follows.
Diderot Mirabeau: the one I noticed getting the most attention was subjecting all constitutional amendments that receive a 2/3 vote from RA and an aye from SC to a referendum at the end of an RA term
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Kendra Bancroft: That seems do-able
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How exactly the mechanics are done can be left for a later stage.
Claude Desmoulins: After the ratification of any amendment by the SC, the amendment is submitted to a binding referendum of the citizenry at the same time as the next RA election…..
Pelanor Eldrich: Line item, clear, up or down
Kendra Bancroft: See that turns us into a mob rule again
Claude Desmoulins: ….Each amendment is a separate item and requires a simple majority of yes votes among votes cast and a voter turnourt of greater than 50%’
Diderot Mirabeau: two outstanding issues … electorate votes aye / no en bloc or per amendment … and what is the required majority by the electorate .. are those to be considered “details”? 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Amendment A-Z, Prop A-Z
Diderot Mirabeau: ah Claude preempted me on that one 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was sure he would, Diderot 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer separation as is no doubt obvious.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d like to hear Kendra’s basic outlook on that proposal before we adjourn / submit it to a vote
Kendra Bancroft: I’m fine with your proposal –I’ll be voting NO” on it.
Diderot Mirabeau: reason being?
Diderot Mirabeau: you don’t like it getting harder to implement a constitutional amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: WHat would you change to be able to vote yes?
Pelanor Eldrich: You prefer it en bloc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shh Diderot, kendra’s allowed to vote no without giving a reason!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: yes but I’m part of the electorate
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t like the idea of an uniformed citizenry not present for the counter-balancing arguments having the chance to vote on issues affecting the Constitution that they may or may not understand
Claude Desmoulins: So you would prefer to leave things as they are?
Pelanor Eldrich: We respect your opinion as co-founder
Diderot Mirabeau: the way I see it .. involving the citizenry in a referendum like this actually encourages the ideal that Neualtenburg was set up around … promoting the active citizen involvement in political life
Kendra Bancroft: That’s what Ive been saying. Though I’d add line item veto to strengthen the SCs ability to rule some ideas of the RA as favorable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We respect *all* opinions!
Kendra Bancroft: Citizens become involved by input at meetings –and running for elected office
Claude Desmoulins: Explain to me why the Sc doesn’t have a line item veto as is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, claude, you can write up a constitutional amendment with 574 items.
Kendra Bancroft: because they are subject to voting up or down on bills as submitted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC can only say ‘aye’ or ‘no’ on the whole document at the moment.
Diderot Mirabeau: SC may “rewrite and resubmit”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Claude Desmoulins: I respectfully disagree- exactly Diderot.
Kendra Bancroft: wouldnt line item streamline the process?
Pelanor Eldrich: If I were in the SC, I’d shitcan an amendment with 574 items, as surely there’s one that would rub me the wrong way legally.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pelanor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: That is line item de facto, no?
Diderot Mirabeau: I think the present wording gives us opportunity for detailed input through a formal process .. I see no need for an unnecessary amendment to introduce the particular word of the “line item veto”
Kendra Bancroft: I like the term shitcan –lets put it in the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the SC might find 573 of them blameless… and would have to veto the whole document… and ask the SC to start from scratch…
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Claude Desmoulins: They would veto, resubmit with only the 573 items they approved.
Diderot Mirabeau: I would
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s Canadian for “veto” 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and that doesnt strike you as a waste of time?
Claude Desmoulins: If nothing else it forces the RA to read the veto carefully.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m naturally talking extremes here.
Claude Desmoulins: We want to slow down constitutional change, remember?
Kendra Bancroft: we want to slow down RA Constitutional change
Claude Desmoulins: And a line item w/o referendum does that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, positively thinking, I’d probably expect that a 574-line amendment would be publicly discussed, and the SC would say that it just disagrees with *one* item, so would you reconsider it, and just submit the remaining 573….
Diderot Mirabeau: are you arguing that the SC should be allowed to make changes to a bill and not have to resubmit it to the RA first before approval in its modified form?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack I disagree with that, from a personal point of view!
Kendra Bancroft: If we are to accept the SC as arbiters of the Constitution –then yes
Diderot Mirabeau: it might severely perversify the original intentions of the lawmakers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have to disagree, since it would make the SC a legislative body ? which it isn’t, and shouldn’t be.
Diderot Mirabeau: *pervert(?)
Kendra Bancroft: I’m njust stating my view here and how I intend to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: and it’s much appreciated 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I would repectfully submit that I have grave concerns about the line item proposal you present. I also have my suspicions that The SC isn’t chomping at the bit on this one either 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I thought It’d be here’s 574, SC says “Shitcan due to this opinion on 234”, RA rewrites, resubmits, then SC says “Okidokey”, then referendum..no?
Kendra Bancroft: Then I wouldn’t worry about it –since it’s likelyhood of passing is nil isn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: But I believe Ms. Bancroft has no desire for any kind of referendum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be the ‘regular’ working on what I consider healthy government, Pelanor.
Claude Desmoulins: Therefore, we may be at an impasse.
Diderot Mirabeau: I still think it makes sense to not have amendments come into effect before commencement of next term since it would give the electorate a chance to hold accountable the politicains who approved of the amendment before it has an impact on society
Pelanor Eldrich: C’mon, maybe we need compromise #1. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I am surprised at your manifest distrust of the population.
Kendra Bancroft: That makes sense to me Dido
Claude Desmoulins: What was compromise #1 again?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After all I’ve heard lately, I also agree with you, Didders 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Just being silly…I haven’t thought of it yet…
Kendra Bancroft: and it is the proper way to involve the citizenry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also make constitutional amendments much harder, and only once per term.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s consider this.
Pelanor Eldrich: Oh yeah, ok, how about referendum at mid-term?
Diderot Mirabeau: the referendum is not politically feasible I believe
Pelanor Eldrich: So this referendum is only constitutional amendments, right?
Claude Desmoulins: If an amendment is delayed until the beginning of the next term. and the populace votes out the proposing RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Then the amendment comes into force with the new RA who vote to repeal it.
Claude Desmoulins: Which doesn’t happen until the next term.
Pelanor Eldrich: ahhh
Claude Desmoulins: Awkward.
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why the RA proposing the amendment has to approve it first, the SC ratify it, and only then have simultaneous elections + referendum on the amendments.
Diderot Mirabeau: but at least its better to have new people govern under the powers granted by the old people than have the authors of the original amendment actually use the new powers given to them by their own amendment if the people doesn’t like it
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, end of term
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table this until next week. Clearly there is more discussion to be had.Claude Desmoulins: Kendra. I have one more question.
Diderot Mirabeau: but Gwyneth as I understand it the referendum is not politically feasible?
Claude Desmoulins: Do you still believe I am attempting an illegal and anti constitutional populist power grab?
Diderot Mirabeau: I never believed that
Kendra Bancroft: I beleive that your stance is a populist stance. I don’t believe you are using it for power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Diderot ? why isn’t it ‘politically feasible’?)
Diderot Mirabeau: oops .. I’m not Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry to interrupt, Claude & Kendra ? I’m typing too slow.
Claude Desmoulins: Fair enough. I’ll accept the label of populist. I’ve been called worse 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: it seems there will not be a qualified majority for it in the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an objection to adjournment?
Diderot Mirabeau: no
Kendra Bancroft: none here –and I hope that this body will at least respect me for voting my concious
Claude Desmoulins: Absolutely.
Pelanor Eldrich: You betcha!
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 17:51 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 03, 2006

Meeting on 2006-05-03
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: And we’re live.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the box.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Flyingroc Chung: done
Patroklus Murakami: done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope I clicked it as well.
Claude Desmoulins: First.
Claude Desmoulins: With Logan’s departure, there is no one left on the DPU list. Therefore under I,2 the faction has named Pleanor Eldrich to fill the seat.
Sudane Erato: great!
Claude Desmoulins: First item.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC hearing.
Claude Desmoulins: Patroklus, this was yours.
Patroklus Murakami: Yes, as I’ve outlined on the forums i think the SC reached a fair decision but by unfair means
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens.
Patroklus Murakami: I believe the process used was flawed
Patroklus Murakami: but i dont’ believe that the solution is impeachment you’ll be pleased to hear
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why was the process flawed?
Patroklus Murakami: if the RA agrees with me i propose a motion of censure to indicate the RAs disapproval
Patroklus Murakami: the process was flawed because there was no legal basis (that i can find) for the sanciton imposed
Patroklus Murakami: *sanction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. So… you mean, the sanctions should not be up for the Sc to decide?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who should decide the sanctions then?
Patroklus Murakami: i think the SC should have ordered a trial and invited ulrika to present herself for trial
Claude Desmoulins: But due process doesn’t necessarily equal a trial.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah… again, that is our (unresolved) issue.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, all the UDHR says… let me quote it properly
Claude Desmoulins: I was troubled by the lack of separation between investigation/prosecution/ and judgement.
Claude Desmoulins: However.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: UDHR, Art 10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a hearing, it was public, it was fair, Ulrika was invited, she declined to be present.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but sent her testimonial
Flyingroc Chung: I think the sanction is too light to merit a trial, it’s a simple administrative act. The guld does this all the time…
Claude Desmoulins: And I do question how independent the tribunal was in this case since the same people investigated, brought charges, and ruled on their result.
Patroklus Murakami: i would contend that the SC was not independant and impartial
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is another issue, FR, and the more we talk about it, the more I tend to agree with you.
Patroklus Murakami: for claude’s reasons
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude. that is indeed a limitation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I do agree.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need a separation of the Sc in 3 branches ? judiciary/investigative, prosecution, judgement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But alas
Patroklus Murakami: by what legal authority does the SC or Guild impose these sanctions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we don’t have enough people .
Flyingroc Chung: “Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution.” — article 3 section 1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s the SC’s task
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You might argue about in which way the SC does “enforcement”
Claude Desmoulins: It would be better if specific penalties were indicated for certain violations, but the authors of the founding documents didn’t do that.
Patroklus Murakami: that does not, to my mind, empower the SC to bar a non-citizen from becomin a citizen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course not, Claude ? since when the Constitution was created, there were no laws.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sanctions come after the laws are created
Claude Desmoulins: Absent those written penal codes, shall no punishment exist?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, so the issue you have is with the legality of the specific sanction applied, Patroklus?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, as far as I understand, the SC determined that from previous actions, Ulrika was unlikely to respect the constitution, thus bars her from becoming a citizen…
Patroklus Murakami: that is a main objection
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds FR
Patroklus Murakami: i’m saying they had no power to do so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who validates the oath of upholding the requirements for being a citizen?
Claude Desmoulins: Could they not be seen to be interpreting the constitutional provision which requires citizens uphold the constitution?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry gwyn, could you elaborate?
Flyingroc Chung: The constitution requires every citizen to abide by the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. if someone is handed the deed notecard and the sim owner says: “do you agree to obey the laws?” and people say “I do” and they are lying, who validates that?
Flyingroc Chung: VI, section 1: “Citizens must agree to uphold the constitution.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, and in my mind, “upholding the constitution” is one of the SC’s tasks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, if a citizen is not willing to go with the laws/constitutions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the SC’s job to gently nudge them
Patroklus Murakami: i interpet ‘upholding the constitution’ so refer to the SCs role in interpreting laws passed by the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Patroklus Murakami: *to refer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Patroklus I see your point!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So who enforces those laws then?
Claude Desmoulins: How does that apply to a citizen not on RA given the section FR cited?
Patroklus Murakami: not to disciplining non-citizens
Flyingroc Chung: well actually the word here is “enforce”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, who does the enforcement then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what does “enforce” mean?
Flyingroc Chung: enforce |en?f?rs| verb trans. compel observance of or compliance with (a law, rule, or obligation).
Patroklus Murakami: under the current arrangements there is no legal basis for enforcement, except that bestowed to teh sim owner by linden law
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you Patroklus… although all this might be a bit lost, the SC did, in fact, discuss this *a lot*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I happen to disagree. While I might, as a matter of principle, disagree that teh SC does all the job ? interpretation, policing, judiciary, prosecution, judging, and jury
Patroklus Murakami: i have read the transcript carefully, i know everyone worked very hard on this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the point is, that was always been interpreted as being the SC’s tasks
Claude Desmoulins: My sense is that although I might not agree with the whole process, it was reasonable given the lack of explicit written procedures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just “reasonable”? Hmpf 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: And within the SC’s scope under the current documents.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, although what I’m *not* saying is that this should be “written in stone” ? I’d be totally for a separation of powers inside the SC, as soon as the population allows it
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe the thing to do is fix the system rather than chiding the SC for applying as best they could, even if all ddo not concur with the details of that application.
Patroklus Murakami: it is not a severe sanction, and i would not die in a ditch over this, i just wanted to record my observation/dissent
Patroklus Murakami: i agree claude
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move on, if we could.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I’m just trying to understand the core issue about your disagreement.
Patroklus Murakami: that is the purpose behind the constituional amendment i’ve proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, under your model, the RA would apply sanctions.
Flyingroc Chung: I actually agree with Ulrika on that one, patroklus. 😉 it should be a bill instead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is sort of weird.
Flyingroc Chung: though it *may* possibly have some constitutional problems…. hm.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do that next meeting.
Patroklus Murakami: happy to debate it on the forums 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, since the SC’s role as “enforcers” would be weaker, since the RA would be able NOT to apply sanctions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok sorry Claude
Flyingroc Chung: debating on the forums is bad for my psyche.
Claude Desmoulins: A reminder.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I agree FR 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Per Kendra’s request all action items will go to seven day discussion/vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Next – Negotiations with Ulrika.
Flyingroc Chung: will we have the censure motion to vote on as well then?
Claude Desmoulins: I agree that we should seek a full and permanent settlement of all Ulrika’s claims
Claude Desmoulins: If Someone submits it.
Sudane Erato: 🙂

Claude Desmoulins: However, that can’t happen until…
Claude Desmoulins: ….Ulrika makes a public statement as to what all those claims are…
Patroklus Murakami: i neglected to submit a motion, so you have nothing to vote on – my bad
Claude Desmoulins: ….indicates what compensation or damages she seeks,,,,
Flyingroc Chung: the SC has aked her for those, I believe.
Claude Desmoulins: ,,,and expresses her willingness to negotiate a settlement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the RA allows it, you can submit it “in session”
Claude Desmoulins: Have you heard anything back?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, FR, we did
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No answers from her.
Claude Desmoulins: The ball’s in her court then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either she expects us to do her work, ie. her past claim in January demanding US$1000 for “her past work”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or well… I’m certainly not going to write reminders every other day!
Patroklus Murakami: did she give a breakdown in january of what that was for?
Sudane Erato: no
Claude Desmoulins: Given the SC’s indication that it believes itself to have sole authority over forum moderation, I’d like to table 4-24 at least until the SC finishes its own revisions to the guidelines.
Flyingroc Chung: I thought it was done?
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR, although it’s always the same problem with the SC. We need to meet to officially approve, although they are approved by email.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Approvals by email” are not a valid procedure for the SC 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’ll have to wait again until Diderot returns.
Sudane Erato: can’t the RA approve them in present form..?
Sudane Erato: dependent on the SC approving them?
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, 4-24 may possibly be unconstitutional, since forum moderation is the SC’s jurisdiction?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is feeling the same
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps after the SC releases a version 4-24 could be revisited as a recommendation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! It can also be done the other way round, ie use that bill as recommendation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the document was written by Diderot, actually, it’s *quite long* 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: But I thought you said the guidelines were essentially done already.
Flyingroc Chung: heh
Flyingroc Chung: it’s a good document, I think.
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, it’s fully written and approved, minus spell checking, it only needs formal approval by the SC
Flyingroc Chung: I suggest we wait for that to come out, then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I’d like that…
Claude Desmoulins: I do like the logging idea.
Claude Desmoulins: But let’s table.
Claude Desmoulins: Let the SC go first here.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid I need to leave -RL commitments tomorrow
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks for coming Patroklus
Flyingroc Chung: eep, afk, panicking student. brb
Sudane Erato: bye Patroklus! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah thanks for being around!
Patroklus Murakami: good day/night all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye, patroklus, take care 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll wait for FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so off the record again, my brother says he’ll be available on the 14th of May, 2 PM SL time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a Sunday ? would that be fine, Claude?
Claude Desmoulins: Mother’s Day here in US.
Flyingroc Chung: back-ish
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, welcome-backish, FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: OK 4-26
Claude Desmoulins: FR?
Flyingroc Chung: ack, sorry, lol. last day of submissions for student projects.
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Tanner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: garnet, hi there!
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor says he’s en route.
Sudane Erato: great!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, just a short comment on 4-26 ? excellent clarification!
Flyingroc Chung: Ok, 4-26
Sudane Erato: hi Garnet! 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Hello all
Flyingroc Chung: I think what I was trying there was to make clear what I assumed was true already, when I joined nburg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, welcome 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra has been very vocal in her opposition. Even submitting her own bill to do essentially the opposite thing .
Claude Desmoulins: Since her submission was after the agenda deadline it will go on the next meeting.
Flyingroc Chung: That, basically, the guild is the caretaker of the public structures of neualtenburg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the Guild has sole responsability for that
Flyingroc Chung: and so they have the, administrative duty to make modifications etc, to public structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second FR as well ? I always thought that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems that we all were “wrong” 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
Flyingroc Chung: the budget part was put there so the guild can’t go … “we;ve done all this work, now pay us”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I see no violations of the Constitution that are immediately apparent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah ok… excellent point, FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: which is fine… it seems
Claude Desmoulins: Unfortunately, I believe those who would discuss this vigorously aren’t present at the moment.
Sudane Erato: so you’ll have to discuss it via email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I see 🙁
Sudane Erato: no…
Sudane Erato: sorry
Claude Desmoulins: As an RA member I don’t want to have to vote on every texture change.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Flyingroc Chung: actually, if I understand the guild structure correctly, its supposed to be an organization of *skilled* artisans
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I think that there has been a lot of paranoia flowing in the whole concept of N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to the point thatevery single action
Claude Desmoulins: Otherwise you risk aesthetics by committee.
Flyingroc Chung: and just as we trust the SC to do the right thing in interpreting laws, we should trust the guild in judging aesthetic quality, and making good builds.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: has to be approved somehow by everybody and every branch and (who knows) every citizen
Sudane Erato: well…. I’m trying to pull together notes now on a structure for what the Guild might actually be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally second FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either the City does not trust the Guild for “taking care” of the city structures ? and there are mechanisms for doing *that*
Sudane Erato: technically, the Guild is indivuals
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or the Guild should really have a free hand to deal with these issue.
Sudane Erato: so it may not be that the Guild “does” this or that
Sudane Erato: wb! 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: sorry I crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I never thought of that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that’s why there is such a strong emphasis on the Guild*master*
Sudane Erato: there’s really no structure now…
Claude Desmoulins: But surely the guild will soon have a mechanism for decision making.
Sudane Erato: and thats what i’m hoping to put in place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully, yes
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: sure… in particular the election of the Guild master
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Sudane Erato: and the concluding of positions
Claude Desmoulins: Since we can’t vote here?
Garnet Psaltery: I only want to know who’s making houses so I can buy one for my new plot :o)
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, when I read that proposal, I was thinking about the 2nd sim 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But FR wrote it to say: “Public city structures include, but is not limited to:”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “not limited to:” is the key here 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra is iw.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right! Kendra is in!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Scope Cleaver: Gwyneth?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Scope.
Scope Cleaver: Hey how are you, where are you?
Scope Cleaver: lol
Flyingroc Chung: hey kendra
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, I hazard a guess that you’d like to comment on 4-26.
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right here, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hello Kendra, welcome 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Heya
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Got here as quick as I possibly could
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Scope
Scope Cleaver: Hi, this is a private meeting right?
Kendra Bancroft: 4-26 was which one again?
Claude Desmoulins: Non citizens may attend but not speak/
Kendra Bancroft: and wb, Garnet L)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Scope ? the public is welcome to attend, in silence 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: my guild proposal
Scope Cleaver: I was looking for “Virtual Reality Information and Conferencing” and it TPed me downstairs lol
Scope Cleaver: ok.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that Lucid’s
Scope Cleaver: Yea from his profile
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild proposal –I have nothing to discuss on –I know my vote
Flyingroc Chung: ah the VR buildin is in the NW corner of the si.
Kendra Bancroft: Im very against it
Garnet Psaltery: Neualtenburg (26, 228, 173)
Sudane Erato: NW corner of the sim
Scope Cleaver: ok thx

Kendra Bancroft: For the reason I stated in the forums
Kendra Bancroft: My Bill 4-28 actually shows how I address that same thing in a vastly different way
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “vastly” as in: the opposite
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Kendra, this is basically defining the whole purpose of the Guild in relation to the city’s public areas.
Kendra Bancroft: I know –but I dont like the ability for the Guild to change structures with no RAQ approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either the guild is just “an outsourcing group” for doing fancy work, or they are the effective “builders of the city”.
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I fully understood both proposals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor ? welcome!
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Pelanor
Kendra Bancroft: hence my bill 4-28 which has a moritorium on changes for 7 days –with RA approval
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome Pelanor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Flyingroc Chung: sorry, I have to help this student with his code remotely, but let me say we’ve probably pretty much have our respective positions defined already.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll repeat my comments of before…
Kendra Bancroft: My bill doesnt rule out changes –but it makes them more considered
Pelanor Eldrich: sorry I’m late
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm effectively it puts the power of defining what the city is in the hands of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I sadly haven’t got the RA meetings of early 2005 with me
Claude Desmoulins: And reduces the Guild to a blocker of action and a tree custodian 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But at that time, the definition of the RA role was to define “zoning”
Kendra Bancroft: But it also increases citizen participation in the process
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the Guild to do effective building
Kendra Bancroft: I disagree, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You disagree with the RA meetings of early 2005?
Kendra Bancroft: As I recall –when I was Gildemeister –RA approval was a constant on any changes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: major changes, yes
Kendra Bancroft: How did we suddenly come to change that
Kendra Bancroft: I couldnt scratch my ass without RA approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
Claude Desmoulins: I wasn’t here at the time. Why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm there was definitely much RA input
Gwyneth Llewelyn: example: how much the Biergarten or the Church could be remodelled
Kendra Bancroft: We met over the Biergarten floor and wall changes for 2 months
Flyingroc Chung: When I came in, my impression was that the guild had a free hand in alteration of city structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or if the “Tiny City” was a “legally approved building” or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s true
Claude Desmoulins: I hope the RA has better things to do with the time than debate textures and which prims to delete.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: same with the casino, it took 2 months or so to get rid of it
Kendra Bancroft: and now I’m supposed to support the Guild being able to change things as they will with no approval at all?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right

Claude Desmoulins: I think something like removing the casino would still come under RA oversight here…
Claude Desmoulins: ….under the layout provision.
Kendra Bancroft: Not according to 4-28 as writ
Claude Desmoulins: 4-28 is next meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in all fairness, my opinion here is the middle ground: I don’t want the RA to have any decision power in *aesthetics*
Kendra Bancroft: Nobody is saying they do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know.
Flyingroc Chung: 4-26 will allow you to change the structure, but not the function of the building.
Kendra Bancroft: They are voting on whether something needs to be changed
Kendra Bancroft: not what they are changed to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let me give some examples on what I find reasonable…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for instance, changing all lamps from gaslights to electric
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t find that reasonable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well… I would say it’s reasonable, if it “doesn’t significantly alter the theme and layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Kendra Bancroft: It does alter the theme considerably in my view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, blowing up the Rathaus and replacing it by a mall ? that would be strictly forbidden
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I see that the problem here is the issue of “level of detail”
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: Decorations in my view are changes the Guild can make
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much should the RA legislate… and how much leeway should the Guild have?
Kendra Bancroft: without approval
Kendra Bancroft: unless they seek money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I definitely agree on *that*, Kendra!
Kendra Bancroft: But lets say The Guild wanted to uproot the fountain and replace it
Flyingroc Chung: I think 4-26 addresses all those concerns already. The layout and theme provision.
Kendra Bancroft: Sorry –no –it requires an approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see, and I tend to agree ? or replace the fountain with something else
Kendra Bancroft: The Fountain was bought by the citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well well
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Kendra Bancroft: any structure paid for by the citizens cannot be replaced without approval
Kendra Bancroft: Ill give you an example
Kendra Bancroft: I hire a contractor to do my kitchen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That also seems quite reasonable, yes
Kendra Bancroft: Its paid for
Kendra Bancroft: That contractor does not have the right to come back and redo my kitchen because they gort a better idea
Kendra Bancroft: unless I okay that
Kendra Bancroft: The Rathaus for example –paid for by the citizens
Kendra Bancroft: it is no longer a gUild entity
Claude Desmoulins: But the Guild is more than the city contractor., isn’t it?
Kendra Bancroft: But we okayed this Rathaus
Kendra Bancroft: We didnt okay a different Rathaus
Sudane Erato: the city had no idea what kind of Rathaus you would build
Claude Desmoulins: Didn’t the RA OK a Rathaus and left to the Guild the details thereof?
Sudane Erato: as to its look
Kendra Bancroft: In my Bill 4-28 –they would have
Kendra Bancroft: and in fact I did show sjetches
Pelanor Eldrich: I think the guild is city contractor, city manager, immigration, IRS, treasury and chamber of commerce
Sudane Erato: sorry… don’t remember… 🙁
Flyingroc Chung: why not make the guild the executive branch 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just curious why the change now? As Gildemeister I was never given that luxury to change as I will
Claude Desmoulins: I can see the payment argument. SInce the RA at one point approved the paymentfor a building they’d need to approve the depreciation of that investment.
Claude Desmoulins: But why everything?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, assume that the RA pays for everything
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which will, for instance, happen in the 2nd sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: what then?
Claude Desmoulins: Hmmm.
Sudane Erato: sorry… I’ll be back
Kendra Bancroft: Then the matter is still in play –as I’m sure the Guild would like to be paid for changes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Kendra Bancroft: The example of the walls being changed for example
Kendra Bancroft: why?
Claude Desmoulins: If the Guild wishes payment it’s in the hands of the RA anyway.
Kendra Bancroft: They were clearly tagged as being my creation
Flyingroc Chung: Again, let me argue that the guild, being skilled artisans are the best equipped to decide on aesthetics, on what stuctures need to be replaced, or otherwise modified.
Kendra Bancroft: There was noreason for the Guild to just change them
Yogeswari Padar: hi!
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll read the bill and kinda jumped in halfway, but I remember suggesting that the guild have it’s own funds, controled by GM separate from City Treasury
Yogeswari Padar: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Pelanor…. yes 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Thats the business of the Guild to raise their own treasury
Kendra Bancroft: we vote to give them money
Kendra Bancroft: we don’t need to tell them how to handle there money
Claude Desmoulins: But if you require approval for all changes isn’t that moot.
Kendra Bancroft: But the matter of the walls being replaced –it’s a violation of the Constitution
Pelanor Eldrich: Wait…there’s City Money, and there’s Guild Money is what I’m saying. The Guild $ is used to pay city artisans for contracted work.
Kendra Bancroft: if they had been required to get approval for the change then the matter could have been discussed
Claude Desmoulins: Why giive it to the guild if they don’t have the authority to spend it w/o RA
Kendra Bancroft: Your bill, FR is just a way to reverse NL 3-10
Kendra Bancroft: and I think NL 3-10 needs to be stronger
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is always a problem in timings and dealing with emergencies.
Pelanor Eldrich: The GM can do whatever with Guild $
Claude Desmoulins: Not if 4-28 passes.
Kendra Bancroft: There was no emergency –Are we giving up the ability to declare an emergency to The Guild?
Pelanor Eldrich: The GM has fiduciary obligations with City Treasury funds
Flyingroc Chung: My bill is how I read NL 3-10 to be, frankly.
Kendra Bancroft: Your bill as you even stated is an attempt to delete NL 3-10, FR
Claude Desmoulins: I would prefer clarify.
Kendra Bancroft: It totally supercedes it and destroys it’s intent
Flyingroc Chung: replace NL 3-10, as a matter of practicality. I think it’s really more of a clarification.
Kendra Bancroft: That’s not a clarification
Claude Desmoulins: If we are unwilling to give the Guild some autonomy, why have them, except as a civic work force?
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW do you have quorum?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, but we’re voting everything seven day.
Kendra Bancroft: They already have enough autonomy –I don’t see them using it
Kendra Bancroft: Nobody ever accused my administration of the same Guild as being simply a workforce
Kendra Bancroft: People thought I had too much power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes.
Kendra Bancroft: Because I knew how to use it
Claude Desmoulins: The power to change decorations?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, more than decorations were changed.
Kendra Bancroft: Look what I managed to accomplish as Gildemeister!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I agree that some things were never changed.
Kendra Bancroft: a lot more3 than decorations
Kendra Bancroft: Is the new GM suddenly left with less power that I seemed to weild with a hand that some thought to strong?
Kendra Bancroft: No. She has the same exact powers
Kendra Bancroft: Let me put it another way
Kendra Bancroft: Make these changes –and now imagine that I’m the Gildemeister
Kendra Bancroft: scary ain’t it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The tricky bit on this 4-26
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is basically: “The Guild is authorized to make alterations, including replacement of all public city structures”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s tricky.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And: “While the Guild may commence with projects before RA approval for a budget, it should be cognizant that a budget for the project may not be approved.”
Kendra Bancroft: Exactly
Kendra Bancroft: I’d have a field day with that
Claude Desmoulins: How do we prevent RA micromanagement then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Guild can opt to work for free and change whatever they want.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s exactly the problem here, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only way out is ? like it’s done in RL.
Kendra Bancroft: How is a 7 day moritorium micromanagement?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The guild submits a proposal with *detailed* planning
Kendra Bancroft: It allows for change but offers discretion
Claude Desmoulins: I see your point, but neither do I want the RA approving every little thing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, you do it like in RL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Detailed planning by the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And RA approves it “overall”
Kendra Bancroft: Then add a rider that work purchased by the City cannot be changed without RA approval
Kendra Bancroft: then I’d be fine
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s wait on FR to see if he’ll accept that as a friendly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the whole point here for me is just to avoid the RA’s micromanagement, and, contrarywise, impede the RA to make aesthetical considerations.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d agree with that.
Kendra Bancroft: I just want to be able to impede un-needed changes
Pelanor Eldrich: Kendra, you’d make one *hot* WWI Prussian officer…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Flyingroc Chung: uh, sorry, let me read up
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Thanks, pel
Claude Desmoulins: FR, Kendra has offered an amendment, will you take it as a friendly – requiring RA approval of changes to structures that had been paid for with city funds.
Pelanor Eldrich: We are in a bit of a pickelhaube here…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, on the long term, since I expect that *all* public structures get funds from the RA…
Flyingroc Chung: I think that’s reasonable
Flyingroc Chung: sure
Kendra Bancroft: May I explain my motivation
Kendra Bancroft: perhaps that would help
Kendra Bancroft: I dont want to see a Gildemeister shut down competition from Guild members –and I don’t want artisans working for free
Kendra Bancroft: Ig the Gilde gets in the habit of changing things we are back where we started
Claude Desmoulins: That should be their choice. (to work for free)
Claude Desmoulins: If they want to.
Kendra Bancroft: with eventually disgruntled workers coming back and saying they suddenly want the stuff back they did for free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, on a previous term, the RA had an agreement with the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that forthcoming changes on public space would always been paid
Kendra Bancroft: and I see this measure as making that slip away
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why we’re emphasizing documentation of our agreements.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, definitely 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: by forcing RA approval we make sure the Gildemeister pays their members
Pelanor Eldrich: Didn’t we pass a city infrastrucuture protecting city IP?
Kendra Bancroft: No –But I’ve proposed one
Claude Desmoulins: I’m ok with the amendment. as a change to a paid for building alters the value of a city fixed asset.
Kendra Bancroft: for next weeks meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I have never thought that, Claude! Good point!
Kendra Bancroft: Thank you, Claude –this will ensure that the Guild members will actually seek payment
Object: Sit here.
Object: Sit here.
Sudane Erato: Yogeswari is a long time citizen…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, you *could* approve the change to 4-26 now and vote on it, there is a quorum 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I just think it’s very easy in SL for artists to gip themselves
Sudane Erato: haven’t seen her for awhile
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yoge! namaste!
Yogeswari Padar: namaste!
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone want to do that?
Yogeswari Padar: good to see you all!
Claude Desmoulins: Greetings
Flyingroc Chung: I could do it, if the students stop pestering me, brb, again
Pelanor Eldrich: I was thinking of 4-18
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think 4-18 went far enough –hence my new bill
Pelanor Eldrich: Let’s say we pay the Guild for work, does the RA decide how the funds are distributed amongst guild members?
Kendra Bancroft: No
Claude Desmoulins: That requires multiple copies, like Kendra’s repository idea.
Claude Desmoulins: (4-18)
Kendra Bancroft: That’s the Guild’s business
Pelanor Eldrich: good
Claude Desmoulins: Does anyone not want to vote on 4-26?
Kendra Bancroft: we cant tell them how to disburss their own funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, I second Kendra on that.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-26 as amended?
Pelanor Eldrich: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For all we know, the Guild treasurer can deposit all the funds on their Ginko account and use slave labour to build the city 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s the way I like it.
Kendra Bancroft: Then the Gildemeister would be voted out I would imagine –fairly quickly
Claude Desmoulins: Aye, that is
Kendra Bancroft: So the amndment to be clear is that the Guild may not change properties purchased by the City –I have that right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Kendra, hehe. What I naturally meant is that the agreements between RA and Guild are as two entities, not a one-on-one relationship, which would violate the whole purpose of *having* a Guild.
Claude Desmoulins: without RA approval.
Kendra Bancroft: not without approval
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s how I always saw it Gywn and Kendra…
Claude Desmoulins: from the RA, since they represent the people who own the building, but it applies only to things the city paid for.
Kendra Bancroft: Will we still be voting on 4-28 regarding the moritorium and the comeptition bids?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next week perhaps?
Claude Desmoulins: Unless you withdraw it it will be onthe agenda at the next meeting.
Kendra Bancroft: Yes next week
Kendra Bancroft: But I am in earnest about the ability of Guild members being able to be chosen for bids
Kendra Bancroft: so that a Gildemeister can’t just lock them out
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe that’s a matter of how the guild functions.
Pelanor Eldrich: I had a Guild right of first refusal on city infrastructure contracts. In my forum posting, the GM makes the bid and does the division of labor and pay amongst artisans.
Claude Desmoulins: It doesn’t have to be autocratic.
Kendra Bancroft: That is how it has been yes
Flyingroc Chung: uh is it too late for me to vote on 4-26? lol
Claude Desmoulins: It isn’t
Flyingroc Chung: then I vote yes.
Kendra Bancroft: But now the RA is giving the Gildemeister a power it didn’t have
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember the amendment on 4-26, FR 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How?
Flyingroc Chung: yes, I’m aware.
Kendra Bancroft: If we are giving the Guild power to change anything –then the Gildemeister –one person –has the right to change anything unless the Guild votes them out
Kendra Bancroft: You are in essence giving one person the ability to change things as they will
Claude Desmoulins: Only on donated objects on public land.
Kendra Bancroft: and I ask you again -If I was still Gildemeister –would you want ME to have that power?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes. Actually, at one point, there should be another petition to the RA to force the guild to adopt a set of procedures that are public…
Kendra Bancroft: That is why I wanted the amendmant –and since it is in there –I will vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ick..keep the guild closed. You can always impeach the GM, no?
Kendra Bancroft: But I think if we do this we also need 4-28
Claude Desmoulins: Next meeting, Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: The Guildmeister can be voted out by a 2.3 majority of the Guild meisters
Claude Desmoulins: Ergo, if the GM freezes out other artisans, the other masters can remove him/her
Kendra Bancroft: But I would not be able to vote for example –because I sit in the RA
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –it would be real bad business practice for a GM to do that
Claude Desmoulins: Is that the fault of the structure?
Kendra Bancroft: No it’s the strength of it
Claude Desmoulins: Pel, your vote on 4-26?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m in the RA now/
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, you’re replacing Logan.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Pek isn;t an RA member Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Kendra Bancroft: He did?
Kendra Bancroft: Then I need to be able to replace Eugene and Seldon
Claude Desmoulins: Seldon replaced Eugene.
Kendra Bancroft: ahhh
Kendra Bancroft: Then I need to replace Seldon
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, do you want to explain the reasoning here?
Flyingroc Chung: I think it’s unclear whether seldon’s seat is vacant…
Kendra Bancroft: Cid is next in line according to the election results –but I never see him
Claude Desmoulins: He has made no public statement of resignation.
Kendra Bancroft: He has missed far more than two consecutives
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll vote Aye
Claude Desmoulins: -Seldon
Claude Desmoulins: IS that in the procedures. I thought it was only a proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s not a procedure et –I’m just saying –he is putting the SDF at a distinct disadvantage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, i was just reading Dianne’s opinion
Claude Desmoulins: Yes he is, I’d encourage you to seek him out and suggest that he make his intentions regarding the RA seat public.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll do that
Claude Desmoulins: Next 4-27
Claude Desmoulins: Ra has to approve the deletion and non replacement of a public build.
Claude Desmoulins: discussion?
Kendra Bancroft: This gets a big aye from me
Kendra Bancroft: But we need to define “Build”
Kendra Bancroft: some people confuse Build” with Building
Claude Desmoulins: It says city building.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can I replace the Kirche with a 1m2 wooden cube prim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Flyingroc Chung: not under 4-26 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I would say “Build” refers to anything built
Kendra Bancroft: streetlights for examples are “builds”
Claude Desmoulins: Arguably any such building deletion and non replacement would constitute a layout change under 4-26
Flyingroc Chung: how about public structures?
Flyingroc Chung: “public structures”
Flyingroc Chung: instead of buildings
Claude Desmoulins: Do we really want the RA voting on the removal of a streetlamp?
Kendra Bancroft: not a streetlamp no –but what if the decision became replace all streetlamps with modern streetlamps
Flyingroc Chung: hm… yeah, building might be the right granularity here
Claude Desmoulins: Then this wouldn’t apply anyway.
Flyingroc Chung: deleting all streetlamps would fall under a change of layout
Flyingroc Chung: deleting all streetlamps would fall under a change of layout
Claude Desmoulins: Replacement isn’t cpvered by 4-27
Claude Desmoulins: *covered
Kendra Bancroft: What if the decision was to dlete the clocktower?
Pelanor Eldrich: layout defined as multiple replicated freestanding structures within the city
Claude Desmoulins: I’d say the tower is a building. The SC could referee that dispute.
Pelanor Eldrich: a tower is a building
Pelanor Eldrich: you could define it using m2 footprint
Kendra Bancroft: I’m fine with 4-27
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or # of prims
Pelanor Eldrich: or volume
Claude Desmoulins: I like the m2 idea
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I also prefer some leeway…
Claude Desmoulins: Or we could leave it as is.
Kendra Bancroft: Because unlike most men –I don’t think sie matters
Kendra Bancroft: size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Kendra …. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just typing the same 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, leave it as it is.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s fine as is
Pelanor Eldrich: Is that a pickel on your haube or are you just glad to see me?
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say any real debacle is for the SC to consider or mediate between the RA and Guild
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next/
Claude Desmoulins: 4-25
Flyingroc Chung: uh oh
Kendra Bancroft: uh oh indeed
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, is the sc going to nerf this out of the box?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: I have about 20 mionutes so I’m being direct.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have discussed it briefly
Flyingroc Chung: May I explain my reasoning for this?
Pelanor Eldrich: nerf=vote down?
Claude Desmoulins: yes – veto/annul/ etc.
Flyingroc Chung: First, the RA has the authority to impose term limits, as per article V, Section I
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I guess that Ulrika’s arguments, no matter why she made them, are quite strong in this case (also, the other two SC members had serious doubts about this proposal)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I personally don’t dislike it, but then again, it’s just one vote in three 😉
Flyingroc Chung: oh, I havent seen ulrika’s arguments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes FR ? term limits for the *Dean*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are already term limits for the Dean, this would just clarify them as well
Flyingroc Chung: “Officials in the Government are elected for a period of time according to the general principles of democratic rotativity to ensure proper representativity in a changing society, whose duration will be fixed by the RA by passing appropriate laws.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, technically, the Dean falls under that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As does the Guildmaster.
Flyingroc Chung: and so do chairs and professors? no?
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t all government officials?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well… that’s a problem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that you’d apply the same reasoning to Guild members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you’d only be a member of the Guild for a period of time
Kendra Bancroft: Guild members arent Government Officials
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not? They can place the guildmaster in power!
Pelanor Eldrich: The Guild is a special case, open to all but only mentions role of GM. What happens in Guildhall stays in Guildhall.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, pelanor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the SC is different, eh? 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Citizens can place RA members in power
Kendra Bancroft: are they Officials?
Claude Desmoulins: If members of the SC aren’t govt officials why have the RA vote of confidence?
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is The Fight Club
Pelanor Eldrich: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as said ? I don’t see anything wrong in the *concept* except that it violates the Constitution 😉
Claude Desmoulins: The notion of judicial persons having terms of office is not unheard of.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d suggest to change the Constitution first 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I would prefer the RA has a vote of No-Confidence? –but I’m mean
Pelanor Eldrich: I was wondering about that…
Claude Desmoulins: To explicitly make SC members government officials?
Flyingroc Chung: So, hm, we need some sort of clarification for V, I then, regarding which officials V, I refers to.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way would be clearer, I think. Because the SC is supposed not to have any “political ties”
Pelanor Eldrich: Chair/Professor is tenured for life without this right?
Kendra Bancroft: which is why they are not elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This bill would introduce the concept that in some terms, the RA would be able to vote out a SC member they disliked
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They are, yes, Pelanor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Deliberately so.
Kendra Bancroft: Look I’ll be honest –this bill will be getting a NO vote from me

Claude Desmoulins: It makes the VOC not a one shot thing. THe RA could still not force someone on to SC just off , potentially.
Flyingroc Chung: Ok, well then I move the RA seeks clarification for V, 1 regarding which officials the RA can set term limits for, and also move to table 4-25 until the SC has made such a clarification.
Kendra Bancroft: Dean should have limits 0–but I think that’s an internal SC matter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Dean *has* limits
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with that. FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me quote from the Constitution…
Kendra Bancroft: I know they do, Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just saying my only concern is already covered
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elections for branches and factions are staggered equally throughout the term and held in the following order: Artisanal branch, Philosophic branch, factions, and Representative branch.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, if the SC *fails* to comply with that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: by NOT electing a new Dean every term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they should be impeached
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for violating the Constitution 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: But could a dean serve multiple consecutive trerms?
Kendra Bancroft: Then they are in violation of the Constitution and the whole lot should be impeached for transgression
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is not defined, Claude, but that would make sense.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra, right so
Claude Desmoulins: What’s to constitutionallyu prevent them from re-electing the same dean in perpetuity?
Pelanor Eldrich: Did you guys ever opine on block SC impeachments?
Kendra Bancroft: A Gildemeister can serve multiple terms –Lord knows I did
Kendra Bancroft: why can’t a Dean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, technically, Pelanor, the answer is: nothing prevents that 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: well it says “principles of democratic rotativity” but it also says the RA should set term limits…. it’s all confusing, I really want a statement from the SC.
Pelanor Eldrich: Or block branch impeachments?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try to explain my reasoning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That clause applies to all Government officials *who have a term*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the RA sets the terms
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Constitution even says that the elections for the elected officials have to be done in a certain order.
Kendra Bancroft: I dont want SC members voted in on populist reasons
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, SC members or Guild members are *not* elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Kendra
Claude Desmoulins: But the rotativity clause (that wor;s awkward) means that all the terms are the same as the RA tem, just staggered.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: *word’s
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the *length* of the term is defined by the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It used to be 4 months, now 6 months
Flyingroc Chung: I see, I think I parsed that sentence wrongly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only ambiguity I agree on is what are “Government officials”

Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is the Treasurer a Government Official?
Kendra Bancroft: Petty Beurocrat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the Head of the Chamber of Commerce a Government official?
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to second Kendra on that.
Pelanor Eldrich: Certainly not
Kendra Bancroft: No CoC head is a Guild appointment –as is Treasurer
Claude Desmoulins: Does term mean for those who are not voted on in some way?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: i.e. my current interpretation is that all Government officials are the ones that get *elected* ? either by the citizens, or by their peers
Claude Desmoulins: *mean anything
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (peers in Gwyn’s parlance: the members of their branch 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: Bu SC members elect new Sc members, Gwyn. What about that?
Pelanor Eldrich: I was appointed…
Pelanor Eldrich: aha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they APPOINT
Kendra Bancroft: CoC head or Trasurer could be termed Guild Officials –but they have no say in Government per se
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And below that, we even have the Utter Bureaucrats ? RA/SC Archivist, etc
Flyingroc Chung: but SC chairs do…
Flyingroc Chung: they hae a say in government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: SC chairs don’t get “elected”
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m in the RA and was appointed….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Dean nominates them 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: well, factions are elected in the RA
Kendra Bancroft: But your seat was elected, Pel
Sudane Erato: I’m sorry folks,,, I now must go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you’re just a seat 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: You were selected by the rest of the faction Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A seat attachment hehe
Sudane Erato: I’ll see you all soon 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: bye sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you Sudane, take care!
Claude Desmoulins: Bye Sudane
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: ciao, Sudane
Yogeswari Padar: bye sudane
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, my seat was elected and my ass was appointed…got it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yep 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ciao
Kendra Bancroft: My head was appointed –see it’s very pointed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Kendra!!
Pelanor Eldrich: Having Kendra’s head up your ass looks very painful.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are good points on 4-25… for instance:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “If at any time the SC does not have any voting members to nominate a citizen into the SC, the RA may, by a majority vote, nominate and appoint (with a vote of confidence by the Guild) one citizen to be a member of the SC.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would prevent a technical deadlock
Gwyneth Llewelyn: when the SC is impeached in block
Claude Desmoulins: We need an answer to that question.
Flyingroc Chung: or we could pass a bill and see if the Sc vetoes it 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and talk about stuff.
Flyingroc Chung: ooh stuff. I like that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we might have to, or at least place it on hold until an amendment on what is a “governmental official” is passed
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe fewer provocative actions are better at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could do a suggestion, which is that “votes of confidence” would be able to be pased, say, yearly
Flyingroc Chung: yes, I favor tabling it for now, actually.
Pelanor Eldrich: I think official is in the constitution as you say Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: I could go for that.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m likely to reamain NO on this one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And an SC member without a vote of confidence would not be able to vote in the SC 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But would not be “removed”. Just “dormant”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get a sense of where the SC is on this.
Kendra Bancroft: I could go with the NO CONFIDENCE clause
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, that one needs clarification as well (I know, Claude, it’s also on the neverending list of things the SC has to talk about)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As the Constituition stands, SC members don’t serve for “terms” since they’re not elected.
Pelanor Eldrich: what happened on 4-24?
Kendra Bancroft: The problem I find is that soon a suitable amount of SC candidates would dissappear
Claude Desmoulins: Tabled until the SC puts out its moderation guidelines
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, kendra 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: God knows how difficult it was to get 5 members in the SC, and one sadly left 😛
Flyingroc Chung: well, you only need the voting ones
Kendra Bancroft: YOu should make me an SC member
Pelanor Eldrich: Actually, maybe it’s fairly moot. Gywn’s the only one to last more than a year
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You will, as soon as you’re not an RA member hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean because I’m exceptional

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 12, 2006

Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: First….
Claude Desmoulins: 4-31
Claude Desmoulins: Any Discussion?
Kendra Bancroft: I still think it’s a Guild matter
Pelanor Eldrich: but….that not the old constitution vision….
Kendra Bancroft: 4-31 is a no brainer
Kendra Bancroft: I vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane do we need a cutoff date for claims?
Sudane Erato: well…. yes
Kendra Bancroft: I’d end it with the end of the Parade of Homes
Sudane Erato: but i think its not a big issue
Claude Desmoulins: How about the following amendment,,,
Sudane Erato: sure.. that makes sense
Claude Desmoulins: …claims must be filed with the GM no later than May 31,
Claude Desmoulins: That gives people 2 weeks.
Pelanor Eldrich: I vote Aye
Kendra Bancroft: After that –I’m turning into a month long Renn Faire
Claude Desmoulins: on the bill or amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m fine with the existing bill.
Pelanor Eldrich: Do we have quorum?
Claude Desmoulins: What about the claim deadline. We need to be able to close the books on this at some point.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: No –we don’t seem to
Claude Desmoulins: You, me , Pel is 3
Kendra Bancroft: Parade of Homes ends on the 31st
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, Aye
Kendra Bancroft: Make the claims end on JUne 15
Sudane Erato: thats fine too
Claude Desmoulins: Why June 15, Not picky, just curious?
Kendra Bancroft: Give people 2 weeks to get their shit together
Sudane Erato: the date is npot important…
Claude Desmoulins: I’m ok w/ June 15.
Pelanor Eldrich: ditto
Sudane Erato: just so there is one
Kendra Bancroft: It’s also a month from now
Claude Desmoulins: OK Amended to set a claim deadline of June 15.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill?
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Sudane Erato: yay… ome bill!
Sudane Erato: one
Claude Desmoulins: Now 4-28. I have some things I’d like to look at here.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m amenable to tweaks
Claude Desmoulins: First. How about a longer moratorium (10 or 14 days) w/o a renewal?
Kendra Bancroft: I say 7 days is plenty
Claude Desmoulins: But the renewal can make it 14.
Kendra Bancroft: But I think option for renewal s needed
Claude Desmoulins: Why?
Kendra Bancroft: People out of town
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m scared it’ll be continually renewed forever, thereby freezing the build.
Sudane Erato: does this refer to ANY objects?
Sudane Erato: trees, roads, lampposts?
Claude Desmoulins: What I’d like to avoid is thinking we could have a vote and then having someone trigger the renewal at the last moment.
Kendra Bancroft: good point
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t there a max of one renewal.
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s make it 10 days –no renewal then
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Now…
Claude Desmoulins: I have an issue with the RA voting directly on different build proposals.
Kendra Bancroft: How about only if the RA is contracting for the build
Claude Desmoulins: Could the RA ratify or not ratify a Guild decision between proposals, like we did with the sim design process?
Kendra Bancroft: I’m okay with the RA doing a ratify of a Guild decision
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to apply the whole bill only to paid for items, personally.
Claude Desmoulins: This would do several things.
Claude Desmoulins: 1) It would give an incentive for artisans to seek payment, with payment comes protection.
Pelanor Eldrich: It could even by $L1
Pelanor Eldrich: *be
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: 2) It makes this a clarification of NL 4-20 rather than a rewrite by specifying the procedure for modding city owned builds.
Salzie Sachertorte has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Sure. Pel.
Salzie Sachertorte: hi
Sudane Erato: hi Salzie!
Pelanor Eldrich: hi Salzie!
Claude Desmoulins: If you wanted something previously donated to be covered, introduce a bill to purchase it from the creator.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m okay with both those, Claude –and I’m glad you see the intent of the bill
Claude Desmoulins: Let
Claude Desmoulins: Also with the ratification vote by RA of a guild choice?
Kendra Bancroft: yep
Claude Desmoulins: OK The amendment as it now stands…
Claude Desmoulins: 1) bill only applies to purchased builds 2) If multiple proposals – Guild chooses and RA votes up or down to ratify that choice 3) 10 day moratorium no renewals.
Neualtenburg Stein – Oktoberfest 2004: Neualtenburg Animated Stein
Neualtenburg Stein – Oktoberfest 2004: Commands: drink, help
Claude Desmoulins: Is that right?
Kendra Bancroft: yeas –That’s acceptab;e to me
Kendra Bancroft: It keeps to the intent
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: other discussion on the bill?

Pelanor Eldrich: It’d be nice, for me, to have the build previously zoned as historic, but I can waive that.
Claude Desmoulins: Which build?
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a Guild decision I would think
Claude Desmoulins: Probably.
Kendra Bancroft: perhaps the CoC could afix a historic plaque after a vote by the Guild?
Pelanor Eldrich: Let’s pass it, we can tweak later…
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill.
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: My first bill passed!
Kendra Bancroft: woohooo!
Claude Desmoulins: OK The nesxt one is actually 4-32.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think I know of 4-32
Pelanor Eldrich: Defence
Kendra Bancroft: oh
Claude Desmoulins: First thing is that Defence of the Realm is no good, we have no monarch 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Get rid of the pre-emptive clause
Claude Desmoulins: Comments on the bill.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: We have a schloss…heh…what the official name of our sim?
Claude Desmoulins: I would have agreed with you until a certain mass deleton. Now I’m not sure.
Claude Desmoulins: If we pull the pre emptive clause…
Claude Desmoulins: …Are you ready for some serious cleanups?
Kendra Bancroft: The mass deletion occured from the Guild –
Pelanor Eldrich: “Democratic City-State? of Neualtenburg”
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Kendra Bancroft: Socialist Republic of Neualtenburg 😛
Sudane Erato: Are we a democracy?
Kendra Bancroft: We are a Democratic Republic
Pelanor Eldrich: Fascists Neo-
Pelanor Eldrich: Fascist Neo-Bavarian? Oligarchy of Neualtenburg?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It”s turning into that, Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t the official title Democratic Republic on Neualtenburg?
Claude Desmoulins: *of
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –it is Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, that works, we’re a republic…defence of the republic
Claude Desmoulins: OK, that little problem solved.
Kendra Bancroft: I still say gut the pre-emptive clause
Claude Desmoulins: Suppose someone announces they intend to nuke the sim. Do we let them?
Kendra Bancroft: A smart terrorist wouldnt announce
Claude Desmoulins: Suppose we get a not so smart adversary. Odder things have happened.
Sudane Erato: i think that despite what we pass here…
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll grant you it’s not likely.
Kendra Bancroft: Then make a the threat a crime
Sudane Erato: if someone detects a credible threat to the sim from a griefer
Sudane Erato: they will try to prevent it
Pelanor Eldrich: Does the preamble even matter, the actual bill is after the “———-“?
Claude Desmoulins: So could we alter …
Kendra Bancroft: It just smells awfully Minority Report to me
Sudane Erato: I never saw it
Pelanor Eldrich: Ya know, an SDF member wrote this bill…. 🙂 (Couldn’t help it)
Claude Desmoulins: “if they have reasonable cause…intent on griefing” to “if they threaten to grief”?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: They convict criminals that they believe may committ a crime

Kendra Bancroft: I don’t like it a whit
Kendra Bancroft: and I will vote No if it stays
Claude Desmoulins: However, the ban is temporary (until the next SC mtg)
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a bad move and a bad message
Claude Desmoulins: Someone mentioned the idea of credible threat. What about that?
Kendra Bancroft: define credible
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I thought that was for the SC to do.
Kendra Bancroft: My point is –either Sudane or I could nuke the City –and Sudane could do even worse
Kendra Bancroft: we are both threats\
Sudane Erato: yes!
Kendra Bancroft: Should someone decide to claim we are
Claude Desmoulins: So, Kendra your position is that it’s impossible to prevent griefing before the fact?
Pelanor Eldrich: I personally have no problem banning any foreigner for a week if we have a possible threat. That’s why they check my passport at the border.
Kendra Bancroft: My point is until someone griefs or themselves threaten to grief –its a moot point
Claude Desmoulins: OK, what about the change I suggested.
Kendra Bancroft: You can’t punish someone because you believe they are a threat
Kendra Bancroft: Make threatening the Republic a crime
Kendra Bancroft: and remove the pre-emptive clause
Pelanor Eldrich: I can’t punish a foreigner anyway…I can keep them out for a week though.
Claude Desmoulins: change it to “if they are griefing or threaten to grief”
Kendra Bancroft: Right, Claude –but it cannot be –they present a threat
Claude Desmoulins: It seems reasonable to exclude someone temporarily if they make a threat.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that what I said?
Kendra Bancroft: No –just being clear
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s like getting “randomly searched” at the airport.
Kendra Bancroft: or the Subway
Claude Desmoulins: How would you reword it, then?
Kendra Bancroft: exactly as I said –if they grief or make a spoken threat to grief
Pelanor Eldrich: Or have a history of griefing?
Kendra Bancroft: No
Claude Desmoulins: How about recorded instead of spoken (covers email, IM, forums, etc.)
Kendra Bancroft: fine –I meant spoken in the boadest sense
Kendra Bancroft: broadest
Pelanor Eldrich: How do we keep out Plasticus Duckus if he doesn’t specfically threaten our sim?
Claude Desmoulins: Iffy, shall we ban eveyone who has ever griefed anywhere? By whose definition?
Kendra Bancroft: No, Pel
Kendra Bancroft: we can’t presume guilt
Claude Desmoulins: I’m fine with make a recorded threat to grief.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Sure ok, something’s better than nothing…I like it a little more proactive, but it’s the guildmaster who should weigh in as she has to clean up the mess… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What about PD?, for example.
Claude Desmoulins: I guess if we felt threatened by him he’d already be banned. He’s not.
Kendra Bancroft: Look iof PD made even one simple threat to N’burg –I’d ban with no question
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s it for me…If an avatar has broken LL ToS or been a real PITA, do we automatically open wide our doors and say, “buy a home”?
Claude Desmoulins: Not by the second part of the bill.
Kendra Bancroft: But its a fine line between banning him –or banning Kevn for example for just being silly
Claude Desmoulins: SC may deny citizenship to those whom they believe will not uphold the const.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m silly too…
Salzie Sachertorte: I think you have to be recommended by a citizen or two to buy land
Claude Desmoulins: That’s been deprecated.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right..ok on citizenship….I worry about the PD case.
Claude Desmoulins: The most current constitution is on the wiki,
Kendra Bancroft: Why did the SC let Aliasi get away with thumbing her nose at the Government for 2 months?
Claude Desmoulins: So the citizenship restiction could keep PD from buying a house.
Salzie Sachertorte: ah, well enforce it
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t know. Ask them.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Salzie Sachertorte: PD is?
Kendra Bancroft: Plastic Duck –a known griefer from w-hat
Pelanor Eldrich: Aliasi broke no laws.
Salzie Sachertorte: ah – nice to meet you Kendra btw
Kendra Bancroft: I beg to differ
Kendra Bancroft: and you, Salzie –love your gypsy wagon
Pelanor Eldrich: Bring it to the SC. BTW how do I wear the lederhosen?
Kendra Bancroft: use talcum powder
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks!
Salzie Sachertorte: I love your wagon, might buy one
Kendra Bancroft: Just drag the items to your avaar, pel
Pelanor Eldrich: Thx…
Claude Desmoulins: I’m actually with Kendra here. Let’s not ban without specific cause.
Kendra Bancroft: there should be two different shirts
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the “recorded threat amendment”…
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah…ok, we can make it more facist later… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: 😛
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the bill?
Kendra Bancroft: I want my walls back
Pelanor Eldrich: Get GM opinion on defence…she has to clean up the grief if we underscreen.
Kendra Bancroft: Dianne’s have a nasty alpha channel flashing going on
Claude Desmoulins: That’s Guild.
Pelanor Eldrich: We should have a guild meeting soon.
Pelanor Eldrich: Much to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not sure Sudane is going to return.
Salzie Sachertorte: brb
Kendra Bancroft: Call a meeting, pel –any Guild member can call a meeting
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll IM her or email her about that…yeah, ok…BTW you can too.
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion on the bill as amended?
Pelanor Eldrich: nope
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK. I had really hoped to have Sudane here for the discussion of 4-30.
Kendra Bancroft: should we table it?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: To me it’s the most important one of the night
Pelanor Eldrich: I have to reread all the estate/mgr stuff…
Claude Desmoulins: Also we want to look at Salzie’s draft job description.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t want it given short shrift
Claude Desmoulins: We may want to do a comprehensive solution.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s the biggest SL problem to truly implementing a democratic gov’t in SL.
Claude Desmoulins: Neither your bill or Salzie’s description addresses two big issues.
Claude Desmoulins: 1) What happens if the owner is incapacitated in RL?
Kendra Bancroft: technically it could all become a moot point when the tools arrive
Claude Desmoulins: 2) What happens if the owner absconds with the sim or some such thing?
Pelanor Eldrich: We need something in place until that happens with havoc 8
Claude Desmoulins: We can only hope it will be moot.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: which is why I want the bill implemented
Claude Desmoulins: And we don’t know when the tools will arrive.
Kendra Bancroft: and the only change Im in favor of is having it staete that it’s owner only –and the Guild can pick the managers and owner
Pelanor Eldrich: *if*, it could be a Godot.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and ask Sudane to weigh in officially.
Claude Desmoulins: I was being optimistic.
Kendra Bancroft: Isnt that a conflict of interest?
Claude Desmoulins: Also we then will have time to look at the job desc.
Claude Desmoulins: How so?
Pelanor Eldrich: She’s not voting on it, just providing an opinion.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. How would this actually work if it passed sort of thing/
Claude Desmoulins: She at least deserves input.
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say if it passed it would be implemented during the next election cycle
Claude Desmoulins: Let
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table.
Claude Desmoulins: That would certainly help the implementation issues.
Pelanor Eldrich: This is the biggest issue around until the tools come out. It’s the *big* piece the consitution didn’t address.
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever we do, let’s make sure we consider it carefully and do it right.
Kendra Bancroft: The constitution was written for a maingrid sim
Pelanor Eldrich: That explains it.
Claude Desmoulins: Now the procedure change. PLEASE read the notes.
Kendra Bancroft: Well that;s your call Leader –but I have no problems with it
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with it.
Kendra Bancroft: really though as LRA it’s your call, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: I just want us to have the option if we need it.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor..
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing.
Kendra Bancroft: That’s truly scary, pel
chodie Nosferatu: hi
Claude Desmoulins: Artisan protection.
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s why we need the closed session… 🙂
chodie Nosferatu: is this a public meeting?
Claude Desmoulins: Chodie. Non citizens can’t speak but may observe.
chodie Nosferatu: ok n/p
Claude Desmoulins: I can’t vote for this as is.
Kendra Bancroft: what would you change, Claude?
Pelanor Eldrich: ditto
Claude Desmoulins: If it’s meant to create local IP law…
Kendra Bancroft: Of course it’s meant to create local IP law –how is that a problem though?
Claude Desmoulins: It needs to be much more detailed. I have a problem that there’s no fair use , I have a problem that cimilarity of function can alone be cause for violation.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to see IP handled using the LL ToS and specfic LL guidelines in the forum re: texture theft.
Claude Desmoulins: *similarity.
Kendra Bancroft: I have no problem with adding a Fair Use clause
Claude Desmoulins: I’m concerned about how the documentation requirements are handled.
Kendra Bancroft: how so?
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s fairly obvious when something is ripped off
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like the only local IP law to be related to city infrastructure protection…
Kendra Bancroft: No –that fails to protect our merchants
Claude Desmoulins: What constitute appropriate documentation of permission? Must there be a notarized document, is the fact that something is set copy enough?
Kendra Bancroft: what if someone ripped off my scooter?
Pelanor Eldrich: Just redendency, everything else, do it the LL way.
Pelanor Eldrich: How can they rip off your scooter?
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW, I love it.
Kendra Bancroft: reverse engineer it
Kendra Bancroft: copy it prim for prim
Claude Desmoulins: I’m totally not ready to ban reverse engineering. Prim for prim copy is different.
Pelanor Eldrich: Is that fair use?
Kendra Bancroft: something like a different take on a Vespa isn’t an issue –but what if they made one identical to mine?
Pelanor Eldrich: Did you invent “the vespa”?
Pelanor Eldrich: Your look, yes…
Kendra Bancroft: No –I invented the Neuspa
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If it were identical you’d have something, but I read your bill as being much broader than that.
Kendra Bancroft: what if someone screeshot my nutcracker head –and used it?
Claude Desmoulins: Also. The penalty question of penalty. If you just want cease and desist, that’s in line with existing RL notions of a takedown notice.
Kendra Bancroft: cease and desist is all I’m asking for
Claude Desmoulins: If you want more than that…
Kendra Bancroft: not a criminal punishment
Pelanor Eldrich: What do you do if they screenshot and setup shop outside of town? Nothing can be done if they are non-citizens. We de facto have to go with LL ToS.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m talking IN our Sim
Kendra Bancroft: merchant of N’burg to merchant of N’burg
Claude Desmoulins: Then that needs to be in the bill specifically. This has enough things obsure about it that I really think it would behoove you to rewrite and resubmit.
Claude Desmoulins: “cease and desist that is”
Kendra Bancroft: Fine –I’ll tweak and re submit
Pelanor Eldrich: Like me opening up “Eldrich Neuspa” in NB… ok…
Claude Desmoulins: Also, we’d need the SC to create procedures for ruling if a takedown notice were contested.
Kendra Bancroft: Not the SC
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW, what’s your take on my clothes, they are the flag and map…am I ok or am in violation a) of LL law b)of this bill?
Kendra Bancroft: the Guild would shut down their shop until they comply
Claude Desmoulins: What if someone contested a takedown notice?
Claude Desmoulins: Argued that it wasn’t a violation.
Claude Desmoulins: Surely the court system would adjudicate that/
Kendra Bancroft: Your making clothing out of the flag is not an infrindgment
Kendra Bancroft: someone else maiking the same clothes as you –is
Pelanor Eldrich: what about the map? Sudane wasn’t so sure.
Kendra Bancroft: The map?
Pelanor Eldrich: pants
Kendra Bancroft: No –you tweaked it’s use to ake something new
Kendra Bancroft: make
Kendra Bancroft: That’s Fair Use
Kendra Bancroft: and that’s okay by me
Claude Desmoulins: What about the question of a contested takedown notice? I do appreciate that this seems to be intended to be more narrow than I originally read it to be.
Kendra Bancroft: They are , however, aesthetically ugly, Pel
Kendra Bancroft: Just sayin’
Pelanor Eldrich: sez u
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Still waiting for my suit, madame tailor.
Kendra Bancroft: sez the woman with a nutcracker head
Kendra Bancroft: workin’ on it
Pelanor Eldrich: back to biz
Claude Desmoulins: What about the contested takedown notice?
Kendra Bancroft: That could be mediated by the Guild
Pelanor Eldrich: Is that not an SC matter
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Kendra Bancroft: Nope
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a Guild matter
Pelanor Eldrich: IP infringement is a guild matter? Whoa!
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Why not, infringement is a violation of law under this.
Kendra Bancroft: But the Guild decides if there was a violation
Pelanor Eldrich: So the merchants would argue in front of the GM?
Kendra Bancroft: The SC can mete out the punishment
Claude Desmoulins: With what kind of due process?
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think the SC is qualified to judge
Pelanor Eldrich: So the GM judges, by whatever mech, and the SC sentences…. interesting.
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Is a fellow artisan really sufficiently impartial?
Kendra Bancroft: Call it deferring to expertise
Claude Desmoulins: Or will there be a desire to protect the “club”
Claude Desmoulins: Hypothetically.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s the Guild…fight club meets the freemasons…bribe the grand poo-bah.
Kendra Bancroft: Then perhpas it should be a SC matter with Guild members serving as witnesses
Claude Desmoulins: Please put all these details in the bill, I would be better with that.
Kendra Bancroft: Okie doke
Claude Desmoulins: SC has , hopefully less of a vested interest.
Pelanor Eldrich: There’s nothing impartial about a GM decision.
Kendra Bancroft: Not a GM decision –a vote of all Meisters
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and let Kendra tweak.
Pelanor Eldrich: Could be a political popularity contest.
Kendra Bancroft: So could anything
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever way you want it, just spell it out, it’s your bill 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Not the SC
Kendra Bancroft: Why not?
Kendra Bancroft: There are SC members in the Guild
Kendra Bancroft: everybody is in the Guild –almost anyways
Pelanor Eldrich: They take an oath of impartiality. It’s the meisters, who will split into political factions for and against a GM
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and debate a more detailed bill next time.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t have much faith in their impartiality at the mo’
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve done the whole agenda.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, understand that if I’m “Pro Kendra” for GM, I’ll side with the master who holds my view, and so will the others.
Kendra Bancroft: Now it’s Altenbrau time
Pelanor Eldrich: We got a lot done.
Claude Desmoulins: Let us adjourn.
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Kendra Bancroft: Nitey nite!
Pelanor Eldrich: Nice seeing ya Kendra..
Kendra Bancroft: u 2
Pelanor Eldrich: Any world on Seldon?
The meeting closed at 20:56 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 15, 2006

Meeting on 2006-06-16
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch both boxes.
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: If you haven’t
Salzie Sachertorte has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I call the meeting to order.
Claude Desmoulins: First item:
Claude Desmoulins: Fr is your election system ready to roll?
Pelanor Eldrich: FRC, great job on the vote machine. Does it hook to a backend DB?
Salzie Sachertorte: FC – all i cna see of you is your hat!
Flyingroc Chung: sry, mom’s on IM, so am sorta here and not ehre
Claude Desmoulins: So is the election system good to go?
Flyingroc Chung: election system works
Salzie Sachertorte: hmm,I cant see FRC or Pel
Claude Desmoulins: it’s already budgeted for, I believe.
Flyingroc Chung: salzie, change grup titles
Claude Desmoulins: Contact Sudane about payment.
Claude Desmoulins: This makes the first item unnecessary.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s tab;e
Claude Desmoulins: Next 4-42
Claude Desmoulins: Consider this a supplemental appropriation.
Claude Desmoulins: The idea was to have a lot of $L1 contracts so the city would clearly own the rights to new builds/rebuilds
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Pelanor Eldrich: wait, so is the voting system ready or no?
Claude Desmoulins: There wasn’t money budgeted for this.
Claude Desmoulins: hence…
Pelanor Eldrich: you mean to pay FRC for development?
Flyingroc Chung: sorry, yes, voting system is ready, pending a $L1,000,000 fee per elections held 😉
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Salzie Sachertorte: heee
Claude Desmoulins: Election system is in the budget, I think.
Pelanor Eldrich: what just got tabled
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Claude Desmoulins: A resolution calling on the Guild to get into gear on the election system
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, cuz it’s a fait accompli (done). so it’s not required, got it. Maybe we should just strike it.
Salzie Sachertorte: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yep?
Salzie Sachertorte: Where are you?
Salzie Sachertorte: I can’t see you
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m in the room, maybe it’s update weirdness.
Flyingroc Chung: actually diderot joked that he’d pay me a month’s rent if I finished the voting system 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: back
Flyingroc Chung: salzie, cahnge your active group.
Salzie Sachertorte: I did
Pelanor Eldrich: Shoulda got that notarized FRC, LOL!
Claude Desmoulins: We can just let NR 4-1 die on the table.
Pelanor Eldrich: Stick a fork in it, it’s done….ok suivant/next…
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on NB 4-22?
Claude Desmoulins: 4-42 sorry
Pelanor Eldrich: Sure, finances are ok so I back this.
Flyingroc Chung: I was wondering why it was $500, which seemed like a small amount
Flyingroc Chung: but if it were for $1 contracts…
Claude Desmoulins: right,
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s chimp change, so no prob.
Claude Desmoulins: I thought $500 would give a little bit of flex if someone demanded market rate for an object.
Salzie Sachertorte: i believe the $L1 payemnt was to avoid past problems
Pelanor Eldrich: We can up it later if need be.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-42?
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next
Claude Desmoulins: 4-41
Claude Desmoulins: Finance committee
Flyingroc Chung: this is simply an advisory committee?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Flyingroc Chung: they dont get to do any administrative work?
Claude Desmoulins: Nope
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, it was going to be me and Sudane and Lee, but Lee isn’t around much, so FRC are you interested/
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Claude Desmoulins: This is so Sudane can get more input on the finance decisions.
Flyingroc Chung: I’m probably overcomitted already on nburg stuff, lol
Salzie Sachertorte: She
Salzie Sachertorte: She’s been worried with the $L fluctuations
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s her CC on the line
Salzie Sachertorte: and with kendra leaving, but that is no loner a problem
Salzie Sachertorte: Jon Seatlle bought Alaisi’s land
Claude Desmoulins: We can worry about nominating/appointing people at the next regular meeting.
Flyingroc Chung: oh, most of the land has been bought, then?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ali is still a citizen,no?
Salzie Sachertorte: only one small lot left outside the walls, and 10 inside – not counting hte market
Claude Desmoulins: Everything in the valley except the plot south of Aliasi’s new place.
Claude Desmoulins: is sold
Pelanor Eldrich: You know, maybe we should roll call who’s new and who’s out as citizens at the start of an RA meeting
Salzie Sachertorte: Alais is still in
Flyingroc Chung: uh
Claude Desmoulins: yes?
Flyingroc Chung: there’s a list that’s pretty updated.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Salzie Sachertorte: and we have 3 new micro plot peole
Pelanor Eldrich: Anyway, I back the formation of the committee.
Claude Desmoulins: Let poor Sudane keep track of it. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: no
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-41?
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now 4-40
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we bring eminent domain to the city?
Pelanor Eldrich: I guess this is the meaty bill this time around… :0
Flyingroc Chung: yup
Flyingroc Chung: I’m not sure I like it.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not sure we need it although we may.
Flyingroc Chung: I mean… presumably there is still eminent domain in that the RA can pass a bill for every specific case that we need to…
Claude Desmoulins: One of my issues is that not all land is equal.
Pelanor Eldrich: Wasn’t there an amendment for moving costs? One thing that’s lost is that location changes and it’s possbile that a same dimensioned parcel elsewhere simply isn’t available…thereby requiring totally new builds.
Claude Desmoulins: I have no problem forcing someone to swap quads of prim land for example.
Claude Desmoulins: Once there’s a build on something it’s messier.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, we’ll with 2/3 RA majority, this is going to be for major stuff only.
Pelanor Eldrich: We’re not going to just arbitrarily start issuing these edicts, we’ll get killed in the next election.
Claude Desmoulins: There was also a proposal in the forums to require a land swap if such were possible before this triggered.
Pelanor Eldrich: I think this is for national security, national emergency or *big ass* projects only.
Claude Desmoulins: Brian indicated in the forums that he considered Diderot’s moving compensation amendment a friendly.
Pelanor Eldrich: I live in CT, we don’t want a CT eminient domain scenario in NB
Salzie Sachertorte: / me chuckles
Claude Desmoulins: I thought you were Canadian.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m dual, left Montreal at 25, lived in the states for 7 yrs now.
Flyingroc Chung: I’d be a lot more comfortable if we could delay this bill till after the next elections, or at least til when SDF gets its act together.
Claude Desmoulins: If that’s what you want, we won’t pass anything without you 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: 5 years in Bay Area (San Mateo, Palo Alto, Burlingame and Redwood City)
Claude Desmoulins: Although all this does is set up a mechanism.
Pelanor Eldrich: Now marooned in New Haven. :*
Flyingroc Chung: I dunno, seems to me there needs to be even mroe safegurads against abuse.
Claude Desmoulins: It could be tweaked by requiring a land swap option if m2 are available.
Salzie Sachertorte: well, in Rl in Wisconsin, you get paid 120% of the appraised value
Claude Desmoulins: It probably wouldn’t be a bad thing to write it more narrowly.
Salzie Sachertorte: and you can fight he appriasil in court
Flyingroc Chung: well actually, 2/3rds of the RA + guild might be strong enough
Claude Desmoulins: Althout it takes fewer votes to pass this than to actually seize any property.
Claude Desmoulins: I would have no problem with GM consent being required,
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, I think it’s pretty strong and would only be used in extreme cases. I don’t want to give Prok anymore “NB doesn’t recognize private land” arguement legitimacy.
Claude Desmoulins: It raises a bigger question of how we’ll handle the city redesign.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has proposed a lot of lot shifting.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we table?
Salzie Sachertorte: yes, but she has in mind there are still 10 lots
Flyingroc Chung: I’d like to
Pelanor Eldrich: What is the final plan on that, I can’t figure it out from the forums, is it her latest map illustrated thread?
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Salzie Sachertorte: she’s open to comments
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s take procedure change 2 first.
Claude Desmoulins: This formalizes how we actually do things.
Claude Desmoulins: Any single member can request a seven day vote on something,
Claude Desmoulins: If everyone agrees we can vote in world.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, I’m for it. I’m for 4-40 too.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re tabling 4-40 at FR’s request.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Flyingroc Chung: wait… I’m nt sure I understand the wording here…
Flyingroc Chung: Otherwise, or if one of the members not present has made a public request to do so prior to the meeting
Claude Desmoulins: The way the procedures read now it seems that everything goes to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: This says that if 1) No absent member has requested ahead of time that something be done 7 say and
Claude Desmoulins: 2) No member at the in world meeting wants to go seven day
Claude Desmoulins: Then votes can occur in world.
Claude Desmoulins: You may wantto look at the current procedure document for context.
Flyingroc Chung: ah ok….
Flyingroc Chung: yeah I was just having a bit of difficulty parsing the sentence 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m good, I figure both are just formalizing existing practice.
Flyingroc Chung: We are only formalizing what we are doing now, seems to be ok.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of procedure change 2?
Claude Desmoulins: ayr
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye- arghh something like that.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: #1 is trickier
Pelanor Eldrich: arrr matey…ever seen the Captain’s log? Aaarrrr…
Claude Desmoulins: We want to clarify what closed session can mean– members only, members + civil service , citizens only, somethinge else?
Pelanor Eldrich: hopes the voters don’t review the RA transcipts. 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: right now we can go to closed session for legal or personnel matters, right?
Claude Desmoulins: Right this doesn’t change that.
Claude Desmoulins: The name change procedure bill requires a closed session to choose names.
Flyingroc Chung: ah, only define what it means to be a closed session? or expand the scope of where we can go into closed session?
Claude Desmoulins: This is about deciding who stays and who doesn’t when a closed session occurs.
Claude Desmoulins: The former.
Claude Desmoulins: Two ways to do this:
Claude Desmoulins: 1) some entity (LRA, RA via votes, etc) decides who stays/doesn’t
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t like that because we’ll spend hours debating who to kick out/ not kick out,
Claude Desmoulins: Option 2)
Claude Desmoulins: Create two or three classes of closed session. From which the RA can choose when they vote to enter one.
Flyingroc Chung: how about 3 classes:
Flyingroc Chung: 1.) only RA
Flyingroc Chung: 2.) only RA + citizens
Flyingroc Chung: and 3.) RA + whoever the LRA allows
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts?
Claude Desmoulins: By only RA you mean only members?
Pelanor Eldrich: We should use skyboxes, I’m not sure how private these closed sessions really are.
Claude Desmoulins: We haven’t had one yet.
Pelanor Eldrich: last time,no?
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Claude Desmoulins: Actually there’s no constitutional requirement to publish a transcript.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like the SC to have a sealed transcript, no?
Flyingroc Chung: only a journal
Claude Desmoulins: Right FR.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, journal, then we can talk more freely
Claude Desmoulins: We probably do need to nail this down on closed sessions before Saturday.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have to have one to pick names.
Pelanor Eldrich: 3 classes, aye
Claude Desmoulins: Members only
Claude Desmoulins: Citizens Only
Claude Desmoulins: Members + LRA invitees?
Claude Desmoulins: Do we really need the third one?
Flyingroc Chung: actually, now that I think about it, we need one for citizens + inviteed
Pelanor Eldrich: Non citizens…
Claude Desmoulins: Salzie, do you have thought on this?
Salzie Sachertorte: Well, its up to you
Claude Desmoulins: So do you want to change 3 to citizens + LRA invitees?
Salzie Sachertorte: in Rl, senior staff is included, as they need to carry out the policy
Flyingroc Chung: no have 4 categories, lol
Claude Desmoulins: How would we define senior staff?
Salzie Sachertorte: I think it woudl be wise publish journals of decisions
Salzie Sachertorte: but have transcript s available for citizens who ask
Claude Desmoulins: That will still happen unless the secrecy provision is separately invoked (Journals)
Claude Desmoulins: I think a closed session means no transcript per current procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: So what would the 4 categories be?
Flyingroc Chung: ok
Flyingroc Chung: RA only
Flyingroc Chung: RA + citizens
Flyingroc Chung: RA + LRA invitees
Flyingroc Chung: Citizens + invitees
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want a senior staff provision?
Flyingroc Chung: my thought is that sometimes we might want to invite a few non-citizens to give expert opinion, or something
Salzie Sachertorte: I think invtiees would cover it
Claude Desmoulins: True
Salzie Sachertorte: you could invie senior staff. or the Guild or the SC
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on FR’s amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with it
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Arrrrrr
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion on the whole thing?
Flyingroc Chung: none here
Pelanor Eldrich: *bonk* Pelanor rubber stamps.
Claude Desmoulins: Al in favor of this procedure change?
Claude Desmoulins: *all
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: we’re done
Flyingroc Chung: record time
The meeting closed at 20:44 Linden time.

Permalink.

5th RA – 1 (9)

RA Meeting: August 12, 2006

Meeting on 2006-08-12
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Moon Adamant: hello all 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: HI JOn
Justice Soothsayer: HI Moon
Jon Seattle: Hello
Justice Soothsayer: everyone have their coffee handy? it early AM for me.
Moon Adamant: shall we wait a few minutes ofr Pelanor?
Moon Adamant: oh, i have had two already 🙂
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning Jon.
Jon Seattle: Ah, 6 AM for me and Claude
Jon Seattle: Good morning Claude
Jon Seattle: Good morning Justice
Moon Adamant: good morning everyone 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s give Pel another 5.
Moon Adamant: sure 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t forget to touch the recorder 🙂
Jon Seattle: yes, please
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: ah, what i was about to ask 🙂
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant reads the agenda and documents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello all 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: hi gwyn
Moon Adamant: hi Gwynnie 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn! Was just reading
Jon Seattle smiles at Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi, I’m doing other things as well… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning Gwyn.
Jon Seattle: grabs something to drink, one moment
Jon Seattle: back
Moon Adamant: brb, one miute
Moon Adamant: back
Claude Desmoulins: Ok let’splow in and hope Pel wakes.
Claude Desmoulins: First budget.
Moon Adamant: ok 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Nobody’s posted about this.
Claude Desmoulins: Are we happy with the draft?
Jon Seattle: I have no particular objections..
Moon Adamant: me neither
Justice Soothsayer: nor me
Claude Desmoulins: Shal we vote then?
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor ov approving the budget as submitted?
Moon Adamant: yea
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Jon Seattle: yes
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now back to franchulates
Claude Desmoulins: I know CSDF had some concerns.
Claude Desmoulins: Did the stuff last meeting answer your questions?
Jon Seattle: It did help. We still have concerns about the governance of the fracnhulates.
Jon Seattle: Nevertheless we generally are looking favorably at the idea.
Claude Desmoulins: Can you be more detailed about those concerns?
Jon Seattle: yes, it seems to me that we still have to work out the relationship between new sims, and the frach
Moon Adamant: there were several questions pertinent set in the forums
Jon Seattle: to the goverment. That is issues of a conferatation vs. republic.
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that we need to resove that issue before we know how franches relate to us.
Claude Desmoulins: But a franchulate has a very tight relationship to the national govt.
Moon Adamant: maybe the bill should address those questions too?
Claude Desmoulins listens
Jon Seattle: Yes, it should.
Jon Seattle: So, here is a question. Is a franch tied to another sim, or is is in effect a ‘sim’ like entity of its own.
Jon Seattle: that is as far as the proposed confed. structure?
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps neither. Oh I see what you’re getting at.
Claude Desmoulins: You’re asking how will this work *if* we do sim reps, governors, etc.
Jon Seattle: Yes. I assume we will do something, since we do plan to expand.
Claude Desmoulins: Good question.
Claude Desmoulins: Since this is Pel’s bill I wish he were here to speak to it.
Jon Seattle nods
Jon Seattle: I want to speak to why we generally like the idea as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Ok. Why don’t you do that.
Jon Seattle: Sure. We see this as an opportunity to expand our democracy to new land-owning groups.
Jon Seattle: The exporonto group is a good example of one that might be able to take advantage of this.
Jon Seattle: We do not see this as an economic arrangement only, however. It has larger implications.
Jon Seattle stops talking
Jon Seattle smiles
Justice Soothsayer: seems to me there are 2 questions….
Claude Desmoulins rereads the bill.
Justice Soothsayer: 1) shall we have franchulates, and 2) how would they fit into our current and any future govt structure
Jon Seattle: yes.
Justice Soothsayer: the first question is the one on the table today; the second comes later.
Jon Seattle: Ah, no.
Jon Seattle: If this bill establishes the frach, then we have to be ready to cerate them.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon. The bill says that franchisees must “be citizens”.
Moon Adamant: i agree with you Jon
Claude Desmoulins: If we clarify that to mean that an avatar must hold non mainland NFS land before applying for one…
Claude Desmoulins: Then we could view the mainland franchulate as being outside the sim governance structure.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, clarification is always good 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Something like this….
Claude Desmoulins: The franchulate is subject only to code provisions that apply to all NFS (ie the no porn rule)
Claude Desmoulins: I think my 2 yr old just got up
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Moon Adamant: kk 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, exactly. We need to make that relationship clear in the bill.
Claude Desmoulins: All voting is based on where the avatar hold his/her non mainland land.
Jon Seattle: As far as I can see the bill, is only a fincancial description.
Moon Adamant: yes, also, to continue my reasoning, i’d like to see that the bill included the answers that were given to the issues raised in forums, such as no sub-letting, etc
Claude Desmoulins: Apart from those things the franchulate is outside the themed covenants,
Claude Desmoulins: , and the franchisee may build upon it what he or she wishes.
Jon Seattle: It is not clear to me, from reading it, that it would even be under the no porn rule. So it does need to be expanded a bit.
Moon Adamant: yes Jo. also Claude, what you just said should be in it as well
Claude Desmoulins: We also need to redo CC&R to clarify what’s sim specific and what’s not.
Moon Adamant: Our main objection to the bill as it stands is the way as it stands
Moon Adamant: since, as Jon said, we are agreeable to the idea
Justice Soothsayer: sounds like some fine tuning is in order, but the concept is OK
Moon Adamant: but we do think further clarification is needed
Jon Seattle: yes, Justice, exactly.
Claude Desmoulins: I have to be in and out checking on toddler.
Moon Adamant: sure Claude, np
Jon Seattle nods and smiles at Claude
Justice Soothsayer: let’s table franchulates pending some re-drafting, w suggestions to be sent to PEl
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to try to amend this here and now?
Jon Seattle: I think we can let Pel work on it.
Claude Desmoulins: Or I’m fine withthat.
Claude Desmoulins: (table and refer)
Jon Seattle nods
Claude Desmoulins: Next the first of FR’s propsed amendments.
Moon Adamant: i’d like to have Pel redrafting it with us, if we choose to redraft it in RA
Moon Adamant: Aticle VI, section 3?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, ler’s let Pel redraft.
Claude Desmoulins: and Yes VI, 3
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: and ok 🙂
Jon Seattle: One moment, pulling up
Moon Adamant: me too
Claude Desmoulins: His gist is that the constitutional ban on ultimatums does not in fact do much to prevent de facto ultimatums.
Moon Adamant: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Instead of threatening to leave, people just announce that they are, at which point…
Jon Seattle: True on the part of citizens .. since those would be protected speach I think.
Claude Desmoulins: you get a lot of “why?” and “Oh please don’t go.” and the reason they would have given an ultimatum usually gets discussed anyway.
Jon Seattle: But what does this language mean: In return the government will not issue discharge ultimatums to citizens.
Jon Seattle laughs
Justice Soothsayer: “love it or leave it”
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t *know*
Claude Desmoulins: I *presume*
Claude Desmoulins: that…
Claude Desmoulins: it was designed to prevent land reclamation without some sort of process.
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe we can ask an SC person if we can get her attention 🙂
Moon Adamant pokes the SC Dean…
Moon Adamant: oh, one sec
Jon Seattle: A due process clause would be very welcome. This one is rather vague.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel is en route.
Jon Seattle: Ah, good!
Jon Seattle: Gwyn just went offline.
Claude Desmoulins: So much for SC clarification 🙂
Jon Seattle: Lets wait a moment.
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: Once again, sorry guys.
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Pel
Jon Seattle: Hi Pelanor!
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: back, sorry (phone)
Moon Adamant: ans hello Pelanor 😀
Pelanor Eldrich: Hiya!
Claude Desmoulins: 3 yr old
Moon Adamant: Gwyn is having some troubles, not sure if she will be able to relog
Pelanor Eldrich: So we’re amending franchulates…
Jon Seattle: Pel, feanch was tabled
Claude Desmoulins: No you’re going to amend franchulates 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll fill you in later.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah…no sweat. Ok, will do. What’s next?
Jon Seattle nods
Jon Seattle: We are talking about the const. amendment to section VI
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to vote on Vi-3 or replace it with some sort of process clause.
Jon Seattle: I think it would be a great idea to replace it with a due process clause. The language is so unclear.
Moon Adamant: indeed it is
Claude Desmoulins: Or do we want to modify the process clause in the existing Vi-2
Moon Adamant pulls that one up
Moon Adamant: wb Gwyn 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Vi -2 as it now stands guarantees a week grace period and a hearing.
Claude Desmoulins: FR’s proposed vi-2 amendment would remove that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry guys.
Jon Seattle smiles at Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: toddler
Jon Seattle: why remove that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just managed to lose all the transcript…
Claude Desmoulins: can we take 5?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon told me that you were asking why we have VI, 6?
Jon Seattle nods
Justice Soothsayer needs coffee anyways
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, actually we were wanting to clarify the language.
Moon Adamant: well, Gwyn, the wording of it is a bit unclear…
Jon Seattle: We think it is a due process clause, but that is not really clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s rather simple, really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was designed to prevent something that actually happened before,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: citizens doing blackmail on the government,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the government doing blackmail on the citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A silly example.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that Sudane gets crazy and says: “unless I get now a salary of L$100,000, approved in the budget,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “I will leave NFS and demolish all structures inside the City”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So effectively, in some cases, individuals could blackmail the government…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but the reverse is even more worrying.
Claude Desmoulins: And a lot of good it did 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The government could say: “unless citizen X says that she loves NFS, we’ll remove her land”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes,
Jon Seattle: Ah, so it is a due process clause.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s arguable if this ever happened
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes Jon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, it’s arguable if it suits any purpose,
Pelanor Eldrich: The GM/Sim/Estate owner is a special case, and we really haven’t addressed. I like having the clause in there to keep the departure process smooth.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but as you know it was also a part of Ulrika’s process.
Pelanor Eldrich: For John Q. citizen.
Claude Desmoulins: But Vi-2 enumerates the triggers for citizenship revocation.
Jon Seattle: I think instead of removing it, we need to re-write it so that it is more clear what is required.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is only what constitutes an “ultimatum”.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, and maybe it’s best left in the penal code, outside the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was thoroughly discussed…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but eventually you’re right, Pelanor.
Jon Seattle: Well, in the US system due process is a constitutional concept, in effect it is a right of citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was mostly meant to be as something immutable by simple law 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Jon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The founders wanted to make sure that the government does not threaten its citizens,
Claude Desmoulins: And vi-2 at present makes explicit a right to a hearing before revocation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: without due process 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and vice-versa, of course)
Jon Seattle: yes, of course Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Claude ? but that is “after the fact”, ie.
Pelanor Eldrich: If is has zero utility and is unenforceable, it should be stricken. But I like it in principle if it can be binding.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the government could THREATEN first.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the citizen would leave next,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and you would basically ignore the preocess “oh, since that epson left…”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *person
Claude Desmoulins: I see your point. Gwyn, but how can we make it clear and enforceable?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soooo this article prevents the THREATENING.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You think it’s unenforceable?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where are threats published?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forums mostly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The role of moderating those,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rely on the SC,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: who so far has OFTEN (not once or twice… but OFTEn) used that article,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to prevent citizens or the government to issue public threats.
Moon Adamant nods
Jon Seattle: yes
Pelanor Eldrich: So the distinction is basically “I’m leaving right now if you don’t xyz” (illegal) vs. “I’m leaving in 7 days because xyz” (legal). right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More or the less, Pelanor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even the second case could be interpreted 🙂 Peoploe leaving… just leave,
Pelanor Eldrich: To be adjudicated by the SC of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they shouldn’t make their leaving be “conditional” on something happening or not.
Claude Desmoulins: And what benefit do we get from splitting that hair?
Pelanor Eldrich: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we don’t get free power or cleaner air from it,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just a better definition of civic duties.
Jon Seattle: Well, I think there is also the idea that the goverment should not issue threats, etc.
Pelanor Eldrich: The gov’t is not held captive by a large landholder.
Moon Adamant: well, it is important, as we say here, ‘to understand the mind of the legislator’ 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Jon.
Jon Seattle nods to Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And indeed, pelanor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So if Anshe bought up the sim, and threatened to go away unless the land fees were reduced,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: she would be violating the constitution, if she vented that threat publicly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, the “threats” don’t affect individuals directly,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but they make others think if they shouldn’t leave
Pelanor Eldrich: The other barrier to that is the fact that we limit land holdings by a single avi…however, with alts…maybe we still need this clause.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they happen to agree with the person issuing the threat
Claude Desmoulins: Here we get to the issue of constitution v Penal code since there’s no stated penalty for doing this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (either the government, or an individual)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Claude,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would be for the RA to decide.
Claude Desmoulins: BTW I probably only have about 15 min ,
Jon Seattle: But the clause is used by the SC to moderate the forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the Const. defines the principle of “no ultimatums”,
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA defines the legal framework for applying sanctions.
Claude Desmoulins: I move that we table.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is indeed, Jon.
Jon Seattle: Lets, while we table, work on a draft of new language for next meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: new language? We’re going to do the meetings in Esperanto? 🙂 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: maybe even a bill to address apropriate penalties.
Moon Adamant: ok, agree with Jon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Ok Vi-2
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to propose an amendment.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, well it gives flexibility to the penal code.
Jon Seattle listens
Pelanor Eldrich: listents
Moon Adamant listens
Pelanor Eldrich: stfus
Claude Desmoulins: Leave Vi-2 as isexcept for striking “or removing land tiers”
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Pelanor
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Claude Desmoulins: Even though the week cooling off is ofen not enforced.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t know that it’s bad.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, you mean, because we don’t have groups and land tiers anyway?
Jon Seattle nods
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But did you approve the franchulates? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Also it forces the city to move slowly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, as said, I lost all the transcripts.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s getting redrafted.
Pelanor Eldrich: franches were tabled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have groups and land tiers when that gets approved.
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, we asked Pel to claify the bill, but CSDF generally stated support for some version of franch.
Moon Adamant: just for clarification:
Claude Desmoulins: In a franchulate model, a city “machine” (like Rudeen) is the official land owner.
Moon Adamant: this proposal is to change the LAST sentence only of this section, right?
Claude Desmoulins: So franchisees wouldn’t be removing tier.
Claude Desmoulins: first sentence of Vi-2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m all for it. I just don’t understand why you’re proposing to remove the only sanction that is explicitly stated in the Constitution 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: what sanction is that?
Justice Soothsayer: Claude is proposing ONLY to strike “or removing land tiers”; he’d keep the rest of VI-2.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re just removing the FIRST sentence, or all of VI-2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what is “the group” then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I got you wrong on that.
Claude Desmoulins: just the words or removing land tier.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Moon Adamant: so what would be the final wording, this one?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it would state: “Citizens must give a one-week notice before leaving the group. n return the city guarantees a hearing and a one-week grace period before revoking citizenship. Citizenship may be revoked for violation of city laws or covenants, …”
Claude Desmoulins: the group exists even if by group we don’t mean an SL inworld one.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, seems peaceful.
Moon Adamant strauggle swith SL interface
Pelanor Eldrich: sees doves flying
Claude Desmoulins: further discussion on the amendment?
Moon Adamant: ok Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn laughs at Pelanor
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none
Moon Adamant: and lol Pelanor
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of my amendment to the amendment.
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: oh my, recursion.
Jon Seattle: yes
Moon Adamant: yes
Pelanor Eldrich: aye(call aye)
Claude Desmoulins: any other discussion on the amendment as amended
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Pelanor Eldrich: dumb recursion joke
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: seeing none
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment?
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye (v2)
Jon Seattle: yea
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: I’m going to ask Justice to speak to 5-6
Pelanor Eldrich: huzzah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This s becoming easier 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Claude, I’ll be brief since you have to go soon.
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t worry that will end soon 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: This deceptively simple piece of legislation raises a lot of questions as our pre-meeting forum discussions have begun to identify…
Justice Soothsayer: 1) Do we need an executive? If so:
Pelanor Eldrich: We could amend to “Burger King”
Gwyneth Llewelyn sniggers at Justice
Justice Soothsayer: 1) Do we need an executive? If so:
Justice Soothsayer: 2) Should the executive be a separate branch of government or subject to one of the existing branches, and if so, which one?
Justice Soothsayer: 3) If the executive is a separate branch of government, does it replace the AC (Guild)?
Justice Soothsayer: 4) If the executive replaces the AC, what happens to the AC?s veto?
Justice Soothsayer: 5) How and by whom should the executive be selected?
Justice Soothsayer: 6) Would the executive have sim-level responsibilities or nationwide (multi-sim) responsibilities
Justice Soothsayer: 7) Under what circumstances could the executive be removed, and by whom?
Justice Soothsayer: 8) What should be the duration of the executive?s term?
Justice Soothsayer: 9) Should the answers to these questions be made in the form of legislation or a constitutional amendment?
Justice Soothsayer: I certainly don?t have all the answers (or even all the questions)…
Justice Soothsayer: But I do have a position on some of these issues.
Justice Soothsayer: First, I think we do need an executive, but I am not ready for sweeping constitutional change…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice, brilliant presentation of all those questions!
Justice Soothsayer: We need to experiment with having an executive created by statute, not constitutional amendment….
Moon Adamant: yes, very good summary, Justice 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: not to supplant the AC but to supplement it…
Justice Soothsayer: an executive selected by and responsible to the duly elected representatives of the citizens in the form of the RA…
Justice Soothsayer: for the duration of this legislative session…
Justice Soothsayer: The next election campaign can be about whether the change has been good, should be kept or not, or should be a constitutional amendment or not…
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, so this looks like a sim based executive under jurisdiction of the RA. Right?
Justice Soothsayer: That said, I will say this to our friends in CSDF:
Justice Soothsayer: understand why you would like this to be a constitutional amendment, and why some of your answers to these questions are different from mine…
Justice Soothsayer: And I do not want this passed today only by the DPU majority, but by a consensus of at least 4 of the RA…
Justice Soothsayer: So ultimately even though I am the sponsor of this bill, modeled on Ashcroft?s suggestions, I will vote ?nay? today unless we can come to an agreement of at least 4 of us (by constitutional amendment OR by statute)…
Justice Soothsayer: And I?m listening, so will now give up the soapbox. Than ks!
Moon Adamant nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Moon Adamant: lol, you’re quick Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I have a gesture for that 🙂 )
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you claude,
Moon Adamant wonders if your hand will be stuck for ever like that someday… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wanted to point out something, as a member of the SC.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (while personally you all know that I’m for *any* type of executive. Having one that is badly structured is far better than nothing at all)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But as a member of the SC, i have read Ashcroft’s arguments very carefully,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and some of your own.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is just a SLIGHT problem at this point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Guild’s powers are not “codified” ? either in law, or at the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have a precedent.
Claude Desmoulins doubts it’s slight 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, two precedents.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both were vetoes by the SC,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: once under my own term as LRA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the 2nd time on the previous term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was considered that all matters financial,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pertain to the Guild,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *except* for teh budget,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is presented and approved by the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The reaqsoning for this came from the Guild’s veto on financial issues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was considered at the time, that the RA plans,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Guild provides
Claude Desmoulins: So would one have to pass an amendment explicitly stripping the guild of its non veto financial powers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA budgets,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Guild has the money.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What *needs* to be amended,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or at least clarified (and with the two vetoes, I hardly see how you can do it without an amendment)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that the Guild somehow has never had any financial powers,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but they were always the province of the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the *least* that needs to be clarified.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or else, the SC, in good conscience,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would have at least to point out two instances when the RA tried to pass those powers into a new body,
Claude Desmoulins: rbb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and was vetoed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… the *form* of the executive is not a constitutional issue,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it could be an amendment or legislation,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the delegation of RA powers is clear,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the delegation of any financial powers is forbidden, under precedent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Recomemndation:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: at *least* amend the financial powers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest it’s up to you guys.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternative (very messy):
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since the Guild has no established procedures,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no legislative powers,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it could nevertheless emit a “statement”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that it “delegates financial powers to the soon-to-be-created executive”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now this is way messier.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How “legal” would that statement be? The Guild never wrote any such document.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But at least it would be clear ? for the SC at least ? that the Guild is willing to delegate their powers as well,
Moon Adamant: that does NOT comprehend the Wicked Wicked Guildmeister Scenario, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not “have the RA” delegate any Guild powers to a third branch.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Moon,
Moon Adamant: i mean… what if the Gulild, somewhere in teh future, just decided not to?
Moon Adamant: Guild*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under that scenario, a Wicked Guildmeister could simple revoke that statement
Jon Seattle: And so a future Guild could take back that delegation of powers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes exactly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And stop the executive in its tracks. Not a good idea.
Justice Soothsayer: or perhaps a useful check on a Wicked Executive?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ashcroft’s reasoning (and I think Justice’s too) was mostly “but the Guild never had those powers”
Moon Adamant: you could even have a Dr. Jeckyl/Mr Hide Scenario…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, if it doesn’t ahve those powers,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s amend the constitution to make CLEAR they didn’t have those powers to start with!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?nd keep my consicence happy 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, indeed.
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: thanks, gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Otherwise, I’ll have to pull the argumentation for those two vetoes, and apply it again 😛 which I truly DON’t want to do… on a personal level, that is.
Moon Adamant: ok….
Jon Seattle: I will say, personally, that I am uncomfortable in any major change in the way we operate, that is
Moon Adamant: so in short, we have to first of all amend this issue?
Jon Seattle: not the specifics, but the meta-level, our
Jon Seattle: our procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: Although the SC could veto the amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sorry, but my son is up.
Jon Seattle: being set by law (that can change at any moment) rather than through constitutional means.
Justice Soothsayer: the son also rises?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the “clarifying” amendments are historically never vetoed 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Any way we could adjourn and toss this all around in forums?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. I just added a post to that thread…
Pelanor Eldrich: is glad Gywn’s here for this session.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Grr well, I personally hate the way we have to rely upon 7200 posts or so just to understand “intent”, instead of having it all properly codified 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ah well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, the new Dean should be elected soon 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Maybe we can start summarizing…
Claude Desmoulins: I mean adjourn the meeting and discuss the langueage of proposed amendments inthe forum.
Jon Seattle: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an objection to adjournment?
Moon Adamant: ?sure
Jon Seattle: no objection
Moon Adamant: none here
Pelanor Eldrich: sure
Justice Soothsayer: adjourn
Pelanor Eldrich: listens for gavel
Claude Desmoulins: The we are adjorned. See you next week same time.
The meeting closed at 5:36 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: August 05, 2006

Gwyneth Llewelyn: when choosing the words for the “instatement” or “swearing-in” of the newly elected members,

Missing lines: Chat recorder error

Gwyneth Llewelyn: which preserves the right of professing any religion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: usually, the more “modern” ‘oaths’ are not religious in nature,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and even some religions actually forbid oaths explicitly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I gave to each member a “neutral” version of the “affirmation act” ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning mostly that they will, according to their personal beliefs, strongly and solemnly affirm their willingness to serve.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Each one will, of course, have the freedom to make that affirmation into an oath
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and even swearing by their own personal religious beliefs ? if they so will 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, the words might not be exactly the same 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That said and done,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s start, by the order the seats that were elected,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude Desmoulins, will you state your intentions to serve as a member of the Representative Assembly?
Claude Desmoulins: I, Claude Desmoulins, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt/CDS…
Claude Desmoulins: , do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,…
Claude Desmoulins: , that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Republic of Neufreistadt/CDS , and that I will preserve protect and defend the Constutituion of Neufreistadt/CDS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon Seattle, will you state your intentions to serve as a member of the Representative Assembly?
Jon Seattle: yes
Jon Seattle: I, Jonathan Seattle, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt/CDS,
Jon Seattle: do solemnly swear affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,
Jon Seattle: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Republic of Neufreistadt/CDS,
Jon Seattle: and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Neufreistadt/CDS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice Soothsayer, will you state your intentions to serve as a member of the Representative Assembly?
Justice Soothsayer: I, Justice Soothsayer, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt/CDS, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the
Justice Soothsayer: Republic of Neufreistadt/CDS, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Neufreistadt/CDS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was fast, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you, Justice!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon Adamant, will you state your intentions to serve as a member of the Representative Assembly?
Justice Soothsayer: cut & paste!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was the idea about the notecard, btw)
Moon Adamant: I, Moon Adamant, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt/CDS,
Moon Adamant: do solemnly swear, on my honour, that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,
Moon Adamant: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Republic of Neufreistadt/CDS,
Moon Adamant: and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Neufreistadt/CDS.
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you, Moon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, sadly, we’re lacking Pelanor… so his affirmation has to be postponed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next step will be the reinstatement of a very old tradition in Neufreistadt,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, one that only happened once 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was never put into writing,
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but the Leader of the Representative Assembly, forerly called the “Burgermeister”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: was expected to deliver a State of Address speech.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we may sit down now,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and welcome Claude tohis speech 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *to his
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Claude Desmoulins: My fellow citizens, we stand at a pivotal moment.
Claude Desmoulins: In the last fifteen months we have grown from a handful of brave souls on a private island that no one was sure could be sustained…
Claude Desmoulins: ….to a community of more than 35 members.
Claude Desmoulins: We have weathered our greatest storm…
Claude Desmoulins: …and answered one of the questions that precipitated the founding of the city, …
Claude Desmoulins: “Can a community survive the departure of its founders?”
Claude Desmoulins: The answer to that question is a resounding “Yes.”
Claude Desmoulins: As we look back at the last few months, we ask, “What makes Neufreistadt what it is?”
Claude Desmoulins: Is it our theme?
Claude Desmoulins: In this sim, Fachwerken coexist with ominous towers and Roman temples.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Bauhaus and Biergarten stand mere tens of meters apart.
Claude Desmoulins: We prepare to expand into a sim filled with Corinthian columns rather than half timbered buildings.
Claude Desmoulins: Is it our theme?
Claude Desmoulins: It is not.
Claude Desmoulins: Is it our builds?
Claude Desmoulins: With no disrespect to the many fine builders here whose work you see throughout the city,…
Claude Desmoulins: …. it is not.
Claude Desmoulins: On April 28 and again on June 2, the virtual sun rose on a city with builds and roads and walls missing.
Claude Desmoulins: Did Neufreistadt end?
Claude Desmoulins: It did not.
Claude Desmoulins: Is it our documents?
Claude Desmoulins: While they are a civic framework unparalleled in Second Life,
Claude Desmoulins: they are not.
Claude Desmoulins: The turbulent events through which we have passed were triggered, in part, by a proposal to change those documents.
Claude Desmoulins: Some even suggested they be replaced entirely.
Claude Desmoulins: Despite the ensuing acrimony and disagreement, did Neufreistadt tear itself to shreds?
Claude Desmoulins: It did not.
Claude Desmoulins: Our greatest strength can be seen in our response to the calamity of June 2.
Claude Desmoulins: Ratherthan petitioning the SC for this or that,
Claude Desmoulins: or asking what bill had to be passed to fix things,
Claude Desmoulins: ,citizens came and asked, “What can I do to help?”
Claude Desmoulins: They came to rebuild something bigger and more important than their house or their lot.
Claude Desmoulins: What mattered for Neufreistadt at this darkest moment wasn’t the theme,
Claude Desmoulins: wasn’t the builds, and wasn’t the documents.
Claude Desmoulins: It was our sense of community that was , and is, our greatest strength.
Claude Desmoulins: As we go forward, many challenges await us.
Claude Desmoulins: How to expand — How to reform.
Claude Desmoulins: As we face these challenges, let us not forget our neighbors and neighnorhoods.
Claude Desmoulins: As we grow, let us not forget our community.
Claude Desmoulins: No matter what obstacles we face.
Claude Desmoulins: No matter what opportunities we seize.
Claude Desmoulins: This community can survive and thrive.
Claude Desmoulins: If we do so, we will do so…
Claude Desmoulins: …because we stand…
Claude Desmoulins: together.
Sudane Erato: yaya111 yay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well thank you very much Claude!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent!
Moon Adamant applauds!
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear!
Salzie Sachertorte: yeah!
Jon Seattle applauds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh this should be publiched on our web site!
Sudane Erato applauds
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aw. We have now Pelanor with us,
Ito Genji applauds
Salzie Sachertorte: Will do!
Sudane Erato: fabulous!!
Moon Adamant: excellent speech, Claude!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since the RA should start their meeting,
Jon Seattle: yes, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps we could just “swear him in” briefly?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: sure
Pelanor Eldrich: Very sorry about being late.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Pelanor, will you stand up please? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll give you a moment to read the notecard … 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then, the question:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor Eldrich, will you state your intentions to serve as a member of the Representative Assembly?
Pelanor Eldrich: Repeat after me….after me.
Pelanor Eldrich: I, Pelanor “Mappy Pants” Eldrich, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt/CDS
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: …
Gwyneth Llewelyn *brandishes her sword*
Pelanor Eldrich: do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability
Pelanor Eldrich: …..
Pelanor Eldrich: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Republic of Neufreistadt/CDS, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Neufreistadt/CDS.
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Justice Soothsayer: well done!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, thank you, pelanor 🙂
Jon Seattle applauds
Moon Adamant laughs and waves Hi at Mappy Pants 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: All right
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the document box for agenda and notecards.
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi moon!
Claude Desmoulins: A gentle reminder to our vistors:
Claude Desmoulins: Per RA procedures, only Neufreistadt/CDS citizens may address the meeting. All are welcome to observe.
Gwyneth Llewelyn will silently slice the heads of those unwilling to comply 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to welcome or welcome back the members of the RA, the Dean, the Guildmeisterin and our visitors.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s begin
Gwyneth Llewelyn *bows*
Salzie Sachertorte thinks we should disarm Gwyn
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: lol
Claude Desmoulins: NB 5-1 the Flag Act (proposed)
Jon Seattle laughs
Claude Desmoulins: For some weeks we have been discussing the provision of new “iconography” for the city.
Claude Desmoulins: This is an attempt to move that process forward.
Claude Desmoulins: The referenced design is Dianne’s.
Claude Desmoulins: It hangs outside her Platz shop.
Claude Desmoulins: discussion?
Moon Adamant: nothing to object
Sudane Erato: i think its great… altho she’s out of touch for the time being
Claude Desmoulins: Else I would have raised the IP issue with her and tried to settle that.
Sudane Erato: I think the owl is the perfect symbol for NStadt
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote?
Pelanor Eldrich: Regardless of the design, we need “something” as inconography. (BTW I like the design)
Pelanor Eldrich: sure
Moon Adamant nods
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor ?
Jon Seattle: yes
Pelanor Eldrich: yes
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Moon Adamant: yes
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Sudane Erato: first act of the new session!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think this was the quickest ever…
Claude Desmoulins: Now 5-2
Moon Adamant: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Fundraising for expansion
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone wish to speak to this?
Sudane Erato: I will only say that I completely support this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do as well, but I’m just expressing a personal opinion 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I do as well, and would like to help offer bonds in the future for general CDS use (not as part of this bill).
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote?
Jon Seattle: yes,
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Jon Seattle: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my.
Gwyneth Llewelyn forsees a very different RA 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *foresees
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to budget.
Moon Adamant: yes
Claude Desmoulins: This is just a discussion session
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane,
Claude Desmoulins: It’s your draft.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Would you like to say anything?
Sudane Erato: oooh… I need it in front of me… one moment
Justice Soothsayer: I have one comment on the budget. I know why CN is separated, but I’d like to see it included in the totals as well. Its an important precedent.
Sudane Erato: thats a good point
Sudane Erato: the only real issue there..
Sudane Erato: is that the process of acquisition of CN.. per se…
Sudane Erato: is not an expense…
Jon Seattle nods
Sudane Erato: but rather a capital expenditure….
Sudane Erato: which will be returned…
Sudane Erato: but..
Sudane Erato: you’re right
Sudane Erato: I will combine them…
Justice Soothsayer: so maybe we need a capital budget?
Sudane Erato: well… we do
Sudane Erato: and that gets much moere complex
Sudane Erato: I have never yet evaluated the “value” of even NStadt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah!
Sudane Erato: so… we have a ways to go to make a “real” capital budget
Justice Soothsayer: priceless!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hehe yes, Justice,
Moon Adamant: indeed, Justice!
Jon Seattle wonders if there any second life accounting firms as yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I think that Sudane meant the assets 🙂
Salzie Sachertorte: Dual budgeting is very difficult –
Sudane Erato: yes.. hehe
Sudane Erato: the $$ value 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm 🙂
Salzie Sachertorte: Then you have fights over which budget to allocate expenses to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Salzie, although analytical accounting could work out fine…
Salzie Sachertorte has vast experience in this in RL.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn remembers to send Sudane a software package called “Business Plan Pro” 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, you have Windows or a Mac?
Sudane Erato: :)… win
Sudane Erato: and I have finally gotten my copy up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Hmm. perhaps I’ll send that to you, then… it could help you out
Sudane Erato: so…
Sudane Erato: there are two primary parts
Sudane Erato: first part are the revenue projections…
Sudane Erato: followed by the *necessary* expenses
Sudane Erato: paying the tier
Sudane Erato: this budget *estimates* that those two elements… revenues minus necessay expenses
Sudane Erato: will yoield us L$145,000 for “diiscretionary spending
Sudane Erato: we can discuss of course, that number
Sudane Erato: but
Sudane Erato: it will be in that area
Sudane Erato: then..
Sudane Erato: to allocate the $$ available for discretionary spending…
Sudane Erato: we have my list of suggestions..
Sudane Erato: this is surely open for discussion and alteration
Sudane Erato: I will say right now..
Sudane Erato: that my biggest interest is in seeing the Lnad Management process thru
Sudane Erato: and in providing a real, substantial promotion/events budget
Sudane Erato: thats pretty much it
Sudane Erato: the CN budgeting is from the CH SPC
Sudane Erato: which is supervising that
Sudane Erato: CVN SPC
Sudane Erato: jesus
Sudane Erato: CN SPC 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for all the thorough explanations 🙂
Jon Seattle smiles
Pelanor Eldrich: speaking…er, oh, sorry.
Pelanor Eldrich: thanks Sudane!
Claude Desmoulins: Comments?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing to comment at this time,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: except for the comment on the forums ?
Moon Adamant: nothing to comment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the authorisation should be from RA to the Guild
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not to the Guildmeisterinn 🙂
Sudane Erato: in whatever new form it may take
Claude Desmoulins: That was 5-2 and it was taken care of, I believe.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (apologies to Pat who will be reading this later and complain about my pedantism 😉 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat suggested that.
Moon Adamant: lol
Pelanor Eldrich: I like the budget and have fully confidence in the AC, and specifically Sudane’s extensive past experience in both drawing up our budget, and handling the complex process of expansion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hear, hear!
Sudane Erato: :)/.. ty
Claude Desmoulins notes that he only has about 20 minutes or so to devote to this mornings meeting.
Moon Adamant: indeed 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Welll let’s discuss it in forums.
Claude Desmoulins: Probably to vote on next week unless someone objects.
Pelanor Eldrich: *cough* –MUSH— *cough*
Jon Seattle: point of order. Would it be possible to deal with Gwynstreass before franchuletes?
Claude Desmoulins: Sure, any particular reason?
Pelanor Eldrich: sure
Pelanor Eldrich: less contentious for one.
Jon Seattle: Just because the frach. will require more discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: True
Justice Soothsayer: no objection. lets get the simple ones done first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No vote on 5-2? 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: Been there done that.
Moon Adamant: i support the point of order
Claude Desmoulins: 5-4 then
Claude Desmoulins: I believe I canvased all the residents on Gwynethstr.
Claude Desmoulins: The gist would be to put the houses against the wall an the street behind.
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: indeed
Claude Desmoulins: Everone would move south or southwest about 5 m
Claude Desmoulins: This lets us connect Gwynethstr to the platz
Claude Desmoulins: Wit the possibility of an extension to Kendrastr. running north of the Altenburg plot
Claude Desmoulins: Though that extension is not inthis bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As one of the residents of Gwynethstr., like Claude mentioned, I was consulted and fully agree to the plan 🙂
Moon Adamant: i support this change in the urban tissue of n’stadt, both as a resident in teh street and from a technical pov
Moon Adamant: both in terms of urban design, as in the sense of a more perfect recreation of what a medieval build would be
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: Let’s vote. Vote early! Vote often! (and not just in elections) 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Because of Rl I’m afriad franchulates is the last thing we’ll get to this morning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie 🙂 When will the bulldozers arrive? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Ask Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will!
Sudane Erato: I’ll plan the street moving…
Moon Adamant: lol
Jon Seattle laughs
Sudane Erato: shouldn’t be too hard
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane needs a hardhat.
Sudane Erato: haha
Claude Desmoulins: Now 5-3 Franchulates.
Sudane Erato: my head is already hard 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Again, I apologize for waking up late.
Claude Desmoulins: Since the explanation has already gone up in forums.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s go straight to discussion.
Moon Adamant: kk
Moon Adamant: i have a comment… or more than one, lol
Pelanor Eldrich: sure…
Moon Adamant: we are aware that this bill relates to a proposa expressed in the DPU platform
Pelanor Eldrich: nods
Moon Adamant: we think that this discussion wil llead us in directly in the Confederation vs Republic discussion
Ito Genji subtly slips away for a moment
Moon Adamant: we don’t think that this issue should be discussed solely in terms of economics/financial
Moon Adamant: and that there are deeper issues realting
Moon Adamant: one question immediately occurs to me
Moon Adamant: the draft proposes
Moon Adamant: The franchulate is expected to fully uphold the CDS constitution and is treated as land annexed to the CDS.
Moon Adamant: end of quote
Pelanor Eldrich: I honestly think the bill could work equally well if we are a republic or a federation or a hair club for men.
Claude Desmoulins: Since the subsidiaries on the mainland have no political autonomy , how is this a step toward anything politically?
Moon Adamant: what would happen, i ask, if a sovereign RA in a franchulate would deliberate – in its sovereignity – to something against the CDS constitution?
Jon Seattle: A question: how would zoning be decided in a franch?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm? The franchulate bill doesn’t state that they would have “sovereign RAs”…
Pelanor Eldrich: ah, there’s no RA in a franch. The RA is here.
Claude Desmoulins: Franchulats don’t have RA’s anymore that your or my house has an RA.
Claude Desmoulins: They’re parcels.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: City parcels that don’t happen to be on sim.
Moon Adamant: so… how do they stand in a federation context?
Pelanor Eldrich: Right. At most the franch owner has say over zoning on his/her parcel. That’s the only extra power we offer and they tend to pay a premium for it.
Jon Seattle: If the DPU proposal is realized, this would present a problem.
Claude Desmoulins: They don’t
Claude Desmoulins: Since the DPU proposal hasn’t been realized…
Jon Seattle: Which land decision making body woud decide on how things are managed?
Claude Desmoulins: A valid point,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA comment: as long as this bill does not sggest or propose a Governmental reform, but just a way to add territory beyond the current sim, there are no constitutional issues at stake.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, *SC comment
Moon Adamant: hmmmm, isn’t this contraditory then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The way I read it, it’s just a way to add territory.
Jon Seattle smiles at Gwyn
Pelanor Eldrich: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we don’t know what reforms may or may not pass.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Claude. So from the PoV of the SC, this bill is totally harmless, lol
Jon Seattle: So, from a governance point of view, we really do not yet know what these will look like.
Claude Desmoulins: Only in the sense that were unsure how thy fit in to mlti sim
Claude Desmoulins: Kids are up.
Justice Soothsayer: this bill would extend the citys territory beyond the sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. All is well that way 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Think of it as buying a parcel in NFS, except it’s on the mainland and it’s a free covenant.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, we changed from “tiered land” to “private island”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no constitution changes needed,
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote or table ere we adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we move to “private island + franchulates”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all is well 🙂
Jon Seattle: I would ask that we ajourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jon Seattle: or table..
Justice Soothsayer: second – my daughter’s up too!
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table this and what we didn’t get to to same time next week.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, BTW way I apologize, this really should have been presented a la Ted Kennedy with Aides and big colorful graphic posters.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Moon Adamant: i agree to adjourn
Claude Desmoulins: Three bills isn’t bad given all the ceremony.
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: August 26, 2006

Meeting on 2006-08-26
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I call this meeting to order
Claude Desmoulins: Touch the document box for agenda etc.
Claude Desmoulins: OK, first back to franchulates.
Claude Desmoulins: I made some changes based on comments from last meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: Do these address the concerns everyone raised.
Patroklus Murakami: this is different from the original proposal that pel posted on the forums, yes?
Claude Desmoulins: The new material is under 3)
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Patroklus Murakami: is this the first chance we’ve had to see it?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Claude Desmoulins: sorry,
Patroklus Murakami: np claude 🙂 jUst wanted to be clear
Sudane Erato: well… it still uses the word “Sell” in descrbing how the City transfers the land to the Holder
Sudane Erato: and that is not accurate…
Jon Seattle: Oh, I have somewhat of an emergency Item, requested my Rubai this morning.
Sudane Erato: it must clearly be “Rent”
Ashcroft Burnham: Or “lease”?
Claude Desmoulins: Good point.
Sudane Erato: or the whole concept collpses
Sudane Erato: ok…
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as a friendly amendment if there’s no objection.
Sudane Erato: just not “Sell” as commonly understood
Sudane Erato: sure
Justice Soothsayer: thanks for taking this on in Pel’s absence, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else?
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll look at Rubaiyat’s emergency item once we finish with this.
Jon Seattle: Can we table this item until we have time to discuss it with our group and study it?
Patroklus Murakami: oh dear! chat lag. i’m not seeing any show up
Moon Adamant: yes… i would like to look more carefully to the review
Sudane Erato: me neither
Moon Adamant: some chat lag here as well
Claude Desmoulins: I suppose another two weeks won’t kill it.
Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t see claude’s last set of words
Patroklus Murakami: k, np 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What’s Rubaiyat’s emergency item?
Jon Seattle: Ah, Rubai tells me that he has no permissions on the MoCa?, and further that the building is still owned by the builder who is out of touch.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: thats true
Jon Seattle: He has been trying desparatly to get in touch with that person.
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: does anyone here have a contact for keltrien?
Sudane Erato: i think we should delete it and rebuild
Claude Desmoulins: I have an email address somewhere.
Sudane Erato: yes… I do too
Sudane Erato: but he has not answered
Ashcroft Burnham: Is there still a keen-ness to have a MoCA in Neufreistadt, then?
Moon Adamant: ah!
Claude Desmoulins: I’d really rather not pay for the building again.
Ashcroft Burnham: I have to say, the current building looks terribly out of place.
Patroklus Murakami: i second that sudane. it does not sit well with the theme inside the city walls
Ashcroft Burnham: Maybe it’s something that’d be better in Colonia Nova?
Moon Adamant: definetely not
Claude Desmoulins: My impression is that CN will be more tightly themed than NFS
Ashcroft Burnham: After all, we have some kind of art gallery in Neufriestadt already now in the form of Das Joy Phim Haus.
Justice Soothsayer doubts that contemporary art fits an ancient roman theme any better than bavarian
Moon Adamant: Colonia Nova can’t hold another prim .)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: and exactly justice
Ashcroft Burnham: Maybe a franchulate, then?
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, the MoCa? is also an independant organization with the cooperative as only one element.
Moon Adamant: i think the MoCA, which is a very nice building, should preferably be moved to another location – but the problem is how to move it
Claude Desmoulins: I understand Rubaiyat’s concern but why not submit a bill through the usual method to authorize the deletion?
Ashcroft Burnham: Maybe, if it’s to be in Neufreistadt at all, it should be in the modernist area by the bridge?
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t see any good place for it to move to.
Moon Adamant: well, not just a deletion issue Claude
Sudane Erato: but it can ONLY be moved or altered…
Moon Adamant: if you delete it, what replaces it? how?
Sudane Erato: if we can locate Leltrien
Sudane Erato: Keltrien
Moon Adamant: exactly sudane
Claude Desmoulins: Since we seem unable to do that…
Sudane Erato: yes
Justice Soothsayer: why is this an emergency?
Claude Desmoulins: ….delete and rebuild may be the only option.
Sudane Erato: well…
Claude Desmoulins: That was sortof my question.
Moon Adamant: then we must discuss if if we are going to delete it, and how to rebuild it
Sudane Erato: if we really do have sustained energy to organize a MoCA program
Ashcroft Burnham: If we rebuild, I suggest that it go somewhere else.
Sudane Erato: then it is an emergency
Moon Adamant: Justice, the MoCa? has never fully functioned because of troublesome quirks like this
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Gwyn
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Gwyn 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn
Sudane Erato: hi Gywn! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all, sorry for being soooo late
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: so, it never really had a fair chance
Jon Seattle: I understand from Rubai that his group has immedeate plans for development and that this is getting in the way of them doing anything in that direction.
Moon Adamant: hiya Gwynnie .)
Claude Desmoulins: It’s all rather irregular.
Moon Adamant: indeed jon
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever I may think of the build or its placement intra muros…
Moon Adamant: The MoCA trust is there and want to do work on it
Claude Desmoulins: ….I’d like some public discussion and awareness before we up and delet it.
Claude Desmoulins: *delete
Moon Adamant: i agree to that
Sudane Erato: i agree
Ashcroft Burnham: That does make sense.
Jon Seattle: Yes. I agree too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn certainly agrees
Ashcroft Burnham: But I do hope eventually to have a better view from my back window 😉
Sudane Erato: haha
Claude Desmoulins: I would suggest that someone ought draft a bill at least authorizing the deletion of the current build.
Jon Seattle: But I do want to make one point, that the issue of developing such institutions is not secondary to our role here.
Jon Seattle: I will ask Rubai to do that.
Claude Desmoulins: As a chartered group, let the moCA folk figure out how they wantto rebuild.
Ashcroft Burnham: We could just repeal the act authorising the MoCA, couldn’t we?
Claude Desmoulins: We want MoCA, just not the building
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, I see, yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: the existence of the MoCA is an asset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: yes, we want MoCA
Ashcroft Burnham: Just a better building in a better place?
Gwyneth Llewelyn searches in her Inventory for a “We Want MoCA” T-shirt
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: so may we setthis aside?
Jon Seattle: Ah, Gwyn, I would love one of those.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I need to do them first :))
Sudane Erato: :))
Jon Seattle: Yes, we should ask the MoCa? group to draft a bill.
Moon Adamant: if keltrien can be found, and i do recommend that a date be set to abandon all attempts
Claude Desmoulins: excuse me
Claude Desmoulins: three year old
Patroklus Murakami: awww 🙂
Patroklus Murakami smiles at claude and gets broody 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: a good solution can be to move the moca outside teh walls into public land and give it a park surrounding
Ashcroft Burnham: I agree 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The Western Highlands wuld probably be the best place for it – the modernist area.
Moon Adamant: but i think we must define a limit in time to attempt contacting Keltrien, really
Sudane Erato: i’m of the opinion that it should stay where it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15 seconds? 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol Gwyn
Jon Seattle: Yes, though I think the group may want to make more fudimental changes in the structure.
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Moon Adamant: and why Sudane?
Moon Adamant: it does ruin a bit the skyline there…
Ashcroft Burnham: Sudane: you don’t have it looming out of your back windows 😉
Sudane Erato: the MoCA is an urban institution
Jon Seattle listens to Sudane
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: and it should best be “central”
Moon Adamant: what if then pulling into altenstadt area?
Sudane Erato: to our energy
Sudane Erato: hmm…
Sudane Erato: that would be better
Moon Adamant: it is a lower level…
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, it’d be just as easy to find in the Western Highlands as behind Old Altenburg.
Sudane Erato: it could be found, yes
Sudane Erato: but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn has really no suggestion as to the place
Claude Desmoulins: Can we waitfor a bill and see what the MoCA group wants to do?
Sudane Erato: such arrangements also have “symbolic” substance
Ashcroft Burnham: That could also work 🙂
Sudane Erato: I agree
Moon Adamant smiles at sudane
Claude Desmoulins: OK. On to the first of many proposed amendments.
Sudane Erato: the wishes of the MoCA group should be considered first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All I can say is that the artistic movements in SL are finally “taking off”, so to speak, and we’re the only ones having an institution, planning now the *fifth* building, and still he haven’t done anything in 18 months about the MoCA
Jon Seattle: I agree, and also agree with Sudane about the MoCa? being symbolic and important.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very much so, Jon!
Claude Desmoulins: This grows from Gwyn’s comments at last meeting.
Moon Adamant: i agree with Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, excellent proposal, Claude
Moon Adamant: but we must have it functional!
Claude Desmoulins: It merely states that the Guilds fiance powers are enumerated, I’m taking Ash’s language suggestion as a friendly amendment.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Ashcroft Burnham: It was so intended 🙂
Sudane Erato: may I ask what concern this bill addresses?
Claude Desmoulins: If we wish to enumerate addtional powers we could ad them in
Claude Desmoulins looks at Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: *add
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that this is an attempt to transfer those powers to the RA so it can dispose of them as it pleases.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly, that currently you cannot delegate financial powers into an executive, since those powers are interpreted as being on the Guild,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thus only the Guild should be able to delegate them.
Jon Seattle: Not a legitimate way to change the organizational structure of our coorperative.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, both Justice and Ashcroft, I believe, have correctly pointed out that we should take a more literalistic approach on the Constitution,
Sudane Erato: and if the Guild is constitutionally replaced?
Justice Soothsayer: yes, this enables us to move forward on creating an executive
Moon Adamant: exactly Sudane
Jon Seattle: No, it does not, Justice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, to clarify the issue once and for all, this amendment woukld clearly state that the Guild only has the financial powers that are stated in the Constitition, and end of story 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Whatever we do about an executive, the Guild is useful in other respects.
Sudane Erato: but I suspect you caanot create an executive branch…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, this amendment does not address that (also I tend to agree with Jon ? it does not “allow to move forward on creating an executive”)
Sudane Erato: without replacing the Guild’s constitutional powers
Ashcroft Burnham: Sudane: what exactly are the Guild’s constitutional powers?
Sudane Erato: :))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just clarifies what financial powers are, indeed, bestowed upon the Guild ? only those stated on the Constitution. And nothing else!
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Ashcroft Burnham: The text of the constitution limits them to bringing impeachment proceedings and vetoing revenue bills.
Moon Adamant: i think we’re adding to the constitutional confusion here…
Sudane Erato: :))
Jon Seattle listens to Moon
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, if you wish to assign additional finance powers to the Guild you could propose an amendment to this.
Moon Adamant: there is also a proposal for amenment that clearly establishes an executive branch
Jon Seattle: We have proposed an alternative amendment that does what this does. Lets move on and talk about that.
Moon Adamant: amendment*, even
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, there are two competing proposals for amendments that establish executives 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: this issue really can’t be separated out from the need to establish and executive. i’m pleased to see that the dpu have conceded this can’t take place without a constl amendment
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, one amendment, one bill 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Ash 🙂
Moon Adamant: indeed pat
Justice Soothsayer: I think the proposed amendment is in the nature of a substitute to my proposed bill
Patroklus Murakami: maybe we should discuss those proposals rather than this amend which simply tinkers with the system and does not resolve the issue of substance
Moon Adamant: yes pat
Ashcroft Burnham: Presumably, the agenda entails discussing both?
Moon Adamant: it is really a substance issue that we must discuss
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, the agenda order is a smidgen unhelpful in respect of discussing the executive…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: i agree ash 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: …the Guild Finance Powers amendment goes together with the Burgermeister Bill, and is the DPU’s combined proposal for an executive.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm. Seems to be the strategy, yes 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The Executive Branch Amendment Bill is the CDSF’s competing proposal.
Ashcroft Burnham: Would it not be more helpful if the merits of the two were discussed at once, head-to-head?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, it looks that way. but i haven\t seen anyone confrim that 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: *confirm
Moon Adamant waits for LRA
Jon Seattle: Indeed. However, the CSDF proposal has been drafted in consultation with Claude and Justice and addresses both of their concerns.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: If we pas the CSDF proposal…
Claude Desmoulins: …what then is the disposition of the Guild
Claude Desmoulins: Can we also look at Sudanes TEM bill here?
Ashcroft Burnham: The phrase “doctrine of implied repeal” comes to mind… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn leans back and enjoys 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: i suggest we move right to the discussion of the CSDF proposal
Jon Seattle: agrees with Justuce on that.
Ashcroft Burnham: Have people had a chance to look at my technical comments on that Billyet?
Moon Adamant: agrees
Moon Adamant: yes, we did
Jon Seattle: Indeed Ashcroft
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: So, can anybody tell me what exactly “Neufreistadt-CDS” is?
Ashcroft Burnham: Will it become “Neufriestadt-Colonia? Nova-CDS” when we expand?
Justice Soothsayer: you are in the middle of it!
Ashcroft Burnham: No, I’m in Neufreistadt.
Ashcroft Burnham: The CDS doesn’t exist as such yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ashcroft
Sudane Erato: hehe… could someone identify which bill… we’re talking about???
Sudane Erato: i’m muddled 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: But waht about the TEM?
Ashcroft Burnham: But when it does, it will be conceptually distinct from Neufriestadt.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, please, some order here 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol sudane
Jon Seattle: Sudane, it is called: Proposed Executive Amendment
Jon Seattle: in the document box.
Sudane Erato: ahhhh
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: thx
Claude Desmoulins: We can’t just ignore it in setting up whatever executive comes along.
Jon Seattle smiles at Sudane
Sudane Erato: my concern re the TEM/TEO
Ashcroft Burnham: Ignore what, Claude? I think that I’ve missed somethign..
Sudane Erato: is simply that whatever is approved…
Claude Desmoulins: The tem/teo
Sudane Erato: be compatible with what I have proposed
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: indeed, we will need to harmonize the executive powers with those of the estate manager
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: We agree that the tresury also needs to be integerated into the constitution, but it does not actually contradict this amendment I think.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Jon.
Sudane Erato: if thats the case… then fine
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course, if the Guild Finance Reform Bill (or whatever it’s called) is passed, we could have a non-constiutional amndment bill stating, “There shall be created the office of Treasure of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators….
Ashcroft Burnham: …the Treasuer shall have the power…”
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that at this point there should be presented an order for discussing/voting these three bills on the table…
Moon Adamant: please… yes, Gwyn!
Claude Desmoulins: We shouldn’t do an exec that doesn’t address the TEM. imho.
Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn
Justice Soothsayer: Jon, I have a mathematical question about your proposed amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: “Lowest integer”?
Jon Seattle: Ah, yes. The floor function?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Jon Seattle: Comes from all that computer science in school.. 🙂
Justice Soothsayer never majored in math
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: I had suggested “nearest whole nu mber” as a clearer alternative.
Gwyneth Llewelyn tends to agree with Ash on that.
Jon Seattle: Ah, but Ashcroft it is not at all then same as we grow.
Justice Soothsayer: Exactly how many of our 5 votes would it take to sack the executive?
Patroklus Murakami: does it mean you round to the nearest integer or automatically round down?
Patroklus Murakami: yes justice, that’s the key qn
Ashcroft Burnham: What do you mean, HJon?
Jon Seattle: The floor function, simply means removing any remainder. I can live with a nearest integer approach however.
Justice Soothsayer: Jon, that still doesn’t answer my question. How many votes would it take to sack? 4? 3?
Patroklus Murakami: aah! i thought so. so it would be 3/5 votes then?
Jon Seattle: Three.
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks
Patroklus Murakami: and if only four members are present (like today?)
Justice Soothsayer: Still 3.
Ashcroft Burnham: 3/5 is 0.6. 4/5 is 0.8. 2/3 is 0.6 (recurring).
Claude Desmoulins: But it takes three to appoint.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, the nearest whole number to 2/3 in a set of 5 is 3/5
Claude Desmoulins: I see some merit in requiring more votes to sack than to appoint.
Jon Seattle: Well, one option then, is to use the ceiling function to sack.
Claude Desmoulins: Ten the Chancellor isn’t just an extension of the RA majority.
Ashcroft Burnham: Or how about “nearest whole number plus one”?
Jon Seattle: the ceiling function is to always round up to the next heigher integer.
Justice Soothsayer: Or we could simply say a majority to appoint, and a 2/3rd vote to sack
Jon Seattle: Justice, or that.
Justice Soothsayer: which would mean, in our present size, 3 votes to appoint, 4 votes to sack
Justice Soothsayer: for those of us less mathematically inclined
Ashcroft Burnham: But the nearest whole number to 2/3 of 5 is 3 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant sighs too
Jon Seattle: Yes, of course Ash.
Claude Desmoulins: currently the bill says only that the RA appoints.
Ashcroft Burnham: So we’d still have to have a ceiling function or a “nearest whole number plus one” to have 4/5 being required for anythign.
Patroklus Murakami: since we now understand jon’s proposal on this, is it acceptable as currently drafted?
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, assuming that we are now in order to discuss the CSDF proposal, I move that we amend the proposed amendment to delete “rounded to lower integer” in section 7.
Jon Seattle: Claude, yes, 2/3 is not needed to appoint.
Claude Desmoulins: Could this lead in a multi candidate process tpo an election by plurality?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh…. you’ve lost me…?
Moon Adamant: pardon?
Patroklus Murakami: the RA can surely decide on its owne rules of procedure claude in those circumstnaces
Jon Seattle: Agrees with Justice’s proposal. Perhaps replace it with rounded to the nearest integer?
Patroklus Murakami: the only proviso is that a majority agree with teh fina choice
Justice Soothsayer: just delete “rounded to lowest integer” and it will be clear that a 2/3d vote is needed to sack.
Claude Desmoulins: As long as we’re clear on that.
Claude Desmoulins: I would prefer that amendment Justice.
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, the easiest way of doing it, I’ve just realised, is simply to say “at least two thirds”.
Justice Soothsayer: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ashcroft Burnham: That makes it very clear: 3/5 < 2/3 whereas 4/5 > 2/3
Jon Seattle: not too bad Ashcroft.
Patroklus Murakami: yes ash, that works brilliantly
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: Are there any comments on the other suggestions that I made in my technical comments forum post?
Claude Desmoulins: If we approve this. what becomes of the Guild?
Jon Seattle: As the amendment says,
Justice Soothsayer: For the record, I support the sunset provision.
Jon Seattle: 9. Any power or responsibility assigned to the Artisan’s Collective by the constitution and precedent that overlaps those provided to the Chancellor in this amendment will be assigned to the Chancellor.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice: did you read my comments on the problems created by sunset clauses in my forum post?
Justice Soothsayer: It is a nice compromise that keeps the guild in place if the sun sets on the executive.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes I saw that. What does 9 leave to the Guild?
Ashcroft Burnham: But the clause makes the sun set by default – what’s the reasoning for that?
Jon Seattle: Ah, the Guild does do other things.. really it becomes an independant citizen’s organization.
Moon Adamant: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Bu then why does it need to be enshrined in the constitution?
Claude Desmoulins: *But
Justice Soothsayer: and if we don’t reauthorise the executive in 2 terms, we’ll need the guild again
Ashcroft Burnham: As I explained in the forum, Clause 9 makes the constitution a mess: it requires an undertanding of all the vast precedent on the Guild’s powers not expressly stated in the constitution to be understood before the constitutional powers of the Chancellor.
Ashcroft Burnham: …can be understood.
Jon Seattle: Claude, exactly. That is why 9.
Jon Seattle: Claude, would you like to propose new wording?
Claude Desmoulins: It seems a lot of stuff to keep in the constitution as a fallback on the sunset clause.
Claude Desmoulins: Hard to think right now.
Moon Adamant: oh, i see your point
Ashcroft Burnham: I still don’t understand why a sunset clause is a godo idea.
Jon Seattle: Yes, Justice requested the sunset clause and we agreed.
Claude Desmoulins: Three year old is now on my lap as I type/
Justice Soothsayer: it forces the RA to review the idea of having an executive
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: And causes it to disintegrate if there’s disagreement.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why should failure be presumed?
Justice Soothsayer: and is a compromise between those of us who would create an executive via an easily amended bill v a constitutional amendment
Claude Desmoulins: Which is OK, I guess, if we leave the current AC language in the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, Ashcroft, let’s try the reverse argument… what prevents the RA to revoke the proposal after 3 months?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing at all.
Claude Desmoulins: THe evaporation would then not create a vacuum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, from a political point of view, a sunset clause means for the citizens: we’re willing to try this out and see if it works.
Ashcroft Burnham: Nothing, except that it would have to take the initiative to do so, and would, if it had any sense, make proper de-transitional provisions, rather than just repealing the whole amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Claude, I agree.
Ashcroft Burnham: What happens to exercises of authority by the Chancellor in the interim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a *political* issue, Ashcroft. The way you explain and argue this proposal, with or without a sunset clause, is different.
Justice Soothsayer thanks Jon for incorporating my suggestions
Ashcroft Burnham: If the constitutional provision giving her or him the power to do those things is removed, are the acts retrospectively rendered void?
Justice Soothsayer and supports the proposed amendment
Ashcroft Burnham: Sunset clauses create vast instability that is quite dangerous.
Jon Seattle: Thanks Justice for making those suggestions!
Claude Desmoulins: Is this the number amendment?
Moon Adamant: inded, thanks Justice .)
Ashcroft Burnham: If something is going to be undone, it needs to be unpicked carefully rather than just evaporating automatically.
Justice Soothsayer: the CSDF proposed amendment posted on the forum (as amended today)
Moon Adamant: well, those are considerations, ashcroft, that can be discussed here… just the place
Patroklus Murakami: it’s called ‘proposed Executive amendment’ from the box of notecards on the table
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s what I’m doing – explaing why sunset clauses are bad for any provisions that create an ongoing bureaurocracy
Ashcroft Burnham: .
Claude Desmoulins: Yes I’m trying to kee track of which amendments to the executive amendment have been proosed.
Justice Soothsayer: just the one on math, so far
Ashcroft Burnham: I think that it would be very unwise to pass this bill witout carefull regard to all the technical comments that I made on the forum.
Ashcroft Burnham: Careful, even..
Patroklus Murakami: yes, on parts 6 and 7 remove ‘(rounded to the lower integer)’ and replace ‘a’ with ‘at least a’ in front of ‘two thirds’
Jon Seattle agrees with Pat
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: let’s vote on that amendment.
Moon Adamant: indeed, that clears the number issue
Claude Desmoulins: that Pat just indicated.
Jon Seattle is in favor
Moon Adamant is in favour
Claude Desmoulins is in favor
Justice Soothsayer is in favor
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Now back to our discusions of Sunsets 🙂
Moon Adamant smiles at Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *yawn*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: tsk Gwyn!
Jon Seattle laughs
Ashcroft Burnham: We have very pretty sunsets in Neufreistadt.
Sudane Erato: manners! 🙂
Moon Adamant shakes her head at gwyn .)
Justice Soothsayer: Ashcroft raises a good point – what happens to acts of the executive if the sun does set? I think the answer is that there is a presumption of constitutionality
Gwyneth Llewelyn is in a mean mood today… comes from only 5 hours of sleeping 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Poor Gwyn.
Ashcroft Burnham: I still don’t see why failure is the default.
Ashcroft Burnham: One can require review without defaulting to failure in the event of disagreement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreeable and understandable.
Claude Desmoulins: The politicla crux of this is that some are not ready to make this a sweeping permanent structural change.
Claude Desmoulins: Another thing I thought of…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, thus a compromise has to be met…
Ashcroft Burnham: It is best not to make it at all than to make it temporarily.
Justice Soothsayer: It is a question of math (says the non-math major). It will take 2/3rds to keep this in a constitution.
Moon Adamant: indeed, that has been one of the issues in this long discussion
Ashcroft Burnham: Compromises that are the worst of both worlds are not good compromises.
Claude Desmoulins: Could the whole government be gridlocked if the RA can’t agree on a Chancellor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a bad point, Claude!
Ashcroft Burnham: That is possible.
Ashcroft Burnham: You could make a requirement that the bill be *debated* again.
Patroklus Murakami: i can sympathise with ashs position. but in RL messier compromises are made and life still goes on
Ashcroft Burnham: That would provide for mandatory review without presumed failure.
Jon Seattle: Claude, 2/3 is not required for apointment. If fact the RA can set its own rules.
Patroklus Murakami: if i may give an example?…
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: people often make bad compromises. Taht doesn’t mean that we should make bad compromises.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon, thanks, I was asking Moon about the same issue.
Moon Adamant: Claude, i think, like in RL, that political negotaitions wil be maintained so that you’ll always have a chancellor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, assuming there is a majority party, they will very likely agree,
Patroklus Murakami: we often finalise EU legistlation in the middle of the night, on the basis of a compromise, in order to reach agreement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or not, they’ll very likely establish a majority coalition anyway, soooo
Ashcroft Burnham: Why, then, make the converse possible?
Moon Adamant: indeed Gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: our laywers hate teh muddle that results. but it still (largely) works
Ashcroft Burnham: It is better not to agree than to agree on something that everyone agrees is worse than the status quo.
Claude Desmoulins: Any appontment process that does not require the support of a majority of the RA for the final appointee…
Ashcroft Burnham: I wouldn’t agree with you about it working 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: there are policitcal qns here too, and teh need for comporomise is part of that
Claude Desmoulins: …gives a Chancellorwithout much legitimacy,
Ashcroft Burnham: Who here actually beleives that presumed failure is good in and of itself?
Ashcroft Burnham: People keep making references to other people not being “ready” for a change – I can’t see how people who are not ready for one change would be any more redy for a change and then a change back three months later.
Ashcroft Burnham: Who are these mythical people?
Jon Seattle: Claude, in general the appointment would require a majority unless for some odd reason the RA agrees otherwise.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Ashcroft Burnham: The other question is what happens to the funds appropriated to the office of Chancellor if the sun sets.
Ashcroft Burnham: And monies already expended.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You want names & addresses, Ash? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: And monies committed but not expended.
Moon Adamant: Claude, like Gwyn says, it will be supported for a coalition… ok, coalitions are more dynamic as regards constant negtiation – but that is not a bad thing per se
Ashcroft Burnham: And contracts made…
Moon Adamant: quite on teh contrary sometimes .)
Ashcroft Burnham: What about community events that were part-way through being planned?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d definitely feel more comfortable if there would be no changes back in time,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie no retroactive deleting of executive acts
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: that still leaves the problem of things that were in the middle of being done.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this has also been part of the “tradition” here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not at all, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA is sovereign
Ashcroft Burnham: What about contracts entered into by the Chancelor but not executed?
Ashcroft Burnham: Or partially executed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They can always pick things half-way through and place it on someone else’s hands.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And this happens *all the time* in NFS!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Think MoCA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: think event planning.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s precisely why we should make sure that it doesn’t happen any more.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All half-done things because the process was interrupted. We survive living with that.
Ashcroft Burnham: Our experience of things going wrong in the past.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash ? it depends mostly on *people*
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, if the exec were to disappear responsibility would revert to the RA, who would have made the decision to ‘sunset’ the exec in the 1st place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Pat.
Ashcroft Burnham: Just because we can manage when things go wrong doesn’t mean that we should deliberately make thigns more likely to go wrong.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh come on, Ash 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The RA wouldn’t necessarily have made a positive decision to terminate the executive: on the proposal as it stands, the executive would be terminated even if most of the RA thought it should not be.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re predicting the future, and seeing it dark and bleak,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: what about some optimism instead? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m seeing the *possibliity* for it to be dark and bleak, which possibility I’m emploring you to eliminate.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, estimate a probability of that possibility to happen
Ashcroft Burnham: Non-trivial.
Patroklus Murakami: and some recognition that politics involves compromise and the need to find a solution all can sign up to? even if it’s not perfect?
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s enough.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: I don’t follow your reasoning. The thing that we agree to must be athing that is good in itself.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously I have to agree with Pat…
Justice Soothsayer: i think we’ve had a good discussion about this, but am ready to vote
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s nothing wrong with compromise as long as the product of that compromise is workable.
Ashcroft Burnham: This is not.
Jon Seattle also agrees with Pat
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Ashcroft Burnham: At least require only a simple majority to retiain it?
Claude Desmoulins: Ash your concerns are noted,
Ashcroft Burnham: Does the sudden silence mean that you’re peparing to vote, or are there technical problmes?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Moon Adamant nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Jon Seattle: yes.
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Jon Seattle: votes for the amendment
Sudane Erato: please forgive my absence… desparate for more coffee
Moon Adamant votes yes for the amendment
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn warns also that she’s having some issues with her laptops power adapter
Ashcroft Burnham: (Is this the amendment to the amendment or the whole executive amendent?)
Claude Desmoulins: whole thing.
Justice Soothsayer: i withdraw the Burgermeister bill.
Claude Desmoulins: Were there other amendments to the amendment on the floor?
Ashcroft Burnham: What about all the other technical concerns that I raised on the forum?
Ashcroft Burnham: There are lots of them, and they’re all important.
Ashcroft Burnham: I consider them all to be friendly amendments.
Patroklus Murakami: i think the vote has been taken, ash
Patroklus Murakami: without them
Ashcroft Burnham: Why weren’t they discusseD?
Claude Desmoulins: Jon were there amendments of Ash’s that you consider friendly.
Jon Seattle: Ah, most seemed to me to be about wording.. nothing critical. I say we move ahead.
Ashcroft Burnham: Wording is critical.
Claude Desmoulins: We need to be clear about what we just voted fo.
Sudane Erato: yes
Justice Soothsayer: We voted in favor of the PRoposed Executive Amendment, as amended by deleting “rounded to lower integer”
Claude Desmoulins: I think the section nine is covered by our wanting to keep Guild as bacjup.
Ashcroft Burnham: What about “Neufreistadt-CDS”?
Ashcroft Burnham: What about “each month”?
Justice Soothsayer: I have awakening child issues (the RL one, not my inner one) just like Claude.
Jon Seattle: I would point out two things here. One is that we have already voted. The other is that while we do want to listen to citizen’s proposals, we are still the RA. I would like to look to Justice and Gwyn for specific suggestions if changes are needed.
Claude Desmoulins: And the preamble establishes the chancellory.
Ashcroft Burnham: What about the scope of the anti-veto powers?
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course you have the power to regulate your own procedure and vote on things, I just don’t understand why those issues weren’t even discussed.
Claude Desmoulins: Ouch your’re right.
Claude Desmoulins: I know this is irregular.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d loke to propose an amendment to the constitution amending what we just passed to reflect Ash’s suggestions for 6…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Claude Desmoulins: ….less the phrase rounded to the nearest whole number
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: i must say this is becoming very confusing… 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – that’s redundant, actually, isn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: Right now a veto override is by simple majority, I believe
Claude Desmoulins: de facto
Claude Desmoulins: since 2/3 rounded down is 3
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, no… the “at least two thirds” means that it’s not rounded down 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: right but that’s not in as it now stands
Ashcroft Burnham: As I said, 3/5 < 2/3, whereas 4/5 > 2/3
Claude Desmoulins: si it?
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh, the unamended version with “lowest integer”? Yes, Isee.
Claude Desmoulins: is it?
Jon Seattle: /em scrolls back to Pat’s suggestion
Gwyneth Llewelyn ‘s brain melts down.

Ashcroft Burnham: May I also suggest that we change “Neufriestadt-CDS” to “The Confederation of Democratic Simulators”?
Claude Desmoulins: Can we vote on this. It makes the eto override require 2/3 +1 rather than 2/3 -1
Moon Adamant would like to point out that she has Rl work in 2 hours and can’t possibly be here for much longer
Claude Desmoulins: I owuld rather wait to do that until we agree on what cds is.
Claude Desmoulins: My kid’s up as well.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s what the Judiciary BIll seeks to do 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: But, Claude, if that’s your concern, then it should read just “Neufreistadt”, to be amended later.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment to 6/…
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: Claude, can you read the amended text.
Jon Seattle: as proposed
Justice Soothsayer: quickly, please 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Can’t cut and paste
Ashcroft Burnham: 6. The Chancellor shall have the power to veto any act of the Representative Assembly, except any bill to remove the Chancellor from office. The Representative Assembly may override a veto with a vote by at least a two-thirds majority
Moon Adamant: ouch, sorryfor that 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: That.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, actually…
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: It should be…
Ashcroft Burnham: 6. The Chancellor shall have the power to veto any act of the Representative Assembly, except any bill to remove the Chancellor from office. The Representative Assembly may override such a veto with a vote by at least a two-thirds majority
Ashcroft Burnham: The word “such” is important 🙂
Jon Seattle: I vote in favor.
Claude Desmoulins: There we go.
Moon Adamant: voting now?
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: Moon?
Moon Adamant votes yes
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: I have to move adjournment here.
Jon Seattle: Thanks!
Moon Adamant: ok claude
Justice Soothsayer: thanks, claude
Sudane Erato: i must go too
Ashcroft Burnham: What about the “Neufreistadt-CDS” issue?
Moon Adamant: and thanks 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forst, can I make a short announcement?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *First
Jon Seattle listens to Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: No time, perhasp write a bill /amendment for next meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: totally RA-unrelated
Moon Adamant listens to gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Chili Carson, who is establishing the Chamber of Commerce,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: will be available to talk with us tomorrow at 4 PM SL time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane asked me to try to handle a meeting with her,
Moon Adamant: aaah, very good
Sudane Erato: yes… great!
Claude Desmoulins: Ok. and we are adjouned.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s good news. i’ll try to make it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that we could provide her with some insights on what we have done so far, what caveats and problems we’ve found
Moon Adamant: i amy have stopped working by then
The meeting closed at 5:39 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 09, 2006

Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: there is lovely little hailstorm outside my window right now
Patroklus Murakami: bright and sunny in london town 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s nothing like a hailstorm to pass the time whilst waiting for quoracy…
Patroklus Murakami: lol ash
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ve been looking into Lee’s endeavours with his LindeX rival.
Ashcroft Burnham: Still not set up yet, but that notecard in his shop is very interesting.
Justice Soothsayer: I think we should start even without a quorum, since the 7 day discussion & vote procedure is in effect
Justice Soothsayer: we would need a quorum to decide anything, but we have already decided to decide via email!
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, doesn’t seem to be much choice.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s odd that Alaisi and Sudane aren’t here, though.
Justice Soothsayer: please touch the recorder if you havent done so already
Moon Adamant: indeed
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Done.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: and done too
Patroklus Murakami: done
Justice Soothsayer: Claude asked me to chair the meeting in his absence
Justice Soothsayer: since we will have a transcript, anything you say will be sent to the absent RA members
Justice Soothsayer: Lets start with 5-3, the Franchulates bill
Moon Adamant: ok
Justice Soothsayer: this one has been on the agenda for some time
Justice Soothsayer: frankly, i’m not that familiar with it to be ablet o answer a lot of questions
Moon Adamant: yes, and the DPU has revised it already, according to what has been discussed here
Moon Adamant: well, we feel that the revised text still doesn’t meet all questions raised
Justice Soothsayer: what issues are outstanding?
Moon Adamant: either here at the RA and by citizens at the foruns
Moon Adamant: we feel that there is still a need for clarity in some points
Moon Adamant: namely citizenship and some kind of definition about the property of the franchulated land
Moon Adamant: but i was thinking here that maybe that could be rewritten with reference to 5-11 Bill
Moon Adamant: which we are prepared to vote for
Justice Soothsayer: yes, citizenship definitions is on the table in the judiciary discussion
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m not sure that that’d resolve Moon’s query, though.
Ashcroft Burnham: The new definition of citizenship would be that a citizen is a person who “holds land under the Confederation of Democratic Simulators”.
Moon Adamant listens
Ashcroft Burnham: Specifically, “A citizen of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a resident of SecondLife? who has been granted title to any land by the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and who holds title under the Confederation of Democratic Simulators
Ashcroft Burnham: … for as long as he or she holds such title.”
Patroklus Murakami: it’s never really been clear to me what problem this proposal solves. i’m not fundamentally opposed to it. but i’d like to know what happens when things go wrong
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi aliasi 🙂
Moon Adamant: hello Aliasi 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: (cry pardon for lateness, folks – this is dark o’clock in the morning for me.)
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: we were just discussing the franchulates proposal
Ashcroft Burnham: I think that Moon’s query boils down to this point:…
Patroklus Murakami: for example, would the cds then have responsibility for ‘policing’ the franchulated land?
Patroklus Murakami: what would that mean?
Ashcroft Burnham: …if a citizen of the CDS is a person who is granted title to land *by* the CDS, the Franculates proposal as it currently stands means that only the Franculate holders are citizens.
Ashcroft Burnham: And they have to be citizens already.
Ashcroft Burnham: And furthermore they can’t sublet.
Ashcroft Burnham: So it doesn’t actually enable us to expand our citizenship.
Moon Adamant: yes… it’s a bit of a vicious circle there
Patroklus Murakami: no, it doesn’t. but it does allow us to expand territory i suppose
Ashcroft Burnham: So, the question is: are franculates a way of expanding our citizenship, or just a way of letting existing citizens get mainland land more cheaply?
Justice Soothsayer: we do have microplots for citizenship, i think
Patroklus Murakami: yes justice, and those are available with or without the franchulate proposal. i’m not sure what this adds
Justice Soothsayer: nicely stated question, Ashcroft.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the latter, i think ash 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: since we are operating on the 7-day discussion & email vote rule, any further discussion on this bill?
Moon Adamant: if teh franchulates are meant to be a way to exand our community, then some issues must be adressed, like Pat’s issue about policing
Moon Adamant: expand+
Moon Adamant: hmmm, none, besides what has already been discussed here
Justice Soothsayer: OK, lets move on to the Treasurer and Estate Owner proposals
Justice Soothsayer: Moon, did I understand you were in favor of the estate owner bill?
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: we have nothing against either 5-10 and 5-11
Moon Adamant: or*
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll just say that I think its important to have these roles defined before we select the new Chancellor, so he/she will know what positions are on the team.
Moon Adamant: indee
Moon Adamant: ndeed*
Justice Soothsayer: OK, on to Chancellor discussion, if there is nothing further on 5-10 and 5-11.
Moon Adamant: nothing more on those
Justice Soothsayer: Pat and Ali, thanks for coming this morning
Patroklus Murakami: you’re welcome 🙂
Moon Adamant smiles at pat and Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender stifles a sleepyyawn. “I tried.”
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: Poor tired muffin.
Moon Adamant: 😀
Justice Soothsayer: you’ve each had a chance to say something in the forums, but i’d also like to open up the floor for comments from each of you.
Moon Adamant listens
Patroklus Murakami: should we flip a coin? or would aliasi like to choose to go first or second? I don’t mind 🙂
Justice Soothsayer flips the coin
Aliasi Stonebender: If you’d like to go first Pat, I don’t mind. Need another few moments.
Justice Soothsayer: and it is Heads!
Justice Soothsayer: so Pat, its all yours.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i prepared some remarks. feel free to shut me up if i go on too long!
Patroklus Murakami: I am keen to take on the challenge of this new position because I think it will be vital to the development of Neufreistadt and the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. I also think I have the skills necessary to make it a success.
Patroklus Murakami: I’d like to say what I think the priorities are for the first Chancellor’s term and then why I think I’d make a good job of it.
Patroklus Murakami: The first priority is to reinvigorate the process of building Colonia Nova.
Patroklus Murakami: This is not meant as criticism of anyone involved in the Sim Planning Committee, but the process has stalled.
Patroklus Murakami: I think the new Chancellor needs to work with the SPC to develop a timetable for launch of Colonia Nova with key milestones (e.g. purchase of new sim, terraforming, sale of land, building and layout etc) identified and a project plan.
Patroklus Murakami: The second priority is to plan the next six months for Neufreistadt/CDS. This is the idea I put forward on the forums a few months ago.
Patroklus Murakami: The new Chancellor should develop a timetable for the next six months. This should include events e.g. Oktoberfest so that we know when things are coming up and can plan accordingly
Patroklus Murakami: But it should also include goals. We’re a very creative bunch and many ideas have been proposed for making our society better and learning from our past e.g. the establishment of a legal system, unifying the CDS websites and putting them under CDS contro
Patroklus Murakami: *control, learning lessons from the recent election, getting the MoCA operational.
Patroklus Murakami: We often lack follow-through though as projects are mooted and then not completed. I would set out concrete goals for completing projects over the next six months.
Patroklus Murakami: The timetable would also include planning for key community discussions e.g. What is our ‘mission’ now that we have achieved our initial goals? What kind of services should we offer? To our citizens? To all of Second Life?
Patroklus Murakami: Almost finished!
Patroklus Murakami: I think I have the skills to deliver this because this is one of the things I do in Real Life! I’m happy to elaborate on that if needed. But I think I’ve demonstrated that I have the skills to do this in Second Life as well.
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: I’ve been organising weekly meetings for some months now for the CSDF. That means putting together papers, sending out notices and preparing transcripts of meetings.
Patroklus Murakami: It also involves ensuring that people are focussed in meetings and that action points are clearly assigned to people and that these are followed up on.
Patroklus Murakami: These are the skills I’d like to bring to this post. I think whoever is successful will have to get people together, agree a common purpose and largely achieve their goals through others rather than doing all the work themselves.
Patroklus Murakami: Thank you for listening 🙂
Moon Adamant: thanks Pat .)
Ashcroft Burnham: (Sorry for premature clapping earlier)
Justice Soothsayer: thanks, Pat. Moon, any questions for PAt before we turn to Ali?
Fernando Book: HI all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi fernando
Fernando Book: Sorry for the interruption.
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Fernando, welcome
Moon Adamant: hello Fernando .)
Fernando Book: I’ve just bought a lot next to the MoCA
Moon Adamant: no questions, Justice 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Congratulations 🙂
Moon Adamant: oh, welcome then Fernando!
Justice Soothsayer: welcome again, Fernando!
Moon Adamant: wouldn’t you take a seat?
Fernando Book: Thansk.
Fernando Book: *thanks.
Justice Soothsayer: Ali, are you ready?
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: Certainly.
Justice Soothsayer: the floor is yours
Aliasi Stonebender: In many ways, Pat made most of the points I would have. Which, to me, shows how obvious the need for these things are.
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, crashed
Aliasi Stonebender: Colonia Nova is badly stalled. Hell, the relocation of Gwynethstrasse is badly stalled.
Moon Adamant: wb Pat
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Similarly, we used to hold severeal events – the Expo, the winter festival, and so forth – and we’ve been distracted, and we need to pick that back up. So, again, I say nothing new.
Aliasi Stonebender: So, I’ll submit my qualifications, since I can’t improve on stating the problem.
Aliasi Stonebender: Firstly, I have much practical experience in these matters. I’m not at all diminishing Pat’s experience in running the CSDF, but I did much of what the Chancellor would need to do in a de-facto position back when I was more involved with the government
Aliasi Stonebender: as some of you may recall.
Aliasi Stonebender: Secondly, some of you may know of the group Squidsoft Collective and our various projects, such as the sim of Suffugium. While we’re an artistic and creative group, not a government
Aliasi Stonebender: I assure you, some of the practical situations have been very, very similar.
Aliasi Stonebender: The second thing I think I bring to the table is my relative nonpartisianship. Most of you know I am a member of the DPU largely because I disagree with them less, and (a long-standing nettle of mine) those in a faction have greater control over
Aliasi Stonebender: who gets elected in NFS than those who do not.
Aliasi Stonebender: But that’s never stopped me from showing up at a CSDF meeting, or indeed any meeting of any green dots anywhere in the sim. I’m nosy. 😉
Moon Adamant: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: Go green dots!
Aliasi Stonebender: In summary, those are what I see as my qualifications for this job – and I say that because it certainly will be one..
Aliasi Stonebender: Any questions?
Ashcroft Burnham: May I ask a question to both candidates?
Justice Soothsayer: which of you will chop down the tree that appears to be growing out of my neighbor’s house?
Patroklus Murakami: i’d put that at the top of my todo list, justice 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll get an axe.
Justice Soothsayer: Ashcroft, your question?
Ashcroft Burnham: How much free time do you both have to devote to the chancellor position, and is that likely to diminish in the foreseeable future?
Patroklus Murakami: would u like me t answer first?
Justice Soothsayer: go ahead
Aliasi Stonebender: My own free time is holding steady. While I’m involved with both work and school, we’ve recently hired more people at my RL job so my free time has actually increased.
Patroklus Murakami: i have a couple of business commitments in SL but they don’t take up much time. apart from full time work I have no other commitments. so i have a fair bit of time to devote to nfs
Patroklus Murakami: but…
Patroklus Murakami: i would want to put boundaries in place so that i’m not spending all my free time on nfs work. the boundary is negotiable but there will be a limit to my commitment
Patroklus Murakami: or my RL partner will kill me 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: how much time do each of you think the Chancellor job will take?
Patroklus Murakami: I think it’s like packing for a long trip, the job expands to fill the time available.
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm. Good question. I’d expect some of the routine work to take up a little time every day, with larger stuff such as CN or event planning taking more. I wouldn’t care to assign an exact number of hours.
Patroklus Murakami: So I would want to set a limit on my involvement so that my work in focussed.
Patroklus Murakami: It could be anywhere from 10 to 60 hours a week otherwise.
Aliasi Stonebender: 60 hours, and they want more. 😉
Moon Adamant: lol
Justice Soothsayer: yes, it does seem to be a black hole that could fill up all available space.
Patroklus Murakami: i hope that answers your qn ash 🙂
Moon Adamant: i’d like to add something about the CN issue, btw – but maybe after this
Justice Soothsayer: would either of the two candidates care to pose a question to the other?
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ve noticed that we now have available land once again after some citizens downsized their holdings: if we got full again, though, what would each candidate do to provide temporary accommodation to prospective citizens until CN was built?
Aliasi Stonebender: FEMA trailers in Altenburg. <_ < Ashcroft Burnham: FEMA? Moon Adamant: lol Patroklus Murakami: i think the priority has to be to get CN on line. anythign else would be tinkering at the edges. that has to the focus. lol at aliasi's suggestion Ashcroft Burnham: The idea of a market with stalls in Old Altenburg is not a bad one, however. Aliasi Stonebender: (FEMA is the emergency management agency in the US. They badly botched the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.) Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, I see 😀 Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! Patroklus Murakami: to answer justice's qn, i don't have any qns for aliasi. sorry 🙂 Aliasi Stonebender: But Pat has the meat of it. We need CN online. Anything else is half-ass. Ashcroft Burnham: One final question from me: what are each of your views on delegation? Justice Soothsayer: delegation of what, Ash? Ashcroft Burnham: The more routine and mundane duties of the Chancellor. Aliasi Stonebender: While I confess to being a do-it-yourselfer in many ways, I believe much of the job of an executive of any sort involves finding who can do a task and making them do it. Ashcroft Burnham: (Or, indeed, individual specialised tasks). Patroklus Murakami: delegation? it's how i get my RL job done! i manage a team of ten people, and most of teh work has to be done by others. Patroklus Murakami: i think the most effective way of working in the chancellor position is to get other ppl to do what needs to be done. Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, each of your answers are very similar 😉 Patroklus Murakami: and there are plenty of ppl willing to help. it just needs focus i feel Justice Soothsayer: Moon, do you have any questions? Moon Adamant: no, just two comments Justice Soothsayer: go ahead Moon Adamant: one is about ash's question on delegation... i feel we RA need to give the chancellor the tools to delegate, and that is related to the Civil service Bill that is pending Moon Adamant: another is just my comment on CN 🙂 it is true that teh work of the SPC is stalled - and that is my full blame entirely Patroklus Murakami: i think that many ppl are involved in CN (including me!) so I don't think u can take all the blame moon Moon Adamant: i've had rl dealines to meet - and so i couldn't give the full attention to SPC. that is passed now (i hope!) - but nevertheless Aliasi Stonebender: Me as well, so hey, we all have egg on our face. Aliasi Stonebender: The advantage of the Chancellor, no matter who's it, is you have one person to blame. Patroklus Murakami: and a blame culture doesn't help ut so move fwd. it needs active participation from many Patroklus Murakami: the chancellor will have clear responsiblity fo rmaking this kind of project happen Moon Adamant: oh, i agree with you Pat - i do feel i ned to aknowledge it, though - and also to say that independently of who bcomes chancellor Moon Adamant: i will be happy to work with either, and pass you the files and feedback - since i do think that the chancellor should now head this collective effort Justice Soothsayer: thanks, moon Justice Soothsayer: I just want to thank both Pat and Ali for coming this morning. You certainly have not made our task of deciding any easier! Moon Adamant: no, you haven't 🙂 Justice Soothsayer: You both have so much to offer, and I truly hope whoever is not selected will continue to be most involved Ashcroft Burnham: Hear, hear. Patroklus Murakami: don't worry, i'm difficult to get rid of! 🙂 Justice Soothsayer: I just want to remind everyone that the 7 day rule is in effect, so there won't be a decision today. Justice Soothsayer: I believe each of the RA members has a firstname.lastname(at)gmail.com email address.... Justice Soothsayer: so if you have anything further to add feel free to do so via email Aliasi Stonebender: Oh, believe me. I intend to bug you all, be it chancellor or crazy woman who lives on the hill. Moon Adamant: lol Justice Soothsayer: lol Ashcroft Burnham: Or crazy chancellor who lives on the hill? Moon Adamant: ahahah Moon Adamant: and she has an axe 🙂 Ashcroft Burnham: Yes. Ashcroft Burnham: And is a dragon sometimes. Justice Soothsayer: I only have about 10 minutes or so remaining Ashcroft Burnham: That's unfortunate. Patroklus Murakami: wb fernando 🙂 Moon Adamant: wb Fernando Justice Soothsayer: anything ffurther on the Chancellor? Fernando Book: Sorry, I crashed. Justice Soothsayer: wb Fernando Justice Soothsayer: OK, hearing nothing else on the Chancellor, lets move on to the legal system Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂 Justice Soothsayer: First, I just want to make a personal observation Aliasi Stonebender: (And with that in mind, I don't have much to say on the bills, so if you'll excuse me, I shall run for the moment.) Justice Soothsayer: As you know, about 2 weeks ago I submitted 5 separate bills for us to consider as a substitute to Ashcroft's detailed proposal Patroklus Murakami: bye aliasi 🙂 Justice Soothsayer: bye Ali. Moon Adamant: bye Aliasi 🙂 Fernando Book: Bye. Justice Soothsayer: But in the last 2 weeks a combination of travel commitments and a very nasty labor strike at my RL job have left me virtually no time for NFS. Justice Soothsayer: So yesterday I briefly restated my position in opposition to some parts of Ashcroft's proposal in the forums. Justice Soothsayer: I'll try to get some more detailed comments out soon if RA members would like, but I am afraid the nasty strike is continuing. Ashcroft Burnham: Well, can we discuss the issues in as far as we can here? Moon Adamant: sorry to hear your RL is so troubled, Justice 🙁 Justice Soothsayer: thanks, Moon. It has been an interesting couple of weeks! missing segment here Ashcroft Burnham: If you have good reasons, tell me what they are, and we can discuss them. If you have not, then, however you feel, you should set your feelings aside and do what is right. Patroklus Murakami: i don't think you can really accuse justice of genocide! (bit much ash :)) Ashcroft Burnham: I pose the question that I propose in the forums again: why should an ill-considered objection stand against a well-considered proposal? Patroklus Murakami: i can't argue agaist the use of reason... Ashcroft Burnham: (I wasn't saying that Justice has actually committed genoicde, or even want to..) Ashcroft Burnham: Nobody can. That's what it is to be reason 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: but sometimes u know u r uncomfortable with a proposal, even if u can't clearly articulate why Ashcroft Burnham: Then my question stands: why should an ill-considered objection stand against a well-considered proposal? Patroklus Murakami: tho i agree u need to articulate why u feel that way in order to convince others Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn Ashcroft Burnham: No, more importantly, it is wholly wrong to act in a way that binds others except acting in accordance with reason. Ashcroft Burnham: If you can't find conclusive reasons, you must not act so as to affect others at all.. Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Gwyn 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry guys, I overslept 😛 Moon Adamant: hi Gwynnie 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded. Justice Soothsayer: We are people, not computers governed solely by logical rules Ashcroft Burnham: We're discussing your favourite topic, Gwyn: the primacy of reason 🙂 Justice Soothsayer: Hi Swyn Justice Soothsayer: *Gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Ashcroft Burnham: That's incoherent, I'm afraid, Justice: reasning is an inherent property of humans. Ashcroft Burnham: Computers do not *reason*, since they have no goals. Ashcroft Burnham: They merely calculate. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm afraid my brain hasn't registered enough caffeine in my system to make me rational enough for that. Ashcroft Burnham: You cannot help but reaon when you think. The question is not whether you are reasoning at all, but whether you are reasoning well or badly. Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! Ashcroft Burnham: But my question is as yet unanswered: why should ill-considerd objections ever stand against well-considered proposals? Fernando Book: Ashcrot, we're not the philosopher king of Plato's Republic. Patroklus Murakami: i fear we're getting bogged down in the philosophical basis for decision-taking. can i ask a procedural qn Patroklus Murakami: ? Justice Soothsayer: yes, Pat? Ashcroft Burnham: One cannot make any decisions or have any discussions without agreeing the pholospohical basis on which decisions are talen. Ashcroft Burnham: Taken. Fernando Book: In a democracy feelings counts. Moon Adamant: i think Ah, it is natural for people to feel doubt, don't you agree? Ashcroft Burnham: I'm not saying that feeling doesn't *count*: indeed, feelings are part of the goals of all reasoning processes: without feelings, there could be no reason. Justice Soothsayer: PAt has the floor for a procedural question Gwyneth Llewelyn: Human beings doubt all the time 🙂 For instace, I doubt that I can reason anything today. Justice Soothsayer: and I am nearly out of time this morning Ashcroft Burnham: But there's a differnece between taking feeligns into account in a reasoning process and acting irrationally on the basis of urge.s Patroklus Murakami: how do u intend to vote on these competing amendment? if u pass ash's amendment the others are unnecessary. how doavoid passing conflicting or incomplete amendments? Justice Soothsayer: I don't believe that has been decided, PAy. Justice Soothsayer: *Pat. Ashcroft Burnham: That is the inherent problem with the essentially incoherent notion of split bills. Ashcroft Burnham: I agree that the process should be incremental, but my judiciary bill is one increment. Ashcroft Burnham: One cannot move house one room at a time 🙂 Justice Soothsayer: My suggestion was to take the 5 proposals up in order. Another option is to introduce amendments one at a time to Ashcrofts' bill. Ashcroft Burnham: The latter would be far preferable. Patroklus Murakami: i think that needs to be clariified so we don't end up with a dogs dinner 🙂 Ashcroft Burnham: Quite. Moon Adamant: lol Pat Ashcroft Burnham: I far prefer debating amendments to deal with specific concerns than having two structures to debate, one coherent and one not. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hrrmpf Ashcroft Burnham: Hrmph? Gwyneth Llewelyn: When Ash's words start to make sense, Gwyneth Llewelyn: it means that coffee is working 😉 Ashcroft Burnham: I'll take that as a compliment - I think 😉 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suggestion: approve things "in general" and then go to specifics. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Ash ? yes Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, Gwyn - what do you mean exactly? How does one approve things in general? Ashcroft Burnham: But not specifically? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in some legislatures you have this option, Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I think we used it once) Gwyneth Llewelyn: when people can't agree on specific details Fernando Book: In Spanish parliament a bill is voted to be taken into account Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will first agree: "we will use Ash's proposals" Justice Soothsayer: I need to bring this meeting to a close and continue the discussion in the forums Fernando Book: The amendments are voted Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Fernando, same in Portugal, actually Ashcroft Burnham: I am disappointed that this meeting has acheived so little in terms of discussion of substance. Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and seconds Fernando Justice Soothsayer: I am going to withdraw my 5 bills and instead offer amendments to Ash's proposal Fernando Book: And then there's a final vote on the whole bill. Ashcroft Burnham: Well, that's some progress.... missing segment here 7 Day Discussion: Franchulates Claude Desmoulins In an attempt to address Moon's questions from yesterday: Franchulates aren't about growing the citizen population, they are about: 1) Using tier break points to generate revenue for the city and land fee savings for citizens 2) Giving us a presence on the mainland . This is the big one. All of the various island government models are a counterpoint to the relative anarchy of the mainland. This is , AFAIK, the first attempt to leverage the less anarchic island systems into a mainland presence. I'll let Pel jump in here. Claude Desmoulins Do people have comments and questions at this point? If nothing comes up in a couple of hours, let's vote on this thing. Jon Seattle It seems to me we are missing an important opportunity here. This bill could provide a good way to incorporate outside groups into out system. That could be a good way to grow. What we need to do that is to add a mechanism that would allow someone to become a member of our cooperative by virtue of residence in a Franchulate. This would allow an entire group to join our political system by bringing in their own land. It also seems to me that there is no good reason for giving us presence on the mainland if this is going to be viewed as, well, someone from Neufreistadt owns some land on the mainland though some complex tier-saving scheme. To make point 2 stick at all, this also has got to be a political extension. Without the political side this bill looks like an entry into some economic game that may or might not be worth it after labor is factored in. Why should we go there? Best, Jonathan Justice Soothsayer I think we have the mechanism for expanding our citizenship if we pass the franchulates bill: the microplots. I agree with Claude that developing a mainland presence is a good thing, and could lead to some fast growth for us. Claude, I'm casting my vote in favor of the bill. Jon Seattle Please explain to me how the microplots would work with this fanchulates? Would someone be able to become a citizen by buying a microplot on a fanchulate? As I read the bill the answer is no. Justice, can you please tell me how a citizen owning land on the mainland would lead to fast growth? There are many citizens who already do. Jon Seattle to Justice, me, Moon, Pelanor More options Sep 12 (3 days ago) Ah, so they would have to acquire a microplot in the existing sim. We are now completely out of those. If a group say with ten members owning 8096 m2 on the mainland wanted to join each of the those ten members would have to buy a (nonexistent) microplot. Their ownership of the mainland would not count. In other words this bill would be useless to aid expansion. On 9/12/06, Justice Soothsayer wrote:
A non-citizen who has mainland land could acquire a microplot, thus making
the mainland land eligible for status as a fanchulate. The tier factor,
plus access to our other advantages of citizenship, could lead to growth in
our numbers beyond those who arleady hold land on the mainland.

Jon Seattle

Several people suggested that we support this proposal exactly because
it would help us incorporate new groups into our democratic system.
What is left, as far as I can tell, does not do much in that
direction.

What I am saying is that we can do much better than this. So I vote
no, and hope we can do another round.
Pelanor Eldrich

I’m going to vote yes, but I’d like to add that I just had an extremely productive chat with Jon and I think we can look at a very viable substantial amendment next meeting that I feel will address CSDF and DPU concerns. Moon is working on the drafting.
Moon Adamant
to Jon, Justice, me, Pelanor
More options Sep 12 (3 days ago)
very briefly, my comments.

obviously, i agree with Jon that this could be an opportunity to discuss citizenship. If we maintain that citizenship is defined as owning a bit of the homeland, so to say, then we are definetely limiting our number of citizens (don’t forget that CN won’t have any microplots – so, till we expand again, you rely only on the NFS ones).

i also have my doubts about point 2. In what way can you rule out the anarchy of mainland if you only have, say, 512 m2 organized in middle of chaos? how can you discern it from the surrounding noise? Either in terms of territorial or political difference?

On these, and on the other points that Jon has raised, i must vote no as well.

see you all soon! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins
to Moon, Jon, Justice, Pelanor
More options Sep 12 (3 days ago)
I always understood this particular bill as being mostly economic. I’m not opposed to doing something on the citizenship front, but I don’t think we have to do it in this bill. I look forward to Moon’s forthcoming proposal and vote yes on this one.

7 Day Discussion: Treasurer and Estate Owner

Claude Desmoulins

Any discussion on these bills?

Claude Desmoulins

Since I hear none, are we ready to vote?

Also – My plan is to publish the entire email thread of each issue to the forum as a “transcript extension”. Any objection to this?
Moon Adamant

hello all 🙂

Claude, no objections to transcript.

I vote yes for both Treasurer and Estate Owner Bills.

See you later!

Moon
Jon Seattle

I vote yes as well. Thanks.
Claude Desmoulins

As I was reading the bills before voting, I noticed an inconsistency. The Treasurer bill allows someone to hold that office and another if granted a waiver by the SC. The EO bill lacks the waiver provision. I’d like to amend EO to make the two consistent. What say ye?
Pelanor Eldrich

I vote yes as well and have to objections to a transcript extension.
Pelanor Eldrich

To both bills, I vote yes…sorry for that.
Claude Desmoulins

Since it has enough votes for passage as is, we’ll put the question of amending so as to create an SC waiver in the EO bill on Saturday’s agenda. I also vote yes on the bills.
Justice Soothsayer

I’ll vote yet on both and no objections to transcripts being posted.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 16, 2006

Meeting on 2006-09-16
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: Please retouch the recorder.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: done
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: ok
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone have the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: yes
Jon Seattle: Lets wait just a moment, Moon is almost here.
Sudane Erato: hi Moon! 🙂
Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Moon
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon, nice entrance 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Moon! 🙂
Moon Adamant: sorry, i had to download teh update
Jon Seattle smiles brightly at Moon
Moon Adamant: lol pat
Moon Adamant: /m smiles brightly at Jon, thanks for tp 🙂
Patroklus Murakami thinks he will ‘ruth’ at some point today for that crack at moon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Let’s get going.
Claude Desmoulins: First, a proposed amendment .
Claude Desmoulins: This just sets a time limit on the Chancellor exercising his/her veto.
Claude Desmoulins: Else we could have a veto months after the fact.
Patroklus Murakami: could i ask a qn about this proposed amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: Sure
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: what if the Chancellor is on holiday or otherwise unable to log in for more than two days?
Patroklus Murakami: does the power of veto depend on being available 365 days a year?
Claude Desmoulins: I would be fine with a slightly longer time limit.
Claude Desmoulins: But someone who wants this job should be expected to not diappear from the world for weeks at a time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: knock knock 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Note that the notification doesn’t happen in world
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: how about the next RA meeting as the limit, or two weeks. whichever is the sooner?
Jon Seattle: Hello Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: It’s forum or wiki.
Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Gwyn
Jon Seattle smiles at Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles and waves
Moon Adamant: hi Gwynne 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: hi Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: That seems quite a long time.
Patroklus Murakami: i agrre claude, the new chancellor will be v busy, but even Prime Ministers and Presidents get a break 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Anybody else have thoughts here? Could we split the difference ?
Jon Seattle: How about one week?
Justice Soothsayer: Since the RA posts transcripts, and has public meetings, I don’t think a week is too much time.
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with that.
Justice Soothsayer: or too little
Jon Seattle: That gives some time for technical issues, etc.
Patroklus Murakami: a week from when then? from when the RA transcript is posted?
Claude Desmoulins: Ok let’s put an amendment on the floor:
Claude Desmoulins: Change 48 hours of the passage of the act….
Claude Desmoulins: to seven days of the posting to the wiki of the act.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I was writing something, but I don’t see anything wrong with that after all 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any problem with that?
Jon Seattle: File with me
Justice Soothsayer: OK with me
Moon Adamant: fine with me too
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment to the amendment….
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Jon Seattle: Ary
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to the amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion?
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none….alll in favor…
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK now back to our chancellor election.
Claude Desmoulins: This strikes me as a very clear contrast in work styles.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… great that someone noticed it as well 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn leaves sarcastic mode.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Both Pat and Aliasi are quite competent. They have, however, quite different approaches to problem solving.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees but shouldn’t say anything actually 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There’s my $L1.
Claude Desmoulins: Any other comments or discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Sudane Erato: will Pat speak?
Justice Soothsayer: both candidates gave thoughtful presentations last meeting
Sudane Erato: ahh… sorry
Sudane Erato: i wasn’t there
Patroklus Murakami: well, i’m not sure what you want me to say! it hardly seems fair for me to speak when aliasi is not here
Sudane Erato: yes… forgive me…
Sudane Erato: not being aware of last meeting
Claude Desmoulins: I think both of you represented yourselves well in the previous transcript.
Patroklus Murakami: we both presented our case at last week’s meeting. the transcript is availabe for the RA members who were not there. i thought the vote was being taken over seven days? is that not the case?
Claude Desmoulins: It was but no one actually voted 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: well, it has been 7 days and we have not voted yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Justice 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn makes notes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s try voting then.. How about a roll call
Justice Soothsayer: like our meetings, the email meeting didn;t make it through the whole agenda
Claude Desmoulins: Moon?
Moon Adamant: my vote?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes I’m going alphabetical by avatar surname.
Moon Adamant: i vote on Pat for Chancellor
Moon Adamant nods
Claude Desmoulins: I vote for Ms. Stonebender
Claude Desmoulins: Jon?
Jon Seattle: I vote for Pat
Claude Desmoulins: Jusice?
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry
Justice Soothsayer: I;m voting for Ali, which means we have a tie; suggest we move this to 7-day (again) for Pel’s vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Yep, I expected as much.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe so do I… but hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is actually a bit irregular 🙂
Moon Adamant listens to gwyn
Jon Seattle: listens to Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if everybody in the RA votes on annuling the tie and calling for a 7-day vote, i guess that’s all right.
Claude Desmoulins: Any problem with that?
Justice Soothsayer: Or we could just have asecond round of votes.
Moon Adamant: no problem at all
Patroklus Murakami: i think you should be forced to stay here til u reach a decision
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol pat
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, what is the usual procedure for breaking a tie?
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Patroklus Murakami: rather than waiting *another* week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. The “Vatican voting procedures”.
Sudane Erato: no bathroom?
Jon Seattle: lol
Moon Adamant: lol sudane
Patroklus Murakami: no bathroom, food or water
Sudane Erato: :))
Justice Soothsayer: worse, no coffee
Patroklus Murakami: and i’ll start singing in ten minutes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Jon, I guess that it was not truly ever discussed, Justice. Usually, a tie just means “nothing is decided”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noooooooo
Moon Adamant: uh oh… i was laready calling for a pizza 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it could be worse, it could have been *me* singing 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Under normal circumstances a bill would die.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, what Claude said.
Jon Seattle will need a low-fat pizza
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have to elect someone, that doesn’t apply here.
Patroklus Murakami: here’s my problem claude, the RA called a 7 day vote..
Patroklus Murakami: you’ve had that and it’s resulted in a tie…
Patroklus Murakami: you now propose a furhter 7 days to get pel’s vote
Claude Desmoulins: In fact not.
Claude Desmoulins: The seven day procedure resulted in no vote at all.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m listening
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we are effectively at the 3rd round of voting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One 7-day vote, one 10-min vote, and now another 7-day vote.
Claude Desmoulins: Although no ballots were cast during the seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: I suppose we could sit here and try to persuade someone to flip, but it seems an inefficient use of inworld time which is limited.
Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s a balance the RA has to decide on . which is a better use of your time, especially if yoiu feel the logjam is difficult to break. i will say this though…
Patroklus Murakami: youi have to balance putting up with a further week’s delay to this critical appointment, versus the items on today’s agenda
Moon Adamant: so what are the alternatives? I remind you also that i can only stay till 5, but i can give my vote in proxy to Jon if that is allowed, for the case Pel logs in later
Patroklus Murakami: i think makikng this decision is the most important one facing you right now
Justice Soothsayer: it need not be a full week; Pel could break the tie with an emailed vote at anytime.
Patroklus Murakami: but it’s a matter for yoiu to decided
Moon Adamant: i agree with you Pat
Patroklus Murakami: yes justice, or pel might not be reachable for a week. who knows?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would tend to follow Justice’s suggestion, even fearing that it might set a precedent…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Pat also raises a good objection.
Claude Desmoulins: Despite its importance, I have serious doubts as to whether we’ll break the deadlock this morning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I move we have another round of voting now at our meeting.
Justice Soothsayer: If we are still tied, then move to 7-day.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that acceptable?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, now now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We definitely need better procedures…
Justice Soothsayer: yes, now now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn smirks. 🙂
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, I very much agree.
Moon Adamant: and i do agree Gwyn
Moon Adamant: well, i do think i have stated my vote clearly… am not sure that it helps doing another vote immediately
Moon Adamant: but i am agreeable
Claude Desmoulins waits for Pat and Moon
Patroklus Murakami: i trust under this procedure we won’t have to wait a week for the answer? that the vote is called as soon as pel indicates his choice?
Claude Desmoulins: That’s fine by me.
Jon Seattle: yes. I could go with that.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Round 2
Claude Desmoulins: Moon
Moon Adamant: i vote for Pat, again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I vote for Aliasi again.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon
Gwyneth Llewelyn foresees the future.
Jon Seattle: I vote for Pat of course
Jon Seattle: lol Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Didn’t Gwyn make the “prophets of SL” list?
Claude Desmoulins: Justice
Justice Soothsayer: drum roll…..
Justice Soothsayer: I vote for Ali again.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to 5-17
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Claude!
Claude Desmoulins: The treasurer act allows the treasurer to hold another position with an SC waiver, but the EO act has no such provision.
Claude Desmoulins: I like the separation in principle, but…
Moon Adamant listens to claude
Claude Desmoulins: ….both are positions we must have, and do we have someone to replace Sudane as treasurer and GM if we don’t pass this?
Sudane Erato: EO… really
Sudane Erato: GM will be gone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for raising my own objections, Claude 🙂
Claude Desmoulins guesses he should ask Sudane which position she would keep if she had to choose.
Sudane Erato: the omission of the waiver from the EO bill was an oversight really
Sudane Erato: if I had to choose?
Sudane Erato: I guess EO… its less work :))
Claude Desmoulins: So we know which position we’d have to recruit for 🙂
Sudane Erato: honestly… I’m available for either
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Sudane Erato: or both
Jon Seattle: well, I did like the idea of maintaining independance for the EO
Jon Seattle: but no strong objection
Sudane Erato: oh yes… I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… Sudane is right, that sooner or later the GM will cease to exist as a Governmental position ? hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that requires some rounds of discussion yet 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I also lke it, but who do you know who is capable and willing to step into the treasurer spot?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know an accountant… hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, she’s not a citizen yet 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn winks at Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Sudane Erato: :))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually know another one, Ranma tardis.
Claude Desmoulins: And who is broadly trusted in our community?
Claude Desmoulins: Oh.
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’trealize Ranma was an accountant.
Jon Seattle: Ah, very interesting.. she may be an option if willing
Claude Desmoulins: I’d still liketo pass this so our hand isn’t forced.
Sudane Erato: yes, i agree
Claude Desmoulins: Ranma might say no after all.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: I will say that I am worried about the longer term implications of this.
Moon Adamant: aye
Jon Seattle: But will go along. Aye.
Claude Desmoulins: If we find that there are enough competent people to keep the postitions separated, we can amend again later.
Jon Seattle: I would like to suggest an additional admendment that will require this to be re-examined in six months time.
Jon Seattle: As we did with the exec bill.
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm
Sudane Erato: i’d say that six months may be too short
Moon Adamant: i am agreeable
Sudane Erato: you’ve already had me for going on 2 yeras…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry, I’m just trying to think about the long-term implications here, but I don’t see, at the moment, anything that can’t be amended later.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and good point, Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: and this role doesn’t change omnth
Sudane Erato: much
Moon Adamant: i think that with our expansion to CN and franchulates, a reassesment of EO may very possible be needed in the future
Sudane Erato: mybe 12 months?
Justice Soothsayer: we could reassess at any time
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Do you want an auto Sunset, Jon?
Jon Seattle: The thing that I am worried about is someone, in effect, becomming ruler of the community by gathering positions.. Say, SC, EO, and tresry
Sudane Erato: is that posible?
Claude Desmoulins: or Treausrer, GM, and EO? 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jon Seattle: yes.
Jon Seattle: In Sudane, we have someone we trust. But will that always be true?
Claude Desmoulins: The EO has great power by owning the sim. Other than that…
Sudane Erato: listen…. some, such as Aliasi….
Sudane Erato: have pointed out that
Claude Desmoulins: Or would it be better to specifically grandfather Sudane?
Moon Adamant listens to Sudane
Sudane Erato: there is ultimately no control on the power of the EO
Sudane Erato: this is really a half measure
Moon Adamant: exactly, Sudane
Sudane Erato: which means…
Jon Seattle: Claude, I would be happier with either approach.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: that you will always have to “trust” the EO
Sudane Erato: under current LL rules
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, an untrustful EO will always have to pay LL for tier, soooo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: this bill is just the best that cn be done under the circumstances
Claude Desmoulins: The problem with a forced sunset here is that unlike with theChancellor/Guild there is no fallback.
Jon Seattle: Sudane, oh, the bill aready passed. We are just discussing the amendment.
Sudane Erato: yes… I know…
Claude Desmoulins: And neither ofthese postitions can go vacant.
Sudane Erato: but the motivation for the ammendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, yes, and the amendment is not terrible. It even gives a provision on granting a waiver 🙂
Sudane Erato: is concern about the role of the EO
Jon Seattle: I would be happy with something that grand(monthered?) Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think that a sunset clause is really needed.
Sudane Erato: :))
Claude Desmoulins: I’m more inclined to leave as is. The waiver provision requires the consent of two branches (RA and SC) before it can be exercised/
Sudane Erato: the RA as well?
Claude Desmoulins: Oops
Jon Seattle: Yes, no RA as far as I can see.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No RA, no
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry. Mental rust
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would mean that the RA couldn’t exert a political power to get the EO into government 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is not too bad, I think.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, what’s the exact form of your amendment?
Sudane Erato: please forgive me…. RL requires my departure 🙁
Justice Soothsayer: bye Sudane
Jon Seattle: Claude, on further discussion with my faction, I withdraw my amendment.
Sudane Erato: be back in an hour… if we are still meeting 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK, Bye.
Patroklus Murakami: bye sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Moon Adamant: bye Sudane 🙂 *hugs*
Claude Desmoulins: On to civil service then
Jon Seattle: Bye Sudane
Moon Adamant: i will have to leave very shortly… but would like to vote still for Civil Service
Fernando Book: Hi all
Claude Desmoulins: first of all shall we amend Executive Branch to Chancellor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi fernando
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hola Fernando, buenos dias 🙂
Moon Adamant: hi fernando .)
Jon Seattle: Hi Fernando
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I mean it, Claude, I try very hard to have you guys talk about “institutioons” and not “titles” 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Then we need to be clear about the person or entity to which the phrase Executive Branch refers.
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with gwyn, better to keep it ‘executve branch’
Jon Seattle nods and agrees
Moon Adamant: well, we don’t need to, if our const says clearly that the Chancellor is the Executive Brnach
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks Moon. I wanted to point out just that.
Claude Desmoulins: This also solves the problem of what happens if we revertto the Guild.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it,
Claude Desmoulins: Questions or discussion on the civil service bill?
Moon Adamant: yes, but then the Guild must be clearly appointed in Const as holding the Exec Branch .)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we could always say: “The Executive Branch will be a power of the Guild” (on a Bill), and this Civil Service Act will still hold.
Moon Adamant: but that, if it happens, can be dealed with at the time 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, bill or constitution.
Justice Soothsayer: I am not clear on what is meant by “Executive Act”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now ? THAT is a good objection, Justice 🙂
Moon Adamant: Justice, i posted some thoughts on Exec Acts some time ago
Claude Desmoulins remembers going around and around about that phrase about a month ago 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I remember that I’ve posted some ideas on the forums as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes Claude

Gwyneth Llewelyn: So perhaps this would require a clarification bill?
Justice Soothsayer: yes, I recall that as well, but I don’t think the bill makes it very clear
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Jon Seattle: well, it seems likley to me that the executive will be somewhat less formal in this case. Can we change the language to “executive action”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Claude Desmoulins: Would you draft an action, though.
Claude Desmoulins: Draft implies a document
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Justice Soothsayer: I also think it might be wise to have an Executive in place before we start talking about his/her acts/actions.
Moon Adamant: the idea was the exec Acts being clearly written documents that would framework each executive action
Jon Seattle: I do think the excecutive will have to establish some procedures in writing. Claude, would you agree?
Claude Desmoulins: Somethink akin to policies and procedures?
Jon Seattle: Claude, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Would it be betterto change Executive Acts to Policies and Procedures?
Moon Adamant: or to hmmm Decrees
Jon Seattle: I would be fine with that change.
Claude Desmoulins: Decrees sounds a bit “dictatorial”, no?
Moon Adamant: well, it is really a wording issue here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe just old-fashioned term, Claude 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Moon Adamant: the idea is that you should have a clear distinction
Moon Adamant: between RA legislation
Justice Soothsayer: “fiat” would be a synonym, though that is also an automobile
Fernando Book: Perhaps we can leave Laws for the RA and Regulations for the Executive Branch
Moon Adamant: and these frameworks for executive action
Claude Desmoulins: I propose an amendment to change executive acts to policies and procedures throughout.
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice ? on your point, i actually prefer it the other way round, ie. first establish what the Executive is going to do, how it will relate to other branches, and all that before someone is elected… that is correct
Patroklus Murakami: how about ‘directives’? any better?
Moon Adamant: what would you call then a delegation of an executive task by the chancellor on a civil servant? a policy? a procedure?
Jon Seattle: I agree with either wording. I tend to like politicies and procedures a bit better.
Jon Seattle: *policies
Justice Soothsayer: Lets talk about how this would work. First, the RA might pass a bill saying we need street signs….
Moon Adamant: nods
Justice Soothsayer: then the Executive would direct a civil servant to put up street signs of a certain size at each intersection.
Moon Adamant: exactly
Justice Soothsayer: That would be a “direction”, not really a policy.
Moon Adamant: by means of a written statement
Moon Adamant: we are discssing here the name of that written statement
Justice Soothsayer: I think WE are the policy-making branch, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, i think that we all know what we’re talking about (mostly), we just have different words to name it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in a sense, “policy” is RA.
Claude Desmoulins: I thought of executive acts/ policies as being more a flushing out of RA legislation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “execution of policy” is Exec
Claude Desmoulins: For example….
Claude Desmoulins: The RA passes said street sign bill.
Claude Desmoulins: Rather than debating size and color,they pass a general bill.
Patroklus Murakami: why not call them ‘implementation acts’? this is about implementation of RA policy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA: policy; Exec: strategy; Civil Service: tactics 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn is in a militaristic mode today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t read Sun Tzu before going asleep, guys 🙂
Justice Soothsayer salutes
Claude Desmoulins: The exec then writes a policy dealing with size and color and shape.
Claude Desmoulins: Which the civil service implements.
Jon Seattle laughs
Claude Desmoulins: If the RA doesn’t like the color policy, they can override it via legislation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The exec doesn’t really write a “policy”
Jon Seattle: I agree with Claude, that the exec will set some policies to flush out legislation.
Moon Adamant: everyone, i have to leave
Justice Soothsayer: “regulations and directives” might be a better term
Patroklus Murakami: bye moon:)
Moon Adamant: people are phoning me already
Justice Soothsayer: bye Moon
Claude Desmoulins: I’lltake that as a friendly
Jon Seattle: Justice, I am fine with that too.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote on regulations and directives/
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Moon Adamant: ok, aye as well – idea here is to clearl mark a difference between legisl acts and exec acts
Jon Seattle: Fine with me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay!
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the whole bill?
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote?
Jon Seattle nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* vigorously 🙂
Moon Adamant: i can stay for the vote, if now
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hooray!
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we adjourn?
Moon Adamant: yay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jon Seattle: Yes
Moon Adamant: ok, i really must leave
Patroklus Murakami: when is the next meeting claude?
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want next week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that we have a truly established Civil Service, I propose a bill to change the name to “Bureaucratic Republic of Neufreistadt” 🙂
Moon Adamant: fine by me 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I hope we can install a chancellor by then.
Patroklus Murakami smacks gwyn’s wrist
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Pat

Jon Seattle: Gwyn, lol
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjouned
The meeting closed at 5:17 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 23, 2006

Meeting on 2006-09-23
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Hi
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Sudane.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: hello 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Cinzia. Do take a seat 🙂
Cinzia Griffith: hi everybody 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: You can see our democratic processes in all their glory 😉
Cinzia Griffith: sorry for the look
Ashcroft Burnham: You look fine. I like pink 😉
Cinzia Griffith: sure
Justice Soothsayer: rebooting brb
Patroklus Murakami: hi all
Cinzia Griffith: hi
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello 🙂
Sudane Erato: hello! 🙂
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hello everyone!
Cinzia Griffith: I was reading some of the documents
Cinzia Griffith: hello
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello John, Moon 🙂
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, I’m rereading Ash’s bill.
Claude Desmoulins: It takes time 🙂
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Cinzia Griffith has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry all. Having “missing image” problems 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Good afternoon, Gwyn 🙂
Cinzia Griffith: hi Gwyn
Jon Seattle: brb
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, you’re missing textures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello there, Ash.
Cinzia Griffith: hope not 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still missing textures… ok, so nothing works…
Ashcroft Burnham: “Edit appearence”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, that doesn’t help. Hmm. Not even deleting the cache helped.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. The weirdest bit is that *I* get the textures, so I’m sure they must be *somewhere* at LL’s servers.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, very odd.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, no cerimonial robes for me then :))
Ashcroft Burnham: We can just imagine that you’re wearing a rather fetching white shirt and gloves…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ty
Ashcroft Burnham: Maybe if you change clothes, it’ll work?
Cinzia Griffith: lol
Jon Seattle: back
Ashcroft Burnham: Aha! Fixed.
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: Nice dress….
Cinzia Griffith: wonderful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm but that’s another one…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: :P)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now let me go back 🙂
Cinzia Griffith: I’m sorry but I really have to go…. I’ll leave no so I don’t disturb your meeting…
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh, pity.
Cinzia Griffith: be back later, hope to be in time!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What a pity, Cinzia!
Ashcroft Burnham: I do hope that you come later 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: See you soon, I hope 🙂
Cinzia Griffith: thank you for the invitation
Justice Soothsayer: more of changing session for Gwyn than meeting yet
Cinzia Griffith: bye Gwyneth, bye Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: (These meetings can go on for a bit, so we might all still be here when you get back 😉 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Justice indeed!
Jon Seattle: See you soon
Ashcroft Burnham: Cheerio for now, though 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Cinzia Griffith: she’s a woman after all 🙂
Cinzia Griffith: that was important !!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I thought we were waiting for Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and right, right, Cinzia
Ashcroft Burnham: What about Pel?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is just a stereotype
Claude Desmoulins: Well we seem to hae a quorum but no Chancellot to install 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: bye cinzia
Cinzia Griffith: bye Patroklus
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, you have robes. Yea.
Patroklus Murakami: does that mean u have to install the runner up 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you so much, Claude!
Sudane Erato: haha
Ashcroft Burnham: If she’s overslept (and I think that this really *is* 4 AM for her…), perahps one could move the initiation ceremony down the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn feels much better now 🙂
Sudane Erato: no… its 7 AM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good for me, I haven’t found a mace anyway.
Sudane Erato: Aliasi is in florid
Claude Desmoulins: Well let’s start the meeting and shuffle the agenda.
Patroklus Murakami: the sword was pretty impressive
Ashcroft Burnham: Haven’t you? I remember a shop selling all sorts of medieval things somewhere on a private island in the South-West?, I think…
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m sure that it had maces.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the boxes.
Ashcroft Burnham: Finding it again is another matter…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha yes, Pat ? somehow, half the geeks in the world send me items to test :()
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane did the mace.
Ashcroft Burnham: It had suits of armour and everything.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, EXCELLENT :))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Ash ? I’m sadly out of cash, lol
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s probably a classified out there.
Ashcroft Burnham: Poor Gwyn 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: In both senses of “poor”…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe it’s all right, next week we’ll have more stipends 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh – you’re a premiumite, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the agenda now and hushes for a bit
Claude Desmoulins: 5-18 – Covenant revision
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks much to Gwyn, who drafted most of the CN stuff.
Gwyneth Llewelyn commends Claude for his excellent work into bringing that into a much more manageable form
Ashcroft Burnham: Might I propose a teeny friendly amendment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn was dreading that!
Claude Desmoulins: I put this up to the forums on Monday or Tuesday and nobody commented 🙁
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins listens
Ashcroft Burnham: “Nburg” should now be “Neufreistadt” 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude, I’m commenting *now* for the record 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: (It’s under the “Platz zone” rules)
Claude Desmoulins: Of course it should.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, hawk-eyes, you are so right 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s my proposed amendment 🙂
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Fernando Book: Hi all.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: And thank you, Gwyn 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as a friendly.
Ashcroft Burnham: As intended 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Fernando.
Sudane Erato: have a seat!
Patroklus Murakami: how does this affect the current arrangements? what’s changing?
Claude Desmoulins: Most of the stuff about roof pitch and window size goes away,
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Jon Seattle nods
Claude Desmoulins: It establishes base covenants for cn
Patroklus Murakami: happy to see that go 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As well as distances between plots…
Claude Desmoulins: Rather than list by type ofrule, Everything is broken up by zone,
Claude Desmoulins: There is still a setback rule for zone O (valley)
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and there is a “common” covenant, and just exceptions to it, on a case by case basis, which I think is much more manageable.
Patroklus Murakami: and who is supposed to enforce this?
Claude Desmoulins: Chancellor
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat ? the Chancellor is 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … with her mace.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! No… with court orders :-p
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
Sudane Erato: :))
Jon Seattle laughs
Patroklus Murakami: despite the contraventions of the code on the chancellor’s property and others in the city?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Chancellor will self-enforce herself first as a measure of good will 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hehe 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if not, she’ll have to face the new legal system… hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And mind you, that WILL be a deterrent!
Sudane Erato: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Many of those contraventions outside the walls will cease to be so if we pass this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, you’re also reight about that.
Sudane Erato: i have an ammendment as an addition…
Sudane Erato: to Zone I
Sudane Erato: and that is that all parcels will have a house or shop
Sudane Erato: unless specifically waivered by the Chancellor
Claude Desmoulins: No parks allowed? What about Cyberneticia’s ?
Patroklus Murakami: how would that affect the park?
Ashcroft Burnham: The waiver?
Sudane Erato: in my role as GM
Sudane Erato: I gave permission to cy and to Gx…
Sudane Erato: to each have a single parcel without a build
Sudane Erato: those were the only two
Sudane Erato: the problem seems to be rampant
Patroklus Murakami: i thinkt that’s an important point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “house” or “shop” can be as little as a bench and a gazebo?:)
Patroklus Murakami: otherwise the character of teh city inside the walls can be changed too easily
Sudane Erato: well, Gwyn, thats not the intent
Sudane Erato: yes, Pat..
Sudane Erato: thats my point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ashcroft Burnham: The words “A building comprising a house and/or shop”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to have it clarified, and on record 🙂
Sudane Erato: Ash, yes…
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Sudane Erato: that would probably be fine
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the amendment?
Sudane Erato: the issue might arise of grandfathering
Sudane Erato: i would give people a number of weeks or months to comply
Sudane Erato: or seek a waiver
Ashcroft Burnham: Sensible.
Ashcroft Burnham: 21 days?
Justice Soothsayer: couldn;t the Chancellor take care of that with a wave of the mace by granting “grandfather ” waivers?
Sudane Erato: sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Sudane’s PoV on that
Sudane Erato: Justice, yes… true
Sudane Erato: whatever makes more sense
Claude Desmoulins: Another question is do waivers expire if the propoerty is transferred?
Sudane Erato: the legal detail is my weak point 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, interesting, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, are the waivers tied to the person or the plot?
Claude Desmoulins: But let’s take the building amendment first, then talk waivers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s ask our legal advisors for input here…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and ok)
Sudane Erato: yes, good question… I should hope they do
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: What, about waivers or about the building requirement?
Claude Desmoulins: Can we separate waivers from the building requirement?
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to make a decision on Sudane’s amendment then move to a general discussion of waivers.
Jon Seattle nods
Sudane Erato: fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion on Sudane’s amendment?
Justice Soothsayer: well, Claude, Sudane;s amendment included “unless waived by the Chancellor”
Moon Adamant: nods
Claude Desmoulins: What about waived by the executive brance?
Sudane Erato: so i happily remov that… it appropriate
Claude Desmoulins: *branch
Claude Desmoulins nods at Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: if
Ashcroft Burnham: But that*refers* to a power of waiver that’s *defined* elsewhere, doesn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Claude Desmoulins: So we could remove the waiver language from Sudane’s amendment.
Justice Soothsayer: I’m OK with allowing waivers, seems consistent with Chancellor’s powers to oversee “uses to which land is put”.
Ashcroft Burnham: You could have “unless waived in accrodance with a provision of this Act”.
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t that implicit in all the rules though?
Ashcroft Burnham: Which bit?
Claude Desmoulins: That they can be waived
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The covenant rules?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Moon Adamant: i also agree with allowing waivers, providing that 1. waivers are tied down to function of structure and that 2. modifictions to an exception build must also be reviwed (this means, a waiver is not eternal)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure if they’re implicit ? either they are there, or they aren’t.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, actually, you’re right: not implicit, but explicit: “The executive has the power to grant case by case waivers of CC&R provisions. The RA may override said waivers via appropriate legislation”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Moon on that
Claude Desmoulins: he executive has the power to grant case by case waivers of CC&R provisions. The RA may override said waivers via appropriate legislation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Ash.? That’s it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek on typos
Ashcroft Burnham: So there needn’t be, as Claude points out, a specific waiver provision stated in the building requirement.
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for the input, Ashcroft
Ashcroft Burnham: You’re welcome 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Would you take that as a friendly?
Sudane Erato: sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon’s argument still stands, though. Under which conditions does a waiver remain when a parcel’s ownership is transferred?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can discuss it afterwards.
Claude Desmoulins: Technically some member of the RA needs to be the titular author here.
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll move Sudane’s proposed amendment
Sudane Erato: i invite anyone whos wishes
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Sudane Erato: ty
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion on Sudane’s amendment?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, can we have an actualized form of Sudane’s amendment? 🙂
Sudane Erato: sorry about that
Sudane Erato: i never wrote it
Ashcroft Burnham: “All parcels in the city zone must have on them a building that comprises a house and/or shop”
Ashcroft Burnham: I think that that captures the substance of it 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Zone I: all parcels should have a house or shop
Sudane Erato: either one, yes
Moon Adamant: thanks Ash and Justice 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think the building wording is important
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, Justice, didn’t we agree that “a building that comprises a house and/or shop” would resolve problems that just saying “a house and/or shop” would create about what constitutes a house or shop?
Justice Soothsayer: fine either way
Ashcroft Burnham: A person can, after all, live in a cardbord box or sell things form a wheelbarrow 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Are we ready to vote?
Ashcroft Burnham: (See Hobo Village and Port Neualtenburg respectively 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: on the amendment
Jon Seattle: yes
Justice Soothsayer votes yes on the amendment
Moon Adamant: aye for the amendment
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Jon Seattle: yes, for the amendment
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Now let’s talk waivers
Moon Adamant: ok
Claude Desmoulins: If waivers are permanent, propoerties with waiver then become hot commodities.
Moon Adamant: waivers, i believe, should be tied down to the express function of build
Ashcroft Burnham: Isn’t the answer to allow the Chancellor to revoke a waiver at her discretion?
Sudane Erato: and they should be limited to only the current citizen!
Jon Seattle agrees with Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, with appeal to the courts? Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, that might be impossible to achieve. Imagine the following scenario:
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, there’ll always be the remedy of judicial review of unreasonable or capricious actions of members of the executive.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – someone gets a waiver to build a tower of 30 m
Claude Desmoulins: Then you could have to rebuild every time a new chancellor with a different aesthetic cimes into office.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next owner gets the plot,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but deletes the tower,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and instead creates another tower.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, Ash, i’d prefer to stablish that since these buildings are exceptional, all alterations must be reviewed
Moon Adamant: and waivers can be revoked
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: perhaps, then, Chancellors should have limited powers to make their waivers binding on themeslves in certain circumstances.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor says: “the waiver does not extend to you building. Please revert to the former one”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that might be impossible, since the new owner may not have the old building any more!
Claude Desmoulins: Why not just have a waiver expire on the transfer of a property?
Fernando Book: I think that waivers must be linked to a concrete project. As the building remains the same, the waiver is valid.
Moon Adamant: indeed Fernando
Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, the new owner would not have the permission to keep enevn the old tower!
Ashcroft Burnham: Should not the scope of the waiver be at the discretion of the Chancellor?
Moon Adamant: Claude: because the owner can use the waiver and be imaginative about it 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i think we should not allow one Chancellor’s decision to bind future ones
Sudane Erato: i think the waivers should always expire with transfer
Patroklus Murakami: so the waiver shouuld expire with transfer
Claude Desmoulins: I still worry about a new chancellor coming in and annuling all his predecessor’s waivers.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, they might sell the plot AND the building.
Sudane Erato: but, Gwyn, they can’t!
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think we could consider wavers issued to buildings and not to indivduals or plots.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I prefer much more Fernando’s and Moon’s suggestion
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: the answer to that might be that the Chancellor could *sell* waiver rights. The power to revoke a waiver that would otherwise exist would then be subject to the contractual rights of the purchasor.
Sudane Erato: they can sell the building, but not the permission to keep it there
Fernando Book: Perhaps the Exec. could have a kind of waiver register, with technichal spec of the waivers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Waivers should be issued on *projects* (buildings) and not people.
Claude Desmoulins: Why can’t they Sudane?
Moon Adamant: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why can’t they indeed?
Sudane Erato: because that the rule i propose! :))

Sudane Erato: that waivers shall not be inherited
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that we get the most wonderful buildings in SL just because they have been granted a waiver to make them 21 m instead of 20 m tall,
Justice Soothsayer: in our RL town, zoning variances (read: waivers) run with the land as long as the land is used in the same way
Claude Desmoulins: To make waoved structures non-transferrable?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: now when that person leaves, all those fantastic landmarks of SL architecture would be gone…
Sudane Erato: then the citizen can seek a new waiver
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: sorry, i think you are complicating this whole question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice ? around here, that is the norm as well. Once you get a permission to change a building, you need a *new* permission to change it, but the permission will be in effect forever
Ashcroft Burnham: The new occupier might find that process somewhat overly burueacratic, just to keep what is already ther.
Claude Desmoulins: I like the waievr applying to structure idea.
Moon Adamant: do it like this: if a citizen seeks a waiver for a build, he must therefore present a model or a project for that build
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, they can ? but imagine that the new Chancellor never liked the building anyway, and sees an opportunity to delete it now 🙂 Since it’s non-compliant anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens to Moon, since she has done that kind of thing iRL way too often 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: as long as the build is according to that model or project, the waiver stands
Ashcroft Burnham: /afk
Ashcroft Burnham: afk
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, indeed.
Fernando Book: Sorry, have to go. Bye.
Moon Adamant: indendently of who owns it
Claude Desmoulins: I like that idea
Moon Adamant: independently*
Jon Seattle: I like it as well.
Moon Adamant: the waiver then describes in wording also what are the important features to be preserved, say it’s windows, becuase they’re very important to overall look
Patroklus Murakami: so would a chancellor’s waiver apply indefinitely? how can it bind future chancellors’?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s an Executive Action 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Because we say it can.
Sudane Erato: :)… hi Pel 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Pelanor 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “By decree #23 of September 2006, the Chancellor announces that this house can have tall windows because they look cool.”
Moon Adamant: Pat – as long as the building corresponds to waiver description
Jon Seattle: Hi Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor! Welcome :))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And good morning to you 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Pel
Moon Adamant: irl, you don’t repaint whole towns because the mayor has chnaged and the new one likes green best
Moon Adamant: and hi Pel! :9
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi All, sorry I’m late…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning Pel.
Patroklus Murakami: what, that future chancellor’s are unable to overturn? how do u turn it around if a rogue chancellor grants all sorts of mad waivers as a parting gift to the city?
Ashcroft Burnham: Don’t worry, Pel – we haven’t got the the Judiciary Bill yet 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Get the RA to do it.
Patroklus Murakami: you need the power to revoke these as well
Justice Soothsayer: waivers can be undone by RA action
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What Claude said.
Moon Adamant: then you define in what conditions can waivers be attributed
Pelanor Eldrich: More gyrating Ecuadorans. ..I’m sure that comment will look good on the transcript. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Which the RA can do
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Claude Desmoulins: atributed.?
Claude Desmoulins can’t spell today.
Moon Adamant: say that you say that for instance, buildings with an important community role can be considered for waivers
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s a halfway house between what Sudane suggest and what Moon/Gwyn/other people suggest…
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins listens to Ashcroft
Patroklus Murakami: so we allow the RA to overturn the decisions of previous RAs but we don’t exted the same power to the executive
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Care to suggest it, Ashcroft? 🙂
Moon Adamant listens to ash
Patroklus Murakami listens to ash
Ashcroft Burnham: That is to grant a waiver to a person in generalised terms, and, once that person builds a structure that complies with that waiver, to permit that *structure* to stand despite transferance of the land to a new owner, but not any other structure that…
Jon Seattle listens
Ashcroft Burnham: …would comply with that waiver.
Moon Adamant: Ash, that is why i defend that waivrs are set to structures, not to people
Moon Adamant: see?
Patroklus Murakami: so they can keep the exact same buiilding? but not use the waiver to build something new? i prefer that
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: hi!:)
Aliasi Stonebender staggers in blearily. Dark O’Clock.
Ashcroft Burnham: What I suggest is a sort of halfway house between the two: a waiver initially granted to a person, but, once concretised, attaching to the structure, too.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello Aliasi 🙂
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Moon Adamant: i am sorry, but that is not the way buliding or alteration permits function irl
Jon Seattle: Hi Aliasi! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, Chancellor 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: That would allow continuity, but not require the Chancellor to get involved with detailed waiver specifications.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi Ali!
Moon Adamant: you approve prjcts in city halls, and define urban plans – it’s not because the person in question has a nice smile
Ashcroft Burnham: We were just talking about your powers.
Moon Adamant: and hi Aliasi 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I tend to favour Moon’s approach. This is a case where buildings and their regulations are more important than the people that happen to like them or not.
Patroklus Murakami: hi aliasi
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s *POWERS*. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm. Still waking up, but if I may interject?
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we table briefly so as to install the Chancellor, then come back to the waiver discussion?
Moon Adamant: fine by me claude 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: as you like.
Claude Desmoulins hands the floor to the Dean.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m hoping that we’ll finally get around to the Judiciary to-day…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my, and I have no “cerimony” even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s do it AFTER the discussion
Claude Desmoulins: As you wish
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Aliasi will not be terribly frustrated if she doesn’t get a nice cerimony *right now*
Claude Desmoulins: Moon, do you have an amendment to propose?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just not to interrupt the RA’s meeting in full session ? we even have the whole RA present and all, and a major bill to discuss next 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Moon Adamant: about waivers? i think that the text should read that the chancellor can allow waivers according to Bill XXX
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s already there.
Ashcroft Burnham: I have some suggested wording that would reflect the substance of Moon’s proposal.
Moon Adamant: and that a very simple Bill XXX must then be written
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The executive has the power to grant case by case waivers of CC&R provisions. The RA may override said waivers via appropriate legislation.”
Claude Desmoulins: Except there’s no bill XXX
Claude Desmoulins: OK, I’ll throw one up
Ashcroft Burnham: “The Chancellor shall have the power to grant waivers of these regulations in respect of a particular structure or other land-use project, in respect of a particular plot. Once granted, the Chancellor may not revoke waivers”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Every “power to grant” by the Chancellor is an Executive Action, duly noted and recorded 🙂
Moon Adamant: but that can be written yet – and meanwhile set a moratory on this particular article
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, did you have somethingyou wanted to add?
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, just this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ashcroft, for the sake of consistency, I’d prefer to have just “the executive” instead of “the Chancellor” (I’m always pedantic about using the institution instead of the personal title)
Aliasi Stonebender: Considering that I derived what I presume to be my current authority to grant waivers from the existing precedent of the Artisianal branch
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, the exact opposite to the way in which it’s done in English law, but it doesn’t make a difference to the substance, I suppose.
Moon Adamant: Ash, not quite that yet – but let me listen to Aliasi, please
Aliasi Stonebender: and given the portion of the executive amendement that says th Chancellor has all powers that the amendment would grant that belong to the AC through precedent or explicitly…
Aliasi Stonebender: … I think, originally, Moon, having one person like it or not *was* part of the point; the judgement was as much an aesthetic one as anything else.
Aliasi Stonebender: Now, I do not suggest this should be the case.
Aliasi Stonebender: merely that it currently appears to be so.
Patroklus Murakami: i have to say good bye folks. see u later
Ashcroft Burnham: Pity… Cheerio!
Sudane Erato: bye Pat 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Ciao
Moon Adamant: hmmmm, the decision to grant a waiver based on a project is generally a technical one
Jon Seattle: See you later Pat! 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: bye Pat
Moon Adamant: consider the MOCA case
Aliasi Stonebender: to coin a phrase… o rly?
Moon Adamant: you have a project for a build inside an area that has aurban plan – a covenant
Moon Adamant: an urban*
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t seem to recall *my* waiver, back when I had my Tower, to have been technical… but then, things were chaotic at that time.
Moon Adamant: the MOCA project is clearly exceptional, so it is a clear case of a waiver
Sudane Erato: there has been no waiver “system” prior to now
Moon Adamant: yes, i am trying to define one 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: Oh, quite. and I agree with you.
Aliasi Stonebender: Just pointing out things as they appear to stand now.
Moon Adamant: now, you do know that most people do not like the MOCA
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: So I’ve noticed, Moon. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: but even so, it has some point in which it corresponds to the overall aesthetics of teh city, ex: it is made of dark stone, and not dazzling white marble
Sudane Erato: it was intended by the builder to be re-texed
Moon Adamant: otoh, it is very tall as regards the skyline . and that could be also a restriction in he urban plan, as regards waivers
Moon Adamant: say that the urban plan says, no height above 20 meters, ecept for special builds, in which this height can be 30 meters
Ashcroft Burnham: The Constitution says that the Chancellor has no power to change the overall theme of Neufreistadt…
Moon Adamant: so, this way, you can manage the urban tissue
Moon Adamant: yes Ash, but the covenant, declaring spcial conditions for waivers – limit condtions – is approved by the RA
Moon Adamant: see?
Moon Adamant: this is really a frame which we are talking here
Aliasi Stonebender: Although, Ashcroft, I think you’ll agree there’s a slight difference beween “Dianne’s spinny sign is OK” and “Yes, go ahead and build an elven fantasy castle”.
Ashcroft Burnham: The waivers are, though, are they not, limited by the constitutional provision requriing the Chancellor not to change the overall theme?
Moon Adamant: lol, exactly aliasi .)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Defining boundaries. Where to stop? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in any case, if the Chancellor gets too wild, there is the RA…
Claude Desmoulins: I’d really prefer to address permanence and only permanence here.
Moon Adamant: lol, i could show you an urban plan for a patrimony area i did that has 40 pages, defining paint colours, etc 😛
Jon Seattle: So, editing Ashcroft’s language slightly, I have “The executive shall have the power to grant waivers of these regulations in respect of a particular structure or other land-use project, in respect of a particular plot.”
Jon Seattle: “Once granted, the executive may not revoke waivers.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn likes that
Moon Adamant: “as long the build corresponds to the original description in waiver grant”
Moon Adamant: come on, you can even add a pic to the waiver text 🙂
Jon Seattle: Here: “The executive shall have the power to grant waivers of these regulations in respect of a particular structure or other land-use project, in respect of a particular plot as long the build corresponds to the original description in waiver grant.”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote on that amendment
Jon Seattle: “Once granted, the executive may not revoke waivers.”
Jon Seattle: will that do?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn does not object, SC-wise 😉
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of Jon’s amendment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Jon Seattle: I vote aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye (carumba!)
Claude Desmoulins: One last question before we vote on the bill
Moon Adamant: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL
Sudane Erato: :)….
Sudane Erato: sorry… I must go …
Claude Desmoulins: I made the no porn provision CDS wide.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Sudane Erato: RL!! 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn plans to introduce a pshycho test to validate the sanity of all members of the RA 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Do we wantto make it NFS only (ie how wild do we want CN to be)
Moon Adamant: awwww Sudane, *hugs*, see you later .9
Jon Seattle: Bye Sudane, and thanks!
Ashcroft Burnham: In a mad world, only the mad are sane 😉
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Bye
Moon Adamant: ah Claude
Moon Adamant: i propose that CHN covenants may eventually be revised again
Moon Adamant: CN*
Claude Desmoulins: True, This is a start point
Moon Adamant: yes
Claude Desmoulins: ‘we can leave as is tjem
Claude Desmoulins: *then
Moon Adamant: so i think that for the moment that can stay
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion on the whole bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn would prefer a single system for all covenants, even if locally the covenants are different
Moon Adamant: none, on my part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is just a comment ? please ignore me!
Ashcroft Burnham ignores Gwyn.
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Ash 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let
Jon Seattle laughs
Claude Desmoulins: ‘s vote — all in favor of the bill…
Jon Seattle: votes Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye

Pelanor Eldrich: Aue
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, the sweet smell of unanimity 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor voted twice, Dean notes.
Moon Adamant: lol ash
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s a bit like Turkish delight.
Pelanor Eldrich: It was a stutter.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted.
Claude Desmoulins: He wanted it to be clear he was voting and not howling in pain.
Moon Adamant: lol ash!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh Turkish delaight, yummy 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Claude 🙂
Moon Adamant: so… sticky? 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… ahead to the real work now,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5-9 😉
Moon Adamant doesn’t like turkish delight all that much
Claude Desmoulins: OK we have about another 15 minutes, So we can start on Judiciary.
Moon Adamant: ok 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Who wants to start?
Ashcroft Burnham: And hopefully finish!
Ashcroft Burnham: I propose that you vote for it 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Any questions?
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, did you not get my proposed amenedments?
Claude Desmoulins: Thet are in the agenda, I thought.
Claude Desmoulins: *they
Ashcroft Burnham: My proposed amendments should cover all of the valid points of your issues.
Justice Soothsayer: fraid not, ash.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I notice that you haven’t raised any objections to them in the forums, or discussed them at all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Or responded to my post.
Ashcroft Burnham: Or given any reasons for not responding to my post.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too busy perhaps? 😉
Justice Soothsayer: i’m not convinced about deleting alternative dispute resolution, and I support what others said in the forums about judicial appointment/removal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I have seen several suggestions for amendments,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but none were posted, so I’m not going to talk about them here.
Ashcroft Burnham: Can we structure this properly so as not to waste time.
Ashcroft Burnham: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, agreed, Ash. Let’s.
Claude Desmoulins: Justice, sorry for the omission. Could you pass you amendments to everyone?
Moon Adamant: please 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Let’s deal with judicial appointment and impeachment first.
Justice Soothsayer: yes, I have 2 amendments
Gwyneth Llewelyn clutters window now with open notecards.
Moon Adamant: oh, i got it Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: (1) What flaws, if any, can you find in my full and comprehensive rebuttal on the forums of your points in relation to judicial selection and removal?
Justice Soothsayer: i want a system that provides for more participation in judicial selection than yours
Justice Soothsayer: and allows more flexibility in removal (though you have moved a good way there, thanks)
Ashcroft Burnham: No, please answer my question instead of evading it: what specific flaws, if any, can you find in my reasoning in rebuttal to that very point that you made on the forusm?
Ashcroft Burnham: Forusm, even.

Ashcroft Burnham: If you can find none, you cannot honestly maintain your objection.
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, I’;m the one with the vote here, and I won’t vote for this as it stands.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Ashcroft Burnham: Do you or do you not beleive that there are specific flaws in what I suggest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn leans back and watches 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: If not, why do you have your position?
Ashcroft Burnham: If so what are they?
Justice Soothsayer: yes, i believe we need more citizen participation in selection of judges
Ashcroft Burnham: You are deliberately refusing to address my specific points which I made in detail. Why?
Justice Soothsayer: and should not leave it up to one person (with SC veto)
Ashcroft Burnham: I explained precisely why that should not be so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Justice in a sense, and there was such a good system devised by Moon for just that, but sadly Moon never posted it 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: You have failed to respond on the merits.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks Ash is being deliberatly mean 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: No, that is not true.
Justice Soothsayer: frankly, I would much prefer elections, but willing to support appointment by our bodies of govt instead
Justice Soothsayer: as a compromise position
Moon Adamant has only 24-hour days…
Ashcroft Burnham: If a person has an objection, it must be on the merits. If a person cannot muster reasons, then the position is dishonest.
Ashcroft Burnham: My position is a compromise.
Claude Desmoulins: Would a general question about impeachment be appropriate here?
Justice Soothsayer: Supporting the idea of democracy applied to the judiciary is NOT DISHONEST.
Ashcroft Burnham: I have forumualted detailed and comprehensive arguments against any sort of political involvement in the selection of judges.
Ashcroft Burnham: You have failed to respond to those arguments.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yet you maintain your position.
Ashcroft Burnham: Now, my arguments, if not flawed, defeat yours.
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, I am adamant. (sorry, Moon)
Moon Adamant: lol, np .)
Ashcroft Burnham: If you still believe that your position is right, it follows that you must believe that my arguments are flawed.
Ashcroft Burnham: But it is logically impossible to believe that arguments are flawed without having a specific belief about a speicifc flaw.
Claude Desmoulins: This has come up before.
Moon Adamant: Ash, may i pose you a question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the only argument that *I* personally have is that meritocracies without external input historically become conservative, and prevent fluid change, which is what is required by SL
Ashcroft Burnham: So, if you still genuinley hold your position, you must know of what speicifc flaws that mya rgument has.
Ashcroft Burnham: If you have none, then your position is not genuine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So at some point the judiciary will be at odds with the more liberal and adaptive remaining structures of government.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps not tomorrow, but in a few years.
Aliasi Stonebender: Cry pardon, Ash, Justice, but I think you two are talking at cross-purposes.
Moon Adamant: i get this idea that we will be having a meritocratic structure nside the state of the CDS… how could we not have it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Devising a system where the citizens have *some* input on the process conducts to change (“reform”) of the judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: the point is that the RA always has the power to make laws binding on judges. This is not the US, where judges can over-ride legislative actions by declaring them unconstitutional. That is the important point about our balance of powers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash, that argument is well noted indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And mind you, I also support the notion of meritocracies in democracy,
Justice Soothsayer: Indeed, thats why I’m willing to back off of judicial elections
Moon Adamant: Gwyn, they should not be allowed to make states inside the state
Aliasi Stonebender: We’re not the US, true enough – but neither are we the UK. We’re *us*.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or else I would never have agreed with the way teh SC works. A body of knowledge should not go wasted just because of “populist” decisions
Ashcroft Burnham: The point is this: I have explained in detail precisely why any form of political involvement in the appointment of judges is extremely dangerous.
Claude Desmoulins: My kids are awake. I know Justice must leave soon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, Moon’s argument prevails in this case.
Ashcroft Burnham: If nobody can muster an argument against those particular arguments, then it is quite wrong for a person to continue to make such an objection: utterly irrational and capricious.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew 🙂
Jon Seattle: Shall we continue this next week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I move adjournment as this clearly needs more hashing out.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, yes…politics… 🙂
Moon Adamant: well Ash… my question stands… how can we avoid that part of the structure of teh state be a meritocracy?
Gwyneth Llewelyn imagines that we’ll be here still at the End of Times arguing 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: This is insane: there has been a vast opportunity for this to be debated on teh forums, and nobody has taken it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Moon, to be honest, we have that on the SC right now.
Ashcroft Burnham: Every time that we come to a meeting, there is a brief flurry of discussion (if we ever get there) on which no substantive points are made, and it is put back.
Justice Soothsayer: well, if you all vote in favour of my 2 amendments, we could pass the bill quickly 😉
Moon Adamant: yes – and you do know my opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ashcroft, people don’t have enough free time for *everything* 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: And then not discussed on the forums again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And actually I tend to see Justice’s amendments as a good compromise,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even if it means mostly “a meritocracy controlling another meritocracy”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but since that’s what we have,
Ashcroft Burnham: I disagree for the reasons that I have explained in very great deatil, and in relation to which not one single argument against those particular points has ever been raised.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would certainly go with what we have, instead of pretending that there were alternatives that were never formally proposed 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: What if we just passed this with amendments and then do the rehash and try to get common ground on Justice’s amendments. (Like the franch thing).
Ashcroft Burnham: No, Pel, because the amendments are wrong in form as well as substance.
Ashcroft Burnham: The current amendments, as they stand, prevent the same person from being the Chair of the Judiciary Commission and the Chief Judge of Common Jurisdiction.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not ready to vote on this whole thing.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can the CSDF stomach that? Ok, but wrong enough to “Kill Bill” and wait for next week the the whole thing.
Ashcroft Burnham: We simply do not have enough people to do bot.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: then when will you be ready?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s hear WHY it is so wrong having the SC controlling the Judiciary. (Remember that the SC, at this moment, is still mostly apolitical in essence)
Ashcroft Burnham: It can hardly be said that there has not been enough time.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, was that a question to me or Justice?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To you, Ash, since Justice suggested that as an amendment…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, i haven’t read your comment on the forums to that, if you have posted them 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: I have explained in very great detail on the forum (which is far more appropriate for lengthy and detailed sicussions than text chat) why Justice’s proposals are flawed.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, perhps we could discuss this in another way…
Ashcroft Burnham: I can’t possibly replicate here a post of many thousands of words.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case, I cannot comment without reading them 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: A concern througout the process has been than the SC and the judiciary will become an unassailable power pulling strings behind the scenes, esp since they’re isolated from the restof the system.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, Claude, not even Justice’s amendments would help here.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: that’s been tried, but people fail to respond on the fourms, and then raise the same objections time and time again at the meetings without dealing with my rebuttals of them that I carefully made on teh fourms.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, why have you not posted that on the forums with a full explanation of what you mean, and detailed reasoning to support that?
Moon Adamant: oh, i was either thinking that a committe could discuss this – or that there could be brief discussions topic by topic, but i am just thinking still
Claude Desmoulins: Because , if you know the history of this place, you know that the issue’s been on the table for a *long* time.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: no text chat discusison is suitable for somethign like thsi.
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, as much as the forums are important, this is the legislative body. We do not hold our deliberations on the forums for good reason. Forum discussions in general tend to lead to greater conflict
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon ? now that is a good proposal. Why don’t we form a “judicial discussion committee”,
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: if it’s been on the table a long time, then there has been plenty of time to discuss it on the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one representative of each party,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and everyone else who’d like to aprticipate,
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: there’s no way that these issues can sanely be resolved in text chat: they’re too complex.
Justice Soothsayer: I thought the RA was the “:judicial discussion committee”
Moon Adamant: oh, not my proposal at all – this has been proposed in the forums, actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and get a committee to discuss it thoroughly, on the forums, by email, by smoke signals…
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: if we have committees, we’ll be here until Christmas.
Ashcroft Burnham: Christmas 2020, that is.
Claude Desmoulins: Justice and I need to go.
Pelanor Eldrich: I basically read as much as I could but have put most of my energy sponsoring other things. I personally have no problem with the bill originially or as amended. However Justice is our point person on this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we don’t, ash, what will happen is that the RA will never know what they should vote on,
Moon Adamant: hmmm, justice, we could appoint a commitee for counselling the RA on this
Pelanor Eldrich: And I don’t want to break ranks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and postpone it until the Earth blows up in atoms
Ashcroft Burnham: The RA should vote on my version.
Ashcroft Burnham: For all the reasons that I have given at length in the forusm.
Justice Soothsayer: Ashj, the order is to first consider amendments to the bill, then the bill itserlf.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nobody will vote on anything that they have doubts on 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: *itself
Ashcroft Burnham: I have given detailed reasons for my position and proposed compromises. Justice has done neither since his latest amendments. Why?
Ashcroft Burnham: Only doubts for which there are good reasons should have any effect on a decision of this importance.
Ashcroft Burnham: I have seen no reasons to rebut any of the arguments that I make on teh forusm.
Moon Adamant: well, Ash, consider this
Ashcroft Burnham: Unless people can find some genuine reasoning that shows that the reasoning that I have set out on the forums is flawed, then I cannot see how anybody can honestly maintain an objection on the grounds already discussed.
Moon Adamant: i may hold a stand that the state should not hold meritocractic structures in it… this is a political stand
Ashcroft Burnham: How is that relevant unless you can show specific flaws in my specific arguments?
Jon Seattle: Calude, I move to put a time limit on this discussion of fifteen minutes.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to call a vote on Justice’s amended version with the proviso that we hammer out more kinks next week.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m uncomfortable with that.
Claude Desmoulins: We need to tackle amendments singly
Ashcroft Burnham: Pel, that would be very dangerous: the system as Justice suggests is unworkable because it does not permit the same person to be Chair of the Judiciary Commission and Chief Judge of Common Jurisdiciton at once. There are not enough people..
Claude Desmoulins: What does that mean?
Claude Desmoulins: We have30 some odd citizens.
Justice Soothsayer: some of us odder than othere!
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sorry folks, But I move to table this whole shooting match to next meeting.
Aliasi Stonebender: As I so often get told… “we’ll expand”…
Ashcroft Burnham: Not enough people willing and able to take on two separate posts: (1) the Chief Judge of Common Jurisdiction; and (2) the Chair of the Judiciary Commission. Nobody has even applied to be PIO yet.
Jon Seattle: Supports claude’s proposal
Ashcroft Burnham: This is insane.
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s not strictly true, Ashcroft.
Pelanor Eldrich: Understood Ash, and I understand your frustration and really want this passed in some form.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that surely is not your major argument, Ashcroft
Aliasi Stonebender: (re: PIO application)
Ashcroft Burnham: There is vast opportunity to discuss the position on the forums, which nobody takes, and when it comes for debate in the RA, it’s always adjourned through lack of time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might remind you that there will be a SC election for a new Dean soon, so you-know-who might even become available… hehe
Claude Desmoulins: There’s a motion to table on the floor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can we 7 day this?
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s a very important argument: the effects of lack of combination will be far more immediate than those of judicial selection and removal.
Ashcroft Burnham: We tried last time, and nobody voted on it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Or discussed it on the forums.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of tabling….
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: We’re getting *closer*, no?
Moon Adamant: aye for tabling
Jon Seattle: Aye, in favor of tablig
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t see how, when Justice won’t move, or give any reasons why he won’t move.
Pelanor Eldrich: aye yai yai.
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t see how we can ever get closer unless Justice stops refusing to engage in the merits of the issue, rather than repeating his general point over and over.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, actually, I’m almost fearing that this will *never* get voted
Ashcroft Burnham: Precisely.
Ashcroft Burnham: This is of very grave concern.
Claude Desmoulins: I now move adjournment.

Pelanor Eldrich: Take heart Ash, we’ll get there, we will. I value your diligient efforts, and we’ll try very hard to get it hammered out even if we need RL chat or voice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, but democracy is the art of compromise,
Ashcroft Burnham: I have proposed compromises: Justice has given no reason for rejecting them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that’s for the RA and the bill’s proponents to figure out: “what changes can be made so that everybody on the RA feels comfortable to vote upon the bill?”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And forget logic ? this is politics, Ashcroft,
Ashcroft Burnham: He accused me of being immovable, even though I was already planning to compromise, yet he refused to move himself, or supply any reasons.
Moon Adamant: yes, exactly gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and politics is ruled by emotion, not logics.
Ashcroft Burnham: Nobody can forget logic.
Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean,
Ashcroft Burnham: That is an extremely dangerous position.
Justice Soothsayer agrees with Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it won’t be through logical arguments that you’ll deal with emotional issues 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: It took longer for franchs to get through than we’ve done on this. I think we’ll get this done faster.
Ashcroft Burnham: As I have stated, nobody can honestly hold an opinion unless he or she knows of specific arguments that defeat all contrary arguments.
Ashcroft Burnham: Dishonesty can never be tolerated.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, not at all, Ashcroft ? humans are not mindless robots thinking in yes/no terms,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they deal with their feelings,
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s a misconceived way of approaching logic, Gwyn:
Justice Soothsayer: I think we are actually very close on a legal system, with the issues mainly being on who/how judges are selected/removed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and their “feelings” show them that having states-inside-states is not “good”
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s a difference between *having* emotions and acting on irrational urges, rather than for reasons.
Moon Adamant: yes, i agree with Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but they FEEL it that way, they don’t use modus ponens to prove it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Justice ? that is certainly the case,
Ashcroft Burnham: Haven’t we already had teh discussion about the nature of reason/
Jon Seattle agrees with Justice as well
Ashcroft Burnham: , Gwyn?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be encouraging Moon to post her suggestion on that. I also think that this is the only issue needing to be agreed (compromised on) to get this bill passed.
Jon Seattle: Indeed.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ash, here’s what I’m afraid of. We need your hard work around here. What sometimes happens in this place is that the “perfect design” of someone is dropped or altered and doesn’t get passed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why does anybody think that progress will be made if there’s sol ittle discussion on the forums?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had, Ash 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I second, as I have a flight to catch
Pelanor Eldrich: People then get burned out, ticked off, alienated and leave. I don’t want that to happen to you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn also seconds Pelanor on that.
Claude Desmoulins: Any others willing to adjourn?
Moon Adamant: i do agree with you Pelanor
Claude Desmoulins: You can keep talking if you want.
Moon Adamant: ok, can adjourn
Claude Desmoulins: Adjourned
The meeting closed at 5:49 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 30, 2006

Meeting on 2006-09-30
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Well, shall we begin?
Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: We seem to be missing a few people…
Claude Desmoulins: If you haven’t touched the recorder please do so.
Moon Adamant: hello Ludo 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Ludo
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning Ludo
Ludo Merit: Hi, Moon, Jon,
Ludo Merit: Claude, Justice, Ashcroft.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane is, I hope en route
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ve seen her online.
Moon Adamant: gwyn will log in a minute too
Ashcroft Burnham: Good 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Ludo: Prime Maven? 😉
Ludo Merit: My title in Prism.
Ashcroft Burnham: What’s a Maven?
Justice Soothsayer: oy vey
Ashcroft Burnham: ?
Ludo Merit: Something like a Guru, but more toward knowledge than wisdom.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh… I see 🙂 I think…
Justice Soothsayer: maven is yiddish for expert
Ashcroft Burnham: Intereting…
Ludo Merit: Thank you, Justice.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: sorry
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: Hello 🙂
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Let’s start with reports.
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any?
Jon Seattle: Hello Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Moon Adamant: hi Sudane 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: are we waiting for ALi?
Sudane Erato: i can report on acquiring the new sim, if thats appropriate?
Claude Desmoulins: She doesn’t have to be here and isn’t on at the moment.
Claude Desmoulins: It probably would be.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello all 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello 🙂
Moon Adamant: do you expect a report from the SPC too?
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Gwyn
Moon Adamant: hiya Gwynnie 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh, Gwyn, missing textures 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps something brief … 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, not again, Ash!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, alas… 🙁
Moon Adamant: lol, it will be brief
Gwyneth Llewelyn sues LL as soon as we have the legal system approved 😉
Sudane Erato: then Moon can incorporate my news
Moon Adamant: who starts, me or the Treasurer Report?
Moon Adamant: oh
Moon Adamant: ok 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How about Treasurer
Moon Adamant: as the LRA prefers 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, I have little to report til the end of the month report
Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn 🙂
Sudane Erato: except about the acquisition of CVN
Sudane Erato: and the progress on the loan project
Sudane Erato: so I will defer to Moon
Moon Adamant: ok 🙂
Sudane Erato: since those both relate to CN
Moon Adamant: SPC report
Moon Adamant: as you know, the work has been divided between several workgroups
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah hello Pel 🙂 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Hello all, sorry I’m late. I had to get this ugly “map of Neualtenburg” stain out of my pants. 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Moon Adamant: building wg: in motion. ATM, discussing small aterations to plan to match survey, terraform starting soon, texture database in preparation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol, hi Pel 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hello Pel 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi all
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: Promotion wg: our new PIO has been briefed on previous work, and, i believe is working already with the group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Moon Adamant: Financial wg: all done, i believe
Sudane Erato: we expect to meet just after this mtg
Claude Desmoulins: Has someone proposed land fee rates?
Ludo Merit has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: Bureau wg: i have asked them to meet and solve the website and archiving matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Besides the original ones, proposed by Diderot loooong ago?
Sudane Erato: not to my knowledge Claude
Moon Adamant: Claude, i don’t think as yet, but should they?
Claude Desmoulins: Well before we can sell land we need to figure out prices.
Moon Adamant: or is it an exec action already?
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Claude Desmoulins: and have a plan if we’re going to have auctions for the hight demand plots ( say , riverfront)
Moon Adamant: they can certainly reccommend values, but do not set it, not in the scope of the SPC
Claude Desmoulins: *high demand
Claude Desmoulins: I imagine it will need an RA bill at some point.
Ashcroft Burnham: afk
Claude Desmoulins: But I se no reason for the finance wg no to do a recommendation to get the ball rolling.
Claude Desmoulins: *not
Sudane Erato: that makes sense
Moon Adamant: ok, the finance wg is then asked to reccomend land values 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: In general does the RA have to approve all land use fee changes. I thought the chancellor and/or the GM might have power to do that.
Moon Adamant: well, Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: forgive me if that’s another forum thread.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Moon Adamant: the SPC is not a deciding committe for that, it just advises, If we advise on this, then i think the CDS can sort it out who does 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Put it this way…
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, I just mean generally once it’s up. Like NFS.
Claude Desmoulins: ..Do you want the President/PM unilaterally setting your tax rates?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: or even worse, the Treasurer 🙂
Moon Adamant: oh, i am asking also because i don’t know how the NFS land fees were set orginally
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at the Treasurer 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Treasurer set them 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pelanor Eldrich: No, but I guess we’d want either their input or veto as it’s a financial bill. 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s reasonable, Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Pelanor needs CDS Civics 101. Thx, I’ll shuttup now. 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Contact Aliasi, Pel 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else from the SPC?
Justice Soothsayer: is there an estimated time of first sales?
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Back to judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sure we all appreciate Ashcroft’s dedication and energy in doing yet another revision. Unfortunately…
Pelanor Eldrich: Everyone have caffeine at the ready?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: …there hasn’t been a lot of time to digest it.
Claude Desmoulins: Ashcroft…
Jon Seattle listens
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps Moon and Justice could comment as to whether it meets their concerns?
Ashcroft Burnham: And incorporats the substance of what they wanted to do…? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: …could you give us a summary of changes in the most recent version?
Ashcroft Burnham: Incorporates, even…
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, all right…
Justice Soothsayer: and distribute via notecard please
Claude Desmoulins needs to install dwdiff.
Ashcroft Burnham: Essentially, the latest verision integrates the three amendments into the structure of the existing bill better.
Ashcroft Burnham: Notecard? Hmm, all right, hang on…
Pelanor Eldrich: I can scrape the specific forum posting and pass notecards if it helps.
Justice Soothsayer: actually, ashcroft gave it to me; i’ll pass them around
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ll reproduce my forum post…
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices for the record the helpfulness character of our RA member Pelanor Eldrich 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hear hear…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, thank you so much, Justice!
Moon Adamant: Justice, i got it, thanks 🙂
Jon Seattle: Thanks Justice
Ludo Merit: Thanks
Sudane Erato: ty 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: If you just want the details, go to the first subheading.
Pelanor Eldrich: There’s another card I have for the previous posting that highlights and explains the differences from version of 19th Sept.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent.
Ashcroft Burnham: May I see it?
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, may I aska cuple of questions?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: coming…
Justice Soothsayer: First, does the 29 Sept bill allow the same person to serve as Chief Judge and Chair of the Judiciary Commission?
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s also in the forums
Ashcroft Burnham: It deletes, as you had originally proposed, the section that specifically permits that.
Ashcroft Burnham: If you *really* want, we can add at the end (so thatI don’t have to renumber!) the wording in Amendment 1.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it’s left undefined, right?
Justice Soothsayer: But absent a prohibition, it is still possible, isnt it?
Claude Desmoulins: Justice, even if the overlap, is it less of an issue now that the CJ no longer appoints other judges?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, conceivably.
Justice Soothsayer: OK.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, as I said, if you really want it could be added at the end of Article VI (section 23)
Justice Soothsayer: 2nd question: you propose a Public Judisial Selection Panel – members of whom must not be members of a faction, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ty, Pel.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s right, yes 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Does anyone know how many factionless members we have?
Claude Desmoulins: Do you mean Article VII?
Ashcroft Burnham: The idea is to keep a balance between an apolitical judiciary and popular input into the judicial process.
Claude Desmoulins: About 20 I believe
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, I don’t suppose that anybody knows *exactly*.
Moon Adamant: thanks Pel, i got it 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Section 19
Moon Adamant: hmm, i’d say more than actulally politically-commited ones
Justice Soothsayer: and if we don’t have anyone seeking at election time to join the PJSP, then the RA does its job, right?
Ashcroft Burnham: However, people who I imagine might be interested in sitting on the PJSP include Rudy, Chicago, Ludo, Tad, Redakisto, and possibly one or two otehr people who haven’t joined us yet.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, that’s right.
Ashcroft Burnham: A default provision in case there aren’t enough people.
Ashcroft Burnham: But the minimum number of people on the PJSP is 3.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ashcroft Burnham: And the worlkoad would be far less than the RA.
Justice Soothsayer: so why not have the RA perform the functions of the PJSP?
Ashcroft Burnham: Because members of the RA have other powers. The idea is to *separate* the powers to prevent the RA from using its existing powers to increase its de facto power by appointing judges on political grounds.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might have some doubts on the issue of disallowing explicitly party members (ie. excluding the right of affiliation), but hmm, for the sake of a swift approval, I’ll remain silent on the issue 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Or why not have the SC do it. I understand youur concern about the process being political, but….
Ashcroft Burnham: Members of the RA would, and membesr of the PJSP would not, have incentive to choose judges who would favour government.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: I thought that Justice wanted popular input… the SC is not popularly elected.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC is not political.
Claude Desmoulins: True
Claude Desmoulins: Point taken
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I think the RA will end up doing the job of the PJSP, as I suspect most factionless members could care less.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, we’ll have to see about that 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The people that I listed I suspect would be interested…
Ashcroft Burnham: As I said, it’s a light workload.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’d say, let’s give it a try first.
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Ludo – would you be interested in being elected to the Public Judiciary Scrutiny Panel?
Ludo Merit: Maybe.
Ashcroft Burnham: See? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let me distill and tell me if I understand correctly.
Justice Soothsayer: btu we’re hoping Ludo will join DPU wink
Ashcroft Burnham: RIght 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! :-p
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You might also invite Fernando Book 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww ok
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, good idea 🙂
Moon Adamant: OR the CSDF 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest Diderot, but technically he’s SC 😀
Justice Soothsayer: Ludo is suddenly VERY popular
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … although hmm it seems that SC members are not excluded from the PJSP explicitly?
Ashcroft Burnham: She might be even more popular when you all read what she wrote about the judiciary and franchulates in the SecondLife? Business Magazine article to be published on Monday…
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: do you think that they should be?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww really Ludo???
Claude Desmoulins: The Chair creates the code of qualifications and appoints the chief judge. As well as doingthe admin stuff (courthouses, officers of the court, etc.)
Justice Soothsayer: Ashcroft, I want to thank you for making considerable changes, and devising a good system for public input
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash: no, I don’t think they should be.
Ludo Merit: Really Gwyn
Moon Adamant: indeed, i second Justice in my thanks 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, thanks and congratulations, then, Ludo!
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Justice 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, may I correct one or two things in your distillation…?
Ludo Merit: I hope to get a sentence inserted at the last minute if the bill passes, that’s why I’m here.
Justice Soothsayer: If we make it clear that the Chief Judge & Judiciary Commission Chair should be 2 people, I am supportive of this bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn also bows to Ashcroft for the extraordinary display of his compromising ability
Ashcroft Burnham: The Board creates the qualifications, and chooses which Judge shall be the Chief Judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Gwyn 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The Chair of the JC does the administrative work.
Ashcroft Burnham: The Board is 7 Judges of Common Jurisdiction (or fewer, if there are fewer judges).
Ashcroft Burnham: They are elected (if there are more than 7) from among Judges of Common Jurisdiction by Judges of Common Jurisdiction in accordance with procedures laid down by the Chair of the Judiuciary Commission.
Ashcroft Burnham: (That’s the bit that incorporates Moon’s idea for what she originally called the “Order of Judges”) 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Does the chair sit as a member of the board?
Moon Adamant: the CSDF finds that Ash’s revisions have resulted in a very good compromise and bill, so the CSDF supports this wording of teh bill also
Ashcroft Burnham: No, because the Chair is an administrator, not a judge. Only judges are eligable.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Moon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: And the PJSP selects the judges from the approved pool?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, can I get a short clarification on a double negative here (sorry, my English is often not good enough to figure those out)
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – when a vacancy arises, the Board invites applications, selects which applicants are suitably qualified, and submits the list to the PJSP to select as many judges as there are vacancies.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I couldn’t find it, but Ash also has a posting somewhere where he walks me through the selection process (bulleted list).
Ashcroft Burnham: The Chair decides how many judges that there should be.
Claude Desmoulins: One more question…
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s on the notecard 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: thx
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My question is on the powers of the Court of the Scientific Council, “With respect to the judiciary:” 2. Without prejudice to the specificity of the foregoing, the Scientific Council when sitting as a court shall not in any circumstances have the power
Claude Desmoulins: How does this all get rolling? Where do the first judges come from?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to determine any appeal from any Court of Common Jurisdiction only on any or all of the following grounds:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw, sorry, Claude. Yes, let’s hear the answer on your question first.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: that section is all about limiting the power of the CSC on appeals to where the Court of Common Jurisdiction has got the *constitution* wrong.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, and not the *law*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I get it.
Ashcroft Burnham: The idea is that the Court of Scientific Council can’t allow an appeal from a Court of Common Jurisdiction where it has just got the *law* wrong.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: (Because that’s just a matter fro the Courts of Common Jurisdiction).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, that’s what I wanted to make clear.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* indeed thus my question 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I would like to pose one friendly amendment – add at the end “”The Chief Judge shall not simultaneously serve as Chair of the Judiciary Commission.”
Ashcroft Burnham: Can we have that as Section 23 of Article VII?
Justice Soothsayer: fine with me, Ashcroft
Claude Desmoulins: Fine by me.
Ashcroft Burnham: About that part, of course, does anybody have any idea where we’re going to *get* a Chair of the Judiciary Commission?
Claude Desmoulins: I still would like to know how we get the first set of judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, Justice… there should be a provision for an “acting” Chief Judge/Chair if one of them leaves and we don’t find a replacement quickly enough.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, right, let me explain that, Claude…
Ashcroft Burnham: The Chair of the Judiciary Commission is appointed by the SC.
Ashcroft Burnham: To get the first judge, we do this:
Ashcroft Burnham: Because there aren’t any judges to haev a Board, the SC qualifies judges instead.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, the SC will qualify people to be judges.
Claude Desmoulins: As much as I know where we’ll get a PJSP .
Ashcroft Burnham: Because there isn’t a PJSP yet, the RA will appoint the judge.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that in the text of the bill?
Ashcroft Burnham: So, before we have any judges or a PJSP, the SC will qualify, and the RA will appoint.
Justice Soothsayer: PJSP comes in the next election cycle
Ashcroft Burnham: Then, when the system gets going, the Board will qualify, and the PJSP will appoint.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice: there are supposed to be able to be by-elections for the PJSP when there are fewer than 3 members…
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, but, Claude, we have a default provision for the lack of a PJSP 🙂 There’s no default provision for the lack of a Chair of the Judiciary Commmission.
Claude Desmoulins: Does the PJSP have a set term of office?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – the same as an RA term.
Justice Soothsayer: The default for the Chair of the Judiciary Commission is that the SC appoints one — pronto.
Claude Desmoulins: So the material about the SC and RA creating the initial set of judges is in the text of the bill?
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyneth, you’re in charge of the SC – any ideas about where we get a Chair? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder which one should get appointed first 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn has several chairs in her inventory
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, it doesn’t matter, but they both need to be done ASAP.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: :-p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok, bad pun 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Any other amendments?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggest that the SC places a notice on the forums for people to apply.
Justice Soothsayer: none from me, Ash has done a spectacular job
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that doesn’t need to me in a bill.
Ashcroft Burnham: I get rid of the SC veto for judicial appointments that I added in the 19th version, because we now have the PJSP.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *be
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Justice 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ that provision, it makes sense.
Ashcroft Burnham: The other thing is that the PJSP is in charge of procuring or supplying ADR (and the RA can also procure ADR if there are fewer than 3 members of the PJSP).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA members, please note that this bill introduces a *lot* of changes beyond the legal system,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it redefines/clarifies citizenship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Claude Desmoulins listens to Gwyn
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course, if it *really* wanted, the RA/PJSP could procure ADR from teh SC…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the marshals of the Peace, there is a tiny thingy I should ask…
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, go on… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So on Chapter IV (as proposed), section 17:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 17. Unless and until the Representative Assembly otherwise so orders by vote of simple majority, it shall be deemed to have delegated its powers to appoint Marshals of the Peace to the Chancellor, Guildmeister and to the Dean of the Scientific Council.
Pelanor Eldrich: We can easily get enough PJSP if we sell a few microplots. *evil grin*
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that these three persons will be able, in turn, to appoint Marshals of the Peace, right?
Jon Seattle lol
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, unless the RA says otherwise 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Later… on 22
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “the following persons shall be deemed to have been appointed as Marshals of the Peace: ”
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks for this catch.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: stating all members of the SC, LRA, Guildmeister
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, again, default provisions 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Why not the Chancellor as the third default?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Yes, that was question #1, Claude.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, because I was basing my default on people who are already nominated under the Defense of the Republic Act.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question #2 is what happens if the three “appointers” disagree on an appointment.
Ashcroft Burnham: And I didn’t think that Aliasi was one of those.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, the RA can easily appoint Aliasi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Seems reasonable enough
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the RA can always “unappoint” people.
Justice Soothsayer: she could appoint herself
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, well, the idea is that any one person can appoint a Marshal of the Peace.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, exactly 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: If other people disagree, then they can dismiss the person.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really don’t wish amendments upon amendments upon amendments, juts to make sure the RA can vote on this and understand what they can easily do without much fuss 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed 🙂 That’s why I prepared an integrated draft instead of having amendments…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, thank you for that.
Ashcroft Burnham: BRB – afk for just a second…
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else or are we ready to vote on this thing?
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW if we don’t get this passed, I’d like to propose Dean hold rock/paper/scissors for deciding all cases with ADR being Prok flipping a coin.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL !!!!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… IT’S ON THE CONSTITUTION.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really!
Justice Soothsayer: LOL – a judge recently ordered RPS in an RL case!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really?!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Justice Soothsayer: the 2 lawyers couldn’t agree on where to meet, so he told them to do RPS on the courthouse steps.
Ashcroft Burnham: Back 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the Judiciary Amendment(s) and bills….
Ashcroft Burnham: Hang on, Claude..
Justice Soothsayer: do we need to vote on my amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: I thought it was a friendly/
Ashcroft Burnham: Apart from Justice’s amendment to-day, the 29th version incorporates all the three amendments on the agenda.
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Ashcroft Burnham: So, we just have the 29th version and Justice’s amendment to-day.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All righty :))
Claude Desmoulins: That was my understanding.
Justice Soothsayer: September 29th version, that is. Though it seems like there have been 28 others!
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, right, just to be clear 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else before we vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens to thunder and drum rolls outside….
Pelanor Eldrich: Can we vote for Justice’s last minute amendent right after?
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Claude Desmoulins: It was a friendly and thus doesn”t need to be voted on separately.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Justice Soothsayer: I thinky my amendment has been rolled into Ashcroft’s proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The crowd holds their breath… tension increases… dropleats of sweat slowly trickle down the RA member’s brows as they prepare to vote…”
Justice Soothsayer: so we’ll vote on the Sept 29th version as amended
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Claude Desmoulins waits for Gwyn.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Claude, don’t mind me 🙂
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: waits for drums…
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye, enthusiatically
Jon Seattle: votes Aye, without comment.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Moon Adamant: votes Aye, and congrats Ash for his work 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: votes Aye last, with a flourish, for dramatic effect (as always)
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Moon 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No “aye caramba” today, Pel? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: You’re welcome. And thank you for all your hard work…
Pelanor Eldrich: aye yi yi
Sudane Erato cheers!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, congratulations everybody 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Did anybody want to vote on appointing Aliasi as an MP now?
Ashcroft Burnham: Or maybe we should ask her first? 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Heh, “The MPs are here”
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: No, we’re MRAs… 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn launches fireworks
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s ask her and allow her to appoint herself if she wishes.
Moon Adamant: one thought
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s a pun, MP in American is Military Police/shore patrol.
Moon Adamant: shouldn’t the approval of a leagal sys be formally announced in some way?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh definitely,
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm… the PIO?
Ashcroft Burnham: Somebody should tell Radakisto 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be glad to post it on the website and talk to Nightwish
Sudane Erato: Nightwing
Ludo Merit: I just sent an IM to Ute Hicks to please add it to the article at past the last moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Ludo 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Ludo 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might get Hamlet to do something on the NWN
Pelanor Eldrich: Did we formally install Aliasi as Chancellor (legally, the ceremony can wait)
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We sadly skipped the cerimony.
Ashcroft Burnham: At this stage, might I formally announce my application to the SC to qualify as a judge? 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Next week.
Claude Desmoulins: Since she accepted and got elected I assumed it’s de facto done.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe Ash
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even de jure, since it is on record on the transcripts.
Ludo Merit: Where ARE you going to get a Judiciary Chair?
Ashcroft Burnham: Good question…
Moon Adamant: maybe also some kind of Legal Sys 101 should be prepared?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, and of course the SC accepts your application, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Moon ? excellent idea.
Ludo Merit: I’ll enroll, Moon.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes… that’s a job for the Chair, isn’t it – publicity, training and education? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, “publicising” the legal system is somewhere on the bill as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Moon Adamant: ok 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: So, Moon, to do that, we need a chair.
Jon Seattle: In the future, for Chancellors, we really should have an oath of office.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to formally recognise Ashcroft Burnham’s tireless professional grade work on the Judiciary and numerous other legislative works. My resolution to that effect didn’t make the agenda, so this is my personal thanks.
Claude Desmoulins: my preschooler is awake. I may not have long.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Jon.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Pel 🙂 That’s very kind…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is there time to go through the next issues?
Moon Adamant: hear hear pel! 🙂
Ludo Merit: Hear hear!
Moon Adamant: yes, please
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some are easy 🙂
Moon Adamant: i remove my Amendment from agenda
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Can we remove all the Judiciary amendments?
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Please… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does this mean that ADR will be formally inexistent in the CDS then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (amendment #3)
Justice Soothsayer: no, its in the Sept 29th bill
Ashcroft Burnham: No – the PJSP has the power to procure or provide it.
Ashcroft Burnham: And, if there is no PJSP, the RA has the power to procure it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sorry. I was reading two notecards with the same title 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you’re right. My apologies.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ludo Merit: Were there two different judiciary notecards? I discarded one.
Ashcroft Burnham: The one that we passed is the 29th of September version, with Justice’s amendment at S. 23 of Article VII.
Ludo Merit: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to introduce a short motion,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since Claude is short on time,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we have all RA members here,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the remaining bills are rather easy to discuss/vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would suggest that, if Claude has to leave earlier,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: according to precent, the RA votes on an “Acting LRA” for the remainder of the session.
Claude Desmoulins isn’t leaving yet 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus beating the RA’s record today approving/disapproving 5 bills /amendments in a stroke, on of which the longest in NFS history.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent news then 🙂 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I just had to get breakfast going.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I withdraw the motion 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move to Franchulate revision.
Pelanor Eldrich: 5-19 anyone?
Ashcroft Burnham: I have one or two questions about that…
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Moon Adamant: sure .)
Ludo Merit: Where do I find a copy of that?
Ashcroft Burnham: The latest proposal says, amongst other things, this: “The CDS will only accept, in each legislature, that an area up to 1/16 of the total area of the CDS will join as a franchulate….
Ashcroft Burnham: … Applications for new franchulates may only be approved in the first two months after the election of the RA. ”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (BTW, Moon’s original had numbered paragraphs)
Moon Adamant: Ludo, in the box
Ashcroft Burnham: Won’t that mean that we can expand only really, really slowly? What’s the benefit of that?
Moon Adamant: Ash, i have posted explanations on those two issues on the forums
Patroklus Murakami: hi everone
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, I haven’t seen them.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Pat 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, pat!
Sudane Erato: hi Pat 🙂
Moon Adamant: hiya Pat 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Also the 2 month rule means no franchulates in the current Session 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: why is it good that we only expand very, very slowly?
Moon Adamant: reply to Claude’s questions on it
Jon Seattle: Hello Pat
Pelanor Eldrich: nods to Pat
Justice Soothsayer: hi Pat
Claude Desmoulins: afk
Moon Adamant: Ash: concerns have been raised on a too quick expansion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, about new citizens needing some time to get used to citizenship.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, there’s somewhere between, though, too quick and very, very slow!
Moon Adamant: also on these new citizens being not expert in our sys, so an adaptation period being needed
Ashcroft Burnham: But I think that those provisions limit our expansion far too much.
Moon Adamant: the rA can discuss these two figures
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, but if the RA approves applications one by one or as slates don’t we have all the control we need? Or is it important to hard code the upper limit of expansion in the bill?
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: I agree with Pel.. there shouldn’t be a hardcoded limit. The government should decide what’s too quick on a case-by-case basis.
Jon Seattle: I personally would favor removing the growth limit, but I am willing to leave it if it helps the bill pass.
Pelanor Eldrich: I suppose the DPU could ram through “we annex Caledon as franches” so I see your point.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, Pel, why would that be a bad thing if Caledon were prepared to be subject to our laws?
Moon Adamant: the limits to expansion are not important (i agree with Jon) as far as the bill is concerned
Moon Adamant: as said, they can be changed from current value – or removed, if the RA sees fit
Ashcroft Burnham: If we limit our expansion, we could miss lots and lots of opportunities.
Claude Desmoulins: I thought the Chancellory approved Franchulate applications.
Ashcroft Burnham: We really don’t want to be turning people away.
Justice Soothsayer: I’m in favor of removing the limits; we could ask the Chancellor to report periodically and if we thought things were growing too fast we could do something
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s more sensible 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I personlly wouldn’t mind Caledon doing this. I know others and many real world countries such as Israel experience difficulty when assimilating massive numbers of immigrants.
Claude Desmoulins: Should we code a minimum franchulate size?
Moon Adamant: Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They do indeed. The issue, Claude, is about, say, getting suddenly 200 new citizens with a vote, 15 days before the new term. This would change the whole of the CDS radically. A more careful approach should be used. 200 new citizens is great, if they are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all familiar with CDS rules and laws and procedures.
Pelanor Eldrich: right
Claude Desmoulins: afk
Moon Adamant: we are trying to uniformise all land units into ONE basic land unit for citizenship
Ashcroft Burnham: Also, why is there a separate licence and charter?
Moon Adamant: ah, they’re not separate – though the wording can imply that
Ashcroft Burnham: Shouldn’t the concept of a charter be used to cover both: the document that is agreed upon between the CDS and the franchulate holders, that sets out the way in which the region is to be administered?
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps we should change the wording 🙂
Moon Adamant: the RA can propose and vote changes to wording 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash, you raise a good point. Yes, I believe that the same thing should cover both, even if the Franchulate’s charter is “we have no charter” (as per your thoughtful suggestions on the forums)
Moon Adamant: but please, lol – organised 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Claude Desmoulins: I propose an amendment…
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, another wording issue…
Ashcroft Burnham: ” The joining of mainland parcels to the CDS under the Franchulate process implies, from its holders, the acceptance, validity and upholding of the laws, constitution and TOS of the CDS in the parcels. ”
Ashcroft Burnham: Surely franculating does more than *imply* upholding our law – it *mandates* it?
Moon Adamant: yes?
Moon Adamant: ah, ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mandates, yes, sounds much better.
Pelanor Eldrich: feels like Dr. Frankenstein 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Moon Adamant: agree on new word
Claude Desmoulins: 1) drop the 1/16 provision 2) change 2 months to three months 3) create a 45 day one time window for franchulate application on passage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Explain 3) to us, Claude, please…
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude – why the time limit at all? Won’t that mean that, half the time, we won’t be able to expand at all?
Ashcroft Burnham: How about five months?
Moon Adamant: to deal with impending cases?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “One time” window. Ah. You mean for now?
Moon Adamant: i prefer 3 months
Justice Soothsayer: I think the concern is about possible stacking the deck prior to elections
Ashcroft Burnham: Why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Justice.
Claude Desmoulins: I see Gwyn’s pont on last minute citizens.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, but three months is too big.
Jon Seattle: Indeed, Justice
Claude Desmoulins: So what ought it be?
Moon Adamant: because i think t takes 3 months to undertsand the intricacies of your legal sys, Ash, not to mention teh rest 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps, instead of having a blanket prohibition on new franchulates within the last three months, require 2/3rds in the RA, or even unanimity in the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it would be unfair to say something like “new citizens will only be able to vote on the subsequent term after their franchulate is established” or something, because that would be depriving citizens of their unalienable rights 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: (To acquire new franchulates in those last two or three months).
Moon Adamant: indeed Gwyn
Moon Adamant: hmmm, that is an idea Ash 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, but, I don’t agree, Gwyn: had we not already mooted the proposition that all new citizens should have to have been citizens for a certain period of time before voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That could be a posibility, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather have a time limit than insert the RA into the approval process for individual parcels.
Ashcroft Burnham: Wouldn’t that be a more effective way of dealing with the problem?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, was that approved, Ash, or just discussed?
Ashcroft Burnham: So, new citizens on unchartered lands, 1 month after joining, on chartered lands 2 months.
Ashcroft Burnham: Just mentioned. Nobody’s fully discussed it yet, although there was some support on the forums.
Ashcroft Burnham: That would, of course, require a constitutional amendment.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, feeling a little lost in discussion already
Ashcroft Burnham: *But* it would help to solve a lot of the election rigging concerns that people have been having recently…
Pelanor Eldrich: smiles quietly.
Moon Adamant: what about discussing and voting alterations point by point?
Ashcroft Burnham: What would be really awful is having to turn away lots of keen potential franchulate holders who may never come back.
Claude Desmoulins: OK. I’ll take the complete drop of the time limit as a friendly ans write a voter amendment for next week,
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s split these
Claude Desmoulins: Amendment 1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash, I have to agree on that…
Claude Desmoulins: Drop the 1/16 rule
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s probably harder to rig an election with franches than it is with new 128m2 NFS and/or CN citizens.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on dropping the 1/16 rule….
Claude Desmoulins: afk
Moon Adamant: no objections
Pelanor Eldrich: no obj
Ashcroft Burnham: (Might I suggest the following further amendments: (1) change “Licnece” to “Charter”; (2) change “implies” to “mandates”)
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, actually, the charter/licence thing is a bit more substantive than that, as the Chancellor must approve a charter…
Ashcroft Burnham: And the current bill doesn’t actually say what a charter *is*…
Pelanor Eldrich: wonders if we shouldn’t rename this sim to wonkzone. 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol pel
Ashcroft Burnham: So, how about, “To create a franchulate, the Chancellor shall agree terms of a charter with the applicants for franchulate status…
Jon Seattle laughs and nods to Pel
Ashcroft Burnham: …that chater shall set out how the franchulate region shall be administered, provided always that it is in full conformity with the constiution and law of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators”.
Ashcroft Burnham: “Franchulate charters shall be noterised”.
Ashcroft Burnham: That would replace “Upon approval a Franchise License shall be notarised with the Notary of the CDS.” and…
Ashcroft Burnham: “Franchulates can define their own charters, as long they don’t conflict with the codes, Constitution and TOS of the CDS. These charters are valid on the franchulate area and must be notarised. ”
Pelanor Eldrich: Using a, *ahem* working Nota Bene notary in the Rauthaus.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, we need to get that working, we really do.
Moon Adamant: lol, indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor’s work 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: is never done. 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: oh… i wasn’t aware it wasn’t 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: And then replace all other instances of “Licence” with “Charter”.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry folks, but I’ve gotta run
Justice Soothsayer: childcare issues
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh. Cheerio… 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Np, thanks Justice
Moon Adamant: bye Justice, see you later 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: bye justice
Jon Seattle: Bye Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aw bye Justie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Justice
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Justie – his new nickname? 😉
Jon Seattle lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: What do people think of my suggested alterations re: Charter/licence?
Pelanor Eldrich: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: Ash, can we discuss them in order?
Ashcroft Burnham: Order is always good by me 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Me too (childcare) shall we kick things to seven day?
Ashcroft Burnham: But that’s for Claude to decide ultimately…
Moon Adamant: hmm, one question though
Claude Desmoulins: I thought the 1/16 drop amendment was on the floor.
Pelanor Eldrich: I think we’re close on Franch thing.
Jon Seattle: Pelanor, indeed.
Moon Adamant: who adds the wording change?
Ashcroft Burnham: I certainly hope so 🙂 Franchulates are important.
Pelanor Eldrich: drops the 1/16 like it’s hot.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Moon Adamant: yes, let it drop
Claude Desmoulins: Which wording change?
Ashcroft Burnham: Charter/Licence.
Moon Adamant: these we are discussing?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote on dropping 1/16
Ashcroft Burnham: (See history above for my suggested rewording)
Moon Adamant: nods
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor
Moon Adamant: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually…
Ashcroft Burnham: One thought…
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone on RA wantto propose the wording amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll propose it, what’s in it?
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, did you say that you considered yourself to have the power to qualify me as a judge now, or does the SC need to meet to do that?
Ashcroft Burnham: Because, if so, the RA can vote on me now, can’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC has to meet, Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, all right 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I can only hope that it does so soon, then..
Ashcroft Burnham: Pel, my suggested rewording was above…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, it’ll be a one-person meeting, but I’ll respect the proper formalities…
Ashcroft Burnham: To create a franchulate, the Chancellor shall agree terms of a charter with the applicants for franchulate status…
Ashcroft Burnham: : …that chater shall set out how the franchulate region shall be administered, provided always that it is in full conformity with the constiution and law of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators”.
Ashcroft Burnham: “Franchulate charters shall be noterised”.
Claude Desmoulins: Also changing everthingto Charter, Ash?
Ashcroft Burnham: That would replace “Upon approval a Franchise License shall be notarised with the Notary of the CDS.” and…
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: squawks like a parrot and proposes that.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, not *everything*, or else it would just read “charter charter charter charter…” :-p
Claude Desmoulins: Disucssion on wording?
Ashcroft Burnham: Change “licence” to “Charter” whenever it arises.
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Moon Adamant: no bjections
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d only like to see “covenants” mentioned as being part of the Charter, even if it’s obvious to all of us.
Ashcroft Burnham: My wording would also replace “”Franchulates can define their own charters, as long they don’t conflict with the codes, Constitution and TOS of the CDS. These charters are valid on the franchulate area and must be notarised. “”.
Moon Adamant: Aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, Gwyn, there’s a complex issue in relation to covenants that people don’t seem to have spotted yet…
Ashcroft Burnham: Which is that we seem to be riding two horses between having planning law as part of public or private law.
Moon Adamant: er…

Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Moon Adamant: Claude, also to change:
Claude Desmoulins listens to Ash.
Pelanor Eldrich: thanks God he didn’t go to law school.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I was silent during the voting, but explain your thoughts, Ashcroft, after Moon’s comments, please.
Ashcroft Burnham: “Covenant” implies “You must not do these things with your land because you’ve agreed not to with the person who sold it to you”.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s private planning law.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, we have Acts of the Representative Assembly that define what how people should have their houses.
Moon Adamant: ” The joining of mainland parcels to the CDS under the Franchulate process implies…”
Moon Adamant: should read instead “mandates”
Ashcroft Burnham: So, public planning law is, “You must not do these things with your land because an Act of the RA says so”.
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, in fact NFS is private, is it not?
Claude Desmoulins: Would changing covenant to zoning regulations clarify that?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, although, confusingly, SL now has a “covenant” built into the interface.
Claude Desmoulins: I propose an amendment to change implies to mandates.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion…
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, perhaps it’s best that the private/public planning law thing be a separate debate later…
Moon Adamant: no objections
Claude Desmoulins: So it’s a friendly
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would recommend the change as well
Moon Adamant: and definetely agree Ash
Claude Desmoulins: Now the amendment to drop the time limit.
Jon Seattle: yes, friendly
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion…
Moon Adamant: whoa, have we voted on implies/mandates?
Pelanor Eldrich: We’re all friends here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: It’s friendly
Moon Adamant: ah,ok, friendly, sorry
Claude Desmoulins: afk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the time limit, I have only two issues. 1) The RA hasn’t introduced yet a bill for changing the “period of adaptation of citizens” (ie. before they can effectively become full citizens)
Moon Adamant: i think time limeit can be set to three months, with an exception now to deal with pending cases
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and alternatively, 2) the concept of requiring a supermajority for exceptional approvals
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, time limits at all are too inflexible.
Ashcroft Burnham: The prospect of turning people away would be too high.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s best to vote now on adding a time limit for voting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since introducing a new bil right now would be out of the agenda, may I suggest that we drop the time limit, but require a supermajority for approval *or* have a time limit like Moon suggested, but introduce a supermajority for exceptional cases?
Ashcroft Burnham: Let me find how to word it…
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve got to go soon.
Claude Desmoulins: Does anyone have significant issues with the group ownership bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Applications for new franchulates may only be approved in the first three months after the election of the RA, unless a supermajority of 2/3 of the RA agrees on a shorter term for special cases.”
Ashcroft Burnham: Article V, Section 3: No citizen shall be eligable to vote in an election for any public office unless he or she has been a citizen for not less than 28 days.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s what I suggest….
Pelanor Eldrich: I don’t have issue with group as long as I can’t rig the next election by making de facto microplots out 128m2.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Claude, let’s just wait a minute for Moon to log back in again
Ashcroft Burnham: Welcome back 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pel: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Moon!
Moon Adamant: sorry everyone 🙂
Jon Seattle: wb Moon
Moon Adamant: and thanks 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Table remaining agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: Do a citizenship amendment per Ash’s suggestion first thing next week.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Claude Desmoulins: A constitutional “voter registration deadline” would solve many of the problems we’re trying to address with time limits and parcel size minimums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and will 5-19 go on a seven-day vote, or tabled as well?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: Is that franchulates?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, you’re right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, franchulates.
Moon Adamant: yes Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Table as well,
Pelanor Eldrich: we could 7 day franches, no?
Claude Desmoulins: A citizenship amendment would eliminate the need for franchulate time limits.
Pelanor Eldrich: ah, ok
Patroklus Murakami: yes, table surely? given that there are amendments still on the table
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, I definitely agree.
Claude Desmoulins: Hence it would need to come first.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, let’s table it, get a citizenship amendment on the COnstitution, and then proposed 5-19 can be totally rewritten
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good, good 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: We have a constitutional amendment procedure in place right. ?
Jon Seattle: Indeed.
Claude Desmoulins: Ashcroft has a draft ready.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Makes an appointment with Aliasi for Civics…
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Claude Desmoulins: See you next week.
Ashcroft Burnham: Cheerio! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjouned
Sudane Erato: 🙂
The meeting closed at 5:56 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: October 07, 2006

Meeting on 2006-10-07
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Jon Seattle: Hi Sudane. Fernando
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning all.
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle smiles brightly at Moon
Jon Seattle: Hi Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch both boxes.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I imagine Pel will be along sooner or later.
Jon Seattle: hmm.. document box is slow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… hi Gwyn 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hello Gwyn 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway. Let’s begin.
Fernando Book: Hi Gwyn 🙂
Moon Adamant: hi Gwyn 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Good afternoon Gwyn.
Claude Desmoulins: we hav two versions of Judiciary Revision here. Justice’s is minimal — Ash’s less so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: I suggest that we pass Justice’s and table Ash’s, encouraging him to submit his additional changes as a separate PCA next week.
Justice Soothsayer: mine, I hope, addresses what the SC proposed and nothing more at this time
Claude Desmoulins: That way, it we approve his additional changes and the SC takes issue, we aren’t left without Judiciary.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts?
Moon Adamant: well, the CSDF is ready to vote the SC corrections
Claude Desmoulins: Which set?
Jon Seattle: Ah, Justice’s
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Sudane Erato: hi Pel 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any additional discussion on Judiciary 2.0?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: hi Pel
Moon Adamant: hi Pel 🙂
Fernando Book: Hi Pel 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Pel 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: hiya
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor, just in the right time for a vote :))
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning Pel.
Pelanor Eldrich: Good Morning everyone! Remember, vote early and vote often. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing none… all in favor of Justice’s Judiciary 2.0…
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … Pel fell asleep.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s early korning for Pelanor, after all…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *morning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My typos have a life of their own 🙂
Jon Seattle: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: brb
Claude Desmoulins: While we wait for Pel to vote. I move we table Ash’s version/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC does not recognise “brb” as a valid vote.
Sudane Erato: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Moon Adamant: .)
Jon Seattle: No objection here
Moon Adamant: none, Claude
Justice Soothsayer: no objection
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: I also forgot reports.
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any?
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: I can report about CN
Claude Desmoulins: Why don’t you go ahead, Moon.
Moon Adamant: ok, thanks 🙂
Moon Adamant: Significant wrk has already been done
Moon Adamant: Terraforming it’s well on its way, with max and min heights having being already stablished
Pelanor Eldrich: give me 5 ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok ok ok ok ok (5 ok’s given as per request)
Claude Desmoulins: Pel can yo vote on 5-9 2?
Moon Adamant: also marking of some major builds and roads have been done
Moon Adamant waits for Pel
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, Moon
Justice Soothsayer: is there anything we can or should do to reserve the empty space for a sim between NFS and CN?
Claude Desmoulins: No one can put one there w/o our consent, right?
Sudane Erato: thats correct
Justice Soothsayer: god
Justice Soothsayer: *good
Moon Adamant smiles at Sudane
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Sudane Erato: but… it is envisgaed that when the time comes to connect them…
Moon Adamant: since Pel is afk, shall i go on?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, please.
Moon Adamant: after Sudane, that is
Sudane Erato: that we will re-locate to an entirely diff location
Sudane Erato: and re-arrange all sims according to a master plan
Sudane Erato: so the current orinetation is not important
Moon Adamant nods
Justice Soothsayer: Moon, is there a target date for opening CN lots for sale?
Moon Adamant: atm, we have decided than teh defined date shall be set around Oct the 15th
Moon Adamant: when we will assess work done
Sudane Erato: Nov
Sudane Erato: ahh… sorry yes
Moon Adamant: but we think between Nov 1st and Nov 15th
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: ok…
Justice Soothsayer: splendid
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: general plan has been revised, with only small corrections as to parcelling
Moon Adamant: and distributed to building and financial wg
Moon Adamant: financial wg is currently draftng a work budget and a pricing table
Moon Adamant: we have set also a resource archive for images for building wg
Moon Adamant: which will be available this weekend
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Fernando Book: Will it be a general sale, or we’ll have a period for citizens or buyers introduced by citizens?
Moon Adamant: fernando, the financial wg will estimate, i think, the advantages of a pre-reservation sys
Claude Desmoulins: There also may be some lots in sufficiently high demand (think waterfront villae) to merit some sort of auction.
Fernando Book: I see.
Moon Adamant: possibly
Moon Adamant: this is a matter for discussion between teh financial wg and the promotion wg
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Promotion *cough* wg *cough* 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is Brian around? 😉
Moon Adamant: we’ll tell them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Moon Adamant: anywayy hmmm
Moon Adamant: let me collect my thoughts
Moon Adamant: still on building
Moon Adamant: we have gathered volunteering for specific builds
Moon Adamant: that is, landmarks or public builds
Moon Adamant: we have also gathered volunteering for drafting specs for scripting needs
Moon Adamant: the promotion wg is also asking for volunteering for other content prduction, such as clothing, props, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Moon Adamant: promotion wg is also defining the marketing strategy
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: about Bureau wg tasks
Moon Adamant: i have insofar no information at this specific matter
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: that is more or less that
Claude Desmoulins: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn *whistles innocently*
Claude Desmoulins: Is Pel still afk?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Claude 🙂
Moon Adamant: wb Claude
Moon Adamant: the sum of report is: work is well on its way
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move on.
Sudane Erato: and it looks great!
Pelanor Eldrich: back
Justice Soothsayer: it sure does
Moon Adamant smiles at Sudane
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like tomove up 5-21 since the four after that link together.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel. Your vote on 5-9?
Pelanor Eldrich: Which is 5-9?
Claude Desmoulins: Judiciary 2.0 (Justice’s)
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Now 5-21
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bravo!
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: that was simultaneously one of the quickest and longest votes ever.
Jon Seattle: Seems like a good clarification, that is 5-21
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees.
Pelanor Eldrich: I had a wording change to the preamble of 5-21, Jon and Moon are ok with it.
Claude Desmoulins: Also means you don’t have to try to pull an RA quorum to pick amongst half a dozen dates late in the term.
Moon Adamant: yes, we are
Claude Desmoulins: What ws it?
Jon Seattle: Ah, we have two 5-21 s
Jon Seattle: lol
Moon Adamant: ah, i see!
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry 5-22 Election Scheduling.
Jon Seattle: We are working on election secduling bill
Pelanor Eldrich: My bad…proceed
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion?
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Moon Adamant: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next
Claude Desmoulins: Voting amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon and Moon.
Jon Seattle: Can we table the VA. This seems to me to be an issue that required greater discussion and perhaps a more compreshensive soluton.
Claude Desmoulins: Would this address your concerns? What would it do to the need for microplots?
Claude Desmoulins: Jon what are your issues?
Pelanor Eldrich: I personally like the strength of terminating microplots (raising the min “buy-in”) in *addition to* the voting restriction as long as it satisfies the UDHR
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that we need to address our definition of citizenship more broadly.
Moon Adamant agrees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would love to have a definition of citizenship *at all* 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s “Implied” right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really “defined”:..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And with franchulates, burghs, and whatever comes next… citizenship should be something *clear* to everyone.
Pelanor Eldrich: Wow, citizenship, and I’m kinda sorry I opened that can of worms would be something that we’d have to nail down this term to avoid the possbility of manipulating the next election if we don’t pass something.
Claude Desmoulins: I just don’t want Franchulates and group ownership and…. on ice until we wrangle this out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pel
Moon Adamant: the matter is in dscussion atm in teh CSDF, most probably a proposal shall be presented to this RA soon
Justice Soothsayer: there is a definition of citizenship in the new judiciary bill
Claude Desmoulins: Doesn’t the Judiciary act have some citizenship…
Claude Desmoulins: What he said.
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Pelanor Eldrich: right, and it works unless we redefine citizenship. Citizenship isn’t on our faction platform this term.
Moon Adamant: Justice, we are trying to define a citizenship that doesn’t rest solely on a property principle
Jon Seattle: Well, with all this expansion, it seems to me to be an important issue. Especially as we look to new non-sim forms of expansion.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can we pass some of this stuff and revisit citizenship after a bill is written and discussed. We can quickly retrofit existing bills to fit whatever the new form of citizenship is. In fact we need to do some of that for some of our 4-x bills right
Pelanor Eldrich: anyway.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Pelanor Eldrich: *now anyway.
Moon Adamant: i would like to ask about precedents on moratories
Claude Desmoulins: Moratoriums?
Moon Adamant: since Claude apparently feels that VA is needed for the other bills
Moon Adamant: and yes, Claude, sorry 🙂
Moon Adamant: if there is a precedent, we can proceed the discussion of other bills
Moon Adamant: and set them to wait for a citizenship definition
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW I have to leave in about an hour. Just FYI.
Claude Desmoulins: It just depends on which election gamingmechanism you wish to make more difficult.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which ones are available? 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: As the expert in that field…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL !
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle lol
Pelanor Eldrich: With 128m2 and a 28 day restriction I’d have to buy votes twice at the 128m2 purchase price + land use and then double it because of the before and after payment.
Pelanor Eldrich: So a lock is $5-$10 USD per vote if land is available.
Claude Desmoulins: Mircoplot abolition makes the prospective manipulator require more money.
Claude Desmoulins: Voting “registration” requires of him/her more patience.
Moon Adamant: i understand the reasoning
Pelanor Eldrich: There isn’t any real barrier to buying votes other than raising the bar. This is a RL problem as well.
Claude Desmoulins: My CDSF colleagues were the ones who suggested the problem was grave enough to require immediate attention.
Jon Seattle: True, though I would rather see it raised a little higher. And also, as important, send a signal that this kind of thing is not accepted.
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, I agree with Ranma that 128m2 equivalent should be used.
Pelanor Eldrich: At least as a starting point.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t want the desire to make our electoral system less vulnerable to push us into a broad reform of citizenship before we’ve all agreed.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s not a redefinition per se. It’s simply mplot termination.
Jon Seattle: But we also are very interested in expansion via non-sim approaches. And we see getting the citizenship definition right as key to getting acceptance for these new approaches.
Moon Adamant: the 128 figure, as said, is a handy figure, taking into account the urban plan of NFS
Claude Desmoulins: I was referring to the proposal the CSDF has said is forthcoming.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah
Sudane Erato: on a technical notre… there are 4 Platz pacels which are 96 s/m…
Moon Adamant: (btw, the CN plan was altered to comply to a 128 m2 basic land unit)
Sudane Erato: they should be grandfathered into this
Claude Desmoulins: Hmmm.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s back up.
Moon Adamant: indeed, Sudane – and one is mine, i will have to solve it too
Claude Desmoulins: Are there specific objections to a 28 day rule?
Pelanor Eldrich: You have to be a citizen to own a platz plot. If no mplots are allowed, you have to buy 128m2 reg. then a platz plot and if you sell the 128m2, you’re still paying more than the equivalent for 96m2 of platz, so it’s all good.
Jon Seattle: Ah, are we discussing the VA bill or 5-21 (2)?
Claude Desmoulins: VA
Moon Adamant: well, no specific objections per se
Justice Soothsayer: no
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m fine with it.
Moon Adamant: nevertheless, the CSDF will possibly present another proposal soon for citizenship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Look forward to it. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to move forward on it, recognizing it’s not a complete solution.
Moon Adamant: yes, claude
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on VA?
Jon Seattle: Well, since we seems to be debating this anway, shall we vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, step by step approaches are not always nice, although the past 2 weeks somehow went against that trend 😀
Pelanor Eldrich: Heheh, Pel gets his citizenship bill proposed by the CSDF, *evil wicked laugh*.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn starts to fear Pelanor :=)
Jon Seattle laughs
Pelanor Eldrich: Where is my horns attachment, heheh.
Pelanor Eldrich: vote?
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Moon Adamant: Aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Bing-Badda-Bing!
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hrrmpf
Claude Desmoulins: Now 5-19
Jon Seattle: I guess I will say a few words.
Claude Desmoulins: Who remembers where we we were on this?
Jon Seattle: This is the first in what may be a very important series of bills.
Moon Adamant: ah claude, i was hoping you could refresh my mind 🙂
Jon Seattle: Ah, we had voted to remove the limits on teritory.
Moon Adamant listens to Jon
Jon Seattle: I think we had two other proposed amendments, I do not remember the details.
Claude Desmoulins: We did some language hanges
Moon Adamant: there was a series of small corrections, i now remember
Moon Adamant: but i don’t remember which were voted
Pelanor Eldrich: Hmm
Moon Adamant: bcause we did vote some
Pelanor Eldrich: I think we got rid of 1/16, but don’t remember.
Pelanor Eldrich: I have a new objection.
Claude Desmoulins: Fortunately, theres a transcript. 🙂
Jon Seattle: runs to the wiki
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: The exec brnach can delay a application…sounds like we put applications in a queue and never turn them down if a fiscally advantageous partnership can be reached.
Moon Adamant: well, that coud be inferred from your original proposal, Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: I don’t want the borough of “Nazi Rapist Pygmy Furries” to join the CDS, I’m sorry. I want the ablility to deny an application on whatever grounds avaiable to the Exec.
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Moon Adamant: lol
Jon Seattle: Ah, has the transcript been posted? I do not see it on the wiki
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is a good argument.
Moon Adamant: ah
Moon Adamant: Jon, on the forums
Claude Desmoulins: I see it.
Claude Desmoulins: On the wiki
Moon Adamant: well, pel, and what would be causes for non-acceptance?
Sudane Erato: if the Nazi rapists complied with all the applicable documents and covenants, wouldn;t the have to be accepted?
Jon Seattle: Oh, I see it now.
Pelanor Eldrich: Declared non-democratic philosophy.
Sudane Erato: but that would imply non acceptance of our documents
Fernando Book: If we set a list of causes of non acceptance it will seem there’s an universal right to join the CDS. Is there such a right?
Pelanor Eldrich: Refusal to uphold ToS, code and constitution.
Pelanor Eldrich: Bad breath, and others.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, that is contemplated by Chapter C
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: exacvtl;y Moon
Moon Adamant: except bad breath
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think there is only a list of clauses for *acceptance*, not the reverse.
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that any application has to support all of our constitution including the UN universal bill of rights.
Sudane Erato: exactly
Moon Adamant: it has indeed
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like the chancellor (or someone) to be able to say no.
Moon Adamant: actually, i now remember that one of the corrections
Claude Desmoulins: OK. We dropped the 1/16th rule and did language changes.
Moon Adamant: was to change ‘implies’ to ‘mandates’ in chapter C
Moon Adamant: so we have a stronger emphasis
Claude Desmoulins: Yes

Jon Seattle: But here is a question. Say a Nazi group claimed to support the UN bill of rights. Is it just up to them to certify that acceptance?
Sudane Erato: until they demonstarte that they do not indeed support it, i would think yes
Moon Adamant: i agree with you
Moon Adamant: i am also remembering
Pelanor Eldrich: I see it as joining the EU. You have to jump through a few hoops if you’re questionable.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: wan’t there a suggestion that a chapter would have to be licensed as well?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jon, this is exactly the same thing as claiming to accept the constitution & laws when you “join up” as a citizen…
Moon Adamant: notarised, that is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Charter you mean, Moon?
Moon Adamant: yes, sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think that was the idea: charter + covenants.
Jon Seattle: Gwyn. indeed. Say, a noted greifer claimed a change of heart one day..
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I want it understood that obtaining a franch is not an inalienable right to any SL resident. It is a privilege conferred by the CDS to compatible applicants.
Sudane Erato: Pel, then we have to define compatible
Moon Adamant: teh charter i think, would contain an explicit declaration of acceptance of our codes, Const and TOS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, Jon. If Plastic Duck logs in and says he’ll comply bythe CDS’ rules, well, so long as Plastic accepts them… we can’t do anything about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon, indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor… I agree. However,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is to validate acceptability
Moon Adamant: of course, in case of disrespect to this acceptance, then sanctions would be set
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other is to reject an application based on things that the Exec “does not like”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the Exec would have to explain why the reasoning.
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, I agree also. The exec should be limited in why she might reject an application.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if a franchulate agrees upon everything… and the tier fees are currently favourable…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning: there is no solid, objective reason NOT to deny an application…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just subjective ones… well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Giving the Exec the power to reject an aplication based on subjective feelings, well, it’s a road I would avoid to walk.
Claude Desmoulins: I thought the acceptance proviion was originally designed to notforce CDS to take on a franchulate in an unfavorable tier situation.
Moon Adamant: and so it was our understanding from the original wording of teh franchulate bill
Jon Seattle: Here is what I propose. The Exec would have no power in the regard. The RA would have a period of 28 days to reject an application on a majority vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Claude. And only then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Jon. Well, why not.
Jon Seattle: In particular for doubts about the sincerity of supporting the constitution.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, the RA has some powers to override a “bad” decision of the Exec 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes. Ok, Jon I’d go with that. Maybe trigger that vote with a recommendation from the Chancellor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh that is a dangerous path as well, Jon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: People are innocent until proven otherwise ? in a court 🙂
Moon Adamant: hmmm, wan’t there some discussion about the Charter being cleared by the RA last week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not based on “personal feelings that they might violate the law in a moment in the future”
Claude Desmoulins: Does one really want the RA looking at eery franchulate app?
Moon Adamant: not all apps Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: Only those the Chancellor has a beef with, not that I expect a stampede or anything.
Moon Adamant: but it culd be a step, after a previous selection
Moon Adamant: done by Chancellor
Claude Desmoulins: Ah.
Jon Seattle: Here is what I fear: the population of NFS may reject this bill because it leaves the door way too open to, say, Nazi groups or greifers.
Moon Adamant: say that you have these guys that apply but in first chat they immediately say they won’t uphold our codes…
Claude Desmoulins: So essentially you’d like a provision to empower the RA to review rejections?
Moon Adamant: brb
Jon Seattle: Yes.
Jon Seattle: Actually, the RA should do the rejecting process.
Moon Adamant: back
Jon Seattle: I would not get the exec involved, because she is only one person.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right. We’re basically talking about annexation here. It’s a case by case review on mulitiple grounds if questionable. The Czech republic joins Slovakia, a compatible partner, not the Sultanship of Brunei.
Claude Desmoulins: if the RA does the rejecting…
Claude Desmoulins: how can you avoid the RA looking at every app?
Moon Adamant: what about doing it otherwise?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. This is a rather hard issue, Jon.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s all good unless the Chancellor objects to a particlular app, then the RA looks at it for a vote.
Moon Adamant: if teh Exec rejects, and the applicant requests, RA will look at it?
Jon Seattle: I will note, that offically the RA has this power anyway. That we are mearly making in plain in the language of the bill.
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a list of requirements. Compliance with our institutions and code of laws.
Sudane Erato: hi Ranma
Pelanor Eldrich: sure, only the RA can reject.
Justice Soothsayer: hi Ranma
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Ranma
Ranma Tardis: Hi Sudane
Jon Seattle: Hi Ranma
Moon Adamant: hi Ranma 🙂
Ranma Tardis: Hi 🙂
Moon Adamant: suggestion of a procedure:
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning
Jon Seattle: And, I would also note that the RA does not require the exec to make such a decision.
Moon Adamant: the applicant fills in the papers, the Exec must give an answer in one month about applicability
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok so far…
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi Ranma. 🙂
Moon Adamant: if applicability is not recognised, then the applicant has 15 days to subject the application to RA
Moon Adamant: criteria for applicability are those stated
Claude Desmoulins: With the tier exception?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to interrupt briefly. I’m not against “investigating people’s past” in order to verify applicability. ie. if a certain group is well-established, publicly so, that they don’t care about any rules, but still say they will comply with *ours*, well,
Jon Seattle: Oh, I want to make sure that the RA may reject an applicant that has been accepted by the executive. Very important.
Moon Adamant: Claude, one thing at the time, please
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would be certainly a reason for not validating an application.
Moon Adamant: criteria can be discussed as a whole
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, ok Jon.
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Pelanor Eldrich: Can the RA accept an applicant rejected by the Exec? (no right)
Pelanor Eldrich: *no, right?
Jon Seattle: Pel, of course.. we could always pass a bill ..
Moon Adamant: that is what we are discussing, lol – i would say we could with a qualified vote, maybe
Claude Desmoulins: I want to make sure the 15 day appeal doesn’t apply to finance. Should the RA be able to force the exec to accept an app that costs CDS money?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, throw that all in there and I’m fine with it.
Moon Adamant: ah, let’s think finance then
Moon Adamant: i think that escrows should be deposited only after applicability
Pelanor Eldrich: I initially wanted to give the exec more financial policy power. You all rightly pointed out that I don’t want the Pres unilaterally setting my taxes.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: so you would hmmm
Moon Adamant: have two phases, at least
Moon Adamant: one: applicability
Moon Adamant: two: the upper phases of process, ie, escrow, notarising, land transfer
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, verify money is green and lack of stank breath.
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: between the two, i think the RA check could be inserted
Moon Adamant: what do you think?
Pelanor Eldrich: Detailed halitosis verification (with vote).
Moon Adamant: lol, people will come here and breath on your face, pel .9
Justice Soothsayer: heh
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: At the moment the only grounds for the exec to delay an application are financial.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll find a civil servant for that part. eeeewwwwwwww.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Financial, and non-compliance with the rules. If someone says “no, I won’t bow to your legal jurisdction” they are out.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Moon Adamant: but the Chpater C implies another criteria for applicability
Moon Adamant: though i agree that it can be more reforced
Claude Desmoulins: Ah.
Moon Adamant: actually, teh bill can have a chapter for criteria
Claude Desmoulins: So do you have an amendment on the floor?
Claude Desmoulins: And can you reword for clarity?
Justice Soothsayer: yes, we need to see an amended version of the bill
Pelanor Eldrich: I have 30 mins.
Claude Desmoulins: *restate
Moon Adamant: say that you set a chapter D – criteria for Acceptance of Applications
Pelanor Eldrich: PS, sorry i didn’t bring this up earlier.
Moon Adamant: that has two articles
Claude Desmoulins: Personally it seems to me that these issues are rather substantive.
Moon Adamant: one is that the applicants must accept, validate and uphold the codes, etc, in their proposed Charters
Moon Adamant: second is that there must be a financially favourable situtation
Pelanor Eldrich: works for me
Claude Desmoulins: RA can override either?
Moon Adamant: so teh Exec can check aplicability against those two criteria
Claude Desmoulins: IS that an amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: All I care about is that someone can say now on reasonable grounds.
Pelanor Eldrich: *no
Jon Seattle: Well, overriding the first would be a constitutional question. If we doubt the sincerity of their acceptance of our laws, then we cannot make them part of the CDS.
Moon Adamant: well, we can vote this amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but those doubts need to be reasoned…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, “I don’t like your bad breath” is NOT a valid argument.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Pel 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is this the chapter D amendment?
Moon Adamant: yes, it should be set higher… *likes organised docs*
Moon Adamant: but mind you
Moon Adamant: this ony defines criteria
Moon Adamant: we will have to return to the discussion on checks
Claude Desmoulins: So you;d lie us to vote on Chapter D?
Jon Seattle: I suggest we table and have Moon draft the amendment.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙁
Pelanor Eldrich: sigh..ok
Moon Adamant: yes, then the new draft can incorporate all revisions voted
Jon Seattle: Do we want any other changes before we go into this final revision?
Pelanor Eldrich: Franches, the bill that just won’t die.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that suggestion is more reasonable. From what I’m hearing, there is still a lot of disagreement 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww poor Pel
Claude Desmoulins: What do we want to do in time limiits?
Claude Desmoulins: I disagree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not an easy one, you know?
Claude Desmoulins: 1. Criteria – Acceptance of laws/const/codes and financial suitability.
Moon Adamant: what do you suggest Claude?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens
Jon Seattle: I will say, personally, this is a bill that I want very much to pass. But we must do it right.
Moon Adamant: ok
Pelanor Eldrich: You realize if we delay it, Ash will weigh in. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: 2- Process /timing – Exec has 30 days to accept/reject. Applicant then has 15 days to appeal to RA Which must decide the appeal at its next mtg.
Moon Adamant: nods
Claude Desmoulins: 3 – drop the three month time limit.
Moon Adamant: ah, i remeber now
Jon Seattle: I think we are close enough that this need not be re-debated in the forum from scratch. We have some (rather minor) changes that make plain the powers that the RA already has.
Justice Soothsayer: can we move this to 7-day and do a final version via email?
Moon Adamant: there was also your suggestion for an one-off now because of pending applicatons that have appeared since5-3 was voted
Moon Adamant: what would be the time limit then?
Jon Seattle supports Justice’s suggestion
Moon Adamant: well, now it has to be 28 days, for fairness
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need one since we now have voter registration?
Justice Soothsayer: since Moon needs the time to review all the wikis and draft a final version
Jon Seattle: brb
Moon Adamant: indeed claude, all citizens must have same rights
Claude Desmoulins: So ordered, Any one person can move to 7 day,
Moon Adamant: and fine by me about 7-day
Pelanor Eldrich: Fine with me. The applicants have waited 8 months, if they’re even still in SL, they can wait another week.
Claude Desmoulins: How much time do people have left.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Sudane Erato: 10 min here
Justice Soothsayer: about the same
Pelanor Eldrich: ditto
Moon Adamant: hmmm i should make lunch happen, but it’s really your time that matters 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Can we get through group ownership?
Moon Adamant: sure, i’ll look at franch
Jon Seattle: back
Pelanor Eldrich: lets try
Jon Seattle: yes, please
Jon Seattle Smiles
Claude Desmoulins: Should we change NFS to CDS? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Jon Seattle: Ah, I am still a little confused about the terminology. Sure.
Claude Desmoulins: So that’s a friendly.
Jon Seattle: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, I notice commercial organizations aren’t included.
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, and I’m fine with the lang. You may want to change 128m2 to “the minimum citizenship requirements” (just in case we end up tweaking that).
Jon Seattle: Claude, my understanding is that commercial organizations are covered by another code. As they should be I think.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s 4-11 and needs some amending in the future to accomodate some of the changes we’ve made.
Pelanor Eldrich: Actually all codes need to have Neualtenburg stricken and replaced.
Jon Seattle: This is intended to extend the right of group ownership to volunary groups an couples.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: nope
Moon Adamant: me neither
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Moon Adamant: Aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: We can friendly amend later if needed.
Jon Seattle: Yes. Oh, also we should next meeting do something about the language change in past laws.. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I have very mixed feelings on microplot abolition.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok, with the preamble changes I’ve discussed with Jon and Moon.
Jon Seattle: Pel as a friendly amendment to 5-21 (2)
Sudane Erato: i think it is entirely tied up with citizenship definition
Claude Desmoulins: I understand the concern, but…
Moon Adamant listens to everyone
Moon Adamant: but Claude
Claude Desmoulins: …I wonder how much the VA amendment solves the problem. And…
Moon Adamant: to which article expressly do you object?
Moon Adamant: there is unanimit that the minimal land unit should be 128 m2, or there abouts
Claude Desmoulins: For example, I own 300 something m2 and never use it.
Moon Adamant: ok…
Moon Adamant: i am listening
Pelanor Eldrich: Speaking as the expert in election rigging, I’d like to see microplots abolished.
Jon Seattle: Claude, but you should! Building is a fine thing.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m an ideal candidate to tier down as it were.
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer to push paper 🙂
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m not sure I follow the argument.
Moon Adamant: btw, once again: citizens’ acquired rights are NOT put in question with this bill
Jon Seattle: I would like to see them absolished, in part, because I do think we are about creating a shared 3D space. Oh, debate in the forums is nice too, but we could after all do that without second life.
Claude Desmoulins: We all know of citizens who’ve left because of RL budget issues.
Moon Adamant: hmmm Claude, 128 m2 is USD 1 per month
Moon Adamant: that is not an argument
Pelanor Eldrich: Ranma does make a good point. If you can’t spend a cup of coffee of month on the CDS, what kind of civic commitment do you have anyway?
Pelanor Eldrich: *per
Jon Seattle agrees with Pel
Moon Adamant: you can raise lindens enough to pay it in camping chairs and avatar contests, if need be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to second Jon on this… SL is not about being a “forum debating society”…
Pelanor Eldrich: I agree with Gywn and have been gmailing and foruming too much in comparison to being in-world.
Claude Desmoulins: I wanted to raise the issue.
Moon Adamant: yes, i do agree that our territory is part of the ‘whole’ that is the CDS project
Moon Adamant: claude, about money issues: we can discuss also, at some later occasion, teh possibility to have jobs in teh CDS
Moon Adamant: we have some already: the Civil service roles
Claude Desmoulins: Ialso don’t want to shut the microplot door until franchulates is open.
Claude Desmoulins: We have a few.
Moon Adamant: others occur to me: tourist guides, say
Claude Desmoulins: We’re clear that this bill will not force any current microplot owner off their plot.
Moon Adamant: most clear on that 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think the work idea could be a very good thing. At least the citizen would get some land for a home.
Jon Seattle: Claude, indeed we are.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need an amendment banning sale of microplots to other avatars?
Claude Desmoulins: Else they become a hot commodity.
Moon Adamant: no, i think 1 covers it
Claude Desmoulins: It does.
Moon Adamant: though mabe the ‘should’ should be replaced by ‘will not’
Moon Adamant: maybe*
Pelanor Eldrich: Right. 4 should read “the citizen expansion act (microplots)” with a bill reference.
Claude Desmoulins: Probably.
Jon Seattle: How about “will no longer”
Pelanor Eldrich: 1. CDS
Moon Adamant: exactly, Jon 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, also CDS
Moon Adamant: and yes, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Jon do you consider all these friendlies?
Pelanor Eldrich: Oh, yeah, and my preamble change.
Claude Desmoulins: Please remind me.
Justice Soothsayer: 1. The sale of microplots by CDS or by citizens is abolished.
Jon Seattle: Yes, the preample change and these wording changes.
Jon Seattle: All friendly.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the preamble change?
Jon Seattle: Pel?
Justice Soothsayer: change NFS to CDS in preamble and elsewhere
Claude Desmoulins: Ah,
Jon Seattle: Pel has a change about the purpose of the bill.
Jon Seattle: Let me see if I can pull up his language. One second.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s minor, it’s basically (Moon has it)…Reason for microplot was to increase population of CDS. In order to minimize potential for election fraud and to foster a committed and civic minded citizenry, blah blah is repealed and replaced as follows:
Pelanor Eldrich: Something like that.
Jon Seattle: The new language is:
Jon Seattle: to avoid the potential for electoral abuse and to ensure a committed, civic minded citenzry, we hereby repeal 4-11 (the citizen expansion act) and replace it as follows:
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Needed it for the record.
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: It doesn’t change the substance, and most importantly, makes me look better for posterity.
Moon Adamant: none here
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: prrftftt
Justice Soothsayer: ready to vote
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Moon Adamant: Aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: franchulates is in seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: let’s do referenda first thing next week.
Jon Seattle nods
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjopurnment?
Pelanor Eldrich: nods
Moon Adamant: none
Claude Desmoulins: *adjournment
Pelanor Eldrich: none
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I may have trouble attending next week, can we make it 2 weeks?
Jon Seattle: Yes, please
Sudane Erato: sorry… must run
Sudane Erato: bye all! 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: bye
Jon Seattle: Bye Sudane
Moon Adamant: bye Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Two weeks is my wife’s birthday weekend.
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll be in a hotel & not sure if I’ll have access
Justice Soothsayer: but we can try
Jon Seattle smiles at Sundane
Claude Desmoulins: I may be away from my SL capable machine that weekend.
Pelanor Eldrich: gotta run, RL consitutional conference at the local law school.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned
Moon Adamant: bye pel, have fun 🙂
The meeting closed at 6:5 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: October 14, 2006

Meeting on 2006-10-14
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: lol pel
Claude Desmoulins: Everything is going to seven day, due to Justice’s absence.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s begin.
Ashcroft Burnham: That makes things very difficult.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very much so 😛
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: claude, coudld you explain the reasoning for that?
Pelanor Eldrich: I feel we should still have this meeting and discuss the issues here.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: We can – and vote on it.
Claude Desmoulins: The procedures are written such that any RA member may, in advance of a meeting, request that any or all items be voted on in seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: Justice has so requested.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “It is, indeed, the procedure” 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: This really is extremely unhelpful.
Patroklus Murakami: who gets to decide? is that option always there? could be misused to delay legislation
Claude Desmoulins: Only by seven days.
Pelanor Eldrich: We could firm it all up in this discussion and vote on it via email tonight. No biggie.
Ashcroft Burnham: The problem with the seven day procedure is that it is all less public. There is no public meeting before people vote. There is always the possibility of private conversations between people on the subject of what they are going to vote on on which…
Ashcroft Burnham: …others have no chance to comment.
Patroklus Murakami: you have a quorum, you’re a legislative body, you should legislate. but if that’s the procedure i guess there’s nothing than can be done *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Pat, as much as I dislike the idea, there is obviously a “common sense” here. You could, in effect, delay 7 days, table for the next meeting, then delay again, or even refuse to accept new bills
Claude Desmoulins: That possibility exists even in world.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But an RA that uses that trick all the time, well, would probably get a reprimand 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: First, are there any reports?
Moon Adamant: i can report briefly on CN
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Moon Adamant: ok
Pelanor Eldrich: Have we formally installed the chancellor? I promise pomp later.
Sudane Erato: haha
Moon Adamant: we ara ahead of schedule in building, since yesterday was the deadline for having the terraforming and parcelling
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: and that is done long ago, thanks to Sudane
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Moon Adamant: we are at this moment already building some of the final structures, such as bridge, roads, city walls and gates
Moon Adamant: also some housing
Moon Adamant: and have also determined some of teh special buildings
Moon Adamant: budget is being corrected now as well, and a pricing list is being done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Moon Adamant: tehre is a promotion strategy being set, and we have an unofficial blog, thanks to Brian
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Moon Adamant: let me see if i can retrieve the url for you
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent…
Moon Adamant: ok, will in a minute
Moon Adamant: at tomorrow’s SPC
Moon Adamant: we will stablish teh rest of teh schedule
Sudane Erato: yes!
Moon Adamant: namely, the dates for start of promotion campaign and sales, and the opening to public
Moon Adamant: btw, SPC meeting tomorrow is at usual hour, 1 PM
Moon Adamant: in Colonia Nova
Moon Adamant: that’s it
Moon Adamant: let em get the url for you
Claude Desmoulins: I have two things.
Moon Adamant: http://colonianova.wordpress.com/
Moon Adamant listens
Claude Desmoulins: First per the change in election scheduling…
Claude Desmoulins: The polls will open January 13 and the deadline for declaring candidacy/start of the campaign is December 29.
Moon Adamant: nods
Claude Desmoulins: Can’t say you weren’t warned.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Second, The revised franchulate bill has passed.
Claude Desmoulins: Any other reports or announcements?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The world is not coming to an end tomorrow? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: No. That’s next week.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Whew
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins looks puzzled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is something very very marginal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but something that a few members of Neufreistadt are actively involved in, so perhaps I can comment a bit on it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you wish?
Claude Desmoulins: Sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SL Chamber of Commerce
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this has been a project by Chili Carson, an accountant iRL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: who is trying very painfully to set up a SL Chamber of COmmerce
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mostly promotion, advertising and information, support for RL businesses that come to SL, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not unsurprisingly, half of the members of the organising team are NFSers
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ashcroft even suggested that mediation services could be offered by the NFS legal system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as an option
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, not strictly mediation…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and NFS would probably have a “local branch” of the SL CoC in NFS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… arbitration
Ashcroft Burnham: Although, I suppose, if the PJSP organised mediation services, those could be offered, too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, this project received a serious blow this past week,
Sudane Erato: yes
Ashcroft Burnham: I suggested that the CoC suggest that if people wanted binding dispute resolution that they enfranchulate with us 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since Chili Carson, due to RL commitments, will not have much time to continue it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Oh 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… this is NOT an “NFS” thingy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and some of the other non-NFS members are interested in continuing nevertheless. The issue here is… we could naturally go ahead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and very easily embrace the project, but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … then it would become a NFS-only thingy
Sudane Erato: yes… which would limit its effectiveness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Besides Ash and myself we also have Zeus and Rudy as members there. And indeed, Sudane, my fears exactly.
Patroklus Murakami: any active ppl from outside NFS?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, perhaps we could discuss a bit at the forums, if we want to make a statement about it, offer help officially, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, two
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one is a member of the Las Vegas chamber of commerce (Thor Eldrich)
Ashcroft Burnham: Maybe Zeus’s SLJobFinder could help to find people for it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other, Hunter Glass, is a business manager or an accountant, I believe.
Fernando Book: Is there any possibilty to involve some of the big fishes that are coming to SL, like Sun, that has just opened its pavillion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be the idea, Fernando. There is already some work done to organise things ? http://slcocincubator.info
Claude Desmoulins: I doubt they’re intereested.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We were starting to discuss promotion and advertising strategies.
Pelanor Eldrich: Hmmm, what if we all kind of worked on it here, but Gwyn or some other CDSer represent us there to avoid it looking like a big CDS only project.
Claude Desmoulins: They have their RL reputation and branding, what do they need with this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Know-how, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How to approach a new medium for advertising and business.
Ashcroft Burnham: I suspect that the CoC would be more useful for, and popular with, SL-only businesses.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, both, actually, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean ? *some* companies coming to SL work on private sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for their own, private, customers. They’re isolated from the grid. These would not need much input from anything like SL CoC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s talk about it on the forums.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Now back to everyone’s favorite item…
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn cheers 😀
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle nods
Claude Desmoulins: There’s one thing in the PJSP impeachment provision about which I’m concerned.
Ashcroft Burnham: What’s that?
Claude Desmoulins: the appearence clause.
Ashcroft Burnham: Let me find the exact words…
Ashcroft Burnham: on the grounds on the grounds of gross incompetence, gross dereliction of duty, corruption, or conduct (arising at any time after the member publicly stated an intention to stand for election to the Public Judiciary Scrutiny Panel) tending to undermine..
Ashcroft Burnham: the independence or impartiality of the judiciary of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, or appearing so to undermine
Ashcroft Burnham: Is it the “or appearing so to undermine” bit?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Claude Desmoulins: It seems to me a low and vague threshhold.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus prone to abuse?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, i would say so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or better… if people appear to “undermine” the system, that should be proved during the impeachment procedure?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm… I have thought about that part – it may be somewhat redundant in any case because of the use of “tending to undermine” rather than “undermining”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … while “appearing to undermine”, well, that doesn’t need “proof”, just personal opinion 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Ash
Claude Desmoulins: I think you should have to prove that someone was actually undermining in order to impeach them.
Jon Seattle: I suppose this is intended to handle the situation where the PJSP appears to have lost its impartiality.
Pelanor Eldrich: Claude, sorry, Rock/Paper/Scissors really should be on today’s agenda.
Ashcroft Burnham: Having thought about it, it’s probably not necessary to add “or appearing so to undermine” if the test is conduct that *tends* to undermine the independence, etc., rather than having to wait until that independence has already been undermined, and…
Ashcroft Burnham: …only shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, I forgot to send you the notecard, ok, my bad.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Jon, but when it “appears to lose impartiality”, the burden of proof falls on the entity issuing the impeachment. They should be able to prove, in an impeachment court, that “due to this and that, the PJSP is undermining the system”
Ashcroft Burnham: So, if we can impeach for conduct of the sort that inherently has the capacity to undermine, then, as long as we don’t have to show that independence has already been compromised, then we probably don’t need to have something that says “or appearing…
Ashcroft Burnham: …so to undermine”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn tends to agree with Ash and Claude on this.
Claude Desmoulins: It says tends to undermine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn appears to tend to agree… 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, English is such a lovely language 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Quite 😉
Sudane Erato: haha
Ashcroft Burnham: So, in any event, having considered the matter, I’m happy for “or appearing so to undermine” to be removed, provided that the rest remains in tact.
Claude Desmoulins: I would offer an amendment to strike those five words (or appearing to so undermine)
Ashcroft Burnham: I have no objections to that.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Ashcroft Burnham: Might I make a suggestion as to procedure at this juncture?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7 days vote…
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – since we have waited a long time for this bill, why don’t we make the 7 day procedure as fast as possible using the following means:
Ashcroft Burnham: All those who are here indicate now what they will vote on the matter on the 7 day rule, and submit their votes by e-mail forthwith. Then Claude encourage Justice to do the same as soon as he can 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, when is the next SC meeting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, none is set now, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: I have one further question as well.
Ashcroft Burnham: I suspect that it might depend on when this matter is finalised…
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes… 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: What was it? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, if this goes on a 7 day vote, the SC will only meet next week, I’m afraid.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s why I made my expedition suggestion, with the hope of getting this all finalised by the end of this week-end at the latest.
Claude Desmoulins: This regards what the judicial independence language and clarifying what it means… my concern is that if it is broadly interpreted and agressively applied, it reduces the PJSP election to a “nice guy” contest.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but if every member of the RA votes later today by email, well, I think we could manage an emergency meeting of the SC tomorrow. It’s almost impossible to get all members to agree on a single time, but 3 out of 4 is usually quickly settled.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the interpretation and application is a matter for teh Court of Scientific Council.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, you’ll have to ask Gwyn how she anticipates it being interpreted and applied 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh LOL
Pelanor Eldrich: In other words, does it pass Diane’s smell test?
Claude Desmoulins: I was also concerned that the judicial authorities could use threat of impeachment to squelch the speech of members of the PJSP. For example….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pel, Dianne has been silent mostly, although she made that nice mug that I’ve placed on the table 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Welcome back 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Might a very sensitive judiciary threaten impeachment proceedings against a pJSP candidate who speaks out on some issue tangential to the judiciary (size of courthouses or something)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Sudane 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Although, missing textures 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: ,,
Moon Adamant: wb Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your point, Claude,
Sudane Erato: sorry
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: people can threaten people with anything.
Claude Desmoulins: alleging that in so doing they are revealing bias ?
Ashcroft Burnham: The question is whether the threat will be serious or not.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, I might add that the power to “threaten” impeachment exists for everything else.
Ashcroft Burnham: Whether the threat will be serious or not depends on whether there is any real chance on the Court of Scientific Council finding against somebody on such a basis.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I would also believe that an entity trying to “threaten” the PJSP with impeachment all the time,
Claude Desmoulins: Let me give another example of this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would be in fact abusing a power,
Ashcroft Burnham: If you don’t trust the Court of Scientific Council to get it right, then why do you want to invest any authority in them at all?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thus also subject to impeachment as well by other entities.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, Gwyn, quite: improper threats might also be a sign of bias.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
Ashcroft Burnham: And Claude, even if you think that that’s a proble, what solution do you imagine that’s consistent with preserving judicial independence?
Ashcroft Burnham: (Problem, even)
Claude Desmoulins: Hence my attempt to get a handle on where the juducal independence line is.
Fernando Book: Perhaps we can give the SC the power to sanction the impeacher if he brings a cases on very feeble grounds and only to harm.
Fernando Book: *a case
Ashcroft Burnham: Shall I give you some examples of my view on the matter? That won’t be determinative, but it’ll give an idea of what I intended, at least.
Claude Desmoulins: I agree that saying ” I’ll select Bob” is inappropriate,
Claude Desmoulins: Sure, Ash.
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando: hopefully, the unsuccessful party will have to pay costs, and hopeless cases should be able to be struck out at an early stage.
Ashcroft Burnham: Things that *would* undermine independence include:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Fernando, I think that that power already exists 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: (1) “I will only appoint Marxist juges”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry Ash I’ll hush)
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Ashcroft Burnham: (2) “I will only appoint judges who will favour the interests of businesses over consumers”.
Ashcroft Burnham: (3) “I will only appoint judges who will let me win if I bring a case”.
Ashcroft Burnham: (4) “I will not appoint any judges who live in the US because I don’t like their legal philosophy over there”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: Things that *would not* undermine judicial indepencdence include:
Ashcroft Burnham: (1) “I will only appoint judges who are not only intelligent, but are realistic in their approach, and are fair-minded”.
Ashcroft Burnham: (2) “I will seek to appoint judges who have enough free time provide a proper service”.
Ashcroft Burnham: (3) “I will not appoint any judges who I think would be so rude as to be uncivil to litigants in court”.
Ashcroft Burnham: (4) “I will watch the judiciary very carefully, and bring impeachment proceedings against any judge who shows any signs of bias”.
Ashcroft Burnham: I hope that that’s clear 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think that is rather clear,
Claude Desmoulins: OK. I like what I’m hearing. Tell me if I have it right…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: judicial independence, in this context, is more “not showing favours to a group or to individuals”, and not necessarily specific personality aspects of the judge(s)
Ashcroft Burnham: And, Gwyn, also not using judiical selection to achieve legislative aims.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think that is also right.
Ashcroft Burnham: (I.e., not using judicial selection to achieve what only legislation or executive action should be capable of doing)(.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, I mean, that would also be an “abuse” of powers.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, quite.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hence the example about Marxist judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, these are good guidelines, Ash.
Claude Desmoulins: Undermining independence is in essence making statements that juge selection will be based on nationality, political philosophy, or other criteria which would indicate how a judge is likely to decide a specific case
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is that an accurate summary?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should something be added for clarification on the Act?
Ashcroft Burnham: It is.
Claude Desmoulins: Could we append it as an appositve after…
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, what sort of thing had you in mind?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That phrase of yours, Claude, seems a good point to add.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A definition of “judicial independence”: “Undermining independence is in essence making statements that juge selection will be based on nationality, political philosophy, or other criteria which would indicate how a judge is likely to decide a specific
Gwyneth Llewelyn: case.”
Claude Desmoulins: Yep.

Ashcroft Burnham: That’s too narrow, because judicial independence is not just about selection, although that is the most important part.
Ashcroft Burnham: And “a specific case” is ambiguous, because it could be read as referring to a particular case that the members of the PJSP have in mind at the time.
Ashcroft Burnham: And “in essence” is redundant.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Undermining independence includes, but is not limited to, making statements that judge selection will be based….”
Claude Desmoulins: How about ..
Claude Desmoulins: decisions as a member of the pjsp
Claude Desmoulins: iinsted of judge selection.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hold on a second whilst I think of a form of words…
Gwyneth Llewelyn waits with a smile on her lips 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: “Judicial independence, for the purposes of section whatever number it is is the independence of the judiciary from external pressure as to how contested points in individual cases are decided”.
Claude Desmoulins: Undermining independence is making statements that PJSP decisions will be based on nationality, political philosophy, or other criteria which would indicate how a judge is likely to decide a specific case
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, I should add at the end, “or the procedure by which they are decided”.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash, would your wording cover exclusion based on Marxism or RL nationality?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, since Marxist judges would tend to (one would assume) decide contested legal points in cases in ways that are consistent with the Marxist philosophy.
Ashcroft Burnham: Similarly, a US judge might be more likely to decide contested points in individual cases in ways more consistent with a philosophy that praveails in the US.
Ashcroft Burnham: Prevails, even.
Claude Desmoulins: How does the rest of the RA feel about this?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, “points” should be matters, so it should read:
Ashcroft Burnham: ” “Judicial independence, for the purposes of section whatever number it is is the independence of the judiciary from external pressure as to how contested matters in individual cases are decided, or the procedure by which they are decided”.
Pelanor Eldrich: would be a Groucho Marxist judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! :-p
Moon Adamant: lol pel!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmpppfffff
Ashcroft Burnham: (This wouldn’t actually stop Marxist or US judges being appointed, of course, but would stop members of the PJSP appointing judges *because* they are Marxist or from the US).
Claude Desmoulins: I’m fine w/ Ash’s language as friendly substitute to my amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good point Ash.
Moon Adamant: i definely suppor grouchomarxism as a viable political standing 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Or at least saying they would do so.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Ashcroft Burnham: The extra wording should be inserted paranthetically in the relevant clauses so that it reads…
Jon Seattle invents marxist neo-liberal jeffersonian environmentalism just to see if it works.
Ashcroft Burnham: “…tending to undermine the independence or impartiality of the judiciary… (where “independence” shall mean wording as above).
Ashcroft Burnham: ”
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll vote seven day on it as well. Of course.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ lastly concerned about jury duty.
Claude Desmoulins: *I’m
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s a new concern that wasn’t raised at previous meetings, and that hasn’t been the subject of any SC reference.
Claude Desmoulins: We have no history of compulsion in CDS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, would this phrase/item/clarificatio be inserted between section 19. and 20.?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at juries now.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, one can’t have trial by jury without requiring people to do jury duty.
Ashcroft Burnham: Trial by jury is *already* part of the constitution.
Ashcroft Burnham: It was before I came.
Ashcroft Burnham: Potential jurors will have the right to show cause to a judge as to why he or she should not have to undertake jury duty.
Ashcroft Burnham: RL commitments would be considered a sufficient reason.
Ashcroft Burnham: (Provided that they were not “I’ve decided to go for a long walk to avoid jury duty”, or the like…)
Claude Desmoulins: That was my concern.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: III, 6.: “… Hearings and trials not involving government officials will be overseen by a single Professor and judgment will be decided by a jury of peers.”
Moon Adamant: hmmmm… i see the number of rl commitments skyrocketing… 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: There could always be some provision (not in the constitution, but perhaps as an amendment to the Judiciary and Scientific Council (Finance) Bill, providing for compensation for jurors.
Ashcroft Burnham: My point has always been that we don’t know whether it’s practical or not until we try it, and there’s no reason to give up without even trying, given the great benefits that jury trial brings.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When I read the proposed new method for juries, what I saw was the one getting “jury duty” could simply go to a Judge and declare they had some commitments and get an exemption from jury duty.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops. We lost our LRA 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s a possibility: if nearly everyone was very keen to avoid jury duty, the system wouldn’t work.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙁
Moon Adamant: and as you can’t enquire about other people’s RL…
Fernando Book: Can’t we link the jury duty to a right, perhaps the right to vote?
Ashcroft Burnham: *But* the judiciary wouldn’t break down, because jury trial is not compulsory, but optional.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon is right on that.
Jon Seattle nods and agrees with Moon
Ashcroft Burnham: We wouldn’t be enquiring about anything 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm fernando, let’s hear your suggestion.
Jon Seattle: What are the estimated needs for jury members during the first six months of operation?
Ashcroft Burnham: We’d serve people a jury summons, and if they wanted to be excused, they’d have to give a reason.
Ashcroft Burnham: That reason may or may not be an RL reason.
Moon Adamant: Ash, i meant that the Rl commitment would be the perfect, unprovable excuse 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jon, we DO have a case ready to be tried, and I’m quite sure it would benefit from a jury 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon is right.
Jon Seattle indeed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: quite. If people were going to lie just to get out of jury service in sufficient numbers, we wouldn’t be able to have jury trials. But people may not do that. People may feel more loyalty towards us than that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You could always come up with an RL excuse.
Moon Adamant: i do hope so, ash
Fernando Book: If someone doesn’t want to be a jury, and doesn’t provide a satisfactory cause for exemption, he could be deprived of the right to vote in the next elections.
Ashcroft Burnham: They might not, but, if they don’t, we’re in no worse a position than if we don’t make provision for jury trial in the first place.
Moon Adamant: sure
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, interesting idea, Fernando. I was thinking more of a fine, actually…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Fernando’s idea is intriguing 🙂 Jury duty is a *duty* ? if you fail your duty, that’s fine, but you get a suspension of one of your rights.
Jon Seattle: Fernando, I would not be in favor of that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s dangerous, though.
Jon Seattle: Quite dangerous.
Moon Adamant: it could be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would personally favour a fine.
Ashcroft Burnham: A fine is probably safer and more democratic. One should have to do something serious enough to warrant banishment to lose the right to vote 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, a fine sounds like a better option
Fernando Book: But fines are a way for the richer to scape from a duty…
Fernando Book: *escape
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s set the fine at, oh, say, L$500,000 if you have a valid excuse, and L$50,000,000 if you don’t have one 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL
Ashcroft Burnham: :-p
Moon Adamant: lol, prove validity, gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: valid: accepted by a Judge for exemption from jury duty,
Jon Seattle: And what is a valid excuse?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not valid: simply not showing up
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando, the enforcement of jury duty is not very easy. It’s not absoutely impossible, but people can get around it. We are hoping that people won’t try too hard to get around it, and will feel some loyalty to us.
Patroklus Murakami: i would be against fining our citizens for not providing a valid excsue. who is to say that my excuse is not valid?
Ashcroft Burnham: If they don’t, however, we’re in no worse a position than we would be if we didn’t make povisions for jury service at all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Judge is, Pat
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: a judge 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me read that section again and quote from it…
Ashcroft Burnham: Just like in real life.
Moon Adamant: wait there\
Patroklus Murakami: hehe, indeed 🙂
Moon Adamant: imagine that i say that i have a rl commitment
Moon Adamant: unspecified
Jon Seattle: And how do you deal with time zone issues? For example, if someone scheduled a trial for 1 PM SLT during a weekday, I would not be able to attend.
Moon Adamant: you re saying
Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s a bad step, to try to compel people
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: it being 3am at the relevant time would definitely be a valid excuse 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon, that would be a valid RL reason.
Ashcroft Burnham: We wouldnt’ want jurors who were half asleep anyway.
Moon Adamant: that the judge would have to infringe upon ToS to evaluate over my rl commitment
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: we can’t have jury service without it.
Moon Adamant: what about paying them regally?
Ashcroft Burnham: How would the judge infringe anybody’s ToS?
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Moon Adamant: because Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Asking a question doesn’t infringe anything.
Moon Adamant: he would have to ak
Moon Adamant: that is not my understanding of SL ToS
Ashcroft Burnham: But, actually, the judge wouldn’t have to ask anything.
Ashcroft Burnham: The person compelled to serve on a jury would remain so compelled unless he or she voluntarily told the judge of a good reason 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: let me be clear. i’m not opposed to making jury duty part of the CDS ToS, but i oppose the use of sanctions against those who choose not to
Jon Seattle: But then a judge could potentially get a particular regional pool of jurors by scheduling the trial at a particular time.
Moon Adamant: make the thing appealing instead, ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: how can there be a *duty* to serve on a jury without a sanction for breaching that duty?
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: that’s inevitable, but it’d be from a broad range of regions.
Patroklus Murakami: you cannot impose a sanction in any fair or measured way. so there’s no point in having it!
Ashcroft Burnham: Whatever the time of the trial was, some regions would inevitably be excluded. That applies to all people present during the proceedings. It’s an inevitable consequence of the way that SL works.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why can’t the sanction be fair or measured, Pat?
Moon Adamant: but you see Ash
Moon Adamant: imagine that the judge is, say, european
Moon Adamant: he could set it 5PM GMT or CET n a week day
Gwyneth Llewelyn suggests to abolish timezones altogether.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: we’d need to make the earth flat first.
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hooray for a flat earth!
Moon Adamant: effectively barring a lot of people living westwards
Fernando Book: It’s necessary that the jury is in the place of the trial? I mean, there’s no voice inflexions to notice, or anything, and perhaps reading the transcript is enough?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway… I think that we’re a little overreaching the scope of the discussion,

Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the trial would be scheduled for the convenience of the parties and the judge.
Fernando Book: I suppose that juries can’t ask questions…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you seem to look upon very nasty Judges that cackle and glee in their secret hideouts and say “nyahaha let’s get some more fines from those nasty Australians and set the hearing while they’re asleep”
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando: juries can send notes to the judge asking questions to be asked.
Jon Seattle: I do see that the time zone thing may be a future issue for contentious debate, but I am happy to leave it for now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would also think so, Ash
Moon Adamant: well, at 50.000.000 L$ it would economically interesting 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The fines won’t be that high :-p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Judges setting hearings *purposefully* to fine juries would be, well, abusive behaviour, and subject to review by the PJSP 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: The point is that there are some significant practical issues with juries, but we don’t know that they’re insurmountable. Unless nad until we do, it’s worth giving jury trial a go because of its many benefits.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m gravitating towards Ranma’s concept of a cup of coffee unit of commitment ($1.50USD)
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, quite, Gwyn 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, Claude has been gone a long time…
Sudane Erato: yes 🙁
Pelanor Eldrich: ISP maybe…
Jon Seattle: I recommend $L 5. All we can do is symbolic. Is someone acutally working on an amendment to adress these issues?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d go as high as $L350/missed session.
Ashcroft Burnham: A fine should be enough to be a disincentive to do wrong, but not so much as to make the person prefer to leave the CDS rather than pay it (if we want the person to leave, we’ll banish her/him).
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t believe that you’re seriously considering imposing fines on citizens for failing ot give a valid reason for jury duty
Ashcroft Burnham: But we don’t need to think about the levels of the fines now 🙂 We needn’t decide on the colour of the blinds until after we’ve put up the building…
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: that’s how it works in real life.
Patroklus Murakami: do you believe that anyone would pay them?
Ashcroft Burnham: No more or less than any of the other things that we coudl fine people for.
Patroklus Murakami: we could lose citizens over this v easily
Pelanor Eldrich: True. Maybe $L5, but it’s on your record.
Moon Adamant: actually, colour of facade elements is part of teh project 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: But we’re discussing the Judiciary Act, which doesn’t specifcy the levels of fines… we’re straying, I think. I rather suspect that this is more a matter to consider once we’ve passed it rather than now.
Moon Adamant: i would say instead
Ashcroft Burnham: After all, you were all happy to pass those exact same jury provisions on two previous occasions…
Moon Adamant: make it appealing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah

Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: how about both? Carrot and stick 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: financial compensation.
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, let’s not talk penal code, that’s another conversation.
Ashcroft Burnham: Quite :-0
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you come to jury duty, you get one month free 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No wait, that’s unfair
Sudane Erato: haha
Ashcroft Burnham: We’re not really in a position at this juncture to think numbers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, people with larger holdings would LOVE to be selected for jury duty 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Quite.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’ll get a Linden Bear.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle: Actually, I think that all we can do in either direction will be sumbolic. The real reason to particate is civic duty. And, if a trial required tens of hours of being on-line, there will be nothing we can do.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, i want to discuss with you that odd notion of appealingness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Jon, let’s be realistic on that…
Ashcroft Burnham: Those are problems that are best addressed *after* we pass the Act: after all, it doesn’t require that any given hearing be before a jury, but merely allows it to be so.
Moon Adamant: though i can share my fbulous Benshee as a prize for teh Best Juror 2006 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Voting is also a civic duty, but some don’t vote 🙂 (yes, I know that the Australians deal with that very nicely, but they’re one of the very few exceptions)
Ashcroft Burnham: If juries prove wholly impractical, they can be abolished, but we should at least given them a chance.
Patroklus Murakami: i think this is a discussion that would be better continued on the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with both Ash and Pat at the same time 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, it’s not a discussion about whether to pass the Judiciary Act, after all 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Patroklus Murakami: how does the RA intend to proceed (or not) with it’s agenda for today with the LRA absent?
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA can appoint a “Temporary LRA”, there is precedent on that…
Moon Adamant: can we elect a secretary LRA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *for
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s probably wise.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it happened often.
Moon Adamant: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: During my own term, the Temporary LRA was made permanent, since she handled the procedures so much better than me 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any volunteers? Moon? Jon? Pelanor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn fears the silence
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rocks/paper/scissor? 😀
Sudane Erato: oops… lost fernando
Moon Adamant: er… loss or win?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, they’re dropping like flies.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Jon Seattle: I volunteer, and then move we adjourn to 7 day.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Jon 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, I suggest that we don’t adjourn yet – there are things undiscussed that probably ought be looked at briefly.
Ashcroft Burnham: (At *least* briefly..)

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon and Pelanor, do you agree as well with Jon? 🙂
Moon Adamant: yes
Jon Seattle: First, on my taking this role for the remainder of this meeting.
Moon Adamant: aye, jon
Patroklus Murakami: if you adjourn you must decide which of the bills are to be voted on over 7 days
Ashcroft Burnham: Might I suggest that the referenda bill needs more consideration before it’s passed?
Patroklus Murakami: wb fernando
Jon Seattle: Ah, Justice already requested that all bills on the agenda be voted that way.
Moon Adamant: well, the referenda bill, actually, has been in discussion for a long, long time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I do have LOTS of issues on the current referenda bill 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: Consideration (1) as to whether a majority of all those eligable to vote should be required, and (2) whether different parts of the constitution should be entrenched to different degrees.
Patroklus Murakami: indeed moon, since april if i recall correctly
Ashcroft Burnham: That doesn’t seem to have been discussed properly, and they’re both important issues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “discussed”, yes
Jon Seattle: Pel, are you okay with my taking the role, for this meeting, of LRA?
Moon Adamant pokes Pel
Sudane Erato: haha
Patroklus Murakami: i think you could quite reasonably decide to table those bills which have not had a full discussion at this meeting. eg.g the referenum CA
Fernando Book: I think also that the referenda amendment should be approved in a referendum.
Sudane Erato: lol Gwyn 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My crams are not working on Pel 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *charms
Jon Seattle: Well, I am hoping we can have a short discussion on referendum now.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: i’d take pel’s silence as assent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tsk Pat.
Ashcroft Burnham: Before we get there, does everybody agree that the “hypothetical amendments the the judiciary bill” should not be made?
Jon Seattle laughs and waits on Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here comes Pel!!!!
Sudane Erato: yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: His hands are moving… will he type anything…
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m happy with Jon or Moon as temp LRA, but am fine keeping the discussion going.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Jon Seattle: Well, informally then, thens move on to referendum.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … the audience holds their breath in anxiety…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Moon Adamant: Jon
Sudane Erato: lol
Pelanor Eldrich: Gwyn, it’s not that kind of theatre…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Moon Adamant: may i propose something?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure Moon 😀
Jon Seattle: I will set a time limit of not passing the hour on this topic however.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jon
Jon Seattle: Yes, Moon
Moon Adamant: since that we have only looked at one point in agenda
Moon Adamant: and we will have to vote in 7 days
Moon Adamant: can you please time discussion in other points
Moon Adamant: i do feel worried
Jon Seattle: Okay, at no later than the hour, let us move on to the two PCA bills for ten minutes each.
Moon Adamant: that we actually never have time to reach the bottom of agenda
Jon Seattle: So referenda for 15 minutes.
Ashcroft Burnham: The “hypothetical amendments to the judiciary bill” haven’t been discussed. I don’t mind that as long as that means that nobody takes them seriously 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, on the referenda, since I’ve been the major opposer to any kind of degeneration into “direct democracy”, I wish only to say that the LAST time this was discussed,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: a provision was added
Jon Seattle: We have already spent quite a bit of time on the judiciary and have other issues to discuss.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the referenda would take effect at the end of term,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and any deliberations there would only have an effect when the subsequent RA was elected.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, but Jon, if we’ve discussed an issue without resolving it, have we really used that time productively?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was to prevent “any other day we’ll have a referendum”
Moon Adamant: indeed, gwyn, i recall that perfectly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, it meant that the RA would do more “constitutional conventiosn”;
Gwyneth Llewelyn: have a large number of amendments presented in a “package”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: call for ONE referendum in a term,
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: would that mean that future constitutional amendments would *all* have to wait until the next term to be passed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have the population ratify it, during the same day that the RA elections were held
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Goodness, that’d mean that we never get anywyere…
Patroklus Murakami: the RA could choose to do that, and it’s a good safeguard against abuse. but it would have meant that we would have had to wait til jan to get our judiciary for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was viewed as a way to en sure that the RA & SC, actining in tandem, could not change the constitution so easily, as it is right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not at all, Ash.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, you’re concerned about the RA calling the same referendum again and again until people agree with the RA, is that right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would mean that we would concentrate on having a GOOD constitution, and legislate more and better.
Moon Adamant: define easiness?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That as well, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m also concerned,
Ashcroft Burnham: We shouldn’t make things difficult for the sake of it. Arbitrary time limts are too inflexible.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that every other day (or week) we’ll be happy Swiss eagerly voting on *all* issues.
Ashcroft Burnham: You could prohibit a referendum on the *same* amendment more than once a term.
Moon Adamant: i would like people to understand, that atm, the mmendments are the most dififcult thing to pass in our system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing against the Swiss, of course 🙂

Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s hard, Ash.
Moon Adamant: not only they have the need for a qualified vote, as they must be approved by another branch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re constantly amending the same things in the Constitution, over and over again… redefining single words, removing a sentence, adding another…
Moon Adamant: i know that there is is notion running around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Moon is right.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: but does that actually cause us any problems? Are we in a better or worse position now for our ability to have done that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It takes quite a lot of compromise to make changes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Ash,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a philosophical thing 🙂
Fernando Book: I agree with Gwyneth that we need a sound (and short) constitution, and leaving everything else to laws.
Moon Adamant: that it is extremely easy, but n the contrary: it is the MOST DIFFICULT thing to do in our system
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: that doesn’t answer the point. The philosophy is “we should do whatever has the best results” 🙂
Jon Seattle: I think that the constitution for us, has somewhat of a different role than the US constitution. Ours provides actually proceedues for decision making in a much more direct way. Closer, perhaps, to a european model.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d prefer individual items on the referendum with up/down instead of a big omnibus package every term.
Ashcroft Burnham: Arbitrary time-limits are rife to cause stagnation and inflexibility.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I’m not yet convinced that degeneration into direct democracy IS the thing that brings the best results. From RL experience, and history, it leads to mostly stagnated, conservative societies (the public doesn’t embrace change)
Ashcroft Burnham: Just imagine where we’d be now if we’d had to wait until January for the Chancellor!
Patroklus Murakami: having to wait six months is a hellishly long time in SL terms. i think we would be likely to regret it
Ashcroft Burnham: I agree with Pat.
Ashcroft Burnham: What we need are *different* levels of entrenchment for different parts of the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Yes. That’s another story, I don’t have anything against the *current* model, since it *promotes* change,
Fernando Book: We can’t call for a referendum on a amendment only if a number of citizens (say, a 20%) ask for it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the only thing I have against the *proposed* model is that this “change” has to be validated by referenda 😉
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t see how this is degeneration into direct democracy. it’s providing a new check for const amends
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree with Gwyn if our aim is to become a larger group. For very small groups (as we are not) direct democracy can work.
Fernando Book: *can
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Claude is back!
Jon Seattle: *as we are now
Jon Seattle: wb Claude!
Pelanor Eldrich: crikey, Claude’s having a grand mal…ok.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, some parts should remain as they are now, requiring 2/3 RA, some parts should require simple majority of those voting at a referendum as well, and some parts 2/3 of those voting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Claude indeed!
Sudane Erato: wb Claude!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my.
Pelanor Eldrich: wb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which parts would be those, Ashcroft?
Claude Desmoulins: ISP frizzed out badly.
Ashcroft Burnham: That needs more discussion 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree.
Moon Adamant: wb claude
Ashcroft Burnham: The details of RA procedure, for example, probably just RA.
Jon Seattle: Claude, I temporarily served as chair. I set a time limit of 6 PM slt on refferenda, then ten minutes max on each of the PCA bills.
Ashcroft Burnham: Election scheduling: 2/3 referendum.
Claude Desmoulins: What on earth are we discussing?
Ashcroft Burnham: Citizneship: 1/2 referendum.
Ashcroft Burnham: And so on.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referenda, Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon had to take over as your deputy in yoru absence.
Jon Seattle: Yes, for 6 more minutes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To clarify: I’m just stating a personal opinion in this matter, btw
Patroklus Murakami: what would be your criteria for deciding which level each element of the constn needs?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the bill for the referenda, as it stands, does not violate anything, from the point of view of the SC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… I can give you a good example. In our community, we already have a very large group resisting change.
Ashcroft Burnham: That requires further discussion. However, the broad principle would be that the more fundamental the pricniple, and the more important that it is at preventing abuses of power, the greater the level of entrenchment should be in respect of it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And critisising the RA/SC to be promoting so much change in such a quick time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Change is *good* but people are conservative,
Claude Desmoulins: Can you give me a minute or two of relative quiet to catch up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: representative democracy is the best solution to that.
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: indeed… last term, curiously, it was the opposite…
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: it’s not always bad to be at least a little conservative. We should not be radical for the sake of being radical, nor conservative for the sake of being conservative: we should change everything that needs to be changed, and nothing that does not.
Ashcroft Burnham: Might I suggest that the referenda issue not be decided now, but discussed in greater depth on the forum?
Gwyneth Llewelyn would also kindly ask the RA for more time to discuss that on the forums or in-world meetings, whatever
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, you may suggest, but we will decide.
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: it has been posted for discussion on teh forum in hmmm June, i believe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the LL forums?
Moon Adamant: possibly before, i can only recollect this term
Patroklus Murakami: well, there are clearly issues that need further discussion
Ashcroft Burnham: The problem is that it’s not clear what views that people have on differential levels of entrenchment…
Ashcroft Burnham: And there’s no real discussion about the dangers of requiring a given proportion of total citizens, rather than those voting.
Moon Adamant: no, in our forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: please forgive me…
Sudane Erato: other obligations 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Jon Seattle: Oh, thanks and bye Sudane
Claude Desmoulins: I’m also concerned with frequent referenda placing a heavy burden on voters.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – but that’s a reason in favour of having differential entrenchment, isn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: We have anough trouble getting them to all vote twice a year.
Jon Seattle: I move that we extend this discussion for five minutes and then move on to the PCA bills
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude, at the beginning everybody will vote against change. It’s in human nature.
Claude Desmoulins: How do youhave differenctial entrenchment within the constitution?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After the third or fourth vote, people will simply ignore it
Ashcroft Burnham: Aha – for that, I have a cunning plan!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thus the referenda will quickly just degenerate in a way where nobody votes, and no changes get approved.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fines? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Next to each section, there could be a symbol – perhaps a diamond shape.
Fernando Book: Fundamental rights require a referendum, some things in the Judiciary act require only the RA appoval.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s opinion gwyn, not fact
Ashcroft Burnham: One diamond would indicate 2/3 RA.
Ashcroft Burnham: Two diamonds would indicate 2/3 RA plus 1/2 of those voting in a referendum.
Ashcroft Burnham: Three diamonds would indicate 2/3 RA and 2/3 of those voting in a referendum 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: That’s a big change.
Claude Desmoulins: Intriguing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat: that is what I call *valued opinion*, based on RL history, and even SL history (see the Feature Voting Tool!), as well as a good understanding of human nature 🙂 Of course it might be WRONG.
Pelanor Eldrich: fears the royal flush.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Ashcroft Burnham: But, Gwyn has a point: we must never set things up so that mere apathy can defeat change.
Pelanor Eldrich: It should be 2/3 or whatever of voters…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, which is also dangerous, Pel.
Pelanor Eldrich: If the question is important, the citzenry will vote.
Ashcroft Burnham: Don’t bank on it.
Claude Desmoulins: Hence the value of tying referenda to the existing election.
Pelanor Eldrich: If they’re apathetic, well, tough shit.
Patroklus Murakami: surely it should be up to the RA to determine what would lead to ‘voter fatigue’ and adjust accordingly
Patroklus Murakami: rather than tie them into an inflexible timetable
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: the problem with that is that the lag that it causes has the potential to create very serious problems.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Example: the franchulate act. Imagine that only people like Ranma would vote no, because the others simply wouldn’t care enough about it 😉
Jon Seattle: interesting.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn does have a point: there are many things that people aren’t interested enough to vote in in great numbers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus allowing the very few radicals to block the system
Ashcroft Burnham: Only the *really important* parts (no loss of citizenship without right to a trial, regular elections, etc.) should be entrenched more than they already are.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you define a threshold for a referendum to be valid,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: then people will block it by not even appearing for the vote.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there is no “easy way out” on that, I’m afraid.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hence differential entrenchment 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referenda are good for things that are “generic” or “emotional”, though
Patroklus Murakami: but you ensure that constl changes which *are* made have the support of the people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Example: “should we be a Republic, a federation, or a Constitutional Monarchy?”
Ashcroft Burnham: Regular elections is probably the single most important provision to entrench.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither choice will mean much in the long term. Just a different approach to things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that could be asked from the people.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or: “should NFS look more like a Swiss village, or a bavarian village?”
Jon Seattle: Claude, are we going to adress the other two bills today?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, the answer is not relevant to most of the things.
Ashcroft Burnham: (Also, Claude, we haven’t discussed the “hypothetical amendments”; if nobody wants to vote for them, then, that’s fine, but if people are thinking of voting for them, then it really ought be discussed.)
Claude Desmoulins: I think paying government officials needs public discussion in the forums.
Jon Seattle: Okay.
Ashcroft Burnham: THat’s probably right. I think that it’s a good idea to pay you, but that part hasn’t been discussed very much.
Moon Adamant: so those two are tabled and will not enter 7-day mode?
Jon Seattle: Thats fine with me, if we want to do it that way.
Pelanor Eldrich: Last comment on this for me. If the referedum is announced and RA members feel stronglhy about the issue, there will be campaigning to raise voter awareness. If the issue is important, the majority will turn out.
Ashcroft Burnham: Don’t bank on it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Most people don’t even vote in real-world elections.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like your optimism, Pel, even if I don’t share it 🙂
Moon Adamant: the politically commited do
Claude Desmoulins: Chancellor exclusivity can I believe move to seven day.
Ashcroft Burnham: It was 26, wasn’t it, who voted at the last election out of then about 38 citizens?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, but those are always the minority ? thus, representative democracy 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to that?
Jon Seattle: no objection.
Pelanor Eldrich: nope
Moon Adamant: no objection
Moon Adamant: what has been decided on referenda, sorry? table for forums?
Claude Desmoulins: Table referenda and compensation to forums
Moon Adamant: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Chancellor exclusivity to seven day with Judiciary.
Jon Seattle: Can we take up referenda next meeting?
Claude Desmoulins: I may need to go two weeks here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
Claude Desmoulins: Next weekend is my wife’s birthday.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Moon Adamant: hmmm, btw, i can’t find the thread of referenda… does anyone know where it is?
Claude Desmoulins: we’ve been meeting at a blistering pace.
Ashcroft Burnham: Can’t you set up an RA meeting to discuss just uncontroversial things next week, that only require 3/5, such as appointing judges?
Ashcroft Burnham: Otherwise we’ll be here for ever.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, we have a pending trial, and no judges… 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: Quite.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll discuss the meeting schedule in with other stuff.
Claude Desmoulins: What trial?
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, since you can set the agenda, you can put on it in the week that you’re absent only the relatively uncontroversial things.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’d be worth three or four of you meeting next week *just* to appoint a judge.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A citizen has been banned by a Marshal of the Peace. Now that citizen is entitled to a confirmation of that act through a trial.
Claude Desmoulins: I thought bannings had to be announced?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They were.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, yes, the delights of transitional provisions…
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the SC was notified 😀
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll be on email with all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Presumably, the pre-Judiciary Act banishment would be revoked by the passing of the Judiciary Act, and the person would have to be re-banished, with a Notice of Summary Banishment.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned.
Patroklus Murakami: don’t the provisoin of the ‘defence of the republic’ act still hold until the judiciary bill is finally passed?
Fernando Book: Bye all. I have to go.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – it’s the Judiciary Act that repeals it.
Jon Seattle: Bye Fernando
The meeting closed at 6:17 Linden time.

Permalink.

5th RA – 2 (7)

RA Meeting: October 28, 2006

Meeting on 2006-10-28
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: sorry, was putting the beer stein away 🙂
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Sounds interesting. I’ve always thought of our Federation vs. Republic debate as Vulcans vs. Jedi. You Ash, are the vulcan Jedi.
Moon Adamant: hi hi hi 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: ROTFL!
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Please touch the recorder.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’sget going.
Ashcroft Burnham: I know very little about Star Wars, so that makes less sense than it might to me… 😉
Moon Adamant: i have one request to make
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: First, reports.
Claude Desmoulins: yes?
Moon Adamant: i am in a hurry today… can we time discussions?
Justice Soothsayer: me too
Claude Desmoulins: Good suggestion
Moon Adamant: i would need to leave in 1h30
Claude Desmoulins: Moon – CN report please- you have five minutes 🙂
Moon Adamant: oh
Moon Adamant: building is going according to plan, we have several buildings ready already
Moon Adamant: a pricing system has been made ready for teh pre-sale that begins on the 1st
Moon Adamant: promotion materials are well underway, and all links have been changed to point to the blog, which has been made official
Moon Adamant: final covenants are prepared for discussion at this RA .) and they will b added to the blog and promotion
Moon Adamant: ok 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: When will information onthe pricing system go public?
Moon Adamant: on the 1st
Moon Adamant: schedules again:
Claude Desmoulins: Will that be on both the CN site and the blog?
Moon Adamant: 1st Nov: presales for citizen
Moon Adamant: 7th Nov: presales for rest of teh world and beginning of campaign
Moon Adamant: 15th Nov: opening of the city
Moon Adamant: no
Moon Adamant: the CN site is hmmm deprecated
Moon Adamant: the blog contains the relvant, uptodate info
Claude Desmoulins: Also, what’s the plan if more than one person wants the same lot? Are we auctioning or is it first down payment wins?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, CN site refers to “Neaualtenburg in Togas”. 🙂
Moon Adamant: that is a question i can’t answer so far… i assume that the treasurer will use the same sys for that that is in use atm in NFS
Moon Adamant: but i can check it out 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Time.
Moon Adamant: i’m done
Pelanor Eldrich: …is on our side…yes it is.
Pelanor Eldrich: Sry, tourettes.
Claude Desmoulins: Covenant revision for CN – Moon. Can you summarize the changes that this makes?
Moon Adamant: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s aim for 10 minutes here.
Moon Adamant: the covenant changes are very simple:
Moon Adamant: 1. they summarize your previous work, claude
Moon Adamant: and re-organize it somehow
Moon Adamant: 2. they add the notion of typologies, to guide teh executive in future requests of building approval
Moon Adamant: 3. they give a sketch of approved materials, for the same
Moon Adamant: i also added the CDS convenants applying, which may not be set now at approval – since they were approved – but we must have them also in our covenant notice in our promotion info
Moon Adamant: that’s it
Moon Adamant: i also corrected them already according to Chicago’s suggestion
Jon Seattle: Yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If we’re amending CC&R is your section 1 redundant?
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: yes
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Moon Adamant: section 1. isn’t in discussion here… sorry, but that documents has a bit of an hybrid nature
Claude Desmoulins: I move we strike it.
Moon Adamant: agree
Moon Adamant: i’ll feed it only as it is to Promotion group
Moon Adamant: and hi Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂 hi 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Awesome job on the builds and the CC&R. Thanks.
Claude Desmoulins: Since that’s a friendly, other discussion?
Jon Seattle: Hi Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Moon Adamant: do you spot any other incoherence?
Sudane Erato: it looked great to me 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I suggest that you delete the following from the end of the Bill: “Back to top View user’s profile Send private message”… 😉
Moon Adamant: lol
Moon Adamant: really?!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: that’s a cunning political statement there…
Claude Desmoulins: Is that to be considered another firendly?
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! 😉
Claude Desmoulins: *friendly
Moon Adamant: lol, yes, of course, sorry
Justice Soothsayer: hehe
Moon Adamant is very absent-minded
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing no other discussion…
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor….
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Moon Adamant: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Next
Pelanor Eldrich: woot
Moon Adamant: let me feed the Promotion group with the correct version
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s nice to see regulations getting *more* precise and detailed 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Executive Exclusivity
Claude Desmoulins: 10 minutes again.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Ashcroft Burnham: One very minor point…
Pelanor Eldrich: /listens
Moon Adamant: i think this one is generally peaceful
Moon Adamant listens to ash
Ashcroft Burnham: “The Chancellor may not be elected or serve on the Representative Assembly” should be “The Chancellor may not be elected *to* or serve on the Representative Assembly”
Ashcroft Burnham: Or else it looks as if the chancellor may not be elected to anything at all 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, sure…
Ashcroft Burnham: And, similarly, “The Chancellor may hold a position in the Artisanal Collective but may not vote” should be “The Chancellor may hold a position in the Artisanal Collective but may not vote *therein*” for the same reason.
Claude Desmoulins: Since the author isn’t here. we need to grind this through an amendment vote. I’d also suggest…
Claude Desmoulins: Well, where in Amendment 11 should we add this?
Ashcroft Burnham: At the end?
Claude Desmoulins: I was thinking to the end of section 5
Claude Desmoulins: 5. The Chancellor of Neufreistadt-CDS shall be selected by the Representative Assembly from among any Neufreistadt-CDS citizen who shall make application to the RA within ten (10) days of the passage of this amendment. The Chancellor will serve a term en
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, then we have to renumber, don’t we?
Ashcroft Burnham: Unless we call it Section 5A…
Pelanor Eldrich: Those seem friendly to me. I realize the author isn’t here but I’m sure that’s what was intended.
Claude Desmoulins: No I would become part of section 5
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, I see. The joys of a semicolon 😉
Claude Desmoulins: The second graph thereof
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: *paragraph
Ashcroft Burnham: And, if you’ve passed the Judiciary Act, “Neufreistadt-CDS” becomes “The Confederation of Democratic Simulators”, doesn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: I would think
Pelanor Eldrich: yep, we have some housecleaning on older laws to do at a later point to reflect CDS.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, how about, the following text: “1. The following text shall be inserted at the end of Article VII, Section 5 of the Constitution:”, to be inserted at the very top of the Bill?
Ashcroft Burnham: Our legislative librarian has much work to do 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Indeed 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Although the chancellory wasn’t ever officially made Article VII.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm… somebody needs to set some standards for the forms of bills and constitutional amendments…
Ashcroft Burnham: I could draft some templates if anyone is interested…
Claude Desmoulins: I move the thing as one amenmdnet (Ashcroft’s to, CDS, and putting it in section 5)
Pelanor Eldrich: that’d be handy
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a second?
Justice Soothsayer: second
Pelanor Eldrich: yep
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment to the proposed amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Further dicsussion on the whole thing?
Pelanor Eldrich: Just want to put on the record that while I support this bill to keep conflicts of interest at bay, I’d like to stress that we should try to keep the ratio of gov’t positions to citizens low.
Justice Soothsayer: a question on timing – say an Chancellor wants to stand for the RA, would she have to resign?
Claude Desmoulins: Only if actually elected, I would think.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pelanor: the best way of doing that is getting lots and lots of new citizens! 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing no further discussion. Let’s vote on the whole thing.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to get the gov’t to 10% of population or less at some point by attracting more citizens.
Jon Seattle listens to Pel
Ashcroft Burnham: That’d be good 🙂
Jon Seattle: good idea! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Jon Seattle: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: 4 minutes over
Claude Desmoulins: 15 on ths one.
Claude Desmoulins: Government compensation
Ashcroft Burnham: Two wording suggestions for the constitutional amendment, and one other suggestion.
Ashcroft Burnham: The other suggestion is to specify exactly where in the constitution it should go…
Ashcroft Burnham: The wording suggestions are: (1) “is empowered to” be changed to “may”;
Ashcroft Burnham: (2) “the next term of the Assembly” be changed to “the term of the Assembly subsequent to the term in which the determination is made”.
Claude Desmoulins: I wonder if we need the amendment. Doesn’t the whole thing fall within existing RA budgetary powers?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, that’s a good point.
Justice Soothsayer: The amendment would limit the RA power
Claude Desmoulins: In what way?
Pelanor Eldrich: I don’t see Senator’s salaries in the US constitution.
Jon Seattle: I wonder if we need it at all in the current situation.
Justice Soothsayer: limit the timing of any increases
Claude Desmoulins: That is in the constituion (timing)
Ashcroft Burnham: It would mean that the only way the the RA could allocate payment to government positions would be in line with the procedure set out in the proposed amendment.
Justice Soothsayer: Pel – it is the 27th Amendment to the US Constitution
Pelanor Eldrich: Why not just make this a regular bill?
Pelanor Eldrich: ah
Pelanor Eldrich: thx
Justice Soothsayer: “No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.”
Claude Desmoulins: How about this as a substitute…
Justice Soothsayer: Proposed in 1789 and adopted in 1992!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: And you thought our constitutional debates take a long time!
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL! And still with 1789 use of commas 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, that’s not a bad form of words, actually.
Pelanor Eldrich: is glad the US doesn’t debate franchulates.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: haha
Pelanor Eldrich: back to biz
Ashcroft Burnham: Another small wording change: “All excess credit against fees is forfeit” should be “Any credit against land fees in excess of the fees payable by the recipient of the credit shall not be payable”.
Claude Desmoulins: All changes to the rate of compensation for the RA, SC, Chancellor or Guildmaster will take effect at the start of the term of the Assembly subsequent to the term in which the determination is made.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with this in principle, but I’ll let my more learned colleagues figure out the final form.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: it should be “shall” rather than “will”:
Claude Desmoulins: I suggest that as a substitute for the amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Ashcroft Burnham: “Will” is a prediction: “shall” is a command 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I’m OK with the amendment; what I;m not sure about is whether we can afford to implement salaries yet.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s a question for Sudane, isn’t it? :-
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the substitute…
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Suds, does this bankrupt us?
Sudane Erato: hehe….
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do the bill in a minute.
Sudane Erato: well, i should think the issue would be part of the next budget process
Jon Seattle: If this passes, can an individual decide to forgo a salary?
Justice Soothsayer: Agreed, let’s keep the debate on the proposed Constitutional amendment only.
Pelanor Eldrich: This thing oughta be a financial bill with GM veto power.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Gwyn 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: but ik
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the substitute.
Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn!
Jon Seattle smiles at Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises for not being here earlier
Moon Adamant: hi Gwyn
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Jon Seattle: Abstrains
Pelanor Eldrich: cool.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, i will abstain as well
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, Moon. Do you have an issue?
Jon Seattle: I think we are not sure about the whole enterprise.
Jon Seattle: that is on this amendment
Claude Desmoulins: I would point out that the amendment doesn’t pay anyone.
Moon Adamant: well, on my part i don’t expect any compensation – i do recognise though that this IS work and HARD work sometimes
Claude Desmoulins: It merely constrains the process by which such a thing would be done.
Moon Adamant: so i recognise also the principle that work should be paid
Justice Soothsayer: Indeed, all the amendment does is limit the RA power so that any increases in compensation must wait to the next legislative session to take effect.
Ashcroft Burnham: I would suggest that those who aren’t sure whether people be paid at all wouldn’t be against a constitutional amendment making it harder for the RA to vote themselves payment…
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes?
Jon Seattle: Ah, I think we are not against payment in all cases.
Claude Desmoulins: Does the 2/3 rule apply only to final passage of amendments or to the intermediary steps?
Jon Seattle: I would like us to 1. remain flexible, and 2. not make payment the expected thing in all cases.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that is a tough one, but the simple answer is that *bills* are approved by a 2/3 vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course, a bill can be one line 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, if you wish, split the intermediary steps and make each one an individual bill 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Is a vote on an amendment to a bill which, if passed, would amend the constitution not a procedural motion that is therefore passed by simple majority?
Justice Soothsayer: I think the question is whether abstentions count in determining whether a proposed constitutional amendment has passed with the requisite 2/3rds.
Claude Desmoulins: I would think. Others might think differently.
Ashcroft Burnham: After all, the constitution is not amended unless and until 2/3rds of the Assembly vote for the final bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Justice Soothsayer: clearly, if the vote is 3 in favor and 2 opposed, it fails.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the issue is always with bills that have constitutional amendments AND “regular legislation”
Claude Desmoulins: I’d agree with you ifthis were the final vote on the amendment.
Pelanor Eldrich: hehe..munches popcorn
Justice Soothsayer: I thought we were voting ONLY on the amendment.
Ashcroft Burnham: Presumably, the test is that the passage of any bill that has the effect of amending the constitution (whether or not it also has other effects) requires a 2/3rds majority.
Jon Seattle: Well, lets move ahead to the actual amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn suggests to put them in two different bills 😀
Jon Seattle: How do we do that?
Moon Adamant: yup
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Ashcroft 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: No we were voting on substituting my language for ALiasi’s original/
Ashcroft Burnham: The Leader of the Representative Assembly is, of course, empowered to split the bills to create a bill that does not amend the constitution that can therefore be passed by a simple majority.
Moon Adamant: again… i once proposed a sys of hierachization of bills
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, simply CHANGINg the language on a bill is by a simple majority!
Claude Desmoulins: We haven’t voted on passage of the amendment yet.
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Jon Seattle: I change my vote to Aye, only so we can move to vote on the actual amendment
Claude Desmoulins: This does take a 2/3
Claude Desmoulins: Now, Any further discussion on the amendment?
Ashcroft Burnham: (The amendment *to* the amendment, or the amendment itself?)
Claude Desmoulins: The amendment itself.
Justice Soothsayer: Just to be clear, I move that we delete the section labeled “ordinary law”, so that our discussion and vote is on the proposed constitutional amendment only.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for the clarification, Justice 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: second
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the Soothsayer amendment?
Jon Seattle: yes, I agree
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, shall that “I agree” be taken as a vote in favor?
Jon Seattle: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Now shal we vote on passage of the amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye aye Kiptin.
Moon Adamant: lol
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment as amended?
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Jon Seattle: Abstrains
Jon Seattle: *abstains
Justice Soothsayer: strained abs?
Moon Adamant: er
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: can someone paste me the ammended amend, please?
Moon Adamant: or possibly the ammend to the ammeneded ammend? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All changes to the rate of compensation for the RA, SC, Chancellor or Guildmaster will take effect at the start of the term of the Assembly subsequent to the term in which the determination is made.
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: shall take effect sorry
SteveGerman? Tower: this looks very german here. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Willkommen zu Neufreistadt, SteveGerman? 🙂
Moon Adamant: ok, that looks peaceful to me
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
SteveGerman? Tower: looks like am home again. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Moon have you voted?
Claude Desmoulins: Steve, please touch the black box on the table, we’re recording.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: the amendment is just that?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Moon Adamant: i am sorry, but i have an extreme difficulty in following
SteveGerman? Tower: what table? im on the market place right now.
Moon Adamant: ok, then aye
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: Now shall we discuss the non constitutional part, or table?
Pelanor Eldrich: I think it means you can’t vote yourself or the other branch heads a raise during the terms you pass it.
Ashcroft Burnham: With the amendment, it doesn’t make any difference if it’s delayed…
SteveGerman? Tower: u guys speak german?
Claude Desmoulins makes mental note to edit SteveGerman? outof transcript.
Pelanor Eldrich: *term
Claude Desmoulins: Ein bischen
Justice Soothsayer: sorry folks, but I have to depart
Notary Desk: Drop the document notecard here to start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: SteveGerman? ? we’re in the middle of a meeting of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt. You’re welcome to attend, it’s a public meeting, but you will have to remain silent during the whole session. Only citizens are allowed to speak up 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye for now, Justice.
Justice Soothsayer: bye all
Sudane Erato: bye now
Claude Desmoulins: Farewell. Justice. I’ll have to leave soon as well.
Ashcroft Burnham: Rats, too late in saying goodbye, as always…
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye Justice
SteveGerman? Tower: oh. sorry about disturbing you.
Notary Desk: Drop the document notecard here to start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no problem, we can talk after the meeting if you wish, SteveGerman? 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Np Steve, check us out at neufreistdt.info
Claude Desmoulins: why don’t we table the bill that actually sets salaries.
Pelanor Eldrich: *neufreistadt.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Claude Desmoulins: I sense there’s some uncertainty as to what we wish to do.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane.
Claude Desmoulins: Could you report back as to the budgetary impact of Aliasi’s proposed bill?
Sudane Erato: in principle I can…
Sudane Erato: but at the moment we are in a very transitional phase
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In practice you can’t? 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, good pint there!
Sudane Erato: with the expenses of start up of CN

Claude Desmoulins: My question is how close tothe edge might it push us?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even *point
Pelanor Eldrich: eyes a pint
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, Dianne is the one with the good pints 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn laughs at Pelanor
Sudane Erato: i really think that this “study” should await the next budget process
Notary Desk: Drop the document notecard here to start
Claude Desmoulins: Though I realize the occupancy rate of CN next month will have a significant impact.
Sudane Erato: exactly!
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, and I want GM veto power with the salary setting bill as a financial bill.
Sudane Erato: and in the next coming months
Pelanor Eldrich: *finance
Claude Desmoulins: But, if we wait until the next budget, noone gets paid until August 07.
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe that’s a good thing.
Sudane Erato: you can certainly pass authorization, now, I would think
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to tabling?
Pelanor Eldrich: no
Sudane Erato: whether it gets spent is always another question
Moon Adamant: none
Pelanor Eldrich: no objection
Claude Desmoulins: We can’t vote on referenda.
Jon Seattle: no objection
Claude Desmoulins: where are we n ths one?
Pelanor Eldrich: We can talk about it. That’s a big issue.
Ashcroft Burnham: Intellectual property if we can’t do referenda…
Claude Desmoulins: *on
Ashcroft Burnham: Would anyone like me to draft a framework bill for multiple levels of entrenchment, so that people can see how it works in practice?
Ashcroft Burnham: (And by “framework”, I mean a bill that does not specify which bits should have which level of entrenchment).
Gwyneth Llewelyn likes frameworks
Claude Desmoulins: Fernando is working on aconstituional cleanup process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that’s good news!
Gwyneth Llewelyn makes a note to draft Fernando into teh SC 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Actually this is out of date. Didn’t Judiciary remove the SC veto of constitutional amendments?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: We could pass the framework amendment, which would leave the default position with the current level of entrenchment, and then add the higher level of entrenchment to parts of the constitution bit by bit in a way that is, in terms of wording, very easy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noooo Claude 😀
Pelanor Eldrich: That “latest and greatest” const text with all the amendments added in was very helpful.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just removed the possibility of using non-strict interpretations to pronounce a veto.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, no it didn’t… it just removed the part that said that the SC need not adopt a “strict and literal” interpretation of teh constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: So, the SC must now be more precise 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, and cannot draw from external sources, personal experience, etc
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – perhaps Fernando should apply to the (salaried) position of SC Archivist?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have Ranma Tardis who also applied for that job, but it could be a possibility, Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Goodness, a competative application process! You’ll need to have interviews and everything!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we’re digressing hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL
Ashcroft Burnham: Hm, yes, sorry.
Pelanor Eldrich: Precision can be good, our helpdesk gets calls like “the thing doesn’t work”.
Ashcroft Burnham: ROTFL!
Ashcroft Burnham agrees with Pelanor…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I won’t laugh, that’s my whole professional experience in a nutshell as well 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I usually recommend Viagra.
Ashcroft Burnham: Anyway, what do people think of a framework model for differential entrenchment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: haha
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, I hope that this is not taken to mean that the SC annot draw on the external sources mentioned in the constitution!
Ashcroft Burnham: No, that’s not what the Judiciary Act meant.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, what are we discussing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t read it that way, either.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm
Ashcroft Burnham: Whether to table referenda, I think.
Claude Desmoulins: I know that Judiciary place some new limits on SC powers didn’t it?
Ashcroft Burnham: I had proposed the idea of a framework model for differential entrenchment.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes – it prevents over-wide interpretations, requires that the SC sit as a court when considering whether to impeach anyone, and limits it judicial functions to impeachment and special appeals from the Courts of Common Jurisdiction.
Ashcroft Burnham: It also takes away the SC’s function as provider of ADR, and hands it to the PJSP.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Ashcroft Burnham: (Who also have the authority to procure, as well as provide, ADR).
Ashcroft Burnham: So, what do people think of the idea of a framework model of differential entrenchment?
Ashcroft Burnham: And how many levels of entrenchment should there be? I had favoured three, but two seems popular…
Moon Adamant: wait wait wait
Pelanor Eldrich: Cool. As long as it has two or fewer.
Pelanor Eldrich: 2
Pelanor Eldrich: (not fewer) 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham listens to Moon…
Moon Adamant: WHAT are we discussing, please?
Ashcroft Burnham: Referenda 🙂
Jon Seattle laughs
Jon Seattle: sort of..
Ashcroft Burnham: Differential entrenchment, my proposed framework model, whether we should table for me to draft same or not…
Claude Desmoulins: Pat’s referenda amendment is on the floor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Entrenching parts of the constitution (by calling a spade a spade)
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: i would like to suggest something
Ashcroft Burnham listens to Moon.
Moon Adamant: i propose that we let the discussion run up to a date we’ll set n the future
Jon Seattle listens to Moon
Moon Adamant: and on that date, we vote
Moon Adamant: i must say
Moon Adamant: i am not ready to vote on this

Moon Adamant: since i find both stands equally valid
Jon Seattle supports Moon’s suggestion
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m assuming the revenue bill also means “finance bill”.
Moon Adamant: and would personally propose other kind of approach as regards const discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it’s subject to an analysis (and eventual veto) by the Guild
Ashcroft Burnham: What sort of other approach?
Moon Adamant: oh, i would prefer that in each legislature a set schedule would be made for Const revision
Moon Adamant: say, a fortnight
Moon Adamant: it would be scheduled, so the RA works could be organized
Moon Adamant: it could be thematic, say, let’s just discuss hmmm Right of property, say
Moon Adamant: but i know i am the only person here that thinks that 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s another axe to grind.
Jon Seattle: Claude?
Ashcroft Burnham listens to Claude…
Moon Adamant listens to Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: eyes a pint.
Claude Desmoulins: 1) We’re adding yet more layers to the process. Iworry we will mire it in vitual molasses. and…
Ashcroft Burnham: Virtual molasses… hmm, we could sell that in the info shop…
Claude Desmoulins: …there’s the questin that there is still no meaningful check on the power of the SC (if you believe, as I do, that impeachment ought be reserved for misconduct)
Pelanor Eldrich: Real soon now we’ll need CDS civics for dummies, and it will need illustrations.
Ashcroft Burnham: We should see if we can get some real-world academics in to do it.
Jon Seattle: Claude, it seems to me that referenda is indepenant of any possible checks on the SC.
Claude Desmoulins: Various folk (looks at Gwyn) have proposed limits onthe SC (thinking votes of confidence here)…
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the Judiciary Act prevents members of the SC from acting as judges in their own cause in impeachment proceedings by allowing a Judge of Common Jurisdiction to preside over the Court of Scientific Council when a member of the SC is impeached.
Claude Desmoulins: …but nothing has yet made it to the floor of this chamber, because many believe the SC would veto it out of hand to maintain their own position of power.
Claude Desmoulins: But doesn’t the SC still serve as the jury for said proceeding?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, i need to go in a few minutes
Ashcroft Burnham: No, as with the old constitution, impeachment proceedings have no jury.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pelanor Eldrich: likes peaches.
Claude Desmoulins: So who makes the actual decision on the article of impeachment at trial?
Pelanor Eldrich: and will someday likely be impeached.
Jon Seattle: Can we adjourn when Moon leaves, or do we need to go to seven day?
Ashcroft Burnham: The judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: Which is a Judge of Common Jurisdiction if one of the parties asks for it and a member of the SC is being impeached.
Moon Adamant: er… is anything of this we are dscussing urgent?
Claude Desmoulins: I think we ought table the rest of the agenda to next week.
Jon Seattle: Claude, yes
Moon Adamant: yup, i agree
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think so.
Ashcroft Burnham: I shall draft the framework entrenchment bill, with two levels of entrenchment 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Before we all go, I have an announcment…
Claude Desmoulins: Great.
Moon Adamant: oh?
Pelanor Eldrich: listens
Ashcroft Burnham: Some of you might have read it in the forums, but for those that haven’t…
Ashcroft Burnham: The BBC are interviewing me on Monday about our new judicial system.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: It’ll be broadcast on national radio on Tuesday, “Law in Action”.
Pelanor Eldrich: Adam Reuters will be listening and will then do another story on it afterwards.
Ashcroft Burnham: (It was after Gx’s post in the forum about their previous programme, and my e-mailed response to the BBC about it).
Ashcroft Burnham: Adam who?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Adam Reuters
Ashcroft Burnham: Who’s he?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The journalist for Reuters
Pelanor Eldrich: He’s the Reuters correspondent for SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Pelanor Eldrich: Paschik
Ashcroft Burnham: They gave him his own surname? Interesting.
Pelanor Eldrich: or something.
Sudane Erato: for a large payment 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he gave them the company’s surname 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Intriguing.
Pelanor Eldrich: secondlife.reuters.com
Ashcroft Burnham: And I got my nice little surname for free 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: We should invite Adam along to our RA meetings…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? Millionofus and Anshe Chung also have their employees with the last name…
Pelanor Eldrich: He was interviewed for the first episode, is interested and will do a followup story after he listens to Tuesdays Programme.
Ashcroft Burnham: I did try to get the procucer here, but she and the presenter were away this week-end.
Claude Desmoulins: I hope the SC doesn’t veto judiciary again 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: So do I!
Pelanor Eldrich: Me 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm no
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: But the plan is for them to interview me at a computer terminal so that I can show them Neufreistadt…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC has done one meeting a la Ulrika 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: So, if anyone’s online on Monday evening (BST), I can introduce you 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nobody attended twice in a row, except for me, so the Judiciary has passed 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pelanor Eldrich: I gave the SC a case, so they’ll want to have the Judiciary handle it. Evil Grin!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: And who was qualified as judge, appointed as Chair JC and standing for election for the PJSP?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, there is supposed to be an approved list of people who applied
Sudane Erato: Ash, what time will that be?
Sudane Erato: The tour of NFS?
Claude Desmoulins: Let us then table this stuff. Does this create an immediate election for PJSP?
Ashcroft Burnham: From 1830 BST onwards, but probably later. I might be late if I’m delayed in court.
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: So, theoretically, I suppose, anywhere from 1830h to 2030h.
Ashcroft Burnham: Approximately.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll try to make it as well
Ashcroft Burnham: Do 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, where’s this approved list?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I’m not sure how devillish my Monday is going to be, although Tuesday will be much worse, I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
Ashcroft Burnham: (Maybe a post on “SC Announcements” is in order?)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, that was supposed to be discussed this week, but it wasn’t 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do that
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, why wasn’t it discussed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as said, I’ve set up two meetings for that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nobody appeared 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn considers now to start fining the SC members 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: That didn’t stop you from approving the Act…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know why not, Ash?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is still in effect a law
Ashcroft Burnham: I know about the SC Procedures Act…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for having the SC auto-approve legislation
Pelanor Eldrich: I know you favor in world, but maybe FRC and Dianne could be reached via gmail chat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s it, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, the SC did not raise any objections
Ashcroft Burnham: But doesn’t “vote of simple majority” in the Judiciary Act mean “vote of simple majority of those attending the requisite SC meeting”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after 48 hours, the Act passed 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The Sc needs to choose a jdiciary chair.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ashcroft Burnham: And qualify a judge.
Pelanor Eldrich: Muy pronto.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a candidate for both
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: and the RA needs the list of judge applicants.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather, two candidates for each
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Claude Desmoulins: who have been qualified.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since that theoretically doesn’t fall under the “auto-approve” system
Claude Desmoulins: Can RA add the judge selection to next week?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hopefully 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would have prefered to get them discussed on either meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I promise to be tyrannical about it!
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (you can always impeach me afterwards 🙂 )
Claude Desmoulins: I move we adjourn.
Jon Seattle: I sure hope we can turn to business other than the Judiciary soon
Jon Seattle: second
Moon Adamant: hear hear
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Jon
Claude Desmoulins: Any obejection
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on both accounts 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, who was the other candidate for Chair JC?
Pelanor Eldrich: Plasticus Duckus.
Ashcroft Burnham: I know there was Phibilus Cubgradss…
The meeting closed at 5:42 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: November 04, 2006

Meeting on 2006-11-04
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I call the meeting to order.
Moon Adamant: oops, sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmpf lol
Jon Seattle: Hello Gwyn 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: First, reports.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything new on CN?
Gwyneth Llewelyn has a report from the SC, whenever you feel it’s appropriate to listen to it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Now’s good.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: CN first?
Moon Adamant: oh, i was waiting for the branches to report 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: SC first
Moon Adamant: CN now?
Moon Adamant: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Moon Adamant listens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we’re pleased to announce that the SC did review the applications
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and will recommend Ashcroft BUrnham as Judge
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Publius Crabgrass as Chair of the Judiciary Comission
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Moon Adamant: congrats Ash 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay! 🙂
Moon Adamant: and congrats Publius too 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: very good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There were no further applications…
Jon Seattle: yes, congraduations
Ashcroft Burnham: (Of course, you, the RA, have to appoint me now that the SC has qualified me, and since there is no PJSP yet…)
Ashcroft Burnham: (The Chair of the JC is straight appointed by the SC, by contrast).
Claude Desmoulins: That was an omission on the agenda, but we’ll address it after the reports.
Moon Adamant nods
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else, Gwyn?
Ashcroft Burnham: Nobody for the PJSP yet? I know that somebody was very interested, Chigaco, I think…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we will invite a new member for the SC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but since I haven’t been able to talk to him first,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll announce that later
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, you’ll probably have to pass a vote of confidence on the next session, not on this one :9
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, to bring the numbers of members of the SC in line with the RA? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that’s all really
Claude Desmoulins: Nowon to CN.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the PJSP, there are indeed “volunteers”, so it’s up to the RA, I think, to set up a date for the elections
Ashcroft Burnham: Aha, good 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: at least three?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, no.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ah, well, no point setting elections until we have at least three, as a PJSP with fewer than three is non-functional.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ll post in the fourms again advertising the positions.
Claude Desmoulins: Given the proximity to the end of term , does it make sense to toodle on with one judge until we can elect everything atthe sme time?
Claude Desmoulins: *same
Claude Desmoulins: We can discuss that later.
Claude Desmoulins: Moon?
Ashcroft Burnham: Aha, Gwyn appears in clothes!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: CN report:
Ashcroft Burnham: Ah, rats, gone again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: really? grr
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes. 🙁
Moon Adamant: building is advancing well, we have also contacted builders outside teh group for building extra content
Moon Adamant: we now have also the legal tools (contracts, IP leases, etc) to discuss these , thanks to Ash and beathan
Ashcroft Burnham: You’re welcome 🙂
Moon Adamant: promotion wg is doing a very good work too, and we will release the campaign on teh 7th, as scheduled
Moon Adamant: there has been also happening the joining of outsiders to the CN project, namely, which i think extremely positive, people who belong to Classic Culture Study groups
Sudane Erato: great
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Moon Adamant: their joining not only is v. v. good for promotion, events, etc – as it is also a validation of workk so far, in my opinion
Moon Adamant: as said, we will start the promo campaign on the 7th, coincident with pre-sales to outside
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: i will ask Sudane to report on the reserves done by citizens so far, as i am not briefed in that
Sudane Erato: ahh… ok
Sudane Erato: our loan campaign raised about US$3400
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Sudane Erato: which, is more than was authorized
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: but is also a vote of extraordinary confidence
Sudane Erato: not only in CN
Sudane Erato: but also in our entire community
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, won’t that mean that we’ll have to pay more interest than we planned?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed…
Sudane Erato: yes, correct
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t see the point of paying interest on loans we don’t need.
Sudane Erato: ahh… i do
Claude Desmoulins: Or do we need that much?
Jon Seattle listens to Sudane
Sudane Erato: in this case… we are desparately in need of bolstering our “reputation”…,
Sudane Erato: not the right word
Sudane Erato: but… the concrete platform on which the ideals of NFS/CH stand
Ashcroft Burnham: Financial credibility?
Sudane Erato: i felt that being a bit lose with the limit
Sudane Erato: would be a lesser harm
Jon Seattle: One option may be, at the end of the process, to ask lenders if they would be willing to roll over their funds into our next sim project..
Sudane Erato: than the extraordinary vote of confidence that we can display to the SL world
Sudane Erato: yes, Jon, thats an option
Claude Desmoulins: How much extra is this bolstering going to cost us in interest above what we need for CN?
Justice Soothsayer: wouldn’t paying back principal early accomplish the same reputation boost?
Sudane Erato: the interest is 6% / year
Ashcroft Burnham: Was there an option in the loan agreement for early repayment?
Sudane Erato: we are committed to payimng back at least 50% on April 1st
Sudane Erato: and as much as 100%
Sudane Erato: if we back back 100%
Sudane Erato: that loan will cost us about 100$
Sudane Erato: 3% times 3400
Sudane Erato: it would cost us anyways… 3% times 2500
Ashcroft Burnham: Welcome, Taylor. Do take a seat and you can observe our meeting 🙂
Sudane Erato: which is the max authorized
Claude Desmoulins: There probably needs to be an RA bill to raise the limit, even retroactively.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah so the difference is not much, about 25 US$ or so
Sudane Erato: so, for $25 additional,
Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your reaasoning, but I also agree with Claude,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a change of the budget and so it should be properly authorised
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and validated by the Guild hehe 😉
Sudane Erato: if you wish, we can call the extra expenditure “advertising and promotion”
Claude Desmoulins: Any pre-sales yet?
Ashcroft Burnham: We could do with more publicity.
Sudane Erato: yes… two residents have bought land in the new sim
Ashcroft Burnham: We really need a promotional website for CN…
Sudane Erato: well, we have the blog
Moon Adamant: Ash, check our blog
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: We probably need an up to date list n the web of what’s still available and what’s sold.
Claude Desmoulins: *on
Sudane Erato: it really looks very good
Moon Adamant: ah, news on that
Moon Adamant: Clarence will take care of that in coordination with Brian
Sudane Erato: we have established a system
Sudane Erato: Brian will keep the sales table updated
Sudane Erato: until our new Land Management system is in place
Moon Adamant: that’s ver good 🙂
Moon Adamant: i wanted also to report on one isue
Moon Adamant: issue*
Moon Adamant: which is, the games planned
Moon Adamant: we have asked for residents to draw us specs on them
Moon Adamant: since the building wg cannot assure the scripting of the games
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Moon Adamant: and we have had no answer yet for any of the games 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: Have you spoken to Adam Hawthorne? He’s a scripter; a programmer in RL.
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: Adam tells me he is extraordinarily busy atm
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: so CN will have to open without the games in place
Sudane Erato: I spoke to him too
Moon Adamant: and we must schedule a new date for them
Moon Adamant: promotion wg is aware of this, and has a plan B
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, we could have at least one or two games that don’t need scripts, couldn’t we?
Moon Adamant: no, all of these need scripts
Ashcroft Burnham: Turn on damage in the arena, for example…?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: Let people bring their Roman swords…?
Sudane Erato: hehe.. pistols at 20 paces 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else Moon?
Moon Adamant: well, if you do that you risk griefing outside the theme 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: thats true
Moon Adamant: also no profit for the city, which would be a built.in feature of the games
Ashcroft Burnham: Just in the arena, just during tournaments…?
Moon Adamant: the thing is Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes but better than nothing in the interim 🙂
Moon Adamant: weapons work outside of teh arena
Moon Adamant: you just don’t die
Moon Adamant: i would prefer that you had a standing tournament, with precise rules
Ashcroft Burnham: Ah.
Sudane Erato: i agree
Moon Adamant: one of which would be… any griefing, you’re out
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has asked us to table the covenant addendum, due to forthcoming SL codebase changes. So…
Moon Adamant: that’s it, btw
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll move to Ratification of the SC nomination of Ashcroft.
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion?
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 🙂
Moon Adamant: none
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none..
Justice Soothsayer: none, we all know how hard Ashcroft has worked on establishing the judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s kind of you to say, Justice 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of appointing Mr. Burnham….
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Congratulations, Ashcroft.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that *now* is my time to congratulate Ashcroft 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Time for a new announcement on the BBC!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ashcroft Burnham: I hadn’t prepared a speech… so I’ll just say thank you, and I shall look forward to serving the CDS in my new capacity as Judge of Common Jurisdiction 🙂
Sudane Erato: haha 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Next.
Claude Desmoulins: Referenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The BBC seems to run now a weekly programme on law in SL… two weeks in a row…
Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes and listens to referenda
Claude Desmoulins: Where are we here?
Moon Adamant: sorry…. may i request timing on discussions again?
Jon Seattle: agrees with Moon on that
Claude Desmoulins: Sure. Let’s start w/ 10. Though I might suggest that if we are to tightly control discussion time in world, use of the forums needs to be more than it is now.
Ashcroft Burnham: As to referenda, I must confess, I forgot to submit my version of the bill in notecard form this week… and I note that Pat, the proponent of the original bill, isn’t her, either… 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: Here, even…
Ashcroft Burnham: And I agree with Claude about the fora 🙂
Moon Adamant: hmmm, so we do stand at same point as we were last week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn SITS at the same point 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, I don’t know whether any of you (other than Claude) have seen my version…?
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need to settle entrenchment before we can settle referenda?
Moon Adamant: i mean, do we have new data for discussion?
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, Moon, since last week, I posted my proposal on the forum, and Claude asked a question about it yesterday, which I answered.
Claude Desmoulins: Ashcroft, I seem not to have a notecard of this, but I assume you’re talking about what you put in the forums?
Ashcroft Burnham: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=472
Moon Adamant: sorry then, because i missed it
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, as I said, I forgot to send you the notecard of my proposal 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: I suspect that Moon has been rather busy with certain other things 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Would it help if I put my proposal on a notecard now?
Jon Seattle: Ash, at least we can add it to next meeting’s agenda
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, let me do that, then, now, before I forget 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m hoping that the symbols will work properly in SL…
Sudane Erato: they won’t in a notecard
Moon Adamant: hmmm, it could also become easily an independent matter, i think
Ashcroft Burnham: They come up as a square instead of a diamond.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s good enough..
Claude Desmoulins: I think we need to adress entrenchment before we address the details of the referendum process. Only a couple of people posted answers to the list of questions posted about Pat’s amendment.
Moon Adamant: this being inside referenda discussion is a bit confusing
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, I don’t see the two as separate: referenda is the *means* of entrenchment 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: (Rather, having referenda is the means of entrenchment…)
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that proposal is insane 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Pat’s bill is very specific as to limits, thresholds, etc.
Jon Seattle listens to Gwyn with interest
Moon Adamant: come on Ash… one thing is referenda, the other is a classification of proposals
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, but the sections of the constitution are only being classified to determine which need referenda…
Claude Desmoulins: If we pass Ash’s, do we not in so doing rewrite Pat’s bill significantly?
Ashcroft Burnham: …to change.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, it is different to Pat’s.
Ashcroft Burnham: Which is why it’s a great pity that he’s not here to comment on my version to-day. I don’t know what his views are on it.
Moon Adamant: i am not ready to vote on referenda anyway
Jon Seattle: At times I get the impression that we are building an elaborate government structure without that much for it to do. Perhaps we can work on growing our community and then make the constitution much more elaborate?
Justice Soothsayer: curious, gwyn, which part is insane – referrenda or entrenchment, or both?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The way a bill addresses *semantics* in the Constitution 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, what do you mean by that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But this is a comment that has no place here 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the definition of symbols as being special markers
Claude Desmoulins: If we wantto separate, we could redo the referendum amendment merely to authorize them and leave the deatils of thresholds and the like to a separate entrenchment amendment.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s the most efficient way that I’ve found to mark which parts of the constitution are, and which parts are not, entrenched.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally, of course, I’d prefer a Constitution with a certain “order” in it ?
Moon Adamant: that would surely be a good way Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one contiguous part subject to one level of entrenchment, another part for other level, etc
Ashcroft Burnham: Further discussion on the forum since time has been called?
Claude Desmoulins: I think that’s a good idea.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Moon Adamant: none, please table it
Jon Seattle: Yes, please table
Claude Desmoulins: Tabled
Claude Desmoulins: Next terms of office.
Claude Desmoulins: 10 min
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve felt for some time that the term of office should be constitutionally enshrined.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps just a clarification why this NEVER was on the Constitution ? at the very beginning we had no idea on how often elections needed to be called.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We tried 4 months, then 6, and we wanted some flexibility
Ashcroft Burnham: One small thing..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But well, we’re “mature” now 🙂 So I guess this could (should?) be amended.
Sudane Erato: hehe…. we are?
Ashcroft Burnham: If we’re putting election scheduling in the constitution, we should at least make it gramatically correct.
Ashcroft Burnham: (There are incorrect apostrophes in the “its”es).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, Sudane. iRL, a “democracy” is deemed to be “solid” if it survives two general elections in a row without social disturbances 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ash ? yes, I agree 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: Also, the Act, as a non-constitiutional entity, will need to be repealed.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as a friendly. – those even.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ll draft a notecard, hold on…
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, where did you say the text was to go again?
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees on good grammar and proper repealing of previous acts and thanks the RA for considering those changes friendly 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: FYI, my son is awake.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops Aliasi’s server has the database down 😛
Antonius Camus has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi Tony
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s one blank to fill in.
Antonius Camus: hello everyone 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: (I’ve dropped the bill on Claude).
Moon Adamant: hi again Tony 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello Antonius 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: In Article I, Section 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn waves at Tony
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: How about “at the end of”?
Claude Desmoulins: Indeed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Final version dropped.
Ashcroft Burnham: Any comments on the wording, anyone?
Justice Soothsayer: can you drop it on the rest of us?
Moon Adamant: er… when i get it, sure
Ashcroft Burnham: I thougt that Claude was going to do that, but done 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Ash
Justice Soothsayer: thanks
Ashcroft Burnham: You’re welcome 🙂
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Moon Adamant: feels a certain inexistence of notecards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Justice Soothsayer: change “seciton” to “section”
Moon Adamant: ah, thanks 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, yes, oops 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, did I miss you?
Moon Adamant: thanks
Ashcroft Burnham: You’re welcome. Sorry for missing you earlier…
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on content?
Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I think that it’s a good idea 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Moon Adamant: i agree and i am ready to vote
Jon Seattle: Yes, lets vote
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay! Another day, another amendment 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: lol
Moon Adamant: now imagine if we had to referend grammatical corrections 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL !
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Poor Fernando will never keep up 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha yes.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jon Seattle laughs and nods
Claude Desmoulins: Next, faction exhasution.
Ashcroft Burnham: Where in the constitution is this one to go?
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t really wantto vote on this today, but the issue needs to be on the table.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm… “spelled out” in section 2 should be “set out”.
Claude Desmoulins: Iv, 4, I think.
Jon Seattle: I think Claude’s suggestion in this proposal is sensible
Ashcroft Burnham: That should probably be in the text of the bill.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take those as friendlies.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: when do you think we will be ready to vote on this?
Claude Desmoulins: I suggested not voting today because the last time I brought it up, it was controversial.
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, another day, two amendments?
Moon Adamant: hmmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, this one is being discussed still, Jon 😉
Moon Adamant: well…
Moon Adamant: it could be argued
Claude Desmoulins: I’m happy to vote or table.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although to be honest with you, I don’t see *what* needs to be discussed here further (my opinion really!)
Moon Adamant: that since the citizens DO order the names on the list, they do also vote on people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s better to have a WORKING mechanism to deal with the issue NOW, instead of not having anything and needing “subtle interpretations” of the COnstitution…
Claude Desmoulins: They don’t order names iftheir not members of a faction.
Claude Desmoulins: *they’re
Jon Seattle: Well, why not vote?
Moon Adamant: hmmmm, yes sorry
Claude Desmoulins: And they don’t order names of factions other than theirs.
Moon Adamant: as i have always been a member of a faction
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, are you callingthe question?
Moon Adamant: yes sorry sorry
Jon Seattle: Yes, I am calling the qustion.
Jon Seattle: tanks
Jon Seattle: *thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. I assume that in the distant future, we won’t have two-in-one elections, but parties will submit an ordered list for voting
Claude Desmoulins: Next week, Gwyn 🙂
Moon Adamant: well, maybe it makes more sense, i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaaha Claude ? ok!
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow. So, really, two amendments in one day, Jon!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Claude Desmoulins: Justice?
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: My kids are awake so I have about five minutes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is the Terms of Service amendment peaceful enough to change it still in this session?
Claude Desmoulins: we had discussed language explicitly acknowledging that our legal system has no bearing on a persons rights in a RL court.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, something similar, in any event.
Ashcroft Burnham: It was on the forum, wasn’t it?
Ashcroft Burnham: Did you want to propose an amendment, Claude?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I do have lots of issues about our terms of services, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but here is not the place to discuss them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I mean, it’ll take too long)
Claude Desmoulins: My two year old is up and about.
Ashcroft Burnham: The forum, perhaps, Gwyn? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’t my day to make breakfast.
Claude Desmoulins: I move we table and adjourn.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Justice Soothsayer: no
Moon Adamant: none
Jon Seattle: Well, lets adjourn
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none.
Jon Seattle: no objection
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjouned.
The meeting closed at 5:18 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: November 11, 2006

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (198, 184, 178)

Meeting on 2006-11-11
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, are you still keeping your house here?
Justice Soothsayer: no, i moved
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Moon is doubtful,
Jon Seattle: Hm?
Claude Desmoulins: Haven’t heard from Pel.
Jon Seattle: Moon will not be here as she is with someone in the hospital.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry to hear that
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Just one more moment
Patroklus Murakami: are you planning to wait for pel?
Sudane Erato: hi Fernando 🙂
Fernando Book: Hi all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi fernando 🙂
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Fernando
Patroklus Murakami: while wer’re waiting can i make an announcement?
Sudane Erato: sure 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Fernando
Jon Seattle: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the muder mystery group ‘CDS Players’ has been established and several ppl have signed up
Jon Seattle: yea!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’m applying ot the ffrc for a grant to help pay for the event
Patroklus Murakami: so next step will be to purchase the materials and localise them for CNs theme
Justice Soothsayer: great
Patroklus Murakami: we should be able to hold the event shortly after CN opens officially
Ashcroft Burnham: Excellent!
Sudane Erato: whats the ffrc?
Claude Desmoulins: Pllease regrab the agenda
Ashcroft Burnham: Have you found anybody to fall on his knife yet? 😉
Patroklus Murakami: i’m looking fwd to it, shd be fun. ffrc=foundation for rich content
Claude Desmoulins: I forgot Publuis’s bill
Sudane Erato: oh…
Sudane Erato: neat 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s not actually a bill, is it?
Patroklus Murakami: they susidise ‘cultural’ and other events. that’sall from me on that 🙂 over to u claude
Claude Desmoulins: First, please remember to touch the recorder.
Claude Desmoulins: Now . Reports.
Claude Desmoulins: Did anyone else attend any partof the SC meeting last night?
Ashcroft Burnham: Not I.
Justice Soothsayer: no
Sudane Erato: no
Patroklus Murakami: no, same time as our CSDF general meeting 🙁
Jon Seattle: no, for the same reason as Pat
Justice Soothsayer: did you go, Claude?
Claude Desmoulins: I dropped in just long enough to be told….
Claude Desmoulins: ….that the SC will no longer make or allow meeting transcrpts of it’s sessions.
Claude Desmoulins: *its
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: In respect of which see: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?p=2456#2456
Patroklus Murakami: like the RA when it meets in closed session then?
Claude Desmoulins: I’m reluctant to do anything until the SC has had the opportunity to explain itself.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, Pat, but it seems closed session is now the default.
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to know what their justification is for that
Jon Seattle: I get the feeling that we are hearing only one side of this story. Before we storm off, should we not hear this from the SC?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, my point is that it’s not entirely novel
Patroklus Murakami: the precedent was set by this RA
Claude Desmoulins: Please see my thoughs at : http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?p=2451
Jon Seattle: Claude, is there a format anouncement from the SC to this effect? How do you know this is permenant?
Jon Seattle: *formal
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not sure. I had hoped Gwyn would be here to clarify things.
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think gwyn can make it today
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, and Moon are with someone at the hospital.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure you can have a very successful discussion on the basis of such partial information. seems we need to know more to be able to discuss this properly
Claude Desmoulins: I agree with Jon that the SC should be given an opportunity to explain their decision. As a technicality , Ash’s bill didn’t make the agenda deadline, which was before the SC meeting.
Jon Seattle agrees completley with Pat
Claude Desmoulins: Hence it’s being a report.
Ashcroft Burnham: It can be discussed at the next meeting, when the SC has had a chance to explain its actions.
Patroklus Murakami: that sounds like a sensible course of action
Claude Desmoulins: Any other reports?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, in respect of the judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: Since my appointment last week as a Judge of Common Jurisdiction, I have held a management committee meeting with the Chair of the Judiciary Commission (minutes on the forum)
Ashcroft Burnham: I have invited public consultation on a code of judicial ethics and a judicial FAQ, and Publius has invited public consultation on the rules of procedure.
Ashcroft Burnham: Unfortunatley, nobody has yet responded to those consultations in respect of their content.
Ashcroft Burnham: However, I have been working hard at drafting the Code of Procedure: I am currently about halfway through.
Ashcroft Burnham: I had hoped to be further, but the difficulties that Publius has been unfortunately causing on the forums has delayed me somewhat.
Justice Soothsayer: will you publish it in draft form before it become official?
Ashcroft Burnham: However, once the Code of Procedure is written, the judiciary will be up and running, and we’ll be able to use it.
Ashcroft Burnham: I had planned to do that.
Justice Soothsayer: good
Ashcroft Burnham: However, we have two cases waiting to be heard.
Fernando Book: Ashcroft, Publius ‘difficulties’ are concerns some of us share.
Ashcroft Burnham: The plan at present is to issue the code of procedure as a work in progress document, but for it to be adopted as the official procedure pending revision and consultation.
Jon Seattle: Hi Pel 🙂
Fernando Book: Hi Pel.
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi all. Sorry I’m late.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s better to have a first draft of procedure than no procedure at all.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, once the Code is published, I very much hope for some feedback.
Patroklus Murakami: indeed fernando, i think there are ‘diffcultiies’ here that the RA needs to discuss
Ashcroft Burnham: I expect that the code will be revised a number of times baed on such feedback, and practical experience.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: and hi pel 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Difficulties?
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi Pat. Nice to see ya.
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi Justice, hi all.
Jon Seattle: Hi Merimac
Ashcroft Burnham: The Chair of the JC has also increased the quota of judges to three; when I have finished on the code of procedure and the code of judicial ethics, I will be working as quickly as I can (without compromising quality) to set in place the qualification…
Ashcroft Burnham: …procedure for those other two judges.
Patroklus Murakami: hi merimac 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I am very much hoping that, in the meantime, the PJSP will be established, so that all further judges can be appointed by the PJSP and not the RA, but I will not delay the process of qualification for that.
Ashcroft Burnham: And hello Merimac 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think that would be very much a good idea.
Ashcroft Burnham: I will post on the forums when the Code of Procedure is complete.
Patroklus Murakami: the difficulty is also that you have apponted yourself as Chief Judge of Common Jurisdiction Ash, and some ppl do not think u have th power to do so. that is why there is teh proposal on the agenda today
Claude Desmoulins: We had said we would wait to do the PJSP until the next regular election cycle, but we’re not obligated to do that.
Ashcroft Burnham: I also hope to be offering, in conjunction with Publius, some education to the citizens of the CDS on our new judiciary so that everybody can know how to interact with the system.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, I’ve explained in the forums that the basis of that power 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Cheerio 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: And the reason that it was exercised.
Jon Seattle: I have my doubts.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ve got this bug where I can read notecards, damn annoying.
Ashcroft Burnham: One final point on the code of procedure: the RA will, of course, always be aware of its power to pass its own procedural rules, which can over-ride the rules issued by the Chief Judge.
Patroklus Murakami: well, i don’t want to preempt that discussion right now, but just because you say it’s right doesn’t mean the RA has to agree 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I would hope that it not use that power until after careful consideration.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ve given the reasons on the forum.
Justice Soothsayer: I think that’s one of the points in Pub’s resolution – legislative review of rules
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the legislature alreasy has the power to over-ride any rules issued by the Chief Judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: Already, even.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s hold the rest of this until we get to that on the agenda.
Justice Soothsayer: the US model is that the judiciary proposes the rules, and they go into effect unless the legislature amends
Jon Seattle: Ah, I like that approach.
Jon Seattle: Can we do that here?
Claude Desmoulins: First thing is the entrenchment bill.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, claude, for jumping the gun
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s very similar to the way that it works here, except that the legislature’s power is not to amend the rules, but to pass a bill containing its own rules, which then over-ride any conflicting rules issued by the Chief Judge.
Fernando Book: I think nobody of us noticed before that point that a legislation written to be used at full steam has problems without a plan to implement it.
Jon Seattle: Ash, I do not like that approach. It really shoud be up to the RA to approve the rules and any changes.
Justice Soothsayer: It would be helpful to have an up-to-date version of the constitution published
Ashcroft Burnham: But you voted for a Bill only the other week that had the opposite effect.
Ashcroft Burnham: I agree with Justice on the last point…
Jon Seattle: Indeed it would.
Claude Desmoulins is working on it, though the changes have been coming rather fast and furious.
Justice Soothsayer: maybe Ash can help add the judiciary provisions, as there were several different versions
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s look at entrnchment/referenda.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, I’ll do that 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Just IM me when you’re ready for me to help.
Patroklus Murakami: we’re on referenda now?
Jon Seattle: Yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, did you look at my version of the entrenchment bill?
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that you reject both proposals
Patroklus Murakami: for the following reasons…
Claude Desmoulins listens.
Jon Seattle listens to Pat
Ashcroft Burnham: Incidentally, I’d like to suggest a technical amendment to my own bill, to replace the diamond symbol (reproduced in the notecard as the letter “f”) with an asterisk (*), since it’s evident that some people’s computer have problems with the extended…
Ashcroft Burnham: ASCII set.
Patroklus Murakami: there has been insuffcient debate on the many questions raised by this proposal on the forums in recent months and no consensus as to the most basic qn at hand i.e. do we want referenda or not?
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest that’s because the immediate need has passsed. unless there’s a groundswell of support for referenda the idea is probably best left unimplemented
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m not sure that I follow: the idea of entrenchment was to establish a further important check on the powers of the RA, not to satisfy public opinion for the sake of it.
Patroklus Murakami: i can see youi spending a lot of unproductive time on trying ot forge a consensus on a largely secondary issue. i suggest taht you might want to drop it for now
Claude Desmoulins: What changed?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m talking about referenda ash
Pelanor Eldrich: I suppose I shouldn’t speak for Ranman, but her feeling was that the constitution was being changed much too rapidly this term for her liking. I feel she would support some way to raise the bar on changes.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, so am I… referenda and entrenchment are one and the same in this context.
Pelanor Eldrich: *Ranma, not Rainman
Patroklus Murakami: well, teh reason i put forward the amend in the first place was because of concerns over teh power of the SC. my proposal was a compromise in a sense that would involve citizens in decision-making
Claude Desmoulins: And what has obviated those concerns?
Patroklus Murakami: it’s clear that those concerns are no longer so strongly held, and there’s no agreement on how to implement referenda or even if it’s necessary
Pelanor Eldrich: I would like some limit on PCA. Do we really want a brand new constitution each term?
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: it’s not about whether other people hold the concerns, it’s about whether the substantive point is good or not.
Patroklus Murakami: well then, yoiu need ot work throuhg all the qns i put on the forum some weeks back
Ashcroft Burnham: I answered most of them ages ago.
Jon Seattle: I do think with the departure of UZ, that we have had a lot of work to do. Really that is true of any yong democracy. The number of amendments will slow once we have established the framework.
Pelanor Eldrich: Battle of the loybbists. 🙂
Jon Seattle: *young
Patroklus Murakami: yes ash, but the RA needs to work through them to decide on how or if referenda should be implemented
Fernando Book: I wouldn’t rise the level of entrenchment without having a broad consensus on the Constitution (and I feel now we don’t have it on some questions).
Pelanor Eldrich: *lobbyists.
Ashcroft Burnham: Which is exactly why now is the right time to start entrenching.
Justice Soothsayer: May I interrupt?
Claude Desmoulins: You make it sound as if we’re under siege 🙂
Fernando Book listens.
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando, there’ll never be a broad consensus on almost anything political. That’s why we have representative democracy.
Justice Soothsayer: In my view, the constitution is itself an *entrenchment* document
Justice Soothsayer: It is (and should be) more difficult to amend than simple legislation.
Fernando Book: On the Constitution we should have a broad consensus. The political debate should got to legislation.
Justice Soothsayer: The problem is that we have put into it things that probably would be better off in legislation.
Patroklus Murakami: i agree fernando
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernand, it’s really not possible even to have that.
Jon Seattle: I agree with Pat and Fernando.

Ashcroft Burnham: What’s in the constitution shouldn’t be dependant on what people agree on, but on the nature of the provisions in question.
Justice Soothsayer: The point has been made by others, for instance, that our judiciary Article is now a whole lot longer than RL constitutions
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s a very good reason that much of that is in the constitution, though.
Fernando Book: Ash, In the US they have a constitution 200 years old with a couple of dozens amendments.
Ashcroft Burnham: (And many RL constitutions are far too short).
Jon Seattle: Ash, the constitution should *not* represent what people agree on!?
Justice Soothsayer: I’d support referrenda to amend a constitution that sets out the broad principles
Justice Soothsayer: but ours also includes a lot of technical details
Fernando Book: In Spain, in 30 years we have only one technical amendment.
Ashcroft Burnham: What is right and what, if anything, people agree on are often two very different things.
Ashcroft Burnham: The lack of technical details only causes problems later.
Justice Soothsayer: what we need is to draft a “cleaner” constitution that sets out our core principles and
Justice Soothsayer: structure
Claude Desmoulins: Justice,
Ashcroft Burnham: What we don’t need is any radical reconceptualisation of our constitution.
Fernando Book: The lack of tehcnical details means that the political debate solves it with different solutions depending on the mood fo the citizens.
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, I’d like to see more stuff passed as legislation, not as PCA.
Ashcroft Burnham: See my post “On stability”.
Patroklus Murakami: we’ve spent the best part of this year amending the constitution, perhaps it’s time to focus on other aspects of life here
Claude Desmoulins: Do you believe that one additional RA vote is a sufficient raising of the bar?
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed, Pat: entrenchment shoudl help that process.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s only one additional vote at our current size
Justice Soothsayer: as a practical matter, it does as it requires more than one faction to approve
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, CAs are *not* easy to get, they involve compromise to find a solution that 4/5 or 5/5 can agree to
Ashcroft Burnham: Easy is relative…
Claude Desmoulins: Given that one faction’s gaining 75% of the vote in an election is unlikely.
Pelanor Eldrich: Here’s the fear of mine. Radical PCAs every term occur and thereby change the founding structure and principles. Things change so quickly that none of it can be effectively implemented and no core citizen community identity is formed as various
Jon Seattle: My fear, I will say, is that we might start passing bills left and right that really should be amendments, thus short-circuting the process. We have had several instances where bills have been introduced that proposed fundimental and structctural changes
Pelanor Eldrich: parites become enfranchised or alienated.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: that’s what the SC is for.
Claude Desmoulins: There is the additional can of worms of deciding what is or isn’t entrenched should we pass such a thing.
Jon Seattle: Fundimental and structural changes shoud be amendments.
Ashcroft Burnham: There’d need to be a working party on that.
Pelanor Eldrich: …what Jon said.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s go five more minutes.
Patroklus Murakami: but has the RA even reached agreement on the basic principle? are u infavour of using referenda in one form or antohter or not?
Patroklus Murakami: if not, the proposal fall
Patroklus Murakami: *proposals
Claude Desmoulins: I think there is some consensus for referenda.
Jon Seattle: Hmm.. I am not at all sure of that.
Claude Desmoulins: But it only extends, if I’m hearing Justice correctly , to having referenda on very fundamental structural issues.
Ashcroft Burnham: This must have been discussed at the CSDF meeting, and an agreement against the principle reached…
Claude Desmoulins: Jon do you not want referenda at all?
Jon Seattle: I do support ways of getting people more involved and giving them more of a role. But I am convinced that referenda is not the right way.
Jon Seattle: No, I do not want it at all.
Patroklus Murakami: we did discuss it, i’ll post the transcript later
Jon Seattle: Moon is working on a much better proposal I think.
Claude Desmoulins: There we are.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, Jon, you believe that 4/5 members of the RA should have the power to increase their term of office indefinitely?
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh – what’s this proposal?
Justice Soothsayer: hearing no consensus, i move we table this
Claude Desmoulins: second.
Jon Seattle: Moon is not yet ready to present her proposal, but I support what I have heard so far. It is very very well done.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection.
Claude Desmoulins: Is this the planning festival?
Jon Seattle: No.
Justice Soothsayer waits in suspense for Moon, who usually comes up with good ideas
Claude Desmoulins waits eagerly for whatever will be proposed.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Before we moveon I’d like to take care of a couple of things.
Claude Desmoulins: First, is there any problem with meeting next week and taking the 25th off?
Jon Seattle: No problem here.
Claude Desmoulins: the latter falls within the Thanksgiving Holiday weekend for us Americans.
Justice Soothsayer: I have to be done by 530 or so next week
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Pelanor Eldrich: good for me.
Claude Desmoulins: Now to Publius’s bill.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s not a bill, is it – it’s a resolution?
Claude Desmoulins: Point taken.
Ashcroft Burnham: What, if anything, is the official procedure concerning resolutions other than bills?
Justice Soothsayer: as I read it, it is a way for us to think about having a bill
Claude Desmoulins: There is nothing in any document of which I’m aware defining resolutions.
Ashcroft Burnham: Do you need a formal resolution to think about anything?
Sudane Erato: in the original procedures, there was no disticntion made
Fernando Book: A formal resolution can be a way to expres the RA will or to clarify the legislation.
Ashcroft Burnham: I mean, is the resolution in the form proposed even something that falls within the rules of the RA as presently constituted?
Patroklus Murakami: as i understand it, it would represent the RAs wishes which could then be written up into the appropriate bills and conslt amends if our only Judge doesn’t do as he’s told 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: What, if anything, would be the effect of passing a resolution?
Justice Soothsayer: i’m much more concerned with substance over the form
Ashcroft Burnham: The RA can have wishes without resolutions…
Claude Desmoulins agrees with Justice.
Jon Seattle: It would communicate the will of the RA members.
Patroklus Murakami: it would clarify the RAs wishes and its understanding of what it intended when passing the judiciary act
Claude Desmoulins puts on his cynic hat.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, so it’s a “we’re gonna do this”.
Ashcroft Burnham: Anyway, to content…
Claude Desmoulins: Ash. Here’s what I think is going on here.
Claude Desmoulins: There is a not insignificant perception among some citizens that you wish to remain the sole and chief judge for as long as possible in order to maintain control of “your” judiciary branch., to put it very bluntly.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, that perception is very unfair.
Claude Desmoulins: Regardless of the truth or untruth of that perception…
Ashcroft Burnham: I am very keen for there to be more judges, but they must be appointed according to the procedure set out.
Jon Seattle: hmm.. set out by you in your procedural document?
Ashcroft Burnham: I am working hard, fisrt on the code of procedure (because we have pending cases), and then on the code of judicial ethics and qualification requirements/procedures.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, set out in the constitution.
Claude Desmoulins: …if the Judiciary is seen as your domain, it will undermine greatly public onfidence in the institution.
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be interested to hear what the RA thought they were signing up to
Claude Desmoulins: Any gess as to when these documents might be ready?
Patroklus Murakami: and i don’t want to diminish the hard work that ash has put in and continues to do so
Ashcroft Burnham: The Code of Procedure is probably a little over halfway through, as I said before.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s the longest of the tree.
Ashcroft Burnham: Three.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ll be working on that intensively for the rest of the week-end.
Ashcroft Burnham: I had hoped to finish that by the end of the week-end, but I have doubts now because of the time that I have spent dealing with this issue.
Claude Desmoulins: I know there are cases pending.
Ashcroft Burnham: Judicial ethics is next: that’ll be the shortest of the three.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, that’s why I’m prioritising procedure.
Ashcroft Burnham: I was hoping for some public consultation on judicial ethics that might make my job easier, but none has been forthcoming.
Ashcroft Burnham: Then, I’ll do the qualification requirements.
Pelanor Eldrich: Here’s what I signed up for, and I’m happy so far. I wanted a concrete way to solve disputes. As someone representing some business interests, this was vital to me. I had envisioned something simpler, but I have no background in law. The volunteer
Fernando Book: We have a long Judiciary Act that has not a word on the transition between having no judiciary and having one functioning at full speed. And I think Publius want to fill that gap.
Fernando Book: *wants
Pelanor Eldrich: labor of a RL barrister with BBC PR is more than I could possibly have asked for.
Ashcroft Burnham: Those will include an application process. When the application process is done, I will open applications and set a deadline (a week or two should be the time for which applications are open).
Pelanor Eldrich: So I’m very pleased.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Pel 🙂
Jon Seattle: Claude’s comment, that “if the Judiciary is seen as your domain, it will undermine greatly public confidence in the institution” is an important issue.
Patroklus Murakami: indeed pel. we owe a debt of gratitutde to ash for all his hard work on this. but i too was disturbed to see that ash declared himmself chief judge so quickly. is this what the RA anticipated would happen? if not, are you happy with it?
Ashcroft Burnham: I will decide which of the applicants are qualified, and publish the results. I’ll ask that the candidates be anonymised (perhaps the SC can help with that), so that there can be no suggestion that I am choosing who to qualify on anything other than meri
Ashcroft Burnham: t.
Justice Soothsayer: did the SC qualify additiona judges per her forum posting?
Claude Desmoulins: I believe not.
Ashcroft Burnham: I haven’t seen any such forum posting, but the SC only has the power to qualify judges when there are no Judges of Common Jurisdiction, so if the SC purported to qualify judges after I was appointed last week, it would be a nullity and have no effect.
Claude Desmoulins: The other thing I heard them say is that they agree with Ash on that.
Ashcroft Burnham: I am very much hoping to have additional judges soon – it’d be hard work doing all the cases myself!
Justice Soothsayer: Publius’ resolution woul dhave us adopt an interim procedure – have the SC qualify the next two judges.
Claude Desmoulins: There can be no judges appointed until Ash completes the qualifications.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, as part of our lengthy negotiations about judicial appointments, we all agreed to sign up to a system where the existing judiciary published qualification requirements and had judges qualified on that basis.
Ashcroft Burnham: The irony, incidentally, is that, had we passed the Judiciary Act in the form that I had originally drafted, with the Chief Judge having the power simply to appoint judges, we’d probably have had the other two judgse by now.
Justice Soothsayer: I’m not against revising the implementation schedule; I think it is a good point that Ash shouldn’t have to share the burden alone
Claude Desmoulins: If it were seen that progress was being made on the qualification standard rather than it being shoved to the back burner, some of the impetus for this resolution would likely go away.
Patroklus Murakami: but did the RA anticipate that one judge would do al that work?
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice: the resolution wouldn’t give the SC any powers by itself: only a constitutional amendment would do that.
Justice Soothsayer: I understand that, Ash, we’d have to write an amendment.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s correct ash, (what justice said)
Ashcroft Burnham: The only reason that I’m doing the qualification requirements after the code of procedure and the code of ethics is that procedure takes priority because of the pending cases, and part of the qulification requirements will be a thorough knowledge…
Ashcroft Burnham: …of the code of procedure and code of ethics.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think so, Pat (your question about one judge doing the work).
Justice Soothsayer: sounds quite circular
Ashcroft Burnham: It isn’t circular: it’s linear 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: And I don’t intend one judge to do all the work: when we get the qualification requirements done, we’ll have three judges to share the work 🙂
Jon Seattle: I did not think, at the time, that they judiciary would turn into its own castle with moats and drawbridges. It should be responsive to the people’s will.
Ashcroft Burnham: (Incidentally, the idea of published qualification requirements was Moon’s, not mine: I’d have been happy with the Board having the power to qualify in any way that it saw fit).
Patroklus Murakami: in a system which you have designed almost singlehandedly. that’s what make ppl uncomfortable
Claude Desmoulins: However, the point at which additional judges are appointed is dependent entirely at the moment on when our one judge puts the necessary procedures in place.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: I don’t think that that’s a fair characterisation of what has happened.
Ashcroft Burnham: Which I’m doing as fast as I can.
Jon Seattle: Ash, you should not be doing it alone.
Claude Desmoulins: This may be very much a perception issue.
Ashcroft Burnham: The constitution says otherwise.
Justice Soothsayer: Is it the sense of this group that the SC should bring to us two additional judges for appointment, or should we wait for Ash’s proposed qualifications?
Claude Desmoulins: 5 more ,minutes.
Jon Seattle: Ash, if you had any sense, you would invite others in to the process.

Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, if that were passed, it would undermine the basis of the compromise that we all made that the judiciary should always qualify judges unless it absolutely cannot because there are no judges.
Justice Soothsayer: I understand that it would change the bill we passed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: what do you mean “invite others into the process”? I have already asked for public consultations, and nobody has replied.
Ashcroft Burnham: I am always open to suggestions.
Fernando Book: About the Code of Procedures I’d like that the RA sets some guidelines, before having a Code to amend.
Patroklus Murakami: no ash, it doesn’t, it sets up interim arrangements. that’s quite different
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice: it would not just change the constitution, but the fundamental and principled basis of the compromise that we all mad.e
Jon Seattle: Ash, public consultations on the forum are Not sufficent.
Pelanor Eldrich: Beethan and Diderot and others are legally minded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: exactly what do you think would be sufficient?
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I move we adopt points 1, 2 and 3 of the resolution,
Claude Desmoulins: I’m willing to leave thingsas is for the moment, if we go another week or two and there’s no apparent progrss on the process of appointing new judges, we might have to revisit.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, that’s not very honourable, given the agreement that we all reached.
Jon Seattle: I support Justice’s proposal.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude is being very fair.
Patroklus Murakami: why not parts 4-6?
Justice Soothsayer: we jsut havent talked about 4-6 yet
Justice Soothsayer: *just
Ashcroft Burnham: As to judicial finances, incidentally, I understand the concerns that some people have over budgeting.
Justice Soothsayer: trying to focus the discussion
Claude Desmoulins: There’s a motion on the floor.
Jon Seattle: I second.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel, do you have any thoughts?
Ashcroft Burnham: Whilst I belive that it is important for the judiciary to have its own budget, not fully controlled by the CDS treasury, I support a more detailed legislative framework as to how that should be managed.
Patroklus Murakami: i see justice 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: We haven’t even discussed no. 3, have we?
Ashcroft Burnham: The point about the present system of the Chief Judge setting the procedure was to avoid any situation where there are no rules of procedure, even though there is a judiciary, because the RA cannot agree on some or other aspect.
Justice Soothsayer: let me amend – 1 and 2. I think 3 is covered by our earlier discussion re RA power to revise any proposed rules
Jon Seattle listens to Justice
Sudane Erato: please forgive me… I must leave 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: NP
Patroklus Murakami: bye sudane
Fernando Book: Bye.
Justice Soothsayer: and 4 and 5 are not problems yet as no funds have been collected
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye Sudane 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Even 1 and 2 rather reverse the principle that the Chair JC determines capacity, since the Chair JC would then have no power to say “we can’t afford 3 judges – let’s have two”.
Claude Desmoulins: Three might be a working minimum to make the judiciary not a monolithic institution.
Patroklus Murakami: interim measures ash, interim measures
Ashcroft Burnham: It also reverses the position, as I explained before, that we all agreed to in principle, which is that the existing judiciary shoudl always qualify new judges unless it is absolutely impossible.
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t see how three judges are so much less monoithic than two.
Justice Soothsayer: of course, it IS impossible right now, as we don’t have any qualification standards written
Claude Desmoulins: This community has bad history with single person judiciaries.
Ashcroft Burnham: Which is why I’m working on getting qualification standards as soon as possible.
Jon Seattle agrees with Claude on that
Pelanor Eldrich: What if we proposed passing this if we don’t have 3 judges in 2-3 wekks.
Pelanor Eldrich: *weeks
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, or, as Claude suggests, table it for 2-3 weeks and see whether the process is firmly set in train?
Ashcroft Burnham: I am definitely committed to having more judges.
Fernando Book: I’d prefer to set it that now, to avoid any intent to cope the judiciary with judges that favour one or another position.
Jon Seattle: Even if we have three judges, I am concerned about what powers the cheif judge may reserve to her / him self. I think we need to make sure that it is not just the one who sets the rules.
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando: I have explained that I will have all qualification applications anonomised to prevent that issue from arising.
Claude Desmoulins: I move to table and give Ash a bit more time with the caveat that if we don’t see meaningful progress on this front by our next meeting, I’m very willing to change my mind.
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Claude 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: it seemed that the SC was about ready to send us 2 more judges, at least 1 of whom seems well qualified (Beathan)
Jon Seattle: I would like to vote on Justice’s proposal.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, I think that the vote was a tie, wasn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps a more focused amendment, setting a minimum size for the judiciary and …
Fernando Book: I don’t see how a process to choose judge can by anonymous.
Claude Desmoulins: …making the whole board responsible for setting rules.
Jon Seattle: we have not yet voted formally.
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Justice Soothsayer: as Ash pointed out, the resolution only sets our intent and has no binding effect. It would take until next week anyways to write an amendment
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando, the applications can be sent to the SC, the names changed to “Candidate A”, “Candidate B” and so forth, and then the applications decided on can be sent back to the SC to be aligned with the real names.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash. What heppens if we go through all this, appoint two more judges, and they decide to rewrite the code of procedure.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice – we shouldn’t even indicate an intention if there really is no need to.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude – it’s the Chief Judge who has power to issue general directions as to procedure.
Jon Seattle: Ash, I see a need to indicate the intention.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, if it was to be rewritten, it’d have to beh the RA.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude and Pelanor don’t seem to agree…
Claude Desmoulins: So we understand this as a non binding resolution ,correct.
Jon Seattle: Yes
Justice Soothsayer: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: I call the question
Pelanor Eldrich: yes
Ashcroft Burnham: The point is that the resolution suggests that the RA believes that there is a problem that isn’t there.
Jon Seattle: second.
Ashcroft Burnham: If there really is no progress on appointing judges soon, the position might be different.
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the resolution…
Jon Seattle: aye
Ashcroft Burnham: But there’s no justification for the resolution until more time passes with no progress as to appointments.
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Claude Desmoulins: A note.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash, there is a problem, at the moment it’s one of perception.
Ashcroft Burnham: You’ve voted that the SC should qualify more judges: the position is, though, that you’re waiting for the Board of the Judiciary Commission to do it…
Pelanor Eldrich: nay
Justice Soothsayer: So by next week there will be a PCA on the table if there isn’t progress on judges
Claude Desmoulins: If the process moves forward, it goes away.
Jon Seattle: exactly.
Claude Desmoulins: If it doesn’t then it becomes a problem of policy.
Ashcroft Burnham: Can that be recorded in the text of the formal resolution?
Claude Desmoulins: It’s in the transcript. If nothing else.
Justice Soothsayer: Its in the transcript of our discussion as to what our intention is.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, preface it with, “Unless there is real and significant progress by date in qualifying further judges, the RA resolves…”
Jon Seattle: The transcript will suffice.
Patroklus Murakami: you’re trying to amend the resolution after it has passed. this is v bad procedurally
Ashcroft Burnham: I think that it’d make it clearer if it was in the text of the resolution, otherwise there’d be a misleading impression given by the resolution.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I have you “kids are aware” problem
Pelanor Eldrich: I voted against, for the record.
Claude Desmoulins: OK to both of you.
Claude Desmoulins: one of mine is up too
Pelanor Eldrich: Preferring to give another week before passing.
Claude Desmoulins: Praetor.
Justice Soothsayer: On to hot tubs next week!
Claude Desmoulins: I wish someone from the original CN gtoup was here.
Jon Seattle: Moon should be back next week.
Claude Desmoulins: As to what the original intent of the Praetor proposal was.
Justice Soothsayer: I think Praetor is premature
Claude Desmoulins: Can we table this then.
Jon Seattle: Yes, please.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon as to your question about the Praetorium in the forums…
Justice Soothsayer: yes, table
Jon Seattle: Yes?
Patroklus Murakami: it would be good if a supporter could answer the points i made about this on the forums. they have been left unanswered
Claude Desmoulins: …I think having a second RA meeting site when we alread have one is not the best reason for a large build.
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC wished to take up the Praetorium as their permanent “home”, then there would be more justification for it.
Jon Seattle: Claude, my question in the forum was, can we have RA meetings in CN. Half the time, please.
Jon Seattle: I think it imporant that it be the RA, no matter where the SC is hq.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, you wouldn’t have to buy a toga
Ashcroft Burnham: Wouldn’t it be better to have the RA meeting in the same place every week, and the SC also meeting in the same place.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’d cause confusion otherwise.
Ashcroft Burnham: Stability is to be preferred.
Patroklus Murakami: i tend to agree with ash on this. sorry jon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The idea of having meetings in CN has some merit. Why have a big build just for that though?
Jon Seattle: The thing is, I want to make it very very clear that CN is an equal member of CDS. If we say NFS is the “capital” or some such we are not doing that.
Pelanor Eldrich: Woudn’t really bother me where we met. The question for me is whether the Praetorium indicates that we have a praetorship in CN. I really should read the fora more carefully.
Pelanor Eldrich: I agree with Jon completely.
Claude Desmoulins: If it doesn’t what is it’s function?
Jon Seattle: Ah, Claude, are you proposing to amend the bill that established CN?
Jon Seattle: I want to understand exactly what you are trying here.
Patroklus Murakami: what’s wrong with having a discussion abouut a capital and where it should be? i’d like NFS to be the capital of the CDS
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s a tricky point…
Pelanor Eldrich: NFS is *not* the capital of the CDS in my opinion. CN and franches are EQUAL partners with equal status.
Claude Desmoulins: Just a moment…
Jon Seattle: Will the chair please clarify what is being discussed. Are you proposing that the CN bill, the original one, be re-written to eliminate the building.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s just it.
Claude Desmoulins: The bill was one establishing the sim design contest.
Jon Seattle: Ah, no, there have also been bills since approving various aspects of the plan.
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t understand the urgency here claude. if there’s an unused building in CN for a while, so what?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to propose a capitol (or federal) zoning district for CDS gov’t builds. It could even be a zone with the builds interspersed among NFS/CN. Or we could designate a district in a sim where the builds hang together.
Claude Desmoulins: Per that bill the RA approved the CN proposal which included both a Praetorium and a Praetor.
Claude Desmoulins: Just funding.
Jon Seattle: Yes, but does not define a Praetor.
Claude Desmoulins: The proposal does.
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll deecide what to do with it later. maybe even decide on local govnt, who knows? why does it have to be settled now?
Claude Desmoulins: We accepted the proposal.
Jon Seattle: Shall I go back to roman history?
Pelanor Eldrich: As much as NFS seems like the capitol as the only sim, the second class citizen/colonial feeling that this instills in our citizenry right now is something to be avoided.
Claude Desmoulins: It may take an SC meeting to clarify where this stands.
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Jon Seattle: Claude, are you looking for a historically accurate Praetor?
Jon Seattle: Pel, yes.
Jon Seattle: I propose that we hold the next RA meeting at CN.
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t understand why claude is obsessed with the praetorium. why should our political system be altered forr the name of a buildignn?
Fernando Book: My main concern about creating a Praetor in CN without a similar figure in NFS is that it’s a way to create two kinds of sims under the CDS.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, I hope the Praetorium is done by then 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: we could meet at the Colliseum
Jon Seattle: Claude, we of the building group will have some place established by then to hold the meeting.
Justice Soothsayer: have lions ready in case anyone gets out of hand
Claude Desmoulins: This comes back to your federal district question Fernando.
Jon Seattle: lol, Justice.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, the joys of the Westlothian Question 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Please let us know where we’ll be.
Jon Seattle: Okay.
Patroklus Murakami: and btw, this needs to be a constiutional amendment, not a bill. for the reasons i have outlined on the forums
Jon Seattle: Let me consult with Moon, and we will establish a location by tomorrow.
Patroklus Murakami: and which no one has contradicted
Pelanor Eldrich: I wouldn’t mind Ali holding the NFS role of local administrator (LA) which is in effect what the praetorship is.
Pelanor Eldrich: Or do I have it all wrong?
Patroklus Murakami: the chancelllor already holds those powers over CN by the constitution
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table.
Patroklus Murakami: claude, why won’t you engage with my arguments on this?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, I’m fine with having person X as NFS local admin. Whether it’s an elected position is another matter. I feel that it can “optionally” be an elected position based on the will of the residents.
Jon Seattle: Good question.
Fernando Book: Bye, friends. I have to go. 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: bye ferndando
Jon Seattle: Bye Fernando
Pelanor Eldrich: bye fernando
Claude Desmoulins: Pat, I assume your belief is that the Chancellery eliminates the need for any local administration?
Patroklus Murakami: no, the chancellry already has constl responsiblities, if u want to change that u need to amend the constn
Ashcroft Burnham: Is that necessarily so?
Pelanor Eldrich: We could do a burghermeister but would they report to chancellor? Does the praetor (local admins) report to chancellor?
Ashcroft Burnham: Is having two people who have the power to bring proceedings for breaches of covenants, for example, inconsistent with any given office having such a power?
Patroklus Murakami: it is, for the reasons outlined on the forums. read the const amend 11 and the judiciary act in conjunction together
Claude Desmoulins: Pat is your objection to this not being an amendment or to substance?
Ashcroft Burnham: I read your forum post, Pat, but aren’t you saying that, because the Chancellor has the power to enforce covenants, a constitutioanl amendment is needed before anyone else can? I’m not sure that I follow that.
Patroklus Murakami: both. i object to this because it it a bill when it needs to be a CA and i disagree with the principle
Claude Desmoulins: IWhat about Ash’s question?
Jon Seattle: It seems to be that either this new post reports to the chancelor, and is a civil servant, or this is clearly a change in the constitution.
Patroklus Murakami: because it is premature, you’re trying to decide what structures local gov should have befreo there are ppl to consult
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, folks, but I’ve got to go
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table.
Justice Soothsayer: agree we should table for now
Claude Desmoulins: Vale quorum 🙂
Jon Seattle: Okay
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we adjourn?
Justice Soothsayer: ok
Jon Seattle: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Justice Soothsayer: none
Ashcroft Burnham: Cheerio, Justice… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: See you next week somewhere in CN.
Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to continute this on the forums
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
Jon Seattle: Good 🙂 !
Jon Seattle: Bye all
The meeting closed at 5:47 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: November 18, 2006

Meeting on 2006-11-18
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I call the meeting to order.
Justice Soothsayer: Historic first meeting in Colonia Nova
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch therecorder.
Claude Desmoulins “glares” at Jon 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle glares at Claude
Claude Desmoulins: First of all I’m sure we all want to extend our congratulations and thanks to Moon and the rest of the build team for , well, building all of this .
Ashcroft Burnham: Hear hear!
Sudane Erato: yay Moon!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, hooray, “for they are jolly good fellows”, etc!
Justice Soothsayer: wtg Moon
Ashcroft Burnham: Hip hip…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Medals will be distributed at the exit, etc
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle: yea!
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Moon Adamant: thank you all… the building wg – and all the groups, in fact – really made an extraordinary work
Moon Adamant: everyone showed the outmost dedication to project
Moon Adamant: and the result does show it indeed 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Are there other reports?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes… judicial progress 🙂
Sudane Erato: i apologize for not having a financial report
Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises for not having anything at all
Sudane Erato: i will post something later today
Moon Adamant: and i don’t have a promotion report yet
Justice Soothsayer: anybody have a count on how many citizens we have?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, we could do with a census…
Sudane Erato: well, that would be me…
Ashcroft Burnham: I know that it’s >50.
Sudane Erato: and i will do that later as well
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Sudane Erato: as to a census…
Sudane Erato: it was once decided that there should be no posted “list”
Sudane Erato: but there surely could be a count
Ashcroft Burnham: Would be good 🙂
Sudane Erato: i’ll do that later… and post it
Claude Desmoulins: The absense of ank sort of public list might have democratic repercussions.
Claude Desmoulins: *any
Sudane Erato: i leave that to the community to decide
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, any progress on publishing an updated constitution?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, do I foresee a “Population census (publication of citizen lists) bill” sometime soon? 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: need any help?
Claude Desmoulins: Not much, Everyone at my house, self included, has been under the weather.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re published but not updated?
Ashcroft Burnham: One thing to note is that there are one or two errors on the Judiciary Act on the wiki because it used the older version.
Ashcroft Burnham: It omits, for example, the definition of “judicial independence” that we agreed when it was passed.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash, if you’ll bring those to my attention via email or something, It does? Hmm
Claude Desmoulins thought he added that in when he posted.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, they’re not on the Wiki version. I can try to put together the final version if you like.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm, there are also some discrepancies between the Constitution on the wiki and the one on the site… last time I checked… which was a week ago 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: And then you can use that final version to update the constitution.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, the one on the website is rather out-of-date, I’m afraid…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: I haven’t touched the website version for a while.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ashcroft Burnham: And the ToS on the website need revising to bring them in line with the Judiciary Act revisions, too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Ashcroft.
Ashcroft Burnham: And possibly the intellectual property revision, if we pass that this meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Ash, do you want to go ahead and do your Judiciary report?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Since the last meeting, I have written and published the judicial qualification requirements and the judicial application form, and opened the process for applications to qualification.
Ashcroft Burnham: I understand that we have a number of people interested in applying, two, at the very least so far, and I think possibly three.
Claude Desmoulins: How long is that process open?
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn on behalf of the Scientific Council has undertaken to anonomyse the forms, or have somebody else anonoymse them, as one of the people who wants to apply is somebody whom I know in real-life. He plans to become a citizen sometime this week-end.
Ashcroft Burnham: The applications close on the 29th of November. That deadline may be extended if any prospective applicant makes a public request for an extension of time, with good cause.
Ashcroft Burnham: The code of procedure has been delayed by the exepdition of the process of judicial applications, but work is still in progress on that, and it is coming along well.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon has put aside a room in this complex that might be suitable to act as a coutroom for the time being.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Moon Adamant: yes, but Executive must approve the use, i think
Ashcroft Burnham: I have looked at it (it’s right behind where I’m sitting). I think that it might be a little small for long-term use, but we are not likely to be able to have anything else built soon.
Moon Adamant: (that’s what i read from exec legislation)
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi had indicated that she would try to attend. I don’t know what happened.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaaand there she is!
Ashcroft Burnham: My preliminary suggestion at this stage (and preliminary because it is the Chair of the Judiciary Commission’s responsibility to commission courthouses) is that the CN courthouse could be used until we are able to develop a bigger courthouse as part…
Moon Adamant: ah, there she is
Ashcroft Burnham: …of the Schloss redevelopment project. (Incidentally, it might be worthwhile to put a Caledon embassy in there as well, but that’s another matter).
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Aliasi, nice entrance 😀
Jon Seattle: Hi Aliasi 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: hey folks.
Moon Adamant: Hi Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The CN courthouse could then be either redeveloped to be used a something other than a court, set aside for the exclusive use of the Court of Scientific Council, or used as an inferior court of common jurisdiction, if we need one by that stage.
Fernando Book: Hi Aliasi.
Ashcroft Burnham: And hello, Aliasi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi , do you have a report?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (incoming Pelanor)
Ashcroft Burnham: And that concludes the judiciary report 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm. Only the obvious, at this point – Colonia Nova being open for business officially, I’ve been working on “what to do next”.
Jon Seattle: Hi Pel 🙂
Moon Adamant: hi pel 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello, Pelanor 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh, one thing that I forgot about the judiciary… may I add something?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yak Simash. I like a you peoples. I hear to make cultural learnings in CN and CD and S.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Pel 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins listens to Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn does not listen to Pel 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The PJSP.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Ashcroft Burnham: I know of 2-3 people who are interested in standing for it.
Ashcroft Burnham: 3 people are enough to constitute it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn reports that she has 2 people who applied for it
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh – well, we need to persuade one more person to apply 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m hoping that either Blue McDonagh? or Michel Manin might apply.
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando, are you interesteD?
Claude Desmoulins: We have three options here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, they might have sent further emails/IMs to me, Ash, and they’re “lost” among the 4500+ emails in my mailbox… 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: It’d be very good to get the PJSP up and running in time for the next round of judicial appointments.
Fernando Book: I haven’t make my mind up.
Claude Desmoulins: 1) Wait until the next regular RA election in January and do it then.
Ashcroft Burnham: You’re just too popular, aren’t you? :-p
Claude Desmoulins: 2) Have a PJSP election now and have the terms stagger,
Claude Desmoulins: 3) Have a by election now for a PJSP who would serve until the regular January election.
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, there is no choice: the constitution mandates option no. 3:
Ashcroft Burnham: There shall be a Public Judicial Scrutiny Panel consisting of between three and five members, who shall be appointed by popular election at the same time as elections for the Representative Assembly are held, and, additionally, whenever there are fewer.
Ashcroft Burnham: …
Ashcroft Burnham: …than three members, which shall have the power…
Claude Desmoulins: Who’s responsible for running that election?
Ashcroft Burnham: The SC.
Ashcroft Burnham: Like all elections 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Then it’s their problem 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: or oportunity!
Ashcroft Burnham: I imagine that Gwyn is just waiting for a third applicant 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well.
Claude Desmoulins: Hence the 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically speaking, the RA sets the term for “elections” 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, pick one of the choices, 1, 2 or 3,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I’ll be glad to talk to FR to set up the voting booth
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, but the constitution mandates option 3 in the case of the PJSP 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and coordinate the fine details with our beloved Chancellor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I agree with Ash that the Constitution directs us to three.
Justice Soothsayer: it is choice 3, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well, but we procrastinate so long, it’s almost January 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll take “3” as a choice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Claude Desmoulins: It would seem to me the SC is empowered to handle the details here.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I hope that the detail handling leads to expedition so that the next round of judges can be appointed by the PJSP, as was intended 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just need people willing to apply there to send an official email with the willingness to serve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully, yes, Ash…
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Moon, has the promotion wg scheduled any sort of grand opening event for CN?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we did a pre-opening event 😉 )
Moon Adamant: ah, Claude and all… we are working on it
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe a website posting or email message could reinforce to citizens that PJSP is now officially looking for people.
Fernando Book: One more question on the PJSP. Do we need to carry an election if we have only three candidates, I mean, people will have the opportunity to reject any candidate?
Moon Adamant: but i haven’t been able to talk to Brian for the last 3 days, so i can’t report on that
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, yes, the Kuurian Expedition want me to do a talk on our judiciary next week, and, subject to the relevant approval (Aliasi?), are keen to do it in our amphitheatre here 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando, I suppose that that’s a matter for the SC, although the usual practice is to use an STV system with “re-open nominations” as an option. Any candidate who scores below “RON” is not elected, and the election process is run again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn will need to be afk, sorry, slight emergency at work
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh – I hope that it gets better…
Fernando Book: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: OK let’s move onto business.
Aliasi Stonebender: And yes, Ash, I’m the person you need to talk to. Feel free.
Claude Desmoulins: Deed proposal. Let’s try for 10 minuts here.
Claude Desmoulins: Does this need RA approval?
Aliasi Stonebender: (although you’ll need to bug someone who’s actually in the Colonia Nova group to post the event.)\
Pelanor Eldrich: I a like….Great success. HIgh Five Pepsi Max!
Sudane Erato: i felt it should have some approval
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, that all depends on whether our planning law is public or private! 😀
Ashcroft Burnham: (Thank you, Aliasi 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: well, its not only land related, but citizenship related as well
Moon Adamant: Sudane, i assume this new Deed form has t do with thecinal requirements of the new land sys management sys?
Moon Adamant: technical*
Sudane Erato: yes… exactly
Sudane Erato: in addition
Sudane Erato: the old deed was vastly inadequate
Moon Adamant: nods
Sudane Erato: it was a mish mash
Sudane Erato: but… the form of this relates to the new system
Sudane Erato: and to the fact that the notary only accepts 4096 characters
Claude Desmoulins: Any concerns about the new language?
Moon Adamant: nods
Pelanor Eldrich: Can it handle the concept of second title to a parcel?
Ashcroft Burnham: I’d better not comment, since I might end up interpreting this in court one day…
Sudane Erato: Pel, no
Aliasi Stonebender: I admit, I like how the new one also explicitly spells out “yes, this is a government, and yes, you have to do what is decided.”
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok…
Claude Desmoulins: Since land is tied to citizenship it really can’t can it?
Moon Adamant: btw, will old deeds be reconverted to thse new deeds?
Sudane Erato: thats the problem
Sudane Erato: yes, moon
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s not necessarily a conceptual bar. Multiple people having title to the same plot of land is already possible with group ownership. The simple rule is that they’re all citizens.
Moon Adamant: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Good point
Sudane Erato: I would hope to issue all new deeds, unless someone objects
Pelanor Eldrich: Right Ash, I was about to say that.
Moon Adamant: quite a task there, Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: its automated 🙂
Sudane Erato: thank god 🙂
Moon Adamant: aaahhh, great! 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Cunning!
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Moon Adamant: none here
Jon Seattle: none
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of approving the new deed…
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Sudane Erato: ty 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Great success!
Moon Adamant smiles at Sudane
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s spend 10 on entrenchment.
Claude Desmoulins: The question I was left with last week was, ….
Claude Desmoulins: “If we do this won’t the process of deciding what is entrenched at each level be a mess?”
Moon Adamant: we also have a request on this
Claude Desmoulins listens
Pelanor Eldrich: Did Pat not decide to kill this?
Moon Adamant: actually, on this point and next point
Moon Adamant: we are working on a proposal
Ashcroft Burnham: The process ma be difficult, but the product might be worthwhile 🙂
Jon Seattle: yes, Pat requested we kill his proposal.
Moon Adamant: that – though not related to referenda – will enhance the citizens’ participation in legislative process
Jon Seattle: Moon’s will be more appropriate I think.
Ashcroft Burnham: Should we perhaps wait until Moon has fully designed her proposal, and then have all three proposals debated alongside each other, first in the fora, and then here?
Claude Desmoulins: The question remains, were we to pass referenda, how would we go about determining entrenchment levels?
Justice Soothsayer: thought that was what we decided last time
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Moon Adamant: uit also will have the advantage of being a simpler proposal – referenda is a complex matter where we don’t foresee any conclusion soon
Ashcroft Burnham: A committee would probably be the answer: it’d decide it, and then propose a bill to this assembly to modify the constitution to set the levels.
Moon Adamant: our proposal, Ash
Claude Desmoulins: Moon now that you’re back, I have a question related to the Praetor proposal.
Claude Desmoulins: The original CN proposal mentions this position.
Claude Desmoulins: What was the thinking of the proposing group on this?
Moon Adamant: is justly so to regulate the appointment of work committees with consultive powers for legislative discussion
Moon Adamant: well, Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon – like standing committees in the House of Commons?
Moon Adamant: first of all, we mut see that the CN project began to be assembled in May
Ashcroft Burnham: So, there’d be, for example, a “Prerator Bill committee”?
Moon Adamant: lol, two issues at same time… 🙂
Moon Adamant: to which shall i answer first? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s keep with committees.
Jon Seattle: Claude, are we on to the next item on the agenda?
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry.
Moon Adamant: ok, np 🙂
Moon Adamant: and hmmm Ash, not sure exactly what is a’standing committee’ for the house of commons
Moon Adamant: but i suppose it may be something similar to what we have in portuguese parliament, so i would say yes
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s a committee of MPs constituted temporarily to discuss a particular issue, usually a piece of proposed legislation.
Moon Adamant: but
Moon Adamant: ah yes
Moon Adamant: there is a difference in the CSDF proposal
Moon Adamant: and that is
Ashcroft Burnham: But your proposal allows non MRAs to join it?
Ashcroft Burnham: (The committees).
Moon Adamant: that any citizen can join a committee
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe this all needs to wait until we all see the CSDF proposal.
Moon Adamant: indeed
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed…
Moon Adamant: all citizens though must have a Rep as chair
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm… Moon’s proposal isn’t necessarily an *alternative* to entrenchment. Both could coexist…
Moon Adamant: and yes, Claude, sorry- but we didn0t have time to post it yet
Moon Adamant: ah Ashcroft
Moon Adamant: but you see
Moon Adamant: you are justaposing in teh same bill
Moon Adamant: entrenchment, which is something peaceful
Moon Adamant: and referenda, which is generrating a lot of discussion
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t see how they’re distinct, since referenda is the *means* of entrenchment…

Moon Adamant: w3e are addressing, or will be, the citizens’ participation
Ashcroft Burnham: Referenda *are*, even.
Claude Desmoulins: If there are no referenda, what’s the point of entrenchment?
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon’s proposal seems to be about consultation, rather than entrenchment. That doesn’t mean that it’s not a good idea (it probalby is), but that addresses a very different issue to the issue that entrenchment addresses.
Moon Adamant: if the CSDF bill passes, citizens can immediately participate in committees
Ashcroft Burnham: (Is a good idea, that is, not is not a good idea).
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s wait to see Moon’s consultation proposal.
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed.
Justice Soothsayer: agreed
Moon Adamant: we will pot it this weekend
Moon Adamant: post*
Claude Desmoulins: Moon back to my Praetor question, if you don’t mind.
Moon Adamant: sure 🙂
Moon Adamant: as i was saying
Moon Adamant: back in may, when we started the proposal, there was quite a different political situation
Moon Adamant: namely, we had a Guild which assured a lot of government work
Moon Adamant: the Praetor would be a guild officer then
Moon Adamant: who would be ‘in office’ at CN
Moon Adamant: doing all those tasks of land deeding, managing lands and events, etc
Moon Adamant: of course, the political config has changed a lot since then
Moon Adamant: that’s it, more or less
Claude Desmoulins: So you believ the Chancellor should be doing the things you had proposed for the Praetor?
Jon Seattle: We did transer those reposnsibilities to the executive in the amendment. yes.
Moon Adamant: well, the Chancellor does those things
Moon Adamant: or has the power to delegate them in Civil servants, yes
Ashcroft Burnham: The Chancellor could create the office of prerator by delegation.
Moon Adamant: indeed she can
Claude Desmoulins: Actually I got a lot out of Gwyn’s post in the Autonomy thread, though I still have a concern that CN at some level is nothing more than NFS with a Roman veneer.
Aliasi Stonebender: Considering the current makeup, Claude, well, yeah.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why does that concern you?
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m not sure that this could be considered a bad thing, though.
Claude Desmoulins: Well, one of the things that originally attracted me th the not yet CDS was the tight sense of community,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Claude, that was the idea from the beginning, lol
Aliasi Stonebender: As has already been pointed out, it was NFS that paid for it, NFS citizens bought the first third of plots – so, yes, it being “North Neufreistadt” seems somewhat inevitable.
Claude Desmoulins: As we’ve grown it’s already gotten hard to know everyone. As growth continues, that will as well, I imagine.
Moon Adamant: ah, but we are watching already the CN community appearing… yesterday, as we were here setting the notecard ispenser, 3 citizens appeared to have a chat .)
Jon Seattle: Also, consider, perhaps NFS in the new rome?
Justice Soothsayer listens to Claude pining for “the good olde days”
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s not a reason why we can’t have a tight community, or why Colonia Nova should be radically different ot Neufreistadt.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Then you have this notion that every important official function must be spread equally between the two sims.
Ashcroft Burnham: But not between the city and valley in Neufreistadt?
Claude Desmoulins: Someone mentiond about this being a more appropriate space as the RA grows,
Claude Desmoulins: Does the Rathaus then become a ghost building ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ghost building?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: As we grow, won’t things naturally move here (more space, less lag, etc.)?
Moon Adamant: no… but to have backup spaces means that you can, for instance, remod the rathaus a bit and not have to meet in the platz meanwhile
Ashcroft Burnham: Not all things, surely?
Ashcroft Burnham: The SC, committees, and other such things could still be held at the Rathaus.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For me, lag here is a s good/bad as in NFS hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree with Moon. NFS has been sorely in need of things like a texture revision.
Claude Desmoulins: I actually haven’t checked.
Ashcroft Burnham: At least you have all your clothes fully textured here.
Jon Seattle: What we found with the SPC is that we also needed space for committees. I think with Moon’s proposal that need will increase.
Claude Desmoulins: I personally prefer that each institution have a
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes indeed, hear hear Aliasi & Moon
Moon Adamant: the texture lag at NFS is indeed an issue
Claude Desmoulins: …home site where it meets most of the time. Some of those homes should definitely be here in CN.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude makes a good point. Stability is important.
Moon Adamant: i think the important thing is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, just remember that CN only has 10% of public land, most of it roads and walls,
Ashcroft Burnham: Having institutions sit in different places on different days makes things awkward for everyoen.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: while NFS has 40%-ish
Moon Adamant: regardless of where the RA meets, or whatever
Ashcroft Burnham: Although a lot of that is the church, the Schloss, the beirgarten and Old Altenburg.
Moon Adamant: that it is important this notion: Cn is NOT a suburbia
Jon Seattle agrees with Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (true, Ash)
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, since CN is a newer design, with better urban planning, an amphitheatre, a faster server, and lots of publicity, isn’t the danger that it is Neufreistadt, if anything, that’ll be left behind?
Claude Desmoulins: And if the Chancellor’s permanent office was here in CN would that not go a long way to eliminating the sense that CN was suburbia.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash, my concern exactly.
Moon Adamant: well, Ash, you mentioned the schloss plan a bit ago
Moon Adamant: and Ali has justly so mentioned the need of a texture revision for NFS
Moon Adamant: we can do it
Pelanor Eldrich: I would like to see a CDS capitol zoning where we can have branch head buildings in different places. We could also house the SC in CN.
Moon Adamant: and it is good to know that while we do that, we still have the space elsewhere
Claude Desmoulins: I’m going to witdraw the praetor proposal at this time.
Claude Desmoulins: *withdraw
Ashcroft Burnham: Or have the SC in Neufreistadt, and the RA here.
Moon Adamant nods at Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: And, when the Schloss redevelopment is done, the Court of Scientific Council here, and the High Court of Common Jurisdiction in Neufreistadt.
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course, we then have to think about what happens when we get the *next* island 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: My personal feeling is that each sim and franchulate have a local administrator under the chancellor. This local admin could either be appointed or elected by the residents of the sim based on local resident preference.
Ashcroft Burnham: What’ll happen when we have more islands than government offices?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s cross that bridge when we come to it.
Moon Adamant: ah, ash, that is matter for a plan of territorial expansion
Claude Desmoulins: OK, now Ash’s TOS bill.
Pelanor Eldrich: We could stand at the crossroads of podunk franchulate for the meeting.
Moon Adamant: just say one thing about that: cities are aggregators of territory 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I thinkthat Claude had amendments at one point…?
Jon Seattle: I am still a bit confused about the RL impications of the TOS revision. If someone raised an IP issue in California courts, how would this change figure?
Pelanor Eldrich: I just want to ram home the political idea that *all* CDS territories are equals.
Ashcroft Burnham: I have some doubt that it would.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pelanor on that
Moon Adamant: hear hear pelanor!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hmm Jon, thanks for asking that, I had the same doubts, but I’d like to hear our legal experts first…
Jon Seattle: yea Pel! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins agrees
Claude Desmoulins: As to TOS.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the point is, we can’t use our legal system to change people’s real life IP rights and duties, except in so far as people enter into contracts with us in which they agree to waive certain rights.
Justice Soothsayer: US courts generally enforce arbitration agreements, which is what our TOS is.
Ashcroft Burnham: However, our legal system needs to develop its own IP law (whether called “IP” or not), and the ToS shouldn’t be suggesting that we won’t handle any IP related disputes ourselves, because that’s misleading.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather indicate in the TOS that we have a legal system capable of handling disputes in world.
Ashcroft Burnham: And Justice makes a good point.
Claude Desmoulins: But that if one wishes to initiate an IP action per RL law (DMCA takedown for example)…
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Claude Desmoulins: …we have nothing to do with that.
Moon Adamant: what about
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, we could revise section 12 to make that cler.
Ashcroft Burnham: Cler.
Justice Soothsayer: not exactly, Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: Clear…
Moon Adamant: just throwing in ideas…
Ashcroft Burnham listens to Justice.
Claude Desmoulins: ditto
Jon Seattle: There is something else that might have something to do with this. Do people sign (electronically) the TOS provision with their rear or SL/character name?
Justice Soothsayer: our TOS could allow our court system to act as the arbitrator in an IP case
Moon Adamant listens to Justice
Jon Seattle: *real?
Justice Soothsayer: Indeed, IP cases might be one of the more important parts of the courts’ docket
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn wrote something interesting on her ‘blog about that recently.
Justice Soothsayer: CDS citizen v CDS citizen, not those who haven’t agreed to our TOS
Claude Desmoulins: What I want to explicitly avoid is DMCA and the like coming to us.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, all we can do with non-citizens is banish them if they don’t abide by our own IP laws.
Moon Adamant: what about using a third party like Creative Commons as a notary? would it help?
Ashcroft Burnham: But we do have to account for the possibility of our IP laws being conceptually different from first-life IP laws.
Claude Desmoulins: What about adding a paragraph to the top of Section 12…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we won’t be signataries of the Berne Convention on IP? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Moon Adamant: lol gwyn
Justice Soothsayer: it is possible for our TOS to provide that our CDS IP law “governs” over DMCA rights – you can waive your DMCA rights
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s a very interesting idea, Justice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course, our ToS must work in *all* countries, not just the US 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: DMCA comes into play because the servers are in California
Moon Adamant: but then the CDS must legislate over IP, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I LOVE that idea, Justice, how practical would that be? I mean, our government is not recognised by any other government in the world,
Claude Desmoulins: Citizens agree to use the Court of common jurisdiction as an arbitrator of first instance in IP disputes with other citizens,
Justice Soothsayer: and LL is governed by US law
Ashcroft Burnham: But between two citizens of non-US countries, I doubt that that decides jurisdiction.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although I suppose we could email Prince Michael from Sealand to get some recognition… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Worth a shot. 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: no different than auto dealers who agree with their clients to arbitrate any dispute over car sales
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm the SL ToS overrides ours anyway.
Jon Seattle: Well, though two questions. 1. Is it “Jon Seattle”, or the real person who waves those rights? 2. What about people who already have land here. If they descide not to wave those RL rights, do they loose their land?
Ashcroft Burnham: There are two separate questions here: (1) what do our courts deal with?; and (2) what effect do our courts have on people’s first-life IP rights and duties?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Jon, the issue of pseudonyms is very well documented and defined… under the Berne Convention ;()
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Jon Seattle laughs
Ashcroft Burnham: The proposed legislation that I submitted was more designed to address the first part, since the current ToS gives the impression that our courts won’t be dealing with any IP issues, which is misleading.
Claude Desmoulins: Then change the first sentence of the exising section 12 by adding, Excepting the provisions stated in the preceding paragraph…
Jon Seattle: Gwyn, but that is pseudonims used as the author of a work, not as the person who signs a contract I think.
Moon Adamant: Jon, i think the convention justly so identifies the pseudonym as the person
Ashcroft Burnham: Or “without prejudice to any power of any in-world court of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators to make its own adjudications on rights of intellectual property, or the equivalent thereof,…”
Jon Seattle: For the purpose of signing agreements? How can that be.
Claude Desmoulins: But as Gwyn could tell you, you can sign a contract under that pseudonym.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude is right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Jon, you can sign a contract using your pseudonym, yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: Yes Ash,
Jon Seattle: Okay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is just a recent review on IP law that you need to agree on a *single* pseudonym
Ashcroft Burnham: A person’s name in law has no special status. As long as the actual person is adequately identified, it doesn’t matter whether there’s a psudonym used or not.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Ash
Justice Soothsayer agrees w Ash
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to propose what I said a few moments ago with Ash’s change as a substitute.
Ashcroft Burnham: A person can be sued under a psudonym, as long as the real person is adequately identified.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You just can’t sign two documents with two pseudonyms, and both contracts on exclusivity 🙂
Moon Adamant: you know… i would request a work committee on this question 🙂
Jon Seattle: And the second question, about people who have not yet signed away those rights?
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I may, I think this is like the following example…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Ashcroft Burnham: Then our law would operate in parallell to the law of the first-life.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: phone, sorry
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe we ought to toss this to forums to see if anyone has a problem with it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, how about we deal with issue (1) first, and then think about issue (2) later?
Claude Desmoulins: The problem is, Ash…

Ashcroft Burnham: I.e., make it clear in the ToS that our courts have at least a parallell jurisdiciton with first life courts now, and consider later whether we should also require any waiver of first-life rights?
Ashcroft Burnham: (And this proposal has already been posted on the forums, hasn’t it, under “legislative discussion”, for a few weeks…)
Claude Desmoulins: …as soon as you say our courts have a jurisdiction, the question from everyone is, what does this do to my RL rights?
Jon Seattle: Yes, exactly.
Claude Desmoulins: If it does nothing, why bother with our jurisdiction at all?
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, we can amend it now to make it clear that there is no effect on people’s first-life rights, and amend it again if we later decide that we want it to have such an effect.
Ashcroft Burnham: Because the current ToS might mislead people into thinking that our courts will have nothing whatsoever to do with IP.
Pelanor Eldrich: This legal stuff is a mile over my head. 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol Pel
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm – get a taller head?
Moon Adamant: i must say humbly that that is happening with me as well 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If we dont’ want to address compulsory use of our courts, di you have language to do #1 differently than what you submitted?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hold on…
Ashcroft Burnham: “The following shall be added to the beginning of section 12 of the Terms of Service:…
Gwyneth Llewelyn is also back for some more thinking on this 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, why we don’t simply say that we’re signataries de facto if not de jure of the Berne Convention on IP? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Those documents detail very clearly the acceptance of IP rights from other legislations,
Ashcroft Burnham: ‘Without prejudice to any power of any in-world court in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators to adjudicate on and enforce any law of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators relating to intellectual property, or equivalent,’”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and still provide a way to locally enforce them etc
Moon Adamant listens to Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn,
Ashcroft Burnham: We’d need to consider very carefully wheher we want to have to be bound by what is required by the Bearne Convention.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, it’s just that, Moon. I mean, IP laws in the US are quite different from those, say, in the UK. But this doesn’t mean that someone registering anything under UK law don’t ahve any protection under US law,
Ashcroft Burnham: First-life IP law may be unsuitable for our needs.
Justice Soothsayer: i fear this meeting may not be the best way to draft a bill on the fly dealing with complex IP issues
Moon Adamant: i agree with Justice
Ashcroft Burnham agrees with Justice…
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees on Justice ? this is anything but simple!
Claude Desmoulins: Would that not open us up to someone delivering to us from a RL jurisdiction a demand that we do something to comply with Berne?

Ashcroft Burnham: My interim proposal is, however, simple, and can be done to-day, with further debate about interaction with first-life rights dealt with in due course.
Jon Seattle: Yes. I will also say, having worked in the content area for some time, there are advantages and disavantages to US over UK IP law. For example the teach act.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your point, Claude.
Jon Seattle: I can easily see this becoming very complex.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very much so.
Ashcroft Burnham: Shall we pass my amended version, and table discussion of interaction with first-life IP rights?
Claude Desmoulins: Does somone want to move Ash’s substitue?
Moon Adamant: i think is already extremely complex…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. This is not very different from having, say, a writer’s association agreeing among themselves that they’ll handle IP rights among themselves first
Jon Seattle: I think we need to study this more before acting.
Ashcroft Burnham: That would give our courts parallell jurisdiction for the time being. (Or rather, make clear that they already have parallell jurisdiction).
Justice Soothsayer: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and to become a member of that association, you will agree that you’ll comply with those rights first
Claude Desmoulins: with whom, Justice?
Justice Soothsayer: with Jon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn loves copyright laws 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table. I sense that people aren’t ready to vote yet.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, amended, limited version now, making clear that our courts have parallell jurisdiciton, and table any discussion of interaction with first-life IP laws?
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, what objection could there be to voting on the limited version now?
Ashcroft Burnham: Because our ToS is presently misleading.
Moon Adamant: Claude, and everyone… i am definetely not ready to vote yet
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, I think we all need to go back and read the TOS and your proposed amendment and think about it a bit more
Claude Desmoulins: I think several would like some time to digestthe subsitute language.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm….
Jon Seattle: Yes, lets table for now.
Justice Soothsayer: I’m not saying I’m against it, far from it.
Claude Desmoulins: Putting it in the forums would also raise citizen awareness.
Jon Seattle: Yes, that too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn points out that Ash’s *original* proposal simply suggested deleting the item, and leaving the issue “postponed” until we can address it later.
Claude Desmoulins: Next…
Claude Desmoulins: Judiciary finance bill.
Moon Adamant: Claude, maybe making a call on Genral discusion threads?
Moon Adamant: General Discussion*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why do I like Ash’s early proposal: it doesn’t automatically say that “we don’t have anything to do with it” ? ie. what the current CDS ToS states!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, Moon.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, I think we’re tabling that. I’m sure that those comments would be very welcomed in the forums 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash, i wish I had time for those
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Ashcroft Burnham: When you do post, it’s always worthwhile…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. Sorry, that’s what comes for working 16-hour days 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Ash, I propose an amendment to strike sectiosn 2 and 3.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re on Judiciary finance.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why?
Ashcroft Burnham: Do we really want judges having to pay for their own robes? It’d make us look amatuerish to outsiders.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, when this came up before we had a bit of a debate over whether we had the funds. I thought we decided it would be better to consider judiciary finance as part of the total budget
Claude Desmoulins: The CDS doesn’t pay for my “work clothes”, why should it pay for yours? That’s why I have cheap suits, btw.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a Mature sim, they can go around *naked* 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: That’s certainly an option.
Ashcroft Burnham: Sudane, aside from the robes debate, what’s your view on whetehr this is affordable at present (with or without robes)?
Jon Seattle laughs
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, that’s an interesing point about work clothes…
Sudane Erato: affordable?
Ashcroft Burnham: By the CDS.
Ashcroft Burnham: The judicial salaries.
Ashcroft Burnham: (Of course, if we have three judges, rahter than one, the judicial salaries will increase…)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait… one thing is the salary, the other thing are clothes & props 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: (But, if they’re part-time judges, they can be paid by sitting day, rather than a fixed salary).
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, for the time being, Sudane, just the salaries 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Firstly, at L$2,000pcm (L$1k each for the Chair of the JC and the Chief Judge).
Sudane Erato: it is very difficult at this moment in time to project the excess of tier colelction over what we’ll need to pay the LL fee
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, I’m expecting a new citizen for CN this week-end. Does that make any difference? :-p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I like the idea of having judges get paid per session 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “judicial costs”
Claude Desmoulins: Deopends on the lot size 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the loser pays it all hehe
Justice Soothsayer: I think judicial budget should be considered in the context of the overall budget – are judges salaries needed *more* than, say, a Chancellor’s?
Ashcroft Burnham: Per allocated case, for the part-timers, at least.
Pelanor Eldrich: I can donate robe money. Why don’t we apply for grants from RL legal orgs for funds until we can find other CDS monthly revenue streams.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, the judges’ fees need to be fixed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, they would have to be, Ash.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although Justice is right on this.
Moon Adamant: i agree with Justice as well
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree with Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: But the ultimate idea is to have the judiciary partly self-financing through court costs. But it needs some CDS money to get it started if we’re to have salaries 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the level of salary that I’ve proposed is the same as all the civil servants: L$1k/month.
Jon Seattle: Ash, so the judiciary would finance itself though fines and the like?
Claude Desmoulins: Nex budget won’t happen until February.
Ashcroft Burnham: Not fines: fines go to the treasury.
Ashcroft Burnham: CDS court costs.
Claude Desmoulins: Court costs, Jon.
Ashcroft Burnham: They’d be fixed.
Jon Seattle nods
Ashcroft Burnham: Fines would be discretionary depending on culpability.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$45,000 per case… 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: :-p Maybe not that much…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Is it right to expect Publius and Ash to volunteer until then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s still cheap!
Ashcroft Burnham: Not in SL terms..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Justice Soothsayer: as long as we don’t pay Ash by the word…
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Justice
Sudane Erato: LOL
Moon Adamant: lol justice
Jon Seattle laughs
Sudane Erato: ROFL
Justice Soothsayer: but seriously, folks…
Ashcroft Burnham: We should probably have judicial salaries at least sooner rather than later.
Justice Soothsayer: we need to have an overall debate about the costs of the governmental infrastructure, including the judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: Unless that’d cause manifest financial problems.
Sudane Erato: i agree with Justice on this
Ashcroft Burnham: In the meantime, though, our judiciary shouldn’t be paid less than other civil servants.
Moon Adamant: agree with Justice
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ve always wanted to see a debate between Gwyn, Ash and Prok. I figure it’d be an Olympic event because every debate would last the full 4 years.
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Moon Adamant: lol pel
Justice Soothsayer: LOL
Sudane Erato: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was reserved for the “Debating Gladiators” game… 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s at least table until next meeting. There will be a lot more finance data by then.
Ashcroft Burnham: Is that right, Sudane?
Jon Seattle nods
Sudane Erato: well, there will be the Nov reports
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t meet again until Dec 2.
Sudane Erato: and progress on CN
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … which will include the running costs and new income from CN…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes…
Sudane Erato: yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Will that be enough data to decide whether we can muster L$2k/month?
Claude Desmoulins: That will give us a sense of the size of the CN revenue gap.
Sudane Erato: honestly….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking strictly from my personal point of view: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, “not enough data” by then
Sudane Erato: if the issue is 2K per month for 3 months
Sudane Erato: then it will not drive us bankrupt
Sudane Erato: there is a huge fund
Ashcroft Burnham: If we won’t have any more information to decide the issue by next meeting, why table?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Ashcroft 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What about creating a bill that sunsets.
Sudane Erato: the serious issue is the long term planning of finance..
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Sudane
Sudane Erato: and carefyul budgeting
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s a substitute.
Moon Adamant: indeed sudane
Claude Desmoulins: Drop 2 and 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then the issue is: if we can’t finance the judiciary… what happens?
Jon Seattle: yes, Sudane
Claude Desmoulins: change section 1 to…..
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: if it’s not a constituitonal amendment, what does an automatic sunset clause add to the ability of the RA simply to reverse it other than the possibility of having an awful mess by forgetting about it?
Moon Adamant listens to claude
Jon Seattle listens to Claude as well
Claude Desmoulins: The CJC and Chief judge shall be paid $L1k each month in December 06, Jan and Feb 07.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sure you won’t let us forget when the next budget gets considered 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Jon Seattle: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: But my question is what it adds to your powers of reapeal.
Ashcroft Burnham: Repeal, even…
Claude Desmoulins: It forces us to revisit the issue just as the sunset on chancellor will.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash, the RA can repeal anything 🙂
Moon Adamant: ash, you get the issue fixed till next budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I find this a good compromise, actually.
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, one question first – in the US, federal judges compensation cannot be reduced due to their lifetime tenure. You don’t contend that is the case here, do you?
Moon Adamant: i agree with Claude’s amendment
Ashcroft Burnham: Instead of changing the wording of section 1, why not add a section stating “This Act will be repealed without further act of the Representative Assembly on date unless the Representative Assembly otherwise decides before that date”?
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree as well.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s not in the consitutiton.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, like Ash said.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is open to debate
Ashcroft Burnham: When we are more financially stable, we might want to amend the constitution to provide for an independent pay review body for judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this = the eventual reduction of salaries
Justice Soothsayer: well, lifetime tenure is, which has been interpreted in the US to mean no diminishment of salaries.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek more branches on the constitution! 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Any feelings on Ash’s substitute to my amendment?
Justice Soothsayer: I just want to be clear that we are not voting for something that cannot later be changed
Moon Adamant: i am sorry… there’s 2 points more on agenda which i would like to discuss
Moon Adamant: either way, in Feb there will be a new budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash’s wording is equivalent
Jon Seattle: I prefer Claude’s version of the amendent.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, that’d ultimately be a matter for the SC, Justice.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, why?
Moon Adamant: why complicate matters? you just need to rule that the jdges get paid these 3 months or no
Jon Seattle agrees with Moon
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone from the RA wish to move Ash’s substitute to my amendment?
Ashcroft Burnham: The advantage of my system is that it doesn’t involve any redrafting when the sunset expires.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s simpler in the long term 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none.
Claude Desmoulins: further discussion on my amendment?
Jon Seattle: no additional discussion here.
Claude Desmoulins: Which would, to refresh, set a 3 month limit on the salaries and drop sections 2 and 3
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment?
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Nay
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: Pel?
Gwyneth Llewelyn giggles antecipating Pel’s answer… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … drum rolls…
Moon Adamant prods pel
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: How long do we wait.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Ashcroft Burnham: Should we have a vote on how long to wait?
Pelanor Eldrich: hang on…
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: Who proposes two minutes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pel’s alive!
Justice Soothsayer: I have to head out to an RL meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Look! His hands are moving!”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote onthe bill as amended.
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor?
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Nay
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aue
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Moon Adamant: do we still have time to begin discussion on Guild?
Pelanor Eldrich: Sorry, had to skid skid bang bang vanilla face for a minute.
Justice Soothsayer: afraid I have to leave, its been 2 hours
Justice Soothsayer: bye, all
Moon Adamant: bye justice 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Cheerio!
Pelanor Eldrich: Bye justice.
Sudane Erato: bye Justice’
Claude Desmoulins: I think Pel is working on some other guild stuff. Can we wait for his as we are waiting for your committee bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye, Justice, see you soon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Bye Justice
Jon Seattle: Bye Justice
Pelanor Eldrich: Or we can chat about it.
Moon Adamant: of course 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is still a quorum…
Ashcroft Burnham: Preliminary discussion may speed things later.
Moon Adamant: Pel, always ready to discuss things 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think that will be fine. I plan to post some notes on this in the forum in any case.
Claude Desmoulins: I need to go soon as well.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, i appreciate Ash’s comment
Claude Desmoulins: Which comment?
Moon Adamant: maybe 5 minutes so we can introduce the discussion?
Jon Seattle: brb – 2 seconds
Claude Desmoulins: Five minutes then. From a quick skim, why do we need a bill if the Guild isn’t part of government?
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, Moon’s idea was that of a chartered institution, wasn’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean, we need a constitutional amendment and not a law?
Jon Seattle: back
Moon Adamant: well, atm the Guild holds one veto power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and impeachment powers
Moon Adamant: and surely, the removal of that veto needs a const amend
Jon Seattle: Are you refering to the bill establishing the new guild?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, that bit does.
Moon Adamant: indeed gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, most definitely so!
Jon Seattle: Or the amendment?
Moon Adamant: that is why we are presenting two docs
Claude Desmoulins: I recognize that AC removal requires amendment.
Moon Adamant: ne amend and a bill
Claude Desmoulins: But the New guild , why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new guild does not need an amendment, if it doesn’t get any “special” powers…
Moon Adamant: but i will let Jon speak, as this is his work
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens to Jon
Claude Desmoulins: Precedent here is that the entity writes its own charter and the RA approves that charter if the organization is to use city resources.
Jon Seattle: Claude, are you asking why we need the new guild at all? Or are you asking why it needs to be publically chartered?
Jon Seattle: Ah, but this is more than that.
Jon Seattle: This new guild as a public role as technical advisor to the executive. Among other things.
Jon Seattle: It also is required to provide public education.
Jon Seattle: so it is not a matter of using resources only.
Moon Adamant: it provides, in fact, for the accomplishment of one of the original goals of the CDS project
Claude Desmoulins: I still would rather the new guild organize itself and then the RA consider a bill giving the guild technical advisory capacity in exchange for free education to citizens.
Claude Desmoulins: Or something like that,
Ashcroft Burnham: What are Sudane’s views?
Jon Seattle: Claude, what do you mean by “for exchange”?
Sudane Erato: i’ve stated my views…. that I am open to any solution acceptable to the community
Claude Desmoulins: Or maybe not in exchange.
Jon Seattle nods
Jon Seattle: These are two services the new guild would provide to the CDS.
Sudane Erato: so long as some action is taken to rememdy the muddlesomeness of the present situation
Claude Desmoulins: If CDS is to require free education for citizens, what does the new guild get in return?
Ashcroft Burnham: Given Sudane’s views, does it make sense to ask the Guild to organise itself first?
Jon Seattle: Claude, take for example CN. This project had a huge input of volunteer labor.
Sudane Erato: the Guild does not really exist
Moon Adamant nods at Ashcroft .)
Ashcroft Burnham: Welcome, Michel 🙂 Take a seat…
Moon Adamant: hello Michel 🙂
Michel Manen: Thank you indeed for inviting me…
Jon Seattle: In exchange for providing that labor, the volunteers, like myself, gained a great deal of experience and learning opportuntiies.
Ashcroft Burnham: My pleasure. You can see our democracy in action… take a seat 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Michel, please touch the black box on the table, We’re recording.
Jon Seattle: In effect, the guild gets that labor in exchange for providing the education.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: You mean CDS?
Claude Desmoulins: by extension?
Jon Seattle: By extension, the CDS get the benifits of the guild’s projects. This is really an extension of the organization, the SPC, used to build Colonia Nova.
Jon Seattle: Its a model that we have shown can be made to work well.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re now pushing 2-1/4 hours.
Claude Desmoulins: I know Pel has some ideas he’s putting together onthis.
Ashcroft Burnham: Our government needs to be more about government itself if we are to succeed 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: In a nutshell, my proposal establishes Jon’s chartered NGO design institute without removing the AC as a branch.
Moon Adamant: ah, Ash, but you see – the guild then is freed of gov duties by Jon’s proposal and can assure an important part of creative development and education
Claude Desmoulins: There’s a lot here.
Ashcroft Burnham: Forum discussion, anyone?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table these, let everyone toss their ideas around in forums..
Claude Desmoulins: Reember that we meet again in two weeks.
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Is there any objection to adjournment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … since I would be asking Pel next: “what would the AC do?”
Moon Adamant: thanks Claude, for the opportunity to present the texts 🙂
Jon Seattle: no obejection
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing none…..
Claude Desmoulins: ….we are adjourned.
Moon Adamant: no objection, thanks again
The meeting closed at 6:20 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 02, 2006

Meeting on 2006-12-02
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please remember to touch both boxes.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I may be in and out this morning. Sick kid.
Ashcroft Burnham: No Pelanor to-day?
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: Haven’t heard from him.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we’re recording, please consent to being recorded by touching the black box on the table.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get started.
Claude Desmoulins: Reports?
Ashcroft Burnham: I have an update on the judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: Would you like to hear it?
Michel Manen: Indeed
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead.
Ashcroft Burnham: Despite the recent controversy, to which we shall no doubt come later in the agenda, progress has been made in the orindary opeation of the judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: Firstly, the drafting of the codes of procedure is coming along apace. I am now at the very least three quarters of the way through.
Ashcroft Burnham: There is a very real chance that I will be finished by the end of this week-end, or, if not, shortly thereafter.
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t know the exact status on judicial qualification yet, because Gwyn hasn’t told me how many people applied.
Ashcroft Burnham: I know of at least one person who would want to apply but hasn’t done yet because he didn’t know about it until a day before the deadline.
Ashcroft Burnham: If fewer than two people so far have applied, I will be extending the deadline to allow him to apply, too.
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t know what the status of the planning for the PJSP elections are, but I know that we have enough candidates for a functional PJSP.
Ashcroft Burnham: And some of you may have noticed with some interest Beathan’s indication that he is interseted in setting up arbitration and mediation services in the CDS.
Ashcroft Burnham: When the Codes of Procedure are issued, the judiciary will be open for business.
Ashcroft Burnham: I will then, along with Publius whose function the constitution provides that it is, work out a programme of education for those who need to deal with the judiciary (members of the SC, marshals of the peace, the chancellor, etc.) in its operations.
Ashcroft Burnham: I hope to work on guide to procedures and a judicial FAQ to help people to understand how things work.
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn has kindly agreed to set up a wiki on her site so that the code of procedure can be published in an easy to use format.
Ashcroft Burnham: That is it for now 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Tank you Ashcroft.
Claude Desmoulins: *Thank
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any other reports?
Michel Manen: Thanks for all the hard work .
Sudane Erato: I’ll have a treasurers report after the weekend
Moon Adamant: Claude, no report from the SPC, which is meeting tomorrow
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Moon Adamant: btw, everyone interested in promotion and winter holiday planning will be welcome to show up 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, for the treasurer’s report, will you give us a separate breakdowwn of CN expansion expenses?
Sudane Erato: ok… sure
Claude Desmoulins: On to debt limits.
Sudane Erato: that will be more informal, since those expenses are not separated in the books
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh, Moon, I must make a note… 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello all, good morning 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning, Gwyn 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be here just for a handful of minutes, sadly…
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Sudane Erato: 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My mother is celebrating her 70th anniversary, and waiting for me to join her for lunch, hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: Goodness – good for her 🙂
Michel Manen: congratulations 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Debt limits. This bill would retroactively approve what Sudane did.
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion?
Ranma Tardis: what is the reason for raising these limits?
Sudane Erato: the reason is that we have already borrowed the money
Moon Adamant: i fully trust Sudane’s expertise in financial matters 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: back in a couple
Sudane Erato: and this simply legitimizes my acceptance of those additional loans
Gwyneth Llewelyn sees no problem with that
Ranma Tardis: my question would be how much of these loans have been committed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Especially, since I’ve heard we have 61-63 citizens these days 🙂
Sudane Erato: Committed?
Sudane Erato: in what sense… do you mean spent?
Justice Soothsayer: spent?
Ranma Tardis: yes committed is spend and how much is not committed?
Sudane Erato: we are way within budget for the creation of CN, meaning…
Sudane Erato: that most of the loaned money is not spent… it is in the “bank”
Sudane Erato: that will be clear as soon as i can publish the balance sheet for Nov 30
Justice Soothsayer: in absence of our LRA, shall we continue?
Moon Adamant: oops
Justice Soothsayer: other discussion on the proposed raise of debt ceiling?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: i did notice a certain sound of silence 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hope the child is ok
Moon Adamant: indeed!
Claude Desmoulins: He’s just very uncomfotable.
Moon Adamant: 🙁
Sudane Erato: ahhhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m sorry to hear that, Claude 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: Bad ear infection
Sudane Erato: oooohh 🙁
Moon Adamant: poor thing :((
Ashcroft Burnham: That doesn’t sound nice.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything further on debt?
Sudane Erato: earache!!
Jon Seattle: No, I hope your child feels better Claude
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor ofhe bill…
Moon Adamant: aye
Michel Manen: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Claude Desmoulins reminds Michel that he’s not on RA 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: hmmmm, i will have to leave shortly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just the, uh, “spirit” 😀
Michel Manen: sorry
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Moon Adamant: dunno if you got my IM yesterday, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: No
Moon Adamant: ah, now i know why you didn’t answer 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Judiciary oversight. I have withdrawn my repeal proposal and acepted Ash’s substitute as a friendly.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Jon Seattle: In RL I am also at a workshop away from home and will have to leave within a half hour
Claude Desmoulins: brb- Justice, could you manage this for a few minutes?
Justice Soothsayer: Sure
Justice Soothsayer: Gwyn, can you report on status of judicial apps
Gwyneth Llewelyn asks the acting LRA if I could just make a short comment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok ty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t received any application for Judge
Justice Soothsayer: please do
Ashcroft Burnham: To add to that…
Moon Adamant listens
Justice Soothsayer: i know you have to leave soon
Ashcroft Burnham: I know of two specific people who are interested.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and three persons did candidate themselves for the PJSP
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Flyngroc was instructed to set up the voting booth for those elections, ASAP
Ashcroft Burnham: I know that one of them had trouble downloading the form, and another didn’t know about it until it was too late.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I couldn’t download it myself yesterday
Ashcroft Burnham: So, I’ve extended teh deadline to the 8th of December. It’s unlikley that it will be extended furhter.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The page shows the PDF correctly, but without a link to it!
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest that you post a copy of the PDF on the forums, if possible,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or on the wiki
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, can you host the PDFs on your server?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: somewhere else as a “fallback” if the site refuses to show up a link for the PDF
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t think that I can, can I? They don’t allow file uploads.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sent it to me by email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It doesn’t? Oh
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ll do that now 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Not unless there’s a secret way of doing it that I don’t know about.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One comment on the Judiciary Oversight Amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why “Whenever fewer than three Judges”…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why three?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “three” mystical number was devised by Publius
Ashcroft Burnham: Sent 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as being the minimum for having a Judiciary which works impartially and in neutrality and fairness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but he could raise the limit to whatever number he wants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, this Act does not really solve the issue of the deadlock, does it?
Ashcroft Burnham: I think that the reasoning behind three is that one is considered too dangerous, and two creates the potential for imapsse.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, i understand Publius’ arguments perfectly
Claude Desmoulins: Actually four has come up to allow a multijudge panel to hear appeals which would not include the trial judge.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But “three” is just a number, there is no special significance to it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, yes it does: it simply allows the SC to appoint Special Commissioners of the Judiciary to sit on the Board of hte Judiciary Commission 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: One is the loneliest number.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: True, though it’s more than one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, but they’re not Judges, so technically, the Judiciary would not be “complete”.
Ashcroft Burnham: They’ll then have the power to vote on the board on the adoption of teh qualiifcation requirements and procedures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And still would be unable to work.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, the judiciary isn’t unable to work with fewer than three judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… it looks to me that there is the good intent of solving one issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: while the problem is elsewhere 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s undesirable to have fewer if more are available, but it can work.
Ashcroft Burnham: Where do you think that the problem is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ? that’s not what Publius said
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, I don’t agree with Publius.
Claude Desmoulins: The problem this seeks to solve I believe is the development of the judicial frameworks being a monolithic process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the problem is that the Chief of the JC can set a minimum of judges that is *higher* than the number of existing judges,
Ashcroft Burnham: The problem of having too few judges is solved by getting more judges 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which was not foreseen
Ashcroft Burnham: Whenever that happens, Gwyn, the Board needs to qualify judges, which it is doing 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: And then the PJSP needs to appoint them, whcih hopefully it will do 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Claude ? it’s only monolithic if more Judges are *required* for it to work, than the number of judges who are available 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: though with no applications!
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, that’s for the reasons that I’ve given. I know two people who are specifically interested and intending to submit applications.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn does have a point here. What happens if the CJC stipulates more judges than we have applicants or interested applicants?
Justice Soothsayer: which is what we heard at the last meeting as well, Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Then we have unfilled vacancies.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would say, the same happens 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Unfilled vacancies does not entail a deadlock.
Claude Desmoulins: Was that what you were getting at, Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Claude, that was the point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Publius stated, as it his power to do,
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, one of those applicants at the last meeting was Beathan. The other I was surprised to learn hadn’t applied, althoug I know that he did have a problem with downloading the forms shortly before the expiry of the deadline.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the minimum amount of Judges should be three
Moon Adamant: i am sorry everyone, but must leave now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was interpreted as meaning: “the Judiciary cannot work with less than three Judges”
Ashcroft Burnham: Ohh, pity 🙁 HCeerio!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Justice Soothsayer: bye Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is one Judge, and two vacancies
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn: there’s no constitutional basis for that interpretation.
Claude Desmoulins: Bye Moon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, after this Act gets approved,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Publius might read the good arguments for *four* judges,
Moon Adamant: good bye everyone 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye Moon 🙂
Moon Adamant: see you all soon 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and declare: “the Judiciary cannot work with less than four”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus deadlocking again.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t see this act as addressing the judge problem, just the problem about procedure creation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And so on.
Ashcroft Burnham: The judiciary can work when there are vacancies, but it has a duty to do what it can to fill the vacancies.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Ash, that is an interpretation!
Ashcroft Burnham: The “judge problem” is solved by appointnig more judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with the solution ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just not with the way it is being suggested to implement it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Any other interpretaiton would be absurd, Gwyn: why should an organisation be rendered incapable of functioning whenever a vacancy arises?
Michel Manen: I do not see why this is a problem
Claude Desmoulins: But the question remains, when there aren’t enough, what is the status of the institution? Can it legally operate?
Michel Manen: exactly
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, of course. Nothing says otherwise.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because Publius did not say that there are “vacancies”, he declared that the judiciary “could not work with less than 3 judges”
Ashcroft Burnham: He doesn’t have the power to do so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
Ashcroft Burnham: He only has the power to set the quota.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Ashcroft ? that IS the point
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s in teh constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there is room for interpretation ? don’t you agree? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: How he expresses the setting of the quota isn’t relevant to what he has the power to do.
Claude Desmoulins: I believe the SC would decide the legal status of a judiciary not having the minimum number of judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happens to a Judiciary that does NOT meet the quota? Can it work, or not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t agree that there’s any conceivable basis for interpeting the constitution as saying that the judiciary cannot function when there are fewer judges than the quota is set.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I’d like to raise a couple of points here – may I have the soapbox?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, i should have published that decision 😛 … the SC, reading the way things were worded, assumes that the purpose of the legislator
Jon Seattle listens to Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: was to have the Chair of the JC establish the number of judges for a fully functional Judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: The constitution says: (b) to determine the total number of Judges of Common Jurisdiction who shall hold office at any given time, who shall each hold office until resignation or successful impeachment, whichever is sooner;

Justice Soothsayer: At our last meeting we resolved – unanimously, I think, that there should be at least 3 judges (echoing the decision by Publius)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If that interpretation was wrong ? the legislation should be clarified to explain what the Chair of the JC can or cannot do, when setting up the minimum quota.
Ashcroft Burnham: That interpretation is inconsistent with the right to an effective judiciary, since it would render the judiciary inoperable whenever there are vacancies.
Justice Soothsayer: we also decided that if this was not done soon, we would change the method of judicial selection
Michel Manen: fully functional…. not fully functional may be partiall functional.. not totally unable to operate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Ash.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Michel ? that should be +clear*
Ashcroft Burnham: So, it is not one that the SC has the power to make.
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think Justice has a point.
Ashcroft Burnham: I thought that it was clear: nothing in the constitution prevents a Judge of Common Jurisdiction exercising any of the powers of a Judge of Common Jurisdiction merely because there are vacancies.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Justice on that, on a personal basis
Justice Soothsayer: and we sit exactly today where we were at the last meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was NOt clear for the SC 😛
Ashcroft Burnham: The powers of Judges of Common Jurisdiction are not predicated on the number of Judges of Common Jurisdiciton who hold office.
Michel Manen: again, why is this an issue? vancancies will be filled ASAP…. the judiciary goes on
Justice Soothsayer: with several interested citizens having declar5ed that they wont apply under the current scheme
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, that’s the SC’s problem.
Claude Desmoulins: If I may…
Ashcroft Burnham: I agree with Michel.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s how any real-life judiciary works.
Claude Desmoulins: If I may,,,,(looks for soapbox)
Ashcroft Burnham: And two people who specifically said that they will apply under it.
Michel Manen: can you imagine a supre court suspending its work at any time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: using that argument, the judiciary would work with zero judges 😉 ? also, then it’s pointless to have the Chair of the JC to establish the MINIMUM number
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, the judiciary *can* work with zero judges: the Dean of the Scientific Council can appoint a special judge where there are no judges available.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only in specific cases.
Claude Desmoulins: Please.
Ashcroft Burnham: “Where there is no judge available” 🙂
Michel Manen: inded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, zero judges IS a specific case.
Ashcroft Burnham listens to Claude
Claude Desmoulins gavels for some sortof order here.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have to leave anyway. It’s just that you have finally to decide, once and for all, who interprets the law 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND set that in writing.
Ashcroft Burnham: Judges interpret the law.
Michel Manen: is that in doubt?
Justice Soothsayer: So does the SC
Michel Manen: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It definitely is, Michel.
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that we have a situation where there are not suffiicent checks on the power of the chief judge if that judge decides to run things by himself or to exclude important segments of the qualified population from being a judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: The SC interprets the constitution…
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s why we have the idea of Special Commissioners of the Judiciary, Jon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No ? it *validates* the law by interpreting the Constitution
Claude Desmoulins: Now, the situation that birthed the current mess was a concern that the judiciary is monolithic. While Ash is right that RL judiciaries function with vacancies, no RL judiciary with only one judge would be considered credible.
Ashcroft Burnham: It has the power to veto acts of the RA, to hold impeachment proceedings, and to allow an appeal from Courts of OCmmon Juirisdictio.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Claude, as well as with Publius own argument
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s why I’ve been working so hard to get people qualified.
Michel Manen: this is an anomalous situation unlikely to reoccur
Claude Desmoulins: True Michel….
Jon Seattle: I will have to go in five minutes.
Ashcroft Burnham: However, there are likely to be judicial vacancies arising from time to time frequently.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now it apparently has a new power ? interpreting the law that regulates its own proceedings 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: The judiciary cannot be non-functional whenever that happens.
Claude Desmoulins: The issue remains that if the Judiciary hears cases in its current state it is unlikely to have much credibility.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, time is up for me… sorry about that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn continues to agree with Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: We cannot delay the hearing of cases because we have vacancies.
Michel Manen: isnt that why we will choose judges in the near future?
Ashcroft Burnham: Exactly, Michel.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve delayed them for some time now. Far better to wait another couple of weeks and have a credible system in place.
Ashcroft Burnham: The system is credible.
Michel Manen: why are we so concerned with this marginal case due to our being at our point of origin of our judiciary?
Ashcroft Burnham: Michel makes a good point.
Jon Seattle: I must go. Bye all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Good-bye 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye Jon 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: the concern is with the implementation of the judiciary, Michel. Many feel that the qualification procedures are too onerous
Michel Manen: ah
Justice Soothsayer: or ill advised
Michel Manen: then this is the real issue
Ashcroft Burnham: The point always was that the important thing is that the judiciary should determine how skilled that judges should be.
Justice Soothsayer: leaving us with a one person judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: And that popular forces should not be able to dilute that skill.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s the whole point of not having a purely popular process.
Ashcroft Burnham: That was agreed by the legislature in the Great Compromise on judicial selection.
Justice Soothsayer: But now that we see how it has been working, we voted last meeting that changes may need to be made.
Sudane Erato: Claude, may i suggest that with only two RA members left, that the meeting be adjourned?
Claude Desmoulins: Good suggestion.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, that is not reasonable: the Great Compromise *entailed* that popular forces should not be able to dilute the skill requirement. Isn’t that exactly what you’re wanting to do now?
Michel Manen: by definition a judiciary depends on the skills of its members; and whilst a judicial background is not required (the US Supreme Court does not require it) there should be quite clear criteria designed to maintain its integrity and compentence
Ashcroft Burnham: In other words, how is what you seeking to do anything other than renege on a compromise made in good faith?
Claude Desmoulins: I think what I want is for the skill requirement to not be a single determination and for some sort of meaningful appellate process to be in place by the time the first case is heard.
Claude Desmoulins: *single person.
Justice Soothsayer: members of the RA are entitled — in all good faith — to conclude that they may have erred
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, the first is addressed by the Special Commissioners proposal.
Sudane Erato: i must go
Claude Desmoulins: If you heard a case now, Ash, and the loser appealed, who would hear that appeal?
Sudane Erato: goodbye all 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Jusitce: it is dishonest to renege on a principled comprommise made in good faith.
Justice Soothsayer: I find it objectionable to be called dishonest simply becuase I disagree with you.
Michel Manen: Claude if i may…. this hypothetical is not lieky to occur
Ashcroft Burnham: As to appeals, there’s nothing to stop the appeal processes being constituted *after* the case is heard, since appeals are heard after those cases.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, the dishonesty arises out of reneging on an agreed position, not merely disagreeing with me.
Michel Manen: Gentlemen, ad hominem arguments are not very constructuve
Ranma Tardis: I think that life is a learning experience and while in this process can change our previous decisions
Claude Desmoulins: First of all, we’re adjourned.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, we must adjourn this meeting in the absence of a quorum (and before things detiorate further)
Claude Desmoulins: Ash please touch the recorder
Ashcroft Burnham: Sorry, I thought that I had.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 09, 2006

Meeting on 2006-12-09
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau wonders why none of the rooms where our government bodies meet have any windows with a nice view
Ranma Tardis: think it is the textures
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Moon …
Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon 🙂
Moon Adamant: let me send Marcus back into oblivion 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: imagine if this room had a view of the platz
Diderot Mirabeau: Marcus?
Ranma Tardis: good afternoon Moon 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: I’ve already become oblivious to him it seems
Claude Desmoulins: It would also up everybody’s rendering load, though
Moon Adamant: Marcus Valerius Corvus, my crow
Diderot Mirabeau: true … but that can be dealt with through draw distance
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes how could I forget … tut tut tut
Diderot Mirabeau: hello jurists .. did you drive here together? 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi Justice … Oni … Jon)
Justice Soothsayer: hi
Ashcroft Burnham: Morning 🙂
Oni Jiutai: Hello. I hope not. If they were following me, we took the long way round, I got lost.
Oni Jiutai: Hi, All.
Diderot Mirabeau: it seems the jurists minibus has arrived 🙂
Oni Jiutai: lol
Patroklus Murakami: hi 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: waiting for chairs to fully rez
Moon Adamant: gwyn will be around in no time, btw
Ashcroft Burnham: That might be her now…
Moon Adamant: and hello everyone just arrived 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: What about Pelanor?
Fernando Book: Hi all.
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Fernando 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning.
Patroklus Murakami: wow. cd be a full house. standing room only. glad i got here early and grabbed a seat
Ashcroft Burnham: Aha! Pelanor.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: He will I hope arrive shortly.
Ranma Tardis: yes should be on his way
Justice Soothsayer: wow, claude, longest agenda i’ve seen
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello 🙂 wow, full house!
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning, Gwyn.
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or almost 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn
Fernando Book: Hi Gwyn.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have so many and so much to do…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good morning to all 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Pelanor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Pel 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: …I think we’ll do this to keep things from descending into utter chaos.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: hi Gwyn and Pel
Jon Seattle: Hi Ashcroft, Claude, Pel, Pat, Fedando, Ranma, Oni, Diderot
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: On bills, we’ll let the RA comment first, then open up from the floor.
Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: Is that the standard procedure?
Pelanor Eldrich: Hello Everyone.
Claude Desmoulins: Please remember to get an agenda and to touch the recorder.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Good morning and let
Claude Desmoulins: us begin
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any reports?
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, from the judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning, Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hello Sudane!)
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi Sudane)
Moon Adamant: hi Sudane :))
Fernando Book: Please, sit down.
Ashcroft Burnham: Since the last meeting, the Codes of Procedure (first draft) have been issued, and we have, I believe, three applicants for qualification as a judge.
Jon Seattle: Hi Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: hello 🙂
Moon Adamant: brb, sorry
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham: We should have met in the preretorium…
Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to complement Ashcroft’s information saying that any applications not received yet by Ash due to the anonymisation process are entirely my fault
Ashcroft Burnham: Anyway, I understand that there are a number of cases waiting now to be filed: there is a precedent available for notices of summary banishment, and I hope to have precedents for notices in the ordinary and notices in response soon.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hello again, Moon 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … the deadline did run on midnight PST, while I was asleep, and there is some anonymisation left for me to do.
Moon Adamant: sorry, back
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you, Gwyn, for your hard work on anonomysation.
Justice Soothsayer: you sleep, gwyn?
Ashcroft Burnham: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sometimes, Justice 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Until other precedents are available, no doubt our thriving legal community can be creative 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I have yet to hear from Publius as to whether anything has been filed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Marshals of the peace should note that notices of summary banishment should be filed and served within 48 hours of a person being banished.
Ashcroft Burnham: The banishment should be revoked after 14 days unless a court otherwise orders.
Ashcroft Burnham: Full training for marshals of the peace will be available on request: IM me or Publius if you are interested 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds herself to file one.
Ashcroft Burnham: Anyway, that’s the judiciary.
Claude Desmoulins: Other reports?
Sudane Erato: none here
Justice Soothsayer: sudane, is CN at breakeven yet?
Claude Desmoulins: seeing none
Sudane Erato: ahh…
Moon Adamant: none here as well, hopefully tomorrow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: that would be hard to say
Justice Soothsayer: fair enough
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fear when the accountant says “it’s hard to say if we’re making money or not”…. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: i would say, briefly, no
Ashcroft Burnham: Sudane, Oni here would like to help CN make a little more money 😉
Claude Desmoulins: OK on to the first agenda item.
Sudane Erato: not yet
Sudane Erato: yes, I received a message from Oni
Sudane Erato: and we’;ll be doing that today
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Oni Jiutai: 🙂 Many thanks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, welcome to the cDS, Oni 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Welcome!
Claude Desmoulins: Citizen information. This was written in response to some recent issues about knowing who is and isn’t a citizen. There was confusion about Ranma’s status and Flyingroc was concerned about upcoming elections and setting up the voting booth
Oni Jiutai: Thanks. Good to be here.
Claude Desmoulins: I know some have provacy concerns, though.
Claude Desmoulins: *privacy
Jon Seattle: Yes, I have some also.
Sudane Erato: i’m not sure why there was confusion over Ranma’s status
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s start w/ RA. Is there a less intrusive way to provide everyone the information they need?
Jon Seattle: How does this work with group ownership? Does this mean that any group which owns land must publish its membership list?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, a technicality, Sudane ? if the LRA allows me to explain ? Flyingroc’s tool does not deal with members in groups being citizens as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane.
Claude Desmoulins: Since Ranma had sold her individual plot, there was some question as to whether she was still a citizen and had standing to submit her bills.
Sudane Erato: ok
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, one concern I have with the bill is that you say “identities” should be published. we need to clarity that this does not mean RL identities, just avatar names.
Sudane Erato: but that was merely because there is no published, up to date, lits of citizens
Claude Desmoulins: I certainly meant avatar names
Sudane Erato: she was indeed a citizen thru out the process
Claude Desmoulins: I would take a friendly to that effect.
Justice Soothsayer: so moved
Justice Soothsayer: change “identies” to “avatar names”
Jon Seattle: I would like to amend this so that only the citizen list is published, not group affiliation.
Sudane Erato: i would agree with Jon
Justice Soothsayer: yes, that makes sense too
Claude Desmoulins: The bill as written says nothing about groups.
Moon Adamant: that would solve the technicalities, i agree with that
Claude Desmoulins: What exactly are you proposing Jon?
Moon Adamant: brb
Justice Soothsayer: publishing names attached to parcels would show group ownership
Moon Adamant: back
Jon Seattle: Since we do need a list of citizens, after the list of plots (showing just group ownership if that case) we list all persons who are citizens by virtue of group ownershiip without listing individual’s affiliations.
Claude Desmoulins: So, Jon are you proposing to strike “and the identities of the CDS parcels they own”?

Jon Seattle: Just that group ownership not be included in that list.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that only a list of citizens, certified, is necessary
Claude Desmoulins: So the information you wish to exclude is which citizens belong to which groups?
Jon Seattle: Yes, I would also support Sudane’s suggestion here.
Jon Seattle: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … we need a “Cenus Act” clarifying this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: It isn’t as important, but how does one knowwhat land s owned or not?
Sudane Erato: that info can be found on the site
Claude Desmoulins: for example, CN land hub page is *way* out of date.
Sudane Erato: the ownership of each parcel, whether by group
Sudane Erato: or by individual
Sudane Erato: yes… the land listings are in process of being revamped
Sudane Erato: and i apologize for the delay
Sudane Erato: however, a certyified list of citizens can easily be produced
Sudane Erato: only needed is the day of certification
Jon Seattle: Now I think of it, I think Sudan’s suggeston is a better one.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take Jon’s as a friendly.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, exactly what is your suggestion.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Fernando Book: Hi FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves* at FR
Sudane Erato: my suggestion is that we simply have a certified list of citizens..
Moon Adamant: hi FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: in a public place
Flyingroc Chung: hello…. glad to see everyone p on this ungodly our
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s half past noon for me :-p
Claude Desmoulins: What if we had this:
Claude Desmoulins: The avatar names of CDS citizens shall be considered public information. The Treasurer shall make this information available both in world and via the world wide web.
Sudane Erato: thats great with me
Ashcroft Burnham: Why “shall be considered public information” rather than “shall be published”?
Jon Seattle: souds very good
Claude Desmoulins: Comments from non RA?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes…
Fernando Book: Yes.
Ashcroft Burnham: What would be sensible is to have two lists…
Claude Desmoulins listens
Ashcroft Burnham: (1) a list of all citizens, not related to a list of land parcels; and (2) a list of all land parcels with the citizen *or* group who owns each one.
Claude Desmoulins: Fernando?
Sudane Erato: yes, my proposal is coincident with Ash’s
Flyingroc Chung: we already have (2)
Jon Seattle: Ash, this may allow someone to identify group membership by comparing the two lists.
Sudane Erato: exactly FR
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, no, since one wouldn’t know who was in which group where there is more than one group.
Fernando Book: The bill should have a sentence stating that the groups must give the Treasurer the group information.
Sudane Erato: yes
Fernando Book: I.e., the list of members.
Ashcroft Burnham: You’d know that some citizens were citizens by virtue of being a group, but not of which group that they were a member, unless there was only one group.
Sudane Erato: well, Fernando, the citizen must do that anyway
Sudane Erato: if someone wishes to be a citizen
Sudane Erato: althou, i might suggest that the Treasurer is not the right official
Jon Seattle: Ah, but if there is only one or two groups, then this would be a good indication
Claude Desmoulins: Who is?
Sudane Erato: either the Chancellor or the EO
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Claude’s question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Pelanor Eldrich: If I may be so bold. I feel the EO needs to know so that citizens can buy and sell parcels. The treasurer needs to know in order to collect land use fees (unless the EO takes on that role as well).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The EO then, since it’s the EO that sets the parcels?
Sudane Erato: the Treasurer merely collects $$ and disburses $$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Pel…
Sudane Erato: need to know is not the same as “be responsible to publish”
Pelanor Eldrich: Right. EO works for me.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel are you offering that as an amendment?
Ashcroft Burnham: We probably need to define more precisely the administrative functions of our various offices.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: EO?
Pelanor Eldrich: Estate Owner.
Moon Adamant: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and branches of government ? but that’s another story, and definitely not on this meeting’s agenda 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Only if considered friendly by RA and GM.
Sudane Erato: obviously fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: Yes from me anyway.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote?
Pelanor Eldrich: I should say, RA and EO.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: For the record…
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: (same thing atm).
Claude Desmoulins: This is on the bill as amended.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Moon?
Ashcroft Burnham: What are the amendments, exactly?
Claude Desmoulins: To drop the ” and the identities of the CDS parcels they own” and change name to avatar name.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And instead of “the treasurer shall make…” it’ll be “The Estate Owner shall make….”
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Maybe we shoudl have an “as amended” notecard to vote on?
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Claude Desmoulins: I vote Aye
Ashcroft Burnham: Or rather, *you* should have an “as amended” notecard to vote on 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye always vote last.
Pelanor Eldrich: Aye
Ashcroft Burnham: :-p
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have traditions to uphold, Pel 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Next Justice’s bill . Remember please RA first.
Ashcroft Burnham: Point of order…
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Why is Justice’s bill being discussed separately from Moon’s bill, rather than there being a general discussion about which is preferable?
Ashcroft Burnham: In other words, can’t they both be taken as a single agenda item?
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I’d like to make a friendly amendment to my own bill – which will no dobut open up a general discussion
Justice Soothsayer: *doubt
Moon Adamant: well, the CSDF will drop our proposal in favour of Justice’s wording
Claude Desmoulins: So back to Justice.
Jon Seattle: agrees with Moon
Justice Soothsayer: Ashcroft has, believe it or not, actually convinced me of something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “back to justice” is really appropriate 🙂
Moon Adamant: which is more detailed
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: 😮
Justice Soothsayer: I don’t believe we can “suspend” the Code of Procedures without offering an alternative
Justice Soothsayer: so I have drafted an alternativ , which I will now offer
Justice Soothsayer: dropping it on all present as a notecard, 1 sec
Moon Adamant: thanks Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you.
Claude Desmoulins: Comments from RA? Take a moment to digest 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, why has this not been opened for discussion on the forums?
Justice Soothsayer: let me explain very briefly
Claude Desmoulins: Ash please.
Justice Soothsayer: we all know there are a lot of concerns about the judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: There are *vast* implications of having a procedure this vague that need to be considered at *very* great length.
Justice Soothsayer: one of mine is that Ash’s code has “vast concerns too”, but it will be in force unless we offer something elese
Diderot Mirabeau: he he I like it .. I’m able to understand it within two minutes
Justice Soothsayer: this will allow the Judge to establish whatever procedures are needed in each case, so long as the parties agree
Justice Soothsayer: and if they dont agree, the SC can amend anything unreasonable
Justice Soothsayer: it is a simpler alternative, and allow time for us (and public comment) on any other proposed amendments before they go into effect
Justice Soothsayer: Now, I know that Ash published the code because he was under the gun from the SC (found that out yesterday when Gwyn posted the meeting notes)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn whistles innocently
Justice Soothsayer: so I cant real y fault him for not issuing it first in draft form – that’s why I am providing this to you now without first posting a draft on the forums
Justice Soothsayer: only fully convinced of this yesterday after giving Ash[s posts (and others) a lot of thought
Justice Soothsayer: but this will allow the judiciary to go forward while we take public comment on whether we should ammend
Justice Soothsayer: or repeal the Judiciary Act
Pelanor Eldrich: Or do nothing.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I do need one of the Euro members to offer specific Euro friendly times for the public hearings
Jon Seattle: Yes, or that.
Justice Soothsayer: (I never say “whether or not”, as the “or not” is implied).
Claude Desmoulins: Other from members of the RA?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, generally Euro friendly hours span 1 PM SLT to 4 PM SLT
Justice Soothsayer: so that i;ll accept as a friendly amendment – even a euro friendly amendment
Moon Adamant: that corresponds to 9 PM -midnight in GMT, and 10 PM -1 AM for CET

Jon Seattle: I think that this bill is very much in the spirit of Moon’s proposal concerning comittees and public participation
Ranma Tardis: ah what about north american friendly?
Jon Seattle: it allows us to open up the process to the citizens.
Justice Soothsayer: 3 – 10 pm SLT, i said, for US mainland friendly
Ranma Tardis: they said euro friendly
Flyingroc Chung: “he Special Commission shall take public testimony regarding the Judiciary Act, judicial qualifications, and the Code of Procedure in at least two hearings to be scheduled by the co-chairs between (a) :00 SLT and :00 SLT (Euro-friendly) and (b) 3:00 SLT and 10:00 pm SLT (US mainland friendly). ”
Jon Seattle: Ah, Ranma, there is one of each.
Ranma Tardis: translate 1-3pm gmt
Sudane Erato: thx FR
Justice Soothsayer: Monn had a great idea, to get comments from folks beyond the forums
Justice Soothsayer: which is the heart of this bill
Moon Adamant: Ranma, i said too teh SLT hours above
Moon Adamant: but again, 1 PM – 4PM SLT
Claude Desmoulins: Comments from the floor?
Moon Adamant: SLT = GMT+8
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, a number.
Ashcroft Burnham: In backwards order…
Ranma Tardis: nobody is perfect
Diderot Mirabeau: well 4PM for some is hardly friendly if it’s on a weekday .. but that’s just a minor detail
Ashcroft Burnham: Rule 7 is unconstitutional: it conflicts with the power of the Chief Judge as set out in the consitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to have an opportunity to make a tiny comment for the RA’s appreciation, if she may.
Moon Adamant: then pull it closer to 1 PM SLT
Ashcroft Burnham: To acheive that effect, the text of the constitution would have to be amended.
Claude Desmoulins: The Dean has the floor/
Justice Soothsayer: it regulates chief judge power, not eliminates it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, my point was slightly in tune with Ash’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: technically, this bill should amend the JA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is mostly a constitutional amendment
Justice Soothsayer: that would be OK with me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even if it is “temporary” and “provisory”
Ashcroft Burnham: Rules 1-5 are not requiring of constitutioanl amendment.
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think that makes sense as well.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Ashcroft Burnham: But any consitutional amendment would prejudice and pre-empt the result of the commission of enquiry that it is this bill’s purpose to establish.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There should be a line saying “this Act temporarily suspends insert appropriate section referring to the Code of Procedures here” and should be voted as a Const. amendment.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, that doesn’t make any sense, either I’m afriad: one can only amend the constitution by specifying what text will be inserted and what removed
Claude Desmoulins: Justice will you tak that as friendly.?
Ashcroft Burnham: There can’t be two conflicting bits of the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well it could be a separate bill just for that bit, if you prefer, and the “Special Commission Bill” could be just a law.
Justice Soothsayer: yes, i’ll accept Gwyns as friendly
Ashcroft Burnham: That then radically changes the ambit of the bill.
Ashcroft Burnham: Instead of “let’s have a commission of enquiry to see whether to amend the judiciary act”, it’s “let’s have a commission of enquiry and amend the judiciary act anyway”.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, why do you say that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The scope of the bill is twofold. One is creating a Comission, which is pure legislature. The other, however, changes a right established constitutionally ? the way a Coded of procedures (temporary or not) is established.
Justice Soothsayer: “lets have a commission to see if further amendent is needed” is more accurate
Ashcroft Burnham: Because Rule 7 conflicts with the present constitution, as inserted by the Judiciary Act.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, that’s not reasonable: why should the commission not look at whether *any* amendment is needed?
Moon Adamant: i have a procedural question then?
Justice Soothsayer: How about (“To the extent anything in this bill conflicts withthe Constitution, a vote of 4 or more members shall be construed as amending the constitution in favour of this Act”)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the whole seven rules, simply by being introduced by the RA, are inconstitutional. So an amendment to allow the RA to introduce them is required.
Ashcroft Burnham: Rule 6 also conflicts with the constitution, since it provies (deliberately) only limited grounds on which decisions can be appealed to the SC.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, rules 1-5 may be passed without amendment.
Patroklus Murakami: ash, the RA is entitled to do *both*. it can make changes it feels are essential now i.e. the code of procedure and nd establisha a commission of enquiry
Ashcroft Burnham: And rule 6 could if it was amended to be clear that appeals may only be heard on grounds specified by the constitution.
Ashcroft Burnham: It is entitled to, but the question is whether it ought to.
Ashcroft Burnham: There are no compelling reasons for making any changes in advance of a commission of enquiry.
Diderot Mirabeau: I think that has been the question ever since the agenda item was opened
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sorry, I was unclear, Ash. What I mean is: on this bill, it is stated: “6. The Code of Procedure issued on December 5, 2006 is hereby replaced with the following: ”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is *currently* not possible, constitutionally.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it needs an amendment,.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, can I ask: do you see the function of the commission of enquiry as something that monitors how the judiciary works in practice over time, and makes recommendations on that basis, or as a means of seeing how many people agree with Beathan righ tnow?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. on the relevant section where the Code of Procedures is mentioned as being done by the Board of Judges, it should be repealed
Claude Desmoulins: What we’re replacing is Vii,4,a
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s a loaded question
Ashcroft Burnham: How so?
Ashcroft Burnham: What would be the unloaded version?
Diderot Mirabeau: there are other alternatives
Ashcroft Burnham: Such as what?
Justice Soothsayer: The scope of the commission is not limited to Beathan’s position
Diderot Mirabeau: the alterantive to monitoring the judiciary as it works is not necessarily seeing how many people agree with Beathan
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ty, Claude, that would be appropriate to mention.
Justice Soothsayer: The commission should entertain comments about everyone’s view of the judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, do you see value in a commission whose function is to see how the judiciary actually works in practice?
Moon Adamant: Ashcrpoft, i do not understand that question
Ashcroft Burnham: In other words, do you believe that it is better that the commission’s reports are based on experience or gueswork?
Diderot Mirabeau: the text of the bill says the purpose is to clarify the causes of possible resentment in the population
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, Justice’s version gives the commission one week to report. That is inadequate time for the commission to see how the judiciary is functionin.
Ashcroft Burnham: g.
Ashcroft Burnham: Also, as to the procedures, the current code of procedure is based on my original forum posts as to how procedure should work.
Justice Soothsayer: we seem to be digressing, claude
Moon Adamant: Ashcroft, though the time is short
Justice Soothsayer: let’s focus first on gwyn’s constitutional question
Ashcroft Burnham: There were no comments on that at the time, so it is rather unfair that I am now being accused of inadequate public consultation on them.
Moon Adamant: teh commission can try to reach conslusions in same time, if everyone participating on it engages in constructive discussion
Ashcroft Burnham: As long as we get back to a proper, thorough discussion of the question of time, and whether the commission ought see the judiciary in practice.
Moon Adamant: that is why the commission is chaired, to assure that the discussion is focused
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Justice, to be honest, I would also need some time to digest the implications of rules 6 and 7, and present them for discussion with the members of the SC ? I can’t comment on these now,
Jon Seattle: Lets get back to the constitutional issue please.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, the point that I was making was that the commission’s conclusions will be *better* conclusions if they are based on seeing the judiciary in operation, rather than guessing how it will work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but in any case, there has to be a constitutional amendment simply to allow these rules to be in effect.
Claude Desmoulins: OK #7 in the proposed code would replace VII,4,a except this code becomes the code of procedure
Diderot Mirabeau: the purpose of the commission is to get better in touch with the constituents not to perform some scientifc study of the workings of the 95-page code
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s unclear – would this code then become part of the constituiton!?
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, why not?
Diderot Mirabeau: read the text as proposed
Ashcroft Burnham: Why should the purpose of the commission not be to see how the judiciary works in practice?
Patroklus Murakami: VII, 4, a refers to the code of ethics, not the code of procedure
Diderot Mirabeau: “The RA concludes that it is appropriate to seek public input”
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m questioning whether that’s the only worthwhile function of the commission.
Justice Soothsayer: So, PCA: “The constitution is amended so that the RA may amend any Code of Procedure established by the Judiciayr” – would that do it, gwyn?
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll try to find the right bit. (i’m working from the wiki version)
Ashcroft Burnham: Why should the public input be based on what people guess that the judiciary will be like, rather than what it really turns out to be like?
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, that’s already the position: see the heirachy of sources of law.
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, you are free to raise that point with the Commission
Moon Adamant: Ashcroft. it seems to us – and i think Justice agrees – that there is at moment a vagueness that results in different interpretations that engage in dispute
Ashcroft Burnham: What the RA mustn’t do is alter the powers of the Chief Judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: What do you mean, Moon?
Diderot Mirabeau: it’s for less than one week .. get over it
Ashcroft Burnham: (Except by constitutioanl amendment)
Diderot Mirabeau: this issue concerns the credibility of the new institution in the population .. a concern that should be at the heart of every judiciary official
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice ? yes, just make the reference to the section & article that Claude mentioned a bit ago.
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, that’s hardly appropriate language or attidue.
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, you’re not engaging with the substantive point.
Ashcroft Burnham: What is the *reason* that you think that it is not better for a commission to report on how the judiciary is functioning in practice?
Justice Soothsayer: New section 7 for the Bill: “To the extent anything herein conflicts with the Constitution, the Constitution is hereby amended in favour of this Act”.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, that doesn’t make any sense: the constitution has to have a particular *text*. What is the new text of the constitution that you propose?
Claude Desmoulins: Soory Pat, Vii,3,b
Diderot Mirabeau: because the problem that the RA wants to address is the question if it has exercised sufficient caution with regard to getting the constituency on board for such substantive changes as proposed by the judiciary act
Ashcroft Burnham: Saying “we’ll make it work” isn’t the same as making it work.
Patroklus Murakami: ty claude 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, I’m questioning whether that is the only thing that the RA ought to be addressing.
Diderot Mirabeau: don’t worry … the evaluation of the judiciary act will come afterwards
Ashcroft Burnham: And nobody has yet answered that question.
Claude Desmoulins: Someone will have to help me find the appeal language.
Diderot Mirabeau: you can be sure of that
Ashcroft Burnham: Or explained why nobody has answered that question.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ashcroft Burnham: Can anybody provide any *genuine* reason as to why it would not be better for the commission to evaluate the operation of the judiciary in practice?
Justice Soothsayer: i don;t need the “experience” of thrusting my hand into the flame to know I would be burned – enough people have said that we should stop and reconsider before moving forward
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, that’s prejudicing the outcome.
Ashcroft Burnham: You are assuming, withotu reason, that operating the judiciary will be like thrusting your hand into a flame.
Justice Soothsayer: no, the commission could well say “go ahead, see if you will get burned” and the RA may agree
Ashcroft Burnham: What are you concerned about, Justice – whetehr we get a proper judiciary, or whether you get re-elected in January?
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, that is uncalled for
Ashcroft Burnham: *May* agree?
Sudane Erato: tsk!
Diderot Mirabeau: surely the RA exists to listen to the concerns of the people …
Sudane Erato: i agree
Ashcroft Burnham: So is you saying that operating the system that I have spent months designing will be like thrusting your hand into a flame.
Justice Soothsayer: LRA, I ask thatg Ashcroft be ruled out of order for making an ad hominem attack
Diderot Mirabeau: it is simply a question of exercising _due caution_
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, the reason that I made that point was clear: you were conflating the unpopularity (among a vocal minority) of the judiciary with the judiciary not working proeprply.
Diderot Mirabeau: as should appeal to anyone concerned with stability
Ashcroft Burnham: Stability is not achieved by pandering to a vocal minority.
Diderot Mirabeau: you’re misrepresenting the issue
Ranma Tardis: well I add my voice to it not working
Ashcroft Burnham: How so?
Moon Adamant: may i speak?
Diderot Mirabeau: you do not know if it is a vocal minority .. that is the _exact_ purpose of the commission that you are trying to sidetrack
Ashcroft Burnham: Ranma, how can you say whether it is working or not when it has not had a chance to work?
Justice Soothsayer: this is rapidly evolving into the debate that is precisely whjy we need thte Commission
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s like saying that your new car doesn’t work before you’ve had a chance to test-drive it.
Moon Adamant: everyone concerned is meant to attend the commission

Ashcroft Burnham: But these questions must be answered before deciding what sort of commission to have.
Moon Adamant: they will have exactly the same opportunity to speak
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, what will you do if the commission says “We should remove the judicary now”?
Moon Adamant: as any other person
Ranma Tardis: well it has had what 3 months and only produced a code of procedure more complex that most rl ones
Ashcroft Burnham: Ranma, I have explained why the code of procedure is apparently complex. That doesn’t mean that the system isn’t working.
Flyingroc Chung: Wouldn’t one of the purpoes of the commision to ask whether the JA should be tried before amended?
Ashcroft Burnham: Quite the contrary, the fact that it can produce such a thing, and three applicants for judicial office, mean that the system is working very well.
Ranma Tardis: how many cases have been handled?
Ashcroft Burnham: I understand that one was filed yesterday.
Moon Adamant: Ashcroft, that is justly so one of the issues in which there is dispute
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds FR and would also ask for some order, please
Ranma Tardis: are citizens waiting?
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not a fair estimate ranma
Justice Soothsayer: can we get back to the bill itself, rather than the debate that the bill is intended to manage?
Moon Adamant: indeed, order is needed
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, and this commission will delay them further.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, please.
Jon Seattle: Yes, order please.
Claude Desmoulins: OK. We have the time for the European hearing, code section 7 replacing Vii,3,b
Claude Desmoulins: It would take the rest of the meeting to locate all the appeal references which code section 6 would replace.
Ashcroft Burnham: It seems to me wholly inappropriate to have a commission on whether the constitution should be amend it, and amend it anyway: why chance the Act at all until the commission has reporteD?
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I would add further a section that provides for severability: “To the extend the SC finds any provision is unconstittutional, the constitutional part will survive”
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, what is the function of reversing now, without the commission having reported, the carefully balanced appeal provisions?
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, does the RA have the power to tell the SC what it may veto?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not since yesterday 😉
Patroklus Murakami: could i ask a question of the RA members?
Claude Desmoulins: first and foremost there aren’t superior courts to appeal to. We should use the one we have.
Claude Desmoulins: Justice then Pat
Patroklus Murakami waits for justice
Ashcroft Burnham: Anotehr point is with rule 6: if *any* decision can be appealed to the SC, including all interim decisions, litigation could become infinitely proracted.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I just want to establish the way that is most constitutional to move this Commission idea forward
Diderot Mirabeau: order!
Justice Soothsayer: If we need to adopt this as a Constitutional Amendment, so be it
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: the whole idea is that there were supposed to be superior and infierior courts of common jurisdiction.
Moon Adamant: please Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: If you think that there should be such courts, ask Publius.
Ashcroft Burnham: We have enough judicial applicants to staff those courts.
Moon Adamant: can this discussion be ordered?
Moon Adamant: i am sorry, but this is being extremely hard to follow
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, lets focus on the constitutional question first
Justice Soothsayer: Ash objects that part of this bill may be unconstitutonal
Justice Soothsayer: But if the bill is itself a constitutional amendment, it can’t be unconstitutional
Claude Desmoulins: If you want the floor, IM please.
Justice Soothsayer: True, it may create ambiguities in the Constitution, but those would be for the SC to iron out if needed.
Justice Soothsayer: Meanwhile, it would give us a functioning judiciary (right away) while the Commission does its work
Justice Soothsayer: under rules that are far less cumbersome, and give us proper time to consider more complicated procedures if Ash wants to propose them
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, part of my point that it is unreasonable to amend the constitution in a bill whose purpose it is to establish a commission whose function it is to see whether the constitution should be amended.
Justice Soothsayer: and allow the judiciary to impose whatever procedure is needed (subject to SC review as to reasonableness) for pending cases
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn then Pat
Justice Soothsayer hushes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just briefly ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC is still the only branch of government that can pronounce things to be unconstitutional or not.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash raised some questions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: regarding rules 6 and 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: he might eventually be right ? or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC will have to evaluate these.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not the place of the Chief Judge (or any citizen)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to pronounce the inconstitutionality in a formal meeting of nthe RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even my comment: “the bill is replacing a bit of the Constitution ? ie. overruling who does the Code of Procedures”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and commenting that this SHOULD be a const. amendment
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s a difference between “prononcing” unconstitutioanlity and arguing that somethign is unconstitutional. Just like a person on the street who is not a court may say “stop, thief!”.
Diderot Mirabeau hushes
Justice Soothsayer: order!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is something that the SC cannot “tell” the RA to do.Here is neither the time nor the place to discuss that, Ash ? with due respect
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t agree: the RA shouldn’t do something in the first place that the SC has to veto.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, I’m afraid. Basically, I’m pretty sure that the two rules of the new temporary procedure will need review from the SC, but we’ll have 48 hours to formally announce that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the RA’s prerrogative, Ash.
Ashcroft Burnham: And any citizen may seek to persuade the RA as to how to exercise its prerogative.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes
Diderot Mirabeau: wasn’t it Patroklu’s turn to speak?
Claude Desmoulins: Pat then Fernando
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I call the question on my bill as submitted via notecard with the friendly amendment as to eurofriendly times
Patroklus Murakami: ty claude
Jon Seattle: But citizens should not speak out of order, preferabily
Justice Soothsayer: oops, sorry, not yet, after Fernando
Patroklus Murakami: My question is about the new code of procedure being proposed.
Patroklus Murakami: Does the RA feel confident passing a new set of procedures that is has only just read?
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat makes a good point.
Patroklus Murakami: As a rule I think it is better for the RA to consider legislation more fully and get public scrutiny.
Diderot Mirabeau hushes
Patroklus Murakami: Why not pass the code separately next week instead?
Justice Soothsayer: more confident than in the one that is too long to read – which will be in effect if we do nothing
Patroklus Murakami: that is all
Ashcroft Burnham: I have been criticised for not consulting on my procedures, (even though I consulted on the substance of them as far back as August), but Justice has done exactly the same thing.
Claude Desmoulins: Fernando has the floor
Fernando Book: I think, if Justice wants, to treat all the section 6 of the bill, and not only rules 6 and 7, as a PCA.
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts from the RA here?
Flyingroc Chung: PCA?
Justice Soothsayer: Proposed Constitutional Amendment
Flyingroc Chung: ah thx
Claude Desmoulins: The question has been called
Claude Desmoulins: Adamant?
Justice Soothsayer: wait one moment, Calude
Justice Soothsayer: Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Sory
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead.
Fernando Book: And write it in a way that says something like “until the RA has taken the decisions foreseed int his bill, the Constitituion is amended that way”.
Justice Soothsayer: I agree with Fernando, Section 6 of the Bill should be adopted as a PCA
Ashcroft Burnham: Fernando, that tells us nothing about what the *text* of the consitution is.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash. If you want the floor, ask for it !
Ashcroft Burnham: Which precise passage is replaced with which precise passage?
Ashcroft Burnham: Is that a new rule?
Moon Adamant: we can vote a new rule 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I didn’t know that you had done yet.
Justice Soothsayer: This amendment could simply be tacked onto the existing Constitution, the rule of construction that most recently passed governs would apply
Ashcroft Burnham: No, the constitution can’t be incoherent.
Justice Soothsayer: hehe, it has been incoherent before!
Ashcroft Burnham: A constitutional amendment that would conflict with an existing part fo the constiution that does not expressly repeal that part of the constitution should be vetoed by the SC.
Diderot Mirabeau: can anyone speak as they please? I asked to be put on a list to speak .. but if it’s not necessary I guess I can just speak my mind now
Flyingroc Chung: “5:22 Claude Desmoulins: If you want the floor, IM please.”
Ashcroft Burnham: Sorry, I missed that.
Diderot Mirabeau: too busy typing undoubtedly
Jon Seattle: Order please
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Start with, Article Vii,3,b is stricken. As are all references to appeals form courts of common Jurisdiction
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot
Diderot Mirabeau: With regard to Patroklus’ question I’d like to say that the alternative, temporary procedure is short enough for most people – both members of the RA and the constituents – to be able to get an overview of it within the space of a few minutes .. the RA has accomplished similar feats in the past
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s all thank you
Claude Desmoulins: I think my proposed language clarifies what this amendment changes.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, as I said, I have been criticised for not seeking consultation on the codes (even though I gave an outline of the codes in my original posts in August, and even though I issued the codes now, they are done on teh basis of ongoing feedback), Justice is doing exactly the same thing. Merely because htey don’t have many words doesn’t mean that htey don’t have massive implications that need to be thought about very carefully indeed.
Ashcroft Burnham: For example, on appeals: not only is the whole balance of power between Courts of Common Jurisdiciton and the Court of Scientific Council changed, reversing one of the central pillars of the Judiciary Act, but the procedure is such that any case may be delayed indefinitely be infinite appeals on interlocutory decisions.
Ashcroft Burnham: These have *massive* implications that nobody has considered. To say “we’ve done it before” is simply not enough: either when we did it before, we were lucky, or got it horribly wrong.
Ashcroft Burnham: How many times have constituitonal amendments had to be re-amended because of errors?
Claude Desmoulins: While Ash finishes I’m pasing out what I think we have.
Ashcroft Burnham: The whole amaturish approach of the RA in this respect is deeply worrying: if we are going to amend the constitution we need to know precisely what we are removing, and precisely what we are putting in its place.
Ashcroft Burnham: Furthermore, the whole idea of replacing the codes before they have been tried undermines the work of the commission.
Ashcroft Burnham: The purpose of the commission shoudl be to see how the judiciary, as it was originally designed, works.
Ashcroft Burnham: If the judiciary doesn’t work well *because* of the codes, then the function of the commission is undermined: the opponents have won by default.
Ashcroft Burnham: The whole purpose of the Arbitration Bill was to allow those who didn’t like the judiciary to have a “simple” alternative to which they could subscribe.
Ashcroft Burnham: To allow two parrallell systems to be tested alongside each other, and the results compared.
Ashcroft Burnham: If the bill as it stands replaces the comprehensive codes with arbitration-like vagueness, then it will fail to have that effect: there will be no fair test.
Ashcroft Burnham: The urgency that Justice and others complained of in having “simpler” codes is taken away if we have arbitration: people who don’t want the fully comprehensive codes can opt for arbitration instead.
Ashcroft Burnham: Then, we can have a fair test of which system works the best.
Ashcroft Burnham: To do that, the commission will need more than a week to sit.
Ashcroft Burnham: Having just a week is woefully inadequate for it to complete its work: why was that timescale chosen?
Ashcroft Burnham: The commission should report, in detail, on how the judiciary actually is working. It should not merely be a straw poll on what other people think, but should produce its own, analytic, independent assessment.
Claude Desmoulins: Then Moon then Justice.
Ashcroft Burnham: That is the only way that the judiciary can get a fair test. Amending the constitution in a bill whose function is to establish a commission to see whether the consitution should be amended is a farce.
Patroklus Murakami hushes
Ashcroft Burnham: The proper way to go is to pass Moon’s, not Justices’s, version of the commission of enquiry bill, to enable a proper, thorough, neutral, independent, fair assessment of the operation of the judiciary, using arbitration to allay the short-term concerns of those who prefer “simplicity”.
Ashcroft Burnham: What could be fairer than that?
Claude Desmoulins: Moon, Ranma , Diderot w/ a one liner
Moon Adamant: thanks
Moon Adamant: i would like to point out that the objective here is to allow popular consultation with the commission
Moon Adamant: i will not comment the other issue now
Moon Adamant: i am afraid we are digressing from the original purpose
Claude Desmoulins: ranma
Moon Adamant: the commission should stand, and it should provide teh RA with interpreatations of points in dispute about the JA
Claude Desmoulins: sorry
Moon Adamant: lol, np 🙂
Moon Adamant: i know i am writing slowly 🙂
Moon Adamant: so should we vote on teh commission?
Ranma Tardis: I would like to say there is nothing prevent the parties from coming toughter and seeking a “out of court” settlement
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot

Diderot Mirabeau: With regard to Ashcroft’s assertion that the commission should review the working of the judiciary as proposed by the JA I’d just like to point out that we are discussing seperate issues. The purpose of the commission as I see it is to find out what it needs if anything to get the constituency confident with the JA. Then _after_ that work is done can we proceed to evaluating the effect of the JA. It would be uncautious to launch full scale the JA, treat a few citizens to its procedure and possibly alienate them irreperably as part of our “gaining experience” before we have even assured us that they are on board, thank you
Ranma Tardis: also there are court cases waiting to be settled now
Ranma Tardis: thought it was my turn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The longest one-liner ever 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: sorry can’t see typing anims
Ranma Tardis: we need a operation system of justice and not a debating club, thank you
Claude Desmoulins: Pat then Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, absolutely!
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not waiting to speak
Claude Desmoulins: Justicethen Ash
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I move we adopt Section 6 of the bill as a constitutional amendment with your additional language that “Article Vii,3,b is suspended”; then we can consider the balance of the bill establishing the commission.
Justice Soothsayer: Ash can object about incoherency in another forum
Justice Soothsayer: But the proposed code of procedures needs to be paused – with a short alternative – while the commission which we will then enact does its work.
Justice Soothsayer: After we adopt the PCA, I’ll then move the adoption of the Commission.
Justice Soothsayer: thank you, done.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash then a vote on the PCA
Ashcroft Burnham: Briefly on what Justice said, I do not see why he still proposes what he does when he has no answer whatsoever to my points about precisely why it is wrong to “pause” the code of procedure (but not his own).
Pelanor Eldrich: I want a word before the vote
Ashcroft Burnham: As to Diderot, the whole purpose of the commission is precisely to establish whether anyone other than the small band of anti-judicial extremists who despise the system, and will do come what may, will be “alienated”, so the basis of the commission’s operation cannot be predicated on something that the commission is constituted to determine.
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed, as I have pointed out before *ten percent* of our population are here *because* of our judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: It seems to be absurd in those circumstances to contend that that very same judiciary will “alientate” anyone so much that the system should be demolished (by the codes or otherwise) until the commission has reported.
Moon Adamant: may i do a short comment next?
Ashcroft Burnham: The important thing is not to prejudice the outcome of the commission. It is very worrying that Justice is persisting with his verison of the propsal despite being evidently quite incapable of addressing my points.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel was in the queue and a question has been moved.
Moon Adamant nods
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps we should go to Moon before the vote?
Claude Desmoulins: Can we squeeze pel and moon in before the PCA vote please.
Moon Adamant: Pel first, please 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Sure.
Ashcroft Burnham: Finally, I don’t see why there is any need to thave the SC as the higher court when we have the systems and resources in place to ahve appeals between different Courts of Common Jurisdiction. Indeed, on alientation, how can a system that is capable of attracting three people willing to complete lengthy judicial application questionnaires really be something in such great danger of alienating people that it should be stopped before it is tested?
Claude Desmoulins: Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Pelanor Eldrich: My frends, this is certainly the most important question ever put before the RA. It may historically be more important than SL itself. It is a international legal system within a VW.
Pelanor Eldrich: Our shared goal is citizen input.
Pelanor Eldrich: For those among you who desire simplicity, we have ADR and/or an arbitration bill.
Pelanor Eldrich: We passed this resolution uniamously 3 times without veto.
Pelanor Eldrich: I have a case filed, and I have waiting long to file it.
Pelanor Eldrich: Justice delayed is justice denied.
Pelanor Eldrich: Furthermore, to test something, one must test it. I will be filing a case to the court of scientific council as well as 2 to lower courts.
Pelanor Eldrich: I may use arbitration for one.
Pelanor Eldrich: You test drive a car by test driving a car.
Pelanor Eldrich: So I will abstain from the vote to change procdures due to conflict of interest.
Pelanor Eldrich: Furthermore, I do *not* like the idea of scribbling PCA on napkins for a vote.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hear, hear.
Pelanor Eldrich: This is the CDS, not a banana republic.
Diderot Mirabeau: (rocks, paper, scissors)
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Pelanor Eldrich: So I’ll vote down any PCA written in this meeting due to lack of consultation with the populace.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ty
Claude Desmoulins: Ash , will you respect legilstive primacy if we change the code?
Ashcroft Burnham: If the SC ratifies it.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, may I be recognized?
Claude Desmoulins: Justice.
Justice Soothsayer: The constitutional problem, as I understand it , has to do with proposed Rule 6 and 7.
Justice Soothsayer: Rule 6 deals with appeals, and I am OK if we delete it
Justice Soothsayer: Rule 7 was expressly designed to prevent a reimposition of the 95-page code by juidicial fiar while the commission does its work
Justice Soothsayer: *fiat
Justice Soothsayer: If Ash agrees to not make further changes to the rules while the commission does its job, we can delete that too.
Jon Seattle: (128 page by my count)
Justice Soothsayer: Then we could adopted the bill, minus rules 6 and 7, as legsilation and not a constitutional amendment
Justice Soothsayer: apologies for typos, but you get the gist
Ashcroft Burnham: I can’t over-ride the legislation: I can provide additional rules to supplement it providing that they do not conflict. That’s how it works in England: some procedures are legislative, and some are practice directions issued by the courts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm no, merely changing who is entitled to adopt the Code of Procedures is a const. change, I’m afraid. Unless, of course, the Chief Judge replaces his own code by the new one…
Justice Soothsayer: no, gwyn, even ash says the legislature can amend a code he announces
Justice Soothsayer: under the current constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under which provision?
Gwyneth Llewelyn reads it again
Ashcroft Burnham: That is right, provided that it does so by making specific propositions about procedural law, rather than general pronouncements about the powers of the chief judge, or providing for no procedure at all.
Ashcroft Burnham: The heirachy of sources of laws.
Justice Soothsayer: exactly
Justice Soothsayer: So if we take out Rule 6 (appeals) and Rule 7 (allowing Ash to make procedural orderds) there is no constitutional prgblem
Ashcroft Burnham: My concern is still that, if the judiciary works poorly *because* of this oversimplified procedure, the commission of enquiry’s results will be prejudiced.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, do shortcut this a bit
Justice Soothsayer: I move the adoption of my proposed bill, amended by Moons eurofriendly times, less proposed Rules 6 and 7.
Claude Desmoulins: HAs the PCA been withdrawn?
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Justice Soothsayer: As a bill, not as a PCA.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Ashcroft Burnham: What happens to cases filed under the existing rules?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote
Claude Desmoulins: Adamant
Ashcroft Burnham: Should there be transitional provisions?
Justice Soothsayer: under the rules, Ash, you can adopt judicial orders to establish what procedures you want in pending cases, with agreement of the parties
Justice Soothsayer: and without their agreement, subject to SC reversal
Moon Adamant: sorry, what are voting precisely?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, actually, that power of the SC is also unconstitutioanl.
Claude Desmoulins: Justices proposed bill less code provisions 6 and 7
Justice Soothsayer: I move the adoption of my proposed bill, amended by Moons eurofriendly times, less proposed Rules 6 and 7.
Ashcroft Burnham: It conflicts with the provision in the constitution that Courts of Common Jurisdiciton shall have inhehrent jurisdiction to govern their own procedure.
Justice Soothsayer: no, it specifically allow you to establish that procedure in pending cases

Patroklus Murakami: surely ‘minus part 6 and minus rules 6 and 7 of the code’?
Ashcroft Burnham: No, it allows the SC to over-rule the Court of Common Jurisdiction on a question of the application of procedure in an individual case.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, sorry… you see i have several notecards here
Ashcroft Burnham: That conflicts with the limitation on the grounds on which appeals may be made to the SC, and also on the section that provides that Courts of Common Jurisdiciton shall have inherent jurisdiction to govern their own procedure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is very confused as well.
Ashcroft Burnham: The SC cannot be given the power to do anything other than to allow appeals against decisions of Courts of Common Jurisdcition on the gorund that the Court has acted outside its jurisidiction as conferred by the text of the constituiton.
Ashcroft Burnham: Without amending the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Justice Soothsayer: that could be your argument if someone appeals
Ashcroft Burnham: No, that would be a reason for the SC to veto the whole bill.
Ashcroft Burnham: And for the RA not to pass it in those terms.
Ashcroft Burnham: (This, by the way, is a demonstration of exactly why it is insane to have a whole bill discussed at a meeting that hasn’t been posted on the forums).
Justice Soothsayer: i worry that you will simply try to reimpose your Code, as you threatened to do on the forums
Ashcroft Burnham: Now you’re changing the subject.
Ashcroft Burnham: I said that that is what could be done if you merely “suspended” the code.
Diderot Mirabeau: this used to be possible in the past .. when our bills were simple
Ashcroft Burnham: But the RA simply does not have the power to give the Court of Scientific Council the power to allow appeals from Courts of Common Jurisdiciton except on the ground that the court has exceeded its jurisdiction as conferred by the text of thee constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot: now we try to do things properly.
Diderot Mirabeau: you confuse complex with proper
Ashcroft Burnham: You confuse simple with desirable.
Ranma Tardis: there is a motion on the floor for a vote, talking is over
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *yawn*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I’d like to second Ranma on this 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The current proposal is unconstutional.
Ashcroft Burnham: The courts are not bound by it until ratified by the SC.
Claude Desmoulins: oops
Diderot Mirabeau: seems we have 3 out of 4 SC members present
Claude Desmoulins: The vote is on Justices bill minus provisions six and seven of the code.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shh Diderot. The SC will not interfere *now*.
Flyingroc Chung: well I for one am not gonna talk about constitutionalit (or not) of this bill until the Sc meets next.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly FR.
Ashcroft Burnham: Can nobody answer my point? Does anybody have any reason to believe that the purported power of the SC here is not unconstitutional? If not, why the Dickens is anyone voting on it yet?
Diderot Mirabeau: in a month .. when the commissions work is over?
Moon Adamant: Claude: one clarification – we are voting then 1 to 5?
Diderot Mirabeau: what we are discussing relates to a time frame of one week …
Ashcroft Burnham: Aren’t there time limits for vetos, thoguh?
Ashcroft Burnham: Remember, the Courts of Common Jurisdiction aren’t bound by any legislative act *until* it’s been ratified.
Flyingroc Chung: But we shoudl note that when Ash says something “is unconstitutional,” this may not be indicative of the SC’s opinion.
Jon Seattle: Is the court attempting to steer the legislature?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Ash ? time limits for flagging a bill as “pending review”. If the time limit is expired, the bill becomes law.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, I see.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon: I’m pointing out the law.
Ashcroft Burnham: Unless and until this bill is ratified by the SC, it has no effect.
Ashcroft Burnham: (Unless the SC doesn’t flag it within the time limit, in which case it has effect after the time limit expires).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 48 hours for that 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: This is a formal request for the SC to review this bill if it is passed.
Ashcroft Burnham: On the grounds already given.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, i have the final bill in notecard form
Claude Desmoulins: Please pass back out
Justice Soothsayer: so we all know what we are voting on
Moon Adamant: ah justice, you’re a lifesaver 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I thought we dropped 6 and seven from the code?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Justice, indeed!
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyneth, will the SC meet to review this?
Flyingroc Chung: oh god
Justice Soothsayer: oops, droppoing wrong version, 1 min
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, Ash, it’s not the time now to discuss that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be interfering with the legislative procedures.
Ashcroft Burnham: Surely one can discuss whether the SC will discuss it, if not the outcome of the discussion?
Claude Desmoulins: Do we have the right version yet?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One certainly can conjecture that, but the SC will refrain to comment.
Claude Desmoulins: OK vote.
Moon Adamant: er… is this the right version?
Ranma Tardis: it is a time to vote, the ra was rude to me by interupting me but some here get to speal forever
Patroklus Murakami: could i see the notecard?
Ranma Tardis: speak
Claude Desmoulins: Yes this is the right version.
Justice Soothsayer: going around clockwise, pat
Jon Seattle: I want to make sure. Does this include the replacement procedures?
Patroklus Murakami: ty justice 🙂 Got it now
Moon Adamant: brb
Justice Soothsayer: It has the proposed rules, less Rule 6 and 7
Jon Seattle nds
Jon Seattle nods
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote then.
Claude Desmoulins: Adamant
Jon Seattle: She is away for a moment.

Moon Adamant: back
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: We’re voting.
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: (sorry, getting tissues .)
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Pel are you still abstaining.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve been here way too long. I appoint justice as the DPU co chair
Pelanor Eldrich: Abstain
Claude Desmoulins: Whoever co chairs from CSDF please contact him to schedule hearings,
Jon Seattle: I appoing Moon Adamant as the CSDF co-chair
Justice Soothsayer: delighted to have Moon as cochair
Jon Seattle: *appoint
Claude Desmoulins: Could the co chairs send a forum post ASAP inviting participation.
Moon Adamant: same here, Justice 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: will do
Claude Desmoulins: There are also issues of the AC and Sc (per last night’s meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: Per RA procedures I’m appointing similar committees to address the other branches.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel will be the DPU chair for AC, and I’ll be DPU chair for SC. …
Patroklus Murakami: threee commissions of inquiry? simultaneously?
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like those committees to report priorto the Dec 23 meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: We ought to at least get the ball rolling.
Claude Desmoulins: I now move adjournment.
Diderot Mirabeau is disappointed that we didn’t get to the confirmation
Jon Seattle: second
Claude Desmoulins: Any one else in favor of adjournment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is very disappointed as well, but such is life 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Justice Soothsayer: 2.5 hours long enough
Ranma Tardis: I woke up at 5am for nothing?
Claude Desmoulins reminds the distinguished members of the SC that the RA has 30 days by statute.
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 6:36 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 11, 2006

Meeting on 2006-12-11
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Jon Seattle: Ah, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Fernando 🙂
Multi Gadget v1.49.3 by Timeless Prototype
Claude Desmoulins: We have a quorum
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Fernando Book: Afk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon says that she’ll be here…
Jon Seattle: Yes, just a moment,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see her 🙂 hehe welcome Moonie
Moon Adamant: hello everyone, sorry… work meeting
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Moon Adamant hugs Jon 🙂
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer bows to Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Claude & Justice 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: No sign of Pel.
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: I know he was aware of the meeting.
Justice Soothsayer: well, he did abstain the first time around
Ranma Tardis: got a short email from him
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Ranma Tardis: he is not on sl or gmail
Claude Desmoulins: Well, how long shall we wait?
Justice Soothsayer: 4:10 should be fine
Claude Desmoulins: It’s 4:11
Justice Soothsayer: procedurally, Claude, I think the question is “shall we reconsider our vote from yesterday”. A vote yes means we should reconsider, and vote No means that our previous decisions stands.
Moon Adamant: well, i didn’t actually vote… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a motion to that effect on the floor?
Justice Soothsayer: I think I moved that yesterday, to allow Moon further time.
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a second?
Justice Soothsayer: then we adjourned before we could consider that motion
Claude Desmoulins: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the motion to reconsider then.
Justice Soothsayer: Little to reconsider, I think. Moon, if you think yesterday’s 3-0 vote was OK, just vote “no” on the motion to reconsider. If, OTOH, you don’t agree with yesterday’s vote, feel free to vote Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: I call the question on the motion to reconsider then.
Claude Desmoulins: Moon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clarification
Claude Desmoulins: Yes Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is getting way too complex ? “Do you vote to consider that the vote you did propose on the motion that was not approved yesterday is considered to be not discussed today? Yes or no?” 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol
Justice Soothsayer: yes, up is down and down is up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what was approved yesterday? What was the motion? What is being voted now?
Moon Adamant: 😀
Justice Soothsayer: The amended bill (deleting what the SC thought was unconstitutional) was approved on a 3-0 vote yesterday.
Claude Desmoulins: yesterday was approved the commission bill with the SC’s suggested change.
Moon Adamant: ok Claude
Claude Desmoulins: We are now voting on whether to reconsider that decision.
Justice Soothsayer: The question is simple – do we have “second thoughts” about what we did yesterday?
Moon Adamant: ah, but that doesn’t apply to me
Moon Adamant: as i didn’t vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Yes brings the issue back up right here.No means the commision and the substitute code of procedure goes forward
Justice Soothsayer: no, this gives you a second chance to vote, Moon.
Moon Adamant: ok, shall i vote then?
Moon Adamant waits for Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But first, the vote on the floor is: “does the RA have second thoughts on what was approved yesterday? Yes or No?”
Jon Seattle: I guess the question to Moon is, does she have second thoughts about what the rest of us did yesterday 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
Claude Desmoulins: If you have second thoughts, vote yes.
Justice Soothsayer: zacly, Gwyn, that’s what a motion to reconsider is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *finally* understood. Sorry for being slow.
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone understand?
Jon Seattle: nods
Justice Soothsayer thumbs thru Roberts Rules
Claude Desmoulins: The question has been called on the motion to reconsider.
Moon Adamant: ok…
Moon Adamant: i think i got it… i think…
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer remembers John Kerry said “I voted for it before I voted against it”
Moon Adamant: ok hmmm
Moon Adamant: i vote nay, since i think that my colleagues here do not need to reconsider their vote
Justice Soothsayer: i vote nay as well, on the same grounds
Jon Seattle: votes no
Claude Desmoulins: I voteno
Moon Adamant: /m is glad she got it right 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Next regular meeting will be at 4 am Sat. Here.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, just so the record is clear, that means that our passage of the amended bill yesterday stands, right?
Claude Desmoulins: I think we may need the space.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s what I understand
Moon Adamant: (even though i haven’t voted after all)
Justice Soothsayer: no, Moon, you are on record now that you agree with the majority.
Claude Desmoulins: Agenda deadline is Thursday midnight.
Justice Soothsayer: even if we are a vocal majority, heh.
Claude Desmoulins: The Commission report will be our big item, but I hope to consider the SC nominations.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, has the CSDF chosen a co chair for the SC commission?
Jon Seattle: We are still working on it I am afraid.
Jon Seattle: Unfortunatly some of our members are actually on the SC, I am looking for someone who is not.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Claude Desmoulins: OK. I hope we can move forward soon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, this was a short meeting then 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
Moon Adamant: Justice
Justice Soothsayer: three cheers
Justice Soothsayer: Moon?
Moon Adamant: shall we proceed then?
Justice Soothsayer: I think we should wait for the SC meeting
Claude Desmoulins: IF you’ll excuse me, it’s still dinner hour here. so I’ll disappear presently.
Moon Adamant: yes, sorry
Justice Soothsayer: if the SC approves yesterday’s bill, we can go ahead and immediately announce the Commission schedule
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Claude ? enjoy your dinner in peace 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn remember to click the recorder
Justice Soothsayer: with Gwyn’s forum help, of course
Jon Seattle: Thanks everyone.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, good point, thank you
Claude Desmoulins: Dexter also, please.
Justice Soothsayer: We’ll wait to see if SC meeting beats our record of 27 minutes.
Justice Soothsayer: 11 waiting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: sorry about being late 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one yesterday was just 10 minutes, I believe?
Claude Desmoulins: Dexter, please click the recorder to indicate consent to the transcript.
Dexter Leopold has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks
The meeting closed at 16:30 Linden time.

Permalink.

5th RA – 3 (5)

RA meeting: December 16, 2006

Meeting on 2006-12-16
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ashcroft Burnham: Notecards are slow to load.
Claude Desmoulins: Any sugn of Pel?
Claude Desmoulins: *sign
Claude Desmoulins: I seem to be spontaneously standing
Ashcroft Burnham: I can’t get the number of seats bill notecard to load.
Jon Seattle: Yes, I am still waiting for it..
Moon Adamant: claude, you are sitting down
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: For the moment anyway.
Claude Desmoulins: Le’s try to start.
Moon Adamant: and there has been a lot of issues with asset and notecards
Ashcroft Burnham: At last.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the recorder.
Claude Desmoulins: And now I’m standing again 🙁
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: you aren’t fully rezzed yet, that’s why
Moon Adamant: try now
Jon Seattle: Ah, claude, parts of your clothing are still rezzing
Claude Desmoulins: First thing is SC nominations.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Justice Soothsayer: I am confident that Fernando and Pat will make excellent SC members, even though I find myself in disagreement on occasion with both.
Moon Adamant: i am sure both are a great addition to SC
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree
Moon Adamant: and i am confident they will do an excellent work there
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of approving the nominations….
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next the seats bill.
Justice Soothsayer: One small amendment to the proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi, sorry.
Claude Desmoulins listens
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, my intent in putting in the dates was to suggest that…
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: the date for determining RA seats be 28 days before polls open, or the date the polls open, whichever generates the most RA seats.
Justice Soothsayer: I put in the specific dates, but I may have gotten those wrong.
Jon Seattle: Ah, and I think we need to specify which election
Jon Seattle: or perhaps just the days
Claude Desmoulins: Two items.
Justice Soothsayer: it does say for the Fifth RA.
Justice Soothsayer: so that specifies the election.
Jon Seattle: Okay
Claude Desmoulins: I think this is the fifth RA.
Moon Adamant: yes, i think this is the 5th too
Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
Justice Soothsayer is no math major
Moon Adamant: at least, the bills have been numbered 5
Justice Soothsayer: so it should read “Sixth RA”
Ashcroft Burnham: No, this is the fourth, isn’t it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes hmm
Moon Adamant: but i am not sure if you are setting any kind of prior time as 1
Ashcroft Burnham: Number 5 is the fourth…
Claude Desmoulins: For some reason…
Ashcroft Burnham: We don’t start with 0 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ….the provisional govt is counted as RA 1
Moon Adamant: ah, that was my doubt
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Ashcroft Burnham: Oh, so it seems that we *did* start with a 0…?
Fernando Book: Hi all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning…. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Pointtwo is, do we want to do this as a one shot, or do we want to amend to generalize?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Fernando, good morning!
Moon Adamant: hi fernando 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Fernando
Claude Desmoulins: And the current bill should read January 13, 2007.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Might I suggest a substitute.
Justice Soothsayer: ok
Fernando Book has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: The number of saets in the RA shall be based upon the number of citizens as of the deadline for voting in the election that will elect that RA (per article ??) or the number of citizens as of the date the polls open in the aforementioned election, whichever is greater.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: IMing Jega now…
Ashcroft Burnham: She didn’t respond to mine…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agh. Ah well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* (can I make a brief comment on that?)
Claude Desmoulins: Article V sec 2 btw.
Claude Desmoulins: Sure Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There was something a bit worrying related to the faction lists,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the number of seats is not fixed *before* the campaigning begins (ie. about the time of the census)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because the factions have to know ow many seats they need to fill *before*.
Fernando Book nods
Claude Desmoulins: Not necessarily. For example….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. “after the fact”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is a mere technicality, FR says that he can calculate the rankings no matter the number of seats…
Claude Desmoulins: If the CSDF had scored an electoral land slide they would have needed to fill four seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. Aye.
Claude Desmoulins: So knowing the number of seats ahead of time doesn’t absolutely ensure how many a faction would need to fill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I see your point. Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’l withdraw my comment then. Yes, technically you’re right.
Ashcroft Burnham: Is there any other way to be right? 😉
Justice Soothsayer: technically, no. hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmpf 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: So we have a substitute on the floor.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to generalize or no.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “generalise” as in: make it the default rule from now on?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll withdraw mine in favor of Claude’s substitute.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s just a bill. Justice’s version forces the next RA to revisit.
Claude Desmoulins: Mine lets them if they wish 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion?
Moon Adamant: none
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill as substituted?…
Moon Adamant: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon?
Moon Adamant: not sure if jon has crashed
Jon Seattle: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Note for the record that all this does is change the number of seats if the population crosses a threshhold between the voting deadline and the openng of the election
Jon Seattle: network crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, welcome back.
Claude Desmoulins: Ouch
Moon Adamant: wb :))
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Jon Seattle: Thanks 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: One point of information.
Claude Desmoulins: Before we plunge into Judiciary.
Moon Adamant: btw, everyone… i will have to leave in 30 minutes
Claude Desmoulins: Ashcroft notes that two applicants have been qualified,
Ashcroft Burnham: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hooray 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The RA has the power, until a PJSP is elected, to consider those applicants.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and congratulations!
Claude Desmoulins: But…
Claude Desmoulins looks at the dean
Claude Desmoulins: …
Ashcroft Burnham: (Unfortunately, a third candidate was unable to submit his form in time because of a major computer failure)
Claude Desmoulins: …we have to know who they are.
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Ash, as said, they can apply later, and give the PJSP (or the RA) the possibility to appoint them in a later stage.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *at
Claude Desmoulins: I leave it to her to decide how to disseminate the information to this body.
Claude Desmoulins: True
Claude Desmoulins will ask Ash a question when he returns.
Justice Soothsayer: Gwyn gets out the rock paper scissors device?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: While we wait for Ash…
Ashcroft Burnham: Bakc 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Justice has distibuted written comments on the Judiciary commission process.
Claude Desmoulins: Ash,
Justice Soothsayer: still distributing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no, Jega, I don’t see you.
Ashcroft Burnham: I see you, Jega, downstairs in the courtroom.
Moon Adamant: jega, we don’t see you… you may have crashed or be ghosted – try and relog
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you for hte notecard.
Claude Desmoulins: How soon might there be another application round which would allow our third applicant to get his/her stuff in?
Justice Soothsayer: thought it would save time to just ask that therese comments be included in the transcript rather than reading them into the record.
Justice Soothsayer: *these
Ashcroft Burnham reads the notecard
Moon Adamant: Jega, we see you after all
Moon Adamant: to leave that place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah you’re at the courtroom, Jega, we’re one floor above you!
Moon Adamant: sit outside of it, then stand up again
Claude Desmoulins: Does the CSDF co-chair have comments?
Ashcroft Burnham: I strongly disagree with this part: “: the RA has to decide if the vision for the judiciary that Ashcroft is putting in motion is the kind of judiciary we want. I think the answer is no ? in part.”.
Ashcroft Burnham: We already decided in principle what sort of judiciary to have.
Justice Soothsayer: no surprise there!
Ashcroft Burnham: No single individual has changed her or his opinions on that question.
Moon Adamant: yes ashcroft
Ashcroft Burnham: We compromised before and reached a principled answer on the principled questions.
Moon Adamant: and that is surely no ground for starting erecting a coompromise
Ashcroft Burnham: The commission results most certainly do not show any reason to change that principled position.
Moon Adamant: that is your opinion, surely
Ashcroft Burnham: The commission results, in and of themselves, simply do not contain that information.
Justice Soothsayer: point of order – I think Moon was recognized for her comments first.
Moon Adamant: my opinion resides more in being concerned about people being concerned
Ashcroft Burnham: There are some members of the commission who disagree with the principles, and some who agree with it.
Ashcroft Burnham: Those people have the same views on the principles of the matter as they always had.
Moon Adamant: and that concern is real, independtly of anyone’s personal wishes on thsi question
Ashcroft Burnham: The point is, there’ll always be people who don’t like the principles.
Ashcroft Burnham: There’ll never be consensus on that, come what may.
Moon Adamant: it concerns directly 25% of our community
Ashcroft Burnham: Once we’ve picked our principles, we need to stick to them. If there are problems with the operation, that’s another matter.
Moon Adamant: no, i agree that there will never be consensus
Moon Adamant: but i think that resides more in unwillingness to compromise
Ashcroft Burnham: And there’ll never be a significantly greater number of people agreeing with the alternative possible principles than the principles that we already chose.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, there’s no reason to change the principles that underlie our judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: The question of whether to change the details is another matter.
Moon Adamant: but this is my personal opinion, and should not be seen as the resulst of the commission
Moon Adamant: for those, i believe Justice has resumed them in his note with a lot of clarity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think that you’ve just stated an universal principle: no matter how much things are changed, there will be *always* someone disagreeing. No “groupthink” here at the CDS 🙂 The issue is about “agreeing more” or “agreeing less”, not absolute consensus, which is utopian at this stage.
Ashcroft Burnham: Whilst there is much that is clear in Justice’s note, there is also much that is specific to his personal opinion and not anything that can be taken as a finding of the commission.

Jon Seattle: Ahcroft, we are not a place in RL, people must join our community voluntarally. A kind, at some level, of acceptance is needed to keep out community from splintering. It seems to me that we now run that risk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice uses the words: “I think …”
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, of course.
Ashcroft Burnham: But the point is that there’ll never be more acceptance for the other proposed principles than there is for this one.
Claude Desmoulins: In terms of official tallies and such, there’s the handy chart.
Ashcroft Burnham: There were as many people vehamently opposed to change as there were in favour of it.
Ashcroft Burnham: If not more.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unquestionably so.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, all that events of the last few months tells us is that there’ll always be people who disagree with things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do anything.
Jon Seattle: Ah, then this may not be the time to force those who may not agree with you.
Ashcroft Burnham: If we’ve already reached a compromise on those disagreements, as we have, it is wholly wrong for one side in the disagreement to secure an advantage merely by continuing to shout loudly about the compromise not being to their liking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn also agrees with Jon. Just because there “are always people disagreeing” it doesn’t follow that “things have to be forced upon everyone”
Ashcroft Burnham: It follows that there should be compromise, binding compromise, from which we do not depart.
Ashcroft Burnham: We have had that.
Claude Desmoulins: `At the moment there are two proposals floating. (now Aliasi’s) repeal amendment and Justice’s significant reform proposal.
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s a further proposal.
Moon Adamant: i believe that , even though the consensus is utopic, that there are concessions that can be made to assure a higher average level of agreement
Justice Soothsayer: Ashcroft also made a proposal in the commission discussions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Moon.
Justice Soothsayer: commonly known as “Ash 3”
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, that doesn’t make for good government.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ashcroft Burnham: One can’t change a compromise every few months because an influx of citizens slightly changes the balance of who agrees with what.
Moon Adamant: ashcroft, fyi i have participated irl government
Ashcroft Burnham: And I don’t agree as a matter of principle that anything but small changes are needed to make any significant changes to the number of people who agree with things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but the whole purpose of democracy is to change things to adapt to the people living under it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a summary of “Ash 3” available?
Moon Adamant: kindly do not cathecize me on that
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, no, Gwyn: the purpose of democracy is to be a check on the power of government to stop it from abusing its powers.
Fernando Book: afk
Ashcroft Burnham: Those in government should do what they believe is right, rather than unthinkingly deferring to popular opinion (which is never singular in any event).
Justice Soothsayer: yes, Ash 3 is posted on the forums, and I’ll also give you a notecard
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, what does “cathecize” mean?
Moon Adamant: i mean that i know – from rl experience – that politics is negotiation and compromise
Ashcroft Burnham: I agree. We already had the negotiation and compromise.
Ashcroft Burnham: We negotiated, and compromised, and reached a binding agreement.
Claude Desmoulins: To take throught a proces of catechism I believe.
Claude Desmoulins: *through
Ashcroft Burnham: It was approved thrice, unaniously, by this very body.
Ashcroft Burnham: Unanimously, even.
Justice Soothsayer: It seems that Ashcroft is done negotiating, but this is a decision for the RA to make, and we pretty clearly are not done negotiating and compromising.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does that mean that the citizens have no power left to criticise that decision?
Justice Soothsayer: in light of public response to the JA.
Ashcroft Burnham: Now, it seems, one of the sides of the original debate wants unilaterally to improve its position on the compromise.
Moon Adamant: brb
Jon Seattle: Ahcroft, sometimes we just have to learn from experience and adapt.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like a moment.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, experience has told us nothing about the underlying principles of the compromise.
Ashcroft Burnham listens to Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens to Claude.
Justice Soothsayer: want the soapbox back, Claude?
Jon Seattle: A bill is not a contract with no means for re-negotiation.
Moon Adamant listens to Claude
Jon Seattle listens too
Claude Desmoulins: First, because of the unqiue situation of SL with people’s ability to walk away , average agreement matters here in a way it doesn’t in RL.
Claude Desmoulins: Second…
Claude Desmoulins: The first question for us to answer is…
Claude Desmoulins: ….to what extent do we (the RA) believ the problems are procedural vs. structural.
Claude Desmoulins: *believe
Claude Desmoulins: ie.,,,
Jega Delgado: is there anyone hearing me ?
Claude Desmoulins: .can we fix what’s wrong via our legislative authority over the procedure, or need we make structural alterations in the jusiciary.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Claude Desmoulins: *judiciary
Moon Adamant: i must go in a few minutes
Ashcroft Burnham: (1) We already decided what sort of judiciary to have as a matter of principle. Nothing has happened to change what sort of judiciary we ought to have as a matter of principle. (2) We will not know whether, as a matter of practice, our judiciary is working or not until we try it (by which I mean, give it a chance to hear a significant number of cases over a significant amount of time); and (3)…

Jon Seattle: Right now I think that many of the problems are procedural, however, the fact that we have these issues means that we should adjust the structure so we can avoid them in the future.
Ashcroft Burnham: …there have been some concerns about the fact of one single person having the power of the whole of the Board of the Judiciary Commission. This Assembly can fix that right now without any constituitonal amendments at all by appointing the two new judges that I have qualified. Gwyn will tell you who they are.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, that assumes that adjusting the structre is the only way of avoiding them in the future.
Ashcroft Burnham: There is no reason to believe that.
Ashcroft Burnham: Furthermore, adjusting the structure can cause more problems.
Jega Delgado: Ashcroft can you see my avatar ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a short question to Ash before I leave ? you’re mentioning both applicants #1 and #2 right?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes. Both applicants were qualified.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oni Jiutai was #1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Benjamin Noble was #2
Ashcroft Burnham: Congratulations to Oni and Benjamin 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, congratulations 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Justice Soothsayer: Indeed
Moon Adamant: indeed, congrats
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ? both Moon and I need to go….
Moon Adamant: yes, i must
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, cheerio…
Ashcroft Burnham: Thank you for the work on the commission.
Claude Desmoulins: Might I suggest that those with change proposals putthem forward this week.
Ashcroft Burnham: But maybe appoint the judges before you go?
Claude Desmoulins: *put them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I think that I’ve managed to give Jega Delgado a landmark to either the Help Island or the New Citizens Inc. help area hehe)
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that appointing the Judges would be a good idea 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham agrees with Gwyn strongly.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we wish to appoint or wait for the PJSP
Ashcroft Burnham: I’d prefer to have the PJSP to do it, but we can’t wait.
Moon Adamant: i can stay no more than 5 minutes
Justice Soothsayer: Would the candidates exam papers be available for the RA to read?
Ashcroft Burnham: It will only take one :-0
Ashcroft Burnham: :-), even…
Ashcroft Burnham: If you like, but then we can’t do it in five minutes…
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think we would at least need that, and a little time to read them.
Ashcroft Burnham: 7 day vote on that, then?
Justice Soothsayer: These lifetime appointments need more than 5 minutes
Claude Desmoulins: Given the importance of the decision, we oughtn’t rush.
Ashcroft Burnham: I understand.
Justice Soothsayer: and the rush to judgemnet is unseemly.
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps the 7 day rule would work? Gwyn can send you the non-anonomysed applications?
Jon Seattle: I agree that we ought not rush.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you wish, I can send them to the whole of the RA, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By email or notecard ? whatever suits you best.
Justice Soothsayer: That would be very helpful.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ashcroft Burnham: Might I suggest that the RA resolves here and now not to make any radical changes to the judiciary unless, having seen it in action (by hearing a number of cases) it concludes that it is not fit for its purpose?
Moon Adamant: i would like, before i go, to make just a comment
Ashcroft Burnham: Otherwise, there’ll be political termoil from here to infinity.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’ll be difficult to continue attracting people to the system.
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, sounds like you ought to run for the RA.
Ashcroft Burnham: One person has already commented to me that he’s discouraged by all the “bickering and infighting” of the commission.
Jon Seattle: Ash, why would that be?
Moon Adamant: and thank everyone who signed in the commission for expressing their opinion
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice: I’d rather be a judge.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why would what be, Jon?
Moon Adamant: and thank also Justice for a very great commitment and work to the commission
Jon Seattle: Why political turmoil from here to infinity? How would that happen Ashcroft?
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s already happening.
Ashcroft Burnham: A huge proportion of a large proportion of our citizens’ time is being put into the commission.
Moon Adamant: you don’t say
Jon Seattle: Thanks to Moon and Justice who have had a very very difficult job.
Ashcroft Burnham: A large amount of time that could be taken, for example, writing simplified guides to procedure, is being taken arguing about things that were decided months ago.
Justice Soothsayer: thank you, Jon
Moon Adamant: ah gwyn
Moon Adamant: having problems with #1
Ashcroft Burnham: If there is no direction from the RA that there will not be a change unless and until significant problems emerge in practice, there will be no need for people to spend so much of their time arguing instead of doing productive things.
Jon Seattle: Ty Gwyn
Moon Adamant: well, the LRA has called for proposals for change
Claude Desmoulins: Moon has to leave.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My pleasure 🙂
Moon Adamant: indeed i do
Ashcroft Burnham: I disagree with that call… it will lead to instability.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll put the judge applicants on the agenda for next week.
Moon Adamant: but imust ask Gwyn to send me again #1
Justice Soothsayer: so run for the RA, Ash.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, I came to SecondLife? to be a judge, not a politician.
Moon Adamant: got it right this time, gwyn, thanks 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I am entitled to express my views and seek to persuade members of the RA to do things on principle.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll be off ? sorry about that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturday’s always a messy day, so probably I won’t see most of you today until much later.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye for now ? happy discussions 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to adjournment?
Moon Adamant: none
Moon Adamant: lol, though i am leaving 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: none

Jon Seattle: no objection
Moon Adamant: good bye everyone
Ashcroft Burnham: Can we not look at arbitration?
Moon Adamant: see you ina few hours
Justice Soothsayer: bye Moon
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned
Jon Seattle: Thanks Claude 🙂
Moon Adamant: thanks Claude .9
Jon Seattle: Bye Moon 🙂
Moon Adamant waves
The meeting closed at 5:13 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 30, 2006

Meeting on 2006-12-30
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s begin.
Claude Desmoulins: First of all, please touch the recorder to indicate consent.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
TOPGenosse Brouwer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Second, Pel, who’s moving, has requested everything go to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: Before we launch into agenda items, are there any reports?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, on CN: we are preparing the official opening
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: and we will publish a schedule and plan of it soon
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: we have a date in sight, but are waiting for confirmation from people in events
Claude Desmoulins: Do we have the overall dates yet?
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies, SL seems to be painfully slow for me…. again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, hello all 🙂 I hope you have had all a very nice holkiday 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry for interrupting)
Ashcroft Burnham: And you 🙂
Claude Desmoulins wonders if Moon has finished her report.
Moon Adamant: oh sorry
Moon Adamant: yes, we will have more info available at next session, i am sure
Claude Desmoulins: SC?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, just a short report to say two things,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one was that the CARE party got its official forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that I have so far received 8 confirmations on people willing to serve on the RA if they get elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it were 8 ? by email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (7 by email, one by IM)
Justice Soothsayer: splendid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might have lost some notecards/IMs ? they’re everything but reliable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve posted on the site & forums to ask people to send emails to me, with the grid so unstable… it’s better that way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC will probably try to meet next week, mostly to approve the internal procedures
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I guess that’s all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formally I haven’t received the “census” yet 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn winks at Sudane 😉
Sudane Erato: well, we published the list of citizens eligible to vote
Sudane Erato: FR has made that public
Sudane Erato: but I understand that we will do that again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good. I need links to that
Sudane Erato: on the eve of the election
Sudane Erato: to establish the numbers of representatives
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, indeed.
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’t think so. The only thing that cones out on election eve is a number. The list FR has already put out is the voter roll.
Claude Desmoulins: *comes
Sudane Erato: ahh… ok, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ? agreed
Sudane Erato: just the number, which may differ from the number of people in the voter roll
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else from Guild or Treasury?
Sudane Erato: well, as usual…. the financial report for the month will be done after this meeting :(… sorry about that
Sudane Erato: I can say that the monthly committed fees from CN is now better than break even
Sudane Erato: i think i announced that in the forum
Ashcroft Burnham: 😀
Sudane Erato: :)… its been quite a success
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, congratulations 😀
Moon Adamant: yay! 🙂
Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last time I checked, there were only 5 plots in NFS and 10 in CN available…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was 2 weeks ago!
Patroklus Murakami: superb news sudane:) when do i get my money back? :p
Sudane Erato: hehe… April 1, as scheduled 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We may need to start a sim design call sooner rather than later.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Judge candidates.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I have a number of questions that I’d like to ask the nominees, if they are willing to answer them
Justice Soothsayer: I’d be willing to collect questions from the rest of the RA, then send them to the candidates, who could either appear, answer via notecard or forums, or decline.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d assume we could model on previous SC approvals. We can ask/invite, but they can’t be compelled to attend/answer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, it’s probably better to let them answer by notecard, as some may find the 0400 SLT meeting times a little inconvenient 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course, if this process takes a long time, the PJSP might be in existence before it’s completed 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: they could come in person, i suppose
Justice Soothsayer: we could send the questions out by early next week
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t know what timezone that Benjamin Noble is in, for instnace, and whether this time is good for him…
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps by notecard *and* forum PM? Just to be sure…
Justice Soothsayer: makes sense, Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Justice, when do you want the questions submitted by?
Justice Soothsayer: how about by end of day Tuesday?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll email everyone my draft right away so you can add on to it.
Justice Soothsayer: does that work for all?
Claude Desmoulins: And here we are again at Judiciary 🙂
Moon Adamant: it does, thanks Justice 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We must have been great sinners in our past lives 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Patroklus Murakami: yup, karmic retribution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure we’ll emerge from it pure as saints
Gwyneth Llewelyn reserves a plot at Heaven?
Jon Seattle: Are we on the various judicial amendments?
Claude Desmoulins: Please remmber that Pel has requested seven day, so we will not vote today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so, Jon 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. Beathan’s bill is at the top of the list.
Justice Soothsayer: A word about Beathan’s first, if I may.
Jon Seattle: I would like to propose that our proposed amendment be included in this discussion as it may need to be considered with the other bills concerning the judiciary.
Justice Soothsayer: I think his claim of an emergency is a bit overblown; I’d like to see what the SC does, if anything, about his appeal on forum moderation.
Justice Soothsayer: Then we could pass a bill or amendment if necessary.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m not sure why you think that it might be necessary.
Ashcroft Burnham: As Publius explained, the existing arrangements make perfect sense.
Ashcroft Burnham: And allow for a first teir review by the SC.
Ashcroft Burnham: The Courts of Common Jurisdiction entertain what would effectively be an application for judicial review.
Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent 😉
Patroklus Murakami waits for a response to jon’s point….
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that reasons to support or not the two bills on the agenda might hinge on the constitiutuoal protections available to citizens.
Justice Soothsayer: oh, i think we should also hear about Pat’s proposal too
Jon Seattle: We are not really having a fair debate on these issues unless all options are considered.
Justice Soothsayer: I just thought Beathan’s went a little too far, too quickly.
Patroklus Murakami: especially since the point at issue is the SCs forum moderation role and status as court of final appeal
Jon Seattle: Justice — by Pat’s proposal do you mean the CSDF proposal?
Justice Soothsayer: yes, the one PAt posted on the forums as the CSDF proposal.
Ashcroft Burnham: People will notice that Beathan’s proposal is exactly the same as the “suspend and amend” that the Special Commmission rejected: the only clear thing to emerge from the SC was the disliking of that particular option.
Jon Seattle: Justice, that I posted.
Justice Soothsayer: oh, sorry, Jon. I thought Pat did it. Still early AM for me.
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, jon posted the proposal. but i think we’re all talking about the same one 🙂
Jon Seattle: Np Justice
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, Ash, I think Beathans proposal is little more than suspend and amend, and I don’t suppor tthat at this time.
Justice Soothsayer: And I do think the SC should be given the chance to hear Beathan’s appeal on the forums issues.
Justice Soothsayer: But I am also troubled by the scope of judicial review not being informed by the UDHR.
Patroklus Murakami: yes justice. i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which will hopefully be decided next week
Gwyneth Llewelyn promises to make some nasty comments regarding the UDHR 😉
Justice Soothsayer: though I am glad you said you would recuse yourself from any subsequent appeal by Beathan after SC review.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, the idea always was for rights to be built up through the common law, ratehr than be informed by the UDHR, which is both very vague and very wide.
Justice Soothsayer: which brings us right back to the SC appointing a pro tem judge, I think.
Patroklus Murakami: i think ash is mistaken there, the udhr *does* apply and is one of our sources of law. but that’s a longer argument. i’ll post on it later today when i’ve gathered my thoughts
Ashcroft Burnham: Where in the list of sources of law would you each seek to put the UDHR?
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree. The UHDR is a fundimental document. Really our bill of rights.
Patroklus Murakami: ‘the idea always was’? who’s idea~? and who did u communicate that to
Moon Adamant: i can not agree that the UDHR be thrown aside.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, the existing constitution allows the SC to appoint a special judge (or as you call it, a “pro tem” judge).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can you give me a reference to that, Ash, please?
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to ask how broad the Judiciary’s role in forum is at the moment. Ash. are you asserting that the Judiciary is tasked with the actual moderation tasks, or does it merely serve as an appellate court for disputes on forum moderation?
Claude Desmoulins: Also…
Ashcroft Burnham: Hold on…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks.
Claude Desmoulins: Does it now require a court case to get a spam posting removed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: (One moment Claude, answering Gwyn’s question…)
Claude Desmoulins: back in a couple of minutes
Claude Desmoulins: sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry for the interruption. I must confess that I have missed the possibility of the SC nominating pro tem judges
Gwyneth Llewelyn is also re-reading teh Constitution at the same time
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, this is the part in question: 8. If no Judge of Common Jurisdiction is available to preside over any proceedings in any Court of Common Jurisdiction, either by virtue of Section 7 above, or because there is no Judge of Common Jurisdiction at all who holds office at a time at which a Judge of Common Jurisdiction is required to preside over such proceedings, the Dean of the Scientific Council shall appoint a member of the Scientific Council to act as judge in those proceedings, and that person shall, for the purposes only of the particular proceedings for which he or she is appointed, have all and only the powers in respect of those proceedings as a Judge of Common Jurisdiction.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AAh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you interpret that on a case by case base??
Ashcroft Burnham: Now, to answer Claude’s question, the executive function of forum moderation is a matter for the SC.
Ashcroft Burnham: The SC can also have its own internal appeals process if it likes.
Justice Soothsayer: which would apply to Beathan’s appeal, since Ash was warned off in the very same decision Beathan seeks to appeal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and actually, it’s even slightly more complex…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, I understand that
Ashcroft Burnham: But there remains the possibility for anybody to bring a claim before a Court of Common Jurisdiction alleging that the SC has exercised its executive power in forum moderation unlawfully, and seeking an order that it change one particualr act of forum moderation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder, were the two candidates for the Judiciary approved or not? (sorry for having missed the first minutes of the RA meeting)
Justice Soothsayer: no, we have some questions for them Gwyn
Ashcroft Burnham: No, the RA wants to ask tehm questions 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Moon Adamant: and why not against the SC in session? after all, the action of forum regulation is exercised by ONE SC chair
Ashcroft Burnham: So, if the matter ever were to end up before a Court of Common Jurisdiction, there’d have to be a special judge appointed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ashcroft, does the JA give powers to the citizens to sue the Government?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’m asking since I never saw that bit)
Moon Adamant: before*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where is that article?
Ashcroft Burnham: A state can be a party to proceedings.
Ashcroft Burnham: Because it’s a body coroporate recognised by law.
Ashcroft Burnham: The CDS is a state.
Ashcroft Burnham: The court may hear cases between any two or more parties and make orders on the basis thereof.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So this means that if someone disagrees with the way a particular RA member voted on a decision, that member can face court.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, for example…: 9. Subject to any powers of the Scientific Council when sitting as a court expressly stated in the text of this Constitution, Courts of Common Jurisdiction, and only Courts of Common Jurisdiction, shall have the power when giving judgment on a disputed matter between two or more parties (who must be residents of SecondLife? or bodies corporate, including states, recognised as such by the law of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, but who need not be citizens of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators): ? (a) to make binding determinations of the rights, duties, powers, privileges, immunities, liabilities and disabilities of any or all such parties according to the law of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators;
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry for asking this rather obvious question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been studying the Constitution of the US and Portugal yesterday,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for obvious reasons,
Ashcroft Burnham: Um… no sane judge would ever hold that the law of the CDS prevented RA members voting as they liked within their absolute discretion 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Government’s members cannot be sued in the Judiciary when exercising their mandated powers ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although there are special courts/procedures for misabuse of power, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But forum moderation is a Governmental function.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, and, in any event, the judiciary is bound to follow any duly ratified act of the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So no sane judge would revert a Governmental decision, right? 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: No, that’s not the case.
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s executive action.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is not the case?
Ashcroft Burnham: One can have judicial review of executive action, but not of legislative action, since legislation is recognised as being of supreme power over the judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: The government is most certainly not immune from suit.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Why is it an executive action and not a Governmental function, and how is that made clear for clarifying subsequent issues?
Ashcroft Burnham: But legislation, qua legislation, is of supreme authority below the constitution (and only the SC may determine whether legislation is consistent with the constitution or not, and only then at the time of ratification).
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ashcroft Burnham: An executive action is a governmental function.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s nothing to stop courts from dealing with governmental functions, provided that the principle that legislation is supreme is always acknowledged.
Ashcroft Burnham: We do not have equality before the law if the government is immune from suit.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right. Under that principle, yes, all decisions by the SC can be reverted by the Judiciary.
Justice Soothsayer: I’m not so sure about that last proposition, Ash.

Ashcroft Burnham: Except decisions of the SC when sitting as a court, which the Courts of Common Jurisdiction must follow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Justice, indeed we don’t have that explicitly under our constitution
Justice Soothsayer: In the US we have the 11th Amendment, which makes government immune from damages unless that immunity is waived,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I have to agree with Ash that “by default” he might be right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, same in other Constitutions. Well, I haven’t read *all* of them, but almost all have a way to provide a limited immunity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ours doesn’t.
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, in the UK, we have the Crown Proceedings Act 1948, which makes the Crown liable as an ordinary party in any action. Crown immunity was abolished long ago (except for the sovereign herself) as being backwards.
Justice Soothsayer: so perhaps we need a CDS version of the 11th Amendment if we want to ensure that we don’t end up giving ourselves a huge liability.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Justice, my point.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, what kind of immunity do you imagine?
Justice Soothsayer: exactly, gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is a *criminal* act, Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, first of all, let’s start with this: from what do you think that the government ought be immune?
Justice Soothsayer: For instance, limiting ourselves against any punitive damages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no Constitution allows immunity from criminal acts, although the proceedings might be different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other are “exercising functions”
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, we, of course, deliberately fused civil and criminal law 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: We don’t have punative damages: only fines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: almost all Constitutions allow Governmental officers to exercise their invested powers without fear of suit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I know, Ashcroft. My point was just one of clarification.
Ashcroft Burnham: Hmm, that’s a common law principle in the UK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but not in the CDS.
Ashcroft Burnham: Except, of course, there’s the possibility of judicial review if an official has been found to act ultra vires.
Ashcroft Burnham: Not yet 🙂 The common law hasn’t developed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that we also have ? impeachment 😉
Patroklus Murakami: so a disgruntled forum user could sue the SC over a forum moderation decision, and be awarded punitive damages by the judiciary?
Ashcroft Burnham: But, one must be careful not to make any such immunity so wide as also to preclude judicial review.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat, exactly.
Ashcroft Burnham: Courts must be able to say “this executive act was outside the scope of the conferred discretion and was therefore unlawful”.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, we don’t have punative damages: only fines.
Ashcroft Burnham: Fines are a penal order, so culpability would have to be proved.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, and removal from office, banishment, etc
Ashcroft Burnham: Culpability woudl not be proved if it was found that the forum moderator acted mistakenly, albeit in good faith.
Ashcroft Burnham: Removal from office would be by way of impeachment hearing.
Patroklus Murakami: so SC members put their virtual property (and money) on the line when they rule on the language used in a flame war? fines = loss of money, no?
Ashcroft Burnham: Banishment would need something very serious.
Justice Soothsayer: but we are talking about a claim against the state, not an individual
Ashcroft Burnham: Only if they do so otherwise than in good faith.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but this loophole allows such things 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: What loophole?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Justice Soothsayer: Pat, what if, for example, an SC member deleted every one of my postings out of spite?
Ashcroft Burnham: That would be a serious matter indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the notion that someone can claim to target individuals, not Government bodies, when filing a suit to revert a decision.
Ashcroft Burnham: Probably grounds for impeachemnt.
Justice Soothsayer: Would they be liable to me for any sort of economic damages?
Justice Soothsayer: Would the government?
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, impeachment would be a remedy. Is it the sole remedy?
Ashcroft Burnham: Not necessarily.
Patroklus Murakami: well, justice. you would appeal to the SC as a body against that arbitrary action
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ash claims it’s not the sole remedy.
Ashcroft Burnham: A person who commits an act of culpable wrongdoing could be ordered to pay compensation for that act.
Patroklus Murakami: and the SC would have to judge how to discipline its members
Justice Soothsayer: What if my business was destroyed as a result, no one bought my products and I lost L$10k a day as a result? Who pays?
Ashcroft Burnham: You’d have to prove all that, of course, if it was disputed 😉
Patroklus Murakami: as a result of deleted froum postinngs? how could that be justice?
Justice Soothsayer: just a hypothetical, of course.
Ashcroft Burnham: Far-fetched, but not inconceivable.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, as I said, it woudl have to be proven.
Justice Soothsayer: Announcement of my Grand Opening Roman Law event?
Justice Soothsayer: Assume I prove the loss. Who pays? The state?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, the individual.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Patroklus Murakami: and who do u want arbitrating? the SC or our Chief Judge (who has unilaterally suspendedd the UDHR this week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless one sues the State.
Ashcroft Burnham: An individual wrongdoer would always be liable to pay. The question is whether the state would be jointly and severally liable.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, I have not unilaterally suspended anything.
Justice Soothsayer: YEs, and my point, and Gwyn’s too i think, is that state liability is not clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
Justice Soothsayer: And do we, as a collective group, want to impose that kind of liability on ourselves?
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh… so what you want to clarify is vicarious liability of the state as a body collective for misdeeds of its individual members?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Up to the RA to decide ? and if the RA doesn’t, someone will decide for them 😉
Moon Adamant: brb
Justice Soothsayer: Right, Gwyn, and the “who decides” is where all this started.
Ashcroft Burnham: Well that, along with a myriad otehr questions of public and private law, is, of course, something to be developed along with the common law. If you think it pressing enough you can, of course, draft a statute on it.
Justice Soothsayer: The CSDF proposal is that the SC will have the ultimate decision power, I think.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, if you do, may I ask that you use the word “compensation” instead of “damages”?
Ashcroft Burnham: The CSDF proposal is that the SC will have the ultimate power to decide *everything* judicial, which is a very, very radical departure indeed from the original scheme of the Judiciary Act, and reverses essentially the whole point of it.
Patroklus Murakami: it clearly needs discussion. if we are to have liability it needs to be clear. or no one with any sense will take a govnt position in the CDS for fear of being sued!
Ashcroft Burnham: If that is a matter of sufficient public concern, somebody needs to draft legislation on it.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, actually, Pat’s concern is the oppostie of Justice’s…
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat is concerned about individual liability for wrongdoing, whereas Justice is concerned about the vicarious liability of the state.
Ashcroft Burnham: In any event, if it is a concern great enough that you think it needs resolving by detailed rules in advance, the only sensible answer is to draft a statute on it.
Ashcroft Burnham: But one msut be clear about one’s aims first.
Ashcroft Burnham: Does one want to prevent individuals who happen to hold public office being punished for culpable wrongdoing when in that office?
Ashcroft Burnham: In what, if any, circumstances should the state indenmify holders of public office against non-penal orders of compensation, etc., made against those individuals?
Ashcroft Burnham: When, if at all, ought the state as a body collective be jointly and severally liable for the wrongdoings of a state servant?
Justice Soothsayer: We have gotten a bit off track in this discussion. CSDF proposal would take judicial review of SC forum moderation away, right? And make the SC the highest court in the land?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes, quite contrary to the whole scheme and purpose of the Judiciary Act.
Patroklus Murakami: the CSDF amend would restore the SCs role as forum moderators and take power of appeal away from the Judiciary. yes
Ashcroft Burnham: The SC’s role as forum moderators has not been taken away, Pat, as I already explained.
Ashcroft Burnham: But, just as with any executive power, the courts have hte power to review it if it is exercised unlawfully.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: quid custodie custodiem, etc
Claude Desmoulins: My son’s up. Feel free to discuss. Please make sure I get the recorder back.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why are you so keen for the SC to be immune from judicial review of forum moderation, Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for Pat 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and bye bye, Claude!)
Patroklus Murakami: i am keen for the Judiciary to be prevented from usurping any more control over this community. the change to the moderation rules was never discussed. if it is to change you should make the case for the change, not sneak it in by the back door
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, that doesn’t make any sense at all.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think that the judiciary is userping anything?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It isn’t? 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: And are you suggesting that I somehow delibeartely tried to conceal anything? If so, upon what basis?
Patroklus Murakami: it makes perfect sense. i’m sorry that u don’t understand the point tho
Jon Seattle agrees with Pat and Gwyn on this.
Ashcroft Burnham: Can we try to be clear on this for a moment
Ashcroft Burnham: Firstly, why do you think that the judiciary is “userping” anything by always having had a power of judicial review?
Patroklus Murakami: forum moderation- usurped by the judiciary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ash, there are clear implications when the onlky person that is allowed to interpret the law is the one that writes it 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think it a userpation, i.e. an *illegitimate* taking of power?
Patroklus Murakami: constitutional interpretation- usurped by the judiciary
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s why the RA should appoint the other judges.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The whole purpose of having a system where the law is NOT interpreted by the branch that enacts it is to avoid these kinds of complications, as well as the accusations.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat – I ask again: why a *userpation*: where is the illegitimacy?
Patroklus Murakami: udhr suspended- unilaterally, by the Chief Judge
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think that there is any unilateral suspension of anything? I was just enumerating the consequences of the constituion as expressly drafted?
Ashcroft Burnham: And can you answer my questions, please? *Where is the illegitimacy*?
Jon Seattle: Yes, very troubling. The UDHR is so central.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, i agree that “usurpation” is a strong word. After all, once the RA delegates power, and that delegation is validated by a RA decision, it cannot be “usurpation”.
Ashcroft Burnham: Quite.
Ashcroft Burnham: It seems to me to be a wholly unfounded claim.
Ashcroft Burnham: What is the basis of it, Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like reverting that decision is not “usurpation” either 😉
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, I think the CSDF is quite surprised at the extent of judicial power.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why? It was clear from the express wording of the constitution all along.
Ashcroft Burnham: And how does surprise entail userpation?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aah that is a different issue. It comes again to the point of who interprets what the law *means* 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: The judiciary, of course: that’s its inherent function.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see? 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t believe that anyone anticipated that the forums would be taken over by the judiciary. if that was the inention of the JA then it should have been made clear
Ashcroft Burnham: The forums have not been taken over by the judiciary.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think that they have?
Ashcroft Burnham: And precisely what sort of additional clarification was needed? And how was I to know that you would find it unclear?
Patroklus Murakami: if u are the final arbiter of what goes on the forums then u have taken over moderation rights and sidelined the SC
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, part of the problem is that when Beathan said he would appeal a frum moderation decision, you said he had to do so in your court.
Ashcroft Burnham: And I ask again – why “userp”? Where is the illegitimacy?
Ashcroft Burnham: And then I said that I would refuse to sit as the judge.
Justice Soothsayer: *forum
Ashcroft Burnham: So where is the problem?
Patroklus Murakami: yet the SCs role on this was not altered by the JA
Ashcroft Burnham: Role on what, Pat?
Ashcroft Burnham: And where is the userpation?
Ashcroft Burnham: Why won’t you answer that?
Justice Soothsayer: skipped a step, I think. The full SC should decide first.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s what we all agreed in the end, wasn’t it? The SC has the power to review its own decisions.
Justice Soothsayer: yes, you did come to that correct conclusion.
Justice Soothsayer: But the trouble is what might happen next.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why is that troubling?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok, I must flag myself as biased. When I first read the Judiciary Act, I *thought* that the Judiciary had, as a role, the *application* of law in case of conflicts arising from issues with the citizens
Ashcroft Burnham: Why does it trouble you, or anyone else, that Benjamin or Oni, or, if neither are appointed in time, a member of the SC appointed by Gwyn should sit and hear a judicial review case?
Justice Soothsayer: After the SC decides, the judicial review does not appear to be grounded by the UDHR, which many of uys take to be our Bill of Rights.
Patroklus Murakami: yes ash, you came to that correct conclusion eventually. after you had said that your courts would have to hear the appeal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that comes from my bias of living under a system where that’s the role of the Judiciary. This is not the case of the CDS,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: where the judiciar both inetrprets AND applies the law.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, if that’s the problem, the solution is to put it into the list of sources of law. But that has many of its own problems.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What problems?
Ashcroft Burnham: The fact that the UDHR is so very vague.

Patroklus Murakami: in your zeal to make a point you frightened everyone with the prospect of ashcroft burnham – moderator of the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vague? The UDHR? 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: And then we have to work out *where* in the list of the sources of law it should go.
Ashcroft Burnham: I am not a forum moderator.
Ashcroft Burnham: I am a judge.
Moon Adamant: and nevertheless, the UDHR is central to a lot of constitutions iRL
Justice Soothsayer: The point has been made that the UDHR is already in the Constitution, but it is in the Preamble.
Ashcroft Burnham: I hear cases, including potentially judicial review cases about forum moderation (but not the one involving a thread on which I posted, obviously).
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: i daresay you may have a comment on those constitutions and legal systems as well…
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s referred to in the constitution.
Ashcroft Burnham: But it’s not in the list of sources of law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ashcroft, the whole notion of having the UDHR as a founding document was to establish that both the Constitution, and the Code of Law, would follow a framework established on the assumption that at least everything would guarantee citizen’s unalienable rights.
Ashcroft Burnham: The problem is that many of those rights conflict, and the UDHR tells us nothing about how to resolve those conflicts.
Moon Adamant: well, Ashcroft, this RA can make it so very explicit so you hold no more existential doubts 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, Gwyn, and I am concerned that our only judge doesn’t see the point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, any time either the Constitution or the Code of Law would violate basic human rights, those items could be removed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, the change proposed does not make anything existing explicit: it radically changes the whole structure of the judiciary.
Patroklus Murakami: what is becoming painfully clear is that, in passing the JA, the RA has ceded far more power than intended to the Judiciary and hence to you as Chief Judge. and i for one, am no longer comfortable witht that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Ash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: NOW you understand why the role of the SC was a *philosophic* one 😉
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, why does the issue of judicial review of forum moderation make such a big difference to the overall picture?
Ashcroft Burnham: No, actually.
Ashcroft Burnham: Philosophy is about understanding the world in the abstract, not interpreting the law.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a small point ash in a bigger picture
Ashcroft Burnham: You haven’t told us precisely how that bigger picture is constituted.
Diderot Mirabeau: is there any disagreement between the members of the RA on this point?
Moon Adamant: i believe that the matter is long past forum moderation, actually
Patroklus Murakami: your recent actions and interpretations add up to something very troubling
Ashcroft Burnham: In any event, there are two very separate issues here…
Ashcroft Burnham: And they shoudl be treated as separate.
Ashcroft Burnham: (1) Shoudl the UDHR be treated as a source of law?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I think that Pat wasn’t referring to the “issue of judicial review”, but to the point that at this moment, we don’t have the assurance that the person that ultimately will moderate the forums even respects freedom of speech…
Diderot Mirabeau: if not why not just proceed to the next item on the agenda?
Ashcroft Burnham: And (2) should the whole scheme of the Judiciary Act be radically altered so as to make the SC the final appellate body on everything?
Ashcroft Burnham: An affermative answer to the former does not entail one to the latter.
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, those are the two questions, I think.
Ashcroft Burnham: Furthermore, if one is to make the UDHR a source of law, one must first decide where in the list to put it.
Ashcroft Burnham: That is crucial.
Justice Soothsayer: As to (1), I think the UDHR is already in the sources of law, as our Constitution is the first one, and the Constitution’s Preamble makes the UDHR fundamental.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why is the existing Constitution unclear?
Ashcroft Burnham: Gwyn, do you really think that a person who criticises a human rights treaty for being vague necessarily, for that reason alone, does not respect freedom of speech?
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice: why do you asusme that we have a US-liek concept of “fundamental” in our legal system?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Ashcroft. I really think so.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why?
Patroklus Murakami: well, the first qn is not on the table. and i’ll show why the udhr appplies later. in any case we can amend the constitution to clarify this soon
Justice Soothsayer: Because of the wording of the Preamble, that means all of us have to uphold those basic rights.
Moon Adamant: indeed, each and every one of us
Ashcroft Burnham: Those who want the UDHR to be a source of law should tell us where in the list of sources of law it should go.
Ashcroft Burnham: Above or below the constitution?
Ashcroft Burnham: Above or below statute law?
Ashcroft Burnham: Above or below decisions of the SC?
Ashcroft Burnham: Above or below previous precenent of other courts?
Patroklus Murakami: stop trying to railroad us ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Above or below delegated legislation?
Justice Soothsayer: As to Q 2, I think your answer to q 1 makes me think CSDF may be correct.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because it’s one of those fundamental things… either the UDHR is valid, or it isn’t. If it’s not valid because it’s “vague”, well, how can we know that someone will use that argument to restrict other people’s rights?
Patroklus Murakami: we don’t need to decide that now and you know it
Moon Adamant: indeed Gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: so stop trying to force us to answer on a complex question ‘on the fly’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (IMHO the UDHR is not vague at all, and has no contradictions per se, since it enumerates philosophic principles, not procedures)
Ashcroft Burnham: Of course you do: it would be utterly incoherent to have a constiution that specified that the UDHR shoudl be a source of law, but not specifying whether it shoudl take precedence over anything.
Ashcroft Burnham: Why on earth do you think that I know the contrary?
Ashcroft Burnham: Then stop trying to decide complicated issues on the fly, and change nothing until you’ve thought about it properly.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a debating trick. stop playing games ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think that it’s a trick or a game? I find that accusation wholly improper and.
Ashcroft Burnham: .
Ashcroft Burnham: What possible foundation is there for it?
Diderot Mirabeau: why do we allow one person to utterly dominate the debate of the RA .. the people?s elected representatives?
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think that that is the position?
Diderot Mirabeau: this is t he third meeting where decisionmaking has been blocked at the first item due to one person?s ability to type fast and unhindered
Moon Adamant: Ashcroft, you may rest assured that the UDHR will be safeguarded in our const to the point that even you will hold no doubts that it applies
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Diderot ;9
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The third you’ve *attended* 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Then add it as a source of law.
Ashcroft Burnham: I recommend that it be beneath previous precedent and above delegated legislation if you want a quick answer.
Diderot Mirabeau: if the RA take their responsibilities as the people’s elected representatives seriously I say they take a decision and move on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “source of law”, “founding documents” ? words, just words
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but they mean the same.
Jon Seattle: Diderot, of course we are on five day, so in effect the process will continue.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, the list of sources is important, because it purports to be exclusive.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The list is there.
Justice Soothsayer: Did, first of all, since Pel is moving and couldn’t be here, we’re on a 7day vote on anything this week
Patroklus Murakami: it already *is* a source of law, and as a government official, you are bound to uphold it as chief judge
Diderot Mirabeau: okay thanks for t he feedback .. but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be time to discuss any other items on the agenda
Justice Soothsayer: good point, Did
Justice Soothsayer: of course, various judiciary proposals are much of our agenda 😉
Patroklus Murakami: quite right diderot. we do seem to get derailed into discussing the judiciary ad nauseam!
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s because of the incessant opposition to the system before it has even started to hear cases.
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, it’s not on the enumerated list. That is where it needs to be if a court is to be bound by it as a source of law.
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, wonder where all the opposition springs from?…..
Diderot Mirabeau shakes his head
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “All branches of the government are bound to serve the public before themselves and to uphold the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights, Founding Philosophy, Constitution, local laws, the SL ToS, and Community Standards without exception.”
Ashcroft Burnham: The constitution is one of the things that bodies are bound to uphold.
Patroklus Murakami: quite gwyn, ty 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: The constitution provides a list of sources of law not including the UDHR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh?
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, the first source of law is the Constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ” to uphold the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights”
Justice Soothsayer: The Constitution includes an explicit reference to the UDHR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s even the first source listed 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: That does not, of course, mean that the judiciary would not, in fact, respect people’s rights: just that it would develop rights through the common law in a far more clear way than the vague treaty provides.
Moon Adamant: you don’t say
Justice Soothsayer adds a question to the confirmation list about the role of the UDHR as settled law for CDS
Patroklus Murakami: no, the judiciary will uphold the udhr as per the constitutional requirement, or it’s judges will be impeached
Ashcroft Burnham: Are you threatening to impeach judges if they don’t interpret the constitution in the way that you think it should be interpreted?
Patroklus Murakami: given a choice between your judiciary and the udhr i know which i would choose
Ashcroft Burnham: Why?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, ash. i am thretening to impeach judges that act contrary to the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Diderot Mirabeau concurs
Ashcroft Burnham: That is a very serious matter: you are acting so as to undermine judicial independence. That is itself unconstitutional.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no doubt that failing to uphold the list of sources established in the Constitution is, indeed, grounds for impeachment.
Justice Soothsayer: This discussion is becoming circular, and I’m going to have to call time on it in 5 minutes.
Ashcroft Burnham: Judicial independence is guarunteed by the UDHR of which you are so fond.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is indeed.
Patroklus Murakami: what else would we do with judges that don’t uphold the constitution *as they are required to do by virtue of their office*
Ashcroft Burnham: There is a difference between interpreting the constitution in a way with which you disagree, and purporting to disapply it completely.
Moon Adamant: surely even the judges will have to uphold Constitution Ash, or do you propose that they be above fundamental law?
Justice Soothsayer: Ash does not recognize UDHR as fundmental law.
Ashcroft Burnham: And there is a difference between treating the UDHR as a source of law and, using the common law to build up rights in the same vein, but that are clearer.

Diderot Mirabeau: the Chief Judge purports to have some monopoly to interpret the constitution as he sees fit
Ashcroft Burnham: There is no reason to believe that we have any *concept* of “fundamental law” in this legal system.
Patroklus Murakami: aah ash, but *you* don’t get to interpet the constitution, the SC does 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: It does on appeal.
Justice Soothsayer moves closer to the CSDF view
Moon Adamant: i have assured him that i, for one, will stand up so that UDHR is clearly defined as fundamental law 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: But one cannot properly impeach a judge merely for reaching a constitutional interpretation with which the SC disagrees.
Ashcroft Burnham: But what do you *mean* by “fundamental” here? What precise effect wouild it have?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more than “purporting”, Diderot. I thought it was clear already that the interpretation and the application of law are done by the Judiciary.
Patroklus Murakami: wanna try me? 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Is that a threat, Pat?
Justice Soothsayer: OK, time.
Diderot Mirabeau: sometimes it needs to be said short and sweet Gwyneth
Moon Adamant: it is already, in my understanding, but really we can’t have people having doubts about it, can we? 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: RA members only for a moment, please
Patroklus Murakami: no 🙂
Moon Adamant listens to Justice
Justice Soothsayer: My time is running short here – are there other items on our agenda we need to take up today?
Ashcroft Burnham: Then add it to the list of sources of law below court precedent and above delegated legislation, rahter than radically altering the whole structure of the judicairy.
Justice Soothsayer: Keeping in mind that all are on a 7-day vote?
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, pleas.
Justice Soothsayer: Time’s up on judiciary discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: Jon, Moon, other agenda items we need to consider?
Jon Seattle: Moon, do you want to say a few words on the citizen involvement bill?
Moon Adamant: oh, i think that the wording is very clear
Moon Adamant: and btw, i thank Diderot’s friendly amendment there 🙂
Moon Adamant: the object of this bill is not only to allow commissions, but also to propose a rough sketch of a framework in which they shall function
Justice Soothsayer: informed by our last commission, i suspect
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Moon Adamant: but really, the wording is clear, i believe
Justice Soothsayer: ok, gthanks Moon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a question ? in which way the “comission” will be different from the “committes” that are in the RA procedures?
Justice Soothsayer: anyone else on the Citizen Involvement bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just making that into a bill? (it was only an internal procedure)
Moon Adamant: well, it defines further the commissions as workgroups
Justice Soothsayer: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it supercedes the RA’s committees then?
Moon Adamant: and makes the RA clearly state the goals they shall aim at
Moon Adamant: i frequently had doubts about the jurisdiction of the SPC
Moon Adamant: i chose always to refer up to RA or Executive, but perhaps these things could be better defined at future commission empowerments
Moon Adamant: by the RA
Justice Soothsayer: OK, thanks Moon.
Justice Soothsayer: WE need to move on.
Moon Adamant: nods, i agree 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: We have to adjourn by 6, I’m afriad.
Justice Soothsayer: Did, would you like to speak to your Arbitration bill?
Ashcroft Burnham: Hang on, why aren’t we considering both bills togehter
Ashcroft Burnham: ?
Diderot Mirabeau: sorry back
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, then Ash’s bill, after Did speaks.
Ashcroft Burnham: I.e., fisrtly, considering whether we should have arbitration at all, then considering which of the two to pass?
Justice Soothsayer listens to Diderot
Diderot Mirabeau: the purpose of this bill as presented is to allow for one or more alternative procedures to arise for the settlement of disputes between parties in order to ensure that our citizens have the greatest degree of freedom of choice in conflict resolution bearing in mind the recent uncertainty about the judiciary as a mediator as expressed by several citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: it is hoped that allowing for alternative dispute resolution mechanisms to arise will also give us a broader foundation upon which to evaluate the judiciary in due time
Diderot Mirabeau: I formulated this bill to mirror the provision’s in Ashcroft’s proposal as closely as possible with two exceptions
Justice Soothsayer: and makes such arbitrations binding, right?
Diderot Mirabeau: I open up for the possibility for penal cases to be dealt with under arbitration aand I waive the requirement for agreement to be written in advance
Diderot Mirabeau: the rationale for these alterations is t hat I would like the possibility for arbitration to be as accessible as possible – I fear that he wording in the alternative propsal might block some citizens from even realising they have an alternative to the judicary
Diderot Mirabeau: having said that I am not adverse to incoroporating the alterantive propsal’s exxclusion of criminal proceedings if sufficiently weighty grounds can be presented for the necessity therof … thank you
Justice Soothsayer: OK, questions for Diderot? Then we;ll turn to Ash’s alternative bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Diderot, will these supercede articles 19 and 21 of the JA, that establish the rules for alternative methods of arbitration (under the PJSP)?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eg, powers of the PJSP: (h) to provide or procure from any suitable provider alternative dispute resolution services for litigants or prospective litigants in any court in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators; and
Ashcroft Burnham: Why do you think that there are reasons for excluding impeachment but not penal cases? Why do not the reasons that suffice for impeachment also suffice for penal cases?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ” 21. When there are fewer than three members of the Public Judiciary Scrutiny Panel, the Representative Assembly may exercise the power set out under Section 19, paragraph (h) above (but only in respect of procurement and not provision of alternative dispute resolution services) if there are no existing arrangements for alternative dispute resolution in place, or the existing arrangements are inadequate.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So will these two be repealed?
Justice Soothsayer: Gwyn’s question first, pleas.
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s agood question since the future role of the PJSP seems to be unclear .. but it would seem that they put the power of deciding on initiating such procedure in the hands of citizens rather than in the hands of the PJSP or any other body, which means I presume that hey must supersede them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ty.
Diderot Mirabeau: Ashcroft I asked you to present a compelling case for why penal cases should be excluded .. so far you have failed t o do so
Ashcroft Burnham: Actually, it doesn’t, because neither Bill provides any sort of service.
Ashcroft Burnham: It just makes provision for arbitration to be binding.
Ashcroft Burnham: So it doesn’t supercede anything.
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, I’m asking you the question first. I’ll answer yours when you answer mine: what reason is there to exclude impeachment hearings that does not also apply to penal cases?
Justice Soothsayer: I tend to agree with Ashcroft on that last point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, me too 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, as to impeachment, it is a highly political act.
Justice Soothsayer: I would be uncomfortable with ceding the political power to an arbitrator
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s no tpolitical power: it’s judicial power in teh political sphere.
Diderot Mirabeau: actually I said in my presentation that I was willing to waive the inclusion of criminal proceedings if compelling reasons could be given for doing so … you have yet to give me that compelling reason
Ashcroft Burnham: No real life nation allows aribtration to decide penal cases.
Diderot Mirabeau: and is the CDS a real life nation? No? well I rest my case
Ashcroft Burnham: The reason for that is that it effectively allows vigilantes.
Justice Soothsayer: actually, thats not quite correct, ash.
Ashcroft Burnham: One can’t be sure that one’s arbitrators will be unbiased.
Ashcroft Burnham: If people are settling private disputes, on tehir head be it.
Justice Soothsayer: We do have non-judicial resolution of criminal cases – mayor’s courts, for instance.
Ashcroft Burnham: But if people’s liberty (in the first life), or, at least, status as a citizen is at stake, then the full formalities of a proper judicial process must be required.
Justice Soothsayer: Why can’t those formalities be waived?
Ashcroft Burnham: What exactly is a mayor’s court, and how is it non-judicial?
Ashcroft Burnham: Because of hte importance and nature of the decision.
Ashcroft Burnham: I could ask the same about impeachment.
Diderot Mirabeau: I would not be adverse to requiring that cases where the desired sanction is permanent banishment would need to be heard by a court
Diderot Mirabeau: can you possibly formulate the amendment in language compatible with what is already in the propsal?
Ashcroft Burnham: So, Diderot, what would the maximum banishment that you would imagine that an arbitrator could impose?
Ashcroft Burnham: And would it be constitutional to pass your Bill, since a person has a right to “trial in accordance with law” before being banished? Are arbitration proceedings trials in accordance with law? Or do you imagine that consenting to arbitration entails consenting not to be so tried?
Justice Soothsayer: It’s 6:00 and we need to adjourn.
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, I’ve no idea what you have against my original bill..
Diderot Mirabeau: it is written in Ashcroft language
Justice Soothsayer: I suggest that Ash and Diderot continue to discuss the arb bills n the forums.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of adjournment to seven day?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh pfft ? you can do better than that, Diderot 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: wb Claude
Ashcroft Burnham: I notice, Diderot, that your proposal fails to require that arbitration is performed according to the agreed procedures or on the agreed subjects. Is that deliberate?
Diderot Mirabeau: that is the only reason Gwyneth … I already said t hat it is functionlly identical to Ashcroft’s propsal except on two points
Ashcroft Burnham: And what do you mean by “Ashcroft language?” I have written my Bill in very clear and precise text.
Claude Desmoulins: There is a motion to adjourn
Ashcroft Burnham: Ahh, but it’s not functionally identical.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Diderot Mirabeau: you have written your bill in a quaint language as used in the English legislature
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: we’re adjourned to seven day. Please touch the recorder if you haven’t
The meeting closed at 6:2 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: January 06, 2007

Meeting on 2007-01-06
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ashcroft Burnham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Moon will be here in two minutes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: coo ee 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning, Gwyn.
Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you! Good morning to you all 🙂
Jon Seattle: Good morning Gwyn.
Claude Desmoulins: Then we’ll wait just a bit.
Fernando Book: HI all and happy new year!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed ? happy new year, Fernando!
Patroklus Murakami: shake it like a polaroid picture gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: hi fernando
Jon Seattle: Hi Fernando
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh I should have a gift for you, Fernando ? I forgot what day it is today 🙂
Fernando Book: Me too Gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol noooo
Sudane Erato: hehe
Raven Cremorne: Hey
Diderot Mirabeau: up the stairs
Diderot Mirabeau: hello everyone 🙂
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Blingbling Cassowary: hello
Diderot Mirabeau: there’s a seat between Jon and Justice Blingbling 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi diderot, sudane, blingbling
Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: hey Luna
Sudane Erato: hello 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Blingbling
Patroklus Murakami: wow, popular meeting today
Blingbling Cassowary: hi everyone
Jon Seattle: Hi Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi hi 😀
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Diderot
Blingbling Cassowary has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: We have everyon but Pel/
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not sure he has access at home .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: hey Jon .. good to see you … how’s your building project coming around?
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the recorder.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: oops .. seems the meeting is starting
Diderot Mirabeau goes quiet .. at least for a while
Claude Desmoulins: Also touch the document box to get an agenda, and copies of bills.
Jon Seattle: Quite good diderot
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww thank you Fernando 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s start with reports
Ashcroft Burnham: As to the judiciary, the first case has been filed by a gentleman called Thor Forte, who is bringing a claim for unlawful banishment.
Ashcroft Burnham: That claim is being resisted, and the Chair of the Judiciary Commission is in the process of setting a convenient date for the pre-=trial hearing.
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Oni
Jon Seattle: Hello Oni
Oni Jiutai: Hi, All. Sorry I’m late.
Oni Jiutai has indicated consent to be recorded.
Fernando Book: Hi Oni.
Justice Soothsayer: 1 seat left
Ashcroft Burnham: Good morning, Oni 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Oni 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi one

Moon Adamant: hi Oni
Patroklus Murakami: *oni
Diderot Mirabeau follows the new trend of disabling group titles in meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, btw, the SC reports that it’ll meet tomorrow at 10 AM, probably in CN ? I know, I haven’t posted the full agenda yet. But I’ll do it after this meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that this is a very silent meeting today *or* that she has crashed 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah, ty, Sudane!
Diderot Mirabeau: it’s silent for me too
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i had the same impression
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: well, I published the monthly financial report earlier this week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for that ? yes 🙂 Interesting reading!
Sudane Erato: and the finacial situation is quite good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: excellent!
Jon Seattle smiles and nods
Sudane Erato: i suspect that the full amount of loans will be repaid on April 1
Sudane Erato: we continue to get new members…
Sudane Erato: but we also continue to lose
Sudane Erato: so the total population is still under 70
Ashcroft Burnham: Who’s been lost this month?
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, last mongh.
Ashcroft Burnham: th.
Sudane Erato: ahh… Kevn Klein
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh 🙁
Sudane Erato: Mezumi Akula
Sudane Erato: hmm
Sudane Erato: Residual Overloard
Sudane Erato: perhaps others
Ashcroft Burnham: I thought that that was a concept, rather than a person…
Sudane Erato: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ash 🙂
Sudane Erato: no, its a person 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not really typing but suffering from lag effects.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else?
Justice Soothsayer: We might think about conducting a quick exit poll of folks who have left to find out why.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good suggestion, Justice!
Jon Seattle: Oh, very good idea
Moon Adamant: yes, that would be good
Patroklus Murakami: who should do it?
Justice Soothsayer: not sure who should do it, but Sudane has the data
Claude Desmoulins: On to the Faction Bill, please.
Sudane Erato: yes, I could supply names, if you wish…
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Moon Adamant: what is teh purpose of this bill, please?
Claude Desmoulins: I think it’s necessitated by CARE’s membership not being public.
Justice Soothsayer: to give time to configure the voting ballot?
Claude Desmoulins: It stipulates that faction heads must provide the Dean a list of the citizens who are members of their faction .
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i spoke to FR about this before he submitted the bill
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, Justice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, what did FR say?
Ashcroft Burnham: Um… doesn’t the Bill merely duplicate the constitution?
Patroklus Murakami: his concern was that,, with two new factions recruiting and the faction lists being quite ‘volatile’ we need to set a cut off date to configure teh electionvoting machines
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps i should say ‘fluid’ rather than ‘volatile’ 🙂
Fernando Book: Do the goverment (including the SC) needs to have a list of members of a faction different of those willing to serve?
Fernando Book: *Does
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Article IV, Section 2: “No later than 15 days prior to the opening of the polls, faction members will report to the SC Dean their willingness or unwillingness to serve in the RA.”
Patroklus Murakami: yes,faction members get to rank their candidates according to preference. this is key
Fernando Book: But only those willing to serve, Pat? These are my first elections and I’m just asking.
Claude Desmoulins: One must at some point establish the list of citizens eligible to rank in each faction.
Patroklus Murakami: the two lists are different fernando. the list of those willing to serve is the faction’s list of candidates. the faction member list is the list of people eligible to rank those candidates
Fernando Book: OK.
Patroklus Murakami: np 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on this bill?
Fernando Book: So Pat, non members can vote the faction, but can’t rank the candidates.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s correct fernando
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm yes. Just like that. You don’t need to be a member to vote, just to rank.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Moon Adamant: aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was a quick vote 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry. There’s an error in your agenda.
Moon Adamant: oh?
Claude Desmoulins: Jon’s Judiciary bills, which you have copies of, go in this next section with the rest of the Judiciary proposals. I forgot that they wouldnt’ embed since they’re no copy.
Blingbling Cassowary: excuse me all, but its’ 4:30am for me and i’m off to bed.
Ashcroft Burnham: Good night…
Claude Desmoulins: Good night
Oni Jiutai: Night, Bling
Patroklus Murakami: bye blingbling. goodnight 🙂
Fernando Book: Good night.
Blingbling Cassowary: thanksfor letting me sit in
Sudane Erato: :)…. bye Blingbling 🙂
Blingbling Cassowary: night
Jon Seattle: Night bling
Justice Soothsayer: bye
Jon Seattle: Oh, no mod.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, can we establish a time limit on the debate on the “Seattle Justice” bills, please?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok, that’s why they come separately 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, since I answered fully all of your questions in the forum, I trust that you will now answer all of mine that I asked you on that same thread?
Claude Desmoulins: Jon, these are your bills, you should start. Perhaps 20 minutes each.
Claude Desmoulins: Amendment first.
Moon Adamant: i have several bills… which will we discuss?
Moon Adamant: ah, ok
Jon Seattle: Okay,
Moon Adamant: i would like to make a public statement of support of the Soothsayer-Seattle? PCA and Bill
Ashcroft Burnham: BRB
Jon Seattle: This bill is not supposed to be expicitly for or against the current Judicial Act, no matter what my personal preference. They provide a way forward where we can try to reach community consent on what the Judiciary should look like.
Jon Seattle: Concent is different from agreement.
Jon Seattle: We live, in SL, is a palce that changes often, and we will need to have the support of much of our citizens if any system is not to bring disruption. We also need a system that will include checks to protect citizen’s rights.
Jon Seattle: this bill provides a way for the CDS to move forward towards that goal.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, given that I’ve answered, as you asked, each of your specific questions on the forum thread about this Bill, I trust that you will now answer each of my questions to you on that same thread?
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, I made the point that consent is differnt from agreement. I had the impression that my missed the point in your post. Would you restate your questions?
Ashcroft Burnham: Well, I’ll copy and paste them all if you like, but let’s start with what exactly you think that consent is, and whether or not you think that there is “consent” of exactly that type for this proposal?
Moon Adamant: Ashcroft, are you speaking as a private citizen or as teh Chief Judge of Common Jurisdiction?
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m speaking as the person who designed our present judicial system.
Moon Adamant: that is not what i asked
Diderot Mirabeau: maybe for you the roles are inseperable?
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m not sure that I agree that those are the only alternatives.
Ashcroft Burnham: A “private citizen” is not somebody who has the same investment as the architect of the present system.
Ashcroft Burnham: What is being proposed is, from my perspecive, the same as a proposal to level Colonia Nova and re-consider from scratch what the theme would be to you.
Jon Seattle: Can I assume then, that you are not speaking as chief judge?
Ashcroft Burnham: Yes.
Moon Adamant: ah
Ashcroft Burnham: *Theme *should* be.
Diderot Mirabeau: we actually did level Neualtenburg and rebuild it when it was found that much of the original design was tainted with claims of intellectual property and demands for undue compensation .. so I guess the analogy is not too far off
red rose: Please right-click and select Teleport
Moon Adamant: but i wouldn’t oppose that solely on basis of it being a personal investment of time and skill 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m not opposing this soeley on that basis, either.
Fernando Book: afk
Moon Adamant: my professional training allows me detachment from my work 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: that’s a rather poor analogy given widespread public support for CN, the involvement of dozens of citizens. the JA does nto command that level of support, it is almost universally vilified
red rose: Please right-click and select Teleport
Ashcroft Burnham: Perhaps now Jon can answer all of my questions, starting with the one that I just asked, given that I faithfully answered all of Jon’s questions?
Diderot Mirabeau: faithfully?
Moon Adamant: and indeed Pat
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: that claim is empirically inaccurate and based on insubstantial evidence.
Patroklus Murakami: where is your evidence in support of that statement?
Justice Soothsayer: I see that 3 of the 4 factions seem to share regret over the Judiciary Act
Diderot Mirabeau: yeah we want “evidence”
Oni Jiutai: Well, just because somebody has put a lot of work into something isn’t a reason to keep it – if there are good reasons for getting rid of it – but it must be something worth considering.
Moon Adamant: inded Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: The number of members of CARE is evidence that the judicairy is not “universally villified”. And the point is that your claim has no evidence to support it – what are the grounds upon which you make it?
Patroklus Murakami: the list of people opposed to the JA is as long as your arm and growing day be day
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: evidence, please.
Jon Seattle: I tend to agree with Diderot on that point. Censent is this case is when people agree to subject themselves to a system, perhaps in exchange for membership in our community. In effect the JA changes that my adding extra requirements for the citizen.
Jon Seattle: *by
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, that doesn’t explain what you meant by consent as distinct from agreement in this particular context.
Ashcroft Burnham: Do you believe that there is consent for what you propose?
Jon Seattle: Consent as distict from support, Ashcroft.
Patroklus Murakami: i doubt very much whether every member of CARE supports the JA, many seem to have joined because they thought they were joining a think tank and because CARE approached them. that’s not evidence in support of your case ash
Ashcroft Burnham: And by “people”, do you mean everybody? A substantial majority? A bare majority? What proportion?
Moon Adamant: so are you saying that the members of CARE are ‘more important’ than the members of other factions? If we go for numbers alone, i am sure that you will find that they’re quite balanced, perhaps even with a majority against JA
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, I asked you for evidence. Where is it?
Justice Soothsayer: Ash, this is a representative democracy. The representatives are charged with making that decision.
Ashcroft Burnham: And the next question to Jon is how this proposal differs from the “suspend and amend” option that the Special Commission universally rejected.
Moon Adamant: and btw, does your statement imply that membership of CARE MUST imply a total support of the JA?
Claude Desmoulins: If there is substantial support for the JA, the new RA will reflect that, and you might get out of it a structure closer to your original vision.
Moon Adamant: that’s interesting – i was actually wondering about that 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: well, if i were to list the names of the people who have declared themselves agains the JA it would be much longer than the list of those who have expressessed support. have u not been reading the forums lately?
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude, if you believe that, what is the reason that this Bill is appropraitely passed now ratehr tahn after the election?
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat – why do you assume that the people who post in the forums are representative?
Ashcroft Burnham: And where is your evidence that the list would be so constituted?
Patroklus Murakami: why do u assume that they are not?
Diderot Mirabeau: what was Ashcroft’s evidence in favour of a substantial majority of the citizenry being in favour of retaining the present JA?
Diderot Mirabeau: *(remove one of the “in favour”s)
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot – I never made that claim. My point is that we should wait until after the elections when we have evidence. The point is that now we don’t have much evidence eitehr way. Pat made a claim and I asked him for evidence. So far, he has failed to find any whatsoever.
Jon Seattle: This bill provides more of a level field for community discussion. Otherwise the new RA will have to deal with an operational system that has cases underway. That will make it a bit more difficult to make the change.
Justice Soothsayer: Our elections arent constitution referrenda
Justice Soothsayer: Though maybe they should be?
Patroklus Murakami: no ash, i’ve given u evidence but u refuse to accept it. this is part of the problem with u, stubborn refusal to see the other pont of view
Justice Soothsayer: But that is a different subject.
Ashcroft Burnham: Jon, how is that an answer to my question as to how this proposal differs from the “suspend and amend” option that was unambiguously rejected by the Special Commission?
Diderot Mirabeau: but why wait when we can make the decision now .. if we wait we will be biasing the decisionmaking against a change since it will require more than just a majority to change it by virtue of its designer having entrenched it heavily into the constitution
Moon Adamant: oh Ash
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: that’s an entirely unfair and most improper comment.
Oni Jiutai: Won’t we have an operational system with cases underway whatever we do?
Moon Adamant: so NOW the Special Commission is ‘representative’ after all, uh?
Diderot Mirabeau: stubborn refusals seems to describe my experience as well
Ashcroft Burnham: What you claim to be evidence is, as I have pointed out, wholly insufficient: there is no reason to believe that those who post on forums are represtntaive of our 68 citizens.
Justice Soothsayer: UNanimously rejected? I don; tthink so.
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon, the only thing that the Special Commission agreed on was that the suspend and amend option was the worst.
Moon Adamant: Ash, you and several others made a case in the Special Commission about it not being representative
Moon Adamant: with great disrespect to the work and opinions of others involved
Ashcroft Burnham: Because everybody is refusing to wait until after the elections, which would be truly representative, it’s the only evidence that we have.

Diderot Mirabeau: Ashcroft it seems that you switch the evaluative base for concepts depending on how it suits your argument?
Ashcroft Burnham: Even amongst those who are interested in the judiciary, “suspend and amend” is almost universally disfavoured.
Diderot Mirabeau: why is the Special Commission now suddenly a witness of truth
Jon Seattle: Ash, in a number of ways, really many of your making, the situation has changed and continutes to change. This does not suspend the court in any case. It just re-assigns how the court is constituted, restoring some important aspects to the state they were bedfore the JA made its very radical change in our constitution.
Moon Adamant: go read the transcripts, if you have any doubt
Patroklus Murakami: Ash,, do u deny that the majority of those who have spoken on the issue are opppsed to the JA?
Diderot Mirabeau: didn’t you say before that it was not representative of the population?
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat, I haven’t counted. A large number of people have spoken in both directions.
Ashcroft Burnham: But those who speak cannot be said to be necessarily representative.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, what conceivable genuine, legitimate objection could there be to waiting until after the election when the citizens’ views can be accurately tracked? Or don’t you trust the citizens to reach the “right” answer when voting?
Patroklus Murakami: no, a tiny minority support the JA now. some of those of us who supported it no longer feel we can
Diderot Mirabeau: didn’t you also at some point say that even if there was a majority in the people for changing someting in the judiciary that didn’t mean it was right?
Justice Soothsayer: All of this discussion of what is or is not representative is really off the mark. This body is the group that is charged with being the representatives.
Jon Seattle: Ash, I remember quite clearly that you attacked the commissions conclusions.
Ashcroft Burnham: PAt: where’s your evidence that only a “tiny minority” suport the current judicary?
Diderot Mirabeau: so why now your sudden concern for having a majority in the citizenry speak up about the judiciary?
Patroklus Murakami: why should the RA delay making a decision if they beleive iit is the right onne to make?
Ashcroft Burnham: The next of the questions to Jon from the thread is: Why should the status quo, determined as an acceptable compromise in accordance with the political rules existing at the relevant time, be preserved only if no significant minority opposes it, but radical changes to the status quo made only if they are not universally unpopular?
Justice Soothsayer: We’re the ones who have to make the decisions; we’re the ones who now regret voting for the Judiciay Act.
Moon Adamant: we that were there and did give our honest work into it remember very well your – and others’ – case against the representativity of teh commission
Justice Soothsayer: And we are entitled to change our minds.
Sudane Erato: may i suggest that the discussion focus on the merits of the issue and then come to a vote?
Claude Desmoulins: TIME
Sudane Erato: ty
Diderot Mirabeau: I think you need to clarify once and for all your position on concepts like “democratic representativity”, “the RA”, “an independent judiciary” and how they all relate to this affair
Ashcroft Burnham: Because the RA is making the decision on the basis that it is popular, when there is no evidence to support that, and when such evidence will be forthcoming very shortly.
Patroklus Murakami: indeed justice. the RA is entitled to look at the JA in operation and change its mind
Moon Adamant: no Ashcroft – teh RA is considering teh overall concern
Ashcroft Burnham: Except that it has refused to look at it in operation because it has refused to let it live long enough to operate.
Moon Adamant: that concern exists and you can’t deny it exists
Diderot Mirabeau: otherwise there is a very real danger as pointed out by historic examples that the emphasis put on the different priorities is switched to accommodate one’s argument for or against whatever is favourable to oneself in the situation
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon – the calibration of the levels of the concern is skewed, and will never be accurate except by election.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, point of order, we’re voting on the proposed Constitutional Amendment first, right?
Claude Desmoulins: OK RA. What’s the collective wish here?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, Justice.
Justice Soothsayer: Followed by 20 minutes on the follow-up bill?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: you can’t deny that at least equal concern exists at the propspect of this Bill and of abolition.
Justice Soothsayer: I’m ready to vote.
Claude Desmoulins: Assuming someone wishes to call the question on the Amendment
Jon Seattle: Me also
Diderot Mirabeau: “at least equal concern”?
Diderot Mirabeau: what’s the evidence for that?
Moon Adamant: possibly – but then we leave the matter free for further discussion
Jon Seattle: I call.
Ashcroft Burnham: The number of members of CARE is evidence for that.
Claude Desmoulins: The question has been called
Moon Adamant: and as you jsutly said, let the elctions be a test for that
Diderot Mirabeau: I have spoken to some of these and many say they were invited as observers to a think tank and none of those I spoke to had read the judiciary act
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon: if that’s true, why should your proposal be passed despite concerns, wheras the status quo cannot be preserved merely because there are concerns?
Claude Desmoulins: Order, please.
Claude Desmoulins: Ms. Adamant
Moon Adamant: Miss 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The question has been called.
Moon Adamant: sorry, recalling
Ashcroft Burnham: The final quesiton is: Why do you consider yourself to have a better mandate now to decide whether to destroy or preserve the judiciary than the Representative Assembly, constituted by members of factions who would just have fought an election one of whose issues was that very question, after the election would have?
Moon Adamant: ready to vote
Diderot Mirabeau: because it turned out that we got a different deal than what we expected obviously
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, the question has been called.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, we’re voting on the amendment
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Miss Adamant
Jon Seattle: Aye
Moon Adamant: 😀
Moon Adamant: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Mr. Seattle
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: The chair votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: The motion carries
Claude Desmoulins: Next.
Ashcroft Burnham: This is a very dark day for justifce in the CDS. There is no prospect whatsoever of justice being done in any of the oustanding cases.
Claude Desmoulins: The Judiciary revision bill
Claude Desmoulins: Mr. Burnham, I prefer to give our colleagues of the SC more credit than that.
Patroklus Murakami: this was the right decision, tho it gives me no pleasure to say so. the RA have made a brave decision
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree with Pat.
Moon Adamant: i support Claude’s comment
Ashcroft Burnham: That was one of the most destructive and damaging acts that anyone has ever performed in the history of the CDS.
Claude Desmoulins: Revision bill
Jon Seattle: This second bill does two things. One is mainly a detail: fixes some language in response to the amendment we just passed.
Patroklus Murakami: ‘in your opinion’ ash. we need to move on now
Jon Seattle: The second is that it provides a map for moving forward on these issues.
Diderot Mirabeau: only surpassed by the original JA I imagine
Ashcroft Burnham: Whether my opinion is right can be determined by, and only by, an application of reasoned argument: something that far too many stubbornly refuse to do.
Justice Soothsayer: Welcome to democracy.
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Ashcroft Burnham: Welcome to dishonesty, you mean?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: what are you implying?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah no you’ve been there before I believe
Justice Soothsayer: Personal invective is really out of order here.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Ashcroft Burnham: I am implying that it is fundamentally dishonest to believe something without being able to bring reasoned argument to bear on counter-arguments to that belief that purport to be conclusive.
Patroklus Murakami: ‘dishonesty’? that’s unfair
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, I support this follow up bill too
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: it is not unfair to state that claiming to be right, but knowing that one cannot find any flaws in purportedly conclusive counter-arguments to one’s posiution, is dishonest.
Justice Soothsayer: brb
Patroklus Murakami: ash, i understand that you’re upset but the RA has a bill to discuss and this is derailing the discussion. i’m happy to argue the point with u outside this meeting
Ashcroft Burnham: It’s not about me being upset – it’s about the fundamental importance of honest discourse that far too many people here have deliberately ignored.
Sudane Erato: yes… please carry on the philosophical discussion out side the room
Sudane Erato: if we could stick to the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please.
Moon Adamant waits for LRA
Diderot Mirabeau coughs
Auguste Chaplin: hello
Gwyneth Llewelyn taps fingers on her lap without an appropriate animation (I know, I know…)
Diderot Mirabeau: hello 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: hey .. some entertainment while we wait!
Diderot Mirabeau: did Claude book you?
Diderot Mirabeau: welcome to a meeting of the Representative Assembly of Neufreistadt 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn could tell jokes and empty the RA in less time it takes to write a new bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hi there, Auguste!
Moon Adamant: hello Auguste
Auguste Chaplin: sorry i don’t want to disturb
Auguste Chaplin: i thought it was some place to talk about politics
Diderot Mirabeau: don’t worry we were taking a teabreak but we probably need to continue in one minute or so
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry. Children awake
Moon Adamant: oh, you are welcome to observe the procedures
Diderot Mirabeau: you’re free to stay around and listen in
Auguste Chaplin: thank you
Auguste Chaplin: what is it about?
Diderot Mirabeau: we take decisions affecting the whole community … it’s a democratically elected body
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Auguste, click the document box on the table to get the agenda for today.
Diderot Mirabeau: or rather … they do .. since I am not a member ..
Auguste Chaplin has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Is there discussion on the content of the Seattle bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And while you’re at it, click on the recorder to give permission to be transcripted 🙂
Moon Adamant: this is the representative assembly of the CDS community, which is a democratically self-governed community
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll explain in IM auguste so the others can continue their meeting 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, minor family emergency
Diderot Mirabeau: point taken Pat 🙂
Moon Adamant: i support this Bill as well
Ashcroft Burnham: Do any of you believe that there is any realistic prospect whasoever of ever reaching an agreement or consensus on what sort of judiciary to have?
Justice Soothsayer: This provides an apporpriate framework for the debate to come, I just hope is can avoid being personal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At the RA level, Ashcroft? I’m very certain of that.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, it can only avoid being personal if everybody engages only in reasoned, honest, full debate. So far, many have failed to be forthcoming with that.
Justice Soothsayer: Consensus may be impossible, but agreement, maybe not.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, like Justice says 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: We had agreement without consensus before, that you are keen to destroy precisely because of that lack of consensus.
Diderot Mirabeau: you mean the kind of debate where 20% of all speaking time is allotted to one person?
Jon Seattle: I think we will do it. I have faith in the democratic system we have here. Sometimes is takes some time, but we seem to get where we need to go..
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, debate is not fair or unfair by the proportion of people who speak, since, in a forum, anbody can say as much as he or she likes without anybody else being able to stop her or him. Fariness is a matter of substance, not form.
Gwyneth Llewelyn coughs gently,. Will we address any more issues today?
Moon Adamant: i believe that with the proper attitude to _compromise_, there is a good chance that an agreement be reached
Diderot Mirabeau: hear hear
Ashcroft Burnham: The proper attitude to compromise is not, as has been displayed, a willingness to destroy what is the result of a compromise merely because one dislikes it.
Ashcroft Burnham: A compromise is what we had before.
Diderot Mirabeau: what evidence do you propose to support that claim?
Ashcroft Burnham: We now have only what the anti-judiciary extremists wanted.
Ashcroft Burnham: What claim?
Diderot Mirabeau: about the proper attitude to compromise
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Disliking it” is most surely a good reason for everything 🙂 … but I digress.
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot, it’s not an empirical proposition.
Justice Soothsayer: Now that we passed the amendment, we really need to pass this bill in order to clean up inconsistencies and allow the SC to move forward with pending matters.
Moon Adamant: indeed Justice, so i am ready to vote
Diderot Mirabeau: you need to provide evidence for your assertions that what has been decided is in fact destruction … and that the motivation is “dislike”
Justice Soothsayer: Then let the judicial debates continue.
Jon Seattle agrees with Justice
Ashcroft Burnham: If another compromise is reached, what is to stop that, too, from being destroyed in the same manner as the last compromise, and so on ad infinitum?
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s how it works in a democracy ..
Moon Adamant: well, democracies are dynamic, no?
Ashcroft Burnham: Not in any democracy that I’ve ever known – judicial systems are not constantly being torn apart.
Justice Soothsayer: I call the question on the pending bill, Claude.
Jon Seattle: Ashcroft, welcome to democracy. It remains responsive. But can we address the bill?
Ashcroft Burnham: True democracy can only work with stability, and with the rule of law.
Claude Desmoulins: The question is called
Patroklus Murakami: i think we will all hve learned some lessons from this experience ash. most notably that we should never implement ‘one man’s vision’
Jon Seattle: I am ready to vote.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, your answer to my question is that there is no reason whatsoever to believe that there will ever be any judicail stability, come what may, and that you are happy for there to be constant judicial uncertainty from now until eternity?
Diderot Mirabeau: where was your evidence for the use of the word “destruction” btw? and for your assumption regarding the motivation behind it?
Ashcroft Burnham: And you think that that would make a fair system?
Moon Adamant: that’s because the Judicial systems allow for smooth correction – which has been impossible in what regards this JA
Claude Desmoulins: Miss Adamant?
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot – the judiciary has been destroyed in that it no longer exists.
Moon Adamant: since any change has ALWAYS been opposed
Claude Desmoulins: Please note that we are voting on the bill.
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s wrong .. it is simply being taken care of by other means
Ashcroft Burnham: Moon – what do you mean by “smooth correction”?
Moon Adamant: ready to vote, Mr. Desmoulins 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Please do.
Ashcroft Burnham: The judicial system that we had has been destroyed.
Moon Adamant: Aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: AYe
Claude Desmoulins: the chair votesaye
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices a certain Caledonian influence in the formalities in the RA 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Given the previous actions of this meeting. I move to table PJSP election bill and Judiciary candidates
Diderot Mirabeau: no _your_ judicial system has been placed on the parking lot .. the judicial system that the CDS has had for two years remains in place
Moon Adamant: agreed
Jon Seattle: agreed
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot – how is that different from what I just explained?
Justice Soothsayer: agree to table.
Diderot Mirabeau: I use some other words
Ashcroft Burnham: To mean the same thing? In which case you were not telling the truth when you said “no”, were you?
Claude Desmoulins: Mirabeau arbitration bill
Diderot Mirabeau: no the different words are simply the tip of the iceberg … they imply there is a different meaning
Ashcroft Burnham: How precisely is the meaning different?
Diderot Mirabeau: I move that the arbitration be also shelved taking into account the recent decisions regarding the judiciary ..
Moon Adamant: btw, Mr. desmoulins, i won’t be able to attend this meeting for much longer 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Last week I asked Diderot & Ashcroft to post on the forums the merits of their respective bills; the Judicary Act discussion seems to have derailed that conversation.
Diderot Mirabeau: I could explain it to you but you would never understand
Ashcroft Burnham: I don’t ask that my arbitration bill be shelved.
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ve no doubt that there are many who lack faith in the legally inexperienced and unskilled Scientific Council to make their decisions for them.
Justice Soothsayer: I’d like to see movement forward on arbitration too.
Diderot Mirabeau: okay well ..

Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot – I take that to be a deliberate evasion of reason.
Diderot Mirabeau: no it’s just that I know you will keep on asking “why?”
Diderot Mirabeau: until I get tired
Ashcroft Burnham: And you know also that you won’t have any meaningful answers to those questions?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll renew my request for both Diderot & Ashcroft to submit forum postings on the merits of their respective bills.
Ashcroft Burnham: You get “tired” by realising that you have no reasons to support your arguments?
Sudane Erato: can we please stay on the agenda
Diderot Mirabeau: the intent behind my proposal was to suggest basically the same thing as Ashcrofts proposal but to use a wording that was more accessible to the citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: Ashcroft is free to suggest constructive amendments to implement the mechanisms by which my proposal differs from his
Ashcroft Burnham: “More accessible” doesn’t mean better: legislation must be precise, or else it goes badly wrong.
Diderot Mirabeau: namely in the areas of penal cases and the requirement to have written agreement
Justice Soothsayer: There was the question of whether to allow arbitration in banishment cases, I believe.
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot I do have a question about your lack of a criminal exclusion.
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot is free to do the same with mine.
Diderot Mirabeau: I said it first
Moon Adamant: I support Justice’s request
Ashcroft Burnham: Don’t be so immature.
Diderot Mirabeau: you did the same t hing last week remember?
Diderot Mirabeau: probably conveniently not
Ashcroft Burnham: Did what?
Diderot Mirabeau: said “I asked first”
Jon Seattle: I support Justice’s suggestion that we continue the debate on the two alternatives. I would like to see some abritation system in place eventually.
Ashcroft Burnham: That was because you were refusing to answer a question.
Diderot Mirabeau: no I wasn’t .. I was requesting that you backed up your assertation for the necessity of including penal cases and written agreement with argument and evidence
Diderot Mirabeau: and I did that before you asked your question
Claude Desmoulins: Normally in a banishment/criminal case the state is a party. Who would be empowered to choose arbitration on behalf od CDS?
Diderot Mirabeau: but you refused in order to instead proceed to your asking questions tactic
Ashcroft Burnham: And I pointed out that I had asked you for your reasons, to which you responded with no more than a quiestion, suggsting that you were incapable of doing so.
Sudane Erato: May I suggest that debate be restricted to RA members?
Diderot Mirabeau: I guess the aggrieved party could be, Claude?
Sudane Erato: since non RA members are unable to maintain focus
Claude Desmoulins: But isn’t the aggrieved party in a banishment CDS?
Ashcroft Burnham: Not necessarily: it could be anyone.
Diderot Mirabeau: it depends .. if the reason for banishment is griefing of an individual as in harassment
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s nothing in the constitution preventing private prosecutions.
Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps it could be up to the executive or the marshall of the peace to make the call on it based on consultation with any aggrieved parties
Ashcroft Burnham: You do all realise, don’t you, that criminal matters are deliberately excluded from arbitration provisions in real life nations?
Patroklus Murakami: i get the feeling this needs further thought and discussion
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the good old “real life nations”
Ashcroft Burnham: You put that in quote marks as if you didn’t think that they really were nations.
Diderot Mirabeau: quote markes are used to indicate a quote surprisingly
Moon Adamant: brb
Justice Soothsayer: The difference here is the penalty that can be levied. We can’t really imprison anyone here.
Diderot Mirabeau: *marks
Ashcroft Burnham: Why should that make a difference?
Claude Desmoulins: But what if Jon Q Griefer is accused of banishment for twisted torus bombing the Platz? There’s no individual victim.
Justice Soothsayer: It means that our criminal cases aren’t on quite the same level as RL nations’.
Ashcroft Burnham: Claude: why do you think that only a victim could bring an action?
Patroklus Murakami: why should we ‘aritrate’ with griefers?
Patroklus Murakami: *arbitrate
Diderot Mirabeau: then the Chancellor can inquire by IM the griefer as whether he wishes to seek arbitration or to be dragged through the court
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice – what precisely do you think that the consequences of that are? Does the rihgt to a fair trial still apply?
Justice Soothsayer: What we are discussing here is the possibility of one waiving the right to a fair trial in exchange for arbitration.
Ashcroft Burnham: Please answer the specific question.
Justice Soothsayer: And whether criminal (ie banning) cases would qualify.
Ashcroft Burnham: And do you think that human rights can be waived now?
Claude Desmoulins: My question is, Diderot’s bill allows arbitration in “criminal cases” If, rather than attacking an individual’s plot, the griefer attacked public space, who would be the victim who would have the right to ask for arbitration in sunch an instance?
Diderot Mirabeau: the chancellor?
Patroklus Murakami: good question claude
Diderot Mirabeau gets the feeling he has been put on mute
Patroklus Murakami: i can hear u diderot, not sure who you think has put u on mute?
Moon Adamant: back
Diderot Mirabeau: because I answered “the chancellor or a marshal of the peace” in response to Claude the first time he asked
Diderot Mirabeau: granted it was in between exchanging snide remarks with Ashcroft
Oni Jiutai: Just on a technical point, even if penal sanctions are excluded, surely the State could go into arbitration with a griefer – provided they wanted banishment to be off the table.
Moon Adamant: brb again
Ashcroft Burnham: BRB
Claude Desmoulins: I’d proose an amendment to Diderot’s billl specifying that the Chancellor has the right to seek arbitration on behalf of CDS when there is not an individual victim or victims.
Patroklus Murakami: so, diderot, in your scenario a Marshal of the Peace would be able to agree to go to arbitration with a griefer rather than go to trial with the SC
Diderot Mirabeau: yes I guess it could work that way .. Oni what do you say?
Patroklus Murakami: why on earth woudl we want to do this?
Diderot Mirabeau: hmm well it might not always be out of town people
Oni Jiutai: Legally I think it could.
Patroklus Murakami: i can see arbitration having its uses in commercial or other disputes but not when banishment is under discussion
Oni Jiutai: But I agree with Pat, normally the State probably doesn’t want to arbitrate, if it thinks something like a crime has occurred.
Patroklus Murakami: exactly oni. u don’t seek arbitration with criminals
Oni Jiutai: Arbitration is a negotiation, after all.
Diderot Mirabeau: okay .. well I can see that side of the argument certainly … I guess the situation I am thinking of is some transgression by a citizen that occured in the heat of the moment
Diderot Mirabeau: and in order to heal the community it may be better and less stigmatising if the person on trial has the opportunity to arbitrate peacefully
Diderot Mirabeau: rather than going through the potentially showful and dramatic motions of a court …
Ashcroft Burnham: Why is arbitration more “peaceful” than litigation?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I ask a simple question? Is the RA going to address any more items on the agenda today? 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: there’s no middle ground, no compromise to reach. if someone has been wronged there is a guilty and an innocent party
Ashcroft Burnham: The only difference between the two is who does the judging and who sets the procedures.
Oni Jiutai: Well, that State can decide not to prosecute, and let anyone who is upset try arbitration or whatever.
Diderot Mirabeau: sounds reasonsable Oni
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will we simply ncontinue the philosophical discussion? Albeit an interesting one, I’m afraid I don’t have more time for it today.
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a specific item in which the Dean has interest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, just curious, Claude 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Abolition of the AC is a very interesting one 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if we’ll address this today…
Diderot Mirabeau: well given those arguments I would certainly accept an amendment specifically excluding criminal trials from being processed through arbitration
Oni Jiutai: Ash is right. In the heat of the moment I’m losing the distinction between mediation and arbitration.
Ashcroft Burnham: Instead of amendment, just pass my Bill which already excludes it.
Patroklus Murakami: good point oni. me too
Oni Jiutai: But I still think the State, in criminal stuff, shouldn’t arbitrate.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry power went out
Moon Adamant: i must go in a few minutes
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer Diderot’s framing as I believe it is more comprehensible to the non legal expert.
Moon Adamant: plus we’re almost reaching 2 hours of discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Justice 🙂
Moon Adamant: and wb Justice 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has an UPS at home ? SL never fails due to power loss hehe
Ashcroft Burnham: You do realise, incidentally, that Diderot’s bill doesn’t stop parties to an arbitration bringing a separate case to court on the same subjectmatter of that arbitration if they’re disattisfied with the results?
Oni Jiutai: I think the other question, is does the RA want to allow people to put banishment powers in the hands whoever the parties choose?
Diderot Mirabeau: welcome back into power Justice
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Jon Seattle: wb Justice
Claude Desmoulins: Good point Oni.
Moon Adamant: lol Gwyn, goodness knows it fails on a lot of other stuff 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: So, Diderot’s bill doesn’t actually achieve what it’s supposed to acheive.
Oni Jiutai: I tend to think banishment is something the government should keep for itself. 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: yes, i quite agree with that, Oni. I’m more inclined to support Ashcroft’s bill.
Oni Jiutai: Governement in the widest sense.
Ashcroft Burnham: People can say “let’s arbitrate on this”, do so, reach an agreement, then the party who loses can say “I don’t like this”, and then take it to court.
Ashcroft Burnham: And there’s nothing in Diderot’s bill that stops them.
Oni Jiutai: Although contract law might – but it may be better not to find out.
Diderot Mirabeau: Justive the preceding discussion has come to the conclusion that my proposal could be amended by “disallowing” criminal cases from being processed .. and retain the simpleton language
Claude Desmoulins: Only if the parties agree in advance that appeals are allowed.
Ashcroft Burnham: That’s not what it says.
Oni Jiutai: Criminal cases is too wide – I mean what is a criminal case in our context.
Jon Seattle: I agree with Claude, however, that the language in Diderot’s bill will be more comprehensible. Perhaps we can have the best of both?
Ashcroft Burnham: The Bill only regulates appeals.
Diderot Mirabeau: then propose a friendly amendment Ashcroft and let’s retain the benefit of simpleton language
Ashcroft Burnham: But people might bring a quite separate court case that’s not an appeal.
Ashcroft Burnham: No, I don’t believe that your language can be rescued, so badly drafted is it.
Diderot Mirabeau: he he
Ashcroft Burnham: I’ve written a perfectly good Bill.
Oni Jiutai: A few lindens being ‘stolen’ is criminal – but it may be a misunderstanding that people want to arbitrate.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the joys of compromise 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: There’s no reason to prefer yours over mine, especially since everybody prefers mine in substance.
Diderot Mirabeau: you just failed to communicate its benefits
Justice Soothsayer: I do like Diderot’s style better
Ashcroft Burnham: And Diderot’s bills many failures shows just why amateur drafting is not the way to go.
Patroklus Murakami: : this doesn’t feel well understood enough to me. ‘legislate in haste, repent at leisure’ 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: but Ash wins on substance.
Moon Adamant: you know, that’s what i was talking when i said _compromise_
Ashcroft Burnham: Pat: we can say the same thing about the abolition of the judiciary.
Justice Soothsayer: Maybe they could put their heads together and come up with something specific yet simple.
Claude Desmoulins: back in a minute
Patroklus Murakami: haha! or passage of the JA in the first place 🙂
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice – that’s the point: they’re incompatible objectives.
Diderot Mirabeau: sorry but ashcroft has quite clearly demonstrated his refusal to work constructively toward compromise
Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps we can solicit Oni for constructive amendments
Justice Soothsayer: don’t make the perfect the enemy of the possible
Ashcroft Burnham: As has Diderot by refusing to contemplate my Bill at all, but insisting that his be the basis for any future Act.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’ve invited your amendments quite liberally .. as long as we retain the benefit of simpleton language …
Ashcroft Burnham: I’m not making “the perfect the enemy of the possible”: I am pointing out what is already possible and not. It is not of my making that something cannot simultaneously be simple and precise.
Ashcroft Burnham: So, Diderot, you’re unwilling to compromise on the language, is that right?
Diderot Mirabeau: no you can phrase your amendments as you like and I’ll be happy to suggest rewordings that anyone can understand
Ashcroft Burnham: You already did “suggest rewordings that everybody can understand”, only you failed to appreciate that your “rewordings” changed the substance.
Moon Adamant: good, why don’t you two work together like that? 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: I didn’t fail to appreciate that .. that’s why I am inviting your amendments ….
Diderot Mirabeau: but you prefer to misrepresent my position don’t yhou?
Ashcroft Burnham: Which is precisley why the sort of language that I use is not mere unnecessary loquation.
Justice Soothsayer: maybe we need an arbitrator between these two bills.
Diderot Mirabeau: Oni please … do you think you could do it?
Ashcroft Burnham: Diderot – you’re evidently wholly unwilling to compromise on the language.
Justice Soothsayer: or even a mediator.
Justice Soothsayer: I nominate Oni.
Moon Adamant: lol Justice, i think so and support Oni as a choice 🙂
Oni Jiutai: I’m willing to take a look, but bear in mind that I share Ash’s views on precision. I can attempt to merge them with simplicity, but I’m not promissing anyone will be happy with the result.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s ask Oni to mediate, given the lack of a procedure for such delegation of RA legislative authority.
Justice Soothsayer: The best mediation is one where both sides are slightly unhappy.
Diderot Mirabeau: thanks .. I appreciate that
Patroklus Murakami: but presumably the vote will be taken by the new RA after the election?
Jon Seattle: yes, I support that approach.
Ashcroft Burnham: Justice, the best mediation is where both sides are happy, but that’s rarely possible, so, most of the time, both sides end up slightly unhappy.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we refer these to Oni then?
Moon Adamant: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn likes the concept. Thanks, Oni!
Jon Seattle: yes, please
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Claude Desmoulins: With a mandate to report back to the new RA?
Moon Adamant: thank you very much, Oni 🙂
Oni Jiutai: Okay, I’ll talk with Diderot and Ash before the next RA.
Patroklus Murakami: a sensible way forward 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Oni Jiutai: And probable start of thread in the forums for general commoment.
Claude Desmoulins: we’re at 2 hours
Moon Adamant: i really must go 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye indeed.
Justice Soothsayer: thanks for hanging in there, Moon.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to adjournment?
Moon Adamant: none
Claude Desmoulins: Adjourned
Justice Soothsayer: none
The meeting closed at 5:57 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: January 12, 2007

Meeting on 2007-01-13
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: Again I’m unsure of Pel. So let’s begin.
Moon Adamant: ok
Jon Seattle: How about n squared?
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: what’s teh agenda?
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch both the recorder and the document deliverer.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: You’ll get the agenda and a copy of Oni’s forum post.
Moon Adamant: got it, got it
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any reports?
Moon Adamant: none here
Claude Desmoulins: Any news on the CN official oprning?
Jon Seattle: Would it be possible to deal with the guild bills before entrenchment?
Moon Adamant: well, still to be confirmed date: the 28th
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello 😀
Moon Adamant: hi Gwynnie and hi Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re still doing reports.
Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn. Hi Sudane 🙂
Justice Soothsayer gasps in wonderment at an agenda that does not include the Judiciary Act
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Enjoy it … while you can, Justice 🙂
Jon Seattle: lol justice
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a Guild/Treasurer/EO report?
Gwyneth Llewelyn has some slight reports to make after Sudane…
Sudane Erato: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes.
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane must be busy counting up our many new citizens 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How many citizens?
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My thoughts exactly, Justice!
Patroklus Murakami: yes, what’s the magic number?
Sudane Erato: yes, sadly we did not reach 71
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas.
Claude Desmoulins: Ourluck we’ll stick at 69
Jon Seattle sighs and nods
Sudane Erato: we are at 67 this morning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A very good year, 69 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Patroklus Murakami: 67 was better?
Patroklus Murakami: !
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle laughs, I can see where this meeting is going..
Sudane Erato: two of the esperantists left yesterday
Sudane Erato: so its 67
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh. Just before the elections? 🙁
Sudane Erato: yes, 🙁
Sudane Erato: i can’t represent that any other way, but that they cannot be counted
Patroklus Murakami: ah well, their choice i guess. did we/you decide to do exit interviews so see why ppl choose to leave?
Sudane Erato: as usual, they siad they did not find the time to be here that they had hoped
Sudane Erato: and could not justify the expense
Sudane Erato: btw, that leaves only 3 esperantists
Patroklus Murakami: well, that’s understandable i suppose. i feel the same way about my mainland holdings 🙂
Moon Adamant: really?
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: wow, that fell off quickly
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: ahh… nothing from me, at this time
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should perhaps briefly tell the results of the last SC meeting,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since I haven’t got time to write the full journal
Justice Soothsayer: a summary that’s less than the full 4 hours would be greatly appreciated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least the ones that might be important for the RA members.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll try to do my best, Justice 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Amendment 19 was deemed to be constitutional and is duly ratified,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although the SC would kindly request a clarification from the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which the RA can obviously ignore)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: regarding the assumption of the way the Code of procedures (‘Soothsayer’s Rules’) are to be adopted with the SC sitting as a court
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since constitutionally every branch (SC included) has the right to establish its own procedures,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it is our assumption that the RA wanted to set up a “framework”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessarily a *complete* set of procedures in this case
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that teh SC will have some leeway in adopting a code of procedures based on the spirit of the ‘Soothsayer’s Rules’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If that was not the intention of the RA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or if the SC’s assumptions were wrong in that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’d like a clarification, or probably further clarification.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC has published some procedures for handling impeachment cases
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as its own internal procedures for meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I think these were the only two things that were effectively posted so far 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the deliberations about the many questions regarding the factions, and the elections,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after a lot of thought we thought to adopt NL 5-18 as the guideline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for establishing what factions are ‘valid’, who are the people willing to serve, and who are allowed to rank members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since the Constitution is rather vague on those procedures,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we do have legislation to clarify these (ie. 5-18)
Claude Desmoulins: But the willing to serve deadline is per the constitution earlier than the 5-18 deadline, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, all factions complied with 5-18
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Allegedly, some of the timelines overlapped with the holiday season
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in some cases, I do agree that people did not *strictly* comply with *all* the requirements 😉
Justice Soothsayer: substantial compliance ought to be enough
Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, one must also apply some common sense here. All factions would have been deemed to be in tiny, slight violation of one or two items here or there, if one were to interpret things too strictly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but

Gwyneth Llewelyn: all complied with 5-18
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the option would be having zero factions on the elections, or all of them 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: have factions been disqualifed in some respect in previous elections for not following the constitutional requirements to the letter?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They used to comply *better*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the *only* case that happened was with factions having *less* than 3 members.
Jon Seattle: Welcome Yoge 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah welcome indeed, Yoge 🙂
Yogeswari Padar: thank you!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then we have some slight issues on forum moderation to report
Moon Adamant: namaste Yoge 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC will review its concept of ‘forum moderation’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the sense of probably ‘less’ moderation
Yogeswari Padar: hi moon!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: again, the same concept applies ? everybody, even SC members, might have seen found to violate this or that tiny issue here and there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and instead of enforcing that and basically locking out almost all of our more eager posters,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we adopted a more ‘liberal’ and open-minded approach for now. But… we’ll discuss further 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Finally,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we seem to have ‘inherited’ a pending case from the ‘other’ Judiciary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which needs to be addressed quickly
Patroklus Murakami: indeed. ‘justice delayed…’ and all that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, we might announce a new SC Archivist after the elections (the person selected is currently a candidate, and it would not be very good to announce the job having been filled *during* the elections)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There were also some issues raised about the ethics of having some of the members of the SC who are no members of the RA to support publicly some legislation, and then approve it at the SC level
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is something to be slowly addressed over time…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … as technically the SC should not support ‘policy’. However, the internal RA rules allow *any* citizen (without exclusion) to suggest legislation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But these are *internal procedures* of the RA ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: neither constitutional requirements, or legislation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the issue is open for now 🙂 It’ll be discussed further, I’m sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that’s enough, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we move on to Arbitration. then?
Patroklus Murakami: there was one other issue gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, sure ? please complete it, Pat, my memory is not perfect 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the SC was asked to consider whether, by meeting in the two weeks prior to an election, the RA was acting contrary to ‘constitutional convention’ i.e. an unwritten agreement that other RAs had followed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes. True. That’s important hehe
Patroklus Murakami: and that this was, therefore, unconstitutional
Claude Desmoulins: But there’s a constitutional requirement for fortnightly RA meetings.
Claude Desmoulins: An explicit one
Moon Adamant: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, while the rest is ‘tradition’
Justice Soothsayer: grasping at straws, I suspect
Moon Adamant: seeing that we’re talking about the same period, at least one RA will occur during campaign
Patroklus Murakami: the SC ruled that, given that there is no law or constitutional requirement to suspend the RA during an election campaign, the RA was not behaving unconstitutionally
Claude Desmoulins: This would be a good moment for a procedural report.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, the SC, even after Amendment 19, has not been re-instated in the power of interpeting actions and legislation according to established practice or traditiomn, but just a literal reading of the founding documents ? and most definitely, that requirement was not found to be written *anywhere*
Claude Desmoulins: We’re meeting today before the polls open.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: I do not intend to meet next week *while* they are open.
Claude Desmoulins: Ergo, the next and final meeting of this term will be on the 28th,
Claude Desmoulins: That was all 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Arbitration, anyone?
Justice Soothsayer: Turning to arbitration, it seems that our Arbitration Mediation was a success. Oni did a great job of simplifying Ashcroft?s draft and harmonizing it with Diderot?s proposal.
Jon Seattle: Is this new bill the Miraham bill?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: this arbitration report is Oni’s compromise between the two bills?
Justice Soothsayer: or the DidBurn? bill?
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL “DidBurn”
Claude Desmoulins: Tes
Claude Desmoulins: *yes
Jon Seattle smiles
Claude Desmoulins: I move adoption of tje arbitration bill contained in the Jiutai report.
Justice Soothsayer: have either Diderot or Ashcroft indicated their support of this compromise?
Moon Adamant: good question, justice
Claude Desmoulins: Not that I’m aware.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it should technically be considered a *new* bill by Oni 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I suppose
Claude Desmoulins: He says as much
Moon Adamant: was it posted?
Claude Desmoulins: Yesterday.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is no problem in having three different bills and having the RA pick the one they like best, and reject the others 😀
Claude Desmoulins: It was in response to a specific request from us.
Jon Seattle: Oni’s version seems acceptable as far as I can see.
Justice Soothsayer: It seems to be a nice blend of both, with a simplier style without compromising precision.
Justice Soothsayer: It excludes banishment, but the RA could always come back and add banishment as an option in arbitrations if it chooses to do so.
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll support Oni’s bill as well.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather leave it out for now.
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion?
Justice Soothsayer: OK to vote?
Jon Seattle: none here.

Moon Adamant: none, let’s vote
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: Moon?
Moon Adamant: aye to Jiutai bill
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Jon Seattle: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: The chair votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next
Claude Desmoulins: A resolution requesting wiki mirroring.
Claude Desmoulins looks at the webmaster
Jon Seattle: Do we need legislation for this? It seems to me something the executive should be doing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me read the proposal (beyond what I’ve read on the forum thread)
Claude Desmoulins: I haven’t seen our chancellor in a while.
Claude Desmoulins: It is termed a request.
Claude Desmoulins: Hence its being a resolution not a bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll work with Aliasi on that
Jon Seattle: Okay.
Sudane Erato: why not just move the wiki to our own site?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are some slight technical details
Claude Desmoulins: We may not even need to take any formal action here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to make sure the content is not “lost”
Sudane Erato: sorry for my ignorance about wiki-ism
Claude Desmoulins: Moving the wiki would be an option.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we have space for it?
Claude Desmoulins: at the official site
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “space” is not an issue, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s really exporting the content to a modern tool like MediaWiki?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: .. but well, I see what I can do about it with Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: Tiki is ancient?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I might tell that Leon Ash is willing to help out in redefining the whole “CDS Portal” issue.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes a bit, Claude
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Leon is using the old request for proposals that is posted on the wiki as a starting point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He doesn’t have *much* time, though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (who has? 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but he’s willing to give it a try.
Moon Adamant: ok, cool
Jon Seattle: I propose we handle this informally, and return to it if we find progress has not been made.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: I think that’s fine.
Claude Desmoulins: On to citizen inolvement.
Claude Desmoulins: I pointed out in an email discussion that the RA can already do what this bill sets up.
Claude Desmoulins: Establish committees and commissions.
Moon Adamant: yes, but this bill makes teh RA provide a framework for the Commissions
Moon Adamant: instead of just appointing them in the air
Claude Desmoulins: This bill would effectively strip that power from the LRA. Meaning that every committee would have to be apiece of legislation.
Moon Adamant: so?
Claude Desmoulins: What about adding more details on committee structure to the current procedure.
Moon Adamant: also, this bill allows that any rep can propose a commission
Jon Seattle: I suppose we could also change item 1 to allow either the RA or the LRA to initiate a commission.
Claude Desmoulins: Any rep can propose one now.
Moon Adamant: the current situation implies – or may imply – an assent of the LRA to any such proposal
Moon Adamant: our proposal transforms the process into a more democratic process
Claude Desmoulins: There is also the question of what to do about the procedural requirement of there being some dispensation for each bill.
Justice Soothsayer: dispensation? explain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean the “formal recommendation” at the end of the comission procedures?
Claude Desmoulins: Procedures say we must do something with each submitted bill.
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Claude Desmoulins: In the RA procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec
Patroklus Murakami: this could be useful when, for example, a minority party has the position of LRA and refuses to establish a commission that a majority of RA members want. it would prevent an obstructive LRA, elected on a minority vote, holding up this kind of discussion and citizen involvement
Moon Adamant: indeed Pat
Sudane Erato: the LRA can be from a minority party?”
Moon Adamant: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Moon Adamant: the LRA is technically the first person elected from the faction that has more votes
Claude Desmoulins: The LRA cannot summarily discard any proposed bill. Some grouping of RA members, either committee or the entire, must consider the merits of every bill.
Patroklus Murakami: if the composition of the RA is 2-1-1-1 then the leader of the party with two seats becomes LRA
Claude Desmoulins: A majority vote of the RA can force any item to the floor.
Sudane Erato: i see what you mean
Claude Desmoulins: Can’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: Given the bit I quoted.
Claude Desmoulins: Ubder the bill as propsoed.
Claude Desmoulins: kid awake
Patroklus Murakami: so that would meand that all proposals woudl hve to come as bills if teh LRA chooses to obstruct?
Justice Soothsayer: creation of our last commission was done thru a bill
Jon Seattle: Yes
Moon Adamant: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes, the point of this proposal is to provide a framework so that we don’t have to reinvent the wheel every time
Moon Adamant: we are after all proposing that the creation of commissions be done under a general framework
Moon Adamant: exactly
Jon Seattle: It seems to me, given the change in 1 to allow either the LRA or the RA to create a commission, this bill could be useful.
Patroklus Murakami: i agree jon
Justice Soothsayer: LRA’s agenda setting power does allow for a minority party LRA to place commission-creation bills so far down on the agenda that they may be buried
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: I can go for this if the LRA also has committee creation power
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Justice Soothsayer: Moon, this doesn’t change our internal rules regarding committee creation, does it?
Jon Seattle: Moon, do you agree to the change?
Moon Adamant: Justice hmmm
Moon Adamant: we would like to make sure that there can be no obstruction – other than a democratic repeal by this RA – to a called commission

Moon Adamant: the current situation appears to imply that any call for a commission by any rep will ‘automatically’ be accepted by the LRA
Moon Adamant: which, as you may agree, is an assumption that may prove false
Moon Adamant: and reading back Jon’s question
Moon Adamant: if i read your question well, do you want the bill to specifically mention the LRA
Moon Adamant: i would suggest then ‘any member of the RA’
Jon Seattle: Sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not ‘any member of the RA can decide’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but surely ‘any member of the RA can propose that a comission be formed’
Patroklus Murakami: sorry moon, i’m not clear. ‘any’ member of the RA can decide? surely there needs to be majority support for the decision?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then on 2. ‘The RA will decide…”
Jon Seattle: I would worry a bit about several competing commissios being set up to deal with the same issue.
Gwyneth Llewelyn suggest then: “1. For any proposal in discussion, any member of the RA can propose that a commission be formed to analyse the proposal.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon ? the RA would still need to analyse the suggestions of proposed comissions,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and decide which ones would go ahead, and under which scope (‘remit, responsibilities, lifespan and which powers’)
Moon Adamant: yes sorry Pat
Moon Adamant: so let’s make instead:
Justice Soothsayer: sorry but I have same problem as Claude: family’s up & about and apparently hungry
Moon Adamant: 1. For any proposal in discussion, any member of the RA can call that a commission be formed to analyse the proposal. Such commisions will be voted by the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that Moon’s proposal, for instance, would give things like the SPC some legislative background and strength in the future 🙂
Moon Adamant: yes, that is one of my concerns
Moon Adamant: for all matters, teh SPC was in a sort of void
Jon Seattle: Ah, but that does not deal with Claude’s issue
Jon Seattle: is should be a majority or the LRA’s approval.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the LRA is not really a ‘special office’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: constitutionally speaking, I mean
Moon Adamant: i rather think on the LRA as ‘primus inter pares’
Claude Desmoulins: I would be fine with that, though why deal with this legislatively instead of with internal procedure?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. why should the LRA have more ‘powers’ than the other RA members? The LRA was mostly an ‘administrative’ or ‘procedural’ role.
Claude Desmoulins: But is is in the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Leader of the RA is the head of the faction which receives the highest Borda Count score. In the event of a Borda count tie between two or more factions, the tie will be broken by one (in the event of a two way tie) or more (in the case of a three or more way tie) best of three games of Rock,Paper, Scissors among the faction heads/founders. The games shall be overseen by the dean of the SC, who shall be the custodian of the official city RPS device.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just gives a *title* 😉
Claude Desmoulins: True
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It used to be “Burgermeister” in the olden days.
Moon Adamant: therefore we are discussing really a traditional interpretation of the LRA’s powers
Claude Desmoulins: My concern is that if it takes an RA majority to create a committee, we’ll spend more time debating committees and less debating legislation.
Moon Adamant: why would that be?
Patroklus Murakami: would u want committees to be set up by LRA fiat that don’t have the support of a majority of RA members?
Moon Adamant: a commission is another tool that the RA can invoke
Claude Desmoulins: Because you couldn’t evem ave a commission w/ 3 votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Moon Adamant: hm? Surely commisions, being called by bills, just need a simple majority to pass
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could check up what other legislative bodies in RL do,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I think that it is reasonable to assume that forming a commission, and delegating powers to it,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: should be a decision made by the RA as a *body*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not an individual decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue here is ‘delegating powers’ (and the power to discuss is, indeed, a power on its own 🙂 )
Patroklus Murakami: i’m puzzled claude. u *could* have a commission with 3 votes but not with 2
Claude Desmoulins: But then at least it could be an internal procedure rather than legislatively enshrined.
Moon Adamant: but what is the problem of having it legislatively enshrined?
Claude Desmoulins: You would need three votes to create the commission.
Claude Desmoulins: Because it’s really an internal procedure.
Claude Desmoulins: What if there isn’t a majority to create a commission. How then shall the requirement to do something with every bill be met?
Moon Adamant: but we think that maybe it should be frameworked as a standard way to allow for participation of civil society
Claude Desmoulins: So framework it in the RA procedures if you must.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude, then the RA will not delegate the powers and will need to discuss it at the RA meetings… like usual
Moon Adamant: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah I see your point, Claude. Hmm
Claude Desmoulins: What powers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think the difference here,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is ‘what powers?’ indeed!
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: and EVERYTIME we will be discussing it from scratch, discussing procedures, how many people, etc

Gwyneth Llewelyn: An ‘internal procedure’ should not be able to delegate any powers to, say, non-RA members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes that as well, Moon)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So every committee would work differently, with lots of discussion on how they should be established
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the suggested *legislation*,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA would be able, not only to form comissions with a strong support by the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but all commissions would work essentially in a similar way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since this is *legislation*, not “procedures”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA, within its scope as defined on the Constitution, would be able to delegate some of their powers even on non-citizens willing to participate in the debate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. making the comission proceedings part of the legislative aspect (so to speak) and not merely ‘free-form discussions’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we have the forums for those 🙂 )
Moon Adamant: namely, we should also consider that commissions such as the SPC have powers that belong in teh Executive sphere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, one could argue that comissions could even draw from several sources,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eg. legislative, executive, and Guild (building, financial) powers 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RIght now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is not allowed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even if right now something like that would indeed be ‘called’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: say ? a “committee for constitutional revision”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or “a commitee to study the electoral reform”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they would not really be more than a ‘discussion group’ with a fancy title.
Claude Desmoulins: Has any committe a power other than to make recommendations tothe RA?
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon’s bill proposes a mechanism embodied in the legislation that allows the commissions to be effectively ‘agents’ in the governative aspect
Moon Adamant: SPC?
Moon Adamant: did SPC only make reccomendations to teh rA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it made to the Guild as well 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the Treasury, and the Executive… 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… they did so under no ‘framework’ really
Moon Adamant: btw, i had proposed an amendment to this bill last time it was discussed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just because their recommendations were ‘nice’ and ‘made sense’
Diderot Mirabeau: can I ask a question, please? (and hello all)
Justice Soothsayer: what’s the amendment, Moon?
Jon Seattle: Hello Diderot
Claude Desmoulins: Hello
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hello Diderot)
Moon Adamant: which is not in this text yet – under 2. it should read instead: “2. The RA will decide the remit, responsibilities, lifespan and which powers, if any, it wants to delegate to the commission, *with the exception of the legislative power’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes, Moon
Moon Adamant: hi Diderot .9
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should also be clear that the RA is not ‘forfeiting’ powers
Diderot Mirabeau: will this bill allow for establishing “standing committees of differnt thematic domains” so that he RA could for example choose to have a standing commision on judicial matters, financial matters, cultural matters and stuff .. and let them take the detailed iscussions and exercises of achieving a majority so that when a bill was presented before the RA it was sure to have a majority?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps I could explain again ? when legislation establishes commissions to study an issue,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the comission comes back to the RA with a proposal/recommendation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under Moon’s bill, the RA would *have* to accept them for *discussion*, and would vote upon it
Moon Adamant: Diderot, through this bill, any rep can propose a commission to those effects, yes
Moon Adamant: this is really just a framework bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the difference. The recommendations of a commission do not become “mandatory” by themselves. However, the RA is compelled to at least discuss them, and, if they agree, to vote upon those resolutions.
Claude Desmoulins: They can do that now?
Claude Desmoulins: No?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Now, Claude, they can simply ignore them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and say things like ‘we’re not compelled to listen to you’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘since you have no real responsability delegated to you’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In effect, this did not happen
Moon Adamant: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yet 🙂
Moon Adamant: but it CAN happen
Claude Desmoulins: What’s your objection to allowing the LRA to create one of these frameworked commissions?
Moon Adamant: what is your objection in having any rep calling for a RA vote to allow the creation of a commission?
Gwyneth Llewelyn only objects, from a personal point of view, of giving the LRA some legislative powers that are not implied in the Constitution 😉
Jon Seattle: Well, would the LRA be able to create a commission lacking majority support as it can now? I guess that is the question.
Moon Adamant: i have no objection whatsoever on having the LRA proposing a commission under the terms of this bill – actually, he/she should, in a ‘first between equals’ logic
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, perhaps something that is obvious to me is not obvious to others,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so bear with me for a moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the LRA (or any citizen) creates a discussion group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the RA is willinjg to ‘listen’ to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon’s proposal, however,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: gives the act of creating a commision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather ? *frames* the act of creating a comission
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as a *bill*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so it’s an act ratified by the legislative branch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under that act, certain ‘powers’ may be delegated ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one is the power that the commission will have
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to make sure its recommendations are *heard* at the RA (they cannot be ignored)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although the RA can, effectively, vote to ignore the recommendations!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is something different.
Justice Soothsayer: I have to say that I think this is one issue where Claude & I may disagree. Our experience with the Judiciary Commission has convinced me that RA commissions need the sort of framework that Moon has suggested.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the LRA had the sole power to create commissions
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, Gwyn, thought the ! meant you had finished!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this would mean that the LRA, *on his own*, would be able to introduce legislation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the answer to Claude about ‘why not have the LRA introduce commissions?’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is basically that udner this model proposed by Moon,
Moon Adamant: we should discuss a signal for ‘i’ve finished talking’ 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the LRA would be able to pass a bill on their own
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, like on the old chat days? “over and out”, abbreviated oo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: every member of the RA should get a special “I finished talking gesture”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, giving the LRA the power to pass a bill on their own is a bit contrary to the notion that all bills are approved by a simple majority
Justice Soothsayer: audience memebers, too!
Moon Adamant: oh, i don’t really see your gestures… i have the screen filled with notecards 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ok ? I ‘ll hush now ? I hope I’ve explained myself better 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: as I said earlier, I think this is one issue where Claude & I may disagree. Our experience with the Judiciary Commission has convinced me that RA commissions need the sort of framework that Moon has suggested.
Moon Adamant: indeed
Justice Soothsayer: The RA should more carefully set the charge and timing for commissions.
Claude Desmoulins: What about this concern.
Justice Soothsayer: And even their procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: As we grow and the volume of legislation increases, how can we address it all if it takes an act of legislation in fact to send a bill to committee.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Moon Adamant: you seem to think that to all bills there will be a committee called
Patroklus Murakami: what do mean claude? u want to delegate decision-making power on bills to committees?
Patroklus Murakami: surely the RA needs to retain final decision-making power?
Claude Desmoulins: No
Claude Desmoulins: I agree PAt
Moon Adamant: th sole act of voting the committees should create a balance in that
Patroklus Murakami is confused
Jon Seattle: Also, does this bill stop the RA from setting up RA-only comittees? It seems to talk only about commissions.
Patroklus Murakami: claude, i don’t understand what your objection is now. u’ve lost me
Justice Soothsayer: I don’t see that Moon’s bill eliminates the idea that the RA or the LRA could refer a bill to a committee (either of RA memers, or someone else, as we just did with Oni’s mediation of arbitration)
Diderot Mirabeau: but all the pre-meditative wrangling, negotiation and technical discussion of details can be sorted out in the committees by the parties representatives knowing that they have a mandate from their party and their vote behind them to negotiate so the RA plenary does not get bogged down in technical discussions for two hours
Diderot Mirabeau: (sorry Justice)
Justice Soothsayer: i have 5 minutes left
Moon Adamant: indeed Diderot
Claude Desmoulins: Are we in agreement about that?
Moon Adamant: this legislation calls for a clearer framework, while still maintaining a good versatility
Claude Desmoulins: Justice’s comment about this bill not precluding referral to committee w/o legislative act?
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Yes, this bill does not mention comittees at all. It seems to me that that process would not change.
Claude Desmoulins: Would you take an amendment to state that explicitly:…
Moon Adamant: listens
Claude Desmoulins: “This act sha;ll not be seen to preclude the assignment of bills to committee by the RA or LRA without legislative act”
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Claude Desmoulins: Or something like that?
Moon Adamant: one minute to consider, please
Moon Adamant: you are aware that by proposing that, you are establishing an hierarchy between commitees and commissions,aren’t you?
Moon Adamant: that is – in a sense – commisions are ‘stronger’ because they have been ratified democratically
Justice Soothsayer: Moon, I think that’s what your bill does anyways, because you don’t amend our internal RA procedures
Moon Adamant: well, i have always wanted to look a bit more closely at RA procedures, but never had the time during this term .)
Claude Desmoulins: I’m aware of that. But surely every bill that is referred out doesn’t need a commission.
Justice Soothsayer: I think the next RA should look carefully at the procedures at the outset of the term.
Moon Adamant: we accept that amendment as freely
Gwyneth Llewelyn has looked just now at the RA procedures
Moon Adamant: friendly*
Claude Desmoulins: Can we then vote on the bill, or is there further discussion?
Jon Seattle: Lets vote.
Moon Adamant: ready to vote
Justice Soothsayer: ready to vote
Claude Desmoulins: So the amendment I proposed is the only one on the bill at the moment?
Claude Desmoulins: Is that correct?
Jon Seattle: Yes.
Moon Adamant: also my amendment on not delegating legislative power
Justice Soothsayer: Moon’s earelier amendment on not delegating legislative powers
Jon Seattle: Ah, yes,
Patroklus Murakami: yes, two amendments
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks
Claude Desmoulins: Adamant
Moon Adamant: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Claude Desmoulins: the chair votes aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: We’re at two hours
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we adjourn?
Justice Soothsayer: Yes
Jon Seattle: Yes
Justice Soothsayer: my time is up anyways
Claude Desmoulins: See you after the election.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye everybody 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned
Flyingroc Chung: bye
Moon Adamant: thank you all
Moon Adamant: oh, hi FR 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: you guys ahve been really productive this term
Patroklus Murakami: cheerio
Claude Desmoulins: Yoge, please indicte condent to the
Claude Desmoulins: recorder
Flyingroc Chung: hey moon
Claude Desmoulins: Only 20 bills this time
Claude Desmoulins: There were 28 last term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: hello FR 🙂
Jon Seattle: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: well the JA counts for at least 8
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but one was a mega-bill, Claude 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: but you did get to decide on pretty heavy stuff
The meeting closed at 6:1 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: January 27, 2007

Meeting on 2007-01-27
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Toby Mulligan has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Toby, we’re about to start a meeting. You’re welcome to stay, but are requested not to speak.
Toby Mulligan: thats ok
Claude Desmoulins: All citizens are kindly reminded to please touch the recorder.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
TOPGenosse Brouwer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s begin. I call the meeting to order.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: There is one addition to the agenda.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Cosideration of TOP’s franchulate app will fall after the 5-9 edit bill.
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any reports?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 🙂 Ok.
Moon Adamant: none here Claude, unless that we will have to postpone again the inauguration of CN
Gwyneth Llewelyn reports that she has nothing (official at least) to report.
Claude Desmoulins: Why the delay?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, very good point, Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Sudane is in…
Moon Adamant: today was our appointed date… but everyone we called on it hasn’t even even given us an estimate
Moon Adamant: some haven’t even replied
Moon Adamant: we will keep asking people, and insisting on estimates
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins still wonders if, at some point, we shall hae to cut bait and plan our own event.
Moon Adamant: well, if someone would like to help me and Sudane on this, we’d surely appreciate it
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane says no report.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane asks for a few minutes to join us … so perhaps the estimated members of the RA would like to discuss something on the agenda first, before Sudane is free and available?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought about planning & organising the CN event, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move to 5-9 amendment.
Moon Adamant: mind that we are asking estimates for teh events alone already, having completly given up already on teh chances that someone could indeed also be teh event planner, compile a list of VIPs, send invites, etc
Moon Adamant: as was the original plan
Claude Desmoulins: This is just to clear the old language.
Justice Soothsayer: cleaning out the stables as our (nearly) last official act?
Claude Desmoulins: Or beginning to do so, anyway.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: afk
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on this?
Patroklus Murakami: i thought the JA changed all references? isn’t this redundant?
Moon Adamant: what is NL 5-9?
Claude Desmoulins: It may be.
Justice Soothsayer: only in the constitution, I think
Claude Desmoulins: Group land ownership.
Moon Adamant: no objections, of course
Patroklus Murakami: no, the JA applied to all bills where Neufreistadt or Neualtenburg were mentioned
Moon Adamant: just asking
Patroklus Murakami: but since it doens’ do any harm….
Claude Desmoulins: It’s complex, because in, for example the Marketplatz Zoning Act, Neufreistadt really means NFS, not CDS
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill?
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next TOP’s franchulate app.
Claude Desmoulins: This went out via email. Couldn’t figure how to get it on to a card.
TOPGenosse Brouwer nods
Moon Adamant: uh sporry
Moon Adamant: then must open mail
Moon Adamant: one sec please
Claude Desmoulins: Did all the RA get it?
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d like a copy too if possible please
Claude Desmoulins: I see at least one issue straightaway,
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Did. IM me your email please.
Claude Desmoulins: TOP could you take care of distributing to other intere……thanks.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Anybody else, besides Diderot?
Michel Manen: yes plz top
Sudane Erato: I have it somewheres 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: IM your e-mail to me please.
Claude Desmoulins: TOP, you want to divide this into 8 parcels. Per current rules, it will support at most 4 citizens.
Patroklus Murakami: Just for completeness, on the naming issue. The relevant part of the JA was: “Chapter III – Name and citizenship 10. The title of the Neufreistadt Constitution shall hereafter be, “The Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators”. 11. Any reference in any Act of the Representative Assembly passed before the date on which this Act comes into force to “Neufreistadt” or to ?Neualtenburg? shall be taken to be a reference to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, unless the context, or any duly ratified Act of the Representative Assembly passed after the date on which the Judiciary Act was passed, otherwise so requires.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn nods at Pat
Moon Adamant: TOP, please mail it to me also
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks Pat
TOPGenosse Brouwer: E-mail please, Moon.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Thanks.
Moon Adamant: thanks! 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: got it via email
TOPGenosse Brouwer: E-mail is sent to Diderot, Moon, Michel and Pat.
Claude Desmoulins: Just a moment…
TOPGenosse Brouwer: And e-mail sent to Gwyn as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Can anyone actually get to the text of the franchulate act at the moment?
Sudane Erato: I have it
TOPGenosse Brouwer: If it works: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-index.php?page=NL+5-4
Sudane Erato: oh… sorry
Sudane Erato: i have TOP’s proposal
Claude Desmoulins: My vague recollection is that the Chancellor makes a binding but appealable decision here.
Patroklus Murakami: yup, i’ll cut and paste
Claude Desmoulins: Right?
Patroklus Murakami: Preamble This bill revises and expands Bill 5-3, defining procedures for applications for franchulates, criteria for acceptance, and providing citizenship for the franchulate owners. This bill does not provide for franchulate applications directly by groups as citizenship is granted on an individual basis. This bill, however, doesn’t exclude the possibility that the members of a group join the CDS by each applying individually for franchulates, and – after the processes completed – joining their lands under the Group Ownership Act. A. Definition 1. Franchulates are parcels of mainland land held by an individual that become territories administered by the codes, constitution and TOS of the CDS.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sounds right.
Patroklus Murakami: B. Conditions 2. In order to establish a franchulate, ownership of the parcel will be transferred to the Estate Owner of the CDS. The former parcel owner become leaser of CDS territory land, for which they will pay a monthly fee, before the 21st of each month. 3. The monthly fee will be assessed using one of two options depending on which best serves the CDS and the franchulate: a. A mainland global franchulate m2 rate; b. A LL tier proportion rate 4. The same rate will be applied to all franchulate parcels. 5. The rate calculation is determined by the Executive branch of CDS, then being subjected to approval by the RA. 6. The rate can be changed only when it serves the interests of the CDS and of the franchulate holders. Any change will take effect on the following month. The Executive branch is required to inform the public about any changes to the rate, as well of the current rate at any time. 7. The Executive Branch of the CDS can delay a franchulate application till when/if the Estate
Patroklus Murakami: 7. The Executive Branch of the CDS can delay a franchulate application till when/if the Estate Owner’s tier allowance allows a mutually beneficial arrangement. 8. The RA can determine, through a bill to the effect, that all applicants to a franchulate process deposit an escrow in the Bank of the CDS, the value of which shall be rated per m2 and determined in the same bill. 9. The covenants valid on the private islands of the CDS do not apply to the franchulate parcels, and therefore no previous building or structure present shall be deleted.
Patroklus Murakami: C. Applicability 10. An individual who wishes to establish a franchulate on their mainland parcels must apply to the Executive branch of the CDS for applicability. 11. In this application, the holder of the parcel or parcels must declare: the total area to be franchulated, the group to which it will be assigned, and the charter of the group. 12. Applicability is defined doubly: a. Area criteria: The total area of a franchulate parcel or parcels must not be inferior to the basic unit of land for citizenship in the CDS islands. b. Compliance criteria: the charter of the group must comply to the codes, Constitution and ToS of the CDS.
Claude Desmoulins: So we ned to know what Alias thinks.
Patroklus Murakami: 13. The Executive branch will evaluate each application within 30 days according to the criteria stated above. 14. The decision of the executive may be reversed by the RA if there are doubts about the applicant’s ability to fulfill the requirements. The applicant can appeal any rejection to the courts or the Scientific Council depending on the reasons for rejection.
Claude Desmoulins: *Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, you’re untiring 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: D. Franchulate Process 15. Upon clearance of applicability, the holder of the parcel will deposit an escrow in the bank of the CDS, if the RA has established an escrow requirement. 16. A Franchise License will be notarised with the Notary of the CDS, and this License must contain: identification of the parcel and of the holder, identification of the group to which it is set to, and the charter of that group. Any modifications to the charter or to the group to which the franchulate is set must be approved. 17. The Estate Owner of the CDS, by request of the Executive branch, will proceed to buy the franchulate parcel from its holders and manage it according to current CDS rules.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s long! one more section to go
Sudane Erato: Aliasi has received the proposal… and forwarded it to me for comment
Sudane Erato: and i haven’t done so yet
Claude Desmoulins: There we go. Section 14 says the decision of the Exec may be appealed
Patroklus Murakami: E. Citizenship, Rights and Duties 18. The joining of a mainland parcel to the CDS under the Franchulate process mandates, from its holder, the acceptance, validity and upholding of the laws, constitution and TOS of the CDS in the parcels. 19. All rights and duties of citizenship apply to the citizens holders of franchulates, and no distinction shall be made by the CDS between them and citizens residing in the private islands in the CDS territory. 20. For electoral processes, the citizens holding any franchulate parcel will have the electoral address set in that parcel. If more than one distinct parcel franchulate by same citizen, they must notarise their choice of electoral address in the corresponding Franchise License.
Claude Desmoulins: Ergo, the exec makes the decision, not a recommendation.
Patroklus Murakami: (and all this on a G4 ibook!)
Moon Adamant: yes, that is the spirit of this bill
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: So we tell Aliasi that its’ her call.
Moon Adamant: the RA can step in though
Claude Desmoulins: After the Exec decides,
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Aliasi, has already given her ‘OK’, so there are a few of those points the RA should look at and give their approval of.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (or not)
Moon Adamant: exactly
Claude Desmoulins: Has the exec made a decision?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Yes, it ‘fine’.
Moon Adamant: the thing is
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I hope she let someone know!
Claude Desmoulins: There is the citizenship problem.
Moon Adamant: teh RA should decide only one thing
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I mean, I can paste my chat.log … but ..
Moon Adamant: and that is teh matter of escrow, which this bill calls upon the rA to decide
Sudane Erato: may I ask a question…
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > Yes that’s one of the few things.
Sudane Erato: TOP, could you explain what the basic goal is here?
Claude Desmoulins: I asked her alst night, she said “I told him it looked good – at least as our initial test-case”

TOPGenosse Brouwer: I think it’s an interesting law. I think it’s fascination to have a CDS presence on the mainland, so I want to make use of it. I don’t have any particular goal for the parcel(s) yet. Except a bit of experimentation and enjoying the sunset.
Sudane Erato: ahh… so there is no commercial motivation..?…
Sudane Erato: or any other plan?
Claude Desmoulins: It’s ironic that it’s in Takalo.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Not yet.
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “not yet” is a good answer 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone remember Birka?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, what is Birka, Claude?
Sudane Erato: this is a very small parcel…
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I know a dog called Birka
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL TOP
Michel Manen: lol\
Claude Desmoulins: The protectorate Kendra was going to set up in Takalo.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah of course, Claude!
Patroklus Murakami: is it part of the deal that teh CDS buys the land from the franchulate owner? if so, we need to compare the cost with the purchase of private islands
Sudane Erato: have you dealt with the possibility that tier might be more than if you paid it directly?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
Claude Desmoulins: Which then became Isenland.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat > YES
Patroklus Murakami: this could be an *expensive* way to expand unless we compare costs
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat > Ali won’t name a price, so I made one up and am asking you if it’s oK.
Sudane Erato: I agree with Pat on this
Claude Desmoulins: The costs go down once there’s more than one franchulate.
Sudane Erato: yes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sudane > If you read my email & *.doc you’ll see that I propose to donate tier. Is that acceptable? Ali thinks so.
Claude Desmoulins: There is the cost of the EO becoming premium as well.
Sudane Erato: thats fine… although i did find that confusing
Sudane Erato: but, that only makes my point
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat & SUdane > Yes it’s expensive, I’ll probably loose some money on it, but I want to apply for it nevertheless.
Claude Desmoulins: It doesn’t solve the problem of the EO premium account cost, though.
Sudane Erato: that you would pay more for this land than if you paid directly
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Claude > Premium = ??
Sudane Erato: yes, Claude, also that
Patroklus Murakami: how big is the parcel?
Sudane Erato: it looks like 496
Claude Desmoulins: Jon is inbound.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sudane > How you will own it, and I will be “in charge” –> We’ll talk later about that.
Sudane Erato: kk
Sudane Erato: these are just questions
Sudane Erato: its up to Aliasi
TOPGenosse Brouwer: But the 4 points I wrote about in my e-mail are the things where (imho) the RA gets involved
TOPGenosse Brouwer: The rest is the chancellor & my business 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Escrow and what are the other three

Patroklus Murakami: i think this requires some careful thought. while the first franchulate will always be an ‘experiment’ it will set precedents for the future. i think the RA needs to consider them over more time. to decide it now seems like a bit of a rush. there is no rush, is there?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Price of the land itself (since Chancell. didn’t make a price)
Diderot Mirabeau: what exactly is the benefit for the CDS to do this?
Patroklus Murakami: hi jon 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 3rd is wheter I fulfill all requirements ( = article 14 of law)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: And the last one is : Does RA approve of me donating a tier instead of paying to the Estate Owner.
Claude Desmoulins: Nevertheless, the rate is the Chancellor’s to set. She’s free to consult.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Hi JOn.
Patroklus Murakami: sorry to be a wet blanket top, i like the idea but think it needs time to consider fully
Sudane Erato: what does that mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon, welcome!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Claude > She approves of the fact that I’ll donate tier to soem group. If Exec. sets a certain rate later, that I’ll have to pay : fine.
Sudane Erato: donating tier instead of paying to the estate owner?
Justice Soothsayer: hi Jon
TOPGenosse Brouwer: SUdane > Yes
Diderot Mirabeau: hello Jon .. nice balancing act
TOPGenosse Brouwer: S > I think we can arrange soemthing practical for that.
Jon Seattle: Hi.. I think just half teleported ..
Jon Seattle: I had better relog.
Jon Seattle: this is very strange..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, NFS is behaving strange today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after the meeting is over, I’ll reboot the sim hehe
Moon Adamant: i propose the following:
TOPGenosse Brouwer: So … all in all its: 5 –> Donate tier is OK? 8 –> escrow y/n ? 14 –> full fill allrequirements as in law? 17 –> is my price OK? or negociate anothe price.
Moon Adamant: since we do need a more defnite standing from chancellor in some points
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > Like on what points?
Moon Adamant: i propose that we send it back to her and ask for a report, addressing all the points that the Chancellor is responsible upon
Claude Desmoulins: The only decision we can even make until the Chancellor weighs in officially is whether to have an escrow.
Justice Soothsayer: and a recommendation on whatever issues we need to decide
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > She said “OK, it’s fine” about that, she just forgot to tell Claude or the rest of the RA.
Claude Desmoulins: She told me when I asked, but that seems shy of formal approval.
Moon Adamant: yes, but ‘OK, it’s fine’ is a bit ambiguous in fine detail
Moon Adamant: which, i may remind, we are discussing for 20 minutes already
TOPGenosse Brouwer: “OK, it’s fine” == ALiasi
Patroklus Murakami: i think the RA needs an official communication before it can go ahead. moon is right, it’s ambiguous and it shouldn’t be
Claude Desmoulins: Is there any objection to kicking this back to the Chancellor and letting the new RA tackle the escrow issue?
Sudane Erato: i will confess that as the potential future owner of the franc, it am quite confused by a lot of the details…
Moon Adamant: i am not in the least doubting Top’s word… but for instance she MUST propose a rate
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Can I speak for a moment here?
Sudane Erato: and I think this all needs more study
TOPGenosse Brouwer: That I’m a little disappointed that no one has read my e-mail, that I *did* submit in time.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: SO … It all get’s delayed for 1 or 2 weeks, … because our Chancellor doesn thave time or doesn care
TOPGenosse Brouwer: and because the RA doesnt read emails
Michel Manen: Well TOP, a bill mut be discussed before it is adopted 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sure, SL is a ‘game’ .. but ..
TOPGenosse Brouwer: If the RA read it in advance they could have consulted the chancellor.
Michel Manen: this is not done by e-mail
Patroklus Murakami: but, there’s no rush is there? it can wait a week without any negative consequences surelY?
Claude Desmoulins: I read it. I was just fairly certain that some of these had to wait for the Chancellor. It’s unfortunate that she wasn’t more clear
Claude Desmoulins: clear
Moon Adamant: nevertheless
Moon Adamant: chancellor must define teh rate
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat > No there is no rush.
Claude Desmoulins: We lost Justice
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > Donating tier is unacceptable?
Moon Adamant: and that rate must be part of the discussion, surely
Moon Adamant: i am not saying that it isn’t , top, that’s exec to decide
Sudane Erato: and i don’t understand how donating tier would work
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > She said allright
Claude Desmoulins: I move to table
Michel Manen: since ithis imight be our first case, we should try to ge it right from the first time, so if it takes a bilt longer, as long as you’re not ina rush, there souldn’t be any problems 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer sighs about chancellor’s bad communication ..
Moon Adamant: but the eventual donation of tier should correpond with a defined rate
Moon Adamant: is that teh case? is she defining the rate? and that rate must be set publically too
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > Yes it would be good if a rate would be set.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Moon Adamant: and claude, i second to table
Claude Desmoulins: There’s a motion on the floor to table/refer back to exec.
Claude Desmoulins: Seconded
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of referring back to the Chancellor?
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Jon Seattle: aye
Justice Soothsayer: its not a no, Top, just not a yes yet
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I understand, no problem 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree with justice. Just getting our procedures ironed out.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: By thw way, this is a perfect example of why our legilsative process needs to be improved.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: how so Michel? We are discussing an Executive act
Justice Soothsayer: how so, Michel?
Michel Manen: well. when a bill is introduced
Patroklus Murakami: or perhaps an example of the need for clear communication between govnt branches?
Michel Manen: all heads of all government branches should get togheter
Michel Manen: and discuss it
Michel Manen: and coordiante
Michel Manen: and advise the RA
Michel Manen: in order to make the process smoother
Michel Manen: and the Bill better
Claude Desmoulins: back
Moon Adamant: that’s what we are doing , no? by referring back an Exec matter to the Executive
Michel Manen: and avoid miscommuications nand delays
Claude Desmoulins: Next
Claude Desmoulins: Expanson planning again
Michel Manen: no not really… reaffering back is not joint sicussion 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: This is like NL 4-9 with a few changes
Moon Adamant: well, Chancellor isn’t present
Moon Adamant: we’d surely discuss it together if so
Claude Desmoulins: No criteria this time
Claude Desmoulins: The screening group can recommend no proposals be pursued or one or more than one
Claude Desmoulins: There is also the non binding citizen Borda count.
Jon Seattle: I have several things to say.
Claude Desmoulins: A bit like the CSDF planning festival proposal.
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead Jon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I’ll listen to Jon :)=
Justice Soothsayer listens to Jon
Gwyneth Llewelyn watches another spike as a new person has entered NFS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm this sim will *definitely* get a reboot after our meeting!!
Jon Seattle: Did that get through? Network problems here.
Michel Manen: pat is in a higher atate of being 🙂
Sudane Erato: no Jon
Moon Adamant: nothing passed, Jon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No…
Sudane Erato: not to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the same thing, Jon
Jon Seattle: Sorry.. darn wireless.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone just entered NFS, is happilly loading textures, and this is bringing our poor and overstressed sim to its knees.
Jon Seattle: I was saying that we still lack any plan of how our future continent will fit together.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ity’s very likely not the fault of your wireless, Jon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now
Jon Seattle: Without that we will be at a disadvantage for exansion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn just adds that Jon is quite right!!!!
Moon Adamant: indeed
Sudane Erato: yes… agreed
TOPGenosse Brouwer silently nods
Jon Seattle: We will be unable to fit our sims together and plan the over layout.. roads will not connect, water will be flying this way and that
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: global warming 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Planning for Sustainability”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooops
Jon Seattle: The second is that we still need to work out how to organize builders to plan and build new sims.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I shouldn’t say these things in front of Michel with a light mood ? sorry, Michel 🙂
Michel Manen: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Jon!
Sudane Erato: yes, also agreed
Claude Desmoulins: Can’t processes run in parallel?
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that the SPC was successful. We should plan not just on a theme but on continuting the organization that can see this process through.
Claude Desmoulins: No final decision to do anythin will happen until April 15
Moon Adamant: well, the plan should be there first of all
Michel Manen: has a cogent argument been made why territorial uity is necessary in our case?
Justice Soothsayer: I’d certainly favor an expansion proposal that fit our two sims together with a new one.
Moon Adamant: hm, Michel, you have a bill in agenda already for that
Jon Seattle: M. Manen, it has been made many times.
Moon Adamant: so that is indeed a concern for our citizens, you can also follow the forum discussions
Moon Adamant: besides, a regional plan saves time and work
Moon Adamant: in seaming the sims together, also – as in the bill we are discussing – it gives the planners of a sim an useful base to work upon
Claude Desmoulins: Also while I agree we need some larger plan, I like the idea of having some flexibility to expand organically.
Moon Adamant: since they will already have the territorial base – in terms of topography and road connections
Patroklus Murakami notes that the bills reforming the institutions to develop new sims has been sitting on the agenda for months…. and are still low down the agenda again today
Claude Desmoulins: Could we not get a big plan drafted in 60 days, by thetime the proposals come in?
Moon Adamant: but the plan doesn’t forbid organic expansion
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Jon Seattle: Claude, having a plan does not preclude someone chaning that plan in the future. What we are talking about is less planning for each sim as in planning how the sims fit together in a region. There are great advantages to that.
Moon Adamant: on the contrary, it assures that the territory is coherent
Michel Manen: well thats the thing. so we want terrirotial coherence for differentely-themeds sims?
Patroklus Murakami: does anyone actually have a problem with *planning* our expansion? i missed part of the debate
Moon Adamant: instead of that mainland – and some continents too – feel that you just have land thrown in together
Michel Manen: no of ocurse onr Pat
Moon Adamant: Michel, by planning territory you can have buffer sims between the themed sims
Justice Soothsayer: did Michel just put a curse on Pat?
Michel Manen: no i said that of course no one objects to planning future sim development
Moon Adamant: then no objections then 🙂
Patroklus Murakami is mildly amused by justice’s comment
Justice Soothsayer: I think there is a consensus that we should expand, right? And also a consensus that we should do so in a way that joins the sims?
Moon Adamant: btw, will have to leave in 30 minutes?
Michel Manen: i’m not opposed to territorial unity – im simply not persuaded yet of the advantages of it
Claude Desmoulins: All this bill does is start a process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (even Linden Lab plans their continents…. hehe)
Moon Adamant: i agree we must expand and i definetly insist on expanding in a logic of territorial coherence
Claude Desmoulins: Moon and Jon, are you arguing that we need a master plan before we ask people to start working on proposals?
Patroklus Murakami: this is a very poor bill
Patroklus Murakami: why is so much power givne to the chancellor to decide everything?
Claude Desmoulins listens to Pat
Moon Adamant: well, yes… otherwise people may be working in the air
Claude Desmoulins: All the Chancellor does is name a committee which makes a recommendation.
Jon Seattle: Yes, justice. My other issue is with the organization. We need to have some degree of organization amoung builders who will execute any new building effort. Right now, after more than two months, we have non.
Jon Seattle: *none.
Patroklus Murakami: what a byzantine undemocratic process to follow
Michel Manen: well isnt this connected with the New Guild?
Claude Desmoulins notes that a process quite similar to the proposed one worked quite well last time.
Michel Manen: i agree, Pat. not very transaprent 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The issue is that the new Guild is bigger than just building.
Patroklus Murakami: no, the RA evaluated proposals. an elected body
Claude Desmoulins: And it will again.
Patroklus Murakami: this one gives an obscene amount of decision-making power to … whoever the chancellor picks
Justice Soothsayer rummages thru the files to find the previous expansion act
Michel Manen: yes of course Claude – but until we get that right, planning will be ad hoc ad difficult
Jon Seattle: Claude, the new guild is designed to be bigger than just building.. but that does not mean you should run ahead without it being estabished. Claude, is this an attempt to substitute the office of the Chancellor for the new Guild?
Claude Desmoulins: “On April 15, the screening panel shall submit to the RA a report, recommending which proposal(s) (if any) ought be built. ”
Patroklus Murakami: the screeing panel is the problem claude. undemocratic and untransparent
Jon Seattle: I move to table this until we have discussed and voted on the new guild proposals.
Moon Adamant: methinks that we should be discussing new guild priorly… that way we could resolve this
Justice Soothsayer: Jon, I don’t think we need to tie the two together. The discussions on both can occur in parallel
Michel Manen: yrs – but the guild must be finalised first
Jon Seattle: Justice, you would have a choice than. Ether 1. add region planning to this bill, to be done by the Chancelor
Jon Seattle: or 2.
Jon Seattle: run ahead with this without region planning.
Jon Seattle: It seems to me that neither choice is a good one.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s another issue I have. If the New Guild is really an NGO, how much decision making power oughtit have since it is not democratically accountable
Moon Adamant: i can’t agree with a proposal for expansion that does not concern with a regional plan
Justice Soothsayer: how about or 3. insist that proposals include how they fit in a regional plan
Michel Manen: if we want terrirotial unification- expanding without regioanl planning makes no sense
Claude Desmoulins: So who gets to write this regional plan?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Justice, this new proposal would then require people to actually do two submissions: one for the regional plan, another for the third sim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a possibility!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More work for each team applying, but…
Claude Desmoulins: Interesting.
Michel Manen: well…. a visio of a regioal pland and hoe a tird sim would fit in, yres
Jon Seattle: Justice, 3. means that we will have a regional plan prepared for a single sim and without the process being run by the exective.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: iRL, normally, these two issues are done separately.
Justice Soothsayer: or just simply to explain how the 3d sim woudld fit in context with existing ones
Jon Seattle: *with
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Regional planning allows more creativity for a 3rd sim … but also brings some extra risks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “regional planning” is usually a function of government, or government-sponsored entities; then, local things are given to the private sector to bid for, included into a “master plan”
Gwyneth Llewelyn is pretty sure she doesn’t know the proper names for that
Moon Adamant: indeed gwyneth
Justice Soothsayer: I’d just hate to see us getting bogged down in establishing some sort of regional planning commission before moving on expansion; I think we are primed for expansion now, not 6 months from now.
Michel Manen: public-private partnerships.. lol
Jon Seattle: Justice, how long will regional planning take?
Moon Adamant: otherwise you’d have the builders iRL always planning for skyscraper allowance to maximize their profits
TOPGenosse Brouwer agrees with Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn has to agree with Justice, just by looking at the shortening list of available plots…
Moon Adamant: or allowing themselves to build inside protected landscape, etc
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t object to a regional plan but who gets to write it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… unplanned expansion on a larger scale… is a risk. We already had a LOT of discussion just with *two unconnected sims*
Justice Soothsayer: see, that’s the problem, Jon, it could take a long time to obtain consensus on any sort of long-term regional plan, but someone could come up with a plan for a 3d connected sim relatively soon.
Jon Seattle: If we had the organizational framework the regional planning process could be completed very quickly.
Moon Adamant: well, Claude… you now have our Citizens’ Participation Bill running 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: And I dont’ want to sit on our hands for a month and 1/2 waiting for it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice: always a pragmatic 🙂 hehe
Justice Soothsayer: IT seems to take us a very long time to set up frameworks, though.
Claude Desmoulins: Would you prefer to make the screening commission one of those?
Sudane Erato: I don’t see how the urgency for a new sim outweighs the need for an overall plan…
Sudane Erato: what really is the urgency for a new sim?
Michel Manen: indeed
Claude Desmoulins: I’d very much like, once a framework emerges, for us to have sim proposals to put into it
Claude Desmoulins: Rather than staring those from scratch post framework.
Claude Desmoulins: *starting
Michel Manen: well we can work on both concurrently
Claude Desmoulins: It’s not urgent.
Moon Adamant: no, you’re thinking the other way around
Moon Adamant: you have the framewaork FIRST, and the new sims are born upon it
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: it doesn’t stop people from thinking on sim-themes already
Claude Desmoulins: But I figure actual purchase is autumn atthe earliest.
Michel Manen: but the ideas and plans for hte new sims can start being gneated now
Moon Adamant: and it’s obvious, for instance, that if a sim is built between NFS and CN, it will have to connect both with a slope and road
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Claude Desmoulins: Yes Michel
Moon Adamant: so, that is a base already for preliminar planning
Jon Seattle: Indeed you do. One aspect of rushing ahead with a bill like this, with little planning, is that we miss potential efficencies. You make the whole thing more expensive for all of us.
Claude Desmoulins: If we wait until the plan is complete before starting to think about individual sims…
Claude Desmoulins: …we wait a very long time.
Moon Adamant: but Claude
Moon Adamant: imagine this situation
Sudane Erato: i don’t see the problem with the wwait
Moon Adamant: someone proposes a great sim idea for a moutain 500-m tall
Jon Seattle: Claude, the answer to that is to do the needed planning quickly and then move ahead with more sims.
Moon Adamant: where do you place it now?
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: You still haven’t indicated who will produce the regional plan.
Michel Manen: Moon… we can decide on theme, on vocation, on types of new citizens we wih to attract, on public buildings etc.. once we have the framwerok we can fit in all thses pieces accorodingly
TOPGenosse Brouwer: What about a minimal regional plan, that sims will have to fit into?
Moon Adamant: well, the prhaps that is an useful discussion now
Moon Adamant: and exactly, michel
Claude Desmoulins: How quickly could such a regional plan be puttogether.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Patroklus Murakami: remember the five ps: ‘planning prevents piss-poor performance’ 🙂
Jon Seattle: Claude, I propose that we found the new Guild, open to all citizens, and have it lead the process with full public particiption.
Michel Manen: well…. we need to have at least some semblance of public consultation on this
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hahah
Moon Adamant: and top, regional plan is minimal… it’s a topographic plan with a minimal road network and water provision

Claude Desmoulins: How will this group be publically accountable?
Moon Adamant: lol pat… we shoudl have a tshirt on that
Jon Seattle: Fully accountable, and will welcome everyone.
Claude Desmoulins: By what means?
Moon Adamant: well, if it is fully open to public, then is it immediately public accountable 🙂
Jon Seattle: And how will it be less accountable than the executive office?
Michel Manen: public hearings reports back to the RA, RA votes and decides
Moon Adamant: everyone can join and check 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Rather than calling this a new guild…
Claude Desmoulins: What about establishing a planning commission.
Michel Manen: a permament one?
Claude Desmoulins: I was thinking more along the lines of an ad hoc for now per the citize participation act
Jon Seattle: Because we need to have everyone involved with that as a structured process, supported by reserch and knowledge. And the political arena is not the right place to do research. Also it politicizes the process.
Michel Manen: well… everything we do is politics… .we cant depoliticse it 🙂
Jon Seattle: Claude, do you want to have a DPU plan or a CSDF plan instead of a community plan?
Jon Seattle: Colonia Nova was a community plan, and much stronger as a result.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well, in a sense, Neufreistadt was that as well 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: No, Jon
Jon Seattle: Indeed it was.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but just by a coincidence 😉
Claude Desmoulins: As long as the commission doesn’t have more than recommending authority, I’m fine with an open model
Michel Manen: indeed
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s a substitute to my own bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees that these things should be always validated by the RA
Moon Adamant: so the RA will vote and approve the territorial plan?
Michel Manen: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Moon, I would also think that…
Moon Adamant: i can agree with that
Patroklus Murakami: yes, the RA should have the final decision
Claude Desmoulins: 1. The RA establishes a Planning commission
Moon Adamant: in fact… in all eventual processes the rA would have to vote the plan
Claude Desmoulins: ..chaired by (who?)
Michel Manen: Mon?
Claude Desmoulins: tasked with drafting a master plan for multi sim expansion.
Claude Desmoulins: Needs an RA chair and Moon is going off.
Claude Desmoulins: Due back to the RA by Feb 28
Michel Manen: why an RA chair? could be an expert
Claude Desmoulins: All the new RA is here but Publius
Claude Desmoulins: Read the Citizen involvement act
Jon Seattle: Can a commission last across sessions of the RA?
Moon Adamant: well, in the framework of the Cit Part Bill, a RA member must chair it
Michel Manen: well we can modify that. its not written in stone, if we decide its better oterhwise
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t see why not,since the commission won’t decide anything.
Claude Desmoulins: Just recommend
Michel Manen: yes
Michel Manen: exacrlty
Justice Soothsayer: the next RA could abolish it if they want

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, propose one chair, and vote on it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Indeed
Michel Manen: i for one think it should be an expert
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the next RA can either vote a new chair, or vote to keep the appointed one (by default)
Claude Desmoulins: Changing the law if necessary
Michel Manen: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Since this is my substitute
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put Pat’s name in.
Patroklus Murakami: what!?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: I nominate Moon
Michel Manen: second
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear
Jon Seattle: yea!
Gwyneth Llewelyn can only clap 🙂
Sudane Erato: but I’m not an RA member
Patroklus Murakami applauds moon
Claude Desmoulins: Moon’s not on RA. She can’t chairpast Feb 1 unless we amend citizen involvement.
Moon Adamant: er… i see the ‘voluteering others’ tradition is being upheld
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can still clap, Sudane dear 🙂
Michel Manen: s\what matters is who is hte best person
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I’d clap for Moon too!
Michel Manen: we an always amend the aCt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, for the sake of expediency, I’ll be silent 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Or there;s nothing in the present act
Claude Desmoulins: preventing the RA chair from naming a co-chair
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Moon Adamant: well… i would join the commission anyway – i am ok to pass the chair to other person after Feb the 1st
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude ? that’s very clever 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: True
Gwyneth Llewelyn feels encouraged by the amount of consensus here 🙂
Michel Manen: smiles
Claude Desmoulins: So Moon then, withthe understanding that the chair position would be handed off to someone on the new RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So she has a week to do her best, LOL
Michel Manen: provided the Act does not change
Moon Adamant: lol
Claude Desmoulins: At least as “the chair”
Jon Seattle: Claude, might be depending on the decision of the new RA
Moon Adamant: well, it makes sense that way
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Michel Manen: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does, it’s not “pushing” the next RA to accept anything
Claude Desmoulins: So to summarize what’s on the floor
Claude Desmoulins: Regional Planning Commission – Moon to chair- directed to present a regional plan to RA by 28 Feb
Michel Manen: a draft regiona lpaln
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t recal the exact part of the Commissions Act but i think youi need to define the remit quite carefully and duration of the Commission
Claude Desmoulins: for RA approval
Moon Adamant: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Duration is to Feb28
Moon Adamant: Pat is right
Justice Soothsayer: “2. The RA will decide the remit, responsibilities, lifespan and which powers, if any, it wants to delegate to the commission, with the exception of legislative powers. ”
Claude Desmoulins: remit is —
Michel Manen: scope
Patroklus Murakami: ty justice 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: To draft a multi sim expansion plan, consisting of a topographic map, road plan and water plan.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not bad.
Claude Desmoulins: Other thoughts on scope?
Moon Adamant: ok, that’s it essentially
Patroklus Murakami: very good claude. remit=scope surely?
Jon Seattle: Sounds right.
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Other thoghts on the bill on the floor?
Michel Manen: yes – human resource distribution -what kind of new citizens do wewish to attract
Claude Desmoulins: Or are we ready to vote?
Patroklus Murakami: no michel, that’s not what we’re trying to do here
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need that for a topo map, or is that later when we do themes, etc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ? will this be on th master plan, Michel? Or done on a sim-by-sim basis?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: MM > Is that relevant for the regional masterplan?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Claude, yes, my thoughts exactly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Moon Adamant: hmmm, that i would say is not in the scope of the plan
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re all in sync!!
Michel Manen: ok
Michel Manen: smiles
Justice Soothsayer: really more of a land use plan
Jon Seattle: There is some need to look at elevations, but not a detailed topo map of each sim.
Claude Desmoulins: I call the question on the bill as substituted
Moon Adamant: though i think it’s important that that be discussed in parallel
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Jon Seattle: this is the commission?
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Moon Adamant is a bit lost too
Justice Soothsayer briefly considers but then discards suggesting that the plan include a limit on the number of lawyer-citizens
Moon Adamant: ahahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shhh Justice! That’s discrimination!!!!
Jon Seattle: lol, justice
Jon Seattle: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn waves the UDHR
Claude Desmoulins: Planning Commission – Moon – topo map – feb 28 etc.
Claude Desmoulins: That one.
Jon Seattle: votes aye
Moon Adamant: aye
Moon Adamant: sorry, reading back
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Referenda are tied to the constituional proposals ai know are coming
Michel Manen: smiles
Claude Desmoulins: Sim unification is not necessary because of what we just passed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: also there were a lot of technical issues with Sim Unification
Claude Desmoulins: Guild is too big to tackle this morning and will probably need one of those commissions 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: you could have tackled it at one of the RA sessions over the last few months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the No entry Lines Elimination Act?
Patroklus Murakami: while it’s been sat at the bottom of the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: are you going to sit on this for another six months claude?
Jon Seattle: agrees with Pat
Claude Desmoulins: My sense is that there isn’t a big no entry line problem to solve
Michel Manen: yes pat….. we al know why 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: indeed
Claude Desmoulins wonders what Michel means
Patroklus Murakami: so guild and AC abolition bills carry over to the next RA session?
Patroklus Murakami wonders how long it’s possible to avoid discussing something…..
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude, it’s the very old “privacy vs. freedom” issue. More like a philosophical problem
Justice Soothsayer: hiya FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All countries in the world sooner or later will address that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh lol Pat ? mostly, they had to face the ire of the voters on the next term’s elections!
Patroklus Murakami: then it will have to be resubmitted 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: My preference would be to let No Entry lines drop and let someone resubmit if there are actually entry line problems
Sudane Erato: I’ve never encountered a problem
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Didn’t the prof’s shed have one? (WHich is gone now)
Claude Desmoulins: So why legislate and step on citizens perogatives
Michel Manen: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A few had, yes ? and even “push guns” and so
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. He found a way to meet his needs w/o it w/o legislation being necessary.
Sudane Erato: well, “Push” is now limited on the sim
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to tabling?
Justice Soothsayer: no
Moon Adamant: no
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: In closing….
Michel Manen: already? smiles
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to offer my thanks to Moon, Jon, and Pel for their service on the RA this term.
Sudane Erato: Yay!!!
Moon Adamant: oh, may i request one thing too?
Claude Desmoulins: Any last words from our departing members?
Moon Adamant: er
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “bye, and thanks for all the fish”? 🙂
Moon Adamant: thanks all the RA colleagues, it was a tough term
Claude Desmoulins thinks it was “So long,…”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, indeed, sorry
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Moon Adamant: but it was a very important one
Gwyneth Llewelyn is an expert at misquoting things 🙂
Jon Seattle: Yes, I do want to say I am very dissaponted that our Guild proposals sat without action or even discussion at the end of the agenda since mid-november.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not really typing, although SL thinks I am
Justice Soothsayer: “thanks for the memories”?
Michel Manen: lol
Claude Desmoulins: With that. This meeting and the Fifth RA are adjourned,
Justice Soothsayer: move we adjourn sine die (SINE DIE – Lat. The final adjournment of a legislative session, without adjourning to a specific time or date; Adjournment without definitely fixing a day for reconvening; literally “adjournment without a day.” Usually used to connote the final adjournment of a session of Congress or State Legislature.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, that
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: should we have a Last Meeting party? 🙂
Moon Adamant: oh
The meeting closed at 6:18 Linden time.

Permalink.

6th Representative Assembly (17)

RA Meeting: February 04, 2007

Meeting on 2007-02-04
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Are we all inside?
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Need a chair Delia?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is one “mici Ah” on the sim somewhere…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, welcome all to the Office Affirmation Act 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just going to give a notecard to the new RA members…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and get rid of the sword!!!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, much better!
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry about that, I’m beating world records in lag today hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it’s a bit redundant,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to thank the new RA members first in their willingness to serve.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, congratulate them once more for winning their seats 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Finally, to thank all citizens for keeping this democratic government of us alive ? by voting and paticipating in the CDS.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One of our citizens, Rudy Ruml (sadly a bit away due to his illness), once wrote that a “solid democracy”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: needs to have at least 2 elections with good participation,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to be classified as “democratic”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re on our 6th term now. I think this says something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like the previous ones, although they seemed to be ages ago,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I expect we’re still “young” and learning about what works and what doesn’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might have an interesting term ? as several changes will happen, both inside the CDS, and perhaps even outside of it: new groups also trying democratic participation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re the Ancient Ones here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “wise ones” ? who perhaps sometimes made mistakes, but who learned from them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and still manage to go along with the CDS. Setting, hopefully, an example.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish the new RA members a great 6th term 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… I’ve given the RA members an “office affirmation”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the benefit of the audience, two paragraphs as an explanation:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state where freedom of religious choice is embodied in our Constitution, through one of its Founding Documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Some religions actually forbid taking oaths, and some of the RA members are non-religious, so the following words will be empty of any mentioning of supranatural entities. However, anyone so willing, may add the words “So help me God” or any other entity at the end, if they wish so. They can also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined. ”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is just to clarify why each member might, in turn, say something slightly different, according to their personal convictions 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we start with Claude first?
Claude Desmoulins: I, Claude Desmoulins, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice next…. (we’re doing it on alphabetical order)
Justice Soothsayer: I, Justice Soothsayer, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Justice! Now Michel, please….
Michel Manen: I, Michel Manen, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help me God.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Michel!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next in turn is Patroklus…
Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And finally Publius…
Publius Crabgrass: I, Publius Crabgrass, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Publius 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Applause, please 🙂 We have now our RA members 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: bravo bravo !!!
Moon Adamant applauds
Sudane Erato: yaya!
Patroklus Murakami breaks into applause
Jon Seattle: Yea!
Gwyneth Llewelyn sits down now 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: A small reminder before I proceed.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we are taking a transcipt, please touch the black box to my right to indicate consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rudeen Edo has indicated consent to be recorded.
TOPGenosse Brouwer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Delia Lake has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: As I sat down to put together this address, I thought of the question “Where are we?”
Claude Desmoulins: Even the question is harder than it looks.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re at 246722.6, 249788.1, 178.7 .
Claude Desmoulins: We’re in the Neufreistadt (New) Rathaus. How many here remember the old one?
Claude Desmoulins: We’re in Western Canada, the Central US, Metro London and Portugal.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re on a server somewhere near San Francisco, California.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s a lot of places to be all at once.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s not a bad way to answer the question in a broader sense either.
Claude Desmoulins: Six months ago, we knew, the thirty or so of us who were citizens as of August 1 2006, where we were. We had just parted ways with (or broken free from, depending on your opinion) this community’s founders. It was a messy separation, and one that some saw coming, even if they didn’t want to admit it.
Claude Desmoulins: We all knew, roughly, where we wanted to go. We wanted to grow, in space and citizens. We had just changed our name to the “Confederation of Democratic Simulators”.
Claude Desmoulins: A lot of folk chuckled at that. Thirty-five people on one sim calling themselves a confederation took some chutzpah.
Claude Desmoulins: Lo and behold, six months later the term has some substance to it. We’re not Dreamland, but two simulators is still two simulators. We even have our first mainland expansion in development.
Claude Desmoulins: We also managed to double our population. This, too, was new for us. Growth, when it happened, had been slow. Could we grow this fast and maintain our sense of community? Would we keep going in the same direction?
Claude Desmoulins: By and large we’ve managed quite well. We’re still here; we’re financially stable; and debates, though often vigorous, are mostly civil.
Claude Desmoulins: The question is no longer “Can virtual democracy survive?” We’ve shown that it can. The new question is,
Claude Desmoulins: “What’s the new question?”
Claude Desmoulins: Is it “How shall we create a legal system?”
Claude Desmoulins: That was certainly the front runner for the title last term.
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe it’s “How do we create a vibrant community of builders and artisans?”, or “How do we keep from drowning in red tape?”
Claude Desmoulins: If we don’t like those, there are lots of old ones like “What shall we do with the SC?” to keep us busy. There were many structural questions we thought about last term, but didn’t answer.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s not necessarily a bad thing. Making drastic changes in the way our little virtual state works is not something to be done lightly.
Claude Desmoulins: Even so, there comes a time to make choices. This body is in a unique position to tackle the tough questions of where we will turn our energies and what sort of place we will grow to be.
Claude Desmoulins: Its members represent four factions, more than had ever existed at one time prior to about a month ago.
Claude Desmoulins: It is our task to work together as representives of the growing diversity in our community.
Claude Desmoulins: It is our task to tackle the future of the Guild and SC.
Claude Desmoulins: It is our task to craft a judicial system in which all of our citizens and the rest of SL can have confidence.
Claude Desmoulins: It is our task to manage continued growth.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s a lot of tasks.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll need _everyone’s_ help to get them done.
Claude Desmoulins: Here is a very different place than it was six months ago. We stretch across two sims in SL and 16 timezones in the real world. The days of everyone knowing everyone are passing. I fully expect this to be the last RA with fewer than nine members.
Claude Desmoulins: We must find new ways of doing things, and we must ,regarless of our differences, disagreements, and debates, work together.
Claude Desmoulins: Thank You.
Sudane Erato: bravo!!
Patroklus Murakami claps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bravo indeed 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay!
Justice Soothsayer cheers
Publius Crabgrass: /clpa
Patroklus Murakami: well said
Moon Adamant applauds
Jon Seattle: yea!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Please don’t forget to touch the recoder 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Now a couple of announcements.
Claude Desmoulins: *recorder
Gwyneth Llewelyn touches twice and gets a complain from the recorder.
Claude Desmoulins: We of the RA have made a decision to keep the weekly in-woeld meeting to an hour.
Claude Desmoulins: If you’re counting down , we have 20 minutes left today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Accordingly, I have asked to create a private forum, parallel to what the SC does with forum moderations.
Claude Desmoulins: Current RA procedures allow reference to seven day discussion and vote. They do not specify the mechanism for this discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d also like to make a request to those presenting reports to the Assembly to submit those reports on notecard 24 hours in advance of the meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: Then we can use in world time for questions.
Claude Desmoulins: If you’ll touch the document box to my left, you’ll get an agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: Our first order of business is a matter related to the regional planning comission.
Claude Desmoulins: The Citizen Involvement Act stipulates that, while any citizen may participatem commission chairs be RA members.
Claude Desmoulins: Moon, appointed to chair the planning commission, has left the RA,
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a current member willing to replace her?
Michel Manen: I would like to submit an amendment to the CIA, to the effect that any Citizen with special skills and experience in the field could become chair if approved by the RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Moon, you wrote the bill, what was the original thought behind requiring an RA chair?
Moon Adamant: oh, basically
Moon Adamant: seeing that these issues would be orginated in RA discussion
Moon Adamant: to keep the link to RA, so as to ease reports, etc
Claude Desmoulins: Has any of that changed?
Moon Adamant: changed how, pardon?
Claude Desmoulins: I guess that was more of a general question,
Justice Soothsayer: I think having an RA member chair makes sense, keeps the link between RA and Commission, and establishes that these commissions are primarily designed to help the RA
Michel Manen: Well, the Chair would report directly to the RA, so the reasons Moon invokes would be met.
Justice Soothsayer: If Pat is willing, I’d nominate him for the job.
Moon Adamant: yes indeed Justice
Justice Soothsayer: and when I was co=chair with Moon, she did all the heavy lifting, so I know Pat will have good help. 😉
Michel Manen: I believe professional qualifications should trump political office in this case.
Claude Desmoulins: I wonder if the expertise language is ambiguous Who decides and evaluates special skills, etc.
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be happy to do it. i think it’s important to maintain the link between the RA and this commission. moon has broad shoulders (and wings) which should help
Moon Adamant: lol
Publius Crabgrass: lol
Moon Adamant: i’ll be happy to work with anyone the RA appoints 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: From what I’ve read of the CIA, I agree that these should be commissions with RA chairs.
Publius Crabgrass: Anyone with special expertise or interest is welcome to help, as I understand it.
Claude Desmoulins: Since the question of the chair was on the floor, we’ll take that then vote on Michel’s amendment.

Michel Manen: So Pat, you will be SC Member, RA Member, and Commisison Chair? Even if you’re on leave from the SC, that;s quite a cumulation of functionos.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of appointing Pat to replace Moon as chair?
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Patroklus Murakami: how can we vote on michel’s amendment? it hasn’t been submitted as per our procedures
Publius Crabgrass: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Michel Manen: abstain
Patroklus Murakami: abstain
Claude Desmoulins: Pat has raised a point of order, with which the chair agrees.
Claude Desmoulins: The motion to appont pat carries
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: congrats, or condolences, Pat, as the case may be
Moon Adamant: lol
Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes indeed, Justice 😉
Publius Crabgrass chuckles
Moon Adamant: i will be calling you briefly on that Pat
Patroklus Murakami: i suspect it’s the latter
Claude Desmoulins: Next. Chancellor Permanence,
Michel Manen: congratulations, Pat. 🙂
Moon Adamant: and now… i must apologize to everyone
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion
Moon Adamant: but i must be off
Justice Soothsayer: goodnight Moon
Moon Adamant: congratulations again to everyone… and good work
Claude Desmoulins: We have about five minutes left,
Patroklus Murakami: ok moon, goodnight 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Good night
Moon Adamant: see you all soon .)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: bye Moon
Jon Seattle: Goodnight Moon 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye Moon 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Moon
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, permanent or not, don’t we need to appoint a Chancellor since Aliasi’s term expired at the end of the last session?
Claude Desmoulins: The application period is open for 10 days
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll appoint one next week
Publius Crabgrass: wouldnt it make sense for the person(s) applying to know whether it is a permanent job?
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that this was also posted on the website 😉
Claude Desmoulins: The job isn’t permanent
Claude Desmoulins: The office is
Publius Crabgrass: right
Publius Crabgrass: I might suggest that the person who gets the job keeps it until his/her successor is apppointed, so we won’t have future 10-day gaps at the beginning of each term.
Claude Desmoulins: Settling the executive question would allow us to move on to AC reform or abolition.
Claude Desmoulins: I believe the amendment on the floor does that.
Publius Crabgrass reads it again
Claude Desmoulins: Are we ready to vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, seems to clarify it…
Publius Crabgrass: yes, agree, and we can vote
Patroklus Murakami: i have a suggestion. it shd say “All references to ‘Neufreistadt-CDS’ or ‘Neufreistadt’ shall be changed to CDS
Patroklus Murakami: *the CDS
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as friendly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone not ready to vote?
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing none. All in favor?
Patroklus Murakami: ready
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Michel Manen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Claude Desmoulins: We have reached our hour,
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to try to look at 6-1 on the private forum?
Claude Desmoulins: or put it next week after we elect a Chancellor?
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, which one is 6-1? There’s no embedded notecard
Claude Desmoulins: Kill Bill
Patroklus Murakami: i think it needs discussion
Claude Desmoulins: from Publius
Justice Soothsayer: ah, OK, it’s in there
Claude Desmoulins: Do we do that discussion on the forum or next week here?
TOPGenosse Brouwer mumbles from audience: Thanks SP for not including the franchulate act in ‘Kill Bill’, very polite 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: forum discussion is ok with me
Claude Desmoulins: Pat, Michel, Justice?
Justice Soothsayer: I’m willing to try the forums discussion option
Patroklus Murakami: depends on how the forum discussion goes 🙂 we may still need to discuss it here
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s refer 6-1 to forums then.
Publius Crabgrass: OK
Patroklus Murakami: if we haven’t reached a consensus
Claude Desmoulins: Can constitutional revision wait until next week?
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Publius Crabgrass: yes
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Publius requested it as a discussion item only.
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: The chair moves adjournment
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Patroklus Murakami: no
Publius Crabgrass: none
Justice Soothsayer: no
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 13:07 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 11, 2007

Meeting on 2007-02-11
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we’re all here, let’s begin.
Claude Desmoulins: Pat, please don’t forget to post a planning commission report.
Patroklus Murakami: will do
Claude Desmoulins: Since we’re on a tight schedule I don’t want to take in world time unless we need to.
Claude Desmoulins: First –Chancellor
Claude Desmoulins: As far as I know, the incumbent is the only candidate.
Claude Desmoulins: Has anyone else made themselves known to you?
Publius Crabgrass: None
Justice Soothsayer: Nope
Patroklus Murakami: no
Claude Desmoulins: Before we vote I want to raise an iissue.
Michel Manen: no
Claude Desmoulins: The constitution requires the Chancellor to attend one RA meeting a month.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi has indicated she is unavailable during the RA’s regular meeting times.
Claude Desmoulins: So, do we look at altering the reporting requirement (changing it to something like, the chancellor will make regular reports to the RA), or something else?
Patroklus Murakami: we could hold a monthly meeting at a different time to enable the chancellor to givve her report
Michel Manen: well, i think it is quite important for the Chancellor to particiapte in at least some of the RA’s meetings
Justice Soothsayer: since we established we’re going to try to do more business per the forums, maybe “attendance” might not be the right term?
Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s important that we hold the chancellor to account
Michel Manen: 🙂
Moon Adamant: hello all 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon 🙂
Michel Manen: hello moon
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, but does that account have to be via a synchronous in world meeting?
Sudane Erato: hey Moon
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Moon Adamant hugs Jon :))
Michel Manen: I think so, yes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hi Moon
Claude Desmoulins: If so, we have to look at alternate scheduling (shudders)
Moon Adamant: hi hi 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: well, that *is* what it says in the constitution so… yes
Justice Soothsayer: or meetings when not all 5 are present
Claude Desmoulins: If there were another candidate ,we could consider that in our choice of chancellor, but there isn’t
Claude Desmoulins: I suppose we can elect Aliasi, then sound her out about when she is available and try to set up at least a monthly meeting with her.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that workable?
Patroklus Murakami: sounds good to me
Publius Crabgrass: OK
Justice Soothsayer: sounds fine with me
Michel Manen: yes
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of reelecting Aliasi as Chancellor…
Michel Manen: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Publius Crabgrass: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Michel Manen: ok this has a wiff of Eastern Europe lol
Patroklus Murakami: really michel? why?
Claude Desmoulins: Next, back to 6-1
Michel Manen: just kiding
Michel Manen: one candidate unanimous vote
Claude Desmoulins: The forum were quiet on this.
Michel Manen: i was joking 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: yes, I’d like to speak to this a bit, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: To the extent I could sense a consensus …after Publius..
Claude Desmoulins: Can we keep to 10 min here?
Publius Crabgrass: I appreciate what you’ve done to start a “code in force” set of the bills on the wiki
Publius Crabgrass: that takes much of the steam out of Kill Bill, but it shouldn’t be the sort of thing you would have to do all by yourself.
Publius Crabgrass: sorry, 10 mins OK with me
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like some input on how we might organize it.
Publius Crabgrass: I was thinking we might consider some sort of Legislative REview Commission
Publius Crabgrass: get folks like Oni and Beathan to help, which could also be charged with trying to, er, simplify the language of our Constitution.
Publius Crabgrass: to make the Constitution and our Code more easily accessible and understodd
Publius Crabgrass: *understood
Patroklus Murakami: that’s a different proposal publius, isn’t it? what about the Kill Bill? are you still proposing that we vote on it?
Publius Crabgrass: I’d like to hear from the rest of us to see if that makes sense
Publius Crabgrass: I haven’t drafted anything formally, Pat, but yes, it would be a substitute for 6-1.
Patroklus Murakami: may I?
Publius Crabgrass yields to the distinguished Pat
Patroklus Murakami: i think we need to proceed on the Kill Bill initiative as publius has agreed with claude, via reorganisation of our sites content
Patroklus Murakami: but it’s not rocket science, it doesn’t need a commission to do that. just a couple of volunteers
Michel Manen: it depends what “to do that” imples 🙂
Michel Manen: if it involves rewording the constitution…
Patroklus Murakami: on the broader issue of constitutional simplification, i’d like to see a separate proposal on that. if it was just about making the language clearer, and not changing our institutions, i’d be broadly in support of that
Justice Soothsayer: yes, it seems to me that identifying what laws are actually in force is a good thing, but could involve making some legislative determinations of what should and shouldn’t be considered “in force”.
Claude Desmoulins: What if we appoint Publius to head up a reorganization effort, with the goal of bringing a draft for legislative reorganization back here in … how long?
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather do the constitution separately.
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: michel, i’m talking about the kill bill proposal, i.e that we identify which laws are ‘in force’ and then either repeal or regorganise the others. no constl changes
Patroklus Murakami: we have it, don’t we? it’s in the kill bill proposal
Michel Manen: thats fine 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: thats fine with me Claude, but I don’t want to do it all by myself either!
Claude Desmoulins: Publius, you’d just have to chair.
Claude Desmoulins: How about this for a substitute….
Patroklus Murakami: do we all have access to make changes on the wiki? why not let publius reorganise the content and then we can shout if we don’t like it. the changes can always be undone that way and there’s less bureaucracy
Publius Crabgrass: claude and I have access to the wiki, i think
Claude Desmoulins: Pubiius shall chair a commission on legislative reorganization. It shall by date X return to the RA with a proposal for legislative reorganization, including repeal of obsolete or superceded acts, as it deems appropriate. It shall not consider the text of the constitution.
Michel Manen: good
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi can give whoever else needs it access
Claude Desmoulins: I would be fine to let the commission such as it is post the draft versions of their work to the wiki, as long as they were marked as such
Patroklus Murakami: seems fairly bureaucratic to me claude. how many ppl want to get involved in a commission on reorganising content on the wiki!
Claude Desmoulins: I do think this body ought to sign off when it’s done.
Claude Desmoulins: Time
Claude Desmoulins: I’m happy either way.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we kick this back to forums?
Publius Crabgrass: I’m OK with Claude’s proposal
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with u claude on RA sign off
Michel Manen: if its simple reorganisation im for keeping it as simple as posible
Michel Manen: but yes ill go along
Claude Desmoulins: The commission doesn’t need to be esp. formal
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to vote onthe substitute? and what’s the deadline?
Publius Crabgrass: It would probably take at least a couple of weeks
Publius Crabgrass: given the pace of things so far
Claude Desmoulins: If you think you can get it done it 2, can we shoot for the 25th?
Publius Crabgrass: how about the week after that?
Michel Manen: yes
Michel Manen: gives you felxibility
Claude Desmoulins: What’s that date?
Publius Crabgrass: 4 MArch 2007
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take March 4 as a friendly.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we vote on the substitution.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Michel Manen: aye
Publius Crabgrass: OK
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Publius Crabgrass: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: now on passage of 6-1 as substituteds..
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Publius Crabgrass votes yes
Michel Manen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Claude Desmoulins: next budget
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane gets the floor first.
Sudane Erato: I have presemnted the budget in 2 parts
Sudane Erato: first is a conservative projection of revenue, followed by the committed costs
Sudane Erato: I believe this will leave us with 199,000 available for “discretionary ” spending
Sudane Erato: second part…
Sudane Erato: I have made some very rough suggestions regarding discretionary spending
Sudane Erato: but I feel it is important that those items be dterermind by this body… rrather than by me
Sudane Erato: so,… that ‘s my presentation… a framework for decision
Claude Desmoulins: The notecard says $L122k discretionary. Where did the other $L77k come from?
Sudane Erato: the 122 is the total of my very preliminary suggestions
Sudane Erato: the amount *available* is 199
Claude Desmoulins: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: Other comments and questions on the budget?
Michel Manen: so 77.000 would be truly the discretionary part
Michel Manen: if we go ahead with your suggestions
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, a couple of questions?
Sudane Erato: well, as you can see… its all discretionary
Sudane Erato: sure!
Patroklus Murakami: the 77k would be surplus
Justice Soothsayer: This budget includes repayment of our loans for CN?
Sudane Erato: yes Pat
Sudane Erato: yes it does, in the committed part…
Sudane Erato: the expense item of our repayment is the interest on the laon
Justice Soothsayer: But doesn’t include line items for further expansion yet, right?
Sudane Erato: the principal comes from the cash on hand, which is not properly part of a budget
Sudane Erato: thats correct
Sudane Erato: for instance
Sudane Erato: if you wanted such a item,
Sudane Erato: I would suggest that a “fund” be established
Sudane Erato: into which some regular amount of revenues were placed
Sudane Erato: on the other hand…
Sudane Erato: the funding of CN was accomplished without such a fund
Sudane Erato: so that obviously is a different way to do it
Justice Soothsayer: I think we might all appreciate your advice on which is the better way to finance expansion
Sudane Erato: well, personally, i like the idea of a slowly expanding balance sheet… meaning…
Sudane Erato: that we consistently run a ssmall profit
Sudane Erato: then..
Sudane Erato: when the time comes to expand
Sudane Erato: we seek funding such as we did this time
Sudane Erato: I think that process was a huge success
Sudane Erato: as it displayed the high confidence that others have in the integrity of our system
Justice Soothsayer: thanks, i agree
Sudane Erato: a repaet of that would not be harmful
Michel Manen: indeed 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: so, we could establish an ‘expansion fund’ which we contribute to regularly and then top up with loans as needed as sudane suggests
Sudane Erato: yes.
Sudane Erato: that would work
Patroklus Murakami: sounds like a good idea to me 🙂
Michel Manen: when do you think we might actually be able to proceed with the 3 sim, from a financial point of view, if we adopt this approach?
Sudane Erato: i am a very bid advocate of going slowly
Patroklus Murakami: i have one question on the discretionary spend. do we need 6k for a ‘Judiciary’ position?
Sudane Erato: so my suggestion would be one year from when we initiated the CN planning
Claude Desmoulins: Now that we’re looking at specific proposals, could we bounce this to forums? Though Even if we took all the discretionary and put it toward a new sim, it would only pay 20% of the purchase.
Sudane Erato: the fees are up to this body
Michel Manen: i just want to have an idea of Sudanes reasoing on this
Sudane Erato: ??
Sudane Erato: sorry, on what?
Michel Manen: the timeline i mean
Sudane Erato: oh…
Publius Crabgrass: A budget is our statement of priorities. I think including at least some contribution towards expansion makes sense.
Sudane Erato: well, as a financial person… I perhaps err on the side of stability
Sudane Erato: so I will always be dragging my heels on expansion
Claude Desmoulins: Can we refer to forums so we can look at the rest of the agenda?
Justice Soothsayer: what’s the deadline for passing a budget, Claude?
Patroklus Murakami: 7 day vote?
Claude Desmoulins: End of the month
Sudane Erato: mind you… the current month is within this budget
Sudane Erato: no harm in that…
Sudane Erato: only i make the comment
Claude Desmoulins: New budgets start 1 March and 1 September
Sudane Erato: ahh…
Sudane Erato: thats not the assumption I have worked on
Sudane Erato: perhaps I am wrrong
Claude Desmoulins: I’m fairly sure that was the intent, so the incoming RA would have a month to get the budget together,
Sudane Erato: i see…
Claude Desmoulins: Timew to check the transcripts 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, does not change much
Claude Desmoulins: Is therean objection to referring the budget discussion to forums?
Michel Manen: nay
Patroklus Murakami: no objection
Justice Soothsayer: no, but we should be sure to pass one by the end of the month
Claude Desmoulins: Indeed.
Claude Desmoulins: Next — Guild abolition
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: well
Publius Crabgrass: a technical point, I think the Article #s may be off; repleaing Article II would now eliminate the Chancellor!
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Pat, did you read my forum comments?
Patroklus Murakami: now that the executive has been made a permanent feature of our constitutional setup, the remaining need for the Guild (as was) has passed. the time is right to abolish the guild as a part of the govnt and reestablish a new guild as a body for creativity and training
Patroklus Murakami: yes claude. the reordering of numbers i’d take as a friendly (ty for th reminder publius :))
Claude Desmoulins: The other question I had was givingthe SC a fiscal veto.
Claude Desmoulins: The Chancellor already has veto power broader than the AC’s
Claude Desmoulins: Doesn’t that cover it?
Michel Manen: I dont think it should be purely an NGO- it should be fitted in our structure of governance, even if not as formally as the original one. And certainly not under the RA’s jurisdiction, to have its administraative members removed at will.
Justice Soothsayer: Pat, the PCA and the bill that follows are companion pieces, right? Once we abolish the “old” guild, why does the RA need to charter a “new” one – esp. when it is already chartering itself?
Moon Adamant: Action!
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do one thing at a time
Claude Desmoulins: The Repeal amendment is on the floor.
Michel Manen: i dont think we can vote on one before we know what we can replace it with
Justice Soothsayer: Right, but the two are interrlated.
Michel Manen: indeed justice
Patroklus Murakami: claude, your point on the financial veto was that it was fine for this to go to the SC? am i right
Claude Desmoulins: I’d argue the Guild as governmental branch has been replaced by the chancellor
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t see why it needs to.
Claude Desmoulins: The veto the AC has is a superceded by the Chancellor’s
Michel Manen: we can show more creativy that having just governmental branches and private organisations, no?
Claude Desmoulins: five minutes
Patroklus Murakami: there is a problem with handing the AC veto on finance to the Chancellor. the chancellor is, after all, ‘selected’ by the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Butthe veto structure is the same. 2/3 to override.
Patroklus Murakami: it would make more sense to put that veto along with the other veto powers that the SC holds
Claude Desmoulins: It’s more clear to me now.
Moon Adamant: indeed, after all the SC could easily hold an exchequer
Michel Manen: I;m having trouble with an unelected body vetioing our budget
Claude Desmoulins: Me, too
Moon Adamant: and was the Guildmeister elected?
Publius Crabgrass: I have some concerns about that as well
Claude Desmoulins: But i understand the desire forthe veto to be independent.
Patroklus Murakami: why michel? they can veto our legisltion after all! is it a general concern about the unelected SC or specific to this question?
Michel Manen: i know that Pat as an SC member seems advantages in it, but i dont- the budget is the key function of the RA.
Michel Manen: it should not be averrdiden by the SC
Jon Seattle: The point really is that there is a need for an independant auditor. Both the RA and the Exec are very involved in the process. The SC is very careful, but it allows a third voice to make sure the numbers add up.
Patroklus Murakami: cheap shot michel. could u answer the question please?
Michel Manen: i agree jon
Michel Manen: i vote vote aye on an independent auditor
Jon Seattle: I do not recommend more than three branches however.
Jon Seattle: Historically three branches have served very well in the US government.
Michel Manen: its not a cheap shot Pat. Is the problem of cumulative mandates
Publius Crabgrass: is the SC the appropriate body to check excessive spending by the RA?
Patroklus Murakami: stop obfuscating. do u have a problem with the unelected SC veto generally or only on this issue michel? could u answer that qn pls?
Michel Manen: On th budgete issue only.
Claude Desmoulins: Our hour is up. We shall have to efer this to forums as well.
Claude Desmoulins: *refer
Patroklus Murakami: ty
Patroklus Murakami: well, we must debate the principle further on the forums
Publius Crabgrass: indeed
Michel Manen: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Unless there is strenuous objection….
Michel Manen: but we need a timeline
Claude Desmoulins: ……we are adjourned until next week.
The meeting closed at 13:01 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 18, 2007

Meeting on 2007-02-18
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s begin
Claude Desmoulins: Budget.
Patroklus Murakami: why no discussion on traffice, events, anzere infohub as requested?
Michel Manen: wew have a deadline for the budget i think
Patroklus Murakami: we can discuss the budget first of course michel
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’t see it , and didn’t get notice in world. Also budget has to be done by the end of the month.
Patroklus Murakami: and should
Patroklus Murakami: could we add it to the end if we get time?
Michel Manen: ah you meant the agenda pat.. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Justice Soothsayer: might be helpful to have that discussion w Ali present too
Patroklus Murakami: yes michel, that ‘s right. ty claude 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: As always don’t forget to touch the recorder.
Sudane Erato: on the budget
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: I would suggest raising the promo budget from 20 to 50,000
Sudane Erato: we seriously need a promotion effort
Sudane Erato: and we may have in the works an event for the opening of CN
Moon Adamant: hello all 🙂
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Patroklus Murakami agrees with sudande on that point …
Michel Manen: hi
Sudane Erato: hi Moon 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hi Moon
Moon Adamant hugs Jon
Moon Adamant: hi hi 🙂
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass: I’ve been convinced following our meeting that expansion can be financed outside the budget, so I don’t think we need a separate line item for it.
Sudane Erato: i agree
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: fair enough 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: should we take Sudane’s suggestion as a friendly amendment?
Sudane Erato: well… I will remind folks
Sudane Erato: that the discretionary section
Sudane Erato: was not intended as a “final” bill
Sudane Erato: only a suggestion
Sudane Erato: so, its not really an ammendment
Claude Desmoulins: It wouldn’t hurt to leave funds on the table for unanticipated circumstances or initiatives,
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with claude on that
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: a reasonable reserve
Publius Crabgrass: good point Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Even with the promotion increase, that leaves 40K some odd as a rainy day fund.
Sudane Erato: Claude, yes… its mostly a matter of having the authorization to spend such monies
Sudane Erato: when the need may arise
Michel Manen: and what will we do with it if not spent at the end of our term?
Sudane Erato: it adds to our reserve
Michel Manen: fine
Michel Manen: that should be stipulated
Sudane Erato: the fact of a reserve i feel is very healthy
Claude Desmoulins: I think it is.
Claude Desmoulins: We passed a reserve bill in RA 4.
Sudane Erato: ahhh… yes
Sudane Erato: that was a “minimum”
Michel Manen: no i mean unused funds should go into the resrve fund
Sudane Erato: but I din’t think that the remainder of a reserve needs to be mandated
Sudane Erato: yes, they would be… just by their existence
Sudane Erato: the real question is
Sudane Erato: the authorization to spend money
Sudane Erato: not specifically authorized in the budget
Michel Manen: a majority of th RA?
Sudane Erato: kind of the reverse of having a reserve…
Sudane Erato: being able to spend it
Claude Desmoulins: I presume additional expenditures would be done by legislative act.
Sudane Erato: yes
Michel Manen: indeeed
Patroklus Murakami: yes, budget additions
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: some kind of simple system
Sudane Erato: I would say to have that, rather than to have a legislated reserve
Sudane Erato: beyond what we have already
Sudane Erato: but thats another bill
Sudane Erato: I would suggest that this bill be ammended as to its effective dtaes
Sudane Erato: since my draft is wrong on that
Justice Soothsayer: March 1?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: thru Aug 31
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a motion on the floor?
Patroklus Murakami: i move we approve the budget as amended
Michel Manen: Second
Publius Crabgrass: second
Publius Crabgrass: well, third, then. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Just to be clear, the amendments are the dates and the increas of promotion to $L50K?
Claude Desmoulins: *increase
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Michel Manen: aye
Claude Desmoulins: discussion?
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor of approval….
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Michel Manen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Claude Desmoulins votes aye
Sudane Erato: thank you everyone
Claude Desmoulins: Next. AC abolition
Claude Desmoulins: Pat has submitted a modified proposal.
Michel Manen: I suggest we cannot adopt this until we know what we replace the financial veto with
Patroklus Murakami: i disagree. can i say why?
Michel Manen: sure
Claude Desmoulins: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: the financial veto *does* get held. by the Executive branch
Patroklus Murakami: so the RAs budget policy and financial accountability is to the Exec
Michel Manen: No, I do not agree.
Patroklus Murakami: why do u not agree? u donn’t agree that is the case? or that it should be the case?
Michel Manen: That this should be the case
Michel Manen: or that this is necessarily the case if wew abolish the AC
Claude Desmoulins: But Michel, as I understood it, the AG you propose couldn’t block a budget, just issue a report on it.
Michel Manen: exactly
Patroklus Murakami: well, on the latter point your are factually incorrect. the Chancellor *already* has a financial veto
Michel Manen: the ultimate responsibility would rest with us at election time
Michel Manen: that is the key function of the RA
Michel Manen: but
Patroklus Murakami: so what point are you making michel?
Michel Manen: the independent AG would make persuadive duggestions
Michel Manen: whoch we would ignore at our peril
Justice Soothsayer: the Chancellor’s veto is somewhat weakened by the fact that she must look to the RA for reappointment.
Michel Manen: so effectively giving us the choice whetherto follow the Ag’s recommendations aor not, and bearing untimate responsibility for our decisions in front of the votres
Patroklus Murakami: this is a bit at a tangent. the bill is about AC abolition, not the finanncial veto
Michel Manen: \well
Michel Manen: the two are interconnected
Kyjarat Yates: how r u
Patroklus Murakami: we need to remove a vestigial remnant of our government now there is no need for it
Michel Manen: technically the AC now has a financial veto
Claude Desmoulins: I think the AG bill could b de-linked
Michel Manen: if we remove the AG, there is no control over the RA’s budget powers at all
Patroklus Murakami: what is the alternative to passing this? maintaining the current situation where only 3 citizens can be in the AC?
Michel Manen: no
Patroklus Murakami: michel, there is no AG to remove
Michel Manen: deciding what to do regarding budget oversight
Patroklus Murakami: and why haven’t you drafted a proposal for us to consider?
Michel Manen: we discussed this in the forums.. i am happy to do so if i feel we are reacing a common position on it
Publius Crabgrass: the Chancellor’s veto may be a weak one, but its enough for me. I agree w Pat about removing vestigal branches of govt.
Patroklus Murakami: i think your AG proposal is a good idea. but we need to see a proposal to judge how it would work in practice
Michel Manen: Sudane? your opinion?
Claude Desmoulins: Since the AG has now explicit power, the RA could ignore it if it was in place. Therefore why not proceed with what Pat’s put forward today and consider the AG as a separate proposal.
Sudane Erato: i have no opinion on the constitutional side…
Michel Manen: no on the budget oversight side
Patroklus Murakami: i adapted this proposal because of objections about the financial veto going to the SC!
Sudane Erato: I am strongly in favor of an oversight or auditing function being put in place
Patroklus Murakami: *we* adapted, i should say 🙂
Michel Manen: if we have an agreement to what sudane just said i will go along with pats bill
Sudane Erato: i will strongly agrue for that
Sudane Erato: as long needed
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with what sudane has said but would need to see a proposal to decide on
Michel Manen: and i will draft a bill to that effect foe the next RA meeting
Publius Crabgrass: i quite agree about need for an auditor, but wonder if we have the depth in our talent pool
Claude Desmoulins: I think that’s a good idea.
Claude Desmoulins: I now call the question on the proposed amendment.
Sudane Erato: hehe… well, bookkeeping need not be rocket science 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor…?
Michel Manen: aye.. on the understanding theat the budget oversight issue will be dealth with as a matter of prioirty
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Justice Soothsayer voites Aye
Claude Desmoulins votes aye
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: *votes
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like 10 minutes on new guild and ten on Anzere etc. then adjourn.
Claude Desmoulins: Pat and I are both out of town next weekend.
Claude Desmoulins: Could we hold the next meeting on the 4th of March?
Michel Manen: yes
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Publius Crabgrass: works for me
Patroklus Murakami: (not together i hasten to add 🙂
Michel Manen: smiles
Moon Adamant: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: ok by me too
Publius Crabgrass: not that there would be anything wrong with that, Pat 😉
Claude Desmoulins: *out of our respective towns on entirely separate travel events.
Claude Desmoulins: New guild
Patroklus Murakami: of course not, nothing wrong tiwht that at all 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: I like that the New Guild is regular legislation, not constitutional. Seems far more appropriate given the scope of its charge.
Jon Seattle: I agree.
Patroklus Murakami: ty publius
Patroklus Murakami: well, we’ve had discussion on the forums on this bill recently and for some time previously
Patroklus Murakami: i hope that people’s questions have been answered. but am happy to deal iwth any that are remaining
Claude Desmoulins: I had questions about expansion planning.
Michel Manen: my main issue is that it will be entirely non-governmental.. i think the guildmaster should be more involved in our deicsion-making process than this warrants
Sudane Erato: is there in fact a Guildmaster?
Patroklus Murakami: well the RA does have a degree of oversight michel so it’s not entirely private
Jon Seattle: Not as such in this proposal.
Moon Adamant: hmm, there’s faculty and board
Sudane Erato: there seems no need for one
Jon Seattle: There is a faculty which might get involved in providing advice.
Sudane Erato: only for a spokesperson
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree with Sudane on that.
Patroklus Murakami: claude, i’m not sure i understand your point abouut expansion planning. do u think the New Guild should take on that role? or are you concerned that it should not?
Justice Soothsayer: nothing prohibits any RA member from getting involved in the new Guild
Claude Desmoulins: Quote: 1. To organize, plan, and execute the construction of new simulator regions, extending CDS territory. In his explanation of this, Jon made two points that concern me greatly First, in describing the process, he indicated that architectural models were required before an expansion or redevelopment proposal could be considered. Jon points out, rightly, that without builders on board, whatever it is won’t be built. However, under this model, someone with an idea, or even a plan, but no model builds, can’t get their proposal even considered. Thus the builders, by choosing which proposals to build or not build models for, would have control over not only what proposals are built, but which are even discussed. Second, I’m unclear whether the new guild’s control over projects is merely de facto (if they don’t want to build it, it doesn’t get built) or whether a proposal requires some sort of formal approval by this NGO before it can become reality.
Patroklus Murakami: aah, ‘builder power’ 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Do my questions make sense?
Patroklus Murakami: i think you’re overstating the case claude
Jon Seattle: Let me adress the first.
Patroklus Murakami listens to jon
Michel Manen: i was not talking about oversight as such. I was talking about direct input from a responsible Guild official into our deliberative process.
Jon Seattle: The process is set up to allow development of proposals over a period of time. Its is not an all or nothing system. eventually models will be needed (actually they are suggested rather than required)
Jon Seattle: but someone who is a builder can start the process and indeed get votes.
Claude Desmoulins: I was more concerned about the extent to which the process is open to non builders.
Jon Seattle: Say someone, I think Diderot mentioned a nature sim, draw those plans up on paper.
Jon Seattle: (and uploaded them as textures 🙂 )
Jon Seattle: A poster session would be sufficent to start the process. Claude are you worried that somehow non-builders wouldbe intimidated by the fact that the process is being organized by the guild?
Claude Desmoulins: No, I was concerned that ,were models required, a non builder wouldn’t have access to the process.
Patroklus Murakami: but claude, think of the counter-factual. imagine that we choose a design (by a non-builder) that no builders in the CDS *want* to build. how are we going to make it happen? we can’t force people to work on prjects that don’t inspire them and we can’t afford to contract the work out
Jon Seattle: Models, I recommend, should be made before we finalize the process. However the modeler need not be the proposer.

Claude Desmoulins: I feel better about that now.
Michel Manen: i agree
Claude Desmoulins: And my second question?
Jon Seattle: One sec. I have the flu, so may be moving slowly 🙂
Jon Seattle: Approval by the guild in our proposal, means approval by the
Jon Seattle: population.
Jon Seattle: Let me talk about what this woud mean.
Jon Seattle: A proposal that won the competition for votes,
Jon Seattle: would be the Guld’s proposal submitted to the RA. Or we may provide more than one.
Dalen Attenborough: BYE ALL
Jon Seattle: The RA could decide to ask the proposer and the guild for more information, or even reject the proposal. At least as we now have this set up.
Claude Desmoulins: Our ten minutes are about up here.
Michel Manen: I would like to address the issue of direct input from a responsible Guild official into our deliberative process, just as we have Sudane’s input on budget issues…
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we kick this to forums so we hava a few minutes for Paqt’s other item?
Jon Seattle: Well, I hope that answers your question. The guild would accept the votes of the citizens.
Michel Manen: fine
Patroklus Murakami: no, i think we should take a vote today
Claude Desmoulins: And then submit the result to the RA?
Michel Manen: i dont thnk im ready to vote yes yet
TOPGenosse Brouwer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s v frustrating to have items endlessly deferred because ppl come unprepared to RA meetings
Patroklus Murakami: if u have a proposed amendment michel why haven’t you drafted or submitted it?
Claude Desmoulins: I’d also like to seesome of this clarification either inthe bill or a chrter document the acceptance of which is one of the explicit actions of the legislation.
Publius Crabgrass: pat, I dont think that’s really fair, this bill raises a lot of questions.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s been on the forums since November !
Michel Manen: As I said, I would like to address the issue of direct input from a responsible Guild official into our deliberative process, just as we have Sudane’s input on budget issues… and because i’d rather we arrive at a common basic agreement before i draft competing billis Pat
Jon Seattle: Yes, it is well past time that we move on this.
Moon Adamant: Michel – why don’t you propose an amendment that deals with your concerns? something in the lines of ‘A spokeperson of the guild shall provide advice to RA and Exec when requested’
Moon Adamant: mind you, that’s addressed under 3
Claude Desmoulins: 3 doesn’t make any attempt to indicate who speaks for the NG in its official contact with the government. That needs to be in the bill or the charter.
Michel Manen: we are basically abolishing one branch of government and privatising another here…. the judiciary is destroyed and the SSC is unelected… i think we should think carefully about what we are doing before rushing onto adopting legilsation like tihs
Jon Seattle: That is in the bill.
Jon Seattle: Claude, read the rest.
Patroklus Murakami: rushing? it’s been under discussion since November!
Claude Desmoulins: Which subsection, Jon?
Publius Crabgrass: this is only our 2d meeting talking about it @ this RA.
Moon Adamant: Organization, 2
Michel Manen: i still dont think we have an overall vision of what our insitutions are and how they would work together
Moon Adamant: “The board represents the Guild in all dealings with the CDS. ”
Moon Adamant: and jon has crasherd
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Coule a charter document, including theprovisions about sim planning, get on a notecard?
Patroklus Murakami: i may end up agrreing with what you propose michel but it would help if you voiced these concerns earlier and attempted to draft a proposal to bring to the meetinng. u can try to get agreement beforehand. raising new issues when the item is on the floor and you’ve had plenty of time to consider it is not v helpful when we have such limited time each week
Moon Adamant: well, claude, that can be done, yes
Claude Desmoulins: I also think the bill needs to include formal acceptance of the charter.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re out of time.
Michel Manen: point taken. i prefer we discuss these issues face to face before arguing it out on the forums.. I will do so, however, from now on.
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, we could put this on the forums and pass it once 4 of us have votes yes in the forum poll.
Conover’s SuperSmooth? Flight-Helper? 3.0a: Max-Velocity? now set to 15 M/s.
Conover’s SuperSmooth? Flight-Helper? 3.0a: Commands: /flyhelp to get documentation.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we then kick to forums here?
Moon Adamant: wb Jon
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll try to take these points on board and redraft accordingly
Justice Soothsayer: rather than waiting another 2 weeks
Claude Desmoulins: We could indeed.
Moon Adamant: mind you, this thing has been on the table for AGES
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t vote over the next week
Justice Soothsayer: actually, only 3 votes need to pass.
Claude Desmoulins: \Any objection to referring NG to forums and meeting again on the 4th?
Michel Manen: nay
Patroklus Murakami: i’m away from internet access for a week
Moon Adamant: why don’t you pass it to 7 day mail?
Sudane Erato: oh my Pat… you will die! 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’m looking forward to it actually
Sudane Erato: I would
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: forums are more transparent. We can now vote in the closed forum.
Moon Adamant: nods
Jon Seattle: Thanks
Claude Desmoulins: And like a public in world meeting, they allow others to se our deliberations.
Claude Desmoulins: I move adjournment.
Moon Adamant: well Claude, you used to post the mails
Patroklus Murakami: what have we decided on voting?
Justice Soothsayer: Pat can vote when his internet-free period of pennance is over.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Since we won’t be inworld for two weeks.
Patroklus Murakami: that will be okay justice. i’m back online on tues
Moon Adamant: so when will you discuss it?
Jon Seattle: Claude, dragging your heels? 😀
Patroklus Murakami: a week after next tueday
Justice Soothsayer: so who will post the revised bill?
Justice Soothsayer: and when?
Jon Seattle: I am not sure revisions have been requested.
Jon Seattle: Who has asked for what?
Moon Adamant: yes, please define procedures
Michel Manen: I did on the issue of direct input from a responsible Guild official into our deliberative process
Patroklus Murakami: i think michel and claude have both asked for revisions, of the New Guild charter if not this bill 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Claude also asked for revision on sim planning & “charter acceptance”
Moon Adamant: ok, that’s the thing already addressed under 3 and Organization,2 – but perhaps we can make that more clear
Jon Seattle: Okay, but it is not at all clear what he is asking for there. He refuses to acknowledge that the RA has the last word in the proposed process.
Claude Desmoulins: I like what I heard today. If we can get this on “paper” , this is a bill I can support.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it would help to put claude and michel’s minds at rest if those parts were made clearer
Michel Manen: same here if we deal with the input issue
Claude Desmoulins: That’s one of the things I think needs to be explicit in the bill and or charter.
Moon Adamant: surely 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: One other note: I really think it would be helpful for Ali to be present for the discussion of the telehub, maybe we could even try to meet on her schedule.
Jon Seattle: Okay, lets do this. Rather than having the members of the interrum Guild guess, please send me proposed revisions in the next day or two.
Claude Desmoulins: She’s available in world Tues and Thursday evenings,
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll try to get something to you late tonight.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I think Ali has no desire to get involved herself – unless RA wants to discuss transferring it officially to the CDS
Jon Seattle: I will then meet with the interrum board for their comments.
Michel Manen: yes its critical for Alisi to be here for Anzeri discussions
Claude Desmoulins: We’re 10 min over.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s conclude the New guild business first before we get on to the telehub
Claude Desmoulins: Can we adjourn?
Michel Manen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: no
Patroklus Murakami: how is the voting to take place?
Claude Desmoulins: forums
Patroklus Murakami: so i dont get a vote?
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, pat, just wanted to get that in before Claude adjourned.
Michel Manen: sure you do pat.. as soon as you can get to a connecton 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: you’re disenfranchising me, i can’t vote online over the course of the week
Moon Adamant: hmmm, if pat is away and you want the new bill on forums… and forums are closed
Moon Adamant: who will post it?
Michel Manen: the vote wont be final until you vote pat
Claude Desmoulins: could we do an extrodinary chanbge to RA procedures.
Justice Soothsayer: u can vote 27 February, Pat, or @ an airport terminal
Claude Desmoulins: Amending seven day to until the next inworld meeting?
Michel Manen: aye
Claude Desmoulins: I move that amendment to RA procedure
Patroklus Murakami: so two weeks?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor
Michel Manen: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Claude Desmoulins: There now we have until the 4th to vote.
Patroklus Murakami: ty for taking that point
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned, unless there’s objection
Publius Crabgrass: nope
Michel Manen: bye bye for now
Justice Soothsayer: bye
The meeting closed at 13:16 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 04, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (14, 166, 41)

Meeting on 2007-03-04
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any reports?
Jon Seattle: lol
Beathan Vale: justice — here then gone
Patroklus Murakami: only the regional planning commission, but it’s on the agenda for later
Publius Crabgrass: i just wanted to report on the code project
Patroklus Murakami: do u want to take it now?
Michel Manen: lets start with that
Patroklus Murakami: code?
Michel Manen: of laws
Publius Crabgrass: yes, the commission to review the Code
Patroklus Murakami: sure, that would be good to hear about 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: not much to report; an initial burst of activity, and I’m waiting for the other volunteers to respond to a draft list of code sections, with each…
Publius Crabgrass: identified as to whether it is in force, merely historical, etc., and a possible list of subjects for an index
Michel Manen: i think we must be better at publicizing them and summarizing them in short clear texts…. a substantial number of our citizens have no idea they exist.. 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: ignorance of the law, and all that
Patroklus Murakami: well, i think the issue of new citizen induction/education could do with some discussion. i’d agree with michel that we need to consider this in that context
Claude Desmoulins: Good point
Michel Manen: good 🙂 i think its our duty to make an effort… this is not RL .people can just go on ignoring them with little consequence.. so yes, I agree with Pat

Patroklus Murakami: do u want to take the regional planning commission report now claude? or wait til justice gets back?
Michel Manen: i thought you could start pat.. and justice will catch up 🙂
Michel Manen: its already quarter past
Claude Desmoulins: Actually let’s do that. Pat…
Patroklus Murakami: well, i don’t want to reiterate what i’ve already posted on the forums. the link is http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?p=6028#6028
Patroklus Murakami: for anyone who hasn’t read it yet
Patroklus Murakami: i think we had a successful pair of meetings with good involvement from a number of citizens and interesed non-citizens
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps RA members could be invited to comment/question?
Michel Manen: well if i many i would like to say, as someone who participated in all sessions, that Moon and her team did an outstading job, as you can all see 🙂
Kape Rau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: we now have options to consider
Patroklus Murakami: yes, moon deserves a lot of the credit for making this work
Michel Manen: that can be ingegrated into a coherent long term plan
Publius Crabgrass: the scale models are very helpful to understanding it
Michel Manen: and that was exactyl this commissions mandate
Kape Rau: i speak german soory
Michel Manen: hello justice
Jon Seattle: Hi Justice 🙂
Michel Manen: so i think pat must be commeded for brining in exactly what was asked of him
Justice Soothsayer: I am SO sorry, seem to be having serious network problems, had to reboot
Claude Desmoulins: Michel, am I to understand what’s on the wall opposite me as a counter proposal?
Michel Manen: wir sind in einer versammlung Kape
Michel Manen: not at all
Michel Manen: that is a specific proposal that could fit in perfectly with hte overall topographic design moon preapred
Michel Manen: kape setz dich bitte
Michel Manen: danke
Claude Desmoulins: Although the topo map stronly implies contiguous land, doesn’t it?
Michel Manen: it was not considered as part of the comissions ambit
Patroklus Murakami: yes, we discussed michel’s idea for a sim inbetween NFS and CN at the planning commission. we don’t want to cut off such an idea (or endorse it) but the plan is flexible enough to accomodate such ideas
Michel Manen: not necessarily
Claude Desmoulins: *strongly
Claude Desmoulins: Ah
Michel Manen: it looks at two clusters
Michel Manen: north and south
Michel Manen: how we connect them is up to the RA
Michel Manen: and the CDS citizens
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think that Moon’s proposal has room for some variation of Michel’s idea
Michel Manen: i think a waterway can connect as much as contiguous land with the proper theme and provide disctinct advantages.. btu that again was outside the commission scope as envisaged by Pat

Patroklus Murakami: the main featuer of the plan is that is deals with the current features of our existing sims – the height of NFS for example. and it allows flexibility and creativity in filling in the remaining 14 sims in the framework
Michel Manen: eactly
Michel Manen: exactly
Claude Desmoulins: 16 no?
Michel Manen: yes 16
Patroklus Murakami: 16 in total
Patroklus Murakami: current 2 plus 14
Justice Soothsayer: 14 new
Patroklus Murakami: sorry 18 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Bear with me. I haven’t had a chance to look at any of this.
Patroklus Murakami: 12 + 6 = 18 (jeez and i used to be a maths teacher!)
Michel Manen: lol yes pat 18 with the 2 exisiting ones
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion?
Michel Manen: what is key here is that theme is not predetermiend by geography
Michel Manen: that remains to be discussed and determined by us all
Publius Crabgrass: do I understand correctly that it is extremely difficult to lower the height of Neufreistadt? That seems to dictate a lot of these plans.
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i had a notetaker malfunction so we lost teh discussion from teh second meeting 🙁 but i think my summary is an accurate account of what we agreed
Jon Seattle: Indeed
Patroklus Murakami: yes publius
Michel Manen: it will take 8 sims to do that
Patroklus Murakami: the height of NFS is major limiting factor. (tho i prefer to think of it as something distinctive, a design constraint)
Michel Manen: yes quite right pat
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: can we approve this as our Regional Plan/Estate Expansion Framework?
Michel Manen: second
Claude Desmoulins: Any further discussione before we vote on the plan?
Justice Soothsayer: I like the work very much, great job Pat (and Moon, of course)
Publius Crabgrass: good to have a blueprint for where we are going
Michel Manen: indeed
Patroklus Murakami: this commission was a very pleasant experience
Michel Manen: yes it was 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and i’m happy with the output
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote so we can move on.
Justice Soothsayer votes to approve the plan
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of approving the regional plan…
Michel Manen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Claude Desmoulins votes in favor
Claude Desmoulins: Next…
Claude Desmoulins: New guild
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Michel Manen: i have a question. can you please jon explain the role of the Chair?
Publius Crabgrass: Claude, do the revisions address the points you made last meeting?
Claude Desmoulins: Again. I think so, though I have had literally a couple of minutes to read the revised version.
Jon Seattle: Well, the guild is organized into two groups. The board (open to all citizens willing to work on projects) and the faculty
Michel Manen: yes
Jon Seattle: there is a self – elected head of the faculty
Jon Seattle: and a spokes person for the board
Jon Seattle: I assume you are asking about the head of the faculty?
Michel Manen: yes
Jon Seattle: The faculty has someone of a limited role in the organizational structure — that is they mainly set standards and support projects
Jon Seattle: The chair convienes the meetings of the faculty
Jon Seattle: and serves as a spokesperson in general.
Michel Manen: let us say we have an RA meeting and we ask the head to participate and give us the views of the guild on a matter – can he or she do so and duly prepresent the guild and participate in such discussions?
Patroklus Murakami: michel, is your question about the interface between the New Guild and the RA?
Publius Crabgrass: the herder of cats?
Michel Manen: yes
Jon Seattle: (I should mention, lol, that I am not applying for that position.)
Michel Manen: (too bad Jon)
Jon Seattle: The spokesperson represents the guild
Jon Seattle: the chair of the faculty would offer technical advice only
Claude Desmoulins: And the secretary is accountable to/represents the admin board?
Jon Seattle: Exactly.
Jon Seattle: We went in the direction of making this as democratic as we could, while still wanting to recognize people’s skills and expertise
Michel Manen: i want to make sure the RA has a go-to person in the guild capable of speaking in its name without always answering “this is outside the purview of my mandate”
Jon Seattle: thus the devision
Jon Seattle: Yes, the secretary is that person. And would also, of course, consult with the faculty.
Michel Manen: ah. The secretary then
Michel Manen: Good. THank you. as long as that’s clear..
Jon Seattle: You are welcome
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: no. i’m happy 🙂
Michel Manen: same
Publius Crabgrass: me too
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote then.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the new guild bill…..
Michel Manen: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: congrats Jon
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Patroklus Murakami: ‘the Guild is dead! long live the Guild!’
Justice Soothsayer: long time coming, I know
Jon Seattle: Thanks. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Last. Chancellor availability.
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
Sudane Erato: thank you!!
Jon Seattle: Yea! 🙂
Michel Manen: hmm
Justice Soothsayer: Ali said she’s free to meet on Tues & Thursday evenings
Justice Soothsayer: and would like to meet with as many RA members who can be present
Michel Manen: what slt time plz?
Justice Soothsayer: she’s in Eastern US, so that’s SLT plus 3.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we have an extraordinary meeting once a month? She wasn’t speciic
Claude Desmoulins: *specific
Michel Manen: yes ithink once a month is absolutely necessarry
Claude Desmoulins: I’d imagine something like 5-10 pm slt
Michel Manen: i can make it 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: as you know, if it goes on past 5pm I can’t make it (usually in bed by 4pm SL time)
Justice Soothsayer: not sure how long Tues-Thurs? will be her schedule

Justice Soothsayer: I have some evening commitments in the next couple weeks that would make it very difficult
Justice Soothsayer: but March 20 or 22 are OK
Patroklus Murakami: but it’s more important that it happens than that everyone can make it
Michel Manen: well
Claude Desmoulins: I’m only available for sure later in the evening, say after 6:30 pm slt
Michel Manen: if we dont have at least 3 RA members present..
Claude Desmoulins: But not all of us have to be there.
Publius Crabgrass: i’m fairly flexible
Michel Manen: im fine with that time
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll drop ALiasi an IM asking for specific times for march 20 or 22.
Publius Crabgrass: those dates are fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: This may be the fastest meeting in RA history 🙂
Michel Manen: smiles
Sudane Erato: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Patroklus Murakami: do we have time for further discussion? or do u need to get away claude?
Michel Manen: i am still working on the Auditor General ACt
Publius Crabgrass: surely someone could propose something terribly controversial
Michel Manen: i hope to table it by Friday
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion on the chancellor meeting question?
Publius Crabgrass: are we meeting next Sunday?
Jon Seattle: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think so.
Michel Manen: why not?
Justice Soothsayer: not sure if i;ll be here sunday, may be out of town.
Patroklus Murakami: no, i meant on other topics. i think we need to discuss traffic, events, the Anzere hub i understand if you’d rather take that next week
Patroklus Murakami: i can make next week
Michel Manen: also, we need to discuss the LL fees for new features
Michel Manen: thats quite important
Patroklus Murakami: yes, good point michel
Claude Desmoulins: Rather than sit here and discuss, let’s bounce to forums and take in world time when there’s a specific proposal.
Sudane Erato: yes
Publius Crabgrass: very good point, we need some more info on that, Michel.
Michel Manen: well i think that should be quite high on the agenda
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, what would the class 5 conversion cost us?
Michel Manen: its not just the class 5 conversion
Sudane Erato: we’ll not get more info on that until they make up their minds
Patroklus Murakami: well, i put three proposals out for discussion. i’ll repost them on the RA discussion forum
Michel Manen: its the 200 per month persim we would have to pay for new features
Michel Manen: sorry 100 US
Sudane Erato: up to now, this whole subject is just rumor
Sudane Erato: that is not at all definite
Claude Desmoulins: Rumor? I saw something intheofficial LL blog.
Michel Manen: well i dont think we can just wait until the rumors become fact
Sudane Erato: yes, LL floated the idea of residents paying for voice capability
Jon Seattle: I think that LL sometimes floats trial baloons.. so its not certain what they will do in the end..
Sudane Erato: thats as far as they went
Sudane Erato: exactly Jon
Michel Manen: this is a flying kyte than can be repeated every time there is a new feature
Sudane Erato: hehe
Michel Manen: we must take a stand now
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Michel Manen: i know other sims are
Sudane Erato: well…. you my
Sudane Erato: you may
Sudane Erato: but i don’t see it as so important
Michel Manen: do we have 2400 US per year extra for LL?
Publius Crabgrass: sounds like its better to wait until we see what LL actually does
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: and not get too excited about it in the meanwhile.
Claude Desmoulins: I think it’s less about principled stands and more about doing a cost benefit to see if a given new feature is worth what LL wants us to pay.
Sudane Erato: i agree Claude…
Sudane Erato: should that happen
Michel Manen: what about the nexttime there wil be new features and more money will be demanded?
Sudane Erato: we must see if that happens 🙂
Michel Manen: lol
Publius Crabgrass: its a marketplace issue, are those new features worth it
Sudane Erato: remember, LL has a worldwide economy at stake here
Claude Desmoulins: We decide if it’s worth it or not on a feature by feature basis.
Michel Manen: i think we should decide on what our position would be if this happens
Sudane Erato: not just principled stands of landowners
Michel Manen: not just waituntil we re faced with a fait accompli
Publius Crabgrass: for me, much would depend on what is offered, and how it would position us in the overall marketplace. If we are the home of silent movies in a fully-voice world, it would raise some issues.
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: do we get free voice for CN but have to pay for NFS?
Sudane Erato: no, the two sims are in the same catagory
Michel Manen: its a bit like global warming.. no point in waiting until the oceans rise by 5 meters .. 🙂 smiles
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: oh, did we get CN before the price went up?
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: k:)
Jon Seattle: I suppose that it is inevitable, but voice also may change our society in some ways.
Michel Manen: indeed
Sudane Erato: yes!
Patroklus Murakami: it’ll make meetings quicker 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Michel Manen: my concern is not just about voice… it is about modus operandi… we just cannot allow extra fees to be leviedfor each future new feature
Claude Desmoulins: Could we adjourn the official meeting and discuss informally?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Sudane Erato: but Michel, we have no authority over that
Michel Manen: we could if we chose to with other like minded sims
Sudane Erato: *shrug*
Justice Soothsayer: i think we’ll need to wait for a bit more information before deciding when and where to take a principled stand.
Patroklus Murakami: well, i think i’d like to see what’s actually being proposed before deciding whether to ‘take a stand’ agains the LInden’s gouging us
Michel Manen: its not against any one Pat – its a quwstiono in engaging in discussions to decide how 2L will develop in the future
Sudane Erato: forgive me… I must go
Justice Soothsayer: bye Sudane
Michel Manen: bye bye for now sudane
Sudane Erato: bye now 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye sudane and thanks! 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: so, is your issue the implementation of voice? or of the lindens adding new features then asking us to pay to upgrade?
Publius Crabgrass: cya Sudane
TOPGenosse Brouwer: bye!
Patroklus Murakami: bye sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to adjournment?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Michel Manen: one is a specific example of the other
Patroklus Murakami: no objection claude
Justice Soothsayer: no
Publius Crabgrass: none
Michel Manen: no
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned. Feel free to keep discussing 🙂
The meeting closed at 12:57 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 18, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (198, 184, 178)

Meeting on 2007-03-18
Those present:
Publius Crabgrass is in the chair.
Publius Crabgrass: now we’ve lost Claude
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass: Justice, congrats to you and Beathan for being in the ABA journal. That was a nice surprise.
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks
Justice Soothsayer: I thought CDS came off quite well, even if they did refer to us as Neufreistadt
Publius Crabgrass: hmm, wonder what happened to Claude
Michel Manen: HEllo all
Publius Crabgrass: wd
Publius Crabgrass: wb, tht is
Publius Crabgrass: hi Michel
Justice Soothsayer: hello, Michel
Claude Desmoulins: Seem to be having crashing problems
Michel Manen: Hi Publisu – Justice 🙂
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: Ah. We seem to have a quorum today. 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, just so you know, I’m going to have trouble attending the April 1 and April 8 meeting dates.
Publius Crabgrass: 8 April is Easter, that one will be problematic for me as well.
Claude Desmoulins: I figured we’d avoid the 8th, Easter and all.
Justice Soothsayer: and April Fools Day? hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s begin
Claude Desmoulins: First, are there any reports?
Michel Manen: Hello Sudane
Publius Crabgrass: hi Sudane.
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Sudane Erato: I can report
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass: Excellent treasurer’s report on the forum!
Sudane Erato: yes… just to refer to that
Sudane Erato: and that we will pay back 100% of our loan
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear! Nice to see us so solid.
Sudane Erato: which we incurred last October
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: it is very nice to see this
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, do you get traffic reports?
Sudane Erato: traffic?… no
Sudane Erato: from what source?
Justice Soothsayer: from LL?
Sudane Erato: hmm…
Sudane Erato: i’ve never really looked
Justice Soothsayer: when they used to give traffic bonuses, I think we had a way of knowing how many visitors we’ve had.
Sudane Erato: ahhhh
Sudane Erato: i think perhaps thats by parcel
Sudane Erato: i’m not sure where to look for that
Sudane Erato: but yes, it must still exist
Sudane Erato: because it is shown in the “Places” Search
Justice Soothsayer: OK, just thought it might be interesting to know how much we are visited, esp in the public areas.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: I agree
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else , Sudane?
Sudane Erato: thats it for me… I was pleased to finally get it done for Feb!
Sudane Erato: sorry for the delay
Sudane Erato: oh
Sudane Erato: also
Sudane Erato: it has been pointed out
Sudane Erato: an error that I jave made
Sudane Erato: in implementing the land sales rules
Sudane Erato: the RA
Sudane Erato: may wish to look into this… relating to the Group Ownership procedures
Sudane Erato: but just want to announce this… no need to deal with it now
Publius Crabgrass: what error?
Sudane Erato: i have omitted to attend to a clause which states that people shall own land FIRST as individuals, before owning as member of a group
Sudane Erato: there are significant problems with that
Sudane Erato: but the truth is
Sudane Erato: that i have simply and inadvertantly overlooked that requirement
Sudane Erato: and it must be known
Sudane Erato: I have made a post in the forum regarding this
Pixieplumb Flanagan: excuse me
Pixieplumb Flanagan: is this the church meeting
Sudane Erato: no… not here
Pixieplumb Flanagan: sorry
Claude Desmoulins: Ah.
Pixieplumb Flanagan: forgive me for intruding
Sudane Erato: its usually fore like 3 or 4 PM SLT
Sudane Erato: in the church
Claude Desmoulins has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pixieplumb Flanagan: oh, I’m in england you see
Justice Soothsayer: hi Pel
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi all!
Claude Desmoulins: Publius,
Sudane Erato: hi Pel 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Do you have a code revision report?
Michel Manen: Hi Pel 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: just to say that I did get one response to my draft compilation, and I’m sharing it with the other volunteers. Its a slow process, I’m afraid.
Pelanor Eldrich: Very briefly I posted to the forums as you’ve seen and I haven’t yet heard from Publius about whether he approves of my approach.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll take a copy Pub, if that’s ok…
Pelanor Eldrich: 😉
Publius Crabgrass: sure
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: thx Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Next item.
Claude Desmoulins: Chancellor meetings
Michel Manen: I spoke to Aliasi about this
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi is available after 5pm SLT either Tuesday the 20th or Thursday the 22nd.
Michel Manen: she would be able to meet with us wednsdays anytime from 10 am to 10 pm slt
Michel Manen: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What are our collective preferences?
Justice Soothsayer: I’m unavailable on the 22nd
Justice Soothsayer: but the 20th is fine
Publius Crabgrass: 20th is OK for me, but I could also do after 4pm SLT on the 22nd
Michel Manen: im fine whenver most of us can make it
Claude Desmoulins: 20th is only workable late (say after 6 or 7)
Justice Soothsayer: thats OK with me
Michel Manen: fine
Justice Soothsayer: 6 or 7 is fine
Claude Desmoulins: Pat is probably precluded by time anyway.
Publius Crabgrass: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we say 7 pm on the 20th then?
Michel Manen: fine
Claude Desmoulins: Last item, Beathan’s bill. Since he hasn’t submitted on notecard we can’t vote on it.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Michel Manen: indeed
Pelanor Eldrich: How does the proposal fit with 5-20 the Arbitration Act?
Claude Desmoulins: It seems to extend it by making arbitration the default and creating a formal mechanism.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, ok so litigation via binding SC is not the default. Interesting.
Michel Manen: Well i dont believe that is at all wise. We must rething our justice system from the ground up and introduce coherent legislation to htat effect.
Claude Desmoulins: I also wonder about compelling people to arbitrate.
Michel Manen: thats a contradiction i nterms
Justice Soothsayer: where we sit right now, i think, is that the SC is charged with providing dispute resolution, which could include reference to arbitration with consent of the parties
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe not compelling, but close to it.
Claude Desmoulins: If I read the proposal correctly. I’ve only glanced at it.
Michel Manen: well the SC is simply not the appropriate forum to resolve all our disputes, not can arbitration be compelled. As i sasid, we must all work togther to devise a workable ,stable and fair judicial system. That would also allow, of ocurse for voluntary arbitration.
Pelanor Eldrich: Same here, a question I had, and it’s the same as 5-20, is that if you don’t put in a clause about arbitration being binding in any agreement all losers will automatically appeal to the SC.
Claude Desmoulins: Notice Section 3 of Beathan’s proposal.
Pelanor Eldrich: 5-20 says arbitration cannot use sanctions at the sole discretion of the SC, which I take to mean banning and CDS land forfeiture.
Michel Manen: Beathan’s proposal is not at issue as it has not been properly submitted.
Pelanor Eldrich: True
Claude Desmoulins: I thought 5-20 allows parties to agree on binding arbitration.
Justice Soothsayer reading wiki
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes it does, Claude, but some sanctions cannot be applied. I asked Justice about that yesterday.
Michel Manen: Pel did a great job tying to map out our insitutional structure. It is that kind of coherent appproach we must take here, not patchwork acts that don’t make snese when put together.
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t banning and/or land forfeiture a matter of a dispute between the CDS and a citizen rather than a citizen-citizen dispute?
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW that’s all getting reworked. The AC is gone. BTW I’d like to propose formally thanking Sudane for her work as GM and to formally appreciate her continued worked as EO and Treasurer.
Justice Soothsayer: yes, banning and land forfeiture can’t be remedies in arbitration.
Michel Manen: of course not.
Pelanor Eldrich: A citizen vs. citizens dispute could result in banning or land forfeiture. Why not?
Pelanor Eldrich: It would be tried by the SC though.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (good evening 🙂 )
Pelanor Eldrich: hiya
Michel Manen: THat is not the SC’s role.
Sudane Erato: hi TOP 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hi all 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Forefeiture is diferent from an asset transfer.
Publius Crabgrass: Forefeiture could include loss of citizenship
Pelanor Eldrich: I loan Claude $4000USD in $L with a note and don’t get paid and he laughs at me. We have a Nota Bene agreement and digitally signed reciepts. He tells me to go f myself. What does the SC do? Ban him or at least take his land and give it to me. no?
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, how long do we want to spend on this since there’s not yet a bill in the hopper.

Claude Desmoulins: No, you start a civil suit and get part of my assets, including land, transferred to you as aprt of the settlement or judgement.
TOPGenosse Brouwer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: *part
Justice Soothsayer: critics of Beathan’s bill should go at it on the forum, then we can get a bill in proper form for debate.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok. No ban?
Michel Manen: Well i think we shoud decide what apporach we should take to the entire judiciary / arbitration matter.
Pelanor Eldrich: Good point Claude.
Pelanor Eldrich: Makes sense.
Michel Manen: I truly believe that only if we all collaborate on this we will acheive results- not just wait for individuals bils to be tabled.
Pelanor Eldrich: We could do the forum thing. Let’s just try to hammer it out better than last session.
Publius Crabgrass: quite, Pelanor.
Claude Desmoulins: And here comes Pat.
Michel Manen: Ah
Michel Manen: Pel you are at the cross roads of our political , business and legal worlds.. what thoughts do you have on how we should structure our approach to the arbitration-judiciary issue?
Michel Manen: since you are here today i wantto take advantage of your experience . smiles
Michel Manen: hi pat
Sudane Erato: hi Pat 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Lucipher Baphomet would prefer…queue Startrek music…………..Trial by Combat!
Patroklus Murakami: hi, sorry i’m late
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hi pat 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: hi Pat
Patroklus Murakami: the two weeks the US is on different daylight savings has thown me 🙁
Michel Manen: Ah. I was just reading this morning about ht e Ccid Campeador fighting the Moors… myabe we need one 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: so .. no one speaking/typing?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: may I bring something small to the table then?
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Pat, an aside… do you have a document version of the regional plan yet?
Claude Desmoulins: Also, please don’t forget to touch the recorder, everyone.
Patroklus Murakami: not yet claude, no. i suggest cut and pasting the forum post to teh wiki in the meantime. the complication is the images, i don’t know how you would reference those in a wiki entry
Pelanor Eldrich: Go ahead TOP.
Publius Crabgrass: i think we could load them as a pdf document, Pat
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (You can also upload them on the wiki .. quite easy)
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, TOP.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: OK, thank you.
Patroklus Murakami: could someone more technically literate volunteer to do that then? if u wait for me it might be a while before it gets done!

TOPGenosse Brouwer: For the sake of good communication I propose the following: Have someone who was involved write a small paragraph about the abolishment of the Guild (Jon?), and one about repealing Ash’s Judiciary documents (SC?) and also a small paragraph on “what is the CDS”, and have those 3 things published on Neufreistadt.info? “Normal” citizens really don’t have a clue about the first 2, and the last item is NOT on the website yet.
Pelanor Eldrich: We also need to lock down the AC forums.
TOPGenosse Brouwer nods
Pelanor Eldrich: *forum
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW I agree.
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot has taken over PIO, maybe he would be the person to start with.
Justice Soothsayer: Good idea
Patroklus Murakami: good suggestions TOP, we need clear communications.should this be a PIO responsibility? claude beat me to it
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I think PIO is more to the outside, isn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: What is the CDS is certainly forthe outside.
Publius Crabgrass: BTW, kudos for Justice & Beathan being quoted in the American Bar Association journal about Neufreistadt!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: If two people here can write about Judiciary & “what is the CDS”, then I’m sure Jon can write about the Guild and it’s implications.
Patroklus Murakami: the judiciary text could be controversial….
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Yes, that’s why you need someone who sees both sides of the issue
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (=dpu?)
Patroklus Murakami: a schizophrenic?
Pelanor Eldrich: I think, just personally, that the forums should be moved to slcds.info because they’re national, not NFS related. We could have forums devoted to local NFS and CN issues. The JA repeal and the AC abolishment should be headline items. The wiki should also get moved to slcds.info and a RA archivist get the codes and transcripts up to date. The SC archivist should keep the consitution as ameneded and the SC transcripts up to date.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hahah
Michel Manen: i tthink that is counterproductive. we shouls concentrate instead of devising a workable system.
Claude Desmoulins: What about Redaktisto? He works for SLNN.
Michel Manen: lol
TOPGenosse Brouwer: So no volunteers about writing the three paragraphs?? I wonder who understands it besides the people in this room!!
Patroklus Murakami: i think that whoever writes it, it should be agreed to by a range of people with different views. it’s difficult to be objective about the JA situation
Justice Soothsayer: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Or we could try to twist Gwyns’ arm.
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, it’s fairly political. Maybe Gwyn.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: There’s always Ash himself 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I do see the point of getting someone to write up Judiciary changes who doesn’t have an “iron in the fire”
Michel Manen: i dont think this is something the RA should be involved in
Patroklus Murakami: no need to rub salt in ash’s wounds TOP
Michel Manen: were herevto pass laws not summarize history
Claude Desmoulins: I’d agree with Michel here.
Justice Soothsayer: who wrote the voter’s guide?
Justice Soothsayer: that might be an objective way to go.
Michel Manen: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Fernando
Sudane Erato: that was Fernando
Michel Manen: but again this is outside our purview
Patroklus Murakami: we’re also here to make things happen michel. who do u think should write these pieces for the site and make these things happen?
Michel Manen: are you asking me as a private citizen or as an RA member?
Claude Desmoulins: So TOP, why don’t you mention it to Diderot and Fernando and see what they can come up with.
Pelanor Eldrich: Fernando, Salzie, Gwyn…all pretty apolitical.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Michel > So if citizens wonder what the hell is going on, no one will giv ethem the short version?? And they’ll just have to read the whole 100 page forum? I think that’s bad towards the citizens
Patroklus Murakami: would the answer be different?
Justice Soothsayer: i[‘m not so sure its outside our purview, Michel; I think the RA has an obligation to explain to the citizens that we’ve made some fundamental changes to our govt of late.
Michel Manen: of course
Patroklus Murakami: let’s have both then 🙂
Michel Manen: as an RA member i have no opinion ecause its not in our purview
TOPGenosse Brouwer Fully agrees with Justice!
Pelanor Eldrich: The other thing we lack without Reakisto and The Democrat is some kind of CDS free press to publicize all this stuff.
Michel Manen: as a private citizen i think that if a non-political organisation wishes to summarise historical events of the past year and publish them on a non CDS officla page that ‘s up to them
Publius Crabgrass: I agree too; we need a newly revised guide to our governmental institutions, and I think its fair that the RA ask someone (our PIO, maybe?) to do so.
Michel Manen: and th official CDS pages could lik to it
Claude Desmoulins: Or refer to the Chancellor. The civil service act was I thought to create an apparatus for getting things done without the RA having to DIY everything.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Citizens need to know big changes …. if no ones writes it down in a short version .. that’s very untransparent
Patroklus Murakami agrees with claude on that
Claude Desmoulins: Five minutes folks.
Michel Manen: well…. we can state facts
Pelanor Eldrich: I agree TOP.
Patroklus Murakami: and it *is* our responsiblity to ensure that the RAs actions are communicated
Michel Manen: Ja passed on such a date, debate took place, commisison held, JA abolished
Pelanor Eldrich: The AC is gone and replaced by the Guild. The JA has been repealed, cases will be heard by the SC or by arbitration.
Michel Manen: that is fine
TOPGenosse Brouwer agrees with Pat.
Pelanor Eldrich: *New Guild NGO
Claude Desmoulins: True. Is there any objection to asking Diderot what he can come up with?
Michel Manen: that is an entirely differnt matter as to writing on the substantive issues
Patroklus Murakami: nope. that sounds like a sensible way forward claude
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yes, Diderot has not been around for many weeks
Michel Manen: well.. what exactly are we asking him to do please?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: a summary
TOPGenosse Brouwer: not an opinion
Michel Manen: dates and facts?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: so why don’tyou write a summary if you know it better than Diderot : is that too much to ask?
Publius Crabgrass: summarise recent changes to the structure of our government.
Pelanor Eldrich: I can dumb down my charts and do a before and after.
Michel Manen: ah fine. that is fine i think
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. Dates, facts. What institutions are now handling the responsibilities of the eliminated entities.
Michel Manen: publius you ve done a lot of work on this
TOPGenosse Brouwer: exactly
Publius Crabgrass: i can take a stab at it. Of course, it will be a “simple” version.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve run out of time.
Michel Manen: exctly waht is required
Claude Desmoulins: Same time next week in the Praetorium?
Michel Manen: ok
Michel Manen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: yes, and i’ll set my alarm!
Justice Soothsayer: ok
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Publius > that’s great 🙂
Michel Manen: and 20th at 7 with hte chancellor
Claude Desmoulins: Yes Chancellor meeting here, svp.
Michel Manen: thank you
Claude Desmoulins: And we are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 12:58 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 20, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (197, 185, 178)

Meeting on 2007-03-21
Those present:
Justice Soothsayer is in the chair.
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass: aha, here’s Claude no9w
Justice Soothsayer: hi Claude, I just started the notetaker
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, shall we begin?
Justice Soothsayer: so Ali, what do you have to report?
Publius Crabgrass: yes, how goes the Chancellor gig?
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay. Firstly, while this is something I’ve discussed with Sudane and have not yet officially announced, we intend to make TOPGenosse a caretaker, same as Antonius. Sudane says the budget is good for it, and it’s essentially what he does already.
Michel Manen: good evenign everyone
Publius Crabgrass: hi Michel
Michel Manen: hi nikki
Nikki Maertens: Hi
Claude Desmoulins has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: have a seat plz
Claude Desmoulins: Please remember to touch the recorder.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Nikki Maertens: Thank you
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: thank you for meetign with us Aliasi
Justice Soothsayer: good news about caretakers, they’ve been good at cleaning up leftover prims
Aliasi Stonebender: Secondly, there’s been some delay on my project to make a center-square teleporter/directory, although it will still be done. Just somewhat low priority on my coding/scripting projects ATM, due to RL issues.
Michel Manen: i guess pat wont be able to make it today 🙂
Michel Manen: well as long as thats in the works that’s fine 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: alright. let’s see… Gwyn has taken care of the infamous spinning “for sale” signs. I’m under the impression Carolyn did not respond, so I imagine she was forced to make a summary judgement, essentially, given it was such an obvious violation.
Michel Manen: was there an actual SC meeting?
Michel Manen: hello rose and J aliasi is just updating us on the Carlolyn situation
Jeremy Utarid: hello
Rose Springvale: ah, hello
Publius Crabgrass: wow, the whole partnership of Utarid & Springvale!
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn was scheduling one.
Rose Springvale: yes.
Publius Crabgrass: welcome
Rose Springvale: thanks
Aliasi Stonebender: However, like I said… it’s one of those obvious cases. I referred it to the SC in order to set precedent, not because there was any reasonable doubt.
Jeremy Utarid: rose, we don;t sit on tables:)
Michel Manen: yes i understand; what exactly will happen to her land since it seems as you say that she doesnt respond?
Michel Manen: j androse click on the recorder plz
Aliasi Stonebender: If she doesn’t pay her land fee, the same that happens to any other abandoned plot, I imagine.,
Michel Manen: th4 black box
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jeremy Utarid has indicated consent to be recorded.

Aliasi Stonebender: If she does, but doesn’t complain about the signs or try to set them back out… well, that’s more or less desirable, no?
Michel Manen: i see. thank you
Michel Manen: and if she tries to set the signs back? what is our procedure thre?
Aliasi Stonebender: File a case with the SC again. We *do* need an official policy regarding sentencing, I think, but that is not my area.
Aliasi Stonebender: The cops don’t sentence you, they only take you to the judge to BE sentenced.
Michel Manen: yes we do indeed – we have no justice system at the momnet.. 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: and the guidelines FOR the sentencing is usually done by the legislature.
Justice Soothsayer: not true, michel, we have the SC
Aliasi Stonebender: which is to say, you guys.
Michel Manen: indeed
Jeremy Utarid: pardon me, but why are talking of sentencing… ais this being criminalized?
Rose Springvale: but sentencing applyes to criminal
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: ‘yes go ahead J
Rose Springvale: this is civil
Jeremy Utarid: this a classic abatment of a nuisance
Michel Manen: well here we dont have a separatio between criminal and civil
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s a violation of the covenant, it’s kind of a ‘criminal’ act by definition, Jeremy.
Jeremy Utarid: or violation of an contract;; covenant
Rose Springvale: no, it’s clearly civil’
Aliasi Stonebender: No.
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s clearly civil if we were persuing this in a real world court of law.
Jeremy Utarid: thre is no crime unless there is a criminatl statute
Jeremy Utarid: the remedy is civial in nature
Rose Springvale: but since we are dealing with an online contractual issu
Justice Soothsayer: quite right, J & R
Rose Springvale: and a breach has clearly occured
Rose Springvale: the idea of sentencing is inappropriate
Rose Springvale: forfeiture is
Aliasi Stonebender: *shrugs* it’s as logical to talk of the CDS as a non-profit co-operative dealing with server resources as it is to call it a micronation.
Rose Springvale: no
Rose Springvale: actually
Aliasi Stonebender: So I don’t really see where we need to care what it “ought” to be, except insofar as the laws passed by the RA demand.
Rose Springvale: because jus as we have a right to depend on the enforcement of the covenants when we buy, we have a responsibility to abide by them as we would ANY real world contract
Jeremy Utarid: i agree
Rose Springvale: i’m sorry, is there a way to turn off the fog
Jeremy Utarid: in fact. every indidual in a coveant violatin has a cause of action
Justice Soothsayer: ctrl-alt-shift-minus sign, Rose
Rose Springvale: thank you
Aliasi Stonebender: Ctrl-Alt-Shift-minus?
Michel Manen: lol
Rose Springvale: the thing is
Rose Springvale: because we all bought subject to the covenants, not enforcing them in effect nullifies them
Rose Springvale: once we dont’ apply the law, we lose the right to next time
Jeremy Utarid: it is called a novation and I agree with Rose
Justice Soothsayer: I think Ali was reporting that the covenants are in fact being enforced, right Ali?
Rose Springvale: okay
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: That is, in fact, the point.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, I had the impression that you were operating on kind of complaint system, is that a fair characterization?
Claude Desmoulins: ie…
Aliasi Stonebender: It has been my policy to first try to correct things informally, since many times the covenant violation is not intentional.
Aliasi Stonebender: It has, as opposed to seeking out violations.
Claude Desmoulins: Wait for someone to raise an issue as opposed to going around the sims looking for violations…oops.
Claude Desmoulins: Is there anything fundamentally wrong with that approach?
Rose Springvale: well
Michel Manen: i understadn thereasons why; btu also this puts a certain burden in citizens to complain doesnt it?
Rose Springvale: i see a couple of problems
Rose Springvale: one, we publish the covenants
Aliasi Stonebender: This does not mean I *cannot* independently get violations, as I often do when random visitors leave prims strewn about.
Aliasi Stonebender: However, again… the police do not skulk in dark alleyways, waiting for people to get mugged. If a violation is there, and obvious, sure.
Michel Manen: in tbtu as you said this one was obvious no?
Aliasi Stonebender: So, perhaps one can fault my handling of the ‘for sale’ signs.
Michel Manen: and it took about a month to be resolved 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: tbtu?
Michel Manen: but orry
Claude Desmoulins nods
Aliasi Stonebender: but again, I was going in conjunction with my stated policy of trying informal, polite reminders, first.
Rose Springvale: hmm
Jeremy Utarid: thre is nothing wrong with an informal approach… until it proves not to work
Michel Manen: I fully understand that.. however we should se certain timlines.. a month is quite a long time by SL standards i think…
Claude Desmoulins: Has it proven not to work, or merely to work slowly?
Jeremy Utarid: if the violation is deemed significant and informality does not work then sterner civil action is approproiarte
Rose Springvale: i’m sure the other issue is on the agenda
Aliasi Stonebender shrugs.
Rose Springvale: but it doesn’t seem to be even handedly applied
Rose Springvale: adn frankly
Aliasi Stonebender: If you don’t like the way I handle things, you know where the withdrawal vote is.
Claude Desmoulins: Rose, do you have specific examples?
Rose Springvale: that sign was clearly obvious, and having read the forum, vindictive
Michel Manen: well i think the CDS as a wole does not have appropriate guidelines for such situations
Rose Springvale: dave attenbourough
Aliasi Stonebender: What of him?
Rose Springvale: is the situation i’m most concerned with
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: my understanding is that his sculpture was deleted from our joint property
Rose Springvale: without notice

Rose Springvale: and that he was threatened with expulsion from cDs
Rose Springvale: in less than a weeks time
Rose Springvale: yet the sign
Rose Springvale: specifically enumerated
Rose Springvale: in our covenants
Rose Springvale: stayed over a month
Rose Springvale: even though Carolyn made clear she was doing it to be a pain
Aliasi Stonebender: I do not make a habit of checking the script time tool on a daily basis, Rose.
Rose Springvale: Dave is a citizen, or was at the time
Rose Springvale: i have no idea what that means aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: and I do believe I have the right to take immediate action if the object is endangering the sim.
Rose Springvale: i just know that none of us were even advised there was a problem
Aliasi Stonebender: and a scripted object that takes FIVE MILLISECONDS
Rose Springvale: it was up for three weeks i believe
Aliasi Stonebender: of script time damn well violates the covenant.
Claude Desmoulins: What do you mean danger to the sim?
Rose Springvale: and he’s had no issues in the thre other sims it’s in
Rose Springvale: yes, please elaborate
Rose Springvale: and be that as it may
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay, I’d like to direct everyone to the Ctrl-Shift-1? menu
Rose Springvale: notice, would be appropriate
Rose Springvale: and threatening expulsion?
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, thus is news to me, please bear with my ignorance.
Claude Desmoulins: *this
Michel Manen: ok the menu?
Aliasi Stonebender: You see the list of statistics?
Michel Manen: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: if you click on the “Time (ms)”, it will expand out.
Rose Springvale: wait
Rose Springvale: wait
Rose Springvale: that isn’t the point
Rose Springvale: even if it was in violation
Aliasi Stonebender: It very much IS the point.
Rose Springvale: a quick im
Rose Springvale: to me or dave or michel
Aliasi Stonebender: That sculpture is a lag magnet.
Rose Springvale: would have solved the issue
Rose Springvale: it was not an intentional violation
Rose Springvale: and dave was singled out
Rose Springvale: and as a person paying a huge amount for my property every month
Aliasi Stonebender: Because that’s the only object in the sim that was taking up a third of our processing power.
Rose Springvale: how can that be?
Rose Springvale: how could it be there for so long then?
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay, Rose, estate managers have access to a tool to see the total script time used by all objects in the sim.
Rose Springvale: and given the lack of activithy in the sim
Rose Springvale: that’s great
Aliasi Stonebender: And that is, in fact, how it was unnoticed for so long.
Rose Springvale: so when there is an issue
Rose Springvale: if it was unnoticed that long
Aliasi Stonebender: if the sim only has one or two people, the heavy load does not show itself.
Rose Springvale: would a couple of hours to treat it in a respectful manner have been an issue?
Rose Springvale: that is my point
Rose Springvale: we have a person who is a great asset to our sim
Rose Springvale: a person who does things
Rose Springvale: and he was threatened with expulsion
Rose Springvale: based on MY advice
Rose Springvale: i wasn’t even given the courtesy of an im
Rose Springvale: that is my point
Jeremy Utarid: you spoke the significant word Rose… coutesy
Michel Manen: i understand what you mean Aliasi .. but from a legal point of view, the procedures in both carolyns and Daves cases should follow certain similar procedures no?
Aliasi Stonebender: Michel, if someone was to rez a gray-goo object in the sim, I would not wait politely to delete it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Citizen or no.
Rose Springvale: this wars on the site THREE weeksz
Rose Springvale: without comment
Rose Springvale: we had the art curators there
Rose Springvale: reviewing it for the museum
Michel Manen: indeed
Rose Springvale: no one knew it was an issue
Aliasi Stonebender: And, during those three weeks, I was on at my customary time – which is near midnight, US time.
Rose Springvale: i assure you, one word, and we’d have taken it down immediately
Rose Springvale: and dave would still be working in his studio
Rose Springvale: i’m often on at midnight sltime
Rose Springvale: michel is always on then
Rose Springvale: and ims’ go to my email
Claude Desmoulins: I wasn’t privy to any ofthe actual communications in question. Am I right, Aliasi, that you understood the sculpture to be a more significant threat to the sim because of its script usage?
Michel Manen: my main concern here is consistency of procedures, not singling out any one action
Rose Springvale: i am also concerne with the threat of expulsion of a citizen without the opportunity for review
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m getting a sense that the breakdown here was perhaps more one of communication or lack thereof.
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: okay
Claude Desmoulins: That does have a procedure.
Michel Manen: well rose we no longer have justice system
Aliasi Stonebender: Also, I was not aware Dave *was* a citizen.
Rose Springvale: i asked about the sing a week before it was deleted
Rose Springvale: dave is
Claude Desmoulins: We have the SC.
Michel Manen: wxcuse me? you didnt know dave was a citizen?
Claude Desmoulins: Estate managers have ban powers, must publish any bans they issue and said bans are subject to SC review,
Justice Soothsayer: yes, michel, please stop saying we don’t have a justice system, we have the SC.
Rose Springvale: okay
Michel Manen: that is not a jusrice sysastem
Claude Desmoulins: Can anyone show me an accurate list?
Rose Springvale: so why did dave feel that he had no choie but leave
Michel Manen: the SC never meets
Rose Springvale: without sc review?
Michel Manen: it didnt meet in carolyns case
Rose Springvale: okay
Rose Springvale: i’ve made my point, you all can debate the systems if you want.
Justice Soothsayer: Ali, can’t someone agrieved by something you’ve done complain about it to the SC for review?
Aliasi Stonebender: That is the problem.
Rose Springvale: but anytime someone can be a citzen and be threatened becaues he disagrees with a policy…
Claude Desmoulins: If you want to know why the SC does or doesn’t meet. you could ask them.
Rose Springvale: well
Aliasi Stonebender: He is not listed in the listy of land owners, and I am not aware of him ever having an individual parcel to meet with the group-ownership status.
Rose Springvale: we are really reaching by includingt the word democratic in our name
Michel Manen: well that still means we do not have a functioning justice system claude
Rose Springvale: do yo not have a list of group members?
Jeremy Utarid: I am confused… if there is a site manager who possesess botht he authority and the techhnical power to take action and exercises the power regualarly, why the pretense that there is a government in control of things?
Michel Manen: and no rule of law
Rose Springvale: dave wast the purchasing partner of CIH
Claude Desmoulins: Will creating more structure solve that?
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Claude Desmoulins: Rose.
Rose Springvale: yes?
Aliasi Stonebender: There is a list of group members, rose, but the SL list is not authorative.
Michel Manen: dave was here for over 3 weeks
Aliasi Stonebender: there are several people in my own land-owning group (for the technical ease of announcements, setting it as a home point) who are not citizens.
Rose Springvale: no .. the ScULPTURE was
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s all acknowledge that Dave’s departure wasn’t what anyone wanted.
Michel Manen: sudane knew abut it
Michel Manen: well we must make sure this neever happens again
Rose Springvale: again, an issue that could have been addressed with mere notice
Rose Springvale: i want to bring dave back
Claude Desmoulins: How do we fix the situation that allowed things to slip between the cracks?
Rose Springvale: well
Aliasi Stonebender: Rose, I do find your “but it was there for THREE WEEKS!” comment a bit puzzling, though
Rose Springvale: some things seem self evited
Rose Springvale: evident
Michel Manen: we have proper rexords, procedures and a funcrioning justice system
Aliasi Stonebender: If I am doing some illegal action, and I am not found out about for three weeks, it does not become less illegal.
Rose Springvale: you may ask Top… he and Delia wer there the night he rezzed the structure at my request
Rose Springvale: but the point is aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: if the action is one directly harmful to the technical health of the sim, that too does not seem to matter.
Rose Springvale: we didn’t know
Michel Manen: i meant that since sudane knew from day one dave wasa citizen 3 weeks hould be enough for the Chancellor to know it too
Rose Springvale: there is no way i’m going to become a computer wiz kid
Aliasi Stonebender: Rose, I assure you, anyone who WAS a scripter would know right away.
Rose Springvale: so if something on my property is illegal
Aliasi Stonebender: As Dave was the creator of the sculpture, I am presuming he would.
Rose Springvale: a quick note will take care of it
Rose Springvale: he didn’t know it was illegal
Rose Springvale: and he is an artist
Rose Springvale: so?
Rose Springvale: he is also very sensitive
Claude Desmoulins: Problem one here was that Aliasi didn’t know Dave was a citizen.
Michel Manen: indeed
Rose Springvale: agreed
Rose Springvale: adn
Michel Manen: after 3 weeks
Rose Springvale: that no notice was given
Rose Springvale: and
Claude Desmoulins: Had she known that, I imagine a situation comparable to Carolyn’s would have ensued.
Rose Springvale: that expulsion is not an appropriate threat
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes.
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: that isnt’ consisten with what’s been said here
Rose Springvale: if the scupture was so dangersous
Rose Springvale: would it have been given such deference?
Rose Springvale: and
Rose Springvale: it is clear that carolyn’s point was antagonism
Rose Springvale: daves was art
Claude Desmoulins: The EO is reponsible for publishing the list of citizens per NL 5-15.
Rose Springvale: EO?
Justice Soothsayer: Estate Owner
Aliasi Stonebender: Estate Owner.
Rose Springvale: thank you
Aliasi Stonebender: However, the list on neufreistadt.info is badly out of date
Rose Springvale: all the more reason to give the benefit of the doubt to the citizens
Aliasi Stonebender: So I’ve been left to trying to piece it from the land record and the last eligible voter’s list.
Rose Springvale: so again, a lack of communication
Rose Springvale: this time between the eo and the chancellor
Rose Springvale: may i suggest
Rose Springvale: that other sims use a group chat for issues
Rose Springvale: and such would be easy to institute in CDS
Rose Springvale: and then the issue would have been a momentary thing
Rose Springvale: instead of a series of policies, procedures and hearings
Claude Desmoulins: We have a group if the citizens would join it.
Aliasi Stonebender: This is all a very fine and sound idea.
Aliasi Stonebender: Although there’s another problem behind that as well.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: i still havent been invited to join the CDS citizens group Claude
Aliasi Stonebender: Neither I nor Sudane are paid, or receive any compensation. I’m Chancellor largely because nobody cares enough to run.
Aliasi Stonebender: Any work we do for the CDS must be fit around the edges.
Aliasi Stonebender: Quite frankly, if the RA voted to remove me next meeting, my response would be something like “meh”.
Rose Springvale: okay, i’m going to excuse myself
Aliasi Stonebender: You get the quality you pay for, kiddies.
Rose Springvale: obviously this issue is not connected
Rose Springvale: thank you
Pelanor Eldrich: ?!?
Michel Manen: aliasi this is not a personal matter; it is a question of how we manage our community and coduct ourselves as officials
Nikki Maertens: Bye Rose.
Justice Soothsayer: not sure what “meh” means, but I think I have the gist
Pelanor Eldrich: can someone bring me up to date?
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m saying that at the time, I thought I was returning a badly-written, sim-instabilizing objects
Michel Manen: at present we have no rule of law, no procedures, no up to date frecords
Jeremy Utarid: thank you all:)
Aliasi Stonebender: and I’m getting bitched at for walking all over the ego of a sensitive artiste
Michel Manen: i find that deply trubling
Michel Manen: and so do many other citiznes
Aliasi Stonebender: Furthe more, she didn’t mention after I’d returned it
Michel Manen: thank you claude
Aliasi Stonebender: Dave went to the trouble of rezzing it again, but hiding it in the ground!
Justice Soothsayer: it sounds like you did the right thing, Ali. You still have the confidence of this RA member.
Aliasi Stonebender: And basically gave me the finger via IM.
Aliasi Stonebender: So, honestly… I stand by my actions. I will continue to stand by my acitons.
Claude Desmoulins: Michel I do think we could tighten up the procedures here. Having something at least in writing would help everyone know how things work,
Michel Manen: great
Michel Manen: lets do that
Pelanor Eldrich: and a formal process?
Aliasi Stonebender: I can agree with that much. I’ll also allow I am not as diplomatic as might be called for.
Michel Manen: and avoid such awkward situations for all in the future
Michel Manen: we also need to keep up to date citizens records
Michel Manen: avaialble publicly for all
Pelanor Eldrich: We *must* fill that RA archivist position, IMHO
Claude Desmoulins: I also have the sense that Aliasi, however pointed her communications may have been, took the action she did because of what she understood to be a serious threat to the functioning of the sim.
Michel Manen: and we must come to terms with the factb that whatever anyone else say, we have de facto no functioning justice system
Michel Manen: yes i dont question aliasi’s intentions
Michel Manen: i have never doubted her dedication to CDS
Michel Manen: and do not now
Pelanor Eldrich: ditto
Michel Manen: anyone willingto take on the job hse is doing deserves bnothing but our gratitude; the problem is not aliasi but our failure to have rules, records, procedures and a justice system
Claude Desmoulins: Are there other issues to discuss?
Michel Manen: well events in CDS would be a good topic i think
Justice Soothsayer: Ali, do you need any more help with the telehub?
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s not really a hard job, just time-consuming.
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, at it’s heart, I’m intending something like the teleporter/vendors you see in many sims.
Aliasi Stonebender: that is, you choose a destination, and go there.
Aliasi Stonebender: however, there’s current a bug
Aliasi Stonebender: with the “warpPos” function many people use for such things.
Michel Manen: warpPos?
Aliasi Stonebender: It doesn’t NEED to be scripted with warpPos, mind
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s a workaround to allow a prim to basically be moved any distance instantly, Michel.
Michel Manen: ok
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s better than the old-fashioned sit-target trick, as sit-targets are limited to 200 meters in each axis.
Michel Manen: sorry how do i get rid of he statistics screen?
Aliasi Stonebender: so while I’ve got the basic code handy, it won’t exactly work until LL fixes it. They had it fixed, then rolled back the fix because the fix was crashing people. 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: Ctrl-Shift-1? again.
Michel Manen: tks
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sorry but I have to go.
Aliasi Stonebender: So, it’s not ENTIRELY being busy on my part. I’m also not real willing to implement a half-baked version if LL fixes this next maintance day.
Michel Manen: well can we make this meeting official once a month at least?
Justice Soothsayer: well, we had 4 of 5 RA members, so a good turnout even if we did spend a lot on one issue.
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s supposed to be. I’d make the actual RA meeting if I could, but schedules just don’t work out
Justice Soothsayer: yes, if would be good to meet w Ali at least once a month.
Michel Manen: so lets set the date for the next one as long as were all here plesae
Michel Manen: and the time
Justice Soothsayer: well, 3 of 5 RA members, Michel.
Michel Manen: as may as could make it 🙂
Michel Manen: many
Justice Soothsayer: gang’s not quite all here 😉
Michel Manen: at least we had a quorum 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: what does next meeting’s agenda topics look like?
Justice Soothsayer: or, I should say, not all the gang was here!
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway… let me show you what I was talking of
Michel Manen: tuesday 19 april at 7 pm slt sounds good to everyone?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to get a Publius housecleaning bill, a head of state bill, and in 2-4 wks submit a franch application. All debated a priori on the forums of course.
Aliasi Stonebender: should work
Michel Manen: great lets set then the next meeting for tuesday 19 april at 7 pm slt here in the rathaus
Justice Soothsayer: april 19 is a thursday
Michel Manen: sorry april 17 then
Justice Soothsayer: and a problem for me
Justice Soothsayer: but the 17th is OK
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s the next RA/Chancellor meeting or reg. RA meeting?
Michel Manen: everyone ok with 17 april at 7 pm slt?
Michel Manen: RAA/ Chnacellor
Aliasi Stonebender: alright, just as an informational thing…
Pelanor Eldrich: got it, thx
Aliasi Stonebender: okay with me
Ranma Tardis: afraid my shift has me tied, see you all around latter
Aliasi Stonebender: see the screenshot I have up?
Michel Manen: yes
Justice Soothsayer: yes but fuzzy
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s the estate-manager tool for scripts.
Michel Manen: ok
Aliasi Stonebender: if it’s rezzed fully, you’ll note there’s a candle taking 3 ms. which I intend to track down shortly.
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, this is how I diagnosed the issue.
Justice Soothsayer: candle is downstairs, i think
Aliasi Stonebender: a sim, normally, shouldn’t have the scripts in it taking more than maybe 15ms total.
Michel Manen: great. lets set properet procedures for dealing with this and update regularly our citiznens list and this shouldnth appen again 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: (avatars and their attachments are added on TOP of this.)
Justice Soothsayer: interesting demo
Justice Soothsayer: thanks
Aliasi Stonebender: so, here, about 10.9 ms total, and you can see in statistics the sim is 17.3 ms, which means it’s taking 7ms to run US.
Justice Soothsayer: but i need to head out now.
Pelanor Eldrich: Very nice Ali, maybe we can put the 15ms limit in the covenant.
Justice Soothsayer: thanks, again, AIl.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I’d go for more a tighter limit and time based, rather than the current “number of scripts”
Justice Soothsayer: night all
Aliasi Stonebender: since a sit-target script, for example, isn’t doing anything.
Nikki Maertens: Bye
Michel Manen: thank you alisai for taking te time to meet us
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s on my list, soon as I work out technical details.
The meeting closed at 20:19 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 25, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (15, 166, 41)

Meeting on 2007-03-25
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Well, we’re all here.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we begin?
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ranma Tardis: keep losing connection tonight 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: Agenda is in the dispenser on the table. Please remember to touch the recorder.
Claude Desmoulins: Any reports?
Ranma Tardis: the warlocks are breaking my signal for just long enough to disconnect
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t have any reports claude, don’t know if anyone else has
Claude Desmoulins: Pulius, the code revision process?
Publius Crabgrass: slow, Claude, very slow.
Michel Manen: hi sudance good to see you 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami waves ‘hi’ to sudane 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: My apologies, but I really havent had much time to work on it, but will try in the next week. I’ve only had limited response to my request for comments on….
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: the scheme laying out those bills that are “historical”, “current”, etc.
Publius Crabgrass: I did write a brief report on our constitutional changes since the last meeting, and see that it is on the agenda for review.
Claude Desmoulins: I gues it’s time to start bugging committee members:)
Publius Crabgrass: I’ve also updated the Constitution in the books here, Rathaus, and elsewhere, to reflect the latest version.
Publius Crabgrass: I’ll bug the other commission members this week, Claude.
Patroklus Murakami: ty for that publius, that sounds like a considerable piece of work!
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for your work, Pub.
Claude Desmoulins: Since Sudane is here can we do the Roll bill first?
Michel Manen: yes
Sudane Erato: ahh… I have 2 small notices
Patroklus Murakami: sure
Sudane Erato: if i might?
Claude Desmoulins: Pat, yhis was your submission. Would you like to speak to it?
Michel Manen: please
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: 1…. i have now entered into the database 5 small rpim parcels for CN residents owning parcels within the walls
Sudane Erato: these are available on the same basis that prim parcels in NFS are
Sudane Erato: one per parcel
Sudane Erato: for in walls parcels only
Sudane Erato: PLEASE
Sudane Erato: ask for them only if you need them
Sudane Erato: there are only 5
Sudane Erato: 2……
Sudane Erato: I will shortly be revamping the way I collect monthly fees
Sudane Erato: I have had a new system craeted for me for other sims i am involved with
Claude Desmoulins listens
Sudane Erato: so I will use it here, until such time as we get a fully integrated system
Sudane Erato: which may be some time off
Sudane Erato: this is a simple payment box system
Sudane Erato: which uses L$ only
Sudane Erato: that will be a change for some people
Sudane Erato: but it will hardly cost people anything
Sudane Erato: it will be a very simple system of automated messages
Claude Desmoulins: What about those who choose to pay in $USD
Claude Desmoulins: /
Sudane Erato: with the process of paying your fee to the box
Sudane Erato: i will remove that option…
Sudane Erato: if the RA wishes to force that issue
Michel Manen: we are going to have one box fro the sim or one per lot?
Sudane Erato: then I’ll ahve to comply
Sudane Erato: there will be one box for each citizen who is paying monthly fees
Justice Soothsayer: how many pay in $USD?
Claude Desmoulins: So we’re essentially asking the citizens to pay all the conversion fees?
Sudane Erato: about 4 or 5 people pay in US$ now
Sudane Erato: the conversion fee, to buy L$ is US$1.00 per transaction
Sudane Erato: hardly a burden
Sudane Erato: it is imperative that I autoimate this system somehow
Sudane Erato: since I am unable to properly adminsiter the system manually
Sudane Erato: its getting very difficult
Sudane Erato: and this system is very simple
Claude Desmoulins: You might need to contact $USD payers individually to give them warning.
Sudane Erato: of course I wioll
Sudane Erato: and provide a grace period as well
Patroklus Murakami: i think that anything we can do to automate this system should be supported. it must take huge amounts of (unnecessary) work to administer our current system in two currencies
Patroklus Murakami: i run rental bots on my shops in Orient, admin is a breeze!
Sudane Erato: well, there still will be the necessary 2 currencies
Sudane Erato: since the tier is in US$
Sudane Erato: but this will make it much simpler
Ranma Tardis: yes but it was one of the only advantages, now that will be gone as well
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i meant accepting it in two. i take your point sudane
Sudane Erato: you know, of course, how i reqquest that you IM me when you make your transaction
Michel Manen: can we have a central sim pay box rather than one per each lot?
Sudane Erato: that will no longer be necessary
Sudane Erato: the boxes will be located centrally
Michel Manen: ok
Sudane Erato: all will be together… like a post office
Michel Manen: perfect ):
Sudane Erato: one for each sim
Ranma Tardis: you are talking about meters like Caledon?
Sudane Erato: one location
Sudane Erato: no… no meters
Sudane Erato: just a single monthly payment.. an extremely simple script
Sudane Erato: the important quality are the reminders and the noticews
Patroklus Murakami: so would our payment go out automatically? or through a reminder to pay within a certain period?
Sudane Erato: no, you’ll have to go in person, touch the box with your name on it, and pay
Publius Crabgrass: would those who aren;t going to be in world for a while be able to pay ahead?
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i see
Sudane Erato: the box will respond only to the person whose name is on it
Sudane Erato: hmmm Publius
Sudane Erato: that will be difficult
Patroklus Murakami: this sounds like a positive development, i hope it saves you some time sudane 🙂
Michel Manen: in remindeers and notices will we be informed of the maount owed?
Sudane Erato: Michel, yes
Publius Crabgrass: Im thinking of folks like Ranma who may have sporadic access as shes in Iraq
Sudane Erato: and Pat, yes… I dearly hope so
Sudane Erato: we now have 70 people
Sudane Erato: thats very hard to keep up with
Sudane Erato: in a reasonable amount of time
Sudane Erato: to answer Publius in more detail
Sudane Erato: to pay in adbvance, i will have to disconnect your box
Sudane Erato: and accept the payment manually
Patroklus Murakami: can you script the box to start glowing red, shaking and emiting steam if people are late with the rent? that would be fun to see 🙂
Sudane Erato: and then reconnect when the advance payment runs out
Michel Manen: LOL!!!
Ranma Tardis: my access comes and goes, the ecm and eccm
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: no, it will just send nasty emails and IMs to you 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else?
Publius Crabgrass: good, as long as there is the possibility for manual override in such cases. I’m surprised you haven’t automated already, given the burden as we grow.
Sudane Erato: Ranma, then we will need to make special arrtangements
Claude Desmoulins: When will the new system go live?
Sudane Erato: :)… I would have loved to Publius
Ranma Tardis: I get enough nasty in my life, sigh
Sudane Erato: don’t know exactly Claude
Sudane Erato: asap
Sudane Erato: I’ll provide more details, of course
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move to the Roll bill.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i hope everyone has seen teh discussion on the forums?
Michel Manen: yes
Publius Crabgrass: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i wanted to make the point here that is in no way meant to be a slight on anyone
Patroklus Murakami: but we’ve arrived at a situation where it’s not entirely clear who is/is not a citizen and this is a critical issue for a democratic community
Michel Manen: indeed
Patroklus Murakami: i see this bill (or the same end arrived at through an administrative policy) as the starting point for putting things right
Michel Manen: starting point.. .well said
Patroklus Murakami: we know there are difficulties in assessing who is/is not a citizen. well, let’s get that out in the open, prepare a list using what we know and then see what teh scale of the problem is
Patroklus Murakami: i think that will enable us to solve the problem and move on
Patroklus Murakami: but we need to know where we stand first
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all from me, happy to answer questions and hear others’ views
Michel Manen: yes i atotally agree we should tie this with a revision of our citizenship rules
Michel Manen: as sudane mentioned previously
Patroklus Murakami: no michel, i’m not tying this with a revision of our citizenhsip rules. that’s a separate issue
Michel Manen: we need to address citizenship through group matters
Michel Manen: well then you should pat
Michel Manen: let me give an example
Patroklus Murakami: this may well lead to discussion of our citizenship rules. that would probably be a useful debate to have. but it’s not on the floor today
Michel Manen: rose springvale has hired an attorney who hasa joined the group; to become a citizen, US must sell him a lot, which then he must deed to the group
Michel Manen: this is very cumbersome and also shows that our curetn rules are easily circumvented
Michel Manen: so if we decide to have an up to date list of citizens
Patroklus Murakami: US?
Michel Manen: Utarid and Springvales law offices
Claude Desmoulins: I agree with Pat that linking the two will bog us down. Addressing this issue should be straightforward. Changing citizenship rules is a much more complex matter. I have no problem working on that issue, but let’s do them as tow items.
Claude Desmoulins: *two
Michel Manen: we must have a sensible manner to decide who goes on the list in the first place
Michel Manen: i dont see how the two can be separated
Michel Manen: sudane what do you think?
Patroklus Murakami: no michel, we have a manner for deciding on citizenship already. but mistakes have been made
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: yes, group membership must be clarified, but I thought the point o pat’s bill was to jumpstart getting a new, good list of citiens.
Michel Manen: well thats my point
Michel Manen: if we dont know who gets on the list the list cannot be good
Sudane Erato: the issue of whether the issues are dealt with separately or together is not a concern to me…. of concern is simply that the issues are dealt with
Claude Desmoulins: Normally I’d be concerned that Pat’s bill was micromanaging the exec.
Sudane Erato: they are Extremely important issues…
Patroklus Murakami: no, that’s not accurate michel. we *can* work out who is a citizen according to our current rules
Michel Manen: all i am sying is that pats bill is ineffective as long as we dont know who is a citizen and who isnt
Sudane Erato: and we verge on the edge of big problems if we don’t fix them
Ranma Tardis: I was against the group membership due to the problems
Claude Desmoulins: But we’ve had clear instances where the lack of a published list has caused problems.
Michel Manen: well ia gree with sudane
Michel Manen: pats bill is meaningless as is
Michel Manen: just patchwork
Patroklus Murakami: actually the law is very clear on this. but publishing a list will allow us to work out whether there are any big issues to resolve
Justice Soothsayer: still, the list of citizens needs patching, apparently, as we heard last week.
Michel Manen: well clearly there are
Patroklus Murakami: the bill is not meaningless
Michel Manen: it is if we dont know who goes on the list
Claude Desmoulins: If this is such a concern to you, Michel, you would be better served to draft a PCA with a propoal for changing how citizenship is determined, no?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m surprised to see an advocate of transparency rubbish a proposal aimed at providing a clear up to date list of our citizens
Sudane Erato: i would say that considering that the issue of citizenship will take some time to define… we sould at least take the simple step of approving Pat’s bill
Claude Desmoulins: Five more minutes please, so we have time for Beathan’s bill
Michel Manen: i belive in common decision making claude, lets first agree on the basic principle
Michel Manen: i dont rubbish it pat; i said ia gree inprinciple
Sudane Erato: quite hoestly, Alaisi and I could do it anyway
Patroklus Murakami: the basic principle is transparency
Sudane Erato: without a bill
Michel Manen: but not if it doenst have the underlying framwework that will truly help us deal with hte problems at habd
Michel Manen: hand
Patroklus Murakami: what ‘underlying framework’ do you mean? a redefinition of citizenship that hasn’t begun to be discussed?
Claude Desmoulins: The only real change in Pat’s bill is to set a month update requirement.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s putting the cart before teh horse!
Claude Desmoulins: *monthly
Claude Desmoulins: 5-15 already requires a public list.
Patroklus Murakami: yes claude, that’s teh only change
Michel Manen: sudane brought up the issue some weeks ago
Michel Manen: how long do we need?
Publius Crabgrass: at least long enough for someone to write a bill!
Patroklus Murakami: well, we need a discussion and a proposal and neither are on the agenda right now
Sudane Erato: we will publish the existing list
Michel Manen: well lets first agree on principles and thee bill is easily done
Sudane Erato: I will stand behind the fact that it includes all valid citizens
Michel Manen: ok
Patroklus Murakami: publishing the existing list will flush out all the inconsistencies and issues to resolve
Justice Soothsayer: I agree that having the citizen list will be helpful; making it monthly also brings it in line with billing practices.
Sudane Erato: it will be at least monthly
Claude Desmoulins: I’m also inclined not to tell the exec how to cross its t’s and dot its i’s
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Michel Manen: so basically what your bill does is ask sudane to publish a list and update it monthly given our current rules which are not really functional
Michel Manen: shrugs
Patroklus Murakami sighs
Publius Crabgrass giggles
Patroklus Murakami: our current rules are perfectly functional
Sudane Erato: well, Michel, they are functional
Sudane Erato: I would say they are limited
Sudane Erato: craeted for a simpler time
Sudane Erato: and they must be updated
Michel Manen: ok functionally limited
Michel Manen: lol
Patroklus Murakami: but they are potentially confusing and have not been correctly implemented. hence the problem
Sudane Erato: Newtons Law’s were functional
Sudane Erato: until Einstein came along
Michel Manen: so why arent we dealing with this instead of arguing about it ??
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: we need a bill
Patroklus Murakami: LOL! why indeed
Sudane Erato: I will publish the existing list
Michel Manen: well lets agree on pricniples and the bill is easily done
Claude Desmoulins: Time’s up
Patroklus Murakami: could we put this to the vote?
Publius Crabgrass: i’m ready to vote too
Claude Desmoulins: The question has been called.
Patroklus Murakami: i vote ‘aye’
Publius Crabgrass votes Aye
Michel Manen: abstains
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next. 6-3 Dispute Resolution Expedition
Publius Crabgrass: This is Beathan’s bill as posted on the forums. It really hasn;t drawn any heated objections.
Publius Crabgrass: or much discussion, for that matter.
Michel Manen: well its totally miscoceived and no one wanted to get into a huge forum fight again i guess
Patroklus Murakami: what does this add to our exising law? we already have an arbitration act http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-index.php?page=NL+5-20
Claude Desmoulins: The big question that this asks is , what is our “default” method to be.
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: why do we need a further law? i couldn’t understand the purpose of this
Michel Manen: i agree with pat
Justice Soothsayer: It sort of tells the SC to get moving on setting up a system of arbitrators.
Claude Desmoulins: Will we have mostly litigation, mostly arbitration, or do we leave disputants largely free to choose which model they want.
Michel Manen: which is not the SC ‘s role to do
Michel Manen: well claude indeed
Michel Manen: thats the real issue
Claude Desmoulins: The big thing I notice was that it makes arbitration the default.
Claude Desmoulins: Section 3
Patroklus Murakami: well, this may have found little objection but it’s also found very little support. i can’t see why we should stack the system in this way. if we want to tell the SC to ‘get a move on’ then surely there are other ways of doing so?
Michel Manen: yes
Michel Manen: my only additional comment
Justice Soothsayer: Quite, Pat. My point was that this bill might be more properly brought to the SC as a suggestion about how to implement arbitration.
Michel Manen: is that in adition to voting down the bill we should make a comment that we will conssider the issue of the proper structure of our judiciary as a matter of priority
Patroklus Murakami groans
Patroklus Murakami: still flogging that horse, eh? 🙂
Ranma Tardis: sighs
Michel Manen: yes i do belive we need in independetn judiciary and the rule of law here pat… sorry if you think its a dead horse
Justice Soothsayer: I believe in those goals of rule of law too, but we don’t agree on how to get there.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s not get into a high flown debate about the ‘rule of law’ and the primacy of reason. it all gets a little too pompous for my likin
Michel Manen: well lets do this in a friendly and collaborative fashion and well arrive at an agreement
Michel Manen: sorry pat ill send you coles notes then
Patroklus Murakami: we have some fairly fundamental questions to unpack if we want to make progress on that issue. i don’t see much sense of that right now
Michel Manen: all i proposed is a statement of intent
Claude Desmoulins: OTOH, If one has concerns about the SC functioning as a court, this bill would likely reduce the number of disputes that would reach the SC.
Michel Manen: not dealing with it now
Patroklus Murakami: and we have more urgent tasks to attend to than allowing some people the opportunity to play at being lawyers
Michel Manen: ok i wont get into a shuting match with you pat
Justice Soothsayer: I think its fair to say that arbitration has its place, but we need to come to a conclusion as to the overall structure before we build this bit.
Michel Manen: yes justice
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we table? I think this bill raises broader issues that need carefull and broad discussion.
Michel Manen: my point exactly
Patroklus Murakami: one thing we never really resolved during the whole judiciary debate was why we needed one in teh first place! that needs to be our starting point. what is it for?
Michel Manen: well
Michel Manen: i dont think this bill as it stands adds anything, as p at said
Michel Manen: i propoase to vote
Justice Soothsayer: I agree we should table
Publius Crabgrass: I won’t object to tabling this.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to vote on it. if we table it, don’t we keep it in play?
Michel Manen: exactly
Michel Manen: im with pat
Michel Manen: claude?
Patroklus Murakami: or we could invite beathan to the next RA
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, if yours was a motion to table, I’ll second it.
Michel Manen: claude you wnt to table or vote?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table to give Beathan a chance to address us at the next meeting or providemore information since it was his proposal,
Publius Crabgrass: tabling could let Beathan come and defend it . We could hold the meeting at the Colliseum and sell tickets.
Michel Manen: shrugs
Sudane Erato: hehe
Michel Manen: is that the best use of our time given the bill ads nothing?
Claude Desmoulins: Bread and circuses for the metaverse 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: My sense, Michel, is that it doesnt add “nothing”, but is one building block in what may eventually become a structure of a legal system.
Michel Manen: i still think we should vote up or doen now
Publius Crabgrass: sounds to me like we’ve got 3 votes to table this.
Patroklus Murakami: i think we have 3/4 votes to table so that seems like the likely outcome
Claude Desmoulins: Our procedure says”
Claude Desmoulins: ere may be up to 3 polls taken: 1. Is the topic ready for a vote?
Claude Desmoulins: *there
Claude Desmoulins: So we shall poll on whether to vote.
Michel Manen: ok
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of voting up or down on the bill now,
Michel Manen: aye
Justice Soothsayer: No
Publius Crabgrass: No
Patroklus Murakami: i vote nay, table it
Michel Manen: aye
Michel Manen: lol
Justice Soothsayer: one avatar, one vote.
Michel Manen: sorry
Sudane Erato: haha
Claude Desmoulins: the chair abstains
Claude Desmoulins: Motion to vote carries.
Claude Desmoulins: At this point
Michel Manen: very consistent pat as usual
Publius Crabgrass: Point of order – how does it carry? There were 2 votes yes, 2 votes no.
Patroklus Murakami: so no shouting, just sniping michel?
Publius Crabgrass: Motions take more than a majority, and 50% isn’t a majority.
Claude Desmoulins: We may either place it on next agenda or refer back to the author with a request for more information
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry
Claude Desmoulins: motion to vote fails
Claude Desmoulins: 1-3-1
Claude Desmoulins: Manen for
Claude Desmoulins: Murakami. Soothsayer, Crabgrass against
Claude Desmoulins: Desmoulins abstain
Publius Crabgrass: thanks for the clarification.
Michel Manen: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can put it on next weeks agenda or refer it back to Beathan with a request for more info.
Publius Crabgrass: and ticket sales.
Claude Desmoulins: Or we can drop the topic.
Publius Crabgrass: Well, Claude, you have the power of setting the agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like it to go back to beathan with a request for clarification/explanation
Michel Manen: drop it – we have more important things to discuss in our limited time – which btew has run out today
Sudane Erato: sorry…. must go
Patroklus Murakami: bye sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Publius, will you invite Beathan to submit some more explanation on his rationale, before we have our next meeting?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Michel Manen: bye bye for now sudance.. thanks for attending 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: will do
Ranma Tardis: bye bye
Claude Desmoulins: We are out of time
Patroklus Murakami: bye ranma 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: IS there any objection to adjournment?
Patroklus Murakami: no
Publius Crabgrass: nope
Justice Soothsayer: No
Michel Manen: nay
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned
Michel Manen: good bye bye for now all
Publius Crabgrass: bye all
The meeting closed at 13:06 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 01, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (197, 184, 178)

Meeting on 2007-04-01
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Publius Crabgrass: hi Pat
Delia Lake: hi Michel
Justice Soothsayer: hello all
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Hi Patroklus & Justice
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone have agendas?
Michel Manen: Hello again everyone
Justice Soothsayer: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Publius Crabgrass: I do, thanks. Claude
Claude Desmoulins: If so, let’s begin.
Anthon Dryke: che ne so in giro
Claude Desmoulins: Are there any reports?
Anthon Dryke: magari incontriamo nick cave al pianoforte
Publius Crabgrass: If you click the books on the table, you’ll get the most recently updated Constitution.
Publius Crabgrass: Sorry, but I really have been out of things this week, busy at work, and haven’t got to anything on the Code project this week.
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Hi Sudane
Patroklus Murakami: hi sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any other reports?
Publius Crabgrass: btw, thanks to Pay for revisions on my brief piece on the updated structure of govt.
Sudane Erato: oh
Sudane Erato: all loans have been repaid
Patroklus Murakami: np publius 🙂
Sudane Erato: just managed to finish that
Erica Bekkers: vorrei trovare
Erica Bekkers: un posto carino
Justice Soothsayer: yes! my account balance looks quite healthy again!
Erica Bekkers: antonelloooooooo
Erica Bekkers: oh romanoooo
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 🙂
Erica Bekkers: beh
Claude Desmoulins: Please remember to touch the recorder box to indicate consent.
Erica Bekkers: vediamo in giro
Erica Bekkers: noo?
Erica Bekkers: qst posto mi paice
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Now back to the Dispute resolution bill
Patroklus Murakami: yes, marvellous news. not just for those of us who have had our accounts inflated!
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
TOPGenosse Brouwer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Huh?
Claude Desmoulins: Ah the loan payback
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry
Michel Manen: There has been no further debate and Beathan is not here. I call for a final vote on it.
Claude Desmoulins: Back to Beathan’s bill
Patroklus Murakami: it’s excellent news for the community and ofr investors, is what i meant
Publius Crabgrass: i was going to send Beathan a note about his bill being on the agenda, but didn’t get to it. The only way he would know it was on the agenda is if he read the transcript.
Claude Desmoulins: poll #1. Are we ready to vote?
Michel Manen: aye
Publius Crabgrass: non
Patroklus Murakami: nay
Justice Soothsayer: no, I’d like to hear what Beathan has to say.
Claude Desmoulins: chair abstains
Claude Desmoulins: motion to vote fails 1-3-1
TOPGenosse Brouwer mumbles from audience: hi Arria
Arria Perreault: HI
Claude Desmoulins: Options are now – push to next meeting or move to forums.
Anthon Dryke: hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi Anthon
Justice Soothsayer: we’re not meeting next week due to Easter holiday, right? Should give ample time for forum discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of moving to forums. Remember that we can vote there as well
Patroklus Murakami: yes, justice. goood idea
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Publius Crabgrass votes yes
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Michel Manen: abstains
Claude Desmoulins: the proposal to move to forums carries 4-0-1
Claude Desmoulins: Now Archivist.
Claude Desmoulins: Let me fill in here.
Claude Desmoulins: when we created the position, I stepped in on what has been a rather long intereim basis. The RA wrote a job description but never moved forward on creating a selection process.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel has now made application for the position.
Sudane Erato: Good news!
TOPGenosse Brouwer nods 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Kudos to Claude for filling in so long, esp with heavy family commitments! 😉
Claude Desmoulins: We didn’t exactly advertise the position.
Sudane Erato: yes Justice… agreed 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’m happy to let Pel or someone do it.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need to leave it open to allow other interested parties to enter in if they wish?
Justice Soothsayer: I don’t see a long line out the door of the Rathaus…
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Patroklus Murakami: pel would doa fine job, i’m sure. has anyone else expressed and interest?
Claude Desmoulins: How many others know of the position and that it’s in the process of being filled?
Claude Desmoulins: It’s likely Pel will remain out only applicant.
Patroklus Murakami: not many, i would guess
Michel Manen: well nt many since its not been advertised
Justice Soothsayer: maybe we should give it to Pel on an interim basis, then advertise?
Claude Desmoulins: I would move that we keep applications open until the 12th and select a permanent archivist on the 15th.
Publius Crabgrass: maybe send out notice via the new CDS group
Patroklus Murakami: that sounds like a sensible way forward claude
Michel Manen: i second justices proposla
Claude Desmoulins: I guess we could do both.
Publius Crabgrass: heh, let the interim Archivist post the advertisement as his first job. See if he gets it right!
Claude Desmoulins: Allow Pel to serve as interim at the April 15 meeting where we choose a permanent archivist.
Michel Manen: Pel by interim, 2 week advertising, if no other candiddates we confrim him yes
Justice Soothsayer: sounds good, Michel.
Patroklus Murakami: agreed
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Michel Manen: aye
Claude Desmoulins: abstains.
Claude Desmoulins: That takes care of the action items.
Claude Desmoulins: I understand the Guild is starting a sim design process/competiton?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i saw that in the minutes of one of their first meetings
Claude Desmoulins: WOuld someone besides me be willing to be a collection point for other archivist apps?
Claude Desmoulins: BTW
Michel Manen: the proposals can be submitted for a 2 week period starting on March 25th i think
TOPGenosse Brouwer: M > Proposals for a 3rd sim?
Michel Manen: yes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (since no one’s talking:) sounds very short to me, but I’m sure the guild has given it the attention it deserves ..
Michel Manen: well
Michel Manen: 2 weeks tosubmit
Michel Manen: then 2 weeks to debate
Michel Manen: then 1 week to vote
Michel Manen: 5 weeks in all
TOPGenosse Brouwer: i c OK
Claude Desmoulins: How do we fit into all of this?
Claude Desmoulins: Archivist announcement is posted to CDS group in world and the forums
Michel Manen: i think we select the finalists to go to a popular vote
Michel Manen: based on the number of submissions we decide how many finalists htere are
Patroklus Murakami: we decide when, and whether, to expand to a third sim
Michel Manen: so only viable proposals can be voted on
Michel Manen: that too Pat, of course
Claude Desmoulins: So we want to think about that question.
Publius Crabgrass: given the CN success, I’d like to see us move ahead with expansion fairly soon.
Patroklus Murakami: whether and when? surely, the sooner the better?
Michel Manen: well from what i understood not before november
Michel Manen: the 1st ear anniversary of CN
Justice Soothsayer: yep, I’m also in favor of expanding
Patroklus Murakami: why ‘not before november’ michel?
Michel Manen: because as per previous meetings sudane suggested and we agreed to a one year waiting time from Cns inauguration
Sudane Erato: i do urge going slow….
Sudane Erato: i am not particular about the 12 month period
Patroklus Murakami: oh? i donn’t recall that. can u remember which meeting so i can find the transcript?
Michel Manen: no but i can look it up
Patroklus Murakami: ty
Michel Manen: btw if we all agree to go ahead earlier im open to that
Michel Manen: but i think we shoudl listen to sudane s advice
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, what would your advice be? how are our finances?
Sudane Erato: well… our finances are good…
Sudane Erato: but i would not assume that the success we have had with CN wil always be repeated
Sudane Erato: we are not a RICH organization
Sudane Erato: we are healthy
Sudane Erato: so, we will still have to borrow
Sudane Erato: in order to add sims
Michel Manen: so what is the earliest time froame for a new sim in your opinion?
Sudane Erato: i think that as we add sims… we should also slowly seek to gain a srong balance sheet… meaning cash position
Michel Manen: indeed
Sudane Erato: so tyhat less and less of the new sim price need be borrowed
Claude Desmoulins: Can we wrap this impromptu discussion and the meeting at 12:40?
Michel Manen: the vote on the sim will be held, i think, on 1st may.. how soon after that can we go ahead do you think?
Justice Soothsayer: it wasn’t on the agenda, but always useful to talk about our future growth.
Sudane Erato: i guess my feeling… just a feeling….

Sudane Erato: would be that a purchase some time in the summer might be OK
Sudane Erato: remember
Sudane Erato: this new sim will be much more expensive
Sudane Erato: both in price and in tier
Michel Manen: and with that come issues of rent differentiation or equalization
Sudane Erato: that will be another issue, yes
Patroklus Murakami: that’s a very important consideration. you’re quite right to raise it sudane
Claude Desmoulins: Good point
Patroklus Murakami: i think we need to establish what our policy is about ‘voice’ and whether to upgrade/get done over by Linden Labs
Michel Manen: so once we decide we should give us at least 2-3 months to plan it out and work out outstanding issues.. so we’re looking at july-august, which fits in with sudanes estimate
Patroklus Murakami: as that will have a bearing on decisions about a new sim
Sudane Erato: the options regarding voice and tier increases are not yet set
Justice Soothsayer: is there any advantage to reserving early?
Sudane Erato: so I would strongly suggest NOT planning around something about which we know really nothing
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: no discount for reservation 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: that dependes sudane. we know a little about what is planned. if we want to join the ‘rejectionist’ camp in wider SL then we need to be making commmon cause with allies such as desmond shang, for example
Sudane Erato: well, I feel that LL floated this idea as it often does…
Michel Manen: i agree and in fact have raised this in a previous meeting
Sudane Erato: that does NOT mean they will carry it through
Sudane Erato: i personally feel no need to get in one camp or another regarding ideas which LL “floats”
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i agree they’re flying a kite. the qn is whether we want to influence events and how we might do that
Sudane Erato: please remember… sooner or later… all our sims will cost US$295/month
Claude Desmoulins: OK times up
Michel Manen: i think we should have contingency plans for verious posiblities and know what we will do in eeach situation rather than wait unprepared until we get the eater egg 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is there any objection to adjournment?
Michel Manen: aye i have two short announcement
TOPGenosse Brouwer: i have 1
Michel Manen: first, i have set up a temporary central tp point in CN
Michel Manen: until the chancellor gets round to doing it
Michel Manen: and have talked to her today
Michel Manen: confirming this
Sudane Erato: ? there already is a central tp point ?
Michel Manen: yes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yes thanks, looks good.
Michel Manen: but from there people can now tp to various paoints in the sim
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: great
Michel Manen: second in cooperation with Draxtor Despres, a RL radio professional, CARE will propose a Public private partnership to set up a CDS radio station
Patroklus Murakami: sounds like a boon 🙂
Michel Manen: details willl be posted in the next few days on the forum
Justice Soothsayer: intriguing
Michel Manen: so it would be useful if we could discuss
Michel Manen: opver the next 2 weeks
Michel Manen: and have an informed debate i n2 weeks time
Arria Perreault: Just a question: how is it possible to be on central tp point in CN?
Michel Manen: just ask and you will be added i think 🙂
Arria Perreault: thank you
Publius Crabgrass: posting details on radio opportunity on the forums, Michel?
Michel Manen: yes f course
Michel Manen: within the nexrt few days
Delia Lake: i didn’t know about the radio station plans, but i would like to add that Draxtor has filmed and interviewed us at MoCA for his programs in rl and sl
Sudane Erato: sorry… must go
Patroklus Murakami: i look forward to seeing the details of the proposal
Michel Manen: indeed 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: bye Sudane
Michel Manen: bye bye for now sudane
Arria Perreault: bye
Claude Desmoulins: TOP?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: If Michel has said his two things, may I add: No plots for sale, but Altenburg remains undevelloped
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Something for faction policies, I think.
Michel Manen: pel has urged this debate also in the forums
Patroklus Murakami: that would be under the Chancellor’s remit, would it not?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Does the chancellor decide on what happens with land?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Michel Manen: well, she would approve rezoning issues and such
Claude Desmoulins: I’d imagine we’d haev some input. But she could certainly get the ball rolling.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else?
Michel Manen: but it would be nice for us to decide what the substantive plan shoudl be
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I would like that yes.
Michel Manen: in cooperation with interested citizens and ngos
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yes
Michel Manen: lol its called participative democracy.. grins
Patroklus Murakami: another one for teh forums then?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I hope so.
Michel Manen: well
Patroklus Murakami: pfft
Michel Manen: i think it should go beyond the forums
Michel Manen: to really involve citizens who dont read them
Michel Manen: so i think a subcommitte would be appropriate
TOPGenosse Brouwer: /m wonders if the 3rd sim proposal period was communicated BEYOND the forum .. I think *not*.
Arria Perreault: where should we adress the proposals?
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, but I’ve got to leave.
Patroklus Murakami: Constitution Art II, Section 2 “The Chancellor of Neufreistadt-CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power: (a) to determine the use to which any and all land in Neufriestadt shall be put; ” (where ‘Neufreistadt=CDS)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: bye Justice
Michel Manen: bye bye for now justice
TOPGenosse Brouwer: ty Pat
Patroklus Murakami: bye justice
Arria Perreault: bye
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s adjourn
Publius Crabgrass: ok
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Michel Manen: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Ok we’re adjourned until April 15
Claude Desmoulins: Remember no meeting on Easter
Publius Crabgrass: ok
Patroklus Murakami: bye all. happy easter 🙂
Michel Manen: bye bye for now all
The meeting closed at 12:56 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 15, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 165, 41)

Meeting on 2007-04-15
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: Justice,
Publius Crabgrass: yes?
Claude Desmoulins: I’m going to try to switch to my other machine.
Claude Desmoulins: Please start the meeting while I’m out.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: OK, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe I’ve finally caught up.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s finally begin
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Any reports?
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Publius Crabgrass: nope
Claude Desmoulins: On to archivist.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel is our only applicant.
Publius Crabgrass: do the five stars atop his head represent a badge of office?
Pelanor Eldrich: Sorry, rate point. I’m not a 5 star general.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to hire him on the spot?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i think we should. before he changes his mind!
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, he’s the only applicant and a fine one.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll try to be here, and be here on time.
Pelanor Eldrich: The RA meeting times are better for me now than they were last session.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Publius Crabgrass: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now dispute resolution
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks.
Patroklus Murakami: congrats
Justice Soothsayer: I’d like to withdraw that. Beathan has been out of contact for some time (the author of the bill).
Justice Soothsayer: I think he’s been occupied with a mammoth RL case. So let’s take this off the table without prejudice to later consideration.
Publius Crabgrass: Yes, that’s what was said earlier.
Claude Desmoulins: There’s been no discussion
Publius Crabgrass: (before recorder was on).
Publius Crabgrass: nothing in the forums either.
Patroklus Murakami: i support justice’s proposal – table until beathan can come and put forward a case
Publius Crabgrass: I quite agree.
Claude Desmoulins: I move we yable indefinitely
Claude Desmoulins: *table
Patroklus Murakami: yable away!
Publius Crabgrass: I put it in the hopper for Beathan, and agree we should table it
Claude Desmoulins: that’s everyone, isn’t it.
Publius Crabgrass: yes, looks like 4 votes to table
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of tabling indefinitely…
Publius Crabgrass: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Patroklus Murakami: anyone know why michel isn’t here? did he send apologies?
Claude Desmoulins: I haven’t heard from him.
Patroklus Murakami: guess he could have been confused about dates, duration of the EAster break….
Claude Desmoulins: Next…event suport
Claude Desmoulins: *support
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m in support of this proposal. i put fwd a similar idea on the forums a few months back but it didn’t get much RA debate. i have one concern tho
Publius Crabgrass: I’m not against bread & circuses, but I’m not sure this is fully thought out. Didnt LL drop event support? And would $4k be enough to jump start anything?
Patroklus Murakami: if the Exec is to set the rules for the allocation of the money then the Chancellor needs to make the rules she applies public. we need transparency
Pelanor Eldrich: Is it like applying for a gov’t grant to get this support?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: As to the $L figure I didn’t want to overstress the budget and wanted to start smal.
Patroklus Murakami: i hear waht you’re saying publius. the problem with this kind of idea is that ppl come to expect it and squeal when it’s withdrawn. we need to make it clear that it’s pump-priming money, not aht pl have the *right* to govnt support for events
Patroklus Murakami: *that ppl*
Justice Soothsayer: I certainly would like to see more events here – Top et al have been working very hard.
Justice Soothsayer: we’re supposed to meet w Ali this week, why don’t we discuss it with her then?
Pelanor Eldrich: The MoCA events have been really quite successful.
Patroklus Murakami: yes, this is a token if you will of our support for events and drawing in ppl to the CDS. it’s nto enough to be an income but it shows we care 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: yes, she’s the one who would administer this, right?
Claude Desmoulins: I certainly would take as a friendly ab anebdnebt to make the rules public,…but
Claude Desmoulins: What about tabling this to the 17th meeting?
Publius Crabgrass: not a bad idea
Pelanor Eldrich: To see if Ali is willing to take it on?
Claude Desmoulins: Is everyone else as laggy as all getout or is it just me?
Patroklus Murakami: Add ‘The Executive will make public the basis on which funds are allocated and post a notice of any events which are funded this way”
Patroklus Murakami: how does that sound?
Publius Crabgrass: and also to see how she’d administer it.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to table
Patroklus Murakami: (lagging badly also)
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll add that as a friendly and let’s table to Tuesday.
Pelanor Eldrich: We have a greifer warning for CN I relayed from Ranma.
Publius Crabgrass: lag here too, hope we’re not the next sim to go after NFS
Patroklus Murakami: what kind of griefer pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Andr3as Kidd, naked and armed. Ranma just chased him away.
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. give him to me, i love a man with a big weapon 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, couldnt’ resist!
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What do the sim stats look like?
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, ok i think
Pelanor Eldrich: You realize that’ll be immortalized in the archives. Maybe it’ll make the Bar Assoication Journal someday. 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: yeah, just realised the recorder’s on, ah well, nm 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: I met our bar assn reporter in RL on Friday – she’s very nice and looks much like her avatar.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, off topic
Pelanor Eldrich: …
Patroklus Murakami waits…
Publius Crabgrass: lag-induced torpor settles in
Patroklus Murakami: embrace the lag. love the lag!
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to try to debate citizenship or can we push that back to forums.
Patroklus Murakami: i think this still needs some work
Justice Soothsayer: yes, i think the forum debate is very helpful
Claude Desmoulins: Another possibility would be to alow group owwnership, but nto citizenship derived from group land.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m stll worried about the proposal (I tend to worry about these things) and the forum discussion has been helpful
Claude Desmoulins: Notice that the bill in the agenda has been changed to reflect some of the discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move this back to forums and adjourn. Any objection?
Patroklus Murakami: that’s an interesting proposal claude. i’d like to consider it further. would it mean that partners would be able to hold land in common tho? or would they need their own land as well?
Patroklus Murakami: happy to discuss further on the forums
Patroklus Murakami: and adjourn. my supper’s ready soon and i’m getting looks!
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do that.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned
Publius Crabgrass: ok
Patroklus Murakami: agreed
Justice Soothsayer: No objection.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, Claude we’ll be in touch. I’m your employee now.
Claude Desmoulins: Please leave CN. I’m going to restart the sim to se if it helps the lag.
Publius Crabgrass: OK
The meeting closed at 12:51 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 22, 2007

Meeting on 2007-04-22
Those present:
Justice Soothsayer is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer: hi Pay
Justice Soothsayer: *Pat
Patroklus Murakami: hi justice
Justice Soothsayer: Publius emailed me a little while ago to say he’d be a few minutes late; Claude may not be here at all
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Justice Soothsayer: I don’t have an agenda (hidden or otherwise) 😉
Patroklus Murakami: aah, *everyone* has an agenda 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: perhaps mine is just deeply hidden. Oh wait, I do have one. But it is from the last meeting!
Justice Soothsayer: Michel is on his way
Patroklus Murakami: i’m getting terrible texture flashing right now. might have to log out and in again
Justice Soothsayer: ok
Patroklus Murakami: hi michel
Justice Soothsayer: hi Michel
Michel Manen: hello everyone
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: Moon is going to attend to raise a few important guild and IP rights issues
Patroklus Murakami: i’m gonna try swapping computers. texture flashing is driving me nuts 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: ok Pat, we’ll wait
Justice Soothsayer: Publius is running a little late, Michel. He emailed me a bit ago. And Claude probably wont be here at all.
Michel Manen: what s up with Claude/
Justice Soothsayer: family commitment
Michel Manen: is his son ok?
Justice Soothsayer: yeah, I dont think its a medical issue.
Michel Manen: good
Patroklus Murakami: back
Justice Soothsayer: wb Pat
Michel Manen: so we have a quorum now, a few more minutes for the others?
Justice Soothsayer: start at 1205?
Michel Manen: done
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: justice, u said u don’t have an agenda. can we agree a provisional one?
Michel Manen: sure
Michel Manen: any items pat?
Justice Soothsayer: ok – what’;s on your lists?
Patroklus Murakami: events funding
Patroklus Murakami: we could also discuss the amendment to 5-9 on group ownership
Michel Manen: well moon has 2 issues : guild space on th CDS forum and public IP rights
Michel Manen: and ihope Draxtor Dexpres will be here in 15 to present the radio porject
Michel Manen: ah publius greatPatroklus Murakami: guild forum? isn’t that an SC issue?
Michel Manen: yes but the sc has not had a quorum in months
Michel Manen: and the guild is desparate for commuication on forums
Justice Soothsayer: being an SC issue doesn’t mean we can’t give an opinion
Michel Manen: yes
Michel Manen: we need to move on this\
Patroklus Murakami: there are other forums…
Publius Crabgrass: hello everyone
Patroklus Murakami: hi publius
Publius Crabgrass: sorry I’m late
Michel Manen: this has to do with the new sim also its public pusiness paat
Publius Crabgrass has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: i dont see the [orblem to give them a thread
Justice Soothsayer: Everyone please touch the recorder for consent
Michel Manen: on hte CDS forum
Publius Crabgrass: hi Brian
Patroklus Murakami: and the argument that the SC hasn’t met in months does not really imply that the RA has the right to usurp the SCs role. but i wait to see what the proposal is 🙂
Michel Manen: hi brian
Justice Soothsayer: hello Brian
Michel Manen: good
Brian Livingston: Hi 🙂 Just observing, don’t mind me 🙂
Michel Manen: so lets not argue technicalities yet
Moon Adamant: hello all 🙂
Michel Manen: hi moon
Justice Soothsayer: OK, let’s get started. Since Claude is away, I’m chairing the meeting.
Michel Manen: good
Justice Soothsayer: Hello Moon.
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon, brian
Moon Adamant: i have a request to the acting LRA
Justice Soothsayer: We don’t have a previously published agenda, but the first item on the list is to discuss event funding.
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, Moon?
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: i would like to call the IP transfer rights issue for NFS and CN public areas content
Moon Adamant: seeing that this has been dragging for almost one year now
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, and Michel said you wanted to raise the forum issue as well.
Moon Adamant: as regards NFS, less for CN
Michel Manen: hi jon glad you could join us
Jon Seattle: Hi
Patroklus Murakami: hi jon. good to see u:)
Publius Crabgrass: hello Jon
Jon Seattle: Thanks.. not sure I am still connected
Justice Soothsayer: hi Jon
Justice Soothsayer: you look connected to me!Jon Seattle: Thats better 🙂
Jon Seattle: Thanks! 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: OK – first up: events funding.
Moon Adamant: but i will be happy to wait for the agenda points to be discussed first
Justice Soothsayer: Followed by Moon.
Justice Soothsayer: Then if there’s time, we’ll go to 5-9 amendments on groups.
Justice Soothsayer: So, event funding. It has been proposed that we budget L$4k per month
Patroklus Murakami: claude kindly put my february proposal for events funding into a bill. i assume everone’s seen it on our forums? needless to say i support it! it’s pump[priming money. not for every. thoughts?
Patroklus Murakami: *for ever
Publius Crabgrass: We were going to disucss this w Ali at the meeting that wasn’t.
Michel Manen: well whos going to adminisgter it? us or the non exisiting ipo?
Patroklus Murakami: the executive branceh
Patroklus Murakami: so, aliasi. in the absence of a PIO
Publius Crabgrass: and the executive branch and the rest of the legislative branch didn’t make it to the meeting!
Michel Manen: well aliasi is very busy will she have time to dedicate to thids?
Patroklus Murakami: brbr
Justice Soothsayer: sorry about that, Publius
Michel Manen: remeber the CN centrl tp point? i had to pay to get one done so we could have one at all.. im all for the idea but it has to function in practice
Michel Manen: i wont support giving more tasks to someone already overburdemend and short of time
Michel Manen: so provided we can get an IPO yes i supoort it
Patroklus Murakami: surely the principle is ‘is event funding a good idea or no?’ the current burdens on the executive branch are a secondary consideration
Publius Crabgrass: well, I ‘ve thought about the idea, and I do think we need more events, so I’;m willing to support this as a pump-priming, as Pat suggests. A
Michel Manen: no theire not
Michel Manen: if we cant put this in practice the idea is irrelevant
Publius Crabgrass: it is practical queston: who is going to do it?
Michel Manen: yes
Michel Manen: indeed
Michel Manen: i will not vote on giving funds to an idea that will drag for god knows how long
Patroklus Murakami: that doesn’t make sense michel. if there is a problem with the chancellor’s workload that’sa separate issue
Justice Soothsayer: Pat, remind us, as there a time limit on the proposed expenditures?
Michel Manen: even if the idea is good in itself
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t access the bill right now (laptop is limited)
Michel Manen: Hi DD good to see yoyu have a seat plz
Draxtor Despres: hi
Justice Soothsayer rummaging
Michel Manen: so i suggst we approve pats bill and add the sunset clause that an IPO must be selcted within 1 month or it becomes null and voidJustice Soothsayer: I don’t have Pat’s bill, just what was on the forums: “It’s clear that there’s some dissatisfaction being expressed on these forums at the lack of events and ‘buzz’ in the CDS at the moment. What can the RA do to help? Here are some thoughts for kicking around: 1. Pay citizens to host events. The Lindens used to do this (along with a host of developer incentives which have now gone). Why not pay people L$500/event for hosting quizzes, games, discussions? A budget of L$4000/month would pay for a weekly event in Neufreistadt and Colonia Nova. 2. Set up a training programme for Events Organisers. The training would involve putting on larger-scale events in the CDS (like the wonderful Inaugural Ball we had for the 5th RA session) and provide the trainees with a highly marketable SL skill. 3. Establish a Commission on the Anzere infohub. There are a number of people who’ve expressed a desire to improve the Anzere infohub. A Commission would be one way to channel those energies. ”
Patroklus Murakami: Bill is “The Executive is directed to create a program for financial and other support of events in the CDS. A sum of $L4000/month is appropriated to this program beginning in April 2007 and running through the end of the current budget.”
Michel Manen: ok thats fine i agree ; im just concerned about the practicality of it now
Patroklus Murakami: so it ends in April 08
Justice Soothsayer: TY
Patroklus Murakami: it’s up to the exec to solve the PIO problem
Michel Manen: not if the exec cant get it together
Michel Manen: we control funds
Michel Manen: and i will not vote funds for something that will drag
Patroklus Murakami: if the chancellor is too busy to do this then she needs to delegate
Michel Manen: well we still dont have an IPO after such a long time
Michel Manen: so i reiterate my sunset clasue idea
Publius Crabgrass: I suppose we could always amend it if it doesnt work. We’re setting a budget, which may not have to be expended
Patroklus Murakami: why do u think we still don’t have a PIO michel?
Michel Manen: because the one who applied and was selcted quit
Justice Soothsayer: lets not get sidetracked
Michel Manen: and he wasnt repalced
Justice Soothsayer: question is on event funding, not a PIO
Patroklus Murakami: and not having an events budget helps the search for a PIO how?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m still puzzled by michel’s logic
Michel Manen: pat i said i will vote yes provided we can make susre this moves quickly
Michel Manen: sorry if you dont get it
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think that we have control over that. this is authorisation for the executive branch
Justice Soothsayer: so, Michel, are you saying you want a limit that is different than what pat’s proposed?
Brian Livingston: I thinkthat having this in the budget helps the search for a PIO, as it shows the candidate that the CDS is serious aboutproviding the tools neccessary to making the PIO’
Brian Livingston: effective
Michel Manen: we can incorporate a sunset clause in the bill as i proposed
Patroklus Murakami: it’s up to the exec to ‘make it happen’
Patroklus Murakami: good point brian 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: sunset when, PAy?Justice Soothsayer: uh, sunset hen, Michel?
Michel Manen: 1 month from now
Patroklus Murakami: it has a sunset, april 08!
Michel Manen: april 8????
Justice Soothsayer: 1 month seems a little short to me to give it a fair try, but a full year is a bit long.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s ridiculous michel. you’re attaching unnecessary conditions. this will kill the idea
Michel Manen: were on april 21stnow
Patroklus Murakami: april 2008
Michel Manen: no if we have an ipo within 1 month the sunset clasue didapperas
Patroklus Murakami: april 08 is an abbreviation
Michel Manen: all im saying lets make sure we get an ipo soon to administer the funds
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think that michel’s propoal is reasonable
Michel Manen: whats so difficulat with this?
Brian Livingston: And if the PIO quits afterwards? By that definition, to save this act, I couldvoulenteer as teh PIO for a minute and then quit…
Michel Manen: lol
Brian Livingston: Or more realisticalyl, a month
Patroklus Murakami: why can’t we leave the executive branch to sort out it’s own affairs? why the need to meddle in the work of the other branches?
Patroklus Murakami: i find this trend worrying
Michel Manen: well if we do that theres not much point in anything we do here brian
Publius Crabgrass: I’d like to suggest a middle ground: tying this to having a PIO within a month doesn’t make sense to me, but a full year worth of events budget is a bit much since this is an experiment. I’d say let’s propose appropriating 4k per month for 3 months, then reevaluate.
Michel Manen: because the exec is ov erburneded and i dont want to pile up mor tasks on top of others that arent gettign odne
Michel Manen: agrred publius
Justice Soothsayer: sounds reasonable to me, Publius.
Michel Manen: yey
Michel Manen: vote?
Justice Soothsayer: Pat, are you OK ith that approach?
Patroklus Murakami: what would the amended proposal look like?
Patroklus Murakami: we need a text to propose a vote
Justice Soothsayer: arrgh, my “w” key is giving me fits
Justice Soothsayer: I think we’re amending your text, Pat, to limit it to 3 months (and dropping Michel’s idea to tie it to a PIO)
Michel Manen: ok
Justice Soothsayer: accpt as a a friendly amendment?
Michel Manen: and if the exec gets things moving within 3 months we can prolong it to april 8 2008
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not my bill
Publius Crabgrass: “The Executive is directed to create a program for financial and other support of events in the CDS. A sum of $L4000/month is appropriated to this program beginning in April 2007 and running through the end of the current budget.” will change to July 07
Michel Manen: okPatroklus Murakami: and it don’t consider it to be friendly 🙂
Michel Manen: i can support that
Publius Crabgrass: So, lets vote on the amendment
Justice Soothsayer: All in favor of amending the bill to provide 3 months appropriation instead of “through the end of the current budget”?
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Michel Manen: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: against. i don’t understand the need for a three month limit
Justice Soothsayer: Motion carries, 3 to 1. Now we vote on the bill as amended. Any further discussion?
Michel Manen: its caled acountability pat
Michel Manen: no
Publius Crabgrass: no
Justice Soothsayer: OK – all in favor of the bill as amended?
Michel Manen: aye
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Patroklus Murakami notes that michel can’t spell ‘accountability’
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Bill passes.
Patroklus Murakami: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: On to Moon
Justice Soothsayer: Sorry to keep the lovely Moon waiting.
Michel Manen: smiles
Justice Soothsayer: We had a little discussion before you got here, Moon, on the Forum issue.
Justice Soothsayer: Could we address that first?
Moon Adamant: surely
Moon Adamant: and sorry, was giving some technical help in IM
Moon Adamant: the point is
Moon Adamant: and about forums – i fully understand that the SC is in charge of the forums
Michel Manen: ah
Michel Manen: the SC uis here
Michel Manen: lol
Moon Adamant: btw, gwyn is coming here, should i wait for her=
Michel Manen: hello gywn perfect timing 🙂
Moon Adamant: ah, there she is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol thanks :)e Patroklus Murakami: speak of the devil….:)
Michel Manen: moon was just discussing forum space for th guild
Moon Adamant: yes lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Moon Adamant: uberdevil 🙂
Moon Adamant: anyway
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Moon Adamant: the guild needs some communication channelGwyneth Llewelyn: oh, fun 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: we have important issues to discuss, we hold regular meetings
Moon Adamant: we will hold public training events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think it is important actially to extend access to the forum to all chartered organizations.
Michel Manen: i agree entirely
Michel Manen: but as paat said we need th SC to move on this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well the SC *tried* to meet on the issue…
Moon Adamant: the guild has an aknowledged public charter
Moon Adamant: we provide a public service
Moon Adamant: we organized a petition to the SC asking for a forum thread to be set
Michel Manen: well then i think the RA should ask rthe SC chair to make the forum available to the guold unless the SC quorum neets and rejects thtis
Moon Adamant: but teh SC had no quorum
Patroklus Murakami: well, there’s a question of the separation of powers here. this is a matter for the SC, not the RA
Moon Adamant: so… we do not know what to do
Moon Adamant: indeed Pat
Justice Soothsayer: I’m not sure there’s much we can do to help, Moon, short of amending the constitution to take forums away from the SC.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye. I think I’m the last voting member of the SC …
Michel Manen: as i said the RA should recommened to the SC chair to move on this on its own unless the SC quorum is constituted and reacehs an opposite decision
Patroklus Murakami: and alos of consistency. the traders association was granted. and then denied a sub-forum
Justice Soothsayer: But we can certainly suggest that the Dean should take action.
Moon Adamant: yes Pat, i am aware of teh precedent
Michel Manen: yes justice
Patroklus Murakami: the SC at least needs to be consistent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I got a petition 🙂
Moon Adamant: but – i point out – the guild has a RA approved charter
Moon Adamant: to provide a public service
Publius Crabgrass: what, grant it and revoke it? heh
Michel Manen: yes and a lot of key tasks coming up in the near future
Moon Adamant: the guild considers
Michel Manen: so justice you swant to move the motion?
Moon Adamant: that this is not something we demand for ourselves
Moon Adamant: but that we can open a precedent for other groups with approved charters as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well if all else fails, there will be a decision with a vote of one at the SC 😛
Michel Manen: great
Justice Soothsayer: I guess I’ll put it this way: the RA resolves that it is our opinion that the New Guild should have a forum channel, and asks the Dean to consider creating one.
Michel Manen: as long as it gets done
Michel Manen: perfect justiceGwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Publius Crabgrass: Second
Michel Manen: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: too absolutist for my taste, Michel 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hmmm. treading on other branches toes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice ? you shuld extend that
Michel Manen: we ask you to consider it gwyn
Justice Soothsayer: Absolut? SC meetings come with vodka now?
Patroklus Murakami: the arrogance of the legislature once more
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to all chartered NGOs
Moon Adamant: an alternative
Michel Manen: fine all chartered NGOs providing a public service
Jon Seattle: I see no objection to the RA expresing their opinion as long as it is not held as being law in this case.
Justice Soothsayer: Pat – I think we’re entitled to express our opinion as representatives. We aren’t ordering Gwyn to do anything, just aksing.
Justice Soothsayer: *asking
Michel Manen: i agree with justice
Patroklus Murakami: when the RA used not to meet, did the SC fill the vacuum?
Moon Adamant: could be to use the Old Guild Forum… sort of overhaul it and nmove it from the Governemnt section
Jon Seattle: And yes, I think extend it to all chartered organizations.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Michel, and who decides what public service is, is the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like the idea, btw…
Michel Manen: the NGO charters
Justice Soothsayer: No objection to expanding that request to all publicly chartered institutions.
Michel Manen: nay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as approved by theRA
Michel Manen: yes
Draxtor Despres: sorry to interrupt, but I have another meeting to go to
Draxtor Despres: i will give the representation about virtual public radio antoerh day
Justice Soothsayer: So the motion is: the RA resolves that it is our opinion that publicly chartered institutions should have a forum channel, and asks the Dean to consider creating one.
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, but the RA is overstepping the limit of its powers
Draxtor Despres: anyone interested can contact me and i can give them a sheet. we will start broadcast June 1st
Michel Manen: i vote aye
Justice Soothsayer: Are you ready for a vote on that?
Patroklus Murakami: we should not even be discussing this
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: nay
Justice Soothsayer: All in favor?
Publius Crabgrass: Aye
Michel Manen: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Pat?Patroklus Murakami: nay
Justice Soothsayer: Aye. Motion carries 3-1.
Michel Manen: good and since the SC chair is here she is aware of it now
Justice Soothsayer: SC can strike it as unconstitution if it ever musters a quorum. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Michel Manen: lol justice good 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Moon, you also had an IP issue to raise?
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: this is not a guild issue
Moon Adamant: but i speak in two roles here
Moon Adamant: one as aprivate builder of public content
Justice Soothsayer: btw – I have to leave right about @ 1, so let’s keep this to 10 minutes
Moon Adamant: and the other as the chair of the SPC
Moon Adamant: the transfer of IP rights
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes
Moon Adamant: from content makers to the city
Moon Adamant: on public areas
Moon Adamant: hasn’t been done yet
Moon Adamant: this issue has been dragging for almost one year now, as refers to NFS content such as bridges
Michel Manen: yes we need to solve this before we move on to the next sim ideally 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: who’s responsibility is that moon?
Moon Adamant: and Dianne’s city walls – and in fact has caused already some ill feelings
Moon Adamant: Pt, that’s one point there – i do not know
Moon Adamant: i am sure that the RA has passed an act regarding this last year
Michel Manen: because no one knows… smiles.. Gwyn any historical background?
Moon Adamant: but the implementation of that act… has failed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Moon Adamant: as regards CN
Moon Adamant: i feel as chair of the SPC that this is SPC responsability
Moon Adamant: and that the SPC should be able to solve this, and then extinguish itself
Moon Adamant: BUT
Justice Soothsayer: Moon, what is not happening that should be happening, in your opinion?
Michel Manen: who will the IP rights be vested in?
Moon Adamant: the SPC wasn’t ever mandated to do this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: responsability is split – the RA approved the building of CN, but I would say the Exec deals with these details…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: never the SPC….
Moon Adamant: well, for some months there were some ssues about notary
Moon Adamant: but i think they are solved now
Moon Adamant: i think what is lacking
Moon Adamant: is a final template for content transfer
Moon Adamant: and that perhaps could be discussed by the RA legitemately
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes… there are 2 on the forums, pick one 🙂
Moon Adamant: there are actually 3Gwyneth Llewelyn: aw perhaps, yes…
Moon Adamant: i posted myself a version of a contract that doesn’t transfer IP, only grants a license
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah fine…
Moon Adamant: thinking that perhaps it would be easier to solve the issue by that
Moon Adamant: seeing we wouldn’t need to bother with International blah blah IP rights
Michel Manen: who would the licence be given to exactly?
Moon Adamant: and bring the matter then to only a contractual level
Patroklus Murakami: again. this feels like an exec issue. is it coming here because there has been no movement on the RAs decision?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye Pat
Moon Adamant: the situation is indeed stopped
Michel Manen: well i think we needto move on tih soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MIchel: I would say “the gov. of the CDS”
Moon Adamant: and Michel: there was some discussion as regards that, which i think may have become inconclusive as well
Publius Crabgrass: I’m not sure I understand what you want us to do, Moon? Approve a form of IP rights assignment or license?
Moon Adamant: not knowing if the EO would keep the backups, an archive avatar
Brian Livingston: I would think it would fall to the office of the Exec in terms of assigning hte license
Publius Crabgrass: Or just push the Chancellor to do something?
Patroklus Murakami: yes. i’m not clear waht we’re being asked to do
Brian Livingston: Err, holdign the license
Moon Adamant: at the following of the UQuake, it was even suggested that the guildemeister would keep the backups
Michel Manen: well if we approve a transfer form and who the licence will be given to it can move foreard
Michel Manen: and also who will keep backups
Moon Adamant: well, i am asking that the RA reopens this discussion
Michel Manen: i support that porposal
Moon Adamant: for instance, if there is need for an archive avatar, surely the ra must regulate it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is the RA Archivist, though,….
Patroklus Murakami: could the New Guild post a proposal on the forums?
Michel Manen: persosnally i think the RA should delegate this to the guild as the most ompetent organisation to deal with this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmmm
Moon Adamant: Pat, the new guild can
Michel Manen: yes
Jon Seattle: For those who do not remember the whole UZ issue, this is very important to resolve.
Patroklus Murakami: i feel the need for something clear to consider in writing
Justice Soothsayer: That sounds like a good Idea Pat.
Michel Manen: justice can you word this plz?
Moon Adamant: but mind that this is an issue previous to the new guild, that involves private builders and the SPC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: retrospectively deciding things? hmmMichel Manen: so we can vote before leaving?
Moon Adamant: nevertheless
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA *could* delegate in the *future* to the NG
Moon Adamant: the new guild will also need to consider this issue for its activities, so we would like to know the official standing
Justice Soothsayer: I’m sorry, folks, but I am just about at my time limit.
Michel Manen: the RA resolves that the Guild is the appropriate organ to develop an IP trights issue proposal for its consideration
Justice Soothsayer: Can we leave this with the notion to Moon that the New Guild should make suggestions as what to do next?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm ok
Justice Soothsayer: Those who read the transcripts will see that we have reopened the conversation, and may chime in.
Michel Manen: yes justice
Patroklus Murakami: let’s have a proposal for consideration on the forums
Michel Manen: good so the ball is now in the guilds court
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Michel Manen: at least it ca n move on it
Justice Soothsayer: hi FRC, just in time to watch us adjourn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: was there a vote? 😉
Michel Manen: lol wow the sc may soon have a quorum!
Flyingroc Chung: yay
Justice Soothsayer: And boy are we all glad to see you!
Jon Seattle: Hi FR 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi FR 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: hey
Patroklus Murakami: hi FR. good to see u
Flyingroc Chung: thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: naah Michel, FR left the SC…
Michel Manen: so moon are you ok with this?
Flyingroc Chung: <-- joe q citizen Michel Manen: oh i forgot.... damn.... Moon Adamant: well, i can try to find out the proposals for templates Moon Adamant: so they can be considered together Michel Manen: good Moon Adamant: will the RA vote a definite template? Michel Manen: as well as bsackups and al lthat Moon Adamant: mind that i don't recall exactly now Michel Manen: well it will vote on what the guild will propose Moon Adamant: what was the exact contents of the act passed last year Justice Soothsayer: Depends on what is proposed, I think. Justice Soothsayer: all the bills are on the wiki Patroklus Murakami: i'm afraid i must go soon Justice Soothsayer: me too - I'll take that as a motion to adjourn, Pat. Patroklus Murakami: :)Moon Adamant: ok, we will see if we can sum up all the proposals and discussion Michel Manen: great Justice Soothsayer: Any objection to adjourning? Publius Crabgrass: No Patroklus Murakami: no. bye all Justice Soothsayer: We're adjourned. Michel Manen: no. btw Moon Utarid & Springvale deal with IP rights.. maybe a chat with them would help Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for coming, everyone. Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye :)) Publius Crabgrass: Bye all. Michel Manen: thank you for a well run and productive meeting Justice Justice Soothsayer: thanks, Michel. Justice Soothsayer: we did OK without an agenda! Moon Adamant: ah good idea Michel Moon Adamant: i'll try to get an opinion The meeting closed at 16:31 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 29, 2007

Meeting on 2007-04-29
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: The agenda is in the dispeser already.
Michel Manen: lol
Claude Desmoulins can’t type today.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get started
Patroklus Murakami: yes, lets’
Claude Desmoulins: First let me welcome to the RA Beathan Vale.
Sudane Erato: great!! 🙂
Beathan Vale: thanks
Claude Desmoulins: Beathan replaces Publius Crabgrass representing the SP.
Justice Soothsayer: hello
Patroklus Murakami: oh right. you’re the new simpleton? welcome!
Justice Soothsayer: congrats, Beathan
Sudane Erato: hehe
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Publius resigned this week due to RL committments.
Sudane Erato: yes… congrats!
Beathan Vale: lol ;p
Claude Desmoulins: The agenda is in the dispenser.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the recorder.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: First… reports.
Sudane Erato: no special report on the money front
Claude Desmoulins: Other reports?
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Justice Soothsayer: any word fromthe Chancellor about rescheduling our meeting with her?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: She has finals this week, but suggested Thursday the 3rd at 7 pm slt might be workable for her.
Claude Desmoulins: How many RA folk could make that?
Patroklus Murakami: i won’t be able to make that. too late for me
Michel Manen: i could
Beathan Vale: I could
Justice Soothsayer: I could, earlier would be OK too, but I suspect she wont be available early enough for Pat.
Claude Desmoulins: I can if the kids go to sleep on time and I remember 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll contact her and schedule for 7 pm Thursday in the Rathaus.
Claude Desmoulins: Any other reports?
Claude Desmoulins: Seeing none.
Claude Desmoulins: Publius was chairing the code reorganization committee.
Claude Desmoulins: The process had bogged down.
Pelanor Eldrich: Will Brian be taking that over?
Claude Desmoulins: Someone needs to take the aton on this.
Claude Desmoulins: *baton
Pelanor Eldrich: I can volunteer, but I’m not in the RA so can’t chair.
Beathan Vale: I can chair
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to Beathan taking that over?
Patroklus Murakami: i second beathan
Justice Soothsayer: OK with me
Beathan Vale: but I’m not fully up to speed — but I have been monitoring
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll try to remember to forward what I have.
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t forget, please, to touch the recorder.
Claude Desmoulins: Now 5-9 amendment. We have two proposals on the table.
Claude Desmoulins: Pat…
Claude Desmoulins: am I correct that….
Claude Desmoulins: …you believe any non citizen wishing to become one ought to have to purchase an individual lot?
Claude Desmoulins: And there he went.
Claude Desmoulins: PAt did you hear my question?
Patroklus Murakami: no. crashed
Claude Desmoulins: Am I correct that you believe any non citizen wishing to become one ought to have to purchase an individual lot?
Patroklus Murakami: that’s the current law NL 5-9
Michel Manen: I want to say a brief word on these amendments. I read them, as well as the forum discusisons on them that have been going on for a while now.
Michel Manen: Both these amendments are profoundly antidemocratic, anti-immigration, xenophobic, status quo and oligarchy-enhancing, anti-private business, destructive onf civil society and a KGB-like interference in the private matters of citizens ad groups. In short, they embody the most despicable and abhorrent trends of this community and I will virulently opose them.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: my!
Justice Soothsayer: other than that, they’re OK?
Michel Manen: yup
Sudane Erato: haha
Claude Desmoulins: And you believe it ought to remain this way?
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
Pelanor Eldrich: Don’t sit on the fence, tell us how you really feel.
Beathan Vale: so — you are lukewarm on the amendments then, MM? 😉
Sudane Erato: LOL
Michel Manen: yes im thinking about it beth
Patroklus Murakami: yes Claude i do. the requirement is a very important one. for reasons that i’ve outlined on the forums
Claude Desmoulins: If that’t the case and we decide to keep the individual lot first requirement…
Patroklus Murakami: i have yet to see a reason why we need to change this and why we need to open up citizenship in such an unrestrained way
Claude Desmoulins: ….why not simplify things, esp. for Sudane by not allowing group land to be the basis of any avatar’s citizenship.
Justice Soothsayer: I agree with Pat that citizens ought to have stake in CDS through an individual stake; but I do think we could allow citizens to hold land in common ownership.
Patroklus Murakami: that means repealing 5-9 claude, which would be a step back. we passed 5-9 for good reasons. to allow couples and groups to own land in common
Claude Desmoulins: No I don’t think so Pat.
Patroklus Murakami: but it complicates matters. we just need to find a way to deal with that complication. sudanes’ amendment, which i support, woudl do that for us
Claude Desmoulins: We could allow common ownership, but not citizenship from common land.
Beathan Vale: I tend to favor allowing citizenship through group ownership — but I don’t understand why state a particular number of citizen spots per group as opposed to per land quantum
Patroklus Murakami: then u force everyone to own their own land – why do that if a couple just want to own a home togethere?
Claude Desmoulins: But they already had to own their own land to become citizens inthe first place.
Pelanor Eldrich: Also, be sure to address the grandfathering or the retroactive enforcement.
Claude Desmoulins: Good point Pel
Patroklus Murakami: yes, as do all other citizens. NL 5-9 gives them the option of merging holdings after they come to the CDS. if they form a partnership here, for example
Pelanor Eldrich: Imagine trying to disenfranchise current citizens.
Michel Manen: ah yes that most democratic of all tools.. retroactive enforecemnt
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should allow couples to purchase land as well as individuals? that would solve a lot of the problems with this issue
Beathan Vale: SL has a partnership function — so that should not create confusion
Claude Desmoulins: That’s quite a bit of overhead for allowing citizens who already own lad to share a house? Now there’s an interesting option.
Claude Desmoulins: partners/couples, that is
Beathan Vale: but we would have to consider what to do in the event of SL divorce
Delia Lake: Question. if a husband and wife want to buy land and build a home together in the CDS, and it happens as is the case sometimes, that there is only one plot available, then only one of them would be a citizen even if they both paid on it?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we should find a way to ‘regularise’ the status of any citizens who joined the CDS (in good faith) but are technically not following NL 5-9. but that’s a separate issue
Claude Desmoulins: Coming soon CDS divorce court 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If the plot was big enough they could both be.
Delia Lake: this triggers some bad memories of rl conditions in the USA 25 yrs ago
Michel Manen: why just couples? why not three ro four or five people households? and why not business partners?
Sudane Erato: also, many partners cannot, for various reasons, avail themselves of the SL partnership system
Michel Manen: how far will we intrude in the bedrooms of our citizens?
Beathan Vale: or polygamists
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, do we get many groups wanting to come and join en bloc?
Sudane Erato: no
Michel Manen: how much control will we exert on the private lives of individuals?
Sudane Erato: none to my knowledge, except perhaps the esperantists
Justice Soothsayer: the only dilemmna with group ownership of land is because land=citizenship, and we don’t want large landowners to come with large groups of new citizens.
Beathan Vale: but we are not marketing to groups — we could see a change there with the right approach
Michel Manen: whose morality will we impose? whose values?
Patroklus Murakami: well, let’s not get too far away from what NL 5-9 was intended to achieve then
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not about morality michel. that’s not the issue at all
Pelanor Eldrich: I think part of the aim of this is to avoid the old Roman situation where a Patrician senator had a pile of freeloading plebian clientes who did nothing but vote for the boss.
Patroklus Murakami: back to the issue about needing to be a citizen first. claude, why do yoiu want to change this?
Sudane Erato: sounds like the new york city soituation 🙂
Michel Manen: this hasnt happened and is not going to. it s a red herring and scare crow issue
Beathan Vale: Chicago — the plebes don’t even have to be alive
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: So that couples or small partnerships (for example, Utarid and Springvale) can join CDS together,
Beathan Vale: actually — hasn’t there been an election in which the trick was played?
Beathan Vale: with microplots?
Claude Desmoulins: rather than joining separately, then selling a lot.
Beathan Vale: before my time — old timers?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, beathan. that was an issue previously
Sudane Erato: no… there were just accusations of that
Sudane Erato: but i think they were unfounded
Patroklus Murakami: admissions actually sudane 🙂
Beathan Vale: well — did the micro-citizens stay longterm after the election?
Sudane Erato: there are still a few] Patroklus Murakami: i believe some did and some didn’t. we repealed the microplot act shortly after (or rather the then RA did)
Claude Desmoulins: Pat did I answer your question?
Patroklus Murakami: on your point claude, would you be happier if couple could join as well as individuals?
Claude Desmoulins: I think that would addres most of the actual cases where this has been an issue.
Beathan Vale: Pat — I agree — we can start there at least
Michel Manen: its all about controlwhy just couples? why this abhorrent police state interference?
Patroklus Murakami: the problem with allowing current groiups to simply recruit new citizens at one per 128m2 is that we lay ourselves wide open to electoral manipulation
Claude Desmoulins: That comes back to the idea of a limit on the number of citizens who can tie citizenship to a group owned parcel.
Patroklus Murakami: michel, there’s no interference. just an attempt to tackle a real social problem
Justice Soothsayer: I seem to remember some discussion in the last election about using group ownership to allow citizenship for starving artisans.
Michel Manen: has electoral manipulation happened? is there any prospect of it happening? is this realy the most pressing issue this community is facing?

Beathan Vale: Pat — why are we any more open to that by allowing group-based citizenship — couldn’t a person finance private purchases in exchange for votes by funding the purchase of individual lots?
Claude Desmoulins: And Michel makes a good point about there being not a particularly good reason to distinguish philosophically between couples, trios, quartets, etc.
Patroklus Murakami: yes, electoral manipulation has happened. yes, there is a very real prospect of it happening if this act is passed
Beathan Vale: Claude — but there is a good practical reason — SL recognizes couples, not trios or quartets
Sudane Erato: SL recognizes gropups of any size
Justice Soothsayer: Well, Beathan, SL also recognizes groups.
Beathan Vale: true — but an av can be a member of multiple groups — only one partnership
Justice Soothsayer: and the group tools are a lot more robust now, could allow all sorts of partnering arrangments
Pelanor Eldrich: There’s no proof of it having happened, however it’s difficult to prove if it ever happened. The best solution is to provide a citizenship framework which makes it difficult to manipulate elections.
Michel Manen: it is just a scare crow nightmare dream in the minds of some individuals who have nothing better to do than dream up security theats which dodnt exist and use those in order to instill fear in the rest of us and thus strngthen their own positions.. the tactic is well known and has been used both historically and currently iRL
Beathan Vale: if we have group citizenship, we need to address both the issues of nominal citizenship and vote manipulation and potential plural citizenship
Beathan Vale: MM — it is a real risk
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll agree with you Beathan that a couples provision would address from a practical standpoint the cases in which strict enforcement of 5-9 as it now stands has been a difficulty for new citizens.
Beathan Vale: importing voters has also been used in SL and RL to manipulate elections
Patroklus Murakami: there is a philosophical distinction between coumichel, your argument is almost entirely self-serving given your own extensive land holdings and your desire for political power. really, you should recuse youself for the vote on this issue
Justice Soothsayer: It does not seem to be too onerous a requirement to ask that a citizen own 128m2 initially.
Michel Manen: hahaha…. so now we’re getting to the root of this…. why didnt you say so from the start pat?
Claude Desmoulins: If there a sutiably small lots available.
Claude Desmoulins: *are suitably.
Patroklus Murakami: do the math…
Pelanor Eldrich: Wow, this is starting to get ugly. Let’s all agree that citzenship is grandfathered and that we’re not pointing fingers at the past but trying to bulid the future.
Claude Desmoulins: If a citizen must own their own lot initially, what’s the real benefit of allowing citizenship from group lots?
Beathan Vale: citizenship is grandfathered — I think that should be an easy question
Justice Soothsayer: Group ownership has a lot of advantages; prim sharing etc.
Patroklus Murakami: aargh! claude, it’s to allow ppl to join together to realise larger project aims e.g. church or voluntary groups
Claude Desmoulins: But you could have all that on group lots without citizenship coming from those lots.
Patroklus Murakami: it allows ppl to pool resources
Beathan Vale: I don’t see the benefit from the buy-in requirement — why can’t a person just stuff the voter roles by buying and selling a single 128 lot through a series of new client citizens?
Justice Soothsayer: it;s a hurdle, admittedly a small one, Beathan
Claude Desmoulins: Make them keep their individual lots, let them use the group lot for their cultural center or what not, and de link group land from citizenship.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, there are ways to manipulate the current system. but even then there is a hurdle which we should only remove with great care 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: why claude? what purpose does that serve?
Claude Desmoulins: There are several group owned lots now on which no citizen relies for his/her citizenship
Claude Desmoulins: Then we don’t have to mess with prorated group fees and lists to Sudane , etc.
Beathan Vale: Why not just say — 2 citizens per lot, provided they are partners or members of the same group — if the group as more than 2 members, the group must designate its citizen members
Claude Desmoulins: The well though out, but nonetheless elaborate system in your proposal.
Claude Desmoulins: *thought
Beathan Vale: I thought the proposal said up to 5 cits per group
Claude Desmoulins: There are two proposals on the agenda.
Michel Manen: we should encurage more people to join us – not put unreasonable and xenophobic restrictions on entry!!
Patroklus Murakami: i accept the second proposal is more detailed. but sudane was responsible for the drafting. perhaps we could ask sudane to speak to the proposal?
Beathan Vale: anyone who wants to join the CDS can join — where is the xenophobia?
Sudane Erato: folks… please remember… that the real issue here is the fundamental definition of citizenship
Sudane Erato: what does citizenship mean?
Claude Desmoulins: The benefits of group land that I hear people discuss (prim sharing, etc>) seem to not be about citizenship.
Claude Desmoulins: So why not let group land be about those things and not about who are the citizens rooted on this group parcel.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s right claude. the benefits of the Group Land Ownership Act are about enabling collective projects to be realised in the CDS without sacrificing citizenship
Beathan Vale: well — I see the benefit of expanding citizenship to people who will be active — even if they do not have the RL financial resources to buy-in and maintain a parcel
Claude Desmoulins: But current law requires them to buy in individually.
Michel Manen: i agree with Beathan
Sudane Erato: the fee to maintain a small parcel is US$1/month
Sudane Erato: not very much
Pelanor Eldrich: I think Bethan is referring to sponsoring guild craftsmen.
Patroklus Murakami: yes claude. and once they have bought in individually they are free to form partnerships or larger groups and hold land in common
Beathan Vale: Pel — or others who will be active in the CDS
Beathan Vale: event sponsors — active retailers –etc.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes but let thatland just be about land.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan. up until now we have always insisted that, whatever ppl contribute to our community, they must also purchase land and pay towards our monthly fees
Claude Desmoulins: What is the benefit of allowing citizens to tie their citizenhip to a group parcel?
Beathan Vale: Pat — yes — and that seems oligarchic to me — plutocratic even — certainly not social democratic
Claude Desmoulins: Separate from the benefits of sharing land (prims etc.)
Patroklus Murakami: if we change that it is a fundamental change to CDS society and needs careful thought. when we’ve considered having ‘landless’ citizens before we’ve always rejected the idea
Beathan Vale: Pat — very right
Patroklus Murakami: hehe. SL produces some funny paradoxes, eh?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, my “landless citizen” with a $L tax went over like a Led Zeppelin.
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Michel Manen: too bad pel
Claude Desmoulins: I still don’t understand something,
Claude Desmoulins: If one is already a citizen what is the benefit of moving one’s citizenship to a group parcel as opposed to holding on to the individual 128m2?
Patroklus Murakami: claude, you get to merge you holdings with your significant other to build a bigger home together. or you merge your holdings with five friends to build a mosque. those are examples of the potential benefits. i doubt i will want to use them, but they are there for those who do
Claude Desmoulins: and adding the group parcel on top of that?
Claude Desmoulins: So let people do group lots but make theem keep their 128m2
Patroklus Murakami: well, you could collectively buy a larger plot and then sell your starter home to save money.
Claude Desmoulins: And the overhead of managing this is worth letting people save 1-2 dollars a month…oops reverse those two.
Patroklus Murakami: that way you retain citizenship through the group but don’t need to hold onto ‘useless’ land i.e. land you only keep to maintain CDS membership
Patroklus Murakami: well, it also frees up land for other citizens (and new citizens) to use
Patroklus Murakami: if we insist ppl keep their own plot as well, there is less land available for new citizens
Pelanor Eldrich: We’ve always tied citizenship to land. Citizens pay a monthly fee for land and a prim allotment. Having said that, I don’t really understand the attraction and function of 128m residential plots in SL. People are better off enjoying large builds and large sandboxes to work, but that’s just me I guess.
Claude Desmoulins: Beathan? any other thoughts?
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s not like RL.
Beathan Vale: Pel — I agree
Michel Manen: i agree with pel too
Beathan Vale: I would accept a 2 cits per 512 or larger lot rule — 1 cit for smaller lots
Patroklus Murakami: smaller lots act as an ‘entry point’ for people curious about the CDS. my first plot was a small one 🙂 and look how that turned out!
Beathan Vale: that seems like a modest and incremental move
Beathan Vale: see how it works — expand it later if it is working
Beathan Vale: but I think the individual lot buy-in rule is silly
Patroklus Murakami: beathan – do you mean to join the CDS?
Michel Manen: claude we have 4 minutes left.. are you calling a vote?
Claude Desmoulins: Could we work on a couples provision and a grandfather since we agree on those?
Beathan Vale: Pat — yes
Beathan Vale: and as long as tier is paid, I don’t really care who pays it
Patroklus Murakami: sure. happy to work on that
Michel Manen: i agree beathan re payment
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather table and come back next week as there seem to be a couple of areas of broad agreememnt not addressed in either current proposal.
Patroklus Murakami: there’s also some good points in teh second proposal that need to be included too though
Beathan Vale: this does raise the possibility of hijack by a wealthy person
Patroklus Murakami: for example that ppl need to pay their share themselves and that one citizen=one avatar=one RL person
Claude Desmoulins: IS hijack 2 at a time that different from hijack one at a time.
Michel Manen: its not goign to happen Beathan…..
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Claude Desmoulins: I withdraw my bill, let’s work with Pat/Sudane’s
Beathan Vale: Claude — yes, it is harder and slower
Claude Desmoulins: Can we table?
Claude Desmoulins: Two minutes to address a foreign relations crisis.
Patroklus Murakami: sure. i’m happy to work with others to refine the proposal. just IM me
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: :0
Claude Desmoulins: As you have likely heard Port Neualtenburg and Caledon are at war 🙁
Michel Manen: they made peace yeasterday
Michel Manen: they had a big reuinion ball
Sudane Erato: do we care?
Michel Manen: i was there
Beathan Vale: Kendra was kidnapped this morning, yes?
Michel Manen: ah what?/
Patroklus Murakami: yes, kendra posted on our forums today
Patroklus Murakami: asking for our help
Michel Manen: lol
Beathan Vale: she is being held in Caledon — at least as of 5am this morning
Michel Manen: why?
Michel Manen: thats too funny
Claude Desmoulins: I personally believe a policy of strict neutrality serves the CDS the best.
Michel Manen: aye
Sudane Erato: i agree
Beathan Vale: Strict neutrality with an announcement that we recognize Caledon, but consider Port Neualtenburg to be a rogue state?
Patroklus Murakami: but CDS freedome fighters are not under this govenment’s control
Michel Manen: hahahaha
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone wish to draft a bill for next session or do we want to take extraordinary steps and pass something today?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Michel Manen: no just a simple resolution declaring strivt neutrality
Beathan Vale: Pat — forming an Abraham Lincoln brigade to fight agaisnt Calefonian hostility?
Patroklus Murakami: no, it’s a bit of fun. but refreshingly light-hearted given the history…
Patroklus Murakami: hehe!
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need to do that resolution today?
Delia Lake: yes, and a bit astonishing
Beathan Vale: I see it now — Claude’s re-election motto — “he kept us out of war”
Michel Manen: well claude its one sentence
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: no, democracy is notoriously slow. we should think about a resolution when kendra’s been holed up for a week for two!
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps establish a virtual UN first, so it can twiddle its thumbs for us?
Beathan Vale: how about announce strict neutrality, deplore hostage taking, and request a restoration of amicable relations
Michel Manen: The CDS , though its elected body, the RA, declares that it is CDS policy to adopt a poistion of strict neutrality and non-interference between conflicts involving foreign powers.
Beathan Vale: MM — too much — I don’t want to tie our hands like that
Patroklus Murakami: you know, fun thought this is. i don’t think we should really get involved officially in play-acting diplomacy
Patroklus Murakami: if ppl want to do that off their own initiative, so be it
Claude Desmoulins: Submit your draft resolutions for next week.
Claude Desmoulins: If you wish
Beathan Vale: kk
Michel Manen: ok
Claude Desmoulins: We’re out of time.
Michel Manen: thank you all
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to adjournment?
Patroklus Murakami: no
Michel Manen: nay
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned until Thursday at 7 pm in the Rathaus.
The meeting closed at 13:05 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 13, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 165, 41)

Meeting on 2007-05-13
Those present:
Justice Soothsayer is in the chair.
Beathan Vale: brb
Justice Soothsayer: np
Beathan Vale: back
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Pat
Patroklus Murakami: hi justice, beathan 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Mizou was here a minute ago; I understand she is the new CARE member
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i think that’s right
Beathan Vale: yep
Beathan Vale: brb
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Mizou Vavoom: good evening
Patroklus Murakami: hi mizou. good evening
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Mizou
Mizou Vavoom: where shall i sit?
Justice Soothsayer: anyplace you’d like
Justice Soothsayer: Claude gave me a copy of the agenda, but I don’t seem to be able to add it to the dispenser on the table, so I’m giving it to each of you individually.
Patroklus Murakami: wow. fairly packed agenda 🙂
Mizou Vavoom: thkx
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Bromo
Beathan Vale: I have nothing to report yet — still reading up on Code revision
Bromo Ivory: Hello – I just bought land in NFS this weekend!@
Beathan Vale: thinking about how to organize Code by topic so that it is searchable
Justice Soothsayer: wlecome, Bromo, glad to have you join us.
Patroklus Murakami: hi bromo. welcome to teh CDS 🙂
Bromo Ivory: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Everyone, please touch the recorder on the table to indicate consent to recording.
Beathan Vale: and I’m not sure who else is on committee — anyone know?
Mizou Vavoom: welcome bromo
Beathan Vale: hi Bromo
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Hi guys
Beathan Vale: hi TOP
Patroklus Murakami: nope, sorry beathan
Beathan Vale: lol
Mizou Vavoom: hi top
Patroklus Murakami: hi TOP
Justice Soothsayer: I think Publius said he was willing to continue to help
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hi Mizou 🙂
Beathan Vale: OK
Mizou Vavoom: hi Delia
Beathan Vale: hi Delia
Justice Soothsayer: We need to welcome the talented Mizou Vavoom to the RA, succeeding Michel.
Mizou Vavoom: 🙂
Delia Lake: hi Beathan
Patroklus Murakami: indeed. welcome to the RA, Mizou 🙂
Mizou Vavoom: thkx
Beathan Vale: yep — welcome Mizou — hi Delia
Justice Soothsayer: I’m leading today in Claude absence, and thanks everyone for accomodating me in delaying this due to mother’s day.
Justice Soothsayer: Sorry I couldn’t be here sooner.
Patroklus Murakami: np:)
Justice Soothsayer: So, Beathan, nothing else to report on the Code as yet, right?
Beathan Vale: right
Beathan Vale: still getting my legs under me on that one
Justice Soothsayer: So let’s move on to the first bill, Sale of Undeveloped Area.
Justice Soothsayer: The Area Formerly Known as Altenburg.
Justice Soothsayer: Any discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: there’s one bit i don’t understand about this proposal. why the requirement ‘will only be sold to prospective citizens with a maximum of one per person’
TOPGenosse Brouwer: wb Pel
Justice Soothsayer: hmm, not sure. probably just to make sure that the lots go to the largest possible number of people interested, I suppose.
Beathan Vale: Hi Pel
Patroklus Murakami: does that mean current citizens are not allowed to buy these plots?
Justice Soothsayer: yes, that’s the way I read it, it would be limited to newcomers.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yes I wrote that bill
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: I think it is an attempt to use the resale to enourage immigration
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi All
Mizou Vavoom: hi Pel
Patroklus Murakami: hi pel 🙂
Bromo Ivory: How will we determine prospective citizens? They express interest in purchase and there is no suitable traditional parcel?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: that’s right: only for new/prospective citizens –> to allow the max. number of new people into the CDS … since Michel put his NFS plots on sale there have been at least 3 new buyers so there’s certainly demand … But on the other hand, I don’t think Ali is re-parceling the area YET so there’s no hurry with the bill
Patroklus Murakami: presumaby bromo. only for new ppl
TOPGenosse Brouwer: In other words: to put *opportunities* for new CDS-ers above *more land* for existing citizens
Bromo Ivory: What happens when the new SIM opens?
Mizou Vavoom: sounds ggod
Mizou Vavoom: good
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Bromo > then the bill/act will expire
Justice Soothsayer: these lots are only for sale until the 3rd sim opens up
Bromo Ivory: I mean to the plots once bought?
Patroklus Murakami: if there’s no hurry i’d like to give it some thought. i agree with encouraging new citizens to join us but doesn’t it set a strange precedent to restrict sales so that current citizens can’t purchase them?
Beathan Vale: but perhaps we should allow exceptions for current citizens who have a demonstrated need for more prims —
Justice Soothsayer: ah, they would still be owned by whoever buys them
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sounds good Beathan
Beathan Vale: I understand that a claimed prim shortage led to the protest against CARE
Mizou Vavoom: yes Beathan i second that
Justice Soothsayer: hard to differentiate between “needs” more prims and “wants” more prims
Mizou Vavoom: hmmm
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I won’t mind if you want to discuss it more .. but I’d like to put it to more creative use than just existing citizens buying up more land.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sorry to be difficult but why should a current citizen have to meet a higher restriction ‘needs more prims’ than a newcomer? it seems unfair
Beathan Vale: TOP — I agree as a general rule — but I am also mindful of Jeremy Bender’s request for more prims — although he is in CN, not Neuf
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat > It wouldn’t surprise me if in some months there will be very few plots left .. why not leave those few in the Undeveloped area for prospective/new citizens?
Bromo Ivory: As a newcomer I was overjoyed that I was able to become a member – and I ended up with 77, which is tight for me, but I can live with it easily if this berings more people to CDS
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I agree, Beathan
Bromo Ivory: (meaning others get the same chance)

Bromo Ivory: (I joined for community not prims)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Please discuss it some more and move on with the agenda. I”m not even a citizen so I can’t legally submit bills! 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I’m not sure we want to segregate newbies into one area, which might be a result.
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think that we have a dual policy in play here — 1. put land to beneficial use and 2. encourage immigration
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Unless Ali is sponsoring this one
Justice Soothsayer: Ali is listed as sponsor of this one, TOP.
Beathan Vale: it is not unfair given this dual purpose — would only be unfair if we did not have the second purpose
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Justice: No newbies can buy *everything*, oldbies just can’t buy Altenburg plots
Beathan Vale: hmmm — a newbie Ghetto? that would be bad
Patroklus Murakami: i understand teh motivation. i agree with it, to some extent. but it seems like unnecessary social engineering. why can’t the plots be available to anyone who wants them?
Mizou Vavoom: is oy yo encourage new members
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Yes, — What will happen if the plots run out when the 3rd sim isn’t open yet?? Will we just tell people to wait a few months? Of course you could only vote FOR it, if you think land will be in short supply .. — maybe it won’t be ..
Delia Lake: i also think we need to encourage new people to buy plots in NFS and become citizens
Patroklus Murakami: another way to encourage new members would be to forbid people from owning more than one parcel. do we think that would be a good idea?
Pelanor Eldrich: Land (m2), prims, and script execution cycles per second are the main “raw materials” of SL. We need them available if we want to do anything more than use SL to buy stuff and IM people.
Mizou Vavoom: yes certainly
Beathan Vale: TOP — right — we need to make a policy choice to avoid being completely full
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Beathan: “Ghetto” –> people can still submit re-parceling plans to Aliasi, so it can be a mixed bag of plots
Beathan Vale: if we do not have plots available for newbies — we need to have some alternative method (even a temporary method) for becoming a citizen
TOPGenosse Brouwer: true ..
Mizou Vavoom: an apartment building?
Justice Soothsayer: with several plots for sale these days, I’m not sure that we have a plot shortage.
Beathan Vale: TOP — I was using “Ghetto” in the sense of a Jewish neighborhood apart — not in the sense of a slum
Mizou Vavoom: rentals?
TOPGenosse Brouwer nods
Patroklus Murakami: that sounds like a discussion for later beathan, under citizenship 🙂
Bromo Ivory: There are 5 plots for sale. I was told that “there wsn’t much expressed interest”
Beathan Vale: Pat — true — but the policy is in play now too
Bromo Ivory: I bought 1
Beathan Vale: Bromo — hmmm …
Justice Soothsayer: Is it fair to say that we all think the AFKAA should be redeveloped for sale?
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes, justice
Mizou Vavoom: yes
Pelanor Eldrich: AFKAA?

Justice Soothsayer: Question seems to be limited to whether it should be reserved just for newcomers
Delia Lake has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: (Area Formerly Known As Alternburg)
Beathan Vale: unless we want an Ulrika/Ashcroft/Michel triumvirate memorial park 😉
Justice Soothsayer: heh
Mizou Vavoom: 🙂
Bromo Ivory: I would reserve at least some
Pelanor Eldrich: Beathan, Michel is still with us.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m opposed to reserving it for newcomers, no matter how well-intentioned that is, it sets a bad precedent
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat > Didn’t brian brainstorm about something like: relocated ‘evicted’/moved Platz-shopowners there? You can do all sorts of creative stuff with it.
Beathan Vale: Pel — isn’t he selling off his lots?
Pelanor Eldrich: I don’t know about that.
Mizou Vavoom: only on NFS
Beathan Vale: ah — OK
Beathan Vale: good
Patroklus Murakami: but reserving ‘half’ would be an acceptable compromise 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: politics is the art of teh possible after all
Mizou Vavoom: what is th esize of that area?
Justice Soothsayer: though still precedent setting, pat.
Beathan Vale: I would second a half-way plan
Patroklus Murakami: true. i’m just trying to be conciliatory 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 2400 sqm, excl. road and excl. area below Schloss balcony
Mizou Vavoom: and divided into how any plots?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I divided into 5 ‘boring’ plots: 3 x 55 prim, 2 x 75 prim .. something like that ..
Mizou Vavoom: hmm not much to contend with
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (keeping the cute bridge, but it can be removed)
Justice Soothsayer: How about this for an amended bill:
Justice Soothsayer: “Parcels in the ‘undeveloped area’ (formerly known as ‘Altenburg’ area) SHOULD BE REDEVELOPED FOR SALE WITH ONE HALF RESERVED FOR prospective citizens with a maximum of one per person. This act will expire when parcels from the third CDS sim go on sale to the general public.”
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (55 prims is not much but at least better than those sparton 33 prims on the Platz .. or 44 on Michel’s former NFS plots ..)
Justice Soothsayer: (new language in all CAPS)
Mizou Vavoom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: that works for me, justice
Beathan Vale: Justice — good
Justice Soothsayer: are we ready to vote?
Bromo Ivory: I like it
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Beathan Vale: Sunset clauses are wise
Mizou Vavoom: ok
Justice Soothsayer: All in favor?
Mizou Vavoom: yes
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Bromo Ivory: yes
Beathan Vale: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: Bromo, you get an opinion, not a vote!
Bromo Ivory: (I just bought land)
Bromo Ivory: (But OK)
Beathan Vale: Bromo — republican representative democracy — this is like a Congress
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Thanks for supporting this, reps 🙂
Bromo Ivory: (I see, sorry got carried away!)
Beathan Vale: np
Justice Soothsayer: np
Mizou Vavoom: 🙂
Beathan Vale: good to see interest and enthusiasm
Pelanor Eldrich: (You didn’t win a seat in the last RA election, but feel free to run for next session).
Justice Soothsayer: Next item: Citizenship Commission.
Justice Soothsayer: Pat has a substitute bill which Claude has placed on the agenda ahead of Michel’s.
Beathan Vale: I like Pat’s bill as written
Justice Soothsayer: I like Pat’s as well, much cleaner
Patroklus Murakami: would u like me to introduce the bill?
Justice Soothsayer: Feel free to speak about it, Pat.
Patroklus Murakami: ty justice.
Patroklus Murakami: well, citizenship and how we define it, is an issue that has been around for some time.
Patroklus Murakami: i think michel’s idea of a citizenship commission has some merit. but his original bill was a bit too long and had too many contentious statements for my liking 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: this is a simplified version that does teh same job
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not a wholehearted supporter of a citizenship commission; it’s something i think we should agree to if we *really* feel there’s a need
Patroklus Murakami: and i’d like to nominate justice as chair!
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Pat, but now I have to vote against the bill!
Beathan Vale: I think that we need to continue to explore the idea of CDS citizenship with a goal of encouraging immigration and participation
Patroklus Murakami: oh dear. we lost mizou 🙁
Beathan Vale: I’m not sure that a commission is the best method — but doing something is better than the alternative
Justice Soothsayer: I think having a commission will help gauge whether this is an important issue for the citizens, and I’m all for more public participation in the debates.
Justice Soothsayer: Fortunately, this should be less polarizing than the last commission — judiciary — as there don’t seem to be as sharply contrasting positions.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to remind the RA that CARE summarily left the assembly because they were unsatisfied with amount of public consultation about this vitally important topic. Imagine redefining American citizenship, it’s a big topic requiring full transparency and public consultation.
Justice Soothsayer: welcome back, Mizou.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: wb Mizou
Patroklus Murakami: *cough* the last commission was ‘regional planning’, it was much less contentious than the judiciary commission
Justice Soothsayer: quite right, Pat.
Patroklus Murakami keeps schtum for a moment 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: schtum?
Patroklus Murakami: schtum = quiet
Justice Soothsayer: is there any other discussion?
Beathan Vale: Pat — so much for openness 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: /twiddles
Justice Soothsayer: Mizou seems to keep crashing
Patroklus Murakami: i’m trying not to react to pel’s analysis of why michel left teh RA. needless to say, i disagree with it 🙂
Beathan Vale: Pel — Michel’s explanation seems pretextual at best
Justice Soothsayer: 🙁
Beathan Vale: I’m having connection trouble to — might crash soon
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps not so helpful to get into right now?
Beathan Vale: and the SL site is having trouble — might be LL problem
TOPGenosse Brouwer: *cough* .. “NL 5-12 Cit. Involvement Act” —-> Commissions shall have at least 3 members …. That’s not really the case for the Reorganisation Commission, is it?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: but it’s not a perfect world 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we should look at teh idea of a citizenship commission on its merits. and try to ignore some of the surrounding drama
Pelanor Eldrich: /nod
Justice Soothsayer: yes, let’s keep focus on the issues not the personalities
Beathan Vale: Pat — exactly — and the idea has a lot of merit
Beathan Vale: it would involve the citizens in the very essence of their own role in the CDS
Pelanor Eldrich: Fair elections and promoting immigration.
Patroklus Murakami: TOP. teh commission has other members as well as teh RA chair. the regional planning one had *lots* of participants
Beathan Vale: and would raise important additional issues on citizen control of govt, rights, immigration
Patroklus Murakami: i think we’re edging towards approval… but who will chair it? 🙂
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Pat > True .. I just hope the Code Reorg. Comm. can get some more people too .. it’s a good initiative, IMO.
Beathan Vale: Claude
Beathan Vale: he’s not here to say no
Justice Soothsayer: I’m actually in favor of the bill, Pat, but I don’t want to chair it.
Pelanor Eldrich: What about Mizou?
Justice Soothsayer: that will teach her to stop crashing 😉
Justice Soothsayer: ah, back in time to decline the job!
Mizou Vavoom: sorry crash!
Beathan Vale: Hi Mizou — we were just about to draft you to chari the citizen commission
Patroklus Murakami: wb mizou. your new colleagues are volunteering u for work while you’re safely out fof the way 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: not very friendly of us, i’m afraid.
Mizou Vavoom: which work ?
Pelanor Eldrich: To chair the citizenship commission.
Mizou Vavoom: oh?
Mizou Vavoom: hmmm
Justice Soothsayer: Bethan, Pat & I have all expressed support for Pat’s bill.
Mizou Vavoom: yes i i was going to say same
Mizou Vavoom: but to make me chair it lol
Bromo Ivory: The Bill Mentions Citizens might be able to participate??
Mizou Vavoom: am only new on the block
Beathan Vale: LOL — Mizou — same thing happened to me last week
Patroklus Murakami: oh yes, bromo. the whole idea is to encourage citizen participation
Beathan Vale: Bromo — yes – that’s the point —
Pelanor Eldrich: I know that CARE wanted the commission very much, I think it would be a good experience. Looks like Bruno already wants to participate. 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: sort of a hazing ritual for new RA members
Bromo Ivory: (9Then I want to volunteer))
Mizou Vavoom: ok well can i give my descion tomorrow/
Justice Soothsayer: and you already have your first member.
Bromo Ivory: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Mizou Vavoom: ok well a goof beginning
Mizou Vavoom: good :0
Justice Soothsayer: Someone needs to remind me, does the RA name the chair, or does Claude do it?
Patroklus Murakami searches for RA procedures…
Pelanor Eldrich: A chair is a chair is a chair…oh wait, that’s roses.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: heheh
Justice Soothsayer: well, Mizou, let’s vote on the bill first.
Patroklus Murakami: doesn’t really say. i think its for the RA to decide on teh chair
Pelanor Eldrichh
Justice Soothsayer: Then we can decide on the chair via email if necessary.
Mizou Vavoom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Justice Soothsayer: Any further discussion on Pat’s bill, or ar eyou ready to vote?
Mizou Vavoom: ready
Beathan Vale: rdy
Patroklus Murakami: ready
Justice Soothsayer: All in favor of Pat’s bill?
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Mizou Vavoom: tes
Mizou Vavoom: yes
Justice Soothsayer votes aye. The motion carries, 4-0.
Justice Soothsayer: I believe Pat’s bill was introduced as a substitute to Michel’s, so we can take Michel’s off the agenda.
Beathan Vale: yep
Mizou Vavoom: oki
Patroklus Murakami: i think that makes sense
Justice Soothsayer: Pat, does this also dispose of the Group Ownership bill for now, pending dicussion by the Commission?
Patroklus Murakami: i think it makes sense to put it on ice, pending the outcome of the commission
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Justice Soothsayer: So that brings us to Public Radio.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hm …. postponing an implementation of Sudane’s new payment system doesn’t sound like a good idea .. or will the Citenship Commission reach it’s results soon?
Patroklus Murakami: the implementation of the payment system can take place independently of the discussion. sudane pointed out that it was muddling up two issues
Justice Soothsayer: I don’t think that creating the commission on citizenship postpones implementing a new payment system.
Patroklus Murakami: one political and one administrative
Justice Soothsayer: but it might mean changes to the system later on, depending on what is decided. we’ll still need a way to collect $L.
Patroklus Murakami: hopefully something that makes sudane’s life easier….
Justice Soothsayer: As to radio, I’d like to discuss that one a bit more on the forums, and to suggest that the sponsor(s) might want to be present.
Mizou Vavoom: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i thought that drax was supposed to be coming to give a presentation on this?
Justice Soothsayer: I’m about at the end of my time this afternoon.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ve IMed Michel
Patroklus Murakami: well, i’ve made my views clear on the forums. this is a great idea but perhaps too ambitious. i’d love to see someone start a CDS podcast tho
Pelanor Eldrich: Maybe we could ask for a document from Drax and some emailed Q&A
Patroklus Murakami: begin with baby steps and then build from there
Beathan Vale: I agree Pat

Justice Soothsayer: I’d be more inclined to support it if the sponsors came to us with commitments for other funding for us to match, rather than having us make the commitment to matching funds first.
Justice Soothsayer: But I like that it is limited to matching funds, and only for a limited time.
Patroklus Murakami: yes justice. ‘up to’ $50/month is a lot for our community
Justice Soothsayer: indeed
Beathan Vale: I would prefer some non-cash match — such as donated land with a CDS tier payment of up to $50/month
Beathan Vale: otherwise, I want to see a cash-flow analysis
Beathan Vale: and a cost/benefit analysis
Beathan Vale: so far the benefits seem hazy
Beathan Vale: but the costs seem clear
Beathan Vale: I don’t much like that
Beathan Vale: on the other hand — Drax is contirbuting a $500 computer to the project
Pelanor Eldrich: Michel is offline
Beathan Vale: but that contribution is treated like a loan —
Justice Soothsayer: well, lets postpone further discussion of this to the next meeting, and encourage everyone to put in their L$.02 on the forums.
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Beathan Vale: sounds good
Mizou Vavoom: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I’m afraid I have to leave very soon.
Beathan Vale: me too
Mizou Vavoom: same here
Justice Soothsayer: Any objection to adjouring?
Patroklus Murakami: me too
Beathan Vale: lol
Mizou Vavoom: ok by me
Patroklus Murakami: nope, happy to adjourn
Justice Soothsayer: Mizou, great job on your first meeting!
Mizou Vavoom: hmmm di di have any choice lol
Justice Soothsayer: Let me remind everyone to touch the recorder if you haven’t already to indicate consent.
Mizou Vavoom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: So — we’re adjourned.
Justice Soothsayer: thanks for coming, everyone.
Patroklus Murakami: cheerio everybody 🙂
Mizou Vavoom: thkx Justice
Bromo Ivory: (9Glad to observe!))
Mizou Vavoom: au revoir
The meeting closed at 14:58 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 20, 2007

Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (198, 184, 178)

Meeting on 2007-05-20
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: what’s on the agenda today?
Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Not much
Claude Desmoulins: I think everyone is still at the guild meeting.
Justice Soothsayer: howdy
Patroklus Murakami: hi justice:)
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Well we have a quorum 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the recorder
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s start.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll postpone Mizou and Beathan’s reports until they arrive.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: knock, knock 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: hi Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Greetings
Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope there is room for one more 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah thank you CLaude 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have to postpone reports….
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has to report that everybody looks ruthed to me today 😛
Justice Soothsayer: ruthed?
Claude Desmoulins: Unfortunately, Pel hasn’t posted anythingfrom the last meeting yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, reverting to the default avatar ? Ruth
Patroklus Murakami: ooohn nice 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not really, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Now there would be a screen cap 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn will do nothing of the sort 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too embarassing hehe
Claude Desmoulins: So, the first thing we can look at is VPR.
Claude Desmoulins: Where was this left last week?
Justice Soothsayer: we discussed it a bit, and decided we wanted to carry it over to allow sponsors to come to advocate for it.
Patroklus Murakami: drax was at the citizenship commisison yesterday
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack, it was yesterday? 😛
Claude Desmoulins: I’m really torn here.
Patroklus Murakami: he made a passionate case for the VPR proposal
Claude Desmoulins: Care to summarize?
Patroklus Murakami: but i think we need to see a full cost/benefit analysis and understand the numbers better. it’s a lot of money
Patroklus Murakami: his case?
Patroklus Murakami: well, that VPR would be an excellent way to advertise the CDS to wider SL
Patroklus Murakami: that we could maintain high standards (similar to NPR in the US)
Claude Desmoulins: I like the idea of new media, but….
Patroklus Murakami: that no one else is doing this yet
Patroklus Murakami: it’s an oppportunity
Patroklus Murakami: i hope I’m paraphrasing corrrectly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew I’m glad I don’t need to worry about this 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: …a broadcasting venture seems very tangential to SL, and we’ve never directly subsidized an organization.
Claude Desmoulins: Or have we, Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, you see, I’m totally in favour of it, if I don’t have to put up the work for it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really, in the sense of “direct”, no.
Claude Desmoulins: support has always been prims and the like, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: $86.00 US per month ? well…
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.

Gwyneth Llewelyn: prims, and well, special rates for land (or zero)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a broader covenant…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I understand Drax’s point.
Claude Desmoulins: But VPR has no real need of ny of that, do they?
Patroklus Murakami: my main problem is that cost. but also – ‘what’s teh point of attracting all and sundry to the CDS when there’s no way they can become citizens?’ we need to crack that nut first.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see… there is not really much the CDS can “give” the VPR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: except, well, money.
Claude Desmoulins: except cash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye indeed
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a great idea though. perhaps better implemented when we have more citizens and more disposable income?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t influence you guys, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I better shut up 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: drax is *very* enthusiastic though. i’m sure he’d make it work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m almost as enthusiastic as he is, Pat, but just for one reason:
Claude Desmoulins: How do we feel about the principle of direct subsidy?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: writing a document, well, anyone can do that.
Justice Soothsayer: i’d also like to see some other financial commitments before we agree to providing matching funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… having the courage, enthusiasm, and skill to do it… we won’t have a second opportunity.
Mizou Vavoom: hi evbrybody am outside but no idea where to enter for meeting
Justice Soothsayer: hi Mizou
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Mizou!
Mizou Vavoom: hi sorry being late problems logijng in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, and hi as well, Beathan!
Beathan Vale: lol
Claude Desmoulins: North sside of the building.
Mizou Vavoom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn what’s your one reason for enthusiasm?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Opportunity, skill, and enthusiasm,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all thrown into one package.
Patroklus Murakami: i have no problem with the subsidy in principle. the question is whether we can afford it, is it value for money right now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was what made the MoCA finally work ? remember?
Claude Desmoulins: Am I hearing that it’s the $L figure that worries us rather than the overall idea?
Patroklus Murakami: from me? yes
Claude Desmoulins: Oops
Justice Soothsayer: yes, it’s a cost/benefit analysis; the idea of our collective subsidy of public radio is unobjectionable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww it’s awful to be poor, lol ? three years ago, I’d put up the money from my own pocket, and just get the CDS Bank to emit bonds on it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and then get it repaid as soon as this started to get a return on investment
Gwyneth Llewelyn takes a look at the way Drax is proposing citizen’s participation in this venture
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a lot of detail to settle but, do we agree that $50/month would be an acceptable investment?
Beathan Vale: I agree with that

Patroklus Murakami: is there agreement to the idea ‘in principle’?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “VPR Membership costs will be of $1.50 per month payable on a monthly basis, or $12.00 per year payable on a yearly basis. ”
Claude Desmoulins: I wish I had a better sense of what the budget would bear.
Claude Desmoulins: And here’s Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane
Patroklus Murakami: as if by magic 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: if its a choice between expansion and public radio, I’m for expansion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah great 🙂 welcome again, Sudane!
Claude Desmoulins: VPR is asking the CDS for up to $50/mo US in match.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: ty
Claude Desmoulins: It is all matching funds, correct?
Patroklus Murakami: if we go for pel’s poll tax, we could afford *both* expansion and VPR (and lots more besides….)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3.2.b) the CDS Government will match all CDS citizens? membership fees and donations, on a dollar-for dollar-basis, up to a maximum of $50.00 US per month. The CDS Government will be entitled to submit ideas and content for VPR transmissions, subject to the approval of the Board, at no cost.
Beathan Vale: true — but we can count on requiring the match — I think MM will put up $50 to match from the start
Beathan Vale: he wil reduce his contribution as others contribute — to maximize the CDS match
Claude Desmoulins: What would that do to the budget ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll put something as well, most likely ? LOL
Beathan Vale: so — we should assume a $50/month obligation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye I think that’s safer to assume as well.
Sudane Erato: sorry… just looking at the actual numbers
Beathan Vale: Gwyn — I probably will too
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: BTW does anyone not have an agenda?
Sudane Erato: well… catual monthly revenue varies by a great deal
Sudane Erato: actual
Sudane Erato: in Mar it was 450… and we lost money
Sudane Erato: in Apr it was 950
Sudane Erato: and obviously we accumulated $$
Sudane Erato: the $50 could certainly be handled…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* The way I understand it, Sudane, it’s often the “buying-in” of plots that makes up for any lack of cash liquidity?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: the variable comes from people buying abandoned land
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: and from people pre-paying their fees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: true 🙂
Sudane Erato: I post prepaid fees as revenue
Sudane Erato: even tho I should not
Sudane Erato: so there is a great variablity
Claude Desmoulins: Would we want to amend this with a sunset clause?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that would make a lot of sense…
Claude Desmoulins: To compel the next RA to revisit?
Sudane Erato: but its a quite significant amount of the revenues
Sudane Erato: and would become the second largest thing… by a long shot
Sudane Erato: that we pay for
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a review clause built in at two years

Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye ? 10-15% approximately 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: That’s eons in Sl.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 years is a lot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed …
Claude Desmoulins: I was thinking more like six months
Beathan Vale: 2 years is forever in SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude
Beathan Vale: I prefer to have things capped at a length that coincides with RA elections as the longest
Beathan Vale: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Or we could reduce the match committment to something like $30 or $35
Sudane Erato: that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6 months, well, that would be slightly below an extra month of costs
Patroklus Murakami: is 6 months practical tho? we need to have drax’s input on that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Beathan Vale: shorter term makes more sense than reduced funding I think
Claude Desmoulins: Well that’s two months which isn’t practical for VPR to get started.
Beathan Vale: let’s us cut off a bleed —
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in SL, well, if you can’t put a project up in 6 months and make it self-sustaining,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s better not even to try it 🙂
Beathan Vale: Claude — that is true — we should have 8 months to start — then 6 thereafter to coincide with RA elections
Claude Desmoulins: So I’ll propose an amendment to 3-2-b
Claude Desmoulins: after $50 US per month….
Justice Soothsayer: also, we budget on a 6-month basis, so our budgeting discussions will be a good place to determine the continued value of public radio.
Claude Desmoulins: add, beginning June 1 2007 and ending March 1 2008.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Justice, in that case, this would be something on next term’s budget then?
Claude Desmoulins: Remember that budgets start and end 1 month after a new RA takes office
Beathan Vale: why until March — I was thinking more like Jan
Rubaiyat Shatner has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: To line up with the budget
Beathan Vale: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, like Claude said.
Patroklus Murakami: why don’t we simply agree to enter into negotiations with Drax on the terms of the bill and see what can be agreed? our discussion on timing etc can form the basis for our opening position
Beathan Vale: I think we should pass a bill first — and present that as the basis for negotiation — and also as a basis to move forward
Beathan Vale: given our meeting schedule — waiting might be a problem
Claude Desmoulins: And if the bill sets a time limit on funding.
Claude Desmoulins: VPR has an incentive to negotiate
Patroklus Murakami: that sets too much of a constraint beathan. we don’t know what is open to negotation and what isn’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the only issue I see is very simple,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the amounts are low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the CDS “negotiates” too much,
Patroklus Murakami: no point picking a fight over the duration if the only issue up for debate is the cost, for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyone in SL will be glad to sponsor that project, one way or the other.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, you’re totally right 🙂

Claude Desmoulins: OTOH
Gwyneth Llewelyn: will simply get funding elsewhere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Stalling” ? as we in the CDS are so good at ? mostly means that people with clever ideas, enthusiasm, and the required set of skills
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A good example: Redak and his “Democrat”
Claude Desmoulins: I have difficulty placing two or three future governments under an obligation like this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, there are more examples.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Beathan Vale: I think that a funding commitment of 10 months — with a high likelihood of reinforcing success after that — is more supportive than a promise to negotiate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 10 months…!
Beathan Vale: form June until March is 10 months
Patroklus Murakami: claude, you put countless future RAs under the obligation of paying for CN when u approved that. it’s not really that much of an issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touch?, Pat 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the question is whether it’s a responsible decision to make or not
Claude Desmoulins: I tend to agree with Gwyn about not negotiating this to death.
Beathan Vale: Pat — true
Claude Desmoulins: If we wantto negotiate, what are we negotiating for?
Beathan Vale: I have concerns there — but with a sunset clause, my concerns are lessened
Claude Desmoulins: I call the question on the amendment
Patroklus Murakami: when i say ‘negotiating’ i mean ‘acknowledging to Drax that we support the idea, in principle’ but that we have concerns. we want to discuss what is open for negotiation in the proposal so that we can make an informed decision to support this or not
Patroklus Murakami: what’s the point of passing this amendment when u don’t know it it scuppers the whole plan or not?
Patroklus Murakami: don’t we need to talk to drax first?
Beathan Vale: we can pass something called “interim and startup funding pending negotiation”
Justice Soothsayer: Claude, your amendment is fine; I couldn’t support a 2-year funding commitment at this point
Beathan Vale: show of actual support as an indication of good faith going into negotiation
Claude Desmoulins: The question has been called on the amendment
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami: and if u pass the amendment are you then going to call a vote on the whole bill? have you read the whole bill?
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Patroklus Murakami: nay to the amendment
Justice Soothsayer: aye to the amendment
Mizou Vavoom: aye
Claude Desmoulins: I now suggest that we should move the bill as amended to forum discuswsion.
Beathan Vale: that defeats the purpose of the amendment as I see it
Claude Desmoulins: To give Drax a chance to comment on its current form before a final vote on passage.
Beathan Vale: I would like a reading and vote on amended bill now
Beathan Vale: I don’t want to go into negotiation saying — we changed what you asked for — now talk to us
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, if u call a vote now I’m not sure i can support it

Beathan Vale: I want to say — this is what we will do — but we are still willing to talk
Beathan Vale: hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The amendment is just on the commitment on the 2 years?
Justice Soothsayer: I’d still like to know what other support is out there before we commit to the match. Do they really have $50/mo for us to match?
Claude Desmoulins: It time limts the fund match
Patroklus Murakami: yes gwyn, and there’s a lot of other stuff to discuss…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn believes that at that rate,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with 40 or so points on the bill,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and an amendment + public consultation on each,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s a year of discussion.
Beathan Vale: yes — Gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: is the structure right? does teh RA have enough oversight? etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should be honest with Drax then,
Claude Desmoulins: I think Beathan is right that Michel and others will find the funds ASAP to get the match
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and tell him to ask sponsorship from Desmond or Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He’ll get it in 2-3 days…
Beathan Vale: Gwyn — I agree — and we wil have lost another opportunity
Claude Desmoulins: I’m comfortable with the structure.
Patroklus Murakami: so we have to agree this or kill it? i don’t accept we have to do that gwyn
Beathan Vale: I say we move forward with the project, as ameded, now — and let Drax say no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say we already did, Beathan
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Beathan Vale: if he wants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, there is something called “cost of opportunity” 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The major issue her is just one. It’s not the “VPR”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can certainly discuss VPRs without rax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Drax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and even take 1-2 years for that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue is the cost of opportunity for *Drax*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He can do it with us ? because he likes the CDS and its citizens ? in 2008,
Patroklus Murakami: i say we seize the opportunity by talking to Drax about the proposal and saying we want to go forward with it. i don’t see why we have to pass this bill though, especially when the RA has not properly considered it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or he can get funding elsewhere
Claude Desmoulins: What issues do you have with it other than the timeframe, Pat?
Beathan Vale: why should he talk to us when he can move ahead ASAP with support elsewhere
Beathan Vale: talk is cheap — we need, at a minimum, some showing of good faith commitment
Mizou Vavoom: he did say he was gong to go ahead with it anyway whether we give him popoortunity or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Beathan, right now, he’s doing it with us first for sentimental/emotional reasons
Beathan Vale: an interim funded commitment of 2 months at least
Mizou Vavoom: so if we dont he will go lsewhre was my impression

Patroklus Murakami: there has been virtually no discussion of the structure proposed for the institution. none of the relationship between teh RA and the VPR, no real understanding of what it means.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not quoting him exactly, but he had seen a lot of groups and communities around in SL, and this one is the one he empathises *more*.
Mizou Vavoom: true gwyn
Beathan Vale: it would be a shame to love that empathy in the chatter
Beathan Vale: lose I mean
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, well, that’s the opportunity cost here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, we have up our sleeves a “Drax replacement” in say a year, when all issues have been thoroughly worked out …
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to call a vote on my counter proposal – open negotiations with Drax on the basis of the amended bill and come back to the next RA with a proper draft agreed between both parties
Claude Desmoulins: Beathan has called the question on the bill.
Claude Desmoulins looks for a parlimentarian
Gwyneth Llewelyn likes Pat’s approach 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: no, he hasn’t
Claude Desmoulins: Cna Pat amend at this point?
Beathan Vale: Claude — actually I haven’t
Claude Desmoulins: Ok you haven’t
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Beathan Vale: I merely said I would support a call of the question if someone did it
Beathan Vale: I didn’t call it
Patroklus Murakami: indeed 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Pat has an amendment on the floor to negotiate with Drax.
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the goal of this negotiation?
Beathan Vale: I would support that on condition of an interim commitment
Beathan Vale: I would move to amend the amendment to provide an interim commitment
Patroklus Murakami: to agree a bill establishing VPR in the CDS on terms acceptable to the RA
Beathan Vale: and I would donae seed money of 25000 lindens to fund that commitment
Claude Desmoulins: Pat we can get what you want by tabling either to the forums or to tthe first meeting in June
Claude Desmoulins: Present the bill in its present state to Drax as a negotiating position
Patroklus Murakami: not really claude. we need to commit to a negotiation with an end point in sight
Beathan Vale: but I cannot support the “negotiate/don’t act” position without some action of good faith
Claude Desmoulins: How do we define the end point, then?
Patroklus Murakami: gah! the end point is the drafting of a bill that will work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry… I was looking at the forums,
Claude Desmoulins: Give me a dealine, othewise we’ll be negotiating until December.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: apparently Drax has already made an informal decision, based on the time the debate is taking…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather, that already took.
Patroklus Murakami: the next RA meeting
Claude Desmoulins: That’s June 3
Patroklus Murakami: that’s the deadline
Claude Desmoulins: Has Drax already gone elsewhere?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Justice Soothsayer: I thought he was still advocating for this as recently as yesterday.
Mizou Vavoom: he was

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t say, lol ? he didn’t give me permission to quote him directly ? but he said as much on the forums, let me just take a look at the exact post…
Patroklus Murakami: he was. at the citizenship commission
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to table to forums so if we come to an agreement before then we can pass it.
Claude Desmoulins: with Drax that is.
Patroklus Murakami: he hasnt’ taken his idea elsewhere
Mizou Vavoom: but he would do if w werent quick enough
Mizou Vavoom: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: who are we authorising to negotiate with Drax?
Gwyneth Llewelyn can only recommend the RA to act swiftly and with a strong commitment, anything beyond that would be violating Drax’s trust 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: swiftly means, in this context, “in the next few hours” 😉
Claude Desmoulins: If we can reach an agreement, I don’t want to keep VPR waiting until Jun 3 for us to have a meeting.
Beathan Vale: I move to amend the amendment to provide 2 months interim funding pending negotiation to be funded by donation from me of $27000 lindens
Gwyneth Llewelyn will add L$12000 to that gladly
Patroklus Murakami: taken as friendlies
Claude Desmoulins: Can ve vote on Pat’s amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: aye (to the vote and to my proposal)
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor of Pat’s amendment
Beathan Vale: call q on proposal as amended
Beathan Vale: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Mizou Vavoom: aye
Claude Desmoulins: now onto the bill as amended.
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Mizou Vavoom: aye
Michel Manen: here
Claude Desmoulins: We are way late.
Michel Manen: mmetings upstairs
Rose Springvale: think they are adjourning
Patroklus Murakami: claude, will u be contacting drax?
Michel Manen: great
Beathan Vale: OK — I will pay Sudane so that the commitment comes through the CDS
Michel Manen: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Pat will you explain to Drax where we are?
Michel Manen: they poasaed the radio bill?
Claude Desmoulins: Or per haps to Michel
Beathan Vale: MM passed with amendments
Rose Springvale: 🙂
Michel Manen: cool ill be intersted to read
Patroklus Murakami: yes claude, i will. but who is going to negotiate on behalf of the RA?
Rose Springvale: i’m still lost lol
Claude Desmoulins: Beathan and Mizou, could you please post commission reports to the forums?
Mizou Vavoom: yes will do
Mizou Vavoom: by tiomor
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone want the negotiator job, PAt, perhaps?
Beathan Vale: yes
Beathan Vale: I think Pat is best
Patroklus Murakami was not volunteering…
Beathan Vale: lol
Sudane Erato: i’ll be happy to assist however is useful
Patroklus Murakami: but, if u insist ….
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I thik we do 🙂
Beathan Vale: move to insist
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: haha
Justice Soothsayer: heh
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll table referenda to the 3rd.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned.
The meeting closed at 13:09 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 03, 2007

Transcript needed.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 10, 2007

Agenda:

Reports

. . . notecard: Mizou resigns from the RA 3 June 2007
. . . Code Commission – Beathan
. . . Citizenship Commission – Mizou
. . . notecard: Citizens Commission meeting 19 May 2007

PCA: Referenda (Desmoulins)
PCA: Electoral Reform (Murakami)
Citizen Registration Bill (Murakami)
RA Size Bill (Murakami)

Present: Claude Desmoulins (chair), Beathan Vale, Patroklus Murakami
Absent: Justice Soothsayer, Mizou Vavoom
Others present: TOPGenosse Brouwer, Bromo Ivory (half way)

time 12:07 SLT
Claude Desmoulins: Well let us begin.
Claude Desmoulins: First as you can read , Mizou has resigned. Gwyn is working, I believe on geting a CARE faction ranking together to fill the seat.
Patroklus Murakami: i was sorry to hear that, but i understand mizou’s reasons totally
Beathan Vale: me too
Patroklus Murakami: let’s hope they can field a replacement
Claude Desmoulins: There is a transcript of the citizenship commission attached.
Claude Desmoulins: Beathan, anything new on code reorganization?
Beathan Vale: I am working on it
Beathan Vale: should send it out to the committee next week
Beathan Vale: currently working on organization by subject — for ease of reference
You: Beathan, can you send me a copy of what you have so far?
Patroklus Murakami: excellent, good to see progress on that
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Beathan Vale: TOP — it’s at work — but, yes, tomorrow — email me so I remember
You: Cool, I will, thanks.
Claude Desmoulins: just a moment please.
notetaker 2.0.1: Couldn’t find notecard address
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry figured out why the recorder isn t woking
Claude Desmoulins: Please keep logging
Patroklus Murakami: will do 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Since both the matters on the agenda require majorities we do not have…
Claude Desmoulins: …I move that we refer what we discuss here to the forums.
Patroklus Murakami: do they? are we not quorate?
Patroklus Murakami: aah, we need 4/5
Claude Desmoulins: But a constitutional change requires four votes.
You: Could at least discuss them
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. not sure about that claude
Claude Desmoulins: It has come up before..
Patroklus Murakami: is it not 2/3 of the RA as opposed to 2/3 of the potential members?
Patroklus Murakami: what was the outcome before?
Claude Desmoulins: That vote rquirements have been interpreted bythe SC to be of the total number of seats,.
Claude Desmoulins: Though the vacancy of the CARE seat makes things more complex.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway.
Patroklus Murakami: even when seats are vacant?
Claude Desmoulins: Lets start with referenda.
Patroklus Murakami: just one question first
Beathan Vale: I think the referenda proposal has two problems
Patroklus Murakami: What do we do about the citizenship commission now that Mizou is no longer available to lead it?
Claude Desmoulins: Since I wrote it, how about someone else chime in. 🙂
Beathan Vale: First, it creates a limited and specific referendum system, without a backdrop of a more general procedure
Beathan Vale: I think we should pass legislation on intitiatives and referenda generally before passing the power piecemeal
Beathan Vale: second, it provides additional and I think unnecessary burdens on Constituional reform — this would tend to freeze the current Constitution, which I think is unwise at our stage in development
Patroklus Murakami agrees with Beathan on this
Claude Desmoulins: Others have argued that the constitution is too easy to change 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a very conservative idea. it will tend to ossify the Constitution in its current form
Claude Desmoulins: At the moment, the system could be radically altered withthe consent of five citizens, maybe four.
Patroklus Murakami: and we have the Commissions, which allow for a much more sophisticated form of citizen involvement
Patroklus Murakami: but those citizens are *elected* Claude. it’s not just anybody 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Patroklus Murakami: and we haven’t had any constitutional amends in *ages*! It’s not like we are changing things left right and centre right now
Beathan Vale: I would propose that, if we want to limit ease of change ot the Constitution, that we implement a general intiative process (along with a referendum process) — but then allow Constitutional amendment only by iniative — Constitution creation by direct democracy
Beathan Vale: Referenda are clunky — require a multiplicity of institutions to act
Claude Desmoulins: If we were to do that, the RA would have little reason to exist, now?
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, we already have that. citizens already have the power of initiative, what would your proposal add?
Beathan Vale: but — I’m not sure the process is broken at the moment
Claude Desmoulins: *no
Beathan Vale: Pat — clarify the link and provided procedures for Constitutional amendment
Beathan Vale: but — again — I don’t know that it is necessary or desirable to change the rules atm
Patroklus Murakami: i think we’re probably mostly in agreement beathan, i see no need to make major changes in our procedures right now. i think the commission work well. we must discuss teh citizenship commission at soem point today, it woudl be a shame for that to die for lack of attention by the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Do you want to insert that ahead of the electoral reform bill?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Beathan Vale: if our population increases to unmanageable size — we will need to make changes — so it makes good sense to map out a plan — but not necessarily to implement it
Claude Desmoulins: Lets start with the CC vacancy.
Patroklus Murakami: the first meeting went very well, the transcrip shows the quality of the debate
Claude Desmoulins: Does anyone here want to run with this ball?
Patroklus Murakami: *transcript
Claude Desmoulins: We do need a new chair.
Beathan Vale: I think that parts of Pat’s proposal need to be discussed in the CC
Patroklus Murakami: there is a linkage between those issues, it’s true
Patroklus Murakami: but i think u cd do 1) electoral reform 2) citizenship or vice versa
Patroklus Murakami: they are inter-related but one does not have to wait for the other
Beathan Vale: true — but a link between sim and residence seems like a citizenship issue
Claude Desmoulins: Whats the deadline for the CC report, btw?
Claude Desmoulins: Whats the deadline for the CC report, btw?
You: CC is something that needs to be discussed/conducted “in the background” anyway
Beathan Vale: brb
Patroklus Murakami: i drafted teh electoral reform proposal on the basis of our current situation, without making any assumptions about the outcome of the CC
Patroklus Murakami looks for timeline on the CC…
You: “The Commission will hold a full and participative set of discussions inworld and on the CDS forums starting on 20 May and finishing on 17 June 2007. ”
Patroklus Murakami: ty TOP 🙂
You: Mizou has been ill for two weekends at least
Claude Desmoulins: That is Fathers day in the US
Claude Desmoulins: The chair needs to be an RA member
Patroklus Murakami: and elsewhere (including the UK)
Claude Desmoulins: Good afternoon, Bromo
Patroklus Murakami: hi Bromo
You: Hi Bromo
Bromo Ivory: Hello
You: Aren’t you a citizen-member of that commission?
Bromo Ivory: I went to 1 meeting on it – but I was not aware if anything had been worthy of recommending
Claude Desmoulins: Justice is airborne again this week, we could always draft him 🙂
Bromo Ivory accepted your inventory offer.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we send this to forums so as to have some time to discuss electoral reform.
Patroklus Murakami: cruel, but fair 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Beathan Vale: second
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Patroklus Murakami: no, that’s fine
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to electoral reform.
Patroklus Murakami: shall i introduce?
Claude Desmoulins: Have we read it? If so we could jump straight to discussion.
Patroklus Murakami: I realise this is quite a lot to take in at once. so i’d like to start by describing the general principle rather than the detail
Beathan Vale: I am still coming to grips with the implications and details of the proposal — and am consulting with members of my Party — so I am not yet prepared to discuss or take a position on the proposal as presented
Patroklus Murakami: this proposal gives everyone the same rights that faction members currently have – the right to choose between the candidates standing for the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Like the two of you on referenda, I think this seeks to fix something that is not broken.
Claude Desmoulins: It would laso gut the factions, making them nought more than labels.
Beathan Vale: breaking my own rule — I will say I that I agree with Pat on this one
Patroklus Murakami: it also solves the ‘local v. national’ problem. all RA members would be local reps in a national legislature
Beathan Vale: we do have a problem with disenfranchising folks who have heartburn about all the various parties — but who may not have similar qualms about candidates
Claude Desmoulins: I am interested in using STV with factions.
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t agree claude. the factions will still be vital to our system
Claude Desmoulins: Or a mixed system, which the CSDF proposed at one point.
Claude Desmoulins: Why?
Claude Desmoulins: will they still be vital, that is?
Patroklus Murakami: all candidates must still be members of factions. but the key difference is that everyone gets to choose between them. that is surely more democratic than at present
Beathan Vale: Yes — succession by faction does not change, the power of association doe snot change
Bromo Ivory: Party lists vs. individual candidates. The role of parties is quite different.
Beathan Vale: what would change is that we would be more open to full participations by citizens like Dianne — who have heartburn about the association and are willing to forgo the benefits of faction membership\
You: Only faction members can make policy, so allowing *everyone* to rank candidates won’t gut factions.
Patroklus Murakami: i will concede that it weakens the factions vis a vis the voters, but is that a bad thing?
Bromo Ivory: I do not think so.
Bromo Ivory: It will make the people closer to the RA
Claude Desmoulins: I worrry about personality driven elections.
Bromo Ivory: WHy is that an issue?
Patroklus Murakami: it means more choice for the electorate. there is a risk that get u get more personality politiics’ but we have that already 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Or what about having some at large seats under the present system and some seats in constituency.
Claude Desmoulins: Id even be willing to let the constituency seats be detached from factions,
Patroklus Murakami: well claude, that wd be up for discussion. i’m open to exploring other ideas around the central theme
Bromo Ivory: Succession becomes a bigger issue – in the case of CARE
Beathan Vale: I tend to favor direct election of persons — succession by faction
Claude Desmoulins: PAt, also the RA size bill as written would caus the RA to shrink each time we cross one of the population threshholds.
Claude Desmoulins: But then you still have people like Diane excluded
Patroklus Murakami: claude, yes it would. we would go from about 40 to about 20 each time a threshold was crossed. is that a problem though?
Claude Desmoulins: I think so.
Claude Desmoulins: Whats the advantage of that over letting the RA plateau at 40 as is now the rule.
Beathan Vale: We need to keep a lid on RA size in the face of growth
You: The way I read the RA Size Bill, this will cause the RA to have 50 – 100 representatives .. when the population is 2000 – 4000 …. 50 – 100 reps is a LOT.
Patroklus Murakami: again, nothing is set in stone. provided the principles are respected, we can discuss the finer points
Claude Desmoulins: 40 ws also picked as the most avs you could reaonabley pack into a sim.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not teh way i drafted it TOP!
Beathan Vale: If we don’t want shrinkage at thresholds, we need ot get rid of thresholds — but use some formula to require ever greater populaiton increase before adding a seat
Claude Desmoulins: I dont read it that way either TOP
Claude Desmoulins: Pragmatic limits (mostly avs per sim) create a hardupper limit onthe size of an inworld meeting.
You: Pat .. so you say have 40 reps max? Then what happens if we have 41 sims? Does that mean 1 sim does NOT get represented?
Claude Desmoulins: 10% of 390 is 39
Claude Desmoulins: 5% of 401 is 20
You: You can’t have a lower representation than 1 rep per sim ..
Claude Desmoulins: Is each constituency in your proposal guaranteed at least one seat, Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: sims are only represented if they have enough citizens there. the limit is about ten at present
You: So if I have a franchulate with 9 people, they don’t get represented at all??
Claude Desmoulins: So a low population sim couled have citizens with no rep in your system.
Bromo Ivory: This is where you get teh split in the manner of the US
You: That should be remedied 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Beathan?
Patroklus Murakami: the situation TOP envisages, with 41 sims or more, would need another law as teh population would be over 8000
Claude Desmoulins: Not necessarily.
You: How many citizens per sim Pat?
Claude Desmoulins: That presumes that most future sims will have population densities comparable to the present ones.
You: Pat I don’t think so … 40 sims of 40 people = 1600 people … or less
Bromo Ivory: What hapopend when a SIM wants to join us and the population is not the same
Patroklus Murakami: well, if u insist one at least one rep per sim/franch regardless of population size, u get some weird effects. lots of small places with few citizens get over-represented
You: 1600 citizens = 2 % of the sim will be reps .. 2 % of 40 people = 0.8 = 1
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, for a faction that ran on a one republic plank, this is further down the confederation road than I ever imagined in my wildest dreams 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: You round down top
Claude Desmoulins: 0.8=0
You: 0.8 rounded down = 0 = no reps?
You: do we want that?? 😀
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Bromo Ivory: Feels like disenfranchisement
You: I’ll have to join care, if the RA wants to throw away votes! 😀
Patroklus Murakami: again, that’s up for discussion. let’s play with some numbers and scenarios and see what comes out
Beathan Vale: I would rather have a progression like 5 for 200-; 7 for 201-500; 9 for 501 – 900; 11 for 901 – 1400, etc
You: too-small constituencies can be lumped together
Beathan Vale: we hit 39 at a population of 18900 — I think
Claude Desmoulins: Some at large seats would solve this as well.
Patroklus Murakami: remember, everyone can choose where they register if they have land in more than one sim. so no one need be disenfranchised
Claude Desmoulins: even if a given constituency was too small youd be represented by an atlarge rep.
You: So if I live in Pel’s small (future) franchulate, I’ll have to buy land here — especially not to get disenfranchised?
Patroklus Murakami: claude’s idea is worht considering
Beathan Vale: I agree
Claude Desmoulins: Ill put up a counter proposal some time in the next few days.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else ere we adjourn?
Patroklus Murakami: another idea would be to treat the whole CDS (sims plus franchulates) as one big constituency. very ‘republican’ but it doesn’t solve the ‘local v national’ problem 🙂
Bromo Ivory: I would be Ok with that
You: Pat > that would only ADD the ranking of persons?
Beathan Vale: we want to be careful of having single citizen franchulates — where a person could essentially buy a seat on the RA
Patroklus Murakami: happy to adjourn. i smell supper 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Good point
Bromo Ivory: “Rotton boroughs”
Beathan Vale: but generally, i support local representation on a 1 seat per sim basis
Claude Desmoulins: The next meeting is the 24th of June in the Praetorium at Noon SLT
Beathan Vale: if the sim has a minimum population size
Beathan Vale: but I think that the numbe of seats can be dealt with as its own issue — and then we can divide the seats by category afterward
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned until then.
Beathan Vale: kk
You: too-small constituencies could be lumped together with a sim
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks all.
Patroklus Murakami: bye all
time 13:01 SLT

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 24, 2007

Transcript Needed.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: July 08, 2007

Sudane Erato: we’ll have to draft your for soome NGO chairmanship 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: I hope I’ve embarrassed you enought now!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Bromo Ivory: The Claude Foundation
Jamie Palisades: Fair government is hard work. Thank you, Claude, for both.
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Beathan Vale: How about some tradition honorary post — like Ambassodor to Caledon — 😉
Sudane Erato: haha.. 🙂
Bromo Ivory: LOL
Jamie Palisades: Doe sit come with weaponry? Or at least an armored vest?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Bromo Ivory: Asbestos underpants
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: Ambassador to Port Neualtenburg (if we’re feeling evil :))
Sudane Erato: ahhh 🙂
Bromo Ivory: Oh the “Tony Blair” plan
Beathan Vale: I have someone else in mind for that 😉
Sudane Erato: well… ty all… I must go 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye now
Jamie Palisades: 🙂
Beathan Vale: bye Sudane
Bromo Ivory: Bye
Patroklus Murakami: bye sudane
Patroklus Murakami wonders how much of thaat claude saw….
Bromo Ivory wonders as well
Jamie Palisades: well Pat, since you are adjourned: thank you to the rest of you for your service as well
Bromo Ivory: I will have to be going as well – and I have very much enjoyes the sessions I have attended!
Patroklus Murakami: thank you jamie, that’s very kind 🙂 I hope claude will be back soon to read the fulsome , if badly-typed, praise 🙂
Jamie Palisades: 🙂
Bromo Ivory: LOL
Jamie Palisades: Good day all
Bromo Ivory: Good bye guys!
Patroklus Murakami: bye jamie, bromo
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks all.
Claude Desmoulins: Must go
The meeting closed at 12:38 Linden time.

Permalink.

7th Representative Assembly (17)

RA Meeting: August 05, 2007

Patroklus Murakami: Please touch the recorder to indicate consent to
be recorded
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: jk
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
TOPGenosse Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi zips her lip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just another second… the asset server is waaay slow
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Dnate Mars: lol moon
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: sorry dnate
Patroklus Murakami: ty gwyn
Moon Adamant: soem kind of problem with teh sit targets on these chairs
Moon Adamant: but i think it’s lag
Flyingroc Chung: if it’s like this all the time
Sudane Erato: brown chairs are copyavle and moveable
Flyingroc Chung: we need a bigger rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Brian, Brian… where are you, Brian? 🙂
Dnate Mars: not here 🙁
Sudane Erato: Brian is away
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah … sorry, I feel shortsighted 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Bromo couldn’t make it either, right?
Patroklus Murakami: that\s right gwyn
Michel Manen: hes on holiday
TOPGenosse Lundquist: too bad.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lucky him!!!
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I welcome you all to the official ceremony of
the opening of the seventh term of the RA of the CDS 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all for coming,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you even more for *voting* these guys in 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, of course ?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: my deep thanks to the RA members that are willing
to serve on the next term.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now if I remember this ceremony correctly,
Beathan Vale: I swear — so help me Ford
Beathan Vale: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll hear the affirmation of each member of the RA
for their willingness to serve and uphold the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (pfft Beathan)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and after that,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: traditionally the LRA (Pat this time) should make a
short speech 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So let’s get that in the order stated on the NFS
web site… Pat first
Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a
Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of
Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully
discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will
bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rise, dear Pat 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next would be Jon…
Jon Seattle: I, Jon Seattle, having been elected as a Member of the
Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators,
Jon Seattle: do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my
duties as such to the best of my ability,
Jon Seattle: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the
Confederation of Democratic Simulators,
Jon Seattle: and that I will preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the CDS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: next will be Leon, since Moon resigned from the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we need to fix that page btw)
Leon Ash: I, Leon Ash, having been elected as a Member of the
Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully
discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will
bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks :))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan next, please 🙂
Beathan Vale: I, Beathan Vale, having been elected as a Member of the
Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully
discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will
bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So mote
it be.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Princess, you’re the last one today 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess? …
Gwyneth Llewelyn nudges Princess 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: wait asec..
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha no problem!
ThePrincess? Parisi: so laggy
ThePrincess? Parisi: i cant do it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed…
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Beathan Vale: our first Constitutional crisis — and in record time
— lol
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Sudane Erato: hehe
ThePrincess? Parisi: I, theprincess parisi aving been elected as a
Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of
Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will
faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,
that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of
Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend
the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Beathan Vale: yay!
ThePrincess? Parisi: how is htat
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
TOPGenosse Lundquist: /claps
Justice Soothsayer: huzzah!
Moon Adamant applauds
TOPGenosse Lundquist: congratulations everyone!
Jon Seattle claps
Beathan Vale: Woot! (yay was taken)
TOPGenosse Lundquist: what have we done, is there a way back?
Jon Seattle: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol TOP!
Patroklus Murakami stands for th next bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well thank you all… it’s not time for Pat 😉
Beathan Vale: not time for PAt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *now sorry
Beathan Vale: OK then — moving on — lol
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Michel Manen: smiles
Patroklus Murakami: Good afternoon everybody.
Patroklus Murakami: Before I turn to the ‘State of the CDS’ address,
I’d like to say a few words about Claude Desmoulins, the outgoing
Leader of the Representative Assembly who, unfortunately, cannot be
with us here today
Patroklus Murakami: I think we owe a debt of gratitude to Claude for
his calm, clear-headed leadership of the RA during the last three terms.
Beathan Vale: hear hear
Sudane Erato: hear hear
Moon Adamant: cheers!
Patroklus Murakami: There were many challenges during Claude’s term
of office – the ‘U-quake’ which destroyed much of the city, the
divisions evident in the judiciary debate.
Pelanor Eldrich: Viva DPU
Patroklus Murakami: There were also significant achievements – the
doubling of our territory with the opening of Colonia Nova and the
expansion in population that this enabled.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: Also, the renovation of our constitutional setup
with the establishment of the Chancelry as the Executive Branch and
the New Guild.
Patroklus Murakami: The CDS has been transformed; Claude has been a
positive, unifying force throughout.
Patroklus Murakami: Six months ago, in his address, Claude asked
‘Where are we?’ Today I’d like to consider the question ‘What are
we?’ What is the CDS?
Patroklus Murakami: Interestingly, it’s a question we’ve never fully
answered. We have yet to define what the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators is in our Constitution though we refer to it continually.
Today, I’d like to offer a few thoughts on what the CDS is and what
it is for.
Patroklus Murakami: On the face of it, the answer is quite clear.
It’s the 76 or so Second Life residents who have chosen to make their
home here.
Patroklus Murakami: It’s the sims ‘Neufreistadt’ and ‘Colonia Nova’;
two specks in the ever-expanding virtual world we inhabit.
Patroklus Murakami: It’s the institutions we have designed to govern
ourselves – the Representative Assembly, the Scientific Council, the
Chancelry and the civil service positions that service them and the
community at large.
Patroklus Murakami: But the CDS is a lot more than that. It’s a model
of democratic, self-government in Second Life – perhaps the only one.
Certainly the most long-lasting, it will be our third anniversary
before long.
Patroklus Murakami: That, in itself, is an achievement that has
proved a majority of commentators wrong.
Patroklus Murakami: Proving that a group of people from different
corners of the real world can come together in a virtual world and
find democratic means to govern themselves, and continue to do so
over several years, is a powerful refutation of the idea that
democracy is somehow “deficient”, “inferior”, “not worth the effort”
or that “It will never work”. (I love that one, people still say it!)
Patroklus Murakami: But we’ve done that now, so what’s next?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: The CDS needs to turn outwards and inwards at the
same time (and not tie itself up in knots while doing so!)
Patroklus Murakami: We need to turn outwards to spread the message
that democracy works and that a democratic foundation for virtual
world projects promotes continuity and involvement.
Patroklus Murakami: It’s not a formula for avoiding drama, we have
plenty of that! But so does every group of humans engaged in a joint
activity. Democracy, at the very least, provides a tried-and-trusted
mechanism for resolving conflicts, taking decisions and involving
everybody.
Patroklus Murakami: People don’t have to join us, though that would
be nice! But we should see the establishment of other democratic,
self-governing communities in Second Life as a development that we
can nurture.
Patroklus Murakami: We need to turn inwards as well though to bring
the vitality back to our public spaces. We have many creative
citizens involved in all sorts of SL projects across the grid, let’s
bring some of that creativity to bear in our own little corner of the
world. Many of us will soon be engaged in planning and building our
third, yet-to-be-named sim. That too will require a significant effort.
Patroklus Murakami: This process of turning outward and inward
simultaneously is really the same phenomenon expressed in two
different ways. It is the expression of the confidence we have as a
mature, thriving democratic community and the challenges we are ready
to face in this next phase of our development.
Patroklus Murakami: These are challenges I feel we can all unite
around. Let’s make this a significant six months in the CDS and
continue to transform ourselves and the world around us.
Patroklus Murakami: Thank you for listening.
Moon Adamant applauds!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Pat 🙂
Leon Ash claps
Jon Seattle: Yay!
TOPGenosse Lundquist: /claps
TOPGenosse Lundquist: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: Now then, first order of business.
Patroklus Murakami: I’d like to reserve an hour for the election of
our next Chancellor.
Patroklus Murakami: so i aim to work on the bills submitted until
around 1pm
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not long 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: but i think we can agree some very quickly and
have time to listen to the candidates propperly
Patroklus Murakami: (sorry lagging badly)
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees
Patroklus Murakami: okay, next item is teh citizenship commission bill
Patroklus Murakami realises he hasn’t put up another RA member to
introduce this…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: this isa piece of work left over from the last
RA. it has had some support and discussion on the cds forums
Patroklus Murakami: i would liek to propose bromo ivory as teh chair
of teh commission
Patroklus Murakami: is the RA ready to vote on this? (all votes will
be 7-day to allow bromo and brian to participate)
Dnate Mars: but since he can’t agree to it, won’t the bill have to be
tabled a week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: bromo has indicated he would be willing to chair it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessarily, Dnate, the RA has a quorum…
Beathan Vale: I withdraw my proposed amendment to this bill
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: all in favour of taking teh vote now? beathan?
Dnate Mars: but with a deadline of Aug 13, and the vote not ending
until Aug 12, doesn’t that cut it a little short?
Beathan Vale: aye
Jon Seattle: Yes
Patroklus Murakami: leon?
Leon Ash: Yes
Patroklus Murakami: princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: its The
Patroklus Murakami: and i vote aye too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: all in favour of teh bill. same order
Jon Seattle: Aye (out of order)
Patroklus Murakami: beathan?
Beathan Vale: aye on renewal of citizenship commission
Patroklus Murakami: leon? princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Leon Ash: Aye
Beathan Vale: but I think that we should not draft an RA mmber who is
not here to chair
Patroklus Murakami votes aye too. so that is passed
Beathan Vale: let’s appoint the chair when all can chime in — but we
can start getting members now
Leon Ash: Agreed Breathan
Jon Seattle: Beathan, Bromo already spoke with us about this and agreed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw who will be the RA Archivist?… I’m assuming
that Claude is not available for continuing on that role…)
Patroklus Murakami: i proposed bromo as the chair when i introduced
the bill
Patroklus Murakami: so that has passed, i’m afraid
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m formally the RA Archivist, but I serve at the
will of the LRA
Beathan Vale: OK — tha’s fine
Pelanor Eldrich: (like Donald Rumsfeld)
Michel Manen: hi Gelf so nice you could join us!
Moon Adamant: lol
Patroklus Murakami: next item. government question hour bill
TOPGenosse Lundquist: Hi Gelf
Gelf Yalin: hello
Patroklus Murakami: it’s self-explanatory
Jo Sapeur: hi Gelf!
Beathan Vale: aye
Moon Adamant: hi Gelf
Patroklus Murakami: does any RA member wish to raise an objection?
otherwise we’ll move to the vote
Beathan Vale: I would like to see a change
Jo Sapeur: grab a poseball next to me, Gelf

Beathan Vale: I don’t like theferring the the “EXective”
Beathan Vale: I would rather see the “Chancellor” to prevent
delegation to a civil servant
Patroklus Murakami: what’s wrong with delegation? do u mean the
organising? or attendance?
Dnate Mars: but the chancellor should be able to appoint someone to
speak on behalf
Beathan Vale: I man on the duty itself
Beathan Vale: right now it imposes a duty on “the executive”– but
there might be subparts of the executive
Beathan Vale: to be clea that the duty is on the entire executive, we
shold say “Chancellor”
Patroklus Murakami: so change teh bit in brackets in part 1 to read
“Chancellor, Legislative and Philosophical…”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I like clarifications 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: wouldnt it make sense for the chancellor to allow,
say the PIO to do the question hour?
Dnate Mars: not every member of the RA needs to be there, not all of
the SC needs to be there, why does the Chancellor him or herself need
to be there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or delegate?…
Beathan Vale: no — I would say that “The Chancellor is charge” – but
leave the brackets the same
TOPGenosse Lundquist: Dnate is right
Gelf Yalin has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: So instead of starting each sentence with”The Executive
Branch it starts “The Chancellor”
Beathan Vale: Then the Chancellor does not ned to attend — but the
Chancellor must make sure it happens
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, that would only change the organiser not
the attendance
Beathan Vale: I don’t oppose delegating the attendance — ontly the
duty to arange it
Patroklus Murakami: do other RA members wish to comment?
Dnate Mars: The chancellor is in charge of the executive branch, does
it really need to be changed?
Michel Manen: hi hugo thaks for coming by 🙂
Beathan Vale: yes — because if we are requiwing that a task be
performed, we shoudl specify who (which person) shoudl perform it
Jon Seattle: I do wonder if this will make any difference.
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t see teh problem with delegating an
organisational task
TOPGenosse Lundquist nods
Beathan Vale: I don’t have problem with that eitgher — but I want
the ultimate duty to orgnize to be a defined person
Beathan Vale: how that person does it — by delegation or otherwise
— is less important
Beathan Vale: but here has to e someone ultimately responsible
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i’ll take it as afriendly then. let’s move to
the vote
Michel Manen: the bucks stops there 😉 smiles
Pelanor Eldrich: FRC, in the US the press secretary (Tony Snow)
answers the hard question for the President. I’d much prefer the
Parlimentary system, where for example, Tony Blair is *personally*
present and on the hotseat for tough probing questions.
Moon Adamant: but Beathan, even if a civil servant, ex – teh PI –
does organis eteh schedule, the Chancellor approves it
Moon Adamant: PIO*
Patroklus Murakami: let’s vote once more in the same order. beathan?
Beathan Vale: As amended, aye
Dnate Mars: if there is a failure, the chancellor is at fault. It is
his job to run teh exectuive branch
Gwyneth Llewelyn fears the day that Beathan joins the ranks of the SC 😉
Beathan Vale: lol
Patroklus Murakami: jon?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: leon?
Leon Ash: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye too. the amended bill passes
Patroklus Murakami: quickly, let’s try to clear teh events bill. i
hve one amendment to make
TOPGenosse Lundquist: /claps 🙂 very good, practical stuff ty reps
Patroklus Murakami: givne the debate about whther ministers shoudl be
in the legislative or exec branches, i withdraw the second paragraph
which makes reference to a minister of culture
Beathan Vale: I don’t like the idea of a legislative organization
running an appropriated budget — that is the issue more than the
tile, as Fernando pointed out
Beathan Vale: title
Patroklus Murakami: that issue clearly needs more thought and we do
not want to hold up the events promotion fund unnecessarily
Beathan Vale: for now, can we appropriate it to the Chancellor?
Emiliano Fouroux: rl calls.
Patroklus Murakami: are there any remanining objectionsnow that the
bill has been amendedde
Michel Manen: thank you for coming Emiliano
Patroklus Murakami: if not, we can move to the vote
Pelanor Eldrich: I would say that traditionally the legislative
branch had a very fixed structure (members and LRA). The Exec and
civil service was designed to add/delete/change positions and
structure given the requirements of the day.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, let’s vote. beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: Script run-time error
ThePrincess? Parisi: Stack-Heap? Collision
Beathan Vale: nay
Patroklus Murakami: jon?
Jon Seattle: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: leon?
Leon Ash: Aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty. that bill passes also
TOPGenosse Lundquist: Thank you Princess 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: well done! we’ve passed more bills in our first
meetin than we managed all last term
Sudane Erato: tsk!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray to our energetic new RA 🙂
TOPGenosse Lundquist: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: that’s not necessarily a goo dthing, Pat/
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we table the next two bills until next
meeeting and move to teh Chancellor election (apologies for the
slight on the last RA , not intended )
Leon Ash second that motion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahah
Jon Seattle: agrees
Patroklus Murakami: beathan? princess? is that ok with you too?
Pelanor Eldrich: No offence taken Pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: wait
Beathan Vale: aye
Sudane Erato: oh well
Patroklus Murakami: princess?
Beathan Vale: lost her
Sudane Erato: she left
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Beathan Vale: let’s wait a bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Princess
Patroklus Murakami: oh dear
Patroklus Murakami: yes, let’s give her a minute or two
Leon Ash: In that case, brb 🙂
Sudane Erato: btw… its “ThePrincess”
Beathan Vale: she was on the verge, I think of objecting to tabling
the CARE bills after passing the CSDF bills
Michel Manen: i doubt it Bromo is not here and im sure hes want to
participate in person
Jon Seattle nods
Beathan Vale: ok
Dnate Mars: I can see the CARE bills also needing more time to be
discussed than what we have
Beathan Vale: I agree
Patroklus Murakami: i think both of these bills need a bit more
discussion. we have very little time today
Patroklus Murakami: and i want to do teh chancellor election justice
Leon Ash: I’m back
TOPGenosse Lundquist: wb
Justice Soothsayer: No, I am NOT a candidate, lol.
Dnate Mars: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
TOPGenosse Lundquist: heheh
Beathan Vale: draft Justice
Moon Adamant: 😀
Michel Manen: should we not wait until all 7 RA members can actually
be present?
Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering about Pat’s sentence 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: You wouldn’t do it Justice
Patroklus Murakami: hehe. sorry justice
Patroklus Murakami: no michel. we cannot. i doubt all 7 will be here
next week either
Justice Soothsayer: LRA discovers verbal landmines are strewn
throughout the building
Dnate Mars: It sounds like that there is an effort to make sure all 7
vote, right?
Patroklus Murakami: yes dnate. all 7 will vote
Pelanor Eldrich: Why not make it a 7 day?
Beathan Vale: The procecedure for that is to priovide for a week to
allow ofr full voting
Jon Seattle: Dante, yes the seven day procedure gives everyone a
chance to vote.
Flyingroc Chung: isnt that the plan?
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Beathan Vale: I support 7 day vote
Patroklus Murakami: yes FR, it is
Jon Seattle: Pel, we are going seven day.
Dnate Mars: unless one person gets 4 votes today, then it is mute
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we move on and hope princess is able to
join us soon
Pelanor Eldrich: (moot)
Beathan Vale: both mute and moot — voice no enabled
Pelanor Eldrich: very punny
Dnate Mars: but the question comes up, what happens if in 7 days no
one gets 4 votes?
Patroklus Murakami: I suggest we give each candidate five minutes to
tell us why they should be elected chancellor. in order dnate,
michel, moon.
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices many more puns about voice 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: then we can take questions from RA members and
CDS citizens.
Jon Seattle: Dnate, I guess we find out then.
Patroklus Murakami: then we will take the vote here and complete the
vote over the next 7 days
Moon Adamant: The Princess is back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, welcome back, Princess!
Dnate Mars: WB ThePrincess?
TOPGenosse Lundquist: wb ThePrincess?
Moon Adamant: wb 🙂
Jon Seattle: wb Princess
Patroklus Murakami: if there is no clear winner at the end of the
voting, we return to this issue at our next meeting
Jo Sapeur: wb Your Highness! 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: wow i will go more often
Leon Ash: wb ThePrincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: do mind jos manners.. that is correct
Moon Adamant: lol
Patroklus Murakami: wb princess. what were you going to say? we’re
about to move to teh chancellor election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
ThePrincess? Parisi: good
ThePrincess? Parisi: hurry up
Patroklus Murakami: ok. that’s me told!
ThePrincess? Parisi: it is
ThePrincess? Parisi: dont make me get a stick
Pelanor Eldrich: lol
Patroklus Murakami: dnate, the floor is yours. you have five minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn passes Dnate a broom
Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess’s hand.
Dnate Mars: Well, as chancellor, I hope to bring the full power of
the office to the people
Patroklus Murakami asks everyone else to hush up a bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… not for sweeping the floor… oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Dnate Mars: I am also committed to being sure to work with the RA to
be sure nothing but what is best for the CDS is passed and placed
into Law
Dnate Mars: The Chancellor position up until now has been a vague role
Dnate Mars: one thing I hope to be able to do is to make sure what a
chancellor is expected to do is clearly defined
ThePrincess? Parisi: Script run-time error
ThePrincess? Parisi: Stack-Heap? Collision
Dnate Mars: Also, the Chancellor has a duty to the sims that the CDS
holds. I will make sure that the events come to the sims again
Dnate Mars: I will also do what is need to promote the events and the
CDS as much as I and any staff I have can
Dnate Mars: I will actively seek people to help me in this endevor by
filling the positions of PIO and any other roles with the best people
possible, wheither they be in the CDS or a future member of the CDS
Dnate Mars: Thank you, and i look forward to your support
Moon Adamant applauds
Patroklus Murakami: thank you dnate 🙂
Flyingroc Chung cheers
Beathan Vale: hear hear
Pelanor Eldrich: hear hear
Patroklus Murakami: next michel. you have the floor
TOPGenosse Lundquist: ty Dnate 🙂
Leon Ash: ty
Michel Manen: Thomas Jefferson once said that the most difficult duty
of government officials is to create new laws and institutions that
go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind
Michel Manen: –that as new discoveries are made, new truths
disclosed, as manners and opinions change with the change of
circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the
times.
Michel Manen: Navigating on the virtual waves of a Metaverse barely
starting to take shape, we stand on the edge of tomorrow and sense
that a new civilization is about to be born.
Michel Manen: Only a few generations in the long history of mankind
have been granted the privilege to create whole new structures of
government, capable of making reasoned, just, and democratic
decisions necessary for their survival in a new world.
Michel Manen: The creativity, the commitment, the enthusiasm each of
us brings to our common project light our path into the future.
Michel Manen: I see the role of the Chancellor of the CDS as that of
giving our community a sense of direction in a world of change, by
making explicit commitments:
Michel Manen: TO the rule of law, and to the equality under the law
of all our citizens;
Michel Manen: To a fair, just, and effective system of justice, based
upon the common law system, accessible to all and serving the common
good of all our citizens;
Michel Manen: TO maintaining the CDSS as an active parliamentary
democracy based on universal voting and on freedom of opinion,
association and beliefs;
Michel Manen: TO strengthening the CDS by upholding an open,
accountable and effective system of governance founded on the
principle of separation of powers; and
Michel Manen: TO ensuring the CDS develops as a tolerant society,
celebrating the diversity, protecting the rights, and recognising the
responsibilites of all our citizens and various communities.
Michel Manen: If elected Chancellor, I will commit and devote
ourselves to the service of one overarching goal : Transforming the
CDS into a Dynamic Community on the Edge of Tomorrow.
Michel Manen: Thank you.
Moon Adamant applauds
ThePrincess? Parisi: bravo
Patroklus Murakami: ty michel 🙂 excellent timing
TOPGenosse Lundquist: *cough* *ahem*
Patroklus Murakami: moon is next. you have the floor
Moon Adamant: Ty Pat 🙂
Moon Adamant: i won’t taky much time
Moon Adamant: it is my belied that the Executive Branch is an agent
Moon Adamant: whose function is to orhanize, manage and implement
executive actions, derived from a clear governamental polcy
Moon Adamant: organize*
Moon Adamant: notice that i say ‘teh Executive Branch’
Moon Adamant: in my opinion, teh whole Executive is a team
Moon Adamant: it is my proposal to build a coherent team, committed
to the executive tasks
Moon Adamant: a flexible team…. this RA has passed bills that give
further responsability and tasks to the Executive branch
Moon Adamant: if i am appointed, these will be the main areas of action
Moon Adamant: – Territory . Institution of a transparent process
regarding requests of waivers to covenants, involving registry of
requests and decisions. . Maintenance of the CDS sims, by
establishing a Janitor for each. . Interventions on the public space:
– Altenstadt – Schloss – Setting of public teleporters on Platz and
Forum – Naming of streets in Colonia Nova
Moon Adamant: – Civil Service . Recruiting of citizens to fill the
existing empty roles in Civil Service. . Creation of a Tourism
Office, for local promotion and welcome of visitors to the CDS sims
Moon Adamant: – CDS Image . Setting up of general info on the CDS for
visitors on all of our sims. and establishing of an unified CDS website
Moon Adamant: – Events and cultural life . Re-institution of the
yearly events’ schedule, with preparation for Oktoberfest and Winter
Holidays. . Support of other events, including an eventual national
event policy.
Moon Adamant: – General Action . Support of the RA decisions when
necessary through executive action. . Close connection and work with
the NGOs to enhance particular aspects of the CDS life.
Moon Adamant: for short, to address these specific issues
Patroklus Murakami: stop pls 🙂
Moon Adamant: and those further that this RA may vote
Moon Adamant: ty 🙂
Moon Adamant: sorry for trespassing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty moon
Jon Seattle: cheers!
TOPGenosse Lundquist: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we have some time for questions. i suggest we
take them until 1:55 and then take the vote
Patroklus Murakami: RA members first. shoot!
Michel Manen: plese dont shoot!!
Flyingroc Chung searches for a gun
ThePrincess? Parisi: i will hit
Patroklus Murakami: LOL! sorry
Object: Michel
Object: Michel
Patroklus Murakami: fire away (oh, that’s no better!)
Xcite! Ruler is now aimed at Michel Manen
Moon Adamant: if any questions for me, can ypou please wait a minute?
brb
Beathan Vale: I have one
Patroklus Murakami: go ahead beathan
Beathan Vale: Moon has answered it —
Jon Seattle: I have one for dnate
Beathan Vale: What civil service positions would the Chancellor
create (or make sure to fill — if created by legislation) and what
would the relationship of the Chancellor to the civil servands who
fill those offices be
Moon Adamant: back, so sorry
Michel Manen: can i take that?
Patroklus Murakami: michel, then dnate. moon has already answereed
Michel Manen: CARE’s proposals on this have been clearly outlined and
I fully support them: A three person Finance Committee, a two-person
Legilative Drafting Committee, a PIO, and a Vice-Chancellor?. All
would be subject to the advice and consent of the RA, rxcept the Vice-
Chancellor who would be the runner up in the Chancellor election by
all CDS citizens.
Beathan Vale: Michel — much of that would take Constitutional
amendment — I was more interested in what you would do with your own
authority
Patroklus Murakami: dnate next
Patroklus Murakami: over to you, dnate
Dnate Mars: I would be sure to fill the POI spot as soon as possible.
Other people I would want to appoint would be general advisors to me.
I would seek people that I would want to help me see things in other
ways
Patroklus Murakami: moon, beathan was satisfied with your speech to
satisfy his question. but do u have anything to add?
Dnate Mars: There will be people that I would also trust and would
delegate some of my duties to. A event planner, janitor are a few
Patroklus Murakami: sorry dnate 🙂
Dnate Mars: It is ok, I have finished
Patroklus Murakami: ty dnate 🙂
Moon Adamant: well, i can add that for instance, the cultural bill
just passed will require that a branch of office be created, i think
Moon Adamant: to address it
Patroklus Murakami: do we have another question?
Moon Adamant: so the civil service can be expanded as need be
Jon Seattle: Yes. For DNate
Patroklus Murakami: go on jon
Jon Seattle: Dante, you mentioned that you would work to make sure
that nothing but what is best for the CDS is passed and placed into
Law. How would you do that? Could you expand on that a little?
Dnate Mars: One of the powers that the Chancellor has is the power of
the Veto.
Dnate Mars: While, I don’t see the need for it to be used a lot, if
there is something that seems unfair to the population of the CDS, I
will used the power to prevent unjust laws from being passed
Michel Manen: can i take that too?
Patroklus Murakami: yes michel. dnate, have you finished?
Dnate Mars: yes
Michel Manen: I personally believe that only the SC shpuld have the
power to veto legislation and I would do my best to make sure that
the veto is transferred frm th Executive to the Philosophical branch
in its entirety.
Patroklus Murakami: ty michel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: moon, do u wish to respond to the question?
Moon Adamant: well
Moon Adamant: i can only say that i trust the representatives of all
factions to be in constant contact with the citizens
Moon Adamant: i trust the RA representatives not to implement unjust
legislation
Moon Adamant: and i trust the SC to verify every bill passed 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
Patroklus Murakami: ty moon
Dnate Mars: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we have time for one more question (just). leon,
princess, do either of you have a question for the candidates?
Pelanor Eldrich: Do we have time for a question from the citizens?
Dnate Mars: what about the citizens?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (they come next)
Patroklus Murakami: i’m giving RA members teh chance to ask qns first
Moon Adamant: wb Leon 🙂
TOPGenosse Lundquist: wb
Leon Ash: Wb all
Patroklus Murakami: if leon and princess do not have a question we
can take one from any of the CDS citizens present. but i want to move
to the vote in about ten mins, ok?
Justice Soothsayer: Q for Michel: Why seek appointment by an RA where
your party is a minority, when you seek to have the Chancellor
elected by popular vote?
Leon Ash: I have no questions
Michel Manen: because i believe it is the right thing to do
Michel Manen: because i have a vision of this comunity
Michel Manen: We have a very clear choice between 3 different visions
of a Chancellor: Moon wants to be primarily the best possible
administrator and organiser; i want to focus first and foremost on
providing vision and leadership; and dnate is choosign a middle road
between the two. I tnk both Dnate and Moon would make great
Chancellors; but my conception of the job is different from them. You
must ow decide what type of Chancellor you wish to work with. Your
choices are very clear. Thanks.
Patroklus Murakami: ty leon 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: follow up: but isn’t the role currently
structured in the constitution primarily as administrative, with
leadership coming from the legislative branch?
Patroklus Murakami: any more questions?
Pelanor Eldrich: Q for Moon: We’ve heard about oligarchies
controlling the CDS. If you are elected then CSDF will control all 3
branches of Gov’t as well as most of the Guild. Isn’t that too much
concentration of power? Would you really veto unjust legislation
passed by your own faction?
Michel Manen: as i said, institutions are not written in stone. I
would work to strike a better bsalancce between all bra nches og
government in accordance with the rule of law, separation of powers,
and more efficient, accountable and effective government.
Moon Adamant: well; Pel, the CSDF members are known for being very
active members… so it’s not a surprise that they are present
Moon Adamant: considering how much volunteering and commitment is
needed for the CDS
Moon Adamant: oops, sorry Michel!
Michel Manen: np moon
Michel Manen: i was done
Moon Adamant: really?
Michel Manen: yes
Moon Adamant: ok, thanks
Patroklus Murakami: final question?
Moon Adamant: carrying on
Moon Adamant: oh, just let me finish please
Patroklus Murakami: yesyes
Patroklus Murakami: sorry moon
Moon Adamant: i trust that the CSDF will never pass unjust
legislation… after all, we do hold weekly meetings in which all
citizens are welcomed
Moon Adamant: and at which i speak my mind (sometimes very bluntly 🙂
Moon Adamant: Pat, please – and sorry
Patroklus Murakami: ok. i think we should move to the vote. unless
there are any objections?
Jon Seattle: I would also add, that it is not true that the CSDF
“controls” the RA, we cannot pass any legislation without the
cooperation of other parties.
Patroklus Murakami: the vote is called
Pelanor Eldrich: I would also add that the only thing stopping a full
steamrollering of the CSDF agenda is if *all* other RA members oppose
a bill.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan. how do you vote?
Justice Soothsayer: I vote for…. ooops, not a member anymore 🙁
Beathan Vale: Dnate
Patroklus Murakami: jon?
Flyingroc Chung: w00t
Moon Adamant: lol Justice
Jon Seattle: Moon Adamant
Patroklus Murakami: leon?
Leon Ash: Moon Adamant
Patroklus Murakami: i vote for moon
Patroklus Murakami: princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: The Mars one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: giggles
Dnate Mars: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: woohoo
Patroklus Murakami: the vote will continue over the next seven days.
i suggest we adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Dnate Mars: great!
Patroklus Murakami: ty everyone for coming
Michel Manen: thank you all!
Patroklus Murakami: a great start to teh term
Moon Adamant: thanks everyone 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm interesting result 🙂
Dnate Mars: thank you and good night!
Flyingroc Chung: I think mchel just mooned moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha FR!!!
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjournede

Permalink.

RA Meeting: August 12, 2007

Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
> Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
> TOPGenosse Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
> Patroklus Murakami: brian has sent his apologies
> Bromo Ivory: He’s offline?
> Patroklus Murakami: let’s wait a couple of minutes for the others
> Bromo Ivory: OK
> Yogeswari Padar: hi leon
> Bromo Ivory: ALso are we going to do a 7 day if we get a quuorum?
> Bromo Ivory: Jon – did you read the link I gave you?
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: hey Leon ! 🙂
> Leon Ash: Hey TOP and Yoge
> Bromo Ivory: Hi Leon – I don’t beleive we’ve met
> Bromo Ivory: I’m Bromo Ivory – RA for CARE
> Bromo Ivory: Princess is not likely to make it – RL stuff
> Leon Ash: We’ve spoken a few times in this sim, but we’ve never really spoken iykwim 🙂
> Bromo Ivory: she IMed me this morning
> Bromo Ivory: Mya have … I am terrible with names! 🙂
> Leon Ash: Hi Bromo, we have spoken a few times in this sim, but we haven’t met properly iykwim 🙂
> Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
> Bromo Ivory: Well pleased to meet you officially Leon!
> Bromo Ivory: 🙂
> Bromo Ivory offers to shake hand to paw
> Leon Ash hsakes Bromo’s hand
> Bromo Ivory shakes Leon’s paw
> Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we begin
> Bromo Ivory: We have 4 member here?
> Patroklus Murakami: brian can’t be here and has requested that we go to 7-day voting for all bills
> Patroklus Murakami: notecards are in teh wooden box
> Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded
> Bromo Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
> Patroklus Murakami: yes, bromo. we have four members present so we are quorate
> Dnate Mars: Sorry, the Guild meeting was running long
> Patroklus Murakami: first item: reports
> Bromo Ivory nods ‘Good”
> Patroklus Murakami: i don’t expect you’ll have had much time to work on teh citizenship commision bromo 🙂 but do you have anything to report? annything on plans?
> Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
> Bromo Ivory: I was going ot have a meeting next Saturday in the park that Mizou used for hers for the first meeting. I will also start a thread on the forums to get the maximum inputs. I have a time TBD – though I suspect it will be 11 or 12 on Saturday
> Bromo Ivory: So thats all I have!
> Patroklus Murakami: that’s okay, ty for that bromo
> Bromo Ivory: (Posted the section of the constitution to the forums already)
> Patroklus Murakami: dnate, do you have anything to add on the chancelry? i have asked RA members to let me give you the spreadsheet i made of their availability (to set teh RA meeting time). you might find it helpful in putting together teh gov qn hour
> Dnate Mars: yes, thank you. The one main thing I would like to announce is that we once again have the position of PIO filled
> Patroklus Murakami: excellent news? who has volunteered?
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: great 🙂
> Dnate Mars: Rose Springvale has agreed to fill the position as well as being the event coordinator
> Leon Ash: Sounds like good news
> Bromo Ivory is releived we found a volunteer
> Patroklus Murakami: good. glad to hear it. i’m sure rose will do an excellent job
> Leon Ash cheers for Rose
> Bromo Ivory claps
> ThePrincess? Parisi: hip hop
> Dnate Mars: I have been working on the Excecutive powers bill also this last week, we have been having a very good discussion on the forums. I am also working on filling the rest of the Civil servent positions
> Patroklus Murakami: and we have had one application for the events fund already. a good start in its first week of oepration
> Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure there’ll be more when it is more widely known about
> Dnate Mars: yes, we have! I think the events should be coming now
> Dnate Mars: that is all I have to say for right now
> Patroklus Murakami: ok, item 2. web portal bill. jon, could yoiu introduce this. (ty dnate)
> Bromo Ivory: I found some rates for DJ’s for anyone that wants to budget
> Moon Adamant: hello everyone
> Leon Ash: Hi Moon
> Bromo Ivory: Hi Moon! 😀
> Leon Ash: Hi Tan
> ThePrincess? Parisi: hello moon
> Michel Manen: hi moon 🙂
> Jon Seattle: Okay, as you know the CDS has several sites and applications that serve as our discussion forum and reponsitory for laws and transcripts
> Jon Seattle: Right now there are several citisezens who volunteer both the manage and fund these sites
> Jon Seattle: this bill would allow us to bring those resources into a single web site managed directly by the CDS
> Jon Seattle: and allow us to upgrade technology, as there are several excellent open source systems available.
> Jon Seattle:
> Patroklus Murakami: ty jon 🙂 anyone else wish to comment? or aska question?
> Bromo Ivory: I like this – the website is a tangle currently – so I like the bill and its provisions.
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: Yes: I like it a lot 🙂 Very good for the PIO.
> Bromo Ivory: (and Dnate needs to watch out for item #7!)
> Dnate Mars: that is why I made sure the PIO was filled before this bill passed 😉
> Bromo Ivory: lol … !
> Patroklus Murakami: hehe, good thinking dnate!
> Patroklus Murakami: any further comments?
> Patroklus Murakami: ok, let’s move to the vote. RA members, pls announce your vote
> Jon Seattle votes Aye
> Bromo Ivory votes aye
> Patroklus Murakami votes aye
> ThePrincess? Parisi votes aye
> Leon Ash votes yes
> Leon Ash corrects themselves. Votes Aye.
> Patroklus Murakami: then the bill passes. excellent!
> Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 3. who would like to introduce the CARER commission bill?
> Bromo Ivory: I will
> Bromo Ivory: (Pat should i just start?)
> Patroklus Murakami: yes, pls go ahead bromo
> Bromo Ivory: OK – One of the things we wangt to do is encourage an increase of CDS centered recreation, education, artisitc and commerical activities
> Bromo Ivory: And we feel that the citizenry can speak best on what will work for them – so would like to have a comission to do just that – ask for inputs on what would work!
> Bromo Ivory: We would propose a commission in order to gather the data to come up with some conrete and workable proposals.
> Bromo Ivory: /done
> Patroklus Murakami: ok, ty bromo. would anyone else like to comment?
> Yogeswari Padar: can non-RA members speak?
> Jon Seattle: I have a question. Is this being proposed under the commission act?
> Patroklus Murakami: sure yoge 🙂
> Yogeswari Padar: my question is whether a commission – which is yet anoher layer of bureuacracy – is needed to do what bromo proposes
> Bromo Ivory: It would be a group that comes to gether to decide what would work best – it is a temporary group
> Michel Manen: its not a layer of bureaucracy- its getting as many people od possible involved in our community -something osrely laking right now
> Yogeswari Padar: why couldn’t the RA, along with the events coordinator, handle it?
> Dnate Mars: Isn’t a lot fo what this bill asks for already going on? Education with in the New Guild, Recreational with the events bill, artistic with MOCA?
> Moon Adamant: i would like to ask
> Moon Adamant: if it isn’t superposing with MoCA, Guild
> Michel Manen: well where are the results?
> Moon Adamant: you don’t think there are results?
> Michel Manen: no. the sims are as empty and eventless as usual
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: Btw, the bill has an impossibly wide range of subjects that it aims to decide on
> Moon Adamant: wait… is this only for events, then?
> Moon Adamant: so why is it called CARER…?
> Bromo Ivory: Well item #2 is the main philosphy
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: to plug a faction Moon
> Bromo Ivory: and #3 is the means
> Bromo Ivory: We don’t need to call it CARER if you don’t like
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: because Michel wrote the bill, that’s why it’s called CARER
> Michel Manen: it is designed to draw on the expertise of all our citizens in the commercial, artistic, recreational and educational fields
> Patroklus Murakami: it would help bromo 🙂
> Bromo Ivory: OK – how about “Revitalization COmission”
> Michel Manen: something not happening now
> Jon Seattle: Is this an RA commission or is it not?
> Dnate Mars: Why is this commission going to get better results then what NG or MOCA have already tried?
> Patroklus Murakami: yes, bromo. that would be better
> Bromo Ivory: The important thing is that we increase the vitality of our SIMs
> Bromo Ivory: not the silly title
> Michel Manen: because it would draw on the experience and knowledge of all our citizens
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: you hear that Michel: silly title!
> Yogeswari Padar: do you know what the citzenry wants?
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: rembmer 🙂
> Bromo Ivory: TOP – calm down
> Michel Manen: relax TOP
> Dnate Mars: I have begged people to hold classes in our sim, so far, only 2 people have stepped up to do this
> ThePrincess? Parisi: dont make me put this puppy down and get a stick
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: I am very relaxed, it’s just a lame name
> Moon Adamant: my point is
> Patroklus Murakami: TOP, i may have to slap your legs in a minute
> Jon Seattle: Still waiting for an answer though: Is this an RA commission or is it not?
> Moon Adamant: we have two orgs already doing work
> Michel Manen: sure it is
> Jon Seattle: Bromo?
> Bromo Ivory: It is a comission in the light of the citizenship comission
> Yogeswari Padar: and we now have an events coordinator
> Jon Seattle: Ah!
> Patroklus Murakami: commissions are chaired by RA members, not by the Chancellor
> Jon Seattle: then it must have a chair chosen from the RA as I understand it
> Bromo Ivory: SUre
> Dnate Mars: it is easy to say we want more events, but people don’t want to do the work to actually hold an event
> Yogeswari Padar: but do the CITIZENS want more events?
> Yogeswari Padar: have you surveyed them?
> Bromo Ivory: Well if we have been guessing and getting it wrong – perhaps that we have been working form assumptions and not data?
> Yogeswari Padar: and if they do want events, what kind?
> Michel Manen: which is why we should acutally try to listen to what all citizens hve to say, draw upon their ideas and exprience and get them all involved
> Bromo Ivory: Yes Yoge
> Yogeswari Padar: but you don’t need another group to do that, michel
> Yogeswari Padar: you have the RA, guild, MoCA, and a new events coordinator who could assess the need
> Bromo Ivory: The RA would make itself felt in a comisison, Yoge
> Dnate Mars: I agree, we do have most of this covered already
> Yogeswari Padar: but why create another layer?
> Michel Manen: no – it should involve as many people as possible not just public officials
> Moon Adamant: perhaps teh PIO could make a poll?
> Yogeswari Padar: it’s unecessary
> Bromo Ivory: We arne’t
> Yogeswari Padar: PIO is a great idea, moon
> Patroklus Murakami: i have a concern about the number of commissions being proposed. if we hold too many simultaneously we spread ourselves too thinly
> Bromo Ivory: A comission is not a bureaucratic layer – it is a fact finding council
> Michel Manen: indeed
> Moon Adamant: but do the policy on events be settled at RA level?
> Yogeswari Padar: but you have groups alsready in existence that can do this work
> Dnate Mars: do you know people as of right now that feel they can’t get heard by a group that has been mentioned in regards to events?
> Moon Adamant: isn’t it an executive task?
> Michel Manen: consulting the citizens is a task of the RA
> Dnate Mars: Anyone that wants do hold a class in these sims I have asked time and time again to contact me if they need help
> Dnate Mars: no one does….
> Yogeswari Padar: then have the RA do it, michel – survey the citizenry
> Michel Manen: well has anyone tried to do more than post notices on foerums?
> Yogeswari Padar: you dopn’t need a new commission to do it
> Bromo Ivory: So are we saying we are all comfortbale with the level of activity in the SIM’s then?
> Moon Adamant: the RA can mandate the PIO to make a poll too
> Michel Manen: its not about a poll
> Michel Manen: its about listenitng to our citizens
> Moon Adamant: no, Bromo, that’s not what we are saying
> Bromo Ivory: Good
> Michel Manen: making an effort to get them involved
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, no we are suggesting some more efficent ways of getting the same result. I think Yoge has a good point.
> Dnate Mars: Bromo, but if the citizens of the sim don’t want to hold events, we can’t make them
> Michel Manen: something we sorely lack here
> Michel Manen: well lets find out what they think
> Michel Manen: thats all this commission proposes
> Moon Adamant: but you must agree that it overlaps several NGOs?
> Yogeswari Padar: but why create another layer of bureaucracy to do it, michel, when you have groups already in place?
> Bromo Ivory: Dnate – it is a quesiton of motivation – and we can do a lot better in encouraging them – and maybe figuring out what we would need to do.
> Bromo Ivory: (not bureaucracy, Yoge)
> Michel Manen: well its not another level of bureaucracy- its making citizns feel that we care about what they think
> Yogeswari Padar: any time you add another group you create another layer, bromo
> Moon Adamant: but don’t you agree that it overlpas several NGOs’ scopes, Michel?
> Michel Manen: thats not true yoge
> Patroklus Murakami: i think we should postpone setting up another commision until the first one is underway
> Dnate Mars: and how would this commision be any better then what the NG or MOCA have tried to do in the past?
> Dnate Mars: (and currently doing?)
> Michel Manen: it could work well together with other NGOs yes
> Yogeswari Padar: why not ask the new events coordinator to poll the citizens? wouldn’t that be within her purview?
> Patroklus Murakami: nothing stops teh PIO or others from doing some of the preparatory work – polls etc
> Michel Manen: in a cooperative and not competitive spirit
> Moon Adamant: not together… i am talking overlapping here
> Michel Manen: i dont accept the premise.. there are no exclusive jurisdictions here
> Moon Adamant: FYI, the Guild is already assembling itself volunatrily for the resolutiuon of several issues
> Jon Seattle: Yes, I like Yoge’s idea on this and it would not require legislation
> Moon Adamant: well, but don’t you think that anyone who wants to join the Guild or Moca can?
> Bromo Ivory: Anyone doesn’t need a NGO structure to do events and such – but. they. don’t.
> Michel Manen: i think we need a much more direct and proractive approach in getting citizens involved than what we have so far
> Yogeswari Padar: well, perhaps, bromo, that’s telling us something important
> Patroklus Murakami: five more minutes folks. we have a lot to discuss today
> Bromo Ivory: We make assumptions, say that everythign is either OK, or that could be handled – but the fact is that it isn’t and a direct approach may be called for – and this is pretty direct
> Dnate Mars: but I don’t think we need RA to pass anything to get it done
> Michel Manen: yes- we’re lousy communicators Yoge
> Yogeswari Padar agrees with michel on that point
> Moon Adamant: i am a bit concerned, i must say, in demanding more time from the people already volunteering than it’s already being asked
> Bromo Ivory: WOuld it make sense to table this for 2 weeks and bring it up in 2 weeks on the agenda?
> Bromo Ivory: Gives everyone some time to think
> Patroklus Murakami: i think that would be a very sensible move bromo
> Bromo Ivory: I propose to do that
> Yogeswari Padar: and in the interim, another volunteer or group can survey the populace and report back with some data
> Yogeswari Padar: 🙂
> Michel Manen: lol
> Bromo Ivory: Sure – if they come up with a lot of great data maybe we won’t need it – I would love that!
> Patroklus Murakami: all in favour of tabling this for two weeks? pls vote
> Patroklus Murakami votes aye
> Bromo Ivory notes aye
> ThePrincess? Parisi votes aye
> Jon Seattle: aye
> Patroklus Murakami: did we lose leon?
> Bromo Ivory: I do not see him
> Patroklus Murakami: aah. well. the motion to table passes in his absence 🙂
> Patroklus Murakami: item 4. Defining ‘the CDS’ Proposed Constl Amendment
> Patroklus Murakami: I propose we have a brief discussion about this. to complement the forum discussion. and come to a decision on text at a future meeting
> Jon Seattle: second that proposal 🙂
> Patroklus Murakami: the purpose of putting this forward was threefold
> Bromo Ivory: (Assumption that we need one)
> Patroklus Murakami: there’s teh IP issue. if ppl do work for ‘the CDS’ what does that mean?
> Patroklus Murakami: but that’s a fairly dry legal issue. it doesn’t express our soul
> Michel Manen: in fact this issue was referred to the RA by the guild, right?
> Patroklus Murakami: so i wanted to try to put together a text that says what the CDS is all about
> Patroklus Murakami: something that explains what the CDS is
> Patroklus Murakami: i doubt i got it right 🙂 But the point was to start a discussion
> Patroklus Murakami: let’s continue that here for another twenty minutes or so
> Patroklus Murakami: i invite comments from the floor
> Bromo Ivory: :O
> Patroklus Murakami: welcome back leon btw 🙂
> Leon Ash: Thank you Pat, Did I miss anything?
> Jon Seattle: wb Leon 🙂
> Leon Ash: Any votes that is? 🙂
> Michel Manen: well it still doesnt address the specific issue the guild asked the RA to resolve…
> Jon Seattle: yes
> Jon Seattle: No, we will need more legislation to address the IP issue
> Bromo Ivory: And Sudane weighed in on not using her Alt to hold IP
> Jon Seattle: thats why this is just the first step in the discussion
> Bromo Ivory: Why not just concentrate on that issue – the IP issue?
> Michel Manen: When you say The CDS is represented by all three branches of government – what does that mean in practice?
> Bromo Ivory: (typing borked)
> Bromo Ivory: ;
> Patroklus Murakami: has the guild asked the RA to resolve an issue?
> Michel Manen: yes
> Michel Manen: Jon?
> Jon Seattle: Yes, the guild has asked that the RA resolve the assignment of IP use rights
> Bromo Ivory: Sorry – my typing is borked – please ignore my hands moving
> Patroklus Murakami: for me, that’s a no-brainer. the CDS, however defined, must hold all the use rights to its buildings, territory, IP etc
> Bromo Ivory: Sure, the devil in the details is by what mechanism
> Michel Manen: well that does not solve the problem. Who is the legal persona of the CDS?
> Jon Seattle: Indeed. but we need to find a mechaism to transfer those rights.
> Jon Seattle: Yes, and the legal entity to hold those rights.
> Michel Manen: indeed
> Patroklus Murakami: michel. the issue is trivial. all we need to do is define it and say who holds the rights
> Michel Manen: well if its so trivial why dont wew just do it? smiles
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and why are you people so rude
> Bromo Ivory: Rudeen stepped down
> Patroklus Murakami: because there are several options for *how* you might do that. and discussion over which is best
> Michel Manen: so its not so trivial after all
> Patroklus Murakami: the point i’m making is that it’s not an insuperable task
> Michel Manen: triv?i?al (tr?v’?-?l) pronunciation adj. 1. Of little significance or value
> Michel Manen: i think its quite significant
> Bromo Ivory: Well over that we had people resigning form the guild – storing off in anger and so on – so I wouldn’t belittle it
> Bromo Ivory: It is rather tough
> Michel Manen: triv?i?al (tr?v’?-?l) pronunciation adj. 1. Of little significance or value
> Michel Manen: not the same at all as insuperable
> Patroklus Murakami: it’s not beyond our wit to find a solution
> Michel Manen: i agree. lets do it.then :0
> Jon Seattle: No, its quite solveable
> Bromo Ivory: Great! I don’t see it – whats the trivial sol;ution?
> Patroklus Murakami: so let’s keep trying to find a solution
> ThePrincess? Parisi: imleaveing
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, there are several people working on additional legislation. It seems to me when we get there we will have several options.
> Michel Manen: so far we’ve actualy discussed nothing of substance related to this
> Bromo Ivory: Well then it really ins’t that trivial – and this preamble doesn’t solve that issue obvioulsy
> Jon Seattle: wb Leon
> Leon Ash: Thanks Jon
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, agreed, the preamle does not solve the whole problem
> Jon Seattle: but it is a necessary step to have some definition
> Bromo Ivory: Well doesn’t solve the legal problem –
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: hm, we lost Princess 🙁
> Bromo Ivory: The rest is platitudes
> Bromo Ivory: in my mind anyway
> Patroklus Murakami: well, bromo. the rest is what we way we are to teh outside world
> Jon Seattle: Yes, but it will very likley be required to solve the problem. You cannot write a contract nor register an organization without bylaws, etc.
> Bromo Ivory: We did she said someoen was being insulting to her in IM
> Patroklus Murakami: i think it sums up what we’re about very well
> Bromo Ivory: SO might be good to restrain name calling even in IM
> Patroklus Murakami: well, i’ve been called names by princess in IM. but let’s contiue with our meeting, shall we?
> Bromo Ivory: SO you guys got in a IM fight. Great.
> Patroklus Murakami ignores provocation
> Bromo Ivory: Yeah, best to move on
> Bromo Ivory: (not provoking expressing dissappointment)
> Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to the next item. dnate, would you care to introduce your bill?
> Dnate Mars: Sure
> Jon Seattle: wb ThePrincess?
> ThePrincess? Parisi: the problem is that you ppl are mean to each other .. and i have heard form lots of ppl who dont participate
> ThePrincess? Parisi: that the reason is
> ThePrincess? Parisi: yu are rude
> ThePrincess? Parisi: pat you are rude
> ThePrincess? Parisi: you are inconsiderate
> ThePrincess? Parisi: an d you make this sutff person
> ThePrincess? Parisi: personal
> ThePrincess? Parisi: its not about that
> Jon Seattle: wb Leon
> Patroklus Murakami: princess. could you behave yourself? you’re disrupting the meeting
> ThePrincess? Parisi: lots of ppl dont participate
> Dnate Mars: My bill is the restructering of the Executive branch of the government. The main things to notice is that the Chancellor will be elected via the people instead of the RA. It also clairify the powers that the Exec has in regrads to his or her staff
> ThePrincess? Parisi: DONT YOU DARE TALK TO ME LIKE THAT
> Leon Ash: Having difficulties staying online tonight. Apologies everyone 🙂
> Michel Manen: free speech for RA mebmers pat?
> Patroklus Murakami: dnate is speaking princess
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a right to speak
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and from now on ..
> Patroklus Murakami: you are interruptng him
> ThePrincess? Parisi: you speak to me in open
> Patroklus Murakami: dnate has the floor
> ThePrincess? Parisi: dont IM me mmean theing
> ThePrincess? Parisi: CDS suffers form the way you ll act in here
> Patroklus Murakami: i’ll happily publish our entire IM exchange if you are willing, after teh meeting
> Patroklus Murakami: for now, dnate has the floor
> ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry dnate
> Moon Adamant: i would like to hear what Dnate has to say indeed…
> Dnate Mars: The main reasons I wanted to introduce this bill is to get people to start talking about the Executive banch and what is expected and needed form them.
> ThePrincess? Parisi: TOPGenosse Lundquist: Pat may be rude, but look at Michel’s character, he’s so sweet persuasive and ‘inclusive’ – isn’t that a coincidence 🙂 I wonder who always advises you: friends? Bromo? or …. is it Michel?
> ThePrincess? Parisi: dont IM me bs
> ThePrincess? Parisi: no one
> Dnate Mars: It does also take some of the power that the RA currently has by making the Chancellor less beholded to the RA and moreso to the people
> Dnate Mars: but I feel with the AB being removed the RA has much to much power and this would help balance it back to 3 branches
> Dnate Mars: We have had a very good discussion on the forums so far, and I would like to have that continue
> Moon Adamant: AB?
> Moon Adamant: ah, artisanal branch
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: hahah : why don’t you answer that Princess?
> Patroklus Murakami: TOP, please stop
> ThePrincess? Parisi: cos i amtoo busy in your IMs
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: that was a private conversation Princess just pasted here, ty very much
> ThePrincess? Parisi: dont do that in open
> Bromo Ivory: TOP – we don’t need any more personal fighting in the RA
> Dnate Mars: I would suggest after we discuss this more today that we table the actual vote for a wekk.
> Bromo Ivory agrees with Dnate
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: Bromo I was just talking to Princess, she took it to the floor; and as far as I’m concerned she better do some introspection
> Dnate Mars: any questions?
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i do
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a question
> Patroklus Murakami: first of all. i’d like us to focus on the issue
> Patroklus Murakami: yes, princess?
> Bromo Ivory agrees with Pat
> ThePrincess? Parisi: well, i am new here.. but i want to say
> Jon Seattle: yes, please, lets focus on the bill at hand
> ThePrincess? Parisi: that i have been advised
> ThePrincess? Parisi: what?
> ThePrincess? Parisi: so i cant sepeak
> Patroklus Murakami: i’ve just invited youto speak princess. to teh bill that dnate has introduced
> ThePrincess? Parisi: this is the problem with CDS and getting people to participate
> ThePrincess? Parisi: the issues are that you people cant conduct yourselves in a way that is not hateful
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i was told not to do this for CDS
> ThePrincess? Parisi: now i know why
> ThePrincess? Parisi: its more imoprtatnt
> ThePrincess? Parisi: than the issue
> Patroklus Murakami: princess, you’re way off topic and out of line
> ThePrincess? Parisi: its why ppl are mean
> ThePrincess? Parisi: NO I AM NOT
> Patroklus Murakami: if you want to raise this issue after dnates’ bill i will give you the floor
> Moon Adamant: actually, i feel a bit curious on whom may have said that to Princess
> ThePrincess? Parisi: quite a few ppl
> Patroklus Murakami: until then, we are discussing item 5
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and the ppl you know well how deleted friends
> ThePrincess? Parisi: after the electoin
> ThePrincess? Parisi: its just silly
> Moon Adamant: seeing i don’t recall ever a scene like this in the RA in 3 terms
> ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
> ThePrincess? Parisi: no but people wont come back and serve cos you all dont speak to the real isseus that you all hate each other
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: I don’t know who told you about delting friends,… it sounds like a made up story, who told you that?
> ThePrincess? Parisi: Toop you are calling em a liar
> Patroklus Murakami: ok. all those in favour of continuing with dnates bill? (the alternative is dealing with princess’ issue now)
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: very entertaining but … why not get to item 5?
> ThePrincess? Parisi: it happened to me
> Patroklus Murakami votes aye
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and another RA memeber
> Moon Adamant bows to the RA
> Jon Seattle: yes, lets deal with item 5 first
> ThePrincess? Parisi: yes Jon
> Patroklus Murakami: leon? bromo? princess? what do you want to do?
> Bromo Ivory: I have a question abotu the bill
> Dnate Mars: If that is what we still are on, ask away 🙂
> Leon Ash: item 5 first, but I think we need to address The Princess’ concerns
> Patroklus Murakami: then we continue with dnates’ bill
> Bromo Ivory: Section (d) – the RA isn’t indicated as controlling the purse strings.
> Patroklus Murakami: bromo, your qn please
> Dnate Mars: section 2 part d?
> Bromo Ivory: Yes – I think that is the one where you are going to pay your staff
> Dnate Mars: yes, well not all of my staff has piad positions. The PIO bill states that there is $L1000 a month fo rthe office. There is also to be rummored that there is a executive branch budget somewhere
> Dnate Mars: it would be these monies that I would deal wiht
> Bromo Ivory: SO you would pay it out of your budget?
> Dnate Mars: yes
> Bromo Ivory: OK – I beleive it won’t need adjustment if that was the case
> Bromo Ivory: That’s my main question.
> Bromo Ivory: Thanks Dnate!
> Moon Adamant: but Dnate
> Dnate Mars: It is too bad the SP isn’t here to ask questions…
> Moon Adamant: the process, i would think
> Moon Adamant: would be to you to request extraordinary budgets of the RA … say you need to have another civil servant
> Dnate Mars: Well, currently it says “(d) to appoint and pay deputies or other staff to hold office in the Office of the Chancellor of CDS to facilitate the discharge of any function of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly;”
> Dnate Mars: the only change was that they will serve at the will of the Chancellor
> Moon Adamant: yes… can’t recall if the budget isn’t at the Civil Service Act
> Jon Seattle: I have a question also.
> Patroklus Murakami: as you know dnate, i am not keen on the idea of a directly-elected chancellor
> Patroklus Murakami: the csdf opposed that when teh offic was established. why should we change our position now?
> Patroklus Murakami: and then jon has a question
> Dnate Mars: Because it is better this way 🙂
> Moon Adamant: the philosophy, as i recall, was that the three branches of gov should be appointed in different ways – to keep the balance
> Bromo Ivory: I think the Chancellor is an important enough office that direct accountability to the voters is an idea worth considering
> Dnate Mars: no, but really if the Exec is going to be the 3rd branch of the government, then it need to be more seperate then it currently is
> Patroklus Murakami: why bromo, dnate? why is it better? surely the important thing is who carreis out teh functions?
> Dnate Mars: right now the same way to over ride a veto can remove the chancellor from office. Why would any chancellor veto anything if they will just be removed form office because of it?
> Patroklus Murakami: (let’s aim to wind up at twenty to two)
> Moon Adamant: brb
> Patroklus Murakami: jon, your question?
> Michel Manen: why are we afraid of direct citizen participation? in our events, our legislation making process, the way we elect our executive? who has so much to lose by allowing more citizens to participate directly?
> Dnate Mars: I think there needs to be a way to elect the chancellor that does not require the RA to do anything for it. The SC doesn’t appoint the RA members, nor the other way around, why is this branch different?
> Jon Seattle: Yes, Dnate, I am trying to find the details. I remember that the Civil Service act protects civil servants against being fired under certain conditions. Am I correct in reading that as reversing some of those provisions?
> Dnate Mars: I think for some of the position, yes it should be
> Patroklus Murakami: (i’m not typing btw, just animating for no reason)
> Jon Seattle: Sorry, severe chat lag
> Dnate Mars: the bill is: http://aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-index.php?page=NL+5-7
> Bromo Ivory: DNate, I have 1 more question
> Jon Seattle: hmmm.. did you see my follow up question?
> Dnate Mars: no I didn’t
> Jon Seattle: let me type it again.. the Civil Service Act keeps a CS from being fired if they act to protect the constition or the laws. Why reverse those provisions?
> Jon Seattle: *constitution
> Patroklus Murakami: chat lag!
> Patroklus Murakami waits for dnate
> Dnate Mars: I am not sure I understand how someone can be fired for not breaking the constitution, won’t that mean the Chancellor himself is trying to break a lawa nd will be removed?
> Jon Seattle: Not necessarily, or that may be more difficult
> Moon Adamant: hmmm, no, the Chanc is not a civil servant, and this applies specifically to them
> Jon Seattle: Moon, Dnate’s proposal allows him to fire some civil servants for any cause
> Jon Seattle: (Him being the chancellor at the time.)
> Dnate Mars: I am thinking that there needs to be 2 types of people serving under the executive branch, ones that serve at the will of the Chancellor, ie a cabenit type, and others like the PIO where the RA should affirm them
> Michel Manen: well he should have the option to work with a team of his choosing 😉
> Bromo Ivory: WOuld you be willing to delinate those that aerve by approval of RA and those that serve only at teh Chancellor’s will?
> Moon Adamant: Yes, Jon, i see the point
> Moon Adamant: and surely the civil service must keep teh level of protection on the previous bill
> Dnate Mars: it confuses me because I don’t see in the bill where it says they can’t be fired for not breaking a law. It just says they will uphold the const. just as teh chancellor must
> Michel Manen: not all – i agree with Dnate, he should have sole jurisdiction over his immediate cabinet 😉
> Patroklus Murakami: the section “he Chancellor can remove the deputies or other staff anytime with or without reason and nominate new citizens to fill those positions;” would appear to give teh chancellor to much power over appointments
> Patroklus Murakami: i doubt that is UDHR -compatible
> Jon Seattle: Well, it establishes a priority and a way of resolving disputes between the Chancellor’s directives, the laws, and the constitution.
> Dnate Mars: as of right now, if I appoint someone and they don’t work out for whatever reason, I can’t get rid of them and place someone else in the spot?
> Michel Manen: well the US cabinet members serve at the will of the President.. nothing violating human rights there 😉
> Bromo Ivory: I think the Chancellor right now doens’t have enough power – so if you guys think the proposal has too little power – then what should happen?
> Patroklus Murakami: you should be able to fire ppl for incomptence but there shd be due process
> Jon Seattle: Dnate, its not clear that you would be able to if they follow he procedure in the Civil Service bill.
> Michel Manen: and in parliamentaryr systems Prime ministers can reshuffle cabinets at will
> Dnate Mars: Not for appoint positions
> Michel Manen: not much violations of humna rights either
> Patroklus Murakami: i’m ready to vote on this. shall we move to a vote?
> Bromo Ivory: Well the RA coupld be partof the hiring process, but the firing process could be betwene the Chancellor and the officerin question?
> Jon Seattle: I move that we vote.
> Dnate Mars: (I think time is up anyway)
> Bromo Ivory: I htought we’d discuss and have avote next week?
> Dnate Mars: I think we need a vote to table it until next week?
> Dnate Mars: We can continue to talk about it on the forums….
> Bromo Ivory: I second that
> Leon Ash agrees
> Jon Seattle: Well, Dnate, then we have two different motions on the floor, we need to vote on each.
> Patroklus Murakami: we have a motion to table teh vote until next week
> Patroklus Murakami: i vote nay, let’s take the vote this week
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: good idea
> Michel Manen: yes that would seem best… we havent really discussed it in detail and others may want to participate
> Jon Seattle: I vote ney as well, lets resolve this
> Bromo Ivory: I vote aye, lets table this until next week
> Patroklus Murakami: princess?
> Dnate Mars: We haven’t even heard from the SP party…..
> Patroklus Murakami: leon?
> Bromo Ivory: Yes this is why this isn’t fair to vote on an amendment
> ThePrincess? Parisi votes aye
> Leon Ash: Postpone so I think that is Aye
> Patroklus Murakami: ok. we postpone the vote until next week
> Bromo Ivory: Dnate – can you post somethign to the forums?
> Dnate Mars: I will be posting a revised bill soon
> Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we hold off on discussing teh remaining agenda items until next week
> Patroklus Murakami: princess. you had an issue you wanted to raise? over to you
> Bromo Ivory: I second
> Leon Ash agrees with Pat, would like to hear ThePrincess’s concerns
> Bromo Ivory: Yes
> Bromo Ivory: Princess – please tell us your concern
> ThePrincess? Parisi: no i dont want to .. i will get it all togeher fro next time..
> Bromo Ivory: (Though I have in idea)
> ThePrincess? Parisi: but the basic
> ThePrincess? Parisi: is that .. you have problems in CDS
> ThePrincess? Parisi: abou tyour inabilty to get alone
> ThePrincess? Parisi: along in here
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and you might think its silly
> ThePrincess? Parisi: but tis not
> ThePrincess? Parisi: it permeates teh way ppl see us
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and it hinders our growth
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and success
> ThePrincess? Parisi: end
> Patroklus Murakami: why don’t you tell us what teh problem is rather than keeping us guessing? i’d like to publish our IM log since it is unfair to have a proper discussion without evidence
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: RA, sorry for interrupting so much. Princess do you want to apologize to me for pasting private IM’s into this meeting? Very professional!
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i have to go then sorry
> ThePrincess? Parisi: NO
> ThePrincess? Parisi: TOP
> ThePrincess? Parisi: you wer eso rutde
> ThePrincess? Parisi: and inappropriate
> Yogeswari Padar: princess, i’m wondering if you can talk a bit about the evidence you have that our growth is being hindered
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i have to go
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: How did I insult you??
> ThePrincess? Parisi: no i cant now.. i ahve to go
> ThePrincess? Parisi: you did
> Moon Adamant: i agree with Yoge, i would like to hear more on that too
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: right ….
> ThePrincess? Parisi: i will talk alter soor brb
> Bromo Ivory: Well form the log we can see that Pat and Princess got into a IM fight that got nasty enough that Princess felt the need to leave – we really shouldn’t have that sort of behavior in the RA
> Patroklus Murakami: no bromo. don’t play that game
> Bromo Ivory: I will put together a motion for a meeting to affirm the RA’s commitmmnet to civil discourse
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, I would like to hear more.. I am not at all certain what happened
> Patroklus Murakami: you didn’t see the IMs so you don’t know what was said
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: in the ra? it’s private – and who’s pasting it here? why don’t you give it some nice spin Bromo!
> Bromo Ivory: I know little more than what was spoken aloud
> Patroklus Murakami: i’m prepared to paste it all in the chat log right now
> Patroklus Murakami: all i need is for princeess to give her permission
> Bromo Ivory: TOP – this is not about spin – it is about civility – I am blaming no one, just when people get insulted and upset – it is a concern since it can shut down solid and substative discourse
> Patroklus Murakami: then we can discuss what was actually said instead of shadow boxing
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: I’m all for substantive discourse.
> Yogeswari Padar: well, then, bromo, perhaps the motion needs to clarify that private conversations must stay private and cannot be discussed publicly without the consent of both parties.
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, when it is said here in that tone, it is about gaining political advantage, its not about civil discourse. I for one would like to know if these accusations have any basis.
> Michel Manen: well except when someone tries to bully someone else…. thats not against UDHR? smiles
> Bromo Ivory: I would go further by making a non binding motion that RA’s are committed to making things said to others in the room on record
> Patroklus Murakami: bully? you mean when someone makes false accusations of ‘rudeness’ in order to shut down debate?
> Yogeswari Padar: we’re all grownups,michel, and should be able to defend ourselves privately
> Bromo Ivory: Pat it didn’t seem calculated
> Bromo Ivory: Well Yoge, but we should not HAVE TO
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: Bromo > So we can’t chuckle a bit amoung ourselves about people who make a fool of themselves?
> Dnate Mars: If people want to talk to eachother in this room without everyone knowing about it, why would that be unallowed?
> Patroklus Murakami: top, we’re not here to laugh at people. that is rude
> Yogeswari Padar: we’re also human, bromo, and often say things to each other that are less than civil. but if a conversation is private, it’s private.
> Bromo Ivory: Yes, Pat
> Moon Adamant: i agree with Yoge
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: no I know you have the priorities right, but sometimes I just can’t stop it
> Leon Ash: I find it very strange that when given the floor to point out the cause of her concern that ThePricess? decided to leave. This doesn’t inspire trust in her version of the events?
> Bromo Ivory: Yes Yoge, but we need to strive to keep things civil and respectful
> Bromo Ivory: We seem to have difficulties on the forums in this, I will agree, but at least it is on record there
> Michel Manen: well this has gone on now for 2 hrs… maybe she has RL commitments too
> Yogeswari Padar: yes, bromo, and that’s why i suggest that private conversations should be kept that way.
> Patroklus Murakami: bromo, civil is good. but you can’t limit free speech by telling people to limit their speech
> Moon Adamant: surely, but the effort is always a process on both sides
> Bromo Ivory: I was proposing a non binding resolution
> Bromo Ivory: Or will be
> Leon Ash: *ThePrincess, not ThePricess? 🙂
> Bromo Ivory: SO you can vote it down if you like
> Bromo Ivory: or ignore it afterwards
> Patroklus Murakami: wel, a non-binding resolution is not really helpful
> Bromo Ivory: No, it is helpful as it shows the desire to be civil and polite –
> Dnate Mars: but still, people may want to talk to eachother about things unrelated to the current topic, and maybe don’t want eveyone to know
> Dnate Mars: that is why it ws in IM to start will….
> Yogeswari Padar: bromo, i think the RA could set a troubling precedent if it tries to legislate private conversations
> Bromo Ivory: and if you have no such desire – and frankly and I am surprised at the push back on saying “wouldn’t it be preferable to have us be civil”
> Patroklus Murakami: i disagree bromo. private speech is protected speech
> Moon Adamant: Bromo, i think everyone here agrees that people should be civil
> Bromo Ivory: Well, OK, you can bully and insult to your hearts content.
> Dnate Mars: that is why we can publish a chat unless everyone agrees to publish it
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: Yoge > yes dangerous even ..
> Moon Adamant: the objection, i believe, is to laudering in public
> Patroklus Murakami: back that up bromo. who has bullied who? and how?
> Dnate Mars: even this RA meeting everyone had to agree before it can be published
> Yogeswari Padar: exactly, moon
> Bromo Ivory: Well, Pat this is astonishing to me – a non binding resolution – and you guys are talking about the failure of civil rights.
> Michel Manen: pat, this is not the first time you’ve been involved in arguments in which you have hurt other people… this dog wont bark.. just try to be more civil to people you interact with and things will get better.. smiles
> Patroklus Murakami: michel, ppl in glass houses…. 🙂
> Michel Manen: smiles
> Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
> Dnate Mars: I think we have a call for a vote first
> Leon Ash: Does anyone know if ThePricess? will be back? I think it would be very useful to see this particular exchange.
> Moon Adamant: for all that matters, you could surely agree on keeping to the topic at all points 🙂
> Leon Ash: Between her and Pat. I’m very uncomfortable with the accusations floating around and would prefer to have it clarified.
> Patroklus Murakami: there is nothing to vote on. if bromo wishes to bring a resolutoin, it will have to be at the next RA meeting
> Bromo Ivory: Sure
> Dnate Mars: oh, sorry….
> Bromo Ivory: Understand
> Patroklus Murakami: before we adjourn i’d like bromo to tell us who has bullied who today and how?
> Patroklus Murakami: that accusation must be backed up or withdrawn
> Patroklus Murakami: it can’t be left to linger with no support
> Bromo Ivory: Pat – if Princess gives her permission to post the log – will you give yours?
> Bromo Ivory: But I do recall you admitted to bickering with her in IM
> Patroklus Murakami: i already have! twice
> Moon Adamant: Pat has said so
> Jon Seattle: yes, Bromo, can you back your accusations?
> Moon Adamant: meaning, given his permission
> Moon Adamant: and asked for hers
> Bromo Ivory: Look athe record of todays meeting Jon – its right there.
> Jon Seattle: No, it is not.
> Michel Manen: do we realy have nothing better to do than fight like school kids? lets just be civil to each other and move on…… sheeshhh….
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, you will have to point me to it.. as all I know is something went on
> Patroklus Murakami: back it up bromo or withdraw teh accusation
> Bromo Ivory: I mentioned that Prioncess said she was being insulted in IM – the Pat mentioned he had gotten in insults in IM as well.
> Bromo Ivory: with her
> Patroklus Murakami: and how is that evidene of bullying? are u suggesting princess was bullying me?
> Bromo Ivory: No, Pat I am saying that you guys got in fian IM fight by your admissions.
> Jon Seattle: That is not sufficent. I would like to see you back up your accusation with evidence that ThePrincess? was correct, or withdraw your accusation.
> Bromo Ivory: I don’t think we need to investigate further, but I trust it would be borne out
> Patroklus Murakami: bullying requires a bully and a victim
> Bromo Ivory: Jon – I am saying that thePrincess and Pat got into an IM fight – and I didn’t like it.
> Patroklus Murakami: who in you opinion is the bully? who the victim? and what is your evidence?
> Michel Manen: lol
> Bromo Ivory: We can discuss this for another hour if you like, but I don’t think I said anything that was not bourne out by the record.
> Michel Manen: ive had enough if this.
> Bromo Ivory: I have as well.
> Patroklus Murakami: so you withdraw the unsubstantiated claim of bullying?
> Leon Ash: Okay, so now everyone who’s accused Pat if being a bully is throwing their toys out the cot and leaving?
> Jon Seattle: Indeed
> Bromo Ivory: No – I am not accusing Pat of being a bully
> Leon Ash: Is this civil discourse?
> Moon Adamant: ok, so that stays for teh record as well
> Bromo Ivory: I am saying he got into a IM fight with Princess and she got upset
> TOPGenosse Lundquist: We don’t need a Judiciary Commission to do this case.
> Moon Adamant: that Bromo hasn’t accused Pat – or anyone – of bullying
> Bromo Ivory: I agree TOP
> Dnate Mars: Was pat ever accused of pat being the bully? I think Bromo just didn’t like what happened today, no matter who was right or wrong
> Bromo Ivory: YES!
> Bromo Ivory: Jeez!
> Patroklus Murakami: no, the implication was clear
> Nikki Maertens: May I ask the Princess if she feels she was a victom of being bullied?
> Patroklus Murakami: and teh tactc shameful
> Dnate Mars: if it was so clear, why did I miss it?
> Patroklus Murakami: *the tactic
> Bromo Ivory: For the record: I support what Dnate said.
> Bromo Ivory: This is no tactic, Pat.
> Leon Ash: yes please ThePrincess?, give us your side of the story 🙂
> Dnate Mars: I have no idea who was right either, but it was unprofessional
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, if it were not a tactic you would consent to hearing more before leveling your implied accusations
> Patroklus Murakami: how do you know dnate? did you read the IMs?
> Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to publish them
> Bromo Ivory: Jon, this is not a tactic – I am getting frustrated that people are behaving as if being civil to one another was a burdon!
> Patroklus Murakami: then you can make your mind up on teh basis of evidence
> Moon Adamant: well, ThePrincess? has definetely crashed now
> Dnate Mars: being interrupped while I had the floor was unprofessional
> Yogeswari Padar: you know what, gang? all of this is MOOT right now, until princess returns
> Jon Seattle: Bromo, then you are accusing pat of not being civil? On what basis?
> Dnate Mars: and that is all I know
> Patroklus Murakami: sorry, dnate. yes. that is true
> Yogeswari Padar: time to stop the discussion
> Bromo Ivory: I am saying the proccedings were not civil
> Moon Adamant: yes, i agree with Yoge
> Bromo Ivory: I agree.
> Patroklus Murakami: i’m sorry you were interrupted. it was difficult to deal with
> Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
> Bromo Ivory: second
> Jon Seattle: I second that
> Leon Ash agrees
> Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
> Dnate Mars: hurray!
> The meeting closed at 14:10 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: August 26, 2007

Agenda

1. Reports
– Citizenship Commission

2. Executive Branch PCA

3. Defining the CDS PCA

4. Electoral Reform
Electoral Reform PCA (CARE)
Electoral Reform PCA (CSDF)
RA Size Act (CARE)
RA Size Act (CSDF)

5. Commercial, Artistic, Recreational, and Educational Revitalisation Commission (CARER Commission) Bill

6. Re-Establish? the Judiciary Commission Bill

Transcript

Patroklus Murakami: ok. let’s begin
Patroklus Murakami: first item. reports
Jon Seattle: yes
Bromo Ivory: ok
Patroklus Murakami: bromo, could you update us on teh citizenship
commission?
Bromo Ivory: OK – we had a meeting for all comers – and got some good
inputs – lasted fomr 8.30-10am
Bromo Ivory: on last Saturday
Bromo Ivory: I posted the logs to the forums.
Bromo Ivory: Also the forum discusison has died down.
Bromo Ivory: THe next step is for me to write up the verious ideas as
best I can
Bromo Ivory: and make sure we have all inputs – then put forth a
Bromo Ivory: basic proposal
Bromo Ivory: (end)
Patroklus Murakami: any comments on the progress of the CC so far?
Sleazy Writer: Good evening everyone
Jon Seattle: Hi TOP
Yogeswari Padar: hi TOP
Patroklus Murakami waits…
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sleazy Writer: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Hi all, Michel will be along in 5
Patroklus Murakami: any thoughts at all on the citizenship commission?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m trying to find the bill to say when it is due
to report but am failing badly 🙂
Bromo Ivory: I beleive it is in 2 weeks
Bromo Ivory: mid September – I *think*
Patroklus Murakami: aah yes. 17 september is the due date for it to
finish
Pelanor Eldrich: It’ll coincide with the Petraeus report on Iraq.
I’ll get to it right after I finish writing that one. 🙂
Bromo Ivory: I plan on having a summary of the viewpoints as well as
an initial pproposal
Patroklus Murakami: well can i encourage greater input into the
process? it’s important that we get as many views as possible
represented
Bromo Ivory: Yes
Bromo Ivory: DO you have a suggestion on what more?
Pelanor Eldrich: Meeting attendance thus far been a bit light.
Patroklus Murakami: bromo. do you plan to hold another public meeting?
Bromo Ivory: We have done Forum and only 1 meeting in world
Bromo Ivory: Yes I had planned on doing that – this time later than
the first
Bromo Ivory: I was going to have 2 more meetings in world
Patroklus Murakami: ok. well, let’s to what those meetings, and the
forum discussion, add to the discussion so far
Patroklus Murakami: *let’s see
Bromo Ivory: OK, good.
Patroklus Murakami: next item. executive branch PCA
Patroklus Murakami: dnate. do i have the latest version here for us
to discuss?
Dnate Mars: Since the forum discussion died, I guess no one wants to
discuss it any more. If there is nothing else people want to talk
about, I think all that is left is a vote
Bromo Ivory: Can you go over the laterations you have made?
Bromo Ivory: *alterations
Patroklus Murakami: yes dnate, that would be helpful
Dnate Mars: Basically the only thing that this bill now changes is
that the chancellor is directly elected
Dnate Mars: it also gives the RA oversight over appointments of
mandated posistion
Beathan Vale: I have a concern about the spending power — can we
limit it to budger approved by or submitted to RA — I don’t like the
idea of a giving a single person check writing authority without
oversight or limit
Dnate Mars: That part of the bill has not changed, it is what is
currenly in effect
Dnate Mars: it states:(b) to expend monies held by the Office of the
Chancellor of CDS for the administration and management of public
facilities (including, but not limited to, roadways, signage, public
buildings, public events and similar), and to discharge any other
duties or powers of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this
Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly;
Beathan Vale: yes — but my concern is increased by what I perceive
to be an increase in the activity of the office
Pelanor Eldrich: I think the implication is that the “expended monies
held by the Office” are only those allocated by the RA approved budget.
Dnate Mars: so the only money that can be spent is what is given to
the office of the Chancellor, or appointed in other bills
Beathan Vale: I would be more comfortable with appropriating a budget
for the Chancellor to spend, — allowing th echancellor to return
with a sepcial request if more money is necessary
Beathan Vale: still a blank check on “all duties of the offi ce”
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, isn’t that the case here?
Dnate Mars: As I was reading that, that is what is stated
Beathan Vale: Pat – I don’t think so
Patroklus Murakami: the exec spends money it’s been allocated??
Beathan Vale: that depends on the definition of “moneys held by the
Chancellor”
Patroklus Murakami: i think the only monies held by the chancellor
can be ones the RA approves
Beathan Vale: If that is a limit to a RA approved budget, I don’t
have a concern — but if the Chancellor, as head of state, is deemed
to hold all moneys (as superviser of the Treasurer) I have a problem
Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see your point beathan
Jon Seattle: Ah, could the Chancellor spend donated money?
Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂
Bromo Ivory: Well I would propose that we put in the right words
Bromo Ivory: and then bring it back.
Pelanor Eldrich: I don’t honestly think any change from the status
quo was intended in this regards by Dnate.
Pelanor Eldrich: *regard
Bromo Ivory: I agree –
Bromo Ivory: thats not th eintent
Beathan Vale: I would propose to amend “held by the chancellor” to
“appropriated by the RA for use by the Chancellor”
Bromo Ivory: I would second that
Dnate Mars: I agree
Patroklus Murakami: that’s a good proposal, ty beathan
Patroklus Murakami: so dnate, that’s taken as a friendly amendment?
Dnate Mars: yes
Patroklus Murakami: ok, great 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: any more comments? or should we move to a vote?
Dnate Mars: There is also the part that requires a State of the CDS
by the chancellor in March and Oct.
Bromo Ivory: Are we adding Beathan’s changes?
Patroklus Murakami: yes bromo. they’ve been accpeted by dnate
Dnate Mars: yes, it is a friendly amendment
Bromo Ivory: OK cool
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move to the vote
Beathan Vale: second
Patroklus Murakami: pls state ‘yay’ or ‘nay’
Pelanor Eldrich: Section ii) makes it clear that a civil servant
reports only to an immediate manager. There is no head of civil service.
Beathan Vale: yay
Patroklus Murakami votes nay
Bromo Ivory: yay
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay
Jon Seattle votes nay
Leon Ash votes nay
Patroklus Murakami: ok. that falls as the 2/3 majority was not reached
ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome michel
Michel Manen: hello all
Michel Manen: sory to be late
Bromo Ivory: Hi Michel
Pelanor Eldrich: back to the drawing board…
Bromo Ivory nods
Bromo Ivory: A shame
Patroklus Murakami: next. item 3, defining the CDS PCA
Jon Seattle: Hi Michel 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we hold a discussion around the issues
for this rather than taking a vote
Patroklus Murakami: but limit it to 20 mins
Michel Manen: hi jon
Patroklus Murakami: anyone care to jump in?
Beathan Vale: I would strike “all” from the last sentence — it is a
dangling reference
Bromo Ivory: Has this been altered to address the IP issue we talked
abotu last time?
Patroklus Murakami: no bromo. still trying to find some common ground
before redrafting 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: is the IP issue the primary issue we should seek
to solve here?\
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan, we can take the final ‘all’ out 🙂
Beathan Vale: lol — important stuff 😉
Patroklus Murakami: np 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: let’s stick with the IP issue for a moment
Patroklus Murakami: one question i’ve been mulling over is whether
its’ necessary to define ‘the CDS’ in real world legal terms
Patroklus Murakami: or whether we should work with terms that
expresss our experience in SL terms
Beathan Vale: I see no necessity there — at least not yet — but it
can be done
Patroklus Murakami: there are advantages to RL non-profit status for
exampke
Patroklus Murakami: *example
Bromo Ivory: I suppose it really means what is the purpose of this
thing. What are we trying to accomplish – that should determine the
wording.
Moon Adamant: but also costs implied
Patroklus Murakami: but some significant downsides
Michel Manen: and permanent officers for the RL company
Bromo Ivory: I am not sure what we are trying to do with this amendment
Jon Seattle: Well, depending on the location it need not be expensive.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: no need for permanent officers
Michel Manen: we’ll change them every 6 months?
Moon Adamant: indeed Michel – then perhpas we’d have a duplication of
power structures?
Beathan Vale: MM — yes, why not?
Patroklus Murakami: three things bromo, as i explained on the forums
– IP, mission statement, and something else!
Michel Manen: lol
Beathan Vale: only need a permanent agent for service of process —
which hopefully will never matter
Patroklus Murakami remembers the third thing was foreign relations..
Bromo Ivory: I would say the IP is the most important thing …
though I do prefer somethign else.
Bromo Ivory: I am very wary of misison statements
Bromo Ivory: ingeneral
Michel Manen: and i of “foreing” relations
Bromo Ivory: <--- too much corporate experience Patroklus Murakami likes 'mission statements' 🙂 Michel Manen: relations with other communities etc Dnate Mars: Do we really want this as a part of the constitution? Patroklus Murakami: but then i've had very good experience of them Moon Adamant: well, i would say a definition of the CDS which is inclusive and clear is handy for all contractual things the CDS holds Moon Adamant: not only IP... but think also even... the social pact Bromo Ivory: http://www.netinsight.co.uk/portfolio/mission/missgen.asp Bromo Ivory: MIssion statement generator Moon Adamant: lol Patroklus Murakami: if we have no clear statement of what the cds is, and we all hold different ideas of what it may be in our heads, but never discuss them, isn' that a potential problem? Bromo Ivory: I think it has the potential of being used as a blunt instrument to stifle different ideas. Patroklus Murakami: ty bromo. i know that they can be awful. but they can also be very helpful if they're ones that everyone buys into Bromo Ivory: Thank goodness we don't have anyone in the room that would do that! 🙂 Dnate Mars: But do we need to define it down to a t? or can we get away with just a loose idea? Patroklus Murakami: if they truly express what we're about Bromo Ivory: Well it will only express what we think CDS is about - Patroklus Murakami feels the need for a workshop with virtual 'post it' notes... Michel Manen: smiles Moon Adamant: but Bromo, isn't taht what matters? Jon Seattle: Well, this seems pretty open to me. Can someone offer an example where this would be lmiting? a lot could be done under "a themed yet expressive community." Bromo Ivory convulses slightly at the flitting memory of a "team building" exercise more or less what Pat describved Moon Adamant: after all, we are free to associate under the UDHR Bromo Ivory: Well, Jon it either ends up meaningless or useful - and useful means it is limiting. Bromo Ivory: "useful" menaing effective Jon Seattle: Yes, but not narrowly limiting in any way that I can see. Jon Seattle: Can you offer an example? Bromo Ivory: Oh an "expressive community" means all things as long as we are expressing things. So it is so open as to mean very little in practice. Beathan Vale: Example — "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Bromo Ivory: If we were to define the CDS as a group that elects an RA for instance Bromo Ivory: Yeah Michel Manen: yes beathan 😉 smiles Moon Adamant: but isn't that inside the 'self-governed community'? Beathan Vale: Happens to be the most useless part of the US Constitution Moon Adamant: if we are self-governed, it implies that we choose how to be self-governed Beathan Vale: Moon — that depends on how we define "self" in self- governed — even Caledon is self-governed ... Patroklus Murakami: how about 'we aim to be number 1 or number 2 in every market we operate in'. that worked well as a mission statement for General electric (i think) Beathan Vale: lol Jon Seattle: Well, " purpose is to enable ownership of high-quality public, private, and open-space land" seems to be a bit more to the point. We would not it that case be an organization for selling magazine subscriptions. Patroklus Murakami: it's clear and unifying and gives a purpose to what ppl are doing Bromo Ivory: True - that works - though it did force them to jettison businesses that were profitable Bromo Ivory: And effective - and therefore limiting Patroklus Murakami: yes, every statement does cut off some options. but so does saying we want to be a democracy Jon Seattle: Indeed. Patroklus Murakami: it closes off autocracy, for example 🙂 Beathan Vale: agreed Bromo Ivory: Didn't stop the USSR Bromo Ivory: But yes Bromo Ivory: in general Patroklus Murakami: well, i said we'd limit it to 20 minutes. but thank you for the contributions Patroklus Murakami: one thing that ppl have managed to clarify for me is that we need to separate out the enravelled issues Patroklus Murakami: so let's pursue those separately on the forums Patroklus Murakami: next item. electoral reform discussion Patroklus Murakami: who would like to come in? dnate, you posted an interesting incremental proposition on the forums Patroklus Murakami: would you care to elaborate on that? Dnate Mars: oh, yes Dnate Mars: Well, it seems that people just think of it unfair that only a select few of the people get to seclect who is actually on the RA Patroklus Murakami nods Beathan Vale: Dnate — why should members of the SP have a say in who represents CARE? Dnate Mars: so, instead of basically getting rid of the current system, we tweek it so that which ever party you pick as first you get to rank the members Dnate Mars: this will allow the people that don't have a party to be able to select who within the party will be repesented by them Beathan Vale: OK — that makes sense to me Bromo Ivory nods "Good idea" Yogeswari Padar: does this - in essence - eliminate the need for party membership? like open primary voting in the US? Dnate Mars: Since, I will assume that people within the parties will vote for their own parties, that won't change Bromo Ivory: Or ... not! Beathan Vale: Yog — membership is still required to qualify for the ballot Dnate Mars: people in the party will still be the ones that set the adenda Jon Seattle: I like the idea, but I have one worry. Could this be used for strategic voting. For example a "stelth" candidate? Yogeswari Padar: okay, so only those who want to run for office would have to identify with a faction Dnate Mars: and are the ones that can run for RA seats Patroklus Murakami: yoge, i think faction members woudl still select the candidates. and tehy would still need to be faction members to stand for election Bromo Ivory: Would Dnate be willing to write up a proposed amendment? Yogeswari Padar: just like open primaries in the US - candidates are the only ones that need to be enrolled Jon Seattle: Say everyone in Party A puts party B first, but votes in a person who supports party A's agenda. Yogeswari Padar: i understand, pat, thanks for the clarification Dnate Mars: I can, and will have it posted this week... I meant ot write it up for this week, but it didn't happen Michel Manen: this is not the US -parties here dont have millions of members- jsut 6 or 8 - Q^ at most in CAREs case Michel Manen: 16 Yogeswari Padar: i know, michel, i'm just trying to put the proposal in some kind of context Beathan Vale: Can we table this discussion until we have the 3rd proposal? Michel Manen: weell its the worng context Yogeswari Padar: thank you Bromo Ivory: I would second the tabling. Michel Manen: np 🙂 Jon Seattle: yes, a good idea. Dnate Mars: the ranking of the parties still doesn't change, but the selection of the members changes just slightly Patroklus Murakami favours tabling until we have the proposal on the table Patroklus Murakami: so to speak Jon Seattle: Yes, lets table Patroklus Murakami: 'table' means different things in the Uk and US 🙂 Yogeswari Padar: thank you, pat Patroklus Murakami: ok. let's move on Jon Seattle: Lets schedule this for further discussion when we get the third proposal. Patroklus Murakami: item 5. the CARER commission Patroklus Murakami: anyone care to begin? this has been discussed before but we didn't achieve a conclusion Beathan Vale: I object to the wording of paragraph 7 — which imposes a duty on the RA "to adopt" legislation in each of the defined areas -- I also object to the 4 areas as being both over-inclusive and under-inclusive Bromo Ivory: I would propose to change the name from CARER to "Revitilization" Patroklus Murakami: ty bromo Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could youi elaborate on your issues with the remit? Jon Seattle: What part would NGOs play in this? Not everythng should be the domain of government. Patroklus Murakami: hi brian Brian Livingston: Hi all, sory I'm late Jon Seattle: Hi brian 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: glad you could make it Bromo Ivory: HI Brian! ThePrincess? Parisi: hello brian Sleazy Writer: hi Brian 🙂 Leon Ash: Hi Brian Patroklus Murakami: we have a full house. hurrah! Bromo Ivory: Hey could we re-vote on the Executive before we break? Bromo Ivory: Since Brian is here? ThePrincess? Parisi: yes Michel Manen: indeed Brian Livingston: Could I ask for a quick votign recap? Patroklus Murakami: no bromo. we can't revote. but brian can cast his vote now or later Jon Seattle: Bromo, what would that acheive? Patroklus Murakami: the vote has been taken Michel Manen: 3 3 brian Pelanor Eldrich: Puts it on the record. Bromo Ivory: Oh I just would like ot get Brians vote fo rthe record, thats all - I don't care how we do it. Dnate Mars: I think they just want his vote on record Michel Manen: yes Patroklus Murakami: that's fine. brian's vote will be a matter of record Patroklus Murakami: but we have taken that item and are now on other agenda items Michel Manen: well brian should be allowed to vote at this session Pelanor Eldrich: I think the main CDS objection BTW is the "populist" election of Chancellor. If I understand correctly. Beathan Vale: Let's move on Brian Livingston will vote via the forumTo be honest, I need to see what the evolution fo teh debate was before I can make my final dcision Michel Manen: lol Patroklus Murakami: ty brian 🙂 Brian Livingston: And ammendments and so on Bromo Ivory: lol Patroklus Murakami: i respect your wishes Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded. Beathan Vale: exactly right, BL Patroklus Murakami: would someone wish to continue discussion of the 'revitalisation (formerly CARER) commission' bill Patroklus Murakami: we were discussing remit, and the role of ngos Beathan Vale: is this proposal redundant with the "Minister of Culture" Bromo Ivory: This bill is to establish a comission to find out what the citizens would want Pelanor Eldrich: I don't think this freezes out NGOs I think it mandates that the gov't interact with them. Bromo Ivory: Yes Leon Ash: Not particlurarly, it is late over here 🙂 Michel Manen: and how they could get involved and participate Moon Adamant: but the models of interation are already set, at least in teh Guild's case Beathan Vale: Bromo — then why define the agenda so completely -- Moon Adamant: can't comment about MoCA, since i don't recall their charter Pelanor Eldrich: true, we have a guild charter. I'm unclear of the cases of the CDSTA and the Museum. Bromo Ivory: Well it defines the time period, and that the comisison will present a report. Beathan Vale: and — I think that the Minister of Culture position is too new to assess — so it is premature to form a commission to discuss areas with the Minister's remit Leon Ash: I am sorry members, but I have to call it a night Michel Manen: this is no way conflicts with the Guild Bromo Ivory: And that the Chancellor will chair the comission Jon Seattle: I would worry that "interact" could turn into attempts to direct, I would want to avoid that. Jon Seattle: Night Leon 🙂 Beathan Vale: within the remit I mean Moon Adamant: Michel, i think it duplicates the Guild Bromo Ivory: Good night Leon Leon Ash: Have a good evening everyone 🙂 Sleazy Writer: good night ThePrincess? Parisi: night lion Beathan Vale: Moon — yes, in large part Patroklus Murakami: bye leon. ty for coming 🙂 Michel Manen: well , we have a differnt view then 😉 smiles Pelanor Eldrich: I feel the Guld already handles community education. Moon Adamant: you must see that all citizens can join the Guild and raise points for discussion Dnate Mars: The NGOs were set up to avoid the goverment involvment Pelanor Eldrich: I feel the CDSTA handles business and commericial dev. Dnate Mars: if you force the government on them, they really aren't NGOs anymore Pelanor Eldrich: The PIO handles Marketing and Tourism Jon Seattle agrees with Dnate Bromo Ivory: Except this isn't forcing the governemnt on them ... the Bill is prettyy minimal - Pelanor Eldrich: and the Museam handles Arts etc. Moon Adamant: if the citizens aren't already doing so, why do you think they would join your comission? (speaking always for teh Guild) Dnate Mars: and the guild handles the sim planning and education Pelanor Eldrich: So I wonder if this just isn't a case of doing charters or maybe just handing out some grants. Bromo Ivory: Well couldn't the comission determine that? Dnate Mars: it is not so much what people want, it is that people don't wnat to host or come to events Bromo Ivory: and then the RA approves it or not. Michel Manen: because thi commission will actively go out htere and contact citizens ans ask for their input and opinions and needs and listen to them and take advantage of their experience and skills Dnate Mars: we have events, we had a clothing class, 1 person showed up Pelanor Eldrich: 🙁 Michel Manen: which goes to show how bad we are at communicating Michel Manen: and building a community Patroklus Murakami: hmm. we've seen a fairly weak response to the call for input on citizenship (no offense intended). do we really have the resources for another commission at the same time? Moon Adamant: hmmm, isn't the decision of a citizen joing the guild a sufficient active attitude already? Beathan Vale: MM — no, it shows that we prioritize actities here with activies in RL — and RL often wins out Bromo Ivory: You could say that Beathan Pelanor Eldrich: I kinda see this as a way of the RA handing out grants and maybe getting the occasional NGO activity report. Michel Manen: well BV - other communties manage to do much more than we do Bromo Ivory: But it is hard to dothat without finding out for sure - reduce speculaiton to fact. Jon Seattle: Yes, I think some activities do get a larger degree of participation. Moon Adamant: but the NGOs report at RA request Bromo Ivory: And the comission ins't replacing anything. Moon Adamant: teh Guild for instance, is generally present for reporting Moon Adamant: no, Bromo, it is duplicating Moon Adamant: duplicating work Bromo Ivory: When things aren't going well, it makes sense to go out there and figureout what is wrong and what is right. Michel Manen: well i dont see that Moon -sorry Patroklus Murakami: well, not *all* NGOs 🙂 The CDS Traders is totally non-governmental for example Bromo Ivory: The NGO's aren't doing that at all, Moon Patroklus Murakami: if the RA insisted on the CDSTA coming to a meeting, i'd boycott it on principle! LOL 🙂 Bromo Ivory: LOL! Bromo Ivory: And what about this proposal would do that? Pelanor Eldrich: Like I said, I kinda see this as: hmm we need more business. Let's set aside some budget for biz grants and see if the CDSTA wants it. If they are apply and are granted they can report once a month to the RA and tell us what they're up to. Beathan Vale: I don't see the utility of talking about having activites here — if we want activities, we should arrange them Moon Adamant: that is surely an idea, pel - the report being condition to teh grant Beathan Vale: This proposal does not do that — a proposal to create a civic holiday calendar would do so Pelanor Eldrich: That's how it works in the US. I've worked for many a non-profit NGO. Dnate Mars: Well, we also have a PIO for once, maybe before we start yet another commition, we wait and see what they do? Jon Seattle: I can't see that centralized decision making will impove the quality of the decisons made by the NGOs. I really don't think the government necessarily has better ideas. Patroklus Murakami: good point dnate 🙂 ty Michel Manen: the key question is how do we get more people invloved and participating? what is tyour proposal on this , moon? Beathan Vale: if CARE thinks the Guild is ineffective, it should propose legislation to reform athe guild, not legislation to talk- talk-talk Bromo Ivory shkaes head Michel Manen: we never said the Guild is ineffective Pelanor Eldrich: That's a good point Jon. It's opt in. Moon Adamant: Michel, i believe that people must be free to decide getting involved or not Pelanor Eldrich: right Brian Livingston agrees with Moon Michel Manen: lol well we dont give them much of a reason to get involved right now Moon 🙂 Bromo Ivory: And no one is forcing anyone to do anything now or later Moon Adamant: they know that the Guild has an open door, and the ammount of work being put together is large Patroklus Murakami: hmm. that seesm unfair michel Pelanor Eldrich: I think this could be a way to offer some gov't resources (cash) to NGOs in the form of grants while maintaining a strict NGO separation. Bromo Ivory: But it would be nice to find out what we could do to have better participation here instead if having things in other places in SL Michel Manen: is it? look at our attendance records - 1 attendee for the t shirt course.. Moon Adamant: at each meeting, we get volunteers for putting up more and different work Patroklus Murakami: well, MM there are many other kinds of involvement Michel Manen: well the Guild is not the issue here Dnate Mars: Why don't we want 3 months and see what happens, we have a new sim, a new PIO, and a bunch of events coming up Pelanor Eldrich: Right the guild is doing fine... Patroklus Murakami: i don't think you are being fair about the level of community involvement here Beathan Vale: well — MM — we are not a SL skills college — we are a self-governed communit y-- low attendance in an activity outside our primary project is not an indication of failure Patroklus Murakami: this meeting is pretty well attended, for example Dnate Mars: if by then we think we need to look into it again, why don't we. Th erest of the commitions will be done and people would be more liely to join a new one Beathan Vale: Pat — exactly Michel Manen: lol well what is our primary project? big can of worms there 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: much better than in previous terms i would guess Beathan Vale: MM — t-shirt classes ain't in it — whatever it is Moon Adamant: maybe some people just do NOT want to do things? Michel Manen: well i disagree Michel Manen: it not the tshort part- its the community and participative part that counts Yogeswari Padar: this is a problem all over SL, not just in the CDS Patroklus Murakami: could i suggest that the proposers take this away to reconsider and redraft? Bromo Ivory: I will withdraw this and resubmit it after citizenship is complete Moon Adamant: surely... but that for you, me, and everyone here present Michel Manen: not in Roma.. not in Caledon.. i could go on Pelanor Eldrich: We're a democratic self governing community in Second Life. Bromo Ivory: Clearly we are not ready for this Michel Manen: smiles Patroklus Murakami: with some tweaking, and consideration of timing issues. it may well be worthh returning to Bromo Ivory: I agree Moon Adamant: i'd suggest that Rose's questions she put at people in Anzere are very revealing re: this subject Patroklus Murakami: ok. let's move to item 6 Bromo Ivory: and I am hopeful that we want to examine ourselves and see if we can do more for our citizenry and boost participation Moon Adamant: or better, the answers she got Bromo Ivory: at that time Pelanor Eldrich: It's a gentle prodding to a, b, and c Patroklus Murakami: who would care to introduce the bill to re- establish the judiciary commission? Beathan Vale: the defined scope is awful — begs all the questions -- Bromo Ivory: I will Patroklus Murakami: ty bromo Bromo Ivory: But I would like to have Michel speak to this Bromo Ivory: if that is OK Patroklus Murakami: sure 🙂 Bromo Ivory: MIchel ... take it away Bromo Ivory: 🙂 Michel Manen: Well i think this is a very delicate and important matter, as we have seen last term Michel Manen: and i would like to address this not at the tail end of a meeting but next time Michel Manen: so if you all agree to table until next time.. Beathan Vale: I move to table until the next term of the RA Beathan Vale: next elected term — not merely next meeting Patroklus Murakami: well, depending on the agenda, you may end up with the tail end again... Jon Seattle: Seconds 😀 Michel Manen: well pat you out together the agenda Patroklus Murakami: but, if everyone's happy to table it.... Bromo Ivory: Table until next meeting? Michel Manen: yes lol Beathan Vale: no — table until next elected term Michel Manen: hahaha Bromo Ivory: Yes until next meeting Jon Seattle: I prefer Beathan's proposal. Patroklus Murakami: very funny beathan Brian Livingston: The vote was proposed... Beathan Vale: can we vote my proposal first Brian Livingston: And seconded... Patroklus Murakami: now, now 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: on the motion ot table until next week, please vote Patroklus Murakami: *to Bromo Ivory: yay Beathan Vale: nay Jon Seattle: nay Brian Livingston: nay Patroklus Murakami votes aye ThePrincess? Parisi: yay Patroklus Murakami: a tie. how unfortunate! Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂 Bromo Ivory: If only the Chancellor could break it .... Michel Manen: hahah Dnate Mars: lol Beathan Vale: vote on lang-term table — see if we get a clear result Michel Manen: i was going to say Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂 Dnate Mars: I don't want to Patroklus Murakami: i'm afraid it needs a vote in favour to table it so it can't be Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂 Bromo Ivory: Zombie bill Patroklus Murakami: so we can discuss it now or.... Patroklus Murakami: not! Pelanor Eldrich: I have to say this looks more and more like RL democracy this term... Beathan Vale: move to table until next elected term of the RA Jon Seattle: I second that again. Patroklus Murakami: oh my, beathan. you are a one! Patroklus Murakami: well, we can vote to table this particular bill until next term Bromo Ivory: Withdraw Bromo Ivory: Resubmit in a few weeks Patroklus Murakami: but, of course, if it were to be put in slightly different words Beathan Vale: can't withdraw with a motion on the table Pelanor Eldrich: registers his disappointment at he idea of abdicating RA responsibility. Patroklus Murakami: it could still be submitted to a meeting 🙂 Michel Manen: do we want to do this in a hurry right now when people must leave? Patroklus Murakami: i'm going to allow bromo to withdraw his proposal Patroklus Murakami: and resubmit at this discretion Michel Manen: ty Bromo Ivory: Yes Patroklus Murakami: that concludes our business for today Bromo Ivory: Clearly this stirs up a lot of bad blood Dnate Mars: uh Patroklus Murakami: any final comments before we adjourn? Dnate Mars: what about the Chancellor questions? Patroklus Murakami: so sorry dnate Dnate Mars: this is the last meeting of the month Patroklus Murakami: my fault entirely Patroklus Murakami: i didn't register this was the last meeting of the month Patroklus Murakami: dnate and i agreed via email that the last RA meetingof the month Patroklus Murakami: would we 'chancellor meeting' Dnate Mars: and being as I can't make the next one, It needs to be done today Patroklus Murakami: as mandated by the constitution Pelanor Eldrich: What are the specific CSDF objections to the Chancellor PCA? And, at least *vote* on the establishment of the Judiciary Commission, not shuffle off the heavy lifting until next term. Patroklus Murakami: do we have any questions for dnate in his official capacity? Dnate Mars: first, can I say a few words? Patroklus Murakami: please do 🙂 Bromo Ivory: How will we advertise this in the future? Brian Livingston: Dante in the platz with a sandwichboard sign? Brian Livingston: Dnate* Patroklus Murakami: bromo, it will be on the agenda in future. this was an oversight on my part Dnate Mars: First of all, I would like to thank the great job that Rose is doing as PIO Patroklus Murakami listens to dnate Dnate Mars: we will be having events again, which is a great thing Jon Seattle listens to Dnate also Moon Adamant: cheers for Rose! Bromo Ivory: Hooray! Dnate Mars: Second, I have appointed Pel as the new system admin for the web portal Bromo Ivory noted the full schedule Rose put together for today Beathan Vale: yes — excellent work Dnate Mars: he will be handling most of the work involved from the chancellor's office Moon Adamant: congrats Pel 🙂 Jon Seattle: yay Pel! Dnate Mars: and lastly, I have appointed Michel as my Deputy. He will be acting as an advisor to me Pelanor Eldrich: Working very closely with Jon and the Guild. Pelanor Eldrich: er Web coop Dnate Mars: (end) Moon Adamant: oooh congrats as well Michel Michel Manen: Thanks 🙂 Beathan Vale: Dante — what is Michel's portfolio? Dnate Mars: He is acting to me as a sounding board, along with what he has tried to do with change already in the CDS, I felt he was a good pick to act in this regard Michel Manen: I will be working with Dnate and discuss all issues pertaining to the Excutive before Dnate makes final decisions Beathan Vale: ok — thanks Dnate Mars: he has give a lot of good advice already on the Exec bill that I have been working on Patroklus Murakami: dnate. what progress have you made with the establishment of a government question hour? Michel Manen: thank you dnate Dnate Mars: That has been lacking, because I am still missing times that people can be availible for the meeting Moon Adamant: hmmm something i don't understand though Moon Adamant: is deputy a public office? Dnate Mars: I hope to have it ready to go by the 2nd meeting next month Michel Manen: yes Patroklus Murakami: who do youi need information from dnate? i think you have my infor nad that of most RA members Beathan Vale: it is not a RA created office — but it is an office the Chancellor can establish Dnate Mars: but not all yet and the SC Dnate Mars: I am sorry that I have fallen behind on that Dnate Mars: it is on my todo list this week Patroklus Murakami: ok. if we could establish it soon, it would be good Dnate Mars: any more questions for me? Patroklus Murakami only appears to be typing Patroklus Murakami: any other questions? Bromo Ivory: Not form me Dnate Mars: anyone here want to ask me anything? Bromo Ivory: Oh, this snuck up on us Brian Livingston: I'm good 🙂 Bromo Ivory: so ... what will you do to promote this in the future? Dnate Mars: Events are the main thing I am focusing on this trem Dnate Mars: also, I want to use the infohub that we have as a place we can get the word out about events. There are always a few people hanging out there, but we need to update the area a little Dnate Mars: WB pat Sleazy Writer: My question to Dnate: Please don't postpone the Gov't question hour, this is week 4 Patroklus Murakami: sorry about that Michel Manen: We wil both work on this to get it off the ground ASAP Jaen DeCuir: hola Michel Manen: hola jaen Patroklus Murakami: ok, any further questions for dnate? Dnate Mars: as always, if anyone ever has any questions for me, please feel free to IM or e-mail me Gallego Ibanez: hola Gallego Ibanez: excuse jaen im working Gallego Ibanez: i cant talk now Jaen DeCuir: y aqui que pasa Patroklus Murakami: dnate. could you post your announcements here on the forums? Patroklus Murakami: about appointments etc? Dnate Mars: I was thinking about that, but where? Moon Adamant: Executive thread? Jaen DeCuir: ok Patroklus Murakami: there's a section for executive announcements Dnate Mars: oh? Patroklus Murakami: i'll check to see if you have posting perms Patroklus Murakami has been trying to relinquish admin controls on the boards but to no avail... Dnate Mars: yes, I will post them then. Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂 Dnate Mars: just need access 😉 Patroklus Murakami: if there's nothing else, i propose we adjourn ThePrincess? Parisi: amen Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: 🙂 Dnate Mars: remember, last meeting every month, unless otherwise stated! Sleazy Writer: OK, have a pleasant evening everyone. Patroklus Murakami: ty everbody. we are adjourned Moon Adamant: thanks Pat and all 🙂 Bromo Ivory: See you guys! The meeting closed at 13:50 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 02, 2007

Meeting on 2007-09-02
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: bromo has sent his apologies
Patroklus Murakami: Let’s begin
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: item 1 -reports
Patroklus Murakami: I had hoped that bromo could give a report on the progress of teh citizenship commission. but he can’t be here today
Patroklus Murakami: has anyone else attended and able to give an account of the story so far?
Patroklus Murakami: /notes we’ve lost theprincess once more
Sleazy Writer: I don’t think there has been a meeting in the past week, — right?
Patroklus Murakami notes
Patroklus Murakami: good point sleazy 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: so not much more to report
Patroklus Murakami: i’d encourage everyone to attend the next meeting of the commission on sat 8 sept at a time i can’t recall in inspiration park, colonia nova
Sleazy Writer mumbles: that a lot is going on on the forum — so I hope everyone will have his/her say there.
Patroklus Murakami: indeed. there’s also the forum debate
Sleazy Writer: 10 am SLT
Patroklus Murakami: ty sleazy 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ok, item 2 IP rights/ head of state
Patroklus Murakami: this was originally bound up with the ‘Defining the CDS’ PCA
Beathan Vale: before we move to vote items — can we approve Bromo’s 7-day vote request?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, bromo’s request is approved
Jon Seattle: wb Princess
Patroklus Murakami: there has been some good forum discussionn on how we might solve the IP rights issue
Patroklus Murakami: i think it was michel who suggested something like a ‘board’ structure of the LRA, Deand and Chancellor
Beathan Vale: I proposed something like that structure too
Jon Seattle: Yes, I wonder what the differences are?
Patroklus Murakami: one advantage of this is that the board could select one of it’s members to act on behalf of the CDS in, for example, agreeing contracts for builds etc
Patroklus Murakami: this seems to be the basis on which we could resolve this issue
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we coudl discuss this now and see how close we are to a consensus
Patroklus Murakami: ?
Beathan Vale: well — having a board might not be enough — we might need some legal person capable of holding property
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, would you like to say what you were thinking of?
Beathan Vale: this could be created informally — a partnership of persons — or formally, a nonprofit or somesuch
Beathan Vale: I think that we should create a nonprofit — and have the board be the board of the nonprofit corp
Patroklus Murakami: aah, i’m taling SL-only. whether this needs a RL nonprofit or not is another question
Patroklus Murakami: *talking
Beathan Vale: the problem is the IP property is RL property — and the owner must be a RL entity capable of owning property
Beathan Vale: so I don’t think we can parse SL from RL in this case
Patroklus Murakami: why must that be the case beathan?
Sleazy Writer wonders why it needs to be about ‘IP property’ and not just: ‘licence to use under conditions XXX only’. WHy is the latter not sufficient?
Moon Adamant: i am sorry everyone, must run off – have a good meeting! 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: bye moon 🙂
Sleazy Writer: too bad – bye 🙂
Beathan Vale: well — if we ignore the issue — we will be implied, as a matter of law, to be creating a RL partnership anyway
Yogeswari Padar: good bye moon
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Leon Ash: Bye Moon
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye moon
Sleazy Writer still wonders about the thing from 10 lines ago
Patroklus Murakami: i’m still not clear why RL nonprofit status is necessary
Jon Seattle: Sleazy, that is IP property
Jon Seattle: and liciencing
Sleazy Writer: yes, but why is a licence to use not enough?
Beathan Vale: Pat — it isn’t — it is just a possible solution
Jon Seattle: Sleazy, that is by in large what we are talking about.
Beathan Vale: .I think that a license would also be legally sufficient
Jon Seattle: But licience to whom?
Begin forwarded message:
Sleazy Writer: Beathan > if a licence is enough, does that mean we wouldn’t need a legal person?
Patroklus Murakami: the contract is between ‘Joe Builder’ and ‘Head of State’ on behalf of the CDS surely that’s enough?
Sleazy Writer: only a ‘CDS person’
Beathan Vale: but it must be a permanenet license — and again, the license must be to some entity that is capable of owning property — because a license is a RL property interest
Sleazy Writer: Why didn’t you say so when the MoCA guys made agreements ‘on behalf ‘ of MoCA? 🙂
Jon Seattle: Welcome Brian 🙂
Sleazy Writer: (Without a legal person)
Patroklus Murakami: is an avatar not capable of holding the property right?
Brian Livingston: Hi, sorry for my tardines. Traffic was awful.
Jon Seattle: Pat, there are RL use rights.
Beathan Vale: Pat — that might be sufficient — but it has risks — it does not create a real owenrship right in the CDS — only in the person — so we are relying on the good faith of the licensee person
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: hi brian, welcome?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, welcome!
Sleazy Writer: hi Brian 🙂
Yogeswari Padar: lol brian
Patroklus Murakami: the reason i’m questioning you beathan is that i’d prefer to keep this ‘inworld’ if at all possible. if we can’t resolve this issue without recourse to RL i wonder about the feasibility of our project 🙂
Brian Livingston: Hehe
Sleazy Writer: Beathan: Software licences talking about ‘the end user’, don’t describe a particular legal person .. just ‘the end user’.
Sleazy Writer: afaik
Sleazy Writer: ‘Whoever uses it must abide to: blah blah”
Beathan Vale: the end user in such case is always a legal person — an indivual or a purchasing corp or partnership
Jon Seattle: Pat, why would having CDS be a RL entity make our project any less feasible?
Jon Seattle: The CDS is already a RL association.
Beathan Vale: Jon — yes — I think it would qualify as a partnership or somesuch
Brian Livingston: Hmm
Patroklus Murakami: as bromo mighht say ‘eek, the rise of the augmentationists!’ 🙂
Beathan Vale: lol
Patroklus Murakami: if we can make our agreements etc internally consistent within our virtual world, that’s preferable in my opinion
Sleazy Writer: If I make my house available with a “for public CDS land only” licence, and Dnate uses it in the 3rd sim, why does that need an extra legal entity?
Jon Seattle: Well, I’ve never see the CDS as a role-playing sim. (Though we might do that from time to time.)
Patroklus Murakami: you don’t have to RP to be ‘immersed’ though, do you?
Beathan Vale: Sleazy — it might not — but there are questions as to whether “the CDS” can own anything
Jon Seattle: Sleazy, you may well do so, but it does not protect you from someone selling your house.
Sleazy Writer: why are irrevocable, transferrable (etc) licenses not enough?
Jon Seattle: Sleazy, how do you protect those rights?
Begin forwarded message:
Sleazy Writer: This can be in a license: see CC .. how doyou think M$ protects against re-selling of software?
Beathan Vale: Sleazy — becasue you can’t give a license to something that can’t own property =-=- for instance, a dog can’t own a license
Beathan Vale: brb
Sleazy Writer: My license would be for anyone I sold it to for 1 L$, but use would be restricted to “public CDS land”
Sleazy Writer: i mean: taylor it in a crative way .. it’s possible .. LL license it definitely taylored to their needs
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. let’s just follow the idea through for a moment. assuming we need ‘legal personality’ for the CDS in the real world, what woudl that entail?
Jon Seattle: Sleazy, it would not mean a thing unless it was licenced by a RL entity.
Sleazy Writer: Jon > I am a RL legal entity
Patroklus Murakami: we would need to register the CDS with a RL jurisdiction
Patroklus Murakami: wb beathan 🙂
Sleazy Writer: wb
Jon Seattle: Pat, actually in the US registration is optional
Brian Livingston: Hehe, Trying to sway the CSDF Beathan?
Jon Seattle: But in this case it would be a good idea.
Patroklus Murakami: and our board (however defined) would need to declare their RL identities
Beathan Vale: Pat – no — we would be deemed a partnership or somesuch — but we would have less control over over the details of our association and such
Beathan Vale: generally only the registered agent and original incorporators would have to declare their RL identities
Leon Ash: Does anyone really know the legals behind this? There seems to be a lot of speculation about it all?
Beathan Vale: Leon — I am a lawyer
Patroklus Murakami: okay, that’s intriguing
Leon Ash: Beathen, what is the ‘reality’ then?
Jon Seattle: Justice also had said that we would be considered an association, another RL Lawyer.
Patroklus Murakami: so we could get away with just the ‘founders’ making their identities known
Beathan Vale: yes — we would be — but our rights and duties would be imposed on us by stattue — and I think that we would be better off fixing the details themselves
Beathan Vale: Pat — and one permanent registered agent
Beathan Vale: Jon — also — the international nature of our membership would make the issue more complicated — if not defined in some formal association
Patroklus Murakami: i think the CDS looked at ‘non-profit’ status some time back (in order to get discounts on sims i think) and concluded it was too costly and complicated – and we woudln’t get eh discount! woudl this cost us much?
Beathan Vale: but — I don’t think this is a “do-or-die” thing — not at all
Jon Seattle: Pat, I think that former research was in a very different context.
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think that analysis only looked at whether the benefit form LL would be enough justification — I don’t think IP issues were involved
Patroklus Murakami: yes, you’re right. IP issues weren’t considered then
Leon Ash: Beathan, does it matter which jurisdication this takes place under?
Begin forwarded message:
Beathan Vale: Leon — yes — it would matter — both because differnt law would apply and because of cost issues
Beathan Vale: but — I think as a practical matter we should select a jurisdiction whee we can get: 1. free legal work and 2. a willing resident registered agent
Beathan Vale: I could do both in WA State — but others might fo the same (Rose in Texas, for instance)
Patroklus Murakami: could you explain the special position of the ‘registered agent’?
Beathan Vale: in US jurisdictions, the gegistered agent is a known person who is a point of contact for the govt and for service of legal papers
Sleazy Writer: Would that give you equal power to the others form the ‘board’/trio
Beathan Vale: service on the registered agent is service on the entity
Beathan Vale: the registered agent is frequently not a baord memeber — and frequently has no power in running the corporation
Patroklus Murakami: so, in our situation – sudane 🙂
Beathan Vale: in fact, many companies hire “registered agent companies” to provide outside services
Beathan Vale: PAt — it does not apply in our situation — it would only apply if we were formally incorporated
Beathan Vale: right norw — I think we are are probably a partnership of all CDS citizens — and service on any citizen might be enough — which is kind of scary
Beathan Vale: of course — the idea that we could be sued is already scary — and, I think, unlikely
Patroklus Murakami: i assume we are subject to CA law first and foremost. any differnces there that you’re aware of?
Beathan Vale: yes — there are some difference — I am not licensed in CA, but the transaction attorney in my firm is
Patroklus Murakami: where did Bragg and Stroker Serpentine file their cases?
Brian Livingston: Bragg was in PA orginially, if I recall correctly
Beathan Vale: I don’t think that we are necessarily subject to CA law — just because LL is hqed there should not do it
Beathan Vale: LL can be sured anywhere because it does business everywhere
Beathan Vale: sued I mean
Beathan Vale: we can probably be sued anywhere one of our citizens lives, at the moment — although incorporation might cahnge that
Patroklus Murakami: so stroker’s case is probably more meaningful for us, in that he’s sueing another SL avatar?
Beathan Vale: I might be filing my own test case on that one — for theft of $50 from me by a cash-stripping object
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll be interested to hear how that works out
Sleazy Writer: interesting 🙂 too bad you lost the money ..
Beathan Vale: but I might not — fairly busy — and it is only $50 — although the Lindens were useless when I file dthe reprot, including IM transcripts admitting the theft
Beathan Vale:

shrug

Sleazy Writer: admitting? /me looks stupified!
Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps we should draw the discussion ot a close?
Beathan Vale: yes — it is stupifying — I am really down on the Lindens atm
Beathan Vale: lol
Begin forwarded message:
Beathan Vale: yes — move to continue matter for further discussion and research
Patroklus Murakami: ty for your contributions, that was very illuminating (at least for me)
Jon Seattle: Indeed
Patroklus Murakami: i think we are near consensus on the ‘SL/CDDS side’ of things
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: so we should continue that discussion on the forums and develop a proposal
Beathan Vale: second
Patroklus Murakami: this other issue we have covered in more detail today does probably need more research
Patroklus Murakami: but i think we’ve got further than we ever have before on this
Patroklus Murakami: let’s continue the discussion as beathan suggests, agreed?
Brian Livingston: aye
Jon Seattle: Yes, please.
Beathan Vale: aye
Leon Ash: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: next. item 3. mission statement
Patroklus Murakami: this is the other component of hte ‘defining the cds’ PCA
Patroklus Murakami: now, despite bromo’s aversion to ‘mission statements’ 🙂 i feel we’re close to agreement here
Sleazy Writer: has something bene proposed?
Patroklus Murakami: shall we try to resolve this on the forums?
Patroklus Murakami: no sleazy, but we’re almost there
Jon Seattle: yes, if we can.
Patroklus Murakami: we just need to go through a few drafts to get it right
Patroklus Murakami: an iterative process
Sleazy Writer: Is it something general and easily acceptable, or is it something more detailed that will help the CDS move in a certain direction?
Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have comments they want to make now?
Beathan Vale: mostly general and acceptable
Sleazy Writer: P > Not now
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i’ll take that as my cue to move on 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: item 4 was carried over from last week
Sleazy Writer: J > ty for the notecard, i c
Patroklus Murakami: we were hoping to have Dnate’s electoral reform proposal to consider
Patroklus Murakami: but i guess he’s been to busy
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we carry this over for a further week
Patroklus Murakami: any objections?
Jon Seattle: That makes sense.
Brian Livingston: *nods*
Brian Livingston: No objections here
Patroklus Murakami: let’s do that then
Patroklus Murakami: we’ve come to the end of today’s agennda!
Brian Livingston: Wow… that’s gtta bea record
Sleazy Writer: with Judiciary bills!
Sleazy Writer: without!
Jon Seattle: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we adjourn and use the extra hour productively in whatever manner people choose:)
Brian Livingston: Seconded
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Jon Seattle: I agree with the first part of that. Does it have to be productive?
Beathan Vale: aye — and bye
Beathan Vale: lol
Patroklus Murakami: LOL! no jon, as you wish
Sleazy Writer: ty + bye
Leon Ash: Night everyone
Brian Livingston: heh
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye now
Jon Seattle: ‘night and thanks 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty everyone, we are adjourned
Brian Livingston: Bye all 🙂
The meeting closed at 13:5 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 09, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 165, 41)

Meeting on 2007-09-09
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: well i am concerend with having a discussion on the issues in the agenda without the Citizenship commission Chair and 4 out of 7 RA members absent and only one non-offficial citizen present
Beathan Vale: I see no reason not to have a discussion
Dnate Mars: We can discuss at any time
Patroklus Murakami: read the RA meeting procedures michel. no reason not to have a discussion
Jon Seattle: Yes, discussion is allowed 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll leave the citizenship commission to one side
Dnate Mars: there just won’t be any voting today
Michel Manen: well sure but not one that would initiate a vote
Patroklus Murakami: we can discuss at a future RA meeting
Michel Manen: ok
Michel Manen: as long as the voting is triggered and sent to the forums …
Michel Manen: is *nOT *
Patroklus Murakami: there’s one item on the agenda today – electoral reform
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: we were waiting for dnate’s proposal in order to have all three on the agenda for discussion
Dnate Mars: (sorry)
Beathan Vale: MM — I’m not prepared to vote on this issue anyway …
Patroklus Murakami: dnate, would you like to introduce your proposal for discussion?
Michel Manen: great 🙂
Dnate Mars: Well, as I posted on the forums, I don’t thing going to the STV is really a good idea
Dnate Mars: the biggest thing I heard this last election was that people that weren’t in a faction were unable to select exactly who was going to fill the RA seats in the party they voted for
Dnate Mars: basically, in many cases, the people that got to actually be on the RA were selected by just a few people
Dnate Mars: so, in order to correct this, I propose a change that will allow the vote to rank the people within the party that is selected as a first place vote
Dnate Mars: Another complaint that I have heard in the last few elections is that people didn’t want to have to rank all the partyies
Dnate Mars: so, I also included a change that allows a voter to only vote for the parties they want, and to give what would be a 0 point vote to multiple parties
Dnate Mars: (done)
Beathan Vale: I like the first proposal — but not the second
Beathan Vale: I think that there is a benfit in forcing voters to chose “lesser of two or more evils” — as well as picking a favored party
Patroklus Murakami: pls carry on beathan
Michel Manen: i have a question – what is the current CSDF position on this? it seems to be changing as thee wond blows….
Michel Manen: wind
Beathan Vale: if we simply allow a rejection vote — then we will not be able to determine grades of dislike — only grades of like
Dnate Mars: It was a very tough call for me to make, but I thought that people shouldn’t be forced to vote for parties they despise
Beathan Vale: I think this is more a matter of education — voting a faction 3rd is not necessarily a vote for the party — may be a vote against\
Dnate Mars: But, at the same time, I agree with you Beathan
Beathan Vale: perhaps, if this is a concern — we should give each citizens 4 positive and 4 negative votes — and let them vote as they see fit — allowing ranking of negatives and positive
Beathan Vale: but that seems too complicated
Jon Seattle: This changes the role of the election from that of both an internal party election and a CDS election, to just a CDS election. Its a subtile but important change.
Dnate Mars: We don’t want to over do it
Patroklus Murakami: “forcing voters to choose between teh lesser of two evils” that doesn’t sound very democratic to me. why not give voters the choice? sounds like you dont’ trust them beathan
Beathan Vale: I think that the basic borda count works — and works well — for initial vote — although vote for person is a good incremental change
Beathan Vale: Pat — its not that I don’t trust them — it’s that I want to know electoral information I would not know if a flat rejection were possible
Michel Manen: thats not what elections are for beathan- take a poll to get that info
Beathan Vale: a vote is not unfree just because it is constrained — all votes other than write-ins are constrained by the ballot
Patroklus Murakami: but you would force voters to choose parties they would otherwise have not chosen
Beathan Vale: MM — a vote is the ultimate poll
Patroklus Murakami: that’s hardly democratic
Michel Manen: but it hasa very different purposes from a poll – that of forming a decision-capable, democratically elected assembly
Beathan Vale: Pat — it is democratic — people get to chose — they just have bounded choice — every democracy offers boudned choice
Dnate Mars: You do make a really good point Beathan, and I don’t believe that it is any less democratic
Patroklus Murakami: what a bizarre argument beathan!
Beathan Vale: MM — we can form such an assembly in many different ways — the current system is one — if all we want is to have a system that works, let’s keep what we have
Patroklus Murakami: you force voters to choose parties they don’t want to support, ‘because it’s good for them’?
Beathan Vale: Pat — no
Michel Manen: LOL
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a very patrician view of electoral politics
Dnate Mars: well, it does force people to understand what all the parties stand for
Michel Manen: one might even say paternalistic ;_
Patroklus Murakami: surely the option to vote ‘no’ is as important as the choice to vote ‘yes’?
Dnate Mars: it is the only want to be able to rank all of them is to understand what they all stand for
Beathan Vale: I think that the borda count tells us not only which parties the voters like hte most, but which they dislike the most — perhaps I should not have said “forced” — but rather should have said that there is information from the ranking which is important is assessing true voter preference
Beathan Vale: which faction a voter ranks last is as informative as which faction a voter ranks first
Dnate Mars: Very true
Patroklus Murakami: but beathan, you are ‘forcing’ them to vote for a party they would not willingly choose
Michel Manen: well again… that can be ver informative indeed and can be found out in opinion pols – the lection is not just an information providing exercise, but a government -enabling one
Beathan Vale: if we are worried about the way the numbers work, we can jsut subtract one from our current vote total — first =2; second =1′ third =o; forth = -1
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, that’s not the same thing at all
Beathan Vale: then a person can put a party third without voting for it
Patroklus Murakami: it would not allow ppl with genuine multiparty prefernces to make a valid vote
Dnate Mars: I disagree MM, an election does tell the elected people what the people in gerneral want
Dnate Mars: and at the same time, it will tell them what they don’t wnat
Patroklus Murakami: the choice is to rank all of the parties (as some may wish to) or not. the electoral system needs to cater for both
Michel Manen: what is the current CSDF position? is it still STV?
Jon Seattle: Michel, what is your point!
Michel Manen: i have no point
Patroklus Murakami: MM. if we had a quorum, you’d find out 🙂
Michel Manen: is that so hard to answer?
Michel Manen: i am just asking what your position is
Dnate Mars: why does it really matter? We are discussing what is best for the CDS, right?
Beathan Vale: ha — truth at last ! 😉
Jon Seattle: Indeed Dnate.
Michel Manen: well sure – and we want to know where the CSDF stands on this
Michel Manen: is that an unreasonable question? smiles
Beathan Vale: MM — the CSDF has made a proposal and have not withdrawn it
Beathan Vale: so — yes, it is an unreasonable (or at least an unreasoned) question
Michel Manen: sure – but are they still supporting it? smiles
Patroklus Murakami: rather than play ‘guess the position’, perhaps we could discuss the proposal?
Michel Manen: given forum remarks from the LRA one may doubt it
Michel Manen: sure
Beathan Vale: MM — that is called seeking compromise — a skill I wish CARE would learn from the CSDF
Patroklus Murakami: indeed beathan 🙂
Michel Manen: but i still wannt to know whether the CSDF members still support their own position as drafted and introduced 😉
Patroklus Murakami yawns
Dnate Mars: This is going no where, I am out of here
Michel Manen: pillow Pat?
Michel Manen: or double expresso>?
Jon Seattle: I have a concern, actually a small one, about this bill. My concern is that it could be used by one party to intefeer in the internal deicions of another party about candidates.
Patroklus Murakami: as i’ve said on the forums
Dnate Mars: I will continue on the forums
Patroklus Murakami: i think that dnate’s proposal is a good compromise
Beathan Vale: PAt — as do I — with reservations as to the need for change at all
Patroklus Murakami: between full-blooded STV, and our current position
Jon Seattle: Yes, I tend to agree.. though I would like some changes.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s clear there are substantial reservations among many citizens about a change to STV
Beathan Vale: Jon — perhaps, but not likely — rather, I think it is more likely to require that the factions consider the will of independent votes — which is a good thing
Beathan Vale: Jon — especially independent voters inclined the support the faction
Patroklus Murakami: dnate’s proposal would take us forward and deal with some of the reasons for us putting forward STV
Michel Manen: ok. thanks for clearing up where you and the CSDF currently stands- which is very far away from your draft bill
Beathan Vale: MM — that is not the CSDF position — that is the acceptable compromise — a very different thing
Beathan Vale: you seem to be making a political virtue of unreasonable pigheadedness
Michel Manen: i love you too beathn 🙂
Sleazy Writer: give him the rose then
Michel Manen: smiles for him i have pink one 🙂
Beathan Vale: sadly — I cna’t usually smell roses — all I smell is the decay — fitting actually in our political system
Patroklus Murakami: well, unless there are any other comments on the proposals under discussion…
Michel Manen: i don t deny that its a compromise- all i do is point out that this compromise is worlds away from the CSDF original position as introduced not long ago
Beathan Vale: MM – -that is called reaching the same goal by a compromise path
Beathan Vale: it is the destination, not the journey — that matters
Jon Seattle: Michel, I don’t think we see it that way. It seems to us to meet some of our goals.
Michel Manen: ah thats a differnt matter beathan
Michel Manen: the same goal is certainly not reached 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the CSDF has always made a virtue of compromise in the best interests of the CDS
Beathan Vale: hear hear
Patroklus Murakami: we did that for three terms with a DPU government
Patroklus Murakami: and we continue in the same spirit
Michel Manen: ah yes.. the invertebrate gambit.. smiles
Patroklus Murakami: we’re prepared to talk to anyone and listen to their ideas
Patroklus Murakami: and we’ve been remarkably successful, from opposition, in achieving our goals
Beathan Vale: MM — well, CARE seems a bit snakelike — venomous and all backbone
Michel Manen: grins
Patroklus Murakami: but we do not wish to railroad our opinions through, and we can’t as a minority party
Patroklus Murakami: so we seek compromise
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: watch and learn michel 🙂
Michel Manen: how does this acheive the same goals as STV PAt?
Beathan Vale: so — can we table these proposals for further discussion — perhaps a drafting of a compromise combined bill?
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a step forward michel. it takes us on from where we are now
Patroklus Murakami: that’s a good thing
Michel Manen: ah wait- CARE’s proposal also includes a porposal on the LRA’s election
Patroklus Murakami: it doesn’t have to be ‘revolution or bust’
Beathan Vale: MM — I like that idea — but I think that a secret ballot for internal RA positions is undemocratic — all RA actions should be open to public scrutiny
Beathan Vale: that includes selection of LRA
Michel Manen: well it will be made public after the votes are taken
Patroklus Murakami: that rider on the CARE bill is unacceptable to us
Michel Manen: lol how shocking
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not really connected with electoral reform
Patroklus Murakami: and it’s a poor idea
Michel Manen: yes it is:)
Beathan Vale: agree with Pat as to disconnect
Michel Manen: lol
Patroklus Murakami: the current system is preferable. it gives us an assured answer that corresponds to teh public vote
Patroklus Murakami: the lead member of teh lead faction becomes LRA
Beathan Vale: PAt — not necessarily — it allows a minority party to lead the RA just because it has a plurality
Patroklus Murakami: the cARE proposal would have us disappear into smoke-filled rooms for a week or two
Beathan Vale: that does not really coincide ot public vote
Patroklus Murakami: to cook up a deal
Patroklus Murakami: like the chancellor election currently
Beathan Vale: Pat — that part is true — that is the part I don’t like about the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: the RA would be rudderless for at least a week
Patroklus Murakami: what if the parties are unable to form an agreement?
Patroklus Murakami: your proposal would stall the RA from the outset
Beathan Vale: hmmm ….
Beathan Vale: good point
Patroklus Murakami: it’s clear you understand the proposal is weak and lacks substance
Patroklus Murakami: it’s why you attached it to a bill you know we care about – electoral reform
Patroklus Murakami: and made it your price for CARE support
Patroklus Murakami: unsurprisingly, we didn’t find that attractive
Beathan Vale: well — I have to leave soon – can we call it a day?
Beathan Vale: I have a brief due on Tuesday
Patroklus Murakami: just a moment beathan
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess is back online
Patroklus Murakami: i’m asking if she can join us
Patroklus Murakami: but, it would appear not
Patroklus Murakami: bromo, brian and leon have sent their apologies so I expect we will not reach a quorum
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess is also unavoidably detained
Patroklus Murakami: i propose we adjourn
Beathan Vale: second
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Jon Seattle: Aye, les adjourn
Jon Seattle: *lets
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami: ok, we are adjourned
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 16, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (197, 185, 178)

Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded
Patroklus Murakami: notecards for today’s meeting are in the box
Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: the wooden box i should say
Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve had one apology for absence from bromo ivory and a request for 7-day voting
Patroklus Murakami: so we will do that 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i hope leon will join us but i suggest we begin
Patroklus Murakami: we have one item on the agenda – electoral reform
Patroklus Murakami: i had hoped to get reports on the progress of the citizenship commission and on prep for the 3rd sim
Patroklus Murakami: but perhaps we should schedule that for next time and then ppl have time to prepare?
Dnate Mars: We are moving along nicely for the 3rd sim, just a little behind where we had hoped
Patroklus Murakami: does that sound sensislbe?
Dnate Mars: yes
Patroklus Murakami: oh, we lost theprincess 🙁
Dnate Mars: oh, can I make an announcement before we start?
Dnate Mars: (she is rebooting)
Patroklus Murakami: pls do dnate
Patroklus Murakami: let’s give her a moment
Dnate Mars: Just to remind everyone octoberfest starts THIS Friday!
Dnate Mars: Also, Tanoujin Milestone is the new Caretaker of the sims
Patroklus Murakami: congrats tan 🙂
Dnate Mars: that is all
Tanoujin Milestone: i want to thank for the confidence
Brian Livingston: cool! Congrats Tan!
Yogeswari Padar: congratulations, tan!
Tanoujin Milestone: ty 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: let’s give theprincess another minute or two to rejoin us
Dnate Mars: brb
Patroklus Murakami: wb theprincess
Patroklus Murakami: we waited for u 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
Dnate Mars: k
Patroklus Murakami: we’re about to consider item 1 electoral reform
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to make clear, for the CSDF, that we withdraw our proposal
Patroklus Murakami: we intend to support dnate’s compromise text
Beathan Vale: So it is between CARE and the chancellor?
Patroklus Murakami: those are teh two proposals left
Beathan Vale: an Wu Wei of course
Dnate Mars: It is just my idea, not from the exec office
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, ‘do nothing’ is the third option
Beathan Vale: Wu wei means “do nothing”
Patroklus Murakami: at our last meeting we seemed to have some agreement on dnate’s proposal but the qn of ranking all the parties was still contested
Patroklus Murakami: what are ppl’s views on that issue now?
Beathan Vale: I hae come around and support the full legislation
Dnate Mars: I for one will go either way on this part
Patroklus Murakami: ok. i was looking at beathan when i asked teh qn!
Dnate Mars: 😉
Patroklus Murakami: so that’s clear now
Patroklus Murakami: i propose we vote on the CARE proposal
Dnate Mars: thePrincess, anyquestions?
Beathan Vale: has the transcript been posted so thePrincess can see the last discussion?
Jon Seattle: I second the bill so we can vote.
Patroklus Murakami: not to my knowledge. tho it has been requested, twice 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: its ok
Beathan Vale: and Brian wasn’t there either
Beathan Vale: Brian — are you ready on this issue?
Patroklus Murakami: we’re voting on whether to take the vote on teh CARE bill now. i vote aye
Beathan Vale: yes on taking a vote (no on proposal)
Jon Seattle: yes on the vote (only)
Patroklus Murakami waits for theprincess, brian to cast their vote
Brian Livingston: Sorry, nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Brian Livingston: Oh, on voting, err, I vote aye to vote
Brian Livingston: nay for the actual vote
Patroklus Murakami: ok. we can proceed to the vote on the CARE bill. ty brian 🙂
Beathan Vale: nay
Patroklus Murakami: i vote nay to the bill
Brian Livingston: nay on the bill
Jon Seattle: votes no on the CARE bill
Dnate Mars: don’t we only need a motion to vote and a second?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Jon Seattle: Dnate, we had that. I seconded.
Patroklus Murakami: dnate, we had that a moment ago
Beathan Vale: are we holding a 7 day vote for Bromo and Leon?
Patroklus Murakami: the bill falls
Patroklus Murakami: tho we are holding a 7 day vote for bromo and leon
Dnate Mars: sorry, I am confused with who is voting for voting and voting on the bill itself
Beathan Vale: unanimonous vote to vote — 4 to 1 against on CARE billl
Patroklus Murakami: the bill has more than 3 votes against so cannot pass as it requires a constl amendment
Patroklus Murakami: so, on to dnate’s bill
Dnate Mars: but a 7 day vote is required, for the record
Patroklus Murakami: we had a good discussion on this last week
Patroklus Murakami: but some were unable to make the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: nods
Patroklus Murakami: and, sadly, the transcript has not been posted to the wiki yet
Brian Livingston: On a side note, were any votes held for bills?
Brian Livingston: l;ast week
Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have any qns or comments on this?
Beathan Vale: no — no quaroum
Dnate Mars: no
Brian Livingston: Ok, thanks
Beathan Vale: quorum even
Patroklus Murakami: no brian, no votes 🙂
Beathan Vale: and even the right to discuss was challenged from the gallery 😉
Brian Livingston: I’ve haven’t any questions
Beathan Vale: ThePrincess? — any questions? want to review the transcript?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Beathan Vale: does anyone have a trasncript — I dont
Dnate Mars: I don’t either… can you post it now Pat?
Dnate Mars: or at least notecard it?
Patroklus Murakami: i can make one and put it in the notecard dispenser
Patroklus Murakami: but it’s quite long
Patroklus Murakami: we can’t really wait for everyone to read it!
Beathan Vale: I move to call for a 7 day vote on this — everyone can vote after reviewing transcrupt
Brian Livingston: seconded
Dnate Mars: ok, but the ones that want to vote now can, correct
Dnate Mars: ?
Patroklus Murakami: k, it’s in teh box
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, one small issue
Jon Seattle: I think everything is seven day.. we can register our vote here, but others can vote via the forum.
Patroklus Murakami: 7-day voting is for those absent. not those here
Beathan Vale: right – I agree
Patroklus Murakami: so, we at least must cast our votes in this meeting
Patroklus Murakami: i’m ready to vote on this. is everyone else?
Beathan Vale: yes — second
Jon Seattle: I second
Jon Seattle: (third 😀 )
Patroklus Murakami: brian, theprincess, are u ready to vote on dnaate’s proposal?
Brian Livingston: Indeed
Brian Livingston: I was just waitign for the vote sicne it was seconded already :p
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: let’s vote then 🙂
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami: on dnate’s proposed electoral reform bill
Jon Seattle: Is this the vote to vote, or the vote on the proposal?
Patroklus Murakami votes aye (to the bill jon)
Brian Livingston: Aye for the bill
Jon Seattle: yes (on the bill)
Beathan Vale: aye on the bill
Patroklus Murakami waits for theprincess to vote
Beathan Vale: the Princess can vote afer reviewing last weeks transcript, yes?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i need to do that
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
Beathan Vale: wonders if thePrincess will continue to thank me after she reads what I said about CARE last week — lol
Dnate Mars: heh
Jon Seattle: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: no but i can dealiwth you later
Beathan Vale: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: you laugh
Brian Livingston suggests hidign in the old guild building space beneath the platz
Beathan Vale: humor is my favorite defense mechanism
ThePrincess? Parisi: ill find him
Dnate Mars: so, I guess we have to wait for the last 3 votes to come in
Beathan Vale: yep
Dnate Mars: but, does theprincess have to vote now, since she is present?
Patroklus Murakami: that depends on which way theprincess votes now dnate 🙂
Beathan Vale: no
Dnate Mars: or does it just have to be a quarum vote?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, she does beathan, dnate. i explained that a moment ago
Brian Livingston: That’s a loophole I’d assume, becuase if she, or any of us were to drop offline during or right before a vote, then we’d be entitled to the 7 day
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i need to read this
Beathan Vale: I thought my motion on that point carried
Patroklus Murakami: the 7 day vote is for absent members
ThePrincess? Parisi: and yes i can crash at any momnet
ThePrincess? Parisi: its a bit laggy
Brian Livingston: Doesn’t that just encourage absenteeism if someone wants to delay the vote?
Patroklus Murakami: it is very laggy
ThePrincess? Parisi: dont make me vote i didnt read the thing
Beathan Vale: ah — procedural problem — proposal made, seconded — but vote on taken
Dnate Mars: can she abstain for now?
Beathan Vale: under rules — later votes are ineffective because a pending motion had not been resolved
Patroklus Murakami: any vote cast in teh meeting is final dnate
Beathan Vale: technically, we should go back — vote on motion on allowing 7day vote for people present — then revote
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, beathan but that’s not allowed
ThePrincess? Parisi: fine i vote nay
Dnate Mars: it was unfair that the transcripts where not availibel before the meeting
Brian Livingston: So question… if ThePrincess? just disconnected now, accidently or not, before the vote is cast, what then?
Beathan Vale: Well — it would be allowed in every RL Congress in thew world
Patroklus Murakami: the 7-day vote is for aabsenst members not present ones
Dnate Mars: she voted nay
Beathan Vale: Pat — but their was a procedural motion on the floow
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just voted
Patroklus Murakami: in any case. we now have theprincess’ vote
Beathan Vale:

shurg

OK — moot
Brian Livingston: But it is a procedural issue we may want to consider for the future
Patroklus Murakami: so this goes to 7-days now
Patroklus Murakami: we have RA meeting procedures on the wiki. but it may be wise to reconsider them for isssues such as this
Patroklus Murakami: we have no further items on teh agenda today. i move we adjourn
Beathan Vale: secpond
Jon Seattle: I second
Dnate Mars: what about the RA size bills?
Patroklus Murakami: the csdf one is withdrawn along with teh electoral reform PCA
Dnate Mars: are we going to table the CARE one?
Patroklus Murakami: coudl we?
Dnate Mars: if that is the vote
Patroklus Murakami: i woudl prefer to. it’s had virtually no discussion
Dnate Mars: actually, all you need is a motion and a second
Brian Livingston: Motion to table teh CARE RA size bill pending further discussion
Jon Seattle: I move to table it
Jon Seattle: well, second 😀
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Dnate Mars: there you go, tabled
Beathan Vale: nay to table
Patroklus Murakami: adjourn?
Jon Seattle: sure.
Beathan Vale:

shrug

OK — aye to adjourn
Dnate Mars: great, off I go to grandmothers house!
Yogeswari Padar: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: i know a nice wolf
Dnate Mars: lol
Dnate Mars: bye
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
Tanoujin Milestone: bye 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty evreyone. we are adjourned
The meeting closed at 12:51 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 23, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 165, 41)

Meeting on 2007-09-23
Jon Seattle: Please click the roman wine jar for the adgenda, and the recorder to give your permission for the transcript
Jon Seattle: Two items on the agenda are last minute, and so we will just begin discussion this meeting.
Bromo Ivory: OK
Jon Seattle: Pat, as you know is away.
Bromo Ivory nods
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Jon Seattle: Hi Bromo, Princess, Tan, Moon, and Brian
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello jon
Bromo Ivory: HI Jon
Jon Seattle: I see beathan approach, so lets wait a moment.
Bromo Ivory: OK
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Beathan Vale: sorry Brian
Jon Seattle: Hi Beathan
Moon Adamant: hi beathan 🙂
Jon Seattle: Please click on the wine jar for the agenda, click the recorder, etc.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: The first item on the adgenda is the revised citizen commission report. Bromo, would you like to begin by presenting that.
Jon Seattle: Oh, and do you have a notecard version, or the URL?
Bromo Ivory: I don’t have a notecard version – so hereis the URL for anyone to read it –
Bromo Ivory: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1373
Bromo Ivory: The report says more or less what was done to gather information, what the issues were and the relative support for the various ideas.
ThePrincess? Parisi: leon is online
Bromo Ivory: We had a forum discussion as well as 2 in world meetings at different times
Bromo Ivory: the different times were to catch as many differnt time zones as we could – one was early on a Saturday and the other was a bit later
Bromo Ivory: Did everyone get the URL?
Bromo Ivory: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1373
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Leon Ash: Hi Everyone. Sorry for being late. Was downloading latest update
Bromo Ivory: IN short – what was found is that there was no unanymity on reform ideas, there were more peopel for some sort of reform than those that would not like to see reform.
Jon Seattle: Hi Leon,
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Bromo Ivory: The most popular in number of people supporting was the citizenship fee with no land reuqirmeent – but that also was the most polarizing and the one raising the most fears –
Jon Seattle: Leon, Please click on the wine jar for the agenda, and the recorder 🙂
Leon Ash: That was exactly what I was looking for thanks Jon. Already clicked recorder
Bromo Ivory: Less radical ideas were to have some sort of residency requirement of some kind, or some sort of record fo service
Bromo Ivory: And the other one was that a group reform allowing gorups of 4 or less peopel to buy land and get citizenship together
Bromo Ivory: I beleive it will be possible to have a form of reform that ec=ncompasses the desire of the populace as well as allay the fears detailed in the report.
Bromo Ivory: eom
Bromo Ivory: (Looks like we lost Princess to a crash)
Jon Seattle: Bromo, how would you like to see us procreed procedurally with this report? what shoud we do next?
Bromo Ivory: Well I beleive the RA needs to accept or reject the report
Bromo Ivory: And then we should have a RA group try to draft a inter-faction reform bill
Bromo Ivory: I would like to have one with 1 representative form each faction
Bromo Ivory: My personal feeling on the matter
Jon Seattle: Is there a need to discuss the acceptance / rejection before proceeding to the vote. Anyone want to adress that?
Bromo Ivory: Prioncess crashed
Jon Seattle: Is she one her way back?
Bromo Ivory: I dot’ know.
Leon Ash: Hi Sudane
Bromo Ivory: We shoiuld move on
Sudane Erato: hi… sorry
Bromo Ivory: though I would liek the courtesy fo a 7 day vote for her if she is experienceing technical difficulties
Bromo Ivory: Ah here hshe is
Jon Seattle: Bromo, please move that we vote
Bromo Ivory: I move we vote
Leon Ash: WB ThePrincess? 🙂
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: I second the motion
ThePrincess? Parisi: lost my cnnectino sorry
Jon Seattle: Everyone in favor of accepting the report, please say Aye.
Bromo Ivory: Aye
Jon Seattle: wb ThePrincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: oops thank you jon
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Jon Seattle: anyone else? Shall we take a moment to review the report?
Beathan Vale: abstain
Jon Seattle: I found the report to be much improved, but I still disagree with the conclusion relative to the proceeding, so I will abstain as well.
Brian Livingston: I am not prepared to vote on this yet, so I am requestign a 7 day vote so I can properly read and analyze it before accepting or rejecting it
Jon Seattle: I accept Brian’s request.
Beathan Vale: I have reservations about the report — and disagree with the numbers, which do no coincide with my own review — but my reservations are not enough to merit rejection — but too much to merit a vote to accept
Jon Seattle: Any objections to seven day?
Bromo Ivory: None
Beathan Vale: It is useful information — and can be used as such regardless of a formal acceptance
Jon Seattle: Good. And, I agree that it is very useful.
Jon Seattle: Are we ready to go on to the next item? I would like to introduce it if so.
Leon Ash: Please do
Bromo Ivory nods
Jon Seattle: I added this to the agenda at the last moment. It is, however, a very important decision. I suggest we not vote on it this week, but I would like to get the discussion underway.
Jon Seattle: The New Guild has requested that we answer the three questions listed, in order to proceed with the new sim planning
Jon Seattle: The question really, is should this new sim work like our other sims, that is with plots sold to individuals, or under a new model suggested by Sudane that has only NGOs and public functions using the land. I wonder if Sudane might give us a summary on the first quesiton of the three.
Sudane Erato: well/…
Sudane Erato: my intention in offering the proposal
Sudane Erato: was to address a considerable disagreement which was occurring over the land use
Sudane Erato: and to try and re-focus the discussion on the “benefit” of the new sim to the existing community
Sudane Erato: i think it did that
Sudane Erato: i simply offerred the proposal to help… i am surely not committed to it… i am committeed to whatever the community decides
Jon Seattle: Well, your proposal does have both advantages and costs for the whole community, so apart from dealing with disagreements in the Guild, what are some of those?
Jon Seattle: After all our real goal here has to be to decide if this is a good idea for the body of citizens
Sudane Erato: the advantage is that it emphasizes that the sim is whiolly for the benefit of the entire community… it would not be a living space for anyone
Sudane Erato: it would also i feel adhere most closely to the origibnal spirit of the proposal by Rose, which i theink everyone acknowledges was only a sketch
Sudane Erato: the disadbantages is that of course, everyone would have to share in its cost
Sudane Erato: and i think i tried to show how that might be experienced as not as severe as it seemed to be
Sudane Erato: but
Sudane Erato: what it actually would be is still unclear
Sudane Erato: i.e…. how much peoples fees would rise
Jon Seattle: You had an estimate. Also if we went this way, what are some of the ways the land might be used?
Sudane Erato: my suggestion was that the land be used for any of the proposed public uses… for NGO’s, such as the monastery or the MoCA
Sudane Erato: and for community sponsored activities, like sports
Sudane Erato: but most importantly…
Sudane Erato: the sims binds together the community in a way we have talked about since CN was first created
Sudane Erato: many people have expressed about that
Jon Seattle: And I would not connects the sims with the great distance in height in a way that could not be done by planing CN next to NFS.
Jon Seattle: *note
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: exactly
Bromo Ivory: I do ahve a question
Jon Seattle: Bromo, go ahead 🙂
Moon Adamant: i would like to address the RA too
Bromo Ivory: I voted on the original proposal, and I did not envision making it 100% public land.
Bromo Ivory: So … would we need to go back to the people since hte direction was polled form the people initially?
Bromo Ivory: Especially since this would raise tier fees a fair amount
Bromo Ivory: (eom)
Jon Seattle: I think the RA would have to decide if we should go ahead with such a poll. Moon, you have the floor.
Moon Adamant: thank you
Moon Adamant: The New Guild is, as you know, a NGO whose action relies in technical support to the community
Moon Adamant: among other things
Moon Adamant: we have started this sim process, by mandate of the RA, six months ago or close
Moon Adamant: it started with a popular consultation, as referred, and the Guild has been developing teh winning proposal
Moon Adamant: so it’s been a clear process
Moon Adamant: we feel though now that new data that wasn’t envisaged at the beginning of teh process has been now presented
Moon Adamant: namely, the possibility that the community sponsors a sim which will not be for sale
Moon Adamant: and thus we are asking the RA to clarify our current course
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: by the three questions proposed and which were voted at the Guild’s meeting
Sudane Erato: i agree
Moon Adamant: hopefully i was clear?
Jon Seattle: Moon, I think so.
Sudane Erato: while i did make the proposal, it was in response to a bitter and divisie dispute about the use of the new sim
Sudane Erato: and i agree with Moon that the RA must make this decision
Moon Adamant: indeed
Bromo Ivory: I have a quick staement – and I am looking at the forums right nwo
Moon Adamant: mind though that since we have been able to construct a proposal, i feel, which can be a comprmise between the several ideas
Moon Adamant: possibly it will need more detailing still – but i don’t see people arguing anymore, but see them proposing modifications to teh proposal
Jon Seattle: Well, my hope is that the RA will act for the good of the community. There are two questions that we must resolve: 1. do we want to consider this option at all, that is do we see the beifits here, and 2. can we afford those benifits, that is will the communuty be willing to pay the higher fees for the project.
Beathan Vale: does anyone know the status of our current sales — do we have prospective citizens waiting for an open parcel to purchase — or do we have unsold properties because there is no interst?
Jon Seattle: Sudane?
ThePrincess? Parisi: its very difficult to buy in these sims
Bromo Ivory: 1 CN parcel is currently for sale, no NFS parcels are currently posted for sale
Moon Adamant: in all cases, whatever is teh decision of teh RA, the New Guild will continue providing the technical assistance
Beathan Vale: also — should we use the new sim to test some theory of citizenship — such as citizenship by membership in NGO or “adopt a plot”?
Sudane Erato: sorry
Bromo Ivory: Beathan – that is an interesting idea.
Sudane Erato: IMs
ThePrincess? Parisi: adopt a plot?
Beathan Vale: test it in a single sim — rather than opening it up — to see if it causes or solves problems — without exposing us completely
Beathan Vale: adopt a plot is Bromo’s proposal
ThePrincess? Parisi: i know
Beathan Vale: allowing us to use public plots as the basis for citizenship
Sudane Erato: there essentially no land right now
Beathan Vale: kk
Sudane Erato: althou that may change
Beathan Vale: that strikes me as a poblem
Beathan Vale: we need to make sure that we keep the immigration door open
Bromo Ivory: Sudane – how many deliquent properties will we have do you think?
Beathan Vale: under the current system — that means that we have to keep expanding residential plots
Sudane Erato: many 10
Jon Seattle: Are these plots that will be resold in the near future most likey?
Sudane Erato: i don’t know, hoestly
Sudane Erato: it will take a while to sort out with the new payment system
Bromo Ivory: (Sorry for diverting the discussion)
Jon Seattle: So, as beathan points out, one disadvantage to this proposal is that it means a hold on our population expansion for a while. I wonder if there are also in-between alternatives? Can we, for example, put half the sim under this system? Or would that be too difficult?
Sudane Erato: Jon, there is also not a great deal of new demand
Sudane Erato: i don;t think we are turning anyone away
Bromo Ivory: Yes, I htink trying some novel methods of citizenship and landholding in the new SIm given the situation
Sudane Erato: only existing residents who are frustrated from expanding
Bromo Ivory: Well when Asha was selling her land, she had been contacted by 2 people
Jon Seattle: Ah, I see.
Bromo Ivory: none were CDS citizens – anecdote for certain, but one example
Jon Seattle: I would like to do a quick non-binding poll if we can (pleae feel free to say undecided). Is this proposal of a public / NGO sim desireable apart from financial considerations? Just to see if we have the support to ask about the finances.
Jon Seattle: Remember this is not a bill.
Beathan Vale: is that desirable in general — or desirable in the current context of limited available residential lots for sale?
Jon Seattle: I think it is desireable given that we can come up with good uses for the land. Ah, Beathan, in all contexts other than fees.
Beathan Vale: I think we could turn part of the land into a “SL destination resort” — which might increase publicity and traffic in the CDS
Beathan Vale: I know that we are getting a lot of interest from folks passing our Monastery build on the ML
Jon Seattle: Brian, any comments?
Bromo Ivory: I do think that we would have a larger population if we would have more ways to allow it – though
Bromo Ivory: (sorry brian)
Jon Seattle: (sorry Bromo, was going around the room 😀 )
Bromo Ivory waits for tuen
Brian Livingston: In general, it is a interesting idea and solution to the issue of build density and such, but I do not think that residents will be willing to take on a 75% increase in land fees
Beathan Vale: I could set up a franchulate in one of my ML sims to increase residential land — especially if I had Guild help to finish some stalled projects
Moon Adamant: Beathan, we can discuss that 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bromo?
Bromo Ivory: I think we started the process by consulting our citizenry, and this is enough of a departure with large financial as well as positive implications, that I beleive we would have to affirm this change the same way
Bromo Ivory: another poll.
Jon Seattle: Yes, I would agree with that. The Princess?
Beathan Vale: I agree with Bromo — although I am concerned that that would slow down the build process — making all options far less desirable
Bromo Ivory: Yes, I agree that is the down side.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree that we need to have anohter poll make sure we are doing the right thing tho
Brian Livingston nods
Moon Adamant: i would perhaps ask to what point would that new poll would be binding?
ThePrincess? Parisi: the increas e in fees concens me and io really think ppl want to live on sims
ThePrincess? Parisi: and that if CNwas not residential at all no one would be here ever
Brian Livingston: By the same token, if we could manage to combine the public sim proposal with perhaps selling a portion of the available land (or leasing it) to NGOs to help reduce the impact on fees, it might still acheive the same end results, but with less impact on the reisdents financially
Jon Seattle: Well, it seems to me that there is enough support in this room to go on with considering the project. My next question though is the finances, Sudane you posted an initial estimate. What would it require to make that estimate more firm? it seems to me we would have to have that information if we were to do a poll.
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry but what about residential rentals
Brian Livingston: Rentals aren’t currently permitted under the covenents and in general woudl raise all kings of issues regarding citizenship, I’d assume
Brian Livingston: kinds*
Jon Seattle: Princess, we are now considering if we will have residental plots at all. Later on, if we deicide to sell plots, we can discuss if they can be rented.
Jon Seattle: I think Sudane may be afk.
Jon Seattle wants just a moment later
Beathan Vale: brb
Sudane Erato: sorry… 🙁
Sudane Erato: impossible afternoon
Sudane Erato: get a better estimate
Sudane Erato: that will depend entirely on how much land the NGO’s are willing to pay tier on
Jon Seattle: Well, lets ask the NGOs for an estimate and if they are interested
Beathan Vale: back
Sudane Erato: we know the monastery is interested
Sudane Erato: but not how much
Brian Livingston: Or run three sets of figures, 1 with 25% of land owned by NGOs, 1 with 50% and 1 with 0% owned?
Jon Seattle: Arria posted her interest in 2048 m2 I beleive
Brian Livingston: ALthough that is a lot of work :/
Sudane Erato: Brian, I could do that, yes
Moon Adamant: monastery will need 1/15 of teh sim
Sudane Erato: no… not so much
Moon Adamant: that is, around 1000 prims
Moon Adamant: resources here, not land
Beathan Vale: I think it might be above 1000 prims atm — hard to tell though with the sky squatters in the build zone
Sudane Erato: everyone needs more prims than they say they will need
Jon Seattle: Yes, of course.
Moon Adamant: ehehe true 🙂
Jon Seattle: Even if double that, it is a small fraction of the sim.
Brian Livingston: does that include furnishings and other similar stuff?
Brian Livingston: true
Moon Adamant: i think so
Jon Seattle: We should approach the MoCA and Guild for their suggestions.
Sudane Erato: it may be a small fraction, but please remember
Moon Adamant: The Guild currently holds two plots
Sudane Erato: that it was already the consensus
Brian Livingston: That sould free up soem room for more residential/commercial plots in NFS
Moon Adamant: one in Cn and another in NFS (the schule)
Sudane Erato: that the price of land be equalized between the 3 sims
Moon Adamant: if we remove teh schule from NFS, that area will need a redevelopment plan
Moon Adamant: we can take care of that, of course
Brian Livingston: Just for reference sake, how much land is that Schule on?
Moon Adamant: uh, i actually don’t know
Sudane Erato: two lagish city parcels
Brian Livingston: Okee, np, I was just curious as to how much wer were talkign about
Sudane Erato: largish
Moon Adamant: but it has more prims than the alloted?
Sudane Erato: maybe 400 sq meters
Sudane Erato: it shares in the City prim bank
Sudane Erato: like the Kirche
Moon Adamant: that’s what i thought
Brian Livingston: And MoCA, if interested, is on probably 500-600 m2?
Sudane Erato: or less, yes
Sudane Erato: and it too shares in the prim bank
Jon Seattle: So we will need to know how large a plot it would need to be self-sustaining. Lets do this, lets ask the Guild to conduct a survey of the NGOs for their potential land needs in the new sim.
Jon Seattle: And ask Sudane for a more accurate estimate (or conditional estimates)
Bromo Ivory: Would it make sense to have a public suburb?
Sudane Erato: kk
Beathan Vale: Bromo — yes — but the slope makes that difficult for this sim
Jon Seattle: Does anyone second that proposal?
Beathan Vale: second\
Jon Seattle: The proposal is to ask the Guild to conduct a servey of NGOs land needs under this proposal and to ask Sudane to prepare a (perhaps conditional) estimate for the cost of the proposal. If you support this please say “Aye”
Beathan Vale: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Jon Seattle votes Aye
Jon Seattle: Bromo? Princess?
Bromo Ivory: Aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Sudane Erato: i am really very sorry… but i have to leave 🙁
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye sudane thanks fo rcoming
Jon Seattle: Thanks Sudane 🙂
Brian Livingston: Thanks Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
Jon Seattle: Shall we adjourn or go on?
Bromo Ivory: Bye Sudane
Bromo Ivory: I motion to adjourn
Brian Livingston: What is remaining on the agenda?
Beathan Vale: second
Bromo Ivory: and tbale the last point until next week
Brian Livingston: The Finanical Reporting bill, yes?
Bromo Ivory: Yes
Jon Seattle: Maks sense. If you would like to adjourn, please say aye.
Beathan Vale: looks like a good bill — but it is on for discussion only
Jon Seattle votes aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Brian Livingston: Mmm, best towait. Aye
Jon Seattle: We are adjourned.
Jon Seattle: See you all next week, and thanks!

Permalink.

RA Meeting: September 30, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (197, 185, 178)

Meeting on 2007-09-30
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: wow, full house 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded
Kulla Abramovic: where are you friends?
Bromo Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a notecard with the agenda in the dispenser on the table
Leon Ash: Wow, the USA Rugby team are playing a blinder! 🙂
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi leon, bromo, pat, pricess, beathan, sleazy, sudane, brian, tan 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sleazy Writer: hi 🙂
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: before we begin, i hope the RA will join me in congratulating the Neufreistadt Beer Guzzlers in their historic victory over the Colonia Nova Roman Winos at yesterday’s football match 🙂
Sudane Erato: Tan and Sleaze… anyone who wishes can sit here at the table…
Sleazy Writer: I can see it just fine from here
Bromo Ivory: I would second that, but this is a very divisive issue in CARE
Bromo Ivory: lol
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, you are welcome to join us on the comfy green seats 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: Thank You, Sudane, there may be latecomers :9
Bromo Ivory: ANd yes- I only wish I could have been there
Patroklus Murakami: the CSDF was similarly split (but Tan and I were on the winning side)
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Patroklus Murakami: okay, first item
Moon Adamant: hello all 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i understand last weeks’ RA meeting was quorate and you discussed the citizenship commission report
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi moon nice tosee you
Sleazy Writer: hi 🙂
Moon Adamant: hi hi 🙂
Bromo Ivory: We actually had a vote on accepting it
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll have to get the transcript on the wiki and do the necessary follow up
Bromo Ivory: 2 Aye, 2 Abstain and 1 7 day review by Brian
Patroklus Murakami: i see
Patroklus Murakami: i guess the question is ‘what next?’
Brian Livingston: I didn’t vote, so think that is technically an abstain
Patroklus Murakami: given the outcome of the commission and the disagreements over how to interpret them
Bromo Ivory: I would propose to have 1 member form each faction to meet to discuss our options and proposals
Bromo Ivory: This is an impeortnat step we might contemplate
Bromo Ivory: And we need to be tri-partisan
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: well, nothing wrong with trying to reach the broadest possible consensus 🙂 Would you include the DPU in that discussion as well?
Bromo Ivory: I think I would like that – though the RA needs to have a degree of unity at minimum
Bromo Ivory: Given their Chancellorship – I think it owuld be helpful
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think its a good idea too
Patroklus Murakami: ok, well perhaps you could organise that meeting bromo and we’ll see what comes out of it
Beathan Vale: yes — the DPU should be involved — no question
Bromo Ivory: I would like a committment from the facitons here and now that they will particiapte and to select a representative
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure the CSDF will participate but I can’t speak for the faction 🙂 we haven’t discussed this as far as i’m aware
Beathan Vale: same for the SP
Bromo Ivory: Next week you will have a representive named?
Beathan Vale: probably — but that is something that has to be discussed
Patroklus Murakami: i should hope so. we’ll put it on the agend for our weekly wednesday meeting
Patroklus Murakami looks at Sleazy 🙂
Bromo Ivory: Ok – and I would like it on the agenda for the next RA
Beathan Vale: and because the SP is less centralized than the other parties — might be like hearding cats
Patroklus Murakami: np bromo
Beathan Vale: herding even
Bromo Ivory: I understand
Sleazy Writer takes note
Brian Livingston: Hehe
Patroklus Murakami: oh, we’re not centralised at all beathan! we have the full range of views on this issue within the CSDF!
Jon Seattle agrees with Pat on that
Patroklus Murakami: lord know how we’ll choose someone to represent us. LOL!
Bromo Ivory: CARE will have to select as well. Though already it is like valunteering in the Army for the first part of this lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Beathan Vale: Pat — not dictatorially run by an individual, true — but you do have an active central committee at the core
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. not really beathan. but that’s a debate for another time perhaps?
Beathan Vale: I don’t belong to any organized political party — in RL I’m a democrat, here a Simpleton 😉
Patroklus Murakami: shall we move on to item 2? SC confirmations
Brian Livingston: hehe
Brian Livingston nods
Bromo Ivory: (Thanks for selecting someone to help this thing along, guys!)
Patroklus Murakami: so, we have three nominations for the Scientific Council – Claude Desmoulins, Justice Soothsayer and Pelanor Eldrich
Patroklus Murakami: the Dean has requested that we confirm their appointment to the SC
Patroklus Murakami: would anyone wish to comment on the candidacy of any of these three?
Beathan Vale: excellent candidates
Sudane Erato: i guess the DPU won’t be represented on the RA anytime soon :))
Bromo Ivory: I think all 3 are good picks
Brian Livingston: I think all three will make excellent additions to the SC
Sleazy Writer wispers: this is a plot to take over the CDS and turn it into a Swiss banking center .. 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: LOL at Sleazy!
Bromo Ivory: A bank in SL? LOL
Brian Livingston: With 50% APY?
Brian Livingston: Sweet!
Patroklus Murakami: any further comments? otherwise, we’ll proceed to the vote
Beathan Vale: cool — SL needs stable banks
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i suggest we vote on each candidate separately. i’ll call the vote and then each RA member needs to say ‘yay’ or ‘nay’. i’ll prompt if i don’t get a response!
Patroklus Murakami: so, on Claude Desmoulins’ candidacy for the SC. how do the RA members vote?
Brian Livingston: aye
Jon Seattle: Aye (yay)
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: leon?
Leon Ash: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂
Leon Ash: Sorry, trying to watch teh Rugby at the same time 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and Justice Soothsayer. how do the RA members vote?
Jon Seattle: Aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty, that is also unanimous
Beathan Vale: (wonders if Rugby is scriptable)
Bromo Ivory: (oooh! Rugby)
Patroklus Murakami: and finally, on Pelanor Eldrich. How do the RA members vote?
Brian Livingston: aye
Bromo Ivory: AYE
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Jon Seattle: abstains
Patroklus Murakami abstains
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: then we have confirmed three new members of the SC
Sleazy Writer: Hooray!
Patroklus Murakami: Now, on to item 3
Sleazy Writer: who has a bottle of champagne?!
Sleazy Writer will settle for beer after the meeting
Bromo Ivory: COngratulations to the new SC members!
Patroklus Murakami: now, I think it’s fair to say that we have a number of issue to resolve as a community over the new sim
Sleazy Writer: ty Princess 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: hope moet is good enough
Patroklus Murakami: and some questions have come to us from the Guild in order to move things forward
Patroklus Murakami: moon, you had a report to give on a survey I believe? would it help to take that now?
Moon Adamant: yes
Patroklus Murakami is eyeing two bottles of ‘veuve cliquot’ in RL and wondering if he can justify opening them 🙂
Moon Adamant: first of all, my apologie sto Guild members at the previous meeting: i had forgot that the School occupied two plots, so my reckonings re: New Guild weren’t correct (i’ll post the correct data too)
Moon Adamant: i can present accurate data as regards New Guild’s holdings now, but not as regards Monastery or Moca
Moon Adamant: this because Monastery is still under construction – so tehir needs are an estimate
Moon Adamant: and MoCA has adapted to the resources available, and could envisage an expansion – so therefore also an estimate there
Moon Adamant: New Guild holds atm 3 plots with total 1103 prims
Moon Adamant: Monastery estimates their needs above the 40*60 m plot and 1000 prims they had signaled as their first estimate
Moon Adamant: Moca is currently using 412 prims, but again, could envisage an expansion
Moon Adamant: so we are talking around the 2600 prims currently held
Patroklus Murakami: ty moon 🙂 is there more?
Moon Adamant: nothing more, except that the survey didn’t ask on finantial issues, purely on resources being used
Patroklus Murakami: i must confess i’m a bit behind on this debate
Jon Seattle: About 17 – 18% of a sim. Is that correct?
Moon Adamant: yes
Patroklus Murakami: is this in connection with the idea that the new sim be entirely supported by NGOs? or have i got the wrong end of the stick?
Moon Adamant: mind that in teh case of New Guild, one of the plots is unused or almost so, but the school plots are over their alottage
Jon Seattle: Pat, sudane’s proposal, if I understand it, is that the new sim would be partly supported by NGOs and the rest public.
Sudane Erato: and the MoCA plot is way over its allotage, because of the exhibit
Patroklus Murakami: aah yes, thanks jon 🙂
Sleazy Writer: (Which is normal for MoCA, imo)
Sudane Erato: yes… part of the prim bank plan
Patroklus Murakami: and sudane has posted her financial estimate on the forums. i have that as a texture but it’s no-copy so i can’t transfer it 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, could you hand copies to ppl?
Sudane Erato: sorry Pat 🙁
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: or put it in the notecard box?
Sleazy Writer: ty
Brian Livingston: thanks sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: anyone not get it?
Patroklus Murakami: everyone have a copy now?
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Bromo Ivory nods
Sudane Erato: to follow on from Moon’s report
Sudane Erato: and how this report works
Sudane Erato: Moons report implied the prim capacity (old system) of 11304 sq maters
Sudane Erato: lloking at the bottom
Bromo Ivory ‘s hair goes on end
Sudane Erato: that many sq meters of revenue generating land would mean that outr tier goes up only about 50%
ThePrincess? Parisi: only?
Patroklus Murakami: do you mean tier in the rest of teh CDS?
Sudane Erato: all tier in the CDS
ThePrincess? Parisi: and as much as 71?
Bromo Ivory: I am fairly certain that the outcome of the plebiscate would have happened differently with these figures
Sudane Erato: my assumption has always been that we would equalize the tier load, so that AM residents do not pay much more tier/prim than the other residents
ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed
Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps we could consider the 3 questions from the Guild now? as this will involve discussing these issues
Patroklus Murakami: the first question is “will the new sim be sold (other than to NGOs)?” i assume this means ‘will it be all public land?’
Patroklus Murakami: i had always assumed that it would be largely private land, pretty much residential. that’s what i thought we had voted on
Patroklus Murakami: what do others think?
Bromo Ivory: I do not beleive the original vote anticiapted 100% public land
Bromo Ivory: I think it was supposed to be residential
Bromo Ivory: And I beleive it should stay that way because of it
Jon Seattle: Yes, the original proposal was to be residental and “light commercial” according to the AM writeup.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i would like residential. and i dont agree with raising teirs
Bromo Ivory: WOuld it be helpful to have Rose speak to us before we make a decision?
Patroklus Murakami: is rose around?
Sleazy Writer: yes
Sudane Erato: she is i n world
Bromo Ivory: I am IM ing her
Sudane Erato: i have always reminded people that a new sim will cost 50% more per month than our existing sims
Sudane Erato: someone has to pay for that
Rose Springvale: hello
Patroklus Murakami: hi rose 🙂 thank you for joining us
ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome rose..
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you so much
Rose Springvale: thanks for having me
Bromo Ivory: RIght – but 100% public SIm is a lot different than a mostly residential on that impact
Patroklus Murakami: we’re just discussing Alpine Meadows
Sudane Erato: oh yes, of course
Rose Springvale: ok
Patroklus Murakami: and the proposal to make it 100% publicly owned, apart from land used by NGOs
Rose Springvale: i see
Beathan Vale: true — tier in SL is increasing — and continuing to increase — so expansion will be more costly each time we do it — but I think we have a broad consensus that we should still do it — and do wit by adding land to preserve the territoriality of our project
Patroklus Murakami: sorry 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’m trying to compose a question
Beathan Vale: Rose — we have concerns that the recent proposals from the Guild are changing your Alpine Meadows project into something very differeent than you envisioned and you presented to the CDS community
Patroklus Murakami: but they all sound too ‘leading’
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan for filling in!
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: i’ve been to the guild meetings and paid attention
Moon Adamant: Beathan, that is not hmmm very precise
Sudane Erato: yes, beathan, that is not the case
Beathan Vale: true — but my views on the proposal are not at all precise either
Rose Springvale: and have to say that the plan proposed earlier by the guild, with double prim lots, met my vision more than thepublic sim idea
Moon Adamant: The Guild is asking teh RA to decide over a matter of policy which is out of bounds of teh Guild
Rose Springvale: if that is what you are asking
Patroklus Murakami: actually, i’m more interested in the proposals regarding how we pay for the new sim in terms of tier than how close this is to the original vision. but the proposal was clearly for a residential sim, wasn’t it?
Rose Springvale: yes
Rose Springvale: with light commercial
Rose Springvale: no urban center
Moon Adamant: seeing that new data has been presented, ie: teh possibility that the land be totally paid for by the community
Sleazy Writer agrees with Pat
Rose Springvale: hmm, as a citizen, and proposer, i never expected major impact on my tier payments by virtue of adding a sim
Rose Springvale: would have not proposed it had i anticipated
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think we can really depart from that. what would be our authorisation to do so? when ppl voted in the contest these ideas weren’t really on the table
Sudane Erato: the RA can, of course, reject my assumption that tier will be equalized….
Moon Adamant: thus the Guild’s decision to ask these questions from the RA
Sudane Erato: and allow the AM residents to pay a much higher rate
Brian Livingston: Crazy question, but if we *were* to raise tiers to pay for thsi sim, how would our land rates be in comparison to other private sims out there?
Patroklus Murakami: i think that’s a separate question sudane
ThePrincess? Parisi: good question brian
Patroklus Murakami: the first question is ‘is it wholly public? or residential?’
Patroklus Murakami: the second question is ‘how do we pay for it? who pays for it?’
Sudane Erato: other rates range from 6 cents to 14 cents
Jon Seattle: Yes, the question that was posed was not about tier rates, but should the new sim be sold only to NGOs
Beathan Vale: my understanding is that the terrain is causing problems for the residential conception — is that right?
Patroklus Murakami: *questions are
ThePrincess? Parisi: and how many ppl would leave with no .. tier being paid.. and what does that do the bottom line…we cannot assume we wont lose residents
Rose Springvale: i was under the impression that the guild had good ideas for adapting the terrain
ThePrincess? Parisi: a higher tier i mean
Moon Adamant: beathan, we have a terrain atm that though not final is a handy approximation
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to propose that we proceed on the basis that the new sim will be largely residential
Beathan Vale: I agree with that
Jon Seattle: Seconded
Bromo Ivory: Third
Patroklus Murakami: and then ask the Guild to prepare a set of options for plots and financing the payment of tier
Moon Adamant: and a proposal for parcels that has incorporated suggestions from several people
Beathan Vale: I think we do want to explore the idea of increasing public space — especially destination space — having a tourism center or somesuch — but we should try to set it up specifically — and as a revenue generator if possible
Moon Adamant: The Guild is ready to do that
Patroklus Murakami: are other RA members in agreement with my proposal?
Beathan Vale: aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Patroklus Murakami: did we lose leon to rugby again? 🙂
Brian Livingston: abstain
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: never mind 🙂
Bromo Ivory thinks he heard an announcer yel “Scooooooooore”
Leon Ash: Huh, are we voting again??
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could look at question 2 now? how do we feel about subsidising the new sim since it will cost 50% more than NFS and CN currently do?
Patroklus Murakami: wb Leon 🙂
Beathan Vale: I think we need to bite that bullet — it is a given —
Beathan Vale: but we can weight — so not have full equalization — but a partial shift in tier
Jon Seattle: Does this mean we would be subsiding CN as well?
Brian Livingston: We’re going to have to normalize tiers
Patroklus Murakami: surely the precedent is how we set tier rates for CN? anyone recall how that was done?
Jon Seattle: I do, but Sudane set them really.
Moon Adamant: the finantial group did
Patroklus Murakami: the rate is different for CN and NFS isn’t it? what was the rationale for that? was it down to the different performance stats of the sim
Brian Livingston: That being said, I never really understood why the CN land is moer expensive than NFS, to the point that CN is bringing in almost 30% more tahn NFS
Sudane Erato: the rates are now by zone
Patroklus Murakami was on the financial group but can’t remember that decision 🙂
Sudane Erato: in both sims
Sudane Erato: so they differ based on where each parcel is located
ThePrincess? Parisi: what happnes if the higher rates make us lose the rate of rentals… if people leave and we catn stay full?
Sudane Erato: that can be done here too, if you wish
Beathan Vale: TP — I don’t think that is likely — we are still at the low end of cost
Sudane Erato: but the real issue is the overall average
Patroklus Murakami: anyone know how other land barons are dealing with this issue? it can’t just be us!
Beathan Vale: plus, we have more say in how things happen
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do…. land values are dropping so quickly
Sudane Erato: well…
Beathan Vale: land sales are down — land prices are beginning to reboudn
Bromo Ivory: Island land tends to be more valuable than mainland
ThePrincess? Parisi: no i disagree
Bromo Ivory: Since it has covenants and so on
Beathan Vale: but island sales are wahy down in number — and large parcels are not selling
Sudane Erato: it depends on the island
Bromo Ivory: True, Sudane
Beathan Vale: gthat indicates that gthe rental market is very, very soft
Beathan Vale: the gambling ban really hurt — now the VAT will also cause serious problems
Sudane Erato: on quality sims, and i’d like to think we count ours as that
Beathan Vale: overall population in SL fell for the first time ever
Sudane Erato: values are very high
Moon Adamant: land values are bound to go up again with the introduction of VAT on euro zone sales, mind – not specially because of that, but as you will get a parallel market
Beathan Vale: it will again
ThePrincess? Parisi: and volatile is my point
Beathan Vale: so — we should be worried — but not too worried
ThePrincess? Parisi: no i think its very risky
Beathan Vale: for instance — I have sold 3 large lots in the last 2 days — first such sales in more than a month
Patroklus Murakami: it seems to me there are three options – 1) make AM pay its own way 2) have a flat rate across the CDS 3) something in between
Patroklus Murakami: if we had some options to look at that said what the effect would be on tier payments for those three options that might help us make a decision
Beathan Vale: agrees with Pat
Patroklus Murakami: we could see, for instance, whether making AM pay for itself would push the fees up way too high
Bromo Ivory: I would like to take into account the relative speed of the servers into the tier
Jon Seattle: I personally would be happy with some variation of each, but I want to make sure that we are not having small land holders subsidise larger ones.
Beathan Vale: agrees with Bromo and Jon
Bromo Ivory: Jon, yes – needs to be neutral not progressive or regressive
Patroklus Murakami: and we could judge what the effect would be on current tier rates for existing citizens in NFS and CN
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i agree that server speed/quality needs to be factored in
Patroklus Murakami: clearly we all enjoy all our territory but there is a ‘quality of life’ issue to consider when you have a home on a ‘slow’ sim
Brian Livingston: Isn’t Server speed a fluctuating factor, depending on the load on that server?
Moon Adamant: you are aware that those are subjective and dynamic issues that may be hard to reckon?
Moon Adamant: exactly brian
Moon Adamant: you can calculate an average, of course
Beathan Vale: yes — Moon —
Moon Adamant: BUT
Patroklus Murakami: moon, i’m guessing it’s AM>CN>NFS?
Sudane Erato: there is no clear benefit of a new server over an old
Patroklus Murakami: that’s enough information to make some kind of judgement
Bromo Ivory: Lag?
Brian Livingston: And NFS will be moved to an upgraded server at some point in the near future, or at least our tier rate will likely go up in the next few months, so we should probably plan accordingly nevertheless
Moon Adamant: you can’t for instance preview if someone comes around tomorrow on a quick sim and sets a lot of laggish scripts
Beathan Vale: yes — in fact, depending on build and location — old servers might be favored —
Beathan Vale: on the mainland — they frequently are
Bromo Ivory: Well if they upgrade the server – then the NFS will have more avlue overall
Bromo Ivory: (And Havoc 4 will help, too)
Patroklus Murakami: so we may need to come back to this if NFS is upgraded? interesting
Moon Adamant: ehehe Havoc 4 is far away still
Sudane Erato: yes we will!!
Brian Livingston: Our rate is locked in until November I beleive, correct?
Bromo Ivory: Well if tier goes up we will have to
Brian Livingston: Then we can be brought up to the higher rate potentially
Sudane Erato: i have seen no commitment of any sort from LL
Patroklus Murakami: can we consider the third question so that we answer all of the Guild’s questions and give them enough to move things forward?
Brian Livingston: I’d say option 3 is the logical choice given our present discussion and realistic pricing scenarios
Patroklus Murakami: i think i probably agree brian 🙂 the middle way once more!
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
Beathan Vale: agree — option 3 is best
Leon Ash: Middle way seems best
Patroklus Murakami: but, on to plot sizes and distribution thereof
Patroklus Murakami: do ppl have views on this? there have been a number of proposals on the forums
Moon Adamant: the main discussion appears tobe
Moon Adamant: between holding a rural, disperse feel in the sim
Moon Adamant: and ensuring that there is a representativity of plot sizes from small to large
Moon Adamant: atm, there is a proposal at the forums that allows a compromise
Moon Adamant: can be detailed more of course, and for instance, there isn’t a finantial preview on it, saving for an accounting of resources
Leon Ash: Sorry everyone, but my time has come again. Till next week
Patroklus Murakami: are we experiencign chat lag?
Bromo Ivory: See you Leon!
Moon Adamant: that is, we know that the proposal previews more than 80% of the sim’s prims for sale
Sleazy Writer: (Dnate/Jon proposal of 18 Sept. : http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?p=8771#8771 )
Bromo Ivory: I would like to maximize entry points for new citizens
Patroklus Murakami: i’m seeing ppl type but nothing come up
Rose Springvale: i don’t know if you want me to talk
Bromo Ivory: PLease do!
Rose Springvale: though i do have strong feelings on this
Patroklus Murakami: happy to hear what you have to say rose
Jon Seattle: Sleazy, the difference between that one and the previous is mainly where the weight of the population is on the north end. Both it and the prior version have the same distrubution of lot sizes.
Rose Springvale: there are many many small plots in nfs and CN
Rose Springvale: ther are very few places for citizens to actually build and live without being frugal
Rose Springvale: those of us who want to do that
Rose Springvale: i’ll pick on myself and princess
Beathan Vale: agrees with Rose
Rose Springvale: end up buying more than one lot
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Rose Springvale: and then we use up prims
Rose Springvale: and have lots of open land
Rose Springvale: to have a few large lots
Rose Springvale: may verywell open up several smaller one
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do love prims
Rose Springvale: ones thus creatinmg more opportunity for “entry level”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh still meeting? ^

Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi everybody :))
Beathan Vale: yes — we don’t need to use the same land mix model on every sim we open now that we intend to open multiple sims
Rose Springvale: my law office isn’t extravagant
Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn, jamie 🙂
Rose Springvale: but i can’t get down to one lot, even a big one in CN
Rose Springvale: if i moved it to an AM double prim lot
Rose Springvale: you would open at least two
Rose Springvale: in CN
Jon Seattle: Rose, how large a lot do you need?
Rose Springvale: and other people.. .like me…would be more likely to buy
Rose Springvale: I’m not commintting to moving
Rose Springvale: i’m just saying that there ARE entry levels for small land owners. but not for large
Jon Seattle: The combined plans we posted do have some very large lots, along with medium and smaller ones.
Rose Springvale: i’m sorry, i’ve been too busy to keep up with forums, and always get mad when i try. so i’ll stick to in world meetings
Jon Seattle: The real question is do we want to have all enormous lots (9500 m2 in prims) or a mix.
Moon Adamant coughs and points out again that proposal exp10 was a sketch
Jon Seattle: A sim with only six residents if we go with the enormous lots only.
Rose Springvale: anyway, tha’s my input.. if you need more, i’m happy to talk to you, but i need to go now 🙂 thanks ladies and gentlemen 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, it’s an interesting question. how do we meet all our needs? both for occasional larger lots and also provide for expansion?
Patroklus Murakami: ok, ty rose
Beathan Vale: hmmm … Jon – – good point
Patroklus Murakami: bye for now
Rose Springvale: (easy answer, buy more sims hehe)
Rose Springvale: byeee
Sudane Erato: sadly… I must leave too
Patroklus Murakami: well, that easy answer may well be the right one
Sudane Erato: RL commitments
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you rose
Patroklus Murakami: bye sudane 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye Sudane 🙂
Beathan Vale: thanks Rose — I really wanted your insight on this one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye Rose, Sudane 😀
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i need to leave too
Brian Livingston: Tha being said, we may have difficultytrying to find people to purchase such large lots..
Patroklus Murakami: bye theprincess 🙂
Sleazy Writer: The Chancellor can always subdivide them
Patroklus Murakami: i’d feel happier agreeing to some larger lots if we had 8 sims rather than heading for 3
Jon Seattle: Brian, yes, especially if they are on such slanted parcels.
Brian Livingston: And if someone leaves their plot, the sim could quikcly go from making a small profit to losing money pretty quickly
Beathan Vale: we can folllow RL — have people buy farms and then turn them into subdivisions later
Sleazy Writer: I wouldn’t let citizens do that 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: it feels like we need a mix at this point in our development. expanding by only 6-8 plots in the new sim just doesn’t feel like enough to me
Brian Livingston: I’m not saying lets go for NFS densities, but a mix ofmedium amnd large sized plot is our best bet in my opinion
Patroklus Murakami: and i liked jon’s idea to provide some density while in keeping with the theme
Jon Seattle: Beathan, we will have quite a debate about how to do that.. there is no provision at the moment, and it is unlikley that we can work that out in time.
Moon Adamant: but 6 plots were never proposed *sighs*
Sleazy Writer: Jon : how large are the largest plots in your plan(s) — they seem 2000+ sqm to mee (in prims)
Beathan Vale: Pat — i have some land for excess population — we can work out something with the Guild
Bromo Ivory: I could go for that – we want to kepe the doors for joining and options for citizens wide open
Jon Seattle: Moon, Rose and Sudane supported the 6 plots very clearly, even if that was not your intention.
Bromo Ivory: Well the law as it is written allocates lots and citizenship on square meters only
Bromo Ivory: So prims don’t enter into the equation
Beathan Vale: I think we should focus on making the sim look and feel the way we want — and if that causes us to have too few new lots, I can work out an overflow deal with the Guild using my waterfront community or the sim which is being used as the monastary sandbox
Bromo Ivory: SO a quintuple lot of 4000m

2 would be still legal
Patroklus Murakami is puzzled by what bromo said
Moon Adamant: Bromo, that is just a factor you configure at the accounting system
Bromo Ivory: Sure
Sleazy Writer: Bromo .. you’re talking about covenants .. that differs per sim so where is the problem?
Beathan Vale: i was thinking of turning the monstary land into a Tibetan village anyway — it could be CDS foothold on the mainland — get incidental traffic
Bromo Ivory: I was saying that we are talking about lots of “equivalent prims” and as far as landholding – that is irrelevant
Bromo Ivory likes Beathan’s idea
Jon Seattle: The point is as much distribution as lot sizes. It is risky for us to create a social division that says some people over here, others over there.
Patroklus Murakami: aah i see what you’re saying bromo. our restriction is on no more than 4096 m2 in any one sim isn’t it?
Bromo Ivory: I agree Jon, but it isn’t a factor in the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pat
Moon Adamant: the restriction is set per sim
Bromo Ivory: Yes
Jon Seattle: Right now the people volunteering for the guild, to build this space, will not be allowed to own land under the 6 lot plan. That is a problem.
Moon Adamant: hm?
Bromo Ivory: UNless they sell up and move
Jon Seattle: Bromo, unless they can affort a 9500 m2 lot.
Bromo Ivory: This is true as well
Bromo Ivory: But this is something that I have a concern about – when we talk about double prims
Jon Seattle: Bromo, well, we will be selling the double prim lots at 2x the price of course, no other reason to have double
Bromo Ivory: Of course
Jon Seattle: In effect each resident will own their share of the sim — since it is all private land.
Patroklus Murakami: this feels like another situation where we need to see some numbers. how feasible is it to produce a set of figures for 1) big lots 2) a very mixed sim 3) something in between?
Moon Adamant: you need to make a proposal for each
Bromo Ivory: If the proposal said “village” then we are in for makiung at least some small lots
Patroklus Murakami: we already have plot diagrams on the forums, how hard would it be to turn those into proposals?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Patroklus Murakami: we could discuss the principle all night, it’s clear we are quite divided 🙂
Moon Adamant: well, you have the full data for teh sketch exp10
Moon Adamant: the subsequent proposals need more land to pas sinto public, because of roads
Jon Seattle: Bromo, the proposal in fact says (1) village, and (2) sets the largest plots at 2946 m2. The 6 lot proposal ignores both of these.
Beathan Vale: I think that a mixture of lots can preserve the look and feel of a rural sim — but I am not sure the current proposal does so
Moon Adamant: but not significantly
Moon Adamant: that’s the added advantage of double prim plots
Jon Seattle: *2048 sorry.
Bromo Ivory: Well double prims solves the “prim lot” issue
Patroklus Murakami: oh dear. we lost brian 🙂
Moon Adamant: not only that Bromo
Jon Seattle: So it seems to me exp10, the one Rose was backing, is not consistant with the AM proposal.
Sleazy Writer nods
Moon Adamant: double prim allows me to have floating parcel son the terrain, as half of the land is *primless* so to sy
Patroklus Murakami: i’m concerned that we’re not really giving the Guild any clear steer here. we appear to have a range of opinions
Beathan Vale: true Pat
Bromo Ivory: Well I would ask the Guild to come up with a proposal that follows the letter of the original thing that was voted upon
Beathan Vale: but I’m not sure that the way is clear enough to give clear direction
Bromo Ivory: As well as other proposals
Bromo Ivory: We best not deviate from what the people asked for
Patroklus Murakami: is working up multiple proposal too much to ask? i don’t want to overload the Guild with unnecessary work
Moon Adamant: well, that’s what we have been doing
Moon Adamant: well, what i think is
Beathan Vale: true — the Guild has done about as much as it can without direction
Bromo Ivory nods
Moon Adamant: if you consider the exp 10 sketch
Patroklus Murakami: wb brian 🙂
Beathan Vale: but I don’t know if we can give the required direction atm
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that the Guild should charge the RA 😉
Sleazy Writer: wb 🙂
Moon Adamant: it is something that sort of shows hmmm
Moon Adamant: well, it is under the 10% public prims, that is communication area
Jon Seattle: See the bottom of this: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1355&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=5d5cbcfccae62d19d2335a1653a7656c
Moon Adamant: that is pretty good in terms of ratio communication/useable spaces – but it was understood that as the plna was refined and subdivided, you would progressively have more public resources
Moon Adamant: this to say that exp 10 is a sort of limit to what you can have in terms of saleable resources, considering that you do want roads and landscape
Moon Adamant: and not a mainland mess
Bromo Ivory nods
Bromo Ivory: I am uncertain we will reach a good direction today
Moon Adamant: as for the Jon/Dnate proposal, it is already a refinement of the sketch
Moon Adamant: so the data on it can be considered mature
Moon Adamant: does this input help?
Sleazy Writer: Does the RA want more options than the Jon/Dnate proposal?
Patroklus Murakami: well, we’re not getting you very much further forward on this issue right now. how might we resolve this? Is the Guild ready to come forward with a proposal? will it be ready to do so soon?
Moon Adamant: Mind also the following
Moon Adamant: there are much more possible solutions with smaller plots than with larger plots
Bromo Ivory: I do like th eones on the proposal in the forums – those two
Bromo Ivory: I now Rose wanted big double primmed plots, but the proposal that was voted on didn’t call that out
Bromo Ivory: *know
Moon Adamant: as for the moment, i would suggest then that the data be collected on Jon/Dnate’s
Sleazy Writer: maybe it’s already on the forum?
Moon Adamant: i dunno, have been very busy this week, and have a lot of mail to catch up
Bromo Ivory: (THough we define maximum ownership by m^2 only, not prims
Jon Seattle: In terms of aggregate land sold, the Jon/Dnate proposals will be very close to the exp10 scetch, since I based the area of the subdivided plots on the original exp10 plots. But there will be a little variation.
Moon Adamant: Bromo: the maximum ownership is defined by sim, so it’s a question of translating land=prims on this covenant
Patroklus Murakami: does the Guild need approval from the RA for one of these plans in order to move forward? I’m not clear what we’re being asked to decide here
Bromo Ivory: Moon, thanks for clearing that up
Moon Adamant: yes, i would agree with Jon
Moon Adamant: the thing is, Pat
Moon Adamant: we are in middle of a process here, which was started in May
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Moon ? indeed!!!!
Moon Adamant: and suddenly, we got new data – namely that the sim would be sponsored by teh community
Bromo Ivory nods “Mission creep without specifications defined up front”
Moon Adamant: now that proposal is not consistent with the work we are doing as regards parcelling
Sleazy Writer: Bromo > Moon just said at the Guild that covenants is one thing that people can start working on anyway (whatever the RA decides in the mean time ..)
Moon Adamant: terrain is ok
Moon Adamant: but you see our point here
Patroklus Murakami: i think we will need to have a ‘lessons learned’ exercise following this so we don’t encounter the same problems with sim 4 etc
Moon Adamant: should we continue? should we abandon?
Moon Adamant: indeed!
Sleazy Writer: The RA only has to approve the **distribution** of sizes .. not the exact lay out
Sleazy Writer: 🙂
Moon Adamant: well, later on you’ll have to approve the plan 🙂
Moon Adamant: but as for the moment, we need you guys to tell us what you think teh policy for the sim would be
Patroklus Murakami: right, well then can i suggest we draft three options for the distribution of plots on the forums and ask the RA to vote? i can’t see any other way we’re going to resolve this
Bromo Ivory: I second that
Beathan Vale: OK — I propose that the RA just leap — vote to approve Seattle proposal to provide clear guidance, with a caveat that the alternative proposals be given favored attention for sim 4
Moon Adamant: but Pat hmmm
Moon Adamant: you already have 2
Sleazy Writer: nice one Beathan!
Moon Adamant: a limit proposal, as said, and a refinemente
Moon Adamant: what would be the 3?
Bromo Ivory: Oh …. Which one would that be – I am open to leaping, but not blindly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: …
Beathan Vale: in Jon I trust — lol
Jon Seattle: 🙂 lol
Beathan Vale: Geronimo!!!
Bromo Ivory: Option 1 or 2?
Sleazy Writer: or make this a 7 day vote .. and get all the votes during the week
Patroklus Murakami: well, i haven’t followed every twist and turn of this on the forums so i’m not as au fait as some of you 🙂
Jon Seattle: Well, and the one with Dnates changes is number 3, but they all are similar from my point of view.
Patroklus Murakami: if it’s clear there are two options can we clarify what these are and then vote on them?
Moon Adamant: yes, they are
Moon Adamant: it’s really just swapping plots around
Bromo Ivory: Well one has 2 4096 and the other doens’t have any
Moon Adamant: that’s what i mean by saying that there are many more solutions with smaller plots
Jon Seattle: I am not against larger plots as well. Remember 4096 with double prims however.
Bromo Ivory: WOuld we want to identify Option 1 to vote on it?
Sleazy Writer: 4096 v 2048 == leave it up to the covenant .. let them figure out what a person can own max.
Sleazy Writer: prim savvie people can always get 2 x 2048 if the covenant permits
Patroklus Murakami: but is the Guild happy that these are the only two options on the table? i don’t want there to be comeback later if ppl are not happy with the RAs decision
Moon Adamant: Pat
Moon Adamant: the proposals we have are teh result of a process
Moon Adamant: in my mind, they’re not even 2, but only one that moved along in time
Moon Adamant: we can’t possibly encompass ALL possible solutions
Moon Adamant: because they’re many
Beathan Vale: Moon — in that case, is the Guild just looking for a vote of confidence in the Guild process?
Beathan Vale: or in a specific support for the final iterative result
Bromo Ivory: I am all for leaping on an option – and I move that we vote on option 1
Bromo Ivory: any seconds?
Moon Adamant: beathan, the Guild wants to carry on with its work with a minimal assurance that the work is along the desired route
Sleazy Writer: Or: “RA votes to approve the distribution expressed in the Jon-Dnate? proposal 1 or 2, … giving the Guild 10% room to vary (in square meters).”
Brian Livingston: I’m a bit confuised on what option 1 is now…
Bromo Ivory: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1355&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=5d5cbcfccae62d19d2335a1653a7656c
Beathan Vale: I rather favor option 2 I think — but I have no heartburn about any of them — I think we need to point the Guildin some direction — but I am willing to point randomly given these options
Bromo Ivory: Last post – bottom of page
Bromo Ivory: Is that a second?
Patroklus Murakami: bromo, just hold on a second please
Bromo Ivory: OK
Moon Adamant: because, you see, it’s isn’t up to teh Guild to say which kind of population, mix, whatever, do you want
Moon Adamant: what teh Guild has shown so far is that you can have either large plots, either a mix
Patroklus Murakami: i’m a bit confused. i thought we were being asked to choose between two options, now we’re being told the Guild has settled on one. which is it?
Moon Adamant: and has given you the numbers for it
Moon Adamant: we haven’t, we were working along a process
Moon Adamant: and an option came around to have a completely public sim that doesn’t need that we work on parcelling, covenants, etc
Jon Seattle: Pat, the two options really are the six plot option (though Moon never inteded the exp10 map to the a proposal); vs the process that produced the Jon/Dnate maps.
Patroklus Murakami: well, i have no strong feelings about option 1 or 2 in the forum post given but i think you’re headed in the right direction. i don’t favour the ‘fully public’ option and i think the RA has rejected that idea
Moon Adamant: at the same time, there was a side discussion on the mix of plot sizes on the proposals in progress
Patroklus Murakami: Is that enough for the Guild to move forward? it seems the other RA reps are in a similar place
Moon Adamant: and the Guild has considered that that discussion was really a policy discussion, so out of bounds for us
Moon Adamant: what is enough, pardon?
Moon Adamant: now i am confused 🙂
Bromo Ivory: So …. what direction do you need – a vote to say one of the 3 is OK?
Jon Seattle: I would like a vote that 1, 2, or 3 is okay. That the original exp10 with just 6 parcels is not the way we should go.
Patroklus Murakami: what does the Guild need from the RA to move forward? do you need a vote from us on one of these proposals? What are you asking us to decide?
Jon Seattle: Let me pull up the exp10 map
Moon Adamant: what we would like is
Patroklus Murakami: we need to finish in ten mins at the most btw 🙂 we’re over time
Jon Seattle: http://temp.betatechnologies.info/Moon/APM_exp10%20copy.jpg
Moon Adamant: that you guys would say ‘consider this kind of proposal’ and that it would be final
Brian Livingston: Yea, Iv’e gotta run in a mintue or two :/
Moon Adamant: so that we could have a solid ground for our work
Moon Adamant: instead of shifting sand
Jon Seattle: The exp10 map I just posted is the one that Rose approved and supports.
Moon Adamant: hm, i haven’t yet seen an explicit disaproval of the Jon/Dnate’s
Bromo Ivory: It seems like we have option 1 which is the ROse plan
Moon Adamant: by anyone
Bromo Ivory: And option 2/3 which is the lot mixture
Jon Seattle: Bromo, exactly
Patroklus Murakami: ty bromo. i think that’s a fair summary
Bromo Ivory: Can we move to a vote – on the mixture of plots?
Patroklus Murakami: yes please. lets
Brian Livingston: I think that the general consensus of the meembers present is that options 2 and 3 are nice compromises, but I may be wrong on that analysis
Bromo Ivory: So I move to vote to adopt the plot mixture plan 2/3
Patroklus Murakami: i vote for options 2/3, the jon/dnate options/direction
Bromo Ivory: I vote 2/3 Jon/DNate
Jon Seattle: Of course, I am in favor of 2/3 🙂
Patroklus Murakami prods beathan
Brian Livingston: Aye
Bromo Ivory thinks of fraternity pranks we could play on Beathan
Gwyneth Llewelyn laughs 🙂
Brian Livingston: Anyoen have a permanent marker?
Brian Livingston: Anda razor…
Patroklus Murakami: i guess we’ll have to wait for beathan to come to life to tell us how he votes
Bromo Ivory: Nair his left eyebrow off
Brian Livingston: Hmmm, and a chicken and some ducttape
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Jon Seattle: Pat, he did vote I think.
Patroklus Murakami: so inventive!
Bromo Ivory: (Well we ARE the RA)
Jon Seattle: 😀
Sleazy Writer: 🙂
Jon Seattle: Beathan?
Patroklus Murakami: beathan? could you read back and let us know your vote?
Beathan Vale: 2/3
Jon Seattle: lol!
Patroklus Murakami: what was that?
Sleazy Writer: nothign 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Bromo Ivory: Sleazy shouting
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
Bromo Ivory: second!
Brian Livingston: Wow, the RA has fallen off the deepend the past few minutes :p
Jon Seattle: Aye 🙂
Brian Livingston: aye!
Moon Adamant: thank you all 🙂
Brian Livingston: deep end*
Sleazy Writer: good job RA 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
Patroklus Murakami: ty everybody
Bromo Ivory: See you next week
The meeting closed at 14:10 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: October 07, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 165, 41)

Meeting on 2007-10-07
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Bromo Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, let’s begin
Bromo Ivory: 4 present
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: the chat log will start from now
Patroklus Murakami: there’s an agenda in the wooden box on the table
Patroklus Murakami: only one agenda item today – sudane’s proposed legislative change
Bromo Ivory: I thought we were going to hear back from the other factions as to who their representtive for working on Citizenship would be?
Bromo Ivory: its not on agenda
Patroklus Murakami: we can take that first bromo
Sudane Erato: thats all?
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Sudane Erato: !!
Patroklus Murakami: yes, nothing else has been submitted
Pelanor Eldrich: I think we can eat up more than one RA meeting with Citizenship and land sale. 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the CSDF rep will be Sleazy Writer
Bromo Ivory: Well all I would like to know would be who would be the rep
Patroklus Murakami: Simplicity are not here
Patroklus Murakami: Pel, can you speak for the DPU?
Michel Manen: brian is coming i think
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to consult with the rest of the DPU. As many of you know my views sometimes diverge from the DPU.
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Bromo Ivory: I saw him pop on
Jon Seattle: Hi Brian 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: So I can’t unilaterally decide that I speak for the DPU on this question. I’ll get back to you ASAP.
Brian Livingston: Hi all
Bromo Ivory: Hi Brian ! I recognize that bear!
Patroklus Murakami: hi brian. ty for coming, we are no quorate 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi brian
Brian Livingston: We need 5, correct?
Patroklus Murakami: *now
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston: Oh, hehe,
Patroklus Murakami: so, brian. bromo was asking about faction reps for the citizenship meeting he has planned
Patroklus Murakami: has the simplicity party considered who its rep might be?
Brian Livingston: Hmm, We haven’t but Provided teh timing for the meetings is agreeable, I would be willing to represent the SP
Patroklus Murakami: ok, ty brian
Bromo Ivory: I have not established a meeting time
Bromo Ivory: and thanks!
Brian Livingston: So it’s a tenative yes, but if I can’t do it, I will run the time by Beathan to see if he can attend in my stead
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi sleazy
Bromo Ivory: I was going to try to schedule around the reps
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 1, sudane’s proposed legislative change. sudane, would you like to introduce this?
Sleazy Writer: Hi Princess, hello everyone
Jon Seattle: Hi Sleazy
Bromo Ivory: CSDF? Who is your rep?
Patroklus Murakami: i said that Sleazy would be our rep
Bromo Ivory: OK sorry
Patroklus Murakami: np:) sudane?
Patroklus Murakami prods sudane
Sleazy Writer: Bromo’s remark must be about the Citizenship report, I’ve just told him that the CSDF thinks prospects for successful negotiations look bleak and will post on the forum what I’ve just told him.
Michel Manen: well sleazy thats your opinion
Sudane Erato: sorry…
Sudane Erato: assaulted by IMs 🙁
Bromo Ivory: I hope it means CSDF will have an open mind, and all could be pleasantly surprised!
Pelanor Eldrich: Sry your honor I was bending the good treasurer’s ear.
Sudane Erato: the bill…
Sleazy Writer ignores Michel, for now ..
Sleazy Writer: (sorry about that)
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, you have the floor
Sudane Erato: most of SL sells land by having the individual owner
Michel Manen: for someone who comes and goes every 3 montths you really ar very opinionanted..
Sudane Erato: mark their land for sale
Patroklus Murakami: order pls
ThePrincess? Parisi clears her throat
Sudane Erato: we haven’t, and i am proposing that we do that
Michel Manen: sorry
Michel Manen: that was ou of order
Sudane Erato: the obstacle is the fact that membership in the CDS is related to land ownership
Sudane Erato: but I propose that we address the appearance of the parcel covenant
Sudane Erato: in such a way that the citizenship issue is addressed
Sudane Erato: and at the same time allow citizens to sell their land in the normal way
Sudane Erato: thats really all their is to it…
Patroklus Murakami: ok, any questions/comments for sudane’s proposal?
ThePrincess? Parisi: are you comfortable that we can still remove ownershop for other than nonpayment.. but if they do not follow all rules including citizenship
Jon Seattle: Would this allow group deeds as well?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ownership
Sudane Erato: the estate Owner always has ultimate ability to remove ownership… “reclaim”
Sudane Erato: and the estate owner functions only to perform what the RA tells her to do
ThePrincess? Parisi: i understand but the covenent should be clear on that matter
Sudane Erato: and Jon, yes
Sudane Erato: an individual would buy the land
Sudane Erato: but that individual can deed the land to their group
Jon Seattle: Would we change the policy, or is it an additional step to check the group membership?
Sudane Erato: not sure i understand that
ThePrincess? Parisi: you check that now dont you sudane? that the members are citizens
Patroklus Murakami: i have a question but i’ll wait for u to answer jon 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m for it. It’s less work for Sudane/Rudeen and a faster and lower overhead transaction for the new landowner/citizen. As long as we can be sure that the citizen rolls are automatically up to date I see it as a plus. We wouldn’t collect the transfer tax, but we never did anyway. It would be nice if someone could go around to give us an idea of market prices…well there a business idea..hmmm…..
Jon Seattle: Ah, members can maintain citizenship by owning group land.. who would check that membership
Jon Seattle: ?
ThePrincess? Parisi: sudane does now dont you?
Sudane Erato: the law as now stated, i understand…
Sudane Erato: says that people must be citizens first
Jon Seattle: yes
Sudane Erato: before they can be citizens as a result of ownership of group land
Sudane Erato: once a citixen becomes citizen by virtue of membership in a group
Patroklus Murakami: does that answer your question jon?
Sudane Erato: I have no way of checking that now
Sudane Erato: this would not change that
Pelanor Eldrich: hmmm
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, what do you mean by ‘no way of checking’?
ThePrincess? Parisi: nods
Jon Seattle: Well, say someone owned a parcel, bought into a group parcel, then sold their individual parcel
Sudane Erato: if I say to the coommunity…
ThePrincess? Parisi: im confused too.. you checked mine ithought
Patroklus Murakami: is there a problem with the current system regarding group ownership and citizenship?
Sudane Erato: that Salzie Sachertorte is a citizen by virtue of belonging to my group
Brian Livingston: brb, i think i just accidently ouch… brb
Sudane Erato: how do you check that?
Sudane Erato: if someone claims that a person is in a group, i take their word for it
Patroklus Murakami: surely that is checked by salzie paying her portion of the monthly fee each month?
Sudane Erato: no, there is no rule to that effect
Sleazy Writer: no such requirement a.t.m.
Patroklus Murakami: or do we still allow ppl to pay on behalf of others?
Patroklus Murakami: hi beathan, welcome 🙂
Sudane Erato: thats correct
Sleazy Writer: hi Beathan
Bromo Ivory: Hi Beathan!
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi Beathan 🙂
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi beathan
Beathan Vale: hello — sorry I’m late
Brian Livingston: (back… *reminds self to wash hands after cutting hot pepppers and before rubbing eyes*)
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i thought that had been changed, it certainly ought to be
Pelanor Eldrich: Perhaps we can discuss some citizenship ideas after this agenda item is over.
Patroklus Murakami: ooh, sounds painful brian!
Bromo Ivory: OW OW OW
Sudane Erato: my understanding is that that is part of the citizenship discussion
Patroklus Murakami: i have a couple of questions too. would this allow sellers to subdivide their plot into smaller lots?
Jon Seattle: Brian, I hope you are recovering 🙂
Brian Livingston: A bit pufy eyed but ok
Sudane Erato: subdivision is an entirely separate issue… its a different setting on the Estate
Sudane Erato: and I am very much opposed to that
Brian Livingston nods in agreement
Pelanor Eldrich: I agree
Bromo Ivory: Me, too
Sleazy Writer: I think the complication with people joining land groups is still the same: the EO needs to be notified, or she simply won’t know .. and there will be a citizen without anyone knowing
Patroklus Murakami: ok, so the EO can prevent that from happening by just flicking a switch? good
Jon Seattle: Yes, indeed.
Pelanor Eldrich: *flick*
Sudane Erato: yes
Michel Manen: another barrier to entry put up by CSDF.. sigh
Patroklus Murakami: how are we going to deal with those who *don’t* read the covenant and don’t understand what they’ve got into?
Sudane Erato: thats a good point Pat
Patroklus Murakami: michel, if u want to know why subdivision might be a problem, we can go into that
Sudane Erato: but the same issue exists now
Pelanor Eldrich: The iron maiden
Bromo Ivory: You can make the covenent to a “I have read and understood” check box before sale
Bromo Ivory: I bought some land with that
Sudane Erato: All sales are accompanied by such a Check Box
Patroklus Murakami: i click ‘i agree to terms’ a dozen times a day without reading. so does everybody!
ThePrincess? Parisi: ohter sims will let you buy the land on the ground.. but then you are not official until you actually go through the process with the sim owner.. so i have experienced.. if youdont do what they want ina few days teh land goes back
Michel Manen: no no lets try to accomplish dodmething today for a change,,,
Patroklus Murakami: that’s interesting ThePrincess?, that sets a precedent for us too then
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can always take the land back..
Sleazy Writer: P > SL covenants are not software licenses ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: sudane can
Sudane Erato: that is the option we use now
Sudane Erato: and that is what i suggest we change
Jon Seattle: Michel, you recommend that we not be cautious .. and not ask questions?
ThePrincess? Parisi: please lets not do that
ThePrincess? Parisi: stop jabbing
Michel Manen: i suggest we make it as simple as possible for people who wanto join us to do so
Pelanor Eldrich: I think, if I might interject, that Michel would like to see subdivisions enabled, which would make sense if land ownership were decoupled from citizenship.
Beathan Vale: legally — the check the box is effective to bind the party — even without reading – -and I think it is essential
Sudane Erato: i think that the change i propose makes it simpler
Sleazy Writer: Hi Tan
Michel Manen: yes it does sudane
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi tan
Jon Seattle: Hi Tan
Bromo Ivory: Hey there, Tan!
Jon Seattle: 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: Hello everybody
Brian Livingston: Just a quick question in regards to land pricign. Currently, if a private party owns a plot of land, are they able to sell it for whatever price they deem appropriate or are they bound to the city price?
Michel Manen: i fully support yor proposal, for what its’ worth.. smiles
Pelanor Eldrich: And if zoning permitted etc. etc.
Brian Livingston: err, base price*
Sudane Erato: Brian, any price they wish
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston: Thanks
Patroklus Murakami: would this be more or less likely to bring in ‘active’ citizens? seems to me, if this is enabled, we’d be likely to get ppl interested in the land but not necessarily in the project
Bromo Ivory: Sudane, this can be done today anyway, can’t it?
Bromo Ivory: (setting prices)
Sudane Erato: thats a good point Pat, but i don’t think its any different now
Sleazy Writer: P > do we need people interested in the project? That’s only natural with growth
Sudane Erato: done anyway?
Pelanor Eldrich: I think it would allow people who want in to more easily get in.
Bromo Ivory: Oh when someone wants to sell land today – they can put it up for sale for any price they wish.
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes tehy can
Patroklus Murakami: it’s totally different. now ppl have to jump a hurdle and show they’re really interested. in future they could just pay the money without knowing what we’re about (or being interested)
Sudane Erato: it would be easier because the infomation about parcels for sale would b e more easily accessed
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not opposing this btw, just raising difficult questions 🙂
Brian Livingston: My initial objection was taht eliminating the check of havign to g through the EO would encourage land speculation, but I’m seeing that i was mistaken
Sudane Erato: Pat,, not really any hurdle now
Sleazy Writer: Sudane, how often do people speculate on Island land, without being the least interested in the sim and community itself?
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s very hard to tell if new citizen x will turn out to be very civically minded.
Sudane Erato: Sleaze, I’m not sure there is any connection between “speculate” and “not having any interest”
Sudane Erato: this is a bad place to speculate
Pelanor Eldrich: I think a good strategy is to get as many citizens as possible…if a standard 10% work hard in the community, it’s a good thing.
Sudane Erato: but there are many citizens with little or no interest in our system
ThePrincess? Parisi: why dont we want our land to sellat market value
Sleazy Writer: Sudane > Buying and seliing for a higher price immediately is possible and would be detrimental to our community : do you think it occurs in private islands? or here?
Patroklus Murakami: but pel, this won’t increase our population, only make buying and selling land easier
Beathan Vale: Sudane — so we are a lot like RL democracies then ? lol
Jon Seattle: Well, I generally like the idea, but I would rather it no force policy changes if possible. What about enforcement on limits to land ownership in a particular sim? Would someone be able to check that?
Sudane Erato: our land has always sold at whatever the price that an owner wants
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes Beathan
Bromo Ivory: So this isn’t a change to anything except to make it posisble of direct sales – all the structural issues are still there
Sudane Erato: Jon, thats a good point
Pelanor Eldrich: It lowers a barrier. If there is a civic superhero who wants in they need to find an available parcel, negotiate with the seller and transact through the EO. The EO is an extra step. It’s actually quite hard these days to join the CDS.
ThePrincess? Parisi: exactly bromo
Beathan Vale: never trust a “democracy” with over 80% turnout
Sudane Erato: but people can always be forced to divest
Michel Manen: yes pat
Michel Manen: its byzantine
Sleazy Writer: I don’t think speculation will be a huge problem but it *is* something we shoudl think about .. if land is traded as a pure commodity I think it will only make our land more scarce .. sure it’s capitalism but does it benefit us in this case?
Michel Manen: i agree with pel
Beathan Vale: I agree with Pel also, but without agreeing with Michel — lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Michel Manen: hahaha
Pelanor Eldrich: The EO is a minor inconvenience (no offense intended) the other problem is a lack of parcels for sale.
Michel Manen: good enugh for me
Patroklus Murakami: well sleazy, it benefits *us* because we’re already landowners. speculation pushes the value of our land up, but acts as a barrier to new entrants
Sudane Erato: i would assert that we have never yet experienced speculation
Sleazy Writer: that only benefits us once … though the presence of speculators (perhaps creating scarcity?) will stay
Sudane Erato: these sims are a TERRIBLE place to speculate, so far
Bromo Ivory nods “Mainland is better for speculation”
Sleazy Writer: 🙂 I assume speculators read covenants!
Patroklus Murakami: of course we’ve never experienced speculation. we’ve had a controlled market!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sleazy Writer: Is that right Beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi needs a course n the evils of a free market
Sudane Erato: nothing wrong with a free market
Bromo Ivory: I dunno … something bugs me a bit
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙁
Sudane Erato: if its really free
Beathan Vale: Sleazy — yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok …
Michel Manen: lol
Beathan Vale: I never buy island land — far too much hassle
Patroklus Murakami: what is bugging you bromo?
Beathan Vale: ML is for speculators
Pelanor Eldrich: There is no direct benefit to the CDS treasury of high (15-20$Lm/2) land prices unless a transfer tax is paid. It does help it indirectly in that landowners and investors are more willing to invest which drives up citizenship. The key thing here is *not* to raise market price by lack of supply, but rather by value add of the community. Then we all win.
Bromo Ivory: I am reading the covenant wording …
Sudane Erato: Pel, I agree
Sleazy Writer: “buy value add”= ?
Sudane Erato: “by”
Sleazy Writer: I thnk I get the point but that last line puzzles me
Pelanor Eldrich: The benefits of community membership. Democracy, rule of law, NGOs..the things that make the CDS unique.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sympathetic to the aims of the bill, we all want to reduce the admin overhead. it doesn’t scale well and it would be good to see our land on the main market
Bromo Ivory: (I think this means is mainland land goes for L$8/m^2 and in CDS it goes for 8+amount the amount is the extra value add by our community/
Patroklus Murakami: but i wonder if we’re just swapping one set of problems for another
Beathan Vale: some people are worried about land speculation — why don’t we put a land resale restriction in — all putchases must inclue a nonrefundable payment of 3 months tier — that would stop specualtion right out
Sleazy Writer: Pel > keep in mind though that we absolutly can’t churn out new land like the Lindens, … prices will be raised once and land will stay on short supply
Patroklus Murakami: it seems to me that the logistics around defaulting landowners and potentially ignorant buyers can create a lot of problems
Beathan Vale: a prepayment would also cause folks to pay attention to what they were getting into
Beathan Vale: and it would not scare off committed people
Sudane Erato: the logistic of prepayment would be difficult
Sleazy Writer nods
Sleazy Writer: @ Beathan
Pelanor Eldrich: Sleazy, that’s true. Developing good land and getting a local community into that land takes time. It a reason I suggested landless citizenship.
Beathan Vale: what logistical complications?
ThePrincess? Parisi: why not just let them buy, then if they break the covenent take the land
Sleazy Writer: ( P > Separate issues for me ..)
Patroklus Murakami: well ThePrincess?, that could lead to a lot of disgruntled punters. i’d rather avoid that if possible
Sudane Erato: the payment for the land goes directly from the buyer to the seller
Pelanor Eldrich: Beathan: it means Sudane has to have current account balances for all the prepayers. It’s a pain.
Sudane Erato: only when i find out that ownership is transferred can i set up a new payment box
Bromo Ivory: I am all for making Rudeen’s life easier.
Sudane Erato: yes… all payments now are for the “month of” only
Pelanor Eldrich: Pat, we could allow it, but of course give them SC due process before repossessing land. We don’t just *take land* around here.
Sleazy Writer: ReBeathan’s suggestion: buyer would pay 3 extra months to seller. Seller would pay the 3 months to Rudeen . Rudeen knows the monthly fee, so knows what to expecet and also knows who’s land has been sold.
Michel Manen: why??
Sleazy Writer: but the seller might be a conman 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: well Pel, that’s one of my worries. we then create a rod for our own back dealing with the issues
ThePrincess? Parisi: waht?
Sudane Erato: well, i’m against that… would make my system very confusing
Michel Manen: of course
Patroklus Murakami: tying up the SC with cases
Bromo Ivory: What is supposed to happen now?
Sudane Erato: i’d like your approval for this
Sudane Erato: then we would simply set the chnage
Brian Livingston: If anyone recalls the Eminent Doamin proposal i offered up a year ago, it creates a mechanism for reposessing land and recourse if the affected party disagrees with the taking, including timeframes and procedures..
Pelanor Eldrich: I don’t think we’ve ever confiscated land. It’s funny, it’s just that we don’t seem to attract “criminals”.
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to give this some further consideration
Bromo Ivory: I move we vote
Patroklus Murakami: i don\t think we’ve thought through all the implications
Brian Livingston: Althoguh different circumstances are involved
ThePrincess? Parisi: i would liek to vote as well
Pelanor Eldrich: That was a good bill Brian.
Patroklus Murakami: well, if you move to a vote i’m voting against. i’d like time to consider this
Patroklus Murakami: why the rush? this was only tabled a few days ago?
Jon Seattle: Is there a reason to hurry this?
Brian Livingston: I’d like to consider a bit more and vote next week
ThePrincess? Parisi recalls this time
Michel Manen: theres a motion to vote on the floor pat
Patroklus Murakami: did we lose bromo?
ThePrincess? Parisi: he crashed
Patroklus Murakami: wb bromo
Brian Livingston: wb bromo
Jon Seattle: wb Bromo 🙂
Bromo Ivory: Some sort of crash
Patroklus Murakami: ok, first vote is “is the topic ready for a vote?” if yes, we proceed to the vote, if no we table for further consideration
Brian Livingston: ack
Michel Manen: yes
Patroklus Murakami: damn, lost him again
Pelanor Eldrich: *ppof*
Brian Livingston: wb bromo
Jon Seattle: wb2 Bromo
Brian Livingston ties Bromo to his seat
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i’ll repeat for bromo
Bromo Ivory: Thanks –
Patroklus Murakami: ok, first vote is “is the topic ready for a vote?” if yes, we proceed to the vote, if no we table for further consideration
Bromo Ivory: OK
Patroklus Murakami: can i have your votes please?
Brian Livingston: nay
Patroklus Murakami: nay
Jon Seattle: votes no – lets consider it next week
ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps we shoudl have another commision to
ThePrincess? Parisi: too late
Beathan Vale: aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aah 3-3 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and no leon 🙁
ThePrincess? Parisi: no pumpkin either
Jon Seattle: Shall we toss a coin?
Bromo Ivory: (people rezzing in all of you are standing with arms outstretched)
Beathan Vale: well — tie is equivalent of a nay note
Pelanor Eldrich: yes
Bromo Ivory nods
Patroklus Murakami: yes beathan, that’s right
Pelanor Eldrich: Mind if we get into some substantive citizenship discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: the topic is not ready for a vote and so we table until next week. we can discuss further on the forums
Sleazy Writer mumbles from audience, quote RA proceedings: “If all present concur, the vote may occur at the in-world meeting. (…) if no – the subject is dorpped”
Patroklus Murakami: pel, that’s not on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: we took the vote sleazy
Patroklus Murakami: that bits about 7 day votes
Pelanor Eldrich: Howabout post meeting?
Bromo Ivory: I will be out next weekend – though the 19th – I would request a 7 day vote for next week
Patroklus Murakami: pel, we can discuss post meeting
Patroklus Murakami: no problem there
Beathan Vale: Pel — I recommend that substantive discussions be on the forums — they are abetter that way
Rose Springvale whispers at the ball …
Patroklus Murakami: yes bromo. we can do 7 day for next weeks’ session
Patroklus Murakami: oh yes, ty rose
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, fair enough Beathan.
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
Jon Seattle: Seconds that
Beathan Vale: second
Patroklus Murakami: all in favour?
Jon Seattle: Aye
Brian Livingston: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty everyone, we are adjourned
Rose Springvale: Just dropped in to remind you all that there is a ball in the schloss at 2 pm slt 🙂 and that oktoberfest will then be over
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Brian Livingston: Aww… 🙁
Sudane Erato: I have to get dressed! 🙂
The meeting closed at 13:2 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: October 14, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (197, 185, 178)

Meeting on 2007-10-14
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: could everyone pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to taking a chat log?
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: this meeting will be recorderd (as usual) and the transcript posted on the wiki
Alexicon Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: the agenda and papers are in the notecard giver on the table
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve had apologies from bromo ivory who has requested a 7-day vote on agenda items
Patroklus Murakami: i see that we are quorate so let us begin
Patroklus Murakami: item 1 is the item held over from last week, sudane’s proposal to alter the way we sell land in the CDS
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, do you have anything to add to last week’s discussion or what has been discussed on the forums?
Sudane Erato: hmm… no, nothimng to add by me
Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sleazy Writer: wb
Jon Seattle: wb Pat 🙂
Brian Livingston: I’ve just noticed somethign when reading over the text of the bill again – That is if the prervious owner forgets or neglects to inform the EO taht he sold his land to a new citizen and the fees are not paid, the community will reclaim the land, in effect penailzing the new citizen tremendously by the amount of their land purchase. This seems like we might be penalizing a party who has little control over the situation since the previous owner is the one responsible for informing the EO
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, having my own computer issues here 🙂
Patroklus Murakami reminds everyone that the green seats are for everybody, not just RA members 🙂
Sleazy Writer stays away from the seats to smell of power 🙂
Sleazy Writer: jk
Beathan Vale: I think that the nonpayment issue can be addressed with a global change — creating a probationary period prior to land being reclaimed but after fees are due in which the person is not a citizen, is informed of arrearage, and is prohibited from voting until fee is paid, but does not lose land for, say, 2 months
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the new citizen should understand that the land is not free
Sudane Erato: and that somehow it must be paid for
Sleazy Writer: Also the land will not be reclaimed if the Exec or EO sees that it has a new owner
Sudane Erato: therefore… at some point they might inquire
Sudane Erato: yes… thats coorrect
Sudane Erato: Reclaim is a last resort
Sudane Erato: and it always has been
Beathan Vale: true
Beathan Vale: Ithink that this will not be a problem given how we have handled fees in the past — but if we change how we handle fees because we grow too big or someone else becomes Estate Manager, it could become a problem — so we might as well develop some way to handle to potential problem
Sudane Erato: well, i certainly agree
Sudane Erato: this could be better refined
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess has had to leave, she tells me she’s having computer problems
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, could we pass this without the covenant text and then work that up independently? it seems to me we can separate the principle from the details of implementation
Sudane Erato: oh… sure!
Sudane Erato: the covenant text was intended as an offering
Sudane Erato: it woild help the buyer understand
Beathan Vale: PAt — yes — and I think we should
Brian Livingston: I’m not crazy about passing a bill that could result in the taking of land without due consideration
Patroklus Murakami: what do others think? i don’t see the covenant text as being something the RA should approve necessarily
Patroklus Murakami: and it allows it to be worked up without holding up the idea in principle
Sudane Erato: i agree Brian…
Sleazy Writer nods about separating text & bill
Beathan Vale: I agree with Brian — can we put this over a week and I will try to draft up an amendment in consultation with Sudane
Brian Livingston: I realize that everyone shoudl knwo that hte land is not free, but the burden is on he previous owner and the new owner has little control over hte situation
Sudane Erato: and I don’t feel that I intended, or expressed that
Sudane Erato: fine with me Beathan
Beathan Vale: It will be a friendly amendment, but I’d rather not try to wing the language now
Sudane Erato: yeah
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to wait a week for a suitable text to be developed, if that will suit better. i agree beathan about not drafting on the fly!
Brian Livingston: Heck, even state that the new owner is repsonsible for contacting the EO and then teh burden is on them and if they lose their land due to non-payment of tier, its their responsibility
Sudane Erato: its a knotty problem to have a compelling mechanism
Patroklus Murakami: all those in favour of tabling until next week, say a
Patroklus Murakami: ‘aye’
Beathan Vale: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Patroklus Murakami: that is agreed
Patroklus Murakami: next item is the amendment to NL5-9 Group Land Ownership Act that was originally submitted many months ago during the previous RA 🙂
Brian Livingston: I don’t have that on the agenda. Do you have a notecard for the new amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: sudane reminded us that this issue still needs to be resolved
Brian Livingston: Just so I can read it over
Sudane Erato: in the notecard box Brian
Patroklus Murakami: i gave u a copy too brian
Brian Livingston: Hmmm, thanks. I didn’t get one earlier when i clicked on it, btu invintory has been all weird for me today so *shrug*
Patroklus Murakami: so, just to refresh everyone’s memory 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the point of this amendment was to clarify certain issues with group ownership of land
Patroklus Murakami: it requires every citizen to make the commitment to come inworld once a month and pay their share of the monthly fee on whatever land they own
Patroklus Murakami: groups which own land on which a number of citizens claim citizenship will have to report who they are and how much they contribute
Sudane Erato: with “share” as defined by the group to which they belong, not by us
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: it also makes clear that one citizen=one avatar=one real life person
Patroklus Murakami: that’s about all. any further comments from sudane on this before i open up discussion?
Brian Livingston: Will these notices of tier allocation of whatnot be public record?
Brian Livingston: whoops,s orry.
Sudane Erato: no, i think that is a fair decription…
Patroklus Murakami: ok, let’s open it up for discussion then
Sudane Erato: the essence of it is that an “act of volition” is reqiored each month
Beathan Vale: I am concerned about the once per month requirement — it might invalidatge the citizenship of people who are committed to the CDS but who are unable to log in because a computer is in the shop or they are forward deployed military or other such
Sudane Erato: and that “act” defines citizenship
Sudane Erato: Beathan, I have in other places proposed..
Beathan Vale: I think that we need to make sure that the Chancellor can waive the requirement under proper circumstances
Sudane Erato: that if a citizen knows they will be away
Sudane Erato: for any reason
Sleazy Writer: or approve this bill but let it come into effect only later
Sudane Erato: that they simply let me know
Beathan Vale: kk
Sudane Erato: and state a date at which they will pay
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i don’t think the intention is to be draconian about this. ppl’s real lives involve all sorts of complications 🙂
Sudane Erato: i do hope that feature would not be overused
Sudane Erato: i agree Pat
Tanoujin Milestone: may we hear the answer to brian’s question?
Brian Livingston: So, just curious as to if these group allocations become a matter ofpublic record open to examinatuion by anyone or if they are considered private?
Sudane Erato: ahh… sorry
Sudane Erato: i would say that, that now…
Jon Seattle: We made a prior determination in the RA that they are private I think
Patroklus Murakami: good question brian, i must admit i hadn’t really considered that issue 🙂
Sudane Erato: that they all be public, yes
Patroklus Murakami: before we enacted group land ownership everything was public, wasn’t it?
Jon Seattle: So group membership would be public?
Sudane Erato: they have been listed on the website all along
Patroklus Murakami: names on a website next to parcel ownership and monthly fee
Sudane Erato: no, only the amount of each person’s tier
Sudane Erato: yes
Brian Livingston: I think that part of the point of this ammendment to 5-9 is that this will allow us, and by us I mean any itnersted citizen, to verify citizenship and ensure that citizens by virtue of group citizenship are indeed citizens
Jon Seattle: Ah, yes, I see.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s always been public, hasn’t it?
Brian Livingston: So I would certianly hope that hey are public and would move that they should be if a previous decision syas otherwise
Patroklus Murakami: i would prefer it to be public so that we can see who is a citizen
Sudane Erato: i agree Brian
Jon Seattle: Pat, group membership is not, but tier amounts are
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes jon, i meant before the group land ownership came in. at that time it was very clear who owned what and therefore who was a citizen
Patroklus Murakami: are we ready to vote on this proposal?
Tanoujin Milestone: may i ask if it is possible to have the citizens on the payment boxes in world?
Brian Livingston: Wait, so we won’;t know which property is granting a citizen their citizenship?
Sudane Erato: i would strongly suggest that it go to 7 days
Patroklus Murakami: we will know brian
Sudane Erato: since the CARE faction has previously been against this
Patroklus Murakami: this will go to 7 days if we decide ot take the vote
Sudane Erato: kk, sorry
Patroklus Murakami: aah, we lost jon 🙁
Sleazy Writer: woah .. lots of problem today
Patroklus Murakami: the grid gods are not smiling on us today
Brian Livingston: Ok, wonderful. I would move that the actual notice to the EO become a matter of public record to be documented somewhere for public review, be it in the locked fourm, website, or elsewhere
Patroklus Murakami: must be because i started using windows xp 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: i’m not sure this is an EO issue
Patroklus Murakami: we need at least one more RA member (e.g. Jon) in order to take the vote so I suggest we give him a few minutes to relog
Brian Livingston: Well, isn’t that who the notice will be issued to?
Sudane Erato: hmm… well, in the past its been the Treasurer, because I/she collects the fees
Sudane Erato: and the fee collection has determined who is citizen
Brian Livingston: Ah yes, sorry for the confusion
Sudane Erato: but it could be anyone
Patroklus Murakami: and then the Treasurer needs to tell the EO who is a citizen? I can’t recall sudane, in which capacity do you publish the citizens’ roll? EO or Treasurer?
Sudane Erato: i think Treasurer…
Sudane Erato: i don’t see what the EO has to do with it
Sudane Erato: but… it coiuld be anyone
Brian Livingston: It was an error ony mpart, that distinction
Patroklus Murakami: ok. in that case it is the Treasurer’s task. the EO is fairly ‘ceremonial’ as far as i’ve always been led to understand
Brian Livingston: Either way, I do feel that the recipient of the notice, in thsi case teh Treasurer, should record them somewhere for public inspection
Sudane Erato: i hope so… hehe
Sudane Erato: she is a “lackey” 🙂
Brian Livingston: lol
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i agree brian
Patroklus Murakami: well, i hope jon will be able to join us soon
Brian Livingston: Make it a seperate forum or a locked area on the wiki *shrug* the system that they are recorded on isn’t of huge concern to me as long as they are equally accessible to any interested party
Patroklus Murakami: could someone try to contact him via email and see if he’s able to make it back online?
Sudane Erato: i agree
Brian Livingston steps off soap box
Sleazy Writer is trying email
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should discuss item 3 and aim to come back to the vote on item 2 if we regain quoracy?
Brian Livingston: Got him
Brian Livingston: on gchat
Brian Livingston: He’s currently trying but being unsuccessful to log back in
Patroklus Murakami: SL has been dreadful recently
Patroklus Murakami: i went to explore an area that had disappeared from the map yesterday
Brian Livingston: his login packet keeps getting lost.
Patroklus Murakami: ended up drifting thru space forever. and then couldn’t log back in
Patroklus Murakami: tried about five time yesterday
Patroklus Murakami shakes fist at Linden Labs!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: grrrrr!
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to discuss item 3 and hope that jon rejoins us. ok?
Sudane Erato: oh… yesterday there was connectivity issues with Europe
Sudane Erato: they announced that
Patroklus Murakami: aah, that was my problem then 🙂
Sudane Erato: LL Blog
Patroklus Murakami: as well as the increase in VAT for tier 🙁
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Brian Livingston: VAT went up again?
Patroklus Murakami consider selling his land and renting in the CDS full time….
Brian Livingston: I bouth that Mainland land too early me thinks
Brian Livingston: I got it cheap but geesh
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, that was a diversion 🙂
Brian Livingston is back on track 😛
Patroklus Murakami: item 3, financial reporting bill
Patroklus Murakami: others can probably explain this better than me
Patroklus Murakami: but the main aim
Patroklus Murakami: is to get some transparency in the way that CDS finances are spent
Patroklus Murakami: the chancellor’s office is fairly new
Sudane Erato: well… i’ve not been very familiar with this bill, its quite new to me
Patroklus Murakami: and some of us are concerned that expenditure, while on desirable things, is not as transparent as it could be
Patroklus Murakami: there’s no implied criticism here, it’s just about making things clearer
Patroklus Murakami waits for ppl to read the bill and absorb…
Sudane Erato: i have asked repeatedly over the years
Sudane Erato: for a finance group…
Conover’s Flight-Helper? 6.2.5.2 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
Patroklus Murakami: yay, wb jon!
Brian Livingston: wb jon
Sudane Erato: a small group just to familiarize themselves with such details
Jon Seattle: Thanks 🙂
Sudane Erato: i see no mechanism in this bill
Sudane Erato: and without a mechanism… how it it done?
Patroklus Murakami: jon, we moved on to item 3 for a discussion. we’ll take the vote on item 2 later
Jon Seattle: I think I came in in the middle
Sudane Erato: in addition… the last line is… inflamatory
Patroklus Murakami: what do u mean by ‘mechanism’ sudane?
Sudane Erato: what is the m echanism?
Sudane Erato: i ahve proposed a committee to over see this… to do exactly this
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a mechanism for reporting, that’s all that is needed
Sudane Erato: i see no committee proposed here
Sudane Erato: or any one, for that matter, except the chancellor mentioned
Patroklus Murakami: this isn’t really connected with the ‘finance committee’ idea
Sudane Erato: in that case, how will it be done?
Sudane Erato: please explain
Jon Seattle: Yes, this is just a reporting bill.
Patroklus Murakami: what jon said
Sudane Erato: the come and expnses are reported each month
Beathan Vale: I think it can be — the Chancellor has the power to appoint deputies — and probably would do so to assist in the Chancellor review
Jon Seattle: The chancellor is responsibile for implementation – as he should be in this case.
Beathan Vale: it is true that no mechanism is set up by the proposal — but the Chancellor can and should set one up
Brian Livingston: To whom is the report made? The RA during his monthly meeting and then released on the forums, or straight to the forums?
Sudane Erato: *shrug*… ok
Jon Seattle: Yes, I agree Beathan
Beathan Vale: also, we could create legislative office similar to the US OMB — with an RA member joining the Chancellor and the Treasurer — creating a 3 person committee
Sudane Erato: that seems to politicize the finance process
Sudane Erato: if thats what you want
Beathan Vale: just a thought I just had now — but I think we wshould consider it — that would give Sudane her committee and create a multi-branch connection on finance
Patroklus Murakami: this isn’t about the budget, this is about accounting for expenditure
Jon Seattle: I don’t see how making information public politicises anything, on the contrary.
Sudane Erato: that is the same
Sudane Erato: some information can and should be made public, and other not
Sudane Erato: some group must make that determination
Sudane Erato: otherwise, I have to
Sudane Erato: and thats not healthy
Patroklus Murakami: well, i understood the finance committee idea to be about planning (budget) rather than reporting (expenditure). this proposal is just about the latter
Jon Seattle: Pat, exactly
Sudane Erato: no, its really about taking responsibility
Sudane Erato: aboit more than one person having responsibility for something as important as our money
Sudane Erato: so it is primarily management
Sudane Erato: IMO
Jon Seattle: Of the information mentioned in this bill, Sudane. what would you propose we keep secret?
Sudane Erato: the specifics you mention are all suitably published, i agree
Sudane Erato: but there is a lot of $$ data
Sudane Erato: especially when we get into loans
Sudane Erato: and tier payments
Patroklus Murakami: i think this is really dealing with a separate issue sudane
Sudane Erato: i feel that the content of what you propose here should be determined by this finance comm
Patroklus Murakami: currently, we have money being expended by the Executive Branch (and no problem as far as I’m aware with that) but no mechanism for reporting to the RA. this bill creates one, that’s it
Sleazy Writer: This can be a start, and could be refined once such a committee is found
Sudane Erato: there is a monthly report of income and expenses
Jon Seattle: But does it cover what this bill would require?
Sudane Erato: it does not include the details of the line items you mention
Sudane Erato: it possibly could
Sudane Erato: but then,
Sudane Erato: why did you leave out other things?
Sudane Erato: what was the basis here?
Jon Seattle: What other things?
Jon Seattle: Would you like us to add something?
Sudane Erato: there are issues with improving our financial accountability
Sudane Erato: lets do it right
Sudane Erato: with a small group who will look at thwe whole picture
Sudane Erato: and determine what the data to publish
Sudane Erato: then. if you feel things are missing
Jon Seattle: Sudane, that group would still have to be accontable to the RA, would you agree?
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, if u want to propose your finance comittee idea separately that’s fine
Sudane Erato: you can appeal to that group, or fire them
Patroklus Murakami: but this proposal is not about that
Patroklus Murakami: it’s about reporting executive expenditure, that’s all
Sudane Erato: accountable to the RA is fine, of course
Sudane Erato: but Pat, the expenditure line items are reported…
Sudane Erato: you just want to add detail on certain selected lines
Sudane Erato: i think those lines are appropriate
Sudane Erato: but it skirts the issue
Sudane Erato: the issue is people taking responsibility for our finances
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, i really don’t understand waht your issue is with this. what do u want added to it?
Patroklus Murakami: what is missing
Sudane Erato: what is missing is a group, rather than just me, who will take the responsibility for managing and reporting on our money
Sudane Erato: with this bill, you simply add more reporting for me to do
Jon Seattle: it seems to me that that is an additional thing we should consider — a finiance committee, but it does not decrease the need for reporting
Sudane Erato: no it does not
Sudane Erato: some reporteing is done now
Jon Seattle: And the organization of that reporting is of course, the Chancellor’s responsibility
Sudane Erato: better reporting would be great
Sudane Erato: but it sure be a shared responsibility
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be interested to hear the views of other RA members on this
Patroklus Murakami: (and btw, I’m sufferign terrible lag 4 fps right now)
Beathan Vale: I agree with Sudane — we have put a lot of burden on her, and it would be best to share the load rather than abuse her competence and willingness
Brian Livingston: *nod*
Beathan Vale: I think that reporting is a good thing — but it is an added responsbility, doing nothing to lessen the load
Patroklus Murakami: how does this add to sudane’s tasks? the bill refers to teh chancellor
Sudane Erato: haha… and how does the chancellor get this info??
Patroklus Murakami: from the PIO for example
Sudane Erato: ???
Jon Seattle: Well, this is executive expendature, are you telling me that he does not have access to that information?
Patroklus Murakami: it’s about reporting the money they spend on our behalf
Sudane Erato: he has the same access right now that everyone does
Sleazy Writer: Sudane, don’t the payment machine make an automatic report for you?
Sleazy Writer: *doesn’t
Sudane Erato: reporting on money must come from where the money goes in and out
Jon Seattle: Sudane, that means he does not have the deails on what his office is spending?
Sudane Erato: otherwise it is hearsay
Sudane Erato: he requests that I pay somebody something for some purpose
Sudane Erato: i make that payment
Sudane Erato: he might request it, and i forget to pay it
Sudane Erato: then his data would be less useful than mine
Jon Seattle: Sudane, do you know for sure that all payments are processed through you? Even when the funds involved come from a third source?
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could just cut to the issue? i.e. ‘why’ this bill is being presented? that might make things clearer
Sleazy Writer: >> You: Sudane, doesn’t the payment machine make an automatic report for you?
Sudane Erato: the payments better come thru “me”.. => the books
Sudane Erato: or else they are not community funds
Sudane Erato: i would be very unhappy if we were not accounting for all our fiunds
Sudane Erato: to say the least
Sudane Erato: and, Sleazym, yes, the payment system handles a huge proportion of the transactions
Jon Seattle: Sudane, say someone pays for something, the chancelor or some other individual, that involves an offical project. Would you know about it?
Patroklus Murakami: what about ‘committing’ funds with out authorisation? that is a developing issue
Sleazy Writer: Sudane, can you explain how much work this is for you?
Sudane Erato: if someone pays for something to someone else, without passing thru oir books, then that will have to be understodd as a personal transaction
Sudane Erato: if it is represented otherwise, that is fraud
Patroklus Murakami: what if the do it ‘on behalf of the CDS’?
Patroklus Murakami: *they
Sudane Erato: i think thats wrong
Sudane Erato: and should be absolutely prohibited
Sudane Erato: the opportunities for misuse are incredible
Sudane Erato: our money has to appear in out books
Sudane Erato: period!
Sleazy Writer: Why can’t you just hire 1 extra person without immediately talking about committees?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m calling time on this discussion at 1:30
Sudane Erato: beause its a responsibility issue
Sleazy Writer: Can you make it tangible for the RA *why* this is so much extra work? Doesn’t it overlap a lot with the administration that you already do?
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. some food for thought there
Brian Livingston: Fellow Citizens, I hate to duck out but I am feeling pretty dreadful and request ahtt a vote on this matter be moved toa 7 day
Patroklus Murakami: don’t go yet brian!
Brian Livingston: Err, I’ll try to hold out
Patroklus Murakami: we need to vote on 2 first
Brian Livingston: I thought taht was postponed for revisions?
Patroklus Murakami: can we take a vote on the amendment to groiup land ownership act?
Jon Seattle: Yes, please
Patroklus Murakami: this was teh bill i passed to you brian
Brian Livingston: Isit neccessary to include the providion for public review of records as part of this bill?
Brian Livingston: provision*
Patroklus Murakami: would it help to make that clear in the text?
Brian Livingston: I would say so, a mechanism for reporting of these notices
Patroklus Murakami: right. we’ll amend and resubmit next week
Patroklus Murakami: sorry to keep you brian 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hope you feel better soon
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sleazy Writer: get better man 🙂
Brian Livingston: No prob, I’m going to lie down and hope this headache passes
Jon Seattle: Indeed, hope you feel better!
Brian Livingston: Sorry to leave early and I’ll talk to you all later 😉
Sudane Erato: bye Brian
Alexicon Kurka: bye brian
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we table the financial reporting bill as well
Patroklus Murakami: until next time
Tanoujin Milestone: Bye, Brian! :–)
Jon Seattle: Yes, agreed
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami: well, we are no longer quorate so I suggest we adjourn. perhaps we could thrash out the remaining issues on the forums?
Beathan Vale: second
Jon Seattle: Makes sense
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty everyone for coming 🙂
Jon Seattle: Thans everyone 🙂
Sleazy Writer: thanks
Tanoujin Milestone: Bye 🙂
The meeting closed at 13:27 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: October 21, 2007

Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: How many is quorum?
Sudane Erato: 4
Sudane Erato: no Pat today?
Jon Seattle: Ah, so we are in business. Yes, Pat is away this week.
Jon Seattle: This meeting will be a bit shorter as I have a RL presentation to run to just after.
Jon Seattle: Please touch the recorder and the wine jar has today’s documents
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
Leon Ash: Evening everyone
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Since Pat is away, he has asked that we work in seven-day mode
Alexicon Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: hello all
Jon Seattle: Hi Michel
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello michel
Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Michel
Alexicon Kurka: hi leon michel
Jon Seattle: First item on the agenda is the proposal to alter the manner in which..
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: This was tabled for revision. Have the changes been completed?
Jon Seattle: Does anyone want to discuss amendments?
Jon Seattle: Brian, Sudane?
Brian Livingston: I’ve jsut gotten the noecard now so I am not prepared to comment
Jon Seattle: Hi Leon 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, i’m not aware of any changes made since the last meeting
Sudane Erato: there has been a proposal by Berathan
Sudane Erato: Beathan
Sudane Erato: to ssystematize the way land is reclaimed
Jon Seattle: yes, is Beathan’s proposal posted somewhere?
Sudane Erato: i have it… otherwise, i don’t know
Sudane Erato: it is a routine system… with notices
Sudane Erato: its very good
Jon Seattle: Is it short enough to paste?
Sudane Erato: just a large burden of notices
Jon Seattle: Or we can distribute a notecard
Leon Ash: Just to make sure noone thinks I’m rude. Evening everyone. Not sure my first greeting ended up in the public 🙂
Sudane Erato: hold on… i’ll find it… didn’t know i was presenting it
Jon Seattle: Sudane, sorry about that, just lacking Beathan 🙂
Jon Seattle: Thank you!
Tanoujin Milestone: thanks
Brian Livingston: thanks
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you very much
Sudane Erato: whew! 🙂
Jon Seattle: So this requires, really, three months before the land is reclaimed.
Sudane Erato: lots of people 🙂
Jon Seattle: Is that the same as now?
Sudane Erato: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: wow thats a long time to eat the tiers
Sudane Erato: which is what it effectively has taken anyway
Sudane Erato: i never felt right to rush someone out
Jon Seattle: I propose that we vote on the amendment and then vote on the bill.
ThePrincess? Parisi: weare very generous
Jon Seattle: Sudane, are there any changes in this you would make?
Sudane Erato: well, i discussed it briefly with Beathan
Sudane Erato: and the only issue is the burden of notices
Sudane Erato: but… that can be fixed… we both agreed
Sudane Erato: thius the “automation” clause
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Any other discussion on this?
Brian Livingston: Ok, so an extension of the current paymet suystem, whcih reminds us via IM?
Sudane Erato: thats the idea, yes
Jon Seattle: I move that we vote on the amendment. Any seconds?
Sleazy Writer: Evening Beathan
Brian Livingston: Hi Beathan
Beathan Vale: hello all
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi beathan
Leon Ash: Hi Beathan
Beathan Vale: big turnout today
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi beathan! We were just talking about you
Tanoujin Milestone: Beathan 🙂
Sleazy Writer: your reclaiming amendment/procedure is up for voting
Beathan Vale: kk
Beathan Vale: any questions I missed?
Jon Seattle: Please click the recorder and the wine jar for documents.
Jon Seattle: We are about to vote on your amendment
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: on land reclamation
Jon Seattle: I moved that we vote, does anyone want to second?
Brian Livingston: Seconded
Jon Seattle: Everyone in favor (RA members) please say Aye. This is the amendment on reclamation.
Beathan Vale: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: no
Leon Ash votes Aye
Jon Seattle: Since we have a quarum I am going to take the bill as amended.
Jon Seattle: Any discussion before we vote on the bill?
Jon Seattle: (period passes here..)
Gxeremio Dimsum has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: I move that we vote on the bill “Proposal to alter the manner in which citizens may sell their land in the CDS”
Jon Seattle: Anyone want to second that?
Beathan Vale: second
Jon Seattle: Please vote aye or no..
Jon Seattle: Aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Sudane Erato: and, clarification… this includes the “Reclamation” ammendment?
Jon Seattle: Yes, this includes the reclamation amendment
Brian Livingston: aye
Leon Ash vote Aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: no
Jon Seattle: Okay, one item finished 🙂
Beathan Vale: brb
Jon Seattle: Pat’s agenda says “citizenship act” but I assume he means the group act
Brian Livingston: I as going to inquire about that
Brian Livingston: was*
Jon Seattle: Amendment to NL5-9 Group Land Ownership Act
Jon Seattle: I think, we started discussion last week.
Jon Seattle: Lets continue discussion..
Beathan Vale: back
Jon Seattle: Any comments on this?
Jon Seattle: I do like that it requires group members to show up to pay their fees each month. It seems the least that could be expected..
Brian Livingston: I would like an amendment stipulating that the lists of citizens by virtue of group land ownership be available for public inspection
Brian Livingston: Perhaps as part of paragraph 2
Beathan Vale: I think that this bill is a good compromise step towards an expanded citizenship without opening the door wide to the thousande firends and alts problem
Jon Seattle: Brian, do you have some text for the proposed amendment?
Beathan Vale: Brian — good idea — but isn’t that already done with the genearl citizen list?
Leon Ash: I support Brian’s suggestion that the group land ownership be available for public inspection
Beathan Vale: I would not want to stignatize citizens who are members of a grou by creating a special separate list of them
Jon Seattle: Well, Brian’s proposal would like citizens that are citizens by virtue of group ownership I think — an extra “flag”
Tanoujin Milestone: if they had a paymentbox like everyone else?
Jon Seattle: *indicate
Jon Seattle: Tan, yes, they would under the original bill.
Tanoujin Milestone: ty
Beathan Vale: I need to think about that amendment a bit
Jon Seattle: Should we vote on the amendment or put this off for seven day? I am happy with either.
Leon Ash: I think it would be inappropriate to vote prior to the ‘ammendements’ added?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with Leon
Jon Seattle: yes, we are not yet talking about voting on the bill
Brian Livingston: Actually, it could simply be that the official land deed lists all of the group members on it, if at all possible
Jon Seattle: just on the amendment.
Brian Livingston: Hmm
Beathan Vale: on further thought – -I oppose the amendment as it would potentially stigmatize citizens sho are citizens by virtue of group membership — but I would support the bill even if amended
Sudane Erato: is the ammendment in print?
Brian Livingston: Not yet, only in theory really
Sleazy Writer: Or could someone please paste the amendment in the chat again please?
Jon Seattle: Brian do you have some text? I can copy from the transcript
Brian Livingston: The ammendment would adda t the end of Paragraph two: LIsts provided to the Treasurer will becoem a matter of public record, available for inspection upon request.
Brian Livingston: Wow, typo hell there
Sudane Erato: such a citizenship list is currently posted on the website
Sudane Erato: we try to keep it up to date
Beathan Vale: yes — but this one would be a separate list of citizens who are citizens by virtue of group memebership, yes?
Jon Seattle: lol, we can clean it up later. Do you mean that it should indicate who has citizenship just by virtue of group ownership?
Beathan Vale: or a lsit of citizens who are also members of groups …
Beathan Vale: I’m not sure
Brian Livingston: No, not a lsit of just group members but rather the actual declarations. There is a distinction of sorts
Sudane Erato: thats, thats an odd requirement
ThePrincess? Parisi: why are you so concerned about that beathan?
Beathan Vale: I don’t like the idea of special lists of citizens that divide people out — it either smacks of privilege or of blacklisting
Sudane Erato: i agree
Michel Manen: same here
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you me too
Brian Livingston: Hmm, not the intention of the amendment, but i do concede your point
Rose Springvale: point of clarification?
Michel Manen: all this of course would be avoided by a citizenship based ona a fee lol
Jon Seattle: Brian, do you want to withdraw or continue with the proposed amendment?
Rose Springvale: does this mean that any land can support as many citizens as it can be divided by 128 m?
Brian Livingston: So under this bill, to clarify, without any amendments, each group member who is a citizen by virtue of said membership will have a payment box and be listed on the CDS website along side all other citizens, correct?
Beathan Vale: and is owned by a group
Brian Livingston is sufferign terrible chat lag
Michel Manen: if we disconnect citizenship and land ownership this is no longer an issue and we can administer both rationally and efficeintly
ThePrincess? Parisi: good question rose
Leon Ash: I’m sorry, I assumed the list of all residents would be public? Saw no divide in the proposal?
Jon Seattle: Brian, yes that is my understanding
Beathan Vale: MM — but that is a bad idea for many other reasons
Sudane Erato: Leon, such a list is already public
Beathan Vale: Leon – -there are already is such a list
Brian Livingston: In that case, I do withdraw my proposal as it is a mute issue
Beathan Vale: kk
Michel Manen: lol jusst an aside i dont want to start a debate
Gxeremio Dimsum: What if one group member doesn’t pay on their part of the group costs?
Sudane Erato: thats in there, Gx
Beathan Vale: Gx — we can use a process simular to the reclamation proces we just passed in such case
Michel Manen: yes sudane i saw you updated the list thank you . its seems were now down nto 67 citizens
Beathan Vale: notice — provisional citizenship, ultimate loss of citizenship
Rose Springvale: hmm
Gxeremio Dimsum: and the land itself?
Jon Seattle: Since the amendment is withdrawn, any discussion on the bill itself?
Rose Springvale: no one responded to my question
Beathan Vale: land payment would be a separate issue — the gorup would have to keep land fees current to support its citizens
Sudane Erato: well, Beathan, the Reclamation procedure would not be able to be applied exactly in this situation
Sudane Erato: sibnce the land is group owned
Beathan Vale: Sudane — true — it would have to be adopted
Beathan Vale: and the Estate Owner should not be the person charged with it
Beathan Vale: Maybe a special master of groups
Sudane Erato: but there is a clause in there to deal with this
Beathan Vale: a new position under the Chancellor
Leon Ash: On apoint of clarity. I’m assuming each ‘citizen’ who is a citizen by group membership would be listed as a citizen?
Jon Seattle: Rose, I am not sure why can answer your question other than the text of the bill. Please click the wine jar for all documents.
Rose Springvale: i have it jon
Rose Springvale: just trying to clarify
Rose Springvale: and i have another question
Sleazy Writer: Leon > of course, why not?
Leon Ash: And each citizen has an amount due ‘monthly’, is this publicly listed somewhere?
Jon Seattle: yes, Rose, please go ahead.
Rose Springvale: in my group, i have a partner who is very intermittent in his logging in.. jeremy
Rose Springvale: yet he has a substantial investment in the land
Rose Springvale: not sure what happens if he doesn’t log in to pay his 100 L
Rose Springvale: to my group or land
Rose Springvale: are we in default?
Sudane Erato: there can be group members who are not necessarily citizens
Rose Springvale: hmm
Beathan Vale: nothing should happen to the group or land — only to Jemery’s citizen status — yes?
Brian Livingston: Leon> I would assume that would be available on the land fee list that lists how much each citizen owes
Rose Springvale: yet
Rose Springvale: if he is going to own land here
Rose Springvale: and has invested
Jon Seattle: My understanding of the bill (and this is just from reading it) is that if that person is a citizen they would have to show up to pay once a month or else trigger the standard procedure.
Rose Springvale: why should he be deprived of the right to vote?
Rose Springvale: not practical for our situation
Rose Springvale: but w/e
Rose Springvale: there is always discussion about how the forum is another way to participate
Sudane Erato: well, we have no other way of knowing that he remains a citizen
Rose Springvale: doing this means that logging into the game is necessary
Sudane Erato: thats the point of the bill…
Rose Springvale: i see
Sudane Erato: if another method is agreed upon… great!
Beathan Vale: Rose — I am a bit uncomfortable with that specific obigation
Michel Manen: this is btw one ofthe reasons i resigned fro mthe RA in May
Sudane Erato: its just that i have been asked each election cycle
Sudane Erato: to indicate who is a citizen
Sudane Erato: and i have no idea except for those who pay each month
Rose Springvale: hmm
Jon Seattle: Lets discuss this for five minutes, and if we are not ready to vote by then, pass it to seven day
Rose Springvale: except as we tell you
Michel Manen: restriction of citizenship rights and membership is just not acceptable in my opinion – and this inposition of a physicala reqjuirement to paay every m onth does just that
Gxeremio Dimsum: Is there any way for a citizen to pay ahead on her fees?
Sudane Erato: exactly
Rose Springvale: or pay from off world
Sudane Erato: no, not at this time
Sudane Erato: neither
Jon Seattle: Any more discussion?
Rose Springvale: i’d just like to say
Rose Springvale: that it seems to me if we allow group ownership
Sleazy Writer: Rose, if Jeremy wants to be IN second life, what’s wrong with asking him to log INTO second life? this is as logical as it gets 🙂
Rose Springvale: it makes more sense to have a group spokesman
Rose Springvale: well sleazy
Michel Manen: no i dont agree
Rose Springvale: jeremy travels abroad a lot
Rose Springvale: and he has a computer that crashes with every sl update
Michel Manen: these are entirely exclusioary and restrictive measures
Rose Springvale: and he has been ill for over six weeks
Rose Springvale: so it isn’t practical for him to go through the effort of logging in
Beathan Vale: MM 0 I still see this as an expansion of citizenship, although with limits
Rose Springvale: when he can still communiicate by emale and read forums
Michel Manen: designed toi keep down menmergship numbers and strictly control who joinss and who doesnt by imposing a physical payment requirement
Sudane Erato: not even once a month?
Beathan Vale: a small step forward is still a step forward, yes?
Rose Springvale: sudane, the reality of sl
Rose Springvale: is that if you could just log in once a month
Sudane Erato: seems like a pretty small requirement to demonstrate participation
Michel Manen: and i think its entirely conterproductive and frankly, undemocratic
Rose Springvale: withohut updating softwayre
Rose Springvale: whatever
Rose Springvale: okay
Beathan Vale: ye s– MM – you said that when you resigned… it is as silly a position today as it was then
Jon Seattle: I want to hear from RA members only for this next question. Please indicate if you feel we are ready to vote on this bill. Yes or no. If no, we will pass it to seven day.
Michel Manen: well then Beathtan we disagrree – not the first or last time
Beathan Vale: yes
Jon Seattle: Yes, I am ready to vote.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i see your point rose, but we do need a way to know that citizens are active and valid..
Brian Livingston: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do have sticks with me boys 🙂
Beathan Vale: yes — theP — exactly
Jon Seattle: ol
Michel Manen: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: but it might not be through land
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe there is another way
Michel Manen: of course
Jon Seattle: Leon?
Beathan Vale: TheP — also right — but I think that can be worked out through future refinement of citizenship — this discussion is ongoing, and the definition of a citizen is a process that will not end with passage of this bill
Michel Manen: well we cant really dissociate one from the other
Gxeremio Dimsum: perhaps we should find a way to move our web discussion forum entirely in-world, since that is the primary means of community participation for many people.
ThePrincess? Parisi: shall we work on that then Beathan?
Michel Manen: and enact resrictive and discriminatory legislation
Jon Seattle: Well, I move we vote to approve this amendment; Any one want to second?
Michel Manen: on the basis that sometime in the futere we’ll get around to fixinf it
ThePrincess? Parisi: seems we are still discussing Jon
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said if we are then we will wait
Beathan Vale: GX — I would favor an amendment to this that make psoting on the forum an acceptable form of participation – -as in log in once per month or post on the forum once per month
Beathan Vale: MM — that’s life
Beathan Vale: at least — that’s living life in a wise way
Jon Seattle: ThePrincess?, I am calling a halt to discussion for this meeting and moment.. as we just decided to vote
Michel Manen: no theres nothing wiwse abotu thtat Beathan
ThePrincess? Parisi: let me read back, sorry
Leon Ash: Sorry, I can’t see any voting taking place, but I vote Aye
Jon Seattle: I move that we pass the amendment in question. Once again, anyone willing to second that motion?
Brian Livingston: The amendment to 5-9, correct?
Beathan Vale: second
Jon Seattle: Thanks Beathan 🙂
Jon Seattle: Amendment to NL5-9 Group Land Ownership Act
Jon Seattle: Please vote yea or no
Beathan Vale: aye
Jon Seattle: votes aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Brian Livingston: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: votes no
Jon Seattle: Lets quickly jump to the teleportation act, the last item on the agenda
Jon Seattle: I have only a few minutes and then must run.
ThePrincess? Parisi: Teleportation Impovement Act , Actually
Brian Livingston: This seems like legislation that is going to require more discussion than a few mintues, especially given that it has been introduced formalyl for less than a day
Jon Seattle: The Princess, would you like to introduce this bill?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a citizen who is very intersted in this bill.. one of many
Jon Seattle: Brian, yes, I suspect we will just start the discussion today
Brian Livingston stands corrected, just over a day
ThePrincess? Parisi: one who is here today.. and though i have had many talk to me about this iissue befroe this bill was writlen
Beathan Vale: I think that this idea has been bounced around for a long time — long enough to vote on
ThePrincess? Parisi: Alex .. thanks fo rbeing here
ThePrincess? Parisi: excuse me ?
Alexicon Kurka: I think this is not the first time u discuss the manner of teleportation
Alexicon Kurka: it is a returning subject
Alexicon Kurka: and the proposal is for a trial
ThePrincess? Parisi: forgood reason
Beathan Vale: and this bill sets up a test case
Alexicon Kurka: I have just moved in and have negative effects already on my commercial activities
ThePrincess? Parisi: and it has NOT been discussed in this session has it?
Brian Livingston: If this bill is passed, I see no reason for a difference in tier costs though, and believe they should be reassessed
Beathan Vale: it does not permanently change anything – -it is a very modest and measured way to testing this concept
Alexicon Kurka: and I think the tiers could be discussed as well as part of the final solution
Beathan Vale: yes — tiers should not be tied to a test statute
Michel Manen: lol we never have final solutions in CDS lol
Jon Seattle: Brian I agree ultimatly, though this is just experimental
Alexicon Kurka: the forum keeps its strategic positioning anyway, all roads lead to the fotum
Alexicon Kurka: forum*
ThePrincess? Parisi: the central hub remains tied to the land advertisments
ThePrincess? Parisi: so there is still advantage
Brian Livingston: Now, from my limited knowledge of Estate settings, there is a simple check box that is set to allow for Direct TP, correct?
Jon Seattle: Yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: true
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Alexicon Kurka: sl can be simple some times
Jon Seattle: This would involve turning on that feature I assume
Beathan Vale: so — should be make this a paid service — a surcharge on tier for the rithgt to direct teleport?
Brian Livingston: This bill states that only LMs and TP requests would be granted a direct TP, all others would rotue hrought he central TP point. Is that how this would work?
Beathan Vale: hmmm … or would that be a chill on commerce …
Brian Livingston: I thoguht direct TP would mean you can truely TP into any spot that the landowner has not deemed off limits
ThePrincess? Parisi: ? beathan
Jon Seattle: lol, I can see this getting complex Beathan
Beathan Vale: TheP — just spitballing here — I still support the bill as presented
Alexicon Kurka: brian, I think that is the intention indeed
ThePrincess? Parisi doesnt like spitballs
ThePrincess? Parisi: gross
Brian Livingston: But is it possible?
Jon Seattle: Brian, if someone went to “Colonia Nova” in general they would land at the landing point
Beathan Vale: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: true Jon
Jon Seattle: Brian, I depends on how they found their destination
Jon Seattle: It
Beathan Vale: spitballing — To make a suggestion loosely, often one that goes against common logic.
Leon Ash: Could this be made a decision of all the current CN residents? Maybe a forum based vote? Or is that no feasible?
Jon Seattle: lol,Beathan
Rose Springvale: as far as the ‘surcharge”
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks i still dont like spti
Leon Ash: not*
ThePrincess? Parisi: spit
Gxeremio Dimsum: but if tps are turned on, and i use the map and click on a location, i would go directly to that location without a landmark or TP request.
Rose Springvale: LL charges for classified ads
Jon Seattle: Since this is just an experiment, I personally support it.
ThePrincess? Parisi: please let rose talk
Jon Seattle: I do think that Brian is right, we have to revist our tier policies if we make this permenant
Rose Springvale: no, that’s all i had to say. Anyone who puts a classified in to get people to their store has to pay already
Rose Springvale: i think Alex had statistics on that
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can easily track traffic..
Brian Livingston: Now, I will say out of personal experience that when I palced a classified, it didn’t show on the map which I was told had to do with the fact that Direct TP is not enabled. Is that the case?
Jon Seattle: Are we ready to vote? RA members, please say yes or no.
Beathan Vale: yes
Jon Seattle: I am ready
ThePrincess? Parisi: i belive CNs traffic will rise..and that is the main compaint
Rose Springvale: brian, i know what that is now .. will tell you afterwards
Alexicon Kurka: true I pay a subtier on my classifieds, and there is difference in the number of tp from there and the number of visitors in my plot
Jon Seattle: ThePrincess?, Leon, Brian?
ThePrincess? Parisi: of course
Brian Livingston: i suppose
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have done some citizen polling
Jon Seattle: Pricess, do you move that this be adopted?
Jon Seattle: *Princess
ThePrincess? Parisi: The
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Beathan Vale: I second
Jon Seattle: Good, please vote Aye or no..
Beathan Vale: aye
Jon Seattle: votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: votes aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Tanoujin Milestone: Hello Gwyneth 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello gweyn
Jon Seattle: Good 🙂 I would go though asking people to vote on adjournment, but I really have to run
Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn 🙂
Beathan Vale: Hi Gwyn — I’m sorry I missed your SLBA presentation
Alexicon Kurka: hi gwyneth
Sudane Erato: so that last measure is passed?
Jon Seattle: So I ask your forgiveness, but the meeting is adjouned 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s ok, Beathan there will be more!
Rose Springvale: thank you all for this teleportion improvement
Sudane Erato: and we should reset the sim?
Rose Springvale: i think it will help eveyrone
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Jon Seattle: Sudane, yes I beleive it is.
ThePrincess? Parisi: THAT YOU JON
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay.. thanks everyone
Brian Livingston: Hmm, we’ll see in three months
Alexicon Kurka: thak you all for the adecuate anticipation
Rose Springvale: don’t worry brian 🙂
The meeting closed at 13:18 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: October 28, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (197, 185, 178)

Meeting on 2007-10-28
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent for the transcript
Patroklus Murakami: notecards are in the dispenser on the table
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: dnate has asked if we could take the chancellor’s questions first
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
Patroklus Murakami: hi theprincess 🙂
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: loving the moves btw 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: well thats me.. lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: yaya ThePrincess? 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: chairdancing, that’s novel 🙂
Jon Seattle: hi ThePrincess?
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ill go and come back
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: my club opens today
Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have questions for dnate? it’s some time since we last had a Q&A session
Brian Livingston is sincerely worried about being smacked by a flailing arm :p
Sudane Erato: hehe
Beathan Vale: brb
Patroklus Murakami: i have some, if no one else wants to jump in 🙂
Brian Livingston: Go for it Pat
Jon Seattle listens
Patroklus Murakami: dnate, could you update us on progress on the web portal?
Dnate Mars: Actually, not really
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s my first question. i’ll ask the others after 🙂
Dnate Mars: I need to get an update form some other people before I can really give any more info one what is happening with it
ThePrincess? Parisi: can someone tp me
Dnate Mars: I will find out what I can within the week
Patroklus Murakami: well, the reason i ask is that the bill was passed some time ago and it was clear what needed to take place. has anything happened on it?
Beathan Vale: back
Dnate Mars: Some has, but others have been taking the lead on the project
Patroklus Murakami: the bill anticipated having legislation drawn up and enacted by now. perhaps that was a bit ambitious 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: I always opposed that part of the bill
Dnate Mars: Getting any group of people to do much is a tough task in of itself
Patroklus Murakami: well, it does need to be taken forward. when do you think you might have more progress to report dnate?
Dnate Mars: I know that some work has been done, but I will find out what the status is, hopefully this week
Sudane Erato: hi Yogeswari 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty, that would be very welcome
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi yogeswari
Yogeswari Padar: hi all
Tanoujin Milestone: i say hi all too 🙂
Sleazy Writer: Hi Yoge & Tan
Patroklus Murakami: anyone else have questions for dnate? otherwise i’ll continue 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: (hi to everyone)
ThePrincess? Parisi: will you be a pumkin after halloween?
Jon Seattle: Hi Yoge!
Jon Seattle: Hi Tan 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
Dnate Mars: It remains to be seen 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi winks
Beathan Vale: brb
Brian Livingston: brb
Patroklus Murakami: my second question is about the government question hour. we had two really sucessful ones a while back. when do u think we might be able to hold another? the original bill envisaged weekly question hours
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do think that is a good idea
Sleazy Writer nods from audience 🙂
Brian Livingston: back
Dnate Mars: I think weekly is just too much, it is really hard to get everyone there for an hour
ThePrincess? Parisi: wb b
Patroklus Murakami: i thought they were very helpful, we got good attendance and interest from people
ThePrincess? Parisi: monthly?
Dnate Mars: but I do hope to get them to be at least twice a month form here on hout
Dnate Mars: out*
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think one time a month is enough
Patroklus Murakami: that would be excellent. i look forward to attending those
Dnate Mars: Octoberfest sort of screwed up Oct planning, but I hope to have one this week
Patroklus Murakami: ty dnate 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: final question from me regards franchulate applications. we won’t be going through the detail in RA meetings I hope but, do you have all you need to progress the applications that have come through dnate?
Dnate Mars: Well, I am still processing them, but it seems good so far
Beathan Vale: back\
Dnate Mars: They will be finished within the 30 days that I have accourding to the Law
Patroklus Murakami: ok. good to hear that 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: any questions from anyone else for our chancellor before we move on?
Patroklus Murakami: (we swapped items 1 &2 btw)
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you forbeing here dnate
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, well shall we set 25 Nov as the date for the next Chancellor’s questions?
Dnate Mars: oh, that won’t work
Patroklus Murakami: 18?
Dnate Mars: that is Thanksgiving in the US for me…
ThePrincess? Parisi: and me
Dnate Mars: before or after is fine with me
Patroklus Murakami: i imagine we might be thin on the ground that day!
Sudane Erato: yes, our big turkey slaughter day
Brian Livingston: Woo!
ThePrincess? Parisi: and big bellys
Sleazy Writer: 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: and we havelots of pumpkin pie..
Patroklus Murakami: let’s say 18 Nov then. and ty to dnate for coming and answering questions today
Dnate Mars: eep!
ThePrincess? Parisi: yeaah!!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Dnate Mars: as long as it doesn’t use my head….
Dnate Mars: 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: can we turn to the ‘financial reporting bill’ now?
ThePrincess? Parisi: well dnate
ThePrincess? Parisi gets serious
Dnate Mars: Ok, I must run. I will see you all later
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: see you, chef 🙂
Sleazy Writer: see ya!
Patroklus Murakami: bye 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
Sleazy Writer: chef de cuisine?
Jon Seattle: See you 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: who would like to introduce this bill?
Sudane Erato: its the same as last week, no?
Patroklus Murakami: yes sudane
Jon Seattle: I have a question. Sudane, is there are legilation that has been submitted that would establish financial oversight — the committee you mentioned.
Sudane Erato: no, not that i know of
Jon Seattle: (It as been introduced a couple of times now.. 😀 )
Sudane Erato: although I have brought it up as a topic before
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: let’s try to keep those issue separate
Patroklus Murakami: we don’t have a bill proposing a finance committee before us today
Patroklus Murakami: but we do have a bill regarding transparency in the use of funds by the executive
Patroklus Murakami: i’d prefer it if we could focus on the merits and problems with this bill rather than the wider set of issues
Sudane Erato: question
Patroklus Murakami: yes, sudane?
Sudane Erato: it seems to be quite clear that All Income is required to be listed… does that include tier?
Sleazy Writer: I think the bill can be amended to exclude that, or only include a total for that, right?
Jon Seattle: Yes, my preference would be for a total only.
Patroklus Murakami: ‘all income… by the executive branch’ suggests that it includes tier payments as the EO is part of the executive branch. i think that’s correct, isn’t it?
Beathan Vale: I prefer total as well
ThePrincess? Parisi: why not the tiers?
Jon Seattle: Certainly not by individual
ThePrincess? Parisi: there have been tier problems right?
Beathan Vale: but not tier-by-tier — but as a lump sum
Sudane Erato: but everything else requested seems to be by individual ietm, no?
Patroklus Murakami: though i don’t think that was the intention of the bill 🙂
Beathan Vale: treat indiv tiers as payment to the land owner — and the report item as the single itel payment of th elandowner to the CDS
Jon Seattle: Sudane, one thing we want to protect against is finding, somwhere down the road, as I understand we did with UZ that we have been receiving financial contributions that have not been make public.
Sudane Erato: the Land Owner… the EO… needs only to receive enough funds to pay the LL tier
Sudane Erato: the amounts are not the same
Jon Seattle: In the case of tier it is a contractual
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i am not usre if this is relevant, but how about when teirs are not paid, i have a anticdotal .. unconfirmed that tiers dont get paid all the time and not mentioned does this matter
Patroklus Murakami: is the problem that this would require too much book-keeping? i.e. unnecessary work when the real issue is with relation to gifts and payments?
Sudane Erato: the bookkeeping is already done
Sleazy Writer: example: 3rd party funding for events could be very useful, but there needs to be some reviewing of this
Patroklus Murakami: do we need to know on a month by month basis who is behind with their rent? seems a bit too much like public shaming
Sudane Erato: and all “gifts”, should there actually be any, are already recorded
Sudane Erato: what is “3rd party funding for events”?
Patroklus Murakami: sleazy? could you elaborate?
Patroklus Murakami: sudane, i imagine that means when some 3rd party pays for an event to be held in the CDS as a ‘CDS event’
Patroklus Murakami: hopefully sleazy can correct me if my interpretation is incorrect
ThePrincess? Parisi: i tihnk we need to know who is behind even if it is nto shared with the publuc
Sudane Erato: i would say that nothing falls into that catagory unless the funds go thru our books
Sudane Erato: in which case the information is available
Beathan Vale: Sleazy — unless we receive rent for the space — what is the income to the CDS from such events?
Beathan Vale: seems revenue neutral to me
ThePrincess? Parisi: most venues have tip jars.. we dont
ThePrincess? Parisi: when i go to live events
ThePrincess? Parisi: here we just tip the performers
Sleazy Writer is absent (minded)
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol sleazy
Sleazy Writer: (yes I mean that when a 3rd party funds a ‘CDS event’, there needs to be someone reviewing that, I guess this bill means the RA wants to do it for free! 😉 )
Patroklus Murakami: is there an issue with including tier payments? can we just insert “(bar the monthly fees)” after ‘income’?
Patroklus Murakami: hmmm. everyone’s very quiet today 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: is it because this bill is uncontroversial?
ThePrincess? Parisi: that woudl be a first
Sudane Erato: well, you all know that it makes no sense to me
Beathan Vale: well — we’ve discussed this bill twice already
Patroklus Murakami: ok, are we ready to vote then? please say aye or nay to taking a vote
Beathan Vale: aye
Jon Seattle: Let me propose one small amendment
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Jon Seattle: Aftet the first paragraph, add: The report should include the total tier received, but need not list it by individual.
Jon Seattle: otherwise aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we vote that way?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: jon 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i probably shouldn’t take an amendment in the middle of a vote but.. is that acceptable?
Beathan Vale: I support that amendment — and this bill in principle — but I think that the financial reports Sundae preps atm are already useful and detailed — an I don’t want to increase the burden of her job without giving her more help by forming a finanacial committee — therefore, even as amended, I will vote nay on this bill on the terms presented
Patroklus Murakami: right, let’s vote on the bill as amended by jon
Patroklus Murakami: please say aye or nay
Jon Seattle: votes aye
Beathan Vale: nay – for reasons stated
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Brian Livingston: nay, for the reasons stated by Beathan
ThePrincess? Parisi: eh leon is online
Patroklus Murakami: okay, that’s 3-2 and we await leon and bromo’s votes by 7-day
Brian Livingston: Hi Leon 🙂
Leon Ash: Evening everyone
Patroklus Murakami: hi leon. welcome 🙂 did u get caught by the time change?
Tanoujin Milestone: Leon 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Leon,
Leon Ash: Seems like it Pat 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: leon, we just took a vote on the financial reporting bill, as amended by jon
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not going to make you vote on it now! you only just got here
Leon Ash: I completely forgot that SL time wouldn’t move an hour as well 🙂
Leon Ash: let me just look through it quickly
Patroklus Murakami: are you happy to cast your vote over the next 7 days? or mad keen to do it now?
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: just let me find jon’s amendment
Patroklus Murakami: “Jon Seattle: Aftet the first paragraph, add: The report should include the total tier received, but need not list it by individual.”
Jon Seattle: amendment: The report should include the total tier received, but not list it by individual.
Leon Ash: Ooops, wrong window. I vote in favour of the bill, ie. Aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty leon 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: that’s 4-2 and we await bromo’s vote. but with a majority, it passes
Patroklus Murakami: i have no further items on today’s agenda. i propose we adjourn. okay?
Jon Seattle: s 🙂
Brian Livingston: second
Jon Seattle: *yes
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok and grand opening of my club lips if anyone wants to pop in .. DJ Bells is there now
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: now, let those who wish to go and party!
The meeting closed at 12:58 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: November 18, 2007

Patroklus Murakami: ok recording 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: let’s begin
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: pls click the recorder yada yada yada and get a notecard agenda from the wooden box on the table
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: first item – budget and process
Patroklus Murakami: sudane has reminded us that we have not yet had a budget for this term
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we would like to have one 🙂
Jon Seattle: Indeed
Patroklus Murakami: so can we agree to request a budget from our treasurer?
Patroklus Murakami waits for people to say ‘yes’
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Leon Ash: yes
Jon Seattle: well, I think it may be something the chancellor should oversee
Jon Seattle: yes
Patroklus Murakami: well lets move on to process
Jon Seattle: it really is the operations budget, and thus deals with issues that have to do with the entire executive branch
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: there does not seem to be one. at least none from the laws and constitution that i could find
Patroklus Murakami: how do you think we ought to set the budget? what should the process be?
Leon Ash: Does anyone know how it has been done it the past?
Jon Seattle: Has the RA every had to request a budget before? Or has it always been prepared by the executive?
Patroklus Murakami: good qn leon 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: if sudane were here she could probably tell us
ThePrincess? Parisi: shes at guild
Patroklus Murakami: ah yes. they’re still debating the AM covenants
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Jon Seattle: Pat, during your prior session in the RA how was it donw?
Jon Seattle: *done
Patroklus Murakami: hi MT 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t recall right now jon
Jon Seattle: Hi MT 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i seem to recall that a budget ‘appeared’ and we approved it
Patroklus Murakami: that’s about it 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: what do we think ought to happen?
Jon Seattle: The initial operations budget should be presented by the executive at the bigninng of the session. The RA making its revisions and then passing it as a bill.
Patroklus Murakami: shd the budget be based on a pre-budget discussion in the RA? that would allow the new RA to outline its priorities for expenditure
Jon Seattle: Most of the budget is routine I think, mainly dealing with tier and land sales, etc.
Leon Ash: Pat, I believe that we should discuss costs of upcoming plans prior to the budget, i.e. a pre-budget discussion.
Patroklus Murakami: yes. that’s true. but this RA has apportioned an events budget and future RAs may wish to set out their spending plans before the Treasurer/Exec puts pen to paper
Leon Ash: That way we have more knowledge about the budget so we can make an informed discion ? And now I can’t spell
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we see the last budget? does anyone have that
Patroklus Murakami: leon, i agree. i think a pre-budget discussion would be helpful
Jon Seattle: I have an old one I think. Let me see.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i like to look at the previous .. and see what came of those numbers thank you
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you very much
Jon Seattle: lol, I found the same one that you found
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i just handed out the last budget i had in my inventory
Patroklus Murakami: i think it would be more helpful to give direction about the discretionary spending before this is drawn up than after. but i think the RA should vote on any expenditure at least once per term
Patroklus Murakami: *and i think *
Jon Seattle: Yes, it should.
Patroklus Murakami: so. we should ask sudane to prepare a similar budget with the following considerations – new sim, web portal, oktoberfest, events budget, winter holidays. does that sound like a sensible startng point?
ThePrincess? Parisi: sounds good
Leon Ash: yep
Jon Seattle: why not the executive branch?
Jon Seattle: Yes, that makes sense.
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi bromo
Bromo Ivory: Hi Princess
Patroklus Murakami: yes, there should be a line for ‘the executive branch’ which would encompass some of those items
Jon Seattle: Hi Bromo
Jon Seattle: I mean, why do we not make the executive responsible for drawing up the original budget?
Jon Seattle: Or is this something that should be independant?
Leon Ash: Hi Bromo
Jon Seattle: In theory Sudane reports to DNate in this case.
Bromo Ivory: Hi Leon!
Bromo Ivory: Hi Jon!
Bromo Ivory: (Catching up to Chat)
Patroklus Murakami: jon. i’m not too fussed provided whoever draws up the budget does so on the basis of RA priorities
Jon Seattle: Okay 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we want the budget to pass by the RA so want it to reflect what we want
Patroklus Murakami: if its’ the Treasurer responsibility or Chancellor responsiblility i’m fine with it
Jon Seattle: Indeed, and in fact I suppose if the RA does not approve the executive will have no mony to spend.
Beathan Vale: I like the submission process — budget submitted to Ra for review and approval — it does not seem to matter who draws up the draft as long as it is reviewed and “vetted” by the RA
Patroklus Murakami: indeed 🙂
Bromo Ivory agrees with Beathan
Bromo Ivory: as long as it is clear
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Beathan Vale: yes — Bromo — very true
Patroklus Murakami: well, sudane has other points to make about this process, including her desire for a Fiscal Responsibilty Committee. so why dont’ we iron out the wrinkles when we consider that?
Patroklus Murakami: for now, we can ask sudane to prepare a budget for RA consideration (as she has previously done) and consider any other codification of process that may be necessary
Beathan Vale: Right — Pat — we can and should incorporated the process into the support structure we create for the Treasurer
Patroklus Murakami: i agree beathan
Jon Seattle: sure. What about this term?
Leon Ash: Sounds sensible
ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps we shoudl do it another way
Beathan Vale: and it does not make sense to elaborate and formalize a process until we know the treasury structure
Jon Seattle: Are we skipping the budget for this term, or will we draw one up at the last moment?
Patroklus Murakami: oh i think we need to approve one this term
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need a budget ..
Bromo Ivory nods
Leon Ash: When does this term end?
Patroklus Murakami: we should ask sudane to prepare one. better late than never 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: but we might want to do do it differently than beathan suggested
Patroklus Murakami: we end at end of january when the new RA begins
Leon Ash: Thx Pat. I guess a budget should be prepared then 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, theprincess. could you elaborate on ‘do it another way’? do you mean ‘do it earlier’?
ThePrincess? Parisi: go ahead beathan
Patroklus Murakami waits….
Beathan Vale: I’m not sure — I just said that we should do what we have always done until a trresury structure is in place
Beathan Vale: Sudane submits a budget, we review and approve it
Patroklus Murakami: oh, ok 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: we could make recommendatoins like jon said first
Patroklus Murakami: can’t really disagree with that!
Beathan Vale: Once we set up the support network Sudane has been asking for, we then ask “how can we use this structure to improve our budget process”
Beathan Vale: I think we will find ways
Jon Seattle: Yes, it may make sense to do it that way now, and then through a finance comitteer for next term when we figure out what excactly a finance comitteer consists of
Jon Seattle: Or the other way around 🙂 what do others think?
Jon Seattle: *comittee
ThePrincess? Parisi: brb
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think a finance cttee will be ready til next term so we should reserve it until then
Patroklus Murakami: there was a problem with the idea before i recall
Patroklus Murakami: one proposal on a finance committee was ruled unconstitutional by the SC
Beathan Vale: I agree Pat
Patroklus Murakami: we should examine that case and seek to avoid the same error
Leon Ash: How can a finance committee be unconstitutional?
Leon Ash: Or am being an idiot?
Jon Seattle: I don’t remember the details, but something to do with checks and balances I think
Leon Ash: *I 😉
Patroklus Murakami: well leon, i think it was the *way* it was being set up
Leon Ash: And then discarded completely?
Patroklus Murakami: it seemed to be a division of the RA and that brought up issues about the RA voting on a budget it had proposed i.e. there were no checks or balances built in
Patroklus Murakami: but i could be wrong. it was a while ago and i was still new to Neualtenburg (as was)
Jon Seattle: So shall we send a request to prepare a budget to the executive branch now? I am happy with Pat’s list of priorities.
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i think we should
Beathan Vale: yes
Bromo Ivory: THough the check isn’t strong it is better than before.
Bromo Ivory: (since the excutive serves at the pleasure of the RA)
Leon Ash votes yes (informally)
Patroklus Murakami: ok. well i guess we’re waiting for the New Guild meeting to conclude to move on to item 2 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’m told that they’re nearly ready
Patroklus Murakami: they’re taking the final votes on the proposed covenants and should be with us soon
Bromo Ivory: Ah good
Patroklus Murakami: and so, we wait 🙂 ……
Jon Seattle: I am told they are taking their last vote now 🙂
Bromo Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: we should have a chat repeater 😀 so we can listen in
Patroklus Murakami: brb (comfort breaks allowed now folks!)
Jon Seattle: I am told it passsed.. 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
Patroklus Murakami: let’s hope it passes here too 🙂
Moon Adamant: so, my hello all and sorry 🙂
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Moon Adamant hugs Jon
Leon Ash: Hi Moon
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon. just in time for item 2. alpine meadows covenant and roadmap to purchase of 3rd sim
Sleazy Writer: Hello RA 🙂
Leon Ash: sleazy
Patroklus Murakami: moon, would you like to lead off when you’re ready?
Moon Adamant: thanks to all reps for waiting
Moon Adamant: yes, sure
Leon Ash: Hi Arria
Moon Adamant: ok hmmm
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody 🙂
Moon Adamant: we have prepared for you
Jon Seattle: Hi Arria, Sleazy 🙂
Moon Adamant: a plan of the AM sim
Moon Adamant: a draft of the covenants
Moon Adamant: and the financial proposal
Moon Adamant: the draft of the covenants and the financial proposal are in google docs
Moon Adamant: so please touch each cube to open the docs
Moon Adamant: as re: financial plans, you will consider only the one labelled “Proposal4”
Moon Adamant: since the rest refers to older versions of the plan
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: i apologize for troubling you to open these outside SL
Moon Adamant: and i will post them today in the forums
Patroklus Murakami: (i can open the covenants doc but not the spreadsheeet with the financial plans
Moon Adamant: as regards teh coveant draft, it has a colour code referring to voted items, migrated items from other covenants, etc – but it has also been just voted as a whole
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Jon Seattle: having trouble opening the financial one for some reason..
Moon Adamant: checking if it is published
Moon Adamant: i can open it fine, but i would appreciate more test
Moon Adamant: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pKpEHNlZSbBT2qSY_ri45AA
Patroklus Murakami: aah, ok. got it now
Moon Adamant: i will post an image of that later on in all cases
Jon Seattle: got it 🙂
Dnate Mars: hello
Moon Adamant: these three docs are the iterative work of hmmm 7 months
Moon Adamant: i can say with a good deal of confidence that they represent a broad support
Moon Adamant: we have discussed the plan always in open meetings, and have gathered a good deal of opinions and work on this plan
Beathan Vale: any significant opposition? if so — why and from whom?
Moon Adamant: i would take teh chance here to say thanks to everyone who participated in the process 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’m very grateful to you moon and to the new guild for all the work you have put in to developing these proposals. i know it has been no mean feat. well done!
Moon Adamant: Beathan, we have had several points of dissent on the plan, but we were able to negotiate compromises off those
Leon Ash: Beathan, what constitutes a script review?
Beathan Vale: kk
Beathan Vale: a script review?
Moon Adamant: i would also warn the RA
Moon Adamant: that we are proposing a few alterations to the CDS-wide covenants
Leon Ash: first ammendment to general cds
Leon Ash: soz moon, i’ll wait for you to finish 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol, no no no
Patroklus Murakami: pls elaborate
Moon Adamant: i am through… happy to answer any question
Moon Adamant: about the CDS-wide cov?
Leon Ash: the first change to the covenant state “All structures and scripts are subject to review.”, my quesiton is what/how is a script reviewed?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Jon Seattle: The two are the script and terriforming rules, both slightly modified I think
Moon Adamant: well, using the estate tools, the exec branch can check the performance of any script
Dnate Mars: Mainly by the amount of time they use to run
Moon Adamant: this is a clause to allow the Exec branch to have an action as regards very laggy scripts
Jon Seattle: This also allows limitd teraforming, where in the past we have required approval even for minor changes.
Moon Adamant: Jon, the estate tools allow that you define a ceiling for terraform actions
Moon Adamant: this can be config’ed by sim
Moon Adamant: which makes the clause redundant
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i think you went through trying to define ‘excessively laggy scripts’ and concluded, quite rightly, that an objective definition that was enforceable was not really possible
Moon Adamant: and contraditory as regards the AM covenant
Leon Ash: Moon, to clarify on scripts. The review is ‘external’ using the performance tools provided by LL. I have concerns about no mod scripts etc 🙂
Moon Adamant: we had a long discussion on how to class scripts
Leon Ash: being unreadable
Moon Adamant: Leon, thus we say a bit below that the action is left to the Chanc’s discretion
Moon Adamant: justly so that he/she can let a script stay in case of no possibility of modifying, replacing, etc
Dnate Mars: The worst thing I could do is return the object
Patroklus Murakami: that’s scripts covered. how about terraforming?
Patroklus Murakami: why change our current prohibition?
Moon Adamant: thsi terraform clause is a very old clause
Moon Adamant: previous, i believe, to the current estate tool
Leon Ash: Great
Moon Adamant: this tool allows you to define a terraform allowance
Moon Adamant: so, the rule is redundant
Moon Adamant: because in sims in which you do not want to terraform, you set that tool to 0 allowance
Patroklus Murakami: hehe. very neat 🙂
Moon Adamant: it is also contradictory to the specific AM covenant, which allows a small terraforming to ease building
Jon Seattle: Yes, in the past, in practice, a little terraforming had to be done to set the foundations of buildings
Moon Adamant: indeed
Jon Seattle: this allows that level of work to be done without bothering the chancellor, but not major changes.
Moon Adamant: that often needed assistance from someone
Moon Adamant: with terrain permissions
Moon Adamant: exactly, no need to bother the Exec branch
Moon Adamant: to what is essentially a ‘fitting’ operation
Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have any further qns on the covenants? before we move on to the spreadsheet?
Bromo Ivory is satisfied
Leon Ash: I’m happy with it.
Sleazy Writer: ehm .. someone nudged me
Jon Seattle is happy with it (of course)
Beathan Vale: happy too
Sleazy Writer: Is the RA planning to accept this line from Moon’s draft that says that terraforming in NFS & CN now *will* be allowed?
Sleazy Writer: Moon/
Sleazy Writer: ?
Moon Adamant: oh, i don’t mean that
Dnate Mars: Terriforming will be allowed… with a 0m limit 😉
Moon Adamant: the terrain tool for those sims can be left to 0
Moon Adamant: it’s just an overall omission, which can be replaced instead with a clear mention on those two covenants
Moon Adamant: mind that
Sleazy Writer: As a citizen I would be happier with : “no terraforming” for all sims seems like a bad idea .. what about proposing “no terraforming is allowed unless the sim covenant explicitly allows it” that keeps things as they are and gives way to AM’s special needs.
Sleazy Writer: oops, bad copy pasta
Sleazy Writer: but you get the point
Moon Adamant: for all that matters, we DO have terraforming in CN and NFS
Jon Seattle enjoys the pasta 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: there is no terraforming in CN now allowed.. in practice
Patroklus Murakami: can we accept sleazy’s language as a statement of the status quo?
Moon Adamant: and teh terraforming is really a thing that should be defined at sim level – nevertheless, that language is good too
Sleazy Writer: What I mean is, saying “terraforming is allowed, but with + – 0 in NFS & CN” is vague .. It’s better to say “no terraforming unless the sim covenant AM’s covenant allows it” .. and this is what I propose to the RA as amendment to Moon’s proposal
Jon Seattle: So, Moon, as I understand it, passing this covenent will provide a varience from the CDS-wide covenents for Alps only
Jon Seattle: I think it best to focus on Alps changes for now..
Moon Adamant: hmmm, pardon?
Dnate Mars: (it would actually be a good thing to do across the CDS, but we need to make sure we have the proper bakings dones
Moon Adamant: ah
Jon Seattle: Moon, would passing this change the covenents in NFS or CN, or would those remain the same?
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi aliexicon
Moon Adamant: well, hmmm
MT Lundquist: hi alex
Sleazy Writer: hi Alexicon
Jon Seattle: (for now)
Alexicon Kurka: hi everyoe
Jon Seattle: Hi Alex
Leon Ash: FWIW, I think Sleazy’s propsal is more future friendly 🙂
Arria Perreault: Hi Alex
Moon Adamant: please understand that this is a proposal from the New Guild and covenant task force into solving some issues – mainly scripts
Moon Adamant: also proposing some practice to be implemented already at AM
Patroklus Murakami: ok let’s vote on sleazy’s clarifying amendment “”no terraforming unless the sim covenant AM’s covenant allows it” .
Moon Adamant: for the interest of coherency… yes, one could say that there is an interest that this chapter is updated into all sims
Patroklus Murakami: RA members pls vote
Jon Seattle: Is this Alps only?
Jon Seattle: Or all sims?
Patroklus Murakami: no, it’s CDS-wide
Jon Seattle: Are we changing CDS-wide covenents with this? Or just passing the Alps covenents?
Patroklus Murakami: it allows terraforminging in AM and keeps teh status quo in CN and NFS
Bromo Ivory: COuld you state the exact wordiing we are voting upon – I would like to make sure we have this 100% clear
Patroklus Murakami: the relevant section of the google docs is ‘General CDS covenants’
Patroklus Murakami: moon/new guild was proposing we delete ‘no terrforming is permitted’
Patroklus Murakami: sleazy is proposing “no terraforming unless the sim covenant AM’s covenant allows it” .
Moon Adamant: or alter it
Beathan Vale: sorry all — I have to runb
Jon Seattle: Pat, only for the Alps sim I think
Jon Seattle: Bye Beathan
Sleazy Writer: bye
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
MT Lundquist: bye
Jon Seattle: I am happy either way, but CDS wide changes may have greater consequences
Patroklus Murakami: well, ‘no terraforming is permitted’ is a cds-wide covenant
Patroklus Murakami: sleazy is proposing that we amend it to make it the default position unless there is a decision not to, as in teh case of AM
Jon Seattle: So we allso need to amend to make that section change covenents for all sims, I think the Guild proposal was for a varience for Alps. I am happy changing it CDS-wide.
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: i would like to point out that at this moment, CN is set to allow terraform to +100 m/-50 m
Alexicon Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: eeek 😀
ThePrincess? Parisi: xdd
Moon Adamant: this to say, there is a tech solution for the issue
ThePrincess? Parisi: CN is set to not allow terraforming
Patroklus Murakami: well, that solves my little problem with bumpy land1
ThePrincess? Parisi: at all right now
Patroklus Murakami: !
Moon Adamant: we are concerned mainly that
ThePrincess? Parisi: CN does NOT allow terrafoming now
Dnate Mars: but it is set for no terriforming
Moon Adamant: from the pov of a new resident for AM
Patroklus Murakami: but moon, CN should*not* be set to terraform. should it?
Moon Adamant: they won’t meet two contradictory clauses in the the same covenant
Patroklus Murakami: the fact that it is is a mistake
Moon Adamant: yes, it is blocked atm
ThePrincess? Parisi: CN used to allow terraforming it is nto not
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Jon Seattle: Oh, CN is not set to terriform except for the management group I think
Patroklus Murakami: sleazy’s amendment seems to serve our needs. could we please vote on it? RA members, pls say ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
Sleazy Writer: I think Dnate has recently turned off terraforming
Sleazy Writer: a checkbox
Dnate Mars nods
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Jon Seattle: Pat, only if we add that this changes all CDS sims. There is not point in changing it if it changes only alps
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: that’s what it does jon
ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
Jon Seattle: aye, asuming it changes for all sims
Bromo Ivory: I don’t think we shoudl change covenants CDS wide at this moment – so Nay
Patroklus Murakami: is that everybody?
Patroklus Murakami: right.
Patroklus Murakami: the change passes
Patroklus Murakami: lets’ vote on the covenants as a whole, as amended
Leon Ash votes aye
Moon Adamant amends the draft as well
Bromo Ivory votes aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Leon Ash: FWIW I’m happy with the contents of the spreadsheet and have to leave.
Jon Seattle: are
Jon Seattle: *AYE
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Jon Seattle: lol, aye, third try 🙂
Leon Ash: Night everyone
Patroklus Murakami: ok, that passes
ThePrincess? Parisi: night leon good luck
Patroklus Murakami: now, the spreadsheet
Bromo Ivory: Gnight Leon
Leon Ash: Thx ThePrincess?
Patroklus Murakami: moon, before we consider this
ThePrincess? Parisi: :{
Moon Adamant: yes Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: we woudl lik to have time for chancellor’s qns too
Moon Adamant: btw, again, it’s PROPOSAL
Moon Adamant: 4
Patroklus Murakami: what else do we need to do to get AM moving before we can approve purchase of teh new sim and start building?
Patroklus Murakami: do we need to approve this now is partly what i’m asking
Jon Seattle: We need to approve the financial plan I think
Jon Seattle: otherwise no way to purchase it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah 🙂
Moon Adamant: oh, i am ok, our intention was to make the final presentation today, so that we wouldn’t stop the CDS from acquiring the new sim any longer
Dnate Mars: Yes, then presales can start
Sudane Erato: we need to approve these rates and sell a number of pre-sales
Sudane Erato: even a small number will do
Leon Ash: I’m happy for presales to begin
Dnate Mars: The Executive branch approves these numbers
Moon Adamant: i would call Sudane to present the financial plan, rather than myself
Patroklus Murakami: ok, so it’s critical that we approve this today if we’re happy with it?
Moon Adamant: well
Jon Seattle: It would be best .. I would like to see it move ahead
Bromo Ivory: **can’t call up spreadsheet**
Moon Adamant: approving it today and authorizing the buying
ThePrincess? Parisi: me neither
Moon Adamant: try this:
Moon Adamant: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pKpEHNlZSbBT2qSY_ri45AA
Sudane Erato: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pKpEHNlZSbBT2qSY_ri45AA
Moon Adamant: would mean that – with the delay in sim releasing by LL –
Moon Adamant: we would have it max at 1st week Dec
Moon Adamant: and that by Xmas holidays
Moon Adamant: the lansdcape would be ready
Jon Seattle: (look ay proposal 4, the end of the sheet btw..)
Bromo Ivory:
Sudane Erato: yes… Proposal 4
Patroklus Murakami: does the tier cover the cost? i don’t make this at US$295/month
Moon Adamant: this, and other activities of promo concerning Xmas decurring also in the sim, may attract buyers
Patroklus Murakami reaches for calculator…
Sudane Erato: the tier is listed as the tier for each sized parcel
Dnate Mars: It covers more then the cost. 87,320 vs 138,240
Sudane Erato: so you multiply the tier/parcel times the number of parcels
Sudane Erato: and I have factored in a multiplier… to cover other CDS expenses
Patroklus Murakami: gotcha, comes out at about US$470/month?
Sudane Erato: equivalent to what we have in NFS and CN
Sudane Erato: that sounds right
Leon Ash: I’m sorry everyone I must go. I think the rates are fine and am happy to proceed with the purchase of the sime providing pre-sales reach 33.3% of the land available.
Sudane Erato: the tier is actually quite reasonable, if you understand it as paying for prims
Leon Ash: If there is something not covered by this I’ll vote via email int he morning.
Leon Ash: 🙂
Bromo Ivory nods “One has to given the way prims are allocated
Leon Ash: Night 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: thanks for staying leon
Bromo Ivory: Gnight
Sudane Erato: i.e.,… double what a normal sq meter might bring
Sleazy Writer: good night!
Jon Seattle: Night Leon
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to move to a vote. do others have questions?
Jon Seattle: I second
Patroklus Murakami: ok. pls vote aye or nay on the proposal for financing AM
Jon Seattle: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: ok , that passes
Moon Adamant: yay
Jon Seattle: yay 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: now, do we need to approve purchase of teh new sim now?
Dnate Mars: Yes, all delays will be costly
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: when does the NG envisage making the purchase?
Moon Adamant: uh
Moon Adamant: we depend on you for that
Sudane Erato: well, I’d like to gather whatever pre-sales can be done now
Sudane Erato: and then proceed asap
Dnate Mars: We want to have the sim ready fo rthe winter festival
Patroklus Murakami: so, would you like to come back to a future RA meeting, tell us the x% has been sold and request permission to buy the new sim?
Sudane Erato: well… my preference
Patroklus Murakami: or do u want us to approve this now, or set a trigger point for sales beyond which purchase can take place?
Sudane Erato: would be to have authorization to proceed at my discretion
Sudane Erato: but that’s up to you
Bromo Ivory likes that idea. SUdane being our “business developer”
Bromo Ivory: in this case
Jon Seattle: Sudane has always been relyable on these issues, really our best expert on land market
Dnate Mars: I agree
Patroklus Murakami: i propose we give sudane discretion to buy the new sim, provided that 1/3 of the lots by value have been sold
Sudane Erato: thats reasonable
Jon Seattle: I second
Patroklus Murakami: pls vote
Jon Seattle: votes Aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye on own proposal 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess? bromo? we’re waiting for your votes
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Bromo Ivory: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi nudges bromo
Bromo Ivory: **sorry –
Patroklus Murakami: ty, that passes 🙂
Sudane Erato: ty for your confidence
Patroklus Murakami: i think that’s all on AM. dnate has been very patient
Dnate Mars: (hurray, we are finally get AM!!!!!)
Patroklus Murakami: it’s time for chancellor’s questions this week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats
Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
Moon Adamant: ehehe congrats to everyone who made it happen 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we take 20 mins on this. hope you can all stay
Sleazy Writer: great! 😀
Dnate Mars: So, when do we start planning our next sim?
Sudane Erato: lol
Moon Adamant: uh, you hold your horses for two weeks 😛
Patroklus Murakami: yes, congrats on setting up AM. it’s been a lot of work to get this far. well done!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Dnate ? yeeees
Dnate Mars: Ok, I can only stay until 2:15, so we need to make this quick
Patroklus Murakami: item 3. question for dnate. who woudl like to start?
Moon Adamant: hopefully next sim will be quicker, the AM covenants are very good and can be drawn upon for teh next sims~
Jon Seattle: I would. Dnate, the RA earlier decided to ask for a proposed budget for the executive and specified some priorities. When can we expect that?
Jon Seattle: *from the
Dnate Mars: They did?
Jon Seattle: (before you arrived) yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Dnate Mars: Oh uh, well, the only thing I see for the rest of this year is the winter festival and promotion of the new sim
Patroklus Murakami: yes dnate. we requested a budget before you arrived. in response to issues raised on the forums. we will follow up on that
Jon Seattle: Dnate, such a budget would cover the entire term I assume
Jon Seattle: past as well as the remainder
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to ask about the web portal. what progress has been made since our last meeting when i raised this?
Dnate Mars: Oh, sure 🙂
Dnate Mars: I am afraid to say that the web portal is currenlty stalled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: why is that?
Dnate Mars: Time and knowelge of what needs to be done
Dnate Mars: I found it to be unfair that Rose try and lead a team in something she knows nothing about
Patroklus Murakami: hmmm. sorry to press you but what has actually *been done*?
Dnate Mars: So I have taken over the project
Dnate Mars: Well, not too much
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Dnate Mars: It is one of those projects that no one has shown any real interest in heading up
Dnate Mars: Until someone can do that, I think it will remain on hold
Dnate Mars: I do want to thank those that did move the forums over to the slcds.info domain
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. that doesn’t seem very satisfactory to me. the RA passed this as one of its first acts this term. it seems a bit late in the day to say ‘it’s very difficult, nothing’s been done’. why couldn’t we have been alerted of the difficulties sooner?
Dnate Mars: that is at least a step in the right direction
Gwyneth Llewelyn bows
Avatar Online HUD 1.3a (WEAR ME!): Loading avatar-data… (avatar-UUID-list (EDIT ME))
Dnate Mars: because it fell off the radar. I should have been up on it, but other things pushed it out of the way. I am sorry for that.
Patroklus Murakami: ok. thanks dnate 🙂 i know you’ve had a lot on your plate
Patroklus Murakami: my other question is – government question hour. when can we expect to hold another one? the first two your organised went very well i thought
Dnate Mars: I am very pleased to announce that the next 2 question hours will be on Tuesday, Nov 27th at noon and Thursday, Dec 6th at noon
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
Patroklus Murakami: any other questions for dnate?
Dnate Mars: Perfect, I have 2 minutes to spear
Sleazy Writer: Why are you blue?
Bromo Ivory says nope
Dnate Mars: spare
ThePrincess? Parisi: and what shade is it?
Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂
Sleazy Writer: periwinle
ThePrincess? Parisi: exaclty .. like bluebery
Sleazy Writer: winkle
ThePrincess? Parisi: roayal
Dnate Mars: I have been blue for over 3 years, my question is, why aren’t you all blue?
ThePrincess? Parisi: cobolt
Sleazy Writer: his brain has been affected — clearly ..
Sleazy Writer: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think a bright cobalt blue
Dnate Mars: and it is called, “Dnate Blue”
Bromo Ivory: Sleazy’s or Dnates? 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: ahhh Dnate Blue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Bromo Ivory: lol
Sleazy Writer: 🙂
Jon Seattle: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: hehe, and with that, i suggest we adjourn 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Dnate Mars: see you all on the 27th!
Sleazy Writer: & I’m glad to hear about the Gov’t Question Hours 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty everyone
The meeting closed at 14:15 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 02, 2007

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (198, 185, 178)

Meeting on 2007-12-02
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: just a note, i have to leave no later than 12:45
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston: soudns good, i have yet to eat today so i am pretty famihsed] Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: we have one item on the agenda today, the budget that sudane has kindly put together for us
Patroklus Murakami: the link is in the notecard on the table
Patroklus Murakami: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pKpEHNlZSbBRNeHIjN7jIXw
Leon Ash: I have one question, from ignorance really
Patroklus Murakami: so, let’s wait for everyone to get that open aand then open up for qns
Patroklus Murakami: leon, you had one already?
Leon Ash: okay
Leon Ash: I do, I’m just curious how the projections for income is positive growth, when actuals had a decline?
Jon Seattle: I have one as well.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take leon’s first
Sudane Erato: well, the actual income *will* flucuate from month to month
Leon Ash: I agree on that one 🙂
Sudane Erato: in those two months, it went down from one to the next
Sudane Erato: in another 2, it might go up
Sudane Erato: but from Oct to Nov… we start collecting income from AM
Sudane Erato: so it *will* go up
Leon Ash: Good to hear that 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ok, that’s that covered. jon, what was your question?
Jon Seattle: I am trying to understand this in US $ terms, since I have more of a sense of values that way 🙂
Jon Seattle: I see about US$200 or so expense for events?
Jon Seattle: for a six month period
Jon Seattle: is that about right?
Sudane Erato: ahh… yes, perhaps
Sudane Erato: i have resisted US$s
Sudane Erato: because our economy is in L$s
Sudane Erato: the only US$s is the tier to LL
Sudane Erato: and only Americans have a sense of value in US$s
Sudane Erato: but i have used 277 to the dollar
Jon Seattle: Yes, though I am trying to get a sense, in RL terms of our burn rate 🙂
Sudane Erato: sure
Jon Seattle: 25,000 = $100 US approx
Sudane Erato: closer to 90
Leon Ash: I have 2 more questions. Just so I know for future really
Sudane Erato: kk
Patroklus Murakami: well, we agreed L$4000/month for six months, so the december etc expenditure needs to be agreed first as it is in excess of that
Sudane Erato: Pat, did we have a budget? for this term?
Jon Seattle: Well, if so we will be spending about US$400 / year on events
Patroklus Murakami: this is the first time we’ve discussed the budget properly. but we passed an events funding bill at one of the first meetings.
Sudane Erato: ahh… ok
Sudane Erato: great
Patroklus Murakami: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-index.php?page=NL+7-2
Sudane Erato: kk
Patroklus Murakami: so, the RA has authorised expenditure of L$24000 for the six month period but this budget projects an expenditure greater than that
Patroklus Murakami: how firm are the figures for the winter holidays?
Sudane Erato: i think I indicate in the notes where the numbers came from
Sudane Erato: Rose was just at the Guild mtg
Sudane Erato: talking about this program
Sudane Erato: but of course, she didn’t address the budget
Sudane Erato: if anything, i suspect it will be less
Sudane Erato: since i sense that she is scaling things down
Patroklus Murakami: i make expenditure to date on events as about L$19k (including Oktoberfest). that suggests the events budget has been pretty much used up – unless we agree to increase it
Sudane Erato: well, I will hope that you do… since events such as these are extremely important for our community…
Sudane Erato: they have happened little enough in the past
Brian Livingston: I agree Sudante
Brian Livingston: Err, Sudane*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jon Seattle: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i agree. i don’t have a problem with voting additional funds for events. we’ve been really lucky to get someone keen to organise them
Sudane Erato: yes!
Jon Seattle: I also notice the expected amount to be spent in Jan, Feb is 0. Does this mean events will stop in those months?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m just making the point that we need to make a positive decision to fund them and stand by that use of public money
Sudane Erato: Jon, i just have seen no proposed expenditures for that time
Sudane Erato: sure Pat
Jon Seattle: Well, I hope we will vote on a total amount so that events do not have to come to a grinding halt.
Sudane Erato: yes
Brian Livingston: I think it is important for this community to sufficeintly fund a program of events.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Jon Seattle: Sudane, what would you estimate would be spent per citizen per year at this rate?
Brian Livingston: It looks liek we are runnuing a surplus of $60000L Projected, correct?
Sudane Erato: oh… Jon…
Sudane Erato: i need my calculator 🙂
Brian Livingston: Hehe
Sudane Erato: and Brian…
Patroklus Murakami: i make it about L$1400 per citizen
Sudane Erato: the surplus is something in that scale
Patroklus Murakami: (very rough calculation)
Sudane Erato: perhpas more
Sudane Erato: yeah… that sounds ok
Sudane Erato: i’d love it to be a lot more
Sudane Erato: events bring people to our sims
Brian Livingston: I would almost say that i would liek to see a monthly budget of $10000L for events and promotion
Patroklus Murakami: i’m really pleased to see us involved in things like metanomics for example
Sudane Erato: that would be great!
Jon Seattle: 88680 / year
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: about 80 citizens?
Brian Livingston: It would be an increase of $6000L or 10% of our surplus
Sudane Erato: hmmm… more like 70
Jon Seattle: 1266 approx.
Patroklus Murakami: i estimated L$ 84k/year for 70 citizens to make my calculation
Sudane Erato: well, thats not very much
Patroklus Murakami: well, we’re taking baby steps here
Brian Livingston: Even $10000L isn’t a massive amount of money in the bigger scheme of event hosting, but combined with sponsorships, which are startign to occur, we could really set up a nice schedule of events on it
Sudane Erato: yes, true
Sudane Erato: yes Brian
Patroklus Murakami: it was a new move to fund an official events budget, and some ppl are opposed to the idea in principle
Sudane Erato: 🙁
Brian Livingston: It is a large chunk of money, don’t get me wrong ,especialyl for a sim group our size, but I think its a worthwhile investment of ourm oeny
Sudane Erato: then call it advertising and promotion
Sudane Erato: thats what it is!!
Patroklus Murakami: it’s reasonable to move with caution when it’s other people’s money we’re committing
Jon Seattle: well, I am fine with it as long as we know what we are getting in to.
Jon Seattle: exactly.
Sudane Erato: well, as far as I can see, Rose has been providing proposed actrivities
Sudane Erato: before the money is spent
Brian Livingston: The money to date taht has been expended ahs resulted in some heavy traffic for our sims and helped raise our level of brand recognition in the wider SL population
Sudane Erato: yes, i agree
Patroklus Murakami: i agree, it’s been good for us in many respects
Jon Seattle: still, I would like to not have those zeros on Jan and Feb.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to approve this budget and allow for the additional expenditure to be on winter and then next couple of months. it represents a doubling of the events budget, but I think that is justified. we should consider this again at an early meeting of the next RA, it may be time to be bolder 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, thats probably a discussion with Dnate and Rose
Patroklus Murakami: jon, i think any expenditure not used in december could be rolled forward
Jon Seattle: Okay
Patroklus Murakami: i anticipate that winter expenditure will have to be scaled back a bit
Patroklus Murakami: we’ve spent some time on events and promotion, are there any other qns on the budget?
Brian Livingston: None here
Leon Ash: The first question is. What are the 4000/3000 professional fees expense, and the second is: what sponsorship are we expecting in December?
Sudane Erato: Leon… the fees are paid to me, rose, and Tan
Sudane Erato: supposed to be regular each month
Jon Seattle: how much will the total balence change if these projections turn out to be true? Over the six months.
Sudane Erato: but i screw up
Sudane Erato: and
Leon Ash: listening 🙂
Sudane Erato: the sponsorship is that Rose suggested that individuals could sponsor performances
Sudane Erato: so
Sudane Erato: thats kind of the level i expect
Sudane Erato: i have told her to make certain that any offiocial sponsorship… the money goes thru Rudeen
Leon Ash: And you are expecting ‘who’ to contribute in Dec, Rose? 🙂
Jon Seattle: Great 🙂
Sudane Erato: I have proposed to sponsor a concert in the church
Sudane Erato: and I understand ThePrincess? has proposed to sponsor a ball
Sudane Erato: so that might be 10,000
Sudane Erato: just guessing
Leon Ash: Sounds good
Sudane Erato: and i must go
Sudane Erato: 🙁
Sudane Erato: sorry
Jon Seattle: Thanks Sudane
Sudane Erato: ty! 🙂
Brian Livingston: Tahnsk Sudane
Brian Livingston: Err Thanks
Patroklus Murakami: yes, ty for coming sudane
Leon Ash: Thank you Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: if you have any more questions
Patroklus Murakami: that was very helpful 🙂
Sudane Erato: an email would be great
Sudane Erato: sudane.erato(at)gmail.com
Sudane Erato: gives me more chance to explain
Patroklus Murakami: i feel ready to approve the budget but we’ll see how the discussion goes 🙂
Sudane Erato: great 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye now 🙂
Leon Ash: BTW, where in teh ‘buget’ are the purcahse costs for AM? Am I missing it?
Jon Seattle: I am still trying to figure out if this means that 65k will be added to the balance each month?
Patroklus Murakami: this is just a simplified income/expenditure sheet leon. it was produced at v short notice by sudane
Leon Ash: I realise that Pat 🙂 Was just curious where it was recorded? Only just thought of it myseld
Brian Livingston: If everything goes as projected, yea, I think it would
Leon Ash: *myself
Jon Seattle: Yes, I think the purchase was payed for out of pre-sales and surplus
Patroklus Murakami: we had enough money from reserves to buy it. we’re in quite a sound position overall i think
Patroklus Murakami: is the RA ready to vote on this?
Brian Livingston: What are we voting on?
Leon Ash: Pat, But it is an expense that should be in the ‘actuals’ ?
Brian Livingston: The budget as it stands or are we increasign hte promotion budget?
Jon Seattle: Brian, what do you propose?
Patroklus Murakami: on the draft budget presented by sudane. that includes the projected expenditure, so an additional amount for winter which may be rolled fwd to jan/feb
Patroklus Murakami: is that clear?
Brian Livingston: Hmm, actualyl that does work out to about 10k a month, give or take
Jon Seattle: yes 🙂
Brian Livingston: So yea, that’s clear
Patroklus Murakami: okay, please say ‘yay’ or ‘nay’
Jon Seattle: yay
Patroklus Murakami votes ‘yay’
Jon Seattle: (aye)
Leon Ash votes nay
Brian Livingston: yay
Patroklus Murakami: okay, well we go to a seven-day vote on that. the budget needs 4/7 votes to pass so we’ll have to wait to see what the other RA members say
Leon Ash: Pat, I’ve declined on the basis that the cost of the AM purchase is not included as an Expense in the Actual expenditure
Patroklus Murakami: ty for making that clear leon
Jon Seattle: Thanks Leon. You have a point. I don’t think it will change much, but it should be included.
Leon Ash: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all we have on the agenda for today, i suggest we adjourn
Jon Seattle: Agreed 🙂
Leon Ash: Have a great afternoon/evening everyone
Jon Seattle: and all of you too!
Brian Livingston: havea good evening
Patroklus Murakami: bye all 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye 🙂
The meeting closed at 13:0 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 09, 2007

Meeting on 2007-12-09
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: ok. let’s begin
Patroklus Murakami: notecards are in the dispenser
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sleazy Writer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded for the chat log
Patroklus Murakami: first item – tour of CDS bill
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure we have anyone here to propose it
Patroklus Murakami: would RA members like to wait until we do or present some first thoughts on the subject now?
Patroklus Murakami: (and non-RA members, being inclusive :))
Jon Seattle: It sounds like a good idea, if not biased. I do worry that new citizens and others come here without knowing much history.
Patroklus Murakami: it certainly sounds like a good idea
Brian Livingston: The idea is nice, but isn’;t this something the PIO can handle (and I think was working on)?
Jon Seattle: yes, this does not require the RA I think
Patroklus Murakami: i did wonder whether it was for the RA or the Executive to enact
Patroklus Murakami: shall we return to this when a proposer can attend an RA meeting?
Brian Livingston: If the Exec branch wants to organize a committee to explore and develop this tour, I think its wonderful, I guesws IJ ust don’t see a need for the RA to act on it
Patroklus Murakami: and suggest they discuss with the Exec branch in the meantime?
Brian Livingston: I second that Pat
Jon Seattle: yes, I agree
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 2 then
Patroklus Murakami: IP Licensing and Content Archivist Bill. Jon, would you like to introduce this?
Jon Seattle: Okay
Michel Manen: hello all
Jon Seattle: This is a bill that provides a means for us to maintain backup copies of key parts of the CDS infrastructure builds
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Leon Ash: Hi Michel
Michel Manen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: It provides a means for us to obtain the liciences needed to have rights to use those copies if we need to replace any object or move it within our regions.
Jon Seattle: It helps protect the investment that builders have put in to the CDS over a long period of time.
Brian Livingston has two points of clarification when the floor is ready
Jon Seattle: I am done.
Michel Manen: hmm the notecard giver seems to be out of date
Patroklus Murakami: go ahead brian
Patroklus Murakami: use the wooden box on the table michel
Brian Livingston: Okee. First point, section B6 regardign the firing of the CA
Michel Manen: tks pat
Brian Livingston: Does the confirmation and firing of the CA require a simple majority or 2/3rds vote?
Jon Seattle: Ah, good point.
Brian Livingston: I’d assuem simple majority but it isn’t specified
Jon Seattle: I assume a simple majority
Patroklus Murakami: i would assume simple majority as it is not specified
Brian Livingston: Can I propose adding that to sections B5 ad B6 for clarity?
Jon Seattle: Sure. I am glad to accept that if Sleazy is okay with it.
Leon Ash: I think it is a good suggestiong Brian
Jon Seattle: (Sleazy did much of the drafting.)
Sleazy Writer: sure, fine
Patroklus Murakami: what was your other point brian?
Brian Livingston: Second poitn for clarification is on section A6 regardign the budget for structures
Brian Livingston: It states taht L$50,000 is provisioend for AM structures. That is a total figure and not per term ,correct?
Sleazy Writer: that’s how I meant it, yes
Jon Seattle: yes, total.
Brian Livingston: And at what poitn are the remaining funds transferred back into the CDS General fund?
Brian Livingston: When all structures have had IP contracts signed I assume?
Sudane Erato: i would suggest that budget figures be kept out of a law like this
Sudane Erato: and dealt with as part of the regular budget
Sudane Erato: since all elements of a budget must be considered
Sudane Erato: when a budget is approved
Leon Ash: Agreed Sudane
Jon Seattle: Well, it is common to add extraordinary one time expenses. And I would rather not wait six months to deal with this.
Jon Seattle: I would be fine placing it in a second bill.
Sleazy Writer: The reason for putting the figure in this bill is to get the Chancellor ready, ASAP, to sign agreements, because buildings are *getting* ready as well as being started right now. Then with what part of the current budget do you propose that Dnate gets those licenses, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: fair enough… then can we say that this part of the law applies ONLY to right now
Patroklus Murakami: the budget allocation could be taken separately as a budgetary amendment. that wouldn’t require a delay, would it?
Sudane Erato: thats the problem, see?
Brian Livingston: Well, it does specify for structures in Alpine Meadows
Michel Manen: are there any builders of AM who do not consent to grant license for $1L?
Sudane Erato: that the law is intended to be ongoing
Sudane Erato: but you cannot always assume a funding level of 50,000
Jon Seattle: Lets add it as an amendment to the budget as Pat suggests
Sudane Erato: kk… great
Jon Seattle: Michel, we do not yet know the answer to that question.
Sudane Erato: much better
Leon Ash: Sounds good to me
Sleazy Writer: Suggestion: Cutting the 50k to 15k and mention is it only for *this* term.
Michel Manen: well shouldnt we first find out before we passa law and allocate funds?
Sudane Erato: Michel, we don’t have to use them
Michel Manen: i realise that but if there is no issue why pass a law?
Jon Seattle: Michel, I doubt that is necesary. There is a good chance that even this amount will not be required.
Sudane Erato: the “law” should not be the sam,e as the “budget allocation”
Sudane Erato: IMHO
Jon Seattle: We want to establish that it is nornal for builders to be compensated, at least though a token payment.
Sleazy Writer: My proposal of reducting 50k to 15k and saying it’s only for this term answers the question of for how long this budget is intened.
Michel Manen: no its not the money as such. i just wonder why we should pass a law if there is no issue. We dont know if there is an issue. should we not find out first? thats my question.
Patroklus Murakami: i think that, ideally, we would set a budget for building works in AM *before* building takes place. i feel a bit torn on this one, on the one hand L$50 or L$15k is a very small amount for the building work. on the other hand, it shd really be agreed before any work takes place. but we are where we are and so we should seek to make things right from where we are now
Sudane Erato: oh… i think there *IS* an issue
Jon Seattle: Yes, there is an issue.
Michel Manen: i agree with pats comment entirely
Michel Manen: so there IS an issue then?
Sleazy Writer: it’s important to get Dnate as “ready as possible” for this
Sleazy Writer: and allocating money helps
Patroklus Murakami: i’m getting lost 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: could ppl say what they consider ‘the issue’ to be?
Patroklus Murakami: i think there are potentially several in play here
Michel Manen: sudane u know AM builders who will not grant licenses for a token amount?
Jon Seattle: Lets do this. Lets remove B6 to a budget amendment and debate it after this bill.
Jon Seattle: Sorry A6.
Sleazy Writer: good idea
Sudane Erato: that makes sense Jon
Brian Livingston: Agreed
Patroklus Murakami: i agree jon, but let’s not lose sight of the budget issue as it is live right now
Jon Seattle: We will handle it today I think.
Sleazy Writer: may I suggest one amendment to the bill?
Brian Livingston: It should probably be added to the agenda as item 2b
Patroklus Murakami: go ahead sleazy
Leon Ash: I’m listening
Sleazy Writer: my suggestion is to add to B.9 (reviewing the inventory of the archival avatar) to add “”The audit should be conducted according to the procedures outlined in section C.” … The reviewing people should also keep to rules (in section C) like not copying content to their other avatars or regular avatars etc.
Michel Manen: well that changes nothing to my question. Are there AM builders who will not grant licenses for a token amount? if no, there is no issue nowm and this bill is unnecessary. If yes, we should first find out what those builders demands are before we discuss and pass a law. At least thats how i see it.
Jon Seattle: Michel, this bill is not about payment to builders per se. We have removed that to a later discussion. This is about keeping backups of CDS content.
Sleazy Writer: Michel, the New Guild secretary wants to give the NG builders the explicit option to choose whether they want payment. Alexicon told me a while back that he was indeed considering a payment.
Sudane Erato: Token amount or real amount, the issue is the same. We need a bill like this.
Leon Ash: You said it Sudane
Michel Manen: hello princess
Sleazy Writer: hi Princess
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello
Jon Seattle: Hi Princess 🙂
Leon Ash: Hi ThePrincess?
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: dont ask
Michel Manen: ah so the issue is AM builders want to be paid for their work thats fine.
Jon Seattle: I accept Sleazy’s suggestion as a friendly amendment.
Sleazy Writer: So my small proposed amendment to this bill is, to add a line of text to B-9 that says that the people who review the inventory of the archival avatar should also keep to procedures like those for the Content Archivist. (which is in section C)
Patroklus Murakami: no, i think the issue is that we need a form of IP licensing agreement for content in AM (and throughout the CDS). the issue of token or substantial payment is a separate one
Sleazy Writer: And the text for that could be: “The audit should be conducted according to the procedures outlined in section C.”
Michel Manen: ok pat
Jon Seattle: Yes, Pat is exactly right. This is about protecting CDS instructure, our public buildings and roads, and not about payments.
Patroklus Murakami: jon, are you content with sleazy’s amendment?
Jon Seattle: I am.
Jon Seattle: I move that this bill be adopted.
Jon Seattle: (as amended)
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sensing a conclusion to the discussion
Michel Manen: don t the 2 overlap? i mean since work is mostly done in AM, protecting infrastructure means making a payment no?
Michel Manen: sure u can close it if u want.
Patroklus Murakami: are RA members happy to go to a vote on this? it was posted on the forums only yesterday
ThePrincess? Parisi: what amendments were made? can i wait to vote or can you tell me
Leon Ash: I’m happy to proceed.
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, we’re discussing the IP Licencing and Content Archivist Bill
Patroklus Murakami: I’ll scroll back for the amendments
ThePrincess? Parisi: i know
Patroklus Murakami: just a sec
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have read it
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just want to know what you changed today
Sleazy Writer: (With the 50,000 L$ max left out, and with “simple majority” specified for the RA firing a CA.)
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
Jon Seattle: Princess, Sleazy’s amendment about the Chancellor and Dean respecting the CA rules, and some small clairification on lanuage: the CA may be fired by a majority of the RA.
ThePrincess? Parisi: nice..
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: Line A6 is removed. this will be considered as a budgetary amendment separately
Jon Seattle: yes. nods. very important.
Patroklus Murakami: votes are by simple majority (to hire and fire the CA)
Patroklus Murakami: and Sleazy Writer: So my small proposed amendment to this bill is, to add a line of text to B-9 that says that the people who review the inventory of the archival avatar should also keep to procedures like those for the Content Archivist. (which is in section C)
Patroklus Murakami: i have heard that leon is ready to vote. are other RA members ready to vote on this bill?
Brian Livingston: I’m ready
Jon Seattle: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: yep
Patroklus Murakami: and i am ready too
Patroklus Murakami: so let’s vote on the bill as amended. pls say ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
Jon Seattle: Aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Leon Ash votes Aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: thank you. that passes
Sleazy Writer: Thanks reps 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: now, let’s consider the proposed budgetary amendment
Leon Ash: sure
Patroklus Murakami: Sleazy has proposed a reduced amount of L$15k to cover potential compensation for AM builders. any further discussion on that point?
Jon Seattle: Here is the text: L$ 50,000 is allocated to the Chancellor to provide, where necessary, reasonable compensation to builders who have constructed substantial public CDS structures in Alpine Meadow.
Leon Ash: None from me
Patroklus Murakami: (reduced from 50k in the original draft)
Jon Seattle: Do we want to reduce the amount as Sleazy suggests?
Michel Manen: well should we not first find out 1) what the AM builders demands are and 2 ) what funds are available in the budget as of now?
Sleazy Writer: Do you want to delay things Michel?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i hav a hat
Sleazy Writer: It’s important to get these agreements signed, and a back-up copy for the CDS.
Jon Seattle: Sudane can correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think we have this in the current budget.
Sudane Erato: there should be some small fund available
Michel Manen: no . i just want to have the facts before i vote on a budget bill.
Sudane Erato: and 15 or 50 are both reasonable amounts
Michel Manen: lol you vote
Sleazy Writer: No vote for you time
Michel Manen: hahasorry
Leon Ash: Technically I think Michel’s approach is the right one. Don’t think it is very pragmatic at the moment, but in the ideal world that is how it should work 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: long night michel?
Patroklus Murakami: now now, an easy slip of the keyboard to make 🙂
Michel Manen: very prin
ThePrincess? Parisi: and he is right but i do make hats and we can pick a number out if you want
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thik we need facts too
Michel Manen: lol
Sudane Erato: a law is ineffective if you do not fund it somehow… even if in a limited fashion
Michel Manen: yup
Sudane Erato: it must have some money to start
Sleazy Writer: exactly
Jon Seattle: Well, passing this allows the Chancellor to go ahead with the negotation. There is no requirement that he spend the full amount.
Sudane Erato: we can learn from experience, and revise the amounts when the new budget is drafted
Jon Seattle: And if it requires more he can always come back with an additional request.
Michel Manen: but first we must know what the requirements are and what funds are avaialble. then we can make an informed and financially responsible decision
Sudane Erato: yes
Leon Ash: I think the 15k figure is a reasonable and realistic starting point so things can move forward, rather than stagnate again
Patroklus Murakami: but the assumption is that ppl are working on AM for token amounts, isn’t it?
Michel Manen: why 15K? i dont understand where that number comes from. its not a money issue. its an issue of principle. We dont know the demand, we dont know the dupply, and weestablish a capped price?
Sleazy Writer: The New Guild secretary wants to keep options open for their builders
Sudane Erato: we assume that perhaps, but we don’t really need to frioce that to be the case
Patroklus Murakami: (even 15-50k is hardly a realistic price to expect)
Sudane Erato: true
Michel Manen: so lets find out first.
Patroklus Murakami: well, we could ask the New Guild to go away and prepare a budget on the basis of discussion with builders…. and delay the remaining work on AM
Sudane Erato: if we wait to find out first, then I suggest that we authorize the Chancellor to spend a certain amount as needed
Sudane Erato: before we get to furhter authorization
Patroklus Murakami: or we can establish a budget and the chancellor can come back if further authorisation is needed
Michel Manen: well that amounts to the same: authorising a random amount ot be spent before the facts are even known.
Jon Seattle: I like your latter suggestion. No need to slow this process in this case.
Patroklus Murakami: either way is fiscally responsible but the second gets the job done!
Sudane Erato: yes, and perhaps the chancellor should find out those facts
Jon Seattle: Michel, don’t you trust the Chancelor to make resonable decisions?
Moon Adamant: hi all 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Brian Livingston waves to moon
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Leon Ash: Hi Moon
Sleazy Writer: I trust Dnate will handle this responsibly, so I don’t see the problem with 15k for the remaining month .. Michel is complicating things. I don’t think he researched the financials of his Multi-100 dollar VPR bill .. So I don’t know why’s he’s making a fuss about this.
Michel Manen: ok . so let him do that, report back, sudane can tell us what fundss are available, and we can make an informed deicsion then
Patroklus Murakami: we’re discussing the potential budget for building works in AM
Moon Adamant hugs Jon
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: as I said, 15 or 50 are reasonable amounts
Patroklus Murakami: we lost Leon
Patroklus Murakami: oh, he’s back!
Patroklus Murakami: wb leon
Brian Livingston: Niow you didn’t, he’s just flying about ;p
Leon Ash: Nope, I just sat on Moon’s lap by accident 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i see
Brian Livingston: No*
Leon Ash: Sorry moon
Jon Seattle: I move that we amend the budget as Sleazy suggested, with the expetation that further amounts may be needed in the next budget cycle.
Patroklus Murakami: RA members, are you ready to vote on this?
Jon Seattle: yes
Moon Adamant: i would only like to make a comment
Brian Livingston: I’d like to hear the comment before voting
Patroklus Murakami: hmm moon, we’re in teh middle of a vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: no
Brian Livingston: so I’m voting no not ready
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too not ready let moon talk
Patroklus Murakami: meh
ThePrincess? Parisi: meh?
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Michel Manen: hem?
Patroklus Murakami: an indication of frustration
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
Sleazy Writer: Alpine Chamois say “meh”?
Patroklus Murakami: shame we couldn’t have had the discussion before a vote was called
Patroklus Murakami: moon, what did you have to say?
Moon Adamant: ah sorry
Moon Adamant: really sory for interrupting, i’ll try to be brief
Moon Adamant: just a comment that next time, we will require from the RA – along with other previous decisions – an expected amount for spending in content
Moon Adamant: with the due understanding that this is extremely difficult to calculate
ThePrincess? Parisi: next time?
Moon Adamant: nevertheless, there is a principle that should be defended by a vote: the right of work being paid… even if the builders exert their freedom in donating stuff to the CDS
Moon Adamant: next sim .9
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Michel Manen: this is why as pat said this disussion should have taken place before the AM construction began; I for one was under the impression – and i can well be wrong – that all those who agreed to work on AM were doing it on a voluntary basis.
Moon Adamant: i wonder how you could be so sure of that
Patroklus Murakami: thank you for that moon. do you have anything further to add
Moon Adamant: if you had read the IP license contract with care, you’d notice that it contains a clause for a payment
Patroklus Murakami: we can’t assume that our sims will be built exclusively by volunteer labour. and the principle of payment in exchange for work is a good one. the lack of it has got us into deep water in the past
Michel Manen: i said i was not sure and i may be wrong. but starting work with no idea of what budget is available and once work is done starting to negotiate is not the way to go at all
Patroklus Murakami: now. are we ready to vote on the budgetary amendment? RA members please say ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
Jon Seattle: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aah, we lost theprincess
Brian Livingston: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Patroklus Murakami: leon?
Patroklus Murakami: everybody still here?
Brian Livingston pokes Leon
Michel Manen: yes
Jon Seattle: yup
Patroklus Murakami: anyone able to rouse leon?
Brian Livingston: Trying
Moon Adamant: does anyone have a whistle sound?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jon Seattle: 😀
Moon Adamant: or a hello?
Moon Adamant: something?
Sudane Erato: throw a snoball at him
Sleazy Writer: heheh
Sudane Erato: hehe
Squirt Gun: Ready
Snowball Thrower: Use Mouselook (press ‘M’) to shoot me.
Snowball Thrower: Choose ‘Detach’ from my menu to take me off.
Sudane Erato: lol
Leon Ash: Sorry everyone, just catching up
Sudane Erato: yay!
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Sleazy Writer: wb
Sudane Erato: the snowball worked!
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty leon 🙂
Leon Ash: LOL … sorry got distracted by Harry Potter 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: let’s proceed to agree the amount. i suggest we vote on 50k first, then 15k second
Jon Seattle: sure.
Patroklus Murakami: so, on L$50k for the budgetary amendment pls vote ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
Brian Livingston: nay
Michel Manen: i think we should find out what the builders requirements are first. unless we know already the total amount is below either 50 k or 15 k
Jon Seattle: aye
Leon Ash votes nay
Advanced Object-Scanner? HUD 1.94a (WEAR ME): The scanner on steroids – secondlife://Titian/135/223/351/
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: wb theprincess 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
Patroklus Murakami: so the 50k falls
Jon Seattle: wb Princess
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
ThePrincess? Parisi: i crashed
Brian Livingston: wb 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: now, on 15k for the budgetary amendment pls vote ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
Brian Livingston: aye
Jon Seattle: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain
Patroklus Murakami: ty. that passes
Sleazy Writer: great – thanks reps 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: well done everybody. ty
Patroklus Murakami: let’s try to fit in items 3 and 4 before we all have to go
Patroklus Murakami: i intend to finish at 2pm today if that’s okay with everybody?
Jon Seattle: brb
Jon Seattle: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: yep
Brian Livingston: Sounds good, I have things to do today and can’t stay much longer than 2 hrs
Patroklus Murakami: item 3 is a discussion item on the use of ban lines in Alpine Meadow
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, i know you feel strongly about this. would you like to introduce the topic?
Brian Livingston: Pat – I’d sayt this discussion really should encompass their use across teh CDS, no specifically in AM
Michel Manen: from what i understand the cAM ovenant is silent on this no?
Sleazy Writer: Hi MT
Sleazy Writer: correct, CDS ditto
Moon Adamant: all are
Sleazy Writer: (afaik)
ThePrincess? Parisi: well it seems that simply the ban lines interfer withthe CDS experience
Michel Manen: so then lets discuss for all CDS then
ThePrincess? Parisi: and that a person should know when they purchase land that they can
ThePrincess? Parisi: set up a ban list
ThePrincess? Parisi: but not an allow slit
ThePrincess? Parisi: list
ThePrincess? Parisi: and yes all cds
Patroklus Murakami: i recall we had a similar discussion about this some time ago
ThePrincess? Parisi: well its come up again
Patroklus Murakami: a year ago in fact
Michel Manen: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: its a problem now pat
Patroklus Murakami: i’m just trying to find the relevant thread as teh arguments are pretty much the same
Michel Manen: rudi ruml was very much in favor of ban lines then
Sudane Erato: the current individual put up a ban line by mitake
Sudane Erato: I spoke to him, and he apologized
Sudane Erato: and he removed it
ThePrincess? Parisi: the issue is having it in law
Sudane Erato: it was up for hardly more than 24 hrs
Michel Manen: ah thats fine 😉 but should we have a policy on this? thats the question
Patroklus Murakami: yes, ppl are usually reasonable if you talk to them. no one coming to the CDS wants to be a bad neighbour
Sudane Erato: yes, i agree we should
ThePrincess? Parisi: so that its not miusunderstood when a person purchanses land
Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=614&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=white+list
Jon Seattle: Ah, I remember that discussion well
Michel Manen: its not against any one individual sudane it was just a triggger to raise an issue and see if we want to address it globally
ThePrincess? Parisi: nonetheless it needs to be clear upon purchase
ThePrincess? Parisi: the thing thats diff now is that a person can buy land with out discusions now
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i think we are in need of having it clearly stated that they are not allowed ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have had neighbors in CN put them up too
ThePrincess? Parisi: a blue man
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets see
Michel Manen: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: hewas a carrying a basket at one point
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
Patroklus Murakami: can we just probe the discussion a bit? why *should* we stop ppl from using the security systems LL has put into the client? what problem are we trying to solve? aren’t we infringing on the rights of the individual?
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Michel Manen: do we want an RA decision on this or do we leave it up to the Chancellor’s discretion? thats the issue
ThePrincess? Parisi: we are infringing on their rights for the good of the community
ThePrincess? Parisi: its not mainland
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think its important as we grow to make sure that we keep it a welcoming envioronment pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: and ban lines are NOT welcoming
Michel Manen: i totally agree with Princess
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t like ban lines at all. i agree they’re hideous. but should they be banned by law? when i’ve had them put up by neighbours i’ve talked to them. always solves teh problem 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes tehy should
ThePrincess? Parisi: always
ThePrincess? Parisi: well one time they wont
ThePrincess? Parisi: and someone will have bought land not knowing
Michel Manen: well lol thats what we are here to discuss pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then it wont be fixed.. so politely
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need to tell them ahead of time
Leon Ash: FWIW, I don’t like ban lines myself, but am reluctant to ban ban lines by default?
Sudane Erato: i agree with ThePrincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: why leon? if i buy here and want to ban lines
ThePrincess? Parisi: put them up then what do you do
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
Michel Manen: the question is are the alternative security tools as effective but less intusive than ban lines?
ThePrincess? Parisi: sudane..
Sudane Erato: the existence of ban lines is an actual alteration of the community
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes they are
Michel Manen: if yes no rights are infringed if we ban Ban Lines 😉
Sudane Erato: Ban linmes are a very weak security tool
Leon Ash: I’m very happy that ban lines are not general practice in the CDS
ThePrincess? Parisi: it infringes on my rights to enjoy the community if they have them…
Sudane Erato: a griefer can overcome them easily
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t like the idea of legislating for behaviour in this way
ThePrincess? Parisi: well why dont you want them then
Michel Manen: sudane are there better alternative tools to acheive the same effect?
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is the opposite of yellow
Sudane Erato: and they only work for 30m up
Leon Ash: But, I don’t like the idea of trying to legislate for every eventuallity
Patroklus Murakami: and telling ppl what they can do with their property in such an authoritarian way
ThePrincess? Parisi: so do we wait til its a problem?
Sudane Erato: Michel, I think you need to define “the effect”
ThePrincess? Parisi: or anticipate a thing that would greatly alter the landscape
Michel Manen: not when equally effective and less intrusive tools are available Pat
Patroklus Murakami: Whilst I do not like white lists and resent being bumped by them, I dislike even more the tought of the government legislating what a citizen can and cannot do on his / her property to ensure security and privacy
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets set some up and walk from CN to NFS
ThePrincess? Parisi: just three sets
Patroklus Murakami: (your words michel :))
Leon Ash: LOL, this is so funny. Not even an hour ago we were seeign arguments against implementing a law as it wasn’t a problem and now we have the reverse ;-)))
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i really don’t think this *is* a problem. when it has occurred we talk to ppl and they solve the problem
Brian Livingston: I’m torn, as I am not crazy about the precident it sets, but then again we already legislate that certain prctices are not permitted on CDS sims
Michel Manen: i agree. thats why i am saying that if there are alternative means that are equally effective we could consider this, otherwise it is difficult to do so
ThePrincess? Parisi: welljust lets wait til we get complaints about ban lines then .. np
Patroklus Murakami: always the best way to go about things in my book
ThePrincess? Parisi: omg i was being sarcastic
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats no way to do things
ThePrincess? Parisi: imo
Brian Livingston: Spinning signs and pornography as two examples. Both of which are banned as they are contrary to community values, which seems to be the rationale behind this proposal.
Jon Seattle: Has someone written a bill we can consider to deal with this?
Michel Manen: so we wish to deal with each case ad hoc on an individual basis?
ThePrincess? Parisi: dnate is allowed to do it not me
ThePrincess? Parisi: hows that
Michel Manen: pat lets first find out what we all think about it before pushing a bill
Jon Seattle: Well, without a bill I don’t see how we can move ahead.
Patroklus Murakami: this is down as a discussion item. a bill can come later. i’m going to call time on the discussion in a few minutes though
Michel Manen: i think that if equally effective alterantive means exist no rights are infringed and the community’s interest benefits and we should consider it.
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we put a bill up now
Michel Manen: we dont havre it drafted princess
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do
Patroklus Murakami: is there room for a non-legislative statement of community principles? for example, if we included a statement in teh covenant saying that we discourage the use of white lists because of the blight on the landscape?
ThePrincess? Parisi: it just needs to be in the covenent now that ppl buy land directly potentially with no contact with anyone in CDS
Michel Manen: ok pat thats a good idea how is that enforced?
Brian Livingston: I think that would overcomplicate the covenant by adding yet another part to it
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think we need to ‘enforce’. we can try *talking to ppl* and *reasoning with them*. it works really well!
Moon Adamant: well, if you are going to legislate on that, you need to have it on the covenant
Michel Manen: brian thas not a valid reason the covenant is already complicated one clause wont change that
Sudane Erato: the covenant is already of biblical proportions… a little more won’t hurt 🙂
Moon Adamant: you can’t expect buyers to go navigate through our wiki to check all legislation that coudl apply
Patroklus Murakami: lol sudane 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: it shoudl be known before a person agrees to buy the land
Michel Manen: haha right sudane
Moon Adamant: i do wonder why you all think that the covenant is complicated 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: sleazy wrote the bil: ban lines are not allowed in CDS
Michel Manen: for me the issue is about equally effective alternative means
Michel Manen: any one can offer any comments on that?
Sudane Erato: yes, you need to define wto what ends the means apply
Jon Seattle: Princess, we would have to add it to the published covenents.
ThePrincess? Parisi: that would be fine Jon
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t know anything about security systems. they’re fairly useless and annoying in my experience. far worse than the Lindens’ system
Jon Seattle: So more than one line may be necesary 🙂
Michel Manen: to acheive the samee security and privacy ends as do the ban lines sudane
ThePrincess? Parisi: personaly i dont want a notice that i have to leave in 10 seconds or ill be tpd to home either
Sudane Erato: i think the intent of this bill is to indicate that the securoty provided by ban lines is inappropriate in the CDS
Michel Manen: indeed; and also allow alernative security means that are as effective
Michel Manen: but much less intrusive
Patroklus Murakami: we have twenty minutes left. i propose we move on to item 4 so that we get some discussion on that
Jon Seattle: Okay
Michel Manen: well wait.. what happens with this matter?
Patroklus Murakami: well michel. this is the problem when there’s no bill
Patroklus Murakami: there’s no resolution to the issue
Sudane Erato: a bill should get presented before the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: well we will submit it next week
Patroklus Murakami: we have held an initial discussion
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you very much Pat
Patroklus Murakami: if there’s a bill prepared, we can discuss it at a future meeting
Michel Manen: ok. so we have no general consensus on what wew could do?
Patroklus Murakami: of course we have no concensus. how could we in the time available?
ThePrincess? Parisi: moving on
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest putting a proposal on the forums and getting some discussion going
Patroklus Murakami: yes, moving on
Michel Manen: well some things are so clear that we do agree lol
Michel Manen: ok pat
Patroklus Murakami: who would like to introduce item 4 on the sale of prim lots in NFS?
Sudane Erato: i guess i could
Patroklus Murakami: pls do sudane
Michel Manen: 😉
Sudane Erato: when the new rule about allowing direct sale of parcels went into effect…
Sudane Erato: we neglected to note that the special prim parcels are only set aside for certain existing parcel owners
Sudane Erato: therefore…
Sudane Erato: they cannot be offered for public sale
Sudane Erato: we need an effective system to deal with this limitation
Sudane Erato: thats it 🙂
Sudane Erato: i have no proposal… except to sprwead the word
Brian Livingston: Well, again this affets Colonia Nova, correct?
Brian Livingston: I’m assumign i can’t jsut put my prim plot up for sale to anyone
Sudane Erato: yes… the R.o1xx parcels are prinm parcels
Jon Seattle: Perhaps we can require that prim lots be bought only though direct contact, the old way?
Sudane Erato: thats right
Michel Manen: tecnically i think you can Brian
Sudane Erato: yes, Jon… but that begs the question of how they will be publicized
Sudane Erato: the owner is at a real disadvantage
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think that you just add to the covenet the box to check that you also own a little house
ThePrincess? Parisi: or you cant purchase
ThePrincess? Parisi: why is that so difficult
Sudane Erato: ThePrincess?, the covenants are sim-wide
Brian Livingston: What would the effet be on the treasurey if owners simply buy and sell to and from the CDS
Jon Seattle: ThePrincess?, people do not read that closely
Sudane Erato: they cannot apply to a single parcel
Brian Livingston: The CDS will buy it back when the owner is ready to sell
Sudane Erato: yes, not to mention that they are never read
Patroklus Murakami: the requirement that these parcels only go to certain types of property owner is a bit of a fiddly issue. what would be the effect of just allowing prim parcels for sale with no restriction?
Sudane Erato: the effect would be, Pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: if they buy land with a covenent and dont read it? JOn.. are you saying ppl cant read covenents why do you have them then
Sudane Erato: that City parcel owners, particularly in NFS
Michel Manen: i think that would defeat the purpose of prim lots
Sudane Erato: would be SEVERELY cramped for prims
Michel Manen: yes sudane i totally agree
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do too..
Jon Seattle: Princess, I am just saying that if we can avoid embarresing land reclamation (making our potential customer mad) than why not?
Sudane Erato: we hold those asoide, just for them
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. just trying to find a simple solution to the problem. we seem to have created a rod for our own backs
Michel Manen: sudane is right
Sudane Erato: i agree, Pat… we would want a simple solution
ThePrincess? Parisi: so those are held separate and cannot be set for sale? that seems reasonable
Michel Manen: prim lots should nott be offered for general sale.
Sudane Erato: perhaps a place on the website can be set aside
Patroklus Murakami: we could just allow them to be bought and sold as normal parcels. that would make them highly desirable and the price woudl go up. some city plot owners would be hard done by as a result though
Sudane Erato: just to list available prim lots
Michel Manen: no pat that would result in what sudane deplored could happen
ThePrincess? Parisi: so now it seems we have a discussion about whether the lots need to be even held.. can you even get a house on those with no extra pims
ThePrincess? Parisi: prims
ThePrincess? Parisi: i dont think you can
ThePrincess? Parisi: certainly not any thing in it
Sudane Erato: many people do
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
ThePrincess? Parisi: well.. then maybe pat is right..
Patroklus Murakami: well, it might. but in general it’s better to let the market sort out such issues (and i know i’m *supposed* to be a socialist but still…)
Sudane Erato: there are two free prim lots now in NFS
Sudane Erato: and several in CN
Sudane Erato: but NFS has 20
Michel Manen: so you want to do away with prim lots pat?
Patroklus Murakami: there are free prim lots in CN? i must talk to you about that sudane!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: ask, and thou shall be answered 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: no, i’m not suggesting gettting rid of them. just that we should let them be bought and sold without the cumbersome bureaucratic restrictions we currently place on them
Patroklus Murakami: let the market sort it out 🙂
Michel Manen: indepently of holding a main parcel? thats doing away with prim lots for all intents and purposes
Sudane Erato: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: well.. then the way CN was desighned is changed completely
ThePrincess? Parisi: the landscape will change dramatically
Patroklus Murakami: no, not independantly of holding another lot. just let anyone who already owns land in NFS buy a prim lot
Moon Adamant: not to mention NFS
ThePrincess? Parisi: nods
Michel Manen: i am totally opposed to doing away with prim lots as currently defined for the reasons sudane gave
Sudane Erato: Pat, you’d have the same problem…
Sudane Erato: someone with no parcel at all would buy one
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then places that were designated open space
ThePrincess? Parisi: weould be filled
Sudane Erato: well.. you COULD keep in place NO BUILD covenants zoning
Sudane Erato: which now applies to the prim parcels
Patroklus Murakami: hmmm. tricky 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i like that.. compromise.. keep prim lots but dont say who can use them
Sudane Erato: yes
Michel Manen: so if someone can buy 4 prim plots on the maket should be able to cos they can pay for it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and not build on them
Sudane Erato: hehe… i would buy them all up in a second! 🙂
Michel Manen: i think its a recipe for highest bidder takes all and would lead us where sudane says it will
Patroklus Murakami: why not? then ppl can sort this out by making offers to each other for property they want. like in RL
Sudane Erato: i have to agree with Michel
Michel Manen: no pat this is not rl
Michel Manen: were talking prims here
ThePrincess? Parisi: and rose will get all the prims 🙁
Leon Ash: I have to call it an evening. Night all 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the alternative is rigging the market and creating work for sudane and others
ThePrincess? Parisi: night Leon
Michel Manen: hahaha
Sudane Erato: bye leon 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we’re still talking about property, markets and the same RL rules apply
Michel Manen: unwarranted attack on an absent citizen Princes!!
Michel Manen: j/k
Sudane Erato: I suggest a special listing on the website
ThePrincess? Parisi: attack?
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats a comliment
ThePrincess? Parisi: compliment
Michel Manen: joke sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: no more joking in RA
Michel Manen: ok zips it\
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am torn cos i do belive in an open market ..
Michel Manen: i agree with Sudane and disagree with Pat.
Patroklus Murakami: well, i suggest we draw the discussion to a close here. perhaps we could debate some ideas for how to move forward on the forum?
Sudane Erato: good
Michel Manen: ok
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not wedded to my thoughts presented here
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: just thinking aloud 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too
ThePrincess? Parisi: and ill raise my prices to you now Pat
Sudane Erato: haha
Michel Manen: wow wewre thinking! progress! 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hehe, not too far or i won’t pay!
Sudane Erato: tsk!
ThePrincess? Parisi: Michel..
Michel Manen: sorry i forgot the no joke rule
ThePrincess? Parisi gets out the ruler
Patroklus Murakami: meh once more 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: im going
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
Patroklus Murakami: i propose we adjourn
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Moon Adamant: bye Princess 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: MT
Patroklus Murakami: bye TP
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
MT Lundquist: yes p
ThePrincess? Parisi smiles
Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂
Jon Seattle: Bye 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye sorry i have to run..
MT Lundquist: bye all
Brian Livingston: We stand adjourned?
Michel Manen: bye bye for now
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
Patroklus Murakami: ty everybody
Moon Adamant: thansk everyone 🙂
Sleazy Writer: Btw guys
The meeting closed at 14:1 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: December 16, 2007

Meeting on 2007-12-16
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i suggest we begin
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch teh recorder to indicate consent for the chat log
Patroklus Murakami: agenda items are in the wooden box on the table
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: we have one item on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: this was briefly discussed at last week’s meeting
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: the CDS tour bill
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, would you like to introduce this proposal?
ThePrincess? Parisi: its the guided tour bill
Patroklus Murakami: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: and we propose as many ppl have said that they agree with
ThePrincess? Parisi: that a tour of the three sims be established
ThePrincess? Parisi: the main purpose is to not only show the sims
ThePrincess? Parisi: in a contolled manner
ThePrincess? Parisi: but more importanly
ThePrincess? Parisi: to give ou t timely information about CDS
ThePrincess? Parisi: and to have a way to direct ppl physically around the sims and to give them the informaion we want them to have regarding CDS
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: ty for that. does anyone have questions or comments about the proposal?
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: What would be the role or relationship of the PIO to this project?
ThePrincess? Parisi: that is something i have been thinkgin about
ThePrincess? Parisi: perheps there are two levels of information
ThePrincess? Parisi: a core set of info .. about CDS with RA approval
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then rose/ pio can set out the more timely info
ThePrincess? Parisi: events etc
ThePrincess? Parisi: does that answer
ThePrincess? Parisi: what do you all think
Jon Seattle: I have more questions 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i have a couple of questions too. but go ahead jon
ThePrincess? Parisi: good
Jon Seattle: How would the authors / editorial board for this info be selected?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think this is the most imoportant part and i think the RA should do it
Sudane Erato: why does this need to be approved by the RA at all?
ThePrincess? Parisi: the entire project? or the information piece
Sudane Erato: it really should be a simple part of the promotional effort
Patroklus Murakami: there are two blanks to fill in the text of the bill – head of teh tour committee and a budget. any proposals for who/how much those shd be?
ThePrincess? Parisi: what do you think jon
ThePrincess? Parisi: leon crashed
Sudane Erato: yes
Jon Seattle: poor Leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: quorum?
Patroklus Murakami: i think this needs RA approval for the budget item but i think the rest could probably be decided by the exec. but i have no problem with stepping on dnate’s toes this time 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we can continue discussion in the absence of a quorum
Sudane Erato: i agree Pat
Patroklus Murakami: and hope that leon is able to rejoin us
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree about the budget issue pat
Jon Seattle: I guess, to try and answer that question, it would be nice if the tour reflected a balanced mix of viewpoints
ThePrincess? Parisi: and more importatn even that the
ThePrincess? Parisi: information
ThePrincess? Parisi: exactly
ThePrincess? Parisi: has the potential to be controversial
ThePrincess? Parisi: and we need to make sure all agree
ThePrincess? Parisi: balanced
ThePrincess? Parisi: i htink that needs to happen here
Jon Seattle: So perhaps the RA should have some role, though I would like to see it supplement rather than replace the executive branch in this.
ThePrincess? Parisi: what role will dnate have
ThePrincess? Parisi: wb leon
Jon Seattle: wb Leon 🙂
Leon Ash: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: well this seems very much like something the PIO would work on. not sure what dnate’s role would be
Jon Seattle hands Leon a new internet provider 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: me neithier
Sudane Erato: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think its a mix of PIO and RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: we set the basic/core info and the pio adds
Patroklus Murakami: the RA can provide balance so that the texts are reflective of the mix in the community
ThePrincess? Parisi: indeed
Jon Seattle: Princess, have you discussed this with Rose and Dnate as yet?
Patroklus Murakami: and don’t appear ‘one-sided’ (though I doubt they would in reality)
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have discussed some aspects with rose
ThePrincess? Parisi: but not with dnate .. i think er.. perhaps just that a tour woudl be good
ThePrincess? Parisi: but no details
Patroklus Murakami: who would head the tour committee? how much would this cost?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i konw there is support from the community on the general concept of a tour of this nature
ThePrincess? Parisi: between 4500 and 6 K
ThePrincess? Parisi: l
Patroklus Murakami: yes, it seems like a good idea. difficult to see a good reason to object to it 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Jon Seattle: My thought is that the exec / PIO might take the lead, and the RA serve as a kind of editorial board
ThePrincess? Parisi: sounds fine with me JOn
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can be the fall guys if they dont like how its put
Patroklus Murakami: i think that rose and dnate are quite busy. so they will need someone else (heading the tour cttee) to drive it forward. i agree that the RA should act as a kind of editorial board though. i just hope we don’t slow things down too much 🙂
Jon Seattle: indeed
ThePrincess? Parisi: we wont if i can help it
Patroklus Murakami: we=the new RA!
ThePrincess? Parisi: im gald to head the committee and work with rose
ThePrincess? Parisi: who else wants to be involved
Patroklus Murakami: i would suggest calling a meeting of ppl interested in helping
ThePrincess? Parisi: k
Patroklus Murakami: that would go wider than the RA and citizens here present
Jon Seattle: yes, good idea
ThePrincess? Parisi: of course
Leon Ash: It sure does
Patroklus Murakami: i think the virtus/monastery group would probably be keen to help
MT Lundquist: i’m happy to assist in this
ThePrincess? Parisi: great
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we voet
ThePrincess? Parisi: vote
Patroklus Murakami: so, the head of the tour committee would be theprincess, and the budget is L$6k?
Jon Seattle: Lets do this, give our okay to this plan as a sense of the RA resolution, but expect the comittee to come back with more details, timeline, budget etc.
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that neessary
ThePrincess? Parisi: we dont want it too slwo
ThePrincess? Parisi: slow
Jon Seattle: No, it should not slow things down too much. My point is that this need not be a law, its mor of a project
Patroklus Murakami: well, the RA will need to approve the text of the notecards for example. that would mean some oversight of the process but hopefully not too much delay
Jon Seattle: I think we can do the budget line now if you like
Jon Seattle: *more of
ThePrincess? Parisi: the tour costs 4500 L
ThePrincess? Parisi: and the extra cars or different vehicles are 450
ThePrincess? Parisi: some of them
ThePrincess? Parisi: but if a person object s to the tour and complains it might be good to have a law?
ThePrincess? Parisi: it wil travel about the sims
ThePrincess? Parisi: right of access
ThePrincess? Parisi: what do you think
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to pass this as it is provided the RA is involved in producing the materials. it’s a three month trial and the RA can intervene if it’s not happy. i say ‘go for it’
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Jon Seattle: Sounds good to me
Patroklus Murakami: it sounds like we’re ready to vote
Patroklus Murakami: let’s approve a budget of L$6k so there’s reasonable headroom
Patroklus Murakami: and theprincess as head of the tour committee
Patroklus Murakami: RA members pls say ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
Leon Ash votes aye
Jon Seattle: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: that passes 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we have no further items on the agenda today
Sudane Erato: short meeting! 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you very much i will do the best i can to make this good for CDS
Sudane Erato: great 🙂
Jon Seattle: Brian just asked for a 7-day in an email
Jon Seattle: though it does not sound as if there will be anything more to vote on 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: alexion is here
Patroklus Murakami: well this can go to 7-day but it’s already passed with 4 in favour 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: he canvote
Patroklus Murakami: hi alexikon. oh, we lost him
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we adjourn as we have no more business. we can continue to chat informally if you like
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂
Jon Seattle: sounds good. Thanks.
Leon Ash: Till next time
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
MT Lundquist: bye
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned. ty everybody
The meeting closed at 12:40 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: January 20, 2008

Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 166, 41)

Meeting on 2008-01-20
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: huggs
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle: Hi MT
Patroklus Murakami: please touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded for the chat log
MT Lundquist: hi
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
Alexicon Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll begin the penultimate meeting of this RA
Patroklus Murakami: there’s only one agenda item – approval of aliasi’s appointment as content archivist
Patroklus Murakami: the law says the appointment is made by the SC and then ratified (or not) by the RA
Patroklus Murakami: the SC appointed aliasi at their last meeting
Patroklus Murakami: so it is up to us to consider
Patroklus Murakami: would anyone like to speak on this item or request further information?
Jon Seattle: Sure. I would like to support Alisi’s nomination for this spot.
ThePrincess? Parisi: Only that i have spoken with her about this and she seems sincere about wanting to do it.. and i would be agreed to have her.
Jon Seattle: She has experience for more than one term as chancellor
Jon Seattle: Knows our environment and building well
Jon Seattle: and has proven very responsible in carrying our her duties
Jon Seattle: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: i think aliasi will do a fine job, and it’s an important post to fill
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you jon
Patroklus Murakami: are we ready to vote? please say aye or nay
Jon Seattle: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Alexicon Kurka: aye
Patroklus Murakami: leon? ready to vote?
Leon Ash: I was just aobut to ask if I still do
Leon Ash: but Aye
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Jon Seattle: yes you certainly do 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the new RA starts in february
Patroklus Murakami: there’s still life in this one yet 🙂
Leon Ash: Ah, hence the penultimate
PMRobert Walpole: Hello…. Am I disturbing?
Leon Ash: Hi PMRobert
Patroklus Murakami: ok, on the appointment of aliasi as content archivist, could i have your votes please? aye to approve, nay to disapprove
Jon Seattle: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Sonja Strom: PM, this is a meeting of the Representative Assembly. You are welcome to attend as a visitor.
PMRobert Walpole: oh ok thanks
Patroklus Murakami: i think we’re just waiting for one more vote – leon?
Alexicon Kurka: aye
Patroklus Murakami: oh, and alexicon
ThePrincess? Parisi: hes gonna vote
Patroklus Murakami: i beg your pardon
Leon Ash: I vote Aye
Patroklus Murakami: in that case, aliasi is duly appointed as Content Archivist
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
Patroklus Murakami: brian has requested a 7-day vote as he cannot be here today, but with 5/7 votes that passes in any case
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all for today’s agenda. our last meeting will be next sunday at the usual time
Patroklus Murakami: and then the new RA will be sworn in once i’ve found a new meeting time (hoping we can keep it the same as this one)
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we adjourn, though ppl are welcome to stay on and discuss the recent election outcome 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no howls of protest i declare the meeting adjourned 🙂
The meeting closed at 12:20 Linden time.

Permalink.

8th Representative Assembly (25)

Other actions of the 8th RA

Other Actions of the 8th RA

(ed. note: this is a work in progress; complete text of bills NL 8-3, 8-4, and 8-5 will be added soon)

16 March 2008 and 24 March 2008: Adopted RA process rules http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701

24 March2008: Adopted faction elimination amendment (Amendment 23) ; Delcared RA vacancies and called by-election

30 March 2008: Approval of Alexicon Kurka proposal to make nonhub status of Colonia Nova permanent; Election rules (Amendment 24); Set by-election date

6 April 2008: Adopted NL 8-3 Celebrating Our Volunteers Bill (as amended at meeting) http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1764&p=10799&hilit=+Celebrating+our+Volunteers#p10799

19 April 2008: Approved Webportal funding.

3 May 2008: Approved proposal to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova and include at least 42 private lots; Adopted NL 8-4 Private Development Bill (as amended at the meeting) http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

10 May 2008: Approved Webportal funding.

31 May 2008: Approved sim4 plan

7 June 2008: Approved the name “Locus Amoenus”; Approved draft covenants, including the corrections as noted at the meeting and the name “Locus Amoenus”; Approved Altenstadt plan.

28 June 2008: Asked Chancellor to authorise certain reimbursements within 7 days; Created commission on corporate structure issues http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&start=15#p11378

12 July 2008: Removed Chancellor.

18 July 2008: Reprimanded and rescinded removal of Chancellor.

26 July 2008: Adopted NL 8-5 CDS Code Reorganization bill forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 03, 2008

Agenda

1. Swearing in Ceremony
2. LRA ‘State of the CDS’ address
3. Chancellor Election
Summary

Alexicon Kurka was selected by the RA to be Chancellor for the coming term. (Votes for Alexicon – ThePrincess, MT, Patroklus, Sonja. Votes for Jamie Palisades – Brian, Beathan, Bjerkel).
Transcript

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks everybody for attending, we’ve got quite a crowd today :)) hehe
12:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL
12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: sword trumps ruler
12:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: First of all,
12:13 Brian Livingston is a bit worried for Gwyn’s other hand….
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to congratulate all the newly elected RA members, in the name of Calude Desmoulins, who sadly cannot attend today.
12:14 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Jon Seattle (10m)
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Claude even
12:14 Beathan Vale: and this is when we stab in the new members,eh?
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: sheesh can’t type.
12:14 Sudane Erato: hehe
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not… yet, Beathan!
12:14 Brian Livingston: Woo, Ritualistic mass violence!
12:14 Sudane Erato: stab?
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, I’d like to extend my personal thanks too,
12:14 Beathan Vale: or slice —
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as to all the citizens who kept to their democratic duties and continued to give their support to the CDS.
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks guys…. this is our fourth year, and another term.
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn feels *old*
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
12:15 Brian Livingston nods
12:15 Brian Livingston claps
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… usually, the way we do this,
12:15 Bromo Ivory looks for wrinkles
12:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that each RA member will make an affirmation or oath to serve the CDS, its Constitutions and Laws
12:16 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Symo Kurka (8m)
12:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: If my inventory doesn’t fail me, I have a short text ready… which I’ll give to each of the RA members…
12:16 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (9m)
12:17 Bjerkel Eerie: I am logged in on a wifi in a ski area cafeteria just in case I crash, you should know
12:17 Sonja Strom: ok
12:17 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (9m)
12:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn gave you CDS RA Office Affirmation.
12:17 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (8m)
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I gave you one notecard by mistake, I do apologise
12:18 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (10m)
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: … who am I missing? lol
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn < -- suffers from lag 12:18 Sonja Strom: should we have more than one card? 12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: one is enough, Sonja 12:19 You: i got my card 🙂 12:19 ThePrincess? Parisi: i received mine 12:19 Bjerkel Eerie: I got the oath of office 12:19 MT Lundquist: i received it 12:19 MT Lundquist: ty 12:19 Brian Livingston hasn't 12:20 Brian Livingston doesn't need a script, he can just swear and be done with it :p 12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go, Brian 12:20 Sudane Erato: hehe 12:20 Brian Livingston: ty 🙂 12:20 Beathan Vale: haven't 12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Beathan... I might have hit the beer jug instead 12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol 12:20 Sudane Erato: hehe 12:20 Beathan Vale: i would have too — much better thanme 12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let's start 12:21 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (9m) 12:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (there is no real order, but I think that usually we start by 'order of election') 12:21 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (10m) 12:22 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (10m) 12:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: so hmm that would be Pat first? 12:22 Brian Livingston isn'ta big fan of the beer jug's stance on free wine in CN 12:22 You: ok, i can start 12:22 TheWiseThomas? Spyker: GOD WASNT EASY TO BE HERE 12:22 You: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. 12:22 Sonja Strom: 😀 12:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pat 🙂 12:23 Rose Springvale gave you congratulations!. 12:23 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (3m) 12:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ugh, Jon, do you remember the order? 😛 ... I just have it grouped by factions lol 12:23 notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in. 12:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it would be Princess next... 12:24 Jon Seattle: Well, it has to be within faction, as there is no global order 🙂 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: I, ThePrincess? Parisi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help me God. 12:24 Jon Seattle: Oh, yes 12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point — and thank you Princess 😉 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you 12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* 12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well, we have no order any more, lol 12:25 You: no great change there then 🙂 12:25 Justice Soothsayer: careful scratching your head with that sword, Gwyn. 12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: so let's get Brian next 12:25 Jon Seattle: (because candidates are voted within faction 🙂 ) 12:25 Brian Livingston: I, Brian Livingston , having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. 12:25 Cindy Ecksol: 12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn makes a note to talk to Claude for the next term — and thank you Brian!
12:25 Sudane Erato: 🙂
12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja next (there is a hidden login in this), please!
12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *logic
12:26 Sonja Strom: I, Sonja Strom, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Sonja!
12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And now Bjerkel!
12:26 Bjerkel Eerie: I, Bjerkel Eerie of bas typing, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:27 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Rose Springvale (8m)
12:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Bjerkel 🙂 — and it’s your turn now, MT 🙂
12:27 MT Lundquist: I, MT Lundquist, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you MT 🙂
12:27 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Sudane Erato (9m)
12:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the last one 😉
12:27 Beathan Vale: I, Beathan Vale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help me God and keep me steadfast.
12:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol and thanks!
Justice Soothsayer: Bravo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thank you all once more, let’s make this one a wonderful term 🙂
Rose Springvale: applause!!
Jamie Palisades claps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: applause to the new RA, and then let’s have the LRA have his speech 😀
Cindy Ecksol: /calp
Jon Seattle: yea!
Patroklus Murakami: A warm welcome to everyone who has come to this Inaugural Meeting of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Patroklus Murakami: RA members, members of the Scientific Council and CDS citizens and guests, this will be the Eighth Session of the Representative Assembly, our legislature.
Patroklus Murakami: That in itself is an amazing achievement marking three and a half years of democratic self-government. Not only are we the oldest democracy in Second Life, we are also one of the longest-running projects.
Beathan Vale: Note that Pat’s hair keeps getting grayer the longer he is in charge — just like iRL
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: Over that time the CDS has changed a great deal.
Patroklus Murakami: Principally, we have grown in territorial size with our third sim, Alpine Meadow, brought online during the previous term.
Patroklus Murakami: With Alpine Meadow we have joined Neufreistadt and Colonia Nova and the feeling of being ‘one community’ has certainly been strengthened by that.
Patroklus Murakami: We have also grown in confidence – we no longer feel we have to ‘prove’ that democracy can work – we have shown definitively that it can.
Patroklus Murakami: We have also developed politically with new factions becoming established and new citizens becoming active in them.
Patroklus Murakami: This RA will have representation from all four active factions in the CDS and, with no one faction dominating, our tradition of compromise (alongside robust discussion) will hopefully be the theme of the coming six months.
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: CAN ASK QUESTION IN HERE JUST ASKING IN CASE I HAVE A QUESTION
Patroklus Murakami: When we look at what the elected representatives gathered here today have pledged to achieve, we must wonder if six months will be enough!
Patroklus Murakami: From the election manifestos we have plans for expansion, plans to improve accessibility and reach out beyond our current group of citizens, plans to simplify our code of laws, plans to link up with other communities and much more.
Patroklus Murakami: I think we can achieve a lot of that if we are clear about our priorities as a community and if we approach this term in the right spirit – that it’s about making a good place better. I’m confident that the representatives gathered here today will do just that.
Patroklus Murakami: So, with no further pageantry, let’s begin!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pat 🙂
Cindy Ecksol: /cl
Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds
Rose Springvale: bravo !
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear!
Symo Kurka: claps
MT Lundquist: /clap
Jamie Palisades claps
Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Patroklus Murakami smiles
Brian Livingston claps
Jon Seattle: lol
Cindy Ecksol: *lol*
Sonja Strom: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: so, the next item on the agenda is the chancellor election
Sonja Strom: *lol*
Patroklus Murakami: first of all, could i ask everyone to touch the recorder on the table?
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: bye guys nice meeting u
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: this indicates your consent to be recorded for the chat log
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Thomas!
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: ciao
Sonja Strom: bye Thomas ~ ~
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: bye thewisethomas 🙂
Rose Springvale: bye thomas!
Rose Springvale: call me if you want land…
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: kisses to ladies and my hand to to men :0
Sonja Strom: bye bye
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we give the two candidates – alexicon kurka and jamie palisades – five minutes each to present their reasons for wanting to become our next chancellor
Patroklus Murakami: (you don’t need to take all the five minutes though!)
Patroklus Murakami: and then take questions from the RA members and citizens
Patroklus Murakami: finally, we’ll take the vote at about 12:55
Patroklus Murakami: brian, i understand you need to leave at 1pm?
Brian Livingston: Or pretty close to it, yea
Patroklus Murakami: will that work for you?
Brian Livingston: Sounds good Pat, thank you
Patroklus Murakami: smashing 🙂 let’s press on
Patroklus Murakami: alexicon, are you ready to begin?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Alexicon Kurka: OK
Alexicon Kurka: I will begin
Patroklus Murakami: the floor is yours
Alexicon Kurka: I am rather new on CDS
Alexicon Kurka: I joined a few months ago
Alexicon Kurka: From the begining I was amazed by the high ‘level’ of the citizens
Alexicon Kurka: and got involved without beeing very active in the begining to the birth of the renewed party
Alexicon Kurka: I feel that people here have had enough of the fights of the last perios
Alexicon Kurka: and are wishing to cooperatie now
Alexicon Kurka: I would be glad to cooperate with all factions here
Alexicon Kurka: and help achieve the maximum of our targets and wishes
Alexicon Kurka: Myself will be very glad if we can keep our growth momentum
Alexicon Kurka: and involve all citizens to new creative activities
Alexicon Kurka: It will be a great honor to a ‘newbie’ to be the executive for some months
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Bromo Ivory claps
Alexicon Kurka: As there are little differences in the practical positions of the factions I think it will be an easy term
Alexicon Kurka: thanks to everybody that got me involved on CDS
Alexicon Kurka: I have talked to most of the RA memebers but if there are questions I will be glad to answer them
Patroklus Murakami: ty alexicon 🙂
Jamie Palisades claps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Alex :))
ThePrincess? Parisi: /claps
Rose Springvale: applause
MT Lundquist: claps
Brian Livingston: Thanks 🙂
Symo Kurka: claps
Patroklus Murakami: jamie, are you ready?
Arria Perreault: claps
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay alexicon
Jamie Palisades: certainly
Patroklus Murakami: the floor is yours
Jamie Palisades: Less than five minutes, for me, I hope … consistent w both a minimalist government, which I prefer, & an enjoyable SL, which ditto.
Jamie Palisades: Well said, Alex, I agree with much that you said. The overlaps of the faction platforms *ARE* heartening.
Jamie Palisades: And thank you and congratulations to everyone serving. I’m delighted that CDS is my SL home and the source of many friends here.
Jamie Palisades: I mentioned to those enquiring that I have 4 concerns for the gov’t.
Jamie Palisades: By way of transparency, here they are. One is to make our work here as open, fair, enjoyable and receptive to contribution as possible.
Jamie Palisades: We have a lot of platform planks (smile) so the trick is to encourage and motivate execution, I think.
Jamie Palisades: A second is to concretely improve the platform for local commerce. without losing our look & feel, our land rights, or, er, souls.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jamie Palisades: The third
Jamie Palisades: The third is to routinise and make even more predictable our land use rules & enforcement. No complaints – just a
Jamie Palisades: strong desire for transparency, clear, open management of those issues
Jamie Palisades: If one;s going to get in trouble, one ought to be able to see it coming 🙂 we owe that to citizens
Jamie Palisades: finally
Jamie Palisades: The final – and most important – is to model and keep a high level of civility in our self-government & community. Alex would, incidentally, do a fine job too … we’re *both* new here by any reasonable standard
Jamie Palisades: and!
Jamie Palisades: . and! neither of us can do it without high levels of volunteer contribution.
Jamie Palisades: .. So our first prob really will be a staffing one. SPeaking for myself, I do not expect to do any appointing, nor woud I encourage Alex or anyone else to do so, without a great deal of consultation. We’re a model for SL and should remain so – but also, really, this is a smallish, growing community of friends. Fiats do NOT work here.
Jamie Palisades: We have an excellent social ecology. that’s part of what we must design with.
Jamie Palisades: So, Please be ready to help either of us – both of us! – find many, diverse, civil, creative, open-minded and open-handed volunteers to accomplish all the things we hope to achieve. (that’s it)
Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie 🙂
Rose Springvale claps
MT Lundquist: claps
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Alexicon Kurka: claps
ThePrincess? Parisi: applause
Pip Torok: claps
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Brian Livingston claps
Sudane Erato: hehe
Symo Kurka: claps
Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Alexicon Kurka: !-!-!-!_^^^_!-!-!-!
Alexicon Kurka: APPLAUSE
Alexicon Kurka: ~#~~~~~~~~~~~~#~
Sonja Strom: lol
Bromo Ivory claps
Patroklus Murakami: now we have time for questions, who would like to begin?
Pip Torok: me
Bromo Ivory: Is this for RA or anyone?
Pip Torok: whats your feelings if any on the integration and welcoming of newbies?
Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t specify. pip, pls go ahead
Jamie Palisades: heh well both of us were newbies
Jamie Palisades: Alex?
Justice Soothsayer: Would either candidate pref that this position be elected by the total populace; why or why not?
Pip Torok: im thinking of the rather intense amount of time that demands of other citizens
Alexicon Kurka: it seems like we have a lot of newbies
Alexicon Kurka: and tehy are willing to participate emmediately
Alexicon Kurka: at least they can build on skyboxes on AM
Sudane Erato: hehe
Alexicon Kurka: but we need some competitions to stimulate creation
Pip Torok: (nice 2 know where they are!;)
Patroklus Murakami: could you both address justice’s question?
Jamie Palisades: let me type into a box here to getr this out fast, and meet Pat’s deadlines. Pip, CDS newbiew, we like, unconditionally. SL newbies? A differernt admin load. I;d say we are not, and shoud not, optimize for them, but I odn;t wan tot be actively hostile to anyone – nor do our laws permit that 🙂
Jamie Palisades: 🙂 typo laden but clear I hope
Pip Torok: fair enough
Alexicon Kurka: I am satisfied with an election by the RA in order to avoid populistic invasions 🙂
Symo Kurka: i think nobody of us newbies wants populistic invasions
Pip Torok: agree
Symo Kurka: we respecta ad accept rules
Jamie Palisades: I;m an incrementalist, Justice. That woud be a big chang;, my immediate reaction is that popular direct election feels like a bad fit for here.
Symo Kurka: our main need is just a more fluid information in world
Patroklus Murakami: another question?
Cindy Ecksol: ah…maybe our main need is less politics involved in selecting the chancellor?
Patroklus Murakami: last one
Jamie Palisades: haha Cindy, was this one that bad?
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: thanks for thoughtful answers
Cindy Ecksol: I’ll let you know when i see the result….
Bjerkel Eerie: Alex, will you be your own man, serving the will of the RA aand teh goals of teh RA, or will you answer principally to the leadership of NuCARES?
Alexicon Kurka: I prefered to run as chancellor because of the chance to work for all factions in the RA,
Symo Kurka: i think that ifo management and event management should be two different jobs
Symo Kurka: *info
Alexicon Kurka: they are Symo
Symo Kurka: because the amount of both is very huge
Patroklus Murakami: i think we probably need to move to the vote before we run out of RA members 🙂
Alexicon Kurka: we have a PIO for events
Brian Livingston: I can stay a bit logner pat if needbe, but 1:15 is my absolute cutoff point
Brian Livingston: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: who is the time keeper
Patroklus Murakami: five more minutes of questions then 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i have a question
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said 1255
Patroklus Murakami: to both candidates
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need to vote
Patroklus Murakami: what do you think is the most important task facing the new chancellor this term?
Patroklus Murakami: do you need to get going theprincess? my reason for aiming for 1 was brian’s other commitments
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i do
Patroklus Murakami: let’s make this the final question then, alex? jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Pat: Translating all those agreed goals into deliverables, with willing contributors and reasonably peaceful consensus on details
Patroklus Murakami: alex?
Alexicon Kurka: I think that realising of the agreements is the main problem of a chancellor
Alexicon Kurka: key will be keeping the factions working together
Patroklus Murakami: ok, voting. i plan to take each RA member in turn and ask for their vote
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll do it in alphabetical order by first name
Brian Livingston: Are we doing public or private voting with public revelation afterwards?
Brian Livingston: nm
Patroklus Murakami: as we are all here i thought we could do it publicly, like other votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could i have your vote pls?
Beathan Vale: Jamie P
Patroklus Murakami: bjerkel?
Bjerkel Eerie: I vote for jamie
Patroklus Murakami: brian?
Brian Livingston: Jamie Palisades
Patroklus Murakami: MT?
MT Lundquist: alexicon K
Patroklus Murakami: i vote for alexicon
Patroklus Murakami: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: It is a very difficult decision for me,
Sonja Strom: because both are great citizens of the CDS and great people.
Sonja Strom: Very caring about the community.
Sonja Strom: However, I also feel it is important for me to make a decision
Sonja Strom: and overall it is Alexicon.
Patroklus Murakami: ty sonja
Naftali Torok: in raadhuis=
Patroklus Murakami: and finally theprincess
ThePrincess? Parisi: The next Chancellor of CDS ….
ThePrincess? Parisi: On behalf of the members of New United CARE I proudly
ThePrincess? Parisi: cast my vote for
ThePrincess? Parisi: Alexicon Kurka
Jamie Palisades: I’m delighted that Alex wishes to serve; I congratulate him and the RA, offer him my help and wish you the best. 🙂
Jamie Palisades claps
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right, congratulations 😀
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations alexicon, with 4 votes that makes you our next chancellor 🙂
Bromo Ivory claps
Arria Perreault: bravo Alex !
Justice Soothsayer: Congratulations!
Rose Springvale: applause
MT Lundquist: claps
Naftali Torok: woeovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Alexicon Kurka: thanks Jamie, everybody
Symo Kurka: claps
Naftali Torok: hoera for alex
Pip Torok: claps
Brian Livingston claps
Alexicon Kurka: I hope you will all keep so enthousiastic during the coming period
Alexicon Kurka: we all need us
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: thank you to everyone for coming to this meeting. our agenda is at an end and we are ready to adjourn
Patroklus Murakami: let’s meet at the same time next week in the Praetorium, colonia nova
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay for the CDS on Term #8 😉
Rose Springvale: congrats everyonw
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
The meeting closed at 13:10 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: Febraury 10, 2008

Summary:

1. The Commerce Commission Bill was passed as amended with MT Lundquist chosen as Chair. A number of other RA members and CDS citizens volunteered to work on the commission alongside MT.
2. The RA decided to ask the authors of the No Peeking Bill and the Voting Security Amendment to meet and discuss a way of reconciling the two motions in collaboration with the SC.
Transcript

Meeting on 2008-02-10
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
Sonja Strom: hi 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a fashionissue
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: there are notecards for today’s meeting in the notecard giver on the table (the wooden box)
Patroklus Murakami: please touch the recorder to indicate consent to the chat log being taken and published
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Bjerkel Eerie has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston: Ocober notecarrds?
Patroklus Murakami: October? shouldn’t be
Brian Livingston: Oh, I clickedo n the jug not the box
Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see 🙂
Beathan Vale: Pat — why isn’t my bill on the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami: what was your bill beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: cos he told me he does what he wants, use the remedy available beathan
Beathan Vale: to change RA procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: oops
Patroklus Murakami: i asked for agenda items to be submitted to me inworld by notecard, or by email by the due date as i’ve always done
Patroklus Murakami: those that were submitted to me are on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: did you send me an email/notecard? i thought it was only posted on the forums
Beathan Vale: Ok — it can wait — but I understood that proposal posted on the forum by the deadline also comply — I will add forum posting as a means of proposing legislation and send you an email including my bill along with that addition
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: so did i pat, i think you said
Patroklus Murakami: we encourage ppl to post bills on the forums so they can be discussed by everyone prior to meetings. but i need to have them by notecard or email to prepare the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: if i have to scour the forums for posts i’m likely to make mistakes and get ppl unnecessarily angry 🙂
Beathan Vale: Pat – I will try to chnge that and allow posting on the forum to be a perfectly appropriate manner to get something on the agenda — I think the LRA whoudl follow the forums closely and this will mandate that
ThePrincess? Parisi: i second
Patroklus Murakami: well, let’s debate that another time
Beathan Vale: Ok — next week
Patroklus Murakami: before we get on to the bills before us i have a couple of announcements. i tried to update the agenda but appear to have failed in that
ThePrincess? Parisi: i ididnt get jons bill
Patroklus Murakami: the first is to welcome (back) Leon Ash to the RA. Leon has agreed to take over as teh CSDF rep since Bjerkel has decided to step down
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve sent you a copy theprincess, so you should have it now 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: did jon take bj’s pleace
ThePrincess? Parisi: place
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i had it nvm
Patroklus Murakami: no, leon has taken bjerkel’s place
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thought leon did
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: is he going to be sworn in
Leon Ash: Thanks for the welcome back and should I swear at someone now?
Jon Seattle: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
ThePrincess? Parisi: swear at me leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: i love it
Patroklus Murakami: the second announcement is a request – could all RA members let Alexicon know what their availability is for the government question hour meetings?
Leon Ash: (*&?&&&*^^

&ST ThePrincess?
Patroklus Murakami: it will be a nightmare for him to organise but let’s try to make his life a little easier
ThePrincess? Parisi sticks our her tongue and leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: at him
Sonja Strom: ok Pat
MT Lundquist: k
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok we will
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure we swear ppl in leon, except at the inaugural meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: then he cant vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: its not fair
Patroklus Murakami: well, in every previous RA that i can recall new members have joined the RA as replacements and not been formally sworn in. justice, jon can you recall any precedent here?
Brian Livingston: I don’t believe we’ve sworn in replacement members in the past, so there is no real precident
Brian Livingston types too slow…
Justice Soothsayer: no, but I could do the honors if you woul dlike.
ThePrincess? Parisi: please justice
Beathan Vale: Leon will you undermine our constition — yes or no
Jon Seattle: We have never made the swearing a requriment as far as I know.
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i think we should since its leon and all
Beathan Vale: If the anser is “no, I move we sit Leon with no further process
Justice Soothsayer: Leon, repeat after me: I, Leon Ash, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Leon Ash: I, Leon Ash, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
MT Lundquist: claps
Patroklus Murakami claps
Justice Soothsayer: Congratulations.
Leon Ash: thanks
Sudane Erato: yay Leon! 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay!!!
Brian Livingston: Congrats
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 1. the commerce commission bill
Jon Seattle: Yea
Patroklus Murakami: this was one of the recommendations we put forward during the election campaign and we’d like to get work started on this as a priority. i’ll just say a few words then open up for discussion
Patroklus Murakami: the question of commerce in the CDS is a long one with a long history
ThePrincess? Parisi: excuse me
PMRobert Walpole: Cheers all
ThePrincess? Parisi: Who is we?
Patroklus Murakami: almost from the start, CDS citizens have been concerned with developing our community as a thriving place for commerce (among other things)
Patroklus Murakami: (we = the CSDF)
Beathan Vale: (we also = the SP)
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. that explains why his bill is first cindy
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: there have been a number of ideas proposed for how we might improve matters
Sudane Erato: Please let Pat speak!
Cindy Ecksol: just wondering, pat — there were three others announced before this one
Patroklus Murakami: cindy, theprincess. i’ve been very patient so far but would you please stop interrupting me?
Patroklus Murakami: i will be asking ppl who do the same to you to desist
Patroklus Murakami: so please do me the same honour
Patroklus Murakami: the aim of holding a commission is to get citizen input in a structured way, find some consensus and make recommendations for action (if these are felt to be needed)
Patroklus Murakami: now, would others like to comment or ask questions?
Sudane Erato: I’m all in favor of this commission… its a great idea
Beathan Vale: I had offered some proposed amendments
Beathan Vale: I want to offer those now again from the floor
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think its lovely
MT Lundquist: I ‘m happy with this
Beathan Vale: they are posted on the forum
ThePrincess? Parisi: long overdue .. in fact
Beathan Vale: I move to amend the bill as proposed
Patroklus Murakami: could you post them here beathan so we have the text in the record of the meeting?
Patroklus Murakami: it makes it clearer what the RA are voting for
Patroklus Murakami: (or against!)
Beathan Vale: I also like this proposal — but I am increasingly having second thoughts on setting fixed timelimits for commissions. Sometimes commissions are not able to complete their tasks within the time allotted, for no fault of the commissioners. However, these accidental and excusable failures have been manipulated for political effect in the past. Thus, I would change 5 to “The Chair of the Commission shall report to the RA on March 9 and shall inform the RA of the status of the commission’s work, make recommendations based on that work, and provide, if possible, a draft final report of conclusions the commission has reached. At that time, the RA shall either accept the final report and dissolve the commission; send the report back to the commission with recommendations and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted or resubmitted; or extend the term of service for the commission and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted.” I would also add an!
additional charge to section 3.
Brian Livingston: Seconded
Beathan Vale: I would also add an additional charge to section 3. “Determine the cost of activities recommended by the commission and provide budget recommendations to the RA and budget priorities to the RA for use in implementing the commission’s recommendations.”
Sonja Strom: sorry, this will take me some time to read
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take a couple of minutes to consider
ThePrincess? Parisi: i move we wait til next time
ThePrincess? Parisi: sonja needs time toread
Beathan Vale: I think this bill is time sensitive — as it is a commission — if we wait we will need to change the timeling
Beathan Vale: timeline even
Patroklus Murakami: wb leon
Leon Ash: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: did you get beathan’s amendement leon?
ThePrincess? Parisi: why didnt we have this before this session .. i ask for a seven day if we vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: for everyone here
Jon Seattle hands Leon another ISP 🙂
Beathan Vale: it was all on the forums
Leon Ash: No, could you please resend ammendment
Brian Livingston: And it is pretty common for propsoed ammendments to bills to be made on the floor
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could you repost?
Patroklus Murakami: for leon’s benefit?
Beathan Vale: I would change 5 to “The Chair of the Commission shall report to the RA on March 9 and shall inform the RA of the status of the commission’s work, make recommendations based on that work, and provide, if possible, a draft final report of conclusions the commission has reached. At that time, the RA shall either accept the final report and dissolve the commission; send the report back to the commission with recommendations and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted or resubmitted; or extend the term of service for the commission and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted.” I would also add an additional charge to section 3. “Determine the cost of activities recommended by the commission and provide budget recommendations to the RA and budget priorities to the RA for use in implementing the commission’s recommendations.”
Patroklus Murakami: any views on beathan’s amendment?
Symo Kurka: Sounds reasonable to me
Leon Ash: Thank you Beathan and as to views. It seems reasonable
Sudane Erato: it seems reasonable to me
Brian Livingston: I’m ok with it
ThePrincess? Parisi: fine
MT Lundquist: the amendment seems ok to me
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy with it too so i’ll take is as a friendly amendment
Patroklus Murakami: *it as
Brian Livingston: Allows the comission a little more leeway in regards to fulfilling their andate
Sonja Strom: ok, i am caught up with the chat now – sorry, it takes me some time to follow.
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not sure about the ammendment though
Jon Seattle: Yes, seems like a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: well, the amendment has been accepted as a friendly so it’s now part of the bill
Patroklus Murakami: now, we need a chair 🙂 any volunteers?
MT Lundquist: me
Beathan Vale: secon MT
Patroklus Murakami: ty MT. are there any other volunteers from the RA members?
Beathan Vale: I’ll participate — but not chair
Patroklus Murakami: we have had two co-chairs in the past which worked quite well i recall (justice may feel differently :))
Sonja Strom: I might participate, but do not want to chair
Beathan Vale: no — I prefer single chair
MT Lundquist: i’ll be happy to chair
MT Lundquist: on my own
MT Lundquist: i have 3 shops in CDS
Patroklus Murakami: i think that means we have MT as the chair and at least two RA members willing to serve on the commission
Beathan Vale: two chairs might be useful in cases on controversy to prevent any side from feeling excluded from the outset –b ut this a parctical mattter, not one of controversy
ThePrincess? Parisi: he bought another today
Sonja Strom: I think the commission is a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: i’m calling an end to the discussion on this item.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move to the votes
Beathan Vale: I move for passage of bill as amended
Patroklus Murakami: first vote: are we ready to vote on the amended bill? (amended with beathan’s text and MT as chair). please say ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
MT Lundquist: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: and secondly, are you in favour of the amended bill? again, ‘aye’ or ‘nay’ will do
Beathan Vale: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations MT 🙂
MT Lundquist: ty
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Sonja Strom: thank you MT for doing it!
Sudane Erato: MT, I have also volunteered
ThePrincess? Parisi: great!
Sonja Strom: yay!
Sudane Erato: so please let me know
MT Lundquist: ok ty sudane
Patroklus Murakami: i think you’ll have lots of volunteers to help
Brian Livingston: Samew here MT, as a business owner andd planner, I hope to be able to proide some input 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: which is good
ThePrincess? Parisi: ql3
Patroklus Murakami: now, item 2. the No Peeking Bill. ThePrincess?, would you like to introduce this?
MT Lundquist: ty brian
Beathan Vale: As I posted on the forum “I support the goals of these bill and don’t mind the text or approach of either bill (provided my suggested changes are incorporated). However, both bills are on the same subject matter, but take somewhat different and incompatible approaches. Thus, I think it is unwise to pass both bills. However, I don’t really want to start the current session of the RA with a partisan squabble and power play between NuCARE and the CSDF. What I would prefer to do is to try to merge the proposals into a single bill with multiparty support. I think that, because these bills are on a subject that will not matter until the next election — we have plenty of time to try to craft a compromise using the text and goals of these bills. I would suggest a working session on these bills rather than a vote tomorrow.” Thus, I move to continue these bills for one week, during which week the proponents of the bills should meet together and meet with the SC to try to craf!
t a combined bill.
ThePrincess? Parisi: our chancellor will also be very interested im sure
Sonja Strom: I am a business owner too, but not in the CDS.
Patroklus Murakami: ThePrincess? has the floor
ThePrincess? Parisi: im fine either way ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh im sorry.. MT will present that bill
Patroklus Murakami: ok 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: and no we dont want to merge now
Jon Seattle: As I commented in the forum, this is a citizen’s bill at the moment and not a CSDF bill. And I would recommend we table it until we can have a working session.
MT Lundquist: we have an issue with a part of the 3 item
MT Lundquist: bill
MT Lundquist: 3rd
MT Lundquist: i agree that the two bills cover the same ground
Jon Seattle: MT this one: 3. Insure that software used in the election implements the rules for eligibility, voting, and counting votes as described in the constitution.
Jon Seattle: ?
MT Lundquist: no
MT Lundquist: agenda item 3
Jon Seattle: Ah nods.
MT Lundquist: paragraph item 2
Jon Seattle: Well, lets decide on the working session or not first?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we dont like point two jon
Beathan Vale: I move to send both bills to a working session prior to vote
Jon Seattle: I support that.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take beathan’s proposal and consider that first
ThePrincess? Parisi: and …….for the record the citizen is a ver y strong CDSF supporter very ..past president
ThePrincess? Parisi: if not current
Beathan Vale: it’s a while until the next election — so we should not feel rushed here
ThePrincess? Parisi: no we shouldnt
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, what do you mean by a ‘working session’?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets keep it on the forum for a while
ThePrincess? Parisi: let it evolve
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have six months
Beathan Vale: I want the proponents of the bill to meet with each other and the SC to see if we can merge the bills into a mutually agreeable compromise
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need a new sim before the next election too
MT Lundquist: thats fine with me
Jon Seattle: Pat, I object to Princess’s statement in this context. She should not be declaring another citizen’s political affiliations nor does she have special knowledge of the status of this bill.
Sudane Erato: ????
Beathan Vale: if any secton can’t be mutually agreed — it can be taken out for separate consideration as an amendement
Sudane Erato: a new sim??!!
Patroklus Murakami: let’s not get distracted
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have new citizens
Beathan Vale: I also agree to work with the proponents of these bills, as I have proposed amendements
Patroklus Murakami: so enough witht the new sim and accusations about ppl’s political affiliation and it’s significance
ThePrincess? Parisi: im jst stating a fact not an assumption jon
Beathan Vale: much of the voting controversy has hinged on the possibility that we acted with undue haste and less than full deliberation last time — let’s not do so again
Brian Livingston: Agreed
ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed beathan
Patroklus Murakami: that’s enough!
Jon Seattle: agreed
MT Lundquist: as i said i’m happy to do that
Patroklus Murakami: i call the discussion to an end
Patroklus Murakami: let’s vote on beathan’s motion
ThePrincess? Parisi: fair enough
Patroklus Murakami: pls scroll back if it got lost. then i need to hear ‘aye’ or ‘nay’ from the RA members
Beathan Vale: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Patroklus Murakami: thank you everyone 🙂
Leon Ash votes aye
Jon Seattle: Thank you
Patroklus Murakami: that concludes the business for today. i propose we adjourn
Beathan Vale: To the Ball!
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, to the ball!
ThePrincess? Parisi: since we are here can i bring up something
Jon Seattle: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: the next sim.. doe s everyone one want that to go forward as quick as possible?
Patroklus Murakami: ThePrincess?, we have ended the business for today
Leon Ash: 🙁 Apologies. I can’t attend the ball. I ate the pumpkin 😉
Patroklus Murakami: we can discuss that after the meeting has finished
MT Lundquist: no you only prroposed
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. i didnt know i cant talk
MT Lundquist: ending it
ThePrincess? Parisi: we didnt aadjourn
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat why cant we talk about that? im confused
Patroklus Murakami: i call the vote on adjournment
ThePrincess? Parisi: NO
Patroklus Murakami: aye or nay please
ThePrincess? Parisi: NAY
MT Lundquist: nay
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Leon Ash: Night everyone 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye leon
Feminist Expedition: nay 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: bye leon 🙂
Jon Seattle: lol, FE
Brian Livingston: aye
Sonja Strom: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you sonja
Beathan Vale: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
Beathan Vale: if we have something left for the good of the order, let’s hear it — but briefly please 😉
Patroklus Murakami: why are you voting against adjournment when there is no business on the table?
Beathan Vale: I have my dancing shoes on
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just wanted to ask everyone
Patroklus Murakami: if you wanted to raise ‘new sim’ submit an agenda item
ThePrincess? Parisi: what they think about the nextt sim
Patroklus Murakami: we don’t put items on the agenda in the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just wanna ask first so its just easy in the next session and i knwo what they think
Patroklus Murakami: so this discussion is out of order
ThePrincess? Parisi: we will submit a any other business item for short meetings
Sonja Strom: according to parliamentary rules?
Patroklus Murakami: happy to chat after the meeting. but this is out of order
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok thank you pat
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think that it is right and proper to have discussions about policies as well as about proposals
MT Lundquist: we just had a vote to keep the meeting open for this Pat
Beathan Vale: and such discussions should be of record
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we have to not adjourn but we cant talk
ThePrincess? Parisi: im confused
MT Lundquist: are you going against the vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok im sorry
Cindy Ecksol: Pat, it IS customary in meetings for the chair to ask if there is any other new business
ThePrincess? Parisi: but i dont understand why you didnt have addioanal business as an item
Patroklus Murakami: cindy, it is customary when ‘any other business’ is an item on the agenda. but it isn’t here
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you sonja.. why are making this difficult pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: you made a mistake pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that what happened?
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry can you put that on fromnow on please
ThePrincess? Parisi: for every session
Beathan Vale: My proposal will add that
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
MT Lundquist: sensible
ThePrincess? Parisi: i wanted to just talk about the new sim?
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that so bad or is it true cdsf is going to try to stall it
ThePrincess? Parisi: i heard you were, now i wonder for sure
Patroklus Murakami: i think you shouldn’t listen to rumours 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: or start them
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 oh well do you want the next sim? whats your view
ThePrincess? Parisi: its your text, pat, i have the chat
Patroklus Murakami: is this the point of your intervention? to make pot shots at the CSDF
ThePrincess? Parisi: i heard it from you
Patroklus Murakami: i did not say that
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry, so pat do you want to support getting the next sim out
Patroklus Murakami: i’m getting tired of these unsubstantiated allegations
ThePrincess? Parisi: i misunderstood then can you explain what you meant when you told me
ThePrincess? Parisi: that we shouldnt go for a new sim soon
Patroklus Murakami: it is very wearing having to deal with this kind of accusation
ThePrincess? Parisi: cos we had other things to do in the RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: im just trying to unederstand what you ment then
Patroklus Murakami: you shouldn’t twist other ppls words and use the RA as an arena for making these accusations
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not im asking you what you meant
ThePrincess? Parisi: do you intend to support a new sim asap
Patroklus Murakami: so, the point of you raising this is to grill me about a private conversation that you haven’t understood properly?
Beathan Vale: Sir — you will either die on the gallows or of the pox; sir, that depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress!
ThePrincess? Parisi: no i wanted everyone to talk about it
ThePrincess? Parisi: we would have been done by now
Beathan Vale: This does not seem that productive, I move to end debate
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye beathan
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan
PMRobert Walpole: excuse me for interrupting
PMRobert Walpole: i am new here
Brian Livingston: Aye, thanks
Patroklus Murakami: aye, adjourn
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: i need to get dressed
MT Lundquist: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
PMRobert Walpole: ah
Sonja Strom: Robert?
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
The meeting closed at 12:59 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 17, 2008

Summary

1. The RA agreed to set up a Code Re-organisation Committee with Brian Livingston as Chair. The purpose of the Committee is to clean up the CDS Code of Laws by reorganizing or repealing old and obsolete laws in batches.
2. The RA passed the “In-theme” Expansion Enablement Act. (Ayes – Beathan, Brian, MT, ThePrincess, Patroklus. Sonja and Leon will have the chance to register their votes in the 7 days following the meeting).
3. The RA agreed to form a committee, with Beathan Vale as Chair, to consider the various suggestions being put forward to regulate the conduct of CDS elections.
4. The RA heard a report back from MT Lundquist on the first meeting of the Commerce Commission.
5. Beathan agreed to consult people on the ‘RA Process Bill’ and report back to the RA next week.
Transcript

Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: the agenda does NOT have other business
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i will restate my request for a n agenda too
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said you would do that
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: that RA procedure had not passed yet
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t believe i agreed to that theprincess
ThePrincess? Parisi: Pat, please can for the record we have agendas before the meetings no later than fridaays.. i need to have time to read..and KNOW what is on the agend. thank you very much.
Patroklus Murakami: in fact, i’ve made my opposition to ‘any other business’ items pretty clear
ThePrincess? Parisi: And please sir, kindly can you always have any other business, so we have some control too of bringing things up.
MT Lundquist: well i want an aob on each agenda pat
MT Lundquist: i made that clear
Patroklus Murakami: they’re often misused as ‘amush’ items, like last week
Patroklus Murakami: *ambush
ThePrincess? Parisi: your power is misused sir
Patroklus Murakami: did you have an item of any other business you wanted to raise today?
Brian Livingston kinds likes the word ‘amush’ and might start usign it in everyday conversations….
ThePrincess? Parisi: i might at th end
Beathan Vale:

sigh

I picked the wrong day to stop drinking coffee
Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps you could let us know now what it would be?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol beathan
MT Lundquist: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi passes beathans a starbucks card
MT Lundquist: i move to vary the order of todays agenda
MT Lundquist: i would like to see beathans iten first
MT Lundquist: item
ThePrincess? Parisi: second
Beathan Vale: no — I was up to 2 pots per day — so I took this weekend to go through withdrawal
Beathan Vale: second
Patroklus Murakami: sorry MT but that is not permitted
ThePrincess? Parisi: tylenol helps
ThePrincess? Parisi: third then
Beathan Vale: wait — which of my items?
MT Lundquist: the ra process bill
Beathan Vale: kk
Leon Ash: I’m really sorry everyone, but I can’t be asked to attend a ‘meeting’ where the first 15 minutes has delivered nothing but aggrevations.
Beathan Vale: kk — second — but even if it passes, I don’t think it can control this meeting
Leon Ash: There seems to be no common decency left and I don’t need to be here.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not very pleasant, is it?
Leon Ash: night all
Patroklus Murakami: bye leon 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
Patroklus Murakami: happy now?
MT Lundquist: what asking for a change to the agenda order
Patroklus Murakami: MT, can i refer you to the RA meeting procedures?
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll find the link in a second
Beathan Vale: that was uncalled for – frankly, if Leon’s skin is so thin, he should reconsider his service
Patroklus Murakami: leon’s not the only one to have noted the tone set by RA members in meetings so far…
Patroklus Murakami: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-index.php?page=RA+Meeting+Procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: this is the second meeting
Patroklus Murakami: is the link you need MT
Beathan Vale: yes — I also note the tone – but a noisy withdrawal is not helpful
MT Lundquist: i shall study it
Patroklus Murakami: this is the third. the tone went downhill at the second
ThePrincess? Parisi: i aplogize
ThePrincess? Parisi: apologize then
Patroklus Murakami: ty
Danton Sideways: Can anyone tell me if I touched the recorder?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i need the agenda prior to meetings as a personal thing pat
Danton Sideways: There are too many things on the table
Patroklus Murakami: if u touch it again danton it will tell if you signed in already
Danton Sideways: Where is it?
Patroklus Murakami: can we move to the first item now?
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: it has ‘recorder on’ above it in white text danton 🙂
Beathan Vale: we have a motion to reorder the agenda
Brian Livingston: The way I read the RA procedures, the only way members can modify the agenda is to issue a petition to add an item to the next meeting’s agenda if the item ahs been withheld by the LRA.
Beathan Vale: seconded and proper — let’s vote on the motion
Patroklus Murakami: your motion is out of order. pls read the RA meeting procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
Patroklus Murakami: “The Leader of the RA (LRA) will determine the agenda for each meeting, and publish it on a notecard before each meeting. It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will make the final determination. If the membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting. The LRA at all times determines the order of the agenda.”
Beathan Vale:

sigjh

this is why we need new procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: well you dont publish before the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: puting in a boz x is not publishing
ThePrincess? Parisi: and publish it on a notecard before each meeting
Patroklus Murakami: aah but i did. it was put in the box before the meeting started 🙂 but i will try to publish it on the forums as you requested. can we move on now?
ThePrincess? Parisi: you must be kidding it was after noon
ThePrincess? Parisi: noon is the start of the meeting
Bromo Ivory snickers
ThePrincess? Parisi: and my gosh are you kidding
ThePrincess? Parisi: you are a political griefer
ThePrincess? Parisi: before is not as the meeting stsarts
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, i have followed the same procedures for these meetings for over six months and the same ones that claude enacted for the year and a half before
Patroklus Murakami: your insult ‘political griefer’ is uncalled for and rude
ThePrincess? Parisi: at least i said mine in open
Beathan Vale: also — I note that determining the order of the agenda is different from procedual motions to adjust the agenda — and such a motion should be proper
Patroklus Murakami: for the third time, can we move on to the business of the meeting? or are you going to disrupt the whole meeting and guarantee that nothing is achieved?
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry to call you that, but it just seems you are being unreasonalble
Patroklus Murakami: i am, frankly, shocked by the irresponsible behaviour displated today. don’t you want to make progress on a new sim? or would you rather bicker all day?
Patroklus Murakami: *displayed even
MT Lundquist: we all want to progress pat
Patroklus Murakami: item 1. code reorganisation
Danton Sideways: I am I allowed to speak as member of the audience?
Bromo Ivory notes that the whole RA is in quite a mood and no one member ought to be pointing fingers
Patroklus Murakami: danton, it might help to save it til later 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we are just about to discuss an agenda item at long last!
Danton Sideways: Ok I’ll say it later
Patroklus Murakami: code reorganisation was raised by the csdf and simplicity in the last election. we have looked at this before but not achieved a conclusion
Patroklus Murakami: this bill aims to complete the work
Patroklus Murakami: brian, you had some comments about this
Patroklus Murakami: i think you were questioning whether we needed to add another bill to our code in order to simplify what we have
Patroklus Murakami: which is a very good point1
Patroklus Murakami: !
Patroklus Murakami: would you care to come in? and then i’ll open up the item for discussion
Jon Seattle: Perhaps the bill count self-distruct after a certain time.
Brian Livingston: Well, simply put, my thought is that a workign group could be extablished that would accomplish the same thing as thsi bill without the need for mroe legislation…
Lincoln Beck: hello
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi lincoln
Brian Livingston: The RA procedures actually permit the LRA to form a committee without a bill and set a mandate for suc ha group, if I read the procedures correctly
ThePrincess? Parisi: makes sense to me
Patroklus Murakami: hi lincoln
Patroklus Murakami: that’s correct brian
Patroklus Murakami: it’s how i propose we handle items 3 and 4
Patroklus Murakami: other comments?
Bromo Ivory notes that with ROberts Rules Pat would have a much easier time controlling the RA agenda and meeting
Brian Livingston: Again, I am 100% behind code roerganization. It’s bee na centerpiece of SP policy and I would love to help out wherever I can. I’m jsut for doing this as simply as possible, asnd wif we have the mechanism in placefor the LRA to establish a comittee, I say let’s do it and move on?
Patroklus Murakami: brian, i think you were also suggesting how we might do this regularly so we don’t have a build up of extinct laws?
Beathan Vale: second
Brian Livingston: Well, that too, if the floor is still open…
ThePrincess? Parisi: please i dont understand
Brian Livingston: If nto I’ll post in the forums
Patroklus Murakami: let’s try to clear up any confusion
Patroklus Murakami: what didn’t you understand the princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: the crb you want to combine and 4?
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that what you meant?
Patroklus Murakami: oh no
ThePrincess? Parisi: and regularly means how long
ThePrincess? Parisi: often
Patroklus Murakami: we’re just looking at item 1
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is and 4 you said
Patroklus Murakami: well, brian pointed out that the LRA can set up a committee at any time (according to the RA procedures)
Patroklus Murakami: so we don’t really need a bill to establish a code reorganisation committeee
Patroklus Murakami: i said i’d like to adopt the same approach for items 3 and 4
Beathan Vale: brb
ThePrincess? Parisi: so why is it on the agenda
Jon Seattle: … though as I understand that it is a committee of the RA (and has no formal place for non-RA members)(.
Patroklus Murakami: but, don’t worry. agreeing to this on item 1 does not affect the others
Brian Livingston: point made Jon
Patroklus Murakami: “The LRA can create (or propose for creation) committees of members for the purpose of study and information gathering on proposed topics (bills, agenda items of all sorts). Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions. Committee members can be non-members of the RA. Each topic that a committe receives for attention must be brought back to the RA for action, even if the recommendation is to drop it. ”
Brian Livingston: Wait…
Brian Livingston: 4) Committees. The LRA can create (or propose for creation) committees of members for the purpose of study and information gathering on proposed topics (bills, agenda items of all sorts). Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions. Committee members can be non-members of the RA. Each topic that a committe receives for attention must be brought back to the RA for action, even if the recommendation is to drop it.
MT Lundquist: do you mean items 3 and 4 on the first bill pat
Jon Seattle: Ah, good.
Patroklus Murakami: so non-members *can* join the committee 🙂
Bromo Ivory hopes Pat doesn’t create huge bureaucracies that he was afraid of last term
MT Lundquist: or agenda items 3 and 4
Brian Livingston is a few seocnds behind today
ThePrincess? Parisi: when you say item one do you mean the whole bill or the number one on the bil
Beathan Vale: bib
Patroklus Murakami: no MT, agenda items 3 and 4
ThePrincess? Parisi: sheesh
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Beathan Vale: As we have seen already in this session — item 4 is too important to delay in committee
MT Lundquist: yes i agree with Beathan
Beathan Vale: I thought a committee would be OK — but the LRA convinced me othewise this morning
ThePrincess? Parisi: well do we tqlk now about what you said about agenda items and 4
ThePrincess? Parisi: as far as CR bill.. i think its fine
MT Lundquist: can we deal with the agenda items in their order please pat as you indicated earlier we should do that
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, the point of putting item 4 to a committee is so we could consider it properly. i don’t think that trying to ram it through with minimal discussion is really the best way forward
ThePrincess? Parisi: why are we talking about agenda item 4 now pat
Patroklus Murakami: and, yes MT. let’s retain our focus on item 1
MT Lundquist: Pat you are taking items out of order
ThePrincess? Parisi: see i am confused enough
ThePrincess? Parisi: agenda item one i think is good
Patroklus Murakami: ok. i’d like to call the discussion on item 1 to a close and move to a vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: second
Beathan Vale: I move that we pass agenda item 1 as a informal establishment of a committee rather than as a permanent standing statute
Brian Livingston: Vote on teh bill or creation of committee sans bill?
ThePrincess? Parisi: why beathan
ThePrincess? Parisi: sans sense
Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw the bill
Beathan Vale: clutter — it would be ironic to create the very clutter this bill is supposed to fix
ThePrincess? Parisi: can you withdraw a bill after its on the floor
Brian Livingston: I’ll be the first to admit I was draftign ab ill on thsi topic until recently, but when I noticed that clause in the RA procedures, it’s a much simpler way of accomplishign the same end goal.
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to propose that we create a committee with the task of reorganising our code of laws along the lines of the bill
Beathan Vale: second
Brian Livingston cannot type today :/
Patroklus Murakami: and that brian chairs the committee
Patroklus Murakami: ty beatha
Beathan Vale: second second
Patroklus Murakami: *beathan even
Patroklus Murakami: could i have your votes please?
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aya
Brian Livingston: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: *aye
Patroklus Murakami: the motion is carried
Patroklus Murakami: item 2
Patroklus Murakami: we have two bills before us on expansion. theprincess and i have both posted ours on the forums
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, would you like to introduce your bill first?
ThePrincess? Parisi: it is a NuCARE bill and MT will present it
Patroklus Murakami: MT, after you
MT Lundquist: we bleive that adopting our bill will lead to a more rapid development of the next sim
MT Lundquist: we believe that work of developing by the guild will be honoured
MT Lundquist: that working things through in parallel will asiist this
MT Lundquist: we also wish to combine the bills as they are about the same objective
MT Lundquist: speed is paramount
MT Lundquist: as we note that CDSF aim for 18 sims by 2010
MT Lundquist: thats one evry 2 months
MT Lundquist: by my count
MT Lundquist: ty
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not quite how we planned to do it, but that’s a separate point
Patroklus Murakami: i had a question on the forums that hasn’t been answered, could you respond now? i’ll cut and paste
Beathan Vale: why does the NuCARE bill exclude lot layout from the planning?
Patroklus Murakami: “I’m puzzled about the requirement to commission topography etc but not plot divisions etc. What’s the rationale for that? In my post about streamlining ‘in theme’ expansion here I suggested that both these tasks (and some others) should take place at the same time in Phase I. The reason for this is so that we have a reasonably firm plan on which to do essential market research and check that there is sufficient demand to justify the expansion. No one’s raised any objections to that in the thread. Is there a reason why we shouldn’t do this all one go at the start of the process? It would seem to make sense if we are to do this as efficiently as possible.”
Bromo Ivory: Would it make sense to have plots defined?
Patroklus Murakami: i.e. ‘what beathan said’ 🙂
Beathan Vale: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: we are open to the lot layout as long as it has a lot of lots
Bromo Ivory: I know the nuCARE had a platform favoring smaller lots
MT Lundquist: we have a general proposal in terms of plots in our manifesto
Jon Seattle: Bromo, the plots do influence the organization of the topographic design and visa versa
Bromo Ivory: And CSDF favors lots of SIMs
MT Lundquist: plots of 512 to maximise citizen take up
ThePrincess? Parisi: true
Bromo Ivory: So I don’t see a large conflict
ThePrincess? Parisi: moons plans are fine
MT Lundquist: new citizen
MT Lundquist: the detailposituion is we believe a later item
Patroklus Murakami: jon has a very valid point there, topography can’t be divorced from plot sizes etc. they influence each other
Bromo Ivory: This is true
ThePrincess? Parisi: flat is good
Bromo Ivory: But we have a lot of elevation
Patroklus Murakami: brb
Bromo Ivory: And the mountainsides will have to be double prim or so to have rational lots
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok that can be done quickly
Beathan Vale: Can we then add language tot he CSDF bill that says “the next two sims will aim as expanding citizenship my maximizing the number of small and medium residential lots”
Bromo Ivory likes that
Beathan Vale: or maybe “small and medium reisidential and commercial lots”
ThePrincess? Parisi likes that too
Brian Livingston: Hmm… I would think that would be in specific intructions to the New Guild on sim requirementes for each project, not in the main bill outlining the procedure
MT Lundquist: that would help maximise citizen take up
ThePrincess? Parisi: how do we prevent the committees stalling the sims development
Patroklus Murakami: well, the four phase outline we’ve proposed makes it clear who does what at each stage of the process. there are measures there to ensure that logjams are unblocked
Patroklus Murakami: would it help if I outlined the rationale behind our bill at this point?
Patroklus Murakami is suffering from chat lag 🙂
MT Lundquist: we would would like to see Beathans statement added
MT Lundquist: and an anti logjam provision
MT Lundquist: we want the sim to move quickly
Patroklus Murakami: to our bill? or yours?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yours
MT Lundquist: to yours
MT Lundquist: we are concerned that it is not held up in committee
Beathan Vale: or — as a policy goal — could we state as a policy that we want to expand citizenship lots and let the guild work it out — following specific instructions from us
ThePrincess? Parisi: we want cooperation and progess
Beathan Vale: I think that one concern is that we have enough public land already —
MT Lundquist: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: <--------nods Beathan Vale: (I'm not sure that we have neough parkland — and I would like to see an Opera house and a sports stadium) Patroklus Murakami: well, i think we need to discuss what the aims of the next expansion are. but that's a discussion to have after passing a framework Patroklus Murakami: ours is a framework bill Brian Livingston: FWIW, this will neccessitate a change to the New Guild's charter I would assume, as the charter already specifies the procedure for sim development Beathan Vale: PAt — I tend to agree Brian Livingston: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1091 Patroklus Murakami: so i don't accept the amendment. this is a framework bill. we should discuss the aims for the next sim separately in my opinion ThePrincess? Parisi: what you dont like the plan of the guild? MT Lundquist: in which case we cant withdraw our bill ThePrincess? Parisi: they already did the work, please explain Brian Livingston: I agree with Pat re: the amendment Beathan Vale: we will need to pass a specific bill instructing the Guild to plan and build a sim — and we can put the details of what kind of sim it shoudl be in that bill Jon Seattle: Brian is right about the NGuild charter, but it is a minor adjustment. The procedure in the charter was intended for new themes only. It should not be difficult to allow for same-theme development. Patroklus Murakami: i'd like to introduce our bill formally, could i have the floor for a few minutes? Brian Livingston: Ok, thanks Jon 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: it's clear that many of us agree we should expand in the next six months Patroklus Murakami: and the quickest way we can do that is by expanding our existing themes (rather than by holding a full public contest for a new one) Patroklus Murakami: in doing that we need to learn the lessons from the past two expansions Patroklus Murakami: the 'in-theme' expansion bill has been thought through on the basis of recent experience and the CN expansion Patroklus Murakami: it's a framework bill Patroklus Murakami: it sets out who has to do what at which points in the process Patroklus Murakami: who is responsible for certain decisions Patroklus Murakami: and who is responsible for breaking logjams Patroklus Murakami: if we pass this we can quickly move on to discuss what our priorities for the next sim will be Patroklus Murakami: and agree guidance for the New Guild (as developers) about plot sizes, overall objectives etc Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have any questions or comments about it? i'd be very happy to answer/consider them Patroklus Murakami: either i've stunned you into silence or i've been logged out 🙂 ThePrincess? Parisi: can we add beathans ThePrincess? Parisi: items Beathan Vale: I withdraw my amendment based on your explanation that such considerations are best submitted separately ThePrincess? Parisi: to your bill Patroklus Murakami: and have been typing to thin air for a few minutes 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan Patroklus Murakami: ok, let's move to the vote. i propose to take the 'in-theme' expansion enablement bill first and then the Colonia Nova Urban Development Bill Beathan Vale: second Brian Livingston: Oh, quick question regardign hte nucare bill Brian Livingston: nm Patroklus Murakami: go on brian Patroklus Murakami: (btw we will be having a 7-day vote on all items today) MT Lundquist: we will withdraw our bill Patroklus Murakami: ty MT Brian Livingston: It was really in the NM, it's moot Patroklus Murakami: so, on the 'in-theme' expansion enablement bill, could i have your votes please? MT Lundquist: aye Patroklus Murakami votes aye Beathan Vale: aye ThePrincess? Parisi: YIPPIE AYE Brian Livingston: aye ThePrincess? Parisi: KI O Danton Sideways: Applause Bromo Ivory is glad Princess didn't vote "Yuppie Aye" Patroklus Murakami: that passes, but leon and sonja will have their chance to vote over the next seven days ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL Danton Sideways: Congratulations everyone. Gotta go. ThePrincess? Parisi: bye danton Jon Seattle: Bye Danton Patroklus Murakami: bye danton, ty for coming Bromo Ivory is ahppy and is hopeful CS can grow larger than Caledon! Brian Livingston waves to Danton Alexicon Kurka: congrats all of you that you settled so easily on this important matter ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you alexicon. party at two on the docks wihen you melt the snow ThePrincess? Parisi: ooo Patroklus Murakami: we have a number of decisions to make in regard to phase I. I suggest we do some of that on the forums over the next week but, does anyone present have things they want to say? i'll post the criteria from the bill: Patroklus Murakami: (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory. MT Lundquist: hi sonja Patroklus Murakami: hi sonja:) glad you could make it Sonja Strom: hi - sorry I've been trying to connect for almost 2 hours. Brian Livingston: FWIW, I would love to see an opera house in the CDs at some point. Maybe not this next sim but eventually 🙂 Jon Seattle: Hi Sonja 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: oh no Brian Livingston: Ack! Sonja Strom: I ended up driving to a different town! ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed beathan ThePrincess? Parisi: wow.. i mean brian, and thanks sonja, thats dedication ThePrincess? Parisi: can she still vote? Patroklus Murakami: well, if sonja wants to. i'll fill you in Patroklus Murakami: we just passed the 'in-theme' expansion enablement bill (notecards are in the box on the table) Patroklus Murakami: it passed 5-0 but, as leon requested a 7-day vote you may cast your vote now or over the next 7 days Patroklus Murakami: no pressure 🙂 Sonja Strom: OK. Patroklus Murakami: we were just about to have a preliminary discussion on the criteria for sim 4 Sonja Strom: But if I voted no it would still pass... Patroklus Murakami: yes, it would ThePrincess? Parisi: we all voted yes sonja Sonja Strom: I will wait to cast my vote. Sonja Strom: May I have the bill on a notecard? ThePrincess? Parisi: good girl Patroklus Murakami: ok, now i've reread my meeting procedures i know that you may do so! Patroklus Murakami: notecards for all items are in the box on the table Sonja Strom: thanks Patroklus Murakami: so, thoughts on the new sim? brian has lobbied for an opera house. i strongly support that Sonja Strom: OK, got them. Patroklus Murakami: i wonder if we might also consider relocating the MoCA? it looks v out of place in downtown NFS Sonja Strom: I agree with that - I love the museum, but another place for it could look better. Brian Livingston would lobby for a large eucalyptus tree in the center of the sim but thinks that might be a stretch :p Bromo Ivory: lol Sonja Strom: Visitors comment on that too. Patroklus Murakami: nice try, brian MT Lundquist: lol Brian Livingston: Perhaps an arts district in a future sim? That biegn said, it may draw visitors to one sim and cause less trafic to go to NFS? Patroklus Murakami: i was making some machinima in NFS today and it really struck me how much it stands out ThePrincess? Parisi: visitors begat visitors.. and well guided tour them everywhere if we get them MT Lundquist: we are keen to maximise the new citizen count with the new sim Bromo Ivory: In a lot of ways it is a modernization in the place, but it is in stark contrast to the theme MT Lundquist: as citizens are what democracy is about ThePrincess? Parisi: there is a thing in your bill about hold ing new land for citizens ThePrincess? Parisi: i think you mean noncitizens first dont you MT Lundquist: we support a more residential feel to the next sim ThePrincess? Parisi: for trhe new sim? is that a typeo ThePrincess? Parisi: i guess im late asking that Patroklus Murakami: say again theprincess? which bit? ThePrincess? Parisi: the sim.. ThePrincess? Parisi: new sim.. Bromo Ivory: She was talking about having a hold back for new citizens? ThePrincess? Parisi: are you holding the land sales first for new citizens not old ones right like AM Brian Livingston: I actually sorta like the MoCA where it is for its contrast. It makes NFS not seem like a fully historical sim but an organic place to live ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan wants new ones ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed brian Bromo Ivory agreeswith Brian, but maybe a MoCA II Patroklus Murakami: aah, we've always offered land in new sims to current residents first. and the bill reflects that ThePrincess? Parisi: thats contradictory to your explanation of the bill Sonja Strom: Maybe we could have a couple of other more modern structures in Neufreistadt, so it is not alone in having such a style. Beathan Vale: Pat — I think we should change that — but let's not sell lots before they're built Bromo Ivory: Well its passed, but we can pass an amendmeent to the bill Sonja Strom: There is the southern area of the city that has to be redeveloped. ThePrincess? Parisi: the point is that we expand citizen base Beathan Vale: we won't be selling lots for a while — we can always revisit the sales plan later Patroklus Murakami: sigh i don't think it is theprincess. but we can discuss that at a later date. we don't have to offer *all* the new sim to existing citizens ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. MT Lundquist: yes perhaps we do that ThePrincess? Parisi: for a few weeks Sonja Strom: If it is more small properties that are wanted, if the museum were moved it would allow residential properties on that land. Jon Seattle: I should explain that in the past we have been more concerned about getting people to buy the new plots. I think it is less of a worry now. ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ThePrincess? Parisi: no we are out of land now ThePrincess? Parisi: i show land at CDS weekly ThePrincess? Parisi: twice this week i had ppl without land to buy wanting land Patroklus Murakami: so, does nucare want the whole sim to be 512 lots? how many? Sonja Strom: There are a couple of pieces of land available now, ThePrincess? Parisi: no we dont want all 512 necessarilly Sonja Strom: and that is without developing the south area of NFS, ThePrincess? Parisi: 512 and 1024 is good Sonja Strom: which still has not been done. Bromo Ivory: Pat, the nuCARE manifesto was talking about emphasizing smaller plots to encourage new citizens MT Lundquist: yes Bromo Ivory: Affordable entry ThePrincess? Parisi: we are flexible with what ever gets new ppl in .. small lots with out houses on them ThePrincess? Parisi: ppl want to build their own small places as newbies Bromo Ivory: My first land in CDS was a small plot in NFS Sonja Strom: NFS could be good for that. ThePrincess? Parisi: or second lots Bromo Ivory: Expansion to NFS could be that Naftali Torok: evening everybody, waves a hug Patroklus Murakami: if we expanded NFS and CN we could have many affordable lots in 'East NFS' with some 144m2 lots to provide lots of properties ThePrincess? Parisi: bye naffy Bromo Ivory: Hi Naf! Patroklus Murakami: hi naftali 🙂 Pip Torok: -Hi Naf ThePrincess? Parisi: yeah....hi even Sonja Strom: not only expansion, but development of what exists already. Naftali Torok: lol Jon Seattle: Hi Naf 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: hehe, everyone as the same idea on NFS 🙂 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i agree we have too much empty public space, surround it with lots for citizens Sonja Strom: Hi Naftali ThePrincess? Parisi: if we have to put public to the side, then do it next time Bromo Ivory: Well with the right multiple on land Patroklus Murakami: yes bromo, i agree Bromo Ivory: But the Guild will have tis work cut out for it ThePrincess? Parisi: and did you thinkdesmods void sims ideas ThePrincess? Parisi: yeah Patroklus Murakami: double prim would help ThePrincess? Parisi: im not afraid to have too many ppl Sonja Strom: Some of the public space is to be developed, but that just has not been done yet. ThePrincess? Parisi: double prim cuts the lot number Bromo Ivory: 256 double prims and 512 double prims ThePrincess? Parisi: and raises the price Sonja Strom: At least, that is my understanding. ThePrincess? Parisi: not all double prim Bromo Ivory: Still, this is a good problem to have ThePrincess? Parisi: does double prim how it is purchased Bromo Ivory: This is a technical issue ThePrincess? Parisi: well not if money is an issue Patroklus Murakami: let's move on in five minutes to the next item ThePrincess? Parisi: ok Sonja Strom: What does double prim mean? ThePrincess? Parisi: dont tell her ill take her half Sonja Strom: Is it that the sim has 2x as many prims, Jon Seattle: I would recomment giving the guild a high residency sim as a guideline, but letting them be a bit creative about it. Bromo Ivory: Oh instead of 117 prims per 512m, it is 234 per 512m Sonja Strom: or only how they are distributed? Bromo Ivory: Jon - this is a great idea ThePrincess? Parisi: yes two times the prims on each lot Bromo Ivory: Maybe the Guild could respond of what Guidance they would require? ThePrincess? Parisi: good idea bromo Jon Seattle hears a pin drop 🙂 ThePrincess? Parisi: reading Brian Livingston: I agree with Jon's recommendation MT Lundquist: so do i ThePrincess? Parisi: iso do i ThePrincess? Parisi: did we get a five minute break ThePrincess? Parisi: brb Sonja Strom: ok Patroklus Murakami: okay, take two and we'll resume agenda item 3 at 1:30 Brian Livingston: If you tie the hands of the Guild too much durign the design phase, you'll behanmpering their creativity. Give them guidelines and feedback ,btu be careful about stepping o ntheir toes 🙂 Patroklus Murakami: wise words brian. we don't want to be too prescriptive, but at the same time we don't want to agree the colour of the bathroom handles by committtee 🙂 ThePrincess? Parisi: -we have bathrooms? Patroklus Murakami: you don't? :p ThePrincess? Parisi: im all for letting them be creative Bromo Ivory: SL bathrroms? Scary what one might Rez ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a powder room Patroklus Murakami: LOL Patroklus Murakami: department of no surprise! Patroklus Murakami: okay, let's move on Brian Livingston is all for avocado tiles to be utilized in all kitchens in the CDs with Mustard Yellow appliances and tangerine colored furniture Patroklus Murakami: item 3. various electoral change bills Patroklus Murakami: i suggest that, rather than consider these now, we should form a committee to consider the issues and come back with proposals that can command a majority at the RA MT Lundquist: agreewith that ThePrincess? Parisi: yes this is very important and should not be rushed Patroklus Murakami: there's no rush, is there? the next elections aren't until july. provided we give ourselves time to enact any changes well, that's all we need to do ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed Patroklus Murakami: who would like to participate? ThePrincess? Parisi: me ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe flyingroc Patroklus Murakami: jon, beathan? how about you? Jon Seattle: Yes, I am willing. Beathan Vale: I will ThePrincess? Parisi: cindy MT Lundquist: i will to Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to get some SC involvement too Patroklus Murakami: (but don't let that hold you up too long) ThePrincess? Parisi: come on beathan you dont have anything to do Patroklus Murakami: who would like to lead this? i.e. make sure things happen? Bromo Ivory: (Pat?) Patroklus Murakami: no way! ThePrincess? Parisi: MT Patroklus Murakami: sorry, too busy MT Lundquist: i can yes Bromo Ivory: Pat or MT Beathan Vale: I can too ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan Bromo Ivory: Beathan would be good MT Lundquist: i'm happy for beathan to do it Patroklus Murakami: ok, is that agreed then? ThePrincess? Parisi: go mohawk Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objection, that is what we'll do Patroklus Murakami: now, one thing i forgot to do at the start Patroklus Murakami: was ask MT to report back from the commerce commission Patroklus Murakami: i know you have had one meeting so far ThePrincess? Parisi: he cant ThePrincess? Parisi: its not on the agenda Patroklus Murakami: i was at it yesterday, and it went very well Bromo Ivory: lol ThePrincess? Parisi: oh you cant talk Patroklus Murakami: do you have anything to report ThePrincess? Parisi: how come you can ad business ThePrincess? Parisi: and we cant Brian Livingston: Quick question... is there any way we can move the meetings an hour or two later on saturdays for teh commision? MT Lundquist: yes i can do that brian MT Lundquist: the first meeting was a brain storming meeting Patroklus Murakami: well, i did intend to put this on the agenda at the start of the meeting but i forgot. (human, sorry). do we want to have a report or wait til next week? MT Lundquist: to establish views from interestined parties ThePrincess? Parisi: no you are excused 🙂 MT Lundquist: interested* Jon Seattle: I have to get going. thanks everyone. MT Lundquist: next week we will look at lots around the sims to determine whether and how they are being used to inform the commission ThePrincess? Parisi: bye jon ty Brian Livingston waves to Jon Patroklus Murakami: bye jon 🙂 Bromo Ivory: Bye Jon! MT Lundquist: the meeting was well attend MT Lundquist: and lots of input MT Lundquist: I will post on the forum shortly Patroklus Murakami: ty MT. i'm sure we'll return to this in future weeks Patroklus Murakami: next, item 4 ThePrincess? Parisi: didnt beathan have a bill Patroklus Murakami: beathan, would you like to introduce your bill? Beathan Vale: I have proposed several changes to the RA procedures — some of these just clarify the xisting the procedure — but some modify it substantially Beathan Vale: the most significan cange would be to use Roberts Rules of Order to govern meetings — I think that we need a more formal and clear procedure — and one that is scalable — and we don't have such a procedure now Beathan Vale: additionally - I propose that we add a "good of the CDS" period ot our meeting s- -not to allow ambush but to encourae discussion and reveal issues we on the RA might nothave on our radar Sonja Strom: I agree. I thought we were using them already. 😐 MT Lundquist: i support this proposal ThePrincess? Parisi: we need something:) Beathan Vale: I propose that we break the bill into its pieces and consider each separately ThePrincess? Parisi: can we add the agendas are here the day before ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ThePrincess? Parisi: lets do that beathan Patroklus Murakami: i agree with approach beathan Sonja Strom: Perhaps a "Public Discussion Time." Bromo Ivory: "New items" or "items not on agenda" ThePrincess? Parisi: im not good withthe frist paragraph ThePrincess? Parisi: honestly i think we need to vote here Patroklus Murakami: let's take things one at a time Beathan Vale: I don't wnat an "itmes not on agenda" because it is important that no votes be taken — but I do agree with a discussion period Patroklus Murakami: let's discuss the first paragraph first Sonja Strom: "Open Discussion Period." Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, what is your objection to this? Bromo Ivory: Yes ThePrincess? Parisi: well i posted this on the forums too.. right now we have an audience ThePrincess? Parisi: and they need to see their govt in action Beathan Vale: paragraph 1 just clarifies existing procedures I think ThePrincess? Parisi: hey need to see us vote, and be privy to that process ThePrincess? Parisi: well we need to vote if we are here Beathan Vale: so — TP — you want to do away with the 7 day vote procedure? ThePrincess? Parisi: nooo ThePrincess? Parisi: i think we should have 7 day if we are absent Patroklus Murakami: how dos this differ from the procedures we have at present? ThePrincess? Parisi: but if we are here we should vote Patroklus Murakami: *does Patroklus Murakami: "If all present concur, the vote may occur at the in-world meeting. Otherwise, or if one of the members not present has made a public request to do so prior to the meeting, the members vote before the next in world meeting. The results are published in the forum, along with how each member voted." What's the difference? ThePrincess? Parisi: id like to hear from the public on this........ Sonja Strom: I would like tor the bill to have an exact name for the "for the good of the CDS discussion period" Beathan Vale: well — the purpose of that is to prevent RA members from being required to vote on items they are not prepared to vote on — which is what happened to TP last term ThePrincess? Parisi: soemone is always not here ThePrincess? Parisi: well if we get an agenda before hadn.. maybe we can be prepared always Patroklus Murakami: sonja, we'll come to that later. let's stick to para 1 first Beathan Vale: Pat — no difference — but it does clarify that votes aer final - which is not yet clariifed ,a lthoug I think it is implied Sonja Strom: ok ThePrincess? Parisi: i think if we are here we should vote, and if we have an agenda before teh meeting we can be prepared Patroklus Murakami: why do need to clarify that votes are final? when has that ever been challenged? Brian Livingston: What stops someone from signign off mid-meetign to avoid voting? It;'s a tactic that would be legal, although arguably dishonest Beathan Vale: Pat — paragraph 1 is more prudential and needful Brian Livingston: well, legal is a bad word... replace that with permitted ThePrincess? Parisi: nothing brian Patroklus Murakami: prudential and needful? what does that mean? ThePrincess? Parisi: i think the citizens want to see us vote Beathan Vale: no need — but I think that my language makes things more clear Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, do you have an amendment? you said you want RA members present to vote in the meetings. how might we include that? ThePrincess? Parisi: it makes teh meetings moot and i think ppl wont come Beathan Vale: I think that will cause problems Beathan Vale: voting on the forus has been fine — and there is nothin wrong with a "presence" vote inworld for purposes of a quorum followed by a forum vote when the RA member needs more time to think something through ThePrincess? Parisi: you have made me vote if im here in the past ThePrincess? Parisi: what did i miss ThePrincess? Parisi: if we are here we have to vote Beathan Vale: TP — that was a mistake — and Pat has apologized ThePrincess? Parisi: well thats how it was ALL last term ThePrincess? Parisi: you always made me vote in session Patroklus Murakami: well,i explained (twice) that that was a mistake due to a misunderstanding of the rules ThePrincess? Parisi: well that is a good rule i think ThePrincess? Parisi: will the citizens please say if they care if we vote live or on the forums Patroklus Murakami: well, we need an amendment to beathan's text to make that change. does anyone have one? ThePrincess? Parisi: alexicon ThePrincess? Parisi: bromo ThePrincess? Parisi: naffy ThePrincess? Parisi: lincoln ThePrincess? Parisi: does anyone care if we vote here or later ThePrincess? Parisi: no one is even here.. lol ThePrincess? Parisi: nvm ThePrincess? Parisi: ok i was wrong again Bromo Ivory: As long as the rules are consistent I am OK with it ThePrincess? Parisi: so does that go for voting like for chancellor even ThePrincess? Parisi: these are public events ThePrincess? Parisi: im not ok with not involving the public Beathan Vale: the forums are public Sonja Strom: I think my preference is for voting to take place in the RA meetings, and if we miss them then we miss the opportunity... but I do not feel strongly about this. ThePrincess? Parisi: we need MORE face to face with the public not less Patroklus Murakami: well, if the vote is recorded on the forums surely the transparency point is met? ThePrincess? Parisi: you can vote after the fact sonja if you are gone ThePrincess? Parisi: but if you are here then you can vote here ThePrincess? Parisi: im just worried no one will bother to come to the meetings Beathan Vale: OK — we are being summoned to a the snmowmelting — we might need to carry this over a week Beathan Vale: I move to refer this to a committee for one week only — proposals to be submitted for consideration next week Bromo Ivory: I do think we have a precedent in the RA meeting in world - and Bromo Ivory: OK Patroklus Murakami: how about referring this to committee? so work can carry on in the meantime? Bromo Ivory: Snow melting time ThePrincess? Parisi: i want to know what the citizens think about public meetins Patroklus Murakami: i don't think one week will be enough MT Lundquist: i support beathans one week committee Alexicon Kurka: I need your availability data for Government Question Hours meetings ThePrincess? Parisi: and does it affect chancelors elections Brian Livingston: This is an unenforcable amendment; secondly I am not worried about peopel nto coming to the meetings. The meetings are required to propose and vote on legislation (quorums are requried for the voting to take place). Plus, if a given member has a terrible attendance record, surely that will re addressed during factiong ratings at the election box ThePrincess? Parisi: always available Alexicon Kurka: I have recieved them from some of you Beathan Vale: well — I will represent my bill next week — so if there are alternatives, one week better be enough Patroklus Murakami: alex, i think you have them from me Alexicon Kurka: yes Pat and Sonja Sonja Strom: Who do dyou need them from, Alex? ThePrincess? Parisi: just go ahead with it first next week i propose Sonja Strom: I see. Patroklus Murakami: beathan, will you take the lead on organising that? ThePrincess? Parisi: no committee ThePrincess? Parisi: i ll back down Beathan Vale: sure — I will talk to people this week — make it less formal than a committee ThePrincess? Parisi: kk Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn Brian Livingston: Second ThePrincess? Parisi: me too ThePrincess? Parisi: too the DOCKS Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objection, we stand adjourned. ty everybody The meeting closed at 14:0 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 24, 2008

Agenda

1. Reports
-Code Reorganisation
-Election Rules
-RA Process
-Commerce Commission

2. Pre-budget Discussion
-Funding for events
-Funding for cultural activities (e.g. interactive displays in our historic places so that visitors can learn about the CDS 24/7)
-Civil Service Stipends
-Financing any new sim(s) given the LL ban on banking activities
-Any other planned expenditure by the Executive
-Any other financial matters

3. Expansion Parameters Discussion
“In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.”

4. Chancellor’s Questions

5. Celebrating our volunteers Bill
Transcript

Meeting on 2008-02-24
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: are we all assembled? thanks for persevering everybody
Sonja Strom: ty
Patroklus Murakami: let’s hope this sim doesn’t start to crash soon too 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i’m calling the meeting to order
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
Sonja Strom: i relogged and saw that LL says there are some regions having problems and restarting…
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: a reminder for new people and old…
Patroklus Murakami: the green seats are for anybody (but pls let the RA members sit down first!)
Sonja Strom: yay – the notecards worked…
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: any CDS citizen may contribute when it is open to do so
Patroklus Murakami: guests from outside the CDS are asked to remain quiet in CDS meetings
Troy McLuhan? has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: *in RA meetings
Patroklus Murakami: unless they’ve been called to contribute of course 🙂
Brian Livingston secretly wonders if miming is permitted, provide no sound is made 😉
Patroklus Murakami: and, to everyone, pls don’t interrupt or talk over the Chair (i.e me) or another RA member when they have the floor
Patroklus Murakami smacks brian on the paw 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: noo not pb
Sonja Strom thinks about brian’s thinking out loud
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: how can we tell when an RA member has the floor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the LRA will say so)
Bromo Ivory thinks Roberts RUles would be good for this
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that her own rules would be better 😉
Patroklus Murakami: i will say ‘xxx has the floor’ (as in previous meetings)
Beathan Vale: OK — another meeting run by LRA dictat —

sighs wistfully

Beathan Vale: of only there were some better way 😉
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, unders robert’s rules you’re out of order
Beathan Vale: lol
Beathan Vale: too right
Bromo Ivory: Thank goodness we have Pats rules
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This IS the better way, Beathan!
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not LRA dictat, just basic manners
Patroklus Murakami: anyway, if i may be permitted to chair the meeting…
Patroklus Murakami: first item, reports
Beathan Vale: ah — but there we run into the fact that American “manners” are flat out incompatible with British manners — lol
Sonja Strom: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: “winks”
MT Lundquist: lol
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: brian, do you have anything ot report on the code reorganisation commission?
Patroklus Murakami: *to
Patroklus Murakami: brian?
Sonja Strom: he appears to be (Busy)
Brian Livingston: The meeting Wednesday didn’t particularly happen unfortunately. In retrospect, a CD-wide Im would’vev helped better announce the start of hte meeting and so on, but we’ll try again this wednesday
Brian Livingston: I am laggign terribly Pat
Patroklus Murakami: ok. let’s take that as your report then 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i would like to attend brian
MT Lundquist: Can i ask that its at an earlier time Brian
MT Lundquist: ty
Brian Livingston: Wednesday at 6, theres an announcement i nthe events forum 🙂
Sonja Strom: I have some lag too
MT Lundquist: 6pm?
Brian Livingston: Sory, 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 PM SLT?
MT Lundquist: thats my midnight
Sonja Strom: 5am would be better for me too 🙂
Brian Livingston: oEarliest I can hol it unfortuantely, as I work until that time unless hrmm,
MT Lundquist: weekend?
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps the forum thread could also be used by those who can’t get to the meeting? i won’t be able to make it that time either
Brian Livingston: I am thinking it may be best to ghold this discussion offline. I think timezones will permanently be an issue here…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty brian. i think you might be right!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, do *both*….
Brian Livingston: I am open to meeting at other times though in worl or via emil or whatnot
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gwneth
ThePrincess? Parisi: both and merge the minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Brian Livingston: Just eail me at bri.liv and I’ll figure out something ;0
MT Lundquist: ty
Brian Livingston: err, bri.liv(at)gmail.com
Patroklus Murakami: can we move on to ‘election rules’ and ‘RA process’? beathan, can you report on these?
Beathan Vale: I am still receiving meeting time recommendations — but I am favoring having the meetings in the location where the RA is meeting one hour before the RA meeting and continuing after RA adjoirnment if necessary — I will also have “open” or “drop in” hours (both US and Euro time slots) at my house in CN — my sense is that while this matter is important, it is not immediately urgent as we still have time before the next election needs to be organized — but I know we want work done on this this term — am I right about the sense of the RA?
ThePrincess? Parisi: um.. guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Guild meets before the RA, Beathan…
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a clash with teh guild? i think that meets at 10am on Sundays
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they do, yes
Beathan Vale: hmm — OK — how about immediately after then?
ThePrincess? Parisi: better
MT Lundquist: thats ok
Patroklus Murakami: works 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees too 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and ‘RA process’?
Sonja Strom: absolutely
Beathan Vale: I have continued this proposal one week. I am receiving comments. The proposal current has six components — including two with alternate proposals so far. Anyone who wants to see the current version can IM me.
Patroklus Murakami: ok. MT, could you update us on the work of the commerce commission?
MT Lundquist: we met for the second time yesterday
MT Lundquist: sudane was kind enough to guide us round all the commercial areas
MT Lundquist: i will be producing stats (simple ones) on occupancy and use
MT Lundquist: we will meet next saturday to consider the brain storming ideas from the week before
Patroklus Murakami: ty MT. that seems to be coming along nicely
Patroklus Murakami: Let’s move on to item 2
Patroklus Murakami: Pre-budget discussion
Patroklus Murakami: the idea here is that we give our treasurer sudane some idea of our priorities this term
Patroklus Murakami: so that she can develop a budget for our approval
Sudane Erato: or i would say our Chancellor
Alexicon Kurka: togther with Sudane
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i thought it was the treasurer who did that?
Sudane Erato: the Treasurer is, to my understanding… an official of the exceutive
Patroklus Murakami: ah well, i stand corrected 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Chancellor presents the budget as chair of the exec…
Sudane Erato: emphasize… “to my understanding” 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve suggested a number of sub issues to consider
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take them in order
Alexicon Kurka: but off course works with the Treasurer for preparing the budget
Patroklus Murakami: funding for events. any comments on that budget line?
Alexicon Kurka: I know that in the previous term there has been 250$L per event allocated
Alexicon Kurka: as far as I know from the field, 3-5000 would be more realistic
Patroklus Murakami: well it was per month rather than per event i think…
ThePrincess? Parisi: it depends on th eevent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes for live music/DJ events…
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: but some are free
Alexicon Kurka: we have many event done by our citizens
Alexicon Kurka: on their costs
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Alexicon Kurka: but CDS should support some events seriously
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
MT Lundquist: i agree
Alexicon Kurka: what do the rest thinks please
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we have a fund thqt will aslo accept contributions ..
Patroklus Murakami: what is our current monthly budget?
Brian Livingston: wELL, i AM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT HTE PROPOSAL IS IN TERMS OF A ROUND BUDGET FIGURE?
Sudane Erato: we have no current budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn is always for more events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Brian Livingston: iS THE 3 – 5K PER EVENT FOR ONLY cdS EVENTS OR ARE WE NOW FULLY PAYING FOR PRIVATE EVENTS AS WELL?
Brian Livingston: Ack, caps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so L$0 /monthly!
Sudane Erato: yes… but the money does exist
ThePrincess? Parisi: they should be only for CDS events.. shurly
Brian Livingston: Appologies for the caps folks, miskeyed the key :p
Sonja Strom: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the bill we passed specified an amount per month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it should be put to good use for CDS events…
Alexicon Kurka: maybe have the RA approve some official CDS events, though the list should be open, things happen on the way
ThePrincess? Parisi: so 5 k per month .. ?
Patroklus Murakami: the wiki is, of course, in accessible to find it tho
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i like that …….alexicon
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t understand what that means alex. what kind of events are you referring to?
Patroklus Murakami: aah, found it. “A sum of $L4 000/month is appropriated to this programme beginning in August 2007 and running through to the end of January 2008.”
ThePrincess? Parisi: regular events like inagural balls? stuff like that
Alexicon Kurka: I think we should have severa events per month going
Alexicon Kurka: we do have the Metanomics with minimum effort
Alexicon Kurka: but we can use more occasions to meet and attract new potential citizens
MT Lundquist: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: and for us to have fun
Alexicon Kurka: I am thinking of chances like the melting or freezing of sims
Patroklus Murakami: what do other RA members who haven’t spoken yet think?
ThePrincess? Parisi: when we have contributed to these ………we never got reimbursed.we just donated the money……
Alexicon Kurka: and there are some art initiatives that deserver to be adopted CDS wide
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i agree alexicon…..we need a regular event scheudle put out.. monthy maybe.. weekly socials?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then big events……..
Sonja Strom: So, you are asking that we increase the amount for events from L$4000 to L$5000 per month?
MT Lundquist: i guess some events will low cost some higher
ThePrincess? Parisi: inagural ball, holidays
Patroklus Murakami: hold on, let’s hear from ppl who haven’t spoken yet
Leon Ash: Pat, in general I’m for regular events, providing they are successful. By successful I mean that they are attended
MT Lundquist: 5K seems reasonable
Patroklus Murakami: sonja, the proposal seems to be to increase the funding to 5k
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
Sonja Strom: I am in favor of that.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and to hvae regular events? determinted by who alexicon?
Alexicon Kurka: the PIO seems to me the central point on that
Patroklus Murakami: just to be clear, i’d like to hear from those RA members who haven’t spoken yet. could those who have pls be quiet a moment?
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, you have yet to express a view
Alexicon Kurka: but we want to have a cometee with the two event managers too
Beathan Vale: I cede my time to ThePrincess?
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: does that mean you don’t have a view beathan? or just don’t want to express it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: call to order
Patroklus Murakami: (i never had you down as the shy type)
Beathan Vale: neither, I assure you
Patroklus Murakami: well, there seems to be an emerging consensus around 5k per month for events
ThePrincess? Parisi: may i please ask a question?
Patroklus Murakami: one factor we need to keep in mind of course is that it is our citizens’ money we are spending so we must be prudent 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: what is your question theprincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: may we have an idea of a scheudle of events ahead of time ?
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe by month
Patroklus Murakami: i think that’s a question for our chancellor 🙂
Alexicon Kurka: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: indeed
Alexicon Kurka: we will have the callender used again
Sudane Erato: yes!
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
Sudane Erato: we should use the GCalendar
Patroklus Murakami: ok, let’s move on to ‘cultural activities’. i’d like to explain this for a minute or two
Patroklus Murakami: here, we were thinking about somethign that is permanent (or at least lasts for a long time). somethign available 24/7 which woudl tell newcomers about the CDS
ThePrincess? Parisi: huh? like what
Patroklus Murakami: it could involve exhibits in the church or the rathaus or other ‘historic’ buildings in the cDS
Patroklus Murakami: its a bit like the walking tour bill and the proposal to have a sort of hall of fame
Patroklus Murakami: something interactive that ppl can learn from even when ppl are not around
ThePrincess? Parisi: ohh ..like in the bill nuCARE has on the agenda?
MT Lundquist: this sounds very like the last agenda item pat
MT Lundquist: and the tour bill
Patroklus Murakami: well, that’s one idea
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh ok
Patroklus Murakami: what do others think of the general principle?
MT Lundquist: so its a copy really pat then
ThePrincess? Parisi: well since i wrote abill about it with NuCARE i indeed approve
MT Lundquist: just placed first
MT Lundquist: on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: MT, that’s really unfair
MT Lundquist: oh
MT Lundquist: really
Patroklus Murakami: you shouldn’t be so prickly. i posted this as an idea on the forums over a week ago. there’s no conflict with the nucare proposals
Patroklus Murakami: we’re all arguing for the same thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye aye
Leon Ash: Yep
Leon Ash: I am sorry everyone, but my time is up. Must go and prepare for tomorrow and then bed 🙂 Night all
ThePrincess? Parisi: night leon
Patroklus Murakami: good night leon
Pip Torok: night leon
Sonja Strom: ok bye leon
MT Lundquist: night leon
Alexicon Kurka: Me and the PIO are thinking of ways to improve the welcome information on central points on all three sims, including a soptlight service on on going cultural activities sounds good to me.
Patroklus Murakami: i assume CSDF and NuCARE reps are in favour of this (we both argued for something similar in the election). do the other reps feel the same way?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok our bill, yes
Sonja Strom: In general I am in favor – are there differences between the 2 bills?
Brian Livingston: In principal yes
Patroklus Murakami: we’re not on the bill yet sonja
Sonja Strom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: this is the general idea of having a ‘cultural activities’ budget for the kind of things the bill (and the walking tour) envisages
Sonja Strom: yes, I am in favor of that.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i dont know for the lack of detail
Beathan Vale: me too
Beathan Vale: in principle
ThePrincess? Parisi: well the walking tour is what?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and how does it coincide with a guided tour
ThePrincess? Parisi: are we doubling our efforts
Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s a way of celebrating our achievements and our history
ThePrincess? Parisi: well thats the bill i proposed
Patroklus Murakami: and it is a lasting thing available 24/7
ThePrincess? Parisi: so of course ….that is ok with me
MT Lundquist: I suggest we simple add the walking tour to the guided toru under the guidance of theprincess
Patroklus Murakami: yes. this is about having *more* ideas like that with a budget to fund them
ThePrincess? Parisi: that is part of the guided tour aleready pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats fine..
Sonja Strom: that was my understanding too…
ThePrincess? Parisi: there should be a budget item for that sort of thing, yes
Patroklus Murakami: well, what i’m saying is that there is more we could do. the guided tour is a great start. let’s have a fund of 5k /month for the same kind of activities
ThePrincess? Parisi: but not the detail list
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes agreed
Beathan Vale: let’s set this as a priority — and wait for the details
Sonja Strom: could this detail be discussed by the “Guided Tour” committee?
Brian Livingston: I don’t think am onthly amount is appropriate for an item like this as it isn’t really an ongoing expense but largely a one time expenditure for eah segment of hte project
ThePrincess? Parisi: the walking tour has been sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
ThePrincess? Parisi: brian you are correct.. its a set up
ThePrincess? Parisi: not a monthy budget thing
ThePrincess? Parisi: fro those type of things
Patroklus Murakami: how about 30k for projects over the course of six months?
ThePrincess? Parisi: better
Sonja Strom: so this is would be an addition to what has been proposed already by that committee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian has a point indeed…. so, fixed budget for ongoing events/projects?
Patroklus Murakami: yes sonja
Sonja Strom: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hmm 6 times L$ 5k + 30 k
Patroklus Murakami: i see it a spending authority so we can budget for it
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree pat
Patroklus Murakami: no gwyn, 6 times 5k =30k
Patroklus Murakami: in total for six months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no additional L$ for ongoing projects?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok, sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: its just a guess and we can ask to vary it if needed … cant it be allocated that way.. either lump to start or ongoing costs… nothing now has that does it
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure how we got lost there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I skipped one line, Pat my apologies 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: nm 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to civil service stipends
Patroklus Murakami: these currently stand at 1k per month for RA archivist, SC archivist, PIO and treasurer i think
Patroklus Murakami: (pls correct me if i’m wrong)
ThePrincess? Parisi: each PIO? or just one
Sudane Erato: also land caretaker
Alexicon Kurka: not PIO, event manager
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have three?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Brian Livingston: each PIO? There’s ,multiple?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes brian
Patroklus Murakami: how can we have three PIO?
Sudane Erato: I was not aware of multiple
Sonja Strom: I didn’t know that either *g*
Alexicon Kurka: PIO and event manager is a different function
Alexicon Kurka: last term Rose did both
Sudane Erato: yes… i agree with that..
Sudane Erato: they should be separate
MT Lundquist: i agree
Sonja Strom: I think so too, just did not know it had already been done.
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Sudane Erato: but… 3 PIO’s ?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lots of events to manage 😉
Sonja Strom: does that include the Events Manger?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one PIO, two assistant PIOs
Alexicon Kurka: the PIO has a much more central role
Sudane Erato: no… lts of information to publicize 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that too, Sudane 🙂 … and events to announce etc
Sonja Strom: so we have 3 PIOs and an Events Manager?
Alexicon Kurka: why 3 PIOs?
Alexicon Kurka: how did we get there?
Alexicon Kurka: we have one PIO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, one PIO and at least two people who also announce events 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: did you appoint anyone else?
Gwyneth Llewelyn cheks the group
Patroklus Murakami: well, how many of these are paid a stipend? that’s the key question for us in relation to the budget
Sonja Strom: true…
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: and what are their roles clearly defined?
Sudane Erato: none at the moment… I have been VERY remiss 🙁
Sonja Strom: although I am also curious about this development in general
Sudane Erato: it sounds to me that everyone here asks who are the 3 PIO’s
ThePrincess? Parisi: well Arria is your PIO
Sudane Erato: and no one knows… nor who appointed them
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then who does events alexicon?
Alexicon Kurka: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: didyou appoint two ppl to do events?
Sonja Strom: yes Sudane, and what are their roles…
Alexicon Kurka: and Bells and Cidy are our event managers
Patroklus Murakami: i think it might be helpful alex if you posted an announcement in the Exectuve Announcements sub-forum to say who these appointees are
Alexicon Kurka: mostly hosting events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Bells and Cindy…. yes
Sonja Strom: good point Pat, well said.
ThePrincess? Parisi: so who does what? cindy does metanomics right?
ThePrincess? Parisi: who gets paid?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: PIO is Arria who gets paid as PIO 😀
Sudane Erato: “who should get paid”
Patroklus Murakami: do we want to vary the rate we pay our civil servants? and do we want to extend/retract the number who receive them?
Alexicon Kurka: the RA has to decide that and approve it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you propose the budget, though, Alex 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: i would say that the PIO gets 1000.. but i want to know what they do..
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. oops
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we get a job description for the stipends
Brian Livingston: And how does this all related to nl 4-26, the Public Information Act? It defines the role of the PIO and seems to indiate that there is one person for t role
Sudane Erato: yes Brian
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we have that brian?
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
Alexicon Kurka: In the previous budget there was 0L for the PIO, 1000 for the event manager
Brian Livingston: Actually, 4-26 really seems to indicate that the event manager and PIO roles are all part of hte PIO’s responsibilities, not that I am against necessarailly dlegating toan event manager
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian: the PIO is the overall coordinator, but doesn’t run the events themselves (too many, and too different!)
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we can return to this when alex has had a chance to prepare a budget proposal?
Alexicon Kurka: I need to hear your ideas on that anyway
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i am more concered actually about the information peice than events
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a bit confusing and i fear we’ll get tied up in this otherwise
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (currently PIO is a civil servant, the Event Managers are outsourced experts 😉 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … meaning that their payment would come from the 30k
Sudane Erato: actually, “insourced” 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: this is a important position and it is to be more so as we grow
Brian Livingston: err, the 5k?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … while the PIO would have a salary
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks, that helps to clarify this.
ThePrincess? Parisi: NO brian
Patroklus Murakami: well, alex. for what it’s worth i want to keep it to 1k and not expand teh number of civil servants too far
Brian Livingston: the 30 is for cultural displays and so on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (30k term budget, Brian)
Patroklus Murakami: this is a new item brian. we’ve moved on from cultural activities to civil service stipends
Alexicon Kurka: may I ask why does the Chancellor has no stipend?
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the question is easy to solve. Are Event Managers civil servants or not? 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: good question
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gwyneth they are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Alex, GOOD QUESTION 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: imo
Patroklus Murakami: same reason the LRA and Dean don’t ….
Brian Livingston: I realize that, an Gwyn pretty mucch pose the question that was next
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they are, Princess… things have to be slightly different
ThePrincess? Parisi: the events person coodrdinates the events …….and the y allocate the pay for ppl that might come in to do them
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats just my opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Exec can hire whomever he pleases,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but civil servants are… different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they have public roles
Alexicon Kurka: so you sugets an event manager per event Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they are able to be ‘questioned’ by the RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: ty gwyen
Alexicon Kurka: no continuity needed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no ? Alex, I suggest they are simple ‘outsourced’ workers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: paid-per-task
Alexicon Kurka: k
Patroklus Murakami: two minutes folks, then we need to move on
Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i am unaware of who does that gwyen
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can talk
Sonja Strom: thank you for your help Gwyn!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (while the PIO, however, is part of the Exec! there are…. mmmh…. special issues regarding the civil service 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the wiki
ThePrincess? Parisi: kk
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to the next item – financing our next sim(s) – as this is rather important!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes :))))
MT Lundquist: yes indeed
Alexicon Kurka looks at Sudane
Sudane Erato: ahh
Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s not entirely clear, but it would seem that the LL ban on banking might affect they way we have expanded up until now
Sudane Erato: sorry….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Patroklus Murakami: we have previously offered bonds and paid a rate of interest
Sudane Erato: well… I do have a cooment about this
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not clear we’ll e able to do that in future
Patroklus Murakami: pls do come in sudane. perhaps you could tell us if we *need* to raise funds for a new sim (or sims)
Sudane Erato: a bit of context
Sudane Erato: buying a sim is not an expense…
Sudane Erato: its an investemnt
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: as you know,…. when we buy a sim
Sudane Erato: we pay out money
Sudane Erato: and we very soon get it all back in land purchases
Sudane Erato: at that point we still have the sim as part of our community
Sudane Erato: but the money has all flowed back tp us
Sudane Erato: therefore, since buying a sim is not an expense
Sudane Erato: it is something that we do from our available cash
Sudane Erato: at the beginning, we did not have enough available cash to buy a sim
Sudane Erato: so we had to borrow
Sudane Erato: I would suggest that so long as we do not draw down our reservevs by unwise budgets, where we have expenses greater than out income
Sudane Erato: that we simply buy the sims from our cash
Sudane Erato: and pay it back
Sudane Erato: no need for loans and interest
Sudane Erato: only, that we must adjust our purchasing rate
MT Lundquist: so this sounds like a green light on the financing of the new sim
Sudane Erato: to match the funds that we have
Patroklus Murakami: so, how many sims can we buy with our current cash ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: can I just ask Sudane when we would have funds for the next sim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh exactly, Pat)
Sudane Erato: and we have, at the moment… a bit less that US$5000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
ThePrincess? Parisi: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: OMG
Alexicon Kurka: !
ThePrincess? Parisi: one sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had NO idea
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Beathan Vale: Woot!
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay!!
Sudane Erato: yes, we can easily buy one sim
Patroklus Murakami: that’s pretty healthy. how much does a sim cost now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn faints
Sudane Erato: i would n ot buy 2
Sudane Erato: 1675 US$
Salzie Sachertorte: But does every citizen want to?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
MT Lundquist: yes moving ahead rapidly one by one seems sensible
ThePrincess? Parisi: what salzie?
Patroklus Murakami: let’s handle all those isues later
ThePrincess? Parisi: want to what
Patroklus Murakami: no, stop
Patroklus Murakami: let’s not disappear down a rabbit hole
ThePrincess? Parisi: salzie cannot talk?
Patroklus Murakami: we’re discussing the financing of new sim(s)
Patroklus Murakami: we’re not discussing the merits/demerits of doing so
Patroklus Murakami: this agenda item is about teh budget it is *not* about buying a new sim (or not)
Salzie Sachertorte: well, I can see where the average citizen stands
Salzie Sachertorte: good day
Patroklus Murakami: that’s under item 3
Patroklus Murakami: let’s complete this agenda item them move on
Patroklus Murakami: alexicon, are there any other items of planned expenditure you would like to raise with us?
Alexicon Kurka: yes
Patroklus Murakami: in order to get a steer before planning a budget proposal?
Alexicon Kurka: I want to profesionalise the basis of our website
Alexicon Kurka: and allocate a serious ammount for the hosting
Alexicon Kurka: base the development still on volunteers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes
Alexicon Kurka: as part of our activities happen on the website
Alexicon Kurka: a serious ammount of ‘living’ on CDS is using the website
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with what you’re saying alex 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, i do too
MT Lundquist: this seems sensible
Patroklus Murakami: but i wonder what a ‘serious amount’ might be 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees too, *except* with the monthly cost that I’m sure Alex will propose 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we really afford this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: depends on ‘ho mujch’
Alexicon Kurka: I think that in the long termine, somthing like the monthly fee for a whole sim is very realistic
Alexicon Kurka: but for now
Alexicon Kurka: I was thinking of something like 180K for the 6 months
Alexicon Kurka: $L
Patroklus Murakami: what’s that in US$
ThePrincess? Parisi: so , may i ask for calarification on my understanding from mizou, who has been workign on this with you and arria correct?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: US$100
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can get this service free? right. but the quality is not as good?
Alexicon Kurka: per month Gwyn
ThePrincess? Parisi: hosting can be done free?
ThePrincess? Parisi: like now
ThePrincess? Parisi: but you want better quality hosting
Sudane Erato: nothing is free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, but we can get it for US$10/month 😉
Sudane Erato: someone must pay for it
Alexicon Kurka: yes the Princess
ThePrincess? Parisi: hmm.. i thought mizou….well ten dollar s a month now?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Alexicon Kurka: we need more than a small business facility, as we expand and have multiple website
ThePrincess? Parisi: so now we spend 10 dollars a month? and we need more quality? what will we get ? why is it better to pay ? i dont unerstand the difference
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s ‘being generously paid for’ outside the budget right now, Princess
Symo Kurka: neither do i
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not saying we dont need to do this, i just want to know what we get
Alexicon Kurka: to keep things managable
Alexicon Kurka: we need a serious content management basis
Sonja Strom: $100 US over a 6-month period is not much more than $10/month.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no… US$600 per term
Patroklus Murakami: the current websites are provided for the love of it by volunteers with spare/ paid-for capacity
Alexicon Kurka: I am thinking of more like 100$ per month
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh ok
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks for the clarification.
Patroklus Murakami: well, we need to cut our cloth according to our income. i feel 100$/month is out of our range
Sudane Erato: i think we should wait to see the proposed budget
Sudane Erato: before what we decide is “in our range”
MT Lundquist: i agree with Sudane
ThePrincess? Parisi: is it for what ppl do ? or server space?
MT Lundquist: i would like to see a proposal
Sonja Strom: good question, Princess.
Sudane Erato: i think the basis for what Alex proposes is very strong
Sudane Erato: and we only have to match it with the money we have
Patroklus Murakami: well, 100$ spent on this is 100$ less for other things. i think we can give a steer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: server space ? work would be volunteer for now
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be more comfortable with a proposal in the 10-50$/month range
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: that’s where i am right now
Sonja Strom: really, wow, so much for server space?
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i just also want to know why its better the paid space, vs free
Sonja Strom: is that a normal amount for it?
Alexicon Kurka: for corporate CMS it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just a technical comment… for US$10/mo we can get server space with 99% uptime. For US$100/mo, probably 99.7%. For US$1000/mo, 99.99%
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets get a proposal from alexicon, pat?
Sonja Strom: Thank you Gwyneth.
Patroklus Murakami: sure. i’m happy to wait for a proposal but its’ surely helpful for alex to know what RA members’ boundaries are – 100$/month is too much in my opinion. but I’m still willing to listen to a good business case
ThePrincess? Parisi: not mine till i know what we get
MT Lundquist: well i’m happy to see a proposal
ThePrincess? Parisi: im keeping an open mind
MT Lundquist: up to $100 month
MT Lundquist: if the spend is justifiable
Alexicon Kurka: The idea is to uncouple the hosting form the volunteerely sfeer to assure continuity
MT Lundquist: hence the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on, we need to see the proposal to make progress on this
Patroklus Murakami: any other financial matters we need to cover before the budget is prepared?
Sonja Strom: I would want to know where we are at now, and why we would want to make this change. Also a few options would be nice – perhaps some different combinations as possibilities?
MT Lundquist: i support sonjas points
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too
Sonja Strom: However, I am not against it – just need more information.
Patroklus Murakami: ok. let’s end that item then
Sonja Strom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: Now, we have come to the end of our allotted time and we still have some key items to cover.
Alexicon Kurka: thanks for the input anyway
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we cover item 3 on the forums and try to cover chancellor’s questions in twenty minutes
Sonja Strom: thanks for your work and thoughts, Alex.
Patroklus Murakami: are RA members, and alex, happy to carry on for twenty minutes?
Sonja Strom: I am.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am
Alexicon Kurka: yes I am here
Beathan Vale: sure
MT Lundquist: yes
Patroklus Murakami: ok, with the understanding that ppl may have to disappear let’s have our first chancellor’s questions of this term!
Brian Livingston: sur
Patroklus Murakami: who would like to begin the grilling?
Sonja Strom: Is there anything you need from us?
Alexicon Kurka: I have recieved too little availability chart fot teh questioning hours
Sonja Strom: who do you need yet to hear from?
ThePrincess? Parisi: MT and I are avialble any time you request
Patroklus Murakami: could everyone give alex their availability if they haven’t done already?
Alexicon Kurka: I have the feeling that the time slots after the RA are valuable
Alexicon Kurka: and can be wisely allocated for questioning the Chancellor and the Government
Sonja Strom: My preference is to keep the Open Public Discussion differentiated from the RA meetings.
Patroklus Murakami: alex, i suggest you just set a time with the information you have from some of us. it’s important that we get these started again for the purposes of open government
Sonja Strom: We could have them scheduled on the same day, but with at least someting of a break in-between.
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes how about after metanomics
ThePrincess? Parisi: sundays are grueling already
ThePrincess? Parisi: for me
Patroklus Murakami: have the SC given you their availability too?
ThePrincess? Parisi: but i will be open and do it if thats when other ppl
Sonja Strom: I do think we can have some public discussion in the RA meetings also, but that shoule not be the same as the scheduled time for it.
Alexicon Kurka: metanomics is a steady part of my schedule, too, but what about the rest?
Brian Livingston: Sundays are pretty rough but weekdays I am aailable after 4:30 PM althoguh I have the odd feeling that time works for none but me
Patroklus Murakami: i’m in bed by 4pm SL time most weekdays!
ThePrincess? Parisi: princesses dont require sleep
Sonja Strom: yes, that is 1:am in central Europe.
Alexicon Kurka: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: before RA? is guild
Patroklus Murakami: it’s hellishly difficult to get everybody there. i think you just have to do you best and schedule them for us and euro friendly hours at different times
Sonja Strom: how is that for you, Alex?
ThePrincess? Parisi: before guild?
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we do two
Patroklus Murakami: *your
Alexicon Kurka: what do you think of the mondays?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i like it
Patroklus Murakami: it helps if ppl actually say clearly when they can come and when they cant though
Alexicon Kurka: after Metanomics
Sonja Strom: Brian, could you meet mornings?
MT Lundquist: yes works for me
Patroklus Murakami: after metanomics works reasonably well for me too
ThePrincess? Parisi: im gongi to make it work when ever
Brian Livingston: Metanomics is in the middle of my work day
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest that we don’t try to fix a time here, we’ll be here all day!
Sonja Strom: probably I could do after metanomics – it is in the middle of my workday also, and I am already spending that time in SL.
Brian Livingston: So be forewarned that I will virtualyl never be able to make the question hour
Sonja Strom: But maybe I could do it.
Sonja Strom: Mornings in SL is the best time for me.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ….saturdays?
Alexicon Kurka: Brina: once a month?
Beathan Vale: I agree == let’s not try to schedul this here
Sonja Strom: true Pat – Alexicon, do you still need to hear times from anyone?
Beathan Vale: I can’t commit to a time — not with my calendar
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to a new question. if you haven’t given alex your availability, pls IM him now
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we have a official calender on teh website
Alexicon Kurka: we need someone from the SC right?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami coughs
Patroklus Murakami: order!
Sonja Strom: I would like to find out who is not giving him their times…
Patroklus Murakami: a new question for alexicon please?
Patroklus Murakami: i have one
Patroklus Murakami: could you let us know how the project to build a single CDS web portal is going?
Alexicon Kurka: We have a Website cometee
Patroklus Murakami: i know we just touched on budgeting but i understood it drew in quite a few ppl
Alexicon Kurka: Arria Mizou and me are the memebrs now
Alexicon Kurka: we have set up the general directions in the first meeting
Alexicon Kurka: Mizou will be working on 3 proposals on the design
Alexicon Kurka: Arria has made a scetch of the content
Alexicon Kurka: and I am working on a chart myself
Alexicon Kurka: there are four more citizens that want to work with us as volunteers
Patroklus Murakami: is this group invite-only? or can anyone participate?
Alexicon Kurka: we will form a content group
Alexicon Kurka: this group holds open meetings, however we try to keep it smaal
Alexicon Kurka: in order to proceed quickly
Alexicon Kurka: there has been ideas to involve the citizens
Alexicon Kurka: we will hold a survey on that
Patroklus Murakami: has it been publicised? i don’t think i’ve seen anything but i might have missed a forum post or a group notice
Sonja Strom: me either…
Alexicon Kurka: there is not an open discussion on the forums
Alexicon Kurka: we work with emails
ThePrincess? Parisi: would you mind starting one ?
Sonja Strom: how do citizens find out about this group?
Alexicon Kurka: I would rather proceed getting input in the form of a survey myself
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. i worry that you might be missing out on some of the talented ppl in the CDS who could provide input
Sonja Strom: If I am not mistaken, there was a survey made of what the citizens would like to have on the web pages made not long ago.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it would be better if teh group’s activities were more open
Sonja Strom: I remember Jon asking for input.
Patroklus Murakami: yes sonja. there’s a lot of work already been done on this. it would be a shame to repeat it
Alexicon Kurka: well the next meeting will be at the 5th of March on the monastery.
Alexicon Kurka: as I had another survey to arrange from the RA, the website will be next
Patroklus Murakami: any other questions?
Alexicon Kurka: we are preparing the direct TP survey first
Sonja Strom: yes, that is also one where a survey was already made.
Sonja Strom: more might be helpful…
ThePrincess? Parisi: no there is a follow up one sonja
ThePrincess? Parisi: that was requestied six months after the bill passed
ThePrincess? Parisi: to see the effects
Sonja Strom: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think he means that
Patroklus Murakami: yes, the survey on direct tp in colonia nova
Alexicon Kurka: yes
Sonja Strom: ok, that seems like a good idea.
Patroklus Murakami: if there are no other questions i move we adjourn. we have used up our additional time
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!
Patroklus Murakami: yes, it was a struggle today!
Sonja Strom: I second your move.
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objections to adjournment, we are adjourned
Patroklus Murakami: thank you everybody
The meeting closed at 14:24 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 02, 2008

Agenda

1. Reports
-Commerce Commission
-Code Reorganisation
-Election Rules
-RA Process

2. Expansion Parameters Discussion
“In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.”

3. RA Process Bill

4. Celebrating our volunteers Bill

5. Greener Sims Bill
Transcript

Meeting on 2008-03-02
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
MT Lundquist: everythings the wrong size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we need to set up a new pub in NFS, and call it “The Koala and The Lion” 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: im amazed we dont have tiny chairs
MT Lundquist: yes great idea
ThePrincess? Parisi: seems the ADA requires it
Patroklus Murakami: well, since i’m being painted as an ogre i thought i might as well look the part 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: well you were on your way to green.. i thought you just ate something bad
ThePrincess? Parisi: as a fashion tip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: id say you clash with the upholstrey
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
Beathan Vale: terrible lag problems
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll live with that
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: sonja shd be here soon
ThePrincess? Parisi: and there is symo
ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome
Symo Kurka: ty hi all
ThePrincess? Parisi: what kind of ogre are you ?
MT Lundquist: hi symo
Symo Kurka: hello MT
Patroklus Murakami: a japanese devil or ‘oni’ 🙂
MT Lundquist: neat
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
Patroklus Murakami: great, we’re all here now
MT Lundquist: hi sonja
Sonja Strom: hi everybody
Patroklus Murakami: let’s begin. pls touch the recorder etc etc to show you don’t mind being chatlogged
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: there is one change to the agenda from the draft i published yesterday
Troy McLuhan? has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: any other buisness to the end?
ThePrincess? Parisi: did you forget it
Patroklus Murakami: i added in a report on the guided tour committee as i don’t think we have had one for a while
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: i put it at teh end of the reports so theprincess has time to gather her thoughts
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve had no other comments on the draft agenda i published yesterday so i assume we’re okay with it?
MT Lundquist: k
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom: i am
Beathan Vale: Pat — I have not had a chance to read anything becuase of the lag — give me a sec
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thought i needed this maybe
Patroklus Murakami: it was published on the forums yesterday. i sent you a link by email beathan (and to all RA members)
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: we appreciate that so much pat
Beathan Vale: OK — I’m fine with the agenda under the old rules
Patroklus Murakami: okay, first of all reports. MT could you report on the commerce commission?
MT Lundquist: yes of course
MT Lundquist: we met for the third time yesterday
MT Lundquist: we looked at the items from the 2 previous sessions
MT Lundquist: namely the bainstorming output
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
MT Lundquist: and the walkround of the NFS and CN commercial districts
MT Lundquist: unfortunately there were only a few of us at the meeting yesterday – i know its hard to make all the commitments in sl and CDS
MT Lundquist: however we did take each item of the agenda as published on the forum
MT Lundquist: and had written input from from Jamie P
MT Lundquist: i will be publishing the minutes from the meeting early this week
MT Lundquist: and collecting the views expressed into a forum post for further comment
MT Lundquist: i do hope that people who are interested will be able to comment
MT Lundquist: as i fell we are getting closer to concrete propsals to bring to the RA
MT Lundquist: feel
Patroklus Murakami: thank you MT:) i hope that more ppl will join in on the forums or in the inworld meetings
MT Lundquist: ty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturdays… such a bad day for me 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
MT Lundquist: sorry gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: brian, could you fill us in on code reorganisation?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s ok, MT, it’s all my fault really)
Brian Livingston: Sure. This past meetign got postponed again (sorry folks) due to unexpected illness.However, I did post in the forum two new posts…
Brian Livingston: One of which is at: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1633
Brian Livingston: Which is a discussion post for those itnerested in Code Reorganization, as I realize tryign to get everyone in one place at the same time is close to impossible
Brian Livingston: I would certianly request and encourage anyoen with any thoughts regardign this process to please post them there.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s a miracle we’re ever online at the same time brian 🙂 i hope to help you with this but i’m finding it hard to find the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: if there is a meeting please let me know becuse i would go
Brian Livingston: Second Post was a request for meetign times for those itnerested so I can see if there is some way to find a suitable meeting point
Patroklus Murakami needs a way to know when brian is finished typing….
Sonja Strom: heehee
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Brian Livingston: Other than that, I will plan on beign in world this Wednesday at 5 PM, provided something heavy doesn’t fall on me
Cindy Ecksol suggests “How about ‘over’?”
Brian Livingston: And on that note, Thank you Chair 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re so practical, CIndy 😉
Patroklus Murakami: ty brian!
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could you cover election rules and RA process?
Beathan Vale: our inaugural meeting is today after the RA – I ask a interested persons to stay — in light of Jon’s comments on the forum, I particularly want members of the CSDF to stay — thank you LRA, that is all
Beathan Vale: on the process bill
Beathan Vale: I have received an incorporated many comments on the bil
Beathan Vale: including Pat’s proposed meeting procedures (alt 4)
Beathan Vale: however, i not that Pat has proposd substnatial additiona changes which I did not see unti this morning
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello valus
Valus Valiant: hello everibody
Valus Valiant: (slow rezzing)
Beathan Vale: I will be happy to explain each of the sections of my bill — man of which were proposed by others and some of which I oppose — but I will explain the reasons for the proposals as best I understand them
Leon Ash: Hi Valus
Patroklus Murakami: hi valus, pls take a seat 🙂
Beathan Vale: that is all by way of report rather than debate
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ty, I hope to be around for a bit afterwards too!
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, could you fill us in on progress on the guided tour?
ThePrincess? Parisi: Valus is a new resident of AM with the greatest ohouse .. welcome valus
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes indeed pat thank you very much
ThePrincess? Parisi: I am so gald you asked finally for a report sir, becuase i have needed to talk to you all and get some help / input
ThePrincess? Parisi: i wish i had more notice, but here it is
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guided tour committee met first to get an idea of the type of vehicle it would use and we went to several different ones and experiemented.. we decided that we needed to still look at some..
ThePrincess? Parisi: Symo built a wonderful vehicle for the tour that we are going to incorporate
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am waiting for points of interest from some volunteers.
ThePrincess? Parisi: Mizou, who is not here is in the process of writing a history of CDS that will a very critical and wonderful part of what the text will be if th eitem had been on the agenda i would have had her write a thing for us.
ThePrincess? Parisi: .. starting at NFS. She has met with Sudane and this is in process..
Beathan Vale: I think that you should use a “Duck” — WWII era amphibious personal carrier — they are cool
ThePrincess? Parisi: what kind of duck?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: duck duck goose for agenda items?
ThePrincess? Parisi: 1/ Points of interest of the tour 2/ the route 3/the vehicle to be used and
Cindy Ecksol thinks a duck is a great idea…
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok these things are what we have to determine
ThePrincess? Parisi: and these are what we have done already
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess, it would be nice if Mizou could also update http://slhistory.org, where some of the past history of the CDS was *started* (Caledon updates that wiki quite often!)
ThePrincess? Parisi: we will use symos vehicle and another smaller one as well we will have text that includes a full history of CDS we will engage a walking peice to the tour we will start at both CN and NFS the projected date to be installed is now.. april first.
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not done gwyneth, di dyu ask pat if you can talk hun?
Beathan Vale: http://www.ridetheducksofseattle.com/
ThePrincess? Parisi: the next meeting is wednesday at two sl time at CN . we will determine finally the points for the tour.. as the person who said they wanted to do this has not givent hat to me yet.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok what?
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh mizou has done that gwyen
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can i answer gywenteh
ThePrincess? Parisi: mizou has researched a lot of things for this, including the wiki.. if the item had been on the original agenda.. i woul d have a dtetailed report from mizou for us
ThePrincess? Parisi: did i crash
Sonja Strom: no
ThePrincess? Parisi: symo made a gorgeous vehicle for us
ThePrincess? Parisi: a volunteer who is not NUCARE
Patroklus Murakami: are you going to post something on the forums with the plans’ so far?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i can pat thank you
Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to see what has been planned so that more ppl can provide input
ThePrincess? Parisi: i did
Patroklus Murakami: i’m really excited to see how this works out, it should be good
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i got no input from the post
ThePrincess? Parisi: but i can do it again i guess
ThePrincess? Parisi: some ppl volunteered ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: symo ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: is he still here?
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks around….
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh he went.. i was gonna ask for his vehicle picture
ThePrincess? Parisi: what other advice do you have
Patroklus Murakami: have you worked out where the key points of the tour will be?
ThePrincess? Parisi: that is a thing i asked volunteers for .. and some promised, but i didnt get it.. i just wrote that on my talk pat
Sonja Strom: yes, she did say that a little bit ago.
Sonja Strom: thePrincess, which post are you talking about? Probably I have seen it, but I am not sure which one your mean.
ThePrincess? Parisi: so if i just pick them.. and post them.. i am sure ppl will then give the input about what is worng with it.. but is that a bad way to do that
Patroklus Murakami: okay, an update on progress when you have somethign substantial would be really useful. i think ppl will get more involved when they see the shape of it coming together
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have asked in the committee meetings and also i have posted.. i thought we posted it
ThePrincess? Parisi: do you think i dont have anything substatial yet? or should i post already
Sonja Strom: I just looked at the Forum again, and I don’t see what it is you seem to be talking about.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok let me look
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat is it substantial yet?
Patroklus Murakami: i think you’re probably best placed to judge that theprincess since you’re directly involved
Patroklus Murakami: but let’s move on
Sonja Strom: Welcome Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Justice 😀
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi justice
Justice Soothsayer: hi
Jon Seattle: Hi Justice 🙂
Leon Ash: Hi Justice
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 2 expansion parameters discussion
Valus Valiant: just a question: will be the vehicle only for a NFS tour? or for AM and CN too?
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s CDS wide valus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s start with one of them… and then make it CDS-wide
Patroklus Murakami: but let’s move on
Valus Valiant: so it must fit for he three sims
Valus Valiant: ok
Sonja Strom: right
Brian Livingston: Three + future
Patroklus Murakami: this item is held over from last week
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a thread on the forums to kick start the discussion
Moon Adamant listens
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll post a link to it in a minute
Patroklus Murakami: here’s a link to the regional masterplan http://neufreistadt.info/images/Masterplan/masterplan_topography_copy.jpg
Valus Valiant: sorry, but I’m seldom here, so it’s a little hard for me to follow the topics
Patroklus Murakami: forum discussion is here http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628
Patroklus Murakami: I suggest we take the questions we need to answer in order but first i have a handling issue i’d like to raise with the RA
Patroklus Murakami: we have a lot on the agenda today so…
Sonja Strom: it’s ok – there is a lot to follow Valus. just have fun with it. If you want more information about what is happening it is usually good to follow recent posts in the CDS forum.
Patroklus Murakami: we could keep going on this issue for as long as possible to make progress
Patroklus Murakami: but that risks being the only topic we discuss
Sonja Strom: true Pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then we would have people complaining about the lack of issues being addressed at the RA today 😉
Patroklus Murakami: or we could limit the discussion to 30 mins so we have time for the other agenda items too
Sonja Strom: hehee
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to see RA members views
Beathan Vale: that is a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: i) carry on til we finish or
Patroklus Murakami: ii) limit this item to 30 mins
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we decide after ten minutes
Beathan Vale: 30 minutes — this is best a forum discussion rather than an RA iscussion anyway
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets not say ahead of time
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats my vuew
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello is anyone in open
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Sonja Strom: I agree- talk for 10 minutes and see how much detail we get into, then decide how important it is to us to continue talking about it here.
Brian Livingston: It seems that if we have to pcik up agin partway through, it’s going to simply reopen any decisions we had made in this session. Hmm
Patroklus Murakami: other views?
Sonja Strom: Brian, we could move those discussions to the Forum.
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you sonjaits 12 45 .. go
Sonja Strom: We could agree to continue talking about the detail in the Forum.
Patroklus Murakami: leon and MT have not yet spoken
MT Lundquist: lets start
MT Lundquist: i agree with sonja
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is the frist issue to talk about
Leon Ash: I’d prefer to keep the time allocated to this discussion limited.
Cindy Ecksol: me thinks it’s about time the clock was started….
Leon Ash: If we allocsate a maximum of 30 minutes that is fine by me
Patroklus Murakami: well, it seems the majority wish to press on for ten minutes and then reassess so let’s begin
Patroklus Murakami: first question is: should we exand? if so, by how many sims and where?
ThePrincess? Parisi: its 1247\
Beathan Vale: my views are on the forums
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes and one frist
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes we expand.. and we need to do one at a time..
ThePrincess? Parisi: so do one then anohter
Sonja Strom: I think it would be best to expand near CN first.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and reassess each one at a time
Sonja Strom: and I agree with ThePrincess? about having one new sim at a time.
Sonja Strom: Is there any reason to buy two at once?
Beathan Vale: Iwant one high density residential and one commercial sim (or maybe commercial/tenement)
Cindy Ecksol thinks we don’t have the human resources to do two at a time
ThePrincess? Parisi: so the high density residential sims first
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that right
Sonja Strom thinks Cindy is right
ThePrincess? Parisi: so next item.. we said… yes we build and we build one
Beathan Vale: true – but we can plan two now — then we will always have one planned so we can move onto the next one without downtime
Sonja Strom: I would prefere more residential first
MT Lundquist: i like the idea of sequential development
Gwyneth Llewelyn kicks Beathan
Patroklus Murakami: hold on, we haven’t decided that yet
MT Lundquist: and residential first
MT Lundquist: so that CDS grows its citzen base
Moon Adamant: sorry, weren’t we discussing if we were going to expand first of all?
Beathan Vale: I think that we should plan two, build one, then plan a third while builind the second, so we have an efficient process
Leon Ash: 1 sim at a time is preferable and definately residential for me 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan would it slow us down if we plan two
ThePrincess? Parisi: we all do moon its moot its on our manifestos
MT Lundquist: i agree with beathan
MT Lundquist: that seems sensible
Patroklus Murakami: is it really that hard to do two at once? surely it depends on the design?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this time it’s for population growth and not territory?
Moon Adamant: welll, the LRA has made taht question
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have empty commerical space and open space now
Cindy Ecksol thinks we could plan two if they were adjoining and the concept were the same, but build one at a time
ThePrincess? Parisi: why build that ?
Moon Adamant: so he should get an answer, right?
Sonja Strom: Moon, I think we have talked about it enough that the RA has consensus on adding at least one new sim.
ThePrincess? Parisi: the budget sudane said last week was that we can do ONE
Patroklus Murakami: is everyone in favour of expansion? i know some citizens are not
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets vote on that now pat
Beathan Vale: yes — we can build one — but we canplan 2
ThePrincess? Parisi: i make a motion we vote to whether or not expand or not
Beathan Vale: then we won’t have downtime planning if we have the deire and resources to move forward with additional explansion
Beathan Vale: second
Sonja Strom: I have consulted with the DPU membership, and every member wanted a new sim.
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, pls allow me to chair the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: so does Nucares sonja
ThePrincess? Parisi: i cannot make motions? hmm?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am sorry i thought i can
ThePrincess? Parisi: you have a motion on the table pat
Patroklus Murakami: brb phone
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
Sonja Strom: lol
MT Lundquist: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sonja Strom: do gargoyles have phones now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well…
Cindy Ecksol wonders if the meeting gets extended by the time the LRA spends on the phone during the meeting…
Brian Livingston: I always pictured them as more foa text messaging species
Justice Soothsayer: must be the batphone
Sonja Strom: there goes our ten minutes!
Beathan Vale: we definitely need a set of rules that alows motions from the floor rather than have the entire meetings, right down to motions, governed and determined by the LRA – that is what i ca “autocratic”
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh the bat phone
Sonja Strom: Justice *lol*
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thought we could, its the first i ever even did..
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am shy
ThePrincess? Parisi: i guess he liked me better silent and beautiful
Patroklus Murakami: sorry bout that
Patroklus Murakami: scrolling back…
ThePrincess? Parisi: three mintues.. dont do it
ThePrincess? Parisi: dont read back
Leon Ash: I never imagined you as shy ThePrincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am in rl leon
Sonja Strom: heehee me either
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i was last term .. no
ThePrincess? Parisi: 😉
Sonja Strom: it won’t take him long to read
Leon Ash: The first time I met you in a meeting you wanted to spank someone? Can’t remember how and you had the ruler out already? :-))
Patroklus Murakami: right
ThePrincess? Parisi: well gwyneth has a sword leon
Patroklus Murakami: i take the sense of the RA that the consensus is to expand by one sim?
ThePrincess? Parisi: sword trumps ruler
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously any RA member (or even any citizen) can submit a bill for a vote, but it’s up to the LRA to accept to put it into the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Princess
MT Lundquist: yes
MT Lundquist: expand one at a time
Sonja Strom: Maybe we could write up what we want as a specific bill, and then pass that.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think our ten minutes are up.
Patroklus Murakami: can i just press you on that though?
Patroklus Murakami: what if there’s enough demand for two?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Market analysis!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and what if we had the resources to develop both at the same time?
ThePrincess? Parisi: then we build another one
ThePrincess? Parisi: after the one we build fills up
Patroklus Murakami: why wouldn’t we do that?
Sonja Strom: Then we finish one and begin the 2nd right away!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay for more sims 😀
ThePrincess? Parisi: there is no market ananlysis that is accurate
ThePrincess? Parisi: any thing can happen ask beathan
Leon Ash: brb
Cindy Ecksol thinks this is all pretty self-evident
Patroklus Murakami: isn’t that more work though? one and then another?
ThePrincess? Parisi: you cannot find out what the future is
Sonja Strom: Is there any reason why creating 2 at once is better?
Moon Adamant: well, could a market analysis be done?
Brian Livingston: We don’t have the resources just yet for 2, if I recall Sudane’s budget discussion…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well, but you can establish trends 😉
Beathan Vale: yes — but planning is cheap
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think a market analysis is a waste of resources
Patroklus Murakami: oh we do brian 🙂
MT Lundquist: yes sudane spelled it out
Beathan Vale: plan 2 — build 1
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes beathean..
Beathan Vale: in fact, we can decide which of the 2 to buid after they are planned
Patroklus Murakami: indeed beathan. we lose nothing by planning two
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we have two sims with the same sims or not
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guild cannot go forward til they know which one
Patroklus Murakami: even if we end up only being cautious and going for one more
Cindy Ecksol wonders if those who are advocating two are thinking “same theme” or “different themes”
MT Lundquist: i would want to see residential first
ThePrincess? Parisi: we cannot plan two it will only slow us down
Beathan Vale: I want to see expandd residences — but the Commerce Committee might trump that if it determines that immediately commercial expansion and centralization is needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good question, Cindy!
ThePrincess? Parisi: MOON IS IT TRUE THE GUILD CANNOT GO FORWARD WITH OUT KNOWING THE THEME?
MT Lundquist: we need more citizens if \CDS is to thrive
Moon Adamant: to answer Princess
Sonja Strom: I think we should take this conversation outside of this room and moment. We can discuss these things in the Forum and so on – – work on creating a detailed document we can pass, and then vote on that.
Moon Adamant: and if you will excuse me
Patroklus Murakami: oh i’m thinking different themes. i’d like to expand NFS and CN by one sim each
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree pat
Beathan Vale: I agree with Pat
Moon Adamant: the Guild can’t do a thing with the discussion as it is at this moment
Sonja Strom: Right
Moon Adamant: we will need organized info
Patroklus Murakami: sonja, i think this is part of the discussion though
Beathan Vale: I agree with Moon too
Moon Adamant: organized specs
ThePrincess? Parisi: MOON, DOES THE GUILD NEED A THEME TO MOVE FORWARD
Cindy Ecksol thinks that planning is the hard part — should spend at least 4 times as much time planning as building.
Moon Adamant: it depends
Moon Adamant: you tell me that 🙂
Sonja Strom: Of course it is part of the discussion, but to reach a resolution will take time.
ThePrincess? Parisi: I MOVE MOON HAS THE FLOOR.. WHAT DOES THE GUILD NEED TO MOVE FORWARD
Beathan Vale: TP– the Guid needs more than that — a theme, plus specifications
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, could you turn caps off?
ThePrincess? Parisi: may moon tell us
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
Beathan Vale: lot sizes — densities — type of lots
Moon Adamant: The Guild needs to know
Moon Adamant: first of all, which sim on the grid to develop – that choice may imply or may cause to imply also teh choice of theme
Sonja Strom: Moon, would you rather have us talk with you now, or talk with each other and arrive at some consensus to give you?
Moon Adamant: then the Guild needs to know things like min-max number of residents, min-max size of plots… it can also be a political discussion to say how much of each
Moon Adamant: it surely became so at last time
Moon Adamant: then things like what is the percentage of public space
Moon Adamant: if any infrastructure should be present…. say you want to create hmmm the Opera of Sydney, to give a completely irrelvant example
Leon Ash: back and you’ve been busy 🙂
Moon Adamant: And to answer sonja
Moon Adamant: it’s the same to me as you prefer to make teh discussion
Moon Adamant: i may though ask for further input as you give the Guild data
ThePrincess? Parisi: moon, can i clarify, that th eguild cannot go forward until you know which location to build in/ which sim space.. and there fore theme?
Patroklus Murakami: ty moon 🙂 we’ve been discussing this for more than ten mins now
Patroklus Murakami: so let’s decide whether to carry on or now
Sonja Strom: I think we should continue on a bit longer, especially to answer thePrincess’ question.
Patroklus Murakami: we could spend the rest of the meeting on this one item. or stop in another twenty minutes. or stop now and move on
ThePrincess? Parisi: as i said i say we vote on whether …….and which place to tell the guild, waiting another week will only stall
Patroklus Murakami: what would RA members like to do?
Moon Adamant is waiting for the RA to speak
ThePrincess? Parisi: no .. not another twenty
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guild is waiting on us to go forward with the sim, your voters think you all want a new sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: stalling is not what your manifestos said you would do
Sonja Strom: Please Moon, give us your answer to ThePrincess’ question.
Moon Adamant: The guild considers that the choice of themes or location is a political decision
Leon Ash: Who’s stalling ThePrincess? We are all in agreement about expanding it seems?
Moon Adamant: and thus, does not concern teh Guild
Moon Adamant: as an example
ThePrincess? Parisi: and what sim space ?
Moon Adamant: you may decide to expand population….
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets just vote now
Moon Adamant: then for instance something like CN or NFS would be a good choice… lots of houses…
Sonja Strom: vote on what?
ThePrincess? Parisi: where to put the next sim
Moon Adamant: you may decide to expand territory…. then something like AM… even voids
ThePrincess? Parisi: so the guild can move forward
Brian Livingston: There is still a lot that needs to be decided and given that we’ve now spent 15 minutes on the first part of he first point, I don’t see this whole item getting resolved today.
Patroklus Murakami: vote on what? we need to tell the New Guild which squares to develop next
Moon Adamant: so it’s really the political decision of teh RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guild only needs part to go forward.. not everything
Patroklus Murakami: and we still have not decided how to handle this item so can we resolve that first?
Sonja Strom: Well, I guess we could decide where we would like the new sim to go…
ThePrincess? Parisi: we could vote we only have afew choices
Moon Adamant: Welll, the Guild isn’t stopped 🙂
Sonja Strom: I don’t know if that is so important to resolve today, but I am not against our talking about that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Patroklus Murakami: okay, i propose we continue to discuss this item, including any votes for the next twenty minutes. agreed?
Cindy Ecksol thinkks that there’s a motion on the table and a second
Sonja Strom: I agree Pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: i propose we atach the next sim to CN
MT Lundquist: agree
MT Lundquist: second the cn proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just ask “why”? (I’m neither agreeing not disagreeing)
Patroklus Murakami: hold on MT
Cindy Ecksol thinks “why not?”
MT Lundquist: is there an alternative
ThePrincess? Parisi: because we have a lot of empty space in the forum that needs to have more traffic and has the ……..infrastructiure already
Moon Adamant: there’s 16 of them 🙂
MT Lundquist: proposal?
Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, my reason why is described in a few posts about this in the Forum.
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objections, we’ll continue this item for 20 mins
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol CIndy ? what I mean is, assuming the whole lot of alternatives, is there a rational choice for an expansion of CN, or is it just an emotional one?
Sonja Strom: I can go into the detail of that if people would like to know.
ThePrincess? Parisi: one.. Roman is popular
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: two.. we have empty infrastructure
ThePrincess? Parisi: three: it will sell FAST
ThePrincess? Parisi: four.. the vendor spaces will fill up with vendor things
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sounds good.
Sonja Strom: I don’t like the way the CDS Master Plan is designed to the east and south of NFS.
Patroklus Murakami: and the evidence for these assertions is…?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: go to roman empire and roma
ThePrincess? Parisi: they are packedBeathan Vale: I propose athat we plan 2 sims — one a Roman market to the east of CN and the other a residential sim based on Mozart’s Esterhazi to the east of NF — minimal public space (road and an Opera house) — Guild to pan and presetn both proposals – RA to determine which to move forward on after presentation
Sonja Strom: So if a new sim goes in near CN, that gives us more time to talk about the area I am concerned about.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and there are NOT enough residential lots there
Moon Adamant: well, Sonja, masterplan will be in review soon
ThePrincess? Parisi: and CN ilots that exist sell fast
Beathan Vale: Esterhazi to be set up as high density residential
Sonja Strom: Beathan, I would want to know more about your idea for east of NFS before voting on it.
Sonja Strom: Maybe I would like it, but I’m not yet certain because I haven’t looked at it.
Bromo Ivory: I may know of a SIM that we could buy off of a friend inexpensively.
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh bromo?
Bromo Ivory: IN a couple of months
Sonja Strom: Bromo, really?
Bromo Ivory: Yes
Leon Ash: FWIW, I’d like more information and consistency on all the recommendation so far!?
ThePrincess? Parisi: wow
Patroklus Murakami: TP, is your proposal for an extension to CN to the E or W?
Sonja Strom: oh, well, we can talk more about that at that time I guess…
Leon Ash: Everyone seems to agree on expansion, but ‘everyone’ is saying something different?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok leon i can get that……….by the gelato
Patroklus Murakami: yes leon 🙂 confusion reigns
ThePrincess? Parisi: and either is ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we need new RA rules then?
Leon Ash: I don’t know about you all, but maybe we should trash this one out on the forums?
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we move on pat?
ThePrincess? Parisi: agree leon
Beathan Vale: Leon — I agree
MT Lundquist: agreed leon
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could we strip out the detail of your proposal and make it one to the E of CN and one to the E of NFS?
Brian Livingston: agreed
Beathan Vale: Pat — yes
Leon Ash: good suggestion Pat.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m just trying to clarify theprincess so we have clear proposals to vote on
Sonja Strom: Is anyone against the new sim being next to CN?
Moon Adamant: may i do a proposal?
Patroklus Murakami: go ahead moon
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes moon
Beathan Vale: Sonja — depends on theme
Moon Adamant: for your subsequent discussions, perhaps it coudl be useful if you could itemize
Moon Adamant: that would make it easier to compare proposals, if all proposals answered teh same questions
Sonja Strom: Is anyone against continuing a Roman theme on a sim next to CN?
MT Lundquist: no
ThePrincess? Parisi: no
MT Lundquist: i’d be happy with that
Sonja Strom: me too
Leon Ash: Sonja. I’m not against it, but would prefer to see NFS expanded first 🙂
Beathan Vale: I would rather see two sim proposals – one to expand CN and one to expland NFS — and decide between them
Naftali Torok: sofly sneeks in , and say hello to everybody…….?’
Sonja Strom: hi Nafti
Leon Ash: Hi Naftali
Patroklus Murakami: okay. let’s vote on those two options
Naftali Torok: so rry i am late
Patroklus Murakami: i will summarise the choices…
Patroklus Murakami: Option 1: a sim to the E of CN
Sonja Strom: We know that we will want a theme appropriate to CN next to it, and one appropriate to NFS next to it, so….
Patroklus Murakami: Option 2: one sim to the E of CN and one to the E of NFS
Sonja Strom: I don’t see much reason to compare an extension of CN versus and extension of NFS.
Beathan Vale: Pat — proposed and designed — but not build simultaneously
Patroklus Murakami: in both cases we are talking about the next step in the development of a plan, *not* agreeing to build them
Patroklus Murakami: yes beathan
Bromo Ivory thinks planning both – and then putting it up for vote?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we l agreed to build one i thought
Moon Adamant: may i speak again?
Patroklus Murakami: go on moon
Moon Adamant: since this discussion isn’t really going further than themes
Beathan Vale: Moon — I had very specific proposals beyond theme — Esterhazi and Roman open air market with tenements
Moon Adamant: i would like to remember this RA that the public contest that decided for AM also created a plan called Nea Hora
Moon Adamant: which would introduce a third theme
Beathan Vale:

nod

Beathan Vale: we should consider putting that to the South of NFS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
Beathan Vale: because it was designed to even the NFS terrain
Moon Adamant: My reason to mention this is is first for fairness, and also to make notice that the inclusion of the Nea Hora theme will need a revision to the masterplan
Leon Ash: Sounds like a sound idea Beathan 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i have taken the general mood as being that we should expand an existing theme rather than develop a new one. is there anyone who wants to object to that interpretation?
Sonja Strom: I agree Pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: does it have to happen now moon? can that be next after these?
Leon Ash: No Pat, no objection
MT Lundquist: as we all itend rapid development and expansion i agree that we should expand existing thems
Beathan Vale: Pat — I would rather move forward with Neo Hora ASAP — as it is aready partly designed
MT Lundquist: so no objection
Beathan Vale: but — if I am outvoted, I will be a team player
Patroklus Murakami: but i agree with moon that we should consider it and i’m grateful to her for reminding us of that
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: so, Option 3 is to develop Neo Hora somewhere to teh S of NFS
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move to a vote
Leon Ash: second
Patroklus Murakami: i need to explain it a bit first
Patroklus Murakami: the three options are not mutually exclusive
Patroklus Murakami: so we can agree to 1 and 2 for example
Patroklus Murakami: but a vote for option 3 is a vote to do Neo Hora next (and not CN or NFS)
Patroklus Murakami: is that clear and accepted?
Sonja Strom: yes
Beathan Vale: yes
MT Lundquist: yes
Leon Ash: yes
Brian Livingston: yes
Patroklus Murakami: okay, Option 1: a sim to the E of CN. pls vote aye or nay
Beathan Vale: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain
Patroklus Murakami: okay, that carries
Patroklus Murakami: now option 2
Beathan Vale: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: Option 2: one sim to the E of CN and one to the E of NFS
Sonja Strom: nay
Patroklus Murakami: aye
MT Lundquist: nay
Brian Livingston: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
Sonja Strom: LOL
ThePrincess? Parisi: no i m sorry
Patroklus Murakami: well, that falls as it did not a majority
ThePrincess? Parisi: that was a cut and paste
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
Patroklus Murakami: did not get*
Patroklus Murakami: how did you intend to vote TP?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i misunderstaond
ThePrincess? Parisi: wait .. i need to understand .. did you say that if one is yes.. that we do the CN sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: an dif two is yes we also plan the nfs sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: so if i vote aye then we also plan nfs
Beathan Vale: yes — 2 is plan 2 sim expansions -b- ut only build 1 right nor
Beathan Vale: now even
ThePrincess? Parisi: is …………. i meant to vote nay
Sonja Strom: oh, I thought it was to build both sims
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: eventually sonja but not first
Patroklus Murakami: it was to plan both sims
Patroklus Murakami: but no matter, it did not passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: *did not pass
Bromo Ivory: Sounds liek the RA memebrs didn’t know what they were voting on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Beathan Vale: Bromo — par for the course
Beathan Vale: I wonder waht the SC would do if the vote were refered to them (RA members voted, but did not know waht they were voting on) — lol
Patroklus Murakami: well, i try to explain what’s going on but it can be confusing. ppl need to pay attention
ThePrincess? Parisi: i understand
Bromo Ivory: If they were smart – back away from the table
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry
Patroklus Murakami: now, option 3
Beathan Vale: yep — I agree Pat
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
Sonja Strom: I just looked back at the chat, and it did not seem to specify plan or build – in either case my vote would probably have been the same right now.
Patroklus Murakami: Option 3 is to develop Neo Hora somewhere to teh S of NFS
Sonja Strom: nay
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: devlop? or plan now?
Patroklus Murakami: but a vote for option 3 is a vote to do Neo Hora next (and not CN or NFS)
ThePrincess? Parisi: you mean to plan now and then develop
Beathan Vale: I think a plan is in place
Patroklus Murakami: plan first and develop
Brian Livingston: nay
Beathan Vale: just needs specific design from the Guild
Patroklus Murakami: do it before CN in other words
Sonja Strom: Beathan, I think in that you are incorrect.
Patroklus Murakami: we’re in the middle of a vote
Sonja Strom: Neo Hora was an idea for near CN I thought.
Patroklus Murakami: could i have your votes on option three pls
Beathan Vale: again — aye
Sonja Strom: I voted nay
Patroklus Murakami: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
Leon Ash votes again and it is still aye
Brian Livingston: nay
MT Lundquist: nay
Patroklus Murakami: that falls
Beathan Vale: OK — expansion to E of CN
Patroklus Murakami: ok, we’re beyond time on that item
Beathan Vale: can we vote now for high density residential focus
Patroklus Murakami: we have agreed on expansion to the E of CN but there is still a lot to decide
Beathan Vale: maybe with some set aside for Commerce Committee proposal use
MT Lundquist: second
Patroklus Murakami: hold on a minute
ThePrincess? Parisi: chat lag MT
MT Lundquist: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Beathan, just as a guideline ? what would “high-density” mean, 30+ residential plots?)
ThePrincess? Parisi: he didnt second adding commerce
Patroklus Murakami: we decided to call an end at half past. now you want to carry on? which is it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets leave it up to beathan its his bill
ThePrincess? Parisi: i say we go to the next bill
Beathan Vale: 30 to 50 I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, thank you
ThePrincess? Parisi: moving on ……………please sir LRA
Beathan Vale: No — I think we should wrap this up
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathans bill
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: can a demon be a sir?
Beathan Vale: Frankly, before we consdier the Proces biu, I want to incorporate Pat’s late changes — and to analyse this meetings to show how needed my bill is
Sonja Strom: heehee
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ..
MT Lundquist: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: at 50 how many lots, what size bethan?
Beathan Vale: I would like to see 512s and double prim 256s aqs proposed ont he forums
ThePrincess? Parisi: and we dont need commercial cos there is already empty unused commercial spaces
Beathan Vale: also — I would like to have a Roman tenement structure — shared building
ThePrincess? Parisi: open maybe a roman opera house
Beathan Vale: some atrium areas, etc.
Moon Adamant: may i
Beathan Vale: No — I want the Opera house to be paqrt of NFS expansion
ThePrincess? Parisi: how about the .. kind that they had.. ? with a shop in front with a house in the back or on top
Patroklus Murakami: sorry about that
Beathan Vale: please Moon
Patroklus Murakami: scrolling back…
Moon Adamant: if you consider a max of 20% public space, the average size for 50 lots is around the 1000 m2
Beathan Vale: your input is critical here — Moon
Beathan Vale: feel free to jump in
Beathan Vale: in fact, I move the RA to allow Moon full participation in this meeting
Moon Adamant: i always have a calculator close by 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: e second
MT Lundquist: i’m happy with 50
Sonja Strom: I agree
Patroklus Murakami: moon’s advice is invaluable and very welcome
Leon Ash: Agree on that, but think that some areas have to be larger than 1000? Then some have to be very small?
Patroklus Murakami: are ppl proposing 50 lots in the new sim? how does that compare with CN and NFS?
Moon Adamant: well, then you can play with numbers
Moon Adamant: make some smaller, some larger
Beathan Vale: Pat — 50 residential lots — I want additional commercial lots
Moon Adamant: mind that as you need to access more plots, you have to have more roads
Moon Adamant: so we possibly will never be able to reach down the 10% public space
Beathan Vale: Moon – not if the lots are all part of a single tenement building
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Building? ^^
ThePrincess? Parisi: eww
Patroklus Murakami: did the romans have tenemant blocks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, insulas .D
ThePrincess? Parisi: ppl wanna build their own house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… the issue is aboutland ownership
Beathan Vale: Oh yes — most Romans lived in tenements
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (exactly, Princess)
Patroklus Murakami: a barracks perhaps?
ThePrincess? Parisi: so some maybe built but some not
Moon Adamant: yes, insuale
Beathan Vale: very authentic — and underbuilt in Roman themed sims in SL
Moon Adamant: the main issues about communal residences is allotment of prims and prim returns
Patroklus Murakami: i meant tower blocks. 20 stories high?
Moon Adamant is doing one just now, or should be doing
ThePrincess? Parisi: go pat!!!
Beathan Vale: no — but 5 to 8 stories
Symo Kurka: insulae were a real hell
ThePrincess? Parisi: well lets do a thing ppl will buy
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we sell land that has built UP?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we cant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can’t indeed.
Cindy Ecksol thinks this is getting pretty silly….
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we cannot have towers or more than one store
Moon Adamant: also, media assignment is by parcel… though some tricks can be made
ThePrincess? Parisi: story
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just, well, rent… and that means changing a LOT of legislation.
ThePrincess? Parisi: well lets make it simple.. mr. SC
Moon Adamant: also, not sure of something
ThePrincess? Parisi: SP..
MT Lundquist: why not work on 1024 plots with road infrastructure
Moon Adamant: btw, this is not a ‘refusal’, mind, just thiunking aloud
Moon Adamant: tier payment sys
Moon Adamant: i don’t know how it works, i mean how it REFERS to the property
Beathan Vale: yes — assume 1024 lots would work
Sonja Strom: a member of the RA is flying in the Assembly Room
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi grabs beathans shoestriing
Beathan Vale: sorry
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: why do ppl think that small lots will be popular? who is the target market?
ThePrincess? Parisi: people who thought they wanted to buy here but we are too expensive
MT Lundquist: it was dine in roma suburraa
Sonja Strom: Thanks MT, we could have a look at that project.
MT Lundquist: and they were sold out
ThePrincess? Parisi: stay sold
MT Lundquist: done
Moon Adamant: a mix of plot sizes was considered advisable in AM
Beathan Vale: Most folks want cheaper lots
Patroklus Murakami: but many ppl find small lots too restricting. we have had that experience in NFS
Moon Adamant: and AM has only one plot for sale ATM
ThePrincess? Parisi: not tooooo small
Beathan Vale: Moon — yes — so we have a sim with a mix — let’s do something differnt next
ThePrincess? Parisi: what mix is best moon?
Moon Adamant: lol, i dunno
Symo Kurka: small plots and small shops are not apealing
ThePrincess? Parisi: no smaller than 512
ThePrincess? Parisi: and no larger than 1024
ThePrincess? Parisi: hows that for a mix
Moon Adamant: i think smll plots are very ahrd to live in
Beathan Vale: true
ThePrincess? Parisi: and maybe we can let ppl join
Moon Adamant: but… they force people to upgrade
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (but they’re ok for shops…)
ThePrincess? Parisi: no more than two
Beathan Vale: Moon — exactly
Moon Adamant: which is also good from a commercial pov
Symo Kurka: nobody would visiy a small shop in SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, not on a residential sim…
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just had two plots cos i wanted more
Patroklus Murakami: but we have nothing for them to upgrade to!
Beathan Vale: entry level plots — bring in new citizens — who would then upgrade to largerlots
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok so the lot size being two small
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes they get two plots
Beathan Vale: when the new sims are built —
ThePrincess? Parisi: my garden in CN is two lots
Beathan Vale: are are not going to stop at 4
Moon Adamant: but what i ask is
ThePrincess? Parisi: arun has two lots
ThePrincess? Parisi: come on
ThePrincess? Parisi: get real
Moon Adamant: isn’t NFS already an ‘entrance’ sim?
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, who here lives on less than 1042?
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is for sale in NFS.. NOTHING
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do!
Patroklus Murakami: most ppl upgrade after a while and want bigger lots
Sonja Strom: True
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a place that is smaller.. several
Brian Livingston: My home is, but I think I own about that…
ThePrincess? Parisi: and so is bromos
Patroklus Murakami: so a mix makes more sense to me
ThePrincess? Parisi: and so is cindys
ThePrincess? Parisi: and so is.. /
Moon Adamant: but in AM, right?
Moon Adamant: which is double sim
Beathan Vale: Pat — who can — what kind of lots are available at thse small size?
Moon Adamant: prim*
Brian Livingston: NFS
Sonja Strom: ThePrincess?, but I think that is partly because we are smaller than the potential demand right now.
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess you have lots more than 1024. you just said so
MT Lundquist: and future sims can give larger sizes
ThePrincess? Parisi: no smaller than 512
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a half sim.. so what
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have small lots too
Leon Ash: Sorry everyone, but it is time for me to call it a night. I thought these meetings were only an hour, but were heading fior two now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *finally* understands why some of you are proposing two sims at the same time; one with small plots, one with large ones, so that people can be drawn to the small-plot ones, and then upgrade to the large plots.
ThePrincess? Parisi: night leon
Patroklus Murakami: well, my point is that we need a mix
Beathan Vale: yes — we are headed for 2 hour meetings as a rule
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am not bilding the sim for ME
Brian Livingston: I do need to get going shortly as well…
Moon Adamant: uh
Patroklus Murakami: yes gwyn, that’s what i had in mind
Beathan Vale: Pat — i don’t think we need or even want a mix
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sorry, I’m slow sometimes.
Moon Adamant: mind that we had a big diiscussion about that
Patroklus Murakami: but we lost that already… 🙁
Leon Ash: Night all
ThePrincess? Parisi: im buiolding it for ppl who want to be in CDS but cannot get here nwo cos …WE HAVE NOTHING FOR SALE
ThePrincess? Parisi: IF WE BUILD IT THEY WILL BUY
Beathan Vale: we want interesting thematic architecture — not necessarily mixed ots sizes or odd plot layouts
Moon Adamant: that kind of different characters sims
Patroklus Murakami: bye leon 🙂
Sonja Strom: bye Leon
Beathan Vale: ‘night Leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: size doenst matter.. they can buy more lots
MT Lundquist: can we have a vote on the proposal of 512 to 1024 plot sizes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Princess ? I’m an expansionist myself, but I’ll remain silent for now 😀
MT Lundquist: bye leon
Moon Adamant: hmm, Princess, mind that covenants generally have an imposition on max number of properties
Patroklus Murakami: what is the proposal? we need somethign precise to vote on
Cindy Ecksol thinks that if we do small plots mix on this expansion, the next one could be larger lots
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes at what? more than 512?
Beathan Vale: so — TP -it’s not size that matter, but how you use it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and one can have a group
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol.. beathan.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok thats true beathan it really is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Beathan!
ThePrincess? Parisi: we dont need double prim this time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not with 30-50 plots…
ThePrincess? Parisi: nope .. so .. is 512 too small?
MT Lundquist: the proposal is that the next sim is planned usint plot sizes of 512 and 1024
MT Lundquist: does that help pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan can you sell 512s on mainland?
ThePrincess? Parisi: tell me beathan?
Beathan Vale: yes — easiest size to sell
Patroklus Murakami: yes MT. but how many? roughly?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok end of
Beathan Vale: larger lots are harder
ThePrincess? Parisi: moving on
MT Lundquist: 50
Beathan Vale: I can flip a 512 in 24 hours
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan .. move on pat
Beathan Vale: a 8096 can take 1-2 months
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too
ThePrincess? Parisi: so next .. smallest 512
Moon Adamant: sorry guys, i must really be going
Moon Adamant: thank you all 🙂
MT Lundquist: bye moon
Beathan Vale: goodnight Moon
Sonja Strom: Thanks Moon, see you.
ThePrincess? Parisi: next .. largest is 1024
Brian Livingston: Thanks moon
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you moon
Patroklus Murakami: okay. let’s take that proposal and vote on it. i will summarise
Patroklus Murakami: bye moon 🙂
Beathan Vale: brb
Patroklus Murakami: so, the proposal is that the new sim has a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
MT Lundquist: ok
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to make an alternative proposal
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: my proposal is to have about 20-30 plots of various sizes ranging from 144m2 to 2048m2
Sonja Strom: Why do you make that proposal, Patroklus?
Beathan Vale: Pat — match does not work
ThePrincess? Parisi: if NFS has totourble with this small of a lot, why do that again
Beathan Vale: math I mean
ThePrincess? Parisi: no prim land
ThePrincess? Parisi: that wont work will it? what aqre you thinking? i dont understand
Patroklus Murakami: why does that not work beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we wont have prim land in this sim
Patroklus Murakami: i haven’t said 20X2048
ThePrincess? Parisi: how many prims are in 144?
Beathan Vale: a sim is 65536 meters so it has 129512 lots
Beathan Vale: 128 512s I mean
Patroklus Murakami: and?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In 144? Hmm… just 30-40 or so
ThePrincess? Parisi: 32 o……lol.. 32prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, probably only 32 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: its 32 gwuenth
MT Lundquist: what can you do with 32 prims
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am sorry no one can live on that can they?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes, probably
ThePrincess? Parisi: or can the use cake for prims
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not the point theprincess. it’s an entry point for new citizens
ThePrincess? Parisi: well ok lets vote on yours or this
Beathan Vale: people can easily live on a 1024 — many peope do live on 512s
Patroklus Murakami: and the point of having a range of plot sizes is to provide some diversity
Cindy Ecksol thinks that it’s crazy to have more than one motion on the table at the same time!!!
Patroklus Murakami: some ppl will want to have more space
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can we vote?
Beathan Vale: that is why I favor 50 1024s with the rest for roads and gardens
ThePrincess? Parisi: we undestand
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok beathan.. sounds good
MT Lundquist: i would like to vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with beathan
Patroklus Murakami: okay, let me explain the vote. i was in the middle of it before
ThePrincess? Parisi: what about beathans
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, are you making a third proposal?
Beathan Vale: yes
Beathan Vale: 50 1024s — mixed residential and commercial — with rest set aside for public space (esp gardens)
Patroklus Murakami: okay, bear with me while i try to summarise. it’s complicated and i don’t want anyone to make a mistake
ThePrincess? Parisi: ty
Patroklus Murakami: the three proposals are mutually exclusive. so, if one passes the others automatically fall

Cindy Ecksol thinks that’s completely insane as a procedural matter….
Patroklus Murakami: Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total
Sonja Strom: lol
Beathan Vale: I think we should vote iteratively
Beathan Vale: top two go forward to a head to head vote
Patroklus Murakami: go on beathan
Beathan Vale: low vote fails
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Patroklus Murakami: though i warn you we are already beyond our time
ThePrincess? Parisi: agree beathan
MT Lundquist: that sounds good
ThePrincess? Parisi: time shime
Sonja Strom: I can stay longer
ThePrincess? Parisi: no one is leaving
Brian Livingston: I can’t really…
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh bri
Brian Livingston: I have another committment that I am goign to be late for if I don’t leave in probably 5 mintues
ThePrincess? Parisi: hes sick..i forgot
Patroklus Murakami: neither can I so let’s get on, shall we?
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a motion
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll take beathan’s suggestion
Sonja Strom: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry forget what i siad
Patroklus Murakami: Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total
Patroklus Murakami: Option 2: 20-30 plots of various sizes ranging from 144m2 to 2048m2
Beathan Vale: aye on 1 — nay on 2 — aye on 3
Patroklus Murakami: Option 3: 50 1024s
MT Lundquist: 1 aye 2 nay 3 aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan 🙂 could others follow his voting model?
Brian Livingston: aye on 1, aye on 2, nay on 3
Sonja Strom: 1 aye 2 nay 3 aye
Patroklus Murakami: 1 nay 2 aye 3 nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 1 .. nay 2… aye
Beathan Vale: lol — I think we have a tie for 2nd and thrid
ThePrincess? Parisi: so do we vote then for those two
Patroklus Murakami: is that all the votes in?
Beathan Vale: no
Beathan Vale: OK
Brian Livingston: Leon still needs to vote really…
ThePrincess? Parisi: tie breakers?
Brian Livingston: ?
Beathan Vale: 1 and 2 are are top 2 I think
Beathan Vale: so — aye on 1; nay on 2
Patroklus Murakami: excuse me, i haven’t called the vote yet
Beathan Vale: lo — kk
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok good cos i changed my mind
Gwyneth Llewelyn waits…
Patroklus Murakami: well, we can’t take 1 and 2 as the top two as 2 and 3 tied
ThePrincess? Parisi: but you didnt call for a vote so can you do that
Patroklus Murakami: both 2 and 3 got three votes each
Patroklus Murakami: so what do we do now?
Beathan Vale: I thought there was 1 nay on 1 and 2 nays on 3
ThePrincess? Parisi: vote again
Sonja Strom: we could vote between 2 and 3 to eliminate one of them
Cindy Ecksol thinks “is it time to say ‘I told you so?’”
Patroklus Murakami: so, this is supposed to be a better system?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i abastain .. either is fine
Beathan Vale: 4 nays on 2 — so 1 and 3 are top 2 , yes?
Patroklus Murakami: i think my original handling woudl have produced a more predictable answer. ah well, never mind
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 – 5 votes, 2 – 3 votes, 3 – 4 votes
Sonja Strom: Thank Gwyneth!
ThePrincess? Parisi: i want either voting system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (unless Princess changes her vote)
Sonja Strom: So it is between 1 and 3.
Beathan Vale: I move we ask the LRA to choose between the two at his discretion and then adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan! how undemocratic!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Patroklus Murakami: ty gwyn. i need a secretary to keep track of these complicated votes
ThePrincess? Parisi: i vote for beathans or ours
Yogeswari Padar grins widely
Sonja Strom: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: how ‘autocratic’ 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
Patroklus Murakami: i would never agree to that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ogre Power?
Cindy Ecksol tears hair out….
Sonja Strom: haha
ThePrincess? Parisi: cos if i vote for csdf then what would pl say
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: jk
Beathan Vale: ok — withdrawn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That you’re actually good at compromise, Princess 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: rock paper scissors
MT Lundquist: can we just vote looking at the time
Bromo Ivory thinks cindy could merely disattach her hair with les sissue
Sonja Strom: Let’s vote between one and three.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, are you withdrawing your proposal?
Sonja Strom: already did Pat
Beathan Vale: yes — I withdraw 3
ThePrincess? Parisi: if you attach your hair to another place it wont fall out when you put on a hat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Patroklus Murakami: the three proposals are mutually exclusive. so, if one passes the others automatically fall”
Beathan Vale: item 1 got more votes anyway
Sonja Strom: oh, sorry I misunderstood
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, 1 passes.
ThePrincess? Parisi: tahts whati thought .. then gwyen
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay ONE
Patroklus Murakami: well, gwyn, that’s not the way we did it
MT Lundquist: ok
Beathan Vale: Gwyn — we were using the twostep process
MT Lundquist: good
Sonja Strom: yay ONE
Patroklus Murakami: but yes, 1 wins by default
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes it is pat, thats hwat you said
MT Lundquist: progress
Brian Livingston: Great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total”
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay ONE
ThePrincess? Parisi: yeay gwneth
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
ThePrincess? Parisi: nooo
Beathan Vale: second
ThePrincess? Parisi: i move that next week
Brian Livingston: Sounds good.
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have any othe rbuisness on the agenda
MT Lundquist: second
Sonja Strom: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: i move that we vote to have aob on the agenda next week
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, we’re in a vote on adjournment
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we vote , you hve to let us per RA rules pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: so you are doign this agin.. last week i asked and you said no
Patroklus Murakami: no other votes allowed according to robert’s rules 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: no to ajourn then
MT Lundquist: we arnt using roberts rules yet pat
Sonja Strom: nay to adjourn
MT Lundquist: inay to adjurn
Brian Livingston: I can’t stay for this, but if there any votes, I do request a 7 day. Good night ladies, gentlemen, dragons…
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, we have three in favour of adjourning and three against.
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol great beathan
Patroklus Murakami: bye brian
Sonja Strom: bye Brian
Patroklus Murakami: i need to go too
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan didnt fovte to adgour
MT Lundquist: bye brian
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i want any other business on next week
Jon Seattle: Bye Brian 🙂
Cindy Ecksol thinks maybe pat will be gracious for once….
ThePrincess? Parisi: why are you opposed to that
Beathan Vale: ok — provided Brian gets a seven day vote — nay to adjoirn
Patroklus Murakami: if you have an agenda item, submit it in advance
ThePrincess? Parisi: seven day
ThePrincess? Parisi: NO
ThePrincess? Parisi: the RA rules say i can
ThePrincess? Parisi: ask to have a thing on agenda
ThePrincess? Parisi: if we vote for it for next week
ThePrincess? Parisi: and you know it
Beathan Vale: I move that we consider item 6 of the process bill
ThePrincess? Parisi: you know we can add agenda for next week..
ThePrincess? Parisi: if we get a vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: and you know i IMd you at the meeting start
ThePrincess? Parisi: and you didnt respond
Sonja Strom: second of Beathan’s move
ThePrincess? Parisi: third
MT Lundquist: fourth
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat read the RA rulles hun, if we ask for a agenda item you have to put it if we vote to have it
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we post the RA rules on the wall
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe that would help
Cindy Ecksol is amazed that the LRA is now asleep…..shades of Ronald Reagan?
Sonja Strom: haha
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol cindy
ThePrincess? Parisi: my cross got to work ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we have a vice LRA
Patroklus Murakami: excuse me a moment
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok thanks
Sonja Strom: opportune timing for being “Away”?
ThePrincess? Parisi: imagine that
Cindy Ecksol thinks “Quick! pass something while he’s away!”
Yogeswari Padar: give him a break, gang, it’s midnight in the UK
Sonja Strom: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: i propose that cindy is the name of the next sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: i vote aye
Patroklus Murakami: scrolling back.. bear with me
ThePrincess? Parisi: it was jokes only pat
Patroklus Murakami: TP, why do you want ‘any other business’ on the agenda? why can’t you submit an item in advance? if it’s important enough to discuss it’s surely important enough to post in advance?
ThePrincess? Parisi: so when ppl have issues that are unforseen they can add them
ThePrincess? Parisi: soemtimes you dont know, lik e today you forgot a thing
Patroklus Murakami: such as?
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe we need to add a thing too
ThePrincess? Parisi: well one thing is this
Beathan Vale: well — I don’t want to have vote or action items added without notice
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we need to follow the rules.. why are you opposed to it is the big question
MT Lundquist: 1. Agenda. The Leader of the RA (LRA) will determine the agenda for each meeting, and publish it on a notecard before each meeting. It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will make the final determination. If the membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting. The LRA at all times determines the order of the agenda.
ThePrincess? Parisi: no but to discuss
Patroklus Murakami: the problem i have with ‘aob’ is that it’s an ambush item. like the last time you raised an aob item
Yogeswari Padar: PLEASE, folks – it is VERY late in the UK and the rest of europe – please try to have some consideration
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat we can be voted out if we are ambusing
Beathan Vale: yes — it is very late across the pond
Patroklus Murakami: but i’ll bear that in mind when putting the agenda together next time
ThePrincess? Parisi: why dont you want us to have it, you can kick us out if we ambush you
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think that item 6 on m proposal covers that
MT Lundquist: this is simple pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said that three weeks ago
MT Lundquist: you have to let us vote on this
Beathan Vale: as long as it is a discussion only period — there is not much rea harm even if there is an ambush
MT Lundquist: read the ra rules
ThePrincess? Parisi: i vote that beathans bill is on frist next week
Pip Torok: permission to speak, chairman
Patroklus Murakami: well, i’ve seen your vote. but i need to go now so goodbye
ThePrincess? Parisi: what about beathans
Beathan Vale: I will add and clarify it betwen now and then
ThePrincess? Parisi: let the citizen speak

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 09, 2008

Agenda

The agenda for this weeks meeting was continued from the last week per procedural motion.

1. RA Process Bill

2. Celebrating our volunteers Bill

3. Greener Sims Bill
Transcript

Note: Due to SL inventory issues, the transcript from the first portion of the RA meeting was lost, a period of approximately 5 minutes. During this span of time, the meeting was called to order, roll was taken, and the meeting was postponed for an hour to allow representatives who were caught off-guard by the time change to attend the meeting.

“You” = Brian Livingston in this transcript

13:00 Sonja Strom: or, Welcome back
13:02 Sonja Strom: So, ThePrincess? and MT have excused absences?
13:02 Beathan Vale: yes — but I don’t know if that means we have a quorum
13:02 Sonja Strom: Right – but we know they will not be here.
13:02 You: No, we still need 50% +1 to have a quorum
13:03 Beathan Vale: and I don’t know if we should consider the RA to be an RA of 5 or an RA of 7
13:03 Beathan Vale: is it 50% of current members of 50% of potential members?
13:03 You: I’d say an RA of 7, although the SCneeds to work on that. THe Constitution does stipulate that a faction controls its seats and the number of seats corresponds to the population of the CDS
13:04 Beathan Vale: I agree – we should not do something that will be useless — so we should take the most conservative interpretation until the SC rules
13:04 Sonja Strom: That’s fine with me.
13:04 Sonja Strom: We already have a schedule for today anyway…
13:04 You: I’ll e-mail claude to request interpretation after the meeting
13:04 Sonja Strom: That’s a good idea
13:05 Beathan Vale: true — and the meting convened with a quorum last week — but I think we should still wait a week — let things settle a bit
13:05 Sonja Strom: sure, actually I should correct myself…
13:05 You: Ok, it is 1:05 PM SLT and I am reconvening this week’s session of the Representative Assembly
13:05 Sonja Strom: OK
13:06 You: Attendance is noted, with Brian Livingston, Beathan Vale, and Sonja in attendance, with apologies from MT and The Princess
13:07 Sonja Strom: Is there a recorder, or will we just use the chat log?
13:07 You: We do not have a Quorum so no vote will be taken today on agenda items.
13:07 Beathan Vale: chat log I thnk
13:07 You: Yes, I don’t have a recorder yet so Chatlog will have to suffice
13:08 You: We *can * contineu with discussion on the agenda that was continued from the last meeting, again with no votes taken, if the Assembly so wishes
13:08 Sonja Strom: That’s fine.
13:09 You: Beathan, would you like to lead the discussion of the next Agenda item, your RA Process Bill?
13:10 Beathan Vale: ok
13:10 Beathan Vale: discussion
13:10 Beathan Vale: let me pull it up
13:11 Beathan Vale: This is a multifaceted bill designed in large part to resolve conflicts we have had in past RA meetings by improving and streamlining the process
13:11 Beathan Vale: I think everyone agrees that the last few RA meetings have not been optimal.
13:12 Beathan Vale: Leon, in fact, has recently said that the last few RA meetings will discourage anyone from joining the CDS or following our lead in the creation of SL democracies
13:13 Beathan Vale: there have been two principle suggestions for resolving this problem — first, to empower the LRA still further, and give him autocratic control of the RA to squash conlict by squashing debate — I think that this is a horrible idea
13:13 Beathan Vale: second, the one I favor — that precipited the bill — to institute some formal and clear processes that allow for debate within a working framework that would prevent disruption and provide for movement of issues towards resolution
13:14 Beathan Vale: I proposed Robert’s Rules because they are tried and true — these have been opposed as too complicated and too parochially American — however, the opponents have not offered any real or sound alternative
13:14 Beathan Vale: so — to work through the propsoal
13:15 Second Life: Please check http://blog.secondlife.com for an update on in world services. Do not conduct Land or L$ Transactions until you see an all clear message on our blog post.
13:15 Beathan Vale: item 1 — involves 7 day votes or the importance of inwolrd votes
13:15 Beathan Vale: The first alternative is the one I support. It just spells out and clearly describes our current rule to prevent confusion like we had at at least one meeting last term
13:16 Beathan Vale: Item 1A is proposed by ThePrincess?, who believes that it is important for the RA to do things in world at meetings attended by citizens
13:17 Beathan Vale: I think that this inworld stipulation is unncessary — as citizens can attend and participate in forum discussions as easily as attend the inwolrd meeting — more easily in most cases
13:17 Beathan Vale: Item 2 might be most controversial — it is designed to prevent hasty RA action
13:18 Beathan Vale: several citizens with RL legislative experience have decried the speed of RA deliberations — and have suggested that we follow the rule, common iRL, of introducing legislation, providing for a comment and consideration period not limited by the time limits of a hearing, and then representing the bill for vote
13:19 Sonja Strom: Welcome Pip
13:19 You: Good Day Pip
13:19 Beathan Vale: I favor rhis — I think there is no reason why most legislation should be passed in the same hearing in which it is first introduced
13:19 Pip Torok: hi everyone
13:19 Sonja Strom: Welcome Bjerkel
13:19 Beathan Vale: a two reading process seems wise, deliberate, and not too much of an obstruction
13:20 Bjerkel Eerie: sorry to barge in
13:20 Pip Torok: hi bj
13:20 Beathan Vale: Item 3 just formalizes current process, for the most part, although it does clarify that Pat was just wrong in denying RA control of our agenda from the floor
13:20 You: (No problem and welcome )
13:20 Beathan Vale: However, even Jon Seattle has said that the RA has such control– so item 3 essentially clarifies current procedure
13:21 You decline NEW STARDUST CAFE, Five Blades (8, 227, 23) from A group member named Therese Nightfire.
13:21 Beathan Vale: However — it does accomodate a change I am proposing elsewhere of allowing things to be added to the agenda based on forum posts
13:22 Beathan Vale: it also incorporates a resolution of some concerns of TP concerning notice
13:22 Beathan Vale: Item 4 specifies RROs as the procedure for the RA.
13:22 Beathan Vale: This is, I think, critical — RROs work, work well and are not at all hard to use
13:23 Beathan Vale: Item 4a is Pat’s counterproposal — it is insufficient — it is not an improvement
13:24 Beathan Vale: our problem is that we have a rule sketch — not a set of rules — and Pat’s proposal is just another rule sketch that does not resolve our problems
13:25 Beathan Vale: Item 5 adds the forum posts as a basis to add items to the agenda — otherwise it just clarifies existing rules
13:25 Beathan Vale: Item 5A is a substantial change — it limits the power to propose legislation to RA members only
13:26 Beathan Vale: again, this was suggested by citizens with RL legislative experience — and it reflects what RL legislatures do
13:26 Beathan Vale: I favor 5 over the alternative
13:26 Pip Torok: mmmm
13:26 Beathan Vale: I think we are not so large that citizens cannot propose legislation directly — although we might get there
13:26 Bjerkel Eerie: real life has petiton, referendum and recall
13:27 Beathan Vale: Further, unless we have a referendum process allowing citizen proposals — we should not strip the citizens of their already aenemic power to directly influence governemnt
13:27 Beathan Vale: I think of citizen proposals of legislation as comparable to the RL right to petition government , which is a critical human right
13:28 Beathan Vale: Item 6 is proposes that we add a general and open discussion period, with time limits, to the end of all our meetings
13:28 Beathan Vale: I think that all well run meetings should have such a discussion
13:29 Beathan Vale: The only opposition is that open discussions allow for “ambush of the LRA”
13:30 Beathan Vale: However, the RA should expect to be ambushed by events and by citizen concerns from time to time — and we should welcome such challenges as they will make us more aware of the issues of importance in our community and more responsive ot the needs of our citizens
13:30 Sonja Strom: Hello, Welcome to the Representative Assembly meeting
13:30 Beathan Vale: again — we need to move away from a procedural of autocratic control and towards a procedure that works more like the rule of law
13:30 Dieuwert Spijkers: hello all
13:30 Dieuwert Spijkers: have a good serious meeting
13:30 Dieuwert Spijkers: we dont disturb
13:30 Beathan Vale: the basis of a democracy is that no individual dictates terms of law to the citizens
13:30 Sonja Strom: If you would like, please join us and have a seat
13:31 Lunatic Rang: first time to visit
13:31 Lunatic Rang: but ty for the kind invitation
13:31 Beathan Vale: The same should true of the legislature — the RA should be ruled by law, but not controlled and stifled by the LRA
13:31 Beathan Vale: to do this — we need clear and complete procedures so that we don’t rely on personal action and personal leadership to give our meetings order
13:32 You decline Streeter’s Place, Koskov (217, 81, 70) from A group member named Singerman Marquette.
13:32 You decline THE CAVERN CLUB – Mathew St, Liverpool from A group member named Leyah Renegade.
13:32 Beathan Vale: A good procedure makes meetings self-organizing without personal intervention (or with only limited personal intervention) of the chair — that is critical for the RA moving forward
13:32 Beathan Vale: That is all — thank you chair
13:32 Sonja Strom: Thank you Beathan!
13:32 You: Thank you. Any other discussion on thsi bill before i make soem remarks?
13:32 Sonja Strom: Thanks so much for putting all of your work into this!
13:32 You decline Apfelland Hafen Clubschiff, White Eagle (186, 103, 31) from A group member named foxyflwr Cure.
13:33 Pip Torok: yes tku is there a written form of those proposals?
13:33 Pip Torok: tku
13:33 Sonja Strom: Yes, I sent you one as a notecard.
13:33 Beathan Vale: yes — on the forum — and I gave you a note
13:33 You: Ok, a few quick thoughts I have had regarding this proposal, which I will work through by moving through each part of the proposal.
13:35 You: For the record, I feel that this proposal is increasingly important as we grow. We are no longer an assembly of five representatives, but we are expanding rapidly, to the point htat 9 or 11 representatives may not be unheard of within the next year
13:35 You: I agreew ith Beathan’s interpretation of the bill and its alternatives, wit hteh following points of emphasis.
13:37 You: Section 1: I am certainyl against teh alternative proposed for the first section, dealing with 7 day votes. To insist that the members submit to the RA’s opinion on whether their absence is excused is rather insultign to the dignity of the RA members and unneccessarially delves into their SL and RL privacy.
13:38 You: Section 4 does concern me, as I am not fully convinced that we need a several hundred page set of rules for governing our meetings, although it is evident that we do need a more defined set of rules
13:39 You: That being said, I have been working on alternatives and have located a few , but any such alternative needs to be easily accessible for all RA members and citizens and it seems most rule sets for parlimentary pprocedures require purchasign the actual book, which is a bit of a hurdle for teh sake of easy reference.
13:40 You: Section 5: I am opposed to the alternative proposal for this section, which limits the ability of citizens to propose legislation. Citizens need to be better empowered to interact with andshape their government, not hampered in that pursuit.
13:40 Sonja Strom: I have a question about that part.
13:41 You: Sections 2, 3, and 6 look reasonable to me.
13:41 You: Yes Sonja
13:41 Sonja Strom: What is the difference between 5. and Alternative 5a. ? I don’t see it…
13:42 You: Section 5 permits both RA members and citizens to propose legislation
13:42 You: Alternative 5 a limits the ability to propose legislation to RA members only
13:42 Sonja Strom: Oh, maybe I have an old notecard.
13:42 Sonja Strom: In mine 5a does not, but 5b does.
13:43 You: Hrm, perhaps I’m working off an old notecard then. Beathan?
13:44 Sonja Strom: In future, maybe the versions given out could have dates on them, to tell them apart.
13:45 Sonja Strom: Or version numbers, maybe.
13:45 You: Hmm, I’m looking for a version with 5b and am not seeing it, but yes, probably not a bad idea to hav ea timestamp of some sort.
13:46 You: In addition, whenI get a notecard dispensor (on the to do list this week), it will make this a bit mroe of a moot point
13:46 Beathan Vale: yes — that is an old version
13:46 Sonja Strom: Well, so long as we have a distinction between those two possibilities maybe it is not really important…
13:46 Beathan Vale: there were some minor time differences — but they were moved
13:47 Sonja Strom: Mine is the old version?
13:47 Sonja Strom: or Brian’s
13:49 Brian Livingston pokes Beathan
13:49 Sonja Strom giggles
13:49 You: Hmm, in the interest of expediency, are there any other comments regarding the RA Process Bill?
13:50 Sonja Strom: I have thought a lot about the Robert’s Rules of Order concept,
13:50 Sonja Strom: and posted about this in the Forum.
13:50 Sonja Strom: I think we should abandon that particular route.
13:51 Sonja Strom: It would be very good to clarify the RA rules much more,
13:51 Sonja Strom: but I think we should do that on our own.
13:51 Sonja Strom: We could use any of those same rules we wanted, but then simply add them into our own existing set of rules.
13:51 Sonja Strom: Even if that makes our own rules quite large,
13:52 Sonja Strom: it would still leave us in control of altering them as we wished…
13:52 Beathan Vale: that process seems wrought with peril as well as being very challenging
13:52 Sonja Strom: and no one would need to purchase anything.
13:52 Sonja Strom: Why?
13:53 Beathan Vale: and I have proposed purchasing copies for the CDS — there should also be an electronic version we can purchase
13:53 Beathan Vale: that is, I would personally purchase the RROs for RA members
13:53 Beathan Vale: current RA members, at least
13:53 You decline Champlain College Campus, Champlain College ITS (178, 97, 26) from A group member named kat Vargas.
13:53 Bjerkel Eerie: LOOk I have a freind with a tool to copy and rezz a whole sim
13:53 Beathan Vale: I think that trying to create a process from scratch is like reinventing the wheel
13:54 Beathan Vale: it is hard and unnecessary as we have a proven set of useful rules ready to hand
13:55 You: Hmm, an intersting and useful summary in a page of RRO
13:55 You: http://www.robertsrules.org/
13:55 Beathan Vale: yes — excellent exhibit
13:55 You: and motions used in meetings: http://www.robertsrules.org/motions.htm
13:56 Sonja Strom: Ooh, those look very good Bjerkel
13:56 Sonja Strom: I do also agree with ThePrincess? that it would be good to have them posted somewhere in the meeting room when RA meetings are taking place,
13:56 Sonja Strom: so everyone can refer to them and see what they are.
13:58 Sonja Strom: Maybe like that, behind Bjekel, or maybe in the form of a book on the table or something.
13:58 You: I think a notecard format would suffice, especially with the text-intensive format of the rules.
13:58 Sonja Strom: OK, if you think it could be readable that way.
13:58 You: However, that would be an issue if we institute RRO, as I’ve only found the 1915 rules in public domain
13:59 Sonja Strom: Then in that case, I think it should be in the form of a “Rule Book” sitting on the table next to the “Constitution Book.”
13:59 Beathan Vale: yes — but I could buy us an virtual or online licensed version
13:59 Sonja Strom: Maybe.
13:59 Sonja Strom: It seems like organisations must be able to do that.
14:00 Bjerkel Eerie: I think they are public domain
14:00 Beathan Vale: no RROs are copyrighted
14:01 Beathan Vale: but cheap — like $6 a pop
14:01 Beathan Vale: paperback cheap
14:01 Sonja Strom: OK, I will reconsider my view.
14:01 You: How major are the differences between the Public Domain 4th ed and the current ed?
14:02 Beathan Vale: I have not done that analyiss
14:03 You: Hmm, something I can continue to research I suppose.
14:03 Beathan Vale: there is some language differences — older longer more confusing language in old version
14:03 You: ah
14:03 You: Any further comments on this bill?
14:04 Sonja Strom: I have a general comment, that might be good to just bring up in this context.
14:04 Sonja Strom: I would like for us to consider Arria’s idea of having an Intiative process for the CDS.
14:04 Beathan Vale: yes — I am working on that
14:05 Sonja Strom: (and yes, Beathan, in Switzerland this is also called an Initiative)
14:05 Sonja Strom: “Volksinitiativ”
14:05 You: I’m certainly open to a referendum/citizen initiative procedure
14:06 Beathan Vale: but isn’t there a referral process in Switzerland — the legislature refers things to the citizens — or is it completely citizen initiated?
14:06 Sonja Strom: There is — there are Referenda, and Initiatives.
14:06 Beathan Vale: ok —
14:06 Sonja Strom: When the Parliament or Cantonal Representative Assemblies pass laws,
14:07 Sonja Strom: often they are approved by having Referendum votes.
14:07 Sonja Strom: Some of these are mandatory.
14:08 Sonja Strom: If the citizens want legislation that is different than what the legislative bodies have proposed already, then they have a right to begin an Initiative process.
14:08 Sonja Strom: They collect signatures, and these issues are put on the ballot.
14:08 Sonja Strom: They can supercede the Parliament or Cantonal governing bodies —
14:08 Bjerkel Eerie: With the copyright expired, even the name “Robert’s” has passed into the public domain, and many imitators have slapped the name “Robert’s” on books of parliamentary procedure that bear minimal relation to General Robert’s work (
14:09 Sonja Strom: but they need to have a lot of signatures, and a majority vote,
14:09 Sonja Strom: which is relatively rare to achieve, in order to make them become law.
14:09 Sonja Strom: But it does happen.
14:09 Sonja Strom: On occasion, the Parliament and so on will be against an Initiative that passes and changes the law.
14:10 Sonja Strom: It does seem to me that it would be good for the CDS to have some procedure like this.
14:10 Beathan Vale: I agree
14:11 Sonja Strom: However, this does seem a bit different of an issue than the RA rules themselves.
14:11 Sonja Strom: So, they do not need to be considered together.
14:12 Sonja Strom: I was just thinking it might be good to bring up a discussion about such a concept at this time, while we are talking about making changes to the RA rules.
14:12 Beathan Vale: yes — especially as there is a proposal to limit RA legislation to matters proposed by RA membrs only
14:13 You: Indeed.
14:13 Sonja Strom: Right.
14:14 Sonja Strom: It might be possible to have matters that the RA only could propose, but then a citizen Initiative way that non-RA members could propose things.
14:15 Sonja Strom: I might be making this more complicated than is necessary, I don’t know, but am just trying to bring up possible ways of doing it…
14:15 Sonja Strom: In general, I think the changes proposed would be much better than the current system.
14:16 Pip Torok: (agree)
14:16 You: Agreed
14:16 You: Any further comments? If not, let’s briefly move to teh Greener Sims Bill before we adjourn for the week.
14:17 Sonja Strom: I’m done talking about it, lol
14:17 Beathan Vale: nothing further here
14:17 Pip Torok: if anyones got a note about it id appreciate it
14:17 You: Ok, Greener Sims Bill, Sonja, I believe you proposed this legislation?
14:17 Sonja Strom: You mean the current version of the bill?
14:17 Beathan Vale: notecard send
14:18 Sonja Strom: Thanks.
14:18 Sonja Strom: Actually, I believe the CSDF proposed that,
14:18 Pip Torok: tks B
14:18 Sonja Strom: although I support it.
14:18 You: Oh, Hmm
14:18 Bjerkel Eerie: i have never heard of it befor just now
14:18 Sonja Strom: Hmm, maybe I am wrong about that…
14:18 Sonja Strom: Well, we can talk about it anyway.
14:19 Beathan Vale: it wa s CSDF proposal — part of the platform
14:19 Beathan Vale: seems noncontroversial
14:19 You: My mistake. Either way, any thoguhts on this legislation
14:19 Sonja Strom: I think it is about having the CDS purchase a “renewable energy credit” for its sims.
14:19 Pip Torok: yes how are the emissions from CDS derived?
14:20 Beathan Vale: I would like to see how expensive carbon offset credits would be
14:20 Sonja Strom: Do we have any factories here?
14:20 Beathan Vale: and how much 3 sims worth of credits would be
14:20 Sonja Strom: What jobs do we have, actually?
14:20 Beathan Vale: might be better to just plant a tree or three —
14:20 Beathan Vale: but — this bill makes a good statement iRL
14:20 Pip Torok: e.g. is there a “smoking chimney” rate?
14:20 Sonja Strom: Good question!
14:21 Sonja Strom: It could set an example for SL.
14:21 Sonja Strom: If all of SL did that, it might make a difference…
14:21 Bjerkel Eerie: each sim uses as much electricity as teh average brazilian on an annual basis
14:21 Sonja Strom: wow
14:22 Pip Torok: yes but first things first … eg how much emission do the 2 giant CN lamps emit?
14:22 Bjerkel Eerie: 2 what???
14:22 Pip Torok: you know the giant torches on the wall
14:22 Beathan Vale: yes — but we need to know the source of the power — is it from a coal plant, or wind, or solar, or hydroelectic
14:22 Sonja Strom: for SL, or the CDS
14:23 Sonja Strom: ?
14:23 Beathan Vale: as far as we know — the SL servers are already low carbon
14:23 You: The sims are located in Southern California? I would wagera gues that a good chunk would be hydro
14:23 Beathan Vale: depends on where the servers are on the grid
14:23 Pip Torok: perhaps were wading in detail too much at this stage
14:23 Beathan Vale: some servers are in England now
14:23 Sonja Strom: Does anyone know what the cost of this would be to the CDS?
14:23 Pip Torok: oh????
14:23 Beathan Vale: and some are on the East Coast, yes?
14:23 Bjerkel Eerie: California is mostly nukes coal and oil
14:24 Pip Torok: perhaps we should b brutal and measure CDS emission by the server outlay in its own energy
14:25 Sonja Strom: Sorry, Pip, I don’t understand what you mean.
14:25 Pip Torok: well we have 3 sims here and they are run fundamentally by servers ok?
14:25 Sonja Strom: right
14:25 Pip Torok: these servers consume energy
14:26 Bjerkel Eerie: and each uses about a thousand kwh per year or one megawatt
14:26 Sonja Strom: correct
14:26 Pip Torok: a proportion of the total LL energy requrement
14:26 Sonja Strom: I see, OK thanks.
14:27 Sonja Strom: And these credits would compensate for the use of 3 megawatts per year by purchasing them from renewable energy sources?
14:27 Pip Torok: apologies for treading close to the facticity parameters of SL …
14:27 Sonja Strom: no apology necessary
14:27 You: Hmm. So it seems more research is required to better weigh the neccessity and cost of htis proposal, includign perhaps an inquiry to LL regarding the energy usage of each sim, the source of their electricitiy and site of our servers, if they would release such detailed information that is…
14:28 Sonja Strom: Maybe that would be good to do next, Brian.
14:28 Pip Torok: yes .. although if we know the number and if the servers have equal power requirements we COULD derive it
14:28 Bjerkel Eerie: it does not matter where they are located as all enrgy flows into the national grid and is mixed
14:28 You: As well as the cost and avenues of purcahse for these carbon credits
14:28 You: Unless tehy are located offshore in Europe
14:29 You: Which Beathan has indicated as a possibility
14:29 Pip Torok: with respect in a world crisis it wont matter where they are
14:29 Bjerkel Eerie: germany is 80% cola nd nuke
14:29 Pip Torok: ah i see your point
14:30 You: I mean, we can certainly simplify this by figuring out how much energy each sim sues and simply bbuyign the credits and ignoring the detailed factors of electricity source and whatnot, which may be our best bet to accomplish the overal goal of thsi legislatio nand prevent our heads from exploding
14:30 Sonja Strom: Do we actually know that these credits would help to offset the environmental impact of the servers?
14:30 Pip Torok: not at the moment …
14:30 Beathan Vale: I think I am righton that — I remember some service interuptions that LL said was involved in moveing sims to servers in England
14:31 Sonja Strom: I have heard that also.
14:31 Pip Torok: did LL justify the move to England?
14:31 Sonja Strom: It was partly to stabilise the grid in Europe, in my understanding.
14:31 Sonja Strom: Also to make it not so completely dependent on the Internet grid of the United States.
14:32 Pip Torok: of course!
14:32 Bjerkel Eerie: England has teh worst renewable energy policies in Europe
14:32 Beathan Vale: it also might have been part of an attempt to set up a possible grid where casinos could run — they would be illegal under US law, but English law is (apparently) easier to comply with
14:32 Sonja Strom: Really? That is interesting… How do they compare with the USA?
14:33 Bjerkel Eerie: we ahave a 30% tax credit they have nothing
14:33 Beathan Vale: well — I did not end up taking the solicitors exam as planned — although I still have it on my longterm to dos — so should not speculate
14:33 You: Ok folks, I am goign to request we start wrapping up this discussion for now and perhaps continue in the appropriate forum threads, as it is now jsut after 2:30 SLT.
14:33 Sonja Strom: OK
14:33 Beathan Vale: second
14:33 Sonja Strom: Aye
14:33 Pip Torok: agree
14:34 Sonja Strom: Does anyone want to look further into the details of these “green” credits?
14:34 Sonja Strom: Like what Brian was saying earlier?
14:34 Pip Torok: I do … but i have calls on my time …
14:34 Beathan Vale: I will inquire with a attorney at work — she is in the process of setting up a carbon bank
14:34 Sonja Strom: Very great Beathan!!
14:35 Bjerkel Eerie: I really think you should visit my Energy Paths Oveiview project to get a sense of what is going on in energy issues
14:35 Pip Torok: BJ hav changed my mind … this call comes first
14:35 Sonja Strom: I am extremely busy, otherwise I would volunteer.
14:35 You: If I get a chance I’ll try to look itno it some this week
14:35 Sonja Strom: Bjerkel, what do you mean? I didn’t understand….
14:36 Sonja Strom: Do you mean your Commonwealth project?
14:36 Bjerkel Eerie: you have not seen what we are doing there sonja we are reduing all the sims
14:37 You: So, I move to end discussion and adjourn this meeting of the R.A.
14:37 You: Eep lag
14:37 Beathan Vale: OK — I have to run — can we continue this meeting one more week for a vote when he have a quorum
14:37 Sonja Strom: OK – we will stop for today then. See you later!
14:37 Beathan Vale: and Brian — are you posting the transcript?
14:38 You: Yes, I’ll do so later

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 16, 2008

Agenda

1. Reports
-Commerce Commission
-Code Reorganisation
-Election Rules
-RA Process

2. RA Process Bill

3. Celebrating our volunteers Bill

4. Greener Sims Bill

5. Other Business
Transcript

2008/03/16 12:03 Brian Livingston: If everyone ould touch the recorder to indicate their consent to be Recorded for the record
2008/03/16 12:03 Connected
2008/03/16 12:03 Bjerkel Eerie: Hi Pat
2008/03/16 12:04 Patroklus Murakami: hi
2008/03/16 12:04 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Delia Lake (19m)
2008/03/16 12:04 Beathan Vale: Brian — I think I did — but I didn’t get a message
2008/03/16 12:04 Yogeswari Padar: hi pat, hi danton
2008/03/16 12:04 notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
2008/03/16 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: same heren
2008/03/16 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: here
2008/03/16 12:04 Sonja Strom is Online
2008/03/16 12:05 Jon Seattle: Hi Delia 🙂
2008/03/16 12:05 Yogeswari Padar: hi delia
2008/03/16 12:05 Brian Livingston: Hm. I’ve never used this notekeeper before so I’m not sure. Let me check something
2008/03/16 12:05 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Sonja Strom (5m)
2008/03/16 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: hello citizens
2008/03/16 12:05 Delia Lake: good day everyone
2008/03/16 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi bows to sonja .. im so glad to see yow
2008/03/16 12:05 Sonja Strom: hello everybody
2008/03/16 12:05 Jon Seattle: Hi Sonja 🙂
2008/03/16 12:05 Sonja Strom: a;)
2008/03/16 12:05 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: PMRobert Walpole (19m)
2008/03/16 12:06 MT Lundquist: hi sonja
2008/03/16 12:06 Beathan Vale: Ya! A quorum
2008/03/16 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat are here as an active RA member?
2008/03/16 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: or did you resign? im confused
2008/03/16 12:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: as usual
2008/03/16 12:07 Beathan Vale: no — I think Pat is here as a citizen — as he is entitled to be
2008/03/16 12:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome pat!
2008/03/16 12:07 Brian Livingston: Ok, MT< Sonja, Yoge, Bjerkel, and PMRobert, if you could touch the recorder on the table to indicate your cconsent tobe put on the record for this meeting 2008/03/16 12:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: i just wanted to be clear 2008/03/16 12:07 Naftali Torok is Online 2008/03/16 12:08 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Dnate Mars (5m) 2008/03/16 12:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: seeing blue again 2008/03/16 12:08 Brian Livingston: Ergh, i don't lknow how well this is goingto work... 2008/03/16 12:08 Patroklus Murakami: yes, what beathan said. (I'm just finishing dinner here in RL) 2008/03/16 12:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 2008/03/16 12:10 Brian Livingston: Well, I do believe we can get started with this meeting 2008/03/16 12:10 Brian Livingston: There are currently 5 RA members present so we do have a quoru, woohoo 2008/03/16 12:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i second the woohooo 2008/03/16 12:10 MT Lundquist: excellent 2008/03/16 12:11 Jon Seattle: Point of information, for the record, who is chairing this meeting? 2008/03/16 12:11 Object owned by Brian Livingston gave you 'Celebrating our volunteers Bill' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/197/185/178 ). 2008/03/16 12:11 Beathan Vale: Brian 2008/03/16 12:11 Brian Livingston: Again, if you have not done so, please toucch the recorder and teh notecard dispenser (the green box next to it) to indicate your consent to be recorded for the record and to collect the notecards for hte meeting 2008/03/16 12:12 Brian Livingston: Before we get starteed, I am going to request that we attempt to keep the meeting to two hours, as I realize that many of hte members have buys schedules today 🙂 2008/03/16 12:13 Beathan Vale: second 2008/03/16 12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: third 2008/03/16 12:13 MT Lundquist: agree 2008/03/16 12:13 Flyingroc Chung: cant you do it in one? 2008/03/16 12:13 Beathan Vale: FR — not lately 2008/03/16 12:13 Brian Livingston: Eh, 5 minutes :p 2008/03/16 12:13 Brian Livingston: Ok, Committee Reports - Commerece is up first 2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: ok 2008/03/16 12:14 Pip Torok is Online 2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: well we didnt meet this last week 2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: so there is nothing new to report 2008/03/16 12:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: well nothing public 2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: however we will be meeting next Saturday when I get back from holiday 2008/03/16 12:15 Brian Livingston: Wonderful. Thank you. 2008/03/16 12:16 Brian Livingston: Code Reorganization: 2008/03/16 12:17 Brian Livingston: Code Reorganization did not eet this week but I do certainly encourage interested parties to hime in on the topi post in the Legislative discussions section of hte forum 2008/03/16 12:17 Brian Livingston: I am going to attempt to hold an inworld meeting this oming Saturday. I'll post hte time in the forums later this week 2008/03/16 12:18 Brian Livingston: Ok, Elections Rules? 2008/03/16 12:19 Beathan Vale: that is all 2008/03/16 12:19 Beathan Vale: no one attended the election meeting last week — so nothing new to report on that front --- we'll meet again aftger this meeting — but there are several good Forum discussions — on the role of the LRF, on the election o fthe Chancellor, and on RA size which bear — I suggest everyone read them 2008/03/16 12:19 Brian Livingston: Wonderful, Thank you. 2008/03/16 12:19 Brian Livingston: RA Process? 2008/03/16 12:19 Beathan Vale: same 2008/03/16 12:20 Brian Livingston: Ok, thank you again. 2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: I have nothing to add to the discussion in the RA last week 2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1658 2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: Pat hahs proposed amendments, which I oppose 2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: that is all 2008/03/16 12:20 Brian Livingston: Let 2008/03/16 12:21 Brian Livingston: Next is the RA Process Bill. Beathan, do you have anything you would like to present? 2008/03/16 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you wanna know about the guided tour committee? 2008/03/16 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. 2008/03/16 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: you just did that 2008/03/16 12:22 Beathan Vale: nothing new --- again the discussion last week says everything http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1658 2008/03/16 12:23 Brian Livingston: In that case, Pat, if you would like to preset your alternatives and then we will have a brief dicussion of the various points? 2008/03/16 12:23 Brian Livingston: And Sorry TP, ut We will be happy to recieve your report after this agenda item, my mistake :/ 2008/03/16 12:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: np 2008/03/16 12:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry to interrupt 2008/03/16 12:23 Bromo Ivory is Online 2008/03/16 12:24 Patroklus Murakami: sure, as i pointed out to brian though this is not the most current version of my amendments 2008/03/16 12:24 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (5m) 2008/03/16 12:25 Patroklus Murakami: fortunately the only difference is a point of clarification on the size of the RA i.e. that it applies from next term onwards (and does not affect this current RA) 2008/03/16 12:25 Patroklus Murakami: my first amendment is on paragraph 1 of beathan's ra process bill on 7 day votes 2008/03/16 12:25 Patroklus Murakami: My objection to this part of the RA Process Bill is fairly simple. It's redundant. This is already the rule in operation. I see no great benefit in repeating it in the RA Procedures. 2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: The alternative is much worse though. This introduces the idea of 'excused absences' i.e. the idea that other RA members, who will be political opponents, should get to decide whether an RA members' absence is authorised or not. 2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: This gives the RA members who are able to attend a meeting the option of disenfranchising an RA member who cannot attend the meeting. 2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: This is wide open to abuse and should be rejected. 2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: That's all 🙂 2008/03/16 12:26 Beathan Vale: I recommend voting on this paragraph by paragraph 2008/03/16 12:27 Beathan Vale: and I prefer 1 to alternative 1 2008/03/16 12:27 Sonja Strom: What is the primary reason for allowing 7-day votes? 2008/03/16 12:27 Brian Livingston: I have updated the notecard dispensor to have the updated card fom Pat. Appologies for the mixup folks 2008/03/16 12:27 Sonja Strom: ok, thanks Brian. 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: i like that we vote in public and we dont want to not be able to tdo things with multiple votes....like when we did the sim bill week before last.. that coudl not have been done if somone didnt vote then 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: im concerned too wit things like chancellor election etc. where the public wants to know 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: i am more concerend with that then someone disenfrachiseing 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: if they cant o be at the meeting then oh well 2008/03/16 12:28 Beathan Vale: but the forum is public as well 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: but its not the same beathan 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: these people are here to see things happen 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: not hear us dsiccus 2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: discuss 2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: they want to see votes havppen and things take place 2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: im adamant that we vote in session 2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: for the s citizens 2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: does any citizen have input now please? 2008/03/16 12:30 Patroklus Murakami: actually i don't want RA members always to vote in session, there are times when members can't make the meeting for perfectly valid reasons 2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: if they dont care then i dont 2008/03/16 12:30 Sonja Strom: I am inclined to agree with ThePrincess? there, unless there is a really good reason to have a 7-day voting time. 2008/03/16 12:30 Brian Livingston: I am not comfortable having to submit to the mery of the R.A. (in gnral, not specifically to my felow reps) to recieve an excused absence 2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: well pat of coruse they can have a 7 day if they are not here 2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: but if we are here we need to vote 2008/03/16 12:30 Beathan Vale: point of order — if the vote is 3/2 --does the matter pass — or does passage require 4 as if the RA had 7 members? 2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: like with the sim bill 2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: i think we still need the same passing rules 2008/03/16 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: the RA is the same size now, 2008/03/16 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: until the SC rules? 2008/03/16 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: idk 2008/03/16 12:31 Beathan Vale: I think the sim bill is an example of something that would have bene far better done on the fprums 2008/03/16 12:31 Sonja Strom: The voting for it? 2008/03/16 12:32 Beathan Vale: not necessarily — but poten tially 2008/03/16 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan.. you never answered my question about the Chancellor election.. can you imagine that being 7 day vote 2008/03/16 12:32 Dnate Mars: Once quarum is reached, things that require a majority vote to pass require the majority of people present 2008/03/16 12:32 Brian Livingston: Beathan: I believe the same rules apply, where 4 is passing given the RA is still 7 seats. 2008/03/16 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: and i wonder about that week before last wihen we did the sim.. we would still be on part A 2008/03/16 12:32 Beathan Vale: I think it was a 7 dat vote last term — no problem 2008/03/16 12:32 Sonja Strom: Thanks Dnate! 2008/03/16 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: no last term .. if we were here we had to vote 2008/03/16 12:32 Beathan Vale: thanks Dnate 2008/03/16 12:32 Brian Livingston: Thanks Dnate 2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: WHEN WE WERE HERE LAST TERM, WE HAD TO VOTE 2008/03/16 12:33 Beathan Vale: I might be misremembering — but i don't see a problem there 2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what i was told ... 2008/03/16 12:33 Beathan Vale: TP — that was a mistake PAt made — once — and then he apologized 2008/03/16 12:33 Brian Livingston: Princess, please do not yell in the meeting. 2008/03/16 12:33 Moon Adamant is Offline 2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: well it was in place all session 2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry i hit g caps brian 2008/03/16 12:33 Dnate Mars: Usually with 7-day votes that would make it be 4, however the 2 vacant seats cause it to drop to 3 2008/03/16 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: whatever thats what i think 2008/03/16 12:34 Beathan Vale: no — it wasn't — Pat checked and corrected the rul e-- he has said so many times 2008/03/16 12:34 Sonja Strom: true, and apologised more than once too. 2008/03/16 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i thought that most of the ssession and i like it that way, 2008/03/16 12:34 Beathan Vale: Dnate — I agree 2008/03/16 12:34 Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan, i think i have clarified that publicly at least three times now 🙂 2008/03/16 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: the point is just that i like it that way.. all im saying 2008/03/16 12:35 Beathan Vale: kk — that is fair TP 2008/03/16 12:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with pat 2008/03/16 12:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks 2008/03/16 12:35 Beathan Vale: but I still prefer the 7 day process — esspicially considering we have live iRL and live in various timezones 2008/03/16 12:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: but beathan you never answered my two example concerns and you and i have disucssed this at least ten times 2008/03/16 12:36 Beathan Vale: and I share Pat's oncerns about the manipulation of exsuing absences 2008/03/16 12:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: gimme a break 2008/03/16 12:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: so the faction votes them out 2008/03/16 12:36 Beathan Vale: TP — I have — I see no problem whatso ever in either bcase 2008/03/16 12:36 Sonja Strom: I don't like the "excused absences" concept because that would become too political. I think either we should allow 7-day votes for everything, like apparently we do now, or require the voters to be present in the meeting (no-show, no vote). 2008/03/16 12:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree sonja 2008/03/16 12:37 Beathan Vale: I think anythign that can be done her can be done in 7 day votes — and all citizens have a chance to watch the process either way 2008/03/16 12:37 MT Lundquist: i dont like excused absences either 2008/03/16 12:37 Brian Livingston: I agreew ith Beahtan on this point 2008/03/16 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: no .. you gtell me how the chancellor election looks.. and how week before last looks.. ? answer me.. 2008/03/16 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: we would have no sim bill passed yet 2008/03/16 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: and the chancellor .. we had an audience 2008/03/16 12:37 Sonja Strom: Is there a way we could ask which the majority of citizens would prefer? Maybe we could put this to a referendum? 2008/03/16 12:37 Beathan Vale: TP — and that might not be a bad thing-- that matter felt rushed 2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: sounds good to me 2008/03/16 12:38 Bromo Ivory nods to SOnja 2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: sonja 2008/03/16 12:38 Beathan Vale: but — I think we wouldhave a sim bill passed 2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. read the transcripts 2008/03/16 12:38 Beathan Vale: by now — it has been longer then 7 days 2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: we did it in five steps 2008/03/16 12:38 Beathan Vale: I like the rulel — quarum require din world, but people who can't attend get to vote on the forums — otherwise we disenfranchise people the voters chose 2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with sonja.. this point for me is about the public i wish they would tell us what they think 2008/03/16 12:39 Sophrosyne Stenvaag is Online 2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: so i can be in the RA and never attend a meeting? 2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: flubber skitttels 2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: i hate it 2008/03/16 12:39 Beathan Vale: TP — and I proposed that process — which wa sugly and confuing — I consider that a failed experiement in RA voting, even though it got things done 2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. i understand 2008/03/16 12:39 Beathan Vale: my multivote process has bene widely and fairly criticized by the citizens 2008/03/16 12:39 Flyingroc Chung: 7-day votes worked really well before 2008/03/16 12:40 Beathan Vale: agree FR 2008/03/16 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. i will vote fro your proposal.. 2008/03/16 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: the first point you got me 2008/03/16 12:40 Beathan Vale: I call the question — on paragrpah 1 2008/03/16 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: if the citizens dont care then its fine with me 2008/03/16 12:41 Patroklus Murakami: hmm, shouldn't you take the vote on the amendment first? 2008/03/16 12:41 Sonja Strom: Well, I have to say that not very many people outside the RA commented on this proposal in the Forums. So, maybe it is not that important to them either way. 2008/03/16 12:41 Beathan Vale: we can change it easily if the citizens object — and this will not end inwolrd meetings — we still need a quorum inwolrd 2008/03/16 12:41 Sonja Strom: True Beathan. 2008/03/16 12:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ill shut up 2008/03/16 12:41 Beathan Vale: no — TP — you are an RA member — never shut up 😉 2008/03/16 12:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 2008/03/16 12:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: only for now 2008/03/16 12:42 Beathan Vale: I move passage of paragrph 1 2008/03/16 12:42 Sonja Strom: ThePrincess?, would you like an ashtray? 2008/03/16 12:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 12:42 Patroklus Murakami: point of order mr chairman. shouldn't you take votes on the amendments rather than the paragraphs? 2008/03/16 12:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 no thanks ill pu tit out hun 2008/03/16 12:42 Patroklus Murakami: how do you intend to handle the vote? 2008/03/16 12:42 Sonja Strom: 🙂 2008/03/16 12:43 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Pip Torok (18m) 2008/03/16 12:43 Beathan Vale: OK — I move that we reject all amendments 2008/03/16 12:43 Beathan Vale: to paragraph 1 I mean 2008/03/16 12:43 Brian Livingston is running at a 5 sond lag here... one se, I hae to scroll back. 2008/03/16 12:43 MT Lundquist: second 2008/03/16 12:43 Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see beathan 🙂 2008/03/16 12:43 Sonja Strom is experiencing lag also 2008/03/16 12:43 Beathan Vale: me too 2008/03/16 12:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh no sonja 2008/03/16 12:44 Brian Livingston: A motion is on the table to reject all proposed amendments to the RA process bill. An Aye vote is in favor of rejeting hte proposed amendments, ay vote will sustain the amamendments. 2008/03/16 12:44 Beathan Vale: so — move that we reject all amendments and alternatives to paragra ph 1 2008/03/16 12:44 Brian Livingston: nay vote will sustain the amendments* 2008/03/16 12:44 Beathan Vale: BL — only on paragraph 1 2008/03/16 12:45 Beathan Vale: I think we need to consider the other proposals across from their paragraphs 2008/03/16 12:45 Beathan Vale: sorry for breaking the motion as I did 2008/03/16 12:45 Sonja Strom: Are we voting on the motion? 2008/03/16 12:45 Brian Livingston: I agree, was going with the proposal that was seconded. The motion was to reject all amendments, without mention of the specific paragraph 2008/03/16 12:46 Sonja Strom: ok 2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok 2008/03/16 12:46 Beathan Vale: OK — fair enough 2008/03/16 12:46 Brian Livingston: I suggest resbumitting hte otion after this ote. Members, your votes please 2008/03/16 12:46 Patroklus Murakami: but you havent' debated teh amendments 2008/03/16 12:46 Beathan Vale: I did move it that way ... 2008/03/16 12:46 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 12:46 Patroklus Murakami: are you going to reject all my amendments without debate? 2008/03/16 12:46 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes 2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat 2008/03/16 12:46 Sonja Strom: I think we should go paragraph by paragraph... 2008/03/16 12:46 Brian Livingston: nay 2008/03/16 12:47 Sonja Strom: nay 2008/03/16 12:47 Beathan Vale: 3/2 for aye 2008/03/16 12:47 Beathan Vale: that should speed things up 2008/03/16 12:47 Patroklus Murakami: so the RA doesn't debate proposals from citizens any more? 2008/03/16 12:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: its been on the forum a while pat 2008/03/16 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: shhh 2008/03/16 12:48 Beathan Vale: and RA members can offer amendments from the floor — so Sonja and Brian — if you want to take up any of Pat's amendments, you can repropose them as they come up 2008/03/16 12:48 Sonja Strom: ok 2008/03/16 12:48 Beathan Vale: Pat — I think we have a more efficeint way of handling this — if your amendments have RA support, we will take them up — otherwise, why waste tie on them? 2008/03/16 12:48 Beathan Vale: I move passage of paragraph 1 2008/03/16 12:48 Patroklus Murakami: i think it's a shocking attempt to stifle debate 2008/03/16 12:49 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Gwyneth Llewelyn (19m) 2008/03/16 12:49 Bromo Ivory is less shocked than Pat 2008/03/16 12:50 Yogeswari Padar is shocked and concerned 2008/03/16 12:50 Beathan Vale: there has been plenty of debagte on the forums — we need to make sure the RA wokrs through its agenda as efficiently as possible 2008/03/16 12:50 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Primus Llewellyn (14m) 2008/03/16 12:50 Sonja Strom wonders why the CDSF resigned from the RA 2008/03/16 12:50 Bromo Ivory checks and find a car battery and a transformer explaining why everyone is socked 2008/03/16 12:50 Beathan Vale: so why should we consider something that does not have RA support? 2008/03/16 12:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: so is this meta debate 2008/03/16 12:50 Bromo Ivory notices no difference before and after, SOnja 2008/03/16 12:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: debate about the debate we arent debating 2008/03/16 12:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: productive 2008/03/16 12:51 Jon Seattle: In relation to what Beathan said, I would point out that it is possible that debate (including things that citizen's say) can influence the votes of RA members. In the past we have always allowed citizens to have their say. 2008/03/16 12:51 Beathan Vale: I have mmoved passage of paragraph 1 — is there a second? 2008/03/16 12:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 12:51 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Primus Llewellyn (18m) 2008/03/16 12:51 Patroklus Murakami decline This Week In Extropia: Week Ending March 23, 2008 from A group member named Sophrosyne Stenvaag. 2008/03/16 12:51 Beathan Vale: Jon — and we will — but only based on what the RA puts forward for debate — the RA has the right and ned to control its own debate 2008/03/16 12:52 Brian Livingston: Membrs, your votes please for passag e paragraph 1 2008/03/16 12:52 Beathan Vale: of course — we now have an open discussion perod for citizens to speak freely as well 2008/03/16 12:52 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 12:52 Sonja Strom thinks about how the interaction between the RA and non-RA members seems very similar to a couple of weeks ago... 2008/03/16 12:52 Brian Livingston: aye 2008/03/16 12:52 corbusier office chair w/sit target whispers: Angle is: ,,; xyz is: ,, 2008/03/16 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 12:53 Flyingroc Chung: tsk, gwyn disrupting the RA meeting 😉 2008/03/16 12:53 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: she has a sword FR 2008/03/16 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: a big knife 2008/03/16 12:54 Beathan Vale: the sword of Justice 2008/03/16 12:54 Beathan Vale: keeping us honest 2008/03/16 12:54 Sonja Strom: I liked Pat's suggested amendment, but it would not have changed things enough for me to vote against paragraph 1 entirely, so "aye." 2008/03/16 12:54 Brian Livingston: Sonja, your ote? 2008/03/16 12:54 Brian Livingston: NM 2008/03/16 12:54 Office Chair, Yellow whispers: Angle is: 0,0,0; xyz is: 0.1,0.0,0.0 2008/03/16 12:55 Brian Livingston: We are taking this paragraph by paragraph, so there will e opportunities for citizens and RA members alike to comment as we proccede and for amendments to be made on speific paragraphs 2008/03/16 12:55 Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles and listens only 2008/03/16 12:55 Delia Lake: just curious here, and i may be mis-reading as i had to step away form the keyboard for a bit. does this conversation mean, for instance, that if a petition had the support of 50 CDS citizens and not the support or interest of the RA, that the petition would not be heard? 2008/03/16 12:55 Beathan Vale: PAragraph 2 will delay passage of legislation -- 2008/03/16 12:56 Sonja Strom is glad that there is a member of the justice security team present 2008/03/16 12:56 Beathan Vale: Delia — I have proposed an initiative and referndum process to fix that — but at the moment we have no process for citizen petititons 2008/03/16 12:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i think delia that if the citizens cared if we voted in session i would have voted for it 2008/03/16 12:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: but no one ansered me anytime i asked 2008/03/16 12:56 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Parsley Ninetails (18m) 2008/03/16 12:56 Beathan Vale: we are a pure representative democracy atm — so, yes — but RA members would be foolish to disregard such a thing 2008/03/16 12:57 Patroklus Murakami: i'd like to speak against paragraph 2 at some point, if i may 2008/03/16 12:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: i always consider the citizens but honestly i dont get as much input on things as i would like 2008/03/16 12:57 Sonja Strom: I definitely want for us to work on having a referendum and initiative capability in the CDS. 2008/03/16 12:57 MT Lundquist: anything that held the interest of 50 citizens would hold the interest of the RA i'm sure 2008/03/16 12:57 Beathan Vale: I have no strong feelings on paragraph 2 — it tracks RL process and allows the RA to more carefully consider things — so the balance is between speed vs. care 2008/03/16 12:57 Naftali Torok is Offline 2008/03/16 12:57 Delia Lake: this seems to me to be a structural problem that needs to be corrected 2008/03/16 12:58 Brian Livingston: Let's return to paragraph 2. Pat, your thoughts? 2008/03/16 12:58 Beathan Vale: I would like to hear citizne and RA opinions on this one 2008/03/16 12:58 Jon Seattle agrees with Delia 2008/03/16 12:58 Sonja Strom: I think we should let Patroklus speak about what he wants in regard to it. 2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: It's a good idea to consider legislation at more than one RA meeting. In fact that's what usually happens and there's no real need for this bureaucratic way of ensuring that legislation gets a full airing. 2008/03/16 12:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are wroing on it deila 2008/03/16 12:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: if you wanna work on a bill ..we can do that 2008/03/16 12:58 Beathan Vale: Delia - -I agree - please work with me aon the initiative Referendum bill 2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: The problem with the proposal is that the loopholes are so large you could drive a truck through them! 2008/03/16 12:58 Bromo Ivory thinks Pat requires no invite to speak his mind 2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: The proposal says this restriction will not apply to 'emergency bills' but what are emergency bills? They're not defined anywhere in our constitution or laws. Who gets to decide what is an emergency and what is not? 2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: bromo, i was invited to speak 2008/03/16 12:59 Bromo Ivory: I know 2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: What if a bill changes substantially between the first and second reading? Presumably this is expected as issues raised at the first reading will lead to alterations. What if that changes more than 50% of the text? Is it a new bill needing a new first reading or not? 2008/03/16 12:59 Bromo Ivory: I meant to be complimentary but it came out wrong - sorry 2008/03/16 12:59 Jon Seattle: Beathan, it would also be a good idea to respect past traditions regarding allowing citizens to speak. 2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: What if an amendment seeks to delete all the text and replace it with a proposal that goes in an entirely new direction? Does that need a second reading too? 2008/03/16 12:59 Beathan Vale: True — iRL the Legislature has the power to declare an emergency — but the definition here could and shoudl be left to the SC 😉 2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: This proposal has not been thought through properly and should be rejected on that basis. 2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: that's all 🙂 2008/03/16 12:59 Beathan Vale: hmm — Pat — I haven't considered the amendment issue 2008/03/16 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you for your input, bu t we don t have to vote on the second reading .. it just says we have to have them 2008/03/16 13:00 MT Lundquist: Pat does have a point here 2008/03/16 13:00 Beathan Vale: I am inclined to agree that we should not pass this in its current form — but we need to consider it further 2008/03/16 13:00 Brian Livingston: Pat brings up some very valid points regaring the proposal. 2008/03/16 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: so a bill coudl be endlessely stalled by stealth by RA members that might want to distrupt things 2008/03/16 13:00 Gwyneth Llewelyn likes to hear that some people still have good sense in the RA 😉 2008/03/16 13:01 Beathan Vale: So — I move to reintroduce Pat's amendment deleting paragraph 2 2008/03/16 13:01 Alexicon Kurka is Online 2008/03/16 13:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, please disregard my sarcastic comment. 2008/03/16 13:01 Flyingroc Chung: in the past there have been some bills which were both simple and had broad agreement. In these cases I dont know that having 2 sessions to vote for it is effificent. 2008/03/16 13:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: something that your faction worries about 2008/03/16 13:01 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Dodo Alekseev (19m) 2008/03/16 13:01 MT Lundquist: surely we just vote against the para 2 if we dont want it 2008/03/16 13:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: makes sense 2008/03/16 13:01 Naftali Torok is Online 2008/03/16 13:01 Beathan Vale: ok — then I move for a vote on paragraph 2 2008/03/16 13:01 Sonja Strom: second 2008/03/16 13:02 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Parsley Ninetails (12m) 2008/03/16 13:02 Brian Livingston: Members, yoyr ote on Paragraph 2 of the proposal please: 2008/03/16 13:02 Beathan Vale: nay 2008/03/16 13:02 Brian Livingston: your votes* 2008/03/16 13:02 MT Lundquist: nay 2008/03/16 13:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain 2008/03/16 13:03 Sonja Strom: nay 2008/03/16 13:03 Brian Livingston: nay 2008/03/16 13:03 Brian Livingston: 0/4/1, the motiondoes not pass 2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: Paragraph 3 primarily changes the way legislation is proposed and publicized 2008/03/16 13:04 Brian Livingston: Err, paragarph 2008/03/16 13:04 Brian Livingston: Moving on to Paragraph 3 2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: brbr — dod needs to be let out 2008/03/16 13:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: where is emergency defined and who decides 2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: Paragraph 3 is fairly complex and multifaceted 2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: we should striek the refernece to emergency — as it relates to paragrph 2 2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you 2008/03/16 13:05 Beathan Vale: again — this one needs work — we should not pass it yet — but it should be passsed at some point 2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: noo its good 2008/03/16 13:05 Brian Livingston: I am not ray about loing a fixed eeting time into the RA procedures 2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats the only problem i have with it 2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: anyone else? 2008/03/16 13:06 Patroklus Murakami: would any RA members like to reintroduce my amendment three which refers to this paragraph so it can be considered? 2008/03/16 13:06 MT Lundquist: why dont we have a fixed timescale but based on the meeting date 2008/03/16 13:06 Brian Livingston: argh that should have been that I am not razy about paragraph 3, altgh I would like to reconsider Pat's propsal 2008/03/16 13:06 Brian Livingston: regarding paragarph 3 2008/03/16 13:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: what dont you like about it brian? 2008/03/16 13:07 Brian Livingston: It would create a mehanism for RA membrs to alter the agenda on the day of hte meeting, sets out hte responsibility for the initial agenda to the LRA and sets responsible and feasible timeframes ofr publishing hte draft agenda 2008/03/16 13:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 2008/03/16 13:08 Brian Livingston: Err, I misread TP's omment, that is what I do like about pat's proposal 2008/03/16 13:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: np i get it 2008/03/16 13:08 Bromo Ivory is Offline 2008/03/16 13:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: i dont like pats i like beathans 2008/03/16 13:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: its important.. 2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: The prolem with PAt's proposal is that it prevents the RA from controlling its own agenda — and laves that power with the LRA — which has caused terrible problems win both this session and thelast 2008/03/16 13:09 MT Lundquist: i agree with beathan 2008/03/16 13:09 Patroklus Murakami: could i speak in favour of my amendment? 2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: I would vote for the proposal over Pat's amendment — but I think it sill needs some work 2008/03/16 13:10 Brian Livingston: Go ahead Pat 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: Setting the agenda for RA meetings is an important and quite tricky task. It would be quite easy, under Beathan's proposal, for the start of RA meetings to be dominated by arguments over the order of the agenda and procedural motions to alter it. 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is impossible, as LRA, to satisfy everyone's desires when setting the agenda. If every faction wants their proposal to go first you're in for an unproductive row every time. 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is right that the LRA, as leader of the most popular faction with the electorate, should have the power to set the agenda for meetings. That is, after all, who the citizens have put into that position! 2008/03/16 13:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, did anyone consider extending the meeting time to 6 hours? 😉 ) 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: But it's also right that the RA should have greater powers to make changes if that power is abused if, for example, an LRA keeps an item s/he doesn't want discussed at the bottom of the agenda. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That's why my amendment allows the RA to alter the order of the agenda, at the start of the meeting, by a 2/3 majority. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: And it should be a 2/3 majority in my opinion. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: If you allow the RA to overrule the LRA with a simple majority you shift the balance of power too far in the opposite direction. 2008/03/16 13:11 Dnate Mars: I disagree, it should be a simple majority 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: It is virtually impossible to get a majority of seats in our RA with the current election rules. Even with a majority of the votes a faction will not get a majority of seats. 2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat we cant function out of paranoia.. thats what i see you consistently doing hun, i dont htink you have to worry about these things............. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That means that the minority parties could, acting in concert, put the majority factions' proposals at the bottom of the agenda at every meeting. That would run counter to the wishes of the voters. The RA should not 2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: we can vote out an RA member from a meeting if they are being unruly 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: enable the frustration of the electoral mandate given by the electorate. 2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: it is criticalthat the LRA not be able to bury items by putting them last on every agenda — so a rollign order, as I propsoe, is better than LRA control — further — no faction has a majority — so a supermajority is not necessary 2008/03/16 13:12 Dnate Mars: The LRA shouldn't be that powerful, they are just the ones that have to deal with procedure, not have the ablitiy to steer the RA as they see fit 2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks for letting us know how you think pat 2008/03/16 13:12 MT Lundquist: i see a simpole majority being sufficient 2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree Dnante 2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: given our borda count system --if any faction gets a majority, it will be the equivalent of a supermajority — so a mjority vote is proper 2008/03/16 13:12 Bjerkel Eerie: Princess you love to be unruly adn no noe ever votes you our LOL 2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: I move to amend the bjill by striking the sentence on emergency leglisation 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: BJ.. im still waiting! 2008/03/16 13:13 Sonja Strom: Thank you Patroklus. I like Patroklus' amendment, but do agree with Dnate that a simple majority should suffice. 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: second bethan 2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what you're mostly saying is that you don't really care how citizens vote (ie. whom the citizens want in power), but only how the meetings are run? 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: no we do.. gwyneth 2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: but the voting system cant go two ways only one 2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: Sonja — Pat's amendment is esssentially a deletion — how can you like the amendment and like elements of the proposal? 2008/03/16 13:13 MT Lundquist: citizens voted for all RA members 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont get to count them everyway you can and then do what you want 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're just going to vote on an amendment that will get a party with the majority of the votes no way to implement their election programme 2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: maybe I should re-read them, sorry... 2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we care about both, obviously — but in the RA we need to care aobut proceduresnad legialstion 2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gywn 2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedures are more important than the citizen's votes? 2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: indeed gwyn, that's what they're going to do 2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: in what we proposae and debate on the forums — that is where cirtizen involvement is best maximized and consdered 2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: there is a lot to keep track of going on at the moment 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, I'm shocked, lol 2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: they don't care about the citizens' vote 2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: so if you had one more vote than the next party you tink you get to run CDS 2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: just seats in the RA 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we're in the CDS ruled by the media, not by citizen's votes? 2008/03/16 13:14 MT Lundquist: the voting system and the seats in the RA dont work that way Pat 2008/03/16 13:14 Dnate Mars: That is a pretty heavy charge there Pat 2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'm just clarifying this, since it's definitely a constitutional issue then 🙂 ) 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what they learn in boot camp ithink 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: well you are saying your opionon gwyn 2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we have a representtive democracy here — we are ruled by the RA who are selected by a democratic process 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: not a fact 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan i agree 2008/03/16 13:15 MT Lundquist: so doi beathan 2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure it's my opinion. There was a REASON why we have a LRA, 2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: the citizens are represented by what the RA does — not by how it does it 2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a reason why we have a voting system that gets minority parties into the RA 2008/03/16 13:15 Patroklus Murakami: and you're enabling the minorities to frustrate the will of the people. why do you thnk we have an LRA? 2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a balance there. 2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're removing that balance 😀 2008/03/16 13:16 Flyingroc Chung: well, it depends on whether you see the party witht eh highest borda ranking as representative of the people, or the majority of the RA as being the representative of the people. 2008/03/16 13:16 Beathan Vale: so — can we consider my aqmendment to delete the sentence? 2008/03/16 13:16 Brian Livingston: Voting in this proposal is dangerous for th reasons Gwyn and Pat have made 2008/03/16 13:16 Dnate Mars: I disagree, I don't think the current system is really balanced 2008/03/16 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a difference in opionon.. you think the LRA has a big power over the CDS, we think he/ she should run the RA procedurally not control the outcomes 2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR ‚Äî what counts is how many citizens wish a certain faction's programme to be implemented. The way they're represented in the RA is less important. 2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: brb 2008/03/16 13:17 Bromo Ivory is Online 2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: I vote aye on my amendment 2008/03/16 13:17 Sonja Strom: Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying about negation, but Patroklus' amendment says this "Any alteration to the order of the agenda requires a 2/3 majority of the members present." Why could we not simply change this to be "...majority of the members present."? 2008/03/16 13:17 ThePrincess? Parisi: and with your RA seats you can do that gwyn 2008/03/16 13:17 Jon Seattle Agrees with Gwyn 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Princess 2008/03/16 13:17 Patroklus Murakami: no TP, we think the LRA power shoudl be balanced, you want to remove any power at all from the most popular faction 2008/03/16 13:17 MT Lundquist: the voting system we have and the RA seat do not support that view gwyn 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: more than 50% of the people voted on the CSDF 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah MT 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does, 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the majority of the citizens will pick the LRA, 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (indirectly, as the "Most Voted Party") 2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you want to have your cake and eat it too? i dont have more votes than sonja? 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: no we had a 2 2 2 1 party seat distribution 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the LRA sets the agenda 😉 2008/03/16 13:18 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (18m) 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT ‚Äî yes, but more than 50% of the votes were on the CSDF 😉 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: and an agenda that is voted down is useless 2008/03/16 13:18 Flyingroc Chung: Gwyn, it's essentially the same thing, we assume that the rest of the ra is there as a check against the faction in power railroading policies that may have weak support 2008/03/16 13:18 Patroklus Murakami: the LRA only has one vote TP 🙂 same as other RA members 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have a system where the RA gets minority parties a large representation ‚Äî deliberately 2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: but this is about the big picture not just this election but the future of CDS gywn 2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: dont you understand 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *exactly*, Princess 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh ‚Äî I do, 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember, 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: exactly gwyn 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: thats the system 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the current RA procedures were set upin 2004, 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: when we discussed this issue *precisely* 2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and the CSDF withdrew — I have said repeatedly that we need to considere the will of the voters and work to pass the CSDF agenda even wihtout the participation of hte CSDF 2008/03/16 13:19 ThePrincess? Parisi: and they dont work if you have a faction with no candidates 2008/03/16 13:19 Brian Livingston: But the assignment of hte LRA to the highest ranked party is representative of the voters' confidence in that party's platfor and leadership. This proposal would reduce their (the itizens') input and influene on that importnat balane 2008/03/16 13:19 Jon Seattle: FR, there is already a check in place. The RA (as is aparent) can vote to change the rules if it likes. 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: for a LONG time ‚Äî and without drama even (weren't we nice?) 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Brian.... 2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: again — it is the waht that matters, not the how — as long as the how owrks — and it has ceased working, we are doing our jobs 2008/03/16 13:19 Dnate Mars: Ok, but if there is a case where only the ruling party didn't want something, they can denine what the citizens want because of teh control over teh adjenda 2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: exacly Dnate 2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my guys 2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: brian its reduced, but not taken away fully 2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: i believe we are discussing the para 3 item 2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: not the role of the LRA 2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: the LRA still has power 2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes — the LRA is only incidental here 2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: my proposal would prevent that kind of abuse dnate. a 2/3 majority could override the LRA 2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: simple majority unbalances the situation 2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the faction that won the elections with a majority of the votes is NOT fullfilling their voters' wishes, they're voted out of the RA next elections 😉 2008/03/16 13:20 Flyingroc Chung: I thik the idea of giving minority factions a large representation in the RA was exactly to foster collaboration, rather than allowing the faction in power to force their agenda through. 2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes 2008/03/16 13:21 Dnate Mars: yes, but 2/3rd is too high, a simple majority should suffice 2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: what if the faction with the majority only had one more vote than the next one.. does that still make sense though? 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dnate 2008/03/16 13:21 MT Lundquist: simple majority i favour that 2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: Dnate — yes 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Think how the votes are allocated 2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: simple majority is fine 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess: yes 2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: given our method — a mjoriyy is the equivalent of 1/3 2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: 2/3 I mean 2008/03/16 13:21 Patroklus Murakami: no it's not! 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not at all, Beathan! 2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes it is 2008/03/16 13:21 Bromo Ivory: How does one prevent someone from obstructing procedurally - or would we allow that filibuster style? 2008/03/16 13:22 Dnate Mars: I am, and I am thinking of the reason we have set it up the way we have, like FR said, it was done so no party coudl force their adjenda 2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: the minority parties are &*over-rprepresented! 2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh guys ‚Äî do your maths first, please 2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: and what if the LRA was to obstruct that is MY concern 2008/03/16 13:22 Beathan Vale: For a party to win a mjority , it would need supermajority support — so a majority is the equivalent of an electoral 2/3 2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: BALANCE balance balance balance 2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat ‚Äî but they are *deliberately* over-represented; the 'check' comes from the LRA actually.... 2008/03/16 13:22 MT Lundquist: that is the voting system if and until it is changed 2008/03/16 13:22 Bromo Ivory: Well with the election method we go for the median opinion not the majority 2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: it's the other way round beathan, a group of minority parties can have a a majority in the RA ona minority vote 2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: this is a voting systme issue you have i agree 2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: that's what's unbalanced about what you propose 2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: do the maths 2008/03/16 13:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's not a "voting issue", the system was set up that way *deliberately*... 2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: jons maths? .. lol 2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: Pat — but your concern was factioanl infighting — not thefear of a coalition of minority parties 2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi nods 2008/03/16 13:23 Dnate Mars: it is a brithish thing 😛 2008/03/16 13:23 Jon Seattle: Yes, the LRA is not an accedental part of the current system. And I see the push to replace it with one that is far less equitable. 2008/03/16 13:23 Bromo Ivory: There is no issue with the borda/st Legume 2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: no MT is british its not british 2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: we encourage coalitions with a majority vote — so a 2/3 vote is not necessaru 2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: no beathan a coaltion of minorties is precisely my concern 2008/03/16 13:24 Bromo Ivory: Agreed Beathan - provided we have some sort of anti-filibuster clause 2008/03/16 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you wish to change the election system at the same time you wish to remove the role of the LRA... in that case, I'd be ok with that 2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: one that overrides the majority party due to the oddness of our electoral system 2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: well that would have more seats in the RA voting together Pat 2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: But that same collition can shut down the votes anyway 2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: thats how the syetem works 2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: it is illegitimate to be afraid of a coalition of minorities — that is the best check on the dictatorship of a majority 2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are not removing it we are toning it down 2008/03/16 13:24 Flyingroc Chung: the possiblity of a tyranny of the majority is my concern 2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: you still need the majority to pass anything 2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi thinks.. hmm dictatorship.. 2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: of course — preventing that should be the SC's job — but I am justgifiably skeptical of the SC here 2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: i agree with FR and beathan 2008/03/16 13:24 Brian Livingston: If the Llra WAS TUELY MISUISING HIS POWER, i COULD ONLY ASSUME THAT HTE MINORITY PARTIES WOULD WORK TOGEATHER TO ADD ITESM TO THE AGENDA WITH THE 2/3RDS VOTE REUIRED BY THE PROPOSED ALTERNATIVE. 2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what i fear too beathan 2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: so you exchange LRA 'tyranny' wth 'minority party' tyranny. well done! 2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston: ck, sorry for hte caps 2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: exactly brian 2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: yay brian 2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Beathan... that argument, I'm sorry, it's simply out of order! In democracies, majorities decide 🙂 2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: so, if you have a collition of minorites, they can still stop anything from passing 2008/03/16 13:25 Bromo Ivory: Pat - thats not true - we make it the median opinion as the rule 2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston hates the positioning of his Caps 2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: what the LRA would do is ensure that nothing gets done 2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What's the "median opinion", Bromo? ^ 2008/03/16 13:25 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and in free societies thsat respect civil rights, we have to respect minority rights — democracy is not enough, we need free democracies 2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: we want the power balanced in the RA and in CDS as a whole 2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dnate: and get thrown out of office on the following term 2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: but you're allowing the minority to dictate to teh majority, that's not democracy! 2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, we DO respect minorities. So much, in fact, that they get over-represented in the RA ‚Äî rdeliberately so! 2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: well if you have no candidates you cant get removed from office 2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: We do have a weakness where the LRA's faction is in a minority, and also does not command a majority of votes 2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: 5 seats to 2 is a majority pat 2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: if the vote went that way 2008/03/16 13:26 Dnate Mars: Sure, so why does the LRA get to force their adjenda with no way for anyone to stop them? 2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: Then that faction gets piossed off and resigns 2008/03/16 13:26 Flyingroc Chung: Also, it's silly, given or voting system, to talk about majorities 2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: MT, duh, what about the votes of the citizens? 2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: for whichever party 2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer 2008/03/16 13:26 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — how are they resepcted if they are overrepresented, but then disparaged as being minorities 2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: So - that is not a good outcome 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted fro BJ.. !!1 2008/03/16 13:27 Alexicon Kurka is Offline 2008/03/16 13:27 MT Lundquist: then argue to change the voting system 2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: the RA should be self-governing 2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wordplay, Beathan, wordplay 🙂 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted for BJERKEL 2008/03/16 13:27 Brian Livingston: There is a way to otp them with the proposed alternative, with a 2/3rds ote to add an item to the genda 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: what about that!!! 2008/03/16 13:27 Patroklus Murakami: 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer<------- attempt to start a fight? provocation? 2008/03/16 13:27 Dnate Mars: It won't be that hard for a party to get 1/3 of the RA seats, ensuring they are always goin gto get their adjenda and no one else heard 2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No,they voted for her party, Princess. 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. !!! 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes its all MYFAULT 2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: no — TP — this one is my fault 2008/03/16 13:28 Jon Seattle: what Bromo is trying to say here, I think, is that minorities should have power if they beleive they represent a "silent majority" 2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^ 2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds... dangerous 2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: no its not anyoens fault it is common sense its what we were voted in to do and remain loyal to CDS to do 2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: OK — can we table this matter and move on — I will try to represent another proposal with proposals 2008/03/16 13:28 Bromo Ivory: No - just a coalition of parties could create a frustrating deadlock 2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: alternatives and disambiguation 2008/03/16 13:28 Dnate Mars: I think that 2/3 is way to high to be able to overturn the adjenda 2008/03/16 13:28 Brian Livingston: Ok, this issue really isn't looking like it is oming to a point wher we cn vote on it. 2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree brian 2008/03/16 13:28 Alexicon Kurka is Online 2008/03/16 13:28 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Aragon Porta (19m) 2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, Bromo, the wise people in the past *have* devised a check on that situation 😉 2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: I withdraw paragrpah 3 and will represent 2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: i would like to vote on para 3 2008/03/16 13:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: second MT 2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: if we use your logic, why do we still require a majority to pass laws? 2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: OK — we can vote on para 3 2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: Gywn, we have many wise people here today too 2008/03/16 13:29 Patroklus Murakami: shouldn't you vote on the amendment first? 2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: but I would like to vote on my amendment fixing the emergency section firswt 2008/03/16 13:29 Brian Livingston: It i unwise to vote on this proposl until we get a bit more of a onsensus 2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: ok i second beathan 2008/03/16 13:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye on emergency 2008/03/16 13:30 Yogeswari Padar is Offline 2008/03/16 13:30 Gwyneth Llewelyn: The "logic" here is that while the faction winning a *majority* of votes is allowed to bring up the agenda for discussion, it will seldom have enough votes to pass it and has to compromise with the minority factions... 2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: aye on removing emergency sentence 2008/03/16 13:30 MT Lundquist: aye on removing emergency 2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — that is a heck on the amjority agenda — but it is not a check on the majority prevenitng consideration of a minority agenda 2008/03/16 13:31 Ashcroft Burnham is Offline 2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: Folks, we'e in the middle ofa ote, can we have order please 2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: aye 2008/03/16 13:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:31 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:31 Jon Seattle is Offline 2008/03/16 13:31 Patroklus Murakami: what are you voting on now? the paragraph? what about the amendment? 2008/03/16 13:31 Dnate Mars: Will the LRA always have teh majority support since they are not directly elected? Even within a party they just get the most votes, not a majority 2008/03/16 13:32 Brian Livingston: the ote is to remove the sentence referenceing hte emergency legislation 2008/03/16 13:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: shh pat we are voting on getting the emergency wording out 2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: we are voting on the amendment 2008/03/16 13:32 Patroklus Murakami: LOL. seems there's some confusion! 2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: no — the Ra was not confused 2008/03/16 13:32 Sonja Strom: sorry, i am behind in reading the chat -be here soon 2008/03/16 13:32 MT Lundquist: no pat 2008/03/16 13:33 Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess's hand. 2008/03/16 13:33 Jon Seattle is Online 2008/03/16 13:33 Conover's Flight-Helper? 6.2.5.2 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational. 2008/03/16 13:33 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Jon Seattle (3m) 2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: The amendment has passed already - - can we move on? 2008/03/16 13:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: pweeese 2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: Sonja — can abstain 2008/03/16 13:35 Brian Livingston: We need Snoja's vote either way or her request for 7 day 2008/03/16 13:35 Sonja Strom: OK, I will abstain, because I can't figure out exactly what the vote is for. 2008/03/16 13:36 Naftali Torok is Offline 2008/03/16 13:36 Flyingroc Chung: removing reference to emergency in beathan's paragraph 3 2008/03/16 13:36 Beathan Vale: I move to pass paragaph 3 as amended to remove the sentence about nonemergecny measures 2008/03/16 13:36 MT Lundquist: ok i propose we vote on para 3 now 2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: I move to table paragraph 3 to the forums for futrhter discussion 2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: Ergh.... too late 2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: ahem. what about the amendment to paragraph 3 i proposed? 2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: aww 2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: shhh pat 2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: surely you should take that vote first? 2008/03/16 13:37 MT Lundquist: that was vored out at the start pat 2008/03/16 13:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat you resigned hun 2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Pat — already rejected and not reintroduced 2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: point of order mr chairman 2008/03/16 13:37 Sonja Strom: so we are voting on Paragraph 3, without having any changes to it? 2008/03/16 13:37 Naftali Torok is Online 2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: i thought brian reintroduced the amendment to para 3? 2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Sonja — no sentence on nonemergency measure is removed 2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: Pat is orrect, I had reintroduced the paragraph 2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: I don't think so — at least no second 2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: err, amendment at hte outset of discussiopn 2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: no second I think 2008/03/16 13:38 Patroklus Murakami: do the RA procedures require a seconder? i'm not sure they do 2008/03/16 13:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt hear one 2008/03/16 13:38 MT Lundquist: me neither 2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: Pat — that is revisionistic history of a Clintonian form 2008/03/16 13:39 Dnate Mars: I am pretty sure they do 2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps you should check? 2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry i dont recall 2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: you can poll the Ra member for whther this topic is ready for voting 2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: ra members 2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can you please stop logjamming the RA 2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: if I'm reading th latest procedures 2008/03/16 13:39 Sonja Strom: Thanks FR. 2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: it's a legitimate question. whether you are using the procedures or not 2008/03/16 13:39 Beathan Vale: the RA has always ha second procedure — if the rules don't provide, it specifically, the history of the RA does — and this is anther sign that we need better and more fetailed and complete rules 2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: im ready to vote 2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: is sonja ready 2008/03/16 13:40 Sonja Strom: yes 2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: we have moved and seconded a vote on paragrph 4 as amended 2008/03/16 13:40 Brian Livingston: I am not 2008/03/16 13:40 MT Lundquist: para 3 2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: oops — para 3 I mena 2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: i call for a seven day then for brian 2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: second 2008/03/16 13:41 Dnate Mars: there is only 20 minutes left 2008/03/16 13:41 Sonja Strom: nay 2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: ty dnate 2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:41 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 13:41 Brian Livingston: you can't request a 7 day for another member...\ 2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: lol 2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: The prolem with PAt's proposal is that it prevents the RA from controlling its own agenda — and laves that power with the LRA — which has caused terrible problems win both this session and thelast 2008/03/16 13:09 MT Lundquist: i agree with beathan 2008/03/16 13:09 Patroklus Murakami: could i speak in favour of my amendment? 2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: I would vote for the proposal over Pat's amendment — but I think it sill needs some work 2008/03/16 13:10 Brian Livingston: Go ahead Pat 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: Setting the agenda for RA meetings is an important and quite tricky task. It would be quite easy, under Beathan's proposal, for the start of RA meetings to be dominated by arguments over the order of the agenda and procedural motions to alter it. 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is impossible, as LRA, to satisfy everyone's desires when setting the agenda. If every faction wants their proposal to go first you're in for an unproductive row every time. 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is right that the LRA, as leader of the most popular faction with the electorate, should have the power to set the agenda for meetings. That is, after all, who the citizens have put into that position! 2008/03/16 13:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, did anyone consider extending the meeting time to 6 hours? 😉 ) 2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: But it's also right that the RA should have greater powers to make changes if that power is abused if, for example, an LRA keeps an item s/he doesn't want discussed at the bottom of the agenda. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That's why my amendment allows the RA to alter the order of the agenda, at the start of the meeting, by a 2/3 majority. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: And it should be a 2/3 majority in my opinion. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: If you allow the RA to overrule the LRA with a simple majority you shift the balance of power too far in the opposite direction. 2008/03/16 13:11 Dnate Mars: I disagree, it should be a simple majority 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: It is virtually impossible to get a majority of seats in our RA with the current election rules. Even with a majority of the votes a faction will not get a majority of seats. 2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat we cant function out of paranoia.. thats what i see you consistently doing hun, i dont htink you have to worry about these things............. 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That means that the minority parties could, acting in concert, put the majority factions' proposals at the bottom of the agenda at every meeting. That would run counter to the wishes of the voters. The RA should not 2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: we can vote out an RA member from a meeting if they are being unruly 2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: enable the frustration of the electoral mandate given by the electorate. 2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: it is criticalthat the LRA not be able to bury items by putting them last on every agenda — so a rollign order, as I propsoe, is better than LRA control — further — no faction has a majority — so a supermajority is not necessary 2008/03/16 13:12 Dnate Mars: The LRA shouldn't be that powerful, they are just the ones that have to deal with procedure, not have the ablitiy to steer the RA as they see fit 2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks for letting us know how you think pat 2008/03/16 13:12 MT Lundquist: i see a simpole majority being sufficient 2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree Dnante 2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: given our borda count system --if any faction gets a majority, it will be the equivalent of a supermajority — so a mjority vote is proper 2008/03/16 13:12 Bjerkel Eerie: Princess you love to be unruly adn no noe ever votes you our LOL 2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: I move to amend the bjill by striking the sentence on emergency leglisation 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: BJ.. im still waiting! 2008/03/16 13:13 Sonja Strom: Thank you Patroklus. I like Patroklus' amendment, but do agree with Dnate that a simple majority should suffice. 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: second bethan 2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what you're mostly saying is that you don't really care how citizens vote (ie. whom the citizens want in power), but only how the meetings are run? 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: no we do.. gwyneth 2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: but the voting system cant go two ways only one 2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: Sonja — Pat's amendment is esssentially a deletion — how can you like the amendment and like elements of the proposal? 2008/03/16 13:13 MT Lundquist: citizens voted for all RA members 2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont get to count them everyway you can and then do what you want 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're just going to vote on an amendment that will get a party with the majority of the votes no way to implement their election programme 2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: maybe I should re-read them, sorry... 2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we care about both, obviously — but in the RA we need to care aobut proceduresnad legialstion 2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gywn 2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedures are more important than the citizen's votes? 2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: indeed gwyn, that's what they're going to do 2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: in what we proposae and debate on the forums — that is where cirtizen involvement is best maximized and consdered 2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: there is a lot to keep track of going on at the moment 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, I'm shocked, lol 2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: they don't care about the citizens' vote 2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: so if you had one more vote than the next party you tink you get to run CDS 2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: just seats in the RA 2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we're in the CDS ruled by the media, not by citizen's votes? 2008/03/16 13:14 MT Lundquist: the voting system and the seats in the RA dont work that way Pat 2008/03/16 13:14 Dnate Mars: That is a pretty heavy charge there Pat 2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'm just clarifying this, since it's definitely a constitutional issue then 🙂 ) 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what they learn in boot camp ithink 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: well you are saying your opionon gwyn 2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we have a representtive democracy here — we are ruled by the RA who are selected by a democratic process 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: not a fact 2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan i agree 2008/03/16 13:15 MT Lundquist: so doi beathan 2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure it's my opinion. There was a REASON why we have a LRA, 2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: the citizens are represented by what the RA does — not by how it does it 2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a reason why we have a voting system that gets minority parties into the RA 2008/03/16 13:15 Patroklus Murakami: and you're enabling the minorities to frustrate the will of the people. why do you thnk we have an LRA? 2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a balance there. 2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're removing that balance 😀 2008/03/16 13:16 Flyingroc Chung: well, it depends on whether you see the party witht eh highest borda ranking as representative of the people, or the majority of the RA as being the representative of the people. 2008/03/16 13:16 Beathan Vale: so — can we consider my aqmendment to delete the sentence? 2008/03/16 13:16 Brian Livingston: Voting in this proposal is dangerous for th reasons Gwyn and Pat have made 2008/03/16 13:16 Dnate Mars: I disagree, I don't think the current system is really balanced 2008/03/16 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a difference in opionon.. you think the LRA has a big power over the CDS, we think he/ she should run the RA procedurally not control the outcomes 2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR ‚Äî what counts is how many citizens wish a certain faction's programme to be implemented. The way they're represented in the RA is less important. 2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: brb 2008/03/16 13:17 Bromo Ivory is Online 2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: I vote aye on my amendment 2008/03/16 13:17 Sonja Strom: Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying about negation, but Patroklus' amendment says this "Any alteration to the order of the agenda requires a 2/3 majority of the members present." Why could we not simply change this to be "...majority of the members present."? 2008/03/16 13:17 ThePrincess? Parisi: and with your RA seats you can do that gwyn 2008/03/16 13:17 Jon Seattle Agrees with Gwyn 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Princess 2008/03/16 13:17 Patroklus Murakami: no TP, we think the LRA power shoudl be balanced, you want to remove any power at all from the most popular faction 2008/03/16 13:17 MT Lundquist: the voting system we have and the RA seat do not support that view gwyn 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: more than 50% of the people voted on the CSDF 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah MT 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does, 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the majority of the citizens will pick the LRA, 2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (indirectly, as the "Most Voted Party") 2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you want to have your cake and eat it too? i dont have more votes than sonja? 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: no we had a 2 2 2 1 party seat distribution 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the LRA sets the agenda 😉 2008/03/16 13:18 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (18m) 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT ‚Äî yes, but more than 50% of the votes were on the CSDF 😉 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: and an agenda that is voted down is useless 2008/03/16 13:18 Flyingroc Chung: Gwyn, it's essentially the same thing, we assume that the rest of the ra is there as a check against the faction in power railroading policies that may have weak support 2008/03/16 13:18 Patroklus Murakami: the LRA only has one vote TP 🙂 same as other RA members 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have a system where the RA gets minority parties a large representation ‚Äî deliberately 2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: but this is about the big picture not just this election but the future of CDS gywn 2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: dont you understand 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *exactly*, Princess 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh ‚Äî I do, 2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember, 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: exactly gwyn 2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: thats the system 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the current RA procedures were set upin 2004, 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: when we discussed this issue *precisely* 2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and the CSDF withdrew — I have said repeatedly that we need to considere the will of the voters and work to pass the CSDF agenda even wihtout the participation of hte CSDF 2008/03/16 13:19 ThePrincess? Parisi: and they dont work if you have a faction with no candidates 2008/03/16 13:19 Brian Livingston: But the assignment of hte LRA to the highest ranked party is representative of the voters' confidence in that party's platfor and leadership. This proposal would reduce their (the itizens') input and influene on that importnat balane 2008/03/16 13:19 Jon Seattle: FR, there is already a check in place. The RA (as is aparent) can vote to change the rules if it likes. 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: for a LONG time ‚Äî and without drama even (weren't we nice?) 2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Brian.... 2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: again — it is the waht that matters, not the how — as long as the how owrks — and it has ceased working, we are doing our jobs 2008/03/16 13:19 Dnate Mars: Ok, but if there is a case where only the ruling party didn't want something, they can denine what the citizens want because of teh control over teh adjenda 2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: exacly Dnate 2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my guys 2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: brian its reduced, but not taken away fully 2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: i believe we are discussing the para 3 item 2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: not the role of the LRA 2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: the LRA still has power 2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes — the LRA is only incidental here 2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: my proposal would prevent that kind of abuse dnate. a 2/3 majority could override the LRA 2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: simple majority unbalances the situation 2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the faction that won the elections with a majority of the votes is NOT fullfilling their voters' wishes, they're voted out of the RA next elections 😉 2008/03/16 13:20 Flyingroc Chung: I thik the idea of giving minority factions a large representation in the RA was exactly to foster collaboration, rather than allowing the faction in power to force their agenda through. 2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes 2008/03/16 13:21 Dnate Mars: yes, but 2/3rd is too high, a simple majority should suffice 2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: what if the faction with the majority only had one more vote than the next one.. does that still make sense though? 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dnate 2008/03/16 13:21 MT Lundquist: simple majority i favour that 2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: Dnate — yes 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Think how the votes are allocated 2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: simple majority is fine 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess: yes 2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: given our method — a mjoriyy is the equivalent of 1/3 2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: 2/3 I mean 2008/03/16 13:21 Patroklus Murakami: no it's not! 2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not at all, Beathan! 2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes it is 2008/03/16 13:21 Bromo Ivory: How does one prevent someone from obstructing procedurally - or would we allow that filibuster style? 2008/03/16 13:22 Dnate Mars: I am, and I am thinking of the reason we have set it up the way we have, like FR said, it was done so no party coudl force their adjenda 2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: the minority parties are &*over-rprepresented! 2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh guys ‚Äî do your maths first, please 2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: and what if the LRA was to obstruct that is MY concern 2008/03/16 13:22 Beathan Vale: For a party to win a mjority , it would need supermajority support — so a majority is the equivalent of an electoral 2/3 2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: BALANCE balance balance balance 2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat ‚Äî but they are *deliberately* over-represented; the 'check' comes from the LRA actually.... 2008/03/16 13:22 MT Lundquist: that is the voting system if and until it is changed 2008/03/16 13:22 Bromo Ivory: Well with the election method we go for the median opinion not the majority 2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: it's the other way round beathan, a group of minority parties can have a a majority in the RA ona minority vote 2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: this is a voting systme issue you have i agree 2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: that's what's unbalanced about what you propose 2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: do the maths 2008/03/16 13:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's not a "voting issue", the system was set up that way *deliberately*... 2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: jons maths? .. lol 2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: Pat — but your concern was factioanl infighting — not thefear of a coalition of minority parties 2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi nods 2008/03/16 13:23 Dnate Mars: it is a brithish thing 😛 2008/03/16 13:23 Jon Seattle: Yes, the LRA is not an accedental part of the current system. And I see the push to replace it with one that is far less equitable. 2008/03/16 13:23 Bromo Ivory: There is no issue with the borda/st Legume 2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: no MT is british its not british 2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: we encourage coalitions with a majority vote — so a 2/3 vote is not necessaru 2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: no beathan a coaltion of minorties is precisely my concern 2008/03/16 13:24 Bromo Ivory: Agreed Beathan - provided we have some sort of anti-filibuster clause 2008/03/16 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you wish to change the election system at the same time you wish to remove the role of the LRA... in that case, I'd be ok with that 2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: one that overrides the majority party due to the oddness of our electoral system 2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: well that would have more seats in the RA voting together Pat 2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: But that same collition can shut down the votes anyway 2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: thats how the syetem works 2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: it is illegitimate to be afraid of a coalition of minorities — that is the best check on the dictatorship of a majority 2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are not removing it we are toning it down 2008/03/16 13:24 Flyingroc Chung: the possiblity of a tyranny of the majority is my concern 2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: you still need the majority to pass anything 2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi thinks.. hmm dictatorship.. 2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: of course — preventing that should be the SC's job — but I am justgifiably skeptical of the SC here 2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: i agree with FR and beathan 2008/03/16 13:24 Brian Livingston: If the Llra WAS TUELY MISUISING HIS POWER, i COULD ONLY ASSUME THAT HTE MINORITY PARTIES WOULD WORK TOGEATHER TO ADD ITESM TO THE AGENDA WITH THE 2/3RDS VOTE REUIRED BY THE PROPOSED ALTERNATIVE. 2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what i fear too beathan 2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: so you exchange LRA 'tyranny' wth 'minority party' tyranny. well done! 2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston: ck, sorry for hte caps 2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: exactly brian 2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: yay brian 2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Beathan... that argument, I'm sorry, it's simply out of order! In democracies, majorities decide 🙂 2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: so, if you have a collition of minorites, they can still stop anything from passing 2008/03/16 13:25 Bromo Ivory: Pat - thats not true - we make it the median opinion as the rule 2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston hates the positioning of his Caps 2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: what the LRA would do is ensure that nothing gets done 2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What's the "median opinion", Bromo? ^ 2008/03/16 13:25 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and in free societies thsat respect civil rights, we have to respect minority rights — democracy is not enough, we need free democracies 2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: we want the power balanced in the RA and in CDS as a whole 2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dnate: and get thrown out of office on the following term 2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: but you're allowing the minority to dictate to teh majority, that's not democracy! 2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, we DO respect minorities. So much, in fact, that they get over-represented in the RA ‚Äî rdeliberately so! 2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: well if you have no candidates you cant get removed from office 2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: We do have a weakness where the LRA's faction is in a minority, and also does not command a majority of votes 2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: 5 seats to 2 is a majority pat 2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: if the vote went that way 2008/03/16 13:26 Dnate Mars: Sure, so why does the LRA get to force their adjenda with no way for anyone to stop them? 2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: Then that faction gets piossed off and resigns 2008/03/16 13:26 Flyingroc Chung: Also, it's silly, given or voting system, to talk about majorities 2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: MT, duh, what about the votes of the citizens? 2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: for whichever party 2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer 2008/03/16 13:26 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — how are they resepcted if they are overrepresented, but then disparaged as being minorities 2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: So - that is not a good outcome 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted fro BJ.. !!1 2008/03/16 13:27 Alexicon Kurka is Offline 2008/03/16 13:27 MT Lundquist: then argue to change the voting system 2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: the RA should be self-governing 2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wordplay, Beathan, wordplay 🙂 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted for BJERKEL 2008/03/16 13:27 Brian Livingston: There is a way to otp them with the proposed alternative, with a 2/3rds ote to add an item to the genda 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: what about that!!! 2008/03/16 13:27 Patroklus Murakami: 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer<------- attempt to start a fight? provocation? 2008/03/16 13:27 Dnate Mars: It won't be that hard for a party to get 1/3 of the RA seats, ensuring they are always goin gto get their adjenda and no one else heard 2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No,they voted for her party, Princess. 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. !!! 2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes its all MYFAULT 2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: no — TP — this one is my fault 2008/03/16 13:28 Jon Seattle: what Bromo is trying to say here, I think, is that minorities should have power if they beleive they represent a "silent majority" 2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^ 2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds... dangerous 2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: no its not anyoens fault it is common sense its what we were voted in to do and remain loyal to CDS to do 2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: OK — can we table this matter and move on — I will try to represent another proposal with proposals 2008/03/16 13:28 Bromo Ivory: No - just a coalition of parties could create a frustrating deadlock 2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: alternatives and disambiguation 2008/03/16 13:28 Dnate Mars: I think that 2/3 is way to high to be able to overturn the adjenda 2008/03/16 13:28 Brian Livingston: Ok, this issue really isn't looking like it is oming to a point wher we cn vote on it. 2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree brian 2008/03/16 13:28 Alexicon Kurka is Online 2008/03/16 13:28 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Aragon Porta (19m) 2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, Bromo, the wise people in the past *have* devised a check on that situation 😉 2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: I withdraw paragrpah 3 and will represent 2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: i would like to vote on para 3 2008/03/16 13:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: second MT 2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: if we use your logic, why do we still require a majority to pass laws? 2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: OK — we can vote on para 3 2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: Gywn, we have many wise people here today too 2008/03/16 13:29 Patroklus Murakami: shouldn't you vote on the amendment first? 2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: but I would like to vote on my amendment fixing the emergency section firswt 2008/03/16 13:29 Brian Livingston: It i unwise to vote on this proposl until we get a bit more of a onsensus 2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: ok i second beathan 2008/03/16 13:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye on emergency 2008/03/16 13:30 Yogeswari Padar is Offline 2008/03/16 13:30 Gwyneth Llewelyn: The "logic" here is that while the faction winning a *majority* of votes is allowed to bring up the agenda for discussion, it will seldom have enough votes to pass it and has to compromise with the minority factions... 2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: aye on removing emergency sentence 2008/03/16 13:30 MT Lundquist: aye on removing emergency 2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — that is a heck on the amjority agenda — but it is not a check on the majority prevenitng consideration of a minority agenda 2008/03/16 13:31 Ashcroft Burnham is Offline 2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: Folks, we'e in the middle ofa ote, can we have order please 2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: aye 2008/03/16 13:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:31 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:31 Jon Seattle is Offline 2008/03/16 13:31 Patroklus Murakami: what are you voting on now? the paragraph? what about the amendment? 2008/03/16 13:31 Dnate Mars: Will the LRA always have teh majority support since they are not directly elected? Even within a party they just get the most votes, not a majority 2008/03/16 13:32 Brian Livingston: the ote is to remove the sentence referenceing hte emergency legislation 2008/03/16 13:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: shh pat we are voting on getting the emergency wording out 2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: we are voting on the amendment 2008/03/16 13:32 Patroklus Murakami: LOL. seems there's some confusion! 2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: no — the Ra was not confused 2008/03/16 13:32 Sonja Strom: sorry, i am behind in reading the chat -be here soon 2008/03/16 13:32 MT Lundquist: no pat 2008/03/16 13:33 Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess's hand. 2008/03/16 13:33 Jon Seattle is Online 2008/03/16 13:33 Conover's Flight-Helper? 6.2.5.2 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational. 2008/03/16 13:33 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Jon Seattle (3m) 2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: The amendment has passed already - - can we move on? 2008/03/16 13:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: pweeese 2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: Sonja — can abstain 2008/03/16 13:35 Brian Livingston: We need Snoja's vote either way or her request for 7 day 2008/03/16 13:35 Sonja Strom: OK, I will abstain, because I can't figure out exactly what the vote is for. 2008/03/16 13:36 Naftali Torok is Offline 2008/03/16 13:36 Flyingroc Chung: removing reference to emergency in beathan's paragraph 3 2008/03/16 13:36 Beathan Vale: I move to pass paragaph 3 as amended to remove the sentence about nonemergecny measures 2008/03/16 13:36 MT Lundquist: ok i propose we vote on para 3 now 2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: I move to table paragraph 3 to the forums for futrhter discussion 2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: Ergh.... too late 2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: ahem. what about the amendment to paragraph 3 i proposed? 2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: aww 2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: shhh pat 2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: surely you should take that vote first? 2008/03/16 13:37 MT Lundquist: that was vored out at the start pat 2008/03/16 13:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat you resigned hun 2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Pat — already rejected and not reintroduced 2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: point of order mr chairman 2008/03/16 13:37 Sonja Strom: so we are voting on Paragraph 3, without having any changes to it? 2008/03/16 13:37 Naftali Torok is Online 2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: i thought brian reintroduced the amendment to para 3? 2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Sonja — no sentence on nonemergency measure is removed 2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: Pat is orrect, I had reintroduced the paragraph 2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: I don't think so — at least no second 2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: err, amendment at hte outset of discussiopn 2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: no second I think 2008/03/16 13:38 Patroklus Murakami: do the RA procedures require a seconder? i'm not sure they do 2008/03/16 13:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt hear one 2008/03/16 13:38 MT Lundquist: me neither 2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: Pat — that is revisionistic history of a Clintonian form 2008/03/16 13:39 Dnate Mars: I am pretty sure they do 2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps you should check? 2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry i dont recall 2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: you can poll the Ra member for whther this topic is ready for voting 2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: ra members 2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can you please stop logjamming the RA 2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: if I'm reading th latest procedures 2008/03/16 13:39 Sonja Strom: Thanks FR. 2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: it's a legitimate question. whether you are using the procedures or not 2008/03/16 13:39 Beathan Vale: the RA has always ha second procedure — if the rules don't provide, it specifically, the history of the RA does — and this is anther sign that we need better and more fetailed and complete rules 2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: im ready to vote 2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: is sonja ready 2008/03/16 13:40 Sonja Strom: yes 2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: we have moved and seconded a vote on paragrph 4 as amended 2008/03/16 13:40 Brian Livingston: I am not 2008/03/16 13:40 MT Lundquist: para 3 2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: oops — para 3 I mena 2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: i call for a seven day then for brian 2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: second 2008/03/16 13:41 Dnate Mars: there is only 20 minutes left 2008/03/16 13:41 Sonja Strom: nay 2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: ty dnate 2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:41 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 13:41 Brian Livingston: you can't request a 7 day for another member...\ 2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: lol 2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry im being nice 2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: i wont do that anymore 2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: OK — Brian — can we vote — you can abstain 2008/03/16 13:41 Dnate Mars: she can call for a 7-day vote, it applies to all members 2008/03/16 13:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry 🙁 2008/03/16 13:42 Beathan Vale: this one member filibuster ability is another problem with our current rules I have not encountered before 2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: RROs would fix this problem as well 2008/03/16 13:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: well we called for a vote, it was seconded and we voted 2008/03/16 13:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: does it have to be unanimous? 2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: TP — unfortunately it was not cleaqr waht we were voting on 2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: Brian needs to call the vote on paragraph 3 2008/03/16 13:43 Sonja Strom: why does there have to be a hurry? Can't we wait a moment for a member of the RA to decide? 2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: we are runnning out of time again 2008/03/16 13:44 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes thats fine sonja 2008/03/16 13:44 Jon Seattle: (usually one should wait for the chair to respond before voting..) 2008/03/16 13:44 Beathan Vale: 15 min left on what we want the session to run 2008/03/16 13:44 Sonja Strom thinks Jon is correct in that. 2008/03/16 13:44 Beathan Vale: I also think Jon is correct under the current rules 2008/03/16 13:44 Sonja Strom also thinks we can wait for Brian for 15 minutes if needed... 2008/03/16 13:44 MT Lundquist: ok so its for Brian to ask us to vote then 2008/03/16 13:45 Dnate Mars: Well, it has been fun, but I have to go 2008/03/16 13:45 Beathan Vale: bye Dnate 2008/03/16 13:45 Sonja Strom: See you Dnate! 2008/03/16 13:45 ThePrincess? Parisi: bye dnate thanks for coming 2008/03/16 13:45 MT Lundquist: bye denate 2008/03/16 13:45 Brian Livingston: Sorry, I was trying to reference ht RA procedure to take care fof a procedural issues that was brought up. 2008/03/16 13:45 MT Lundquist: np 2008/03/16 13:45 Sonja Strom: Thanks Brian. 2008/03/16 13:46 Patroklus Murakami: "The LRA cannot summarily discard any proposed bill. " 2008/03/16 13:46 Beathan Vale: I have looked at the procedures and I think that they are not that helpful on the current procdural issues 2008/03/16 13:46 Brian Livingston: I a going to call the ote. The votei son hte amended Paragraph 3 2008/03/16 13:46 Patroklus Murakami: i think you should hold a vote on my amendment, if only to be clear that you have legally rejected it 🙂 2008/03/16 13:47 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 13:47 Beathan Vale: thanks Brian 2008/03/16 13:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol 2008/03/16 13:47 Brian Livingston: embers, your vottes please: 2008/03/16 13:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: the spin 2008/03/16 13:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:47 Sonja Strom: nay 2008/03/16 13:47 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:47 Brian Livingston: nay 2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: Ok — as we have seen at every session so far this year — Paragrph 4 is far and away the most important proposal here 2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: We need better more complete rules than we have 2008/03/16 13:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed beathan 2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: The current procedure is a mess — and as a result we get all tangled up on ourselves 2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: this will streamline things by providing much needed clarity and transparency to RA procedures 2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: that is all 2008/03/16 13:49 Sonja Strom: I have a question about it. 2008/03/16 13:49 Flyingroc Chung: as a practical matter, if no one is willing to read a short notecard and follow the rules set in them, who is going to read 200 pages and follow *those* rules? 2008/03/16 13:49 Patroklus Murakami: i'd like to oppose this paragraph, if anyone would liek to reintroduce my amendment 4 i'd appreciate it 🙂 2008/03/16 13:49 Sonja Strom: Is the RRO referenced, the version for small organisations? 2008/03/16 13:49 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh i have asked that the rules for the RA be posted in the room .. 2008/03/16 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: that was refused by pat i submitted a bill to that effect even and it was ignored 2008/03/16 13:50 Brian Livingston: I would like to reintrduce Pat's Proposed amendment, any seconds? 2008/03/16 13:50 Beathan Vale: No — but I would take such a reference as a friednly amendment 2008/03/16 13:50 Patroklus Murakami: 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: that was refused by pat i submitted a bill to that effect even and it was ignored<----------provocaton? trying to get a rise? 2008/03/16 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: i asked that for us and for the observing citizens that RA rules be posted in the room .. and the PIO take carge 2008/03/16 13:50 Sonja Strom: Brian, I second 2008/03/16 13:50 Beathan Vale: Brian — Pat's amendment here os crazy — it is a Constittuional change to resolve a procedural problem 2008/03/16 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: stop being a spin monkey pat.. gimme a break.. look in the morror 2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: stop the sniping folks please 2008/03/16 13:51 Patroklus Murakami: let's keep things civil, please 🙂 2008/03/16 13:51 Brian Livingston: However, I think it is worth considering all alternatives before making sweeping changes to our procedures 2008/03/16 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol! 2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: OK -- 2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: let's vote on Pat's amendment 2008/03/16 13:51 Brian Livingston: No,l let's discuss it 2008/03/16 13:51 Patroklus Murakami: hold on, i haven't spoken on it yet 2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: no need — let's vote 2008/03/16 13:51 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: I call for a vote 2008/03/16 13:51 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol 2008/03/16 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 13:52 MT Lundquist: second 2008/03/16 13:52 Patroklus Murakami: gosh, fascism in action 2008/03/16 13:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: second for a vote 2008/03/16 13:52 Sonja Strom: Would it be possible for us to say what we would like as an RA, even if we could not change the consititution? 2008/03/16 13:52 MT Lundquist: i read it pat 2008/03/16 13:52 MT Lundquist: dont need you to read it out again 2008/03/16 13:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: did you quit so you can go on griefering the RA 2008/03/16 13:52 Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to hear Sonja 2008/03/16 13:52 Beathan Vale: Sonja — no — Pat's amendment is a Constititonal change tghat has already been fully deated on the forums 2008/03/16 13:52 Patroklus Murakami: just close your ears to any arguments you don't like 2008/03/16 13:52 Jon Seattle would like to hear Sonja also 2008/03/16 13:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: kk pat 2008/03/16 13:53 MT Lundquist: no i make my mind up based on discussion 2008/03/16 13:53 Patroklus Murakami: i have new arguments not presented on the forums 2008/03/16 13:53 MT Lundquist: i read the forums 2008/03/16 13:53 Beathan Vale: oteherwise it is meaningless - a mere "sense of the RA" mtion 2008/03/16 13:53 Sonja Strom: Let's let Patroklust talk about it, as a citizen... 2008/03/16 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: please talk sonja 2008/03/16 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: omg 2008/03/16 13:54 Brian Livingston: We ar realy going to blok citizens from discussion in the RA? 2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: give him a set length of time then 2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: no its fine .. just set the time 2008/03/16 13:54 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: he didnt let them 2008/03/16 13:54 Beathan Vale: Brian — if tghe discussion gets us no where — we should put it off until the open discussion period 2008/03/16 13:54 Sonja Strom: All I asked was, even if we do not have the ability to make a constitutional change, could we make a statement of our preference? 2008/03/16 13:54 Beathan Vale: this discussion will get us nowhere — I guarantee it 2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: wait for AOB 2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol 2008/03/16 13:54 Beathan Vale: Sonja — what good would that do? 2008/03/16 13:54 Jon Seattle: Sonja, yes you do. 2008/03/16 13:54 Sonja Strom: It is a "yes/no" question. 2008/03/16 13:54 Bjerkel Eerie contemplates a time limited gag order 2008/03/16 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes you can speak sonja 2008/03/16 13:55 Patroklus Murakami: you might hear another point of view? it might change your mind 🙂 2008/03/16 13:55 Flyingroc Chung: I'd like to say while it's the CSDF's damn fault that they are not represented in this RA, it is a matter of fairness that their voice still be heard. 2008/03/16 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol BJ 2008/03/16 13:55 Sonja Strom agrees with Flyingroc. 2008/03/16 13:55 Beathan Vale: I also agree — but the question is when are their voices best heard — I think they are best heard at the open discussion period 2008/03/16 13:56 Brian Livingston: After voting has been completed on the bproposal? 2008/03/16 13:56 Beathan Vale: Brian — yes — the debate had already happended - a mjority of the RA is ready to vote 2008/03/16 13:56 Patroklus Murakami: yes. best to listen after the fact 🙂 2008/03/16 13:56 Beathan Vale: we should vote 2008/03/16 13:56 MT Lundquist: i agree we are here to vote 2008/03/16 13:56 Brian Livingston: In that ase, we should put off voting n this proposal and table it until next week. Othjerwise there is little point to putting disussion off until AOB as the deccision will haveben made 2008/03/16 13:56 MT Lundquist: the discussion for ra members has happened 2008/03/16 13:57 MT Lundquist: at least for this ra memebr 2008/03/16 13:57 Sonja Strom: Are we running out of time? 2008/03/16 13:57 Beathan Vale: the sessions should be used for voting and for some inworld issue exploration at the end — the forums for debate — otherwise our sessions will last for ever 2008/03/16 13:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree beathan 2008/03/16 13:57 MT Lundquist: agreed 2008/03/16 13:57 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree *totally*. 2008/03/16 13:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: we read and use the forums.. then come here an d vote 2008/03/16 13:57 Patroklus Murakami: i could have said all i have to say by now.... if you'd just let me speak 🙁 2008/03/16 13:57 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's having the media deciding issues, not the elected representatives. 2008/03/16 13:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: karma baby 2008/03/16 13:57 Perplexity Peccable is Online 2008/03/16 13:58 Brian Livingston: This is disgrceful, but a motion has been made an seconded, so my hands are tieed 2008/03/16 13:58 Beathan Vale: no — its having elected reps deciding issues aftger paying attention to the media — which is exactly the right way to do things 2008/03/16 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree beathan ok 2008/03/16 13:58 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:58 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:58 Patroklus Murakami: but ensuring we silence those we don't want to hear... 2008/03/16 13:58 notetaker 2.0.1: Script run-time error 2008/03/16 13:58 notetaker 2.0.1: Stack-Heap? Collision 2008/03/16 13:58 Brian Livingston: Members, we are voting on the proposed amendment to the Proposal put forth by Pat 2008/03/16 13:58 Bromo Ivory is Offline 2008/03/16 13:58 MT Lundquist: when have you ever been silent pat 2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: Pat — you have had and will had your ability to speak to your heart's content 2008/03/16 13:59 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: Oops 2008/03/16 13:59 Brian Livingston: Members, your votes please: 2008/03/16 13:59 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 2008/03/16 13:59 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/16 13:59 Brian Livingston: nay 2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: Pat's amendmdnt? 2008/03/16 13:59 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: nay 2008/03/16 13:59 Flyingroc Chung: lol 2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: now the RA is confused I think 2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: let's setep back 2008/03/16 13:59 Flyingroc Chung: what does aye mean? 2008/03/16 13:59 ThePrincess? Parisi: ahhuh? 2008/03/16 13:59 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok 2008/03/16 13:59 Sonja Strom: What Brian said is correct. 2008/03/16 13:59 Brian Livingston: Agreed 2008/03/16 14:00 Beathan Vale: We are voting on Pat's amendment, — I vote nay 2008/03/16 14:00 Sonja Strom: Flyingroc, it was about Pat's amendment. 2008/03/16 14:00 MT Lundquist: nay then 2008/03/16 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: i thouht he just asked us to vote over 2008/03/16 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok 2008/03/16 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: nay 2008/03/16 14:00 Brian Livingston: For the sake of clarity... The vote is on Pat's amendment. An aye vote is in favor of hte amndment, a nay vote is against 2008/03/16 14:00 Flyingroc Chung: aye — agree with pat's amendment? 2008/03/16 14:00 MT Lundquist: nay 2008/03/16 14:00 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/16 14:00 Brian Livingston: aye 2008/03/16 14:01 Beathan Vale: and — to move things on — I accept Sonja's amendment as a friendly amendment 2008/03/16 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 14:01 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/16 14:01 Flyingroc Chung: it's 2 pm 2008/03/16 14:01 Flyingroc Chung: bye 2008/03/16 14:01 Beathan Vale: bye FR 2008/03/16 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: vbye FR thanks 2008/03/16 14:01 MT Lundquist: bye fr 2008/03/16 14:01 Sonja Strom: bye FR, see you! 2008/03/16 14:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye! 2008/03/16 14:01 Delia Lake: bye FR 2008/03/16 14:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: take care 🙂 2008/03/16 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks 2008/03/16 14:02 Brian Livingston: It is 2 PM, and the RA did affirm to tie up business by 2 PM. 2008/03/16 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes 2008/03/16 14:02 Beathan Vale: OK — let's table this work a week — but have a 10 minute open discussion period to conclude 2008/03/16 14:02 MT Lundquist: can i suggest we continue this agenda next meeting 2008/03/16 14:03 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: that will let Pat debate this issue 2008/03/16 14:03 Sonja Strom: ok 2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: and after than — an election meeting 2008/03/16 14:03 Patroklus Murakami: what issue? the paragraph you already passed without debate? 2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: at which many of these RA size and LRA issues can be continued to be discussed 2008/03/16 14:03 Bromo Ivory is Online 2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: Pat — we did not pass 4 — we rejected your amendment and tabled it to next week 2008/03/16 14:04 Patroklus Murakami: sorry, missed that 🙂 2008/03/16 14:04 Beathan Vale: now — because we have an open discussion period (finally) — you can ambush us — so ambush away 2008/03/16 14:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: i sell sheilds to go withtogas .. we are ook 2008/03/16 14:04 Patroklus Murakami: i have nothing to add 2008/03/16 14:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol 2008/03/16 14:05 Sonja Strom: LOL 2008/03/16 14:05 MT Lundquist: lol 2008/03/16 14:05 Patroklus Murakami: you've already made up your minds so what's the point? 2008/03/16 14:05 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (18m) 2008/03/16 14:05 Beathan Vale: ok then --- 2008/03/16 14:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, you guys are seriously worrying me. You're basically subverting all the values we held as important. 1) Discussion on the CDS issues are to be made in the media, regardless of who the citizens elected 2008/03/16 14:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) discussions on the RA are kept to a minimum 2008/03/16 14:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: then too bad you quit.. 2008/03/16 14:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: if you cared why did you quit 2008/03/16 14:06 Patroklus Murakami: we gave our reason TP. i refer you to my resignation post 🙂 2008/03/16 14:06 Beathan Vale: I don't see this as subversive at all 2008/03/16 14:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) instead of making the RA work to reflect what a MAJORITY of citizens wish, you subvert the process to allow MINORITIES to go ahead with whatever they please 2008/03/16 14:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ill read that pat 2008/03/16 14:06 Beathan Vale: but 00 I would be gald to hear the reasons 2008/03/16 14:06 MT Lundquist: me neither i agree with Beathan 2008/03/16 14:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's totally subversive, Beathan!You simply don't care what the citizens have voted for! 2008/03/16 14:07 MT Lundquist: they voted for 4 partys 2008/03/16 14:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will be the point in running for elections? Decide everyting on the forums... 2008/03/16 14:07 You decline Alpine Meadow, Alpine Meadow (119, 125, 82) from A group member named Arria Perreault. 2008/03/16 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: welli will post about a party with a majority then pulling out .. and you worry about us.. your faction is subversive to hve ppl for you.. vote for you .. and then QUIT 2008/03/16 14:07 Beathan Vale: I think this sets up the RA to listen and learn the issues == then efficiently vote on measures based on that — then have an open discussion period for citizens who want to interact with the RA inworld 2008/03/16 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont have anyone run 2008/03/16 14:07 Beathan Vale: it is an imprivement — supproting those principels — not the opposite 2008/03/16 14:07 Patroklus Murakami: 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: welli will post about a party with a majority then pulling out .. and you worry about us.. your faction is subversive to hve ppl for you.. vote for you .. and then QUIT<--------blame the victims 2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: thnk you for opinion though 2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Those vague statements are all very fine and clear, Beathan, and of course I agree with them 2008/03/16 14:08 Bromo Ivory: Pat if you resigned, you are hardly a victim 2008/03/16 14:08 MT Lundquist: victims!!!!! 2008/03/16 14:08 MT Lundquist: lol 2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess ‚Äî session after session, you pushed (personally) for the LRA to get out of the RA 2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol.. the CSDF spin.. thnk you for your comments on me and the continuous attacks 2008/03/16 14:08 Beathan Vale: free from RA discusssions are wasteful — open discussion periods and the forums allow the RA to be effiecient AND respond to the citizens 2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: now they're out you accuse them 2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: PROVE THAT@ GWYEN.. WHT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT 2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what do you want? 🙂 2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: THAT IS A LIE 2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: YOU LIAR 2008/03/16 14:08 Patroklus Murakami: bromo, you recall the playground bullies after the RA meeting? you didn't think that what cool at the time 2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg 2008/03/16 14:09 Beathan Vale: also, I think that the RA needs to pay attention tot he vote of the cigtizens — including the support given to other parties' platforms 2008/03/16 14:09 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I've touched a sensible point, I see 🙂 2008/03/16 14:09 Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn 100% on this 2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: YOU ARE A LIAR.. YOU SHOW ME ONE LINE OF CHAT TO GET PAT OUT LRA 2008/03/16 14:09 Bromo Ivory: Pat, are you saying you were bullied into resigning? 2008/03/16 14:09 Brian Livingston: Umm, let's calm this down a it?? 2008/03/16 14:09 Beathan Vale: well — this is a bit much 2008/03/16 14:09 Bromo Ivory: OK - I will be quiet 2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: jon you are worng too 2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you caem here to attack us and me 2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you 2008/03/16 14:09 Sonja Strom: That is a fairly strong accusation... 2008/03/16 14:09 Patroklus Murakami: i have already posted about the harrassment i received. bromo, you witnessed soem of teh worst of it 2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: i aprrectiate that 2008/03/16 14:10 Jon Seattle: I don't see that I have attacked anyone at all. 2008/03/16 14:10 Beathan Vale: I admit I had drafta no confidence vote proposal — but not proposed it — as far as I know — that is the extent of the RA challenge to PAt personally 2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: harrasment.. lol 2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: what harassement did I GET? 2008/03/16 14:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: People can leave of their own free will when they're not liked, Beathan 2008/03/16 14:10 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — true 2008/03/16 14:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that's what happened. 2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i like you pat, a LOT 2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i tried to get you to work with me 2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: over and over 2008/03/16 14:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So will you deny your accusations of "blocking the process"?? 2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: you were rude and mean to me 2008/03/16 14:10 Beathan Vale: and I think that the voters need to be protected and respected — and they voted for the CSDF platform — so we need to work from it even without the CSDF 2008/03/16 14:11 Patroklus Murakami: like i say. my reasons have been outlined very clearly on the forums. i don't relish being held to a kangaroo court by the bullies in this meeting 2008/03/16 14:11 Beathan Vale: BUT — we need to have a better procedure so we can get anything done 2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i knwo leon quit and then you didnt wanna be here with only you in CSDF 2008/03/16 14:11 MT Lundquist: Pat it was you who was the bully 2008/03/16 14:11 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, that's another issue, Beathan, and I'm sure everybody agrees with that 2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: sad that your prty hs so much support and no cndidate 2008/03/16 14:11 Sonja Strom: oh, Pat... 2008/03/16 14:11 MT Lundquist: sorry to say that but as you bring it up 2008/03/16 14:11 Patroklus Murakami: you know nothing TP. that's inaaccurate 2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat is the bully 2008/03/16 14:11 Jon Seattle: Beathan, are you now the expert on the CSDF plarform? Even though you seem rather opposed to much of what we do? 2008/03/16 14:11 MT Lundquist: and bullies dont like it when the little folks fight back 2008/03/16 14:11 Beathan Vale: well — the RA wasfull of Bullies — it was like a room full of bull mooses bellowing at and charging each other 2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: you did it to michel and now you wanna do it to me 2008/03/16 14:12 Sonja Strom: I think we should not be calling each other bullies. 2008/03/16 14:12 Beathan Vale: Jon — I resepct the voters 2008/03/16 14:12 Patroklus Murakami: 14:11 MT Lundquist: Pat it was you who was the bully<----- blame the victim 2008/03/16 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: i was in tears and about to quit also.. cos of what you did 2008/03/16 14:12 Bromo Ivory: Pat, you are not a victim 2008/03/16 14:12 Beathan Vale: I think we should all just put them on the table amd measure — then move on to iportant things 2008/03/16 14:12 MT Lundquist: victim!!! what victim Pat 2008/03/16 14:12 Bromo Ivory: even though you desperately want to be one 2008/03/16 14:12 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that seems reasonable, Beathan 🙂 2008/03/16 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: let us let you explain that pat 2008/03/16 14:12 Bjerkel Eerie feels like a kid sitting in he back seat of the car listening to durnken parents fight over which road to the store is the quickest 2008/03/16 14:12 MT Lundquist: burning martyr i smeel 2008/03/16 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol BJ 2008/03/16 14:12 Beathan Vale: My God — It is as if Hillary Clinton's personality has been transplanted into all of us — gasp — how godawful is that? 2008/03/16 14:12 MT Lundquist: smell 2008/03/16 14:13 Jon Seattle: Yes, as far as I can see Pat, nad our delegation, was harrassed. And I think that freezes out others who wish to participate. 2008/03/16 14:13 Patroklus Murakami: well, if you're all happy with your conduct. that's fine 2008/03/16 14:13 Ashcroft Burnham is Online 2008/03/16 14:13 Bromo Ivory: Jon, I was harassed worse last term. Please - we are disrupting the meetin as well as all the kettles in the room calling others black 2008/03/16 14:13 Patroklus Murakami: i've apolologised publicly for my part in the problems. 2008/03/16 14:13 Beathan Vale: Pat — I have reviewed all the transcripts — and other than a snide coment about LRA fiat — I have founf nothing I did that I find in the last regreattable 2008/03/16 14:14 MT Lundquist: Thats why we want Roberts rules pat 2008/03/16 14:14 Patroklus Murakami: bromo, you weren't harrassed at all. your work was criticised 2008/03/16 14:14 Jon Seattle: Bromo, you made all kinds of wild accurations last term , calling people "racist" etc. 2008/03/16 14:14 Bromo Ivory: Well, Pat 2008/03/16 14:14 Beathan Vale: agrees with the CSDF here 2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: blame us then fine 2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: we ruined your faction 2008/03/16 14:14 Bromo Ivory: Jon - I take issue to that characterization. See you guys later 2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: bhooo hooo 2008/03/16 14:14 Bromo Ivory is Offline 2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: night bromo 2008/03/16 14:14 Jon Seattle: Bromo, you posted that in the forum. 2008/03/16 14:15 Patroklus Murakami: 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: bhooo hooo<--------nice. bullying? 2008/03/16 14:15 Sonja Strom: Is there any other member of the public that has something they would like to bring up? 2008/03/16 14:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guys... in civilised organisations, people that are thoroughly criticised regarding their work, and accused of wishing all power, have just one option left: to resign 2008/03/16 14:15 Beathan Vale: so — the voting off the island has begun .. 2008/03/16 14:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: your constituants need to find out who your candidates are next time, i fear you hve none 2008/03/16 14:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's what the CSDF members did 2008/03/16 14:15 MT Lundquist: do you intend to copy allour statements Pat 2008/03/16 14:15 Brian Livingston: Ok, I am calling an end to this discussion period as it seems pretty obvious it has gone past the point of being for hte good of the DS. 2008/03/16 14:15 Sonja Strom: Thanks 2008/03/16 14:15 MT Lundquist: i agree with Brian 2008/03/16 14:15 Patroklus Murakami: do you intend to censor my commentary MT? 2008/03/16 14:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. and then accuse the opponent of teh same 2008/03/16 14:15 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — they can also stay engaged and work to solve the problems — stadning above tghe fray and accusations — that is what the SP has done 2008/03/16 14:15 MT Lundquist: no its already in the record pat 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: well gwyen.. i think in civilized coutnrys little boys dont take their marbles and go home 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: they stickit out 2008/03/16 14:16 Brian Livingston: I think this conversation is valuable but outside of hte scope of the legislative body 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: for the peopel who voted for them 2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: I agree 2008/03/16 14:16 Sonja Strom: This conversation can continue outside of the RA meeting, if its participants want to continue it... 2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: it's been ten minutes 2008/03/16 14:16 MT Lundquist: i agree to 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you brian 2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: I move to adjourn 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/16 14:16 Patroklus Murakami: oh i see. you want me to stay and do all the work while you continue to harrass? 2008/03/16 14:16 MT Lundquist: second 2008/03/16 14:16 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/16 14:16 Brian Livingston: seconded 2008/03/16 14:16 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/16 14:16 Patroklus Murakami: not a good deal 🙂 2008/03/16 14:16 Brian Livingston: aye 2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: aye 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt harrass you i asked you for fairness and you refursed 2008/03/16 14:16 Sonja Strom: Thanks for being here everybody!! 2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: thankyou sonja 2008/03/16 14:17 Sonja Strom: Bye bye. 2008/03/16 14:17 ThePrincess? Parisi: bye

Permalink.

RA meeting: March 24, 2008

Agenda

Planned for 2 hours. Planned time for various items below
————————————

1. Swear In Jamie Palisades — 5 minutes

2. Discussion of (and potential election of) Interim LRA pending new elections to fill vacant seats. 5 minutes

3. Authorization of new elections and order requesting that the SC hold midterm elections to fill seats vacated by CSDF — 5 minutes

4. Reports — 10 minutes
-Commerce Commission
– Tour Commission
-Election Rules
-RA Process

5. Continuation of Debate and voting on RA Process Bill — 20 minutes

6. Celebrating our volunteers Bill — 10 minutes

7. Greener Sims Bill — 10 minutes

8. LRA bill — 15 minutes

9. Election Amendment — 15 minutes

10. Strategic Planning Discussion — What is the CDS, where do we want it to go and how we plan on getting there? 10 minutes

11. Other Business — 10 minutes

Flex time (unallocated) — 5 minutes
Summary

24 March 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
===
[12:08] Beathan Vale notes plans regarding RA operating methods.
[12:14] Jamie Palisades sworn in as RA member.
[12;16] Jamie Palisades’ designation as LRA noted.
[12:20] Clarification of RA process rules modified at last RA meeting.
[12:26] Report from Moon Adamant re 4th CDS sim.
[12:42] Proposal on election rule reform (change regarding faction ‘elimination’).
— Motion stated at [12:46]. Motion adopted 5-0-0 at [13:00].
[13:01] Proposal on declaring RA vacancies and seeking by-election.
— Motion stated at [13:02]. Motion adopted 5-0-0 at [13:17].
[13:21] Report from ThePrincess Parisi on Tour commission. (some progress)
[13:22] Report from MT Lundquist on Commerce commission. (no news)
[13:23] Report from Beathan Vale on RA Process commission. (completed)
[13:24] Proposals on RA Process changes, continued from 16 March meeting.
— Motion stated at [13:28] (‘second alternative paragraph 3’ about specific RA debate rules and time limits). Motion adopted 4-0-1 at [13:40].
— Motion stated at [13:42] (‘paragraph 4’ about citizen input to RA). Motion adopted 4-0-1 at [13:46].
[13:49] Strategic CDS plans discussion. (Mostly about sims and expansion)
[14:10] Adjournment.
Transcript

Transcript of 24 March 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “” inserted to separate agenda items
=

2008/03/24 12:04 MT Lundquist: hi jamie
2008/03/24 12:04 MT Lundquist: hi beathan
2008/03/24 12:04 Beathan Vale: hi all
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: hello jamie
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: hi beathan
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: tpd sonja but she likes to talk
2008/03/24 12:04 MT Lundquist: is sonja here i tped her
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: nope
2008/03/24 12:04 Beathan Vale: we will wait for Sonja
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: k
2008/03/24 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: she asked we start later cos she loves matanomics
2008/03/24 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: shall i get my twin
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: do we have the recorder
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: and notecards
2008/03/24 12:05 Beathan Vale: I don’t have notecards or a recorder
2008/03/24 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: is it legal then
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: hi sonja
2008/03/24 12:06 Beathan Vale: But I can create notecards — and we can do old fashioned recording
2008/03/24 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont have to stay if you dont want .. just wanted you to see what we are doing
2008/03/24 12:06 Beathan Vale: can someone volunteer to keep the record
2008/03/24 12:06 You: ThePrincess?, it’s legal if everyone who speaks assents to being recorded.
2008/03/24 12:06 Sonja Strom: I assent
2008/03/24 12:06 Beathan Vale: and everyone consent to be recorded – I do
2008/03/24 12:06 Jayalli Hawthorne: oh I love getting to know my sister better
2008/03/24 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: record me and post me on the forum then
2008/03/24 12:06 MT Lundquist: i assent
2008/03/24 12:07 Beathan Vale: Jamie — can you keep the record?
2008/03/24 12:07 Jayalli Hawthorne: I’ve waited so many years to be with you again… 🙂
2008/03/24 12:07 Sonja Strom: Welcome Jayalli
2008/03/24 12:07 You: certainly Beathan
2008/03/24 12:07 You: OK we have assent from all RA members. I also assent. Jayalli, OK if we record your comments during this session?

2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: Good day. Would everyone please give me their attention, so I can make some important comments about meeting procedure for today.
2008/03/24 12:08 Jayalli Hawthorne: yes absolutely
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: We are working on improvements to how we run the RA meetings. Our goals are to get through our business, make sure everyone is heard fairly, and keep a professional tone. There are bills pending, and probably will be additional official rule reform. But for now, the RA members have conferred and would like to use a few specific rules, and a slightly more formal meeting procedure. Please help us by respecting these rules:
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: First, please keep social chat to a minimum in the open chat channel. That will make it easier to follow the official threads of conversation.
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: Second, we plan to formally approve each agenda and enforce time limits for each item. Probably that will result in time limits for individual speakers, which the chairperson will announce. Please respect them.
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: Third, and importantly, everyone who speaks should be recognized by the meeting chair. If you want to speak, RA members included: (a) Tell the chair in IM. (b) You will be queued. (c) The chair will state, in chat, when it’s your turn. When we are having a casual, open-ended chat the chairperson can suspend that rule.
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: We plan to have “open microphone” sessions at each meeting, including this one, so that anyone with unscheduled issues or extra comments has some opportunity to raise their concerns.
2008/03/24 12:08 Sonja Strom: Beathan, slow down please…
2008/03/24 12:09 Beathan Vale: Thanks for your help and your support of virtual democratic government.
2008/03/24 12:09 Sonja Strom: hi Cindy – welcome
2008/03/24 12:10 Beathan Vale: Everyone who just walked in — please consent to be records
2008/03/24 12:10 MT Lundquist: i consent
2008/03/24 12:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i did already

2008/03/24 12:10 Beathan Vale: Agenda item 1. Swear In Jamie Palisades — 5 minutes
2008/03/24 12:10 Sonja Strom: I have a comment and question about getting in a “speaking queue.”
2008/03/24 12:10 You: I have everyone except Jayalli and CIndy
2008/03/24 12:10 Cindy Ecksol: I consent
2008/03/24 12:10 Jayalli Hawthorne: i consent
2008/03/24 12:11 Sonja Strom: Is there a way that could be more apparent to everyone than to send an IM to Jamie?
2008/03/24 12:11 Jamie Palisades smiles, gestures to the chair, that’s everyone
2008/03/24 12:11 Beathan Vale: Looking for oath — does anyone have it
2008/03/24 12:12 Beathan Vale: (I am still out of things from my bout with pneumoia last week
2008/03/24 12:12 Jamie Palisades mutters informally .. hm – a queueing device – bearing in mind that it’s only needed when there’s a bunch of people trying to talk – I bet we could get a scripted Board, sonja
2008/03/24 12:12 Sonja Strom: OK, for now we can do that.
2008/03/24 12:13 You: Beathan, I am looking at the last minutes for that – first mtg of current RA
2008/03/24 12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: I DONT SEE MINE
2008/03/24 12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: gwyn is on
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist gave you CDS RA Office Affirmation.
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist: there
2008/03/24 12:14 Sonja Strom: I found it.
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist: thats it
2008/03/24 12:14 Sonja Strom: Do you have it?
2008/03/24 12:14 You: I do.
2008/03/24 12:14 Sonja Strom: Hi Delia and Tom, welcome.
2008/03/24 12:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: hi everyone
2008/03/24 12:14 Tom Bukowski: Hello!
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist: hi delia
2008/03/24 12:14 You: Time to read it out loud, Beathan?
2008/03/24 12:14 Beathan Vale: OK — Jamie, repeat after me: I, Jamie Palisades, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
2008/03/24 12:14 Delia Lake: hi everyone
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom: Yay Jamie, welcome to the RA!
2008/03/24 12:15 You: I, Jamie Palisades, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale gave you New Note.
2008/03/24 12:15 You: (ahhh, cut and paste)
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: next
2008/03/24 12:15 MT Lundquist claps
2008/03/24 12:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: yay amie
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom claps!!!

2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: 2. Discussion of (and potential election of) Interim LRA pending new elections to fill vacant seats. 5 minutes
2008/03/24 12:15 You: Thanks, all.
2008/03/24 12:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: jamie.. whoot
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom: Delia and Tom, do you give your consent to be recorded in the meeting?
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: I would like to propose Jamie as interim LRA — and turn the meeting over to him
2008/03/24 12:15 Delia Lake: yes
2008/03/24 12:15 Tom Bukowski: yes
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: I am still fairly out of it
2008/03/24 12:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 Beathan Vale: Jamie — looks like you are drafted
2008/03/24 12:16 You: Thanks very much. I note that we are starting out with a good affirmation of the interim LRA by the RA members 🙂
2008/03/24 12:16 You: A good path to reform maybe – but one we have set for debate on the agenda later, smile
2008/03/24 12:16 You: I have a very few comments. This will be brief, but take a few posts, so please bear with me.
2008/03/24 12:16 First, please be patient with me, and us, as we try to bring a bit more formality to meeting procedure. Having the presiding officer recognize all speakers, before they may talk, is powerful – but can be abused. So please consider this an experiment we will try in good faith and then evaluate. If you’re an RA member, or specifically invited speaker on a topic, I *reliably* will ask you to speak in turn; if you’re not, please IM me if you want to be in the queue. Otherwise, during debate, please keep the backchatter and wisecracks to a minimum — out of respect for the ability of all to read and understand what we actually are doing. If someone’s speaking out of order, they can expect to be ignored. I will do my strenuous best to be evenhanded, though. Democracy’s a worthy experiment, even in cyberspace; let’s see if we can make the best of it.
2008/03/24 12:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Princess!
2008/03/24 12:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all!
2008/03/24 12:17 You: Hello Gwyn, welcome. … as Sonja has noted, we may find better paths than IM — and we do NOT need speaker queueing when there’s no competition for the microphone. Still, good to have a plan in place.
2008/03/24 12:18 Tom Bukowski waves warmly to Gwyn
2008/03/24 12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, hi, Tom! what a nice surprise 😀
2008/03/24 12:18 Jamie Palisades smiles
2008/03/24 12:18 You: I have a few brief procedural matters that need confirmation. I’ll try to keep them short. First, for today, could the five RA members please state briefly what time (in SLT) they must leave this meeting, for planning purposes? Everyone good until 14h00 SLT?
2008/03/24 12:18 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 12:18 Beathan Vale: I think I can stay until 1400
2008/03/24 12:19 Sonja Strom: yes, so far as I know — I am in my office.
2008/03/24 12:19 You: ok – understood – ThePrincess?, how’s your time constraints?
2008/03/24 12:19 Tom Bukowski quietly says “argh, rl calling and must run”, but I”ll leave my avie here and look at the chat later.
2008/03/24 12:19 You: we’ll assume we have the full 2 hours then?
2008/03/24 12:20 You: OK. Thank you. Second, let me just note our thanks to Pat Murakami for voluntarily posting the 9 March and 16 March minutes. That was very helpful. Third: having read those minutes (transcript really) …
2008/03/24 12:20 You: … just for clarity, let’s confirm: do I understand correctly that paragraphs “1” (modified 7 day rule) and “3” (RA can override LRA agenda) from the RA reform bill discussed on 16 March were adopted, and are now in force? Any RA member disagree?
2008/03/24 12:20 MT Lundquist: i agree
2008/03/24 12:21 You: anyone disagree?
2008/03/24 12:21 Beathan Vale: no
2008/03/24 12:21 Sonja Strom: I agree
2008/03/24 12:21 Beathan Vale: I agree
2008/03/24 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree that i dont disagree
2008/03/24 12:21 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:21 You: OK, so both are in force. Fine. We will operate pursuant to those two, then. As for the other RA rule reform matters, they’re under debate and will come up on the agenda.
2008/03/24 12:22 You: I think any other preliminaries can wait, thank you… so …

2008/03/24 12:22 You: Agenda check. We are operating from Beathan’s draft agenda posted here: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1677 . We have amended it to move the original item “9” (election amendment) ahead of the original “3” (request a by-election), right?
2008/03/24 12:23 You: Just checking – since the RA can change the agenda 🙂
2008/03/24 12:23 Beathan Vale: I so move
2008/03/24 12:23 You: any objections?
2008/03/24 12:23 MT Lundquist: no
2008/03/24 12:23 Sonja Strom: no
2008/03/24 12:23 Beathan Vale: no objection
2008/03/24 12:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: none but if moon shows i want to hear her please
2008/03/24 12:24 You: Excellent. I’d ask everyone’s indulgence for 60 seconds as I think ThePrincess? has an introduction of a guest to make.
2008/03/24 12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: she’ll be in-world shortly, Princess
2008/03/24 12:24 You: Understood TP
2008/03/24 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. everyone you may know Tom Bukowski, he has visited us often and he is considereing bein g a citizen
2008/03/24 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: we would be honored if that happens
2008/03/24 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome Tom
2008/03/24 12:24 Sonja Strom: Welcome Tom 🙂
2008/03/24 12:25 MT Lundquist: hi tom
2008/03/24 12:25 You: Great, we like new neigbors: welcome!
2008/03/24 12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: a very warm welcome :)))))
===
2008/03/24 12:25 Beathan Vale: Moon is on
2008/03/24 12:25 Beathan Vale: Let’s take a bit to here from her before moving on to the election amendment
2008/03/24 12:25 Delia Lake: that would be wonderful. Tom
2008/03/24 12:25 Beathan Vale: welcome Tom
2008/03/24 12:26 Sonja Strom: Hi Moon, welcome — Gwyn too 🙂
2008/03/24 12:26 Beathan Vale: Hello Moon
2008/03/24 12:26 Moon Adamant: hello everyone, sorry i am late
2008/03/24 12:26 MT Lundquist: hi moon
2008/03/24 12:26 You: OK, looking at the agenda (the wiki URI I posted in chat), we have completed items 1 and 2, next will be 9 (which we moved before 3). Everyone agreeable to 5 minutes for Moon before that?
2008/03/24 12:26 Beathan Vale: agree
2008/03/24 12:26 Sonja Strom: yes
2008/03/24 12:26 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 12:26 Moon Adamant: Jamie, can you please post the ulr again?
2008/03/24 12:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
2008/03/24 12:26 You: Floor’s yours, Madame Guild Artiste Extraordinaire
2008/03/24 12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1677 ?
2008/03/24 12:27 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:27 Moon Adamant: thanks
2008/03/24 12:28 You: hmm
2008/03/24 12:28 You: I thkn we’re waiting for Moon to share the list of info she needs from the RA for sim 4?
2008/03/24 12:28 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 12:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon’s reading lol
2008/03/24 12:28 You: Moon, your “busy” signal is one also, FYI. Will let you know when we get to 5 mins
2008/03/24 12:28 Moon Adamant: sorry
2008/03/24 12:29 Moon Adamant: i would like to know, firt of all
2008/03/24 12:29 Moon Adamant: if you have reached consensus on which sim to develop first
2008/03/24 12:29 Beathan Vale: yes — we passed an expansion of CN
2008/03/24 12:29 Sonja Strom: on the East side of CN
2008/03/24 12:29 You: march 9th minutes, I think?
2008/03/24 12:30 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 12:31 Moon Adamant: well, i was asking because last meeting i atteneded there was also a proposal on teh table for a mozart/salxburg theme sim east to NFS
2008/03/24 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
2008/03/24 12:31 Beathan Vale: that did not pass
2008/03/24 12:31 Sonja Strom: That was on the table, but did not pass.
2008/03/24 12:31 Moon Adamant: but if you tell me that it is CN, CN it is
2008/03/24 12:32 Beathan Vale: but it might be built as a private initiative — if the private intiative build passes
2008/03/24 12:32 Jamie Palisades whistles the MagicFlute? and notes that a reservation is a different thing than a purchase – let’s note that for further consideration
2008/03/24 12:32 Moon Adamant: i will ask which sim exactly, btw, referring to CN
2008/03/24 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: we did already, perhaps moon, you just tell us what you need from us specifically in specs to get on with what we passed
2008/03/24 12:32 You: Moon, we tremendously appreciate all the volunteer time you and your colleaguegs put into this. All the same, I’d budgeted 5 mins for this. My fault, maybe. Do we need more time at this meeting? Is there a prepared list of questions?
2008/03/24 12:32 Moon Adamant: ok
2008/03/24 12:33 Moon Adamant: what is the range of population you want in the sim
2008/03/24 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: can you post it on the forum today or give jamie a notecard then today
2008/03/24 12:33 Moon Adamant: what is the range of size of plots in the sim
2008/03/24 12:33 Beathan Vale: The build — Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total, primarily residential, east of CN
2008/03/24 12:33 MT Lundquist: yes we agreed
2008/03/24 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: it is in the RA minutes
2008/03/24 12:33 Sonja Strom: that was passed.
2008/03/24 12:33 Moon Adamant: does the RA preview any public infrastructure other than roads and communications?
2008/03/24 12:34 Sonja Strom: It was also posted on the Forum in the “Sim 4 Proposal” thread.
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: give us a plan by what date.. april 15th.. hows that
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: and we will approve it or not
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: shall we give her a date to get it to us by please
2008/03/24 12:34 You: Hmmm – but ‘plan’ means what? Does the RA need to approve a ‘map’?
2008/03/24 12:34 Beathan Vale: I don’t feel the need — but others might
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: what ever we need to buy the sim
2008/03/24 12:34 Moon Adamant: The Princess
2008/03/24 12:35 Moon Adamant: the Guild is an association of volunteers
2008/03/24 12:35 Sonja Strom: Welcome Pip, Antonius, and Naftali 🙂 Would you please give us permission to record your participation during this meeting?
2008/03/24 12:35 Naftali Torok: good evening everybopdy
2008/03/24 12:35 Beathan Vale: We just want 50 new residential lots — in a Roman theme
2008/03/24 12:35 Pip Torok: evening folks
2008/03/24 12:35 Moon Adamant: it is extremely hard to define an ETA for a sim plan
2008/03/24 12:35 Moon Adamant: when all work is done volunatrily
2008/03/24 12:36 You: Moon, may I ask a question: what does the Guild think is a reasonable deliverable to the RA about this?
2008/03/24 12:36 Moon Adamant: Jamie
2008/03/24 12:36 Moon Adamant: atm, the Guild has called a workgroup to update the masterplan
2008/03/24 12:37 Moon Adamant: Symo and Cindy have volunteeered
2008/03/24 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: Beathan Vale: Jamie — looks like you arew drafted 12:16 Jamie Palisades: Thanks very much. I note that we are starting out with a good affirmation of the interim LRA by the RA members 🙂 12:16 Jamie Palisades: A good path to reform maybe – but one we have set for debate on the agenda later, smile 12:16 maraki Cuttita is Online 12:16 Jamie Palisades: I have a very few comments. This will be brief, but take a few posts, so please bear with me. First, please be patient with me, and us, as we try to bring a bit more formality to meeting procedure. Having the presiding officer recognize all speakers, before they may talk, is powerful – but can be abused. So please consider this an experiment we will try in good faith and thand valus has too
2008/03/24 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: oops
2008/03/24 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: that was a typeo!!!
2008/03/24 12:37 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:37 Moon Adamant: in next guild meeting, i will ask if more voluntyeers and try to schedule a meeting
2008/03/24 12:38 You: I think ThePrincess? is calling our attention to our time limits.
2008/03/24 12:38 Moon Adamant: that’s a previous work we have to do, and at teh same time, i can start another workgroup to start studying teh RA specs
2008/03/24 12:38 You: Moon, can our current action item be a report by next RA meeting on the expected date and nature of a plan for approval?
2008/03/24 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: actually i just made a mistake
2008/03/24 12:39 Sonja Strom: We can always talk more about the details for new new sim in the “Sim 4 Discussion Thread” in the Forum: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628
2008/03/24 12:39 Moon Adamant: i am always available to answer before this RA about Guild progress concerning RA requests
2008/03/24 12:39 You: of course
2008/03/24 12:39 You: and we appreciate that …
2008/03/24 12:39 Moon Adamant: surely Sonja
2008/03/24 12:40 Moon Adamant: or that discussion – not the POLITICAL ittems – but the technical ones
2008/03/24 12:40 Moon Adamant: be carried at Guild meetings
2008/03/24 12:40 You: .. but can we reasonably expect a delivery date to be proposed by the Guild for a plan by next week? If not, just say no 🙂 as you point out we all are volunteers
2008/03/24 12:40 Beathan Vale: Note — we are 10 minutes over time on this — and we have discussed nothing that was not previously discussed and approved at prior sessions
2008/03/24 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: move we go to the next item please
2008/03/24 12:40 You: yes, I’d like to close it off after my Q to Moon
2008/03/24 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you moon
2008/03/24 12:41 Moon Adamant: i cannot answer you Jamie – saving that i will add that point to the Guild’s agenda right away
2008/03/24 12:41 Sonja Strom: Welcome Symo – could we please have your consent to record anything you say in this meeting?
2008/03/24 12:41 Beathan Vale: OK — Can we have Moon come back next session based on the Guild meeting between now and then?
2008/03/24 12:41 You: Fair enough, then I suggest we close this, convey the request to the Guild, and I will chat with Moon further about what’s feasible and report to the RA in the interim
2008/03/24 12:41 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:41 Sonja Strom: Symo there is not recording device today, we are only keeping a record of the chat.
2008/03/24 12:41 Moon Adamant: please do Jamie
2008/03/24 12:42 You: we are saying substantially the same, I think, Beathan. Good. Item closed then. Next is “9” which we moved up — and ahem —
2008/03/24 12:42 Symo Kurka: ok i give my consent
2008/03/24 12:42 Moon Adamant: i am looking forward to talk to you re: this issue
2008/03/24 12:42 You: Tony, Pip, Naftali:
2008/03/24 12:42 You: please assent to being recorded in open chat.
2008/03/24 12:42 You: Thanks Moon, and thanks for coming
===
2008/03/24 12:42 You: Item 9
2008/03/24 12:42 Tom Bukowski is back, sitting in quietly
2008/03/24 12:42 Sonja Strom: Tony sent me a personal IM that he will not say anything, and now he is “Busy”…
2008/03/24 12:43 You: In the next agenda item (numbered 3 originally) we likely will ask for a by-election
2008/03/24 12:43 You: (thanks, ackowl Sonja)
2008/03/24 12:43 You: and when we do, it will proceed under rules …
2008/03/24 12:43 You: .. so the Q is whether we wish to make any changes to those rules BEFORE then, that is, today.
2008/03/24 12:44 You: Is there a current proposal for election rule change that is already active on the floor as a motion?
2008/03/24 12:44 Beathan Vale: no — we are up for discussion of the amendment
2008/03/24 12:44 Beathan Vale: I have a breif statement in favor – -but I will forego if there is no opposition
2008/03/24 12:44 You: Ok – has it been moved and seconded yet, or is it still in flux?
2008/03/24 12:45 Beathan Vale: no pending motion — call for debate
2008/03/24 12:45 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 12:45 You: Any reason not to have Beathan move it? (With a URI or notecard please)
2008/03/24 12:45 Beathan Vale: but I will move it if no one wishes to speak in opposition
2008/03/24 12:45 ThePrincess? Parisi: none from me
2008/03/24 12:45 You: let’s make sure all know what we’re voting on?
2008/03/24 12:45 MT Lundquist: none
2008/03/24 12:46 Beathan Vale: I move passage of Bromo’s amendment tot he Constitution abolishing the faction elimination rule
2008/03/24 12:46 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm?
2008/03/24 12:46 You: Colleagues: would someone identity the source, such as with a Forum URI, please?
2008/03/24 12:46 Jamie Palisades cringes at the thought of “we just passed the thingy we think Bromo said somewhere”
2008/03/24 12:46 Beathan Vale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1675
2008/03/24 12:46 You: thank you 🙂
2008/03/24 12:46 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Beathan!
2008/03/24 12:47 You: OK, that forum item is the motion and has been seconded
2008/03/24 12:47 You: several have indicated no need for debate
2008/03/24 12:47 You: let me first ask – any RA members have comment?
2008/03/24 12:47 Beathan Vale: no comment
2008/03/24 12:47 MT Lundquist: no
2008/03/24 12:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: ive said what i need to say already
2008/03/24 12:47 You: OK – let me note in passing – does this require all 5 votes to be adopted?
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: yed
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 12:48 Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: no just four
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry we have a majority with four
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: on a RA of 7 — 5 needed for 66%
2008/03/24 12:48 You: Constitutional, is it not Madame ExSC chair?
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a RA of 5
2008/03/24 12:48 Gwyneth Llewelyn: constitutional change, 2/3
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: csdf quit
2008/03/24 12:48 You: *ahem*
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: you cannot quit and be here too
2008/03/24 12:48 You: This is why we have chairs 🙂 listen
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: how can you have it both way
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: s
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: Well — let’s vote and hope we have 5 votes, not 4 oo to avert the need for the SC to decide the point
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, there are 7 seats at the RA that were voted for
2008/03/24 12:49 ThePrincess? Parisi: but two were given up
2008/03/24 12:49 You: / me ahems again … there are two interps of that requirement 🙂 the *more conservative* one requires 5 votes
2008/03/24 12:49 Moon Adamant: the RA HAS 7 seats , i believe
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: They were left vacant 🙂
2008/03/24 12:49 Moon Adamant: they depend on population
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is different
2008/03/24 12:49 You: Dear friends
2008/03/24 12:49 You: let’s not have me show you how keeping order works so early in my tenure, hm?
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Jamie â€” sorry,
2008/03/24 12:49 You: I suggest that there’s a difference of opinion
2008/03/24 12:49 You: and that’s OK
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: just to clarify the issue.
2008/03/24 12:49 You: but SOME think it requires 5
2008/03/24 12:50 You: so if we do not get 5 there may be an appeal
2008/03/24 12:50 Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
2008/03/24 12:50 You: which is also OK .. and ALL that I suggest needs to be said just now
2008/03/24 12:50 You: now then
2008/03/24 12:51 You: Sonja, you’ve not spoken on this. Anything, before I ask for *brief* comments from citizens?
2008/03/24 12:51 Sonja Strom: I carefully explained my perspective in the Forum.
2008/03/24 12:51 Symo Kurka: lol
2008/03/24 12:51 You: fair enough 🙂 unless an RA member objects, I note we’re about 8 minutes into a 15 minute item, and I wish to ask for brief comments from anyone else present.
2008/03/24 12:52 Sonja Strom: Sorry, I can’t find the link at the moment…
2008/03/24 12:52 Beathan Vale: “The posts by others here after my entry have caused me to rethink my position. Although in honesty I still do not feel strongly about returning to the former method of voting, I will support doing that if it is better for our community.”
2008/03/24 12:52 Beathan Vale: last post in the URL I posted earlier
2008/03/24 12:52 Sonja Strom: If everyone wants, I can go over them again here.
2008/03/24 12:52 Jamie Palisades looks around … seeing no objection … (and thanks BV) … well let’s see if others wish to comment?
2008/03/24 12:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: im ready to vote
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: A question, if I may ask… will this still allow “blank votes”, ie., a way for people to enter the booth, register a vote as normal, but allow them NOT to vote on ANY party?
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (because a system where citizens cannot say NO is a poorly democratic one)
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn almost sounds like Prokofy 😛
2008/03/24 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: just dont vote then i guess
2008/03/24 12:53 Beathan Vale: well — citizens can choose not to vote at all
2008/03/24 12:53 You: could I ask Beathan as motion owner to reply?
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s different, princess
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: “not voting” is not the same thing as “voting no”
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Can a voter who does vote still vote blank, if this proposal passes?
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Beathan?
2008/03/24 12:54 Beathan Vale: I don’t see that process as being possible without faction elimination
2008/03/24 12:54 Beathan Vale: the blank vote is a faction elimination of all factions
2008/03/24 12:54 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
2008/03/24 12:54 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 12:54 Jamie Palisades notes that another option is to pass it, if it passes, and then let the SC work out what it means if it proves ambiguous, smile
2008/03/24 12:54 Sonja Strom: Here is my first set of comments: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628 and my second set: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1675&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10352
2008/03/24 12:54 Beathan Vale: Citizens remain free not to vote — so I don’t see a problem
2008/03/24 12:54 Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles back
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Ok, so Beathan has answered Gwyn in the negative
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Cindy?
2008/03/24 12:55 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Beathan
2008/03/24 12:55 Cindy Ecksol: I am not in favor of this bill. I think it takes away too much autonomy from individual voters. we would be better off modifying the exiting system (easily done) to mitigate the problems seen in the last election
2008/03/24 12:56 Cindy Ecksol: existing*
2008/03/24 12:56 You: Thank you.
2008/03/24 12:56 You: And bless you for being clear and brief.
2008/03/24 12:56 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
2008/03/24 12:56 Cindy Ecksol: yw
2008/03/24 12:56 You: two minutes remain
2008/03/24 12:56 You: any last words?
2008/03/24 12:56 Beathan Vale: I have a bit
2008/03/24 12:56 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:57 Beathan Vale: The use of the faction elimination rule has caused substantial problem and bad feeling — we should eliminate it and then go back to the drawing board to address Cindy’s concerns — we can pass a good fix from either the restored old Constitution or the new one
2008/03/24 12:57 Beathan Vale: done
2008/03/24 12:57 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 12:57 You: excellent and thanks. I suggest we are ready to vote.
2008/03/24 12:57 You: anything *urgent* Cindy?
2008/03/24 12:58 Tom Bukowski has to run to another meeting, but is glad he could sit in, and is going to talk to ThePrincess? and others about becoming a citizen! I’ll try to find the time… okay – cu all later!
2008/03/24 12:58 Jamie Palisades placidly watches the clock – and Cindy’s typing
2008/03/24 12:58 Cindy Ecksol: yes. I’ll just say that there’s no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. fix the problem properly, don’t go back to the old syste,m because the new is not what was expected
2008/03/24 12:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you tom
2008/03/24 12:58 Sonja Strom: bye Tom see you
2008/03/24 12:58 You: Ta Tom, thanks again, hope to see you around.
2008/03/24 12:58 Beathan Vale: I call the question
2008/03/24 12:58 You: OK. Thanks. Time to vote. I suggest we use alpha order – but sometimes reverse it 🙂
2008/03/24 12:58 Delia Lake: bye Tom
2008/03/24 12:59 You: By first name this time
2008/03/24 12:59 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/24 12:59 You: Members, please note your vote.
2008/03/24 12:59 You: Jamie votes aye.
2008/03/24 12:59 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 12:59 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 12:59 Naftali Torok: ave
2008/03/24 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: giggles
2008/03/24 13:00 Naftali Torok: lol
2008/03/24 13:00 You: Um, thanks Naftali, but RA members only
2008/03/24 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye for naftali, her fault
2008/03/24 13:00 You: Is that a “yes” giggle, Prin?
2008/03/24 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi looks at cindy and points to naf
2008/03/24 13:00 Naftali Torok: gigles
2008/03/24 13:00 You: OK, 5 votes. I declare it passes.
2008/03/24 13:00 Cindy Ecksol says ? to prin
2008/03/24 13:01 You: I will report that to the various appropriate parties. On to next item. It is 1 pm SLT.
2008/03/24 13:01 Beathan Vale: can we get an official “aye” from TP please
2008/03/24 13:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: theprincess votes AYE
2008/03/24 13:01 Beathan Vale: thanks
2008/03/24 13:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂

2008/03/24 13:01 You: Next item is the original 3, 5 minutes set for it, seeking a resolution from us to request a by-election, noting the two vacated seats unfilled.
2008/03/24 13:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
2008/03/24 13:02 You: can I get a motion that that effect?
2008/03/24 13:02 Beathan Vale: I move to request that the SC run a midterm election to fill vacant seats in the RA
2008/03/24 13:02 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 13:02 Jamie Palisades peers over his shoulder, planning to pin down Gwyn on that ‘yay’ later …
2008/03/24 13:02 You: any debate on this? Can we state ‘2 seats’ for clarity?
2008/03/24 13:02 Beathan Vale: 2 seats vacated by CSDF — remaining seats to be filled by faction per Constitution
2008/03/24 13:03 ThePrincess? Parisi: by a faction other than the CSDF correct?
2008/03/24 13:03 You: friendly amendment, OK with all? Any debate?
2008/03/24 13:03 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
2008/03/24 13:03 ThePrincess? Parisi: i am concerend that the CSDF at teh last minute will try to refill the seats.. and it is clear to me in the constuituion that would not be allowed
2008/03/24 13:03 You: um, no, The Princess, by anyone the electorate in its wisdom chooses from among persons lawfully nominated
2008/03/24 13:03 You: Here is where we are – ahem
2008/03/24 13:04 You: 2 seats vacant
2008/03/24 13:04 Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
2008/03/24 13:04 You: no appointment made
2008/03/24 13:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: there is a point in the constituion taht makes it very clear to me that they cannot
2008/03/24 13:04 You: so the Q is whether AFTER we declare them so here, and ask for election, a faction can fill them anyway and avoid the election
2008/03/24 13:04 You: and I suggest we recognize Ms Sword of Justrice there for a view – in her SC capacity not party capacity of course
2008/03/24 13:05 You: Gwyn?
2008/03/24 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes.. no but that if the CSDF has candidate that they indeed must fill them
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
2008/03/24 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: prior to the election , without it
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the by-election is just another election
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: but only for a limited number of seats
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: it goes through the whole motions,
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: candidates declaring willingness to serve
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15 days of campaigning
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 168 hours of voting
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: New and old parties can be formed and present candidates
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no restriction on *anything* on the Constitution.
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, if the RA wishes to impose new restrictions,
2008/03/24 13:06 You: Gwyneth, dear, so far you and I agree. But: if we today declare the seats vacant and ask for an election, does that terminate CDSF’s right to fill them by appontment, in your view?
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: they’re welcome to change it.
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes
2008/03/24 13:06 You: thanks
2008/03/24 13:07 You: I think that’s all we needed to know, really, isn’t it?
2008/03/24 13:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for the time.
2008/03/24 13:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe yes)
2008/03/24 13:07 Beathan Vale: there is a faster way — amend the Constitution to reduce the syze of the RA to 5 for this term only
2008/03/24 13:07 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 13:07 Beathan Vale: I will propose that and put in on next week’s agenda
2008/03/24 13:07 You: If some one wants to introduce a bill dissolving CSDF of course, they can – and then they can watch me do amusing things with the UDHR 🙂
2008/03/24 13:07 You: Cindy?
2008/03/24 13:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: can we really do that beathan? really we can?
2008/03/24 13:08 You: hmmmmm
2008/03/24 13:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA can do *anything* 😀
2008/03/24 13:08 You: let’s get Cindy’s comment and THEN go to the 5-versus-7 thing
2008/03/24 13:08 Cindy Ecksol: Is there anything in the constitution that requires those two seats to be filled? seems to me that CSDF can choose to sit in them or not, but I don’t see where it says in the Constitution that seats that are not being sat in must be take away from the party that contorls them and filled with a by election
2008/03/24 13:09 Cindy Ecksol: so why not just continue the RA meetings until the next full election comes up? why go to all this trouble?
2008/03/24 13:09 You: um – well, let me take a shot
2008/03/24 13:09 You: you’re probably right that not every corner is perfectly mitred off in that cabinet
2008/03/24 13:09 You: but
2008/03/24 13:09 You: if there are vacancies
2008/03/24 13:09 You: the better approach is to fill them, as otherwise we’re always one glitch away from a failure of quorum etc .. arguably
2008/03/24 13:10 You: so
2008/03/24 13:10 You: we have a motion on the table
2008/03/24 13:10 Cindy Ecksol: lol! I don’t think the constitution defies “vacancy”
2008/03/24 13:10 You: to declare vacancies .. (make a lawyer out of you yet, codergrrl) …
2008/03/24 13:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait, it does ” I’ll copy & paste the relevant passage
2008/03/24 13:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: check what she pastes
2008/03/24 13:11 You: OK but I am astisfie dthat the current motion is valid under the Constitution
2008/03/24 13:11 You: so let;s not go off on flights of fancy about what else we *might* do, please
2008/03/24 13:11 You: your presiding officer notes that time has expired
2008/03/24 13:11 You: does any RA member wish to amend or speak further to the motion on the table?
2008/03/24 13:11 Beathan Vale: let’s hold the by-election and intruduce a Constitutional amendment temporarily reducing the RA to 5 until the 2 seats are filled — I will draft and present
2008/03/24 13:11 You: hmmmmm
2008/03/24 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: only that i need to rethink the election and the wisdom of cindy my faction .. we need to talk to other faction memeber
2008/03/24 13:12 You: so that amendment would NOT need to precede this declaration, right?
2008/03/24 13:12 Beathan Vale: right
2008/03/24 13:12 You: well Prin
2008/03/24 13:12 Beathan Vale: if it fails — we have an RA of 7 with 5 members until filled
2008/03/24 13:12 You: if we do NOT act today, let me be clear 🙂 …
2008/03/24 13:12 Gwyneth Llewelyn: IV, 2, 1 ” 1) If the faction no longer meets the constitutional requirements or if no members of the faction are willing to serve, there shall be a special election to fill, for the remainder of the term, the seats left vacant.
2008/03/24 13:12 Beathan Vale: we should get the election rolling if we go that way — or we might as well not have it
2008/03/24 13:12 You: yes
2008/03/24 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok so gywenth you are missing a point dear
2008/03/24 13:12 You: BV said what I was going to
2008/03/24 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: at the point they become willing to serve
2008/03/24 13:13 You: are we ready for a vote on the motion?
2008/03/24 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: saying they run
2008/03/24 13:13 Beathan Vale: We also might want to consider allowing Chancellors to appoint RA members under these circumstances — as Governors can
2008/03/24 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: then the whole thing is moot
2008/03/24 13:13 You: hang on
2008/03/24 13:13 You: *ahem*
2008/03/24 13:13 Jamie Palisades looks around
2008/03/24 13:13 Cindy Ecksol: yes, I agree with prin.
2008/03/24 13:13 Moon Adamant listens interestedly
2008/03/24 13:14 You: There’s a motion on the table to declare the 2 seats vacant and ask for an election to fill them. It seems constitutional to me. May I call for a vote on it? Or does any RA member wish to change their position publicly before that?
2008/03/24 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps the chancellor will be unbiased
2008/03/24 13:14 Beathan Vale: Second the vote
2008/03/24 13:14 You: 🙂 later, dear
2008/03/24 13:14 MT Lundquist: i like the proposal to have the election but to temporarily reduce the ra to 5 pending the election results
2008/03/24 13:14 You: we can do THAT after we ask for the election, though
2008/03/24 13:14 Beathan Vale: MT — let’s give that idea time to percolate
2008/03/24 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theoretically, who calls the election is the SC anyway 😉
2008/03/24 13:14 MT Lundquist: yes i agree
2008/03/24 13:14 Beathan Vale: I just threw it out
2008/03/24 13:14 You: 🙂 but we are declaring the vacancies to make that clear …
2008/03/24 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, granted, it’s the RA that sets the date.
2008/03/24 13:15 You: OK folks. I ask members to vote on the ‘call the election’ motion now. I vote aye.
2008/03/24 13:15 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/24 13:15 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 13:15 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: please wait a second
2008/03/24 13:16 Beathan Vale: I move that we suspend committee reports this session
2008/03/24 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree there are seats that no longer exist but not that we must fill them ..
2008/03/24 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: i want to hear beathans five RA seats proposal so i vote nay
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: still passes 4 to 1
2008/03/24 13:17 You: Prin, 4-1 or 5-1, I will declare it passed either way. limits as to a date? Or ask them to propose one.
2008/03/24 13:17 You: Right – sorry – hang on –
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: I will propose my interim RA seat proposal next week
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: as soon as Constitutionally possible
2008/03/24 13:17 You: OK, now. I ask for 3 more minutes extension of this item, Any objections?
2008/03/24 13:17 MT Lundquist: no
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: no objection
2008/03/24 13:18 You: do we wish to give the SC and constraints on timing, now or even at next week’s meeting?
2008/03/24 13:18 You: *and > any
2008/03/24 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the RA’s prerrogative to set the date.
2008/03/24 13:18 You: just asking.
2008/03/24 13:18 You: exactly
2008/03/24 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: we havent discussed a date now so we cant do it today
2008/03/24 13:18 You: Not seeing any typing hand motions – so I suggest we take that up next week, along with Beathan’s temporary-5 idea.
2008/03/24 13:18 Beathan Vale: April 21 for polls closed? a bit more than 1 week to set up; 15 days campaign; then a vote
2008/03/24 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: it must be discussed right
2008/03/24 13:19 You: next week for that OK?
2008/03/24 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Beathan, that would be correct 🙂 )
2008/03/24 13:19 Beathan Vale: I move to set April 21 as the date
2008/03/24 13:19 MT Lundquist: set the date next week
2008/03/24 13:19 Beathan Vale: MT — that will lose us a week
2008/03/24 13:20 You: True — but where’s the fire, chief?
2008/03/24 13:20

Shrug

but if that is the consensus —
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: we cant set a date yet….what is your hurry beathan we dont need to rush do we 2008/03/24 13:20 You: what prin said 🙂
2008/03/24 13:20 Jamie Palisades looks around, sees no contrary views: next item is Reports
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:20 You: Beathan suggested we skip them. But
2008/03/24 13:20 Beathan Vale: I move to suspend reports to save time
2008/03/24 13:20 You: are any of the repiorting persons present?
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt get to talk on guided tour last week
2008/03/24 13:20 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: i wanna say a thing to the public
2008/03/24 13:20 Beathan Vale: OK —
2008/03/24 13:20 MT Lundquist: k
2008/03/24 13:21 Beathan Vale: let’s hear TP
2008/03/24 13:21 You: 🙂 events over take me .. any debate on Beathan’s motion to close ’em?
2008/03/24 13:21 Beathan Vale: withdrawn
2008/03/24 13:21 You: Beathan wihdraws his motion, smile
2008/03/24 13:21 You: Prin? 3 minutes on tour?
2008/03/24 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: i have not had patrticipation in something.s. and so i just wanna …………….well set the thing up with symos cloud nine, if the citizens dont like it we will change it ok ?
2008/03/24 13:21 Jamie Palisades mutters 1:21 – 1:24
2008/03/24 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats all i wanna say
2008/03/24 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: no one is answering me on the forums so ill just do it
2008/03/24 13:22 You: So basically, you will do a public beta test, hm? Sounds sensible
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: if you all dont like it we can change it .. ok .. done
2008/03/24 13:22 Beathan Vale: you plan sounded good
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: yeah
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok im done
2008/03/24 13:22 You: Does that somehow blow a budget that would make it imposible for us to change later? 2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: symo and me will set it up asap
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: nooo
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: ill pay what the budget doesnt have
2008/03/24 13:22 You: OK then – thx for report 🙂 and thx for your work and contributions
2008/03/24 13:22 You: next – Commerce – anything quick, MT?
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: no
2008/03/24 13:23 MT Lundquist: nothing this week
2008/03/24 13:23 You: RA process – heh heh – maybe we should hold that one off for later on this agenda? 2008/03/24 13:23 Beathan Vale: nothing on elections — but I am sure we will have a long report soon 2008/03/24 13:23 You: ir is there somethign to say about the *commission*/
2008/03/24 13:23 You: ?
2008/03/24 13:23 Beathan Vale: RA process discussions have closed and the proposal is ready
2008/03/24 13:23 Beathan Vale: recent amendment to overcome objections to Roberts’ Rules
2008/03/24 13:24 You: OK. Good, reports over and thank you.
2008/03/24 13:24 You: And let me note in passing
2008/03/24 13:24 You: we need to sort out Brian’s statutory revision thing – but not right now
2008/03/24 13:24 You: next ===
2008/03/24 13:24 Cindy Ecksol thinks “But Jamie’s Rules” are working fine….
2008/03/24 13:24 You: item 5: RA process …
2008/03/24 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks along the same lines as Cindy 🙂
2008/03/24 13:24 You: eh, but Cin, the terror wears thin after a while …
2008/03/24 13:24 Cindy Ecksol: lol!
2008/03/24 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah!
2008/03/24 13:25 You: Process. PLEASE NOTE we’ve alreday confirmed the adoption of two of those reform items …
2008/03/24 13:25 Beathan Vale: Jamie’s rules are compatible with the second alternative 3 — and I favor that section at this point
2008/03/24 13:25 Cindy Ecksol thinks that even a demon suit didn’t help Pat’s Rules
2008/03/24 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: cindy will beat me for you jamie
2008/03/24 13:25 You: .. see earlier in this meeting.
2008/03/24 13:25 You: OK ahem.
2008/03/24 13:25 You: I object to your last comment Cindy.
2008/03/24 13:25 You: Let’s keep it to issues not personalities.
2008/03/24 13:25 Cindy Ecksol: withdrawn
2008/03/24 13:25 You: thanks
2008/03/24 13:26 You: item 5: Beathan, I thikn the best way to proceed …
2008/03/24 13:26 You: would be for you to intro by motion the bits and pieces left over, one by one, as you see fit in order
2008/03/24 13:26 Beathan Vale: Given the opposition to RROs, I withdraw Paragraph 3 — and I think that Pat’s alternative to PAragraph 3 was already rejected by thje last session — so we have one remaining alternative to vore on
2008/03/24 13:26 You: that work?
2008/03/24 13:26 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 13:26 You: OK. Please set up the last item – and I will fetch URI
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale: The RA procedurescan be modified by the RA — and should always be considered experimental
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale gave you RA Process Bill.
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale: Jamie –I’ve given you a note — might be easier
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale: not sure how to distribute it though
2008/03/24 13:27 Jamie Palisades notes the orig posted text for Beathan’s changes: (hoping he’s right) /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1596#p9784
2008/03/24 13:28 You: And we have a notecard from Beathan too – hang on –
2008/03/24 13:28 You: OK are you proposing 4 or alternative 4?
2008/03/24 13:28 You: This is the “citizen input” concept
2008/03/24 13:28 Beathan Vale: We are still on 3
2008/03/24 13:28 Beathan Vale: and I am proposing Second Alternative 3
2008/03/24 13:29 You: Oh I get it – no RRO, but yes for detailed rules. Correct?
2008/03/24 13:29 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 13:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: and im supposed to know when i can talk or not?
2008/03/24 13:29 You: ha ha let’s get a motion. I assume Beathan moves it
2008/03/24 13:30 You: and here it is, sorry for long paste –
2008/03/24 13:30 You: Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of 2 hours, with no less than a 10 minute open discussion time allowed at the end and no less than 10 minutes of administrative time set at the beginning. During the administrative time, the LRA shall perform administrative business on the RA agenda (such electing and swearing in a Chancellor and swearing in new members) and shall entertain procedural motions from the RA (such as motions to adjust the order of the agenda, extend or adjust time for debate, or to move a item designated as “noncontroversial” to a “consent agenda” in the next session; or to move an item on the “consent agenda” to the end of the agenda for debate) and shall ask the RA to pass the “consent agenda” without debate. Each item on the agenda shall be allocated a time for debate by the LRA. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 munutes for debate. …
2008/03/24 13:30 Beathan Vale: I move adoption of the rule process in Second Alternative 3
2008/03/24 13:30 You: …
2008/03/24 13:30 You: If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 munutes for debate. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation may be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 15 minutes for debate. All members of the RA and all citizens in attendance at the RA shall indicate to the LRA, before the start of the RA session or during the first ten minutes of the session, whether they wish to speak on an item on the agenda, and which side they wish to speak on. Time for debate shall be allocated as follows: for ten minute matters (2 minutes pro; 2 minutes con; 1/2 minutes pro rebuttal; 1/2 minutes con rebuttal; 5 minutes for RA q&A vote); for 15 minute matters (3 minutes pro; 3 minutes con; 2 minutes pro rebuttal; 2 minutes con rebuttal; 5 minutes RA Q&A; vote); time longer debates shall be set by the LRA, with each side getting equal time for original statements and for rebuttal, with pro going first, and con going second. … 2008/03/24 13:31 You: …
2008/03/24 13:31 You: The LRA shall divide time for debate between those wishing to speak pro and con, with the provision that half the time for debate shall be reserved for RA members wishing to speak on a matter. Prior to debate, the LRA shall announce the order of speakers and the time allowed for each speaker. Speakers may speak to the issue for the time allowed, or cede their time to another speaker of record. During the time allowed for speaking, the speaker shall not be interrupted by any person in attendance. No speaker shall speak longer than the allocated time. Following debate, the RA shall either move to vote on the issue; move for futher debate; or move to allow amendments and further debate. If the RA wishes further debate or amendments, no vote shall be held, and the matter shall be tabled until the next session of the RA, at which time the matter shall be considered as a “prior matter of the RA” on the agenda, and shall be considered to be controversial for the purpose of setting time for debate. …
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: need time to read that all…:)
2008/03/24 13:31 You: ha ha
2008/03/24 13:31 You: oen more
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: jaja
2008/03/24 13:31 You: … If the RA has voted to allow amendments, the matter shall be tabled and amendments shall be drafted and submitted to the LRA and posted on the forums at least one day prior to the date on which the LRA is to publish the RA agenda. Violation of these rules shall be enforced by the LRA, first by warning and then by temporary banning (the banned person shall be removed from the banlist as soon as the meeting is concluded); citizens may be temporarily banned by the LRA, but RA members shall not be banned except by supermajority vote of the RA.
2008/03/24 13:31 You: Now
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: help
2008/03/24 13:31 You: needless to say the RA members all have that notecard
2008/03/24 13:31 You: AND
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: ok
2008/03/24 13:32 You: we need better procedures for advance posting!
2008/03/24 13:32 You: which is … what this is about, ta-dum 🙂
2008/03/24 13:32 You: so
2008/03/24 13:32 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
2008/03/24 13:32 Moon Adamant: bit dense…
2008/03/24 13:32 Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
2008/03/24 13:32 You: is there a second to Beathan’s motion?
2008/03/24 13:32 You: ain;t no action without that, kids
2008/03/24 13:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/24 13:33 You: Coolio. NOW it;s a good time to talk, starting with Beathan & thePrincess who have requested it
2008/03/24 13:33 You: BV? TPP?
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: ?
2008/03/24 13:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan ..
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: OK
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: This procedure is designed to give us a streamlined, evenly balanced (fair) and known process for debate int he rA
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: until now, the LRA has determined the extent and pace of debate – -and that leads to bad feelings
2008/03/24 13:35 Beathan Vale: also, RA sessions have run long — and keep getting longer
2008/03/24 13:35 Beathan Vale: This is an experiment to reign in these tendencies while allowing full and fair debate
2008/03/24 13:35 Beathan Vale: that is all
2008/03/24 13:35 You: Prin you had somethign too?
2008/03/24 13:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: no not anymore im good
2008/03/24 13:36 You: OK, Other RA member comments?
2008/03/24 13:36 MT Lundquist: none
2008/03/24 13:36 Sonja Strom: I would like to thank Beathan for all of his hard work on this.
2008/03/24 13:36 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: amen
2008/03/24 13:36 Naftali Torok: lol
2008/03/24 13:37 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:37 You: I’ll give you my personal view. First, I suspect these are too structured — and more an attempt to deal with last month’s issues (LRA at odds with the RA). Cat’s out of that bag. So I have doubts about this. BUT I am biased! For one thing I’m LRA now. For another, I’m new here. So I am content to try these, if that’s what the majority wants to do.
2008/03/24 13:38 You: 9 minutes remain on our planned time for this. Any comments from citizens?
2008/03/24 13:38 Jamie Palisades looks around, hears nothing
2008/03/24 13:38 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
2008/03/24 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: then lets vote
2008/03/24 13:39 You: We ready for a vote then?
2008/03/24 13:39 Gwyneth Llewelyn: this particular citizen can only commend the RA’s attempt at more structured discussions and thank you all for the proposal.
2008/03/24 13:39 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:39 MT Lundquist: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:39 You: Members please state their vote. I abstain.
2008/03/24 13:39 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 13:39 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/24 13:40 You: I am going to hazard a guess that its author votes in favor also. I declare it passed. May we take its effective date as the start of the next meeting, so I don’t have to learn all this stuff in 20 seconds?
2008/03/24 13:41 Beathan Vale: aYE
2008/03/24 13:41 You: any object to kicking it off with next mtg? If I hear none I so rule
2008/03/24 13:41 Sonja Strom: I move that these rules take effect starting next session.
2008/03/24 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/24 13:41 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 13:41 You: thx – no vote needed if no objections
2008/03/24 13:41 MT Lundquist: no objection
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: no objection
2008/03/24 13:42 You: ok – hm – 4 mins left here – BV, do you want to take up another piece?
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: I think that 4 is better than alt 4
2008/03/24 13:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree
2008/03/24 13:42 You: so you are moving it?
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: alt 4 is like RL — but we are not so large that we need a filter between citizens and legslation
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: So I move approval of 4
2008/03/24 13:43 MT Lundquist: second 2008/03/24 13:43 You: a second? 2008/03/24 13:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/24 13:43 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/24 13:43 You: OK and here it is: “4. Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the “legislative discussion” forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda. ” 2008/03/24 13:43 Beathan Vale: Also — i think that 5 is no longer needed given passage of the procedures we passed 2008/03/24 13:43 You: comments from RA members? 2008/03/24 13:43 You: on 4 that is 2008/03/24 13:43 MT Lundquist: none 2008/03/24 13:43 Jamie Palisades suspects none, all having already stated their love for it 2008/03/24 13:43 Sonja Strom: I agree with Beathan on his choice. 2008/03/24 13:44 Beathan Vale: move 4 2008/03/24 13:44 You: comments from citizens on proposed motion “#4” about citizens proposing legislation? 2008/03/24 13:44 Sonja Strom: second 2008/03/24 13:44 You: Already got motion & second, thx 2008/03/24 13:44 Sonja Strom: sorry 2008/03/24 13:44 You: no comments? happy thanes all? 2008/03/24 13:45 Jamie Palisades looks around for type-y gestures … 2008/03/24 13:45 Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* 2008/03/24 13:45 MT Lundquist: prin crashed i think 2008/03/24 13:45 You: Are we ready to vote? 2008/03/24 13:45 Beathan Vale: aye and aye 2008/03/24 13:45 You: s’ok 2008/03/24 13:45 You: OK, members please state your vote. 2008/03/24 13:45 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/24 13:45 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/24 13:45 You: and we have BV = aye 2008/03/24 13:45 You: and I vote aye 2008/03/24 13:46 Beathan Vale: Again — paragraph 5 is no longer needed — so I withdraw it 2008/03/24 13:46 You: no one having complained otherwise, we are quorate, so I suggest we note #4 passing with one abstension. I declare it so. 2008/03/24 13:46 You: And BV is going to take a pass on #5 – whicih I agree makes sense. 2008/03/24 13:46 You: Agenda item completed. === 2008/03/24 13:47 You: next item = #6, volunteers 2008/03/24 13:47 Beathan Vale: As we are running out of time, I would like to move to continue 2008/03/24 13:47 You: but that’s prin’s, hm 2008/03/24 13:47 You: continue what? 2008/03/24 13:47 Beathan Vale: 6-8 to next session 2008/03/24 13:47 MT Lundquist: i’m sure she will be back shortly 2008/03/24 13:47 MT Lundquist: she has router problems 2008/03/24 13:47 Beathan Vale: and move to open discussion and discussion of the future of the CDS 2008/03/24 13:48 Beathan Vale: I can’t stay passed 2 — senior partner hovering 2008/03/24 13:48 You: ah, OK, the proposal is to move agenda item 10 to the next item 2008/03/24 13:48 You: any objections? 2008/03/24 13:48 MT Lundquist: agreed 2008/03/24 13:48 Sonja Strom: I agree with Beathan. === 2008/03/24 13:49 You: OK: CDS strategy. Let me ask – do we need a citizen open mic session in this meeting, Mr. Rule Reform with a Mohawk? 2008/03/24 13:50 Beathan Vale: if citizens are interested — we should hear them 2008/03/24 13:50 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear (pun intended) 2008/03/24 13:50 Beathan Vale: Salzie is not here – -and one of the discussion items was hers 2008/03/24 13:50 You: ok. Kick off the “strategic” item with any comments from RA members? 2008/03/24 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry 2008/03/24 13:51 You: NP Prin will IM you with what you missed, now 2008/03/24 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok i crashed 2008/03/24 13:51 Beathan Vale: I see the need for us to grow much faster than we have — 2008/03/24 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: you have to start a new conference of IM 2008/03/24 13:51 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 2008/03/24 13:51 Beathan Vale: and, in doing that, become more like the Federal system we have modeled in our Constitution 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: if we don’t, and retain like a little township, we will need great reform to reconcile our small size with our pretensions 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: so — I tend to disagree with Salzie that the planning should come first — I would be happy to let us grow organically — and grow into ourselves that way 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: we have a state system we have not yet lived up to and filled out — but we can 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: that is all 2008/03/24 13:53 Moon Adamant: like in the mainland? 🙂 2008/03/24 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol moon 2008/03/24 13:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn notices the ‘federal’ swearword popping in 2008/03/24 13:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 2008/03/24 13:53 Beathan Vale: no — not like the Mainland — we will have controlled and regualted growth 2008/03/24 13:53 Beathan Vale: and no advertising
2008/03/24 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: of course its not mainland 2008/03/24 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: its private sims did you know you dont pay tier to the lindens moon 2008/03/24 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: the mainland scare tactic
2008/03/24 13:54 Beathan Vale: we can control things with an architecture control committee and land use regulations
2008/03/24 13:54 Jamie Palisades smiles – no proble with this being freeform, but let’s not lose the points bieng made. Beathan says “fast growth” is an imperative. Is that a widely shared view?
2008/03/24 13:54 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: im thnking more having a thing like a competitive bid process since the volunteer system seems so stretched and well, not willing
2008/03/24 13:54 Sonja Strom: yes, in the DPU it is. 2008/03/24 13:55 Beathan Vale: there is some disgreement on this in the SP
2008/03/24 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: all manifestos professed a desire for growth
2008/03/24 13:55 Jamie Palisades notes his gratitude for our volunteers and leaves it at that for the moment
2008/03/24 13:55 Beathan Vale: some want more deliberate growth
2008/03/24 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: all of them with the majoirtiy p factions being the most outrageous
2008/03/24 13:55 Beathan Vale: but I go for growth “with all deliberate speed”
2008/03/24 13:55 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 13:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: of course jamie we all want to honor volunteers .. and i have a bill a month or two old that says that
2008/03/24 13:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: can cindy speak please
2008/03/24 13:57 Jamie Palisades mutters which is on our agenda but was delayed to after this item, so it’s probably a next week thing
2008/03/24 13:57 You: yes please Cindy 2008/03/24 13:57 Cindy Ecksol: regarding the new sim development process: it seems to me that the slowness of the process is NOT about the availability of qualified volunteers, but about the guild process for setting up the group that will do the work
2008/03/24 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: interesting tell us more 2008/03/24 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: i had no idea
2008/03/24 13:58 Cindy Ecksol: not sure a “competitive bidding process” bill will fix that problem — more likely just annoy the guild
2008/03/24 13:58 You: (ahem) please continue 2008/03/24 13:58 Moon Adamant listens
2008/03/24 13:59 Cindy Ecksol: there are plenty of alts who are willing to work on building for sure, and I suspect there are some who would help with the design. just have to figure out a way to get them organized.
2008/03/24 13:59 Cindy Ecksol: everything seems to be falling on the backs of those who have the least time available —
2008/03/24 14:00 Cindy Ecksol: not sure how to fix this, but there ought to be a way….
2008/03/24 14:00 Beathan Vale: I have to go — thanks for coming, all
2008/03/24 14:00 Cindy Ecksol: not alts…meant avs…
2008/03/24 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
2008/03/24 14:00 MT Lundquist: bye beathan
2008/03/24 14:00 Moon Adamant: see you Beathan
2008/03/24 14:00 You: thanks.
2008/03/24 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: moon how do we fix that.. may i comment
2008/03/24 14:00 Moon Adamant: may i speak, after you Princess?
2008/03/24 14:01 Pip Torok: I have to go now as well.
2008/03/24 14:01 Moon Adamant: bye Pip 🙂
2008/03/24 14:01 Symo Kurka: bye Pip
2008/03/24 14:01 You: This is open chat so I see no reason bot to continue insofrmally if opeople wish – any objection to that from RA members?
2008/03/24 14:01 Sonja Strom: bye Pip 🙂
2008/03/24 14:01 You: sorry for the typos – bye Pip – shall we go on, then, for now?
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: only that i have been to guild meetings.. and for example instead of having a call out for volutneers in the whole.. then the guild.. will decide who they want of the old shcool to do a thing
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: and not open it to everyone
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: i have seen that with my own oeyes
2008/03/24 14:01 Moon Adamant: listens
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: and had myself called down when i mentioned it
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have tons of new ppl who want WANT to help
2008/03/24 14:02 You: Hm. Well, I see a couple of ways for ThePreincess? to address that if she believes she as a participant has been excluded. But none of them involve a debate of personalities here.
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: and i am amazed at the old school trying to keep a thing to down
2008/03/24 14:02 Moon Adamant: may i speak?
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: no ep personalities were mentioned
2008/03/24 14:02 You: A sec, please
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes im done 2008/03/24 14:02 You: Fine. Moon?
2008/03/24 14:02 Moon Adamant waits for LRA 2008/03/24 14:02 Moon Adamant: ok 2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: first of all
2008/03/24 14:03 Delia Lake: It is my recollection that notices of guild meetings go out to the CDS as a whole. sorry for speaking out of turn
2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: the charter of the guild is very specific
2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: all citizens of teh CDS can belong to the Guild board
2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: they are welcome 2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: we hold meetiings regularly,m which are duly announced
2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: btw, and on a side issue 2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: i just published a proposal of procedures for teh board meetings
2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: seeing that they’re generally well attended 2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: and to try and fix the informal rules we already use
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: and specify more clearly quorums for votations and meetings themselves
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: also, Faculty will publish its own rules hmmm
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: opportunately
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: seeing that they have to calculate quorum in a different way
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: so
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: if people do not appear at guild meetings
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: which are open to everyone
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: and wheereveryone is heard
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: is because tehy don’t want to
2008/03/24 14:07 You: Moon, let me know when you’re done, pls, no rush
2008/03/24 14:07 Moon Adamant: we’re even now trying to discuss a better time for guild meeting to pull up attendance
2008/03/24 14:07 Moon Adamant: so, i do not understand
2008/03/24 14:07 Moon Adamant: what do you mean Princess
2008/03/24 14:07 You: han gon
2008/03/24 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
2008/03/24 14:08 You: letme insert myself before this becomes more debate than discussion, please
2008/03/24 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: well first.. well then np we buy a sim when we have one presented and build one we can……….
2008/03/24 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: and second …
2008/03/24 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: we need to see evidence of every position and job being posted for all of the community to do 2008/03/24 14:08 Jamie Palisades waits for ThePrincess’s next (and last) comment for the moment
2008/03/24 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: so everyone has a chance to share.. i know there are ppl dying to share, they come to me and ask .. we need them all to FEEL welcome.. so suggeetions on that
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant raises her hadn again, after pincess ends
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant: Princes*
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant: Princess* sorry
2008/03/24 14:09 You: ok. ===
2008/03/24 14:09 You: can we interrupt for a time/agenda check please
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant: surely
2008/03/24 14:10 Naftali Torok: good, i have to say good bye also now,
2008/03/24 14:10 Naftali Torok: other duties are calling me
2008/03/24 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: bye naffie
2008/03/24 14:10 You: we’re over scheduled time and I do not think we will have any more *offical* business today, so I do want to release RA members from their obligations here
2008/03/24 14:10 Moon Adamant: bye naftali! 🙂
2008/03/24 14:10 MT Lundquist: bye naftali
2008/03/24 14:10 Sonja Strom: bye Naftali
2008/03/24 14:10 Naftali Torok: thanks everybody
2008/03/24 14:10 You: if folks want to continue to chat informally, fine …
2008/03/24 14:10 Moon Adamant: hello Rose 🙂
2008/03/24 14:10 Sonja Strom: Hi Rose 🙂
2008/03/24 14:10 You: … thanks Naftali …
2008/03/24 14:10 MT Lundquist: hi Rose 2008/03/24 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: hi rose
2008/03/24 14:10 Moon Adamant: well, Jamie 2008/03/24 14:10 Symo Kurka: hello rose
2008/03/24 14:10 You: .. and I suspect some informal chat *is* needed
2008/03/24 14:10 Rose Springvale: hi
2008/03/24 14:11 Moon Adamant: i myself have some work to do, but i can give you all a few more minutes
2008/03/24 14:11 Naftali Torok: welcome for a drink in the AM Taverna , will keep you informed when we are ready for the first mucsic event there
2008/03/24 14:11 Sonja Strom: The Forums can be a good resource too, for discussion.
2008/03/24 14:11 Moon Adamant: would you care to time the rest of teh discussion please? suggest a duration?
2008/03/24 14:11 Naftali Torok: waves a cold snowy hug from Holland……
2008/03/24 14:11 You: Would anyone object to our adjoruning the RA meeting, and continuing informally, for say 20 mins?
2008/03/24 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: we will be there soon naf
2008/03/24 14:11 Rose Springvale: waves to all her friends and tries not to disrupt
2008/03/24 14:11 You: (with no attendance obligations)
2008/03/24 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: second on adjourn and 20
2008/03/24 14:11 Sonja Strom: no objection to that.
2008/03/24 14:12 MT Lundquist: i’m happy jamie
2008/03/24 14:12 Moon Adamant: i second
2008/03/24 14:12 You: Ok. hearing none, RA is adjourned, thank you, and Moon, it was your turn to chat?
2008/03/24 14:12 Moon Adamant: if Princess has finished?
2008/03/24 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
2008/03/24 14:12 Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!~

Permalink.

RA Meeting; March 30, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:

1. Administrative matters. (15 minutes: 12h00 – 12h15)

1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Note the new RA meeting procedural rules and their effects. (J Palisades)
1c. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1d. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1e. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
(1.f.1) Proposal to make the no-hub status of Colonia Nova permanent (A Kurka)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

2. RA Quorum issue. (15 minutes: 12h15 – 12h30)
2a. Proposal to reduce the number of RA members from 7 to 5 temporarily until the two vacant seats are filled by election. (B Vale)
2b. Proposal to adopt an RA rule regarding how quorum is calculated. (J Palisades)
2c. Other?

3. Election rule changes, if any, for the by-election. (15 minutes: 12h30-12h45)

3a. Proposal to increase the minimum faction size. (TP Parisi)
3b. Permanent change to number of RA members
3c. Other?

4. Set dates for by-election. (10 minutes: 12h45-12h55)

5. Final report from Commerce Commission (MT Lundquist) (5 minutes: 12h55-13h00) — Action items reported out to RA

6. Report from Tour Commission (TP Parisi) (5 minutes: 13h00-13h05)

7. Fourth CDS Sim Planning (20 minutes: 13h05-13h25)
7a. Report from New Guild, reactions/questions to RA resolutions on sim plan, location (M Adamant)
7b. Guild expectations regarding fourth sim timing (M Adamant)
7c. RA expectations & any financial considerations regarding fourth sim timing
7d. Other?

8. Proposed Celebrating our Volunteers Bill (10 minutes: 13h25-13h35)

9. Proposed Greener Sims Bill (10 minutes: 13h35-13h45)

NEW ITEMS

10. Other?

11. Open Discussion (15 minutes: 13h45-14h00)

Adjournment: 14h00
Summary

30 March 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
===
[12;10] Called to order.
[12:08] 1b – Note on new RA operating procedures.
[12:13] 1c – Agenda reviewed and modified.
[12;19] 1d – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[12:24] 1e – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[12:24] 1f – Consent agenda. Alexicon Kurka proposal to make nonhub status of Colonia Nova permanent: Motion adopted 5-0-0.
[12:30] 2 – Representative Assembly quorum and vote counting.
— Motion stated at [12:44]. Motion re-stated at [12:54]. Motion adopted 4-1-0 at 12:59.
[13:00] 3 – Election rules.
— Motion stated at [13:14], based on description at [13:09].
—- Amendment stated at [13:17].
—— Amendment to amendment stated at [13:18]. Accepted as friendly amendment at [13:18].
—- Amendment (as amended) adopted 5-0-0 at [13:29].
— Motion (as amended) adopted 5-0-0 at [13:32].
[13:32] 3b – Permanent changes to RA size – discussion only.
[13:38] 4 – By-election date.
— Motion stated at [13:57]. Motion adopted 5-0-0 at [14:00].
[14:04] Adjournment.
Transcript

====
Transcript of 30 March 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “===” inserted to separate agenda items
===
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: Any objection to us beginning? Beathan’s bill has us on a tight schedule 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:07] Patroklus Murakami: you only did 1-3
[2008/03/30 12:07] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/03/30 12:07] Beathan Vale: let’s go
[2008/03/30 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 😉
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: it would of course require that we hold the Land debate until it comes up …
[2008/03/30 12:07] Troy McLuhan: Hi
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: good
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: Hello al
[2008/03/30 12:07] Beathan Vale: Pat — not true — read the transcript
[2008/03/30 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: hi
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: OK. ENOUGH
[2008/03/30 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: please hold further land spats for the ‘land spat’ item – which we certainly do have 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: and pat, beathan is a lawyer
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: Prin. Out of order. As will anyone else be. Hush, all, please.
[2008/03/30 12:08] Beathan Vale: lol — not that that means much
[2008/03/30 12:08] Beathan Vale: OK
[2008/03/30 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh did we start?
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: We’re in session. 5 out of 5 seated RA members present.
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: As of now, Prin. Please note our agenda here:
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1699
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: Which I am following – and which has time limits.
[2008/03/30 12:09] You: First, woudl everyone present please assent to being recorded in our transcript.
[2008/03/30 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi shivers
[2008/03/30 12:09] You: I assent.
[2008/03/30 12:09] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] Patroklus Murakami: i consent to being recorded
[2008/03/30 12:09] Pip Torok: i assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i do too
[2008/03/30 12:09] Troy McLuhan: Me too
[2008/03/30 12:10] Sonja Strom: Welcome Cynwulf, please have a seat.
[2008/03/30 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi waves at troy
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: Thanks, Beathan would you look and see if we missed any, as a favor?
[2008/03/30 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely does, so long as you use a Creative Commons Attribution License on all my words
[2008/03/30 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: 🙂 let’s talk Gwyn about how to make that happen more generally?
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: later of course
[2008/03/30 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
====
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: item 1b
[2008/03/30 12:11] You: I call to your attention that we have some new methods that were proposed at the last meeting
[2008/03/30 12:11] You: They result in there being times and limits on each posted agenda item
[2008/03/30 12:11] Cynwulf Darwin: Sorry, O’m lagging
[2008/03/30 12:11] You: for today if no one objects, since Beathan wrote that procedure I will ask him informally to help me keep track of those times
[2008/03/30 12:12] Sonja Strom: no objection
[2008/03/30 12:12] You: for the future I think we need a parliamentarian, and will suggest something about that by our next meeting
[2008/03/30 12:12] Sonja Strom: …except, he might have crashed.
[2008/03/30 12:12] You: haha
[2008/03/30 12:12] Sonja Strom: Welcome Alexicon.
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: hello all.
[2008/03/30 12:13] Alexicon Kurka: hi
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: Well, when Beathan is here 🙂 I will ask for his informal help as available, then
====
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: next is item 1c
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: please review our agenda – at the Forum URI posted in open chat a few minutes ago
[2008/03/30 12:14] You: no action needed unless anyone wishes to amend .. and I have two items on that
[2008/03/30 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone needs a notecard agenda
[2008/03/30 12:14] Alexicon Kurka: yes please
[2008/03/30 12:14] You: 1. Is everyone on the RA OK with Alexicon’s proposal to make nonhub permanent in CN being a no-fuyss consent item? He posted his recommendation last week
[2008/03/30 12:14] Jamie Palisades looks around for reactions
[2008/03/30 12:15] Sonja Strom: I think it is good.
[2008/03/30 12:15] Troy McLuhan: May I comment?
[2008/03/30 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/03/30 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: it has been a great success and i hear NFS needs it too actually
[2008/03/30 12:15] MT Lundquist: i’m happy for a no specific tp yes
[2008/03/30 12:15] You: Let’s see if there are any objhections first, Troy, if all agree, no need to debate
[2008/03/30 12:15] Troy McLuhan: When I teleport to “Colonia Nove” with no coordinates speicified, I end up in some kind of store without a door – very confusing
[2008/03/30 12:15] Troy McLuhan: “Colonia Nova”
[2008/03/30 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/03/30 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: MTs shop
[2008/03/30 12:16] You: I hear no obj to it being a consent tiem – as item 1 f 1
[2008/03/30 12:16] You: ahem Troy? please wait for item 1 f 1 🙂 I will tell you
[2008/03/30 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (good, I had the same objection as Troy too!)
[2008/03/30 12:16] You: second agenda amendment question – we are on item 1C posted at /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1699
[2008/03/30 12:17] You: Alexicon has reminded me that it’s time for his monthly report to the RA
[2008/03/30 12:17] You: as Chancellor
[2008/03/30 12:17] Alexicon Kurka: we can do that at the end of the RA
[2008/03/30 12:18] You: any RA member object?
[2008/03/30 12:18] You: we have 5 mins of slack as scheduled, smile
[2008/03/30 12:18] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/03/30 12:18] MT Lundquist: fine
[2008/03/30 12:18] Sonja Strom: no objection
[2008/03/30 12:19] You: good, done, ALexi is item – um – 11, moving open chat to 12
===
[2008/03/30 12:19] You: next item is 1d
[2008/03/30 12:19] You: This is simply a notice – please note: if you want to speak here …
[2008/03/30 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: on a specific item, you get some privilg\eged time to do so IF you notify me now 🙂 IM is fine too
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: just a sec Gwyn
[2008/03/30 12:20] Sonja Strom: wb Beathan 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: under Beathan’s 24 March rules, any citizen who wants to speak on an item gets special priority to speak if they say so now, smile. … and I have one request so far FYI.
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: Yes Gwyneth?
[2008/03/30 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just wanted to know if speaking on the agenda points is limited to RA members…
[2008/03/30 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if not, may I sign myself in for 2a.? 😉
[2008/03/30 12:21] Beathan Vale: no
[2008/03/30 12:21] You: nope 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/03/30 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: And let me refer to you the rules we are using: posted at:
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: by the way
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: Patroklus has asked me some great questions about them – which we will need to work over – but I do not propose to takje them on live in today;s meeting
[2008/03/30 12:23] You: I hope to emulate the British model and “muddle through” for now 😀
[2008/03/30 12:23] You: so
[2008/03/30 12:23] You: Gwyn did you have a specific agenda item in mind, so we can save you a slot?
[2008/03/30 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2a
[2008/03/30 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: possibly 3b
[2008/03/30 12:24] Sonja Strom: I would like to speak on 3a
===
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: OK, done 🙂 agenda item 1e is ministerial announcement only:
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: if anyone sees flaws in the transcripts or summaries, please for heaven’s sake post to correct them, or let me know 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:24] ThePrincess Parisi: we got to talk as RA members anyway sonja
===
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: item 1 f 1
[2008/03/30 12:24] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks TP, I was wondering about that.
[2008/03/30 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: Alexicon has a suggestion about the CN hub – can you state it, Alexi?
[2008/03/30 12:25] Alexicon Kurka: The Ra has decided to have a trail period in order to test the influence of direct TP on Colonia Nova
[2008/03/30 12:25] Alexicon Kurka: This trial period has expired
[2008/03/30 12:26] Alexicon Kurka: and has been concluded by a citizen’s survey
[2008/03/30 12:26] Alexicon Kurka: The results of this survey is on the forums and supports making direct teleportation on Colonia Nova permanent
[2008/03/30 12:26] Alexicon Kurka: The RA should vote on that now
[2008/03/30 12:27] You: Here: /viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1692
[2008/03/30 12:27] You: May I suggest that until someone OBJECTS we treate it as consent without any debate
[2008/03/30 12:28] You: Troy? others> any prob with doing as Alexi suggested?
[2008/03/30 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: not from me
[2008/03/30 12:28] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/03/30 12:28] Alexicon Kurka: You should also consider such a trial on NFS too
[2008/03/30 12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, no objections here either — and I definitely second Alex’s suggestion for NFS
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ive heard citizens say that alexicon
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: OK I call for a vote, then. Need a motion?
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: I so move
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: Members please note your vote. I vote aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: vote for both?
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: just cn or that we do both
[2008/03/30 12:29] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: no for the agenda-ed item, CN only
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: just CN
[2008/03/30 12:29] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: kk
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: NFS not before us yet
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: 🙂 unanimous
[2008/03/30 12:29] Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: and thank you Alexi and Troy
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: and let’s have that NFS chat too – not gonna fit today though 😛
[2008/03/30 12:30] Alexicon Kurka: sure
===
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: 2 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: RA quorum
[2008/03/30 12:31] You: Beathan had indicated a plan to temporarily reduce the RA seat number
[2008/03/30 12:32] Beathan Vale: I would like to get the sense of the SC on that — it would be pointless if they will invalidate it after the fact
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: I have two citizens as well who wish to speak
[2008/03/30 12:32] Beathan Vale: that would create even more confusion
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: 🙂 I may suggest its not necessary
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: but irst
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: *first
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: I note no motion on the table
[2008/03/30 12:33] You: 🙂 nothing to discuss- yet
[2008/03/30 12:34] You: I think Gwyn and Pat both indicated an interst – do either of them wish to make short remarks now, failing any motion pending?
[2008/03/30 12:34] Beathan Vale: I want to hear from Gwynn in particular — I may withdraw my proposal
[2008/03/30 12:34] Patroklus Murakami: no thank you jamie. without a motion or proposal there’s really nothing to discuss 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:34] Patroklus Murakami: if there is a motion i’d like to speak to it when it appears
[2008/03/30 12:34] Beathan Vale: Pat — there is a proposal — just not moved yet
[2008/03/30 12:34] You: And I may have a new motion to propose after that, smile
[2008/03/30 12:34] Beathan Vale: debate then move is the usual form
[2008/03/30 12:34] Patroklus Murakami: sorry, what is teh proposal? is there a text?
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: hang on all 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woops sorry
[2008/03/30 12:35] Beathan Vale: “Pending By elections, the size of the RA shall be temporarily reduced to 5” – a Cosntitional amendment
[2008/03/30 12:35] Beathan Vale: very short and clear
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: Beathan has made a suggestion in the 24 March transcript. It has not yet been made as a fomal motion
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: so 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:35] Patroklus Murakami: ok i’d like to speak against that
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: Gwyn has the floor
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’ll let Pat speak first.
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for one reason — if there’s no proposal,
[2008/03/30 12:36] You: then let’s get Pat’s take – noting, 2 minutes each I think
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: Gwyn — you are the person I want to hear from
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC should not talk about things that aren’t proposed
[2008/03/30 12:36] You: guys
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: depending on what you say, I may withdraw the proposal and save time
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: I have posted my proposal
[2008/03/30 12:36] You: GL and PM please elect to speak – or not – OK?
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: rather — I just stated it here
[2008/03/30 12:36] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to speak
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat first please.
[2008/03/30 12:37] You: go for it
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: There are two main problems with this proposal. It does not achieve what it sets out to, and what it sets out to do is illegal in any case 🙂 This sets out to pretend that the two seats won by the CSDF in the general election don’t exist because the CSDF is choosing not to occupy them.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: We might call it the ‘Zimbabwe proposal’ since it aims to disenfranchise part of the electorate through government dictat.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: This is not permissible in a democracy. Boycotting a parliament is a perfectly legitimate tactic used by many groups as a protest. Sinn Fein, for example, regularly stood for elections to the House of Commons in the UK but did not take their seats because they saw the British ‘occupation’ of Northern Ireland as illegitimate.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: The UK government did not then abolish the seats because it was inconvenient. That would have been illegal. To take away these two seats is to deprive voters of representation.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: “Aah” you might say, “but the CSDF has already deprived the voters of representation by resigning and leaving the seats empty”. Well, no we haven’t. We have chosen to make a political statement by keeping the seats vacant.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: It is up to the voters, at the by-election if we stand, and in the general election to express their views on that. This assembly does not have the right to delete those seats just because it is inconvenient and meetings may be more likely to become inquorate. It also sets a dreadful precedent if you think about it carefully.
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: But, I’m afraid this proposal does not achieve it’s desired aim. The January election result cannot be ignored.
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: f you reduce the number of seats from 7 to 5 temporarily you will have to fill the seats according to the vote in January *as if there were 5 seats*. By my reckoning that gives the CSDF two seats and Simplicity, NuCARE and the DPU one each.
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: In other words, if you pass this both Beathan and MT lose their seats! I’m pretty sure that’s not what’s intended but, it is the logical outcome!
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:38] You: thanks
[2008/03/30 12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent speech 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:38] You: Gwyn?
[2008/03/30 12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The comment is but a brief one.
[2008/03/30 12:39] Beathan Vale: I am more likely to support my proposal after hearing Pat — Gwyn
[2008/03/30 12:39] Beathan Vale: and Pat is wrong as a legal and Constitutional matter
[2008/03/30 12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As most of you know, the SC has refrained from doing anything but literal interpretations of the constitution.
[2008/03/30 12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, there are really some cases where the SC cannot cross the arms and be silent…
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem here is simple. The RA has two unalienable rights:
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) it can set the # of RA members (changing the constitution)
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) it does set the dates for elections and by-elections (it’s already there)
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So,
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in *theory*,
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nothing prevents the RA to set the number of members to “1”
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (or even zero)
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the date for the next elections to 2567.
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In order to *prevent* that from happening,
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC has a mandate to interpret the law being passed according to the founding documents
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… nothing has been proposed… so discussions are fine,
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BUT…
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: an attempt to suddenly change the election rules before the by-elections, or suddenly reducing the number of members of the RA *after* people have voted
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is probably out of bounds, and will have to be considered by the SC
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note —
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the citizens vote for factions, and factions get seats
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessarily ‘people’
[2008/03/30 12:42] You: me notes the time but thinks this important – just let us know when done please.
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all mostly 😉
[2008/03/30 12:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we need seven seats i think
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We HAVE 7 seats.
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What we do is just 5 people for 7 seats 😉
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that’s all — thank you Mr. LRA
[2008/03/30 12:43] You: 🙂 we will talk more abut seats soon I think
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: and thank you
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: so
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: no motion on the table. May I make one?
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: I see no objections
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: I have reviewed the constitution carefully and note a dozen or so references to quorum. Most say “2/33rds” or “majority” without any reference to seated reps versus total possible seats. …
[2008/03/30 12:45] You: One or two say “seats”. …
[2008/03/30 12:45] You: Proper legislative interpretation maixims guide us always to give effect to word distinctions. SO I conclude that where the Constitution says “seats” it means it – and where it does not, it is most likely to mean something different.
[2008/03/30 12:45] You: .. 🙂 …
[2008/03/30 12:45] MT Lundquist: makes sense
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: Also, the constitution permits the RA to set its own operating procedures, so long as they do not violate the constitution. And a rule by the RA to specify that all majority and supermajority votes shall be calculated based on the number of members then seated – except in those cases where the Constitution specifies seats -does not violate that Constitution
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: .. in my view, smile
[2008/03/30 12:46] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/03/30 12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, very good point 😉
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: .. and it would solve Beathan’s issue about having a quorum risk, until the elections are over ..
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: so I so move.
[2008/03/30 12:46] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: Discussion?
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: we’re a bit over time in the aggregate, but not much
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: the practical effect: 2/3rds of 5, and 2/3rs of the RA, will be 4, until the new members are seated.
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: and we won’t need all 5 for quorum, smile
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: are you ready for a vote?
[2008/03/30 12:48] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 12:48] You: Members please note their votes – I vote aye
[2008/03/30 12:48] Sonja Strom: Although I don’t have so strong a feeling about this as Patroklus, I do agree with him. My view is, the RA has seven seats, and what we need is to hold the by-elections to fill the 2 empty ones. Simply that.
[2008/03/30 12:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (actually: “A vote in the RA is a simple majority vote of representative seats. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 vote.”)
[2008/03/30 12:48] Sonja Strom: My vote is nay.
[2008/03/30 12:48] You: Let’s hold the vote
[2008/03/30 12:48] You: oh – never mind 🙂 sonja WAS ready to vote
[2008/03/30 12:49] You: sorry 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:49] Beathan Vale: what are we voting on?
[2008/03/30 12:49] Sonja Strom: Yes, sorry, I was typing a discussion comment.
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: OK, I choose to cancel the vote as having been prematurely started by me 🙂 if no-one objects
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: asking again: is there further comment?
[2008/03/30 12:50] Beathan Vale: on my 5 RA?
[2008/03/30 12:50] Jamie Palisades notes Gwyn’s change of view
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: no, BV, it’s not a motion
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: I made a motion
[2008/03/30 12:51] Beathan Vale: Based on Gwyn’s comments and FR’s post — and despite Pat’s partisan and legally incorrect speech, I withdraw my proposal
[2008/03/30 12:51] You: I object to the characterization of Pat, here, but note the proposal’s off the table
[2008/03/30 12:51] You: now
[2008/03/30 12:52] You: we need to dispose of my motion pls 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:52] You: should l restate it?
[2008/03/30 12:52] MT Lundquist: please
[2008/03/30 12:52] MT Lundquist: for clarity
[2008/03/30 12:54] You: I moved that the RA adopt a rule that all majority and supermajority votes – and let’s be clear and say meeting quorum also – shall be calculated based on the number of members then seated – except in those cases where the Constitution specifies seats. …
[2008/03/30 12:54] You: and it was seconded .. and it is up for discussion
[2008/03/30 12:54] You: anyone?
[2008/03/30 12:54] Beathan Vale: worth a shot — but I don’t know that this overcomes the problems raised by the SC
[2008/03/30 12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the Constitution does not define a quorum; only the old procedures of the RA stated “A quorum for all RA business is equal to a minimum of 50%+1 members in attendance.” which does not relate to seats)
[2008/03/30 12:55] Sonja Strom: To me this seems like another way of stating Beathan’s proposal.
[2008/03/30 12:55] Beathan Vale: let’s pass it — use it for this RA meeting — and send the SC a test case — based on, say, the Green Sims bill
[2008/03/30 12:55] You: How the SC welcomes our attempts to stay open for business – or does not welcome them – is a topic for their meeting at 4 am tomorrow 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, true
[2008/03/30 12:56] MT Lundquist: the difference being its already law sonja i think
[2008/03/30 12:56] Sonja Strom: If it is already law, then do we need to consider it?
[2008/03/30 12:56] You: I will speak in favor then
[2008/03/30 12:57] You: I think RA members who resign should not, by doing so, be capable of prevent the RA from doing business. Even accidentally. It’s my view that the Constitution does not wish, or require, the RA to stop dead when a faction leaves 🙂 And I attribute NO intent to anyone – just noting the practical effects.
[2008/03/30 12:57] You: Done. Anyone else, or are we ready to vote?
[2008/03/30 12:57] Beathan Vale: Hear Hear
[2008/03/30 12:57] MT Lundquist: ready
[2008/03/30 12:57] Beathan Vale: so moved
[2008/03/30 12:58] Jamie Palisades looks around (heh – more carefully this time) – I see no type-y motions
[2008/03/30 12:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/03/30 12:58] You: OK then: members state your votes please
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: I can’t second my own motion
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: wait — no second on vote
[2008/03/30 12:58] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: kk
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 12:58] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/03/30 12:58] You: no need, was moved and seconded earlier 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:59] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 12:59] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 12:59] You: I vote aye – and declare it passed by 4-1-0.
[2008/03/30 12:59] You: I note this is not a Constitutional amendment.
[2008/03/30 12:59] MT Lundquist: 🙂
===
[2008/03/30 12:59] You: and we move on to item 3
[2008/03/30 13:00] You: item 3 – election rules
[2008/03/30 13:00] You: I note that most o these items *would* be constitutional amendments
[2008/03/30 13:00] You: Prin, item 3a was yours? Minimum faction size?
[2008/03/30 13:01] ThePrincess Parisi: well this is something that i have talked with all RA members about so i am certain you all know
[2008/03/30 13:01] Beathan Vale: I want to address a global issue raised by Gwyn first
[2008/03/30 13:01] ThePrincess Parisi: and actually it wasnt even me first to tell it…..
[2008/03/30 13:02] You: Prin has the floor
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: m
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: Can I assume you are done, Prin?
[2008/03/30 13:03] Alexicon Kurka: I think she crashed
[2008/03/30 13:03] MT Lundquist: she crashed
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: if so Beathan’s up
[2008/03/30 13:03] Beathan Vale: tough day for crashing
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: ‘global issue’?
[2008/03/30 13:04] Beathan Vale: Gwyn indicates that there would be a “founding documents” problem if the RA changed the election rules prior to this election
[2008/03/30 13:04] MT Lundquist: i have her in voice
[2008/03/30 13:04] Beathan Vale: I don’t see it
[2008/03/30 13:04] You: see what?
[2008/03/30 13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “would” as in “possibly” — it’s a philosophical question, Beathan, not a constitutional one.
[2008/03/30 13:04] MT Lundquist: that there has been a dramatic increase in size since the first faction creation size of 3
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: the elections are called by the RA, and administered by the SC — based on the then-current election rules
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: thus, there is should be no problem with an election rule change
[2008/03/30 13:05] MT Lundquist: therefore the proposal is to have 5 min members of a faction
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: as long as elections are held — as required by the founding documents — there should be no founding documents problem based on the details of “election rules”
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: that is all
[2008/03/30 13:06] Beathan Vale: That said — I am not sure I support changing faction size or creation rules at this time
[2008/03/30 13:06] You: I have myself and Pat in queue
[2008/03/30 13:06] Beathan Vale: I think it is addressing a speculative problem about how (rumor has it) the CSDF will manipulate the election
[2008/03/30 13:06] You: others wish to speak?
[2008/03/30 13:07] You: done BV?
[2008/03/30 13:07] You: had your ‘two minutes” 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:07] Beathan Vale: Let’s give the CSDF a chance to behave appropriately before we assume they will do wrong
[2008/03/30 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (just on 3b, Jamie)
[2008/03/30 13:07] Beathan Vale: 😉
[2008/03/30 13:07] Beathan Vale: now that is really all
[2008/03/30 13:07] You: Pat? anything on this item? (You having given me notice)
[2008/03/30 13:07] Sonja Strom: I would like to speak about it, Jamie.
[2008/03/30 13:08] Sonja Strom: After the CSDF.
[2008/03/30 13:08] Patroklus Murakami: hmmm, i only wanted to speak on 2
[2008/03/30 13:08] You: OK thx. Sonja?
[2008/03/30 13:09] Sonja Strom: OK, the DPU has considered this, and we think the party size for participation in elections should reflect 10% of the total population, as a ratio that would increase if the CDS grows.
[2008/03/30 13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/03/30 13:09] You: how diff from current rule? No minimum?
[2008/03/30 13:09] MT Lundquist nods
[2008/03/30 13:10] You: ?
[2008/03/30 13:10] Sonja Strom: There is some disagreement in the DPU about whether this is how things used to be or not – some say it was once that way, others say it was only a consideration in the past.
[2008/03/30 13:11] Sonja Strom: I believe with the current size of the CDS, it would require 4 members per party to participate in the upcoming by-election.
[2008/03/30 13:11] You: Any more, Sonja?
[2008/03/30 13:11] Sonja Strom: Done, thanks!
[2008/03/30 13:11] Sonja Strom: wb ThePrincess 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:12] You: is that a motion that you wish to make at this time, Sonja? I believe it would pass even the, um, most hostile possible SC view on voting numbers, if unaninimous here.
[2008/03/30 13:12] ThePrincess Parisi: ty lost interenet
[2008/03/30 13:12] MT Lundquist: i support sonjas view
[2008/03/30 13:12] Sonja Strom: I would like to hear what ThePrincess wanted to say to us.
[2008/03/30 13:12] You: MT maybe you could send Prin the last few minutes of chat?
[2008/03/30 13:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know what happened.. but the pop has grown
[2008/03/30 13:12] ThePrincess Parisi: and the size of a faction hasnt
[2008/03/30 13:12] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:13] ThePrincess Parisi: to start.. basically .. and with elimination off the slates
[2008/03/30 13:13] ThePrincess Parisi: then it is more imoportant to have a larger faction size to start with
[2008/03/30 13:13] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/03/30 13:13] You: And Sonja’s faction is suggesting a rule for increasing it – and you get your 2 minutes now 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ns iy esd and it was SP’s idea
[2008/03/30 13:14] You: I am hearing no more comments. I would vote for the plan I Sonja described if it were moved and seconded now.
[2008/03/30 13:14] ThePrincess Parisi: it was 10 percent when it was made i think
[2008/03/30 13:14] You: but it isn’t 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:14] MT Lundquist: move sonjas proposal
[2008/03/30 13:14] You: that’s what she proposed, yes
[2008/03/30 13:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but they didnt think of growth so we are just verifying what the founders wanted
[2008/03/30 13:14] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/03/30 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: third
[2008/03/30 13:15] You: well there you go
[2008/03/30 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* for a clarification on Sonja’s words
[2008/03/30 13:15] Patroklus Murakami: hmm, no not really
[2008/03/30 13:15] Patroklus Murakami: point of information mr chairman
[2008/03/30 13:15] Beathan Vale: I think we should specify that we round down
[2008/03/30 13:15] You: Let’s do discussion – Gwyn and then Pat
[2008/03/30 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2008/03/30 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: oh me too round down
[2008/03/30 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “I believe with the current size of the CDS, it would require 4 members per party to participate in the upcoming by-election.”
[2008/03/30 13:16] Beathan Vale: I think it is more like 6-7
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Partys have two ways of being ‘counted’,
[2008/03/30 13:16] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that is true
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one is the number of total members,
[2008/03/30 13:16] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other is the number of candidates for election (“the list”)
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which of those two limits is the RA voting to change now?
[2008/03/30 13:16] Beathan Vale: members
[2008/03/30 13:16] ThePrincess Parisi: mmmmmm.. gwen
[2008/03/30 13:16] You: Gwyn has the floor
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was just the question, nothing more 🙂 )
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she asked a question
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: Done posing your Q?
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well gwyneth i think we should do two as well as one
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ LRA
[2008/03/30 13:17] Beathan Vale: members — from 3 to 10% of pop
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt even think of that
[2008/03/30 13:17] Sonja Strom: I would like to make a motion.
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: OK, Sonja & MT – you suggested and moved that 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Beathan
[2008/03/30 13:17] Sonja Strom:
“The minimum size requirement for a party to participate in RA elections shall be 10% of the total CDS population, rounded down.”
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: Sonja, is it an amendment to the current motion?
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe tqo two candidates and then the ten percent
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: I will take it that way, hmn?
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Sonja 🙂 it’s clear now.
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and what about candidates gwyn is right we need to clarify that
[2008/03/30 13:17] Cindy Ecksol still raising hand
[2008/03/30 13:18] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie see cindy
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: can we make that “faction” to use the constitutional term?
[2008/03/30 13:18] Beathan Vale: I don’t think we need to do anything with number of candidates right now
[2008/03/30 13:18] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: Yes – I have Pat then Cindy then others – but if the motion is seconded, it’s that amendment to which we all must speak
[2008/03/30 13:18] Sonja Strom: Is a party a faction before an election?
[2008/03/30 13:18] Beathan Vale: party=faction
[2008/03/30 13:18] Sonja Strom: OK
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: yup
[2008/03/30 13:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: OK do we have a second?
[2008/03/30 13:19] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/03/30 13:19] Beathan Vale: wait — Cindy
[2008/03/30 13:19] You: OK then
[2008/03/30 13:19] You: psst
[2008/03/30 13:19] Sonja Strom: My RL understanding of a faction is that it is a party in Parliament.
[2008/03/30 13:19] You: Pat first then Cindy – if Pat has more
[2008/03/30 13:19] Patroklus Murakami: the reason for having a faction size of 3 had nothing to do with population size
[2008/03/30 13:19] Patroklus Murakami: it was the minimum size for a group set by Linden Lab
[2008/03/30 13:19] Patroklus Murakami: and the rules stated that you needed to form a group to have a faction
[2008/03/30 13:20] ThePrincess Parisi: then its two now
[2008/03/30 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think raising the bar is such a good idea
[2008/03/30 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: it doesn’t affect us but…. some of the other factions would have had to disband if this rule had been in force for the last year 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:20] Sonja Strom: I would like to hear from Cindy too.
[2008/03/30 13:21] You: Pat, if that’s your two minutes, I have Cindy, me, and – well – we’ll see.
[2008/03/30 13:21] Patroklus Murakami: so, ‘look before you leap’ 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:21] You: Cindy? thx for your patience
[2008/03/30 13:21] Cindy Ecksol: ok, most democracies have a process for putting a candidate from a “new” party on the ballot that involves getting a certain number of signatures, usually based on a percentage of population from the voting district affected
[2008/03/30 13:22] Cindy Ecksol: there usually is no requirement for “party size” and I think the discussion here substantiates the idea that party size was simply a “code limitation” and not one that had any necessary basis in democratic principles
[2008/03/30 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: so what I would propose it that if you want to set a number for “people” in a party, the number you set should be the number of candidates standing for election. My feeling is that each party should post at least the same number of candidates required to fill a majority of the seats in the RA
[2008/03/30 13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: that makes a lot more sense than requiring a certain number of people in the party, gets us out of the business of claiming manipulation of the party lists and so on.
[2008/03/30 13:24] You: time? finished?
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: and it also resolves the problem that we had in the last election where a party won more seats than it had posted candidates for
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I’m done now
[2008/03/30 13:24] ThePrincess Parisi: good point cindy we can do both i think
[2008/03/30 13:24] You: Thanks – intelligent and helpful idea. But actually a completely different action – worth its own thought – different from the motion on the table. I’m in queue next. My own view is that I fear small factions being created purely to game or grief the system – at some future time – and so favor Sonja’s proposal as it is now moved, seconded and amended here.
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: excuse me, but I don’t think we need to do both that’s my point
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: SO I guess I am agreeing with Prin
[2008/03/30 13:25] ThePrincess Parisi: hmm.. well
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: is there further disvussion? Here’s why I ask: an agenda note – we are behind. That’s OK – but any member can move to close debate and if they do, and there are objections, I will call for an immediate RA vote to close the discussion. Only way to keep to a schedule.
[2008/03/30 13:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote
[2008/03/30 13:25] Beathan Vale: Cindy — 1. we are discussing, as part od election reform, a move to direct election of individual candidates — possibly without faction affiliation; 2. we vote for factions, not persons, so it should not matter if a factgion has twenty candidates or noe beofre the election
[2008/03/30 13:25] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: so: further new comments? we have an amendment on the table
[2008/03/30 13:26] Sonja Strom: I do see how bringing up Cindy’s idea is appropriate for consideration.
[2008/03/30 13:26] Cindy Ecksol: no, I do not favor moving to direct election.
[2008/03/30 13:26] Sonja Strom: However, I don’t agree with her proposal for a couple of reasons.
[2008/03/30 13:26] Cindy Ecksol: but I think it is important that people know when they vote for the faction who is likely to fill the seats and can indicate their preferences
[2008/03/30 13:26] You: Sigh, smile – SOnja – hers is NOT onthe table just yet – can we discuss it after handling the current one?
[2008/03/30 13:27] Sonja Strom: This is getting off-topic a bit, yes.
[2008/03/30 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: sorry!
[2008/03/30 13:27] Beathan Vale: ok — Sonja — can you accept the amendments a friendly? I think they are
[2008/03/30 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: I was mostly speaking against the current proposal
[2008/03/30 13:27] Sonja Strom: What were the amenments?
[2008/03/30 13:27] You: Members are you ready to vote on Sonjs’s AMENDMENT? As she stated – but using the word ‘faction’
[2008/03/30 13:27] Sonja Strom: OK
[2008/03/30 13:27] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/03/30 13:28] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 13:28] You: Good, smile. Members please state your votes. I vote aye.
[2008/03/30 13:28] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 13:28] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 13:28] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: qye
[2008/03/30 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 13:29] Cindy Ecksol thinks oy!
[2008/03/30 13:29] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:29] You: Now we are on the main motion as amended – which pretty much is the text of the amendment. It requires a vote. I think you are ready to vote without re-hashing?
[2008/03/30 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yikes
[2008/03/30 13:29] Jamie Palisades mutters: and let’s talk more about that idea Cindy -in its own time
[2008/03/30 13:30] You: trust me guys, you need to vote now to approve the original motion as Sonja amended it
[2008/03/30 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/03/30 13:30] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/03/30 13:30] You: I suggest you are ready to vote. If no objections, I vote aye (again:P)
[2008/03/30 13:30] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 13:30] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 13:31] Jamie Palisades reaches over and twangs a mohawk
[2008/03/30 13:31] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 13:32] You: ah good. I declare it passed and will notify the SC
[2008/03/30 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:32] You: Let’s take up Cindy’s point next meeting, too
===

[2008/03/30 13:32] You: item 3b
[2008/03/30 13:32] MT Lundquist: yes i would like to discuss that
[2008/03/30 13:32] You: Several do. Let just mention this —
[2008/03/30 13:33] You: I put item 3b on the agenda just to dispose of it. So far as I know there are no proposals to cut down the RA size *for now*. Some have spoken for it as a possible future change, though. May I confirm that there;s no such plan *for now*, and we are unambiguously sticking with the constitutional calculation of 7 RA members for this term?
[2008/03/30 13:33] You: and if some one DOES want to change it NOW, let’s hear it
[2008/03/30 13:33] Beathan Vale: no — Pat had a proposal for a permanent reduction to 5
[2008/03/30 13:33] You: I have MT, and Pat
[2008/03/30 13:33] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/03/30 13:34] You: and will assume we are talking about NEXT term, then, good. Discussion: MT?
[2008/03/30 13:34] MT Lundquist: I’m happy with the existing arrangement
[2008/03/30 13:34] MT Lundquist: ie 7 seats
[2008/03/30 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/03/30 13:35] ThePrincess Parisi: per pop size.. but what about by elections has the pop changed
[2008/03/30 13:35] Moon Adamant waves silently hello to everyone present
[2008/03/30 13:35] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it when we started?
[2008/03/30 13:35] ThePrincess Parisi: idk
[2008/03/30 13:35] Beathan Vale: should be current pop at time of election
[2008/03/30 13:35] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 13:35] Patroklus Murakami: this was my proposal. but it clearly doesn’t have support yet so I’ll propose it another time
[2008/03/30 13:35] You: Well, Prin, seems to me that scheme is measure once every six months, but we can al;ways ask the SC, smile
[2008/03/30 13:36] You: MT is done? Then Patroklus has the floor
[2008/03/30 13:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i see
[2008/03/30 13:36] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve said my piece
[2008/03/30 13:36] You: OK, I note no motion and no immediate plans for one. I suggest we move on – for now.
[2008/03/30 13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds the LRA that I asked to talk on 3b… 😉
[2008/03/30 13:37] You: Oh yes, but thought I heard you pass, sorry, please do – noting no active motion
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wished to remind that: “there shall be a special election to fill, for the remainder of the term, the seats left vacant.”
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the by-election is just for 2 seats, since 2 seats were left vacant.
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No more and no less 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all — thank you
[2008/03/30 13:38] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:38] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gwyniieee
===
[2008/03/30 13:38] You: item 4
[2008/03/30 13:38] You: date for that election
[2008/03/30 13:39] Beathan Vale: Gwynn — what is the soonest possible?
[2008/03/30 13:39] You: as I recall one must have 15 days for candidacy, then 7 days to run it, no?
[2008/03/30 13:39] You: G?
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: two weeks campaigning starting immediately after this meeting, one week voting, unless the RA changes the rules
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Jamie
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and candidates willing to serve should email Claude asap 😉
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. today lol
[2008/03/30 13:40] You: SO you are saying that the campagining must start as soon as we leave this room? That suggests zero hours to declare candidacies
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not “must”
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but “could”
[2008/03/30 13:40] You: are you sayins that’s a constitutional requirement, dear?
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: can
[2008/03/30 13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you set the dates 😉
[2008/03/30 13:41] You: ah – “soonest” – got it
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and when does a faction have to be declared ..
[2008/03/30 13:41] Beathan Vale: we need some time for declarations — say an additional week
[2008/03/30 13:41] Beathan Vale: I need to twist some SP arms
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: there was a time nuCARE had to declare before the elecion olast time
[2008/03/30 13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan’s suggestion on the last RA meeting was rather sensible… one week ‘setup’/announcements; two weeks campaigning; one week elections
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to give that time? or no new factions this time?
[2008/03/30 13:42] You: so for example we could say: 30 March start nominating; 6 Apiril close nominations, start campaigning; 21 April voting opens?
[2008/03/30 13:42] Beathan Vale: yes — that works
[2008/03/30 13:42] You: (just an example, using Beathan’s one week)
[2008/03/30 13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees.
[2008/03/30 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: so factions have to have already been declared?
[2008/03/30 13:42] You: is a week good for everyone?
[2008/03/30 13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh no, Princess — they could do until the day the campaigning start
[2008/03/30 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we had to declare prior to the election a few weeks last time in the election
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: well that is different than a regular election
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i am certain
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: why is this different
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nuCARE had to be together well before the start of campaigning
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a deadline
[2008/03/30 13:43] Beathan Vale: let’s say three days for new factions; 7 days for candidates, 2 week campaign, 1 week vote
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: no we cant say
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it is in the constitution
[2008/03/30 13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “No later than 15 days prior to the opening of the polls, faction members will report to the SC Dean their willingness or unwillingness to serve in the RA.”
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i know it is , cos we had to stick to that to get ourselves to the
[2008/03/30 13:43] You: faction get tested (for existence and eligibility) on the same day as nominations close and campaigning opens, I think
[2008/03/30 13:44] ThePrincess Parisi: but this is about making a faction
[2008/03/30 13:44] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to make sure
[2008/03/30 13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “If there are no declared candidates fifteen (15) days before and election, that faction will be considered a non-election faction and not be placed on the ballot for that term.”
[2008/03/30 13:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a timeline much prior to reporting that
[2008/03/30 13:44] You: I see Cindy, then I have a Q for Gwyneth
[2008/03/30 13:44] You: Cindy?
[2008/03/30 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: seems to me that from what Gwyn has quoted all a faction has to do to “declare” is tell the RA 15 days before elections. I suppose with the new rule about faction size, the SC will also have to certify any previously unknown factions, but that looks like the rule…
[2008/03/30 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: well there might be more than what she has quoted cin
[2008/03/30 13:45] Patroklus Murakami: and the current factions cindy 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: any faction (new or old) that does not talk to the RA will not be certified.
[2008/03/30 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we had to declare to sudane with nuCARE
[2008/03/30 13:46] Cindy Ecksol: I’m sorry — to the SC, not the RA. Good point pat…
[2008/03/30 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: way prior to the day of the campaign
[2008/03/30 13:46] Cindy Ecksol: 15 days
[2008/03/30 13:46] You: thanks
[2008/03/30 13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn will answer to Princess’ question once Jamie asks the question to me — so that we’re not getting hopelessly out of order here 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i think this needs to be clarified before this goes on
[2008/03/30 13:47] You: indeed, and thanks – and after Gwyn’s short answer I have a procedural issue. Gwyn?
[2008/03/30 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry but im sure we just did this three months ago
[2008/03/30 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: can i not talk? oops
[2008/03/30 13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:48] You: not just yet 🙂 Gwyn’s turn
[2008/03/30 13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn is confused about the order — Jamie, should I answer Princess first; answer your (unasked) question first; or shut up and wait for Princess to finish?
[2008/03/30 13:48] You: ha ha – answer the question previously asked please – or decline, of course
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… well,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess has a point actually.
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the *regular* elections,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BEFORE all the process starts,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have the “census”.
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Estimating how many citizens there are in the CDS,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because this will also define how many seats will be on the RA,
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and… how many candidates each faction needs to present
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… on the *regular* elections,
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a bit before the campaigning starts,
[2008/03/30 13:50] You: so the census date is its own test, prior to faction nominations opening?
[2008/03/30 13:50] You: and who sets THAT date?
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly, Jamie
[2008/03/30 13:50] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, it’s fixed… mmmh
[2008/03/30 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂 i had a point.
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But in the case of the by-elections,
[2008/03/30 13:51] Moon Adamant: afk
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re just filling in a fixed amount of seats
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie.
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you don’t need to define a “full list”
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no new census is needed â€” the number of members of the RA *overall* will not grow or diminished
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *diminsh
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so as long as “any” faction which was valid at the beginning of term
[2008/03/30 13:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks “Wow! then anyone could declare themselves a new faction and hop into the pool if it’s a by election!”
[2008/03/30 13:52] MT Lundquist raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:52] You: OK, answered then, I think, and thank you …
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: presents enough candidates….
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no no Cindy
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t read it that way 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: may i post something please
[2008/03/30 13:52] Cindy Ecksol: sorry, put that up before you finished….
[2008/03/30 13:52] Cindy Ecksol: I understand
[2008/03/30 13:52] You: Gwyn has floor – then rule issue- then Prin
[2008/03/30 13:52] You: done G?
[2008/03/30 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i have found the chat
[2008/03/30 13:53] ThePrincess Parisi: text i mean
[2008/03/30 13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was basically the explanation why for the regular elections there is a previous “validation” on the factions…
[2008/03/30 13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, yes, that’s all, Mr. LRA 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:53] You: Thanks – that’s helpful – and may well be what Prin was remembering as an “earlier deadline”. Running out of time on this item. Beathan’s new rules want me to explicitly immediately ask for an extension of time – or we quit this item, or vote immediately. .. This overrides the current debate as a procedural requirement under the rules you lot passed last meeting 🙂 … Could we have a motion to set the timelines I specified (30 March / 6 April / 21 April) — OR some other dates AS A MOTION — OR shall we let this item fail — OR shall we extend debate? RA members only on that first, please.
[2008/03/30 13:53] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:53] You: so
[2008/03/30 13:54] You: RA members – I have no motion – extend debate? or not?
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: we have some info i need to give first so yes
[2008/03/30 13:54] You: any objections from other RAs?
[2008/03/30 13:54] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/03/30 13:54] You: Noting this will eat the rest of our time today?
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: well we can start elections now i dont care
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: is that it
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: im confused
[2008/03/30 13:54] Jamie Palisades looks around …
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i am ok with voting on this now
[2008/03/30 13:55] You: 🙂 then listen to the nice chairman please
[2008/03/30 13:55] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:55] You: No vote ’cause no motion … time extended … Prin first then Cindy 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: No later than 15 days prior to the opening of the polls, faction members will report to the SC Dean their willingness or unwillingness to serve in the RA. If there are no declared candidates fifteen (15) days before and election, that faction will be considered a non-election faction and not be placed on the ballot for that term. Based on the ranking form the general election, the faction members to be elected to the RA will selected based on the descending order of the number of points received based on the Borda-count of the rankings. The members will be selected until all available seats for the party are filled. If a member retires from the RA, a member with the next highest ranking in the same faction is takes a seat on the RA.
[2008/03/30 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: thats all i had
[2008/03/30 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy
[2008/03/30 13:56] You: Yup. Cindy?
[2008/03/30 13:56] Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to clarify: gwyn, are you saying that for the by election only parties already certified for the main election are eligible? no new parties for the by election?
[2008/03/30 13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *theoretically*, Cindy, yes, that’s what it is
[2008/03/30 13:56] Cindy Ecksol: that makes TREMENDOUS sense…
[2008/03/30 13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is “a special election for X vacant seats”
[2008/03/30 13:57] ThePrincess Parisi: then lets vote
[2008/03/30 13:57] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you ladies
[2008/03/30 13:57] ThePrincess Parisi: you are so smart.. oh I’m out of order
[2008/03/30 13:57] Beathan Vale: so moved
[2008/03/30 13:58] You: OK we have NO timing motion for the election. I find that embarrassing. Will someone move some dates please. One set that has been suggested was solicit candidates from factions 30 March; close those and start campaigning 6 April; start balloting 21 April.
[2008/03/30 13:58] You: Move what, BV? 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we commence now
[2008/03/30 13:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i love a campaign
[2008/03/30 13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:58] Beathan Vale: the last text you posted as clarified (theoretically) by Gwyn
[2008/03/30 13:58] Jamie Palisades refrains, carefully, from comment
[2008/03/30 13:58] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:59] You: got it. BV moves that calendar, and acknolwedging Gwyn’s comments about eligible factions.
[2008/03/30 13:59] You: Can I take Prin’s motion as a second?
[2008/03/30 13:59] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/03/30 13:59] You: Are you ready to vote?
[2008/03/30 13:59] Beathan Vale: rdy
[2008/03/30 14:00] You: Members please state your vote. I vote aye.
[2008/03/30 14:00] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 14:00] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 14:00] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 14:00] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 14:00] ThePrincess Parisi: yes indeedy
[2008/03/30 14:00] You: 🙂 done and I will notify the SC
[2008/03/30 14:00] You: somehow I feel they may know
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: …
[2008/03/30 14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
====
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: Agenda. It is 2 pm SLT.
[2008/03/30 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: where is my nuCARE hat
[2008/03/30 14:01] Beathan Vale: election committee meeting to follow
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: Who among the RA must leave?
[2008/03/30 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i never leave
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: do we quit RA for today?
[2008/03/30 14:01] Beathan Vale: it’s true — she is always on
[2008/03/30 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: mt needs to go night night
[2008/03/30 14:01] Beathan Vale: I think she must take some wild stimulants
[2008/03/30 14:01] MT Lundquist: yes i need to sleep sorry
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: Yuo *must* stop throwing me those straight lines, Prin dear
[2008/03/30 14:02] Alexicon Kurka: I have to leave so I request that we have some minutes if there are any questions for me from the RA
[2008/03/30 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: coffee with mayan chockolate
[2008/03/30 14:02] You: OK I will confer with members – on the Forum – about these agenda items we keep shorting – and offer our apologies to Alexicon for not getting to his report today
[2008/03/30 14:02] Beathan Vale: ahh — the euphemistic “Mayan Chocolate”
[2008/03/30 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: like MINE
[2008/03/30 14:02] Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
[2008/03/30 14:02] You: Is someone moving to adjourn for the day?
[2008/03/30 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: its a REAL bill jamie
[2008/03/30 14:03] MT Lundquist: i move
[2008/03/30 14:03] You: other wise on we go, smile
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: I want to have a brief public discussion
[2008/03/30 14:03] Alexicon Kurka: I am glad the RA recovered and functions optimal again.
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: no i wanna go on can we with four
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: prior to adjournment
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you Alexicon
[2008/03/30 14:03] You: Prin, e can unil somene calls uorum, mile
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: just so that we don’t have a meeting without that chance
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: if no one wants to talk, so be it
[2008/03/30 14:03] You: MT have made a motion to adjounr
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he has to go
[2008/03/30 14:04] You: Immediate vote required then, I think –
[2008/03/30 14:04] Beathan Vale: no further business for vote — just discussion — let’s stay without MT for sy 10 min
[2008/03/30 14:04] Beathan Vale: nay
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/03/30 14:04] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] You: members please indicate your vote (whether to adjourn)
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] You: that’s three 🙂
[2008/03/30 14:04] Beathan Vale: OK
[2008/03/30 14:04] MT Lundquist: ok bye all
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: night night
[2008/03/30 14:04] MT Lundquist: sorry i have to go
[2008/03/30 14:05] You: I abstain, and we are adjourned 3-1-1 – and those who wish shoudl stick around for Beathan’s chat about – um – elections
[2008/03/30 14:05] Beathan Vale: election committee to follow — and any citizens who want to harrass me as proxy for the RA can do so
[2008/03/30 14:05] You: NP, it;s late, thank you MT
[2008/03/30 14:05] ThePrincess Parisi: he gets up early
[2008/03/30 14:05] Alexicon Kurka: Bye everybody
[2008/03/30 14:05] You: we are adjoruned, thank you all
[2008/03/30 14:05] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have the sign in the CN form updated
[2008/03/30 14:06] You: and thanks Alexicon

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 06, 2008

Agenda

1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 12h00 – 12h15)

1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes. (Confirm no need for Commission reports.)
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

2. Report from Chancellor (15 mins.: 12h15 – 12h30)
3. Proposed Celebrating our Volunteers Bill (10 mins.: 12h30-12h40)
4. Proposed Greener Sims Bill (10 mins.: 12h40-12h50)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1632

5. Fourth CDS Sim Planning (25 mins.: 12h50-13h15)
5a. Report from New Guild, reactions/questions to RA resolutions on sim plan, location (M Adamant)
5b. Guild expectations regarding fourth sim timing (M Adamant)
5c. RA expectations & any financial considerations regarding fourth sim timing
5d. Relationship (if any) between fourth sim and ‘private development’ proposal below

NEW ITEMS

7. Private Development Proposal (discussion only) (25 mins.: 13h15 – 13:40)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721

8. Note upcoming expected legislation (5 mins.: 13h40 – 13h45)
8a. Private Development/Sim contracting?
— reference: See above
8b. New Guild charter amendments?
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1736
8c. Parliamentarian/recorder?
8d. LRA selection?
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
8e. Conflict of Interest?
8f. Public Referenda?
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1715#p10506
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667#p10507
8f. Other?

9. Other?
10. Open Discussion (10 mins. 13h45-14h00)
Adjournment: 14h00
Summary

06 April 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
===
[12:10] Called to order.
[12:11] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified.
[12;19] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[12:21] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[12:22] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
— Decided on 09h00 SLT on Saturday, starting 12 April
[12:27] 1f – Consent agenda.
No items.
[12:28] 2 – Chancellor report.
Postponed until next meeting.
[12:28] 3 – Celebrating Our Volunteers Bill.
— Motion stated at [12:31]. (See notecard text, copied to end of transcript).
—- Amendment stated at [12:37]. Amendment re-stated at [12:38]. Accepted as friendly amendment without objection at [12:38].
— Motion (as amended) adopted 5-0-0 at [12:42] [12:42] 4 – Greener Sims bill.
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until after by-elections.
[12:49] 5 – Fourth sim planning.
Delayed until later in meeting to permit Guild representative to attend.
[12:53] 6.25 – Commerce Commission.
MT Lundquist made report. Draft legislation expected by next RA meeting. (Notecard text with draft bill was read into the record at [12:56].)
[13:10] 5 – Fourth sim planning – resumed.
Dialogue and confirmation about RA parameters to Guild for new sim.
[13:35] 6.5 – Conflict of interest inquiry
[13:46] 7 – Private Development laws
(See URIs in agenda: )
— Motion stated at [13:47]. Motion declined 0-5-0 at [14:02].
[14:04] Announcements from PIO: Dreams Fair and SL5B
[14:05] Meeting extended.
[14:07] 8 – Proposed/expected future legislation noted:
— 8a Private Development [14:08] — 8b Guild charter changes [14:08] — 8c RA parliamentarian, recorder [14:12] — 8d LRA succession [14:13] — 8[x] Sustainability [14:029
— 8e Conflicts of Interest legislation [14:33] — 8f Public referenda [14:35] — 8g Tour vehicle remibursement [14:42] [14:45] 10 – Open discussion
[14:55] Adjourned.
Transcript

====
Transcript of 6 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “===” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/04/06 12:05] Teleport completed from
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alpine+Meadow/182/208/54
[2008/04/06 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: and its the govts right to take it way if they want commercial property
[2008/04/06 12:05] Justice Soothsayer: hi Jamie
[2008/04/06 12:05] MT Lundquist: hi jamie
[2008/04/06 12:05] You: ah thanks for the TP Beathan
[2008/04/06 12:05] You: and apologies for being – hm – 3 minutes late
[2008/04/06 12:06] You: please bear with me while we get arranged –
[2008/04/06 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the govt can take your land if you dont use it commericially
[2008/04/06 12:06] Danton Sideways: if you make that legislation, yes
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: its already in the legistaltion sorry
[2008/04/06 12:07] MT Lundquist gave you Commerce Commision Recommendations.
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: way before us
[2008/04/06 12:07] Danton Sideways: what if i use it commercially but fail to make any money?
[2008/04/06 12:07] You: MT, I just got your notecard, thanks
[2008/04/06 12:07] You: maybe post that to forums also?
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: then if you have traffic it might be ok
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: depends how commerical is defined
[2008/04/06 12:07] Danton Sideways: how about a storefront association, that should be in commercial zoning
[2008/04/06 12:07] You: and to all present, let me ping SOnja before we start – with only 5 members seated I like to try and get ecveryone if we can
[2008/04/06 12:08] Beathan Vale: I think policing profits would be a nightmare — we run on appearance
[2008/04/06 12:08] You: oo 🙂 events overtook me
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: a storefront associaion what do you mean?
[2008/04/06 12:08] You: Hi Sonja, thx
[2008/04/06 12:08] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja is here
[2008/04/06 12:08] Beathan Vale: further, commercial use could be nonprofit, informational, etc.
[2008/04/06 12:08] Sonja Strom: I assent to being recorded 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:08] Danton Sideways: non-profit association with a storefront office
[2008/04/06 12:08] MT Lundquist: hi sonja
[2008/04/06 12:08] Beathan Vale: yep
[2008/04/06 12:08] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/06 12:08] You: Ladies and gentlemen: are we ready to begin? Can that chat wait, as all are present?
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: it depends if it meetis the definition of commercial danton
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: that might be ok
[2008/04/06 12:09] Danton Sideways: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:09] You: ??
[2008/04/06 12:09] You: not hearing any objection to starting the meeting …
[2008/04/06 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: go on
====
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: Thx, we’re in session, then. Our agenda as proposed is posted here
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1749
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: we will ask for changesi in a moment
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: 1a
[2008/04/06 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but let me see it first
[2008/04/06 12:10] xThePrincess: ok but let me see it first
[2008/04/06 12:10] MT Lundquist: agree to being recorded
[2008/04/06 12:10] Beathan Vale: ditto
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: Would everyone present please assent in chat to the recording and re-posting of this session– or else just not speak 🙂 I assent
[2008/04/06 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: agree
[2008/04/06 12:10] xThePrincess: agree
[2008/04/06 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: aye
[2008/04/06 12:11] Justice Soothsayer: I assent
[2008/04/06 12:11] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/04/06 12:11] Danton Sideways: assent
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i do have something to add that is urgent though
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: i do ‘ave somethin’ t’ add that be urgent though
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Beathan, if we missed anyone, would you check for me and get them on record as assenting please?
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Understood prin – that’s up now
====
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: 1b
[2008/04/06 12:11] Beathan Vale: everyone assented
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: see the ppl who are running the election are the same ppl who caused that
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: see th’ ppl who are runnin’ th’ election are th’ same ppl who caused that
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Agenda changes 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: ‘n
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i say its unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: Gangway! i say its unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: ‘n
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Prin. 🙂 is this a proposal for an agenda change?
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: there is now no SC
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: (I suspect so)
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: thar be now no SC
[2008/04/06 12:11] Beathan Vale: TP — you are echoing
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: hang on hang on
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: so we have to not bring ti to anyone
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: so we ‘ave t’ nah brin’ ti t’ anyone
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: im a pirate
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: Hoist the Jolly Roger! im a pirate
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: Yo ho ho an’ a bottle o’ rum! sorry
[2008/04/06 12:12] You: Prin your echo-er is speaking Pirate at us – amusing, but inconvenient. Please turn it off
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: oh right im doing this to make a point
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: oh right im doin’ this t’ make a point
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: that CDS is a mans toy game
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: that CDS be a mans toy game
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: not a community
[2008/04/06 12:12] MT Lundquist: i have the commerce commission recommendations
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: nah a community
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: and the SC is a farce
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: ‘n th’ SC be a farce
[2008/04/06 12:12] You: Heh. Prin do you have a suggetsion for an added agenda item? PLEASE say WHAT it is, how long, and anything else we need to add it to the agenda.
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and what we need to do is rule the actions of the SC unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:13] xThePrincess: Land ho! ‘n wha’ we needs t’ do be rule th’ actions o’ th’ SC unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:13] xThePrincess: aye
[2008/04/06 12:13] Beathan Vale: I have confidence in the election officials and see no reason to disrupt the process
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: we have a emergency and its urgent
[2008/04/06 12:13] xThePrincess: Splice the mainbrace! we ‘ave a emergency ‘n its urgent
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: we do have an emergency
[2008/04/06 12:13] You: And I ask you to refrain from personal characterizations of another government branch. What need we do as the RA, Prin, if anything?
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the election can not go on
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:13] You: THE ONLY THING now pertinent is changing the agenda. Will you have an agenda item on this?
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: well see gywn and justice cause the need for the election
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and then they ruled on every matter
[2008/04/06 12:14] You: I note Justice is present. (Hi there, welcome)
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and gwyen sat in on the meetings with CSDF and then SC
[2008/04/06 12:14] Beathan Vale: Cindy please assent to chat publication
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and then it is now that they are running and we need to make sure that is knwon that it is unconstitutional.. but
[2008/04/06 12:14] Cindy Ecksol: I consent
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we have no SC to take it to
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: cos now the SC is running for RA
[2008/04/06 12:14] You: Prin I will ask you to finish your agenda-related comments in 60 seconds, then I have a suggestion.
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we all need to stop ……..im done
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: agenda item
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: discuss SC and its issues
[2008/04/06 12:15] You: OK. Yes or no. Do you have amotion to pass legislaton or another RA act about that issue at this meeting?
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:15] You: I understand discussion – but I know of no bill or act, YET
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: a motion to discuss and it is URGENT
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: emergency
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: the election is unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:15] You: OK then it will have to go – per our own rules – AFTER preexisting items – so that’s after 6 and before 7
[2008/04/06 12:15] Cindy Ecksol needs a beer already and the meeting hasn’t even started….
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: I don’t see Alexi here so maybe we save time today due to no Chancellor report
[2008/04/06 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: then it wont happen
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: yes, Cindy, it has 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well he wont be there
[2008/04/06 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: hes sending arria or some crap
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: OK then Prin, hush a sec. Does anyone object to a new agenda item 6-point-5 about Prin’s concern for 10 minutes?
[2008/04/06 12:16] Beathan Vale: no — add it
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: Prin that’s out of order. Cease all personal comments please.
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: no objections?
[2008/04/06 12:16] MT Lundquist: no objection
[2008/04/06 12:17] ThePrincess Parisi: in guild they said that arria was coming in place of alexicon sorry
[2008/04/06 12:17] You: OK we have a 6-and-one-half. Can we also add Beathan’s plan to report out the Commierce Commission results?
[2008/04/06 12:17] MT Lundquist: MTs
[2008/04/06 12:17] You: Rats sorry
[2008/04/06 12:17] You: to both of you
[2008/04/06 12:17] MT Lundquist: np
[2008/04/06 12:17] Beathan Vale: ? I have no plan related to the Commerce Commission
[2008/04/06 12:17] ThePrincess Parisi: MT does
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: OK to add, say, what, 10 minutes before Prin’s issue? I think THIS one is less likely to be fractious (maybe) 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:18] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i told you he had recs from the commerce commission over a weekago
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: So item 6-point-two-five for 10 mins, hmm? any objections?
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: .me smiles and waits to hear objections
[2008/04/06 12:18] Beathan Vale: no obj
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: kk
[2008/04/06 12:19] Jack Daniels Whiskey whispers: watch that third sip
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: we have an agenda – with the 2 changes noted – and we’ll handle it on the fly if Arria or Alexi show up
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: and someone pass me that whisky 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: 1c
[2008/04/06 12:19] Cindy Ecksol: me passes the bottle of Jack Daniels to Jamie
[2008/04/06 12:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan is next
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: does any non RA memebr wish to speak on items today? You get get to the heda of the line under our rules by saying so now 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sure i will
[2008/04/06 12:20] Justice Soothsayer: If you ever get to TP
[2008/04/06 12:20] Jamie Palisades looks around for type-y gestures?
[2008/04/06 12:20] Justice Soothsayer: I would like to address her comments about the election
[2008/04/06 12:20] You: RA need not so indicate 🙂 the rules assume we talk a lot already (wry smile)
[2008/04/06 12:20] You: Got it – Justice on item – hm – 6-1/2
[2008/04/06 12:20] Beathan Vale: thanks for the hooch TP
[2008/04/06 12:20] You: any others?
[2008/04/06 12:20] Cindy Ecksol: I too would like to talk about that (after Justice) if we get to it
[2008/04/06 12:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yw
[2008/04/06 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: we need it
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: hearing none
====
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:21] *Drinks* Elite Rum & Coke whispers: Courtesy of Club Elite
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: 1d
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: Routine notice – please check my posted transcripts 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: please note
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: if you have changes, comment them in 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: also note I am putting a summary of action items in separately
[2008/04/06 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we will when we get time
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: unofficial, but maybe handy for those who aren’t into deep textual analysis
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: and finally 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: I do not have posting rights to the LRA-only board, so have ‘moved’ a bunch of stuff there — if a post from me says “(Archival)’ oin the subject you can safely ignore it
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: 1e
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: I was late today, sorry – SL, but also, just getting home from church
[2008/04/06 12:23] Sonja Strom: np Jamie 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we should change the time of RA so you can go to churge
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: any chance of actio on our inforaml chats about moving this mtg either to Saturday, or an hour later on Sunday, until the new RA membes are seated?
[2008/04/06 12:23] ThePrincess Parisi: chuch
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: my problem is sleep
[2008/04/06 12:23] Sonja Strom: we could talk about that, sure.
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: i should be sleeping now
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: (i have been told other Western North America attendees have a issue too)
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: indeed
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: later makes it worse
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: sorry
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: what about Sat?
[2008/04/06 12:24] MT Lundquist: sats ok
[2008/04/06 12:24] Sonja Strom: Saturday is fine for me.
[2008/04/06 12:24] ThePrincess Parisi: saturday is ok with me
[2008/04/06 12:24] ThePrincess Parisi: then guild can and will go on all day sunday
[2008/04/06 12:24] Beathan Vale: I have a County convention to attend on the 19th
[2008/04/06 12:24] Jamie Palisades checks hi iPhone workd clock, sees 20h43 UK time
[2008/04/06 12:24] Sonja Strom: Maybe we could move to Saturdays after the 19th?
[2008/04/06 12:24] Beathan Vale: and at other times of year do volunteet work on Sats — but that is over until next fall
[2008/04/06 12:24] Sonja Strom: oh
[2008/04/06 12:24] You: hm – 19th is sat?
[2008/04/06 12:25] Beathan Vale: and, if I am a state delegate, I will have at least one other Sat commitment
[2008/04/06 12:25] ThePrincess Parisi: toga
[2008/04/06 12:25] ThePrincess Parisi: wow beathan thats awesome
[2008/04/06 12:25] Beathan Vale: but — Sats are probably generally ok
[2008/04/06 12:25] Danton Sideways: Sat SL noon in France is 9 pm – hard if you have a RL
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: hmm what about considerably earlier on sat or sun?
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: oui Danton
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: what about 3 or 4 hours earlier on sat or sun?
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: RA emmebrs?
[2008/04/06 12:25] Beathan Vale: Hi BJ — please consent to chat publication
[2008/04/06 12:25] ThePrincess Parisi: aok
[2008/04/06 12:26] Sonja Strom: fine with me 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:26] MT Lundquist: 3 or 4 earlier is ok with me
[2008/04/06 12:26] Beathan Vale: should be OK
[2008/04/06 12:26] You: I’d like to propose 9 am SLT Saturday
[2008/04/06 12:26] You: see what that trial balloon gets
[2008/04/06 12:26] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/04/06 12:26] ThePrincess Parisi: third
[2008/04/06 12:26] Jamie Palisades looks around quizzically, sees no fierce obj
[2008/04/06 12:26] MT Lundquist: fine with me
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: OK then – let’s use it next week, see how it works, and thanks
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: item over
====
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: next
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: 1f
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: consent calendar
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: I got nothing – anyone?
[2008/04/06 12:27] ThePrincess Parisi: what is it
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: completely noncontroversial stuff we can just pass without debate
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: did that for Alexi’s CN hub issue last week
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: it’s a nice device from Beathan’s rule changes
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that the elections are a farce and political griefing?
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: but I see nothing like that this week .. so …
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: can we do that one
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: as a consent item ? heh – no
[2008/04/06 12:28] Beathan Vale: not bloody likely
====
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: 🙂 hush all
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ahoy then
[2008/04/06 12:28] Cindy Ecksol laughs hysterically
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: we are on item 2
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: but got no Chancellor
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: so I will ask him to come next week, hm?
====
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: item 3
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i cussed him out ? :((
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: Celeb Our Volunteers – please note –
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: oh wow
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: one of the things about beathan’s agenda rule changes, which we adopted –
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: finally
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: is that we should not let agenda items age like fine wine 🙂 so –
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: oldest stuff gets handled first
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you ……………….
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: Prin? Can you direct us to the post with the proposed bill?
[2008/04/06 12:29] Sonja Strom: Welcome Bjerkel and Pip, please assent to being recorded if you would.
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: well i wrote it so long ago i dont know what it was
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: want to do it this week or next then?
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i think that it was something mizou wanted when she was workign on the guided tour with me
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: this week
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im typing
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: but see
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: alexicon has been asked several times for the money for the tour by me
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: OK 🙂 10 mins on agenda for it, I’m a happy presiding officer uuntil 12h40 SLT
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and i don t get the money so i dont know what to do.. but the bill…………………………….
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: ahem
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: for the volunteers
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: volunteers = in order. Tour, or personal remarks = not
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: is as writen
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what ? do you have any questions
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: yes
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: its pretty clear i think
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok jamie shoot
[2008/04/06 12:31] You: I can;t vote for it if I can;t find it 🙂 I have this thing about knowing the bills – where’s the text?
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i have notecards
[2008/04/06 12:31] You: cool -please bomb away?
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi gave you Celebrating our volunteers Bill.
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: passing them out
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: before i pass out
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: did everyone get one
[2008/04/06 12:32] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/04/06 12:32] Justice Soothsayer: yes, thanks
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: yw
[2008/04/06 12:32] You: I have a notecard with five items, essentially it would designate some coommunity real estate, create an event, and put a duty on the chancellor
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: this was submitted motns ago
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: months
[2008/04/06 12:32] You: I see little that’s controversial – is there discussion?
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: what is controversial
[2008/04/06 12:32] Cindy Ecksol thinks “Actually a little more than one month….”
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i like it i wrote than it
[2008/04/06 12:32] You: nuthin’ 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:33] ThePrincess Parisi: no it was months ago cindy
[2008/04/06 12:33] Jamie Palisades is hearing no arguments 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:33] You: ready for a vote? OK, Members please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/04/06 12:33] MT Lundquist: I’m happy with the concept
[2008/04/06 12:33] Sonja Strom: I still think we should name roads and streets after people who have contributed a lot to the CDS, but that does not have to be included in this bill.
[2008/04/06 12:33] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/06 12:33] ThePrincess Parisi: oh true! we should sonja
[2008/04/06 12:33] ThePrincess Parisi: lets add that
[2008/04/06 12:33] Sonja Strom: For some reason my feeling that way is controversial :-\
[2008/04/06 12:34] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2008/04/06 12:34] You: Sonja – can we do that as another agenda item? Wwe’re in middle of a vote — I think
[2008/04/06 12:34] ThePrincess Parisi: weeks ago i mean .. not months
[2008/04/06 12:34] Sonja Strom: Hi Arria, welcome. Please assent to being recorded.
[2008/04/06 12:34] Arria Perreault: I agree
[2008/04/06 12:34] Sonja Strom: Oh, we are voting? Sorry, I did not see that…
[2008/04/06 12:34] Danton Sideways: Can I comment?
[2008/04/06 12:34] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: sigh – to be clear, I have called for a vote on Prin’s notecard, the Celeb our Volunteers bill. I have 2 votes in favor and 3 who have not voted
[2008/04/06 12:35] Beathan Vale: I need to coment too
[2008/04/06 12:35] Beathan Vale: crashed
[2008/04/06 12:35] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: I suggest that I stop and cancel the vote
[2008/04/06 12:35] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: as the other two RA members who have not voted, plus one citizen, wish to speak. OK?
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: for which we have 5 minutes left 🙂 so: Sonja, then Beathan, then Danton, please? One minute each?
[2008/04/06 12:36] You: anything Sonja?
[2008/04/06 12:36] Sonja Strom: I am ready to vote – I just wanted to say the one thing that I did already. I would, however, like to hear what Danton wants to say.
[2008/04/06 12:36] You: OK. Beathan?
[2008/04/06 12:36] ThePrincess Parisi: im fur it
[2008/04/06 12:36] Beathan Vale: Sudane — and some other volunteers — mostly declined recognition, but this proposal does not seem to givem them a right to opt out — we should not pass a measure that recognizes people who do not seek or want such recognition — however, with an opt out it could be OK
[2008/04/06 12:37] ThePrincess Parisi: of course they can
[2008/04/06 12:37] You: Is that a proposed amendment to specify that designate honorees can opt out? 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:37] Beathan Vale: Also — the measure does not specify how we should recognize our volunteers — I’m not sure what it does without that process detail
[2008/04/06 12:37] ThePrincess Parisi points at beathan: lawyer
[2008/04/06 12:37] You: well BV i’d say it leaves that to the Chancellor 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:37] You: yes or no on wanting an amendment, please?
[2008/04/06 12:37] ThePrincess Parisi: it says they go in the museum…….
[2008/04/06 12:37] Beathan Vale: OK
[2008/04/06 12:37] Jamie Palisades makes a friendly shush sound
[2008/04/06 12:38] Sonja Strom: Beathan, do you have an amendment to propose?
[2008/04/06 12:38] Beathan Vale: we put our volunteers in the museum? hmmm
[2008/04/06 12:38] ThePrincess Parisi: it was mizou’s idea
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: OK any OBJECTIONS to the FRIENDLY Beathan amendment about opting-out?
[2008/04/06 12:38] ThePrincess Parisi: it goes with the tour
[2008/04/06 12:38] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/06 12:38] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/04/06 12:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i talked to you about it at the time .. long ago beathan
[2008/04/06 12:38] Beathan Vale: yes, please add an “opt out” — “any volunteer proposed to be honored shall be contacted and may decline the honor”
[2008/04/06 12:38] Sonja Strom: I am in favor of such an amendment.
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: 🙂 got it
[2008/04/06 12:38] MT Lundquist: me to
[2008/04/06 12:38] Beathan Vale: TP — yes, but not in the text
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: if I hear no objections, it’s so amended by acclaimation
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: OK then 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:39] You: We are on the motion as amended – and it’s Danton’ turn – and we will be out of time shortly after that
[2008/04/06 12:39] You: Danton?
[2008/04/06 12:39] Danton Sideways: On the surface it seems like a fine idea to recognize contributors
[2008/04/06 12:39] Danton Sideways: But this motion disturbs coming from who it does at the present time
[2008/04/06 12:40] Danton Sideways: It is as if one party has assassinated another and then wants to enshrine them
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: lol………..it was submitted ages ago danton.. and thank you for your comment
[2008/04/06 12:40] Jamie Palisades gives Danton that no-personalities look
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:40] You: we done?
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: may i speak
[2008/04/06 12:40] You: we ready to vote? If it’s NEW and pertinent, sure Prin
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: the week after i proposed it your party proposed a simiar thing.. don tworry hun
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its not a evil plot
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: I accept Danton’s amendment that we add a term “the first act of recognition is the cast all CSDF members in bronze and store them in the museum basement” — 😉
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] Danton Sideways: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:41] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: MOOONNNNN!!
[2008/04/06 12:41] You: knock it off y’all
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: a statute of MOON
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/06 12:41] You: just stop
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: kk
[2008/04/06 12:41] You: Members please state your vote – on notecard motion as amended by Beathan’s friendly amendment. I vote aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: put moon in as the frist inducteee ok .. aye im serious
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: ok unanimous
[2008/04/06 12:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i did this with jon danton
[2008/04/06 12:42] MT Lundquist: and i second if thats needed
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:42] ThePrincess Parisi: sheesh
====
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: 4
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: Greener SIms – please note:
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: the bill’s in the forum posts, at the URI I put in today’s agenda
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: is anyone carryign the ball on this?
[2008/04/06 12:42] Beathan Vale: It was Pat’s
[2008/04/06 12:42] Sonja Strom: It was a CSDF proposal.
[2008/04/06 12:43] Sonja Strom: I would like to make a statement about it.
[2008/04/06 12:43] You: That does not relieve us of our duty to address open agenda items 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:43] Beathan Vale: But it is on the CSDF platform — and I have indicated that I will champion their platform in their absence
[2008/04/06 12:43] You: OK, SOnja, then BV please
[2008/04/06 12:43] Sonja Strom: I have talked with many people about this bill, including in the DPU (naturally), in the CDSF, and elsewhere.
[2008/04/06 12:44] Sonja Strom: One of those people is an expert in this area in RL – and was completely opposed to this bill.
[2008/04/06 12:44] Sonja Strom: My conclusion is to be against it.
[2008/04/06 12:44] Sonja Strom: done —
[2008/04/06 12:45] ThePrincess Parisi: ok thanks ss
[2008/04/06 12:45] You: OK
[2008/04/06 12:45] You: BV?
[2008/04/06 12:45] Beathan Vale: The purpose of this bill is to have the CDS take a lead in a RL political issue — carbon banking and global warming
[2008/04/06 12:45] Beathan Vale: I have confirmed that such carbon credits are available, but not commonly used yet in the US, as we are not a signatory to Kyoto
[2008/04/06 12:46] Sonja Strom: Welcome Gwyneth.
[2008/04/06 12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn tries not to interrupt the sesion
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: However, carbon banking is one of Obama’s central environmental proposals — and McCain is not against it
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: so — I think it is coming.
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: That is my spiel in favor
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: putting on my own hat — I think that this proposal in its current form in premature
[2008/04/06 12:47] Beathan Vale: I would like to amend it to add “the chancellor shall investigate the possiblity and feasibility of the following proposal –”
[2008/04/06 12:47] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:47] Beathan Vale: I think we want to do this — but it will be hard to do at the moment
[2008/04/06 12:47] MT Lundquist: i would be happy with that amendment
[2008/04/06 12:47] ThePrincess Parisi: well i think we should wait
[2008/04/06 12:47] You: hm
[2008/04/06 12:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and let it be rewrited and researched
[2008/04/06 12:47] Beathan Vale: I think this will and should happen — but not until we know that the RL infrastructure exists in a way that we can access
[2008/04/06 12:47] You: I have a comment and a suggestion. My personal comment is that, while I think we want to keep this item for work, I think it would be best done with stakeholders present- AND there’s no timing issue for adoption so far as I know – so I’d be inclined to hold it over until after the new 2 RA members are seated. Reactions?
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/06 12:48] Sonja Strom: Beathan, that sounds like a good idea, but I don’t think we should add that to the Chancellor’s job… Unless, of course, he is interested in it himself.
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: ok with me jamie
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: second JP’s procedural proposal
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: ac now, or in a month?
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think the chancellor is the place
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: anyone want to forge ahead now?
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i agree jamie
[2008/04/06 12:48] Sonja Strom: Jamie, I agree.
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: .. not hearing objections
[2008/04/06 12:48] MT Lundquist: happy to wait
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: OK then thanks
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: stop til the new RA .. or old ra are back
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: Sonja — he’s not here to defend himself — that’s how we assign committee chair IRL
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: I love the issue – just think we need some more people in place for it
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: whoever misses the meeting has to chair
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: next item
====
[2008/04/06 12:49] Sonja Strom: heehee Beathan, that will teach him not to be here 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: and hm – did we get the last few attendees to consent to being recorded?
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: next item is 5
[2008/04/06 12:49] Sonja Strom: not yet
[2008/04/06 12:49] Beathan Vale: didn’t see Gwyn
[2008/04/06 12:49] Sonja Strom: Pip, Gwyn, Arria, Bjerkel?
[2008/04/06 12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… sure, record everything lol
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: We offered to have the Guild back to report on their progress on fourth sim planning – PLEASE note –
[2008/04/06 12:49] Beathan Vale: now everyone has
[2008/04/06 12:50] Bjerkel Eerie: sure
[2008/04/06 12:50] You: this is NOT the same thing as the new legislation issues
[2008/04/06 12:50] You: thans BV – OK – on item 5 – do we have any guild folks here to rpoert?
[2008/04/06 12:50] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy is here
[2008/04/06 12:50] Cindy Ecksol does not speak for the guild
[2008/04/06 12:50] You: I wasn’t at Guild – anything formally or informally that we should know about plans and timing, Cindy, that you can say, OTHER than the various ideas about new legislation?
[2008/04/06 12:50] ThePrincess Parisi: no guild
[2008/04/06 12:51] You: OK then
[2008/04/06 12:51] Cindy Ecksol: arria is here….
[2008/04/06 12:51] ThePrincess Parisi: they made a committee this week
[2008/04/06 12:51] ThePrincess Parisi: last week they took two hours to vote on a logo
[2008/04/06 12:51] ThePrincess Parisi: thats what i surmized
[2008/04/06 12:51] Sonja Strom: sounds like us…
[2008/04/06 12:51] Arria Perreault: We have created a wg to work on masterplan
[2008/04/06 12:51] Jamie Palisades is waiting to hear from Arria if she wishes before proceeding
[2008/04/06 12:51] Beathan Vale: Moon on way — just give her a minute
[2008/04/06 12:51] Arria Perreault: ok I prefer
[2008/04/06 12:51] Sonja Strom: wg = work group?
[2008/04/06 12:52] Arria Perreault: yes
[2008/04/06 12:52] Beathan Vale: she is dealing with a RL kitchen flood apparently
[2008/04/06 12:52] Sonja Strom: uh oh
[2008/04/06 12:52] You: yikes
[2008/04/06 12:52] Beathan Vale: good practice for making dry land rise from the waters
[2008/04/06 12:52] You: well we can movg thigns around – everyuone OK if we go to next item, and come back to this?
[2008/04/06 12:52] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, to clarify prin’s semantically loaded rhetoric….
[2008/04/06 12:52] MT Lundquist: fine
[2008/04/06 12:52] ThePrincess Parisi: agree
[2008/04/06 12:52] Sonja Strom: agree
[2008/04/06 12:52] You: Cindy, hold for now please?
[2008/04/06 12:52] Cindy Ecksol: ok….
[2008/04/06 12:52] ThePrincess Parisi: she needs to translate for me
====
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: next item was our added “six and a quarter: “)
[2008/04/06 12:53] ThePrincess Parisi: its a cultural isse jamie
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: 6.25 =
[2008/04/06 12:53] Beathan Vale: Moon on way
[2008/04/06 12:53] Beathan Vale: Moon here
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: commerce commission
[2008/04/06 12:53] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[2008/04/06 12:53] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has notecoards
[2008/04/06 12:53] Sonja Strom: Welcome Moon
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: Oopsie 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moon 😀
[2008/04/06 12:53] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/06 12:53] Moon Adamant: can i ask to be excused for a minute only?
[2008/04/06 12:53] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: Ofcourse
[2008/04/06 12:53] ThePrincess Parisi: yes you were late we went on moon
[2008/04/06 12:53] MT Lundquist: i have concluded the commerce commission
[2008/04/06 12:53] Beathan Vale: yes — we will move onto next item and come back
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: let me know when you;re sorted out OK Moon
[2008/04/06 12:54] You: item 6.25 is
[2008/04/06 12:54] You: commerce comimssion
[2008/04/06 12:54] You: MT?
[2008/04/06 12:54] MT Lundquist: i have a notecard that sets out the bill objectives and the commissions response and recommendations
[2008/04/06 12:54] MT Lundquist: i will pass it round now post on the forum after the meeting
[2008/04/06 12:55] MT Lundquist: and i propose we add it to next weeks agenda for people to get a reasonable time to read it
[2008/04/06 12:55] ThePrincess Parisi: comments now?
[2008/04/06 12:55] You: can you give us a summary?
[2008/04/06 12:55] MT Lundquist gave you Commerce Commision Recommendations.
[2008/04/06 12:55] Sonja Strom: Thanks for the notecard MT.
[2008/04/06 12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you MT!
[2008/04/06 12:56] MT Lundquist: Recommendation Propose that the RA form a Chamber of Commerce for CDS. That this Chamber be made up of volunteer members from those holding and using for commercial purposes commercial land in CDS. That the leader of the Chamber of Commerce be elected by the members of the Chamber of Commerce every six months. That the Chamber of Commerce:
[2008/04/06 12:56] MT Lundquist: 1) supports the business community and advocates for its members by creating a strong local economy. Supporting the existing shop owners (by having the CDS launch promotional events and do some advertising; 2) promotes the community. Attracting new content creators willing to open a shop in the CDS; sponsoring events to attract customers; weekly social event shop promotion/events 3) provides networking opportunities. Financing a promotional campaign grid-wide to let the SL residents know that the CDS is a shopping destination for high quality products (and services). 4) represents the interests of business with government; 5) supports business-friendly ballot measures and evaluates candidates for public office.
[2008/04/06 12:56] MT Lundquist: It was noted that as at 23rd February 2008: in NFS there are 13 commercial lots with 2 not used and 1 provided for all citizens in CN there are 24 commercial lots with 3 empty, 1 museum, 1 info centre, 1 embassy
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i commend MT on handleing the commission so well
[2008/04/06 12:57] MT Lundquist: It was noted that as at 23rd February 2008: in NFS there are 13 commercial lots with 2 not used and 1 provided for all citizens in CN there are 24 commercial lots with 3 empty, 1 museum, 1 info centre, 1 embassy
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/04/06 12:57] You: (Ooookay – Moon and I are illustrating why we need a conflict of interest bill — who wants to tell her? Hell I did not every know these chairs LET two people sit down …)
[2008/04/06 12:57] MT Lundquist: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period; If the commercial criteria are not satisfied within the three week period the Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate; The Chamber of Commerce is then required to sell the commercial lot to another commercial trader.
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: what?
[2008/04/06 12:57] MT Lundquist: misc recommendations That renting commercial lots to another for subsequent trade be considered trade so long as the tenant satisfies the commercial use rules. For avoidance of doubt the tenant is not made a citizen of CDS merely as a result of being a tenant. That the Chamber of Commerce be allowed to rule on the appropriateness of trade i.e. if they receive complaints about the type of commercial activity. For instance it might be considered inappropriate for full nudity skin shops to operate in CDS. That logos for CDS commerce be developed. Direct tp to assist trade (recognised this now exists in CN but not yet in NFS) More actively recruit more offerings from local creators Add a set of LMs or product sample pictures and perhaps a MAP of all known CDS shops. Take that same shopping-in-CDS content and put it on a CDS wbe site page.
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie you are interrupting
[2008/04/06 12:57] Jamie Palisades smiles weakly – proceed please
[2008/04/06 12:57] Beathan Vale: Yikes — unfunded and unsupported mandate alert
[2008/04/06 12:57] Sonja Strom: Moon is sitting in his lap 😉
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: oh my
[2008/04/06 12:58] Justice Soothsayer: those wings have gotta hurt
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: oh oh
[2008/04/06 12:58] Jamie Palisades thinks about going there and veers off mentally
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyn has a sword jamie
[2008/04/06 12:58] Danton Sideways: wants to comment
[2008/04/06 12:58] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:58] You: MT, done?
[2008/04/06 12:58] Cindy Ecksol: aw, it’s so cute!
[2008/04/06 12:58] You: we are not going to act today – but Danton?
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: well done MT, yes, he’s done
[2008/04/06 12:59] Moon Adamant: back
[2008/04/06 12:59] Danton Sideways: Can I comment?
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: yes ty
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: just passing the notecards out
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: but done
[2008/04/06 12:59] Cindy Ecksol waves at moon
[2008/04/06 12:59] Cindy Ecksol: Over here!
[2008/04/06 12:59] Sonja Strom: Thank you very much for all of the work you have done on this, MT.
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:59] You: 🙂 Danton, please – then let’s move on
[2008/04/06 13:00] Danton Sideways: I quote: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period
[2008/04/06 13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL and apologises
[2008/04/06 13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn was looking at Moon’s sitting on top of the LRA
[2008/04/06 13:00] ThePrincess Parisi: probs at home gwynnie
[2008/04/06 13:00] Danton Sideways: This type of totalitarian control over my commercial activities reveals the true nature of the current government
[2008/04/06 13:00] Jamie Palisades whispers hush kids
[2008/04/06 13:00] Arria Perreault: May I have the word?
[2008/04/06 13:01] You: I have a request of Danton. I;m worried about confiscatory acts too. COUld you please post yoru take on this at the Forums as a comment to theMT post?
[2008/04/06 13:01] Danton Sideways: Will do
[2008/04/06 13:01] You: And yes, if Danton is done, it;s Arris’a turn
[2008/04/06 13:01] Sonja Strom: Welcome Rain.
[2008/04/06 13:01] You: Arria?
[2008/04/06 13:01] ThePrincess Parisi: hi raine
[2008/04/06 13:01] MT Lundquist: yes that would help its a summary of the recommendations discussed by citizens who attended
[2008/04/06 13:01] Rain Ninetails: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:02] Beathan Vale: agree — I want to see commercial uses supported, rather than lots forfeited — we want to encourage and subsidize commerce, but not penalize alternative uses this severely
[2008/04/06 13:02] Arria Perreault: I think that the traffic is not the only indicator for a good commercial activity
[2008/04/06 13:02] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/04/06 13:02] Sonja Strom agrees.
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: well the committee decided that as i recall
[2008/04/06 13:02] You: ??
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: it is the only measurable item
[2008/04/06 13:02] Beathan Vale: also true
[2008/04/06 13:02] MT Lundquist: the citizens who attended where very specific about traffic
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: we discussed that at length
[2008/04/06 13:02] You: let’s not do detailed chat about this – didn;t set enough time for it today
[2008/04/06 13:02] Cindy Ecksol is wondering why those good ideas were not expressed at the CC meetings BEFORE the report was offered up
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing else can be measured
[2008/04/06 13:02] MT Lundquist: kk
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: land traffic can
[2008/04/06 13:03] You: ahem 🙂 any other URGENT NEW comments?
[2008/04/06 13:03] Arria Perreault: you could ask the merchants about what they sell
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i have one
[2008/04/06 13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like the LRA to look at the IMs
[2008/04/06 13:03] Beathan Vale: there will be avid debate on the forum on this one — before the RA needs to act
[2008/04/06 13:03] MT Lundquist: they were cindy
[2008/04/06 13:03] Jamie Palisades is waiting for Prin, and then, he hopes, end of this item for this week
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy was there..
[2008/04/06 13:03] Arria Perreault: I think also that we cannot ask people to give back their plot
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we can arria
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/06 13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: Arria, would you please post your comments in this thread in the
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: CDS Forum?
[2008/04/06 13:04] Arria Perreault: I will
[2008/04/06 13:04] Beathan Vale: I think we have to be careful in forfeiting plots — especially as there are no residential lots available to move displaced citizens to
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: MT, could you help us to find it?
[2008/04/06 13:04] You: 🙂 Sonja beat me to it – yes please – all comments to the Forum post too
[2008/04/06 13:04] You: and I have one more new commenter than we’re out of time I think
[2008/04/06 13:04] MT Lundquist: i will post after the meeting
[2008/04/06 13:04] ThePrincess Parisi: but that a emergency is that the same ppl that created the current crisis and the need for an election, ruled on that.. and are now running.. i think we need to declare this unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 13:04] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: Again, we are not making a decision about this in this meeting everybody.
[2008/04/06 13:04] ThePrincess Parisi: oh
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: Gwyneth? You had something on this one (which we agreed to hold over for a week)?
[2008/04/06 13:05] Beathan Vale: Bells — please consent to be published
[2008/04/06 13:05] Beathan Vale: Rain as wll
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who has the floor now, Mr LRA?
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i thought i did sorry
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: You Gwyn
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, after PRincess then
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess first 😀
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: Oh sorry thought Prin psoke
[2008/04/06 13:05] Bells Semyorka: ok
[2008/04/06 13:05] Rain Ninetails: I consent for the publish
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: go P
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: gp G 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:05] Justice Soothsayer: i thought I was next on TP’s electoral issues
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i said that……………….and
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: who is talked
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that my fellow citizens have been rather nice about saying “I think that the Government should not seize private property”
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think that.
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private property can only be forfeited
[2008/04/06 13:06] ThePrincess Parisi: well should can and will are different things
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in case of a *crime*
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not because people suddenly have less traffic… sheesh
[2008/04/06 13:07] Bjerkel Eerie thinks its the court not the RA that rules on constutuinality and crimes
[2008/04/06 13:07] You: shh all (except GL)
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Bjerkel
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2008/04/06 13:07] Sonja Strom: Could we please continue this discussion in the Forum?
[2008/04/06 13:07] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/04/06 13:07] You: 30 secs, then time GL
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, Sonja
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either this is going to be voted â€”
[2008/04/06 13:07] Beathan Vale: I think that there will not be strong RA support for forfeiture
[2008/04/06 13:07] You: *sigh*
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then we should talk now before it’s too late
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or it will be voted next week
[2008/04/06 13:07] MT Lundquist: I thought we were discussing next week
[2008/04/06 13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I won’t be Ms Nice Person on the forums, believe me.
[2008/04/06 13:08] Sonja Strom: ok, sorry to interrupt, which I did do.
[2008/04/06 13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Jamie
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: 🙂 OK an agenda check and arequest for RA agenbda modification – hold up all please –
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: we’;re out of time on this – and –
[2008/04/06 13:08] MT Lundquist: and i’m sad that people who have a strong voice now DIDNT come to the commission meetings with the other citizens
[2008/04/06 13:08] ThePrincess Parisi: they want to have their cake and eat it too
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: anythind more we do here today on this will eat tinme from, e.g.,
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: HUSH
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: at time from “sim development” and Prin’s item on SC
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: so
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: anyone who is RA member want to extend time on this one?
[2008/04/06 13:08] ThePrincess Parisi: i give my time to MT
[2008/04/06 13:08] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOO
[2008/04/06 13:09] ThePrincess Parisi: forums like sonja said
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: that’s meanigless here Priun, sorry
[2008/04/06 13:09] Beathan Vale: I think we should here form Moon and then let her go
[2008/04/06 13:09] Beathan Vale: hear from I mean
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: any diagreemenr with Prin? Hold it for a week – or end-of-today open microphone?
[2008/04/06 13:09] Beathan Vale: “here form Moon” what a weird Freudian slip
[2008/04/06 13:09] Sonja Strom: Did Gwyneth want to say more? I interrupted her.
[2008/04/06 13:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i have an emergency
[2008/04/06 13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no no, I’m finished, Sonja
[2008/04/06 13:09] ThePrincess Parisi: it cannot wait til next week
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: this is on Commerce, still, OK? Gwyn indicated she was done I think
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: OK then
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: Moon, apologies – this will continue on forums and we’ll come back to it
[2008/04/06 13:10] Moon Adamant: ok
====
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: that was item 6.25 taken out of sequence
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: we are back at 5 as Moon is with us
[2008/04/06 13:10] Moon Adamant: 5 being?
[2008/04/06 13:10] Beathan Vale: Guild report on fourth sim progress
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: 5 = new sim planning – except for the new legislation ideas, which are 7
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: 🙂 Moon, your microphone
[2008/04/06 13:10] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: have the RA prepared the more complete specs we requested?
[2008/04/06 13:11] Beathan Vale: yes — posted
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: yes, your white paper
[2008/04/06 13:11] You: We have a post from Beathan that started the “white paper” thread
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: have they been voted?
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: by this RA, i mean?
[2008/04/06 13:11] Beathan Vale: they were previously voted
[2008/04/06 13:11] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: previously?
[2008/04/06 13:12] You: does the guild believe that’s inadequate in detail? Or are you asking about their legitimacy. MOON ONLY please
[2008/04/06 13:12] Beathan Vale: everything was already in the approved project —
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: how so?
[2008/04/06 13:12] MT Lundquist: weeks ago
[2008/04/06 13:12] You: sorry – bad typing, but I asked Moon a question there, hope it;s readable
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: i just want to know
[2008/04/06 13:12] Beathan Vale: but — to be clear — I propose we do a clarifying vote
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: if beathan’s ‘white paper’
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: is THE final specs to the Guild
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: oficially
[2008/04/06 13:13] Beathan Vale: There are 5 questions the RA needs to answer — and any further details are inappropriate for legislatiive resolution. These are as follows:
“(i) the rough number of plots
(ii) the range of sizes of plots
(iii) price and affordability
(iv) single/double prim
(v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land
(vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre
(vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory. ”
“1. About 50 lots for sale; remaining land for public lots
2. Lots for sale to be a mix of 512s and 1024s
3. Lots for sale are to be as affordable as possible
4. All lots are presumed to be single prim lots, unless the design provides a significant prim surplusage after public lands are built; this surplusage is to be used to increase prim allotment on private lots
5. Any land left after the zoning of private lots and public access (roads) is to be used for public gardens; the private lots are to be primarily residential
6. gardens
7. roads”
[2008/04/06 13:13] Moon Adamant: stamped and sealed
[2008/04/06 13:13] You: can do – but – I want to know if the Guild believes Beathan’s post fails to meet the legislatively required amount of detail.
[2008/04/06 13:13] You: (post pretty much same as what BV just cut and pasted to this chat)
[2008/04/06 13:14] Moon Adamant: well, guild’s position is clear
[2008/04/06 13:14] You: 🙂 either it’s sufficient or not, kids. Does the Guild have a position? We will assume it IS sufficient if no one says diff
[2008/04/06 13:14] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/04/06 13:14] Moon Adamant: the specs must comply to RA bill hmmmm
[2008/04/06 13:14] You: i would like Moon’s answer first please
[2008/04/06 13:14] Beathan Vale: Can we do a clarification vote on the 7 spec item?
[2008/04/06 13:15] You: this is two bodies trying to negotiate officially, folks – it needs attention and clarity, so I am waiting to see if we have a fundamental issue
[2008/04/06 13:15] Pip Torok: sorry folks … have emergency must leave meeting
[2008/04/06 13:15] You: sorry pip, good luck
[2008/04/06 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: bye pip
[2008/04/06 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/04/06 13:15] Arria Perreault: bye pip
[2008/04/06 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!
[2008/04/06 13:15] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/06 13:15] Moon Adamant: Guild’s resolution:
[2008/04/06 13:16] Moon Adamant: Guild must be provided with all of the points listed in NL 8-2, section 2, phase 1
[2008/04/06 13:17] Moon Adamant: hmmm, wiki isn’t working for me
[2008/04/06 13:17] You: while waiting for Moon – here is where I believe we are, for clarity. RA adopted an act. It’s posted in transacipt – a long messy transcript. Betahan extracted a shorter clearer set of instructions which he says are the set of instructiosn on the sim – and were adopted. He also says they satisfy ML 8-2 s 2. Either he is right or wrong. I will assume the Guild *accepts* that he is right – unless the Guild tells us different. We are having that very chat, and Moon’s clarifying the Guild’s posiiton.
[2008/04/06 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://208.101.22.58/~aliasi4/nburgwiki … age=NL+8-2
[2008/04/06 13:17] Beathan Vale: I think my 7 point item does that — doesn’t it?
[2008/04/06 13:18] Jamie Palisades thinks we’ll run over a little on this one, but it’s necessary. But if no Guild representative asserts that the instructosn are insufficient, then they’re been given and *accepted*. So let’s get that sorted out now, hm?
[2008/04/06 13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/04/06 13:19] Beathan Vale: for clarity — can we issue an informational vote on my seven points
[2008/04/06 13:19] Moon Adamant: I am sorry…. having lots of issues with wiki, let me try Gwyn’s link
[2008/04/06 13:19] Cindy Ecksol is still raising hand….
[2008/04/06 13:19] Beathan Vale: to be fair — one item was implied but not expressed in previous session
[2008/04/06 13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon, scroll back on History, Beathan posted the relevant section and the RA’s answer
[2008/04/06 13:19] Beathan Vale: There are 5 questions the RA needs to answer — and any further details are inappropriate for legislative resolution. These are as follows:
“(i) the rough number of plots
(ii) the range of sizes of plots
(iii) price and affordability
(iv) single/double prim
(v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land
(vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre
(vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory. ”
“1. About 50 lots for sale; remaining land for public lots
2. Lots for sale to be a mix of 512s and 1024s
3. Lots for sale are to be as affordable as possible
4. All lots are presumed to be single prim lots, unless the design provides a significant prim surplusage after public lands are built; this surplusage is to be used to increase prim allotment on private lots
5. Any land left after the zoning of private lots and public access (roads) is to be used for public gardens; the private lots are to be primarily residential
6. gardens
7. roads”
[2008/04/06 13:20] You: Cindy: apologies, but I wish to wait for Moon, who’s a privileged speaker on this topic
[2008/04/06 13:20] You: sometimes we get better answers if we wait politely for them 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:21] Beathan Vale: also — I should clarify 2 that the RA specifically OKs clustering
[2008/04/06 13:21] Moon Adamant: thanks Beathan, for the correct questions
[2008/04/06 13:21] Moon Adamant: your white paper gives considerable latitude to the Guild – is that acceptable?
[2008/04/06 13:22] Moon Adamant: for instance
[2008/04/06 13:22] Beathan Vale: yes — I think it was intended
[2008/04/06 13:22] ThePrincess Parisi: indeed
[2008/04/06 13:22] Moon Adamant: you say
[2008/04/06 13:22] Moon Adamant: 3. Lots for sale are to be as affordable as possible
[2008/04/06 13:23] Moon Adamant: this means taht the Guild will do a financial study to determine a minimal price/m2 – is this acceptable?
[2008/04/06 13:23] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/04/06 13:23] Moon Adamant: of course, all of this will be reviewed by you later on
[2008/04/06 13:23] ThePrincess Parisi: sure i am sure that will take a LONG LONG time
[2008/04/06 13:23] ThePrincess Parisi: perhaps you search land sales instead
[2008/04/06 13:23] Moon Adamant: Princess
[2008/04/06 13:23] You: hush please – Moon has the floor
[2008/04/06 13:23] ThePrincess Parisi: the data is all there hun
[2008/04/06 13:23] MT Lundquist: yes takes aboout 5 mins
[2008/04/06 13:23] Beathan Vale: and we defer to the guild on aesthetic standards — which should inform the minimum price possible
[2008/04/06 13:24] You: Moon, please let me know when you are done – and please try to conclude withint 2 minutes
[2008/04/06 13:24] Moon Adamant: as I generally hand the financial study to the experts, I am not going to comment what you said
[2008/04/06 13:24] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/06 13:24] Moon Adamant: i’ll try to resume then
[2008/04/06 13:25] Moon Adamant: i think we can work with this, but on the assumption that the specs as defined by beathan on his whit epaper
[2008/04/06 13:25] Moon Adamant: give the Guild considerable latitude
[2008/04/06 13:25] Moon Adamant: we assume that is what you intend?
[2008/04/06 13:26] Beathan Vale: yes — fair assumption
[2008/04/06 13:26] You: 30 seconds please.
[2008/04/06 13:26] Moon Adamant: ok, then we will start working on these s+pecs over our masterplan
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: I will ask Cindy to comment in a moment. (RA members speak first under our rules, with a few exceptions.) First though, let me comment. The RA passed these instructions before I joined the RA. I have heard a lot of support — AND a lot of misgivings about them. But they stand, and we MUST FIRST confirm if the Guild has what it understand to be sufficient direction. I believe Moon has said “yes”. Even if these instructions are debated later, or a more detailed plan comes back from Guild to RA. So. I think the right next question, after Cindy speaks, will be “when can the RA have a more detailed plan back from the Guild?”
[2008/04/06 13:27] Moon Adamant: and as usual, we will present a final plan to this RA to apprve
[2008/04/06 13:27] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: Done Moon?
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: (for this item anyway)
[2008/04/06 13:27] Moon Adamant: just one question more
[2008/04/06 13:27] MT Lundquist: can we have an answer to the when from moon please
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: we’re running behind. WAIT PLEASE
[2008/04/06 13:28] You: I ask the RA to extend this item for 5 minutes. Any objection?
[2008/04/06 13:28] You: (I will get there MT)
[2008/04/06 13:28] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:28] You: I hear no objections….
[2008/04/06 13:28] Moon Adamant: The Guild may wish to review specs with RA at any time… say we can only fit 44 plots – can we come back and dicuss it with you?
[2008/04/06 13:29] You: Of course. OK, extended to 13h32. Cindy: 2 minutes please
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: yes — but a sim has room for 129 512s
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: 128 I mean
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: thank you
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: so I think that 50 should be doable
[2008/04/06 13:29] You: “Cindy”
[2008/04/06 13:29] Moon Adamant: yes, but it also needs roads and gardens 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:29] MT Lundquist: yep
[2008/04/06 13:29] Moon Adamant: and this one has a river too
[2008/04/06 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: my concern is that beathan’s proposal includes direction to the guild for 512/1024 single prim lots….
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: I do not see anywhere that this was authorized.
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: nor discussed, for that matter.
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: by who cindy?
[2008/04/06 13:30] You: would the attendees please give the floor to Cindy? meaning,others be quiet untiul she’s done?
[2008/04/06 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: by the RA
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild authorized it
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted on it
[2008/04/06 13:30] Moon Adamant: pardon?
[2008/04/06 13:30] Beathan Vale: Cindy — Feb 24 meeting I think
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA did i mean
[2008/04/06 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: I do not recall hearing ANY discussion on the single-prim issue
[2008/04/06 13:30] Moon Adamant: ah ok
[2008/04/06 13:30] You: EXCUSE ME
[2008/04/06 13:30] Beathan Vale: we considered 4 proposals — a 50 lot mixed 512/1024 passed
[2008/04/06 13:30] You: A question to Beathen, yes or no – is THAT detail in your white paper?
[2008/04/06 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: YES!!!! BUT NOT THE SINGLE PRIMS!!!
[2008/04/06 13:31] Cindy Ecksol: I read the detail in the white paper, jamie — that is why I am asking
[2008/04/06 13:31] ThePrincess Parisi: fit our lots first then put your rivers and things in
[2008/04/06 13:31] Beathan Vale: the single prim detail is in the white paper — it is the issue that was not specifically discussed, but I think implied — my suggestion is that the lots are single prims unless there are prims left over from the garden — extra prims should go to make the lots double prims
[2008/04/06 13:31] You: *sigh*
[2008/04/06 13:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted on it cindy
[2008/04/06 13:31] You: Prin please hush
[2008/04/06 13:31] Beathan Vale: or — something new — prim and a half
[2008/04/06 13:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted on single prims
[2008/04/06 13:31] You: Beathan, thank you
[2008/04/06 13:31] Beathan Vale: however — it may be fair to revote on this
[2008/04/06 13:32] Beathan Vale: I think single prims were implied — unless extra prims available — but I don’t think we actually voted on the issue
[2008/04/06 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: single prim and 512 do NOT make for quality builds in my personal opinion. that is why I am asking about this. needs to be discussed
[2008/04/06 13:32] Moon Adamant: can I propose that we have a look at the matter first?
[2008/04/06 13:32] You: we “guild”?
[2008/04/06 13:32] Beathan Vale: Cindy — that is why the RA authorized clustering
[2008/04/06 13:32] Moon Adamant: yes, we guild
[2008/04/06 13:32] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy the y are lots not build
[2008/04/06 13:32] You: BV can we do THAT next week after taking any Guild comments into account – assuming they comment before next Saturday?
[2008/04/06 13:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and ppl can buy more than one
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: Prin
[2008/04/06 13:33] Beathan Vale: again — a 10 unit tenement on a 5120 could be a very nice build
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: you are way out of order Prin, unless you are recognized
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: as are others, increasingly – we’re a legislature, not a pub 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: so
[2008/04/06 13:33] Beathan Vale: I want the next sim to have a pub for the RA to use!
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: lol i just bought a pub
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: Beathan. Can we do your incipient amendment about single-poim next week? To give the Guild 6 days to comment?
[2008/04/06 13:34] Beathan Vale: yes — good idea
[2008/04/06 13:34] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into MT’s hand.
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: we’re at time limit again, as extended 🙂 please say yes
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: OK
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:34] MT Lundquist: just in case
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: Moon we are out of time
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: no extending
[2008/04/06 13:34] Beathan Vale: also we may want to clarify that the average is to be 512 to 1024 and that clustering is OK
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: Prin 🙂 I was not asking for an extension
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and that its not builds
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: shh all
[2008/04/06 13:35] Moon Adamant: Jamie?
[2008/04/06 13:35] MT Lundquist: no extended
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: No more time on this one, guys, please settle down
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: we’ll get back to it next week 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: and thanks Cindy for raising it
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: now
[2008/04/06 13:35] Cindy Ecksol: yw
====
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: item – hm – 6.5
[2008/04/06 13:35] Moon Adamant: i already stated what i had to say: Guild assumes it has considerable latitute and that can come back to RA for further clarification at any time
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: Agree. MOVING ON. Prin’s issue raised today – and I have one citizen who wants to speak – and 10 minutes. BUT FIRST
[2008/04/06 13:36] You: Let’s be real clear 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:36] You: I caution everyone that the rules give me as interim LRA the chance to be a lot meaner than you’ve seen so far, so long as I am just about it. Get into personalities and you may be surprised. We can legitimately discuss conflicts of interest and institutional issues. I will NOT tolerate personal attacks or questioning of motives from ANYONE. I will shut the meeting down or eject people first.
[2008/04/06 13:36] You: with that in mind, Prin, your floor 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:36] ThePrincess Parisi: I’m concerned aqbout this sequence of events: CSDF resigned from their seats saying they have no candidates for office, the RA asks the SC to run an election, The SC is asked to rule on whether CSDF (who now have candidates apparently) can run. The SC says they can, but heres the issue: The SC that voted is Claude DPU, Gwynn CSDF, Justice CSDF. Gwynn and Justice now are casndidates for the RA seats. This is a clear conflict of interest.
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: Prin I see no more typing – done?
[2008/04/06 13:37] Beathan Vale: Johnny please assent to have chat published and detach yourself from my lap
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: 🙂 not in that order
[2008/04/06 13:37] MT Lundquist: I think she may have crashed
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: Hm
[2008/04/06 13:37] Beathan Vale: thanks lol
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: I still see Prin – but let’s hold her place for a sec while I make two proecduiral comments.
[2008/04/06 13:38] MT Lundquist: They should have recused themselves from the vote if they intended to run
[2008/04/06 13:38] MT Lundquist: thats the end of her statement
[2008/04/06 13:38] MT Lundquist: i have her notecard
[2008/04/06 13:38] You: Thanks MT: First of my two comments is, I have one person non-RA who wishes to speak, that’s Justice – so anyone else please say so (except RA).
[2008/04/06 13:38] You: thanks
[2008/04/06 13:38] Beathan Vale: I think that the time for announcing candidacies had not yet been reached — and they may not yet have decided to run.
[2008/04/06 13:39] Beathan Vale: any other position is speculative.
[2008/04/06 13:39] Beathan Vale: that said — I expect that they will recuse themselves from administering or ruling on an election in which they are running.
[2008/04/06 13:39] MT Lundquist: yes that would be wise of them.
[2008/04/06 13:39] You: Here’s my second comment: I think CDS desperately needs conflict of interest law 🙂 we have little. Given that, I find it hard to see what could possibly be the basis for an allegation …
[2008/04/06 13:40] You: 🙂 now
[2008/04/06 13:40] You: Justice?
[2008/04/06 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: There are a couple of statements made by thePrincess (at the outset of this meeting) that I would point out are not quite accurate. First, she says that Gwyn and I caused the need for the by-election. That is not the case. True, the resignation of the members of our faction from the RA caused the need for the by-election, but neither of the two of us were the ones who resigned.
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: In fact, TP suggested at the last SC meeting that Gwyn and I could simply assume the CSDF seats by claiming them. I declined to do so, since I think it is far better for the entire community to decide who occupies those vacant seats.
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: Next, TP says “thar be no SC” since two members of the SC are candidates in the by-election. That is also not accurate, as there are SC members who are not running who could handle any challenges relating to the election. Moreover, our decisions to run came only AFTER the SC meeting regarding the challenges to the RA’s decisions on the election and only after a lot of careful consideration. I am sure Claude will confirm that timeline.
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: (And, BTW, the outcome of that SC meeting was the one thePrincess wanted, which was to find that the 10% faction rule and the “elimination of faction elimination” acts were constitutional. Ironic, no? And makes it hard to complain about alleged procedural irregularities)
[2008/04/06 13:41] Justice Soothsayer: There is precedent for SC members running in the election. Indeed, it could be argued that an SC member who is elected to the RA does not have to resign from the RA, just recuse themselves from the SC for the duration of the term. Neverthless, Gwyn and I have both said we will resign from the SC if elected to this august body.
[2008/04/06 13:41] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for listening.
[2008/04/06 13:41] Beathan Vale: yes — that has been done
[2008/04/06 13:41] Beathan Vale: I believe that we have had at least one person serve on the SC while running (SP candidate Diderot)
[2008/04/06 13:41] Justice Soothsayer returns the floor to the LRA
[2008/04/06 13:41] You: OK – and thanks – and perhaps Prin wishes to respond, but before that: (1) anyone else? and (2) MT could you get any missing part of Justice’s comments to Prin?
[2008/04/06 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but they also didnt create the empty seats i think
[2008/04/06 13:41] Beathan Vale: and I think we have even had plurality of office
[2008/04/06 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well its not just about them running
[2008/04/06 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: its because they also created the vacancies
[2008/04/06 13:42] Beathan Vale: recusal is appropriate procedural method — given we still have a small community
[2008/04/06 13:42] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/04/06 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and were in on all the things.. privy to the plan of the CSDF to grief us
[2008/04/06 13:42] Jamie Palisades notes that some office overlaps are in fact prohibited under current law — but not acting in one role while fishing for another 🙂 and I see NO recusal law at present — sadly
[2008/04/06 13:42] Beathan Vale: but — we do need more clarity on conflicts of interest — in RA, SC and other arms of govt
[2008/04/06 13:42] You: Beathan?
[2008/04/06 13:42] You: let me know when you are done w/in next 2 mins please, then ThePrincess
[2008/04/06 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do then, if there is a concern, we need to go to the SC with in the election
[2008/04/06 13:43] Jamie Palisades sighs floridly
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: no I crashed I wasnt done
[2008/04/06 13:43] Beathan Vale: JP — true — no recusal law — but there is a recusal practice — and the SC could find it implied in the Cosntitution separation of powers
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: Beathan’s talking 🙂 let him finish first please
[2008/04/06 13:43] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: OK, Prin?
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok I’m done I caught up
[2008/04/06 13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FYI There are five members in the SC
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: ok
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: any others who wish to speak?
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:43] Cindy Ecksol: me, please
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: but you were part of the plan then you ruled on it
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: that was so wrong
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: hold a sec – anyone else? last call 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: shh
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol raises hand!!!!
[2008/04/06 13:44] Jamie Palisades sees no other would-be speaker
[2008/04/06 13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn points at Cindy
[2008/04/06 13:44] Beathan Vale: Cindy
[2008/04/06 13:44] You: 🙂 Cindy go
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol: thx
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol: while I think that prin may be right about the conflict of interest…
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol: …I also see no constitutional crisis that requires intervention…
[2008/04/06 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: ….neither gwyn nor justice is doing anything that is specifically prohibited…..
[2008/04/06 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: ok then I’m done
[2008/04/06 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/04/06 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: and I am sure that they will recognize conflicts of interest as they come up and recuse themselves appropriately…..
[2008/04/06 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: that’s all
[2008/04/06 13:45] You: thanks …
[2008/04/06 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: how do they retroactively do that though for what gwyn did
[2008/04/06 13:45] You: I note no motion on the floor — and no applicable legislation — and an agenda item later about possible new conflict of interest laws — and we are out of time — so I think we are done 🙂 unless someone moves to extend time NOW
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: ?
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: Beathan – next item
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: I dont understand though
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: which is yours
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: 7?
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: private development
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: they made the rules..
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: ok sorry
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: hang on
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: Prin
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi stops
[2008/04/06 13:46] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: we’re done
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: on your item 6.5 that is
[2008/04/06 13:46] Beathan Vale: I would like to defer this item until I can process the Guild comments
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: and you can bring a motion next meeting if you like
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: OK fair enough
[2008/04/06 13:46] Beathan Vale: But I am willing to hear other discussion
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: let me provide a pointer
[2008/04/06 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: no no
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: 1. Beathan’s proposal URI in the agenda for this meeting …
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: 2. AND
[2008/04/06 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I wanna do Beathan’s bill
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: Guild comments also have a URI pointer there
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: Beathan wants to wait and has made no mnotion
[2008/04/06 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I move we do Beathan’s bill now
[2008/04/06 13:47] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: OK
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: 🙂 there’s a motion and second
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: Discussion on Beathan’s bill, moved by Prin? I will suggest Beathan first?
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: hes brb
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: ah right
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: Prin then? Your motion
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: and I want to get Moon too – due to Guild extensive comments
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: I wanna say that this is not something Beathan did in a vacuum
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: after the “exodux”
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: exodus
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: there were lots and lots of meetings with the publiec
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: many many CDS members of all factions
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: for long discussions on this matter
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: i think dispite teh guild posting
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: we move as the citizens made clear that they want us to
[2008/04/06 13:50] You: @ default 2 minute limits, you have 60 secs left Prin
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: many many were involved, albiet informally
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: that they wanted this
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: we went through each scenario
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: they did
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: we tweaked it
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: Beathan made lots of changes to his original plan
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: everyone was invited
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: it went on for days.. weeks on the forum
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: he did his civic duty and the citizens spoke
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: this bill is ………needed
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: essential
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and urgent
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we have new citizens who want to live here
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we need them
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: volunteers are weary
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we HAVE to have a sim
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild will stay as they are
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and be precious to us
[2008/04/06 13:51] You: time – 15 secs
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and we always want them as part of CDS
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: this takes their burden off
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: it doesnt take THEM away
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: it helps them
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: I vote we do it and NOW
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: end
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: thx
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: Is beathan back?
[2008/04/06 13:52] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: him & then Moon, please
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: to Prin’s motion to enact this now
[2008/04/06 13:52] Beathan Vale: I just received the Guild’s comments yesterday and I am still processing them
[2008/04/06 13:53] Beathan Vale: I think that my modified proposal (which was modified after substantial conversations in world and on the forums — as TP pointed out) answers many of the Guild’s questions — but not all of them
[2008/04/06 13:53] Beathan Vale: I agree that we have an intolerable situation — no land for new citizens
[2008/04/06 13:53] Jon Seattle: I agree to be recorded.
[2008/04/06 13:54] You: (thx Jon)
[2008/04/06 13:54] Beathan Vale: we should always have an ability to bring in new citizens — which means we need to run a land surplus
[2008/04/06 13:54] Beathan Vale: or — at best — jist in time inventory
[2008/04/06 13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Jon 🙂 )
[2008/04/06 13:54] Beathan Vale: we are running on a “when we can” inventory — and that is a problem
[2008/04/06 13:55] Beathan Vale: that said — I think that another week to tweak and refine the proposal in light of the Guild’s comments (again, received yesterday) would not be out of line
[2008/04/06 13:55] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: hmmm BV, I may call for a vote when you are done – on the Q of act now, versus next week, I am hearing no “new news”
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: OK. Members ready to vote?
[2008/04/06 13:55] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: Moon:
[2008/04/06 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: well i think we can talk about it now and vote next week
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: anything you want to say ABOUT acting immeidtaely, versus next week?
[2008/04/06 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I havent read the guild’s comments but I know this is paramount
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: Prin
[2008/04/06 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I think we act by discussing
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: please wait your turn
[2008/04/06 13:56] Bjerkel Eerie wonders if this is a community or a phone company looking for subscibers
[2008/04/06 13:56] You: sigh
[2008/04/06 13:56] You: Moon do you have anything to say at the moment?
[2008/04/06 13:56] Beathan Vale: It is a colony that lives and dies by immigration
[2008/04/06 13:56] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/06 13:56] MT Lundquist: I agree with Beathan
[2008/04/06 13:56] Moon Adamant: well, just a comment on the the draft analysis process
[2008/04/06 13:56] MT Lundquist: we grow or we die
[2008/04/06 13:56] You: That’s the white haired person with wings — in case any of the rest of you are having momentarily attacks of thinking you are Moon, or have the floor
[2008/04/06 13:57] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/04/06 13:57] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/04/06 13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/04/06 13:57] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/06 13:57] Jamie Palisades is waiting to see if Moon is typing before anyone else gets the floor
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: we tried to make a in-depth analysis of issues that could occur with the situation of private sims
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: it is not an exhaustive document, or a complete document
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: in our opinion, it should be publically discussed still
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: so that the CDS, when starting this new model of growth
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: is as sure on its feet as possible
[2008/04/06 13:59] MT Lundquist raises his hand
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: other than that, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the document – and who were not few
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: my many, many thanks
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: I am done
[2008/04/06 13:59] You: thanks.
[2008/04/06 14:00] You: Ready to vote?
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: may I speak
[2008/04/06 14:00] You: We’re out of time – can you do 30 secs?
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/06 14:00] You: thx
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: Basically
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: I believe that this can be discussed and amended this week and proposed for vote next week
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: I’m from the UK
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: but have read the history of Sseattle and its growth
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: Tthey didnt do it by wasting time
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: end
[2008/04/06 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: :)))
[2008/04/06 14:01] You: OK – and thx
[2008/04/06 14:01] Jon Seattle Seattle never waists time!
[2008/04/06 14:01] Beathan Vale: there is one critical element that I need to add to this proposal — IP rights
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: the city
[2008/04/06 14:01] You: Now a vote. Note, this is on Prin’s motion to enact now
[2008/04/06 14:02] Moon Adamant: planning never wastes time
[2008/04/06 14:02] MT Lundquist: jon the city
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: hush y’all
[2008/04/06 14:02] Beathan Vale: several other items in the report call for explanation — but that one is missing from the act entirely
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: Membrs please state their votes. I vote nay – happy to wait a week
[2008/04/06 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/04/06 14:02] Beathan Vale: nay — wait a week
[2008/04/06 14:02] MT Lundquist: nay wait a week
[2008/04/06 14:02] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: Sonja?
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: thank you all for a very orderly process on that.
====
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: OK, folks. Let us do an agenda and time check. We are behind – quelle surprise – and we have item 8 (new possible legislation) to discuss, and the ill-fated open discussion item we rarely can get to start. Here’s my suggestion. I propose we let Arria, our PIO, give us an announcement about imminent events, for 60 seconds, if RA members do not object — silence is OK if you assent 🙂 — THEN ask RA members if you want to extend the meeting.
[2008/04/06 14:03] You: If I do not hear RA members kvetch I will indulge my megalomania and assume Arria may make her announcement 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:03] Arria Perreault: ok
[2008/04/06 14:03] Arria Perreault: I am working for a presentation of the CDS activities in the Dreams Fair Booth and Events. We are invites. It’s only for non-commercial activities. I have discussed this with Alex and we intend to present our cultural activities. We will have one hour presentation and booth for the whole event, from 11-25 April.
[2008/04/06 14:04] Arria Perreault: I will inform citizen by notice
[2008/04/06 14:04] Beathan Vale: excellent
[2008/04/06 14:04] You: Where is it in SL, Arria? Or is there a Forum post with pointers?
[2008/04/06 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: fantastic
[2008/04/06 14:04] You: or a web URI? shrug
[2008/04/06 14:04] Arria Perreault: Not yet. You will be informed soon. I am working on
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: OK 🙂 thank you VERY much for that, sounds great – and great that we are invited. Anything else Arria?
[2008/04/06 14:05] Sonja Strom: Great – yes, I think this could be posted in the Forum under CDS events.
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:05] Sonja Strom: I did that for a Cultural Festival once.
[2008/04/06 14:05] Jamie Palisades looks for typing, sees none
[2008/04/06 14:05] Cindy Ecksol: one more thing: CDS calendar displays are now up in all three sims….check them out
[2008/04/06 14:05] Arria Perreault: the Google Calender is functioning now
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: Thanks then Arria, and good work to you 🙂 and thx Cindy
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: YAY
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:05] Arria Perreault: Thank you Cindy to filling
[2008/04/06 14:05] Sonja Strom: Where are they Cindy?
[2008/04/06 14:05] Cindy Ecksol: let me know if you have problems….and send me events!!!
====
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: RA members: do you wish to extend this meeting? say 20 mins
[2008/04/06 14:06] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/06 14:06] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/06 14:06] Cindy Ecksol: center of NFS, CN Forum and on one of the paths in AM
[2008/04/06 14:06] Beathan Vale: I am an abitrator on Tues — and still have about 2000 pages to read
[2008/04/06 14:06] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks!
[2008/04/06 14:06] Cindy Ecksol: can’t miss them if you walk…
[2008/04/06 14:06] You: Thanks but hush, Cin… . BV, that’s a “no”?
[2008/04/06 14:06] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/04/06 14:06] Beathan Vale: call it a “disinclined” for now
[2008/04/06 14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/04/06 14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “disinclined”…. hehe
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: 🙂 prin are you in favor or against 20 minute meeting extension? Only thing that’s open for discvussion just now
[2008/04/06 14:07] ThePrincess Parisi: favor
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: OK 4’s pretty good 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: BV, let’s say, stay as long as you can 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:07] Beathan Vale: I’ll stick around and then read quickly
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: NOTE no new laws to be adopted, so quorum not as urgent here
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: 🙂 ok
====
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: next item
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: 8
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: Thsi is about new bills coming down the road towards us
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: NOT intended to be detailed
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: but best we note they’re coming
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: 8a does not NEED chat because
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: it’s Beathan’s bill we just discussed
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: “tune in next week” 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: 8b
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: Moon’s post from the Guild about possible charter changes
[2008/04/06 14:09] You: Moon, do we expect that to be a proposed bill soon?
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: well, hard to say atm
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: we have to think on it not only in therms of the draft analysis
[2008/04/06 14:09] You: hmm – shoudl we set it for discussion next week, and see?
[2008/04/06 14:09] You: at RA I mean ..
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: hmmm
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: no
[2008/04/06 14:10] Moon Adamant: I want a specific advice
[2008/04/06 14:10] You: OK fair enough – but all who are interested, please see the posts (New Guild forum board)
[2008/04/06 14:10] You: yes Moon?
[2008/04/06 14:10] Moon Adamant: which I won’t get before two weeks, and which has to do with the Board’s role as Agent
[2008/04/06 14:10] You: yes?
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: well, I have to gather info on that

[2008/04/06 14:11] You: Maybe we have quick answer, maybe not, but can you state the specific question?
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: or is it too early for that also?
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: I am not an agent… so i won’t invent stuff… always ask
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: too early
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: I don’t even know if it is only a quyestion
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: OK 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: good
[2008/04/06 14:12] Moon Adamant: I think that on this matter
[2008/04/06 14:12] Moon Adamant: it’s best if we come back to you on this
[2008/04/06 14:12] Jamie Palisades notes, good – but no agenda item on THAT expected for next week
[2008/04/06 14:12] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but I have a thing regarding the exec office I need to discuss .. can we do that or not
[2008/04/06 14:12] Moon Adamant: rather than try and do futurology
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: at the end of the scheduled items Prin , yes
====
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: OK, next item
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: 8c
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: A notice from me 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: Several have told me the LRA needs to have someone to mind stuff like rules and the transscript
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: I am mulling that over – and may bring a bill next week
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: and comments are welcome informally – to me directly please, not here and now – it’s too speculative
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: (I might decide it’s not worth it, too, or should wait until we know who next LRA is)
====
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: OK? next item
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: 8d
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: 🙂 how WILL we select the dang LRA after the by-election? please NOTE
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: 1. there are bills on this – and proposed ones – and the Forum posts are linked from this meeting’s agenda
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: (so go think 🙂 )
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: 2. This is not hypothetical 🙂 we will have new 2 new RA members in a month
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: and finally 3.
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: heh
[2008/04/06 14:15] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want to add an amendment to it
[2008/04/06 14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: Some have said to me – and I have to say it’s more than one person from more than one party –
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: that no action is needed – I just get to keep it
[2008/04/06 14:15] ThePrincess Parisi: add
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: (hang on Prin)
[2008/04/06 14:15] ThePrincess Parisi: kk
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: so let me say clearly – I want this to be something that the entire RA is *as comfortable with* as it can be
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: including and new members 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: that’s why I am having this chat now
[2008/04/06 14:16] You: and I may bring a bill next week – and Prin has another one 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:16] You: good time for her to briefly mention that if she wishes
[2008/04/06 14:16] You: Prin?
[2008/04/06 14:16] Sonja Strom: Jamie, comfortable with what exactly?
[2008/04/06 14:16] ThePrincess Parisi clears her throat
[2008/04/06 14:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well…
[2008/04/06 14:16] ThePrincess Parisi: first of all even though my name is on the bill, it was very much coordinated with all factions aside from the CSDF
[2008/04/06 14:17] ThePrincess Parisi: so NuCare, and SP and DPU were all in talks about this
[2008/04/06 14:17] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs to also be coordinated with the citizens voting for chancellor though
[2008/04/06 14:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and that issue is a combined one for the LRA to have the true meaning it has now.. to lead the meetings not rule the RA
[2008/04/06 14:18] Beathan Vale: very true — given that the RA is so unruly
[2008/04/06 14:18] ThePrincess Parisi: moi?
[2008/04/06 14:18] ThePrincess Parisi: how is your bill different Jamie?
[2008/04/06 14:18] You: @Sonja : I hear your Q, waiting for others before replying
[2008/04/06 14:18] ThePrincess Parisi: oh sorry sonja
[2008/04/06 14:19] Sonja Strom: sure, not a problem 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:19] You: @Prin I am suggesting we elect the next one AFTER a by-election, and NOT yet try to force the issue of whether the LRA ALWAYS is elected after GENERAL Elections … and the reason for this is …
[2008/04/06 14:20] You: that I suspect we won’t have a strong enough community consensus to make such a major change permanently (LRA always elected) before the upcoming by-election .. but of course 🙂 I could be wrong
[2008/04/06 14:20] Jamie Palisades looks back at Prin, having answered
[2008/04/06 14:20] ThePrincess Parisi: huh? ok I don’t get it.. but
[2008/04/06 14:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you mean for this one time
[2008/04/06 14:20] ThePrincess Parisi: see.. the SC is going to maybe say we have to put Pat back in
[2008/04/06 14:20] You: yes, or maybe after all by-elections only .. Any other RA memebr comments before I answer Sonja?
[2008/04/06 14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2008/04/06 14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[2008/04/06 14:20] MT Lundquist: yes i wish to
[2008/04/06 14:20] You: I don’t know that Prin 🙂 I don’t even know who they will be 🙂 See item 8e
[2008/04/06 14:21] ThePrincess Parisi: well that is not the LRA bill
[2008/04/06 14:21] ThePrincess Parisi: it was before the exodus jamie
[2008/04/06 14:21] You: Prin? MT’s turn I think
[2008/04/06 14:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so they are not in conflict
[2008/04/06 14:21] MT Lundquist: my concern is very simple
[2008/04/06 14:21] You: Prin you’ve had your 2 mins I think? MT’s turn
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: and that is that the previous events showed that an LRA who didnt command the respect of the RA members was not effective potentially
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: however recent events have shown that and ‘elected ‘ LRA is
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: I therefore wish to support theprincess’ bill
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: end
[2008/04/06 14:23] ThePrincess Parisi: he wrote it not me
[2008/04/06 14:23] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/04/06 14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:23] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie your bill is not in lieu of ours
[2008/04/06 14:23] ThePrincess Parisi: its a completely diff matter then
[2008/04/06 14:24] Cindy Ecksol nods
[2008/04/06 14:24] You: correct – and I expect we will see both on the floor
[2008/04/06 14:24] You: and I’m thinking, next week
[2008/04/06 14:24] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 14:24] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/06 14:24] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need to add the chancellor piece to it
[2008/04/06 14:24] ThePrincess Parisi: they come hand in hand
[2008/04/06 14:24] Beathan Vale: OK — I have to run — no election committee meeting today
[2008/04/06 14:24] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: and thanks BV
[2008/04/06 14:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok bye beathan
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: those who can, stay for open mic?
[2008/04/06 14:25] MT Lundquist: bye beathan
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: @Sonja: To answer, my concern is this: we need a proper, orderly, fair LRA succession .. because the rules are (rolling eyes) horridly unclear and probably utterly contradictory. Truly — I do not know who wrote ’em, and that’s good, because if they worked for me they’d be fired. It is my personal view that elections work … a presiding officer can preside better .. even be a bit of a bully at times (smile) .. if she has the SUPPORT of the entire RA, or at least respect, reasonably wihtin the bounds of our faction system. Sonja, whether that’s a temporary or permanent change is less of concern to me — but several have suggested that a faction-appointed LRA who can override lots of RA stuff is actually *important* to the current balance of rights. I don’t see it .. but I think we need to respect and give that view a fair hearing … so I am trying to be slower about permanent change.
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: anything else NEW to be said on this one?
[2008/04/06 14:25] ThePrincess Parisi: I have a big concern ……………..regarding the exec office.
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:25] ThePrincess Parisi: not about that exactly but what is going on now and i dont knwo what to do about it
[2008/04/06 14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* to speak whenever possible
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: got it Gwyn
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: Prin – can we do that as 8f please?
[2008/04/06 14:26] Bjerkel Eerie raises hand
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: I am on 8d and think we may be done unless that’s what Gwnyn wishes to address?
[2008/04/06 14:26] ThePrincess Parisi: I hope sometime
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: Gwyn? Is this on LRA?
[2008/04/06 14:26] Sonja Strom: I have consulted the DPU membership, and the overall feeling is to be agains RA election of the LRA for reasons of the overall structural relationships in the CDS. That said, we are certainly willing to consider new possibilities.
[2008/04/06 14:27] You: 🙂 thanks, helps to know. Gwyn, you have anything on LRA selection?
[2008/04/06 14:27] You: (and Bjerkel after her)
[2008/04/06 14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just a point
[2008/04/06 14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a small one
[2008/04/06 14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually favour the idea of an LRA elected by the RA
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very much so â€” people can quote me on having suggested it before
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we should also remember that the Chancellor is elected
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the exact same way
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So â€” from my point of view it would be nice to address both issues
[2008/04/06 14:28] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed thats what i just said
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. so as not to look that the RA “electes everybody”
[2008/04/06 14:28] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you that’s all
[2008/04/06 14:28] You: Bjerkle? Is this on LRA?

[2008/04/06 14:29] ThePrincess Parisi whispers at jamie, BJ says what she wants hun
[2008/04/06 14:29] You: ?
[2008/04/06 14:29] You: Do we have a comment from Bjerkel? She raised her hand
[2008/04/06 14:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i think she crashed
[2008/04/06 14:29] You: ah
[2008/04/06 14:29] Bjerkel Eerie: I just think the RA and CDS needs to have a far ranging discussion on sustainablity and what that means in the context of a virtual world and a virtual community and the negative impacts of rapid growth on peoples sense of well being
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: ah ha 🙂 thx – and I *think* that may come up in the context of Greener SIms
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: in – hm – around a month
[2008/04/06 14:30] ThePrincess Parisi: it did……but bj.. this is not a real place so we dont make pollution
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: so I encourage you to think of *additional* stuff to discuss on that general topic – AND
[2008/04/06 14:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean you could
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: 🙂 we may have a candidate debate 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:31] You: So Bjerk, consider strafing your candidates then, smile
[2008/04/06 14:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean you can make pollution if you wanna but i dont think anyone will buy it
[2008/04/06 14:31] Bjerkel Eerie: the average avatar uses more electricity than the average rl brazilian
[2008/04/06 14:31] You: Gwyn, do you think you can hold your cnflicts issues together long enough to tell me if tere’s a strong likelihood of the SC (for appropriaet subset) doing a debate? Or is that PIO territory?
[2008/04/06 14:32] ThePrincess Parisi: against double prims then i am sure
[2008/04/06 14:32] Jamie Palisades grins wearily, head spinning, but grateful for Bj’s comments
[2008/04/06 14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks
[2008/04/06 14:32] MT Lundquist smiles
[2008/04/06 14:32] You: hm well – Bjerkely – again, thanks – and let’s get that Q into the election debates
[2008/04/06 14:32] You: sorry for the spelling
[2008/04/06 14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the SC should not do debates in any case)
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: OK – I will take it up with our esteemed executive then 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: thx
[2008/04/06 14:33] Bjerkel Eerie: with six thousand Islands, sl is resposible for a lot of global warming
[2008/04/06 14:33] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: BJerk, time limit for now
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: I think you will find many agree – just not a big agenda item for today
====
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: so, thanks – and next item
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: 8e
[2008/04/06 14:33] Jamie Palisades smiles wolfishly
[2008/04/06 14:34] You: Just a note. I expect to propose legislation next week
[2008/04/06 14:34] You: all comments welcome
[2008/04/06 14:34] ThePrincess Parisi looks down
[2008/04/06 14:34] You: I will get it into the “legislative discussion” boards by wednesday or thursday
[2008/04/06 14:34] ThePrincess Parisi: well we have talked at length jamie so you know how NuCare feels
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: and may just start a thread earlier – as I think public discussion will help
[2008/04/06 14:35] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: any other quick coments on that? If not, I’m on 8f 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am just happy you are taking your time to do it
====
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: 8f Public referenda – and the point is not to debate at this time – but rather –
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: for planning: We have bills lying arouind and several factions with views on this
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: so
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: is someone gonna do something? (smile)
[2008/04/06 14:36] ThePrincess Parisi: ok good
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: “No” is OK too, just trying to see it coming for planning purposes
[2008/04/06 14:36] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 14:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we should look at it
[2008/04/06 14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “No” 😉
[2008/04/06 14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/04/06 14:37] Sonja Strom: I definitely think we should implement a Referenda structure.
[2008/04/06 14:37] Sonja Strom: Initiatives would be good too, but these could be a public extension of the possibility to have Referenda questions.
[2008/04/06 14:38] You: hm – OK, well, then, fair warning – someone needs to kick this back into activity. I will ask several of the original proponents. And I expect robust debate 😀 And I would like us to hear from all sides. So THIS one we should schedule in advance, if possible, I think
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: why dont you create a committee Jamie
[2008/04/06 14:38] Sonja Strom: Naturally 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is free now
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: he did so well on commerce
[2008/04/06 14:39] Jamie Palisades would suggest a commission, but was underwhelemed with the quality of the New Citizens debate last year so is suspicious of that device.
[2008/04/06 14:39] Sonja Strom: Cindy, are you interested in this issue?
[2008/04/06 14:39] ThePrincess Parisi: baby and bathwater come to mind
[2008/04/06 14:39] Sonja Strom: (she and I have talked about it before in conversation…)
[2008/04/06 14:39] Cindy Ecksol: yes…
[2008/04/06 14:39] You: Hmm well here is an idea – it would make another good candidate debate question. I’d like us to get passed “high time” and “ruinous change” and talk about the *merits* somewhere (weak smile)
[2008/04/06 14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/04/06 14:40] You: *passed > past
[2008/04/06 14:40] Jon Seattle: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:40] You: I’m not personally as adverse as – some of my friends – to fundamental change to the CDS structure – but dang, kids, we ought to know what we are doing
[2008/04/06 14:40] Sonja Strom: In my view, it would be a perfect structure for the CDS to go forward with the issues around adding a 4th sim.
[2008/04/06 14:40] Cindy Ecksol thinks jamie has some amazing ideas 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:40] You: Sonja you posted on that I think
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: yes she did
[2008/04/06 14:41] Sonja Strom: right
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but see that isn’t what I see referendums for
[2008/04/06 14:41] Justice Soothsayer: sorry, have to go. Thanks for a well-run meeting.
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: Here’s Sonja’s connection between the two FYI:
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1703#p10503
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its a given the fourth sim is done ……
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: Ah. Thanks, and thank you for coming.
[2008/04/06 14:41] MT Lundquist: and I think we need to sort referenda properly before we use it if at all
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but the details are too bulky for a ref.
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: details
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: OK – so – let’s close that for the moment, but note that it’s dormant until officially awakened by a motion
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion
====
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: next item 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: 8g
[2008/04/06 14:42] Moon Adamant: I am sorry, mr LRA – may I make a question?
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: Prin – You had one more new one – something about the executive? And please assume all my gentle comments about personalities still apply.
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: Yes jamie
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: I do
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: hang on Moon – Prin’s turn please
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: I have a problem with asking the exec office to get money
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I have twice with things I paid ten times the reimbursement for.. asked for that
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: now the guided tour
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I ask
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I get nothing
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I’m not paying it out of my pocket again
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: what is the process
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: This, for clarity, is about getting a personal reimbursement for buying something for CDS that the government asked for?
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: if this happens to me I assume it hapens for eveyone else
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: Prin? Did I restate it correctly?
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. it was budgeted 6k
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: then I will inquire
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: and report back to you
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and I was given the go ahead here
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and as well events I spent my own 10 k
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: and If I get no answer, I will inform you of my next steps 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: was supposed to get a measly 900l
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and didn’t even get that
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: and thank you for your own personal acts to keep us moving forward at your own expense
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well I dont mind .. but if it happens to me, it happens to everyone I suppose
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: Moon? you had something?
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: I think, with my promise to get an answer, that’s all on that one, hm?
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and thats not good
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 14:45] Moon Adamant: just asking at what time are you thinking to adjourn?
[2008/04/06 14:45] ThePrincess Parisi: soon
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: we’re almost there 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:45] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: OK
====
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: thank you all for a patient meeting – here’s what we have left

[2008/04/06 14:45] You: thank you all for a patient meeting – here’s what we have left
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: 10 open discussion
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: I’d like to see if anyone has something to say today, before we adjourn, if we may
[2008/04/06 14:46] ThePrincess Parisi: I sort of do
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: any others?
[2008/04/06 14:46] ThePrincess Parisi: If no one else does
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: let’s get the list
[2008/04/06 14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/04/06 14:46] ThePrincess Parisi: I’ll go last
[2008/04/06 14:46] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed!
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: OK, GL and TPP
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: no one else?
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: Go Gwyn pls
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, there was an invitation to the CDS
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to be present at the Second Life Fifth Birthday commemorations
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also,
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the Dreams Community Fair.
[2008/04/06 14:47] ThePrincess Parisi: wow!
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve redirected those requests to the Chancellor and PIO
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the Dreams Fair is hapening sooner; SL5B is in June I believe)
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: That’s pretty cool. Thanks for letting us know. It sounds like Arria’s already addressing the Dreams fair, as she reported.
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I wanted to ask if the RA will need to set apart a budget for this
[2008/04/06 14:48] ThePrincess Parisi: how many ppl can go
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (good)
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: SL4B was a great booth-type show-off opportunity
[2008/04/06 14:48] Sonja Strom: When is it?
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL5B is 20-23 June
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: We should get a bunch of volunteers going, with Arria’s blessing, on what we’d want to highlight for SL5B maybe
[2008/04/06 14:48] ThePrincess Parisi: we need that and Cindy you need to get involved with the info piece please
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: thanks Gwyn – that’s all for now?
[2008/04/06 14:48] ThePrincess Parisi: a committee maybe or something
[2008/04/06 14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, Princess, I wondered about that
[2008/04/06 14:49] ThePrincess Parisi: this is very important we need it coordinated well
[2008/04/06 14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, Jamie, that’s all
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:49] ThePrincess Parisi: personally i dont think the PIO office can handle it
[2008/04/06 14:49] ThePrincess Parisi: alone
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: I will ask Alexi to report back to us on that
[2008/04/06 14:49] Moon Adamant: why not?

====
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: Prin – you had something? And then we are done for the day
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: I advise against debates about the PIO just now 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:49] Moon Adamant: /m e shuts up
[2008/04/06 14:49] Cindy Ecksol: lol, prin! I am part of the PIO office 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: yes and I said you need to get on the info with them
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and three ppl cant do this job alone
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: its not incompetence I am saying, its too much wrok thats all
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: a call out for volunteers
[2008/04/06 14:50] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:50] You: Prin is this your “new item”, or are we still on Gwyn’s?
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: ok well what I wanted to say was not as important as Gwyns
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and these sorts of things are important to our rep in the community that’s all
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do it right
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do it righ t thats all… and get more than the PIO involved
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/04/06 14:52] Jamie Palisades looks querulously at the nice colleague who is keeping us from adjoruning and wonders .. anything else that is more important than his Sunday afternoon Tequila-soaked immolation
[2008/04/06 14:52] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:52] You: OK then
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: mp
[2008/04/06 14:52] Sonja Strom: It seems to me that this would fall within the office of the Chancellor, but maybe that makes no difference…
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: its too big to leave there in my opinion
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: its a community wide issue
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: and affair
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: Sonja that’s a fair question for us to take up, and I suggest that it start with me asking the Chancellor and PIO 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: affair
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: and i’m tired
[2008/04/06 14:53] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie!
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: Do any RA members object to us adjourning now?
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/04/06 14:53] Sonja Strom: no
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: (Note next meeting changes to 9 am SLT Saturday)
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: bless you
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: MT wants to go all night – but he’s an iron man ..
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: mine
[2008/04/06 14:53] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/06 14:54] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:54] You: OK, we are adjourned, and thank you very much all – good job
[2008/04/06 14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
[2008/04/06 14:54] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!
[2008/04/06 14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:55] You: Moon, I owe you a chat if you want it, late as it is GMT

[end] Text of “Celebrating our Voulenteers” notecard – adopted at meeting

proposal
by theprincessparisi on Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:23 am

In order to make sure that the history of CDS is not forgotten, and especially that the people who have given so much of themselves to make CDS are duly honored and celebrated.,I would like to suggest that we begin a formal process to do just that.
———————————————
In the process of Mizou researching and writing the history for The CDS Guided Tour she said she envisions a physical space as well in NFS where the history of CDS can be displayed. Along with this it would be appropriate to initiate a sort of CDS Hall of Fame……a place where the individuals who have given so much of themselves can be honored and their accomplishments celebrated. This “hall of fame” for lack of a better tern, which i hope someone suggests. Could be initiated with the grand opening of the guided tour. And perhaps the three initial members could be decided by the RA or SC or both. Subsequently, the chancellor would appoint a new member and his/her rationale to the Hall of Fame at the end of the term.

This could be formally done along with a ceremony to “pass the baton” so to speak, and perhaps literally to the newly elected chancellor at the Inagural Event.
It would be nice to formalize the transistion of one chancellor to another .

1. A physical space in NFS where CDS history is displayed.
2. A space for a CDS Hall of Gratitude.
3. That the initial members are selected by the RA and SC
4. That the process for selecting new members is a duty of the outgoing chancelor and
5. A regular transition event of one chancellor to another formally inducts the new “hall of honor” member.

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 12, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:

1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 0912h00 – 09h15)

1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & locations
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS
2. Report from Chancellor (15 mins.: 09h15-09h30)
3. Commerce Commission recommendations (20 mins.: 09h30-09h50)
— /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
4. LRA Bill(s) (15 mins.: 09h50-10h05)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
5. Private Development Proposal (15 mins.: 10h05-10h20)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721

NEW ITEMS
6. Public Referenda (15 mins.: 10h20-10h35)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1715#p10506
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667
7. Conflict of Interest, etc. (15 mins.: 10h35-10h50)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
8. Other?
9. Open Discussion (10 mins.: 10h50-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00

Summary

12 April 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1794
===
[09:22] Called to order.
[09:22] 1a – Call for assent to recording
[09:23] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified.
[09:26] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:27] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:28] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
— Staying with 09h00 SLT on Saturday, for 19 and 26 April
[09:37] 1f – Consent agenda. No items.
[09:39] 2 – Chancellor report.
— Set recurring time for this report: last meeting of each month, starting 26 April
— Discussed consulates/relations with other sims/micronations [09:41] — Webportal plans, funding request [09:56] [10:10] 3 – Commerce Commission bill(s).
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until next meeting (19 April), when sponsor (MT Lundquist) is present
[10:19] 4 – LRA bill(s)
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until next meeting (19 April)
[10:21] 5 – Private Development bill
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until 26 April, when sponsor (B Vale) is present; changes expected based on collaboration with Guild postings
[10:30] 6 – Public Referenda bill.
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until next meeting (19 April).
[10:31] 7- Conflict of interest bill(s)
— Citizen bill from PMRobert Walpole discussed [10:34] — Compound proposal, and J Palisades alternative, to be reintroduced as several distinct bills so each can be evaluated separately
[11:03] {8} – Open discussion
[11:06] Adjourned.

Transcript

====
Transcript of 12 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/04/12 8:59] Second Life: Too many instant messages. Delivery capped.
[2008/04/12 8:59] Teleport completed from
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/196/185/179
[2008/04/12 9:00] PMRobert Walpole gave you Non-Cumulation of Mandates Act (2. Draft) – PMRobert Walpole.
[2008/04/12 9:04] Sonja Strom: hi Jamie 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:04] Sonja Strom: I thought so.
[2008/04/12 9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Dnate! 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:07] Dnate Mars: hi
[2008/04/12 9:07] Sonja Strom: Looks like a small group so far.
[2008/04/12 9:08] You: Good morning, I’m in IM with some of the others, seeing if we are going to get a quorum 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:08] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/04/12 9:08] Sonja Strom: Will you have a notecard-giver?
[2008/04/12 9:09] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed!
[2008/04/12 9:11] You: well I am asking Prin to join us – I do not see Beathan on line
[2008/04/12 9:11] Sonja Strom: hmm
[2008/04/12 9:12] You: And I know that MT’s offline – you’ll recall that he said he would be absent this week due to travel
[2008/04/12 9:12] Sonja Strom: Hi Robert!
[2008/04/12 9:12] PMRobert Walpole: Cheers all
[2008/04/12 9:12] PMRobert Walpole: Another DPU meeting? 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:12] Sonja Strom: I don’t know why, but I can’t get my IM window to work now…
[2008/04/12 9:13] You: Apparently. You’re the gentleman who sent that citizen bill in.
[2008/04/12 9:13] Sonja Strom: can you see my typing?
[2008/04/12 9:13] You: Are you DPU also, in that avatar Mr Walpole?
[2008/04/12 9:13] You: yes Sonja I can
[2008/04/12 9:14] PMRobert Walpole: Indeed. Thank you for your confirmation. Did you also get my Second draft ?
[2008/04/12 9:14] You: also, Sonja my IM *seems* to work – I have been conversing
[2008/04/12 9:14] You: Just this morning
[2008/04/12 9:14] PMRobert Walpole: Ah thank you.
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: Good morning Prin, and thank you for coming
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: I see we have quorum technically, though a small one it is being 3 out of 5 seated –
[2008/04/12 9:15] PMRobert Walpole: Yes I am a DPU member
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: A moment while I check again on the others I’d thought we would see – Beathan & Alexicon
[2008/04/12 9:16] Sonja Strom: me too.
[2008/04/12 9:16] Sonja Strom: Your email was clear.
[2008/04/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: where did dnate go
[2008/04/12 9:18] Sonja Strom: Don’t know.
[2008/04/12 9:18] You: well then
[2008/04/12 9:18] You: Here’s my suggestion
[2008/04/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well i thought it was today at noon
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: until last night
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan might too
[2008/04/12 9:19] Sonja Strom: today at noon?
[2008/04/12 9:19] You: We are quorate under our own rules, …
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: fine
[2008/04/12 9:19] You: oops – listening to Prin first
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: you better
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: about what
[2008/04/12 9:20] You: hmm. It was my impression that we announced and discussed the time change last week with all RA members present.
[2008/04/12 9:20] Sonja Strom: mine too.
[2008/04/12 9:20] You: Let me check that – it would be unfair to proceed now, if that was not so.
[2008/04/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: no you did i just didnt read it
[2008/04/12 9:20] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/12 9:20] You: ah good then – thx – saves me the time
[2008/04/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i just thought it was the same time for suome reason
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: my fault
[2008/04/12 9:21] You: then let’s proceed with quorum present, skipping items where there’s either a necessary protagnoist, or some other eason to wait
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: then lets go on
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: if we have quaroum
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah………
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: nope but i want it clear that alexicon is shirking again
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: im really upset with the chancleoors office jamie
[2008/04/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: are we recorded yet?
[2008/04/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a question to you about alexicon, jamie
—-
[2008/04/12 9:22] You: We’re called to order then – and yes (small smile) we took the precaution to adopt a rule clarifying quorum, which has not been challenged, and under which we are in fact quorate with 3 of the 5 seated members present
[2008/04/12 9:22] You: yes we’re in session. A Q before we begin, Prin?
[2008/04/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: did you talk to him about why no one inclueding me……..is getting reimbursed and / or paid for budget items approved.. and where is he on the budget at all
[2008/04/12 9:22] You: 1a
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: would all present please assent to recording. I so assent.
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: he was to get back to us on the project with teh website probposal
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/12 9:23] Sonja Strom: I assent.
[2008/04/12 9:23] PMRobert Walpole: aye
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: prin I have a report on that, which will come up on the agenda 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: wtf is going on with him and its gotta be fixed.. and what did he say
—-
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: 1b
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: approve agenda 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: it is posted here:
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1774
[2008/04/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i read it
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: I will suggest …
[2008/04/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: ok, and MT said I can either talk about commerce for him or wait
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: that we skip the Chancellor report if Alexi is not present – though I did confirm it with him earlier this week
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: .. and also, there may be some items where we wish to wait
[2008/04/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we should at least discuss the controversial isse with the commerce commission in MTs absesence
[2008/04/12 9:25] You: let’s see when we get to them
[2008/04/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:25] You: let me also note we have a rule (as of last month) permitting citizens to proposed bills …
[2008/04/12 9:25] You: … and we have one from Mr Walpole, who’s present, and which appears later …
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: … on the agenda (and I think he will have a suggested update for us then)
[2008/04/12 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: let me se e if i can get any citizens here
[2008/04/12 9:26] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you for putting it on the agenda sir
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: any proposed changes to the agenda for now?
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: hearing none, let’s take it as approved, and adjust on the fly, if needed
—-
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: 1c
[2008/04/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: its fine with me
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: Routine announcement: if anyone wishes to speak on an agenda item they should so indicate – and I will assume Mr Walpole’s on the list for his proposal
[2008/04/12 9:27] Sonja Strom: I didn’t look through all of your links — is the agenda the same as what you sent out earlier?
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: thx Prin
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: yes
[2008/04/12 9:27] PMRobert Walpole: Indeed
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: yes Sonja, it’s consistent with the e-mail on – hm – Wed or Thur
[2008/04/12 9:27] Sonja Strom: ok
—-
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: 1d then
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
—-
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: 1e
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: future RA meetings
[2008/04/12 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:29] You: 😛 i am not feeling good about our results today …
[2008/04/12 9:29] Sonja Strom: right…
[2008/04/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: MT would normally be here
[2008/04/12 9:29] You: hm
[2008/04/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and this time is good for him but this week he had a atypical rl conflict
[2008/04/12 9:29] You: should we stay with this same slot next week, and see?
[2008/04/12 9:29] Sonja Strom: I have a question about that.
[2008/04/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: id ask beathan
[2008/04/12 9:30] You: sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:30] Sonja Strom: If we did want to have referendum questions on the April ballot, would they still be able to make it in time if the first time we debate them is next week?
[2008/04/12 9:30] You: good Q
[2008/04/12 9:31] You: I *think* Arria is plannig a debate – hm – let me check calendar
[2008/04/12 9:31] Sonja Strom: Jon is in-world, I will IM him.
[2008/04/12 9:31] You: next weekend
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: Sonja, it seems to me obvious that any referendum must be on the ballot by the time the ballot opens 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: now
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: the SC owns the ballot process
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: and has seemed in the past to me to be somewhat hostile to referenda …
[2008/04/12 9:33] You: I could be wrong, smile, shrug
[2008/04/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the questions you handed out sonja.. that would be binding and over turn what the RA voted on already
[2008/04/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i can tell you nuCARE wont support that
[2008/04/12 9:33] You: but I’d say we need to get it passed soon, if you want to hand it to them in time for them to deliberate and, maybe, approve it. I point out to you that any constitutional amendment is thought by some of our more consevartive factions to require a minimum of 5 votes
[2008/04/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: all factions have stated in manifestos that they want a new sim.. and we voted on a theme that is conssitent with the master paln
[2008/04/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i see no point in making it go through a vote and all unless its to stall
[2008/04/12 9:34] You: hm
[2008/04/12 9:34] You: let’s focus on next RA meeting for the moment
[2008/04/12 9:34] Sonja Strom: I just sent Jon an IM to ask him that question.
[2008/04/12 9:35] You: sonja, do your plans to introduce bills give us ny guidance on when you’d want us to meet next?
[2008/04/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: well we arent suppoting it in its form right now
[2008/04/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so if you need us its not a go ….how many votes do you need
[2008/04/12 9:35] You: OK – ahem 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:35] You: let’s do that in its ownut agenda item
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: for now
[2008/04/12 9:36] Sonja Strom: He said if we were to decide next week to put them on the April ballot, that he could still include them.
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: may I assume we are OK to set the next RA meetign one week from today, same time?
[2008/04/12 9:36] Sonja Strom: So I am OK with talking about this more next week.
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: at 9 am SLT next Saturday?
[2008/04/12 9:36] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: I will take that as agreed and move on then
—-
[2008/04/12 9:37] You: 1f
[2008/04/12 9:37] You: consent items – I have none – anyone?
[2008/04/12 9:37] Sonja Strom: Sorry, what is a consent item?
[2008/04/12 9:38] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexicon!
[2008/04/12 9:38] Sonja Strom: Welcome
[2008/04/12 9:38] Alexicon Kurka: Hi all
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: under our rules Sonja, we set aside time for any quick noncontroversial items
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: Hi Alexi – a moment please
[2008/04/12 9:38] Sonja Strom: ok, no I don’t have any.
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: Sonja, we have none this week
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: Excellent timing – Alexi please assent on the record to being recorded in our transcript
[2008/04/12 9:39] Alexicon Kurka: do I have to click on an object?
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: 2
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: no just say I agree 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:39] Alexicon Kurka: I agree
[2008/04/12 9:40] You: And it’s time for the Chancellor’s Report 🙂 note this is set by our rules as a regular item – once a month I think?
[2008/04/12 9:40] Alexicon Kurka: OK is it my time now?
[2008/04/12 9:40] You: yes
[2008/04/12 9:41] Alexicon Kurka: I suggest to keep the chancellor’s hours for the last weekend of each month
[2008/04/12 9:41] Alexicon Kurka: but this time I messed my chance so we can do it today
[2008/04/12 9:41] You: OK, starting in 2 weeks, then?
[2008/04/12 9:41] Alexicon Kurka: I have two issues I want to talk with you about
[2008/04/12 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: 1.- Consulates
[2008/04/12 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: I have had contacts with Rome and Caledon about it
[2008/04/12 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: we can start with these two locations soon if we wish to
[2008/04/12 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: The idea is that we will rent a commercial area and put there our communication items
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: Rome: as they do it on CNB allready it is more logical to begin there, althoug there is not much similarity exept the theme of the sim
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: Caledon: this is a more interesting sim group for CDS
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: but
[2008/04/12 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: Roma or Rome?
[2008/04/12 9:44] You: hsould we hold questions for the end of your talk, or ask you questions now?
[2008/04/12 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: Roman Empire.. is rome.. mikeD streeter?
[2008/04/12 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: or roma.. of torin
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: we still have the chance that they will drawn us instead og us geting some of their citizens
[2008/04/12 9:45] Alexicon Kurka: Roma, torin
[2008/04/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked him this six months ago
[2008/04/12 9:45] Alexicon Kurka: so I need the ideas and OK of the RA to take final steps
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: hm – OK, Alexi seems ready for questions about consulates
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: I have two
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: anyone else?
[2008/04/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a done deal and its already beendone
[2008/04/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: what is your concern?
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: eh?
[2008/04/12 9:46] You: what is a done deal, and who says so? `Sorry, thought we were getting report from the executive?
[2008/04/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: this is something we have already done, fems land for example has this
[2008/04/12 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: it is mostly for Caledon, I worry about the effect on us
[2008/04/12 9:46] You: *sigh*
[2008/04/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: of putting a info box there and them reciprocating?
[2008/04/12 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: they will do it here as well, unless we don’t let them to
[2008/04/12 9:47] You: ok, let me ask Alexi a few questions please, for clarity
[2008/04/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: that is someting that we have already done.. if you were wroried about that then putting Andalus’s events in the forum would be a thing that is more worrisome than caledon
[2008/04/12 9:47] You: 1. Does this activity as YOU see it Alexicon require RA approval, or legislation, or budget change?
[2008/04/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: andalus is also a democracy
[2008/04/12 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: we are talking about more permanent steps here tP
[2008/04/12 9:47] You: Prin, please wait
[2008/04/12 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: It requires some budget
[2008/04/12 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: so I need your approval
[2008/04/12 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi holds up her hand
[2008/04/12 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: no legislation
[2008/04/12 9:48] You: OK – so when you are ready, you will bring us a budget, yet?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: we are talking about 2500 per month
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: how much budget and for what.. 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:49] You: I will hold my second Q until ThePrincess has hers. Prin?
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: omg for what?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: for two locations
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: rent of 250 per week per location
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that for rental.. did you find out that torin will let you rent …………..for that
[2008/04/12 9:49] You: so we would *rent* space, just like people rent ithere, yes?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: yes 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: torin said yes?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and what exactly do you put in the space in roma
[2008/04/12 9:50] Alexicon Kurka: the only problem with ROme is that if we want a nice place we have to wait
[2008/04/12 9:50] You: any other questions (noting we still do not have a detailed proposal to approve), Prin?
[2008/04/12 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: you will wait forever
[2008/04/12 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and in caledon………..
[2008/04/12 9:50] Sonja Strom: I have one.
[2008/04/12 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i think there are plenty of places that we can set out boxes ith info and LM givers that are free
[2008/04/12 9:50] You: Prin, Alexi’s time is 2/3rds up, let’s let others ask. Sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: for ppl who already have stalls, alexicon,you have a stall in roma.. canyou please put one prim for our community
[2008/04/12 9:51] Alexicon Kurka: where do you have a place Sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i will put one in Rome
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and you can put them in featherman and novatron
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the money is unnecessary ..
[2008/04/12 9:51] Sonja Strom: Have we/you talked with them about exchanging consulates? I mean, could we provide them space here in exchange for our space there?
[2008/04/12 9:51] Alexicon Kurka: So we may use your own plots tP and Sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have one prim in roma?
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: Possibly.
[2008/04/12 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: mine.. yes
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: But we could also give them space in the new development.
[2008/04/12 9:52] You: This is not a legislative discussion yet, just pre-planning 🙂 When Alexicon has a *proposal* and budget he will bring it back here. Alexi has 4 minutes left and another topic?
[2008/04/12 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: alexicon can you put a box and LM giver in your place in Roma
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: We are working on the “Altenburg” area of Neufreistadt right now.
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: Also we are working on a 4th sim.
[2008/04/12 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: I dont have any prims left thePrinces I already have an LM giver
[2008/04/12 9:53] You: “embassy row” Sonja? 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: one prim?
[2008/04/12 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: lmao
[2008/04/12 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: Caledon was willing to speak about exchange, Torin not
[2008/04/12 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: take something out alexicon
[2008/04/12 9:53] You: Alexi, if you had a second topic, probably best to mention it. 3 minutes left
[2008/04/12 9:53] Sonja Strom: Maybe ~ ~
[2008/04/12 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: so my proposal for a rent budget is approved or not?
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: make it
[2008/04/12 9:54] Sonja Strom: If it is really needed, I could offer some of my land – especially if it were intended to be temporary until a more permanent place would be found.
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: its nto apporoved…
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote no
[2008/04/12 9:54] Alexicon Kurka: I mentioned an estimated 2500 per month for consulates renting
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i vote no
[2008/04/12 9:54] You: RA members, we are out of time for Alexi’s report, and had planned to move on to CommerceCommission (next item) at 9:30, 25 minutes ago. Do you wish to extend this item now, or not?
[2008/04/12 9:55] Sonja Strom: I do.
[2008/04/12 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: next item for alexicon?
[2008/04/12 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/12 9:55] You: As do I, for 5 minutes.
[2008/04/12 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: so only thePrincess votes today?
[2008/04/12 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: lol
[2008/04/12 9:55] Sonja Strom: Has a motion been made?
[2008/04/12 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: Please help me with the procedure Jammie
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: Yes. We’d need a motion. Alexi, I suspect we don’t have enough info to approve $L2500 right now; can you post more, so we can read it for next week?
[2008/04/12 9:56] Alexicon Kurka: OK
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: or do yo have a reason why we need to vote this wek?
[2008/04/12 9:56] Alexicon Kurka: next is the webportal
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: OK, thx
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: 4 minutes
[2008/04/12 9:57] Alexicon Kurka: we are now close to a point of starting to build it
[2008/04/12 9:57] Sonja Strom: I really do want to support this effort.
[2008/04/12 9:57] Sonja Strom: However, it would be better if we found a way to avoid this expense.
[2008/04/12 9:57] Alexicon Kurka: design and content structuring is very far now
[2008/04/12 9:57] Sonja Strom: YAY!
[2008/04/12 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: where is the proposal? and budget
[2008/04/12 9:59] Alexicon Kurka: my first idea involved a hosting of 100$us per month and a website building of around the 4000$US which I would donate to the CDS. My last idea is a hosting of $10US per month and a website of $1500 which I will still donate to the CDS
[2008/04/12 9:59] You: I think Alexi is still typing and reporting
[2008/04/12 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: we need details of why and what
[2008/04/12 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: MT said he would help you with a proper proposal many weeks ago
[2008/04/12 9:59] Sonja Strom: yes, it looks like he is having an “SL experience”
[2008/04/12 10:00] You: Alexicon, will we receive a specific budget and report from you, or are you asking for some approval now?
[2008/04/12 10:00] Alexicon Kurka: 1.- nobody was happy about me beeing ready to make such a big donation, 2.- my RL has become too busy to be able to support such a time investment for myself
[2008/04/12 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: a donation? of what? your time so you can be paid, that is not a donation
[2008/04/12 10:01] Alexicon Kurka: I do a lot of corporate accounts RL, that is my living thePrincess
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: donation means you give something for nothing in return
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: well then you want to work for cds thats differnt
[2008/04/12 10:01] You: Prin. Wait until he;s done please
[2008/04/12 10:01] Alexicon Kurka: if I work for CDS I cannot work for other projects
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: so you want us to pay you ?
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i am clarifying
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: To avoid this discussion I propose to donate the site
[2008/04/12 10:02] You: Ultimately that’s what I want to know too 🙂 is there a budget request, or will you come back to us with one?
[2008/04/12 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a proper proposal the way we asked for this…….many weeks ago
[2008/04/12 10:02] You: there will still be a hosting fee, right?
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: so no budget request
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: I do not wish to host the website myself
[2008/04/12 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: he already did this and we asked for a proposal
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: so there will be a regular cheap account in USA
[2008/04/12 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: you have not given us a proposal alexicon
[2008/04/12 10:03] You: alexi, thissounds like a report, but not a requestfro action – which is fine. Do YOU think that RA needs to take any action to support the webportal?
[2008/04/12 10:04] Alexicon Kurka: So to summurise, I need an approval for opening a Typo3 hosting account at siteground
[2008/04/12 10:04] You: ah
[2008/04/12 10:04] Alexicon Kurka: (the rest was for your information)
[2008/04/12 10:04] You: at what cost? and has Sudane offered an opinion?
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: Sudane was OK already with the 100$US proposition
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: so she has no problems with the 10$ one
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: it was the RA that found the budget too high
[2008/04/12 10:05] You: Ok, then I;d say, RA can and should appove the $10US / mnth expense for now, as relatively minimal
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: so I come now with a lower proposition
[2008/04/12 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need a rwitten proposal and have the ppl who know this area better to look at it
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: if we learnin a few months that it’s a problem, we can make alternate plans 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:06] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: Prin, I hear you, but my own inclination would be to approve it
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: SOnja?
[2008/04/12 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: not til i know why no one else gets money that is approved
[2008/04/12 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i am personally owed by / through the chancellor more than that
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: (it’s Alexi’s job to make sure we have good arrangements, not outs, an dthe cost/risk seems too low for us to fret)
[2008/04/12 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: im not approving one dime fo rhim til i know what its going on
[2008/04/12 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote no
[2008/04/12 10:07] You: Sonja, we will do nothing at this meeting unless you want to move to approve the expense for now
[2008/04/12 10:07] You: 🙂 too early to vote
[2008/04/12 10:07] You: no motion
[2008/04/12 10:08] Sonja Strom: no motion
[2008/04/12 10:08] You: OK then – it needs to wait a week
[2008/04/12 10:08] You: and Alexi, if you could post more info on this I thikn it will help
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: and also
[2008/04/12 10:09] Alexicon Kurka: In two weeks we have the next chancellors meeting
[2008/04/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: how about the rest of the budget?
[2008/04/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: hi fem
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: 🙂 working on that too
[2008/04/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: say i assent to be recorded
[2008/04/12 10:09] Alexicon Kurka: there are no changes in the rest of the budget, and Sudane gives monthly reports now
[2008/04/12 10:09] Feminist Expedition: hi prin 🙂 hello all 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: Prin, the rules & process around the budget are – underwhelming
[2008/04/12 10:09] PMRobert Walpole: Hello
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: I am chatting with Sudane about our maybe doing a little more formally in RA about that
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: OK
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: Alexi, done for now?
[2008/04/12 10:10] Alexicon Kurka: yes thank you
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: thank you – and next exec report in 2 weeks
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: next item
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[2008/04/12 10:10] You: 3
[2008/04/12 10:10] Alexicon Kurka: you will excuse me for now
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: would Femi please assent to being recorded
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: for our transcript
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: (and welcome)
[2008/04/12 10:10] Feminist Expedition: yup, that’s fine
[2008/04/12 10:10] Feminist Expedition: thx 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: 3 is commerce comission
[2008/04/12 10:11] You: Prin? You ready on this, without MT the author?
[2008/04/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: well MT posted the results on the forum
[2008/04/12 10:11] You: (see URI listed in today’s agenda)
[2008/04/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and the one item that is controversial is the ultimate decision after other steps .. to take land away that is commerical and not being used as such
[2008/04/12 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i propose that we just discuss that and let MT do the report proper next week
[2008/04/12 10:12] You: Seems wise
[2008/04/12 10:12] You: I do have a Q about that myself
[2008/04/12 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i posted on my opnion today
[2008/04/12 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: and it is
[2008/04/12 10:13] You: Did anyone consider a subset approach (no confiscation of current owners, but a covenant change for the parcels next time they change hands)?
[2008/04/12 10:13] You: *sunset
[2008/04/12 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the covenent says no w its commerical
[2008/04/12 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and i think personally thats enough
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if its clear in teh covenent that its commerical land, then its commerical land, and it is
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i think personally we need to try to sort out why its not working that way now…if someone wants help to make it commerical, we help them
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if they refuse help, take it
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: pay them
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: wh/ever
[2008/04/12 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: but ppl complain we have no commerical activitiy then tie the govts hands to make that happen
[2008/04/12 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant have it both ways
[2008/04/12 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:15] You: hm – Prin have you proposed changes to the Commission draft, or (just for my understanding) are you speaking in favor of it as written?
[2008/04/12 10:16] Jamie Palisades looks for more typing …?
[2008/04/12 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: I think that at some point we have to have the option, and it was my virew of the commission, which had great participation, that there was that sense too, that in order for us to have thriving commerce the land deemed commericial has to be
[2008/04/12 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: used that way
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: should be procedures in the cov., re land not used that is specified commercial…
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: ?
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: that was a q 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: they say its commerical
[2008/04/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: they say that
[2008/04/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: if you buy commerical and it says it has to be used as commerical already
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: but need to give consequences of non-appropriate use…
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: in my view
[2008/04/12 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its clear
[2008/04/12 10:18] Feminist Expedition: then, it’s set up to take it back…
[2008/04/12 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: it says you have to comply with the community’s rules
[2008/04/12 10:18] Feminist Expedition: k
[2008/04/12 10:18] You: hmm – we are not going to have an action item today – so let’s keep the discussion to 10 mins? Prin, you’ve had a fairly long time to speak. Any others? Our rules suggest speaking in turn, 2 mins or less each
[2008/04/12 10:18] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: Let’s put further thoughts on the Forum then –
[2008/04/12 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: 4
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: LRA bills
[2008/04/12 10:20] You: I suggest we hold this one over until next week
[2008/04/12 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: k
[2008/04/12 10:20] You: Really needs all RA members to have input, I think
[2008/04/12 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: think so
[2008/04/12 10:20] You: and next weeek, Prin, one of you who crafted that original LRA bill can present it?
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: good
[2008/04/12 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: MT can
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: next item then, good
—-
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: 5
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: Private Development
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: This was mostly Beathan’s bill
[2008/04/12 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we should still discuss it
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: and Guild plans to bring charter changes but not for another week orthree
[2008/04/12 10:22] You: OK, let’s take 5 mins, see if it gets us anything on discussisn only … Prin, you want your 2 mins first?
[2008/04/12 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: nope i give mine, i support this.. i think its crucial
[2008/04/12 10:23] You: Sonja?
[2008/04/12 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: id like to know what you think
[2008/04/12 10:23] Jamie Palisades looks around …? sees no speakers
[2008/04/12 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: you jamie? what do you think
[2008/04/12 10:24] Sonja Strom: Sorry, I often am slower than you guys.
[2008/04/12 10:24] Sonja Strom: If you want to hold the meetings in German, I will be faster 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:24] You: Prin, my own view is that there is a very good chance that Beathan and the Guild can integrate their views into something workable for everyone. Sonja? 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:24] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:24] You decline Winterfell – Medieval Gothic Vil, Winterfell (128, 225, 34) from A group member named Gabrielle Riel.
[2008/04/12 10:25] Sonja Strom: The DPU believes the CDS should build as much as it can with internal resources, but be willing to get outside help when it is stopped and would like help. The CDS has a lot of building resources. These are a little bit slow, but maybe not being used to their full potential.
[2008/04/12 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: so only if the guild actually stopps?
[2008/04/12 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: not to assist them ?
[2008/04/12 10:26] Sonja Strom: That is not my intention.
[2008/04/12 10:26] Sonja Strom: What I meant was, if there are difficulties moving forward with the resources we have.
[2008/04/12 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: and we think they are
[2008/04/12 10:27] Sonja Strom: For example, if a car runs out of gas, then you go outside to get it some gas.
[2008/04/12 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: what if you get two cars
[2008/04/12 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: and you put gas in both
[2008/04/12 10:27] Sonja Strom: That is also a possibility.
[2008/04/12 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: so you get more ppl there faster
[2008/04/12 10:27] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:28] You: funf minuten
[2008/04/12 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: farfegnugen
[2008/04/12 10:28] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/04/12 10:28] You: haben sie keine meinungen uber die Private Development Proposal, biei diesr sitzung, wo wir bildn keine abschlieÃŸende taetigkeit? 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:28] You: or are we done for now?
[2008/04/12 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: im
[2008/04/12 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/04/12 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: but i am very curious on other stances
[2008/04/12 10:29] You: OK then
[2008/04/12 10:29] You: we shall ask the other two when they’re her next week 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:29] You: and Beathan may have a new bill text by then
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: they are both adamantly for this bill
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is stronger than i on it
[2008/04/12 10:30] You: next item
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and beathan well
—-
[2008/04/12 10:30] You: 6
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: obviously .. and it had so much public support
[2008/04/12 10:30] You: Public Referenda – Sonja – do I understand that we will hold that until next week?
[2008/04/12 10:30] Sonja Strom: Yes, we can.
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: very well 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: 7
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: conflicts of interest etc.
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: please note …
[2008/04/12 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: whoa conflicts of interest…yay!!
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: (1) we have a citizen bill, the latest version of which is here:
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1766&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: and
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: (2) we have mine, which I mentioned last week, and is here:
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
[2008/04/12 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: can they be merged
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: and finally …
[2008/04/12 10:33] You: (3) I believe this may be viewed by some as a costitutinal amendment
[2008/04/12 10:33] You: which means ideally that to be best able to withstand (hypthetical) opposition …
[2008/04/12 10:34] You: … I’d love us to get 5 votes in favor of whatever we do here
[2008/04/12 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: thats likely i think
[2008/04/12 10:34] You: may I ask Robert, who is here, to introduce his proposal?
[2008/04/12 10:34] You: PMR?
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you Sir.
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: I am indeed honored to have the opportunity to address the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: and speak in support of my proposed bill, entitled The Limitation of Terms Act,
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: the second draft of which resulted from extensive discussions and amendments on the CDS Forums and which I submitted to this Assembly by forwarding it to you, Mr. Palisades.
[2008/04/12 10:36] PMRobert Walpole: My draft bill addresses the problems of older citizens being elected again and again to the same positions or switching from one key CDS office to another, standing as candidates for one whilst still in office in the other.
[2008/04/12 10:36] PMRobert Walpole: In my humble opinion, when the same people keep running for political office with no interruption, they become part of a permanent political group whose members only come to CDS for the politics,
[2008/04/12 10:36] PMRobert Walpole: and have little or no time to actually spend time and develop our community: its events, its commerce, its human side of community building.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: When most of one’s SL time is spent in three-hour meetings or in regular readings and posts on these forums, little time is left for socialising, networking, befriending, creating together with the newer CDS citizens.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: Almost every single event, meeting, party, get-together, discussion I have participated in in the CDS was almost exclusively with newer citizens.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: I have not met most of the older CDS members – and those I have, only briefly in RA or Guild meetings.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: By adopting Beathan’s proposal of a “2 on, one off” term schedule, combined with a “cooling off” period of one term before one stands down from one office and run for office for another key CDS branch,
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: we would give older, more experienced CDs citizens some “time off” official duties and the opportunity to meet and socialise with our newer citizens, and so contribute to what I think remains the biggest current need of CDS:
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: true community building and creation of stronger bonds among all citizens, and especially among older and younger ones.
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: The second aim of my draft bill is to prevent glaring conflicts of interest where older citizens move too often and too quickly from one CDS office to another
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: to ensure that their “vision” of CDS is not endangered, or to deal with what they perceive as emergencies in our political system.
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: The current by-elections are a case in point, Gwyn and Justice, sitting members of the SC, both having served multiple terms as both RA and SC members,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: After having approved the constitutionality of both the by-elections and CSDFâ€(tm)s right to present candidates,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: decide to run for theses very two RA seats themselves, as CSDF candidates,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: while still active SC members, in order to ensure that CDS won’t run off its tracks in a “wrong” direction.
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: Being allowed to run for one such office while still being a sitting member of another such office or immediately after ending one’s mandate, creates obvious conflicts of interest, both real and perceived,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: for these individuals and undermines the confidence all our citizens, but especially the newer ones, may have in our political institutions and processes.
[2008/04/12 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi NODS
[2008/04/12 10:40] PMRobert Walpole: This problem is also addressed by my draft bill, which incorporates Beathan’s suggestion of a cool-off term
[2008/04/12 10:40] PMRobert Walpole: Ironically, it is exactly Gwyn and Justice, as sitting SC members, who will decide on the constitutionality of this Act if you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the RA, decide in your wisdom to vote in favor of it.
[2008/04/12 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi applauds
[2008/04/12 10:40] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you for your time and for taking my proposal into consideration.
[2008/04/12 10:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you Robert.
[2008/04/12 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: wow .. what an astute observation 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: ty for your time
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a question
[2008/04/12 10:41] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/04/12 10:41] You: go 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja
[2008/04/12 10:41] You: Prin then SS
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: oh
[2008/04/12 10:41] Sonja Strom: Would this be a constitutional change?
[2008/04/12 10:42] You: view? 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: idk?
[2008/04/12 10:42] You: heh – here’s what I think
[2008/04/12 10:42] PMRobert Walpole: That is not a question I can answer – nor even the RA I think. The SC will rule on this – that is, the very people concerned most directly by it – Gwyn and Justice.
[2008/04/12 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lol ask the SC..
[2008/04/12 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: the very point
[2008/04/12 10:42] Sonja Strom: (sorry TP, I did not mean to go ahead of you, only did so because you said my name…)
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: sok
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: its an important question sonja asks
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and its quite
[2008/04/12 10:43] You: Our community *may* include people who see any change of institutions they like as a constitutional matter – regardless of the text thereof.
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: illucidating
[2008/04/12 10:43] Sonja Strom: Would we need to have 5 votes in favor to pass it?
[2008/04/12 10:44] You: Sonja I do not wish to concede that we require 5 votes. But I’d say it would make some lines of attack harder to sustain.
[2008/04/12 10:44] Sonja Strom: It is an interesting issue…
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja, the SC has to answer this and the SC is who the bill affects, so i think that is the case in point
[2008/04/12 10:44] You: any other Q of Robert? or my turn?
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i have one
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: PMR you said:
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: PMRobert Walpole: The current by-elections are a case in point, Gwyn and Justice, sitting members of the SC, both having served multiple terms as both RA and SC members, [10:38] PMRobert Walpole: After having approved the constitutionality of both the by-elections and CSDFâ€(tm)s right to present candidates, [10:38] PMRobert Walpole: decide to run for theses very two RA seats themselves, as CSDF candidates,
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: why is that so bad if they are unbiased?
[2008/04/12 10:45] Jamie Palisades cautions again personalities or motive speculation – still smiling SO far
[2008/04/12 10:45] You: PMR?
[2008/04/12 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: shhh jamie
[2008/04/12 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: you just did what you cautioned against
[2008/04/12 10:45] PMRobert Walpole: Well, a legitimate legal system requires not only for justice to be done
[2008/04/12 10:45] PMRobert Walpole: but also for justice to be seen to be done fairly
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: in order to be accepted.
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: in real life at leasat
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: when a judge
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: is confronted with a case
[2008/04/12 10:46] Feminist Expedition: good point pmr 🙂 i appreciate your notice and work for this draft…
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: which affects him or her directly
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: they would be required by law
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: to lt the ery leeast
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: recuse themselves
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: from deciding that case
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: this clearly has not happened here.
[2008/04/12 10:47] You: Thank you Robert.
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: I hope it will happen if the RA
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: adopts this bill
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: and it ends up
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: in front of the SC
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: thank you
[2008/04/12 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i see
[2008/04/12 10:47] You: For my own part I have three concerns.
[2008/04/12 10:47] Sonja Strom: That is a very interesting observation! lol
[2008/04/12 10:47] You: One is that it’s unseemly for people to fill one role, act to especially benefit their own distinct cause as a candidate, officer or contractor of CDS, and then go get those benefits, in that role or a second changed one. I actually was worried about the originally in the context of this kind of HYPOTHETICAL example: (a) a contested RA election in which one faction is prominent, (b) the same faction controlling the SC (the election authority) and (c) the same faction exclusively running the balloting devices. Cosmetically it’s the issue PMR suggests – the problem is that it LOOKS like an uncontrolled opportunity for biased management.
[2008/04/12 10:48] PMRobert Walpole: indeed sir
[2008/04/12 10:48] You: The second is that we are a small community, so TOO much regulation will probably defeat the good faith contributions from our volunteers. There are many instances of benign or virtuous overlap, without unseemly self-interest – which we do NOT want to chill or discourage. (By the way I personally am a little worried about the ‘cooling off’ period in that regard, though I have not deeply analyzed that yet.)
[2008/04/12 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi shivers
[2008/04/12 10:48] You: and here I may differ from PMR, respectfully
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: last item – I think we may often do best to require *DISCLOSURE* of conflicts of interest – let people reveal their interests in public statements. In which case, we can let the public and officials judge for themselves … and if someone actually lies or hides acute selfinterest, impeach or otherwise several deal with those cases:)
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: *severely < several [2008/04/12 10:49] You: done [2008/04/12 10:49] Feminist Expedition: good points... [2008/04/12 10:49] PMRobert Walpole: If I may [2008/04/12 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: me too [2008/04/12 10:49] PMRobert Walpole: reply to your last comment Sir [2008/04/12 10:49] Sonja Strom: of course Robert... [2008/04/12 10:49] You: other comments? I note no motion YET to adopt these - [2008/04/12 10:49] You: yes PMR [2008/04/12 10:49] Sonja Strom: I have one too. [2008/04/12 10:49] You: PMR then SS please [2008/04/12 10:50] You: 2 minutes each, hm? [2008/04/12 10:50] PMRobert Walpole: I have drafted a bill, posted it on the forums, had it discussed and amended extensively, presented to this Assembly the revised second draft, and explained here my rationale for it. The rest is up to you members of the RA. I will leave it in your capable hands 🙂 [2008/04/12 10:51] You: sonja? [2008/04/12 10:52] Sonja Strom: It seems to me that there is a little bit of a distinction between moving from one office or branch to another and being in the same office for longer than 2 terms. [2008/04/12 10:52] Jamie Palisades nods [2008/04/12 10:52] Sonja Strom: I would like to ask if it really is necessary to consider these two issues at the same time. [2008/04/12 10:52] Sonja Strom: I would be glad to have Robert's thinking about this. [2008/04/12 10:52] You: I do not think so personally [2008/04/12 10:52] You: bring them as two items next week, perhaps? [2008/04/12 10:53] PMRobert Walpole: Indeed. i believe both prongs of the bill reinforce each other's aims and goals for the reasons I attempted to explain in detail earlier. [2008/04/12 10:53] You: May I just also mention Beathan's comment about whether the proposed bill would disqualify any current RA candidates, here: [2008/04/12 10:53] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772#p10860 [2008/04/12 10:53] PMRobert Walpole: So the bill i submitted contains both. What you choose to do with it is of course your decision [2008/04/12 10:54] PMRobert Walpole: ah [2008/04/12 10:54] PMRobert Walpole: may I address that issue for a moment? [2008/04/12 10:54] You: so we could receive, and discuss, separate motions to adopt each distinct piece as a law, next week, then ... and yes, please PMR [2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: If we agree that there is a conflict of interest in sitting members of the key CDS offices of state running for another branch while still in office, and that a one-term "cool-off period" is appropriate, then on what grounds is an exception justifiable for these by-elections? [2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: CSDF could easily nominate two other candidates to replace Gwyn and Justice. [2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: This would preserve two outstanding citizens with substantial experience in governing the CDS where they belong, in the SC, and allow two other CSDF candidates to run for the RA, whose candidacies would not be shadowed by any issues of conflict of interest. [2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: since voting in the CDS is a party-vote rather than a vote for individuals, this will bring little if any change in the dynamics of the by-elections: those citizens who want to vote for the CSDF and its platform will be able to do so regardless of who the CSDF candidates are; actually, this would encourage those who might hesitate to vote for the CSDF because of possible conflicts of interest to do so without any second thoughts. [2008/04/12 10:55] You: let's limit comments on this to brief ones, please? [2008/04/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: me? [2008/04/12 10:56] You: as we're not acting, this week, and close to out of time. [2008/04/12 10:56] PMRobert Walpole: this answer was by the way part of the in forum discussion we had 🙂 [2008/04/12 10:56] Sonja Strom: One brief comment I have is, although some CSDF candidates have been used as examples for demonstration purposes, this is a general issue and not directed at the CSDF (?) [2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: there is a point that this bill adresses well and i think this is that it Preserves .. and increases volunteerism.......not thwarts it......:) [2008/04/12 10:57] PMRobert Walpole: Oh of course. this was just a timely example. [2008/04/12 10:57] You: OK. I can see some conuntervailing arguments about not changing rules once an election is under way -- which we can lavish time upon next week [2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree with sonja [2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: indeed it appears to decrease volunteerism [2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: but i say it actually will INCREASE it [2008/04/12 10:57] You: any last word on this for now? [2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and mostly .. the thing that matters most to CDS is that we support our volutneers.. and i totally believe that this bill prtects that and encourages and supports the ppl who volunteer from burnout and opens up opportunities for younger citizens [2008/04/12 10:58] Sonja Strom: We could consider allowing the new members of the RA to be involved in the ultimate vote, perhaps... [2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lol sonja that is the whole point [2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lol [2008/04/12 10:58] You: hm - that's an ambivalent comment, Prin [2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so you let gwuen and justice fvote on the bill agbout whether or not they should have [2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: been seated on teh SC [2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: when they made the rules [2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: then vote on it [2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: again [2008/04/12 10:59] You: are we done wih this topic for now? [2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: no i didnt get noticed to speak [2008/04/12 10:59] PMRobert Walpole: I am Sir. Thank you all for considering it. [2008/04/12 10:59] You: ah OK - may I suggest that we adjourn after this item, as we're at our planned time to adjourn, and ask Prin fof her 2 minutes of comment? [2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: why on earth would sonja want to have the ppl who the bill isactually in part addressing that we let them vote on it [2008/04/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and the bill encourages volunteerism and protects those who "do too much": [2008/04/12 11:00] You: sorry 🙂 Prin, 2 mins. then adjourn is my suggestion [2008/04/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i LOVE it [2008/04/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: adjourn [2008/04/12 11:00] You: Prin, I am personally unaware of anyone who does too much for CDS [2008/04/12 11:01] You: just so we're clear [2008/04/12 11:01] Sonja Strom: Sorry to go against the procedures, but personally I would like to continue to hear what ThePrincess wanted to say. [2008/04/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thats a saying for ppl that get burnt out [2008/04/12 11:01] You: she's welcome - it's her turn [2008/04/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: and its so true that there ARE, ppl who have trouble saying NO [2008/04/12 11:01] You: sorry, lag typos - please go ahead if you have more, Prin [2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: but if they did, others would step up to the plate [2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion [2008/04/12 11:02] Sonja Strom: (ok me too, sorry...) [2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: im done i was ok [2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i can always type more [2008/04/12 11:02] Feminist Expedition: 🙂 ---- 2008/04/12 11:02] You: excellent - hm - any urgent 'open chat' items, or are we done for today? [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: what time are we meeting next week [2008/04/12 11:03] You: 9 am SLT [2008/04/12 11:03] You: Saturday [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: same time next week, same bat channel [2008/04/12 11:03] Sonja Strom: haha [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a question [2008/04/12 11:03] You: per agenda item 1e - that's exactly right, Catwoman 🙂 [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have a theme [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: like [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: superhero day [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: lol [2008/04/12 11:03] Feminist Expedition: 🙂 [2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: im kidding [2008/04/12 11:04] Feminist Expedition: for those who do too much? [2008/04/12 11:04] Feminist Expedition: 🙂 [2008/04/12 11:04] Sonja Strom: TP, I think Alexicon would be the one to talk to about that 😉 [2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: can we during RA [2008/04/12 11:04] Jamie Palisades thinks about capes and shudders [2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i should ask him [2008/04/12 11:04] Sonja Strom: hehee [2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: well i sell capes [2008/04/12 11:04] You: yes, let's make that an executive branch thing [2008/04/12 11:04] Sonja Strom: Jamie has a cape already! [2008/04/12 11:04] You: speaking of which [2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok [2008/04/12 11:04] You: may I just mention here [2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie can you make cookies next time [2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: yes [2008/04/12 11:05] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you for allowing me to present my draft bill and speak in support of it. I wish everyone a very pleasant weekend. Cheers! [2008/04/12 11:05] You: that I confirmed with Alexicon that he has approved your reimbursement that we discussed last week at the meeting, Prin [2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: ty [2008/04/12 11:05] You: so I will pursuye it with Sudane and keep you potsed [2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: well that si good but where is my money [2008/04/12 11:05] You: posted [2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: and why did it take so long [2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to have the process clear [2008/04/12 11:05] You: I am learning much about our budget process 🙂 [2008/04/12 11:05] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed! [2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its not about ME [2008/04/12 11:05] You: Thank you also, Robert [2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its about the fact that everyone knows you never get reimbursed [2008/04/12 11:06] You: we're adjourned [2008/04/12 11:06] Sonja Strom: Thanks Robert. [2008/04/12 11:06] Sonja Strom: ok [2008/04/12 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: and i need money for the guided tour [2008/04/12 11:06] You: Thanks all for coming [end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 19, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS
2. Chancellor request for web portal funding (5 mins.: 09h15-09h20)
3. LRA Bill(s) (15 mins.: 09h20-09h35)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
4. Public Referenda (20 mins.: 09h35-09h55)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1715#p10506
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667
5. Conflict of Interest, etc. (20 mins.: 09h55-10h15)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
6. Commerce Commission recommendations (15 mins.: 10h15-10h30)
— viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
7. Private Development Proposal (15 mins.: 10h30-10h45)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721

NEW ITEMS
8. Other?
9. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h55-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00

Transcript

====
Transcript of 19 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items

====
[2008/04/19 9:06] You: Shall we start?
[2008/04/19 9:06] Moon Adamant: sorry Mr. LRA
[2008/04/19 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yep ..
[2008/04/19 9:07] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: I note that Beathan sent regrets, so we all are here, of the seated members who will come today
[2008/04/19 9:07] You:
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: oh
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: and i came on purpose to explain the draft analysis if needed
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: Thanks all for indulging me in meeting here – nice way to commemorate this very successful & gorgeous 3rd sim project, as we grapple with the 4th one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: Yes, Moon, let’s work that in
[2008/04/19 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but i dont like it here
[2008/04/19 9:08] Sonja Strom: Hi Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: hello Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: I think we were not going to do “priv dev” today in detail because Beathan’s absent, but …
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: btw, Mr LRA
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: The Guild has a question for the RA
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah lets wait for that one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: some kind of update on where we all think we agree, with sim 4, would e nice
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi smiles
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: but it can be placed wherever you like in agenda
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we are not in a hurry hun
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: OK Moon we will put it on agenda – and that agenda is here:
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: we have other things .. jamie i’ll speak with you later
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 9:09] You:
[2008/04/19 9:09] Moon Adamant sits quietly and listens now
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: so we are called to order ..
—-
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: and as item 1a
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi is always quiet and listening
[2008/04/19 9:09] Symo Kurka: (does not understand in what kinda meeting has been parachuted)
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: Would all present please indicate assent to being recorded in transcript. I assent.
[2008/04/19 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist looks shocked
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: (Symo this is regular CDS RA meeting)
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: oops
[2008/04/19 9:10] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] You:
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: (Prin, I agree, this is a small room – once we have 7 seated members again it probably is out of the question)
—-
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: item 1b
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: Please look at the agenda – I just gave the Forum URI above in chat
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: we have one suggestion for change
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: report from Guild
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: should we just make that item 7 instead of taking up the current item 7, Beathan’s “Priv Dev” bill?
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: not hearing any obj …
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i object
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: to what?
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i cant cam and see ppl
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: its every annoiying
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this room
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: sok dont mind me
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: You may safely assume we will not using it again in my term – which is 2 more meetings
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: ahem
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: no objection, so amended agenda is approved
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi nods
—-
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: item 1c
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: Any one other than RA memebers come to speak on a specific item, who wishes to so indicate?>
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: so may i clarify?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if i want to speak what do i do exactly
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: what should say?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: see people call me a troll cos i talk too much
[2008/04/19 9:14] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into MT’s hand.
[2008/04/19 9:14] You: you are an RA member you just tell us you want to talk – this “rule” is about nonRA members getting priority in a queue
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to know the exact words i should use
[2008/04/19 9:14] Jon Seattle: I am here to answer any questions. In particular tech questions in relation to referenda.
[2008/04/19 9:14] MT Lundquist: just in case
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but do i say.
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ?me raises her hand
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jon Seattle: i will remain quiet otherwise.
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jamie Palisades looks around – more relevant to a more crowded meeting, smile
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: or do i just talk
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: thanks
[2008/04/19 9:15] Moon Adamant: well, i al ready indicated that the Ng has a question, no, two questions to ask this RA
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: and Jon that may be helpful
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: they said i’m a troll jamie
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: hush
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: please
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so i want to get it right
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi hushes
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: I am not going to deal in here with attacks not raised in here, hm?
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: noting Jon and Moon’s items, then – next item
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so if im a troll tell me
—-
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1d
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting — but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: next
—-
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1e
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Future times for meetings
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: I have the following suggestion
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well this isn’t working
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Beathan & the rest of us are expecting this time, for the next week, so let’s do 9 am Satuday again on the …
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to go back to sunday and maybe move it back so you have time
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: 26th, SLT
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe one on sunday instead of noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry this isnt seeming to work .. but then
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well its too late in the UK
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: OK, Prin, how is this not working?
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i just dont think we can find a good time nvm
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well no one is here
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: how come we had packed meetings and all RA memebers every time on sunday ant noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and now
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and last week
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: not so much
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: um this is not a roman circus, it’s a meeting which needs quorum, so to *my* eye it works if we get quorum
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i like an audience
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: do you think that other meeting time was better for – um – spectators?
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well the citizens need to watch
[2008/04/19 9:18] Xcite! Ruler is now aimed at ThePrincess Parisi
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes cos twice in a roow not all the ppl in RA are here
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its not good now with out beathan
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: I imagine you might, dear – my own cross to carry has been only to make sure we can keep a quorum, when we only have 5 seated
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and no cindy
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: Now
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: here’s my take
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: see i need my faction here to IM me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: Last week and this week we had one member gone – due to a nonrepeating one time commitment
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: im a nucare REP
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: not just me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but one time is now two
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: MT’s reunion, Beathan’s caucus – both one-time RL events
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: one time what, Prin?
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan was not here last time
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and now two in a row
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: without everyone
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and the common denominator is time
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: mt could have been here if it was sunday
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: see
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: me personal view is that we are both meeting too much – and have insufficient rules for kicking people who miss meetings off the RA
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the middle of the weekend
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sunday at one is the end but for us in sltime
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: so its more ppl at home
[2008/04/19 9:20] Xcite! Ruler whispers: MT stares at ThePrincess Parisi’s body and taps the ruler against his hand.
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: so in summary Prin – so that we do not spent all morning n repetitions of this point – you have decided that you prefer Sunday?
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: Whaat
[2008/04/19 9:20] Sonja Strom: Beathan posted in the Forum that he would have to be gone these two Saturdays to be a RL party delegate.
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so i do a concert then now cos its a good time
[2008/04/19 9:21] Sonja Strom: He said after this one he could make it on Saturdays.
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: OK, well, you were one of the people who indicated a poiossible conflict with US Sunday morning church time – but let’s bring this to A CLOSE for now
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: but we dont have as big of an audience
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like that part
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: I plan to call the next meeting one week from now at 9 am SLT You may overrule me now if you like. Otherwise, if no motion to do so, let’s move on
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like sundays
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: nope i wont come
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: but Princess
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: I’m sorry? what are you saying, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: nvm
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: i am sure that your party is agog to support you even on saturdays
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: Ahem
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: go on im gonna pout
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: ThePrincess have you announced that you plan not to attend next week unless you get a time you like? If so please be quite clear on the record, right now.
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: OR MAKE A MOTION
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: no i will reserve my right to change my mind
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: go on
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: or else let’s .. move … on
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: MOVE ON
—-
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 1f
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: consent items
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: I know of none
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: anyone?
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: OK. 3 minutes behind: next item
—-
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 2
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: Our chancellor asked us for a funding request for webportals hosting fees
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: I think we asked him to post more detail, as I recall. Did he?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Jamie Palisades rummages through forums – anyone know?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Sonja Strom: Arria made a post asking for US$10/month.
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: sounds a lot better, what do we get for that exactly
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: hm – I thought Alexi said US$20 last week, but no matter
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: Hosting fee, I think, Prin, with what our PIO thinks is adequate traffic
[2008/04/19 9:25] Moon Adamant: hello Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: (Justice, please assent to being recorded on the record when you get settled)
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: So
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: I think we should give our Chancellor and PIO the approval they want, to do this portal that multiple factions have stated they wish to see.
[2008/04/19 9:26] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/04/19 9:27] You: May I have a motion to approve it? (at US$10 a month) per Arria’s post?
[2008/04/19 9:27] MT Lundquist: hi justice
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA approve US$10/month for the web portal project, per Arria’s post here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Thanks. Any objections?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: If I hear none it passes unanimously .. yes?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Good
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: next then
—-
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: item 3
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Hello Roc, please siddown and assent to recording
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: by saying so
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, rezzing
[2008/04/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: helloflying roc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: and I assent
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: item (ahem) (smile) 3
[2008/04/19 9:29] MT Lundquist: hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:29] Sonja Strom: Hi Flyingroc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Symo Kurka: Hi FRC
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: Prin? Who was the chief proponent of your LRA bill? Will we take it up at this meeting?
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: hi all, and now I sit quietly.
[2008/04/19 9:29] Moon Adamant: Hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: Here’s the bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
[2008/04/19 9:30] Jon Seattle: Hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: and I note that it’s generally a direct-election-of-LRA bill, and that after this, I will raise another one which would apply only to by-elections
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i don’t like haveing a bill for one circumstance and not all
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I also note that I believe one of them may be a constitutional amendment
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i think that they should all be applicable in all situations
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it one bit
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: Prin, do you, or anyone, wish to move adoption of your LRA bill posted 3 March, at the URI above, at this time?
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: LRA should stay the same formula and rules …..
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I will speak about my idea when it’s proper, later in the agenda
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: but I have no motion right now
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: .. looking for one?
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: Ladies and gentlemen, if there’s no motion we will not take up the March LRA bill at this time.
[2008/04/19 9:33] Jamie Palisades smiles, watches the second hand of his watch, and waits
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: OK then
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: I am going to discuss the alternative for a bit then
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I have sent another proposal to the forums, here –
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I did so for the following reason
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I think our Constitution and rules are appalling in their lack of clarity
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: and we WILL need to have an LRA after the by-election, somehow
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: and I do not personally feel that letting the SC – wether or not some of them feel they ought to recuse themselves – pick whoever it wants is wise
[2008/04/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so we make ONE rule that covers ALL situations of the RA
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: .. and that’s what I think you will face, under current law – which COULD be read ambiguously to support ANY of the following outcomes:
[2008/04/19 9:35] MT Lundquist: yes i agree with prin
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: thats why we put the lra ill together
[2008/04/19 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need ONE rule then
[2008/04/19 9:36] Moon Adamant: hello Gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: bill
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: (a) old LRA just stays in place – seems odd, if voters sweep in a new faction
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: ahem let me finish, maybe?
[2008/04/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a quick hi, I don’t want to interrupt, and I won’t be staying long anyway)
[2008/04/19 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (b) original LRA faction (in this case CSDF), who earned it in Feb election, gets it back IF they get one or more candidates – basically re-use the old result
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: or
[2008/04/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and it needs to coordinate with the chancellor bill
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (c) use some kind of math aggregation of Borda counts from February and April, smile, which is a math major’s dream argument
[2008/04/19 9:37] You:
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: I am done now.
[2008/04/19 9:37] Flyingroc Chung shudders at c
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: I propose that we add the direct election of the chancellor to the LRA bill as proposed in March
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: Prin you may speak agains this but you are out of order to talk about the March LRA bill .. unless … there … is … a … motion … to. .pass … it … now
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: MT, can I take that as a motion? Please
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: if it is the bill needs to be amended
[2008/04/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: the LRA should be elected by the RA and the chancellor by the citizens
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: agenda-wise we are hitting the time limit for this. I believe we should extend. All RA members OK with 10 minute extension for this item? Please say if you object
[2008/04/19 9:39] MT Lundquist: that would give the citizens a direct line into government
[2008/04/19 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn , strangely, agrees with Princess
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: MT can we have a motion?
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: yes the lra bill from march
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: OK – hang on – just checking text reference
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: amended for direct election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Prin, you second this, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: wouldn’t that need an amend?
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Ok all hang on a sec please
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: we are working on it
[2008/04/19 9:41] MT Lundquist: yes it will
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: OK. The motion on the table is …
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: the SECOND post (most recent version from MT) of the Billl in the thread posted in March, URI noted above … plus …
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: an amendment to directly elect chancellor – the text of which MT or Prin will get us during this meeting
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: that is definitely a constitutional amendment
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: some think it requires 5 votes
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to have that tabled til next session then
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: I don’t, but I am not on the SC – not even the smaller non-recusable one
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we cannot write a bill in this few mins
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this done this way……
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: no prin we could act now and giv Beathan the 7 day voting period he’s requested
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie dont complicat it too much
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we can but we wont
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I;m sorry, Prin, a question for clarification?
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to have time to write it correctly
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I have two questions of Prin. EVERYTHING else is out of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want a week to add the election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: these are points of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ask
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: first
[2008/04/19 9:43] MT Lundquist: i agree we should wait until next week so the text is good
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: who is the “we” and what is the “it” in your sentence “we can but we won’t”?
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: huh?
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: MT I am working with Prin on a privileged point, please wait
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: the we is Nucare
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i am not a lawyer
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i have no clue what the heck you are talking about
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: geek down ok
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: pedestrian
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: ah – and the “it” is the proposal to pass this time, then use the 7 day device? You are suggesting we just hold this item for next week?
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: If you are addressing me, watch your tone, ThePrincess
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes hold the item for next week so we can add
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: very well. my first or two questions is answered.
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: “geek down” meens you are speaking above my head
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: Here’s my second.
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i find that not pleasant sir
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: so back at you
[2008/04/19 9:46] You: ThePrincess, you mentioned a “ruse”, please clarify or withdraw your statement. I am curious because I thought you might be referring to an action of mine?
[2008/04/19 9:46] Jamie Palisades waits patiently
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt use that word
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i didnt understand that lingo
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: so please talk to me how i can understand
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont even know what “point of order ” means
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: OK, here’s what my transcript has , I certainly can be mistaken:
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: [9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: a bunch of rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: thank you
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: we have a motion and second .. but ..
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Prin has suggested we withdraw it and wait until next week
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: im out by the pool and i can hardly see the screen sorry fro the typo
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Are all members OK with that?
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (waiting a week)
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (and thank you very much for the clarification Prin)
[2008/04/19 9:48] Sonja Strom: I am OK with that.
[2008/04/19 9:48] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 9:48] MT Lundquist: i’m ok to table
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: Sounds like a plan then – and MT, can you get me some text on the chancellor thing, and post it to the March thread, before next Saturday?
[2008/04/19 9:49] MT Lundquist: yes will do
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: super
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: next item, if no one has more
—-
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: item 4
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: public referenda
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: note we have several active proposals from Sonja
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: and ballot expert Jon here as well to assist
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: Sonja, if I can …
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: ..let me just clarify that, to do what you want, we would need to …
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Bill – April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn would also like to have a small word on that after the RA members have talked, if I may.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: … *first* make referenda legal, *second* approve the ones you’d proposed, or others, and *third* check into feasibility, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Questions Bill – April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: (Got it Gwyn)
[2008/04/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: isnt this constitutional?
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: wouldn’t you want to check feasibility first?
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: sure, Prin, if we approve it, so far as I know – because Sonja’s planned public questions are nonbinding, I cannot imagine a problem
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: engineer FR
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: I mean, if it cant be done why make a law for it.
[2008/04/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:51] Jon Seattle: (back)
[2008/04/19 9:51] Sonja Strom: TP, this would not be a constitutional change, because as Jamie said the results would not be legally binding but only advisory.
[2008/04/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the questions are just examples?
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: I think our esteemed simian neighbor has a great point. Sonja, would you mind if I first ask Jon about timing and feasibility?
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: They are a version of an opinion poll.
[2008/04/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: cos i dont see asking a post RA passing question
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: Sure, go ahead Jamie.
[2008/04/19 9:52] You:
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: Jon, would you care to tell us whatever might be useful about how any referenda Qs we might adopt today would integrate into the current by-election?
[2008/04/19 9:53] You: (and thanks again, both for your service to assist CDS with the ballot, and being here today to help us)
[2008/04/19 9:53] Jon Seattle: Well, at Sonja’s request I added the feature to the election system. It allows yes / no questions to be added to the ballot. However, it has only been lightly tested.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: so hmm – when does the ballot turn on officially, Jon?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: noon SLT?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT today. Now, I am still waiting for final word on the citizen list, so I very much hope it will open then.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: Gwyn is answering the legal question I was asking about the device implementation
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: thank you Jon
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry.
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i would personally really like a more comprehensive bill for this
[2008/04/19 9:55] Jon Seattle: Very welcome.
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: so assuming we are willing to further abuse your good will, and ship just-in-time questions, you actually can support it
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its being rushed .. for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Please wait prin
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: that is something we can do …….a poll anyway
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Sonja has passed around 2 notecards
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: I suggest we take up the “CDS Referendum” one now – and Prin, the SECOND one will be about what questions if any we put out this tie THIS one is just to *permit* referenda
[2008/04/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant: oh, i’ll wait then
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: Just a sec Moon Sonja, do you move the passage of your first notecard?
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA adopt a Referendum process as worded in my notecard.
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think we are ready to vote
[2008/04/19 9:57] You:
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: we will vote against if we do it today
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: can we wait please
[2008/04/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its too rushed sonja
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: hm – why would we need to do that, Prin? Beathan’s 7 day thing?
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: Or are you just signalling that you and MT will vote against it?
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: if you dont need our votes its ok
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: well right now it would be 2 to 2, and be left to Beathan
[2008/04/19 9:58] Flyingroc Chung:
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: which I note would make it too late for this election
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we don’t want to waste with a inadequate bill
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: but we want it more comprehensive
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: It is interesting to me that you would say that.
[2008/04/19 9:58] Jamie Palisades makes a note that Prin opposes inadequate legislation, smiles and agrees generically
[2008/04/19 9:58] MT Lundquist: we want to see a better formed proposal
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: This question has been on the
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: I second it so that it can be debated – but suggest we keep further debate short
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Forum for about 3 weeks now.
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: I have been asking for input on it the whole time.
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: SOnja, then Gwyn, the Moon, then anyone else, 2 mins limit each please
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. and we have a lot of distractions place on the government sonja by our friends at CSDF who have put the most huge roadblock to government in our history
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: There has been a lot of debate on it.
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: so there is a lot going on now hun
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need it to wait
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Why do you just now say that you want it to have different wording?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: more comprehensive.. you are asking for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 10:00] Symo Kurka: I think nobody can reasonably get scared from an “only advisory” referenda….
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: (me nots that while he does not personally agree with Prin about that, her satement about CSDF is *entirely* in-bounds as appropriate wording for a legislative debate)
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: an opinion poll with no strength
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its a waste of law
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: hmmmm
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its just an opinion poll for no reason but politics
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont like it
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: Prin would you aprrove a *binding* referenda law – not about a specific topic, just generally for CDS?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do a real thing that gives power to the ppl
[2008/04/19 10:00] Sonja Strom: So, which wording do you propose, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: binding
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i will work on that after the election
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Sonja, any other comments for now?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the election that is taking so MUCH energy WAY AWAY from important things i might add
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: I feel that the CDS should be all about its citizens.
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the unneccessary one
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: If it is not, what are we even doing here?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i agree sonja
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i want it more about them than you do though
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Prin let her finish please and wait you turn
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: The entire concept of this bill was to include the community in the direction that the CDS takes.
[2008/04/19 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: if we bother them to vote, then make it meaningful, its only lipservice like this
[2008/04/19 10:02] You: last warning before I censure you Prin
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I put a lot of work into making it general enough and non-binding enough that all it would be is advisory to the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I really don’t understand why anyone in the CDS, much the less in this room, would be opposed to this bill.
[2008/04/19 10:03] Sonja Strom: done, thanks.
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: cos its a waste of energy
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: its only a poll of opinions
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need to not rule by that
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to do something more
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: MORE
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: meaningful for voters
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: thank you. I have Moon, then Gwyn, then Prin if she has more – but we are talking about a referenda bill generally, not the specific proposed questions about sim 4
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like to vote for a thing that i know means nothing sonja
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: Moon? anything on this?
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: if i voote yes i want it to mean something
[2008/04/19 10:03] Moon Adamant: my question doesn’t have to do with the specific referenda bill, so i’ll pass and speak at the appropriate point
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: OK, Prin.
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: Please hush everyone and listen carefully
[2008/04/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: do you understand how furusteationg it can be
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: ThePrincess you are continually interrupting multiple other speakers and making it very hard for us to do our work …
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: and I strongly suggest you stop now ..
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: here is what I am going to do about it as presiding officer …
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: (a) I am warning you now
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: (b) I will make sure for the next meeting that I am able to physically eject members, and will ask the RA to approve that act, if you do it again next meeting AFTER multiple warnings
[2008/04/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: did Princess just leave?
[2008/04/19 10:05] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: yes i think so
[2008/04/19 10:05] Symo Kurka: lol
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: and that affects quorum
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: does it? I see we have three – although I suppose you can choose to leave if that’s NuCARE’s position, MT
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: We are quorate with 3 of 5 trust me, I wrote the rule
[2008/04/19 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: omg can people *stop* with this “leaving the RA” thing?
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: and I have got my point about reamining in order on the record
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: let’s be civli, all, please
[2008/04/19 10:06] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie, it is unfortunate that a situation came about to where what you said was helpful, but I fully believe it did.
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: It is MY goal that everyone INCLUDING ThePrincess CAN participate effectively, and be heard, in a fair way. Period. Let’s move on.
[2008/04/19 10:07] MT Lundquist: i think we need to be careful about how we treat people here
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: we had, I think, agreed to hold Sonja’s bill over – and act on it next week – but Gwyn was in line to speak on it
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: I completely agree, MT
[2008/04/19 10:07] Moon Adamant: oh, MT has left too?
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: offended
[2008/04/19 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: I note that MT has left, rendering us inquorate
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer notes that MT has left the building
[2008/04/19 10:08] Sonja Strom: Nothing was said that was unfair.
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: i agree with Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: Well, I have a personal comment for the record
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: didn’t hear a word addressed to both that was unpolite
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer: more unfortunate gamesmanship, I’m afraid.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: This isn’t about NuCARE – I don’t think Patroklus would have liked the way I used parliamentary procedure to deal with him, either, if he and I had coincided on the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Because some of his actions I found as disorderly as today’s.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: So let’s not anyone get all uppity about being better than Prin, hm?
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Sonja, let me just run down the other items we had, as a courtesy.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Sure, although I would also like to make a comment.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the RA still on record?
[2008/04/19 10:10] You: I suggest we let Gwyn offer her comments for the record – since she has been patiently waiting, if she likes, then simply NOTE other items and adjourn.
[2008/04/19 10:10] You:
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Of course.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: hm
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: i had some guild questions… but i suppose they can wait
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: We are in a meeting where quorum’s absence has been noted. We cannot act, other to adjourn. We can sit and chat if we wish. I am suggesting we take a few minutes to do that, to make sure we have loose ends wrapped up.
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: Gywn, do you still wish to speak?
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just briefly, since there won’t be a vote.
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to ask Sonja, as proponent of this bill,
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to consider Beathan’s compromise (since Beathan is not here to defend his view)
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and take it as a friendly to include at least “not more than one referendum per RA term”
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, Sonja, I read you arguing otherwise)
[2008/04/19 10:13] Sonja Strom: done?
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a matter of principle, the CSDF opposes *binding referenda* except for, well, things like changing the rights of people, ending our souveraignity, annexing countries… things like that
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nothing against *consulting referenda*
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which are fine.
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a few more comments on one of the many threads on the referendum as *suggestions* but I won’t bother you with the details.
[2008/04/19 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA. I’ll hush now
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: hm – like to hear more about that list someday, Gwyn, but not needed for today. Done for now?
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: And Moon also had nothing on *this* item
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: Sonja? More from you on this before we move on?
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: no, just specifically on the 4th sim question
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: in a sec
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK then, this item is closed – with the note that we’ll pick it back up next week
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: but it can wait
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: now
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I really don’t remember Beathan proposing “not more than one referendum per RA term.”
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: please look at the other items on the original agenda – see
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I would for sure consider that.
[2008/04/19 10:15] Jamie Palisades hushes to let Sonja finish
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: However, it looks like work on this bill will continue for some time, so I don’t think it needs to be discussed further right now in this meeting.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: (sorry if I interrupted Gwyn
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: all done on this for now? (looking around)
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: I do have one more comment I would like to make about the disruptance earlier.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Moon Adamant: on the referenda bill? nothing to add
[2008/04/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no no, Sonja, you didn’t, I was finished)
—-
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: we will not take up items 5 (conflicts of interest), 6 (commerce commission) or 7 (Private Development) at this time

[2008/04/19 10:17] You: But let’s have Moon tell us what the Guild …
[2008/04/19 10:17] Moon Adamant: Sonja first?
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: .. had in mind about sim 4, related to item 7, to get it on the record …
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: OK. More from you, Sonja?
[2008/04/19 10:17] Moon Adamant: no, not related to item 7
[2008/04/19 10:17] Sonja Strom: ThePrincess and MT are elected officials, and as such can make any decisons in relation to the RA that they choose. For example, leaving in the middle of a meeting. However, it is clearly not helpful in any way if they are disrupting the order of the meetings and interrupting other speakers.
[2008/04/19 10:18] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: there are conceptual devices called ‘Democracy Aids’
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: which could help
[2008/04/19 10:18] You: ??
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: soapbox, which you know, is one
[2008/04/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The hmm “talking stick”
[2008/04/19 10:19] You: We are talking about how to keep order? 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: i am suggesting that technological solutions may help
[2008/04/19 10:19] You: It seems to me that, if one uses such a device but others do not cooperate, the presiding officer still gets to tye same place of being required (as our laws permit) to use first warnings, and then sanctions, no?
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: of course
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, most definitely 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “social” measures always work better than “technological” ones 😉
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: of course
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But technology can surely help a bit.
[2008/04/19 10:20] Flyingroc Chung: you can have a scripted device auto-boot the person after making too many interruptions 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: the democracy aids are not intended to replace your power
[2008/04/19 10:20] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: but to help maintain order
[2008/04/19 10:21] You: Let’s ask for less levity – friends, it is no fun when someone has to be cautioned, censured or sanctioned.
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: The proper goal of a legislat8ive body is to restore them to constructive access to the session ASAP, so let’s not get into personalities please.
[2008/04/19 10:22] Moon Adamant: Jamie, i totally agree with you
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: now as for the devices
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: here’s the thing
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: we’d need to know WHAT it does and HOW based on what triggers – which I guess is saying, I am happy to let smart techies like Jon, CIndy or Roc program ballot boxes which I do NOT fully understand – but
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: if I were an RA member I would want to know VERY well exactly what triggers the little stormtropper gadgets use 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: hmmm no
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: so
[2008/04/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, more visual aids really, Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: imagine this
[2008/04/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessaruily “kick avatar if they have spoken for more than 3 minutes”
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: a small planetarium
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: each person in chat range has a sphere
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: as the people talk, the spheres increase proportionally to the ammount of total time they consume of teh discussion
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: so you have two effects
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: you see who is dominating teh discussion
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: people who are little participative may feel encouraged to participate more
[2008/04/19 10:25] You: Interesting (smile) – and maybe we take this thread to the forums? – but for RA meeting purposes, can we hold over that kind offer of suggestions and assistance, for the first meeting after our new by-election RA members are seated?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: NY Law School had a similar project to this in hmmm
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: 2004?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Flyingroc Chung: oh god I am remnded of meetings where people who have nothing to say say stupid things just to sound “participatory”
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: you remember Justice?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Justice Soothsayer: we used the soapbox in the RA during the contentious judiciary debates
[2008/04/19 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: Clarence Thomas has it right 😉
[2008/04/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: i think it later on passed to Democracy island
[2008/04/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: it was this chair scheme… that approached/got further from teh centre
[2008/04/19 10:26] Justice Soothsayer shudders at Thomas
—-
[2008/04/19 10:27] You: Take to the forums, please? 🙂 can we, before departing today, ask Moon to tell us what the Guild was wishing to ask? Even though it will need to go to the forums – and next RA mtg – if you wish to give us a summary now, Moon, you’ve been patiently waiting.
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: the Guild is currentluy developing a lot of projects
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: requested work
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: Masterplan, BAC, 4th sim, etc
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: ah, i must also say
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: that Faculty elections will occur in the 24th April
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: as you know, we organize ourselves in workgroups
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: to accomplish these tasks
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: the 4th sim workgroup (btw, could teh RA think on a name for it?’
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: has met
[2008/04/19 10:29] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: and has 2 questions for the RA
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: one, which is simpler
[2008/04/19 10:29] You: Colonia Adamantum? heh
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: is if we can go down from the 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: in order to be able to have a prim multiplier
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: we believe that perhaps with 4-5 plots less
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: we can give that multiplier to the future citizens
[2008/04/19 10:31] Moon Adamant: increasing their CN-4 experience
[2008/04/19 10:31] Moon Adamant: comments on this question?
[2008/04/19 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn will excuse herself for today and leave a bit earlier — sorry to interrupt, Moon, and bye bye to all 🙂 [and yes, permission granted to record everything I say and POST it on the forums, wink wink] [2008/04/19 10:31] You: I do – any others?
[2008/04/19 10:32] You: ok then
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: Moon, I have 3 Qs
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: and yes, we will need to get any official acts from the RA next week
[2008/04/19 10:33] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: or whenever we are next quorate ..
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: 1. on the double/prim 50 thing: I believe the RA gave ytou the go-ahead, but subject to the Guild being able to come back and get clarity
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: so
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: one second please
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: sorry, back
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: not double multiplier
[2008/04/19 10:34] You: I see this as one of those things where the guild is waiting for the RA, now, and it’s up to use to come back to you, to keep the timeline moving. Is that a fair take?
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: but possibly 1.5 or so
[2008/04/19 10:35] You: ok, got it, > x2.0
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: mind also that we published these maps here
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: in teh forums
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: so that Guild memebers can sketch their plans
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: as it’s our usual method
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: as you know, our process is iterative
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: aiming towards a goal
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: which is optimal, perhaps not THE best
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: but optimal
[2008/04/19 10:37] You: yes. hmm. This is CN on the map on the table. Something on these maps we need to talk about? Or can I ask my other Qs first?
[2008/04/19 10:37] Moon Adamant: so i think our question is: is 50 plots an imperative necessity?
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: ah 🙂 that was my second point
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: remind that the white paper talked ‘about’ 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:38] Justice Soothsayer must excuse himself
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: ta Justice
[2008/04/19 10:38] Justice Soothsayer: /salute
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: see you later Justice
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: Moon:
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: here’s my concern
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: There’s a procedural fork in the road here
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: if the Guild (a) ASKS ‘did you really mean 50′, I think the answer will come back “yes’
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: sort of obvious – that’s what their resolution said
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: so what if
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: but (b)
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: well, it said ‘about 50 plots’
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: 46 plots is about 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:40] You: if the Guild says ‘we think 50 will NOT work and RECOMMEND “x” value instead, I think you get a more likely ear, here. So it comes down to whetehr ther Guild will express an opinion
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: we will do that then
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: also as when we start getting input and layouts
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: next question
[2008/04/19 10:40] You: Hye I am find with leaving it “as is” too, I just wanted to point out that the wording of the Guild’s missive might affect its reception
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: yes one more only for now
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: I have been watching the masterplan work – and thank YOU Symo for all your efforts there
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: well, you see that planning is an interactive process
[2008/04/19 10:41] Symo Kurka: yw Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: you don’t freeze stuff at any given point… only at the end
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: The limited concern I have for now is this
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: and yes, Symo’s been doing a great work
[2008/04/19 10:42] Moon Adamant: :))
[2008/04/19 10:42] Symo Kurka: (blushes)
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: will there be blowback, in the sense that CDS *must* take some future-sims issues into mind, and will have answers for them, by the time the final decisions/shape of the sim 4 work is done?
[2008/04/19 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: well guys, I gotta go
[2008/04/19 10:42] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: I am a little concerned that we “go hard” on 4 and THEN find out we’ve screwed up something else – since we seem to have a strong consensus to move FAST on 4
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: Ta Roc
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: well, that has to do with my second question
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: when we look at the CN map
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: which is the one in the middle of the grid
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: we have a high density area to the west
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: teh CN city proper
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: and to the east
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: we have lower densities… villas, etc
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: The 4th sim WG feels
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: that a better option to accomodate the 4th sim
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: would be CN-West
[2008/04/19 10:44] You: ah
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: for two reasons
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: 1. we can make a denser area to the north, which is a natural following of the city density
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: 2. if you watch the river
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: you will see that it cuts CN-West in two at insertion point
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: this *could* allow
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: a denser area to the north… city
[2008/04/19 10:46] Moon Adamant: and a less dense area to the south… bigger plots… perhaps no streets but paths only
[2008/04/19 10:46] Moon Adamant: which could make the linkage to the future AM-West simpler
[2008/04/19 10:46] You: so it’s sort of a placement issue. OK, helpful to hear. I’d frame that as a second possible Guild recommendation, i.e., would the RA mind if we put dense sim 4 on the other side of CN? Now, if that’s what you bring back to the RA next week, another Q that may some up then is this: how urgently must we act like Desmond does in Caledon to reserve/buy some strategic nearby map squares — to protect our regional footprint? And if there are issues there, do we need to move faster on some voids if the CN urban extension goes east versus west?
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: i will ask Symo to comment further, in case i forgot something
[2008/04/19 10:47] You: forgive the typos
[2008/04/19 10:47] You: (thanks for your patience, all, I know I’m finding this very helpful)
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: well, if you look at the map
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: you will see that CN -West or East defend exactly the same territory
[2008/04/19 10:48] Moon Adamant: we’re not playing checkerboards… space is empty around CN
[2008/04/19 10:48] You: ok – o THIS one decision is not too strategicaly consequential 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: issues will happen when we start expanding the NFS cluster to south and East
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: from a map-minding point of view
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: no, none at all
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: yes, that’s where I personally fret about needing voids soon, too
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: those you can indeed place like pawns
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: Sonja, any questions before we let these nice patient people go?
[2008/04/19 10:50] Sonja Strom: No, but I would like to thank them for all of the work they have put into this project. :-0
[2008/04/19 10:50] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: I second that 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: ehehe
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: our pleasure
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: Anything else from the Guild for now?
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: let me resume then
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: atm: faculty elections are occuring
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: masterplan is full speed
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: tahnks to Symo 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: sim 4 is going, i am expecting that people start presenting layouts
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: hmmm
[2008/04/19 10:51] Symo Kurka: .. and tons of volunteers
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: we are currently also discussing how to adapt the Guild
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: in the light of the Draft Analysis/Beathan’s proposal
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: plus tons of other projects
[2008/04/19 10:52] You: the Guild has advised the RA that we will receive some charter change proposals eventuaslly, so we’ll wait for you to come back to us, on that
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: those are being drafted atm
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: May I ask – about the faculty elections
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: they will have to be presented to the Faculty and Board
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: approved there
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: and then approved by you
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: sure
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: there’s some inept wordsin the Constitution abot rotatioons and timing election to try and make sure we give people opportunities to serve in one place or the otyher
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: the spirit seems clear, though .. and …
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: the new charter will have conflict of interest clauses too
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: is that what you mean?
[2008/04/19 10:54] You: it seems sort of unfortunate that a faculty election closing the 24th April might prevent you from electing from any of the 5 RA candidates now running — of which we will only get 2 for the RA. How’s that work?
[2008/04/19 10:54] You: no — I am thinking about election timing, not confliucts
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: well, atm
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: 🙂 I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:55] You: If I were a candidate of RA in this b-election, does that *prevent* me from joining the faculty, if I lose on the 26th?
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: could run for RA and for Faculty Chair
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/19 10:55] You: or can one be both?
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: let me explain
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: The Board, as you know is an ad-hoc democracy
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: who’s there, votes
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: the Faculty is more like teh SC
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: it’s a meritocracy
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: and peopel get invited to be Faculty members
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: and are voted in
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: atm, teh Faculty is small
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: as i say, only Dnate is in the position you mention
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: BUT
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: even if he is elected to the RA
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: that doesn’t stop him from being a faculty member
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: ah OK
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: so in summary, no immediate problems under current law
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: good, that’s all I was wondering
[2008/04/19 10:58] You: and thank you again, both for your work, and or your patiene today
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: btw, Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: a workgroup that has been created
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: is to study current gov spaces
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: and better them/increase them
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: give an office to teh chancellor, a meeting room for the SC
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: Ah ha. That sounds lie a good idea. And I recall the thread about an office for Alexi and Arria. May we adjourn officially? And then if there’a a desire to chat, that can be done informally

[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: increase teh seating space in the rathaus, etc
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: sure, i second
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: ha ha
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: OK we are adjoruned

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: April 26, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS
2. LRA Bill(s) (25 mins.: 09h15-09h40)
— Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817
— MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
— Mt’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— Jamie’s oroiginal proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
3. Conflict of Interest, etc. (25 mins.: 09h40-10h05)
— Citizen bill from PMR Walpole: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
4. Private Development Proposal, planning progress (20 mins.: 10h05-10h25)
[expected to be discussion only] — reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628
5. Commerce Commission recommendations (20 mins.: 10h25-10h45)
[expected to be discussion only] — reference : viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611

NEW ITEMS
6. Parliamentarian etc. (5 mins.: 10h40-10h45)
7. Other?
8. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00

Summary

26 April 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1833
===
[09:14] Called to order.
[09:15] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:16] 1b – Agenda reviewed and approved.
[09:17] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:18] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:19] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
[09:22] 1f – Consent agenda. (No items.)
[09:30] 2 – LRA designation after by-election
— Discussion of MT Lundquist bill [09:25]. Motion [09:41] and second [09:41] but withdrawn [09:45]. Motion [09:46] and second [09:46] to approve bill but withdrawn [10:01].
[10:09] 3 – Conflicts of interest.
— Discussion of PMR Walpole bill. Motion [10:31] and second [10:35] to enact of that (NonCumulations of Mandates) bill with a modifed para 3. Clarification of text at [10:33].
—- Motion maded [10:47] and seconded [10:48] to amend bill to remove para 1 (term limits) of bill. Amendment approved 4-0-0. [11:09] — Further discussion about possible redrafting at [11:12].
— Motion rejected: 1-0-2 [11:16].
[11:23] Adjourned.

Transcript

====
Transcript of 25 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items

====
[2008/04/26 8:59] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/44/82/123
[2008/04/26 9:00] You: Good morning.
[2008/04/26 9:00] You: Or whatever’s applicable MT 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:01] MT Lundquist: afternoon lol
[2008/04/26 9:01] You: Jon, how are you?
[2008/04/26 9:01] Jon Seattle: Hi Jamie 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:01] Jon Seattle: too busy 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:01] ThePrincess Parisi: exuse me please
[2008/04/26 9:01] Serra Anansi gave you To JPalisades: From his humble servant, Miss Serra.
[2008/04/26 9:01] Moon Adamant: hello everyone.
[2008/04/26 9:02] You: Let me take a second and send pings in the appropriate directions 🙂 Good morning Prin
[2008/04/26 9:02] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[2008/04/26 9:02] Jon Seattle: chat lag
[2008/04/26 9:02] You: Moon 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:02] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[2008/04/26 9:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to be sort of excused a mintue jame sorry
[2008/04/26 9:02] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/04/26 9:03] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:03] Justice Soothsayer: Hi
[2008/04/26 9:03] You: 🙂 hello all – a moment while IMs are flying, please
[2008/04/26 9:04] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/04/26 9:05] Moon Adamant: hi Justice 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:05] You: Right. Waiting for Prin to return from BrB I think
[2008/04/26 9:06] You: I’ve pinged Beathan; Sonja gave regrets and is busy with RL commitments all weekend I think
[2008/04/26 9:06] You: the proposed agenda is here:
[2008/04/26 9:07] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816
[2008/04/26 9:08] Yogeswari Padar: hi guys
[2008/04/26 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/04/26 9:08] Jon Seattle: Hi Yoge 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: While not yet in session, let me note two other things informally
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: (hello all)
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: 1. Polls close today
[2008/04/26 9:09] You: and 2. There’s been some chat in the Forums about whether we ought to meet today (i.e., before they do)
[2008/04/26 9:09] Jon Seattle had better pay attention to #1 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:09] MT Lundquist: when do the polls close
[2008/04/26 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: back
[2008/04/26 9:09] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT
[2008/04/26 9:09] Justice Soothsayer: 2 hours 51 mins
[2008/04/26 9:09] You: Just informationally, Jon, do you basically dump the DB results to Clauide at the end of the polling period? How’s that actually work?
[2008/04/26 9:09] MT Lundquist: back in a minute
[2008/04/26 9:10] MT Lundquist: i need to vote
[2008/04/26 9:10] You: We have BV and TPP, and MT’s out for a sec 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:10] Jon Seattle: Well, I download the votes and run the program that does the calculations. I then send the whole package, votes, program, and results to Claude via email.
[2008/04/26 9:10] You: thanks for the clarification
[2008/04/26 9:10] Beathan Vale: I’m not out
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: yes, and hello Beathan
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: soon as MT returns I suggest we begin – or in 3 mins if earlier
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: let’s see. hm. Let me ask a delicate question – but one which is meant for constructive reasons.
[2008/04/26 9:12] Jon Seattle listens
[2008/04/26 9:12] You: Jon, there’ve been various bills and proposed bills about ‘voting security’ and the like. Nevertheless, if in future times we get into policy chats about the voting rules — are any of the former results availability in detail in anonymized form? The sort of data that would allow multiple dispassionate people to say, ah, if we changed the rule *thus*, the results would have been “X”. …?
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: I just don;t know if we destroy them, or archive them, or what.
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: Ah, the votes I download will have no identifiers and be in random order
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: Claude can release them if he wishes
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: I support releasing them, and also the program that does the calculations
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: so the data’s available, in short, if the various partries wished. Got it.
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: thanks
[2008/04/26 9:14] Jon Seattle: Indeed.
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: Hm – did we lose ThePrincess?
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: I will IM her then call us to order.
—-
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: OK, a litle slow, but we are called to order.
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: agenda here – /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: subject to the members 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: 1a – Would all present please assent to being included in the transcript – I assent.
[2008/04/26 9:15] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/26 9:15] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/26 9:15] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/26 9:16] MT Lundquist: i assent and apologise for being temporarily absent
[2008/04/26 9:16] You: Thank you ..will need recording assents from Beathan and Yogi
[2008/04/26 9:16] Beathan Vale: assent
—-
[2008/04/26 9:16] You: 1b
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: Any propsoed changes to agenda as posted? I note several itesm *may* be either just quick discussion, or skipped today
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: not hearing any
—-
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: 1c …
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: any citizens (nonRA members) who want to get in queue now for any of the posted agenda items?
[2008/04/26 9:18] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: not hearing any, that’s fine
—-
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: 1d
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting — but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
—-
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: 1e
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: Future meetings (smile)
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: I’ve proposed, on the Forums, that I poll the 7 members as soon as the byelection results are announced
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: and post the results and proposed a next meeting
[2008/04/26 9:20] Jamie Palisades smiles and shrugs – any thoughts?
[2008/04/26 9:20] Beathan Vale: good proposal
[2008/04/26 9:20] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: Some may note that Arria used a free web polling device to set the debate time, as between the participants
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: 🙂 I will see if I can adapt that
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: one more comment
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: I would like to see us stick with a fixed time – and I would DEARLY like to see us go biweekly
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: Your interim LRA thinks he is seeing evidence of meeting fatigue 😀
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: but this is a matter for the 7 seated reps to sort out, shortly 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:21] Beathan Vale: it’s been a rather bruising session
[2008/04/26 9:22] MT Lundquist: i agree we wait until the 7 are seated
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: Indeed. And thanks. Anything else on meetings?
—-
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: 1f then
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: which is consent items
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: and I have none. Anyone?
[2008/04/26 9:23] Beathan Vale: Any opposition to Conflict of interest?
[2008/04/26 9:23] MT Lundquist: none
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: Hmn – there are 2 or 3 bills BV, so I have a slot for it on this agenda
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: I suspect at least some chat will be needed
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: also Prin should be here for that if possible
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: I put the LRA bill next, as that might read directly on the pending elections …
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: which also is true about C of I
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: .. so…
—-
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: 2
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: LRA
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: shiuaakss
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: by way of procedure
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont wanna go every other week
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: (:) WB TPP)
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks i will leave again
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: none of nucare voted
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: OK, let’s chat with new RA about that
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i htought we had til next week
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: eh?
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: w.e i dont care
[2008/04/26 9:25] Jamie Palisades smiles …
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: item 2
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: LRA bills
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: we have the March bill
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: (see mny agenda – the URI is in there)
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: and mT has updated it
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: well its been posted on the forum
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i know
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: as people have seen and commented
[2008/04/26 9:26] You: this week, yes, so that’s the first one we take up I think
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: there are 2 proposals
[2008/04/26 9:26] You: Your ball, MT
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: both intended to balance power in cds
[2008/04/26 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: whos out of order jamie or MT
[2008/04/26 9:26] Jamie Palisades smiles and points to MT as the person who has the floor, and this bill
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: the first is to ensure that the ra is led by consent of ra members
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: ensuring that the RA meetings are constructive and benificial to CDS
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: the second is to balance the power to citizens
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: to ensure they have a direct voice in government and to balance the power of the ra to some extent
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: so election of lra by the ra
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: and direct election of chancellor by citizens as one package
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: oh
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: and the bill has been discussed by most ra factions before the final version was draw up
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: may i answer one of justices comments
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: on the forum
[2008/04/26 9:29] You: certainly
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he didnt see a motivation that was constructive for interwtwining the two
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and he said ……….
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: that it was for devisive purposes
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: but..
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the reason is the two balance each other
[2008/04/26 9:30] Yogeswari Padar: point of order
[2008/04/26 9:30] Beathan Vale: intertwining the two was at my insistence — because I did not want to take away a role that served the entire CDS in an elected rather than selected capacity without replacing it with a similar role
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and that only one
[2008/04/26 9:30] Yogeswari Padar: the person you are quoting is “way” at present
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks beathan
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: quoting?
[2008/04/26 9:31] Yogeswari Padar: perhaps you could wait until he returns?
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the forum
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: common pooliteness 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: let justice speak also
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im sure he can read back
[2008/04/26 9:31] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and speak when he returnes
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you moon
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: i hold my peace :9
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie should i wait
[2008/04/26 9:32] You: Prin? You have any more for now? Justice can speak if & when he wishes
[2008/04/26 9:32] You: You;re here, it;s on the record 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want ppl to know clearly that our motivation was not as accused by the opposition
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: on the forums
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: for log rolling
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: but infact to GIVE to the people
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: the power they deserve
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: amen
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ad the LRA loses a bit of control, via the largest faction
[2008/04/26 9:33] You: ok. Done?
[2008/04/26 9:33] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the ppl can choose that he
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: Chanellor
[2008/04/26 9:33] Beathan Vale: < --- needs coffee -- brb [2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: has that power and more [2008/04/26 9:33] Beathan Vale: but first -- I move that we continue this one week [2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and that the chancellor does NOT have to be tied for the sake of theRA vote [2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: it gives the popluatoin MORE choice [2008/04/26 9:34] Beathan Vale: it is a Constitutional amendment and we lack the attendance needed to pass such without SC scrutiny [2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: More power [2008/04/26 9:34] Beathan Vale: and Lord preserve us from SC scrutiny 😉 [2008/04/26 9:34] You: hm [2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and MORE influence on their community and their government [2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: for the record [2008/04/26 9:34] MT Lundquist: i thought we have 7 day vote [2008/04/26 9:35] You: let's let TP finish her remarks, then deal with that, BV [2008/04/26 9:35] MT Lundquist: then we have 5 [2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: as our absent RA person knows and believes [2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: should be [2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am done [2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks [2008/04/26 9:36] You: OK thanks. I have a few procedural items, and BV's suggestion. Can we move straight to those, before more chat about the substance? [2008/04/26 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi Gwyn [2008/04/26 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:36] Yogeswari Padar: hi gwyn! [2008/04/26 9:36] You: (Yogi, Gwyn, please assent to recording.) [2008/04/26 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: jon? [2008/04/26 9:36] You: MT, I have a question, just for clarity -- Your post (thread 1806 from 23 April) looks like it has two parts - a bill headed "Election of LRA by the members of the RA" .. with the actual text after the line "Amendment" ... and then, some lines down, a second part headed "Direct Election of Chancellor".. again, with specific amending language after the explanation. SO: do I have it right that you are moving to enact both halves at once? Just want to make sure 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent [2008/04/26 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, record at will, Mr LRA! [2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: yes the aim is to have both together [2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: as one bill [2008/04/26 9:37] You: OK. [2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: i just separated it for clarity [2008/04/26 9:37] Beathan Vale: I have indicated that I am opposed to considering them separately [2008/04/26 9:38] You: Thanks. Good to have that clear. "Package deal." But before you have made a motion to adopt it - which we haven't had yet - Beathan moved to delay it a week. I think? [2008/04/26 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: because when you take one away you give it to the other [2008/04/26 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: so they ahve to be the same [2008/04/26 9:38] You: Beathan? Are you suggesting a delay to next meeting? [2008/04/26 9:38] Beathan Vale: if both the Chancellor and the LRA has an electoral mandate -- it is unclear who is electoral head of state; if neither do, we have no person represented the entire CDS [2008/04/26 9:38] Beathan Vale: I think so -- we should have 5 in attendance then [2008/04/26 9:39] MT Lundquist: why would the 7 day vote not count [2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: if we pass this 4 with 1 abstain -- it is not a clear Constit vote [2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: well -- a 7 day vote could do it too [2008/04/26 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: whos abstaining [2008/04/26 9:39] You: OK just to clarify, note that without 5 votes in favor, some of our more, er, conservative, rightwiong legalists 😀 might dispute that a constitutional amendment is effective [2008/04/26 9:39] You: hm [2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: Sonja not here -- and I was not aware that anyone had requested a 7 day vote [2008/04/26 9:39] You: Prin? Here's the thing: Sonja did not request a 7 day vote [2008/04/26 9:40] Walking Sounds Copy/Trans SFD V2 copy mod trans: Couldn't find sound 1 [2008/04/26 9:40] You: and so far as I know -- help me out here people, the 7 day rule predates me -- no one but the member can ask for a 7 day hold for that person. Si? [2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes [2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i ask for this for sonja [2008/04/26 9:40] Beathan Vale: I think that we can even set a 7 day vote for ourselves if we want more time [2008/04/26 9:40] You: kk so we can have four votes today, or 5 to 7 next nmeeting, I guess [2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ok [2008/04/26 9:40] You: hmm [2008/04/26 9:41] Beathan Vale: so -- I amend my motion to allow for a seven day vote [2008/04/26 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and we dont have to vote at all if we dont want [2008/04/26 9:41] MT Lundquist: seconf bv [2008/04/26 9:41] You: Ok, good, we have a motion and second 🙂 Jamie likes clarity of process [2008/04/26 9:41] You: now [2008/04/26 9:42] You: BV as motion proponent, tell me 😀 if we, a quorate 4-out-of-5 RA enter a 7 day vote today, 2 hours before polls close ... [2008/04/26 9:42] You: ... then 7 days later, we get 4 of 5 votes in a 7-member RA ... [2008/04/26 9:42] You: 🙂 I have two questions [2008/04/26 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn 's mind explodes. [2008/04/26 9:42] Beathan Vale: ah -- I see [2008/04/26 9:42] Beathan Vale: yeah -- that is a serious problem -- better to just wait a week [2008/04/26 9:42] You: Indeed. Keep the shrapnel please 😀 ... (1) can the new 2 vote? and [2008/04/26 9:43] You: (2) wouldn't the 2/3rds be 5, then, anyway, due to the 7 seats been filled? 😀 [2008/04/26 9:43] You: yah [2008/04/26 9:43] You: you may withdraw your motion, or we can vote on it 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i need a few seconds sorry [2008/04/26 9:43] Beathan Vale: yes -- but I think that the SC is ready to rule that 2/3 is 5 in any case [2008/04/26 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: can we hold a second [2008/04/26 9:43] You: NP - I think we all do [2008/04/26 9:44] Beathan Vale: I would rather not have the leadership of the RA held in the balance on a Cosntitutional test case [2008/04/26 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i would [2008/04/26 9:44] Beathan Vale: lol [2008/04/26 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well i would [2008/04/26 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn would side with Beathan too [2008/04/26 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and why, Princess?? [2008/04/26 9:45] You: 🙂 then you can each vote differently 🙂 May I suggest that Beathan, then Prin, then any citizens, speak for up to 2 mins., then we vote? [2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its a good bil [2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont want to second guess SC and not do it because of that [2008/04/26 9:45] You: the motion being, 7 day hold [2008/04/26 9:45] Beathan Vale: I withdraw my motion [2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i KNOW that it is exactly what sonja sings all day [2008/04/26 9:45] You: ok [2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: that the people get the power [2008/04/26 9:45] Beathan Vale: let's just vote on the bill -- it will be confusin no matter what we do [2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: DPU and sonja are for letting the ppl have a say [2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and this does that [2008/04/26 9:46] You: That would work [2008/04/26 9:46] MT Lundquist: ok i propose the bill [2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats why [2008/04/26 9:46] You: either we vote now - or not, kids. MT or Prin, do you wish to move the adoption of MT's bill at this time? [2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: but im only one person [2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: well sort of two [2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: but really one [2008/04/26 9:46] Beathan Vale: and if we can't pass it now -- for some reason -- we can revise it and try again [2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe three or four [2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: second [2008/04/26 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 [2008/04/26 9:47] Jamie Palisades smiles: ah - we have amotion and second (perks up) [2008/04/26 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i said second [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: it was just in a bunch of number talk [2008/04/26 9:48] You: any one wish to speak further to it? I do, but will wait my turn if there are others [2008/04/26 9:48] You: 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want to say that i think this is crucial to our survival and our call to make sure the population [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: has a great deal of power choice and control over the government [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a movee,ent in that direction [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: it follows the evolution of CDS [2008/04/26 9:48] You: (me notes Prin, then Gwyn, then me, so far) [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: the old way is archaic [2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion [2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and the new way takes in to consideration our new found participation [2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: stable membership [2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and growth [2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: .. ill stop [2008/04/26 9:49] You: TY. Gwyn? [2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I just wanted to underline, [2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that no matter what gets decided today (or not) [2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's ALWAYS better to have a decision by the RA [2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which becomes an amendment -- or law [2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: instead of relying on the SC to "interpret" things. [2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: uh um [2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: ALWAYS [2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So as a matter of principle, I'd always recommend voting on laws/amendments instead of leaving things "Undefined".... [2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: is never true [2008/04/26 9:51] You: sh 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, always, Princess. The will of the people should be more impÂºortant than the will of a few 😉 [2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that's all, thank you Mr LRA 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:51] Beathan Vale: in this case, "Always" might be true [2008/04/26 9:51] You: others? Prin? [2008/04/26 9:51] You: Beathan? MT? [2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the SC should not be there then? no i think clarifying things is sometimes necessary [2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and i think that her assumptions are false [2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: so her statement is false too [2008/04/26 9:52] Beathan Vale: TP - necessary -- but it is better if the RA is clear and complete [2008/04/26 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: we are not saying that the RA wont decide this [2008/04/26 9:52] Beathan Vale: interpretation of the law is always more messy than law making [2008/04/26 9:52] Moon Adamant: her? [2008/04/26 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that's a logical fallacy, Princess, if my assumptions are false, everything which I say is true 😉 [2008/04/26 9:52] Moon Adamant: sorry, who? [2008/04/26 9:52] Yogeswari Padar is confused [2008/04/26 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'll leave the mathematical proof as an exercise 🙂 ) [2008/04/26 9:52] You: 🙂 a little free chat here probably is no harm, but does anyone have any *new* points relevant to the motion? [2008/04/26 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i think you are being quite disrespectful gwyen [2008/04/26 9:53] Jamie Palisades looks around [2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: and inapporpriate and i call fro a [2008/04/26 9:53] Beathan Vale: call the question [2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: warneing of her [2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: im in an RA seat and i expect you to not talk to me that way here [2008/04/26 9:53] You: Prin I could not tell if you had more to say about the motion, ... [2008/04/26 9:53] You: but on the point of order [2008/04/26 9:53] You: I thikn we can stop now without action, if we all stop not 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont but i dont apprecaitae that from the gallery [2008/04/26 9:53] You: now [2008/04/26 9:53] Moon Adamant has heard no unpoliteness [2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and you too moon [2008/04/26 9:54] Yogeswari Padar hasn't either [2008/04/26 9:54] You: OK. Prin;s objection to Gwyn's comment is noted. Can we move on? [2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: that faction knows no way to act but to attack [2008/04/26 9:54] You: ... [2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: sick of it [2008/04/26 9:54] You: ... [2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: on [2008/04/26 9:54] You: right, thx [2008/04/26 9:54] You: I woud like to speak on the motion [2008/04/26 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmativ ... ve_premise (I can't argue against facts) [2008/04/26 9:54] You: 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:54] You: Gwyn hush [2008/04/26 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:55] You: smile not, smart pants, you shouldn;t interrupt either 🙂 [2008/04/26 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's called "defense of honour", Mr LRA. [2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer: back [2008/04/26 9:55] You: well hm - do we have the Code Duello in force yet? ..... [2008/04/26 9:55] You: OK [2008/04/26 9:55] You: Justice - [2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer: yes, Jamie? [2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer scrolls back [2008/04/26 9:56] You: we have a motion and second to approve MT's bill, and you had comment son the forum about it. Do you wish to speak to therm? 2 mins - I will wait my turn, as you were gone. [2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: thanks Jamie [2008/04/26 9:56] You: then I;d like to talk. Then I;d like to get other comments, and *vote* [2008/04/26 9:56] You: go pls [2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: I will refer all to my forum post. I think this should be 2 separate bills. [2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: At this time, it might make sense to move forward with the LRA bill. [2008/04/26 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: But direct election of the chancellor is such a fundamental altering of our representative democracy that I think it would make more sense for a fuller debate [2008/04/26 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: engaging all of the citizenry. [2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer: And giving the proponents to fully explain what may be broken that should be fixed. [2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for listening. [2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer returns the floor to Jamie [2008/04/26 9:58] You: thx [2008/04/26 9:58] You: OK. My comments - noting that we are over time, but I won;t aks the RA to extend formally unless anyone else has comments after mine, and we just have our vote and close it out. [2008/04/26 9:59] You: I like the bill. I think we should go in that direction. But I think it's unseemly to make a big big set of constitutional changes like that *just* before we have our 2 new members seated. Not illegeal! We DO have that power in my view. Just unwise, as a policy matter. [2008/04/26 9:59] You: it might *look* to some like we're playing keep-away with it and keeping the newly seated members from voicing views. [2008/04/26 9:59] You: So I will abstain when we vote - which has this affect [2008/04/26 9:59] You: 1. The thre eof you still can pass this now [2008/04/26 9:59] You: 2. It might be a valid constitutional amendment [2008/04/26 10:00] You: 3. Though some troglo - er - conservativ - er - long time membes may argue to the SC differently [2008/04/26 10:00] You: 4 I think they'd be wrong 🙂 but I'm not on the SC - or even the frctaion of it that would, in any decent world, not be recused [2008/04/26 10:00] You: and finally [2008/04/26 10:01] MT Lundquist: if you are about to abstain Jamie then i with draw the bill this week and ask that it is considered next weekwhen your objections are removed by events [2008/04/26 10:01] You: That's fine with me, but up to you [2008/04/26 10:01] Beathan Vale: good [2008/04/26 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thank u [2008/04/26 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i would likek to speak still to what justice says [2008/04/26 10:01] Beathan Vale: but I do want to address Justice's comments briefly before we move on [2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: and that one, someone voting for RA seats.. will not necesarrily vote teh samae faction in a vote for chancellor and infact the chancelor can be no faction so that point is moot [2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: also they are intwined cos one takes power away and one gives it back [2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: done bV [2008/04/26 10:02] You: ok then [2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: hehee [2008/04/26 10:02] You: any more chat on this item at this time? [2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: bv does [2008/04/26 10:02] Beathan Vale: the measures are intertwined at my insistence for these reasons [2008/04/26 10:02] Beathan Vale: yes -- me [2008/04/26 10:03] You: And Prin, right? [2008/04/26 10:03] You: BV first please [2008/04/26 10:03] Beathan Vale: First, with regard to direct election of chancellor -- this is not an undebated item [2008/04/26 10:03] You: oh hang on - sorry 😛 I forgot - we are way over time. Any RA memebr object to a 5 minute extenion? (If not, please talk BV) [2008/04/26 10:03] Beathan Vale: by my reckoning, we have actively, as a community, debated this change for three RA terms [2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: the need for the change became most apparent this term -- when there appears to have been some strange machinations and unseemly horsetrading in the Chancellor election [2008/04/26 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* [2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: not sure what happened -- but it seemed strange [2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: but the larger point it is that historically the LRA has had the role of elected head of state -- has the best claim to an electoral mandate [2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: that is an important role -- but changin the way the LRA is selected will remove tht role [2008/04/26 10:05] MT Lundquist: raises hand [2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: we should not remove it without replacing it -- thus my insistence of linking the LRA change with the direct election of Chancellor [2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: done [2008/04/26 10:05] You: (I have BV, then Prin, then MT) [2008/04/26 10:05] You: Prin? [2008/04/26 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: im done [2008/04/26 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i did mine while you were thinking [2008/04/26 10:05] You: kk [2008/04/26 10:05] You: 🙂 MT [2008/04/26 10:06] You: anything more? [2008/04/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: a final point the current election of the chancellor is made by ra mambers [2008/04/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: these members are by definition faction members [2008/04/26 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but [2008/04/26 10:07] MT Lundquist: the election of the chancellor can have non faction participants [2008/04/26 10:07] MT Lundquist: so i believe that moving to direct elections will allow better opportunities for independant candidates [2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: well its more than that [2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: its a fatal flaw [2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: it means that the independent by justices logic [2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: has NO [2008/04/26 10:08] You: any more on this one? [2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: NO chance of becomeing chancellor [2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: so it MUST be tpu the peopel [2008/04/26 10:09] You: sorry 🙂 can we limit any further to 60 secs? we atre way over time [2008/04/26 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: the ppl must vote for chancellor if we have ppl who can run for chanceloor who are not factin meembers [2008/04/26 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: done [2008/04/26 10:09] You: ok [2008/04/26 10:09] You: next item hm? ---- [2008/04/26 10:09] You: 3 [2008/04/26 10:09] You: conflicts of interest [2008/04/26 10:10] You: we have a number of threads going, let me just indetiofy them [2008/04/26 10:10] You: 1. a PMRobert Walpole citizen bill, discussed at 12 APril meeting [2008/04/26 10:10] You: and Sonja made the point then that it might actually be 2 bills [2008/04/26 10:10] You: 2. My proposal also mentioned them [2008/04/26 10:10] You: then [2008/04/26 10:11] You: (URI in the agenda today) [2008/04/26 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: well i have a problem with term linits [2008/04/26 10:11] You: 3. a comment from the debates - [2008/04/26 10:11] You: about maybe changing the oath of office. [2008/04/26 10:11] You: OK done with the landscape. Comments? Motions? Prin? [2008/04/26 10:11] You: comments on term limits? [2008/04/26 10:11] Moon Adamant: afk [2008/04/26 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: well [2008/04/26 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i am not really sure about this for all of us.. id like to know what pl think.. my faction has them already [2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: term limits i mean [2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the rest i am very good with [2008/04/26 10:13] You: If you are done, let me ask - is anyone planning to ask for a bill to be brought by motion today? I'm not - and if no-one is this, can be a short chat 🙂 [2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the limitation of switching roles [2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: like i think that what gwyen and justice just did is awful [2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and completly morally unethical [2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and also should be illegal [2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: yes [2008/04/26 10:14] Moon Adamant: back [2008/04/26 10:14] You: I'd expect they may wish to respond -- just to be clear, you mean running for RA while sitting on SC, I assume [2008/04/26 10:14] Beathan Vale: I have one comment [2008/04/26 10:14] You: Is Prin done? [2008/04/26 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: she is for now [2008/04/26 10:15] You: OK, BV? [2008/04/26 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (me next?) [2008/04/26 10:15] You: (OK) [2008/04/26 10:15] Beathan Vale: I oppose passing the commulative mandates bill as presented until after this election -- as doing so would cast doubt on most of the candidacies [2008/04/26 10:16] Beathan Vale: I also don't think that it is such an awful thing for a person holding one office to run for another -- that seems routine -- although such person should recuse from official acts concerning the election in which they are a candidate [2008/04/26 10:16] Beathan Vale: however, I also see no problem with putting the kind of restrictions Walpole proposes in place -- in the future [2008/04/26 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: but they didnt [2008/04/26 10:17] You: (I think Beathan's still talking) [2008/04/26 10:17] Beathan Vale: In the passed -- we have had too much turnover in government; we appear more stable at the moment -- so I see no reason not to create a revolving door process [2008/04/26 10:17] Beathan Vale: that is all [2008/04/26 10:17] You: (I have Gwyn, then Prin if she has more.) [2008/04/26 10:17] You: Gwyneth? [2008/04/26 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well [2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not sure if I have much to add after Beathan's comment, but basically: [2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) For the record, nothing forbids people to *quit* one branch of Government to go to another [2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they feel they can do more productive work there. [2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both Justice and myself resigned from the SC. [2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And so did Pat, before he became LRA [2008/04/26 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi hold us her hand [2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) For the record too, I'm also fully supportive of better rules [2008/04/26 10:19] Beathan Vale: actaully Pat overlapped as a nonvoting member of the SC for quite a spell while on the RA [2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to clearly define how "terms" are counted [2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, technically, yes, beathan, but the SC did not met [2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) my only concern is just one: the elections are over in an hour and a half [2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: eliminating candidates one hour and a half before the polls close is a BIT out of order 🙂 [2008/04/26 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and .. indeed you and just ice qit but only AFTER you had voted for laws that ALLOWED yu and your faction to do what you did.. and mde the laws to make it happen [2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, then again, the RA has all the power to do it. [2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for interrupting me again, Princess. I appreciate it. [2008/04/26 10:20] You: ... [2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And thanks, LRA, I'm finished. [2008/04/26 10:21] You: Interruptions do see to be a plague here [2008/04/26 10:21] You: and as Prin points out I;m not immune either [2008/04/26 10:21] You: any other comments on this? [2008/04/26 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: for the record the citizens need to be clear and research your "facts" gwyen [2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you were in the SC making rules as you were at the same time .. you [2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you were listining in on faction meetings voting [2008/04/26 10:22] Beathan Vale: I want to propose an amendment removing paragraph 3 from the noncummulation bill [2008/04/26 10:22] You: hmmmm [2008/04/26 10:22] Moon Adamant: that's a serious accusation [2008/04/26 10:22] You: hang on all for a sec please [2008/04/26 10:22] You: ty [2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and then making rules that let you run for a seat that many think you should not be ale to do [2008/04/26 10:22] You: now [2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i know [2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i only said [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: rsearch [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: dont believe blindly [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen has twisted some things [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: lsten moon [2008/04/26 10:23] Beathan Vale: I want to replace it with "this bill shall come into effect at the end of the current term of the RA; all terms of office shall coincide with the term in the RA [2008/04/26 10:23] You: Prin is noting a personal objection to anyone who acts as SC election adminbistrator and RA candidate in a ballot simultaneously ... [2008/04/26 10:23] You: I think that observation of Prin's is perfectly appropriate in a legislative body [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: now that pat is gone.. i have the............. [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: most votes by citizens, i bevlie i am called to say what i think [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i am supposed to say what i think [2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and thats what i think [2008/04/26 10:24] You: but let's not beat it to death by reptetition, or departing from polite tones [2008/04/26 10:24] You: I thikn Prin's had her say [2008/04/26 10:24] Moon Adamant: i can but agree with the LRA [2008/04/26 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who did "acts as SC election adminbistrator and RA candidate in a ballot simultaneously"? [2008/04/26 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: its the truth that gwyen was in the SC and in the faction causeing our disruption this term making rules that allower HER to run for RA [2008/04/26 10:24] You: and I invite Gwyn or Justice tpo say anythign else by way of appropriaet rebuttal if they wish - then let;s get to process and BV's point [2008/04/26 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: was that false gwyen.. no it wasnt [2008/04/26 10:24] You: Prin can you please say yuor final word now and then indicate you;re done [2008/04/26 10:25] You: (my alternative is to go to 60 sec time limits and ejections .. of anyone 🙂 ... or ask the RA to adjourn immediately) [2008/04/26 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope all the citizens know the truth and seeek it out thats all im done [2008/04/26 10:25] You: Thanks. [2008/04/26 10:25] You: Gwyn did you have something else brief? [2008/04/26 10:25] Justice Soothsayer: thanks, Jamie. I'll just say that Gwyn and I both became candidates AFTER the SC decided the challenge to the by-election - which, by the way, we upheld what the RA did. Nothing further from me. [2008/04/26 10:25] You: acknowl, Justice [2008/04/26 10:26] Jamie Palisades waits for more, and sees none [2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like just to know who was at the same time a candidate for the RA and a supervisor of the elections... that's all from me too. [2008/04/26 10:26] You: OK. I'd like that to go to Forums please [2008/04/26 10:26] Beathan Vale: Gwyn -- they do that all the time in Zimbabwe [2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks. [2008/04/26 10:26] You: BV. you proposed an amendment [2008/04/26 10:26] You: but we have no motion [2008/04/26 10:26] Beathan Vale: lol -- Florida and Ohio too [2008/04/26 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: that is an irrelevant point to ward off your truth of what you did [2008/04/26 10:26] You: so [2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what *exactly* am I being accused of? [2008/04/26 10:26] Jamie Palisades notes a need for fire extinguishers [2008/04/26 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: not accused of but the FACT [2008/04/26 10:27] You: excuse me all [2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: that you were in teh SC, and the faction making rules.. oh gosh just read back [2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing [2008/04/26 10:27] Beathan Vale: but -- luckily -- our folks are too busy and too ethical [2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: an appearance of conflict of interest ok [2008/04/26 10:27] Beathan Vale: (almost did a Freudian slip and said "too busty" [2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: stop peeking beathan [2008/04/26 10:27] You: Each of Gwyn and Prin is one more out-of-order snipe away from me asking the RA to censure you 🙂 if they refuse, I will simply leave the rom and wish you the best [2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: im done [2008/04/26 10:27] You: I'd advise being slow to comment [2008/04/26 10:28] You: thank you Prin [2008/04/26 10:28] You: Gwyn, you have the floor if you are NOT done [2008/04/26 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to know what the "facts" are of which I'm "accused" of. [2008/04/26 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since either these "facts" exist, and then someone should mention them to the SC, [2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or they don't and then I'll have to file a suit for libel and defamation 😉 [2008/04/26 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi holds up her hand [2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all. [2008/04/26 10:29] You: This is not a court, so my advice is, do not expect resolution here. You disagree. Fine. Take action as you see fit - elsewhere. [2008/04/26 10:29] You: and Gwyn is done. [2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly. [2008/04/26 10:29] You: More from you that's in order, Prin? [2008/04/26 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: the point is you WERE the SC. [2008/04/26 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and id like to end it, make this go to forums [2008/04/26 10:30] You: Seems to me you two are disagreeing on several factual matters - which we will (ahem) NOT resolve here. May we close this topic now. [2008/04/26 10:30] You: We are over time on the agenda item. [2008/04/26 10:30] You: Would any RA members object to us taking 3 more minutes to process Beathan's idea about a motion or amendment? [2008/04/26 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: sok [2008/04/26 10:31] You: if no objetcion, BV - you were amending, but there's no motion. Did you want to move to adopt a piece of the PMRW bill now? [2008/04/26 10:31] Beathan Vale: I move to amend 3 of the cumm mandate bill [2008/04/26 10:32] Beathan Vale: we cannot disqualify candidates an hour befroe the voting closes -- that is crazy -- and disenfranchises many citizens [2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i agree [2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: but we can keep this abuse happening again [2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: from happening [2008/04/26 10:32] Beathan Vale: we can have this going forward -- and we can agree to disagree about what happened -- but let's have the process play out [2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ok [2008/04/26 10:33] You: hmmm - so for clarity, you are moiving that we ADOPT an amended form of the Non-Cumulation of Mandates Act ... which is at ... [2008/04/26 10:33] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1766#p10781 [2008/04/26 10:33] You: but with its para 3 (on effective date) changes so that it only takes effect after the current by-election results seat RA members. Yes? [2008/04/26 10:34] Beathan Vale: yes -- there was some confusion about the rest of the text [2008/04/26 10:35] You: (I looked at the thread and saw no other stated explicit amendments to that text, shrug - so I guess we are going with it as written, except for your effective date amendment) [2008/04/26 10:35] You: ok that's a motion. Do we have a second? [2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i would like to talk about the term limit part [2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean not talk but listen [2008/04/26 10:35] You: hm well - that's not the current motion [2008/04/26 10:35] You: can we do Beathan's part first? [2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: ok [2008/04/26 10:35] You: anyone second it? [2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: second [2008/04/26 10:35] You: OK [2008/04/26 10:36] You: Discussion - on the overlapping-roles bill, basically [2008/04/26 10:36] You: I have a Q 🙂 [2008/04/26 10:36] You: is it a constitutional amendment? [2008/04/26 10:36] MT Lundquist: i would say so [2008/04/26 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: it isnt mentioned in the constitution so why [2008/04/26 10:37] Jamie Palisades gets his lawyer-carnivore thing on and smiles [2008/04/26 10:37] You: I suspect it should not be viewed as constitutional [2008/04/26 10:37] You: but that's up to our -- er -- SC 🙂 ... [2008/04/26 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: lol [2008/04/26 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks for Claude 😉 [2008/04/26 10:38] You: ... who at present has sort of an organic, flexible view about 'founding documents' and what contradicts the spirit of some faint idea from 2006 ... in my personal view 🙂 [2008/04/26 10:38] Beathan Vale: For clarity -- I think that the amended bill would read: Limitation of Terms Act (Second Draft) 1. No citizen shall serve longer than two consecutive terms in any of the following offices: Member of the RA, Chancellorship, Member of the Architectural Control Department (ACD) (if any); Member of the Chamber of Commerce (if any); or Marshall of the Peace. 2. Members of the RA, SC, Chancellorship, Members of the Architectural Control Department (ACD) (if any); Members of the Chamber of Commerce (if any); or Marshalls of the Peace may not stand for another office enumerated in Paragraph 1 while sitting in one such office or in the term immediately following their departure from such office. 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA " -- or somesuch [2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: how do we define a term [2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: if i serve a week and quit [2008/04/26 10:38] Beathan Vale: Also -- we should take out ACD -- as that is no longer part of the private dev bill [2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: is that a term [2008/04/26 10:38] Jamie Palisades lives in a nation with a 'written' constitution as opposed to the tribal, it's-in-my-head UK version [2008/04/26 10:39] Beathan Vale: term is the entire RA session -- not the mere part of the term any givern person chooses to sit [2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well i know the person who wrote it meant othewise [2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i spoke with him abou this [2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we have to define it [2008/04/26 10:40] You: sooo [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: a faction could ..have ppl serve half terms [2008/04/26 10:40] Beathan Vale: serve any part of a term ... [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: and keep the same ppl in over and over [2008/04/26 10:40] You: we have the bill text from BV (thank you) [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you beathan [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think it has to be any part [2008/04/26 10:40] You: it's been moved and seconded [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but i dotn think the probalem is any one office [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its moving to a new one [2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: so you cant padd the RA and move to the SC and rule on things we voted on [2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: take what i saw , in my opinon what gwyen and justice did [2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: what if we pass a law this week [2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: then i move to the SC to vote on its effietiveness [2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: thatts the problem [2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: not beathan being in RA five terms [2008/04/26 10:41] You: personally I thik that since it does NOT affect anycurrently seated positions until after the current electiuon cycle is completed, it;s a good test case for our RA and the SC's viwes about how it wants to read our acts 🙂 [2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its mving from one positoin to the tnext [2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets say i make a bill vote on it, then go ot the sC the next week and rulle what i voted on and worte was good.. thats the problem and thats wrong [2008/04/26 10:42] You: if we vote here and give if 4 votes, it will pass RA - and then SC will be forced (if it acts at all) to both decide whether it's constitutional ... and if so .... whether a 5 member RA can pass a constitutional amendment by 4 votes 🙂 [2008/04/26 10:42] You: I ttink I am agreeing completely with Prin [2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: ok [2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote then [2008/04/26 10:43] You: let me just read BV's text one more time for boobytraps - while I do, any other comments? [2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: can you say booby [2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it a trap [2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry [2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: dont eject me [2008/04/26 10:43] You: ha ha 😛 to you Senator Marilyn Monroe [2008/04/26 10:43] You: or is that a Garbo deal? [2008/04/26 10:44] Beathan Vale: why is English slang for breasts so often the name of birds? booby and tit ... hmmm [2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: lol [2008/04/26 10:44] You: no, no, short witticisms that do not attack people aren't out of order [2008/04/26 10:44] You: hell, arguably without them CDS would grind to a halt [2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: put your lips together and blow [2008/04/26 10:44] You: sigh [2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: theres also great tit [2008/04/26 10:44] You: siiiiiiigh [2008/04/26 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head* [2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: what>
[2008/04/26 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: omg
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: a bird
[2008/04/26 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: are you calling me a bird
[2008/04/26 10:45] You: OK I read it. I have a question. As restated by Beathan this DOES include term limits, yes?
[2008/04/26 10:45] Beathan Vale: yes — term limits were the core of the proposal
[2008/04/26 10:45] Beathan Vale: I have some heartburn about that — but I’m willing to try it
[2008/04/26 10:45] Jamie Palisades rifles back to see who spoke in favor of, and against, term limits
[2008/04/26 10:45] You: may I comment?

[2008/04/26 10:45] MT Lundquist: i think term limits will hurt small factions
[2008/04/26 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie
[2008/04/26 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: you may speak mr. lra
[2008/04/26 10:46] You: on limits (a) I fear that too, MT, (b) they seem on balance to have more potential for harm than good, and (c) I think, if we slay the overlapping roles dragon, term limits aren’t really the problem.
[2008/04/26 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: nods
[2008/04/26 10:46] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/04/26 10:46] You: I do not want to tell EITHER newbies or longtime leaders that they aren’t welcome
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: the latter seems to be sort of inherent in the term limits
[2008/04/26 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/04/26 10:47] Popcorn Box : Butter & Salt mmmmm!
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: so I move to amendm to delete para 1
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: (Hey, up to y’all)
[2008/04/26 10:47] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/04/26 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: yahooo
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: OK. Debate on deleting term limits — for now — so we just would have a no-overlpas bill?
[2008/04/26 10:48] You: we’re over time but I think all are satisfied with what we’re spending time on, unless someone objects
[2008/04/26 10:48] You: no comment son amendment? Just vote?
[2008/04/26 10:48] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/04/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* on a *slight* comment
[2008/04/26 10:48] Beathan Vale: if term limits are a good idea — we can pass them later
[2008/04/26 10:48] You: OK, I have a motion and two seconds 🙂 and Gwyn? 60 secs?
[2008/04/26 10:49] You: on the amendment
[2008/04/26 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On “3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA “”
[2008/04/26 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, the SC has “staggered” elections for Dean â€” deliberately so
[2008/04/26 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi shouts: hi bells.. hurray
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. technically, the SC should be launching *now* the election for the new Dean
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (mid-term)
[2008/04/26 10:50] Beathan Vale: I had in mind the position of member of SC – -not the internal role of Dean
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how will this proposed bill affect the terms of the other branches then?
[2008/04/26 10:50] Beathan Vale: but the SC may be a special case for all terms
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case, the bill cannot contradict the Constitution…
[2008/04/26 10:50] Beathan Vale: true
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Except where stated otherwise, 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA ”
[2008/04/26 10:51] Beathan Vale: so — how about “except for the SC, all terms of governement”
[2008/04/26 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or probably:” 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA except where stated otherwise”
[2008/04/26 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, Beathan, that works too.
[2008/04/26 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: honeslty i think the whole thing is about movement from one branch to another and not in one branch
[2008/04/26 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and it should include the SC
[2008/04/26 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: im against this as it is actually
[2008/04/26 10:52] MT Lundquist: i disagree with all terms of service coinciding
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: 🙂 more discussion?
[2008/04/26 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: nucare is
[2008/04/26 10:52] Justice Soothsayer raises hand
[2008/04/26 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then it’s a Constitutional amendment 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: Gwyn: done?
[2008/04/26 10:52] Beathan Vale: the movement prohibition is not changed — only the length of term provision
[2008/04/26 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Jamie, thank you
[2008/04/26 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: and the faction that wrote the bill isn’t here
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: BV did you have more?
[2008/04/26 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we should wait
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: (then Justice then Prin)
[2008/04/26 10:52] Beathan Vale: let’s put this one off a week and I will draft it based on the comments and amendments
[2008/04/26 10:53] You: OK. Let’s take Justice’s comment?
[2008/04/26 10:53] Justice Soothsayer: Much of the discussion of this bill has been about people moving from the SC to the RA.
[2008/04/26 10:54] Justice Soothsayer: I’d like you to consider the impact of restricting the movement in the other direction.
[2008/04/26 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: RA to SC actually
[2008/04/26 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: well thats what i was talking about justice that was my example
[2008/04/26 10:54] Justice Soothsayer: The current (second draft) would restrict the ability of RA members to join the SC without a cooling-off term
[2008/04/26 10:55] Justice Soothsayer: But I think that recent legislative experience is actually quite helpful to the SC
[2008/04/26 10:55] Justice Soothsayer: If the concern i about voting on legislation in the SC that one has voted upon in the RA, then just pass a bill or rule on recusals.
[2008/04/26 10:56] Justice Soothsayer: I think we should look for the least restrictive means to achieve our goals, not the most restrictive.
[2008/04/26 10:56] Justice Soothsayer bows towards the LRA as a sign that he’s done.
[2008/04/26 10:56] You: done J?
[2008/04/26 10:56] You: thx
[2008/04/26 10:56] Justice Soothsayer: /salute
[2008/04/26 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:57] You: Beathan – you are withdrawing your notion in order to wait a week?
[2008/04/26 10:57] You: do I have that right?
[2008/04/26 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to say that we in nucare do want the cooling off period in place
[2008/04/26 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: asap
[2008/04/26 10:58] You: BV?
[2008/04/26 10:58] Beathan Vale: things move so quickly here — that a one term cooling off period does not mean that tha person lacks recent legislative experience
[2008/04/26 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/04/26 10:58] MT Lundquist: a term is only 6 months
[2008/04/26 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: make it three months then
[2008/04/26 10:58] Beathan Vale: that said — there has been a tradition of movement from the RA to the SC — retiring RA members go to the SC — and that has been very good
[2008/04/26 10:59] Beathan Vale: ::shrug:: I will try to draft a compromise proposal if we agree to put this over a week
[2008/04/26 10:59] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/26 10:59] You: sooo
[2008/04/26 11:00] You: BV
[2008/04/26 11:00] You: motion wthdrawn or not?
[2008/04/26 11:01] You: I think we had a motion – I need to do *something* with it 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:01] Beathan Vale: well — yes — I withdraw my motion and move that we continue debate one week
[2008/04/26 11:01] You: ah OK 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:01] You: is there any objection to that?
[2008/04/26 11:01] MT Lundquist: no lets do your motion jamie
[2008/04/26 11:01] MT Lundquist: which gives a basis for bv
[2008/04/26 11:02] You: hm
[2008/04/26 11:02] You: lookinmg at chat 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:03] You: ok we have my motion …
[2008/04/26 11:03] You: BV wants to delay, MT wants to go 🙂 let’s vote, hm?
[2008/04/26 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] Dalton Dreamscape: Hi
[2008/04/26 11:04] You: members please state their vote 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] DivineLolita Demonia: hi
[2008/04/26 11:04] MT Lundquist: hi dalton
[2008/04/26 11:04] Justice Soothsayer: voting on whether to vote, or voting on whether to delay the vote, or voting on the substantive bill?
[2008/04/26 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Dalton & Divine 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] Dalton Dreamscape: How goes it?
[2008/04/26 11:04] You: hush all please 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] DivineLolita Demonia: just exploring andyou?
[2008/04/26 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn hopes that the RA members know on *what* exactly they’re going to vote now…
[2008/04/26 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: did you get a toga
[2008/04/26 11:05] DivineLolita Demonia: you look awesome
[2008/04/26 11:05] DivineLolita Demonia: giggles
[2008/04/26 11:05] DivineLolita Demonia: awww.. thanks you 😉
[2008/04/26 11:05] You: sigh
[2008/04/26 11:05] Dalton Dreamscape:
[2008/04/26 11:06] You: 🙂 RA members only, for the moment please
[2008/04/26 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: giggles
[2008/04/26 11:06] You: we have the following motion to vote on
[2008/04/26 11:07] You: my amendment to BV’s motion to adopt PMRW’s noncumulation bill
[2008/04/26 11:07] You: which – before i made my amendment
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: has been amended to change its effective date
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: so
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: my motion would amend it by removing the term limits paragraph
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: let us vote on that now. I vote aye.
[2008/04/26 11:09] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/04/26 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/04/26 11:09] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/26 11:09] You: ok
[2008/04/26 11:09] You: it’s amended
[2008/04/26 11:10] You: are we read to vote on the pmrw BILL as AMENDED?
[2008/04/26 11:10] You: *ready
[2008/04/26 11:10] You: (I note we’ve over time)
[2008/04/26 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: lets wait
[2008/04/26 11:10] Beathan Vale: might was well — actually
[2008/04/26 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanna see the o
[2008/04/26 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ok
[2008/04/26 11:11] MT Lundquist: is para 3 as written by pmr?
[2008/04/26 11:11] You: hm? Do I hear a cosensus to put the amended bill on hold for now?
[2008/04/26 11:11] You: No, MT, Beathan moved it to be effective after the by-election (see transcript above)
[2008/04/26 11:11] Beathan Vale: no — amended out my my amendment — JP just expanded the scope of the amendment
[2008/04/26 11:11] You: put on hold? or vote now?
[2008/04/26 11:11] Beathan Vale: let’s vote now
[2008/04/26 11:11] MT Lundquist: when did we vote on that?
[2008/04/26 11:12] Moon Adamant sighs
[2008/04/26 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* deeper
[2008/04/26 11:12] You: MT, Beathan’s originl motion on this topic offered the proposal WITH the change.
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: but we do need to change the last bit to clarify that the length of term does not effect the SC
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: otherwise it is a Constitu amendment — and we want to avoid that
[2008/04/26 11:12] You: I suggest that the number of questions from RA members suggests both a need for more work on this and – well – a need for closer attention.
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: OK — 1 week dealy
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: dealy
[2008/04/26 11:13] Beathan Vale: delay dammit
[2008/04/26 11:13] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/04/26 11:13] You: I propose we hold the bill and not act otday, as there seems lilttle certainty among the members about its exact contents
[2008/04/26 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: who cant read it
[2008/04/26 11:13] You: if there are no objections we’re don with that agenda item.
[2008/04/26 11:13] Moon Adamant: oh?
[2008/04/26 11:13] Beathan Vale: I move that TP decide on an outfit and stick to it
[2008/04/26 11:13] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/26 11:13] You: BV, spare me
[2008/04/26 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: omg that will never happen
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you like this
[2008/04/26 11:14] You: it’d have to be a toga, wouldn’t it
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: no — I like it
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: im thinking brunnet
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: brunette
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: so — I move a one day continuance of this bill
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i only wear togas at work
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: one week I mean
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: <-- hungry and irritable 😉 [2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: yes continuance.. no lets vote now [2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: lets just for sakes vote [2008/04/26 11:15] You: oy. A vote has been sought for the bill as amended. Those who want to wait can vote no. [2008/04/26 11:15] Beathan Vale: kk [2008/04/26 11:15] You: Members please state their vote. [2008/04/26 11:15] MT Lundquist: second prin [2008/04/26 11:15] MT Lundquist: aye [2008/04/26 11:15] Beathan Vale: abstain out of concern that the text has not been amended to resolve the problem requiring Constitutional amendment [2008/04/26 11:16] You: Prin? voting? [2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: thinking [2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: um [2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: aye [2008/04/26 11:16] You: KK. I will abstain. [2008/04/26 11:16] You: 2-0-2 [2008/04/26 11:16] MT Lundquist: does sonja get a 7 day? [2008/04/26 11:16] You: I view that as not passing. [2008/04/26 11:16] You: Not unless she asks for it, which she hasn't. [2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja will vote its her factions i think [2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she did ask for a seven day jamie [2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its implied when you say you arent gonna be here [2008/04/26 11:17] You: I expect this to come back - and I expect to vote for it - but we need the constitutional issue Beathan mentioned solved, in my take. [2008/04/26 11:17] Beathan Vale: I will repropose this measure after I have a chance to rework it a bit [2008/04/26 11:17] You: hm [2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: it is [2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: implicit who can eject that [2008/04/26 11:17] MT Lundquist: thats what i belive to [2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: if you can eject can you [2008/04/26 11:17] MT Lundquist: that if i'm not here i get a 7 day [2008/04/26 11:17] You: other views on that? I thought the member had to state they wanted to 7 day vote - it was by request, not implicit [2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: nvm [2008/04/26 11:18] Moon Adamant: that used to require a special request [2008/04/26 11:18] Beathan Vale: I don't think my rules changed that [2008/04/26 11:18] You: otherwise any member by not showing up woudl automatically delay everything [2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i just thought if you say you arent here you get a seven day [2008/04/26 11:18] Moon Adamant: from the rep in absence [2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its always been that way [2008/04/26 11:18] Moon Adamant: no, it hasn't [2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes it has [2008/04/26 11:18] Beathan Vale: I always requested it -- [2008/04/26 11:18] Beathan Vale: never assumed it [2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and i didnt and i got it [2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i did [2008/04/26 11:19] You: Tsk, kids, I rule as your presiding officer that there's no 7 day hold unless requested. 🙂 overrule me if you like [2008/04/26 11:19] Beathan Vale: but -- I think I specifically requested it for you at a session [2008/04/26 11:19] You: Honestly that's how I reda the *old* rule text [2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: kids is kinna demeaing jamie [2008/04/26 11:19] MT Lundquist: in which case i request it for sonja [2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: so if im sick and cant request cos i cant get online [2008/04/26 11:19] You: (by the way i love that outfit - but I wonder if Coco Chanel's lawyers do) [2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: or my internet fails [2008/04/26 11:19] You: Prin you raise an excellent point [2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i have everything chanel makes in sl [2008/04/26 11:19] You: I think our rules do NOT provide adeuqtely for that sort of thing [2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: its nto fair if you cant online that you cant fvote [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: well it should be that you get seven day period [2008/04/26 11:20] Beathan Vale: hmmm ... [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i thought that it was [2008/04/26 11:20] You: I agree 🙂 let's change those rules too [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: change it [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: NOW [2008/04/26 11:20] Moon Adamant: in the past, it never was a problem [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: well moon [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: it is today hunny [2008/04/26 11:20] Beathan Vale: I need to go soon [2008/04/26 11:20] You: I am not as big a fan of Bataan Death March live debate as some of y'all 🙂 sophisticated 21st century internet businesses permit remote async progress 🙂 [2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: huggs beathan ---- [2008/04/26 11:20] You: we are done with this item [2008/04/26 11:20] You: and over time [2008/04/26 11:21] You: and can adjourn if no one objects, even though there were other discussion items calendared [2008/04/26 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: well i am aplaed that the SP is stalling through LRA to not get teh commerce on the agenda [2008/04/26 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: mt worked hard [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: shhh [2008/04/26 11:22] Beathan Vale: let's adjoiurn --- otherwise I leave, we lose quorum, all hell breaks loose, and Pat has much rejoicing [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: im takin a mickey [2008/04/26 11:22] You: I don't think that's happening personally - I think we burned our two hours on other matters of greater interest to those present including your faction 🙂 [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: lol [2008/04/26 11:22] MT Lundquist: i'm happy to wait [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: we can adjoyr [2008/04/26 11:22] You: Coco [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: adjoyurn [2008/04/26 11:22] You: 🙂 [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: coco mademoiselle [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: smell it [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: omg [2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: stupdendous [2008/04/26 11:22] You: OK Mdmselle [2008/04/26 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: bromo is not here but i hear he just got another vote [2008/04/26 11:23] You: We are adjoruned, then, and thank you all [2008/04/26 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: jon dont close it yet dearie [2008/04/26 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok thanks [2008/04/26 11:23] Beathan Vale: bye all [2008/04/26 11:23] You: Well, FWIW I think polls remain open until noon [2008/04/26 11:23] You: i.e. 35 more mins [2008/04/26 11:23] Jon Seattle: Yes, polls remain open until Noon SLT [end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 03, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:

2. LRA succession after by-election (20 mins.: 09h15-09h35)
— MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
— Mt’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
— Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817

3. Plan for future meetings (5 mins.: 09h35-09h40)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

4. Review & scheduling of action on pending items (20 mins.: 09h40-10h00)
— MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
— Mt’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
— Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817

NEW ITEMS
5. Other?
6. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h00-10h15)
Adjournment: 10h15

Summary

3 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1845
===
[09:15] Called to order.
[09:17] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:17] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified. (Not raised.)
[09:23] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:25] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:26] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule. (See posts on this, default time agreed.)
[09:26] 1f – Consent agenda.
— Swear in new RA member FlyingRoc Chung and Gwyneth Llewelyn.
[09:32] 2 – LRA selection issues.
— Motion to send all draft bills for rule changes to Election Commission made [09:35] and seconded [09:36]. Motion approved 5-2-0. [09:44] Note, this includes this list, from 3 May posted agenda:
—- MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
—- MT’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
—- Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
—- Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817
— Motion to select LRA made [09:46] and withdrawn [09:47].
— Motion to confirm continuance of current LRA made [09:47] and seconded [09:49]. Motion approved 6-0-1 [09:51].
[09:55] 3 – Future RA meeting schedule.
— General consensus to retain default hour of Saturdays 09h00 11h00 SLT [09:59].
[10:01] 4 – Status review of bills in progress
— nothing Private Development Proposal – may be ready today
— noting Guild planning/new sim update
— [10:06] Guild planning update (report)
—- Master plan work versus SIm 4 work [10:11] —- Sim 4 progress [10:14] —— Motion to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova made [10:22] and seconded [10:22]. Motion withdrawn [10:23].
—— Agenda modification to extend time [10:28].
—— Motion to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova and include at least 42 private lots made [10:28] and seconded [10:28]. Motion withdrawn [10:30].
—— Motion to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova and include at least 42 private lots made [10:31] and seconded [10:31]. Motion approved 7-0-0 [10:34].
—— Motion to approve revised PDP bill made [10:36] and seconded [10:36]. Motion clarified as enacting the revised version here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
Motion called for a first vote [10:42], vote cancelled.
——– Amendment proposed to correct a typo made [10:58] and generally acceptable, added to main motion.
——– Main motion (to approve revised PDP as amended) adopted 4-2-0 [11:00] [11:02] Adjourned.

Transcript

====
Transcript of 3 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/05/03 9:07] You: good morning 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:07] Sonja Strom: good morning
[2008/05/03 9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I was at the wrong place lol
[2008/05/03 9:08] Moon Adamant: hi Sonja 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: heehee
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi Moon 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] You: Hullo MT
[2008/05/03 9:08] MT Lundquist: i was in the wrong plasce
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi, Sonja, Moon, Jamie!
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: coffee
[2008/05/03 9:08] You: A moment as I’m pinging our absent colleagues
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh coffee!
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why my SL client takes so long at making me sit (I know, you all see me correctly)
[2008/05/03 9:10] Flyingroc Chung: *yawn*
[2008/05/03 9:10] Flyingroc Chung: rezzing
[2008/05/03 9:10] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/05/03 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiya FR, good morning!
[2008/05/03 9:11] MT Lundquist: still naked i see
[2008/05/03 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/03 9:11] You: Good day all .. and welcome Gwyn and Roc
[2008/05/03 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees nothing and will probably relog
[2008/05/03 9:11] Moon Adamant: Hi Fr 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:11] Moon Adamant: and hello MT
[2008/05/03 9:11] MT Lundquist: hi moon
[2008/05/03 9:11] Flyingroc Chung: aha, suddenly the chairs rez
[2008/05/03 9:11] You: (Do we have a dress code? yikes)
[2008/05/03 9:11] You: Chairs good
[2008/05/03 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seems better now
[2008/05/03 9:12] MT Lundquist: what dress code
[2008/05/03 9:12] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/03 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope not my shoes dont match
[2008/05/03 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Prin
[2008/05/03 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi grins at gwyen
[2008/05/03 9:12] You: Well, I’ve talked to all except Beathan who is not yet online, so I think we can start?
[2008/05/03 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what do your Chinese characters mean, Jamie?
[2008/05/03 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan
[2008/05/03 9:13] You: Roughly, protector or sponsor
[2008/05/03 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha
[2008/05/03 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:13] Moon Adamant: hello Princess
[2008/05/03 9:13] You: .. of a Zen temple project of a friend 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:13] Jamie Palisades looks over his head.. oops 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/05/03 9:13] Flyingroc Chung: oh, I thought it meant “chinese car”
[2008/05/03 9:14] Sonja Strom: hehee
[2008/05/03 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: do you read Chinese, FR? 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:14] Flyingroc Chung: I have a vocabulary of about 100 words
[2008/05/03 9:14] You: well you’d know better – but – ittty bitty little rendering of pinyin, shrug
[2008/05/03 9:14] Flyingroc Chung: which is to say, no, I dont really read chinese
[2008/05/03 9:14] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I thought you might
[2008/05/03 9:14] Moon Adamant: well, 100 more words than me 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:14] You: and I think SL uses the ‘simplified mandarin’ subset of Unicode – which is pretty truncated
[2008/05/03 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha
[2008/05/03 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, beathan!
[2008/05/03 9:15] Moon Adamant: hello Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:15] Jamie Palisades shifts mental gears and smiles
[2008/05/03 9:15] MT Lundquist: hi beathan
—-
[2008/05/03 9:15] You: Let’s call to order 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:15] Beathan Vale: sorry I’m late — computer troubles
[2008/05/03 9:15] Flyingroc Chung: jaime, SL uses utf-8, which can render eitehr simplified or traditional mandarin
[2008/05/03 9:15] You: Agenda at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1835
[2008/05/03 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn was reading it
[2008/05/03 9:16] You: ahha yes, 8 bit … but ofcourse the client who names the group … grin, shrug
[2008/05/03 9:16] Sonja Strom too
[2008/05/03 9:16] You: Folks, our current rules give you the rght to amend the agenda, which we will get to in a moment
[2008/05/03 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/03 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b 😉
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: my only comment about that is that today we have the special issue of sorting out our own organiation – rather like a term start – which I figured ought to come first, after adminstrative trvivia 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: so
—-
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: 1a
[2008/05/03 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: Would everyone please assent to being recorded. I assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Beathan Vale: I assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That aye was I assent too of course.
[2008/05/03 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: 🙂
—-
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: 1b
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: Agenda
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: any modifications?
[2008/05/03 9:18] Flyingroc Chung assents
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/05/03 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: I note a few need ot leave early, thus the suggestion of a short meeting
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: OK, Gwyn?
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess first I think (I get chat out of order)
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: 🙂 whatever. Prin? Agenda change?
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that i do was for the assent?
[2008/05/03 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to talk abot the guided tour again i still dont have money , and we have to leave a little early sorry
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: NP i set this for 1:15 not 2:00 today …
[2008/05/03 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: and let’s add tour at the top of item 4, hm? should be short
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: short
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: Gwyn, you had one also?
[2008/05/03 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, my question was â€” is the Election Committee (by Beathan) still in effect?
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: BV?
[2008/05/03 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok and general reimbursements cos bells didnt get paid eitehr …… for anything
[2008/05/03 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/03 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that will probably render item 2. unnecessary)
[2008/05/03 9:20] Jamie Palisades nods – Beathan, I *think* you still have an election commission?
[2008/05/03 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: there’s stilthe matter of how we choose LRA after a by-elections.
[2008/05/03 9:20] You: yup, but we couls skip the rest, which was Gwyn’s suggestiu\on by e-mail
[2008/05/03 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, then, while Beathan thinks… here goes my proposal, with the LRA’s permission…
[2008/05/03 9:20] You: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) There is an Election Committee. Move 2. into it. Motion: elect an acting LRA while the COmmittee decides
[2008/05/03 9:21] Beathan Vale: JP — yes — but we need to have a post-eletion meeting on lessons learned
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so 1) stands
[2008/05/03 9:21] Beathan Vale: I’ll try to have one after thsi meeting and another later
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My proposal is that we elect just an acting LRA and wait for the conclusions of the Election Comittee,
[2008/05/03 9:21] MT Lundquist: we have the LRA bill on later
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and skip point 2
[2008/05/03 9:21] You: OK – sounds like a plan – for agenda purposes – let’s do that when we formally get to item 2
[2008/05/03 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: someone can move to refer the bills, then, if they wish, smile
[2008/05/03 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: anything else on agenda?
[2008/05/03 9:22] MT Lundquist: Are we having 2
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: yes – but will sort out WHAT we do with it when we get there 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:22] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/03 9:22] Jamie Palisades looks around – agenda otherwise OK?
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: right then
—-
[2008/05/03 9:23] You: 1c
[2008/05/03 9:23] You: Any nonRA members who wish to speak on a specific item?
[2008/05/03 9:23] You: Moon – anything from Guild?
[2008/05/03 9:23] Moon Adamant: Well, we are currently developing a lot of things
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: i am here to give info on any issue the RA may want to inquire about
[2008/05/03 9:24] You: For now, will you wish to makr a report today, or not?
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: well, jamie, since you want a short meeting
[2008/05/03 9:24] You: K – we’ll put you into the Priv Dev slot then, with my colleagues’ permission
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: and we do have TONS of things going on
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: it’s more efficient if you just ask when needed
[2008/05/03 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to hear something from the Guild on item 4 b) [private development proposal] [2008/05/03 9:24] You: 🙂 up to the group, Moon, dear, but that sounds fine to me
[2008/05/03 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie on priv Dev slot 😉
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: yes, – a short refesher at least on where we are, and what’s next, hmn?
[2008/05/03 9:25] Moon Adamant: perfect for me *bows at the RA assembled*
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: I’d like us at least today to have a common understandig on the status of each bill in progress 🙂
—-
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: 1d
[2008/05/03 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi smiles at moon
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting — but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it —-
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: and after today’s minutes, address it to your new LRA 🙂
—-
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: 1e
[2008/05/03 9:26] Ilse Mannonen’s Copyable Female ZHAO v2: Couldn’t find animation StanSexyF4
[2008/05/03 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: future meetings
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: we will talk about that under item 3
—-
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: 1f
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: consent agenda – I know of nothing
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: anyone?
[2008/05/03 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are the “ministerial items”? 😉
[2008/05/03 9:27] You: ha ha – well, leaving wordplay aside, anything we all think can be voted out *without* debate
[2008/05/03 9:27] Sonja Strom: Should we swear in the new RA members?
[2008/05/03 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: we might swear
[2008/05/03 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: them in yes
[2008/05/03 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Sonja.
[2008/05/03 9:27] Beathan Vale: items that do not need debate — such as approval of budgets and such — if debate is needed, they are placed on the agenda, otherwise it is for rapid approval
[2008/05/03 9:27] You: In a mood to swear? 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: never
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: Suffice to say we have no consent items proposed for today
[2008/05/03 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH. Well. We have an approved budget, just mmh a certain lack of reluctance in enforcing it
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: May I have everyone’s assent to swearing in our two new membees now? (Silence is assent)
[2008/05/03 9:28] Beathan Vale: OK — God Damn the new RA members — 😉
[2008/05/03 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t know if she should assent
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: Oh, did we amend the oath, too?
[2008/05/03 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan â€” good swering at! 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: heh
[2008/05/03 9:28] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: BV, still have the Oath card?
[2008/05/03 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: assent
[2008/05/03 9:29] Sonja Strom gave you CDS RA Office Affirmation.
[2008/05/03 9:29] Beathan Vale: so many many notes
[2008/05/03 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn accepted your inventory offer.
[2008/05/03 9:29] You: Gwyn, I’ve handed you a familiar notecard 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Jamie! you’re fast 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: well congratulations on your one seat moon and gwye
[2008/05/03 9:29] You: Gwyn please oath away 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:30] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/05/03 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, , having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, so help me God.
[2008/05/03 9:30] You: FR? Got it?
[2008/05/03 9:30] Flyingroc Chung: I Flyingroc Chung, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2008/05/03 9:31] Flyingroc Chung: sry, not used to cut n paste on a vista machine
[2008/05/03 9:31] MT Lundquist: congratulations both of you
[2008/05/03 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/03 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2008/05/03 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: congratulations FR for coming in first in the election! way to go …
[2008/05/03 9:31] Sonja Strom: me claps
[2008/05/03 9:31] You: Excuse me 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:31] Moon Adamant: Congrats FR and Gwyn 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:31] Beathan Vale: never before has a monkey come so far
[2008/05/03 9:31] You: Congratulations to both of you – and let’s get to work
[2008/05/03 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha! not true actually 😉
[2008/05/03 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: is it out of order if i pull his tail
[2008/05/03 9:31] You: next item
[2008/05/03 9:32] Flyingroc Chung declined your inventory offer.
[2008/05/03 9:32] You: yes
[2008/05/03 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apes have no tails!
—-
[2008/05/03 9:32] You: 2
[2008/05/03 9:32] Beathan Vale: or — an ape and a redhead — isn’t there a movie about that?
[2008/05/03 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/05/03 9:32] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/03 9:32] Sonja Strom: Hi DivineLolita
[2008/05/03 9:32] Sonja Strom: welcome
[2008/05/03 9:32] You: I suggest that someone may wish to move to send the LRA *bills* to the Election Commission? Then we can debate that, leaving us with the one-time issue of today’s designation?
[2008/05/03 9:33] DivineLolita Demonia: Heys sorry i dont want to disturb
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: Hi Loli
[2008/05/03 9:33] Moon Adamant: hello 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: No prob, you’re welcome, as long as you can handle us being in a formal meeting 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:33] Beathan Vale: Send me the LRA bills? oh man … no!!!
[2008/05/03 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i do have a report about one of our new members
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: Prin? we’re on item 2
[2008/05/03 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: no im not sure we should do that if he doesnt want it
[2008/05/03 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I stand by my suggestion. I believe it’s pointless to do “partial revamping” on the election rules, if there is a committee working on it, and we shouldn’t change critical things “at whim” without seeing the overall picture. So I move that we send all proposed bills to the Election Comission, and just elect an “interim LRA” or “acting LRA” until the Committee finishes their proposal
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: Colleagues, what do you wish to do with the LRA bills?
[2008/05/03 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont tell you what fr did last night then
[2008/05/03 9:33] MT Lundquist: maybe we should discuss and vote here
[2008/05/03 9:34] Beathan Vale: I can handle them in the election meeting
[2008/05/03 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we wanna vote ..
[2008/05/03 9:34] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/03 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: discuss and vote
[2008/05/03 9:34] Beathan Vale: if that is what the RA wants
[2008/05/03 9:34] MT Lundquist: but we have pictures from last night
[2008/05/03 9:34] You: OK, well, in lieu of a motion, let me ask: MT, which form of your bill is the current one we should be working from?
[2008/05/03 9:34] You: I had this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
[2008/05/03 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose a motion: Pushing the discussion of all the LRA election bills for discussion by the Election Committe. Vote on an acting LRA until taht job is finished.
[2008/05/03 9:35] MT Lundquist: the current bill is the LRA and chancellor election
[2008/05/03 9:35] MT Lundquist: the lra elected by the RA
[2008/05/03 9:35] MT Lundquist: and direct election of chancellor
[2008/05/03 9:35] You: OK, Gwyn’s made a motion – send the bills to Election Commission (i.e., do not vote on them here today).
[2008/05/03 9:35] You: Second?
[2008/05/03 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: I second
[2008/05/03 9:36] Jamie Palisades look around
[2008/05/03 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you FR 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:36] You: ok
[2008/05/03 9:36] You: debate?
[2008/05/03 9:36] MT Lundquist: i believe the proposal is well formed already
[2008/05/03 9:36] Beathan Vale: I think this is OK — but I have to move quickly — because the bill would change the way the next election is conducted
[2008/05/03 9:36] You: Gwyn’s typing, I assume she’ll speak in favor first
[2008/05/03 9:36] MT Lundquist: discussion with all the major parties/factions
[2008/05/03 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My opinion remains: there is quite a lot to be changed in the whole election procedures. It’s not just the LRA and Chancellor
[2008/05/03 9:36] MT Lundquist: led to its present form
[2008/05/03 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: why would we revote on LRA
[2008/05/03 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we just did that
[2008/05/03 9:37] MT Lundquist: i believe it has a strong concensus therefore
[2008/05/03 9:37] MT Lundquist: and doesnt need further attention
[2008/05/03 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally dislike doing things bit by bit, specially if we *already* have a Committee working on things.
[2008/05/03 9:37] You: hmm – well I hear some folks who want to act today and thus are speaking against the motion
[2008/05/03 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We invested in them the power to discuss *everything*
[2008/05/03 9:37] MT Lundquist: and we need to establish who is lra now
[2008/05/03 9:37] You: let me ask – is there a queue of people who want to speak further on this?
[2008/05/03 9:37] Beathan Vale: I do
[2008/05/03 9:38] You: BV, who else?
[2008/05/03 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, MT, but that’s easy â€” we just get a vote on an “acting LRA”. There is a lot of precedent on that, namely on the 2nd term of 2005
[2008/05/03 9:38] MT Lundquist: but ven so gwyn i believe that we should proceed
[2008/05/03 9:38] Beathan Vale: So far — the election committee has primary focussed on the mechanics of the process and on the itegrity of the process — I have not considered our mandate to include questions of what offices to election and certainly not internal RA governance
[2008/05/03 9:38] You: – we are a little free-form here. Can I suggest that everyone who has more to say on the motion take up to 60 secs each?
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: However, I also thank that this bill could usepublic inworld debate
[2008/05/03 9:39] You: In lieu of a need to be ritualistic, what say we start with BV, who was kind enough to ask to speak – then go around the room – once?
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: so far — it has been well debated on the forums and in the RA — but it might bear one inworld meeting
[2008/05/03 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, move it to the Election Committee â€” where the public can discuss freely 😉
[2008/05/03 9:39] MT Lundquist: i would have thought that its had a lot of debate already
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: I expect I will send it back for vote next week — probably with little to no changes
[2008/05/03 9:39] MT Lundquist: its been out there in various forms for weeks
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/03 9:40] Beathan Vale: I agree MT
[2008/05/03 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, MT, if thing were consensual â€” we wouldn’t have *four* proposals on the agenda â€” but just one.
[2008/05/03 9:40] Jamie Palisades sighs, smiles, and just decides to ask you rowdy lot to finish in 3 minutes and then will call for a vote
[2008/05/03 9:40] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/03 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The purpose of things like the Election Committee is exactly to get input from different things â€” like, well, four different proposals â€” and get a consensual one
[2008/05/03 9:41] Flyingroc Chung: lets just hope it doesnt end up like the judiciary committee
[2008/05/03 9:41] Jamie Palisades grins at the thought
[2008/05/03 9:41] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/05/03 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR â€” well, the best way to deal with that is to make sure we have consensual proposals 😉
[2008/05/03 9:42] You: .. ahem .. Ok, all, any new points or last words? Or can we vote on Gwyn’s motion to send it to committee?
[2008/05/03 9:42] MT Lundquist: perhaps we should vote on the bill, if it passes we have agreement, if not then we bring it to Beathans committee
[2008/05/03 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn has no new points
[2008/05/03 9:42] You: 🙂 motion on the floor is to send it, so you can vote against that, I guess, MT
[2008/05/03 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But give me 10 minutes and I’ll figure out a dozen 😉 hehe
[2008/05/03 9:42] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/05/03 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[2008/05/03 9:43] You: ha ha tsk. Members please state your vote – on the motion to send to Committee.
[2008/05/03 9:43] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye, let’s have the Committee discuss it.
[2008/05/03 9:43] You: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/05/03 9:43] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: OK – passes 5-2-0.
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: and to be clear
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: I believe that covers all bills on LRA succession.
[2008/05/03 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/03 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks so as well.
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: and the commission meets immediately after this meeting, yes?
[2008/05/03 9:44] Beathan Vale: I will prep notecards on this issue and try to have a special meeting or meetings o fthe committee in the next week
[2008/05/03 9:44] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/03 9:44] MT Lundquist: thats a problem
[2008/05/03 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn thanks Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:44] Beathan Vale: we can start the discussion then
[2008/05/03 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: we request a time change
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: AH OK – no commission meeting today then
[2008/05/03 9:45] MT Lundquist: as we cant attend after this meeting
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: BV is chair and will schedule, smile
[2008/05/03 9:45] Beathan Vale: but I still want to do a after the fact review of the election
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: noted 😉
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: Ladies and gentlemen we’re still on item 2
[2008/05/03 9:45] Moon Adamant whispers “brb”
[2008/05/03 9:46] Sonja Strom: Jamie, is your tea getting cold?
[2008/05/03 9:46] You: We need an LRA – and have just send all our legislative solutions to committee 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion 2: Elect an “acting LRA” until the Elect. Committee proposes a change on the election procedures. Two steps: call for candidates among our august members of this assembly. Step two: vote on the candidates.
[2008/05/03 9:46] You: It’s magic tea, Sonja
[2008/05/03 9:46] Sonja Strom: ok 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we have an LRA we already voted for him
[2008/05/03 9:46] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/05/03 9:47] You: OK we have a motion – which amouts to, elect one for now, to last until the next general election.
[2008/05/03 9:47] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/03 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh â€” Princess, I actually agree with you!
[2008/05/03 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i would like to move that jamie stay LRA if he will
[2008/05/03 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll withdraw the motion if the RA members wish simply to endow the current LRA as acting LRA until the remainder of the term 😉
[2008/05/03 9:47] You: to be honest, and fair to Prin, her point that the current appontment (me) may “ride through” without action is entirely plausible … but …
[2008/05/03 9:48] You: … our rules and law on this are a mess 🙂 … as I noted on he forums .. so who knows … and …
[2008/05/03 9:48] You: I only wish to continue to serve if it’s your will. So – we have a motion – was it seconded?
[2008/05/03 9:48] Beathan Vale: no — it makes sense to reconfirm Jamie
[2008/05/03 9:48] Sonja Strom: I think there is a motion on the floor, and we should vote on it.
[2008/05/03 9:48] Beathan Vale: the theory is that the LRA should be by consent of the RA — and the RA is now changed so new indication of consent would be helpful
[2008/05/03 9:48] MT Lundquist: well i believe it depends on the results of the beathans committee
[2008/05/03 9:48] MT Lundquist: so it should stand until then
[2008/05/03 9:48] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/05/03 9:48] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/03 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes Jamie it was)
[2008/05/03 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest that we change the order
[2008/05/03 9:49] You: MT, Beathan’s committee will not create a solution that tells us who the LRA will be *today* 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:49] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/05/03 9:49] Jamie Palisades listenms to Gwyn – this is about how to proceed on the motion?
[2008/05/03 9:49] Beathan Vale: my committee probably won’t recommend anything for this term
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I will second Prin’s/Beathans motion to reconfirm the current LRA as acting LRA until the end of term
[2008/05/03 9:49] MT Lundquist: but it may well tell us how to find an lra before the nend of the term
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have that voted first
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if it doesn’t pass,
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can go to my motion next.
[2008/05/03 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s just a change of order of the motions, if you’re agreeable, Mr LRA)
[2008/05/03 9:50] You: ok, I read that as Gwyn withdrawing her motion, and consensus to take Prin’s motion as the new motion for action. Does that work for everyone?
[2008/05/03 9:50] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/03 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that, yes
[2008/05/03 9:50] Flyingroc Chung: works for me
[2008/05/03 9:50] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/05/03 9:50] You: OK, then, this is a vote to confirm my contuinance for the remainder of this term. Discussion?
[2008/05/03 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: imma vote for jamie to be LRA then i have to reboot.. ok … aye
[2008/05/03 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/05/03 9:50] You: got it
[2008/05/03 9:50] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Beathan Vale: move the q
[2008/05/03 9:51] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Jamie Palisades looks for more typey gstures
[2008/05/03 9:51] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] You: members please state their vote. We note Prin voted aye.
[2008/05/03 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye as well.
[2008/05/03 9:51] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: hm, I think I voted twice
[2008/05/03 9:51] You: well, thank you, all. I will abstain. It’s a politesse thing.
[2008/05/03 9:51] Sonja Strom: hehee
[2008/05/03 9:52] You: The false modesty of politicans and all that …
[2008/05/03 9:52] Moon Adamant: my congrats to the LRA 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: acting LRA, congratulations 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:52] You: so – hm – that moots Gwyn’s motion in abeyance, so we can consider it gone
[2008/05/03 9:52] Sonja Strom: Thanks Jamie 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: meet the new LRA, same as….
[2008/05/03 9:52] MT Lundquist: congratulations
[2008/05/03 9:52] Beathan Vale: Jamie — feel any different?
[2008/05/03 9:53] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/03 9:53] You: 🙂 I was referring to myself as interim before, and will not do so through the end of this term 🙂 Gwyn if you think the appellation ‘acting’ means anything, you’re welcome to explain, otherwise I don’t plan to use it.
[2008/05/03 9:53] Sonja Strom: more assured that you have the confidence of the RA?
[2008/05/03 9:53] You: Yes – actually – I thikn it’s healthy, to answer Sonja
[2008/05/03 9:53] MT Lundquist: and i’m happy that we selected the LRA
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: but we will leave questions of the wisdom of electing LRAs to … our august special commission 😀
[2008/05/03 9:54] Sonja Strom: I don’t think Jamie should always have to say he is “Acting” LRA.
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: Not planning to, Sonja, through Mdmselle Llewelyn is welcome to make a case 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: moving on, hm?
[2008/05/03 9:54] Sonja Strom: He is the LRA 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, I second that and vote “aye”!
[2008/05/03 9:54] MT Lundquist: i second sonja
[2008/05/03 9:54] Sonja Strom: So Jamie, you are the LRA.
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: cheers all – let’s move on
—-
[2008/05/03 9:55] You: 3
[2008/05/03 9:55] You: future meetings 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: there goes beathan
[2008/05/03 9:55] You: Thank you for tolerating this out-of-order item
[2008/05/03 9:55] Sonja Strom: he seems sleepy today
[2008/05/03 9:56] You: but we need a happily consensual meeting date – one thatwe re-use would be nice – there are people other than the 7 of us would would be better cinveniences by regular time slots.
[2008/05/03 9:56] Sonja Strom: Is anyone unhappy with meeting at this time each week?
[2008/05/03 9:56] You: any thoughts on regular meeting times? Lately we have used 12 SLT Sunday and today’s slot 9 am SLT Saturday …
[2008/05/03 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with either
[2008/05/03 9:56] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/05/03 9:57] Flyingroc Chung: if we are to meet wekends, I can meet at 9am saturday, 9am sunday
[2008/05/03 9:57] Flyingroc Chung: I slightly prefer sunday, actually
[2008/05/03 9:57] You: We have a couple of North American churchgoers, so can I sugges we standardize on this time slot?
[2008/05/03 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturdays I’m sadly away from noon-6 PM SLT â€” no problems on Sunday
[2008/05/03 9:57] MT Lundquist: 12 sunday is difficult for me
[2008/05/03 9:57] MT Lundquist: i go to bed then
[2008/05/03 9:57] MT Lundquist: to fit into prins time
[2008/05/03 9:58] MT Lundquist: i wake at 8pm slt
[2008/05/03 9:58] You: FR, I heard you, but I detect a slight leaning towards 9 am Saturdays .. and heartfelt objections? Noting that we tend often to take two hours, and MT and Gwyn are on EU time
[2008/05/03 9:58] MT Lundquist: so its my night
[2008/05/03 9:59] MT Lundquist: saturdays ok
[2008/05/03 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturdays 9 AM is perfect for 2-hour-meeting for me
[2008/05/03 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: it’s a bit early for me… but sure
[2008/05/03 9:59] Jamie Palisades look for objections, hears none
[2008/05/03 9:59] You: thanks
[2008/05/03 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Prin!
[2008/05/03 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: I dont need to shower an get dressed for SL meetings 😉
[2008/05/03 9:59] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/05/03 9:59] You: OK we will consider that an amendment to BV’s rules document and make it the default,
[2008/05/03 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Hai
[2008/05/03 10:00] Beathan Vale: FR — don’t you work at Microsoft — do you really have to shower and get dressed for ANY meetings?
[2008/05/03 10:00] You: .. one of the many advantages of virtual monkeyhood
[2008/05/03 10:00] Sonja Strom: Hello Arthulius, welcome.
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Thanks
[2008/05/03 10:00] Moon Adamant: hello Arthulius
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Hi
[2008/05/03 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 😀
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Hallo
[2008/05/03 10:01] Sonja Strom: halloo 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:01] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: Welcome, Arthul, this is a formal meeting, you’re welcome to observe, but if you plan to speak here, please let us know and assent to being recorded in our transcript 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh next item, Mr LRA?…
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: indeed
—-
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: 4
[2008/05/03 10:01] Arthulius Maximus: Ok, I’ll just observe then, I have no idea what’s going on :p
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: it was my suggestion that we briefly look at our stable of bills in process and see if we are doing what’s needed to move forward
[2008/05/03 10:02] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/03 10:02] Sonja Strom: Sometimes I wonder if we do 😉
[2008/05/03 10:02] You: no prob Arthul 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: none of us do.. and when we think we do we are wrong
[2008/05/03 10:02] Arthulius Maximus: XD
[2008/05/03 10:02] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[2008/05/03 10:02] You: Let me ask: does anyone propose to bring any of them to a vote *today*?
[2008/05/03 10:02] You: if so we ought to deal with that first, hm?
[2008/05/03 10:02] Beathan Vale: the priv dev proposal is ready, I think
[2008/05/03 10:03] You: hmm -so at least let’s talk about it first, and get Moon’s Guild update. Others planning action *today*?
[2008/05/03 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my case, I’d just bring a “No” vote on the Noncommulation of mandates act 😀 but I’ll reserve my arguments if that is going to be discussed
[2008/05/03 10:03] Moon Adamant: hmmm… tell me when i must speak?
[2008/05/03 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, I rather preferred that we went ahead and listen to Moon 😀
[2008/05/03 10:04] You: OK 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:04] Jamie Palisades hears no objections
[2008/05/03 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: if it passes you wont run next term
[2008/05/03 10:04] You: let’s do Priv Dev first – I suggest we first ask Moon for a brief update on the Guild’s planning activity, and whatever charter changes they may bring (but have not yet), then ask BV to carry his bill forward
[2008/05/03 10:05] You: to>do
[2008/05/03 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that decision by the LRA
[2008/05/03 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: enthusiastically, if I may add 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:05] You: Private Development, smile, ahem
[2008/05/03 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi gags just a little
[2008/05/03 10:05] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/03 10:06] You: Moon? update, say 5 mins or less, followed by polite questions after you’re done?
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: Guild is atm voting a new Faculty
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: which will happen on the 8th May
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: at same time, we are preparing a new charter
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: also to be discussed and voted by Faculty
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: this charter addresses the clearer separation of Faculty and board
[2008/05/03 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/05/03 10:07] Moon Adamant: plus some other internal aspect of guild procedures
[2008/05/03 10:07] Moon Adamant: this charter will later then be put to discussion at Board level
[2008/05/03 10:07] Moon Adamant: and when approved, we will ask this RA to vote the Charter
[2008/05/03 10:08] Moon Adamant: as happened with the charter currently standing
[2008/05/03 10:08] Moon Adamant: as for the contents of the charter that directly matter to the private dev bill
[2008/05/03 10:08] Moon Adamant: they deal essentially with the separation of board and faculty
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: board being a “contractor”
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: and faculty being a consultive organ
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: Faculty will organize itself in departments
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: one of them being the Buyilding Approval Committee
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: which will aid the Chancellor, as in accordance to Beathan’s proposal
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: the charter also previews that these deps will have the power to define internal procedures
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: so to resume
[2008/05/03 10:10] No room to sit here, try another spot.
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: we think that in less of a month, depending on debate time
[2008/05/03 10:11] Moon Adamant: the Guild will be ready for the Private Dev Bill
[2008/05/03 10:11] Moon Adamant: done…. questions?
[2008/05/03 10:11] You: Yes thanks
[2008/05/03 10:11] You: OK, questions for Moon. And permit me to ask two – and I apologize if the answers are on the forum and I missed them. First, do you think all the procedural Guild stuff is crowding out or ‘gating’ Sim 4 planning, and future strategic map planning, on your agenda? Or are the latter two projects also progressing in parallel? … And second, since the Guild accepted the RA’s instructions on Sim4, and we have received *no* questions for clarification, may I assum eyou are ready and Sudane should order the sim immediately? Or what else is an obstacle to that step?
[2008/05/03 10:11] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/05/03 10:12] You: Q1 is about process versus substantive work
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: well, let me explain how Board works
[2008/05/03 10:12] You: *process
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: we constitue projects that are assigned to workgroups
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: atm, in parallel, there are 2 workgroups
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: one for masterplan
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: onne for 4th sim
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: they’re both working
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: the masterplan wg has a very large scope
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: you have received my mail about conducting surveys to the community, i hope?
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: so we can consider it as a standing WG
[2008/05/03 10:13] Sonja Strom: I received one from Symo.
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: also because we are receiving a lot of input from citizens
[2008/05/03 10:14] You: OK, so I take the answer to Q1 to be that they *are* all proceeding in parallel and are *not* gated by the charter changes. Moon, is that correct? Let’s talk about surveys in a sec
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: yes – the work is carrying on
[2008/05/03 10:14] You: excellent thx – and let’s get to those surveys as point 3
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: the charter is an internal discussion that will organize our work futher, but it is not stopping us
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: just let me add
[2008/05/03 10:14] You: on the second question I raised, Moon? Sim 4 order?
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: that atm for sim 4
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: my last info is that we have 3 people preparing sim plans
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: (from earlier on this week)
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: we prefer to present those plans, iterate so that we can have a consensus plan
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: and then hand it to financials
[2008/05/03 10:16] You: ? is that sort of like the Arria and Rose competing plans, then? They all are working within the RA parameters? They all are Guild members? I’m confused, sorry
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: so that financials don’t have useless work
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: all citizens are guild members
[2008/05/03 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: no they will ask for changes to our request from the meetings i attended
[2008/05/03 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: sir jamie
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: and at the forums
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: you will find the transcript of our last meeting
[2008/05/03 10:16] You: Let’s let Moon finish her answer, then Prin has a Q
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: in which we discussed the RA parameters
[2008/05/03 10:17] Moon Adamant: as for your first question, it’s not like the Nea Hora vs Alp Meadows
[2008/05/03 10:17] Moon Adamant: but more like the process that led Jon and Dnate’Â«s plans to be merged into final Alp Mead
[2008/05/03 10:18] Moon Adamant: i hope this has answered your questions?
[2008/05/03 10:18] You: Moon, I may not be stating it well, but my concern is that the actual sim order could be placed – there being a troubled queue at Linden Labs – and I think you are telling me that more *financial* work is needed, as well as more design work, before the Guild would recommend we proceed to place the order. Is that right?
[2008/05/03 10:19] Moon Adamant: i believe you want a serious design and financials, right?
[2008/05/03 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi looks down rolls her eyes
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: they are changing what we gave them.. so they have to redo financials
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: fewer lots
[2008/05/03 10:20] Moon Adamant: As to Princess’ comments
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: different prim amounts etc.
[2008/05/03 10:20] Moon Adamant: let me explain
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: please do hun
[2008/05/03 10:20] Moon Adamant: we are considering that due to difference in densities
[2008/05/03 10:20] Beathan Vale: my understandibng is that there will be a recommendation to slightly reduce the number of lots — from 50 to 42 or 45 or so — not a huge change
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: a denser sim would perhaps be placed better in CN-West
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: NEXT to the city
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: the assumptions made by guild members in teh transcripts are many of them wrong though moon
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and we made an order to you
[2008/05/03 10:21] Beathan Vale: yes — and relocate the CN west — I think that is something the RA should do
[2008/05/03 10:21] You: hang on all ) Moon, you done?
[2008/05/03 10:21] Beathan Vale: the 4th sim would be better placed CN West
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: yes they are completely out of order
[2008/05/03 10:21] You: tsk
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: Princess, it is not my function to comment on the accuracy of Guild members’ assumptions
[2008/05/03 10:21] You: Is Moon finished?
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: its mine
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: kindly let me continue
[2008/05/03 10:22] Beathan Vale: I move to authorize the Guild to build the 4th sim in CN West
[2008/05/03 10:22] Moon Adamant: no
[2008/05/03 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/03 10:22] Moon Adamant: at the same time
[2008/05/03 10:22] You: I ask that Moon be given 60 more seconds to conclude he remarks first.
[2008/05/03 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: two sims yay@!
[2008/05/03 10:22] Moon Adamant: ok, i’ll wait for the motion, then continue?
[2008/05/03 10:22] MT Lundquist: third
[2008/05/03 10:22] You: sigh
[2008/05/03 10:23] You: I am emotionally entirely on the side of that mnotion, I’m afraid
[2008/05/03 10:23] You: BUT Can we permit Moon to finish for SIXTY seconds, please.B
[2008/05/03 10:23] Moon Adamant: shal i continue, or shall i wait for your motion?
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: there is good reason to move the sim to CN west — and it effects Guild design — I meant to raise this earlier but I forgot
[2008/05/03 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: lets add in the lot number change too ………
[2008/05/03 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ammend the movement to change all they want changed .. location and lot numbers
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: OK — no fewer than 42 lots and moved to CN West
[2008/05/03 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: second beathan
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: OK — motion withindrwan
[2008/05/03 10:23] Moon Adamant: we are atm studying
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: for now
[2008/05/03 10:24] You: 🙂 ladies and gentlemen.
[2008/05/03 10:24] You: I share your impatience but not your approach to politeness …
[2008/05/03 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi winks at bv
[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: if a slight reduction in the number of plots – around 10% less
[2008/05/03 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: I’m not sure I want the RA to micromanage how many lots are to be built.
[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: can allow us to give a prim multiplicator to parcels
[2008/05/03 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure I don’t want that either, FR 😉

[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: this would make parcels more appealing
[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: it’s not DOUBLE parcels
[2008/05/03 10:25] Moon Adamant: but we can give a non-integer multiplicator
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: Moon I thikn we should regar the RAmembes ans wishing to act wihout further report, if I can dvine thir intent fom their omments correctl. Myapologies.
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: Honestly, friends, I feel a little like King Cole, here, in the RA, calling for our pipe & bowl, and with a bunch of prospective citizens who want to move in — and a sort of uncertain, receding timeline for actually moving, to be honest. Genuine gratitude for the Guild’s work, and no question that there is good will all around, but also, well, if we move *independently* of the Guild, do we need the PDP bill to be passed?
[2008/05/03 10:25] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: PDP experts?
[2008/05/03 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who’s “we” in that context, Jamie? The CDS? The RA? 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: Sim plans do not fall from the sky, smile
[2008/05/03 10:25] Flyingroc Chung: Should we wait for the new charter?
[2008/05/03 10:26] You: all of the above, flower girl
[2008/05/03 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok :)))
[2008/05/03 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: before we take up the sim devt bill
[2008/05/03 10:26] Moon Adamant: Jamie, you are totally right, sim plans do not fall out from the sky 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:26] You: to be clear on procedure: we have a motion and second 🙂 we are debating it
[2008/05/03 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: well …lets do the pdp and let them do what they want
[2008/05/03 10:26] Beathan Vale: FR — no -0- the charter depends on passage of the bill —
[2008/05/03 10:26] Beathan Vale: the Guild needs to respond to the bill or respond to its nonpassage
[2008/05/03 10:26] MT Lundquist: second pdp
[2008/05/03 10:26] Moon Adamant: well, Beathan
[2008/05/03 10:27] Moon Adamant: actually, we changed the charter to meet the new challenge of PDP
[2008/05/03 10:27] You: is the PDP bill ready to be enacted in the view of its PROPOSER?
[2008/05/03 10:27] You: 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:27] Moon Adamant: but it also contemplates internal Guild points
[2008/05/03 10:27] Beathan Vale: ok
[2008/05/03 10:27] Moon Adamant: so it was a lucky moment to solve two issues in one go 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:28] You: …… your slightly perplxed LRA notes we are over time as scheduled. I will assume an extension until 10h45 is acceptable to all, and that we remain on th PDP question, if no objection is voiced.
[2008/05/03 10:28] You: sigh
[2008/05/03 10:28] Beathan Vale: Ok — I renew my motion authorising guild to build 4th sim CN west with no fewer than 42 lots for private ownership
[2008/05/03 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections to extension.
[2008/05/03 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/03 10:29] You: Do I undestand corectly that BV ha moved, an someone has seconed, that we adopt the PDP bill now?
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to vote on beathans pdp bill now
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yep
[2008/05/03 10:29] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: No
[2008/05/03 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait…
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: I withdraw motion and move PDP bill
[2008/05/03 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: hm, I dont think beathans motion is for adoption of the pdp bill…
[2008/05/03 10:29] You: Beathan – please clarify
[2008/05/03 10:29] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/05/03 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he wanted to add the guild requests
[2008/05/03 10:29] Flyingroc Chung sctaches head
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: I’ll get tot he guild afterward
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: read back jamie
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: OK –stop
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: I withdraw all motions
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: let me clarify
[2008/05/03 10:30] You: 🙂 thx
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: the Guild is making design decisions as to the previously authorized 4th sim
[2008/05/03 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: I understand that it has discovered that a dense sim would be better build CN West — and that double prims require a slight reduction in private lots from 50 to around 42
[2008/05/03 10:31] Jamie Palisades listens to BV until he indicates he’s done – because he was not raised by wolves …
[2008/05/03 10:31] Beathan Vale: So — I move that we authorize the Guild to design the 4th sim with these changes
[2008/05/03 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/03 10:31] You: That’s a motion. Is there a scond?
[2008/05/03 10:31] You: OK
[2008/05/03 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is motion #1 from you, Beathan. Right?
[2008/05/03 10:31] Moon Adamant: well, actually atm a non-integer multiplier with a 10% reduction in prim lots
[2008/05/03 10:31] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/03 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. That motion is on the floor?
[2008/05/03 10:31] Moon Adamant: but we can study the double prim question
[2008/05/03 10:32] Beathan Vale: OK — Moon — not double prim lots — but “more marketable and buildable lots”
[2008/05/03 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: study? .lol
[2008/05/03 10:32] You: Moon can you – is ONE word – confirm whether Bethan’s motion correctly captured that part of the Guild’s feedback?
[2008/05/03 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i move no other changes to the ra bill after this eitehr
[2008/05/03 10:32] You: I am asking a yes or no question
[2008/05/03 10:32] Moon Adamant: yes in general principles
[2008/05/03 10:32] Moon Adamant: details to be verified 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ;aldkjf;lskdfl;a
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: thanks – good enough for me 🙂 any more comments, or are you ready to vote?
[2008/05/03 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: I wil make a suggestion about how to proceed AFTER we vote on this 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine to vote, and votes “aye”
[2008/05/03 10:33] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: members please state your vote to BV’s amendment on the sim details. I vote aye.
[2008/05/03 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/03 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: ha ha you’re all ahead of me
[2008/05/03 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eagerness, Mr LRA, just eagerness 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: Passes 7-0-0
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: Indeed
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: now
[2008/05/03 10:34] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guild, GO WORK! 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[2008/05/03 10:34] Moon Adamant: i will inform the Guild of new changes in specs
[2008/05/03 10:34] Moon Adamant: eheheh, we do little else 😛
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: When we pass the PDP bill, anyone who thinks we wan to rush forward further will have their vehicle for doing so …
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀

[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: nice
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: choices are a good thing
[2008/05/03 10:35] Beathan Vale: does the PDP bill need further debate — or it is ready for vote?
[2008/05/03 10:35] You: .. so may I suggest that be our first agenda item for next week?
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no i think we should vote now
[2008/05/03 10:35] MT Lundquist: second voting
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: why are we waiting its been around for ages
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to vote *now* too!
[2008/05/03 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: since the exodus and seat loss
[2008/05/03 10:36] Beathan Vale: OK — I move passage of the PDP bill
[2008/05/03 10:36] You: BV I have a feeling it has not been sanded down, since we last looked at it – but you tell me
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Beathan
[2008/05/03 10:36] Beathan Vale: no — it has been modified substantially based on Guild’s comments
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, the bill is fine. It has been changed quite a bit, yes
[2008/05/03 10:36] Beathan Vale: it no longer creates any new branches of government
[2008/05/03 10:36] You: Okey doke – will of the people – er, factions 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the referendum issue is dealt with separately
[2008/05/03 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: so well, you have been working on it a lot darn time with lots of input from all facitons?
[2008/05/03 10:36] You: BV, can we have a specific URI for the version you are moving we adopt, please?
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the CSDF is ready to support it 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:37] Moon Adamant: draft Analysis WG – not only Guild, but members of all factions and all gov branches, as well as individual experts
[2008/05/03 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to second Jamie’s request too
[2008/05/03 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: all of your votes, gwyen?
[2008/05/03 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: or just one
[2008/05/03 10:37] You: psst
[2008/05/03 10:37] You: bill text?
[2008/05/03 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: is it an amendment
[2008/05/03 10:37] You: forum?
[2008/05/03 10:37] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/03 10:38] Beathan Vale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
[2008/05/03 10:38] Beathan Vale: bottom of page 2
[2008/05/03 10:38] You: 🙂 thx – checking
[2008/05/03 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s the correct one — thank you
[2008/05/03 10:39] Beathan Vale: I note that this does call for one new agency — an advertising and publicity service — but no new land regulatory agencies
[2008/05/03 10:40] You: got it – and I note that the direct link to Baethan’s 17 April final text is viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10980
[2008/05/03 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/05/03 10:40] You: ready to vote? …
[2008/05/03 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: fantastic work
[2008/05/03 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The agency is to be done/discussed on further bills, so no objections on having that mentioned here.
[2008/05/03 10:41] Sonja Strom: I have a question.
[2008/05/03 10:41] You: ? Sonja
[2008/05/03 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: beathan, what’s the difference between the first and the second part.. one is within the cds continent, and the other is outside of it?
[2008/05/03 10:42] You: can we get Sonja’s question, and an answer from BV to her and Roc?
[2008/05/03 10:42] Sonja Strom: Who would actually approve any given private development?
[2008/05/03 10:42] Beathan Vale: no — one is close to the current CDS and the other is somewhat removed — we don’t want a build to happen close by without our having more control — so we don’t get stuck with a bad neighbor if things go south
[2008/05/03 10:42] Beathan Vale: Sonja — the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:42] You: 🙂 any more Qs? Ready to vote?
[2008/05/03 10:42] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/03 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant support it
[2008/05/03 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/05/03 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
[2008/05/03 10:43] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 10:43] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/05/03 10:43] MT Lundquist: i need clarification before voting
[2008/05/03 10:43] You: if we’re voting, MT, that’s a “nay” for now. Roc?
[2008/05/03 10:43] MT Lundquist: is it the ra that approves a build or the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: if its just the chancellor .. nucare will NOT support
[2008/05/03 10:43] MT Lundquist: no i want clarification before i vote
[2008/05/03 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: I’m not ready to vote aye on this, though I support it in principle
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we feel the same
[2008/05/03 10:44] Sonja Strom: me too
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: its more than one person can decide
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs the RA and maybe chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:44] You: OK, let’s deem it failed 3-4-0 please, with MT and Roc voting no for now. More discussion?
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/03 10:44] MT Lundquist: can anyone answer my question
[2008/05/03 10:44] Moon Adamant: er
[2008/05/03 10:44] You: “voting no”
[2008/05/03 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, read the bill… it states who decides 😛
[2008/05/03 10:45] You: Yes – Can BV answer MT?
[2008/05/03 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I know, it’s a long and extensive bill)
[2008/05/03 10:45] Moon Adamant: yes, it has been on the bill since ever
[2008/05/03 10:45] MT Lundquist: i dont believe i voted yet
[2008/05/03 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan is sadly away
[2008/05/03 10:45] You: we can always re-vote but we do not debate during votes 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:45] MT Lundquist: well the vote was called prematurly
[2008/05/03 10:45] MT Lundquist: i had questions
[2008/05/03 10:45] You: MT I must rcord yor vote, nd BV s not her to answer.
[2008/05/03 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree, MT
[2008/05/03 10:46] You: 🙂 OK then, how would you like to proceed?
[2008/05/03 10:46] Beathan Vale: OK — let me clarify
[2008/05/03 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, actually, MT is right — he called for a question before the vote
[2008/05/03 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan’s back to answer 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:46] MT Lundquist: i would like to have the point i asked clarified
[2008/05/03 10:46] MT Lundquist: then i will vote
[2008/05/03 10:46] You: The vote’s deemed withdrawn as premature
[2008/05/03 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you Mr LRA
[2008/05/03 10:46] Moon Adamant: wb Beathan
[2008/05/03 10:46] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/05/03 10:47] You: BV, MT had a Q for you
[2008/05/03 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:43] MT Lundquist: is it the ra that approves a build or the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically a variation of Sonja’s question: [10:42] Sonja Strom: Who would actually approve any given private development?
[2008/05/03 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:42] Beathan Vale: Sonja — the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:48] Beathan Vale: the RA approves a master plan setting development standards; the Chancellor has the job of inspecting developments to ensure that they comply with those standards and can approve or disapprove only based on those standards and on architectural quality concerns (which are outside the scope of the standards) — I envision that if the Chancellor approves a build that violates the standards, the SC would be asked to decide the case; a builder can appeal to the SC if the build should have been approved but wasn’t — so it is not all down to the Chancellor — there is multi-branch invovlement and checks and balances
[2008/05/03 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: but are we setting standards for EACH.
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and as usual, the RA always validates the Chancellor’s decisions 😉 )
[2008/05/03 10:49] MT Lundquist: so is each sim first approved in ra
[2008/05/03 10:49] Flyingroc Chung: Shouldnt the guild approve, since it has the expertise?
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The guild does *technical* approval through the BAC, FR
[2008/05/03 10:49] Moon Adamant: may i answer that?
[2008/05/03 10:49] You: please do
[2008/05/03 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: can the guild advise the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The executive decision is by the Chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:49] Moon Adamant: FR
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin: yes, through the BAC
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Moon
[2008/05/03 10:49] Beathan Vale: TP — no — the private builder makes those specific design decisions — but the design must be approved as consistent witht he regional plan
[2008/05/03 10:49] You: Gwyn. may Moon answer, please?
[2008/05/03 10:49] Moon Adamant: The Guild will be split in two bodies
[2008/05/03 10:50] Moon Adamant: Faculty and Board
[2008/05/03 10:50] Sonja Strom: BV, approved by whom?
[2008/05/03 10:50] Moon Adamant: they already exist, but are not very clearly separated at m
[2008/05/03 10:50] Moon Adamant: ok, Board is a contractor
[2008/05/03 10:50] Beathan Vale: aproved by the Chancellor — the Chancellorreviews and approves both design and build based ont he regional plan
[2008/05/03 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: ok if we approve then the chancellor, but each build needs to pass RA, chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:50] Beathan Vale: Also — if the RA wants more detail — we can have a very detailed regional plan
[2008/05/03 10:51] Moon Adamant: Faculty, through its Departemt Building Approval Commitee, will be a consultive organ to help the Chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:51] Moon Adamant: but JUST consultive
[2008/05/03 10:51] Jamie Palisades notes we will lose quorum soon and are way over alloted time. I believe Prin and Sonja’s questions have been answered. We are getting circular. Does anyone have any NEW questions?
[2008/05/03 10:51] You: ….
[2008/05/03 10:51] You: ….
[2008/05/03 10:52] Sonja Strom: If the Chancellor is acting based on a detailed plan approved beforehand by the RA, is there flexibility for the citizens to object to specific decisions?
[2008/05/03 10:52] Sonja Strom: Or to bring in new ideas, talents, participation?
[2008/05/03 10:52] You: BV ONLY PLEASE, let’s have the bill sponsor answer Sonja
[2008/05/03 10:52] Sonja Strom: OK
[2008/05/03 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/05/03 10:53] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/03 10:53] You: BV, an answer to Sonja? A short one? Or not?
[2008/05/03 10:54] Beathan Vale: Sonja — not formally, but that is something that is worth adding — but I think that it could be brought tot he SC even without more language in the proposal
[2008/05/03 10:54] You: OK.
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i have an idea
[2008/05/03 10:54] Beathan Vale: I will set this over a week and try to put something in the proposal
[2008/05/03 10:54] Moon Adamant still has her hand in the air
[2008/05/03 10:54] You: I have Prin, then Moon, and I suggest we either vote or postpone after that
[2008/05/03 10:54] Flyingroc Chung: SC is a black hole
[2008/05/03 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/03 10:54] Sonja Strom: Is there flexibility for the RA to bring in objections or ideas for changes?
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: the citizens all have a voice through the guild, i really think the chancellor should be adivised by the guild on these matters
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: not held to guild
[2008/05/03 10:54] Flyingroc Chung: (no offense to SC member present)
[2008/05/03 10:54] Beathan Vale: FR — that’s why I prefered a special hearing examiner
[2008/05/03 10:54] You: Prin, more? 60 seconds
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: but must at least hear them
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean i think the chancellor should have to listen to guild input before making the decision
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: there the citizens have a voice
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: all of them
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/03 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s part of the bill indeed)
[2008/05/03 10:55] Beathan Vale: TP — that is already in the bill —
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: then that answers sonja’s question
[2008/05/03 10:55] Moon Adamant: may i?
[2008/05/03 10:55] Sonja Strom: So the Guild would make a report and give that to the Chancellor to give its opinion?
[2008/05/03 10:56] You: yes please Moon
[2008/05/03 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees. It does answer Sonja’s question. Yes, Sonja, exactly.
[2008/05/03 10:56] Beathan Vale: yes — a the BAC in the guild
[2008/05/03 10:56] Moon Adamant: Sonja, first of all, Princess is right – all citizens can bring ideas through the Guild
[2008/05/03 10:56] Moon Adamant: and then consider too
[2008/05/03 10:56] You: (and I suggest we postpone, as BV said, after Moon speaks)
[2008/05/03 10:56] Moon Adamant: that atm we have TWO ways to do that
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: BAC, which aids the Chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:57] Beathan Vale: I have reviewed the bill — and it already provides for citizen appeal rights
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: and Masterplan WG, which is KEEN to have citizen’s input – thus the curveys, etc
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: surveys*
[2008/05/03 10:57] MT Lundquist: i’m afraid i have to go now
[2008/05/03 10:57] MT Lundquist: to a wedding
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: so, any citizen can join the masterplan WG
[2008/05/03 10:57] Beathan Vale: I am skeptical that we want the SC to hear appeals — rather than create a special hearing examiner position – but I am wiling to try this with our current institutions
[2008/05/03 10:57] MT Lundquist: bye all
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: done
[2008/05/03 10:57] Beathan Vale: bye
[2008/05/03 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: bye MT!
[2008/05/03 10:58] You: thx 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I suggest that if all questions were clarified we move to vote it?
[2008/05/03 10:58] You: A few procedural notes. To FR on the possible presence of SC members here today – I will seek clarification on whether the overlap will continue. That’s a metter of interest to me, and relevant to our ‘conflict of interest’ bills pending. To Gwyn on the “premature vote” – actually MT asked his question after we began voting, in my record – but I agree with you that stopping the vote worked out fine, as a practical matter.
[2008/05/03 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: second GL
[2008/05/03 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to go in two mins
[2008/05/03 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks around for SC members and doesn’t find any.
[2008/05/03 10:58] Beathan Vale: I do want to make one change — changing “the citizen” to “a citizen”
[2008/05/03 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: k BV
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Taken as friendly, Beathan (I thought taht was a typo)
[2008/05/03 10:59] You: Gwyn, is that consistent with it being our first action item next week? Or are you saying, vote now?
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote now, yes.
[2008/05/03 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: now
[2008/05/03 10:59] You: ah
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why postpone, if there are no further questions?
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/05/03 10:59] Beathan Vale: ok
[2008/05/03 10:59] You: members – he says s l o w l y – are you ready to vote?
[2008/05/03 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: i hate to vote and run, but yes
[2008/05/03 10:59] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I’m more ready to vote than ever in my live 😉
[2008/05/03 10:59] Beathan Vale: yes — with change from “the citizen” to “a citizen”
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay, *eager*!
[2008/05/03 11:00] You: (grin) Members please state your note. I vote aye.
[2008/05/03 11:00] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/05/03 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: nay
[2008/05/03 11:00] You: 4-2-0
[2008/05/03 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt is afk, he will vote aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Moon Adamant: passed?
[2008/05/03 11:00] Beathan Vale: yes passed
[2008/05/03 11:00] You: I declare it passed.
[2008/05/03 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: whoooooooooooooottttttttt
[2008/05/03 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/03 11:01] You: Shall we adjourn for today?
[2008/05/03 11:01] Beathan Vale: yes — election meeting to follow after I eat
[2008/05/03 11:01] You: 🙂 where, BV? Here in Rathaus?
[2008/05/03 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with either adjourning or continuing for another half hour
[2008/05/03 11:01] Beathan Vale: yes — here
[2008/05/03 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly I’m afraid I have to go at half past
[2008/05/03 11:02] You: Very well then – if no objections, we are adjourned, and thank you all
—-
[2008/05/03 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[2008/05/03 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you all
[2008/05/03 11:02] Beathan Vale: election committee to meet in twenty minutes
[2008/05/03 11:02] You: and I hope we haven’t soured you on democracy permanently, Arthulius 😀
[2008/05/03 11:02] Sonja Strom: Thank you. Bye bye.
[2008/05/03 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 11:03] Beathan Vale: Democracy is the worst form of government in the world — except for all the others
[2008/05/03 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: both Arthulius & DivineLolita stood around until the end, stoicly so 🙂 Thanks for coming!
[2008/05/03 11:03] Moon Adamant: yes, thank you 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:03] You: BV, can you make sure to hook up with MT, Prin and Gwyn, whose ability to attend today is an issue?
[2008/05/03 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh btw FR â€” just for the record â€” I resigned from the SC *permanently* when running as a candidate
[2008/05/03 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: permanently?
[2008/05/03 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes of course
[2008/05/03 11:04] Sonja Strom: really, *permanently*?
[2008/05/03 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol
[2008/05/03 11:04] Sonja Strom: ok 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: just like I said I would never run for RA again 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:05] Sonja Strom: That will make Robert happy, I believe.
[2008/05/03 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This basically means that the SC, if tehy ever wish me back again (I suspect not!) they would have to invite me as a new candidate
[2008/05/03 11:05] You: But what is permanence? 😀 entropy’s overrated. Nothing *ever* ends. Cheers all
[2008/05/03 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I’m not accepting any offers until this term is over
[2008/05/03 11:05] Sonja Strom: Oh, I was thinking you meant *permanently*
[2008/05/03 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Resignation is permanent, Sonja 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:06] Sonja Strom: For me resignation is from a particular appointment.
[2008/05/03 11:06] Sonja Strom: Usually one can be appointed again later if circustances permit it.
[2008/05/03 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sure
[2008/05/03 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The future is not in my hands, lol
[2008/05/03 11:06] Sonja Strom: right, understand.
[2008/05/03 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only resign â€” not predict what happens â€” who knows, there might not be an SC in a year 😀
[2008/05/03 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: alright I need to shower
[2008/05/03 11:07] Sonja Strom: or an SL lol
[2008/05/03 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Sonja hehe
[2008/05/03 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: be back for beathans thing in a few
[

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 10, 2008

Agenda

1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 09h00 – 09h15)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times: process for determining next meeting
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
— Set ruture meeting date for budget discussion.
— Set future schedule for Chancellor reports.
— Discuss charter & expected date for Election Commission work.
2. Ccnfirmation of SC appointment nominations (5 mins: 09h15 – 09h20)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

3. Commerce Commission recommendations (20 mins.: 09h20 – 09h40)
4. Parliamentarian, etc. for RA (10 mins.: 09h40 – 09h50)
5. Conflicts of Interest, etc. (20 mins.: 09h50 – 10h10)
Review of open proposals & next steps (expected to be discussion only)
— Citizen bill from PMR Walpole: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— Jamie’s proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836
— Beathan’s Term Limits redraft: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1827
— Additional proposals re: oath of office
— Additional proposals re: recusals
6. Private Development Proposal implementation (20 mins.: 10h10 – 10h30)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10980

NEW ITEMS

7. Report from SC meeting, regarding RA rules of order (10 mins, 10h30 – 10h40)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
8. Other?
9. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h40-10h55)
Adjournment: 10h55

Summary

10 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Held in Colonia Nova Praetorium
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1850
===
[09:11] Called to order.
[09:11] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:11] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified. (Not raised.)
[09:13] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:14] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:16] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule. (See posts on this, default time agreed.)
[09:16] 1f – Consent agenda. No items.
— Budget issue: [09:16] Agreed to invite Treasurer for a general budget chat on 24 May or 31 May meeting. Approved without dissent. [09:25] — Chancellor reports: [09:26] Agreed to invite and request Chancellor to make his required monthly reports to the RA at the last regularly scheduled meeting of each calendar month, commencing 31 May. Approved without dissent. [09:29] [09:30] 4 – (mislabeled as 2 in transcript) – RA secretary/parliamentarian – discussion only.
Request from Chancellor for webportal funding.
— Motion to approve at US$10/month made & seconded [09:27]. Approved unanimously [09:28].
[09:47] 2 – SC nominations.
— SC has asked we confirm proposed appointments of Dnate Mars and Cindy Ecksol. See:
/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
— General agreement to invite the nominees to RA before approving, as agenda item for next week.
[10:00] 3 – Commerce Commission.
— Significant discussion. Plan to redraft and re-present next week.
[10:48] Agenda modifications.
[10:49] 7 -LRA report on SC decision regarding RA rules of order etc.
[10:57] 9 – citizen comment / open mike.
— Various conflict of interest bill comments.
[11:02] Adjourned.

Transcript

====
Transcript of 10 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/05/10 9:05] You: Howdy Danton
[2008/05/10 9:06] You: good morning
[2008/05/10 9:06] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/10 9:07] Jamie Palisades stands quirtly in the New SL, Now With Extra Lag …. looks at chairs … and waits for avs to rez so he does not sit on someone’s lap … again …
[2008/05/10 9:07] You: Hi, Slightly Irrerevent
[2008/05/10 9:08] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie, Hi Beathan, hi again TP
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: Let me send an IM or two – I expect Sonja, but Gwyn sent regrets
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: oop – that she os
[2008/05/10 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja is online
[2008/05/10 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[2008/05/10 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen is regrettable
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: BV, you’re able to stay?
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: You walking double entrendre you Prin
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sorry… busy…
[2008/05/10 9:09] Beathan Vale: yes — I did not make it to my seminar
[2008/05/10 9:09] Danton Sideways: Hi Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:09] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Moon
[2008/05/10 9:10] Danton Sideways: Wow TP is levitating
[2008/05/10 9:10] You: Good morning all. Hi Moon. We’re quorate. Shall we start?
[2008/05/10 9:10] MT Lundquist: hi all again
[2008/05/10 9:10] Sonja Strom: I’m having trouble getting things to rez.
[2008/05/10 9:10] MT Lundquist: sorry just eating rl
[2008/05/10 9:10] Sonja Strom: but I can talk
[2008/05/10 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: its the incredible lightness i behold
[2008/05/10 9:10] You: 🙂 take your time Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:10] Moon Adamant: you’re slowly rezzing to me Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:11] Danton Sideways: a visual pun
—-
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: 🙂 OK, let;s call to order.
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: Agenda is posted at – viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1849
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: Welcome all.
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[2008/05/10 9:11] You: 1a
[2008/05/10 9:12] You: Would every one please assent to recording this session. I assent.
[2008/05/10 9:12] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent but i cant see beathan
[2008/05/10 9:12] Beathan Vale: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: are u next to rose beathan
[2008/05/10 9:12] Beathan Vale: no one want to see me anytway
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i do now
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: Will need recording assents from, I think, Moon, MT, and if they speak here Danton and Rose & Symo .. let’s go on
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[2008/05/10 9:13] You: 1c
[2008/05/10 9:13] MT Lundquist: assent
[2008/05/10 9:14] Rose Springvale: assent, but have no need to speak
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: Anyone here who is not an RA memebr who especially wants to spaek to today’s agenda?
[2008/05/10 9:14] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: OK then
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[2008/05/10 9:14] You: 1d
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: Routine notice – please read the posted transcript, let us know if anythings’s wrong 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: 1e – future times
[2008/05/10 9:15] Danton Sideways: Nothing wrong but
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: …? Danton
[2008/05/10 9:15] Danton Sideways: the transcript took a long time to be posted
[2008/05/10 9:15] Jamie Palisades grins I agree, and thanks- See agenda item 2, let’s discuss it there
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[2008/05/10 9:16] You: 1e –
[2008/05/10 9:16] Danton Sideways: ok
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: we’re settled on this tinme slot for now, so I can remove this routine agenda item I think
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: I do want us to go to biweekly (sigh) and will raise that as soon as our backlog seems under control (grin)
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[2008/05/10 9:16] You: 1f
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: Consent items – meaning, under our rules, quick noncontroversial stuff that requires no debate
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: I actually have some today 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: Welcome, Questor, open meeting, have a seat, but let uis know if you wish to speak please, under our rules of order
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well is the fact that i dont get money from the chancellor one of those and how do i get the money for the guided tour
[2008/05/10 9:18] Quaestor Hax: TY
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: hes saying things like : oh yes you will get your money!
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[2008/05/10 9:18] You: 🙂 first item is budget issues
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: I have a bit of a report and suggestionm there
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: but i havent i mean i think i dont care who owns it i just want that thing done
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: first, let me mention to Prin that she will get communication about that reimbursement requiuest today.
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but im not paying for it out of my pocket just cos of principlel
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi waves at Q
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: Second, let me point out that the general issue of budget changes and how to get paid/reimb’d is .. a little too informal, to my view 😀
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: I’ve asked our treasurer Sudane to do two things for us
[2008/05/10 9:20] You: one is to work on a slightly more transparent and predictable communication and tracking format for those paymebts – and –
[2008/05/10 9:20] You: I think it’s going to involve Google Docs and be announced shortly
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: that requires no RA action – but this second point does –
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: I would like Sudane to come and make a presentation to the RA on budgeting process
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: both where we are, and how we operate and change it
[2008/05/10 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: may i suggest the chancellor attend?
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: she’s happy to do so
[2008/05/10 9:22] You: and we should set a date *in advance* so we know RA members can attend, and others (as Prin points out wisely) might like to hear it too
[2008/05/10 9:22] You: so : How do the next four Saturdays look for you lot? Can we pick one, say at least 2 weeks away, and “put a stake in the ground”?
[2008/05/10 9:23] You: I think we ought to try and do it when everyone;s avail. And Moon, if you have access to your colleague Gwyn’s schedule, her availability would matter too
[2008/05/10 9:23] You: Ideally we should have two dates, then make sure Su and Alexi also can attend
[2008/05/10 9:23] Jamie Palisades looks at calendar
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and mostly the chancellor please more than us even
[2008/05/10 9:23] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: mt and i are available both days
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: all four
[2008/05/10 9:23] Moon Adamant: well, Gwyn’s schedule is always a bit full
[2008/05/10 9:24] Moon Adamant: but i’ll tell her to talk to you directly Jamie
[2008/05/10 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: wiat next weekend isnt good sorry
[2008/05/10 9:24] Moon Adamant: as said, i do not control other people’s time
[2008/05/10 9:24] You: hm ladies & gents, what would you say to … 24 May and 31 May as our target dates
[2008/05/10 9:24] You: I understand Moon, just thought I;d ask as a courtesy 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:25] You: anyone know they have conflicts on the 24th or 31st?
[2008/05/10 9:25] Sonja Strom: let me get my calendar – right back
[2008/05/10 9:25] Beathan Vale: I don’t know yet
[2008/05/10 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: those are good to us
[2008/05/10 9:25] You: I suggest we move on to the 2nd consentitem while others look.
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: (and thx Sonja, BV – hey I hope us to reduce meeting load shortly, which I hope will help.)
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[2008/05/10 9:26] You: 2d item
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: We need a regular plan for the Chancellor to report to us
[2008/05/10 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: its a constituitional requirement
[2008/05/10 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: that he do so
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: Indeed
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:26] Sonja Strom: I don’t have any conflicts on the 24th or 31st.
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: I suggest we do this, and ask for your approval:
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: Alexi suggested to me that he routinely come to the last meeting ecah calendar month.
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: SO I would like us to adopt a resolution accepting and requesting that he do so, and I will reference the dates and times
[2008/05/10 9:28] You: 🙂 this will give us a basis for further conversation, if he proves unable to join us
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. second
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/05/10 9:28] You: 🙂 any objections? Is that generally acceptable?
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that sounds great
[2008/05/10 9:29] Jamie Palisades hears no objection …
[2008/05/10 9:29] Sonja Strom: sounds good.
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: OK, passes w/o dissent. Thx. I will post it to the forums and msg Alexicon.
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: and in lieu of any objection, let’s ask Su and Alexi for the 24th or 31st for that budget chat
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: I will do so and report back to you
[2008/05/10 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that sounds good
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: next item
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[2008/05/10 9:30] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: :)_ Danton’s telepathic
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: Your LRA thinks he needs help, ladies and gentlemen
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im here
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: I raise the following issue,m which we had discussed before briefly but never really sorted out
[2008/05/10 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi throws a handcuff at beathan
[2008/05/10 9:31] You: — do I/we need a secretary/scribe, and do I/we need a parlimentarian?
[2008/05/10 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: that would be nice yes
[2008/05/10 9:31] Danton Sideways: How do I ask for permission to speak on this?
[2008/05/10 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: just did
[2008/05/10 9:31] You: I have been bootlegging this LRA thing so far, grin
[2008/05/10 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and well
[2008/05/10 9:32] Jamie Palisades grins, yes, Danton you did, and thanks. Go ahead please
[2008/05/10 9:32] Danton Sideways: Just to say that I checked again, and the transcripts still seem to missing from the forum?
[2008/05/10 9:32] Danton Sideways: *for last week?
[2008/05/10 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: they are on the wiki? no?
[2008/05/10 9:32] You: hm thx – which ones? I put everythign I have into the board ‘RA announcements’
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: I have *never* got write permission to the wiki .. sigh .. it;s not an officially ownred resource
[2008/05/10 9:33] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: Danton, you had more? if not, then Rose is next
[2008/05/10 9:33] Danton Sideways: Ok I looked at the wrong category sorry
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: np 🙂 but I HAVE been slow on that Danton. Rose?
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: i just wanted to share a tool that Gwyn shared with me a long time ago, just posted the transcript of my last meeting, which ended half an hour ago
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/colour-code/
[2008/05/10 9:34] You: Love to have it, thanks.
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: it takes all the junk out of the transcript for you
[2008/05/10 9:34] You: That was a Guild group, I gather? Thanks for that
[2008/05/10 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: FR
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: just copy your log, then paste into the box, and then the copy is ready to post
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i got the monkey
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: yes, a sub committee meeting
[2008/05/10 9:35] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/05/10 9:35] Sonja Strom: hi FR
[2008/05/10 9:35] Flyingroc Chung: hi, sorry for being late
[2008/05/10 9:35] Danton Sideways: Hey tweeter
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no naked dancing then for you
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: Morning Roc, please assent to recording, agenda’s in the usual forum place
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: Thanks Rose I will explore that
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: but
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: back to my point
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: ‘I think LRA needs some help’
[2008/05/10 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: I assent to recording
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: always – but at least in my case 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: three things
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: 1. should I just use the Rose/Gwyn device for a few weeks, and we will see if transcript posting speeds up? or is there other action to be taken about that?
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: if I hear nothing, we’ll just proceed that way for now
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: /m e raises her hand
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: …please, Moon
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: why doesn’t the RA create a Secretary role?
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: that takes note of motions and votes?
[2008/05/10 9:37] Flyingroc Chung: there is supposed to be an RA Arcivist
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: it can even circle between the REps
[2008/05/10 9:38] Moon Adamant: yes, FR, i know
[2008/05/10 9:38] Moon Adamant: but i am not sure if that role was ever filled
[2008/05/10 9:38] You: Fair question. what do you lot think? Would one – or all – of you be willing to do this? Or shall we put that Q on the table and wait a bit and see?
[2008/05/10 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think thats a good idea
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: nope.. i dont think anyone knows how difficult it is to REALLY be active in RA and i cannot imagine us being responsible for that and doing our duty at the same time
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: when things go fast .. in debates
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont think one of us can do that i cant and i dont think MT can ..
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: i dunno why Princess
[2008/05/10 9:39] You: hmm – I suggest we talk more a bit about it offline in groups and then come back to it. Not going to resolve it quickly today it seems.
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: that’s how we do it at The Guild
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well you arent me .. the guild is not the RA
[2008/05/10 9:39] You: Rose had more? Any other last words on tis for now?
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: who has agendas as big as RA’s
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale: yes
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: its much more quick……
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale: it is very easy to turn on chat log
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: have you been in RA its nto the same as guild
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: adn participate fully
[2008/05/10 9:40] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens .. for about 2 more minutes
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but stopping to d that
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: so anyone can do it, then take a few minutes afterward to clean and post
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think its for the guild to tell ME how do to this, shut up rose and moon
[2008/05/10 9:40] Moon Adamant: For your information Princess, i was already a Rep in this RA .)
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: shut up moon
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: excuse me, i thought i had the floor
[2008/05/10 9:40] Moon Adamant: kindly speak to me in a polite manner
[2008/05/10 9:40] Quaestor Hax: /eeps
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: no i wont til you act nice too you fool
[2008/05/10 9:41] Moon Adamant: i call thye present to witness what is being said
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: ahem
[2008/05/10 9:41] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2008/05/10 9:41] Beathan Vale: ::sigh::
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: Prin, ‘shut up’s not part of our usual manner of keeping order here
[2008/05/10 9:41] Rose Springvale: she’s gone
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: May I ask that Moon finish uninterrupted for 30 secs, then Prin, then Rose, then let’s move on
[2008/05/10 9:42] You: she can come back if she likes 🙂 no one has ejected anyone
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: i apologize to the assembled RA
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: i was suggesting a process we use at the Guild which is most efficient
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: but of course, the RA is sovereign to decide their procedures
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: done
[2008/05/10 9:42] You: thx
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: Prin’s absent for themoment. Rose? More?
[2008/05/10 9:43] Rose Springvale: i was finished .. just suggesting its easy to turn on chat log for a meeting. doesn’t take any time from participation
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: thx. next item
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: We’re a little behind, as always, and I have further aggravated this by accidentally reversing agenda items 2 and 4. I suggest we finish off 4 (this one) then go to 2.
[2008/05/10 9:44] You: all that’s left here is parliamentarian. Here is my take:
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: I think I need someone to keep an eye on the rules. I think it would need to be someone who can speak at meetings here, and may or may not be an RA member, so I plan to bring a bill to permit that. But such a person would not vote, make motions, etc. (if not an RA member).
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: So .. 🙂 proposed bill coming. Any comment?
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: (And no I do not have a recruit yet)
[2008/05/10 9:45] Beathan Vale: have you asked Justice?
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: Well, BV, he is an SC member.
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: Turns out he did not resign – as Prin and I discovered yestreday
[2008/05/10 9:46] MT Lundquist: so the parliamentarian could keep the minutes as just discussed
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: that’s also possible
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: just wanted to run it by you folks first for any reactions
[2008/05/10 9:46] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: ready for next item?
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: back to the agenda order 🙂 sigh
[2008/05/10 9:47] Justice Soothsayer: ave, citizens, and I consent to recording.
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: Hello Justice, please assent to being recorded, welcome.
[2008/05/10 9:47] Flyingroc Chung: is there anyone who is not RA willing to actuallydo it?
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[2008/05/10 9:47] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: FR: maybe, but I can’t recruit into an undefined task
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: SC nominations
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: here’s the URL from our agenda:
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: /viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: SC nominates new member of the SC, and RA confirms them.
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: Let me mention several things just for our records and common understanding
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: – we were informed recently that Gwyneth resigned SC when she became an RA candidate.
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: So they’ve lost one
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: – we also were informed recently that Justice did not – and he’s here BTW – so he’s still on the SC.
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: and finally
[2008/05/10 9:49] MT Lundquist: didnt justice resign too
[2008/05/10 9:49] Justice Soothsayer: No, Justice never resigned.
[2008/05/10 9:50] Justice Soothsayer: Justice promised to resign from SC if elected to the RA.
[2008/05/10 9:50] MT Lundquist: oh i thought you did
[2008/05/10 9:50] Justice Soothsayer: But, sadly, I was not elected. 😉
[2008/05/10 9:50] Jamie Palisades thinks that’s a good topic for discussion … when we get to conflicts of interest
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: for now
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: we have two appointments to approve
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: Cindy Ecksol and Dnate Mars
[2008/05/10 9:50] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: 🙂 and I have a suggestion
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: which I suspect will annoy some
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: I do not see either candidate here
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: preparing to be annoyed
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: I suggets we invite them to cme speak with us, and decline to act until they do
[2008/05/10 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: I am annoyed
[2008/05/10 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: am very happy
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: I see no reason for that — we know them both — why delay?
[2008/05/10 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: Hm
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: because we dont know thier motives
[2008/05/10 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: I had to come to the RA when I became SC
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: motives for wanting to take an active part in our community through the SC?
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: OK — FR —
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: indded FR we deserve that at least i am annoyed at beathan for his annoyance
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: jk
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: fine — let’s hold hearings
[2008/05/10 9:52] MT Lundquist: who can i be annoyed at
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: 🙂 I am aware of no defect in either one
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: me usually
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy has lots of defects
[2008/05/10 9:53] Flyingroc Chung: the SC agenda isn’t all that packed.
[2008/05/10 9:53] Beathan Vale: well — Dnate is blue – is that a defect?
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: and I caution you that our laws limit the reasons why we would approve or disapprove
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: yes dnate is blue and that is true, he was one time little red riding hood too
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: that concrrns me greatly
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: but I think a short comment from each before we vote would lbe reasonable 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:54] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/10 9:54] You: well, no, being blue is a lifesstyle choice …
[2008/05/10 9:54] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: he carried a bastket throught the woods dressed as a little girl
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: to entice wolves
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: its true
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and now blue anad and again
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: blue red blue
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: itrs true
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: id like to hear his explaination
[2008/05/10 9:55] You: would anyone like to move the approval of the candidates now? or shall I invited them to next week?
[2008/05/10 9:56] Beathan Vale: next week is fine
[2008/05/10 9:56] MT Lundquist: next week so we can hear them speak
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: rose can make a nice invitation
[2008/05/10 9:56] You: and can I ask Justice , as an SC member, if he sees any issues with that approach?
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: personally i dont see why we care what they think
[2008/05/10 9:56] You: No, Prin, sadly, CDS hounded Rose out of office, so we no longer can use her skills 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: darn!
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she was hounded.. lmao?
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: what a lie mr. LRA
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she quit and alexicon asked her to be PIO and she said no
[2008/05/10 9:57] You: Justice? Any comments? Heh – on our approval plan
[2008/05/10 9:57] You: ahem – let’s leave it, hm TP?
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: and now insits on being a bitch
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/05/10 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: no, no comments at this time,
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: ‘bitch’? OK. I am going to wait for Justice to offer any remarks, or decline, and thenfeal with that.
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: Ok thx Justice.
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: ThePrincess, I ask you to retract that out of order remark – which has no place here, hm?
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: I don’t see meanspirited namecalling as productive in the RA.
[2008/05/10 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ill explain. that is a personal opinion of her behavior to me alone in the past few onths and it was uncalled for an inappropriate in this venue
[2008/05/10 9:58] Rose Springvale: its okay, i’ll just go
[2008/05/10 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i apologize
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: Thank you Prin. No need Rose, up to you, this is an open meeting.
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: Item closed.
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: next item
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: (oh, and yes, I’ll send invites to Cindy and Dnate) for next week
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[2008/05/10 10:00] You: 3
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Commerce Commission

[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Where are we, MT?
[2008/05/10 10:00] Danton Sideways: mumbles
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: the commerce commission report has been posted for sometime now
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: OK, but are we ready to act?
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: it represents the collective views of the citizens of many factions who attended the meetings
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: i stress it is not only my view or that of NuCARE
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: rather of the citizens
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: there are I know some contriversial elements that need to be discussed at RA
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: I hand it over for that discussion
[2008/05/10 10:02] You: Let me ask two process questions. First, is this a constitutional issue?
[2008/05/10 10:02] You: I ask because it affects the voting, etc.
[2008/05/10 10:02] MT Lundquist: no i dont think so
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: OK – though I could imagine us getting into that in the context of taking property
[2008/05/10 10:03] MT Lundquist: and maybe the elements should be considered seperately
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: which is my second Q 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: Hello WIdget, welcome, this is an open meeting, but we have rules of order, so let me know if you wish to speak please/.
[2008/05/10 10:03] Widget Whiteberry: thank you Jamie, thank you every one
[2008/05/10 10:04] You: Q2: have the disagreements about whether the plan to take some private property been sorted out? I know there’s disagreement. I just wonder: is this the right time to work on those here? (If so, great.)
[2008/05/10 10:04] MT Lundquist: i would suggest we discuss it as it was proposed by some
[2008/05/10 10:05] Beathan Vale: I am opposed to the taking provision — the bill is generally fine — but I know that a majority of citizens do not like the taking provision
[2008/05/10 10:05] MT Lundquist: and it was a point for consideration in Pats bill
[2008/05/10 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: well i have a qustion .. what do you propose we do about people who do not comply with the convenent
[2008/05/10 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: covenent
[2008/05/10 10:05] You: OK. Thanks. Hm. Just for reference, MT, this is still your current bill, yes: — viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: its as simple as there is a covenent and if its not complied with……..what do we do as a community?
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: just checking
[2008/05/10 10:06] Beathan Vale: TP — I have proposed a tier rent process –charge double rent for lack of compliance
[2008/05/10 10:06] Danton Sideways: I request to speak when appropriate
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: how does that help anything
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: it was Pats bill i headed the commision
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: they just pay ten dollars not five
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: but yes thats it
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: the bill came from your party Danton
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan that is not a remedy we dont need five dollars we need a sim that is vibrant
[2008/05/10 10:07] You: We “can” do a number of things if we choose – including penalty rent as BV says – and zoning enforcement – and imposing special requirements on any new buyers when land opens up
[2008/05/10 10:07] Beathan Vale: stripping a citizen of property is never acceptable — esepcially as voting rights aer linked to prop ownership — the bill will not pass SC muster as is — it is unconstitutional
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: comepletely unacceptable response sir
[2008/05/10 10:07] You: hmmm let’s have a speaking queue, hm?
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: so how do we act if a covenent is not met
[2008/05/10 10:08] Danton Sideways: er hem
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do a bout other covenent issues
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: I suggest we take turns and limit to 2 minutes for now
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gosh jamie
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: let us talk ffs
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: Prin, you first
[2008/05/10 10:08] Beathan Vale: TP — iRL there are penalties and fines — not confiscation of property — why not here
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: you cant talk that way its a back and forth thing conversation
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: I agree Prin – WHEN people aren’t all stepping on each other’s words, grin
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: no thats not true eventually you lose the proerty ..and NO one ever said TAKE it they said trade
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: did you have more comments, just yet?
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: if a person wants residential property use, then give them that
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/05/10 10:09] Beathan Vale: TP — no you only lose the property if you don’t pay the fines — I do this stuff for al iving
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: if i buy commericial land and treat it as prim land or residentilal, then lets trade them for what they use it for
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i know ” BEATHAN IS A LAWYER”
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: well beathan i think this isnt rl
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and we have a only a few lots in CDS
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and some are commercial and they need to be used as such
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: if someone buys it and dosent
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: then give them what they use if ofot
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: it for
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: or get rid of our covenents and call it mainland
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and then we take what we get
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/10 10:10] Jamie Palisades smiles quietly, noting the current RA rules of order which provide for time limits and speaker rotation, thanks ThePrincess for her comments and looks next to MT, then expecting to ask Beathan and Danton …
[2008/05/10 10:10] You: More for now, MT?
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: ok well i propose that we deal with each recommendation in turn
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: we have started at the end
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: Propose that the RA form a Chamber of Commerce for CDS. That this Chamber be made up of volunteer members from those holding and using for commercial purposes commercial land in CDS. That the leader of the Chamber of Commerce be elected by the members of the Chamber of Commerce every six months. That the Chamber of Commerce:
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: is the first recommendation
[2008/05/10 10:11] Jamie Palisades thinks that is a great idea – and suspects that BV’s and Danton’s concerns will be dealt with in turn if we proceed that way. Can we ask MT to take us through it section by section?
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: this would be to promote commerce
[2008/05/10 10:12] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/10 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: good idea
[2008/05/10 10:12] MT Lundquist: 1) supports the business community and advocates for its members by creating a strong local economy. Supporting the existing shop owners (by having the CDS launch promotional events and do some advertising; 2) promotes the community. Attracting new content creators willing to open a shop in the CDS; sponsoring events to attract customers; weekly social event shop promotion/events 3) provides networking opportunities. Financing a promotional campaign grid-wide to let the SL residents know that the CDS is a shopping destination for high quality products (and services). 4) represents the interests of business with government; 5) supports business-friendly ballot measures and evaluates candidates for public office.
[2008/05/10 10:12] MT Lundquist: that would be the job description of the chamber as such
[2008/05/10 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: how does this relate to the old chamber of commerce
[2008/05/10 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: ?
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: it was called something else
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: pat did it and let it flounder
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: from what i heard
[2008/05/10 10:13] MT Lundquist: i propose that we use this for the future
[2008/05/10 10:13] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind … ge=NL+4-14
[2008/05/10 10:13] MT Lundquist: endorsed by the ra
[2008/05/10 10:13] Jamie Palisades mutters: Merchant Assn or Merchant Guild I think
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: pat discussed it at the meeting .. he was there FR
[2008/05/10 10:14] Danton Sideways: I have a minor point of order here
[2008/05/10 10:14] Flyingroc Chung: Section 1: The Neualtenburg Chamber of Commerce (Chamber of Commerce) is an institution under the auspices of the Guild, which is chartered with the responsibility of maintaining a public registry of companies, their securities and obligations (the Register).
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: Pat was involved in the commerce commission meting a few of them
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild? thats like the guild we have now? i dont understand
[2008/05/10 10:15] Moon Adamant: no, not the current Guild
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: well the chamber would have a slightly different remit to promote commerce
[2008/05/10 10:15] You: hmmm MT – where’s the text that we actually would make a new bill that creates the CofC? Sorry, I may be just dim today. While you find that, I will go look & see what else we’d have to *repeal*
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: as noted above in chat
[2008/05/10 10:15] Beathan Vale: FR – this brings it back into existence on terms that make more sense in our current structure
[2008/05/10 10:15] Danton Sideways: Please LRA I have a point of order
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: if the ra wants to progress this then i can create a bill if not i can drop it
[2008/05/10 10:16] You: Hang on a sec all, please 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:16] You: Danton, did you have a pertinent question?
[2008/05/10 10:16] Danton Sideways: The recognized speakers were beathen then myself
[2008/05/10 10:16] Danton Sideways: *recognized
[2008/05/10 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: yay process
[2008/05/10 10:17] Beathan Vale: I favor considering this bill in parts — but I will vote any on any form of confiscation of citizen property — it is susceptivle to manipulation (which would take people off the voter roles pprior to an election) and is just plain wrong
[2008/05/10 10:18] You: I acknowledge this, and we do get a litle informal sometimes, but in the interests of productive progress, I hope. Hadn’t forgotton, and I think that last thread exhasuted itself. This is a good time for your comments, Danton, but note that we’re talking at the moment about the Cof C part and *not* the property-taking part. That’s how we decided to approach this item 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:18] Beathan Vale: there are alternatives — as as long as there is any alternative, even if perceived as “:inadequate” -0 it is a better alternative that public theft of private property
[2008/05/10 10:18] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: hello!
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: one can remain a citizen if they leave cds with no land hun
[2008/05/10 10:18] You: BV, IF we are going to take about taking, it;s Danton’s turn, grin
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its a totally invalid point
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: one can stay a citizen without land
[2008/05/10 10:19] Beathan Vale: TP — no that is not true
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry.. did i speak out of turn
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: that is too true
[2008/05/10 10:19] Danton Sideways: Well I just want to speak briefly especially because I have to leave in 10 minutes
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: we passed the law during your term
[2008/05/10 10:19] Jamie Palisades notes that apparently the desire to talk about property taking is overwhelmibng MT’s suggestion to go one item at a time — everyone OK with that?
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: we can leave our land and pay 100l a month
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: and *please*, Danton has a time limit and came to us to speak, let’s let him. Please do, Danton.
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and stay a citizen
[2008/05/10 10:19] Flyingroc Chung: just jump in danton, if you dont interrupt you wont be able to say anything 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:19] MT Lundquist: i would rather do it one at a time as the first is less contraversial
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: Ok I have two issues for which I am personally a case study
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: One is that my house is in Colonia Nova commercial area
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: the other is that I want to use my shop for non-profit activities
[2008/05/10 10:20] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: I think the second issue is more critical
[2008/05/10 10:21] You: (Danton has the floor – noting Moon next)
[2008/05/10 10:21] MT Lundquist: they both need to be discussed
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: I can always relocate my house, but I would rather ask for an exemption or something 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: but I am determined to use my shop for non-profit purposes
[2008/05/10 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi whispers you wont need to cos that is considered business
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: Finished
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: so dont worry danton
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: we are concerened with empty lots
[2008/05/10 10:22] You: Prin? Moon’s next
[2008/05/10 10:22] Moon Adamant: if i may….
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: well i wanted him to know he needent worry
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: If i recall correctly, the city of Colonia Nova accumulates residential with commercial function
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: meaning, you can have shops or houses
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: insulae*
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: yes moon not many lots are stricktly commercial and i think dantons isnt ieven im not sure
[2008/05/10 10:23] Beathan Vale: yes — my house is so zoned
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i think only the lots right on the forum is only commerical
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: i believe only Stalls are strictly commercial
[2008/05/10 10:23] You: um, is Moon done?
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: but it’s a question to read teh covenant
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/05/10 10:23] You: thx for that
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: correct moon she makes a good point
[2008/05/10 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and one ive told danton twice
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: we seem to be on the last, most controversial topic, in spite of MT’s efforts and mine, grin
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: shall we stay with it anyway, then?
[2008/05/10 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: im having a bad day sorry
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: NP
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: ok then go back please
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: so
[2008/05/10 10:24] Beathan Vale: let’s vote on this last topic first
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: hmmmmm
[2008/05/10 10:24] Beathan Vale: if it fails, MT may want to revise the bill
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: It was felt important that a definition of commercial activity be established before judging whether land is in commercial use. The following definition is suggested for adoption by the RA. Commerce is a division of trade or production which deals with the exchange of goods and services from producer to final consumer. It comprises the trading of something of economic such as goods, services, information or money between two or more entities.
[2008/05/10 10:25] You: well can MT summarize what *currently* happens under that last bit of the bill?
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: i’ll copy the elements to chat
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: That commerce, as defined, must occur on the commercial lots on a weekly basis and be demonstratable on request to the Chamber of Commerce. That this be a level of traffic (as shown in ‘about land’) of a minumim of 3 (no campers). That if commercial activity as defined does not occur to the satisfaction of the Chamber of Commerce thatthe following remedies can be applied
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period; If the commercial criteria are not satisfied within the three week period the Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate; The Chamber of Commerce is then required to sell the commercial lot to another commercial trader.
[2008/05/10 10:26] MT Lundquist: the traffic item was raised specifically by some citizens
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/10 10:26] Danton Sideways: Goodbye everyone 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:26] You: When MT’s done we will have questions
[2008/05/10 10:26] MT Lundquist: bye danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] You: Thanks for coming Danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant nods
[2008/05/10 10:26] Sonja Strom: goodbye Danton 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:26] Widget Whiteberry: Good bye, Danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant: bye Danton 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:27] MT Lundquist: thats the recommendation
[2008/05/10 10:27] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:27] You: Summarizing: MT has a planned motion, in the form set out in chat text above, to create a definition of commercial activity AND a way to adjudicate it (CoC) AND a penalty for failing: noncomplying owner loses their lot, by forced sale back to CDS. Do I have that about right?
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: the penalty is not correct jamie
[2008/05/10 10:28] MT Lundquist: the coc can require
[2008/05/10 10:28] MT Lundquist: doesnt have to require
[2008/05/10 10:28] You: ahhh
[2008/05/10 10:28] You: got it
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that needs to be reworded though
[2008/05/10 10:28] Beathan Vale: sounds like an excuse for arbitrary and capicious action
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. they will NOT lose citizenship
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like how its worded at all
[2008/05/10 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: I dont like giving the chamber of commerce the power to force the sale of of someone’s land.
[2008/05/10 10:29] MT Lundquist: as i said if we want a bill i will reword as required by the RA discussion
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: I suggest we take it as a motion, get a second, then discuss, starting with the politely-waiting Moon
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: or it it too early for a motion MT?
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: *is
[2008/05/10 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont eithe rFR but there must some way to enforce the covenent what do you fine people suggest?
[2008/05/10 10:29] MT Lundquist: the idea was it to be for discussion at this stage
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: OK – NP then.
[2008/05/10 10:29] Beathan Vale: TP –doubling rent
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: I have the following people who apparently wish to speak …
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:30] MT Lundquist: those items that the RA likes be taken forward and represented as a bill(s)
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: how does that help beathan it WILL not solve the problem
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: Moon, FR, Prin, BV
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: someppl will just pay the extra they dont care its pennies
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: *sigh* Moon first please?
[2008/05/10 10:30] Beathan Vale: TP — so let them
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: that doesnt solve the problem
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: my comment – or rather a question – is
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: chat lag sorry
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: what is being proposed is an Eminentt domain Bill that is placed in action by the Chamber of Commerce?
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: Eminent Domain*, sorry
[2008/05/10 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no not really
[2008/05/10 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: not at all moon
[2008/05/10 10:31] MT Lundquist: I assume thats a USA law
[2008/05/10 10:31] Beathan Vale: Moon — yes — private organization can strip private property — it’s insane
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: if the Coc can remove land ownership
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: then it’s Eminent Domain
[2008/05/10 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: no on esaid remove we said swap
[2008/05/10 10:32] Moon Adamant: doesn’t that conflict with the functions of any of teh Gov Branches?
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: The proposed bill says “sale”
[2008/05/10 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: swap for the use they are setting out
[2008/05/10 10:32] Beathan Vale: Moon — good point
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: “Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate;”
[2008/05/10 10:32] Beathan Vale: FR — it is a taking and resale —
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: It doesnt say swap
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so how on earth do you solve the problem other than ………..your idea beathan which doesnt solve the problem?
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: FR — that is how emininent domain in the US works — forced sale to govt for market rate
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: someone say how to make ppl follow the covenent?
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: TP — fines —
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: fines work in RL
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we can make our own rules
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the fines here are not a good way to make the matter resolve my friend beathan
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: fines are not enough
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: this is NOT RL
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: and if a person is willing to pay a fine — rather than move to a place where they won’t be fined — let them
[2008/05/10 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: I know beathan, I was pointing out to TP that the bill indeed allows the CoC to forcibly take someone else’s land.
[2008/05/10 10:33] Moon Adamant: so you do want an Eminent Domain?
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: double five dollars its ten bucks who cares
[2008/05/10 10:34] You: hmm – i see no prob with a little freewheeling chat here. Roc, you had something? I guess it’s the ‘swap’ point? I agree with Roc on this, BTW. Confiscation gives me the creeps if the landowner wasn’t clearly warned when they originally purchased.
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont want eminent doman
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to rework that part FR
[2008/05/10 10:34] Moon Adamant: but that’s what it is
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we want teh covenent adhered to
[2008/05/10 10:34] MT Lundquist: clearly warned is the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: so how other than fines do we make that happen.. i have a suggestion if anyone wants to know
[2008/05/10 10:34] Beathan Vale: TP — this bill is emininent domain — saying you want this bill is like saying that you want a four legged domesiticate mamber of Genus Canus — but don’t want a dog
[2008/05/10 10:35] You: Folks, let me ask it this way — if this was sim 4 and the rules were in place before anyone bought a plot, would you THEN have problems with the proposed enforcement?
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so the bill no one wants as is beathan!
[2008/05/10 10:35] Moon Adamant: you can install an escrow system, for example
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie.. how do we enforce the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that moon?
[2008/05/10 10:35] Widget Whiteberry has a question
[2008/05/10 10:35] Moon Adamant: a merchant leaves a sum in deposit with the coc
[2008/05/10 10:36] You: Let’s be polite, or polite-ish, and get Moon’s answer and then take comments from our visitor Widget, hmn?
[2008/05/10 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/05/10 10:36] Moon Adamant: in case of transgression, the fine is levelled out of the escrow
[2008/05/10 10:36] Moon Adamant: and of course, i assume that this is a process which can be appealed to?
[2008/05/10 10:36] MT Lundquist: its worth noting that we already have conferscation rules
[2008/05/10 10:37] MT Lundquist: if citizens dont pay their tier they eventually lose ther land
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: if there are fines they must be VERY steep to reflect the loss to our community when a huge lot on the forum or plat z is empty for months on end
[2008/05/10 10:37] MT Lundquist: Sudane explained that to the commission
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ill go with fines but they must be HUGE.. and then beathan what if they dont pay the fines then what
[2008/05/10 10:37] Flyingroc Chung: Widget, ask away
[2008/05/10 10:37] Widget Whiteberry: As land is a metaphor, how might you define the problem you are trying to resolve or the solution you are trying to reach, without depending on metaphorical (ephemeral) land?
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: eventually we have to take the land
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: good point, take them to the SC
[2008/05/10 10:38] Flyingroc Chung: MT, I think in our history, we have only forcibly taken land from a non-paying citizen once.
[2008/05/10 10:38] Widget Whiteberry: … your asset is your association, your community
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: if they broke rules of CDS we would take them to the SC
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we have FR
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ask sudane, she has taken land, we have a process for that
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: Prin. May Widget finish?
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: its in progress now actually FR
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: Sudane explained
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: process*+
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane was on the commerce commission
[2008/05/10 10:39] Flyingroc Chung: yes, TP, we have done so, but only once.I think this demonstrates we should take this forcible taking of land very seriosly.
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry was widget done
[2008/05/10 10:39] Widget Whiteberry: that’s really all I wanted to ask/comment
[2008/05/10 10:39] You: I am not sure we are managing to look like we welcome public comment, at the moment 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: shes doing this now..
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: yes sudane is
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: takes 3 months
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: approx
[2008/05/10 10:40] You: Are there other new points, for now?
[2008/05/10 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i think we /not me but the commerce commision including all factions was clear
[2008/05/10 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: that we MUST resolve our empty lots in dense commercial places issue
[2008/05/10 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: So tell me, will the CoC also take 3 monhs to confiscate someone’s land? It doesnt seem like this will fix the perceived problem of non-commercial plots
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to solve this problem.. painful and controversial as it is
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: we need solutions
[2008/05/10 10:41] You: I strongly agree, even if we don’t quite yet have a specific set of remedies ironed out perfectly. May I suggest that when MT redrafts, the C of C part also needs to specify which other older bodies if any are replaced & decommissioned?
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well give us some ideas!
[2008/05/10 10:41] MT Lundquist: i can do that yes
[2008/05/10 10:41] You: 🙂 will do
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: hwo can you enforce the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its been on the forum for ages
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: fines? how high?
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: how long
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: go to
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets go to CN forum NOW
[2008/05/10 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: Fines for non-compliance, and incentives for compliance.
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i want you to look
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: what if they dont pay the fines
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: let us go now
[2008/05/10 10:42] Jamie Palisades whispers, good points all, but let’s take THAT to the Forums
[2008/05/10 10:42] Beathan Vale: FR — yes, exactly
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: get up and go
[2008/05/10 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: maybe progresive fines, the longer you are non-compliant the higher the fine.
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: its been on the fricken forum three months jamie
[2008/05/10 10:42] You: Sorry Prin, I got a meeting to finish 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:42] Beathan Vale: and TP -nonpayment of fines would be like nonpayment of tier — e
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we can meet there
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: you need to look at YOUR community and see what its doing o us
[2008/05/10 10:42] Jamie Palisades notes we’re 30 minutes over time
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: when a person tps in to CN and sees empty shops
[2008/05/10 10:43] Beathan Vale: we could get to repossession eventually — but only through a GOVERNMENTAL process – not on the say-so of a private org
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: they leave
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: which brings you back to eventual conferscation of plots
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: for non payment
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree beathan so lets set up this process
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: 🙂 we need a bill – and I LOVE the idea of meeting “on the spot”
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: First thing is redrafting though
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: make the fines VERY HIgh
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: ok i will redraft
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: This is very helpful discussion that will assist MT in redrafting. Have we about exhausted it for now? Noting the time, we’re 30 minutes over, but I regard that as a reasonable productive change. I *would* like your assent to briefly take up item 7, which unlike the others remaining, has some time sensitivity to it.
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the consequences pretty darn swift
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it hurts everyone
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: done.
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: ahem 🙂 any last words for now? And do we want a special informal chat to go over this is more depth, voluntarily?
[2008/05/10 10:44] MT Lundquist: are we deciding about the COC now?
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: Prin, maybe a side meeting of those interested, just to brainstorm?
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: how about a citizen group that votes to the removeal finally .. or soemthing that “feels” not governmental
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a commission jamie!
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: RA meeting formally, as such, just is not the best brainstorming device 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: and btw, widget, while our “land” is really electrons flying around, people feel really possesive about it. So while it’s not really land, it is real property.
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: you are sending it back to d committee
[2008/05/10 10:45] You: but you and MT are asking for more input about remedies now – so NO – but does MT want soem help in his re-draft? Up to him 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:45] MT Lundquist: happy to accept help
[2008/05/10 10:45] You: I hope we’ll have a new bill next week 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:45] MT Lundquist: if you are offering Jamie
[2008/05/10 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: what about the chamber of commerce part
[2008/05/10 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: is that redundant
[2008/05/10 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: I would suggest that this bill makes NL 4-14 obsolete
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: Sure – do we want to have a sitdown drafting session and invite anyone
[2008/05/10 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: it sets rules and things that nobody uses
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: and everyone? Been I while since I seen the Ice Castle 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: should we reinstate that
[2008/05/10 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: instead
[2008/05/10 10:46] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: sigh – can we fiinish up for now? MT will call for help as he sees fit, hm? All volunteers welcome
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what ice castle?
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: 🙂 yours silly
[2008/05/10 10:47] Flyingroc Chung: it’s been in the books for a couple of years, it seems like the rules dont work.
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we have a party at one
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok fr
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: yes ok at the castle at icewater
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: close item for now?
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: i will send an announcement
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: close
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: cool
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: what about the Chamber part
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: COC?
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: part one
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: i’s say, look at that too MT
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: we can’t enact something today unless we know which other similar redudant groups we are closing – er – I think
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: next item,
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: let me ask for permission to take item 7 up out of order, it’s short
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: and time sensitive
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: …?
—-
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: OK. This is my short report to the RA on an SC decision worth our noting.
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: 7
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: URI from them is in our agenda for today
[2008/05/10 10:49] Beathan Vale: did we really expel someon?
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: though they will post a transcript too eventually
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: There was a dispute about a land ejection. It was resolved 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: But it raises two issues for US
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: The first – which I want to note
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: is that the SC took the position that the general CDS laws about land ejection and the like
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: (marshals of the peace and all that)
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: which generally apply in CDS
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need a gard
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: my life was in danger
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: were going to defer, during RA meetings, to our own rules of order.
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i can start bringing a private body gard
[2008/05/10 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i used to bring one
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: So basically – they’re saying, RA, police yourself 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: which I did want us to note.
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: Second item – and my last on this topic.
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: I think we should take seriously that delegation. So I plan to do a little work on confirming land permission issues and the like.
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: Then I plan to bring you an amendment or two that might make RA rules of order more clear about that sort of ting.
[2008/05/10 10:53] Beathan Vale: make it part of the job of the Parliamentarian
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: Could be, yes, BV
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: moral of the story: we need to sharpen up a it 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: I still cant think of anyone who’d want to be parliamentarian
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: fooey: b i t
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: So no action at this time, but I did want all to be focused on that as a moving item
[2008/05/10 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: if i could i woukd
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: and solicit any comments 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: next item?
—-
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: OK, we’re 5 minutes from default adjourn time
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: we skipped 5 and 6
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: I do not think either *requires* action today – but does anyone have a burning item at present on those?
[2008/05/10 10:56] You: I see conflicts of interest as being a big agenda item next week
[2008/05/10 10:57] You: anything else for now on those? No?
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/05/10 10:57] MT Lundquist: no
—-
[2008/05/10 10:57] You: OK then – item 9 – open mike – anyone have random additional comments? 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:57] Flyingroc Chung: conflict of interest will take some time to debate
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont voet for the two terms
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i dont like the two terms i want it for movement from one office to another
[2008/05/10 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant afford two term limits now, our smaller factions
[2008/05/10 10:58] MT Lundquist: i support tps view
[2008/05/10 10:58] Beathan Vale: I don’t mind the two term limits — but I don’t like movement between office restrictions
[2008/05/10 10:58] You: more?
[2008/05/10 10:58] Beathan Vale: there is no reason why we should put the most active members of our community on forced ice
[2008/05/10 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: why beathan ? thats the whole conflict issue ffs
[2008/05/10 10:59] Beathan Vale: seems silly
[2008/05/10 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: the problem is then that they vote here and go there or vic versa, solve that.. i would go for no voting on bills that have any remote link to the former offece
[2008/05/10 10:59] MT Lundquist: the 2 term limits mean we will rapidly run out of candidates
[2008/05/10 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: I think we have this debate int eh agenda next week, so I propose we adjorn 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:00] Beathan Vale: I would rather see people move between offices than forcing them to take a term in the penalty box
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe nt a term off but limiting the actions
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: second FR
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: the no move angle simply prevents a one term move
[2008/05/10 11:00] You: 🙂 see, we will have a good chat next week
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: i guess so
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt wont be here
[2008/05/10 11:00] You: I encourage people to bring drafted text of proposed laws 😀
[2008/05/10 11:00] Beathan Vale: MT — it puts someone on the sideline for a full term — much worse than term limits
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: i would like a 7 day vote on any items please
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: ok beathan then lets just limit the votes related to what they voted on
[2008/05/10 11:01] You: And MT, send along your thoughts via Forums & other RA members please
[2008/05/10 11:01] Widget Whiteberry: Thank you, all, I need to go
[2008/05/10 11:01] MT Lundquist: i’m sure Prin can talk for me
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thnks widget
[2008/05/10 11:01] You: on everything at the meeting, MT, next week, or just on Confliuct of Intertest?
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/10 11:01] MT Lundquist: everything please
[2008/05/10 11:01] Moon Adamant: i must leave now
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Ok, then one more thing 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: so thank you everyone, and the rest of a good saturday evening
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: LOL
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday dear Mooo-ooon
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: Ooh
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you Jamie :))
[2008/05/10 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: happy birthday!
[2008/05/10 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: happy birthday moon
[2008/05/10 11:02] MT Lundquist: HB Moon
[2008/05/10 11:02] Sonja Strom: Happy Birthday Moon!!
[2008/05/10 11:02] Beathan Vale: happy bday
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you all :))
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: very much 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: We’re adjourned 🙂
—-
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: amen that was hard
[2008/05/10 11:03] Moon Adamant: thank you all the reps
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: no election meeting today
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: bleh
[2008/05/10 11:03] Sonja Strom: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!! 😀 😀 😀
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: why beathan?
[2008/05/10 11:03] Moon Adamant waves and says bye to everyone
[2008/05/10 11:03] Sonja Strom: bye
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: I don’t have time
[2008/05/10 11:03] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: if someone else wants to chair today — feel free
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: FR can you ?
[2008/05/10 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: not really
[2008/05/10 11:04] You: BV, I see that as something which basically can take time, until, say, a month or so before the next election starts. Is that the right understanding?
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: yes, but the closer you get electoral reforms enacted to actual elections, there will be cries of
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: trying to conolidate power
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: or whatnot
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree
[2008/05/10 11:05] Jamie Palisades intones: surely not
[2008/05/10 11:05] Beathan Vale: I am trying to put things together — we have reached fairly few points of consensus — and on minor items like using a 0-based count for the borda county
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs to be a priorirty
[2008/05/10 11:05] You: heh
[2008/05/10 11:05] Sonja Strom: Yes, I’m sure that’s true — and maybe true?
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: elections are sooner than you think
[2008/05/10 11:05] MT Lundquist: july
[2008/05/10 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: new citizens have to be in place 30 days before the polls open
[2008/05/10 11:06] Sonja Strom: Are other people getting SL to load ok? For me a lot of stuff is not rezzing.
[2008/05/10 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sonja
[2008/05/10 11:06] Flyingroc Chung: mine is fine

[end]

Permalink.

RA meeting: May 24, 2008

Agenda

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

2. Commerce Commission recommendations (40 mins.: 09h15 – 09h55)
3. Conflicts of Interest, etc. (25 mins.: 09h55 – 10h20)
Review of open proposals & next steps
— Citizen bill from PMR Walpole: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— Jamie’s proposal: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836
— Beathan’s Term Limits redraft: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1827
— Additional proposals re: oath of office
— Additional proposals re: recusals
4. Sim Planning & Private Development Proposal implementation (25 mins.: 10h20 – 10h45)
— PDP: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10980
— General Master Plan: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1871
— Viewing & discussion of General Master Plans underway
{May adjourn location to NFS School site]

NEW ITEMS

5. Other?
6. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00

Summary

24 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1884
===
[09:10] Pre-meeting chat regarding setting dates for next regular RA election.
[09:15] Meeting called to order.
[09:16] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:17] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified. (Not raised.)
— More on election timing
[09:21] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:23] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:24] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
— Chancellor’s report planned for 7 June [09:25] — Treasurer’s budget session planned for 31 May or 7 June [09:21] — SC nominee confirmation planned for 31 May [09:29] [09:36] 1f – Consent agenda. No items.
[09:36] 2 – Commerce Commission. (discussion only)
— More legislative drafting expected, nothing at this time.
[09:43] 3 – Conflicts of Interest
— Review of open legislative proposals.
— Discussion regarding related Election Commission issues [09:51] — Motion to commit the listed draft bills to an Conflicts and Ethics commission made [09:54] and seconded [09:54]. Refinements noted as informal amendments — all citizens may participate, meetings transcripts posted, Gwyneth Llewelyn to chair. Motion to amend to set deadline of 3 weeks before next election (14 June), at which point RA may act independently of commission report, made [10:02] and also accepted informally. Motion adopted as amended 4-1-0 [10:06].
[10:08] 4. Sim and Master Planning
— Discussion of adequacy and operation of PDP bill to launch Sim4 [10:08] — Guild report & discussion of General Master Plan and proposed bill [10:17] — Guild report & discussion of CDS Sim4 plans [10:36] —- Note on Altenstadt’s planning [10:41] —- Note on effects of & power to change legacy structures [10:43] [11:00] 5. Open microphone
— Upcoming CDS auction event
[11:07] Adjourned.

Transcript

====
Transcript of 24 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/05/24 9:01] You: Permit me to take a moment and send some IMs.
[2008/05/24 9:01] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie. I want to officially ask the RA when the election will be
[2008/05/24 9:01] Danton Sideways: Any way to fit that in near the beginning?
[2008/05/24 9:01] You: Danton, pardon just a sec – in IMs (see above in chat)
[2008/05/24 9:02] Danton Sideways: I saw but was trying to forestall 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:02] Moon Adamant: hi guys
[2008/05/24 9:02] Moon Adamant: has somebody turned on lag mode? 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:02] Danton Sideways: Hi Moon
[2008/05/24 9:02] Danton Sideways: Jamies in IM
[2008/05/24 9:02] Moon Adamant: hi Danton
[2008/05/24 9:03] Moon Adamant: sure, np 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: And your balloon says Busy
[2008/05/24 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello fellow citizens 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry I’m late.
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: Hi Gwyn
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: lol
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: 3 minutes
[2008/05/24 9:04] MT Lundquist: hi all
[2008/05/24 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe at least I’m not TOO late…. unless SL is lagging more than I thought, I see that I’m not the last one to arrive!
[2008/05/24 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello, MT :))
[2008/05/24 9:04] Danton Sideways: Hi MT
[2008/05/24 9:04] Moon Adamant: hello MT
[2008/05/24 9:04] You: Alright 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:04] Danton Sideways: If the lag keeps up I’ll switch to Ajaxlife
[2008/05/24 9:05] You: Sorry, I was sending an IM ping to RA members not present.
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe thanks, Jamie!
[2008/05/24 9:05] You: Poor girl, did she leave AjaxLife UP? I thought the server might have falled into disuse.
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ping them without remorse!
[2008/05/24 9:05] You: Gwyn, you remember her?
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no, Jamie, it’s still up,
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and she’s been updating it too.
[2008/05/24 9:05] Danton Sideways: It’s great for my Asus eee
[2008/05/24 9:05] MT Lundquist: brb
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s getting better and better all the time!
[2008/05/24 9:06] You: Oh, cool, I thought she went dormant for a while, shrug. Student I think.
[2008/05/24 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: High school student, yes
[2008/05/24 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15 or 16 years old 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the server is her PC at home I believe 😉
[2008/05/24 9:07] Danton Sideways: Hi ThePrincess
[2008/05/24 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: hello sir danton
[2008/05/24 9:07] Jamie Palisades grins – the seeds of us old people becoming superfluous, Gwynnie
[2008/05/24 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: always interesteing to see you
[2008/05/24 9:07] Danton Sideways: Sir?
[2008/05/24 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/05/24 9:07] Moon Adamant: hello Princess.
[2008/05/24 9:08] Danton Sideways: I’ve been knighted or something?
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: hello moon
[2008/05/24 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Princess
[2008/05/24 9:08] You: Now – Sonja’s sent regrets, so we’re missing FR and BV. And Danton – informally- had asked e to rais a quick queston about the next election.
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: dont knock it
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: fr just logged in
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi grunts at moon
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: and gwyen
[2008/05/24 9:08] Danton Sideways: FR was up late working on HIS Asus eee
[2008/05/24 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/24 9:08] Moon Adamant: already?
[2008/05/24 9:08] You: which we can as easily handle before comiong to order I think, anyway. SO do you mind if we have that 6- second chat now, anyone?
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyenth and i arent speaking
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Roc’s always up late 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We aren’t?
[2008/05/24 9:09] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: I want my question in the record
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: what question ?
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure… mmh with FR here, we’ll have a nice quorum
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Well I have four of 7, so we are quorate as far as that goes.
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: When is the next election?
[2008/05/24 9:09] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts RA members
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: Exact date?
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: in july dandont
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Ah, 5.
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: Hi FR
[2008/05/24 9:09] Jamie Palisades grins.
[2008/05/24 9:09] Flyingroc Chung: I see you’re already talking about me
[2008/05/24 9:09] Moon Adamant: hi hi Danton 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, FR 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the constitution, july
[2008/05/24 9:09] Moon Adamant: FR* sorry
[2008/05/24 9:09] Flyingroc Chung: lol
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Danton, would you just blurt out your question before we get started – I think it’s a quick one easily addressed
[2008/05/24 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i answered him
[2008/05/24 9:10] You: ha ha Gwyn’s ahead of me
[2008/05/24 9:10] Danton Sideways: Already done, LRA
[2008/05/24 9:10] You: and {rion – and everyone 😀 as usual
[2008/05/24 9:10] Danton Sideways: I want to know the exact date the elections open
[2008/05/24 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Rose 🙂 )
[2008/05/24 9:10] Rose Springvale: 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:10] You: OK then let’s call to order please
[2008/05/24 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: ok lets look it up
[2008/05/24 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: wait .. its impportant
[2008/05/24 9:10] Rose Springvale: (thought i was invisible :))
[2008/05/24 9:11] You: Oh? Election? Sure.
[2008/05/24 9:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and then there is a date one has to be acitizen before the election
[2008/05/24 9:11] Flyingroc Chung: it’s not exact, the constttion provides a range of days, I think
[2008/05/24 9:11] You: Rose, it;s probably the cuimulative effects of my deprecating pregamne badinage 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:11] Rose Springvale: ummm
[2008/05/24 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (you look like a cloudie to me, dear Rose 😉 )
[2008/05/24 9:11] Danton Sideways: Hi Rose!
[2008/05/24 9:11] ThePrincess Parisi: its not going to be held til we have a new sim on the market a few weeks before they have to be citizens… unless the guild gets their way.. per the controlling faction of the guild cdsf
[2008/05/24 9:11] Rose Springvale: sounds like a personal problem JP 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:12] You: hah
[2008/05/24 9:12] Moon Adamant: i beg your pardon?
[2008/05/24 9:12] You: See – this is why 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i wasnt talking to you moon
[2008/05/24 9:12] You: OK. Danton:
[2008/05/24 9:12] Moon Adamant: ah, you were talking to the universe, ok
[2008/05/24 9:13] Danton Sideways: I would like it go on record when the first day of elections will be
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no i was talking to a person who asked me a question missy moon
[2008/05/24 9:13] You: you’re not going to get constitutional ruloings here , we have an SC for that – but I thikn the cite to the constitution is indeed correct.
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: well perhaps danton you should propose a bill
[2008/05/24 9:13] You: No intent to be difficult, but we just are not the body that decided election matters.
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: has csdf sent you
[2008/05/24 9:13] Danton Sideways: I request the RA to provide that information
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: that may be a variable date hon…. wirte a bill
[2008/05/24 9:14] Danton Sideways: so I can know about forming a new party
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we will when we have the date of the next sim
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: go ahead and form a faction is my advice
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: dont dilly dally
[2008/05/24 9:14] You: @danton – please do ask the SC, it is their job and we can’t gainsay them. @Prin : Yes, and CSDF are bebind global warming too. Can we move on?
[2008/05/24 9:14] Danton Sideways: No Jamie
[2008/05/24 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Jamie, it’s a fact that it’s the RA that sets the election dates.
[2008/05/24 9:14] Danton Sideways: I have no contact with the SC
[2008/05/24 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC just “Oversees”
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we arent ready to do it ok
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so shhhhhh
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: I formally request that the RA provide that info as soon as possible
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: *info
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: tell the guild to get the sim and we will do that
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: you cannot formally request us sir
[2008/05/24 9:15] You: ah hah – see I thought we were stuck with the SC’s constraints! Thanks Gwyn
[2008/05/24 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait wait wait wait wait wait…
[2008/05/24 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we arent formally requested
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: I can once the meeting starts
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: write a bill danton
[2008/05/24 9:15] You: Well, Danton, in light of that I suggest that the RA take that up and formally set them at its next meeting.
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: no you cant
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: you caant just formally request we do what you say
[2008/05/24 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is, indeed, the RA that sets the date, and why shouldn’t a citizen request that the RA announces the date well in advance?
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: as a citizen
—-
[2008/05/24 9:15] You: Hush all, please, let’s do this formally 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: I call the meeting to order. AHEM. 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: Agenda as proposed is posted at /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1872
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: Welcome all.
—
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: 1aq
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: Would all present please assent to being recorded? I so assent.
[2008/05/24 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/24 9:16] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: 1a that was (oops)
[2008/05/24 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with getting recorded.
[2008/05/24 9:17] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/05/24 9:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
—-
[2008/05/24 9:17] You: 1b
[2008/05/24 9:17] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/05/24 9:17] You: agenda
[2008/05/24 9:17] Flyingroc Chung: “New RAs shall take office on 1 February and 1 August. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new RAs taking office.”
[2008/05/24 9:17] Danton Sideways: Thank you FR
[2008/05/24 9:17] You: any changes? I know of one – MT needs another week on the Commerce Commission redraft
[2008/05/24 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi sticks out her tongue at gwyen
[2008/05/24 9:17] Flyingroc Chung: I assent, and I stand corrected, the constitution *does* specify an exact date
[2008/05/24 9:18] You: Hold that thought please Roc 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i knew it did
[2008/05/24 9:18] MT Lundquist: ty jamie
[2008/05/24 9:18] You: I suggest we delete item 2 (at MT’s reqyest) and insert instead a 10 minute chat to sort out the election date business. Reactions?
[2008/05/24 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/05/24 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: NO
[2008/05/24 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, no.
[2008/05/24 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: cos its says already in the constitution
[2008/05/24 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wait, my “no” was for not scratching item 2
[2008/05/24 9:19] You: 🙂 well I assume it’s OK to delete 2, and the only hesitance is about taking on the election dates, grin — in which case Danton can wait until “open mike” at the end I guess
[2008/05/24 9:19] Danton Sideways: The article FR cited is on record that’s fine with me
[2008/05/24 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: great danton
[2008/05/24 9:19] Danton Sideways: If there is no discussion that means you stick to it
[2008/05/24 9:19] You: any objection to deleting item 2, or other additions to the agenda?
[2008/05/24 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: so when we dont get a sim in time we will have to amend the constitution
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and the number of votes that takes.. lets see.. CSDF has ONE vote
[2008/05/24 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do object, yes. Why exactly are we dropping item 2?
[2008/05/24 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: what does getting a new sim have to do with a constitutional amendment?
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and DPU has two votes
[2008/05/24 9:20] You: c’mon people 🙂 I think we WILL need to talk about this – but under item 6 open mic is fine
[2008/05/24 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (FR, holistic relationships)
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and SP has two votes
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and nucare has two votes
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we are fine
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: goon
[2008/05/24 9:20] You: last call, grin? No agenda changes? looking around …
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/24 9:20] You: kk
—-
[2008/05/24 9:21] You: 1c
[2008/05/24 9:21] Moon Adamant: The New Guild has news
[2008/05/24 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to know what happened to item 2: why it was dropped; if it’ll be addressed under point 6; never to be addressed again; what?
[2008/05/24 9:21] You: Anyone here who is not an RA member who especially wants to speak to today’s agenda?
[2008/05/24 9:21] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/24 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn *pouts*
[2008/05/24 9:21] You: Gwyn I suggest we briefly discuss the future plans for item 2 after item 1’s done … since no one objected to its removal 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I did, Mr LRA
[2008/05/24 9:22] You: Moon – yes – Guild comments planned for today, right?
[2008/05/24 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But sure, let’s finish 1 first…
[2008/05/24 9:22] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/05/24 9:23] You: Under hm – item 4. OK 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:23] Moon Adamant: ok, just tell me when it’s my turn to speak
[2008/05/24 9:23] You: (Ah yes – I see it now, and apologize. MT can repeat his comment about legislative drafting when we get there. Thanks Gwyneth.)
—-
[2008/05/24 9:23] You: 1d
[2008/05/24 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: Routine notice – please read the posted transcript, let us know if anythings’s wrong 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: 1e
[2008/05/24 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: We are using this regular time slot
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: but
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: noting some upcoming events:
—-
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: [1.] Alexicon has agreed to do Chancellor’s report at last meeting each month.
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, great!
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: He has a conflict next week and asked to move it to next meeting after
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn sharpens her knives.
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: Hm – so – 7 June.
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: Just a headsup 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: [2.] Sudane.
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA prepare a few questions in advance for the Chancellor?
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly have quite a few hehe
[2008/05/24 9:26] You: Gwyn – feel free (grin) – if you post them in advance it certainly gives him more time
[2008/05/24 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. I will!
[2008/05/24 9:26] You: I suggest that applies to all RA members
[2008/05/24 9:26] You: Although if we get a torrent we may have to pick and choose 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: or devote 2 hours to it – which might not be the worst outcome either
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: grin “2”
[2008/05/24 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: Sudane has graciously agreed to come give us a run-down on the budget process
[2008/05/24 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: the term’s almost over..lol
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: Overdue to my ears – no critique of her 🙂 I think the RA has been lax in paying attention to that whole area
[2008/05/24 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
[2008/05/24 9:28] You: so we will do that on the 31st or 7th, schedules depending
[2008/05/24 9:28] You: A thought, Gwyn?
[2008/05/24 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: we were rudely interupted by a faction playing games jamie
[2008/05/24 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no. I’m fully supportive of having that review done at the RA.
[2008/05/24 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: and being compuletely full of misconduct that damaged our whole society
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: I seem to get a LOT of rude interruptions, Prin, richly distributed among several warring factions, grin, shrug
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: ahem
[2008/05/24 9:29] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: well gwyen said.
—-
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: [3d] and last item on agenda
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: we need to confirm two SC nominees
[2008/05/24 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay :))
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: our regular hour (9-11 Sat SLT) is not good for that
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: so I suggest we meet late one week to get it over with –
[2008/05/24 9:30] You: and with apologies to MT, I;m going t ask if e can do 10-12 next week
[2008/05/24 9:30] You: (in other words, move the mtg by one hours later)
[2008/05/24 9:30] Flyingroc Chung: 10-12 on saturday?
[2008/05/24 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might to have to leave by 11:30, but fine.
[2008/05/24 9:30] MT Lundquist: thats ok with me
[2008/05/24 9:30] You: for one week, yes, to allow Dnate & Cindy to come here – as we agreed it’s a good hing to chat with them when we vote
[2008/05/24 9:31] You: *good thing (heh)
[2008/05/24 9:31] Flyingroc Chung: I can do that
[2008/05/24 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/05/24 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I just ask then that we put that item close to the top of the agenda, please.
[2008/05/24 9:31] Jamie Palisades looks around, hears no howls of schedule-related protest
[2008/05/24 9:31] You: well, that’s the problem Gwyn – we can’t get one or both of them until 11 SLT the earliest
[2008/05/24 9:32] You: hm – Prin?
[2008/05/24 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh I see. Ok.
[2008/05/24 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: how many votes are needed to approve the SC members
[2008/05/24 9:32] You: Haven’t looked. Majority I assume.
[2008/05/24 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simple majority.
[2008/05/24 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/05/24 9:33] You: We know you’ve decalred war on, or at least opposition to, one of them Prin – so it’s good fpr us to fix a date, and everyone can see it coming and do, I suppose, their politicing.
[2008/05/24 9:33] You: sorry – typos worse than usual today – which for me is saying something. Lag seems *immense*
[2008/05/24 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: excuse me? i have not delared war, she was simply removed from our faction
[2008/05/24 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: for misconduct
[2008/05/24 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: by the entire leadership not just me
[2008/05/24 9:34] Moon Adamant: wasn’t that to be voted yet?
[2008/05/24 9:34] Flyingroc Chung: “The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution.”
[2008/05/24 9:34] You: 🙂 sorry I though I read on the boards that you opposed her SC candidacy. OI apologize if I was mstaken, and withdraw the comment.
[2008/05/24 9:34] You: Moon –
[2008/05/24 9:34] Flyingroc Chung: It’s a “vote of confidence, I dont even know if it’s binding, given the SC is “self-selected”
[2008/05/24 9:34] You: we decided when the SC refers to us, that we could have the nominees is for a chat before voting.
[2008/05/24 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, interesting twist… but yes, the vote of confidence is a confirmation by the RA that a certain member of the SC is acceptable (checks and balances!)
[2008/05/24 9:35] You: 🙂 and if the SC wants to take the position that the provision about the RA consent is meaningless, well, I welcome that amusing constituional squabble – but see it as not simple, and not inconsequential
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: now
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: let’s get over with the prelims hm?
—-
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: 1f
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: Consent agenda
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: I have nothing. Anyone?
[2008/05/24 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/24 9:36] Jamie Palisades looks
[2008/05/24 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: it’s too early for me to have anything
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: OK then. 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: 2
[2008/05/24 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: Gwyn objected to our removal of this agenda item so let’s deal with it, even if it is brief.
[2008/05/24 9:37] MT Lundquist: do you want me to cover the recommendations again
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: hm
[2008/05/24 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, if you wish, for the record, MT…
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: unm
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: ahem
[2008/05/24 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or else, we can just put the link to the forum thread here
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: I prefer the latter 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:38] MT Lundquist: thats fine
[2008/05/24 9:38] MT Lundquist: i will need to go find it
[2008/05/24 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: we did that last week when you werent here
[2008/05/24 9:38] You: and we had chat in two of the last RA transscipts at length
[2008/05/24 9:38] MT Lundquist: ok so no need then
[2008/05/24 9:38] Jamie Palisades notes < < insert CC Forum thread URI here for transcript >> /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/05/24 9:38] You: so
[2008/05/24 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: the thing that is in question is the part oabout making sure that ppl adhear to the conventn
[2008/05/24 9:38] You: MT agreed to re-write it for us after our last meeting on 10 May
[2008/05/24 9:39] You: and he is doing so, yes?
[2008/05/24 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and any comments gwyn has about that or how to do that .. speak up
[2008/05/24 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good, have we that in writing? (I mean the amended text)
[2008/05/24 9:39] MT Lundquist: not yet thats why its deferred
[2008/05/24 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
[2008/05/24 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You guys don’t explain lol
[2008/05/24 9:39] You: not yet, though we do have several RA members who agreed at the last meeting on record to help him (grin)
[2008/05/24 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do when we have ppl who buy commerical land and they dont use it as such and we have a shopping area void of shops?? what should we do ?
[2008/05/24 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: thats the question on teh table
[2008/05/24 9:39] You: Perhaps (jamie eyes the chat log of this meeting)
[2008/05/24 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I withdraw my objection to remove item 2 from the agenda.
[2008/05/24 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: so basically when the covenent is not being adhered to
[2008/05/24 9:40] You: MT
[2008/05/24 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there is no amended text to discuss, it’s worthless to discuss the unamended text
[2008/05/24 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but its nto worthless for you to state what you think about land and commerical use
[2008/05/24 9:40] MT Lundquist: hence postponing the item lol
[2008/05/24 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: can someone ask her ?
[2008/05/24 9:40] You: Prin’s line of chat is a very good one – any possibility that some of us should have a sit-down to kick tha around during his next week? Would that be helpful to your drafting, or not?
[2008/05/24 9:41] You: sit-down .. sigh
[2008/05/24 9:41] MT Lundquist: yes it would
[2008/05/24 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: yes.. we need to know what the person over there thinks i guess
[2008/05/24 9:41] You: OK – can i leave it to you to propose & schedule?
[2008/05/24 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’ve posted what I think of it, Princess
[2008/05/24 9:41] MT Lundquist: its at the heart of part two or Pat’s CDSF bill to look at the commerce in CDS
[2008/05/24 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: oh well i dont read your verbosity
[2008/05/24 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: can you say it here
[2008/05/24 9:41] MT Lundquist: that question was asked in the bill
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: Needless to say it is my expectation that any citizen would be welcome at such a meeting, and treated civilly.
[2008/05/24 9:42] MT Lundquist: so I’m interested in Gwyns and csdfs view
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: No Prin she can’t today 🙂 It’s not on the agenda
[2008/05/24 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&p=10926&hilit=+commerce#p10879
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: So I suggest MT invite her and others as noted above 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: And I will be happy to attend if schedule permits
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: we done with this item?
[2008/05/24 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/24 9:42] MT Lundquist: seems so
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: cool
[2008/05/24 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure…
—-
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: 3 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: conflicts of interest
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: please let me have a minute or two to put on the table what ll we hav going on
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: there’s a lot 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: [1.] [2008/05/24 9:44] You: we have PMr walpole’s citizen bill. See that transcript of RA.
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: It had two parts
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: we havn;t take them u as suh – but any RA member can make a motion. However …
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: [2.] [2008/05/24 9:45] You: We have one piece that really was “taken up” as a redraft
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: Beathan’s ‘term limits’ bill
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1827
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: also awaiting a motion, if someone cares to – but I thought Beathan was going to carry that one, FWIW
[2008/05/24 9:46] You: [3.] [2008/05/24 9:46] You: We have Patroklus’ recently reminded-to-us thread of voluntary disclosures of personal interests
[2008/05/24 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: Not a bill, but worth noting in passing – honestly I am not entirely sure what its effect as but see it as generally virtuous, unless we sharpen up requirements in law somewhere
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: [4.] [2008/05/24 9:47] You: related
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: we have my bill putting some teeth in disclosure
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836
[2008/05/24 9:48] You: I got some commens on that and need t revise t take the into account.
[2008/05/24 9:48] You: The easy part seems to be disclosure, by the way
[2008/05/24 9:48] You: the hard part seems to be agreement on when role overlaps are – and are not – acceptable in CDS
[2008/05/24 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* again
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: aaaand . let’s see
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: [5.] [2008/05/24 9:49] You: oath of office
[2008/05/24 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: Gwyn you made a suggestion during the most recent debates about that
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: so that’s a drafting job too, at least
[2008/05/24 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and will talk a bit about that if there is time and opportunity
[2008/05/24 9:50] You: OK …
[2008/05/24 9:50] You: now before we jump in, let me ask – does anyone know of any other loose threads? or have I correctly collected the current known pieces of change proposals?
[2008/05/24 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: election reform
[2008/05/24 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: I havent been following the forums
[2008/05/24 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: that closely
[2008/05/24 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe so, although, to be honest, next week the CSDF will submit a bill for voting which will address overlapping issues
[2008/05/24 9:51] You: Good point Prin, – but Election Reform is on a separate track, with a commission tht has not yet reported out, right?
[2008/05/24 9:52] MT Lundquist: another bill to add to these
[2008/05/24 9:52] MT Lundquist: can’t we bring all this together
[2008/05/24 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This basically just means that I’ll push for a partial approval of either Jamie’s or Beathan’s suggestion, and leave the rest for a better structured document for next week 😉
[2008/05/24 9:52] You: HM – Gwyn if that bill touches election reform, personally I;d like to get the bloody commissions’s report too before we act
[2008/05/24 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes on the election committee’s work)
[2008/05/24 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no
[2008/05/24 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just â€” oath of office; code of conduct; listing conflicts
[2008/05/24 9:53] You: sounds like we all are agreeing in essence
[2008/05/24 9:53] MT Lundquist: so the same stuff as these bills
[2008/05/24 9:53] You: um except for wondering when the Election Reform Commission UFO will land
[2008/05/24 9:53] MT Lundquist: why cant we just have a commission look at it all and have one propsal
[2008/05/24 9:53] You: hmmm
[2008/05/24 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Half of it, yes â€” the otehr half is term limits
[2008/05/24 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with MT’s suggestion…
[2008/05/24 9:54] MT Lundquist: ok i propse it
[2008/05/24 9:54] MT Lundquist: propose*
[2008/05/24 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, I’ll second the proposal!
[2008/05/24 9:54] You: so – um – a second UFO is launched in the same direction as the Election Commission one?
[2008/05/24 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh well
[2008/05/24 9:55] You: when does the first UFO land? Amd what is the difference between the scopes of the two?
[2008/05/24 9:55] MT Lundquist: maybe they can be combined
[2008/05/24 9:55] Jamie Palisades notes a motion and second 🙂 …
[2008/05/24 9:55] You: … But not a commission description
[2008/05/24 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I won’t make comments on the results of the Election Commission, of course, but in this case, we can work from a more structured document instead of doing a “tabula rasa”
[2008/05/24 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Comission for Ethical Conduct and Conflict of Interests?
[2008/05/24 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the Ethical Committee 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or hmm â€” the Lobby Commission?
[2008/05/24 9:56] You: sigh
[2008/05/24 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor LRA 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:57] You: OK, MT or Gwyn, it is your motion – What do you propose is the scope of this new commssion, please? Simply that it take all the bills I listed above, and report out?
[2008/05/24 9:57] MT Lundquist: yes and whatever CSDF intend to propose
[2008/05/24 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Summarise the existing proposals in a single one; 2) Tie them into the Oath of Office; 3) Establish a Code of Conduct; 4) Declaration of Conflict of Interests
[2008/05/24 9:58] You: Personally I just don’t see that it adds anything – but it you find it usecul, so be it. Who wishes to chair this makework thing? Sigh
[2008/05/24 9:58] Flyingroc Chung: I suppose it would work to say which one, or combination would be the recommended way to go
[2008/05/24 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if done right (and I did some homework lol ) you can fit this in a tidy, neat document 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:59] Jamie Palisades is deeply skeptical of commisions in view of their mixed record, in case that isn’t painfully obvious
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, what do you suggest instead?
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m more than willing to chair it… if MT doesn’t oppose
[2008/05/24 9:59] MT Lundquist: i’m only a week late on mine lol
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, indeed!
[2008/05/24 10:00] You: Maybe you’re the exception MT 🙂 Ask Bromo. A few clarifications then. 2 actually. First, is membership of this thing open to all comers ?
[2008/05/24 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Commissions are generally open to all citizens…
[2008/05/24 10:00] MT Lundquist: i would suggest all yes
[2008/05/24 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I second that as well…
[2008/05/24 10:01] You: and are their proceedings transcripted, so that a chair can later establish the veracity of their report of consensus?
[2008/05/24 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, definitely, I agree with that.
[2008/05/24 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn points at the bill for committees
[2008/05/24 10:01] You: OK, thanks for that. Then I propose an amednment.
[2008/05/24 10:02] You: I move to amend this to indicate tht the RA will nt act on that referred field of topics until 3 weeks before the next election – and that at that time the Commission should report out, or otherwise the RA is fee to adopt other bills.
[2008/05/24 10:02] You: *free
[2008/05/24 10:03] You: in other words, put up or shut up, in time for us to get things done for the next election 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems reasonable, I can vote “aye” on that 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:03] MT Lundquist: me too
[2008/05/24 10:04] Flyingroc Chung: yay deadlines
[2008/05/24 10:04] You: Shall I take that as an accepted change then? OK – are we also agreed to accept Gwyn’s kind offer to chair? If so I think we have a complete motion to pass
[2008/05/24 10:04] You: (We have scope, delivery date, procedures, chair)
[2008/05/24 10:04] MT Lundquist: ok with me
[2008/05/24 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no objections here)
[2008/05/24 10:05] You: Are you ready to vote?
[2008/05/24 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* affirmatively
[2008/05/24 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/05/24 10:05] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/24 10:05] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/24 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye as well.
[2008/05/24 10:05] Jamie Palisades looks at Roc
[2008/05/24 10:05] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/24 10:06] You: Motion passed 4-1-0.
[2008/05/24 10:06] You: Thanks all. I had hoped we could get this bundle of issues moving 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: is it safe to relog, I think my SL is gonna crash son
[2008/05/24 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: soon
[2008/05/24 10:07] You: And I caution you that 3 weeks before the next election is not a long ways off 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:07] Rose Springvale: june 14 i think
[2008/05/24 10:07] You: yes – Planning next, Roc, and it will take some discussion
[2008/05/24 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe as said, I’ll be happy to present a structured document to the commission and gather input on it
[2008/05/24 10:07] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: OK kids, next and last big item is planning
—-
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: 4

[2008/05/24 10:08] You: You will recall that we PASSED the PDP
< < See text at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10841 >>
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: so any day now …
[2008/05/24 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:09] Moon Adamant: wb FR 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:09] Flyingroc Chung: thanks
[2008/05/24 10:09] You: sim proposals might be lurching our way …
[2008/05/24 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: oh we hope so !
[2008/05/24 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, indeed!
[2008/05/24 10:09] Moon Adamant: i would like to ask how is the contractual part to be solved?
[2008/05/24 10:09] You: .. slouching towards Bethlehem like some great Beast waiting to be rezzed 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hrrmpf
[2008/05/24 10:10] Moon Adamant: i mean, the PDP will demand solid contracts, etc
[2008/05/24 10:10] You: haha
[2008/05/24 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly.
[2008/05/24 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even “contracts” (solid or not)
[2008/05/24 10:11] You: Does anyone here wish to express a view on whethe the PDP bill adequately instructs the treasurer, chancellor and RA in that regard? 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, these are signed by the Chancellor 😉
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes. Mr. LRA
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill establishes responsibilities,
[2008/05/24 10:12] You: I know of no current legislative proposals to sharpen that up …
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and deadlines
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and checks and balances, so…
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/05/24 10:12] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if anything is still in doubt, well, we have established procedures to deal with those too
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally, I have no problems with the PDP bill…
[2008/05/24 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We know whom to blame 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:13] Jamie Palisades nods again: That’s my point. We have rules now, unless someone wants to change the, Moon – do you see a missing piece somewhere?
[2008/05/24 10:14] You: (Yes, Gwyn, blame the RA. ALL of us. We enacted it.)
[2008/05/24 10:14] Moon Adamant: well, i think there should be template contracts
[2008/05/24 10:14] Moon Adamant: to complete the procedures
[2008/05/24 10:14] You: Hm. Which is um the job of the Chancellor, now, yes?
[2008/05/24 10:14] Moon Adamant: that way, both the CDS as the private developers know where they stand
[2008/05/24 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, to address Moon’s concerns… it’s the Chancellor that will sign the contract… the broad guidelines for it are established in the bill… so the Chancellor has to get a contract that supports those things in the bill, “or else”
[2008/05/24 10:15] Moon Adamant: i am not sure who should write those templates
[2008/05/24 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor decides!
[2008/05/24 10:15] You: Yup 🙂 Have fun 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as the templates/contracts don’t violate the terms on the PDP bill, the Chancellor has a free hand.
[2008/05/24 10:15] Jamie Palisades waves jauntily from his post in a different branch of government
[2008/05/24 10:16] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/24 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and smiles @ Jamie
[2008/05/24 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA did its job well 🙂 … it’s one of the best-written bills in the CDS history
[2008/05/24 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now well, the “executive” aspects of it are for the Executive to figure out 😉
[2008/05/24 10:17] You: You inspire m e to more questions at our next visit with the executive branch 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:17] Moon Adamant: has Princess left?
[2008/05/24 10:17] You: moving on 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I believe she did.
[2008/05/24 10:17] MT Lundquist: she will be back
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
—-
[2008/05/24 10:17] You: Let’s talk about the general master plan a bit.
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant: surely
[2008/05/24 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we listen to the New Guild’s report?
[2008/05/24 10:18] You: It is the context into which all sims must fit
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/05/24 10:18] You: 🙂 Exactly. Moon, ready to go?
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant: the GMP, or General Master Plan
[2008/05/24 10:19] Moon Adamant: is based on a concept of clusters
[2008/05/24 10:19] Moon Adamant: clusters are unform in theme
[2008/05/24 10:19] Moon Adamant: and tehy are connected through speciall connective sims, which will be developed by the Guild
[2008/05/24 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry had to sell land to a nucare member
[2008/05/24 10:20] Moon Adamant: besides the concept of Clusters
[2008/05/24 10:20] Moon Adamant: the GMP also defines concepts such as Topography, Density, etc
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: these can be better seen and understood at the exhibit we are preparing
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: to open today, max tomorrow (still lacking some data)
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: in all our sims
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: at the same time
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: the GMP is not only a geographical /terriotrial document
[2008/05/24 10:22] Moon Adamant: we are also preparing a survey on citizens’ expectations and visions for the CDS
[2008/05/24 10:22] Moon Adamant: this exhibit and survey are public consultation and will last for 15 days
[2008/05/24 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/05/24 10:23] Moon Adamant: we are coor’ding with PIO also that the most citizens as possible can be informed, can consult the masterplan and participate in the survey
[2008/05/24 10:23] MT Lundquist: wow
[2008/05/24 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: for the second time today
[2008/05/24 10:23] Moon Adamant: done about GMP
[2008/05/24 10:23] You: wb Prin let’s let Moon finish then take Qs
[2008/05/24 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/24 10:24] Moon Adamant: er… i have some stuff too about 4th sim… later?
[2008/05/24 10:24] Moon Adamant: and altenstadt
[2008/05/24 10:25] You: hm – yes – let’s do general plan first. Good point.
[2008/05/24 10:25] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/05/24 10:25] You: Let’s take questions – and – note that the agenda includes a pointer to a draft bill that wouls make some of ths “general plan” stuff into law.
[2008/05/24 10:25] You: Prin, you had a Q?
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: ok … well i just wanted to say/ ask that the GMP is great, but there is also a notion that we can have a sim totally unconnected to the major CDS sims that is perfectly unrealted in any way
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: unrelated
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: like a merry go round sim
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: or what ever
[2008/05/24 10:26] Moon Adamant: that is part of the PDP
[2008/05/24 10:27] Moon Adamant: but the idea is that new themes will develop new clusters
[2008/05/24 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. so it wont eliminate any ideas
[2008/05/24 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Whenever a citizen or developer wishes to build or modify land in the CDS, the citizen or developer shall submit a design to the Chancellor for approval. The Chancellor shall assess the plan in light of the regional plan for the CDS and shall approve, deny or request modifications to the developer’s plan in a manner consistent with the regional plan.”
[2008/05/24 10:27] You: hm – but would require approval; all the same, right?
[2008/05/24 10:27] Moon Adamant: no, we never eleiminate ideas, see?
[2008/05/24 10:27] Moon Adamant: what happens is that we can say: that is a new cluster
[2008/05/24 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: never but you dont let citizens even speak is what i hear, but thats another story
[2008/05/24 10:28] Moon Adamant: take teh example of Nea Chora
[2008/05/24 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: they are leaving CDS those ones
[2008/05/24 10:28] Moon Adamant: indeed?
[2008/05/24 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, another good reason to have this “exhibition” of the GMP in public,
[2008/05/24 10:28] You: This is gettinga bit sidetracked. I’d like to discuss Guild rules as its own item, if we can.
[2008/05/24 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: true
[2008/05/24 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: im done
[2008/05/24 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so everybody can look at that and send feedback (eg leave votes on a poll)
[2008/05/24 10:29] Moon Adamant: exactly Gwyn
[2008/05/24 10:29] Moon Adamant: we are interested in the citizens’ opinions and vision
[2008/05/24 10:29] You: Can we stay with GMP for now? OK then – as to the “weird sim’ issue Prin raises – which is a good one –
[2008/05/24 10:29] You: Prin, if you do not like the Chancellor’s approval of the “goofy merry go round” sim, try to impeach him 🙂 it;s just a BIG cxase of the executive zoning power, I guess.
[2008/05/24 10:29] You: *sim
[2008/05/24 10:29] Moon Adamant: and we hope the survey helps to – if necessary -make a more complete GMP
[2008/05/24 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie too
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: Jamie as said
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: Nea Hora is a good example
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: it’s a greek village
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: so it will become teh first sim of its own cluster
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: as necessity demands, we expand the cluster
[2008/05/24 10:31] You: and Moon, the Guild also hopes to bring legislation here to formalize the Guild experts giving the Chancellor more assistance with design review and ‘zoning’, does it not?
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: well Jamie
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: the Guild is a non-partisan NGO
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: so we do not formulate political docs
[2008/05/24 10:31] MT Lundquist: apologies I need to leave
[2008/05/24 10:32] You: Ta MT thanks for coming
[2008/05/24 10:32] Moon Adamant: what will happen – perhaps is to what you’re referring –
[2008/05/24 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, MT â€” I’ll be in touch to figure out with you the best time for the commission meeting
[2008/05/24 10:32] Moon Adamant: is that the Building Approval Committee that wiill support the Chancellor will have autonomy to establish its own procedures
[2008/05/24 10:33] Moon Adamant: as indeed will have all departments inside both Faculty and Board in the New Guild
[2008/05/24 10:33] Moon Adamant: was that it?
[2008/05/24 10:34] You: … hm .. do we already have all the ‘law’ and ‘charter’ in place now , for BAC as you see it, or is there more change to be proposed?
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: well, atm
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: the Faculty is voting one single point in the charter
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: that was a point in dissension
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: and we hope to have this voted today
[2008/05/24 10:34] Flyingroc Chung: why not let it work for a while and we can see whether there is a need for more laws
[2008/05/24 10:35] Moon Adamant: so that tomorrow, the Board also reads and votes
[2008/05/24 10:35] Moon Adamant: yes, FR is right
[2008/05/24 10:35] Moon Adamant: the NG Charter is mainly an internal procedure doc
[2008/05/24 10:36] Moon Adamant: more questions?
[2008/05/24 10:36] You: anyone?
[2008/05/24 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds FR
—-
[2008/05/24 10:36] Moon Adamant: if not, can i pass to 4th sim and altenstadt
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: ?
[2008/05/24 10:37] You: OK then
[2008/05/24 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please.
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:37] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: 4th sim
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: 4th sim WG meeting met last night
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: and we created a consensus plan between Ulysse’s and Symo’s
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: the numbers are in review atm, also a new drawing is being made
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: which we hope will be available sonn
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: soon*
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: when we have the numbers
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: we will give them to financials
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: so that a financial plan be made
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: and bith be presented to thsi RA, as usual
[2008/05/24 10:39] Moon Adamant: questions?
[2008/05/24 10:39] You: Not from me – sounds like we are about a month off
[2008/05/24 10:39] Moon Adamant: we hope the rest of the process is veryquick
[2008/05/24 10:39] Moon Adamant: will be*
[2008/05/24 10:40] Moon Adamant: and as Guild will only build infrastructures and landscape, it is possible that the new sim is up very soon
[2008/05/24 10:40] You: Any other Qs on sim4?
[2008/05/24 10:40] You: Altstadt then, hm?
[2008/05/24 10:40] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: the Guild’s plan was to present Altenstadt’s redeployment plan today here at the RA
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: but
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: through the work of another WG
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: which is the gov spaces reorganization wg
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: we realized that many structures in NFS exceed primmage
[2008/05/24 10:42] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/24 10:42] Moon Adamant: and atm, we have to study to see if altenstadt re-deployment won’t exhaust NFS prim bank
[2008/05/24 10:42] Moon Adamant: this will take a bit of work, since we must look at a lot of buildings, etc
[2008/05/24 10:42] Moon Adamant: and parcels
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant: and do a careful counting
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant: hopefully, in teh next week or two we may be able to have an answer
[2008/05/24 10:43] You: I do have a related Q about that.
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/05/24 10:44] You: Say we discover that some low-use gov’t building is a horror of prim consumption
[2008/05/24 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[2008/05/24 10:44] You: Who has the power (legal not SL perms) to remove it?
[2008/05/24 10:44] Moon Adamant: the Chancellor, i believe
[2008/05/24 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: RA does
[2008/05/24 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, indeed.
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, FR
[2008/05/24 10:45] Moon Adamant: for instance, right across us
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the Chancellor that has taken up the role of the old Artisanal Collective
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “enforcing covenants” etc
[2008/05/24 10:45] Flyingroc Chung: Doesn’t the RA have to have a bill to remove govt blddings?
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not *really*
[2008/05/24 10:45] Moon Adamant: Biergarten uses a horror of prims and I already have authorization of Chancellor to replace the build
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* at Moon
[2008/05/24 10:45] Moon Adamant: seeing that to add
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, the RA establishes Covenants
[2008/05/24 10:46] Moon Adamant: to the excess prims
[2008/05/24 10:46] Moon Adamant: we do have the problem of no-perms, wrong-grouped builds or part of builds
[2008/05/24 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in this case, IF the RA wished to get a building removed, it would need to pass a bill to say: “New Covenant for NFS Inner City: No public building shall have over 100% of prims alloted to the parcel” or something like that
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: Yes
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: But
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: Alexi can just wave his pipe and his bowl 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: yes?
[2008/05/24 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course he does,
[2008/05/24 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *can
[2008/05/24 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he’s the Chancellor 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lord Prim Supreme 🙂 (double-pun AND alliteration, yay)
[2008/05/24 10:48] Flyingroc Chung: NL 4-23 is not in force any more?
[2008/05/24 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn awards herself 10 points
[2008/05/24 10:48] Moon Adamant: ahahah
[2008/05/24 10:48] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind … ge=NL+4-23
[2008/05/24 10:48] Jamie Palisades listens with interest to the Fencing Oldsters
[2008/05/24 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, yes, with the replacement of the words “The Guild” by “The Chancellor”
[2008/05/24 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note, however,
[2008/05/24 10:49] Flyingroc Chung: so the RA has to approve any changes to public buildings
[2008/05/24 10:49] Moon Adamant: er… beware that wiki lol
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that most buildings in public land
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have NOT been purchased
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So 4-23 does not apply to those 😉
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/24 10:50] Moon Adamant: hmmm, isn’t chancellor act from term 5?
[2008/05/24 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, very few were ever purchased…
[2008/05/24 10:51] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, this is kind of strange, the intent of that was that we dont have someone who can simply just change things without asking permission
[2008/05/24 10:52] You: So 🙂 I have asked a simple question and got a darn interesting complex answer 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: FR
[2008/05/24 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are no simple answers in the CDS hehe
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: the thing is
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: look at biergarten again
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: it was done by urusula 4 years ago
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: and kendra had a go at it two years ago
[2008/05/24 10:53] Moon Adamant: almost no prims have perms
[2008/05/24 10:53] You: Gwyn, sure there is when laws are well written – or rewritten (grin) Roc you always can propose new laws, GRIN
[2008/05/24 10:53] Moon Adamant: we have prims in group ‘Neulatenburg’ and ‘SDF’!
[2008/05/24 10:53] Moon Adamant: there is no way, unless Kendra or Urusula came to change stuff
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: to alter the things
[2008/05/24 10:54] You: Quite a few, actually 🙂 Which means all we can do is eject, right?
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: so they must be replaced
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: so that in future
[2008/05/24 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR, you can propose, for instance, that the current RA removes the phrase ” to any Objects (objects, scripts, textures, or terrain) sitting on public land which have been purchased by the city”
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: you can do changes
[2008/05/24 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather, drops the bit saying “purchased by the city”
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: because new builds will be in correct groups, with correct perms, and a copy be stored with CA
[2008/05/24 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then it would apply to all buildings on public space, whether purchased or not.
[2008/05/24 10:55] Flyingroc Chung: actually I think overall the RA needs to get out of micromanaging how public structures should be
[2008/05/24 10:55] Moon Adamant: do you still have quorum?
[2008/05/24 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with that, FR
[2008/05/24 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts RA members hmm
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: in any case
[2008/05/24 10:56] You: 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:56] Flyingroc Chung: I think that bill may have been motivated by Dianne’s change of the walls? I dont remember now
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: and to reply to Jamie’s question
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: this Gov Spaces WG
[2008/05/24 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: very likely, it was me being stubborn about the movement who wanted to delete the Church 😉
[2008/05/24 10:56] You: We are at the end of the scheduled items, so I’m not very concerned
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: aims at making an assessment of current gov spaces, and if necessary draw conclusions
[2008/05/24 10:57] Moon Adamant: recommendations like: ‘rebuiltd this’, ‘use this space for Branch X’, etc
[2008/05/24 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, ok, we really need to go through our laws and repeal those we dont use
[2008/05/24 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I suppose that the New Guild will present nice exhibits of the proposed changes anyway
[2008/05/24 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha FR yes!
[2008/05/24 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: and, we probably should have a lot more laws that expire
[2008/05/24 10:58] You: Ahh commissions (evil grin)
[2008/05/24 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Watch this space for a bill to be submitted to address that 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:58] You: Moon, are you finished for today?
[2008/05/24 10:58] Moon Adamant: yes, i am, unless further questions?
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me….
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so next week we’ll meet one hour later than usual?
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wow, we’re even on *time* today!)
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[2008/05/24 10:59] Moon Adamant: just in time for me to go to the grocer’s!
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: Yes that’s correct
[2008/05/24 11:00] Danton Sideways: Well I’m off, bye everyone
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: We’re adoruned unless there are objections
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: and thank you all
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for coming, Danton!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, well, thanks all
[2008/05/24 11:00] Moon Adamant: bye Danton
—-
[2008/05/24 11:00] Rose Springvale: hey!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: Yes, Rose?
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for coming, oh clouded one!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Danton Sideways: Bye Rose!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Rose Springvale: isn’t there an open part of this agenda?
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOOD point
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:01] Moon Adamant: the grocers .(
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: just wanted to encourage you all to donate for the Auction
[2008/05/24 11:01] You: That is WHY I was asking if there were objectons, Rose
[2008/05/24 11:01] You: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: which will be June 8 2-5 pm in AM
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are you going to auction, Rose? 😉
[2008/05/24 11:01] You: Ah excellent – when’s the deadline for donating?
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale smiles slyly
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: June 6 please
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: so we can get them scripted and set out
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: Mr LRA
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: permission to withdraw 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:02] You: Thanks again Moon 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: bye moon 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:02] You: Works rather like the last one, yes? Where I picked up artwork from Moon and a Burnham hatstand?
[2008/05/24 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: similar, yes
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: the burnham hatstand was a rarity
[2008/05/24 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I can donate old clothes lol
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: goodbye everyone!
[2008/05/24 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye Moonie 😀
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale smiles at Gwyn.
[2008/05/24 11:03] Moon Adamant: thank you Jamie for chairing, and thanks the reps 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale: this is not the salvation army 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[2008/05/24 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we can only donate *fancy* things??
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale: but if you want to donate old clothes, i’ll find a creative use for them 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:03] You: ha – I wouldn’t turn down the contents of GWYN’s closet if I were you
[2008/05/24 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly most of it is non-transfer, Jamie 😉
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale: not turning down anything!
[2008/05/24 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:04] Rose Springvale: we’ll have fun with it
[2008/05/24 11:04] Jamie Palisades grins – ah the price of vanity
[2008/05/24 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh and you’re not a cloud any more, Rose!…. much better that way hehe
[2008/05/24 11:04] Rose Springvale: anyway, just wanted it in the record 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:04] Rose Springvale: thanks
[2008/05/24 11:05] You: Anyway I have an idea abut what Gwyn should donate 🙂 and will take it up with her
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uuuhh
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh!
[2008/05/24 11:05] Rose Springvale: hehe
[2008/05/24 11:05] You: and thank YOU Rose for organizing this – sounds like it will be fun
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her ears*
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, we need more *fun* events!
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw what happened to Maifest? 😉
[2008/05/24 11:06] You: Ask your PIO 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: riiiiight
[2008/05/24 11:06] You: And Gwyn have you heard any more from Arria on SL5B? I have not
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hm, uh, no?
[2008/05/24 11:06] You: I will go make some pings then – the deadlines approach 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes indeed, they do…
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard some vague discussions at the NG
[2008/05/24 11:07] Rose Springvale: guess you are adjourned?
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that they were doing something like a “standard CDS booth”?
[2008/05/24 11:07] You: we are 🙂
—
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: goodie 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, that could be dropped on the SL5B
[2008/05/24 11:07] Rose Springvale: kk
[2008/05/24 11:07] Rose Springvale: bye 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depending on the exact date, I’m always glad to do an event or two there
[2008/05/24 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Rose :))
[2008/05/24 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: May 31, 2008

Agenda

1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 10h00 – 10h20)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

2. General Master Plan bill (20 mins.: 10h20 – 10h40)
— See discussion last week.
— Draft at: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1871
3. Guild report regarding Sim4 (20 mins: 10h40 – 11h00)
4. Confirmation of SC nominations (15 mins: 11h00 – 11h15)
5. Commerce Commission recommendations (15 mins.: 11h15 – 11h30)
— Drafts expected, carried over from last week, see transcript

NEW ITEMS

6. RA parliamentary & archive assistance (10 mins.: 11h30 – 11h40)
7. Other?
8. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 11h45-12h00)
Adjournment: 12h00
Summary

31 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary
Held in Colonia Nova Praetorium
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1891
====
[2008/05/31 10:09] Call to order
[2008/05/31 10:10] 1a – Assent to recording
[2008/05/31 10:10] 1d – Routine call for transcript corrections
[2008/05/31 10:11] 1c – Routine call for other speakers
[2008/05/31 10:12] 1b – Call for changes to agenda (SC confirmations moved to before item 2)
[2008/05/31 10:16] 1e – Future meeting times
[2008/05/31 10:17] 1f – Consent items (none)
—-
[2008/05/31 10:18] 4 – SC nomination confirmations
[2008/05/31 10:20] —- Dnate Mars presentation
[2008/05/31 10:33] —— Nomination confirmed 7-0-0.
[2008/05/31 10:34] —- Cindy Ecksol presentation
[2008/05/31 11:06] —— Motion to sanction ThePrincess Parisi, seconded [11:07], withdrawn [11:14] [2008/05/31 11:16] —— Nomination confirmed 4-2-1.

[2008/05/31 11:19] Agenda modified.
[2008/05/31 11:19] 3 – Colonia Nova West (Sim4)
[2008/05/31 11:20] —- Guild report; Plan noted: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857
[2008/05/31 11:43] —- Motion to approve plan, sim made; seconded at [11:44] [2008/05/31 11:52] —— Motion clarified (includes land plot plan)
[2008/05/31 11:56] —— Amendment made to approve the land rent rates proposed by Sudane (same URI) – at the lowest of the four options presented – UNLESS the RA acts within 30 days; seconded [11:57] [2008/05/31 12:00] ——– Amendment made to amendment, to refer to second highest rates proposed; died for lack of second
[2008/05/31 12:03] ——– Amendment rejected 1-5-1
[2008/05/31 12:06] —— Motion clarified: approves plan, does not instruct Treasurer to purchase sim
[2008/05/31 12:07] —— Original motion approved (approve plan, no rates set) 7-0-0
[2008/05/31 12:08] —- Further discussion of rental rates
[2008/05/31 12:10] —— Motion to set rates (2nd highest as proposed); seconded [12:12] [2008/05/31 12:12] ——– Further discussion
[2008/05/31 12:33] ——– Consensus to continue disussing at next meeting
[2008/05/31 12:39] Adjournment.

Note also announcement & pointer re Elections Commission made at [12:20], references

Transcript

====
Transcript of 31 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/05/31 10:00] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alpine%20Meadow/180/200/55
[2008/05/31 10:01] You: Good morning all – forgive me while I do a few IMs to summon folks
[2008/05/31 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: are u trying to brainwash us roc
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: roxanne
[2008/05/31 10:04] Flyingroc Chung: I got song stuck in my head, and so must all of you
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: she bangs
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i love that one i had it in my head for a year
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i hate you roc
[2008/05/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: my heads weird enoough
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: I have one too — I rewrote “the Rose” for my stepdaughter
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves are just some clothing — that covers up your hands
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves are more warming in the cold than wristbands
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves accessorize you better than sleeves alone
[2008/05/31 10:06] You: heh
[2008/05/31 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/31 10:06] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: I say gloves will not disguise you because your face is not unknown
[2008/05/31 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: CUTE
[2008/05/31 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: mt wont be here
[2008/05/31 10:06] You: Well, we are quorate – almost done with the notices 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe
[2008/05/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees some future SC members approaching…
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is that floating around you, Dnate??!?
[2008/05/31 10:08] Dnate Mars: I am really sorry guys, an emergancy has come up, I only have about 15 more minutes before I have to leave
[2008/05/31 10:08] Flyingroc Chung: peanut butter and jelly
[2008/05/31 10:08] You: NP and thank you for coming
[2008/05/31 10:08] Dnate Mars: my friends, PB and &J
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh *why*?!
[2008/05/31 10:08] Beathan Vale: hmmm — I also rewrote the marriage scene from Monty Python’s grail to be the DNC rules committee — with Hillary as Launcelot …
[2008/05/31 10:08] Beathan Vale: busy week for me — except for work lol
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Beathan!
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
[2008/05/31 10:09] Dnate Mars: I was bored with Shark and Cat?
[2008/05/31 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Cindy, sorry, I hadn’t seen you!)
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: Sonja’s coming 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:09] Cindy Ecksol: that’s ok….I just walked in
—-
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: Let’s get started and call to order
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: proposed agenda is HERE > /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1885
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: One proposal for change is before us in a moment
—-
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: 1a
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: would all present please indicate assent to being recorded. I assent.
[2008/05/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn assents
[2008/05/31 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/31 10:10] Beathan Vale: so long as my statements are never used for nefarious or Clintonian purposes, I assent
[2008/05/31 10:10] Dnate Mars: I assent
—-
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: 1b – routine notice – let me know if the transcripts are in error please, smile
—-
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: 1c
[2008/05/31 10:11] Cindy Ecksol: assent
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: Any speakers other than RA (and SC nominees) who have an item for us to include on agenda today?
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: not hearing any
[2008/05/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me, I’m afraid I have to catch up on my RA homework…
—-
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: 1b (reversed with 1d sorry)
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: Agenda changes? I have one. Dnate is kind enough to join us even though he has to rush off.
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: May we move the vote on his confirmation to before item 2?
[2008/05/31 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: mt is on his way .. i think that we will like to wait for him for that
[2008/05/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem with me 😀
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: he was told it was at 1115
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: and Cindy, I though, might not be able to join us, but since she is here, we can get her done early as well, hm?
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: Well up to you all 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no cos MT was told it was at 1115 but
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: Ah MT
[2008/05/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely has no problem with doing the SC vote of confidence on *every member* first
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e works for them its fine
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: yes I just heard from him, he expects to be here in 10 mins, he’s momentatily busy in RL of course as you know
[2008/05/31 10:14] You: 🙂 I will move to make SC confirmation #2 (before the current #2) – unless there are no objections ?
[2008/05/31 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: hi sonja
[2008/05/31 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there, Sonja 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:14] Flyingroc Chung: there are no objections
[2008/05/31 10:15] Flyingroc Chung: from me
[2008/05/31 10:15] Sonja Strom: Hi
[2008/05/31 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections here, and ready to vote!
[2008/05/31 10:15] You: OK
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: that’s it for the agenda then
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: 1e
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: Future meetings
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: Please note the Forum posts on this
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: roughly:
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: next week – Alexi’s Chancellor report
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: 7 June
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: after that
[2008/05/31 10:16] Beathan Vale: King County once had this crazy judge who would object and overrule himself during trials — it was a hoot
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: 14 June, (smile) Treasurer report and budget process chat
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: Hello
[2008/05/31 10:17] Moon Adamant: hello everyone, sorry i am late
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: (Rose, MT, others, please do assent to recording when you get a chance, if you have not)
[2008/05/31 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi blows MT a kiss
[2008/05/31 10:17] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
—
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: 1f
[2008/05/31 10:17] Sonja Strom: i assent
[2008/05/31 10:17] Moon Adamant: i aseent to recording
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: And consent items today? I know of none
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist blows one back
[2008/05/31 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi everybody that just came in 🙂 )
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: Any consent items other than blown kisses?
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely consents on blown kisses .)
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: OK then
[2008/05/31 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont blow you a kiss gwyen
—-
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: item 4, which we modified the agenda to take out of order
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: hush 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:18] Moon Adamant: hi Justice
[2008/05/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’ll survive, Prin 😉 )
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: 4
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: Confirming SC nominees
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: please note:
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 1. majority vote required
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 2. no action in 30 days = automatic assent
[2008/05/31 10:19] Beathan Vale: Justice — you are sitting on Rose
[2008/05/31 10:19] Justice Soothsayer: sorry
[2008/05/31 10:19] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 3. Dnate’s first, as he has time constraints
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 4. we’d asked them to come chat 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: so here we are
[2008/05/31 10:19] Rose Springvale: i like justice!
[2008/05/31 10:19] Jamie Palisades wrinkles his nose – “I like justice…” heh
[2008/05/31 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi claps
[2008/05/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:20] Rose Springvale smiles
—-
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: Dnate? Congratulations on your nomination.
[2008/05/31 10:20] Dnate Mars: Thank you
[2008/05/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Congrats indeed 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi puts that snapshot away for safe keeping
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: Anything to share with us? Then I will ask for Qs from RA members.
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: (No no, nothing required, just giving you a chance if you wish)
[2008/05/31 10:20] Beathan Vale: Justice — chair between Rose and me is open
[2008/05/31 10:21] Beathan Vale: I meant “Justice” not “Justrice”
[2008/05/31 10:21] Dnate Mars: I think most of what I have done within the CDS is well known. I have been involved for a long time in the workings of the government
[2008/05/31 10:21] Beathan Vale: now there’s a type
[2008/05/31 10:21] Dnate Mars: I will gladly answer any questions anyone has
[2008/05/31 10:21] You: Hush BV 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi thinks Beathan went to starbucks this am
[2008/05/31 10:22] Dnate Mars: that is all
[2008/05/31 10:22] Flyingroc Chung: whats your position on term limits for SC members?
[2008/05/31 10:22] You: I have one 🙂 What’s the expected time commitment as you understand it, Dnate? We have seen some lonely Deans and long meeting gaps occasionally
[2008/05/31 10:22] You: FR first 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* right…
[2008/05/31 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: just be upfront and ask dnate what his schedule is like and can he make the time committment necessary
[2008/05/31 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi hates beating around bushes
[2008/05/31 10:23] You: Dnate – Roc asked about term limits?
[2008/05/31 10:23] Dnate Mars: Term limits are an interesting idea that do need to be looked into. At this point it needs to be discussed more before I can make an informed statement
[2008/05/31 10:23] You: 🙂 and my Q about time commitments
[2008/05/31 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a Q
[2008/05/31 10:24] Dnate Mars: Time commitmnets, I should be able to work with nearly any schedule. I am very open and flexible, except with unplanned things come up like just now :/
[2008/05/31 10:25] MT Lundquist: quick move jamie
[2008/05/31 10:25] You: 🙂 are there a lot of SC meetings these days? Not really a Q for you I guess 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: so its different now than when you were chancellor right dnate? your schedule is really different now
[2008/05/31 10:25] You: Prin and BV had Qs as well. Princess?
[2008/05/31 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: TheP
[2008/05/31 10:25] Dnate Mars: Yes, very much so, the things that were eating my time back then no longer are there
[2008/05/31 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: well, i just wonder .. if you have to rule on an item and its not clearly stated in the constitution, how will you make that decision
[2008/05/31 10:26] You: 🙂 oo I like that one!
[2008/05/31 10:26] Dnate Mars: I will look at the laws, and the intent behind laws. It is all I have to look at
[2008/05/31 10:27] Dnate Mars: Sometimes I may have vote to return a law to the RA to be made more clear
[2008/05/31 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: nods
[2008/05/31 10:27] You: hm – us, unclear? (grin) – I think Beathan also had a Q 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:27] Beathan Vale: How would you analyze the right of a citizen to property verses the right of the CDS to determine and regulate use of that property — what principles and analysis would you use (in general, hypothetical terms)
[2008/05/31 10:27] Dnate Mars: Also, discussing it with fellow SC members will be important
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your Honour, I object to Beathan’s question.
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, Mr LRA.
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: No honour here, dulci, we are politicians …
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: but
[2008/05/31 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol on “no honour here”!!!
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: it’s for Dnate to answer or not according to his own taste 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:28] Beathan Vale: and — how would you determine “intent” when analyzing issues about which there is no clear constitutional authority
[2008/05/31 10:29] Beathan Vale: and — please describe the history of the world — be brief — lol
[2008/05/31 10:29] You: hah
[2008/05/31 10:29] You: anywhere you want to take all that, Dnate?
[2008/05/31 10:29] Dnate Mars: There will always be things that will be unclear in the constitution, if everything was clear, there would be no need for the SC
[2008/05/31 10:29] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/31 10:29] Beathan Vale: but seriously — the first 2 questions are real —
[2008/05/31 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont have to misbehave today, bv will do it
[2008/05/31 10:30] Dnate Mars: I will do what is best to uphold the principles that the CDS was founded on, and what the laws and constitution reflect
[2008/05/31 10:30] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/05/31 10:30] Dnate Mars: I do not know enough about the issue you bring up to make a judgement on it right now
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: One quick short follow-up, maybe, Beathan?
[2008/05/31 10:31] Dnate Mars: I will just use what I can to determine what the correct ruling would be
[2008/05/31 10:31] Beathan Vale: fair enough — no I’m done
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: Or have you had your shot?
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: OK 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: Members are you ready to vote on confirming Dnate’s nomination?
[2008/05/31 10:31] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/31 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i suppose
[2008/05/31 10:31] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/05/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, lol
[2008/05/31 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/05/31 10:32] You: 🙂 Please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has to relog
[2008/05/31 10:32] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: I have worked with Dnate for quite a while and i have always known him to be fair level headed and more and most importnantly wants what is best for CDS and each citizen
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote AYE!
[2008/05/31 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I most assuredly vote “aye” as well, with compliments to the Dean for such a great choice, and congratulations on Dnate’s acceptance of that honour!
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and smart
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And looks good, too 😉
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and wise
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and blue
[2008/05/31 10:33] Dnate Mars: You guys are making be blush
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ish
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: Approved 7-0-0, right? Did I hear MT?
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: do you blush purple
[2008/05/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blush or Blue-sh? 😉
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he said aye but he had to rlog
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: kk thanks
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yay
[2008/05/31 10:33] Dnate Mars: I thank you and look forward to serving you
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: and thank you Dnate for sticking with us, time commitments and all, and good luck 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: may the force be with you
[2008/05/31 10:34] Dnate Mars: Thank you, but I do need to run
[2008/05/31 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good luck, and RUN!
[2008/05/31 10:34] Dnate Mars: Good luck Cindy
[2008/05/31 10:34] You: Cindy 🙂 You are our second nominee
—-
[2008/05/31 10:34] Cindy Ecksol: congrats dnate — and thanks!
[2008/05/31 10:34] You: Any words from you before I ask for questions?
[2008/05/31 10:35] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll just comment that when claude asked if I’d be willing to be nominated, my first concern was that I did not have enough experience in CDS to do the job well
[2008/05/31 10:35] Cindy Ecksol: but I’ve spent the last few weeks reading up on CDS history and precedents, and others I’ve consulted have told me that I’ll do fine, so I’m willing to trust their opinions
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: assuming that the RA thinks I’m qualified, of course.
[2008/05/31 10:36] You: Thank you. Questions for Cindy?
[2008/05/31 10:36] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/31 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/31 10:36] Flyingroc Chung: Who is your favorite US supreme court justice?
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[2008/05/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I object to FR’s question too 😉
[2008/05/31 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i object to gwyens objections
[2008/05/31 10:36] You: OK and I have one 🙂 and BV may resurrect his 🙂 MT first
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: who is she to object to anything
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: object
[2008/05/31 10:37] You: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 10:37] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/31 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m an elected RA member!
[2008/05/31 10:37] Cindy Ecksol: ok, FR, I’ll answer — it’s former justice Sandra Day O’Connor.
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: not really but ok
[2008/05/31 10:37] You: pax, you lot. MT has the floor
[2008/05/31 10:37] MT Lundquist: cindy do you recall the last SC meeting at which you were present as a nominee
[2008/05/31 10:37] Beathan Vale: Cindy — other than Souter — she’s mine too — even though her opinions tend to be unreadable
[2008/05/31 10:37] Cindy Ecksol: I was not present as a nominee, just an observer
[2008/05/31 10:38] MT Lundquist: oh i understood that you had already been nominated for the SC at that point
[2008/05/31 10:38] Cindy Ecksol: part of my education process, mt — I had never been to an sc session before
[2008/05/31 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: she had MT, it was known to her
[2008/05/31 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: this makes my point
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: um
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: MT
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: was there a question in there?
[2008/05/31 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: he’s not done
[2008/05/31 10:39] MT Lundquist: that meeting in part looked at whether a member of the RA could eject an unruly person did it not
[2008/05/31 10:39] Cindy Ecksol: actually I’m not sure that was the question….but continue
[2008/05/31 10:39] Beathan Vale: Cindy — given that you are a recent citizen, what will you do to better familiarize yourself with the history (especially legal history) of the CDS and the CDS constitution so that you have the knowledge needed to construe it and the intent of the founders?
[2008/05/31 10:40] MT Lundquist: and at that meeting you decided to ‘Freeze’ hePrincess parisi an RA member giving evidence to the SC did you not?
[2008/05/31 10:40] You: MT still has the floor 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:40] Cindy Ecksol: ah…are you asking if I’ve stopped beating my wife yet?
[2008/05/31 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: no i’m asking if you froze an RA member giving evidence to the SC
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: did he crash?
[2008/05/31 10:41] Cindy Ecksol: no, I did not freeze an RA member giving evidence to the sc
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: you did too .. lol
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: you admitted it in my presence at the time
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: she did !!
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: i have the chat logs
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gosh shes a liar too
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: are you lying now
[2008/05/31 10:42] You: Let’s be civil – which means, let Cindy answer, then see if MT has more questions – then we turn to the next RA member 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:42] Cindy Ecksol: no, I was testing the contention of a witness that there were no other options than to eject a person from public space
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i never said that was my only option
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: now you are lying again
[2008/05/31 10:42] Cindy Ecksol: I did not know what “freeze” would do, so it seemed prudent to test it before bringing it up.
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: so did you freeze an RA member giving evidence to the RA
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: yes or no
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: thats the truth! she did it….finally
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: so you chose to do it in an SC session
[2008/05/31 10:43] Cindy Ecksol: sorry — I am confused. what is this about an ra member in the ra being frozen?
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: on an RA member giving evidence
[2008/05/31 10:43] You: MT, you and Cindy seem to disagree, on some details but not others. Seems clear enough. Is there anything more to be said about your question? Or do we move to the next one? Ideally without name calling.
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: well my point here is i feel that Cindy display extreme irresponsibility in doing that
[2008/05/31 10:44] MT Lundquist: and she seemed to try and evade the truth a moment ago
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: ok. Both points made 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:44] MT Lundquist: i do not consider that a good basis for her to become an sc member
[2008/05/31 10:44] Cindy Ecksol: just one moment, JP — I object to that statement by MT
[2008/05/31 10:44] Beathan Vale: well — I think her explanation indicates the opposite — she did not want to say something that might be untrue — so she needed to test it first
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: WE………..know you better and have been affliated with you longer than the rest of th e members of CDS, and we the members of NUCARE strongly object to you being a member of the SC, you have shown extreme lack of judgement on many occasions and do not have the best interest in mind of CDS
[2008/05/31 10:44] Beathan Vale: this dead horse is well-beaten
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan you were not there
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: *ahem*
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and you do not know what we know
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: would all please be still for a moment
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: its one of many many instances of lack of judgement
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and poor choices
[2008/05/31 10:45] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and disregard for the citizens
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: we can in fact disvuss hot items in cool tones, hm?
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: Prin
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: you are out of order now. Last request
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: I *think* MT was done with his question – and got an answer – and didn;t like it – and tht’s OK. And Cindy objected to MT’s statement, and that’s OK too.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: And we are done with that thread.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: only that i was there and MT is right
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: And it is Princess’s turn for any civil question.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i ask a question to a person who lies, and will twist the truth to her own side and is not NOT the person who will best serve CDS,
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i cannot
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i will only say
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i know her best
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and i do NOT approve
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: not for personal reasons
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: but for the benefit of CDS
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: whic h i love
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and i support
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and she tries to damage
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: she is the enemy within
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/05/31 10:47] You: OK, that’s a statement, but perfectly in order. 🙂 Any other questions from the RA?
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: we vote NO
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/31 10:47] Beathan Vale: ok — I have my q
[2008/05/31 10:48] Cindy Ecksol: I saw it back there, beathan…hold on a sec while I retrieve
[2008/05/31 10:48] You: 🙂 go BV
[2008/05/31 10:48] Beathan Vale: Cindy — given that you are a recent citizen, what will you do to better familiarize yourself with the history (especially legal history) of the CDS and the CDS constitution so that you have the knowledge needed to construe it and the intent of the founders?
[2008/05/31 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi raises hand…..!!
[2008/05/31 10:48] Cindy Ecksol: ah, yes….about familiarzing myself with history of cds
[2008/05/31 10:49] Cindy Ecksol: I’ve spent some time in the last few weeks looking over the available history in the wiki and of course the constitution.
[2008/05/31 10:49] Cindy Ecksol: here in cds, time flies a LOT faster than in RL….so in four years we’ve got about 20 years of “history”
[2008/05/31 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: maybe more….it’s been quite a run.
[2008/05/31 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: sitting on the SC, I think that not only the constitution as documented and the laws as passed have relevance — so also does the flow of history. there are things in RA logs, for instance, that may need to be referred to in order to make good rulings
[2008/05/31 10:51] Cindy Ecksol: my intent is to keep that in mind whrn issues arise and go back and look (or talk to those who have been around for longer than I) when such matters arise
[2008/05/31 10:51] You: Hello to visitors, please sit or move, this is a formal meeting 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:51] You: Cindy is done with Beathan’s Q. All done BV?
[2008/05/31 10:52] Beathan Vale: one more
[2008/05/31 10:52] Flyingroc Chung: I hear somebody typing
[2008/05/31 10:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks it’s beathan
[2008/05/31 10:53] Beathan Vale: there are allegations that you do not work and play well with others — given that the SC is a team can we get a commitment from you that you will be a “team player” — and can you tell us what you think of the other SC members
[2008/05/31 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2008/05/31 10:53] Justice Soothsayer: present company excluded?
[2008/05/31 10:53] Jamie Palisades mutters: aside from Justice’s suit
[2008/05/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: well, I cannot give you an opinion of the other SC members because I honestly do not know them well.
[2008/05/31 10:54] Cindy Ecksol: however I can say that the vast majority of those with whom I have spent time in CDS and worked on projects with would probably tell you that I’m a pretty good team player.
[2008/05/31 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: you team doesnt agree.
[2008/05/31 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yours you picked
[2008/05/31 10:55] Cindy Ecksol: I generally do not like to act alone, but that is not to say that when an issue is not being addressed, I will not step forward and take action that I think in necessary for the good of the community
[2008/05/31 10:55] MT Lundquist: like placing walls in colonia nova
[2008/05/31 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: or your own good ?? and how you look to others??
[2008/05/31 10:55] You: I think Cindy’s done. Roc did you have something?
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: the hot tub was damaging the CDS ! you cant wait for the process.. you take it in your own hands
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: ssst
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: or your faction voting to not run for RA and you doint what you want
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: Prin 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: well.. come one.. im sorry
[2008/05/31 10:56] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, may I address that?
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: Is this your final statement? Or did you have a question?
[2008/05/31 10:56] MT Lundquist: there is a point here about due process
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: she has a canned statement .. go on
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: In a moment Cin, let’s get the Q out
[2008/05/31 10:56] MT Lundquist: that cindy didnt follow
[2008/05/31 10:56] Flyingroc Chung: cindy answered my question about the justices
[2008/05/31 10:57] MT Lundquist: does not bode well for the SC
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she knew that was important.. its a pattern
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its not isolated
[2008/05/31 10:57] Flyingroc Chung: and she picked the safe one 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: MT, Prin, I want this to be aired, but not re-re-hashed. Are you done with stating your question?
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she wants to give us her canned statement about it, let her
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: Well
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: I hope I do not surprise
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: but I was going to ask about it myself
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: sridhar, we can hear you 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:58] Sridhar Shepherd: sorry
[2008/05/31 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: It’s a valid question, and an important one
[2008/05/31 10:58] You: Personally I did not approve of Prin ejecting a citizen from here — though when acting in official capacity, I have to rely on law, not “personal taste” .. but …
[2008/05/31 10:58] You: .. I didn’t like CIndy’s use of a tech tool to freeze Prin any more than that.
[2008/05/31 10:59] You: So Cin, I too am very interested in your take on whether that tactic was ultimately legit in a public meeting.
[2008/05/31 10:59] You: That’s all I wanted yo say. You wanted to respond?
[2008/05/31 10:59] Cindy Ecksol: ah… that’s not the question I thought you were asking.
[2008/05/31 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: no shes talking about when she built walls around our land
[2008/05/31 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: cos she disagreed with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: ah 🙂 sorry
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: No, Jamie, had I understood what the “freeze” would do, I would not have considered it a “proper tactic” in a public meeting.
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Let’s talk about the walls then
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Please go ahead Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: same issue though, tell us why you wont wait for the process cindy … same how you ran for RA without the factions apporoval
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: three instances where you do what you want
[2008/05/31 11:00] Beathan Vale: I don’t see how a citizens landscaping improvements to their property is at all relevant to their ability to competently serve on the SC
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: not what the process says
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: ok….I’m confused. are we talking about the wall or about the freeze?
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Prin. Cindy has the floor 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Walls
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: ok, walls.
[2008/05/31 11:01] MT Lundquist: not her property Beathan another citizens
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: she built a wall around what she didnt like beathean on a citizens land, even though the chancellor approved it
[2008/05/31 11:01] You: hush please
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: actually the wall was built on public property
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: cos she disagred with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes to hide a citizzens build
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did not do it because I disagreed with the chancellor.
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: you built on the sidewalk
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: tell us why then
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did it because the chancellor was refusing to act on a clear violation of the covenant.
[2008/05/31 11:01] Moon Adamant: was a waiver of the chancellor duly made public in reference to that?
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: why didnt you wait for the
[2008/05/31 11:01] You: (We are running over time but I regard this as sufficiently important to merit it. Any RA member who disagrees, feel free to call for an immediate vote.)
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: it was his opinion that
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did not do it on my own, I did it in conjunction with two other citizens
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: YOU DISAGREED WITH HIM !
[2008/05/31 11:01] MT Lundquist: so you did disagree with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: HE SAID IT WAS NOT A HOT TUB
[2008/05/31 11:02] MT Lundquist: and acted unilaterally
[2008/05/31 11:02] You: Prin. Last request. Please let her talk without interruption.
[2008/05/31 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: SO DID DNATE
[2008/05/31 11:02] You: …
[2008/05/31 11:03] Jamie Palisades waits for Cindy’s response, and then her indication that she is done.
[2008/05/31 11:03] Cindy Ecksol: I disagreed on his unwillingness to act. he told me later that he did not act because he had “more important things” to deal with and he did not think that those of us (not just me) who had brought this to his attention were “serious” about it.
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he acted in a way you disagreed with, you lie again
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he acted
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: you disagreed and took in your own hands
[2008/05/31 11:03] Cindy Ecksol: building the wall was a way to draw attention to the issue in a clear and humorous way. it forced the chancellor to take the issue seriously and act on it.
[2008/05/31 11:03] MT Lundquist: so you regularly act as judge jury and executioner then!!!
[2008/05/31 11:03] You: OK. Prin, MT you are out of order.
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: lol humorous to block a citizens commercial land from view of the street
[2008/05/31 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: you all need to know the truth
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: IMs to me please cease.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: Cindy please wait.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: Here’s what I am going to do.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: And yes I am ignoring all IMs 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ALL of them (rolls eyes)
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: 1. I will move now to ask the RA to vote to sanction Prin for interrupting continually.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 2. I will call for immediate vote.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 3. We’ll vote.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 4. I will END the meeting 🙂 if it continues
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 5. If we restore order I will ask Cindy to continue
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 6. If you silly people don’t get this done, she will be APPROVED by time lapse anyway 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: now then
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: I move that the RA sanction Princess – simply a statement of disapproval – for continued interruption of a spakder after repeating requests to come to order.
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: sorry for the typos 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: Is there a second? I didn’t rehearse this 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I would just kindly request Princess NOT to interrupt the LRA any more
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: Just as a converstaional point, I will mention that if you do not support me on this I resign immeiately 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she disagrees with the request, I’ll second the motion 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: sigh
[2008/05/31 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: I second
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: I cannot keep order without the RA’s support. Not ban, not eject, not freeze – just a resolution.
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: and it is OK with me if you vote it down.
[2008/05/31 11:07] MT Lundquist: i object to blackmail mr LRA
[2008/05/31 11:07] MT Lundquist: in obtaining a second
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, MT, you’re right
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: It has been moved and seconded. Prin, I value your contributions, but not the constant rude interruptions. I hope we Can have the one without the other. Does anyone wish to speak to this motion?
[2008/05/31 11:08] Moon Adamant: blackmail?
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: No blackmail 🙂 You can get along without me just fine.
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: Any one wish to speak to the motion?
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are things in the Constitution referring to the “no ultimatum” rule 😉
[2008/05/31 11:08] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[2008/05/31 11:08] Flyingroc Chung: no gwyn, we removed that 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: I would be grateful for your explanation, Gwyn, you know much more about it than me 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft. Who was the silly person who removed that??
[2008/05/31 11:08] MT Lundquist: I believe you need to withdraw the motion now on those grounds
[2008/05/31 11:09] Beathan Vale: I don’t recall that being removed
[2008/05/31 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* if it was removed, it stays removed
[2008/05/31 11:09] You: I see that as a valid point of order. If I am acting unconstitutionally I must withdraw it 🙂 Who can point me to that law?
[2008/05/31 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi moves that we vote
[2008/05/31 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: vote on cindy’s approveal
[2008/05/31 11:09] Beathan Vale: no JP — your “sanction” is allowed by the RA rules
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: sanction me, but lets vote i dont care about the sanction
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i thoyght the public had a right to know
[2008/05/31 11:10] Beathan Vale: it is not an ultimatum under that term of the Constituion — which was addressed more to Ulrika’s “do what I do or I will rain holy hell on the CDS and destroy all public buildings”
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: I think that if we proceed immediately to a vote on CIndy’s nomination we will have acheived our purpose. If that’s acceptable to everyone I would be happy to withdraw my motion, if the seconder agrees. FR?
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: it rather felt like an ultimatum
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: (And no, no plans vis a vis holy hell )
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: i resign if i dont get a second
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: !!!!!!
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: only a resignation in the face of my failure to keep order, MT
[2008/05/31 11:11] You: There’s an easy way not to run into such uncomfortable issues 🙂 all must stay in order
[2008/05/31 11:11] You: Roc? OK with you if I withdraw my motion? You were the seconder
[2008/05/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m for going straightforward into the vote of confidence on Cindy’s nomination.
[2008/05/31 11:11] MT Lundquist: then withdraw the motion and ask
[2008/05/31 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: in any case the constitutional ban on ultimatums does not apply to jamie, even if it were still there
[2008/05/31 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: “Citizens are may not issue departure ultimatums to members of the government. In return the government will not issue discharge ultimatums to citizens.”
[2008/05/31 11:11] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: FR — yes
[2008/05/31 11:12] Flyingroc Chung: I’m ok with the motion’s withdrawal
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: and internal RA sanctions are not “departure orders” — and are specifically allowed by RA rules
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: although, to sanction an RA member requires an RA vote
[2008/05/31 11:12] You: OK I take that as a yes 🙂 But I warn you all that if you always will avoid acting formally to sanction, we will not be able to maintain order under strained circumstances
[2008/05/31 11:12] MT Lundquist: but an ultimatum is
[2008/05/31 11:12] MT Lundquist: even in RA
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: MT, while I do not see the constitutional rule as applying here – even with Gwyn’s hint to the contrary, basd on my own reading of it – it will be moot if I withdraw it 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:13] Flyingroc Chung: BTW, this is actualy a fairly big problem, the two versions of the constitution are not in sync anymore
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: so I’d suggest we not try to beat that issue into shape, shrug
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: Roc – later please?
[2008/05/31 11:13] Flyingroc Chung: sure 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:14] You: I withdraw my motion, and ask for an immediate vote on CIndy’s confirmation without further debate.
[2008/05/31 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: on behalf of the nuCARE faction we vote NO NO NO Cindy is not suited for SC, not in her ability to care what is best for CDS and to follow procedure.
[2008/05/31 11:14] You: Members please state their vote. I abstain.
[2008/05/31 11:14] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/31 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye.
[2008/05/31 11:14] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 11:14] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 11:15] You: Let’s see – that’s 3-2-1 and no BV vote.
[2008/05/31 11:15] Beathan Vale: this is a tough one for me — I am not sure what to make of the allegations and I am concerned about the “freeze” and the walls …
[2008/05/31 11:15] Cindy Ecksol thinks that “debate” was cut off too early
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: but, I vote aye — with an asterix …
[2008/05/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We all do mistakes, beathan. Some citizens here remember when I returned *all scripted objects* in NFS once by a silly mistake
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: I expect better behavior from a sitting SC member
[2008/05/31 11:16] Moon Adamant: so it’s passed, Mr. LRA
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/05/31 11:16] MT Lundquist: mistakes are one thing, delibrate acts another
[2008/05/31 11:16] You: Cindy, you are confirmed, 4-2-1. And I agree that debate was cut off, but I was unable to keep order any better than that, for which I apolgize.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Justice Soothsayer looks around for the asterisk he frequently wears
[2008/05/31 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: barely.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Cindy Ecksol: thank you all.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Moon Adamant: Congratulations Cindy 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Congrats 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:16] You: Congratulations and best of luck.
[2008/05/31 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: pathetic really
[2008/05/31 11:16] Justice Soothsayer: Congrats, Cindy.
[2008/05/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: congratulations cindy
[2008/05/31 11:17] Cindy Ecksol: thanks
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: and we are – heh – a little behind on our agenda
—-
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: ladies and gentlemen: we have a choice
[2008/05/31 11:17] MT Lundquist: this is not a good day for CDS
[2008/05/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: sighs
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: next item would be 2 Commerce Commission … but Sim4 also is an issue with a deadline
[2008/05/31 11:18] You: even more so that item 2 GMP
[2008/05/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a comment, but I’ll withdraw my request to comment for the sake of expediency
[2008/05/31 11:18] Moon Adamant: i’ll have to leave in about 40 minutes time
[2008/05/31 11:18] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: so I suggest we consider taking up Sim4 (agenda item 3) next because that’s the one with the most people and money riding on it imminnently. I am proposing to put GMP after Sim4. Moon, would that make more sense to the Guild’s needs?
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: or do we need to act on GMP first?
[2008/05/31 11:19] Moon Adamant: no, it’s perfect ok
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: ok
[2008/05/31 11:19] Moon Adamant: i can start with CN-West
—-
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: item 3 then
[2008/05/31 11:20] You: yes please

[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: i am sorry for not being able to prepare you a better doc
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: but the three oxes before me show links to to the plan
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: yeloow box is the plan
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: sim map
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: it is an iteration of Symo’s and Ulysse’s plan
[2008/05/31 11:21] Moon Adamant: it features 42 prims with a 2x prim multiplier, as requested
[2008/05/31 11:21] Moon Adamant: public prims is a little over 10%
[2008/05/31 11:21] Moon Adamant: and it agrees with the GMP
[2008/05/31 11:22] Moon Adamant: next, on teh orange box, you see the table that confirms the data that i have given you
[2008/05/31 11:22] Moon Adamant: and on the red box, are estimates on the sim financial viability calculated by rates
[2008/05/31 11:23] Moon Adamant: these, i feel, demand more discussion from the RA
[2008/05/31 11:23] Moon Adamant: it has been traditional that the RA sets the rate L$/m2 for each sim
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi thinks land will be free soon
[2008/05/31 11:24] Moon Adamant: any questions?
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/31 11:24] Sridhar Shepherd: Nice meeting u all have a nice day
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: the bottom is falling out of the land market
[2008/05/31 11:24] Moon Adamant: bye Sridhar
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: bye my friend
[2008/05/31 11:24] You: Ta Sridhar
[2008/05/31 11:25] You: hm
[2008/05/31 11:25] Moon Adamant: is that it?
[2008/05/31 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: well what about the land prices dropping.. 4l a sq meter
[2008/05/31 11:25] You: Moon, are there recommendations for pricing inherent in the projections?
[2008/05/31 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: and below
[2008/05/31 11:25] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/05/31 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: we saw land under 4l a sq m last week
[2008/05/31 11:25] You: I agree with Prin, we should set ou pricies wiht an eye to the market, not necessary just do what we always have done
[2008/05/31 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: 3.99 a sq meter last week
[2008/05/31 11:26] You: 🙂 and THEN see if we still break even
[2008/05/31 11:26] Moon Adamant: what i can answer is that for months people have been suggesting that there are scores of people wanting to join the RA
[2008/05/31 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: lol .. whoooaah nelly
[2008/05/31 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/05/31 11:26] Jamie Palisades shudders
[2008/05/31 11:26] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/05/31 11:26] Moon Adamant: and also, that the person who extimated these rates runs a very sucessfull commununity of 40 sims
[2008/05/31 11:26] Moon Adamant: CDS, pardon*
[2008/05/31 11:27] Flyingroc Chung: are we looking at monthly fees or purchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: true we are a higher value than mainland, but……. time has passed, a lot of time i might add.. and since then the land prices in sl have plummeted
[2008/05/31 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: the slowdown of the guild is costing us a lot
[2008/05/31 11:27] You: hm
[2008/05/31 11:27] Moon Adamant: slowdown?
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: the long time it has taken to get the sim out
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: if it had been done quickly
[2008/05/31 11:28] You: so these are Sudane’s numbers, Moon, just to be clear, yes?
[2008/05/31 11:28] Moon Adamant: yes, Jamie
[2008/05/31 11:28] Rose Springvale points out the only land for sale in cds is 2048 selleing for 60000
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: lol rose, land sold yesterday.
[2008/05/31 11:28] MT Lundquist: selling NOT bought
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: land sells very quickly in cds
[2008/05/31 11:28] You: hmmmm
[2008/05/31 11:28] You: so
[2008/05/31 11:28] Moon Adamant: Princess, planning time is not wasted time – this sim process has actually been much faster than any other sim in the CDS
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i havent seen anything stay on the market a week
[2008/05/31 11:29] Rose Springvale: just point of information. that’s all that’s for sale
[2008/05/31 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ty rose
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: Princess, i don’t understand you
[2008/05/31 11:29] Cindy Ecksol scratches head….if demand is so high, why the concern about pricing?
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: first you say the market is going down
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: then you say land sells very quickly in the CDS
[2008/05/31 11:29] Flyingroc Chung: will someone please answer my question? are we setting monthly rates, or the purchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i understand we have many forces in the market…. but prices are low now
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: so … where do we stand?
[2008/05/31 11:29] You: Let’s see. Before this gets into a disorganized wnadering chat — really it is our job to accept, or reject and change, the projected numbers and prices, yes? Is anyone proposing to change them?
[2008/05/31 11:29] Cindy Ecksol: we have to set both FR
[2008/05/31 11:30] Flyingroc Chung: and TP, is the $4/sqm number a monthly fee or pruchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the two factors interact thats all.
[2008/05/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely will second the opinion of the *experts* who have set the prices, and agrees with whatever the *experts* say.
[2008/05/31 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: purchase price
[2008/05/31 11:30] Moon Adamant: but not in contrary sense, as you imply
[2008/05/31 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who are the experts that set these prices
[2008/05/31 11:31] You: Roc, as I understand it, one outcome here is that we approve Su’s recommendations, suppored by the Guild, as to prices and rent. Another is that we change them. A third is that we punt and think more.
[2008/05/31 11:31] Flyingroc Chung: The price in the forums link looks like monthly fees, no?
[2008/05/31 11:31] Moon Adamant: i am seeing if the expert is around
[2008/05/31 11:32] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/05/31 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess, the prices are set by the Treasurer
[2008/05/31 11:32] Moon Adamant: not available atm
[2008/05/31 11:32] Flyingroc Chung: Sudane did *not* recommend a pruchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she did, FR, I haven’t seen it.
[2008/05/31 11:32] You: hmmm
[2008/05/31 11:33] You: we CAN approve the rent rates and leave it to Alexi and Sudane, if that is what we wish
[2008/05/31 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i don see the numbers .. sorry
[2008/05/31 11:33] You: … or say ‘set prices generally consistent with other CDS land bearing proportionately similar prim count” 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:33] Moon Adamant: pull down the page till Sudane’s post
[2008/05/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with either suggestion, so far as that means that we can go ahead and buy the sim? Please?
[2008/05/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty Please!
[2008/05/31 11:33] Flyingroc Chung: TP… viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&sid=31f4474e5d0a2c7fdff9ad1eeaf6b51f#p11319
[2008/05/31 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: the point of these sims were to get citizens that were able to live here that were not “rich”
[2008/05/31 11:34] Cindy Ecksol grins at sudane
[2008/05/31 11:34] Cindy Ecksol at gwyn…
[2008/05/31 11:34] Moon Adamant: but the RA voted a double multiplier
[2008/05/31 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: yes, lets keep it in the club
[2008/05/31 11:35] Moon Adamant: are you laughing about RA decisions?
[2008/05/31 11:35] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: will someone cut and paste the new numbers then cos i cant find it
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: same as CN?
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont see any numbers
[2008/05/31 11:35] You: ..um are the new numbers not in the colored boxes?
[2008/05/31 11:35] Moon Adamant: scroll back, FR posted them for you
[2008/05/31 11:36] Flyingroc Chung: sudane set 4 different options:
[2008/05/31 11:36] Flyingroc Chung: Rate = 2.133/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1092 and a 1024 parcel costs 2184 ) we make US$217/month… not enough. Rate = 2.986/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1528 and a 1024 parcel costs 3056 ) we make US303/month… just BARELY enough Using the 2x multiplier rates: Rate = 4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 ) we make US$434/month… a healthy margin Rate = 5.972/month ( a 512 parcel costs 3056 and a 1024 parcel costs 6112 ) we make US$606/month… a very healthy margin
[2008/05/31 11:36] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/05/31 11:36] Flyingroc Chung: ergh, sorry, new lines dont print out correctly anymore
[2008/05/31 11:36] Moon Adamant: what is important here is the political decision of the RA
[2008/05/31 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i see sorry
[2008/05/31 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: all our fault,
[2008/05/31 11:37] You: ah
[2008/05/31 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ok long as you know that right now i can buy a 512 for 2125
[2008/05/31 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: apples and oranges
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: but a point of reference
[2008/05/31 11:38] Flyingroc Chung: how much would you pay to *keep* that 512 for a month, tp?
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: our land is then worth five times what mainland is
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ten dollars a month
[2008/05/31 11:38] Moon Adamant: but our territory has a lot of charactheristics that mainland hasn’t
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: sure no doubt moon
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i understand that
[2008/05/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re not competing with the mainland, Princess, we never did
[2008/05/31 11:39] You: hmmmmm
[2008/05/31 11:39] You: so
[2008/05/31 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: thats not the point gywn
[2008/05/31 11:39] Flyingroc Chung: we dont know that we are setting it up as 5x the mainland because purchase price is not the same as monthly fees.
[2008/05/31 11:39] You: just to check for purposes of consistent action: We COULD, could we not, approve the PLAN (plat map) without approving rates yet?

[2008/05/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: yes
[2008/05/31 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i was wrong
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its more like 5 dollars a month
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its the cheapest linden acct that lets you own land
[2008/05/31 11:40] You: Knowing that the proposed rates demonstrate that it’s within feasible ranges
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: and a 512 is no added tier
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think they are still to o high………
[2008/05/31 11:40] You: Prin? What do you think we should do? I hear your concerns, but not how you think we should proceed
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think these prices are too high
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: id like a single prim proposal
[2008/05/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/05/31 11:41] Moon Adamant: the rates are decided by the RA
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: can you do that in a week
[2008/05/31 11:41] You: hmmmm
[2008/05/31 11:41] Moon Adamant: no
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: delete delete delete
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CN: 512 sqm parcels = between L$1092 and 1528 / month. Now, on the mainland, you pay US6/month, or L$1620
[2008/05/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for single-prim
[2008/05/31 11:41] Moon Adamant: and in fact, you already have
[2008/05/31 11:42] Moon Adamant: Using the 1x multiplier rates, like on CN: Rate = 2.133/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1092 and a 1024 parcel costs 2184 ) we make US$217/month… not enough. Rate = 2.986/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1528 and a 1024 parcel costs 3056 ) we make US303/month… just BARELY enough
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: 7.05 dollars a month
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: the money disappears from what i can tell anyway
[2008/05/31 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: US$72 for yearly Premium accounts
[2008/05/31 11:42] Moon Adamant: you see that with 1* multiplier, you can’t pay the sim
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: apparently theres no money for the guided tour
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: you dont have money to reimburse me for the christmas party
[2008/05/31 11:42] Sonja Strom: Maybe we could start out with these suggested rates, and see how they work.
[2008/05/31 11:42] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and i get yelled at when im a few hours late
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway, I move a motion to vote on the plan *today*, and to order the sim *now*
[2008/05/31 11:43] Cindy Ecksol: ok…. the “premium account” rate is $10 per month. and that’s for single-prim land. Our “double prim” price is less than $10 US per month….how is that “too much”?
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: until it’s built, we can discuss it further
[2008/05/31 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: so where is all the money we make i think we need to get our house in order like salzie sayds
[2008/05/31 11:43] Sonja Strom: We could adjust them later.
[2008/05/31 11:43] MT Lundquist: 84.60 gwyn if you pay VAT
[2008/05/31 11:43] Flyingroc Chung: I think that $2.986/sq/month is fairly cheap for double prims…
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah yes, MT, you’re right on that!)
[2008/05/31 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: well for the elite it will work FR
[2008/05/31 11:43] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/31 11:43] Moon Adamant: notice the following
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we’re actually cheaper than the mainland what’s the problem then?
[2008/05/31 11:43] Moon Adamant: Using the 2x multiplier rates:
[2008/05/31 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: but it is a damn shame that we cant build a sim that a newbie or someone that isnt fricken rich can own
[2008/05/31 11:43] Moon Adamant: Rate = 4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 ) we make US$434/month… a healthy margin
[2008/05/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and does anyone second my motion on voting for the plan now and authorising the Estate Owner to order a new sim?)
[2008/05/31 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gwyn get real
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: this means that we almost get the double of what the sim costs us per month
[2008/05/31 11:44] Cindy Ecksol: exactly…2184 is less than $10 US per month…!!
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: perhaps that rate can be lowered
[2008/05/31 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry i have to go
[2008/05/31 11:44] You: …. I have a process suggestion 🙂 I think I have heard NO opposition to the plat map – and GENERAL agreement that this is feasible – and only some moderate plans about possible fiddling with the pricing. SO: let me ask our designated experts. Moon, is it sensible, from a planning perspective, to approve the Sim purchase and map BEFORE we have final prices? Or not?
[2008/05/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:44] You: I missed that as a motion Gwyn, sorry 🙂 I second it. Can Moon tell us if the Guild would have a problem with proceeding that way (“buy now, price soon”)
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: Jamie yes
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: you can always fiddle with prices
[2008/05/31 11:44] You: OK
[2008/05/31 11:45] Flyingroc Chung: I think it comes out to about $5-$6 usd a month for double-prim 512 plot?
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: Motion and second 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:45] Rose Springvale: yay!
[2008/05/31 11:45] Moon Adamant: hmm, that’s promo area in which i am not very good at
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, can you stay another 3 minutes to have a vote on this?
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: Prin, if you have to go, can you give us a take on that motion before you do?
[2008/05/31 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: jinx gwynnie
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: OK, then, sorry, have a good weekend
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, enjoy the weekend.
[2008/05/31 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: no ill stay
[2008/05/31 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: Any more discussion on the motion made by Gwyn?
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: (“buy now, price next week or two”)
[2008/05/31 11:46] Flyingroc Chung: The motion is that we buy the sim now, and argue over the price later?
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: actually
[2008/05/31 11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR yes.
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: (is that a fair bumper sticker version?)
[2008/05/31 11:46] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: i have one thing to say
[2008/05/31 11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: whoooot
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: ok – Moon?
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: we still have to discuss covenants for this sim
[2008/05/31 11:46] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: while the building of the sim is quick
[2008/05/31 11:47] Flyingroc Chung: ok then I vote aye on going ahead and getting the sim.
[2008/05/31 11:47] You: wasn’t that something the Guild drafted, in the past?
[2008/05/31 11:47] Cindy Ecksol would like to speak on this motion
[2008/05/31 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: no swingsets or flying cardinals
[2008/05/31 11:47] You: Ok Cin, after Moon finished
[2008/05/31 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: or red chairs
[2008/05/31 11:47] Moon Adamant: the discussion of covenants can take a bit more
[2008/05/31 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: oh .. that could take a LONG time!
[2008/05/31 11:47] Rose Springvale: only took a week for AM, but we worked hard
[2008/05/31 11:48] Moon Adamant: well, not really, because we have a lot of models now, also BAC to approve
[2008/05/31 11:48] You: and Moon’s point is, I assume, that we MUST have the covs as a precondition to opening for sale
[2008/05/31 11:48] Moon Adamant: so i would propose instead that sim buying, which is instantaneous now, would occur after covenants are approved at this RA
[2008/05/31 11:48] Moon Adamant: yes, of course
[2008/05/31 11:48] You: oh HO
[2008/05/31 11:48] You: Moon
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: you just completely changed position, or am I losing the meaning here
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: ?
[2008/05/31 11:49] Flyingroc Chung: does the guild have a draft covenant?
[2008/05/31 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: She did 🙁
[2008/05/31 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 11:49] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: well 🙂 I plan to call it for a vote anyway
[2008/05/31 11:49] Moon Adamant: we will draw heavily n AM and CN covenants – i’ll call a wg for tomorrow on that
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: Moon finishes (quickly please), then Cindy is in queue, then can we vote?
[2008/05/31 11:49] Moon Adamant: but please vote the plan and the numbers
[2008/05/31 11:50] You: umm
[2008/05/31 11:50] Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to speak first jamie
[2008/05/31 11:50] You: Moon – the “numbers” includes rent rates but not purchase prices, correct?
[2008/05/31 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: lol… omg
[2008/05/31 11:50] Moon Adamant: while rates and covenants are thought over
[2008/05/31 11:50] You: when you say “please approve the numbers”, you mean which numbers, exactly?
[2008/05/31 11:50] Moon Adamant: no, when i say ‘numbers’ i say the list of plots and areas, also proportion between private and public prims
[2008/05/31 11:51] Moon Adamant: that’s the orange box
[2008/05/31 11:51] You: OK
[2008/05/31 11:51] You: got it
[2008/05/31 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: wb beathan
[2008/05/31 11:51] You: that seems to be really part of the same material as the map, got it
[2008/05/31 11:51] Moon Adamant: call it Sim Plan Table
[2008/05/31 11:51] Moon Adamant: yes, it expands the map
[2008/05/31 11:52] You: Gwyn, can I assume that the “land size” numnbers are a part of your “approve now” motion?
[2008/05/31 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Totally.
[2008/05/31 11:52] Moon Adamant: for reference
[2008/05/31 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you can assume that we will use the “general covenants for the CDS” 😉
[2008/05/31 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which we DO have)
[2008/05/31 11:52] Moon Adamant: both sim plan and sim table have been posted by Ulysse at …
[2008/05/31 11:52] Moon Adamant: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&sid=31f4474e5d0a2c7fdff9ad1eeaf6b51f#p11300
[2008/05/31 11:52] You: OK 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:53] You: CIndy? you had a comment on the motion?
[2008/05/31 11:53] Cindy Ecksol: yes.
[2008/05/31 11:53] Cindy Ecksol: I would like to speak against the motion.
[2008/05/31 11:53] Jamie Palisades listens
[2008/05/31 11:53] Cindy Ecksol: there is plenty of information here that demonstrates that the numbers are both fiscally sound and that they are appropriate in the market
[2008/05/31 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/31 11:54] Cindy Ecksol: actually, I think we’ve seen that they are BETTER than market prices.
[2008/05/31 11:54] Cindy Ecksol: to approve the purchase of the sim yet not approve the pricing is a ticket to fiscal disaster: this body is not known for acting quickly, and that could leave CDS on the hook for a sim that no one can agree how to price
[2008/05/31 11:54] Cindy Ecksol: I’d encourage the RA to vote down this motion and introduce another one to pass both the platt and the pricing
[2008/05/31 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2008/05/31 11:55] You: 🙂 I have an amendment to propose in response to Cindy’s concerns – when she is done
[2008/05/31 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:55] You: Done Cindy?
[2008/05/31 11:55] Flyingroc Chung: The problem is, there isn’t one pricing number. Let’s get what can be done now.
[2008/05/31 11:55] Flyingroc Chung: given that we have 5 minutes left.
[2008/05/31 11:56] Flyingroc Chung: and setting pricing policy instantaneously would be not be a wise thing to do
[2008/05/31 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: i move to wait like cindy says
[2008/05/31 11:56] You: I move we amend Gwyn’s motion to accept the financial rates in the red box and as projected & proposed by Sudane (which FR gave us pointers to, in this chat) – at the lowest of the four options presented – UNLESS the RA acts within 30 days from today to change them 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:56] Moon Adamant: you can vote the plan and sim table
[2008/05/31 11:56] You: Prin, no motion needed to do that – just vote against the main motion 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:56] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/31 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: lets hear rose
[2008/05/31 11:56] Moon Adamant: and ask for a more detailed price rate
[2008/05/31 11:56] Cindy Ecksol raises hand again
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: And I have moved that we choose now, but give it 30 days to change before it goes ‘final’
[2008/05/31 11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie’s suggestion, no objections from me
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: so let’s see if anyone seconds that –
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: thanks
[2008/05/31 11:57] Rose Springvale withdraws
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: Now Rose, then Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: No, Rose?
[2008/05/31 11:57] Moon Adamant: you will see that Sudane says also that it’s not usual that all plots have the same rate… and we have rates with sea views, etc
[2008/05/31 11:57] Rose Springvale: no, thanks
[2008/05/31 11:57] Flyingroc Chung: which of sudane’s pricing rates are we approving?
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: Lowest of the options – UNLESS we change it w/in 30 days FR
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: Cindy, then Moon please
[2008/05/31 11:58] Cindy Ecksol: I think the RA would be foolish to approve Sudane’s lowest rates — she points out that they wold result in a BARELY maintainable fiscal situation.
[2008/05/31 11:58] Moon Adamant: agree
[2008/05/31 11:58] Cindy Ecksol: approve the middle rate with the 30-day proviso….
[2008/05/31 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agree
[2008/05/31 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i am concerned of the look of useing sudanes pricing it makes it looks as if we are dealing with sudanes money
[2008/05/31 11:58] Flyingroc Chung: Jamie, then I object, the lowest option is fiscally unsound.
[2008/05/31 11:58] Moon Adamant: sorry guys
[2008/05/31 11:58] You: OK, how about we modify it to middle rate 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and the market priceing are droppoing
[2008/05/31 11:59] Flyingroc Chung: which of the middle rates?
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: and ARE we not in SL
[2008/05/31 11:59] Cindy Ecksol: it is fiscally sound and the 30-day option offers the possibility of changing if further analysis makes it prudent
[2008/05/31 11:59] Moon Adamant: i think we all agree that charging 1*multiplier is fiscally unsound, right?
[2008/05/31 11:59] Rose Springvale: have to go. bye all, good luck!
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: overall land prices in sl are dropping not going up
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: bye rose
[2008/05/31 11:59] Moon Adamant: Prin, you said just a while ago that land in the CDS sells well
[2008/05/31 11:59] Moon Adamant: so decide yourself
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: that doesnt mean that prices are not dropping moon
[2008/05/31 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: it sells well, but unlike anyone in the room i think have sold cds land lately
[2008/05/31 12:00] Moon Adamant: it means that you are comparing apples and organges
[2008/05/31 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: oh sudane sold one that i sold
[2008/05/31 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To be consistent with myself, I’d NEVER compete with *prices* but with *services*, but that is a whole new discussion…
[2008/05/31 12:00] You: ok. I move to change my amendment to refer to the middle range, which for clarity is the second highest
[2008/05/31 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: she bought and sold it for the same price .. and i sold it for her
[2008/05/31 12:00] You: that better?
[2008/05/31 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: Rate = 4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 ) ?
[2008/05/31 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (2x multiplier)
[2008/05/31 12:00] Moon Adamant: even yesterday i had to go fix a door for a new resident in NFS….
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: I assume so, but for official purposes, the second highest of the stated alternatives
[2008/05/31 12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: did you sell the land moon
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: you seconding that?
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: heh
[2008/05/31 12:01] Flyingroc Chung: can we vote on going ahead with the plan, and pricing later? I can’t vote aye on the rate, sorry.
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: ok let’s bring it to a vote & vote no on the rate then 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i cannot vote on anything that isn’t complete
[2008/05/31 12:01] Moon Adamant: no, i just set the door, but he was a new resident
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: but
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i will abstain
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: My amendment to amendment dies for lack of second 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes but you dont know how much the land is selling for
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: we are back to my amendment (G seconded) to use lowest of four rates in 30 says
[2008/05/31 12:02] Sonja Strom: second Jamie
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: and
[2008/05/31 12:02] Moon Adamant: Prin, not my concern – RA’s
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: cindy spoke against it
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:02] ThePrincess Parisi: we need it all clear………and strangely i agree with cindy on that
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: let’s vote on it (a yes vote sets rate, a no vote omits rates for now). I vote no.
[2008/05/31 12:02] Beathan Vale: no
[2008/05/31 12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: members plase state your votes on the amendment
[2008/05/31 12:02] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/31 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote nay, I want the 2nd highest rates lol
[2008/05/31 12:03] ThePrincess Parisi: abstain
[2008/05/31 12:03] MT Lundquist: i mean yes
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: (shoulda seconded me then 🙂 )
[2008/05/31 12:03] MT Lundquist: sorry misunderstood
[2008/05/31 12:03] Flyingroc Chung: I vote nay, I want a rate closer to 3.25$/sq/month
[2008/05/31 12:03] ThePrincess Parisi: does that mean buy the sim and not know the rates
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: I have 5 no, 1 yes, 1 abstain
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: amendment fails 1-5-1
[2008/05/31 12:03] Moon Adamant: so Mr LRA
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: back to unamended main motion
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: which is
[2008/05/31 12:03] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/05/31 12:04] You: To approve land map and land numbers
[2008/05/31 12:04] You: 🙂 any more talkytalk on this way over time item?
[2008/05/31 12:04] Moon Adamant: no no
[2008/05/31 12:04] Moon Adamant: carry on
[2008/05/31 12:04] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: so we are buying a sim with no done financials
[2008/05/31 12:04] You: Ready for a vote y’all? Comfortable with knowing what we are asked to approve?
[2008/05/31 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: is that what you just did?
[2008/05/31 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry i am confused
[2008/05/31 12:05] MT Lundquist: i’m not yet clear
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/31 12:05] Moon Adamant: the motion is just to approve Land map and land table
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just that for now.
[2008/05/31 12:05] You: I think Cindy would agree with you, Prin (smile), but to my eye, we DO have a set of proof-of concept-financials – we just are not finalizing them yet
[2008/05/31 12:05] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/31 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: but NOT purchase
[2008/05/31 12:05] You: um .. ?
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll add a new motion after that one… 😉 but let’s vote on “just the map and table”
[2008/05/31 12:05] Flyingroc Chung: We are about to vote on: “Let’s approve the plan and the number of aprcels, and talk about reasonable pricing next time”
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait wait
[2008/05/31 12:05] MT Lundquist: does this approve purchase
[2008/05/31 12:06] MT Lundquist: or not?
[2008/05/31 12:06] Moon Adamant: no, MT
[2008/05/31 12:06] Cindy Ecksol thinks that motion originally included the purchase
[2008/05/31 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but that means we BUY it and dont know what it will be sold for?T
[2008/05/31 12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s have “map & parcels first ”
[2008/05/31 12:06] Jamie Palisades agrees with FR, and NO Linden purchase authorization in this motion
[2008/05/31 12:06] Moon Adamant: just the drawing and the table
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: OK
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: ready to vote?
[2008/05/31 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i will vote aye for maps but not to purchase
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: then you can vote yes on this one safely 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: Members please state your vote. I vote aye.
[2008/05/31 12:06] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/31 12:06] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/31 12:06] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/05/31 12:07] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: BROMO
[2008/05/31 12:07] MT Lundquist: hi bromo
[2008/05/31 12:07] Moon Adamant: hi Bromo
[2008/05/31 12:07] Bromo Ivory waves
[2008/05/31 12:07] You: Prin abstains? OK Approved 6-0-1 and thank you to the Guild (and Ulysse, Symo & Moon) for the work.
[2008/05/31 12:07] You: now
[2008/05/31 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/05/31 12:07] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/05/31 12:07] Justice Soothsayer: bye all
[2008/05/31 12:07] You: 7-0-0 then 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt abstain on this one
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: Got it thx Prin
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: hm
[2008/05/31 12:08] Moon Adamant: we will try to refine the rates, and hopefully bring you covenants asap
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: we are over time
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to add a second motion, because I fear that we’ll discuss pricing endlessly, and I’d prefer to “test the RA” with a proposal.
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if we’re over time…
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: Moon, shoudl we look to Guild as the source of a rates recommendation?
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm no, the rates are set by the Treasurer
[2008/05/31 12:08] Beathan Vale: election committee meeting to follow — last before I draft a proposal, I think
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: way over – but let me ask, what else memebrs wish to take up for today.
[2008/05/31 12:08] Moon Adamant: well, the Guild member who has proposed the rates is also the treasurer with another hat
[2008/05/31 12:08] Cindy Ecksol thinking what is wrong with the recommendation the guild already presented???
[2008/05/31 12:08] Beathan Vale: although we will meet to discuss the proposal
[2008/05/31 12:09] Flyingroc Chung: The recommendation was ambigous, cindy
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: Ahem, grin
[2008/05/31 12:09] Moon Adamant: mind two points
[2008/05/31 12:09] Flyingroc Chung: there were 4 rates, and we dont agree on which one is the best way to go
[2008/05/31 12:09] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I propose that we *vote* on it.
[2008/05/31 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, Mr LRA, if we have time…
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: do we wish to take up agenda items 2 or 5 or 6 or 8, or adjourn?
[2008/05/31 12:09] Moon Adamant: one: there has been talk to establish similar rates acrross teh sims – tehse rates reflect that
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: psst
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: ..
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: ..
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: ..
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: multiple threads here
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose a motion, voting on the 2nd highest rate NOW (4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 )), 2x prims
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Moon, please wait
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Moon
[2008/05/31 12:10] Moon Adamant: plus, a sim can have different rates according to zones – seashore plots can be costlier
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Gwyn is making a motion 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:10] Moon Adamant: sorry Gwyn
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe. Sorry Moon
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Let’s keep this going, and see. I second it.
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Disussion?
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I wasn’t finished,
[2008/05/31 12:10] Jamie Palisades listens
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the motion also encompasses two further things:
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) That if the rate is approved, the sim is purchased immediately
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) That the covenants ruling the 4th sim uses the General CDS Covenant
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we can spend the rest of the month discussing any changes… but at least we’d have a sim *now*
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it. Thanks.
[2008/05/31 12:11] You: hm
[2008/05/31 12:11] You: your #1 seems conditional
[2008/05/31 12:12] Moon Adamant: *sighs*
[2008/05/31 12:12] You: you are actually simply saying we DO purchase now, if your motion passes, right?
[2008/05/31 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/05/31 12:12] You: fine. I renew my second.
[2008/05/31 12:12] You: Discussion?
[2008/05/31 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for the bad wording. Yes, the motion is to 1) approve a rate; 2) purchase sim; 3) use general covenants
[2008/05/31 12:12] Flyingroc Chung: second highest rate is too expensive
[2008/05/31 12:12] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and the lowest wont make money
[2008/05/31 12:13] Cindy Ecksol: second highest rate is less than single prim mainlaind with a premium account!
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no it isnt cindy
[2008/05/31 12:13] You: 🙂 In your opinion FR
[2008/05/31 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Cindy 🙂 Yes, indeed it is.
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: are you kidding
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: it is NOT
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the cost of the land is NOT
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: its five times mainland
[2008/05/31 12:13] You: we are discussing the motion, heh – OK so you two disagree. Let’s leave it there
[2008/05/31 12:13] Moon Adamant still has hand in the air
[2008/05/31 12:13] Cindy Ecksol: premium account is $10US per month. $2166L is less than that
[2008/05/31 12:13] You: I would find it helpful if people would say they support, or oppose, the motion, or ask questions :D[2008/05/31 12:13] Flyingroc Chung: In my opinion, jamie. If I had to pay that price a few years ago, I would never have joined the cds
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear flying rock
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but the cost to buy it is higher cindy
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: a LOT higher
[2008/05/31 12:14] You: Thank FR that’s pertinent – can you finish, then Moon, then others, please
[2008/05/31 12:14] Cindy Ecksol: this motion does not set the cost to “buy”
[2008/05/31 12:14] Cindy Ecksol: just the montly tier
[2008/05/31 12:14] Jamie Palisades thinks that’s correct
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but the monthly tier isn’t the only thing, and its relative to that
[2008/05/31 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, because I can’t find the cost to buy….
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: you cannot look at them separately
[2008/05/31 12:15] You: 🙂 I think that FR and Prin have spoken against the motion
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: when you buy a house, do you only look at the monthly and not the downpayment
[2008/05/31 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m fine in having an amendment setting the cost to buy too 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: come on .. they have to be looked at togehr
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we MUST have them in one poacle
[2008/05/31 12:15] Cindy Ecksol: yes, you CAN (and should!) look at them separately. as Sudane points out, the tier is the most important — buying cost is not a big deal
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOOO
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: no one buys land and only pays one
[2008/05/31 12:15] Cindy Ecksol: we have the cash to buy…what we need is CASH FLOW (tier)
[2008/05/31 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, let’s propose a cost to buy then.
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: if the cost to buy is too high, the tier is irrelevant
[2008/05/31 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess, what would you suggest as a cost to buy?
[2008/05/31 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: no one will pay tier if they cant buy the darn land
[2008/05/31 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *buy sorry
[2008/05/31 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well i think it should be set with the proposal
[2008/05/31 12:16] You: Myself I have to agree with Prin 🙂 buying cost seems like a bigger deal to some kinds of prospective citizens — perhaps less to the big-holdings landed gentry of CDS 😀 — but this is just my personal opinion
[2008/05/31 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: im not the land expert it seems
[2008/05/31 12:16] Cindy Ecksol: purchase price can be set between now and availability. tier needs to be agreed on now
[2008/05/31 12:16] Cindy Ecksol: you are not the financial expert
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: though I am OK with setting it later, I’m pretty sure that the price of purchase is important
[2008/05/31 12:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i disagree that they can be looked at separately
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: ok 🙂 does anyone ELSE have new comments?
[2008/05/31 12:17] Moon Adamant: me?
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: Please 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggest L$5k per 512 plot as cost to buy.
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: Moon has the floor, hm?
[2008/05/31 12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry.
[2008/05/31 12:17] Moon Adamant: ok, The NG has a series of projects related to new sim
[2008/05/31 12:18] Moon Adamant: such as quality in building, packs of textures, etc
[2008/05/31 12:18] Moon Adamant: it’s just possible that some of these project won’t be complete when new owners enter the sin
[2008/05/31 12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds the assembly that NFS is not even completed (Altenstadt is missing!) and that never prevented us to sell plots in NFS since 2006
[2008/05/31 12:19] Beathan Vale: Uh oh — something has come up — and I need to run
[2008/05/31 12:19] Sonja Strom: ok Beathan – later!
[2008/05/31 12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you later, Beathan!
[2008/05/31 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or tomorrow…
[2008/05/31 12:20] Moon Adamant: see you Beathan! 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:20] Beathan Vale: I recommend that anyone interested in the election committee post on and respond to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1858
[2008/05/31 12:20] MT Lundquist: bye beathan
[2008/05/31 12:20] Beathan Vale: and feel free to pan and criticize Pat’s proposal — lol 😉
[2008/05/31 12:20] Beathan Vale: bye all
[2008/05/31 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LRA, can I make a suggestion on the cost price?
[2008/05/31 12:20] ThePrincess Parisi: lol bye bv
[2008/05/31 12:20] Flyingroc Chung: I’d like to say something about setting tier when everyone’s done.
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie?
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: mm hmm
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who’s next? 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: im tired
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: hm Gwyn then FR I think
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: this is hard
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good.
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: (it sure is Prin)
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: im going
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… bear with me for 5 minutes
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: bye
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
[2008/05/31 12:22] Jamie Palisades waves – thanks for sticking with us
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if MT goes too,
[2008/05/31 12:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yall take care
[2008/05/31 12:22] ThePrincess Parisi: hes going
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s pointless to waste my breath
[2008/05/31 12:22] MT Lundquist: i am sorry
[2008/05/31 12:22] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/31 12:22] You: It’s late for MT
[2008/05/31 12:22] MT Lundquist: it was already a late one
[2008/05/31 12:22] You: And we are 22 minutes over
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, I was just trying to get us a 4th sim this year.
[2008/05/31 12:22] You: Gwyn, we’re on record, my suggestion is that you make your point 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s simple
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the island costs US$1000
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or about L$270000
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13877 prims are available
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, cost per prim is 19.45
[2008/05/31 12:23] Flyingroc Chung: per prim?
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 512 m2 plots at 2x have 234 prims
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so,
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the cost of the 512 m2 is L$4551.30
[2008/05/31 12:24] Moon Adamant: easier to think in prims than in areas if you’re using multipliers, FR
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Moon’s right)
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I suggest a bit of margin over that
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 10% should be ok, since the L$ doesn’t fluctuate wildly
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and set the cost of a 512 m2 plot as reference on L$ 5k
[2008/05/31 12:24] You: Gwyn we view that as our “average breakeven price”, then, hm?
[2008/05/31 12:25] You: (assuming the approved prim count for this sim, of course, which affects it)
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I couldn’t find the proposed cost of plots
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Jamie, to an extent)
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I was suggesting it as an amendment to the motion
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: add as a reference the cost of L$5000 per 512 m2 plot
[2008/05/31 12:26] Moon Adamant: and L$10 k for the 1024?
[2008/05/31 12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, now we can hear FR’s objections on tier 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Moon)
[2008/05/31 12:26] Flyingroc Chung: ok, two things, first is that we seem to be conflating the one-time cost of buying the sim
[2008/05/31 12:26] Flyingroc Chung: to the ongoing cost of paying for its monthly upkeep
[2008/05/31 12:27] Flyingroc Chung: *and* the one-time(ish) revenue of purchasing a plot, and the ongoing revenue of tier
[2008/05/31 12:27] Flyingroc Chung: What I’m looking at, sudane’s 2nd highest tier rate,
[2008/05/31 12:28] Flyingroc Chung: revenue is over 30% the monthly cost of the server
[2008/05/31 12:28] Flyingroc Chung: and jaime’s gone, lol
[2008/05/31 12:29] Moon Adamant: do you think that’s automatic adjournement?
[2008/05/31 12:29] Flyingroc Chung: but still, unless we know what to do with the extra revenue, I don’t think we should tax the people that much higher than what we are spending on it.
[2008/05/31 12:29] Moon Adamant: and i hope he has saved the transcripts
[2008/05/31 12:29] Moon Adamant: Gwyn, better save them
[2008/05/31 12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re also aiming for 70% or so occupation
[2008/05/31 12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes hehe)
[2008/05/31 12:30] Flyingroc Chung: Well, I would suggest something more concrete then. Right now, I dont know if the numbers make actual sense
[2008/05/31 12:30] Moon Adamant: we’ll see what we can do
[2008/05/31 12:30] Flyingroc Chung: by numbers, I mean the prices 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:30] Moon Adamant: but busy month for the guild…
[2008/05/31 12:31] Cindy Ecksol: FR, the “purchase price” is kind of irrelevant as long as the tier is set properly.
[2008/05/31 12:31] Moon Adamant: nad he’s back!
[2008/05/31 12:31] Flyingroc Chung: Cindy, purchase price needs to offset the cost of buying the server
[2008/05/31 12:31] You: Sorry, utterly unexpected crash
[2008/05/31 12:31] Sonja Strom: really? in SL?
[2008/05/31 12:31] Sonja Strom: 😉
[2008/05/31 12:31] You: heh
[2008/05/31 12:31] Cindy Ecksol: that’s why the tier SHOULD be 30% or more above what we have to pay to Linden — eventually that overage will account for any shortfall in selling the property and also cover “underoccupancy”
[2008/05/31 12:31] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/31 12:32] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:32] Moon Adamant: my dear people
[2008/05/31 12:32] You: Gwyn, I missed about 3 minutes of chat there
[2008/05/31 12:32] Flyingroc Chung: otherwise, we’ll ahve to set the tier price higher to amortize the cost of buying the server
[2008/05/31 12:32] Cindy Ecksol: yes….that’s WHY we set the tier a bit higher than we have to….
[2008/05/31 12:32] Moon Adamant: before my mother commits daughter murder
[2008/05/31 12:32] You: was a motion eventually made? If so I have missed it
[2008/05/31 12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:32] Cindy Ecksol: as Prin pointed out, the land has to SELL at a “market rate”
[2008/05/31 12:33] You: 🙂 to be continued next week, then?
[2008/05/31 12:33] Flyingroc Chung: well then by how much is it reaonable to set it higher? We dont know if we don’t know what the purchase price of a parcel is
[2008/05/31 12:33] You: If we are done, as I suspect is the case, I waill ask to make a brief announcement
[2008/05/31 12:33] Flyingroc Chung: also, when the cost of the server is paid off, do we automatically reduce the tier cost?
[2008/05/31 12:33] Cindy Ecksol: no, we don’t — we use it finance th enext sim….
[2008/05/31 12:33] You: Roc? an end to it for now? Sorry
[2008/05/31 12:33] Moon Adamant: so, good bye everyone
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: Thanks again Moon
[2008/05/31 12:34] Sonja Strom: bye Moon
[2008/05/31 12:34] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/05/31 12:34] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂 ok, pax!
—-
[2008/05/31 12:34] Moon Adamant: Jamie, thanks for chairing, and thanks to everyone 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: and my announcement is simply to remind people to donate to Rose’s auction
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: on – um – the 6th I think
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: and attend!
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:34] Moon Adamant: 8th
[2008/05/31 12:34] Moon Adamant: bye! 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: and hm – next week: Chancellor – and MAYBE more sim 4 motions? – and other items
[2008/05/31 12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I hope to get a gew…
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: Are we ok to adjourn? WE are quorate, after all
[2008/05/31 12:35] Flyingroc Chung: I’d suggest putting this high up in the agenda
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: This being sim4?
[2008/05/31 12:35] Flyingroc Chung: and let’s adjourn
[2008/05/31 12:35] Flyingroc Chung: I’m hungry
[2008/05/31 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: heh
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: So Gwyn
[2008/05/31 12:35] Sonja Strom: lol FR
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: 🙂 have your cabaret pictures ready for auction donation yet?
[2008/05/31 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
[2008/05/31 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think I have any 😉
[2008/05/31 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/05/31 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m lying, I do!!!
[2008/05/31 12:36] You: hey, what price WOULDN’T they fetch? 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:36] Flyingroc Chung: I think I do too
[2008/05/31 12:36] Flyingroc Chung: gwyn’s cabaret pictures, I mean
[2008/05/31 12:37] You: I will just leave it at “I’m speechless”
[2008/05/31 12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/31 12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good old times!!
[2008/05/31 12:37] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[2008/05/31 12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon did the hats 😉
[2008/05/31 12:38] Flyingroc Chung: oh man
[2008/05/31 12:39] You: We’re adjourned
—-
[2008/05/31 12:39] Flyingroc Chung: a time before scultpies
[2008/05/31 12:39] You: … and in shock, but still, adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 07, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:

1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 0900 – 09h20)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
[None expected]

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

2. CDS Sim4 (40 mins: 09h20 – 10h00)
— Proposed covenants
— Proposed pricing
— Sim name
3. Commerce Commission recommendations (10 mins.: 10h00 – 10h10)
— Drafts expected, carried over from last week, see transcript

NEW ITEMS

4. Chancellor’s report (35 mins.: 10h10 – 10h45)
5. Other?
6. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 12h00

Transcript

====
Transcript of 07 June 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/06/07 8:56] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Avilion%20Grove/160/133/43
[2008/06/07 8:57] You: Good morning Danton. How are you?
[2008/06/07 8:57] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie
[2008/06/07 8:58] Danton Sideways: Alright and you?
[2008/06/07 8:58] Danton Sideways: Hi Pat
[2008/06/07 8:58] Patroklus Murakami: hi 🙂
[2008/06/07 8:58] You: Good, thanks. Hi Pat. Retreating into IM for a moment 🙂 ‘scuse me
[2008/06/07 9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi all!
[2008/06/07 9:01] MT Lundquist: hi all
[2008/06/07 9:01] Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn mt 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:01] Danton Sideways: Hi MT, hi Gwyn
[2008/06/07 9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *Waves*
[2008/06/07 9:01] MT Lundquist: hi gywn
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiii MT
[2008/06/07 9:02] You: Good morning. I just sent off the obvious IMs and TP invites.
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I know — I should have been in touch with you, MT 🙁 Sorry about that
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good morning, Jamie 😉
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wakie-wakie call? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:02] You: quite a few actually
[2008/06/07 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drag those lazy RA members into the meeting 😀
[2008/06/07 9:03] You: Now let’s see. Did we get any official regrets for today?
[2008/06/07 9:04] You: No, no, Gwyn, wiser heads have told me that all RA memebers are just the instruments of their factions 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn is just a ‘bot of the CSDF
[2008/06/07 9:04] You: so If they dont show up presumably we talk to their estemeed faction leaders eh?
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh btw… I’m afraid I won’t be able to make it next Saturday at this time 🙁 At 8 AM I’ll be doing a book signing event iRL *sighs*
[2008/06/07 9:04] Patroklus Murakami: book signing? ooh! do tell
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should, Mr LRA
[2008/06/07 9:04] MT Lundquist: whats the book gwyn
[2008/06/07 9:05] You: hmmm a Gwynbot .. how … disturbing 🙂 yeah, what’s the book?
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, pfft, I don’t even want to discuss that lol
[2008/06/07 9:05] You: 1001 uses for smoking animations?
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just one of several co-authors… the organiser of the anthology is a personal friend who *insisted* that I contributed to it
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now, *that* would be something I’d much prefer to do!
[2008/06/07 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 9:06] Jamie Palisades smiles and notes we are not yet quorate.
[2008/06/07 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles back and patiently waits
[2008/06/07 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn tries to get some citizens here too…
[2008/06/07 9:07] Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moonie 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:07] MT Lundquist: hi moon
[2008/06/07 9:07] You: I’m not yet ready to panic if we miss one or two – so far since I joined and have been watching, RA members have been pretty good about quorum and attending.
[2008/06/07 9:07] You: Good day Madame Guild Secretary 😀
[2008/06/07 9:07] Danton Sideways: Hi Moon
[2008/06/07 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 9:08] You: You longtimers maybe can tell me – has CDS RA had many (SC-like, heh heh) dryspells where there are persistent quorum problems?
[2008/06/07 9:09] Patroklus Murakami: yes :0
[2008/06/07 9:09] Patroklus Murakami: almost every term
[2008/06/07 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes.
[2008/06/07 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would a CDS institution be without a quorum problem? 😀
[2008/06/07 9:09] Patroklus Murakami: it’s been better recently, but I remember when most RA meetings were inquorate after about the third month
[2008/06/07 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pat
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ve been quite lucky so far!
[2008/06/07 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: ppl losing interest is the usual problem
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, well, not having time
[2008/06/07 9:10] You: have weekly (versus biweekly) meetings been the usual? I myself see a little fatigue setting in with this lot
[2008/06/07 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: the last two or three RAs have been unusual in meeting most weeks
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: December meetings, for instance, are usually very very hard
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes, weekly is best
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would even like more per week…. hehe
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or we won’t ever get anything done!…
[2008/06/07 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: well, fortnightly meetings used to be the norm, but they tend to fall into inquoracy more quickly
[2008/06/07 9:11] You: ah
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat, you’re also quite right on that
[2008/06/07 9:11] Patroklus Murakami: weekly is better for keeping everyone on board
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “is this the day we meet, or next week? oops”
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s what usually happens
[2008/06/07 9:11] You: more meetings = more shots at making quorum, so to speak?
[2008/06/07 9:11] You: 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, a trade-off, Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: once per week is ok for most people
[2008/06/07 9:11] Patroklus Murakami: it just becomes the rhythm so is easier to maintain
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, so we can plan ahead
[2008/06/07 9:12] You: I have FlyingRoc, Sonja, ThePrincess and Beathan as still offline
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: awee Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:12] Patroklus Murakami: gwyn’s point is a good one, ppl become confused easily if meetings are fortnightly
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if they think we’re meeting today at 10 AM, like last weekend?…
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, *I* get confused all the time — lol
[2008/06/07 9:12] Moon Adamant: yup, that’s why i hold the Guild meetings weekly
[2008/06/07 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn is just a silly blonde iRL
[2008/06/07 9:13] Moon Adamant: but try and IM them? if they’re by their machines, they’ll see the IMs arriving on their mail
[2008/06/07 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, Jamie’s been actively IMing everybody
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love your robes, Jamie, btw :))
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have a dress code for the RA meetings hehe
[2008/06/07 9:14] MT Lundquist: how many do we need for quorum
[2008/06/07 9:14] You: ah, well, 🙂 Victorian sim party, thanks
[2008/06/07 9:14] You: four of seven
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 😀
[2008/06/07 9:14] You: I see Prin’s online
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great!!!
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: she keeps losing internet
[2008/06/07 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack MT
[2008/06/07 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s too bad 🙁
[2008/06/07 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is SL one another bad day today?….
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: its her internet
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: it goes frequently
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: very annoying
[2008/06/07 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… argh
[2008/06/07 9:16] MT Lundquist: its funny, skype usually goes first then she crashes sl
[2008/06/07 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s VERY annoying :(((
[2008/06/07 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL is actually quite good at tolerating disconnections
[2008/06/07 9:16] You: that IS odd
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can pull the cord out of your computer for half a minute or so, and SL won’t crash… often it recovers!
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: Skype does seem to have a heavy – and *spiking* – proicessor load
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: true
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And SL doesn’t???? heheheheheh
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: but you know Skype is one of those distributed processor deals like SETI
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is? Hmm
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn uses Skype so little
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: so you can be, intermittently, a node .. amd get a LOT of throughput – whether or not you are yourself in a heavy session
[2008/06/07 9:18] MT Lundquist: prin says she is having problems logging in
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now is Skype also used to discover intelligent lifeforms on Earth? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, couldn’t resist
[2008/06/07 9:18] You: me too, used to keep it on for presence, but now I use GTalk instead (Jabber compliant! Yay standards!)
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Jamie 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:18] MT Lundquist: she also says she doesnt have the money from Alex yet
[2008/06/07 9:18] You: and SKype client only comes on for cheap VoIP
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn had fun yesterday connecting SL to GTalk
[2008/06/07 9:18] You: well 🙂 Alexi committed to join us here also
[2008/06/07 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, wasn’t this the Day of the Chancellor?…
[2008/06/07 9:19] Jamie Palisades makes an odd facial gesture indicating slight doubt
[2008/06/07 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 9:19] You: Another phenom on our list of CDS issues
[2008/06/07 9:19] MT Lundquist: has justice got his new faction up and running yet
[2008/06/07 9:19] You: connection, how, Gwyn?
[2008/06/07 9:19] Moon Adamant: Justice?
[2008/06/07 9:20] You: (and MT, remind me to talk to you or her directly about the L$$$)
[2008/06/07 9:20] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, just having fun… you chat in SL, and it gets funneled to someone in GTalk, who can answer back
[2008/06/07 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do a GTalk HUD some day 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:20] MT Lundquist: is that text or voice
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, text only
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although GTalk fully supports voice these days
[2008/06/07 9:21] You: ah. huh. Well my av has a GMail address, thus GTalk ID, so if the Gmail addr is my IM redirect, it all seems to flow fairly well
[2008/06/07 9:21] MT Lundquist: ok interesting
[2008/06/07 9:21] MT Lundquist: how do you set it up?
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea, lol â€” it doesn’t work well on my Mac!
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean GTalk with voice
[2008/06/07 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think you have to download a small application from Google…
[2008/06/07 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/06/07 9:22] You: yup
[2008/06/07 9:22] You: it does both a web based ssesion, and a sep client – which is nicely compact
[2008/06/07 9:22] MT Lundquist: right i’ll look later
[2008/06/07 9:23] MT Lundquist: how long do we wait?
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: well, let’s see 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: Do we know if Prin can join us? She’d make quorum
[2008/06/07 9:23] Moon Adamant: you should have a procedure
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: I do, dear
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: public revilement 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:24] Moon Adamant: like in the portuguese framework code for associations
[2008/06/07 9:24] You: but only with reasonable forbearance
[2008/06/07 9:24] Moon Adamant: that after 30 minutes, session is open with those present
[2008/06/07 9:24] You: huh = interesting, but that would not be very respectful of faction representation?
[2008/06/07 9:25] Moon Adamant: it’s they who have clocks
[2008/06/07 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… hehe
[2008/06/07 9:25] You: my preference would be an automnatic replacement of people who miss a few in a row without giving regrets or etc.
[2008/06/07 9:25] MT Lundquist: prin says she will come in if gwyn will tell us the name of her book
[2008/06/07 9:25] MT Lundquist: shes sick actually
[2008/06/07 9:25] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/06/07 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/06/07 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tell her it’s in Portuguese anyway, and I’m just one of 13 co-authors…
[2008/06/07 9:26] Moon Adamant: haven’t read it yet Gwyn, sorry .(
[2008/06/07 9:26] MT Lundquist: whats the topic
[2008/06/07 9:27] Moon Adamant: alternative history
[2008/06/07 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[2008/06/07 9:27] Danton Sideways: Isn’t that a branch of cyberpunk, like steampunk about how the 18th century COULD have been?
[2008/06/07 9:28] You: haha
[2008/06/07 9:28] Moon Adamant: yes, in a way steampunk is alternative history
[2008/06/07 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sort of something like that
[2008/06/07 9:28] Moon Adamant: but generally AH picks a single moment in the past
[2008/06/07 9:28] MT Lundquist: her other alternative is to come in if we all do naked RA lol
[2008/06/07 9:28] Moon Adamant: and rewrites history from that moment
[2008/06/07 9:28] You: At 930 I will suggest we declare ourselves unable to meet and try again next week, colleagues
[2008/06/07 9:28] MT Lundquist: i’m just relaying messages
[2008/06/07 9:28] MT Lundquist: dont shoot me
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL MT 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: you have a very good book of alternative history about american secession war
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: called Pavane
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I second Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:29] You: well THAT really ought to be in CN, no?
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: called “Pavane”
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: i can’t remember the author, sorry
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could use the Thermae for that 😉
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh Moon…
[2008/06/07 9:29] You: I guess the book “ssgb” would fall in that class
[2008/06/07 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: if i could come to RA and see you lovely people i would but i have a headache and i really dont feel like it ok ??
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: from prin
[2008/06/07 9:30] You: I dunno Gwyn, didn’t someone ban hot tubs, evil grin?
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: my name is theprincess it comes from the book theprincess and the pea [17:30:13] pennyp says: i am very sensitive
[2008/06/07 9:30] You: is there an, um, community thermae somewhwre too?
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: so please stop wishing
[2008/06/07 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Thermae is an ‘approved’ hot-tubby building
[2008/06/07 9:30] You: what I don’t know about CN would fill volumes
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: i am on a little break
[2008/06/07 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and MT, my best wishes of a full recovery to Prin, I hope she gets rid of her headache soon
[2008/06/07 9:31] MT Lundquist: this is cut and paste
[2008/06/07 9:31] Moon Adamant: yes, best recovery
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose is also doing another attempt to join us…
[2008/06/07 9:32] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT hmm
[2008/06/07 9:32] You: Poor J[censored] and B[censored], they were so hoping CN was going to be Colonia Orgy-a
[2008/06/07 9:32] Moon Adamant: do you think they may have been confused by last saturday the RA was an hour later?
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the RA meeting is over,
[2008/06/07 9:32] You: ahem, smile
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the time
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: It’s 09h30. May I declare thi a failed meeting and release our colleagues if they wis?
[2008/06/07 9:33] Moon Adamant makes a sad face
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just going to suggest that we review the pending things for the Commission With The Long Name
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: so no naked RA then
[2008/06/07 9:33] Patroklus Murakami: 🙁
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: i guess
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: With apologies to Moon and the Guild & others who may have had business this week
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: i’ll tell prin
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: rtight
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: and yes, love to stay and hear that, Gwyn, great idea
[2008/06/07 9:34] MT Lundquist: she says yes please to the orgy and she will log back in
[2008/06/07 9:34] MT Lundquist: but really she has a headache
[2008/06/07 9:34] You: although of course if that commisson is to meet it also must announce time 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:34] MT Lundquist: hi rose
[2008/06/07 9:34] You: Well our best wishes to Prin
[2008/06/07 9:34] Rose Springvale: hi everyone
[2008/06/07 9:34] Moon Adamant: MT, thank her for us
[2008/06/07 9:34] Moon Adamant: hi Rose
[2008/06/07 9:35] You: Good morning (such as it is) Rose 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:35] Rose Springvale: hi Jamie… sigh.. you guys look a little sparse
[2008/06/07 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi Rose 😀
[2008/06/07 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well, we are
[2008/06/07 9:36] Rose Springvale: sighs
[2008/06/07 9:36] You: We just concluded we’re not having RA, and offered the rest of this time to Gwyn to help organize The Miscellaneous Good Intentions Commission
[2008/06/07 9:37] Rose Springvale: oh. i thought this was the chancellor meeting today
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, it *was*…
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so hmm
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, what time would be best for you?
[2008/06/07 9:37] You: So did I, he says in a deceptively mild tone
[2008/06/07 9:37] Rose Springvale: does he come later?
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, how much time should that be announced in advance?
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3 days? 1 day? 5 minutes? 😀
[2008/06/07 9:37] You: oh he will come 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:37] MT Lundquist: best time?
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, for the Commission
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which ought to have met 2 weeks ago
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn blames herself
[2008/06/07 9:38] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the one to get all sorts of proposals on term limits, overlapping roles, and code of conduct
[2008/06/07 9:38] You: hm
[2008/06/07 9:38] MT Lundquist: just suggest sometime
[2008/06/07 9:38] MT Lundquist: times
[2008/06/07 9:38] Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:39] You: The Commission of Good Intentions and Unspeakble Name 😀
[2008/06/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the one 😀
[2008/06/07 9:39] Patroklus Murakami: “the path to hell…..”
[2008/06/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see… Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday I’m usually unavailable from 2 PM to 5 PM SLT
[2008/06/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can meet either earlier or later…
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tomorrow, I have something at 2:30 PM
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i go to bed at 12pm slt weekdays
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, all right.
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 12 PM SLT?
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: its so i’m adjusted to Prins day
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i work
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I go to sleep much earlier lol
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: she works
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i sleep
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i get up at 4am in my morning
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
[2008/06/07 9:41] You: You are a saint MT
[2008/06/07 9:41] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: jamie, how much advance notice should we give then?
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest mmh Tuesday at 2 PM perhaps?
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or Thursday, from noon onwards to 6 PM would be fine
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: same on Friday
[2008/06/07 9:42] MT Lundquist: noon thursday may be ok for an hour
[2008/06/07 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2008/06/07 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Works for me…
[2008/06/07 9:42] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it gives 5 days or so advance notice.
[2008/06/07 9:43] MT Lundquist: ok well i guess i may as well go if theres no meeting
[2008/06/07 9:44] You: Yup and thanks for trying MT
[2008/06/07 9:44] You: before you go
[2008/06/07 9:44] MT Lundquist: np
[2008/06/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, thanks so much for coming…
[2008/06/07 9:44] MT Lundquist: see you all again
[2008/06/07 9:44] Rose Springvale: that means you all can go make me an auction donation 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:44] You: is there a specific timing issue on the Commerce Commission output?
[2008/06/07 9:44] MT Lundquist: only when RA wants it
[2008/06/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/06/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and YES, Rosie dear!)
[2008/06/07 9:45] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:45] MT Lundquist: ok bye for now
[2008/06/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you soon, MT 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:45] Rose Springvale: thanks Gwyn!
[2008/06/07 9:45] Danton Sideways: When is the auction again?
[2008/06/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prepare to be spammed, Rose 😀
[2008/06/07 9:45] Rose Springvale: tomorrow at 2 slt
[2008/06/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tomorrow?
[2008/06/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: in alpine meadows
[2008/06/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: now danton, i must insist
[2008/06/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: that you open your invitation
[2008/06/07 9:46] You: Anything you need from us infomally on The Nameless Commission, G?
[2008/06/07 9:46] Danton Sideways: I must have filed it
[2008/06/07 9:46] Patroklus Murakami: i must get going too, bye everyone 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye! Pat!
[2008/06/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, not really
[2008/06/07 9:47] Rose Springvale: bye pat
[2008/06/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and let’s call it “Comission on Term Limts, Overlapping Roles, and RA Code of Conduct” 😀
[2008/06/07 9:48] You: the Cthulu Commi – never mind 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:48] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/06/07 9:49] Moon Adamant: The NG Secretary of the Board would like to make a statement
[2008/06/07 9:49] You: Feel free – though we’re probably not ranscripting this, migh wan tto do a forum post too
[2008/06/07 9:50] You: I know your group’s worked very hard to deliiver some key material today specificalky.
[2008/06/07 9:50] Moon Adamant: We are very sorry that this RA session failed to happen, as it could decide the immediate exapnsion to 47 new citizens
[2008/06/07 9:51] Moon Adamant: and also approve a very important tool for the NG – our new Charter
[2008/06/07 9:53] Danton Sideways: Everybody must be in IM 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:53] Rose Springvale: i’m just sitting here collecting donations Danton lol
[2008/06/07 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn is swamping Rose in donations
[2008/06/07 9:54] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 9:54] Moon Adamant: ok, i will remove the cubes from the wall
[2008/06/07 9:54] Danton Sideways: Nothing to donate so I’ll try to show up to buy something
[2008/06/07 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some of these outfits are actually very nice, Rose!…. just out of fashion hehe
[2008/06/07 9:54] You: Gwyn I think I promised to make a suggestion about something you personally could donate to the auction, grin
[2008/06/07 9:54] Rose Springvale: Vintage, Gwyn, Vintage
[2008/06/07 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* riiiiight
[2008/06/07 9:54] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/06/07 9:54] Rose Springvale: danton, just come and support us 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie… let’s hear it!
[2008/06/07 9:55] Danton Sideways: Hey FR!
[2008/06/07 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: hi, sorry for being late
[2008/06/07 9:55] Rose Springvale: hi FRC
[2008/06/07 9:55] Moon Adamant: hello FR
[2008/06/07 9:55] You: well well
[2008/06/07 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, FR 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: rezzig…
[2008/06/07 9:55] You: Good morning Roc
[2008/06/07 9:55] You: We declared inquorate at 09h30 but have been chatting informally
[2008/06/07 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better late than never, FR!
[2008/06/07 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: ah
[2008/06/07 9:56] Flyingroc Chung: this is the portugese motto, no?
[2008/06/07 9:56] You: let’s see who still is on line
[2008/06/07 9:56] Flyingroc Chung: 😉
[2008/06/07 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes it is, FR 😉
[2008/06/07 9:56] Moon Adamant: MT is
[2008/06/07 9:58] Jamie Palisades is IM ing with MT
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Master Roc
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how have you been? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did you sleep well? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/06/07 9:59] Rose Springvale: hmmmm
[2008/06/07 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: Lots of work
[2008/06/07 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ouchie.
[2008/06/07 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: I got home at 9:00 last night
[2008/06/07 9:59] Moon Adamant: Princess is logged too
[2008/06/07 9:59] Rose Springvale: yikes.
[2008/06/07 9:59] Rose Springvale: do you think we sent you out there to work all the time? oh no!
[2008/06/07 10:00] Flyingroc Chung: well, we were building this interesting spellchecker application that would take advantage of multicore processors
[2008/06/07 10:00] Flyingroc Chung: unfortunately, ours is not as good as Word’s, which isn’t all that good to begin with. 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I thought it was because he enjoyed the rain, Rose… 😀
[2008/06/07 10:01] Rose Springvale: nods like she understands multicore processors
[2008/06/07 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: omg it rained the whole week
[2008/06/07 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s *finally* sunny around here 😀
[2008/06/07 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: I think seattle has more vampires than anywhere else, since the sun is never out here
[2008/06/07 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we had to wait soooo long… lol
[2008/06/07 10:01] Rose Springvale: you are not used to that.. it will drive you crazy
[2008/06/07 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha FR
[2008/06/07 10:01] Rose Springvale: vampires in Seattle.. now THAT is a book
[2008/06/07 10:01] You: we’re not getting MT back I think
[2008/06/07 10:01] You: Coffee Vampires!
[2008/06/07 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: though it doesn’t matter, I’m in a small windowless room most of the day anyway
[2008/06/07 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* @ Jamie and is not surprised
[2008/06/07 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: basking in the glow of the monitor
[2008/06/07 10:02] Danton Sideways: At least it’s a room
[2008/06/07 10:02] Danton Sideways: and not just a cubicle
[2008/06/07 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ll get a nice UV tan, FR 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: Danton, I’m “doubled up” with somebody else
[2008/06/07 10:03] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: FRC, i could use a cute little gadget donation for the auction…
[2008/06/07 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, you’ve got a *Guild* Tshirt? How cool
[2008/06/07 10:03] Danton Sideways: better than being in just one giant room
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: hm
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: yes, and you too can have one tomorrow!
[2008/06/07 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: true, danton
[2008/06/07 10:03] You: So what’s this I heard about DPU, Roc ? 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I hope to be able to bid for one 😉
[2008/06/07 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: all I have are gambling games
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: Cindy made them, any donation to the guild will get you one 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooooh gossip?!
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: you have coffee!
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: < has seen coffee [2008/06/07 10:04] You: oh - right - Gwyn: donate a trans copy of your smoking anim [2008/06/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders what the "coffee" thingy is 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah... sure [2008/06/07 10:04] You: this is virtual Europe, dammit! [2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: lol [2008/06/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol 😀 [2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: she gave me a billion things [2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, mostly old clothes [2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 [2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I can give some anims too [2008/06/07 10:05] You: in fact Sudane's cafe should be posted as the smoking section! [2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: Vintage Gwyn! [2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: Vintage!! [2008/06/07 10:05] Danton Sideways: cool [2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: i will teach you to market yet 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes, all right, vintage! [2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww [2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd love to take classes!! [2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: lol [2008/06/07 10:06] Danton Sideways: tell M [2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: i have all the perms on these right? i hope to never uncheck another perm box again lol [2008/06/07 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: I have hm a blackjack table [2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: fun! [2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should, Rose [2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you do lol [2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The clothes are ok [2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: okay 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: those are illegal now [2008/06/07 10:07] You: hm [2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All designers before 2006 always made permissions no-copy but transfer [2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: only if used to gamble with.. can you play without gambling? [2008/06/07 10:07] Danton Sideways: vintage! [2008/06/07 10:08] You: not if they are not fed wih money:) [2008/06/07 10:08] Rose Springvale: lol danton! [2008/06/07 10:08] Flyingroc Chung: nope [2008/06/07 10:08] Rose Springvale: hmm [2008/06/07 10:08] Rose Springvale: are charity casino nightst alllowed? [2008/06/07 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmmh [2008/06/07 10:08] You: close call, grin, nose wrinkle [2008/06/07 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think not, UNLESS you can prove you're a RL charity and chartered to do gambling 😉 [2008/06/07 10:09] Rose Springvale: usually charity nights are exempt from charters... [2008/06/07 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I have been for long trying to worry LL's lawyers [2008/06/07 10:09] Rose Springvale: unless they sell liquor... [2008/06/07 10:09] Danton Sideways: at least put TM on it [2008/06/07 10:09] You: oo [2008/06/07 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around here, *anyone* can create a game to win money IF you get a permission from the authorities (it's mostly bureaucracy, not really more than that) [2008/06/07 10:09] You: let's auction off Robin L! [2008/06/07 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what would LL do, [2008/06/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I'd send them a permit? 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: smile [2008/06/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh jamie [2008/06/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: she'd fetch zillions of L$!! [2008/06/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: i'll send her ants.. [2008/06/07 10:10] Danton Sideways: how much on Facebook? [2008/06/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: does facebook sell now?? [2008/06/07 10:11] Danton Sideways: they have an application where you "buy" other people's profiles [2008/06/07 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: when's the auction, rose? [2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: oh my [2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: tomorrow [2008/06/07 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes hehe [2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: 🙂 2-5 [2008/06/07 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: ah [2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: no worries FRC [2008/06/07 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: I'll go see if I can score some goodies from a few friends [2008/06/07 10:12] Rose Springvale: oh great! [2008/06/07 10:12] Rose Springvale: and invite them to come [2008/06/07 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: I havent made a single thing in more than a year [2008/06/07 10:12] Rose Springvale: ahhh [2008/06/07 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* @ FR and understands *perfectly* [2008/06/07 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: and those were all gambling games [2008/06/07 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, are you going to auction things individually, or in batches?... [2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh [2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have Sonja here 😀 [2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Sonja! [2008/06/07 10:14] You: well hello [2008/06/07 10:14] Rose Springvale: i'm not sure.. i was going to do individual, but i've gotten a couple of large batches.. so maybe both [2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose [2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good, so I don't need to send you more things?? hehe [2008/06/07 10:14] Moon Adamant: hi Sonja! .) [2008/06/07 10:14] Rose Springvale: you have done enough 🙂 thanks 🙂 ---- [2008/06/07 10:14] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody. [2008/06/07 10:14] Sonja Strom: Sorry I am late. [2008/06/07 10:14] You: Not sure about proceeding, to be fair [2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn is open to anything [2008/06/07 10:15] You: on the one hand we adjounred [2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean [2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: related to the RA 😉 [2008/06/07 10:15] You: can I quote you 😀 [2008/06/07 10:15] Moon Adamant: Jamie, pass a motion between present if they want to have the session? [2008/06/07 10:15] You: well that's what we are discussing Moon [2008/06/07 10:15] Moon Adamant: the present RA members, of course [2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh [2008/06/07 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I sense "irregularity" here, however, the RA is sovereign [2008/06/07 10:16] You: a point in favor of going fwd: all are online except BV, so can choose wheether to attend, and we're still within the original meeting time [2008/06/07 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if you inform MT, jamie... [2008/06/07 10:16] You: yup [2008/06/07 10:16] You: can I tell him and Prin that the four of us are inclined to convene? [2008/06/07 10:16] Moon Adamant: yes, and RA is sovereign to pass motions [2008/06/07 10:16] Rose Springvale: do you still have seven day voting? [2008/06/07 10:16] Jamie Palisades hopes a tiara does not come with thie 'sovereignty' thing [2008/06/07 10:17] You: let's constrain this a sec. [2008/06/07 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn hands over a *sceptre* [2008/06/07 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: is there anything pressing we need to discuss? [2008/06/07 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: yes, the NG charter [2008/06/07 10:17] You: Sonja, Gwyn and Roc. Do you wish to convene? [2008/06/07 10:17] Moon Adamant: new sim [2008/06/07 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: aye! [2008/06/07 10:17] Moon Adamant: altenstadt redeployment.... [2008/06/07 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: sure [2008/06/07 10:17] Sonja Strom: aye [2008/06/07 10:17] You: kk [2008/06/07 10:17] You: doin it [2008/06/07 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn will be right back, sorry [2008/06/07 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and baaaack 😀 [2008/06/07 10:21] You: OK [2008/06/07 10:22] You: I have communicated w MT and Prin and never retracted the original call to BV [2008/06/07 10:22] You: so [2008/06/07 10:22] You: I believe that our best judgment is that we're free to convene, given that we are within the originl stated time commitment for the meeting [2008/06/07 10:22] You: this is of course open to challenge 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all righty 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:22] Rose Springvale: yay! [2008/06/07 10:22] Rose Springvale: 😉 [2008/06/07 10:23] You: But I'm unaware of a rule, or fairness principle, that bars us convening late. Anyone else see a problem? [2008/06/07 10:23] Sonja Strom: 3 of the 4 factions are present. [2008/06/07 10:23] You: (and thanks for coming, Sonja and Roc) [2008/06/07 10:23] Jamie Palisades looks around - sees no objections [2008/06/07 10:23] Moon Adamant: and the 4th is not present out of their choice, as it seems ---- [2008/06/07 10:23] You: OK, we're convened then, and thank you. [2008/06/07 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me... I might have objected if we were NOT within the announced time/day [2008/06/07 10:23] Moon Adamant: agenda, please? [2008/06/07 10:23] You: proposed agenda here - [2008/06/07 10:23] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1892 [2008/06/07 10:24] You: and it needs work 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:24] You: take a look whle I run through the administrative trivia ---- [2008/06/07 10:24] You: 1a - all please assent to recording. I assent [2008/06/07 10:24] You: taking out of order slightly [2008/06/07 10:24] Moon Adamant: assent [2008/06/07 10:24] You: 1d - Please read the posted transcripts, advise me of any flaws [2008/06/07 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely assent 🙂 ---- [2008/06/07 10:25] You: 1c - we DID have speakers for today [2008/06/07 10:25] You: hm [2008/06/07 10:25] Flyingroc Chung assents [2008/06/07 10:25] You: Guild, and Pat on Elections stuff [2008/06/07 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right... we did [2008/06/07 10:25] Danton Sideways: I assent [2008/06/07 10:25] You: Moon knows; I will IM Pat - but his plan can wait a week, he said [2008/06/07 10:25] You: so arguably noi mission-critical [2008/06/07 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat had to go, yes... so we can start with the Guild first ---- [2008/06/07 10:25] You: 1b [2008/06/07 10:26] You: agenda 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:26] Sonja Strom: I assent to be recorded [2008/06/07 10:26] Danton Sideways: Hi Nicolae have a seat [2008/06/07 10:26] You: I suggest we move the guild items first [2008/06/07 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, Nicolae! [2008/06/07 10:26] Jamie Palisades grins [2008/06/07 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the LRA's suggestion [2008/06/07 10:26] You: any objections? [2008/06/07 10:26] Nicolae Debevec: hi [2008/06/07 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: nope [2008/06/07 10:27] You: Hello Nico - you are welcome but this is a formal meeting., see some agenda and process rulkes here if you like - [2008/06/07 10:27] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1892 [2008/06/07 10:27] You: OK --- [2008/06/07 10:27] You: 1e future meetings [2008/06/07 10:27] You: next week same time [2008/06/07 10:27] You: Sudane has committed to us for that meeting [2008/06/07 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn will sadly not be around but ok [2008/06/07 10:27] You: so I will inquire of Alexi about the meeting after that [2008/06/07 10:27] You: and we will discuss where to go from there 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:28] You: also note a number of actions and commissions that will need to move fast if the opening of the next CDS election is a deadline [2008/06/07 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn makes note to self to grumble at the missing Chancellor [2008/06/07 10:28] Jamie Palisades smiles - skeptically ---- [2008/06/07 10:28] You: 1f [2008/06/07 10:28] You: consent items [2008/06/07 10:28] You: I have none. Anyone else? ---- [2008/06/07 10:29] You: 🙂 OK then. Moon? Sim4 or Charter first? [2008/06/07 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh I think not... there was some thoughts of Pat pushing a vote on the election thingies without dicussion [2008/06/07 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: what election thingies? [2008/06/07 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he was here to present that himself, FR... [2008/06/07 10:29] Moon Adamant: Charter first I believe [2008/06/07 10:30] Jamie Palisades smiles - Pat's alternative ideas re Election Commission thread - but Moon's items have the floor 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:30] Moon Adamant: since it really is a simple document [2008/06/07 10:30] Moon Adamant: that organizes the Guild's structure in face of the new Private Sim Dev, not to mention some internal organization that was needeed, as we epanded our activities [2008/06/07 10:30] Moon Adamant: it's the red cube on the wall 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:31] You: or, for the transcript - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1875 [2008/06/07 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn does not have anything to add on that issue â€” I have read the charter quite often, and seen its development over the months, and I'm happy with it as it stands now [2008/06/07 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the new, proposed charter [2008/06/07 10:32] You: Mooon, can I just confirm - [2008/06/07 10:32] Moon Adamant: the charter, as usual, was the result of a collaborative document~ [2008/06/07 10:32] Moon Adamant: yes? [2008/06/07 10:33] You: this text has been approved by Faculty and New Guild without change,right? As posted 25 May? [2008/06/07 10:33] Moon Adamant: exactly [2008/06/07 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: Does it sem like the secretary of the board is actually extremely difficlt to remove? [2008/06/07 10:33] You: annnd it was avail for public comment? just a sec Roc please [2008/06/07 10:33] Moon Adamant: it was voted unanimously at both Faculty and Board, if i am not mistaken [2008/06/07 10:33] Moon Adamant: it was avaliable for public comment within the Faculty [2008/06/07 10:34] You: well [2008/06/07 10:34] Moon Adamant: then it was published for a wekk for omore public comment, there was none [2008/06/07 10:34] You: by 'public' I mean, there it is, on the forums 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:34] You: right [2008/06/07 10:34] Moon Adamant: then was voted at the board [2008/06/07 10:34] You: so 🙂 ready for us then [2008/06/07 10:34] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the post was up for public discussion to all interested parties on Sun May 25, 2008 8:51 am) [2008/06/07 10:35] Moon Adamant: but was approved only last sunday [2008/06/07 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. [2008/06/07 10:35] Moon Adamant: 1st June [2008/06/07 10:35] You: OK thx [2008/06/07 10:35] You: Roc you had a Q? [2008/06/07 10:35] Flyingroc Chung: yes, 4/5 majority to eject the chair and the secretary? [2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: that was a point that was specially voted [2008/06/07 10:36] You: hm [2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: voted [2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: since the board, as you can read, is an ad-hocracy [2008/06/07 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: also note: 9. The Board decides by ad-hoc democracy (all citizens present at a Board meeting can vote) [2008/06/07 10:36] You: seems a little undemocratic to me frankly - I dislike entrenched leadership roles on principle [2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: no, not at all [2008/06/07 10:37] Moon Adamant: you see that all citizens can show up at the guild meeting and pass a motion to depose the Sec [2008/06/07 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, honestly, it's actually not the RA's place to 'impose' models of work to NGOs -- we just have to validate if it follows our rules for incorporation/chartering, and that newer legislation (like the BAC; and the implications on restricting 'role overlap') have been taken care of. [2008/06/07 10:38] You: hmm - so the argument isthat a supermajority is needed to deal with an unusually transient voting cohort. Moon, the basis for my assumption is that any leader whose removal requires 4/5tha will need only acquire 20% to be untouchable [2008/06/07 10:38] Moon Adamant: well, Jamie, this point was highly debated [2008/06/07 10:38] You: 🙂 we respectfully may disagree Gwyn - but let's talk about the merits first [2008/06/07 10:38] Moon Adamant: and as said, it required a special motion [2008/06/07 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie [2008/06/07 10:38] You: Moon, can you give us a little flavor of why the guild reached this solution? [2008/06/07 10:39] Moon Adamant: well, first of all, the Sec and Chair will delegate much more power [2008/06/07 10:39] Moon Adamant: in the departments [2008/06/07 10:39] Moon Adamant: namely - financials [2008/06/07 10:40] Moon Adamant: the main issue, i believe, was a generalized fear that an hostile take over in an ad-hocracy could unstabilize the Guild processes [2008/06/07 10:41] Moon Adamant: processes and projects [2008/06/07 10:41] Moon Adamant: we're there to work, after all [2008/06/07 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I insist that the Guild, as a NGO, is treated as such by the RA â€” so either the RA refuses to grant a charter, or it accepts it [2008/06/07 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interfering with how the Guild organises itself is, well, against our common practice [2008/06/07 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The few legislation we have for incorporation and such just defines the terms of registration, which certainly allow each organisation to, well, organise itself as they wish [2008/06/07 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the RA *has* to validate are the bits that interconnect with Governmental work: in this case, the BAC and the non-overlap of some roles [2008/06/07 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'd like to propose a motion for the RA to accept the New Guild Charter as it is. [2008/06/07 10:44] You: I second it. [2008/06/07 10:45] You: personally not sure I agree with GL that we can't kibitz on NGO governance - but Moon's substantive arguments here seem to support the decision [2008/06/07 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles [2008/06/07 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:45] You: Any other discussion on motion? [2008/06/07 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for further discussion... [2008/06/07 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: none here [2008/06/07 10:47] You: Let me mention: Prin and MT have, understandably, requested 7 day vote on all action items today. This has the effects noted in our rules, but as I see it is NOT an obstacle to our proceeding -- we will just have to see if they later choose to register votes that would change any of these outcomes. [2008/06/07 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. [2008/06/07 10:47] You: anyone have a problem with my take on that? [2008/06/07 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None whatsoever 😀 [2008/06/07 10:47] Flyingroc Chung: nope [2008/06/07 10:47] You: OK then. Ready to vote? [2008/06/07 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready and votes 'aye' [2008/06/07 10:48] You: Members please state your vote on the motion to approve Guild charter as submitted, which I assume *replaces* any old charters in total. I vote aye [2008/06/07 10:48] You: Sonja? Roc? [2008/06/07 10:48] Flyingroc Chung: aye [2008/06/07 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, basically this supercedes NL 6-2) [2008/06/07 10:49] Sonja Strom: aye [2008/06/07 10:49] Jamie Palisades nods [2008/06/07 10:49] Flyingroc Chung: are we keeping the wiki up to date? [2008/06/07 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:49] You: thanks. I declare it passed 4-0-0- subjectto adjustment by the 7 day rule, at the request of MT and ThePrincess. [2008/06/07 10:49] Moon Adamant: thank you 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:49] You: Roc 🙂 let's do have that chat [2008/06/07 10:49] You: but not on Moon's clock [2008/06/07 10:49] Moon Adamant: lol [2008/06/07 10:49] You: heh [2008/06/07 10:49] Moon Adamant: ok, next ---- [2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: 4 th Sim [2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: on the wall behind sonja [2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: you have 2 cubes [2008/06/07 10:50] Jamie Palisades and Gwyn exchange Dark Significant Looks about the archiving, and move on [2008/06/07 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 [2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: orange is the covenant draft, again a collaborative document by an open WG [2008/06/07 10:51] Moon Adamant: Yellow is Sudane's post about financials which adds to her previous post [2008/06/07 10:51] Moon Adamant: i will start to present covenants [2008/06/07 10:51] Moon Adamant: first of all, a note [2008/06/07 10:52] Moon Adamant: the Guild has kept the CDS General covenants as they are stated for AM on this document [2008/06/07 10:52] Moon Adamant: but will present this RA with a list of concerns expressed by several citizens about the General Covenants, and will ask a review [2008/06/07 10:52] Moon Adamant: As for the rest of the covenants [2008/06/07 10:53] Moon Adamant: and due to the fact that we often have complaints that our covenants are too long, [2008/06/07 10:53] Moon Adamant: we tried to keep them as short and simple as possible. [2008/06/07 10:53] Moon Adamant: done and ready for questions [2008/06/07 10:53] You: 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:53] You: Moon [2008/06/07 10:54] Moon Adamant: yes? [2008/06/07 10:54] You: This also was subject to a review process, I think, can you briefly explain it? [2008/06/07 10:54] Moon Adamant: the covenants? [2008/06/07 10:54] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 10:54] You: yes - it's good for us to note in the record when things have been posted, subject to reviews etc. [2008/06/07 10:54] You: just very briefly 🙂 [2008/06/07 10:55] Moon Adamant: the wg met on two consecutive nights to work upon a draft which was a mix from CN and AM covenants [2008/06/07 10:55] Moon Adamant: due to the fact that this is a roman sim, so gets some elements from CN, and is a double sim, gets some elements from AM [2008/06/07 10:56] Moon Adamant: double prim* [2008/06/07 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn has no questions -- there is just a TINY thingy, on 2 h (a sentence is duplicated) but that's me just being pedant 😛 [2008/06/07 10:56] Moon Adamant: the doc was posted immdediately after drafted [2008/06/07 10:57] Moon Adamant: and to this moment, only has had some typos corrections [2008/06/07 10:57] Rose Springvale: correction was posted moon, to two items [2008/06/07 10:57] You: 🙂 thanks. [2008/06/07 10:57] Moon Adamant: all clauses have been voted unanimously, with exception of height clauses, in which there was one abstain [2008/06/07 10:58] You: and for the transcript, the text is here - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1898 [2008/06/07 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, if we approve the covenants, I'd like to add Rose's posted corrections & typos as friendlies, they definitely don't change anything. [2008/06/07 10:58] Moon Adamant: yes, indeed [2008/06/07 10:58] Moon Adamant: they're friendlies... we were just getting very very tired lol [2008/06/07 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I can imagine [2008/06/07 10:58] You: put a motion to approve out? [2008/06/07 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My suggestion would be just the following, Mr LRA [2008/06/07 10:58] Sonja Strom: I have a question. [2008/06/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's approve the sim's name first, because the sim should be identified on the Covenants with its "proper name" [2008/06/07 10:59] Moon Adamant: yes? [2008/06/07 10:59] You: gwyn then sonja please [2008/06/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I'm finished â€¦ [2008/06/07 10:59] Moon Adamant: ah, yes, he sim's name will be a friendly too [2008/06/07 10:59] You: can we have sonja's Q then ask for motions? [2008/06/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* [2008/06/07 10:59] Moon Adamant listens to Sonja~ [2008/06/07 10:59] Sonja Strom: What would the proposed covenants say about allowing signage for shops? [2008/06/07 11:00] Moon Adamant: general covenants, Sonja [2008/06/07 11:00] Sonja Strom: like those in AM? [2008/06/07 11:00] You: yes- to clarify [2008/06/07 11:00] Moon Adamant: and also [2008/06/07 11:00] Moon Adamant: clause 3.d [2008/06/07 11:01] Moon Adamant: Commercial function is allowed if falling within the theme of the sim, or, failing that, be kept in interior spaces. Cultural, Social and Arts and Crafts organizations are exempt of this clause. [2008/06/07 11:01] You: Sonja, that subject will be treated in the same way in all four sims, except there's a "period materials" issue that varies I believe [2008/06/07 11:01] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 11:01] Moon Adamant: in this sim specifically [2008/06/07 11:01] Sonja Strom: but the signage covenants vary by sim now, don't they? [2008/06/07 11:01] You: more discussion? [2008/06/07 11:02] You: hmmmmmm [2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: 2.d [2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: d) All the buildings exteriors must be built in pre-industrial materials, namely: .Structural elements can be stone, brick or wood. .Roofing elements can be slate or terracotta shingles or tiles. .Exterior flooring elements can be brick, ceramics, stone, wood or mosaic. .Wall elements can be stone, brick, wood, stucco or fresco. .Door and window elements can be wood or metals, raw or painted. .Large panes of glass in any colour must be partitioned by appropriate framing. [2008/06/07 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: so, if I were, say selling togas, that would be ok? [2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: Sonja [2008/06/07 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: yes on the outside 😉 [2008/06/07 11:02] You: I do not think so Sonja:) the ENFORCEMENT may vary ... [2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: yes, what Jamie said [2008/06/07 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but it should then look like a 'real' Roman shop for selling togas 😉 [2008/06/07 11:02] Sonja Strom: hmm, I will try to look into that. [2008/06/07 11:02] You: More? [2008/06/07 11:03] You: Or any motions? [2008/06/07 11:03] Sonja Strom: I believe the signage laws are different in AM than in Neufreistadt. [2008/06/07 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn is not going to check 😀 [2008/06/07 11:03] Moon Adamant: they shouldn't be [2008/06/07 11:03] Moon Adamant: but in any case [2008/06/07 11:04] Sonja Strom is feeling a little frustrated. [2008/06/07 11:04] Moon Adamant: those belong to General Covenants, about which we will send you the note with comments and request for reviews [2008/06/07 11:04] You: possibly - what Moon and I should have remembered to mention is this: ... [2008/06/07 11:04] You: ... there is work that the Guild discussed on the GENERAL covenants also - but that's not proposed to be a task for today, or a barrier to Sim4 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:04] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 11:04] Moon Adamant: The Guild felt [2008/06/07 11:05] Moon Adamant: that it is not in the Guild's scope to decree THE general covenants that apply in all sims [2008/06/07 11:05] Moon Adamant: but in RA's scope [2008/06/07 11:05] You: so I think, Sonja, the right answer may be this: whatever is the degree of uneven-ness, this proposal will make it no worse, and will not stop it from being corrected across CDS. [2008/06/07 11:05] Moon Adamant: i will try to make you have that note as soon as possible [2008/06/07 11:05] Sonja Strom: Are there 2 levels of covenants? [2008/06/07 11:06] Sonja Strom: CDS-wide, and sim-specific? [2008/06/07 11:06] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 11:06] Sonja Strom: oh, ok [2008/06/07 11:06] Moon Adamant: and sim specific can even be more subdivided [2008/06/07 11:06] You: Is what I said to Sonja a fair assessment, Moon? And yes to 2-levels [2008/06/07 11:06] Moon Adamant: to deal with zones, typologies, detail locations, etc [2008/06/07 11:06] Sonja Strom: So what you were saying about it only having general covenants is, it would not have sim-specific ones, but only the CDS-wide ones. [2008/06/07 11:07] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 11:07] Sonja Strom: ok, I understand that better now. [2008/06/07 11:07] Moon Adamant: those are the ones we will ask you to review [2008/06/07 11:07] You: so 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:07] Moon Adamant: the rest of the document only regulates this sim [2008/06/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... so my motion this time is to get the sim's name approved first, [2008/06/07 11:08] You: May we have a motion to adopt the posted URL draft of the CN-West (Sim4) covenants, which includes applying the CDS-wide covenants as most recently included in AM? [2008/06/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and accept the covenants with Rose's typo corrections [2008/06/07 11:08] You: oops - I crossed with Gwyn [2008/06/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry jamie [2008/06/07 11:09] Jamie Palisades looks at clock - by all means let's vote on *something* [2008/06/07 11:09] You: Gwyn. taking your motion, is that one vote or two? [2008/06/07 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two votes [2008/06/07 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one on the name [2008/06/07 11:09] You: And the proposed name is? [2008/06/07 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: another on the covenant + rose's corrections + changing "CN-West" to the new name [2008/06/07 11:10] Moon Adamant: checks to see if there are more proposals [2008/06/07 11:10] You: uhhhhhhh [2008/06/07 11:10] You: how odd, gywn [2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why odd? 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:10] You: why two votes touching the name? [2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No I mean... the Covenants should reflect the new sim's name 😉 [2008/06/07 11:10] You: oh - ok got it [2008/06/07 11:10] Flyingroc Chung: one for the name, one for approving the covenant [2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's just a minor change (search & replace) [2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, FR [2008/06/07 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: So what's the name gonna be? Rocatorium? [2008/06/07 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's just to be *clear*, I don't want to say "the RA approved a covenant with typos and incorrectly specified sim name" 😀 [2008/06/07 11:11] Moon Adamant: lol~ [2008/06/07 11:11] You: OK so do we have a name? Moonus Patientam Maximus? [2008/06/07 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: roflatorium, Roc [2008/06/07 11:11] Moon Adamant: lol [2008/06/07 11:11] You: Nullus Quoram? [2008/06/07 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahahaha [2008/06/07 11:11] Cindy Ecksol likes nullus quoram! [2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: /viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1896 [2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: thread is here [2008/06/07 11:12] Rose Springvale: ;;grumbles they turned down roseville again ::: [2008/06/07 11:12] You: help me out here guys [2008/06/07 11:12] You: (Ccin please assent to recording, and hi) [2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: i actually liked 'Nyah Nyah Des' [2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:12] Cindy Ecksol: assent [2008/06/07 11:12] You: um yeah and if I didn't already have a copyright suit served on me I would too [2008/06/07 11:13] You: Oddly Caledon serves lawsuits on saberpoint [2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: to the end of the thread [2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: Symo suggests Locus Amoenus [2008/06/07 11:13] You: hm [2008/06/07 11:13] Moon Adamant: and it has already some support [2008/06/07 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was the more realistic suggestion so far, Locus Amoenus [2008/06/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades mumbles ... nice ... place? [2008/06/07 11:13] Moon Adamant: Locus Amoenus = Pleasant Place [2008/06/07 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wishful Thinking 😉 [2008/06/07 11:14] You: .. sort of like naming the truck stop cafe "Mom's", eh? [2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl [2008/06/07 11:14] Danton Sideways: too much like Locus Amoebas [2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^ [2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* [2008/06/07 11:14] Rose Springvale: the committee liked it 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:14] You: do we think there are other stakehoders who would've weighed in? [2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let's put it to the vote [2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose on my first motion: naming the sim, that the RA accepts Locus Amoenus as the name for the sim. [2008/06/07 11:14] You: You so move, Gwynners? OK [2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. [2008/06/07 11:15] You: and note the spelling [2008/06/07 11:15] Danton Sideways: Amoebas of CDS unite [2008/06/07 11:15] You: (just becuse every character is signif) [2008/06/07 11:15] Moon Adamant: see, we already have the name of the football team of that sim 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))) [2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: any seconds to my motion? [2008/06/07 11:15] You: hm go with it - and note: [2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the clock and starts to worry hehe [2008/06/07 11:16] Danton Sideways: Jamies gors with the amoebas [2008/06/07 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 [2008/06/07 11:16] You: I second it. [2008/06/07 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie! Shall we vote? 😀 [2008/06/07 11:16] You: and note this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_amoenus - as a favorable indication [2008/06/07 11:17] Danton Sideways: ooh [2008/06/07 11:17] You: any more discussion? [2008/06/07 11:17] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye. [2008/06/07 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye, too 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:17] Flyingroc Chung: What's in a name? 😉 [2008/06/07 11:18] Flyingroc Chung: aye [2008/06/07 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [2008/06/07 11:18] Sonja Strom: aye [2008/06/07 11:18] You: snickr [2008/06/07 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: NExt sim's name: Rose? 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:18] Moon Adamant: hi Sudane 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:18] Rose Springvale: smile [2008/06/07 11:18] Sudane Erato: hi 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:18] Danton Sideways: Hi Sudane [2008/06/07 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Sudane 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:18] You: Motion pases 4-0-0, subj to 7 day rule as noted above. Hi Su [2008/06/07 11:18] You: now [2008/06/07 11:18] You: Moon [2008/06/07 11:18] Moon Adamant: yes? [2008/06/07 11:18] You: do we need a backup in case of LL reject, and can THAT waita wek? [2008/06/07 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah [2008/06/07 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good thinking, Jamie!... [2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: easy to see [2008/06/07 11:19] You: *wait a week [2008/06/07 11:19] You: well they DO reject [2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: found none [2008/06/07 11:19] Sudane Erato: why should they reject it, unless its already taken? [2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: well, in that case [2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: i would suggest that we add the word 'Civitas' in front [2008/06/07 11:19] You: 🙂 OK, so , cross that bridge next week, if needed? [2008/06/07 11:20] Moon Adamant: or something like that [2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* [2008/06/07 11:20] Moon Adamant: yup [2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's see what LL says. [2008/06/07 11:20] You: Time's short and I would love to get the Guild's fourth proposal on the table [2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And now... motion on the covenant, with Rose's typo corrections, and replacing "CN-West" with "Locus Amoenus" [2008/06/07 11:20] You: yes [2008/06/07 11:20] Danton Sideways: afk [2008/06/07 11:20] Flyingroc Chung: pleasantville [2008/06/07 11:20] You: seconded [2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, jamie 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:21] You: i loved that movie! [2008/06/07 11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have discussed it a lot already, so I suggest we move to vote on the covenant... [2008/06/07 11:21] You: discussion on covenants, pointed in chat above, with minor mods as moted? [2008/06/07 11:21] Jamie Palisades looks around and hears no typing [2008/06/07 11:21] You: OK then [2008/06/07 11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks we have discussed it enough [2008/06/07 11:21] You: Members please state your vote. I vote aye. [2008/06/07 11:21] Flyingroc Chung: aye [2008/06/07 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye from me too [2008/06/07 11:23] Sonja Strom: aye [2008/06/07 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:23] You: OK. Adopted 4-0-0, subj to 7 day rule as noted above. [2008/06/07 11:23] You: Moon - the Guild has one more? [2008/06/07 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* ---- [2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: ok, next [2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: yup [2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: on the yellow cube behind Sonja [2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: you'll find Sudane's more detailed financial model for the new sim [2008/06/07 11:24] Moon Adamant: and i also asked Sudane to stop by, which she has done - thanks you 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:24] You: For the record, here - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11397 [2008/06/07 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To resume: cost of new parcels: US$0.05/square meter... 5 cents. This makes 512 parcels cost L$7552 and 1024 parcels L$15,104 (quoting Sudane) [2008/06/07 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and [2008/06/07 11:25] Sudane Erato: yes [2008/06/07 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim, per month (quoting Sudane again) [2008/06/07 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the essential thing for us to approve hehe [2008/06/07 11:25] Sudane Erato: that is a suggestion for the average tier, should you wish to impose zoning [2008/06/07 11:25] Sudane Erato: . [2008/06/07 11:25] Moon Adamant: Sudane, the covenants don't have zones [2008/06/07 11:26] Sudane Erato: ahh... makes things simpler 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:26] Moon Adamant: yes, we thought so [2008/06/07 11:26] Flyingroc Chung: What do we plan to use the excess revenue for? [2008/06/07 11:26] Moon Adamant: expansion? [2008/06/07 11:26] Rose Springvale: coffee 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: well... I mention that at the end [2008/06/07 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well we haven't paid for lots of things, lol [2008/06/07 11:27] You: recommened levels of reserves, is my short version 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: yes... [2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: and for future operating expenses [2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: when we do have operating expenses... [2008/06/07 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'm proposing a new motion... since we have the covenants approved (no zoning), I suggest that the RA approves Sudane's proposal for the cost of new land + the monthly tier on LA. [2008/06/07 11:28] Sudane Erato: it makes us much healthier to have a good reserve [2008/06/07 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that the *next* RA discusses the budget (ie. what to do with the extra revenue), since we have a budget for this term approved already anyway 😉 [2008/06/07 11:28] Sudane Erato: we do? [2008/06/07 11:28] Flyingroc Chung: how well have we tracked to that budget? [2008/06/07 11:29] You: 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:29] Sudane Erato: well, we've been positive each month [2008/06/07 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To recap: Motion on the floor: That the RA approves the pricing of the plots in Locus Amoenus as follows: cost of new parcels: US$0.05/square meter; L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim, per month [2008/06/07 11:29] You: Happy to do this a bit, but we have a specific, longer, scheduled chat about budget *next* week [2008/06/07 11:29] Sudane Erato: yes [2008/06/07 11:30] You: second for Gwyn's motion? [2008/06/07 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn points out that the discussion of the budget is NOT on today's agenda, and votes against any motion to propose to discuss it *today* 😉 [2008/06/07 11:30] You: well I will second it so we can discuss. [2008/06/07 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing that I might comment upon is to have a rough idea on how much the CDS's gross margin on the prices is.... 30% or so, right, Sudane? [2008/06/07 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would mean roughly 70% sales to break even? [2008/06/07 11:32] Sudane Erato: so [2008/06/07 11:32] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, I'm having difficulty finding sudanes earlier post on the pricing? [2008/06/07 11:32] Sudane Erato: hmmm... I did that calc... [2008/06/07 11:32] Sudane Erato: i'd have to retrieve it... but that sounds about right [2008/06/07 11:32] Moon Adamant: FR, same thread, first page [2008/06/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11397 for Sudane's detailed comments on her proposal [2008/06/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I haven't got a calculator handy, but it looks about right, Sudane 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:33] Sudane Erato: yes, thats it [2008/06/07 11:33] Sudane Erato: yes 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that aiming for a 70% occupancy is pretty reasonable [2008/06/07 11:33] You: I have two comments seeking confirmation. First, I read this, I read the underlying earlier one, and I note our detailed land price chats last RA meeting. It's my impression that these proposals are generaly consiste with our rough consensus expressed last week - and that there's no dispute on the numbers or prudence of the recommended reserve levels. Is that a fair summary? [2008/06/07 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I subscribe to your words... it's my understanding as well 😀 [2008/06/07 11:34] Flyingroc Chung: what is the recommended reserve level? [2008/06/07 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 months of tier, FR [2008/06/07 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless there was new legislation passed [2008/06/07 11:34] Sudane Erato: well... yes [2008/06/07 11:34] Sudane Erato: but we are way beyond that [2008/06/07 11:35] Flyingroc Chung: we are currently above that level... [2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: yes... [2008/06/07 11:35] Moon Adamant: yes, because we need to expand as well [2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: my intent is that there be a "margin" each month... [2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: rather than the concept of adding to reserves [2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: simply because revenues each month may fall short [2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies.... just 1 month of tier actually: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... age=NL+4-6 [2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: for example, not all parcels may be sold [2008/06/07 11:36] Cindy Ecksol raises hand [2008/06/07 11:36] You: Roc, done with your question? If so, Cindy next [2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So legally the Treasurer has to have 4 * US$295 in funds 😀 [2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: yes [2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: well... [2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: US $1180 [2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: 2x 195 + 1x 295 [2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry! yes! [2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead* [2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we have 5 times that in reserve 😀 [2008/06/07 11:37] Sudane Erato: yes, which i am very pleased about [2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm quite happy with the pricing as presented, and definitely will vote yes on Sudane's recommended prices for LA 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:37] Jamie Palisades mutters ... rah solvency, rah rah [2008/06/07 11:37] Sudane Erato: 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles* [2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy had a question... [2008/06/07 11:37] Rose Springvale thinks of ways to spend money... [2008/06/07 11:37] Cindy Ecksol: I'd just comment first that the "reserve" is a minimum, not a maximum. And second that having a margin allows us to allocate funds for stuff like publicity, parties, special events....something that we have not been doing much of this term. [2008/06/07 11:37] You: OK I will take Roc's Q as answered then. Cindy? [2008/06/07 11:37] Sudane Erato: we are buying this sim without borrowing [2008/06/07 11:37] Moon Adamant: exactly Cindy! [2008/06/07 11:37] Rose Springvale: yayyy!!! [2008/06/07 11:38] Sudane Erato: yes, I agree completely Cindy [2008/06/07 11:38] Moon Adamant: and paying Guild work 😉 [2008/06/07 11:38] Cindy Ecksol: yes, of course. so please approve a tier that will take those things into account! [2008/06/07 11:38] Sudane Erato: i think we will evolve to a much larger part of our budget being other than tier [2008/06/07 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn most definitely agrees. MT has expressed the same issue earlier before: people are still paying events out of their pocket [2008/06/07 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway [2008/06/07 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's for the budget discussion next week? .... 😉 [2008/06/07 11:38] Sudane Erato: yes [2008/06/07 11:39] You: 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:39] Flyingroc Chung: seems to me we have beenhaving budget surpluses and not spending it [2008/06/07 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn quotes herself: Motion on the floor: That the RA approves the pricing of the plots in Locus Amoenus as follows: cost of new parcels: US$0.05/square meter; L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim, per month [2008/06/07 11:40] Flyingroc Chung: so why not have chepaer tier to allowa broader range of people to beable to live in the CDS? [2008/06/07 11:40] Rose Springvale raises hand [2008/06/07 11:40] Sonja Strom: That was one of our goals with this sim. [2008/06/07 11:40] Moon Adamant: sorry guys [2008/06/07 11:41] Sudane Erato: 4.35 is pretty cheap [2008/06/07 11:41] Moon Adamant: this is a double prim sim [2008/06/07 11:41] Cindy Ecksol thinks $10 per month is not eliminating anyone who can afford an internet connection [2008/06/07 11:41] You: Rosee? [2008/06/07 11:41] Flyingroc Chung: one of the reasons that allowed me to join nburg when I was a poor grad studaent was the dirt cheap rates 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:41] Moon Adamant: 512 m2 costs L$2.227 [2008/06/07 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices her own words last week on FR's issue: "we should compete in services, not in prices" â€” and adds Sudane's comment: "2. L$4.35 is a VERY reasonable price. Back to SLNE, our monthly tier is L$5.90, and will probably rise soon. AND, again, SLNE is single primmed. The rates in the CDS are a bargain.... very much a "peoples' rate"." [2008/06/07 11:41] Moon Adamant: and 1024 m2 the double: 4.454 per month [2008/06/07 11:41] You: ahem 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:41] Rose Springvale: if you are going to consider lower tier, my request is that you do it across the board.. no reason for old timers to subsidize new people with more prims! [2008/06/07 11:42] Sudane Erato: yes... i really would emphasize that [2008/06/07 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely agrees with Rose [2008/06/07 11:42] You: done, rose? [2008/06/07 11:42] Sudane Erato: hehe... yes Rose, I agree :).. [2008/06/07 11:42] Rose Springvale: done [2008/06/07 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think that Sudane's post pretty much addressed our issue last week: we ARE proposing lower rates than usual SL-wide [2008/06/07 11:42] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 11:42] Sudane Erato: yes [2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: About 30% lower! [2008/06/07 11:43] You: Frankly I think one's view depensd on whether one wants each SIM to foot & balance, or one might be willing to spend down some reserves from 1-2-3 to subsidize #4 [2008/06/07 11:43] Moon Adamant: for a land which has covenants, public infrastructure, self-governation... [2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly, Moon [2008/06/07 11:43] Moon Adamant: and double prims [2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND double prims, indeed! [2008/06/07 11:43] Moon Adamant: so, i don't see what are you complaining at [2008/06/07 11:43] Sonja Strom: and is, at least hopefully, high-quality in appearance. [2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: yes!! [2008/06/07 11:44] Sudane Erato: we really must understand that prims, not square footage, are what you pay for in SL [2008/06/07 11:44] You: Roc I think your take *would* lead us to a subsidize-and-spend-down-reserve type plan. [2008/06/07 11:44] You: And I think that option's been rejected in this recommndation. [2008/06/07 11:44] Moon Adamant has tons of textures already to prepare for packs [2008/06/07 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Sudane [2008/06/07 11:44] Rose Springvale whispers.... and a real community [2008/06/07 11:44] Moon Adamant looks wistfully at the green cube for altenstadt redeployment [2008/06/07 11:44] You: More from FR? [2008/06/07 11:44] Flyingroc Chung: not spend down the reserve... but I'd rather a smaller margin [2008/06/07 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose: with real drama, too 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well FR [2008/06/07 11:45] You: (Wistful is the word alright) [2008/06/07 11:45] Sonja Strom: LOL Gwyn [2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a smaller margin means that we have to go for a higher occupancy [2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 70% is pretty reasonable [2008/06/07 11:45] Sudane Erato: yes... we will not always be collecting all this [2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, there IS some rotation in the CDS [2008/06/07 11:45] Sudane Erato: and yet our tier *will* always be 295 US$ [2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.... [2008/06/07 11:45] Flyingroc Chung: I'm concerned that we are a building a gated community [2008/06/07 11:46] Jamie Palisades whispers to Gwyn nooooooooo - Nullus Dramatis Politae Crappus! [2008/06/07 11:46] Moon Adamant: FR [2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL Jamie [2008/06/07 11:46] Moon Adamant: how can you say that with NFS with 144m2 plots?! [2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True... nobody sells those any more on private islands [2008/06/07 11:46] You: we're still debating Roc's point? any more words on this one? [2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And haven't for ages [2008/06/07 11:46] Sudane Erato: which remain unsold [2008/06/07 11:46] Flyingroc Chung: 144m2 plots? [2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, FR [2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have one! [2008/06/07 11:46] Moon Adamant: yes,FR [2008/06/07 11:47] Moon Adamant: the proletarians live in NFS [2008/06/07 11:47] Sudane Erato: yay! 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:47] Moon Adamant: where plots have 144 m2 and 35 prims [2008/06/07 11:47] Jamie Palisades snikers [2008/06/07 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's hard to get 1024 m2 plots on private islands even.... and we're launching a whole sim with lots of 512 m2 [2008/06/07 11:47] Sonja Strom: I would like to bring up something Gwyneth said earlier, which seems true to me: "... we ARE proposing lower rates than usual SL-wide." [2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: grins [2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: thannks cindy [2008/06/07 11:47] Moon Adamant: hi Naftali [2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: its foggy as usual [2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: hello all [2008/06/07 11:48] You: (Hi Naf. Please assent to being recorded, if you speak.) [2008/06/07 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Sonja, we are. We're really "old fashioned" here: small plots, very low tiers â€” and a whole lot of package of services which nobody else in SL gives! [2008/06/07 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Naf!!) [2008/06/07 11:48] Sonja Strom: hi Naftali 🙂 alt-ctrl-shift-minus [2008/06/07 11:48] You: ahem - OK you lot we are going incircles a little, nd it i late. Any more divussion of Roc's question? [2008/06/07 11:48] Naftali Torok: yes i did already smiles [2008/06/07 11:48] Naftali Torok: thanksks [2008/06/07 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I really don't think we're a "gated community" but really one that has a bit for everybody [2008/06/07 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree, we're beating around the bush lol [2008/06/07 11:50] You: ready to vote n Gwyn' motion to accept the financials? Which I note is land pricing, NOT approval to buyt he sim from LL now [2008/06/07 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only way to go even further down on the prices would be to have 'older citizens' in the more expensive sims to subsidise the new plots. But as Rose pointed out, that's hardly fair... [2008/06/07 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... I vote aye [2008/06/07 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and the next motion will be to buy the sim hehe -- tahnks, Jamie, for pointing that out 😉 ) [2008/06/07 11:50] You: members please state their vote. I vote aye. [2008/06/07 11:51] Jamie Palisades looks towards Roc and Sonja [2008/06/07 11:51] Flyingroc Chung: can I take my 7-day vote? [2008/06/07 11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmpf 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: chicken!!! lol [2008/06/07 11:51] Sonja Strom: lol [2008/06/07 11:51] Sudane Erato: 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:51] You: huh dunno actually 🙂 is that available to persons not absent? [2008/06/07 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't think so, but let me check [2008/06/07 11:52] You: all you political hacks have been here longer than me 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:52] Sonja Strom: says Gwyn, who is chicken of participating in the Forum... [2008/06/07 11:52] Flyingroc Chung: our official mascot is a chicken, after all... [2008/06/07 11:52] Sudane Erato: hehe... yes [2008/06/07 11:52] Sonja Strom: hahaa [2008/06/07 11:53] Moon Adamant: Mr. LRA, may i ask a few more minutes in the session to finally present the altenstadt redeployment plan too? [2008/06/07 11:53] You: Moon, we need to do this - then a possible motion to approve sim purchase - then if people remain, we can ask them to do that. [2008/06/07 11:53] Moon Adamant: ok [2008/06/07 11:53] You: Do we have an take on the 7 day rule, as applied to people presen? [2008/06/07 11:54] Sonja Strom: My understanding was that we had that right at all times... [2008/06/07 11:54] Cindy Ecksol seems so silly to allow 7-day vote when someone is present.... [2008/06/07 11:54] Moon Adamant: i only remember it being used when people were absent [2008/06/07 11:54] Moon Adamant: from my term [2008/06/07 11:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, you can always abstain now. [2008/06/07 11:54] Rose Springvale: there was an amendment by beathan and discussion, but i don't know what happened with it [2008/06/07 11:55] Sonja Strom: but Cindy, not allowing that would give an advantage to those who did not come to the RA meetings... [2008/06/07 11:55] Sonja Strom: it would encourage non-attendance. [2008/06/07 11:55] Rose Springvale sighs at RA members... [2008/06/07 11:55] You: May I have a pointer to the rule text, or we will sit here while I dig, smile [2008/06/07 11:55] Cindy Ecksol sighs too.... [2008/06/07 11:55] Rose Springvale: i'll look [2008/06/07 11:55] You: sigh all you like: Roc asked for it [2008/06/07 11:56] Flyingroc Chung: alright, so we get unblocked here [2008/06/07 11:56] Flyingroc Chung: I vote nay [2008/06/07 11:56] Sonja Strom: any constitutional experts here? [2008/06/07 11:56] You: OK simpler. [2008/06/07 11:56] Sonja Strom: OK, nevermind. [2008/06/07 11:56] You: Sonja you going to put us through the same thing? [2008/06/07 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Sonja, it would be easy if that information were all in the same place) [2008/06/07 11:56] You: 🙂 and ye s- TOO many 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye [2008/06/07 11:57] Sonja Strom: In general I trust those who have spoken, but I also see no need to rush this through before we feel good about it. [2008/06/07 11:57] Sonja Strom: I will support my colleague and vote no for the time being. [2008/06/07 11:57] Sonja Strom: "nay" [2008/06/07 11:57] You: OK then 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:57] You: here is where we are [2008/06/07 11:57] You: Motion fails 2-2-0 but [2008/06/07 11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3 votes go on 7-day [2008/06/07 11:58] You: 2 votes are on 7 day rule. [2008/06/07 11:58] You: 3? [2008/06/07 11:58] You: BV did not request. [2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry [2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. [2008/06/07 11:58] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, he should still get to vote, no? [2008/06/07 11:58] You: OK then 🙂 Can I safaly assume that a vote to buy the sim is premature given the disposition of this motion? [2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, I withdraw the motion to allow the Treasurer to buy the new sim today 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Postponed to next week [2008/06/07 11:59] Cindy Ecksol sighs [2008/06/07 11:59] You: FR, sigh, I do not think EVERY vote that someone misses in unannounced absence AUTOMATICALLY gives them a second bite. I think they have to request it. [2008/06/07 11:59] You: BUT [2008/06/07 11:59] Sudane Erato: well, I would object to buying, not only if these things were not decided... [2008/06/07 11:59] You: None of you long time RA jockeys can point me to the 7 day rule 🙂 [2008/06/07 11:59] Sudane Erato: but also if an occupaytion date was not set [2008/06/07 11:59] Flyingroc Chung: it's in the really old rules [2008/06/07 11:59] You: so I am going to do my own research - expect more on this next week 😀 [2008/06/07 11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no, FR, it was added later [2008/06/07 11:59] Sudane Erato: hehe [2008/06/07 12:00] Moon Adamant: ok, may i kindly request then a few minutes more to present altenstradt redeployment Plan (ARP)? [2008/06/07 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let's see if we can approve that at least... [2008/06/07 12:00] Jamie Palisades does not believe in the Easter Bunny, Father Christmas, intangible unwritten constitutional principles, or unlocatable laws 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:00] Sudane Erato: not Christmas??? [2008/06/07 12:01] Sudane Erato: [2008/06/07 12:01] Moon Adamant waits [2008/06/07 12:01] You: ..not the Santa art susu [2008/06/07 12:01] Flyingroc Chung: "1. Is the topic ready for a vote? If Yes, the topic is referred to the members. If all present concur, the vote may occur at the in-world meeting. Otherwise, or if one of the members not present has made a public request to do so prior to the meeting, the members vote before the next in world meeting. The results are published in the forum, along with how each member voted." [2008/06/07 12:01] You: Members, we are over time. [2008/06/07 12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn points to FR that Altenstadt will have sub-512m2 plots for sale [2008/06/07 12:01] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... Procedures [2008/06/07 12:02] You: Moon has asked us on behalf of the Gild to hear the Altenstadt plan. Are you willing to extend 15 mins? [2008/06/07 12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I agree, Jamie [2008/06/07 12:02] You: *guild - sorry, tired [2008/06/07 12:02] Naftali Torok: np, 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:02] You: I hear no objections. [2008/06/07 12:02] Moon Adamant: ok ---- [2008/06/07 12:03] You: Before we do though [2008/06/07 12:03] You: 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:03] You: I note our Chancellor has joined us [2008/06/07 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!!!! [2008/06/07 12:03] You: Welcome Alexi [2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: yay [2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: hi Alex [2008/06/07 12:03] Alexicon Kurka: hello everyone, I had motherboard problems [2008/06/07 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Pip as well 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: hi Pip 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:03] Alexicon Kurka: but managed to make it [2008/06/07 12:03] Naftali Torok: hello pip, alex [2008/06/07 12:03] You: We did not see you in the first few hours of the meeting, so need to reschedule your report. [2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: Mr LRA: may i start? [2008/06/07 12:04] Pip Torok: hi everyone [2008/06/07 12:04] You: Hey, it's SL. Can you commit to the 21st Jun, Alexi? [2008/06/07 12:04] Alexicon Kurka: 21st I am afraid not [2008/06/07 12:04] You: we have Sudane next week 🙂 Budget stuff. You'd be most welcome then too [2008/06/07 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁 [2008/06/07 12:04] You: so on the 28th we should get ... [2008/06/07 12:04] You: your reports for the last, what, 3 months? [2008/06/07 12:04] Alexicon Kurka: sure 28th it'll be [2008/06/07 12:04] Alexicon Kurka: 😉 [2008/06/07 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles* [2008/06/07 12:05] You: OK good. 09h00 SLT, and thanks, I will ask that we put you first. ---- [2008/06/07 12:05] You: Moon, Altenstadt? [2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant waits [2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: ok [2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: if you touch the green cube behind FR~ [2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: you will see Sleazy's plan [2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: which was the result of a long thread in the forums [2008/06/07 12:06] Naftali Torok: great i see it [2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: mind that our proposal - the Guild's - is just to parcel these plots - their use or not as embassy row is for you RA to discuss [2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: if you pull the drawing down [2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: you will have a table showing area of plots and prims [2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: and totals [2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: we need more or less 433 prims [2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: now [2008/06/07 12:07] Jamie Palisades notes for the record - URL is: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=ddg6kg6c_121db9xkrgt [2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: today i looked at NFS prim bank [2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: and it has 556 prims left [2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: BUT [2008/06/07 12:08] No room to sit here, try another spot. [2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: the new design of the are will not need the mistake bridge, which occupies 104 prims [2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: and also [2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: a new version of biergarten is made and has been see and approved by our chancellor [2008/06/07 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:09] Moon Adamant: which will reduce the current occupation of that plot of 519 prims to about 250 [2008/06/07 12:09] Moon Adamant: to sum up [2008/06/07 12:09] Moon Adamant: by removing the Mistake Bridge and replacing biergarten [2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: we achive a prim bank of 860 prims [2008/06/07 12:10] Naftali Torok: not bad [2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: which, when the 433 prims of the altenstadt are used [2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: does not differ significantly from our current prim bank [2008/06/07 12:10] You: Q: "mistake bridge"? Is that the bridge over the Phsyically Impossible Pond? [2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: sothe Guild's request [2008/06/07 12:11] Sudane Erato: yes 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Jamie! [2008/06/07 12:11] Jamie Palisades nods, grinning [2008/06/07 12:11] Moon Adamant: yes, i built it by mistake 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:11] Cindy Ecksol thinks bjerkel will be very pleased 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops did we lose Sonja?... [2008/06/07 12:11] Moon Adamant: NFS looked a no-man's land that day! [2008/06/07 12:11] You: well then, I have a suggestion which I wil make to you afetr the meeting, Moon, grin [2008/06/07 12:11] Moon Adamant: so my request to the RA [2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn points out that we're not quorate any more :/ [2008/06/07 12:12] Moon Adamant: is that you approve the plan [2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah wb Sonja!!! [2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew [2008/06/07 12:12] Moon Adamant: while Chancellor here present as well approves the removal of the bridge and the replacement of the bierhaus [2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the motion for now is: to approve the plan for Altenstadt [2008/06/07 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the parcel sizes as proposed [2008/06/07 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and request the Guild to build it as per their own specs 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (pricing and covenants as per NFS' Inner City covenants) [2008/06/07 12:13] You: motion made. I will second it so we can discuss. Discussion? [2008/06/07 12:14] Moon Adamant: Guild will build infrastructure and garden and pond [2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... some questions... [2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, I meant: the public spaces [2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we have an issue in NFS, [2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is that inner city plots cannot be 'vacant' [2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: they should have a standard Fachwerk [2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My question is... do we (I mean the Content Archivist) has a Fachwerk ready for each plot? [2008/06/07 12:15] Moon Adamant: Sudane has fachwerks for that case [2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'm happy with that, if Sudane is fine with it 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:15] Sudane Erato: yes, i've just been filling empty parcels with placeholder builds...Moon's [2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, question answered [2008/06/07 12:15] Moon Adamant: don't you have Dianne's too? [2008/06/07 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, IP on Dianne's work might be.... mmmh 'tricky' [2008/06/07 12:16] Sudane Erato: no, Dianne never made hers copiable [2008/06/07 12:16] Moon Adamant: ok [2008/06/07 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, so long as we DO have A standard Fachwerk, and we can comply with the covenants... I have no objections [2008/06/07 12:16] Sudane Erato: I only have Dianne's walls [2008/06/07 12:16] Moon Adamant: and there's Guild's builders to build fachwerks if necessary [2008/06/07 12:16] Moon Adamant: on demand [2008/06/07 12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I'm ready to vote on approving the Altenstadt plan as proposed 😀 [2008/06/07 12:17] You: alrighty [2008/06/07 12:17] You: other comments or questions? [2008/06/07 12:18] You: Moon, briefly, my same standard 'public access' uestion again - about how long was this shown to who, to get feedback? [2008/06/07 12:18] Moon Adamant: the public plan? [2008/06/07 12:18] Moon Adamant: about a year [2008/06/07 12:18] Sonja Strom: I am glad this work is being done, especially since we seem to be a bit lacking in space for new citizens. [2008/06/07 12:18] You: the thing you want us to approve today [2008/06/07 12:19] Sudane Erato: no... there are a number of parcels available [2008/06/07 12:19] Moon Adamant: there were even public meetings on this at Trostki's [2008/06/07 12:19] Moon Adamant: Jamie, that thread has a year [2008/06/07 12:19] Moon Adamant: let me try and find the exact date of the post [2008/06/07 12:19] Sudane Erato: yes, there were multiple plans presented and discussed [2008/06/07 12:20] Sudane Erato: . [2008/06/07 12:20] Sudane Erato: only, the discussion has been stale for some months now [2008/06/07 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙁 [2008/06/07 12:20] You: Ok - but it has been "out there" for citizens to opine on, yes? [2008/06/07 12:20] Sudane Erato: but its also been continuously on the agenda of the NG [2008/06/07 12:21] Jamie Palisades waits [2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since some of our fellow RA members have been complaining about the lack of small, cheap plots in the CDS... I propose that we definitely approve this once and for all, to have our esteemed colleagues happy about cheap plots 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:21] Moon Adamant: the post of the plan was made [2008/06/07 12:21] Moon Adamant: by Sleazy_Writer on Mon May 21, 2007 6:21 am [2008/06/07 12:21] You: Good 🙂 thx [2008/06/07 12:21] You: ready to vote? [2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 [2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes "aye" on immediate re-development of Altenstadt 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [2008/06/07 12:22] You: Members please state their vote on the Altstadt plan as pointed and described above [2008/06/07 12:22] Flyingroc Chung: aye [2008/06/07 12:22] You: 🙂 I vote aye [2008/06/07 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [2008/06/07 12:22] Sonja Strom: aye [2008/06/07 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:22] Moon Adamant: thank you 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:22] You: OK. Motion passes 4-0-0, subj to 7 day adjustsment [2008/06/07 12:22] Sudane Erato: finally!! :)) [2008/06/07 12:22] You: AND [2008/06/07 12:22] Sudane Erato: isn't 4 a majority? [2008/06/07 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sudane [2008/06/07 12:22] Moon Adamant: yes [2008/06/07 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so it won't interfere [2008/06/07 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just for the record, we'll have to add those votes later on the report [2008/06/07 12:23] You: thank you on behalf of ALL of us, RA and CDS, to Moon, Symo and the Guild team for all of this productive consructive design work d [2008/06/07 12:23] Moon Adamant: but of course the votes of the absent members must be duly registered 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:23] You: (I know Gwyn, and yes, it won't change the outcome.) [2008/06/07 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the Guild can start to hack & slash at those stale, old prims, with the Chancellor's blessing, of course 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:23] You: Now [2008/06/07 12:23] Sudane Erato: request to be excused 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:24] You: Thank you all for your patience today 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:24] Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:24] You: you bet [2008/06/07 12:24] You: By the way I have two brief important informal announcements when we close. [2008/06/07 12:24] Alexicon Kurka agrees with the removal of the bridge and the replacement of the bierhaus [2008/06/07 12:24] You: immediately after adjoruning 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr Chancellor 🙂 [2008/06/07 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to adjourn [2008/06/07 12:24] You: Members, may we adjourn (but give me 2 mins for announcements please)>
[2008/06/07 12:24] Moon Adamant: Thank you Mr. Chancellor 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:25] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/06/07 12:25] Alexicon Kurka: congrats the NG for this step
[2008/06/07 12:25] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/06/07 12:25] You: OK – adjourned
* * *

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 14. 2008

Agenda

SPECIAL ITEM

2. Treasurer’s presentation on CDS budget (40 mins: 09h20 – 10h00)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS

3. Commerce Commission recommendations (15 mins.: 10h00 – 10h15)
— Drafts expected, carried over from last week, see transcript
4. Sim4 economics/purchase conditions, any additional motions (10 mins: 10h15 – 10h25)

NEW ITEMS

5. Elections reform bills (20 mins: 10h25 – 10h45)
— Patroklus Murakami proposal (/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1886)
— Elections Commission recommendations if any
6. Other?
7. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 12h00

Transcript

====
Transcript of 14 June 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
Note this meeting was not quorate, but we conducted a useful informal discussion of the CDS budget anway.
====

[informal transcript with permission] [2008/06/14 8:55] You: Well, we are starting to see RA fatigue around the edges 🙂 So we will see who shows up. I’ll be mildly embarassed, but only mildly, if quorum fails 🙂
[2008/06/14 8:56] You: I am sending my TP reminders now
[2008/06/14 9:01] Jamie Palisades smiles mildly – I have send my IM reminder to each of the five, none of who appears online. Five because Gwyn sent regrets.
[2008/06/14 9:01] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:03] Sudane Erato: hi Danton 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:03] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie and Sudane
[2008/06/14 9:03] You: Good morning Danton – we are just laying side bets on whether our threat to talk about money today drove everyone off 😀
[2008/06/14 9:03] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 9:03] Danton Sideways: Jamie is (away) (lost in IM) judging from tags
[2008/06/14 9:04] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:04] You: done with that now 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:04] Danton Sideways: I would have thought that would bring them in droves
[2008/06/14 9:04] Sudane Erato: hehe… yeah right
* * *
[2008/06/14 9:14] You: I see none of our esteemed coleagues online and have received no e-mail or IM answers, so with a few more minutes I will waive a scepter and declare this one a bust 🙂 with apologies to Sudane and the citizenry …
[2008/06/14 9:14] Sudane Erato: np here 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:15] Sudane Erato: hey FR 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:15] Danton Sideways: Hi FR
[2008/06/14 9:18] Sudane Erato: hi Jon 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:18] You: Nice of you folks to come – but I note as of 09h17 SLT that only two of the 7 RA members appear inworld. I have three suggestions. 🙂
* * *
[2008/06/14 9:19] Jon Seattle: Hi Sudane, Jamie, Danton, Pat, Flying
[2008/06/14 9:19] You: 😀
[2008/06/14 9:19] Danton Sideways: Hi Jon
[2008/06/14 9:19] Flyingroc Chung: hey jon
[2008/06/14 9:19] Sudane Erato: heavy duty discussion going on here 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:19] Patroklus Murakami threw his copy of ‘Capital’ away a long time ago…
[2008/06/14 9:19] Danton Sideways: well of course if we reach “the singularity” all problems dissappear
[2008/06/14 9:19] You: suggestion #1, we agree this is a bust at 09h20
[2008/06/14 9:19] You: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: oh, and we’re having such fun!
[2008/06/14 9:20] Sudane Erato: its 9:20
[2008/06/14 9:20] Jon Seattle: well, most of the deciders are not here 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: so… why are our esteemed RA members not here?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: it’s 9:20?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Jon Seattle: yes
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: 1) end of term blues?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: I dont wake up this early for *real* work… sigh
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: 2) fear of electoral reform?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 9:21] Patroklus Murakami: 3) technical difficulties?
[2008/06/14 9:21] Danton Sideways: lol
[2008/06/14 9:21] You: Ha ha – suggestion #2, we ask Sudane if she’s willing to proceed – that being what most of us came to hear, and the presentation going into the record ANYWAY
[2008/06/14 9:21] Danton Sideways: do have the right?
[2008/06/14 9:21] Sudane Erato: thats fine with me too
[2008/06/14 9:21] Danton Sideways: you*
[2008/06/14 9:21] Patroklus Murakami: i’m always interested to hear what sudane has to say 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:21] You: (if she is willing, given that she was kind enough to show up, unlike some of our colleagues)
[2008/06/14 9:21] Jon Seattle: Fine with me 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:21] You: @ Danton – yes but not as the official RA 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:22] Danton Sideways: “on the record”?
[2008/06/14 9:22] You: suggestion #3, I am going to start scheduling meetings BIweekly as I threatened previously 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:22] Flyingroc Chung: Just means we’ll post the transcript anyway
[2008/06/14 9:23] Danton Sideways: oops better watch what I say then 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:23] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:23] You: biweekly will have some other effects, about which I’ll comment in the forums 🙂 and my colleaguges can overrule me if they like … if they show up
[2008/06/14 9:24] You: @danton again – yes, exactly 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:24] You: so
[2008/06/14 9:24] Flyingroc Chung: we could just overrule you by showing up once a week
[2008/06/14 9:24] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 9:24] Patroklus Murakami: well, you’re only committed to having biweekly meetings in the constitution. will you be able to enact electoral reform in time for the elections tho if u go biweekly?
[2008/06/14 9:24] You: 🙂 I declare this meeting failed for lack of quorum – and invite all to remain to hear Sudane’s helpful informal presentation
[2008/06/14 9:25] Patroklus Murakami: clock is ticking, tick-tock tick-tock….
[2008/06/14 9:25] You: Pat I would say “no” offhand, but have not counted days
[2008/06/14 9:25] Sudane Erato: kk
[2008/06/14 9:25] You: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:25] Sudane Erato: should we start?
[2008/06/14 9:25] Jon Seattle: Sure 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:25] Sudane Erato: ok…. well…
[2008/06/14 9:26] Sudane Erato: this presentation is really to do with what I’d call a budget framework
[2008/06/14 9:26] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens gratefully
[2008/06/14 9:26] Sudane Erato: setting the basic framework of what money we have… where the different parts go…
[2008/06/14 9:26] Sudane Erato: and how much we have available for “operational discretionary” budget
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: i don’t really attempt to go to that
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: since the discretionary budget comes from priorities that the people have
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: I’m just the “money techie”
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: so…
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: we start at the obvious begginning… how much money do we have?
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: slide one

— slide 1 —
[attachment=2]14june08Slide1.PNG[/attachment] [2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: i trust everyone can see?
[2008/06/14 9:28] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: rezzed ok?
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: great
[2008/06/14 9:29] Jon Seattle: looks good.
[2008/06/14 9:29] You: (we will post the images too)
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: when we first started Neualtenburg…
[2008/06/14 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: not me, but I’m having technical difficultires
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: the budget was a total crap shoot
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: cause we had no experience
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: now we have the huge benefit of experience…
[2008/06/14 9:30] Sudane Erato: and I feel a primary value is that the revenue projection be based on experience…
[2008/06/14 9:30] Sudane Erato: rather than what a sim “MIGHT” bring in… such as what we’ve discussed for the LV fees
[2008/06/14 9:30] Sudane Erato: so
[2008/06/14 9:31] Sudane Erato: you can see, if you can see…
[2008/06/14 9:31] Sudane Erato: that I’ve looked at Nove thru April to see what we collect in tier
[2008/06/14 9:31] Sudane Erato: and base all our talk on monthly numbers… averages
[2008/06/14 9:32] Sudane Erato: turns out that during that time… we averaged US$930 collections per month
[2008/06/14 9:32] Sudane Erato: now… what is that time interesting?
[2008/06/14 9:32] Sudane Erato: well, the first month of tier collections for AM was Dec
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: meaning that 5 of th 6 months, we were collecting for 3 sims
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: thats almost exactly analygous to the situation now
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: where we’re about to start collecting for 4 sims
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: so…
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: I think its a fair assumption to project revenues of 930 x 4/3
[2008/06/14 9:34] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: or US$1240/month
[2008/06/14 9:34] Jon Seattle: makes sense
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: all makes ense?
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: good
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: next

—- slide 2—-
[attachment=1]14june08Slide2.PNG[/attachment] [2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: absolute first thing to determine is our fixed costs… we don’t exist if we don’t pay tier
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: and thankfully, at this time its our only fixed cost
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: so I’ve listed the tier costs there
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: including LV, it will be US980… or 79%
[2008/06/14 9:36] Sudane Erato: 79% of revenues
[2008/06/14 9:36] Sudane Erato: that leaves 21% for the next step
[2008/06/14 9:37] Sudane Erato: kk… the first part of the next step is to establish a agreement… a community decision… that we want our reserves to grow
[2008/06/14 9:37] Sudane Erato: some might say… lets just keep our budget in the black
[2008/06/14 9:37] Sudane Erato: i propose that if we can, we plan to do better than that

—-slide 3—-
[attachment=0]14june08Slide3.PNG[/attachment] [2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: obviously, most communities in RL can’t manage to do better
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: but I think that we can… and in fact, we have for our whole existence
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: only… without a budget policy
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: if we’re looking at doing a real budget
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: I think that some conviction needs to be there to set aside for reserves
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: i’ve listed the justifications
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: can everyone read them?
[2008/06/14 9:39] Jon Seattle: is it appropriate also to count the value of assets?
[2008/06/14 9:39] Flyingroc Chung: how much reserves do we have currently?
[2008/06/14 9:39] Jon Seattle: yes
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: we have about US$5000
[2008/06/14 9:40] Jon Seattle: after the new island purchase?
[2008/06/14 9:40] Sudane Erato: assets… hmm… thats an interesting question in SL
[2008/06/14 9:40] Sudane Erato: no… briefly, the asset amount will dip
[2008/06/14 9:40] Sudane Erato: and then go back up as the land is sold
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: from experience we know that the land will get paid for in probably less than 2 months
[2008/06/14 9:41] Patroklus Murakami: can read em
[2008/06/14 9:41] You: hm
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: what they call “fixed” assets… alnd, buildings, software…
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: *land
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: thats much more a problem to value
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: sime could be resold
[2008/06/14 9:42] You: assuming, of course,that the 42-small-parcels lot sells *like* the 20-big-ones did
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: yes… but i predict it will, eventually
[2008/06/14 9:42] Jon Seattle: although I would assume that each island is worth at least $500, very conservatively
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: and i have not factored in the “profit” we gain by reselling abandoned land
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: yes… true Jon
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: but… its like your home…
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: you’re unlikely to sell it and retrieve your money
[2008/06/14 9:43] Jon Seattle: of course.. we would not like to sell 🙂 just counting capital assets.
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: yeah… exactly
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: and some of that value surely does relate to my list there
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: in extremeity… we COULD sell a sim..
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: although that cuts our revenue base
[2008/06/14 9:44] Flyingroc Chung: can you explain what “surity for our commiments” mena?
[2008/06/14 9:44] You: hm – your list gives us some concepts – but does not much suggest a methodolgy for “how much ie enough”
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: anyway… I strongly invite additions to my list here
[2008/06/14 9:44] You: I will wait for FR’s Q, I guess 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: “surity for our commitments”… hmm
[2008/06/14 9:44] You: then I’d like to get back to “amount”
[2008/06/14 9:45] Sudane Erato: i mean basically that with the money in hand, we can guarantee performance..
[2008/06/14 9:45] Sudane Erato: related to the other point
[2008/06/14 9:45] Sudane Erato: like things placed in escrow to gauarentee delivery of something
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: my over all point here is that we should have some policy to budget in such a way that this “reserve” grows
[2008/06/14 9:46] You: Su, I unberstand the surety and bank-ish idea, but no-one is pursuing that at present, nor even in prospect, correct?
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: if possible
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: pursuing that?
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: it simply “is”
[2008/06/14 9:47] Sudane Erato: and i’d like it to be existing through a conscious decision on the part of the community… rather than just by chance
[2008/06/14 9:47] Sudane Erato: hi MT 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:47] You: Sorry, Mrs. Clinton: what “is” the “is” there?
[2008/06/14 9:48] You: 😀
[2008/06/14 9:48] Sudane Erato: anyway… like I said… these points can be discussed more… I’d love a finance committee to do this with
[2008/06/14 9:48] You: And hello MT — we declared the meeting a loss but have been benefitting from Sudane’s informal budget presentation anyway
[2008/06/14 9:48] Flyingroc Chung: so we currently have enough reserves to pay for several months of tier, or several additional sims
[2008/06/14 9:48] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/14 9:48] Jon Seattle: Ah, Jamie was talking about potential public banking enterprise — currently not allowed as I understand it
[2008/06/14 9:48] Sudane Erato: that’s right
[2008/06/14 9:49] Sudane Erato: yes… potential banking sponsorship is one area that would benefit
[2008/06/14 9:49] Sudane Erato: and..
[2008/06/14 9:49] Sudane Erato: its banning is only temporary, i’d suggest
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: anyway… the justification for this is a on going topic
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: so let me move on
[2008/06/14 9:50] You: um Su?
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: yes?
[2008/06/14 9:50] You: One quick Q on reserves
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: sure
[2008/06/14 9:50] You: Just checking to be sure I did not miss a point …
[2008/06/14 9:51] You: … I do not see how your points, meritorious though they are, really point to a *methodology* for determing a”safe” minimum reserve *amount*. Did I miss something?
[2008/06/14 9:51] You: Because ultimately any decision wll be … a number 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:52] Sudane Erato: thats correct… I have no proposal for a methodolgy
[2008/06/14 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: what is step 3b then?
* * *

[2008/06/14 9:52] Sudane Erato: only a concept that they exist and grow
[2008/06/14 9:52] Sudane Erato: the methodolgy is simply my gut feeling… which is a frail excuse, i know
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: but… that’s my limitation… i use my instincts in much of my money management
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: and often can’t explain it
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: its something that should be done collectively
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: hence one of my motives for a finance committee
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: so that said

[slide 4] [attachment=1]14june08Slide4.PNG[/attachment] [2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: i suggest 25% of available cash
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: be set aside for reserves
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: available cash being that money still left after the fixed costs are covered
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: tier is paid
[2008/06/14 9:55] Sudane Erato: again… just my sense… it’s something we *can* do, and we should
[2008/06/14 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: currently we put almost 100% then?
[2008/06/14 9:55] Sudane Erato: that 25% equals 5% of the total revenue
[2008/06/14 9:55] Sudane Erato: yes, exactly FR
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: we don’t really spend anything
[2008/06/14 9:56] You: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: and thats why we have such a healthy reserve
[2008/06/14 9:56] You: Indeed
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: but… quite honestly… our process sucks
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: there is no examination of these issues..
[2008/06/14 9:56] You: Most of our events are self-supporting .. most of or work is volunteer
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: and there must be… if we are responsible with the communities money
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: yes… and thats fine
[2008/06/14 9:57] You: and we are darn lucky Su is utterly honesty and personally solvent 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: but this all should be active decision…
[2008/06/14 9:57] You: because we have NONE of what auditors call “governance” in our budget process
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: rather than passive… “oh… thats whats happened”
[2008/06/14 9:58] You: and not bloody much in the way of “internal controls” either 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: yeah… well, we had staff salaries..
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: but i found i couldn’t administer them the way we were doing them
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: and they fell by the wayside
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: hehe… including my own 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:59] Sudane Erato: anyway… the last step is obvious…

—-slide 5—-
[attachment=0]14june08Slide5.PNG[/attachment] [2008/06/14 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: Sudane, what was the problem with salaries?
[2008/06/14 9:59] Sudane Erato: decide what to do with the rest
[2008/06/14 9:59] You: Let me put it this way 🙂 if this were a corporate board of directors…. I’d resign to flee the personal risk of being party to so lax a system … as I said, Thank God Sudane is a benevolent volunteer
[2008/06/14 9:59] Sudane Erato: FR… the personnel changed so often…
[2008/06/14 10:00] Flyingroc Chung: but surely you’ve been treasurer since time immemorial
[2008/06/14 10:00] Sudane Erato: that I hardly knew if someone was actively on duty
[2008/06/14 10:01] Sudane Erato: yes, i have been … but there’s no “system” … nobody says, in writing … Sudane, pay this person …
[2008/06/14 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: ah
[2008/06/14 10:01] Sudane Erato: and then I mark off that they are paid, so the initiator knows
[2008/06/14 10:01] Sudane Erato: so, without that, I’ve been reluctant to guess
[2008/06/14 10:01] You: I look at the salary problem this way: Su’s not going to pay anyone without a request/authority (duh). Who’s going to give it to her? And do we expect her to spend time chasing those answers if they do not come?
[2008/06/14 10:02] Sudane Erato: yes… exactly
[2008/06/14 10:02] Jon Seattle: Shouldn’t such internal procedures be a task of the executive?
[2008/06/14 10:02] Sudane Erato: Jon, I think so
[2008/06/14 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: I think so too
[2008/06/14 10:02] You: um – who is incentivized to perform, how, exactly?
[2008/06/14 10:02] Sudane Erato: of which, yes, i am a member
[2008/06/14 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: Maybe if we also paid the chancellor 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:03] Sudane Erato: i have proposed a document… by which payment requests are made
[2008/06/14 10:03] Sudane Erato: hehe… perhaps
[2008/06/14 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: we could set up a paymaster position that is also a paid position
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: well… FR, that may be overkill at this moment..
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: we just need a “tracking”
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: someone verifies that a payment must be made
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: then I make it
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: and I verify that it has been paid … it can be quite simple
[2008/06/14 10:05] Jon Seattle: /sorry have to run, thanks much Sudane!
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: anyway … that concludes what I can offer …
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: yw 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:05] You: As for *pay*, 🙂 can we flag it as a known problem and move on? As for “tracking”, Su, can you post your GoogleDocs link here, for people to see?
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: sure…
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: it will take a sec…
[2008/06/14 10:06] You: and hm — do we need to take any action to make that the official request method? I do NOT think so, but you tell me. Seems like properly it’s a unilateral Executive act.
[2008/06/14 10:07] Sudane Erato: yes… it should be an executive process thing… we just haven’t gotten it high enough on the agenda
[2008/06/14 10:08] You: While Sudane looks for the URI, and perhaps messes around with its permissions a bit, let me mention this. I think the next step here, after this helpful presentation, is for anyone inclined to do so to propose legislation around budget planning.
[2008/06/14 10:09] Sudane Erato: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= … T-dTmDzBWA
[2008/06/14 10:09] Sudane Erato: i hope that works
[2008/06/14 10:09] You: And maybe we should put a notice in the forum or something? ALL YE WHO HOPE FOR PAYMENT, ENTER HERE OR ABANDON HOPE? 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:10] Flyingroc Chung: hm, so it will be up to the person who is supposed to be paid to ask for payment?
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: well. it was not at all my concept that *anyone* could place an entry there
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: no… not at all
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: IMO
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: it should be whoever has the responsibility to spend money
[2008/06/14 10:11] Sudane Erato: i think if it was open, we’d have a disaster
[2008/06/14 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: the chancellor, then
[2008/06/14 10:11] Jamie Palisades smiles and notes Sonja’s recent presence and waives
[2008/06/14 10:11] Sudane Erato: yes… and perhaps the LRA
[2008/06/14 10:11] Sonja Strom smiles
[2008/06/14 10:12] You: hm – Sudane, there would need to be some widely accessible way to log a *request* for payment, no?
[2008/06/14 10:12] Sudane Erato: could be any number of authorized people… so long as there was accountability
[2008/06/14 10:12] Danton Sideways: This brings to mind recent repeated requests for payment by a certain citizen
[2008/06/14 10:13] Sudane Erato: well… the first question is… who spends money?… who makes the decisions… and who is answerable for what they spend?
[2008/06/14 10:13] Sudane Erato: obviously the Chancellor
[2008/06/14 10:13] Sudane Erato: but perhaps the Chancellor could delegate that as well … like to an events person
[2008/06/14 10:14] Sudane Erato: the certain person has been hounding me for months … for payment
[2008/06/14 10:14] Sudane Erato: but I have no idea where that decision came from
[2008/06/14 10:14] Sudane Erato: any person could ask me for payment
[2008/06/14 10:15] Sudane Erato: and then *I* would be answerable to justify why I spent the money
[2008/06/14 10:15] Danton Sideways: we seem to be breaking new ground here 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:15] Sudane Erato: and I have no idea
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: indeed, Danton
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: but
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: if Treasurer always requires an authorization to pay
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: (which seems sound!)
[2008/06/14 10:16] You: Then if those who are empowered to authorize never do so
[2008/06/14 10:16] You: (which seems to be the case, and has long been, apparently)
[2008/06/14 10:16] Flyingroc Chung: then perhaps impeachment is in order
[2008/06/14 10:16] Danton Sideways: so the certain citizen at least has the merit posing the question
[2008/06/14 10:17] You: I do not see it FR: ha ha this crowd?
[2008/06/14 10:17] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: well some sort of big stick 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:17] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 10:17] You: As we are not in an official meeting, let me just point out that there’s VERY little will to require ANYTHING from ANYONE in my observation
[2008/06/14 10:17] Sudane Erato: yes 🙁
[2008/06/14 10:18] Sudane Erato: well… you require me to pay the LL tier… can we assume that?
[2008/06/14 10:18] You: FR, my own view comes from RL — infinite slack generates infinite slackers 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:18] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 10:18] Flyingroc Chung: sounds like my kind of town!
[2008/06/14 10:19] Sudane Erato: lol
[2008/06/14 10:19] You: Before I leave RA I will make a few suggestions about that
[2008/06/14 10:19] You: 🙂 but yes – and for EXACTLY that reason FR — factions may kill them 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:19] Patroklus Murakami: i must get going. ty for your presentation sudane, that was very thought-provoking
[2008/06/14 10:19] Sudane Erato: thx Pat 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:19] You: Indeed! Thanks very much Sudane
[2008/06/14 10:19] Patroklus Murakami: hope to see you all at a quorate RA meeting soon 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:20] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:20] You: Heh
[2008/06/14 10:20] You: Thanks for coming Pat
[2008/06/14 10:20] Sudane Erato: I should depart as well… but i am always available for questions
[2008/06/14 10:20] You: Thanks again so much
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sudane Erato: and … also in need of guidance in many areas here
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sudane Erato: so … we assume this is an ongoing discussion
[2008/06/14 10:21] You: Ha that IS my hope, anyway
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sonja Strom: I would think so.
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sonja Strom: bye bye Sudane!
[2008/06/14 10:21] You: And thanks to everyone who came
[2008/06/14 10:22] You: No need for adjournment, as we did not meet as the RA. Anything to discuss before we go?
[2008/06/14 10:22] Danton Sideways: Bye Sudane!
[2008/06/14 10:23] Flyingroc Chung: I dont have anything
[2008/06/14 10:23] Sonja Strom: Me either
[2008/06/14 10:23] Flyingroc Chung: except that if we dont know what to spend that money on
[2008/06/14 10:23] Flyingroc Chung: we probably shouldn’t be collecting it
[2008/06/14 10:24] Danton Sideways: Sudane’s whole argument was about why we should be saving it
[2008/06/14 10:24] You: 🙂 a good chat for the future FR
[2008/06/14 10:24] You: and of course … RA always can legislate if it wants
[2008/06/14 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: well, she’s saying we keep 25% of our “profit”
[2008/06/14 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: and spend 75%
[2008/06/14 10:24] Danton Sideways: but she admits maybe be only have to save some, yes
[2008/06/14 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: but we dont spend that
[2008/06/14 10:25] Danton Sideways: So CDS has to learn to spend money
[2008/06/14 10:25] You: I think, to be fair, she has been socking up dough primarily because no .. one .. is .. giving .. her … instructions .. to … do … otherwise. (Mild smile, shrug)
[2008/06/14 10:25] Danton Sideways: something it has never done before 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:26] Sonja Strom: Maybe we could have mountains!
[2008/06/14 10:26] Danton Sideways: except on tier and sims of course
[2008/06/14 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: we could start paying the guild
[2008/06/14 10:26] You: hm do Mountains cost money, Sonja?
[2008/06/14 10:26] Danton Sideways: that’s the can of worms
[2008/06/14 10:26] Danton Sideways: when you start paying anyone, where do you stop?
[2008/06/14 10:26] You: FR, is that needed? When we have sufficient volunteers at all times?
[2008/06/14 10:27] Flyingroc Chung: when we run out of that 75%
[2008/06/14 10:27] Sonja Strom: Jamie, the cost of tier has been one of the major reasons citizens have given for opposing our having mountains.
[2008/06/14 10:27] Flyingroc Chung: Well, when I came into neualtenburg, it was assumed that some day, we would be making enough money to pay for our hard working workers
[2008/06/14 10:27] Sonja Strom: I offered to help pay for them, but did not want to pay for all of it just on my own.
[2008/06/14 10:27] Danton Sideways: unproductive land
[2008/06/14 10:28] Flyingroc Chung: this was when the guild was still part of government
[2008/06/14 10:28] Sonja Strom: For about a year I offered to pay 1/4 of all costs for the mountains.
[2008/06/14 10:28] Sonja Strom: Now I’m kind of rethinking that offer.
[2008/06/14 10:28] Danton Sideways: that IS a possibility, more open land, or more sandboxes
[2008/06/14 10:29] Sonja Strom: I think they would make our community more interesting, too.
[2008/06/14 10:29] Danton Sideways: I think we should open a colony in one of the OpenSim grids
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: That
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: is a good idea, Danton!
[2008/06/14 10:30] You: hmmm
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: Maybe a Franchulate?
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: Or can that only be on the mainland?
[2008/06/14 10:30] Danton Sideways: maybe, tho I never understood that term 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:31] Sonja Strom: I can’t say I have completely either.
[2008/06/14 10:31] You: well personally I think we *should* do voids for mountains, and many other successul colonies allow this — and would welcome … legislation ….
[2008/06/14 10:31] Danton Sideways: sounds like Franchise, that I understand
[2008/06/14 10:31] Sonja Strom: My understanding is that they would be extensions of the CDS into non-contiguous areas.
[2008/06/14 10:31] You: as for franchulates — great idea — but — 🙂 no one has done the work to make it a plausible proposal.
[2008/06/14 10:32] Sonja Strom: I believe that’s true, Jamie.
* * *
[end] Slides from Treasurer’s Report

Permalink.

RA Meeting: June 28, 2008

Agenda

1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 0900 – 09h20)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans, and note RA general election timing.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
– None known.

SPECIAL ITEM
2. Chancellor’s Report Q&A (45 mins: 09h20 – 10h05)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS
3. Sim4 economics/purchase conditions (20 mins: 10h05 – 10h25)
— Any RA action on land pricing of Sim 4 (Locus Amoenus)
— Any RA action on puirchase authorization for SIm 4
4. Election reform bills if any (10 mins: 10h25 – 10h35)
5. Commerce Commission recommendations if any (10 mins.: 10h35 – 10h45)

NEW ITEMS

6. Other?
7. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 12h00

Transcript

====
Transcript of 28 June 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
(scheduled for Colonia Nova Praetorium, apologies for any confusion)
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/06/28 9:03] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/21/167/41
[2008/06/28 9:05] You: Good morning – and evening MT
[2008/06/28 9:05] Beathan Vale: oop
[2008/06/28 9:05] Beathan Vale: I was guessing
[2008/06/28 9:05] ThePrincess Parisi: there you are
[2008/06/28 9:05] Moon Adamant: Hi Jamie 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:05] Moon Adamant: hello MT
[2008/06/28 9:06] You: What a pleasant surprise. Good morning all.
[2008/06/28 9:06] ThePrincess Parisi: accesorizing sorry
[2008/06/28 9:06] You: I am afraid I was over in CN where the meeting notice said we would meet, but no matter.
[2008/06/28 9:06] Moon Adamant: hi Sonja 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:06] Sonja Strom: good morning
[2008/06/28 9:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i saw that
[2008/06/28 9:06] Jamie Palisades looks at the clock
[2008/06/28 9:06] ThePrincess Parisi: hi everyone
[2008/06/28 9:06] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie may i ask you a personal question
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: Prin, you are a fashion icon – the ancients said beauty never needs to apologize 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: did you go to catholic school hon?
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: why? do I look like a nun today?
[2008/06/28 9:07] MT Lundquist: hi all
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: you just are so darn particular.. please chill
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: nice to see you Beathan.
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: 🙂 in my current role, Prin, I’m expected to try and facilitate progress. That does put a few constraints on me.
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: actually I have found out that this is actually a computer video game after all
[2008/06/28 9:08] You: Really? Heh. What tipped you off?
[2008/06/28 9:08] MT Lundquist: what
[2008/06/28 9:08] MT Lundquist: it is!!!!!
[2008/06/28 9:08] MT Lundquist: wow
[2008/06/28 9:08] Jon Seattle: back. Hi everyone 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: I see sir
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh dont tell jon i said that
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: he gets very upset
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: please dont read back jon
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: are you running for RA jon
[2008/06/28 9:09] Jon Seattle: I am not reading back 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you .. thats in your best interest
[2008/06/28 9:09] Moon Adamant: you’ll know in a while Prin
[2008/06/28 9:09] Jon Seattle: not running for RA (of course)
[2008/06/28 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: good thanks
[2008/06/28 9:10] You: Of course, the risk in thinking of it is a game is that one might be tempted to treat the real people in it like, well, little Mario Bros mushrooms or monsters, which one can shoot at will, or jump on 🙂 – or make nasty remarks to –
—-
[2008/06/28 9:10] You: Shall we start? We are quorate.
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/06/28 9:10] Beathan Vale: you mean I’m not a mushroom? hmmmm
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: waiting on the right earrings
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: but im fine
[2008/06/28 9:10] You: The agenda’s here as proposed: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1929
[2008/06/28 9:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/06/28 9:11] Beathan Vale: assent
—-
[2008/06/28 9:11] You: 🙂 1a. Would all please assent to recording for the transacript. I assent.
[2008/06/28 9:11] Sonja Strom: I assent
—-
[2008/06/28 9:11] You: 1b. Any changes to the agenda? I do not see Alexi on line but we can deal with that when we get to item 2
[2008/06/28 9:12] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/06/28 9:12] MT Lundquist: assent
[2008/06/28 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i already assented
[2008/06/28 9:12] Jon Seattle: yes, since Moon is here it may be good to put the sim finance first – she has to run before long
[2008/06/28 9:12] Jamie Palisades nods and smiles
[2008/06/28 9:12] Moon Adamant: i am really not sure at all how much time i can stay
[2008/06/28 9:12] You: Well, Jon, as she is here and Alexicon is not, that makes sense to me
[2008/06/28 9:13] Jon Seattle: 🙂 nods
[2008/06/28 9:13] You: any objections to that? reversing items 2 & 3?
[2008/06/28 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont mind reverals
[2008/06/28 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: reversals
[2008/06/28 9:13] You: 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 9:13] You: 1c
[2008/06/28 9:14] You: Other than Moon on Sim 4. any nonRA memebrs planning to speak on a topic today?
[2008/06/28 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i have still not been paid for the guided tour
[2008/06/28 9:14] You: Not hearing any …
[2008/06/28 9:15] Sonja Strom: really?
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: really
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: Hm – Prin let’s handle that under 1.f. in a sec
[2008/06/28 9:15] Sonja Strom: wow, that’s been a long time!
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: a long long long long time
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: so no 1.c. speakers, OK
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: I was not reimbursed for last years cheristmas party either
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: I also have a friendly issue with sudane
—-
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: 1d – routine notice, please send me any corrections to the posted transcripts 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: shes been harrassing citixzens
—-
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: 1e
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: in a political agenda way
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: where do we discuss that
[2008/06/28 9:16] Moon Adamant: that+s a serious accusation
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i have chat
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: notecards
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: and witnesses
[2008/06/28 9:16] You: Any desire to talk about our plans? Prin, can the reimbursement thing and the Sudane thing wait about 90 seconds?
[2008/06/28 9:16] Beathan Vale: harrassing? or reminding that rent is due?
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: yep no worries or hurries
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: harrassing beathan
[2008/06/28 9:16] You: kk 🙂 patience, all, please
[2008/06/28 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she actually told me even that she didnt want a new sim
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: let’s deal with that – in a minute 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and I understand it all now
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: Prin? Can I run the meeting please?
[2008/06/28 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: you asked a question, sorry I answered
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: That would require waiting for a proper time for each item of business
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: we’re briefly on 1e
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: which is schedule
[2008/06/28 9:18] You: and I expect to call a meeting on each of the remaining Saturdays in June & July
[2008/06/28 9:18] You: oops – this is last in June 🙂 make that July
[2008/06/28 9:18] You: next week is July 5 – so – do we want to try to meet then, or not?
[2008/06/28 9:19] You: Big holiday weekend for some
[2008/06/28 9:19] Beathan Vale: I’m unavailable on the 5th
[2008/06/28 9:19] Sonja Strom: I might be unavailable then, not sure yet.
[2008/06/28 9:19] Beathan Vale: but — I’ve been so buried lately my schedule is entirely unpredictable
[2008/06/28 9:19] You: unless someone tells me otherwise, I’d be inclined to call meetings for the 12, 19 and 26 of July then
[2008/06/28 9:20] Sonja Strom: Same for me Beathan
[2008/06/28 9:20] You: of course, if someone knows in advance they cannot come, they can ask their faction to replace them also 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i never know either, .. but i am raising my hand
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie.. may i say something?
[2008/06/28 9:20] You: Please do, yes
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: please just call the meetings.. and hope we show and dont worry, cos you have had the most quorum meetings ever
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you are trying too hard.. chill
[2008/06/28 9:21] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/06/28 9:21] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/06/28 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: you are doing a great job
[2008/06/28 9:21] You: 🙂 I appreciate that Prin – but what about the 5th? I ask because we have people waiting for action from us, so want us to be a litle polite and predictable if we can
[2008/06/28 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: we all do the best we can jamie..
[2008/06/28 9:21] Sonja Strom: I think skipping the 5th would be better.
[2008/06/28 9:22] You: and yes 🙂 I did go to catholic school by the way 😀
[2008/06/28 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i can do the fifth
[2008/06/28 9:22] You: and Prin? Also, I ask because I think the LRA should consult with the RA about stuff like this 🙂 let’s set a good precedent for the future, this term
[2008/06/28 9:22] Sonja Strom: I can ask for a 7-day vote.
[2008/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/28 9:23] You: so ? I suggest I uping the absent RA members, and if at least four think they can attend, I will call a meeting for the 5th
[2008/06/28 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i think you misspelled a word sir
[2008/06/28 9:23] You: and in any case we will do 12 19 26 July, and 26th will be our last before the newely elected RA is seated, I think
[2008/06/28 9:23] MT Lundquist: its eith pung
[2008/06/28 9:24] MT Lundquist: or ping
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: 🙂 I am sure I did Prin, I am a horrid typist “ping”
[2008/06/28 9:24] Moon Adamant sighs
[2008/06/28 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: poll
[2008/06/28 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ping as in IM
[2008/06/28 9:24] Sonja Strom notices she tells him to lighten up and then corrects him in a misspelling
[2008/06/28 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i was saying that tongue in cheek
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: mmm – I am not sure what “punging” them would mean, MT – hope that isn’t AU slang for something …
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: I think we are done with 1.e. 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: 1f
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: consent items
[2008/06/28 9:25] You: I had none .. but 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:25] You: Apparently Prin is not still reimbursed!
[2008/06/28 9:25] You: after what, 3 months?
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: no not for any of the three things
[2008/06/28 9:25] MT Lundquist: from latex to a nun
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: no jamie this was approved last term, so more like four
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know at least three
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont keep track
[2008/06/28 9:26] You: We had a great budget presentation from Sudane a few weeks ago at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1921 . I encourage all to read it. …. one of the relevant things I learned …
[2008/06/28 9:26] You: .. is that she pays almost nothing unless explicitly authorized by Chancellor, except tier and related land payments
[2008/06/28 9:26] You: .. so for example, stipends to some have stopped
[2008/06/28 9:27] You: .. as she has not got a list of who should be getting them
[2008/06/28 9:27] You: .. so I assume her hangup with paying you is that the Chancellor has not authorized it
[2008/06/28 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: yes well that is clear that its the chancellor i knew that from the beginning
[2008/06/28 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: why isnt it fixed
[2008/06/28 9:28] You: 🙂 so I would like to move that the RA formally ask the chancellor to authorise Sudane to pay Prin for all of her reimbursement requests within 7 days.
[2008/06/28 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that is seconded
[2008/06/28 9:28] You: Any discussion?
[2008/06/28 9:28] Sonja Strom: This might be off-topic,
[2008/06/28 9:28] You: I’d like us to return to tougher options next week if nothing happens, if this passes:)
[2008/06/28 9:29] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess’s hand.
[2008/06/28 9:29] You: Sonja?
[2008/06/28 9:29] Sonja Strom: but how does the Chancellor know if the reimbursement requests are legitimate?
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: never stopped me
[2008/06/28 9:29] MT Lundquist looks nervous
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thats his job i think
[2008/06/28 9:29] You: 🙂 well Sonja entirely on topic – if he replies that he has considered and rejected it, I guess we will know
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and if we think he is wrong we empeach it
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: him
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: or her
[2008/06/28 9:30] You: and frankly a lack of action is worse that a rejection
[2008/06/28 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: it is to me
[2008/06/28 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im pissed
[2008/06/28 9:30] Arun Botha: heya !
[2008/06/28 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: hi arun
[2008/06/28 9:30] MT Lundquist: hi arun
[2008/06/28 9:30] Moon Adamant: hello arun
[2008/06/28 9:30] You: Prin’s right the only “ruler” the laws of CDS gives us, to swat a Chancellor, is to remove that person
[2008/06/28 9:30] Sonja Strom: ok, so maybe we can ask him to “Respond with a Reimbursement or Rejection of a reimbursement request within 7 days of it being made.”
[2008/06/28 9:30] Arun Botha: i always feel ive been summoned to a dressing down at one of these
[2008/06/28 9:30] Arun Botha: lol
[2008/06/28 9:31] You: I accept that as a friendly amendment if no one objects
[2008/06/28 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i accept
[2008/06/28 9:31] MT Lundquist: accepted
[2008/06/28 9:31] You: Oh I dunno Arun, I’m wearing sort of a foppy deal today, maybe its a “dressing up”
[2008/06/28 9:31] MT Lundquist: are we dressing up
[2008/06/28 9:31] Arun Botha: lol
[2008/06/28 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im keeping jamie humble
[2008/06/28 9:31] MT Lundquist: or down
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: (and please assent to being transcripted if you speak, this is a recorded meeting)
[2008/06/28 9:32] Sonja Strom: are we in a vote?
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: Man, Prin, that’s a tough job
[2008/06/28 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: no shit
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: 🙂 we are now. Are you ready to vote on the amended motion?
[2008/06/28 9:32] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: Members please state your vote. I vote yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/06/28 9:32] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 9:32] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/28 9:33] You: Motion passes 4-0-0. I will notify Alexi and Sudane and post to the Forum board. Thanks
[2008/06/28 9:33] MT Lundquist: great
[2008/06/28 9:33] You: end of consent items
[2008/06/28 9:33] Sonja Strom: I do have one other question about this.
[2008/06/28 9:33] You: OK? Sonja?
[2008/06/28 9:33] Sonja Strom: How would it effect existing reimbursement requests.
[2008/06/28 9:34] You: ?
[2008/06/28 9:34] Sonja Strom: Like, if they were made 4 months ago.
[2008/06/28 9:34] Sonja Strom: Would they all be included, retroactively?
[2008/06/28 9:34] You: Sorry, do not understand. Are you saying that there other outstanding requests?
[2008/06/28 9:34] MT Lundquist: i would think that they now all have to be dealt with in 7 days
[2008/06/28 9:35] Sonja Strom: So we will view it as that all existing requests will have to be responded to within 7 days of when we tell him?
[2008/06/28 9:35] MT Lundquist: thats what i think
[2008/06/28 9:35] Sonja Strom: me too
[2008/06/28 9:35] You: hmmm – Sonja, we have not yet created such a rule generally
[2008/06/28 9:36] Sonja Strom: So, for it to be in effect for TP’s requests, should she re-file them with the Chancellor?
[2008/06/28 9:36] You: the reason I asked Sudane to explain some of these rules – which is all transcripted – is so that we could better understand
[2008/06/28 9:36] You: but for now
[2008/06/28 9:37] You: I think we have, by an RA motion, asked the Chancellor to respond on Prin’s long-overdue requests
[2008/06/28 9:37] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/06/28 9:38] Sonja Strom: I just wanted to be sure.
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: If there are others, I hope someone will tell us … and Alexicon
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: next item 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: We agreed to switch items 3 and 2
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: so we are on 3
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: Sim 4 Locus Amoenus
[2008/06/28 9:38] Moon Adamant nods
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: Let me remind you that we DID approve map and stats
[2008/06/28 9:39] You: but NOT land prices or the Linden purchase
[2008/06/28 9:39] Moon Adamant: AND covenants
[2008/06/28 9:39] You: oo right we did covenants too 🙂 thanks Moon
[2008/06/28 9:39] You: here is where all that can be found in our transcripts: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1908
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: so
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: RA has 3 options 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: 1. approve the pricing offered at the 7 June meeting, and the sim purchase
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: 2. approve something else
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: or 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:41] You: 3. Decline to act and thereby PERMIT the chancellor to proceed without us
[2008/06/28 9:41] You: I gave this some thought, and …
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: it looks like, under our laws, the Chancellor may not be able to approve covenants for land without the RA…
[2008/06/28 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: but he CAN authorize the sim purchase
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:42] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexicon
[2008/06/28 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: hi everyone
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: and may even have the power to set land prices if we do not 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:42] Moon Adamant: hi Alex 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:42] MT Lundquist: hi alex
[2008/06/28 9:43] Jon Seattle: Hi Alex 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: hello chancellor sir
[2008/06/28 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: I just mentioned you mentioning me
[2008/06/28 9:43] You: Hello Alexi. We moved on to land price issues in your absence
[2008/06/28 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: sure
[2008/06/28 9:44] You: 🙂 if you are OK for a little while to stay, let’s stay on the Sim 4 price issues
[2008/06/28 9:44] MT Lundquist: hi bj
[2008/06/28 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: im OK
[2008/06/28 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: hi bj
[2008/06/28 9:44] Moon Adamant: hi Bjerkel 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: yes I will stay
[2008/06/28 9:44] Bjerkel Eerie: hi all
[2008/06/28 9:44] Sonja Strom: Hi Bjerkel
[2008/06/28 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: hi Bjerkel
[2008/06/28 9:44] You: (hello all – newcomers please assent to being recorded if you speak)
[2008/06/28 9:44] Jon Seattle: Hi Bjerkel 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:45] You: SO
[2008/06/28 9:45] Bjerkel Eerie: hellow jon
[2008/06/28 9:45] Alexicon Kurka: was that just in chat Jamie?
[2008/06/28 9:45] You: any RA members wish to make a motion, or shall we have a brief Sim 4 status report from Moon, as she’s been able to join us briefly
[2008/06/28 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: lets hear from moon
[2008/06/28 9:46] You: ( yes, Alexi, just say “I assent’ 🙂 )
[2008/06/28 9:46] You: Moon? Update for us?
[2008/06/28 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: I assent
[2008/06/28 9:46] Moon Adamant: Well, update is that we are still waiting for this RA – or Chancellor, as you pointed out –
[2008/06/28 9:47] Moon Adamant: do discuss and define the pricing of land and the date of the buying of the sim
[2008/06/28 9:47] Moon Adamant: everything else has been approved by this RA
[2008/06/28 9:48] Moon Adamant: we are also preparing a budget for construction that we will present the Chancellor
[2008/06/28 9:50] You: Finished, Moon?
[2008/06/28 9:51] Moon Adamant: yes, done
[2008/06/28 9:51] Beathan Vale: Is the guild able to take land donations to create a sandbox to pre-build major buildings?
[2008/06/28 9:51] Moon Adamant: at the moment, we are not envisaging that
[2008/06/28 9:51] Moon Adamant: since we would have difficulty to pay the tier
[2008/06/28 9:51] You: hmmmm well BV they do a lot of aerial work
[2008/06/28 9:52] Beathan Vale: yes — but I recall that the monastery was prebuilt (built before sim purchase) and it worked out well —
[2008/06/28 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: whats with the 5k usd in the bank?
[2008/06/28 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean where is the profit from CDS?
[2008/06/28 9:52] Moon Adamant: and generally, if a public building is needed, we build it on its parcel directly
[2008/06/28 9:52] You: Ah
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: let’s finish BV’s inqury then pursue Prin’s point
[2008/06/28 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need an audit and a second set of eyes before we spend another dime
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: I guess Moon is saying, “not needed”, Beathan
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: so I will deem your Q finished, hm?
[2008/06/28 9:53] Beathan Vale: I think that there are multiple choke points to expansion — and if we remove any of them, we would have a better feeling of progress
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: Like what, Beathan?
[2008/06/28 9:54] Moon Adamant: well, Jamie, maybe in the future we can envisage that, as our financial dep manages our finances
[2008/06/28 9:54] Moon Adamant: atm, we prefer to gather some overhead
[2008/06/28 9:54] Beathan Vale: well — the process is complicated – with multiple steps — and it is interminable if those steps are taken linearly, but if we can have parallel (build on sandboxes while working out purchase and covenant details, for instance) I think that the process would be faster and better
[2008/06/28 9:55] Moon Adamant: well, Beathan
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: but the Guild’s cash flow is the factor
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: so …
[2008/06/28 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: but we are allowing skyboxes now to all new sims, don’t we, that’s a way to remove the building in place obstacles
[2008/06/28 9:55] Moon Adamant: Guild isn’t infinteley elastic
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: Alex — no — I mean building before the sim is purchased
[2008/06/28 9:55] Moon Adamant: i mean, we only can have some dozen projects at each time
[2008/06/28 9:55] You: well, let’s keep this moving along, hmn? Beathan, do you have an action or proposal about that to make at this time?
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: true
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: no — just an inquiry
[2008/06/28 9:56] Beathan Vale: I am planning to cancel an alt with substantial ML holdings
[2008/06/28 9:56] You: “ML”?
[2008/06/28 9:56] Beathan Vale: mainland
[2008/06/28 9:56] You: ah OK let’s tlk about that but postmeeting
[2008/06/28 9:57] You: so Prin – your turn – audit?
[2008/06/28 9:57] Beathan Vale: prob can’t stay that long … but OK
[2008/06/28 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we get an audit and account for the money before we go any further.. i am very concerned
[2008/06/28 9:57] Moon Adamant: what on?
[2008/06/28 9:57] You: Just for clarity, does that mean, RA action would prohibit sim purchase
[2008/06/28 9:57] Alexicon Kurka: audit whom, I think the main bottleneck is that we have no RL existance as organisation
[2008/06/28 9:57] You: ?
[2008/06/28 9:57] Moon Adamant: and what does it concern sim gfinances?
[2008/06/28 9:58] You: let’s let her get her motion statd 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: that the money in cds is not being tracked properly .. it does mean we need to get the financial house in order before we ezpand more
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i have been told by sudane there is concern about the process for collecting tier now
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: if we have a new sim, more residents
[2008/06/28 9:58] Moon Adamant: i think i heard that a substatntial report on budget had been made some RAs ago….
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: also i wanna know where the 5k is and get some accountability fior more than one purson
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: person
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: its in adequate
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: inadequate in my opinion
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a full audit, where is the 5k
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: who has right to it
[2008/06/28 9:59] Moon Adamant: REALLY?
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: who know, and how is it invested
[2008/06/28 9:59] You: OK, so Prin I take that as a yes – a motion to require some third party audit or (similar outside review) to CDS finances as a condition to sim purchase? Just wanting to make sure we have it clear
[2008/06/28 10:00] You: can you confirm or correct that for me, Prin?
[2008/06/28 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we have a full financial audit before we go any further, yes jamie
[2008/06/28 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: yes you are correct
[2008/06/28 10:00] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 10:00] You: (Hi Symo, welcome, please say “I assent” if you speak, as we are recording)
[2008/06/28 10:01] Moon Adamant: hi Symo 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:01] Symo Kurka: ok i assent
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: as salzie wanted …. months ago, we dont have the structure in cds to grow now, we need to get that set up .. like jon said………….we need to be a organization, not owned by one person
[2008/06/28 10:01] You: OK. Moved and seconded. Discussion? RA members first please?
[2008/06/28 10:01] Jon Seattle: Hi Symo 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: hi symo
[2008/06/28 10:01] Beathan Vale: I don’t like the idea of holding up projects pending an audit, but I think that we should direct the chancellor to audit or arrange for an audit, to address concerns, highlight areas where Sudane could use assistance, and put this to rest
[2008/06/28 10:01] MT Lundquist: hi symo
[2008/06/28 10:01] Sonja Strom: As I understand it, the CDS is not owned by one person.
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the chancellor audit…hahaha
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja you are wrong
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: we have all been told that but we have been lied to
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: It is “owned” by one avatar because Linden Lab requires one owner.
[2008/06/28 10:02] Moon Adamant raises one hand
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: But that avatar is accessed by different people, and is not Sudane.
[2008/06/28 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: I really think the main point is to first establish an RL entity for the CDS
[2008/06/28 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: rudeen?
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: Of course I am talking about Rudeen, to be clear.
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to be an entity not owned by a person.. well sudane / rudeen who ever.. they dont give me the info necessary to know that we are viable beyond a person’s whim and we are irresponsible to continue to grow this way on myth
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we need more transparency
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: who are those ppl sonja? do you know
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont
[2008/06/28 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i have reasons to doubt …. many many
[2008/06/28 10:04] Beathan Vale: we get good monthly financials — I would be happy to see them third-party checked biyearly or something — but I don’t think there is a problem with communication
[2008/06/28 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: thats a move in the right direction
[2008/06/28 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: what about being a legal entity on top of it
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: we got a bunch of self proclaimed lawyers
[2008/06/28 10:05] Moon Adamant raises her hand again
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: and being a non profit is a issue
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: ???
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: gimme a break?
[2008/06/28 10:05] Beathan Vale: I think we could easily draft and file the paperwork to be a nonprofit
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah so why dont we do it
[2008/06/28 10:05] Moon Adamant: i think we were discussing sim finances….
[2008/06/28 10:05] You: I am hearing some agreement in the room about more outside review. Can we get comments from others please?
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its all the same issue
[2008/06/28 10:05] Moon Adamant: please?
[2008/06/28 10:06] You: Moon? Alexi? anyone else?
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: may I?
[2008/06/28 10:06] Beathan Vale: well — there have been concerns about choice of location, choice of law, whether it would make us “American”
[2008/06/28 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: yes moon
[2008/06/28 10:06] MT Lundquist: i would support a non profit
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: the
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: IM HERE TO DISCUSSIS SIM FINANCES
[2008/06/28 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: yes … and i made a motion moon
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: sorry, laptop keyboard
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: i am sorry, i am speaking
[2008/06/28 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: that we need to get the finances fixed before we move on
[2008/06/28 10:06] Jon Seattle: Sorry, folks I must run. Thanks!
[2008/06/28 10:06] You: MT, BV, Prin. Creating an entity is not in the motion before us. Can we discuss audit first? and whether it should be a condition to sim purchse?
[2008/06/28 10:07] Moon Adamant: what i would like to point out is
[2008/06/28 10:07] Beathan Vale: again — I would rather address the audit as a separate issue – -not as a rider on sim financing
[2008/06/28 10:07] Moon Adamant: from our legislation, we have several times the money needed to expand
[2008/06/28 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: supposedly
[2008/06/28 10:07] Moon Adamant: the RA is of course sovereign to ASK FOR THE AUDITS IT WANTS
[2008/06/28 10:08] Beathan Vale: (we have too many lawyers — we need an accountant — but do accountants bother with SL?)
[2008/06/28 10:08] Moon Adamant: but it should not delay the buying of a sim when there’s money enough by our own laws to do it
[2008/06/28 10:08] Beathan Vale: I agree with Moon
[2008/06/28 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: mt and i both have degrees in accounting
[2008/06/28 10:08] Moon Adamant: really sorry for my typos, everyone
[2008/06/28 10:09] MT Lundquist: thats given it away
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: …
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: May I ask all to speak only to the motion for now
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: Prin and MT have spoken for it, Beathan against
[2008/06/28 10:09] Beathan Vale: OK — then we should set up a special RA committee — of MT and TP — to audit the accounts, they should be given full access to do so and full cooperation from the Executive, and report back findings at last session
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: Personally
[2008/06/28 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont wanna audit anything
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: not personally
[2008/06/28 10:10] Moon Adamant: dunno why…. if after all you’re a specialist…
[2008/06/28 10:10] Sonja Strom: Are we worried that not enough money is in the accounts?
[2008/06/28 10:10] You: hmmm
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: we are concerned that there is no one “watching”
[2008/06/28 10:10] Moon Adamant: thus i say
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: we are trusting one person, though a saint, with too much
[2008/06/28 10:10] Moon Adamant: watch what you want
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: we are a farce
[2008/06/28 10:11] Bjerkel Eerie: “WE” who is “WE” princess?
[2008/06/28 10:11] Moon Adamant: but don’t delay the spending of money when our laws permit the spending
[2008/06/28 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: we is .. CDS
[2008/06/28 10:11] You: I plan to vote against this motion, and if it fails, to make a new one AFTER FINISHING THE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS about an audit
[2008/06/28 10:11] Symo Kurka: we get regular financial reports… how many of you read them???
[2008/06/28 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: symo these are never verified by outside parties
[2008/06/28 10:11] Sonja Strom: I used to, but they always seemed very accurate and honest to me.
[2008/06/28 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: who has seen the bank statement
[2008/06/28 10:12] You: and yes, Prin, if the RA fails to act in a careful civil manner to give oversight it is not doing its job 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: vote
[2008/06/28 10:12] You: Is there any more discussion needed on Prin’s motion? or are you ready to vote? (I am)
[2008/06/28 10:12] MT Lundquist: me too
[2008/06/28 10:12] Jamie Palisades looks around ..?
[2008/06/28 10:12] Beathan Vale: rdy
[2008/06/28 10:13] Sonja Strom: k
[2008/06/28 10:13] You: Motion is, as set out above, audit before sim purchase and other new expenses
[2008/06/28 10:13] You: Members please state your vote. I vote no
[2008/06/28 10:13] Beathan Vale: no
[2008/06/28 10:13] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 10:13] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/06/28 10:14] You: Before jumping to conclusions – did Gwyn request a 7 day for this?
[2008/06/28 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: she didnt ask me
[2008/06/28 10:14] Beathan Vale: I have to run — problematic dogs …
[2008/06/28 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: bye bv
[2008/06/28 10:14] Beathan Vale: sorry
[2008/06/28 10:14] MT Lundquist: bye
[2008/06/28 10:14] Sonja Strom: ok, bye Beathan
[2008/06/28 10:14] Alexicon Kurka: bye beathan
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: Let’s say, Motion fails 2-3-0 but *possible* subject to 7 day if Gwyneth requested it – have to check her posts.
[2008/06/28 10:15] Moon Adamant: bye Beathan 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: Ta BV
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: Are there are other motions about the sim purchase? or pricing
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: if not we can move on to item 2, Chancellor Q&A
[2008/06/28 10:15] Jamie Palisades looks around …?
[2008/06/28 10:16] Moon Adamant: Jamie, sorry
[2008/06/28 10:16] You: ?
[2008/06/28 10:16] Moon Adamant: what is then decided about the issue?
[2008/06/28 10:16] You: yes Moon?
[2008/06/28 10:17] Moon Adamant: since I’ll have to report too before the Guild tomorrow
[2008/06/28 10:17] You: RA has not acted. I have expressed my view that the Chancellor is free to act without us.
[2008/06/28 10:17] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/06/28 10:17] You: Any more comments we want to pass along to Guild?
[2008/06/28 10:17] Symo Kurka: i kindly remind the RA that we’ve been under strong pressure on planning timing
[2008/06/28 10:17] Moon Adamant: then I will get in contact later with chancellor
[2008/06/28 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:17] Symo Kurka: and fully respected that
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: pressure to finish so no new citizens can be in before the election?
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:18] Symo Kurka: lol???
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: by csdf and sudane herself
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi has a conspiracy theory
[2008/06/28 10:18] Symo Kurka: ui move
[2008/06/28 10:18] Moon Adamant: that you have a conspiracy theory it’s clear
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: we were stalled until it was too late now yu push us
[2008/06/28 10:19] Symo Kurka: we do not push anybody
[2008/06/28 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: k
[2008/06/28 10:19] Moon Adamant: the transcripts of RA and Guild do tell quite another story Princess
[2008/06/28 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:19] Moon Adamant: but of course, believe in what you want
[2008/06/28 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: the transcripts of three meetings to make a logo while the sims sat
[2008/06/28 10:19] Symo Kurka: and SAY what you want, we are used to it
[2008/06/28 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: or another one?
[2008/06/28 10:20] You: um for what it is worth, I do not believe any Sim 4 citizen could in any way vote in the next election — and that this has been true for at least 3 weeks — the RA’s last reasonable chance to move Sim4 along in “time for” the elections was its 7 June meeting, at which some of us rejected the approval proposals 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yes of course you are correct jamie
—-
[2008/06/28 10:20] You: agenda item 2 then
[2008/06/28 10:20] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:21] You: Chancellor Question Time – and thanks for coming, Alexi
[2008/06/28 10:21] Moon Adamant: ok, thnk you all
[2008/06/28 10:21] Moon Adamant bows before the RA
[2008/06/28 10:21] You: Alexi, any comments you wish to make first?
[2008/06/28 10:21] You: (Thank you for coming Moon)
[2008/06/28 10:21] Alexicon Kurka: Well I can give you a short update on the webportal if you want
[2008/06/28 10:22] You: love to hear it
[2008/06/28 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: we have a main structure setup made by Arria and a first draft design made by Mizou
[2008/06/28 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: we started with the technical implementation as well
[2008/06/28 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: I do the tech work myself
[2008/06/28 10:23] Alexicon Kurka: there is still no definite hosting account as (the bottlneck) there is no RL person to sign an RL contract on behalf of the CDS
[2008/06/28 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: that is another reason we need to be an entity
[2008/06/28 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: to remove this obstacle and be able to deliver in my term I have provided a temporarily available account so that the results are visible soon
[2008/06/28 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: as soon as the hosting is arranged we can move everything there
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: I provide you here with the url
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: http://81.26.215.133/index.php?id=31
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: so you can check our status
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: content will be entered by Arria in July
[2008/06/28 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: design and templating will be finalised the coming two weeks
[2008/06/28 10:26] You: sounds good. Alex, I have two Qs about that.
[2008/06/28 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: yes plz
[2008/06/28 10:26] You: One is, will this be a replacement for all of the slcds.info ? or part of it?
[2008/06/28 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: its pretty
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: it is our understanding that as soon as the content is been transfered to the new environment the old sites will become obsolute
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: but that will be done in fases
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: so the forum and the wiki will be last
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: while general info first
[2008/06/28 10:27] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/28 10:28] You: hmm – there is a LOT of content on the forum bulletin boards
[2008/06/28 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: the portal provides sub-sites to each sim as well as a central information structure
[2008/06/28 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: We are looking for automatic parsing to fetch the forums
[2008/06/28 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: no retyping off course
[2008/06/28 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: but there is not a real reason to cease with the forum as it works well
[2008/06/28 10:29] You: do we have agreement from SC (who moderates) and Beta Technologies (who owns that domain), or is that needed?
[2008/06/28 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: it is the general information that is messy
[2008/06/28 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: no agreements with SC, I am in close contact with Gwyn (Beta)
—-
[2008/06/28 10:31] You: OK. Thanks. Second Q. You said “no person can be the
contract signer or domain owner” for CDS. Hmmm.
[2008/06/28 10:31] You: Does this mean you agree with Prin that we need to make a corporation or something like it?
[2008/06/28 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: yes it is a really bottleneck on more fronts
[2008/06/28 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: I think we are more a non profit
[2008/06/28 10:32] Alexicon Kurka: but I agree we need an RL entity
[2008/06/28 10:32] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/06/28 10:32] You: hm – ok that is helpful to know
[2008/06/28 10:32] You: any more chat on that point maybe? For now?
[2008/06/28 10:33] Bjerkel Eerie: is anyone going to be wiling to meet in the legally required manner to do the legal business of a NFP or a Corporation???
[2008/06/28 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope.. boards and such
[2008/06/28 10:33] Alexicon Kurka: do you mean meeting physically rl?
[2008/06/28 10:34] Bjerkel Eerie: who is going to pay the travel expenses of meeting
[2008/06/28 10:34] You: How do we move forward on exploring this?
[2008/06/28 10:34] Sonja Strom: TP, are you hosting us in RL?
[2008/06/28 10:34] Alexicon Kurka: I do a lot of legal business all around the world without seeing the persons at all
[2008/06/28 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: its not required, many sl things are
[2008/06/28 10:34] Alexicon Kurka: and I am a tiny organisation
[2008/06/28 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: exactly alexicon
[2008/06/28 10:34] You: Bj, there are some structures that require phys meetings, and some do not 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a commission or somthing
[2008/06/28 10:34] Bjerkel Eerie: how many boards do you serve on
[2008/06/28 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: bj are you saying its not possible?
[2008/06/28 10:36] You: Prin, I think you are right. If Alex has no objection, maybe we can do a quick motion to create a commission of say 2 months duration? I’d be happy to chair that
[2008/06/28 10:36] Alexicon Kurka: no objections
[2008/06/28 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/06/28 10:36] You: 🙂 what do the RA members think?
[2008/06/28 10:36] Bjerkel Eerie: nope just that the cost of creating a rl corporation for profit or NFP will in the end be move time consuming and costly than buying a new sim
[2008/06/28 10:37] Bjerkel Eerie: more time…
[2008/06/28 10:37] You: Fair point BJ – so we will need to confirm that
[2008/06/28 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to look at long term
[2008/06/28 10:37] You: *may* be worth the bother, or not.
[2008/06/28 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and what is good for the future not just immediate needs
[2008/06/28 10:37] You: So we’ll see.
[2008/06/28 10:38] Alexicon Kurka: I agree BJ, I intend to approve moving on with the next sim, by the way just as we are now 🙂 But we have to look at the future indeed
[2008/06/28 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope you will be on the committee
[2008/06/28 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: we need you
[2008/06/28 10:38] You: Motion and second to create a commission to report to RA by, let’s say, Sept 1, with me as chair, and usual open membership rules, on “CDS need for corporate structuire if any”
[2008/06/28 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 10:38] You: I’d like to see Bjerkel there too 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:38] You: Ready for a vote? I suspect so and vote yes
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 10:39] You: MT? Sonja? Vote on ‘possible corporation’ commission?
[2008/06/28 10:39] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: mt votes aye
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: hes afk
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: why sonja?
[2008/06/28 10:39] Sonja Strom: I don’t think it is needed.
[2008/06/28 10:40] Bjerkel Eerie: you cant vote for MT PP!
[2008/06/28 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i know
[2008/06/28 10:40] You: DPU have any views they wish to express? As you’ve been silent
[2008/06/28 10:40] You: I will wait a moment for MT. Will give Sonja a chance to comment if she wishes, before he votes 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i have talked to fr and dnate and they are for it
[2008/06/28 10:40] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 10:41] Sonja Strom: I am not in a position to speak for the faction really, but my personal view, and as a member of the RA, is that this conversation is a bit out of place, and getting ahead of the actual situation at hand.
[2008/06/28 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja doesnt understand the motion
[2008/06/28 10:41] Sonja Strom: thanks
[2008/06/28 10:41] You: I note the motion passed 3-1-0, but let’s hear Sonja’s comments if she has more, hm?
[2008/06/28 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: it is simply to have a commission to discuss the need for CDS to become a legal entity at some point
[2008/06/28 10:42] You: (and Sonja we only are voting to research it, not to do it yet)
[2008/06/28 10:42] Sonja Strom: I think we can do that, but this is not the time for it.
[2008/06/28 10:42] Sonja Strom: We have other things that we are working on (or should be) that are unfinished.
[2008/06/28 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: like what
[2008/06/28 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: im worried
[2008/06/28 10:43] You: ah 🙂 Sonja, I suggested a time rule that will bring it to the next RA for them to handle it as they see fit 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:43] Sonja Strom: ok, you can do what you want, but you asked what my view was.
[2008/06/28 10:44] Sonja Strom: I think a new commission for this subject is not necessary at this point.
[2008/06/28 10:44] Sonja Strom: If we want information, we can just have someone look into it and make a report.
[2008/06/28 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: thats what a commission is
[2008/06/28 10:45] Jamie Palisades nods – we have too many, I agree 🙂 I will see if I can make this one work a little better than some of the others I have seen. But I appreciate your constructive criticism, Sonja.
[2008/06/28 10:45] Alexicon Kurka: so what else do you want to know from the chancellor?
—-
[2008/06/28 10:41] You: I note the motion passed 3-1-0, but let’s hear Sonja’s comments if she has more, hm?
[2008/06/28 10:45] You: Q&A for Alexicon?
[2008/06/28 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: wheres my money for the guided tour
[2008/06/28 10:45] MT Lundquist: perhaps you could be more direct prin
[2008/06/28 10:46] Alexicon Kurka: last time we talked we agreed that it would be better to let it bought directly by Sudane or Aleasi (
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats insane
[2008/06/28 10:46] Alexicon Kurka: as I didn’t hear anything from you I supposed it was fixed
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: what ever
[2008/06/28 10:46] Alexicon Kurka: please
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: you didnt hear anything from me? or anyone else about this
[2008/06/28 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and why in gods name would sudane, who is supposed to be only a puppet or something, own our tour
[2008/06/28 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: but your decision not to give me the money the RA authorized stands i suppose
[2008/06/28 10:47] Alexicon Kurka: as it concerns collective property, we agreed that it is better to treat it like that, and let either the archivist or the estate manager to own it
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: did you give them the money?
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: and direct them to buy it
[2008/06/28 10:48] Bjerkel Eerie: how much money is at issue here?
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: or what i was supposed to do that?
[2008/06/28 10:48] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: a measly 7k that i make in half the day
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i was supposed to tell aliasi to buy something
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: and how was i supposed to get the money to them?
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA directed me to purchase it
[2008/06/28 10:49] Alexicon Kurka: it’s your project I only facilitate you, I am really sorry it not done yet. Sudane HAS the money
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: it was in the budget, fine if i dont do it,
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: but if you change the RAs vote
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: which you did
[2008/06/28 10:49] You: OK, Sister Prin, let’s stay polite – but I have to agree, as I thought this request was made a loooooong time ago. Alexicon, I was told by Sudane that she never heard that you authorized Prin’s reimbursement. So we have passed a motion here to ask you to officially approve or reject it by next Saturday. (This was before you came, this morning.)
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: then you need to fix it
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: it was jamie, i am just so fricken confused
[2008/06/28 10:50] You: agreed Prin
[2008/06/28 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: I don’t really care it’s just a total joke
[2008/06/28 10:50] You: Alex, to be specfic: have you been asked to reimburse this?
[2008/06/28 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: so the RA approved a budget item, i am told aliasi should buy it not who the RA said, and then its up to me to direct a person to money
[2008/06/28 10:50] Alexicon Kurka: OK to be clear: I will ask Sudane to buy whatever TP ask her, right?
[2008/06/28 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: Alexicon Kurka: last time we talked we agreed that it would be better to let it bought directly by Sudane or Aliasi
[2008/06/28 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the point is simply we have no process that anyone seems to understand who needs to
[2008/06/28 10:51] You: Hmm, well, if she already has bought it — I guess you have to buy it … from Prin, yes?
[2008/06/28 10:51] Alexicon Kurka: I did mention the subject to Sudane, though I never gave her any explicit orders
[2008/06/28 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: who has to buy it?
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: and how does he override our vote?
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: can he do that
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care if he can?
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i am just curious
[2008/06/28 10:52] You: well that’s a good Q prin
[2008/06/28 10:52] You: here is what I think is the case
[2008/06/28 10:53] You: CDS law gives the chancellor a heck of a lot of power
[2008/06/28 10:53] You: and the RA has not chosen to constrain it much
[2008/06/28 10:53] You: and this includes any process for approving expenditures 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:54] You: that’s why I asked for a presentation from Sudane a few weeks ago on how expenses actualy work: [see] /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1921
[2008/06/28 10:54] You: any other questions on this item?
[2008/06/28 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: well the process is either really bad, or not circulated
[2008/06/28 10:54] You: 🙂 I entirely agree
[2008/06/28 10:54] Alexicon Kurka: 😉
[2008/06/28 10:54] MT Lundquist: bj you dont have to stand in the corner
[2008/06/28 10:55] You: Other Qs?
[2008/06/28 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: in my face and ill eject you
[2008/06/28 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi tickles bj
[2008/06/28 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: what are you doing?
[2008/06/28 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: get in
—-
[2008/06/28 10:57] Alexicon Kurka: I have a question myself: what is the status of the commerce committee?

[2008/06/28 10:57] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its been done a long time
[2008/06/28 10:57] MT Lundquist: the report has been made to the ra
[2008/06/28 10:57] MT Lundquist: i missed the last view meetings
[2008/06/28 10:57] You: We are waiting for someone to come make a mnotionto approve it, I think
[2008/06/28 10:57] MT Lundquist: of ra
[2008/06/28 10:57] Alexicon Kurka: is it publicly available?
[2008/06/28 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: did we ever vote
[2008/06/28 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: and Alexi, when we last discussed it, there was one controversial part, so I think it will be a long discussion
[2008/06/28 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i move that we approve it
[2008/06/28 10:58] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lol he rewrote that part
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: 🙂 that’s efficient
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: can we get the URI?
[2008/06/28 10:58] MT Lundquist: ok just a sec
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: and since this is Alexi’s report, Alexi, do you mind if we divert to take that action?
[2008/06/28 10:58] Alexicon Kurka: np
[2008/06/28 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: he’s looking for it
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: It is not on the agenda but the RA has the right to amend that 🙂 I will take this as a consensual amendment
[2008/06/28 10:59] Alexicon Kurka: sure
[2008/06/28 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA has rights? omg no no no !
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: Sonja? You OK with where we are procedurally?
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: haha
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: a few
[2008/06/28 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: do you like this hair? im looking for some more
[2008/06/28 11:00] You: I am digging for the URI also
[2008/06/28 11:00] MT Lundquist: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11378
[2008/06/28 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt found it
[2008/06/28 11:00] Alexicon Kurka: thanks mt
[2008/06/28 11:01] You: ah OK – to be clear – this is the 31 May revision by MT of the Commerce Commission final report legislation
[2008/06/28 11:01] You: May I just metion that it now says that a ‘noncommercial’ plot pays more rent
[2008/06/28 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: he took out the part that a statue of me goes in the forum
[2008/06/28 11:02] You: if it’s supposed to be commercial
[2008/06/28 11:02] MT Lundquist: yes 31st may
[2008/06/28 11:02] You: Alexi, any comment on this one?
[2008/06/28 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: where does it say that
[2008/06/28 11:02] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/06/28 11:02] You: Prin, it’s in the paragraph immediately aboce the line “misc. recommendations”
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: it says a plot that is used for non commercial activity
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: #ie a commercial plot
[2008/06/28 11:03] Alexicon Kurka: it’s true that non commercial plots play more tier, but most commercial plots out there are rentals
[2008/06/28 11:03] Alexicon Kurka: not on cds we have chosen not to rent
[2008/06/28 11:03] You: I said it badly though sorry
[2008/06/28 11:03] You: what i mean is IF a lot IS commrcial BUT the user is not BEING commercial
[2008/06/28 11:03] You: they pay double rent to CDS .. tier, rent, whatever we call the monthly land payments to CEDS via the Treasurer’s alt
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: it was to move away from the issue of taking land
[2008/06/28 11:04] MT Lundquist: but to put some sanction on abuse of covenent
[2008/06/28 11:04] Alexicon Kurka: Well, myself I think if a commercial plot is not used as such, we could reconsider it’s classification after some time, but it is procedurally complex
[2008/06/28 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan said we should fine them
[2008/06/28 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: but first help them
[2008/06/28 11:05] MT Lundquist: and i followed beathans lead
[2008/06/28 11:05] You: MT? Is the land that IS commercial designated as such already? Or will the chancellor or someone need to explicitly zone it, after this, to make this work?
[2008/06/28 11:05] MT Lundquist: some land is zoned commercial
[2008/06/28 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its already zoned
[2008/06/28 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: basically its just more consequences and clarifying the covenents
[2008/06/28 11:06] You: ok 🙂 sorry I am ignorant. How? How would a citizen know if ther plot is one of those?
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: if we dont do this
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: then there are no teeth to con=venents
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: the RA can decide that of course
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: but then covenents would be meaningless
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: god forbid roman bathhouses
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: and orgy houses
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: rooms
[2008/06/28 11:07] You: can anyone tell me how to prove which parcels are ‘commercial’?
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: it says it on the land
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: there is a plat map
[2008/06/28 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: the land is all zoned when its built the covenent says which
[2008/06/28 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you read your covenant on the land jamie
[2008/06/28 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: jon said most ppl dont.. you clicked a box that said you read your covenent
[2008/06/28 11:08] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:08] Alexicon Kurka: from all ides heard, increasing the tier sounds the most feasibile management tool
[2008/06/28 11:08] You: I will make two sugestions then
[2008/06/28 11:09] You: (1) Since his will affect rent collection, I will make a motion to amend: that the penalty clauses all start applying on August 1. The July rent cycle already started, so let’s make this easy to ad-
[2008/06/28 11:09] You: -minister if we are going to do it. Any issues with that? or a second?
[2008/06/28 11:10] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/06/28 11:11] You: Any objection to amendment or ready to vote on amendment?
[2008/06/28 11:11] Jamie Palisades looks at Sonja
[2008/06/28 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: ready
[2008/06/28 11:11] MT Lundquist: ready
[2008/06/28 11:11] You: ok …. members please state your vote on the amendment (1 August) only. I vote yes.
[2008/06/28 11:11] Sonja Strom: sorry, I got lost in exactly what the motion is
[2008/06/28 11:11] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 11:11] MT Lundquist: and prin will be back in a sec
[2008/06/28 11:11] You: np 🙂 for sonja: …
[2008/06/28 11:12] Bjerkel Eerie: could you state the amendment?
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: we are voting on an amedment ..
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: the amendment is to make the effective date 1 August …
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: .. and this would modify the main motion which is …
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: .. to approve the Commerce Comm plan at the URI:
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11378
[2008/06/28 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: done 🙂 Sonja, does that help?
[2008/06/28 11:13] Sonja Strom: yes, thanks
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: we will have another amendment, then the main motion, so at least 2 more votes
[2008/06/28 11:13] Sonja Strom: I vote aye on the amendment to the motion

[2008/06/28 11:13] You: Here’s my 2nd and last proposed amendment:
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: Second proposed amendment: ‘commercial’ rules only can apply if the land is marked in the land’s metadata as ‘commercial’ — and we direct the Chancellor to get those done & the plots all marked with correct metadata by 1 August
2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: can i say something to ease the public outcry please
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: hahaha
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: last i looked no one seemed to be in violation
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: not that i decide
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: im just saying
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: I agree Prin 🙂 FWIW, this is not like there are a lot of people who are about to suffer
[2008/06/28 11:14] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: it was way worse a year ago
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: no exactly
[2008/06/28 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: I think just the discussion of this has gootten ppls attention
[2008/06/28 11:15] Alexicon Kurka: yes CDS does improve
[2008/06/28 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:15] You: so we have a motion and second on the 2d amendment (which is about marking commercial land as such)
[2008/06/28 11:15] You: any discussion?
[2008/06/28 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: no .. someone told me I talk to much
[2008/06/28 11:16] Jamie Palisades looks around … ready for a vote on amendment #2? I am, smile
[2008/06/28 11:17] You: … members please state your vote on the amendment. I vote yes
[2008/06/28 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 11:17] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 11:17] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/28 11:17] You: OK. Both motions passed without objection so we have a motion as amended
[2008/06/28 11:18] You: let me remind you all that this also establishes a chamber of commerce
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you Alexicon
[2008/06/28 11:18] Alexicon Kurka: congrats
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: nice
[2008/06/28 11:18] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:18] MT Lundquist: wow thats hair
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: we need one
[2008/06/28 11:18] You: and that we clarified, at a prior RA meeting, that this C of C would REPLACE the older merchant groups, which have gone dormant
[2008/06/28 11:18] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/28 11:18] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: neat
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: more discussion on motion as amended?
[2008/06/28 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: what is there to discuss
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: hee hee I have to ask – it’s my job
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: for 34 more days
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: 13 hours
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: hmm
[2008/06/28 11:20] Alexicon Kurka: haha counting down?
[2008/06/28 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you cant wait!
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: 39 minutes 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:20] Alexicon Kurka: lol
[2008/06/28 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and im not in anymore so it would be easy
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: ahem – ready to vote?
[2008/06/28 11:20] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: or should we all stare at Prin’s very large sci fi weapon?
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: oops gone 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:20] MT Lundquist: it was a battle nun
[2008/06/28 11:20] Sonja Strom: I was wondering what that was
[2008/06/28 11:21] MT Lundquist: apparently
[2008/06/28 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/06/28 11:21] You: OK. On main motion as amended (Commerce Commission), members please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] You: Motion passes 4-0-0.
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: MT worked very hard and efficient at that one
[2008/06/28 11:22] You: High fives to successful commission chair MT!
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i think he had the most effective commsion todate
[2008/06/28 11:22] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: not that I’m biased
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: but actually I’m very hard on him
[2008/06/28 11:22] MT Lundquist: thats true
[2008/06/28 11:22] MT Lundquist: the ruler hurts
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: I mean I would be not praising him if I didnt think he did a good job, well great
[2008/06/28 11:22] Alexicon Kurka: I thank you all on your work on this subject
[2008/06/28 11:22] You: kids kids 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and a lot of citizens participated
[2008/06/28 11:23] You: Alexi, you have been patient with us 😀
[2008/06/28 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need to thank them
[2008/06/28 11:23] MT Lundquist: yes i would like to thank those who assisted
[2008/06/28 11:23] MT Lundquist: i think they are listed on the forum
—-
[2008/06/28 11:23] You: any other matters for Alex’s Q&A, as we are over our scheduled time?
[2008/06/28 11:23] Alexicon Kurka: yes my son is hungry, lol
[2008/06/28 11:23] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess’s hand.
[2008/06/28 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: aAexicon are you running for chancellor again? And what do i do now about the darn tour
[2008/06/28 11:23] You: (MT I will work with you to post something on this that thanks them again in a conspicuous way)
[2008/06/28 11:24] Alexicon Kurka: TP can you put it in place in July?
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: let him eat cake, it wont hurt him
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: where the f is it
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i cant put it in place then til i have it
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and the person who owns it has to install it cos its no transfer
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i think
[2008/06/28 11:24] You: um – is there a designated launching place for the tour vehicles?
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care, i dont even want to do it
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i am so sick of asking for the thing
[2008/06/28 11:25] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie its on the forum when the RA approved the plan
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: and the budget
[2008/06/28 11:25] You: kk thx
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: LAST TERM
[2008/06/28 11:25] Alexicon Kurka: I will fix it with Sudane within days
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: sirrt aneru
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ao
[2008/06/28 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry americans we sort of have time issues that are culturally different
[2008/06/28 11:26] Alexicon Kurka: if it is no transfer then You have to buy it.
[2008/06/28 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: i have cencored my answer to that
[2008/06/28 11:27] Alexicon Kurka: and you will sign a contract assuring that it belongs to CDS,
[2008/06/28 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: omg i might steal it!
[2008/06/28 11:27] Alexicon Kurka: people do leave cds
[2008/06/28 11:27] Alexicon Kurka: it’s no shame or stealing
[2008/06/28 11:27] You: Alexi, of course I am pretty sure a good ownership solution for the tour vehicles is posible 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: ok no worries i will sign a contract
[2008/06/28 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: or pay my aid to do it
[2008/06/28 11:28] Alexicon Kurka: good, again excuse for this delay I was sure it was on the way
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ;lskdjf;asldkfj
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: bleep
[2008/06/28 11:28] MT Lundquist: sometimes those censors work
[2008/06/28 11:28] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: bleep it was my fault like everything else
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: it was a clear political stragtegy
[2008/06/28 11:28] You: so 🙂 Alexi: I do want to come back to Prin’s other question. (And good for you for selfcensoring Prin …) It’s up to you whether to answer as this is a personal question, but I’m interested in whether you will run again also. I may, if you don’t, unless a majority faction comes in and wants to grab the whole pie.
[2008/06/28 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you so much sir LRA, its about time
[2008/06/28 11:29] Alexicon Kurka: I don’t plan to run next term for chancellor
[2008/06/28 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is running
[2008/06/28 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: Jamie are you running?
[2008/06/28 11:30] You: well what it’s past time for, actually, is to adjourn 🙂 But tha’s nice to know. Prin, you can’t think that I would be surprised if you have a candidate … :).
[2008/06/28 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: since you’ve lost an election now it shouldnt be so stressful… 🙁 first time and all
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: I have a candidate? like I own everyone?
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: oh I do
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: I forgot
[2008/06/28 11:31] You: I like to do things that promote constructive behavior and reduce nastiness 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im not nasty
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: are you calling me nasty sir?
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: now that toga, that was nasty.
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: wow, I actually stood up without jumping on top of my chair!
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: :-
[2008/06/28 11:32] Alexicon Kurka: OK so are we ready today?
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: 😀
[2008/06/28 11:32] You: so I would say that, if my being interested in the job were to bring out a lot of nasty behavior .. hypothetically .. from anyone .. I will be happy to take Cincinnatus’s approach and leave people to their fun 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you alexicon
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: bye all
[2008/06/28 11:32] MT Lundquist: bye sonja
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: bye sonja thanks for your time
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i promise im done being nasty in sl imma be nasty in rl
[2008/06/28 11:32] You: yes, thanks Alexi, I think we are – and if no objections, we are adjourned 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks alex and bells
[2008/06/28 11:33] Alexicon Kurka: I would appreciate any measures that discourage nasty behaviors and partisans
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: bells is running for RA jamie
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: well im not running
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so you can count on me not being nasty
[2008/06/28 11:33] Alexicon Kurka: so thank you all
[2008/06/28 11:33] You: Yes, she mentioned that , and I told her I thought she would do an excellent job
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: she will
[2008/06/28 11:33] You: we’re adjourned 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 11:33] Alexicon Kurka: see you next time, soon, TP you will hear from me soon
[2008/06/28 11:33] You: and as you knew well Prin
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: oh good alexicon i know you love me
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: as you grit your teeth
[2008/06/28 11:34] You: 🙂 the kind of behavior that concerns me is not limited to RA meetings
[2008/06/28 11:34] Alexicon Kurka: peace
[2008/06/28 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: what on earth are you talking about
[2008/06/28 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: all i do is sell togas
[2008/06/28 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: what hair should i wear
[2008/06/28 11:34] MT Lundquist: hi bells
[2008/06/28 11:34] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/06/28 11:34] Bells Semyorka: Hi MT, thanks for the TP hun
[2008/06/28 11:35] MT Lundquist: lol jamie
[2008/06/28 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: look at this dress
[2008/06/28 11:35] You: Cheers all 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:35] Bells Semyorka: I like the back, P you look Hott!
[2008/06/28 11:35] MT Lundquist: yes very open
[2008/06/28 11:35] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/196/185/179

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: July 05, 2008

[2008/07/05 9:02] MT Lundquist: hi jamie
[2008/07/05 9:02] You: Good morning Toga King
[2008/07/05 9:02] MT Lundquist: lol yes
[2008/07/05 9:02] MT Lundquist: hang on
[2008/07/05 9:02] You: I;m not really expecting a quorum by the way 🙂 but Prin did ask me to try
[2008/07/05 9:03] MT Lundquist: yes she said to me
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: hah – don’t strain anything inviting more people
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: I’ll be real happy for 10 mins then logoff
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: also – most of the rest are not online
[2008/07/05 9:03] MT Lundquist: do you want prin to login
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: let’s see
[2008/07/05 9:03] MT Lundquist: i’m on the phone to her
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: off = BV, Sonja, Gwyn …
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: no need I think – but tell her thanks
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: we got nothign that HAS to move this week anyway
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: Roc’s offline too
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: ?
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: ah JUST arrived
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: on radar
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: but let’s see 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi, sorry!!
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: Hi social democrat
[2008/07/05 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: n p at all
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: in fact we’re just discussing calling it a holiday
[2008/07/05 9:05] MT Lundquist: prins logging in
[2008/07/05 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re just 5 minutes after the hour 😀
[2008/07/05 9:05] You: sonja, FR and BV are offline
[2008/07/05 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For now… 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:05] You: but yes we can do with four if there’s business to conduct, smile
[2008/07/05 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ve got an agenda posted, so…. 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:05] You: hmnoutfit for you flower girl
[2008/07/05 9:06] You: new one
[2008/07/05 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… no, that’s an old one 😉
[2008/07/05 9:06] You: oh by the way speaking of your fashion victim rep, did you see that Soleil scooped all your oldies but goodies at the auction?
[2008/07/05 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: two and a half years old… i think the designer already left SL 😀
[2008/07/05 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!… No, I didn’t notice that 😀
[2008/07/05 9:07] You: well I am always grateful on artistic principles to see any attempt at asymmetry in clothes
[2008/07/05 9:07] MT Lundquist: oh i do asymetry in togas
[2008/07/05 9:07] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:07] MT Lundquist: sometimes intentionally
[2008/07/05 9:07] You: strike a blow for variety!
[2008/07/05 9:07] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha well
[2008/07/05 9:08] MT Lundquist: strange the more skin pixels uncovered the better they sell
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My fashion newsletter told me that this summer, assymetry is “in” again,
[2008/07/05 9:08] You: hm really? Maybe that’s just a toga thing though
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I looked through my old outfits… 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe MT — just like iRL!
[2008/07/05 9:08] You: ah well, i do not think I subscribe to those, grin
[2008/07/05 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The less fabric, the more expensive the outfit!!
[2008/07/05 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn never understood the logic of that one
[2008/07/05 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then again, why should it have any logic??
[2008/07/05 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/05 9:10] MT Lundquist: yes i guess thats the way
[2008/07/05 9:11] Jamie Palisades smiles placidly
[2008/07/05 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles as well and waits…
[2008/07/05 9:11] You: Nice of you both to come, but I think at 15 after the hour, I may go start my holiday BBQ preparations
[2008/07/05 9:11] You: by the way
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine for me, but…
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: Arria asked me to set up a RA election debate again, as she’s running and I’m not
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … wasn’t the holiday *yesterday*? 😀
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: so I will get a message around to the factions & candidates
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’ve heard she got permissions from Alex to do the debate and all
[2008/07/05 9:12] MT Lundquist: hi bromo
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
[2008/07/05 9:12] MT Lundquist: hi lve
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin arrives at the same time as Bromo!
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: Hi Bromo
[2008/07/05 9:12] Bromo Ivory: Hi Guys
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi both 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:13] Bromo Ivory: Hi Gwyn – I suppose this dispells the rumors we are alts
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: is he my alt?
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: oh? Hi Prin
[2008/07/05 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bromo: indeed 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: Yikes not in all white I hope
[2008/07/05 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha I think not!…
[2008/07/05 9:13] MT Lundquist: whose alt am i then
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: Quick question you lot
[2008/07/05 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you have against white????
[2008/07/05 9:13] Bromo Ivory: LOL
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: see how can you tpqt the same time
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the cape is the latest addition to the collection
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: 🙂 MT you are special, you can be my alt too if you like
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: ill sell you one
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: “I am legion .. i contain multitudes”
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: where are all my alts
[2008/07/05 9:13] Bromo Ivory: No – everyone in this room is my alt
[2008/07/05 9:13] MT Lundquist: thanks jamie
[2008/07/05 9:13] MT Lundquist: oh yes i forgot i’m bromo
[2008/07/05 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might be…
[2008/07/05 9:14] Bromo Ivory: And you better not forget it, Mister
[2008/07/05 9:14] You: that’s a nice statement of the solipsist view, Bromo
[2008/07/05 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: whewre the fuck is my throne
[2008/07/05 9:14] Bromo Ivory: Oh yes Gwyn, you are, too
[2008/07/05 9:14] Jamie Palisades grins and points to the chairs
[2008/07/05 9:14] Bromo Ivory: My alt would never say the f-word
[2008/07/05 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/05 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i was just kidding
[2008/07/05 9:14] MT Lundquist: so maybe we are all prins
[2008/07/05 9:14] You: so kids
[2008/07/05 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a throne in NFS 😉
[2008/07/05 9:14] You: we got any actual business today?
[2008/07/05 9:15] DivineLolita Demonia: Heya
[2008/07/05 9:15] You: (I do not think I knew that, Gwyn) – where?
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: i still dont have the damn money for the guided tour
[2008/07/05 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine until 11:30 😀
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: and i want an audit
[2008/07/05 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: jamie, in the Schloss!
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: thats all i have
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so bromo
[2008/07/05 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Divine!
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: bromo did you plan to take my seat today
[2008/07/05 9:15] MT Lundquist: hi devine
[2008/07/05 9:15] DivineLolita Demonia: are you all governing today? giggles
[2008/07/05 9:16] Bromo Ivory: Why would I?
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re looking for a quorum 😉
[2008/07/05 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: we have one
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have one 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:16] Bromo Ivory looks under seat for that little beast
[2008/07/05 9:16] MT Lundquist: although jamie seems quiet
[2008/07/05 9:16] DivineLolita Demonia: frowns.. a quorum? looks in her little hand bag.. Nope I dont have one sorry..
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He’s…. meditating
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “ommm”
[2008/07/05 9:16] Bromo Ivory eeps.
[2008/07/05 9:17] MT Lundquist: narcalepsy
[2008/07/05 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/05 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry im texturing
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: narolepsy
[2008/07/05 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s too early for him I guess…
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i look
[2008/07/05 9:17] MT Lundquist: regal
[2008/07/05 9:17] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: the new cape is ok ?
[2008/07/05 9:17] DivineLolita Demonia: Slightly Irrevarant? giggles
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: who is she?
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi points to devine
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: like a princess in a fantasy movie 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:18] You: narco indeed 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, she was here before!
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: when
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh a month or so ago?
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont remember her
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t remember exactly, Divine
[2008/07/05 9:18] You: I didn’t want a meeting myself – too much going on today – but our New Concept for LRAs is to be a servant leader 🙂 so I am trying to model a set of behaviors here
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: what do you want us to do jamie
[2008/07/05 9:19] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: Hello again Loli!
[2008/07/05 9:19] DivineLolita Demonia: oh ‘im just here to watch if u dont mind … if i’m intruding i can go…
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re very welcome, Divine!
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: symo is our decorator
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: did we approve that
[2008/07/05 9:19] Bromo Ivory thinks Jamie introducing BDSM concepts to RA might be a little tough for some to adjust to
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Bromo
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: jamies a perv
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: well here’s the Q 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: Prin, MT, Gwyn, do any of you have business you wish to conduct today? (If you say yes let’s convene quickly and do it. If not let’s not.)
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i do
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I’d say, let’s follow the agenda
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I second prin’s points too
[2008/07/05 9:19] MT Lundquist: well i wore latex last week
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha MT!
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: DLolita? No prob at all it’s an open meeting
[2008/07/05 9:19] Bromo Ivory: But Gwyn – its hidden as usual
[2008/07/05 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds herself to get some PVC next Saturday
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you got that right jamie
[2008/07/05 9:20] You: next saturday?
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: what happens then?
[2008/07/05 9:20] You: what, are we having CDS latex week or something? siiiigh
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: naked nucare
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i think thats their slogan
[2008/07/05 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/05 9:20] MT Lundquist: bare nucare
[2008/07/05 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: NuBare?
[2008/07/05 9:20] You: Quick run though the admin items then 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: texture my box
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: let’s come to order
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: that sounds dirty
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: wait
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: dont make me be in order
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye aye cap’n Palisades!
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: Prin can make salacious offers later 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanna show you
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg Prin
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: and MT can texture his box at his leisure
[2008/07/05 9:21] MT Lundquist: notice its me who gets to be naked
[2008/07/05 9:21] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: they are reuining our faction
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha MT yes
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: so this is what? a new microtoga?
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nice tats 😉
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh
[2008/07/05 9:22] MT Lundquist: yes very small
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Microtoga, right…
[2008/07/05 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: then they have this
[2008/07/05 9:22] You: if it’s infinitely small, MT, can you charge an infinite price??
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[2008/07/05 9:22] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh that one is nice too, who took the picture?
[2008/07/05 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: its pathetic how they have made a mockery of all my work
[2008/07/05 9:22] MT Lundquist: of course i could attend ra dressed like that
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn has no objection 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: weqll it’s good to know your platform 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What rumours are true? 😉
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: can we lose it for now please?
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: look at her butt
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ok
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I did
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: rose thinks shes my alt
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure she thinks that 😉
—-
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: Please assent to recording – I Assent
[2008/07/05 9:23] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: That’s 1a 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I assent as well…
[2008/07/05 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i assend
[2008/07/05 9:24] Bromo Ivory: I assent
—-
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: 1b – any changes to agenda? it is short, an at :
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1941&p=11530#p11530
[2008/07/05 9:24] MT Lundquist: do you have the link to the agenda please
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: while you are looking
[2008/07/05 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin has suggested a few points, and I’ve seconded those
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: 1c – I see no one else who plans to speak today other than RA members?
[2008/07/05 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gyweneth llewellen
[2008/07/05 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Moon apologises, but she can’t come in-world today to give any reports from the Guild; I don’t know if there are any other Guild members available
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: hm – Prin could you restate those? what additions to agenda?
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: (No need Gwyn)
—-
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: and while we are waiting, also, 1d:
[2008/07/05 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ThePrincess Parisi: i still donet have the damn money for the guided tour | and I want an audit
[2008/07/05 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: Please send me any corrections to the poted transcripts.
[2008/07/05 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: ah the reimb 🙂 that’s on the agenda as 1f
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, verifying why the Executive is not paying for events that have been budgeted and approved for!
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: and let’s add audit after ite 2 hmn?
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry â€” you’re so right
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[2008/07/05 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: what else do we have left hanging
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: those two items only, then, Prin? Both added 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: added
—-
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: 1e
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: we plan to meet on the 12th, 19th and 26th June
[2008/07/05 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *July
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: then new RA is seated
[2008/07/05 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: what else is on the agenda.. i am concerned the election rules committee didnt ever bring anything
[2008/07/05 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whoops
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: ha ha quit right thanks Gwyn, 12-19-26 July
[2008/07/05 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: that’s on agenda under item 3 Prin
[2008/07/05 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
—-
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: so 1f 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: consent
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: and I have a proposed item
[2008/07/05 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why the wall behind Bromo and MT is missing
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: Last week we asked our chancellor to act on the outstanding reimb requests to Prin
[2008/07/05 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he would
[2008/07/05 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:28] MT Lundquist: its not
[2008/07/05 9:28] Bromo Ivory thinks its a plot by Michel
[2008/07/05 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah, good to know, MT)
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: and give us an answer within a week
[2008/07/05 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week is now over.
[2008/07/05 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: (And Michel’s my alt, just to be clear about that)
[2008/07/05 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i have no clue but to make me look like a idiot
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: (however)
[2008/07/05 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: michels alt is my otheroalt
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: (I Will NOT tattoo his name on my butt. Sorry.)
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: so
[2008/07/05 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2008/07/05 9:30] You: would any RA member like to take further action regarding the lack of answer? I know of no response.
[2008/07/05 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do ?
[2008/07/05 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the only option we have is to kick out the Chancellor really…
[2008/07/05 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: shall we call him and hang him by his toes
[2008/07/05 9:30] You: Per last week our options are – ask Sudane, Ask Alex again, impeach
[2008/07/05 9:30] DivineLolita Demonia: is he an alt too? gigggles
[2008/07/05 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not 😀
[2008/07/05 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: well………. i think we should threaten empeachment.. one last chance and we go for it
[2008/07/05 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: stall the election
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… this is serious actually
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor cannot ignore us…
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a terrible precedent
[2008/07/05 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: it is, and its not about me.. but it is a pattern of mismanagement of funds in s CDS as whole
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, one thing at the time.One was a clear request
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which was ignored
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: it should include an audit though….
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need an explanation .. for all we know he asked sudane for money and he said no
[2008/07/05 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As much as I love Alex personally, I’d give him a few days to fully explain why he didn’t comply with our request, and then threaten removal from office (and yes, this is a motion!)
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/05 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who said no, Sudane?
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: let him explain..
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: well, gwyeneth, maybe its sudane not alexicon quite possibly
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: who is the one stalling
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i have reason to believe sudane has issues with money
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so lets have alexicon explain
[2008/07/05 9:33] Bromo Ivory glares at Prin
[2008/07/05 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So we have to figure that out, and I’d say that the first step is to ask the Chancellor, since he heads the Executive
[2008/07/05 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/07/05 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If he doesn’t answer, we threaten with removal from office…
[2008/07/05 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: so where is he?
[2008/07/05 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If he answers but we don’t like the answer 🙂 … then I’d say we’ll discuss it on the next RA on the 12th
[2008/07/05 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: gywneth you told me that sudane takes a profit.. out of CDS.. how does that happen.. and where is it recorded?
[2008/07/05 9:35] You: hmmm
[2008/07/05 9:35] Bromo Ivory looks at Prin asking her to be quiet (in IM)
[2008/07/05 9:35] You: might not wan tto get into that just yet – let’s deal with the chancelor issue first, hm?
[2008/07/05 9:35] You: Taking Gwyn’s lead …
[2008/07/05 9:35] MT Lundquist: its important to understand where the money goes though
[2008/07/05 9:36] You: anyone wish to move to remind the Chancellor of his promise to resolve the request within a week, and notify him that we will consider his removal at our next meeting if there is no reply?
[2008/07/05 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 9:36] You: I agree it’s a strong move – but well 🙂 if that’s the ony option we have, you can do that
[2008/07/05 9:37] You: and I agre the rest is important too MT, just want to get this bit resolved first
[2008/07/05 9:37] Bromo Ivory: Given the term is over shortly … and Alex won’t be Chancellor ….
[2008/07/05 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: of course if he was from another faction it would be political
[2008/07/05 9:37] You: (Note if I can take that as Prin’s motion it does NOT require him to PAY just to ANSWER)
[2008/07/05 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: so if sudane takes a profit from CDS like gwyen said, then all of CDS is a total joke and not what we areled to believe right?
[2008/07/05 9:37] You: (and if that was a motion I need a second)
[2008/07/05 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed.. just to
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: hm I guess we could let it die for lack of a second? MT? Gwyn?
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: She’s asleep 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: who?
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: this is your chance to sit in Gwyn’s lap Prin
[2008/07/05 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: id rather puke
[2008/07/05 9:39] Bromo Ivory starts selling tickets
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: seee how often THAT occurs
[2008/07/05 9:40] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you know she kinda makes me ill
[2008/07/05 9:40] You: tsk 🙂 let’s be polite in meetings, within reason
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: polite?.. regurgitate is that better
[2008/07/05 9:40] MT Lundquist: alex is on
[2008/07/05 9:40] You: no second then?
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ill second it
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: 🙂 uou made the motion
[2008/07/05 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well..
[2008/07/05 9:41] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: there we go
[2008/07/05 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i thought i had two votes
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: any disussion?
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises and is back again
[2008/07/05 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: dont read back , its fine.
[2008/07/05 9:41] MT Lundquist: we quickly jump out of gwyns lap
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: motion in chat above, bascially a reminder and a hint of possible removal if there’s no answer
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: *reminder
[2008/07/05 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: any more discussion?
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: ready to vote? Seems so
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: alexicon turned up
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: All in favor of the motion plase say aye.
[2008/07/05 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: oh – we shoud stop?
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: well hes not answering IMs
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: it’s your motion 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees Alex
[2008/07/05 9:42] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: I suggest we withdraw the vote and start over
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: hes here!
[2008/07/05 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, well, if Alex is here, he can answer directly 😀
[2008/07/05 9:43] MT Lundquist: hi alex
[2008/07/05 9:43] You: Ahh Alex
[2008/07/05 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: hi all
[2008/07/05 9:43] DivineLolita Demonia: yey! another alt! giggles
[2008/07/05 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for the sake of “defending my honour”, Prin claims that I’ve said that: “ThePrincess Parisi: so if sudane takes a profit from CDS like gwyen said, then all of CDS is a total joke and not what we areled to believe right” â€” I actually said the total opposite, Sudane is NOT taking a ‘profit’ from the CDS 😛
[2008/07/05 9:43] You: Thanks for dropping in, we were just considering asking you to answer our question last week or trying to remove you next week – which I suppose would be a favor to you …
[2008/07/05 9:43] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: oh excuse me
[2008/07/05 9:44] You: Alexi can you let us know if you approved or denied Prin’s requests for reimbursement from last week?
[2008/07/05 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie, well put 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:44] MT Lundquist: m
[2008/07/05 9:44] MT Lundquist is seeing double
[2008/07/05 9:44] MT Lundquist: there are many prins
[2008/07/05 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: you wish
[2008/07/05 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: no one but you does
[2008/07/05 9:44] Bromo Ivory: Oh no not another one
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt know you can do that
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: put your cursor on the chair and left click
[2008/07/05 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* it works if the chair is programmed that way
[2008/07/05 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Alex left?
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: why did he leave
[2008/07/05 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/05 9:46] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2008/07/05 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: omg .. ok you said no one BUT sudane would do that for no profit thts right
[2008/07/05 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i stand corrected
[2008/07/05 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I see his hair again!
[2008/07/05 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: sorry I crashed
[2008/07/05 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: welcome back
[2008/07/05 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:46] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/07/05 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: did you get the RA’s question. Alex? 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: so you had a lot of questions for me
[2008/07/05 9:47] MT Lundquist: we were just finding the most comfy chair
[2008/07/05 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: you want me to give up the chaNCELORSHIP A FEW WEEKS EARLIER?
[2008/07/05 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooooo
[2008/07/05 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: noooooooooooo
[2008/07/05 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/05 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: just answer the question
[2008/07/05 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: what was the question?
[2008/07/05 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: about reimbushment for thePrincess?
[2008/07/05 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [9:44] Jamie Palisades: Alexi can you let us know if you approved or denied Prin’s requests for reimbursement from last week?
[2008/07/05 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi holds out her right hand plalm up and points to the empty hand
[2008/07/05 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: I did talk with Sudane this week about it. She would discuss with Gwyn about the transfer problems.
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: GWYEN?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: I asked thePrincess to still look for a tranferable gadget
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: she has to talk with gwyen?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Transfer problems??
[2008/07/05 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: you did NOT
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: when did you ask me that?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: I IMed you
[2008/07/05 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) What transfer problems? and 2) What do *I* have to do with it? 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: my IMs are capped every day cos of my business
[2008/07/05 9:49] You: ?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: the tour version thePrincess wants to buy is no transfer
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: my porofile said that
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: profile.. and i have no clue if its transfer or not
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so? I’m not a Linden, I cannot change permissions on other people’s objects :))
[2008/07/05 9:50] You: Alexi I thought she did buy it already – no Prin?
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and I DONT WANNA BUY IT
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: this is not about me!
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: it was approved by the rA as a budget idtem
[2008/07/05 9:50] You: (ha ha Gwyn can they do that?)
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly.
[2008/07/05 9:50] Alexicon Kurka: also the other idea of having Sudane buy it would not work after all
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Jamie)
[2008/07/05 9:50] You: prin dear – do you have one in your inventory that CDS can use, or not?
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: ithat data will resolve Alexi’s issue i think
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOO i refuse to buy one with MY money cos CDS NEVER reimburses
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the whole issue of the thing!!!!!
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: then there is no need to reimburse you yet, right?
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: doesnt anyone get it……………
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: you just want them to get on with it and buy the vehicle, I take it?
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: WE APPROVED A ITEM TO BUY
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: I NEED THE MONEY TO BUY IT WITH
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: OR SOMEONE
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: WTF IS THE PROBLEM
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: tP the money is not the issue, that has been approved
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: the ownership is
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: WHY DO WE APPROVE A BUDGET ITEM
[2008/07/05 9:52] DivineLolita Demonia: blushes
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: WHO OWNS ANYTHIN G IN CDS.. HOW DO WE HAVE ANYTHING
[2008/07/05 9:52] You: Alexi has said — correct me if I am wrong — that he wants Sudane or the Guild or some neutral to own it, right Alexi?
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: thank you Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, but I don’t understand.
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: I DONT GIVE A CRAP WHO OWNS THE DARN THING.. WHY HASNT IT BEEN BOUGHT IN SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, prin
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the question
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest are silly details!
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: DO YOU THINK I WANT 4K LINDENS
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: SO I CAN RETIRE OR SOMETHING
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: FFFFFFS
[2008/07/05 9:53] Jamie Palisades grins — Alexi, if Prin gets you the data on the precise item, can you get someone within the executive to buy it this next week, say within 7 days after she gives you the item information?
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to agree with Prin wholeheartedly
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: its why is the process…………….so messed up
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s insane even, Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: yes I can Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:53] You: (Prin, I’d save more than L$4000 to retire, personally)
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7 days to buy an *item*!?
[2008/07/05 9:53] You: OK 🙂 propose a shorter time, Gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:54] Alexicon Kurka: np Gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:54] MT Lundquist: hi soro
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, I don’t get that
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i motion that gwyn owns the guided tour
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: really
[2008/07/05 9:54] You: I was told by a flower wearing friend once that we all are volunteers ultimately and such have to be reasonable 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: so does sudane run this place or what?
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed…
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: so lets let sudane decided who owns the guided tour
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least she’s stalling it 😀
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: oHHH NO its not sudanes stim?
[2008/07/05 9:55] You: OK 🙂 Princess moved that the tour be owned by Gwyn. Any second or reactions to that?
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOO i take it back
[2008/07/05 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: life would be much simpler if you buy a tranferrable version thePrincess
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s plain stupid!
[2008/07/05 9:55] You: oopsie 🙂 OK
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I MOVE THAT SUDANE BE AUDITED
[2008/07/05 9:55] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: well
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: chickens
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, according to my bad memory,
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ten foot pole again
[2008/07/05 9:55] You: I think we’re all talking about a general topic here, so even though that’s a bit off agenda, I think it’s relevant
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Treasurer has to give a monthly account on the finances
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: just like the forum we are so scared of sudane we are joke
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, I haven’t seen that in a while.
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: we do have a motion and second. I have some discussion. Maybe others do too? Gwyn?
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: well we dont have a proper audit ever
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d certainly second a motion to see that
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanna see a bank statement
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: mark out the RL Name
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: yah@
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, that’s against the LL ToS 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: where is the alleged 5k
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: hm I doubt there is one 🙂 I suspect there only is an SL account
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid I cannot agree with that 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: what!
[2008/07/05 9:56] MT Lundquist: whys it against tos
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: loll.. cds is a total complete joke!
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: Prin, as you know well, avatrs can run a positive balance in the LL acct
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: I assume that, if we have a reserve, that’s where it sits
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean a rl bank account statement
[2008/07/05 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes they can, and we can’t force people to reveal their RL data 😉
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: assume!
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: but we had a budget meeting with our treasurer to ask such questions 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: force?
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: sorry you weren’t able to join us.
[2008/07/05 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I mean through a request in the RA, Prin)
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: if shes got or hes got a money of ours…………….
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: I suggest an amendment to your motion
[2008/07/05 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think there is a bank account, just a running account with LL
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: then she needs to show us.. and take her name and mark out all rl datea but our money
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: … for one thing an “audit” means an expert outside review at a certain level which costs singificant RL money.
[2008/07/05 9:57] MT Lundquist: so we have 5kus in linden labs?
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: well if shes keep ing 5k in lindens?
[2008/07/05 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, it’s not *Sudane* that has the money, it’s Rudeen
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so the 5k is in lindens with LL
[2008/07/05 9:58] You: .. so I prefer “review” as a word
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and we never let her withdraw
[2008/07/05 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it’s 5k US$ with LL (LL allows both L$ and US$)
[2008/07/05 9:58] MT Lundquist: so if linden go bust or change their rules
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: they are the same person..??? who ever it doesnt matter
[2008/07/05 9:58] You: .. for another there are in fact some ToS issues here
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah so does she take money out
[2008/07/05 9:58] MT Lundquist: cds loses $5kUS
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: its just we have no clue what this really really is ..
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: its a joke is what it is
[2008/07/05 9:59] Alexicon Kurka: so will you provide us with the exact data of the item you wish to buy thePrincess?
[2008/07/05 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: brb im hungry
[2008/07/05 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The difference is that the “Rudeen” account has a separate login and password than Sudane’s 😉 The point being that different people might need to have access to the Estate Owner, say, if an accident happens, or the Treasurer changes or steps down, etc
[2008/07/05 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, *all* dealing with LL has risks
[2008/07/05 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the RA notes from ages ago.. six months ago..
[2008/07/05 9:59] You: Unfortunately Alex we have diverted at the members’ request friom the tour device issue to an auditing issue
[2008/07/05 9:59] MT Lundquist: yes but the moneys not even working
[2008/07/05 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, first things first.
[2008/07/05 10:00] DivineLolita Demonia: me too.. thank you for letting me sit in.. au revoir….
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a budget, right?
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the budget approved specifically that Prin was allowed to buy a guided tour thingy?
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m right so far?
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, it was not a “vague request” for “some money expenditure in the future”
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: .. so I move to amend Prin’s motion to convey to Sudane as CDS treasurer three things: (a) thanks for the presentation last month, (b) confirmation that the alt Rudeen Edo only holds CDS assets, and (c) her suggestion for a neutral party who can have full access to Rudeen’s LL acct US dollar and L$ transactions logs … for purposes of a review for conformity to the posted monthly financials.
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but a specific request: Prin wants to buy a guided tour thingy
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we’ve approved it
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: 🙂

[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now she needs the money
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it gets transferred to Prin. What’s the problem?
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: but Alexi wishes it to be owned by someone who has CDS executive powers
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s Alex’s *wish*
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Alex
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: Gwyn, I think he has answered us by saying, I will not approve the money until I know who will own the device
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we approved it would be Prin, it’s prin!
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If Alex dislikes the idea,
[2008/07/05 10:02] You: speak up if I am getting this wrong please Alex 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m willing to consider approving that it goes to someone else, but…
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (since our words are not written in stone etc)
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… that’s not what we’ve approved, is it?
[2008/07/05 10:02] You: Hmmm Gwyn: would the RA’s act specify ownership too? I guess it certainly can if we so act
[2008/07/05 10:02] You: This was before my time on RA 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I don’t remember the exact phrasing either
[2008/07/05 10:03] Alexicon Kurka: I want such gadgets to be owned or have a back up from the exec indeed
[2008/07/05 10:03] You: Prin? Did it say “Prin will own it?” or do we want to CYHANGE it to say that NOW?
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *had* the idea that the RA had approved Prin’s request
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ok
[2008/07/05 10:03] You: Me too Gwyn – but not that ownership was specified
[2008/07/05 10:03] MT Lundquist: i dont either i was getting prices for it at the time
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with allowing Alex to decide ownership
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems like an executive act to me 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it makes our work simpler.
[2008/07/05 10:04] MT Lundquist: does the owner have to program it?
[2008/07/05 10:04] You: OK, then — if that is the appropriate resolution, I see only two ways out. Either (a) Alexi approved Sudane to forwrad money to Prin, and she buys transferable .. or (b) Alexi approved someone else to go buy it now
[2008/07/05 10:04] Alexicon Kurka: so we all agree that Gwyn will own it? It is still much better if thePrincess can buy a tranferable version
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… if there are no objections, Alex has to nominate someone to own the thingy, scrap money out of our dear treasurer, buy it, end of story
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why me??? lol
[2008/07/05 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: what is the issue
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Jamie’s suggestion anyway
[2008/07/05 10:04] You: um it only responds to commands from hair flowers?
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Jamie
[2008/07/05 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: no gwyns not going to own the damn guided tour
[2008/07/05 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: what the is that about.. i said that as a joke!
[2008/07/05 10:05] You: Alex, will you approve Su giving Prin the money to buy a transferable version and then transfer it to whoever you like?
[2008/07/05 10:05] You: (if you say yes i think we are done)
[2008/07/05 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: yes np Jamie that’s the best
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: so jamie de….wait.. alexicon decideds who gets to put the tour out
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: when we had committees and it was approved by the RA already
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: the path everything was approved by the rA
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: this is absurd
[2008/07/05 10:06] Alexicon Kurka: thePrincess will you please anticipate and look for a transfer version?
[2008/07/05 10:07] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, point of information?
[2008/07/05 10:07] Soro Dagostino: Are there minutes of that meeting?
[2008/07/05 10:07] MT Lundquist: when i looked they were non trasferable
[2008/07/05 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A bit, I agree, prin, but I’d say that approving the budget is the RA’s problem; getting the item bought is the Exec’s
[2008/07/05 10:07] MT Lundquist: and if they still are then we have a problem
[2008/07/05 10:07] You: um Prin? RA *CAN* legislate who owns it if we like – but I do not think we have done so
[2008/07/05 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: we can ask the creator to sell us one that is transfer, but if he is smart it will cost a lot more
[2008/07/05 10:08] You: (Soro, yes, look here:)
[2008/07/05 10:08] You: viewforum.php?f=2
[2008/07/05 10:08] Soro Dagostino: kk
[2008/07/05 10:08] Soro Dagostino: later.
[2008/07/05 10:08] You: soooo if prin finds it’s nontransferable then Alexi needs to nominate someone to own it, yes?
[2008/07/05 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/05 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: let alexicon find the darn thing i dont haeve the time
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: this is ridiculous.. i move empeach
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: six doarn munthis
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: six months
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: later
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and hes saying a weird thing about who owns the thing are you nuts
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: its been six months
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and he comes up with this.. defying what we passed
[2008/07/05 10:09] You: hm well we have three actions on the table 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: in teh LAST session
[2008/07/05 10:09] You: .. would evveryone give me a minute to untangle them please
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 10:10] Alexicon Kurka: dear tP you did not anticipate at all at my request to look for a transfer version months ago
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: 1. audit issue – motion and amendment pending – on the table (on hold) for a bit
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: (and I do want to get back to that)
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: 2.
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: this reimbursement — which has turned out to be a tour vehicle purchase, not a reimbursement
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: and 3.
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i dont even know if its transfer or not! its 4k lindens
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: do you know how much money that is
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: Prin’s motion to impeach
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: omg!
[2008/07/05 10:11] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: 4k lindens
[2008/07/05 10:11] You: Prin can I finish?
[2008/07/05 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: its less than we spend on lunch
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: so
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: sigh
[2008/07/05 10:14] MT Lundquist: did i crash or did everyine stop talking
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: Can we finish the tour vehicle issue please first
[2008/07/05 10:14] Alexicon Kurka: I was wondering the same
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: a little quiet’s probably good for the RA 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn was waiting for Jamie to finish
[2008/07/05 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/07/05 10:15] You: I believe Alexi has agreed to have a copy of the vehicle prin identified purchased, by an appropriate executive person, as soon as Prin identifies it.
[2008/07/05 10:15] You: Gwyn did I hear you say that’s unaccceptable?
[2008/07/05 10:15] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/07/05 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: this is absurd… this was said six months ago in the last RA session
[2008/07/05 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: this is totally unacceptable
[2008/07/05 10:15] You: well we will get to yotu motion to impeach in a sec 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: my move to empeach stands
[2008/07/05 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jamie
[2008/07/05 10:15] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/05 10:16] You: Gwyn’s got the floor
[2008/07/05 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, I tend to agree with Prin on this
[2008/07/05 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: this happened six months ago, and he should not have to ask now what the thing is even
[2008/07/05 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: WHY did we take SIX months for that?!
[2008/07/05 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: great move for you politically gwyen
[2008/07/05 10:16] You: Alex? question for you
[2008/07/05 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry, Alex, but… can you provide us with a reasonable explanation why this wasn’t done months ago?
[2008/07/05 10:16] You: (Gwyn’s, not mine)
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s also the RA’s duty to figure out why things are not working, so my question stands.
[2008/07/05 10:17] You: …
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And depending on the answer I might second Prin’s motion as well 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:17] Alexicon Kurka: because the Princess did not react sevral times to my request for a transfearable version and nobody could think of a better solution for the ownership/use
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH.
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we’re getting somewhere 😀
[2008/07/05 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: that is LIE
[2008/07/05 10:17] You: So there’s disdagreement. Noted.
[2008/07/05 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: when six months ago was i not in world allt he time
[2008/07/05 10:18] You: Aleix is there any obstacle *now* to that probelm of who owns?
[2008/07/05 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: read the debates ..r ead my commsiion meetings on teh guided tour
[2008/07/05 10:18] Alexicon Kurka: did you even take contact with the creator asking him/her for a version suited for us?
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: no one told me it wasnt suited til five months after the fact
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: you didnt mention that til we called you infront of the RA
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: about it
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a red herring you have made up
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and its a new issue
[2008/07/05 10:19] Alexicon Kurka: we used to have long talks six months ago thePrincess
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and the RA approved it ffs..
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: yes and you never gave me the meony then too
[2008/07/05 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, there is a slight detail here… I’m not sure it’s Prin’s ‘duty’ to track down these details anyway… that’s why we have an executive
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked and asked
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gwyeneth
[2008/07/05 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m just trying to *understand* the root of the problem
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane maybe
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: if she wont give him the money
[2008/07/05 10:20] Alexicon Kurka: I do not have any details of the gadget anyway
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: why do YOU ?
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: it was passed by the RA and approved as a budget item
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: its NOT up to you
[2008/07/05 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean hmm let me give another silly example. Suppose that we decided today to move all of the CDS into There.com or Kaneva. It’s not up to the RA members to deal with the change, we might not be technical enough for that; that’s why we have an Executive who will handle those things
[2008/07/05 10:21] Alexicon Kurka: I was asked to start the IP contracts and a consistend policie on CDS assets
[2008/07/05 10:21] You: .. while we’re wandering a bit on this agenda, budget control is a *key* issue for the RA, so I think we’re using our time entirely properly … ah good point Alex. What came of that?
[2008/07/05 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s a reasonable request to get, Alex, but how does it interfere with the issue we’re discussing?
[2008/07/05 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and lets bring up the christmas party too
[2008/07/05 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and the other event i was to be reimbursed for
[2008/07/05 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that crhistmas party not transfer?
[2008/07/05 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: was the band supposed be transfer
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: wheres the montey for that.. OH YOU wanted money from CDS
[2008/07/05 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: there has been a lot of chat about assets bought in the past and not been availablke to cds
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: but you didnt want anyone else to get any.. like we are taking them
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah and you wanted to PAID to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: so you are pod that didnt happen and taking it out on all of us
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: pod
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: means.. pissed off
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ‘d
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: angry
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean pod means angry
[2008/07/05 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m not very happy either!
[2008/07/05 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s *July*
[2008/07/05 10:23] Alexicon Kurka: it was not clear to me that I should check the details, but in this case I should have the details of the gadget anyway
[2008/07/05 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Christmas party was… December, usually they are in December?
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and what on earth is your reson fro me not getting reimbursed for the crhirsmas party and the snow melt
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: tell me these too
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: snow melt was transfer
[2008/07/05 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn actually seconds Prin’s question
[2008/07/05 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: there was no reimbushment agreement about the christmas party
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: you tried to finagle a way to get paid to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: it was your initiative
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: there was TOO
[2008/07/05 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m pretty sure it was a RA-sponsored event…
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and so the snow melt
[2008/07/05 10:24] You: so hm – at some point I would like this to resolve as a proposal for action from someone – but as Alexi is here and available for questions, that seems to be helpful
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the sense that we’ve approved a budget for it, right?
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jamie
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we have events approved.. like 400k its measley but i didnt even get that
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something is clearly wrong in the whole process
[2008/07/05 10:25] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to figure out what’s wrong and move a motion to fix it
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: and ROSE asked me to pay for the christmas party.. it was 10k of OUR money
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye. And that’s not correct.
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: we did it per the PIO
[2008/07/05 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: Rose is not a part of the exec
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: but we only wanted the 400l
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: well it was approved by the RA
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was indeed.
[2008/07/05 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: long after your party that was approved by the RA
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree that Rose might NOT have had the right to interfere or make comments,
[2008/07/05 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: we cannot pay back
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: you werent even in office
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: lol………!!!!
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that doesn’t change anything.
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: its NOT YOUR MONEY
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, the “we” is the CDs.
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s OUR money
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: you are mad we wouldnt pay you for your precious time to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: thats what you wanted
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we empeach
[2008/07/05 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I don’t know if that’s right, Prin, that’s just a wild accusation. The facts are, however, that nobody is being reimbursed for approved expenses, which is not correct.
[2008/07/05 10:27] Soro Dagostino: Excuse me? Aren’t there three motions on the floor now?
[2008/07/05 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And new things get approved, but ‘technicalities’ prevent them to be bought.
[2008/07/05 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: has ANYTHING been paid for or reimbursed other that your own things alexicon.. yours and arrias?
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: BELLS has not been reimbursed or paid either
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: she spent a lot on the ball.. NOTHING
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: she was paid back nothing yet
[2008/07/05 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: I have got 0L from the cds since I am chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the RA’s work is being questioned: we approve budgets, we approve events, we approve reimbursements… but nobody gets paid
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: her own money
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: NO ONE
[2008/07/05 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alex, the Chancellor is an unpaid position
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: but he wanted his money for what he does.
[2008/07/05 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (as is the RA!)
[2008/07/05 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: I find it extremely inappropriate the way you express yourself tP
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: so what?
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care what you find inappropriate thats how i express myself
[2008/07/05 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: [10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: has ANYTHING been paid for or reimbursed other that your own things alexicon.. yours and arrias?
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: red herring
[2008/07/05 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, prin, I’d also request that you stopped claiming things about Alex that you don’t know if they’re right or not 🙂 It becomes just personal attacks and nothing more
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: wella nswer this then
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked a question
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: has ANTYING been reimbursed
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: Bells hasnt been
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: mine hasnt
[2008/07/05 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, I wish to know an answer to that too.
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: is it personal against us ..
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: or universal
[2008/07/05 10:30] Alexicon Kurka: there has been little expenses
[2008/07/05 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what?
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what does that mean
[2008/07/05 10:30] Alexicon Kurka: it’s all in the reports of Sudane
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: bells wasnt little
[2008/07/05 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know if that doesn’t make things worse 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what did you reimburse bells ?
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: she sent you notecards with epxpenses
[2008/07/05 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what is the criteria then to pay some people, and not others?
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: did you pay her back
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who have you chosen to reimburse
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we impeach
[2008/07/05 10:31] MT Lundquist: Alex has anyone been reembursed?
[2008/07/05 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: I never recieved expenses statements from Bells
[2008/07/05 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont belive that
[2008/07/05 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And from Prin?
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i have asked on the forum even cos you didnt answer me
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and in RA
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and in public
[2008/07/05 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: we have been discussing the tour thing with the Princess for at least a month
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and notecard
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: 2 4
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: 5 6
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: one month .. my ass
[2008/07/05 10:32] Alexicon Kurka: did you either IMed the creator yourself, or did you provide me with his/her data so that I can look for a solution?
[2008/07/05 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, point taken 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ok im gonna get mouthy.. i cant take this anymore
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: there is no provblem.. six months or more ago the RA approved an item to be boought with MONEY
[2008/07/05 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right,
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: its not up to you to make more points on it
[2008/07/05 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s our understanding too.
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: impeach
[2008/07/05 10:33] You: so? on the TOUR is there an act we wish to take as RA? (Other than impeach – that’s NEXT on the agenda) Or do we want to see if Alexi is able to make progress this week, and come back to it?
[2008/07/05 10:33] Alexicon Kurka: I was asked to have a consistent policy on CDS assets
[2008/07/05 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I imagine that was a request from the RA; right?
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: another week!!!!!!
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: why would you beat your head against the wall with this man
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: get it over with
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he wont do anything
[2008/07/05 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we gave him a week last week
[2008/07/05 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d like to know the reasons why, Prin
[2008/07/05 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i should have voted for jamie.
[2008/07/05 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s a point. So…
[2008/07/05 10:34] MT Lundquist: i’ll ask again has anyone been reembursed alex?
[2008/07/05 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, apparently yes, and it’s on Sudane’s report, which I don’t have a link to
[2008/07/05 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so has alexicon reimbursed himself for anything?
[2008/07/05 10:35] Alexicon Kurka: no
[2008/07/05 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand the reason for reimbursing some and not others was that the Executive didn’t receive a notecard with the expenses.
[2008/07/05 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that right?
[2008/07/05 10:35] You: I think Su told us there have been virutaly NO payments this term other than tier, Prin
[2008/07/05 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree jamie
[2008/07/05 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: and i know of four requests
[2008/07/05 10:35] Alexicon Kurka: I have on the contrary invested for several objects and services
[2008/07/05 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘virtually’ is too vague
[2008/07/05 10:35] Alexicon Kurka: without asking for reimbushment
[2008/07/05 10:36] Alexicon Kurka: like the gadget used for the survey
[2008/07/05 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we do all the time!
[2008/07/05 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a point of process.. i dont need 15 dollars
[2008/07/05 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Alex, that’s your privilege and prerrogative; also, you have had items on the budget too which haven’t been bought yet
[2008/07/05 10:36] You: hm gwyn to some extent THAT concern should go to the AUDIT issue I think
[2008/07/05 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, yes, exactly
[2008/07/05 10:36] You: sooo …
[2008/07/05 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ive made 4k since we have been sitting here ffs
[2008/07/05 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my point here is to try to understand WHAT is wrong, and if the RA can pass a motion to fix it.
[2008/07/05 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: its the POINT
[2008/07/05 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But so far I haven’t understood everything. In some cases, it’s process (people not sending notecards with expenses, or those notecards never arriving)
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In other cases, it seems conflicting demands: on one hand the RA approves things to be bought; on the other it requires that these things are checked and controlled for correct permissions or something
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in some cases I haven’t figured out yet what failed.
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, for point one… notecards with expenses not arriving… we need to change the procedures somehow
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that the RA can make an audit too
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the “conflicting demands” issue I have way more problems, since we don’t know ALL demands that have been contardictory!… we’re just finding out some cases
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And others I don’t understand anything 🙁
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn is not so clever
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So perhaps we can review all cases we know about?…
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s start with the Christmas party.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So allegedly Bells never sent a notecard with expenses, is taht so, Alex?
[2008/07/05 10:40] Alexicon Kurka: hehe
[2008/07/05 10:40] Alexicon Kurka: no
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s request Bells to send it again.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And see if it arrives.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what happens afterwards 😉
[2008/07/05 10:40] You: I want us to deal with Prin’s audit motion and impeach motion but so far — first — we’re having Q&A time, which I assume all members wish to continue for a bit.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Alexicon Kurka: and I have talked to her from time to time, she didnt say anything about it
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next… Prin, were there more expenses for teh Christmas party?
[2008/07/05 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for taking time, jamie, but I feel that if we can figure it *all* out, this might never happen again!
[2008/07/05 10:41] Alexicon Kurka: but there was no budget for the christmas party
[2008/07/05 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/05 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: there are vent bugets
[2008/07/05 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: event
[2008/07/05 10:41] MT Lundquist: brb
[2008/07/05 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: it was budgetted
[2008/07/05 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand that there are event budgets indeed, eg L$5k/month or so
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: thats new
[2008/07/05 10:42] Alexicon Kurka: this was decided after the Christmas party
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: then it was only 400l
[2008/07/05 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 400! oh
[2008/07/05 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but it was bugetd before
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and then we raised it after
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but i should have gotten my 400l
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: since i spent 10k..
[2008/07/05 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/07/05 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you sent a note of expenses to the Chancellor too, Prin?
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked for 400l and told him the band etc.. was 10k
[2008/07/05 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you did receive the notecard, Alex?
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: live music …
[2008/07/05 10:43] Alexicon Kurka: no notecrd
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and the snow melt.. well, i was there
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: does the constitution say a notecard is due
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: or some rules.. or do you just make that up
[2008/07/05 10:44] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/07/05 10:44] Alexicon Kurka: I also made expenses for the snow melt, as Naftali did too thePrincess
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: right! and i padi the band 7k for the first one
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: so if you refuse me the 400l ok .. the first noe you didnt do anything
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: the first snow melt i did it all alexicon
[2008/07/05 10:45] You: sooo?
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i got a tip from someone… one
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care, its the POINT
[2008/07/05 10:45] You: Given the time I would like to see if in 2 minutes we want to come to a proposed action, hm?
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i have money its the point
[2008/07/05 10:46] Soro Dagostino: It has been interesting, RL calls.
[2008/07/05 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: lucky dog
[2008/07/05 10:46] Jamie Palisades looks over to the empty seat with a Llewelyn shaped imprint on it
[2008/07/05 10:46] You: Ta Soro
[2008/07/05 10:46] MT Lundquist: did she crash or leave
[2008/07/05 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: she said she had to go at 1030
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: OK – I have heard no proposals for an action by the RA on the reimb generally – but I have heard Alexi say he’d get the tour purchased as soon as Prin identifies it
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: no quorum
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: and yes I think she timed out
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: agrred Prin
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I IDENTIFIED IT SIX MONTH AGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: SEARCH GUIDED TOUR
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: May I suggest we pick up the pending motions next week?
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: I know you did. None of us are happy about the poor communictaion and lack of resolution here
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I MOVE WE EMPEACH ALEXICON NEXT WEEK
[2008/07/05 10:47] Alexicon Kurka: I have all the LMs of the tours we have visited thePrincess
[2008/07/05 10:48] Alexicon Kurka: but not hte one you have chosen
[2008/07/05 10:48] You: I need to go look amd see what that takes, and will imnform all partuies.
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: THE RA APPROVED ONE
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: I DIDNT CHOOSE IT… THE RA DID
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: IT SNOT MINE..I ONLY LED THE COMMITTEEE
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: if you own it im sure it will all be fine
[2008/07/05 10:49] MT Lundquist: wb gwyn
[2008/07/05 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[2008/07/05 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: to impeach we just vote
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: and I apoligize to you all for a sort of “free form” meeting but I think this issue was in fact the most impoprtant one. What I plan to do is talk to each of Su, Alex and Prin about BOTH the tour AND the other motions and see if we can get to some kind of orderly resolution.
[2008/07/05 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: cos it takes a majority
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: not sure about that prin
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: there’s a special law for impeachment
[2008/07/05 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: i am
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: Gwyn you are our constitution expert 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:50] You: and I myself must leave in 10 mins
[2008/07/05 10:50] You: I suggest if Prin wants to pursue impeachment we do that next week, not try it now
[2008/07/05 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, there is a “removal from office” and an impeachment
[2008/07/05 10:50] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/05 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to check up on the difference
[2008/07/05 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i guess i can just leave
[2008/07/05 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe thats easier
[2008/07/05 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I have 10 minutes for that? hehe
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we impeach or remove from office which ever is faster
[2008/07/05 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably removal, impeachment goes through the SC
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: remove
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we remove
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: for being totally and completely incompetent
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: not to mention wanted to get paid
[2008/07/05 10:51] You: 🙂 ..I note we have closed the reimbusements/tour issue for now, and have a motion on audit pending.
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely want an audit
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: not me.. he wanted to get paid to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we might figure out from it,
[2008/07/05 10:52] You: Prin wants to take up her impeachment motion – this is an agenda amendment. Any objection to her request that we do so?
[2008/07/05 10:52] MT Lundquist: none
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, no objections, but I wish just to check up on the procedures
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: hes got secondary gain
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: mt does
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly the wiki seems to be down 🙁
[2008/07/05 10:52] MT Lundquist: what?
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: ok just vote to remove from office
[2008/07/05 10:53] You: 🙂 the constitution is unavailable, says gwyn
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: let the SC tell us we did it wrong
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: vote
[2008/07/05 10:53] You: I am not confident we can do this so quickly, so personally would vote against it today
[2008/07/05 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, well, I would also not vote it today, for one reason only â€”
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: we can too
[2008/07/05 10:53] Alexicon Kurka: is the version on neufreistd nit correct?
[2008/07/05 10:53] You: I agree you can
[2008/07/05 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it might be that Alex’s ‘inaction’ comes simply from unexisting/conflicting procedures
[2008/07/05 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alex, well not quite
[2008/07/05 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: sigh.. dnate didnt have a problem
[2008/07/05 10:54] You: Prin has moved to remove Alexi from office. I note we’re a little short of being certain about the procedure, but the intent seems clear enough. Is there a second?
[2008/07/05 10:55] Jamie Palisades listens for a second – or not
[2008/07/05 10:55] You: Motion dies for lack of second then
[2008/07/05 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “7. The Chancellor may be removed from office prior to the expiration of the term of office by at least a two thirds vote of the Representative Assembly. ”
[2008/07/05 10:56] You: I think we should take up the audit motion – which ahas been amended – but I think we should do this as our first item next week
[2008/07/05 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we don’t have a quorum for that vote to pass anyway
[2008/07/05 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 10:56] You: ah thx Gwyn – what I was concerend about – requires 5
[2008/07/05 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes it does
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll set the Chancellor a challenge 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To take a look at all requests for money that have been made and never paid,
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for each one,
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: list why it wasn’t paid
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eg: Bells & prin â€” no notecard received
[2008/07/05 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: mizou too i think
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tourist guide, conflicting requests regarding ownership
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good one
[2008/07/05 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we’ll check this out with the audit to be done on the Treasury,
[2008/07/05 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: ownership? lol who is he to make an issue of that
[2008/07/05 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and see if the reasons for not paying have any plausible excuse
[2008/07/05 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, Prin, so I wish to ask 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor is, indeed, the manager (on behalf of the CDS) of land and content
[2008/07/05 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are obviously rules for that
[2008/07/05 10:59] You: Mindful of the time, if Gwyn’s done, I suggest we adjourn for today, and plan to do some one on one followup
[2008/07/05 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (b) to expend monies held by the Office of the Chancellor of Neufreistadt-CDS for the administration and management of public facilities (including, but not limited to, roadways, signage, public buildings, public events and similar), and to discharge any other duties or powers of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly;
[2008/07/05 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (one of the powers of the Chancellor)
[2008/07/05 11:01] You: Let me excuse myself with apologies 🙂 and thanks everyoine for working to sort out this long tangle of tough issues
[2008/07/05 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it seems to be a critical one, jamie
[2008/07/05 11:01] MT Lundquist: bye jamie
[2008/07/05 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: slkdjf;waste f ime
[2008/07/05 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: a waste of time
[2008/07/05 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: again
[2008/07/05 11:01] You: perhaps Prin – we’ll see. Thank you for coming, Alexi
[2008/07/05 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it wasn’t a waste, Prin, I think we never addressed this “properly”. We just make demands and get furious because the demands are never complied with,
[2008/07/05 11:01] Alexicon Kurka: yes I have top leave too, have a nice weekend. Please tP provide me or Jammie with the details of the tour.
[2008/07/05 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we never understand *why*
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And let’s ask Mizou, Bells, and Prin to send the notecards again
[2008/07/05 11:02] MT Lundquist: bye alex
[2008/07/05 11:02] Alexicon Kurka: thanks for the constructuive thought Gwyn
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s clear that a notecard-based system is NOT going to work
[2008/07/05 11:02] You: on the other hand gwyn – we have given no law that constraints the turn around time either – smile
[2008/07/05 11:02] You: ta for now
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you 🙂
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have a lovely weekend!
[2008/07/05 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: and you
[2008/07/05 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks :)) you too

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: July 12, 2008

Agenda

1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 0900 – 09h15)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans. Note RA election schedule.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
(None.)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS
2. Review of open commissions (20 mins: 09h20 – 09h40)
— ethics & conflicts
— statutory review / revision
— corporate entity review
— any other?
3. Sim 4 & general master plan: update (10 mins: 09h40 – 09h50)
NEW ITEMS
4. Other?
5. Open Discussion (10 mins.: 09h50-10h00)
Adjournment: 10h00

Transcript

====
Transcript of 12 July 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====

[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know where proust is even
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: You’ll have to read the book 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: someone can read it to me
[2008/07/12 9:16] You: Folks, we are quorate, shall we get started? 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: may i have the link so i can sue you
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: Famous French novelist
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: I’ll ask a 3d time – who’s tried Lively?
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir jamie
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: wtf is LIvely
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: Oops
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: I have tried Lively
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: agenda as proposed is here: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1951
[2008/07/12 9:17] MT Lundquist: is this like a knock knock joke
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: and it’s a boring one, grin
[2008/07/12 9:17] Danton Sideways: who’s there?
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: it is Google’s new virtual world
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: me
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: thats for coming – this *might* be a short meeting
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: is it any good
[2008/07/12 9:17] Danton Sideways: laggy
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: I find it quite difficult to know how it works–
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: why will it be short.. we need to impeach the emporer
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: (there is a great blog review of Lively on Slashdot)
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: but it is very new
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has a bill
[2008/07/12 9:17] Danton Sideways: 😀
[2008/07/12 9:18] You: Ah good 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:18] Sonja Strom: yes, let’s tear down that Schloss!
[2008/07/12 9:18] MT Lundquist: news to me
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: he will discuss it for you…
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: mt the bill about investments
[2008/07/12 9:18] MT Lundquist: ok well not written but i can discuss
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and i still want to impeach alexicon
[2008/07/12 9:18] You: OK then 🙂 let’s get the preliminarties out of the way
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you dear
—-
[2008/07/12 9:19] You: 1a – please indicate your assent to the transcript by saying “I assent” (or leaving if you don’t like being recorded 🙂 ) . I assent.
[2008/07/12 9:19] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/07/12 9:19] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i desent
[2008/07/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: assend
—-
[2008/07/12 9:19] You: 1b – agenda – I had just planned that we look at the pending commisions that have no delivered – and note the election schedule for the incoming RA. Prin you mentioned two other items: mor eon inpeachment? and something on investments?
[2008/07/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: what ever happened to the election reform committee
[2008/07/12 9:20] Bells Semyorka: i assent
[2008/07/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and where is the 4ths im
[2008/07/12 9:20] You: prin those are two godo Qs – and ON the agendaalready 🙂 — Is the “investment” thing something we can at least have a quick intro about MT?
[2008/07/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: tes
[2008/07/12 9:21] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/07/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: something nucare has been discussing for a while
[2008/07/12 9:21] MT Lundquist: yes just say when
[2008/07/12 9:21] Danton Sideways: Jamie’s spelling is worse than usual
[2008/07/12 9:21] You: so we add “investment legislation proposal” as a brief discussion item after agenda item 2 maybe?
[2008/07/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: dont upset him i dont wanna dress like a nun today
[2008/07/12 9:22] Danton Sideways: Hi Gwyn
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: gwennies here
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks Prin!
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: did you tell prok i said to f off
[2008/07/12 9:22] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no, prin lol
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you never do anything i tell you
[2008/07/12 9:22] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prok is a *friend*
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/12 9:22] You: OK, so, no other adds to the agenda, hmn?
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah so are we ::))
[2008/07/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen wants to probably
[2008/07/12 9:23] You: 🙂
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[2008/07/12 9:23] You: 1c
[2008/07/12 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well not really…
[2008/07/12 9:23] You: Anyone else who plans to speak today other than RA members? Let uis know now and we’ll reserve time.
[2008/07/12 9:23] Jamie Palisades looks around … ?
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: Nope then 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i look?
—-
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: 1d
[2008/07/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ok
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: wonderful 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: Routine notice: Please send me any corrections to the posted transcripts.
[2008/07/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you very much
[2008/07/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i am already sad..i will miss harrassing you jamie
[2008/07/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: can i have your home no. rl?
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: And I like the new profile pic, Prin, but I *hope* you do not throw away that Garbo shot with the Jackie O shades
[2008/07/12 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ill send you your very own
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: that one was just “you” somehow, grin
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: cool
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[2008/07/12 9:25] You: 1e
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: schedule
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: Note please the following:
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 1. Scheduled RA meetings on 19 and 26 July, same time, 9 am SLT
[2008/07/12 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 2. RA elections open today
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 3. Ballot closes on the 19th
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 4. As posted, Arria (who is PIO but a candidate) asked me to organize a debate
[2008/07/12 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: is jon running it?
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: and does he have a gag order if not we need to give him one
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: officially
[2008/07/12 9:27] You: (I think so yes Prin he made the machines again from what I hear)
[2008/07/12 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The voting booths? yes
[2008/07/12 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And he know his duty, Prin
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: hes seeing the votes come in
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen he didnt follow that laswt time.. dont make me go there
[2008/07/12 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll use duct tape this time 😀
[2008/07/12 9:27] You: Debate will be either Thursday or Saturday – Not sure I get enough responses to be certain that all factions could attend, to do it this weekend
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: also on his mouth?
[2008/07/12 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2008/07/12 9:28] You: (But no staring at Bells, she answered right away, as did several others)
[2008/07/12 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: bells is wonderful
[2008/07/12 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What time did you suggest, jamie?
[2008/07/12 9:28] You: Duct tape? (Just remember the air holes – programmers who give us lots of free expert help need to breathe, too, hmn?)
[2008/07/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: do you know how many pictures of myself i have .. ?? still looking jamie
[2008/07/12 9:29] You: Gwyn, I suggested SLT morning time on Thurs or Saturday
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, like 10 or 11 am?
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[2008/07/12 9:29] You: that too late for EU?
[2008/07/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: saturday i think is better
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… too early! haha
[2008/07/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and americans are at work on tursday
[2008/07/12 9:29] You: afrankly if it;s Satuday it;s the last poll day, a little futile
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most Europeans should be as well 😀
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, jamie
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who needs debates the election is a joke
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should have been today 😉
[2008/07/12 9:30] You: well I raised it here to get some more feedback, smile
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: three factions
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/12 9:30] You: do you think we should just go for tomorrow?
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: how about an informal one tomorrow
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah!
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie & Prin: yes!
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: catch and catch can
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d certainly love that!
[2008/07/12 9:30] You: Sonja, frankly, I did not get much of a reaction from DPU on times, unless I missed something
[2008/07/12 9:30] MT Lundquist: do tommorrow
[2008/07/12 9:31] You: we could indeed do tomorrow
[2008/07/12 9:31] You: I will put out some messages after this meeting, see if we can get bits – I know that Bells is rep’ing NuCare and can make it,.
[2008/07/12 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we dont even have a citizen list
[2008/07/12 9:32] You: Hm. I think Justice is out tmrw – Gwyn I will contact you to see if we can confirm a CSDF participant, and Sonja, get your help with DPU, please
[2008/07/12 9:32] You: and Prin, I have seen one
[2008/07/12 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have one that would help a little
[2008/07/12 9:33] You: (I starting asking, few day ago, to make sure SC was remembering to have voting booths setup, smile)
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: someone needs to care
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i think CDS is at an all time apathetic high
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it just me
[2008/07/12 9:33] You: Hm – can the voting roll be public? I don’t know offhand but would *think* so. Will ask those who know.
[2008/07/12 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, ok
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: it should be public
[2008/07/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane is supposed to be publishing it
[2008/07/12 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: monthly i think
[2008/07/12 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
[2008/07/12 9:34] You: I agree. There were some forum posts about this too. We rely on factions for CDS politcs, (small ironic smile) and many of them seem moribund 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what does that mean?
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: dead
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: we arent!
[2008/07/12 9:35] You: I have not seen many platforms this time for example – but maybe that’s partially because there are only 7 standing for 7 seats?
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: six
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: six for seven seats.. says a lot
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: bromo dropped
[2008/07/12 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that what was meant is that the factions were not always available for public debate (either on the forums or in-world)
[2008/07/12 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: fewer candidates than seats
[2008/07/12 9:36] You: this is not really on agenda but seemed worth the chatt – maybe have exhausted it for now though
[2008/07/12 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: now thats a fine statement
[2008/07/12 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we needed that sim .. but sudane didnt want it so she killed it
[2008/07/12 9:36] You: did he? Missed that pot – wellanyway : the way we work, factions still care about the vote bcause their relative ranking may determine who gets LRA, right?
[2008/07/12 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: he did in my opinion
[2008/07/12 9:37] You: (for now, smile)
[2008/07/12 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: moving on
[2008/07/12 9:37] You: I appreciate the input on the debates a LOT, and WILL try for tomorrow then
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[2008/07/12 9:37] You: 1f
[2008/07/12 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: i have to go shopping then
[2008/07/12 9:38] You: any agenda consent items? I have none
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[2008/07/12 9:39] You: then we have item 2 – quick survey of the outstanding commissions — then added items 2 1/2 (investment bill) and 2 3/4 (any more motions by Prin on Alexi and reimbursements)
[2008/07/12 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (quick interruption: the citizen list is here: http://tospitimou.com/cds/list.php )
[2008/07/12 9:39] You: so
[2008/07/12 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[2008/07/12 9:39] You: let’s do those commissions, see if our remaining work’s going to be finished up well 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* yes
[2008/07/12 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn blames herself again
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[2008/07/12 9:40] You: Elections first. Let me note what I do know
[2008/07/12 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/07/12 9:40] You: 1. We had one Beathan I *think* chaired it.
[2008/07/12 9:41] You: 2. It was going to report something out in time to affect this current election nad did not.
[2008/07/12 9:42] You: (We’d have needed to enact anything a month or so ago to have it govern this election, I thnk.)
[2008/07/12 9:42] You: 3. Finally, we also had a perfectly good citizen’s bill from Patroklus Murakami on election reform
[2008/07/12 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi chokes
[2008/07/12 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: would you prefer fried chicken legs or wings for dinner?……100 percent of the pop likes fried chicken for dinner in a pp poll
[2008/07/12 9:44] You: we didn’t bring it to a debate or vote here yet – I have no view on it really – but to be fair, RA’ schedule and Pat’s did not bring us together in time to consider it for THIS election
[2008/07/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: too bad
[2008/07/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and may i say that a fellow faction not represented here is campaigning on a platform that we move too quickly
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we do move too quickly?!
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/07/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: that the cds govt moves too fast
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In what universe might that be? 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to slow down , per my understanding of rubyiat but ask him
[2008/07/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: he hasnt visited cds from what i can tell lately.. please ask hm what he means though… i might have misunderstood
[2008/07/12 9:47] You: hm 🙂 I think Sonja and Rubaiyat are in the same faction, no?
[2008/07/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i forgot
[2008/07/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja do you know what he means that we are too fast. so should i say : slow govt is good govt
[2008/07/12 9:47] Sonja Strom: I do not know.
[2008/07/12 9:48] You: so as to the election commission, smile, I will ask Pat again i he wishes to bring it no, but my sense is that election reform likely will wait for the next RA
[2008/07/12 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: he said that in his platform
[2008/07/12 9:48] You: Prin? Can we hold off on the campaign stuff and talk about the commissions for now?
[2008/07/12 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: sure
[2008/07/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: hi fem.. assent
[2008/07/12 9:49] Feminist Expedition: i assent
[2008/07/12 9:49] You: OK. Anything else on elections ? Anyone want to suggest we press on with somethign in July? If not let’s move on
[2008/07/12 9:50] You: (Hi Femi, thanks)
[2008/07/12 9:50] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:50] MT Lundquist: hi fem
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[2008/07/12 9:50] You: Next commission
[2008/07/12 9:52] You: Gwyn? The unnamed “ethics & miscellany” group – I recall that some of us had bills 🙂 but we sent it to you for a bit, which time has I think expired?
[2008/07/12 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, I know 😛
[2008/07/12 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s all my fault really
[2008/07/12 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I’m too optimistic about having time during the week
[2008/07/12 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either we can find some time for that on the weekend, or I’m afraid I won’t be able to help on that
[2008/07/12 9:53] You: well let me ask a practical question
[2008/07/12 9:54] You: This RA will only have a few more chances to act
[2008/07/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: when are we going to impeach alexicon
[2008/07/12 9:54] You: hm – well when you have the right number of votes and it’s on the agenda 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: shall we
[2008/07/12 9:55] You: staying with the agenda for the moment:)
[2008/07/12 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ok its awfully slow
[2008/07/12 9:55] You: As to the ‘ethics’ commisson, it mostly was about conflicts of interest
[2008/07/12 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: and did we ever vote on that bill?
[2008/07/12 9:56] You: so
[2008/07/12 9:56] You: does anyone plan to try to bring a bill on that to the RA BEFORE our term is up?
[2008/07/12 9:57] You: We did not, Prin, it was all referred to a commission which has not met
[2008/07/12 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 😛
[2008/07/12 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as said, I do apologise
[2008/07/12 9:58] MT Lundquist: web love
[2008/07/12 9:59] You: for now, let’s keep on the positive side — it is my view that we are unlikely to get legislation about this to the table for action in the next 2 weeks
[2008/07/12 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh I agree
[2008/07/12 10:00] You: and while I regret that, I do NOT regard it as a urgent sort of issue 🙂 unlike two others I will mention in a few moments
[2008/07/12 10:00] You: so next commission 🙂
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[2008/07/12 10:01] You: Statutory revision
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Isn’t that the same one? 😀
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: here I am happy to say that they DID deliver
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and what are the results?
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: No 🙂 this is Brian’s older project
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh ok
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: to weed out and identify expired statutes
[2008/07/12 10:02] You: and he has posted results
[2008/07/12 10:02] You: .. and I would very much like …
[2008/07/12 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to review them and move to approve? 😀
[2008/07/12 10:02] You: .. us to turn over a nice, cleaner slate to the next RA. So …
[2008/07/12 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be nice 😀
[2008/07/12 10:03] You: I plan to add a few bits of enacting text to the already-posted material …
[2008/07/12 10:03] You: .. and bring it for approval next week.
[2008/07/12 10:04] You: Frankly I do not think there is much of controversy tehre
[2008/07/12 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
[2008/07/12 10:04] You: it’s just a big, long-overdue clean up job
[2008/07/12 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees
—-
[2008/07/12 10:04] You: now – another commission
[2008/07/12 10:05] You: which the RA gave to me to chair 1 or 2 meetings ago, and has an August reporting date
[2008/07/12 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
[2008/07/12 10:05] You: is the question of corporate entities
[2008/07/12 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha!
[2008/07/12 10:05] You: which Prin and Beathan and others have raised from time to time
[2008/07/12 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: According to the old CDS incorporation act?
[2008/07/12 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi is very interested
[2008/07/12 10:06] You: so I’m glad we can take in on finally 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:06] You: Gwyn we have a free hand to examine that as among the solutions grin
[2008/07/12 10:06] You: so be advised …
[2008/07/12 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: I plan to hold afirst meeting next Saturday after RA
[2008/07/12 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah which is always hard for me
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: and will post some material for discussion before then, smile
[2008/07/12 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn cries
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: eh?
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: well 🙂 we can meet more than once and shan’t be done right away
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: now
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: finally
[2008/07/12 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (all right)
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[2008/07/12 10:08] You: 🙂 no chat about commissions would be complete in my mind without noting
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: that we had two very SUCCESSFUL ones
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: MT’s commerce work and Beathan’s PDP development work
[2008/07/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/07/12 10:09] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:09] MT Lundquist: thanks to all who took part
[2008/07/12 10:09] You: and I expect CDS will be significantly improved by the bills that we’ve adopted based on their good work
[2008/07/12 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds as well
[2008/07/12 10:09] You: and thre’s more to do there, too, so we should keep an eye on their implementation, smile
[2008/07/12 10:10] You: I do have on final comment about commissions
[2008/07/12 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: as well as the guided tour implementation
[2008/07/12 10:10] MT Lundquist: there is a cds chamber of commerce group now
[2008/07/12 10:10] MT Lundquist: i suggest we invite all cds traders to it
[2008/07/12 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: who is leading it? where do we go?
[2008/07/12 10:10] MT Lundquist: thats for the chamber to decide at its first meeting i guess
[2008/07/12 10:10] Jamie Palisades holds up to listen
[2008/07/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: when do they meet?
[2008/07/12 10:11] You: MT who is organizing that?
[2008/07/12 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that chamber already chartered?
[2008/07/12 10:11] MT Lundquist: well i can initially
[2008/07/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/12 10:11] You: Glad to hear it, but needs some kind of publuc notice etc.
[2008/07/12 10:11] MT Lundquist: then i guess it will have its own life
[2008/07/12 10:11] You: Gwyn we have approved it in the bill, but it need to get kicked off
[2008/07/12 10:12] You: hm
[2008/07/12 10:12] You: MT, let me confer with you this week informally to take a few small steps to make sure it has its proper first meeting, a notice, etc etc
[2008/07/12 10:12] You: (sorry typos galore)
[2008/07/12 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/07/12 10:13] MT Lundquist: ok jamie
[2008/07/12 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/12 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well yes, that sounds very reasonable
[2008/07/12 10:14] You: let’s get it up and running before our term’s over, grin – just in case anyone raises the issue, I assume the CofC will elect its own officers, but can we agree here to ask M T as the bill’s author to act as its convenor?
[2008/07/12 10:14] MT Lundquist: happy to do that initially
[2008/07/12 10:14] Danton Sideways: Was it the obligation to have to some level of visitor count that was finally decided upon?
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/07/12 10:15] You: excellent 🙂 any other members with thoughts about commissions? I have one more, but have been talking too much 😀
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: or rather yes decided
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: no to count
[2008/07/12 10:15] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: your place is safe danton
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: but it always was
[2008/07/12 10:15] Danton Sideways: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:17] You: so 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its about helping ppl not stealing
[2008/07/12 10:18] You: No more comments on commissions then?
[2008/07/12 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/07/12 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn can only add her congratulations on the good work done by some of the comissions, and blame herself for the bad work done on others 🙁
—-
[2008/07/12 10:18] You: then one last word from me 🙂 and thx for your patience
[2008/07/12 10:19] You: *if* I can deliver on time on the one I have now (corporate) … it is my plan to ask the NEW RA to create a commission on CDS environmental concerns. We have a wealth of talent here, rally an unusual opportunity, and even there are some strong possible connections between geology and ecology and our sim development choices.
[2008/07/12 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/12 10:19] You: Just a notice of intent, no action needed at this time.
[2008/07/12 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you know, the CSDF will be happy to second that proposal any time 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:20] You: so much for agenda item 2 then:)
—-
[2008/07/12 10:20] You: we added a 2.5:
[2008/07/12 10:21] You: MT’s notice of ideas about an ‘investments’ bill?
[crash interruption] [2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: as Jamies not back
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: what is the next agenda item
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: ah Jamie
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:30] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:30] You: Sorry, bad crashies
[2008/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye it happens :/
[2008/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the grid went through an upgrade and a downgrade in such a little time, no wonder it’s unstable 😀
[2008/07/12 10:31] You: did I miss anything I need to know, folks? 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we were just discussing MT’s proposed bill
[2008/07/12 10:31] MT Lundquist: i agreed, Jamie, to write a bill for next week proposing to have CDS invest its reserves in a safe account to geneerate interest
[2008/07/12 10:31] You: Ah good
[2008/07/12 10:31] You: not much different than what any trustee would be required to do
[2008/07/12 10:32] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/07/12 10:32] You: so that cover’s item “2 1/2”
—-
[2008/07/12 10:33] You: hm – we were as item #3 going to talk briefly about sim 4 update, but also, Prin, did you have more on the Alexi/reimbursements business? I think we amended that into the agenda now, before #3.
[2008/07/12 10:34] MT Lundquist: you may need to come back to that, think shes on a phone call rl
[2008/07/12 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:34] You: Ok
[2008/07/12 10:34] You: Let’s do 3 then, and come back
—-
[2008/07/12 10:34] You: 🙂 3 may be brief
[2008/07/12 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/12 10:35] You: We noted in our last two meetings that the Chancellor is apparently empowered to authorize the sim purchase himself .. and we have done all the legislating needed to support it.
[2008/07/12 10:35] You: Final land prices for the sim also must be set – but ditto – he can if we do not.
[2008/07/12 10:36] You: SO where we left this was with the Guild plannig to sit down with Alexi and make it happen.
[2008/07/12 10:36] You: We did try to agree on prices ourselves, but …
[2008/07/12 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: humph..
[2008/07/12 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wasn’t there an agreement?
[2008/07/12 10:36] You: there was significant opposition, as I recall, from FlyingRoc and Sonja to the propossed prices offered by the Guild report.
[2008/07/12 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/07/12 10:37] You: So we did not act.
[2008/07/12 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what did the Chancellor decide?
[2008/07/12 10:38] Sonja Strom: I would like to make it clear I was not in opposition, but simply not ready to vote yes due to my colleagues’ concerns not being answered.
[2008/07/12 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i see
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: Fair enough 🙂 where we are now is this: we must either
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: (a) wait for the Chancellor to act or
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: (b) set prices ourselves
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: any views?
[2008/07/12 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: when did they are will he buy the sim
[2008/07/12 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think waiting for the chancelor to act is good.. lets impeach him instead
[2008/07/12 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely was fine with the Guild prices…
[2008/07/12 10:39] MT Lundquist: does anyone have the link?
[2008/07/12 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: another ever long list of reasons to cut him
[2008/07/12 10:39] You: let’s do impeachment as an agenda item after the sim 4 chat 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:40] You: link to what MT?
[2008/07/12 10:40] MT Lundquist: the prices
[2008/07/12 10:40] MT Lundquist: or a notecard
[2008/07/12 10:40] You: ah hang on – looking at old minutes
[2008/07/12 10:42] You: OK here is the RA transcript …
[2008/07/12 10:42] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1908
[2008/07/12 10:42] You: and …
[2008/07/12 10:42] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/07/12 10:43] You: here 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:43] You: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11397
[2008/07/12 10:43] You: That was Sudane’s pricing schedule which the Guild recommended, and we voted on but did not pass, at our meeting on the 7th June.
[2008/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It did not pass?
[2008/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 10:44] You: You can see from the transcript (first URI)
[2008/07/12 10:44] You: it was introduced at 11:29
[2008/07/12 10:44] You: and voted down . hm .
[2008/07/12 10:45] You: 2-2-0 at 11:57
[2008/07/12 10:45] You: there were some people eligible to cast a 7 day ballot but they did not.
[2008/07/12 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn worries if she’s guilty
[2008/07/12 10:45] You: hm. Not in that sense
[2008/07/12 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: you are
[2008/07/12 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: just assume you are always
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/12 10:46] You: On that motion, Gwyneth, you and I voted yes, Sonja and FR voted no, and BV, MT and TPP were absent.
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re right, I was just looking at it now
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2008/07/12 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i was never absent
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a constitutional issue here 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the RA allowed to approve prices (even assuming we did)
[2008/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or only the Chancellor can set them?
[2008/07/12 10:47] You: oh? How so Gwyn? (Noting that we have not acted)
[2008/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so it’s hypothetical anyway
[2008/07/12 10:48] You: Gwyn it’s my take that we can constraint executive acts with legislation if we choose – unless the constitution makes some explicit pieces of chancellor’s powers “hands off” to RA
[2008/07/12 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the old “it’s allowed if it’s not explicitly forbidden” rule.
[2008/07/12 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have a common law system in the CDS; so, yes, you’re right.
[2008/07/12 10:49] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/07/12 10:49] You: is there anything else to do about sim 4 right now, from the RA’s perspecive?
[2008/07/12 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: only i told you so
[2008/07/12 10:50] You: we have a few minutes left – I want us to get to Prin’s other agenda item
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whip the Chancellor until he orders it to be bought?
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard that it would only be bought on August 2,
[2008/07/12 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i think just impeach him works fine
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the “launch party” would be on the last two weeks of AUgust
[2008/07/12 10:50] You: Whatever is August 2? The Ides of Caledon or something?
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie
[2008/07/12 10:50] DivineLolita Demonia: heya 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:50] MT Lundquist: didnt know you were into BDSM Gwyn
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well I’m quoting dates on top of my head
[2008/07/12 10:50] Sonja Strom: hi Divine 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Divine!!!)
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, lol
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: so

[2008/07/12 10:52] You: Prin: you asked us to return to the issue of Alexi and reimbursements
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: let;’s get to that item, hm?
[2008/07/12 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: What I recall is that, at last meeting, he was going to get the tour vehicle info from you and cause it to be purchased. Do I have that right?
[2008/07/12 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: that was my understanding of what he said
[2008/07/12 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: now ask me do i haev it and is it running
[2008/07/12 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…. the only thing *I* know,
[2008/07/12 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: or does anyone have it
[2008/07/12 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that Alex does not want a non-transfer item to be given to any citizen
[2008/07/12 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means that either we find a copyable or transferable item to act as tourist guide,
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or Alex will not allow that.
[2008/07/12 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: he doesnt have that authority
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he sustains his right to boycott that
[2008/07/12 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA approved it
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in two ways
[2008/07/12 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: good then i sustain my right to impeach him
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One, the Chancellor can veto *anything* that comes from the RA
[2008/07/12 10:54] Jamie Palisades listens
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: well not totally gwyen
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two, he has been given strict orders
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that ALL content bought by the CDS
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: he cannot veto a vote that was unanimous
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: you are wrong
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: zn and it was
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is to be delivered to the Content Archivist, one copy
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen you are wrong
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, he can 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *can* override the veto though!
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: no he cant he can only veto the
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: not if the vote was unanimous
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He can veto any bill that affects his
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can then move to override the veto.
[2008/07/12 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s a two step process. The number of original votes is irrelevant.
[2008/07/12 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: the vote for the guided tour was unanimous by the last session of RA
[2008/07/12 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes.
[2008/07/12 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was.
[2008/07/12 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is a process to get that done
[2008/07/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think you are right though i dont think he can veto unanimous votes
[2008/07/12 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m personally unclear about the process, I *thought* the point of having a Chancellor is that *he* would figure out the details of getting a device and installing it, or whatever it takes
[2008/07/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: but not change the vote of the RA
[2008/07/12 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was my understanding, but the Executive does not quite agree….
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well Prin…
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we passed a bill
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: he cannot veto a unanimous vote, only one that is not unanimous
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the number of votes is irrelevant really
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we passed two
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: you are wrong
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That rule is not there!
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i call for the constitution to be read not the authority of you my dear
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: you are NOT the authority of CDS
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so dont spout off like you are
[2008/07/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to see the constitution
[2008/07/12 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Chancellor shall have the power to veto any act of the Representative Assembly, except any bill to remove the Chancellor from office. The Representative Assembly may override a veto with a vote by at least a two-thirds majority.”
[2008/07/12 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So he vetos, we override…. it’s simple
[2008/07/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: imma look myself
[2008/07/12 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure 😀
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: well do we have two thirds here?
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[2008/07/12 11:00] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: this is absurd.. why would he stop this my god it costs 4k
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its a few dollars
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because he has orders
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that all content
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: orders from who?
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: has to be copied and given to the Content Archivist
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: if it were something expensive i can see why
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: so buy two ffs
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I guess he could have TWO
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: its not even 4k its k
[2008/07/12 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes
[2008/07/12 11:01] Danton Sideways: Gotta go everyone, bye
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: it is three K
[2008/07/12 11:01] MT Lundquist: bye danton
[2008/07/12 11:01] You: so, kids, where do we want to go with this? Let’s talk action items. It’s 11 am SLT
[2008/07/12 11:01] Sonja Strom: bye Danton
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: not even four.. but they authorized four to have extras… its three K lindens
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: do you know how much money that is and how much this has HURT CDS
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/07/12 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: for him to make a point when he didnt do anything else this term
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: for 3k lindens
[2008/07/12 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, what you suggest is *more than reasonable*
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: how many usd is that
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: ffs
[2008/07/12 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with approving two copies
[2008/07/12 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or three, or whatever it takes
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: give me a break
[2008/07/12 11:02] MT Lundquist: $10 us
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: impeach his sorry ……….
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: for ten dollars us w ehave cost us so much enhancement of our community
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: people were excited
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: they wanted to do the tour
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: symo made us a vehicle
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we were bonded
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: for ten dollars!
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we spend that on coffee!
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: ok coffe and a crousiant
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: croisannt
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/07/12 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I stand by my words of last week, I dont think that this “blocking” has been reasonable at all
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie is stalling
[2008/07/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we vote to IMPEACH NOW
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand and respect Alex’s argumentation
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but
[2008/07/12 11:04] You: am I ? 🙂 What would you like to do?
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *personally* would expect a Chancellor to come up with solutions,
[2008/07/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: IMPEACH FFS
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not “roadblocks”
[2008/07/12 11:04] You: Ah a motion 🙂 THAT I know how to handle, dear
[2008/07/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: for a point
[2008/07/12 11:05] You: ahem we have a motion. So I will ask for a second, then as it’s 11 am for a 15 minute time extention
[2008/07/12 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, can we add a “request to the Chancellor” before that?
[2008/07/12 11:05] You: does prin’s motion have a second?
[2008/07/12 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not even a bill
[2008/07/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOO
[2008/07/12 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, lol
[2008/07/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its been now a mont since we asked him ffs
[2008/07/12 11:05] You: um and does prin’s skirt have a color chart? (sorry)
[2008/07/12 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I was *trying* to get a compromise
[2008/07/12 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: we compromised too much already
[2008/07/12 11:06] You: so kids 🙂 we are over time for today. We can continue IF there is a SECOND to the motion AND we agree to go on for 15 more minutes.
[2008/07/12 11:06] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/12 11:07] You: Ah there’s half of what I need 🙂 thanks
[2008/07/12 11:07] You: now
[2008/07/12 11:07] Sonja Strom: agree
[2008/07/12 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you very much
[2008/07/12 11:07] You: any objections until continuing until 1120 for now? SLT
[2008/07/12 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: please not me
[2008/07/12 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine
[2008/07/12 11:07] MT Lundquist: i can do 10 mins
[2008/07/12 11:07] MT Lundquist: no more
[2008/07/12 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: no longer than that but thats ok
[2008/07/12 11:08] You: Gwyn, do we have a web-accessible constitution at the moment?
[2008/07/12 11:08] You: I’m not seeing one
[2008/07/12 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: vaguely…
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie
[2008/07/12 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://neufreistadt.info/id25.html
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. vote to impeach
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: and 2.
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: count
[2008/07/12 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: well….
[2008/07/12 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not impeach –” removal from office
[2008/07/12 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: ok fine remove him from office .. as if he ever had one
[2008/07/12 11:09] Jamie Palisades looks at the constitution for a second
[2008/07/12 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as per “7. The Chancellor may be removed from office prior to the expiration of the term of office by at least a two thirds vote of the Representative Assembly.”
[2008/07/12 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gwyen
[2008/07/12 11:10] You: yup
[2008/07/12 11:11] You: 2/3rds of 7 requires 5 votes
[2008/07/12 11:11] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/07/12 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i count five
[2008/07/12 11:12] You: I can tell you that personally I’m willing to consider this, after debate, IF we have the precise cause spelled out, and …
[2008/07/12 11:12] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you read and watch what goes on
[2008/07/12 11:12] ThePrincess Parisi: you need a cause
[2008/07/12 11:12] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/12 11:13] You: .. if we’ve given him adequate notice that this is happening. I think an impeachment without a heads-up would be a bad idea – maybe even something the SC could undo.
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that there is no “precise cause” but an accumulated 6-months of inability to comply with the RA’s requests, Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no, it’s just removal from office, not impeachment
[2008/07/12 11:13] You: Well, Gwyn, that might be your cause right there.
[2008/07/12 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the guided tour alone! do you know what that cost us as sims.
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to vote for impeachment, this would need to be done at the SC level, but we can certainly do that as well
[2008/07/12 11:13] You: Hm, yes, OK, I see the nomenclature, it is a removal.
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in that case, the SC would hold an impeachment court
[2008/07/12 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: removal
[2008/07/12 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we have waited too long!
[2008/07/12 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: An impeachment, in my view, would mean that Alex was maliciously trying to counter our requests and damaging/hurting the citizens directly
[2008/07/12 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just see a certain hmmmm let’s say “slowness” in compliance 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i can make a case for that too
[2008/07/12 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: More than enough to warrant a removal from office,
[2008/07/12 11:14] You: How would the rest of you feel about this alternative:
[2008/07/12 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I don’t see it as being “malicious”
[2008/07/12 11:15] You: We adopt a resolution this week indicating that if by next Saturday we do not have (list of thigns) (will type that up next), we plan to remove him from office at that meeting?
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: he spent his first month trying to get PAID to be chancelloor
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we already did that
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie we did that the past two weeks
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: get on the ball
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: im not ok with any more chances
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: how long have we been doing this? MONTHS
[2008/07/12 11:15] You: I agree that we threatened, somewhat, or at least individual RA members did.
[2008/07/12 11:15] Sonja Strom: Is this in discussion now?
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: i have been asking YOU for months
[2008/07/12 11:15] You: Sonja, I think we need to hear from you too here.
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: months ago you asked him about the reimbursements you told me
[2008/07/12 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, yes, I understand this will be the last discussion. After all, the motion IS on the table and seconded.
[2008/07/12 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i will be very upset if you delay this any more
[2008/07/12 11:16] You: (those would be hob-nailed, politician-stomping boots, Prin?)
[2008/07/12 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: the fact you ran against him dont worry jamie, no one will think bad of you
[2008/07/12 11:16] Sonja Strom: Oh, I thought the motion was to extend the meeting time.
[2008/07/12 11:16] Jamie Palisades waits to hear Sonja’s take
[2008/07/12 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i made a mistake
[2008/07/12 11:17] Sonja Strom: I have a couple of questions.
[2008/07/12 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and yes
[2008/07/12 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was the second motion1
[2008/07/12 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure!
[2008/07/12 11:17] You: No, Sonja, we have a motion and second to remove the chancellor from office for repeated delays to respond .
[2008/07/12 11:17] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/12 11:17] Sonja Strom: How much longer would it be until the next RA takes office?
[2008/07/12 11:18] You: (Section 7 of Amendment 11 to constitution, at http://neufreistadt.info/id25.html)
[2008/07/12 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja don’t do that .. we need tomake a point that CDS is a serious endeavor
[2008/07/12 11:18] You: Our last meeting is in 2 weeks.
[2008/07/12 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: dont just let this slide
[2008/07/12 11:18] You: First week in August, new RA.
[2008/07/12 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: if a person can’t do the job then they needn’t volunteer
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: why do you ask how much longer?
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: So, unless the next RA wants Symo to continue as Chancellor, he has 3 weeks remaining for his term?
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: Symo?
[2008/07/12 11:19] You: hm Alexicon is chancellor 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: Sorry, Alexicon I meant
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/12 11:19] You: Alexicon Kurka? You voted for him 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: one of the Kurka family 😉
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: yes but we need action
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: true sonja
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: andhe didnt do his job sonja
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: I apologise to everybody for my mistake.
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: no worries
[2008/07/12 11:20] Sonja Strom: I was thinking of Alexicon Kurka, but spoke of Symo Kurka.
[2008/07/12 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: ok no problem
[2008/07/12 11:20] You: and in direct answer to your question, Sonja; yes. 3 weeks or so.
[2008/07/12 11:20] You: and by the way I assume we have to replace him too, if we do that.
[2008/07/12 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to remove him from office, mainly to show that one cannot just take things for granted and make the rest of him suffer
[2008/07/12 11:21] Sonja Strom: Another question is, do we have others who want to be Chancellor for these last 2 weeks of this term?
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: we can do that
[2008/07/12 11:21] You: anyone got a chancellor in their pocket?
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i can find one
[2008/07/12 11:21] Sonja Strom: hihi
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie
[2008/07/12 11:21] Sonja Strom: TP has one
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: gywen
[2008/07/12 11:21] You: I agree we have the legal power Prin, not a problem to just vote one in.
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: justice
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: how also ran
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: who ?
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: justice can do it
[2008/07/12 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone would do a better job in my opinion
[2008/07/12 11:22] Sonja Strom: If we wanted to appoint another Chancellor, should we hold debates again?
[2008/07/12 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: how about PIO
[2008/07/12 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: who is next in line
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: would you do it jamie? the RA elects chancellor so its no big deal
[2008/07/12 11:23] Sonja Strom: Would the next Chancellor be able to accomplish much in one or two weeks of being in office?
[2008/07/12 11:23] You: as we’re over the extended time, can I ask, are we going to act today? Sonja, are you prepared to vote?
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we dont need debates for that sonja we can just talk t o them
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: its a message sonja
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we can get a chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i am ready
[2008/07/12 11:23] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 11:24] You: This really comes down to the issue Prin and Sonja are discussing: do we want to swat Alexi for nonresponsiveness, and have the bother of an interim? Or not?
[2008/07/12 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone would accomplish something
[2008/07/12 11:24] Sonja Strom: No, my questions have not been answered to a level where I am prepared to vote to remove the current Chancellor from office.
[2008/07/12 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry for being away, since we’re running late, I’m trying to get ready to go out lol )
[2008/07/12 11:24] You: np Gwyn
[2008/07/12 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: what other questions do you have
[2008/07/12 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I can only answer on procedural things: voting in on a new Chancellor can be done by the RA at any time
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it could even be done today, lol
[2008/07/12 11:25] You: Sonja, thanks for being clear that does help us make progress. Since we know we do not have 5 votes today, I suggest that we plan to continue it as the first item next week.
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As if they could accomplish anything in two weeks…
[2008/07/12 11:25] Sonja Strom: If we wanted to appoint another Chancellor, should we hold debates again?
[2008/07/12 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: we dont need debates
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My feeling is “No” but that certainly depends on who becomes a new Chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone can do more in two weeks than he did in six months
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, we don’t need debates â€” candidates present themselves to the RA and get elected, that’s all it takes.
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… being reasonable,
[2008/07/12 11:26] Sonja Strom: Have we decided how we would select the next Chancellor/
[2008/07/12 11:26] Sonja Strom: ?
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is a “matter of principle”
[2008/07/12 11:26] You: Sonja, the procedural answer to that is that we can choose to, or not. Not sure I think it’s needed – this would be a caretaker appointment — There will be another chancellor election in the first week of August anyway.
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: we always vote for him sonja
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA votes
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. removing Alex from office because, well, the RA voted so
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: for chancellor every term
[2008/07/12 11:26] Sonja Strom: Do we know for certain that Justice wants to do it?
[2008/07/12 11:26] You: and as for “how”? The RA just votes, Sonja. no special rules required.
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is being pragmatic: I’d suggest that we’d go Chancellor-less for 2 weeks 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: no .. i dont know how wants to do it
[2008/07/12 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and allow the next one to get voted in as usual
[2008/07/12 11:27] Sonja Strom: I mean, that he still wants to do it?
[2008/07/12 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: i will do it and replace my seat.. jamie can do it.. gwyen you can do it and get someone to sit for csdf
[2008/07/12 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: bells can do it
[2008/07/12 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone can be chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:27] You: Was Justice ever interested? I hadn’t ever heard anyone other than MT and I discuss being interested, for this next term.
[2008/07/12 11:27] Sonja Strom: I would prefer for us to let Alexicon’s term expire with nothing done than to not have a Chancellor at all.
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: how pathetic
[2008/07/12 11:28] MT Lundquist: then we can elect a new one
[2008/07/12 11:28] MT Lundquist: immediately
[2008/07/12 11:28] You: Well, let be be clear about a couple of options – and this is just personal oopinion
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: let him stay in office??
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: to be nice
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: he has HURT
[2008/07/12 11:28] Sonja Strom: Then, naturally, that is left up to the Chancellor to decide how much he will or will not do in this time he has.
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/07/12 11:28] Sonja Strom: We are talking about at most two weeks —
[2008/07/12 11:28] You: 1. if you want to remove him now – sort of as a warning to future chancellors about not being responsive – I think we SHOULD have a caretaker
[2008/07/12 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 11:28] MT Lundquist: i do believe people should do their jobs
[2008/07/12 11:28] You: 2. for one thing that land sale might happen!
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: so we let him off the hook
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there isn’t the figure of a “Caretaker” or Vice-Chancellor…
[2008/07/12 11:29] MT Lundquist: and Alex has been sadly lacking
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: pathetic sonja
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: we can elect jamie
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i move you will be next chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: will you do it
[2008/07/12 11:29] You: 3. I can think of three people who can do it as a replacement who are in the room and can say yes now
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha no, Prin, since Jamie is LRA!
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: conflict of interests!
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/07/12 11:29] Sonja Strom: Isn’t Alexicon a member of NuCARE?
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: oh come on
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he is
[2008/07/12 11:29] Sonja Strom: Why don’t you talk with him?
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But point 3 is ok
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thats irrelevant i think
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: who can ? is that person on jamie
[2008/07/12 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sonja, we have talked and talked
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: is anyone on who will do it
[2008/07/12 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean mmmh
[2008/07/12 11:30] You: Sonja, if we had a satisfactory replacement right now, would that change your mind about the vote?
[2008/07/12 11:30] Sonja Strom: I mean, the NuCARE members of the RA — can’t they talk with him as a member of their faction?
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: we have tried
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: for the whole term
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: he is beligerant
[2008/07/12 11:30] You: Because I can easily imagine us all agreeing on me OR MT OR Gwyn … and I could give you a good reason for each of those 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: its embarrasing to us
[2008/07/12 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And to be honest, it wasn’t just NuCARE that talked to Alex…
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: he wont do what is best for CDS
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: all of us have tried
[2008/07/12 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Prin is right on that
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: if one of us will do it, like MT , is that a problem that he will vote
[2008/07/12 11:31] Sonja Strom: So the motion on the table now is to vote on removal of the Chancellor next week?
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no to remove him now
[2008/07/12 11:31] MT Lundquist: i would do it if the RA wished that
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and vote someone in now
[2008/07/12 11:31] You: but really the threshold issue is irrelevant if we do not want to vote to remove today. I actually like Alexi. Great guy. creative. Just inattentive.
[2008/07/12 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: removal now, today
[2008/07/12 11:31] You: Um, no Sonja, the motion Prin made was, remove now.
[2008/07/12 11:32] You: and to answer Prin’s procedural question
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: id rather rose or arria.. bells … gwyen ..
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: mt
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja i would vote for you
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: will you be chancellor for two weeks
[2008/07/12 11:32] You: we’re all RA memebrs and all can vote even if one of us was appointed, yes.
[2008/07/12 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, Jamie, for the record, I love Alex too as a person, he’s very talent, enthusiastic, and a good friend. But that’s just a personal thing!
[2008/07/12 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn is not available for Chancellor, sorry
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i do too… its not personal.. its not political.. it is for the best for CDS
[2008/07/12 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just to make clear 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:32] Sonja Strom: ok – I don’t think we should remove him immediately. If we want to vote on his removal, we should allow him to be present and say something about it beforehand if he would like.
[2008/07/12 11:32] You: It’s 11:30.
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja we have been doing that
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he has already two weeks ago
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we did that last week
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and last week
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[2008/07/12 11:33] Sonja Strom: Then if we invite him, and he does not come, then that is his choice.
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we did that gave him unlitmateums and he didnt respond
[2008/07/12 11:33] Sonja Strom: Then we can hold the vote.
[2008/07/12 11:33] MT Lundquist: he came last week sonja
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja we did that!
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would be the third time, Sonja. In that I have to side with Prin,
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we have done all this already for months sonja
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alex *did* have plenty of opportunities
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: LOTs
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, just one question
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did people get paid?
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOO
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s forget the tourist thingy no
[2008/07/12 11:33] Sonja Strom: Really? We invited him to come to a vote of his removal?
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: no one got paid
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i got one
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last week,
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we did sonja
[2008/07/12 11:34] You: Ladies and gentlemen 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:34] You: …
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he submitted 13 points on an email
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to the Treasurer
[2008/07/12 11:34] You: this is all on record
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for payment.
[2008/07/12 11:34] Sonja Strom: oh, ok, sorry, I didn’t understand that.
[2008/07/12 11:34] Sonja Strom: ok, then I will vote now.
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i got one payment but no notice of why the other three were not paid.. that one that was paid fro was from 2007
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There was ONLY one point where he was adamant: he refused to buy a non-transfer item for the tourist guide
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i was just paid for a december vote
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All the remaining ones were pending payments
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: of 2007
[2008/07/12 11:35] MT Lundquist: lets vote
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: its half through 2008
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So what I was trying to say is…
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why didn’t people get paid,
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the Chancellor ordered the payments? 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no one knows!
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly…
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i got ONE payment from a december thing
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, the mail was NOT lost
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unlike the notecards
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: well come on … it was alexicon ….
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Treasurer showed me the mail she’d received
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah
[2008/07/12 11:36] You: Let me just check — so we’re clear – you are confident that he’s been warned, based on the Q&A and prior requests? because I think Sonja’s concern is the same as mind: fair process.
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I know there was an Exec meeting last SUnday or so (I wasn’t allowed to attend)
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i am confident that he has been warned many many many many times
[2008/07/12 11:36] MT Lundquist: and he was told at RA
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: since the begining of the term
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: bells worked for him
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m confident too, but I wonder what happened to that list of payments
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: she can bring up a whole nother set of issues
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Were they just, uh, blowing dust in my eyes?…
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: Um – Gwyn – I am not quite getting the significance of your point about the e-mail and the Executive meeting?
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue here is that I got a strong impression,
[2008/07/12 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: want me to open the next can of worms about him ?
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: by seeing a mail requesting payments last week
[2008/07/12 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the one about him trying to get money for him self?
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: (not yet – let’s hear Gwyn’s point)
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that there was an attempt to comply with the RA’s demands.
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: ahh
[2008/07/12 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: feeble too little too late
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was a tricky one, Prin
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: but Gwyn you support his removal anyway?
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he has enrolled himself as janitor and demanded payment for that.
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: no i mean the website snafu
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I surely dislike the way things are happening!!!
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the website…
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: he wanted to get us a very expensive webiste portal and bee paid
[2008/07/12 11:38] Jamie Palisades mutters .. chancellor janitor? … and shrugs a little
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: to run it
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s more my fault really, Prin
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: NO i dont think you were involved .. in the first weeks
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: it was him and mizou and arria
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, well, we talked a long time about that and agreed that the CDS would not pay him for that,
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i kept it hush………..
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just order a shared virtual server for US$10/month
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and he’d have access to it
[2008/07/12 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: this was way before that
[2008/07/12 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: he wanted a 100 a month one
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he wanted an insane amount of money to run the website 🙁
[2008/07/12 11:39] MT Lundquist: yes i spoke to him about it to
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[2008/07/12 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: remember and he would also be paid to run it
[2008/07/12 11:39] You: Well, hmm. I do not think this additional chat is changing any minds, eh?
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s totally correct, Prin
[2008/07/12 11:39] MT Lundquist: can we vote?
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: shall i tell you he wanted to MAKE money of his own rl , for being chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: please lets vote
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: this is painful
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wouldn’t go on accusing him with that, not outside an impeachment court, Prin.
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because that would be trying to determine malicious intent
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as said, we talked him out of that particular idea
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: long ago.
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ok well i am just saying .. that this is the tip of a huge iceberg what you see
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He STILL enrolled himself as janitor and sent an email to request payment for THAT.
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: please dont let it slide.. and its my faction, yes.. can you imagine how i feel
[2008/07/12 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanted him to BE chancellor .. i nominated him
[2008/07/12 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but CDS is what i LOVE
[2008/07/12 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wasn’t in the RA, but I certainly was quite encouraging of having him as Chancellor,
[2008/07/12 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and MT
[2008/07/12 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the first 2 or 3 weeks even went well in the planning stage 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:41] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and bells
[2008/07/12 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees a lot of love floating around 😀
[2008/07/12 11:42] You: heh I have not forgotten who suported him, Prin. Pragmatically, I would like to reserve the right to run for chancellor next term. To me it seems a bit odd to jump in now — I still have a few things to complete as LRA. Can I ask if MT would (a) be willing to serve for three weeks, and (b) can be immediately replaced on RA for 3 weeks by SOMEONE from NuCARE? Because if we know we have a replacement, that’s a factor. (Actually I’d love to elect Gwyn for 3 weeks in view of her long service to CDS, but if she says no, well, that’s it.)
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie please
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes ..
[2008/07/12 11:42] Mikelo Serevi: What REAL benefit, aside of making an example of Alex, would come of this removal?
[2008/07/12 11:42] You: Prin perhaps I should get that from a NuCARE member instead? (smile)
[2008/07/12 11:42] MT Lundquist: yes i would do that
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i can get one
[2008/07/12 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mikelo, some things â€” like payments â€” might be settled once and for all.
[2008/07/12 11:43] MT Lundquist: at the request of the RA
[2008/07/12 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we have adequate volunteers to fill our seat
[2008/07/12 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: please dont make it political though
[2008/07/12 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone who wants it i will suport.. csdf any faction if its a good citizen who will try
[2008/07/12 11:44] You: Prin, I am adequately confused about NuCARE right now that “we” is a tough term 🙂 but NuCARE has 3 RA candidates for the next term, so it seems reaonsable to assume one can serve short time, right, MT?
[2008/07/12 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh well, I cannot ask anyone *right now* to act as a replacement 😀
[2008/07/12 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean from the CSDF
[2008/07/12 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i am nucare today
[2008/07/12 11:44] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i am always CDS first though
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: believe it.. or not
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: MT would be a fine chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:45] You: I think we’re ready to vote then. This is serious stuff.
[2008/07/12 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes it is, it’ll set a precedent.
[2008/07/12 11:45] You: I don;t like it when we have to remove someone, let’s take it with the tone it deserves.
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i think it matters this is really not a game.. it is serous
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: serious
[2008/07/12 11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we are the only suriviving democracy in sl
[2008/07/12 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely, that a Chancellor cannot avoid to comply with the RA’s reasonable requests without having very good excuses
[2008/07/12 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m afraid that I haven’t seen any excuses 🙁
[2008/07/12 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not good, nor bad.
—-
[2008/07/12 11:46] You: It has been moved and seconded that we remove Alexicon Kurka as Chancellor, for the reasons stated in the debate.
[2008/07/12 11:46] You: Members please state your vote.
[2008/07/12 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye on removal.
[2008/07/12 11:47] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/12 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi on behalf of nucare.. and sadly vote aye
[2008/07/12 11:47] Jamie Palisades patiently waits for Sonja.
[2008/07/12 11:47] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/12 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi cries
[2008/07/12 11:48] You: Alright then. I vote aye. I will inform Alexi. I move that we elect MT as Chancellor.
[2008/07/12 11:48] You: (and ask NuCare to fill his term for the next three weeks.)
[2008/07/12 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Are there more candidates here and now in this room?
[2008/07/12 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: mkelo? bells?
[2008/07/12 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja do you wanna do it
[2008/07/12 11:49] Sonja Strom: no, thank you
[2008/07/12 11:49] Mikelo Serevi: At the last minute like this?
[2008/07/12 11:49] You: Let’s see, but honestly, for a 3 week caretaker I do not believe we are obligated to seek them
[2008/07/12 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to agree, Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:49] You: And It iwll only take 3 votes, but I have to say with apologies that I would not vote for someone who;s dead new to the government at this stage.
[2008/07/12 11:49] Sonja Strom: Well, it does not hurt to ask if anyone else here would like to do it.
[2008/07/12 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: do you sonja
[2008/07/12 11:50] Sonja Strom: Maybe I misunderstood —
[2008/07/12 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn requests one minute
[2008/07/12 11:51] Sonja Strom: I thought Jamie was saying it was not required of us to take into consideration others besides MT.
[2008/07/12 11:51] Mikelo Serevi: I may know someone. hang on.
[2008/07/12 11:51] You: We are heading into hour 3 here folks. I woud like us to have a replacement. That is correct Sonja – we are not *required* to do so.
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: jon lives with gyneth now i know
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: jon is here
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: PIP
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: oh they come out of the woodwork
[2008/07/12 11:51] Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
[2008/07/12 11:51] MT Lundquist: hi pip
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/12 11:51] You: but I am not too happy about a bunch of last minute candidate being dragged in. That’s unseemly.
[2008/07/12 11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin: lol
[2008/07/12 11:52] Mikelo Serevi: it really is, IMHO
[2008/07/12 11:52] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i move my MT is chancellor for the last few weeks
[2008/07/12 11:52] Sonja Strom: Second
[2008/07/12 11:52] You: Um I already did move that Prin – you want to second it? OK 🙂 it got two seconds
[2008/07/12 11:52] Pip Torok: hallo can someone bring me up to speed?
[2008/07/12 11:52] MT Lundquist: i will obviously drop out of this vote
[2008/07/12 11:52] ThePrincess Parisi: we just removed alexicon from office
[2008/07/12 11:52] Sonja Strom: Pip, Alexicon Kurka has been removed as Chancellor.
[2008/07/12 11:53] Mikelo Serevi: They are looking for a 3-week replacement.
[2008/07/12 11:53] You: (In midmeeting, that’s a tough request Pip. We have removed Alexi. We are discussing a replacaement. )
[2008/07/12 11:53] Sonja Strom: right
[2008/07/12 11:53] You: RA members, please: does anyone wish to nominate another candidate? We have one.
[2008/07/12 11:53] You: If not let’s elect him and be done. If you have one, speak now please.
[2008/07/12 11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/12 11:53] Sonja Strom: Actually we are in mid-vote, right?
[2008/07/12 11:54] Pip Torok: who are the candidates?
[2008/07/12 11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: MT
[2008/07/12 11:54] Pip Torok: then I’d like to put myself forward as candidate
[2008/07/12 11:54] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/12 11:54] You: We have a motion and second. I have asked for other candidates. none have been offered. I propose to CLOSE the nominations now — unkess someone speaks up!
[2008/07/12 11:54] You: ah sorry Pip, OK, just saw that.
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: You understand this is for 3 weeks, yes?
[2008/07/12 11:55] Sonja Strom: Perhaps we could re-phrase the question?
[2008/07/12 11:55] Pip Torok: i do realise that jamie
[2008/07/12 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, thanks, Pip
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: Let me address RA members only for a moment.
[2008/07/12 11:55] Pip Torok: ok …
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: I have one nominatied candiate.
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: MT
[2008/07/12 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s really “on the spur of the moment”, but the job is easy actually: making sure that in the next two weeks people get paid what teh CDS owns them for the past 6 months 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: Youc an add more if you want, including nominating Pip.
[2008/07/12 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Jamie, yes, of course
[2008/07/12 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: and buy a sim
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: which no member has yet done.
[2008/07/12 11:56] Sonja Strom: I nominate Pip.
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: ah there 🙂 thanks
[2008/07/12 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since Pip is willing, I also nominate him as a candidate â€” gladly so
[2008/07/12 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: Last call. Any others?
[2008/07/12 11:56] Pip Torok: then i’d like to add one … myself
[2008/07/12 11:56] Sonja Strom: Pip, RA members only in this vote please.
[2008/07/12 11:57] Pip Torok: (sorry that was redundant)
[2008/07/12 11:57] You: Pip. You are not an RA member so you cannot make motions or nominations here, but you are welcome to offer yourself as a candidate, and I will ask you to speak in favor of yourself in a few minutes.
[2008/07/12 11:57] You: RA members: May I close nominations?
[2008/07/12 11:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes isr
[2008/07/12 11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we have two candidates only, right?
[2008/07/12 11:57] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/07/12 11:58] You: We are ONE HOUR over time.
[2008/07/12 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn will sadly only be able to vote on the replacement Chancellor and then has to go out in a hurry
[2008/07/12 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: wait
[2008/07/12 11:58] You: do we require debate? Would a short statement from each candidate suffice?
[2008/07/12 11:58] MT Lundquist: as PIp has shown a willingness to be chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:59] MT Lundquist: I’m prepared to withdraw
[2008/07/12 11:59] MT Lundquist: from the nomination
[2008/07/12 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/12 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: so pip is the only candidate
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/12 12:00] Sonja Strom: Thanks, MT – that might be better for the operation of the government, as you are a member of the Representative Assembly.
[2008/07/12 12:00] You: Indeed. May I ask? Pip I just do not have the data, so (a) are you a member of a CDS faction? and (b) have you had any experience administering organizations?
[2008/07/12 12:00] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (b) most certainly 😀
[2008/07/12 12:00] You: but I was asking Pip, Gwyn, sorry
[2008/07/12 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and will you treat me with the respect Your Highness deserves
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry
[2008/07/12 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and no more
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her mouth*
[2008/07/12 12:00] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/07/12 12:01] MT Lundquist: yes pip i have to
[2008/07/12 12:01] Pip Torok: yes i am a member of a cds faction the DPU and yes i do have extensive _liaison_ experience in my job
[2008/07/12 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: im just kidding 🙂 sorry
[2008/07/12 12:01] Pip Torok: and later at a London Medical College
[2008/07/12 12:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i recommend pip highly fellow ra members
[2008/07/12 12:02] You: I just haven’t met Pip for very long, so apologize that this turn of events leaving me with no data as you all strive to pull candidates out of a hat 🙂 Has someone on the RA worked with Pip, perhaps, and can say a few words?
[2008/07/12 12:02] ThePrincess Parisi: if he puts his mind to it , i know he can do a good job.. he has done some nice things for CDS and i know he feels strongly about our community
[2008/07/12 12:02] Pip Torok: did you get those words?
[2008/07/12 12:02] Sonja Strom: Pip has taken part in coordinating the DPU platform.
[2008/07/12 12:03] ThePrincess Parisi: and though he feigns mislike of me personally .. i do believe he will do well for CDS
[2008/07/12 12:03] Sonja Strom: He has been helpful in the faction, and good to work with.
[2008/07/12 12:03] Pip Torok: hallo i put a speech out but i was in mouse-mode
[2008/07/12 12:03] You: Pip, I note you did not have the time or inclination to run for RA’ do you at least have some short-term time available for this next month? We’re likely to have some needs that require focus.
[2008/07/12 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only vouch for Pip’s talent in organising some good, interesting events in the CDS, which are of highly entertaining cultural value
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: he can read great poems aloud
[2008/07/12 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he can indeed, Prin!!!
[2008/07/12 12:04] Sonja Strom: He is a good dancer.
[2008/07/12 12:04] Pip Torok: well i have a problem with bad eyes .. but can offer consistency
[2008/07/12 12:04] MT Lundquist: i to have heard that
[2008/07/12 12:04] You: Oh I have attended those readings 🙂 No doubt about his oratory skills
[2008/07/12 12:04] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: and his enlish accent is not quite but almost as great as MTs
[2008/07/12 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))))
[2008/07/12 12:04] You: How are you for, ahem, time, Pip? 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol prin!
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: no i think he will do a great job.. i know he is devoted to CDS
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: .
[2008/07/12 12:05] MT Lundquist: that i believe too
[2008/07/12 12:05] Pip Torok: well i can be available until about 3 or 4pm slt on most days
[2008/07/12 12:05] Pip Torok: (you need to add 8 hrs onto slt to get my time)
[2008/07/12 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: he’s inworld a lot.. i think he will get more done in the past three weeks.. than in the last six months.. pip.. will you have an election event?
[2008/07/12 12:06] Pip Torok: an election event?
[2008/07/12 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the inaugural?
[2008/07/12 12:06] You: Coming in on the heels of a removal for nonresponsiveness, Pip, I hope you can understand that my concern is whether you can give the short term tasks a bit of focus in the next three weeks
[2008/07/12 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: hells was more like it for me
[2008/07/12 12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Honestly, for the next 2-3 weeks, there is just one major issue to get solved: the payments. Minor issues are: helping the coordination of the debate; organising the election ball next week. And, well, then it’s time to pick a new Chancellor anyway…
[2008/07/12 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: have you read the chancellor job description pip?
[2008/07/12 12:06] You: Luckily you *would* have the benefit of a lot of people willing to help — CDS is good that way
[2008/07/12 12:06] MT Lundquist: yes i wasnt phased by hells
[2008/07/12 12:07] Pip Torok: well jamie i will do what i can tho there will be a limit that my eyes can impose
[2008/07/12 12:07] You: 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s more than reasonable for me, Pip :)))
[2008/07/12 12:07] MT Lundquist: i’m happy
[2008/07/12 12:07] You: Any other questions? We seem to have one nominee. Are you ready to vote?
[2008/07/12 12:07] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: ready
[2008/07/12 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready.
[2008/07/12 12:08] Sonja Strom: I move that we elect Pip Torok as Chancellor for the remainder of this term.
[2008/07/12 12:08] You: Members please state your vote on electing Pip Torok. I vote aye.
[2008/07/12 12:08] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear.. aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] You: It’s unanininmous then. Congratulations.
[2008/07/12 12:08] You: Pip, I’d suggest you talk to Sudane and Moon straightaway 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:09] Pip Torok: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen
[2008/07/12 12:09] MT Lundquist: congrats
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: now get to work
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to thnk you very much for doing this, Pip
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i know you will do a great job!
[2008/07/12 12:09] Sonja Strom: congratulations, and thanks, to you Pip
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s terrible hard to drop in the middle of a situation like that, unprepared and all
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my warmest congratulations!
[2008/07/12 12:09] You: Indeed
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: meet with sudane
[2008/07/12 12:09] Pip Torok: thank you gwyneth
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: is my suggestion
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and aliasi
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that will be a priority 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane is online, but she was in a meeting.
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: or we will kick your butt out too
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/07/12 12:10] Sonja Strom: The Chancellor before Alexicon was Dnate.
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: oh right and he was DPU
[2008/07/12 12:10] Sonja Strom: He might be good to talk with also.
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: Dnate would help a lot, hes inworld a lot when you are pip
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: ok love you all i am outta here
[2008/07/12 12:10] Sonja Strom: Bye bye
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you jamie
[2008/07/12 12:10] Pip Torok: thank you like other chancellors i’ll need all the help i can get!
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: 🙂 probably…
[2008/07/12 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we need a ceremony :)))))))
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: Right!
[2008/07/12 12:11] MT Lundquist: ok i need to go eat
[2008/07/12 12:11] MT Lundquist: bye for now
[2008/07/12 12:11] You: May we adjourn then? Next week same time – and RA debate TOMORROW
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: Bye MT.

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: July 19, 2008

Agenda

Proposed agenda:
1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 09h00 – 09h20)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans. Note RA election schedule.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
(None.)

ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS
2. Sim 4 & general master plan: update (15 mins: 09h20 – 09h35)
3. Code reorganization report (15 mins: 09h35 – 09h50)
4. Chancellor removal and related matters. (30 mins: 09h50 – 10h20)

NEW ITEMS
5. Other?
5. Open Discussion (10 mins.: 10h20-10h30)
Adjournment: 10h30

Transcript

====
Transcript of 19 July 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items (or at least topical divisions)
====

[2008/07/19 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in June it would be sardines… lol
[2008/07/19 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in November, roasted chestnuts…
[2008/07/19 9:09] You: mmmmm Big glass of papaya juice and .. um .. a handful of sardines …
[2008/07/19 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie 😀
[2008/07/19 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh in Neufreistadt, it would be chicken hats…
[2008/07/19 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In Colonia Nova, most likely… togas 😉
[2008/07/19 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we get our own traditions here too 😉
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: chicken hats. Man I hate the taste of those feathers.
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: well
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: shall we get started?
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL jamie!
—-
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: 1a
[2008/07/19 9:11] Jon Seattle: Hi Arria 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, hello!
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: Please indicate your assent to our recording a transcript. I assent.
[2008/07/19 9:11] Arria Perreault: Hi everybody :-))
[2008/07/19 9:11] Justice Soothsayer: I assent.
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I assent.
[2008/07/19 9:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/07/19 9:11] Arria Perreault: I assent
[2008/07/19 9:11] Jon Seattle: I ascent
[2008/07/19 9:12] Sudane Erato: i agree
[2008/07/19 9:12] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/07/19 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jon, nice typo 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:12] Bells Semyorka: i assent
[2008/07/19 9:12] Rose Springvale: its all part of the cloud thing right jon?
[2008/07/19 9:12] Jon Seattle: I ascend as well?
[2008/07/19 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re on a transcendental mood today!
[2008/07/19 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ommmmm
[2008/07/19 9:12] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/07/19 9:12] You: 🙂 Spoken like a skeptical buddhist – right down to the question mark
[2008/07/19 9:12] Jon Seattle laughs
[2008/07/19 9:12] Justice Soothsayer snorts
[2008/07/19 9:13] Rose Springvale: brb
[2008/07/19 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very Zen indeed.
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: Right.
—-
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: 1b
[2008/07/19 9:13] Sonja Strom: Hi Sheen
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: agenda
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1973
[2008/07/19 9:13] Sheen Runo: Hi
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: All are welcome, but this is a formal meeting, so please have a seat & enjoy politely.
[2008/07/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: naffie!
[2008/07/19 9:13] Sonja Strom: hi Naftali
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: Any proposals for change to the posted agenda?
[2008/07/19 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Naftali!!
[2008/07/19 9:14] You: (I have one)
[2008/07/19 9:14] Jon Seattle: Hi Naftali, Sheen
[2008/07/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: give me the link please
[2008/07/19 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1973 Prin
[2008/07/19 9:14] You: agenda > /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1973
[2008/07/19 9:14] You: I would like to move item 4 to before item 2.
[2008/07/19 9:14] Moon Adamant: hello all :))
[2008/07/19 9:15] Sonja Strom: Hi Moon
[2008/07/19 9:15] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: anything on the agenda, with that change?
—-
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: ok then

[2008/07/19 9:15] You: 1c
[2008/07/19 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I’d wait until we’re quorate
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: we are 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh!
[2008/07/19 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: I see 4 of seven present
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: unless you’re a Gwynbot
[2008/07/19 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah perfect then. Sorry.
[2008/07/19 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m a bot, yes 😀
[2008/07/19 9:16] Jamie Palisades looks CAREFULLY at Gwyn’s floating last name
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: Ya never know
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: 1c …
[2008/07/19 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: Other than RA members, and Moon on the sim4 stuff, anyone else have a specific plan to talk to us today, so we can get you in the agenda?
[2008/07/19 9:17] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/07/19 9:17] Justice Soothsayer plans on being a quiet observer
[2008/07/19 9:17] Moon Adamant: i intend to speak
[2008/07/19 9:17] Sonja Strom: Is ThePrincess no longer here?
[2008/07/19 9:17] Moon Adamant: just in case 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:17] You: OK – on items other than sim4 Moon? Fine, just let us know when … (citizens get a privileged place and we save time if they tell us now – that’s why we have this agenda item)
[2008/07/19 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin looks pretty invisible to me.
[2008/07/19 9:18] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2008/07/19 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts again
[2008/07/19 9:19] You: so noted. Usually at this point we wait a minute to see if it’s a crash issue
[2008/07/19 9:19] You: I weill make some suggestions about how to proceed otherwise, smile
[2008/07/19 9:20] Jamie Palisades smiles placidly and checks a few things offline
[2008/07/19 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn places a clock behind Jamie
[2008/07/19 9:20] You: gwyn? Is that necessary, or do you have a point?
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: Hi FRC
[2008/07/19 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/19 9:21] You: aparently not 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:21] Sonja Strom: Hi FR
[2008/07/19 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no I haven’t)
[2008/07/19 9:21] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/07/19 9:21] You: Er – I like you too Roc
[2008/07/19 9:21] Jon Seattle: yay FR!
[2008/07/19 9:21] Flyingroc Chung: huh?
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: smile
[2008/07/19 9:21] Flyingroc Chung: am I sitting on someone?
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: you are on his lap
[2008/07/19 9:21] Moon Adamant: hi FR 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re VERY welcome, FRC!
[2008/07/19 9:21] You: ahem, smile
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: seat next to him FRC
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: there we go – and welcome
[2008/07/19 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Once more, the primate saves the day!
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: this is a good meeting for us to have quorum
[2008/07/19 9:22] Sonja Strom: wb ThePrincess
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: 🙂 even if all might not wish it
[2008/07/19 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 9:22] Rose Springvale: yay for all RA members who come to meetings!
[2008/07/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[2008/07/19 9:22] Flyingroc Chung: sorry about being absent last couple of ones
[2008/07/19 9:22] Flyingroc Chung: RL
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: ah. Prin. Roc has joined us, and I see you are back. I hope thelaptop’s behaving OK for you.
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: no prob
[—-
2008/07/19 9:23] You: we were on 1d
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: Routine notice – let me know if the RA transcripts need correcting please
—-
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: 1e
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: Future meetings 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is on his way
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: We have one more scheduled
[2008/07/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: he asked to wait
[2008/07/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: please
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: OK Prin – n p if he’s here soon – let’s finish up the routine stuff
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: 1e
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: This RA meets next Saturday at 9 am SLT
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no issues on the transcript, actually, rather the contrary 😉 )
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: and that’s out last scheduled meeting
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: Polls for the current election close today at noon LST
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie. In NFS or CN?
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: NDS, we rotate 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or AM… we could do that for a change
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, right, ok.
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: and then I will if no one objects arrange for a tentative first meeting date for the newly seated RA on the next Saturday
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: let’s see, what IS that?
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: 2 august
[2008/07/19 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: and they can get off and running
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: I will communicate this to the elected incoming members after they;re annoucned 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: If they have an LRA that person can do as they like
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: but we’ll svae a tentative time for them for conveience, subject to change
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: thatg’s it for schedule
[2008/07/19 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh. Well. They’ll decide on their own, but ok.
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: where
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: let me just ask — no big probs with meeting next wek? any big items lurking that we’re supposed to get to by then?
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: we ususally do an announcement
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: I agree Gwyn – just making it easy for the handoff – new LRA can change it
[2008/07/19 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean when we are all together
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: anouncement of what prin?
[2008/07/19 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: the new RA
[2008/07/19 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: who will tell that
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: when
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: and where
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: ah
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: 1. SC will announce
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: 2. that SHOULD produce a new LRA
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: 3. that person will handle it
[2008/07/19 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… usually it’s supposed to be the SC making the announcement
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: 4. I am not going to POST that meeting date
[2008/07/19 9:27] Jon Seattle: yes
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: 5. but we’ll just sav ethat saturday slto for them if they want it
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: ok? makes sense to all?
[2008/07/19 9:27] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat…
[2008/07/19 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1-3 surely
[2008/07/19 9:27] Connected
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: and this time I will make sure they get forum posting access immediately ? Right Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
[2008/07/19 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: riiight 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: what
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: heh heh do not worry too much about me influencing the poor, shrinking, terrified new LRA Gwyn
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean we arent meeting to find out who won?
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: now?
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: No Prin
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: she wont be terrified
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: ‘polls close at noon
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: why
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: She? 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: so what when jon gives the info then the PIO announces
[2008/07/19 9:28] Flyingroc Chung: omg I havent voted.
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: Arria
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: I was staying gender neutral myself until the polls close
[2008/07/19 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR!!!!
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: go vote FR
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn strangles the ape slowly
[2008/07/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: brb
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Ahem 🙂 polls are open for an hour AFTER this meeting concludes folks
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Roc
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: too late lol
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: roc go vote ffs
[2008/07/19 9:29] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/07/19 9:29] Jamie Palisades sighs
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: sighs
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Gwyn you and quorum seem to be an issue todaay …
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have an idea!
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: what quaorom
[2008/07/19 9:29] Jon Seattle: Yes, the polls will close at noon SLT.
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: what is your idea gwyen
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll go away, and the quorum problems will disappear 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/19 9:29] Arria Perreault: the PIO must wait the conformation of the SC chair
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ok bye
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Gwyn if you are done with correcting me on transition matters, or trying, can we continue?
[2008/07/19 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure thing, Mr LRA 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:30] Jamie Palisades pleasantly smiles and waits
—-
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: 1f
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: consent items?
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: I know of none
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who bought the guided tour?
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: that would bring us to item 4 – which we moved to in front of item 2
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: since its six months old that issue
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: EXCUSE ME
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i have an issue of concsent
[2008/07/19 9:30] Moon Adamant: sighs
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: got it – tour 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi sticks her tongue out at moon
[2008/07/19 9:31] You: it’s consent only if not controversial and easy to pass without objection 🙂 have one of those?
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah thats not controversial
[2008/07/19 9:31] You: OK 🙂 what?
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted it in last term
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: who when and where is the tour
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote to get it
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no quorum
[2008/07/19 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR is back in… 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: oh good
[2008/07/19 9:32] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: wheeew
[2008/07/19 9:32] Rose Springvale: wb FRC
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i keep crashing today
[2008/07/19 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent timing, Mr Chung!
[2008/07/19 9:32] Moon Adamant: wb FR
[2008/07/19 9:32] You: OK. Tour.
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: so can we vote to go ahead a buy a tour
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: see the thing about it being transfer has to do with the stuff like the things….
[2008/07/19 9:32] You: Prin – I do not know because the person who woudl tell us is the chancellor, who as you may recall was removed 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: like ……
[2008/07/19 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the last suggestion we had last week was that we’d get not one, but at least two “tour devices”, so that a copy can be delivered to the Content Archivist
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well its not for him to say
[2008/07/19 9:32] Moon Adamant: really?
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: cos he misunderstood that the reason we need to have things in archives
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: that cant be resplaced
[2008/07/19 9:33] You: Do you have a motion to make regarding this that you would like to sugest is noncontroversial? If not let’s create a new agenda item 5 at THE END of the agenda
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: replaced
[2008/07/19 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine in recommending that the Executive buys at least two devices…
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i move that we go ahead and buy two guided tour vehicles
[2008/07/19 9:33] You: (the consent agenda is only for little, quick stuff) (anything else is out of order, and comes AFTER scheduled items)
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: cos he misunderstood
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: that is pretty fast
[2008/07/19 9:33] You: OK that’s a motion, basically directing the executive to act
[2008/07/19 9:34] You: is there a second?
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* well, a recommendation
[2008/07/19 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: no lets direct .. that we have it bought by someone else
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine in seconding it.
[2008/07/19 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: not the chancellor since h e has had six months and its not done
[2008/07/19 9:34] You: waiting for a second – if none I will suggest we take this BACK up near meeting end, when we can take more time with it
[2008/07/19 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: someone besides the chancelor
[2008/07/19 9:34] Moon Adamant: er, it must the content archivist then
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon
[2008/07/19 9:34] You: ah good point 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: [9:37] You: I’m fine in seconding it.
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You being me… I mean…
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/07/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: who is you
[2008/07/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: am i you
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: hahah hang on
[2008/07/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no im bells
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: ah got it – gwyn seconded
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: OK then
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m also ok in discussing it under point 5, Mr LRA
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your call really…
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: here’s the deal 🙂 are you two agreed on whether this is a direction or a recommendation? if so we have a motion
[2008/07/19 9:36] You: and second
[2008/07/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh I see your point. Well… it’s a recommendation, since if it’s not, well, it becomes a bill, and the Chancellor can veto it 😉
[2008/07/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A recommendation can be simply ignored 😉
[2008/07/19 9:36] You: so it’s a motion to direct
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: OK 🙂 any other RA members wish to speak? Any prob with just passing it wihtout objection?
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: yes to direct someone like moon to buy the guided tour.. someone unbiased
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: FRankly I think this needs more work and oprefer to do it as item 5
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: good point
[2008/07/19 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh in that case I withdraw my second; I’m fine with a recommendation, not a direct order 😛 I think that’s a bad precedent, and we had our shares of badly gone direct orders :S
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: we don’t quite know who we’re directing for example
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: what more work could it need it happened six months ag o
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: gimme a break
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: its ten dollars
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: let’s do it today and take it up – AFTER items 2 3 4
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ive waited over six months
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: NO
[2008/07/19 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’m fine with that discussion under point 5.
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: Prin I think we can get it done, just needs a bit of sanding on the edges
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: im not
[2008/07/19 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s vote then 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: I rule it’s not a consent item, though
—
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: on to agenda item 4
[2008/07/19 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: (which we moved to before 2)
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ok w/e
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: Chancellor removal items
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: first some announcements
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is on his way too
[2008/07/19 9:38] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: 1. Presumably you all know there’s a lot of comment on the forums 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and a lot of lies there
[2008/07/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: LOTS
[2008/07/19 9:39] You: 2. I already announced my own views, which I’m thinking you know too
[2008/07/19 9:39] You: 3. Please note there is a pending SC appeal
[2008/07/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: you all call me a liar.. read the forum.. theres some pretty bad lies there that i didnt tell
[2008/07/19 9:39] You: (procedurally I do not think we have to do anything about that – as to the appeal – just noting, they have one, they will do their thing – if it goes forward, they’ll announce a meeting for a hearing, I guess – but it does not …
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: require any immediate action from us .. anyone see that differently?)
[2008/07/19 9:40] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: ok then, so much for appeal
[2008/07/19 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedurally, you’re correct, Mr LRA.
[2008/07/19 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. technically our bill to remove the Chancellor is ‘pending review’ and not in effect.
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: and finally
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: 4. please be advised
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: Mr. Torok has resigned as replacement chancellor as of this morning.
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: He did so to make our burdens easier, not out of any issues with CDS
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: see here:
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1976
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: so
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: We need to elect a chancellor.
[2008/07/19 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh
[2008/07/19 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tricky 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: That concludes my announcements. Hello MT – please assent to the transcript when you get a chance
[2008/07/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: not at all, Gwyn. There is a vacancy.
[2008/07/19 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn quotes from the Hitch-Hiker’s Guide.
[2008/07/19 9:42] Moon Adamant: Mr LRA
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: We fill it.
[2008/07/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is here
[2008/07/19 9:42] Moon Adamant: if Pip resigned
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: Moon? Perhaps better if RA members speak first
[2008/07/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i move MT run for chancellor
[2008/07/19 9:42] Moon Adamant: and if if the motion that removed Alex is suspended
[2008/07/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and Rose
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: We should take nominations for chancellor next, Prin, yes.
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and i move that Moon nominates for chancellor too
[2008/07/19 9:43] Moon Adamant: then Alex is still the Chancellor, correct?
[2008/07/19 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedurally, no â€” our vote to remove the Chancellor is a bill, and it’s being reviewed by the SC, so it isn’t in effect.
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: no hes not
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: is he?
[2008/07/19 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if the SC does not veto the bill…
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: I would like us to do three things
[2008/07/19 9:43] Moon Adamant: i’d prefer a qualified opinion, if you don’t mind
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: all be still please
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it wasnt legislation
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: hush
[2008/07/19 9:43] MT Lundquist: how can the sc question a bill within the constitution?
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: let’s get the queue of items clear, hm?
—-
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: here is what I think we need to do, in this order
[2008/07/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: please listen, then RA members only, please critique it
[2008/07/19 9:44] MT Lundquist: sorry i need an update please
[2008/07/19 9:44] MT Lundquist: as i missed the start due to rl issues
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: 1. Listen to any RA member objections to proceeding with opening nominations for a replacement. Gwyn may already have one
[2008/07/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: chippies
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: 🙂 chippies – I’m jealous – now that I know WHAT they are
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: 2…
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: 2. Hear any other relevant comments prior to nominations
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: 3. Take nominations – I know of two so far
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: 4. Vote
[2008/07/19 9:45] MT Lundquist: i’m afraid i’m not up to speed on this
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: now: can we do those 4 things in that order, RA members? SOund OK?
[2008/07/19 9:45] MT Lundquist: can i have an update please
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: MT: Pip resigned … so vacancy …
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: so first any rulemongering tricks 🙂 then elections if we can
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: got it?
[2008/07/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for the order of discussion on 1.
[2008/07/19 9:46] You: on to rulemong – er – procedural ojections then 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:46] You: Gwyn you had something?
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmpf.
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sure.
—-
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All things that the RA does is either a) legislation or b) constitutional amendments.
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In both cases, the SC has to review them before they officially are approved as such.
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the SC has an internal procedure:
[2008/07/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i didnt know that
[2008/07/19 9:47] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens and will respond in due course
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which to the best of my knowledge was never revoked)
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If any but of legislation approved by the RA
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is not flagged by any member of the SC in 48 hours after the transcript/journal/minutes of the RA are published
[2008/07/19 9:47] MT Lundquist: so can we even discuss this if the decision on the bill is under review
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then the legislation gets approved automatically.
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, MT
[2008/07/19 9:48] You: let’sd let Gwyn finish first — expeditiously, please
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the objection.
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One member of the SC has indeed flagged the RA’s decision to remove the Chancellor Alexicon Kurka from his office for review.
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now two things happen.
[2008/07/19 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) A SC meeting is called, and the SC can decide to veto the bill, or resubmit it to the RA again, or do nothing.
[2008/07/19 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) No SC meeting is called, but the Dean overrules the request for reviewing the bill
[2008/07/19 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: dont we have to wait then?
[2008/07/19 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: darn
[2008/07/19 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) No SC meeting is called AND the Dean doesn’t call a meeting. In that case, the bill NEVER becomes a law.
[2008/07/19 9:49] You: Gwyn.
[2008/07/19 9:49] You: Can we move from recitation of alleged SC procedure to what YOU believe the RA can or cannot do, please?
[2008/07/19 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: tartie rose
[2008/07/19 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the RA can ignore whatever they please, but they will need to face the SC’s wrath afterwards 😉
[2008/07/19 9:50] MT Lundquist: what no sc meeting ever
[2008/07/19 9:50] MT Lundquist: ??
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: (prin, no ill-meant personal remarks please)
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: Gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: You have not objected to our proposed actions 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: well she looks quite different today, i meant it not bad jamie
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: I acknowledge your fear of the SC’s wrath 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:50] MT Lundquist: i object
[2008/07/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i do too
[2008/07/19 9:51] MT Lundquist: on the basis that the last bill is before the SC
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So from the constitutional point of view, we never removed Alex as Chancellor, since the SC did not approve the bill… yet… and we shouldn’t be electing a new one.
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: OK — hang on 🙂 MT let’s get to you in a sec
[2008/07/19 9:51] MT Lundquist: for a decision as to its legality
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree with gwyneth
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: heh heh
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: You two in cahoots two weeks in a row?
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: so we just have to wait jamie, you are so impatient
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly, I’d say we wait for the SC.
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: no we really love each other, but moon isnt keen
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: Let’s see if we can get a restatement for clarity
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: MT either
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: I am addressing Gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: I have some simple questions
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: oh
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: I will ask for RA member comments after that 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m finished for now…
[2008/07/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: are we in cahoots gwyeniie
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No comments 😉
[2008/07/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙁
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: Gwyn: it is your view that as soon as the SC flagged the appeal, Alexi was restored as chancellor?
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No,
[2008/07/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: she didnt say that jamie
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the other way round
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: 🙂 and I didn’t ask you, Prin
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: please explain Gwyn
[2008/07/19 9:53] You: in nice little nonlawyer words please
[2008/07/19 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bills we pass don’t get automatically approved, Jamie. We have always to wait 48 hours to see if any member of the SC flags them for review or not.
[2008/07/19 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: ty cindy!
[2008/07/19 9:53] You: 🙂 so it is your view as a former SC dean and all that, that no RA act has force for 48 hours?
[2008/07/19 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So a decision made today (assuming we’d publish the transcript today) would never enter in force before Monday
[2008/07/19 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s how it works 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey, much better than before… the RA used to wait weeks or months 😀
[2008/07/19 9:54] You: 🙂 I do not need to comment on that polar view as it may not affect us today 🙂 I encourage the next RA to find out whether the SC in fact has the zen-like power claimed, and define it with some specificity 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:54] Flyingroc Chung: used to be the SC had to actively approve a bill before it became law
[2008/07/19 9:54] You: in the meantime
[2008/07/19 9:54] You: yes FR – and that CHANGED 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, yes 🙂 Now they can sleep in peace if nothing untoward happens 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] You: so – Gwyn – let’s go with your theory 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘theory’ pfft
[2008/07/19 9:55] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/07/19 9:55] You: if so, then what was the effect of our electing Pip at the behest of you and others?
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA can approve whatever they please, Jamie
[2008/07/19 9:55] You: (All nonnormative descriptions of the legal rules are theory until proven, and people can disagree)
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean we can abolish the Constitution if we wish to vote on that
[2008/07/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: Sorry Prin, and thx, this IS taking some time, but I think we’d better get Gwyn’s full view first, and understand if we wish to subscribe to it 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, if the SC flags any of our decisions for review before the 48 hour period is passed… well, the bill doesn’t become a law
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we COULD technically elect a new Chancellor today.
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: Gwyn. What was the effect in your view of our election of Pip?
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: last week
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, it would be up to the SC to see if that makes sense or not, and tell us before Monday
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The election of Pip wasn’t validated
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: if flagged for appeal, and only if then 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since the removal of Alex as Chancellor is pending review…
[2008/07/19 9:57] You: ah? our acts require positive validation, even if not appealed?
[2008/07/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I mean, we can’t have two Chancellors 😉
[2008/07/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: seems we should wait then .. the citizens were not happy that we didnt let them have an opportunity to have ppl say they wanted to be running for chancellor
[2008/07/19 9:57] MT Lundquist: thats true
[2008/07/19 9:57] MT Lundquist: would be a mess
[2008/07/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: you know what i mean.. i think we need to give notice
[2008/07/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: and let ppl say they are interested in running.. thats what they were mad about we didnt tell them we have ppl that can run if they want
[2008/07/19 9:57] You: 🙂 here’s my last question for RA member and rule-expert Gwyn: Who is chancellor right now in your view?
[2008/07/19 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now? Alex, since the SC hasn’t met yet
[2008/07/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lets wait a week
[2008/07/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so he was in a huff over nothing!
[2008/07/19 9:58] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/07/19 9:58] You: OK – so – would it be incorrect in your view, gwyn, to repeal an act that is pending appeal? Or are we free to moot a pending appeal?
[2008/07/19 9:58] You: (My chat with SOME current SC members *suggests* that mooting it might not be illegal)
[2008/07/19 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either the SC passes our bill, and Pip becomes Chancellor (until this morning when he resigns); or the SC veto’es/resubmits the bill, and we might have a second chance to vote on a new Chancellor; or the SC does nothing and, well, the thing fades away in the Void of Unpassed Bills 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: moon raised her hand jamie
[2008/07/19 9:59] Moon Adamant: i can wait
[2008/07/19 9:59] You: yes. And MT before her, and you afer that Prin
[2008/07/19 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my view, Jamie, it’s fine to repeal an act that is pending appeal.
[2008/07/19 9:59] You: Any more from you, Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did that in the past actually…. so I see no problem with that. It becomes a political statement. 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:00] You: waiting for you to finish … Then I have MT, the Prin, then Moon
[2008/07/19 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s all I guess…
—-
[2008/07/19 10:00] MT Lundquist: simply i object to playing with bills until they have gone through due process i.e. the SC
[2008/07/19 10:00] Jamie Palisades asks MT if he still wants to speak this time – noting we have no motion yet and are talking procedure
[2008/07/19 10:01] MT Lundquist: i therefore object to anything else at this stage
[2008/07/19 10:01] MT Lundquist: i want us to wait for the SC
[2008/07/19 10:01] MT Lundquist: if its needed I will make a motion that we wait for the sc decision
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: not yet 🙂 chance for that in a sec
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: thanks
[2008/07/19 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: I think its important that we let them rule on this
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: Prin? your turn?
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: (and then Moon)
[2008/07/19 10:03] You: anything from you for now Prin?
[2008/07/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i think its really important that .. we let the SC rule.. i mean
[2008/07/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: with all thts been said in the forums and all, its a shame to not let them do thier thing.. and let the checks and balances be in place
[2008/07/19 10:04] You: OK. Moon (thx for patience)
[2008/07/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: let democracy run its course .. also
[2008/07/19 10:04] You: oops – sorry Prin, let me know when done – 2 mins limit please
[2008/07/19 10:04] Rose Springvale raises hand quietly
[2008/07/19 10:04] Moon Adamant: oh, just a simple comment
[2008/07/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: sok
[2008/07/19 10:04] You: Ok: moon, then rose
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: if as shown here, there is no de jure bill to remove Alex from offcie untill the SC decides
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: and there appears to be a will to wait the SC decision
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: then Alex should be reinstated in office
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: not only dde facto
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: as also de jure
[2008/07/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: see gwyns comments he never left
[2008/07/19 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: how can he be reinstated if he indeed never was removed
[2008/07/19 10:06] You: let’s let speakers finish please
[2008/07/19 10:06] Moon Adamant: thus invalidating any election for chancellor until the new RA is seated or the SC confirms the bill, whatever happens first
[2008/07/19 10:06] You: more, Moon?
[2008/07/19 10:06] Moon Adamant: any election*
[2008/07/19 10:06] Moon Adamant: no, finished, mr. LRA
[2008/07/19 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but wont that depend on what the SC decides?
[2008/07/19 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: if they indeed remove then .. well
[2008/07/19 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then it’s back to the RA to find a replacement, I guess 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: Rose is next
[2008/07/19 10:07] Rose Springvale: ready?
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: go pls
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: (I’m in the queue after that and will ask for others when Rose is done)
[2008/07/19 10:07] Rose Springvale: It seems to me that we are looking to the SC to resolve an issue that appears to be a political question, and withing the purview of the RA
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: resolve or affirm
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: simply that the RA ahs the power to vote
[2008/07/19 10:08] Rose Springvale: and as a matter of policy, it seems to me that the RA is supposed to be representing the people
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: :((
[2008/07/19 10:08] You: (let us know when done please Rose)
[2008/07/19 10:08] Rose Springvale: So personally, i’d like to see the RA withdraw is motion to remove the chancellor
[2008/07/19 10:09] Rose Springvale: as both a representation of our community, and out of fairness. I’d rather the RA do its work than wait for the SC to slap its hands
[2008/07/19 10:09] Rose Springvale: done
[2008/07/19 10:09] Sonja Strom holds up her hand
[2008/07/19 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 🙂 good point, Rose 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:09] Sonja Strom: yes, that is a good point
[2008/07/19 10:09] MT Lundquist: i’d simply like to follow the procedure set down
[2008/07/19 10:09] MT Lundquist: ie let the SC do its job
[2008/07/19 10:10] MT Lundquist: it has a job
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: Thanks. I have myself – but will wait for those who haven’t yet spoken – and Sonja – and then maybe MT and Gwyn again?
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: so
[2008/07/19 10:10] MT Lundquist: lets let it do it
[2008/07/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: It has been pointed out to me that so far as we can see, Alexicon has not requested that he be allowed to continue as Chancellor or be reinstated. Do we know that he in fact wants to be?
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: Sonja next please
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: 🙂 yes Sonja
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: I talked to him after learning of Pip’s resignation
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: he is willing to serve the remainder of his term and would like to do so.
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: I’d have to ask that, if I were planning to make that motion 🙂 …
[2008/07/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: then i may respond to his slander about me and MT
[2008/07/19 10:11] Arria Perreault: don’t forget that Alex’s team has some tasks to achieve too
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: he has lied in the forums
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: Prin
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: so if you want to reinstate him for that ok
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: you may speak against him WHEN and IF it’s pertinent 🙂 not yet
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we will talk about alexicons team arria
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: sonja? done?
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: and did I adequately answer?
[2008/07/19 10:12] You: sonja?
[2008/07/19 10:12] You: I will assume you are done then
[2008/07/19 10:12] You: in which case I have myself queued, and then will see if other RA members have more …
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: I was prepared to assume that we needed to fill Pip’s vacancy …
[2008/07/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not quite sure if I might speak afterwards and propose a motion…
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: .. which means a new election …
[2008/07/19 10:13] Sonja Strom: yes, my question was answered, thanks
[2008/07/19 10:13] MT Lundquist: and remember i have a motion pending to
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: (yes MT – trying to sort out what order we take ’em in and which all we have )
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: .. but Gwyn believes we cannot hold an election as it’s premature … so perhaps she has a suggestion about …
[2008/07/19 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/19 10:14] You: … what IS procedurally appropriate, smile. My own take is this:
[2008/07/19 10:14] You: We CAN act to do nothing (MT’s motion) .. and ..
[2008/07/19 10:15] You: We CAN act to ratify the view that Alexi is still chancellor (by reason of appeal) until replaced …
[2008/07/19 10:15] You: … which would mean he’s out if SC refuses appeal, as of that moment …
[2008/07/19 10:15] You: .. and we CAN also vote if we wish to select someone now CONTINGENTLY if and when a vacancy takes effect
[2008/07/19 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for her turn and asks for 2 minutes whenever that is appropriate.
[2008/07/19 10:16] MT Lundquist: can we do contingently?
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: .. the third seems safest to me, but let’s talk about it. I suggest Gwyn talk next, then we let MT’s motion come to the floor, than take one from Gwyn if MT’s doesn’t end the matter
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: sure MT
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: I just do not like the idea of it staying vacant
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, a short introduction… 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First… why did the RA vote to remove Alex from office?
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, because during the session of July 12,
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA could not validate that the Executive had any intention to follow its direct instructions to make payments
[2008/07/19 10:17] You: (me notes Gwyn’s clock is gone, uses his own)
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We tried a lot to figure out if people were paid or not
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We failed to find anyone who got a payment.
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2008/07/19 10:17] MT Lundquist: and they weren’t
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Executive DID make the payments.
[2008/07/19 10:17] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexicon
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To the last cent.
[2008/07/19 10:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Alex 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA didn’t know that, until 4 minutes after having voted.
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: after the bill was passed
[2008/07/19 10:18] Alexicon Kurka: hi all
[2008/07/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: hi alex 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my view, it was a problem of bad communication â€”
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: only two days and after twisteing his arm and binging him in here over and over
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor DID request the payments; the Treasurer DID make them
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: the money was paid AFTER the bill passed
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: AFTER
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: no on THURSDAY
[2008/07/19 10:18] Arria Perreault: only the payment
[2008/07/19 10:18] Arria Perreault: not the order
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point, MT & Prin, is that the Executive DID follow the orders. They didn’t refuse.
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: of the week after the final ulimatum
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/07/19 10:18] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: he had refused for ages
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: they didnt make the payment
[2008/07/19 10:18] You: all sto please
[2008/07/19 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: until he was threatened
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] MT Lundquist: the whole point is the payment
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They got a week to do so, and did the transfers about 168 hours after we’ve requested, take an hour or two.
[2008/07/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: Gwyn has asked for time, i think
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… well… my understanding is:
[2008/07/19 10:19] MT Lundquist: thats been pointed out to me by the EO about tier fees
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: I want Gwyn to be able to finish uninterrupted FOR the SHORT remainder of her time please
[2008/07/19 10:19] MT Lundquist: its the payment that matters
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is removing a Chancellor from office because he refuses to obey the RA’s laws.
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: MT you are out of order please wait your turn
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is to remove a Chancellor because of bad communication!
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, we voted on the removal because from RA’s PoV the Executive did NOT act
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: or perhaps imcompetency
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: in*
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the Executive just failed to inform us of their intentions… and did things *slightly* delayed.
[2008/07/19 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: he didnt for six months
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: slighlty
[2008/07/19 10:20] You: (your 4 minutes, twice what you asked for, is over in 30 secs)
[2008/07/19 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: oh come on .. slightly.. six months!
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: 6 months
[2008/07/19 10:20] You: excuse me
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, Prin, the bill we passed set a deadline: july 12
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the past 6 months were a bit irrelevant
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SO
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: and it was missed
[2008/07/19 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: that was an ultimatum.. with LOTs of other things that he did wrong
[2008/07/19 10:20] You: are we carousing or governing?
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My motion is to do two things:
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and may i reind you LLEWLY, miss…. that when i told you i got paid.. YOU SAID.. my vote remains…
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: (MT and Prin please make your comments WHEN we are debating the two motions we will have, and WHEN they are pertinent.)
[2008/07/19 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake!
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so what changed.. CSDF didnt like you voting your mind
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: Prin
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: you are out of order
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: ok im done
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want time to answer later then.. ok ?
[2008/07/19 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Repeal the removal from office voted last week, since the assumptions that we based it on to make a vote simply are not correct.
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: if there are no more rude interrutions I will wait for gwyn to finish typing her motion before anything else.
[2008/07/19 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn is basically ignoring interruptions; I’m good at it 😉
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: Gwyn. Is that it?
[2008/07/19 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Mr. LRA, it is 🙂 ty verymuch!
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: thank you. Here is where we are
[2008/07/19 10:22] Sonja Strom: I’m sorry, what was number 1)?
—-
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: I plan to take up MT’s motion now – it came first
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: THEN
[2008/07/19 10:23] You: We will restate Gwyn’s motion anf take it up IF it has not been mooted by MTs
* * *

[2008/07/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake!
[2008/07/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A reprimand is not even a bill, it’s a slap on their wrists saying: “you guys were naughty! tsk! forcing us to do bad decisions” 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:23] You: any RA member see a problem with doing those 2 things?
[2008/07/19 10:23] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/07/19 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: LOTS
[2008/07/19 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: cos i disagree totally with what gwyen said
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: OK but 🙂 can we vote on MT’s motion?
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. i got my pay ment four minutes after we voted and i IMd gwyen and she said.. so what i would still vote to do this the same.. answer me why its different now gwyen
[2008/07/19 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote against it, then 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: im andswering
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: and thn you can speak AGAINST Gwyn’s
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a lot to say about what gwyen said
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: ill wait
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: MT just for our record, can you restate your motion please?
[2008/07/19 10:24] MT Lundquist: i would like to hear prins augument
[2008/07/19 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too.
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: once it’s made, yes
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: what is your motion. please?
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i just asked gwyen a qustions first i wanna know that
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: and what I do not want
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: is rambling chat without a point
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: so
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: where
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: is
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: the
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: motion?
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: what am i supoosed to do
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: MT? do you or do you not have one?
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he wanted me to talk first then give his motion
[2008/07/19 10:25] MT Lundquist: the motion is
[2008/07/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: wait a bit Princess
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 10:26] MT Lundquist: yes i do want to hear prin first
[2008/07/19 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: this is very important
[2008/07/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: sighs
[2008/07/19 10:26] You: OK 🙂 no motion is on the table. Prin, 4 minutes 🙂 only fair, Gwyn got that
[2008/07/19 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: when i got my payment four mins after the RA voted fro MANY other reasons than what she said btw
[2008/07/19 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: and… i said to gwyen i got it
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: she said omg.. its still very late..a nd i would still vote to keep him out .. i would not change my vote
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: why gwyen?
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: why did you say that then
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: now you changed your mind?
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: and if we are voting to repeal what we did, then there are MANY other reasons that he needed to be removed.. and he LIED on the forum about me and MT and that HAS to be fully explored i think before we repeal anything
[2008/07/19 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen can you answer me?
[2008/07/19 10:28] You: Prin? First: are you done?
[2008/07/19 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I will, in two minutes 🙂 )
[2008/07/19 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: why did you say i would vote that anyway.. even if you got your payment
[2008/07/19 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: well ok .. lets go to the beginning.. alexicon .. has said in the forums he asked me months ago to find out about a transfer guided tour..
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: because he ahs misunderstood his directive about archives.. this is no transfer.. but its not a unique item
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: it can be purchansed at any time
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: unlike a unique building
[2008/07/19 10:29] You: (90 seconds remain.)
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: so one he didnt have any reason to do that .. and he only asked me when he was only confronted by us that he handt dont it
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: also he was making decisions about the events person based on ARIAs lies
[2008/07/19 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and he made a volutneer for CDS suffer publically because he had not done his job
[2008/07/19 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: also he tried to get us to py a him for things he did for us.. and really made a mockery out of our budget
[2008/07/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: are we being transcripted?
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: he didnt come back with the answers we asked, he didnt get the report on the website to us… like he was supposed to .. there were tons of other things.. starting at the beginning .. when he had
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: toget note cards out in the LM givers.. he didnt do it for three months
[2008/07/19 10:31] You: (Moon – yes) (Prin – finish up please)
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: he didnt let the volunteers do their gjobs they wanted to do
[2008/07/19 10:31] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Stopping 2 animations
[2008/07/19 10:31] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Done
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i have tons more that i cannot just do off the cuff and i move that we wait til we get ALL the facts to do anything else please
[2008/07/19 10:32] MT Lundquist: the motion is to allow the SC to rule on the legitimacy of the bill to remove the Chancellor last week before taking any other action in that regard
[2008/07/19 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: sedcond
[2008/07/19 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: second MTs r motion
[2008/07/19 10:32] MT Lundquist: before the RA takes any other action
[2008/07/19 10:32] Arria Perreault: we will lose time …
[2008/07/19 10:32] Arria Perreault: is it your goal?
[2008/07/19 10:32] You: MT – I think we’re there
[2008/07/19 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well he had six months
[2008/07/19 10:32] You: Arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] MT Lundquist: we aready did
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: please
[2008/07/19 10:33] MT Lundquist: 6 months
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: LMAO that is the funniest thing i heeard ever arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] Arria Perreault: we have to achieve some tasks
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah you had six months
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: MT:
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ffs
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: we have a motion and a second – and you have restated it just now
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so make lies about bells arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: youliar
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: CHILDREN
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: knock it off
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: all of you
[2008/07/19 10:33] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Stopping 0 animations
[2008/07/19 10:33] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Done
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: No more personal attacks please
[2008/07/19 10:33] Arria Perreault: your only problem is that we did not work for your projects …
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: when she had a death in the family you lied about her to alexicon and he said ” i expected that of bells”
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: how dare you
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: Arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: you too
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: you liar
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: she was asking you for months to have a meeting
[2008/07/19 10:34] Arria Perreault: we were servant of the CDS
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: I need to bring a liittle focus to this
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: go to IM arria
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the crux jamie
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: he appointed bells and actually arria is the one that didnt do what alexicon said
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and then makes a lie about bells
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: no, this is a government meeting, unless all of you insist on making it a circus 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: are we still being transcripted? 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope so moon
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: now
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: if I still have any ear from the RA members
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: here is what I would like to do
[2008/07/19 10:34] Arria Perreault: TP, I think you are expressing many things of the whole term and not only the problem of the payment ….
[2008/07/19 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves*
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: its about it all arria
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: … first see if any RA member who has NOT SPOKEN has any comment ON MTs MOTION
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: it si NOT just the payment issue
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: prin
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: that is NOT what the only reason was
[2008/07/19 10:35] Arria Perreault: the removal was only on this …
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: just a sec while I change groups 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sorry it boiled downt o that
[2008/07/19 10:35] Arria Perreault: you are making a package now
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: it is arria
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: its everything
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: it was never just one thing
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: ok 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: ……
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: i WILL EJECT THE NEXT PERSON WHO SPEAKS OUT OF TURN
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: ..
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: any questions?
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: thank you 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: now
[2008/07/19 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: FR you have not spoken on MT’s motion. Do you wish to?
[2008/07/19 10:37] You: I will take that as a no.
[2008/07/19 10:37] You: Sonja: you have anythign to add?
[2008/07/19 10:37] You: I will take that as a no
[2008/07/19 10:37] Flyingroc Chung: w00t
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: We have MT’s seconded motion, which if it passes should close debate for today..
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: it;s in the record above, go look.
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: Members please state your vote, I vote nay.
[2008/07/19 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/07/19 10:38] Sonja Strom: Sorry, was reading back in the chat.
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: np
[2008/07/19 10:38] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain, but I’d like permission to make a short statement why.
[2008/07/19 10:39] You: after the vote – and short
[2008/07/19 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes Mr LRA)
[2008/07/19 10:39] You: I need votes from FR and Sonja
[2008/07/19 10:40] Sonja Strom: I’m sorry, but I can’t remember the exact wording of this motion — that is why I was reading back in the chat.
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: [11:12] MT Lundquist: the motion is to allow the SC to rule on the legitimacy of the bill to remove the Chancellor last week before taking any other action in that regard
[2008/07/19 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: in other words, no act to replace, reinstate, whatever
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: may we please wait until FR and sonja have voted
[2008/07/19 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: I vote no.
[2008/07/19 10:41] Sonja Strom: I feel that the RA should make its own decisions, and so will vote against this motion.
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: then Gwyn and Prin indicated a desire to … say … more
[2008/07/19 10:41] Sonja Strom: I also vote no.
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: thanks. FR?
[2008/07/19 10:42] Sonja Strom: he voted no
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: ah just saw it. OK.
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: Now
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: Motion fails 2-3-0
—-
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: but note, that doesn’t mean we will act
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: so next motion will be Gwyn’s
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: AFTER a ONE MINUTE statemetrn which each of Gwyn and Prin have requsted
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, MT’s motion would allow Alex to continue to be Chancellor (until the next term; or the SC meeting; whatever comes first), which is also what the CSDF wishes: having Alex finish his term. However, there would remain an unsolved issue: the RA would not admit politically that the decision made last week was based on incomplete information; and it would ignore the citizen’s wishes, which is something the RA *should* do, before everything. It would push the political decision to the Scientific Council, which is not a political entity, to make that decision for us. Thus, although the end result might be the same (Alex remains Chancellor), politically, I’d still prefer to “take another action” (and not merely inactivity).
[2008/07/19 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 second 😉
[2008/07/19 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you.
[2008/07/19 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i move that we revote MTs motion
[2008/07/19 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think fr and sonja totally understood
[2008/07/19 10:43] You: 🙂 have have abother motion pending first
[2008/07/19 10:43] You: actually, based on my IMs I think everyone DOES understand
[2008/07/19 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: well i move that we vote again
[2008/07/19 10:43] You: Gwy? you are done? Then Prin, if you wish to make a short statement BEFORE we bring Gwyn’s motion back up, this is the time.
[2008/07/19 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: that lets alexicon stay chancellor
[2008/07/19 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Prin should not tell what other people are thinking; that applies to her comments to me as well.
[2008/07/19 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well you never answered my question gwyen
[2008/07/19 10:44] Sonja Strom feels intimidated by the presence of a monarch waving a sword in the air
[2008/07/19 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry.. i was threatened by the LRA
[2008/07/19 10:44] You: Ahem
[2008/07/19 10:44] You: unfortunately
[2008/07/19 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, I asked the LRA for some time to answer that, but I guess there are more urgent things to discuss.
[2008/07/19 10:44] You: it is the job of a meeting presiding officer to keep order
[2008/07/19 10:44] Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
[2008/07/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: hi Pip 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: you lot do not always make this easy, sorry
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: now
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: Prin did you want to make a statement before we vote on Gwyn’s motion?
[2008/07/19 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i have my time to asking again to please have gwyen answer my quetion
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: sounds good 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i want gwyn to answer my question
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: Over to you Gwyn
[2008/07/19 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure. I’m sorry, I haven’t prepared the answer lol
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: just say the truth
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: that would be nice :_)))
[2008/07/19 10:46] You: (I will next ask for comments from anyone who has NOT spoken – then paste in Gwyn’s motion – then call for the votes.)
[2008/07/19 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it’s easy to understand. I have no problem in admitting that I voted on the removal of the Chancellor based on a lack of information that wasn’t publicly available at the moment we voted.
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: no gwyen
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats not the question
[2008/07/19 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So once it was clear that the vote was based on incomplete/incorrect assumptions, I changed my mind.
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what exactly changed then
[2008/07/19 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to change my mind when learning new things, Prin 😉
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: exactly in not a book
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what changed you are not answering me
[2008/07/19 10:47] You: *sigh* Prin you can ask people quetsions, but you cannot MAKE them answer the way you want, so I will take that as the answer Gwyn chose to give, and consider THAT 2 minute thread at THIS meeting completed.
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: you knew then that he authorized it……. and you said i would have still voted to kick him out
[2008/07/19 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I learned that the Executive had no intention to ignore the RA’s bill, as we assumed on July 12. They just never told us so.
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what do you mean by that
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: explain
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: Forgive the personal observation, but why don’t you two go fight in the SC, if you must continue this, hm? This is the RA, we have business to conduct
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: you knew he had authorized payment cos i got paid
[2008/07/19 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ONE payment.
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to knwo my answer to my question
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: two
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: mine
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: this is not going to be a debate 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: bells
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: that was more than two
[2008/07/19 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bells too?
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ill shut up
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: ..
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: last warning 🙂 not kidding
[2008/07/19 10:49] You: were there any comments from people who have NOT speak who wish ONE minute to speak BEFORE we vote on Gwyn’s motion?
[2008/07/19 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand in sheer fright
[2008/07/19 10:49] Sonja Strom: I would like to say that I personally feel the same way about the current situation as Gwyneth.
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: thank you Sonja
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: any others who have not spoken yet?
[2008/07/19 10:50] MT Lundquist: i do wish to speak
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: if not, Prin, we are going to vote now. It is my view that you and Gwyn each have spoken – at length – and had plenty of time to debate.
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: so I suggest we hear MT and then vote
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: unless FR has something too
[2008/07/19 10:51] You: MT?
[2008/07/19 10:51] MT Lundquist: well i’m concerned that we are about to make a bad situation worse
[2008/07/19 10:52] MT Lundquist: its bad that Alexicon, someone I personally supported did not prove to be a good chancellor
[2008/07/19 10:52] MT Lundquist: that he failed to do his job
[2008/07/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: are we still being transcripted?
[2008/07/19 10:52] MT Lundquist: worse that he wanted to take money personally out of CDS which reminded me of the Ulrika history
[2008/07/19 10:52] You: (please let MT finish)
[2008/07/19 10:52] You: (it is in fact completely OK for legislators to criticise the executive on nonpersonal matters)
[2008/07/19 10:53] You: (even if others disagree)
[2008/07/19 10:53] MT Lundquist: I personally spoke in skype to him at length to persuade him to drop that
[2008/07/19 10:53] MT Lundquist: so i find myself disappointed and let down that he then didnt do his job
[2008/07/19 10:53] You: done?
[2008/07/19 10:53] MT Lundquist: and now dissembles
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: and tries to change history
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: there are mony facts that have not been aired
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: we
[2008/07/19 10:54] You: (30 seconds please)
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: I can do that given time
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: i just think that CDS is best served by not dragging all this through the mud
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: but if needs be then I will
[2008/07/19 10:55] MT Lundquist: if you insist to pressing this then i request more time to present the case properly
[2008/07/19 10:55] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:55] MT Lundquist: otherwise if its presented after the fact any decision now could look foolish and premature
[2008/07/19 10:55] You: MT, we will have a motion, and before the vote, I think we shoud take your request as a motion to extend time for debate
[2008/07/19 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand tooo
[2008/07/19 10:55] You: so to do this properly
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: hang on 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to extend the debate
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: MT has moved to extend debvate in Gwyn’s motion for 15 minutes before we vote. If you do not pass it, I will run the vote now. SO this will be about: vote now, or vote in 15 minutes. Got it?
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: And can I have a second for MT’s procedural motion?
[2008/07/19 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: you have one sir
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: ah good gwyn thatnks 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyn did it
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: Here’s my view 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: I suppose that in a legislature I should not be surprised when people want to speak at length to describe, or spin, their own positions, but it DOES NOT make running a meeting easy. I would be very grateful if all would focus now on ACTION ITEMS not oration. If you want to make speeches, POST them. Of go attend the SC meeting and maybe THEY want to hear you 🙂 For my part I think the Forums already are …
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: CLOGGED with self serving speeches and rudeness and I am disappointed.
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: so I will vote no 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: any other discussion of MT’s motion to extend debate?
[2008/07/19 10:57] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol
[2008/07/19 10:58] You: oops – OK we can go to vote too: Members please state their vote: I vote nay, got MT’s aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] Sonja Strom: I will support the motion to extend time for MT to explain his position. aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] You: Prin? FR? Gywn?
[2008/07/19 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that MT has explained himself properly already; so I vote nay on extending the debate.
[2008/07/19 10:58] You: Pirn?
[2008/07/19 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: motion passes 4-2-0
—-
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: so we will debate Gwyn’s motion 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: extend the debate .. but not to say bad things about alex.. to tal k about what WE did wrong and why we are doing this
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: we have rules for this sort of thing
[2008/07/19 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ok
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: first just to be helpful, note this:
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: [11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake! [11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Repeal the removal from office voted last week, since the assumptions that we based it on to make a vote simply are not correct.
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: That’s what we are debating
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: Now
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: I suggest 2 minute limits, and noone gets to repeat until others are done – sop if someone has a 6 minute speech they can doe it in 3 parts
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: hm?
[2008/07/19 11:01] Sonja Strom: sounds good
[2008/07/19 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to speak a bit, but I’ll let someone speak first this time.
[2008/07/19 11:01] You: not hearing any obj’
[2008/07/19 11:01] You: I suggest MT speak first, if Gwyn as motion makes does not wish to, then let’s take hands from RA members. After i round of the RA let’s see if we have nonRA members
[2008/07/19 11:01] You: MT? 120 secs
[2008/07/19 11:01] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/07/19 11:02] MT Lundquist: well as i said before i know there are other facts that have yet to be surfaced that raise concerns about Alexicons position as chancellor
[2008/07/19 11:03] MT Lundquist: that time needs to be given for those facts to be debated if we are intent on persuing this course of action in Gwyns motion
[2008/07/19 11:03] MT Lundquist: therefore I believe we should wait , not be hasty, then act when all facts are presented
[2008/07/19 11:04] MT Lundquist: I suggest therefore that we wait until next weeks meeting to have heard all the facts before deciding
[2008/07/19 11:04] You: (time – finish up for this round pls?)
[2008/07/19 11:04] MT Lundquist: the case needs to be made carefully not in a rushed manner at this meeting
[2008/07/19 11:05] MT Lundquist: i wish to amend Gwyns bill that we wait one week before voting
[2008/07/19 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/19 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It won’t be a friendly, but we can vote on the amendment perhaps?
[2008/07/19 11:06] Flyingroc Chung: does this RA actually have another session?
[2008/07/19 11:06] You: next week 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:06] You: OK – MT – let;’s see hmm – checking motion
[2008/07/19 11:06] Rose Springvale raises hand to be added to queue if appropriate
[2008/07/19 11:06] You: so, MT, you move to amend Gwyn;s motion to delay it for one week, basically?
[2008/07/19 11:07] You: because procedurally, it;s easier to just vote it down and let her er-arise it
[2008/07/19 11:07] MT Lundquist: yes to allow the facts to be presented
[2008/07/19 11:07] MT Lundquist: all the facts
[2008/07/19 11:07] MT Lundquist: and i would also request that all parties be asked to agree that chat logs be approved for use and not be against TOS
[2008/07/19 11:08] You: Not trying to be dificult here, but I think the right way procedurally is just to vote it down and say you will consider next week. If you disagree, could you please type in her motion, as you wish to amend it, in the form you want it amendmed?
[2008/07/19 11:08] MT Lundquist: chat logs will prove interesting
[2008/07/19 11:08] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi raises hand
[2008/07/19 11:09] MT Lundquist: basically add that the votes for 1 and 2 be next weeks date
[2008/07/19 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. that’s a separate thing, though, and overruling LL’s ToS might need some time to ask LL if that’s possible or not anyway…
[2008/07/19 11:09] You: MT, I have indicated that I have procedurally rejected your amendment, since I can’t frame it as an action. And suggest you either restate it or we just go on.
[2008/07/19 11:09] MT Lundquist: not overruling LLs tos
[2008/07/19 11:10] MT Lundquist: that alex arria etc alow us to use chat logs where appropriate in support of the case
[2008/07/19 11:10] You: Um – chat logs – interestuing – but IS that part of ANYONE’s motion? Maybe I missed something?
[2008/07/19 11:10] MT Lundquist: everyone is asked to agree
[2008/07/19 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh sorry
[2008/07/19 11:10] MT Lundquist: if they dont well…….
[2008/07/19 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale thinks all such logs should be approved by all parties after viewing them, as they are so easy to alter
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale: if relevant at all
[2008/07/19 11:11] You: OK … “you are here” … I have rejected MT’s proposed amendment as not well formed and suggest he just vote no on Gwyns. We are partway through the 15 minute period. Does anyother RA member wish to speak, before I look for other speakers?
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed rose
[2008/07/19 11:11] MT Lundquist: yes we could do that
[2008/07/19 11:11] MT Lundquist: but we need time to do that
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale does not agree they are relevant
[2008/07/19 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a prepared statement, it won’t take 120 seconds 😉
[2008/07/19 11:11] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale and is out of order, sorry
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: eject
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/19 11:12] You: good. Go Gwyn – and others please afterwards indicate if you have comments
[2008/07/19 11:12] MT Lundquist: oh they are relevant inmy opinion and i’m sure when seen in others to
[2008/07/19 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My motion is actually simple to understand. The RA *can* make mistakes; and often *will* make them; specially if they are done on incomplete/erroneous information. Prin claimed a bit ago that after all a few people had been paid before we voted last week (I was just aware of one payment, not several). Miscommunication â€” or withholding critical information â€” makes the RA do unpopular decisions. Now, in my mind, my vote last week was just because of ONE thing: the Executive’s failure to address payments. We have, after a week, found out that it was not so: the Executive had followed their internal procedures to make payments, and made them as well, to the last cent. If it did “4 minutes late” or a few days before our vote, that’s irrelevant: the point is, they *did* comply with the RA’s demands. However, in my mind, they also were a bit careless in not informing us about their intent, thus forcing us to make a bad decision. I thus move to add a reprimand to the Executive â€” please don’t withhold
[2008/07/19 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: critical information from the RA, when we need it to decide; but, naturally enough, the decision made last week was done on wrong assumptions made at that time, and I move that we void our decision, and not wait for the SC. As for discussing the Executive’s performance this term, I’m perfectly all right to discuss it on a SEPARATE session and a different motion; the bill last week was just because for the lack of payment. We should separate both issues here. Thanks, that’s all.
[2008/07/19 11:12] Jamie Palisades reads
[2008/07/19 11:12] You: any other RA members in queue?
[2008/07/19 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And for the record, I reject MT’s amendment to my motion as ‘friendly’, but we can put it to the vote if the RA wishes.
[2008/07/19 11:12] You: not hearing any
[2008/07/19 11:13] You: and gwyn, I have ruled his motion is procedurally untenable, since the proper way to dispose of it is just to vote no to yours. (I can be overruled if the RA likes)
[2008/07/19 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i am
[2008/07/19 11:13] You: OK no other RA member comments yet – so –
[2008/07/19 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/19 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: now i need more time, cos she has lied again about me
[2008/07/19 11:13] You: I will make a quick one, or try, then ask for non RA members – and come back to you prin, got it
[2008/07/19 11:13] Sonja Strom holds up her hand
[2008/07/19 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sorry she says i told her that ppl got paid before i didnt say that.. i said we got paid four minutes after we removed alexicon and i gave her the notecard with things she coudl verify to prove it
[2008/07/19 11:14] You: …
[2008/07/19 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: then she said when i told her that
[2008/07/19 11:14] You: queue is:
[2008/07/19 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: she would have voted that anyway
[2008/07/19 11:14] You: Prin wishes to finish (120 secs), then me, then Sonja, then we’ll see
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont really care what happnes here. I made my point. BUT.. think we should remove ourselves some of us….
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we do reprsent the public, but that doesnt mean we come in here.. unprepared.. vote and when they complain…….we go ok i reverse.. we need to do our homeweork better and stay on top of whats going on .. and if we had .. then six months in this wouldnt be happening.. let this be a lesson for future RAs to have more control and more preparation over what they are doing.. and MORE let the citizens also be more involved with their factions to let their reps KNOW how they feel ahead of time.. this is NOT ALEXICONS fault.. its everyones! RA .. and the citizens..those who yell after the fact and didnt get involved.. who helped alex? who helped us decide.. who offered him assistance.. i scrambled to get volunteers.. aside from arria that is… who else did that for him ? i hate that he is made a scape goat.. LORD knows i know more than anyone what that is like. but if we can learn from this .. all of us.. then we have a better CDS.. and i believe that is why every one of us is here.
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: . cos I am really amazed that RA members voted.. then when ppl complained they say oh i didnt knwo it all … well.. this has been going on for weeks.. and months whith him .. and no one apparently read the mintues .. who said they didnt know and also ……….
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: but i will say also again.. why does gwyen keep distorting facts with many words.. for people
[2008/07/19 11:15] Moon Adamant: my, you write fast
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: we got PAID AFTER THE VOTE
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: NOT BEFORE
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: why does she keep saying that
[2008/07/19 11:16] You: (hush Moon)
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: and when i told her we got paid after.. she said that ….
[2008/07/19 11:16] You: (30 secs prin)
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i would have voted that way anyhow
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: what changed? she never answered
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she knew alex had submitted if i got paid
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: but my big speach stands
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its OUT fault
[2008/07/19 11:17] You: (time, prin, finish up please)
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: alex is a scape goqat
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its gwyens
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its sonja
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its me
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its MT
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its jamie
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well brian
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its our falutlt too and the citizens
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: for not getting more invovlved
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: faster
[2008/07/19 11:17] You: please stop.
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and arria for holding out on bells
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:17] You: …
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: Queue is me, Sonja and then who ever has not yet spoken.
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: as for me: I generally agree with the second half of Gwyn’s reasoning, above. I respectfully disagree with MT’s suggestion that we would be rushed, if we acted today. …
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: some did not seem to feel we were rushed last week, and assured me that there had been plenty of time to investigate .. it’s all on the record. I believe we ERRED and SHOULD be quick to correct errors. Anything else I have to say on that is posted; viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1970
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: that’s it.
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: Sonja?
[2008/07/19 11:18] Sonja Strom: Jamie, what did you mean in saying “I have ruled his motion is procedurally untenatbel?” Should it be stated in another way that would be better?
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: 🙂 Sonja let me try to answer
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: MT wanted to amend gwyn’s motion to say this
[2008/07/19 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i need two weeks to read gwuens post alone
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: ‘…”Do gwyn’s motion next week not now”
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: (hush all please)
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: and sonja, that does not “work” as a meeting procedure
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: the right way to delay a motion is to table it, or vote against it, not amend it
[2008/07/19 11:19] Sonja Strom: ah, ok, so you did not mean Gwyn’s motion itself?
[2008/07/19 11:20] MT Lundquist: so i would argue jamie that voting no is not a proper way to handle my motion
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: correct sonja
[2008/07/19 11:20] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/19 11:20] Sonja Strom: thanks, done.
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: well may I make a constructive suggestion?
[2008/07/19 11:20] MT Lundquist: becuase i am asking for one weeks delay
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: can we take MT’s motion as a motion to close debate on this today, and bring it up next week?
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: that’d do it
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: hm?
[2008/07/19 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/19 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh. Not as ‘friendly’, but we can vote on it.
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: k _ let’s let Sonja finish first as she was in queue, then vote on THAT
[2008/07/19 11:21] Rose Springvale: grrr
[2008/07/19 11:21] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: (hush rose)
[2008/07/19 11:21] Rose Springvale raised her hand hours ago!
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: Sonja first please
[2008/07/19 11:21] Sonja Strom: sure, we can vote on MT’s motion to move this decision to next week.
[2008/07/19 11:21] Sonja Strom: I vote no.
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: (and Rose, a motion to close debate seems to me to be privileged – but if you were in queue already and I missed it, I apologize )
[2008/07/19 11:22] You: any objection to giving Rose 60 seconde first?
[2008/07/19 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/19 11:22] Rose Springvale: never mind
[2008/07/19 11:22] Rose Springvale: i don’t need it
[2008/07/19 11:22] You: kk
[2008/07/19 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None, I’d like to hear Rose too 😀
[2008/07/19 11:22] You: then let’s vote – to be specific – this is a vote to close debate and stop this item for a week
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: Members please state their vote. I vote nay. I note sonja votes nay.
[2008/07/19 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote nay.
[2008/07/19 11:23] Flyingroc Chung: I vote no
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: FR? Prin? MT?
[2008/07/19 11:23] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: OK.
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: motion failes 1-4-1
—-
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: debate continues
[2008/07/19 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: its two and a half hours now
[2008/07/19 11:24] You: I have only Rose in queue – others? WE are lmost out of the extended time
[2008/07/19 11:24] Rose Springvale withdraws.
[2008/07/19 11:24] You: OK 🙂 Vote sounds good to me
[2008/07/19 11:24] You: any other urgent desires to speak from anyone?
[2008/07/19 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent for a change…
[2008/07/19 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Gonta
[2008/07/19 11:25] You: right then – again –
[2008/07/19 11:25] You: [11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake! [11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Repeal the removal from office voted last week, since the assumptions that we based it on to make a vote simply are not correct.
[2008/07/19 11:25] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye.
[2008/07/19 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
[2008/07/19 11:25] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/19 11:25] MT Lundquist: is there two votes
[2008/07/19 11:25] MT Lundquist: or one
[2008/07/19 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One motion with two points, MT.
[2008/07/19 11:25] MT Lundquist: i want it clear
[2008/07/19 11:26] You: no – all as one, was the motion, i think
[2008/07/19 11:26] You: need votes from FR, Prin, MT
[2008/07/19 11:26] Flyingroc Chung: that facts have arisen since last week’s vote and claims that more are yet to be aired shows that we have been too hasty last week.
[2008/07/19 11:26] Flyingroc Chung: I vote aye
[2008/07/19 11:26] You: need two more votes please
[2008/07/19 11:27] Flyingroc Chung: we can take up removal again next week if we need to.
[2008/07/19 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed we can…
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: (correct, FR)
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: but we are still voting.
[2008/07/19 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:27] MT Lundquist: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: OK. Motion passes 4-0-2.
—-
[2008/07/19 11:27] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: Just a sec please 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: a few procedural notes.
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 1. I will notify SC and post it to forums
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 2. Whether that moots their curent appeal is up to them, not us.
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 3. I note Aleixcon is here. I confirm that you are chancellor and remain so, Alexi.
[2008/07/19 11:28] Moon Adamant applauds
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 4. We’re way over time so may have to push other items to next week.
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: and finally
[2008/07/19 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: assuming
[2008/07/19 11:28] Alexicon Kurka: thanks all
[2008/07/19 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: now what if?
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: no no
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: 5. No gloating, please.
[2008/07/19 11:29] MT Lundquist: assuming the sc doesnt appeal this vote
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: no i have a guestion
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: exactly so MT, correct
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: I have Moon, then Prin, OK?
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: its not true til the SC doesnt flag it
[2008/07/19 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s their prerrogative, yes.
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: so actually hes not chancellor now
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: can Moon speak first? she asked first
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: cos …well .. wait
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: hmm
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: I will respond to Prin after she speaks in turn 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: moon?
[2008/07/19 11:30] Moon Adamant: i actually was going to ask only, that after the vote, which was very clear, that the good names of the Executive branch would be cleared by a formal re-instament. Thank you.
[2008/07/19 11:30] You: OK. Prin?
[2008/07/19 11:30] You: (then me ) (and then anybody else should speak up, we’re almost done.)
[2008/07/19 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know i am thinking that if what we did last week doesnt stand til the SC is done
[2008/07/19 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: then how can this stand til the SC is done
[2008/07/19 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/19 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: so is he? or isnt he?
[2008/07/19 11:30] MT Lundquist: cleared now thats a whole new point Moon
[2008/07/19 11:30] MT Lundquist: they were just censured
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: Prin when you are done I will try an answer
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: and Gwyn will tell me why I am wrong 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 11:31] Sonja Strom raises her hand.
[2008/07/19 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: gywns also wrong a lot
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: sonja, after Prin and me
[2008/07/19 11:31] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: prin done?
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: kk then
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: here’s my take – good to spell it out, so thank you for asking Prin
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 1. the act which was appeal was last week’s removal
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 2. the replacement by Pip necessarily went with that, but is sort of irrelevant now
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 3. The SC appeal did SOMETHING (on which Gwyn and I might not agree) to put it on hold or make it reversible
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 4. But we have now REPEALED the removal by a vote here
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: 5. So it’s my guess the SC will decide it’s moot – but that’s their decision not ours – and people can go give them their own views
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: 6. This act TODAY
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: – a censure and a reinstatement –
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: can be appealed too
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: in which case
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: 1. its effectiveness can be thrown in to question – same deal as last week pretty much
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: but also
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: 2. That wouldn’t remove Alexi
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: because as of the SC acceptance of the last appeal he’s still in, until the SC acts
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: OK …
[2008/07/19 11:35] MT Lundquist: i disagree slightly alex
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: anyone have comments, or questions, or that, for now?
[2008/07/19 11:35] MT Lundquist: jamie sorry
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: np go for it
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: I welcome correctioms to the above
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: but I want us all to leave here with a common understanding (grin) if possible
[2008/07/19 11:35] MT Lundquist: if the SC uphold last weeks bill then casts down this weeks then we would have no chancellor
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: ah YES
[2008/07/19 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what if its flagged
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: I agree MT
[2008/07/19 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually don’t, but I’ll let MT finish his argument first.
[2008/07/19 11:36] MT Lundquist: thats it
[2008/07/19 11:36] You: MT, if they act dispositively, that could happen – basically they would need to reject appeal 1 and accept theoretical appeal 2
[2008/07/19 11:36] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/19 11:36] MT Lundquist: in theory
[2008/07/19 11:36] You: Gwyn is welcome to disagree though 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: (and Prin, flagging alone doesn’t perturb Alexi’s holding office at this stage)
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: Gywn? anyone else?
[2008/07/19 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. Even the all-powerful SC cannot put in force a bill that was repealed by the RA 😉
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: does he plan to implement the bill we passed early in the term
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: Gwyn heh heh to me that sounds like a question the SC would have to debate
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: about the inagural
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: .. forever …
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and the volunteers ?
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and the hall of fame.. or defy me personally on that too
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: hang on please 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: so if i touched it, he’s gonna just not do it
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: I have a constructive suggestion about that
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: as a personal vendetta on roses behalf
[2008/07/19 11:38] Rose Springvale blinks
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: oopsie – personal comments
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: please stop
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: he has a lot to do in the week, things he could have done in six months
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: “or else” 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: this is about his perfomance
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: not the part where you mentioned vendettas 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:38] Flyingroc Chung: gwyn, every act of the RA is legislation that the SC can repeal.
[2008/07/19 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but I still claim that the SC cannot approve bills that don’t exist any more 🙂 By doing so, they’d be doing legislative action, which they are not allowed to. However, they can certainly suspend things like the reprimand…
[2008/07/19 11:39] Flyingroc Chung: including, our actions today
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: Gywn you can take that argument to the SC and have fun at leisure with it — smile, shrug — I have no idea at the moment
[2008/07/19 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well he is the one who posted lies about me personally on the forum
[2008/07/19 11:39] Moon Adamant: are we transcripting?
[2008/07/19 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: so .. how is that addressed .. i sure hope so moon
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: always, Moon 🙂 until adjoruned
[2008/07/19 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I most certainly will enjoy that.
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: Siiigh I know you will
[2008/07/19 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: 🙁 CDS signal to noise ratio
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: ladies and gentlemen
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: thanks for your patience. I believe we are done with this agenda item
[2008/07/19 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, in the past, the RA used this quite often â€” ie. repealing its own laws before the SC veto’ed them â€” so there is a strong precedent.
[2008/07/19 11:40] Moon Adamant: brb
—-
[2008/07/19 11:40] MT Lundquist: i move that the chancellor be requested to complete ALL required actions by next week and that the RA will review that performance next week
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: I believe that as we are 80 minutes over our usual time, we should adjourn soon ..
[2008/07/19 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second

[2008/07/19 11:40] You: but MT raised a valid request
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: MT, can we have a list, or a reference to one?
[2008/07/19 11:40] Flyingroc Chung: There may be an argument to make that once the RA votes to remove a person, it cannot take the vote back.
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: and I will ask alexi to comment once you have one
[2008/07/19 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree FR
[2008/07/19 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He certainly does. Mmmh. We should first list what those required actions are.
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: FR 🙂 That’s for the SC now I think
[2008/07/19 11:41] MT Lundquist listens to FR
[2008/07/19 11:41] Flyingroc Chung: but the SC should decide that.
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well another bill was passed unanimously early in the term that affects the next two weeks
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and i doublt if our chancellor ieven has a copy
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: he has not made one move toward implementing that either
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: And I encourage you to appeal it there if there’s somewhere to go with it, because for the life of me I do not see how it becomes an RA action item
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: …
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and a budget was approved for that too
[2008/07/19 11:41] MT Lundquist: i suggest that the chancellor be asked to review ALL the ra transcripts for actions pertaining to him
[2008/07/19 11:42] You: … FR says that one can go to SC. Fine.
[2008/07/19 11:42] You: Let’s do MT’s motion
[2008/07/19 11:42] MT Lundquist: thats where the list will come from to start
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: well .. who is doing the bill we passed alexicon
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: do you even have it?
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: or do we have to call you in to make you do it
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and give you an ultimatium
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: then we get paid back in six months
[2008/07/19 11:43] You: so to restate it, MT – just want to get these spelled out – you move that we instruct the chancellor to finish all actions that he has been validly directed by us to complete, as evidenced by RA transcripts, by next week, and that you plan to ask for his removal if he does not?
[2008/07/19 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, from a procedural point of view, I’m not comfortable in voting for a motion that has no clear list of actions to vote on… so “all that was requested” is too vague for my conscience. On the other hand, certainly it’s the RA’s duty to validate and discuss what the Executive did or didn’t.
[2008/07/19 11:43] You: Gywn you can speak against it after we have it captured, please
[2008/07/19 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[2008/07/19 11:43] You: MT, how did I do?
[2008/07/19 11:43] Arria Perreault: May I, Jamie?
[2008/07/19 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: he has bills that affect the inagural that if he hasnt started working on a month ago , he wont get done
[2008/07/19 11:44] You: first MT clarifies motion, then speakers – and I have Gwyn, Arria and Prin
[2008/07/19 11:44] Flyingroc Chung: folks, I need to leave in about 4 minutes.
[2008/07/19 11:44] You: (noted FR, no hard feelings, we’re way over)
[2008/07/19 11:44] MT Lundquist: that he reports back to the ra personally next week on all actions being complete
[2008/07/19 11:44] Arria Perreault: I suggest the next RA to introduce a controlling system for the executif. Currently no such tool is available.
[2008/07/19 11:44] MT Lundquist: if they are not the RA decides its course of action
[2008/07/19 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: good do a bill arria
[2008/07/19 11:44] You: Arria 🙂 out of order, sorry, wait please all
[2008/07/19 11:44] MT Lundquist: which could of course include removal if thats appropriate
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: OK – I think that’s a sufficient statement of the motion
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: and I assume prin’s second applies to the slightly corrected version
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: so
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes thats fine.
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: PLEASE keep it to TWO LINES OF TEXT EACH
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: is fine
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: two
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: (then Arria, Prin, me)
[2008/07/19 11:46] Jamie Palisades waits – but not long as FR has to GO
[2008/07/19 11:46] You: OK Gwyn’s still writing, let’s go to Arria while we wait?
[2008/07/19 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So if I understand correctly, the Chancellor will be requested to do a status report: list all things that he could find on the RA transcripts that were requested of him, and, one by one, tell the RA if they were completed or not, and why not. Is that the idea of this motion?
[2008/07/19 11:46] You: oops 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:46] MT Lundquist: that they are completed
[2008/07/19 11:46] You: MT? Is Gwyn’s summary essentially correct?
[2008/07/19 11:46] MT Lundquist: that the job is done
[2008/07/19 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Isn’t this the case: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: kk sounds like a yes
[2008/07/19 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: or just let the citizens vote and let them worry about the fricken chancellor, it should be that way anyhow
[2008/07/19 11:47] Moon Adamant: was this ever requested from another chancellor before?
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: um gywn – I wil not read any forum pages today before adjounrment, sorry, outa time 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: Moon you are out of order
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: Arria do you wish to spesk BRIEFLY?
[2008/07/19 11:47] Moon Adamant: apologies
[2008/07/19 11:47] MT Lundquist: did another chancellor not do their job?
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: (hush please)
[2008/07/19 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: u yes
[2008/07/19 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, sorry. To be brief: that’s a list of all things the Chancellor did this term.
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: sigh
[2008/07/19 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: so
[2008/07/19 11:48] You: I assume no comments from Arria.
[2008/07/19 11:48] Flyingroc Chung: sorry folks
[2008/07/19 11:48] Flyingroc Chung: time flies like an arrow
[2008/07/19 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: bye FR monkey hugs
[2008/07/19 11:48] Rose Springvale: thanks frc!
[2008/07/19 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye, FR 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:48] Flyingroc Chung: and so do chimps
[2008/07/19 11:48] You: See ya FR – any take on this you want to share? Thanks for staying for overtime
[2008/07/19 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 11:48] Alexicon Kurka: bye frc
[2008/07/19 11:48] You: OK then 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: Here’s my take in two lines. I think the spirit of this motion is good, but it’s coming too fast for me to evaluate carefully, so I will abstain.
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: Any other RA member comments?
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: can we vote?
[2008/07/19 11:49] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: Members please state their vote on MT’s motion. I abstain.
[2008/07/19 11:50] You: I need votes from Gwyn, Prin, Sonja
[2008/07/19 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/07/19 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I have some qualms myself: on one hand, getting a status report from the Chancellor on his job is a good idea. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589 is perhaps just what we want. On the other hand, I don’t want more witch hunting. So I abstain.
[2008/07/19 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: pansies
[2008/07/19 11:50] Sonja Strom: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: pass
[2008/07/19 11:51] You: well
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: it passes then
[2008/07/19 11:51] You: that’s a failure. 2-0-3
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: why
[2008/07/19 11:51] MT Lundquist: 2 for 3 abstain
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to have a majority
[2008/07/19 11:51] MT Lundquist: thats 2 to 0
[2008/07/19 11:51] You: acts need a simple maority, defined as >50% of those voting
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: does anyone have seven day votes
[2008/07/19 11:51] MT Lundquist: sounds like a pass to me
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: Supreme Empress of All Branches Gwyn? Feel free to comment 🙂 I rule it fails
[2008/07/19 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: and my ruling can be appealed 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: but I think a 2-0-3 vote in a room with 5 RA members is a fail, technically
[2008/07/19 11:52] MT Lundquist: #ok so we have Jamie, sonja and gwyn not interested in the chancellors performance
[2008/07/19 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 out of 5 votes is not a majority in my book…
[2008/07/19 11:52] MT Lundquist: following a major debate on his performance
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: I didn’t see that one coming
[2008/07/19 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, we have it here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589
[2008/07/19 11:52] MT Lundquist: that is bizare
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: MT, no, we have (a) reprimaded him and (b) indicated a willignness to discuss it next week but that this was premature
[2008/07/19 11:53] MT Lundquist: and speaks perhaps to the motivations behind this whole debate
[2008/07/19 11:53] You: and I suggest we adjourn for the day, at, what, hour 3
[2008/07/19 11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: for ppl to like them
[2008/07/19 11:53] Rose Springvale: polls are closed in 4 minutes
[2008/07/19 11:53] You: and I also note that the CDS polls are about to close 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:53] You: thx rose
[2008/07/19 11:53] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: whooot
[2008/07/19 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second the adjournment
[2008/07/19 11:53] MT Lundquist: its still intersting that three of us didnt find it necesary to expect a report on performance
[2008/07/19 11:53] Rose Springvale: i have an announcement
[2008/07/19 11:54] You: Thank you all for significant attempts to handle these difficult issues with some degree of politeness
[2008/07/19 11:54] You: we are adjourned. Informal announcements? go for it
—-
[2008/07/19 11:55] Sonja Strom: What I would like to say is in response to a request made earlier by Moon.
[2008/07/19 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, I feel that viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589 was a reasonable attempt at describing the Exec’s performance this term, and at this point, I’m not sure we need more. That’s why I abstained.
[2008/07/19 11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: when are the results going to be given on the election
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: Metanomics has advised that they will be highlighint CN as an event partner tomorrow
[2008/07/19 11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I’M GONNA BE A MONKEY!!!
[2008/07/19 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh wow Rose!!!
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: we need to know that the job is complete next week
[2008/07/19 11:55] Sonja Strom: really Rose? That’s GREAT!
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: they want to include congratulations to our new RA
[2008/07/19 11:55] Justice Soothsayer: Great news!
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: and we should have asked for that gwyn
[2008/07/19 11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: neat!
[2008/07/19 11:55] Brian Livingston: Cool
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: so will be forwarding that info to them, and also
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: the RA just failed in its duty in my oppion
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: they will plug the new sim for us
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: opinion
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: in case anyone is interested in new positive things 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: Earlier Moon said:
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: [11:32] Moon Adamant: i actually was going to ask only, that after the vote, which was very clear, that the good names of the Executive branch would be cleared by a formal re-instament.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Alexicon Kurka: great news Rose
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: I feel that since our original decision has been reconsidered and withdrawn before it came into effect, a formal reinstatement would be a redundant and inaccurate action.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Vote SL: Your password will be sent via IM in a moment and will appear in your chat window. Please wait.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Vote SL: Jamie Palisades, your CDS voting password is: **** Please go to http://**** to vote.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Moon Adamant: yes Sonja
[2008/07/19 11:56] Vote SL owned by Jon Seattle gave you ‘I Voted Button’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/58/196/43 ).
[2008/07/19 11:56] Moon Adamant: but since the LRA will make a public post and inform the SC
[2008/07/19 11:56] Moon Adamant: i think that’s quite enough
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[2008/07/19 11:57] Moon Adamant: what i don’t think it would be appropriate would be to reinstate Alex and his team silently
[2008/07/19 11:57] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/07/19 11:57] Alexicon Kurka: when will the results of the election be known?
[2008/07/19 11:58] Brian Livingston: The SC needs to validate the results before the announcement, correct?
[2008/07/19 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, that’s for the SC to say, Alex 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/19 11:58] You: Sorry, all – I had to go vote 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: JAMIE!
[2008/07/19 11:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[2008/07/19 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 11:58] Brian Livingston: Slacker
[2008/07/19 11:58] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/07/19 11:59] Rose Springvale: well done jamie!
[2008/07/19 11:59] Moon Adamant: ok, thank you all for a good session
[2008/07/19 11:59] You: Gwynie. I hold factions responsible for their RA members. I wanted to see how this meeting went first. 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:59] Brian Livingston: I finally pulled the trigger and voted last night
[2008/07/19 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: k jamie i want you to look at my butt
[2008/07/19 11:59] Rose Springvale: you gave it every moment possible for input
[2008/07/19 11:59] Moon Adamant: and have fun everyone
[2008/07/19 11:59] Alexicon Kurka: yes me too, thanks everybody that kept an open eye and ear
[2008/07/19 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: can we do it here
[2008/07/19 11:59] Moon Adamant waves
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont wnna offeceify anyone
[2008/07/19 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 12:00] You: that’s a hell of a helmet Prin – you guys sell that?
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: yes its a man’s
[2008/07/19 12:00] MT Lundquist: yes have one jamie
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a thing on my butt i want you to see jamie
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: tell me when you are cammed and ill drop my pants fast
[2008/07/19 12:01] You: oh dear

[end]

Permalink.

RA Meeting: July 26, 2008

Agenda

1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 10h00 – 10h15)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. n/a
1f. Consent agenda: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)

2. Code reorganization report (15 mins: 10h15 – 10h30)
see: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1927
3. Election rule questions. (15 mins: 10h30 – 10h45)

NEW ITEMS
4. Other?
5. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00

Transcript

====
Transcript of 26 July 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items (or at least topical divisions)
====

[2008/07/26 9:55] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/60/65/123
[2008/07/26 9:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat…
[2008/07/26 9:55] Connected
[2008/07/26 9:56] You: hey there.
[2008/07/26 9:56] Flyingroc Chung: morning
[2008/07/26 9:56] You: Doing some IMs here to send for people 🙂 momentito
[2008/07/26 9:56] Brian Livingston: Hi all
[2008/07/26 9:58] You: brb
[2008/07/26 10:02] You: alrighty
[2008/07/26 10:02] You: Lost Roc, did me?
[2008/07/26 10:02] You: we
[2008/07/26 10:03] Brian Livingston: Seems so
[2008/07/26 10:03] Brian Livingston: G’morning MT
[2008/07/26 10:03] MT Lundquist: morning
[2008/07/26 10:03] Brian Livingston: Or afternoon for you, no?
[2008/07/26 10:03] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/26 10:04] You: Well, let me note a few things informally
[2008/07/26 10:05] You: Flying Roc and Sonja were inworld a bit ago
[2008/07/26 10:05] MT Lundquist: frs here
[2008/07/26 10:05] ChimpAO: Could not find animation ‘monkeyfly1’.
[2008/07/26 10:05] You: so it’s probably more crashes than boycotts 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: kernel panic 🙁
[2008/07/26 10:06] Brian Livingston: Any word from the CSDF folks?
[2008/07/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/07/26 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/07/26 10:06] Brian Livingston: WB Fr
[2008/07/26 10:06] You: hm – I get that a lot too – and not on a slow PC, Roc
[2008/07/26 10:06] Brian Livingston: Aaah, i was having that all last week until I realizeda stick of RAM died on me :/
[2008/07/26 10:06] You: I expect Sonja in a sec, as I talked to her at 930
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: well
[2008/07/26 10:07] Brian Livingston: I ran Memtest and realized one of my new sticks of ram is prettty much dead 🙁
[2008/07/26 10:07] You: oh? relates to memory size? hm
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: it only happens on SL on osx
[2008/07/26 10:07] Brian Livingston: Aaah, ok then.
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: I’m guessing bad graphics driver
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: or overheating
[2008/07/26 10:07] You: I do not expect Gwyn today, she may be out. Beathan, well, he’s not been seen much. And what about Prin, MT?
[2008/07/26 10:08] MT Lundquist: prrins out as i said before in iM earlier
[2008/07/26 10:08] You: kk
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: When it’s 10 after the hour if we are not quorate I suggest wr gracefully accede to fate 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: but thanks for coming
[2008/07/26 10:09] Sonja Strom: hi Rose
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: sonjas on the way
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: Hi Rose
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: shes on radar
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: at 13
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: Ah there
[2008/07/26 10:09] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: Hello Sonja
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: hi sonja
[2008/07/26 10:10] Sonja Strom: Sorry I’m late, technical difficulties
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: let’s run through the things we need to do, then, get this over expeditiously 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: agenda here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1999&p=11717#p11717
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: let’s call to order
—-
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: 1a
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: Please assent, etc. I assent
[2008/07/26 10:10] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/26 10:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/07/26 10:11] Brian Livingston: I assent
—-
[2008/07/26 10:11] You: 1d – if you see problems with posted transcripts tell me — ha ha and do it before 2 August, or you’ll have to tell Justice, my successor as LRA
[2008/07/26 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: I assent
—-
[2008/07/26 10:11] You: 1b any changes to agenda?
[2008/07/26 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, had to wade through some UAC dialog boxes
[2008/07/26 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: no changes from me
[2008/07/26 10:12] MT Lundquist: fine
[2008/07/26 10:12] You: OK
—-
[2008/07/26 10:13] You: 1c – Brian – if we do code reorg I assume you weill speak, I know of no others
[2008/07/26 10:13] Brian Livingston: I would be willing to address the RA if it so pleases them 🙂
—-
[2008/07/26 10:13] You: 1e is future meetings 🙂 not our problem
[2008/07/26 10:13] You: I note Justice is polling the incoming RA, looking at maybe next Saturday or Sunday FYI as first mtg
—-
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: 1f
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: consent
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: Have nothing …?
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: ok then
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: we have three items
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: Code reorg #2
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: Any further election rule issues #3
[2008/07/26 10:14] Sonja Strom: lol Rose
[2008/07/26 10:14] Rose Springvale: what now? lol
[2008/07/26 10:15] You: and “anything else” #4
[2008/07/26 10:15] Rose Springvale: consent 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:15] Sonja Strom: Hi Cindy
[2008/07/26 10:15] MT Lundquist: rose
[2008/07/26 10:15] MT Lundquist: cindy
[2008/07/26 10:15] Rose Springvale: hi 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:15] Cindy Ecksol: hi all. yes, I consent
[2008/07/26 10:15] Rose Springvale: sorry, slow rez day 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: I will take those as transcript assents from the Honorable Guild Events Tag Team
—-
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: ok #2 then 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: we have for some time had in front of us, as I introduced about 6 weeks ago, the final work of the Code Reorganization Commission
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: link in the agenda – and it’s here:
[2008/07/26 10:17] You: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1927
[2008/07/26 10:17] Sonja Strom: Hi Jon
[2008/07/26 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: hi jon
[2008/07/26 10:17] Delia Lake: hi Joh
[2008/07/26 10:17] Stormy: purr…
[2008/07/26 10:17] Brian Livingston: (I have it in notecard form as well for anyone who wants it)
[2008/07/26 10:17] Jon Seattle: Hi Sonja, FR, Delia 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:17] You: Our last three or four meetings have been … I think the phrase is “overtaken by events”
[2008/07/26 10:17] Stormy: meeow!
[2008/07/26 10:17] You: (please assent Jon, and hi)
[2008/07/26 10:18] Jon Seattle: Hi Jamie, I assent
[2008/07/26 10:18] Jon Seattle: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:18] You: Now, I was plannng to move that we pass this — to get the rest of the weeds pulled from our dilapidated Code as a housekeeping matter
[2008/07/26 10:18] You: and I also confirm that I independently spot checked Brian’s great, diligent work on this
[2008/07/26 10:19] You: chasing down all sorts of hoary old decaying issues and bits of bills
[2008/07/26 10:19] You: so the right Q for us now is whether to simply recommend it to the next RA (if that is your wish)
[2008/07/26 10:19] You: or actually enact it, mindful that the next RA can repeal/modify it
[2008/07/26 10:20] You: and that we’re in the lame duck period, see my comments in the posted agenda
[2008/07/26 10:20] You: Let me ask Brian, who was on the RA when this started (this time around) to say a few words about what we have here and how we might proceed, as it’s his work
[2008/07/26 10:21] Brian Livingston: Thank you to the R.A. for allowing me to speak on this briefly 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:22] Brian Livingston: The bill you have in front of you is one that has been in progress for going on two terms, with the assistanceo f multiple factions and individuals to bring it to the point we are today.
[2008/07/26 10:22] Brian Livingston: Currently, our set of code resides in one list, with little differentiation between code that is still active and code that has served its useful purpose, and even code that has been superceded or repealed
[2008/07/26 10:23] Brian Livingston: The resulting situation is that therei a lot of confusion and wasted time spent on the part of anyone who is attemptign to reserach and adhere to our codes
[2008/07/26 10:24] Rose Springvale applauds
[2008/07/26 10:24] Brian Livingston: This bill simplifies things by a) identifying bills that are no longer relevent and b) classifying them as such and removing them from our active roster of legislation to a second list of historic code.
[2008/07/26 10:25] Brian Livingston: This will streamline the process of researching our legislation while maintaining our rich historical past that can be told throuhg the legislation of prior Represenatative Assemblies.
[2008/07/26 10:26] Brian Livingston: I am eager to address any questions or concerns this esteemed R.A. may have on this bill and would strongly encourage passing this legislation so that we can leave our body of code in much better shape for the incoming R.A. and our community as a whole. Thank you.
[2008/07/26 10:27] Jamie Palisades smiles: Brian, let me say thanks again on behalf of CDS for a long detailed task — at least we can make it not a thankless one
[2008/07/26 10:27] Sonja Strom applauds
[2008/07/26 10:27] Jon Seattle: yay 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:27] MT Lundquist: claps
[2008/07/26 10:27] Brian Livingston: It was my pleasure Sir
[2008/07/26 10:27] You: let me ask first for questions for Brian – then let’s talk about whether there are any obstacles to adopting it
[2008/07/26 10:28] Flyingroc Chung: I think it’s gonna be really useful
[2008/07/26 10:28] Sonja Strom: I think so too, as the way the laws are organised now they are really confusing.
[2008/07/26 10:29] Sonja Strom: I thank Brian very much for this work.
[2008/07/26 10:30] You: hearing gratitude but no questions … 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:30] You: It seems to me that, if we adopt this today, we permit the new RA to get started on the right foot — And facilitate’s Arria’s website work (under way right now) right now to move all laws to the new portal — but without really prejudicing them, as they can always repeal or modify it.
[2008/07/26 10:31] You: But do we have any issues of lame duckness here? 🙂 I know some say it’s “bad form” for us to act after the elections start. That does not trouble me — on a noncontroversial issue, to me that sounds less like a legal assessment, and more like a “Peter Pan” quote — but how do others feel about enacting today?
[2008/07/26 10:31] MT Lundquist: i’m happy to
[2008/07/26 10:31] MT Lundquist: were are still the government today
[2008/07/26 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: it’s pretty uncontroversial, I think
[2008/07/26 10:32] You: I’d welcome hearing from anyone who think’s that this bit of housekeeping is inappropriate, though. Speak up, if so 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:32] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/07/26 10:33] You: Yes Rose?
[2008/07/26 10:33] Rose Springvale: Personally i think enacting this legislation is in good form for this RA … and i think that the issues of process you’ve all dealt with make it almost your legacy
[2008/07/26 10:34] You: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:34] Rose Springvale: i don’t think anyone likes wading through the CDS code
[2008/07/26 10:34] Jamie Palisades mutters … amen
[2008/07/26 10:34] Brian Livingston: It’s actually sorta fascinating, if you ever get the time :p
[2008/07/26 10:34] Rose Springvale: smile
[2008/07/26 10:34] Jon Seattle: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:34] Brian Livingston pipes down
[2008/07/26 10:34] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:34] Rose Springvale: says the bunny in camo…
[2008/07/26 10:34] You: well then – not seeing any other comments …
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: .. then it is my pleasure to move to adopt Brian’s bill as posted.
[2008/07/26 10:35] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/26 10:35] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/26 10:35] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/26 10:35] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: ha ha Sonja has a tennis match to get to!
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: And I vote aye.
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: Adopted 4-0-0. And thank you again, Brian.
[2008/07/26 10:35] MT Lundquist: thanks brian
[2008/07/26 10:36] Rose Springvale: hi delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] You: FYI I am chatting with Arria and Justice and this will get into the right hands 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:36] Brian Livingston: Thank you again to the R.A. for taking the time to consider this bill 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:36] Delia Lake: hi everyone
[2008/07/26 10:36] Brian Livingston waves to Delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] MT Lundquist: hi delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Delia 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:36] Flyingroc Chung: hey delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] You: and whoever takes over as RA Archivist will shower you with flowers, Bri
[2008/07/26 10:36] Sonja Strom: hi Delia
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: that’s it for item 2
[2008/07/26 10:37] Brian Livingston loves flowers… sooo tasty
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: (reminding, CDS commission on corporate structure at 11 here)
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: well flowers and carrots, then
—-
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: 3
[2008/07/26 10:37] Cindy Ecksol wishes brian would keep his relatives out of my garden
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: I think we have at least one proposed action on the election rules? Or not?
[2008/07/26 10:37] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/26 10:38] Rose Springvale wishes brian would be a cute animal again cause he’s scary like that
[2008/07/26 10:38] You: can you give us the background MT?
[2008/07/26 10:38] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/26 10:38] Delia Lake fumbles around for a homegrown carrot…
[2008/07/26 10:38] MT Lundquist: i’m concerned that the election count resulted in two different results
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: this issue was then considered after the fact by the SC in full knowledge of the results
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: i have posted the main points here
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1992
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: that includes the discussion on this
[2008/07/26 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all!
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: the SC didnt listen to my appeal
[2008/07/26 10:40] Jon Seattle: Yay Gwyn! 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: in fact had considered it before i arrived to present it
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: which seems in appropriate
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: so i bought it here
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: I know its unlikely to succeed
[2008/07/26 10:40] You: (Hi Gwyn, welcome, assent when you get a change pls)
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: turkeys voting for christmas and all that
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: but thought it of significance
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: and importnace
[2008/07/26 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I assent to be recorded!)
[2008/07/26 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, bluescreened
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: especially as the SC seemed confused
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: to quote cindy
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: For a short time even Claude was confused by this.
[2008/07/26 10:41] Cindy Ecksol raises had
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: so the bill is to
[2008/07/26 10:41] Cindy Ecksol raises hand….
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: void the election
[2008/07/26 10:41] You: let’s let MT finish
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: set the count method here
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: rerun the election
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] You: ooo
[2008/07/26 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: uh oh
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: bit of an echo in here
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Brian Livingston giggles
[2008/07/26 10:42] You: forget our multiple personality meds did me?
[2008/07/26 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: wow, that’s worse than what I had
[2008/07/26 10:43] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/26 10:43] You: ahem – more Xanax for Ms Llewelyn please
[2008/07/26 10:43] Brian Livingston: So that’s how she wirtes all those paragraphs in sucha short time… Repetition
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] You: MT 🙂 please continue
[2008/07/26 10:43] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Cindy Ecksol: oh my!!
[2008/07/26 10:43] MT Lundquist: i’ve finished
[2008/07/26 10:43] MT Lundquist: do you get to vote many times 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:43] Jamie Palisades rolls on the floor momentarily – like two of you wasn;t enough
[2008/07/26 10:44] You: Done with intro MT?
[2008/07/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: yes ty
[2008/07/26 10:44] You: OK then let me get two things
[2008/07/26 10:45] You: we have Cindy and maybe others who wish to speak so we will run a queue
[2008/07/26 10:45] You: but MT, where’s that URI? You actually have a posted bill text, I think
[2008/07/26 10:45] MT Lundquist: ok yes i will get that to
[2008/07/26 10:45] MT Lundquist: just a sec
[2008/07/26 10:45] You: (and then we ask for a second – and then we get into the merits – and then …
[2008/07/26 10:46] You: … maybe we need to talk about whether the RA can in fact void an election? I just haven’t thought that one through.)
[2008/07/26 10:46] MT Lundquist: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1993
[2008/07/26 10:46] You: let’s get the URI so people can .. ah thx
[2008/07/26 10:46] Jamie Palisades grabs the webpage …
[2008/07/26 10:47] You: K
[2008/07/26 10:47] You: good, got it. Is there a second to MT’s motion?
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] You: ha ha well first we need a second or there’s nothing (actionwise) to discuss
[2008/07/26 10:49] Brian Livingston wonders if Gwyn can IM to another person and if they can transmit to the main chat…
[2008/07/26 10:49] You: 10h48 SLT on my screen — I will wait until 10h50 for a second, then
[2008/07/26 10:49] You: (Oo good idea Brian – Gwynnie always needed a press secretary anyway)
[2008/07/26 10:50] Rose Springvale: she’s spamming in im too lol
[2008/07/26 10:50] Brian Livingston: Well, worth a try :p
[2008/07/26 10:50] You: (Hey I’m out of work in a week 😀 I could be your spokesmodel)
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] You: (Do I get a cool costume like The Metatron?)
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Rose Springvale: rofl
[2008/07/26 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: ol!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
[2008/07/26 10:51] Rose Springvale: looks forward to the transcript of this meeting!
[2008/07/26 10:51] Sonja Strom: hello
[2008/07/26 10:51] Sonja Strom: hello, Object
[2008/07/26 10:51] Cindy Ecksol imagines gwyn being brief in everything she says…..
[2008/07/26 10:51] Rose Springvale imagines hell freezing over…
[2008/07/26 10:52] You: Ladies and gentlemen, the Almighty has shown favor to us and blessed our endeavors by rewarding us with a minor miracle, here at our last RA meeting.
[2008/07/26 10:52] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/07/26 10:52] You: A voiceless Gwyn.
[2008/07/26 10:52] Cindy Ecksol didn’t realize she was showing up for a religious experience in SL today!
[2008/07/26 10:52] Jon Seattle: poor Gwyn
[2008/07/26 10:52] You: Now, if we just get a polite Prin and a humble Jamie … well.. hmm .. that would be proof of the apocalypse.
[2008/07/26 10:53] Brian Livingston: We just had a flying Chimp… that’s gotta be worth something
[2008/07/26 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: anyone notice how windows does not show the blue screen anymore?
[2008/07/26 10:53] You: But in all seriousness, we’re sorry for Gwyneth’s comm issues, must be very annoying.
[2008/07/26 10:53] Jon Seattle: wb Gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:53] Delia Lake: and a talking rabbit?
[2008/07/26 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: what did I miss?
[2008/07/26 10:54] You: OK, guys, I am going to say motion dies for lack of second.
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] You: Um – talking rabbits and the apocalypse, that’s about it FGR
[2008/07/26 10:54] MT Lundquist: ok pretty much as i expected
[2008/07/26 10:54] MT Lundquist: turkeys and christmas as i said
[2008/07/26 10:54] You: May I just ask, before we leave this
[2008/07/26 10:55] MT Lundquist: well afraid I have to leave now
[2008/07/26 10:55] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps confusion on your part that the rest of the RA does not share
[2008/07/26 10:55] MT Lundquist: thanks all for the interesting 6 months
[2008/07/26 10:55] You: ah OK. Thank very much for coming, MT and serving with great reliability throughout your term.
—
[2008/07/26 10:56] You: Ladies and gents, um and ravagers of Cindy’s garden, are there any other topics for today?
[2008/07/26 10:56] You: (Corporate commission here in 5-7 minutes)
[2008/07/26 10:56] Rose Springvale: Thanks to the RA for all your service
[2008/07/26 10:56] Brian Livingston: Indded, thank you to you all 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:56] Delia Lake: yes, i second that
[2008/07/26 10:56] Jon Seattle: Indeed 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:56] You: if not, may I thank you all again — first on behalf of CDS for your service, and second personally for very strong efforts to move us forward and produce, even in high winds
[2008/07/26 10:57] You: I will file my final report on the forums next week, with an inventory of what we’re passing along to the new RA and CDS …
[2008/07/26 10:57] Delia Lake: thank you all for volunteering to govern our community
[2008/07/26 10:57] You: indeed 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:58] Cindy Ecksol wonders if Jon is having a fit back there….
[2008/07/26 10:58] You: and would happily (truly, you have no idea) welcome a suggestion that we adjourn sine die
[2008/07/26 10:58] Delia Lake: and Jamie, thank you very much for leading such an orderly and productive RA term
[2008/07/26 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: yes, big thanks to jamie!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2008/07/26 10:58] Jon Seattle yay!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Jon Seattle: — its the silly poses on this chair 😀
[2008/07/26 10:58] Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:59] Rose Springvale: sure it is jon…. 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:59] Jon Seattle: lol
[2008/07/26 10:59] You: thanks very much 🙂 orderly, well, at times …. productive though, with help, thankfully. Cheers all 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:59] You: while Delia is here 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:59] You: *Delia
[2008/07/26 10:59] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie, for your great work as LRA.
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: let me mention the informal comments we had a few meetings ago about a possible ecological focus commission – something we might be able to shape and recommend, as individuals, to the incoming RA
[2008/07/26 11:00] Sonja Strom: Thanks to all of the other RA members for helping to keep the community together and functioning.
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: 🙂 thanks Sonja, and everyone
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: We’re adjourned for the term, then 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: yay
[2008/07/26 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: hip hip — -hooray!!!
[2008/07/26 11:00] Rose Springvale: applause
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: opa!
[2008/07/26 11:01] Sonja Strom: applause 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:01] Flyingroc Chung: not quite sure why I signed up for another one, lol
[2008/07/26 11:01] Jon Seattle: See you all and thanks!
[2008/07/26 11:01] You: those who care, what about a 3 minute bio break? or start right in on corporations?
[2008/07/26 11:01] Brian Livingston: 3 minutes break sounds good
[2008/07/26 11:02] Rose Springvale: men ….
[2008/07/26 11:02] Delia Lake: love that anim, FR
[2008/07/26 11:02] You: good. 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:02] Rose Springvale: can we all move to the inner circle now?
[2008/07/26 11:02] Delia Lake: i would certainly be interested in an ecological commission
[2008/07/26 11:02] Rose Springvale: try gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:02] You: rose no one kept you out 😀
[2008/07/26 11:03] Rose Springvale: matter of courtesy, long standing tradition JP
[2008/07/26 11:03] You: and yes, Delia, let’s you and I and perjhaps Moon or Symo and Bjerkel pursue that
[2008/07/26 11:03] Rose Springvale: and me!
[2008/07/26 11:03] Delia Lake: very good
[2008/07/26 11:03] You: good 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:04] You: a lot of underexplored overlaps between eco awareness, the projects our citizens have today and … what we can do right here in CDS.

[end]

Permalink.

9th Representative Assembly (14)

RA Meeting – 17 August 2008

Transcript needed

Permalink.

RA Meeting 03 August 2008

Meeting on 2008-08-03
Justice Soothsayer is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: Now we enter a new chapter, the 9th RA and a fourth sim.
Claude Desmoulins: Since there’s a full agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s proceed directly with the affirmation.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll start with the new LRA.
Rose Springvale: sorry
Rose Springvale: oops
Claude Desmoulins: Justice, when you’re ready.
Justice Soothsayer: I, Justice Soothsayer, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Claude Desmoulins: Arria,
Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Claude Desmoulins: Bells,
Bells Semyorka: I, Bells Semyorka, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Claude Desmoulins: FRC…
Flyingroc Chung: I, Flyingroc Chung, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, so help me God.
Claude Desmoulins: Rubaiyat…
Rubaiyat Shatner: I, Rubaiyat Shatner, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Claude Desmoulins: And Pip isn’t with us.
Claude Desmoulins: Congratulations to the new RA.
Justice Soothsayer: Yay!
Arria Perreault: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I now yield the floor to the LRA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray to the CDS 😉
Moon Adamant: congratulations all!
Bells Semyorka smiles and claps
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Claude!
Rose Springvale: applause!
Jon Seattle: yay! 🙂
Sudane Erato: :))))
Patroklus Murakami claps
Rubaiyat Shatner has indicated consent to be recorded.
Ulysse Alexandre applauds
Justice Soothsayer: It has become traditional for the LRA to offer some remarks at the outset of the term in what started as a sort of ?State of the City? address, now expanded to the ?State of the CDS?.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: But first, I have to extend great thanks to Jamie for his diligent work as the LRA. He has some big virtual shoes to fill.
Moon Adamant cheers
Justice Soothsayer: He has set a great example of patience and leadership.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Jamie!!!
Arria Perreault: / me agrees
Justice Soothsayer: Now, on to the State of the CDS.
Arria Perreault agrees
Justice Soothsayer: The state of the CDS is healthy!
Justice Soothsayer: We have just seen the peaceful transfer of authority to a new Representative Assembly ? for the EIGHTH time!
Justice Soothsayer: Factions established platforms, debates occurred in settings as formal as an amphitheater and as informal as a brewpub.
Justice Soothsayer: Candidates were selected, votes were cast and counted, and a new group of citizens was selected to help guide our collective efforts.
Justice Soothsayer: We have a balanced budget with ample reserves.
Justice Soothsayer: We continue to grow, with our fourth sim about to be ready for occupancy, as we saw on the parade!
Justice Soothsayer: The work is guided by a master plan, developed after broad community input.
Justice Soothsayer: But as our experiment in democracy continues, we continue to have our challenges.
Justice Soothsayer: We depend too much on a few dedicated individuals, and we don?t offer thanks nearly often enough.
Jamie Palisades smiles
Justice Soothsayer: Our beautiful streets and alleyways are too often empty.
Justice Soothsayer: Our beautiful streets and alleyways are too often empty.
Justice Soothsayer: Our debates often generate far more heat than light.
Justice Soothsayer: And although we continue to grow, we are not anywhere near keeping pace with the kind of growth we see in SL at large.
Justice Soothsayer: We must work together this term, avoiding rancor while respecting the rights of those who may disagree. We must keep our house in order. We must redouble our efforts to be a shining example of what is possible with online democracy.
Justice Soothsayer: And at the end of this term, the CDS we will leave to our successors will be have a vibrant civic discourse, a solid treasury, and be stronger and healthier.
Justice Soothsayer: Now, let us get to work.
Flyingroc Chung claps
Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear 🙂
Moon Adamant applauds
Jon Seattle: yay Justice! 🙂
Arria Perreault applauds
Bells Semyorka nods and claps, Well said Justice
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, all.
Claude Desmoulins claps
Justice Soothsayer: The agenda is at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2006
Claude Desmoulins: Pardon me, but RL calls.
Jamie Palisades smiles and applauds
Rose Springvale claps
Sudane Erato: ty Claude!
Flyingroc Chung: cya claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks so much, Claude!
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Claude. Nice parade!
Jamie Palisades: And well done Claude, thank
Arria Perreault: thank you Clauda. You had a great idea with this procession
Justice Soothsayer: OK, first item on the agenda is consent to recording. Please touch the recording device on the table to indicate consent.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, what a lovely idea 🙂 Although when we have 120 sims…
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: Are there any changes to the draf agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Bells Semyorka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: *draft
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault: is my proposal of budget for the ball in the agenda?
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: ah, good point, Arria. We’ll do that under III.
Justice Soothsayer: d. Other.
Arria Perreault: thank you
Justice Soothsayer: anything else?
Rubaiyat Shatner: may I get a copy as well?
Justice Soothsayer: Is there anyone not in the RA who want to speak on any of the agenda items?
Moon Adamant: i would like to speak for the Guild, Mr. Lra
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Moon, we can include that under “Sim 4 update”.
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: OK, moving on.
Moon Adamant nods
Jamie Palisades: I might speak to the commission I chair.
Arria Perreault: I would like to say some words about the use of portal
Justice Soothsayer: OK, noted, Jamie & Arria.
Justice Soothsayer: The first item of business is the Rules.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Justice Soothsayer: I am perfectly willing to operate under the rules used by the last RA, but thought this should be the first item for us to consider.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that ‘willingness’…
Justice Soothsayer: Does anyone have either an objection to operating under the lasdt RA rules, or have an amendment to offer?
Claude Desmoulins has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: Silence is golden!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Very well, the last RA rules will continue!
Justice Soothsayer: Any “consent agenda” items that we need to deal with?
Sudane Erato: what’s a consent agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item without discussion, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: ahh 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where the RA basically approves something directly…
Justice Soothsayer: “items that require no debate”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (or not)
Justice Soothsayer: But at this point in the term, I haven’t heard of any.
Justice Soothsayer: So, moving on…
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, could you give us an update as to the Commission on Corporate Structure?
Arria Perreault: sorry
Justice Soothsayer: wb Arria.
Jamie Palisades: Certainly,M r. LRA
Jamie Palisades: We met once as a commission, with results here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1998
Jamie Palisades: I’m grateful for the good turn-out of participants. More meetings are expecte d …
Jamie Palisades: Our original plan was to report to the new RA, though I think the consensus of those participating was that, if the RA finds this acceptable, we will report back in September or October.
Jamie Palisades: To summarize, we are examining what underlying needs or risks incorporation was raised to address ..
Justice Soothsayer: We should have one of the current RA members designated to ba part of the commission, I think.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Jamie Palisades: … and *how* they might be handled, by corporate structure or otherwise. Al;l are welcome .. next meeting in about 2 weeks. Any questions?
Justice Soothsayer: Anyone want to volunteer?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, are you planning to meet at 11 AM on Sundays?
Jamie Palisades: That would be great 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, I’d be more than glad to volunteer… as a Devil’s Advocate lol
Jamie Palisades: um – “great” = RA member joining …
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Jamie Palisades: and of course we’d love to haveo ou, G
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll try to come as well, but thanks for volunteering, Gwyn.
Jamie Palisades: Though we will need to consul the stakeholdrs about scheduling …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably not really “love” to have me, but, well, “get pestered” 😉
Jamie Palisades: … don;t want to collidew ith Guild, either
Justice Soothsayer: Any other questions for Jamie on this topic?
Jamie Palisades: 🙂 love. No Q about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Moon Adamant: Jamie, most probably the Guild will occupy this slot on saturdays instead… it’s on discussion atm
Justice Soothsayer: Ah, Moon, thanks for reminding me.
Moon Adamant: yes?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ve polled the RA members, and Sundays @ 9 am SLT is the only time we all have in common.
Justice Soothsayer: I should have mentioned that earlier.
Justice Soothsayer: Under I. e. of the agenda.
Moon Adamant: ok, we will possibly try to pass it saturdays to the old slot
Moon Adamant: as said, in discussion atm
Justice Soothsayer: So I guess that frees up Saturdays for now.
Justice Soothsayer: Nice seque to the Guild report, though, Moon. You have the floor for an update on LA, etc.
Moon Adamant: thank you
Moon Adamant: as you have seen, LA is purchased and already adjoined to our territory
Moon Adamant: terraform is done and and roads are being done
Moon Adamant: during this week, a suggestion appeared that will change positively the overall appearance of the sim, without extra costs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay for LA 😀
Moon Adamant: i am going to rez a prim with the suggestion, which has been approved by Ulysee
Moon Adamant: who designed the plan
Moon Adamant: and would have been presented today at Guild
Moon Adamant: so… it’s a premi?re
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Moon Adamant: bear with me a second
Moon Adamant: it’s on teh wall behing Arria, Hwyn and Bells
Moon Adamant: behind*
Moon Adamant: and it’s teh inclusion of a maritime theatre inspired on the Villa Adriana
Patroklus Murakami: wow! 🙂
Moon Adamant: the centre islet will keep the mundus, or foundation of the sim
Moon Adamant: btw, this is a suggestion by Symo Kurka
Ulysse Alexandre applauds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sounds *fantastic* 😀
Jon Seattle: 🙂 cool idea!
Justice Soothsayer: very nice.
Rose Springvale: i’m not sure what a maritime theater is
Arria Perreault: to show plays with boats
Sudane Erato: a theater underwater 🙂
Moon Adamant: it’s just a scenic element
Brian Livingston: I imagine it involves a trained orca :p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jamie Palisades: 😀
Rose Springvale: smiles
Bells Semyorka chuckles
Moon Adamant: you’ll have a rounded island with an altar and columns,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooo… you see, Rose, on the Colosseum in Rome, you had naval battles!…
Rose Springvale: uh huh
Arria Perreault: in big amphitheaters, they have made spectacles with boats
Moon Adamant: and an exterior circumference lined with columns as well, that will unify both halves of the sim
Moon Adamant: Nothing else to report
Brian Livingston: Fascinating centerpiece for the sim
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Moon.
Patroklus Murakami: fabulous idea. it gives the new sim a ‘heart’ 🙂
Rubaiyat Shatner: yes that looks terrific
Justice Soothsayer: Any questions/comments for Moon?
Moon Adamant: thank you
Rose Springvale: is this decided or will it come to guild for more discussion?
Jon Seattle: Yes, it definitly provides a focus — great work!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… timings 😉
Moon Adamant: well, i would have presented it today
Moon Adamant: this way, it will pass to saturday
Moon Adamant: but this will be built with no delay to the sim
Justice Soothsayer: And the sim will be ready for occupancy 1 September?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so the deadline for the sim to be delivered fully built is still the same?
Moon Adamant: as we are hmmm transforming the two piazettas or scenic views that were already planned
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Justice,..,. 🙂
Moon Adamant: yes, Sept the 1st
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: great minds think alike, Gwyn 😉
Rose Springvale: my question concerns use of the space.. is it for public use for theatrical things or is it just a focal point?
Moon Adamant: it will be mainly a focal point
Moon Adamant: but i can tell you that the structure at the center
Moon Adamant: the altar
Arria Perreault: we could use it as information center of the sim
Moon Adamant: occupies the same space as the chair you’re sitting in
Rose Springvale: okay 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: or to sacrifice RA members?
Rose Springvale: thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Brian Livingston hides
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Moon Adamant: so the space can be used for other functions
Arria Perreault: any boats?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have one in CN… hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: made by Tony!
Justice Soothsayer: 1 min more on this topic, please.
Moon Adamant: that’s for the residents to get 🙂
Arria Perreault: ok
Rose Springvale: as we add sims to the east, we’ll have more navigable space
Gwyneth Llewelyn likes the idea very much (just watching the new sim plan)
Justice Soothsayer is moving to the next topic, Chancellor selection.
Moon Adamant: thank you
Rose Springvale: thanks Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Moon.
Justice Soothsayer: One of the first things the new RA must do is select a Chancellor.
Justice Soothsayer: One candidate has applied during the application period: Jamie Palisades.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant cheers
Justice Soothsayer: Apparently his presidential video thing still leaves a little time for other activities.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL
Arria Perreault: :-))
Sudane Erato: lol :))
Bells Semyorka: lol
Justice Soothsayer: Are there any other nominations?
Jamie Palisades: Siiiigh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Justice Soothsayer: Any questions for Jamie from the RA members?
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks for more vict…. volunteers
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: out of the frying pan… into the fire
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure, I have at least one ? Jamie, do you intend to present/announce a team that will work with you in the Executive?
Rose Springvale looks for salt…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will it be a surprise? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Rose 😉
Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, I have had multiple volunteers — except hehfor the …
Jamie Palisades: toughest jobs of all wich Sudane kindly holds …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, I have a question: how much time do you think the Chancellor job will take?
Jamie Palisades: … and it is myhope w e will work our a role for everyone who wisses toserve
Arria Perreault: may we know the names or should wait the ball?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I would like to second Arria’s question… 😉
Jamie Palisades: .. so I may be back here looking to expand some jobs, too 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, that’s good, I think, so long as we have a budget for them all 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn turns irony mode off.
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, please respond to Arria’s question ahead ofmine.
Jamie Palisades: well, I did not plan to put people o the spot,but rther, hope t with everyone’s consent bring a slate that all will agree upon shortly … and …
Jamie Palisades: if you will give it a moment’s thought …
Jamie Palisades: Given that I learned 4 minutes ago that I am the only candidate, I wasn’t really in the position to work out issues betwen competing applicants for the same post 🙂 until now
Jamie Palisades: also
Justice Soothsayer: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fair’s fair, and you’re right 😉
Jamie Palisades: It’s in the spirit of CDS that we POST jobs before filling them 🙂
Jamie Palisades: no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touche!
Moon Adamant: 🙂
Jamie Palisades: Hey can you imagine – there nmight be someone who wishes to serve that i do NOT know about ….
Gwyneth Llewelyn is still giggling iRL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: HI Justice. I would like to return to the RA Archivist job. I held it a year or so ago, and still have the login access to the wiki to update things. As we have talked about, my priorities would be to update the online constitution and to implement the recently passed code reorganiso, my question, on how much time is required?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s from Publius?
Justice Soothsayer: Oops, too many windows
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, my question on how much time is required?
Rose Springvale is confused.
Brian Livingston is as well
Arria Perreault: well I must say that I have started to migrate the laws on the new portal
Justice Soothsayer: Sorry about that, Rose. I was pasting in an email from Publius into a notecard.
Rose Springvale: did i miss the election of the chancellor? lol lots of windows here too
Justice Soothsayer: While at the same time trying to ask Jamie how much time is required for the Chancellor job.
Jamie Palisades: … OK – two threads 🙂
Jamie Palisades: 1. Justice, may I just say, with Arria to correct me, that it was our hope as the outgoing government that your new work would proceed on the official portal, not the old informal wiki. I have offered my help to Arria et al to decode what we did last term. And I will with her help if selected find appropriatre persons to continue that work.
Arria Perreault: Great idea
Jamie Palisades: 2. Man, would I like to have a good time estimate from any of our predecessor Chancellors 🙂 but none are at hand and I am inclined to estimate what i think it shoud take – rather than derive it from history.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 20 hours a day? 😉
Jamie Palisades: LRA probably got 6-8 formal hours a week from me, for what it is worth,
Sudane Erato: !
Jamie Palisades: There’s the obvious 3 hours per meeting …
Jamie Palisades: we met weekly …
Jamie Palisades: and I DID hang out a lot in CD but NOT always in an official capacity 🙂
Jamie Palisades: *cds
Justice Soothsayer: Fair enough.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: We are nearly out of time on this topic. Is there a motion to confirm Jamie Palisades as Chancellor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose a motion to confirm Jamie Palisades as Chancellor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (now we have one!)
Arria Perreault: I second
Justice Soothsayer: Are you ready to vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready!
Flyingroc Chung: yeah
Rubaiyat Shatner: yes
Bells Semyorka: yeppers
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye.
Arria Perreault is ready
Jamie Palisades: So when I think about the agenda-creating, guild meeting attending, chatting with people about legislation? Er .. smoothing feathers? (grin) probably another 3-5 hours on the average. And I will just say to be responsive – I think this will take more.
Arria Perreault: /votes aye (with great pleasure :-))
Jamie Palisades: done 🙂 lag
Gwyneth Llewelyn enthusiastically votes aye on the motion to confirm Jamie Palisades as Chancellor
Bells Semyorka: Aye
Rubaiyat Shatner: I vote yes as well.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie is the new Chancellor!
Rose Springvale applauds
Rubaiyat Shatner: w00t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, congratulations, Jamie!… 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, could you please arrange for the white smoke to emit from the building?
Bells Semyorka claps, Congrats Jamie
Moon Adamant: Congratulations!! :))))
Arria Perreault applauds
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: Congratulations RA!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles* @ Justice
Jamie Palisades: Thank you all.
Sudane Erato: good luck Jamie!!
Jon Seattle: yay Jamie!
Sudane Erato: you’ll need it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good luck indeed… hehe
Justice Soothsayer: Next topic: RA Archivist.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes!
Moon Adamant: lol sudane
Jamie Palisades: 😛 Su
Justice Soothsayer: I have had one applicant, and I’ll paste the email in a moment:
Justice Soothsayer: HI Justice. I would like to return to the RA Archivist job. I held it a year or so ago, and still have the login access to the wiki to update things. As we have talked about, my priorities would be to update the online constitution and to implement the recently passed code reorganization bill. I would also like to add a listing of our statutes by topic.

I can’t make most weekend RA meetings since I have small children and am usually in charge of them during the weekends, but if you email me the chat logs I will be sure to post them on the forums as soon as possible.

It will be good to once again perform a valuable service.

Sincerely,

Publius Crabgrass
Justice Soothsayer: Are there any other nominations for RA Archivist?
Justice Soothsayer: And Arria, I agree tht we should instruct the archivist to use the portal, not the wiki.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Arria & Justice too
Sudane Erato: i’d like to note that the compilation book on the table is by Publius
Arria Perreault: yes, I am ready to introduce him
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, a short word of praise to Publius… last year, he was awesome in figuring out all the amendments that applied to the COnstitution or not, and he made several annotations on ‘old’ laws
Justice Soothsayer: That’s a motion, right, Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, if it weren’t for his work last year, we’d be way more in the dark than we are!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’d like to propose a motion to nominate Publius as RA Archivist, since he is willing to have his job again!
Arria Perreault: I second the motion
Rubaiyat Shatner: what happened to him? why did he leave the position?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe he had RL work to deal with…
Justice Soothsayer: I believe he left that job to take a position with our short-lived judiciary as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, temporarily… he did, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then the whole wiki collapsed anyway…
Justice Soothsayer: just for the record, he’s a friend of mine in RL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah I had no idea, Justice 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: and i’ll endorse his candidacy too.
Jamie Palisades: Even better – “we know where you live” 😀
Rubaiyat Shatner: If he feels like he has the time, it seems as thought his work is most excelent
Brian Livingston: hehe
Bells Semyorka: lol
Justice Soothsayer: Ready for a vote?
Rubaiyat Shatner: ready
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure!
Arria Perreault: I think that thee are ways to help CDS, also not being in-world
Justice Soothsayer: Please state your votes for the record?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria, I agree… and God knows how vital (and hard!) this job is!
Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye to have Publius as RA Archivist again.-
Arria Perreault: I vote aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Rubaiyat Shatner: I vote yes.
Bells Semyorka: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Justice Soothsayer: We have an Archivist.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Next topic: Borda counts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: another job/role I really don’t envy, but Publius deserves a medal too
Justice Soothsayer: FRC, could you please introduce the topic. I’ll be back in 1 minute.
Patroklus Murakami: congrats to publius, and a weight of justice’s shoulders too 🙂 an archivist is a great help
Flyingroc Chung: yes, so borda rankings have been a fundamental part of our election system
Flyingroc Chung: since time immemorial
Flyingroc Chung: or at least, since we had our first ever elections
Flyingroc Chung: So basically we have traditionally given the worst-ranked factions a borda count of 0
Flyingroc Chung: But given that we’ve had some confusion in the last elections, I’m proposing to make it explicit in th constitution
Flyingroc Chung: let me find the link to the exat amendment..
Flyingroc Chung: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2018
Justice Soothsayer: yes, FRC, and if you could paste it into the chat it would be helpful for the record.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d appreciate that too.
Flyingroc Chung: change the fist paragraph of Article 1 section 2 to
Representative seats are chosen by means of the Sainte-Lagu? method using scores generated by Borda-count ranked votes cast by citizens. The last place rank in the Borda-count shall have a score of 0; and each successively higher rank shall shall have a score of 1 more than the next lower rank. The citizens will also rank the list of candidates from their first-pick faction to serve on the RA.
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks.
Justice Soothsayer: Is there a second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Justice Soothsayer: As a second, Gwyn, or to recognized? Or both?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, to be recognised ?
Justice Soothsayer: Ah, well, we need a second first.
Bells Semyorka: I second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Bells 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Bells. Gwynnie, you have the floor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, hmm, trying to be short here…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a democracy, it’s *crucial* and *critical* that everything related to the elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is crystal-clear, without any doubts in the minds of the citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To that regard, the CSDF feels that there is quite a lot that has to be done ? it’s not just the 0-based Borda count that requires a change in the Constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we also feel that we should, as a measure of goodwill, to make *at least* this change on the COnstitution,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since it was so often raised publicly as being ‘in doubt’ (when it actually never was!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So teh CSDF will support this amendment,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also propose a motion to form a new Electoral COmmittee for further reforms & clarifications
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning: it’s not only this point, folks! We have more to do!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, ok, let’s do this first step.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, that’s all.
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Gwyn. Anyeone else?
Rubaiyat Shatner: I hope that with the update and the new archivist it will be easier to see that Gwyn
Justice Soothsayer notes there is still an extant Electoral Commission
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Rubaiyat ? but there is more work to do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Justice, however hmm its status is unclear, since it’s former head (Beathan) is very likely too busy iRl right now, and has not made a full report
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the suggestion would be either to a) get a new head for the current Electoral Committe or b) make the current one extanct and vote on a new one.
Justice Soothsayer: as with the corporate structure group, it wil probably need a new RA member to head it. But first things, first. Any other discussion on FRC’s proposed amendment?
Justice Soothsayer: Hearing none (and seeing no typing movements) please vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems to be a peaceful one… after all, the SC sort of hinted that it’s their interpretation anyway 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure, I vote aye on FRC’s amendment.
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye on FRC’s proposed amendment.
Flyingroc Chung: I vote aye
Rubaiyat Shatner: I vote yes.
Bells Semyorka: Aye
Arria Perreault: I vote aye
Justice Soothsayer: The motion carries. Our new Archivist has some more constitution altering to do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: Anyone care to propose a new RA head to the electoral commission?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do we have volunteers? 🙂 I’d certainly like to nominate Flyingroc… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, FRC, but you’re *good* at those electoral thingies!9
Flyingroc Chung: sadly rl commitments will not allow me to head such a commission
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww FRC
Gwyneth Llewelyn is so disappointed
Flyingroc Chung: I’m afraid I’d be peresent in 10% of my own commissions meetings 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Arria Perreault: oh! too bad. you seem to be the more comfortable with this matter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly, Arria
Justice Soothsayer: I’m going to nominate Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg
Rose Springvale: lol
Justice Soothsayer: revenge from FRC.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I see mmmh
Moon Adamant: ahahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not good at playing this game!
Moon Adamant: ehehehe
Arria Perreault: you’re probably the second person who is comfortable with this question 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right, I’ll accept ? since yes, I *do* believe this issue is really crucial
Justice Soothsayer: Hearing no other nominees/volunteers/victims…
Justice Soothsayer: let’s move on to other topics. Arria, you wanted to mention the portal?
Arria Perreault: yes
Justice Soothsayer: 2 minutes.
Arria Perreault: I think that the RA will have to deal with this question and I will come with proposals
Jamie Palisades: 🙂 afk
Arria Perreault: now I would like to know how the RA would like to use the portal
Arria Perreault: we usually publish everything in the forum
Arria Perreault: which is not really usable when we have to find again an information
Arria Perreault: I have set a page for the RA, with subpages
Arria Perreault: with members, calender
Justice Soothsayer: I would like the portal to be the official repository of all documents. I’d also like to se an RSS fee incorporated from the forums.
Justice Soothsayer: *feed
Patroklus Murakami: point of information – we used to publish material on the wiki, which is much better for storing transcripts, code of laws, constitution
Arria Perreault: and my intention would be to create a page for every meeting, with agenda and transcript
Arria Perreault: I would like to know if the members agree with that idea
Arria Perreault: I am volunteer to work as a “secretary” of the LRA to maintain these pages
Arria Perreault: for this term
Arria Perreault: I am talking only of the pages of the RA (not the laws)
Justice Soothsayer: Arria, that’s sort of what we have the Archivist for.
Arria Perreault: can the Archivist also publish the agenda and the transcript?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, although I imagine Publius will welcome Arria’s help to figure out the interface to do the postings 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Arria, he’ll do that too.
Arria Perreault: ok. I can introduce slowly 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And create a new entry for each of the approved laws/amendments.
Arria Perreault: yes
Rubaiyat Shatner: would it be possible to have a place for proposed legislation too? and can I see what it looks like sometime?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, I think that the Wiki had a big advantage: it was quite accessible in a sense, but it lacked a crucial tool: automatic tagging and cross-referencing.
Arria Perreault: of course
Justice Soothsayer is curious why Pat thinks the wiki is a better place for documents.
Rubaiyat Shatner: updating and correcting most likely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What that means is that we couldn’t approve a law and click on a button and see ‘related’ laws easily, to see which ones would be superceded
Patroklus Murakami: not *the* wiki but *a* wiki is better for documents than the forums
Arria Perreault: I really think that a wiki is not a good tool for laws
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything is better than forums! lol
Patroklus Murakami: tagging and cross-referencing woudl be very handy
Arria Perreault: the portal has a structure
Patroklus Murakami agrees the new portal is the best place for all this information to be stored
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Arria ? a wiki lacks a lot of functionality and organisation, which has to be created from scratch; the current portal will have that all built-in, so it will be way easier to navigate, update, and cross-reference.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘current’ as in: the portal in development hehe
Arria Perreault: If you agree to use the portal as the main support for infirmation, we will have to inform quickly the citizen
Rubaiyat Shatner: so I am in favor of the transition, but want to point out that a wiki can be very quick to respond to new requirements, I don’t want to see lock in here, but am willing to put aside my concerns at this moment
Rubaiyat Shatner: I am also willing to help where I can
Justice Soothsayer: Excellent, Ruba!
Arria Perreault: thank you 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I think the major problem with the current wiki was a technological one 😉
Justice Soothsayer: Anything else on portal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should establish timelines…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. what is more important first
Sudane Erato: aren’t these administrative functions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: namely, I remember that Arria & Alex are still working on their own server 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn winks at Sudane and blames herself for that too
Arria Perreault: I will make a proposal to solve this situation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Arria!…
Jamie Palisades grins
Justice Soothsayer: Arria, you also wanted to mention the ball, I believe.
Jamie Palisades: I will look forward to hearing that transition plan too, Arria
Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready for the ball! lol
Arria Perreault: yes, Jamie 🙂
Jamie Palisades: (so is Justice — all duded up)
Arria Perreault: about the ball. I think that it is an event of the new term
Arria Perreault: we need to vote a budget to organize it, if you agree
Arria Perreault: all the work has been done
Arria Perreault: Many thanks to Rose and Sudane
Justice Soothsayer: And we need to thank Rose,Sudane & Arria for that!
Rose Springvale smiles…
Gwyneth Llewelyn thanks the whole organisation 🙂
Jamie Palisades: Is there anything out of the ordinary? 😀 or an expense that should be mentioned here?
Arria Perreault: we need a budget of 3500 L$ for the DJ
Moon Adamant: thanks! 🙂
Rose Springvale: your job is to finish this meeting in time to go 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose!
Justice Soothsayer chuckes @ Rose
Arria Perreault: 🙂
Sudane Erato: i think its perfectly reasonable for this expense to be rolled into the upcoming budget… to be approved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What else is needed budget-wise, Arria?
Jamie Palisades: Madame Treasurer .. we cna afford it, no?
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “barely”, Jamie 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Arria Perreault: if the Chancellor and the Treasurer can solve this question, I would appreciate
Justice Soothsayer: Very well. Let’s leave it for the treasurer to sort into the right category.
Sudane Erato: yes… np 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Any other business?
Gwyneth Llewelyn second Arria’s proposed budget.
Jamie Palisades: 🙂 Unnecessary as i;s beenapproved Gwyn, but as you like to say
Jamie Palisades: .. the RA can do what it wants 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll note we are a little over time here.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: … not to make light of it .. Sudane and I had some preliminary chats last term, including with the RA, to begin bringing some rigour to budgeting. The RA should expect that work, and the amount of information and planning, to continue to increase 🙂
Justice Soothsayer wants to keep Rose happy.
Rose Springvale smiles and notes she has yet to change…
Justice Soothsayer: It seems that the Treasurer and Chancellor are prepared to handle this as part of the regular budget expenses.
Justice Soothsayer: So let us move on to the final item on the agenda. Our rules call for a period of open discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: Anyone — RA members or not — have anything they would like to contribute?
Rose Springvale: i’d like to commend the landscapers of LA
Rose Springvale: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Jamie Palisades claps
Sudane Erato blushes
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, thanks to everyone who’s helped to make it a reality (virtuality?)
Jon Seattle: yay! 🙂 it does look good.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we’re the “inverted L” sim cluster 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn wants a Greek sim next… then an Egyptian one…
Jon Seattle laughs —
Gwyneth Llewelyn suggests a motion to adjourn…
Rose Springvale: oh gwyn, have we got a deal for you….
Jon Seattle: the iota cluster? almost ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh…. Rose?
Rose Springvale: smiles
Rose Springvale: later 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll second the motion to adjourn.
Justice Soothsayer: All in favor?
Justice Soothsayer votes aye.
Rubaiyat Shatner: yes adjourn
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Bells Semyorka: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Justice Soothsayer: We are adjourned. Arria, where do we assemble for the ball?
Brian Livingston needs to figure otu what he’s goign to wear.. hmm
Arria Perreault: aye
Ulysse Alexandre applauds
Jamie Palisades: see you in 15, all 🙂
Rose Springvale: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: sorry, wont be able to go 🙁
Brian Livingston: Hehe
Flyingroc Chung: rl calls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww FR
Rose Springvale: 🙁 FRC
Flyingroc Chung: bye!
Justice Soothsayer: Thank you everyone for an excellent start of term!
Rose Springvale: thanks Justice!
Bells Semyorka: Bye FRC
The meeting closed at 10:49 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting – 31 August 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 7 September 2008

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RA Meeting – 14 September 2008

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RA Meeting – 28 September 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 12 October 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 26 October 2008

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RA meeting 26 October 2008 TRANSCRIPT

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1 post • Page 1 of 1
RA meeting 26 October 2008 TRANSCRIPT

Postby Publius Crabgrass » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:39 pm
Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1
Region: Colonia Nova (246528, 250112)
Local-Position: (13, 165, 41)

Meeting on 2008-10-26
Those present:
Justice Soothsayer is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer: be right back
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Sonja, Jamie.
Pip Torok: hi JS hi Sonja
Sonja Strom: Hi Pip, Hi everybody
Pip Torok: hi Divine pleased to meet you!
Sonja Strom: Hi Divine, welcome.
DivineLolita Demonia: heya sonja
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: Good morning, everyone.
DivineLolita Demonia: thank you pip
DivineLolita Demonia: heya
Justice Soothsayer: Hi Jamie
Pip Torok: hi jamie!
Jamie Palisades: Morning Pip – well virtual morning anyway
Jamie Palisades: Love the hat Su
Sudane Erato: thx 🙂
Pip Torok: 1st time ive seen you wear one Su!
Jamie Palisades: Justice, nice to see you. DId I imss anything by not auditing the CDSF meeting yesterday?
Justice Soothsayer: Not much, Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: my apologies for beig late… timezone problems lol
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You missed all our secret plans, Jamie 😉
Pip Torok: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Sonja Strom: aha!!
Sonja Strom: Now the truth comes out!
Sonja Strom: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 😉
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll wait another minute or two before starting, if thats OK with everyone, to ensure we have a quorum
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that.
Jamie Palisades: If you really want ‘secret plans’, Gwyn, dear, you really ought to have someone build walls for that church ruin.
Jamie Palisades: As CSDF’s next door neighbor, when I rez in world (my home being NFS), if they’re around and feel like “dropping in” on a meeting, I can just fly through the hole in the roof …
Sonja Strom: perfect!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe but that’s the whole point 🙂
Sonja Strom: Who built the hangglider pad above AM?
Justice Soothsayer: Well, folks, it seems we will not have a quorum, but that might be OK since we don’t have anything to vote on today,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That might explain why nobody came hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nobody besides YOU all!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok: Dont know Sonja … but could sure use it!
Justice Soothsayer: Bells has said she must be abesent and asked for a 7-day vote, if we do have to vote on anything.
Sudane Erato: i hang glided yesterday 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, ok
Justice Soothsayer: So let’s get started.
Sonja Strom: me too!
Jamie Palisades smiles
Sonja Strom: Hello Arria
Sonja Strom: It was fun.
Sonja Strom: Hello Rose
Justice Soothsayer: Ah, a quorum!
Pip Torok: time i got into the action then!
Arria Perreault: Hi! Sorry: tme has changed
Rose Springvale: hello
Pip Torok: hi Arria Hi Rose
Rose Springvale: does anyone mind if i send a group notice?
Justice Soothsayer: The agenda is on the table in the notecard dispenser amphora thingy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn waves at Rose and obviously doesn’t mind
Justice Soothsayer: Please note that the meeting is being transcribed and tocuh the recorder on the table to indicate your consent.
Jamie Palisades: Pleas do routinely, Rose. Citizens — particulalrly new ones — seem to like to know when the RA meetings.
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: occur.
Rose Springvale: i’ve sent one already, but with the time change i thought it might be helpful.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point, Jamie.
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Rose.
Justice Soothsayer: Does anyone have any changes to the proposed agenda?
Jamie Palisades: sorry, posted where?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just some ‘announcements’ regarding the committes, but that can be on the last point (c. Open Discussion)
Justice Soothsayer: Agenda is posted on the forums under Announcements, and is also in the notecard dispenser on the table.
Jamie Palisades: ty
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: Hearing no other changes, let’s move on. Does anyone not on the RA wish to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Jamie Palisades: me on II a (new sim) please
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* I thought so…!
Jamie Palisades: oh and I d briefly
Justice Soothsayer: Noted
Jamie Palisades: Thank you for your snicker, madame senator 🙂 I’ll save mine for now
Justice Soothsayer: Get all your snickers while trick-or-treating on Friday, please.
Justice Soothsayer: MOving on to Item I d, future RA meeting times.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Justice Soothsayer: We have been meeting at least every 2 weeks, and I would propose to do the same thing next month
Justice Soothsayer: unless events dictate meeting more frequently.
Justice Soothsayer: So that would have us meeting on 9 November and 23 November, and avoiding the US Thanksgiving Day weekend at the end of the month.
Justice Soothsayer: Will that work for everyone’s schedules?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, clever.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it works for me, yes (I hope!)
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: yes?
Jamie Palisades: comment on Id?
Justice Soothsayer: you wanted to speak on I d?
Jamie Palisades: Only this, to reinforce my PIO’s comments earlier
Jamie Palisades: We get a LOT of requests for RA meeting times
Jamie Palisades: people want to come watch
Jamie Palisades: especiually newbies
Justice Soothsayer: Excellent!
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the proposal of announcing the RA meetings more, either via notices, IMs, etc…
Jamie Palisades: of which we have four or five this month, BTW, mostly due to Ofest publicityy
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: that means I want something from you 😀
Jamie Palisades: reliable dates and times set in advance
Pip Torok: can i suggest RA dates AND times routinely go on group notices?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll also mention that Rose suggested (a GREAT idea) that we have an open coffee hour on the Sundays when the RA doesn’t meet.
Jamie Palisades: and posted on our calendar 😀
Jamie Palisades: so as to dates, if you can fixe them now for a few months that would be GREAT for our recruiting …
Jamie Palisades: and the coffe hour idea is, well 🙂
Jamie Palisades grins at Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: very much so 🙂
Jamie Palisades: simply a way to obey the ignored law that we have government uquetsion hours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: where would that be?
Sudane Erato: will we serve coffee?
Pip Torok: hi Delia!
Jamie Palisades: how about the biergarten?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, and cakes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha an excellent choice 😉
Delia Lake: hi everyone. still rezzing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Delia!
Sonja Strom: Hi Delia
Jamie Palisades: the law we have ignored authorizes me to set that up, I thikn, so I will sned out the relevant announcements, unless someone here wants to change that law 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: So sticking with the one per fortnight, we could do 7 December and 21 December
Justice Soothsayer: Does that work for everyone?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees
Pip Torok: cunningly well! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, so not earlier? in November I mean?
Pip Torok: Symo! … hi …
Justice Soothsayer: with our meeting dates fixed for Nov & Dec, that frees up some dates for Rose/JAmie to schedule other events on the alternating Sundays
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Justice.
Sonja Strom: hi Symo
Jamie Palisades: excellent
Jamie Palisades: however
Jamie Palisades: for tiume zone reasons
Jamie Palisades: i may not suggest they ALL occur at the same time of day, hm?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or do it twice in a day?
Justice Soothsayer: Lets move on – I have to leave around 10:30.
Justice Soothsayer: Item II a is New Guild report includind discussion of proposed new sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, and the Guild will complain if we take too long hehe
Sonja Strom: Hi Naftali
Naftali Torok: evening friends
Justice Soothsayer: Anybody here to report from the Guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
Pip Torok: hi Naf!
Delia Lake: hi Nafti, hi Symo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did the Guild already meet about that?
Rose Springvale: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought not, they would meet today?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
Rose Springvale: there is a meeting at 11
Justice Soothsayer: We may be premature on this, since the Guild is scheduled to meet @ 11 today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we should raise a minor procedural matter first 😉
Justice Soothsayer: Whats that, Gwyn?
Sonja Strom: Hi Flyingroc!
Sonja Strom: Hi Timo!
Justice Soothsayer: Hiya Hokie!
Sonja Strom: welcome
Naftali Torok: hi roc, hi timo
Pip Torok: hi flyingroc hi Timo
Timo Gufler: hello everyone
Arria Perreault: Hi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi FR 🙂
Delia Lake: hi FR
Rose Springvale: timo, welcome!
Jamie Palisades: Do tell, madame senator …
Rose Springvale: hi frc !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Timo! 😀
Pip Torok: (might run out of seats soon! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, sorry, got carried away lol
Flyingroc Chung: hello
Rose Springvale: we can get more!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… this is more a request for Arria really… may I point out NL 8-2, http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=214
Timo Gufler: somehow this reminds me of Finnish sauna 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm the relevant point here:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.
Arria Perreault: I have all informations almost ready
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, these ‘broad guidelines’ were presented by Arria… but in a scattered format,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Arria,
Jamie Palisades: ( Yikes, Timo – no,but here we have other ways to generate heat and smoke 😀 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it would nice to have them as a document!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or a forum post
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a single place where all the ‘guidelines’ are clearly laid out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that we don’t need to ‘fish for information’, looking at chat transcripts, forum posts, etc
Arria Perreault: due to change hour I am a bit late …, I am working on it right now 🙂
Jamie Palisades smiles – if we are on that point, Mr LRA , I will still ask to address it when convenient.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the information is “out there”, just not on a single place 🙂
Arria Perreault: I have also a map
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all from me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Arria!
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, you wanted to address this matter, so go ahead.
Arria Perreault: should I give these informations now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (if you have them why not? 🙂 )
Arria Perreault: in the latest version of the proposal, we have taken in account every remark in thr forums
Justice Soothsayer: Arria, I think the point is that it would be good to assemble it all into one document, with map.
Arria Perreault: not in a ready form 🙁
Arria Perreault: I am doing this right now
Jamie Palisades: Let me just note that Arria has at each stage provided everything we asked her to provide, thus far. The RA’s decision to apply NL 8-2 added new requirements of which I think no one informed her. So, as far as I am concerned, she’s timely. This material now will go to the Guild under NL 8-2 for their reactions.
Justice Soothsayer: Is this on the New Guild agenda for 11 am today?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Jamie Palisades: At your last meeting Miss Llewelyn opine dthat the Guild would act quickly 🙂 I have asked for a thougtful and independent review by them, for the sake of prudence. Do we have any sense of their availability plans or timing, from any Guild members?
Timo Gufler: sorry I must return to RL now 🙁 see you later…
Sudane Erato: Moon proposes the agenda
Jamie Palisades: Cheers Timo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye Timo!)
Rose Springvale: I’m sure it will be on the Agenda
Rose Springvale: but we’ve not seen that yet.
Arria Perreault: I can present the project now
Justice Soothsayer: Anything new to add to what has already been discussed, Arria?
Jamie Palisades: I would be skeptical, sorry, if the Guild acted this morning on information received this morning. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guild agenda so far: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2170 (look at point 1)
Jamie Palisades: The review is supposed ot be in the nature of feasibility and fit — which I’d expect would require at least a litle reading and thought.
Rose Springvale: Moon generally establishes a work group for such review
Jamie Palisades: (Although it goes form them to the executive, and you can be cofortable we will do so, in any case.)
Arria Perreault: she proposed me that this group be Virtus
Jamie Palisades: Excuse me?
Jamie Palisades: The Guild wishes to have the independent review of Virtus’ project done by Virtus?
Arria Perreault: not for the review
Arria Perreault: for doing the job, sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, from the Guild’s agenda: 1. Monastery sim – Assessment of current work, definition of workgroup, planning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so definitely a workgroup is planned to be created for this.
Justice Soothsayer: Lets not jump the gun, it seems this should be left to the Guild for now
Arria Perreault: Ladies and gentlemen, I could provide all the informations
Arria Perreault: I can show the plan
Jamie Palisades: Justicem forgive me, but I think Gwyn’s point was that the information Arria has SHOULD be given to the RA at this stage and THEN to the Guild (under NL 8-2). So, respectfully, you might want at least to permit a brief summary and delivery .
Jamie Palisades raises huis eyebrow at the flower-wearing orange haired senator. No?
Justice Soothsayer: If its ready, by all means, go ahead Arria.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be glad to see what’s available of course!
Arria Perreault: here is the map in relief
Justice Soothsayer notes for the transcript that Arria has just rezzed a topo map
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh nice!
Arria Perreault: do you see something?
Symo Kurka: nope i do not
Jamie Palisades: I do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do, it took a bit though!
Sonja Strom: I do
Jamie Palisades: a terrain map
Arria Perreault: yes
Delia Lake: Arria, where exactly is this sim designed to fit? next to AM?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To the west of AM, yes.
Jamie Palisades: arria, in that map, the neufreistadt corner is the far high corner, and the lower left edge is the border with Locus Ameonus, yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or south of Locus Amoenus
Arria Perreault: you can see the place where the Monastery is
Arria Perreault: yes, Jamie
Sonja Strom: Hi Ria, welcome.
Arria Perreault: then we propose that the six plots are in a fishing village near the sea
Pip Torok: hi ria
Jamie Palisades: so te new Monastery would be at *appromistaely* the same elevation as the old one.
Ria Boucher: hello all
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Ria!
Delia Lake: hi Ria
Arria Perreault: yes, Monastery will be at the same level
Arria Perreault: the the river which goes to LA come from this lake
Rose Springvale: arria, if you have a texture that is copiable, several people still can’t see the map.
Rose Springvale: i’ll hand it out if you give ot me
Rose Springvale: to*
Arria Perreault: and the lake comes from a small cascade which is under the Monastery
Symo Kurka: where is north arria?
Arria Perreault: the lake can be a skate area for the winter
Arria Perreault: north is lake side
Arria Perreault: sea is west
Arria Perreault: Ulysse is now designing a ski or sled slop in the east part, near AM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the map shows somewhat how it would look like if you’d be in Locus Amoenus, looking upwards the mountain towards Neufreistadt…
Arria Perreault: he is a great specialist of ski in SL
Arria Perreault: yes, Gwyn
Jamie Palisades: so the rented lands would circle the lake? Heh heh Lausanne, n’est ce pas?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Arria Perreault: no, in front of the sea
Jamie Palisades: where is the sea?
Arria Perreault: where is the red square
Jamie Palisades: oh
Jamie Palisades: hm
Justice Soothsayer: lakefront might be marketable, eh?
Jamie Palisades: well we will need to chat with the Guild about the rentability and feasibility of this 🙂 All of teh UNrented land we have left in LA has the same configuration … and yet all of the mountain hillside land in AM always sells.
Arria Perreault: yes, but sea front also
Arria Perreault: and lake can be a recreationnal area
Arria Perreault: I am rezzing the two other plans
Jamie Palisades: just to be clear about the map : the lower right edge, which faces um West, would touch sea level at 20 metres? Like the west edge of LA does now?
Arria Perreault: the map
Jamie Palisades: ah – yes, – the left picture answers my question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that one has a better orientation!
Jamie Palisades: gads. Mr LAR it seems to me that any reactions about the lots size or etc and better saved for the Guild? What’s your wish regarding deeper chat at this time?
Arria Perreault: on the right and left maps, north is above
Jamie Palisades: &LRA
Arria Perreault: now the plots
Arria Perreault: as you can see, we have not 6 plots but 7
Pip Torok: hi Pat
Sonja Strom: Hi Patroklus
Arria Perreault: the 6 plots near the sea will form a small fishing village
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Pat
Delia Lake: hi Pat
Symo Kurka: just to be sure… where is NFS border in the LEFT map?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and jamie… this is the ‘rough guidelines’ that the RA proposes to the Guild… the Guild will then work from that and do a more complete/changed plan
Sudane Erato: there is no NFS border… only a corner
Arria Perreault: we have taken the remark concerning Virtus and we propose that Virtus rent a plot that correspond to the Library of the Monastery
Sudane Erato: the lower right corner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then the Executive will finish it up 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone 🙂
Delia Lake: the highest elevation corner would touch the corner of NFS
Arria Perreault: If I take all the informations in the right order:
Arria Perreault: (i) the rough number of plots

6 normal plots
1 plot for NGO Virtus corresponding to Monastery Library
Rose Springvale: someone needs to look at the openspace load issue with all of these plans in one open space sim
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: definitely, Rose!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure there is enough know-how on that at the Guild 😉
Arria Perreault: (ii) the range of sizes of plots

1×512 msq
one plot corresponding to Monastery Library
Arria Perreault: (iii) price and affordability

6 plots 512 msq/250 prims/12 US$ month fees
1 plot NGO corresponding to Monastery Library /15 US$
Arria Perreault: (iv) single/double prim

double prim
Arria Perreault: (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land

40% of the prims for private use
10% of the prims ffor the NGO use (plot)
50% of the prims ffor public use
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh pretty thorough homework already… 😉
Arria Perreault: (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre

The Monastery
Symo Kurka: Humm
Arria Perreault: (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory

lake and skating area for winter
ski or sled slope for winter
maybe a bridge
Gwyneth Llewelyn sees already Syno thinking deeply 😉
Symo Kurka: Hum hum
Arria Perreault: any questions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Justice Soothsayer: I’m a little time-sensitive this morning; lets wrap this up with no more than 5 mins of Q&A/discussion, please
Sonja Strom raises hand
Symo Kurka: just one question arria, may i?
Arria Perreault: ok
Justice Soothsayer: Sonja first, then Symo
Symo Kurka: would it be possible to have the left map joined to AM and LA maps, so we get a general idea?
Symo Kurka: of borders coherence…
Arria Perreault: we have made measure
Arria Perreault: every ten meters
Arria Perreault: the border with AM is exact
Gwyneth Llewelyn: brb
Arria Perreault: same for LA
Symo Kurka: no doubt…
Symo Kurka: but it would be helpful seeing what is on the other side(s)
Arria Perreault: I must ask Ulysse
Symo Kurka: (sorry sonja i notice i’m overtaking you)
Symo Kurka: (no more questions)
Justice Soothsayer: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: it’s ok 🙂
Sonja Strom: Arria, from the discussion so far I am wondering if you would be willing to have this sim be created to the East of Alpine Meadow?
Arria Perreault: as I have told in the forums, I think it is an emergency to fill this visual gap. I see this as a synergy
Pip Torok: why so, Sonja?
Arria Perreault: but if RA will, we can build on the other side
DivineLolita Demonia: sorry.. i must go.. thank you for letting me sit in and listen… see you all…
Arria Perreault: we have to reverse the map
Sonja Strom: Bye Divine
Pip Torok: see you DLD
Sonja Strom: Pip, there are a couple of issues I see, that I think that could address.
Pip Torok: but why, Sonja?
Arria Perreault: yes, why?
Sonja Strom: I like this project, but it is going against the Master Plan’s concept for the area.
Justice Soothsayer: OK folks, I need to step in here.
Symo Kurka: ????
Sonja Strom: OK Justice.
Justice Soothsayer: (1) time is up, and (2) how this proposal fits with the plan is expressly what the NG is to give us feedback on.
Arria Perreault: As Symo as told in the forum, GMP is a guide line
Justice Soothsayer: And I want to allow sufficient time for Chancellor’s report
Sonja Strom: I had more I could say, but am following Justice’s leadership.
Justice Soothsayer: Sorry, Sonja
Justice Soothsayer: Guild at 11.
Sonja Strom: No problem, just wanted it to be stated.
Justice Soothsayer: (like “film at 11”, but more fun)
Justice Soothsayer: OK, folks, marching ever forward…. the Flag Bill is on our agenda next, but mainly as a placeholder for further consideration when a consensus is built, IMHO.
Pip Torok: agree
Justice Soothsayer: Any objection to moving on to Chancellor’s report?
Justice Soothsayer: and many thanks, Arria, for the excellent work!
Arria Perreault: thank you
Arria Perreault: can I go to the Guild with these informations?
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, please do, Arria (speaking for myself)
Arria Perreault: ok
Pip Torok: and for me …
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Justice Soothsayer: So….
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie…
Justice Soothsayer: you’re up.
Jamie Palisades: Chancellor report, Justice?
Justice Soothsayer: Please.
Jamie Palisades smiles – very well. Thanks.
Jamie Palisades: Good morning. I have five items. 1. As Sonja is here, may I just remind you of her appointment as land caretaker, and tell you she has been doing a great, diligent job. Thanks again, Sonja.
Gwyneth Llewelyn claps 🙂
Jamie Palisades waves across the room
Sonja Strom: Weclcome 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay! 🙂
Symo Kurka: clap
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear
Pip Torok applauds
Jamie Palisades: 2. Publicity and events. We are enjoying a small influx of new citizens thanks mostly to oktoberfest, events and PR. Rose and Sudane and I are owrkingto orient them. (Although te current land system prevents us from getting to them or learning about them in a timely manner.) So far, so good — in terms of our theory that events create PR and that generates newcomers. Kudos to many, lead by our co-PIO Rose.
Jamie Palisades: You saw one this morning, Timo 🙂
Jamie Palisades nods at Rose, behind him
Sudane Erato: yay Rose ! 🙂
Rose Springvale looks up and blushes
Jamie Palisades: 3. Land sales and vacancies. This generally is not going as well as I would like, although it is not catastrophic and not at a low point statiscally for CDS. I have posted some comments about that in the forums. I expect in 2 weeks to bring you several propsoed changes to the law about land sales and rent payment laws. Between now and then I will talk to the factions and post some public suggestions for review.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: excellent work then!!!
Symo Kurka: claps
Jamie Palisades: You can find my post on vacancies on today’s Forum postings.
Jamie Palisades: I have not yet posted to the Forum on some other views, but let me share them here.
Jamie Palisades: AM sold fast.
Jamie Palisades: It is Alpine theme, a pretty (and unusual for SL) hillside, and had small lots in the mix.
Jamie Palisades: We got LOTS of great NEW people from it.
Jamie Palisades: A success to me.
Jamie Palisades: LA? Well, the economy is different – but also
Jamie Palisades: Roman theme
Jamie Palisades: Flattish
Jamie Palisades: SO far a large propoprtion of sales to prior residents who move there are out of old space
Jamie Palisades: Not a net fiscal gain for us, when that happens.
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: WE need to think about WHAT we sell next
Arria Perreault: Jamie, I have a question
Jamie Palisades grins – one of the reasons I like that hilly map over there (pointing at Arria’s cvharts)
Moon Adamant: hello all :))
Flyingroc Chung: are the old polts not selling?
Sonja Strom: Hi Moon
Rose Springvale: hi Moon 🙂
Pip Torok: hi moon
Arria Perreault: Hi Moon
Delia Lake: hi Moon 🙂
Jamie Palisades: As I posted to the Forums, Roc, due to CDS’ Direct Land Sales Act anyoen can see what is not sold 🙂
Jamie Palisades: I believ ethat hurts us and will proposed change next month by the way.
Patroklus Murakami: old plots are not selling FR. i’ve had one on the market for months. it will be abandoned tomorrow if it doesn’t go…
Jamie Palisades: But note this trend
Jamie Palisades: MOst of the recent sales? NFS turnover
Jamie Palisades: those fachwerken and scenic places get bought fast
Jamie Palisades: practiclaly always
Jamie Palisades: Arria has a question?
Jamie Palisades: ((Justice I am halfway through FYI)
Jamie Palisades: (so I may ask to hold Qs for the end after ARria)
Arria Perreault: yes, about CN. I have notices that some plots are for sale. Is it an opportunity to start the plan for economical development?
Justice Soothsayer: OK Jamie. I have to leave promtply @ `1030 but meeting could continue in my absence I suppose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’d have to get an acting LRA?
Justice Soothsayer: or just meander leaderless, Gwyn
Jamie Palisades: Arria, in a VERY short answer, yes. By RA act I must report to you on 15 November on this 🙂
Jamie Palisades: And you are EXACTLY right
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: to finish
Arria Perreault: great 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn also reminds the members that the Guild has requested that the RA doesn’t stretch their meetings beyond the hour, so that the Guild has a quorum…
Jamie Palisades: I wil share any further thoughts about 5th Sim (Locus Arria?) with the Guild 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jamie Palisades smiles
Jamie Palisades: 4. Expansion. I do not expect to propose new sims for the next few months, as I believe the economic market for unrented land is uncertain. However, there are three other avanuees for us to explore. (a) Arria’s proposal. (b) Potentially feasible acquisiton of another void or two for scenuic and perhaps NGO uses. (c) Potential adjoinment with Al Andalus, a region which has a number of citizens jointly with CDS (I see several here, and I am one), along the lines they have discussed on a nonbinding basis in their own government planning discussions.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: As to (a), it’s Well underway, as we heard. Arria, thank you again for all of your work, and offering to share the risk.
Arria Perreault: not Locus Arria, Monastery
Jamie Palisades: 😀 …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
Jamie Palisades: As to (b) I believe it wil lprove feasible economically but wanted to confirm the Virtus sim orientation and economics first — on which we’re almost done — and confer twith the GUild — which has not met much lately, so I hope that to be a Npvember conversation.
Jamie Palisades: …
Moon Adamant: we’ll start discussing the sim today
Jamie Palisades: thanks 🙂
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: As to (c), I think it would be unseemly for CDS to rush in like a colonizing conquistador. I suspect they will come to us, looking at us an option. If that happens so I think it;s the best way to proceed. I believ we would need to make our local governance methods more attractive to be attractuie to them — or indeed, to ANY future merger or acquisiton sim estates, few of who I expcet woud happily just turn over their assets by giving unlimited power to strangers. (Us.)
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: SO I also expect during November to propose some slight improvements to the stability and localization aspects of our current system. We’ll see. I have high hopes.
Jamie Palisades: For our attractiveness, but also for this government’s flexibility.
Patroklus Murakami: maybe we should see some info on (c) before rushing to judgement? since, as far as i know, it’s the first time this idea has been aired publicly?
Jamie Palisades: As I said: we’ll see.
Justice Soothsayer: So no hostile takeover of Caledon, what?
Pip Torok: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet!
Sudane Erato: awwww 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll get there!
Jamie Palisades: I agree 🙂 No action is sought. I;m sorry, not quite finished. DId CSDF wish to do something at the monment Pat?
Jamie Palisades: ..
Patroklus Murakami: what do you mean?
Jamie Palisades: hearing onthing then ..
Jamie Palisades: oh well – you spoke up “) may I continue?
Jamie Palisades: Mindful of Justice’ time constaints …
Jamie Palisades: 5. Finally, a minor item. During octoberfest I expanded the main CDS information center by simply donating my own lot next door. Everyone seems to like it. I will propose that the RA at its next meeting approve a swap, wherein i personally give CDS that lot permanently, and trade it for the one across the Platz that’s underused as a “store for citizens”. The few citizen vendors we have can be moved into the expanded location, or elsewhere, fairly easily. No — we have no conflict on interest laws in CDS 🙁 so I as chancellor in fact would be permitted to do this myself! Even though it’s my land 🙁 But that’s not how we should work.
Jamie Palisades: SO I will ask the RA to approve the swap at its next meeting.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m just commenting on your ‘we ought to do this’ comment thrown in to your report. no plan from anybody contained in my comments 🙂
Jamie Palisades: If not I will restore the old bldg as is. in two weeks 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Jamie. I see you’ve reached item 5 of 5.
Jamie Palisades: I sam not yet ready to say we ought to do anything with AA Pat, other than talk to them, and listen.. ideally, more of the latter than the former.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: seems peaceful enough, the tourism office was a great idea
Jamie Palisades: Thanks Gywn, got good pings on the objects there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as for AA… hehe…. ‘let’s open conversations’, that’s all I can say for now 😉
Justice Soothsayer: Though 4(c) is a humdinger.
Jamie Palisades: thanks mostly to Rose’s concerts 😀 events evente events
Pip Torok: like JS must leave now
Jamie Palisades: ?me smiles plesantly – As we are a faction centric system I expetc to be taking to each faction that will chat with me about AA in the next two weeks.
Flyingroc Chung: I need to go as well
Justice Soothsayer: Yup, Pip.
Justice Soothsayer: But I’ll be glad to let the discussion continue without me, as there is nothing to vote on.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: what approach have you had from AA jamie?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll just ask Gwyn to return the recording device to me at the end of the meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Justice Soothsayer: Very interesting report, Jamie. I;ll look forward to elaboration in the forums.
Jamie Palisades notes Pat’s Q and is waiting for the post-meeting amenities – we can go on a few mins informally, hmn?
Justice Soothsayer: Sorry I have to depart.
Jamie Palisades: Thanks Justice
Moon Adamant: bye Justice, and thanks
Jamie Palisades: OK
Jamie Palisades: iunformal chat, about AA
Jamie Palisades: I note there are multiple conflicts of interest here
Jamie Palisades: many CDS citizens own there, among other things
Jamie Palisades: including me
Jamie Palisades: they were established by CDS citizens
Jamie Palisades: who could have doen it within CDS
Arria Perreault: – Map of the 4 sims is rezzing (for Symo) 😉 –
Jamie Palisades: but then I suppose Cedar Isalnd, SLNE and others “could have” as well, so no crticism of any one
Jamie Palisades: for that matter 🙂
Jamie Palisades: any number of ventures of our citizens could have attached to CDS
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
Jamie Palisades: Arria is good enough to suggest it
Jamie Palisades: others preferred to go their own way
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: before AA
Jamie Palisades: let me say
Jamie Palisades: ‘I;m talking to some others too
Jamie Palisades: if we have a citizen doing cool stuff
Jamie Palisades: why NOIT ask the if it would work well attached to CDS?
Jamie Palisades: *ask them
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: courtest and diplomacy do NOT work by waving a flag
Jamie Palisades: imagine 🙂 if AI wanted to ask Gwyn and Moon’s Beta Tech to move this islands home to attach to us
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, but i don’t get the ‘why’. AA was set up independently of the CDS. and there’s nothing wrong with that. why an approach for ‘adjoinment’? what has been discussed?
Jamie Palisades: would they want us to TALk to them first?
Jamie Palisades: or just post a forum screed?
Jamie Palisades: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Moon Adamant: i would like to chime in when possible
Jamie Palisades points to the “conquistador” remarks earlier
Jamie Palisades: now as to AA
Jamie Palisades: it;s a year old
Jamie Palisades: its original plans were not fully realized
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure, Moon, we have no LRA ? but you’re fine to talk after Jamie’s finished 😉
Jamie Palisades: it is reorganzing
Jamie Palisades: Thank you madame boss in limbo 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jamie Palisades: (can we PLEASE get an official LRA-deputy law in place?)
Jamie Palisades: ahem 🙂 AA
Jamie Palisades: it is reorganzing
Jamie Palisades: there’s virtuous overlap
Jamie Palisades: they are interested in some of the same thigns as us, to wit:
Jamie Palisades: (a) selfgovernance experiments
Jamie Palisades: (b) string well executed and scenic themes
Jamie Palisades: *strong
Jamie Palisades: and (c) broadly speaking, nonprofit status
Jamie Palisades: there is no Gwyn for Beta , no Su for SLNE, no Jo for Cedar — just a nonprofit which intended to own in tryst
Jamie Palisades: trust
Jamie Palisades: btw
Jamie Palisades: for those who don;t know
Jamie Palisades: Our Rose fills that role for them, rather like Sudane does for CDS
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: we are sort of thematically compatible,
Jamie Palisades: but there also are incomptaibilities
Jamie Palisades: among which I see these
Patroklus Murakami: jamie, i think we need a ‘forum screed’ to set out what’s being proposed. it’s all very well for people to be talking to each other but we need some transparency in government. this is the first time most of us have heard about this idea
Jamie Palisades: (a) different theme andthey want to keep it – woud likely rject a plan that lets us change it, ever theorerically
Moon Adamant: I would say that Jamie is giving us all the info he can atm
Jamie Palisades: (b) A much more communtarian, Cedar Isle-like, much less fractious and triumphalist governmetn than CDS
Jamie Palisades: sorry, Pat, did you want to interrupr again? I can stop if you like
Jamie Palisades: oi fat I thikn I wikll
Jamie Palisades: 🙂 Let;’s give the Guild and Arria a chance to prepare
Jamie Palisades: they need it 🙂
Moon Adamant: may i speak then?
Patroklus Murakami: i thought we were able to ask question? do i have to wait for a while til you’re finished?
Jamie Palisades: and Pat – i will NOT make web postings about this until I have woprds I feel are APPROPRIATRW to CONSPICUOUS posting because — duh — AA reads the web tooi
Jamie Palisades: This is a prelimiary, iunformal meeting.
Jamie Palisades: Where we can talk more in an exploratory way 🙂
Jamie Palisades: Or not, acording to your taste, Pat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the sake of keeping order, I’d just sahy the following: let us listen to Jamie until the end, then Moon next, and finally Pat again
Jamie Palisades: I believ eI wil lresere any other coments and listen happil y to the veiws of others 🙂
Moon Adamant: ok
Moon Adamant: then i’ll start
Patroklus Murakami: umm. transparency? and jamie’s been talking since 10:30. when does anyone else get a word in? /me waits for moon…
Moon Adamant: first of all, i don’t think that AA and CDS sharing citizens invalidate any tentative of approach
Moon Adamant: that would be a bit like saying if you own land in NFS, you can’y own it in CN
Moon Adamant: i myself have a house in Cedar and an part of teh Cedar Community
Jamie Palisades: I objetc to Mr Muyrakami;s insinutaions. I expect civlity. You asked for a report. informally Or rather, the RA did., They have receievd as much of it as I have been POERMITTED to give civilly.
Moon Adamant: looking at the idea from a technical pov
Moon Adamant: which is as always my main concern
Moon Adamant: it would allow us to test Symo’s GMP notion of clusters
Moon Adamant: and that would be extremely interesting from an urbanistic pov
Moon Adamant: that’s it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Moon. pat?
Patroklus Murakami: i’d just like some transparency in govnt
Patroklus Murakami: this is the first time this idea has been publicly aired
Patroklus Murakami: yet it’s clear that some have been talking about it for a while
Patroklus Murakami: let’s have that out in the open, on the forums where all our citizens can read
Patroklus Murakami: let’s know waht the proposal is from AA
Jamie Palisades sighs at politics as usual: Mr former LRA, I invite you to give me detail on any matter where you think transparency is required or advisable and has not been provided. I ask you not to bandy about slurs if there aren’t any.
Patroklus Murakami: and what changes that might require in the CDS
Jamie Palisades: THERE IS NO PROPOSAL YET — clear enough?>
Patroklus Murakami: could i finish?
Patroklus Murakami: and i haven’t bandied any slurs
Jamie Palisades: Oh, sorry, are interrupotions inappropriate? 🙂
Jamie Palisades: in this informal chat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Patroklus Murakami: i believe i have the floor
Jamie Palisades: Indees sigh 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: it’s very disturbing that you react so badly to the request for openness
Patroklus Murakami: when there’s a proposal, let’s make it public
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Pat, it is my understanding that Jamie’s presentation today is not a ‘formal proposal’ but just an open announcement that some citizens here (and in the AA) are giving this idea some thought. Nothing more 🙂 So the ‘project’ is at Stage Zerol.
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all i’m asking for
Patroklus Murakami: well, one of the things that jamie said is that this would require changes to our structures to accomodate AA
Patroklus Murakami: that is a statement that sets lots of hares running!
Patroklus Murakami: and suggests that some thinking on the question has already been done
Patroklus Murakami: i’d just like us all to be on the same page so we can assess the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: it may well have merit
Patroklus Murakami: i haven’t written off the idea by any means
Patroklus Murakami: but let’s *see* it please 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all from me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok ty 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: any reply to that, jamie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, if not…
Jamie Palisades: Not at this place and time. I will consider what to say after being accused of lack of transparency for annouciung nascent ideas under development.
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just have a slight announcement, and then I’d move we adjourn, since the Guild requires some of the people here to attend 🙂
Rose Springvale: i’d like to make announcments too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been neglecting my duties in chairing the Election & the Ethics Committees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ok, Rose, you next 😉 )
Symo Kurka: Well let’s keep it smooth it’s not a crime talking about Sim merge
Delia Lake was thinking the same as Symo….
Jamie Palisades: IThe suggestion that the CURRENT government lacks openness .. from longtime CDS government people … gives me strange coughing fits that seem to impar my speaking ability 🙂 sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I’m suggesting to do a ‘long’ meeting of the Election Committee next Saturday or Sunday perhaps, and try to go through the three points not discussed yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that would be the one-before-last meeting of the Election Committee
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve clearly hit on a sore point 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the last one would be approving a document with recommendations,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and after that, it would be presented in the RA for open discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, please… your announcements 🙂
Jamie Palisades: Old wounds, son 🙂 SOme of us do not find sport in jupmign on them. .. Others want World of Statecraft 🙂

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RA Meeting – 9 November 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 23 November 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 7 December 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 21 December 2008

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting – 4 January 2009

Transcript needed

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RA Meeting 4 January 2009

RA meeting 4 January 2009 TRANSCRIPT
Summary:
The 9th RA of the CDS met on 4 January 2009 and:

• * heard reports from the New Guild and from the Chancellor
• * selected Gwyneth Llewellyn as the LRA pro tempore
• * adopted the Land Sales Reclamation Act, as amended
• * adopted the Land Sales Listing Improvement Act

January 4, 2009

Justice Soothsayer: we have a rather crowded agenda, and we have a quorum present, so lets get started on time.
Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
Arria Perreault: Hi Rubaiyat
Pip Torok: hi Arria! …
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: The agenda is located in the notecard dispenser on the table, and at viewtopic.php?f=2&p=12597
Justice Soothsayer: First item: please touch the recorder on the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer: Second item: is the proposed agenda acceptable?
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rubaiyat Shatner: yes, acceptable
Pip Torok: acceptable
Arria Perreault: ok
Justice Soothsayer: OK
Arria Perreault: Hi Kedwyn
Kedwyn Parmelee: hi
Pip Torok: hi Kedwyn!
Justice Soothsayer: IS there anyone not on the RA who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Timo Gufler: hi
Arria Perreault: Hi Timo
Symo Kurka: Hello Timo
Pip Torok: good to see you Timo …
Timo Gufler:
Justice Soothsayer: OK, moving on….
Justice Soothsayer: I just want to note that our next scheduled meeting is on 18 January , not 17 January as noted on the agenda
Lilith Ivory: hi moon
Moon Adamant: hi hi
Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn, Hi Moon, Hi Sonja
Lilith Ivory: am I sitting at your place?
Sonja Strom: Hi everybody
Justice Soothsayer: That will be after the polls are closed, I think, so we w ill have one last “lame duck” session.
Moon Adamant: and hello everyone
Pip Torok: hi moon
Timo Gufler: hi Moon and Sonja!
Justice Soothsayer: so we can really mess things up for the next RA.
Justice Soothsayer:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi everybody and Happy new Year!
Sonja Strom: Yay, Happy New Year!
Justice Soothsayer: The next item on our agenda is the selection of an LRA pro tempore (for this month). I was going to nominate Gwyn if she didn’t show up today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Rubaiyat Shatner: lol, the wheels of government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucky me, mmh?
Arria Perreault:
Justice Soothsayer: so the floor is open for any nominations. Anyone?
Moon Adamant: Happy New Year, everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: January will be a tough month for me…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, February will me *much worse*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Justice Soothsayer: it is only a 26 day term!
Arria Perreault: one or two meetings …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but 26 *rch* days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *rich even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: an election in the middle
Justice Soothsayer: I guess I’ll nominate Gwyn even though she did show up today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I vote against myself???
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, I will do that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay nay nay naaaay
Justice Soothsayer: twist arms of others, then, Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I hate to do that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Arria Perreault: I second this proposition
Justice Soothsayer: Any othern nominations?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Justice Soothsayer: Going once…
Arria Perreault: my arms are in pixels, np
Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her eyes*
Justice Soothsayer: ready for a vote? All in favor of Gwyn for LRA pro tempore?
Arria Perreault: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: N. A. Y.
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: :p
Rubaiyat Shatner: this frightens me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good
Pip Torok: hi rose
Justice Soothsayer: Nice to have a reluctant deputy leader. She won’t try to depose me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the owl staring at us, Ruba
Rose Springvale waves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, never!
Justice Soothsayer: Congrats, Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hiya Rose
Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean, “my deep feelings”?
Lilith Ivory: hi Rose
Justice Soothsayer: Item II b: report from Guild. Moon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn rezzes a coffin and goes 6 feet under
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: hm
Moon Adamant: well, the Guild on its last session
Moon Adamant: has decided to prepare a plan for re-deployment of CN City SE corner
Sonja Strom: Hi Solomon
Pip Torok: hi Solomon!
Solomon Mosely: morning
Moon Adamant: since we do have lots for sale there now
Moon Adamant: and a white elpehant in top of them
Justice Soothsayer: who is working on that plan, Moon? I’d like to prove some personal input.
Moon Adamant: this project will follow the usual proceeding
Moon Adamant: well, i have prepared a proposal for the reparcelling which will be discussed in the meeting after this one
Moon Adamant: if approved, then we’ll go through the steps of preparing a budget, etc
Arria Perreault: It’s a great idea. I ask me if it is not time to make some political decisions too
Pip Torok: ??
Arria Perreault: for example to decide that the redeployed area is commercial
Arria Perreault: we had this debat some months before about making some plots commercial
Justice Soothsayer: I guess related to that is my question: what is the status of our request for a report on rents (done in collaboration between Guild & Executive)?
Moon Adamant: uh
Arria Perreault: when there is a owner, it’s complicated
Moon Adamant: atm i can’t comment on those
Arria Perreault: now these plots are empty
Arria Perreault: I think that we have to discuss this question with the Chancellor who is working on the economic development plan
Moon Adamant: well, if that helps
Moon Adamant: all of teh area inside the city walls of CN is commercial/residential
Moon Adamant: with the stalls being only commercial
Arria Perreault: we can also decide that we allow to give some plces for rent in this area
Arria Perreault: the fact that all these plots are empty now is a unique chance to make changes
Pip Torok: hi Jamie!
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie!
Moon Adamant: well, definetely from the parcelling and building pov
Arria Perreault: a lot a designer would interested to rent a small shop, especially for roman stuff
Lilith Ivory: hi Jamie
Moon Adamant: hi Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just in time, Jamie, welcome!
Jamie Palisades nods, smiles, listens
Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
Jamie Palisades: I;m due at 930. Happy new year all. Did I miss the guild report, then?
Moon Adamant: yes
Arria Perreault: we are talking about redeployment
Arria Perreault: of CN
Moon Adamant: redeployment of CN’s city SE corner
Jamie Palisades: That would be the forrmer Emporio Romani and toga shop space?
Moon Adamant: yes
Arria Perreault: and I was asking if we can take this unique chance to make changes, especially with the economic development plan
Moon Adamant: uploading the image
Moon Adamant: there… it’s really not much
Moon Adamant: same number of parcels, but creation of a street
Moon Adamant: also some adjustment because of the Minerva temple
Jamie Palisades: it simply permits independent access to all lots from the main via, as opposed to the “cleopatra” alley, no?
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: also it forbids hmmm
Moon Adamant: the creation of a new emporium, but allows the creation of two large shops if parcels are joined
Moon Adamant: and resolves better the parcel hmm
Arria Perreault: One good idea would be that CDS keep the property of this land and give spaces for rent to open small shops
Moon Adamant: C-12
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh.oh, Arria…
Arria Perreault: Citizen cannot give places for rent, maybe CDS can
Jamie Palisades: Arria, if the RA elects in the future to allow rentals, which I support and Miss Llewelyn opposes on political ground, that would be a great use of the space. There’s a thread on this in the web forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, on constitutional grounds
Arria Perreault: we can adapt our laws
Jamie Palisades: easily amended by a wise RA, dear. However, we had a number of land, owner and sale reform ideas .. the first two are in your docket. Rent issues was another later one.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry folks. #$##$^^ laptop
Sonja Strom: lol
Rubaiyat Shatner: that was rather convenient after appointing gwyn
Jamie Palisades: hmm – I seem to have that brand of laptop, too
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Ruba
Justice Soothsayer: I trust the power didn’t go to her head
Rubaiyat Shatner: maybe it was a test…
Moon Adamant: mind you that the dock stalls in CN were never occupied
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so we have space for small shops already…
Moon Adamant: so i am not sure of the need for small shops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: small shops = more small sales = harder to fill in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, we have the ALtenburg quarter for that too?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, it’s not in CN…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it’s also waiting for redevelopment.
Arria Perreault: small shops are mainly used to advertise the biggest shop of a designer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, sure, but how small is small?
Arria Perreault: a nice choice of designers can be attractive
Moon Adamant: the altenburg quarter can support a commercial function, like i believe all the inner city of NFS
Rose Springvale tried that with the ER, great designers, no sales
Moon Adamant: but mind you that the biggest plot in Altenstadt will support only 90 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, even a tiny shop to “advertise” for a designer needs mmmh some 50-100 prims left
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in NFS, at least we can get “prim plots”
Moon Adamant: exactly, and you must take the building and props out of that
Jamie Palisades: the dock stalls had no traffic to support then, MoonGwyn
Arria Perreault: In Winterfell, they sell stuffs from Middle Age; In Roma stuffs from Roma
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I have a prime location on the Forum, and just 13 prims on t
Jamie Palisades: and I;m not sure you need 100 prims, seeing other suceeesful markets, GywnMoon
Justice Soothsayer: I should mention that I bought plot C15 when it came available, mainly to change it from a purveyor of sex beds. I’ll gladly contribute that parcel back to redevelopment as it adjoins the targeted corner.
Justice Soothsayer: *C16
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps not 100 but 50..
Moon Adamant: oh
Moon Adamant: let me see
Arria Perreault: same with my parcel
Jamie Palisades: hm
Rose Springvale: raises hand
Jamie Palisades: happy to go with the freeform chat for now, just listening
Moon Adamant: thank you both, but those plots aren’t part of the issue
Arria Perreault: I am ready to put it in the basket or to buy the parcel behind to make it bigger
Justice Soothsayer: just jump in for now, Rose
Rose Springvale: thanks justice
Arria Perreault: but the 2 parcels should be merged
Arria Perreault: C14 and C15
Rose Springvale: I tried several different marketing options in the ER
Moon Adamant: i mean, those plots are correct and ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale: and satir and i own the SDC roman outpost on the forum
Rose Springvale: sales here are dismal
Moon Adamant: well, Arria, that is an idea as well
Rose Springvale: regardless of the designer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Rose, very true
Rose Springvale: doesn’t seem to matter if the goods ar themed or not.. what DOES matter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We simply don’t have enough traffic; due to direct teleporting, people will go directly to where the events are, they don’t bother with shopping.
Rose Springvale: is that there is more than one or two shops to look in
Rose Springvale: even the toga shop brought traffic
Arria Perreault: I would like to build a real urban villa to sell the textures (mosaics, paintings)
Jamie Palisades: hm
Jamie Palisades: do we regret direct TP, Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, you know what I said back then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t changed my opinion
Jamie Palisades: certainly almost all serious commecial mall efforts in SL leverage it
Jamie Palisades: but we ran ito a different question here: which is, are we really a mall?
Pip Torok: hi Kattie welcome to our meeting
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Jamie Palisades:
Sonja Strom: Hi Kattie!
Kattie Belgar: hi
Moon Adamant: yes, just what i was thinking jamie
Moon Adamant: i am not sure that our primary function is a commercial one
Jamie Palisades: the last RA’s attempt to impose strong incentives for commercial land use was torpepoed by this RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: CSDF, really,, as I recall
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jamie Palisades: so I asume your answer f :no”
Moon Adamant: well, it did grant eminent domain to a private NGO
Jamie Palisades: thus, if we are not a mall, well, is commercial space irrelevant?
Moon Adamant: i am suure you wouldn’t like that Jamie
Jamie Palisades: no, it was an advisory role, and is moot now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Jamie, the CSDF is pro-encouragement of commercial activity, not pro-penalties towards the poor designers who scarcely make any sale
Moon Adamant: this is what i think
Justice Soothsayer: lets not re-hash that debate again and again
Moon Adamant: our main function essentially is a community function
Jamie Palisades: not sure Moon the majority of voters here seem to have been happy with “commercial” = moribund faction offices and the like. Vox populi vox dei.
Moon Adamant: most of our citizens have places elsewhere, but here we do meet
Moon Adamant: as we grow up, we’ll have a more fixed population
Jamie Palisades: yes indeed. The number of people who PRIMARILY live in CDS is oddly small .. even for political leaders
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh in that case, Moon, I’ll have to agree again with Arria’s proposal of “many small shops” then…
Moon Adamant: not necessarily
Solomon Mosely: raises hand
Moon Adamant: what i think is that our population isn’t sufficient atm to provide its own commercial traffic
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Jamie… *if* SL would be all a Big Mainland, the entire CDS would be the “city”, where events happen, but where few people would live… they’d be in teh suburbs
Jamie Palisades: /but we were talking about Guild, and the ER space – Moon did we step on your topic?
Arria Perreault: I am in favor of a clever commercial activity related to our themes
Moon Adamant: well, a bit
Moon Adamant:
Moon Adamant: i just have a proposal for approval at the Guild
Moon Adamant:
Arria Perreault: look at Roma or at Winterfee
Jamie Palisades listens , looks to the distinguished roman senator with the Superman cape for topic guidance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Justice Soothsayer: Time for guild discussion has gone beyond its schedule. Moon, do you want to add anything else efore Solomon gets a question?
Moon Adamant: no, nothing
Arria Perreault: Winterfell*
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Justice Soothsayer: Solomon?
Solomon Mosely: well, back to the use of those stalls,
Solomon Mosely: what if those stalls around the center and telehub housed satelite shops of existing cds shops with tps to main stores. and then we continue to offer those spaces for rent from the cds. that way the place looks full to potential renters as well as displays cds shops in obscure locations.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh.
Solomon Mosely: marketing of cds is a separate issue
Moon Adamant: that could be an use indeed, Solomon
Moon Adamant: though the fact is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, indeed.
Moon Adamant: that they’ve been standing there for two years +
Pip Torok: certainly something to consider
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Moon Adamant: and nobody has thought of that yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol true! nothing like fresh ideas
Solomon Mosely: you guys are inspiring
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually I think that you are inspiring, Solomon… that’s actually a pretty good idea.
Jamie Palisades: sorry, what’s been standing, moon?
Moon Adamant: the stalls and deck stalls at CN
Jamie Palisades: and I agree, a good strategy to test, thanks
Justice Soothsayer: OK, time is up on is agenda item. Can we move on to Chancellor’s report, since we have at least 2 bills to consider as well?
Rose Springvale: i think hte dock stalls are ful.. brian has a store there
Arria Perreault: yes, and wehave to find solutions for the empty plots first
Jamie Palisades: ready when you are, sir.
Justice Soothsayer waits for typing gestures to subside
Pip Torok: before we do that I suggest someone makes a proposal for the next RA concerning Solomon’s idea .. with the intention of trying it out ASAP
Arria Perreault: and the current owners of these stalls?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be happy to second a motion to let the Guild propose a project based on Solomon’s suggestion.
Moon Adamant: if no more questions for the Guild, i would like to go and prepare the meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that would fall into the label of “eminent domain”, Arria.
Solomon Mosely: if the structure is going to be cds owned do upgrades now tho
Justice Soothsayer: I think we can refer this to the Guild for further discussion, since today’s conversation was meant to give some input.
Arria Perreault: let’s ask the owner first
Jamie Palisades: Good question, Arria, but a review of the concept to develop it and see if it has merit, need not await ownership decisions.
Justice Soothsayer: Let’s move on to Jamie’s report, please.
Jamie Palisades: it might work in multiple places, in any case
Moon Adamant: ok, see you all in one hour then
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Moon Adamant: thank you all
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Moon.
Jamie Palisades: Thank you, Moon.
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, you have the floor.
Jamie Palisades: As she leaves, let me just ask: Guild today?
Justice Soothsayer: At 11, I think,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Jamie Palisades: thx
Jamie Palisades: OK.
Jamie Palisades: We’ve had a quiet month, albeit with successful music events (largely atended by nonresidents, and we continue to get a few prospects for new residents from each one.)
Jamie Palisades: A quick show of hands question on that
Jamie Palisades: some estates send out a blue screen welcome notice for each new permanent resident
Jamie Palisades: I rather like that
Jamie Palisades: I was counsuled against it as spammish
Jamie Palisades: an alternative would be once a month
Jamie Palisades: what do you all think? we’re talkg abotu 2-3 a month tops, at current volume
Jamie Palisades: any question yes or no reactions?
Jamie Palisades: *quick yes or no
Pip Torok: once a month on a set date seems ok Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d love a one-per month “Welcome, New CDS Citizens!” party but I have no problem with the ‘spamming’ either.
Arria Perreault: I agree with Pip
Justice Soothsayer: by welcome notice, you mean an announcement to the community that New Avatar has joined us?
Jamie Palisades: yes, Justice
Arria Perreault: (and why not a welcoming party
Pip Torok: yes PLUS those new avatars who havew become citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, arria
Justice Soothsayer: Sounds OK to me, and a periodic welcoming party would be good too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
Jamie Palisades: ok .. anyway, no need for a long analysis but I am getting generally positive reactions. Good, thanks, we try not to spam too much on the blue CDS group
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Pip Torok: For the record I’d be happy to offer “Arpar del Pip” for them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Compared to others, Jamie, we’re almost *boring*
Justice Soothsayer: And I’ll second Jamie’s thanks to Rose, as I’ve been able to attend some of the musical events over the holidays and they are all exceptionally done!
Jamie Palisades: LL Winterfaire listed us as an attraction, which brought traffic to a concert and the CDS info display added temporarily to the CN docs.
Jamie Palisades: Kudos to Rose, no surprise, for wangling us the listing.
Jamie Palisades: Man do those LL search thingies drive traffic
Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds Rose’s efforts once more
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh they do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No question about that!
Jamie Palisades: Good classical holiday concerts – we were pleased to see high turnout
Sonja Strom:
Jamie Palisades: and Great owl contest go look, if you have not, on the CN to LA path. Our own Keila and Richie won first place.
Jamie Palisades: On land.
Jamie Palisades: Our expansion plan stopped for a bit in reaction to the ecnoomy, which I think was the right thing.
Jamie Palisades: Now we are looking in part to the Guild’s GMP re-fresh project, newly launched, for data and guidance.
Jamie Palisades: As a separate thread from generic expansion options, our chats with and about AlAndalus ran into some interesting reactions. If we get our own hosue in order, that may be the next topic to take up again.
Jamie Palisades: Though I still see our own land and admin issues as being the first proper priority of this RA.
Jamie Palisades: All flag debates aside
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Jamie Palisades: as for the land “market” (I’m 2/3rd of the way through, Justuce)
Jamie Palisades: I note that Two parcels *show* for sale in CN.
Jamie Palisades: Seven in LA, which is down to a more manageable number.
Jamie Palisades: Enough are clustered at LA’s “naked” southern border that I feel confident it will improve further, once the scenic flaw of the sim break next to Alpine Meadows is solved .. whether by parkland, or otherwise.
Jamie Palisades: .. which I expect will be an early financial issue for …
Jamie Palisades flips calendar momentarily …
Jamie Palisades: .. the 10th RA once seated.
Jamie Palisades: (A word on that at the end of my commens.)
Jamie Palisades: There are 10 commercial lots in NFS. Three are or shortly likely will be empty.
Jamie Palisades: There are 18 commercial lots in NFS. Between 8 and 10 are or shortly likely will be empty.
Arria Perreault: CN?
Jamie Palisades: oooops
Jamie Palisades: yes, CN on the lattern sorry Thanks, Arria
Jamie Palisades: Our current laws
Jamie Palisades: see http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=226
Justice Soothsayer: Those 8 to 10 being the area we were just discussing, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh definitely part of it
Jamie Palisades: They are most but not all, yes.
Jamie Palisades: .. those laws … current require than I set aside (small smile) 15& of abandoned-to-the-Confederation commercial land
Jamie Palisades: at a minimum, for a competitive bid for commercial development at a 50% rent rate
Jamie Palisades: look at the law, you weill see that there are some other requirements
Jamie Palisades: suffice to say
Jamie Palisades: I can and will, now that the holidays are over and attention spans are waking up again
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: announce that arragement as an open bid, tomorow, with respect to the land OTHER than the “ER” six plots, for now.
Jamie Palisades: It’s been clear that a litle fiddling of the ER plot boundaries was imminent.
Jamie Palisades: It;s my read of the law (and of our best fiscal choice) that I can do that with more than 15%, so I plan to do so as noted above.
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: last item on land
Jamie Palisades: there are also four new replatted resident plots in NFS on the old Altstadt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
Jamie Palisades: for those of you hwo were uttely outside of SL last month, we held a very wellk received and moving memorial service for Kendra Bancroft there.
Jamie Palisades: fittingly
Jamie Palisades: and the path, of course, has long been “KendraStrasse”
Jamie Palisades: so Moon was kind enough to help me make a few adjustments
Jamie Palisades: wiht the result that the park there is now a memorial as well.
Justice Soothsayer: very nice
Jamie Palisades: Go take a look
Jamie Palisades: and thanks again to Moon for that.
Jamie Palisades: As for the lots
Jamie Palisades: there were multiple interested parties.
Pip Torok: hi Sudane
Sonja Strom: hi Sudane!
Sudane Erato: hi
Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
Lilith Ivory: hi Sudane
Jamie Palisades: so I also plan to offer them for sale with advance notice .. to give folks someth9ing other than a sheer serendipitous land rush chance
Sudane Erato: hi hi
Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves* at Sudane
Jamie Palisades: however the way we do that will depend on today’s RA actions
Arria Perreault: I have a question (very practical)
Jamie Palisades: because the laws on your docket afect what we can do.
Jamie Palisades: Done on land.
Jamie Palisades: Fionally, may I just publicly note the upcoming elections for RA.
Jamie Palisades: Hm – have we seen the list of qualified candidates confirmed by the SC yet?
Amaretto Coffee Mug: Yummy!!
Jamie Palisades: I think not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! No?
Jamie Palisades: suffice to say, the SC, god bless them …. is in charge
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: and with Cindy on vacation shortly, I think that means a small roster
Justice Soothsayer: Just what individuals have posted in the forums, I thin, but one could also sign up to be a candidate by IM to the Dean
Jamie Palisades: so, ah, best of luck to them and to all who depend on them
Justice Soothsayer: *think
Jamie Palisades: heer is the place for the record, where i’d expect any further notices to sppear: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2225
Jamie Palisades: thank you, Justice, and done.
Arria Perreault: I really would like to have the plot behind my villa in CN (C14 I think). As I have two plots, I cannot buy it. But I think that C15 and C 14 could be merged. Would it be possible to buy it in advance in order to merge it or will I fall in an administrative and legal gap and get a new unhappy neighbour soon?
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks Jamie
Jamie Palisades: arria it is EXACTLY that sort of issue, if I may Justice …
Jamie Palisades: .. that su used to manage personally
Arria Perreault: I ask this because in one hour, the Guild will discuss this question and tomorrow land are for sale …(if I have undestrand well)
Jamie Palisades: and now we do with the yellow map and serendipity
Jamie Palisades: and I have probabled (see agenda) that we do differently in the futuer
Jamie Palisades: I;m big on transparency and not so much on insider markets, personally
Arria Perreault: even I will buy it, I am not allowed to do it ….
Justice Soothsayer: not sure Arria got an answer?
Sudane Erato: you could, Arria, if you formed a group
Rubaiyat Shatner: what would it take to permit the joining of the parcels?
Sudane Erato: according to the current law
Arria Perreault: until tomorrow?
Arria Perreault: with who?
Rose Springvale: our eo will resign!
Sudane Erato: *shrug*
Rose Springvale: if we ask for joining parcels
Arria Perreault: eo?
Sudane Erato: yes, she will be extremely unhappy
Rose Springvale: estate owner… = sudane
Arria Perreault: for this case, you should see the map
Jamie Palisades: heh heh
Arria Perreault: the former Cleopatra shop
Sudane Erato: it was owned by a group… which is how they managed so many
Jamie Palisades: it is my reading of the law that it;s unclear as hell and the authors should be put in the public stocks .. however.. the practical effect has been that the RA must approve sgiificant plat maps, and anything with material economic effect (like, say, perturbing the net rental square meters), and tha minor changes that do not have that effect can be done by the likes of Sudane and me. Or our successors.
Jamie Palisades smiles pleasantly
Jamie Palisades mutters .. ooo .. public stocks have to look at the entertainment budget again
Arria Perreault: what can I do (on a very practical base)?
Rose Springvale has a guillotine in inventory, but no stocks…
Kattie Belgar: good bye all was nice to see you
Pip Torok: bye Kattie
Justice Soothsayer: perhaps the dunking booth could be used.
Sonja Strom: bye bye Kattie, thanks for visiting us
Jamie Palisades: nice to meet you Kattie, thanks for stopping by.
Lilith Ivory smiles at Rose
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, I had one other question for you and Sudane. I know we’ve seen a major increase in abandoned CN commercial property, but other than that, has the current economic problems caused us to have any increase in defaults? (question is also related to our next agenda item)
Jamie Palisades: dunking booth, guillotine you say PoTahto …
Sudane Erato: Justice, my informal impression is that defaults are normal
Jamie Palisades: hmmm. Su? My gut is, we took back a passel of abandoned properties just now, but that’s from 3 months ago plus, due to our pokey laws
Sudane Erato: yes, i agree
Jamie Palisades: in other words it;s not indicative of anything special in the last 60 days
Jamie Palisades: and hey, for that matter …
Jamie Palisades: the deadbeats list which we don’t circulate for obvious reasons .. is a litle SHORTER than usual
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is good, isn’t it?
Justice Soothsayer: good to hear
Sudane Erato: yes
Jamie Palisades: in part, that’s successful sales of parcels to enthuastic, pay-on-time newcomers, smile .. luired by events, hint hint
Justice Soothsayer: Other questions for Jamie before we get to the next item, which is the proposal to un-pokey the land reclamation law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But what does it indicate? More new citizens, or higher retention rates?
Jamie Palisades: (but of both, so far)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, so more new citizens, ok
Justice Soothsayer: On to the next item, then: Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Justice Soothsayer: the draft bill has been on the forums and is available as a notecard from the dispenser on the table.
Jamie Palisades: may I also just selfishly toss in the URI here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2217
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, was it your intention that Paragraph 6 be included? It is in brackets in the notecard.
Jamie Palisades looks
Jamie Palisades: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if we hadn’t discussed the wording around ‘provisional citizens’ before…
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. just the NAME
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not what it means being one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose that “delinquent citizens” even sounds more horrible…
Jamie Palisades: as to para 7, yes, include please, otherwise it’s a glaring loophole – i thin Gwyn and I had a bit of tete-a-tete on this in the RA when it last came up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Jamie Palisades smiles, whispers – public stocks .. think of it as our keep-out-EO-amused act
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Jamie Palisades: give sudane a nice little black hood
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, a question on 6, which is teh issue of refunds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine the following stupid scenario, someone owns two plots, one is paid in full for a year, the other is paid every month, and, well, the citizen forgot to pay one month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happens?
Jamie Palisades: you or me, su?
Sudane Erato: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades consigned Santa Minerva to the holiday props locker
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: at this time, there is no provision other than to pay each month
Jamie Palisades: under current law before this change? They;re in arrears and get foreclosed after 3 months anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah what about the citizens that go away on vacation and are sure they aren’t able to log in to pay?
Jamie Palisades: under the new law, same
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the 3 months was because the number of citizens who take more than 3 months of “computer vacations” are very very rare…
Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, speaking only as personal opinion, that’s one rason why I went to change software
Jamie Palisades: prepay would solve that one
Pip Torok: IMO a glance at landlord-tenant relatyions and the use of _discretion_ would be useful (only a thought)
Sudane Erato: currently, anyone who will be away need only speak to me, and give me an idea when they will pay… and its fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Jamie Palisades: but um – you know, we *have* had workarounds
Jamie Palisades: they’;re just manual and thus annoying
Sudane Erato: most people, however, say nothing
Jamie Palisades: yup
Solomon Mosely: raises hand
Jamie Palisades: it;s the person who is gone from SL entirely, for example, where we are losing rent for months for no good reason
Jamie Palisades goes afk a sec
Justice Soothsayer: Solomon?
Solomon Mosely: yes, well, i had another question about item 6 of the reclamation act
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, jamie. I’ll withdraw my objections, since a) if we have a prepayment system in place, we can arrange for a refunding bill, but since we don’t have it, the question is moot; b) the few cases where *currently* someone will ask Sudane to accept payment for a whole year and ‘forget’ to pay another plot monthly are probably very few
Solomon Mosely: relating to qwyneths earlier question
Sudane Erato: well… when people ask to prepay… i refuse
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, Sudane, you’re terrible
Sudane Erato: yes… and very tired…
Solomon Mosely: ok, because according to #6 (ithink im reading it right) that owner of two parcels with one prepaid and one in default would lose both
Gwyneth Llewelyn makes a mental note never to take any vacations again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Solomon, exactly ? both AND the right to be a citizen, with all what it implies
Justice Soothsayer happens to know Gwyn rarely travels without computer access
Sudane Erato:
Sudane Erato: well, its up to you all to define citizenship
Sudane Erato: i only collect the tier
Arria Perreault: If we allow people to pay in advance, can we make some bargain for 3 months in advance or 6 months in advance?
Jamie Palisades: Gwyn I suggest we make it simple and mutually agreeable, by making the effectiveness of para 6 contingent on an opportunity for prepayment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But often without *network* access, Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally second that, Jamie
Sudane Erato: administratively, using current software, we have no method to handle any prepayment
Jamie Palisades: workingon wording
Sudane Erato: so, prepayment = new software
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Justice Soothsayer notes Item III b on the agenda = new software
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Jamie Palisades: indeed
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: consider adding this sentence at the end of para 6
Jamie Palisades: “However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amoutns at least up to 3 months’ in advance.”
Jamie Palisades: hmm … modulo the typo
Jamie Palisades: “amounts”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with that hehe
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll second that, along with taking off the brackets to make it clear that para 6 is part of the full bill.
Jamie Palisades smiles – I not longer wear he cape around here, so if that’s an amendment it will need a motion and second Is that Gwyn moves, Justice seconds, then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (with Justice’s comment of tacking off the brackets, and I removing a typo or two)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *taking even
Justice Soothsayer thinks Jamie needs a cape
Jamie Palisades makes quiet note — see if Adam & Eve has sale on Gravitas!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh gosh, that sentence of mine was full of typos too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jamie
Sudane Erato:
Jamie Palisades: naah, see, bottom line is actually much more embarrassing than that …
Jamie Palisades leans over whispers to Justcie .. cape envy.
Justice Soothsayer: Any objection to the amendment?
Pip Torok: none
Pip Torok: (at least from me)
Justice Soothsayer: Let us move on the bill as amended, then. Are you ready to vote on it, or any further discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with voting now.
Justice Soothsayer: The vote, then, is on the bill as amended. All in favor, say aye.
Pip Torok: aye
Rubaiyat Shatner: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye !
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Justice Soothsayer pauses to wait for Arria
Justice Soothsayer: Well, the motion carries 4-0.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True
Gwyneth Llewelyn watches the yellow markers on the Map suddenly triplicate… hehe
Justice Soothsayer: Meanwhile, we have only 11 minutes until the scheduled guild meeting
Justice Soothsayer: Next item is ” Land Sales LIsting Improvement Act” (which will take the yellow markers away_
Justice Soothsayer: eventually.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Justice Soothsayer: Discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, question….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How will land sales be promoted *besides* that “central listing method”? I mean, additionally to what we have now?
Jamie Palisades: well, gwyn I have four things in mind
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Jamie Palisades: 1. we have brian’s bulletin boards now at the two main hubs
Jamie Palisades: so look, if you haven’t
Jamie Palisades: *go
Jamie Palisades: PIOs are putting nice little in-your-face pictures, right thetre
Jamie Palisades makes happy-chancellor face
Sonja Strom:
Jamie Palisades: 2. I;d expect us to announce *commercial* availability in the group, goign forward
Jamie Palisades: after all any prospect can joint the friends-of group and get that stream, RSS so to speak
Jamie Palisades: 3. web hub
Jamie Palisades: siigh manual for now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “web hub”, you mean mmh http://slcds.info ?
Jamie Palisades: yes but 4. new software (broken record, me) would give us some augmented display ability
Jamie Palisades: and heh heh
Jamie Palisades: next term , they/we should decide whether we list on SLX too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: OOOOOOOH
Sonja Strom: X-Street
Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES!!!!!
Arria Perreault: sorry (I was ok anyway …)
Jamie Palisades:
Justice Soothsayer: wb Arria
Jamie Palisades points to the legislation draft itself, viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2218
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, I was wondering if you have an estimate of time/cost of delivering a “central listing method”, even just a ballpark estimate at this time
Jamie Palisades: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn removes any of her potential objections on this bill, and would like to hear about the estimate as well.
Jamie Palisades: 1. the hub bulletin boards (inworld) actually qualify NOW but
Jamie Palisades: 2. realyl it was the softeware with display capability I was keening towards
Jamie Palisades: and that is, oh, a wek after we buy it
Jamie Palisades: *week
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: budget obstacles aside
Jamie Palisades: I plan to have it installed before my term ends , e.g., end of this calendar month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok ))
Jamie Palisades: that factors in a bit of pass-it-around-get-feedback-on-the-interface
Jamie Palisades: in the best traditions of CDS, grin
Arria Perreault says Aye on the Land Reclamation bill (for the record)
Justice Soothsayer: a week would set a land speed record around here.
Justice Soothsayer: for the feedback loop, that is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m ready to vote aye, too
Jamie Palisades: (a week after buy to deploy) (this month, i.e. 3 weeks or so, for the feedback loop, before buy)
Rubaiyat Shatner: me as well
Justice Soothsayer: Arria was stating her vote in favor of the previous bill for the record.
Justice Soothsayer: We are now on the Land Listings bill, and it seems we are ready to vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh oops, sorry Justice
Justice Soothsayer: So, please state your vote noew on the Land Listings bill.
Justice Soothsayer: *now
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that!
Rubaiyat Shatner: awww brian
Brian Livingston: Whhops, sorry :p
Jamie Palisades: wasn;t that cute
Rubaiyat Shatner: it was
Jamie Palisades: and people say *I* suck up to the RA, tsk
Justice Soothsayer: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A *mining* brian?
Brian Livingston: Gotta pay the bills :p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye on land listings bill
Rubaiyat Shatner: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Arria Perreault votes Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn had voted aye too in case it wasn’t clear
Justice Soothsayer: Motion carries.
Justice Soothsayer: Lot of work to do, Jamie. Thanks in advance.
Justice Soothsayer: OK, we are now past our 11 am adjournment, and still have budget to discuss and open discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, are you ready to talk about revisign the budget, or has time caught up with us on this?
Justice Soothsayer: most of the budget period having already expired, that is.
Jamie Palisades: Justice, I’d say it should be a higher item in 2 weeks and plently of time for it then – because that will give this RA a thoughtful chance to giev the next RA its collective take
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s your call, either way I’m fine
Jamie Palisades: we are in fact not at risk in the short run because we’re spending as if the higher reserves exist
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, I don’t like to do “major voting” during the campaigning period…
Justice Soothsayer: I’m willing to postpone it for 2 weeks, but ask that Jamie post in the forums his suggestions, especially with regard to increasing reserves.
Justice Soothsayer: That will let the rest of the community participate int he discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: So we are now on to Item II C Open Discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: I just want to again congratulate Rose and the PIO team for an excellent job of events and lots of publicity drawing traffic and new citizens!
Sonja Strom: yaaay!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Rose
Rose Springvale smiles … thank you all for supporting
Symo Kurka: me/ appaludes
Lilith Ivory: applause
Jamie Palisades: Yes indeed Cheers, Rose & Brian
Timo Gufler: applause!
Justice Soothsayer: Also, a reminder that polls open on 10 January to 17 January.
Justice Soothsayer: No ebay listings of RA seats here! You have to vote!
Brian Livingston notes there is still tiem to buy his vote Bid High and Bid Often!
Sonja Strom: lol
Brian Livingston is a few seconds too late :/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha justice
Jamie Palisades: On that, justice, in, ah, lieu of a clear notice from anyone about it, let me mention here what i did on the forums
Justice Soothsayer: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: Claude posted that schedule at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2226
Jamie Palisades: exec branch usually sets up a RA faction debate
Jamie Palisades: we will offer to do so again.
Jamie Palisades looks at calendar, frowns
Jamie Palisades: probbbbbbbbaly next weekend
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: thought I have not heard a thing about whose ballot device is in propscte for use this time. Justice, perhaps you and I should ping Claude.
Justice Soothsayer: Good idea, Jamie.
Jamie Palisades: I’ll do so in e mail and copy you, then
Justice Soothsayer: Any other comments before we adjourn? Open to all.
Brian Livingston: Just a reminder that the electiosn guide is available at: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=election_guide
Rose Springvale: with all the LL traffic
Rose Springvale: we’ve had quite a few people leaving litter. so check your land
Arria Perreault: I would like to know where we are with the idea of fees based on prims.
Sonja Strom: About the litter – if you see some in a public place and can not pick it up please let me know!
Sonja Strom: I will.
Lilith Ivory: You can ask me also
Rose Springvale: remember too you can turn off “build” for all residents on your own land.
Rose Springvale: heading over to guild
Rubaiyat Shatner: are we winding down?
Gwyneth Llewelyn wanted to go over to the Guild too….
Justice Soothsayer: I think we are, though Arria still needs an answer on fees per prims; Guild din’t have much to say on it. Jamie?
Justice Soothsayer: *didn’t
Jamie Palisades: mm good point. Better ask them
Justice Soothsayer: sorry we are adjouring a little late.
Jamie Palisades: one of the drawbacks of volunteers they act on an as-avail basis
Justice Soothsayer: But lets all move over tot he Guild meeting and raise that again.
Jamie Palisades: Cheers all, and thanks, and happy new year!
Justice Soothsayer: So I am declaring the meeting adjourned.
Arria Perreault: tennis play isn’t the best answer
Sonja Strom: so long
Kedwyn Parmelee: \o
Brian Livingston: Same to you Jamie See you all at the Guild Meeting.
The meeting closed at 11:20 Linden time.

The RA passed the following slightly amended version at the meeting of 4 January 2008:

1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.

2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.

3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.

4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.

5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclaimation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclaimation shall be returned, and a notice of the reclaimation sent to the landowner.

6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.

7. The CDS Executive Branch is encourged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.

8. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclaimation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

Land Sales Listing Improvement Act 2008

1. Land sales in CDS of land owned by the government are conducted by the CDS Executive Branch, using such methods as are reasonably expected to promote the Confederation’s interests, consistent with our laws.
.
2. Land sales in CDS owned by a citizen are initiated by the citizen, and facilitated and supervised by the CDS Executive Branch. Any land transfer of any kind by any citizen requires notification to the Treasurer of CDS per NL 4-3. [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=144]

b. The Executive Branch has delivered to the RA by posting to the CDS Forums a certificate indicating that the foregoing system is in place, and describing it.

c. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws that specify land sale methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.

3. Once the foregoing new system is in place, the Executive Branch also will use it to list CDS-owned parcels for sale.

Permalink.

10th Representative Assembly (13)

RA Meeting: February 01, 2009

Agenda

RA AGENDA 1st FEBRUARY 2009, 8:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM

Swearing in of RA members, 8:00 sharp
Speech of LRA

I. ADMIN (8:10 to 8:20)
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: confirm 8th February 2009
e. Confirmation of two new nominations in SC

II. CHANCELLOR NOMINATION (8:20 to 8:35)
a. Proposals, discussion and vote

III. NEW ITEMS
a. RA discussion on this term’s priorities (8:35 to 8:50)
b. RA discussion on possible new RA organization (8:50 to 9:00)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. Report from prior RA members and discussion (9:00 to 9:10)

IV. OTHER ITEMS
a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:10 to 9:30)
b. Adjournment (9:30)

Transcript

Meeting on 2009-02-01
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer: hi Symo
Symo Kurka: Hello Justice
Symo Kurka: Did not manage to get in touch with Piblius
Symo Kurka: *Publius
Justice Soothsayer: he doesnt come to Sunday AM meetings due to church conflcit
Justice Soothsayer: uh, that is, going to church is a time conflict for him, not that his church has a conflict!
Justice Soothsayer: ooh, I like the new decor
Symo Kurka: )
Justice Soothsayer: torch sconces coming out of the middle of the painting are a little disconcerting
Symo Kurka: Yes
Symo Kurka: Have to ask Moon if she can move them
Justice Soothsayer: but the Neufreistadt rock is very nice
Symo Kurka: I cannot
Symo Kurka: Yeah that is Magritte
Symo Kurka: I find it very similar
Symo Kurka: to NFS
Justice Soothsayer: didnt know Magritte visited us!
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: Hello Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: good morning all
Justice Soothsayer: hi Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: hi justice
Soro Dagostino: Hello
Cindy Ecksol: hi soro
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, since Cindy is here it reminds me that we have nominees for SC; should we add this to the agenda?
Symo Kurka: Yes
Pip Torok: yes … hi everyone
Symo Kurka: I already added in the Agenda update
Symo Kurka: Thank you all for beeing sharp guys
Soro Dagostino: Symo, small correction
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro?
Soro Dagostino: The time is not daylight.
Soro Dagostino: It is standard.
Symo Kurka: lol Soro YOUR time is not daylight
Jamie Palisades: Good morning all. Or such time as it is, anyway.
Symo Kurka: hello Jamie
Pip Torok: hi Jamie
Symo Kurka: .. and welcome Sonja
Sonja Strom: hi everybody!
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja — Jamie.
Sonja Strom: Hi Delia!
Delia Lake: hello everyone
Pip Torok: Hi Delia!
Soro Dagostino: Hello Delia
Symo Kurka: Do all new RA members have the text of our oath?
Cindy Ecksol: I have it for anyone who needs it
Soro Dagostino: No.
Pip Torok: yes …
Lilith Ivory: hi there
Pip Torok: symo it IS new members who need take the oath , no?
Sonja Strom: Hi Lilith!
Pip Torok: hi Lilith
Symo Kurka: Uh nice question
Soro Dagostino: Hello Rain
Delia Lake: hi Lilith, hi Rain
Pip Torok: no matter i can always take it again
Cindy Ecksol: rain, what are you doing down there, you little cutie!
Rain Ninetails: hi
Rain Ninetails: meeeoo
Pip Torok: hi Rain
Cindy Ecksol: cats may take seats too I think: they are really people
Pip Torok: Sol! hi
Sonja Strom: Hi Rain!
Cindy Ecksol: whoops! we lost jamie
Rain Ninetails: hi Sonja!
Sonja Strom: Cats are people too, yes
Symo Kurka: Well
Cindy Ecksol: morning solomon
Lilith Ivory: Hi Sol
Sonja Strom: Hi Solomon!
Solomon Mosely: morning cindy
Sonja Strom: Hi Sudane!
Solomon Mosely: hello sonja
Sudane Erato: hi
Solomon Mosely: hello all
Lilith Ivory: hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi
Symo Kurka: Hello all
Symo Kurka: Please View Agenda in
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2317
Symo Kurka: I’ll get now agreements to record session, so please touch the black recorder under the table
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades wipes cloud-poof-dust off …sorry, more crashes than usual lately. Can’t say much nice about SL stability right now,
Rain Ninetails has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: I agree to being recorded.
Symo Kurka: Now first poinyt, all NEW RA members have to swear
Symo Kurka: Cindy?
Cindy Ecksol: yes, symo
Symo Kurka: will you please start?
Cindy Ecksol: actually I have to go last: I have to administer the oath on behalf of my colleagues on SC
Symo Kurka: Ok
Cindy Ecksol: technically I’m still SC….
Symo Kurka: Soro?
AO R [script:radioset]: Script run-time error
AO R [script:radioset]: Stack-Heap Collision
Soro Dagostino: —
I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Soro Dagostino: Soro
Symo Kurka: lol
Symo Kurka: Soro…
Delia Lake has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, would you like to repeat after me?
Symo Kurka: Please soro repeat the oath with your name
Soro Dagostino: —
I, Soro Dagostino, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you, soro
Pip Torok: applause!
Symo Kurka: Thank you, Sonja?
Cindy Ecksol: who is next?
Sonja Strom: I, Sonja Strom, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Justice Soothsayer: Me, I think.
Justice Soothsayer: I, Justice Soothsayer, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Thank you. Pip?
Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: I, Symo Kurka, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Ok,
Symo Kurka: we can start
Cindy Ecksol: thank you all
Cindy Ecksol: and I now officially resign my seat on SC
Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Great, thank you Cindy
Jamie Palisades applauds all our new and returning senators
Symo Kurka: I’m sorry, but I have to..
Justice Soothsayer: welcome back from the Dark Side, Cindy.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you justice
Symo Kurka: LRA speech
Cindy Ecksol inserts eyelid props
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens, guests of he CDS.
Symo Kurka: When Sonja opened the thread “What we like about the CDS” in our forum
Symo Kurka: somebody of you wrote a sentence which i liked a lot. Let me quote here:
Symo Kurka: “In CDS I like all the unsung heroes who spend hours and hours of time trying to realize a dream when we aren’t even sure what the dream is.”
Symo Kurka: Just a few words about dreams.
Symo Kurka: We cannot live without dreams, we would be monsters.
Symo Kurka: The Dream is Life.
Symo Kurka: And here in our community we all are following a Dream, one Dream.
Symo Kurka: his Dream belongs to all Cds citizens of past and present times
Symo Kurka: and we know it’s a complex, long lasting dream: the first RA meeting was held in january 2005, exactly four years ago.
Symo Kurka: How many dreams do last four years??
Symo Kurka: We all must be grateful to oldies overall, the “unsung heros” who still believe in this dream and still work hard for it.
Symo Kurka: To them I ask to be patient with newbies if they soemtimes repeat what you already know.
Symo Kurka: Newbies are precious because they bring in new energies for the Dream.
Symo Kurka: And to CDS newbies I ask to be patient with oldies if sometimes they seem to be elitarian.
Symo Kurka: CDS Oldies are precious because they are experienced.
Symo Kurka: So let’s go on alltogether building our Dream.
Symo Kurka: No hurry to know “what the dream is”.
Symo Kurka: We are slowly discovering what the Dream is, like children who discover the world.
Symo Kurka: Best wishes to you all.
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Symo Kurka: I’m finished
Sudane Erato: bravo Symo!!
Jamie Palisades smiles and applauds
Lilith Ivory: applause
Sonja Strom claps
Justice Soothsayer: nicely said
Sudane Erato: great!
Patroklus Murakami claps
Rose Springvale cheers for Symo
Symo Kurka: Let’s go on now
Pip Torok: claps
Symo Kurka: Any suggestions for Agenda items?
Delia Lake:
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: Next RA scheduled for 8th February
Symo Kurka: Details will follow in foreum
Sonja Strom: Do we know what time it will start?
Symo Kurka: We have now top confirm two new nominations in SC
Jamie Palisades: Symo, a quick question on that meeting>
Jamie Palisades: ?
Symo Kurka: Sorry Sonja, not yet, we’ll fikx it through usual sw
Sonja Strom: ok
Symo Kurka: Yes?
Jamie Palisades: Mind was the same as sonja’s, sorry. Interested in meetings that all can attend, and perhaps not taking everyone;s weekend family or church time every week
Jamie Palisades: I’ll wait to her
Jamie Palisades: hear
Symo Kurka: Ok I’ll have in mind
Symo Kurka: Now next point
Symo Kurka: The SC has put forward Aliasi Stonebender and Delia Lake as new SC members. T
Symo Kurka: The RA has to confirm the two nominations
Soro Dagostino: So move
Symo Kurka: And i personally would proceed to vote
Cindy Ecksol: second
Symo Kurka: For confirmation, say aye if youa agree
Justice Soothsayer: It would be nice to hear from the nominees
Pip Torok: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: No. Not that I don’t believe they would be good, just that we should hear from them first.
Symo Kurka: Justice?
Sonja Strom: I would like to hear a little bit from them, like maybe what they would like to bring to the SC —
Sonja Strom: it can be something short.
Symo Kurka: This was not in the agenda, which is quite stuck and btw already late
Jamie Palisades: so there are, just as an inquiry for a poit of order, Mr. LRA, 3 votes in favor and 2 against and you have not voted?
Justice Soothsayer: We’ve had a lot of discussion about what the role of the SC should be in our demoncracy. I’d like to hear what the nominees have to say about that question.
Justice Soothsayer: We have 30 days to confirm.
Sonja Strom: The agenda is for us, not the other way around.
Cindy Ecksol: I agree
Pip Torok: agree
Cindy Ecksol: delia is here, I’m sure she can speak for herself
Symo Kurka: I suggest that we vorte now and we invite our dear friends to explain theur intentions in next RA meeting
Cindy Ecksol: and we should not delay confirming at least one member
Justice Soothsayer: Putting thecare before the horse, i fear.
Justice Soothsayer: *cart
Sonja Strom: I will withhold my vote until I hear something from them.
Justice Soothsayer: It is hearing the views of the nominees that should inform the vote, not the other way around.
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order?
Jamie Palisades sighs quietly. Mr Lra, is the vote pending, or withdrawn?
Pip Torok: i will withold my vote as well
Symo Kurka: Funny guys
Soro Dagostino: Is that an abstention?
Symo Kurka: We will discuss it in next RA ok?
Cindy Ecksol: symo, excuse me
Cindy Ecksol: we cannot leave hear without confirming at least one new SC member
Symo Kurka: Cindy?
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: Delia
Cindy Ecksol: please allow discussion in the form of a short address from delia
Cindy Ecksol: than you.
Symo Kurka: can you shortly tell us what ?your view of SC is?
Symo Kurka: Delia?
Delia Lake: yes, Symo. the SC has the specific role of certifying elections
Delia Lake: and also of hearing disputes especially related to the CDS consitution
Pip Torok: brb telephone
Justice Soothsayer: Delia, under what circumstances shoul dthe SC invalidate a law passed by the democratically elected RA?
Delia Lake: the SC should invalidate a law if it is in conflict with the constitution
Justice Soothsayer: and how do you decide that?
Symo Kurka: Delia?
Symo Kurka: I suppose somebody crashed
Symo Kurka: and .. sorry
Symo Kurka: can we go on?
Cindy Ecksol: symo, I suggest we defer the vote until after other business
Sonja Strom: hm, maybe we can move to another topic, and return to this one later.
Justice Soothsayer: good idea
Symo Kurka: ok
Symo Kurka: next topic
Symo Kurka: I agree
Symo Kurka: CHANCELLOR NOMINATION
Symo Kurka: wow
Symo Kurka: lo+
Sonja Strom: Aliasi might come along too.
Sudane Erato:
Justice Soothsayer: Let’s have a little discussion before we vote on this one
Symo Kurka: Oh sure guys
Symo Kurka: My ears are getting big, I’m anxious to hear
Sonja Strom: lol
Soro Dagostino: Nominate Jamie Palisades
Symo Kurka: But I see nobody asking to sp?eak
Cindy Ecksol: second
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, RA members don’t have to ask to speak about items on the agenda.
Jamie Palisades smiles. Should I simply indicate that I accept, as a candidate? I might have posted something along those lines to the Forum , so it may not be a surprise to those present.
Justice Soothsayer: I do have one or two questions for Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Perhaps someone, say, CSDF members, have questions?
Symo Kurka: Justice, you said [8:35] Justice Soothsayer: Let’s have a little discussion before we vote on this one
Soro Dagostino: Do you pay overtime?
Jamie Palisades: ah Justice, Prefer a short introductory comment from me first, or questions first?
Soro Dagostino:
Symo Kurka: Do i have to intend this silence as an agreement to Jamie Palisades confirmation?
Justice Soothsayer: Feel free to make comments first, Jamie, if you like, though you have an excellent statement on the forum. Then I would like to ask a question.
Jamie Palisades: Thank you. Just this, then:
Jamie Palisades: My own views on items f acing us are fairly clear .. for one thing I have posted regualrly reports and ideas to the forum, where their are quite serachable .. and get a lot of replies as well Not all chancellors, ah, chose to use the forum that way, but following the model of my SP predecessor Aliasi, I thought it a good idea to get ideas our for pulic comment.
So if you want to know what I have in mind read the forums. As justice says, It’s all there….
Jamie Palisades: Of course, my own most recently posting, here, reflect my most current concerns, and those which colleaguges have helped me identify:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319
Jamie Palisades: I’m very pleased with our success at events programming and clearning up adminstrative matters — the website, prims, land monitoring methods so far — this last term.
Jamie Palisades: MOderately satisfied wit a very conservative, safe resposnse to the messes in economic and LL land rules we encountered this last six months.
Jamie Palisades: Not so satisfied with our responses so far to Arria’s proposal and the AL Andalaus opportunity.
Jamie Palisades: I expect those will be active topics for the RA this term
Jamie Palisades: and I except us to approach them, as all things, more in the spirit of Symo’s comments this morning …
Jamie Palisades: .. how to facilitate a diversity of dreams and creativity … and in a fair, safe way ….
Jamie Palisades: .. not was a not-onvented-here game of blocking each other’s ideas ni favor of stasis, or in favor of one’s own.
Justice Soothsayer raises hand
Jamie Palisades: Horse traduign does not refeolect well on us. I look forward to CDS continuing to leave that old style behind. And reqritign ourselves as faciltators, not political gamers. ,.
Jamie Palisades: Thanks
Jamie Palisades: Justice?
Sonja Strom claps
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, first let me say that you have done an outstanding job as Chancellor.
Justice Soothsayer: These have been very challenging times, both for CDS and the outside world (linden and RL) and you have balanced things well.
Delia Lake apologizes for crashing
Justice Soothsayer: I just want to follow up on your comment about Al Andalus.
Justice Soothsayer: What are your thoughts on how we should approach AA? Should we consider this as a one-off opportunity, or engage in some structural changes to accommodate the opportunity for closer ties? Should this be a legislative initiative, or an executive one?
Jamie Palisades: Justice, I think we need to make it safe for the to come here, Which has three parts. and then there are two considerations on our side.
Jamie Palisades: let’s leave legisl-exec for last and concentrate on the substance first
Jamie Palisades: thigns they need as I see it:
Jamie Palisades: — an answer to whether we’d affiliate only in a physical move, or leaving both estates wher ethey are
Jamie Palisades: — a genuine comfort level with the stavility, maturity, and commitment ot diversity from our government, so that they can happiyl be subject to our laws without concern about disruption to their own “life”, which is trundling around just fine.
Jamie Palisades: (in otehr words, if they join us, do we start doing all sorts if thigns that mess them up?)
Jamie Palisades: the right answer would be “no” by the way
Jamie Palisades: and third, from their end, a structure to allow them to continue doing their programming
Jamie Palisades: in other words
Jamie Palisades: if they estate adds to our balacne sheet, theyd probably lilke some basis for believing that all the combined event money does not go to accordionsm beer and togas
Jamie Palisades: that’s THEIR three issues as I see it
Jamie Palisades: after months of meeting and thinking – GENTLY, not in the triumphalist conquistdor tone I have seen from a few of the overenthusiastic
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: CDS, WE, have some concerns too
Jamie Palisades: I see two
Jamie Palisades: one is whetehr they are fiscally stable in a manner that would make them a good addition for us, and not degrade out position
Jamie Palisades: that’s math
Jamie Palisades: the answer appears to be yes, but i expect to bring a case to the RA on that
Jamie Palisades: the second is the subjective one
Jamie Palisades: does CDS want to do this?
Jamie Palisades: well
Jamie Palisades: heh
Jamie Palisades: many of my dear friends here feel strongly that CDS is a representative democracythrough its allpowerful factions
Jamie Palisades: so I guess we find our if CDS wants to do this first by inforaml postings of plans to the forum, and citizern feedback’…
Jamie Palisades: and then with an RA vote
Jamie Palisades: which leads me to my final point, your question about who ACTS here
Jamie Palisades: it works in my view exactly like a native sim additionb
Jamie Palisades: some financial feasibility details must be developed and brought to RA
Jamie Palisades: that’s my jon
Jamie Palisades: job – assume you reappoint me to it
Jamie Palisades: and the RA must approve maps and land acqusitions and covenants
Jamie Palisades: as lways
Jamie Palisades: abasically, a theme and L$ feasibility decision
Jamie Palisades: done, thanks. Did I answer ?
Symo Kurka: Ahhhh lawyers…. Jamie the subject is important but we are monopolizing here the attention on AA … while we just have to confirm (or not) our efficient chancellor…
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for a thoughtful answer to a complicated question.
Symo Kurka: Great
Jamie Palisades: oh, yes, and also, I talk too much it;s the transparency thing
Soro Dagostino: Call the question
Symo Kurka: any other (short) question???
Sonja Strom: Yes
Sonja Strom: Jamie, you said “Horse traduign does not refeolect well on us. I look forward to CDS continuing to leave that old style behind.” On the surface this sounds good, but I am curious what you actually mean by it.
Sonja Strom: First, how do you define “horse trading”?
Symo Kurka smiles
Justice Soothsayer: Symo understanding the chancello’rs view of the proper executive-legislative balance is important in deciding whether to hire a candidate for the job.
Sonja Strom: Second, could you give a specific example?
Jamie Palisades: well, Sonja, I have seen a lot of energy in CDS that SHOUDL go to promoting and assisting citizens with their creative projects diverted instead to plots on how to stop projects
Pip Torok: (back now)
Jamie Palisades: or , takign good projects and making of them games — and ingoring the projects themelves.
Jamie Palisades: And no, I decline to name bad actors, I do not think that promotes our efforts at collaboration. but let me give an illustratin of something badly handled by us all.
Cindy Ecksol: here here!!
Sonja Strom: I think I see that, like not helping to make things better, but only being critical?
Jamie Palisades: Yes
Jamie Palisades: exactly so
Sonja Strom: ok
Jamie Palisades: people with a critique should bring alternatives, not just attacks
Jamie Palisades: or else we lose our creatives
Sonja Strom: An illustration of what your are talking about would be helpful for the understanding of all of us, I think.
Jamie Palisades: Well let me mnake a short comment then, and see if in obediance to Symo I can make it compact.
Jamie Palisades: Arria brought us a cool idea regading the monastery.
Sonja Strom: Sure, but the question was posed to you by a member of the RA .
Jamie Palisades: Only a fool owuld miss the fact that this was a genuine, positive attempt to contribute somethign substantial to CDS.
Jamie Palisades grins at sonja – me? speak briefly? me? heh
Jamie Palisades: Arrisa’s proposla got tied up in our economic and void pricing mess
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: even before that
Jamie Palisades: it was rushed to the RA in sort of a half-formed, undefined plan
Jamie Palisades: so it did NOT get the kind of attention up front that would have given it the best chance of success
Jamie Palisades: we are a community
Jamie Palisades: we need to compromise, listen and bend — all of us
Jamie Palisades: instead, it became a rigid take it or leave it
Jamie Palisades: not our best way to encouarge contributios
Jamie Palisades: done
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
Symo Kurka: Other questions folks?
Cindy Ecksol: I move we vote
Justice Soothsayer: Not from me. OK to vote.
Sonja Strom: Second
Symo Kurka: Ok
Pip Torok: what motion are we voting for?
Symo Kurka: Does Ra confirm Jamie >Palisades as Chancellor for this term?
Pip Torok: ah
Cindy Ecksol: I move we vote to affirm Jamie as chancellor by affirmation
Symo Kurka: say aye if you want him
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Symo Kurka: and aye
Pip Torok: applause ….
Patroklus Murakami applauds
Symo Kurka: Delia are yous till here?
Sudane Erato: yay!
Rose Springvale: bravo!
Delia Lake: yes
Sonja Strom claps
Justice Soothsayer: Congrats Jamie
Lilith Ivory: applause
Symo Kurka applauds
Pip Torok: all the best Jamie!
Jamie Palisades: Thank you, ladies & gentlemen & I will settle happily for five votes from those awake.
Soro Dagostino: Yay!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sonja Strom: lol
Symo Kurka: Is Ms Delia Lake awake?
Delia Lake: yes
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: i give five minutes to fulfill the previous subject
Jamie Palisades: Six votes, thanks, my correction.
Sonja Strom: All RA members present.
Justice Soothsayer: where we left off was the question of the role of the SC in invalidating laws that conflict with the constitution. I’d like to know whether Dalia would be reluctant to do so, and how she would determine whether a law conflicts with the constitution.
Symo Kurka: No more questions for Delia?
Soro Dagostino: Relogging — so much lag
Sonja Strom: ok
Delia Lake: Justice, I would not be reluctant to flag a law that seemed to me to be in violation of the Constitution
Cindy Ecksol notices 70,183 in world
Delia Lake: the process as I understand it is one of review, public notice, and discussion before the SC votes on a matter of conflict
Delia Lake: It seems to me that is a good process as it should be transparent
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Dalia.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, Delia.
Sonja Strom: I move we vote to confirm Delia as a new member of the Scientific Council.
Pip Torok: seconded
Symo Kurka: Ok vote aye for Delia’s confirmation in SC
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Symo Kurka: aye and best wishes Delia
Delia Lake: thank you
Pip Torok: and mine too, Delia!!
Sudane Erato: yay!
Lilith Ivory: applause
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations delia
Symo Kurka claps
Sonja Strom claps
Rose Springvale: wow, great team we are getting here!
Pip Torok: quite right, Rose
Symo Kurka: Now
Symo Kurka: Next Item
Justice Soothsayer: worth of a press release, Rose
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale: smile
Symo Kurka: i know it’s very unusual
Rose Springvale: up to the pio
Symo Kurka: discussing about priorities
Symo Kurka: but
Symo Kurka: it might be an interesting new approach
Symo Kurka: so
Symo Kurka: i invite faction members to proceed
Symo Kurka: with their point of views on this term’s priorities
Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth!
Symo Kurka: Hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
Sonja Strom: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better late than never, they say…
Symo Kurka: I know we all discussed about priorities
Symo Kurka: we can go on on Forum if you prefer
Symo Kurka: or just announce the list of priorities here in RA
Symo Kurka: +and go on in discussions in Forum
Cindy Ecksol: speaking for myself, symo, I am perfectly comfortable with the priorities that jamie has outlines
Cindy Ecksol: outlined
Cindy Ecksol: last term was very productive, and I’m looking forward to this term being even more interesting
Symo Kurka: CSDF?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one second, we have 5 priorities
Symo Kurka: kk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: copying and pasting
Justice Soothsayer: I think it is a fine to do list as well, but would want to put in a special word endorsing encouraging creativity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: here it goes….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Cooperation with other communities.
Moon Adamant: hello all
Lilith Ivory: hi moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Culture and the Arts.
Delia Lake: hi Moon
Moon Adamant is so sorry for being late
Pip Torok: hi Moon!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. More Citizen Participation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. Electoral Reform (oh yes, we haven’t forgotten )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 5. Redevelopment
Justice Soothsayer: btw, we should make Gwyn swear
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point!
Pip Torok: true Justice!
Justice Soothsayer: and I don’t mean curse.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Symo Kurka: Lol
Justice Soothsayer: That comes later.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: i can make gwyn swear…
Rose Springvale:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Ok thank you Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
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Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Rose too
Pip Torok: applause!!
Jamie Palisades smiles, applauds the Senator from FIC
Jamie Palisades: heh
Symo Kurka: Is there any place where we can read details on your priorities doc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Symo
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m looking for a link
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I should also say that we’re really preparing some bills for all these points
Symo Kurka: Sonja is there any doc on priorities from your faction?
Sonja Strom: Not that I know of as such, but our party platform is posted in the CDS Forum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More details here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2249 (“Our goals for 2009”)
Symo Kurka: Thank you Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the bills are ‘under writing’, as soon as we have some of them finished for open discussion, they’ll be posted on the forums as usual)
Symo Kurka: So we have two detailed priorities docs, from SP and from CSDF
Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2252
Sonja Strom: This platform was approved by a vote of the DPU membership.
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Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here for the CSDF actually….
Symo Kurka: I invite evrybody to read them and we’ll get back on this subject next week
Sonja Strom: However, we have arrived at a short list of our five main priorities that we can share with the community here.
Sonja Strom: Review of General Master Plan, especially with regard to addition of new sim(s) that would expand the mountain-oriented Alpine theme.
Symo Kurka: Ok Sonja go on
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
Sonja Strom: Clarification of the role of the New Guild in the community, including its structure and its relationship to the CDS government.
Sonja Strom: Continuing the work of the Election Commission.
Sonja Strom: Referendum Voting allowed, where the RA could place yes/no questions on the ballot for the citizens to vote on.
Sonja Strom: Making the CDS a more interesting and fun place to be.
Sonja Strom: Thanks
Jamie Palisades: /Me listens to Sonja, raises his hand for afterwards
Sonja Strom: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Let me just say, with affection for all factions including my own, that I am a skeptic of platforms. Some hold them in great esteem. But to quote my mother, of sainted memory … action talks, bombast walks Well. It was SOME word with a “b” anyway. So let us all strive to impress our colleagues with well-drafted adopted legislation and effective acts, not plans
Symo Kurka: You can speak Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
Jamie Palisades: I have read a lot of creat CDS faction platforms
Jamie Palisades: perhaps we could pave the road to sim 5 with them
Jamie Palisades: done
Moon Adamant:
Symo Kurka: We are not speaking about platforms, we are speaking about goals and priorities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, goals and priorities.
Justice Soothsayer: Indeed, the platforms DO pa ve the role to our next sims(s).
Symo Kurka: which makes some difference
Symo Kurka: anyway
Symo Kurka: I’ll try to summarize all your documents for next week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA
Jamie Palisades: (nice turn of phrase, Justice )
Symo Kurka: and we’ll go on with this discussion
Symo Kurka: Yw Ms Gwyn
Symo Kurka: Now
Symo Kurka: Sorry if my inexperience brought us late
Rose Springvale giggles… cds meeting running late? never happens….
Jamie Palisades: Symo, a point of order, if this agenda item is done?
Pip Torok: (now now Rose!:)
Symo Kurka: Yes this pagenda item is done and will be repeated in next RA…I’ll postpone
Symo Kurka: I’ll postpone to next RA discussion on possible new RA organization
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: Havign been appointed, shall I take the oath, Symo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Symo Kurka: Oh yes JaMie sorry
Rose Springvale can make jamie sweart too!
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Sonja Strom: Does the SP have any priorities?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Rose
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, I’ll note under that item that we should appoint an RA Archivist and a LRA pro temporte.
Symo Kurka: Yes Sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Sonja’s questioN!
Jamie Palisades: I had the impression ther were mentioned by Cindy and myself earlier
Symo Kurka: Jamie
Cindy Ecksol: Sonja, Jamie’s priorites (linked early) are ours….
Symo Kurka: it was not so clear
Jamie Palisades: shall we repeat? Is there a preference for text chat over web URI’s?
Sonja Strom: oh, hm
Symo Kurka: Jamie
Symo Kurka: 1) LINK
Symo Kurka: 2) swear
Jamie Palisades: very well
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319
Jamie Palisades: was my short form – and the longer one for the faction is here =>
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2318
Jamie Palisades: .. and …
Symo Kurka: Ok now swear please
Jamie Palisades: I, Jamie Palisades, having been appointed as Chancellor of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm …
Jamie Palisades: … that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. Thank you.
Symo Kurka applauds
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Lilith Ivory: applauds
Moon Adamant applauds
Soro Dagostino: Wooot!
Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
Pip Torok: applauds
Sonja Strom claps
Symo Kurka: Now
Solomon Mosely applauds!
Rose Springvale: bravo.
Sudane Erato: yay boss… congradulations!!
Rose Springvale:
Symo Kurka: Point b) possible new RA organization
Symo Kurka: it’s postponed
Symo Kurka: but i just want you to know
Symo Kurka: My personal opinion is that RA members should work in “commissions”, involving non RA citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Jamie Palisades raises hand for question
Symo Kurka: Commissions’ subjects could be, for instance:
Cindy Ecksol: symo, perhaps you could put some details on what you have in mind on the forum this week
Symo Kurka: 1- CDS economy – commerce – business
2- Territorial policy
3- Culture, education, sports
4- Foreign affairs
But I am open to other suggestions.
Jamie Palisades: (it will wait)
Symo Kurka: We will not discuss this today
Symo Kurka: just have in mind
Symo Kurka: Sure Cindy
Symo Kurka: All governments have ministries and paRLIAMENT commissions
Symo Kurka: ..
Symo Kurka: Now
Symo Kurka: as I was saying this item is postponed to discussion in next RA
Symo Kurka: next III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
Jamie Palisades: Symo
Jamie Palisades: sory, still have question
Symo Kurka: I ask Gwyn or Justice
Symo Kurka: kk
Symo Kurka: yes Jamie?
Justice Soothsayer waits for Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Justice, did RA not inherit form last term a need to designate a deputy RA for continuity purposes? I do not feel a rush – something for Symo to consult with you all about — but just wanted to confirm that the post still now exists?
Symo Kurka: well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Justice mentioned that before.
Symo Kurka: yes
Jamie Palisades: OK good thx, sorry if I missed it
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, we have the LRA pro tempore position to fill
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: So will Justice or Gwyn briefly report on this subject?
Justice Soothsayer: We could do that now, if you’d like. Under RA organization we should also fill RA Archivist and decide on RA rules for the term,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
Justice Soothsayer: symo, I’m not sure what you are looking for as a report for last term, but I’ll just mention that Jamie has already highlighted two….
Justice Soothsayer: items left undone from last term, the Monastery proposal and continuing discussions re Al Anadlus. I would also add that
Justice Soothsayer: we still have the Electoral Commission, though it did not garner much attention last term.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as the Ethics comission (also little attended)
Justice Soothsayer: We also have continuing concerns over vacancy rates and redevelopment of CN and sales in LA.
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, Jamie, Ethics Commission too. Makes me wonder about effectiveness of the Commission model of government, but we’ll save that for another time.
Symo Kurka: Ok Thank you Justice
Symo Kurka: Any other items or proposals before we adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: vote on the deputy LRA first?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll also move to adopt last terms RA rules for this term, unless you would like to make that the first item of business next time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Justice of course
Symo Kurka: Justice please where can i read about it?
Cindy Ecksol thinks it sounds like we should defer rules discussion to next week
Symo Kurka agrees with Cindy
Justice Soothsayer: the rules? looking for link in forums
Soro Dagostino: Move Postponment
Jamie Palisades: it;s in each meeting notice
Cindy Ecksol: second
Jamie Palisades: like this
Jamie Palisades: “The CDS Representative Assembly will meet on 1st February 2009 at 8:00 am SLT (US Pacific Daylight Time) = 17:00 CEU at the Praetorium in Colonia Nova. Yes this location si confirmed. The meeting is expected to last up to 1.30 hours. Please see the following link regarding applicable procedural rules, which constrain some of our agenda and speaking time-limit practices: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701”
Symo Kurka: ah ok
Symo Kurka: ok
Soro Dagostino: Motion is non-debateble
Justice Soothsayer: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701
Jamie Palisades: but yeah, give everyone a week, on that and deputy LR, woudl be my advice not to debate
Soro Dagostino: It is on the floor
Justice Soothsayer: OK with postponing rules and LRA pro temport to next week.
Symo Kurka: That would be kind for new members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine too…
Cindy Ecksol: whoever put it there can withdraw
Symo Kurka: I move to adjourn guys
Justice Soothsayer: sounds like we have a consensus to table
Justice Soothsayer: But Symo, rules also require a period of open discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: Not that I have anything, but perhaps someone else does.
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Soro Dagostino: I am sorry, but there is a motion of precedence before the body.
Cindy Ecksol: who proposed the vote on rules? must be withdrawn…..
Soro Dagostino: It is a simple vote to postpone.
Justice Soothsayer: Cindy, I raised the rules issue and said it was OK to postpone to next time.
Cindy Ecksol: justice, you moved — please withdraw
Cindy Ecksol: ok
Cindy Ecksol: ok, soro?
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Jamie Palisades smiles -the adjounement or the postponment? Ladie and gentlemen, the quickest way out here is EITHERr for justice to withdraw OR better for symo to ackowledgement that Soro’s priovilieged postposement motion passes with out objection
Justice Soothsayer: I then suggested Symo hold on his motion to adjourn until we have complied with the rules calling for a period of open discussion in case anyone else has anything to add.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Jamie Palisades: then you have symo’s privileged adjounrment motion
Cindy Ecksol: justice has withdrawn
Symo Kurka: Justice has withdrawn, the discussion is postponed to next RA, we are moving to adjourn
Soro Dagostino: Yay!
Cindy Ecksol is waiting to see if anyone has any open discussion items
Justice Soothsayer: Not that anyone seems to be bursting with comments, I just thought it would be helpful to afford the chance.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to adjourn
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Rose Springvale: would like to sneak in an annoucement to remember the ball today
Cindy Ecksol: yes!
Symo Kurka: and aye
Lilith Ivory smiles
Rose Springvale: totally out f order of course
Justice Soothsayer votes aye since Rose snuck in her announcement.
Cindy Ecksol: music, dance, and scintillating conversation….
Moon Adamant: oh, can i do an announcement after Rose?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye aye aye
Symo Kurka: Hmm justice you did not vote
Symo Kurka: ah ok
Rose Springvale: yes he did ol
Cindy Ecksol: don’t forget to wear your Pittsburgh Steelers clothing!
Rose Springvale: lag lag lag
Justice Soothsayer: “[9:50] Justice Soothsayer votes aye since Rose snuck in her announcement.”
Symo Kurka: THANK YOU ALL FOR THE PATIENCE
Moon Adamant: thank you Symo
Gwyneth Llewelyn:

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 08, 2009

Agenda

RA AGENDA 8th FEBRUARY 2009, 9:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM

I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:15)
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: tbd, polls on timing.

II. LRA SHORT SLOT (9:15 to 9:20)
a. Request for economy monitoring advisors

III. DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION (9:20 to 9:35)
a. Proposals, discussion and vote

IV. CHANCELLOR’s MONTHLY REPORT (9:35 to 9:45)

V. GENERAL MASTER PLAN
a. Adoption, discussion, approval procedures and vote (9:45 to 9:55)
a. Rough schedule for approval and vote (9:55 to 10:05)

VI. COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES (10:05 to 10:20)
a. Open Discussion

VII. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (10:20 to 10:30)
a. List of actions and bills pending
b. Schedule proposals

VIII. CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS (10:30 to 10:40)
Events pending

IX. OPEN DISCUSSION
a. Items proposed by citizens (10.40 to 10.55)
b. Works closed and Adjournment (11:00)

Transcript

Meeting on 2009-02-08 at 08:38
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.08:38
Symo Kurka: messaggio di prova messaggio di prova08:51
Symo Kurka: Lol08:51
Symo Kurka: Hi Justice08:51
Symo Kurka: not from this RA..08:51
Symo Kurka: just to start gettin used to it08:51
Symo Kurka: and it will be SHARED08:51
Symo Kurka: so anybody who wants to make a presentation will be able to..
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.08:55
Symo Kurka: Tough job Justice….08:57
Justice Soothsayer: hi Lilith08:58
Symo Kurka: hello evrybody08:58
Symo Kurka: Hi lilith09:00
Symo Kurka: Thanks for coming Lilith…09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Sonja09:01
Justice Soothsayer: hi Sonja09:01
Symo Kurka: Hello Ms Erato09:01
Justice Soothsayer: g’morning all
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.09:02
Symo Kurka: Not yet Sudane, just get used to the screen presence…09:03
Justice Soothsayer: not THOSE kinds of movies, Sudane09:03
Sonja Strom: hehe09:04
Sonja Strom: The kids 09:04
Sonja Strom: hehee09:06
Symo Kurka: All welcome on board, can we start?09:06
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens, guests of the CDS09:06
Symo Kurka: Welcome to RA.09:07
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.09:07
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*09:07
Symo Kurka: Moon, Cindy, Soro, Pip…09:08
Lilith Ivory: hehe yw moon
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.09:08
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol today is really impossible… 09:08
Sonja Strom: Hi Timo!09:08
Symo Kurka: Some place on my left wing09:08
Lilith Ivory: np09:08
Lilith Ivory: hi Timo09:08
Sudane Erato: hi 09:09
Symo Kurka: Please evrybody touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.09:09
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, the recorder thinks I am you Symo.
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.09:09
Lilith Ivory: does the recorder tells me that I touched it?09:09
Symo Kurka: just a mom checking the recorder guys09:10
Timo Gufler: hi Solomon09:10
Moon Adamant: if you click twice, yes09:10
Cindy Ecksol: no, soro it’s NAME is notetaker 2.0.1 Symo 09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No LIlith, although if you touch it twice, it gives an error…09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles09:10
Lilith Ivory: ah ok – I?m never sure if I managed it to touch it correctly09:10
Sonja Strom: lol me either09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed09:10
Cindy Ecksol: if you right-click and touch it will tell you that you signed in…09:11
Lilith Ivory: ah ok 09:11
Symo Kurka: Sorry guys touch agin the recorder please
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Ok
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Members of RA,
Symo Kurka: you can see today’s agenda in
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2325
Symo Kurka: and I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable?
Symo Kurka looks around
Cindy Ecksol: no objections here
Pip Torok: none here
Justice Soothsayer: ok here
Symo Kurka: Gwyn, Sonja’
Symo Kurka: *?
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens,
Symo Kurka: anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Sonja Strom: no objection to the agenda
Moon Adamant: i do, just in case
Patroklus Murakami: me too, just in case
Symo Kurka: Moon.. Pat.. anybody else?
Symo Kurka: d) About next RA timing,
Soro Dagostino: Point of order?
Symo Kurka: Soro?
Symo Kurka: …
Soro Dagostino: When you ask that we state that we want to speak to agenda matters?
Soro Dagostino: Do you mean we must now or hold our peace?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, RA members can talk on *any* agenda items; it’s just citizens that ought to register first …
Symo Kurka: point c) og ITEM I
Symo Kurka: adm stuff
Symo Kurka: lol ok rthanks Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: don’t mention it
Soro Dagostino: Sorry — I am just a newbie.
Symo Kurka: me too Soro…
Symo Kurka: About next RA timing, I asked Sonja to help me (and help you..)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww that’s fine, Soro, and you are NOT
Symo Kurka: monitoring your average sunday availabilities with a poll .
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, maybe it would help if we voted officially to re-adopt the last RA’s rules that govern such things as speaking order; of course, they are still in effect unless changed, I think.
Symo Kurka: If there is any result I ask sonja to share it with all RA AFTER this meeting.
Symo Kurka: they are still in effect ,
Symo Kurka: limiyed by wxperience,
Symo Kurka: *limited
Symo Kurka: and if you avoid interrupting it’s better
Symo Kurka: If there is not any result, or we did not get enough answers, we’ll repeat the poll in the next days, and in THE MEANWHILE next RA will take place on 15th february, same time as today.
Sonja Strom raises hand
Symo Kurka: Just to know Sonja, how many answers did you get?
Symo Kurka: yes Sonja..
Sonja Strom: Everybody has responded except you, Symo
Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
Symo Kurka: LOL
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Moon Adamant:
Sonja Strom: lol!
Symo Kurka: Great
Symo Kurka: thks
Pip Torok: hehe
Soro Dagostino: Heh!
Symo Kurka: we’ll talk about it at the end ok?
Sonja Strom: ok
ymo Kurka blushes
Moon Adamant:
Justice Soothsayer: can we talk about it now? not sure I can make it to the end.
Symo Kurka: The next item on our agenda is a quick slot i asked for me.
Symo Kurka: Justicde
Symo Kurka: please
Symo Kurka: you know very well that discussing on tinming here would keep us busy foe two hours
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, not to be hypertechnical, but this was the time on the agenda where we were suppposed to decide on the next meeting.
Symo Kurka: so my answer is NO
Symo Kurka: we’ll discuss it apart from RA
Justice Soothsayer: I’m OK with Feb 15th at 9 am, FWIW
Symo Kurka: The next item
Symo Kurka: Is
Symo Kurka: When we wonder
Symo Kurka: Should we open new sims? should we not?
Symo Kurka: I’ve read in programs and platforms much concern about the economic situation and request of prudence in developing new sims.
Symo Kurka: I obviously share concerns.
But
Symo Kurka: Concerns, and fears based on rumors are not in our style, are they.
Symo Kurka: We need more rationals to sustain our choices.
Symo Kurka: We need informations, data and comments both on SL economy and on CDS economy.
Symo Kurka: We need a permanent monitoring of trends, if we want to share decisions not based on fears or rumors but based on reasonable analysyis.
Symo Kurka: I personally feel a strong need for all that, and I therefore request our Treasurer
Symo Kurka: AND whoever wishes to help to:
Symo Kurka: – keep monthly track of economic and demographic trends data (SL and CDS)
Symo Kurka: – show a monthly brief report both in web and in world, during the first RA meeting of the month
Cindy Ecksol raises hand
Symo Kurka: Yes Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: I am not sure that I know what you mean by “economic trends”
Symo Kurka: and after Cindy, Sudane, for any comment
Symo Kurka: yes
Symo Kurka: will you explain Sudane please’
Sudane Erato: We are drafting a list of SL based and CDS based economic facts
Sudane Erato: like
Sudane Erato: how many new islands were formed
Sudane Erato: or how much land sells for
Sudane Erato: in particular…
Sudane Erato: how those numbers have changed from last month
Sudane Erato: the exact things we report on will probably evolve
Sudane Erato: as we discover which are useful and which are not
Solomon Mosely raises hand
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, that’s a great idea. I’d also like to see data on our vacancy rates and delinquency rates.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that
Sudane Erato: I’m debeloping the list with Symo
Sudane Erato: so… please feedback to him
Moon Adamant: brb
Symo Kurka: I would consent Solomon to intervene..
Symo Kurka:
Sudane Erato is functioning as lackey
Solomon Mosely: thanks symo,
Symo Kurka: Btw Justice you know the GIGO principle?
Solomon Mosely: i was going to ask if absorption rates were included in the data gathered
Symo Kurka: I’ll explain later, go on Sol
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: I see many volunteers around
Symo Kurka: Listen
Symo Kurka: The next step will be working together on the first draft edition of this “VIRTUAL ECONOMY MONTHLY OBS” to findout the most meaningful data available.
Sudane Erato: what is absorption rate?
Cindy Ecksol: what kind of volunteers are you looking for, symo?
Symo Kurka: You can define it later on
Solomon Mosely: how long ittakes land to sell
Symo Kurka: I mean
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, not sure what you mean about GIGO and request for info about CDS vacant land?
Symo Kurka: I’ll start with Sudane with a list of data AVAILABLE
Sudane Erato: yes… some data is very diff icult to collect
Symo Kurka: AVAILABLE and MEANINGFUL
Symo Kurka: and all volunteers can propose more figures
Symo Kurka: explaining what they do mean
Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
Symo Kurka: and which is the source
Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
Symo Kurka: Please evrybody touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Solomon Mosely has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Is that clear?
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: um….no, not really
Solomon Mosely nods
Symo Kurka: Cindy
Sonja Strom: lol
Sonja Strom: not to me either… but it’s ok
Cindy Ecksol: I think you are asking for volunteers to….imagine what numbers we might want?
Symo Kurka: when we discuss whether to buy or not a new sim
Symo Kurka: …
Arria Perreault: volunteers for what?
Cindy Ecksol: or maybe to collect nubers?
Sudane Erato: i think we will be a bit unclear at the beginning as we learn to evolve what works and what doesn’t
Symo Kurka: aah
Symo Kurka: we update on this to next RA meeting ok?
Cindy Ecksol: or…..what?
Moon Adamant: back
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
Symo Kurka: Ok we’ll see next RAwhat we managed to do. I move now
Jamie Palisades: My apologies, ladies & gentlemen. I am having some severe and distracting RL issues today, and can only stay a moment. Perhaps I can ask for my report to be moved?
Symo Kurka: to The next item on our agenda is
DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION
Justice Soothsayer: Symo & Sudane, perhaps in the interests of transparency we could have a forum thread asking folks for suggestions of data that could be reported periodically.
Symo Kurka: Yes Justice sure
Sudane Erato: Justice, that would be fine with me
Symo Kurka: we have no peoblems of transparency ion figures
Symo Kurka: Jamie it’s ok
Symo Kurka: I move to next point
Arria Perreault: the conception of a statistical system is not trivial
Symo Kurka: Comments on forums please
Arria Perreault: it need some skill
Symo Kurka: DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION
Symo Kurka looks around
Symo Kurka: Is there any procedure defined for the Deputy LRA nomination?
Sudane Erato: sorry… sim emergencies call
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane:
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll nominate Cindy for the job.
Moon Adamant: er… ask for victims er volunteers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice
Justice Soothsayer: If she will forgive me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Justice’s nomination, if Cindy’s willing.
Cindy Ecksol thinks that if she’s going to stay out of trouble she’d better stop answering IM’s
Symo Kurka: Cindy is again of SP faction
Symo Kurka: would not be ciorrect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cindy
Symo Kurka: *correct
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh actually, I think it would, Symo…
Symo Kurka: sorry Cin
Moon Adamant: CSDF doesn’t seem to object, though
Symo Kurka: ?
Justice Soothsayer: Gwyn did the job for 2 weeks last term even tho she was of the same faction as the LRA
Symo Kurka: i would propose
Symo Kurka: Sonja (because of the numbers of votes she collected)
Pip Torok: without a procedure for nomination nothings correct or incorrect
Symo Kurka: Sonja??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… i mean… the deputy LRA is a replacement of teh LRA when the LRA is not available… and it sort of makes sense to be someone aligned to the same politics & style, to keep things less ‘disruptive’
Sonja Strom: It makes sense for a Deputy LRA to be of the same party as the LRA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Sonja
Cindy Ecksol reluctantly agrees with sonja
Sonja Strom: Right
Symo Kurka: Lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you agree to be nominated as well, Cindy
Symo Kurka: I’m in minority as far as I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Symo
Symo Kurka: ))
Moon Adamant: run Cindy run!
Symo Kurka: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Jamie Palisades: actually I’d think that , if factuion control is important to CDS, the deputy usually would be of the same faction .. . but this is for the RA to decide and .. obviously we have not discussed as a faction what Symo plans
Cindy Ecksol: yes, I accept the nomination
Symo Kurka: we set a motion
Symo Kurka: wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I agree with you, yes
Symo Kurka: + we have to vote for you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do, yes
Justice Soothsayer: I move that nominations be closed and Cindy elected by acclamation.
Symo Kurka: Votes aye in favour of Cindy as deputy LRA
Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye too
Soro Dagostino: Second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Justice
Cindy Ecksol does her best to get out of the way of the stampede
Justice Soothsayer votes ye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that would be even more nicer
Soro Dagostino: Now its on the floor.
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: *aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Symo Kurka: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy’s allowed to vote too….
Cindy Ecksol: abstain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Justice Soothsayer notes for the record that the job is “LRA pro tempore”
Justice Soothsayer: Latin being required in the Praetorium from time to time
Jamie Palisades: ipso facto
Symo Kurka: pro tempore? means pro 6 months
Jamie Palisades: quid pro quo and all that
Cindy Ecksol makes a note to bone up on her latin in case she has to sit in for Symo
Pip Torok: (quod erat demonstrandum:)
Symo Kurka: alea iacta est
Moon Adamant: fortuna audaces juvat?
Jamie Palisades: and if I had the Latin for it I would say, in Latin, my apolgies for postponing my report and best wishes to you all
Symo Kurka: Now
Cindy Ecksol: vivat musica aeterna
Symo Kurka: The next item on our agenda was CHANCELLOR’s MONTHLY REPORT
Symo Kurka: And ok, we move it to next RA
Soro Dagostino: Jamie was unable to stay.
Symo Kurka: ..)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too late…
Symo Kurka: FIFTH item
Symo Kurka sweats
Symo Kurka: GENERAL MASTER PLAN
Cindy Ecksol obligingly turns down the thermostat
Gwyneth Llewelyn shivers at that
Moon Adamant stands to attention
Symo Kurka: GENERAL MASTER PLAN
Symo Kurka: i’m glad i provoked some debate
Symo Kurka: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2329
Symo Kurka: Though i also realize i raised a huge amount of questions, doubts, and skepticism.
Gwyneth Llewelyn just smiles
Soro Dagostino: From your note in the forum, we are to look at the procedures?
Timo Gufler nods
Symo Kurka: Our goal should be to get the draft bill proposed on forums amended and fully shared by RA members, and therefore I will
Symo Kurka: 1) Propose to Gwyn to lead and draw a second draft of GMP bill?
Symo Kurka: 2) Ask for debate and voting on the following motion:
Symo Kurka: – Shall RA define procedures for GMP adoption, this meaning:
– Accepting GMP fundamentals (to be clearly defined) – Defining how/who makes it operational – How/who might propose specific updates to it – How/who might ask for a general Revision?
Symo Kurka: So 1) Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah… well, after reading the last 2 comments,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s much less consensual now that we need to have an OFFICIAL master Plan
Symo Kurka: I just want FEW things to be clear.
Cindy Ecksol: ack!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro & Jamie were actually quite thorough in explaining that the GMP is just “optional”, just “guidelines”, and might not need more than that
Symo Kurka: GMP cannot be a “recommendation” has to become a law, a SHARED view of our territorial development, with all needed flexibilities (and I think we got many flexibility opportiunities).
Cindy Ecksol: I’d say the real question is do we WANT it to be more?
Symo Kurka: BUT there has to be an official (and -repeat- shared) track of the way we want to develop our territory
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I see your point, Symo
Symo Kurka: This does not mean it is “written on stone”
Sonja Strom: I see no need for the RA to limit itself to the decisions of a Non-Governmental Organization.
Cindy Ecksol agrees with Sonja
Symo Kurka: BUT
Moon Adamant: technically, i agree with Symo
Symo Kurka: it does not either mean that it can be IGNORED by anybody who rules this community.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I read Jamie & Soro correctly (and please forgive me if you meant something different), the GMP is “as official as the Chancellor/RA/Guild decide to make it official” , and that is allegedly “more than enough”
Sonja Strom: The Guild is welcome to make recommendations, but it is not in the interest of the RA to limit itself.
Moon Adamant: well, it seems to me that the problem here is not the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it isn’t
Cindy Ecksol: Symo, let me see ifi I undrstand what you are trying to accomplish here
Moon Adamant: but who effective?ly approves and empowers the GMP
Symo Kurka: Exactly
Moon Adamant: am i correct?
Justice Soothsayer: I think the idea is that the GMP is used as a tool by the RA in informing its decisions but does not have the force of law, and is therefore more flexible.
Cindy Ecksol thinks that moon got to it…
Sonja Strom: exactly, Justice, I agree with that view.
Cindy Ecksol is ok with that too
Moon Adamant: Justice, you are correct, in tjhe sense that the GMP is a ever-modifying document
Symo Kurka: So
Symo Kurka: guys
Cindy Ecksol: but Symo, is this what you had in mind?
Symo Kurka: let me say
Moon Adamant: everytime we build a new sim, the GMP is actualized
Arria Perreault: GMP should only give general lines for the expansion. It is not a plan to be implemented. We have experienced that SL can change very quickly. This strict GMP would be a barrier. And I think also that creativity in CDS comes from NGO and citizen.
Symo Kurka: if tomorrow morning
Symo Kurka: i decide as LRA or chancellor
Symo Kurka: that i want a sim with skyscarpers nect to AM it’s ok?
Moon Adamant: i would like to answer Arria next, please
Justice Soothsayer: No, no, no, the final power rests with the RA.
Symo Kurka: Exactly Justice
Justice Soothsayer: Not the LRA or Chancellor. Jamie’s comments make thatquite clear.
Cindy Ecksol raises a hand
Symo Kurka: If I manage to get the simple majority
Symo Kurka: that we WANT a skyscarpers sim next to AM it’s ok then?
Symo Kurka: simple majority
Cindy Ecksol is still holding up her hand
Cindy Ecksol is still holding up her hand
Symo Kurka: Cindy pleas your turn
Soro Dagostino: Soro/raises hand
Moon Adamant: and me next?
Moon Adamant:
Cindy Ecksol: symo, what exactly do you want to accomplish that is NOT already in the law?
Justice Soothsayer: In that case, yes, a simple majority would do. Though there might be some constitutional issues that the SC would use to slow things down a bit.
Justice Soothsayer hushes
Symo Kurka: Ok Cindy, Soro, then Moon
Cindy Ecksol: In other words, what law do you want to change or amend?
Patroklus Murakami raises a hand
Cindy Ecksol: or what new law do you want to put in place?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy question and remains silent
Symo Kurka: Soro next
Soro Dagostino: I beleive the RA makes the final decision.
Cindy Ecksol wonders if she gets an answer first….
Soro Dagostino: It may take suggestions from the NGO.
Soro Dagostino: And other comments at the same time.
Soro Dagostino: And decide — heh! If it can
Cindy Ecksol: Symo…my point is that we already have a law that instructs the RA to consider the GMP
Symo Kurka: Moon?
Soro Dagostino: “consider.”
Moon Adamant: ok, please bear with me for a bit
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn just dug it out for me: NL 8-4: “The New Guild shall also create, update and maintain a CDS master plan under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur.”
Moon Adamant: first of all, you must realize that the GMP is a plan done by the New Guild at the request of teh CDS
Moon Adamant: second, you must understand that the GMP is in constant actualization and reviewal, and that it is a plan for territorial organization at its minimal level
Moon Adamant: it just defines: themes, densities, topography, connections, so i fail to see in which way it restrains creativity
Moon Adamant: and in thrid place, i would like to inform this RA that the GMP is at this moment in revision, and the first results for discussion will be available next week. Thank you.
Symo Kurka: Patroklus…
Symo Kurka: Pat?
Symo Kurka: Mr Murkami wished to talk…
Symo Kurka: In the meanwhile I remind you
Symo Kurka: RA can IGNORE Guilds recommendations. but cannot ignore its own laws.
Moon Adamant: indeed
Justice Soothsayer: RA can amend its own laws.
Patroklus Murakami: sorry was afk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pat )
Symo Kurka: GMP is an idiot thing if it REMAINS a guild recommendation
Symo Kurka: just to say at LL exhibitions we are clever
Patroklus Murakami: i understand the desire to make the GMP something more than just guidance
Symo Kurka: GMP has to be discussed debated shared
Patroklus Murakami: i think it needs to be more than just guidance
Symo Kurka: go on Pat
Timo Gufler raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: we need to have a plan and provide predctability
Arria Perreault: it is already discussed, shared
Patroklus Murakami: but we also need flexibility and must not tie the hands of future RAs
Patroklus Murakami: for example, if we welcome AA into the CDS we will have a much bigger community
Patroklus Murakami: that might elect an RA with different priorities
Patroklus Murakami: so we need to have a plan, but be prepared to change it when needed
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all i really wanted to say
Symo Kurka: Great, pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bravo, Pat!
Symo Kurka: i share your view
Symo Kurka: which means in other terms
Symo Kurka: that the “vision” of our territorial development must be shared
Symo Kurka: +widely shared
Symo Kurka: and cannot be just in the hands of THREE citixens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: three?
Symo Kurka: +whxch is the simple majorityn of RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
Symo Kurka: Timo
Symo Kurka: please
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Timo Gufler: Just one question: should we give more time for the public discussion about the proposed act? There have been only couple of days for it…
Symo Kurka: and Soro afterwards
Symo Kurka: Yes sure Timo
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* too
Symo Kurka: we won’t skip discussion
Cindy Ecksol raises hand ALSO!!!!
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: Soro, Gwyn, Cindy
Symo Kurka: Soro
Soro Dagostino: The simple majority is allowed by our law.
Soro Dagostino: It is the body to decide.
Symo Kurka: Done? next..
Symo Kurka: Gwyn??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just like to remove the intention, expressed on the forums,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that there should be a “shorter” bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. one empowering the GMP to become ‘law’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was not my purpose ? but to be clear, I withdraw it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like many others, I understand Symo’s concern that the GMP becomes “a worthless document”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which nobody here really wants to happen
Symo Kurka: .. as actually GMP IS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and as a RA member, I pledge to respect the document in itself as well as I can, and to defend its use, adoption, and continuing discussion with the whole citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think it is a worthless document +at all+
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m also not 100% sure that “making it law” is the right approach; much less making it *a part of the COnstitution*
Symo Kurka: Has evrybody forgotten NUcare??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “People come and go, CDS remains”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, that’s all, thank you
Sonja Strom: Symo, what about NuCARE?
Symo Kurka: exactly Gwyn
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Patroklus Murakami: LOL! how could we forget?
Symo Kurka: well i quoted Nucare
Symo Kurka: just to mean how easy it CAN be to have a mad majority in here
Symo Kurka: anyway
Sonja Strom: Sorry, I still don’t understand what you mean about NuCARE, Symo
Patroklus Murakami coughs “NuCARE and…”
Symo Kurka: Cindy’s turn
Sonja Strom: That a majority of RA members can be wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: ok…
Symo Kurka: Sonja
Cindy Ecksol waits for symo
Symo Kurka: actually THREE people can decide to open a skyscarpers sim nect to AM
Symo Kurka: Cindy
Symo Kurka: your turn
Soro Dagostino: that’s why our terms are only 6 months long?
Justice Soothsayer raises hand
Symo Kurka: lol
Cindy Ecksol: symo, i think that the problem is that we haven’t reviewed properly the laws that are in place
Symo Kurka: Cindy??
Sonja Strom: NuCARE never had a majority in the RA, did it?
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn and I would like to take on a review of what we have
Cindy Ecksol: and present to RA next week our findings….
Cindy Ecksol: will explain what is REQUIRED now…and what is not.
Cindy Ecksol: and hopefully clarify anything that is needed
Symo Kurka: That’s perfect Cindy, Gwyn, I thank you
Cindy Ecksol: perhaps even suggest a bill that will cover those needs
Symo Kurka: and i would also suggest you to focus on what can be NEEDED from GMP
Symo Kurka: not necessairily the whole of it
Symo Kurka: but what is NEEDED
Symo Kurka: for a safer territorial government
Symo Kurka: Ok
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Symo Kurka: So for now we do not vote anything
Symo Kurka: ….Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro exactly
Cindy Ecksol: second
Symo Kurka: second
Justice Soothsayer: second
Cindy Ecksol:
Symo Kurka: Waiting for Cindy-Gwyn coommission
Symo Kurka: reporting to next RA
Soro Dagostino: Call the question — non-debatable.
Cindy Ecksol whspers to Symo “All in favor….”
Symo Kurka: and maybe preapring a new draft bill
Symo Kurka: We’re voting?
Sonja Strom: One thing I would like to say is, the basic assumption of democracy is that all citizens can be involved in how decisions are reached, and the final decisions come from a majority view.
Cindy Ecksol: yes, symo — motion on the floor to postpone the discussion
Soro Dagostino: TY
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, sure, postpone
Symo Kurka: We vote to postpone
Cindy Ecksol: no…YOU vote to postpone.
Cindy Ecksol: you musut ask US to vote too
Soro Dagostino: Ask for the vote.
Symo Kurka: Vote please not joke
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Sonja Strom votes aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye to postpone this topic
Symo Kurka: and aye
Symo Kurka: recommending Cindy-Gwyn report
Symo Kurka: Next Item
Symo Kurka: in agenda
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone.
Symo Kurka: VI. COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye (with chat lag)
Symo Kurka: I particularly ask CDSF members to report on this item
Justice Soothsayer raises hand to address “Cooperation with other Communities”
Symo Kurka: Justice
Symo Kurka: )
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks Symo
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm
Justice Soothsayer: The most pressing of these “other communitieis” is AA
Justice Soothsayer: Last week in his confirmation hearing Jamie laid out one possible roadmap for incorporating AA
Justice Soothsayer: “Jamie Palisades: it works in my view exactly like a native sim additionb
Jamie Palisades: some financial feasibility details must be developed and brought to RA
Jamie Palisades: that’s my jon
Jamie Palisades: job – assume you reappoint me to it
Jamie Palisades: and the RA must approve maps and land acqusitions and covenants
Jamie Palisades: as lways
Jamie Palisades: abasically, a theme and L$ feasibility decision”
Justice Soothsayer: Now, there may be other road maps that could also be used.
Justice Soothsayer: But I support the one that Jamie suggested as our guide for now, keeping in mind that we might consult different maps from time to time.
Justice Soothsayer: Or even change destinations
Justice Soothsayer: Still, the journey of a thousand miles beings with the first step, and the steps Jamie suggested make sense to me.
Justice Soothsayer: *begins
Justice Soothsayer: Done
Symo Kurka: Any other RA member wants to speak about this
Symo Kurka: So do I assume
Symo Kurka: that Justice and Jamie are “project leaders” for the AA item?
Justice Soothsayer: ah, no, I think Jamie is the project leader.
Symo Kurka: )
Symo Kurka: yes Justice but
Symo Kurka: morally
Symo Kurka: COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES belongs to CDSF too…
Symo Kurka: if i’m not wrong
Cindy Ecksol: symo, tha tmay be so….but the AA project is for Jamie to bring to the floor
ustice Soothsayer: belongs to all of us, I think. But the initiative ought to come from discussions thru the Chancellor.
Soro Dagostino: raises hand . .
Pip Torok: but wont Jamie be wearing a CDS hat as Chancellor + project leader?
Cindy Ecksol agrees with pip
Symo Kurka: ..Soro
Symo Kurka: Soro?’
Soro Dagostino: I just think we ought to wait until Jamie is here.
Symo Kurka: ok
Symo Kurka: but Jamie
Symo Kurka: if tomorrow you read transcription )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would agree too… because from our point of view, the CSDF does indeed agree in general with the whole concept… but we need to understand the full concept
Symo Kurka: we want a sharp report on the AA item
Pip Torok: imo the chancellor is in the best position to represent us vivs a vis AA
Symo Kurka: we ALL agree then, sonja??
Sonja Strom: Agreed, yes.
Symo Kurka: we move to postpone
Soro Dagostino: I did.
Symo Kurka: or better
Symo Kurka: to replay
Cindy Ecksol: second
Soro Dagostino: Call the question
Symo Kurka: WPlease vote for asking Chancellor a report on the AA Item
Symo Kurka: defining
Cindy Ecksol: no…that was not the motion
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.
Symo Kurka: status and next steps
Cindy Ecksol: the motion is to postpone discussion on this agenda item
Cindy Ecksol: “cooperation”
Cindy Ecksol: need to vote on that first, symo
Cindy Ecksol: then can have another motion….
Symo Kurka: Postponing COOPERATION doesn’t mean much to me
Symo Kurka: ok
Soro Dagostino: The agenda item.
Symo Kurka: uh
Symo Kurka: Formals
Cindy Ecksol: it is an agenda item…you introduced it, must postpone it if we are not continuing
Symo Kurka: 1) who votes aye for postponing COOPERATION item
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Cindy Ecksol: do we have another motion to ask jamie to bring forward an AA proposal?
Justice Soothsayer: one avatar, one vote, Cindy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Justice Soothsayer: JAmie’s report is already postponed to next time
Symo Kurka: aye…. 2) who votes for asking Chancellor a report on AA item status and next steps
Cindy Ecksol: no…that is his status report on CDS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) aye as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Justice, Cindy is right ? BESIDES the usual report, do a SPECIAL report on AA.
Cindy Ecksol: we don’t want a report on AA status: we want a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry ? proposal
Symo Kurka: do we HAVE a proposal??
Justice Soothsayer: Agreed.
Cindy Ecksol: I move that we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, Symo!
Justice Soothsayer: second
Soro Dagostino: second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would certainly second Cindy’s motion ? THEN we will have a proposal
Symo Kurka: lol so we vote for something we don’t know if it wexists?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No ? we vote to have the Chancellor MAKE a proposal
Justice Soothsayer is not sure that Jamie can have a proposal for us for next week, but sometime soon
Symo Kurka: So
Cindy Ecksol: symo, if it does not exist, Jamie will tell us that….or he will specifically explain why it is not time to make a proposal
Cindy Ecksol: we can always postpone past next week
Symo Kurka: i we are not sure i thgink we would appreciate at least an update
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, so I suggest the amendment: “we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA *as soon as the Chancellor is able to do so*” (or we could add a limit: “within a month”?)
Cindy Ecksol: “update” is too wishy-washy….proposal is what we want
Cindy Ecksol: I would accept an amendment to my motion “within 30 days”
Soro Dagostino: Second accepts.
Symo Kurka: I accept Gwyn’s formula and Cindy’s amendm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, within 30 days
Soro Dagostino: Call the question.
Symo Kurka: we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA within 30 days
Cindy Ecksol: motion on the floor is now: RA requests that within 30 days the Chancellor present a proposal regarding merger with AA
Symo Kurka: Vote aye or nay
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Symo Kurka: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh aye
Symo Kurka: i vote aye as well in meanwhile
Symo Kurka: ok
Pip Torok: aye
Symo Kurka: We move to ITEM VIII
Symo Kurka: CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS
Symo Kurka: But Ms Springvale is not here
Justice Soothsayer: Econ development? VII?
Symo Kurka: Sorry justice
Symo Kurka: VII. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
Sonja Strom: About item VIII, maybe we could allow a dance club somewhere in the CDS.
Symo Kurka: Is anybody able to sum up a list of actions and bills pending?
Symo Kurka:
Symo Kurka: I’m personally in favour Sonja
Cindy Ecksol thinks that is the LRA’s job….
Soro Dagostino: raises hand.
Symo Kurka: Justice is there any bill PENDING on CDS economic development?
Justice Soothsayer: There aren’t any bills pending from last term, though JAmie did say he would like to propose allowing shortterm commercial rentals, I think. No legislation has been introduced.
Symo Kurka: Soro
Soro Dagostino: Thank you Justice
Soro Dagostino: That was my comment.
Symo Kurka: Thanks justice
Symo Kurka: What is clear to me
Justice Soothsayer: Also, we have the skeleton of a Chamber of Commerce but no one has moved forward to form one with an RA-approved charter.
Symo Kurka: it’s TREMENDOUSLY clear
Symo Kurka: we NEED ministers
Symo Kurka: either named from RA or from Chancellor
Symo Kurka: but i RAISE this
Cindy Ecksol considers her prayer skills insuffcient for a ministerial job
Sonja Strom wonders if a state-directed Chamber of Commerce is a really good idea
Symo Kurka: there is NO ONE here
Soro Dagostino: My aliens won’t accept that kind of call.
Solomon Mosely raises hand
Symo Kurka: there is NO oNE here responsible for CDS economic development
Symo Kurka: Solomon
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (after Sol)
Symo Kurka: and after Sol, Gwyn
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Symo Kurka: Solomon go on
Solomon Mosely: would this chamber of commerce be responsible for economic development like the guild is for physical development?
Symo Kurka: Gwyn?
Solomon Mosely: i think its role has been the debate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… just to clarify, a question….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What exactly is meant with “responsible”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry if the question is obvious.
Solomon Mosely: function i guess
Symo Kurka: Yw Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have people who are responsible for ASPECTS of the finances
Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. Treasurer
Symo Kurka: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we also have people who are responsible for approving a budget, e.g. RA
Symo Kurka: what i frankly do not like
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for introducing a budget, e.g. Chancellor
Symo Kurka: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for managing it…in some areas…. PIO for promotion, New Guild for public works…
Symo Kurka: is not having a “minister” for key matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so mmmh the question is basically: what do you think we need more?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ty.
Symo Kurka: exactly Gwyn
Symo Kurka: I think economic development of CDS and diversifyin revenues is a strategic matter
Moon Adamant: i must go now, thanks everyone
Symo Kurka: and needs somebody dedicated…
Symo Kurka: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: ty symo
Patroklus Murakami: well, if feel i bear some measure of blame here
Patroklus Murakami: i started the CDS Traders Association a long time ago, but then was elected LRA and didn’t have time to follow thru
Patroklus Murakami: so take what i say with a pinch of salt
Arria Perreault raises hands
Patroklus Murakami: do as i say, not as i do!
Patroklus Murakami: i woudl hope that any chamber of commerce would arise from the people involved
Patroklus Murakami: rather than by state direction
Patroklus Murakami: there’s somethign about an RA -sponsored CoC that just feels too corporatis to me
Patroklus Murakami: that said, i do think it woudl be good to have an Economics Minister
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Patroklus Murakami: or at least an RA member responsible for thinking about legislation in this area
Arria Perreault:
Patroklus Murakami: Minister is perhaps the wrong word
Symo Kurka: One question Pat
Patroklus Murakami: becasue that feels more ‘executive’
Arria Perreault: (and a culture Ministers)
Patroklus Murakami: economics coordinator perhaps?
Patroklus Murakami: or commissioner?
Patroklus Murakami: anyway, my 2L$
Patroklus Murakami:
Symo Kurka: [10:50] Patroklus Murakami: becasue that feels more ‘executive’
Symo Kurka: what is not clear to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It *could* be an official role of the Executive, of course….
Symo Kurka: if it would be better in executive branch or in RA
Patroklus Murakami: it could gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: and maybe there’s a better case for Ministers being in the Exec branch
Patroklus Murakami: as you know, in the UK we have a weird system
Patroklus Murakami: so Ministers sit in the legislature
Cindy Ecksol thinks she sees the sense in ministers being on the chancellor’s staff
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard both suggestions (ie. part of the Exec; part of the RA) being vented before… but no concrete suggestions (i.e. no bills presented) I think
Arria Perreault would like to speak
Symo Kurka: /thinks Gwyn is volunteering again????
Justice Soothsayer: we also had a commerce commission as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Symo: no way! lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Justice
Symo Kurka b blinks to Gwyn
Symo Kurka: Arria’s turn
Arria Perreault: thank you
Arria Perreault: I think the first thing to do in the economic development in CDS is to know better what is the SL economy
Arria Perreault: you have probably noticed that the former SLexchange and Onrez were bought by LL
Arria Perreault: and that it will be integrated in SL
Arria Perreault: the existence of a Web market and a general SL market has consequences to our own market
Arria Perreault: what happens with our small shop?
Arria Perreault: is it better to sell through a general platform or in a in-world shop
Arria Perreault: I have also told several times that SL has a long tail market
Arria Perreault: this means for us “niche market”
Symo Kurka: Please Arria…time…
Soro Dagostino: brb
Arria Perreault: what can we do to development niche markets here
Arria Perreault: I am done
Symo Kurka: Ok thank you
Symo Kurka: getting back to minister / or cohordinator
Symo Kurka: I would love to see a proposal for next RA
Symo Kurka: OR
Symo Kurka: in forums
Symo Kurka: Can I ask Patroklus
Symo Kurka: to open a thread in Forum on this item?
Patroklus Murakami: sure, np
Symo Kurka: Ok guys
Symo Kurka: I’m very sorry for my inexperience but got late again
Symo Kurka: and i propose we adjourn
Soro Dagostino: so move
Justice Soothsayer: second
Symo Kurka: Who votes aye to adjourn’
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Symo Kurka: Thank you all for your patience
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Good discussions this week
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it was interesting!
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Pip Torok: (and civilised!:)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Cindy
The meeting closed at 11:1 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: February 15, 2009

Agenda

RA AGENDA 15th FEBRUARY 2009, 9:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM

I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:10)
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Dreams’ Prayer.
c. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
d. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
e. Future RA schedule: Sunday 1st March, 9:00 AM SLT

II. CHANCELLOR’s MONTHLY REPORT (9:10 to 9:25)
a. Report
b. Questions and Answers

III. GENERAL MASTER PLAN (9:25 to 9:35)
a. Open discussion

IV. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (9:35 to 9:45)
a. Open discussion

V. CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS (9:45 to 9:55)
a. Open discussion

VI. END SESSION
b. Works closed and Adjournment (10:00)

NOTES:
1. As i do not have at the moment bills pending for approval nor amendments we’ll invest our times in open discussions on ITEMS III, IV, V
2. If i receive bills’ proposals or new agenda items before saturday 9:00 AM SLT i will update this agenda
3. In open discussions thinking positive will be highly appreciated

Transcript

Meeting on 2009-02-15 at 09:00
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Cindy09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Soro
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.09:02
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.09:03
Rose Springvale: afk for a moment09:03
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane09:03
Sudane Erato: hi 09:03
Symo Kurka: Btw i saw CN corner a few minutes ago..09:03
Soro Dagostino: brb — coffee.09:03
Cindy Ecksol: cute new hair, Sudane09:04
Symo Kurka: great job09:04
Sudane Erato: thx Cindy 09:04
Justice Soothsayer: It was a nice party there09:04
Symo Kurka: rasta girl09:04
Sudane Erato: )09:05
Symo Kurka: welcome sonja09:05
Sudane Erato: hi 09:05
Soro Dagostino: Hi Sonja09:05
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.09:06
Sudane Erato: Sonja is trying to find the softest seat 09:06
Sonja Strom: 09:06
Pip Torok: btw rose thanks for the prezzie09:06
Sonja Strom: trying them all09:06
Sudane Erato: hehe09:07
Cindy Ecksol wonders if sonja is testing political positions….09:07
Symo Kurka: Ok I see Solomon approaching09:08
Symo Kurka: Welcome Solomon. Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Solomon Mosely has indicated consent to be recorded.09:08
Solomon Mosely: hi syom , hello everybody09:08
Symo Kurka: I think we can start …09:08
Sudane Erato: hi 09:09
Solomon Mosely: \hello sudane09:09
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sol.09:09
Sudane Erato: hi 09:09
Symo Kurka: Reps and Citizens who wish please do stand up for the prayer please09:09
Solomon Mosely: …soro09:09
Cindy Ecksol: ?09:09
Sonja Strom: Prayer?09:10
Justice Soothsayer: Huh?09:10
Symo Kurka: Oh Father who art in Heaven09:10
Rose Springvale: back09:10
Soro Dagostino: I don’t see my aliens here.09:10
Solomon Mosely: i live in unceasing prayer09:10
Symo Kurka: Give us this Day our daily Dream09:10
Symo Kurka: Help us give a Shape to our Virtual Destiny09:10
Symo Kurka: Let our Citizens live in Harmony09:10
Symo Kurka: And help us find the Right Balance09:10
Symo Kurka: Among our Multiple Lifes09:10
Symo Kurka: And Lead us not into Destruction09:10
Symo Kurka: But Deliver us from Evil and Psychotics09:10
Symo Kurka: Amen09:11
Symo Kurka: thank you all09:11
Symo Kurka: now we can start09:11
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.09:11
Symo Kurka: I have two updates to propose for agenda. 1) a short presentation on the Monthly Economic Observatory, and 2) Justice “RULES OF PROCEDURE, as in viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701 –
09:12
Symo Kurka: Reps,I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable with the update proposals??09:12
Justice Soothsayer: OK with me09:12
Sonja Strom: I’m ok with it09:12
Symo Kurka: cindy?09:13
Symo Kurka: soro?09:13
Symo Kurka: Ok i assume they either agree or crashed09:13
Cindy Ecksol: ok09:13
Cindy Ecksol: sorry…09:13
Symo Kurka: Citizens,
anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?09:14
Soro Dagostino: Reading rules . . . ok09:14
Symo Kurka: And… 1) a short presentation on the Monthly Economic Observatory09:15
Symo Kurka: Look at the screen please09:15
Symo Kurka: ah09:15
Symo Kurka: and have in mind that who ever has presentations can use it in the future09:15
Symo Kurka: i’ll show you 4 slides + a samll comment from Su?dane09:15
Cindy Ecksol sees screen slow to rez…..09:16
Symo Kurka: We decided to start monitoring SL and CDS economy09:16
Symo Kurka: to have more data to decide if it’s the right moment to invest09:16
Symo Kurka: SL economic trends09:16
Symo Kurka: and CDS economic trends09:16
Symo Kurka: on a monthly data09:17
Symo Kurka: This is what is available from LL statistics09:17
Symo Kurka: Residents with land for sale09:17
Symo Kurka: Parcels for sale09:17
Symo Kurka: Total sold by residents09:18
Symo Kurka: Average price per SQM of land sold09:18
Symo Kurka: Users logged in09:18
Cindy Ecksol waiting for screen rez….did not see last slide09:18
Symo Kurka: This is an example of how data will appear09:19
Sudane Erato: that slide was a mistake 09:19
Symo Kurka: Cindy i pass you the slides ok?09:19
Justice Soothsayer: brb09:19
Symo Kurka: Ok sudane it’s just a sample to say09:19
Cindy Ecksol: thank you symo….I am probably not the only one having th eprobelm, so please go a bit slower09:19
Symo Kurka: ok09:20
Soro Dagostino: Raises hand09:20
Symo Kurka: Now you got the four slides in the box here09:20
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro?09:21
Soro Dagostino: Econ Trends,09:21
Soro Dagostino: The stat of 100% seems wrong.09:21
Symo Kurka: well09:21
Soro Dagostino: 100% of what?09:21
Symo Kurka: we can have a 100 start based09:21
Cindy Ecksol: 09:21
Sudane Erato: yes, there should be no number on that row09:21
Symo Kurka: 6160 = 10009:21
Symo Kurka: oh09:21
Symo Kurka: guys09:22
Soro Dagostino: Understand.09:22
Symo Kurka: it works as a START = 10009:22
Cindy Ecksol: and then the 99% should be -1%09:22
Sudane Erato: since the number is the % of the row above it09:22
Symo Kurka: aah09:22
Symo Kurka: it’s the SAME09:22
Symo Kurka: but09:22
Soro Dagostino: 9-1-2009 is the base number.09:22
Symo Kurka: yes soro09:22
Soro Dagostino: TY09:22
Symo Kurka: which helps having a general perspective view of the trend09:22
Sudane Erato: we have no immediate source for prior months09:22
Symo Kurka: rather than % on previous month09:22
Sudane Erato: yes09:23
Sudane Erato: so we have to start here09:23
Symo Kurka: ok09:23
Solomon Mosely: raises hand09:23
Symo Kurka: last slide and then comments from sudane
Cindy Ecksol: so Symo, far right column is intended to be an index?09:23
Symo Kurka: This is what we’ll try to get from our own data..09:23
Symo Kurka: Yes Cindy09:23
Symo Kurka: an index based on start = 10009:24
Cindy Ecksol: thank you — probably best to re-label tha tcolumn then. I was confused09:24
Symo Kurka: ok i suggest comments from Sudane, then questions and answers09:24
Sudane Erato: ok09:24
Sudane Erato: well… we assembled the listed data items09:24
Sudane Erato: because they were what we found available09:25
Sudane Erato: althou… not all the CDS data items are actually available09:25
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm09:25
Sudane Erato: however… if there are suggestions for additional data items..09:25
Sudane Erato: which people think may be useful09:25
Sudane Erato: please bring them to our attanetion… along with the sources09:25
Soro Dagostino: raises hand09:26
Sudane Erato: yes?09:26
Soro Dagostino: Nonpaying parcels?09:26
Soro Dagostino: #09:26
Sudane Erato: hmmm… ok09:26
Symo Kurka: Well09:26
Sudane Erato: that might be useful for management09:26
Symo Kurka: we have the general data of tier payed09:27
Sudane Erato: yes… total revenue we have listed09:27
Symo Kurka: we should not get too much in detail09:27
Justice Soothsayer: Also, maybe a snapshot of parcels for sale or in govt hands; I know we can get for sale data from the map, but at some point the yellow map will be turned off.09:27
Sudane Erato: Soro, i think we should track that for other purposes…09:27
Sudane Erato: Justice..09:27
Soro Dagostino: I think it a valuable tool.09:27
Sudane Erato: that is a data that we’d like to get09:28
Sudane Erato: number os parcels for sale09:28
Sudane Erato: but… its very hard to collect09:28
Symo Kurka: This data should help us to answer the question: “Is it a good moment to buy a new Sim?”09:28
Justice Soothsayer: I see 5 LA parcels today, and 4 CN parcels on the yellow map.09:28
Sudane Erato: yes09:28
Justice Soothsayer: Not counting the repossessed CN plots being redeveloped09:29
Justice Soothsayer: Oh, and 1 in AM.09:29
Soro Dagostino: How many are in that class?09:29
Sudane Erato: at this moment we can count… but i feel its only useful if we know how many went on sale during the month09:29
Justice Soothsayer: Right, that’s why we need a snapshot, so when we run the data points together we can see trends09:29
Pip Torok: agree09:29
Sudane Erato: ok…09:30
Sonja Strom: Maybe there could just be one day each month, as a snapshot.09:30
Sudane Erato: but many parcels might have been bought and sold during the month09:30
Sudane Erato: and we wouild not lnow that09:30
Pip Torok: the same day relative to months end of course!09:30
Sudane Erato: also… i should mention09:31
Sudane Erato: that SIM traffic data… is not really the name09:31
Sonja Strom: Yes Pip, it could be the last day of each month for example.09:31
Sudane Erato: since “traffic” has a particular meaning in SL
Sudane Erato: we want to count the number of unique visitors each month09:32
Sonja Strom: I have an overall question.09:32
Symo Kurka: Ok, guys…09:32
Cindy Ecksol: how can you do that Sudane?09:32
Symo Kurka: Yes Sonja09:32
Sudane Erato: hopefully with a fixed up visitir counter09:32
Sonja Strom: Is this an enjoyable thing for us to do?09:32
Sudane Erato: which references a citizen list09:33
Sonja Strom: If we want to do it, it should be set up so nobody has to keep putting a lot of work into it,09:33
Sudane Erato: hehe09:33
Sonja Strom: unless they find that fun.09:33
Sonja Strom: For example, exactly as Sudane said,09:33
Sudane Erato: i think we want to do it cause the infomation is incredibly valuable09:33
Solomon Mosely: agreed09:33
Symo Kurka: Sure we cannot get MAD collecting data that are hard to collect09:33
Sudane Erato: and we will find a way to get it best we can09:34
Sonja Strom: we could have an automatic visitor counter reference a citizen’s list, and things like that.09:34
Soro Dagostino: Agreed09:34
Sudane Erato: yes09:34
Symo Kurka: Ok09:34
Symo Kurka: are we finished?09:34
Sudane Erato: thats all from me i think09:35
Sonja Strom: My concern is if we start doing things that are complex and not enjoyable for us, then that would take away from the vitality of our community.09:35
Symo Kurka: Nothing to approve, nothing to vote ..09:35
Sonja Strom: It would not be worth it.09:35
Pip Torok: quite so …09:35
Symo Kurka: Well Sonja09:35
Symo Kurka: we’ll have to keep it simple09:35
Sudane Erato: Sonja, I think that experience has shown in the CDS that no one will do what they don’t want to do09:35
Sonja Strom: Right… lol.09:35
Cindy Ecksol smiles09:35
Sudane Erato: 09:36
Sonja Strom: And, well, I would say rightly so!09:36
Sudane Erato: i actually quite agree09:36
Symo Kurka: Can we proceed to Justice RULES OF PROCEDURE?09:37
Sonja Strom: YES09:37
Sonja Strom: lol09:37
Sudane Erato: sorry… must run09:37
Justice Soothsayer: Ithas been pointed out that it is a little confusing that we are actually governed by two separate sets of rules.09:37
Sonja Strom: Thanks Sudane!09:37
Symo Kurka: Thank you Sudane09:37
Symo Kurka: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=170109:37
Soro Dagostino: Move approval of adoption of former rules explained by Jamie09:37
Justice Soothsayer: The first set was adoped some time in the past. the 2nd set in 2008.09:38
Justice Soothsayer: I’ve tried to prepare a draft that incorporates both, for the sake of some clarity.09:38
Justice Soothsayer: viewtopic.php?f=7&p=12973#p1297309:39
Sonja Strom: hi Gwyn 09:39
Justice Soothsayer: So I would ask that we officially adopt the “reconciled” draft.09:39
Justice Soothsayer: thanks.09:39
Symo Kurka: Justice just a short amendment09:40
Cindy Ecksol waves at gwyn09:40
Symo Kurka: “Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of 2 hours”… I would suggest of “maximum” 2 hours09:40
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll second that.
Cindy Ecksol raises hand09:42
Symo Kurka: Ok i anticipate i’m in favour09:42
Symo Kurka: … Cindy?09:42
Cindy Ecksol: Symo, I’ ma bi tconcerned about all th erule sthat specifiy that this item must take 10 minutes and that will take 15….09:42
Cindy Ecksol: seems too restrictive to me.09:42
Symo Kurka: Yes09:42
Cindy Ecksol: and potentially time-wasting.09:42
Symo Kurka: LKisten to me guys09:42
Symo Kurka: i thank Justice for the job he’s done. We all really appreciate it. But please let’s keep it as a guideline…09:42
Symo Kurka: a fklexible guide line09:42
Symo Kurka: I want to make clear that I do NOT think RA has to be JUST a perfect bill approval/voting machine, no…09:43
Justice Soothsayer: I agree Cindy, but thatt’s the rule we have in place now. In practice, the LRA has been able to let discussion go as needed, but having the club of the rules to enforce if needed.09:43
Pip Torok: (so long as “flexible”remains flexible)09:43
Cindy Ecksol: could we perhaps just say that each item gets a minimum of 10 mintues and can be extended by request of any RA member?09:44
Cindy Ecksol: to 15 that is…09:44
Sonja Strom: As I remember, that concept originally came from a concern that some RA members were trying to crowd out certain topics.09:44
Cindy Ecksol: yes…09:44
Symo Kurka: If an item needs 20 minutes discussion it MUST be ok09:44
Cindy Ecksol: so the min of 10 minutes makes sense….just not all the rest of the silliness09:44
Cindy Ecksol: yes, exactly symo09:45
Symo Kurka: the 10 / 15 minutes is a general guideline09:45
Cindy Ecksol: LRA should be able to set any time with consent of RA09:45
Symo Kurka: and has to be managed alas by the LRA09:45
Symo Kurka: YES09:45
Sonja Strom: I would like some clarification of Symo’s request for addition.09:45
Symo Kurka: but we cannot spend our time here asking connsents to evrything09:45
Symo Kurka listens09:45
Sonja Strom: When you say “Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of 2 hours,” this means that only a certain number of topics can be included in the agenda for each session?09:46
Symo Kurka: Flexibility means flexibility09:46
Symo Kurka: ?IF needed09:46
Symo Kurka: *if needed
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.09:47
Cindy Ecksol: symo, those consents can be doneat the beginning when you set an agenda for our approval. if anyone wants more time on an item, they can say, and it will be added then./09:47
Symo Kurka: ok09:47
Sonja Strom: Why I ask that is because I think it would be possible to interpret it as that discussions of topics would need to be shortened to fit them all into a 2-hour schedule.09:47
Symo Kurka: The important to me09:48
Symo Kurka: is09:48
Symo Kurka: not to be considered just an approval machine09:48
Sonja Strom: I think we should allow enough time for each topic, and if we come to the end of the two hours, remaining topics should be moved to the beginning of the next meeting’s agenda.09:48
Pip Torok: strongly agree
Symo Kurka: Don’t you think RA could also be also a “think tank” and an opportunity to involve actively more citizens ?09:49
Symo Kurka: yes agree qith sonja09:49
Sonja Strom: ok09:49
Symo Kurka: And don’t forget one more thing09:49
Sonja Strom: thanks09:49
Symo Kurka: how many opportunities do we have to meet alltogether in world to discuss our future?09:49
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, our practice has been to move unfinished items to the top of the following meeting’s agenda09:50
Symo Kurka: ok shall we proceed to vote?09:50
Cindy Ecksol: what exactly are we voting on?09:50
Symo Kurka: The “Justice Procedure Paper” with my amendment+09:50
Cindy Ecksol: as it stands or as proposed to be amended?09:51
Justice Soothsayer: My draft of the reconicled rules, as amended by Symo’s note that the agenda should be a *max* of 2 hours09:51
Cindy Ecksol: I would also like to propose an amendment: that we eliminate the language that specifices allowcation of time09:51
Cindy Ecksol: or revise it to be less restrictive09:51
Soro Dagostino: raises hand09:52
Symo Kurka: can we just add the adjective “orientitavely” 1o minutes09:52
Symo Kurka: Soro09:52
Cindy Ecksol: ???09:52
Symo Kurka: sorry Gwyn09:52
Symo Kurka: )09:52
Soro Dagostino: Can it be resolved with a call for the question?09:52
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.09:53
Symo Kurka: Hey guys09:53
Symo Kurka: we are messing it up here09:53
Justice Soothsayer is unsure of meaning of ‘orientatively”09:53
Symo Kurka: so can we please redraft it and vote it next week?09:53
Pip Torok: agree with symo09:53
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone09:54
Cindy Ecksol: yes, that would be good09:54
Justice Soothsayer: OK with me.09:54
Cindy Ecksol: second soro09:54
Symo Kurka: Great09:54
Soro Dagostino: Call the question09:54
Symo Kurka: we postpone to e second draft approval, necxt RA meeting who votes yes09:54
Soro Dagostino: Aye09:54
Pip Torok: aye09:54
Justice Soothsayer votes aye to postpone to next meeting09:54
Cindy Ecksol: aye09:55
Sonja Strom: I would rather vote on a complete text, and for this vote choose aye.09:55
Symo Kurka: aye09:55
Symo Kurka: Now next Item09:55
Symo Kurka: Hmm09:55
Symo Kurka: we are missing a Chancellor ))09:56
Symo Kurka: he had huge crashes yesterday09:56
Symo Kurka: we maybe need to buy him a new pc??09:56
Symo Kurka: so09:56
Rose Springvale: he’s traveling i think.. but know he planned to be here09:56
Justice Soothsayer: Has anyone told Jamie we would like a report on AA, other than making him read the RA transcript?09:56
Rose Springvale: there is bad weather in his part of the world today09:57
Symo Kurka: No monthly report today09:57
Symo Kurka: I’m afraid09:57
Sonja Strom: It’s often difficult when traveling in my experience.09:57
Pip Torok: symo would it be fweasible /desirable for Jamie to send in his report as a note if he has problems?09:57
Symo Kurka: Yes Pip09:57
Symo Kurka: good idea09:57
Symo Kurka: though i prefer vis a vis meetings09:58
Symo Kurka: anyway
Symo Kurka: we’ll ask him to send a written monthly report to RA09:58
Symo Kurka: (at least for this time)09:58
Pip Torok: i was thinking of a baxkup if he cannot be face2face09:59
Symo Kurka: Next ITEM09:59
Solomon Mosely: hi09:59
Symo Kurka: GMP10:00
Symo Kurka: I think we have to take our tiome on this subject for 3 reasons10:00
Soro Dagostino: Am I the only one who crashed?10:00
Symo Kurka: 1, Guild is working at revision10:00
Sonja Strom: Soro, I think so.10:00
Symo Kurka: 2, Gwyn – Cindy Committe (with my help lol) is working at procedures10:01
Symo Kurka: 3, its not a subject we can debate or “approve” in a hurry10:01
Symo Kurka: listen10:01
Symo Kurka: when we first mentioned GMP one year ago10:01
Symo Kurka: it fell in a Ddeadly silence10:01
Symo Kurka: now evrybody is chewing it10:01
Symo Kurka: which is good10:02
Symo Kurka: when we all will have a shared view of our community’s interest we will “approve 2 it10:02
Symo Kurka: not before10:02
Symo Kurka: so10:02
Symo Kurka: i WITHDRAW10:02
Symo Kurka: any “bill for approval” for the moment10:02
Symo Kurka: done10:03
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, that is most sensible.10:03
Symo Kurka: any questions?10:03
Symo Kurka: Ty Justice10:03
Sonja Strom: Thank you Symo.10:04
Symo Kurka: BUT10:04
Symo Kurka: be aware10:04
Symo Kurka: it does not mean i give up having a shared vision of our territorial development10:04
Symo Kurka: so i’ll insist in bothering you two girls ok?10:05
Pip Torok: I should hope not, Symo!10:05
Cindy Ecksol: ?10:05
Symo Kurka: yes Cindy-Gwyn committee10:05
Symo Kurka thinks time to adjourn10:05
Rose Springvale: wait!10:05
Rose Springvale: smile10:06
Rose Springvale raises hand to talk under general comments10:06
Symo Kurka: Ms Springvale??10:06
Rose Springvale: thanks 10:06
Rose Springvale: Wanted to thank everyone for your support of the Grand tour yesterday.. we had good turnout for our events10:06
Rose Springvale: and Arria is conducting a third one now, in the monastery10:06
Symo Kurka: LOL and huge griefers too ..)))10:07
Cindy Ecksol: hey, sign of succes!10:07
Rose Springvale: also, if you didn’t get here, go see the ski run, and check out the CDS ski outfits.. you can get special CDS skis for 1 L for the rest of the weekend (maybe longer)10:07
Rose Springvale: and10:07
Sonja Strom: yay!10:07
Sonja Strom: (their cute)10:07
Rose Springvale: Thank Solomon for the GREAT job he did of building us a temporarry temple to Aphrodite in the old Toga space10:07
Rose Springvale: go see that too10:07
Justice Soothsayer dons his CDS goggles10:07
Sonja Strom: YES, Thank You Solomon!10:07
Rose Springvale: and ask someone to tell you what you do when yuo begin an event and the building disappears….10:08
Rose Springvale: smile10:08
Sonja Strom: Great job!10:08
Rose Springvale: it was an EVENTFUL day 10:08
Sonja Strom: And of course, thank you Rose!!10:08
Rose Springvale: ah, here’s arria’s announcnemet, good10:08
Symo Kurka: Ok i move to adjourn
Symo Kurka: next RA meeting the 1st of March!!10:09
Symo Kurka: shall we adjourn?10:09
Symo Kurka: vote please10:09
Pip Torok: seconded10:09
Pip Torok: aye10:09
Justice Soothsayer: Ooh, does that mean we will meet on the Ides?10:09
Symo Kurka: yes abit earlier than Ides Justice …)10:10
Symo Kurka: favoutable to adjour say aye10:10
Justice Soothsayer: aye10:10
Symo Kurka: *favourable10:10
Sonja Strom: aye10:10
Symo Kurka: aye10:10
Symo Kurka: session adjourned10:10
Cindy Ecksol: aye
The meeting closed at 10:10 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 01, 2009

Agenda

RA AGENDA 1st MARCH 2009, 9:00 AM SLT

The CDS Representative Assembly will meet on 1st March 2009 at 9:00 am SLT (US Pacific Daylight Time) = 18:00 CEU at the Praetorium in Colonia Nova. The meeting is expected to last up to maximum 1 hour. Please see the following link regarding applicable procedural rules, which constrain some of our agenda and speaking time-limit practices: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701

I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:10)
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: Sunday 15th March, 9:00 AM SLT

ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA

II. NOMINATION OF ALIASI STONEBENDER TO THE SC (9:10 to 9:20)

III. RA RULES OF PROCEDURE (9:20 to 9:30)
Second draft bill from Justice Soothsayer

IV. CHANCELLOR’s (bi)MONTHLY REPORT (9:30 to 9:40)

V. LAWS FOR TERRITORIAL PLANNING (9:40 to 9:50)
Cin/Gwyn Commission Report

VI. OTHER ITEMS
a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:50 to 10:00)
b. Adjournment (10:00)

Transcript

Note: Due to technical issues, a section of the transcript from 9:19 through 10:30SLT omitted text from Jamie Palisades, Chancellor of the CDS. This transcript has been spliced together from the original and amended transcripts to create a single, complete transcript.

09:00Symo Kurka: Hello Soro
09:00Symo Kurka: coming soro
09:01Symo Kurka: lol
09:01Symo Kurka: we wait five minutes ok?
09:01Symo Kurka: welcome Ms Springvale
09:02Symo Kurka: Hi Pip
09:04Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:04Rose Springvale: smile
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:05Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja
09:05Sonja Strom:
09:06Sonja Strom: Sorry I missed last time – RL.
09:06Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
09:06Rose Springvale: they are little glasses of “jello” made with usually some sort of alchohol
09:06Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi all that I haven’t said hi before )
09:06Symo Kurka: Welcome evrybody
09:07Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:07Symo Kurka: Does anybody have news of Jamie
09:08Rose Springvale: Pip, i’ll send you a recipe
09:08Sonja Strom: lol!
09:08Soro Dagostino: Heard nothing from him . . .
09:08Sonja Strom: He did that in my shop too.
09:08Pip Torok: what some apes will do to get attention!
09:08Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Cindy! Stream it into SL
09:08Rose Springvale: I”m sure he’ll be here. not on the agenda for a while
09:09Pip Torok: perhaps he’ll honour this meeting with his presence!
09:09Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, he just rezzed for me… lol
09:09Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Mael!
09:09Sonja Strom: Hi Mael
09:09Symo Kurka: cindy
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you play Democracy Ballads too, Mael? hehe
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn: ABBA!
09:10Rose Springvale: ohhh
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds!!
09:10Pip Torok: err … I think Symos impervious to your charms!
09:10Rose Springvale: we love Abba
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no
09:11Sonja Strom: Yay – relaxing background music!
09:11Rose Springvale: Mael, we’re about to start a meeting, can i help you with questions about our sims?
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: or at least i should say… not that I’m aware of haha
09:11Pip Torok: youve guessed our dark and arcane secret!!!
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh Pip
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re doomed, now we’ll have to bury him in the sewers
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh background music is nice!
09:12Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have amazing ones, mael!
09:12Pip Torok: you seen Cloaca Maxima then??
09:12Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
09:12Rose Springvale: smile
09:12Gwyneth Llewelyn: this was fuuuun
09:12Symo Kurka: Thank you Mae
09:13Symo Kurka: I suppose we can start now
09:13Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
09:13Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi thirsti!)
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:13Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
09:13Sonja Strom: I was just given an object by “Radar Free V42”
09:13Symo Kurka: Me too
09:13Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
09:13Symo Kurka: I have two updates to propose for agenda.
09:14Sonja Strom: ok
09:14Symo Kurka: PLEASE
09:14Symo Kurka: One update is Sonja’s Referendum Bill if she wishes to start discussion about it
09:14Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
09:14Symo Kurka: The second update is Colonia Nova Texture Contest
09:15Symo Kurka: Reps,
I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable with the update proposals??
09:15Cindy Ecksol: link for agenda, please symo….
09:16Symo Kurka: Yes sorry pip viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2355
thirsti Sweetwater has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:16Soro Dagostino: Move approval to the proposed changes.
09:16Cindy Ecksol: second
09:16Symo Kurka: Ok do we vote for this?
09:16Cindy Ecksol: yes, no discussion necessary
09:16Symo Kurka: Ok
09:17Symo Kurka: any citizen who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
09:17Cindy Ecksol: lol!
09:17Soro Dagostino: Symo — call the question
09:17Cindy Ecksol: still need to vote
09:17Symo Kurka: Sorry
09:17Symo Kurka: we vote for agenda update
09:17Symo Kurka: say aye if you agree
09:17Cindy Ecksol: aye
09:17Soro Dagostino: You will be trained soon LOL
09:18Sonja Strom: aye
09:18Pip Torok: aye
09:18Soro Dagostino: aye
09:18Symo Kurka: gwyn?
09:18Symo Kurka: Hmm i vote aye and we go on if you don’t mind
09:18Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I was actually reading the procedures lol
09:19Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that the LRA could introduce agenda points at whim, but allegedly not.
09:19Gwyneth Llewelyn: SO, well, yes, I vote aye to add thsoe two points to the end the agenda
09:19Sonja Strom: Me too.

[2009/03/01 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and hi jamie)
[2009/03/01 9:19] Jamie Palisades: but Justice’;s new rules would constrint it somewhat
[2009/03/01 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, they would
[2009/03/01 9:19] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 9:19] Jamie Palisades: Gosh what a shock
[2009/03/01 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which we will just vote on point II
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: Ok the first poin is just an info
[2009/03/01 9:20] Justice Soothsayer: sorry to be late
[2009/03/01 9:20] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, Symo tries to work by consensus – i find it admirable – and rather new wave for CDS
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: NOMINATION OF ALIASI STONEBENDER TO THE SC
[2009/03/01 9:20] Soro Dagostino: Move Approval
[2009/03/01 9:20] Sonja Strom: No problem Justice, we are just talking about the agenda for today.
[2009/03/01 9:20] Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: I quote a msg i received from SC
[2009/03/01 9:20] Soro Dagostino: Call the question
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: Since the Stonebender nomination was communicated to you and posted on 28 January, my read of 4-8 is that the RA has a deadline of 27 February to act on the nomination or it is automatically ratified.
[2009/03/01 9:21] Cindy Ecksol: true
[2009/03/01 9:21] Symo Kurka: If there is any objection to Aliasi, a special meeting may be necessary.
[2009/03/01 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Welcome, Aliasi
[2009/03/01 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too late for tha now, Symo hehe
[2009/03/01 9:21] Sonja Strom: Is she here?
[2009/03/01 9:21] Symo Kurka: So if anybody has objections speak now or never
[2009/03/01 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no, but I hope she reads the transcripts, Sonja )
[2009/03/01 9:21] Sonja Strom: I have only one real objection,
[2009/03/01 9:22] Sonja Strom: which is that I do not want to appoint her to the SC if she can not come to accept the nomination.
[2009/03/01 9:22] Symo Kurka: well sonja
[2009/03/01 9:22] Symo Kurka: please read
[2009/03/01 9:22] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/03/01 9:23] Symo Kurka: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=149 .
[2009/03/01 9:23] Symo Kurka: Yes cindy
[2009/03/01 9:23] Sonja Strom: Oh, ok – – well, then I guess she can get in automatically.
[2009/03/01 9:23] Symo Kurka: Yes Sonja
[2009/03/01 9:24] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand.
[2009/03/01 9:24] Sonja Strom: But not with my vote.
[2009/03/01 9:24] Symo Kurka: we can ask her anyway by courtesy to attend one of our next meetings ok??
[2009/03/01 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Attend, yes.
[2009/03/01 9:24] Symo Kurka: Soro
[2009/03/01 9:24] Cindy Ecksol: my question, symo, is whether anyone asked her specifically to be here at this meeting
[2009/03/01 9:24] Soro Dagostino: I think we ought to show that we support the nomination
[2009/03/01 9:24] Symo Kurka: No Cindy alas nobody did
[2009/03/01 9:24] Sonja Strom: For me it depends on if she wants us to vote to support her – if she does not care about that then there is no real reason for her to come to one of our meetings.
[2009/03/01 9:25] Symo Kurka: Of course i suppose we all do except sonja?
[2009/03/01 9:25] Cindy Ecksol: well, I will just point out that it is unreasonable to hold her to Sonja’s standard if no one asked her to attend
[2009/03/01 9:25] Justice Soothsayer: I would have preferred to have a discussion with her first, but I think it’s our fault we didn’t keep track of the timing.
[2009/03/01 9:25] Cindy Ecksol: she may not even know that her nomination is up for approval today
[2009/03/01 9:25] Sonja Strom: Did Aliasi not know that we might want to talk with her before we vote her in?
[2009/03/01 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well it’s a procedural thingy really… the RA ‘forgot’ to confirm her appointment, so, well, there is no turning back the clock.
[2009/03/01 9:25] Symo Kurka: I jst move to propose the following
[2009/03/01 9:26] Symo Kurka: Nomination is obviously ratified but we would love to meet her in RA
[2009/03/01 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that she has only echoed what Justice already said. Sorry.
[2009/03/01 9:26] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand
[2009/03/01 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I’m sorry, Symo, but what purpose would that have? She’s a SC member now, she isn’t answerable to the RA anymore…
[2009/03/01 9:26] Justice Soothsayer is always willing to be echoed by the lovely Gwyn
[2009/03/01 9:26] Pip Torok: thats the best glos upon this imo
[2009/03/01 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2009/03/01 9:27] Symo Kurka: Soro?
[2009/03/01 9:27] Soro Dagostino: Never mind.
[2009/03/01 9:27] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 9:27] Sonja Strom: I do not dislike Aliasi – I just think for us to vote on her nomination it would be best for her to be at the meeting.
[2009/03/01 9:27] Symo Kurka: So i propose TO INVITE her, just to invite her by courtesy
[2009/03/01 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but we aren’t allowed to do “a posteriori” invitations
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: Gwyn COURTESY is not compulsoruy
[2009/03/01 9:28] Sonja Strom: She does not need to come to our meeting or to be voted in by us to become a member of the SC.
[2009/03/01 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, or not explicitly allowed
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: guys
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: we cannot waste our time on this
[2009/03/01 9:28] Soro Dagostino: We have
[2009/03/01 9:28] Justice Soothsayer: indeed
[2009/03/01 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: agreed
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: So i personally invite Aliasi for courtesy
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: to meet us if she can
[2009/03/01 9:29] Justice Soothsayer: Ali is on SC; future nominees should be scheduled for a discussion w/RA before we vote, or we vote ’em down.
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: AND we go on on second point
[2009/03/01 9:29] Pip Torok: (agree)
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: SECOND POINT
[2009/03/01 9:29] Sonja Strom: OK, I agree with that also.
[2009/03/01 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Justice. yes, that would actually make more sense Was that a motion?
[2009/03/01 9:30] Symo Kurka: III. RA RULES OF PROCEDURE (9:20 to 9:30)
Second draft bill from Justice Soothsayer
[2009/03/01 9:30] Justice Soothsayer: revised after input at last meeting
[2009/03/01 9:30] Symo Kurka: Yes justice to you
[2009/03/01 9:30] Soro Dagostino: I looked for it this morning . . . couldn’t find it.
[2009/03/01 9:31] Symo Kurka: No discussion?
[2009/03/01 9:31] Justice Soothsayer loking for link
[2009/03/01 9:32] Justice Soothsayer: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701
[2009/03/01 9:32] Justice Soothsayer: I’ll move adoption.
[2009/03/01 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconded
[2009/03/01 9:33] Symo Kurka: Ok for all?
[2009/03/01 9:33] Cindy Ecksol: discussion?
[2009/03/01 9:33] Jamie Palisades raises hand
[2009/03/01 9:33] Symo Kurka: Jamie?
[2009/03/01 9:33] Jamie Palisades: I note that sometimes RAs have gone well ove or under those 10 and 15 minute limits
[2009/03/01 9:33] Jamie Palisades: it seems harmless
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: but I just wamnted to comment, well, it;s my hope that RA members have a bit of flexibility in regular practice
[2009/03/01 9:34] Symo Kurka: any amendment proposal Jamie?
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: the limits give you a rule of thumb to cut off fdebates
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: Symo –
[2009/03/01 9:34] Justice Soothsayer: The RA can always vote to extend time when needed
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: not needed if it;s understood that the RA can agree to extend debate
[2009/03/01 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quoting Justice: “The RA majority can always extend the time for debate under Rule 2(B) if needed.”
[2009/03/01 9:35] Jamie Palisades: right – what he said
[2009/03/01 9:35] Jamie Palisades: good
[2009/03/01 9:35] Jamie Palisades: thx’
[2009/03/01 9:35] Symo Kurka: Can i comment that if RA members have NOT a bit of flexibility in regular practice they SHOULD NOT be here?
[2009/03/01 9:35] Justice Soothsayer is ready to vote
[2009/03/01 9:35] Symo Kurka: lol
[2009/03/01 9:36] Jamie Palisades: one hopes the electorate has that wisdom
[2009/03/01 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[2009/03/01 9:36] Pip Torok: dont forget rules are ALWAYS used with discretion …
[2009/03/01 9:36] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 9:36] Symo Kurka: any amendment proposed?
[2009/03/01 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent
[2009/03/01 9:37] Symo Kurka: Ok we vote aye for Justice’ new Bill
[2009/03/01 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[2009/03/01 9:37] Symo Kurka: or nay if we do not agree
[2009/03/01 9:37] Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
[2009/03/01 9:37] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/03/01 9:37] Soro Dagostino: aye
[2009/03/01 9:38] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: great
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: unanimous, aye
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: POINT 4
[2009/03/01 9:38] Pip Torok: sonja (did she vote?)
[2009/03/01 9:38] Sonja Strom: aye, sorry IMs
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: sorry sonja???
[2009/03/01 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/03/01 9:39] Symo Kurka: point IV
[2009/03/01 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go Jamie go
[2009/03/01 9:39] Symo Kurka: CHANCELLOR’s monthly report
[2009/03/01 9:39] Symo Kurka: i invite Jamie to speak
[2009/03/01 9:39] Jamie Palisades: Thanks
[2009/03/01 9:39] Jamie Palisades: First, on APPOINTMENTS:
[2009/03/01 9:39] Sonja Strom: I would like to thank everybody who put in so much work on arriving at these RA procedures.
[2009/03/01 9:39] Jamie Palisades waits, no problem, let me know
[2009/03/01 9:40] Sonja Strom: That was all, but I wanted to say thank you for all of this work .
[2009/03/01 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: )
[2009/03/01 9:40] Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/03/01 9:40] Symo Kurka: Ok thank you all let’s go on please, Jamie…
[2009/03/01 9:40] Jamie Palisades: appointments
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: We have the benefit of our usual kind volunteers, thank heaven
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: all such announcements go to the forums
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: but I have not yet announced the reappointment of Brian and Rose as co-PIOs.
[2009/03/01 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: There’s a reason they are (again, thank god) willing to continue to serve as well
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: but
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: I plan to implement a title change and in one case a duties change
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: so this is your notification, and we will post it to the forums as well for comments
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: in that way
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: while the RA need not act to confirm it, it gives you a chance if you think we’re doing something dumb
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades grins – perish the thought
[2009/03/01 9:42] Symo Kurka smiles
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: 1. I plan to change Brians’ title slightly from PIO to CIO
[2009/03/01 9:43] Pip Torok:
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: that is, Chief Information Officer
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: which has a slightly broader meaning in business
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: and seems better to suit his role
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: again two weeks to comment or stop us
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: Rose, again, thank heaven, continues to be willign to serve in her many roles assisting CDS
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: I’ve asked her to take on a new one as well
[2009/03/01 9:44] Symo Kurka thinks it sounds nuance to non english language natives
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: she is increaingly finding assistance to run events
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: then you won’t mind it, Symo
[2009/03/01 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah!
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: “CIO” is meaningful in a US business context – a nice title to have
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: ahem
[2009/03/01 9:44] Symo Kurka: kkkk
[2009/03/01 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is indeed a subtle difference; but Rose’s title first, please…
[2009/03/01 9:44] Symo Kurka: lol
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: Rose is getting help with events
[2009/03/01 9:45] Jamie Palisades: and I have asked her to take a bigger role in new citizen development
[2009/03/01 9:45] Jamie Palisades: which actually relates strongly to events
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: So essentially this is a “development” job
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: I might add
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: it does not include sim expansion
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: for one thing
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: that’s my job
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: for another
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: she owns AA
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: so in MY view – unlike that of some of our friends here – that’s a conflict of interest
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: so Rose could not be involved properly in any CDS decision about AA
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: um, that is, for those of us who believe there is such a thing as a conflict of interest (smile)
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: AA being Al Andalus
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: now
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: that also means that, between Rose and I,
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: we woudl be able to lift from Sudane a burden she’s long found annoying
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: *found
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: which is being our real estate seller, as well as treasurer
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: I belideve you all know that I find it VERY important
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: that we have a fair
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: transparent
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: real estate market
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: so, getting some more hands on deck there will matter
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: … also, as a sheer practical matter
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: Rose and I are involved in most new citizen touches
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: and if we have the land handy, well, that will help
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: also
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: as you know hah hah
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: Justice will recall my promise from last term on this
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I have been too darn slow to get the land software issue resolved
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: so help there, as well, would be a gooooood thing
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: now Gwyn’s focus
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: title
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I don’t know
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I see three options
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: and plan to get feedback on this as well via the forums, and come back to it in two weeks
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: one is Director of Development
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: (a little corporate, for us)
[2009/03/01 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: one is Chief Development Officeer
[2009/03/01 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Minister for Development?
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: (or chief SOMETHING officer)
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: could be
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: at present we do not have ministers, so there’s a parallellism Q
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: but honestly? not too concerned
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: as long as
[2009/03/01 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (true, it was meant as a joke, sorry to interrupt)
[2009/03/01 9:51] Justice Soothsayer: what is latin for “Realtor”?
[2009/03/01 9:51] Soro Dagostino: brb
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: it does not get a goofy embarrassing science fiction name
[2009/03/01 9:51] Sonja Strom: Chief Internal Affairs Officer = CIAO, lol
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: there’s another option, grin
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: designed to make the teeth of political opponents fall out
[2009/03/01 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sonja!!!
[2009/03/01 9:51] Justice Soothsayer: lol Sonja
[2009/03/01 9:51] Sonja Strom:
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: ick sonja sounds ilke the secret police
[2009/03/01 9:51] Sonja Strom: lol
[2009/03/01 9:51] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2009/03/01 9:52] Cindy Ecksol loves sonja’s acronym!!!
[2009/03/01 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too hehe
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: ther better title for us from a sales point of view, of course, would be deputy chancellor for development, smile
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: so
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: we will take comments for two weeks and see
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: done with that topic
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: … LAND
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: You may have noticed that Locus Amoenus is almost fully sold; once again, our residential space is near capacity, except for some tough-to-sell space in Colonia Nova and a few random turnovers each month. As we’ve discussed, practically each new event brings prospects and often new citizens.
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: You will see that I announced and opened the bid process for our open commercial land this weekend as well; we’ll see how the reduced-price plan enacted by the last RA for commercial land works, now that the SL “real estate market” has calmed down a little. I note that a number of estate sims now do deep discounts or in some cases sell new land for free, just to ensure that their monthly tier keeps coming in, So we will see how that market develops.
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: here’s that link
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: for process ->
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2359
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: and for the first three parcels ->
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2360
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: in case you are wondering
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: that’s is Pelanor’s old corner Marktplatz lot
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: in NFS
[2009/03/01 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: and Bruno’s two Corda lots in CN
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: I do not plan to announce on the website plans to offer other parcels in advance
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: because, well, that discourages bids
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: but
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: FYI
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: I expect the lots being re-done by Solomon and Lilith now
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: (in the SE corner of CN city, under Guild auspices)
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: to be added to those, as soon as they are done.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: and we think that will help make that space more attractive as well.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: It continues to be a very important issue to me that CDS offer new or reclaimed land in a fair way, so all interested parties have a chance. I have asked Rose to help with this in two stages — one to develop a broker-like system so that we always have a visible queue for land opportunities, and the other in the final selection and installation of appropriate neutral software for self-help land purchases. See my comments about her proposed job responsibilities.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: I’m done with land issues.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: EVENTS
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: Our first attempt at an inaugural ball was right on the heels of a Neufreistadt sim crash … as the bumper sticker says, “stuff happens.” So we had a fine but informal event, and invited people to come back for the Colonia Nova grand tour.
We enjoyed a successful return of the inter-estate Grand Tour in February. Our Alpine sims hosted a ski event, as the tour’s first stop, and many CDS citizens and visitors enjoyed a new ski run — which we’ll talk about again later in this report. A second Grand Tour event, which also served as our inaugural ball mark 2, was hosted in the space renovated by Solomon Mosely on the old commercial site in Colonia Nova, very nicely decorated (thanks Sol). And thanks always to Rose for her matchless help with event administration.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: The ski event, well, rocked.
[2009/03/01 9:57] Jamie Palisades: We have made some official and unoffical improvements to facilitate it.
[2009/03/01 9:57] Jamie Palisades: I expect to finalize our ski routes for further use in future winter seasons …
[2009/03/01 9:57] Cindy Ecksol: /me cheers for great ski runs
[2009/03/01 9:57] Jamie Palisades: and will post that map as well. Note that snow is “expected” to leave on 15 March
[2009/03/01 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: this is the Alps, not Caledon
[2009/03/01 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: and between now and then, we can have rousing chats about stuff like
[2009/03/01 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: – is the hill above cindy’s AM house a death jump?
[2009/03/01 9:58] Symo Kurka: lol
[2009/03/01 9:58] Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
[2009/03/01 9:58] Cindy Ecksol: I LOVE that jump!!!
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: – should we keep a run over Pip’s amphitheatre land?
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: – are you all appalled by the temporary bridge I put on one AM path?
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: etc
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: should be fun
[2009/03/01 9:59] Pip Torok: id be happy if the theatre itself isn’t touched
[2009/03/01 9:59] Cindy Ecksol loves the bridge too….although it surprised her at first
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades nods
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: but we have a lot of ski fans, so let’s get the public feedback
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: … last item …
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: EVENTS BUDGET AND PROGRAM
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: By way of reminder
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: last term we were extremely conservative
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: spending only 1/4 of our operating monthly surplus AFTER expenses
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: and I told the RA then that I expected to do more this term
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: I do, and let me elaborate.
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: We spend (per the Sept 2008 RA chats) an average of about L$11000/month on event and culture programming
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: is is about a fourth of the funds available AFTER reserving at the level Sudane recommended
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: so I plan to double or triple that
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: but
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: actually I plan to have CDS citizens double or triple it
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: as follows
[2009/03/01 10:02] Jamie Palisades: 1. I will recommend that we appoint a standing Culture and Art panel — a commission, perhaps, but not under the temporary-project rules now used — of at least 3 members, who will allocate event funds for cultural and art activities in CDS.
[2009/03/01 10:02] Jamie Palisades: Let some interested citizens (with appriopriate conflict of interest rules) bring us the stuff they thik suited, let’s see if they can out do Rose and I
[2009/03/01 10:02] Jamie Palisades: which would be great – and I think they can
[2009/03/01 10:03] Jamie Palisades: I will suggest names shortly – but a moment’s thought will tell you that we have a number of creatives here who would do a fine jobn
[2009/03/01 10:03] Jamie Palisades: 2.
[2009/03/01 10:03] Jamie Palisades: I will recommend that EACH sim (note we have four) be given, through a simple consensus panel of landowners in that sim, a budget for LOCAL in-theme events.
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: If CN and LA want more saturnalias, well, Godspeed
[2009/03/01 10:04] Cindy Ecksol claps
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: While both of these methods will be essentially selfgovernance
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: and NOT a big rules to do
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: They still would be subject to administrative supervision (sudane and I still get involve in signoffs like we do today – a check on people paying themselves )
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: We still have a current budget for CDS-wide events
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: but some of the concerts and fun stuff can be “downstreamed”.
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: I might add that a local-control fund also would
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: coincidentally
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn shouts: Ok, I do have a few questions, and I do apologise in advance if there are answers on the forums. Links would be mostly appreciated if there are any answers already.
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: probably solve the biggest single current concern of Al Andalaus residents
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: Done
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wrong key
[2009/03/01 10:06] Jamie Palisades smiles at the excited Senator
[2009/03/01 10:06] Symo Kurka: Now we all know Gwyn has a Third Life
[2009/03/01 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: More like the silly Senator who doesn’t know the difference between Ctrl and Cmd :O
[2009/03/01 10:06] Jamie Palisades: .. command and control is dead, we all know that ..)
[2009/03/01 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2009/03/01 10:06] Symo Kurka: Well it seems that our friend Jamie did not sleep much in the last weeks.
[2009/03/01 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, anyhow, I’ll put myself in the queue for some questions, Symo…
[2009/03/01 10:07] Symo Kurka: Ok please try to be concise with questions, we all will need a few days to get through all that reading in forums
[2009/03/01 10:07] Symo Kurka: And a personal thank to Jamie
[2009/03/01 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so I suppose most of it will be in the forums anyway….
[2009/03/01 10:08] Symo Kurka: Ok Gwyn..questions??
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades: sure – but if there are top-of-the-head questions now, shoot
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades: so to speak
[2009/03/01 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, first: THANKS!
[2009/03/01 10:08] Pip Torok: i have one question jamie … there are citizens (like me) who are members of AA ie have property and go to their meetings … should “we” desist from certain discussions because of conflict of interest?
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades: :/ i do not think so Pip – Rose OWNS it and would be a seller and us a buyer, basically
[2009/03/01 10:08] Symo Kurka: First was Gwyn
[2009/03/01 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Pip can go first )
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades oops – carry on
[2009/03/01 10:09] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand.
[2009/03/01 10:09] Jamie Palisades: (not that it’s a “purchase” technically – but the basic idea is the same. LOTS of people overlap as citizens, though.
[2009/03/01 10:09] Symo Kurka: The line is Gwyn, Pip, Soro
[2009/03/01 10:09] Jamie Palisades: Pip, were you answered?
[2009/03/01 10:09] Pip Torok: yes!
[2009/03/01 10:09] Symo Kurka: kk
[2009/03/01 10:09] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn?
[2009/03/01 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the first one is about clarifying the role of Treasurer and Estate Owner under the new executive. If I understand it, Sudane will focus on treasury; others (Rose, yourself) will mostly manage parcel allocation to citizens etc.
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: that’s the concept
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (note: I do agree this is an awesome concept!)
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: we get a LOT of work from Sudane already
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: the hope is that automation will simply radically
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next, I *totally* agree with MORE spending in events!!
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes G€” I understand that a new land management tool is propsoed for development
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, I’m sure we’ll know more about that, once it’s done
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Event funding G€” by all means, increase the fundiing ))
[2009/03/01 10:11] Jamie Palisades: (software on which I am horridly late, gwyn … was discussed at end of 9th RA)
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m quite intrigued about this “Arts Committee” though
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, that’s fine)
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will be the legal status of that body,
[2009/03/01 10:11] Jamie Palisades: well
[2009/03/01 10:11] Jamie Palisades: as of now
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: Chancellor does it
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. is it an advisory NGO to the Chancellor?
[2009/03/01 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: so power devolves from executive if at all, legally speaking
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: hmm – an NGO seems like overkill
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: I see it as an executive advisory panel
[2009/03/01 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So is it “part” of the executive, like, say, the Janitors?
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: but like any executive activities
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: subject to oversight
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: realistically
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: a way to push more decision making on citizens
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: get some more minds in here
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: a little empowerment
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: like I said, though, same fiscal supervision loop as always
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: just not ALL instigated by Rose and me anymore
[2009/03/01 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s where my question was… will this be an appointed body by the Executive? (mind you, this is a neutral question; the Executive has full power to do that)
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: I expect so, yes
[2009/03/01 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: take a look at the commercial land bid process, BTW
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: another instance of an executive panel
[2009/03/01 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah good point. Yes.
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: but there I am asking factions to nominate people
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: here
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: the art thing
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: we’re looking for artists
[2009/03/01 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Following that…. the same will apply to the “local” event groups, ie. the Chancellor will appoint a group of people on each sim to deal with local events?
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: i do not think so
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: though I have given myself two weeks
[2009/03/01 10:14] Soro Dagostino: zzzzzzzz
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: I think we need to have any land owner eligible to come chat about what — locus ameonus — wants
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: i expect that I will end up going to a bunch of horrid town meetings
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so like “Local Town Halls”
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: With Executive oversight,
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: but our role is to facilitate what makes the locals happy
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: and give them a budget
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: yup
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and referring to the “Arts Committee”?
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: oh – sorry if that was unclear
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: nio
[2009/03/01 10:15] Cindy Ecksol thinks this has interesting implications for future development of CDS government as we grow
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: two budgets
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: three really
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy’s thinking hehe
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: 1. existing – managed by executive/PIO people
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: 2. arts council
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: 3. local councils
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, all right
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: thus the word “triple”
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Got it! I’m slow, I know…
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: honestly
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: I am trying to suggest somethimg simple, that does not require us to grapple with big-picture local-government puzzles
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I wasn’t understanding the relation hehe G€” so overall funding will triple *because* there will be two new event funding sinks
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: not trying to mess with RA structure etcetcetc
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: yes
[2009/03/01 10:17] Jamie Palisades: if you guys want local GOVERNMENTS, not just local event kitties, well, that’s for someone else’s drafting pen, for now
[2009/03/01 10:17] Symo Kurka thinks “structure”???
[2009/03/01 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I won’t ask more questions ty so much! I find this a very intriguing idea actually, and one that might solve, in the future, the issue about the AA merger
[2009/03/01 10:17] Jamie Palisades: kitty = colloquial for “small pot of money”
[2009/03/01 10:17] Jamie Palisades: there was a third questioner?
[2009/03/01 10:17] Symo Kurka: Ok there was Soro too??
[2009/03/01 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not from me, Soro’s next
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: Actually a comment on conflicts.
[2009/03/01 10:18] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: If I remember.
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: The requirement should be disclosure.
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: Not that they have to stop speaking.
[2009/03/01 10:19] Jamie Palisades nods – Soro I think my concern is that we not have a panel of two people who vote to give themselves all the money
[2009/03/01 10:19] Soro Dagostino: So long as its on the agenda item.
[2009/03/01 10:19] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:20] Jamie Palisades: so if there are votes – as seems inevitable in the Arts Council case – I’d expect some abstensions by people who have a proposal on the table
[2009/03/01 10:20] Soro Dagostino: Agreed
[2009/03/01 10:20] Symo Kurka: Other questions?
[2009/03/01 10:21] Jamie Palisades: thanks very much then
[2009/03/01 10:21] Symo Kurka: /
[2009/03/01 10:21] Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, did you ge tthe word that we were looking for a report on AA?
[2009/03/01 10:21] Jamie Palisades: Justice, shall I give you a short answer now?
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: sure
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: Or better in writing? Symo?
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: I the LRA permits
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: *If the LRA permits
[2009/03/01 10:22] Symo Kurka: Hum
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: But the short question was whether you knew we wanted a report, not what is your report.
[2009/03/01 10:22] Symo Kurka: i think on this complex matter we cannot fix time terms
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: ah
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: yes
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: The LRA informed me
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: so what’s your wish? also – hm – the date on that was not today
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: but still
[2009/03/01 10:23] Justice Soothsayer: Any likely time frame from your perspective?
[2009/03/01 10:23] Justice Soothsayer: For the report, that is.
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: want the four sentence version now, with more detail by the orgin deadline?
[2009/03/01 10:23] Justice Soothsayer: aye
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: which I thought was 15 march, but not looking at the msg
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: right then
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: we have five issues as I see it with AA
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: 1. Do we want to do it?
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: (RA will get to vote – and decide who else gets a say)
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: 2. Is it fiscally sound?
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: (apparently yes, very, and I need to give you numbers to prove that, which are proving a confidentiality issue, but working on it.)
[2009/03/01 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: 3. Can they safely come to us without our “eating” their separate cultural life?
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (which is important to them)
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (thus the local programs idea )
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: 4. Can they safely come to us without our razing all their gorgeous community structures?
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (I suspect so – our theme laws actually make it damn hard)
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (but if they require any other assurance, that will be a topic for RA and law)
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: and finally
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: 5.
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: Do they want to come to us?
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: (we want to get the full sims, not empty ones)
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: (apparently so, but it will depend on 1-4).
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: Now
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: There are other expansion projects posibilities
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: but you asked about AA done
[2009/03/01 10:26] Symo Kurka thinks very clear sumup
[2009/03/01 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, thank you for that!
[2009/03/01 10:27] Jamie Palisades: oo – and I have a RL issue, so may have to leave shortly
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: yes we all are late her
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: +so can i propose
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: we postpone some items
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: cindy/gwyn commission and sonja’s bill
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: and we have a quick look at texture contest?
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol raises habd
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: hdn
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: Cindy
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: hand…that is
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: Symo, this report has already been postponed
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: and there are some things that we need to get on with
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: do I have th efloor?
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: yes
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: ok
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: Two meetings ago, Gwyn and I volunteered to look into what was already in the Code regarding GMP with an eye towards opening a discussion of whether/what additional legislation might be needed to properly maintain and utilize the GMP.
[2009/03/01 10:28] Soro Dagostino: Point of Information?
[2009/03/01 10:29] Cindy Ecksol: yes soro?
[2009/03/01 10:29] Soro Dagostino: Has the report been published?
[2009/03/01 10:29] Cindy Ecksol: o report
[2009/03/01 10:29] Cindy Ecksol: this is it….so listen up
[2009/03/01 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/03/01 10:29] Jamie Palisades: Apologies, I have to excuse myself, … but I understood from Cindy that no RA action on her almost-started commission is to be taken today, so I guess I can wish them good luck and attend the future meeting when announced.
[2009/03/01 10:29] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:29] Jamie Palisades bows graciously
[2009/03/01 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye, jamie, and thank you again
[2009/03/01 10:30] Jamie Palisades: Thank you all!

10:30Symo Kurka: Thank you Jamie and bye
10:30Cindy Ecksol: bye jamie…
10:30Cindy Ecksol: ok….continuing….
10:30Cindy Ecksol: To date, we’ve had two long discussions that were focused not on coming up with legislation per se (since that would really need public discussion) but on trying to identify what exactly needs to be discussed and how to start a debate that will lead the community in productive directions.
10:30Cindy Ecksol: To make a long story short, we found relevant statements the Code in 8-2 and 8-4:
10:30Cindy Ecksol: 8-2 assumes GMP exists and is current and directs RA to consider it when approving new sims
10:30Cindy Ecksol: 8-4 assumes GMP exists, then directs Chancellor to take GMP into account when assessing proposals for private development.
10:31Cindy Ecksol: Both 8-2 and 8-4 emphasize that the role of the Guild is advisory and non-governmental
10:31Cindy Ecksol: Both 8-2 and 8-4 order RA and/or Chancellor to work with New Guild to accomplish government missions (seems required, not optional, although they are not “bound” by GMP)
10:31Cindy Ecksol: This raises what we think is the central issue: No one in RA or Executive has responsibility for developing/maintaining GMP.
10:31Cindy Ecksol: So if New Guild does not volunteer to create and maintain it on a regular basis, then GMP soon becomes outdated and useless. If Guild chooses not to work on GMP, neither RA nor Executive has any way to ensure completion of that work. Yet Code requires both RA and Executive to consult GMP regarding addition of new sims. And there are no other clear options in the Code regarding how the GMP might be completed other than by “directing” the New Guild to do so..and they are really an independent NGO that the government has no right to “direct” to do anything at all.
10:32Cindy Ecksol: You can all appreciate the issues I’m sure….
10:32Cindy Ecksol: That’s the essence. Of course there’s much more behind it, and we think it would be best if we opened the discussion of this central issue up to the community at this point. So our recommendations:
10:32Cindy Ecksol: 1. Open public discussion on the role of GMP in forums
10:32Cindy Ecksol: a. Who in government should have prime responsibility for maintaining GMP?
10:33Cindy Ecksol: b. How should the maintenance process work? (who proposes, who approves, how often, etc.)
10:33Cindy Ecksol: c. What role do we want the GMP to play in acquisition/development of new sims? Binding? Non-binding? “Advisory?”
10:33Cindy Ecksol: d. How should the role of GMP be implemented? New code required? Balance of power?
10:33Cindy Ecksol: 2. Open public discussion on role of the New Guild. If New Guild is truly an NGO, how do we avoid putting it in a position where it seems to be required to respond to mandatory requests from RA or Chancellor for completion of particular tasks? Or should some functions that now tacitly reside in New Guild really be government functions? Is so, which functions? And where in government should they reside?
10:33Cindy Ecksol: Our intent is to open and foster a couple of threads on the forum that will allow everyone who is interested to get involved. We’re looking forward to hearing what comes up, and in particular we’ll be interested to see if the discussion generates a basis for a bill to be proposed and if so what that bill will look like.
10:34Cindy Ecksol: That’s where we’re at…all done except that we will certainly entertain questions
10:34Symo Kurka:
10:34Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, here or on the forums
10:34Symo Kurka: Great job girls
10:35Symo Kurka: Just one question. Who develops a single new sim if guild refuses to do it?
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, it’s a tricky subject really.
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public sim, or private sim, Symo?
10:35Symo Kurka: Both cases
10:35Cindy Ecksol: Symo, that is beyond the scope of our current discussion
10:35Symo Kurka: Lol
10:35Symo Kurka: it was analogy
10:35Symo Kurka: a provocatory question
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe actually CIndy’s right. But the answer is simple really…
10:35Cindy Ecksol: right now we’re just looking at the question of who has responsibility for the GMP IN GOVERNMANET
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public: the Chancellor decides
10:35Symo Kurka: anyway we stop here
10:36Pip Torok: true and dont forget the ngo IS an open organisation
10:36Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private: the person who owns the sim decides
10:36Symo Kurka: Him
10:36Symo Kurka: –*hum
10:36Symo Kurka: we better stop here
10:36Cindy Ecksol:
10:36Cindy Ecksol: yep!
10:36Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha well..
10:36Symo Kurka: cann i show you a very NICE thing?
10:37Cindy Ecksol wonders if we cn allocate some funds to fix the roof so the snow doesn’t get in here
10:37Gwyneth Llewelyn laughs at Cindy
10:37Symo Kurka: can you see it?
10:37Pip Torok: 9Ive taught in classes with snowy floors!)
10:38Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s loading, Symo…
10:38Symo Kurka: Dear reps dear citizens
10:38Symo Kurka: Yet another dream comes nearer today.
10:38Symo Kurka: Yet another dream comes in world thanks to two citizens’ skills.
10:39Symo Kurka: Moon and Cindy, who worked for texture contest
10:39Symo Kurka: We got here some VERY elegant textures
10:39Symo Kurka: the cube is tiles and the screen is walls
10:39Symo Kurka: of the early roman empire
10:40Symo Kurka: and I’m proud to announce that these textures will change the look and feel of Colonia Nova
10:40Symo Kurka: and will bring back to our virtual world
10:40Symo Kurka: the look and feel of a very elegant town
10:40Symo Kurka: of the early roman empire
10:40Symo Kurka: I’m done
10:40Cindy Ecksol never thought those tiles she put up in her kitchen would be “Roman” some day
10:41Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cindy
10:41Gwyneth Llewelyn: love the textures, Symo!
10:41Symo Kurka: If sonja agrees i would prefer to psotpone the referendum bill to next RA
10:41Symo Kurka: Sonja?
10:41Sonja Strom: OK, that is fine.
10:41Symo Kurka: Than k you dear
10:41Symo Kurka: i move to adjourn
10:41Cindy Ecksol: second
10:41Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on adjourning….
10:42Justice Soothsayer: OK
10:42Symo Kurka: whoa grees say aye
10:42Rose Springvale: wati
10:42Soro Dagostino: Aye
10:42Rose Springvale: grrrr
10:42Sonja Strom: aye
10:42Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose
10:42Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
10:42Pip Torok: aye
10:42Justice Soothsayer: gotta move fast, Rose
10:42Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
10:42Cindy Ecksol: I take my “aye” back….
10:42Rose Springvale: i believe there is an agenda point that was not called!
10:42Symo Kurka: lol we are adjourned Rose but you can say off the records
10:42Rose Springvale: nope.
10:42Symo Kurka: ??
10:42Rose Springvale: i’ll just let you all dig through forums.
10:42Sonja Strom: oh, Rose, would you like to say something?
10:42Rose Springvale: hmph
10:43Cindy Ecksol: symo hasn’t called fo rthe vote anyway — gwyn jumped the gun and we all followed….
10:43Rose Springvale: nm
10:43Rose Springvale: i’ll just be quiet
10:43Rose Springvale: i’ve got things to do too
10:43Soro Dagostino: Hah!
10:43Gwyneth Llewelyn: “a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:50 to 10:00)” ?
10:43Sonja Strom: I’m sorry if we forgot something.
10:44Cindy Ecksol: Symo?
10:44Symo Kurka: Ok i listen to Rose
10:44Cindy Ecksol: are you calling for a vote on the open motion or shall we hear rose first?
10:44Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with listening to ROse too.
10:44Rose Springvale: no, sorry, i witdraw my remarks
10:44Symo Kurka: we hear Rose
10:44Symo Kurka: Rose please
10:45Rose Springvale: really, not important.
10:45Symo Kurka: I’m sorry, we adjourn then
10:46Gwyneth Llewelyn:
The meeting closed at 10:46 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting: March 15, 2009

Agenda

The CDS Representative Assembly will meet on 1st March 2009 at 9:00 am SLT (US Pacific Daylight Time) at the Praetorium in Colonia Nova. The meeting is expected to last up to maximum 1 hour. Please see the following link regarding applicable procedural rules, which constrain some of our agenda and speaking time-limit practices: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701

I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:10)
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes (to be submitted to LRA before next thursday, 10.00 PM SLT)
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: Sunday 29th March, 9:00 AM SLT

ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA

I. DRAFT REFERENDUM BILL (9:00 to 9:10)
Open discussion

II. OTHER ITEMS
a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:10 to 9:30)
b. Adjournment (9:30)

Transcript

[9:26] Symo Kurka: Among multiple crashes we try to start
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so sorry, I crshed as well—
[9:26] Symo Kurka: I have ni changes to this agenda
[9:26] Symo Kurka: *no
[9:27] Symo Kurka: As i did not receive any proposal
[9:27] Delia Lake: /i crashed also. hi everyone
[9:27] Arria Perreault: nothing related to GMP?
[9:27] Arria Perreault: or to expansion?
[9:27] Symo Kurka: I therefore start with asking to Arria to limit herself to the second part (open citizen’s proposals and discussion)
[9:28] Arria Perreault: thank you so much10m)
[9:30] Sonja Strom: Hi Kedwyn!
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Kedwyn!
[9:31] Cindy Ecksol: sorry! crashed…
[9:31] Kedwyn Parmelee: me too
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack SL is a *mess* today!!
[9:31] Justice Soothsayer: every time I fully rezz out of the cloud, I crash
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[9:32] Symo Kurka: Delia Solomon please indicate consent
[9:32] Delia Lake: the number of crashes doesn’t bode well for sl today..
[9:32] Symo Kurka: So we were at poin one
[9:32] Symo Kurka: *point one
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, Delia
[9:33] Symo Kurka: bill for referendum, sonja do you want to speak?
[9:33] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Ever since I first came to the CDS in February of 2007 I have thought it would be a good idea for the citizens to have an ability to vote on major decisions about the direction the community will take.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: The other side of that same way of looking at things is,
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I have thought it would be good for the RA to have a good way to poll the citizens about their wishes on large matters.
[9:36] Sonja Strom: Symo, did you want to speak?
[9:36] Sonja Strom: You are standing.
[9:36] Symo Kurka: Well i just add as i sais sometimes on forums i do agree and share the idea
[9:36] Symo Kurka: oh n o lol
[9:36] Sonja Strom: ok
[9:36] Sonja Strom:
[9:37] Symo Kurka: have you got a Bill proposal Sonja?
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Yes, I am speaking about a bill I would like to propose.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Is this not what is on the agenda?
[9:38] Symo Kurka: yes sure go on
[9:38] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[9:38] Sonja Strom: I actually was surprised to find there was not something in place to do this,
[9:38] Sonja Strom: since the CDS is proud to describe itself as a self-governing, democratic community.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: I think it is very important that the CDS government do everything it can to include the citizens in decision-making, so everybody’s opinion can be heard and taken into consideration.
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol grumbles and wonders how she could just disappear from SL like that!
[9:40] Sonja Strom: wb Cindy
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (same here, Cindy )
[9:40] Kedwyn Parmelee: grrrrr
[9:40] Sonja Strom wonders that too…
[9:40] Symo Kurka: well you see in european countries referenda are very common, but not so in Us i suppose
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Please, I am not finished,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: The factions the citizens vote on do all have platforms stating their views and intentions,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: and the citizens rank their preference among these when voting.
[9:41] Sonja Strom: But,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: often the platforms do not speak directly to one decision in particular,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: but are generalistic in nature.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: There are also issues upon which the platforms of all parties agree,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: leaving no alternative choice at all to the citizens when they are voting for factions.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: The CDS Forum does have a poll feature,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: which can be helpful and informative,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: but not all of the CDS citizens read the forum discussions,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: or participate there.
[9:44] Sonja Strom: In addition, there are also non-citizens and former citizens who have the same access to the Forum as the current citizens do.
[9:44] Sonja Strom: During the term I was last in the RA,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: I put a lot of work into allowing the community to have Referendum voting.
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Recently I described this in the Forum here:
[9:45] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667&start=15#p13012
[9:45] Sonja Strom: At that time, it seemed to me such a bill was actually unneccessary,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: because I thought the RA could always choose among itself to direct such a question to the ballot for the citizens to vote on.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: But in talking with everybody,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: it became clear there would need to be some structure in place
[9:46] Sonja Strom: in order for it to really work.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: If there were a structure, it would need to be defined in the laws of the CDS.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: The law I first came up with would have been very simple,
[9:47] Sonja Strom: trying to keep it as simple as possible.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: All it would do was say the RA could direct a Referendum question to the citizens.
[9:48] Sonja Strom: That was seen as too simple by a lot of people,
[9:48] Sonja Strom: and I included input from all 4 factions at that time.
[9:48] Sonja Strom: We arrived at this wording, which we voted on:
[9:48] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. There shall not be more than one referendum per RA term. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[9:49] Sonja Strom: Then this bill received only the support of the DPU,
[9:49] Sonja Strom: and it failed to come into law.
[9:49] Sonja Strom: I would like to continue work on this issue,
[9:50] Sonja Strom: and ask for your understanding and assistance in an effort to create a Referendum system in the CDS.
[9:50] Sonja Strom: Personally, I would like to start by changing the wording of the bill I introduced previously, a year ago,
[9:50] Sonja Strom: by removing the sentance that says “There shall not be more than one referendum per RA term,” as to me this seems like an unneccessary limitation.
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[9:51] Symo Kurka: Good
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Sonja!
[9:51] Symo Kurka: Anybody proposes any amandment/ different wording to Sonja’s proposal?
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* If I remember correctly,
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the reason we voted against it,
[9:52] Pip Torok: one point: I suggest there be some limit to the number of referenda … otherwise certain terns will be swamped by Refs
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was because we wished to have the whole electoral processes finished first
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we didn’t even start… so…
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[9:52] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:52] Pip Torok: i propose change from “one” to “two” to sonja’s original wording
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that objection would be dropped now
[9:53] Sonja Strom:
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with a ‘limit’, even if it’s not ‘a limit of one’
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Pip’s idea might be what we choose.
[9:53] Pip Torok: it ewould concentrate peoples minds …
[9:53] Sonja Strom: I would like to say one thing about that though
[9:54] Sonja Strom: With this bill, the only way a Referendum question would get on the ballot is if the RA voted to put it there.
[9:54] Sonja Strom: So if there were a lot of Referendum questions on one ballot, it would be because the RA said it wanted them to be there.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ‘one’ Referendum doesn’t mean ‘one question’
[9:55] Sonja Strom: Gwyn, right –
[9:55] Symo Kurka: So do we wish to proceed to voting??
[9:55] Pip Torok: on what motion?
[9:55] Sonja Strom: that is a point we might want to make really clear in the wording of the bill.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja’s amended by Pip’s suggestion to ‘two’ referenda per term?
[9:56] Sonja Strom: My intention was always to only have any Referendum questions be on the ballot for the next general election.
[9:56] Symo Kurka: Ok then i propose Gwyn and Sonja come back to next RA with a shared wording
[9:56] Pip Torok: im happy to proceed on G’s basis
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me,
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Symo, let’s just talk about this here.
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip’s suggestion
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:56] Sonja Strom: I don’t think there is a major issue to reach a compromise on.
[9:57] Sonja Strom: I just want the RA to talk about it.
[9:57] Pip Torok: well imo recourse to Referenda is a good idea
[9:57] Symo Kurka: Aaaah.. is there a vote proposal? What is your final Bill wording Sonja ?
[9:57] Pip Torok: do we agree?
[9:58] Sonja Strom: I can restate how I think the bill should read,
[9:58] Sonja Strom: and we can start with that.
[9:58] Symo Kurka: OK
[9:58] Symo Kurka: now or next RA?
[9:58] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[9:58] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[9:58] Sonja Strom: Why the next RA?
[9:58] Symo Kurka: Ok
[9:58] Sonja Strom: We are discussing this issue, or?
[9:58] Symo Kurka: did’nt understand
[9:59] Sonja Strom: OK, I have stated what bill I think we could vote on.
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so… is Pip’s proposal to change “one” to “two” still on the floor?
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Does anyone want to make an amendment to this statement?
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Pip, would you like to propose that?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: As wording I mean.
[10:00] Pip Torok: yes i propose that the sentence of twicwe per term be incorportated
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with Sonja’s proposed wording,
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how would that fit?
[10:00] Pip Torok: yes
[10:00] Symo Kurka: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referendum question per term on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ahhhh wait
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that’s two questions per referendum, but one referendum per term?
[10:01] Pip Torok: small drafting change … question to questions
[10:01] Symo Kurka: No two ref
[10:01] Symo Kurka: Lol
[10:01] Pip Torok: two refs i meant ..
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “may place a maximum of two referendum question per term on the next previously scheduled ballot ” … since usually there is just one ballot per term…
[10:02] Symo Kurka: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referendum per term on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:02] Pip Torok: agree with g
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Pip, would you state how you would like the bill to read?
[10:03] Symo Kurka: Yes Pip sorry, i was just tryin to help
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* I just want that it isn’t ambigious, God knows how many ambiguous laws we already have…
[10:03] Pip Torok: yes At its discretion, the Representative Assembly
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: ?
[10:04] Pip Torok: may place a maximum of two Referenda per term on the next previously
[10:04] Pip Torok: schduled ballot with a simple majority vote.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol thinks we don’t need both “At its discretion” and “with a simple majority vote.” The latter will suffice
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is this what you mean, Pip: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referenda per term, with an unlimited number of questions each, with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:05] Sonja Strom agrees with Cindy
[10:05] Pip Torok: The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding,
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agees with Cindy too. It’s redundant really, the RA is sovereign
[10:05] Symo Kurka: ….live cooperative writing ..
[10:05] Pip Torok: but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referenda per term, with an unlimited number of questions each. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:06] Symo Kurka: Thanks Gwyn sounds perfect
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn, and Cindy.
[10:06] Symo Kurka: Shall we move to vote?
[10:06] Symo Kurka: Approval of the Rewferendum bill as rewritten in last version
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s just that “at the next ballot” implies during the term elections, and doing two different referenda *at the same time* is confusing, if you can do multiple questions anyway
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[10:07] Sonja Strom: Good point Gwyn!
[10:07] Pip Torok: agree
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d actually limit the number of questions
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. five at most or so
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: yes, a referendum is generally ONE question
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well depends, Cindy
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: iRL I’ve often voted on two- and three-question referenda.
[10:07] Kedwyn Parmelee: why did you leave out the phrase about “simple majority” vote needed?
[10:08] Sonja Strom: In Switzerland sometimes there are more referendum questions on a ballot than all of the others.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kedwyn, all decisions by the RA, by default, are by simple majority.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not only in Switzerland, Sonja
[10:08] Kedwyn Parmelee: ah ok redundant
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes Kedwyn!)
[10:09] Symo Kurka: Gwyn please can we vote on your text?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s see a scenario for multiple questions: e.g. we wish a new sim. The questions could be: 1) Do you want a new sim? 2) Should it be named ‘Eureka’? 3) Should it be Greek-themed? 4) Should it be annexed to Locus Amoenus?
[10:09] Sonja Strom: When we are talking about two referendum questions,
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so multiple questions for the same theme do make sense.
[10:10] Sonja Strom: do we mean allowing for a separate vote outside of the next election,
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Sonja, thus my removal of ‘the enxt ballot’)
[10:10] Sonja Strom: or is it allowing not more than two questions for each election.
[10:10] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The way Pip wrote it it could be either;
[10:10] Sonja Strom: I agree.
[10:11] Sonja Strom: It is difficult to make simple and clear.
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggested making it clear: two referenda (and thus not tied to the term elections) with multiple questions
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it is
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually…
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to suggest a slightly different wording!
[10:11] Sonja Strom: OK
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry to annoy you)
[10:11] Pip Torok: (lol)
[10:11] Sonja Strom: lol
[10:12] Sonja Strom: I just want the citizens to be able to vote on major issues effecting their community –
[10:12] Sonja Strom: to have a voice.
[10:12] Sonja Strom: How that is accomplished in exact wording is not something I am concerned about.
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, on a specific theme or subject, with up to five questions, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here’s the reason:
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – for technical reasons,
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: ah, sonja! Be careful what you put in writing in front of the RA — you may GET it!!!
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon’s system already provides for referendum voting
[10:13] Sonja Strom: LOL
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: during the regular elections.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Cindy)
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and – the questions should be limited to a theme,
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but not a single question
[10:13] Sonja Strom thinks about how she may have started a whole new bunch of conversations….
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it should also say: “that can be unambigously answered with ‘aye’ or ‘nay’”
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Attempt #3….
[10:14] Pip Torok: agree
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Gwyn, I think by its nature a Referendum question would be a Yes/No question.
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol now understands why Symo included only this one item on today’s agenda!!
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, on a specific theme or subject, with up to five questions, that can be unambigously answered with ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, possibly, but… better safe than sorry!
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Symo is wise.
[10:15] Symo Kurka: ?
[10:15] Sonja Strom thinks about how Cindy should have seen the discussions about this issue the last term she was in the RA too…
[10:15] Symo Kurka: me?
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for just having one discussion)
[10:16] Symo Kurka: Are we finished with wording?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn withdraws her previous suggestions and just places a motion to vote on the wording as under ‘attempt #3’
[10:16] Sonja Strom: Sorry Gwyn, but that wording seems unnecessarily complex to me.
[10:16] Symo Kurka: Lol
[10:16] Sonja Strom: lol
[10:16] Kedwyn Parmelee: so back to only one referendum now?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But hopefully unambiguous, Sonja
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: kedwyn — for technical reasons really — the voting machine can already deal with a referendum per term during the regular RAelections
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we don’t know if we can change it to do multiple referenda per term.
[10:17] Sonja Strom: For one thing, to me a Referendum Question is one question —
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, I know… this is subverting law to code
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes .. but election-times are special cases, no?
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, yes, but not for me
[10:17] Kedwyn Parmelee: well multiple questions probably covers issues anyway
[10:17] Sonja Strom: there could be multiple questions on one topic.
[10:18] Symo Kurka: SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU
[10:18] Symo Kurka raises hand
[10:18] Sonja Strom: ok Symo
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you wish, Sonja, you could place the explanation on a preamble, and make a simpler law, so long as everybody knows how to interpret it.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry SymO!!
[10:18] Symo Kurka: I have to leave in five minutes and i’ll ask Cindy to follow as deputy LRA
[10:18] Symo Kurka: but first i have to make a short announcment
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I am resigning from Simplicity Party and RA: next 29th March I will perform for the last time in RA.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I announce this with wide anticipation to allow everybody here to organize in due time a soft transition.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I made this choice for personal reasons so please do not ask why.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I’ll be here the 29th to answer operational questions (if any) from new LRA and to cheer you all.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: Ok
[10:19] Symo Kurka: done
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum Act – Preamble: A Referendum Question can be seen as a set of up to five questions, to be unambiguously answered ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, and posed to all citizens. aww
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:20] Symo Kurka: Now Cindy please follow this Honourable #5
[10:24] Sonja Strom: I think that wording is brilliant.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn!
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: *whew*
[10:24] Pip Torok: and me!
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t… I would probably tweak it even further…
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:24] Sonja Strom: We can do that…
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn, what would you like to change?
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh “Each Referendum Question” instead of just “Each Referendum”, so to capture Sonja’s concept that we’re talking about “a Referendum Question” even if it has several questions
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I guess I’m just fighting with words really
[10:26] Sonja Strom: I agree with that.
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: ok.
[10:26] Sonja Strom: I think it is good for it to be clear.
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is better English: ” which shall be not legally binding” or “which shall not be legally binding”
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
[10:26] Pip Torok: the second imo
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pip
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol nods
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so I’d add that change too.
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #6…
[10:27] Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn, can you please restate your proposal with the two changes?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum Act – Preamble: A Referendum Question can be seen as a set of up to five questions, to be unambiguously answered ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, and posed to all citizens. Each Referendum Question addresses a specific topic, subject, or theme, and is advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens. Thus the RA determines: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot, which shall not be legally binding.”
[10:27] Cindy Ecksol: thank you. do we have a second?
[10:27] Sonja Strom: Second
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[10:28] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn!
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: any further discussion on the merits?
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her mouth*
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: no, gwyn, no need to cover your mouth
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: if you have something to say (pro or con) please do
[10:28] Sonja Strom: *g*
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh … actually, no, I think I’m *finally* happy
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: or forever hold your peace
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I’ll hold my peace
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: ok, I move to close the discussion
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconded…
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of closing discussion?
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye.
[10:29] Pip Torok: aye
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:29] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: discussion is closed.
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: I call for a vote on the proposal. Gwyn’s #6
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[10:30] Pip Torok: aye
[10:30] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: motion carries.
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: congratulatons sonja!
[10:30] Sonja Strom:
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very good congrats Sonja
[10:30] Pip Torok: add my congrats too!
[10:30] Sonja Strom raises her arms in victory!!
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: all right, next on the agenda…
[10:31] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!!
[10:31] Cindy Ecksol: open time for proposals
[10:31] Sonja Strom: And especially to Gwyneth for helping so much with the wording.
[10:31] Delia Lake: one more victory for virtual democracy
[10:31] Sonja Strom:
[10:31] Cindy Ecksol: symo idd not leave me a list of who wished to speak
[10:31] Cindy Ecksol: is there anyone?
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mind you, since this bill doesn’t really change any powers of the RA, but is more like a self-regulation thing (e.g. “ask your citizens what they wish”) it doesn’t require a Constitutional Change, but I’m sure the SC will review that
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: raises hand
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: ok, solomon, please
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor
[10:32] Solomon Mosely: the symo thing seemed to pop up and disapear quickly there, what does this mean exactly? do you take over as lra after the 29th?
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: ummm….no, not as far as I know….
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: I am just the “assistant LRA” to fill in when Symo is not available
[10:33] Pip Torok: its been sprung on us all, sol
[10:33] Solomon Mosely: then i think that should be dealt with now, so we can debate at length over the next couople weeks
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: if Symo resigns, Simplicity will have to decide how to deal with it.
[10:33] Solomon Mosely: is there legistation for this?
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: but I must have been out of SL if he said anything about the 29th, so you’ll have to fill me in…
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: what did I miss?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly: probably nominating someone else for Symo’s vacant seat.
[10:34] Solomon Mosely: i thought he did
[10:34] Solomon Mosely: i thought he said that was his last day as ra, didnt he?
[10:34] Solomon Mosely: lra*
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: Solomon, there are procedures for filling an empty seat. we will follow them.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Symo will be unavailable until the 29th but he’ll be back to help out the new LRA if there are some pending issues)
[10:35] Pip Torok: does anyone know whether S will be out of SL altogether?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, Sol, I took it as a resignation from LRA, RA, and SP.
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: all right, that’s a matter for Simplicity to deal with….so we will read the transcript, have a meeting, and decide who will fill Symo’s seat
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: and also who will be LRA in Symo’s absence
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh you unless the RA votes otherwise.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: Right
[10:36] Solomon Mosely: right, but this just isnt dealt with an empty ra seat, is it?
[10:36] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes, Sol, now it’s a bit easier to deal with.
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a SP seat left vacant, so the SP will replace it — or not.
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, we’ll have partial elections
[10:36] Cindy Ecksol: technically the person with the second highest vote total in Simplicity would be LRA.
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy
[10:37] Solomon Mosely: right, would it just fall to the next sp member to recieve the highest votes in the last election?
[10:37] Solomon Mosely: lol, k
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol: but of course Simplicity could change who fills those seats….
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sol, exactly
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol: I did not stand in the election so technically I got ZERO votes…
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol: but if the second-highest vote-getter says “no” to LRA, that would leave me
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: or whomever Simplicity appoints to the empty seat, right Gwyn?
[10:38] Sonja Strom: That is my understanding, yes.
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: but there ARE procedures, so we will deal with it appropriatelly outside of RA.
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: Thank you solomon
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2282 (so technically Soro would be the next LRA)
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: anyone else who wishes to speak?
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: Arria?
[10:39] Pip Torok: only on a non-RA matter …
[10:39] Cindy Ecksol: ok, pip, you have the floor
[10:40] Pip Torok: right … i had a birthday paty yesterday and have decided to continue it tonight at Arpar del Pip … all present are invited …
[10:40] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:40] Sonja Strom:
[10:40] Cindy Ecksol: thank you pip.
[10:40] Arria Perreault: I am ready
[10:40] Cindy Ecksol: arria?
[10:40] Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor
[10:40] Pip Torok: pluas symo if hes listening!
[10:40] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:40] Sonja Strom wishes Pip a happy birthday, on behalf of the Representative Assembly and the CDS!
[10:40] Pip Torok: thank you!
[10:41] Arria Perreault: I was thinking that the GMP was a priority of this term
[10:41] Cindy Ecksol: ok, folks, arria has th efloor
[10:41] Arria Perreault: but I did not hear from any workgroup, proposals and other ways to give a constructive input
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: sorry arria….I think we lost the first part of that before the “but”
[10:42] Sonja Strom: [10:41] Arria Perreault: I was thinking that the GMP was a priority of this term
[10:42] Arria Perreault: I wI would like to know where we are, who is currently working on the GMP ?
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok
[10:42] Moon Adamant: i can answer that
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, at the last RA meeting I reported on behalf of Gwyn an dI
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: (just a sec moon)
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol: and we opened a discussion on the GMP process out on the forums
[10:43] Arria Perreault: and I would like to know how I can be involved in this precess and if I have a chance to integrate my current and pending proposal for the Monastery
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol: I have been disappointed that so few people have engaged in that discussion. would like to have much more input before constructing a bill.
[10:43] Arria Perreault: I did
[10:43] Arria Perreault: and Timo did
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: yes, you and Timo did — but I would like MORE involvement
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: much broader.
[10:44] Arria Perreault: and I was interested to participate to the GMP process, I think
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: now…the development of GMP is a WHOLE OTHER PROCESS
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: i.e. the CONTENT of the GMP — Gwyn and I did not mean our discussion to be about that.
[10:44] Sonja Strom: I’ve been thinking about it – the apparent complexity of it overwhelms me a little bit.
[10:44] Arria Perreault: at least the interested people could be invited to a meeting or to a workgroup
[10:45] Moon Adamant raiases her hand
[10:45] Cindy Ecksol: but I think Moon can speak for the New Guild. Moon can you fill us in on what’s going on with the GMP content?
[10:45] Sonja Strom: I haven’t wanted to say much until I felt I understood it better.
[10:45] Moon Adamant: yes,thanks
[10:45] Moon Adamant: first of all, and in reply to you Cindy
[10:45] Moon Adamant: i do agree, there are two dimensions about the GMp plan
[10:46] Moon Adamant: one is the technical dimension – what the GMP is – and the other is the political dimension – the validity and enforcement of the GMP
[10:46] Cindy Ecksol nods in agreement
[10:46] Moon Adamant: as for the technical dimension, i am currently sketching the basis for public discussion
[10:46] Moon Adamant: these basis comprise: cluster themes, orography, densities, and transportation
[10:47] Moon Adamant: as well as a compilation of CDS sim data to this point
[10:47] Moon Adamant: they will be ready for publication soon, i hope
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: excellent!
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: and I assume that you have (or will have) some kind of workgroup on this Moon?
[10:47] Moon Adamant: and i will be most glad to hold then the public exhibit and discussion of detail points
[10:47] Solomon Mosely: wasnt all that covered already in the maps ive seen on the forums?
[10:48] Moon Adamant: will in the future
[10:48] Moon Adamant: no, Solomon, that was the older version of the masterplan
[10:48] Moon Adamant: which didn’t respond to some concerns that have since been expressed by some groups
[10:48] Solomon Mosely: i see, it was never finally agreed upon then, ok
[10:48] Cindy Ecksol: oh, no, solomon — the current GMP is in force.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* indeed….
[10:49] Cindy Ecksol: but what Gwyn and i are interested in is a process for UPDATING the GMP on a regular basis
[10:49] Moon Adamant: such as the creation of a higher moutain, possible inclusion of a Al- Andaluz cluster, inclusion of a Monastery sim
[10:49] Arria Perreault: can someone give me the transcript of what I have misssed
[10:49] Cindy Ecksol: yes….all the technical details, the CONTENT of the GMP
[10:49] Moon Adamant: the GMP is a document that needs frequent revisions, you see
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: the discussion on the foru that I started is about how we want the GMP to be APPLIED to the community on an ongoing basis
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and constant overseeing…
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly.
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: that’s the “political” aspect
[10:50] Moon Adamant: indeed, it’s important
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: Arria? does that address your question?
[10:52] Arria Perreault: I would like to know if and how I can be involved? (Arria or any interested CDS citizen)
[10:52] Moon Adamant: well, Arria
[10:52] Moon Adamant: as i said
[10:52] Arria Perreault: I think that this technical work has a part of content
[10:52] Moon Adamant: in the technical debate, let me finish the sketch first of all, so we can discuss over something
[10:53] Moon Adamant: yes, it has – the minimal content for our territory to be consistent
[10:53] Arria Perreault: but talking when soemthing is already on the table is a constraint
[10:53] Moon Adamant: such as mandatory roads, etc
[10:53] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: and for the political aspect, I encourage you (and everyone else) to continue to participate in the forum threads that I started.
[10:53] Arria Perreault: and there are an infinitiy of ways to do it
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll note that one of them (the role of the Guild) is completely empty right now….and definitely needs some focus!
[10:54] Moon Adamant: not exactly, since the sims we already have constrain the number of possibilities
[10:54] Arria Perreault: I want to participate to the technical work
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So mmh that will be a role of the Guild…
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I think so.
[10:54] Moon Adamant: i will try to have the sketches ready this week for publication and will convene the workgroup next week
[10:54] Arria Perreault: it seems that a work is already in preparation
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least, it has been so far…
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: Moon, I assume that when you’re ready to start a workgroup you will announce to the Guild?
[10:55] Moon Adamant: yes, of course
[10:55] Solomon Mosely: im sorry, one last question….
[10:55] Moon Adamant: the thing atm is that the GMP on its current sketch has 52 sims
[10:55] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so Arria and everyone else — keep an eye on the forum for moon’s announcement
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:55] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:55] Moon Adamant: and if a base is not defined, it may happen that the discussion is held endlessly
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: by the way, I’ll note that Arria’s confusion about this is in part because there is no one in either the exec or RA responsible for “moving the GMP along”
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: in other words, right now it has no real champion in government.
[10:56] Arria Perreault: yes, but the risk is that people will ask so many changes that you wll to do it again
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point, Cindy.
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: no political process.
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees.
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: this is what the forum discussion is about, so if you are interested, please follow and join in.
[10:56] Arria Perreault: I did
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: it IS a complex issue (as Gwyn and I discovered when we started to look at it)
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: but I think we have broken it down in a way that keeps us focused so that we can come to some conclusions about what political processes we might need and how best to put them in place
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks arria and moon
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* yes… mostly because the question of the role of the Guild as a NGO — should a document created by a NGO have ‘the force of law’? It’s a serious precedent.
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: anyone else?
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: raises hand
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol: solomon? you have the floor
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Thank you for this work, Moon
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: are we reviewing it now for regular maintenance or for a specific propsed expansion at this time?
[10:58] Moon Adamant: thank you all, i have to go and prepare the Guild meeting
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol: ah, good question solomon!
[10:58] Moon Adamant: ok
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question…. I don’t know if we have an answer
[10:58] Moon Adamant: both
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you in a bit, Moon)
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: well….yes, I think we do
[10:59] Moon Adamant: we are introducing Locus Amoenus data
[10:59] Solomon Mosely: then why is the gmp being reviewed if we have no goal with it at the moment?
[10:59] Solomon Mosely: ok
[10:59] Moon Adamant: and we are preparing new ways to expand to address the desire of several groups of people
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: because it is a GENERAL document, must be always up to date
[10:59] Moon Adamant: now i must go
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: and I need to go too…
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: but before I do, Solomn, let me say that we certainly should be looking at a new sim right now
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: as Rose commented on the forum recently, we are out of space to sell
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: so if you hae ideas…..bring them forward, please!
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the main reason seems to be: the New Guild is reviewing the GMP because a) it has to be kept up to date; b) citizens wish changes to it, and the NG is the appropriate place to discuss and incroporate those changes?
[11:00] Pip Torok torn between NGO and party! (a trap of hos own making)
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: for now, yes Gwyn.
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: adding a new sim is a separate process
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: and we SHOULD be doing that.
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, it is!
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: hopefully somone will propose for discussion at the next RA meeting and we can go from there.
[11:01] Solomon Mosely: ok, i just missed what the current goal was exactly
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: two separate issues, solomon.
[11:01] Solomon Mosely: gotcha
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: we can work on long-term and short term simultaneously
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hopefully!)
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: ok, if no other issues, i’d like to thank everyone for thier time
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: move to adjourn
[11:02] Pip Torok: seconded
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
[11:02] Sonja Strom: aye
[11:02] Pip Torok: aye
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least for short-term, the RA and the Chancellor have two reasonably detailed procedures: NL 8-2 and 8-4 (even if they have slight inconsistencies); so we know how to proceed
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: thanks!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 29 March 2009

RA Meeting March 29 TRANSCRIPT
by Gwyneth Llewelyn » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:32 am
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: kk
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: didn’t think to get it back from him….
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: hi gwyn.
[8:58] Soro Dagostino: Ahhh
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: do you happen to have a recorder you could give me?
[8:58] Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
[8:59] Justice Soothsayer: try this one, Cindy. Not the usual one I use, though.
[8:59] Pip Torok: hi Soro!
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: hmmmm….didn
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: didn’t rez!
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: but not in my inventory….
[9:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all (and sorry)
[9:00] Moon Adamant: brb
[9:00] Pip Torok: when youv rezzed … HI!!!
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: sorry?
[9:00] Agenda giver: Hello, Brian Livingston
[9:00] Soro Dagostino: Its Brian
[9:00] Agenda giver: Hello, Justice Soothsayer
[9:00] Pip Torok: hi G J B
[9:00] Soro Dagostino: Hihi
[9:01] Cindy Ecksol: oh,,,,,
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … for not answering hehe
[9:01] Brian Livingston: Hi all.
[9:01] Cindy Ecksol: so DO you have a recorder? this box is empty….
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow the chat lag is impossible!
[9:01] Cindy Ecksol: loading lag in general is bad this morning…
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ã‹¡
[9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn tried to rezz a chat logger â€” no luck though!
[9:02] Agenda giver: Hello, Pip Torok
[9:02] Cindy Ecksol: give it a minute….VERY slow….
[9:02] Cindy Ecksol: took at least a minute to rez that box….
[9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh, I hadn’t noticed that we have the anthem on the wall!!)
[9:02] Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja
[9:02] Brian Livingston: Y’know, I had sorta foggten how nice it is to walk to your destinatio nas opposed to TPing.
[9:02] Agenda giver: Hello, Gwyneth Llewelyn
[9:02] Moon Adamant: back
[9:02] Cindy Ecksol: I didn’t do it!!!
[9:03] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[9:03] Moon Adamant: ok, sorry if i’ll sit on anyone’s lap….
[9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi
[9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: mmmm, especially in spring
[9:03] Brian Livingston misses the telehub days of LL, except for the laggy av-trapping bling malls
[9:03] Brian Livingston: er, SL
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: ok, I think we have a quorum.
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: please touch the ball on the floor for an agenda
[9:04] Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:04] Agenda giver: Hello, Moon Adamant
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure that my chat logger works at all
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: all right, then please indicate your consent to be recorded in chat
[9:05] Sonja Strom: I consent
[9:05] Moon Adamant: i consent to be recorded
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: we will take the log from chat.
[9:05] Justice Soothsayer consents
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: I consent
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, what HAVE you done????
[9:05] Brian Livingston: Sure, log away
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea, what did I do??
[9:05] Rose Springvale: consents (and wishes cindy happy birthday
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I consent to be logged….
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh, happy birdthday too, Cindy!!)
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: thanks!
[9:05] Moon Adamant: happy birsthday, Cindy!
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (even a properly spelled one)
[9:05] Brian Livingston: Woo, happy birthday!
[9:06] Sonja Strom: Happy Birthday!
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Happy BD Cindy.
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: WOOT!
[9:06] Rose Springvale: and Solomon yesterday!
[9:06] Pip Torok: HAPPY BIRTHDAT Cindy!!!!
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: happy birthday solomon!
[9:06] Solomon Mosely: ) thanks
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: and thanks to rose for remembering and letting the cat out of th ebag
[9:06] Moon Adamant: Happy Birthday Solomon!
[9:06] Rose Springvale: hey, what are friends for!?
[9:06] Moon Adamant: hmmm…. Aries….
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: happy birthday too, Solomon!
[9:06] Rose Springvale:
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:06] Solomon Mosely: yea, i was just thinking that lol
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Rose
[9:06] Pip Torok: ah … happy Birthday Sol!
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: I think we have consent from everyone
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Happy Birthday Sol.
[9:07] Solomon Mosely: thank you
[9:07] Brian Livingston issues a blanket happy birthday/anniversary/new baby/ business opening greeting applicable for 30 days, starting retroactively two days ago and lasting for a period not extending past 30 days
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Bri
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: if you don’t have an agenda, please look now.
[9:07] Moon Adamant: lol
[9:07] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:07] Rose Springvale: rofl
[9:07] Justice Soothsayer: lol. sounds like BRian went to law school.
[9:07] Agenda giver: Hello, Rose Springvale
[9:07] Agenda giver: Hello, Soro Dagostino
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice: ã‹¡
[9:07] Sonja Strom: yeah — or marketing school
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha, the agenda works!
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: in light of recent developments I’d like to make a small change to the top of the agenda
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: of COURSE it works, Gwyn– I programmed it!
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh …
[9:08] Agenda giver: Hello, Pip Torok
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[9:08] Agenda giver: Hello, Solomon Mosely
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: The small change is to note that in light of Symo’s resignation from RA, Simplicity Party met this week and appointed Brian Livingston to fill Symo’s empty seat
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Yay!!!
[9:09] Justice Soothsayer: congrats Brian
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: So we need for swear Brian in.
[9:09] Pip Torok: welcome Brian!
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray, and welcome Brian!
[9:09] Rose Springvale: yay, brian!
[9:09] Moon Adamant: congrats Brian
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Welcome back.
[9:09] Brian Livingston: Ahem… ****, I hve sworn myself in
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how irregular!
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: well, if I could find that notecard with the words on it I’d give it to you….
[9:09] Brian Livingston: I migth have it from last time
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: can’t remember whta I called it
[9:10] Rose Springvale: “oath?”
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: that’s what I thought…but no
[9:10] Brian Livingston: Hmm, I have the oath o the lollipop guild apparently…
[9:10] Justice Soothsayer: here it is
[9:10] Brian Livingston accepted your inventory offer.
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: ah, “Affirmation!”
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: thx, justice
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[9:10] Justice Soothsayer: yw
[9:11] Brian Livingston: Aah, thanks all
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol: ok.
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol: so can we consider Brian properly installed?
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: So move.
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: second?
[9:12] Justice Soothsayer: After Brian repeats the Affirmation, he’ll be official.
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: Brian, can you please repeat the affirmation?
[9:12] Brian Livingston: I, Brian Livingston, having been appointed as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: excellent!
[9:12] Moon Adamant applauds
[9:12] Sonja Strom claps!
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: ok, second minor addition to the agenda
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Yay!
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re pushing it, Cindy …
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: SP also discussed the LRA role.
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: since Symo is now the leading vote-getter for SP in the last election, he has agreed to take on the role of LRA.
[9:13] Pip Torok claps
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Symo…?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: soro
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Brian?…
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: sorry — sorry
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro!
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: soro
[9:13] Rose Springvale:
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn is UTTERLY confused
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: yes….
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[9:14] Moon Adamant: congrats Soro
[9:14] Justice Soothsayer: see, sigh, so…
[9:14] Rose Springvale: we need a bill for the adoption of names that are not similar!
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: so I am now going to hand over the gavel to SORO and let him continue the meeting by asking if there are any OTHER changes
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose
[9:14] Brian Livingston: Woo, congrats!
[9:14] Sonja Strom: Congratulations Soro
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: congrats, Soro
[9:14] Rose Springvale: yay soro!
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh… congrats I guess… to someone
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:14] Pip Torok: congrats Soro
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: be as nice to him as you have been to me in my short stint
[9:14] Justice Soothsayer: condolences, Soro.
[9:15] Brian Livingston: Hehe, indeed :p
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lol justice!
[9:15] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, much more appropriate, Justice
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: I understand not many know me.
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: So I’ll be brief.
[9:15] Brian Livingston hands Soro a Fire Extinguisher and a pointy stick for keeping the meetings moving :p
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: When running meetings.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: And — so you know, in my long old age, I did become a certified parlimentarian.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Served as that for the California State Bar — conference of delegates.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: A thousand shouting lawyers.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: And I am still alive.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino:
[9:17] Justice Soothsayer: how untraditional to have an LRA who knows parliamentary procedure
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Are there any speakers who wish to speack to the agenda?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Or the items thereon.
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: . . . . counting.
[9:18] Soro Dagostino:
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Moving rigth along . . .
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Ok, next item.
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus of the body that we meet every two weeks.
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[9:20] Sonja Strom: That would be 12 meetings per term, or?
[9:20] Justice Soothsayer: We have to meet at least every 2 weeks per the constitution; we could meet more often if needed.
[9:20] Pip Torok: agree with J
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Do you want that in the form of a motion?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Justice?
[9:21] Cindy Ecksol: seems reasonable unless we have too much business to be transacted in so few meetings
[9:21] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t think we need a motion — that is standing procedure
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Ahemm . . . . Motion — then discussion
[9:21] Brian Livingston: I agree wit hCindy
[9:21] Justice Soothsayer: I agree with Cindy too
[9:21] Pip Torok: and me
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: Thats three.
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: and Cindy.
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: Consensus.
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: yes.
[9:22] Sonja Strom: I agree too, except how will it be determined if we want to have more meetings?
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ok, I’m fine with Cindy’s proposal
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: is that not up to LRA?
[9:22] Sonja Strom: Just talk about it and agree to hold more?
[9:22] Pip Torok: the ra puts a motion t that effect
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: The size of the agenda.
[9:23] Sonja Strom: Yes, Cindy, that is my question.
[9:23] Sonja Strom: Would the LRA make that determination?
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: yes. so if Soro proposed today to meet next week….we would have to agree
[9:23] Brian Livingston: LRA perogative or direct request tothe LRA by a member?
[9:23] Justice Soothsayer: I believe the LRA can call a meeting if events dictate; typically we’ll set the following meeting if needed earlier than 2 weeks
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: just as we need to agree (as it says on agenda) that next meeting is in 2 weeks
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Agenda item.
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: No vote?
[9:24] Sonja Strom: OK, I think I understand your answers.
[9:24] Cindy Ecksol: part of consent agenda?
[9:24] Sonja Strom: The LRA can decide, or if the other RA members want they can bring up the issue.
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Its the LRA that produces the Agenda
[9:25] Sonja Strom: I am in agreement with that.
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with it too
[9:25] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I agree
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Ok, 12 April it is.
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[9:26] Sonja Strom: I have one question about that ~
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: 0900?
[9:26] Sonja Strom: it will be Easter.
[9:26] Sonja Strom: Is that ok with everybody?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, I was just looking.
[9:26] Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps we SHOULD do next week instead
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Erm, Ithat isn’t going to work for me
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: What Brian?
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Meeting on Easter, that is
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: kk
[9:27] Sonja Strom: Brian, will you be busy on that day?
[9:27] Rose Springvale: bunny’s are tired easter morning…
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And which Easter is that? Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Jewish, Ortodox…?
[9:27] Moon Adamant: lol Roser
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, exactly!
[9:27] Rose Springvale:
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: I propose we meet next week, Sunday at nine.
[9:28] Brian Livingston: Chocolate Egg Easter
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Chair will entertain a motion for that.
[9:28] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:28] Sonja Strom:
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:28] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:28] Justice Soothsayer: Unfortunately, I’ll be travelling next week and can’t meet, so I’ll ask for a 7-day vote on anything that comes up for a vote.
[9:28] Sonja Strom: ok, then from there it can be on a two-week schedule unless we change it
[9:28] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[9:28] Justice Soothsayer: But I’ll vote aye on meeting next Sunday, just without me.
[9:28] Pip Torok: aye
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:29] Sonja Strom: yes
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: You vill learn!
[9:29] Soro Dagostino:
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Chair accepts the consensus of the body, 7 day vote.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Now, more confusing — any matters left over from prior meetings?
[9:30] Sonja Strom: I think under the RA procedures, the 7-day vote is automatically granted if requested in advance.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Accepted.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Anyone?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Prior matters?
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol: flag and anthem?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Flag.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Motion?
[9:32] Justice Soothsayer: Still waiting for a proposal from Chancellor on AA
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah yes, good point, Justice)
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol: can’t discuss a proposal that isn’t on the table
[9:33] Cindy Ecksol: I move that we adopt the Flag Bill
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:33] Sonja Strom: Which is?
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: See the agenda.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Lets take a moment to read.
[9:33] Sonja Strom: To read the agenda?
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2034
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol: agenda in the ball on the floor
[9:34] Justice Soothsayer: I’m content with the current flag
[9:34] Brian Livingston: For the record, do we have a bill number for archival purposes off hand?
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol: no, Brian, can you give us one?
[9:34] Sonja Strom: So we are talking about the flag bill proposed by Claude?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: cindy?
[9:35] Cindy Ecksol: yes
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g this flag: http://claude.desmoulins.googlepages.co … gDraft.pdf ?
[9:35] Cindy Ecksol: that was what i put on the agenda. since that’s how it seems to have been “tabled” to date
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 stars, assymetrically arranged, on the top left corner, small size?
[9:35] Cindy Ecksol: Bill says THREE stars.
[9:36] Brian Livingston: Hmmm, not off-hand. I’ll have to see where it falls in order of legislation passed this term.
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[9:36] Cindy Ecksol: * Edit post
* Delete post
* Report this post
* Information
* Reply with quote
Another Flag Bill
Postby Claude Desmoulins on Tue 05 Aug , 2008 11:06 am
Per Gwyn’s suggestion in This thread : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2017#wrap

WHEREAS, the current flag of the CDS, with two stars, was adopted shortly after the addition of Colonia Nova, and

WHEREAS, there was at least a tacit suggestion that we add a star per sim to the flag, and

WHEREAS. the GMP calls for a continent of up to 47 regions, and

WHEREAS, that’s a lot of stars to squeeze onto one flag

Therefore be it resolved that the CDS flag shall henceforth have three stars, representing the three branches (representative, philosophic, and executive) of our government , placed on the hoist side (see attached TGA files)
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That proposal is one year old…
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have less regions proposed now (42)
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: yes, about time to revive it and either pass or kill, eh?
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps more if new GMP is developed that way.
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the discussion is mostly about “how many stars and why
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: yes, exactly.
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ”
[9:37] Brian Livingston: I think it has merit. At first, I was put off by the thought of not updating the flag for each region, being hte american-centric person that I am and partial to our flag. Hoqwever, that is a lot of labor for each region and requires that the same base file is shared and constantly available
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Is this the discussion time for this bill?
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Brian
[9:37] Brian Livingston: So there is certainyl something to be said about having a constant symbol
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol nods at songa
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: sonja
[9:38] Sonja Strom: thanks
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sonja, I think so!
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Ok folk.
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: are you ready to vote?
[9:38] Sonja Strom: I’m not yet.
[9:38] Pip Torok: Has anyone proposed one star per _cluster_ e.g. on for NFS one for NH one for pelagic sims etc.?
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmmmmmmmmmmh
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not, either!
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Or move and amendment?
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[9:38] Justice Soothsayer: Well, Soro, I’m still not sure whether we are voting for a 3-star bill or a 4-star image.
[9:38] Moon Adamant: that is tranferring the problem pip
[9:38] Sonja Strom: Rose made a comment about it in the forum I thought was interesting, that 4 stars would make it work better when texturing things with it.
[9:39] Moon Adamant: agreed
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol: To clarify: we are voting on the THREE star bill unless someone moves to amend
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say that we should discuss this in two steps: 1) A fixed amount of stars forever, OR a changeable amount depending on regions/sims/whatever; and 2) If 3 or 4
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Three stars.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: I didn’t quite understand that, but maybe we could consider it.
[9:39] Sonja Strom agrees with Gwyneth
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Thats is the Agenda item before the body.
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: If its to be four stars — we need an amendment.
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: so does someone have objectsion to the “fixed number” of stars?
[9:40] Sonja Strom: I don’t mean to be short, but the agend item is “Flag Bill.”
[9:40] Pip Torok: not me
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Gwyneth’s idea is a way for us to talk about the Flag Bill.
[9:41] Justice Soothsayer: I am in favor of “fixed number of stars” rather than adding 1 each time we add a sim
[9:41] Brian Livingston: Ideally, I would prefer to add a star for each region, however i don’t think it is reliably sustainable.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol continues to look around for objections to fixed number of stars…..
[9:41] Sonja Strom: So Soro, Claude’s bill has been seconded?
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: No
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: And no one listens.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: yes, has been seconded and can be amended if we now wish to
[9:41] Sonja Strom: ok, then we are still in open discussion about it.
[9:41] Sonja Strom is listening
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: we are in discussion
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Now.
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Time limits are stretching.
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to vote?
[9:43] Sonja Strom: No, I’m not.
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Three stars.
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really don’t know what to say, except that either we amend it now, or drop it forever = I’m all for a FIXED number of stars for reasons of practicality (even the EU found that out after getting 12 stars!)
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: i move to extend the time limit
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: let’s continue discussion
[9:43] Pip Torok: the advantage of a fixed number is that the number represents the members of the original confederation (NFS CN)
[9:43] Sonja Strom: second
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Cindy’s move to continue the discussion.
[9:43] Brian Livingston: I second
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Non debatable.
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Pip
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Vote?
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on continuing to discuss.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:43] Justice Soothsayer: aye on continuing discussion
[9:43] Pip Torok: aye on continuing to discuss
[9:44] Brian Livingston: aye on continuing discussions
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: nays?
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: So we continue
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol: I saw no serious objections to fixed number of stars….still true?
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:44] Justice Soothsayer: Soro to be parliamentarily correct, I’ll move to amend “three stars” to “4 stars”.
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy, only brian’s comment
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Is gthere a second?
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol nods at Gwyn and Brian
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice: and include on Claude’s wording that the fourth star represents “the people”?
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (as suggested on the forums)
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: no second for justice’s motion?
[9:45] Justice Soothsayer: OK, Gwyn.
[9:45] Pip Torok: what about 2 as the _original_ members of the confederation?
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: (cannot discuss without a second)
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy
[9:45] Brian Livingston: I weouldn’t identify the stars with any region. It creates a two-tiered system of categorizing and prioritizing our sisms and seems contrary to our democratic ideals
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Pip, I see what you are talking about, but our community was not founded as two sims in partnership…
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: Pip, do you want to make a motion for two stars?
[9:45] Sonja Strom: it was Neualtenburg for some time, and then Neufreistadt…
[9:46] Sonja Strom: then added another sim.
[9:46] Pip Torok: no …but you see what happens if we add star after star after star
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Should this be referred to a working party?
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah really
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think so, Soro
[9:46] Rose Springvale groans from the cheap seats
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Soro, what’s your hurry?
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, I would not favor a working group: we do not even have a second for any changes from three stars
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: From a ONE-YEAR thread we see that not many people are really interested in discussing this further,
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: To finish within an hout.
[9:47] Brian Livingston: But it seems resolved that we are working with a fixed number of stars. The discussion is simply over whether to add a fourth star to represent the citizens’ role in our governance
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we have 2-3 alternatives
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, brian
[9:47] Sonja Strom: Do we have an hour time limit?
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. I agree that there is not much more to discuss
[9:47] Sonja Strom: for finishing?
[9:47] Pip Torok: I propose that the flag be composed of two stars … as the first two members of the CDS confederation
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: OK, folks, if someone wants FOUR stars or TWO stars there must be a motion AND a second
[9:47] Brian Livingston: I second Justice’s proposal to add the urth star to represent the citizens
[9:47] Brian Livingston: fourth*
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: there is a motion to amend to FOUR stars, no second
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Justice’s motion too.
[9:48] Moon Adamant: well, it would be good if you could finish before Guild’s meeting time at 11
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: [herding cats] [9:48] Cindy Ecksol: kk!
[9:48] Cindy Ecksol: can we now vote on that amendment?
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Moon
[9:48] Pip Torok: errr my motion?
[9:48] Sonja Strom: [being pushy] [9:48] Brian Livingston: Mr Leader, Bunneh!
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: The motion before the body – four stars on the flag.
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A point of order… there are several ways to arrange the 4 stars,
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Called questions.
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Vote?
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: does Justice’s amendment propose Claude’s way of arranging the four stars too?
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn…hold that thought for discussion
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Cindy.
[9:49] Moon Adamant: Gwyn, i think as suggested in teh image in the forums….
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol: we are just voting to amend (or not) right now.
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Vote please.
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol: nay
[9:49] Brian Livingston: Aye to amendment
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, aye for amendment.
[9:49] Justice Soothsayer: aye to 4 stars, the 4th added to represent the People.
[9:49] Sonja Strom: aye to amendment
[9:49] Sonja Strom: (sorry Pip)
[9:49] Pip Torok: (np_
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Votes?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on the motion.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Motion is to approve the flag with 4 stars.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: discussion
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote?
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: in re Gwyn’s question about arrangement, the Flag Bill thread has a mockup of 4 stars.
[9:51] Brian Livingston: I think the stars have more visual impact along the hoist side of the flag
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: shall we look?
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has, yes, Cindy
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2034
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggest that the RA only worries about the # of stars, and leave the aesthetical considerations to the technical expertise of the Guild
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: scroll down a bit…
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — is that a motion to amend?
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude’s reasoning for the arrangement: “Note that the yellow stars, even though small, stand out against the blue background.”
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahh Soro
[9:52] Justice Soothsayer is ready to vote on Flag Bill as amended
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we’re getting into heraldics
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA vote on a *blazon*?
[9:53] Pip Torok: and /me is ready
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: There is a call for the question
[9:53] Moon Adamant: ahem
[9:53] Brian Livingston: So we are refering design considerations to the Guild? I would aonly agree if we vote again to approve the final product, given its symbolic importance
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Would somebody please state how the bill would actually read as amended?
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian: yes.
[9:53] Moon Adamant: Gwyn, you can onlt blazon after you have the coat defined
[9:53] Moon Adamant: only*
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ok.
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: The motion is to have four stars on the flag.
[9:54] Cindy Ecksol: hold on….I am rewriting..,..
[9:54] Moon Adamant: sorry… i like heraldry
[9:54] Sonja Strom: Thanks Cindy
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Cindy . . .
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Should we hold the matter and move on to the next item?
[9:56] Cindy Ecksol gave you Flag bill.
[9:56] Cindy Ecksol: did I get everyone?
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you CIndy
[9:56] Justice Soothsayer: got it
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Yes, do all have it.
[9:56] Pip Torok: yes
[9:56] Rose Springvale: hmm
[9:56] Brian Livingston: nopes
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need to vote on this amendment
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Your mod is an amendment?
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, Soro
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:57] Rose Springvale: can you post in chat please
[9:57] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:57] Brian Livingston: i don’t have the bil
[9:57] Justice Soothsayer: WHEREAS, the current flag of the CDS, with two stars, was adopted shortly after the addition of Colonia Nova, and
WHEREAS, there was at least a tacit suggestion that we add a star per sim to the flag, and
WHEREAS. the GMP calls for a large continent of many regions, and
WHEREAS, that’s a lot of stars to squeeze onto one flag.
Therefore be it resolved that the CDS flag shall henceforth have four stars, representing the three branches (representative, philosophic, and executive) of our government and the people with Guild to propose final design and present to RA for approval.
[9:57] Brian Livingston: thank you cindy
[9:57] Moon Adamant: please, for the audience’s advantage, paste things in chat
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[9:57] Sonja Strom: Thanks Cindy and Justice
[9:57] Moon Adamant: thanks Justice
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: WHEREAS, the current flag of the CDS, with two stars, was adopted shortly after the addition of Colonia Nova, and
WHEREAS, there was at least a tacit suggestion that we add a star per sim to the flag, and
WHEREAS. the GMP calls for a large continent of many regions, and
WHEREAS, that’s a lot of stars to squeeze onto one flag.
Therefore be it resolved that the CDS flag shall henceforth have four stars, representing the three branches (representative, philosophic, and executive) of our government and the people with Guild to propose final design and present to RA for approval.
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Vote . . .
[9:57] Rose Springvale: lol. and gwyn…
[9:57] Pip Torok: aye
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: All those in favor.
[9:58] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[9:58] Justice Soothsayer votes aye
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[9:58] Pip Torok: aye
[9:58] Sonja Strom raises hand
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: yes Sonja
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:58] Sonja Strom: How will it be known who will design it?
[9:58] Sonja Strom: Would that be another bill, or just left open?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: sez right there “Guild”
[9:58] Moon Adamant: workgroup in the Guild
[9:58] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: That is a change of subject.
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Any nays?
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: yay!!!
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Sorry Soro, I just didn’t see that wording in the bill.
[9:59] Rose Springvale smiles
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: can we take time for the anthem bill now?
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Now to Anthem.
[9:59] Justice Soothsayer: Move adoption.
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anthem is MORE FUN
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconds Justice’s move.
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: [groan] [10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Soro
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: which move?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: Hm Cindy, I don’t know if we can take so much time…
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:00] Sonja Strom: we need to really hurry!!
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move to adopt the Anthem
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:00] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: That is before the body.
[10:00] Justice Soothsayer: It’s on the wall
[10:00] Pip Torok: aye
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was Justice’s motion)
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Its on the wall.
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: rose can you play for us?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: No, we can not take the time to discuss this –
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[10:00] Brian Livingston wouldn’t suggest hurrying with any enduring symbol ofthe confederation, although he has no objections to the anthem.
[10:00] Rose Springvale: oh, sure
[10:00] Sonja Strom: we must vote immediately!!
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg
[10:01] Sonja Strom: Besides, there has been a second
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can move to extend the meeting surely?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: That’s a call of the question
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: so….that means discussion
[10:01] Moon Adamant: welll… there is still one hour to Guild… you can take your time…
[10:01] Sonja Strom: oh, ok,
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: I tried.
[10:01] Sonja Strom: so we can have a little time?
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: yes…
[10:01] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to extend the discussion
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: That’s the rules.
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: that is, I second gwyn’s motion to extend
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Non-debatetable
[10:02] Sonja Strom: I thought you were in a hurry.
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I vote aye on discussing a BIT further.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: need to set up the player, will get it streaming in one sec
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Call on extending time
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Rose
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on extending time
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol: aye to extend
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Vote
[10:02] Sonja Strom: ok, I can take a few minutes for this if you can.
[10:02] Justice Soothsayer: aye to extend
[10:02] Sonja Strom: aye on extending
[10:02] Pip Torok: aye to extend
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Ok, more time.
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol notes that rose is setting up the player…
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… I have actually a question
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Anthem is two things,
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lyrics and music
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: in order
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we move to approve both together?
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or each in turn?
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: yes!!!!
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: wh would we separate????
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so the motion is to approve both together.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: why*
[10:04] Rose Springvale: playing
[10:04] Pip Torok: together … one affects the other!
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Its presented as a single motion.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (who knows, Cindy, because someone might like the music and not the lyrics, or vice-verse )
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Single motion; I agree with that then
[10:04] Rose Springvale: hm, this isn’t the one with lyrics.. hold on
[10:04] Rose Springvale: just listen lol
[10:04] Justice Soothsayer: indeed, a single motion
[10:05] Rose Springvale: are you hearing it?
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: yes
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Just over.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:05] Sonja Strom: Not me
[10:05] Rose Springvale: is that it?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: no
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: sounds wierd….
[10:05] Moon Adamant: yes
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: weird even
[10:05] Rose Springvale: one sec
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: not the recording we made…old words
[10:05] Moon Adamant: it’s a synth voice on the anthem
[10:05] Sonja Strom: I have heard it before though…
[10:06] Sonja Strom: ah, ok Cindy
[10:06] Rose Springvale: need to import again.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nicer :=)
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: this is the instrumental…don’t hear the voice
[10:07] Brian Livingston: is ther a url to a copy online?
[10:07] Brian Livingston: SL doesn’t like playing music reliably for me for whatver reason
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:07] Sonja Strom: While we are waiting, maybe I should let you know I was making an ironic comment about needing to hurry before, not actually saying we need to hurry.
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: kk
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: oh, ok!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There ought to be, yes
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol ok Sonja!
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: was wondering what the rush was
[10:07] Pip Torok: words are so much better when I sing them in my head!
[10:08] Sonja Strom: me too, Cindy!
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: ok, rose!!!
[10:08] Sonja Strom: I even got excluded from a vote because I was not fast enough.
[10:08] Rose Springvale: here we are
[10:08] Brian Livingston: Aah, that makes more sense Sonja Gotta love the nuances of inflections in text chat
[10:08] Sonja Strom:
[10:09] Sonja Strom: Will this be playing on the sound stream?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: yes….it is

I’m just a virtual girl in a virtual world…

Gwyneth Llewelyn
I need a hobby

Posts: 714
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Neufreistadt
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Re: RA Meeting March 29 TRANSCRIPT 3/3
by Gwyneth Llewelyn » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:46 am
[10:09] Moon Adamant: it is playing now, Sonja
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh I simply love this version
[10:09] Rose Springvale: oh,yes, i’ll repeat.. its only one minute
[10:09] Brian Livingston: Hmm, io can’t find a url to this on the forums. I thought we had one
[10:09] Sonja Strom: hm, I’m sorry, I am not hearing it.
[10:09] Rose Springvale: just press play
[10:10] Rose Springvale: is it playing ?
[10:10] Sonja Strom: ah, ok, needed to restart the player
[10:10] Sonja Strom: yes, now
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my
[10:10] Sonja Strom: Cindy’s lovely voice…
[10:10] Rose Springvale: its looping
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *do* feel the urge to stand up
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:10] Rose Springvale: makes me want to cry lol
[10:10] Sonja Strom: hehee, me too!
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it came out so well!
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: yes, it’s very anthem-like
[10:10] Sonja Strom Claps!!!
[10:10] Moon Adamant applauds
[10:10] Pip Torok: claps …
[10:10] Sonja Strom: Very nice.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol who would imagine,
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: ok, i move to end discussion and appropve
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that such a thing that started as a JOKE
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: would at the end sound so good!!
[10:11] Rose Springvale: makes you wonder about all anthems lol
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose: YES!
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:11] Sonja Strom: hehee
[10:11] Rose Springvale: ready to stop?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s what I had in mind
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: hey, in the US ours is a drinking song
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I second Cindy’s motion!
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Call the questions
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy: ))))))))
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AYE
[10:11] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:12] Brian Livingston: abstain
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Justice
[10:12] Brian Livingston: (I can’t hear it and all of the forum links to it are dead)
[10:12] Rose Springvale: oh
[10:12] Sonja Strom: Brian try restarting your stream player.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[10:13] Rose Springvale: sorry brian i just turned it off lol
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Nays?
[10:13] Rose Springvale: want it again?
[10:13] Brian Livingston: not going to work. There is something about the linux client update and my sound driver
[10:13] Sonja Strom: oh, ups
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just have some old versions, sadly, Brian
[10:13] Rose Springvale: i’ll email it brian
[10:13] Sonja Strom: oh ah
[10:13] Brian Livingston: I need to work on fixing it since LL refuses to
[10:13] Rose Springvale: after the meeting lol
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Motion is carried, Justice astains?
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: /wow! two bills in one session!! we’d better be careful — we might start actually being productive here!
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if this WILL be on the constitution (flag & anthem)
[10:13] Moon Adamant: in any case, the ayes already carry it, right’
[10:13] Justice Soothsayer: no, I vote aye as well
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:13] Moon Adamant: ?
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: kk
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[10:14] Sonja Strom: People have problems with seeing Metanomics who have the linux os, too.
[10:14] Pip Torok: sounds like a good precedent though!
[10:14] Justice Soothsayer was trying to hear the anthem
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Any Citizens proposals.
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should also ask the RA archivist to to keep copies of:
[10:14] Rose Springvale: i’ll be glad to email to anyone who couldn’t hear and wants to
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – the text of the anthem
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: yes, and music….I have PDF
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – the music as per the latest arrangement
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Thanks Rose.
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – and the music, as sung by the lovely Cindy (at least!)
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: who is archivist? Aliasi?
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: No Citizens Proposals?
[10:15] Brian Livingston: We should get that onto the portal when we get a moment
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question, Cindy!
[10:15] Rose Springvale: publius is RA archivist isn’t he?
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that too, Brian
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Publius then.
[10:15] Rose Springvale: Aliasi is content
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok….
[10:15] Rose Springvale: probably both
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Call for adjournment?
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:15] Justice Soothsayer: adjourn
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:15] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:15] Justice Soothsayer: aye
[10:15] Pip Torok: aye
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: abstain
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: LOL
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: hey, only 30 minutes over
[10:16] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:16] Brian Livingston: lol
[10:16] Sonja Strom: over what Cindy?
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: original time per the agenda
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: And they only gave us 45 min.
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Yay!!
[10:16] Justice Soothsayer: good job, Soro
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Thanks all.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: congrats all!
[10:16] Moon Adamant: thank you Soro, and all
[10:16] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 5 April 2009

RA Meeting 5 April 2009 TRANSCRIPT
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:40 pm
[9:02] Pip Torok: hi soro , cindy, sonja
[[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: soro, I have a recorder, but it doesn’t ask for permission to record so you’ll need to keep asking people to consent in chat
[9:03] Sonja Strom: Hi Kedwyn!
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: We do have a quorum
[9:03] Kedwyn Parmelee: hi
[9:03] Sonja Strom: I consent to be recorded
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: ok, will start the recorder…hold on.
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: How would that . . .
[9:03] Pip Torok: i consent to be recorded
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: Hi Ked. Welcom
[9:04] Soro Dagostino: Sonja do you consent to recording?
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: wait!
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: not set yet…
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: ok, go ahead…
[9:04] Sonja Strom: I consent to be recorded
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: I consent to recording.
][9:05] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: consent
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: Hello Arria
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: Do you consent to recording
[9:05] Arria Perreault: Hello Soro
[9:05] Arria Perreault: of course
[9:06] Arria Perreault: no recorder?
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: recorder is here arria but does not ask for permission
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: please consent in chat
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: didn’t get around to modifying it this week….
[9:06] Arria Perreault: I consent to be recorded
[9:06] Pip Torok: I consent to be recorded
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
[9:07] Rose Springvale: hi Soro, still rezzing
[9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Rose
[9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
[9:07] Rose Springvale: Hi Sonja, Hi everyone
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:08] Kedwyn Parmelee: hi rose and arria
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: Rose, the recorder isn’t working as usual, do you consent to be recorded.
[9:08] Rose Springvale: if i speak, of course
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: I somehow do not doubt that.
[9:08] Soro Dagostino:
[9:08] Rose Springvale: ha! i’m always quiet!
[9:09] Rose Springvale: hi brian!
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Hi Brian
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Hello Brian.
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: I’m working on getting this one to ask nicely for permission but didn’t quite get to it this week
[9:09] Brian Livingston: Good Morning all, forgive the tardiness
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Welcome
[9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Brian
[9:09] Brian Livingston: I’ve been absorbed in Animal Crossing for the wii and looekd up and realized it was 12:02. eep
[9:10] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Some admin matters — We need to have you consent to recording in chat.
[9:10] Brian Livingston: Record away I consent
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: Shall the body come to order?
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol checks the menu deciding what to order…
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Our morning agenda is a little sparse. Does anyone have a matter or item they wish to add?
[9:12] Arria Perreault: just two questions for understand well what is in agenda
[9:12] Pip Torok: Id like to add an item for descussion only
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[9:13] Arria Perreault: 1. what is TBA?
[9:13] Sonja Strom: I would like to make one comment.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: To be announced.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Pip, your next.
[9:13] Arria Perreault: 2. what means removal of forum administrator? which forum?
[9:14] Pip Torok: i’d like to discuss “Look and Feel ” within CDS sims ..
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: It was a suggestion [the forum Admin] that things were slow.
[9:15] Pip Torok: (shall I go on?
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: And performance was lacking.
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Yes Pip.
[9:16] Pip Torok: right … well it is a fact that … objects are put up om public land at various times
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Pip . . . as to the item on the agenda.
[9:16] Pip Torok: are taken down, often at varioiing and arbitarary times
[[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Not opening for discussion just yet.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Lets get the agenda set first.
[9:16] Pip Torok: decision like say choice of meadow are made arbitararily …
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Pip — you move it to be an item on the agenda?
[9:17] Pip Torok: and public spaces are given sound or silence without general consent
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Pip.
[9:17] Pip Torok: i see that as a problem …
[9:17] Pip Torok: yes?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: I am sorry, but discussion will await the item . . .
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Your motion is to add the issue to the agenda?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: The chair will accept the motion, is there a second?
[9:18] Pip Torok: right .. the agenda s/be “Concern about Look and Feel with CDS sims”
[9:19] Pip Torok: (imo)
[9:19] Sonja Strom: second
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Ready for the Question?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:19] Pip Torok: yes
[9:19] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:19] Pip Torok: aye
[9:19] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: That will be added to the agenda.
[9:20] Sonja Strom: Soro, I understood what you said too as that he should just begin the conversation.
[9:20] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Brian
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Cindy, would you add that to the agenda?
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Are there any additional items for the agenda?
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: sure…
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: None being stated, the agenda is closed.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Pip’s agenda item is added.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: thirsti, I request you consent to recordation.
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Thirsti?
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm.
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: When he wakes up, we will ask again.
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Are there any speakers on the agenda items, non – RA.
[9:26] thirsti Sweetwater: i conssent
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: A comment for the record.
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: The LRA is apparently not allowed to post items in the official forum.
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: I would hope that could be fixed.
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, Gwyn is the official adminstrator — the forums live on her server
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: since I am a newcomer, I don’t know what to do.
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: all you have to do is ask Gwyn
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: I just did.
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: kk
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Ok, Next meeting.
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Next week is Easter Sunday for many.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: I proposed the body meet next on April 19 @ 0900
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion?
[9:29] Sonja Strom: Is your proposal a motion?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: I cannot make motions as the chair.
[9:30] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:30] Cindy Ecksol: so move
[9:30] Sonja Strom: second
[9:30] Pip Torok: I propose your motion Soro
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[9:30] Brian Livingston: Second, although I will be out of town and request a 7 day vote on any motions during the meeting of APril 19th, 2009.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: So noted as an amendment.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:31] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:31] Pip Torok: aye
[9:31] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol: official calendar has been updated
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[9:32] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Are there any nays?
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Now to the agenda items
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Are there any matters continued from the prior meetings?
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: None stated, we turn to Pip’s Agenda item.
[9:34] Sonja Strom: I would like to make a comment about the last meeting.
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: That is in order. Sonja.
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I want to apologise for the ironic comments I made about the time spent on each topic.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I found it frustrating how short the time was and how hurried our conversation was,
[9:35] Sonja Strom: and so began to say myself I thought we should hurry…
[9:35] Sonja Strom: it was meant as an ironic joke,
[9:36] Sonja Strom: but was apparently understood as being meant seriously by some,
[9:36] Sonja Strom: and there was a misunderstanding, which I take responsibility for.
[9:36] Pip Torok appreciates that irony sometimes backfires
[9:36] Sonja Strom: I learned from that to be more careful in making jokes like that.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: This said,
[9:37] Sonja Strom: I also think the schedule should be there for us,
[9:37] Sonja Strom: not the other way around.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: Maybe we can be a bit less formal about the exact amounts of time given in the schedule on each topic if there is a discussion happening,
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Comment. The flip side of the coin, is that we do need to finish our meetings.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: and not simply have to stop for a vote just because the time given has passed,
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: And if the discussion is to continue, it should have some order.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: and let the conversation basically take the time it needs to.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: So, I have said my view.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: We can discuss it, of course.
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: And I, mine.
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol: in response to Sonja, I’d just like to say,….
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol: that I think we really need to have times set on the agenda….
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: if we don’t, then we tend to wander off-topic, take far too much time to discuss things that should not be debated at such length.
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: better that we run out of “agenda time”
[9:40] Rose Springvale looks at clock… and smiles
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: and have to vote to extend
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: done
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Turning to Pip’s topic.
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Please state the matter Pip?
[9:41] Pip Torok: To kick off .. this applies imo only to _public_ areas and to actions that are not covered by the NGO wps
[9:44] Pip Torok: I propose that if changes are made to public lands … then two things should happen … within 7 days of ity happening , the doer puts an announce ment in a permament thread “Look and Feel” … stating what is to be changed, the length of the change (eg indetermined or a set date of fonish) .. and any citizen could obkect to such a change
[9:44] Rose Springvale raises hand
[9:44] Pip Torok: changes cd be … change of choice of music or silence … advertisements
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: the chair takes that as a motion.
[9:44] Pip Torok: … booths … etc
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:44] Pip Torok: (have finished)
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol sits on hands
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: Anyone?
[9:45] thirsti Sweetwater wonders if rose has a question or has to pee?
[9:45] Soro Dagostino:
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol snickers
[9:46] Rose Springvale:
[9:46] thirsti Sweetwater: )
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Second
[9:46] Rose Springvale: sigh.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Hi Timo
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: sigh
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: discussion?
[9:46] Timo Gufler: Hi
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: The Proponent?
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: (after rose of course)
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy?
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: rose first…
[9:46] Rose Springvale: (ra before audience cindy)
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: ah…ok
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: First, Hello Timo.
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: I object to Pip’s motion simply because we already have caretakers to whom tat responsibility has been delegated
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: …
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: We need you to consent to recording in chat.
[9:47] Pip Torok: i want to add that citizens hav approached me in the past to say “when is suchand such going” .. from the corner of where s/he lives
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: either we delegate the responsibility because we trust them to handle it…or we don’t have “caretakers” at all.
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: done
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Timo?
[9:48] Timo Gufler: sorry…
[9:48] Timo Gufler: should I touch something?
[9:48] Pip Torok: yes … but what about say boards advertising LA a year after LA has happened and most parcels are sold?
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Wait one please.
[9:48] Cindy Ecksol: well, pip….you are a citizen, and you know who th ecaretakers are. it is simple enough to ask
[9:49] Brian Livingston: This does seem to be a responsibiltiy that is firmly in the realm of the executive and civil service. If we have a problem with the actions or inactions of the executive, perhaps its best that we approach that branch instead of adding additional hurdles.
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol nods in agreement with brian
[9:49] Pip Torok: so i would say to such a person … contact the Chancellor?
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: no….you would say to the caretaker “should this be removed?”
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: if it doesn’t happen, you might speak to the chancellor
[9:50] thirsti Sweetwater: raises hand after rose….
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: is all RA finished?
[9:50] Brian Livingston: Or approach the owner of the object for that matter, to see if it might be something that is no longer relevant and could be removed
[9:50] Brian Livingston is done
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Rose.
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol nods
[9:51] Pip Torok: How wd we know who the caretaker might be … the owner of the object?
[9:51] Sonja Strom: I am a caretaker
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:51] Sonja Strom: So is Lilith
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Rose . .
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Is next.
[9:51] Rose Springvale: First, i think ALL the civil servants in CDS are very responsive and dedicated to the sims
[9:51] Sonja Strom: There might be more, I’m not sure.
[9:51] Rose Springvale: so any of us are happy to help if there are issues.
[9:51] Rose Springvale: as to giving notice before making changes… adamantly.. no
[9:52] Pip Torok: So could I suggest that we publish a list of caretakers?
[9:52] Rose Springvale: we spend so much time trying to get things together aroudn here with very little help.. the last thing we need is one more hoop to jumpt through.
[9:52] Rose Springvale: the list is always published at the beginning of each term
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in the fourms
[9:52] Sonja Strom: The Caretakers are announced in the Forum each term by the Chancellor.
[9:52] Pip Torok: ah …
[9:52] Rose Springvale: and any review of the budget shows who they are as well
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
[9:53] Sonja Strom: I guess one answer to your question Pip, about how one would know who the Caretakers are, is to take something like that to the Chancellor.
[9:53] Rose Springvale wait
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Is there a place where the names can be found without going to the forums?
[9:53] Brian Livingston: There are lists of caretkers, on the executive forum and on the portal. http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=executive
[9:53] Rose Springvale waits
[9:53] Brian Livingston: Albeit, the list needs to update the addition of onen ame, but Sonja and the rest of the civil servant team is listed on there
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Thank you Brian,
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I didn’t know that was there!
[9:54] Brian Livingston: err, are listed*
[9:54] Pip Torok: soro … to save RA time is it possible to withdraw the motion?
[9:54] Rose Springvale: may i proceed soro?
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose.
[9:55] Rose Springvale: Second, as you all might remember, the chancellor has opened up the events budget for sim specific events, to be presented by residents of the sim as they see fit. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to join out team and take the responsibility that goes with it
[9:55] Rose Springvale: Talk to the chancellor or to me
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: I am sorry,
[9:55] Rose Springvale: done
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: I ask that you all return to chat.
[9:56] Cindy Ecksol: here…
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Waiting.
[9:57] Rose Springvale: here as well
[9:57] Brian Livingston blinks
[9:57] Timo Gufler:
[9:57] Sonja Strom looks around the room
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Timo.
[9:58] Pip Torok: Soro … I beg to withdraw my motion
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: The maker of the agenda item has moved that it be dispensed with.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: second
[9:58] Sonja Strom: second
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Non-debateable.
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: \Vote?
[9:59] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:59] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: abstain
[9:59] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: ?
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Pip, you abstained on your own motion.
[9:59] Pip Torok: i meant aye
[10:00] Sonja Strom: hehee
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: do I hear a motion to adjourn?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: wait lol
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: scuse
[10:00] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Ok.
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: public items firat
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Its your nickle now.
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Yes cindy.
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: not me…others?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: a joke.
[10:01] Sonja Strom is wondering if Rose would like to say something to us.
[10:01] Arria Perreault: May I a remark at the end?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Are there any Citizens items.
[10:01] Rose Springvale: just seems odd that we always have citizen time on the agenda and we are never asked before the motion to adjourn
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol THINKS Soro did that as a joke….?
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Here is where Timo’s comment fits.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: I’ve got a couple of things. One, see above re: Event team
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Yes! It was 10:00
[10:02] Timo Gufler: comment?
[10:02] Timo Gufler: did I comment something?
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Yes Timo, your question in the CDS channel belongs here.
[10:03] Timo Gufler: ok
[10:03] Rose Springvale sits quietly again..waiting her turn
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: No problem.
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[10:03] Arria Perreault: And Arria after Rose?
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:04] Rose Springvale: okay, see 1 about. 2. I have asked for help on the anniversary of CDS and possibly a May fair on democracy
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:04] Rose Springvale: 3. I will take to the Chancellor, but i’d like to see more shops on the marktplatz, like sonja’s new one, and fewer offices of factions….
[10:04] Rose Springvale: at least in non election months
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:04] Sonja Strom:
[10:05] Rose Springvale: there are other places in the sims that would be find for gathering places, but “markt” seems to mean we might buy things there
[10:05] Rose Springvale: fine*
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol thinks all factions should meet in the rauthaus
[10:05] Rose Springvale: finally, please send interested potential citizens to me… we have a lot of land to sell.
[10:06] Rose Springvale: (i hear the rathaus is bugged!)
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:06] Sonja Strom: lol!
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Probably!
[10:06] Brian Livingston: That carrot with the flashing light is jut decoration….
[10:06] Rose Springvale: done
[10:06] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Thanks Rose
[10:06] Sonja Strom wants the CDS to have better shopping
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Your next.
[10:07] Arria Perreault: I have a remark about the agenda
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: [donning asbestos coat.] [10:07] Arria Perreault: I have found that it very short, with expressions like TBA
[10:08] Arria Perreault: with that it’s hard to understand the content of the meeting
[10:08] Arria Perreault: as citizen, we need more informations
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: Arria — I started with a request for items for the Agenda last Tuesday.
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: Nada
[10:08] Arria Perreault: I know
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: and…….?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: but it must be understandable and clear
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: So, rather than cancel the meeting I asked — Friday and Saturday again
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: Nada
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: So is “TBA”
[10:09] Pip Torok feels that “To be announced” is better than “TBA”
[10:09] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:10] Arria Perreault: many people don’t have english as mothertongue
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol moves that TBA never be included again on our agendas
[10:10] Rose Springvale thinks these are simple things that can be addressed by asking.
[10:10] Sonja Strom: I agree sometimes the meetings are not occommodating toward non-native English speakers
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Sorry, I shall be more clear the next time it happens.
[10:10] Timo Gufler nods
[10:10] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Anything else to come before the group?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: but why not raise the issue when it first becomes unclear? soro is very approachable i’ve found. and i’d like to see some of the platforms taking some form from our reps, personally
[10:11] Arria Perreault: citizen cannot write in this part of the forum
[10:11] Sonja Strom gets out the DPU platform to look at it
[10:11] Arria Perreault: and I was not often in-world
[10:12] Rose Springvale: but the rest of the forum is read too
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, you can always post in the general forum.
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: that’s how everyone else who has “discussion points” does it…
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: sorry
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Would it be better to announce the agenda in the general forum?
[10:13] Rose Springvale: do both, nbd.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: which means no big deal
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: can be cross-posted Soro
[10:13] Arria Perreault: I think that it is also the responsibility of the authorities to be clear, sorry
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie does this all the time…
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Heh! When I am not allowed to make official announcements, its hard.
[10:13] Brian Livingston: I think the agenda belongs primarially in the RA announcenemts/discussion areas, but can be cross-posted at the LRA’s discretion to general
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: one post in the specifically relevant forum, and a pointer in the discussion forum
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, you CAN post in the RA group — you DID post in the RA group
[10:14] Rose Springvale would eliminate the forums and send all in world.. but realizes she is a minority
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Only to discussions.
[10:14] Rose Springvale: have to go.. see you all. thanks soro, eveyrone
[10:14] Sonja Strom: bye Rose
[10:14] Pip Torok: Its always possible to “view active topics” …
[10:14] thirsti Sweetwater: bye rose
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: kk….that’s where agenda belongs….RA members need to be able to respond
[10:14] Brian Livingston waves to Rose
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Are we ready to adjourn?
[10:14] Sonja Strom: thanks for being here with us today
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: bye rose
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Thanks Rose.
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Adjourn?
[10:15] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Taken as a motion.
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Thank you
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: All in favor.
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:15] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:15] Pip Torok: aye
[10:15] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Wonderful — only 15 min over.

Permalink.

RA meeting 19 April 2009

RA meeting 19 April 2009 TRANSCRIPT (two parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:58 pm
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: Please consent to be recorded.
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: conset
[9:03] Sonja Strom: I consent
[9:03] Timo Gufler: conset
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: consent to recording in chat please…
[9:04] Arria Perreault: consent
[9:04] Pip Torok: i dconsent to be recorded
[9:04] Jamie Palisades: I consent
[9:04] Rose Springvale: is the chat recorder working or do we consent in caht?
[9:04] Sigmund Leominster: I consent
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: And I consent.
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: In chat.
[9:05] Rose Springvale: smile, okay, consent
[9:05] Rose Springvale: agenda in the giver is old…
[9:05] Chat Range: Gwyneth Llewelyn [18m] [9:05] Soro Dagostino: We have four — I was told by Justice and Brian they would be absent.
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, anyone know how to fix that?
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I can fix i fsomeone can give me the agenda
[9:06] Close Range: Gwyneth Llewelyn [24m] [9:06] Soro Dagostino: The Agenda was announced in the forum
[9:06] Chat Range: Gwyneth Llewelyn [5m] [9:06] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: chat recorder is on, but I haven’t yet rigged it to ask permission
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi, sorry for being late!
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: hold on….fixing agenda
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwynethe — consent to recordation in chat please?
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, record away
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: ok, fixed…
[9:08] Long Range: Leni Straaf [89m] [9:08] Jamie Palisades: hmm that was an interesting dance by Arria – who we’ve just lost
[9:08] Rose Springvale: she’s relogging
[9:08] Jamie Palisades: I imagine so
[9:08] Pip Torok: lol
[9:08] Chat Range: Arria Perreault [11m] [9:09] Close Range: Leni Straaf [40m] [9:09] Chat Range: Leni Straaf [15m] [9:09] Soro Dagostino: Hello Leni
[9:09] Rose Springvale: hi Leni!
[9:09] Leni Straaf: hello!
[9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Leni
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn loves Rose’s fan
[9:11] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: Ok, Agenda is posted.
[9:11] Rose Springvale: you should see me dance
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m a fan of your fan…
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yessss
[9:11] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:11] Sonja Strom:
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol I would love that!
[9:11] Arria Perreault: flamenco ?
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Soro
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Feria .. today, 3 pm… lol
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Are there any changes.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Soro, i’ve got announcements, not sure where that goes
[9:12] Rose Springvale: events
[9:12] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises eyebrow, waits for Mr LRA
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Item 5.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: But we will move it to 1 d. if you would like.
[9:13] Rose Springvale: it doesn’t matter, i just don’t want to be left out again
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Your heard today.
[9:14] Rose Springvale:
[9:14] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Any other changes to the Agenda?
[9:15] Cindy Ecksol: soro, I will have to leave at 10, so would like to request 7 day vote for later items
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Any non-RA speakers on Agenda matters?
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one second, Soro…
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Hold Cindy — we have that.
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to ask if Moon’ll be around…
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I do not know.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: i’ll reserve the right to speak as a non ra member
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Noted Rose.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Others?
[9:16] Arria Perreault: I will speak as non ra members
[9:16] Timo Gufler: maybe me too
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Noted Arria
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ok, Moon might attend in a bit=
[9:16] Arria Perreault: III. GENERAL MASTER PLAN
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Timo
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Moon is noted as having something to say
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just if she gets here in time
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Per RA rules, there are three request for 7 day vote.
[9:18] You decline Guthrie’s Amer. And Trad. Folk, Kissena Park (18, 175, 21) from A group member named Dottie Iceberg.
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Justice, Brian and Cindy — who must leave at 10.
[9:18] Timo Gufler: is this the only time stlot when a non- RA member can speak?
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, they can “sign-up” for any slot
[9:19] Timo Gufler: *slot
[9:19] Timo Gufler: ok
[9:19] Jamie Palisades: Mr. LRA? May I suggest that of the agenda items I have (my report, AA and Monastery), we push my report off until after 10, then?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: No. Reserve the right to comment on agenda items
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie.
[9:20] Timo Gufler: I would like to reserve right to comment the Monastery item when it is discussed
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Noted Timo
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Rose, we have a guest, Sigmund, would you introduce please?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: oh, i’d be happy to!
[9:22] Rose Springvale: As you all know, Prim Perfect Magazine is highlighting CDS as sim of the month in May
[9:22] Rose Springvale: Sigmund is the writer who is herding us all together to create a masterpiece
[9:22] Rose Springvale: So if he calls on you, please give time and make him feel welcome here :0
[9:22] Sigmund Leominster: thank you
[9:22] Rose Springvale:
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Welcome Sigmund/
[9:23] Soro Dagostino:
[9:23] Sigmund Leominster nods
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Would you like to say a few words?
[9:23] Sigmund Leominster: Only that I am here simpyl as an observer…
[9:24] Chat Range: Moon Adamant [5m] [9:24] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:24] Sigmund Leominster: And thank you for letting me attend
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon.
[9:24] Rose Springvale: until rose gets her hooks in him and sells land…
[9:24] Sigmund Leominster:
[9:24] Moon Adamant: sorry i am late
[9:24] Cindy Ecksol wonders why rose gave sigmund the seat under that dangerous rock…
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Moon, please consent to recording?
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome to the CDS, then, Sigmund And hi, Moon, you’re just in time to tell the LRA if you’re interested in talking about any of the points of the agenda
[9:24] Moon Adamant: certainly Soro, and please list me also as intending to speak
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: One last admin item. Next meeting is May 3, 2009 @ 0900
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: At the Chancellor’s request — his report is moved to after the discussion items in Item III
[9:26] Leni Straaf: me too constent
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Which is the next — thank you Leni — item on the Agenda.
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: I understand these proposals are not up for a vote today.
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: This a comment and issue discussion today.
[9:28] Jamie Palisades: is that a question directed at me?
[9:28] Jamie Palisades smiles
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: I am reporting what I was told by the Chancellor
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmmh.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: But as a point of order, no resolution is up for vote today.
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Naughty, naughty The Chancellor now tells the LRA what to say? Shocking, shocking
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[9:29] Jamie Palisades: I’ll just volunteer that the RA can do whatever it likes, but I will proposed (in light of the 3 absentees) a straw vote on two proposals today, followed by some homework and a plan to make a final decision on 3 May.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: And that even took a long time.
[9:30] Moon Adamant: have the absentees reequested a 7-day vote?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Yes, said before you arrived.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, they did.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: And Cindy has to leave.
[9:30] Moon Adamant: sorry, mr LRA
[9:30] Moon Adamant: just clearing why no vote is expected today
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: And she has also requested a 7 day vote.
[9:31] Moon Adamant: so… in theory, you can
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: The other issue is that the Resolution to be presented are not complete.
[9:31] Jamie Palisades: Oh i expect we will leave the meeting today with quite a few thigns cleared up if, with all respect, we get t the business items
[9:31] Moon Adamant: vote on this thie week, righT’
[9:31] Moon Adamant: ?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: No, unless the Motion is made in this session.
[9:32] Moon Adamant: ok ok
[9:32] Arria Perreault: for non english speakers: what is the meaning of “strw vote”?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: No vote is expected today.
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Yes?
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Define Straw Vote . . . as you intend it to be.
[9:33] Timo Gufler: lol
[9:33] Arria Perreault: ty
[9:34] Moon Adamant: yes, i am not very sure of the meaning myself
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: Arria has a right to ask.
[9:34] Pip Torok: nor me
[9:34] Rose Springvale: informal vote, indicating preferences
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: That woudl be premature as we’re not in te agenda item, but to be generally responsive, what I would LIKE to see is this: a generall nnbinding agreement to the outline of two transactions — which will then allow the other side’s principles to finalize them – in both cases.
[9:34] Rose Springvale: but not binding
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: rose said it in 7 words
[9:34] Moon Adamant: thank you
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: a third of mine
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: typical
[9:34] Rose Springvale:
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Is that adequate for you?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: yes, tahnk you
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Lets begin.
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: The Draft Bill for the accession of AA.
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Jamie, where is that posted?
[9:36] Rose Springvale: hmm
[9:37] Rose Springvale: isnt’ this about GMP?
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: Soro, I expect (based on some chats with AA) to …
[9:37] Pip Torok: i have a note of the forum proposal if anyone wants a copy
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: huh?
[9:37] Moon Adamant looks up
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: GMP?
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: Lost me there
[9:37] Rose Springvale: sorry, i’ll be quiet
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: May I speak to AA?
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: thanks.
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: On both this and the Monastery project
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: I;d hoped to write bills, and instead am bringing bullet point proposals to you —
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: — for which I apolgize, but I suspect will suffice to get over the main question we face —
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: which is, really, do we want to do these deals?
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: I thikn we do, by the way –\
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: but
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: the details have been constantly elusive
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: every time i sti down with the proponants, we find new twists
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: happily
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: i *think*
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: we have solid common understanding on each of them now
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: so
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: hat’s what I have come here to report, disvuss amd
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: importantly
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: seeka general reaction
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: we should tell both proponents if we intend to proceed.
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: thus the “starw vote” suggestion
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: with that as background:
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: here’s what I have on the first one, Al Andalus.
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: —
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Yes?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (copy and pasting takes a bit of time, Soro )
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: It’s SL it takes some typing. … Sudane was good enough to review the
Al-Andalus estate rent rolls. Here’s what we have confirmed with her help —
though I would like to ask her to report
to you directly before final action is
taken.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: 1. There are two “main” sims, AA Alhambra and AA Generalife. They stay *approximately* fully rented, over time, in the same sort of 80-95% range we think of as normal for our mature NFS or AM sims. As most of you know, there are a lot of gorgeous builds there in the common area — what this means economically is that there’s some resemblance to NFS: a large number of very small lots, and swaths of public space.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: These two do better than break-even consistently, but on a different basis than CDS. Al-Andalaus estate operates as a nonprofit, meaning they get a significantly reduced per-sim cost from Linden Labs, about HALF of the standard rate. So their rent rates amount to an averaged price per prim of around L$3/m2/month, lower than ours.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: that’s significant
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: We could not harmonise CDS-wide rent rates after an AA merger without a rent raise in AA that we think would lose tenants, based on practice. So the first question must be, would CDS be
willing to take into its administration:
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: (a) a region with lower cost and lower rates?
(b) a region where the estate owner of record must be affiliated with some nonprofit organization shell (which Sudane, by the way, cannot do)?
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: Personally I believe both these are feasible, but they must be generally acceptable to you if we are to proceed.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: As to (a): It seems to me that ALL of CDS, as a self-owned government with no profit taker, should be elgible for the Linden nonprofit rate. Our own Linden rates are likely to go UP. SO if we can qualify for them to go DOWN, cut in half or more, we should, period, and benefit from the increased revenue or decrease our rents CDS-wide, or both.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: As to (b): In the SHORT term, everythign we do in CDS is based in tryst anyway. We try Sudane to pay tier on time, not run with the Linden bank account to Ibiza. We trust Aliasi to actually *keep* our unreplaceble backups. Amnd so on. So I am not troubled by an arrangement where Rose’s AA people would persist with a nonprofit, probably with a couple of our CDS and their AA people as the ceremonical incorporators, and then that structure would simply take instruction from the government in the same way Sudane does now. Basically we’d have a second, subsidiary estate owner for some sims.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: In the LONG term, While we’ve talked some times in the past about a corporate shell for CDS, there hasn’t ever really been a complelling benefit. Halving our costs, in a recession, is one, So I would like us to re-rexamine the possibility of a shell nonprofit for all of CDS. Persaonlly I think if we do a second bigger shell it should not be a US organization — but let me stress, ths larger question is NOT a part of an AA merger transaction.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: …
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: I have more, but let’s stop there first. Basic idea: works only at DIFFERENT rates and if we take on the nonprofit structure. Any general questions about that? I note that the AA estate owner, Rose, is here also.
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do have a ton… I’ll sign up with the LRA to add me to the queue
[9:47] Moon Adamant: i have one, very specific
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: Noted Gwyn
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon first, lol
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: Jamie are you finished.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: As I said, no, but the issues of the voids, and merged governance, and simpler. I thn the REAL issue is this big one: will we accept nonharmonized rent and the nonprofit? So let’s do that first.
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: That will be the order of the day.
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Questions on the nonharmonized rent?
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Comments?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh, yes, which order are you taking?
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Nonharmonized rents.
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well, I’ll grab the floor then â€” lol
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: It is the subject on the floor.
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie… you said something which made my ears tingle…
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ” It seems to me that ALL of CDS, as a self-owned government with no profit taker, should be elgible for the Linden nonprofit rate. ”
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you mean â€”” “let’s lobby for it to LL”?
[9:51] Jamie Palisades smiles
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: no
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: here is what I mean
[9:51] Moon Adamant: i don’t think that would work… they’re a tad deaf
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: LL HAS a nonprofit rate
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes.
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: but you have to have an org to get it – it;s a very LIGHT requirement but a solid one
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: so
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and indeed, LL is deaf and dumb, thus my question )
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: we have TWO pieces there Gwyn
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: long term
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: does CDS want to try and halve its own tier?
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: NOT today’s issue
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: just noting it
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: and short term
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: today’s issue
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: I was going to rule
[9:52] Moon Adamant: yes
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: will be take o AA if its ownership stays within a new nonprofit that we contorl?
[9:52] Moon Adamant: but on the short term
[9:52] Moon Adamant: a question is naturally raised
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: The topic is non-harmonized rents.
[9:52] Jamie Palisades smiles and waits for the LRA to direct order of speaking
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Next on that topic?
[9:53] Jamie Palisades raises hus hand on the rent thing
[9:53] Moon Adamant: are you suggesting that the whole CDS to go under the umbrella of AA’s non-profit?
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be my question #2
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if “for the time being”.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: I think it would be great if we could establish a way for nonprofit sims to join the CDS community.
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Moon, I am sorry that is out of order.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Right now all CDS sims are self-supporting, each with different rates of land fees. This would not seem much different from how it is now. The only difference would be the nonprofit factor, which I think is going in a good direction.
[9:53] Moon Adamant: sorry mr LRA
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: (no, Moon, but i think you’re out of order tecnically. Let’s let Soro run the meeting, if you will.)
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I object, Mr LRA. I cannot “vote” on a direction we should take about non-harmonised rates, unless I know what choices we are being offered here today.
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bad choices are made by lack of information
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: (s a point of order I note no vot has yet been sought)
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: That is a Motion to overule the chair?
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Soro. No, just an objection
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: Can we live with nonharmonized rents?
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d prefer as a goal to have harmonised ones.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Within what we can do.
[9:55] Pip Torok: I say we can if only for the short/medium term
[9:55] Jamie Palisades raises his hand on the rent issue .. again
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: thanks. Here’s the raw calculations:
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Pip…. ys, for the short term, to get anything actually going forward…
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: sigh,
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: when you;d done.
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn dear I am goign to type several lines in a row now, OK?
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: NFS…………. Hi: 3.13 Lo: 1.77
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: CN…………… Hi: 2.98 Lo: 2.13
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: AM…………… Double prims: 5.12
if it were single prims: 2.56
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: LA……………. Double prims: 4.35
if it were single prims: 2.17
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: AA Alhambra…………………. 1.99
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: AA Generalife…………………. 2.06
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: and thanks to Sudane for those.
[9:57] You decline MOON FEVER/MOONTAGE (60, 138, 38) from A group member named Kourosh Eusebio.
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: what you should see is this
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: we do not have harmonized rents today
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: we may get there over time
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Are there questions about this information?
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: we woudl be bringing in AA at a lower *average* rate
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: but not radically so. Done
[9:58] Long Range: Tusitala Enoch [68m] [9:58] Soro Dagostino: Do you all understand the figures presneted?
[9:58] Jamie Palisades: when it;s convenient, Mr LRA, I will suggest that I next repsond to the Moon/Gwyn Qs about nonprofits.
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol nods understanding
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie — but lets get this down.
[9:59] Jamie Palisades nods
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn understands the figrues too â€” thank you to you and Sudane for the work in presenting them
[9:59] Close Range: Tusitala Enoch [38m] [9:59] Long Range: Tusitala Enoch [46m] [9:59] Soro Dagostino: Is there a “rule of Thumb Ratio?
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: yikes
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: meaning?
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Your average difference?
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that the difference is not HUGE anyway â€” so I’d be fine in following Pip’s suggestion: short-term, different rates are ok (mostly to speed up the process), if the goal is, mid/long-term to strive to harmonise them.
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the house?
[10:01] Sonja Strom: I think so.
[10:01] Pip Torok for the record concurs with Gwyn
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: I agree withGwyn there – and Soro, every time we try to essay an avarega CDS number we get a diff answer (chuckle, sigh)
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Cidy?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: sry.
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: I think she went RL at 10
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if not a consensus, a majority…
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I think so too, Soro
[10:03] Pip Torok: i think so too
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Ok, next question
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: sorry…
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: I’m ok with gwyn’s statement.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: and I do need to leave….so will pick this up in the transcript
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Noted, Jamie — state the issue please?
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: thank you
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm — ) Drumming fingers on the rostrum.
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: we cannot do the AA deal without the AA basis in their sim tier price. Thus, we need *a* nonprofit entity of some kind — not their current one — to continue to own those sims asn estate owner of record. So this deal onl works if we are happy having a second-tier EO and leaving a simple nonprofit inplace. That creates 3 subissues
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: (a) a handful of ceremonial incorporators — easy, I think
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: (b) someone who is willing to be the second EO, but subject to the same control by the gov’t that Sudane is today
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: and (c) us being as comfortable with that person as we are with Sudane
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: done thanks
[10:07] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: kk
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn also has one question after Arria
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[10:08] Arria Perreault: A technical question: in case of non-profit, who is the estate ownwer: the rl organisation or an individual?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: for LL
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: the indvidual
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (from LL’s PoV: an individual avatar)
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: the indviidual must TELL LL that they HAVE a nonprofit
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: but LL does not inquire much into its nature
[10:10] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — your question?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to clarify 1) The “we need *a* nonprofit to continue to own those sims” means: we would have to change the EO of the AA sims to someone who owns a non-profit, is that it? 2) The reverse issue is possible, e.g. the CDS sims be under the AA’s not-for-profit? [NOTE: I’m not actually suggesting this idea, I’m just ASKING if that would be a possibility at all] 3) Can we use “any” not-for-profit? OTOH, I know about half a dozen… I’m even president of one or two… hehe
[10:10] Jamie Palisades: may I?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or should we create one not-for-profit specifically for the CDS?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sure!)
[10:11] Jamie Palisades: this will take a minute
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:11] Jamie Palisades: (1) yes, unless we use the current EO, who is Rose.
[10:11] Jamie Palisades: (2) I don’t think so.
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (works for me
[10:12] Jamie Palisades: it woudl be possible (#@) but I thikn not wise.
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose’s the non-profit president?
[10:12] Jamie Palisades: well she is an office rof the OLD one, but for us she woudl hve to be an oficer of the NEW one.
[10:12] Jamie Palisades: may I continue?
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I’ll ask that again later hehe
[10:13] Jamie Palisades: 3
[10:13] Jamie Palisades: there’s some flexibility in what kidn of nonprofit is used, but if we pursue this plan, the simlest course seesm to me to be this:
[10:13] Jamie Palisades: (a) use a new. single purpose nonporfit in a form with whih rose is comfortable, for AA
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: that probably means a US entity by the way
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: and
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: (b) AFTER we evaluate it,. IF we want to try …
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: a second NP (that maybe ownes the first, dunno) for the rest of CDS to get the lower rate …
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: .. which i do NOT think shoud be US based
[10:15] Moon Adamant npods in assent
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: done responding to Gywn’s Qs
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Moon. Your next.
[10:15] Sonja Strom: The CDS is not really in existence to make anybody a profit.
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: ( god knows)
[10:15] Moon Adamant: Soro, my question has been fully answered already, thank you
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still have some questions… or rather… a hypothetical scenario.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: Soro, a point or order?
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: On the nonprofit issue?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: I have a practical suggetsion.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: time limits,
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: How about 5 more mins of Q,s then 10 more on AA total, then at 1030 we move to Monastery?
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Yes, I was about to do that.
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: (which will be easier, but we must get to it)
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It means we have to write faster
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, my hypothetical scenario is hypothetical, because I haven’t asked Rose’s opinion (so, Rose, feel free to yell NO)
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: I have every confidence in you Gwyn
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn your issue?
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not an issue, a question/suggestion.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s imagine that we wish to deal with AA this term still.
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: So state.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ask Rose, as representative/owner/president of the not-for-profit that runs AA,
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to become the EO of the CDS as well
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *temporarily* so
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since that would neatly deal with the issue â€” again, short-term
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: While we figure out a permanent solution.
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, would that be acceptable to you?
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then, of course, would that be acceptable to the RA?
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: :/ all of CDS? or just the AA thing?
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it.
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All of the CDS to make things easier
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, all of the CDS PLUS AA.
[10:19] Rose Springvale smiles at Gwyneth.. do i answer?
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Comments?
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Rose
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: soryr, i object even to the question as rude to Sudane, without consulting her first.
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: but hey carry on. Rudness is not a law in CDS
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be scenario #2, and the reverse question to Rose, e.g. if that would be acceptable to Rose to have Sudane own the whole of AA + CDS
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: I would suggest it is but a proposal
[10:20] Jamie Palisades smiles and shrugs
[10:20] Rose Springvale: not sure about the formalities here… do i reply or no?
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: Rose
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: You have the floor.
[10:21] Rose Springvale: First, while it may seem more simple that way Gwyneth, it actually only complicates things,
[10:21] Rose Springvale: changes of EO are transfers of sims for LL purposes
[10:21] Rose Springvale: needless cost
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so while i am i’m sure sudane are flattered in your confidence
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. True.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: i think it better to deal with the substantive issues and not worry about those details
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: ((onbe pays a chunk of money to LL for each EO transfer))
[10:22] Rose Springvale: okay?
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes, I forgot about that…
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Any more comments?
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the third scenario is, we “flash” LL a ready-made not-for-profit on Sudane’s behalf?
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Questions?
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA with 7 minuts left I will suggest that I briefly provide the REST of the points, then we see if more questions arise
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie.
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: *Gwyn, ask me later)
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, I will
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: to finish up on the AA deal possibility:
[10:24] Soro Dagostino: Type fast Jamie
[10:24] Soro Dagostino:
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: 2. AA has four “homestead” voids. Albaycin, Sacramonte, Garnata and Almunecar. Each has a break-even tenant (though one is being paid by donations). Those tenants all would be willing to work with us on terraforming to serve as the “transition” simes between the main two AA sims and the body of CDS. The Guild;’s old GMP and more recent proposed amendments so not yet officially “siet” AA somewhere, but the principles make it clear that there should be some visual and topologic transition between themes — consider how our Alpine Meadows sim helps the Alpine NFS theme flow into CN. Over on the other (North and East) sidea of CN we have city walls; to the West of LA we have water; to there are multiple options for transition.
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: AA wants us to take on the rented break-even sims as a condition to the deal. If we have the right to reposition and gently modify terraforming on them, I think we should, solving both our transition issue … and the plan we were disussing to buy some voids ANYWAY to improve the scenic flow.
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: 3. The position of AA on the CDS map is an issue. Some GUild folks spontanrously suggested that we plunk AA down several sims to the West on the other side of a new Ocean, with noncontiguous land. That did not go over well in AA; I think they want to be PART of our community if they are here, which includes being ably to easily traverse from theme to theme.
[10:25] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: Wait please
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: almost done
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: I would like to invite the Guild .. with a time deadline .. to take available data, including such land data as AA has (which I am not sure includes RAW fiels, but can be modelled from tools applied to the land) to suggest at least TWO positions for the 2 main sims and four voids, on land continguous to our current land mass. If the deadlines passes, I propose to commission for the work to be done instead.
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: finally,
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: 4. , as to politics, you saw my suggestions about bringing AA into the current RA/citizenship structure, market stalls and all, in my last report. After some thought, and chats, I believe that the AA folks find those proposals acceptable, So I don’t have anything to add there.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: thanks.
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Moon you have the floor.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: summary – yes, the voids are in the deal; we need to find a map position; and yes, AA would be part of CDS, not re-do anythign constitutuional
[10:27] Moon Adamant: Thank you
[10:28] Long Range: Conny Halsey [47m] [10:28] Moon Adamant: The Guild has constityued a workgroup to deal with the formulation of our General Master Plan
[10:28] Moon Adamant: in order to encompass several subjects
[10:28] Moon Adamant: of which the location of AA aas regards the overall CDS territory is one.
[10:29] Moon Adamant: Sadly, the process has been a bit rough
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: The result?
[10:29] Moon Adamant: and atm, the WG has decided not to contemplate the AA territory into the plan
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: Time is approaching.
[10:29] Moon Adamant: I ask the RA now
[10:29] Moon Adamant: and teh Chacellor
[10:30] Moon Adamant: if this is a formal request to teh workgroup to re-include AA in our study
[10:30] Moon Adamant: thank you
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: I suggest 30 days: [10:26] Jamie Palisades: I would like to invite the Guild .. with a time deadline .. to take available data, including such land data as AA has (which I am not sure includes RAW fiels, but can be modelled from tools applied to the land) to suggest at least TWO positions for the 2 main sims and four voids, on land continguous to our current land mass
[10:30] Pip Torok: moon when you say not are yo meaning “never”?
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: and let me ask both Moon and Rose if that is sensible?
[10:31] Moon Adamant: Pip, for the moment being
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: I have a comment
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn has a positive comment too
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: (Pip, she just meant that the Guild voted not to officially find a place for AA YET)
[10:31] Pip Torok: understood
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: (they were waiting for RA i think, thus this meeting)
[10:31] Moon Adamant: i would gladly, as chair of that wg, have a formal request for re-introducing the AA question
[10:32] Sonja Strom: I think if the citizens of AA want to join with the CDS, they will want to work together with us on how to plan.
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: It seems to me, that keeping AA away from CDS is a deal breaker.
[10:32] Moon Adamant: uh, Sonja, by representation, i hope
[10:32] Jamie Palisades nods at Soro
[10:32] Rose Springvale: when it’s my turn
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i’ll reply
[10:32] Rose Springvale:
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Rose
[10:33] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: If they don’t want to work together with us on it, then that is their decision to make.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: Al Andalus is ready, willing and able to work with CDS.
[10:33] Pip Torok: but do we know that for a fact?
[10:33] Rose Springvale: the sooner the better
[10:33] Rose Springvale: yes we do Pip
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Rose.
[10:34] Pip Torok: (my Q was directed to sonja for the record:)
[10:34] Moon Adamant: can i ask you then if tyou would officially represent AA in the GMP workgroup, then, Rose?
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus of house to adopt the suggestion of Jamie on planning out 30 days?
[10:34] Rose Springvale: and yes, all estate owners have raw files. Yes of course moon, but not thursdays at 1 pm
[10:34] Pip Torok: i would consent …
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: I think that is an issue that is not on the floor.
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: Set it out 30 days for study?
[10:35] Moon Adamant: a bit tight, but i think the Wg can make it
[10:35] Sonja Strom: The AA sims could join together with the CDS right now, and then the planning issues could be considered together as a community.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: Rose? 30 days fast enough? Moon? 30 days or we go outside Guild? Works for me.
[10:36] Moon Adamant: er no Sonja, i object to that
[10:36] Rose Springvale: 30 days stretches me
[10:36] Rose Springvale: as too long. but i’m okay
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: 45?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: no 15
[10:36] Sonja Strom: I am not saying it would have to be that way, but it could be.
[10:36] Moon Adamant: the GMP is a framework and all adittions to the territory must be made in accordance to it
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Oh! kk
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My only comment was really to congratulate the Chancellor’s proposal â€” politically, I totally agree with it, although I understand there will be some technical issues (for the Guild) and financial ones (for the treasury). But politically, aye, this was the kind of proposal this noble and august house has been expecting, and I thank the Chancellor for it
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: well, rose if 15-20 days in there is no action, I will start to take steps so we get an answer in 30 days either way, then..
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus to move it to committee?
[10:37] Rose Springvale:
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on the technical issues, Soro
[10:37] Sonja Strom: But Moon, right now AA does not fit into the GMP framework at all.
[10:37] Pip Torok: yes as far as im concerned
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Hold please . . .
[10:37] Moon Adamant: that’s why we are studying it
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: That goes to the committee.
[10:37] Jamie Palisades looks around at the noble and august murals ,, and the clock
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: That is the order of the chair — unless you oppose.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: and they bring back two options on continguous land to the RA – and AA
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Included.
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Monastery
[10:38] Pip Torok breathes sigh of relief
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: Proposal?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clarification â€” are we talking about the current Guild Workgroup on the GMP, or a new Committee (from the RA) to study the AA/CDS merger?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah sorry, Soro
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
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Re: RA meeting 19 April 2009 TRANSCRIPT (two parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:35 pm
Soro Dagostino:I think it is in Jamies proposal
Jamie Palisades:i thought (per my text aboev) we were asking guild to propose two locations, with certain constraints, to be brought back here in four weeks
Gwyneth Llewelyn:Ok, Jamie, that’s clear then. thank you
Soro Dagostino:As to AA/CDS.
Soro Dagostino:Moving to Monastery
Soro Dagostino:Proposal?
Jamie Palisades::)
Jamie Palisades:shorter, happily
Jamie Palisades:let me just lead off by sharing with you this correspondence from the proposers.
Jamie Palisades:Dear Mr. Chancellor,
As Curator of the Monastery, I confirm you my interest in the opening of a homestead sim to install the Monastery. I confirm also that the selling of the current Monastery plot in Alpine Meadow can be used to finance this project. Doing that, I don’t have to buy the plot for the Monastery on the new sim, but only pay fees like now. The plot of the Monastery on the new sim will have almost the same number of prims than on the current sim (1404). 6 other plots of 234 prims will be available for sale and future owners will get the CDS citizenship. The rest of prims will be used for landscape, infrastructure and also as public reserve for special projects, like exhibitions or events. Their use is managed by the executif branch of CDS.

The Curator of the Monastery and the CDS have to make an agreement about the way the current plot of the Monastery on Alpine Meadow will be set for sale. I would suggest an exchange of land, as the CDS maybe intends to redesign the plot of Alpine Meadow
Jamie Palisades:… Monastery on Alpine Meadow will be set for sale. I would suggest an exchange of land, as the CDS maybe intends to redesign the plot of Alpine Meadow and to transform it in several small plots.

I also confirm that I am ready to pay the fees (based on CDS average prim price) of the 6 other plots for 4 months since the opening of the new sim, if they don’t have an owner in this period of time. I will pay them at my own expense and not with the money of Virtus.

My proposal for fees on the new sim is here (based on prim price)
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key
[color=Sienna][i]Jamie Palisades:…My offer is valid if:
– the new sim is an homestead sim
– the new sim is situated south to Locus Amoenus and west to Alpine Meadow. I have already contacted people working on GMP in order to make the proposal compatible.[
– the name of the new sim includes the term Monastery. As definitive name, I suggest “Second Monastery”
Arria Perreault
Curator of the Monastery
Alpine Meadow, April 6th 2009
Jamie Palisades:—
Jamie Palisades:done
Soro Dagostino:Any discussion?
Jamie Palisades:I propose, essentially, that we accept. To be specific:
Jamie Palisades:1. CDS would buy the homestead sim, south to Locus Amoenus. On our account, but knowing that we have a tenant guarantee already lined up.
2. Double prim land with 7 seven plots, using the design that has been posted for some time now.
Jamie Palisades:Exact covenant to be written, but fairly close to the spirit of the AM covenant.
3. Virtus will do the terraforming and amenities for us, subject to our usual government signoffs, without cost. CDS will carry one month of tier without tenant rent.
Jamie Palisades:4. CDS will swap the current (AM) Monastery land for the new plot, and CDS will sell the old Monastery land on AM. We will seek consultation with Guild for 30 days on whether to re-zone that AM plot.
Jamie Palisades:…
Jamie Palisades:.. and done, except to note that I believethat the Monastery and AA proposals shouel not be done at different times.
Jamie Palisades:s a courtesy to both of our long-suffering proposers.
Pip Torok:i second jamies proposal
Soro Dagostino:So you want a postponement for 30 days?
Rose Springvale:/me raises hand
Soro Dagostino:Referral to the Guild for consulatation?
Soro Dagostino:Rose.
Jamie Palisades:i think we shoujld giveb Arria the couresty of a statement of intent now, but yes Soro.
Moon Adamant:ready if needed
Soro Dagostino:Pip — you are the member of the RA
Soro Dagostino:Jamie cannnot make motions.
Pip Torok:understood
Jamie Palisades:/me nods
Rose Springvale:/me waits
Soro Dagostino:Is it the consesus of the house to move the proposal to the committee for consulatation?
Soro Dagostino:Wait . . . sorry — Rose?
Sonja Strom:I am in favour of the proposal.
Pip Torok:it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn:(the committee being the Guild Workgroup, right? )
Rose Springvale:actually, that’s better. wanted to comment on homesteads
Gwyneth Llewelyn:If so, yes, I vote aye
Jamie Palisades:/me mulls this over – I think Guild already has done their job on this one, but ask them)
Pip Torok:aye
Rose Springvale:ah, if that’s the case, i’ve a coment
Soro Dagostino:Yes Rose.
Rose Springvale:As you all know, homestead sims have 1/4 of the prims of a regular sim
Rose Springvale:they also have a 20 avatar limit
Rose Springvale:and will eventually have script limits
Soro Dagostino:Hmmmm, that might be changed.
Rose Springvale:in June, the tier cost for homesteads increases from 95 to 125, which arria has accounted for
Rose Springvale:i dont’ think so
Rose Springvale:but what i wanted to say
Rose Springvale:is this… i’ve had occasion this week to hold what we expected to be a minor event on a homestead sim
Rose Springvale:and had avatars get that nasty “region full ” message
Jamie Palisades:this was Xinoxi’s new AA Library?
Arria Perreault:can I answer?
Rose Springvale:I’m of the opinion that this project, and CDS, would be better served by placing it on a full prim sim
Rose Springvale:yes
Pip Torok:it was
Soro Dagostino:Arria
Jamie Palisades:/me raises hand but AFTER Arria and Rose
Moon Adamant:raises hand fater Jamie
Moon Adamant:after* .)
Arria Perreault:ty
Arria Perreault:about events first: the Monastery doesnt organise many events and works with regular traffic. I know the limits of a homestead.
Arria Perreault:about fees: I know also that fact. Jamie asked me to calculate rates on the basis of the CDS average prims-price
Arria Perreault:that’s what I did
Rose Springvale:/me raises hand again
Arria Perreault:I have also set another price in my spreadsheet
Soro Dagostino:Thank you Arria —
Arria Perreault:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key
Soro Dagostino:Rose.
Arria Perreault:so we can have a balance
Soro Dagostino:Time folk . . .
Arria Perreault:I have a last remark about homestead
Soro Dagostino:Brief?
Arria Perreault:they have to be seen in the GMP
Moon Adamant:/me raises hand again
Arria Perreault:I have shown last year thhat CDS can finance some homestead in the GMP
Soro Dagostino:Time
Soro Dagostino:Rose
Arria Perreault:done
Rose Springvale:i’m not questioning calculations at all.. only that i think, given costs.,. CDS would be better served by having that sim be afull sim.. it is strategically located between two full prim high uses sims. even if CDS keps the extras as public
Arria Perreault:all is in the forums
Soro Dagostino:Can that be discussed in committee?
Soro Dagostino:Jamie?
Jamie Palisades:I was in queue but maybe we take this to guild for the 30 days?
Soro Dagostino:Then Moon.
Moon Adamant:i would like nevertheless to make a technical remark for teh record
Soro Dagostino:Be brief
Moon Adamant:ok
Jamie Palisades:then I’ll put my question our, maybe for later resolution.
Moon Adamant:The Guild is aware of the Monastery proposal in all its detail
Moon Adamant:as To Rose’s objection
Moon Adamant:i would like to comment
Moon Adamant:that in a consolidated, organized territory
Soro Dagostino:It can be done during the committee discussions?
Moon Adamant:not all sims need necessarily tio have exact characteristics
Soro Dagostino:We are off topic.
Moon Adamant:for instance, AM was planned without a public gathering space
Moon Adamant:no, we aren’t
Soro Dagostino:The issue is to go to committee
Soro Dagostino:That is what was asked.
Jamie Palisades:/me nods. Soro, I’ll save mine for a Guild posting — but plan to back here for resolution in 30 days regardless.
Moon Adamant:/me bows and shuts up
Soro Dagostino:Thank you.
Soro Dagostino:That ends the Agenda .
Soro Dagostino:Motion to Adjourn?
Rose Springvale:excetp.. ahem
Rose Springvale:noooooo
Rose Springvale:lol
Jamie Palisades:what? anouncements?
Sonja Strom:lol
Rose Springvale:as i stated in the beginning!
Soro Dagostino:Ahhhh — ok Rose.
Rose Springvale:smile
Soro Dagostino:Sorry.
Rose Springvale:Two GREAT things coming up
Rose Springvale:NEXT week, on Sunday, the To Limani greek project opens in LA
Gwyneth Llewelyn::)
Moon Adamant:yay
Rose Springvale:That group has a full day of live music planned
Rose Springvale:and i want to encourage everyone to go support it. they’ve worked very hard, and its gorgeous!
Rose Springvale:Second!
Rose Springvale:on April 30, there will be a Queens day celebration in AM
Jamie Palisades:Ahem – Queen’s Birthday?
Jamie Palisades::D
Gwyneth Llewelyn:A Queens day?….
Rose Springvale:sponsoreed by Rudo, Ria, Naftali
Gwyneth Llewelyn:/me *scratches head*
Rose Springvale:for the netherlands
Gwyneth Llewelyn:AH
Arria Perreault:which Queen?
Moon Adamant:ahhhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn:hehe
Rose Springvale:as part of that
Jamie Palisades:Queen of the Nederlands
Rose Springvale:they wil have a “flea market”
Jamie Palisades:not Queen of Pundits, dear, sorry
Rose Springvale:so you can sell old things on tables on the streets of LA
Gwyneth Llewelyn:Don’t tell me Her Majesty created an avatar…
Rose Springvale:smile
Rose Springvale:w/e
Gwyneth Llewelyn:/me smiles @ Jamie
Rose Springvale:its music and drinking the way i’ve got it lol
Soro Dagostino:Is there more Rose?
Rose Springvale:i’ve a poster here, i’ll rez, but again please support
Jamie Palisades:well Nafi told me she’d invite HRH Juliana; we’ll see
Rose Springvale:and one last thing
Soro Dagostino:Yes.
Sonja Strom:What about ThePrincess?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:Sonja !!!!
Jamie Palisades:Beatrix?
Rose Springvale:Today is the last day of the Al Andalus Feria, and we’ve set up a welcome tent for the CDS
Moon Adamant:
Soro Dagostino:Rose?
Rose Springvale:so please join us if you can for horses, bull riding, flamenco, and fireworks
Rose Springvale:yes?
Soro Dagostino:Done?
Rose Springvale:now i am, yes, thanks
Soro Dagostino:A motion to adjourn is in order.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:I second that…
Pip Torok:the queen is Juliana btw jamie (not the present one!)
Soro Dagostino:Is there is a second?
Jamie Palisades:/me smiles
Soro Dagostino:Pip?
Pip Torok:seconded
Soro Dagostino:All in favor?
Pip Torok:aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn:aye
Soro Dagostino:aye
Sonja Strom:aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 17 May 2009

RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:42 pm
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Ok everybody.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Its time — we have a quorum
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[9:13] Sonja Strom: yay
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: The Agenda is posted.
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: and also in the ball underneath the table
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you said you posted the proposed bills — I cannot find them
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn would love to see them too
[9:14] Jamie Palisades: hm hang on
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
[9:14] Jamie Palisades: (sim and city planning thread)
[9:15] Jamie Palisades: but will post the URLs here
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Not the Exec?
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: REcorder is working?
[9:16] Cindy Ecksol: recorder is running
[9:16] Jamie Palisades: monastery here -> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2395#p13241
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Will every one please consent to recording?
[9:16] Pip Torok: do we need to touch the recorder?
[9:16] Jamie Palisades: Al Andalus here -> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I think you do.
[9:16] Pip Torok: I consent
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I consent
[9:16] Sonja Strom: I consent
[9:17] Brian Livingston: I consent
[9:17] Jamie Palisades: and I consent (I never could myself find one of those boxes that works well , Soro, but Gwyn may know of a source)
[9:17] Cindy Ecksol: consent
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn consents and smiles
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: I tried to buy one — nada.
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh gosh
[9:17] Pip Torok: where is the recorder?
[9:17] Cindy Ecksol: I have the code for this one, keep meaning to find the time to make it better
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol: it’s the black box under the table Pip
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Ok, you all have the Agenda?
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:18] Pip Torok: Thanks Cindy
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Are there any changes to the Agenda?
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might grumble a bit, Mr LRA…
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: I note that Jamie has posted the bills for AA and Monastery.
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMh do we have the transcript from last session?
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was looking at the forums for it…
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, I’m pretty sure that on point III we would do discussion AND approval.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. approving Jamie’s proposed bills
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: I do. I made a log from Chat. But its in a file on my laptop — and I don’t know how to give it to you all.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see…
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: I promised to help Soro with that after this meeting
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: At the time I prepared the Agenda — I didn’t have the bills.
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we did plan to approve them anyway, even without them But ok. Since the two bills, for all purposes, are the approval of the discussions on point III,
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Motion to amend the Agenda to include an action item — approval of bills?
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with the agenda, assuming we *will* discuss and vote Jamie’s bills
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: motion
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second
[9:23] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Any discussion?
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:23] Pip Torok: aye
[9:24] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:24] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:24] Jamie Palisades: (afk a sec – teapot)
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooops
[9:24] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, the aye was for “in favour” of curse
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *course even
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[9:24] Sonja Strom often has what she says fall into a different place than intended
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[9:25] Cindy Ecksol loves the unexpected meanings
[9:25] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Who would like to speak to the motions?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: RA members and guest?
[9:26] Cindy Ecksol: you mean the agenda items, Soro?
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Slight question, we *will* discuss them a bit in III 1. b. and III 2. b., right?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes Gwyn
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, well, I’ll talk about it then
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: ok…sorry, I misunderstood — you’re just looking for a list of interested parties right now
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: jamie, would that include you?
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: He is pouring tea.
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: ok — probably should assume that he’s on you rlist then
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Ok, last Admin item on Agenda — Next meeting on 5/31. Any objections?
[9:29] Jamie Palisades smiles.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should be around, so no objections
[9:30] Sonja Strom: I do not have an objection, but will not be able to be there,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[9:30] Sonja Strom: so request a 7-day vote for anything that is voted on.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Ok, that is the day.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Lets move to Chancellor’s comments or report.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please!
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Are you going to give the report?
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me??? lol no
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: Thank you. Better Q & A this month, I think More interested in answering any questions you have, than the usual blather SO if Gwyn has questions, let’s go with them
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… my only questions will be on III 1 b) and 2 b)
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol smiles and waits.
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Most of what I know that’s new, with one exception, will come up under later agenda items here, also.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, if I have the opportunity, a rumour has reached my ears that Port Spinoza was interested in a similar arrangement as we now have drafted for AA….
[9:33] Cindy Ecksol: just waiting for you to move on, Soro
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there is anything we can hear about it, I’d love to!
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Right then. Port Spinoza, and SLBA.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Briefly.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: You will recall we talked last mtg about SL Bar Association.
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: We’ve apporachd them; they are weighing options’ we are in the running.
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: I might add that one issue for them is taking free space form an RL law firm — sort of a politics issue.
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: *from
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: so, when we hear more, I will have more to report
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: May or may not happen. Did you have any further impression on that one, Soro?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: The Bar Board has to decide.
[9:36] Jamie Palisades: OK<> Port Spinoza
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Rose did sent a letter.
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: To the Bar board
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: To the Port?
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: Yes. You can look up the sim name “Port Spinoza” — it is another historical themed sim – generally of the kind we’ve pursued.
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: It is part of the Cedar Island estate
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering if we were just talking about Port Spinoza, or the whole Cedar Island estate?
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: so, like SLNE, AA, and others, it is one of thjose projects (grin) that a CDS resident launched when they deicided they wanted to do their own thing and/or make money at it
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: we’re rather good at birthing profit for other people
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[9:38] Pip Torok: good question gwyn … if its a funding issue it may well involve both!
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: Here is what you sgould know about P.S. for now
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh yes, Pip
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: 1. No formal talks
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: 2. Just auggestion make reently, which may result in a chat with the estate owner
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: 3. Propobably only involve sthe sim of that name and the next one to the South on the map
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: 4. I understand they originalyl were designed IN ORDER TO fit in with CDS
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: 5. No data on financial feasibility yet
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Who did them?
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: and finally 6. I think we woudl be best advised to finish whatever we do with the current two proposals first.
[9:40] Pip Torok: Jon i believe
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: Jon Seattle
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: and his friends
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: thanks.
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: roughly, our Guild
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: but premature to say more than “go look” and “maybe they’ll be interested”
[9:40] You decline MOON FEVER/MOONGLAS (188, 188, 30) from A group member named Russell Eponym.
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: done
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Ok, any more on the Port?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with 6 too â€” the question was more to understand if, at this stage, the RA ought to get the Guild do a change of the Masterplan in antecipation of those talks, or if it’s still premature.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: We have no assetn from Jon yet, butof I get one I will ask the Guild
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Cindy
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Jamie! Thanks.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: Masterplans do not get changed every time we have a new opportunity
[9:41] Moon Adamant: hello all
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh “take a look” then
[9:42] Pip Torok: hi Moon …
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol: they are intended to form a framework and then be updated when something happens
[9:42] Moon Adamant: consent to be recorded
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol: but that’s a discussion for another time and place…
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Welcome
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: The GMP assumes some new themes; this would be one; as the plan anticipates; some terrforming assessment would always be needed
[9:42] Jamie Palisades:
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol agrees with Jamie
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, good, so that’s one problem less to worry about.
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan — Item III, 1
[9:43] Jamie Palisades smile s- may I say a few words for level-setting?
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please!
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Gwyn
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: YOu have the floor Jamie.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: We have there maps, for AA+CDS, all with proponents, and all approved by the Guild as feasible. I suspect most of you have seen the display copies in CN. AA also has a set – and they too like them and differ internally
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: *three
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: it remains for the RA to accept the recommendation of the guild …
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: to approve all 3, or less than all 3 if you folks want to oush it in one direction.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: .. then AA will need to do the same.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: You also have revised legislation to enact them.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: About which we can talk more if you like. Done. Perhaps Moon should present the Guild’s report here?
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, please explain
[9:46] Jamie Palisades looks a question?
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Revised Legislation?
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: Ag,
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: OK. Two RA acts are required, minimum
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Is that what is before the body?
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: 1. Majorsim map issues are the RA’
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: ss jurisdiction
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: so you must act on the Guild’s recommendation
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: and
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: buying or taking a sim is too
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: so you must act on some kind of mrger, if there is to be one
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: Later?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: My draft bill from a month ago received comments …
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: From Pat, right?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: notably from AA, but also others
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Gwyn.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: so I have changed it, and it is posted here ->
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13240
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: and Pat’s question is here
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I hope we can answer it too
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: which we could discuss if you like
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please!
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to approve.
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Soro â€” I’d like to clarify at least the issue of “double citizenship and double votes”
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: still, my advice woudl be a. hear Moon, b, approve maps, c. debate merger motion
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose Jamie’s ‘advice’ as a motion
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: get the “low hanging fruit”
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Then we can discuss the issue.
[9:49] Brian Livingston: Request: Cna we get the maps displayed in this chamber before the vote?
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Moon?
[9:50] Moon Adamant: what i am looking for
[9:50] Moon Adamant: yes, just a sec
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: not sure what exactly the motion is
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: for a particular bill?
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: The first one.
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: AA
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: ok, second
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Discussion . . in order.
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Moon —
[9:52] Moon Adamant: yes?
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: A presentation as the proponent
[9:52] Moon Adamant: ok
[9:52] Moon Adamant: so hmmmm
[9:52] Moon Adamant: first of all it’s important to understand that the AA terrian is continuos and an unity
[9:53] Moon Adamant: with exception of the void Almunecar
[9:53] Moon Adamant: Also, it is important to know that the void Al Garnata has building of a classic design
[9:54] Moon Adamant: for that reason, we chose Al Garnata alqways to be the ‘hinge’ by which the two territories are joined
[9:54] Moon Adamant: almunecar being placed wherever it best suits the plan
[9:54] Moon Adamant: in option 1 (bottom lefT)
[9:54] Moon Adamant: which is perhaps the most economic solution
[9:54] Moon Adamant: al garnata is placed north of LA
[9:55] Moon Adamant: and Almunecar – which can be completelly terraformed – is placed north of CN
[9:55] Moon Adamant: the comunication is via cardo
[9:55] Sonja Strom: Cardo?
[9:55] Moon Adamant: this option assumes that in time we will do a pelagic band and that the sim next to Alhambra will give it a coastline
[9:56] Moon Adamant: sorry, Decumanum
[9:56] Pip Torok: the north2southstreet in CN Sonja
[9:56] Pip Torok: sorry!
[9:56] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[9:57] Moon Adamant: Proposal two alsos uses the connection through the decumanum, but in this case directly through CN-Al Garnata
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Any more?
[9:57] Moon Adamant: yes, please bear with me
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: of course
[9:58] Moon Adamant: almunecar is placed to give Alhambra its coastline on thi s map – but it could be placed anywhere else
[9:58] Moon Adamant: Proposal 3 makes the connection thrugh the Cardo (E-W main road in CN
[9:59] Moon Adamant: and connects directly with Al garnata and the alhambra village. Again, almunecar is placed where we want
[9:59] Moon Adamant: this proposal needs
[9:59] Moon Adamant: a vertical band (in terms of north-south) of two sims wide
[9:59] Moon Adamant: one to continue to expand teh roman cluster, and the other to work as a transitional space
[10:00] Moon Adamant: in the other options
[10:00] Moon Adamant: 1 and 2
[10:00] Moon Adamant: the roamn cluster expands E-W
[10:00] Moon Adamant: while AA can expand mainly N and E
[10:00] Moon Adamant: doubts?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: How should we proceed?
[10:01] Moon Adamant: well
[10:02] Moon Adamant: the Guild has approve dthe feasibility of the three solutions
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understand, for now, the RA ought to approve these three
[10:02] Moon Adamant: and so brings them to RA for approval
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Is that the motion?
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol: point oforder soro?
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure (or rather, I second Jamie, who suggested the same)
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Cindy
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol: I think we need TWO motions
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: first motion to approve merger with AA
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Ok?
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: second motion to pick a plan
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh I see
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: hm
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: could do in either order
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: after all, if we don’t agree to the merger, there will be no plan
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: and my preference woudl be to approve all three, but with a ranking
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, very logically so
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: well, true jamie — but then if second motion fails, the first is….hanging
[10:03] Jamie Palisades shrugs, smiles, however you like
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: but I’m not hung up on that.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: shall I propose thefirst motion?
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Cindy are you making a motion to sever the question?
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: if the will of the RA is to agree with the Guild you smiply could appprove the maps subject to the merger occurring
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: ah, that would work too…
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: That is the motion on the flooor.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: yes, soro, I think we need to or we’ll spend forever on this
[10:04] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Already before the body
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: wait….what?
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: (there ya go)
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami raises had to ask speak when you get to discussing merger with AA
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready for the vote.
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: wait!
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: what IS the motion????
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: (just checking, i THINK this is a vote to appprove the maps subject to the merger occurring)
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: )per the Guild’s recommendation)
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Yes — that is what I understand.
[10:05] Sonja Strom has looked for the motion and does not see it having been made
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *hope* that’s the motion hehe
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: no….
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: no such motion was made
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: that was a suggestion from jamie
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: can we start over please?
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: I thought i seconded a motion to sever the question
[10:06] Jamie Palisades chuckles, well I cant make motions here, thank god, so someone get to it or come up with something else
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps I MADE a motion to sever the question
(continued below)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
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Re: RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:44 pm
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion: to approve the GMP as proposed by the Guild, subject to the merger with AA to go ahead.
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Wait one please.
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Trying to find the motion
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: I know we had one. Discussion and presentaiton followed.
[10:08] Jamie Palisades: ((I;m goign to boldly suggestin that cindy was right, there was none, until Gwyn spoke, and so now hers is in order if seconded)
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: yes, to discuss the AA billl…
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: but I made a motion to sever that question
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: [10:04] Soro Dagostino: Cindy are you making a motion to sever the question?
[10:04] Palisades: if the will of the RA is to agree with the Guild you smiply could appprove the maps subject to the merger occurring
[10:04] Ecksol: ah, that would work too…
[10:04] Dagostino: That is the motion on the flooor.
[10:08] Jamie Palisades: ahhhhhhh
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: so are we severing or not? that seems to be the motion
[10:09] Jamie Palisades smiles, thanks Jupiter, Zeus and Demeter that he is no longer LRA
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: No severeance — no motion
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami:
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: ok, let’s try this again.
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: I move that we SEVER the question: vote separately on the plans and then on the merger
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: What I thougt was a motion was not.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconds Cindy’s motion.
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: thank you.
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[10:10] You decline Blues Fabrik Sternberg LIVE Musi, Xenosaur (76, 139, 47) from A group member named RogerPaul Loon.
[10:10] Pip Torok: i move to vote
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Call the question. Second?
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: yes
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pip â€” no need to discuss that
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: all in favor.
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:11] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:11] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: great
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Opposed
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Motion carries.
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Adoption of Maps?
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move that we approve the plans for AA presented by Guild subject to approval of the merger by RA
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that
[10:11] Pip Torok: second
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: REady for the question?
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: discussion, please
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Than Gwyn
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: do we want to approve all of the plans, and if so who choose the final plan
[10:12] Sonja Strom: What does it mean that we “approve all of the plans”?
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol nods
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Moon?
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: sonja, seems to me that it would mean that someone else would decide which of the three would be implemented
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn withdraws her need to talk, Cindy asked the very same question I had
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: we can cede that responsibility if we wish…..but I’m not sure that’s the right thing to do
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum?
[10:13] Brian Livingston thinks Cindy read several minds with that question
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Brian and agrees
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: do the residents of AA have a preference for one plan or another?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand they have their own set
[10:14] Sonja Strom: A referendum question could make sense in this case.
[10:14] Moon Adamant: have no idea who approves the final plan, but i suppose AA must be consulted as wel in this stage
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: may I answer cindy?
[10:14] Brian Livingston: I would imagien it falls to the executive unless the RA steps in.
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Perhaps if 1) We choose to have AA join us,
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: I believe the three plans were “generally apporved”
[10:15] Sonja Strom: and 2) AA chooses to join us,
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Then were to be submitted to AA for review and choice.
[10:15] Jamie Palisades waits for sonja to finish
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
[10:16] Sonja Strom: we could have a referendum question for the next election that would ask the citizens of all 10 sims where they would like the geographic joining to be.
[10:16] Sonja Strom: done, thanks
[10:16] Jamie Palisades raises hand
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: 3 things.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: to cindy:
[10:16] Moon Adamant: hmmm our referendum laws do not apply on AA
[10:16] Jamie Palisades waits
[10:16] Moon Adamant: just a comment, sorry
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Jamie you have the floor.
[10:17] Sonja Strom: Moon, if the AA sims join the CDS, then the CDS laws will apply to them.
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: Thank you, first to cindy’s Q:
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: I got a detailed report AA residents were opinated and euqally spit, just like ours
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Sonja — please wait for Jamie.
[10:17] Sonja Strom: (Here I am not talking about the geographic joining of sims, which for me is a little bit different)
[10:17] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: *equally split,( chuckle)
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: so
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: THEIR decision
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: would be made according to their process
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: which is consensus ratified by the EO
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: now, to sonja;s Q:
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: I advice against a raucuous referendum on this topic
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: it;s not a yes or no
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: not easily driven to decision in a vote
[10:18] Sonja Strom: I think maybe there is a misunderstanding about what I am saying.
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: perhaps
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: let me make my third and last point
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: here is what I ask you to consider doing
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: four steps
[[10:19] Jamie Palisades: 1. RA approves maps today — or fewer than 3 if you disagree with the Guild
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Motion 1
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: 2. This becomes part of our offer to AA, and they can accept or reject
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Motion 2
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: 3. if they accept one, we are done; if not, then we are back to multiple mutually acceptable choices
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: in which case
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: 4. it comes back here – because major map changes are your competency, senators, not mine
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[10:20] Cindy Ecksol: thank you for clarifying the process you expect to follow, jamie
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: The LRA believes the Motions are two.
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: subject to your approval !
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: Approval ov the Guild’s plans.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Approval of their being presented to AA for review and approval of one plan.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Is that the sense of the body?
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: soro, where do you see Jamie’s “merger proposal” coming into this?
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: we still have to deal with the “politics” as well as the plans
[10:23] Sonja Strom: I would like to explain more what I was talking about before.
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re supposed to settle the politics
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And please, Sonja, I’d like to hear you…
[10:23] Cindy Ecksol: yes….but neither Soro nor Jamie addressed that issue
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mean, aren’t they?
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[10:23] Sonja Strom: I don’t see the maps as crucial to the AA sims joining us. They can join the CDS and then we can decide how and when the sims would be joined geographically.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: From what Jamie said I guess we could have a map be included in the process of approval of the AA sims joining the CDS. That is one option. However, I don’t see that as necessary.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: They could join with us politically without joining geographically at first, and then we could decide on the geographic joining together as one larger community.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: done, thanks
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: Sonja, the problem is that AA won’t join unless they know what the plans are that we’re willing to go along with
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: If I may, sonja, yes, AA’s EO rejected that option.
[10:24] Pip Torok: quite sonja!
[10:24] Sonja Strom: Ah, ok
[10:24] Sonja Strom: I didn’t know that.
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: *smiles*
[10:25] Moon Adamant: i have a technical doubt which is i don’t know if our election software is prepared for other than yes/no questions at referenda
[10:25] Sonja Strom: So the AA sims are requiring a map as a part of the offer for them to join us.
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: can’t blame them — I wouldn’t want to turn over my sims for unspecified terraforming either
[10:25] Moon Adamant: quite:-)
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: so there IS a motion on the table:
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: [10:11] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move that we approve the plans for AA presented by Guild subject to approval of the merger by RA
[10:11] Llewelyn seconds that
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: are we ready to vote on that?
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: I don’t know.
[10:26] Pip Torok: I think we are rteady to vote on that
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would be… because Sonja’s most excellent suggestion can still be used if we have three proposals and AA has to pick one of them
[10:27] Sonja Strom: I am wondering when you say “we approve the plans,” this means we approve of all three of them?
[10:27] Moon Adamant: would be nice
[10:27] Pip Torok: we mean exactly that imo sonja
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: I understand the motion to mean that the RA would accept any of the three, if AA expressed a sole preference for one,
[10:27] Sonja Strom: So AA would be who makes the decision?
[10:27] Cindy Ecksol: in conjuncton with the exec
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. No
[10:27] Sonja Strom: Which plan to chose?
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: so yes to sonja
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: after all it;s a two party, two step decision
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, yes to Sonja
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We give three choices, they pick one.
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:28] You decline Rancho Pacifico Resort Marina Front Entrance from A group member named Harper Messmer.
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s reasonable. They rely on us to do the planning work and have confidence; but they make the last call. I like it.
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: OR they may come back with something else that we will have to evaluate
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True
[10:29] Moon Adamant: hope not
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: And if they do, we agree to merger?
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: no….
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: we haven’t done that yet….
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: let’s vote on this first
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: there is some discussion on the BIG bill…
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: That is a call for the question?
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: please
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees with Cindy! This is juat a *minor* issue, so I second
[10:30] Brian Livingston: Please restate the motion, for the sake of clarity.
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:11] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move that we approve the plans for AA presented by Guild subject to approval of the merger by RA
[10:11] Llewelyn seconds that
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn got it
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?/
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:30] Pip Torok: aye
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[10:31] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: Oppposed?
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn points out the long silence
[10:32] Sonja Strom is not opposed
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bravo!
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move to adopt Jamie’s Al Andalus bill as proposed in the forum: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[10:32] Brian Livingston: I have concerns, so discussion requested
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Second
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: needs a second
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes. Not without discussion.
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — is that a second?
[10:33] Moon Adamant deletes the maps
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would move to discuss a LOT first
[10:33] Jamie Palisades: ready to discuss when you are
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course,
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy just wants to adopt it in *general*
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with which I would agree
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: I just want to put it on th etable, guys.
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: can we have a second please?
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second on that assumption, Cindy
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: good, let’s discuss!
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES!
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Discussion.
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Soro, shall I start with Pat’s posted questions?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mr LRA, I know you called earlier who wished to speak on this,
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: As I think a lof of other aspects, we talked about before
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you are the proponent.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but neither Pat nor Moon were available
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if Pat would also like to be allowed to speak
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: You may
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: Well, let me suggest that I anser Pat first, then we see what else people wish to discuss
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sorry for being out of order
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, jamie
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: everything is out of order today
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: Very well. And nice to see you Pat
[10:35] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to speak on this if possible. but i’d like to hear jamie first
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you have the floor.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: Pat says three things.
I was sorry to see you sell recently; I hope you’re retaining your land or citizenship here? If not, I’d regret losing you. But your counsel is
available to us in any case.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: so let me respond to the questions you raised
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i have a plot in NFS so, still a citizen
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: First, he suggests that the constitution needs work to retrofit AA into it.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: (ah good)
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: I am not sure that any action is needed other than a 2/3rds majority for that
part of the AA-CDS merger bill that affects constitutional issues — but will
be very grateful for his eyes and any others on the issues, and excpect we
could make those conforming changes rather easily. Assuming AA accepts our
offer, and assuming we make one.
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: not to brush it off, but making any conforming changes sounds like a fairly easy exercise to me
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: that’s 1
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: Second, Pat asks how AA would choose its first RA members.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: He opposes giving
them any, but just in case we do, he wants to know if they’re using a democratic election. I am no expert on AA law, but I gather they do NOT use ballot widgets, factions, Sainte Lague and Borda this and that .
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: Letme treport that, in drafting this …
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: I asked if they select in an election. They said no, they have a town-meeting consensus process, rather like Cedar Island once
advocated. This is a proposed merger.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: While they plan to join our process,
if it occurs, I do not propose that we tell them how to do their business up front Soooo I respectfully decline any suggestion that we do so.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: That’s #2
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: point of information. i don’t oppose AA having RA reps
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: as long as they make it through your facion system
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: To the third point
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: Finally, and probably Pat’s main point, he does not like the special selection, and the “converting dual citizens” device I drafted. Fair enough. Let me tell you why they are there.
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t say that jamie. please don’t put words in my mouth
[10:40] Soro Dagostino: Gentlemen
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: Plently of time to debate. I apologize for any inference to the contrary
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: on the business of how to selecte, and how to count
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: My prior draft suggested two things in this regard.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: One is that, as the combined citizenship will increase the number of RA seats, we go ahead and have AA fill them now. (As opposed to join us now and maybe you get represented later.)
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: To me that seemed more consistent with a merger than a hostile takeover — and more than a few AA citizens expressed the same view in their meetings, I am told. Hold that thought a moment please.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: The second (and final) issue is that the number must be calculated.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: How many more RA members?
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: eh, apologies that this IS complex.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: whici is silly
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: as we are really only talkign abuot a small number
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: but that’s diplomacy :”D
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: In my first draft in April I suggested that we just calculate the new RA number, based on combined CDS and AA citizens using CDS citizenship rules, and let them fill whatever that increment is .. but with a minimum of 2, to give them some assurance that we will not swamp them (given that their own citizen count is 31 at last check).
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: now, I changed that in this last draft, because AA replied and said it was unfair for all the dual citizens to automatically be erased from their headcount. In other words, in the apportionment between old CDS and AA, my first method credits all dual citizens to CDS.
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: So I wrote the revision about dual citizen counts to appease their fear.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: Tjhere’s still a backstop minimum, asyou can see.
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: and honestly?
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: I doubt it all matters
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: but
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: are we to eat them, or merge with them? TAHt imnpression WILL matter
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks, and thank you for your patience Patroklus.
[10:43] You decline Circe’s Memphis , Laurel Arts Isle (207, 92, 22) from A group member named Circe Broom.
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: i understand that the motivation for the proposal is entirely honorable
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: and that the concern is to bring in AA without ‘eating them
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: we also need to respect their traditions
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: as well as insist on respect for our own
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: so my disagreeement is with the detail, not the principle
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: AA should have their own RA members as a transitional measure
[10:44] Naughty Nibbles Black Forest Slice whispers: Yum!
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: they should elect them in a way that makes sense for them
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: but we must also look at the detail of the proposal
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: my principle objection is to CDS/AA residents, in effect, getting two votes
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: more than other CDS or AA residents
(continued below)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:45 pm
[10:46] Strummer Swansong: Strummer swansong is playing at 11 SLT….hope you can make it…pls check the NC attached for LM
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: people with land in both communities have already contributed to the selecton of this RA
[10:46] Strummer Swansong: owned by Strummer Swansong gave you ‘strummer wc sun 17th may’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Paradisiac/68/38/23 ).
[10:46] Pip Torok is such a dual citizen and agrees with Pat
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: if they also take part in selecting the additional RA members doesn’t that mean their voice counts for more than other CDS and AA residents?
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure that isn’t really the intention
[10:46] Jamie Palisades smiles. Me too. I’d welcome a fair suggestion that you think AA will accept.
[10:46] Soro Dagostino: What of reqesting the CDS/AA folk to define which area they attorn to?
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: well, there are other potential solutions
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: we could hold an election for AA citizens to choose their representatives
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: but i’m afraid CDS/AA dual citizens would not be eligible
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: /mem wonders who “we” might be
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we” the RA, we set elections
[10:48] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: (Soro that is what my bill did, but pat’s correct that this does not reduce the number already attributed to CDS RA members .. and I asked them about an electuon and they declined)
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: or we could hold a special election for the whole of the CDS and AA to elect a new combined RA for the merged entity
[10:48] You decline AQUASTAR LOUNGE, Mephit (186, 184, 62) from A group member named SD Atlass.
[10:48] ZDiva Sorbet’s Wearable Controller: THANK YOU all for your well-wishes and sweet words whilst I recovered from one of the nastiest sore throats in history. I am back, and ready to entertain! At 4pm today I’ll be at Grafton Mall (LM and details to follow) for my only performance of the day. Tuesday evening I’ll be at the Star Bar…and then that’s all for performances until Wednesday the 27th! Hope to see you today!
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, where does that leave us?
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: sorry, i’ve only seen the proposal today so not had much time to think of solutions
[10:49] Moon Adamant: why don’t AA appoint 2 reps pro term untill a general election can be called in both communities?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “special election” would be the more obvious way â€” it would be as if two (or more) seats were left vacant, and everybody would be allowed to vote for it. But …. just have one vote
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: The Motion onlyspeaks to merger.
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: Isn’t this premature?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Soro, and NOT approving Jamie’s draft bill of the merger?
[10:49] Jamie Palisades: That’s certainly possible, Moon, and will only get trashed in AA if they think they count desserves more, i guess
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:50] Soro Dagostino: Cidny
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* too
[10:50] Brian Livingston: We can’t allow dual citizens to vote twice, in effect creating a situation where they have more of an influence over the makeup of the RA. It flies in the face of our democratic principles
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: two questions:
[10:50] Brian Livingston pieps down
[10:50] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn nest
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: 1. who in AA gets to vote on the merger?
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: 2. who in AA gets to choose the AA reps
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie laid out a process that seems to cover both, but I think perhaps if we look at them separately we may be able to clarify more easily
[10:52] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: so are there any objects to ALL current AA citizens getting to vote on the merger?
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: *objections
[10:53] Pip Torok: doews that include double/cits cindy?
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s problematic
[10:53] Soro Dagostino: The LRA is at a disadvantage — I could not find the proposal
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: yes.
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: The [additional] vacant [RA] positions will be filled by [a process designated by AA management, consistent with AA law, from among persons who are (a) new CDS citizens from AA will be counted and (b) any “converting dual citizens.”] [The newly selected RA members shall] serve [either (a)] the remainder of the current RA term [or (b), if they are selected less than one month prior to the closing date for RA candidacy in the next RA general election, for the remainder of the current term plus the next term.] [10:53] Jamie Palisades: that;s it
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: whoops…sorry, wrong paste…
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: (and I will raise my hand for a prodedural point after the current queue of 2 or 3 is exhausted)
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: for the whole bill
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: um AA citizens voting on merger?
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: I am lost here
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: they do
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: not
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: vote
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: there
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: excuse me…..
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: hmn? ARab consultation traditions, town meetings
[10:54] Soro Dagostino: Where does the body want to go with this.
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: I misspoke — they do not vote, they contribute to consensus
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: as some of you know
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: no election…
[10:54] Sonja Strom is noticing a couple of hands up in the room
[10:55] Jamie Palisades: Queue, Mr LRA?
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices them too
[10:55] Soro Dagostino: Sonja
[10:55] Sonja Strom: Thank you,
[10:55] Sonja Strom: I would be ok with AA choosing their own 2 representatives for the remainder of this term – it would only be for a couple of RA meetings.
[10:55] Sonja Strom: (done thanks
[10:55] You decline New Arena, The GreenOgham (32, 86, 28) from A group member named Ayjla Onmura.
[10:55] You decline Pier’s Paradise from A group member named RockPianoman Pienaar.
[10:55] Moon Adamant: i agree with Sonja
[10:55] Brian Livingston: *raises bunny paw*
[10:56] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:56] Moon Adamant: sensible way
[10:56] Moon Adamant: and Guild meeting in 5 minutes at NFS School be there or be square
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[10:56] You decline Cascadia Harmonics, Cascadia (233, 20, 29) from A group member named Fyrm Fouroux.
[10:57] Moon Adamant: meet you all there later .)
[10:57] Sonja Strom notices at least one hand and bunny paw in the air
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[10:57] Soro Dagostino: What do you want to do?
[10:57] Soro Dagostino: Pat
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn grumbles
[10:57] Sonja Strom: *lol*
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: after the others soro
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: we really ought to stay and finish this
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t want to get hit by gwyn or brian
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion: to extend the discussion (yes, we also have the Monastery next)
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: I cannot see the hands — would you please note in chat
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and no, i wanted to talk about something else actually, but I think that the motion to extend is important at this moment)
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: Cidy
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: and I rewen mine, which cam after cindy’s first
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn next
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: *renew
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to ask Sonja:
[10:59] Brian Livingston: *raises paw*
[10:59] Soro Dagostino: Cnidy
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: sonja, what if the merger does not occur until after the new term starts
[10:59] Soro Dagostino: Jamie then biran
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn/Sonja done?
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: are you still ok with AA ‘selecting its own reps”?
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: oops, cindy/sonja I meant
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: /
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I understand that “temporary solutions” are not to be shunned at. However, even though the RA is sovereign in its decisions, it’s also subject to the SC to review the constitutionality of what the RA decides.
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My suggestion would be to “go by the book” instead of inventing new rules. We have the case of “special elections”
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which are called when seats are vacant that nobody is able to fill them
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This could be seen as a similar situation:
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA has expanded, since it will have more citizens
[11:01] Jamie Palisades: ugh
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A few more seats (at least 2) will be vacated
[11:01] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, out time has run out.
[11:01] Jamie Palisades: we could indeed
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AA citizens WILL be citizens of *the whole of the CDS*
[11:01] Jamie Palisades: was my hand raised and not recognized, Mr LRA?
[11:01] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[11:01] Sonja Strom: To answer Cindy’s question, it would be less ideal if the merger happened after the next election, true, but in that case I think I would still be ok with it.
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be an alternative â€” AA has 60 days to think about our proposal anyway
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they could simply all vote on the next term
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No need for “special rules”
[11:02] Jamie Palisades: ahem )
[11:02] Jamie Palisades: Two things
[11:02] Soro Dagostino: Since you don’t seem to need me. I’ll be going
[11:02] Jamie Palisades: first here is why I do not agree, respectfully, wuith Gwyneth
[11:02] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[11:03] Soro Dagostino: Then Brian
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: to force that kind of special election here does one of two thigns
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: either it makes AA candidates run against CDS candidates for the (say) 2 new seats
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: to join the 7 existing from CDS
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: or
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: it forced AA to run its own election
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: while it is still its own place with its own rules
[11:04] Patroklus Murakami still has hand raised. after brian?
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: both seem, simply, rude to me. Now, I will offer an alternative
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: if you are minded to approve this
and to let AA select its reps
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: but the double counting is a fear
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: why not approve it but specify two reps period
elminate all the double counting
leave the rest as it stands
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: .. let me point out
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: RA is being asked to approve an offer
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: whatever its terms
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: AA can accept or reject
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: so
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: put your best deal on the table, is my advice, assuming you wish to see the marger actually happen
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: I would not advise getting obsessed with the
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: shape of the lace doilies on the table
[11:05] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — are you done?
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: if you can’t get food on it. Yes, now
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pushy, pushy, Mr Chancellor “don’t be obsessed with democracy”
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: tsk
[11:05] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:05] Soro Dagostino: Then Pat
[11:05] Brian Livingston: Thank you sir
[11:06] Jamie Palisades: Democracy, the Romans would tell us, does not require
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whatever OCD is….
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* for later again
[11:06] Pip Torok: Aren’t we arguing anothewr’s issue? I mean double-citizenry is an issue if/only if AA says it IS an issue
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: BRian
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: Then Pat
[11:07] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — then Pip
[11:07] Brian Livingston: I don’t see the concern about hte influence of dual citizens on the nwely expanded RA as being OCD or hyperbole, but rather a basic democratic principle, that each citizen’s vote and influence is the same as his or her bfellow citizen’s. By countign hte votes of dual citizens, we are magnifyign their voice and influnece, and again, it flies int he face of our democratic principles. I am eager to see a merger occur, but i cannot support it if it compromises our democratic foundation
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear
[11:08] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[11:08] Brian Livingston: I don’t see a problem with dual citizens voting for the merger, as tehy hav a financial stake in the matter, but when it comes to our representation, no I can’t vote for it.
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: we need to uphold the consititutional requirement that “The Representative Assembly (RA) is a body of democratically elected factions which represent different ideological views of its citizens”
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: Excuse me
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: sorry?
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh?
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: To brian
[11:09] Brian Livingston is done with his comments
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh
[11:09] Brian Livingston: I cede the floor
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: ty brian
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: Now Gwyn
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Pat first, Mr LRA
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: i have a few more words
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: TY
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: Pat
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: look, we need to respect our own principles as well as those of AA
[11:10] Jamie Palisades smiles, listens
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: we can’t just suspend the idea that we elect RA members for a month or so because it’s convenient
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: nor can we ignore double counting in whatever form it might take
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: (I’ll ask to join the queue after Gwyn & whoever else)
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: i think we should, in dialogue with AA, try to find a way in which both traditions can be respected when choosing additional reps for the RA
[11:11] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[11:12] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously I don’t wish that the new AA citizens feel overswamped by us or anything… but if the “special election” is not a solution (as Jamie pointed out, it might even look worse from the AA’s point of view), let’s Keep It Simple. Campaigning in the CDS for the 11th term will start in a month or so. The proposal,
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as it stands, even gives the AA 60 days to reject it
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it means… with sims being moved around and such…
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. that we might not be “finished” with everything by the end of June
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s simply agree
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the AA is “officially” merged with the CDS
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: by the start of the campaigning for the next term
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll recalculate all seats
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, well, every citizen â€” no matter where they have land in â€” will have a vote
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But just *one* vote
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all. It’s not as if we’re saying “oh, you’ll have to wait a year or so”.
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Are you finished?
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just a few weeks â€” and I’m sure they won’t answer to our proposal *today*
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, thank you
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Who is next?
[11:14] Brian Livingston: *raises his hand to discuss his concern with a different section of the proposal*
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:14] Jamie Palisades: I thoguth I was, but did not notice
[11:15] Brian Livingston: Jamie was first, sir
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Brian, I have other issues too
[11:15] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol raises hand to be added to the queue one more time
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: 1. I believe Brian’s appropriate concern about double counting would be addressed by assigning two seats to the estate knowm to have between 20 & 31 citizens.
[11:15] Soro Dagostino: Cindy to Follow Brian
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: 2,. I will not respond to some of the more derogatory personal aspects of various views about who champions democray.
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: Suffice to say we disagree
[11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: In corporate work one is obligaed to respect he righs of shareholders to vote
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: aexcuse me?
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: .. but …
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: ooops
[11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: continue
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: also in mergers, fair law permits the creation of bridge measures
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: as would a fair minded person here
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: finally, ladies and gentlemen
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: I have brought you a proposal AA woudl accept
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: it is well known that I believe he byzantine overcomplications of CDS election law to be silly
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: and wasteful
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn gasps.
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her ears*
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: I hope no one is surprised that I am trying to find a simple fair soluiton
[11:18] Jamie Palisades:
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: and I invite you, as the legislature into whose hand I have places a proposal, to do better
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: but cuation you
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: I gave you one that will work
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: so: best of luck. Done, thanks
[11:18] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* (after Brian and Cindy)
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami raises hand (after brian, cindy, gwyn)
[11:19] Soro Dagostino: (Soro looks at watch)
[11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I had a motion, a seconded one, to extend the discussion )
[11:20] Brian Livingston: My final point of conern is regarding point 8, which permits the EO of AA to, after consultation with thecitizens of those territories, disolve the merger at the 1 year anniversary. It seems a bit concerning that we give AA this ability, but do not reserve such rights for ourselves. Again, I just read this overearlier today, so alternatives aren’t readily available. Hmmm, in short i am not particularly comfortable with that provision.
[11:21] Soro Dagostino: Please state when you finish your comment.
[11:21] Brian Livingston: I would be interested in exploring this provision a bit further and the reasoning behind its inclusion as it is written, with all respect
[11:21] Brian Livingston is done
[11:21] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: thx
[11:22] Cindy Ecksol: I just wanted to comment that we’ve been talking about “democratic” vs. “undemocratic” with respect to AA because they do not have elections as we do
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: would like to point out that the AA consensus process for choosing reps and deciding issues is exactly as democratic as our own process…elections are not the ONLY democratic process that exists
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: if we need to have AA reps chosen that way (in their own democratic process) to be members of a “faction” once the merger is complete….
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: no reason why we can’t designate them as such
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: but silly to be arguing that such a selection would not be “democratic”
[11:24] Cindy Ecksol: done
[11:24] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, but unfortunately, when we discuss pragmatism vs. principles, I’m solidly behind principles. Even if this means in the short term that we might lose some opportunities, in the long term, it’s our reputation that is also at stake…
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, to keep it short, obviously I’m not totally against temporary measures, if they seem fair, just, and don’t violate any Constitutional rights.
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still maintain the point that we could simply wait a few weeks and let things settle at the beginning of the next term.
[11:25] Jamie Palisades: Try that June 30 AA deadline, as previously discussed
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Instead of dealing with a “provisional” measure that, well, overrules all our constitutional provisions of equal rights…
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That works, jamie
(continued below)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
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Top
Re: RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:46 pm
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d suggest simply to cross all those sections related to “double counting”, special appointments, and so on
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, well, let the new reps get elected regularly
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we were at the beginning of a term, I might argue differently
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we’re not.
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[11:26] Cindy Ecksol shrugs
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two further points, if I may
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely second Brian’s thoughts
[11:26] Cindy Ecksol: that’s fine — and we may as well vote and move on since AA is not going to agree to such an offer
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The CDS should also have the same one-year-clause
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of 4 weeks, Cindy?!
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s… preposterous
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aren’t they supposed to be as fair-minded as we are?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We COULD also do something else, e.g. NOT call any RA meetings until next term
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if that’s what worries them….
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I had two things still…
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, one is Brian’s issue
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the AA is allowed to agree to separate again in a year,
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the CDS ought to have the same right too
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if only implied…
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last point is about the whole mess of the not-for-profit
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that, suddenly, out of the clear sky
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: drops on us like a bomb
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and… let me quote:
[11:28] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn, your time is up.
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.”
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mr LRA
[11:29] Soro Dagostino: I have not wanted to invoke the that rule
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I cannot have more time, I’m afraid I’ll have to vote utterly against this proposal
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry
[11:30] Soro Dagostino: That is your perogative
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you can see, this proposal has a few traps
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn gives up
[11:30] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — will you sum up for the proponent
[11:30] Sonja Strom: /sees that Patroklus has his hand up too
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami coughs
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I make a SERIOUS protest, Mr LRA. This is the first time, in five years, that our freedom of speech has been cut short!
[11:31] Soro Dagostino: Jamie will you yield to Pat
[11:31] Sonja Strom was cut short on the flag conversation
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Second time even. Oh my.
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we’ll be all ruled by a non-profit anyway
[11:32] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[11:32] Soro Dagostino: Please yield to Pat
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: is jamie afk? may I have the floor?
[11:33] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmmm, he does not appear to be with us.
[11:33] Soro Dagostino: at
[11:33] Soro Dagostino: Pat*
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: ty
[11:33] Brian Livingston flings a rubber band at jamie
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: look, we all want to bring in AA to the CDS
[11:33] Jamie Palisades: ( for convenience I believe Gwyn’s suggestion would do this: It would replace section 4 of the bill with this: AA citizens hwo become CDS citizens by operation of this merger will vote in the next regular CDS RA election. I agree with Cindy though, Gwyn’s suggestion is naive: “taxation without representation” rarely goes over well in Western countries. I see not problem with a MUTUAL one year back out.)
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: there is no question about that
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: but this proposal has only been seen, in it’s current form, for a few hours
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: and several RA members clearly have issues with it
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly
[11:35] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: i am confident we can find a solution that would be acceptable to both CDS and AA
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: let’s focus on that, keep our eyes on the prize
[11:35] Sonja Strom: Although, the representation issue has been the same in the proposal for some time…
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: despite our disagreements
[11:35] Jamie Palisades: sorry, yes. Several RA meetings are scheduled. I do think you can act within the tiem available to propose something fair that is not so naive as to give AA no rights on the CDS RA. Let those who think they can take up PEN
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[11:36] Soro Dagostino: Is it time to postpone this to the next meeting?
[11:37] Pip Torok: I’d say yes, Mr LRA
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that motion, since some people wish to leave, because I see there are a LOT of more questions on the proposal that I wasn’t even aware of
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: Or — are you ready to vote?
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only in general â€” not on the specifics.
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: Pip’s statement is the motion
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: There is a second
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: Non-debateble
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: In favor?
[11:38] Pip Torok: aye
[11:38] Sonja Strom: abstain
[11:38] Cindy Ecksol: not sure what we’re voting on
[11:38] Brian Livingston: aye
[11:38] Cindy Ecksol: to adjourn?
[11:38] Soro Dagostino: Postponement
[11:38] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:38] Soro Dagostino: of the matter.
[11:38] Pip Torok: no .. to postpone issue to next meeting
[11:38] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[11:39] Soro Dagostino: Next meeting.
[11:39] You decline !! Nederpoort Virtual g, Sankt Marx (170, 21, 22) from A group member named Quinton Diavolo.
[11:39] You decline Pier’s Paradise from A group member named RockPianoman Pienaar.
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on postponing to the next meeting
[11:39] Soro Dagostino: Opposed
[11:40] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[11:40] Soro Dagostino: We are very late, is there a motion to adjoun and carry the remainming business to the m=next meeting?
[11:41] Sonja Strom: I move to adjourn and carry all remaining business from this meeting to the next one.
[11:41] Pip Torok: second
[11:41] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[11:41] Soro Dagostino: ok, missed that
[11:41] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[11:42] Pip Torok: aye
[11:42] Sonja Strom: aye
[11:42] Brian Livingston: aye
[11:42] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: opposed
[11:42] Soro Dagostino: Motion to adjourn is carried.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 31 May 2009

RA Transcript: 31 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 31, 2009 2:34 pm
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is for all to do. Please consent
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent to recording now please
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Where is the recorder
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: black box under the table — but don’t touch, jus t consent in chat please
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I consent
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: I consent to being recorded.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i consent to being recorded
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hi pat!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi Pat!!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting for Brian and Jamie
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: no quorum
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I see that.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting . . .
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami recalls that is often difficult to get a quorum at this stage of the RAs term
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope the meeting becomes quorate soon. if not, did you plan to hold a free discussion for anyone who wants to stay?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That would be in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: great
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Hi su
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi hi
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets proceed, subject to ratification by the any quorum maker
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises brow
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i consent
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: i do… if i say anything
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but we can’t do anything soro….
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: what su said
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know Rose.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: But we can get to open discussion items.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not those up for a vote.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: well, we could have an open discussion about *anything*! just no votes
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: in that case i have an item of discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We do have an agenda.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not a free for all.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: about the effect of adding 45 citizens on 1 maybe 2 factions here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets first see if the Agenda is in order.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ok
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: sure soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any corrections, Additonal items?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: under item IIi.2 should we not have a vote on the Monastery?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria ask for that, and here she is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not my place to make amendments.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: At what point is the meeting adjourned for lack of quorum?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I’ll hold out until 0930
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: because i don’t want to stay for open discussion, but i don’t want to leave if there is a chance something will happen
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We can agree to 0930?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sure
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes (reluctantly)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have sent Brian a Linden Tom-tom
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can you send sonja one? (whatever that is)
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sonja is traveling, she told me she requested 7 day
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: what the heck is a linden Tom Tom???
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I don’t have her on my friends list.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ah!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: For those who accept e-mail IM’s
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My description of the process.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hey, brian’s online!
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: Brian is here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: He is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Et voila.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: a close call, no?
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: rabbits!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Brian — consent to record please?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all:-)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Please excuse my tardiness, I consent to recording
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Arria
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi arria [2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Consent to record please
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria is here via Ajax Life so she’s going to have to stand there the whole time
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I consent to record too
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Ajax Life. it’s a SL client that runs on the web
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Oh?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I should be a cloud …
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: in the browser…
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: we can see you arria standing proud!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We have a quorum.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you look fine, but you’re standing about three meters in front of me in the middle of the room
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: never mind arria … your here!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, soro, I move that we add a vote on the Monastery to item III.2
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: second
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: great But I cannot move my avatar
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: IN favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: of adding a vote right?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Need three . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok reports Cindy to the RSPCA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: sure
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2b is changed to “Vote”
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any speakers on today’s Agenda?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non-RA
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: well, do i have to speak now?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Raises hand provisionally.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you asked for speakers
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on AA merger, when you get to it
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: On Monastery, I can speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: On today’s Agenda items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale reserves the right to speak on both voting items
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: One possible effect of AA merger and a brief SC report if there’s time.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thanks, I have the list.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I’ll reserve the right to speak on the voting items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: lol. you are RA rabbit
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have that right as an RA member
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Eh, always afraid of crossing a line and BAM, stew… :p
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale peels carrots quietly…
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Llast admin item — next meeting is June 13th — as noted.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: june 13 is saturday….
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: is that correct?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: *nods* June 14th is the sunday
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II on the Agenda — we will change to June 14th.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My error.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Counted days.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I may not be able to attend so will ask now for a 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: used 13
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Noted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II — deferred to see if the Chancellor ever arrives.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, Item III
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Acession of AA.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponent?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks at brian
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sure, I’ll do it
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair notes a new proposal was issued by the Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: This morning
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: well, I think we need to let Brian speak….
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Have you all had a chance to read it?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I’d like to move to discuss this and the previous proposal.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can we see this new proposal?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed — you are in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2438
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: PLease proceed Brian.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol seconds brian’s motiion
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: After taking the concerns of RA members into consideration, Jamie revised the draft merger proposal to create a method for the CDS to dissolve the merger, as well as attempt to address the concerns over voting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion needs no vote
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: RA Reps, etc
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Continue
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmmm, point of order, am I amble to make my personal commentary and opinions at this point or am I just introducing?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: please introduce first brian so we all know what we’re talking about
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets get the matter on the table
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thank you
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to amend the former proposal
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: As a whole, this proposal will create a mechanism to merge the CDS and AA communities and serve as a template for future such occurances.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol rases hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston raises hand to speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian next
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Soro, since there was aproposal on the table from last meeting, I’d like to review that first. then we can modify
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: after discussion of course
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is in order.
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: sorry… musy go
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy — comments about the proposal?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: this is the draft we looked at last time: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394 scroll down to the May 14 section (second draft)
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sorry — may 17
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please look everyone.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat — after Brian
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks expectantly at brian
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Your next
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I’m just waiting for brian to explain his concerns with the proposal and how he’d like to amend it (if at all)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know — poking bunny again . . .
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, so at the last meeting, I expressed two concerns over this proposal; The first was regarding the unilateral ability for AA to dissolve this merger without an ability for the CDS to do the same. THe second concern was regarding teh effect of dual citizens on the makeup and suize of the RA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is typing, albeit slowly
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: The first concern can be assuaded through modifying the proposal Jamie made in his third draft, which would create an option for the RA to dissolve the merger. However, I would like to propose that instead of a simple majority, that we require a super majority of 2/3rds to dissolve the merger, given the grave implications such an action would have on the community and citizens.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Procedural point.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proposal is to modify which of Jamies writings?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: And then, is that proposal before us?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: (2nd draft is on the table, not third)
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sorry, manner of speech. I’ll formally propose modifying the second draft in a bit.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is what I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is the modification proposed to the third draft or the second?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I’m referring to the second draft.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: has to be to the second, soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian — you have the floor.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, The second concern is one that, after reading over the draft and our founding documents some, has me much less concerned. I was interested in the thought that a citizen of both the CDS and AA could count twice towards the size and makeup of the RA. However, I’ve come to realize that the addition of AA is not simply adding new population numbers, but also adding a large investment of time, effort, and capital. Members of that community, all members,a re invested in the interests of AA and should be represented as such for the interim period. In addition, I see their method of selection to be an internal community matter within the AA leading up to the formal merger when they would be seated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: In short, I support this legislation with the modifications to section 8 as previously stated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins raises hand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Are you moving to amend?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmm, I can.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Would you?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude you are after Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Move to change Section 8 to: ” 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, now second
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: ”
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion is accepted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion — first from the proponent
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Simply put, this will give the CDS equal footing in this merger to dissolve the agreement, but would require a supermajority, given the gravity of such a decision on the community and the citizens of the affected regions
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thus, I recommend ammending this proposal as such.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: ty soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You are next.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope you will move on to the third draft soon and consider my proposed constitutional amendment to enable the changes to take place
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid the second draft on the table has some problems associated
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: and i think the 2/3 requirement might introduce some new ones!
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think it’s clear from the proposal how AA intends to select its representatives
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the third draft was clearer in this respect in that it talked about ‘democratically electing’ them
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so some clarity on that would be welcome i feel
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on the 2/3 point just proposed though
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: are we saying that the RA needs to have a 2/3 majority to cancel the merger after a year but AA has a lower barrier?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: presumably, if we agree that this is so important that the bar should be set higher
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it should apply equally to both communities?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: First – this matter was discussed at Friday’s SC meeting – Jamie attended and his statements there might be enlightening given his absence today.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Transcript is: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2441
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: The question of adding reps, even temporary ones to the RA without a constitutional amendment….
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: …has drawn the attention of the SC.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Second. this proposal could add as many as 45 new citizens.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: If that addition happens close to a faction certification deadline. two of the three current factions would have to recruit very rapidly to remain legally viable.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: (*all* three, i think!)
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As a citizen, I worry that growth which leads to a one party election would be a bad thing.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok worries as well
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That isn’t an issue until AA approves?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As to the constitutional amendment issue, it would be unfortunate for this carefully thought out and negotiated matter to be delayed by things getting tied up in the SC.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to respond to claude….
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: today’s vote requires no constitutional amendment.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it is merely a vote to extend a proposal to AA
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: If AA accepts that proposal, we’ll have to deal with the constitutional issue
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but not until then.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a call of the question?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I move the second draft as amended
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: on the amendment . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, there was a personal emergency that detained me this morning; I see you are well underway but letme just apologise for being absent until now.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: yes, i wondered if anyon was able to answer my question about how AA will select its reps
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not that I know.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i should have hoped that a legislature might want to know how the addtional members will be added
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The question has been voted on.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote on the main motion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As amended.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: i’d speak to it, but am counselled by the chair’s advice that it’s been resolved by this body.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny again
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Abstentions?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: soro i think you are the only one left to vote

(continued)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Transcript: 31 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 31, 2009 2:36 pm
(continued from previous post)

[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: No need unless a negative vote.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, may ai raise a point about that proceurally?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: I believe tjhat n the case of a vote where anyone might argue constitutionaliyu …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: .. the presence of 5 voes woudl be legalyl significant later
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: So I cast an aye.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades nods
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol notes that sonja requested 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We are running late.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you all for your hard work on this.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2. Monestary
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proponent?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Should I say something?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i propose it
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok hopes arria now takes the floor
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Poke the bunny!
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria — you may speak to it
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades raises hand also,on this one
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2395#p13241
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Don’t know where to poke Arria
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Can I, Soro?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades smiles, takes hand down – yup, that’s what I was going to mention. Pip, can we take that as the substance of your motion?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria you are allowed to speak.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I take it you want the motion passed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any other discussion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale withdraws hand lol
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston sorta would liek to hear the remaining opinions before voting
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I ask.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades raises eye brow at chair? I can speak briefly in favor if you like
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I think rose had something to say
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: waiting to be recognized
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami gave you PCA Article VII Merger with other Communities.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (amd Arria seems to have significant technical trouble)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair will accept that the call for vote was premature.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose, then Jamie.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: thanks
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then Arria.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i have a couple of questions
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i’ve raised a few times the issue of homestead over full prim sim for this project, but have never seen it discussed, here or in guild
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: second.. CDS buys the homestead… does CDS get teh payments for the sale of the parcels?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy — would take the chair for a moment.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: need to go afk for a sec.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Arria, can you respond?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: or Jamie if arria is unable
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (Arria is typing)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have always told that Monastery works with exhibitions and not with events
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok sees arrias avi typing but sees no chat
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand for follow up
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: we have a regular affluence and not a big venue for a short moment
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: )I’ll ask to comment on this firt question of Rose’s after Arria speaks)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: so there is no problem of performances for the Monastery
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol notes jamie’s request
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Arria, I think Rose’s question was, who pays for the sim purchase, and who gets the original sales recveune from the real estate parcels?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: and what class of sim does your proposal plan to buy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Back
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol passes baton back to soro and notes that jamie is next up to speak followed by rose
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria still has the floor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: as I have understood from your draft of proposal and as the RA as voted last year, it will be a normal CDS expansion sim
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have engaged myself to pay the fees for 4 months
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: so full prim sim and CDS gets the purchase revenue?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: but the CDS get the money for the parcels as normally
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: um. Keeping my hand raised here.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: no full prim sim
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it is clear in the proposal: it is a homestead sim
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: jamie I know your there.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria are you done?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: yes
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: for that question
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: It is my unerstanding, to elaborate, that
(a) the proposal, which i remind you is here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2395&p=13159#p13159
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: , says it’s a homestead class sim …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (b) CDS will pay the purchase price
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (c) Virtus has bsically guaranteed ‘CDS tier’ rental income to for a period
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (d) that revenue comes back to CDS as always
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: and finally
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (e) the Virtus people hacve acknwoledged that the homestead class sim will limit thior ability to run events, AND the popujlation of the other six lots we add …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: so
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok hopes CDS takes advantage of the “grandfather before July1st” option LL has announces
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: indeed this will if passes be an experiment in whether those small lots can be attractive on a homestead sim
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: we don’t know I support the experiment, though, and the RA CAN work with virtus to adjust prim use on the land as needed
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: like all CDS builds, our artisans for the sim
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: in this case arria and ulysse
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: will work with us under CDS law to make common prim use, and prim count for ocupied land, appropriate. Thanks, done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: yes, thanks
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i am in support of the monasteery sim
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i’m opposed to locating a homestead sim in this location, and opposed to a public project being limited from the outset
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: while Arria says she doesnt’ do events. i’ll remind you all that the monastery just in February participated in the Grand Tour
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: which brought in more than the 20 avatar limit
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it was an exception. we usually don’t do that
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i’ve had direct experience with homesteads and even minor events, and to locate a homestead in the middle of the CDS project will not just limit it, but the CDS project too
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: so i’d like to see it be a regular sim
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: done
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Leon, welcome.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: didn’t the RA just vote to add AA, including 4 homestead sims, to the CDS? why is this situation so radically different?
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Thank you Soro, hi all
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one please — Leon please consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: to respond to pat, there IS a difference…
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades leaves hand in air as well, for after Rose’s Qs to Arria
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Sure thing Soro, please refreshg my memory about which object is the recorder.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: the monastery proposal has much more going on than the homesteads in AA….
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The consent is in chat
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: those are one-function, one-person spaces really. the monastery is intended to be visited…a lot, I hope!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: and the monastery is smack dab in the center of CDS
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: I give consent to be recorded. Although visual copyright remains with the creator of the avatar
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whiel the homesteads for AA are more like “extra space” for attached full sims
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Mr LRA, a potential proposal:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have a motion?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I study the way people visit since months. It is a regular venue, but not many people at the same time.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: could we add a contingency to the Monastery bill that we revisit usage after a certain time with the intent of requiring an upgrade?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it’s not yet a motion: neeeds input and wordsmithing
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok wd support such an amendment
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand again
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then do you wish to move postponement?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades smiles, rolls eyes, would like to talk to such an amendment if it comes into being
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: not a motion soro, needs discussion….
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: rose has her hand up….
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy, it is not on topic, and changes the proposal
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then Jamie
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: The idea is to put the Monastery on an homestead sim and not on a normal sim. We need space around.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Re the AA homesteads, if you read the discussions on relocation, you’ll see that one of the things beign considered is the upgrade of at least someo f those sims for this very reason
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: secondly, if the AA merger goest through, there wiill be a non profit organization at the disposal of CDS
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: this would be available to acquire a full prim sim for the monastery and less cost than a homestead
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: and not limit the future of either the monastery or the cds
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol likes the possibilties……
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I will not move the Monastery on a normal sim, even potentially
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm . . . .
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: why?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: There appear to be structural disagreement.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie you were next.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: What if the cost of that sim, owned by CDS, was lower than a homstead, Arria?
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Sorry for the short visit, but it is time for me to dash.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Take care.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol waves to leon
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA ,let me see if I can get that issue posed to Arria, as the original designer, before commenting otherwise
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Cheers Leon
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: if the Monastery goes on a full sim, it will be the same than today: a parcel without extension around
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: so better not move
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it was one of the conditions of the projects: see my text on the forums
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, why is that so?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: why wd it be such a parcel, Arria?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Arria, I undersatnd that the POSITION is a fixed requirement. fro Virtus. If we could leave it in its place – and upgrade it to full sim – with no cost to Virtus and minimal cost to CDS – i that a problem?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (Arria has a limited connection so I am trying to frame things conveniently for her, sorry)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: sorry I have an important call. please
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades hmmmmms, leavs his own hand raised for after the conclusion of arria’s response
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: isn’t the problem that the Monastery proposal has been designed on the basis of a homestead sim and therefore, changing the proposal to a full sim at the last minute, fundamentally alters it?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the sim layout, maps, and economics have all been worked out on the homestead basis
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale has been raising this issue for months
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: if you change it to a full sim, you need more parcels, more tenants etc to make it pay
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: No. Use a non-profit.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so you just go back to what we have now – the Monastery in AM – with no benefit for moving it
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: Also .. once that proposal has been implemeented … cant we just wait and see what happens, as Cindy implies?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid the non-profit route is still to be determined
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it’s putting the proposal into the long grass
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: It is.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i prefer cindy’s option of a review after getting it set up
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: and me
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip next.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: There seem to be two issues raised. One is whether we CAN change type of sim later, without voiding the deal with Virtus, and without making the economics untenable. I do not know.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: I think it;s worth reserving that option
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: nothing except that cindys potentiel prosal leaves all options open …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: andwe wold do so with the understandin gthat we have to work with Virtus too, to make it work
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: but I see a lot of possibility here in the upgrade and nonprofit options ,,, as later paths to be debated collaboratively.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Not fair to Arris to try and resolve it today, i think.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Second issue
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy follows Pip.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie has the floor.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Sim traffic load. Might I suggest that Rose briefly describe AA’s experience with the “Library” void sim build, and its events and AA traffic, and explain how she thinks the Monastery presents a different case? I am not sure I see the difference, but would like to hear her take from a concrete example.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: done
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: done
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: thx
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale wil reply when recognized
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: nothing more to add
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: cindy next i think?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I am back
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hold one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria please read the chat.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy is next.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: ok
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The rose, then Arria.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have to rush you all, but we are running late.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i see them as exactly alike .. the library sim and the monastery and exactly why it is my hope that we will use the additional homesteads in the AA project to upgrade the library and also the nature preserve
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: being that we’re running late….
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sorry, out of order
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to move that we defer the vote on the monastery until next meeting
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non – debatetable
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: In favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: for me it’s easy: if I cannot get a homestead in CDS, maybe on an other place of the GMP (maybe in the moutains), I will look for a solution outside CDS
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Sorry Arria, a nondebateable motion . . . Cindy
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Matter moved to next meeting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As a voted matter.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have studied the problem in details and the Monastery must be on a homestead.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please post and revisions in the forum
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We are late.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: There were items for the SC?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: Arria a link to the reasons you state wd be helpful …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Apologies again for my part in the lateness, ladies and gentlemen.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Does anyone want to make motions to have those matters heard?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Or should we postpone?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Hm, fooey we lost Claude
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Delia? is action needed?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: imo we postpone …
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: the main reason is space and quiet place
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I don’t work with event
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: understood
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria — post that in the forums for all to read, please
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I can only think to take an other place on GMP, in the higher mounains
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LKRAm on Arria;s behalf, I would like to point out that she is working with very bad lag conditions, and we wll need to give her the chance to fully understand and work with us on any changes.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip has made a motion to postpone the SC matters.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: or join an other community
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I understand Jamie.
[2009/05/31 Delia Lake: yes, we can postpone the SC. the issues are important but not urgent
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a second.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Now we can adjourn and carry on discussions to resolve Arria’s issues
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to adjourn?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Welcom Bromo
[2009/05/31 Bromo Ivory smiles
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: tell me what I should do?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait a second, lets get out of session.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale winks at Bromo
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I guess we are adjourned?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I must run — I am playing a waltz party at the Opera at 1pm
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy.

Permalink.

Al Andalus Expansion Proposal: Final 1 June 2009

Al Andalus Expansion Proposal: Final
by Cindy Ecksol » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:58 pm
Subject to correction by anyone who can substantiate a correction, here is the text of the Al Andalus Expansion Proposal approved at the May 31 RA meeting:

Resolved
CDS extends an offer to merge with the Al Andalus estates on the following terms and with the following conditions.

1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA’s managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.

2. AA’s SL groups will be maintained and administratively supported by CDS government, including the public interest lists; members of those lists may also be invited as appropriate to join other CDS groups. The exception is that SL groups used for land administration (in other words, government, not citizen groups) may be altered and consolidated.

3. As a project operated in Linden Lab’s “Educational sim” class, AA sims may only be transferred to another duly qualified nonprofit organization. AA sims will be maintained in their current nonprofit status, and [transferred to a new nonprofit organization as stated in paragraph 5.

The AA sims will remain at their current rents, tier and pricing, for one year after acceptance, so long as the Linden sim tier prices applicable to them do not change. [See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the merged estates.]

Public land and buildings in AA shall become the property of CDS. All AA community builds will be subject to CDS law regarding community assets and theme build protection for AA’s recreation of 13th century Arabic Granada, Spain. AA makes no representation that such structures will be available as copies for archive purposes, but will
take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to supply archived copies and content where such exist. CDS agrees to take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to support the maintenance and operation of such buildings.

CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no present nonconforming builds or covenant violations on the AA sims. All building, structure and style terms of the present AA covenant will be retained.

4. The CDS RA will be increased by a number equal to the higher of
* (a) two, or
* (b) the number of additional members that would be added to the RA under CDS law by reason of the additional number of citizens added under Para 1 above.

In calculating that number, (a) each new CDS citizen from AA will be counted, plus (b) any “converting dual citizens.” A “converting dual citizen” is a current CDS citizen who wishes to designate AA’s sims as their primary residence within CDS; who does so by informing the CDS chancellor in writing within a reasonably set deadline; and who does not currently serve on the CDS RA.

The additional vacant RA positions will be filled by a process designated by AA management, consistent with AA law, from among persons who are (a) new CDS citizens from AA will be counted and (b) any “converting dual citizens.” The newly selected RA members shall serve either (a)] the remainder of the current RA term [or (b), if they are selected less than one month prior to the closing date for RA candidacy in the next RA general election, for the remainder of the current term plus the next term.

5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.

The estate owner for the AA Sims for the first year will be nominated by AA, to serve until the eighth calendar day after the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and afterwards by the usual CDS government methods. The AA EO must (a) act as an officer or agent of the new nonprofit entity; (b) agree to report to and take direction from the CDS government under the same terms as the current CDS EO, subject to the terms explicitly stated in this offer; and (c) agree to cooperate with the affiliation or merger of the new nonprofit entity, with a later new CDS nonprofit organization, if at a later time the CDS by legislation elects to subject the ownership of its other CDS sims to control by a nonprofit organizations.

6. CDS will open a funded local sim event programming panel, on the same terms to be used for other CDS communities, for the AA estate. CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no theme, feasibility or appropriateness issues with the cultural and event programming activities presently conducted on ther AA sims.

7. This offer will remain open for 60 days from the date this resolution is adopted. AA may accept by its current EO so stating in writing, so long as:
(a) he/she confirms that a specific map of the combined CDS-AA sim territories, which has been approved by the RA, also is acceptable to AA; and
(b) The CDS government and AA EO are satisfied, at the time of acceptance, that] a substantial number of AA residents have not indicated the intent to leave AA at the time of combination.

CDS and AA will submit a territory sim join request to Linden Lab, when and if that acceptance is received and those conditions are met] within the allotted time. [CDS will pay the applicable sim location transfer fees.

8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 7 June 2009

RA meeting 7 June 2009 TRANSCRIPT
by Cindy Ecksol » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:55 pm
Gwyneth Llewelyn joins Claude across the room… he feels so lonely there
Soro Dagostino: would you like to comment.
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i hope this will be a brief return, but ty for asking
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Next meeting will be the regularly scheduled 0900 meeting on June 13, 2009.
Pip Torok thinks Pat has something to say …
Soro Dagostino: Oh, I thought he had.
Patroklus Murakami: (no, i’ve finished )
Soro Dagostino: Sorry.
Moon Adamant: hello everyone
Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon.
Sonja Strom: hello Moon
Soro Dagostino: Please consent to recordation. Touch the recorder on the table.
Sonja Strom: I will not be able to attend the meeting on the 13th, and request a 7-day vote for it.
Moon Adamant: i assent to recording
Soro Dagostino: Noted.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Turning to to the items on the Agenda. . .
Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan, Monastery.
Soro Dagostino: It was postponed last time at the request of the Proponent.the
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Arria Perreault: Hello Moon
Arria Perreault:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moon
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — you have a motion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just ask for a short clarification?
Arria Perreault: Did you alreay ask for non RA members speakers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On “b. Discussion and Vote.” is to vote on Arria’s proposal, right?
Arria Perreault: I had an eye on Roland-GArros
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Arria, I’ve also missed that)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, I forgot the additional speakers.
Moon Adamant: I may wish to speak
Soro Dagostino: Please indicate your wish to speak.
Soro Dagostino: Moon.
Soro Dagostino: Arria?
Soro Dagostino: Pip?
Pip Torok: mo
Pip Torok: no
Sonja Strom: Pip is an RA Member, lol
Pip Torok is content to vote
Soro Dagostino: Just asking.
Arria Perreault: I wish to speak, if necessary
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Patroklus Murakami: apologies if i’m unfamiliar with the new procedures. do u need someone to move that the Monastery proposals be approved?
Patroklus Murakami: *proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… on II b
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus my question
Soro Dagostino: The matter was postponed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … not for today then?
Soro Dagostino: And it may not have been recorded.
Moon Adamant: i am sorry?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we approve the Monastery proposal i.e. Arria’s proposal, homestead sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then I second Pat
Soro Dagostino: The matter is open for discussion . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine that we do “II . 1. a. Report regarding accession of Monastery” first, of course.
Soro Dagostino: I note the chancellor did post a note about it this morning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Patroklus Murakami: i thought the report took place last week? is there anything further to be clarified?
Patroklus Murakami: i would hope that we are ready to approve the proposal now
Pip Torok agrees with Pat
Soro Dagostino: Any further discussion?
Soro Dagostino: Who would like to restate the motion before the vote?
Patroklus Murakami: happy to vote now
Gwyneth Llewelyn ‘s more than happy to vote as well
Patroklus Murakami: yes soro, that we approve the Monastery proposal from Arria, for purchase of a homestead class sim. as described in the following post from jamie viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2452
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I second again, just to be clear)
Soro Dagostino: That is accepted as the Motion before us.
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye !
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: 7 day rights have been noted.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re allowed to vote now too, Soro
Patroklus Murakami: yay!
Soro Dagostino: But it is by a majority of the body.
Soro Dagostino: Only if a tie.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so I would kindly request that this august body formally notifies the Chancellor of the approval, so that he might start to get the whole procedures rolling
Pip Torok wondered why Arria did not vote
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried in the form presented in the memo of the Chancellor.
Moon Adamant: Arria is not a rep, Pip
Soro Dagostino: Arria is not of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not this term, Pip
Pip Torok: ah sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Arria Perreault:
Soro Dagostino: Next matter please.
Soro Dagostino: The proposed Community Merger Bill — I believe Pat is the proponent.
Soro Dagostino: would you make your presentation?
Patroklus Murakami: certainly
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure we are all v excited about the merger with Al Andalus
Patroklus Murakami: it’s fantastic news that AA agreed to the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: we need to make some changes to our constitution tho for this to work
Patroklus Murakami: ours talks about the RA being ‘democratically elected factions’ for example
Patroklus Murakami: and it doesn’t really cater for merger scenarios
Patroklus Murakami: i put together a proposed constitutional amendment to help the AA merger take place and….
Patroklus Murakami: provide the flexibility for future mergers
Patroklus Murakami: it’s probably too long
Patroklus Murakami: but a good starting point for discussion
Patroklus Murakami: does everyone have a copy so they can ask questions/debate it?
Pip Torok: no …
Sonja Strom: me either
Gwyneth Llewelyn would kindly request for a copy or a link to the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
Sonja Strom: I have seen your post about that in the Forum
Soro Dagostino: There was comment by the Chancellor of this morning.
Sonja Strom: But I don’t know if you have changed it.
Sonja Strom: Received, thanks.
Pip Torok: received
Patroklus Murakami: i have not changed my proposal but i am grateful to jamie for offering thoughts and posting an alternative version
Soro Dagostino: You do not wish to have those suggested changes?
Pip Torok: I request time to digest the contents …
Soro Dagostino: Granted.
Soro Dagostino: We stand adjourned for five minutes
Patroklus Murakami: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine
Moon Adamant: sorry for the interruption… i am leaving now… be aware that there will be a Guild meeting at 11 AM
Moon Adamant: good wrok everyone!
Soro Dagostino: We do hope to be done.
Moon Adamant: work*
Moon Adamant waves
Soro Dagostino: Pip have you had enough time?
Soro Dagostino: Are we ready to reconvene?
Sonja Strom: Almost…
Sonja Strom: sorry, I am a slow reader.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you. Holding.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m ok, but I’m fine in waiting too
Sonja Strom: Ok, I can move forward –
Sonja Strom: thank you for the time.
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine, Sonja
Soro Dagostino: Getting the posts from this morning.
Pip Torok: I propose one amendmant in section 2 first sentence …
Patroklus Murakami: yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens and will also suggest some
Soro Dagostino: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453
Pip Torok: “at least a year” to “a year to 18 months” to clarify
Soro Dagostino: Pip — that is in order
Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
Sonja Strom: second
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Patroklus Murakami: accepted as a friendly amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn’s fine with that too
Soro Dagostino: Noted.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — you have the floor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A second suggestion, if I may, mr LRA…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the current merger (with Al Andaluz) stipulates a “special term” of 6 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Section 3 here suggests a three month term,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’d be effectively invalidating the previously passed bill
Soro Dagostino: Your proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might suggest, thus, some words like: “These RA members will serve a special term, from 3 to 6 months, after which a special CDS election will be held to fill the seats for the remainder of the term.”
Patroklus Murakami: happy to withdraw that section which refers to a three month special election – it was in square brackets to be optional
Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the house?
Sonja Strom: I would like to propose alternate wording to that.
Sonja Strom: “These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I prefer that
Soro Dagostino: No Motion is on the floor . .. except the main motion.
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn removes her motion and seconds Sonja’s
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to take sonja’s amendment as friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes it easier ? “special elections” can make it confusing
Gwyneth Llewelyn is also fine with that
Soro Dagostino: That will be the motion.
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Patroklus Murakami waits for others to speak/ask questions
Soro Dagostino: On the amended motion.
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would also suggest that we use the words between brackets as part of the final text
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Soro Dagostino: Then Gwyn
Pip Torok supports Gwyn in this
Sonja Strom: For the whole Consititutional Amendment Gwyn?
Patroklus Murakami: well, just that point really. i think the references to ‘democratic election’ are essential
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pat on that
Patroklus Murakami: but the other bits in square brackets are not
Soro Dagostino: Please folk.
Soro Dagostino: In order.
Sonja Strom raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: i am happy to yield to gwyn (i think) who was next
Soro Dagostino: She was.
Soro Dagostino: Sonja next.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was finished really, pat ? the suggestion for Section 3 would thus be: “If the agreement to merge takes place less than one month before the deadline for declaring candidates in the next scheduled RA election, the community joining the CDS may, using their own democratic methods, elect a number of representatives to fill Interim Added Seats in the RA. These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election.” (that’s Sonja’s words)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Pat and *Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m also supportive of the “…. using its own democratic methods… ” as part of the text
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest, well, I really have no STRONG urge to either keep them as suggested, or to remove them )
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m actually seconding’s Pat, Soro
Patroklus Murakami: sorry if i’m confusing matters. i have accepted those amends as friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Soro Dagostino: Ok..
Soro Dagostino: the question is before us.
Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote?
Patroklus Murakami: i will circulate a clean copy without square brackets when u r ready to vote
Sonja Strom raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Sonja
Sonja Strom: What do the brackets mean, and why do you want to put them into the Constitution? I think they are confusing.
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry about that. it was meant to provide flexibility. but it is confusing
Patroklus Murakami: i propose to take out [nonvoting] but include [democratic] Patroklus Murakami: in section 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that too
Soro Dagostino: A friendly amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: and take out ‘appointed’ and [to provide explicit liaison….] Soro Dagostino: Hold folk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… well spotted
Soro Dagostino: Take a few moments and get the motion in proper form.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, keep only “elected” (however they’re elected, is not of our concern)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Soro Dagostino: A recess?
Patroklus Murakami: i have a clean copy to circulate
Soro Dagostino: Ok, lets see it.
Sonja Strom: Would you please put a revision number at the end of its name?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ( thank you , Pat!)
Soro Dagostino: “Cleaned up” isn’t enough? )
Sonja Strom: (too late)
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: version control!
Pip Torok: no Soro!
Sonja Strom: right
Patroklus Murakami: did everyone get that?
Pip Torok: not me
Soro Dagostino: Recess for a few.
Soro Dagostino: Get it out as proposed.
Pip Torok: got it now
Soro Dagostino: Everyone ready?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, a question…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… just a small question
Soro Dagostino: Lets find out first if all are ready . .
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — your question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is it clear for everybody that the Interim Added Seats ‘expire’ on the next (regular) elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so ? and that might just be a question of my English being a second language ? I have nothing further to day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *say even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pip Torok: imo “interim” means just that gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Arria?
Arria Perreault: Sorry, I have crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Pip, that’s what I just wished to understand
Soro Dagostino: kk
Patroklus Murakami: sorr, missed a bit out
Soro Dagostino: Claude — do you have any comment ?
Patroklus Murakami: i may need to circulate v3
Sonja Strom raises hand
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Soro Dagostino: Claude the Sonja
Soro Dagostino: then*
Claude Desmoulins: I would note that if the join is greater than thirty days before an electtion…
Claude Desmoulins: …the text is clear as to the duration of the interim seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, if you change it again, just change the asterisks (the bullet points) to a), b), c)..
Patroklus Murakami: ‘server is experiencing difficulties’ just our luck
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek
Sonja Strom: naturally
Claude Desmoulins: In the other case (<30 days) there’s ambigiuity as to how long interim is. Since a regular term seat is six months, I think one could make a good argument that interim couldn’t be longer than athat else it wouldn’t be interim.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude, that was a bit in the same line of my own doubts…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I’ll hush now!!)
Sonja Strom: I don’t see that the cleaned up version has this sentence in Section 3., “These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election.”
Soro Dagostino: Sonja is next
Sonja Strom: done, thanks
Soro Dagostino: Lets wait for Pat.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… Sonja’s point was mine, too, as well as Claude’s
Pip Torok: wb Pat
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I seconded Sonja’s suggestion to add that sentence, because, in my mind, it clarifies the text much better on what is “interim”, and how long it takes.
Patroklus Murakami: just a sec, was trying to correct the note when i crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Soro Dagostino: Recess for 5 min.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, do you need a partial transcript?
Patroklus Murakami: yes pls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you are
Patroklus Murakami: okay, if i add sonja’s sentence at the end of section 3 does that work better?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes for me
Patroklus Murakami: then it covers both cases. less than 30 days and more than
Sonja Strom: for me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Patroklus Murakami: okay. i’ll recirculate v3
Soro Dagostino: Are we ready?
Sonja Strom: wait please Pat
Sonja Strom: I have one other item to discuss.
Soro Dagostino: Back to session?
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: In Section 2, what do wethink about this sentence: “Any sims owned by the community will merge as one territory with the CDS.”?
Sonja Strom: I’m not sure we should have that in as a requirement.
Patroklus Murakami: ah, i don’t mean ‘one contiguous territory’. they can still be in different places on the grid
Soro Dagostino: Do we need more time on this?
Patroklus Murakami: was that your concern sonja?
Sonja Strom: OK Pat, yes…
Sonja Strom: Could we maybe make the wording of that more clear?
Soro Dagostino: More discussion in the forum?
Pip Torok agrees with Sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, what about getting “half a community”?
Sonja Strom: Ah, good question Gwyneth.
Soro Dagostino: It looks as if we do?
Sonja Strom: Maybe we should work more on it before having a vote.
Soro Dagostino: Can this be postponed for a week?
Sonja Strom: (Sorry Patroklus)
Patroklus Murakami: no problem. it’s best to get it right than to rush it
Sonja Strom: I think the concept of it is really good, and am thankful to Patroklus for all his work on it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, *if* I read it right, the idea is that *for purposes of calculating the number of RA members (interim or future ones)* the citizens in the sims will be added to the head count of citizens.
Soro Dagostino: May I take that as a motion to postpone?
Soro Dagostino: Discussion in the forum.
Sonja Strom: I make the motion to postpone this issue to the next meeting.
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Pip Torok: seconded
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains (either way is fine for me)
Soro Dagostino: Tie — aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Soro Dagostino: Postponed till next week — June 13.
Patroklus Murakami: i will post v3 to the forums to continue the discussion
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Sonja Strom: Thank you Pat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Pat!
Soro Dagostino: That reaches the end of the special meeting agenda.
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, I second the motion to adjourn…
Pip Torok is ready
Sonja Strom: I move we adjourn.
Patroklus Murakami: aye. ready to adjourn
Soro Dagostino: Good.
Pip Torok: seconded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 14 June 2009

RA Minutes 14 June 2009 (3 parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:55 pm
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, Its after 0900
[9:06] Pip Torok: hi rose!
[9:06] Rose Springvale: hi everyone!
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all!
[9:06] Pip Torok: hi gwyn
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Rosie
[9:06] Rose Springvale:
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: hi rose, gwyn
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: We have a Quorum
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow love that dress, Cindy!!!
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: soro, I have a hard stop today at 10:30
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: thx!
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Heh! I wish I did!
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: recorder is running
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Could we begin?
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t see the recorder yet but definitely consents to be recorded
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: black box under the table gwyn, but doesn’t accept a “touch to consent” — consent in chat is fine.
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: consent to recordation
[9:08] Pip Torok: nor does Pip but he consents to be recorded
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: consent
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:08] Rose Springvale: consents as well
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh I b.?
[9:10] Pip Torok: Moon s bit out of date! ..
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Are there any changes to the Agenda?
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: sec…
[9:10] Rose Springvale: Soro, if i want to speak and offer changed to proposed amendments, do i indicate now?
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:10] Rose Springvale: *possibly*
[9:10] Rose Springvale: need to see how the discussion goes
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: But now is the time to change the Agenda.
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: Please note what it is you would like to add
[9:11] Rose Springvale: well, if we discuss constitutional amendments, i want to be in queue
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have some doubts on the strange headers for the agenda… e.g. why is a constitutional amendment put under “General Master Plan”, and why is a report by the SC under “culture, entertainment and sports”? Besides that, assuming that the proposed const. amendment that we discussed last week goes under III 1., I don’t object to the “strange headers”
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! I find it only amusing
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, I’d like to request that we deal with the AA stuff first since I need to leave at 10:30
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, once might consider that listening to CLaude or his representative is a “fine sport” …
[9:12] Rose Springvale gave you Elastic clause.
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: If you would like, you can write a form for us to use.
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with discussing AA first and seconds Cindy
[9:12] Pip Torok: shame if Pat isnt here by then, but …
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Soro… sure But I like funny, nonsense things too â€” they get to be part of the CDS tradition and make stronger bonds
[9:13] Pip Torok: (btw Pat will be about half-hour late
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Do you wish the chair to yield to you Gwyn?
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? I’m fine where I am, thank you very much
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: The form is the one that my predecessor left, Never saw another form.
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone, sorry i’m late
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Hello Pat.
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: interesting
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Pat!
[9:14] Pip Torok: Hi Pat!!
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: ah, here’s pat now!
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Any other changes proposed?
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: london transport! bah!
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: The Motion on the floor is to move item III 1 to be the first item of business.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: It has been seconded.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami looks for agenda
[9:16] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:16] Pip Torok: aye
[9:16] Cindy Ecksol: ball on floor pat
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn says aye (Pat: the small light blue ball)
[9:17] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Speakers?
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:18] Rose Springvale: no, i’m just a citizen, need to see what comes from the discussions
[9:18] Jamie Palisades: I expect so, yes
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol was wondering if we can get a review of where we’re at
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: We will get there.
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to second Cindy’s request too…
[9:18] Jamie Palisades raises eyebrow, looks to president officer, waits for agenda to unfold
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Brian reports he wants a 7 day vote right.
[9:19] Pip Torok: so does Sonja (if she hasnt given it already)
[9:19] Jamie Palisades: ah soryr, walked in a bit late I gather. which item exactly are we on?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Next meeting is June 28th, 2009 at 0900
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that date.
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Jamie: I d. and I e.)
[9:20] Cindy Ecksol requests 7 day vote
[9:20] Pip Torok: we agreed to move III1 to here
[9:20] Jamie Palisades: Ah. Thanks Pip. Shall I lead off?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: The point of information is that the Constitution Amendment matter postponed from last week is first on the substantive agenda.
[9:20] Jamie Palisades: thx, let me know where we’re there, sorry
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: The Proponent is first.
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: okay. i’ll try to be brief
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Please restate your motion.
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: i can’t access the forums right now so can’t give u a url
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — can you provide that information?
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: but i move the proposed constitutional amendment i circulated at last week’s meeting and posted on teh forums so we can debate the issue
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: is that okay?
[9:22] Rose Springvale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: That gets us started
[9:23] Jamie Palisades mutters – Pat’s last draft is here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&p=13405#p13403 and the others also appear in that thread
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Has every one read this information?
[9:23] Jamie Palisades: jinx Rose
[9:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol nods
[9:23] Pip Torok: could use two minutes to review it …
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: REcess is in order.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Please do.
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: We stand recessed for 5 min.
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, thank you
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: I hadn’t noticed that Pat is invisible?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: London must be trouble.
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: oh really? i’m visible to me!
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see him, Soro
[9:27] Jamie Palisades: Ladies & gentlemen, I put the last two drafts of which I am aware, Pat’s and mine, on a notecard, for anyone not on the web.
[9:27] Jamie Palisades: You’re clear as day to me also Pat
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Jamie! It’s sometimes hard to follow on the forums what slight changes have been made here and there on each suggestion.
[9:28] Jamie Palisades: (can discuss briefly in due course)
[9:29] Jamie Palisades gave you AA enabling legislation, latest drafts.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to reconvene?
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh I think so… that notecard helped a lot, btw
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Pip?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: cindy?
[9:30] Pip Torok: just about
[9:30] Cindy Ecksol: fine
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: kk
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Ok, lets get started.
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: You are the proponent
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry guys. This is one of those cases where I have to chose between democracy and not making anyone angry Tough choices, voting against my conscience…
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: well, i’ve taken on board the feedback from a number of peope about earlier drafts
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: they were too long
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: they undid the agreement with AA
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: i agree that we should not try to change the terms of an agreement we have put to AA through constitutional amendments!
[9:33] Cindy Ecksol nods
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, at least I can agree with that too!
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: so i have drafted a briefer version that essentially provides a framework for this merger and others
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn will be next — Pat would you continue
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: based on what has actually happened
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: the chancellor discussed the merger with AA on behalf of the CDS
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: the RA approved an agreement
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: this has the kinds of checks and balances we need to see between branches of govnt
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: i added in a role for the SC (which it kind of has anyway)
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: to validate the number of seats a new community gets in the RA post merger
[9:35] Jamie Palisades politely raises hand for queue, apparently after Gwyn
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Noted Jamie
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: it would not be appropriate for that solely to be an RA decsion in my opinion
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: the SC oversees elections and it is good to have one branch check and balance another
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all, happy to hear views
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: An amazing day — she is speechless
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: she’s typing, soro
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, actually my problem is how to frame this without hurting anybody’s feelings
[9:37] Jamie Palisades chuckles – Gwyn? typing
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Cindy…
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: That’s an issue in CDS?
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: Then maybe I can retire happy
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Jamie.
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[9:38] Pip Torok: apres un peu de temps le deluge!
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, I also think it’s important
[9:38] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Pip
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully not!
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway â€”
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is to make sure that the amended constitution does NOT prevent the AA merger to happen because we changed the conditions.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I think I have nothing against that. Seriously! I don’t want to lose the merger because of haggling.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is if we want a minimalistic change on the constitution (as Pat suggested) or a slightly larger version (as Jamie suggested)
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my mind, both are possible
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last thing, however, is what nags at me, and which I cannot understand,
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is leaving the choice open to:
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) citizens with twice the votes
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) RA members getting “appointed”, not elected
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) The CDS passing no judgement upon what “democracy” means; we have a good, working definition of what it means for the past 5 years
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: History sadly showed what these three points led to.
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And anything I’ll say next will offend you,
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I remain silent
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and let Jamie continue
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: jamie?
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: That’s quite a negative pregnant, Gwyneth 5 years? I though that was a putsch in 2005? No? ah well.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: Ok, thanks,. I have four points.
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4, then, if you prefer I’m not going to be picky
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol snickers
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: First an unqualified positive one.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: First, to echo Sonja, who’s not able to join us today: “One possible answer to these disputes might be to work toward an Amendment that would provide a general framework for mergers but not be so specific, allowing for more flexibility in individual situations. This could especially be true in the requirements we would have for the other communities and their sims. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p13381)
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: I agree, and this shorter version conforms to that view and I think we’re on the right track here.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: sceond
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: Second. I believe our constitution can – and should – support mergers, if the basic terms are fair and that it’s utter sophistry and lollygagging to try and set it up for failure. as I posted in detail — — we should NOT go into a merger leaving some hiole for someone to argue that what we agreed to is unconstitutional.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: It’s rude, and bad planning.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: So let’s fix it.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: For reasona I can decsribe if you like, i believ ethis meetign is your chance to do so.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: Third – there are two substantive issues.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: One is how AA selectes its transitional reps.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: Pat’s draft uses the word ‘democracy’ to let , well, someone, challange AA’s sel;ection after the fact.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: I disagree – that’s folly and not the way to treat a merger of equals.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: To quote SOnja again, She also made this one in the same post: “Of course we would want a merger to be popular, but I think this requirement might make it seem like the CDS would be controlling the person turning their sim(s) over to the CDS.”
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: so I have suggested that language be changed (see notecard) to let SC review any action — as it IS a CDS electio — but to make it clear in the constitution …
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: .. that any reasonable method consiste with the joinign estate’s past practice is legal.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: Fourth and final —
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: The Text pat most recently offered also changes the RA’s approved deal.
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: (I am getting IMs, and soryr, cannot read just now)
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: The bill you passed includes a minimum of 2
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: and includes a method for hanlding dual citizens
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: a metod with does NOT double count
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: as it woudl exclude anu dual citizens who stand with AA from the next CDS poll
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: so , sorry, but fooey to those who suggest otherwise
[9:47] Jamie Palisades:
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: in cas eyo miss the significance of this to AA
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: there are a lot of dual citizens
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: owuld they not reaosnable want peopel in their camp to be able to choise their camp?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: and\
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: whatever the emotional issues
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: the practical issue os that this is what the RA passed.
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: So
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: Atcion items
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: mr chairman, may i ask for a couple of points of clarification?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: – i recommend you pass the amended version i offered on the notecard.
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Hold for a moment Pat.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: – I suggest we note SOnja;s questio on the forum about 2/3r s versus m,ajority vote, out of courtesy to her
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: – and i suggest we disuss why this is probably the last meetign at which you can act, before AA will either join us, or walk.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: thank you
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: done, thx Soro
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Your third point is a suggested amendment?
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: not at all. Just a suggestiong that we understand the calendar’s effects on this legislation
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: can elaborate if and when desired
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: but the other two points are more important
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Is there an amendment that can be moved?
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Or are we to vote on the main motion?
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: I have offerd one in the notecardif someone wishes to do so
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: I move jamie’s note card to amend the proposal on th etable
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: but I don;t make motions here
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: I understand Jamie.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* (after Pat’s clarifications)
[9:50] Pip Torok: second
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Pip.
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: (It’s the same as the last forum post at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p13405 ) for the record
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Gywn — your next.
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat wanted to offer some clarifications…
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d prefer to have Pat first .9
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: i would like to seek a couple of clarifications
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: You are yielding the floor to pat?
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, *seek*. Yes, Soro, I am.
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: Pat.
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: firstly, i think that the AA residents are reasonable people so, if we hold a reasonable discussion here i can’t see why the choices are ‘decide or they walk’. why would the AA residents do that? it seems odd to me
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: jamie told us that there will be no double-counting
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: i’m really pleased to see that in writing
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: it was not clear to me at all, my reading of the agreement was that dual citizens would count twice
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: so some clarity on how they won’t would be very welcome
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to second Pat’s request too
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: secondly, can anyone tell us how AA intends to select its reps? i should have thought that this was something we could be told
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: and i think it is important to us as a democratic, self-governing community
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: I believe they did — early on.
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: no one wants to dictate that elections should be held in the same way as ours
[9:55] Pip Torok: I understand it will be by their usual means of discussion and resolution …
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: apologies soro. i must have missed that. could someone explain what ‘usual means of discussion and resolution’ means?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: and, if elections have been rejected, why? secret ballots are a good thing! are they not?
[9:56] Pip Torok: it means informal 4-5 mmeber meeting where an agreement is arrived at
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: those were my questions for clarification
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: pat, Pip and I can only speak of what has been the practice in AA
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: we have never had “elected officials”
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Heh! The same way we do it in the Factions.
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally seconds Pat’s requests, and will only need to get the floor later unless the questions don’t satisfy me
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *answers
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: everything is resolved by consensus — we talk about it, and eventually there’s a consensus tha twe all can live with
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy, please define “consensus”, so that it’s clear for us.
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it mean that all 31 AA citizens cast a vote by secret ballot?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: “consensus” means that we keep talkign until we have a solution that everyone interested can live with
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who is “we”?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: there are no ballots of any sort
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Town meeting.
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: anyone who is interested shows up for the regualr meetings
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: New England style.
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so adhocracy, like the guild, but instead of voting, everybody has to agree?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: all citizens who show up, vote
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.

(continued in next reply)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Minutes 14 June 2009 (3 parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:58 pm
(continued from previous post)

[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote, or agree with?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: or at least have a say
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: it’s very civilized, actually
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: and we’re willing to give all that up to join CDS!
[9:59] Pip Torok: unstructure? possiblt but Gwym … it works!
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip, I’m not questioning if it works or not ))
[9:59] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hands to offer some possible answers to Pat, waits
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A lot of models work
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’m happy to hear Jamie too, so I’ll hush
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: thx’
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: If I may offer some answers to Pat. I have tried to approach this like a corporate lawyer — oddly enough, that being my career — structure a deal that’s attractive to both, and legal, and then do a deal in good faith. So I often try to look at this from AA’s side as well.
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: With that in mind.
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: (1) Pat asks about double counting. I believe we will need to do approximately as he said in one of his drafts — let any dual citizen who elects AA count for AA but NOT vote in the next CDS election for RA.
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: I think that’s the inevitable outcoemn of the adpopted bill, taken together with our constitution’s prexisting rules
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Attribution?
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: … which i believe would drequire the avoidance of any obvious doublecounting
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: soro that was in one of his earlier drafts, where he thought it wise to drop all that detail into the constitution
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: but we agree conmpletely on the principle
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: (2) Pat asks about AA “walking.” My words, not from anyone in AA. It is my view.. and only mine …
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: , that if I were them, and we did a deal with them (see the approved bill) … but then later by our legislative record made it clear we were going to try and undo it in the SC … well, I’d not consummate the deal with a bunch of, ah, promise-breakers. Period.
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: that’s the basic point of my forum post yesterday
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: finally
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: i just respectfulyl disagree with the idea that Gwyn and Pat have that we should interrogate AA as to its method of initial selection
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[10:03] Pip Torok agrees with Jamie
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: if we think they’re muslim dictators or autocrats, p[ease move to undo the eeal not tell them how to trun their transition
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: as sonja said
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: ask=/=interrogate
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: we don;t win by telling them how to do their thing
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: and
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: the SC COULD, under the amendment on the table ..
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: UNDO
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: an unfair unreasonable approach
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: but tellign them exactly how to proceed? Infantile and naive, sorry
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: this is a merger
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: not a fire sale
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: asking, not telling
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just asking, Jamie
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: sorry, but i don;t think some of us quite understand how offensive that point is to AA
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Gavel on the podium
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Before the body is the amendment.
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready for that question?
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to speak agianst the amendment so no
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: noted.
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: I thought you had Pat?
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: no, not against jamie’s amendment as moved by cindy
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn, you to.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He asked questions…
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: (I would like to reserve a chance after wards to talk about sonja;s issue, and the timing of this act if it passes)
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Pat — you may proceed.
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: ty to jamie for clarifying
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami: i am relaxed on the double counting issue and, on the method by which AA selects its reps, i don’t plan to die in ditch!
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: i think that jamie’s amendment adds too much to the constitution tho in terms of detail that should be in a merger agreement
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: uh oh – don;t know that colloquialism. Don’t die, Pat, we just got you BACK
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: the intention of my revised amendment was to strip all that out
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: (i won’t stand on principle about it)
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: and give more discretion to the chancellor to make a deal that works
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: and seek RA approval
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: so i am opposed to the amendment, that’s all
[10:10] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hand after gwyn
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I’m usually for having good frameworks,
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand that each merger case will be quite different from the next,
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we cannot really predict what will come next… so,
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: under that assumption,
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer, like on Pat’s “minimalistic” amendment proposal,
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to give the Chancellor a wider margin of negotiation.
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In particular, as you have noticed,
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m quite sensitive on any subversive strategies of pushing “appointed” people into the RA, no matter how “nice” they are.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still haven’t amended the Constitution Art I – 1 “The Representative Assembly (RA) is a body of democratically elected factions which represent different ideological views of its citizens.”
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose that we restrain outselves to load the constitution with an amendment,
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that can, in a certain light, void that fundamental principle.
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Is that a proposed amendment to the current motion?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat’s much smaller amendment doesn’t make any “special requirements” and gives the Chancellor a free hand in negotiating,
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a new motion, Soro. I’m fine in voting both.
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Are you making a new motion?
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Please so state?
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: (I think not, “Pat’s smaller amendment” was the original Pat mpotion here)
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I propose that we vote on Pat’s “shorter amendment” as per the notecard distributed byJamie earlier
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: there’s a motion on the table to amend that we need to vote on first
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
Add at end of Article I, Section 1 (The Representative Assembly): “The RA approves merger agreements with other communities.”
Add at end of Article II, Section 2 (c) (Powers of The Chancellor): “and to enter into merger discussions with other communities”
Insert after first paragraph, Article III, Section 8 (Powers of the SC): “The SC approves the number of interim additional RA seats for a community joining the CDS using the formula in Article I, Section 2.”
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (to be clear )
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: i think we need to vote on the amendment first?
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: I do to.
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Call the question?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not finished… hehe
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: (sorry, i THINK the choice is between Pat’s original motion here, in favor of which G and P are speaking, and the amendment to it moved by Pip, aginst which G and P speak)
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll call the question
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … when finished…
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that ok?
[10:16] Jamie Palisades smiles, shrugs, is in queue, but it’s up to the body
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: I asked if you had a new motion?
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol thinks perhaps gwyn is overtime?
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Or are in statements against the current question on the floor
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh gosh. Not again! I wouldn’t be if you’d keep interupting
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Come on guys.
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s mostly unfair.
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: The question is before you.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I feel that I’m in a minority here defending a representative democracy Am I not allowed a last stand before the deluge?
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: (fwiw, she’s speaking against the current motion to amend, Mr. LRA, seems entirely appropriate to me even if we disagree )
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having two options to select for an amendment, I’m just suggesting one that at least still preserves some hope that we remain a representative democracy in the furture…
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: I understand.
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A point here which I *have* to make…
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, we will have more opportunities for mergers.
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: You can finsih quickly?
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: Your time is up.
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I will hope that the conditions are set equally to both sides.
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I will certainly, as a citizen of the CDS and a member of the RA;
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to be fully allowed
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to inspect, question, ask, and interrogate,
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anything I wish on any other community that wishes to merge with us;
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I fully expect that community to do the same to us.
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: (Are we watching the clock, senators?)
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I don’t want to be told “you have no right to ask”
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: Your time is up.
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: The question is called.
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:21] Pip Torok: aye
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I don’t wish to blindly go ahead with having a Samocles’ sword on top of my head, preventing me to ask questions.
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: A tie.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Now for the main question, as modified.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we have the “main question as modified” again, just for the record? (notecards don’t get in the transcript otherwise)
[10:23] Pip Torok agrees
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:23] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: hm – ah there we go, second half of card
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: drat….
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: last bit is missing
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just the second half, right?
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: did I get it all?
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: may I just say again for the record, the text is here – viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p13405
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: no
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: ah, better idea…
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That works better, Jamie
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: link to the forum will make it to the transcript
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:25] Soro Dagostino: We have the motion.
[10:25] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:25] Soro Dagostino: Pip?
[10:26] Pip Torok: aye
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: All opposed?
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: Tie vote. Chair votes Aye
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: May I confirm, as a point of honor, Mr LRA, whether as a consitutional amendment this will require five votes to pass, and thus depends on the 7 day votes from Brian and Sonja?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh how? It’s a constitutional amendment…
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Thank you all.
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. not quite…
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: needs 5/7 to pass
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie’s point is correct.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: Gywn you agree with me on that, yes? anyone disagree?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Totally agree, Jamie.
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Ah — a consensus
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[10:28] Jamie Palisades waits to hear other views, raises hand on the timing issue
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we need Brian & Sonja to vote.
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: thanks
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: so final status deferred
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: yes
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: my point exactly – if i may
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: 1. there is no agreement wether the bill is needed to make the AA legslation conform to the constitutuion
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: some thins do
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: and I see our SC is merrily plannig to meet tomorrow,
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: do we know what is on the SC agenda?
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: but wehave not been informed yet of a challenge, smile, so if they use due process, perhaps that;’s not why
[10:30] Pip Torok cd make a guess!
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: oh of course not the star cha,ber – sorry SC – doesn;t work that way apparently
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: but
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: anyway
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: here’s the thing on timing
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: a week from today
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: at latest
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: we will have the vote
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: (giving B and S their full 7 days)
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: we could have the vote as early as tomorrow…
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: that’s the 21st
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: on the 25th
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: which is dthe day before CDS RA filings open
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: AA will as a prctical matter need to decide whether to consummate the deal with us
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: and for reasons I woulc explain but feel surpfluous here
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: i expect they’d declien if this does not pass
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: so that’s wher ewe are. Thanks
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: *superfluous
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: done Soro, just wanted to point out the “ticking clock” issue
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks. I wouldn’t be so dramatic, Jamie
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: I must fly to RL, all. will be interested to read the rest of the transcript
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye CIndy)
[10:33] Jamie Palisades chuckles, re-reads your last postings. Oh?
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill for the merger with AA *was* passed
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: bye cindy
[10:33] Pip Torok: bye!
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Bye C.
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: just for backup I’m going to leave my av here until it times out…
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The constititional amendment, if it’s NOT passed, will NOT influence the AA merger bill
[10:34] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hand
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, the SC might have a saying tomorrow â€”but only on the constititional amendment,
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Your next Jamie.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the bill itself was not declared void by the SC, so it stands.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all.
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: excellent point on the SC’s deadline for attacking the bill, thanks, Gwyn.
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: All here may not be aware, as former SC Deans and LRA s are, that they have a limited time to undo legislation
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: however
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: they can undo actions
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: like say
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: an AA seletion that someone does not think is enough like CDS’s
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: unless of course the bill now pending keeps them from doign so
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: finally
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: i respectfulyl disagree with Gwyn’s suggetsion that she is being shut up or railroaded … since a suggestion has been made that we are railroading the hon. senator, may I mention that she has had weeks, nay, months to raise her points, … this is hardly the first time .. we have had many meetings, and the forums are full of the views of her factions and others. No new questions were raised today, and filibusters using old points are unbecoming. So I respectfully disagree that there’s unfairness here in the RA’ actions. Let all those who support and oppose this be honest on the record about their intents Thank you
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, Jamie, some of us have time to write on the forums, others have time to attend RA meetings. That’s all.
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: thank you both for your views.
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Returning to the Agenda
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Chancellor’s report.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades chuckles. May I also say that Pat’s drafting here, even though we disagree on some points, has been helpful and constructive throughout. Glad to have you back, sir.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: short report
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: we bought the Monastery sim
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie much appreciated
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: we’re almost sold out of CDS land
[10:38] Pip Torok feels his day is made …
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: superb news
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very, very good news!
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: so the small monastery plots will help fill new needs
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: AA, should we be allowed by Brian and SOnja;s votes to proceed, ALSO is now almost sold out
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: so wow
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: probably whoever is chancellor next term will come back to you for abnother sim before year end
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: and
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: we are still solvent
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: cheers — mor of a report next time on events, which also has been a busy successful area
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
[10:40] Soro Dagostino: YAY!
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: (Cindy is applauing in her mind, I am sure)
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, any idea when LL is placing that sim on the map?
[10:41] Soro Dagostino: Item V on the Agenda . . . is there a proponent here
[10:41] Pip Torok wonders whether “Now we are five” is appropriate
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Pip
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: Claude was online.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who from the SC will make the presentation? (yes, I saw him online a while ago…)
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: May I have a motion to postpone?
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me just see if he’s on Gtalk…
[10:43] Pip Torok: motion to postpone
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: seconded
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no, he isn’t) â€” so I’ll second Pip’s motion
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: thank you.
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: Non-debateable
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:44] Pip Torok: aye
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: Carried
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: Any other business to come before us?
[10:44] Rose Springvale: can i make announcments?
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: (I hope all of you have noticed the events placard rezzed in front of you)
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: Yes — this is the time
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: please ?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: okay, next saturday CDS kicks of GRand Tour iii
[10:45] Rose Springvale: here is the schedule.. notecard inside with details
[10:45] Rose Springvale: It woudl be really great if you all could put in apprearances… we get LOTS of interest from this
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Also, we’ve had our first Oktoberfest meeting, so if you have input on those events, PLEASE let me know
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: (Has been a big recruiting tool for us in the past — our last run on this was the ski slope event if you recall)

(continued in next reply)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Minutes 14 June 2009 (3 parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:00 pm
(continued from previous reply)

[10:46] Rose Springvale: whoever is in charge of events next term wont’ have long to work on it after 8/1
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: cool
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Also, though he didn’t mention and i’ll get in trouble
[10:46] Soro Dagostino: Great work!
[10:47] Rose Springvale: our chancellor has secured a prime exhibit space for SL6B
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh that’s excellent news!!
[10:47] Jamie Palisades: And everyone please go to the ROMA stop and tell Torin to merge with us, grin
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we might, Jamie, we might!)
[10:47] Rose Springvale: And we’ve put kiosks up in Caledons Oxbridge Village Gateway, with info for both CDS and AA
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, do you wish any suggestions for events to be held on the SL6B spot?
[10:48] Rose Springvale: if you have ideas for events, send them to me
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: May we adjourn before we go into this?
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: um gwyn we have specifically been asked to do displays and NOT big crowd draw live events
[10:48] Rose Springvale: thanks soro
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: not us – everyone – they have a big ol music program already
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww such a pity, Jamie. But alas. The Linden Will Shall Be Done.
[10:48] Rose Springvale: but WE always need event ideas L)
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn?
[10:48] Rose Springvale:
[10:48] Pip Torok: Amen!
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: (oops sorry waiting for adjournment)
[10:49] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[10:49] Pip Torok: aye
[10:49] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: Done! Thank you all.

Permalink.

12th Representative Assembly (9)

RA Meeting 7 February 2010

Agenda

I. ADMIN
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: rhythm of meetings
e. Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure
f. Update of the CDS group and the and the portraits

II. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA(-)
–

III. NEW ITEMS
a. Introductory Speech
b. RA discussion on this term’s priorities
c. RA Archivist
d. LRA pro tempore
e. Election Chancellor for next meeting
c. Inaugural Ball

IV. Concerns of RA Members

V. Concerns of Citizens

VI. Adjournment
Transcription

[2010/02/07 9:12] Arria Perreault: Delia and Sudane, I let you start
[2010/02/07 9:12] Delia Lake: It would of course be most preferable to have Stui here but if that is not possible we can administer the affirmation to him later
[2010/02/07 9:12] Delia Lake: Sudane?
[2010/02/07 9:12] Arria Perreault: she brought the stick
[2010/02/07 9:12] Sudane Erato: is there something i should do other than stand here? 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:12] Arria Perreault: o
[2010/02/07 9:13] Arria Perreault: no 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[2010/02/07 9:13] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2010/02/07 9:13] Delia Lake: let me start then
[2010/02/07 9:14] Arias Ahren: Hellow everyone.
[2010/02/07 9:14] Rose Springvale: Hi Arias, welcome 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:15] Arias Ahren: Hi Rose. which is the section for the audience
[2010/02/07 9:15] Delia Lake: The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state.
[2010/02/07 9:15] Jamie Palisades: good morning, forgive my being slow, I’m an iPhone cloud this morning 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:15] Rose Springvale: the chairs 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:15] Delia Lake: One of the freedoms embodied in our Constitution is that of religious choice as specified in one of its Founding Documents,
the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
[2010/02/07 9:15] Delia Lake: Out of our respect for diverse religious beliefs about taking oaths as well as for RA members who may be non-religious, the
following affirmation does not contain any referrences to any supernatural entities.
[2010/02/07 9:15] Delia Lake: However, anyone taking office who may wish to do so may add the words “So help me God” [or any other entity] at the end, if
they wish so.
[2010/02/07 9:16] Delia Lake: They may also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined.
[2010/02/07 9:17] Delia Lake: in the interest of some order here, and to prevent my missing anyone, we will start with Arria, and then follow around
clockwise from my perspective
[2010/02/07 9:17] Delia Lake: you each have a copy of the affirmation
[2010/02/07 9:17] Delia Lake: please repeat after me
[2010/02/07 9:17] Delia Lake: Arria. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:17] Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Delia Lake: Pat. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of
Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and
allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Delia Lake: Gwyn. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Delia Lake: Mikelo. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Mikelo Serevi: I, Mikelo Serevi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:18] Delia Lake: Lilith. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Lilith Ivory: I, Lilith Ivory, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Delia Lake: Caro. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Carolyn Saarinen: I, Carolyn Saarinen, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Delia Lake: Pip. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation
of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Delia Lake: Gelf. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:19] Gelf Yalin: I, Gelf Yalin, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators,
do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the
Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:20] Delia Lake: Timo. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:20] Timo Gufler: I, Timo Gufler, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the
Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:20] Delia Lake: Imotali. I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:20] Imotali Antiesse: I, Imotali Antiesse, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic
Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to
the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help
me, Ya Allah.
[2010/02/07 9:21] Delia Lake: Congratulations to all of you. on behalf of the entire Scientific Council. You now constitute the RA of the Confederation of
Democratic Simulators.
[2010/02/07 9:21] Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2010/02/07 9:21] Patroklus Murakami: Hurrah!
[2010/02/07 9:21] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[2010/02/07 9:21] Mikelo Serevi: 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:22] Rose Springvale: yay, you made it Keila
[2010/02/07 9:22] Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2010/02/07 9:22] Arria Perreault: Thank you very much, Delia 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:22] Keila Forager: I flew
[2010/02/07 9:22] Delia Lake: you’re very welcome
[2010/02/07 9:22] Lilith Ivory: applause
[2010/02/07 9:22] Soro Dagostino: God help us all
[2010/02/07 9:22] Sudane Erato: i agree Soro
[2010/02/07 9:22] Arria Perreault: We can open the first meetinf of the 12th RA now
[2010/02/07 9:23] Arria Perreault: I have published an agenda on the forum and there is an updated version in the amphora
[2010/02/07 9:23] Arria Perreault: we will start with the administrative part of the meeting
[2010/02/07 9:24] Arria Perreault: I ask the member to agree to be recorded
[2010/02/07 9:24] Arria Perreault: and all people who intend to speak during this meeting
[2010/02/07 9:24] Arria Perreault: the recorder is on the table
[2010/02/07 9:26] Jamie Palisades: Arria, I cannot click it (iPhone client) but consent to being recorded.
[2010/02/07 9:26] Arria Perreault: I see in my mails that the tool is working
[2010/02/07 9:26] Arria Perreault: Thank you Jamie 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:27] Arria Perreault: Next point : Agenda
[2010/02/07 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I move to approve it, if nobody else has anything new to add…
[2010/02/07 9:27] Arria Perreault: I have added few points
[2010/02/07 9:27] Patroklus Murakami: seconded
[2010/02/07 9:27] Pip Torok: second
[2010/02/07 9:27] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[2010/02/07 9:28] Sudane Erato: speech speech! 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/02/07 9:28] Arria Perreault: do you agree with this agenda?
[2010/02/07 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Gelf Yalin: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Timo Gufler: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Rose Springvale: hi Rowan, welcome!
[2010/02/07 9:28] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/02/07 9:28] Rowan Aurbierre: Thanks and hi Rose
[2010/02/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Sudane, that’s III a., we’re still at I. b. 🙂 )
[2010/02/07 9:29] Sudane Erato: oh
[2010/02/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2010/02/07 9:29] Arria Perreault: the agenda is accepted
[2010/02/07 9:30] Arria Perreault: Next point: Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[2010/02/07 9:30] Arria Perreault: who asks?
[2010/02/07 9:30] Arria Perreault: who want to speak during this meeting?
[2010/02/07 9:31] Carolyn Saarinen: I may have a minor point on I.f, initially
[2010/02/07 9:31] Carolyn Saarinen: or on other new business as it becomes clear
[2010/02/07 9:31] Rose Springvale: won’t know til specifics are discussed
[2010/02/07 9:32] Soro Dagostino: I expect to commment on just about everything
[2010/02/07 9:32] Pip Torok: agree with Rose
[2010/02/07 9:32] Jamie Palisades: arria, I may have a question about your chancellor selection timing 🙂 and whatever else is on agenda but not ecplained
[2010/02/07 9:32] Soro Dagostino: Not a good way to limity democracy
[2010/02/07 9:33] Arria Perreault: anybody else?
[2010/02/07 9:33] Mikelo Serevi: if we don’t speak up now,we remain silent?
[2010/02/07 9:33] Gelf Yalin: i may want to speak later
[2010/02/07 9:33] Arria Perreault: RA members can speak
[2010/02/07 9:34] Soro Dagostino: Apparently
[2010/02/07 9:34] Mikelo Serevi: I thought so, but I’m a little new to this
[2010/02/07 9:34] Arria Perreault: I am asking the citizen who are in the praetorium
[2010/02/07 9:34] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:34] Patroklus Murakami: RA members can speak on any issue mikelo. the LRA asks for speakers in case citizens have things they particularly
want to speak on. it helps to keep discussion going 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:34] Pip Torok: ah, I believe our delegation didn’t realise that, Arria
[2010/02/07 9:34] Mikelo Serevi: I just wanted to clarify, thank you
[2010/02/07 9:35] Patroklus Murakami: no problem 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:35] Arria Perreault: sorry. I should have given an information
[2010/02/07 9:36] Arria Perreault: Next point: Future RA schedule: rhythm of meetings
[2010/02/07 9:36] Soro Dagostino: Giving birth?
[2010/02/07 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro!
[2010/02/07 9:36] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2010/02/07 9:36] Arria Perreault: Pat?
[2010/02/07 9:36] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2010/02/07 9:36] Tomatoe Launcher: Enter Mouselook to shoot me!
[2010/02/07 9:36] Tomatoe Launcher: Could not find animation ‘hold_L_handgun’
[2010/02/07 9:36] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[2010/02/07 9:37] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to propose that, in between our formal RA meetings, we hold informal ‘Town Hall’ meetings open to all.
perhaps the next one coudl be before our next scheduled meeting and in Al Andalus?
[2010/02/07 9:37] Tomatoe Launcher: Could not find animation ‘hold_L_handgun’.
[2010/02/07 9:38] Arria Perreault: does it mean that we meet every two weeks?
[2010/02/07 9:38] Patroklus Murakami: this would give citizens direct input into our work in a less formal setting and continue some of the traditions of Al
Andalus/ i would prefer to hold formal RA meetings every two weeks
[2010/02/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So RA would meet one week; then the next week we’d have an informal Town Hall; then another RA meeting… and so forth?
[2010/02/07 9:39] Patroklus Murakami: yes gwyn 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, sorry — just to clarify.
[2010/02/07 9:39] Pip Torok: no imo 2-wk RA meetings plus any number of AA meetings
[2010/02/07 9:39] Carolyn Saarinen: who would have thought of that? 😉
[2010/02/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah… ok, Pip… no set number
[2010/02/07 9:39] Patroklus Murakami: sure, the more the merrier!
[2010/02/07 9:40] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2010/02/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so long as they’re part of the regular events list so we know when they are…
[2010/02/07 9:40] Pip Torok agrrees with gwyn
[2010/02/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or else they’d be TOO informal 😀
[2010/02/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/02/07 9:40] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[2010/02/07 9:40] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/02/07 9:40] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2010/02/07 9:40] Arria Perreault: Rose?
[2010/02/07 9:41] Carolyn Saarinen: I propose we call them ‘Stui’s Talking Hour’ to be really original.
[2010/02/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Caro 😉
[2010/02/07 9:41] Pip Torok: LOL
[2010/02/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2010/02/07 9:41] Rose Springvale: i’m unclear, this is something the RA wishes to govern? as AA citizens always have many informal meetings, and i think it
is wrong to limit that
[2010/02/07 9:41] Patroklus Murakami: if i may clarify?
[2010/02/07 9:41] Pip Torok: my point Rose …
[2010/02/07 9:41] Rose Springvale: and they don’t generally calendar them.
[2010/02/07 9:41] Arria Perreault: yes, Pat, please
[2010/02/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/02/07 9:42] Patroklus Murakami: the proposal is to hold CDS Town Hall meetings. they would inform the work of this body.
[2010/02/07 9:42] Patroklus Murakami: the model is, in part, AAs ‘Town Hall’ meetings. but they would be open to all and might take place all over the cDS
[2010/02/07 9:43] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we hold the first one in AA to honour AAs tradtions and to continue the work of merging the political and
cultural systems of the two communities. that’s all 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: may I add something?
[2010/02/07 9:43] Pip Torok agrees
[2010/02/07 9:43] Arria Perreault: yes, Gwyn
[2010/02/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, one important thing to remember is that the right of assembly is given, that is nothing the government can take
away …
[2010/02/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understand these “Town Halls” correctly,
[2010/02/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the point is just that at least most RA reps will be attending, right?
[2010/02/07 9:44] Pip Torok: uviv Dec of Human Rights article 20 … to be precise
[2010/02/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. it’ll be a duty
[2010/02/07 9:44] Rose Springvale: if you aren’t suggesting replacing the conversations already going on, no problem. STH for example, doesn’t limit itself
to SL issues, often taking on real issues
[2010/02/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thanks for the reference, Pip!)
[2010/02/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Rose
[2010/02/07 9:45] Patroklus Murakami: i would encourage RA members to attend. i would hope most would try to attend (time zones are tricky things tho!)
[2010/02/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the point would be… having a time… where citizens can yell at their reps… make sure they’re heard… on a less
informal way than here at the RA
[2010/02/07 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes, of course, Pat — time zones and personal schedules permitting 😀
[2010/02/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: transcripted?
[2010/02/07 9:46] Patroklus Murakami: yes 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: transcripted too, I believe
[2010/02/07 9:46] Patroklus Murakami: yes rose
[2010/02/07 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, this starts to require a bill lol
[2010/02/07 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to formalise the informal gathering 😉
[2010/02/07 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[2010/02/07 9:46] Arria Perreault: Any other comment on the proposal of Pat?
[2010/02/07 9:46] Solomon Mosely: ‘yelling at reps…’?
[2010/02/07 9:47] Jamie Palisades: eel, transcripted, will need a convener then
[2010/02/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just my figure of speech, Solomon 😀
[2010/02/07 9:47] Mikelo Serevi: well, maybe we can see how it goes
[2010/02/07 9:47] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s a good idea
[2010/02/07 9:47] Solomon Mosely: you must be a rep? 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:47] Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s been said that this body often strains like an elephant and produces a gnat. i think this should be an easy
win without too much formality 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:47] Solomon Mosely: well, does the mob need a bill to meet? are these mandatory for rep attendance?
[2010/02/07 9:47] Pip Torok agrees with Pat
[2010/02/07 9:47] Soro Dagostino: Sounds like an effort to keep the masses from talking at RA
[2010/02/07 9:47] Lilith Ivory: Pat, I wonder if you suggest that to keep people out of the regular RA meetings
[2010/02/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, Solomon.
[2010/02/07 9:47] Solomon Mosely: right
[2010/02/07 9:48] Mikelo Serevi: I second the proposal
[2010/02/07 9:48] Patroklus Murakami: certainly not
[2010/02/07 9:48] Solomon Mosely: what proposal?
[2010/02/07 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: most definitely not!
[2010/02/07 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I second Pat’s suggestion with Pip’s amendment (no set dates), having them transcripted, RA members attending, and the necessity of setting it on the events list 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:48] Patroklus Murakami: it’s not intended to keep ppl out of RA meetings
[2010/02/07 9:48] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Gwyn
[2010/02/07 9:48] Rose Springvale: time of day?
[2010/02/07 9:48] Arria Perreault: We can vote
[2010/02/07 9:48] Lilith Ivory: ok Pat
[2010/02/07 9:48] Patroklus Murakami: citizens should always be welcome to attend at RA and speak
[2010/02/07 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no set time, as per Pip’s suggestion, Rose
[2010/02/07 9:48] Solomon Mosely: are you voting on having no n mandatory, unlisted, informal meetings?
[2010/02/07 9:48] Solomon Mosely: relly?
[2010/02/07 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: informal in the proceedings 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:48] Jamie Palisades: oh, fooey sorority, let’s see the experiment tried. not like Stui’s meetings quelled RA debate 😀
[2010/02/07 9:49] Solomon Mosely: uh huh
[2010/02/07 9:49] Arria Perreault: Pat, can yyou reformulate your proposal, so it is clear for everyone?
[2010/02/07 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please.
[2010/02/07 9:49] Rose Springvale: there would be no voting, so no issues with quorum right?
[2010/02/07 9:49] Solomon Mosely: how about scheduled regional meetings on the off RA weeks? like a CN meeting, an LA merting, etc…
[2010/02/07 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (exactly, Rose)
[2010/02/07 9:49] Solomon Mosely: or faction meetings?
[2010/02/07 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Regional meetings is a great idea, Solomon! As for faction meetings, the way they organise themselves is up to them …
[2010/02/07 9:50] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that the RA hold a meeting next week in AA. Town Hall format. No votes, quorum or decisions. all citizens
welcome and free to speak and participate. i suggest we use teh same time as this meeting as a starting point.
[2010/02/07 9:50] Jamie Palisades grins & pretends his iPhone did NOT spell “Soro” as “sorority” …
[2010/02/07 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:50] Arria Perreault: Thank you Pat
[2010/02/07 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I was wondering, Jamie… hehe )
[2010/02/07 9:50] Arria Perreault: RA members who agree with Pat’s proposal say aye
[2010/02/07 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2010/02/07 9:50] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[2010/02/07 9:50] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/02/07 9:51] Solomon Mosely: i just mean, if you’re going to vote on someht8ing, then how about a real meeting with times, otherwise it seems like
you’re voting on the fact that maybe getting together icould be a good idea
[2010/02/07 9:51] Patroklus Murakami just set a date and time….
[2010/02/07 9:51] Gelf Yalin: AYE
[2010/02/07 9:51] Pip Torok thinks Sol’s proposal would smother real participation
[2010/02/07 9:51] Timo Gufler: abstain
[2010/02/07 9:51] Solomon Mosely: i ddnt propose anything
[2010/02/07 9:51] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/02/07 9:51] Solomon Mosely: aye
[2010/02/07 9:52] Imotali Antiesse: for a try, aye
[2010/02/07 9:52] Patroklus Murakami: i think my ‘aye’ is implicit but here it is anyway!
[2010/02/07 9:52] Carolyn Saarinen: So long as we all realise that citizen’s don’t need RA permission to talk, then aye.
[2010/02/07 9:52] Patroklus Murakami: of course caro!
[2010/02/07 9:52] Arria Perreault: I say aye too
[2010/02/07 9:52] Soro Dagostino: LOL
[2010/02/07 9:52] Sonja Strom: hehe
[2010/02/07 9:52] Carolyn Saarinen: I mean, the meetings will happen anyway, thay have so far!
[2010/02/07 9:53] Arria Perreault: 8 aye, 1 abstention, motion corries
[2010/02/07 9:53] Mikelo Serevi: I think the intent is to reach out, not to lock down
[2010/02/07 9:53] Pip Torok: very true!
[2010/02/07 9:53] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[2010/02/07 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, of course! when two citizens log in to SL and chat about the CDS, it’s a meeting 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:53] Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂 shall i liaise with rose to set it up? sensible next step?
[2010/02/07 9:53] Arria Perreault: We will contact Rose to find a location in AA for this meeting
[2010/02/07 9:53] Rose Springvale: welcome Ariel
[2010/02/07 9:53] Rose Springvale: sure, lots of places
[2010/02/07 9:54] Ariel Feden: hey there
[2010/02/07 9:54] Arria Perreault: Next point: Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure
[2010/02/07 9:54] Arria Perreault: Only a reminder. The rules are published in the CDS portal: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[2010/02/07 9:55] Arria Perreault: I would appreciate a lot that any proposal is published on the forums few days before meetings
[2010/02/07 9:55] Lilith Ivory: uhm … so the RA meets every 14 days at 9am right?
[2010/02/07 9:55] Arria Perreault: yes
[2010/02/07 9:55] Lilith Ivory: ok thanks 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: should we vote on that?
[2010/02/07 9:56] Soro Dagostino: Why not?
[2010/02/07 9:56] Arria Perreault: On the rules of procedures?
[2010/02/07 9:56] Timo Gufler: do we have other choices?
[2010/02/07 9:56] Mikelo Serevi: does anyone disagree?
[2010/02/07 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… on the date & time of meetings
[2010/02/07 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Mikelo, let’s be practical… does anyone disagree with the date & time? 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:57] Arria Perreault: was it not implicit with the previous vote?
[2010/02/07 9:57] Rose Springvale hates the date and time of RA meetings, but is not a rep 🙂
[2010/02/07 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that was for the Town Hall meetings….
[2010/02/07 9:57] Carolyn Saarinen: I would only suggest, that we not be rigid on that…
[2010/02/07 9:57] Patroklus Murakami: i think any discussion of date/time of meetings is better taken offline. if there’s no disagreement, let’s agree to
fortnightly Sundays at 9am SLT
[2010/02/07 9:57] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I think it was
[2010/02/07 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I second Pat’s suggestion then.
[2010/02/07 9:57] Arria Perreault: if not, let’s make a motion and find a second
[2010/02/07 9:57] Carolyn Saarinen: It may prove difficult for someone..
[2010/02/07 9:58] Carolyn Saarinen: so long as there is proper notice, it may be best to have some flexibility.
[2010/02/07 9:58] Gelf Yalin: very good time 4 me
[2010/02/07 9:58] Solomon Mosely: is it a Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure to revote on all exsisting Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure
when a new RA is voted in?
[2010/02/07 9:58] Timo Gufler: fairly good for me, but not perfect
[2010/02/07 9:58] Patroklus Murakami: let’s use this as our default time and, if ppl have problems with it, change it?
[2010/02/07 9:59] Mikelo Serevi: good idea, pat
[2010/02/07 9:59] Arria Perreault: ok for me
[2010/02/07 9:59] Solomon Mosely: yes, good idea, stick with the esting time until someone says its a problem
[2010/02/07 9:59] Carolyn Saarinen: Yes, some possibility to make changes.
[2010/02/07 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/02/07 9:59] Arria Perreault: ok
[2010/02/07 10:00] Arria Perreault: I will ask people by email or doodle
[2010/02/07 10:01] Carolyn Saarinen: Proper notice is the key, we don’t want a repeat of lst term’s last meeting.
[2010/02/07 10:01] Jamie Palisades: (no, to solomons q about re-voting on rules; they’re good until amended)
[2010/02/07 10:01] Pip Torok: true
[2010/02/07 10:01] Arria Perreault: does an member of the RA want a vote about date and time of meeting and rules of Procedure?
[2010/02/07 10:01] Patroklus Murakami: no!
[2010/02/07 10:01] Arria Perreault: I did not propose any change to this rules
[2010/02/07 10:01] Pip Torok: no ..
[2010/02/07 10:01] Arria Perreault: I have asked for something that is already written
[2010/02/07 10:02] Jamie Palisades: 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:02] Arria Perreault: ok. We move to next point: Update of the CDS group and the portraits
[2010/02/07 10:02] Carolyn Saarinen: Well “So it is written, so shall it be”.
[2010/02/07 10:02] Object whispers: mmmm…, tea!
[2010/02/07 10:03] Arria Perreault: About the group, I would appreciate that the CDS group is updated with the current members of the RA.
[2010/02/07 10:03] Arria Perreault: I have already organized the update of the portraits. I thank Sudane for the work she has already done
[2010/02/07 10:03] Jamie Palisades: arria, I can fix groups
[2010/02/07 10:03] Pip Torok: Arria, has the DPU delegate given you all the information you need?
[2010/02/07 10:04] Jamie Palisades: officers, actuallu
[2010/02/07 10:04] Pip Torok: *delegation
[2010/02/07 10:04] Carolyn Saarinen: Does ‘portraits’ mean on the message boards?
[2010/02/07 10:04] Arria Perreault: Every RA members has to send a notecard to Sudane to update or add the text
[2010/02/07 10:04] Jamie Palisades: and yes, sudane controls that device, caro
[2010/02/07 10:04] Arria Perreault: yes, Caro
[2010/02/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… I should just say that at least I’ve updated the forum group for the RA. All new members are in it, except Stui
(!) because I couldn’t find his account on the forums, does someone know what his account there is?
[2010/02/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw any SC member can also do that hehe )
[2010/02/07 10:05] Arria Perreault: Good 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:05] Ariel Feden: he’ll be here shortly G
[2010/02/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: send him an inworld IM, he will get back to you
[2010/02/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, Ariel!
[2010/02/07 10:05] Carolyn Saarinen: Ok, well, I think I’m generally recognisable, but my skin, hair etc changes frequently. I’ll update as often as Sudane likes.
[2010/02/07 10:05] Arria Perreault: there is also the CDS in-world group
[2010/02/07 10:05] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:05] Arria Perreault: wait Cindy
[2010/02/07 10:06] Arria Perreault: Crolyn has asked to speak about this point
[2010/02/07 10:06] Arria Perreault: then you have the floor
[2010/02/07 10:06] Cindy Ecksol nods
[2010/02/07 10:06] Arria Perreault: Caro?
[2010/02/07 10:07] Carolyn Saarinen: That was my minor point: I’m generally the same shape, but details vary, I will update as asked, but I can’t sure to be ‘current’
[2010/02/07 10:07] Carolyn Saarinen: *be sure*
[2010/02/07 10:07] Arria Perreault: ok 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:07] Arria Perreault: Cindy
[2010/02/07 10:07] Mikelo Serevi: this is not uncommon in SL, I’m sure it’s fine
[2010/02/07 10:08] Cindy Ecksol: thanks arria. just wanted to point out that members of the RA should update the status board that was installed last term in NFS
[2010/02/07 10:08] Arria Perreault: It’s partly done
[2010/02/07 10:08] Cindy Ecksol: everyone will need a profile notecards. pictures come from your SL profile so that part is easy
[2010/02/07 10:08] Cindy Ecksol: finished, thanks
[2010/02/07 10:08] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:08] Arria Perreault: thank you Cindy
[2010/02/07 10:09] Arria Perreault: Rose?
[2010/02/07 10:09] Carolyn Saarinen notes to update profile pic
[2010/02/07 10:09] Rose Springvale: thanks. As to the CDS group, there are also a number of new citizens, and citizens who are only in the AA group.. so we
need to take some time and go over the roles carefully. Jamie is in the process of doing this. Also
[2010/02/07 10:09] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[2010/02/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: if any RA member doesn’t belong to the AA group, and wished to have notice powers there, let me know
[2010/02/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh nice to know that, Rose 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:10] Arria Perreault: Thank also for this offer 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: yw
[2010/02/07 10:10] Solomon Mosely: powers to notice for any events?
or just events that occur in the cds or AA lands?
[2010/02/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: only cds and AA sol
[2010/02/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: unless something content specific
[2010/02/07 10:11] Arria Perreault: To close this administrative part, I want to thank you all people who have make the beginning of the 12th RA easy
[2010/02/07 10:11] Solomon Mosely: thank you 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria 😀
[2010/02/07 10:12] Arria Perreault: I did not find any items to continue from the prior RA. Keila has started a working group about the portal and other
websites of CDS, but she will report on a further meeting
[2010/02/07 10:13] Arria Perreault: I add that Keila would be happy to get inputs about that question
[2010/02/07 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thanks for volunteering to do that, Keila! 🙂 )
[2010/02/07 10:13] Rose Springvale: she has a brief report i think
[2010/02/07 10:13] Rose Springvale: but may be afk
[2010/02/07 10:13] Rose Springvale: so i have it to paste if you wish
[2010/02/07 10:13] Arria Perreault: ok, Rose
[2010/02/07 10:13] Delia Lake also appreciates Keila volunteering
[2010/02/07 10:13] Rose Springvale: The Portal and Forum WorkGroup meeting was held on Friday. It was a bit of a brainstorming session to see what needs to be done. Two big issues are design (since it’s not easy to find info and navigate ) and content ( missing info, outdated info, additional info we would like
to see). We really need to get input from everyone, and particularly specifics as to what some of the problems are. EX: In the NFS covenant it says. ” As a
member you agree to abide by the rules and laws of the community as displayed on the CDS website, neufreistadt.info, as well as the terms of use of
this parcel of land, also found on that website.” That link takes you to a page that doesn’t exist anymore. I will post a more detailed summary posted to the
forum and we will welcome any and all constructive comments. As soon as I know my RL work schedule , we will schedule another meeting.
[2010/02/07 10:14] Rose Springvale: that’s her’s
[2010/02/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/02/07 10:14] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Rose
[2010/02/07 10:14] Rose Springvale: yw
[2010/02/07 10:14] Arria Perreault: I move to the next point
[2010/02/07 10:15] Arria Perreault: Claude has remembered me to make an inaugural speech
[2010/02/07 10:15] Arria Perreault: I will start with it
[2010/02/07 10:15] Patroklus Murakami: speech! speech!
[2010/02/07 10:15] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/02/07 10:15] Rose Springvale: hm, generally done at the ball 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:15] Arria Perreault: We are opening today the 12th Representative Assembly. It means 12 elections, several participating factions, many
representants who has given their time, many political changes. It mean that the democratical spirit which is the origin of our community is still living.
[2010/02/07 10:16] Arria Perreault: The democracy has two roots: participation of poeple and debate. Everyone can participate by voting, by being candidate,
by proposing their idea, by participating to workgroups or NGO, by observing what happens and by critizing, discussing, commenting.
[2010/02/07 10:16] Arria Perreault: The debate seems to me an important part of our democracy. I am sure that we can find better solutions for our community by debating. I aware that sometimes a democratical process can take time, but I am confident that we get at the end a solution poeple can leave with.
[2010/02/07 10:17] Arria Perreault: live* with
[2010/02/07 10:17] Arria Perreault: Our community has several challenges to face. Some are internal. We have recently merged two communities in one. We have more land, more citizen, more places of interests. This merging is a long process and, in my opinion, it is not yet totally achieved. It will one point the
RA will have to discuss. We have to see this as a chance to evolve as community, as democracy. It questions our definition of citizen. It questions our land
management. I see many signs of good will from both side, so I am confident.
[2010/02/07 10:18] Solomon Mosely: clap clap clap
[2010/02/07 10:18] Jamie Palisades applauds
[2010/02/07 10:18] Pip Torok applauds
[2010/02/07 10:18] Lilith Ivory: applause
[2010/02/07 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bravo, Arria 😀
[2010/02/07 10:18] Arria Perreault: Several critics have been made regarding the way our community communicates. We have currently several tools and each correspond to a need. A process has been started: a workgroup is trying to analyse this question. The RA will have to hear about that too.
[2010/02/07 10:18] Timo Gufler claps
[2010/02/07 10:18] Ulysse Alexandre applauds
[2010/02/07 10:19] Solomon Mosely blushes
[2010/02/07 10:19] Arria Perreault: Some of our challenges come from outside. The CDS is itself in an evolving universe, Second Life. The way Linden Lab is
acting has an effect on us and we have to constantly observe what is going on. Of course, the real world has also effects on our community, especially the
economic situation, as we have to pay our tiers. In the same time, the virtual economy is not that bad. A lot of virtual goods are exchanged in SL or in
other platforms.
[2010/02/07 10:19] Arria Perreault: The composition of the RA is very new comparing to the past term, that was special because of the merging. I am
confident that the 12th RA represents all the citizen of CDS and will work in the interest of the community. I expect balanced debates with a good
argumentation. I expect also that we let citizen participate to the debate by publishing proposals early in the forums to give time for the discussion.
[2010/02/07 10:20] Arria Perreault: Thank you for your attention and let’s start the work of the 12th RA.
[2010/02/07 10:20] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear!
[2010/02/07 10:20] Mikelo Serevi: 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:20] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[2010/02/07 10:20] Pip Torok: hear hear
[2010/02/07 10:20] Sylvia Tinkel: yay! *claps*
[2010/02/07 10:20] Ulysse Alexandre applauds
[2010/02/07 10:20] Imotali Antiesse: nods
[2010/02/07 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
[2010/02/07 10:21] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[2010/02/07 10:21] Lilith Ivory: /applauds
[2010/02/07 10:21] Gelf Yalin: nods
[2010/02/07 10:21] Timo Gufler applauds
[2010/02/07 10:21] Arria Perreault: Thank you. I will move to the next point
[2010/02/07 10:21] Arria Perreault: RA discussion on this term’s priorities
[2010/02/07 10:22] Arria Perreault: Who will the floor?
[2010/02/07 10:22] Soro Dagostino: What is the proposal?
[2010/02/07 10:22] Pip Torok raises
[2010/02/07 10:22] Arria Perreault: Pip
[2010/02/07 10:22] Pip Torok raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:23] Arria Perreault: I ask RA member to express themselves about the priorities they see for our work
[2010/02/07 10:23] Arria Perreault: Pip, you have the floor
[2010/02/07 10:23] Pip Torok: answering a question in the “hustings” on thAT SUBJECT
[2010/02/07 10:24] Pip Torok: i proposed … the defiintion of a citizen … the smooth and friendly intodyction of new citizens AND a new constitution
[2010/02/07 10:24] Pip Torok: speaking for the DPU it remains that way
[2010/02/07 10:24] Pip Torok: finished
[2010/02/07 10:24] Arria Perreault: thank you
[2010/02/07 10:24] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:25] Arria Perreault: Patroklus, you have the floor
[2010/02/07 10:25] Patroklus Murakami: ty
[2010/02/07 10:25] Patroklus Murakami: i think the priority this term is to continue the merging of the two communities of Al Andalus and the former CDS
[2010/02/07 10:25] Patroklus Murakami: it’s begun but by no means ended
[2010/02/07 10:26] Patroklus Murakami: this term, should the parties so wish, the merger could end (the so-called ‘wasp clause’)
[2010/02/07 10:26] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t expect it to
[2010/02/07 10:26] Patroklus Murakami: but I think we need to work on making this one community, while respecting the diversity within it
[2010/02/07 10:26] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:26] Rose Springvale defines: wasp clause is a clause in the merger that allows either side to undo it in July 2010
[2010/02/07 10:27] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[2010/02/07 10:27] Rose Springvale: (lots of new people here)
[2010/02/07 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which is good lol )
[2010/02/07 10:28] Arria Perreault: Are you done, Pat?
[2010/02/07 10:28] Patroklus Murakami: yes arria, ty
[2010/02/07 10:28] Arria Perreault: I guessed you have spoken in the name of CSDF
[2010/02/07 10:29] Arria Perreault: Does anyone from SEED want to say something?
[2010/02/07 10:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Only that the Wasp Clause…
[2010/02/07 10:30] Carolyn Saarinen: Is not so readily dismissed by some al-andalus citizens.
[2010/02/07 10:30] Carolyn Saarinen: SEED* was formed – not as an AA FAction…
[2010/02/07 10:30] Carolyn Saarinen: but as a progressive one…
[2010/02/07 10:31] Arria Perreault: Caro, I have asked you about the general priorities of the term 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:31] Carolyn Saarinen: failure of progress on ther issues that concern our… less conventiional citizens, will lead to discontent.
[2010/02/07 10:32] Ariel Feden winks at stui
[2010/02/07 10:32] Arria Perreault: Any other remark about the priorities for the term?
[2010/02/07 10:32] Carolyn Saarinen: very well, proper communications – no repeat of an RA meeting called without notice and with members proposing that
those who could not attend be denied a vote…
[2010/02/07 10:33] Lilith Ivory: and to enable people to become RA candidates without being in a faction 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:33] Carolyn Saarinen: The full aboliution of the faction system..
[2010/02/07 10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m here !
[2010/02/07 10:33] Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
[2010/02/07 10:33] Pip Torok: Alrady settled Caro
[2010/02/07 10:33] Arria Perreault: I think you can pronounce you oath
[2010/02/07 10:33] Arria Perreault: and then join us
[2010/02/07 10:34] Arria Perreault: Delia will ask you
[2010/02/07 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, Stui 😀
[2010/02/07 10:34] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[2010/02/07 10:34] Carolyn Saarinen: Until, it’s over turned because SEED* is utterly out-voted in this assembly Pip!
[2010/02/07 10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I, StuiChicanne Darkstone, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic
Simulators.
[2010/02/07 10:34] Delia Lake: thank you. Stui
[2010/02/07 10:34] Mikelo Serevi: Welcome, stui
[2010/02/07 10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Nothing is settled in CDS Pippet
[2010/02/07 10:35] Solomon Mosely raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:35] Arria Perreault: Welcome by us, Stui 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because all things can change in accordance with the needs of citizens 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:35] Delia Lake: you may now join the rest of this term’s RA
[2010/02/07 10:35] Jamie Palisades smiles. Caro, minority factions here have OFTEN influenced things as much or more than majorities. Forgive me for
speaking up, but I;d not worry about that. As Arria said, there’s a lot of good will to work together here, and it;s a new term.
[2010/02/07 10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Delia do I have to ?
[2010/02/07 10:35] Solomon Mosely looks for a magic punctuation totouch…
[2010/02/07 10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I like sitting in strange places 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the rest of the RA like to sit on the pews
[2010/02/07 10:36] Solomon Mosely: i think that may be all a place needs stui…. 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:36] Mikelo Serevi: your sconce is open, stui
[2010/02/07 10:36] Arria Perreault: Stui, can you also consent to be recorded
[2010/02/07 10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I may sit on Pippets knee tho
[2010/02/07 10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could
[2010/02/07 10:37] Arria Perreault: This point was an open discussion
[2010/02/07 10:37] Solomon Mosely raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:37] Arria Perreault: Solomon?
[2010/02/07 10:37] Sylvia Tinkel: this is so … dramatic
[2010/02/07 10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arria has a good view 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:38] Carolyn Saarinen: My money was o nthe big amphora 😉
[2010/02/07 10:38] Solomon Mosely: i’ve been in and out for a while, but has there been any talk of the cds producing anything?
[2010/02/07 10:38] Solomon Mosely: like , of value to Sl?
[2010/02/07 10:38] Arria Perreault: I am mainly looking the Chat local
[2010/02/07 10:38] Jeroma Wycliffe: Stui: cross your legs 😛
[2010/02/07 10:38] Solomon Mosely: be it events, education
[2010/02/07 10:38] Solomon Mosely: widgets,
[2010/02/07 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh nice point, Solomon!!! very good 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I get told off for sitting on the recorder *LOL*
[2010/02/07 10:39] Solomon Mosely: but somthing to bring to the virtual table?
[2010/02/07 10:39] Patroklus Murakami has a suggestion in answer to solomon….
[2010/02/07 10:39] Rose Springvale looks at the clock .. and the agenda…
[2010/02/07 10:39] Solomon Mosely: thank you gwen
[2010/02/07 10:39] Mikelo Serevi: You mean besides democracy?
[2010/02/07 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if Solomon is suggesting that we make that a priority for this term.
[2010/02/07 10:39] Solomon Mosely: yes
[2010/02/07 10:39] Solomon Mosely: very much besides something that most people already have in their lives
[2010/02/07 10:39] Arria Perreault: Pat?
[2010/02/07 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would definitely welcome that idea, Solomon! Totally so!!!
[2010/02/07 10:40] Solomon Mosely: i am gwen
[2010/02/07 10:40] Patroklus Murakami: good idea solomon. i think there’s lots we could do. i’ll keep my powder dry for now given the time….
[2010/02/07 10:40] Arria Perreault: yes, we cannot list everything now
[2010/02/07 10:40] Solomon Mosely: of course, i just hate the idea of us playing house here
[2010/02/07 10:40] Moon Adamant waves hello quietly to all
[2010/02/07 10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: MOON !!!!!
[2010/02/07 10:40] Solomon Mosely: and i know i have failed in my own duties at times, but i’d like to do better
[2010/02/07 10:41] Arria Perreault: this is the work of the factions and of the citizen to make proposals
[2010/02/07 10:41] Arria Perreault: and maybe we can discuss some of these points during the Town Halls
[2010/02/07 10:41] Arria Perreault: Any other remark on that point?
[2010/02/07 10:42] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:42] Arria Perreault: Rose?
[2010/02/07 10:42] Solomon Mosely: i would like to say that i will making that point agian and offering a couple ideas at the next town hall metting
[2010/02/07 10:42] Solomon Mosely: sorry rose
[2010/02/07 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good, good, Solomon :)))
[2010/02/07 10:42] Rose Springvale: thanks. In rl government we always have the issue of “unfunded mandates”… proposals passed without proper funding
[2010/02/07 10:42] Arria Perreault: great
[2010/02/07 10:42] Solomon Mosely: ha
[2010/02/07 10:42] Rose Springvale: in sl, that takes the form of proposals without proper volunteer support
[2010/02/07 10:43] Rose Springvale: i’d just ask the ra to make sure you spread the wealth 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear!
[2010/02/07 10:43] Solomon Mosely: point taken….
[2010/02/07 10:43] Jamie Palisades: Hear hear 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:43] Arria Perreault: that’s I think that it is a work of the factions and of the citizen and also the different NGO we have to make these proposal
[2010/02/07 10:44] Delia Lake agrees with Rose’s points
[2010/02/07 10:45] Sonja Strom agrees too
[2010/02/07 10:45] Arria Perreault: Anyone else? (the term is starting. Use also Town Halls and forums)
[2010/02/07 10:45] Arria Perreault: May I move to the next point?
[2010/02/07 10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I wonder if we can make some sort of incentive for volunteering 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:45] Solomon Mosely: well, weekly gathers to aye and nay are arranged and executed, perhaps some other sounds of progress could be mustered, form myself included
[2010/02/07 10:46] Mikelo Serevi: I trust the volunteers would have their own motivation
[2010/02/07 10:47] Arria Perreault: Any citizen has the right to propose something. He/she can find a member of the RA who can introduce his/her proposal
[2010/02/07 10:47] Solomon Mosely: eh…
[2010/02/07 10:47] Arria Perreault: I will move to the next point 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that the issue is that the same people do the same amount of work – i.e lots and everyone reaps the benefit…
[2010/02/07 10:47] Arria Perreault: RA Archivist
[2010/02/07 10:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with incentive we could share the burdens 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:48] Arria Perreault: Since two terms, we don’t have any RA archivist
[2010/02/07 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
[2010/02/07 10:48] Solomon Mosely: what would they do?
[2010/02/07 10:48] Arria Perreault: Our law corpus is not updated in the forum
[2010/02/07 10:49] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, that’s a problem
[2010/02/07 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The RA Archivist is responsible for maintaining the public records of the RA including the posting of:

meeting transcripts
summaries of RA action and votes
texts of approved bills.

Transcripts and summaries should be posted within 72 hours of RA meetings.
Full texts of approved bills should be posted within five days.

Postings may be to the forums and/or wiki.”
[2010/02/07 10:49] Arria Perreault: The RA Archivist must update the law corpus with the RA decisions
[2010/02/07 10:49] Arria Perreault: Ty Gwyn 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2010/02/07 10:50] Arria Perreault: I have published an announcement in the forum to ask for volunteer
[2010/02/07 10:50] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2682
[2010/02/07 10:50] Arria Perreault: Still possible to answer 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:50] Mikelo Serevi: Maybe no one was able to find it 😀
[2010/02/07 10:50] Cindy Ecksol smiles
[2010/02/07 10:50] Rose Springvale: /smiles and drags mikelo to keila’s committee
[2010/02/07 10:50] Keila Forager: or maybe very few people read the forum
[2010/02/07 10:51] Arria Perreault: If someone is ready to do this work, he/she can tell now or answer in the forum
[2010/02/07 10:51] Solomon Mosely: i didnt look. i figured if there was an assigned post in exsistence, it would have been addresed by the RA to fill it
[2010/02/07 10:51] Mikelo Serevi: I might volunteer
[2010/02/07 10:52] Patroklus Murakami: happy to help whoever is appointed. i’ve done similar functions in the past
[2010/02/07 10:52] Mikelo Serevi: Unless someone else wants to do it
[2010/02/07 10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t do that… I am ideologically opposed to the forums
[2010/02/07 10:52] Jamie Palisades: Bravo. Arria, let me state my offer to help whoever takes the role, with digging through transcripts for the text of
laws, if they like.
[2010/02/07 10:52] Arria Perreault: The law code is in the portal, Stui
[2010/02/07 10:52] Rose Springvale: Mikelo would be great and i think he volunteered 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so is everything it seems
[2010/02/07 10:52] Rose Springvale: Does the archivist also post transcripts?
[2010/02/07 10:52] Arria Perreault: Mikel is volunteer
[2010/02/07 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s a paid job, btw; the RA Archivist is a Civil Servant under the code of laws)
[2010/02/07 10:53] Mikelo Serevi: bonus
[2010/02/07 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose — yes
[2010/02/07 10:53] Arria Perreault: It would be fine too
[2010/02/07 10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: posting transcripts was mentioned I believe
[2010/02/07 10:53] Delia Lake: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[2010/02/07 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it’s part of the role
[2010/02/07 10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so that’s on the forums isn’t it ?
[2010/02/07 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: no, stui….
[2010/02/07 10:53] Patroklus Murakami: portal and forums are separate
[2010/02/07 10:53] Mikelo Serevi: Starting with this meeting, I imagine
[2010/02/07 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: forums are on a different server
[2010/02/07 10:54] Arria Perreault: Can we consider that Mikelo is our new RA Archivist or do we have to elect him?
[2010/02/07 10:54] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2010/02/07 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh — and eventually elsewhere. We used to have the transcripts on a Wiki; we just pushed them to the forum when the Wiki became, uh, unmanageable
[2010/02/07 10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa don’t get technical 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:54] Jamie Palisades smiles. Quick, approve him before he gets away!
[2010/02/07 10:54] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[2010/02/07 10:54] Patroklus Murakami: if there are no other volunteers, i propose that the RA approves Mikelo’s appontment as RA ARchivist
[2010/02/07 10:55] Solomon Mosely: congrats mik
[2010/02/07 10:55] Rose Springvale: yay Mikelo!
[2010/02/07 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that before Mikelo has second thoughts about it!
[2010/02/07 10:55] Arria Perreault: I propose we applause him
[2010/02/07 10:55] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[2010/02/07 10:56] Lilith Ivory: applause 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:56] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:56] Arria Perreault: /applause
[2010/02/07 10:56] Ulysse Alexandre applauds
[2010/02/07 10:56] Mikelo Serevi: ty
[2010/02/07 10:56] Jamie Palisades: 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:56] Timo Gufler applauds
[2010/02/07 10:56] Patroklus Murakami acclaims mikelo 🙂
[2010/02/07 10:56] Imotali Antiesse: clap clap
[2010/02/07 10:56] Arria Perreault: Thank you, very much
[2010/02/07 10:56] Gelf Yalin: applause
[2010/02/07 10:56] Cindy Ecksol raises hand again
[2010/02/07 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks so much, Mikelo! You have almost a year of backlogs already….
[2010/02/07 10:57] Arria Perreault: I suggest that former RA Archivists or other people well involved in law work inform him
[2010/02/07 10:57] Mikelo Serevi: lucky me
[2010/02/07 10:57] Arria Perreault: I will make sure that he gets an access to the portal
[2010/02/07 10:57] Arria Perreault: The next point now
[2010/02/07 10:57] Arria Perreault: LRA pro tempore
[2010/02/07 10:58] Arria Perreault: We need to elect someone to replace the LRA in case she cannot come
[2010/02/07 10:58] Pip Torok: I propose Cindy Ecksol if she’s willing
[2010/02/07 10:59] Rose Springvale: shes’ not in RA lol
[2010/02/07 10:59] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/02/07 10:59] Cindy Ecksol: nice thought Pip!
[2010/02/07 10:59] Pip Torok: drat!
[2010/02/07 10:59] Arria Perreault: We need a RA member
[2010/02/07 10:59] Patroklus Murakami: cindy did an excellent job last term
[2010/02/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/02/07 10:59] Cindy Ecksol: I get to watch this term…..
[2010/02/07 10:59] Patroklus Murakami: but i think that it needs to be an RA member…
[2010/02/07 10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we get the little hammer
[2010/02/07 10:59] Patroklus Murakami: how about you, pip?
[2010/02/07 10:59] Patroklus Murakami: can we persuade you?
[2010/02/07 10:59] Delia Lake: “The Representative Assembly may elect one of its members to serve as Leader pro tempore who may act as Leader in the event of the absence of the Leader or if the position of Leader is vacant.”
[2010/02/07 10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I might pinch the hammer when Arria’s away
[2010/02/07 11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and run around banging it randomly
[2010/02/07 11:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (80, 80, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[2010/02/07 11:00] Pip Torok: am not up to it physically (diabetes)
[2010/02/07 11:00] Mikelo Serevi doesn’t doubt it, stui
[2010/02/07 11:00] Patroklus Murakami: oh, i’m sorry to hear that pip
[2010/02/07 11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: “order! ORDER !”
[2010/02/07 11:00] Jamie Palisades: Hm. Stui with a hammer. Hm.
[2010/02/07 11:00] Arria Perreault: yes, me too
[2010/02/07 11:00] Cindy Ecksol thinks stui would be great
[2010/02/07 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2010/02/07 11:00] Mikelo Serevi erases proposal for pip
[2010/02/07 11:01] Solomon Mosely is disappointed, pip would be perfect
[2010/02/07 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any volunteers? 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:02] Rose Springvale: i think stui did
[2010/02/07 11:02] Cindy Ecksol wonders why Gwyndidn’t volunteer…..
[2010/02/07 11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think Caro should
[2010/02/07 11:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:03] Carolyn Saarinen: I thought you had Stui?
[2010/02/07 11:03] Delia Lake thinks Stui does a good job of running his talking hours in AA
[2010/02/07 11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I could
[2010/02/07 11:03] Imotali Antiesse: yes for stui
[2010/02/07 11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could keep my beady eyes open for people whispering
[2010/02/07 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All righty! Motion to approve Stui as pro tem LRA?
[2010/02/07 11:04] Arria Perreault: Any second?
[2010/02/07 11:04] Carolyn Saarinen: second
[2010/02/07 11:04] Arria Perreault: ty you
[2010/02/07 11:05] Arria Perreault: RA members who want to have Stui as LRA pro tempore, please say aye
[2010/02/07 11:05] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/02/07 11:05] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[2010/02/07 11:05] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[2010/02/07 11:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t all jump at once 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:05] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2010/02/07 11:05] Timo Gufler: aye…
[2010/02/07 11:05] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/02/07 11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: any more for any more ?
[2010/02/07 11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *looks for nays*
[2010/02/07 11:06] Gelf Yalin: aye
[2010/02/07 11:06] Arria Perreault: nay?
[2010/02/07 11:06] Carolyn Saarinen: no nays, it seems
[2010/02/07 11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:06] Rose Springvale: yay Stui!
[2010/02/07 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ,)
[2010/02/07 11:06] Jamie Palisades smiles and claps
[2010/02/07 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds
[2010/02/07 11:07] Mikelo Serevi: good, we needed one ‘nay’ just to make things interesting
[2010/02/07 11:07] Pip Torok: yes … tea, stu!
[2010/02/07 11:07] Arria Perreault: I abstains, because I am concerned
[2010/02/07 11:07] Keila Forager: Yay Stui 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:07] Lilith Ivory: APPLAUSE!
[2010/02/07 11:07] Pip Torok: *yea
[2010/02/07 11:07] Arria Perreault: Congratulation, Stui
[2010/02/07 11:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arria there is no need to be concerned
[2010/02/07 11:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if all else fails I’ll tell jokes for an hour
[2010/02/07 11:07] Patroklus Murakami: grtz 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:07] Arria Perreault: I’ll warn you when I need you replace me
[2010/02/07 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Stui!
[2010/02/07 11:08] Rose Springvale: you will do a fine job stui, as always
[2010/02/07 11:08] Arria Perreault: Next point
[2010/02/07 11:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will need a hammer
[2010/02/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The New Guild shall be informed.
[2010/02/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2010/02/07 11:08] Arria Perreault: We have to organize the election of the next Chancellor
[2010/02/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
[2010/02/07 11:09] Rose Springvale looks for scimitar and considers the benefits of merging…
[2010/02/07 11:09] Arria Perreault: This election will happen in our next meeting
[2010/02/07 11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well not alistair darling
[2010/02/07 11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he’s hopeless
[2010/02/07 11:09] Arria Perreault: I have tried to clarify who should make the announcement in the forums, me or SC
[2010/02/07 11:10] Delia Lake: if i may speak to this, Arria
[2010/02/07 11:10] Arria Perreault: please, Delia
[2010/02/07 11:10] Arria Perreault: Jamie has also asked to speak (I did not forget)
[2010/02/07 11:11] Delia Lake: firstly Article II of the Constitution addresses the election of Chancellor
[2010/02/07 11:11] Delia Lake: Section 5 – Chancellor Selection Process

The Chancellor of the CDS shall be selected by the Representative Assembly from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the RA.

The application period shall begin when the membership of a new RA is named and end the first day of the new RA term. This provision shall come into force

with the next RA election following passage and ratification of this amendment. (ed. note: the Seventh RA)

The chancellor will serve a term ending with the election of the next chancellor by the incoming RA.

The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council. The Chancellor may hold a position in the

Artisanal Collective but may not vote therein.
[2010/02/07 11:11] Cindy Ecksol thinks “Oops!”
[2010/02/07 11:11] Keila Forager: Double oops..
[2010/02/07 11:11] Delia Lake: Secondly, I did send an email to my fellow SC members regarding this but have yet to have heard anything back
[2010/02/07 11:12] Ariel Feden: (leafs through constitutional index under C)
[2010/02/07 11:12] Mikelo Serevi: Thank you delia
[2010/02/07 11:12] Delia Lake: I am merely 1 of 5 and am not the Dean of the SC
[2010/02/07 11:12] Rose Springvale: danton is here 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:12] Delia Lake: yes
[2010/02/07 11:12] Arria Perreault: Thank you for your efforts, Delia
[2010/02/07 11:13] Arria Perreault: Jamie, you wanted to speak too
[2010/02/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades: thank you
[2010/02/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades: Arria, three transition matters
[2010/02/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades: the legal one first
[2010/02/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades: as I posted in the Forums, our constitution unfortunately closes eligibility for chancellor today, with the start of
term. I was informally told that the SC meant to announce the position last week, but forget. May I suggest that you have the RA formally act to reopen it
for a stated period of time, and then we post to the Forums about it?
[2010/02/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades: i thin it will be betetr process if you extend the time officially by a vote here.
[2010/02/07 11:14] Jamie Palisades: i’ll hold the other two, in case that one generates comment
[2010/02/07 11:14] Arria Perreault: ok
[2010/02/07 11:14] Patroklus Murakami nods in agreement with jamie
[2010/02/07 11:14] Pip Torok nods too
[2010/02/07 11:14] Gelf Yalin: nods
[2010/02/07 11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *shakes his head*
[2010/02/07 11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I like to do my own thing 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:15] Mikelo Serevi: I propose we vote to extend the period by as much as we extended the voting period.
[2010/02/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Mikelo.
[2010/02/07 11:15] Arria Perreault: ty
[2010/02/07 11:15] Pip Torok: if jamies finished arria can we formally propose it?
[2010/02/07 11:15] Mikelo Serevi: And thx jamie, good idea
[2010/02/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Jamie as well
[2010/02/07 11:15] Jamie Palisades: can we have the date stated here? I thikn Mikelo just made a motion, but that’s the “which” of February?
[2010/02/07 11:15] Pip Torok: (ah sorry)
[2010/02/07 11:16] Arria Perreault: he has two other points, he told
[2010/02/07 11:16] Jamie Palisades: shall i go now, or wait for the motion, arria?
[2010/02/07 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, good point, Jamie
[2010/02/07 11:16] Arria Perreault: Jamie, can we vote on this now or the two other points are related?
[2010/02/07 11:16] Jamie Palisades: please go ahead and vot,e, and name a date
[2010/02/07 11:16] Arria Perreault: we move to move
[2010/02/07 11:16] Pip Torok: seconded
[2010/02/07 11:16] Arria Perreault: sorry
[2010/02/07 11:16] Patroklus Murakami: cut off date should be our next formal meeting in two week’s time. yes?
[2010/02/07 11:17] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, how about the 21st, our next meeting?
[2010/02/07 11:17] Arria Perreault: until when?
[2010/02/07 11:17] Patroklus Murakami: yes!
[2010/02/07 11:17] Rose Springvale: for the app period??
[2010/02/07 11:17] Pip Torok agrees
[2010/02/07 11:17] Arria Perreault: a day before the meeting
[2010/02/07 11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: WEll it can’t be this sunday
[2010/02/07 11:17] Rose Springvale: the election was only extended one week
[2010/02/07 11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s Valentines day
[2010/02/07 11:17] Arria Perreault: so we have the list of candidates
[2010/02/07 11:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why would it take 2 weeks to get people to say “I want to be chancellor”?
[2010/02/07 11:18] Jamie Palisades smiles. I heard three people say next meeting 21 feb. Is that the motion?
[2010/02/07 11:18] Arria Perreault: the motion is to extend the limit
[2010/02/07 11:18] Patroklus Murakami: arria has a point about the cut off date tho
[2010/02/07 11:18] Pip Torok: its more convoluted than that usually stui
[2010/02/07 11:18] Mikelo Serevi: Well they might be nervous, stui
[2010/02/07 11:18] Arria Perreault: I just want to know unteil when
[2010/02/07 11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: convoluted – it’s a decision like any other
[2010/02/07 11:19] Patroklus Murakami: if it’s the day before, we know the candidates when we come to the meeting
[2010/02/07 11:19] Patroklus Murakami: if not. who knows? 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:19] Rose Springvale: sighs, always the last minute
[2010/02/07 11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am the most indecisive person in RA as we all know
[2010/02/07 11:19] Arria Perreault: If we elect the Chancelor the 21, we have to set the limit few days before
[2010/02/07 11:19] Pip Torok agrees on the day before
[2010/02/07 11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it takes me 9 hrs to decide upon what ice cream I want
[2010/02/07 11:19] Mikelo Serevi: I amend my motion to extend to the 20th
[2010/02/07 11:19] Patroklus Murakami: i propose sat 20 feb at 9am SLT as the cutoff
[2010/02/07 11:19] Arria Perreault: ty
[2010/02/07 11:19] Jamie Palisades: 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:19] Mikelo Serevi: the day before
[2010/02/07 11:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone want to consult the I ching ?
[2010/02/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in seconding Mikelo’s amended suggestion 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:20] Mikelo Serevi: I second pat’s for good measure
[2010/02/07 11:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we should check the day is auspicious
[2010/02/07 11:20] Arria Perreault: First we vote on the amendment
[2010/02/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* but gives some chicken for Stui to read its entrails — this is a *Roman* sim after all!
[2010/02/07 11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ewwww
[2010/02/07 11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I got excited when I heard chicken
[2010/02/07 11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I thought it was dinnertime
[2010/02/07 11:21] Mikelo Serevi: wb timo
[2010/02/07 11:22] Arria Perreault: who agrees on sat 20 feb at 9am SLT as limit for candidacy for Chancellor? Please say aye or nay
[2010/02/07 11:22] Timo Gufler: thanks, sorry, I crashed
[2010/02/07 11:22] Mikelo Serevi: aye!
[2010/02/07 11:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] Timo Gufler: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] Gelf Yalin: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2010/02/07 11:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye spy
[2010/02/07 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wb Timo!)
[2010/02/07 11:23] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[2010/02/07 11:23] Arria Perreault: aye
[2010/02/07 11:23] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2010/02/07 11:23] Arria Perreault: now we can vote on the amended motion:
[2010/02/07 11:24] Arria Perreault: who agree that we extend the period of election for the Chancellor until the next RA meeting, 21th feb? please say aye or nay
[2010/02/07 11:24] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Gelf Yalin: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Timo Gufler: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[2010/02/07 11:25] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[2010/02/07 11:26] Danton Sideways: That’s a good solution 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: present 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:26] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2010/02/07 11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[2010/02/07 11:26] Arria Perreault: aye
[2010/02/07 11:26] Arria Perreault: I will publish an announcement after this meeting in the forum
[2010/02/07 11:26] Jamie Palisades: 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:26] Jamie Palisades: may I?
[2010/02/07 11:27] Arria Perreault: you two other points, Jamie (then Cindy)
[2010/02/07 11:27] Jamie Palisades: Ok, thanks, the two others are faster. #2 I have updated your roles. See what title you have as an RA member (“CDS

Gov’t”, same as SC) when you are using the C.D.S. group, and let Sudane or me know if there are any problems. Also, Arria is in the “presiding officers”

group, to which I also will add Stui, which gives you some additional control, in some locations — ejections and all that. Finally ..
[2010/02/07 11:27] Jamie Palisades: let me publicly, especially, thank Delia Lake for being a very helpful and communicative SC repreentative throughout

this term transition process. I’d invite the RA to join me in that thanks too .. and at the proper time, to adopt a resolution thanking the departing RA

members (Wasp, Soro, Sonja, Joaquin, Cindy, Michal etc.) for their service.
[2010/02/07 11:27] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks Arria
[2010/02/07 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear!
[2010/02/07 11:27] Patroklus Murakami: here, here 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:28] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear. even 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:28] Pip Torok: hear hear!!!!
[2010/02/07 11:28] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Jamie
[2010/02/07 11:28] Arria Perreault: I need a motion for that
[2010/02/07 11:28] Carolyn Saarinen salutes
[2010/02/07 11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *WOO HOO FOR DELIA !!*
[2010/02/07 11:28] Pip Torok: so move
[2010/02/07 11:28] Patroklus Murakami: second
[2010/02/07 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
[2010/02/07 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, lol
[2010/02/07 11:29] Mikelo Serevi: to #1, thx, to #2, hear hear!
[2010/02/07 11:29] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/02/07 11:29] Arria Perreault: Ty you
[2010/02/07 11:29] Delia Lake: ty 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:29] Gelf Yalin: hear hear
[2010/02/07 11:29] Danton Sideways: woot
[2010/02/07 11:29] Lilith Ivory applauds
[2010/02/07 11:30] Arria Perreault: We vot now on a resolution to thank the departing RA members. By saying aye, you thank them for their work. Please vote:
[2010/02/07 11:30] Cindy Ecksol waits patiently for hubub to subside
[2010/02/07 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Timo Gufler: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Gelf Yalin: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/02/07 11:30] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[2010/02/07 11:31] Ariel Feden: Jamie’s sat down!!
[2010/02/07 11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[2010/02/07 11:31] Arria Perreault: Caro?
[2010/02/07 11:32] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[2010/02/07 11:32] Sonja Strom bows
[2010/02/07 11:32] Arria Perreault: aye
[2010/02/07 11:32] Arria Perreault: Motion carries
[2010/02/07 11:32] Arria Perreault: Thank you 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:33] Arria Perreault: we can appluase them 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:33] Lilith Ivory smiles
[2010/02/07 11:33] Mikelo Serevi: ♪♫♥ Applauds!!! ♥♫♪
[2010/02/07 11:33] Lilith Ivory: applause
[2010/02/07 11:33] Danton Sideways: yay
[2010/02/07 11:33] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[2010/02/07 11:33] Jamie Palisades claps
[2010/02/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bravo, bravo 🙂
[2010/02/07 11:33] Imotali Antiesse: clappps
[2010/02/07 11:33] Cindy Ecksol bows and smiles thank you
[2010/02/07 11:33] Pip Torok: bravo
[2010/02/07 11:33] Rose Springvale: bravo!!
[2010/02/07 11:33] Arria Perreault: /applauds
[2010/02/07 11:33] Keila Forager: ♪♪♪♪>~~~APPLAUSE~~~<

Permalink.

RA Meeting 21 February 2010

Agenda

I. ADMIN
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. RA Transcripts

II. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING(-)
–

III. NEW ITEMS
a. Resolution to thank the Exectutive Team of the former Term
b. Election of the Chancellor
c. Report of the Portal/Forum Workgroup
d. Report of the Town Hall Meeting

IV. Concerns of RA Members

V. Concerns of Citizens

VI. Adjournment
Transcription

[8:54] Carolyn Saarinen: It could mean ‘caution rezzing in prgress’ but I believe it means ‘peace be upon you’ Timo 😉
[8:54] Arria Perreault: Hi Mikelo
[8:54] Mikelo Serevi: morning
[8:54] Timo Gufler: Ok, good… 🙂 It could have mean’t something more hostile… lol
[8:55] Carolyn Saarinen: Some of us Andalusians flatter ourselves with a bit of Arabic 😉
[8:56] Arria Perreault: Hi Carolyn
[8:56] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I’ve observed that carolyn
[8:56] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, arria, can I be added to the list of people who get a transcript in email?
[8:56] Arria Perreault: Hi Junius
[8:57] Junius Inaka: hello
[8:57] Arria Perreault: Yes, Mikelo. I had this in mind
[8:57] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve been filtering my logs, but it takes a while
[8:58] Arria Perreault: I can’t edit the recorder
[8:58] Mikelo Serevi: Well, for next time maybe
[8:58] Arria Perreault: Hi all 🙂 welcome to the meeting
[8:59] Mikelo Serevi: Hi 🙂
[8:59] Rose Springvale: no notice was sent to Al Andalus group,
[8:59] Rose Springvale: i think you have the power to do that
[8:59] Rose Springvale: hi Fern
[9:00] Jeroma Wycliffe: Fern 🙂
[9:01] Mikelo Serevi: Which groups need a general notice? Just AA and CDS?
[9:01] Rose Springvale: arria sent one to CDS
[9:02] Carolyn Saarinen: ‘no notice to al-Andalus’ why does this sound familiar?
[9:02] Arria Perreault: Does anybody know how I can edit the recorder?
[9:02] Arria Perreault: I will send to AA too
[9:02] Mikelo Serevi: I can send one, if I have access. I was added to AA this week
[9:02] Carolyn Saarinen: shall we have a secret meeting with no 7 day votes?
[9:03] Carolyn Saarinen: It was a popular notion a little while ago
[9:03] Mikelo Serevi: What was carolyn, secret meetings?
[9:03] Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone 🙂
[9:03] Mikelo Serevi: Hi pat
[9:03] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Pat
[9:03] Pip Torok: hi pat
[9:04] Carolyn Saarinen: Oh yes Mikelo, RA meetings with no notice. Just before the election.
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: Ours are quite regular now, it seems. I’m quite likely to forget about a secret meeting
[9:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who’s knees can I sit on this week ?
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
[9:06] Mikelo Serevi: Hi muhammed, stui
[9:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi Mikelo
[9:06] Pip Torok: mine are bomy this week Stu
[9:06] Pip Torok: *bony
[9:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s ok Pip
[9:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: soaper is planned in to sit on your knee
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Shanghai Lil !
[9:07] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not really into pirates, myself
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui 🙂
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m not just any Pirate
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m jolly
[9:08] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, I’m sure
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo is doing Pirate outreach
[9:08] Mikelo Serevi: yar
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: wow interesting effect
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m being posessed by Mikelo
[9:09] Mikelo Serevi: Dont stress too much about the transcript, arria
[9:10] Arria Perreault: Does anyone hear from Gwyn?
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: every second week
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on a sunday
[9:11] Arria Perreault: we can start. I hope she will join us
[9:11] Arria Perreault: I open the meeting
[9:12] Arria Perreault: please clic on the recorder to consent to be recorded
[9:13] Carolyn Saarinen: Since Gwyn was so keen to havwe me denied a 7 day vote on my own proposal, I don’t see why we can’t follow hher example and have a meeting without her!
[9:13] Carolyn Saarinen: Or is the fix not solidly in?
[9:13] Arria Perreault: We have started without her
[9:13] Arria Perreault: Agenda now
[9:14] Arria Perreault: the agenda is available in the amphora
[9:14] Arria Perreault: any change to the agenda?
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: none from me 🙂
[9:15] Fern Leissa: Yes sorry.
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d like to say that we miss Gwenyth
[9:15] Fern Leissa: One thing I wanted to bring up was the issue of maintaining covenants
[9:16] Fern Leissa: I’m concerned that we not destroy what has already been build so capabably by many before us
[9:16] Arria Perreault: Fern, I will ask for concerns from citizen. We will take this under this point.
[9:16] Fern Leissa: In our attempt to recruit new people and new activities
[9:16] Fern Leissa: I’d also like to express a wish to discuss sim appropriate activities within sims
[9:17] Fern Leissa: Sorry
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d like to raise a discussion point
[9:18] Arria Perreault: Thank you Fern. I will gib^ve you the word under the point Citizen concerns
[9:18] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: related to the order of each RA meeting
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I think Citizens concerns have probably always come at the wrong end of the meeting
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in that we invite concerns at the end
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but they may relate to the subjects we discuss
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: plus
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are here to serve the community
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the concerns get the least discussion time 🙂
[9:19] Mikelo Serevi: I think it makes sense to do it in this order
[9:19] Keila Forager: Here here Stui :))
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: It allows us to take care of business, and then hear concerns
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it doesn’t quite prioritise the community needs
[9:20] Arria Perreault: Stui, do you propose to add a new point in the agenda: “discussion about the order of the agenda”?
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the community is bigger than the sum of the RA members
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: We also have an unstructured meeting every other week now
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I do 🙂
[9:20] Arria Perreault: any second for this proposal?
[9:20] Carolyn Saarinen: Did you know that stui ? 😉
[9:21] Pip Torok: second
[9:21] Arria Perreault: ty Pip
[9:21] Arria Perreault: RA members who agree to to add a new point in the agenda: “discussion about the order of the agenda” say aye
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: can we discuss this under IV – concerns of RA members?
[9:21] Pip Torok: aye
[9:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Aye
[9:22] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[9:22] Timo Gufler: aye
[9:22] Gelf Yalin: aye
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye to discussion under item IV… but not before!
[9:22] Carolyn Saarinen: you don’t get to re-word the motion, just aye or nay
[9:23] Patroklus Murakami: nay then
[9:24] Arria Perreault: I say nay
[9:25] Arria Perreault: Imotali?
[9:25] Imotali Antiesse: ah sorry was distracted…aye
[9:26] Pip Torok: ah …
[9:26] Arria Perreault: Carolyn?
[9:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Caro aye’d
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: yup
[9:27] Arria Perreault: 7 aye 3 nay . motion carries
[9:27] Carolyn Saarinen: yes i did
[9:27] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:27] Arria Perreault: Can we go with this updated agenda?
[9:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: possibly
[9:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this time
[9:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who knows about next time 🙂
[9:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: afk
[9:29] Arria Perreault: we go further
[9:29] Mikelo Serevi: When we say updated, we mean the discussion point is added for this time, right?
[9:29] Arria Perreault: Next point: Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Every item
[9:29] Arria Perreault: we have a point from Fern under Citizen Concerns
[9:29] Arria Perreault: Soro?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: You asked for speakers.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: I plan to speak on every matter
[9:30] Arria Perreault: yes,. Do you have a special point?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Madame?
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: he just wants to speak on every point
[9:31] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:31] Arria Perreault: any other person?
[9:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I tend to interject when I feel the need
[9:31] Arria Perreault: if it not the case, next point
[9:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: rather than from the outset
[9:31] Arria Perreault: Stui, you are rA member
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: RA can do that, stui
[9:32] Arria Perreault: transcripts of the meeting
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s convenient for me then isn’t it ?
[9:32] Arria Perreault: there was a post in the forum about that question
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: I didn’t see it
[9:32] Arria Perreault: first, I would like Mikelo get the transcript per mail, but I can’t edit the recorder
[9:33] Arria Perreault: I will appreciate if someone can help me
[9:33] Mikelo Serevi: cindy is the owner, she can do it
[9:33] Arria Perreault: I will ask her then
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: I can wait since we’re in the meeting now
[9:34] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arias
[9:34] Arria Perreault: is there stil any question about that: color script for example?
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: Did the forum posting have a concern?
[9:34] Arias Ahren: Hi everybody.
[9:34] Arias Ahren: Sorry I am late.
[9:34] Arria Perreault: I just want to know if everything is ok now
[9:34] Arias Ahren: The treleporting link kept taking me to a dark corridor.
[9:35] Carolyn Saarinen: well, I’d like to go back to colour coding the transcripts for the sake or legibility
[9:35] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: Well, the color script split the posting into four parts
[9:36] Carolyn Saarinen: there were more colours than that
[9:36] Carolyn Saarinen: what’s wrong?
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: colour is nice but it’s additional work for our RA archivist 🙂 I think it’s more important that they are posted in a timely fashion. colour is an added ‘nice to have’ i think
[9:37] Carolyn Saarinen: Oh is this being debated i nfaction Ims?
[9:37] Mikelo Serevi: I skipped working with it since I was in a hurry
[9:37] Carolyn Saarinen: rather than in this meeting openly?
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: not being debated in CSDF IMs. we’re not having any discussion there
[9:37] Pip Torok: nor in DPU either …
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: can’t speak for other factions 🙂
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: i move that we progress to the next item on the agenda
[9:38] Pip Torok: second
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I rather wonder myself on this matter
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: call me a perfectionist in my work
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but when was it a choice of the one with the job as to how to deliver the service ?
[9:39] Arria Perreault: motion seconded
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the employer sets the criteria to work by
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the employee
[9:40] Arria Perreault: RA members please vot: aye or nay to move this item to the next meeting
[9:40] Pip Torok: aye
[9:40] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless qualified by the body in charge
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: nay
[9:40] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[9:40] Carolyn Saarinen: nay
[9:40] Lilith Ivory: nay
[9:41] Timo Gufler: nay
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: crashed 🙁
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: aye to moving to the next agenda item
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: wb pat
[9:41] Arria Perreault: Pat, we are voting on your motion to move this point to the next meeting
[9:42] Patroklus Murakami: that’s not quite my motion :-0
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: 🙂
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Finally
[9:42] Arria Perreault: Gelf?
[9:42] Carolyn Saarinen: I am sceptical that the colour coding of transcripts needs to be done manually, perhaps – I’m seculating here – we shoould ASK!
[9:42] Patroklus Murakami: i moved that we progress to teh next item on the agenda i.e. end discussion on the RA transcripts and get on with teh meeting
[9:43] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:43] Pip Torok: and i seconded that motion
[9:43] Arria Perreault: RA members do you confirm your votes?
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Help is here, here’s Cindy
[9:43] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[9:43] Pip Torok: yes
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: hi all….what’s needed?
[9:44] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol: (or was that a joke)?
[9:44] Imotali Antiesse: yes
[9:44] Carolyn Saarinen: Is there software to colour code the transcripts Cindy?
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: common sense and clarity mostly
[9:44] Gelf Yalin: aye
[9:44] Gelf Yalin: sorry lots of lag
[9:44] Mikelo Serevi: Cindy, no one has access to edit the e-mail list for the recorder to add me
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol: yes, gwyn wrote a script tha tI’ve been using, I posted info in response to your posting on the forum
[9:44] Carolyn Saarinen: Right.
[9:44] Lilith Ivory: I think Gwyn started to talk about that
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol: I agree, it helps a log
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol: *lot
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: gwynethllewelyn.net/colour-code/
[9:45] Carolyn Saarinen: There we go children, no need for taantrums!
[9:45] Arria Perreault: Timo, Caro, Stui, Lilith, do you confirm yourvote?
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have said Nay
[9:45] Carolyn Saarinen: yes
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was my vote
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it still is
[9:46] Carolyn Saarinen: but I’ve actually gone ahead, asked a question and got an answer, cos I’m a little clever-clogs!
[9:46] Lilith Ivory: I confirm
[9:46] Timo Gufler: aye instead of nay from me
[9:46] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to remind people that I’m a volunteer… for the moment
[9:47] Arria Perreault: and I say aye
[9:47] Arria Perreault: / aye, 3 nay – motion carries
[9:47] Arria Perreault: 7 aye
[9:48] Arria Perreault: we move to the next point
[9:48] Arria Perreault: a. Resolution to thank the Exectutive Team of the former Term
[9:48] Arria Perreault: I have tried a make a short summary. Please correct me if I am wrong
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear!
[9:49] Arria Perreault: Jamie Palisades has served for 3 terms as Chancellor. It is the longest period for this position in the history of the CDS.
[9:49] Arria Perreault: It was a period of expansion for CDS, as we have made the merging with the Al Andalus Community. The Monastery sim was also added with his support.
[9:49] Arria Perreault: Jamie had a Team to help him in his tasks:
[9:50] Arria Perreault: I have tried to make a list. I hope I did not forget anybody
[9:50] Arria Perreault: Rose Springvale, PIO and also AA Treasurer
[9:50] Arria Perreault: As PIO, she was also helped for a part of this period by Brian Livingstone who worked mainly on the portal
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone shouts: YA OR JAMIE !
[9:51] Arria Perreault: Sudane Erato, CDS Treasurer
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *F
[9:51] Arria Perreault: Aliasi Stonenberger, Archivist
[9:51] Arria Perreault: Sonja Strom and Lilith Ivory as caretakers
[9:51] Arria Perreault: Did I forget someone?
[9:51] Arria Perreault: sorry 🙂
[9:52] Arria Perreault: We can thank all these persons for the time and the energy they have given to the life of our community.
[9:52] Arria Perreault: For this reason, I propose that we vote a resolution to thank them officially.
[9:52] Pip Torok: second
[9:52] Arria Perreault: I need a second
[9:52] Arria Perreault: thank you Pip
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: ahem 🙂
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami clutches pearls
[9:53] Arria Perreault: RA members, please say aye if you agree to vote a resolution to thank the Executive Team
[9:54] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:54] Pip Torok: aye
[9:54] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:54] Lilith Ivory: abstain as I’m on the list 🙂
[9:54] Gelf Yalin: aye
[9:54] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye 😉 (sorry!!!!)
[9:54] Timo Gufler: aye
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE
[9:55] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:56] Arria Perreault: I propose we applause them now
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami claps
[9:56] Pip Torok: second
[9:56] Mikelo Serevi: Thx to all 🙂
[9:56] Mikelo Serevi: Applauds!!!
[9:56] Gelf Yalin: clap clap
[9:56] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE!
[9:56] Delia Lake:
[9:56] Timo Gufler claps
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it’s ok I’ll save my clapping for private
[9:56] Arria Perreault: claps, claps 🙂
[9:57] Imotali Antiesse: claps 10x
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that those mentioned know my appreciation without the show
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol wonders if we’re clapping for the exec team….or the streaker 🙂
[9:57] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:58] Arria Perreault: We can move to the next point: Election of the Chancellor
[9:58] Arria Perreault: I will start with a comment about the list of candidates
[9:59] Arria Perreault: I have published a post in the forum to announce the position with the deadline
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Deadline?
[10:00] Arria Perreault: end of the application period
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: yes, we had extended the deadline to yesterday
[10:01] Arria Perreault: until the end of this application period, I have received only one application, a notecard from Sonja Strom
[10:01] Arria Perreault: I have published the list in the forum
[10:02] Keila Forager: Hmmm I looked today and didn’t see it
[10:02] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2692
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *wonders aloud why no one wants the job*
[10:03] Arias Ahren: Good question
[10:03] Arria Perreault: few time later, I was asked by some citizen about the candidacy of Jamie Palisades
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol smiles
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: I think most of the available people are on the RA atm
[10:03] Keila Forager: Wonders how Sonja will be able to run two communities..
[10:03] Delia Lake: Madam LRA, if I may, as a member of the SC I feel it is my duty to point out that the Constitution does not specify how a CDS citizen should make application to the RA.
[10:04] Arria Perreault: let me finish
[10:04] Arria Perreault: They told me they were sure he had declared his intention in the forums
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where’s the majik word ?
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Nominations fro the floor are in order.
[10:05] Arria Perreault: I did not found any clear declaration in the forums from Jamie
[10:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *wonders why Jamie is not here to talk about his decision*
[10:05] Lilith Ivory: two weeks ago he seemed to be the only candidate..
[10:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would have thought he would be
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right…
[10:05] Carolyn Saarinen: Maybe no-one told him?
[10:06] Arria Perreault: in order to avoid any issue, I have asked him directly
[10:06] Pip Torok: fwiw i heard nothing in an IM of 3 hours ago
[10:06] Solomon Mosely: fwiw…?
[10:06] Ariel Feden: for what it is worth
[10:06] Pip Torok: (for what it’s worth)
[10:07] Solomon Mosely: ahh, thanks
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Jamie has answered me that he doesnt do not plan to seek re-election
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when a person doesn’t declare clearly for a job that he has done for three terms
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: one must wonder why
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what has changed ?
[10:07] Solomon Mosely: …cuz he just did it for three terms?
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Jamie has answered me that he doesnt plan to seek re-election*
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I doubt that
[10:07] Solomon Mosely: but point taken, stu
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami thinks it’s difficult to speculate on teh motives of someone who isn’t here to answer for himself…
[10:07] Mikelo Serevi: Not declaring is clear enough
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie is committed to CDS
[10:08] Timo Gufler: three terms must have been very tiresome to him
[10:08] Mikelo Serevi: I have a very high opinion of Sonja and her abilities 😉
[10:08] Timo Gufler: me too
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: I don’t
[10:08] Arria Perreault: so now we have only one candidate
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami: tut tut soro
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well not judging by his cmmittment prior to now
[10:08] Mikelo Serevi: That should make the vote straightforward
[10:09] Arria Perreault: we will proceed to the election
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he seemed far from tired wth it up to two weeks ago
[10:09] Pip Torok: I propose we move to candidate’s speech
[10:09] Carolyn Saarinen: ‘Election’?
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: an election would surely require two or more choices ?
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol laughs behind her hand at the term “election”
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: second
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja…. it’s all yours
[10:09] Arria Perreault: thank you Pat
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm… may I have a word?
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if I may bow you can take your position
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry perhaps not
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: i think that jamie was also elected unopposed? maybe more than once?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: ok Gwyn
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we can short cut the stageshw
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: before someone makes a musical of it
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:10] Keila Forager: This was from a post in the forum…I did indicate that I am willing to serve again, but would be happy to see a competent new leader as well.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, since we have a SC member here…
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: People have complained that we don’t follow due process, but we are in this case.
[10:10] Keila Forager: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2686#p14215
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: “CDS Election – Broadway style”
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Railroaded
[10:10] Imotali Antiesse: 🙂
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: the RA set the process at it’s previous meeting. it has been followed and we have one candidate
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if the SC accepts that post (Keila just pasted it) as a willingness to run for condaidate?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If yes, we have 2 candidates
[10:11] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, Jamie has written to me his position
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, well…
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why don’t we start this Chancellorship with a fresh coat of whitewash ?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: out wth the old etc
[10:11] Arria Perreault: I think we have to respect him
[10:11] Carolyn Saarinen hands out brushes
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we already dropped colour coding
[10:11] Gelf Yalin: I m offended by the lack of respect being afforded to Sonja
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Publish the note ms RA
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: now on to ushering in
[10:12] Patroklus Murakami: me too gelf
[10:12] Pip Torok: move to vote on tabled motion
[10:12] Arria Perreault: please
[10:12] Arria Perreault: we have a motion
[10:12] Carolyn Saarinen: ooh ‘respect’
[10:12] Arria Perreault: there is a second
[10:12] Carolyn Saarinen leafs through CDS dictionary
[10:12] Pip Torok: yes pats
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps on this conveyorbelt I’m alrready set on the way out too
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: for being outspoken
[10:13] Mikelo Serevi: pip, the vote is the election?
[10:13] Carolyn Saarinen: are you still here? 😉
[10:13] Arria Perreault: RA members who agrees to move to the election, please say aye
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I propose a motion
[10:13] Gelf Yalin: aye
[10:13] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[10:13] Pip Torok: no … to candidates speech
[10:13] Timo Gufler: aye!!
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to postpone this election
[10:13] Pip Torok: aye
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: until Jamie speaks at RA
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: the motion it to move to candidate’s speech
[10:13] Arria Perreault: (it belong to the process of election, Pip 🙂
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: about his candidacy
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:13] Mikelo Serevi: we’re in a motion already, stui
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: *is
[10:13] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:14] Carolyn Saarinen: Hey if Pat can re-write a motion mid-vote, Stui can propse one. Or is there another tule I missed?
[10:14] Mikelo Serevi: Is that a nay, caro?
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Here he is
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps we need to approve a decorating budget too
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone shouts: welcome back to JAMIE !
[10:15] Lilith Ivory: we should wait for Jamie
[10:15] Carolyn Saarinen: It’s a nay
[10:15] Lilith Ivory: I want to hear him first
[10:15] Gelf Yalin: we are in a vote
[10:15] Arria Perreault: (election_ speech of the candidate, question from RA members, vote)
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m thinking about my response
[10:15] Carolyn Saarinen: seconds Stui’s motion
[10:15] Timo Gufler: Jamie told to Arria his decision already
[10:16] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think we can nest a motion like that
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: So she says
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then bringing Jamie here will solve the question
[10:16] Gelf Yalin: were are we on the votes for the current motion?
[10:16] Pip Torok: we definately cant nest motion
[10:16] Mikelo Serevi: The posting in the forum is fairly clear
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: sigh
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can applaud him in person
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: no…he’s offline again
[10:16] Keila Forager: He just went offline
[10:16] Gelf Yalin: can we get back on point please?
[10:17] Pip Torok: agree with gelf
[10:17] Arria Perreault: I have casted 4 votes
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m still considering
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s a tough choice
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I trust you will be patient with me
[10:17] Timo Gufler: timeout…
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If Jamie is having difficulties logging in, but if he intends to come to the RA, then, well, I agree we should wait…
[10:18] Keila Forager: Just because he wasn’t “seeking” reelection, doesn’t mean he isn’t willing to serve if elected…according to the post I read
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: stui, filibustering is really not on
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: do you outrank me Timo ?
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … within limits
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: As long as you aren’t being deliberately disruptive, stui
[10:18] Timo Gufler: I think we should go on
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and do you Pat know my mindbtter than me ?
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: Jamie is be know for having troubles to sty online on sundays
[10:18] Pip Torok: agree with Timo
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: It looked like a crash to me
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: @ Lillith
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: i have seen disruption before and this is what it looks like
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol notes that jamie is back online
[10:19] Timo Gufler: why are you so worried about Jamie, when he has told his decision
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: Pat 😉
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat I will have my time to think
[10:19] Pip Torok hopes the disruption is not deliberate
[10:19] Imotali Antiesse: Yes, and LRA already said so too
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, he said he wasn’t running
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: We only have Arria’s statement
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if I need it 🙂
[10:19] Gelf Yalin: the other parties made no effort to have a candidate…that isn’t our fault…please stop disrupting the process and lets move on
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: No proof
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: And we have a competant and willing candidate
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Hearsay
[10:19] Gelf Yalin: we are not in the debate…we are in the vote
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is it so bad that I want clarity ?
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Publish the note
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I proposed a motion
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi agrees with gelf
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was disregarded
[10:20] Cindy Ecksol thinks that we’re now in the “faction-free” CDS since the start of the term….
[10:20] Gelf Yalin: yes it is bad… stui…you want the opposite of clarity
[10:20] Mikelo Serevi: because we’re in a motion, stui
[10:20] Timo Gufler: for me it seems some are not trusting in our LRA
[10:20] Ariel Feden: raises hand
[10:20] Arria Perreault: I would to cast other votes
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: it is a shame that jamie did not make clear that he was not standing but. since he has not said he is, and is not here to say he wants to. we must assume he is not a candidate
[10:20] Lilith Ivory: TPing Jamie in now
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want clarity upon the decision of Jamie
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: hopefully we will now get it
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: before I will elect anyone
[10:20] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie :))
[10:20] Keila Forager: Hi Jamie 🙂
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: drum rolls… and Jamie pops in 😉
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tht’s common sense
[10:21] Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not disruption
[10:21] Pip Torok wishes the voting to be completed
[10:21] Lilith Ivory: great to see you here 🙂
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, i hope you can restore some civility to these proceedings
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am equal to every one of you
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you won’t speak for me
[10:21] Carolyn Saarinen: and civil with it Stui
[10:21] Arria Perreault: Jamie, we are in the middle of a vote to move to the election
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I speak for myself
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when I have the facts
[10:21] Arria Perreault: I have informed the Assembly about your decision
[10:22] Timo Gufler: some here seem not to trust in word of LRA
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Yep
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re all stalling to see if you’re a candidate or not!
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: hi- I am not, if sonjas acceptable to RA: told arria yesterday.
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: crashy iPhone again :p sorry
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: I’d like to hear from yourselof what was going wrong
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: thank you, arria, I apologize for not being able to talk with, er, my usual speed
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that could be one way of looking at it
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or it could be that we don’t understand what would motivate Jamie not to stand again
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: let’s be grateful we have a competent candidate, hmm?
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and thats a different thing
[10:23] Mikelo Serevi: That’s what I said..
[10:24] Pip Torok: shall we continue with the _vote_ ….?
[10:24] Arria Perreault: thank you Jamie
[10:24] Gelf Yalin: I did not read in the CDS constituion where we are required to have s eapch from the outgoing presdient that he doesn’t want to run….
[10:24] Arria Perreault: I have casted 4 votes, we continue
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: well, i deeply apologize for causing any confusion – and I agree with Gelf 🙂
[10:24] Carolyn Saarinen: I didn’t read that we couldn’t ask a question of the only person able to answer it
[10:25] Gelf Yalin: he just did, so move on
[10:25] Timo Gufler: yes, please
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie. you will see that we passed a unanimous vote of thanks for the work of the Executive team for the last term (and to your for the last three terms)
[10:25] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve voted, who’s left?
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: *you
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: caro, simply, as I said in the forums, 3 terms is plenty for any one person. and thank you, Pat.
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: sigh aye then
[10:26] Arria Perreault: Do you have a speech, Jamie? We have voted a resolution to thank you and your teams. I would like to finish the vote first
[10:26] Carolyn Saarinen: Ok
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: vote first, for sure
[10:27] Arria Perreault: please vote
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: nay
[10:27] Timo Gufler: aye
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: i voted aye, before
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that it’s not an election
[10:27] Mikelo Serevi: It’s legal
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s an appointment
[10:28] Gelf Yalin: no more debate…vote
[10:28] Arria Perreault: we are voting now
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: stui, jamie was elected unopposed to. more than once
[10:28] Pip Torok: aye
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: *too
[10:28] Gelf Yalin: aye
[10:28] Imotali Antiesse: whatever, AYE
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was before my time on RA
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we amended the wording I’d say aye
[10:29] Arria Perreault: Mikelo and Caro?
[10:29] Arias Ahren: Abstain
[10:29] Mikelo Serevi: I said aye
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I said aye too
[10:29] Carolyn Saarinen: abstain
[10:29] Mikelo Serevi: It was just about ten feet up the discussion
[10:29] Arria Perreault: I say aye
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and for the record it has nothing to do with the candidate
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I haven’t an issue with Sonja as I’m sre she knows
[10:30] Arria Perreault: 9 aye, 1 nay, 1 abstains
[10:30] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:31] Mikelo Serevi: Congratulations, Sonja 🙂
[10:31] Arria Perreault: I will first give the floor to Jamie, for his speech. Then I will give the floor to SOnja, to present herself as candidate. Then RA members will have the opporunity to ask questions to the candidate
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: simply, thanks to you all for your service and friendship; I’m proud to be a part of our very successful experiment in sel governance; i’m staying in CDS; will have final reports posted to the Forums & look forward to helping transition matters over to Sonja who had my warmest congratulations … and when’s the party?
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (not yet, Mikelo lol the motion was jujst to allow the candidates to present themselves )
[10:32] Keila Forager: on the 27th 🙂
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: (I know, oops)
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (tee hee )
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: 🙂 I would be a hypocrite if I did not find one-candidate elections appropriate 🙂
[10:33] Arria Perreault: are you done, Jamie?
[10:33] Mikelo Serevi: lol jamie
[10:33] Keila Forager: let him finish..
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Jamie
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a sepulcral silence sets in at the RA while Jamie furiously types on his iPhone… )
[10:36] Mikelo Serevi: (dang that sparkle)
[10:36] Lilith Ivory giggles
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: ha- I was done, thx
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I thought! haha
[10:36] Solomon Mosely: lol
[10:36] Arria Perreault: 8:29] Zeus Argus est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Mikelo Serevi est connectÃ©)
[8:29] pixivor Allen est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Thinkerer Melville est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Moon Adamant est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Satir DeCuir est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Alexia Carnell est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Lizzo Dreamscape est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Pip Torok est connectÃ©)
[8:29] Second Life: Your object ‘Object’ has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Jamie Palisades from parcel ‘C.13’ at Colonia Nova 115, 187 due to parcel owner return.
[8:30] Connexion au chat vocal du Monde en cours
[8:30] ConnectÃ©)
[8:34] Mathoni Zuhrah est connectÃ©)
[8:38] Moon Adamant est dÃ©nnectÃ©10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (but I remained silent nevertheless)
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whoops
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what was that, Arria??
[10:37] Arria Perreault: a copy-past of the transcript 😉
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a french lesson
[10:37] Arria Perreault: sorry
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: ?
[10:37] Solomon Mosely sccots to make room for the hat entrance
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Qui qu’a vu coco ?
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: copy/paste malfunction 😉
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: Le prim ejecte becase I fixed the temporary floor in that open CN parcel 😉
[10:38] Arria Perreault: If Jaie is finished, I propose we appluase him again
[10:38] Arria Perreault: Jamie*
[10:38] Pip Torok: second!
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: I’m all for that
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[10:38] Gelf Yalin: claps
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: Applauds!!!
[10:38] Timo Gufler claps!!
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: applauds
[10:38] Pip Torok: applause ……..
[10:39] Ulysse Alexandre: /applauds
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if I applaud any more at RA my hands are going to chap
[10:39] Imotali Antiesse: clapsss
[10:39] Delia Lake:
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn heartily applauds
[10:39] Carolyn Saarinen: /claps
[10:39] Keila Forager: Yay Jamie :))
[10:39] Arria Perreault applauds Jamie
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: thanks so much, and can I officially congraulate Sonja yet?
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: not just yet!
[10:39] Arias Ahren: Thanks for what almost everyone here sees as magnamous service, Jamie
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh, no. Sonja is supposed to do a presentation speech;
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re supposed to ask her questions
[10:40] Arria Perreault: let us finish 🙂
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and *then* we vote.
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: 🙂
[10:40] Solomon Mosely: i propose we stop clapping
[10:40] Arria Perreault: Now I will the word to Sonja, to present herself as candidate
[10:40] Pip Torok: lol
[10:40] Arria Perreault: Sonja, you have the floor
[10:40] Sonja Strom: excuse me Stui 🙂
[10:41] Keila Forager: Hi Sonja 🙂
[10:41] Sonja Strom: Hello everybody!
[10:41] Sonja Strom: Thank you all for coming out on such a laggy Sunday to be here.
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: Hi Sonja!
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves*
[10:41] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[10:41] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your service to this community in the virtual world of Second Life.
[10:42] Sonja Strom: Particularly with thanks to outgoing Chancellor Jamie Palisades.
[10:43] Sonja Strom: He has given three terms – over one and a half years – of good service to this Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:44] Sonja Strom: With that being clear, I will move on to why I am standing here before you.
[10:44] Sonja Strom: Most of you know me fairly well I think…
[10:44] Sonja Strom: but I can elaborate on a few aspects of my being here.
[10:45] Sonja Strom: In my life I most enjoy helping people to have things be how they want.
[10:45] Sonja Strom: In RL I work in customer service,
[10:45] Sonja Strom: in SL I have a consulting firm, headquartered in Neufreistadt.
[10:46] Sonja Strom: Most of the reason why I am in SL is because I like how it enables people from all over the world,
[10:46] Sonja Strom: and in all kinds of social and economic statuses,
[10:47] Sonja Strom: to work together in ways they might very well never do in any other way.
[10:47] Sonja Strom: This perspective is what led me to the CDS in the first place,
[10:47] Sonja Strom: and it is what keeps me wanting to be a part of this community.
[10:48] Sonja Strom: Now I have been in the CDS for over 3 years –
[10:48] Sonja Strom: I have served in the Representative Assembly for three terms.
[10:48] Sonja Strom: I have been a trustworthy citizen of the CDS,
[10:49] Sonja Strom: being quite open about my perspectives on things in the open forums,
[10:49] Sonja Strom: being willing to let everybody know my thoughts and views as a matter of public record.
[10:49] Sonja Strom: I have been a Caretaker of the CDS,
[10:50] Sonja Strom: and a Faction Leader.
[10:50] Sonja Strom: I have also been active in Second Life in general.
[10:50] Sonja Strom: I used to own a very highly respected dance club,
[10:51] Sonja Strom: and have helped to build other communities as well as this one.
[10:51] Sonja Strom: The way I want to continue to help to build this one is in partnership with all of you 🙂
[10:51] Sonja Strom: Thank you very much for your trust in me.
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you!!
[10:51] Sonja Strom bows
[10:52] Mikelo Serevi claps heartily
[10:52] Timo Gufler claps
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[10:52] Fern Leissa: claps
[10:52] Imotali Antiesse: claps claps claps
[10:52] Pip Torok cheers heartily
[10:52] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Sonja
[10:52] Lilith Ivory applauds
[10:52] Keila Forager claps
[10:52] Ulysse Alexandre applauds
[10:52] Solomon Mosely: yay!, clapity clap clap
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: .mem claps
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: I miss contakt! (the club)
[10:52] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[10:53] Arria Perreault: Now I will I will give to RA members the opportunity to ask questions to the candidate
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have 2 questions lol
[10:53] Arria Perreault: who will the floor?
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: greedy gwyn 🙂
[10:54] Arria Perreault: thank you, Gwyn
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: always, Pat 🙂
[10:54] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami raises hand to ask question later
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is very simple..
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s usual (not obligatory) that Chancellors will present their teams for the Executive,
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a question too
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since at least events are the heart and soul of the CDS, I wonder if you have a name in mind for PIO?
[10:55] Arria Perreault: I will give you the floor, Stui, after SOnj’as answer
[10:55] Sonja Strom: This is a good question Gwyneth.
[10:56] Arria Perreault: Pat first, then Stui 🙂
[10:56] Sonja Strom: The CDS has had very good PIOs in the past,
[10:57] Sonja Strom: and I would be happy if they would continue to support this community in the way that is enjoyable for them…
[10:57] Carolyn Saarinen: One from me too.
[10:57] Arria Perreault: ok, Caro
[10:57] Sonja Strom: if they would like to do so, and if anybody else would like to participate and help to make this community a fun and successful one,
[10:57] Sonja Strom: I would be happy to hear from them.
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, your second question
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The second one is more tricky lol
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since you’re also a community manager of Arosa, Sonja,
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if you’re splitting your time between the CDS and Arosa,
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or planning for Arosa to join the CDS at some point too?
[11:00] Solomon Mosely took that as a given
[11:00] Sonja Strom: When I first left Help Island I looked for a mountain community…
[11:00] Sonja Strom: and did not really find one
[11:01] Sonja Strom: I thought about starting a mountain village somewhere,
[11:01] Sonja Strom: but then found Neufreistadt
[11:02] Sonja Strom: I decided to see if I could help direct Neufreistadt toward my vision
[11:02] Sonja Strom: but found my doing that was not widely popular in the CDS
[11:03] Sonja Strom: there were a few people who also wanted it to be an alpine town,
[11:03] Sonja Strom: but more who did not really want mountains to be made around it or near it
[11:03] Sonja Strom: so I began looking for if there could be a way I could move forward with my original concept,
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and I founded Arosa,
[11:04] Sonja Strom: intending for it possibly to become the first mainland area of the CDS,
[11:04] Sonja Strom: what in the CDS Constitution is described as a franchulate.
[11:05] Sonja Strom: I like both the CDS and Arosa, and I see no reason why they can not work together.
[11:05] Sonja Strom: I believe most of us here are involved in other aspects of SL outside of the CDS,
[11:05] Keila Forager: But for you , could be a conflict of interest..
[11:05] Sonja Strom: and they can all compliment each other.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: Keila, I don’t see it as a conflict of interest, any more than your property next to Arosa is for you.
[11:06] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Sonja. Patroklus now
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: ty arria
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: my question is about completing the merger between CDS and Al Andalus
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: i think we have completed some of the process but, in some ways, it still feels like we are a bit separate
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: what would you do to complete teh realisation of the merger? to find truly one community which respects the traditions of both?
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Patroklus, I agree this is a very important issue in the CDS at the moment,
[11:08] Sonja Strom: and for this term.
[11:09] Sonja Strom: One thing I see is,
[11:09] Sonja Strom: the community will need to decide what it wants for itself,
[11:09] Sonja Strom: and I, as a public servant, will do what I can to help the community to realise its dreams.
[11:10] Sonja Strom: From my perspective,
[11:10] Sonja Strom: there are two major issues that would be helpful to have resolved this term…
[11:11] Sonja Strom: One is for the definition of who is a CDS citizen to be agreed upon,
[11:11] Sonja Strom: so everybody knows what their status is in this regard.
[11:12] Sonja Strom: Another is for the relationship of the Al Andalus sims within the CDS to be agreed upon in a way that leaves as many of the residents as possible happy with this relationship.
[11:13] Sonja Strom: I believe mostly these issues will be something for the RA to work on this term, but I will do whatever I can to be helpful.
[11:13] Sonja Strom: Thank you for working together on them 🙂
[11:13] Rose Springvale wonders what is left to be determined
[11:13] Arria Perreault: Thank you. Stui has a question.
[11:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: What does AA mean to you and to your vision of CDS? How does it feature in the future of the Greater body of the CDS? How do you plan to assist the community there ? What is the issues for you in the life of AA? And what does AA bring to CDS ?
[11:14] Sonja Strom: Stui, it seems to me there is more than one question there…
[11:14] Arria Perreault: 4 questions 😉
[11:14] Sonja Strom: but I will address your concerns.
[11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wasn’t elected for my mathematical capabilities
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: just my ability to speak
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he he
[11:15] Timo Gufler: 🙂
[11:15] Sonja Strom: As I said earlier my interest in participating in Second Life is mostly community building,
[11:15] Sonja Strom: and helping people to have things be how they want them to be…
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can hold lessons in counting
[11:15] Sonja Strom: this is my persspective on Al Andalus.
[11:16] Sonja Strom: Al Andalus is a beautiful place,
[11:16] Sonja Strom: representing a rich history in RL and in SL.
[11:16] Sonja Strom: Although it used to be in competition with the CDS I always supported it,
[11:16] Rose Springvale: lol
[11:16] Sonja Strom: and went there to events and so on,
[11:16] Sonja Strom: because I liked it,
[11:17] Sonja Strom: and I liked the people involved in it.
[11:17] Sonja Strom: When the opportunity came up for Al Andalus to join the Confederation of Democratic Sims,
[11:18] Sonja Strom: I was in the RA, and I supported this from the beginning to where we are now.
[11:18] Sonja Strom: My thinking about supporting Al Andalus is that it is now a valuable part of the CDS.
[11:19] Sonja Strom: It seems to me we can make this community even greater than it is already,
[11:19] Carolyn Saarinen: Valuable how, to echo Stui’s last point?
[11:19] Sonja Strom: which mostly will come out of our participation in it.
[11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if my memory serves correct, CDS representation at events wavered after a point…
[11:20] Sonja Strom: Carolyn, do you think I have not expressed that I think Al Andalus is a valuable part of the CDS?
[11:22] Arria Perreault: Carolyn, you had a question too?
[11:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my question relates to my wondering whether AA will become the CDS toy that got boring
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
[11:23] Arria Perreault: Stui, you got an answer from SOnja
[11:23] Sonja Strom: My perspective on that Stui,
[11:23] Sonja Strom: (thanks Arria)
[11:23] Sonja Strom: is that Al Andalus is a community,
[11:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was inviting more detail to be given
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not asking for a response
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: merely passing comment
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as is my right
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am a citizen
[11:24] Sonja Strom: yes Stui,
[11:24] Carolyn Saarinen: My original question was keila’s
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and a member of the TA
[11:24] Arria Perreault: thank you, Caro
[11:24] Sonja Strom: but is it a question of me, or of the RA?
[11:24] Patroklus Murakami: The Territorial Army? 😉
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or does this LRA prefer my thoughts not be explored ?
[11:24] Patroklus Murakami is puzzled 🙂
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: RA
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat
[11:25] Patroklus Murakami: oh, i see 🙂
[11:25] Rose Springvale: is this meeting timed?
[11:25] Cindy Ecksol thought it might be the “T&A Club”
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone can typo
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I suggest Sonja answers Stui’s last question
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s down to you to be a pedant
[11:25] Mikelo Serevi isn’t sure what stui is getting at
[11:25] Gelf Yalin: I think Stui the wording of your question is once again offensive…that somehow the CDS thinks of AA as a “toy”
[11:25] Sonja Strom: I will be happy to give my own answer, if that is what is wanted.
[11:25] Gelf Yalin: your question is not productive and is simply an attach
[11:25] Gelf Yalin: attack
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my wording is direct
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: nothign more or less than that
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: offence is personal choice
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: politics is about action
[11:26] Arria Perreault: Sonja has the floor for an answer, Stui
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, I like that, Stui 🙂 very true hehe
[11:26] Keila Forager: Yay Stui 🙂
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I ask directly so that I get the answer
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami waits to hear sonja…
[11:27] Keila Forager: Sonja, your answers are general and vague, at least to me. I think he wants specifics..
[11:27] Sonja Strom: Stui, you are asking me to answer your question of how I view Al Andalus within the CDS?
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes and it’s relevance
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and how you will make it as much a focus as any of the sims
[11:29] Sonja Strom: My perspective is that the whole of the CDS is a community,
[11:29] Sonja Strom: made up of three different thematic communities
[11:29] Sonja Strom: one of which is Al Andalus.
[11:29] Sonja Strom: The community of Al Andalus is made up of people –
[11:29] Sonja Strom: People who bring a lot to the CDS,
[11:30] Sonja Strom: including culture, values, ideas, concepts,
[11:30] Sonja Strom: and anything else they choose to bring to it from their participation in it.
[11:30] Pip Torok notes that Stui raises the possibility of one community _toying_ with another … and is not happy
[11:31] Sonja Strom: The value of our community comes from our participation, which is why I am here standing before you.
[11:31] Arria Perreault: thank you Sonja for your answers
[11:31] Arria Perreault: anything to add?
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is pleased that he is not here to please people but to represent the community and it’s diversity without the need for sugar coating for those easily offended
[11:31] Sonja Strom: Have I answered your question Stui?
[11:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well to a point
[11:32] Arria Perreault: Ok
[11:32] Sonja Strom: What part would you like for me to address more?
[11:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the distance between detail and generic
[11:33] Mikelo Serevi notes that people’s time is not invaluable
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn would suggest a more complete answer on the forums; we *do* have a time limit on these sessions
[11:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when one stands under an umbrella he cannot record specific raindrops
[11:33] Arria Perreault: Stui, I am watching the clock …
[11:33] Timo Gufler seconds Gwyn
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: yes, i will need to go soon. it woudl be good to make progress
[11:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but he would notice one in the eye if he had no umbrella
[11:33] Arria Perreault: Time to move
[11:33] Gelf Yalin: you are onI motion to close discussion
[11:33] Gelf Yalin: I motion to close discussion
[11:34] Rose Springvale: wow, lots of people still in line …
[11:34] Pip Torok: second
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
[11:34] Sonja Strom: One thing I can see there Stui is, the New Guild can work together with Al Andalus to make for more and better building by sharing the talents of builders accross the CDS.
[11:34] Arria Perreault: we vote on the motion
[11:34] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:34] Timo Gufler: aye
[11:34] Pip Torok: aye
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:34] Gelf Yalin: aye
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:34] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[11:35] Rose Springvale: this is the motion to cut off discussion? sorry, no one restated
[11:35] Gelf Yalin: yes
[11:35] Mikelo Serevi: yes, as the discussion is going nowhere
[11:35] Mikelo Serevi: not to sugar coat it 😉
[11:35] Cindy Ecksol shrugs
[11:35] Arria Perreault: Caro, Stui, Lilith?
[11:35] Rose Springvale: i see. thanks .. thought the citizens had a chance to ask questions. but w’e
[11:36] Cindy Ecksol notes a lot of people with questions still in line….including that no one asked the citizens if they have questions
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: we’ve been here two and a half hours folks!
[11:36] Rose Springvale: so ?
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d probably be rather silly to adjourn after opening the meeting asking for the concerns of a citizen to be heard first and then for none to be heard at all
[11:36] Gelf Yalin: thinks that most of these questions are better for other forums
[11:36] Lilith Ivory: I don’t think we should cut off disussing while there still are questions
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all because we haven’t had time to serve the purpose
[11:37] Gelf Yalin: this has gone on long enough
[11:37] Patroklus Murakami: if so much time hadn’t been wasted earlier…
[11:37] Pip Torok agrees with Gelf
[11:37] Gelf Yalin: then vote nay if you disagree
[11:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: waste is a matter of opinion
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gelf has a point; if you think we should go on, just vote nay
[11:37] Arria Perreault: Caro, Stui, Lilith, your vote, please
[11:37] Solomon Mosely: like taking a vote to say thank you?
[11:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: nay
[11:37] Lilith Ivory: nay
[11:38] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn tickles Caro
[11:38] Sonja Strom: I am here at the discretion of the RA, but one point I could maybe bring up is, the Chancellor does not determine the course of direction for the CDS…
[11:38] Arria Perreault: 8 aye, 3 nay, motion carries
[11:38] Sonja Strom: The Representative Assembly does.
[11:38] Arria Perreault: e move to the election now
[11:38] Arria Perreault: we*
[11:39] Lilith Ivory: how can we elect Sonja while there are open questions?
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[11:39] Gelf Yalin: the vote on ending discussion is over
[11:39] Carolyn Saarinen: sorry briefly afk
[11:40] Gelf Yalin: time for election
[11:40] Carolyn Saarinen: not that it makes much difference eh?
[11:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s ok Caro we’ve been ushered out already
[11:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: your question was out of time
[11:40] Sonja Strom: If the Representative Assembly does not want me to serve, I will stand down.
[11:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: owing to my curiosity
[11:40] Gelf Yalin: yes you are always the victim poor Stui
[11:40] Timo Gufler: there were many good questions and answers, it’s time to move on now
[11:40] Sonja Strom: If that is the case, then there is no point in my continuing to be here.
[11:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I motion for a vote to apologise to you
[11:41] Gelf Yalin: I vote for Sonja
[11:41] Arria Perreault: I call a vote in favour or against the election of Sonja Strom as Chancellor of CDS
[11:41] Gelf Yalin: second
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we did 45 mins of Q&A… the agenda mentioned 20 mins for the whole election process
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: i vote for sonja
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote for Sonja
[11:41] Pip Torok: I vote for Son ja
[11:41] Rose Springvale: smile, so the citizens are not heard, again.
[11:42] Mikelo Serevi: I vote for Sonja
[11:42] Timo Gufler: I vote for Sonja also
[11:42] Lilith Ivory: aye for Sonja
[11:42] Rose Springvale: we get the nomination on the forums one day before, nad no opportunity to discuass
[11:42] Rose Springvale: sigh
[11:42] Carolyn Saarinen: abstain
[11:42] Imotali Antiesse: aye for Sonja
[11:42] Keila Forager: It’s the way of the RA Rose 🙁
[11:42] Solomon Mosely: seriously?
[11:42] Solomon Mosely: this is ok?
[11:43] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[11:43] Mikelo Serevi: That is not true, rose, we followed the established process
[11:43] Rose Springvale: ha
[11:43] Rose Springvale: the constitution had a process
[11:43] Rose Springvale: this RA has changed process each meeting so far
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami notes that ppl were a little more gracious when jamie was elected
[11:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I give AP the right to pass the verdict without my voting on account that it will be done regardless of the logic or my response
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: i would hope we could return to some civility in proceedings
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[11:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and regardless of the questions of the RA
[11:44] Arria Perreault: I vote for Sonja
[11:44] Rose Springvale: jamie didn’t have conficts of interest that have not been discussed, sorry pat. where ar the tender flowers now?
[11:44] Carolyn Saarinen digs out her CDS dictionary and looks ‘gracious’…
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all because the agenda says 20 mins
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we must be more careful in future to study the agenda
[11:44] Pip Torok: They’re here, Rose
[11:44] Gelf Yalin: you didn’t ask questions Stui, only made attacks for the purpose of being disruptive…..next time how about organizing yourself and putting forth and candidate….
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it might be more convenient to the RA to serve it’s purpose then
[11:44] Arria Perreault: Congratulation, Sonja 🙂
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: semantics Gelf
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: your view
[11:44] Gelf Yalin: rather than taking the easy road and being a troll
[11:45] Mikelo Serevi: Congratulations, Sona
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: your opinion
[11:45] Keila Forager: congrats Sonja
[11:45] Arria Perreault: Please, this is an important moment for our community
[11:45] Sonja Strom: Thank you 🙂
[11:45] Timo Gufler: Congratulations, Sonja!!
[11:45] Carolyn Saarinen: Whoah, fight fight fight!
[11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congratulations, Sonja 🙂
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes, congratulations sonja 🙂 i look forward to working with you this term
[11:45] Mikelo Serevi: I also feel stui was being disruptive
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the beauty of democracy is we all have the right to speak
[11:45] Gelf Yalin: congrats Sonja!
[11:45] Tanha Core: congats, have a successful term
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo if you feel that way
[11:45] Junius Inaka: claps!
[11:45] Ulysse Alexandre congratulation Sonia
[11:45] Gelf Yalin: and you also have the right to be outvoted and lose
[11:45] Mikelo Serevi: Yay Sonja!
[11:45] Rose Springvale: Thank you stui, for representing those of us hw didn’t get a chance to speak
[11:45] Gelf Yalin: cplas!
[11:45] Pip Torok: congratulations !!!!!
[11:45] Keila Forager: Stui was asking for a concise answer, not general and vague..
[11:45] Rose Springvale: gelf, welcome to the community
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: outvoted
[11:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that would be a joke
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: could we try to keep things polite? we don’t need to mar the beginning of a new chancelor’s term in this way
[11:46] Gelf Yalin: thank you Rose!
[11:46] Carolyn Saarinen: yeah Gelf, that’s democracy in action. Or something
[11:46] Jamie Palisades claps. Please join me in warmly congratulating Sonja and pledging to help her do a good job for us all 🙂
[11:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that we voted prematurely
[11:46] Arria Perreault: Please, we have a Chancellor now
[11:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with a lack of facts
[11:46] Cindy Ecksol applauds for Sonja
[11:46] Keila Forager claps for Sonja..
[11:46] Solomon Mosely: the issue isnt with sonja, but this process
[11:46] Mikelo Serevi: We’re lucky to have Sonja, and I honestly don’t see what the problem is
[11:46] Sonja Strom: For all who still have questions about my views and thoughts, I will stay here to talk with them.
[11:46] Arria Perreault: I ask for some solemnity for her oath
[11:46] Keila Forager: we have always had a chancellor, just a new one now..
[11:46] Rose Springvale: well, good. i hope you never have to find out
[11:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a chancellor i elected after a campaign and a choice
[11:47] Carolyn Saarinen: ‘gracious’ ‘civility’ ‘polite’ Is that you Pat or an imposter?
[11:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not in the short cut of one and the absence of the other
[11:47] Arria Perreault: Please
[11:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Democracy must be the term for representation of the people in accordance to the stop watch
[11:48] Gelf Yalin: Stui just accept that you lost and move on
[11:48] Gelf Yalin: its okay
[11:48] Gelf Yalin: we can all be freinds now
[11:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Gelf do not patronise me
[11:48] Fern Leissa: claps for Sonja
[11:48] Delia Lake: congratulations Sonja
[11:48] Mikelo Serevi: Sonja is taking the oath here…
[11:48] Arria Perreault: Sonja, we will ask you to swear to respect our Constitution
[11:48] Gelf Yalin: no I am being frank
[11:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you had the option to do as I did
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please… with due respect, and not wishing to feel that I’m ‘interrupting’ anything… can we go on with the ceremony?
[11:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did not break any rules
[11:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but others here did
[11:49] Sonja Strom: Thanks again everybody for your support in making this a wonderful community for all of us.
[11:49] Solomon Mosely: wait, how can we continue with this spirit in the room?
[11:49] Pip Torok supports Gwyneth
[11:49] Soro Dagostino: Its fated Solomen
[11:50] Arria Perreault: Sonja, will you respect our Constitution in your position of Chancellor?
[11:50] Arria Perreault: I, NAME , having been elected as Chancellor of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[11:51] Solomon Mosely: i mean, i’m not against sonja, i’m no lawyer, but something feels very wrong here
[11:51] Soro Dagostino: No agenda posted
[11:51] Sonja Strom: I will be happy to make this declaration,
[11:51] Arria Perreault: Please
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2709
[11:51] Solomon Mosely: i’m flashing bac to florida
[11:52] Sonja Strom: but there are citizens here who don’t want me to?
[11:52] Arria Perreault: The RA elects the Chancellor, SOnja
[11:52] Sonja Strom: If this is the case, I can stand down.
[11:52] Solomon Mosely: i dont think you’re specifically at issue here sonja
[11:52] Arria Perreault: the citizen have elected us
[11:53] Mikelo Serevi: I think Sonja deserves more respect than this
[11:53] Timo Gufler: absolutely!
[11:53] Gelf Yalin: yes!
[11:53] Sonja Strom: The only reason why I would want to serve the community in the position of Chancellor is to help.
[11:53] Sonja Strom: If my help is not wanted, then I can go elsewhere.
[11:53] Solomon Mosely: its terrible you’re caught standing in this, and i admire your grace through it, but there are several respected, conficting opinions here
[11:53] Pip Torok: imo that opinions the one by the overwhelming majority
[11:54] Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid i must go. congratulations to sonja. i think we need to work on building bridges and understanding why some ppl are so upset with this result. but sonja is our new chancellor and should be given our support
[11:54] Arria Perreault: We are in a oath ceremony. I ask for some respect
[11:54] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:54] Patroklus Murakami: this kind of disruption is what ppl have been spending two or more years trying to get beyond!
[11:55] Arria Perreault: Sonja, you can make your declaration
[11:55] Sonja Strom: Does anyone else in this room want to be here in my place?
[11:55] Sonja Strom: I see no volunteers…
I am sponsoring a nest hunt starting NOW! Nests are all over the sim, and are of all types;
Lop Eared, Gem Eyed, Retired bunnies, Radiants, Silkies, and everything else too!
Only $300 and you may get something worth 10 times that! There are tons of nests and LIVE bunnnies hidden all over the market.
Good luck and let the hunting begin!!!!
Come have some fun; find the nests and explore the new sim!!! Here’s your limo:
slurl.com/secondlife/Nectere/134/157/21.
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed …
[11:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja I don’t stand against your candidacy
[11:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or say that you couldn’t or shouldn’t be the chancellor
[11:56] Gelf Yalin: then please lets finish the oath……
[11:56] Arria Perreault: now we can finish the aoth
[11:57] Arria Perreault: Sonja 🙂
[11:57] Sonja Strom: Alright, I will
[11:57] Sonja Strom: I, Sonja Strom , having been elected as Chancellor of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[11:58] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[11:58] Arria Perreault: thank you, SOnja 🙂
[11:58] Gelf Yalin: yea!!!!!
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: Thank you, Sonja!
[11:58] Imotali Antiesse: APPLAUSSSEEEE
[11:58] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: Applauds!!!
[11:58] Junius Inaka: claps!!
[11:58] Arria Perreault: and congratulations
[11:58] Timo Gufler applauds!!!
[11:58] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE …. :-)))
[11:58] Arria Perreault: 🙂
[11:58] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds and congratulates again
[11:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I thank Sonja, but I do not thank the RA
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew, that was tough…
[11:58] Imotali Antiesse: Congrats Sonja
[11:58] Patroklus Murakami: and i’m afraid i must go due to RL
[11:58] Ulysse Alexandre applauds
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye, Pat
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn moves a motion to finish for today..
[11:59] Arria Perreault: ty Gwyn
[11:59] Rose Springvale: again, the citizens are lost
[11:59] Arria Perreault: any second?
[11:59] Rose Springvale: becasues this is the RA of the few.
[11:59] Timo Gufler: seconds
[11:59] Mikelo Serevi: second
[11:59] Pip Torok: second
[12:00] Arria Perreault: vote please
[12:00] Keila Forager: and forget the rest of the agenda??
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:00] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:00] Pip Torok: aye
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Keila, it gets tabled for the next meeting automatically)
[12:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t involve me in this
[12:00] Keila Forager: yippee.
[12:01] Arria Perreault: other votes?
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:01] Carolyn Saarinen: abstain
[12:02] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:03] Soro Dagostino: RL calls.
[12:03] Arria Perreault: I think with 6 aye, we are adjourned
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Bye Soro 🙂
[12:03] Rose Springvale: congratulations sonja
[12:03] Jamie Palisades: See you all at the .Inaugural Ball 🙂

Permalink.

RA Meeting 7 March 2010

Agenda

I. ADMIN
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure
d. 7-day votes

II. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING(-)
a. Report of the Portal/Forum Workgroup
b. Report of the Town Hall Meeting

III. NEW ITEMS
a. Compatibility between the position of caretaker and RA membership (Request from the Chancellor’s Office)
b. Definition of citizen
c. Order of the RA Agenda

IV. Concerns of RA Members

V. Concerns of Citizens

VI. Adjournment
Transcript

[9:04] Arria Perreault: Thank you for coming at the meeting. We can start
[9:04] Arria Perreault: I have published an agenda in the forum and this agenda is available in the amphora
[9:04] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2733
[9:06] Arria Perreault: We begin with the adminitrative part. First point: Get agreements to record session.
[9:06] Arria Perreault: Please clic on the recorder to consent to be recorded
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Second point: Review this agenda
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: these seats upset me
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Any remark or change?
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they cut thru my ankles
[9:08] Carolyn Saarinen: Oh I get that. It sizist!
[9:08] Arria Perreault: no changes?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: so I consider this agenda is ok.
[9:08] Mikelo Serevi: It looks good to me
[9:08] Arria Perreault: Next point: Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Reserve
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha 🙂
[9:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Fern 🙂
[9:09] Carolyn Saarinen: Hello Stui 😉
[9:09] Jeroma Wycliffe: Fern 🙂
[9:09] Arria Perreault: who want to speak? I ask especially the non-RA members
[9:09] Pip Torok: hi everyone
[9:09] Timo Gufler: hi Pip and Fern!
[9:10] Arria Perreault: I notice that Soro has asked to speak. For wichi point, SOro?
[9:10] Carolyn Saarinen: you can sit on my knee if you like Stui
[9:10] Solomon Mosely: nice wig
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: All, it depends.
[9:10] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who is in a wig ?
[9:10] Solomon Mosely rolls his eyes…
[9:10] Carolyn Saarinen: Well my hair’s my own
[9:11] Arria Perreault: Last point of the administrative part: Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure
[9:12] Arria Perreault: I would like to remind that these rules concern also the non-RA members. This is the text:
[9:12] Arria Perreault: All meetings of the RA will be public, and all citizens of CDS are welcome to attend and participate. Non-citizens are welcome too, but they should listen only, and not speak. If non-member residents disrupt proceedings, they should be subject to actions which may end in being Teleported Home and Banned from CDS.
[9:12] Arria Perreault: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: wow, i never saw that quoted in here before
[9:13] Carolyn Saarinen: So shaddap you citizens! :{
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s part of the put up and shut up policy
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: is that a warning shot?
[9:13] Imotali Antiesse: 🙂
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: It applies only to non-citizens.
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: “all citizens of CDS are welcome to attend and participate”
[9:13] Pip Torok: phone brb
[9:14] Arria Perreault: We alonly want to have our meetings in good conditions
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s rather a contradiction isn’t it Pat ?
[9:14] Arria Perreault: every two weeks there are town halls
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: You can move to overule the chair if it becomes an issu.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: no, not really
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: well, good thing we’re discussing the terms of citizenship today
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: participation in silence
[9:15] Arria Perreault: I have a last point: Gwyn has asked for a 7-days vote for all points to vote
[9:15] Carolyn Saarinen: mmph mmmph
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like inaction but asking things to be done
[9:15] Solomon Mosely: what does that mean?
[9:15] Solomon Mosely: the 7 day vote…
[9:15] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t appreciate people implying the RA is somehow repressive of free speech, We are most certainly not
[9:16] Solomon Mosely: hear hear mike
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I think it is moving in that direction
[9:16] Solomon Mosely: thanks
[9:16] Arria Perreault: Gwyn has 7 days to cast her vote
[9:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: solo, it means we give ppl 7 days to vote on issues so that all RA members can vote
[9:16] Carolyn Saarinen: No, Gwyn doesn’t want 7 day votes for me. So no 7 day votes for Gwyn. Move to vote on that!
[9:16] Arria Perreault: we can move to the items from the prior meeting
[9:16] Carolyn Saarinen: No, move to vote!
[9:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: second
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: you are out of order caro
[9:17] Carolyn Saarinen: IHow so P at?
[9:17] Patroklus Murakami: you can’t vote to deny someone a 7-day vote. read the rules of procedure
[9:17] Carolyn Saarinen: Gwyn is on record as wishing to deny me 7 day vores
[9:17] Solomon Mosely: were you actually denied 7 days?
[9:17] Patroklus Murakami: that’s not really relevant caro
[9:17] Carolyn Saarinen: That is not the point
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: CAro it’s all in the interests of fairness isn’t it ?
[9:18] Mikelo Serevi: We were moving on with last week’s business, if caro and stui don’t mind
[9:18] Carolyn Saarinen: No votes for anti-democrats
[9:18] Arria Perreault: a. Report of the Portal/Forum Workgroup (Keila Forager)
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arria is LRA
[9:19] Arria Perreault: I look in the public. Keila is not present to present her report
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I know that thw working group has met last week
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I was not able to attend, but the transcript is in the forum
[9:20] Solomon Mosely: pat, could you post a link to the procedures for 7-day votes, please?
[9:20] Solomon Mosely: i’m just curious now
[9:21] Arria Perreault: I propose we postpone this report for a next meeting if the working is still willing to present it.
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: sure. let me find it first!
[9:21] Solomon Mosely: thanks pat
[9:21] Mikelo Serevi: That sounds reasonable, keila may not have realized she was on the agenda
[9:22] Arria Perreault: possible
[9:22] Arria Perreault: any second for this proposal?
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: second
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: I´m IMing with her at the moment
[9:22] Arria Perreault: is she willing to come?
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: I gave her TP
[9:23] Mikelo Serevi: Even better
[9:23] Carolyn Saarinen: If Pat finds a procedure guareteeing 7 day votes for all RA members, I will move to censure Gwyn for proposing to deny me a 7 day vote.
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: Hi Keila 🙂
[9:23] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:23] Keila Forager: Hi still rezzing
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Keila, do you want to present your report now?
[9:23] Keila Forager: Sure..
[9:24] Arria Perreault: I propose we hear Keila 😉
[9:24] Keila Forager: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2729
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: second 🙂
[9:24] Keila Forager: that is the link from the 3rd meeting..
[9:24] Arria Perreault: anyone ne against?
[9:24] Arria Perreault: 😉
[9:25] Keila Forager: The 2nd meeting no one came to or responded to me..
[9:25] Arria Perreault: Keila, you have thee floor
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn arrives late and apologises… sorry all
[9:25] Keila Forager: although I missed it too due to rl issues..
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: hi gwyn
[9:26] Keila Forager: We had a great mock up of what the portal could be from a citizen, but she has since left CDS..a few days before the meeting
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
[9:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who left Keila ?
[9:26] Keila Forager: I’m working on something now, which should do what we want..
[9:27] Keila Forager: Rather not say Stui…
[9:27] Keila Forager: and someone has been adding to the present portal but I have no knowledge of who..
[9:27] Keila Forager: they haven’t contacted me ..
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: incidentally, I may need access to it, as archivist
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t currently have access
[9:28] Keila Forager: Well I don’t have access to the current one either
[9:28] Arria Perreault: I am surprised, Mikelo
[9:28] Keila Forager: and no idea who is working on it
[9:28] Keila Forager: no offense, but it’s looking more and more clutttered
[9:28] Arria Perreault: I got a confirmation you had an acces from the webmaster
[9:29] Mikelo Serevi: I’ll double check, no one contacted me
[9:29] Keila Forager: I will post a new meeting date and at that time will invite others to see what we are working on
[9:30] Keila Forager: I’m done
[9:30] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Keila
[9:30] Keila Forager: Questions?
[9:31] Arria Perreault: any questions from RA members to Keila?
[9:31] Mikelo Serevi: Sure, what sort of changes were you proposing to the existing site,?
[9:31] Arria Perreault: if it not the case, we wait for your invitation, Keila
[9:32] Arria Perreault: sorry, Mikela
[9:32] Keila Forager: I’m post the meeting time on the forum..
[9:32] Arria Perreault: Mikelo*
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: It’s ok, I had my eyes elsewhere for a sec
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: I mean in general, keila, are you thinking of changing the portal engine, or just the look?
[9:33] Arria Perreault: Keila?
[9:34] Keila Forager: keeping all the present info and addding spots for the community to contribute, so probably the whole thing, so it’s easy to transfer administrative duties and easy for all to use
[9:34] Arria Perreault: an other question?
[9:34] Keila Forager: come to the next meeting if you are interested in helping…that is an open invitation for all
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “the whole thing”, menaing abandoning Typo3 as engine, selecting a new one, and moving all content over? (sorry, I’m just rephrasing Mikelo’s question to see if we understand that right)
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But granted… perhaps this would be better for the meeting…
[9:35] Keila Forager: yes
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, keila :))
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
[9:35] Arria Perreault: thank you again, Keila
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope that at least we get some design specs this time hehe
[9:35] Arria Perreault: Next point
[9:35] Keila Forager: bye
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: Thank keila
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: bye Keila 🙂
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou Keila
[9:36] Pip Torok: bye Keila
[9:36] Arria Perreault: b. Report of the Town Hall Meeting
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and have a good evening 🙂
[9:36] Arria Perreault: bye Keila 🙂
[9:36] Arria Perreault: Pat, can you say some words about Town Halls? We had already two
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: sure
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *giggles*
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll look to solomon to fill in on some of the details
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: we had a good discussion at last week’s meeting about commerce in the CDS
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *thinks of rhyming slang*
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: we talked about having a kiosk/business board in each sim to advertise businesses
[9:37] Mikelo Serevi: Kindly don’t disrupt, stui
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: and solomon has called meetings to revive the CDS Traders’ Association to get business input into these ideas
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all from me on the last meeting 🙂
[9:38] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pat
[9:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo – I am constantly reminded of the need for humour at these proceedings 🙂
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[9:39] Arria Perreault: I think the Town Halls a re a good experienc
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if the LRA permits I shall be amusing
[9:39] Arria Perreault: we can move to new items
[9:39] Arias Ahren: Yes: A good laugh every now and then would be wonderful.
[9:39] Solomon Mosely: and not a bailiff…
[9:40] Arria Perreault: a. Compatibility between the position of caretaker and RA membership
[9:40] Arria Perreault: I give the word to our Chancellor, as it is a request from her
[9:40] Arria Perreault: Sonja, you have the floor
[9:41] Sonja Strom: Honourable Members of the RA…
[9:41] Sonja Strom: for the past couple of years Lilith Ivory and I have been the Caretakers in the CDS.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: This is a position reporting to the Executive Branch,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: that is the Chancellor.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: As I am now Chancellor I will still be doing the duties of this role of Caretaker,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: but will not actually have that position,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: as a civil servant.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Now Lilith has become a member of the Representative Assembly.
[9:44] Carolyn Saarinen: Can an elected official also hold a appointed post?
[9:44] Sonja Strom: Both she and I would like for her to continue in her role of Caretaker,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: but we are bringing this as a request to the RA, that she have allowance from the RA to be in both roles –
[9:44] Patroklus Murakami: what does the role of Caretaker involve?
[9:44] Sonja Strom: RA Member and Caretaker.
[9:44] Sonja Strom: I see no reason not to allow someone to be both a caretaker and a RA member
[9:45] Sonja Strom: as the Caretaker makes no decisions about anything.
[9:45] Sonja Strom: The Caretaker simply removes litter on public land,
[9:45] Sonja Strom: notifies private land owners if it seems like litter might be on their land,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: and helps the Chancellor to keep the community good looking and working well.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Lilith has been a wonderful Caretaker up to now,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: and it is my hope and request that the RA will support her continuing to be.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[9:47] Mikelo Serevi: It doesn’t sound like a conflict of interest
[9:47] Pip Torok: Like Sonja, I see no conflict
[9:47] Mikelo Serevi: I move to allow the dual roles for Sonja and Lilith
[9:47] Patroklus Murakami: i can’t really see a problem with this
[9:47] Carolyn Saarinen: It ain’t broke, why fix it?
[9:47] Pip Torok: second
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. This is a tricky one. In fact, I’d say it’s something for the SC to untangle. You see, the issue is that RA members ought not to be civil servants 😉
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll hush and abstain on the legalities… hehe
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: umm
[9:48] Arria Perreault: we have to vote now
[9:48] Pip Torok: please yes
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: ell, legalities ae what this RA is for, right?
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: do ewe arria?
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: gwen,
[9:48] Arria Perreault: the SC can veto our decision
[9:48] Pip Torok: aye
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: we’re in a vote. i vote aye
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Arria.
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: what conflict is there for those of us that dont know it?
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains
[9:49] Arias Ahren: Aye
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: ahh… of course, the sc
[9:49] Lilith Ivory: abstains
[9:49] Gelf Yalin: well, I think we have to be realistic that we dont have a community of thousands…so people are going to sometimes have to do duel roles if things are to work…even in in RL it probably wouldnt be allowed
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: the sc
[9:49] Gelf Yalin: aye
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: is wnyone here on the sc?
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: anyone*
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: as I said, ‘ain’t broke’ vote aye.
[9:50] Arria Perreault: we are still voting
[9:50] Solomon Mosely: anyone?
[9:50] Sylvia Tinkel: if it’s illegal the vote wouldn’t count though
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: solomon, perhaps you could follow up with gwyn after the meeting?
[9:50] Sylvia Tinkel: whether it’s aye or not
[9:50] Solomon Mosely: and i am still asking about who here is on the sc
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[9:50] Solomon Mosely: sure
[9:50] Solomon Mosely: we’ll deal with legal formalities after the legal formalities
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t think there is an SC present
[9:51] Arria Perreault: other votes?
[9:51] Sylvia Tinkel: Gwyneth as former Dean and longest standing member would have the best insight into the possible illegality
[9:51] Solomon Mosely: none that matter for 5 more months
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Who is left to vote?
[9:51] Arria Perreault: Stui, Timo, Imotali and I
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, thanks, Sylvia, but my opinion as “former Dean” doesn’t matter much lol
[9:52] Timo Gufler: aye
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: I’m sure we all value your opinion, gwyn, and don’t intend to step on any toes
[9:53] Solomon Mosely: thanks mike
[9:53] Arria Perreault: we have 6 aye, 2 abstains until now (so motion carries)
[9:53] Arria Perreault: I vote aye
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[9:54] Imotali Antiesse: i vote aye, for now
[9:55] Mikelo Serevi: If it turns out this vote was inappropriate somehow, I’m sure we can roll it back, or be overridden by the SC
[9:55] Arria Perreault: thank you, I have casted all votes
[9:55] Arria Perreault: 9 aye and 2 abstains
[9:56] Solomon Mosely: good point, the sc
[9:56] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[9:56] Solomon Mosely: when was thier last bi-weeklymeeting?
[9:56] Lilith Ivory: if it turns out to be illegal I´m willing to step back from tht office any time
[9:56] Solomon Mosely: perhaps the reformation of the sc would be in order
[9:56] Arria Perreault: The RA doesn’t see any problem if one RA member is caretaker. The SC can take an other decision of course
[9:57] Solomon Mosely: what sc?
[9:57] Mikelo Serevi: It doesn’t strike me that cleaning up will lead to corruption, but one never knows
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Solomon!!!!
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[9:57] Solomon Mosely: thanks mike
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[9:57] Pip Torok tries to stop guffaw
[9:57] Arria Perreault: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[9:58] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[9:58] Solomon Mosely: sorry, i just dont see any posts from them since the election announcements
[9:58] Arria Perreault: The portal has a lot of information, including a description of the Scientific Council
[9:58] Sylvia Tinkel: they don’t have to post to exist
[9:58] Solomon Mosely: and if they are the gaurdians of cds law, maybe we need tehm to be active
[9:58] Sylvia Tinkel: or meet
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: solomon, perhaps you could follow up with an SC member after this meeting?
[9:59] Solomon Mosely: but they have to post their meetings
[9:59] Solomon Mosely: well, i bring it up now, beacusae
[9:59] Solomon Mosely: who do they answer to?
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn polishes the old Impeachment Wand, “Mmmh… still working, goodie”
[9:59] Sylvia Tinkel: no one
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sylvia! 🙂
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:59] Arria Perreault: members of SC: Aliasi Stonebender as Dean, Delia Lake, Claude Desmoulins, Danton Sideways and Dnate Mars
[9:59] Sylvia Tinkel: 🙂
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noooo they answer to the RA 🙂
[9:59] Sylvia Tinkel: it’s a good thing
[9:59] Sylvia Tinkel: sorry
[9:59] Sylvia Tinkel: will stop interrupting if Solomon does
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: .. in the sense that if they don’t behave, we can impeach them 🙂
[10:00] Arria Perreault: we can move to the next point
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, Arria 🙂
[10:00] Arria Perreault: b. Definition of citizen
[10:00] Arria Perreault: Mikelo has proposed this point to the ageda. I give the floor to him
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: Thank you
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: My main purpose in proposing the point was to open discussion here
[10:01] Mikelo Serevi: See how others feel we should proceed
[10:01] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s a very important task and we should get started if we want to continue merging with AA
[10:01] Solomon Mosely: i thought we already did
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: Well, we have been dealing with other things
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: But this has been a sticking point in the merger
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: could you outline what the major issues are mikelo? why is citizenship a sticking point?
[10:02] Pip Torok: (the trial period of the merger ends n ext June, Solomon)
[10:02] Solomon Mosely: right
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: What I mean is, the definition of a citizen is supposed to come from owning land
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then it’s stick or twist
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: But many own land as part of a group, for example
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: It’s not clear that we should deny them this right
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: But on the other hand, should someone who joins a group of 300 suddenly be eligible to vote?
[10:04] Pip Torok raises hand
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I’d like to hear from others in the RA
[10:04] Arria Perreault: Pip have asked to speak
[10:04] Pip Torok: Madame LRA?
[10:05] Arria Perreault: Pip, you have the floor
[10:05] Arias Ahren: Okay
[10:05] Arias Ahren: I am having a bit of trouble with my internet connection.
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* after Pip
[10:06] Arria Perreault: ok, Gwyn
[10:06] Pip Torok: right … 2 points …. i agree with mikelo as to its crucial importance … and note the suggestion (from Sudane) that it be based on _who _ pays the tier for the land …. and finally respectfully suggest that a workingparty of mikelo Arria Sudane and myself might provide a quick solution
[10:06] Pip Torok: done
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, no one from SEED?
[10:07] Arria Perreault: we have a proposal, but I suggest we continue the discussion before to find a second or vote
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Gwyn has the floor
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees with Mikelo. Also, the notion about “owning land” has been questioned last term (and I changed my opinion after some very good argumentation 🙂 ). Is “owning land” buying a parcel, or paying land fees? The latter seems to be the more logical choice, since the land price fluctuates (as owners set the price, not the Government, after the first sale), while land fees don’t)
[10:08] Pip Torok: wd be glad to have a SEED member in it (speaking personally)
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack, I had pre-typed that but I see I’m pretty much making the same point.
[10:08] Carolyn Saarinen: “But on the other hand, should someone who joins a group of 300 suddenly be eligible to vote?” People who join much smaller groups are entitled to stand for office!
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, I think it’s worth changing the definition of citizenship; and actually I had a proposal for a bill posted on the forums.
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean outside the CDS; Caro?
[10:09] Carolyn Saarinen: No Gwyn I don’t
[10:09] Pip Torok: agree Caro … thats why whoever pays tier .. wd obviate that problem
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder if CDS can really have the luxury of choosing to further limit citizenship when it already struggles to fill posts
[10:10] Carolyn Saarinen: CDS might struggle Stui, AA does not. The same applies to land.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry… “/nod and agrees with Mikelo. Also, the notion about “owning land” has been questioned last term (and I changed my opinion after some very good argumentation 🙂 ). Is “owning land” buying a parcel, or paying land fees? The latter seems to be the more logical choice, since the land price
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to open
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: grr
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then I don’t understood what you meant, Caro 🙂
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And my grammar sucks today… :O
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: Sl does that somehow
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui, the question about group ownership (which, btw, is allowed) is not because we want “more citizens at any price”, but because of enforcement of the laws.
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure i understand the proposal that it’s ‘whoever pays tier’. when does someone become a citizen then?
[10:12] Pip Torok: One point Id like to make in fron of the RA: … that the citizen count be easy to obtain by all parties
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was felt that citizenship ought to be based on something that people value. iRL it’s physical freedom. We can’t limit that in SL, so the second best choice we found was… the purse 🙂
[10:12] Pip Torok: *front
[10:12] Patroklus Murakami: i agree with that pip
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I still think that we don’t have enough citizens to start looking to exclude
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn most heartily agrees with that too, Pip!
[10:12] Carolyn Saarinen: I meant Gwyn that other factions accepted people as potential candidates when they were not land-owners in the the sense of voting qualifications,. I mean that such persons are claiming to hold office in AA when they don’t live there!
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not like we are overrun
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Caro! Sorry…I *see* 🙁
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: you could draw it more widely stui, you could let anyone who joins the CDS and AA groups be a citizen. but would you set any barrier on voting?
[10:13] Pip Torok: Stui … suppose 200 Coptic Christians had suddenly become citizens?
[10:13] Carolyn Saarinen: No AA IS over run, in-so-far as AA land is always full, CDS land remains empty.
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that if you looked at the % of active citizens per group
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you’d find that the number is not probably so high
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui, any change of the citizenship status will have to change the ground, the base of law enforcement. If you find out a valid way to enforce the code of laws without going to people’s purses, please tell us — just because in the past we never figured out a way, it doesn’t mean that there isn’t an alternative!
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am myself member of groups for no other reason than diplomacy with the group founder
[10:15] Gelf Yalin: caro: what do you think is a good way to increase the numbers of people being active in the CDS, what is your proposal as to citizenship?
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I admit that some people pay a higher % of tier for their privileges
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then I also own to knowing that some people couldn’t afford tier
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and yet would want to be active citizens
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what of those people ?
[10:16] Mikelo Serevi: There is only one level of privilege though, citizen
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how do we qualify the enthusiastic ? are they in some way less than the rich ?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we discussed that before, Stui 🙂 Sorry, I don’t buy the argument that someone owns a compuyer and a broadband connection, both able to run SL to be “active citizens”, and cannot afford half a dollar monthly 🙂
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: disposible income is an issue
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: i agree gwyn, no one by that definition is in any way ‘poor’
[10:17] Timo Gufler: good point, Gwyn
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6 dollars per year! That’s what costs to be a citizen in the SL! If you don’t even have that…
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that is the reason for the privations of the recession
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and also
[10:17] Pip Torok agrees with pat and gwyn
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Come *on*, Stui 🙂
[10:17] Carolyn Saarinen: I think that the best way to resolve the AA citizenship issue is to use the WASp Option Gelf!
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seriously 🙂
[10:17] Arria Perreault: I think we have cheap parcels and we can have others
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: it’s one cup of cappucino at starbuck’s a week
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we do have people from really rather poor nations who have access to a PC
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but do not get paid in dollars
[10:18] Gelf Yalin: sorry for my ignorance, what is the WASp option?
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be more than happy to pay them 6 US dollars per annum to have them be citizens 😛
[10:18] Carolyn Saarinen: The WASP option is that AA de-merges from CDS after one year
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: If any such people want to join the CDS, I’d like to hear form them
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we as landed citizens are to be the only voting party
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: or that the CDS votes to end the merger 🙂
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then that is restrictive
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if there is a nominal fee
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s still rather unfair
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as it cannot be qualified as being within the reach of all people
[10:19] Pip Torok: I propose that citizenship be based on the payment of tier and/or Landfees
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s fair enough
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and laws are laws that are fair to all people
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not just the fortunate
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: the point is that people who own land who pay tier have a stake in the community. open access just leads to abuse
[10:20] Gelf Yalin: okay, I just want to follow what is being said….are you stating Stui that you want citizenship to be open to anyone?
[10:20] Mikelo Serevi: well pip, did you want to start the working group?
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s a different question. Basing citizenship on the ability to enforce the code of laws based on payments is just ONE option. As said (and I repeat myself), just because in the past 6 years we didn’t find a better solution, it doesn’t mean there is none. So… in the case of NOT having any kind of fees… what would be the base of enforcement?
[10:20] Arias Ahren: I have a small studio in Aa and a small piece of land next to Caro and Pip. I assume that mekes me eligible for citizenship. Yes?
[10:20] Arria Perreault: Ok. Mikelo wated to open the discussion and I think his goal is reached
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (true, Arria 🙂 )
[10:20] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I know I made a bit of a mess
[10:20] Pip Torok: yes i do want to start the workgroup if Mikelo agrees
[10:20] Solomon Mosely: whas there been a group recently that is trying to have a lrge number of people voting on something?
[10:20] Solomon Mosely: what has sparked this debate?
[10:20] Mikelo Serevi: But I wanted to test the waters
[10:20] Arria Perreault: I thik we have to go further
[10:20] Gelf Yalin: can’t someone who doesn’t have enough money work as a civil servent in the CDS and earn their fees?
[10:21] Arria Perreault: Pip has made a proposal
[10:21] Timo Gufler: if citizenship is free, then it would be very cheap to have an army of alts here…
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Gelf!
[10:21] Arria Perreault: a working group
[10:21] Pip Torok: shall i repeat it?
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what of the time constraints ?
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: quite gelf 🙂
[10:21] Arria Perreault: Pip, do you want to define again your proposal?
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not all people have time regularly ?
[10:21] Pip Torok: I propose that citizenship be based on the payment of tier and/or Landfees
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: hold on pip
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: i thought the proposal was to have a working group?
[10:21] Solomon Mosely: thank you pat
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: I thought we were going to form a working group to consider it further
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Pat
[10:22] Carolyn Saarinen: Oh please. The CDS political hacks don’t want al-Andalus except as a crippled rump on their terms. For AA citizens the best course is to cut CDS loose and let you sink!
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: It’s a huge question
[10:22] Arria Perreault: you did propose a working group first
[10:22] Pip Torok: i repropose
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think i’m ready to change our citizenship rules right now
[10:22] Arria Perreault: yes, do it Pip
[10:22] Pip Torok: I propse that the RA formn a workinggroup on Defining Citizenship
[10:23] Arria Perreault: any second?
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a query of this
[10:23] Mikelo Serevi: second
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Barring all other citizens?
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the names mentioned before
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are they the working group ?
[10:23] Pip Torok: yes
[10:23] Arria Perreault: thank you Mikelo
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or is this a proposal to form a working group ?
[10:23] Pip Torok: yes
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: of undefined names ?
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or of your previous statement Pip?
[10:23] Pip Torok: the names I mentioned before
[10:23] Solomon Mosely: caro, the RA may represent the politically ambitious among us, but not necessarily the people’s wishes
[10:23] Gelf Yalin: so is Caro the only one who doesn’t want things to work between AA and the CDS? Are there others here whose purpose is not to try to make things better for all?
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami assumes the working group will hold open meetings which anyone can attend
[10:24] Pip Torok: yes … assumption is right
[10:24] Mikelo Serevi: The whole point is to serve the people
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would like to know the status of the people mentioned
[10:24] Pip Torok: they are RA members
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: would they be equal to the audience or above?
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with the proposal, but it ought to have a “head” — that’s the person responsible to summarise its results to the RA 🙂
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are they a joint chair ?
[10:25] Pip Torok: I propose Mikelo be the head
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or is there one appointed chair ?
[10:25] Arria Perreault: except Sudane 😉
[10:25] Mikelo Serevi: In the end, the RA will vote on the work group’s proposal, I should think
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I ask this
[10:25] Arria Perreault: Pip, can you rename the members?
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: purely in the interests of my faction
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as we were rather seen as irrelevant
[10:25] Pip Torok: yes Arria Mikelo an Pip Torok
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and while we are invited to join
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have not been asked to be part of this proposal
[10:26] Pip Torok: but you are as part of an open meeting Stu
[10:26] Carolyn Saarinen: Gelf Yalin = “CDS political hacks don’t want al-Andalus except as a crippled rump on their terms.” You don’t know my city. You don’t love my city. You don’t matter to me.
[10:27] Solomon Mosely: yes, why no cal for interested volunteers for the work group?
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why are we proposing a group
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with one as chair
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: the meetings will be open to all for crying out loud
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Not with a voice
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with specific names put forward ?
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: turn up, participate, get on with it!
[10:27] Mikelo Serevi: It’s too much work for an RA meeting, I think, that’s why stui
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Just as a yammering crowd
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what is the special qualification of these nominees Pip ?
[10:28] Gelf Yalin: I am not arguing with you Caro, I am just expressing concern
[10:28] Arria Perreault: The proposal is a working group with Arria Mikelo and Pip whose goal is to bring to the RA a proposal about CDS citizenship
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why have any more than a chair ?
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you only need a chair to sit the meeting
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it is so disadvantageous to have a position over and above the common audience
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless it is for the prestige of course
[10:29] Pip Torok: arria is concer ned … mikelo put the mortion .. and i in the dpu regard it as high-priority
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and then I shall say we should produce badges
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Pip
[10:29] Gelf Yalin: I would like CDS and AA to try to at least give this the best chance possible to work together and make the best thing possible….if it doesn’t work out fine but shouldn’t we at least give it our best shot?
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are Seed not concerned ?
[10:29] Solomon Mosely: stui, if you want in, jut ask to be a part of the work group
[10:29] Mikelo Serevi: Shall we invite a seed member to join the working group, pip?
[10:29] Solomon Mosely: nice of you mike
[10:29] Gelf Yalin: Caro: if you think there is a way for CDS to improve citizenship please let us know
[10:29] Gelf Yalin: I really truly do want to know
[10:30] Pip Torok: yes … will someone in SEED* come forward?
[10:30] Mikelo Serevi: I personally am concerned that stui will have us splitting hairs
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: depending on availability
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will be there
[10:30] Mikelo Serevi: Lilith, are you interested?
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but not as less than I am now
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Mikelo
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am an RA member just as you are
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn quotes the RA Meeting Procedures (http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281): on point 5: “Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions.” So, yes, we ought to have a SEED* member in it.
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a right to involvement
[10:30] Lilith Ivory: I´d second Stui as a member of that work group as he knows more about AA
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with or without your mandate
[10:31] Imotali Antiesse: Since there concern with merger, yes an AA member should chair too.
[10:31] Arria Perreault: now we have a representant from each faction and a head
[10:31] Lilith Ivory: at least one citizen of Al Andalus should be part of that work group
[10:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I respectfully ask that you do not further undermine my integrity or suitability for office
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
[10:32] Arria Perreault: can we vote about the workgroup now?
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: respectfully, stui, often it feels like you are mocking these proceedings
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t appreciate it
[10:32] Timo Gufler: yes, please
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you say so Mikelo
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it can be so easily mocked
[10:32] Pip Torok: My proposal: that Mikelo, Arria, Stui and myself form a workingpartgy on Citizen definition which is open to CDS residents
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s fragile indeed
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: second
[10:32] Arria Perreault: members: Mikelo (head), Stui, Pip, Arria
[10:32] Arria Perreault: we vote now
[10:32] Pip Torok: aye
[10:32] Gelf Yalin: aye
[10:32] Arria Perreault: RA members who agree, pay say aye
[10:32] Timo Gufler: aye
[10:33] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[10:33] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a question
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: pls wait til after the vote tor 🙂
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: afk
[10:34] Arria Perreault: Caro, Stui?
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: could I as a cat and curious
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the group should report on how this change will affect voiting registration. Would that be possible?
[10:35] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, that’s the whole point
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry I was gonna ask LRA if it were possible to hear Tor’s question
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: before voting
[10:35] Arria Perreault: other votes?
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Aye
[10:35] Pip Torok: well … it wd provide the BASIS for giving citizens a ready-reference of who is a citizen and how many there are
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: No, it should report on where there have been problems and how various sims will loose voting residents.
[10:36] Arria Perreault: Caro?
[10:36] Arria Perreault: I vote aye
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like a percentage board of CDS sims Tor ?
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to show the losses
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that seems fair
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: why would sims lose voting residents tor?
[10:37] Arria Perreault: we have 10 aye, motion carries
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s transparent
[10:37] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure we have existing numbers
[10:37] Arria Perreault: Mikelo, we wait for your invitation
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Well there seems to be a problem with members of groups voiting
[10:37] Mikelo Serevi: since we have no real definition
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I suppose I can see why it would be an issue
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: for this to be a valid issue there must have been some abuses
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the wasp clause
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if AA lost most of it’s votes
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or CDS
[10:37] Solomon Mosely: thats what i was wondering tor
[10:37] Arria Perreault: We are finished with this point
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: or there is a practice in some sims to allow non landed people to be citizens.
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then how could the wasp clause be effectively voted through fairly ?
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: Thanks Arria
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: good grief. is that what ppl think this is for? to deny AA citizens votes?
[10:38] Pip Torok: not that i know of, Tor
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it would rather have to be done under the old rules to be fair
[10:38] Solomon Mosely: thanks mike
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat
[10:38] Arria Perreault: you can continue this discussion after the meeting or in a next meeting
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: rather as I said
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the issue would be on both sides
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I think for you all to make a valid judgement you should know how this will affect the number of those voiting.
[10:38] Arria Perreault: in a next Town Hall (sorry)
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: CDS could lose voting citizens
[10:38] Arria Perreault: next point
[10:38] Solomon Mosely: thats a real good point tor
[10:39] Arria Perreault: c. Order of the RA Agenda
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we don’t have non-voting citizens; all citizens are voting citizens, or they aren’t citizens at all 😉 )
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP is this me ?
[10:39] Arria Perreault: Stui, you have asked to add a point about the RA Agenda Order during the last meeting
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes that’s true
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: c’est vrai
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[10:39] Arria Perreault: we have voted to postponed this point today
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: c’est vraiment vrai !
[10:40] Arria Perreault: je sais 🙂
[10:40] Solomon Mosely: then deciding who’s a citizen decides who votes
[10:40] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Solomon)
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (that was a slogan on a ad in paris)
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I just wondered if we could move citizens concerns to the start of the meeting before approving the agenda
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they voted us here
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they get heard last
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and well how can we approve an agenda that hasn’t been approved by all at the meeting
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: even if we are seen to represent
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it sseems to me that the citizens concerns relate directly to the course of the meeting
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as their experiences may colour our votes
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and affect the priorities of the meeting
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: c’est fini
[10:42] Solomon Mosely: wow stu
[10:42] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:43] Arria Perreault: I would like to reminder again the rules of the RA
[10:43] Solomon Mosely: that sounds pretty good
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I like this idea 🙂
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: My only concern is a practical one of time
[10:43] Arria Perreault: they give a a lot of possibilities to citizen to make proposals
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We set a time limit!
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[10:43] Arria Perreault: 3. Citizen input
Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the “legislative discussion” forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda.
It is suggested that that member be chosen by the submitter as a supporter of the substance of the bill. Posting the content of the bill on the forum is also strongly suggested, so that public opinion can be gathered. It is highly suggested that the bill contain two parts:
(1) A summary of what is proposed, and
(2) a detailed statement of the proposed action and its implications.
The members AND the public need to know the issues on what will be a wide variety of matters, and those persons must not be assumed to have a complete understanding of the issues. I.E. The bill should be an educational document. Please!
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can also move to table certain issues
[10:44] Arria Perreault: Pat, you have asked to speak
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they are non priority that shouldn’t be an issue as such
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so long as people are heard
[10:44] Arria Perreault: yu have the floor
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the issues are out there
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: i disagree with this proposal. i don’t think it makes sense
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: we have a job of work to do here which is why our meetings have a certain formality and their structure
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: our role is to pass laws and conduct long-term planning
[10:45] Soro Dagostino: ROTFLMAO
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: most of our time should be spent doing those things
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: so, if there is legislation to be considered, that should come first
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and if the concerns related to that legislation ?
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: as arria has posted, *none* of that prevents citizens concerns being heard
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we missed a detail on account of the order of the meeting
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are the smaller number
[10:46] Pip Torok agrees with Pat on this point
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: citizens are able to participate in the discussion on those itmes
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: pls don’t interrup stui 🙂
[10:46] Timo Gufler: and the citizen can talk with the representatives they trust
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: in addition, we have our town hall meetings which are much more informal and allow for even more citizen input
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: and which have already borne fruit with their own proposals
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: so i see this idea of changing the order of our agenda as unnecessary
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all for now 🙂
[10:47] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pat
[10:47] Solomon Mosely: wait, how does reshuffling a timed, existing agenda item deract from the ability of the RA to function in a meeting?
[10:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP can I respond ?
[10:48] Arria Perreault: other opinions?
[10:48] Mikelo Serevi: I agree with pat
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: first things first solomon 🙂
[10:48] Solomon Mosely: thanks mike
[10:48] Arria Perreault: non RA members are not supposed to talk now
[10:48] Solomon Mosely: right, and as you said
[10:48] Solomon Mosely: lol, oh, my bad
[10:49] Solomon Mosely: i thought you had said something about serving the people
[10:49] Solomon Mosely: lol, you didnt
[10:49] Solomon Mosely: anyway
[10:49] Arria Perreault: there are many possibilities for citizen to bring concern to the RA
[10:49] Solomon Mosely: if there is a timed agenda, it could serve to inform that days voting for RA to hear public opinion on that days agenda
[10:49] Solomon Mosely: before* they vote
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The agenda is posted in advance, Solomon… is that your concern?
[10:50] Solomon Mosely: well thas great
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “but…”?
[10:50] Solomon Mosely: then they can come to the meeting prepared
[10:50] Solomon Mosely: like RA can
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the whole point, yes…
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and be heard last
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or not at all like last week
[10:50] Solomon Mosely: great, then the people can speak to the agenda items, publicly, before the voting
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: … or not at all 🙁
[10:50] Patroklus Murakami: if citizens concerns need legislation, they should be turned into bills so the RA can consider them
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as suits the RA
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But they can always do that, Solomon…
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if expediency is required
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: At the very beginning of the session, the LRA *specifically* asks the audience if they wish to register themselves to speak on any of the agenda items.
[10:51] Solomon Mosely: i’m sorry, i thought stui was speaking about moving the official public speaking time towards the top of the agenda
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I propose that we fit a fire exit in here so that the more eager to leave RA members can do so more rapidly than a TP
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understood that the “free-for-all” period (e.g. “any other business” from the citizens) would be pushed at the top of the agenda…
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as per last meeting
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m not against that idea, as long as it has a time limit 🙂
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was my proposal GL
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: putting ‘any other business’ at the start of the meeting makes no sense 🙂
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… I’m not against it 🙂
[10:52] Solomon Mosely: good point gwen
[10:53] Solomon Mosely: i see your point
[10:53] Lilith Ivory: I agree and if we need more time we can put it on next aganda
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t mind it having a time limit
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, but it might be interesting to experiment…
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: speaking of time limits, did you make the proposal, stui?
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people often comment upon my flexibility
[10:53] Arria Perreault: without a time limit, it is not possible
[10:53] Lilith Ivory: normally we don´t have much citizens concerns anyway
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it comes from being supernaturally thin
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[10:54] Pip Torok: is the RA an experimental Lab Gwyn?
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww Pip. You know that’s not what I meant…
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: depends on what rats you can get in Pip
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft 🙂
[10:54] Pip Torok: 🙂
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I saw one by the bin at work
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I almost soiled myself
[10:54] Mikelo Serevi: I’d be more willing to consider this if I didn’t feel it was intended to stall the RA
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (that’ll be the first time that was mentioned at RA)
[10:55] Mikelo Serevi: I wonder why anyone would want to hamper the RA?
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that it’s integral to the accurate and just voting
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I really think that if a lot of citizens really believe that teh RA ought to change the procedure of the meeting to better serve the citizen’s wishes… how can I possibly be against that idea? 🙂 if we find out after a while that it doesn’t work out, we can always change it again.
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you vote before facts are found
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you lose the merit of the result
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, stui has had 15 minutes
[10:56] Pip Torok: very true imho, Gwyn!
[10:56] Patroklus Murakami: citizens can contribute at any time. this is just a populist stunt. that’s why it should be opposed
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pat 🙂
[10:56] Kaseido Quandry raises an eyebrow
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or pat it’s the fairest approach
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it stops us as being seen to be arrogant
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or dismissive of people’s views
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they voted us here
[10:56] Arria Perreault: I suggest that this poitnt “concerns of citizen” has a time limit of 15 minutes
[10:57] Gelf Yalin: motion to end discussion on this and actually vote on something
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the least we can do is listen to them
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Arria’s suggestion
[10:57] Solomon Mosely: lol, i had a call and just read up
[10:57] Pip Torok: second
[10:57] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:57] Solomon Mosely: yes, this whole pixleated “nation” thing is an experiment!
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: we have just opened up extra time for citizens concerns, this is unnecessary
[10:57] Arria Perreault: we vote n this point
[10:57] Pip Torok: aye
[10:57] Timo Gufler: aye
[10:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure, aye
[10:57] Arria Perreault: RA members please vote on the amendment
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:57] Gelf Yalin: aye
[10:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP can you clarify what it is I am voting on
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: yes, what is the proposal?
[10:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: please ?
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Being voted upon: “I suggest that this poitnt “concerns of citizen” has a time limit of 15 minutes.”
[10:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t work out if I’m voting to end discussion
[10:58] Arria Perreault: we are amendng your proposal by setting a time limit of 15 minutes
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: wait, did you all just turn a discussion raised to bring citizen concerns to the top of RA meetings into a vote that limited the time of citizen comments?
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: but not the meeting order?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: later we can vote on your proposal
[10:59] Lilith Ivory: imao at the beginning ot the session
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hush, Solomon 🙂
[10:59] Lilith Ivory: right?
[10:59] Arria Perreault: not yet on the order of the agenda
[10:59] Mikelo Serevi: then aye
[10:59] Lilith Ivory: sigh
[10:59] Solomon Mosely: FAAHHHHH!!!!
[10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so it’s just for the 15 mins
[10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ?
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or are we voting to amend the order too ?
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or is that a subsequent vote ?
[11:00] Mikelo Serevi: Unfortunately, we have problems with disruptions and stalling
[11:00] Arria Perreault: if the amendment is voted, yes
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (sorry it’s been a tough week)
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry I just wanted to be clear
[11:00] Arria Perreault: Imotali and Caro?
[11:00] Imotali Antiesse: 15 mins is reasonable, aye
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I spend so many days getting up at the crack of dawn
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I vote aye
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so many late nights
[11:00] Mikelo Serevi: If these things stop, we can loosen things up 😉
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[11:01] Patroklus Murakami: did we lose caro?
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh that was unanimous…
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: think so 🙁
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah…
[11:01] Solomon Mosely: ha, no wonder CDS and AA is losing residents over this horse shit
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: caro has been gone for a long time
[11:01] Sonja Strom: Solomon!
[11:01] Arria Perreault: so your proposal has been modified with a time limit of 15 min
[11:02] Solomon Mosely: they see the CDS old boys club and get sick
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so we can vote on the precise point on the agenda that this will be?
[11:02] Lilith Ivory: didn´t we have a time limit anyway?
[11:02] Solomon Mosely: Sonja!
[11:02] Gelf Yalin: this is my first time serving and there are many women here…so how is it “old boys?”
[11:02] Pip Torok: lol
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[11:03] Arria Perreault: concerns of citizen at the begining of the agenda
[11:03] Lilith Ivory: you never know in SL 😉
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haaha
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, true, Lilith 😉 😉
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: ahhhaaa
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: thats funny lil
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder if I am grouped with teh old boys
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: It’s odd anyone thinks we’re a good old boys club, I wonder where they get the idea?
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d sooner be a young tart than an old boy
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: could we allow the LRA to conduct the vote? and be quiet pls?
[11:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not to say that women who are young are tarts
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: lol stui
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: thanks mike
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but it rather seems to form a better contrast than prim young lady
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway— yes, let’s proceed with the vote to change the order of the agenda
[11:04] Arria Perreault: so the proposal is now “concerns of citizen at the begining of the RA agenda with a time limit of 15 min”
[11:04] Pip Torok: second
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I propose or second it 🙂
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or vote
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: depending on need
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[11:04] Arria Perreault: you have a second, Stui
[11:04] Arria Perreault: we vote
[11:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m enthusiastic
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:05] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[11:05] Pip Torok: aye
[11:05] Timo Gufler: aye
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[11:05] Arria Perreault: Imotali, Caro?
[11:06] Arria Perreault: I vote nay
[11:06] Arria Perreault: motions carries
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: gelf?
[11:06] Gelf Yalin: aye
[11:06] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, the fun bit is that RA members are citizens too, so they can use thise 15 minutes too 😉
[11:07] Arria Perreault: 7 aye, 3 nay, one missing vote
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles* @ the loophole
[11:07] Solomon Mosely: wow, mike voted and i never saw arias lips move
[11:07] Solomon Mosely: they’re getting better
[11:08] Arria Perreault: I will adapt the next meeting agenda and inform citizen of this
[11:08] Arria Perreault: there was no concerns
[11:08] Arria Perreault: can we move to adjourn?
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure, I’ll second that 😀
[11:08] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:08] Timo Gufler: aye
[11:08] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[11:09] Gelf Yalin: aye
[11:09] Arria Perreault: We are adjourned. thank you for this meeting

Permalink.

RA Meeting 21 March 2010

Agenda

I. Concerns of Citizens

II. ADMIN
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING(-)
–

IV. NEW ITEMS

a. 7 day vote
b. Sacromonte project
c. Budget
d. Portal Workgroup (new chair)
e. First report from the CDS Citizen Definition Workgroup

V. Concerns of RA Members

VI. Adjournment
Transcript

[9:03] Arria Perreault: cn we start?
[9:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I might need it to keep the people awake
[9:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patti !
[9:03] Patroklus Murakami: are we quorate? i think we are
[9:03] Arria Perreault: Hi Imotali
[9:04] Arria Perreault: yes, we have a quorum
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Imotali
[9:04] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Arria
[9:04] Imotali Antiesse: Tor
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Fances, Jeroma
[9:04] Frances Ying: hello
[9:04] Arria Perreault: Welcome to everybody
[9:04] Jeroma Wycliffe: Hi all
[9:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hello all 🙂
[9:04] Arria Perreault: I open the meeting
[9:04] Arria Perreault: you have the agenda in the amphora
[9:04] Arria Perreault: and the recorder is on
[9:04] CDS Official Amphora owned by Arria Perreault gave you ‘RA Agenda 21th March’ ( slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/15/165/42 ).
[9:05] Arria Perreault: we start this meeting with the new agenda
[9:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a concern
[9:05] Arria Perreault: concerns of citizen are now at the beginning
[9:05] Arria Perreault: who want to speak?
[9:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: hurrah !
[9:05] Tor Karlsvalt: i do
[9:05] Arria Perreault: Tor first
[9:06] Arria Perreault: any other person?
[9:06] Arria Perreault: Tor, you have the floor
[9:06] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:06] Tor Karlsvalt: only concern is that we need to establish a date to remove the snow from CN and AA and NFS
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we have passed two dates already
[9:07] Sonja Strom raises hand
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: it was my understanding that the date was 3/01
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: then 3/20
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: thats all.
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Sonja?
[9:08] Sonja Strom: I can speak to this.
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: welcome Calli
[9:08] Sonja Strom: So far as I know the date for the melting of the snow has always been the 21st of March,
[9:08] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Stui
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s citizens concerns at the moment
[9:08] Sonja Strom: which is today
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening Gelf
[9:08] Arria Perreault: Hi Gelf
[9:09] Sonja Strom: yesterday we had a gathering to begin replacing the plants that had snow on them,
[9:09] Sonja Strom: with a party afterward.
[9:09] Gelf Yalin: hi all
[9:09] Sonja Strom: It was fun and went well,
[9:09] Pip Torok: hi Gelf
[9:09] Sonja Strom: and now there are no more plants with snow on them on public land,
[9:09] Sonja Strom: so far as I know.
[9:10] Sonja Strom: The snow is melting right now on Neufreistadt,
[9:10] Sonja Strom: and will be in the other sims after that, completed by the end of today.
[9:10] Sonja Strom: Thanks
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arias and Calli you can take a seat you know… we don’t charge yet
[9:10] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[9:10] Arria Perreault: any other concerns from citizen?
[9:11] Callipygian Christensen: I’d wrinkle mah skirt Stui 🙂
[9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we should have an iron
[9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: welcome Sol
[9:11] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sol 🙂
[9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: take a seat
[9:11] Arria Perreault: who want to speak?
[9:11] Solomon Mosely: hey lil 🙂
[9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s Citizens concerns at the moment
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: hi stu 🙂
[9:12] Arria Perreault: yes, CDS citizen take talk
[9:12] Arias Ahren: Stu
[9:12] Arias Ahren: Cant seem to sit today
[9:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arias
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: arias is concerned about the seating
[9:13] Arria Perreault: this point of the agenda has a time limit of 15 minutes
[9:13] Arias Ahren: Hi
[9:13] Mikelo Serevi: have the pose balls rezzed for you, arias?
[9:13] Tor Karlsvalt: is your AO on Arias
[9:14] Arias Ahren: I am sorry my seating functions dont seem to
[9:14] Arria Perreault: if noboby want to talk, I suggest we move to the next point
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Sorry for the interruption
[9:14] Timo Gufler agrees with Arria
[9:15] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[9:15] Arria Perreault: so we move to the administrative part
[9:15] Arria Perreault: 1. Get agreements to record session.
[9:15] Arria Perreault: I think it’s ok
[9:16] Arria Perreault: b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[9:16] Arria Perreault: do the RA members agree with the agenda?
[9:16] Lilith Ivory: do we have all info we need to talk propperly about sacromonte?
[9:16] Pip Torok: yes
[9:17] Mikelo Serevi: the agenda seems fine to me 🙂
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: did anyone get in touch with Satir ?
[9:17] Gelf Yalin: yes
[9:17] Arria Perreault: Lilith, if we consider we don’t have, we can postpone the topic
[9:17] Patroklus Murakami: i think we can begin the discussion lilith. yes to agenda
[9:17] Imotali Antiesse: yes
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: yes than
[9:18] Arria Perreault: can we go with this agenda?
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: GL is here
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Stui!
[9:19] Arria Perreault: if there is no opposition, I suggest we keep it so
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyn
[9:19] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: GL
[9:19] Pip Torok: hi Gwyn
[9:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: welcome to RA
[9:19] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: do you like my Tee shirt ?
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s Pip’s lips
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s still rzzing
[9:20] Pip Torok: wd like to speak to IVe
[9:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (really it’s Mikelo’s)
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:20] Arria Perreault: does any citizen want to speak during the meeting and for which point?
[9:20] Sonja Strom: Pip, you are an RA member 🙂
[9:20] Frances Ying: i just want to listen, i will not speak
[9:20] Pip Torok: (sorry)
[9:21] Arria Perreault: yes, I ask citizen only
[9:21] Arria Perreault: 🙂
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we scrap this agenda item IIc in future and assume that anyone can speak on any subject
[9:21] Arria Perreault: nobody?
[9:21] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Pat
[9:21] Arias Ahren: I also agree
[9:21] Mikelo Serevi: You’re welcome to listen, Frances, it’s an open meeting
[9:21] Frances Ying: thank you
[9:21] Arria Perreault: any= citizen, Pat
[9:21] Arias Ahren: You never know when something will emerge
[9:21] Mikelo Serevi: Well, was there a reason this item is in place?
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: any = any RA member, any citizen so yes arria 🙂
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s to avoid a shouting match, personally
[9:22] Arria Perreault: and I would suggest they raises their hand first
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: But a rule that people have to raise their hand could work just as well
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: it was used to prioritise time for the RA to speak but it’s not really fulfilling a purpose now
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[9:23] Arria Perreault: do we have a motion telling taht any citizen can talk in any point of the agenda after have asked the LRA?
[9:23] Arias Ahren: I don’t have the ability to raise my hand in my gestures
[9:23] Patroklus Murakami: yes, propose that
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: I second
[9:23] Arria Perreault: a second?
[9:23] Mikelo Serevi: lol arias
[9:23] Pip Torok Arias you can say /me raises hand ….
[9:24] Arias Ahren: Thanks
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: IM me if you wish a gesture for tat (I’ll send you one, Arias!)´
[9:24] Arias Ahren: Okay
[9:24] Arria Perreault: we have a motion and we need a second
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: I seconded already
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we could have flags
[9:24] Mikelo Serevi: the ‘hey’ one might work, too
[9:24] Solomon Mosely: oh gwen, i’ll take one of those 🙂
[9:24] Arria Perreault: sorry
[9:24] Arria Perreault: so let’s vote
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I saw 2 seconds…\
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[9:24] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:24] Pip Torok: aye
[9:24] Timo Gufler: aye
[9:24] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[9:24] Gelf Yalin: aye
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui oui
[9:25] Arias Ahren: Aye
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: LET ME DO IT!!…
[9:25] Arria Perreault: I say aye
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Aye !
[9:25] Arria Perreault: motion caries
[9:26] Arria Perreault: so I will not ask anymore at the beginning of the meeting
[9:26] Arria Perreault: but citizen have to ask firt before to talk
[9:26] Solomon Mosely: oh, is that what that was about?
[9:26] Solomon Mosely: clever
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s a great idea, thanks pat
[9:27] Arria Perreault: I will give the floor to anyone who is asking of course, but I think we should let RA members finish their talk
[9:27] Arria Perreault: we can move to the next point
[9:27] Solomon Mosely: thanks gwen 🙂
[9:27] Arria Perreault: no prior items
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t metion it 🙂
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: can i says something
[9:28] Solomon Mosely: ooOo.. and the adamant hand raise, i like it 🙂
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I thing the 15 minutes at the beginning for citizen concers is still a good idea
[9:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Welcome Dee !
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: In odrder to address things that might not be on the agenda
[9:29] Arria Perreault: (Tor have asked to talk ;-))
[9:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: come sit with me and Tor, you can help him keep his hands to himself
[9:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[9:29] Lilith Ivory: right Tor
[9:29] Solomon Mosely: heh, i think it just got voted down tor 🙂
[9:30] Mikelo Serevi: It seems to have worked out fine
[9:30] Arias Ahren: I agree with Tor
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: no, it didnt’ solomon
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry I already stated my concern
[9:30] Solomon Mosely: oh, cool
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I like the 15 minutes at the beginning
[9:30] Mikelo Serevi: it wasn’t voted down, we just made it so people could speak on any topic
[9:30] Lilith Ivory: imao citizens concerns come first and they are also allowed to talk anytime
[9:30] Arria Perreault: it was the idea of Stui, Tor
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: is is a good time to bring up things that are not on the agenda.
[9:30] Lilith Ivory: after raising hands ,-)
[9:30] Solomon Mosely: [9:26] Arria Perreault: so I will not ask anymore at the beginning of the meeting
[9:31] Solomon Mosely: thats what i thought that meant
[9:31] Solomon Mosely: my bad
[9:31] Arria Perreault: if any citizen express a good idea, a RA member can sponsor it and bring it in the agenda
[9:31] Mikelo Serevi: The change streamlines your method so you don’t have to declare, sol
[9:31] Solomon Mosely: ok, thanks mike
[9:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: “I have nothing to declare, except my genius”
[9:32] Arria Perreault: you have also the possibility to participate to the Town Hall and we can also bring something int he agenda
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 😀
[9:32] Arria Perreault: you can also ask a RA member to bring something here
[9:32] Solomon Mosely: of course
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (I brought cake)
[9:32] Lilith Ivory: I still think listening to citizens concerns at the beginning is a good idea
[9:33] Arria Perreault: please read again our rules of procedures where all possib ilities for citizen to bring something to the RA are described
[9:33] Arria Perreault: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[9:34] Arria Perreault: now we move to the next point
[9:34] Arria Perreault: no prior items
[9:34] Arria Perreault: only new items
[9:34] Arria Perreault: a. 7 day vote
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right!
[9:35] Arria Perreault: in the last meeting, we had a discussion about 7 day votes. DO they have to be approved or not by RA members
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Traditionally, no
[9:35] Arria Perreault: Pat, I think you have looked a bit this question
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[9:35] Pip Torok: point of information: is there not automatic 7-voting for absent RA members?
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: no pip, afraid not
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: This is where an RA member can vote on an issue up to a week after the meeting?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: I give the floor to Pat, first
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: yes mikelo
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But pat is right… although this has been in use since as early as october 2006 (possibly earlier) neither Pat nor I have fund a law or procedure establishing the 7-day vote as a possibility…
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[9:36] Arria Perreault: he will report on this point and then we can discuss
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* sorry!
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: i was asked in a previous meeting where the 7-day vote procedure is in our rules
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: after searching and enlisting gwyn in the search… i couldn’t find it!
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: so, i’m not sure if this was ever a law or part of the rules of procedure
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: or just custom and practice
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: I´d suggest to have the transcropts more early so absente members have a chance to vote
[9:37] Arria Perreault: ok. so we have to fill the gap …
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: but it has been part of RA meetings since at least 2006
[9:37] Timo Gufler: good point, Lilith
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: so, yes, we should fill the gap and make it clear and transparent
[9:37] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:37] Pip Torok: agree
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest amending the RA rules of procedure so that any member who is absent from a meeting can request a 7-day vote if they tell the LRA before the meeting
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I agree also
[9:38] Pip Torok: if thats a motion i second it
[9:38] Arria Perreault: thank you,Pip
[9:38] Timo Gufler: me too
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: apologies for not drafting some text for today but i would hope this would be easy to agree?
[9:38] Arria Perreault: we can vote
[9:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or can we not have 7 days following a vote before the result is declared official
[9:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore allowing retrospective voting
[9:38] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[9:39] Pip Torok: aye
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in view of further reflection and information
[9:39] Arias Ahren: Aye
[9:39] Timo Gufler: aye
[9:39] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:39] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so making the judgement more accurate
[9:39] Gelf Yalin: aye
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: stui, can we come to your point after this vote?
[9:40] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[9:40] Arria Perreault: other votes?
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: doesn’t my point rather offer up an alternative approach ?
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: effectively allowing every RA member 7 days with which to adjust their vote
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: allowing them more time to ponder ?
[9:41] Arria Perreault: Pip, Imotali, Stui, you votes?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: Sounds chaotic to me
[9:41] Solomon Mosely *raises hand*
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it means that they can do more fact finding also
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: you can’t raise that in the middle of a vote stui. it’s motion-second-vote. we can come on to your point after
[9:42] Imotali Antiesse: yes, aye..
[9:42] Arria Perreault: I give the floor only after the vote and Stui will be first in the line
[9:42] Imotali Antiesse: (sorry had a bad connection these days)
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[9:42] Arria Perreault: I vote aye too
[9:43] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[9:43] Arria Perreault: Stui, you have the floor
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: okidoky
[9:43] Arria Perreault: (then citizen)
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well my primary concern over this matter relates to people of busy social lives who may not be at a PC throughout the week or two weeks of the period
[9:44] Lilith Ivory: but what if for some reason a RA member does not know about the meeting?
[9:44] Solomon Mosely: *citizen sol*, i like that 🙂
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they as lil just helped me with
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t know about the meeting
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they lose their vote
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and well
[9:44] Pip Torok: i voted aye ../ hope its in the record
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: also like I said
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we extend voting to the seventh day after the original declaration
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then people can come to a better judgement through looking for information to support their position
[9:46] Pip Torok raises hand
[9:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it would in theory perhaps reduce the pressure to decide in a 2hr period or less
[9:46] Arria Perreault: Pip
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: two minutes really….
[9:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so perhaps reduce the tennis like back and forward arguments that sometimes arise from a lack of broad perspective upon a subject to be decided upon
[9:47] Pip Torok: imo an RA member will eith know regular meeting dates or else take pains to find them out … therefore knowing about it is imho specious …done
[9:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as well as making sure that all RA votes are decided by the whole body
[9:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the part that have declared their interest in voting pre meeting or at meeting
[9:47] Patroklus Murakami: that’s what the forums are for stui. we can discuss issues there too in between meetings
[9:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: also one must consider the shaky connectivity of SL
[9:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have always been sceptical of the forums
[9:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as have many
[9:48] Arria Perreault: there are also the town halls too and the workgroups
[9:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there are
[9:48] Arria Perreault: for important topics, we have a WG
[9:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I don’t see how my proposal harms the process
[9:48] Pip Torok: why are you sceptical when pat has given a perfectly adequate reason for them?
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if anything it enhances the reliability of it
[9:49] Arria Perreault: Stui, I would see you concern in an other way
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because Pip I have seen how they are used 🙂
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it’s not always in the manner of mature adults
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or respectful equals
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami will want to speak against this proposal but wants to hear citizens’ input first
[9:49] Arria Perreault: we could decide that we don’t vote the same day an issue was brought in the RA
[9:49] Pip Torok: but Stui … things misused doesnt make them less useful with their legitimate function
[9:50] Arria Perreault: yes, Soloman have the floor
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it makes them less efficient
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and less respected
[9:50] Arria Perreault: Solomon*
[9:50] Callipygian Christensen coughs
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s like a gossip column sometimes
[9:50] Pip Torok b egs to differ
[9:50] Callipygian Christensen: My hand was raised some time before Solomon’s I believe
[9:50] Arria Perreault: we listen to citizen now, STui
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: naaaaah 😉
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my apologies to Sol
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and also to Calli
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: brb
[9:51] Solomon Mosely: well,, i agree with the proposals purpose jsut voted on, for absent RA mambers
[9:51] Solomon Mosely: np
[9:51] Solomon Mosely: but,
[9:52] Solomon Mosely: i dont quite remember the exact context, but i seem to remember the last time this was brought up, and the reason it was made an issue was,
[9:52] Solomon Mosely: because an RA member, who was present, wanted 7 days to think on and research the issue before voting
[9:52] Solomon Mosely: which the voted proposal didnt address
[9:53] Solomon Mosely: and was in question when it was braought up, if i remember a few weeks ago properly
[9:53] Solomon Mosely: done
[9:53] Arria Perreault: Callipygian
[9:54] Callipygian Christensen: Apparently theere is some question as to whether I am a citizen and have a right to speak
[9:54] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[9:54] Callipygian Christensen: I’ll make my comments then, but accept that they may have no relevance if I am not
[9:54] Lilith Ivory: Hi Caro 🙂
[9:54] Solomon Mosely: oh, sorry, but to pips point, which i agree with, the meetings are scheduled in advance, as are agenda items, but as we all know, things come up in here “un-agendaed” and come to vote sometimes
[9:54] Callipygian Christensen: Could I get an explanation of why the 7 day vote is preferable to proxy voting so that a passed motion IS passed and not defeated retroactively or vice versa?In addition, further research of an item is usually covered by tabling -and with a tabled motion coming up there is a responsibility for an elected person to be present, or assign their proxy when the vote comes up.
[9:54] Arria Perreault: always our rules of procesures ….
[9:55] Gelf Yalin: I would like to Motion that Stui’s proposal be tabled so that we can have time to form a committee to explore the ramifications of this proposal on our constitution as well as the exact perimeters of this proposal. I would also like to see a forum discussion created on this. Obviously it is important for us to all be properly informed of exactly what we would be agreeing to and the best way to do it
[9:55] Arria Perreault: does any RA member want to answer
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: i\m not sure we considered proxy votes….
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well can I say something ?
[9:56] Pip Torok: second Gelf’s motion
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: but the 7-day system has worked well
[9:56] Arria Perreault: we have a motion and we will vote
[9:56] Timo Gufler agrees with Pat
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: prime example is today, GL was late to the meeting and so CAro is yet to TP…
[9:57] Delia Lake raises her hand
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what if the meeting attendee is simply late
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and misses the vote ?
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: does tabled = postpone discussion ? it means different things in the UK and US!
[9:57] Arria Perreault: after the vote, I suggest we answer to Calli or we find a way to give her an answer
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but was intending and expecting to be here ?
[9:57] Arria Perreault: Gelf?
[9:57] Gelf Yalin: yes, tabled=postpone discussion
[9:57] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:57] Arria Perreault: we can vote
[9:58] Lilith Ivory: yea could we please speak so a non lawyer non native speaker can understand also 😉
[9:58] Gelf Yalin: my apoligies
[9:58] Pip Torok: 🙂
[9:58] Arria Perreault: Gelf , explane your motion and then we vote
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn second Lilith 🙂
[9:58] Lilith Ivory: ty 🙂
[9:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Yay for simple language
[9:59] Gelf Yalin: I would like to have a committee be formed to discuss the 7 day rule and possible alternatives such as proxies…then report back to us after having explored the ramifications on our system, constitution, etc. I would also like a forum discussion set up. This way we can explore the best way to do this
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: can we debate gelf’s motion before we vote?
[10:00] Arria Perreault: the motion was seconded
[10:00] Pip Torok: imho “table” a proposition is standard wording in discussions and debates …..
[10:00] Callipygian Christensen: Ime, tabling usually occurs after discussion has made it clear that an informed vote is not possible at that time (I leave this said as I have RL committments to attend to)
[10:00] Gelf Yalin: right, I think an informed vote is not possible at this time
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: imho asking for clarification wasn’t a crime punishable by being made to feel inferior for asking the question
[10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Calli
[10:01] Arria Perreault: ok, we can discuss the motion
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Stui 😉
[10:01] Arria Perreault: Pat, you have the floor
[10:01] Gelf Yalin: I am always happy to explain my language and am sorry if I was not understood
[10:01] Callipygian Christensen: I will look to the transcript for the answer re: proxy voting -thank you all..enjoy your day
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: i am happy with following up on the forums, or inworld, on the idea. but i think a commision is too much!
[10:02] Arria Perreault: Gwyn?
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: i think we could reject stui’s proposal on the grounds that we would further delay decision making
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: well, it does seem a bit excessive for this issue
[10:02] Solomon Mosely: agrees pat
[10:02] Gelf Yalin: raises hand
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: the RA already has a bad rep for taking action
[10:02] Arria Perreault: Gelf
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: so delaying *every* vote for 7 days would make us even less effective
[10:03] Solomon Mosely: it seems fairly straight forward, but perhaps one should call for 7 days to consider 🙂
[10:03] Gelf Yalin: I think that this fundamentally changes how voting works and is an issue that should be explored, along with looking at proxies….as specific lanaguage would have to be written a committee is appropriate
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: i think the points he raises could be dealt with by 1) RA member being active and 2) participating in forum discussions
[10:03] Timo Gufler: delaying vote for 7 days would make it difficult to track what is actually decided
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[10:04] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pat
[10:04] Arria Perreault: Gwyn had also a question
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* 🙂
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think I have already given a few scenarios that confound the present proposal
[10:04] Solomon Mosely: yes timo, especially considering that now RA meets every 14
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or rather, a comment
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or should I say approved procedure
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (do I have the floor, Ms LRA?)
[10:05] Arria Perreault: yes, Gwyn
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
[10:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (I’m just IM’n Caro to inform her what she missed btw)
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat already explained what I wanted to say regarding even more delays… the idea of having in-world meetings is that decisions are made in real time, in a meeting. The 7-day vote is supposed to be an *exception*, not a *rule* for decision-making.
[10:05] Arria Perreault: (I did too)
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, we would have in efefct two votes…
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One in real-time, during the RA meeting,
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: another in 7 days…
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I really don’t like double-voting on issues 🙂
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the proposed commission to discuss proxies for RA members…
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine that this is brought to the RA for voting
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m fundamentally against this idea (sorry, Gelf 🙂 )
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We, RA members, are the elected representatives
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: raises his hand
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you know, some of our citizens are already not comfortable with a representative democracy!
[10:07] Lilith Ivory: I think if a RA member decides he/she has not enough info to vote he/ she should be alowed to ask for 7 day vote
[10:07] Gelf Yalin: raises hand
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would they say if we would allow… reprsenttaion as proxies?
[10:07] Arria Perreault: (ok Tor, I give the floor after Gelf’s answer)
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think my proposal has more than one shape to be fair
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be even a further-removed barrier between citizen’s wishes and what actually gets voted.
[10:08] Arria Perreault: Gelf, can you answer to Gwyn
[10:08] Gelf Yalin: ok
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I think you see my point. Votes in the RA are non-transferable, but individual. Ty.
[10:08] Gelf Yalin: the thing is that I feel that a segment of people here feel like we are always just voting their ideas down
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: done 🙂 (or almost done… I could go on all day hehe )
[10:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I think RA votes should be as transparen as possible, and in the meeting. This will avoid the LRA having to keep all sorts of tallys on the vote during a 7 day period
[10:09] Gelf Yalin: so I thought that rather than do that again I would propose a committee
[10:09] Pip Torok wonders why we make special arrangements for those who won’t read the Forum
[10:09] Gelf Yalin: since Stui and others feel that they are not being listened to
[10:09] Arria Perreault: Ok. we have talked a lot about this topic
[10:09] Gelf Yalin: this would give them the oppostunity to have their ideas fully explored
[10:09] Gelf Yalin: in an orderly way, and then reported back to us
[10:10] Arria Perreault: do we postpone it to the next meeting and create a discussion on the forum?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: gelf proposed to create a commission, if there is a second, we should vote on that motion…
[10:10] Arria Perreault: or do we vote Gelf’s motion?
[10:10] Pip Torok: second
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: yes, we should vote on gelf’s motion first 🙂
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we have a second, we vote 😀
[10:11] Arria Perreault: we had a second for the motion too
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: i vote nay
[10:11] Gelf Yalin: aye
[10:11] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Arria Perreault: we vote on the postpone?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote nay too
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay to the commission, Arria…
[10:11] Timo Gufler: nay
[10:12] Frances Ying: i need to go, thank you everyone
[10:12] Arria Perreault: you vote for Gelf’s motion
[10:12] Imotali Antiesse: abstain
[10:12] Arria Perreault: I cast your votes
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Frances
[10:12] Arias Ahren: Nay
[10:12] Frances Ying: bye
[10:13] Arria Perreault: other votes?
[10:13] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[10:13] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to hear more
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am not so inflexible as to say that I wouldn’t ask for more time to consider (after all it’s key to my point at present)
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, we can continue to discuss 🙂
[10:14] Arria Perreault: other votes?
[10:14] Mikelo Serevi: I think we should
[10:14] Carolyn Saarinen: abstain
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am confused as to what we are voting on
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can someone clarify I was dealing with a couple of things on the trot
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui, we’re voting to create a commission that would study the feasability of having proxies to vote for RA members.
[10:15] Solomon Mosely remembers delia had raised her hand a while back…
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: we are voting on gelf’s motion to postpone debate and create a commission to consider your ideas and the proxy votes issue
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by proxies we mean sit in vote makers ?
[10:15] Arria Perreault: (I know, SOlomon)
[10:15] Gelf Yalin: that and Stui’s idea to have an automatic 7-day
[10:15] Arria Perreault: I want every vote first
[10:15] Gelf Yalin: the commission would explore voting change ideas
[10:16] Arria Perreault: we are not voting on the principle, but on hte commission
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly. On the commission only
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we hear Dee’s point ?
[10:16] Arria Perreault: 4 votes are missing
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami notes that we have been discussing RA procedures for an hour now and hopes we will move on soon….
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh no we can’t she’s crashed *LOL*
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[10:16] Lilith Ivory is waiting for Stuis vote 🙂
[10:17] DeliaLake Beaumont: I came in duplicate as I could tell I was crashing
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was interested to see what Dee would say on account she’s SC
[10:17] Arria Perreault: Timo, did you vote?
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Delia’s duplicate 🙂
[10:17] Imotali Antiesse: Hehe
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I remember Timo voted Nay
[10:17] Timo Gufler: yes, I vote: nay
[10:18] Timo Gufler: voted
[10:18] Arria Perreault: Stui, Lilith, Timo and me
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok I think we are waiting on me reading back (I apologise) I think I understand it now
[10:18] Arria Perreault: ok, ty Timo
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: lillith i think voted nay
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I`m still waiting for Stuis vote
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t see what harm can be of further thinking
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[10:20] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I vote Aye
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we need time to think
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not a clean cut issue
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we can all say that much is true
[10:20] Tor Karlsvalt: mytitle AFK
[10:20] Arria Perreault: 4 aye, 5 nay, 2 abst
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami proposes that we move to the next item on the agenda
[10:21] Mikelo Serevi: well, voting is straightforward really
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: voting is
[10:21] Arria Perreault: any second?
[10:21] Mikelo Serevi: second
[10:21] Pip Torok: second
[10:21] DeliaLake Beaumont raises her hand
[10:21] Arria Perreault: I add to you proposition, Pat, that we open a discussion int he forum
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: fine 🙂
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but anything that means we hand away our votes through lack of planning or incidental restriction would be rather silly
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to consider it as a simple thing
[10:22] Arria Perreault: we cann vote now to postpone the topic to the next meeting
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[10:22] Gelf Yalin: aye
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I register a 7 day vote for next meeting just incase the bus from the hairdressers breaks down ?
[10:22] Pip Torok: aye
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Stui
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: public transport isn’t what it used to be
[10:23] Mikelo Serevi: dammit stui, rofl
[10:23] Timo Gufler: aye
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the drivers don’t even smile
[10:23] Arias Ahren: Aye
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:23] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they try to upend you in a cascade of bags and products and grannies you collect on the way down the aisle
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[10:24] Imotali Antiesse: ok, aye
[10:24] Lilith Ivory is happy never to leave her computer
[10:24] Arria Perreault: Stui,
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: infact let it be said I would like perpetual 7 day votes whether I ask for them or not, as each meeting I might have a chaotic last minute need to not be here but I don’t wish to be muted 🙂
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: mytitle
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[10:24] DeliaLake Beaumont mulls over stui’s comment about “grannies” as being one she doesn’t think badly of them…….
[10:24] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Delia….
[10:25] Arria Perreault: motion carries. I’ll add this topic on th next meeting
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: IV b then? 🙂
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but Dee you’d think badly of me if I was walking down the bus and the driver stomped on the brakes and I took you down the bus as I stumble about 🙂
[10:25] Arria Perreault: who want to write something in the forum
[10:25] Arria Perreault: Gelf?
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not I
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m too honest
[10:25] Pip Torok knows its a great feeling being a grandad/mum
[10:26] Arria Perreault: I will make sure we open a thread
[10:26] Arria Perreault: Delia, I am sorry
[10:26] Arria Perreault: do you wan tot add something?
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’lle be a loose thread
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the backside will fall out of the pants
[10:26] Arria Perreault: or maybe or next meeting 🙂
[10:27] Arria Perreault: so we move to b. Sacromonte project
[10:27] Arria Perreault: This idea comes from the last Town Hall meeting
[10:27] DeliaLake Beaumont: ahemmmmmmmm
[10:27] Arria Perreault: ok, Delia, you can talk
[10:27] Lilith Ivory: is anybody here to give us propper information about the status quo of that Sim?
[10:28] Sonja Strom raises hand
[10:28] Arria Perreault: wait
[10:28] Arria Perreault: first I want to give a chance to Delia to talk because she asked to talk
[10:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: ty. from the perspective of theSC, i would just like to say that absent a legal base for the 7 day vote, and that this has been accustomed procedure for a couple of years
[10:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: it would be a good idea for the RA to adress this issue post haste
[10:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: otherwise you risk challenges to any resolutions passed using that
[10:29] DeliaLake Beaumont: ty
[10:30] Arria Perreault: thank you Delia
[10:31] Mikelo Serevi: what issue? I thought we legitimized the 7-day thing just now
[10:31] Arria Perreault: yes, it was my meaning to
[10:31] DeliaLake Beaumont: if that happened during my crash I apologize
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: we did mikelo. the RA determines its own procedures and has just done so
[10:31] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:31] Arria Perreault: b. Sacromonte project
[10:31] Arria Perreault: let me say some words first
[10:32] Arria Perreault: then RA members
[10:32] Arria Perreault: than citizen
[10:32] Arria Perreault: the begining of the idea was the waiting list for parcels in AA
[10:33] Arria Perreault: the homestead sim of Sacromonte is empty now
[10:33] Arria Perreault: empty means also no fees
[10:34] Arria Perreault: and to give to the people who are waiting for parcels in AA, a development project in Sacromonte could be a good thing
[10:34] Arria Perreault: I may add it could be a challenging project for the whole community
[10:34] Arria Perreault: during the meeting, a lot of ideas were brought about the theme we could develop there
[10:35] Arria Perreault: I open the discussion for RA members
[10:35] Arria Perreault: Lilith you have asked to speak
[10:35] Lilith Ivory: imo it´s empty at the moment but prepaid for 6 or 12 month
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *puts his hand up*
[10:35] Lilith Ivory: as I said I lagg the correct information
[10:36] Carolyn Saarinen: Wasn’t there a plan to use it for a feria project?
[10:36] Lilith Ivory: yes there was I think
[10:36] Pip Torok raises his hand
[10:36] Arria Perreault: Pip
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *dances about with his hand in the air like he needs the toilet*
[10:37] Arria Perreault: (if the fees are prepaid, it gives more time for the project)
[10:37] Pip Torok: o ne point … that the design blends well in with the 2 surrounding sims in regard to path, landscape etc … done
[10:37] Solomon Mosely: oh stu…..
[10:38] Arria Perreault: Stui
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes Sol ?
[10:38] Solomon Mosely shakes his head
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: and to the name of the Sim
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: Stui brought a quite good explanation at the last townhall meeting
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well firstly we need to talk to Satir, she’s got the creative background on AA sim appearence
[10:38] Timo Gufler: When was it decided that Sacromonte would be bought?
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and second
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: before the merger as far as I know
[10:39] Timo Gufler: ok
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: pre wasp vote it’d seem difficult to make anything but a temp resolution to house the waiting list
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: plus
[10:39] Arria Perreault: Patroklus, when Stui is finished
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we’ll have to check on the history of the area in RL on account the name given is unrelated to the era of C13th
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and also we may need to check there was not prior designs for the land
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account it could form a source of discontent with the AA citizens
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: <<<<

Permalink.

RA Meeting 11 April 2010

Agenda

I. Concerns of Citizens

II. ADMIN
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. 7-day votes

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING(-)
a. Budget
b. 7 day vote (permanent 7 day vote)
c. Portal Workgroup (new chair)
d. First report from the CDS Citizen Definition Workgroup
IV. NEW ITEMS

a. Organisation of meetings to discuss the continuation of the merger

V. Concerns of RA Members

VI. Adjournement
Transcript

9:03] Arria Perreault: Hi Yekaterina
[9:03] Arria Perreault: welcome
[9:03] Yekaterina Kalchek: Hello Aria
[9:03] Arria Perreault: Hi Mikelo
[9:03] Mikelo Serevi: hi 🙂
[9:03] Patroklus Murakami: believe me yekaterina, the spectators don’t often remain silent ! 🙂
[9:04] Lilith Ivory smles
[9:04] Arria Perreault: Hi Stui 🙂
[9:04] Imotali Antiesse: and it about to begin – now 🙂 (stui)
[9:04] Arria Perreault: how are you?
[9:04] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[9:04] Pip Torok: no they don’t :-))
[9:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hello I know you all missed me 🙂
[9:04] Yekaterina Kalchek: You have NO idea how silent this girl is going to be, Patroklus
[9:04] Pip Torok: HAHA!
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui!
[9:05] Arria Perreault: Timo cannot attend the meeting
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn belatedly says hi
[9:05] Arria Perreault: we wait for Gelf and Caro
[9:05] Pip Torok: and Gelf cannot attend, Arria
[9:05] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
[9:06] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pip
[9:06] Arria Perreault: and Caro?
[9:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening all 🙂
[9:06] Arria Perreault: we can start the meeting
[9:06] Lilith Ivory looks at Stui
[9:06] Pip Torok: evnin’ all!
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what did I do Lil ?
[9:07] Arria Perreault: I have put the agenda in the ampahora
[9:07] CDS Official Amphora owned by Arria Perreault gave you ‘RA Agenda 11th April’ ( slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/15/165/42 ).
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: do you know anything about Caro?
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: I was not online much lately
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja 🙂
[9:07] notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe she hasn’t realised it’s on ?
[9:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: she didn’t say anything to me
[9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody 🙂
[9:08] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sonja
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Ms Chancellor 🙂
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t sit on AP’s lecturn
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: won’t let me 🙁
[9:08] Arria Perreault: I propose we start
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: try a seat stui 🙂
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll sit on your knee Pat
[9:08] Arria Perreault: The first point on the agenda is I. Concerns of Citizens
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you’ll enjoy that 🙂
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: i’d prefer it if u didn’t 🙂
[9:09] Arria Perreault: time-limit: 15 minutes
[9:09] Arria Perreault: I give the floor to the citizen
[9:09] Arria Perreault: who want to talk?
[9:09] Kaseido Quandry raises a hand
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Kaseido, you have the floor
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: Um, just a quick announcement/request
[9:10] Arria Perreault: (don’t forget the recorder)
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: I’m writing a term paper on political discourse online –
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: and I’d love to interview anyone with experience in government in the CDS, fairly briefly,
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: over the next week or so
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: about a half hour of general questions
[9:11] Kaseido Quandry: so if anyone’s willing, please just IM me, anytime
[9:11] Kaseido Quandry: that’s it, thank you!
[9:11] Arria Perreault: thank you. Very interesting
[9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: welcome Arias 🙂
[9:11] Arria Perreault: we hope to read you 🙂
[9:11] Arria Perreault: Hi Arias
[9:11] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arias
[9:12] Arias Ahren: Hellow everyone.
[9:12] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll have the paper available on my website once I get a grade, and I’ll be happy to supply copies to anyone who wants one
[9:12] Arria Perreault: Who wants to talk?
[9:12] Arria Perreault: we still have some minutes for citizen concerns
[9:13] Arias Ahren: I was under the impression that RA had been cancled
[9:13] Mikelo Serevi: last week for easter
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP I’m just gonna ask the groups if they want to come to RA
[9:13] Arria Perreault: which groups?
[9:13] Arias Ahren: As some of you may know there was some concerns expressed over a post that I made on the boards.
[9:13] Arria Perreault: I have sent two notices
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AA and CDS
[9:13] Arria Perreault: with AA and CDS groups
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: just gonna do a group iM thing
[9:13] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this new viewer is a bit bad for showing new notices etc
[9:14] Arria Perreault: Arias, we have changed the date of the meeting
[9:14] Imotali Antiesse: agree stui
[9:14] Arria Perreault: (yes, Stui, I am back on the old viewer)
[9:14] Arias Ahren: I see
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: don’t worry about the forum nonsense too much arias. feeling’s are running a bit high at the moment (for no really good reason)
[9:15] Arria Perreault: it was Easter and many people had holidays
[9:15] Arias Ahren: Okay Pat
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: take it with a pinch of salt 🙂
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[9:16] Arias Ahren: I am.
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: (i hope that translates into various other languages ok)
[9:16] Arria Perreault: does anyone want to talk
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: anyway having a regional commision meeting would be a good idea 🙂
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 😀
[9:17] Arria Perreault: Stui has sent messages through the groups chats
[9:17] Arias Ahren: I agree.
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: seemingly not
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I suppose we can always ask again at the end of the day
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[9:17] Arria Perreault: Lilith, I have called a meeting for next week. it’s in the forums
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: ah ok 🙂
[9:18] Arria Perreault: if the date is not good, we can change
[9:18] Mikelo Serevi: people can always voice concerns, of course
[9:18] Lilith Ivory: I¬¥ll try to make it 🙂
[9:18] Arria Perreault: good 🙂
[9:18] Arria Perreault: We are talking about the regional committtee of LA and CN
[9:18] Arias Ahren: I don’t know the date Arria, but I will try and attend.
[9:19] Lilith Ivory: friday 16th 3pm
[9:19] Arria Perreault: Friday
[9:19] Arria Perreault: thx Lilith
[9:19] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:19] Arias Ahren: Okay
[9:19] Arria Perreault: Arias, I have visited your museum in LA
[9:19] Arria Perreault: it looks great, very interesting
[9:20] Arria Perreault: (still 5 minutes for citizen concerns)
[9:20] Pip Torok: (note to himself to go see!)
[9:20] Arias Ahren: I had voiced concerns about some things that were on the beach in LA.Some people were upset for my doing so.
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi would like to see the museum too
[9:20] Lilith Ivory: your post was not very polite Arias
[9:21] Arias Ahren: I am working on the real show for the museum
[9:21] Imotali Antiesse: I had dropped by once Arias, looks great.
[9:21] Pip Torok apologises for a couple of towels lying german-like out on the beach
[9:21] Arias Ahren: In the mean time I have done my best to assemble a few things
[9:21] Lilith Ivory: hehehe
[9:21] Arias Ahren: Thank you
[9:21] Arias Ahren: I at the very least wanted to light the place up.
[9:21] Arria Perreault: Hi Jayme
[9:22] Arria Perreault: welcome to the RA meeting
[9:22] Kaseido Quandry: hi Jayme!
[9:22] Jayme Mistwalker: hi
[9:22] Pip Torok: always a good idea, Arias
[9:22] Jayme Mistwalker: sorry rezzing
[9:22] Arria Perreault: we still have 2 minutes, if someone wants to say something
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should just move on? i hope we can keep to two hours today (nice supper being made :))
[9:24] Arria Perreault: if it is not the case, we can move to the next point
[9:24] Arria Perreault: II. ADMIN
[9:24] Arria Perreault: a. Get agreements to record session
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees
[9:24] Pip Torok: agrees
[9:24] Arria Perreault: Next time, i’ll take this point with citizen concerns, as we publish all the transcript
[9:25] Arria Perreault: clic on the recorder
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn touched that too hehe
[9:25] Arria Perreault: then
[9:25] Arria Perreault: b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[9:25] Arria Perreault: The agenda is in the amphora
[9:25] Pip Torok: request move IIIc to after IVa
[9:26] Arria Perreault: Portal Workgroup?
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh Pip 🙂
[9:26] Pip Torok: yes …
[9:26] Arria Perreault: any second?
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: second
[9:26] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:26] Arria Perreault: vote
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is some wisdom in that…. I agree
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:26] Pip Torok: aye
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:26] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:27] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[9:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[9:27] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:27] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[9:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry I was temporarily blinded by fixing an LED miners hat type lamp
[9:28] Arria Perreault: can we move with the amended agenda?
[9:28] Pip Torok: yes …
[9:28] Arria Perreault: good
[9:28] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[9:29] Arria Perreault: in fact, this point should not be there anymore
[9:29] Arria Perreault: sorry
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: aah, thought so 🙂
[9:29] Arria Perreault: d. 7-day votes
[9:29] Mikelo Serevi: np
[9:29] Arria Perreault: Timo has asked for a 7 day vote
[9:29] Pip Torok: err Budget???
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[9:29] Pip Torok: (sorry)
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[9:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we wanted Gordon brown to speak about the budget
[9:30] Pip Torok: lol
[9:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but he’s too busy ruining a country to come
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft lol
[9:30] Pip Torok: the Libdems will love Stui …
[9:30] Arria Perreault: we can move to the next point: ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING
[9:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not after last week
[9:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wrote to a lib dem lord
[9:30] Arria Perreault: a. Budget
[9:31] Arria Perreault: I will give the floor to our Chancellor
[9:31] Arria Perreault: Sonja
[9:32] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor has to report about the budget in the RA
[9:32] Sonja Strom: Our honorable Members of the Representative Assembly,
[9:32] Sonja Strom: I am here to talk with you about the budget for the CDS.
[9:33] Sonja Strom: I can provide information,
[9:33] Sonja Strom: and have some thoughts about it,
[9:33] Sonja Strom: and some suggestions.
[9:33] Sonja Strom: Ultimately it is the community that will decide what it wants to do,
[9:34] Sonja Strom: and as its elected representatives, you are all a part of making these decisions.
[9:34] Sonja Strom: To begin,
[9:34] Sonja Strom: I believe there are 3 major issues for us to discuss.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: One is that the accounting procedures and methods are not standardized across all of the CDS sims.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: The second is how much we want to spend.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: The third is how we want to distribute the spending.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I also have two other smaller issues I would like to talk about,
[9:36] Sonja Strom: which are that some citizens are not paying their tier on time, and how we could try to improve this system,
[9:36] Sonja Strom: and whether or not we could offer Mikelo some payment for his work as RA Archivist.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: So, to begin talking about these topics,
[9:38] Kaseido Quandry waits, eagerly
[9:38] Sonja Strom: I would like to make it clear that arriving at a strong budget is difficult at the moment.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: One reason why is because of differences in tier collection methods
[9:39] Sonja Strom: and accounting methods
[9:39] Sonja Strom: between the original sims of the CDS and the new ones.
[9:40] Sonja Strom: By new ones I mean, of course, Al Andalus.
[9:41] Sonja Strom: Another major difficulty is that this is a slow time in the RL world and the SL world.
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *sings la vie en rose*
[9:42] Sonja Strom: If our expenditures stay the same as they have been up to now, the CDS will be very close to losing money, or actually losing money.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: One thing we can do is to refer to the budget for last term,
[9:42] Patroklus Murakami sits up and takes extra notice
[9:43] Sonja Strom: posted by Jamie here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2575
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Another thing we can do is to refer to the overall financial reports made by Sudane.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: The one for the last month compiled is to be found here:
[9:43] Sonja Strom portal.slcds.info/uploads/media/ … b_2010.pdf
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Isn’t it true that CDS is rich tho ?
[9:43] Kaseido Quandry: oh thank the gods, an actual spreadsheet
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry: TOTAL EQUITY 2218489
______________
[9:44] Sonja Strom: The one to give a current overall financial picture is to be found here: spreadsheets.google.com/pub= … utput=html
[9:44] Sonja Strom: Are you all able to see these?
[9:44] Lilith Ivory: yes
[9:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[9:45] Arias Ahren: Yes
[9:45] Imotali Antiesse: yes, thanks
[9:45] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: what’s the unit of account in the last one? $L or $US?
[9:45] Sonja Strom: good
[9:45] Pip Torok: yes (though difficult to take-in while listening …)
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: (oh I see, nvm)
[9:45] Sonja Strom: In the last one, the unit of account is L$ in thousands.
[9:45] Sonja Strom: ok 🙂
[9:46] Sonja Strom: For example, if we look at that last spreadsheet,
[9:47] Sonja Strom: Last month the CDS net revenue was L$272,000.
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you’re suggesting to simply use last trm’s budget (it was never fully expended btw) I’d be fine with that..
[9:47] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn, we can talk about that 🙂
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure 🙂 sorry to interrupt!
[9:48] Sonja Strom: no problem Gwyn, so far as I am concerned we are in community discussion about this.
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:48] Sonja Strom: L$272,000 sounds good,
[9:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not like we are two brass tacks from bust is it ?
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: 2 million linden reserve, if I’m reading this correctly
[9:49] Sonja Strom: but if we look at the overall financial picture over the last six months,
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I mean sheesh if I tried to stuff all that in my top I’d have a rack like two hindenburgs
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry sprays
[9:49] Sonja Strom: over the last six month period CDS net revenue has been L$-233,000. That is, a loss of L$233,000)
[9:49] Sonja Strom: Per month, I mean…
[9:50] Sonja Strom: For this reason, it is very difficult to make a projected net revenue for operations.
[9:50] Pip Torok: is anyone in this room with a background in accountancy …
[9:50] Kaseido Quandry: is that because the nonprofit sims are billed quarterly?
[9:50] Sonja Strom: Payment into the CDS reserve has normally been 25% of net revenue,
[9:50] Pip Torok: … if so their 2nd opinion wd be useful imho
[9:50] Sonja Strom: but right now we are very close to breaking even or making a loss,
[9:50] Sonja Strom: so payments into the reserve are not really happening.
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is making a loss all that bad if you have significant excess ?
[9:51] Patroklus Murakami is a mathematician and finds this confusing!
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry is a former corporate finance attorney, and can at least read this stuff
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Instead we have been taking money out of the reserve to finance our normal operation expenditures.
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I mean why have such high tier and yet have such a volume of excess lindens ?
[9:52] Pip Torok: sounds a cause for concern to this non-accountant
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve been wondering that, Stui
[9:52] Sonja Strom: So far this term our expenses for executive positions have totaled L$3,000 per month.
[9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you could encourage more people to arrive by cheaper tiers could you not then have more ability and so lower costs of producing things and so forth ?
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: the largest item of discretionary expenditure is events. we could make some economies there
[9:53] Pip Torok: (arrive?)
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Our webportal hosting cost has been USD 10/month, around L$2820 per month.
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: lower tier = less income
[9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat with all due respect
[9:53] Kaseido Quandry: so, cut community services while maintaining officer’s salaries?
[9:54] Kaseido Quandry: I
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what is the benefit of making economy on the most exciting part of the sims ?
[9:54] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve heard that before soemwhere…
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is what draws people in
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: look at Feria
[9:54] Sonja Strom: For events so far this term, including the Inaugural Ball, we have spent L$39,500.
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: we spend peanuts on civil service salaries, tons on events
[9:54] Pip Torok: agree
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because events build community
[9:54] Sonja Strom: More or less this comes to around L$38,000 per month for events.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true… events are more expensive hehe
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the civil servants should to a point do what they do for the love of it
[9:55] Arria Perreault: I suggest we let SOnja explane, then we can comment
[9:55] Sonja Strom: As you are already seeing 🙂
[9:55] Sonja Strom: – One major issue for the community to consider is,
[9:55] Sonja Strom: how much do we want to keep expenditures the same as they have been or reduce them?
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: some of us make a committment to the sims without payment or expectation of monetary benefit
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Sonja, can you explain the variability in amounts due to LL?
[9:56] Sonja Strom: If our expenditures stay the same, our finances will be somewhat unstable,
[9:56] Sonja Strom: but we will be supporting as much as we were before.
[9:56] Sonja Strom: If our expenditures go down we might be less attractive,
[9:57] Sonja Strom: , but our finances will be more stable,
[9:57] Sonja Strom: and ‚Äì at least on a short term basis ‚Äì
[9:57] Sonja Strom: more healthy.
[9:58] Pip Torok raises hand
[9:58] Sonja Strom: It seems to me like it would be good for us to have a conversation about this as the next step in our decision-making.
[9:59] Arria Perreault: Pip
[9:59] Arria Perreault: Pip, you asked to speak
[10:00] Pip Torok: well “needs must ” is the watchword in the UK nowadays … so I suggest we follow Sonja’s suggestion and reduce expenditure in the short term …
[10:00] Pip Torok: done
[10:00] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: makes sense to me
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I suggest that we look at how we spend money
[10:00] Arria Perreault: other comment?
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and do it wisely
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that some of what I heard rather beggars belief
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: especially in view of it’s lack of basis in fairness
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to reduce money used on events would reduce the number of new citizens
[10:01] Arria Perreault: I have looked a bit our legislation. It seems that the RA doesn’t have to vote on the budget
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: our events are the only outreach we have
[10:01] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor has only a duty to report
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and to pay citizens as civil servants
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well there are people doing the jobs we would pay someone to do… well they are doing them for free
[10:02] Pip Torok realises stui’s concern but still of the same opinion
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and are we then to raise all people who commit time to admin
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: up to the level of paid civil servants to make it fair
[10:02] Arria Perreault: in my point of view, it should be a task of the RA to approuve a budget and even some big expenses
[10:02] Kaseido Quandry: how many rental properties are currently available in the CDS, and how many of those are publicly listed for rental? It would seem raising revenues is preferable to cutting services
[10:02] Pip Torok: agree
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or are we to raise the payments to the approved appointed civil servants and further poke in the eye the volunteers ?
[10:03] Sonja Strom: It is also my understanding that there is no requirement for the RA to approve the budget,
[10:03] Sonja Strom: however, I also this is a good time for the RA to be involved in the direction it takes.
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I think the civil servant are not well paid, if we compare with what we pay to artists for events
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I respect the work of the artists, of course
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will say that it’s rather tough for many here to comment
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that I didn’t actually see many at the last event in any great number
[10:04] Arria Perreault: but the civil servants get for a month less than one artist for one concert
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami raises his hand insistently, like he needs the loo!
[10:05] Arria Perreault: Stui, you can find all details of exepnses on the portal
[10:05] Arria Perreault: Pat
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: ty 🙂
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: i agree stui that we should look at all expenditure
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: so 7k a month for salaries needs to be looked at
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: but if 38k a month is being spent on events then, in my opinion, thats too much
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so we put economies on what we have spent
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: we started a budget for evetns as ‘seedcorn’ to get them started
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: but it seems to have spiralled out of control
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to increase another aspect ?
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: this is our citizens money we are spending
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I suggest that to see the value of events
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: and we should make sure we do so in line with their wishes
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: if ppl are happy to spend that much on events, so be it
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: but we shouldn’t assume that
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we should plot a graph of events versus new citizen recruitment
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and see that it will spike with an event
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: and we need to be much more careful in a recession
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: as a low-tax, low-spend socialist (not too many of them around i grant you)
[10:07] Pip Torok: but we havnt the data to draw that graph, Stui … imo thats the core-problem
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: i would prefer to see tier rates lowered than spent on events
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[10:08] Arria Perreault: I have soemthing to say about the financing of event
[10:08] Arria Perreault: I think that CDS should sponsor events and not finance them totally
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I would say that the civil servants would probably only have to use the increase in their salary to pay the exorbitantly high tier here
[10:08] Arria Perreault: except for some official events like the inaugural ball or Oktoberfest
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so what we give in one hand we take away in the other
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: has anyone examined how much revenue has been lost by not listing available properties for rental?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: Stui, Gwyn has explane once that it was the aim of the cicvil servant positions: to help some people to afford their house
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: does it help… or does it give them a house ?
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it doesn’t pay enough for a house
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then that’s one concern I could share
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because if to be a citizen you need to be landed
[10:10] Sonja Strom: Yes, if someone contacts me with an offer to help with things, we can talk about them receiving payment for it,
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as looks to be the case
[10:10] Sonja Strom: and they can use this payment towards their tier.
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: towards….
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I see
[10:11] Arria Perreault: Kaseido, we have to ask for a bit more money in case all plots are not rented
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so even a civil servant would have to personally contribute to be able to be a citizen here
[10:11] Arria Perreault: we also need money for extension projects
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to me that doesn’t offer much incentive still
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I recall bringing up the cost of citizenship on many occasions
[10:12] Sonja Strom: For example, someone could be a civil servant and have all of their tier paid by thier help with the functions of the CDS.
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and being told that it was within the grasp of all
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that if it wasn’t they could be a civil servant to pay for their house
[10:12] Patroklus Murakami wonders why tehe focus is on 7k of expenditure (and not all of those positions are even filled) when 38k is the larger number…..
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Pat
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: good point pat
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: now I learn that they can have to contribute
[10:13] Pip Torok: certainly is …
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Honestly, I love volunteering work, but in my experience, people actually feel better when they get a “comittment” to work… and get paid a small fee
[10:13] Arria Perreault: I think we should work on a legislation about the budget to make sure that the RA can study a budget, make strategic decisions and approuve the budget and all the biggest expenses
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: i agree arria
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: we should develop a more thorough budget process
[10:13] Pip Torok: agee, arria
[10:14] Arria Perreault: I am ready to work on a proposal for a legislation
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think it’s a mistake to cut the events
[10:14] Arria Perreault: with anyone who wants to work with me
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I think that if you ask those who attended feria
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they’d see that to be true
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat did you enjoy feria ?
[10:14] Arria Perreault: Stui, the question is not to cut in the expenses, but to spend strategically and safely
[10:15] Kaseido Quandry wonders why the focus is on cutting expenditures when you’re forgoing revenue opportunities
[10:15] Mikelo Serevi: in my experience, it’s easier to save money than to earn it…
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I wonder why we consider cuts when we are sitting in the black like a fly with it’s ass in the ink well
[10:15] Mikelo Serevi: something many govts seem to forget
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s better to cut back than cut out. we will still have events!
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat do you attend events ?
[10:16] Sonja Strom: It is possible for us to have events that do not cost a lot of money.
[10:16] Sonja Strom: For example, a panel discussion.
[10:16] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, those with marketable skills or assets rarely have that problem – I would hope rental property in CDS would be seen as such an asset
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hm
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will they be professional sonja ?
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: stui, i try to take decisions based on what’s best for the CDS, not what i prefer to do here
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or are we cutting our most vital source of interest?
[10:16] Arria Perreault: I propose we continue the discussion on the budget with Sonja’s other issues and that we talk about a new legislation about the budget in the next meeting
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well how can you comment when I can’t recall seeing you samplin the events ?
[10:17] Pip Torok: second
[10:17] Sonja Strom: Stui, it seems to me like they could be professional.
[10:17] Arria Perreault: thank you Pip
[10:17] Mikelo Serevi: kasiedo, tell that to nicolas cage
[10:17] Arria Perreault: we vote on this motion
[10:17] Pip Torok: aye
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: stui. it’s not just the ‘events regulars’ who get to have an opinion. it’s my money too!
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it ought to have some bearing upon it
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:18] Arria Perreault: we vote now to discuss a legislation about the budget next meeting
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s somewhat like telling the vet your dog has fleas over the telephone and expecting him to take your word for it
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: it has no bearing on it. ppl who have never attended an event get to have an opinion
[10:18] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not a very informed opinion is it ?
[10:19] Patroklus Murakami: only in your (ill informed) opinion
[10:19] Arria Perreault: Lilith, Stui, your vote
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no pat
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know about the events
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I go there
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I don’t expect to be paid for serving here
[10:20] Arria Perreault: Stui, we are voting
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or in anything I do in CDS
[10:20] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so I see it rather different
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Aye
[10:20] Arria Perreault: I vote aye too
[10:20] Pip Torok:
[10:21] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t expect to be paid either but i reject the oppressive notion that only *some* ppl get to have an opinion
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t say only some people had an opinion
[10:21] Arria Perreault: I will prepare a proposal for the next meeting. Sonja, we can discuss your next issue
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I implied only certain opinions carry value
[10:21] Sonja Strom: Thanks.
[10:21] Kaseido Quandry: Stui, I think it entirely depends on whether you’re here to grow a vibrant community, or for the politics – if you’re here for the politics, the community doesn’t really matter, yes?
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the uninformed opinion being one such
[10:21] Pip Torok: yes thanks
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: yeah, and that’s what’s oppressive stui
[10:21] Sonja Strom: Once we have determined how much we want to spend,
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not oppressive
[10:22] Sonja Strom: then we can talk about how to distribute the expenditures.
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s logical and common sense
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: let’s continue this another time stui. our debate is just interrupting the meeting now
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: agreed
[10:22] Arria Perreault: Stui, we will have an opportunity to continue the discussion
[10:23] Sonja Strom: These two issues inter-relate, because of the kinds of aspects that have been raised already in this conversation.
[10:23] Sonja Strom: There are the CDS-wide expenditures,
[10:24] Sonja Strom: which are the executive allowances, and the web portal hosting costs,
[10:24] Sonja Strom: but the other costs are mostly based on a location.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: Such as an event.
[10:25] Sonja Strom: My suggestion is, we distribute those finances regionally,
[10:25] Sonja Strom: to the regional committees to decide how they would like to spend the money.
[10:26] Sonja Strom: We could have an equivalent distribution per sim…
[10:26] Sonja Strom: although, some sims are homestead sims with few residents.
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: are these funds earmarked for events only? or could the regional committee decide it would prefer to offer a tier discount instead?
[10:27] Pip Torok: (maybe half the portion to homesteads?)
[10:27] Sonja Strom: One way we could deal with that would be to determine the prim usage for each area.
[10:27] Sonja Strom: Patroklus, it seems to me such a decision is what we are considering in this conversation here,
[10:28] Sonja Strom: and allowing the regional council to make community decisions is something I would recommend.
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja is there a link between the expenditure and the accruement ?
[10:29] Sonja Strom: One reason why I think this could be good is, it would allow for equivalent representation across the CDS in the area of financial expenditures.
[10:30] Sonja Strom: Stui, that is a good question.
[10:30] Pip Torok raises hand
[10:30] Sonja Strom: From everything I know, at the moment,
[10:31] Arria Perreault: (when Sonja is finished, Pip)
[10:31] Sonja Strom: if we look at the big picture of the finances of the CDS,
[10:31] Sonja Strom: every area is spending more than it is taking in.
[10:31] Sonja Strom: There is not any area of the CDS, so far as I know, that is currently at a positive balance.
[10:32] Sonja Strom: Have I answered this question adequately?
[10:32] Pip Torok: i.e. a deficit!
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is it a case of speculation
[10:32] Sonja Strom: Yes, unfortunatley.
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to reap reward later ?
[10:32] Pip Torok: mmm 🙁
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait… *all* areas are operating as a deficit!?
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean all sims, Sonja? 🙁
[10:33] Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, I mean themes.
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how great is the deficit
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in percentage terms ?
[10:34] Sonja Strom: Some sims are operating with a small positive balance,
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: do we have a percentage ?
[10:34] Sonja Strom: but overall, in my understanding, there is no theme in the CDS where this is the case.
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are the figures tested ?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah… per theme
[10:35] Patroklus Murakami: this is really serious. we are dipping in to our reserves. spend income, not capital!
[10:35] Pip Torok: (like the UK as it happens …)
[10:35] Sonja Strom: Stui, it is difficut for us to arrive at specific figures that mean very much for any specific point in time,
[10:35] Patroklus Murakami: quite 🙂
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s then difficult to make a qualitative analysis
[10:36] Sonja Strom: partly because the methods of collecting tier and accounting differ between the old CDS sims and the new ones,
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore it’s even more tough to make an informed judgement surely?
[10:36] Arria Perreault: Sonja, are you talking about all expenses or only the fees to LL?
[10:36] Sonja Strom: and partly because the new sims are on a 6-month cycle for payment of their tier to LL.
[10:37] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, that answers the question I asked earlier – it’s a balance of payments issue
[10:37] Sonja Strom: So at present it makes the most sense for us to look at the overall cycles.
[10:37] Kaseido Quandry: you’re *going* to have fluctuations if your income is monthly and your expenses are semi-annual – this is obvious
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Is AA in deficit ?
[10:37] Sonja Strom: If we look at the overall cycles, the CDS is operating at a negative balance.
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when analysed seperate ?
[10:38] Sonja Strom: Stui, I was trying to avoid this question, lol
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I like to ask the difficult ones
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it lets me know that I do my job
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[10:38] Sonja Strom: Alright 🙂
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: Stui, it seems inconceivable if they’re being billed at nonprofit rates, and charging market tier to renters
[10:38] Sonja Strom: Stui, because you have asked…
[10:38] Sonja Strom: I will give you an honest answer.
[10:39] Sonja Strom: I want to be clear it is not an answer I want to give – –
[10:39] Sonja Strom: At the moment, if one looks at the overall finances of the CDS,
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: kas, there are relatively few private lots though and lots of public land in AA. so the nonprofit benefit evens out
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Pat, that makes sense
[10:39] Sonja Strom: the area that is the biggest drain to the finances is Al Andalus.
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and how ?
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in your opinion ?
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s at full occupancy now
[10:40] Sonja Strom: Largely Stui, this comes from its events.
[10:40] Mikelo Serevi: So what about all this jibba jabba of filling all plots and how CDS doesn’t do it right?
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and are these events of detriment to the sims ?
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with all due respect
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are analysing facts
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not looking to put the knife in
[10:41] Pip Torok supports Mikelo’s point
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there’s no need for that comment
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: yeah, and we’ve heard a lot in tha past how AA is great at selling land
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it serves no constructive purpose
[10:41] Arria Perreault: I think also that AA has a lot of public land
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: so I’m having trouble understanding this, but let’s move on
[10:41] Arias Ahren: What will happen to the overall finances if AA withdraws from CDS?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to see actual financial statements- and I’d like to see the *RA* see actual financial statements, and not be arguing over hearsay
[10:42] Arria Perreault: I asked since long time for a masterplan of AA to see how cost a prim in average
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wasn’t aware that I was about to bring RA into a bash the “new sims” humour
[10:42] Sonja Strom: Yes, it is true that Al Andauls has a large amount of public land.
[10:42] Lilith Ivory agrees with Kas
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I apologise to the citizens that it has taken this turn
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then also
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: you did bring it up, stui
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: won’t the deficit now be slightly more offset on account of the full occupancy
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did mikelo
[10:43] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, toward the beginning of this conversation I gave links to some financial statements.
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t take a swipe at CDS
[10:43] Arria Perreault: Now we have to see how we can move forward
[10:43] Sonja Strom: Shall I give them again?
[10:43] Kaseido Quandry: Sonja, they don’t allow you to evaluate the financial status of AA vis a vis CDS
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t see that it’s good political sense to take a swipe at AA
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the citizens are part AA
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you serve them too
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: remember that
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t disrupt the meeting
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: stui, it just puts some of the AA triumphalism we have seen recently in perspective
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: but i agree that we don’t need to make heavy weather of this
[10:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: apparently it does
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: we are all in this together after all
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: depending on these unqualified figures
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which sonja will say
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are tough to quantify
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve heard an opinion from Arria, I have not seen any documentation to support it or refute it
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and are actually yet to be given range
[10:45] Sonja Strom: If you would like I can make a report showing the finances of the old sims vs. the new sims as best I am able,
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we are now pulling forward in AA
[10:45] Arria Perreault: ALl the datas are on the portal regarding expenditures
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and decreasing deficit
[10:45] Pip Torok: that I would like, Sonja
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then that is hardly the case
[10:46] Sonja Strom: but it seems to me that would be counterproductive to the cooperation we want to have in our community.
[10:46] Arria Perreault: all the datas for 2009 are available
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you haven’t asked what direction the financesare heading in
[10:46] Arria Perreault: each expense is there
[10:46] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think we should hide from the facts, frankly
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so don’t celebrate before the horse has crossed the line
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: Sonja, data can’t be counterproductive, compared to the sniping currently going on
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what are the facts Mikelo
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as yet
[10:46] Arria Perreault: the only thing we don’t have is a masterplan of AA
[10:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I haven’t seen them presented beyond the shadow of doubt
[10:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t have them here
[10:47] Sonja Strom: Alright – in that case, don’t get mad at me later for having made these comparisons!
[10:47] Arria Perreault: number of parcels, fees for each parcels, average price for prim
[10:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I haven’t studied them
[10:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: have you ?
[10:47] Sonja Strom: I would much rather talk about the CDS as a whole.
[10:47] Arria Perreault: if someone can get this datas, I would be happy
[10:47] Pip Torok: and me too, Arria
[10:48] Sonja Strom: The *only* reason I will create such a report is because it was requested by you, I want that to be very clear.
[10:48] Arria Perreault: with this master plan, we could compare AA and the rest of CDS concernaing the incomes from land, without waiting the payements
[10:48] Arria Perreault: we can now at least virtually the incomes we can expect from AA, when it is full rented
[10:49] Arria Perreault: now I think we should allow money to each regional committee proportionnally to their incomes
[10:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP
[10:49] Arria Perreault: thier potential incomes
[10:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask
[10:49] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are there some areas of the CDS that have no expenditures ?
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in terms of the high costs
[10:50] Arria Perreault: in events you mean?
[10:50] Sonja Strom: Stui, I am sorry, but I don’t understand your question.
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and do we propose percentage allowance
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or equal ?
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well you see
[10:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have this pot of money
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the budget
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we are going to give each region a chunk of it
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but if one area spends very little
[10:51] Arria Perreault: why not
[10:51] Sonja Strom: That is my suggestion Stui, yes.
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and another spends a ton
[10:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then isn’t that just meaning that in the interests of equality
[10:51] Arria Perreault: each committee will get a budget
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that dead space is going to restrict the living ?
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry nods at Stui
[10:52] Arria Perreault: many people have asked we do also something in LA and CN. we will need money too
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami wonders which parts of the CDS stui considers to be ‘dead space’
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like pouring money into a cemetery for it to be a concert hall
[10:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t say I had one in mind Pat
[10:52] Mikelo Serevi: We did try regional comittees before, right?
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s just a term
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or a turn of phrase
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: pretty offensive language if you ask me
[10:53] Arria Perreault: they are there
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s nice
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t dress it up
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I say it like it is
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: especially when the suggestion is that one part should subsidise the other
[10:53] Sonja Strom: Stui, here is one answer I can give to your question:
[10:53] Sonja Strom: There is no area of the CDS where there is never a request for expenditures.
[10:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but there are lower ones ?
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t necessarily have a problem with that, but at least try to be grateful 🙂
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pat
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I stand for CDS
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would defend one space if I felt there was a need
[10:54] Arria Perreault: Stui, what is your idea? that we bet only in one area to promote CDS?
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you make your attacks where no one has thrown a stone
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well AP
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I always said that if you look at CDS
[10:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: some areas
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: have specific buildings
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: correct
[10:55] Arria Perreault: like?
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well those buildings lend themselves to be venues for specific types of events
[10:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s something like what I said before
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we have on several sims
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you wouldn’t have a rock concert in the Monastery
[10:56] Kaseido Quandry: *any* community has areas that *generate* income from property taxes and areas that *spend* revenue – public facilities. There’s a certain flaw in saying they should have the same level of expenditures
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we have a wonderful theater in CN
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore in the theatre you’d have certain events
[10:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like pips poetry
[10:56] Arria Perreault: the Monastery has an other aim and doesnt work with events
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: yes, NFS must have higher event expenses than AM, for example
[10:56] Patroklus Murakami: i agree kas, but we should make a decision on that basis
[10:57] Arria Perreault: rock concernt in CN theater would be great
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: and not let it happen by default that one part subsidises another
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well then to say that the sims get equal expenditures
[10:57] Arria Perreault: we had jazz or blue concerts in the past
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: isn’t taking into account the design or make up of the sims
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, I agree that it should be a considered decision, definitely
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if a sim has a venue
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but hasn’t the funds to use it
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then that would be a problem would it not
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in which case
[10:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: shouldn’t each sim be evaluated for viability for hosting events
[10:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and for risk of incurring certain expenses
[10:58] Arria Perreault: we could make a list of places for events
[10:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and then the budget be made in accordance with that evaluation ?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:58] Arria Perreault: now we have to go forward
[10:59] Sonja Strom: I would like to simply make one thing clear, that my suggestion was not so much about sims, but themes.
[10:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all then you could divide the costs more quantitatively
[10:59] Mikelo Serevi: yeah, we’re getting off track
[10:59] Arria Perreault: in the current legislation, the Chancellor doesnt need a vot to have a budget. She must only make a report
[10:59] Patroklus Murakami: we have had a lot of discussion on the budget. time to move on?
[11:00] Arria Perreault: we have given many inputs on the budget and I think she can work on a proposal
[11:00] Arria Perreault: or maybe you have already one, Sonja?
[11:01] Sonja Strom: Arria, I think it is important for the community to be involved in the concepts before arriving actual numbers – these can always be adjusted.
[11:02] Arria Perreault: do you need more inputs from us?
[11:02] Sonja Strom: Right now if we look at the finances of the CDS overall, we have no money to spend except from the reserve.
[11:02] Arria Perreault: so no budget ? 😉
[11:03] Sonja Strom: Exactly – our budget is based on how much we want to spend money we are not taking in. 🙂
[11:03] Sonja Strom: There are two further issues I would like to talk about in relation to the budget.
[11:03] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:03] Sonja Strom: Both can be talked about quickly (I think…).
[11:04] Sonja Strom: One is that there are some citizens who are not paying their tier on time,
[11:04] Patroklus Murakami: if we are spending only from our reserves, i would propose a spending freeze on everything apart from tier until we are in a more sound financial position
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: how late are we talking?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and sometimes when they do, they are only making partial payments.
[11:05] Pip Torok: Folks, I must go … thanks for a lively meeting
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: cu pip
[11:05] Sonja Strom: Mikelo, this varies, but in some cases it never gets paid, or only partially after two months.
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: bye pip 🙂
[11:05] Sonja Strom: Bye Pip 🙂
[11:05] Imotali Antiesse: bye Pip
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: I think this came up before
[11:05] Arias Ahren: Take care, Pip.
[11:05] Arria Perreault: Bye Pip
[11:05] Lilith Ivory: bye Pip
[11:05] Sonja Strom: Yes Mikelo, it has.
[11:05] Yekaterina Kalchek: Bye Pip
[11:06] Sonja Strom: Especially we talked about this issue in the last Town Hall meeting.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: We have a law regarding this, which can be found here: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[11:06] Sonja Strom: It is quite complex, and is not working very well.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: I suggest that we simplify it,
[11:07] Sonja Strom: to make it easier for everybody.
[11:07] Sonja Strom: I have put some work into how to do this,
[11:07] Mikelo Serevi: it does seem overly complex, good idea
[11:07] Sonja Strom: and am letting you know about this.
[11:07] Sonja Strom: We can talk more about it later…
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Have the required letters been sent?
[11:08] Sonja Strom: unless you want to say something about it now.
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Tor, in the cases where they apply, yes.
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: then after a month and a half we take back land?
[11:08] Sonja Strom: However, there are exceptions to sending the letters
[11:09] Sonja Strom: which are described in the later parts of the law…
[11:09] Sonja Strom: so in some cases letters have not been sent.
[11:09] Sonja Strom: However, individual IMs have always been sent.
[11:10] Sonja Strom: When you are ready I can get to the last budget issue I would like for us to talk about.
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t see many exceptions
[11:10] Arias Ahren: I too must take my leave. Be well.
[11:10] Sonja Strom: bye Arias 🙂 you too.
[11:10] Arria Perreault: Bye Arias
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou for coming Arias
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: bye arias
[11:11] Arria Perreault: ok Sonja
[11:11] Mikelo Serevi: bye arias
[11:11] Sonja Strom: It seems to me it could be good for the RA Archivist to receive a stipend of L$1,000 per month.
[11:11] Yekaterina Kalchek: bye Arias
[11:11] Sonja Strom: That is a lot of work, and I think it would be good to help that person with their tier payments.
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: Well, in light of the budget issues, maybe we can put that off a while
[11:12] Patroklus Murakami: i agree, i thought it was a paid position
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: Although, I can see the point in having a stipend
[11:12] Sonja Strom: Maybe it was Pat and I just didn’t know 🙂
[11:13] Sonja Strom: We have not had one for a while…
[11:13] Lilith Ivory: thought so also
[11:13] Arria Perreault: we should ask Sudane or look the old budgets
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: i’m pretty sure that the archivist was paid when i was LRA
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: would it be a conflict for me to be on the RA and get paid?
[11:14] Sonja Strom: Arria, with all respect to you, it seems to me the RA can decide what it wants to do for this term.
[11:14] Arria Perreault: no Mikelo, as you work
[11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well might I chime in ?
[11:14] Arria Perreault: Stui
[11:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I recall at a previous RA
[11:14] Lilith Ivory: I get paid also for being caretaker 🙂
[11:15] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there was mention of the way the Archivist works
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and mention of colour coding
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and when asked we were told by Mikelo
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that he hadn’t time
[11:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when there is a payment made for the role
[11:15] Mikelo Serevi: Actually, I use the color coding
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will we also set a standard format expectation ?
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the first time you didn’t Mikelo
[11:16] Mikelo Serevi: I was only rushed that time
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well yes
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then I was just interested to know if there was a standard of presentation to work to
[11:16] Mikelo Serevi: I think I was responding to pointless complaints, nit picking
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and if that would now be adhered to
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: nope
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am protecting the interests of Caro
[11:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as she’s not here
[11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and also
[11:17] Mikelo Serevi: how is caro involved?
[11:17] Arria Perreault: well, Stui the question is much more general
[11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was interested to know if it can be standardised as you rather pointed out at that point in time due to not being paid then you set the standard
[11:17] Arria Perreault: is the position of RA Archivist paid or not
[11:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I was wondering if now that you are to be paid
[11:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we were to decide the standard
[11:18] Arria Perreault: the person in this position is not the question today
[11:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: prior to your payment being made
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: RA archivist is a paid position
[11:18] Mikelo Serevi: it hasn’t been decided I will be paid
[11:18] Arria Perreault: so the question is already solved?
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: yup
[11:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:18] Mikelo Serevi: but anyway, I have been using gwyn’s color coding, since several people asked for it
[11:18] Sonja Strom: Great, thank you 🙂
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we are finished for budget today?
[11:19] Sonja Strom: Thank you also for this conversation about the budget for our community, the Confederation of Democratic Sims.
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: please
[11:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: just dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we continue next time with a piece of legislation
[11:19] Arria Perreault: thank you Sonja, for your work
[11:20] Arria Perreault: we move to next point
[11:20] Arria Perreault: I suggest we postpone it, as Gelf is not present
[11:20] Arria Perreault: b. 7 day vote (permanent 7 day vote)
[11:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Caro
[11:20] Patroklus Murakami: i agree
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then when do we have a full RA ?
[11:21] Arria Perreault: I have started a thread in the forum
[11:21] Arria Perreault: all agree we postpone?
[11:21] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:21] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:21] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure… it’s not horribly urgent
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:21] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[11:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:22] Arria Perreault: motions carries
[11:22] Arria Perreault: d. First report from the CDS Citizen Definition Workgroup chaired by Mikelo Serevi
[11:22] Imotali Antiesse: (few RAs are not here now is like 7 day vote already being applied)
[11:22] Arria Perreault: Mikelo?
[11:23] Mikelo Serevi: All right, we had one meeting so far
[11:23] Arria Perreault: (only Timo has asked for a 7 day vote)
[11:23] Mikelo Serevi: It was fairly productive
[11:23] Mikelo Serevi: One thing everyone seemed to agree on is that one plot per citizen is fair
[11:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP I asked for one too in lieu of being here… it’s an eternally renewing request on the off chance that I am held up 🙂
[11:23] Mikelo Serevi: Personally, I’m not sure we can get by without any exceptions to this
[11:24] Arria Perreault: (Stui, we will discuss this point next time)
[11:24] Mikelo Serevi: We weren’t able to make a lot of progress on deciding what specific exceptions to use
[11:24] Mikelo Serevi: Opinions varied quite a lot on that
[11:25] Mikelo Serevi: And we could use more information about how many people in AA would lose a vote is we applied the one plot one citizen rule
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: We also need more information about how many people are grandfathered in as group ownership citizens only
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami: i expect some non-AA citizens would lose their vote if we abolished the group land citizenship act
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: This might turn out to be a nonissue
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, it is likely to affect some people
[11:27] Mikelo Serevi: I need to follow up about that and schedule another meeting to talk about my findings
[11:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: must some of the RA always make negative references to AA as if it were not equal to CDS and part of the same ?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still haven’t an official list of citizens, right? (sorry to interrupt)
[11:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: respect would be good
[11:27] Mikelo Serevi: I’m only considering the needs of AA citizens in referring to them, stui
[11:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wasn’t aiming for your comments Mikelo
[11:27] Patroklus Murakami: no negative reference made stui
[11:28] Arria Perreault: spreadsheets.google.com/pub= … utput=html
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wasn’t aware it was your report anyhow Pat
[11:28] Arria Perreault: I think CDS and AA citizen are in the list now
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I thought it was Mikelo’s
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thanks, Arria!)
[11:28] Patroklus Murakami: just chipping in with additional useful information
[11:28] Arria Perreault: ok Pat
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: mikelo is capable of making a report
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he is chair
[11:29] Arria Perreault: and I am chair here now 😉
[11:29] Mikelo Serevi: So that’s it in a nutshell
[11:29] Arria Perreault: Pat, will you add something?
[11:30] Mikelo Serevi: I want to make sure we make a fair decision in the end
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: well, i think mikelo has given an excellent account 🙂
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks very much, Mikelo!
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: personally, i think we should institute simpler citizenship rules as a consequence
[11:30] Arria Perreault: good
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: (at least) one plot = one citizen = one RL person
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: but we need to make allowances for a transition if ppl would lose citizenship otherwise
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: i’m thinking of ‘group land citizens’ in particular
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[11:31] Arria Perreault: thank
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: That does seem to be what’s needed, yes
[11:32] Arria Perreault: I f I summarize, Mikelo will organize an other meeting and report again or prepare a proposal
[11:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes 🙂
[11:33] Arria Perreault: we move to the next point
[11:33] Arria Perreault: a. Organisation of meetings to discuss the continuation of the merger (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2787)
11:33] Arria Perreault: Pat, you have the floor
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: ty arria
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: we have almost reached one year after the merger of AA and CDS
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: there is the option to dissolve the merger at the one year mark
[11:34] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2787
[11:34] Mikelo Serevi: Was June the cutoff?
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: AA is holding its own meetings to consider the issues and advise rose
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest that the CDS should hold its own meetings to advise the RA of citizens’ views
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: because this assembly can also dissolve the merger by a 2/3 vote
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: (or choose not to, of course!)
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: i think the sims were transferred in the first week of june (but I could be wrong)
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: so that woudl be the key date
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we use the next couple of ‘Town Hall’ meetings and publicise them accordingly
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[11:36] Mikelo Serevi: I think this is a good idea
[11:36] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that motion…
[11:37] Arria Perreault: I think it is a good idea too
[11:37] Arria Perreault: precision: the transcripts of Town Halls are published too
[11:37] Arria Perreault: we can vote
[11:37] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:37] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:37] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:38] Arria Perreault: Imotali? Stui?
[11:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP is there still a quorum ?
[11:39] Patroklus Murakami: think so
[11:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and also
[11:39] Mikelo Serevi: Incidentally, I dont’ have a complete transcript of last town hall
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: barely… but yes
[11:39] Arria Perreault: we are 7 and a 7-day vote
[11:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I might be wrong
[11:39] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:39] Mikelo Serevi: If anyone else does, I could use it
[11:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but can RA elect to demerge ?
[11:39] Patroklus Murakami: yes stui it can according to the terms of the merger agreement
[11:39] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: by 2/3 vote
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, with a 2/3 vote
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right, like Pat said
[11:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: just at one point there was some confusion over it somewhere
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we just have been working under the common assumption that this RA is unanimously for the merger 🙂
[11:40] Arria Perreault: Stui, we are oly voting on the organisation of discussion in the Town Halls
[11:41] Arria Perreault: not on the merger
[11:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well then aye
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, no confusions hehe
[11:41] Arria Perreault: Imotali?
[11:41] Imotali Antiesse: aye (though Im still thinking the necessity)
[11:41] Arria Perreault: I vote aye too
[11:42] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[11:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask
[11:42] Arria Perreault: the two next Town Halls will be a discussion about the merger
[11:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: has any of the RA been to meetings related to the merger ?
[11:42] Arria Perreault: I hope that Patroklus will accept to organise them
[11:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in AA I mean
[11:43] Mikelo Serevi: I wasn’t even aware of them
[11:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am trying to recall
[11:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was at one
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well Imo… on the last RA, a bill was approved to make all possible efforts to get citizen’s feedback on any issues that might be pending re: the merger. This is just to make sure we do, indeed, talk about it
[11:43] Arria Perreault: most of us were not invited 🙁
[11:43] Kaseido Quandry: Pip was present
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: not allowed to attend the AA ones stui
[11:43] Imotali Antiesse: only Pip as far i remember
[11:43] Arria Perreault: Pip has a house on AA. I don’t have
[11:43] Lilith Ivory: only AA citizens were allowed to come
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[11:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ah
[11:43] Arria Perreault: yes, Stui
[11:44] Kaseido Quandry: yes, the meetings were for AA citizens only, to speak freely in advising Rose
[11:44] Arria Perreault: if not, we would all attend
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then has any of the RA organised meetings with AA citizens ?
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you know
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just Town Hall…
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: of their own accord
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: my proposal is to allow meetings for all cds citizens
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: specifically ?
[11:44] Arria Perreault: we have voted for this Stui, and AA citizen can come to these meetings
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thus the need for approving Pat’s proposal
[11:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so the CDS meetings related to the merger
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: these ones we just approved
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AA citizens can come too ?
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: the meetings i have proposed are inclusive of everyone not excluding anyone
[11:45] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: just checking
[11:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll tell them
[11:45] Arria Perreault: thank you Stui
[11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: here’s the text of the merger agreement
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2445
[11:46] Arria Perreault: before we move to adjourn, I will check the next dates
[11:46] Arria Perreault: next week, we have the first Town Hall about the merger
[11:46] Arria Perreault: 18th April
[11:47] Arria Perreault: Next RA 25th April
[11:47] Kaseido Quandry: that’s not currently reflected on the Google calendar, btw
[11:47] Arria Perreault: 2nd May: Town Hall about the merger
[11:47] Arria Perreault: and 9th May: RA
[11:47] Arria Perreault: I will update the calender, Kaseido
[11:48] Arria Perreault: is it ok so?
[11:48] Mikelo Serevi: sounds good
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with the dates
[11:48] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, she is just announcing them… but it is good to have a reminder 🙂
[11:48] Lilith Ivory: fine for me
[11:48] Arria Perreault: I will publish this and update the calender
[11:48] Arria Perreault: we can adjourn now
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds adjournment
[11:49] Arria Perreault: 🙂
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[11:49] Imotali Antiesse: 🙂
[11:49] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:49] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:49] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:49] Imotali Antiesse: Thanks Arria, aye
[11:50] Arria Perreault: Thank you for the meeting 🙂
[11:50] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew ty all
[11:50] Arria Perreault: we are adjourned
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woot
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I shouldn’t be *so* eager to adjourn
[11:50] Imotali Antiesse: lol
[11:50] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:50] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!
[11:50] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[11:50] Arria Perreault: 🙂
[11:51] Kaseido Quandry: again, if anybody else would be up for a half hour conversation about AA for a term paper, please IM me!
[11:51] Arria Perreault: ok, Kaseido
[11:51] Patroklus Murakami: bye everyone 🙂
[11:52] Mikelo Serevi: adios
[11:52] Lilith Ivory: bye everyone
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!

Permalink.

RA Town Hall Meeting 18 April 2010

RA Town Hall Meeting 18 April 2010: Transcript – Part 1
by mikeloserevi » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:48 pm
9:04] Patroklus Murakami: now, i’ll just send a couple of group notices and then we can begin
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: It’s easier if I’m here the whole time. I missed 15 min of the last town hall
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: the recorder is nice to have though, in case of crashes, net probs, etc
[9:05] Claude Desmoulins: Pat just said he was going to.
[9:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas
[9:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor- thanks for the TP – I couldn’t find an announcement with an LM
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: good turnout so far
[9:08] Joaquin Gustav: hello
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: one day i’ll work out how to add landmarks to notices. it was so much easier with the old viewer
[9:08] Mikelo Serevi: hi joaquin
[9:08] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I tried the new viewer, it’s odd
[9:09] Lilith Ivory: hi Joa
[9:09] Kaseido Quandry: it is – it’s really disorienting
[9:09] Joaquin Gustav: hello my friend
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Pat could you send another notice with a landmark?
[9:09] Arias Ahren: That’s okay Cleo
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: how do you add them to notices tor? anyone know?
[9:09] Arias Ahren: I love your perfume
[9:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: not in viewer 2, I’m afraid
[9:10] Arias Ahren: Hummm
[9:10] Mikelo Serevi: I can send it, I have the old viewer
[9:10] Mikelo Serevi: I reverted
[9:10] Tor Karlsvalt: drop it in as an attachement
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: thx mikelo
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: pls click the recorder in the centre to indicate you are happy to be recorded for the chat log. we will post a transcript of the town hall later
[9:11] Tor Karlsvalt: seems i don’t have perms to send notices.
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: i think mikelo said he would do that tor
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: shall we get started?
[9:12] Arias Ahren: Yes
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: well, the purpose of these town hall meetings is to have more informal meetings in between the regular RA meetings
[9:13] Imotali Antiesse: oh sorry
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: so that ppl can feed in their concerns in a less formal atmosphere
[9:13] Imotali Antiesse: HELLO
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: so far they have been pretty productive
[9:13] Arias Ahren: Hello, Imo
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: and some good actions have come out as a result
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: this one has been called to discuss one issue in particular – the merger between the CDS and Al Andalus
[9:13] Imotali Antiesse: HI Arias
[9:13] Lilith Ivory: Hi Imo
[9:14] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Lilith
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: we are almost at the one year anniversary now so it’s a good time to take stock and see what has worked and what hasn’t
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: how¬¥s your dog Imo?
[9:14] Imotali Antiesse:
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: in addition, the anniversary of teh sim move in late july
[9:14] Imotali Antiesse: found him
[9:14] Imotali Antiesse: at the vet
[9:14] Imotali Antiesse: with Rose
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: is the point at which either side can disssolve the merger
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: lol
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: AA has held some private meetings on this subject
[9:15] Mikelo Serevi: have they?
[9:15] Arias Ahren: Yes
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: this is an open meeting for anyone in the CDS (both former old CDS sims and Al Andalus) to say what they think about the merger
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: this will help to inform the future RAs actions
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: we have elections in june
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: so the next RA gets to make the decision for the cds side
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: so, enough chatter from me
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: who wants to kick off with their thoughts on the merger so far?
[9:16] Claude Desmoulins: Actually elections are in MAy
[9:16] Arias Ahren: Pat would it be innappropriate to start with a staw vote of thoses generally in favor and those opposed?
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: ty claude. my mistake
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Solario
[9:16] Mikelo Serevi: That’s interesting timing
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami: how do ppl feel about arias’ suggestion?
[9:16] Solomon Mosely: i’m for the merger
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I am for the merger
[9:17] Mikelo Serevi: I haven’t made up my mind yet about it
[9:17] Arias Ahren: I am as well
[9:17] Arias Ahren: I say that setting aside politics and emotions
[9:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: don’t like the idea of pro/con before the discussion
[9:17] Arias Ahren: Which is easy for me to do since I am so new
[9:18] Solomon Mosely: and i dont have any problem with ‘them’ having their own internal meetings about it, i would expect it
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: (notetaker is working by the way. pls click it to indicate consent to being recorded for the chat log)
[9:18] Claude Desmoulins: While at some point we will have to count noses, perhaps putting everyone into yes/no/maybe groups from the get go is polarizing.
[9:18] Lilith Ivory: I¬¥d be very sad if AA would leave
[9:18] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree solomon
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: well, no one has to give their view now. and it can be a bit polarising
[9:18] Carolyn Saarinen: ” setting aside politics and emotions” ? How can that be done?
[9:18] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Calude
[9:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: agree Claude
[9:18] Kaseido Quandry: *Claude
[9:18] Solomon Mosely: good point claude
[9:18] Mikelo Serevi: Well sol, I think people might scream if CDS had a private meeting about it
[9:18] Arias Ahren: Yes, It could, but it might help clarify
[9:19] Patroklus Murakami: i am in favour of the merger and it continuing (for the record!)
[9:19] Arias Ahren: so often I leave these meetings wondering what people are really thinking.
[9:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: What did the AA meetings come up with, is that public?
[9:19] Arias Ahren: No
[9:19] Kaseido Quandry: they were advisory only, Rose polling AA residents for opinions
[9:19] Arias Ahren: There are many mixed feelings
[9:19] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve heard different reports of the outcome cleo
[9:20] Lilith Ivory: I think it¬¥s just locical that the AA residents wanted to discus that by their own
[9:20] Arias Ahren: I think it would be wron to think in terms of outcome
[9:20] Arias Ahren: There is uncertanity
[9:20] Solomon Mosely: for me, its a question of how to make it work, not if it should
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: maybe i should have said ‘content’ rather than outcome
[9:20] Kaseido Quandry: yes, it seems to be the *beginning* of the process of reaching an evaulation
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Sol
[9:21] Arias Ahren: Rose has been silent for the most part
[9:21] Arias Ahren: she is listening to those in AA and assimilating
[9:21] Carolyn Saarinen: T oavoid criticism
[9:21] Arias Ahren: Perhaps
[9:22] Arias Ahren: she has been getting her share as is
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps it is best that rose is silent on the matter and is just hearing our opinions.
[9:22] Solomon Mosely: personally, i dont see what the problem is. why wouldnt we want the merger to succeed?
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: I agree Tor
[9:22] Carolyn Saarinen: No, that is her stated aim: To avoiod biasising public opinion
[9:22] Claude Desmoulins: I wish those who think that things aren’t working well would be more up front about what they see as problems.
[9:22] Solomon Mosely: yes
[9:22] Arias Ahren: She is not attending to day since she believes that she might inhibit our discussion
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could explore what is working, and what is not working?
[9:23] Patroklus Murakami: that could lead us to what needs to change to make it work
[9:23] Arias Ahren: Good thought Pat.
[9:23] Carolyn Saarinen: Give me an axe…
[9:23] Arias Ahren: Your back pocket Caro
[9:23] Patroklus Murakami: mommie dearest?
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: here’s a possible approach –
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: Hi Nohelia
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: some of the questions raised were as to, what the benefits to AA from the merger are/have been/will be –
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: I know I for one would be interested in your thoughts on that, in making up my own mind
[9:25] Carolyn Saarinen: Don’t see any. Quite the opposite
[9:25] nohelia Avindar: hola a todos
[9:25] nohelia’s Google Translator: hi all
[9:25] Carolyn Saarinen: As-sal√°amu :al√°i-kum
[9:25] Mikelo Serevi: hi nohelia
[9:25] nohelia Avindar: hola mikelo
[9:25] nohelia’s Google Translator: hola mikel
[9:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: What the merger did was .. well it wasn’t a merger it was a move that absorbed CDS and choked it and killed it.
[9:25] Patroklus Murakami: so, we could look at benefits to AA and CDS. what are they?
[9:26] Carolyn Saarinen: Whay absorbed, choked and killed CDS?
[9:26] Solomon Mosely: why do you say that cleo?
[9:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: AA
[9:26] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS beneftis to have a very vibrant community attached to it.
[9:26] Arias Ahren: The sims in their entirity are quite impressive.
[9:26] Carolyn Saarinen: Ok, we’ll leave
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: from the CDS perspective – we have doubled in size and new citizens have stimulated us by bringing in new and different ideas
[9:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it was just that it was too much at one time
[9:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: imo
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami is trying to look for positive benefits to begin with
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t agree Cleo.
[9:27] Carolyn Saarinen: No. Fine. We’ll leave.
[9:27] Solomon Mosely: i still dont hear anything of substance cleo
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Really polically, I don’t see AA has having a great influence.
[9:27] Arias Ahren: A great deal of the tension relates to the merge itself
[9:27] Solomon Mosely: or you caro, why are you against it?
[9:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: probably no one thinks that but me so don’t worry
[9:28] Arias Ahren: Perhaps is it was actualized and behind us things would settle down and become more constructive
[9:28] Solomon Mosely: well, you havent really explained your thoughts
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: Actually, the rapid growth does tend to cause administrative problems
[9:28] Carolyn Saarinen: Against? I was never ‘for’. AA was fine. It’ll be fine again.
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: none that I am sure couldn’t be surmounted.
[9:29] Solomon Mosely: you mean challenges mike?
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Wasp
[9:29] Kaseido Quandry: hey Wasp!
[9:29] Lilith Ivory: Hi Wasp
[9:29] Wasp Thor: Hello, everyone
[9:29] Claude Desmoulins: Be back in a moment, must change devices.
[9:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the problem is AA doesnt want to be part of CDS, it wants to be AA
[9:29] Solomon Mosely: ok, so ‘against’ isnt the right word, how about “why didnt you want it to happen?”
[9:29] Mikelo Serevi: Slower growth allows for adjustments, fast growth can be overwhelming
[9:30] Arias Ahren: I don’t think that is a certanity, Cleo
[9:30] Solomon Mosely: it wasnt a surprise
[9:30] Carolyn Saarinen: Rose had enough affection for CDS to try an experiment. She’s been kicked in the teeth.
[9:30] Carolyn Saarinen: You don’t like us. We don’t need you.
[9:31] Arias Ahren: Rose is having a hard time with withdrawinbg from CDS.
[9:31] Solomon Mosely: yes, but thats not to say that the idea was bad. wait, who doesnt like you?
[9:31] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[9:31] Arias Ahren: It has been her home from the beginning.
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure that’s true caro. i’m not aware of anyone in the CDS bit (apart from cleo) who is opposed to the merger
[9:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: LOl, rose build AA planning to do this, she started all this years ago
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: who says we don’t like AA?
[9:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but that doesnt matter now. ill shut up
[9:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: moving on
[9:31] Carolyn Saarinen: No she did not
[9:32] Imotali Antiesse: Right now I find AA current covenant fits pretty well for its them, would there be changes if merge do happen?
[9:32] Imotali Antiesse: themes
[9:32] Solomon Mosely: i think its just a few people with personal agendas, some elitist mind about cds, but hardly worth being the leading voices for cds
[9:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Well, I know she did, but its neither here nor there, people let it happen.
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: which people, sol?
[9:32] Carolyn Saarinen: She inherited a situation from micael manen . and made it work.
[9:32] Arias Ahren: The things that have been created in AA are physicall magnificant
[9:33] Arias Ahren: They should be embraced and used.
[9:33] Imotali Antiesse: True Arias
[9:33] Solomon Mosely: i dont know mike, doyou ever get that feeeling?
[9:33] Carolyn Saarinen: Far better than he could ever have.
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: hi Gwyn
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: but caro, rose wanted AA to join CDS for a reason. those reasons still stand, don’t they? i’m not sure i understand why AA would want to leave
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Can we not make this about rose or question motives.
[9:33] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t, no, but I’ve heard you talk about elitism before
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyn.
[9:34] Solomon Mosely: yes mike, i just invented the word, it probably doesnt really exist
[9:34] Solomon Mosely: good call
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: quite right tor, i’ll rephrase that
[9:34] Arias Ahren: There are people in AA who feel that they have been kicked around by CDS.
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to know who you are assusing of elitism, if anyone, sol
[9:34] Kaseido Quandry: I think she wanted to merge in order to have access to CDS’s extensive staff – have they gone to work improving conditions for AA citizens?
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: AA chose to join the CDS for several reasons. have those reasons now changed?
[9:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: How has CDS kicked around AA? I would love to know .
[9:34] Arias Ahren: No, I don’t think so Pat
[9:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: facts, examples?
[9:35] Carolyn Saarinen: I don’t know why the merger ever happened. Except for Rose’s idealism. But since she has been thourghly tradduced in the forums lately, she is less idealistic. I was never a convert. I want al-Andakus to be itself.
[9:35] Arias Ahren: I don’t want to mention names
[9:35] Arias Ahren: Cleo
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: Arias, are these peole here, to explan why they feel kicked-around?
[9:35] Arias Ahren: But there are those who feel as if they are second class citizens
[9:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I think both sims are better for the merger.
[9:35] Arias Ahren: No
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: arias, i think we need to hear from the ppl themselves
[9:35] Arias Ahren: and I am sorry for that
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: all this hearsay gets us nowhere
[9:36] Claude Desmoulins: Let me throw something out
[9:36] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Pat
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps it was not so much as a “change” but actually understanding what it is to live together? Sort of like the romance before the marriage cerimony, and then realising it’s not all roses in the first months of mariag?
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, how do we know these alleged people exist?
[9:36] Arias Ahren: Hearsay is not good, I know, but sometimes that is all you have
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: arias, they are adults. they need to speak for themselves
[9:36] Arias Ahren: I am not tying to creat distance, but build bridges
[9:36] Arias Ahren: Yes, you are right pat
[9:37] Carolyn Saarinen: we’re stealing your money for our mad extravagant events aren’t we? Let us go!
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t question your integrity arias
[9:37] Imotali Antiesse: Al-Qantara
[9:37] Kaseido Quandry: I’d just like to hear an expression from a CDS veteran of what *they* see the benefits *to AA* from the merger are
[9:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS has a mission and purpose and a culture. The thrid can change but the first two are essential to what CDS is, and AA coming into us, means they are part of our mission .. Are the people of AA interested in being part of our democratic experiment, or being AA.. the first priority? what is it?
[9:37] Solomon Mosely: well mike, why dont we ask who doesnt feel that way then work from there, sicne the ones who have felt it are so disgusted that they dont even want to look at some people anymore
[9:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: more citizens of a democracy.
[9:37] Solomon Mosely: much less come to meetings
[9:38] Mikelo Serevi: Who doesn’t feel what way, sol?
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: kas, i’m not an AA citizen so how can i say what the benefits of CDS merger are? presumably AA thought there were benefits before teh merger. what were they anticipated to be? what has gone wrong, if anything?
[9:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Seems that the majorit of either group avoids meetings.
[9:39] Mikelo Serevi: How can we address people’s concerns if they don’t air them?
[9:39] Solomon Mosely: cleo, as a democracy, we are flexible to change, this government is what we make it
[9:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: of course.
[9:39] Carolyn Saarinen: You don’t like us. Your old, old political class has never liked us.
[9:39] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, in any negotiation, in any exchange of value, both sides need to know what value it is they’re exchanging
[9:39] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve heard some discussion of what the value to the CDS of AA is or isn’t
[9:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Then AA, with its pple can change the politcal class.
[9:39] Solomon Mosely: damn minorities… hiding ou in small numbers jsut to make things dificult
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: but if nobody here can make the case for the CDS, it leads me to think there isn’t one
[9:40] Arias Ahren: As imperfect as it is, both groups share a love for democratic ideals.
[9:40] Tor Karlsvalt: Running away for that reason doesn’t seem good to me
[9:40] Carolyn Saarinen: There isn’t. CDS is a zombie corpse.
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: kas, do you mean that no one in AA is able to articulate the benefits of remaining in the CDS?
[9:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: liking you isnt the issue
[9:40] Imotali Antiesse: sigh
[9:41] Carolyn Saarinen: What benefits?
[9:41] Kaseido Quandry: no, I mean that no one in the CDS is able to articulate what the CDS has to offer AA
[9:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: do you want to be subjects of the democratic system or not?
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: caro, that’s just rude. no one here is maligning AA in that way
[9:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its a give and take
[9:41] Carolyn Saarinen: YOUR system?
[9:41] Kaseido Quandry: CLEO, neither you nor the CDS has a monopoly on democracy, or its interpretation
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I think AA does benefit from the tradition established in CDS for a citizen owned and administerd sim
[9:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the system
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt: that is good.
[9:41] Arias Ahren: CDS has a history and reputation that in SL remains for the most part good
[9:41] Carolyn Saarinen: Perhaps AA is not malignable?
[9:41] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, there’s an answer! Thank you!
[9:41] Arias Ahren: It has that to offer anyone.
[9:41] Solomon Mosely: wow cleo
[9:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no but it must have a system… dynamic yes but.
[9:42] Patroklus Murakami: LOL @ caro
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think AA needs to realize that Rose might not be able to run it all the time.
[9:42] Carolyn Saarinen: we worked well before CDS. We’ll work afterwards.
[9:42] Claude Desmoulins: I’ve heard that some in aa are uncomfortable with the tone and complexity of CDs politics
[9:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we are all subject to the system if we are citizens
[9:42] Kaseido Quandry: Claude, I think that’s a fair assessment
[9:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS is politics
[9:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if you didnt want politics why did you join?
[9:42] Kaseido Quandry: CLEO, I believe that’s precisely the question
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: Well, have AA citizens joined CDS without voting on the matter?
[9:43] Solomon Mosely: princesss, did you really not hear yourself just then?
[9:43] Carolyn Saarinen: I hearby volunteer to support Rose as Sultana of AA!
[9:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[9:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: THE
[9:43] Mikelo Serevi: Was the merger done over their heads?
[9:43] Solomon Mosely: subjects?
[9:43] Claude Desmoulins: is that accurate?
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There was a vote, Mikelo
[9:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes sol, we are all subjects as citizens of democracy
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 people in the whole of the AA voted against the merger
[9:43] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, so there was support for the merger in AA
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[9:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: even theprincess was a subject to votes etc. systems
[9:44] Carolyn Saarinen: ooh schizo Dear
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:44] Patroklus Murakami: and my point is that AA saw something beneficial to joining with the CDS
[9:44] Patroklus Murakami: so, what has changed?
[9:44] Arias Ahren: Emotions.
[9:44] Patroklus Murakami: apart from the fact that we have found out the other party farts in bed and doesn’t clean up often enough?
[9:44] Mikelo Serevi: That’s a good question, pat
[9:44] Carolyn Saarinen: Don’t ask me, I was always opposed.
[9:44] Lilith Ivory: imo Rose wanted to share the burden of caring for the Sims and this did not happen
[9:45] Patroklus Murakami: indeed caro, you were
[9:45] Mikelo Serevi: hi pip
[9:45] Lilith Ivory: hi Pip
[9:45] Arias Ahren: Hi Pip
[9:45] Carolyn Saarinen: Atill got the stake and kindling?
[9:45] Pip Torok: hi all
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I think Lilith’s got the right of it, which is why I’ve been asking – everybody – for what the *realized* benefits of the merger are
[9:45] Patroklus Murakami reminds everyone to click the recorder to indicate consent for the chat log
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and I think there is the issue of the non-profit not being created.
[9:46] Arias Ahren: Kas: A larger, more powerful and impressive community
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: Arias, that’s fair. Does that translate into improved quality of life?
[9:46] Arias Ahren: No
[9:46] Arias Ahren: Thats another matter
[9:47] Arias Ahren: and we should work to do that
[9:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the closeness of AA to CDS enhances my experience in world in CDS.
[9:47] Patroklus Murakami: at the risk of getting lynched, AA now has the benefit of the CDS system of govnt – elections, exec and legislative branches. it has a stronger guarantee of survival beyond changes in leadership
[9:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I love walking through the sims to AA and vis versa
[9:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it comes down to the question then, does size matter?
[9:47] Carolyn Saarinen: Bollocks
[9:47] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t see how size affects whether a community is worthwhile
[9:47] Arias Ahren: True, Pat
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t forget the financial issues… the CDS had a surplus, but few events and little public space; the AA, by contrast, has a lot of public space and a LOT more events – but was not financially solid. The merger allows both communitis to prosper together and grow…
[9:48] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, that’s good
[9:48] Arias Ahren: And Somewhat true Miklo
[9:48] Pip Torok: Caro … why the “bollocks”
[9:48] Pip Torok: ?
[9:48] Kaseido Quandry: see, now we’re getting somewhere
[9:48] Arias Ahren: I think tat AA has entities that are benificial
[9:48] Carolyn Saarinen: Then let us sink. bad bad AA spending other folk’s money!
[9:48] Imotali Antiesse: Caro
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Possibly Gwyn, but some of the shortfall in AA might be in recoreding tier paymets. And the shortfall seems to narrow as time goes on.
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Caro: a mark of democracies is that they help each other
[9:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: What’s wrong with living within a budget?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fortunatel, yes, Tor. But that wasn’t the case a year ago.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: we are
[9:49] Arias Ahren: Nothing
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: depends on who writes the budget, CLEO
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: don’t forget we have not yet completed the merger. the non-profit has not yet been created and we don’t have a unified rental collection system. those changes will make administration more efficient
[9:50] Arias Ahren: But if I am looking at the figures correctly AA is solvent.
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: ‘Bollocks’ Pip because ‘the CDS system of govt.’ is a mess
[9:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so fix it.
[9:50] Solomon Mosely: and gwen just highlighted specific areas where both could help each other grow
[9:50] Mikelo Serevi: How is it a mess?
[9:50] Pip Torok: I hear reasone to merge, what sre the reasons to separate?
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: AA worked better by itself
[9:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: make a plan to fix it and run for office
[9:50] Pip Torok: do all from AA agree with Caro?
[9:51] Arias Ahren: No, I don’t. Sorry Caro.
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Caro, what does “Better” mean (except for subjective feelings). Can you tag some aspects that were better objectively?
[9:51] Pip Torok: do any from AA agree with Caro?
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: I wasn’t around before, so I can’t address that
[9:51] Carolyn Saarinen: Mikelo, have you ever been to an RA meeting?
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, caro
[9:52] Solomon Mosely: lol, caro
[9:52] Pip Torok: Are you the only one here who’s against, Caro?
[9:52] Solomon Mosely: they totally are, but thats not a problem of the game, but the players
[9:52] Carolyn Saarinen: ‘Better’ in the sense of less acrimonious, more productive.
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: Solomon, it’s that that’s drawn me to a neutral position with respect to the merger
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s a prolem of the RA meetings? But how do these impact the quality of life in the AA? Are there less events, less friends online…?
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: AA jsut accomplished a wonderful Feria
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I think they have been productive
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: OK. More productive. So. What did NOT get done since the merger?
[9:53] Pip Torok: agree with Tor
[9:53] Carolyn Saarinen: My mental healthj!
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I have the same feeling, Tor ‚Äî I never have seen so much accomplished on AA *since* the merger…)
[9:53] Solomon Mosely: well, the merger
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Caro
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: ppl get too fixated on the RA as if it is the be-all and end-all of the CDS. what happens in the exec branch is much more important these days
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn promises to do her religious meetings again to take care of Caro’s mental health
[9:53] Kaseido Quandry: Such as, Pat?
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear hear Pat
[9:54] Carolyn Saarinen: Atheist Gwyn
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: the chancellor has huge powers to get things done
[9:54] Pip Torok: is she, Caro ?
[9:54] Kaseido Quandry: And what’s gotten done?
[9:54] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: that’s the real focus of activity in the cDS
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t beliee in God either, fortnately that has little to do with regilion
[9:54] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Arria
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: the RA is there to pass laws and constituional amendments
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: it’s a legislature, that’s all
[9:55] Pip Torok: well … less acrimony and we’ll all see, Kas…
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: but ppl see it as ‘the main arena’
[9:55] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and participation in the RA is not mandatory is it?
[9:55] Solomon Mosely: who’s running the metanomics in cds now?
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, there was *more* acrimony before?!
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: there was a LOT more acrimony before kas
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: wow, Pat, ok
[9:55] Lilith Ivory: imo the chancellor is a little overworked at the moment, SC just woke up again and the guilt is not able to work propperly also …
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: search for any post by michel manen and you will see what i mean
[9:55] Lilith Ivory: so things happen way to slow in the CDS
[9:56] Lilith Ivory: sorry to say that
[9:56] Arria Perreault: it was always so, Lilith
[9:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia winks
[9:56] Pip Torok: thngs tend to happen slowly in a democracy
[9:56] Mikelo Serevi: What’s the rush?
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Lilith, seems the SC is almost dead.
[9:56] Claude Desmoulins: that’s what I was trying to point out in my post
[9:56] Lilith Ivory: yes but AA was used to something else I think
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Democracy is always slower than non-democracies.
[9:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the SC has always been almost dead.
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Things tend to happen slowly *in this model* – there are many kinds of democracies
[9:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but when its needed its there.
[9:57] Mikelo Serevi: yes, get a monarch and they’ll quickly make up their mind for ou
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kas! So how could we change that?
[9:57] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i don’t think democracy has to be slow.
[9:57] Pip Torok: in SL, Kas? … tell me where…
[9:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hehe
[9:57] Arria Perreault: yes, look the Monastery project: one hand half year to get the homestead sim
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: AA was definitely used to something else, and has its own political culture. its why there is a clash now
[9:57] Arria Perreault: and one month to build it
[9:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia drifts off in a daydream of royalty
[9:57] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, if you’d like a list of vibrant communities in SL, I can certainly get you one
[9:57] Arria Perreault: the barriers did not come from me ….
[9:57] Carolyn Saarinen: Ok. Nothing being done, as usuual. Bye.
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: aah, communities but not democracies kas
[9:58] Pip Torok: democracies are what I mean, kas …
[9:58] Kaseido Quandry: “18th century republic” is not the only form of democracy
[9:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: We cannot be compared to non democratic communities..
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What model would you favour, Kas?
[9:59] Arria Perreault: I think that democracy is slow, but what comes out of a democratic process is better accepted
[9:59] Pip Torok agrees
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m being serious… how can we change the CDS’ model so that is more, mmm, ‘pleasing’?
[9:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia nods
[9:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: good question Gwyn
[9:59] Kaseido Quandry: for a small community in an online environment? I don’t think the model developed for a territorial nation-state with commuication by horseback messenger is necessarily optimal
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve always been pleased with the CDS model, it’s why I moved here
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we already did eliminate factions, made the Exec more powerful, and gave a lot of power to te Regional Committees
[10:00] Solomon Mosely: well, we’re also a mostly volunteer community, you can only get so much done, so fast, for free. especially if people arent super fired up about it
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what should be the next step?
[10:00] Lilith Ivory: I think the model itself is great
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: factions haven’t quite been ‘eliminated’ gwyn
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Lilith. But for the sake of the argument let’s assume that the model is nOT great, since clearly some citizens dislike it.
[10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: We should see how the new way of voting changes CDS.
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Pat ::) You’re right hehe
[10:01] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: We have to give that change time.
[10:01] Pip Torok: as far as being necessary for the RA, they have, Pat
[10:01] Pip Torok: (also they are upheld by the UNHR)
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: true pip, true as far as that goes
[10:01] Arria Perreault: factions will still play a role
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let-s not assume the CDS has a @perfect@ model, but one that camges and adapts according to the wills of its citizens. What would be the next step_
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: _
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
[10:02] Kaseido Quandry: I think Gwyn’s got the right of it- the question is, does each community prefer its own model as it is, or is there the prospect of a superior creative synthesis?
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: Well gwyn, I’ve heard complaints, but no one has said exactly what they want to change
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Mikelo
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The purpose of the Town Hall meeting is to try to figure out *what* to change.
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: Or if anything needs to change
[10:03] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, here’s a question, by way of an answer
[10:03] Arias Ahren: Harmoney needs to change.
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: these town hall meetings were an attempt to find some common ground and include a successful feature of AAs democracy in the larger CDS one. i think they have been successful, particular today’s meeting
[10:03] Pip Torok: in one sense, the RA plus Town-Hall make a synthesis
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, if we can’t find anything *objective* to change, can we try subjective things?)
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pip. Another change towards harmony
[10:03] Kaseido Quandry: for each of you who holds an office in the CDS, how much of your time is spent on the mechanics of government, and how much on building a vibrant and active community? How much on self-referential talking, and anow much on doing?
[10:04] Arias Ahren: Reaching acroos chasums with love in ones hand
[10:04] Claude Desmoulins: do you mean implicit culture?
[10:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia giggles
[10:04] Pip Torok: (nice one, Arias!:)
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: well kas, i see spending time at RA meetings, developing legislative ideas as one form of contribution to our community
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: good question kas.
[10:04] Arria Perreault: Kas, do you believe in a state who does everythig for citizen and pay for every activity?
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: Most of my time in SL is devoted to the CDS
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, no, quite the opposite
[10:05] Arria Perreault: The state is responsible to make good conditions
[10:05] Mikelo Serevi: I stepped up because few else seemed willing
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, yes –
[10:05] Arria Perreault: and we do this in the RA and the exec too
[10:05] Arria Perreault: but we don’t have to pay for every concert and to organize every party
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Kas, in your opinion, we should refrain fro talking so much, and just get things done, riht?
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: and the question is, does participating in CDS politics improve the overall community, or make it worse?
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who decides what to do?
[10:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I think the best thing to do if you are “disgruntled” with our government is to get involved in and with it.
[10:05] Arria Perreault: people are responsible for that
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: i find the notion that ppl who stand for and sit on the RA and exec do not contribute rather offensive
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Cleo: work from within
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree CLeo
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: That is waht AA needs to learn to do.
[10:06] Arria Perreault: there are regional committees for that and also personal initiatives
[10:06] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, you’re welcome to find that offensive. That’s a difference in political valus
[10:06] Mikelo Serevi: I dont understand your question, kas
[10:06] Arria Perreault: I don’t expect anything for the Monastery from the CDS state
[10:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hold me up arias im gonna pass out.
[10:06] Kaseido Quandry: And to answer Gwyn’s question, yes I see a political appratus as parasitic on culture, not as an addition to it
[10:06] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, it’s easy to shoot arrows without taking any responsibility
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: and you have the right to be offensive. but i think that we have to agree to disagree on what ‘contributing’ means
[10:06] Arias Ahren: Her is my hand
[10:07] Arria Perreault: I have only asked for a sim that I have sponsored
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, that’s exactly it
[10:07] Solomon Mosely: except the sim purchase
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, by “political apparatus” you mean having citizens vote for the people who manage their commonly held land, is that it?
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry: and I think that represents a cultural differnce between CDS and AA, right there
[10:07] Arria Perreault: The Monastery costs 0 L$ to CDS and brings venue.
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, no, I mean what gets built on top of that, and what constitutes “management”
[10:08] Pip Torok: if thats so kas, which way do YOU choose?
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami: what would you change then? reduce the size of the RA?
[10:08] Arria Perreault: do you find normal that we pay all AA events, Kas?
[10:08] Arria Perreault: a concert costs between 3000 and 5000 L$
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So… if citizens aren’t allowed to vote and get elected for a body that manages the land on their behalf; and we should talk less and do more; two questions I have then: who does all the work, and how do citizens decide what to do?
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt: The RA size is fine.
[10:08] Solomon Mosely: the sim costs 0 arria? really?
[10:08] Kaseido Quandry: ok, hang on, scrolling back, let me catch up
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: We’re pretty far of topic
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: and yes
[10:09] Arria Perreault: I have even make an addition for all concerts for 2009…
[10:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they tell the dictator?
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, I think what sim managment in an SL community *should* do is provide events
[10:09] Arria Perreault: I want Kas answers
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: as a part of cds, the cds should pay for events
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: who paid for ferria?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: Kas, if we have the money
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: i know cds didnt pay for my musician who played
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: that’s why we pay a premium in tier over standard rental rates
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: and I am *not* saying they should have a monopoly on events
[10:10] Arria Perreault: CDS paid for others, Sol
[10:10] Arria Perreault: look the monthly reports for 2009 and you will see
[10:10] Solomon Mosely: good
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: I do a monthly DJ party on my own property, that I pay for, to meet my neighbors and help build community
[10:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have to operate within a budget not within someones credit card limits.. but we can raise money.. ask vendors to sponsor things.. i have been offering that for ages
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn is still waiting for an answer….
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I bet Rose paid for Ferria
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: Rose did pay for Feria out of her pocket
[10:10] Arria Perreault: Kas, this is the right way, what you do
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: hmm, we are straying a bit off topic. more on the merger and less on events perhaps?
[10:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the wealth of the dictator/ vs. the community budget?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because what I’m hearing is: let’s abolish electing representatives and create an ‘oligarchy’ which manages the sims
[10:11] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, then why am I paying $1000L/month extra to live here?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as this oligarchy regularly meets with the citizens and listens to what they say, we don’t need anything else.
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that what you want?
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think i heard that gwyn.
[10:11] Pip Torok: imo paying for things SL out of ones own pocket is _serious_ …
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: i think some people would prefer that gwyn
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: but it’s not my ideal
[10:11] Arias Ahren: Is their need for some Constutional revisions
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So that’s called Enlightened Absolutism.
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: The trouble with an oligarchy is they don’t have to listen to anyone
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: then they shouldnt have joined a democracy if they wanted an oligarchy
[10:12] Arria Perreault: because, we have to make a reserve for bad periods and to expand and also for some events too
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: Well, yeah cleo
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I wonder if AA feels CDS is an oligarchy.
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: whos subject do you wan tto be
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s the point, Cleo
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: everybody serves somebody
[10:12] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, I agree in principle, though I may disagree as to what a prudent reserve is.
[10:12] Arria Perreault: but I find that using a part of my fees for a weekly event is chocking
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor: good question.
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yeah well.. so let them go
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, you’re avoiding the bigger issue ))
[10:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[10:12] Arria Perreault: and I don’t get anaything for the Monastery
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, then rent your land from Azure Islands – they’re cheap, and they don’t provide services beyond covenant enforcement
[10:13] Solomon Mosely: you got a damn sim arria
[10:13] Solomon Mosely: that we all paid for
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: I moved to a *community* for precisely those things which *create and sustain* community
[10:13] Arria Perreault: I paid for it, SOl
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Sol. Arria paid for it.
[10:13] nohelia Avindar: si me dicen ustedes yo puedo buscar algun concierto con coste cero
[10:13] nohelia’s Google Translator: if I tell you I can find some concert with zero cost
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: and I’m willing to be taxed for expenditures that support community

Permalink.

RA Meeting 25 April 2010

Agenda

I. Concerns of Citizens
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. floor to the citizen

II. ADMIN

a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING(-)

b. 7 day vote (permanent 7 day vote)

IV. NEW ITEMS

a. Budget legislation
b. Report citizenship Commission
c. Report from Town Hall
d. Census
e. Proposed Constitutional Amendment – Campaigning
f. Vote of confidence for Jamie Palisades as new member of the SC
g. Government Communications Bill

V. Concerns of RA Members

VI. Adjournement

Setting Size of RA : postponed to a next meeting
Transcript

[9:00] Arria Perreault: I will put the agenda in the amphora
[9:01] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Carolyn Saarinen (17m)
[9:01] Kaseido Quandry whispers: hey caro!
[9:01] Arria Perreault: Mikelo, I got your card
[9:01] Carolyn Saarinen: Hello Kas
[9:01] Arria Perreault: I will update the agenda (I have forgetten your point)
[9:01] Mikelo Serevi: better late than never, right arria?
[9:01] Pip Torok: hi Caro …
[9:01] Carolyn Saarinen: hi all
[9:01] Mikelo Serevi: I meant to give it three days ago…
[9:02] Pip Torok: Arria ive been giving copies of the forums agenda for today … (sorry if that was pout-of-order)
[9:03] Arria Perreault: I am updating it with the report of the citizenship commission
[9:03] Mikelo Serevi: rap his knuckles! 😉
[9:03] Patroklus Murakami: lol @ caro
[9:04] Patroklus Murakami: of course, it’s not just *my* money….
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: for a moment, I thought maybe you two had shacked up
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: what a lovely thought
[9:05] Carolyn Saarinen: Nah I bought two vultures instead 😉
[9:05] Arria Perreault: sorry for the delay
[9:05] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the amphora
[9:05] Pip Torok: thanks …
[9:06] CDS Official Amphora owned by Arria Perreault gave you ‘RA 25 april 2010 – Agenda’ ( slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/15/165/42 ).
[9:06] Arria Perreault: First point: concerns of citizen
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: um, are we quorate yet?
[9:06] Carolyn Saarinen: blimey who’s lost a dog?
[9:06] Arria Perreault: no
[9:06] Arria Perreault: we are 5
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: not that that should stop us hearing citizens concerns
[9:07] Arria Perreault: but there is a 7-day vote
[9:07] Arias Ahren: I have a question?
[9:07] Arria Perreault: and yes, we start with citizen concerns
[9:07] Arria Perreault: 15 minutes
[9:07] Arria Perreault: please click on the recorder
[9:07] notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: i think arias had a question?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:08] Arria Perreault: Arias, you have the floor
[9:08] Arias Ahren: People are announcing their canidacies for the RA
[9:09] Arias Ahren: Is there a central point for them to do that so that we can better determin who is running?
[9:09] Mikelo Serevi: I believe you are sitting next to her
[9:10] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:10] Pip Torok: lol
[9:10] Arias Ahren: Delia?
[9:10] Arria Perreault: Maybe Delia can tel you something
[9:10] Arias Ahren: Please.
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: Delia might still be AFK?
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: all nominations go to delia as dean of the SC by 20 april
[9:10] Arria Perreault: 30 april
[9:11] Mikelo Serevi: d’oh
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: the sc then announces the list of candidates
[9:11] Pip Torok: Arias … one possibility might be the thread that Delia started inviting candidates
[9:11] Arias Ahren: I see. Thank you
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: sorry 30 april
[9:11] Mikelo Serevi: 😉
[9:11] Arias Ahren: And then are they posted in a particular place?
[9:11] Pip Torok: yes ..
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: on the forums, if you dare to look at them!
[9:11] Kaseido Quandry: aha, found it: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2810
[9:11] Pip Torok: (now now, Pat!:)
[9:11] Arias Ahren: I have been reading the forms
[9:12] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:13] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Lilith Ivory (19m)
[9:13] Lilith Ivory: Hi there
[9:13] Arria Perreault: maybe Delia can add soemthing later
[9:13] Carolyn Saarinen: HI Lilith
[9:13] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
[9:13] Pip Torok: hi Lilith!
[9:13] Arria Perreault: we have a quorum now
[9:13] Arria Perreault: other concerns?
[9:13] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: StuiChicanne Darkstone (19m)
[9:13] Carolyn Saarinen: Stui is in-world too
[9:13] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:13] Mikelo Serevi: speak of the devil
[9:14] Mikelo Serevi: 🙂
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening
[9:14] Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
[9:14] You decline Dublin 3 – New Fibber Magees, Dublin 3 (124, 218, 31) from A group member named Kennef Riggles.
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[9:14] Pip Torok: good evening, Stui …
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: did you miss me today ?
[9:14] Arria Perreault: we are in citizen concerns
[9:14] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I rather did
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m looking for concerned citizens
[9:14] Pip Torok: (evening is the UK word for Morning btw:)
[9:15] Arria Perreault: does anyone has a concern?
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it rezzed here I’d be seeing the concern
[9:15] Carolyn Saarinen: BST 17:15
[9:15] Arias Ahren: Citizenshi
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha there’s Delia
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m concerned she seems to have fallen asleep
[9:15] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Imotali Antiesse (15m)
[9:15] Arias Ahren: Citizenship
[9:15] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:15] Arria Perreault: ok Arias
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ah there’s Kaseido too
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui!
[9:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Arias is over there
[9:16] Arria Perreault: Arias, do you have a question about citizenship?
[9:16] Arias Ahren: There have been a number concerned
[9:16] Arria Perreault: Hi Imotali
[9:17] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Arria
[9:17] Arias Ahren: It seems the definition might be in flux
[9:17] Arias Ahren: Land ownership, groups, etc.
[9:17] Pip Torok: hi Imotali
[9:17] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Pip
[9:18] Arria Perreault: Arias, we will talk about that later in the meeting and you can talk there
[9:18] Arria Perreault: I suggest we go further
[9:18] Arria Perreault: if you agree
[9:19] Arias Ahren: I missed a bit Arria
[9:19] Arria Perreault: We have an heavy program today
[9:19] Arias Ahren: Okay
[9:19] Arria Perreault: we can set some priorities
[9:19] Arria Perreault: two informations first
[9:20] Arria Perreault: Our Chancellor, Sonja Strom, cannot attend the meeting today for rl reasons
[9:21] Arria Perreault: Jamie Palisades was informed by Delia and by meabout the vote of today
[9:21] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Ulysse Alexandre (19m)
[9:22] Arria Perreault: Delia told me he intents to come, but he is currently not oline
[9:22] Pip Torok: hi Ulysse
[9:22] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Pip
[9:22] Arria Perreault: I suggest we take this point only if Jamie is there
[9:23] Mikelo Serevi: you mean the adding him to the SC point?
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Patrolkus has asked in the forum to postpone te point regarding the size of the RA
[9:23] Arria Perreault: yes, Mikelo
[9:24] Arria Perreault: do you want to follow this agenda or do you suggest changes?
[9:24] Pip Torok: i’m happy to accept …
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: happy to accept, lots to do today
[9:24] Mikelo Serevi: It seems fine to me
[9:24] Arria Perreault: (I have to apologize deeply. I have forgetten the in-world notices)
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: yes fine for me
[9:25] Patroklus Murakami: i can send them arria
[9:25] Arria Perreault: yes, thank you Patroklus
[9:25] Arria Perreault: I am really sorry
[9:25] Mikelo Serevi: I’m sorry too, I thought of them and didn’t say anything :-@
[9:25] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Sorayah Sarrasine (18m)
[9:25] Patroklus Murakami: but i can’t add landmarks which will annoy some ppl
[9:25] Patroklus Murakami: anyone know how to in viewer 2?
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, it’s still a prob for the v2 viewer?
[9:26] Arria Perreault: yes, LM is a good idea
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: I can do it if you like
[9:26] Arria Perreault: (I can give the floor to some citizen at the end, if they have concerns)
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: got it 🙂
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[9:27] Arria Perreault: so we follow the agenda
[9:27] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[9:27] You decline Praetorium, Colonia Nova (15, 173, 42) from A group member named Patroklus Murakami.
[9:27] Arria Perreault: Timo Gufler cannot attend the meeting today and he has asked for a 7 days vote
[9:28] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING(-)
[9:28] Arria Perreault: b. 7 day vote (permanent 7 day vote)
[9:28] You decline Praetorium, Colonia Nova (15, 173, 42) from A group member named Patroklus Murakami.
[9:29] Arria Perreault: As far as I know, there is no proposal about that question
[9:29] Arria Perreault: I have started a discussion in the forums, as we decided it
[9:29] Arria Perreault: I think we got few feedbacks
[9:30] Mikelo Serevi: We had discussed it on the past, and it was already the de facto policy, right?
[9:30] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2779
[9:30] Arria Perreault: it’s different now
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: wasn’t this stui’s idea that we have a 7-day vote every time? regardless of whether it is requested or not?
[9:31] Pip Torok: It’s possible that the present arrangement of agreeing 7-days on meeting-days is sufficient
[9:31] Arria Perreault: a RA member would have 7 days of reflexion to vote
[9:31] Arria Perreault: it was an idea of Stui
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: i agree pip. but is there a proposal for us to consider and vote on?
[9:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did make a proposal on this one yes 🙂
[9:31] Arria Perreault: do you have the text of your proposal? or a motion?
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well my proposal was that people get automatic 7 days from an RA meeting to read the transcript if not attended or if they were present to amend their vote to suit new findings
[9:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the present system of set in stone from the RA seat….
[9:33] Arria Perreault: do you see this text as a motion?
[9:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it just seems to lack the correct consideration due to the gravity of the decisions
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: i’m ready to vote on stui’s proposal
[9:34] Arria Perreault: do you second it?
[9:34] Pip Torok: me too
[9:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Anyone to second my proposal ?
[9:34] Kaseido Quandry: this seems a recipe for influence peddling, governmental secrecy and corruption
[9:34] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Jayme Mistwalker (18m)
[9:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or for finding more information
[9:34] Arria Perreault: we have this point since 3 meetings, Kas
[9:35] Arria Perreault: we have asked people in the forums
[9:35] Pip Torok sympathises with kas’POV
[9:35] Carolyn Saarinen: I haven’t seen much response in the forums
[9:35] Arria Perreault: it is time to take a decision
[9:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh I have one amendment to make
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: if there is no seconder, the proposal falls
[9:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that we set a minimum attendance of meetings rate
[9:36] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Jayme Mistwalker (14m)
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to ensure people do come to RA
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: like a quorum?
[9:36] Carolyn Saarinen: This is a motion to give absent RA members an automatic 7 day vote yes?
[9:36] Arria Perreault: we have already the rule of the quorum
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so that in a term
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: members of the RA must attend a certain percentage of meetings
[9:36] Arria Perreault: I see
[9:36] Arria Perreault: equivalent to the current quorum?
[9:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there is no point in them taking the position to never turn up
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: But then we’d have to track it
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: our meetings have to happen here not just in the forum
[9:37] Pip Torok: no seconder yet so proposal cd still fall
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there are some who turn up every week
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and some who haven’t been seen for donkeys
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and well it seems something like a wasted vote for the people who elected the absentees
[9:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou to Lilith for pointing out my oversight on this one 🙂
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: there is no second for the motion, in the absence of that i suggest we move on
[9:38] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:38] Pip Torok agrees
[9:38] Mikelo Serevi agrees with pat
[9:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone to second my proposal ?
[9:38] Arria Perreault: no second
[9:39] Lilith Ivory: second
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: let’s vote
[9:39] Arria Perreault: ok, we vote
[9:39] Pip Torok: nay
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: could we have the motion clearly stated stui?
[9:39] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[9:39] Carolyn Saarinen: please
[9:39] Arria Perreault: do you want the exact text?
[9:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
[9:39] Mikelo Serevi: for the record, good idea
[9:39] Arria Perreault: Stui, repeat your exact text, so we know what we vote
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a) no need for request for 7 day vote as it is an automatic
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: b) if you attend the meeting you get 7 days to consider your stance and fact find
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: c) if you didn’t attend you get 7 days to fact find and read the transcript of the meeting and vote
[9:41] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we vote now
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: d) there is a minimum attendance rate percentage for people to prevent people NEVER coming here
[9:41] Pip Torok: nay
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[9:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:41] Carolyn Saarinen: abstain, I think this needs work.
[9:42] Arria Perreault: Imotali?
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: it’s also turned into two proposals with d
[9:42] Imotali Antiesse: ok, aye
[9:42] Patroklus Murakami: two proposals in one 🙂 still nay to both
[9:42] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Sorayah Sarrasine (19m)
[9:42] Pip Torok: nay to both from me as well
[9:43] Arria Perreault: Imotali?
[9:43] Imotali Antiesse: i said, aye?
[9:43] Arria Perreault: (I take the vote for both points)
[9:43] Arria Perreault: sorry
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: she voted aye
[9:43] Arria Perreault: I vote nay
[9:44] Arria Perreault: 3 aye, 4 nay, 1 abst
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so it rests on Timo’s vote then I suppose
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: his 7 day
[9:44] Arria Perreault: the motion did not carry, but we have a 7-day vote
[9:44] Patroklus Murakami: all absent members get 7-day
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at least it’s hopeful 🙂
[9:45] Arria Perreault: if Timo says “aye2, it will be 4:4
[9:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what a conundrum
[9:45] Lilith Ivory: I thought only the ones get 7 days who asked Arria before?
[9:45] Arria Perreault: he asked
[9:46] Mikelo Serevi: or is the de facto that one needs to request?
[9:46] Patroklus Murakami: no, all those absent get a vote if someone requests a 7-day vote
[9:46] Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on
[9:46] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[9:46] Patroklus Murakami: we have a lot ot consider today
[9:46] Patroklus Murakami: *to
[9:46] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:46] Arria Perreault: we goes further
[9:46] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS
[9:47] Arria Perreault: a. Budget legislation
[9:48] Arria Perreault: During the last meeting, we talked about the financial issues of CDS. I have proposed I will make a proposal for a legislation
[9:48] Arria Perreault: I have published it today in the forum
[9:48] Arria Perreault: (a bit late)
[9:48] Arria Perreault: Sudane has also published an interesting report
[9:48] Carolyn Saarinen: link please
[9:48] Arria Perreault: I will give the 2 links
[9:49] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2818
[9:49] Arria Perreault: my proposal of Bill
[9:50] Arria Perreault: this proposal is mainly about our process in the RA
[9:50] Arria Perreault: but I have integrated the idea of Sudane for a Finacial Commission
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: This also creates ANOTHER branch of government!
[9:51] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia (13m)
[9:51] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2816
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: well, it’s more like a committee
[9:51] Pip Torok: disagree … all decisions have a financial element …
[9:51] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2816
[9:51] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. not really. it’s more a finance committee to help sudane and provide more sets of eyes on the figures
[9:51] Arria Perreault: It’s not another Branch
[9:52] Arria Perreault: it is in the Executive
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: sudane has been requesting something like this for years
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who can sit on the committee
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ?
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and how can the committee ensure it serves all aspects of the budget ?
[9:53] Pip Torok: I suggest that Sudane as Treasurer invites citizens onto it
[9:53] Arria Perreault: The Executive wil organize this Commission
[9:53] Arria Perreault: 1. The Executive Branch presents to the RA a budget with all incomes and expenses not later than the 2nd month of the current term.
2. The Executive Branch presents a report about CDS finance of the former term not later than the 2nd month of the current term. The report is published on the CDS Portal.
3. The Executive Branch creates a Financial Commission. This Commission helps the Executive Team to make the budget and the final financial report of the term. The Treasurer is member ex officio of the Financial Commission.
[9:53] Arria Perreault: I could change and write:
[9:53] Arria Perreault: The Treasurer is chair of the Financial Commission
[9:54] Arria Perreault: The idea of this legislation is the following:
[9:54] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia (19m)
[9:54] Pip Torok: … because it makes sense that members have some backgroup in Finance and/or Accountancy
[9:54] Pip Torok: *ground
[9:54] Arria Perreault: The Executive informs the RA and all the CDS about the budget
[9:55] Arria Perreault: at the beginning of the term
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: i’d prefer someone apart from th Treasurer appoint the members. sudane is completely trustworthy but imagine if we had a corrupt treasurer. would you wnat them to appoint members of this committee?
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all each section expenditure should be protected by a person who will ensure that each aspect is heard after all we couldn’t realistically have a committee that lacks balance and expect a good result.
[9:55] Arria Perreault: The Executive makes also a report at the end of the Term
[9:55] Mikelo Serevi: That’s a good point, pat
[9:55] Pip Torok: agree as long as qualified ppl find their way onto it …
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: sudane is on her way. i asked her if she could come
[9:55] Arria Perreault: what do you propose, Pat?
[9:56] Arria Perreault: ok, we wait for her
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: oh, i think the chancellor could appoint the members
[9:56] Lilith Ivory: Sudane could suggest them and we vote
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think it should be appointments from more than one person
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to avoid bias
[9:56] Carolyn Saarinen: why is that better than the Treasurer doing it? it’s still one person’s decision
[9:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: shes not suposed to have any power
[9:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: oops sorry
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: checks and balances caro
[9:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i thought i was in IM
[9:57] Lilith Ivory giggles
[9:57] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Sudane Erato (19m)
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: hi sudane, we are just plotting against you 🙂
[9:57] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I believe that to have one person in appointments is likely to lead to the greater possibility of cronyism
[9:58] Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
[9:58] Carolyn Saarinen: I don’t see that that answers my question Pat OR your own earlier point
[9:58] Pip Torok: hi Sudane (looking sheepish!)
[9:58] Arria Perreault: Hi SUdane
[9:58] Delia Lake is assuming that the RA has checked this proposal against the Constitution and NL 5-5 Treasurer Act
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not pointing fingers but showing a sense of scope for the possibility
[9:58] Carolyn Saarinen: Of course, you could just give the money to me 😉
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i thought we already did? 🙂
[9:59] Arria Perreault: portal.slcds.info/index.php
[9:59] Carolyn Saarinen: Suuuure
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: we are discussing arria’s proposal at the link indicated sudane
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami goes to look at the Constitution and NL 5-5
[10:00] Arria Perreault: My proposal:
[10:00] Arria Perreault: 1. The Executive Branch presents to the RA a budget with all incomes and expenses not later than the 2nd month of the current term.
2. The Executive Branch presents a report about CDS finance of the former term not later than the 2nd month of the current term. The report is published on the CDS Portal.
3. The Executive Branch creates a Financial Commission. This Commission helps the Executive Team to make the budget and the final financial report of the term. The Treasurer is member ex officio of the Financial Commission.
[10:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (81, 103, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: We could go point to point
[10:00] Arria Perreault: any problem with point 1?
[10:01] Lilith Ivory: no
[10:01] Imotali Antiesse: 4) To maintain a financial system in a manner consistent with RL standard accounting practices, using standard double-entry bookkeeping principles.
[10:01] Arria Perreault: (it fixes the current practice
[10:01] Arria Perreault: Imotali, I note your amendment
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: imotali, i think that’s already in the Treasurer’s duties in NL 5-5
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so long as we don’t have an unbalanced committee
[10:02] Sudane Erato: sorry… for which period does #1 refer to?
[10:02] Imotali Antiesse: oh Im just copied it from there
[10:02] Arria Perreault: the current term
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the emphasis should be put upon one person to argue their section
[10:03] Arria Perreault: any problem with point 2?
[10:03] Carolyn Saarinen: no
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: no problem
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: looks good
[10:03] Lilith Ivory: nope
[10:03] Arria Perreault: we go to point 3
[10:03] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Noel Claremont (19m)
[10:03] Sudane Erato: well… re #2, the executive branch publsihes a financial report every month
[10:04] Arria Perreault: Sudane, I know. But I have found your report over several month very good
[10:04] Sudane Erato: i’d be happy to explain it each month…
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well one can be consolidated into the other over time
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I thin k it’s useful to have the view of the financial management of the Exectuutive for one term
[10:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you have the monthly ones it’s just compiling to make a bigger one
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: this would be a summary report for the entire previous term. i’d be happy to hear from you on this each month sudane. that’s a great offer and idea
[10:05] Sudane Erato: sure… thats np
[10:05] Pip Torok agrees
[10:05] Arria Perreault: I think your model was good, especially with the graphics
[10:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well we could do monthly, half term and full term
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: yes it was very clear sudane. thanks for putting that together
[10:06] Sudane Erato: yw 🙂
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with sudane’s agreement
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i agree with stui
[10:06] Arria Perreault: the only question is how is appointed the commission
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: commission=finance committee
[10:06] Sudane Erato: i was happy to see that Tor volunteered
[10:06] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:07] Pip Torok: I propose that Chancellor and Treasurer jointly recommend members to the RA
[10:07] Arria Perreault: all agree?
[10:07] Lilith Ivory: yes
[10:07] Imotali Antiesse: yes
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then it gives the financial ouwell I pretty much said that so I better agree 🙂
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh *LOL*
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: fine by me. there’s nothing to stop the exec from doing this already but, why not?
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: half of two thoughts
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: does anyone have concerns over the potential lack of bias that could be arrived at ?
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: bad phrasing
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: isn’t lack of bias a good thing?
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: lack of bias? not sure i follow u
[10:09] Pip Torok: (lol)
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was bad phrasing
[10:09] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[10:09] Imotali Antiesse: aha
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[10:09] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: subtract the lack *LOL*
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in other words how do you propose that people ensure that all aspects are protected
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: well this is not exactly power, it’s reporting
[10:10] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Tor Karlsvalt (18m)
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: i agree with stui again. we should look at how ppl are appointed carefully
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes but the report influences heavily
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: we have this much money, we can spend this much
[10:10] Pip Torok: the fact of having chancellor and Treasurer agreeing and RA approving SHOULD obviate bias imho
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: right now we’re flying blind
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi agrees with pip
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so if you can get a proponent for each section
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so the committee is definitely balanced
[10:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m happy
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: my other concern though is that too complex a process is too much bureaucracy. if we have to have nominations and approvals it will be like the SC 😉
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, good point
[10:12] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Solomon Mosely (19m)
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: #3 seems to cover it adequately, imo
[10:12] Pip Torok: though i work is carried out expeditiously .. the possibility is lessened
[10:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: depends upon the aptitudes or interests of the appointed doesn’t it ?
[10:13] Arria Perreault: we can approuve them in a group
[10:13] Arria Perreault: I have update the proposal
[10:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it wouldn’t really be worthwhile to have a group made up of people who are only interested in the politics or only interested in the events etc etc
[10:14] Arria Perreault: 3. The Chancellor and the Treasurer recommand to the RA the members of the Financial Committee. The RA approuves the members of the Committee. This Commission helps the Executive Team to make the budget and the final financial report of the term. The Treasurer is member ex officio of the Financial Committee.
[10:14] Pip Torok: sounds fine by me
[10:14] Arria Perreault: 3. The Chancellor and the Treasurer recommand to the RA the members of the Financial Committee. The RA approuves the members of the Committee. This Committee helps the Executive Team to make the budget and the final financial report of the term.
[10:14] Arria Perreault: the right version
[10:15] Mikelo Serevi: I like this version. It could result in delays, but does balance the power of choosing members
[10:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I still want a bit of bias in there *LOL*
[10:16] Arria Perreault: either we vote it now or we publish it in the forums for a review and we vote next time
[10:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can’t beat a bit of bias
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: i think this sounds about right. i would prefer to vote on it at our next meeting though
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: so that ppl have time to consider it
[10:16] Arria Perreault: me too
[10:16] Pip Torok: (great alliteration, Stui!:)
[10:16] Carolyn Saarinen: we aren’t designing Chanel dresses Stui 😉
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: both works for me
[10:17] Arria Perreault: I propose the following: I will publish this version on the forum and we vote it next time
[10:17] Arria Perreault: do you agree?
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: agreed
[10:17] Mikelo Serevi: ok arria
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: yes
[10:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Caro… I wonder if we’d agree on the designs more tho 🙂
[10:17] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:18] Arria Perreault: next point
[10:18] Arria Perreault: b. Report citizenship Commission
[10:18] Carolyn Saarinen: More Vionnet anyway Stui
[10:18] Carolyn Saarinen: 😉
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, we had another meeting last week, to sum up the discussions we’ve had
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: Imissed an note about the last meeting 🙁
[10:18] Arria Perreault: Mikelo, can you explane the results of the commissision, while I put your report in the amphora?
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Was there a transcript of last meeting ?
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve tried to listen to where people are at on this issue
[10:20] Mikelo Serevi: Opinions seem to vary less than I would have thought, most apear to be for a one land parcel = one citizen model
[10:20] Mikelo Serevi: In the case where exeptions are allowed, no one seems able to come to any ageement at all at all
[10:20] Arria Perreault: you can take the proposal in the amphory
[10:21] Mikelo Serevi: This leads me to think there should be limited exceptions, if any
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: So I made a 3-point proposal, which I guess is in the amphory now
[10:22] CDS Official Amphora owned by Arria Perreault gave you ‘citizen_definition_proposal’ ( slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/15/165/42 ).
[10:22] Arria Perreault: yes, it is
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: I’ll put it in chat also
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: what about the people who are citizens only due to group membership?
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: is there a grandfathering?
[10:22] Solomon Mosely raises hand
[10:23] Arria Perreault: A person can get citizenship in the following ways:
1. Become the sole owner of a parcel of land in CDS or AA
2. Be the founder/group owner of a group which owns a parcel of land in CDS or AA.
3. Perform other services for the CDS, such as building, to gain citizenship for a 6-month term. Appropriate services will be determined by the RA and/or SC.
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: i think we would need a transition plan if we were to agree this
[10:23] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:23] Mikelo Serevi: Arria beat me to it, so there it is
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: i think grandfathering for ever and a day could be unfair. but we should provide for ppl so they can get citizenship under any new rules
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: There is a bit of a discrep on this one
[10:24] Pip Torok agrees with Pat
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the citizens didn’t know about the final meeting
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: ty to mikelo for his work on putting this together though and for running the meetings
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so could not attend to chip in
[10:24] Mikelo Serevi: We could set a date for this to take effect, giving people a chance to comply
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: yes, I agree with Stui
[10:24] Delia Lake: I did not know about the final meeting as I would have been sure to attend if I had.
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and has there been a transcript foe the meeting ?
[10:24] Kaseido Quandry: me too
[10:24] Arria Perreault: I would add a 4th point: 4. The Executive maintain a list of citizen approuved by the SC at least once a term, before the election, and published on the CDS portal.
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: same here Delia
[10:24] Mikelo Serevi: I had a brainstorming meeting before, and we discussed this in the RA as well
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: also the groups should be invited to attent the meetings
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but when was the general invite sent out ?
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: i think the exec is already supposed to do this once a month arria! 🙂
[10:25] Delia Lake: I attended the first meeting
[10:25] Mikelo Serevi: A few weeks ago now
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and where is the transcript ?
[10:25] Pip Torok: may I suggest 210 days before the election” to make it precise?
[10:25] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:25] Pip Torok: *”10 days etc
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the lack of transcript has choked effective feedback and debate
[10:25] Mikelo Serevi: the last meeting was a discussion of the committee, not a public meeting
[10:26] Imotali Antiesse: The first meeting we had few of us don’t agree to 2nd proposal.
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the whole committee wasn’t there
[10:26] Delia Lake: so there was only 1 public meeting?
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where was AP ?
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s rather a big issue to be dealt with in this manner
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you do realise the full implications ?
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did rather represent some
[10:26] Mikelo Serevi: it was over three hours, that public meeting
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I have since held an independent meeting
[10:27] Lilith Ivory: I asked for an invitation to the citizenship meeting last sunday but di not get an invitation
[10:27] Arria Perreault: Stui, it’s a proposal
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the feeling was much different to your representation in the proposal I am afraid
[10:27] Arria Perreault: The group had the mission to come back with a proposal
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: it’s a proposal for discussion. so let’s discuss the proposal, rather than the process?
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I don’t believe it was given adequate airing
[10:27] Pip Torok: did your meeting have a transcript, Stui?
[10:27] Mikelo Serevi: yes, we were not charged with holding public meetings, though I did do that to get feedback
[10:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no but mine was not a meeting of a commission
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: we can also decide whether it needs further discussion. i think it probably does
[10:28] Arria Perreault: we have to be constructive now
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it had no RA relevance
[10:28] Lilith Ivory: it absolutely does Pat
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was purely for the sake of discussion that has been rather choked up by the approach given to this matter by the commission
[10:28] Carolyn Saarinen: we need to put this before the citizens
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: i’m inclined to agree with you lilith. but let’s discuss the issues shall we?
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as a member of the commission I have attempted to bring it for discussion
[10:28] Lilith Ivory: sure 🙂
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in two methods
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: through the grp chat
[10:29] Delia Lake: this would be a Constitutional ammendment?
[10:29] Arria Perreault: I think this proposal has soem interesting points and they come from the public meeting
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and thru the STH
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: rather than complaining about who got invited to which meeting. we r in a meeting now, let’s discuss the points raised
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder about how point 3 would work in practice
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and further exclude the citizens from the process
[10:29] Mikelo Serevi: I made it as simple as possible
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ?
[10:29] Arria Perreault: we discuss point to point now
[10:30] Mikelo Serevi: Good idea, Arria, #1 seems to be widely supported
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: i can see how it might be useful. but i wonder what happens if ppl promise to do work for the cDs but then don’t deliver?
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this proposal lacks scope
[10:30] Lilith Ivory: we have to find a propper way for group member to stay citizens
[10:30] Arria Perreault: There are 3 ways to become a citizen
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it lacks adequate time before the citizens
[10:30] Arria Perreault: 1. Become the sole owner of a parcel of land in CDS or AA
[10:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you will result in removing citizenship from people who haven’t been able to speak about it fully
[10:30] Arria Perreault: any remark on that?
[10:30] Pip Torok: imo if the sc and/or ra do their job then 30 will work
[10:30] Arria Perreault: I think it’s the current practice
[10:30] Pip Torok: *3)
[10:31] Lilith Ivory: we would have to provide more inexpensive parcels first
[10:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and this proposal is a de facto discriminatory legislation that attacks groups by their very nature
[10:31] Carolyn Saarinen: I don’t think #1 is controversial, but 2 7 3 bear scrutiny.
[10:31] Arria Perreault: yes, Lilith, we can do that
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami agrees with caro
[10:31] Carolyn Saarinen: Blimey!
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: i know!
[10:31] Arria Perreault: 2. Be the founder/group owner of a group which owns a parcel of land in CDS or AA.
[10:31] Pip Torok disagrees profoundly with Stui
[10:31] Mikelo Serevi: Well, #3 is designed to allow for peopel who may not want to pay for land, or who aren’t able to pay
[10:32] Arria Perreault: this is new
[10:32] Delia Lake: in the amphora, Claude
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you may
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but until I see the citizens disagreeing with me
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: presumably, 2 also means that ppl need to continue to pay tier?
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then I will hold my tongue
[10:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not before
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it is possible that a group buy a parcel and the group owner is de facto citizen
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: a lack of disagreement tells us nothgni, stui
[10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo if the process had been open enough
[10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you would have gotten your disagreement
[10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I aired disagreement
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: you don’t get to stay a citizen just by founding a group i assume/
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: ?
[10:33] Carolyn Saarinen: How many ‘owners’ can a group have and how many groups can a person join?
[10:33] Pip Torok: Arriai suggest thats the same as a citizen hving 2 or more plots
[10:33] Arria Perreault: Stui, I think we will discuss this proposal now
[10:33] Mikelo Serevi: the group would have to own land
[10:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yet you brought this proposal before the RA anyway
[10:33] Pip Torok: *Arria, i suggest … etc
[10:33] Arria Perreault: what do you mean, Pip?
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: stui, try to focus on the merits of the proposal itself. it’s more constructive
[10:34] Kaseido Quandry: (I own two plots, say – one in my own name and one as owenr of a group of me and my alts. Instant two votes)
[10:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would see the merits more easily if I didn’t know the backdrop of disagreement that is being ignored
[10:34] Mikelo Serevi: I considered leaving #2 out entirely, how do people feel about this?
[10:35] Carolyn Saarinen: Kas that’s what worries me!
[10:35] Arria Perreault: I don0t think someone can have several votes, Kas 😉
[10:35] Patroklus Murakami: oh no kas 🙂 i think it should be own at least one plot = one citzen = one vote = one RL person
[10:35] Mikelo Serevi: well, kasiedo, currently we trust that people won’t cheat with alts, they can anyway
[10:35] Carolyn Saarinen: As alts they can Arria.
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: that’s not what this says, Arria and Pat
[10:35] Pip Torok: Arria I was referring to your statement it is possible that a group buy a parcel and the group owner is de facto citizen” …..
[10:35] Carolyn Saarinen: And by deeding one plot to a group all ‘owners’ get a vote
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i think it could be clearer kas, but i read it differently from you
[10:36] Pip Torok: ah ! .. sorry I misread your ststement … I withdraw it …
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all owners could deed to groups
[10:36] Arria Perreault: ok. it was only a free transcription of the proposal
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is within their rights
[10:36] Mikelo Serevi: Well, limiting #2 to one person prevents the loophole of a group getting more votes per parcel
[10:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that would rather make the issue somewhat null
[10:37] Arria Perreault: I think a plot can give only one vote
[10:37] Patroklus Murakami: personally, i’d prefer to abolish group owned land (with safeguards for citizens who derive citizenship that way).
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: with this proposal alone in AA 17 people might loose their citizenship …
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I thought the law was by square metres ?
[10:37] Carolyn Saarinen: once one person starts giving a friend a vote by deeding land to a group it would disenfranchise those who did not.
[10:37] Patroklus Murakami: group-owned land is a nightmare for understanding who is/is not a citizen
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: not to mention the groups in our old Sims
[10:37] Pip Torok: Claude, then it was ALL members of a group that cd have a vote …
[10:37] Arria Perreault: 17, Lilith?
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: yes
[10:38] Arria Perreault: can you explane this to us?
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: how do you get that number lilith? it’s very useful to know what the impact might be
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, maybe instead of trying to abolish *one of the fundamental organizng principles of SL,* change your own rules…
[10:38] Arria Perreault: does it concern one or several groups?
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: which group is it?
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: I asked Rose how many citizens of AA are only citizens due to groupmembership and she said it would be 17
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: out of 60
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: pfft kas, that *was* our rule before the group land ownership act
[10:39] Arria Perreault: and now they are citizen?
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s trashing a quarter of a sims voting citizens
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: seems like it
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: well, we had better consider them before we make any changes
[10:39] Mikelo Serevi: so who are they, what group?
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can’t realistically do that prior to the merger vote
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: I agree Pat
[10:39] Imotali Antiesse: I have 43 members with AIC holding Summer Palace.
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: i expect there will be some from the ‘old’ CDS sims in the same situation
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: without losing the AA sims their population on account of a CDS wide ruling
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: I don´t have that info yet
[10:40] Arria Perreault: these 17 people pay 100 L$ a month?
[10:40] Lilith Ivory: just wanted to know about how many people we are talking here
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with all due respect Pat
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: CDS old sims
[10:40] Lilith Ivory: and I´m sure there are more in the old CDS Sims
[10:40] Arria Perreault: you are right Lilith, I prefer to talk about facts too
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aren’t potentially able to leave CDS
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami: with all due respect stui
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: nm
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the merger gives AA a little of a diifferent slant to this
[10:41] Arria Perreault: SUdane, do you know how many 100 L$ citizen we have in CDS old sims?
[10:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can’t cost AA citizens if it hasn’t yet chosen to remain in CDS
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: sudane left
[10:41] Lilith Ivory: if we go with the one group one vote rule we have to provide a way for people to vote
[10:41] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: I have to ask, is it fair to allow someone to vote based on group membership?
[10:42] Pip Torok: I would say no …
[10:42] Mikelo Serevi: My proposal is intended to address this difficult question
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: thinking about chitizenship fee or something like that
[10:42] Patroklus Murakami: those are our current rules mikelo
[10:42] Arria Perreault: does the SC knows that, as they review all the list?
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have to ask how proportional the proposal is
[10:42] Patroklus Murakami: but i wonder if the rules are being fairly applied
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Delia, Claude?
[10:42] Patroklus Murakami: in Al Andalus
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can’t get 13 people to agree to one point unanimously
[10:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d love to see how you expect a group to do the same without disharmony
[10:43] Delia Lake: Arria, may non RA make official comments here
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder on what basis members of groups in Al Andalus are claiming citizenship
[10:43] Arria Perreault: yes, you can talk
[10:43] Pip Torok: exactly, Pat
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: it seems to be different from in the old CDS sims
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by community involvement generally pat
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and pip should know that
[10:43] Delia Lake: re Citizenship. we received a list from Sudane and a list from Rose
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: perhasps delia can enlighten us
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: and what scrutiny has the SC given to those lists?
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: are you taking them at face value?
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: or checking that the CDS laws are being applied?
[10:44] Delia Lake: provisional at this point, Pat, as the list that counts is the list that is in effect when the polls open
[10:45] Arria Perreault: will this list be published?
[10:45] Delia Lake: are we researching and confirming? yes we are
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: ty delia. that’s reassuring
[10:45] Delia Lake: the list in effect would have to be the citizens in good standing as of 14 May midnight slt
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: unless we change the rules on the census today?
[10:46] Delia Lake: correct
[10:46] Pip Torok: so wd $100 tier citizens be “in good standing”?
[10:47] Mikelo Serevi: It seems a small investment to get voting power for
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we table the citizenship proposal for further discussion and move ot the next item of business
[10:47] Pip Torok: second
[10:47] Arria Perreault: vote
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:47] Pip Torok: aye
[10:47] Mikelo Serevi: We have time to vote next RA, right?
[10:47] Arria Perreault: yes, we have
[10:47] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[10:47] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:47] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[10:47] Arria Perreault: I will publish your proposal in the forum
[10:48] Delia Lake: NL 5-17 Census Scheduling Act
The number of seats in the RA shall be based upon the number of citizens as of the deadline for voting in the election that will elect that RA (per Article V) or the number of citizens as of the date the polls open in the aforementioned election, whichever is greater.
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: we do mikelo. but it will be right at election time so may well carry over to next term
[10:48] Arria Perreault: I vote aye
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: we will get to that after the next item i hope delia 🙂
[10:48] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[10:49] Arria Perreault: next point
[10:49] Patroklus Murakami: shall i report back from teh town hall arria?
[10:49] Arria Perreault: yes, for me it’s ok
[10:50] Arria Perreault: the transcript s are publised
[10:50] Patroklus Murakami: transcripts begin here:
[10:50] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2801
[10:50] Patroklus Murakami: i thought it was areally useful meeting
[10:50] Patroklus Murakami: we had a pretty robust discussion
[10:50] Patroklus Murakami: but a very honest one
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: ppl said what they thought about the merger
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: and about teh cultural misunderstandings and differences between the two communiites
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: what we hoped to get out of the merger
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: what we think we have got out of it
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: what we are happy with
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: and our disappointments
[10:51] Patroklus Murakami: i thought it was valualbe for understanding each other better
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: most attendees wanted teh merger to continue
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: one or two were strongly opposed to it
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: a few more were sceptical about the benefits
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: read the transcript for more details 🙂
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: i think we should continue the discussion next time
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[10:52] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pat
[10:53] Arria Perreault: d. Census
[10:53] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Solomon Mosely (15m)
[10:53] Arria Perreault: Patroklus, you have the floor again
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll be brief
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: delia posted the current election law a moment ago
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: we set the size of the RA based on our population
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: but we have two dates for checking the size!
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: the census when we work out who is eligible to vote about a month before the election
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: and the day the polls open
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: so we never know how many RA reps there will be until the polls open
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: i think this is mad
[10:55] You decline Molaskey’s Pub Bonfire Beach from A group member named Katydid Something.
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: so i suggest we fix on one date – the census date
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: this would mean the next RA will have 13 members
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: (delia will correct me if i’m wrong)
[10:55] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[10:55] Delia Lake: I believe that to be correct
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: and we will know that now, and not have to wait til the polls open
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[10:55] Kaseido Quandry: love it
[10:56] Delia Lake: based on 131 citizens on Apr 17
[10:56] Arria Perreault: Can we see the list?
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by calling a citizens meeting
[10:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: those who wish to be badgered might attend
[10:57] Delia Lake: I don’t have it inworld. it’s on a word doc right now.
[10:57] Arria Perreault: it could be published on thportal
[10:57] Arria Perreault: I can do it for you
[10:58] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia (9m)
[10:58] Arria Perreault: or Sudane can update her list (state January)
[10:58] Patroklus Murakami: it would be very helpful if it could be published soon
[10:58] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Gwyneth Llewelyn (16m)
[10:59] Arria Perreault: I can do quicly if I get it
[10:59] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia (18m)
[10:59] Delia Lake: if we publish the list it will be without identifying who if any might be in arrears in payment as of that April date
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn
[11:00] Mikelo Serevi: Is there some mention of how these people got citizenship, or is it just a raw list?
[11:00] Arria Perreault: yes, of course. we publish only the names
[11:00] Pip Torok: hi gwyn
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi all)
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami: we’re on the census bill
[11:00] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
[11:00] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami: but we seem to be discussing the voter list
[11:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (81, 103, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[11:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Sudane doesnt even know though.. she doesnt track land sales
[11:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: just so you know I don’t need to be canvassed by candidates
[11:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: just so you know.
[11:00] Arria Perreault: Cleo, there is a tool to know each change in old CDS sims
[11:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know what I am thinking 🙂
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: perhaps you should ask her
[11:01] Mikelo Serevi: I think sudane does know
[11:01] Delia Lake: I’m not sure what you mean by raw list Mikelo
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i have it on a notecard
[11:01] Arria Perreault: she gets everyy update
[11:01] Patroklus Murakami: could we vote on my proposal? or at least discuss it?
[11:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sonja has the notecard of her conversation with us
[11:01] Arria Perreault: yes, Pat
[11:01] Mikelo Serevi: well, the definition of citizen is in flux, which complicates things
[11:01] Arria Perreault: can you give us your proposal
[11:02] Patroklus Murakami: just a moment
[11:02] Arria Perreault: ?
[11:02] Patroklus Murakami: NL 12-1 Census Scheduling Act (Revised)
NL 5-17 is revised to read: “The number of seats in the RA shall be based upon the number of citizens as of the deadline for voting in the election that will elect that RA (per Article V).”
[11:02] Mikelo Serevi: right, but the numbermight change next RA meeting
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: i.e. we set the size of the RA when the census is taken
[11:03] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Ceasar Xigalia (13m)
[11:03] Arria Perreault: it’s rather logcal that we take the same date for RA seats and citizen entitled to vote
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: I agree with that
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: but the date is in the past
[11:04] Arria Perreault: it’s not a problem
[11:04] Pip Torok: a second ago is in the past, mikelo …. 😉
[11:04] Patroklus Murakami: that is not a problem for these elections mikelo
[11:04] Ceasar Xigalia gave you Accounts in CDS note to Sonja.
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: It just seems a little odd
[11:05] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:06] Arria Perreault: I think it’s fair we have the same date for both
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: the census has to be taken in any case to determine who is eligible to vote. the census has been taken. i am proposing we use that number to determine the size of the next RA
[11:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my birthday is passed I am still 27
[11:06] Arria Perreault: it’s nice also for citizen to know for how many people we can vote
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: rather than wait a few weeks and use whichever number is larger
[11:07] Pip Torok: move to vote
[11:07] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: mazzo Solo (15m)
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: yes, let’s
[11:07] Arria Perreault: a second?
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: i think you can just call the vote on the motion arria
[11:08] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: we don’t need to vote on whether to vote!
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[11:08] Arria Perreault: we vote
[11:08] Pip Torok: aye
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: abstain
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:08] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:09] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[11:09] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: mazzo Solo (17m)
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is it my turn ?
[11:09] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:09] Carolyn Saarinen: yep Stui
[11:09] Imotali Antiesse: ok, aye from me
[11:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I just like to know when it’s good to speak to be heard
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[11:10] Arria Perreault: before we start to vote
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: we’re in a vote. aye/nay/abstain
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: even then sometimes that’s not a good time
[11:10] Arria Perreault: in this case, you vote nayy
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know Pat
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I do ?
[11:10] Arria Perreault: your vote, Stui
[11:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no I vote aye
[11:11] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:11] Arria Perreault: motions carries
[11:11] Kaseido Quandry: woohoo
[11:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: almost unanimous
[11:11] Arria Perreault: it means the next RA will have 13 seats?
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami smiles
[11:11] Mikelo Serevi: but 13 seats representing who?
[11:12] Arria Perreault: the citizen will decide
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: but who are they?
[11:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well mikelo that often doesn’t seem to matter in some RA’s
[11:12] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:12] Arria Perreault: next point
[11:12] Delia Lake: 13 seats representing the citizens of the CDS
[11:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and often it’s the case that the RA reps don’t know who they are because they never meet them *LOL*
[11:13] Arria Perreault: e. Proposed Constitutional Amendment – Campaigning
[11:13] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:13] Carolyn Saarinen: A place for every arse and every arse in it’s place.
[11:13] Arria Perreault: Kaseido, you have the floor
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: thank you Arria –
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: In reading the constitutional provision on campaigning, and talking to a range of people here, I got somewhat confused
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: the provision as it reads seems to be a drastic restriction of rights to speak and assemble, in conjunction with the election
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: I understand there was some history with spamming, but what we have seems to go far overboard
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve proposed an alternative that I think acknowledges the primacy of political speech around an election, while still allowing a ban on disruptive and invasive tactics
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: and can drop the current and proposed text into chat, if appropriate
[11:16] Kaseido Quandry: (done) 🙂
[11:17] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry: I think I’ve given the floor back to Arria, but I’d like to hear from you, Pat
[11:17] Arria Perreault: any question to Kaseido?
[11:18] Arria Perreault: Patroklus
[11:18] Pip Torok raises hand
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: i think it would help to post the proposed changes in chat
[11:18] Lilith Ivory: yes
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: happy to- hang on
[11:18] Carolyn Saarinen: Stui’s crashed I think
[11:18] Lilith Ivory: yup
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: current provision:
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami: as i indicated on the forums, i agree with the sentiments but not the detail
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: Section 4 – Campaigning
Campaigning for election in CDS can be done in-world only by means of unscripted items or simple notecard givers that are placed in traditional, predetermined central CDS locations, or by discourse between two avatars directly. No spamming of any kind is allowed, including the dropping of items on avatars without permission, sending messages by Second Life group IM (other than one’s own faction group), or by shouting messages to large groups. Only two emails are allowed in a given election by any faction or representative of a faction.
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: proposed change:
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: Section 4 – Campaigning
The freedom of candidates and citizens to speak and assemble in conjunction with campaigning for election shall be subject only to such time, place and manner restrictions as to prevent invasions of privacy or disruptions of the peace. Unsolicited electronic communications (“spamming”) is not permitted; however, spamming shall not include signage or other displayed information, within Second Life or on the internet, which would otherwise be permissible speech outside the electoral context.
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: my main issue is that i am clear on what ‘sending mesages by group IM’ means. the original is very clear about what is or is not allowed
[11:19] Arria Perreault: question for this proposal?
[11:20] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t really know what is meant by ‘invasion of privacy’. it seems too subjective
[11:20] Patroklus Murakami: so i would prefer a different amendment to kaseido’s
[11:21] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, it’s my view of constitution drafting that it doesn’t include a shopping list of specifics subject to change, but that those be done in legislation
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: change the final sentence of the current provision to ”
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: Only two group notices are allowed in a given election by any candidate standing for election.”
[11:21] Kaseido Quandry: if the CDS philosophy is different, I can support that
[11:21] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, if you mean to the CDS and/or AA groups, I’m fine with that
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: yes, that is what i mean
[11:22] Kaseido Quandry: with that specified, I’m fine with Pat’s amendment
[11:22] Delia Lake: question from the peanut gallery please. how might group announcements of candidate, or faction, informational discussions such as we have had in past election cycles fit in here?
[11:22] Patroklus Murakami: i think your proposal could work, but it would need another bill to specify what ‘invasions of privacy’ are prohibited
[11:22] Kaseido Quandry: Delia, I think this would ensure they’re legal –
[11:23] Kaseido Quandry: I understand there have been candidate forums and discussions, which would seem to be in violation of the text as it stands
[11:23] Pip Torok was going to ask Delia’s question …
[11:23] Kaseido Quandry: which is what baffled me 🙂
[11:23] Arria Perreault: please, do, Pip
[11:23] Pip Torok: my question was the same as Delias .. so i withdraw it
[11:24] Kaseido Quandry: right now the constitution says a candidate can’t speak to more than one avatar inworld at a time
[11:24] Arria Perreault: sorry
[11:24] Kaseido Quandry: which would seem to make candidate meetings, debates and informal groups illegal
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[11:24] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:24] Arria Perreault: we are illegal since a long time 😉
[11:24] Kaseido Quandry: I figured 😀
[11:24] Mikelo Serevi: Was the intent to limit spamming of lists of people?
[11:24] Delia Lake: so it would appear
[11:25] Pip Torok: but hustings ARE a convenient means for most citizens I wd suggest
[11:25] Patroklus Murakami: just to be clear kas, i am *opposing* your suggested amendment. i propose that we make one change to the current provisions by changing the last sentence. i was surprised to see you say you supported my proposal 🙂
[11:26] Kaseido Quandry: ah, I thought you were modifying my proposal
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami: no
[11:26] Kaseido Quandry: the current provision outlaws public meetings with respect to the election. That’s an interesting position for an advocate of procedural democracy to take.
[11:27] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: StuiChicanne Darkstone (3m)
[11:27] Mikelo Serevi: I doubt that was ever the intent
[11:27] Patroklus Murakami: well, it doesn’t really, does it? we have held public meetings at every election. no one has challenged them because that was not the intent
[11:27] Patroklus Murakami: and the SC would, i am sure, not rule that election meetings were illegal
[11:27] Arria Perreault: could we add also a sentence about debates, faction meetings and candidates meeting?
[11:28] Patroklus Murakami: we need to look at intent as well as drafting
[11:28] Kaseido Quandry: How do we determine “intent”? Why not have a constitution that means what it says and says what it means?
[11:28] Arria Perreault: debates, faction meetings and candidates meeting are allowed
[11:28] Solomon Mosely: well, not as the law says now
[11:28] Kaseido Quandry: by your grace, not by the law.
[11:29] Carolyn Saarinen: I would agreethat the law should say what it means!
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: not relative to elections
[11:29] Patroklus Murakami: our law does not forbid election meetings
[11:30] Kaseido Quandry: “Campaigning for election in CDS can be done in-world only by means of unscripted items or simple notecard givers that are placed in traditional, predetermined central CDS locations, or by discourse between two avatars directly”
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: but i oppose kas amendment because i don’t think it’s an improvement on what we have
[11:30] Kaseido Quandry: So if a candidate talks to three people, they’re violating the constitution.
[11:30] Mikelo Serevi: Lol, I see what you mean
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: aah, but what if you talk to them ‘one at a time’? 🙂
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: oh gawd
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: then it’s not a public forum, Pat.
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: the others just shut down there local chat
[11:31] Carolyn Saarinen rolls her eyes
[11:31] Arria Perreault: Campaigning for election in CDS can be done in-world only by means of unscripted items or simple notecard givers that are placed in traditional, predetermined central CDS locations, or by discourse between two avatars directly and meetings
[11:31] Lilith Ivory: lol
[11:31] Lilith Ivory: can´t we just correct the text?
[11:31] Arria Perreault: I have add “and meetings”
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: kas amendment is ambigouos and unhelpful because it introduces new problems to define -invasion or privacy, disruption of the peace
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: Or take the word ‘two’ out
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: I thnk “in world only” is problematic
[11:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t see why it has to be in only specified locations
[11:32] Kaseido Quandry: it bans use of social media
[11:32] Pip Torok: May I make a suggestion: that Pat and Kas cobble together something that gives us the freedom of debate we have enjoyed without “disruption” whatever thats defined to be ….
[11:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that people in RL have the right to display collateral related to their electoral choice
[11:32] Kaseido Quandry: or even faction websites with election platforms
[11:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to show support
[11:32] Arria Perreault: Campaigning for election in CDS can be done in-world only by means of unscripted items or simple notecard givers that are placed in traditional, predetermined central CDS locations, or by discourse between avatars directly
[11:32] Carolyn Saarinen drums her head lightly against the furniture
[11:32] Patroklus Murakami: eminently sensible pip
[11:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and build support
[11:32] Kaseido Quandry: I’m amenable to Pip’s suggestion
[11:32] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think we should try to draft constitutional amendments on the hoof
[11:32] Pip Torok: move to vote
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: second
[11:33] Arria Perreault: we vote
[11:33] Pip Torok: aye
[11:33] Mikelo Serevi: what about the web site issue?
[11:33] Lilith Ivory: for what Arria said?
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: (we are voting in pip’s proposal, right?)
[11:33] Carolyn Saarinen: what is the motion?
[11:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what are we voting for ?
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: *on
[11:33] Arria Perreault: we vote on Pip’s proposal
[11:34] Pip Torok: (can be incorporated now youv mentioned it, mikelo)
[11:34] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, pat & kas improving this?
[11:34] Lilith Ivory: could you say it again please
[11:34] Arria Perreault: Pat and Kas work together to make a propsal
[11:34] Pip Torok: Pat and Kas cobble together something that gives us the freedom of debate we have enjoyed without “disruption” whatever thats defined to be ….
[11:34] Mikelo Serevi: then aye
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:34] Delia Lake: please if you would post in chat exactly what the proposal is
[11:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: object to the wording “cobble”
[11:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: doesn’t seem very precise
[11:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[11:35] Kaseido Quandry: “hack”?
[11:35] Pip Torok: have done, Delia … is that ok, Arria?
[11:35] Arria Perreault: Pip, is it correct: Pat and Kas work together to make a proosal?
[11:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask
[11:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and this may be a controversial point
[11:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but
[11:35] Pip Torok: amalgamate instead of cobble …..?
[11:35] Arria Perreault: wait a second, Stui
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: no, you can’t. we are in a vote. just vote stui
[11:36] Arria Perreault: I want the correct motion and the vote
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why don’t we ask what sorts of election material would be agreeable to the citizens
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Pat
[11:36] Lilith Ivory: aye for pat and Kas cobbling together something
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that I crashed
[11:36] Delia Lake: is there a “by when” attached here?
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that I have been reading back on this point
[11:36] Mikelo Serevi: that’s what they will be doing, stui
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have not been able to ask
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so I will ask
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thanks
[11:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[11:36] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[11:37] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[11:37] You decline Music Island, Sea Turtle Island (52, 11, 21) from A group member named Kate Miranda.
[11:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will it be by meeting with the citizens Kas ?
[11:37] Kaseido Quandry: Stui, my guiding principle is that CDS citizens should have *no less* freedom of speech and assembly wrt the election, than otherwise
[11:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I had to skim read a bit
[11:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[11:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I like that Kas
[11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: personally i don’t mind spam. I will just mute anyone who is over the board.
[11:37] Kaseido Quandry: and I’m deeply opposed to a shopping list in the constitution, but Pat and I can sort that
[11:37] Pip Torok: Pat and Kas amalgamate together something that gives us the freedom of debate we have enjoyed without “disruption” whatever thats defined to be ….
[11:38] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[11:38] Arria Perreault: we vote on this motion now
[11:38] Pip Torok: aye
[11:38] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:38] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:38] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:38] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[11:38] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[11:39] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[11:39] Patroklus Murakami: he voted aye
[11:39] Carolyn Saarinen: he voted
[11:39] Arria Perreault: I vote aye too
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: stui was the first to vote
[11:39] Arria Perreault: right
[11:39] Arria Perreault: good
[11:40] Arria Perreault: I suggest we postponed the two next points
[11:40] Arria Perreault: Jamie is not here
[11:40] Arria Perreault: I will inform him
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: folks, we need to get better at this. in future, post your motion in chat before a vote.
[11:40] Arria Perreault: I agree, Pat
[11:40] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: and members need to restrain themselves to aye/nay/abstain in a vote
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: and everyone else needs to shut up (with the greatest of respect)
[11:41] Arria Perreault: I agree to, not alwys easy to count
[11:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: charm from Pat as per usual
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: or else we end up with a muddle
[11:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and rather a lack of reactive thought to any point delivered
[11:42] Arria Perreault: ca we postpone the last point and adjourn?
[11:42] Delia Lake: i ask again, is there a “by when” attached to that proposal as it would seem to materially affect how this current election campaign that starts next Saturday can be conducted.
[11:42] Arria Perreault: points*
[11:42] Kaseido Quandry: (a simple electornic vote tabulator might help)
[11:42] Patroklus Murakami: good idea kas 🙂
[11:42] Kaseido Quandry: Delia, I see no problem with reporting back with something at the next meeting
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Kas, so long as “it” says something in chat too, for the record-keeping)
[11:42] Patroklus Murakami: me neither. we will get working on it
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good 🙂
[11:43] Delia Lake: the next meeting is 2 weeks from now and the campaigning for the next term starts in 1 week
[11:43] Kaseido Quandry: gwyn, good point – one of my students is making an SL voting app for his final project – I can talk to him about some mods, or have him meet with some of you
[11:43] Mikelo Serevi: this has been a problem for a couple of issues today
[11:43] Pip Torok: please!!!
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: so, the previous rules apply until we change them
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nice idea!
[11:44] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:44] Kaseido Quandry: the demo’s phenomenal – I’d be happy to set up a meeting for show&tell
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: we should also set a time limit on votes to prevent filibustering
[11:44] Mikelo Serevi: so we’ll go ahead and break them like always
[11:44] Delia Lake: then who will tell Sonja that no candidate meetings should be scheduled until this is changed?
[11:44] Pip Torok: ]lol
[11:44] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Mikelo!
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: delia, the meetings were legal before, they remain legal
[11:44] Mikelo Serevi: I have no problem breaking even an accidental ban on free speech anyway
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: unless the SC, in it’s infinite wisdom, wants to rule otherwise now?
[11:45] Pip Torok: i think its emcumbant upon Pat and kas to put their skates on!! :-))
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: Delia, nobody pressed charges before for clearly illegal meetings -let’s hope nobody gets clever in the next week, lol
[11:45] Carolyn Saarinen: I could very easily consult with the bDSM community about enforcing greater order 😉
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: lol Caro!
[11:45] Imotali Antiesse: LRA, may I be excused to log-off now? I really must go.
[11:45] Delia Lake: that’s the point I was getting to Kass
[11:45] Delia Lake: Kas
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: I know, Delia 🙂
[11:45] Arria Perreault: I have propose a motion to adjourn
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: second
[11:45] Mikelo Serevi: caro, could that increase voter turnout?
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry laughs
[11:45] Arria Perreault: thank you Pat
[11:46] Arria Perreault: vote
[11:46] Carolyn Saarinen: With the Restrained Life viewer sure 😉
[11:46] Imotali Antiesse: Thanks.
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: aye to adjournment
[11:46] Mikelo Serevi: “We have ways of making you vote”
[11:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:46] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[11:46] Carolyn Saarinen: aye
[11:46] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:46] Pip Torok: aye
[11:46] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[11:46] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I seek to filibuster
[11:46] Arria Perreault: thank you for the meeting

Permalink.

RA Meeting 2 May 2010

RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 1
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:29 pm
9:02] Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting on the CDS forums
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: hello all
[9:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Silvia
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll send a couple more IMS and then i suggest we begin
[9:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi sylvia
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: is this an open meeting?
[9:02] Kaseido Quandry: hi Sylvia
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: i’m not a citizen yet
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: open meeting, all welcome
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: hey Tor!
[9:04] Lilith Ivory: hi Tor
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: Hi Sonja
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Lilith
[9:04] Sylvia Tinkel: Ji tor
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all!
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: G’ Day Tor
[9:04] Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
[09:02] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting on the CDS forums
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: same Ranma
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: shall we begin then?
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: sure
[9:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Arias is coming
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll give a quick recap of why we are here
[9:06] Mikelo Serevi: people will probably filter in
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: and then we can all dive in
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: yes, ppl will probably arrive during as well
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: these ‘town hall ‘ meetings were set up to be held in between the regular RA meetings
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: the idea was that we could hold these in a more informal style
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: and get more citizen input than is possible in the structured, formal RA meetings
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: so far, they’ve been pretty successful
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: we held one meeting previously to discuss the merger between AA and the CDS
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: let me find the link
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2801
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: is the first page of the transcript
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: This is the second of the meetings to discuss the merger
[9:08] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
[9:08] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know that Patty
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Hail King Stui
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: as many of you will know, the merger has been in place for almost a year now
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening Lil
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening Kas
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Good Evening Tor
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening ALL
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: and, at the one year point in July, either the AA Estate Owner or the CDS Represnativative Assembly can choose to dissolve the merger
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[9:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[9:09] Arias Ahren: Hi Arria
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: so this meeting is being held to discuss our views on the merger, whehther it should continue and so on
[9:09] Sylvia Tinkel: Hi Arria
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: that will help to inform the choices to be made
[9:09] Arria Perreault: nice crown, Stui
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: i should say that it will be the next RA which makes the decision
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou AP It was a gift from an admiring fan
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: elections are this month, and the ppl elected as reps will have a chance to vote on it
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll sit next to Patty
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: Hi Rose
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: so, now we have a few more here
[9:10] Rose Springvale: hello, rezzing
[9:10] Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: let me remind everyone to click the box in the centre
[9:11] Sylvia Tinkel: Hi rose
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: to indicate consent to be recorder
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: recorded
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting later
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: and, with that, let’s begin
[9:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wondered what that was on your back Patty I thought it was a table tennis bat
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s called an uchiwa
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: don’t be shy folks
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t sit next to Patty it won’t let me
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: this is your opportunity to say what you think about the merger between AA and CDS. go ahead!
[9:13] Danton Sideways: neat people can sit under the trees?
[9:13] Danton Sideways: q
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: aww, not my fault stui. i could not sit on that bit either. it’s nothing personal
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at STH we talked Merger
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: well at first I wanted the union to continue, however the merger has not really happened
[9:14] Pip Torok: can i suggest that Rose talks first?
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was Wednesday
[9:14] Rose Springvale: not here to talk
[9:14] Pip Torok: ah
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Rose?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: yes?
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Please
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s open meeting and so everyone can speak if they want to
[9:14] Arias Ahren: don’t keep silent
[9:14] Arria Perreault: yes, please
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i’m here to listen folks
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: the atmosphere in the forums has become so toxic
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s a matter of choice and opinion
[9:15] Arria Perreault: there are still so many open questions
[9:15] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t support the merger any more myself, partly because it seems to have annoyed so many people
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: while i would love to hear what rose has to say too, it’s not really up to us to pressure her
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: at STH’s and talking to people we have mixed opinions
[9:15] Jayme Mistwalker: as a CDS citizen I think the merger would benefit us, but I feel like there’s hostility
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[9:16] Ranma Tardis: Pat I am sure as a leader she wants to hear other peoples views and not unduly influence or pressure them
[9:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and there is a lot of that is broken down to a basic lack of trust and knowledge on one side or the other
[9:16] Pip Torok: Could I suggest that an AA resident (with nothing in CDS) speak?
[9:16] Danton Sideways: STH = Stui’s Talking Hour
[9:16] Arria Perreault: for me, I think any merger is a good idea, but we really have to know all the consequences
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: do we have any here?
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t believe AA is atempting to change the democratic nature of CDS. The merger is good.
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: Schmilson! hey!
[9:17] Arias Ahren: Ever since humans first chisled something into stone there was someone upstream shisiling that the folks downstream were full of it
[9:17] Schmilsson Nilsson: Hello! Waiting for everything to rez before sitting.
[9:17] Mikelo Serevi: What exactly are the benefits of the merger, besides expansion?
[9:17] Pip Torok: lol Arias …
[9:17] Ranma Tardis: the cds is an electorial democracy as Rudy would say
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Too much has been said in the forums about AA not being democratic or suggesting that CDS will not be dem. after a merger.
[9:17] Jayme Mistwalker: is that true?
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think there is a basic belief in AA that the RA is somewhat indifferent to the concerns of AA
[9:18] Pip Torok: i’d say that the merger is culturally enriching on both sides
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or not necessarily sympathetic to the wider cultural mission of the sims
[9:18] Rose Springvale: stui?
[9:18] Rose Springvale: are you speaking for yourself or all of AA?
[9:18] Arria Perreault: I think, if we continue the merger, we have to review the AA master plan and price policy, with a review of the CDS price policy (average prim price). If we can’t act in one AA sim (in respect of the theme), it’s not a real merger
[9:18] Ranma Tardis: an electorial democracy is not a true one, it has all of the apperance of one but does not function
[9:18] Kaseido Quandry: I think Pip’s expressed the hope -and the reality, outside the political class
[9:18] Mikelo Serevi: we can exchange culture without merging
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: did AA understand what the CDS democracy was like before joining?
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the two can coexist
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: it isn’t a problem for CN and NFS to be together in the same estate
[9:19] Rose Springvale: i thought this was to be a conversation about what CDS citizens wanted. if its all speculation about AA then i’ll go
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: some things do not mix well a peach and mushroom taste nice but not toughter
[9:19] Mikelo Serevi: well ranma, I think past a certain size, a direct democracy just won’t work
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: very different sims and covenants
[9:19] Patroklus Murakami: well, the AA citizens could tell us
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: our community is very small
[9:19] Arria Perreault: Rose, we have opinions, but also questions
[9:19] Rose Springvale: you have here only one citizen of solely AA
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: I think what AA wants is important
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: we could aske questions and get them answered
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I have asked a question above. this is a key question for me
[9:20] Rose Springvale: sigh
[9:20] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:20] Pip Torok: Then what i as a half-CDS man wants are 2 EO’s totally happy with whAT we eventually decide
[9:20] Rose Springvale: what do you want to know?
[9:20] Arria Perreault: it will influe my opinion on the merger
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: how about joint citizens? do they not know their neighbours’ views?
[9:20] Rose Springvale: money?
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I think, if we continue the merger, we have to review the AA master plan and price policy, with a review of the CDS price policy (average prim price). If we can’t act in one AA sim (in respect of the theme), it’s not a real merger
[9:20] Sylvia Tinkel: Isn’t the fact that only one citizen of AA is here kind of relevant?
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: I want to know if the AA citizens want the merger
[9:20] Rose Springvale: did you read my forum post yesterday regarding reserves?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: “clarifying misconceptions”
[9:21] Kaseido Quandry: I see at least half a dozen AA citizens here, Sylvia
[9:21] Ranma Tardis: yes it is all about the money, sighs the CDS has the highest tier rate in sl
[9:21] Sylvia Tinkel: oh, I thought Rose said only one was here
[9:21] Sylvia Tinkel: nm
[9:21] Arria Perreault: my question is: can we review Sacromonte next term?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: only one AA ONLY
[9:21] Kaseido Quandry: no, only one who isn’t a citizen of AA *only*
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: money is one issue, there are others
[9:21] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement provided that no tier or land changes would occur during the first year, so long as LL didn’t change anything.
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Tier might be the undemocratic aspect of CDS.
[9:22] Rose Springvale: My understanding is the Sacromonte is rented
[9:22] Ranma Tardis: I have nothing to do with the CDS by choice
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: It is too high.
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: What is undemocratic about tier, tor?
[9:22] Ranma Tardis: I am a member of a land owning group in AA
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: It keeps many new people out of CDS
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: tor, tier rates can be changed
[9:22] Arria Perreault: it was not when we have tried to work on this project
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: keeps the community static.
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: not having any land to sell keeps ppl out of CDS!
[9:23] Rose Springvale: on sacromonte. but you wanted to divide it up and charge different tier.
[9:23] Pip Torok agrees with Pat
[9:23] Tor Karlsvalt: there is land
[9:23] Arria Perreault: yes, exactly
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tier is a fundamental issue
[9:23] Kaseido Quandry: Tor’s absolutely right – th model makes it clear new blood isn’t wanted
[9:23] Sylvia Tinkel: it can be a good thing or a bad thing but high tier can’t really be “undemocratic”
[9:23] Ranma Tardis: Pat, the CDS has a obsence amount of reserve
[9:23] Mikelo Serevi: I thought we were talking about the merger
[9:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes sylvia it can and is
[9:23] Arria Perreault: if the RA decide that, can we implemente this decision or not?
[9:23] Kaseido Quandry: of course it can- high rates shut out broad participation
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa whoa
[9:23] Rose Springvale: after the merger is final, of course. but you’ll have to evict the tenant
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: two moments
[9:23] Sonja Strom: There are some parcels available right now that have very low tier.
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: back to the merger folks
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: Pat the RA can do anything they please, no checks on its power
[9:24] Sylvia Tinkel: it’s the wrong term to use
[9:24] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: we are not discussing the high tier rates just now
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s becoming a bit of a free for all and it’s difficult to ascertain the direction of the conversation
[9:24] Rose Springvale: i’ll oppose it, because its not a good way to serve people. but it will be the RA decision
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: save it for another time
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: true, in NFS
[9:24] Arria Perreault: (we can wait a vacancy, of course)
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: that is my objection to the CDS
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: if citizenship is tied to parcel ownership, and parcels are phenomenally expensive, what *would* you call it?
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rose is right tho
[9:24] Jayme Mistwalker: good point, kas
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people in AA don’t want large land masses split into small plots
[9:25] Rose Springvale: stui
[9:25] Rose Springvale: again, are you speaking for yourself of for AA?
[9:25] Rose Springvale: i’ve not heard that sentiment
[9:25] Arria Perreault: we can make affordable plots and first review our price polic, Kas
[9:25] Pip Torok: well ARE they expensive if its needed to pay the sim and keep an adequare reserve?
[9:25] Sylvia Tinkel: I would call that a group of very rich peopel practicing democracy
[9:25] Ranma Tardis: why not buy more sims?
[9:25] Arria Perreault: it was one of the idea concerning Saaacromonte
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have related to the nature reserve
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, look at market rates across SL
[9:25] Rose Springvale: Arria
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: we seem to be dancing around every topic but the merger at the moment
[9:26] Rose Springvale: there is land right now in a full prim sim that merely needs the cooperation of the Exec office to set for sale
[9:26] Ranma Tardis: one can be gotten cheap, people are giving them back to LL
[9:26] Rose Springvale: so why deal with sacromonte?
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: I pay 2600/mo, I wouldn’t say that’s expensive
[9:26] Arria Perreault: Sacromonte makes only one person as citizen and not for a cheap price
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: “pay extra so we can maintain a slush fund” isn’t exactly a big marketing draw
[9:26] Pip Torok: yes Kas but look at what we offer as opposed to what they offer … its a buyers mkt …
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: can i suggest some questions to structure our discussion?
[9:26] Arria Perreault: there are 3 very cheap parcels in NFS now
[9:26] Pip Torok: please yes Pat
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: what did people hope to get out of the merger?
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami: has the past year met your expectations?
[9:27] Ranma Tardis: due to the differences of the groups, I think the merger should be canceled
[9:27] Arria Perreault: I have tried to give one of them to a friend of Stui who wanted a cheap parcel
[9:27] Pip Torok: The pride of being a citizen of both without qualification
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami notes this is like herding cats
[9:27] Sonja Strom: It seems to me like the merger has been very stressful, to my disappointment.
[9:27] Ranma Tardis: the RA will get more and more involved in the AA dictating they wants and desires
[9:27] Mikelo Serevi: politically, CDA and AA are like oil and water, imo
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I mentioned tier only to point out that both CDS and AA have areas where democracy can be broadened.
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: We share a lot of people and were friendly before
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped to get a revitalised community out of it. joint projects, cross-fertilisation of ideas
[9:28] Rose Springvale: ranma, are you speaking for CDS or AA now?
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS should not fear AA
[9:28] Ranma Tardis: AA of course
[9:28] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo’s right – if we define “CDS” as “this term’s RA”
[9:28] Pip Torok: it wd be good to have a 100% AA resident to confirm that or not, Mikelo
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: i think there is too much of that sentiment.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: hi jamie
[9:29] Ranma Tardis: the FIC of the CDS makes money from it
[9:29] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
[9:29] Pip Torok: hi Jamie
[9:29] Kaseido Quandry: the more time I spend just with people in CDS, the more I realize “l’etat c’est moi” isn’t nearly as true as some woud like
[9:29] Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Jamie
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped that AA citizens would learn about and participate actively in the CDS representative democracy
[9:30] Pip Torok wonders just who those “some” are! …
[9:30] Lilith Ivory: Hi Keila
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped that the current factions would expand, new ones would form and we would do some work together on issues of religious and political tolerance
[9:30] Rose Springvale: it would be helpful to me if people would talk about facts instead of theories and presumptions
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I think there are AA citizens on RA
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: and I noticed that sevral are running for AA
[9:30] Jamie Palisades waves laggily & smiles. we ha e an FIC? damn, Gwyn & Sudane must have sent all the dough to Goldman Sachs while I wasn’t looking
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: RA*
[9:30] Rose Springvale: and i don’t speek french
[9:30] Ranma Tardis: yes the CDS has a inner circle
[9:30] Rose Springvale: no
[9:30] Arria Perreault: it was a saying of Louis the 14th: I am the state
[9:31] Arria Perreault: King of France
[9:31] Rose Springvale: CDS has people who have a lot of writing on the forum
[9:31] Sylvia Tinkel whispers: every communicty has an
[9:31] Pip Torok: well Rose, I feel that more objection to the merger comes from yourself than from AA citizens … but if I am wroplease tell me
[9:31] Ranma Tardis: Neualtenberg as I knew it has been destroyed
[9:31] Rose Springvale: but i dont’ believe there is an inner circle
[9:31] Sylvia Tinkel: inner circle” in the same senxe as the CDS has one
[9:31] Mikelo Serevi: Right, and it’s an odd thing to say, since CDS is really about democracy
[9:31] Tor Karlsvalt: So I think AA citizens are beginning to take part in CDS institutions
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: what did ppl hope to get out of the merger?
[9:31] Pip Torok: *wrong please tell me
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Pip, i merely am asking cds to stand by its agreement
[9:32] Sylvia Tinkel: Neualtenburg was destroyed by Ulrika Ranma
[9:32] Ranma Tardis: first the CDS will raise tier and pay themselves
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip there is opposition to the Merger
[9:32] Ranma Tardis: no it was destroyed by the coup
[9:32] Pip Torok: ye Stui BUT WHERE FROM?
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can confirm it but not who… it’s for those people to state their opposition
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: /
[9:32] Sylvia Tinkel: never heard of any coup
[9:32] Rose Springvale: sylvia and ranma, i really love you both, but i don’t think as non citizens you are helping our discussions right now
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not for me to give them over to a badgering by witnesses of the meeting
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. seems like so much uncertainty has been raised about whether the merger will continue or not that the CDS RA is reluctant to waste time for no outcome
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: See, I’m hearing accusations of elitism and corruption, but where to people get these ideas?
[9:33] Rose Springvale: agree mikelo
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: well, who opposed it the first time?
[9:33] Ranma Tardis: the cds is a dictatorship in the guise of a democracy, there was no way to vote them
[9:33] [color=Black]Patroklus Murakami: i agree with rose on this i’m afraid. a trip down memory lane is not helpful
[9:33] Pip Torok agrees with Mikelo
[9:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would say Mikelo they’d get it from watching certain RA meetings at times
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I have understood that the opposition is mainly seen in in-action rather than overt action,
[9:33] Sylvia Tinkel: I must object to Ranma just sputing hateful things without any kind of support and that are not relevant to the discussion
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: No NP set up, no effort to help run AA etc
[9:33] Ranma Tardis: I opposed it at first because the 2 groups are so different
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: It’s easy to shoot arrows, and planty have been shot
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: Is it too much to ask people to fight fair?
[9:34] Pip Torok: but Ranma youre a citizen of neither atm!
[9:34] Danton Sideways: NP= non profit
[9:34] Ranma Tardis: Sylvia you were not a citizen during that time
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: I was in another avatar
[9:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are at times as a representative assembly very good at representing the divisions over the solidarity
[9:34] Ranma Tardis: actually I am a member of a land owning group in AA
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Can we ever just learn to let water run off our backs
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: my point is to just shout nasty things about past history is to derail the debate
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Ranma, neither were you
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: whether true or not
[9:34] Arria Perreault: I was very in favour of this merger at the beginning of the term. I told it publicly as LRA in my inaugural address. Then we got agressive reactions for the 2-3 first meetings. And what we have tried to do in AA was blocked. Then I have started to have doubts. Did we really merge? The only signs we have on the merger are the financial reports. Sorry to say that, but it is the reality.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: surprised to hear that ranma
[9:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Do we ALWAYS have to address little jibs.
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: I think aggressive reactions are a mild way to put it
[9:35] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:35] Rose Springvale: can we please speak in specifics?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: especially the second meeting
[9:35] Rose Springvale: generalizations do not help clarify anything.
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: bulling is more the term I’d use
[9:35] Ranma Tardis: why I am a citizen of Caledon
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: what was blocked, Arria?
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: bullying
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: I agree Rose
[9:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is my hope that the next RA can work together more
[9:35] Danton Sideways: the merged RA has worked ok for a year now
[9:36] Pip Torok: I believe the real “battle” is between the angry vs the non-angry .. not CDS versus AA
[9:36] Rose Springvale: i thnk so too pip.
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: I’m here to work out positive soutions, not squabble, but it’s becoming difficult
[9:36] Arria Perreault: we have tried to start a project in Sacromonte at a time where it was empty. We have presented that as a project for both community to work together. I have personnally been very disapointed with the reaction we got.
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: So, merger, yes or no?
[9:36] Ranma Tardis: what you did not know Sylvia, I was told to shut up and I had promised myself not to be the “angry chick” pardon me
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am walking the thin line between one path and the other
[9:37] Sylvia Tinkel: I agree with Rose that we should stay with substantive things
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: it’s felt to me over the past year like sometimes we are merged and sometimes we aren’t
[9:37] Rose Springvale: Arria, i have explained that what RA wanted to do in Sacromonte was premature and that there is another sim for you to work on. Why do you find that disappointing?
[9:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree, and responces to jibs can be taken IM
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: over sacromonte, we were not mergerd
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: warned off
[9:37] Mikelo Serevi: The merger seems to have created a lot of friction
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: concrete’s good. Arria, what was blocked? Pat, the “some of RA” that you say think they don’t want to put time into AA ? specifics on that? you refer to yourself?
[9:37] Arria Perreault: I am sure today that if we were able to do this project together, the mood regarding the merger would be very diferent
[9:38] Rose Springvale: then move it to almunecar.. .which is what i’ve said since the original conversation
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Almunecar is not rented
[9:38] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I put this on the agenda for the next meeting
[9:38] Arria Perreault: next sunday
[9:38] Rose Springvale: and start it after the merger is final but in the meantime, work on setting Albaycin forward
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Delia has worked on this and carried the tier for a year now
[9:38] Pip Torok: one thing I know is that it takes only 1-2 angries to make it appear there is no hope for a merger
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, rose. why did u not sort out the CDS side of the merger when you were in power?
[9:38] Rose Springvale: and it is tstill not set for sale
[9:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Yeah AP I think the problem with Sacromonte was just that the rental was probably being planned at the same time the RA was making plans.
[9:39] Arria Perreault: ok, Rose
[9:39] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:39] Rose Springvale: pat
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: you are now blaming the current RA and chancellor for inaction
[9:39] Arria Perreault: we can start now with the conception of the project by steeing a workgroup
[9:39] Ranma Tardis: am not angry with the CDS just disapointed
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: particularly on the Non-Profit
[9:39] Rose Springvale: jamie and i did our job pat.
[9:39] Rose Springvale: the non profit is set up.
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: why did u not do it when you had the chance?
[9:39] Rose Springvale: read my post on clarifying misconcetions
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: which non-profit?
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it could be said that a lot of the issues with the merger are arrived at because people don’t speak out
[9:40] Ranma Tardis: but the CDS makes a profit
[9:40] Rose Springvale: this RA has taken the position that there is no need for a non profit because CDS doesn’t want to go there, despite its agreement
[9:40] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to see the agreement, i have it on a notecard
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: :/ pat that might take better than an iPhone connection to answer well – but we DID. that things fell apart afterwards is a good Q for current RA & govt
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: the RA has taken no position on that qn rose
[9:40] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t whink we’ve decided against a non profit, rose
[9:40] Rose Springvale: nor any steps to complet our work
[9:40] Pip Torok: Ranma … saying any sim “makes a profit” is misleading …
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: did you tell anyone what needs to be done?
[9:40] Ranma Tardis: AA is non profit, the CDS is all about profit
[9:41] Arria Perreault: Albaycin too. I will contact Delia about that
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, profit does imply people are collecting, and we certainly aren’t
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there was the discussion about raising the profitability of the AA sims
[9:41] Rose Springvale: pat, at some point, it is the RA job to do its job
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but how can you raise profit on a non profit ?
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly the problem was the transition at the beinnig of the term– lack of willing communication
[9:41] Pip Torok: no Ranma … CDS is abou surviving financially
[9:41] Ranma Tardis: why do we have to make more money than tier?
[9:41] Arria Perreault: it’s very important that we can influe the land management in AA
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AA has been criticised for the costs it incurs at RA
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: hmm difficult to do what ppl expect you to do if they don’t tell you what they expect
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I have seen two sets of figures
[9:41] Rose Springvale: folks, lets focus
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we will respect the theme and until now CDS has made a good job in all sims
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which ones are the correct ones ?
[9:42] Rose Springvale: money is the least of our issues
[9:42] Pip Torok: you did nt hear me Ranma … CDS is about surviving financially
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS holds too much money.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: e.g. on the AA voids – isn’t the right question what a TENANT CITIZEN wants to to do with it? all AA land managements has BEEN subject to CDS jurisdiction for a year now
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: far more than necessary
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: they take in too much money
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: they pay themselves
[9:42] Rose Springvale: then you need to work on budgets. but that is NOT the issue here
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it seems to me that anyone who read the Transcripts of the RA meetings related to budget… would be lead to believe that AA was in financial difficulty
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: This is something that can be changed, ranma
[9:42] Pip Torok: oh dear …. Ranma!
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I have heard to the contrary also
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: it is the issue Rose
[9:42] Sonja Strom: In what sense has AA land management been subject to CDS jurisdiction?
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: I think the idea was to use it to expand, if I remember correctly
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the truth is that there needs to be some clarity on that matter
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: we won’t know how healthy AAs finances are until a year is up
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and some qualification and testing of the figures
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: sudane has been quite clear about that
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: what ches on rose’s leg over what CDS has or hS not done w it’s power over CDS?
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: otherwise that issue can’t be put to bed
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: some of the projections give some cause for concern
[9:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the agreement states that it is Sonja.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Jamie, can you give a couple of specific examples?
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: but nohting we can’t handle together
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: sure- of what?
[9:43] Ranma Tardis: there is no oversight on Sundane
[9:43] Danton Sideways: holy cow the chat is going too fast to follow
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but the conversations about budget and the procrastination over the formulation of the budget
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the pointy finger that occurred at one RA meeting
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: try in on an iPhone Danton
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: as a real civil servant everything I do is subject to aduit
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that made people think that AA wasn’t pulling it’s weight
[9:44] Rose Springvale: wait a minute
[9:44] Sonja Strom: Of AA land management having been subject to CDS jusisdiction for over a year now.
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well that’s bound to rather upset the apple cart on any merger
[9:44] Rose Springvale: 1) this is not a time to pick on sudane
[9:44] Rose Springvale: we are here to talk about CDS and AA i thought
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: as a political she is not inmune
[9:44] Rose Springvale: lets stay on topic please?
[9:44] Mikelo Serevi: the merger, yes
[9:45] Ranma Tardis: the question is do we want European socialism
[9:45] Rose Springvale: CDS has had estate managers and been given all the power i have to give since the merger began
[9:45] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA’s managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[9:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes to european socialism! it’s fab
[9:45] Rose Springvale: cds gets reports of every land transaction and has the power to make them
[9:45] Sylvia Tinkel: sighs at “european socialism”
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: ok, answering Sonja; I told rose (as AA EO) what to do with rent etc. until theend of my term… and now you could have. assuming you two are communicating
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Rose, CDS estate managers have had power on AA land?
[9:45] Pip Torok: my feelings are that when CDS have and like RA meetings and that AA have and like “Town Hall” then we’re BOTH happy
[9:46] Rose Springvale: CDS has estate managers that do, yes
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: hmmmm
[9:46] Sonja Strom: who?
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja, i posted that part of the merer agreement in chat
[9:46] Rose Springvale: jamie, sudane, moon, i, satir,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:46] Rose Springvale: i think more, but i’d have to go look
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: I agree with pip there, there are more happy people than trouble- stirrers
[9:46] Mikelo Serevi: I just feel like the merger has caused more trouble than it’s worth
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Thanks for answering my question.
[9:46] Pip Torok: AH!! someone who agrees !! ))
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: but (meaningful look) the trouble stirrers are louder
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: sighs, because someone does not agree with the FIC does not make them a “troublemaker”
[9:47] Pip Torok: (arent they always!:)
[9:47] Rose Springvale: are there other specific questins?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: wasntvthinking of you
[9:47] Pip Torok: depends on def of “does not agree”
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: what you are saying sounds to me like “shut up”
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: I have one rose
[9:47] Keila Forager: Too much trouble , so just give up…that’s very adult..
[9:48] Rose Springvale: yes Jamie?
[9:48] Jayme Mistwalker: ranma, are you here to discuss the merger?
[9:48] Jayme Mistwalker: or bash CDS?
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: Well, no one has mentioned who the throublemakers are
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: it’s funny how ppl’s tune has changed. we were told a few weeks ago that AA was up in arms, revolting even, at the thought of the merger
[9:48] Sylvia Tinkel: If the only benefits to the merger are social and cultural and we can have those ust by living side by side but differently, why merge at all?
[9:48] Ranma Tardis: how can a for profit and non profit merge?
[9:48] Arria Perreault: Ramna, can I explave you something? In european social-democrat states, the state finance many things like culture. In USA, the main cultural expenses are on private hands. I have found strange that it is the reverse in CDS and AA. In CDS we used to have few events paid by CDS and we have events paid by citizen. In AA, the events of the 11th terms were paid by the CDS
[9:48] Rose Springvale: who told you that Pat?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: rose, as AA EO, how
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: now, when ppl speak out against it, all is sweetness and light!
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: you did rose!
[9:48] Sylvia Tinkel: hi Delia
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, it was my understanding that AA had concerns about the merger, fears of a takeover
[9:49] Delia Lake: hi everyone. still rezzing
[9:49] Lilith Ivory: Hi Delia
[9:49] Rose Springvale: we are here to discuss CDS i thought
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia
[9:49] Ranma Tardis: why is everything about money, in Caledon we get toughter just for the fun of it
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: we have had months of ‘AA citizens are not happy, you must make concessions to them’
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: abolish factions
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: talk nicer
[9:49] Arria Perreault: so Ramna, the cultural policy of AA is closer to what you want to avoid and the CDS sims closer
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: pay for events
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: Rose, as AA EO .. how much direction have you received from CDS govt since last election?
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was hardly that black and white
[9:49] Rose Springvale: none
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: but now, when some say that they have no more confidence in it, volte face
[9:50] Pip Torok: Ranma … tier and events dont pay for themselves! ..
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: pretty hard to defy them, then, eh?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: as AA EO, no one has contacted me at all
[9:50] Ranma Tardis: I am a citizen of AA by choice, to learn about other cultures
[9:50] Rose Springvale: that’s what i though
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: or even work with them?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: yep
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: what i’m hearing is that you dont like the result of the last election. seems to me that’s the real underlying issue
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: ppl are sore they lost last time
[9:50] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:50] Rose Springvale: pat
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what was represented to the RA was that issues are not quite so simple as what could be assumed from face value facts
[9:50] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, could be, pat
[9:51] Rose Springvale: i am only one person
[9:51] Rose Springvale: i am a CDS citizen
[9:51] Keila Forager: OMG Pat, that is so childish..
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that it refers a lot to the core mission of AA
[9:51] Pip Torok: if thats right, then those losers arent into democracy win or lose!
[9:51] Ranma Tardis: yes, I spent a year in Iraq getting shout at on a daily event, I meet a lot of nice people there though
[9:51] Sonja Strom: I have been in contact with Rose many, many times over this term.
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I’ve sensed what pat is saying myself
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask a question ?
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: everyone is so fond of answering
[9:51] Rose Springvale: and here to do what i can to answer your questions. if this is going to be a fistfight, i’d much rather go for a walk
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would like to ask one
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Rather than play fair, people are playing games, causing trouble
[9:51] Rose Springvale: not true sonja
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask a question Patty ?
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Some of our RA meetings have beenn amlost impossible to run
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: *** Excuse me? NONE, Rose? CDS govt hS not contacted you on AA matters AT ALL for 4 months?
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: are we having a fistfight?
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: no one stopping u stui
[9:52] Sylvia Tinkel: this is way too unstructured for me, I don’t think we are getting anywhere
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
[9:52] Sonja Strom: Rose, shall I forward our email exhanges to everyone here?
[9:52] Pip Torok: whats your question, Stui?
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: it takes fighters to fight
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: I think people have tried to contact rose, but she has not responded
[9:52] Rose Springvale: sonja, you will find two emails
[9:52] Sonja Strom: Many more than that,
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in one, you replied to my query about renting sacromonte
[9:52] Sonja Strom: and many IMs,
[9:52] Sylvia Tinkel:
[9:52] Ranma Tardis: I am a warrior but one that does not relish the fight
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my question is: What is the general understanding of the mission of AA ?
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: For example, I know sonja has asked for figures
[9:52] Sonja Strom: and many exchanges in the CDS forum.
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in the other you told me” i didn’t thingk you wanted a response.”
[9:53] Sonja Strom: And many in meetings, like this one.
[9:53] Mikelo Serevi: ok, so we have contacted you
[9:53] Rose Springvale: i’ve not been to a Town Hall before
[9:53] Rose Springvale: and no contact regarding the merger at all.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: In one email I said that, that’s true Rose…
[9:53] Rose Springvale: as estate owner
[9:53] Arria Perreault: everybody is invited in Town Hall
[9:53] Rose Springvale: i’ve never been told to repossess antyhing
[9:53] Jamie Palisades smiles. Rose and Sud
[9:53] Sonja Strom: because you were angry I had not given an answer you wanted, and I did not know you were asking me a question.
[9:53] Pip Torok: My answer to your question Stui is that AA is a beacon to the _principle_ of live-and-let-live in terms of differences between societies
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: a
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I thought you were making a statement.
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip gets a gold star
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I believe S you just leaned CDS had a responsibiltiy for AA land management.
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip as you answered
[9:54] Sonja Strom: Then when I understood it was a question, I did answer.
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: ((sorry about the bad interface))
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can you tell me how that might be seperate from the basis of much of CDS ?
[9:54] Rose Springvale: only part, and only to tell me to come pick up volleyball in LA, during the middle of ferria
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I never even asked you to do that Rose!
[9:55] Rose Springvale: and then you took it all to the forums
[9:55] Rose Springvale: oh sonja
[9:55] Rose Springvale: do you want me to copy the exchanges?

RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 2
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:31 pm
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: so, do our problems boil down to lack of communication (no blame implied) between the outgoing and new governments in CDS?
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: i.e might complicate matters at RA level….
[9:55] Rose Springvale: this is silly
[9:55] Pip Torok: (Information Officers dont normally get away with not answering questions, Stui!:)
[9:55] Rose Springvale: not going to do this
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: Mikelo, it was my experience as chancellor that suda
[9:55] Sonja Strom: yes, please send them to everyone Rose…
[9:55] Rose Springvale: no
[9:55] Sonja Strom: I would like for everyone to see them.
[9:55] Pip Torok: it may well be that, pat!
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: ne Nd rose both needed help from govt
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: rose, sonja. i;m not sure this blame game helps us
[9:55] Ranma Tardis: I stand behind Rose
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Can anyone answer that question I posed ?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: if there are issues you wish to speak to me about sonja, you need to do it directly
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Especially if now you will say that I did nothing, that I was not in contact…
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why would AA’s mission complicate matters at RA level ?
[9:56] Pip Torok: i for one wd be happy to have them from sonie
[9:56] Sonja Strom: that I told you to do anything…
[9:56] Sonja Strom: this is the opposite of the reality of the last term.
[9:56] Arria Perreault: Stui, if we were merged totally, it would be a problem
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: pat? no. new govt has a duty to deal with EOs that is irrelevant to old govt
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well let me answer
[9:56] Arria Perreault: the problem is that we don’t have all cards in our hands now
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it would complicate matters on account that each law
[9:56] Arria Perreault: as RA
[9:57] Rose Springvale: what cards do you not have Arria?
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: how so, arria?
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: would have to be qualified further in AA
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by the multicultural needs
[9:57] Ranma Tardis: sighs the power is the RA is unlimited
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: i think it is relevant jamie. it seems like ill will left over from the election inhibited communications
[9:57] Arria Perreault: land management, the list of citizen (still not published),
[9:57] Rose Springvale: yes it is!
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: ppl have not *wanted* to work with each other
[9:57] Arria Perreault: where
[9:57] Rose Springvale: the AA citizens are in the same list as the CDS citizens
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: hence some of our problems
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as if it disenfranchised or infringed the rights of one group
[9:57] Rose Springvale: and sudane has all the info re land
[9:58] Rose Springvale: and SC has the current list
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then perhaps it would be against the mission statement of AA
[9:58] Pip Torok: Pat .. imho those ppl didnt want to work with anyone, CDS or AA
[9:58] Arria Perreault: The list of citizen on the portal is still from Jan 8, 2010
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there has been upset caused in the past related to the communication between both sim groups
[9:58] Ranma Tardis: the CDS needs to return to the model of phase 2
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the use of sim groups to communicate events
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: *those people* can you be specific pip?
[9:58] Jamie Palisades: ra controls aa AND old CDS thru Sudaneb& Rose! what’s the prob here?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: i’m sorry i have no control, or frankly, interest in the portal.
[9:59] Arria Perreault: this one of our tool of communication
[9:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there was at one point a set of two seperate rules
[9:59] Keila Forager: Maybe the people that update the portal need to take initiative and get the list and update it
[9:59] Jamie Palisades: that’s executive branch guys
[9:59] Arria Perreault: how I do to know who is citizen and who is not?
[9:59] Pip Torok: the ones that cause unneeded upset, Pat … 9value statement , i know)
[9:59] Rose Springvale: Sudane keeps a current list of all CDS citizens
[9:59] Jamie Palisades: you get lists from your two EOs Arria
[9:59] Ranma Tardis: the CDS is more complex that the City of Hampton Virginia, a city of 100,000 people
[10:00] Keila Forager: [9:57] Rose Springvale: and SC has the current list
[10:00] Arria Perreault: they gave to the SC not to me
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: some of the emotions on display now are teh ones which make me pessimistic about the merger
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: as has been true for 5 years
[10:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (81, 103, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you know also it’s something about the way we talk to each other too
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: This is what I mean, Pat
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose has stated that we have the list of AA citizens
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: what is gained by the merger?
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: i agree stui
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: its inclucded with the CDS list
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: you have not changed your pessimism pat
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: some people talk to only certain people
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like I don’t normally talk to Patty
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: You judge a tree by it’s fruits, so waht can we say about the merger?
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I can get agreement from Patty
[10:01] Ranma Tardis: again Pat, what is gained by the merger, what are the positive effects?
[10:01] Mikelo Serevi: I’m all for cooperation, but this just doesn’t seem to be working
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo
[10:01] Arria Perreault: I said to the last RA meeting that I was ready to publish it to the portal
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people have to make cooperation
[10:01] Arria Perreault: I am still waiting for the list
[10:01] Pip Torok: Ranma … the proportion of civic-conscious ppl in CDS cd be far greater than in Hampton …
[10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Mik I think AA’s point is exactly that
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it doesn’t come on it’s own
[10:01] Rose Springvale: i’m sorry, i stopped reading transcripts, and no one has asked me for anything
[10:02] Arria Perreault: and election is soon
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: but we don’t have to have the same political system to be cooperative
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS has not been working towad implementing the merger.
[10:02] Sonja Strom: I used to be very much in favor of the merger, and I voted for it when I was in the RA, but now I am beginning to question whether or not it is good for the CDS.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: folks
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: mikelo you can say that CDs govt ignored both EOs, leaving Sudane in. a stable state & rose in a needy unresolved one
[10:02] Rose Springvale: you have peopel here who are from the AA sims
[10:02] Ranma Tardis: we had real problems, community maintance, poverty, real crime
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: does it have to be ‘merger or bust’? can’t we think of alternatives to full merger?
[10:02] Arria Perreault: Tor, I don’t agree
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: they might suit us better
[10:02] Keila Forager: What is is that everyone thinks Rose has all info re: CDS and AA, why can’t you take the initiative to go to the correct person or group for the info you want instead of waiting for it to drop in your lap..
[10:02] Pip Torok agrees with that thought
[10:03] Arria Perreault: we have relly tried to address most of the issues AA poeple told us
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: Jamie, we hardly ignored anyone, we even invited rose to our meetings a few times
[10:03] Ranma Tardis: even now Pat you talk about 2 groups not one
[10:03] Arria Perreault: for exxample in communication
[10:03] Rose Springvale: that isn’t a proposal on the table folks. you have a merger agreement
[10:03] Tor Karlsvalt: here herer Keila
[10:03] Rose Springvale: you can choose to honor it or not
[10:03] Arria Perreault: more we have made efforts, more we got critics
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: rose, try not to think like a lawyer
[10:03] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS has had an inactive govt relative to the merger
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone want to join me on walking the line here ?
[10:03] Sylvia Tinkel: I think the only benefits to the merger are social and cultural therefore there is no need to blend the two entities on a managerial and political level
[10:03] Rose Springvale: mikelo, i never got invitations to any :meetings”
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: let’s think outside of that particular box – ‘honour or renege’
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s kinda funny to see how many times you fall off
[10:03] Arria Perreault: Tor, it’s not true
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and where you land
[10:04] Sonja Strom: Tor, what would you like the government to be more active in in relation to the merger?
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I think we were not helped on our efforts
[10:04] Pip Torok is coming round to Sylvies POV
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: We’ve tried to work with AA, but have goeetn little response from the citizens. Look at this meeting
[10:04] Rose Springvale: who is we and in what way?
[10:04] Rose Springvale: you were all givin notice rightst
[10:04] Keila Forager: There is an agreement between both side, maybe you need to go through it point by point and see if you can presently abide by it, if you can’t this meeting is pointless
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: We here int this very meeting AP that the exectutive did not think it had power in AA.
[10:04] Rose Springvale: you have all been invited to the AA group
[10:04] Arria Perreault: the RA had a real good will
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: who’s we? it’s executive branch not RA from which EOs require direction Mikelo ; that new territory . i
[10:04] Kaseido Quandry: Keila, wonderful way to proceed
[10:05] Arria Perreault: I had a real good will too personally and I have made a lot of things in the domain of the communication
[10:05] Mikelo Serevi: But RA and exec work together, right?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: here is my problem
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: if the agreement on the table is *the merger agreement as written* let’s discuss that
[10:05] Sonja Strom: okay, so Jamie, you want me to give more direction to Rose?
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: new territory needs more admin attn than old is no surprise
[10:05] Rose Springvale: my problem is that this agreement has been under discussion since 2008
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: let’s go with keila’s suggestion, shall we?
[10:05] Keila Forager: Sonja , it’s your job
[10:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The agreement was written but it seems ignored
[10:05] Pip Torok: yespat
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: anyone have teh link to the merger agreement to hand?
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: Sonja, it sounded to me like co
[10:05] Arria Perreault: ok, Pat
[10:06] Sylvia Tinkel: I have RL laundry to do, which will actually be pleasant after this
[10:06] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, good idea, keila
[10:06] Sonja Strom: alright, Rose, you had better start doing as I say, haahaaa
[10:06] Sylvia Tinkel: bye all,
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: and stop telling each other ‘it’s your job’ which is not very constructive
[10:06] Sonja Strom: bye Sylvia
[10:06] Rose Springvale: then i guess you’ll have to actually talk to me sonja
[10:06] Pip Torok: like me, Sylvia! )
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: communication was an issue, yes
[10:06] Arria Perreault: bye Sylvia
[10:06] Sonja Strom: alright Rose, we can increase our contact
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: comms is *clearly* an issue but, it always is
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: But Pat when it is “your job” what should one say?
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that if anyone wants the merger to work they have to stop choosing a side
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: it’s difficult to communicate with someone if you feel they are hostile tho
[10:07] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think finger pointing will help much
[10:07] Arria Perreault: can someone copy paste the URL of the agreement?
[10:07] Rose Springvale: smiles sweetly at pat, i agree
[10:07] Rose Springvale: i have it on notecard
[10:07] Keila Forager: Thank you Tor..and I wasn’t finger pointing, stating a fact
[10:07] Rose Springvale: will put in a box
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they just have to see it as pros and cons…
[10:07] Sonja Strom: offers of help would be helpful
[10:07] Arria Perreault: ok, Rose
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (where pros isn’t prostitutes and Cons aren’t convicts)
[10:07] Object whispers: Ready!
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are all well schooled in seeing negatives
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but not positives
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami is seraching for the merger agreement…
[10:08] Ranma Tardis: but what are the positives in the merger?
[10:08] Rose Springvale: should be able to click the box now
[10:08] Mikelo Serevi: Ideally, ranma, it was all about cooperation
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in any situation you walk a line….
[10:08] Ranma Tardis: to what end?
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and you tip from one way to the other
[10:08] Pip Torok: the advantages that each has from the mission-statement of the other, Ranma
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the influences you have faced
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like I am now
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: let’s take it section by section
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I walk along here
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: 1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA’s managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: The two communities share membership
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could fall off and land in the water
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or I could fall off and land on land
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: one would be good
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: any comments on section 1?
[10:09] Rose Springvale: so
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the other would be bad
[10:09] Rose Springvale: we moved the ims
[10:09] Arria Perreault: If I read the 1st point, it means that you can transfer the rights to the Hippo system to Sonja or SUdane?
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: So, my question is, how can we know that the AA citizens want to be CDS citizens?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: (and CDS original sims don’t have to migrate in this system)
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people just have to decide that on account of whatever experiences that have had
[10:10] Keila Forager: Ask them Mikelo
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whether they think they want the water
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or the land
[10:10] Pip Torok: yes Mikelo, so we need them here to ask them … but where are they?
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: We have invited AA to these meetings
[10:10] Rose Springvale: all rentals have gone to rudeen. No change has been made in the tier collection system, but the current systems are all no tran, a new system was adopted for cds, but has not been implemented
[10:10] Keila Forager: No you don’t, send them an IM or notecard
[10:10] Rose Springvale: mikelo
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: But we can’t force them to show up
[10:11] Rose Springvale: many people, myself included, find this hour for meetings to be unreasonable
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: It makes me think they have no interest in democracy, which is ok
[10:11] Rose Springvale: if you only do what you’ve always done, you will always get the same resutls
[10:11] Pip Torok: and if they dont come, what do we infer from their absence? .. approval of the merger?
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: isnt’ it 1pm in TX?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: try moving your time and place
[10:11] Ranma Tardis: problem with the CDS is so much is done during my working hours
[10:11] Arria Perreault: can Rudeen make changes in the current Hippo system?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: it is SUNDAY noon
[10:11] Keila Forager: I live in a 90 sim estate and is freq individually contacted..
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: it is 6pm here, and many other times in other places
[10:11] Rose Springvale: Arria, i don’t konw. I know she’s been given the power to do so
[10:12] Rose Springvale: but this is one of the things i had hoped not to deal with
[10:12] Rose Springvale: i don’t script
[10:12] Arria Perreault: ok. we can ask her to make a test
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: We will never please everyone, but to have no AA citizens at all
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: They can’t all be in the wrong time zone
[10:12] Frances Ying: i am an AA citizen
[10:12] Rose Springvale: the idea was that CDS needed a new system too
[10:12] Rose Springvale: and actually approved it
[10:12] Arria Perreault: it means also the Exec can set for sale a land in AA?
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I’m gald you came, frances. What do you think about the merger?
[10:12] Arria Perreault: Rose, we are talking about AA now
[10:13] Rose Springvale: confused
[10:13] Frances Ying: i am v new
[10:13] Pip Torok: well in Imotali’s time-zone it certainl is awkward for her ….
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: are we done with section 1?
[10:13] Arria Perreault: still one question
[10:13] Ranma Tardis: other than being a part of each others group, what do we gain?
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: shame we couldn’t link the RA up to group chat
[10:14] Patroklus Murakami: yes arria?
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then it would cascade further
[10:14] Arria Perreault: for example about Sacromonte: the Exec could have decided to block the homestead for a re-development?
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry back the US Census was at the door
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or should the RA transcripts be sent thru Group notices too
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Can the Chancellor appoint officers in the AA group?
[10:14] Mikelo Serevi: But that would be forcing people to participate, stui
[10:14] Pip Torok: what we gain is what ive said once already, Ranma …
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no Mikelo
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they close the chat
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it goes away
[10:14] Ranma Tardis: I do not wish to be in the CDS
[10:15] Rose Springvale: folks i’m a little overwhelmed here. and i’ve got company .. it being sunday noon.
[10:15] Danton Sideways: It’s a question of HOW CDS would “take over” AA
[10:15] Rose Springvale: ah
[10:15] Rose Springvale: danton
[10:15] Ranma Tardis: I am a part of AA as a path to learning and inner peace
[10:15] Arria Perreault: if I read this well, we could
[10:15] Rose Springvale: that is the problem
[10:15] Danton Sideways: that requires dipllomacy
[10:15] Rose Springvale: CDS doesnt’ take over AA. Aa doesnt’ take over CDS
[10:15] Rose Springvale: it is a merger of equals
[10:15] Danton Sideways: which Jamie provided at one point
[10:15] Rose Springvale: i believe it was meant to be that all along
[10:16] Rose Springvale: that is what i represented to AA at least
[10:16] Danton Sideways: Item one says CDS takes over the adinistaion
[10:16] Rose Springvale: no
[10:16] Danton Sideways: *aministration of everything
[10:16] Pip Torok: good thought Danton … maybe the real fight is between the dplomatic and the nondiplomatic ….
[10:16] Arria Perreault: well the way we can decide to stop is not equal
[10:16] Ranma Tardis: why cant the 2 groups exsit side by side in cooperation?
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think AA was ready for that ‘takeover’
[10:16] Sonja Strom: I understood the merger as AA joining the CDS, that is, adopting to the institutions of the CDS.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[10:16] Arria Perreault: here we need a 2/3 majority in the RA
[10:16] Hug & Kiss NX4 Attachment: M&P Hug & Kiss NX Animations ready.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: having responsibilty isn’t a take over
[10:16] Mikelo Serevi: This is what I was thinking, ranma
[10:17] Danton Sideways: Soime people seem to think it is
[10:17] Arria Perreault: the RA is the RA of all, sorry
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: “all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens,”
[10:17] Ranma Tardis: AA remains a group and the CDS remains a group
[10:17] Danton Sideways: RA is not the problem, administration is
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: and thereby part of the CDS political system
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I think everyone agreed that the RA was for all
[10:17] Mikelo Serevi: But rose, the RA/exec does have power over AA
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think AA ppl were really prepared for that
10:17] Pip Torok: thats not in the agreement Ranma
[10:17] Arria Perreault: I understand now we could ask the Chancellor to block Sacromonte for our project
[10:17] Rose Springvale: pat, i think you are talking about me now
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I recall something that is true for lots of CDS meetings
[10:18] Rose Springvale: Arria
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: It does seem like a takeover, though I don’t think we’re interested in taking over
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Micael said it once
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: not really rose
[10:18] Danton Sideways: I think it requires putting gloves on (not punching gloves”
[10:18] Rose Springvale: so long as land and tier doesn’t change
[10:18] Ranma Tardis: the CDS get very into the letering of the laws and not the intent
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it has to do with trustworthy space
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the lack of true dialogue
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: lots of CDS meetings
[10:18] Sonja Strom: Stui, what more true dialogue would you like to have?
[10:18] Danton Sideways: right to trust
[10:18] Pip Torok: Mikelo … it should be a _connection_ … the real meaning of Anschluss btw
[10:18] Danton Sideways: but you have to be trust-worthy
[10:19] Arria Perreault: I am done with point 1, Pat
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are taken up with a few people having dialogic conversation
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the rest
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well is not appreciated
[10:19] Patroklus Murakami: problem is, a lot of ppl don’t trust each other
[10:19] Rose Springvale: folks, i am going to have to go. I think you need to ask yourselves if your misgiving are based on fact, or your own dislike of certain people and their positions.
[10:19] Arria Perreault: I think Sonja has asked a question about point 2
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, cu later rose
[10:19] Rose Springvale: thank you for your interest
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people address statements to certain people
[10:19] Patroklus Murakami: bye rose, thanks for coming
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: see you Rose
[10:19] Danton Sideways: Bye Rose
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: On rent boxes, Arria, there’s some facts to clear up. Sudane had the right to run the AA rent boxes since last year. She does not WANT it because she does not WANT to change from the system SHE created, which works good for her but does not really really permit any powers ot be give to anyonen other than Sudane (through Rudeen and her secret CSDF backup owner). And through the end of my term, we considered the AA HIPPO bixes an exeperiment. Which IN MY VIEWS Sonja should have acted to bring into CDS .. but that’s HER choice. Rose has always wanted to dump the rent box job on Sudane, or SOMEone.
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for coming rose.
[10:19] Sonja Strom: bye Rose
[10:19] Arria Perreault: bye Rose
[10:19] Pip Torok: ok Rose I hope youve gathered my thoughts at least
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so listen only for the responses from that person
[10:19] Sonja Strom: we will be in more contact
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the rest is noise
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: On Sacromomnte, CDS HAS zoing control there now! But you must deal with tenant issues like the rest of CDS, not just do a socialist seizure of private property
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not dialogue at CDS for the most part
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s monologue
[10:20] Pip Torok: “and the rest is silence” (Hamlet)
[10:20] Arria Perreault: Ok, Jamie, we will find a way with Sudane
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: let’s try section 2, eh?
[10:20] Arria Perreault: I am fine with two systems during a transistion period
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: 2. AA’s SL groups will be maintained and administratively supported by CDS government, including the public interest lists; members of those lists may also be invited as appropriate to join other CDS groups. The exception is that SL groups used for land administration (in other words, government, not citizen groups) may be altered and consolidated.
[10:20] Ranma Tardis: the CDS is very good about silencing people who disagree with them
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: Well, Arria, with respect to the LRA, “we” MUST mean “Chancellot” under our laws
[10:21] Keila Forager: I totally agree Ranma
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t see any one beign silenced here
[10:21] Sonja Strom: Jamie, at one point this term I contacted Rose to let her know the RA would like to work on developing Sacromonte, and Rose responded that they had no right to do it.
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: Two systems during a transition is exacly what we were doing
[10:21] Kaseido Quandry: hey Gwyn
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: and must respectfully disagree with sonja and keila
[10:21] Arria Perreault: yes, Jamie
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: but soeone will have to make one of them change eventually
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi sorry…
[10:21] Pip Torok: oh Ranma … really! … how about a helpful positive statement!
[10:21] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think we want to silence anyone
[10:21] Ranma Tardis: but what they are saying is being put down by unfair tatics
[10:22] Schmilsson Nilsson: Thanks for having me here. Have to run.
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: Although, some of the things you’re saying don’t seem fair to me, ranma
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have comments on section 2 of the merger agreement?
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: Snja, if I had bene you I would have brought THAT to the RA and then the SC
[10:22] Arria Perreault: in french, I would use “on” as undertmined and not “nous” (which would include me)
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: As EO Rose works … for … you
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: but maybe you have not managed her very well?
[10:22] Ranma Tardis: well I left the CDS to join Kendra in phase III
[10:22] Pip Torok: imo its for AA people to talk about this … what can CDS people add in all honesty?
[10:23] Sonja Strom: bye Schmilsson
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: but, um, maybe your supervision of her has not gone well? And is that only her fault?
[10:23] Keila Forager: Why Pip, it’s a merger BETWEEN Cds and AA
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: why do you say that Pip?
[10:23] Sonja Strom: Jamie, I did bring that to the RA.
[10:23] Mikelo Serevi: My understanding was, rose has not been cooperative
[10:23] Ranma Tardis: I support Rose
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: And you heard that from which side, Mikelo?
[10:23] Pip Torok: then if you left the CDS Ranma, how do you think you are helping us her and now?
[10:23] Delia Lake: in what ways, Mikelo?
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, baiting your successor is not really very fair. perhaps you could give sonja the benefit of your advice privately?
[10:23] Sonja Strom: I did not bring it to the SC… maybe I should have done that.
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my understanding is that we come to RA to mudsling
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: I find Rose very cooperative
[10:24] Ranma Tardis: Rose brought me into AA
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: Pat I like Sonja but if you are the RA it is your job, not to slag employees, but to have your heda of vovt\esal with them
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that depending on which side of the hall we sit
[10:24] Arria Perreault: Jamie, many people have tried to find ways to cooperate, not only with Rose, but more generally
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should stop discussing rose, since she is no longer here?
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Obviously she wanted a different chancellor, but I am sure she would work with anyone.
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: Rose is always cooperative as long as you treat her nicely
[10:24] Delia Lake: i keep hearing that Rose has not been cooperative but I hear nothing to back that up
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we pick up the mud and hurl it across the front
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: sortr, “have your head of govt deal with them”
[10:24] Pip Torok: Stui … in that case be the person wih no mud to sling ….
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: indeed
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip
[10:25] Delia Lake: if we are to just throw accusations out with no back up we will not get very far
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we can look at s. 3?
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I often find I don’t mud sling
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I just ask for facts
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I think CDS govt seems to have thought Rose had all the responsibility for AA management.
[10:25] Arria Perreault: on point 3, I have many questions
[10:25] Jamie Palisades smiles : who’ve you brought in, Pat? If you want to slag personalities here, you;re not immune, How about we talk about objective performance of duties, not personalities?
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: 3. As a project operated in Linden Lab’s “Educational sim” class, AA sims may only be transferred to another duly qualified nonprofit organization. AA sims will be maintained in their current nonprofit status, and [transferred to a new nonprofit organization as stated in paragraph 5.
The AA sims will remain at their current rents, tier and pricing, for one year after acceptance, so long as the Linden sim tier prices applicable to them do not change. [See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the me
[10:26] Pip Torok: yes lets look at section3
[10:26] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[10:26] Jayme Mistwalker: agrees
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the merged estates.] Public land and buildings in AA shall become the property of CDS. All AA community builds will be subject to CDS law regarding community assets and theme build protection for AA’s recreation of 13th century Arabic Granada, Spain. AA makes no representation that such structures will be available as copies for archive purposes, but will
take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to supply archived copies and content where such
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all I often am forced to return from being called filibuster or perhaps disruptive
[10:26] Arria Perreault: first one: should this rl org be only under american law? if it is under american law, what are the consequences for non-US citizen?
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: where such exist. CDS agrees to take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to support the maintenance and operation of such buildings.
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: i didnt see anything in that section that has not worked. Did anyone else?
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two different things to discuss separately IMHO
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no present nonconforming builds or covenant violations on the AA sims. All building, structure and style terms of the present AA covenant will be retained.
[10:26] Arria Perreault: for me, it’s a real concern
[10:27] Arria Perreault: I hope Jamie can give an answer
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: Pat? Typing in the whle thing is a conversation blocker, slow down please
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: to what, Arris, sorry?
[10:27] Keila Forager: SL is US, so why shouldn’t rl org be us?
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: *Arria
[10:27] Arria Perreault: should this rl org be only under american law? if it is under american law, what are the consequences for non-US citizen?
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: US law?
[10:27] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, as I understand it, that’s an issue with what Linden Lab requires to ceritfy non-profit status
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: ah
[10:27] Arria Perreault: no
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: good one! Not sure we can do it well today
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: how is a NP any more worrisuome than a single AV holing titlle to all of CDS and the moneuy?
[10:28] Arria Perreault: can a non US citizen be member of the board for example
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: money?*
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: That is a good question, arria
[10:28] Arria Perreault: what are the consequences for members rearding rl laws
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: today all of CDS is under US law because the primary and legit owner of “Rudeen Edo” is a US citizen
[10:28] Pip Torok: Arria, imo it comes down to what law the owner of LL hardware is under (I meant jurisdiction not law)
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Any Board would be safer for the group than one AV.
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: oh, as it linden labs
[10:29] Kaseido Quandry: I haven’t done a 50(c)(3) in about 15 years, so I can’t asnwer – but it’s an easily answered question
[10:29] Arria Perreault: yes, but it’s different
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: except (smile at gwyn) when Rudeen is being driven by someone in a different country, i suppose
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: no it isn’t
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s hear the answer then, Kas.
[10:29] Delia Lake: how is that different, Arria?
[10:29] Pip Torok: and the way I see it is that it is under State of California law ….
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: We trust the current arrangement personally.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: but it really isn’t safe in an objective manner.
[10:30] Arria Perreault: I think that LL provide a service and if someone has trouble with it or does something bad, the american law is applied
[10:30] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll look it up and post and answer on the forums later – but *why are you asking this question two years into the process* for gods’ sakes?!
[10:30] Pip Torok: (though of course I could be wrong)
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: .. let me ask, Arria, is the nonprofit copr really the root problem here? Earlier I was hearing Pat, Mikelo, Rose, Sonja and others mostly talk about communication problems between a branch of CDS govt and AA EO. That’s not a jurisdiction or law issue, no
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, we actually asked that question in 2005
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we didn’t like the answer back then.
[10:30] Arria Perreault: in our case, we take a responsibility by being a member of this org
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But things change
[10:30] Arria Perreault: especially a financial responsibility
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think the non-profit is much of an issue. just a stick to beat the current RA and chancellor with
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria, Sudane could legally sell the land under our feet as we speak
[10:31] Arria Perreault: I don’t agree, Pat
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: the next RA could appoint two nominees to be teh CDS reps
[10:31] Kaseido Quandry: so, the RA voted for the merger agreement, and now the dissidents seek to overturn the result? Is that your democracy?
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: nto a difficultl decision
[10:31] Ranma Tardis: yes she can
[10:31] Delia Lake: the nonprofit status of AA is a rl legal requirement as i read it
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: no kas
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: A NP board would be far more stable than a single AV
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: the previousl government made no progress on this and now blames the current one
[10:32] Jamie Palisades smiles. as of today the person or persons who control Rudeen acn take all of CDS money with a single act. That is NOT Rose who turns it all over to Rudeen. The legal recourse of CDS would be through US law (or the law of the locality of an illegal user of Rudeen) – unless we think Linden Labs actually takes enforcement actions
[10:32] Pip Torok agrees with Tor and something we should all be aware of, while knowing Sudane is not that sort of person … anything but …
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: The trouble is, NP board members would have to reveal themselves
[10:32] Arria Perreault: and what happen if the activities of AA are considered as non compatible with this status by LL?
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a more subtle question I’m actually chairperson of the board of a non-profit in my country; if I call Rose and Sudane tomorrow and ask them to transfer all land into the name of “my” organisation, would everybody be happy with it? And if not, why not?
[10:32] Arria Perreault: LL can act against VDI
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: Some might see that as a privacy issue
[10:32] Arria Perreault: ?
[10:32] Ranma Tardis: sighs, it would be in small claims court
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Pip, I don”t mean to suggest Sudane would.
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: Note, the prior regime (Ulrika) used its power in a very unilateral way – as I recall, you didn;t like it
[10:32] Ranma Tardis: in the USA it is about actual damages
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: let’s stick to the AA non-profit, and leave whether CDS should have one for the CDS sims to another day
[10:33] Arria Perreault: can LL act against VDI ?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: of course
[10:33] Mikelo Serevi: gwyn, it would have to be decided democratically, not just with a phone call
[10:33] Arria Perreault: good to know
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Mikelo!
[10:33] Ranma Tardis: thus to bring suit for 100 or so dollars is goofy
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the point is, we should decide that democratically, not just take the agreement literally?
[10:33] Pip Torok: ??? Ranma
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Pat, yes, we could just start with the AA sims)
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Good question Gwyn. I’d love to see a nonUS nonprofit and I KNOW it would work for LL due to other instances. Old AA’s corp, by the way, was Canadian But if it was you, well, as a CDS citizen I would want some conttrols around your fiduciary duty As we have now with the AA nonprofit. As opposed to a lawless, gullible “trust me”
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks gwyn, I was mentioning Sudane cuz I don’t think a board or NP copr is to be feared.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: the merger agreement *only* needs a non-profit for the AA sims
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I agree!
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: indeed preferable.
[10:34] Delia Lake: and, i might also as, Gwyn, would you be interested in, or willing to join the board of VDI?
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Pat, that’s right
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is the question Arria asked before — am I allowed to?
[10:35] Arria Perreault: can a non US citizen be member?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly.
[10:35] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure a nonprofit is trustworthy by definition
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not only member — chairperson of the board for instance
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And if so, what does that entail? Do we need to register with the US IRS?
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a non profit is less trustworthy than any other setup why ?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we” meaning any non-US citizen
[10:35] Ranma Tardis: my point is the CDS has to be either non profit or profit, legally we can not be both
[10:36] Delia Lake: VDI is registered with the US IRS
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Ranma, yes! I’d like to address that later)
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Delia
[10:36] Arria Perreault: and finally what are the relation between VDI and the CDS money, regarding rl taxes for example?
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i think that is an important point ranma
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I infer that I’d have to register first with the US IRS as a person
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: there is NOTHING in the merger, fully completed, that requies a nonprofit or corporate overship for old CDS. It’s only a Q of whether you want the discount .. AND an issue for who in CDS is willing to be IDENTIFIED as working for the nonprofit. THAT is an anonimity issue – and DOES in some states bar anonymous avatars from being on the board
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you have an idea what that entails? (I actually do)
[10:37] Ranma Tardis: yes that too is a problem
[10:37] Arria Perreault: I think all these points have to be cleared
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ironically, in my country, non-profits can have anonymous persons as members, although not as chairpersons of the board)
[10:37] Patroklus Murakami: i think we begin to see why neither this goverment nor the previous one made any progress on this issue
[10:37] Arria Perreault: yes, Pat
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: But yes, besides the difficulties, I think a NP could be fine
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Pat. That was my point. I was not joking when I said that we started discussing this in 2005.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: well, gwyn, i do not think that a US nonprofit can have only US taxpayer directors, fwiw, but the GENEREAL point about anonymity and jurisdiction is a good one. I donl;t fault Rose for using a US corp last year – we discussed it — it was fast, and better than leaving the thing in the old, Manen-affiliated corp, as he’d left.
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, laws change, of course.
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: We’ve had higher priorities though
[10:38] Delia Lake: i am on the board of VDI and under my rl name
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: so is the question citizenship or anonymity?
[10:38] Arria Perreault: for me, having a rl org for CDS (even for a part) is a real concern
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Jamie, and in any case, AA is AA
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, why?
[10:39] Ranma Tardis: in the US one has to be a real person, a real ID and a real tax number
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue, Kas, is really: how can ANY citizen participate in the non-profit if they wish — and not be excluded for, mmmh, legal or administrative issues.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: Kas, they are both legit questions – though I agree with Pat on this much – I am not sure you have to solve this one as a gating condition for the merger being allowed to complete.
[10:39] Ranma Tardis: the IRS is on the floor beyneth me at work
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: i agree with jamie on this
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Jamie… but that has to be a consensual point… because right now it certainly isn’t.
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well i agree too!
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And as said, if the question is: “Rose doesn’t want the ownership of the AA sims to be in VDI”, then I have mmmh…. at least 3 non-profits in stand-by, one of them in NY.
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Imotali
RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 3
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:32 pm
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All would be as “opaque” as VDI of course — no reason to trust any of them!
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: thing is, this is in the ‘too hard’ box because first of all, it’s hard and secondly, we have been led to believe for several months that the AA citizens are revolting (if you see what i mean)
[10:41] Kaseido Quandry: oof, Imotali!
[10:41] Pip Torok: hi Imotali!!!
[10:41] Imotali Antiesse: sorry kas
[10:41] Imotali Antiesse: lol
[10:41] anissa2008 GossipGirl: hi everyone
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, i just need to make a call to Rose
[10:41] Sonja Strom: hi anissa
[10:41] Sonja Strom: welcome
[10:41] Imotali Antiesse: over here anis
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is — would that be acceptable?
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think the letter of the merger agreement is really is question
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: hi anissa
[10:42] Danton Sideways: Having rl people that you can ientify is BETTER, in my opinion
[10:42] anissa2008 GossipGirl shouts: where?
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: and, um, Gwyn, you are saying you would be OK if a US NY nonprofit is used, as long as it was yours? sorry, I missed the point maybe?
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: HI Imotali, hi anissa
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: are we really talking about who gets control here?
[10:42] Imotali Antiesse: hei Lil
[10:42] Keila Forager: Sounds like it Jamie..
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: can it be as simple as “mine mine. no, mine mine”?
[10:42] Keila Forager:
[10:42] Jamie Palisades:
[10:42] Mikelo Serevi: yes, the NP is rather a control issue, esp if they have ben created already
[10:42] Delia Lake: and Gwyn that you “have” a NY nonprofit? as a non US citizen?
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think the merger is too hard or bad. The “friendly nation” idea is my fallback postition tho
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my point is — if any citizen wishes want to be part of the non-profit, are they allowed to? (legally, administratively, practically…)
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: Soooooo Gwyn would like one from Gwyn better, and it woudl be safe and acceptabl,e but the one with Rose and Delia isn;t? enlighten me
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will we have to say: “sorry, you can’t be part of it, it’s too complicated”
[10:43] Delia Lake is not sure how VDI is opaque either. it is Rose, me and Micael under our rl names
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: I think this is possible, there are web hosting co-ops that have international memberships
[10:43] Keila Forager: and shouldn’t the NP stand for what CDS is about..
[10:43] Danton Sideways: Sudane is opaque
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “opaque” in the sense that we don’t know if anyone else can be part of it, Delia, or what steps to take to be part of it
[10:44] Keila Forager: Not just any old NP
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes, well, I’m turning the tables here and suggest looking it from the other angle.
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, honestly, i see any such corp as being excatly like Sudane – to meet CDS’ needs – in the sense that it would need to be a long term trusted “trustee” kind of thing ABOVE politics
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, that seems a little disingenuous, if you have working experience with US nonprofits
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just with two really, Kas
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: i thikn “what form do you trust” is a fake issue, and WHO will you trust as the real one
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is tin, the other huge.
[10:44] Delia Lake: that’s not opaque, language issue maybe
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *tiny
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: If you ask me, the idea of a corp owning CDS is long overdue.
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: the law’s not terribly complex, and it doesn’t change much at all
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Jamie. So it’s not the form, but the people?
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: look, we’ve been told the NP is a big issue because it’s evidence that ‘CDS is not holding up its side of the bargain’
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, like Pat says
[10:45] Ranma Tardis: I admit to having no experience with non profit, I am a part of the excetive branch of the USGov
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: are we agreed that it is not such a big deal after all?
[10:45] Jamie Palisades: Well, you said Gwyn’s US NP is OK, and Rose’s isn;t
[10:45] Keila Forager: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.
[10:45] Delia Lake: other people could be elected to the dVDI boar
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why we’re trying to figure out, where is the “problem” really.
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes delia, that would be a way forward
[10:45] Danton Sideways: any people – as long as we trust them
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: provided they are US citizens
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: probably
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Danton I would say, any people, as long as we can elect them in and out of office
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: you don’t really have to trust them – IRS agents handle that problem for you :p
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Kas
[10:46] Danton Sideways: yes appoint them or cancel
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: May I mention a specific concrete problem? No, Pat, nonUS citizens can be on a NP in the US. like Gwyn’s. But here’s an issue: SUDANE (nice person, trustworthy, also Gwyn’s bus partner) does not WANT to be on any nonprofit boards. Period.
[10:46] Ranma Tardis: beware they are mean
[10:46] Danton Sideways: as an administrative measure
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: Sudane;s hard to replace!
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: if we are agreed this is not such a problem, can we move on?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[10:47] Mikelo Serevi: ok pat
[10:47] Ranma Tardis: the issue is for a complete merger the CDS has to become a non profit
[10:47] Jamie Palisades: a solution that means we have to lose Sudane as a EO would be a big pain in the rear for CDS
[10:47] Kaseido Quandry: no, Ranma, that’s just wrong
[10:47] Delia Lake: Gwyn, i’m getting confused he re. you say you don’t know if non US citizens can be on boards of US nonprofits, or if there can be anonymous board members yet you said earlier that you HAVE a nonprofit in New York? what am i missing to make sense of this?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not quite, Ranma. It just needs to create a new one for the AA sims.
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: that’s another issue ranma. can we be both?
[10:48] Danton Sideways: There could also be differential tier
[10:48] Ranma Tardis: it has nothing to do with who is a citizen of what country
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Ranma, CDS doesn’t have to be NP.
[10:48] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, I can’t see any reason why not
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have access to one, Delia, in the sense that it is a nonprofit that would definitely be able to accept the AA sims. but it’s not “my” non-profit at all.
[10:48] Danton Sideways: since it is lower in np AA
[10:48] Ranma Tardis: the people in the cds are making profit
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not a member in that one
[10:48] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not getting a cut, ranma
[10:49] Patroklus Murakami: there are some potential problems with having dual systems. if the RL non-profit takes direction from the CDS, should non-AA citizens get to determine who the board members are?
[10:49] Ranma Tardis: do you get a salary?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, also, it’s a specific nonprofit that won’t have a discount from LL. They asked, and LL refused to grant them one. But that’s a secondary issue
[10:49] Jamie Palisades: damn, sound like i missed a great graft opportunity
[10:49] Kaseido Quandry: Salary is not profit, Ranma
[10:49] Jayme Mistwalker: doesnt the profit help fund entertainment?
[10:49] Delia Lake: ok. so can you enlighten us as to what “have access to one” means? i guess i could say that i have access to other nonprofits also
[10:49] Mikelo Serevi: no salary, though I get a stipend for being archivist
[10:49] Ranma Tardis: you voted yourself that money
[10:49] Pip Torok: Ranma I’ll keep saying it: the CDS is here to survive financially, not “make a profit” ….
[10:49] Jayme Mistwalker: it’s not like the RA is out buying gucci
[10:49] Mikelo Serevi: I actually didn’t want the stipend
[10:49] Ranma Tardis: the reserve is too high
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Access means just that — I can ask them on the CDS/AA behalf to accept the island transfer
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: let’s foucs here?
[10:50] Mikelo Serevi: Well, that’s different from making a profit, since there’s no distribution
[10:50] Mikelo Serevi: ok kas
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Good I hate Gucci
[10:50] Danton Sideways: CDS members accept higher prices and a reserve
[10:50] Danton Sideways: *old CDS
[10:50] Jamie Palisades: not sure that’s enough Gwyn. Do you TRUST them to keep CDS property without trashing it? Like the Ulrikaquake
[10:50] Ranma Tardis: we need to do this for wanting to do this and not monatary gain
[10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy, here comes Ulrika.
[10:51] Mikelo Serevi: Yeah, I’m uncomfortable about having a simple transfer to an arbitrary corp
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the focus mostly is: how important it is for the merger to have a different NP to hold the AA sims; then: if the sims are transferred to another nonprofit, where should it be located and is *any* citizen allowed to be a member and be elected to its board? And finally: can *existing* nonprofits absorb the AA sims or do we need to create a new nonprofit for that?
[10:51] Delia Lake: and if this unknown nonprofit were willing to accept an island, or 6 of them, would it be made known what this nonprofit is and who runs it?
[10:51] Jamie Palisades: Tor, it;s relevant only in that it illustrates that a one avatar system has a heavy risk
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: I trust them as much as I trust VDI
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Delia.
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: annd how do we get to a place where CDS as a whole could trust oe?
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: one
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: I can’t fathom the requirement for *another* nonprofit; easy enough to replace the VDI board
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: or can we?
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: As a newcommer, after hearing all the Ulrika stories, I am MORE comfortable with a corp than with a single AV.
[10:52] Ranma Tardis: please stop bashing my friend Ulrika or should we call her snowflake?
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: (Though Pat points out, NOT needed to resolve this term)
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: yes. I wonder if that’s an alternative suggestion that would please everyone.
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: and, as we don’t need to resolve this term, i suggest we move on
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: and if the problem is people wanting to be on the board while remaining anonymous, that *is* a problem under US law
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: these ideas need quite a bit of discussion
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll paste s.4 in three parts
[10:53] Ranma Tardis: will not float my friend Pat
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: That’s good point, kas
[10:53] Kaseido Quandry: I can see how it could be done, but it’d be fairly expensive
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might be able to do so by proxy, Kas, but then it raises the next issue — would be allow citizens to vote by proxy?
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: apologies to anyone seeing lots of text fly by
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: And this is a practical point for transfer to another NP
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly
[10:53] anissa2008 GossipGirl: apology accepted:p
[10:53] Danton Sideways: My head spins
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: 4. The CDS RA will be increased by a number equal to the higher of
* (a) two, or
* (b) the number of additional members that would be added to the RA under CDS law by reason of the additional number of citizens added under Para 1 above.
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe anissa
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: In calculating that number, (a) each new CDS citizen from AA will be counted, plus (b) any “converting dual citizens.” A “converting dual citizen” is a current CDS citizen who wishes to designate AA’s sims as their primary residence within CDS; who does so by informing the CDS chancellor in writing within a reasonably set deadline; and who does not currently serve on the CDS RA.
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: The additional vacant RA positions will be filled by a process designated by AA management, consistent with AA law, from among persons who are (a) new CDS citizens from AA will be counted and (b) any “converting dual citizens.” The newly selected RA members shall serve either (a)] the remainder of the current RA term [or (b), if they are selected less than one month prior to the closing date for RA candidacy in the next RA general election, for the remainder of the current term plus the next term.
[10:54] Kaseido Quandry: gwyn, that could be done in corporate bylaws – I don’t see much problem
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: no probleme with any of this i assume?
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think there’s a problem with 4, no
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: nope
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: pat, seems to me that all of THAT one has worked out or become moot OK
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: okay, s5
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We grumbled a bit at the beginning of the last term, but we pretty much accepted everything
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the ben
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: or the benefit of the CDS government.
[10:55] anissa2008 GossipGirl: Patroklus can you make a notecard and send it to us?
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: The estate owner for the AA Sims for the first year will be nominated by AA, to serve until the eighth calendar day after the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and afterwards by the usual CDS government methods. The AA EO must (a) act as an officer or agent of the new nonprofit entity; (b) agree to report to and take direction from the CDS government under the same terms as the current CDS EO, subject to the terms explicitly stated in this offer;
[10:55] anissa2008 GossipGirl: maybe we can read it at ease then
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: and (c) agree to cooperate with the affiliation or merger of the new nonprofit entity, with a later new CDS nonprofit organization, if at a later time the CDS by legislation elects to subject the ownership of its other CDS sims to control by a nonprofit organizations.
[10:55] Kaseido Quandry: arissa, the meger agreement is in the blue box
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: in the blue box arissa
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the notecard is on the light blue cube in front of Sonja, anissa)
[10:55] Jamie Palisades: anissa, it’s all in the posted RA minutes etc
[10:55] anissa2008 GossipGirl: oh okay thanks
[10:55] Frances Ying: i have to go, bye everyone
[10:56] Kaseido Quandry: thanks for coming, Frances!
[10:56] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘final merger agt’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Locus%20Amoenus/115/163/23 ).
[10:56] Patroklus Murakami: same issue as s.3 yes?
[10:56] Patroklus Murakami: bye frances
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, here we have an *additional* problem. What happens if the Chancellor is not allowed/too complicated legally or administravely to be part of the board?
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: bye frances
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does that mean that a Chancellor that knows beforehand that they cannot be part of the board will not be allowed to run as a candidate?
[10:56] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn: then we have the wrong legal structure
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, *tell me* these questions weren’t raised and discussed when this thing was originally negotiated!
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: hey Solomon!
[10:57] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sol
[10:57] Jamie Palisades: which you yourself point out is not the case, my lil portugues buddy who runs US nonprofits
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: What prevents the Chancellor from being on the board?
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: kas, there were some, ahem, issues around discussing anything when this was passed
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue is that *any* citizen should be able to run for Chancellor if they wish. This clause of the agreement would just give some citizens that right.
[10:57] Solomon Mosely waves, settling in
[10:57] Solomon Mosely: hi all
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: oh, on jamie’s alp i see
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: Yeah, Pat claims that the evil nonCDSF RA and chancellor muzzles him they must have been pretty powerful folks
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I don’t *run* them lol — I’m just a member!)
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: like the chancellor would be, gwyn
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor: legal issues, for instance.
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that we have a Cuban or Chinese Chancellor
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … they might not be allowed to be part of the board of the NP
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so they couldn’t run for Chancellor
[10:58] Patroklus Murakami: this got rammed through the RA with v little discussion. when qns were raised, we were told they were ‘offensive’. it inhibited thorough discussion
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. thus limiting “running for Chancellor” as a privilege of some “selected few”
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: Drop the FUD gwyn can we agree that any leglal structure we use must accomodate any CDS-legal chancellor candidate, who must be able to sit on or place a rep on that board? Is say “rep” in case anonymity is an issue
[10:59] Keila Forager: But somehow it still got included as part of the agreement that past
[10:59] anissa2008 GossipGirl: that’s not really democratic, no offense
[10:59] Patroklus Murakami: that’s true gwyn but… this is the agreement that RA made
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas.
[10:59] Ranma Tardis: which can be broken in July
[11:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (81, 103, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[11:00] Jamie Palisades: as of today CDS can change the law and put anyone it wants on that silly VDI board, or move AA to a DIFFERENT board after June, no? Assuming you silly peoiple don;t destroy the merger before then
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Isn’t the board really going to be passive?
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, yes
[11:01] Ranma Tardis: it is up to the people of AA to contnue or depart
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends on what “passive” means
[11:01] Mikelo Serevi: passive in theory
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: is it really going to be a problem if a very vew cannot be on the board?
[11:01] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A typical example… imagine that the board decides to resell the land to, say, Desmond.
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: all it can do is hold the property and conduct such activitiy as is appropriate for a 501(c)(3)
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is nothing in the merger agreement that prevents that from happening.
[11:01] Ranma Tardis: as always I refuse to give my quiet passive consent
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: I see G, but we are probably not likely to see that happen.
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, that would terminate the nonprofit status, and open the board members to civil and criminal charges
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: and Sudane could seel to Caladon now.
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: that’s more blue sky that Sundane wiping the sims. Do be real.
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why would that terminate the nonprofit status? They could sell the sims without profit
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I think that is a red herring.
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Any board would have to vote.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Surely nonprofits can get rid of their assets, and get a small fee to support their activities doing that.
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: three of the trustees would have to agree.
[11:03] Kaseido Quandry: the purpose of the nonprofit, approved by the IRS, is to manage certain properties in Second Life and conduct educational and cutltural activities
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: so, we’re back to ‘trust’ again
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Tor — and what’s the problem with that?
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: NPs can donate excess to other NPs
[11:03] Kaseido Quandry: to do otherwise opens the directors up to US legal charges
[11:03] Ranma Tardis: what if the citizens of AA want to remain non profit?
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ok. So they could transfer it to another NP.
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, a coporation can – a specific purpose 501(c)(3) cannot
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think three trustees wouls agree to sell the sims unless the RA instructed them too
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I don’t see why they couldn’t agree on that
[11:04] Ranma Tardis: the RA has too much power
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: this is not a real issue.
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another issue, Ranma…
[11:04] Ranma Tardis: it is the issue of freedom
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Kas… I’m glad you think that way, but the point is, it’s really just a question to transfer trust.
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Kas. A corp would still be favorable to one AV having ALL the real power.
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: no, Gwyn, it’s not
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes it is
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: one is a mater of trust, one is a matter of trust plus very vigorous enforcement of US law
[11:05] anissa2008 GossipGirl: i agree with ranma personally
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: that is it! We TRUST Sudane.
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kas. Then it means that it *has* to be a US nonprofit then
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: or canadian law
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a Canadian one.
[11:06] Ranma Tardis: also anything fincianal is done by people in the open, not doing so might bring up charges under the Patroit act
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: folks, we are at the two hour mark. i think we are adding to the box marked ‘non-profit’ issues
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: “Sudane is nice” is a very different thing from “Directors can go to RL jail”
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we move on and complete consideration of all the merger agreement before we conclude
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: okay?
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: agreed
[11:06] Solomon Mosely: if this is such an issue, can’t the exec and ra direct the NP board to modify the charter?
[11:06] Pip Torok: agreed
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: ok pat
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: Solomon, yes!
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, Kas — the merger agreement says that the AA sims are going to be transferred to ANOTHER non-profit now Surely taht is allowed?
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Gwyn wasn’t here earlier.
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: okay, section 6 follows
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: 6. CDS will open a funded local sim event programming panel, on the same terms to be used for other CDS communities, for the AA estate. CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no theme, feasibility or appropriateness issues with the cultural and event programming activities presently conducted on ther AA sims.
[11:07] Ranma Tardis: I feel like I am at a CDS meeting, am I the only AA citizen left?
[11:07] Jamie Palisades: amen: Gwyneth Llewelyn: .. lt’s really just a question to transfer trust. .. will CDS every trust anyone other than the original folks who kicked out the last owners?
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: Ranma, look over my head.
[11:07] Jamie Palisades: This is a CDS meeting/ CDS including AA — until some of you undo that.
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very funny, Jamie
[11:08] Ranma Tardis: two
[11:08] Jamie Palisades: Gwynnie, i am conpletely serious
[11:08] Solomon Mosely: actaually, a new np doesnt have to be formed, did you already cover that?
[11:08] Ranma Tardis: but you are a member of the cds too
[11:08] Jamie Palisades: i gave up power happily – that’s how democraices work – maybe not social democracies?
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The you work under a delusion, and I’m afraid nothing in my power can change that
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: yes solomon thanks
[11:08] Keila Forager: Seems to me you are all discussing an issue that was already voted on and approved. Shouldn’t the issue be “yes” we can do or “no ” we won’t?
[11:08] Arria Perreault: I think we should decide that AA is only a geographical term …
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: yes sol
[11:08] Kaseido Quandry: thank you Keila!
[11:08] Arria Perreault: we all are CDS citizen
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: i assume no problems with section 6?
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: this has happened, hasn’t it?
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think so. I thought this is pretty much what the regional committees are for
[11:09] Ranma Tardis: well speaking as a AA citizen and only a AA citizen, I am against the continuation of the merger. No amount of talk will change my mind
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree AP. I wish we could all see ourselves as one group. Indeed many in AA were/are CDS.
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll post s.7
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: 7. This offer will remain open for 60 days from the date this resolution is adopted. AA may accept by its current EO so stating in writing, so long as:
(a) he/she confirms that a specific map of the combined CDS-AA sim territories, which has been approved by the RA, also is acceptable to AA; and
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, 7 is ok, Pat
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s “past tense”
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: (b) The CDS government and AA EO are satisfied, at the time of acceptance, that] a substantial number of AA residents have not indicated the intent to leave AA at the time of combination.
CDS and AA will submit a territory sim join request to Linden Lab, when and if that acceptance is received and those conditions are met] within the allotted time. [CDS will pay the applicable sim location transfer fees.
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all of it happened
[11:10] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: s.8
[11:10] Ranma Tardis: I say to dual members enjoy being in the CDS without those who refuse to have anything to do with them
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we can go to 8
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: The so-called ‘wasp’ clause
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: or Pat clause
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally don’t think that 8 is really a “problem”
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie
[11:11] Arria Perreault: We know the problem of this point: AA community can decide on both site
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: Yes?
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: well, let’s personalise issues
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: why not?
[11:11] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we can do this merger. And I see AA people runing for RA. So they are becoming part of CDS institutions.
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: Arria, i thikn it is an option for either side, not just AA
[11:12] Arria Perreault: they can decide as AA community but they have a representation in the RA. And the RA need a 2/3 vote
[11:12] Jamie Palisades: and I thikn this meeting is about whetehr CDS should pul the trigger and kill it
[11:12] Arria Perreault: it’s just inequal
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Obviously a year with only two elections may not be a lot of time for both to merge totally, legally and culturally.
[11:12] Patroklus Murakami: no, not kill jamie. just go for something different. more equal
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: true arria, it is
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AA has a slight advantage, as they can elect 2/3 of the CDS RA seats, and make sure that their option (either pro or against the merger) is enforced
[11:12] Jamie Palisades: genuiely intriguing, pat – like what? convert to franchulate?
[11:12] Patroklus Murakami: this is the ‘unequal treaty’ part
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, alas, I personally don’t see a problem.
[11:13] Solomon Mosely: well, cant the dual cds/aa citizens do the same thing in aa discussions, arria?
[11:13] Ranma Tardis: I have issues with the CDS but perhaps I am just too “American”, something I heard enough to get sick
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: It is a contrct that should not be broken easily.
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: no jamie. just live next to each other and be friendly
[11:13] Jamie Palisades: i have some RL travel issues that will pull me away – but i’d love to see more expansion of Pat’s idea that there are some other options
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t see the 2/3rds rule as unreasonable
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: but run our affairs separately
[11:13] Ranma Tardis: yes Pat that is agreable
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: maybe help each other out with evetns and even funding
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: This is what we always did before
[11:13] Solomon Mosely: is this because the new pat, does breaking the merger go with your RA size ammendment?
[11:13] Arria Perreault: the RA is an Assembly of all
[11:13] Keila Forager: or since individuals are running for office, they might not get any representatives
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Pat, I think that is my fallback position
[11:14] Arria Perreault: it doesnt represent the CDS original sims community
[11:14] Patroklus Murakami: a ‘confederation’ of equals rather than a loveless marriage
[11:14] Solomon Mosely: pat, does breaking the merger go with your RA size ammendment?
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like to see the meger tried.
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: lol pat
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Tor, I think that the whole merger agreement was based on the goodwill assumption that it WOULD go through, and that’s why it is, in essence, biased towards making it more easy to go ahead than to break it. As said, I have no personal problems with that.
[11:14] Solomon Mosely: the ra gets too big for a small group to influence?
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: tor, I think we have been trying it
[11:14] Arria Perreault: Tor, we tried for almost one year
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, there’s one realproblem with that – the agreement doesn’t hold CDS to respect any of its terms *after* the merger
[11:14] Ranma Tardis: actually, if the cds takes full control of AA a lot of us would simply leave
[11:14] Solomon Mosely: i dont think so mike
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, the trial period is “now” After July, there is no possibility to “go back”
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn’s right
[11:15] Solomon Mosely: sure, its a democracy, anything can get voted on in the future, if pepoel want
[11:15] Arria Perreault: since last summer, Tor
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good point, Kas.
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: after July, thhhhhCDS can do anything
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Understood.
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: Arria, did we try? Did we fail? Did Stui and all those people on RA fail to make it a joint government this last year? WHY are you calling it a fail?
[11:15] Ranma Tardis: not true agrements are not gospil
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: (sorry, keyboard driver problems)
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: After July, there is no more separation of CDS or AA… except for ownership of the AA sims
[11:15] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve supported teh merger throughout, even argued for it at the last town hall. but it’s become clear to me it isn’t working
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I feel tho we much of this is an effort toward giving up on the merger.
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: not true,
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: they can de merge
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: it’s not just merger or bust. we can have a different relationship
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: as a democracy, which wont be destroyed by aa people
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: we can vote to make any changes
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: why can’t we explore the options?
[11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ranma’s point is a valid one, though: the “common government” will have access to all sims, all themes, and can change all clauses of the current agreement except one. Is that something that bothers AA citizens?
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: Kas, I see mo problem there — it IS in fact time for AA t risk being utterly controlled by CDS or not — depending I guess on how fair & receptive they think CDS is, smile
[11:16] Arria Perreault: We got blocking for the project Sacromonte, which was not normal, because the idea was to act as one community
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: why does it ahve to be black and white?
[11:16] Ranma Tardis: I have no desire to destroy the CDS “democracy”
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: *no problem
[11:17] Arria Perreault: then we got so many critics, while we have made many efforts
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I think when the merger is finally dead we can look at optons.
[11:17] Arria Perreault: look all what was done in communication
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: but we should work to make the agreement work.
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: Sorry? More criqtiuse than is usual in CDS government?
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Won’t that be too late, Tor? “If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.”
[11:17] Arria Perreault: take the example of communication
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: we have some time
[11:17] Keila Forager: You got blocked because Rose was already in negotiations to rent it out, I remember reading that
[11:18] Solomon Mosely: but aa will be continue being a part of cds and the government, nothing has to happen to them without their support
[11:18] Ranma Tardis: try looking at ways to change their minds, I am only speaking out for the others that will not
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami wonders if ‘dunabar’s number’ is 80 in virtual worlds and not 150….
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: it seems this boils down to trust
[11:18] Arria Perreault: I think we have more progresses than in several past terms
[11:18] Ranma Tardis: yes Tor you are so correct
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS does not trust AA to change the dem. system and AA worries that CDS will destroy its mission
[11:18] Arria Perreault: now we have improved the portal, open a Twitter, a Facce
[11:18] Pip Torok makes a mental note to research Dunbar’s number
[11:18] Arria Perreault: a Facebook page
[11:18] Ranma Tardis: yes
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s quite interesting, Pip )
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: Arria, before AA, “the good old Alpine” CDS tried to oust about 1 elected official per year. How is this more contentious?
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we need to see that niether side has to feer the other.
[11:19] Arria Perreault: and we got critics for a silly notice that was not sent on time …
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do more AA residents share Ranma’s opinion?
[11:19] Solomon Mosely: who is on the commission to create cash flow solutions for cds and aa?
[11:19] Solomon Mosely: who is on the pio team to coordinate events?
[11:19] Keila Forager: and the portal is still as difficult to navigate as before
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: Solomon = starts with chancellor – HAS TO!
[11:19] Ranma Tardis: Neaultenberg was about a syatem of checks and balances, the RA destroyed them
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: if the merger is made permanent, we should all try to make it work
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: let’s ask Sonja
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we did this only with good will and volunteering
[11:20] Patroklus Murakami: but i don’t think it will be pretty, or much fun
[11:20] Sonja Strom: Solomon, are you volunteering to help with them?
[11:20] Sonja Strom: Jamie, are you?
[11:20] Jamie Palisades sort of makes a ocnfused look
[11:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Generally wwhere there is criticism there is room to improve and such institutions will improve to avoid repetition – is it different here ?
[11:20] Jamie Palisades: SO\onja I put in dozens of hours a week for 18 months
[11:20] Sonja Strom: If anybody here will help, please IM me and we can work on it.
[11:20] Pip Torok: Ranma, if the checks and balances allowed one-sided trashing, then I truly wonder about that
[11:20] Jamie Palisades: what do you wish, at the moment?
[11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Stui!
[11:20] Arria Perreault: Jamie, I know that every CDS goverment got critics, but poeple are considering people like me as rascal, do you think it’s still rationnal?
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: and what if we disagree stui, on what improvement means?
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha Pat
[11:21] Arria Perreault: when*
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where there is cause for criticism by the people
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that is where we must act
[11:21] Jamie Palisades: :/ i don;t think you are a rascal, i thikn you are an artist who has kindly agreed to preside over this squabbling bunch
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to avoid this state of play
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: i prefer ‘patsy’ if we’re using drag names
[11:21] Jamie Palisades: and you have my strong sympathy
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or compassion
[11:22] Arria Perreault: do you think I chair the RA as an artist?
[11:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where AP and others can get upset over consistent reminders of the short comings of the system
[11:22] Jamie Palisades: Ha ha not a bad idea – i tried doing it as a mediator and liontamer
[11:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok Patty
[11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, guys, guys… sorry but we should continue to focus on the issue… we have more Town hall meetings to discuss other issues
[11:22] Jamie Palisades: maybe artist will work better
[11:22] Mikelo Serevi: I’m grateful for Arria’s efforts myself
[11:22] Jamie Palisades: Hear, hear Mikelo
[11:22] Pip Torok: me too Mikelo
[11:23] Arria Perreault: I have trie to find bridges to the AA community
[11:23] Arria Perreault: realy
[11:23] Patroklus Murakami: sorry, didn’t notice we has strayed!
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Good AP. I think we all need to do that for each of us.
[11:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the truth is that there is an element of conservatism in the system just for the sake of it
[11:23] Jamie Palisades: :/ but you have RA members from there … that’s like saying “I tried to find bridges to All\pine Meadows people”
[11:23] Patroklus Murakami: if we are thinking about s.8, this is teh one which is now under discussion
[11:23] Keila Forager: and the unwillingness for change
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we did, Pat We’re shifting the focus about the merger agreement to validating what people have been doing (or not)
[11:23] Mikelo Serevi: chaos is not good for stability, stui
[11:24] Arria Perreault: I wished AA poeple had considered my real efforts instead to stay their ideological view of CDS
[11:24] Patroklus Murakami: and will be determined partly by the outcome of the next elections
[11:24] Jamie Palisades: Not sure we need bridges — prettt such the govt and EOs need to talk more, and that the RA needs to act on form of government
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then there is a debate about the improvement of the system Mikelo
[11:24] Arria Perreault: as LRA, I have open the RA agenda to any citizen
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well improvements are qualified by the citizens
[11:24] Pip Torok: well THIS AA person does, Arria
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where criticism is voiced
[11:25] Solomon Mosely: the relevance of this shift in focus gwen,
[11:25] Jamie Palisades: i case there is a doubt, let me say again, like i did on the forums last wek — i think Arria has acted fairly, carefully and (amazingly) politely, from what I know of the last 4 months
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the government must work to iron the crease
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Stui. Then the question is: in what way is the “improvement of the system” a condition for the merger to go ahead successfully?
[11:25] Solomon Mosely: is to show the efforts to make this owrk have been minimal
[11:25] Patroklus Murakami: i think there has been an aggressive attempt to attack the CDS institutions and use AA as a battering ram for change
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, of course, what is to be done in terms of mmmh “improvements”?
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean concrete examples.
[11:25] Jamie Palisades: it;s not the RA’s job to start work on getting the nonprofit corp thing solved — or the rent boxex
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty then if that is your view
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think so Pat.
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a few, ironically from Michel Manen: direct Chancellor election
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you are as much part of the problem as the solution
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, that may be pat
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami: darling, so are you
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as you percieve the battering ram
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Seems CDS is overly worried about an Ulrika.
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, you’re actually quite right
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so it is there
[11:26] Jamie Palisades: given me much to think on – we started a good experiment – i wonder if we can keep it? travel pulls me away, regards to all
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: bye jamie
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami: bye jamie
[11:26] Ranma Tardis: Tor stop slandering my friend Ulrika!
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Jamie, thanks for coming!
[11:26] Sonja Strom: bye Jamie
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: so it is too sensitive about loosing democracy to a tyrant.
[11:26] Arria Perreault: bye Jamie
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:27] Patroklus Murakami: i think it would be nice sometimes if ppl who want to change the CDS would recognise that, in so many ways, it actually works?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I agree, Tor, and I personally admit that I worry about that, but can understand that others don’t.
[11:27] Mikelo Serevi: Well, tor, perhaps it’s more vigilance than fear
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Pat
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, let’s pick up Stui’s thread…
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What “improvements” have to be made?
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I think CDS is amazing.
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean on the “system”.
[11:27] Arria Perreault: the best we can do now would be a summary of all answers we got on the agreement
[11:28] Patroklus Murakami: rather than aggressively tearing down everything that ppl spent years working to build up

RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 4
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:33 pm
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What has to be concretely and pragmatically done? Not just “vague” things please.
[11:28] Pip Torok: pat, some ppl are never going to get “if it ain’t broke ….”
[11:28] Arria Perreault: so people don’t have to read all the meeting’s transcript
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: And I undersand the need for vigilance.
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well AP mentioned criticism and Patty said about battering rams
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui, let’s turn the criticism into concrete actions! WHat needs to be done?
[11:28] Patroklus Murakami: good idea arria. i will review the answers we got and try to post tomething
[11:28] Solomon Mosely: pat!
[11:28] Solomon Mosely: good point
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but I don’t think the institutions are in danger.
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: why cant you see that the eveolution of the cds, which you hold so dear, has been done by people who were trying to improve it
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: not tear it down
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: why is this different
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn hates to insist in the same point…
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that perhaps there is a culture in the sims to see criticism as a purely negative thing
[11:29] Ranma Tardis: before I go, the coup destroyed the Neualtenberg Projekt and before my friend Kendra passed away she was blamed as well. Insulting them is an insult to me
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but there can be constructive criticism
[11:29] Patroklus Murakami: of course sol. i’ve helped to make those reforms
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which is rather more an observation
[11:29] Kaseido Quandry: outstanding, Solomon!
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: /why?
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: did you hate the cds?
[11:29] Mikelo Serevi: I hadn’t realized anyone would be forced to change, sol
[11:30] Solomon Mosely: did you hate the democracy as it was?
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: but i don’t see ppl putting forward postive proposals
[11:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and a rallying point for making bad good, good better and better best
[11:30] Ranma Tardis: I am all that is left of Port Neualtenberg
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But what changes?
[11:30] Kaseido Quandry raises her hand for Pat there
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are “good” changes? Let’s hear examples!
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: all i see is incoherent criticism
[11:30] Solomon Mosely: i see, its their fault for not putting ideas that suited you
[11:30] Pip Torok: sol , we conclude that when we see that those ppl are tearing-down PEOPLE ….
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: where si teh legislation? where are the ideas?
[11:30] Kaseido Quandry: Constructive reform of campaign law, tyvm
[11:30] Mikelo Serevi: let’s not get talking about ‘progress’
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s a good point, Kas!
[11:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well there was a lot of criticism about the agenda of the RA meetings
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree gwyn, I don’t see where AA is going to ruin CDS institutions.
[11:30] Ranma Tardis: I see no reason to remain here and be insulted. I am against the merger
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: about the location of the citizens in process
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Was that addressed successfully, Kas? What can be improved?
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact AA came to CDS FOR its institutions.
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear Tor
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we addressed that
[11:31] Solomon Mosely: how about commssions to work on the issues that people find the biggest barriers to a merger?
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: yes kas, ty you had a point and backed it up with a proposal. that i can work with
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: I’m against it too, ranma
[11:31] Ranma Tardis: I tried to see eye to eye
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Solomon!
[11:31] Solomon Mosely: like finance, and the rumor of the AA drain on cds?
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another good idea!
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but without the original complaint
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, Pat and I met and made excellent progress toward a solid proposal
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there’d be no progress on that
[11:31] Arria Perreault: if it right, Tor, AA people should trust them
[11:31] Ranma Tardis: certain people are offensive and insulting
[11:31] Solomon Mosely: how about a commission to explore other ways of producing income there that do meet with ss apporval
[11:31] Arria Perreault: these institutions works for many years and each term improve them
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: which I think shows the real strengh of CDS at its best
[11:32] Solomon Mosely: instead of suggesting things that will of course be offensive to its residents?
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So now we have two concrete actions. 1. Work on the campaigning issues. 2. Get the Finance Commission to report on AA finances 3. Get the Trader’s commission operational
[11:32] Pip Torok: Ranma …. if Ulrika didnt do those things, then why not say so and let the past remain in the past?
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, three
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: And complaints about RA….. Where do any of us live where we don’t complain aboug Congrss, parilament or town hall?
[11:32] Solomon Mosely: as if by offering them rotten fruit, you have tried your best
[11:32] Ranma Tardis: like Kendra I think that money is the goal of certain people here not the process
[11:32] Arria Perreault: Tor, wait to sit in the RA
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have three concrete actions!
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we list more?
[11:33] Pip Torok: the evidence, Ranma … let’s have the evidence
[11:33] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah Ranma, rightly or wrongly she part of CDS lore and a symbol of tyrrany.
[11:33] Arria Perreault: you work hard and kindly and you got not even critics, but insults
[11:33] Ranma Tardis: you keep insulting my friend
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: we should summarise the discussion of the merger agreement
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: where are we on the nonprofit? I didn’t hear anything clear there –
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll try to identify main themes
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: and feel free to add
[11:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I believe that perhaps for a while people have used the partner sim group as a convenient scapegoat for the source of what we perhaps didn’t want to hear
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: non-profit was the big question
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Kas question too
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: lots of questions we ahve not yet resolved
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye …
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: about who can be on it, which jurisdiciton to use
[11:34] Arria Perreault: I will read again what was said about non-profit org. I think it’s one of the main issue
[11:34] Ranma Tardis: agree with you friend Pat
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: safeguards agains abuse/ selling off sims
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can use “any” nonprofit, or if you need a new one
[11:34] Arria Perreault: especially because the consequences on our rl lifes
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: interaction with CDS govnt
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: agreement (generally) that we don’t have to resolve all of this now
[11:34] Pip Torok: Ranma … you have not denied what jonty Peel told me, how can I be insulting Ulrika?
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: interaction with the citizens (in the sense of publishing internal NP decisions for all citizens to read)
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: but we do need to resolve it
[11:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we can use the existing NP just put CDS people on it
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: ppl pls. let’s try to stay on topic for the sake of ppl reading this
[11:35] Solomon Mosely: we just have the chancellor sign on as np exec
[11:35] Ranma Tardis: you blame her for all of the problems that lead to the breakup of the Neualtenberg Projekt
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: another big issue is communications
[11:35] Solomon Mosely: and form the four memeber body for the board
[11:35] Solomon Mosely: its done
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, that is a very good question, and one asked before — but that is a question that we have to ask if it’s acceptable and within the spirit of the agreement, so that nobody gets accused of distorting its meaning
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would say “yes”
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: the merger agreement said what had to be ‘transferred’ but was not so clear on how ppl should work with each other and talk to each other
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok G. I think that woudl be acceptable to AA.
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: it’s clear that some key ppl need to talk to each other more
[11:36] Solomon Mosely: if you need a summary now, its that we keep the merger and make more concrete steps to engage in activities to find solutions and exagerate the problems
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Pat But apparently today we established that it would take more than just a phone call Which is progress…
[11:36] Imotali Antiesse: sorry whats np?
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS jsut has to name the board members.
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: or RA does
[11:36] Mikelo Serevi: non profit
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, could that be officially published?
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: most other aspects of the merger agreement were fine and have been implemented
[11:37] Imotali Antiesse: k
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, we’d have at least ONE thing settled.
[11:37] Solomon Mosely: non profit
[11:37] Patroklus Murakami: is that a fair summary of our discussion?
[11:37] Ranma Tardis: yes that is part of the problem, the cds ditating who owns AA
[11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure it could. I understood that was Jaime’s first idea.
[11:37] Pip Torok: I think yes
[11:37] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Pat’s summary
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn also agrees with Pat’s summary
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Tor)
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (but the citiznes need to know if Jamie’s idea represents what EVERYBODY — including current VDI members! — is thinking=
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: no ranma
[11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I understant Gwyn.
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: the people all elect the ra which can have all the aa members it wants
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: and then they decide on the chancellor, who leads the np
[11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I will work on getting that out.
[11:38] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, a clarification from the VDI board and both parties to the merger agreement – the then-Chancellor and AAEO – would be a very good thing
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Tor!
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: sry pat, could you restate yor summary?
[11:38] Ranma Tardis: I support Rose
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d personally be more than happy with that, Kas
[11:39] Arria Perreault: did we get an answer about non UScitizen as member/board of VDI?
[11:39] Pip Torok: Ranma, broken records bore and exasperate after multiple repetitions ….
[11:39] Delia Lake is trying to keep up with the conversation but is on a rl 5 hr! business conference call at the same time
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a legal answer, Arria
[11:39] Sonja Strom: lol Delia
[11:39] Ranma Tardis: you are insulting Tor
[11:39] Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid not sol. i’ll try to take them out to make a summary when this goes on the forums
[11:39] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, I can do some research, and post on the forums, or you could just ask Rose, who’s current with that law and set of regs
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: darn RL
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Delia
[11:39] Arria Perreault: so it’s an issue
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it is.
[11:39] Kaseido Quandry: no, it’s a question.
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I need to get some things done today too
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hehe
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it’s a question
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: delia, you have my sympathies
[11:40] Arria Perreault: who can give the answer, then?
[11:40] Arria Perreault: yes, Delia
[11:40] Delia Lake: i can say though that we have on a number of occasions, as VDI talked about adding CDS officials to the nonprofit
[11:40] Kaseido Quandry: ffs, Arria, I’ve answered that 3 times
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The answer can be “no way”, “yes, under special circunstances” (and we’d need to know which ones) and “yes without a problem”
[11:40] Kaseido Quandry: I can do some research or you can ask Rose, who would readily know
[11:40] Arria Perreault: before you leave, can you send me the list odf approved citizen?
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: does this feel like a suitable point to end? or start drawing to a close?
[11:40] Arria Perreault: I will publish it on the portal
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: ty arria. that would be very helpful
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: i assume the SC now has an approved list?
[11:41] Solomon Mosely: so was the summary that no ne is going to call for a vote to demerge?
[11:41] Arria Perreault: tx, Kas
[11:41] Ranma Tardis: did not want to be the angry chick but Tor you have crossed the line
[11:41] Delia Lake: i don’t know about US citizenship or anonymity though
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: sol, the CSDF candidates are standing in favour of demerging
[11:41] Delia Lake: yes. the SC has the citizens list.
[11:41] Solomon Mosely: still?
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: others may do so too
[11:42] Arria Perreault: I am ready to publish on the portal
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh apparently in Nevada there is no problem: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Nonprofit-La … profit.htm (don’t you love Google?)
[11:42] Arria Perreault: it’s usefull for the canditates
[11:42] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, under most state law it’s fine -the question is more about the IRS regs
[11:42] Arria Perreault: VDI is in Texas
[11:42] Solomon Mosely: could you stand for making progress towards making the merger successful, instead?
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same in Kansas: http://www.mainstreaminc.net/knpa/questions.html#FC
[11:43] Kaseido Quandry: “nonprofit corporation” and “IRS nonprofit status” are two different beasts
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, true, Kas
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: well, that *is* what i’m standing for sol
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good point!
[11:43] Ranma Tardis: I appoligise to all but one and did not intend to get angry but this is a meeting of CDS people minus one.
[11:43] Solomon Mosely: yes, and no new non profit has to be formed
[11:43] Solomon Mosely: no, thats not the same thing at all
[11:43] Kaseido Quandry: afaik, there’s no citizenship problem per state corporate law
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: abandon our marriage but live next door and have fun together
[11:43] Ranma Tardis: You have to convience the AA people, not just yourselves
[11:43] Arria Perreault: Sol, where do you intend to build your rl non-profit?
[11:44] Kaseido Quandry: and I doubt there is in the regs, but I’m not going to give an uniformed opinion
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: if you get your way about the merger, will you still push for the RA size change pat?
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: i dont arria
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: after talking with rose more,
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think the merger works as currently drafted and i haven’t seen a reason to change my opinion
[11:44] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: i have learned that a new NP isnt needed
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: sol, the RA size thing is a separate question
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: then pat
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: as a democracy, we can change things
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: i dont think so
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: up to the RA to pass it or not (it needs 2/3)
[11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the letter of the agreement says otherwise, but if everybody is happy with the interpretation that drops the REQUIREMENT of having a new NP, that’s ok
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: precisely, Gwyn
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: not sure it’s something i would push to the top of the RA agenda right now though!
[11:45] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think that is a problem
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: we have other things to discuss!
[11:45] Solomon Mosely: yes, like how to make more money for all the reserves and events without raising rents
[11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: )
[11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Sol for president
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry makes some rockin’ digital muffins….
[11:46] Ranma Tardis: but this was a meeting for AA citizens to discuss merger, not strictly CDS things
[11:46] Arria Perreault: I don’t think I will ever feel confortable with this rl org, wherever it is
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good idea, Sol, you could run for Chancellor
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: sol, if you want to sort that out i suggest you don’t try the RA
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: indeed, run for chancellor instead!
[11:46] Sonja Strom: Yes, Solomon
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither will I, Arria, but, alas… I see a slight difference today
[11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: A chicken in every pot!
[11:46] Sonja Strom: I will help you…
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: the RA is for laws and planning
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: awww, thanks guys
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: so sweet of you to say
[11:47] Arria Perreault: I see also the potential issue we could have with LL
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: but no, i think rose would be a much better qualified person than i
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sol — depends on what you wish to do, discuss legislations or plan events, raise funds, administer things…
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: well, shes done all of that
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: perfect
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria: yes On the other hand, if VDI keeps the AA sims, they will keep the discount… while transferring to a different NP is really a question of “luck” these days.
[11:48] Sonja Strom: anybody who becomes Chancellor, I will help them.
[11:48] Solomon Mosely: so sonja, ra, who will move for a land managemnt committee to coordinate the rental and land marketing issues?
[11:48] Arria Perreault: we have several sims owned by a non-profit to be rented cheaper and these sims send their money to CDS which is not non-profit. It’s a bit like CDS is abusing LL terms of services to make some profits. CDS could have an issue with LL.
[11:49] Solomon Mosely: to keep “the tub” more full, more often?
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria: not if there are different EOs!
[11:49] Kaseido Quandry: yes, there’s no issue there
[11:49] Arria Perreault: we have a transfer of money
[11:49] Kaseido Quandry: “CDS” doesn’t have any meaningful existence for LL’s purposes
[11:49] Arria Perreault: the money from AA is transferred to CDS
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was going to type what Kas just said
[11:50] Arria Perreault: maybe not CDS, but the owner of CDS has
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re right as well, Arria
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a time-bomb really.
[11:50] Arria Perreault: I think so
[11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: That we need to talk about.
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One day we have to seriously consider the issue. LL has been way less tolerant
[11:50] Solomon Mosely: no one, ok
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… I’ve requested repeatedly for them to *publish* their documentation
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they didn’t.
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which in LL parlance means: “we really don’t want to be forced to enforce that, except on some cases”
[11:51] Tor Karlsvalt: wouldn’t LL have to accept a NP if the IRS does?
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know all how LL likes to make, mmmh, “special allowances”
[11:51] Kaseido Quandry: yes, LL’s capriciousness is clear- and a good argument against keeping reserves in an avatar account
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Tor
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “discount” is not something that is a legal requirement in the US
[11:51] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, nope, LL can and has made random deicsions
[11:51] Delia Lake: i’m coming away from this meeting a bit concerned about the CDS state re LL. i hadn’t thought so much about that before
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: But how can LL make a determination about NP when the IRS determines one exists.
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait Tor… there are 2 things here.
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is recognising the nonprofit status
[11:52] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, LL, like any business, can give a discount on whatever terms it wants
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL cannot avoid doing that.
[11:52] Patroklus Murakami: tor, they can decide we’re not the ‘right’ sort of non-profit
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is what Kas is saying.
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: ah
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: i see
[11:52] Patroklus Murakami: i.e. a rental outfit rather than an educational project
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because you have a nonprofit, LL is not “required” to give it a discount.
[11:52] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: ok thanks
[11:53] Ranma Tardis: I have to go, just crashed
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Ranma
[11:53] Patroklus Murakami: bye ranma take care
[11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, planning ahead for a time where the discount is gone, is a serious and sound policy, and I totally agree with the notion of having reserves for that event.
[11:53] Mikelo Serevi: ok, bye ranma
[11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Ranma!
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: tc
[11:53] Delia Lake: bye Ranma
[11:53] Ranma Tardis: there is a bike and lots of sunshine
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for coming
[11:53] Imotali Antiesse: bye Ranma
[11:54] Arria Perreault: bye Ramna
[11:54] Lilith Ivory: bye Ranma
[11:54] Ranma Tardis: oh remember taxes, does the CDS pay its taxes? It is located within he USA
[11:54] Ranma Tardis: bye bye
[11:54] Patroklus Murakami: btw, before we go, could anyone who is one of Michel Manen’s alts pls let themselves be known?
[11:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:54] Kaseido Quandry: lol
[11:55] Patroklus Murakami: there has to be at least one!
[11:55] Solomon Mosely: yes, i’d like to vote for him
[11:55] Delia Lake: lol Pat, that’s not you?
[11:55] Pip Torok: lol …
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sol
[11:55] Solomon Mosely:
[11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: seems I met all the people here in CDS.
[11:55] Patroklus Murakami: you may get the chance sol, but without knowing it! LOL
[11:55] Solomon Mosely: its rose
[11:55] Pip Torok: like me, sol!
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, you should run for Chancellor too
[11:55] Patroklus Murakami: sorry folks, naughty i iknow but i couldn’t resist
[11:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m MM
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn is quite sure that Rose is not Michel
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah Stui, you have a far better fashion style
[11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Gwyn, I am really new compared to all of you.
[11:56] Delia Lake: oh wait, maybe i’m michel’s alt, or maybe it’s you Gwyn
[11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: still learnign about sim management and such.
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could be, Delia!
[11:56] Arria Perreault: well, Gwyn, look at his crown
[11:56] Pip Torok: (were sounding lik that scene from Spartacus!….
[11:56] Solomon Mosely: i know, you guys met last year, didnt you?
[11:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s definitely Tor
[11:56] Imotali Antiesse: mm a girl now
[11:57] Patroklus Murakami: stui, you have much better taste in clothes
[11:57] Patroklus Murakami: then again…
[11:57] Solomon Mosely: lol
[11:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am teaching Tor how to dress
[11:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this week topless in jeans
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, now seriously… don’t let “newness” be a factor in NOT running for Chancellor!!
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui shoudl be careful. Crowned heads sometimes get lost.
[11:57] Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid i must get going. are we at an end now in any case?
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui
[11:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: next week sparkly hotpants
[11:57] Solomon Mosely: there’s a revenue stream,
[11:57] Solomon Mosely: tickets to a topless ra
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[11:57] Mikelo Serevi: I think we’ve finished
[11:58] Arria Perreault: yes, but the entrance will not be free
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *did* have a Cabaret once… we could revive that again!
[11:58] Patroklus Murakami: ‘topless ra’, okay, i’m game
[11:58] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Solomon!
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: I did get a new skin
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or turn the RA into a Cabaret…
[11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, that will spike intereset in RA.
[11:58] Delia Lake: wait a minute, don’t all run for chancellor. we have to elect the RA first and need enough candidates to hold the election
[11:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Topless Tor the Titty Terror
[11:58] Kaseido Quandry: vote for me! I’ve got a *great* rack! :p
[11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops yes, good point Delia — did we get the 13 candidates at least??
[11:58] Patroklus Murakami: 15
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh that’s excellent!!!!
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: great news
[11:59] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:59] Patroklus Murakami: it is, shame there weren’t more though
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well yes
[11:59] Sonja Strom: Now I am trying to organise Candidate Debates.
[11:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor may share a bench with me
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we say that every term, Pat
[11:59] Arria Perreault: 15 on 131, not bad
[11:59] Delia Lake: we have 15 candidates, posted on the forum
[11:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you just make sure he keeps his hands to himself
[11:59] Solomon Mosely: still, its better than having to force people to run, against their will
[11:59] Patroklus Murakami: better than just one !
[11:59] Arria Perreault: more than 10%
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok I haven’t read that yet, Delia — thanks
[11:59] Patroklus Murakami: like last time!
[12:00] Arria Perreault: Delia, I ask again for the list of citizen ….
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami is turning off the recorder soon
[12:00] Sonja Strom: Please look at this post about having a debate: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2833
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in officially closing the Town Hall meeting
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami: pls click it to indicate consent to being recorded
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with being recorded
[12:00] Arria Perreault: we really don’t know now who is and who is not citizen
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami: the transcript will be posted on teh forums
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: this has been a good meeting.
[12:00] Solomon Mosely: and i think as aa gets more comfortable with the process, they will come out in greater numbers to run
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 9 May 2010

Agenda

I. Concerns of Citizens
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. floor to the citizen

II. ADMIN

a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA MEETING

a. Citizen definition
b. Proposed Constitutional Amendment – Campaigning
c. Finance Bill
d. Government Communications Bill

IV. NEW ITEMS

a. Referendum about the Merger
b. STV Quota Bill
c. Setting a Size for the RA
d. RA Rules of procedure: summary of the meeting, payment from CDS to RA members
e. Land management on AA: homestead Almunecar

V. Concerns of RA Members
Transcript

[9:07] Arria Perreault: Can we start?
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: pls do 🙂
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with starting
[9:07] Pip Torok: me too
[9:08] Arria Perreault: I open the meeting
[9:08] Lilith Ivory: Stui is about to come
[9:08] Arria Perreault: Please click on the recorder
[9:08] Pip Torok: are we quorate?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: yes, I saw Lilith
[9:08] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[9:08] Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
[9:08] Pip Torok: hi Stui !! :-))
[9:08] Arria Perreault: we have, Pip
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there, Stui 🙂
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: EVENING ! I’m here and like Miley Cyrus – I CAN’T BE TAMED ! 🙂
[9:08] Arria Perreault: 2 members are missing
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you are lucky tho
[9:08] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ***RAH RAH AH AH AH – ROMA ROMA MA GAGA OOH LA LA***
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: yesterday I was lady
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[9:09] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the amphora
[9:09] Pip Torok: ooo !
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with sparkly bra
[9:09] Imotali Antiesse: kwang kwang kwang
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish I had seen that, Stui 🙂 Have yu pictures??
[9:09] Arria Perreault: first point: citizen concerns
[9:09] Arria Perreault: 15 minutes
[9:09] Arias Ahren: Yes
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Stui
[9:09] Arria Perreault: who wants the floor?
[9:09] CDS Official Amphora owned by Arria Perreault gave you ‘RA 9 May – Agenda’ ( slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/15/165/42 ).
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hi Tor Tor !
[9:10] Arias Ahren: I have a question.
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go, citizens, go! 🙂
[9:10] Arria Perreault: questions, remarks, proposals?
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: arias has a question i believe
[9:11] Arias Ahren: Could someone explain the procedures and protocols for voting? Or reference where these are drafted.
[9:11] Pip Torok: (probably quite a long one)
[9:11] Solomon Mosely: i have a couple things arria
[9:11] Arria Perreault: solomon, you have the floor
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: oh, i can wait till arias is answered
[9:12] Arria Perreault: Arias, I think it’s a good question
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: it should be pretty easy arias.
[9:12] Arria Perreault: we had a guide for voting
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: there will be voting booths in the CDS and AA sims in central places
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: you click on the booth
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: it gives you a website and password
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: you enter your SL username and the election password
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: then you choose your candidates
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: you just put them in order of preference
[9:13] Arias Ahren: How many are we allowed to vote for?
[9:13] Lilith Ivory smiles at Stui
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: if there is a referendum qn, you answer that too
[9:13] Arias Ahren: I see
[9:13] Arias Ahren: thanks Pat
[9:13] Arria Perreault: we should update the guide in the portal
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: you can list all the candidates or just some if you prefer(at least i think so! will have to chekc when jon trials it today)
[9:13] Arias Ahren: Yes
[9:13] Arria Perreault: I don’t know whose task it is. maybe the SC
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Because many don’t know the procedures.
[9:14] Pip Torok: May I give a tip: that you draw up a list on paper so that you do not miss out any name?
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Yes
[9:14] Pip Torok: hi Delia
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: hi Delia
[9:15] Arria Perreault: Delia, could the SC update the guide for voting?
[9:15] Delia Lake: /hello everyone
[9:15] Lilith Ivory: we were just talking about the voting procedure
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia!
[9:15] Timo Gufler: hi Delia
[9:16] Arria Perreault: we have many new citizen. It would be good to have a document where the process is explaned
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt: hi soro
[9:16] Delia Lake: Arria, we have been looking at the guide for voting, have circulated the current one among SC. in order to update it, and tha must be done asap, we need 2 critical bits of information.
[9:16] Delia Lake: we need to have whatever resolution the RA passes or know that they have not passed anything today
[9:17] Delia Lake: plus we need to go through the software testing with Jon this evening
[9:17] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:17] Arria Perreault: the RA will provide you the information
[9:17] Pip Torok: motion to ove IVa infron of IIIa
[9:17] Pip Torok: *move
[9:17] Delia Lake: we have a SC meeting tomorrow at noon
[9:17] Patroklus Murakami: haha, you beat me to it pip!
[9:17] Arria Perreault: as soon as we have the guide, I will make sure it is in the portal
[9:17] Pip Torok: *in front of
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: i would like to move IV a, b and c in front of IIIa
[9:18] Arria Perreault: Thank you Delia
[9:18] Arria Perreault: now we can listen to SOlomon
[9:18] Lilith Ivory: what about Sols questions?
[9:18] Lilith Ivory: ok
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: as they all potentially affect teh upcoming election
[9:18] Solomon Mosely: thanks arria
[9:18] Pip Torok: I cede my motuioin to Pat
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami listens to solomon
[9:18] Solomon Mosely: well i wanted to to see if we could button up whatever the election debate process will be. i don’t know if that’s an RA job or not.
[9:19] Arria Perreault: (we’re still in citizen concerns )
[9:19] Pip Torok: (sorry)
[9:19] Arria Perreault: no. it’s the job of the Chancellor
[9:20] Arria Perreault: Sonja is organizing this debate
[9:20] Solomon Mosely: ok, thanks, and last thing,
[9:20] Solomon Mosely: i wanted to propose an RA commission for fund finding for AA, given their new 501c3 status
[9:20] Delia Lake: since it is not on the agenda, might you please post in chat the current content and order fo the motion under discussion?
[9:21] Arria Perreault: we are in citizen concerns, Delia
[9:22] Arria Perreault: Solomon, we can add this point for the next meeting. you have to provide more informations about this proposal
[9:22] Arria Perreault: for example the use of the money that will be raised
[9:22] Solomon Mosely: of course 🙂 i just wanted to voice that a serious effort from the cds to make the most of their status
[9:23] Arria Perreault: can you post something, as Delia proposed it
[9:23] Pip Torok: hi Ranma
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sonja 🙂
[9:23] Pip Torok: and Sonja
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Hi SOnja
[9:23] Solomon Mosely: about which?
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Hi Ramna
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: Hi Ranma
[9:23] Timo Gufler: hi Sonja!
[9:24] Arria Perreault: about your proposal
[9:24] Arria Perreault: it would be good to describe it and give more informations
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: Good day Pip-san and Arria-san and Lilith-san 🙂
[9:25] Solomon Mosely: oh, i thought her request was in response to the debates
[9:25] Arria Perreault: possible. in this case, sorry
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if it’s a proposal for the RA to form a commission for AA funding *now*…. I guess this would be something that the RA could approve today… if we have a short description of what the commission is supposed to do. We did create comissions on the spur of the moment before 🙂
[9:26] Solomon Mosely: i know. but i can write something up now
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[9:27] Arria Perreault: a RA member can propose to add this point in the agenda of today
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[9:27] Mikelo Serevi: I’s a bit late in this RA to form a commission like that
[9:28] Arria Perreault: any other concern?
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: i think it would be best to see a worked up proposal for future consideration
[9:28] Pip Torok agrees with Mikelo
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: Also, anyone could fund raise if they wished
[9:28] Solomon Mosely: ohhh.. its never too late to find money for a major cds project
[9:29] Arria Perreault: if it not the case, we can move to the next point of the agenda
[9:29] Solomon Mosely: just a few minutes, its a simple idea. i’ll have a card for ya
[9:29] Solomon Mosely: no, i’m good arria
[9:29] Solomon Mosely: thank you
[9:29] Arria Perreault: a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we change the order of the agenda today
[9:29] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, if you’re talking about RL fundraising and providing tax deductions, there are pretty strict state laws on who and how charity fundraising can be done
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we move IV a, b and c in front of IIIa
[9:30] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:30] Solomon Mosely: new items first?
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: because they potentially affect the upcoming elections
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: so we should handle them now
[9:30] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:30] Delia Lake: and also, i believe, to Kas’s point, rules regarding the spending of that money raised
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: should we vote on my motion?
[9:32] Arria Perreault: yes, we can
[9:32] Arria Perreault: please vote
[9:32] Delia Lake: Pat, if you would, please restate your motion in chat
[9:32] Pip Torok: aye
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: yes, i will
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we move IV a, b and c in front of IIIa
[9:32] Solomon Mosely: i agree with kas and delia, i think the commission needs to identify those regulations
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[9:32] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:32] Pip Torok: aye
[9:32] Solomon Mosely: lol
[9:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[9:33] Solomon Mosely: why not finish old business first?
[9:33] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:33] Imotali Antiesse: aye
[9:33] Timo Gufler: aya
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:33] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:33] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:34] Arria Perreault: next point
[9:34] Arria Perreault: 7 day vote
[9:34] Arria Perreault: no 7 day vote requested for today
[9:35] Arria Perreault: there was a 7 day vote for all items voted in the last meeting
[9:35] Arria Perreault: I did not get any one
[9:35] Timo Gufler: really?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: did you, Timo?
[9:35] Timo Gufler: I posted my votes on the forums…
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: what timo said 🙂
[9:35] Arria Perreault: so I miss it
[9:35] Arria Perreault: soory
[9:36] Arria Perreault: can you give me the URL?
[9:36] Timo Gufler: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2820&p=14850#p14850
[9:36] Arria Perreault: anyone else did vote?
[9:36] Arria Perreault: I’ll count anfd publish the result after the meeting
[9:36] Arria Perreault: we can move to the next point
[9:37] Arria Perreault: a. Referendum about the Merger
[9:37] Arria Perreault: we had a long debate inthe forum
[9:37] Arria Perreault: Patroklus has made this proposal
[9:37] Solomon Mosely: oh, right, now you can talk about it before jamie or rose might get here
[9:38] Solomon Mosely: very smart
[9:38] Pip Torok raises hand
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I give him the floor to explane this point and remind us the question
[9:38] Solomon Mosely holds nose
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: i defer to pip
[9:38] Arria Perreault: Pip, you have the floor
[9:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: GO ON PATTY
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: solomon, rose is not coming today. she said so on the forums
[9:39] Solomon Mosely: right
[9:39] Delia Lake: and i believe Jamie is travelling for rl work and has no internet connection today
[9:39] Pip Torok: imo this referendum is essential … it makes CLEAR the opinion of the people … and together with Rose s decision affects our future radically … done
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: pip?
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: ok, thanks 🙂
[9:39] Arria Perreault: thak you, Pip
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we add a referendum question to teh ballot for the may elections
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: the question to be “Do you want the merger between the CDS and Al Andalus to become permanent?”
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds pat
[9:40] Arria Perreault: we have a motion that is seconded
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: since that it the question the next RA and the AA estate owner will have to decide in july
[9:40] Arria Perreault: we can move to the vote
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: um, hold on a sec arria
[9:40] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: ppl might want to speak on it first!
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Railroad job
[9:41] Kaseido Quandry: seriously, Soro
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: although, the point of this is to place it pefore the people
[9:41] Arias Ahren: You running the train sorro
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[9:41] Pip Torok respectfully disagrees with Soro
[9:42] Solomon Mosely: lol
[9:42] Arria Perreault: I will give the floor to RA menbers first
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: A railroad job would be to settle the question without asking anyone
[9:42] Arria Perreault: then to citizen. please ask to have the floor
[9:42] Solomon Mosely: can we discuss the language of the question on the ballot?
[9:42] Arria Perreault: I would like to remind you that we had a long debate in the forums
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: It is an effort to overturn a prior ruling by the RA.
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am just wondering what the overall point is here ?
[9:42] Solomon Mosely: not everyone reads the forums
[9:42] Arria Perreault: everyone had the opportunity to give his/her opinion
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: what prior ruling soro?
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or should I phrase that differently
[9:43] Kaseido Quandry: and the forums are *not* the legislature
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what is the benefit of the point ?
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: stui, the point is to find out what ppl actually want
[9:43] Pip Torok: Yes Soro … WHAT prior ruling?
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and when we know
[9:43] Solomon Mosely: wont we learn that after the elections pat?
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I trust we’ll actually listen ?
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: there is a lot of conjecture, a lot of claims, but no evidence
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: The AA agreement.
[9:43] Mikelo Serevi: I think soro means the merger itself
[9:43] Ranma Tardis: I would like to make a short statement on this
[9:43] Arria Perreault: the result wil be consultative
[9:44] Pip Torok: Do you in fact mean hat, Soro?
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: A violation of law.
[9:44] Arria Perreault: Ramna, you have the floor
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: Friends, I would like to point our passio is getting the best of us.
[9:44] Pip Torok: ??? please Soro, can you clarify please?
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ??
[9:45] Ranma Tardis: We have our fears of losing control to an unknown majority and remember the Confederation of Democratic Simulators is the entire group and not just the sims before the union.
[9:46] Ranma Tardis: What is needed is to provide a local amount of control to the sims that will give the residents a freedom of action under the umprella of the cds
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: I hope we cn resolve our differences and can move forward as a group.
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: Thank you
[9:47] Arria Perreault: (Regional committees is an answer to this concern. we can give them more power)
[9:47] Arria Perreault: thank you, Ramna
[9:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I just want to note, that CDS has a contract with AA. From what I read the public in both AA and CDS were consulted about this contract before it was extended to AA.
[9:47] Pip Torok: But the results of the Referendum will still go to Rose for consideration, Ranma, r will take AA views under speacial consideration
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: And approved it by the RA
[9:48] Arria Perreault: it’s only consultative, Tor
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and then approved by the RA
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: but both sides have the option to dissolve the merger
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: that’s in the agreement
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: You seek to overturn what the RA passed.
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: i’m suggesting one way to find out what ppl think in advance of that decision
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: no soro
[9:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well that’s not strictly true Patty
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Then that issue can be addressed by the next RA
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: not overturn. the referendum is consultative
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the RA can dissolve the merger from the CDS side
[9:49] Pip Torok respectfully disagrees with Soro
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the citizens themselves
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: well, the merger stands until its otherwise voted on
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: This is a a lame duck RA wanting to box in the next RA.
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: so we dnt need to do anything
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: true stui. so why not ask them what they want? i fail to see the problem with that
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why is asking things to citizens so bad?
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: because they might give the wrong answer?
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well there is one issue with it
[9:50] Solomon Mosely: unless there’s some massive uprising from the people
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: The next RA can do that’
[9:50] Arria Perreault: I would like to remind that we did this already
[9:50] Pip Torok: lame Duck, Tor???
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in that the next RA will not be made up of the same people as this one perhaps
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: We had several town halls. I saw now great opposition to the merger.
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: tor, we only hold referenda at election time
[9:50] Mikelo Serevi: The choice to overturn comes in june
[9:50] Mikelo Serevi: That’s the next RA
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, the idea is that referendums are held during elections (to facilitate the procedure) so the time to ask things in a referendum is now, noit in 6 months
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so the fact finding is rather redundant for this RA
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless we are to stay the same
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: it that a law or merely a preference
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in which case isn’t it a waste of time
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when there’s other matters at hand
[9:51] Pip Torok disagrres with Tor … there were SOME expressions of disaggreement … that dont speak for the whole of AA
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ?
[9:51] Patroklus Murakami: it is the law which was passed tor
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: It was part of the merger agreement, tor
[9:51] Arria Perreault: it’s consultative, Tor
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hey, Stui, it might be redundant, but at least we’ll finish our term knowingif we are doing something that actually most of the citizens want 🙂
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so it’s good for our conscience 🙂
[9:51] Arria Perreault: so both side have an important information to make their decision
[9:51] Solomon Mosely: well, since the position on the merger will no doubt be a part of the elections, wont we learn what the people want from who they elect to represent them?
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: GL shame it wasn’t the case earlier in the process
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree pip, but I did not see a move to end the merger at the twon halls or subsequent to them
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: good point sol
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they would have asked that I be lady G earlier
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: betterlater than never! we’re not perfect
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:52] Solomon Mosely: yes, did we already learn that the people wanted nothing to happen in this term?
[9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this term is going thru the wash up
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: brb
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: The town halls did not generate any support for a referedum
[9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in a desperate attempt to influence matters
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: nobody was asking for it
[9:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with a view to being seen to ask the citizens as it seems more acceptable to them
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: I asked Pat for his facts — he failed to respond
[9:53] Pip Torok: but noone was asking against it either
[9:54] Mikelo Serevi: we got some strong opinions, but it’s hard to tell what people really want from that
[9:54] Delia Lake: if the RA is seeking informed opinion from the citizenry about any complex issue, why would they choose a referrendum proposed less than a week before the election? Why would the RA not use a well thought out survey process where citizens could express relevant ideas and opinions that could actually help formulate thought and future actions?
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but it seems that the citizens aren’t quite so sure of the value of the RA’s input on this
[9:54] Kaseido Quandry cheers Delia
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I can only assume that since the agreement was in place people are ok with having it proceed
[9:54] Pip Torok: but isnt that the same thing Delia?
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: This is rather too little too late
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: it is not the same thing Pip
[9:54] Delia Lake: no Pip it is not the same thing at all
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it’s expedient
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: A yes or no question hardly does that, Pip
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: gosh, this neuralgia over a simple referendum is all a bit much, isn’t it?
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is beyond the scope of this RA
[9:55] Arria Perreault: In my opinion, it’s very important to ask people, when the question is very polarizing. I don’t think that the choice of representants is not the same thing than a question
[9:55] Delia Lake: there is even decent survey software already used in sl for educational distance learning courses
[9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I think a lameduck RA should at this point merely facilitate the mechanics of the election
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what would be a better question, Kas?
[9:55] Mikelo Serevi: Complainers sometimes complain for the sake of it
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, the RA agreed to a contractual process, and now you’re looking to breach that
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: that is untrue kas
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: much as everything is beyond the scope of the last british govt and much is beyond the capacity of the highest party there at the moment
[9:56] Mikelo Serevi: Or perhaps to lock us in a loop of inaction
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: nothing i am suggesting alters the agreement with AA
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then Patty what does it do ?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: all it does is supply the next RA and the AA estate owner with more information
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt: So Pat why do it. The people have not complained about the merger
[9:56] Pip Torok: As far as I’m concerned, it doesnt matter which terms RA authorises it as long as one IS authorised
[9:56] Mikelo Serevi: Might I suggest positive suggestions rather than arrow-slinging? 😉
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Gwen, I’d suggest a few questions to get at level of involvement, knowledge of what the merger is and isn’t, and a variety of outcome preferenes – but survey design’s not my area of expertise
[9:57] Arria Perreault: Tor, I think we have heard very different opinions
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: if you are right tor, the answer will be an overwheliming ‘yes’. so what’s the problem?
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Expressed only by Pat
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think RA isn’t the place to ask the questions that have been explored at Town halls
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we can’t do “survey design” on a referendum… I agree with that… but we can just establish preferences
[9:57] Pip Torok: AND by me too, Soro!!!!!
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that even the town hall took a vast amount of time
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and as we are often reminded
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the RA is a meeting of 2 hrs
[9:58] Tor Karlsvalt: The problem is that you are a trying to force the next RA into a positon that may be against the best interest of CDS.
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: of which one hour has past
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should move to tthe vote then?
[9:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we are only not even half way thru an agenda
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why move to a vote ?
[9:58] Arria Perreault: I call the vote now
[9:58] Kaseido Quandry: Right, Gwyn, you’re using the wrong tool for the job 😉
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the citizens we asked
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I may… this RA has been often accused ofnot caring/not wanting to listen to citizens’ wishes. The accusations might be right or not. Now it proposes to allow citizens to say exactly what they want, and now people are against it.
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: weren’t interested in the proposal
[9:58] Arria Perreault: the motion was seconded, Stui
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i will restate the motion
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you asked them
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we add a referendum question to teh ballot for the may elections
[09:40] Patroklus Murakami: the question to be “Do you want the merger between the CDS and Al Andalus to become permanent?”
[9:58] Mikelo Serevi: lol gwyn
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they showed little support for this
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to see some consistency… does this RA want or not to listen to citizens after all?? I’m confused!
[9:59] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pat
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: folks, we are in a vote 🙂
[9:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: was the query just for the sake of politeness ?
[9:59] Mikelo Serevi: this is what I mean about complainers
[9:59] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: aye
[9:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: NAY
[9:59] Solomon Mosely: lol, gwen
[9:59] Imotali Antiesse: abstain
[9:59] Solomon Mosely: we’ll remember that
[9:59] Lilith Ivory: nay
[10:00] Timo Gufler: abstain
[10:00] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:00] Pip Torok objects STRONGLY to Sol’s “we’ll remember that” …
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip you can object to it
[10:00] Solomon Mosely: oh, dont the groups have a survey function?
[10:00] Pip Torok: imo it sounds like manipulation
[10:00] Arria Perreault: 5 aye, 2 nay, 2 abst. motions carried
[10:00] Solomon Mosely: yes, they do
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: More like a threat
[10:00] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:00] Arria Perreault: next point
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but you can’t realistically query the necessity for them to remember what upsets the citizens
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and you each have to be re-elected
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: smart timing
[10:01] Arria Perreault: STV Quota Bill
[10:01] Solomon Mosely: i cant believe you guys
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ell, referendums can only by called during election…
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: folks, these meetings are tough enough to chair if everyone behaves themselves. could we try to help arria out a little more?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: And a renunciation of a prior act.
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I won’t gloat
[10:01] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2830#p14851
[10:01] Solomon Mosely: ohh, sure thing pat
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh Patty I feel sorry for Arria having to control this circus
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: shall i introduce this arria?
[10:02] Arria Perreault: there was a threat in the forum about this
[10:02] Solomon Mosely: hey, you owe her the favor, not us
[10:02] Pip Torok: Madame LRA, I call upon Sol to withdraw the remark “we’ll remember that”
[10:02] Arria Perreault: yes, Pat
[10:02] Arria Perreault: I am not so good in math 😉
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then if the RA would play by the rules in many respects and fulfill their duties THEN her job would be easier
[10:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if not easy
[10:03] Kaseido Quandry: heaven forfend there should be an expression of democratic accountability!
[10:03] Solomon Mosely: oh, i meangt her dedication to finding the real concerns of the citizens
[10:03] Solomon Mosely: how important a referendum is to seeking it
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: this one is an ‘optional extra’ which i thinki it would be good for the RA to consider
[10:03] Arria Perreault: please
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: as delia has posted, we can muddle through in these elections
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: just using what jon has programmed into the software
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: but i think, for the avoidance of doubt, it’s better to make a decision
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: it’s about tidying up a bit of the election reform
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: when we moved over to Single Transferable Vote
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *mutters* muddling thru seems to be the habit here not the novelty
[10:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: the RA did not specifiy how the threshhold for getting elected was to be calculated
[10:05] Delia Lake checks her post to see if she really used the word “muddle”…
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: the most common method is the ‘droop quota’ which i posted about on the thread mentions
[10:05] Solomon Mosely: i have that NC about a commission proposal
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: *mentioned
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: there are other though
[10:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: stage whisper I used to be quite the amateur dramatic… you know that Actors are not so well thought of when they try to be political
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: and my post was meant to highlight the options
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all options or those which are favourable Patty ?
[10:06] Delia Lake posts the thread for the Forum discussion of this. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2830#p14851
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: if the RA feels ready to, we should make a clear choice. if not, we can use droop for now and return to this when ppl have had more time to consider
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[10:06] Pip Torok agrees with Pat
[10:06] Lilith Ivory: just read Delias post and I agree woith her
[10:07] Arria Perreault: thank you Pat
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: if RA members have not had time to read my proposal, delia’s suggestion makes a great deal of sense
[10:08] Arria Perreault: discussion?
[10:08] Lilith Ivory: I´m not ready to vote for anyting than the system Delia suggests
[10:09] Imotali Antiesse: Agree Lilith
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid I have to agree with Lilith too… I haven’t seen alternatives either
[10:09] Pip Torok: me too
[10:09] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: let’s table this then, i withdraw the proposal
[10:09] Pip Torok: ??
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw my bill 🙂
[10:10] Pip Torok: what droop will that leave us with then?
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: delia said “I recommend the RA vote to approve for this current election the methodology Jon has already included in the program. If the RA would prefer a different quota methodology, make that change apply to future elections but not to this one.”
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: brewers droop
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 🙂
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well, that just means that we’ll see the results of Jon’s calculations first (using the droop he has configured) and will discuss if it was the right one after the election….
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami smiles
[10:11] Arria Perreault: withdraw means we don’t change it for the election of the 14th RA?
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: thing is, you have to use *some* method. ‘droop’ is the default if you have no strong opinion another way
[10:11] Delia Lake: will discuss if it is the right one moving forward to the next election. it needs to be the right one for this election if we are to hold an election where polls open on 15 Man
[10:11] Delia Lake: *15 May
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: I’m assuming jon’s new software doesn’t change the way elections are decided
[10:12] Pip Torok: I propose that the RA choose the Droop
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: hi City
[10:12] Patroklus Murakami: aah, so you want me to reintroduce my bill pip? 🙂
[10:12] City Neiro: hello
[10:12] Kaseido Quandry: Will the raw votes and/or the software source code be made public?
[10:12] Delia Lake: of course it changes the way elections are decided, Mikelo. the previous elections were by Faction, and used a Borda count
[10:12] Timo Gufler: that’s a good question, Kas
[10:12] Arria Perreault: Hi City
[10:13] Delia Lake: this is different
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: yes kas, provided the SC approves
[10:13] Pip Torok: no only to establish what we actually wish to have used, pat
[10:13] Timo Gufler: where, can I see the code?
[10:13] Pip Torok: can you read Python, Timo?
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: well, we should use droop for this election. we can change the method for future elections
[10:13] Timo Gufler: sure
[10:14] Arria Perreault: the question is: do we vote now for future election or not?
[10:14] Delia Lake: it the past Jon has made the data available but not quite raw as he has removed the personal identifier information. otherwise we do not have a secret ballot
[10:14] Kaseido Quandry: excellent, Delia, thanks
[10:14] Patroklus Murakami: arria, for this election solely.
[10:14] Pip Torok: agree
[10:14] Timo Gufler: if I would like to view the code, where can I get it?
[10:15] Timo Gufler: from Jon?
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: i second pip’s proposal
[10:15] Timo Gufler: how do I know, the same version is running in the server?
[10:15] Arria Perreault: good
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: timo, could we deal with this offline?
[10:15] Delia Lake: right now the code is in testing mode. you might want to be part of the test group that Jon asked for for this evening, Timo
[10:15] Arria Perreault: can you write again the motion?
[10:15] Timo Gufler: ok…
[10:16] Arria Perreault: so we know about wat we vote
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: pip: I propose that the RA choose the Droop
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: with the clarification that it is for this election
[10:16] Pip Torok: I propose that the RA choose the Droop
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: is that right pip?
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes
[10:17] Delia Lake: assuming that Jon has used Droop which i believe he has
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: i believe he has, but he was waiting for RA decision ot finalise it
[10:17] Arria Perreault: we can vote now
[10:17] Mikelo Serevi: practically speaking, it might cause technical problems if we were to change this late in the game
[10:18] Delia Lake: exactly, Mikelo
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: so aye
[10:18] Pip Torok: aye
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: uhm… what does “choose the droop” mean?
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: brewers droop Lil
[10:18] Pip Torok: it means incorpoate it in the votie=processing software
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: ah ok
[10:18] Arria Perreault: Pat, can you explane quickly?
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2830#p14851
[10:19] Patroklus Murakami notes we are in the middle of a vote again!
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: It means go with the default quota that the voting software has now, rather than alter it
[10:19] Arria Perreault: it determines the minimum number of votes a candidate need to be elected
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: it is based on the number of seats and the number of votes cast
[10:20] Solomon Mosely: isnt this being tabled till next election?
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: the formula is in the post i linked to above
[10:20] Arria Perreault: vote+1 / seat+ 1
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: we need to make a decision about this now, for this election, or we will not be able to elect a new RA!
[10:21] Kaseido Quandry: Why not just move to accept Jon’s software as written?
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good idea, Kas hehe
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: we are doing kas
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: What is Jon’s reccomendation?
[10:21] Lilith Ivory: I agree Kas
[10:21] Arria Perreault: Kas, the democracy is ove the technic
[10:21] Mikelo Serevi: That’s what we’re doing, I think
[10:21] Arria Perreault: over*
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: jon programmed with the droop quota in mind
[10:21] Timo Gufler: I don’t want to accept something, I haven’t seen
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: but with the option to change it if we choose something else
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: i agree timo
[10:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: has this been adequately tested ?
[10:21] Kaseido Quandry: for this election?!
[10:22] Pip Torok: Timo … its been in the Forums for weeks
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: so let’s decide on the droop method for this election
[10:22] Delia Lake: the testing is this evening, here in sl in the CDS
[10:22] Arria Perreault: I can say I would never make a “pragmatic” decision in this field
[10:22] Timo Gufler: yes, but only theaory
[10:22] Timo Gufler: *theory
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can’t really approve anything that hasn’t been tested surely
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: stui, we are not approving anything that needs testing
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s like trusting in God to pick your next leader
[10:22] Pip Torok: hence tonights test, Stui!
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: we are approving a methodology
[10:22] Timo Gufler: imho, the code should be posted to forums
[10:22] Solomon Mosely: that ia already in practice?
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: droop has been used in countless STV elections
[10:22] Delia Lake: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2854
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tonights test
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the test comes after the vote ?
[10:23] Solomon Mosely: is
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how does the test influence the capacity to vote ?
[10:23] Arria Perreault: in an informatic project, the conception comes before the development and the tests, Stui
[10:23] Pip Torok: how can _tonights test_ come after the vote, Stui?
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: the test is to make sure the mechanics all work stui
[10:23] Arria Perreault: don’t let you governed by algorithms 😉
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: this is separate
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: it is unfinished business the previous RA should have considered
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: but it is a technical detail so they can be forgiven
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well the present RA hardly considered it timeously
[10:24] Arria Perreault: make decisions about the way the software has to be pdevelopped
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: but if you do not say how the victory threshold is set, you cannot allocate any seats under STV
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: so we have to make a decision
[10:25] Imotali Antiesse: Isn’t this a proposal already being disagreed earlier?
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it seems a bit rich to criticise the past when the present hasn’t made much work on it until it’s last opportunity
[10:25] Pip Torok despairs at a RA forced to go at the pace of the slowest to understand ….
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: well, let’s remedy that now, shall we/
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: ?
[10:25] Arria Perreault: are you ready to vote?
[10:26] Pip Torok: yes
[10:26] Mikelo Serevi: I already ayed
[10:26] Pip Torok: aye
[10:26] Timo Gufler: nay
[10:26] Arria Perreault: I call the vote
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: i already said aye
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I despair at the man who thinks he’s the quickest purely on his lack of care for detail
[10:26] Pip Torok: aye
[10:26] Imotali Antiesse: nay
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:27] Arria Perreault: Stui?
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well if delia doesn’t see it to be a problem
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then I trust her judgement
[10:28] Arria Perreault: your vote, please
[10:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sooner trust the judgement of someone who thinks 🙂
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: a clear ‘aye’ or ‘nay’ is really all we need stui
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: would you like to tell me which to say too Patty ?
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE
[10:29] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (just incase he happens to try to do so)
[10:29] Arria Perreault: 7 aye, 2 nay. motion carried
[10:29] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:30] Arria Perreault: c. Setting a Size for the RA
[10:30] Mikelo Serevi: so we can vote, that’s good to know 🙂
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: yes mikelo! a relief!
[10:30] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2731#p14636
[10:30] Lilith Ivory: was´t it already aproved that there are 13 seats in the next term?
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: yes lilith, according to our current rules. this would change the rules to get a different number
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: good point lil
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: shall in introduce the proposal?
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: *I
[10:31] Arria Perreault: this point has also been discussed in the forum
[10:31] Arria Perreault: yes, Pat
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: well, this is one i’m not too wedded to so I would be interested to get ppls views
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve been banging on this for a while tho
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: i think the RA is too big
[10:32] Solomon Mosely: leave it be
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: and i think 10% of population is too much
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: it means too many ppl have to be prepared to be on the RA to get a decent choice at voting time
[10:32] Arias Ahren: raises hand
[10:32] Pip Torok: on what do you base that Pat?
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: the next RA will have 13 seats but only 16 candidates
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: that’s not a real choice
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: i would prefer a smaller RA which is more effective but still representative
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok, if we like direct democracy and referendums, why want to reduce the size of RA?
[10:33] Solomon Mosely: does that meaan you think its a burden on our democracy to have too many peopole required to be educated on issues?
[10:33] Pip Torok: but thats simply the way the numbers came out this time, Pat
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Tor
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: last time only one person met the deadline the first time
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: so, under my proposal, the RA would still grow as the CDS grows
[10:34] Arria Perreault: I remind you it’s a constitutionnal change
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: but more slowly
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well… research shows that productive meetings are had when the attendants are 7 ± 2 🙂 It’s the way we humans are hardwired….
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: 2 more reps for every 50 citizens
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: instead of 5 as at present
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[10:34] Arria Perreault: Arias have asked to speak
[10:34] Arias Ahren: Yes
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS is not likely to grow fast if past history can be used as a guid for the future.
[10:34] Pip Torok: imo … produciveness depends on the calibre of the members not their number
[10:35] Arias Ahren: I think Pats points and gwens recent comments are germain and shoud be given serious consideration
[10:35] Arria Perreault: please, let talk people who have asked for the floor
[10:35] Imotali Antiesse: agree Pip
[10:35] Arias Ahren: Seven has been suggested
[10:35] Patroklus Murakami: aah, but the more you have the more chance of a ‘princess’? “_
[10:35] Arias Ahren: I think that is two few
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think in a representative democracy which is sometimes not known for being truly representative to reduce the number seems like a further step in the wrong direction
[10:35] Pip Torok: I _did_ say “calibre”, Pat
[10:35] Arias Ahren: But nine might opperate more efficiently
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: If the people elect a princess, that is bad?
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[10:36] Pip Torok: Why nine, Arias?
[10:36] Pip Torok: (tell you later, Tor)
[10:36] Solomon Mosely: ahh, but you also get less ability to create majority with one group
[10:36] Arria Perreault: I will give you my opinion of LRA
[10:36] Timo Gufler: we should remember, that not everyone is present in every meeting
[10:36] Arias Ahren: Gwen stated,I believe correctly that in large corporations boards of & + or _ two get more done.
[10:37] Pip Torok: why do you equate _number_ with productivity?
[10:37] Arias Ahren: Thats 7
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: and a smaller number probably favors factions in the STV model.
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it wasn’t for the government to decide who should be eligible to vote
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *if
[10:37] Pip Torok: why do you equate _number_ with productivity?
[10:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then let’s decide how many they vote for on account of who we fear they may elect
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: experience pip. smaller RAs used to get more done. when we hit 11 or more the meetings became less easy to chair. look at today, arria is a star but it is really difficult to keep order and be productive
[10:38] Arias Ahren: you want the minimum number that can be representative
[10:38] Solomon Mosely: thank you pip
[10:38] Solomon Mosely: yes
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Pat you are getting a lot done today
[10:38] Solomon Mosely: lol
[10:38] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what due provocation to reduce the size of RA
[10:38] Pip Torok: ye but then ONE member can disrup the whole notion of productivity
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: a samller number makes it difficult for new residents to take part in politics
[10:39] Timo Gufler: that’s true, Lilith
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: can’t the LRA eject a disruptive member?
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: that’s an excellent point, Lilith
[10:39] Arias Ahren: Not necessarly lilith
[10:39] Mikelo Serevi: 6-12 is generally the most productive
[10:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: would you have 45 elected reps for the 52 states of america ?
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: sure it does
[10:39] Timo Gufler: I propose 12 then 😉
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: no tor. need a 2/3 vote to do so. never happened in my experience
[10:39] Arria Perreault: I think this question is also related with the way the RA works, so rules of procedures. now we allow also citizen to talk in the meetings. It is very hard to manage (believe me). With 15 or 13 seats, it will be still harder and we will loose quality on the debates. My expeerience of the 11th RA with this terrible queue object was dispappointing.
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: hmmm
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how do you tell 7 groups of people they don’t matter ?
[10:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s the same principle
[10:40] Arria Perreault: we were 13
[10:40] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[10:40] Ranma Tardis: may I speak?
[10:40] Lilith Ivory: I don´t think we´ve ever been 13
[10:40] Arria Perreault: I am in favour of a reduction of the number of seats
[10:41] Arria Perreault: een with 11, it’s not easy
[10:41] Pip Torok: if the LRA has that opinion, then I wd defer to her on this point
[10:41] Arria Perreault: even*
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: That is true
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: with my proposal, the next RA would have 9 seats instead of 13
[10:41] Solomon Mosely: i’m in favor of taking steps to improve procedure to handle the established representation
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: five (plus two seats for every 50 citizens
[10:41] Arria Perreault: it would good, I think
[10:41] Arias Ahren: Good number
[10:42] Delia Lake raises her hand
[10:42] Ranma Tardis: may I speak, raises hand
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: Candidates declared on a set of rules currently in effect – you *cannot* change those rules in the middle of an election campaign!
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Ramana was first
[10:42] Arria Perreault: sorry
[10:42] Ranma Tardis: I yield to Delia
[10:42] Solomon Mosely: thank you kas
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Ramna, then Delia
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Kas it smells
[10:42] Pip Torok: Good point, Kas
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: yes Kas
[10:43] Delia Lake: i’m getting a little confused here, and am wondering if it might be because in the discussion number of RA is being confused with process and organization and presentation of proposals
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: also
[10:43] Pip Torok: i thought this was a discussion only
[10:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what does it mean for Quorum ?
[10:43] Arria Perreault: the constitutional change about faction was made near the election too
[10:44] Ranma Tardis: I point out that a smaller number while might be more “productive” would tend to be a group elected by the majority and miss miniority groups
[10:44] Arria Perreault: 6
[10:44] Delia Lake: would the number be unwieldy if proposals were posted with the agenda so people got to think them through ahead of time?
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: kas, that ship has sailed! a previous RA changed the rules *in the middle of voting*! so there is precedent for this kind of change so close to an election
[10:44] Pip Torok notes the “might” in Ranma’s remark
[10:44] Ranma Tardis: the larger the number will allow for a more diverse group of viewpoints
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: contempt for justice in the past isn’t a precedent to lean on, Pat
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: quorum is still the same stui 50% plus one so 5 if my proposal were passed
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you were elected to a small RA
[10:45] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s more a point of how well groups work together
[10:45] Ranma Tardis: the might is not every group is going to put up someone for election
[10:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you would have restricted capacity to have an RL too
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: true kas but i don’t think this is quite the same situation
[10:45] Pip Torok: my point M

Permalink.

15th Representative Assembly (10)

RA Meeting 26 June 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. Rights to write in the Forums
c. 7-day votes
d. Recorder
e. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. Concerns of Citizens

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. CDS Budget

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)
a. Sims upgrade
b. New Guild
c. Tier policy
d. Animation of the sims: program for the term
e. Marketing

V. Informations from the Executive team

VI. Concerns of RA Members

VII. Announcements

VII. Adjournment

Transcript

[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Arria..
[12:04] Fern Leissa:

Having some technical problems
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi …
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Pip
[12:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi all
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Tor
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Havin some promlems I am

[12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: yes technical problems all week
[12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: esp since the last update
[12:05] (Amacci Classic AO “Lite” – backup copy): Sit anywhere: On
[12:05] Pip Torok: that explains alot
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Yeah didn’t help trying to walk around SLB8
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: fyi, if you have shared media, the budget webpage is on the wall
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: lag was bad at SL8B
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: esp. the first day
[12:06] Agenda Giver owned by Cindy Ecksol gave you ‘RA Meeting – 26th June – Agenda’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/165/41 ).
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: seems to have subsided a bit
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Yeah I agree Tor. A little better
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: of course LL suggests you use system hair and cloths.
[12:07] Fern Leissa: not a chance lol
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: but who wants to be caught looking like a noob who just hatched. hah
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yes fern
[12:08] Pip Torok:

[12:08] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: need to fill my coffee cup
[12:08] Fern Leissa: Where is everybody Pip?
[12:09] Pip Torok: Arria … Rosie may well not be here (has RL houseguests)
[12:09] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:09] Fern Leissa: Oh btw trying to negotiate for leaving 1/2 later for rl party so I can catch part of your reading.
[12:09] Fern Leissa: Hi Arria
[12:09] Arria Perreault: Sonja will be late too
[12:09] Arria Perreault: we have quorum
[12:09] Arria Perreault: we can start
[12:10] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:10] Fern Leissa: kk . Esp as we have the poetry reading afterwards
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[12:10] Fern Leissa: wb

[12:10] Pip Torok: that film should be re-titled “Always on Sundays ” …
[12:11] Fern Leissa:

[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: well summer is hard to keep ppl online
[12:11] Arria Perreault: yes, I agree
[12:11] Arria Perreault: we try to make a short meeting today
[12:11] Arria Perreault: we have the budget to discuss
[12:12] Fern Leissa: Yeah.. I’m gonna be late for a rl party
[12:12] Arria Perreault: this important for the Chancellor
[12:12] Fern Leissa: Yes. Sorry Arria
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Arria
[12:12] Arria Perreault: Admin Part
[12:12] Arria Perreault: a. Review this agenda.
[12:12] Arria Perreault: do you agree with the agenda?
[12:12] Pip Torok: yes
[12:13] Fern Leissa: yes
[12:13] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:13] Arria Perreault: b. Rights to write in the Forums
[12:13] Arria Perreault: Pip told me that he cannot write in the forum’s part of the RA
[12:13] Arria Perreault: I can myself
[12:13] Arria Perreault: does anyone alse have trouble?
[12:14] Fern Leissa: I didn’t check today, but I was able to do so in the recent past
[12:14] Pip Torok: probably noone else has tried..
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen is Offline
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I will ask all RA member to make a test. then I will write to Delia
[12:14] Arria Perreault: is it ok?
[12:14] Pip Torok: i had hoped to put the 7-day in the same thread as the meeting announcement but i cdnt
[12:15] Arria Perreault: I understand, Pip. Only SC have admin rights
[12:15] Fern Leissa: I just got in to the RA Legislative Discussion section w/o problem
[12:15] Arria Perreault: it is right that the law allows the LRA to have an access to all communication channels of CDS
[12:16] Arria Perreault: good, Fern
[12:16] Pip Torok: ah .. then can it be set-down somewhere who has posting rights to which forums?
[12:16] Arria Perreault: I can ask Delia for that too, but basically it’s the SC and probably Gwyn
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I think Aliasi should have too
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Were the branch specific forums intended for announcements?
[12:17] Fern Leissa: You mean who has the rights to grant access Arria?
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I will ask Delia
[12:18] Pip Torok: what i meant are the rights to make regular posts within certain sections rather than the ability to amend the permissions
[12:18] Arria Perreault: it was in the Communication Bill
[12:18] Pip Torok: thank you
[12:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:18] Fern Leissa: So Arria… you will check w/ Delia to see why Pip can’t post?
[12:18] Arria Perreault: yes, I will
[12:18] Fern Leissa:

[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip, I thought your question was to be able to post to the RA forum.
[12:19] Arria Perreault: do you have the right role in the CDS group: gov?
[12:19] Popea Heron is Offline
[12:19] Pip Torok: no tor … within the Forums are different sections with varying permissions
[12:19] Arria Perreault: like me now
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: and two for RA
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: one is reserved for the LRA
[12:20] Pip Torok: right …
[12:20] You decline Creating a Community: Steampunk Environments from A group member named Wordsmith Jarvinen.
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: the other is for RA members in general
[12:20] Pip Torok: ah! …
[12:20] Arria Perreault: yes, it’s so
[12:21] Pip Torok: so i wd need to start a new thread to declare a 7-day …
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:21] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: well in the RA member thread
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: or the general one
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn is Offline
[12:22] Arria Perreault: can we go further?
[12:22] Arria Perreault: c. 7-day votes
[12:22] Pip Torok: yes
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Just a suggestion, but prolly best if that stuff be posted in the RA forum so as not to get lost in the weeds
[12:22] Fern Leissa: Yes

[12:22] Arria Perreault: Pip has requested a 7-day vote.
[12:22] Sonja Strom is Online
[12:22] Valibrarian Gregg is Online
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: sonja has logged on
[12:22] Arria Perreault: if we have to vote during this meeting, other members will have a 7-day vote
[12:23] Arria Perreault: yes, I saw
[12:23] Pip Torok: in case the meeting overruns 9ill also need set-up time for the poetry Sunday
[12:23] Arria Perreault: d. Recorder
[12:23] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip
[12:23] Arria Perreault: I have infortunately lost the 2/3 of the transcript of the Town Hall
[12:24] Arria Perreault: I apoologize for that
[12:24] Fern Leissa: np. It happens.
[12:24] Pip Torok: agrees with Fern
[12:24] Arria Perreault: it reminded me recorder we had in the past. it sent the logs in an emal
[12:24] Arria Perreault: email
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe someone has it
[12:24] Arria Perreault: I have asked Cindy
[12:24] Sonja Strom: Hello everyone :-)

sorry I’m late.
[12:25] Arria Perreault: Hi SOnja ㋡
[12:25] Fern Leissa: Hi Sonja
[12:25] Pip Torok: hi Sonja!
[12:25] Arria Perreault: we are in the admin part
[12:25] Sonja Strom: ok
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I am looking for the old recorder we had
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: those of you who have v2 should be able to see the budget on the prim
[12:25] Arria Perreault: thx or
[12:25] Arria Perreault: Tor*
[12:26] Arria Perreault: e. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:26] Arria Perreault: I think we will all speak today ㋡
[12:26] Valibrarian Gregg is Offline
[12:26] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens
[12:26] Valibrarian Gregg is Online
[12:26] Marian Sapphire is Online
[12:26] Fern Leissa: I’d definitly like to speak for a few minutes on the tier policy
[12:27] Arria Perreault: does anyone wants to speak as citizen
[12:27] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:27] Fern Leissa: no
[12:27] Valibrarian Gregg is Offline
[12:27] Pip Torok: no
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I have a citizen concern for myself
[12:27] Arria Perreault: it’s about the Pavillion at SL8B
[12:27] Valibrarian Gregg is Online
[12:28] Arria Perreault: I have found great that Tor and Rosie have mde this pavillion
[12:28] Arria Perreault: I think that it is a good presence for CDS
[12:28] Arria Perreault: but they have ask for contributions
[12:28] Arria Perreault: I guess several people have responded
[12:29] Arria Perreault: I did and I was surprised that in the final result no one of my stuffs were exhibited. Only the notecard was used.
[12:29] Arria Perreault: I have tried to discuss with you Tor and with Rosie
[12:30] Arria Perreault: and I hareally had to insist to see things changed
[12:30] Arria Perreault: My concerns are:
[12:31] Arria Perreault: 1) when someone asks for contribution for a CDS project, he/she has a duty to inform people about their contribution and to talk with them. I don’t see such exhibitions like artist’s artworks
[12:32] Arria Perreault: 2) It’s an official presentation of CDS. So I think citizen poeple have to be taken in account
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I have to add that we have finally found a solution that was good for me
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I don’t know if you will add something, Tor?
[12:33] Moon Adamant is Offline
[12:33] Arria Perreault: or someone else?
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: ys] [12:33] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:34] Pip Torok: just one concern from mizou … about the orange pavilion in LA …
[12:34] Pip Torok: “will it be taken down now that floralia is over?”
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: The SL8B team did indeed ask for contributions from citizens and friends of CDS.

However the team still will decide what is placed in the pavilion and where anything is placed.

The application for SL8B, the build of the exhibit, it’s theme and its execution are the responsibility of the Chancellor and the team charged with the duty of finishing the exhibit.

As such, the Exhibitors, acknowledged by LL and the Chancellor have no obligation to place every contribution given to the team. Indeed, the team’s objective is to create an exhibit that CDS can be proud of.
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I will tell Anna to remove he bumper cars.
[12:37] Arria Perreault: Tor, I understand that you don’t have to take every given object, but you have to inform people and maybe to talk with them. I am talking about the internal process in CDS.
[12:37] Fern Leissa: brb
[12:37] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:38] Arria Perreault: can we go to the next point now?
[12:38] Pip Torok: yes
[12:38] Arria Perreault: a. CDS Budget
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Frankly, Arria, I don’t. And given the deadlines we had, I did not think it conducive to a good result to get embroiled in arguments while the team had deadlines.
[12:39] Sonja Strom: Maybe this discussion is not yet complete?
[12:39] Arria Perreault: it’s a question of organization, in my point of view.
[12:39] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, request for contribution = feedbacks
[12:39] Valibrarian Gregg is Offline
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: noted
[12:40] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:40] Arria Perreault: any other comments, requests?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: concern?
[12:40] Fern Leissa: I agree with Arria here. At least explain the constraints and deadlines and why suggestions were not included
[12:40] Sonja Strom: I would like to say one thing about that too,
[12:40] Arria Perreault: ok, Sonja
[12:41] Sonja Strom: mostly because there were requests made for people to submit materials.
[12:41] JJ Drinkwater is Offline
[12:41] Sonja Strom: Then when people submitted them, naturally they would want to either have them be included in the exhibit,
[12:41] Sonja Strom: or for them to be given an explanation why they were not.
[12:42] Sonja Strom: Maybe not everything could be included,
[12:42] Sonja Strom: that is always a possibility.
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: We do not have time to offer that kind of feedback on every item offered. And much provided was not used.
[12:42] Sonja Strom: But, respect should be given to the work that was put into it,
[12:43] Sonja Strom: It is nice to try to include everything,
[12:43] Pip Torok notes the process resembles an editor accepting/rejecting/amending articles for inclusion within a journal
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: it is unrealistic to assume we have time to cretique, offer feedback and wait for responces while we have items that are already good and far better.
[12:43] Sonja Strom: and then to explain why certain things could not be used to the people who contributed them.
[12:43] Sonja Strom: Whether or not you had time to let people know that is a matter of perspective.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: That can be done now and had
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: had
[12:43] Sonja Strom: Personally I believe it could have been done.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: has
[12:44] Sonja Strom: I have done that kind of thing myself…
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: but i don’t think a public airing is warrented on this matter
[12:44] Sonja Strom: A public airing of what?
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: reasons why items are not used.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: this has already been done
[12:44] Sonja Strom: I did not mean to say each item should be explained here in the RA…
[12:45] Arria Perreault: it’s the price when you ask for contribution, Tor
[12:45] Sonja Strom: what I was trying to say was, it would have been good if you would have had better communication with Arria about her contributions, if not those of others as well.
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I disagree Arria
[12:46] Sonja Strom: That is about all I want to say about it. Thanks
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: others seemed to understand that what we wanted to use would be used.
[12:46] Arria Perreault: the risk is now that poeple will hesitate to contribute
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I disagree
[12:46] Arria Perreault: we will see
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: to my recollection we have not been in SL8b since the 5th one
[12:47] Arria Perreault: Tor, we are happy to have this pavillion
[12:48] Arria Perreault: I think that we have to respect some processes when contributions are asked for an official CDS project
[12:49] Arria Perreault: that’s my concern and nothing else
[12:49] Arria Perreault: can we go to the next point now?
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: surely
[12:49] Arria Perreault: a. CDS Budget
[12:49] Fern Leissa: brb
[12:49] Arria Perreault: you have the floor Tor
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok thank you
[12:50] Arria Perreault: the RA members can ask questions
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: just a few points
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I included the data from the May financials.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Seems may was a good month.
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: so when I factor the income for May and use the average income in the current budget we actually have a surplus.
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Several amedment have been suggested
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: one was an increase in the amount put tward NG projects.
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: that i think it was suggested by Rosie to have 1500 per month set aside for this
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: this is nly to facilitate startup costs associated with projects.
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: Talk of tier reform would change things.
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not opposed to tier reform.
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I think our tier is a bit higher than most other estates.
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not sure that is the main reason we have experienced a decline in residents.
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I make note of some reasons on the second page of the budjet
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: in the notes.
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[12:54] Pip Torok is sure that it is NOT the reason for the decline
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: alas I agree Pip
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: a number of reasons are given
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: sometimes tho they mask the real reason.
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: but i try to take ppls at their word.
[12:56] Fern Leissa: b
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Fern
[12:57] Arria Perreault: other remarks , Tor?
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: um, no, just if I have questions.
[12:57] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:57] Arria Perreault: who wants to ask questions to Tor?
[12:58] Pip Torok: yes … cd the way forward be to liaise directly with Rosie ?
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Um not sure what you mean, Pip, but let me venture
[12:58] Fern Leissa: No questions. I would also like to see the amt of monies for NG projects increased to 1500 per mo
[12:59] Pip Torok: me too
[12:59] Fern Leissa: Otherwise.. I have looked at the Chancellor’s budget and am in agreement
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: I remember last term we had a NG project that required a delay only for lack of a few funds.
[12:59] Arria Perreault: which project?
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: the intent for the item in the budget was to rectify the need to ask RA for a budget change for evey project. Also, I anticipated her disire to get the NG moving on sim upgrades which had also been a desire of mine from even my first election.
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I have a question/remark
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria, that would be the project to close the sides of AM and NFS on the East side.
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: The project was successful in part.
[13:02] Arria Perreault: it’s about Radio Riel. I am not the only to have question about that. Rosie talked also about that. I don’t want to change the budget only about that. But …
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie did a wonderful job, but it seems the mega prims used don’t rezz when looking at them from Al Garnata
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Well Radio Riel was an item begun by Sonja the prior chancellor
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I continued it and gave RR the PSA.
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I think we need advertising for our community. I have the following suggestion: keep this 5000 L$ in advertising/marketing budget and look what is the best way to use them
[13:03] Arria Perreault: SL ads are very rewarding
[13:04] Arria Perreault: especially when they are connected with little attractions like a treasure hunt
[13:04] Arria Perreault: it’s my exprience in the Monastery
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, I recall that Rosie mentioned posting ads on our public buildings.
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: they do not cost much
[13:04] Arria Perreault: yes and it works very well
[13:04] Fern Leissa: Sonja, now that we’ve had some time advertising w/ Radio Riel.. what do you think? Should we continue to invest there
[13:05] Arria Perreault: do you have something for that in your budget?
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: we do but i thin it is 2000 a month
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I see: 2000 L$
[13:05] Sonja Strom: I believe it is a good choice for the CDS to continue to support Radio Riel.
[13:05] Pip Torok agrees
[13:06] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:06] Arria Perreault: other questions?
[13:06] Fern Leissa: Ok. Agree maybe we should give Radio Riel another year
[13:06] Pip Torok: none from me
[13:06] Fern Leissa: Do we want to go ahead and add a little more to the advertising budget for other options?
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: well i might add with regard to RR
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: one thing it does do is puts us out with other very active SL groups.
[13:07] Arria Perreault: Fern, we have to accept the budget as it is or ask Tor to change it for next time
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: we look like we support the larger SL
[13:07] Arria Perreault: but we have only one month since it’s publication to accept it
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: esentially I hink we buy some goodwill with people
[13:08] Fern Leissa: Would we be accepting w/o the additions to NG funds?
[13:08] Arria Perreault: with
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: you can vote on that
[13:08] Sonja Strom: I agree with Tor on this, with regard to our support of Radio Riel.
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: i have 14 days to accept a revised budget
[13:08] Fern Leissa: Ok. Than I’m fine with the budge
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Tor has amended the budget based on our remarks in the forum (which is a good process)
[13:09] Fern Leissa: *budget
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: should I increase the amount for NG projects.
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Rosie had 1500 per month.
[13:09] Pip Torok: im fine with the budget too
[13:09] GreyEagle Tigerfish is Online
[13:10] Fern Leissa: I agree w/ 1500 per month Tor. Is that not in the budget now?
[13:10] Arria Perreault: Tor, it’s up to you. If you say now that you put 1500 Là, we vote with 1500
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I have to add, I don’t think anything is set in stone. We can change things as necessary. I will accept the 1500 for the NG
[13:10] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: naturally any hughe expenditures would have to come to RA
[13:11] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:11] Pip Torok: in that case I move that the Budget be accepted
[13:11] Arria Perreault: other questions?
[13:11] Fern Leissa: seconded
[13:11] Arria Perreault: we can vote
[13:11] Pip Torok: aye
[13:11] Arria Perreault: RA members who accept the budget, please say aye
[13:11] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:12] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:12] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Rosie has still a 7-day vote, but the budget is accepted
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:12] Arria Perreault: thank you very much Tor
[13:12] Fern Leissa:
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Arria and RA.
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope we have a successful term for all.
[13:13] Arria Perreault: now CDS can spend money based on this budget
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:13] Fern Leissa:
[13:14] Arria Perreault: and you are welcome with special projects outside this budget
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: i will post it to the forum. I think I can as a pdf
[13:14] Arria Perreault: it would be good
[13:15] Arria Perreault: I propose we continue our program
[13:15] Arria Perreault: new items
[13:16] Arria Perreault: before we ake specific points, I have a general remark
[13:16] Arria Perreault: we have talked about our priorities. now we have to take care we do everything in order to reach some results.
[13:17] Arria Perreault: in the past, the RA had commissions
[13:17] Arria Perreault: I suggest that every RA member take one of these priorities
[13:17] Anna Toussaint is Online
[13:18] Arria Perreault: you can create a commission or launch a debate in the forum based on a proposal
[13:18] Arria Perreault: it’s important that citizen can participate
[13:19] Arria Perreault: there are also some topics that are already discussed in the forum. in this case, it’s your role to facilitate that this topics are discussed in the RA
[13:20] Arria Perreault: this process is not so heavy as commission for everything, but we have to make sure that we manage our different priorities
[13:20] Arria Perreault: do you think we can work so?
[13:20] Fern Leissa: Ok. I’d very much like to address tier policy. I could get together with Trebor. I think we are close on at least being able to vote yes or no
[13:20] Arria Perreault: yes, I think it’s important we take this point quickly
[13:20] Pip Torok: i agree for the simple (and grim) reason that there are so few of us
[13:21] Fern Leissa: And this is not on the list of new items but I would also like to bring the covenant rewrite to a vote
[13:21] Arria Perreault: do you agree that Fern is in charge of the tier question?
[13:21] Pip Torok: yes
[13:22] Arria Perreault: I agree too
[13:23] Arria Perreault: we have the following other priorities: sims upgrade, sims animation, marketing (increase the number of citizen)
[13:23] Pip Torok: and wd also like to bring the covenant rewrite to a vote
[13:23] Arria Perreault: you’re right Pip
[13:23] Fern Leissa: thank yu Pip
[13:23] Arria Perreault: Fern, is it ready to vote?
[13:23] Arria Perreault: the convenant?
[13:24] Fern Leissa: I can do a final rewrite and present next session
[13:24] Arria Perreault: it would be great ㋡
[13:24] Fern Leissa: We have had lots and lots of meetings and forum discussion
[13:24] Arria Perreault: I suggest you paste again the convenant in the forums before we vote it
[13:24] Pip Torok: a shame we cdnt have voted it thru at this meeting
[13:25] Fern Leissa: I will do that. Good idea
[13:25] Arria Perreault: we can vote in one week
[13:25] Fern Leissa: ooh. One week??? Next week is July 4th holiday in US
[13:25] Arria Perreault: who wants to be in charge of sims upgrade?
[13:26] Pip Torok: it wd make sense that Rosie is the one …
[13:26] Arria Perreault: oh! should we postpone the RA meeting and make it the week after?
[13:26] Fern Leissa: Agree
[13:26] Arria Perreault: do you agree that Rosie is in charge of sims upgrade?
[13:26] Fern Leissa: Yeah. I think so Arria. I don’ think I’ll be in town that weekend
[13:27] Fern Leissa: I do… if she’s willing
[13:27] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:27] Pip Torok: yes, with her consent of course
[13:27] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:27] Arria Perreault: we still have sim animation and marketing (how to attract new citizen)
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Sonja, Pip?
[13:28] Pip Torok: if “marketing” means recruitment of new members then put me down for “marketing”
[13:28] Sonja Strom: For me it is ok.
[13:28] Arria Perreault: great, thank you Pip
[13:28] Fern Leissa: Good. I support Pip
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Sonja, are you willing for the animations of the sims?
[13:29] Sonja Strom: Oh, sorry, I don’t want another job, hehe :-)
[13:29] Arria Perreault: right, you are already RA Archivist
[13:29] Arria Perreault: I can do it, if you agree
[13:29] Sonja Strom: yes, true
[13:29] Sonja Strom: I would be happy for Arria to do it.
[13:29] Fern Leissa: I agree Arria. That would be great
[13:29] Pip Torok: cd you please do it Arria?
[13:30] Arria Perreault: good, I will do it
[13:30] Fern Leissa:
[13:30] Arria Perreault: there are only too points of the agenda I would like to take today
[13:30] Leeorie Alter is Online
[13:30] Arria Perreault: sims update and what I have called “New guild”
[13:31] Arria Perreault: the rest we have to make next time
[13:31] Arria Perreault: sims update
[13:31] Pip Torok: in that case i need to excuase myself Mme LRA … the poetry on sunday awaits
[13:31] Arria Perreault: we canpostpone the point
[13:31] Fern Leissa: ah Pip. … bye
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: ok pip
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: see you soon
[13:32] Arria Perreault: do you want to postpone this point?
[13:32] Pip Torok: see you soon i hope!
[13:32] Fern Leissa: up to you Madame LRA
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I prefer to discuss with more poeple
[13:33] Arria Perreault: I move to table this point to the next meeting
[13:33] Fern Leissa: kk
[13:33] Arria Perreault: Sonja, do you agree?
[13:33] (Amacci Classic AO “Lite” – backup copy): Sit anywhere: Off
[13:34] Arria Perreault: she should be away
[13:34] Sonja Strom: yes, I agree
[13:35] Arria Perreault: ok. I will take this last point: New Guild
[13:35] Arria Perreault: today the New Guild has elected a new Secretary: Rosie
[13:36] Arria Perreault: I am sure that Rosie will be a dynamic Secretary of the Guild
[13:36] Arria Perreault: of course the New Guild was a bit sleepy since a while
[13:36] Arria Perreault: our newest citizen have never see the New Guild very active
[13:37] Arria Perreault: but the New Guild and especially Moon Adamant have accomplished a lot for our community
[13:38] Arria Perreault: Colonia Nova, Alpine Meadow, Locus Amoenus and also to facilitate the launch of the Monastery sim
[13:39] Arria Perreault: now Moon has stopped her activities as Secretary of the New Guild, we should find a way to honor her activities for our community and also all what the New Guild has made in the past
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt nods
[13:40] Fern Leissa: brb
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:41] Arria Perreault: there are several ways to honor people who have contribute to our community
[13:41] Arria Perreault: I think we should thank her personnally for her contributions
[13:43] Arria Perreault: can we organize a little event (maybe with a party) to thank her?
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Hear hear
[13:43] Sonja Strom: Do we know what she would like the most?
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Arria, thank you for suggesting it.
[13:43] Sonja Strom: But a party sounds good
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: i can find out sonja
[13:43] Arria Perreault: I know that she like parties
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: can I make a suggestion?
[13:44] Arria Perreault: yes, Tor
[13:44] Sonja Strom: Sounds even better then
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: It is common for most governments to have some award or acknoledgement
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps an Order of Anzere
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: or some other title
[13:44] Arria Perreault: good idea
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Moon could be the first inductee
[13:45] Arria Perreault: but we need a ceremony for that?
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Then name of course it open
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: but I thought it would be a nice gesture to the original sim
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: possible
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly
[13:46] Arria Perreault: and we need someone to creat a medal? Rosie?
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: eys
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: well she makes crowns and such
[13:46] Arria Perreault: yes, I know
[13:46] You decline Taverna To Limani from A group member named Anna Toussaint.
[13:47] Arria Perreault: Sonja, Fern do you agree with this idea?
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be nice if the RA voted a resolution maybe
[13:47] Arria Perreault: yes, we have to
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: to create the award.
[13:48] Arria Perreault: I will prepare a resolution for next time
[13:48] Fern Leissa: yes I agree with the party and with the idea of an award
[13:48] Ellie Brewster is Offline
[13:48] Fern Leissa: Order of Anzere sounds perfect
[13:48] Arria Perreault: we look since years something to honor poeple
[13:48] Arria Perreault: yes, I like the name
[13:49] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[13:49] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we prepare this resolution for next meeting (11 July)
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:49] Arria Perreault: the ceremony could be at the opening of Oktober fest
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, that would be very nice
[13:49] Fern Leissa: That’s a good idea
[13:50] Sonja Strom: Yes, good idea :-)
[13:50] Arria Perreault: great
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: esp since Oktoberfest is also our anniversary celebration
[13:50] Arria Perreault: I propose we adjourn now and we go to listen some poetry
[13:50] Fern Leissa:
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: very fitting
[13:50] Arria Perreault: ok for adjournment?
[13:51] Fern Leissa: second
[13:51] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:51] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:51] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:51] Arria Perreault: thank you for the constructive meeting
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[13:51] Sonja Strom: Thank you, Arria, and everyone!
[13:51] Sonja Strom: ☆´ Applause! `☆
[13:51] Fern Leissa: Yes…)))

Permalink.

RA Meeting 10 July 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Recorder
d. Code of law update
e. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. Concerns of Citizens

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. –

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term)
a. CDS Convenant
b. Order to honor citizen

V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
– Tier: Fern (Fern will contact Trebor)
– Sims upgrade: Rosie (if Rosie accepts)
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

Transcript

[12:06] Arria Perreault: We can start the meeting
[12:06] Pip Torok: not me, trebor
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Just you Trebor
[12:06] Arria Perreault: The agenda is in the box
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Still dark and romantic looking for me :0
[12:06] Trebor Warcliffe: hehehe
[12:06] Patroklus Murakami est connecté(e)
[12:06] Sonja Strom: hehe
[12:06] Pip Torok: hi Pat !!!
[12:06] Abbey Zenith est connecté(e)
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Pat ㋡
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello, Pat
[12:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Hello Pat, nice to see you!!!
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi Pat
[12:07] Pip Torok: is Rosie due in today, Mme LRA?
[12:07] Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone

[12:07] josjoha Resident: hi
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Pip, Rosie wrote a notecard to me
[12:07] Pip Torok: hi jos …
[12:07] josjoha Resident: hi Pip

[12:07] Sonja Strom: hi Patroklus and josjoha
[12:08] josjoha Resident: pleased to meet you, Sonja
[12:08] Arria Perreault: She said she can’t there on 17th. I think she had the meeting of today in mind
[12:08] Sonja Strom: :-)

[12:08] Pip Torok: mmm
[12:09] Arria Perreault: I will give you the informations she gave to me during the meeting
[12:09] Ingeborg Apfelbaum est déconnecté(e)
[12:09] Pip Torok: tks
[12:09] Arria Perreault: we start with the admin points
[12:10] Arria Perreault: a. Review this agenda.
[12:10] Arria Perreault: Do you agree witht the agenda of today?
[12:10] Thinkerer Melville est déconnecté(e)
[12:10] Arria Perreault: no change?
[12:11] Fern Leissa: Would it be possible to add an opportunity for Trebor to present his proposal for a tier reduction?
[12:11] Sonja Strom: I have no changes and agree to it.
[12:11] Arria Perreault: Fern, do you mean today?
[12:12] Fern Leissa: Yes, if possible. It is very difficult for him to make it on Sundays, but he could come today and has it ready
[12:12] Arria Perreault: Trebor are you ready to present something?
[12:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes i think so
[12:13] Arria Perreault: we don’t have yet a bill or a text to vote, right?
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: not to the best of my knowledge
[12:13] Arria Perreault: but you can introduce your proposal?
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Most of the activity concerning the tier proposal has taken place in the forums
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes i can explain it
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: And I’ve made available all of my works with the tier through Excel spreadsheets
[12:14] You decline Elegance Ballroom – A place of E, Elegance Ballroom (35, 147, 3 from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[12:14] Arria Perreault: good
[12:15] Malchior Negulesco est déconnecté(e)
[12:15] Arria Perreault: As you can be here often, I suggest you explain your point after the discussion about the convenant
[12:15] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:15] Arria Perreault: Order of Anzere can be discussed later, if necessary
[12:16] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)
a. CDS Convenant
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3485
b. Tier
c. Order to honor citizen
[12:16] Arria Perreault: do you agree with this agenda?
[12:16] Pip Torok: yes
[12:16] Arria Perreault: good
[12:17] Fern Leissa: yes
[12:17] Arria Perreault: we move to the next point
[12:17] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:18] Arria Perreault: Rosie did not ask for a 7-day vote. As she sent a notecard to say she is not here, we can admit she has one.
[12:18] Arria Perreault: no opposition?
[12:18] Pip Torok: non3e from me
[12:19] Fern Leissa: agree

she has 7-day vote
[12:19] Arria Perreault: c. Recorder
[12:19] Arria Perreault: I am looking for the recorder
[12:19] Arria Perreault: I have contacted Cindy
[12:19] Troy Kronfeld est connecté(e)
[12:20] Pip Torok: i can try to leave a skype message if you like, Mme LRA
[12:20] Arria Perreault: she said she doesn’t know where it is
[12:20] Pip Torok: ah ..

[12:20] Arria Perreault: we could try to get an other one
[12:21] Arria Perreault: if noboby has this item in his/her inventory
[12:21] Arria Perreault: I will see this with the Chancellor
[12:21] Arria Perreault: d. Code of law update
[12:22] Pip Torok: underlines the need for a contents archiver!
[12:22] Arria Perreault: I have read in the forum that some voted bills are still missing in the code of law in the portal
[12:22] Ingeborg Apfelbaum est connecté(e)
[12:22] Arria Perreault: Sonja is our RA Archivist
[12:23] Arria Perreault: we have to check if the laws voted during the two last terms are there
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Who has the ability to update the portal? There does seem to be some out of date stuff in there.
[12:23] Arria Perreault: The former content archivist had an access and Sonja has one
[12:23] Sonja Strom: Just to let you know, I do not have that ability.
[12:23] Sonja Strom: oh, ok :-)

[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Or old information I should say.
[12:24] Arria Perreault: Sonja, we have to test. I have asked for an access for you
[12:24] Arria Perreault: I have an acces too
[12:24] Sonja Strom: That was my understanding too — have I received the access?
[12:24] Ingeborg Apfelbaum est déconnecté(e)
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I think the account is created
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I will see if you got the code after the meeting
[12:25] Sonja Strom: good — I will look through my emails

[12:26] Arria Perreault: my suggestion is the following: we could check the code of law and update it (Sonja and I)
[12:26] Pip Torok: (sounds good to me)
[12:26] Arria Perreault: it’s important for the debates that the code is up to date
[12:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
[12:26] Arria Perreault: e. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:26] Fern Leissa: That would be work but awesome

[12:27] Arria Perreault: does anyone want to speak during this meeting?
[12:27] Sonja Strom: If anyone knows of a law that should be upadated, it would help for them to send me that information.
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: i found my old notetaker

if you give me an email address I’ll forward the transcripts after the meeting
[12:27] Arria Perreault: ok. If you have questions or remarks, just raise the hand
[12:27] Fern Leissa: Me about the covenant

[12:27] Pip Torok: ok …
[12:27] Ingeborg Apfelbaum est connecté(e)
[12:28] Popea Heron est connecté(e)
[12:28] Arria Perreault: arria.perreault at gmail
[12:28] Arria Perreault: Thank you Pat ㋡
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: thx arria

[12:28] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens
[12:29] Arria Perreault: who has a concern (as citizen)?
[12:30] Arria Perreault: we can start with the new items then
[12:30] Arria Perreault: a. CDS Convenant
[12:30] Arria Perreault: Fern, you have the floor
[12:30] Fern Leissa: Thank you Arria
[12:31] Scroll/w CDS Covenant DRAFT owned by Fern Leissa gave you ‘CDS CovenantDRAFT 2011-07-01’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/14/166/41 ).
[12:31] Fern Leissa: For anyone who wants a last look at the covenant… there is a copy in the scroll on the table in front of Arria
[12:32] Fern Leissa: I’d like to here from anyone with remaining concerns… otherwise I would like to ask for a vote on accepting the covenant as written and posted to the forum
[12:32] Fern Leissa: The date of the draft I am referring to is 2011-07-01
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: 8. Builds erected prior to the enactment of these general and sim-wide covenants are exempt from these restrictions
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Basically these covenents have been in existence
[12:33] Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
[12:33] Trebor Warcliffe: since CDS began correct
[12:33] Pip Torok: hi Sudane
[12:33] Sudane Erato: hi

[12:33] Fern Leissa: Hi Sudane

[12:33] Arria Perreault: we are discussing the convenants
[12:33] Fern Leissa: They have Trebor but they have been sometimes ignored and sometimes mis-understood
[12:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats kind of my point.
[12:34] Fern Leissa: The re-write was to try and make them more consistent across sims
[12:34] Fern Leissa: Sorry… go ahead Trebor
[12:34] Trebor Warcliffe: If it’s been law in the pass and the person has violated said law
[12:34] Pip Torok welcomes Trebor’s concern
[12:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Aren’t we in essence giving them amnesty?
[12:35] Trebor Warcliffe: Which brings me to my next point. Enforceability of the covenents in regards to the SIMS.
[12:35] Pip Torok: imo not necessarily, Trebor
[12:35] Trebor Warcliffe: These laws have been in place for years but they havent really been enforced. How is rewriting the covenent goign to change that.
[12:35] Fern Leissa: We are giving amnesty because they have not alwasy been enforced and not always clear. Also the Chancellor has had the right always, to approve builds that don’t strictly meet the covenant
[12:36] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok
[12:36] Trebor Warcliffe: I can agree with that. Sort of a clean slate approach
[12:36] Pip Torok:

[12:36] Fern Leissa: One of the issues also was to clarify so that it would be easier for the Chanellor to enforce. Tor and I have talked about that precise problem
[12:36] Trebor Warcliffe: Good to know.
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: One other question
[12:37] Fern Leissa: Sure

[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Im using Alpine Meadow as an example.
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: We have 4 “zones” and 4 “typologies”
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Each with their own set of “rules”
[12:38] Mathoni Zuhrah est connecté(e)
[12:38] Bagheera Kristan est connecté(e)
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Wouldnt it be easier to make each SIM more uniform.
[12:38] Pip Torok: hand up
[12:39] Fern Leissa: I did try to balance between making each sim more uniform and honoring the initial intent of the pp who designed each sim. I simplified AM but did not change the zoning
[12:40] Pip Torok sees that fern has made my point
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Plot A and B for example
[12:40] Fern Leissa: Yes?
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Just seems so confusing and has it ever been that way in existance?
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: meaning in world?
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: I havent actually travelled and counted trees
[12:41] Fern Leissa: I don’t know the history of the builds on AM.. they come and go … as you know and we do not have much docmentation about prior builds
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: true but you can see my point though right
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: The covenents are great, dont get me wrong
[12:42] Fern Leissa: I do see your point and I did think long and hard about going to the NG for rezoning.
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: But they’re not worth anythign if they aren’t enforced
[12:43] Arria Perreault: The difference between A and B: only A can have a castle
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: That is all I have to contribute to the covenent discussion
[12:43] Arria Perreault: I guess it was to avoid to have castles everywhere on the sim
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: thank you for letting my voice my opinion
[12:43] Fern Leissa: But I’m not sure there is enough interest to pursue that at this point and I did now want to delay too much… the rewrite of the covenants as part of the issue was something that we could begin to enforce
[12:44] Lilith Ivory est connecté(e)
[12:44] Trebor Warcliffe: Having less of a population to grandfather in will help
[12:44] Fern Leissa: True
[12:44] Pip Torok: I move that these covenants be accepted
[12:44] Arria Perreault: I think this point and other had reasons in the mind of poeple who have built the sims
[12:45] Arria Perreault: any second?
[12:45] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes and as we grow in sims we will have the same ability to set the sims how we see fit as they come in world
[12:46] Fern Leissa: no second

[12:46] Sonja Strom: I second
[12:46] Fern Leissa:

[12:46] Arria Perreault: good
[12:46] Arria Perreault: we can vote
[12:46] Pip Torok: aye
[12:46] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:46] Sonja Strom: aye
[12:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:47] Pip Torok: congrats Fern!!!!!!!
[12:47] Arria Perreault: The convenants are accepted
[12:47] Fern Leissa:

))
[12:47] Arria Perreault: I would like to thank Fern for her amazing work
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Great job on this Fern thank you for all your hard work.
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Congratulations, Fern!
[12:47] Fern Leissa: But… we must still wait for Rosie’s 7-day n’est pas?
[12:47] Pip Torok: supported fully!
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[12:47] Fern Leissa: Thank you

[12:47] Patroklus Murakami: congrats

[12:47] Pip Torok: it still p[asses imo
[12:48] Arria Perreault: The Executive have to implemente the new text in the sims now
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Sudane, I think it will be your task (or Rudeen’s task)
[12:49] Arria Perreault: Can you inform us when the new text in in each sim?
[12:50] Arria Perreault: next
[12:50] Arria Perreault: next point
[12:50] Sudane Erato: sorry… the new textures?
[12:50] Arria Perreault: no, the new convenant
[12:50] Sudane Erato: oh!
[12:50] Arria Perreault: we have voted the new text of the convenant
[12:50] Pip Torok: doesnt it apply as of now?
[12:51] Sudane Erato: if you wish this all to be in the About Land covenant… then if someobne can just pass a notecard to Rudeen… np
[12:51] Arria Perreault: Fern, can you send the notecard to Rudeen?
[12:51] Fern Leissa: Yes. I will do that right now
[12:51] Arria Perreault: great
[12:51] Sudane Erato: thx

[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: May I suggest in order to keep it simple, have hte general covenents in each SIM and than SIM specific covenants for that particular SIM.
[12:52] Arria Perreault: next point: Tier
[12:52] Pip Torok agrees with Trebor
[12:52] Arria Perreault: Sudane?
[12:53] Sudane Erato: am I to make a presentation?… I don’t really have a statement to make here, other than what I’ve said
[12:53] Sudane Erato: in the forums
[12:53] Trebor Warcliffe: I think that would be Fern’s decision or the RA’s decision
[12:53] Trebor Warcliffe: as far as the posting of the covenents in the About Land tab
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: No reason to read about AM covenants while youre in CN
[12:54] Arria Perreault: it means that Fern prepares a notecard for each sim?
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Sort of yes
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: The general covenents on all 5 notecards
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: And than the specifc covenants for that SIM
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: It should be just a matter of cut and paste
[12:55] notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
[12:55] notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
[12:55] Fern Leissa: Sudane, I think Trebor is suggesting that I reformat the covenant so that I give Rudeen 5 notecards; one for each sim-specific covenant. The General covenant would be included on all 5.
[12:55] Pip Torok: i’d be glad to help out fern with this chore if necessary…
[12:55] Fern Leissa: Should I do that?
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: If we have 20 sims in the future are we going to have all 20 sims covenents on all 20 Abouit Land tabs?
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: I wouldnt think so
[12:56] Arria Perreault: is it ok, Fern?
[12:56] Fern Leissa: Sure. np

[12:56] Sudane Erato: well… i see a problem with that.
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: Why?
[12:56] Arria Perreault: Sudane?
[12:56] Fern Leissa: or not

I defer to Sudane
[12:56] Sudane Erato: at this moment in time, each sim is a different estate, and that would work
[12:56] Sudane Erato: but
[12:57] Sudane Erato: I will strongly advise that in the soon future we make on estate of the CDS
[12:57] Sudane Erato: so that managers don’t have to be appointed for every sim
[12:57] Sudane Erato: and so that other settings can be done estate wide
[12:57] You decline Legion XIII, ROMA Transtiberim (118, 216, 42) from A group member named Tonina Rodenberger.
[12:57] Sudane Erato: as it affects this issue… covenants are estate wide
[12:58] Fern Leissa: So you’re suggesting that we leave the covenant as one notecard. ?
[12:58] Pip Torok would like to see how other estates cope with this problem
[12:58] Sudane Erato: it would have to be if the CDS was one estate
[12:58] Arria Perreault: can we easily decide to make an estate for all CDS or does it have other implications?
[12:59] Fern Leissa: They have one covenant Pip. I have checked that out. Just include subsections if themes are different on different sims
[12:59] Sudane Erato: no other implications, now that NFS is direct TP… which was the one issue previously preventing it
[13:00] Arria Perreault: who can decide that, RA or Chancelor?
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: That is a point that makes us rather unique compared to other estates, we are not locked into one particular theme.
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Our common bond is the democracy not the theme.
[13:00] Sudane Erato: i woulkd think that if any one feels there are issues affecting our experience here, then it should be the RA…
[13:00] Sudane Erato: but really its just a matter of administration
[13:00] Pip Torok agrees with Sudane
[13:00] Fern Leissa: There are others Trebor that have different “twists” to different sims…
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I agree too
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: agree if it affects the community than it needs to be a communty decision
[13:01] Fern Leissa: But … back to the covenant

One card ok?
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Well either way we seem to have the capability of doing it estate wide or per sim
[13:01] Pip Torok:

[13:02] Arria Perreault: I would prefer 5 now
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: For now I still like hte per Sim idea
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: because we do know how long it takes for changes to take place in the CDS
[13:02] Pip Torok: agree … for _now_ …
[13:02] Sudane Erato: if we do it per sim, then we cannot make one estate of the whole CDS
[13:02] Arria Perreault: we are not one estate yet
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: When we become one estate than it can be changed
[13:03] Fern Leissa: We could alwasy consolidate the text Sudane if we move to being one Estate. Right?
[13:03] Arria Perreault: Sudane, if we decide to become one estate, we can update the “About land” with the whole convenant
[13:03] Fern Leissa: Or I should say re-consolidate
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: It will always be updatable
[13:03] Pip Torok: point of information : there is software (like UNIX make) that can handle these variations
[13:04] Trebor Warcliffe: Worse case scenario if the covenants become to cumbersone for the about land tab than we link them to the web portal
[13:04] Sudane Erato: Arria, its not really managed from About Land, even tho it appears there. It’s managed from the Region/estate screen… and yes, it can be changed whenever we like
[13:04] Fern Leissa: No Trebor. I think the “legal” covenant as far as LL is concerned is the “About Land ”
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: ok thank you for that information
[13:06] Arria Perreault: Sudane, can you explane how and when it can be changed?
[13:07] Sudane Erato: the covenan t is placed on a notecard, and then the EO or any EM opens the Region/Estate screen, and drops the notecard into the space for it
[13:07] Sudane Erato: that loads the covernant into all the “About Lands” in the estate
[13:07] Sudane Erato: estate, mind you… not the sim
[13:08] Sudane Erato: you can do that as often as you like
[13:08] Arria Perreault: yes, but now we have 5 estates. we can have specific notecards for each
[13:08] Sudane Erato: yes we can..
[13:09] Arria Perreault: if we become an estate, we can make one notecard with the whole convenant that will erase the former ones?
[13:09] Sudane Erato: yes
[13:09] Troy Kronfeld est déconnecté(e)
[13:10] Arria Perreault: it means that now we can still have specific convenant for each sims/estate
[13:10] Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I think that the RA prefers this possibility now
[13:11] Arria Perreault: right?
[13:11] Pip Torok agrees
[13:12] Fern Leissa: good for me :0
[13:12] Arria Perreault: I agree too
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Sonja?
[13:12] Sonja Strom: yes, I agree
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Fern, do you prepare 5 different notecards for Rudeen?
[13:13] Fern Leissa: I will prepare 5 different ones for Rudeen after the meeting

[13:13] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[13:13] Arria Perreault: now we can move to the next point: Tier
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Yup
[13:13] Arria Perreault: Trebor you have the floor
[13:13] Malchior Negulesco est connecté(e)
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8zbEv … ist&num=50
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: For those of you who havent had the chance to look at my report it is uploaded to Google Docs.
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Im going to keep this real simple.
[13:14] Arria Perreault: you explain to us your ideas about the tier in a way that I can understand (tier for dummies)
[13:14] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok
[13:14] Sonja Strom: hehee
[13:14] Arria Perreault: then we will have a discussion
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: There were two main objectives with this project.
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: One was to have a uniform tier across the 5 sims.
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: The other was to have double prim land be exactly double the amount of a single prim parcel.
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: Does that make sense so far?
[13:15] Pip Torok: yes
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: The results are almost perfect.
[13:16] Sudane Erato: hehe
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: The single prim lands are NFS and CN correct?
[13:16] Fern Leissa: Sorry Trebor… but wasn’t one of your main objectives to see if you could reduce tier?
[13:16] Malchior Negulesco est déconnecté(e)
[13:17] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes sorry Fern that was the MAIN objective
[13:17] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok back
[13:18] Thinkerer Melville est connecté(e)
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: The single prim sims of NFS and CN have one uniform tier rate (in my proposal)
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Currently with our higher tier rates that are individualized from sim to sim our rate of occupancy is 63%.
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: I have calculted two tier rates
[13:19] Abbey Zenith est déconnecté(e)
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: One at 75% occupancy adn the other at 80%.
[13:20] Trebor Warcliffe: For NFS and CN the rate is $3.49USD per 512sqm.
[13:20] Trebor Warcliffe: This was the easiest way I could translate it with hte 512sqm used as the base.
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: In AM and LA, both double prim sims
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: The rate is $6.98USD per 512sqm.
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Exactly double the rate.
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Those figures are for 75% occupancy.
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: At 81% the rates are $3.25 and 6.50 respectively.
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Monestary
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: due to the way it is set up will not fall under either one of these formulas
[13:23] Arria Perreault: I see that prizes are even growing there ;-)

[13:23] Arria Perreault: prices*
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: I set monestary at $5.06 and $4.94 for 75% and 81%.
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: This covers our cost to LL plus a little extra when Mon is fully occupied.
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: IN THE FUTURE
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Any new SIMS will not be these rates due to the cost we currently pay LL.
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: For all future sims we have to CAREFULLY plan the amount of public land to private land
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: In order to cover our expenses and have an affordable SIM
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: But we are not here to discuss the future
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Only to discuss our current tier.
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Any questions?
[13:26] Pip Torok: as far as i’m concerned, youve covered all bases, Trebor
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: TU
[13:26] Fern Leissa: I agree with Pip
[13:27] Trebor Warcliffe: Now remember
[13:27] Trebor Warcliffe: We are not proposing a reduction in tier just to reduce tier
[13:27] Trebor Warcliffe: We want to do this as one step in the process of making the CDS a more popular place than it already is.
[13:28] Trebor Warcliffe: I understand Pip is in charge of marketing and promotions and i look forward to wqorking with him in this matter.
[13:28] Pip Torok wd value that purely as a marketing point 9dare i say “ploy”)
[13:29] Trebor Warcliffe: The decision to be made is which rate of tier are we comfortable at. In my opinion before current times the CDS hasnt been this underpopulated
[13:29] Trebor Warcliffe: So i dont feel dropping tier to 80% is that drastic
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: If and when it is passed the next step would be implementation
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: Ideally, in my opinion if we as a community decide to bring Hippo in world than that would be the time to do it.
[13:30] Pip Torok: I agree so long as this situation is CONSTANTLY under review (remembers the ECB and the Greek tragedy)
[13:31] Anna Toussaint est connecté(e)
[13:31] Trebor Warcliffe: It is my understanding that there is quite a buit of work needed to bring Hippo inworld so any volunteers would be greatly appreciated if we do bring it online.
[13:31] Trebor Warcliffe: I know Sudane, Anna, and Tor worked hard to set up the “beta” version so to speak
[13:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Pip
[13:32] Trebor Warcliffe: the review is basically done monthly by reading the Treasures Reports
[13:32] Pip Torok understands
[13:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Even with out low occupancy we still have our heads above water.
[13:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes initially we may have a few months where we’re not putting money in the reserves
[13:33] Trebor Warcliffe: But in the long run I think it will work itself out
[13:33] Pip Torok wd be prepared to drop the tier on that basis
[13:33] EdDereDdE Laval est connecté(e)
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Is there anything else anyone wants me to cover?
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Im sorry Pip I dont quite underastanf
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: understand
[13:34] Pip Torok: i meant reduce the tier to 81%
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: And you agree it’s not the only thing that needs to be done to help the CDS correct?
[13:35] Pip Torok: i do
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: Great we’re on the same page than.
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: Any questions?
[13:35] Arria Perreault: I ave a question
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[13:36] Pip Torok: i move we reduce the tier in line with trebors recommendation
[13:36] Arria Perreault: The discussion is not finished, Pip ㋡
[13:36] Pip Torok: (sorry will hold that move pro tem)
[13:36] Trebor Warcliffe: thanks for the enthusiasm though LOL
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Your question Arria?
[13:37] Arria Perreault: we have special rates for some of our sims
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: you mean currently?
[13:37] Arria Perreault: for example, Mon is 95 US$ instead 125
[13:37] Arria Perreault: grandfathered tier
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: all of that was figured out quite extensively in my report
[13:37] Arria Perreault: CN and NFS are less expensive
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: That is why it was such a monumental task
[13:38] Arria Perreault: the rate between public and private are also different
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: It was all explained in my report.
[13:38] Arria Perreault: why not to have an average prim proce for all CDS?
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Yup htey are
[13:38] Arria Perreault: price*
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Another very difficult calculation
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Its impossible
[13:38] Arria Perreault: I have started with this some years ago
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: heres why
[13:39] Bells Semyorka est connecté(e)
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: My very first set of calculations did that
[13:39] Pip Torok realises “average” is a really loaded term …
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: the results
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: EXACTLY PIP
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Land management was done on a sim by sim basis with all five sims done independantly
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: MAYBE when we reach a higher amount of SIMS say 40 or 50 you MIGHT be able to do an average for all but currently no way
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: My results
[13:40] Sudane Erato: sorry… i must leave… good luck

[13:40] Arria Perreault: you take the amount of prims on private land and you divide LL tier with this amount
[13:40] Sonja Strom: bye Sudane!
[13:40] Pip Torok: bye Sudane .. thx for being here!
[13:40] Arria Perreault: Bye Sudane ㋡
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria I am not trying to be rude here but have you read my report?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: then you calcuulate the price of each parcel
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: I did htat
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: it didnt work
[13:41] Arria Perreault: why?
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: increase in tier for NFS
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Hold on let me pull that spreadsheet out of my files
[13:42] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[13:42] Arria Perreault: why is it a problem to increase tier for NFS?
[13:42] Trebor Warcliffe: But I do ask again have you actually read my report?
[13:42] Arria Perreault: Patroklus
[13:42] Pip Torok knows an adequate answer for Arria wd require a complete grounding in the basis of statistics
[13:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Because the GOAL was to reduce tier for EVERYONE
[13:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Im sorry go ahead Pat
[13:42] Arria Perreault: I have read quickly, but I think you have to give us easy answers
[13:42] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question for trebor: at current rates of occupancy, would we will still cover tier every month if we adopted your proposal?
[13:44] Trebor Warcliffe: You’re asking that with our current population in place right now, if we reduce the tier to the 81% occupancy rate would we still cover our costs to LL?
[13:44] Abbey Zenith est connecté(e)
[13:44] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[13:44] Trebor Warcliffe: The answer would be no but I can’t honestly tell you how short we would be.
[13:44] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont think it would be a drastic amount
[13:44] Arria Perreault: I have an other question
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: I say that because if you look at the financial statements for this year we are still making a profit
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Arria
[13:45] Patroklus Murakami: seems like a question you would need to know the exact answer to before making this decision
[13:45] Arria Perreault: if you goal is to reduce the tier for everyone, why the price of land in Monastery will increase?
[13:45] You decline http://streams.slowradio.com/mp3, Windy Shores (178, 156, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: The price of land in Monestary DECREASED
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: Let me explain.
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Current tier to CDS for MON is
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: US$139.16
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: if fully rented
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: at my proposed rates the new tier would be
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: $124.32 and
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: $121.40
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: that is a decrease not an increase
[13:47] Pip Torok remembers Einstein’s off-the-cuff remark “make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler” …
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: KISS
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt est connecté(e)
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Keep It Simple Stupid
[13:48] Trebor Warcliffe: And Pat I’m not sure but if you read the posts in the New Tier Propsoal thread I think
[13:48] Trebor Warcliffe: I might have addressed the current population question tehre
[13:48] Trebor Warcliffe: This is hte first time in i think 5 days Ive been in front of a computer and i felt lucky to make the meeting
[13:49] Trebor Warcliffe: Its rather difficult to give you an EXACT answer on that because I dont have access to all of the CDS owned property that may or may not be up for sale
[13:49] Trebor Warcliffe: If I have that info than it is rather simple to calculate
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: I already have NEW master parcel lists for both set of tiers
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Ready to be uploaded to the portal
[13:50] Arria Perreault: can you paste the link in the forum?
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: For my new MPL?
[13:51] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: Give me one day and it will be done if not by tonight.
[13:51] Fern Leissa: Can I just jump in here and add that under NL 4-6 Financial Reserves Act we are required to keep 1 months tier in USD in reserve. My understanding is that we are SO way beyond that, I believe the last figure I heard was reserves of USD$ 14,000.00 that I believe the risk is small to CDS even if we experience some shortpterm loss
[13:51] Arria Perreault: no problem
[13:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Fern I agree
[13:52] Pip Torok agrees and notes that that is a useful reminder
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats why I propose multiple ways of getting the CDS back to its prominence it once enjoyed.
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Tier reduction
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Embassies (2 or 3)
[13:53] Fern Leissa: I believe I heard that even if we continue with our present low occumancy rate we could exist on the grid for another 8 to 14 years
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: More SL participation like hte SL8
[13:53] Fern Leissa: Either Sudane or Trebor gave that figure
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: I did
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: its simple arithmetics
[13:54] Arria Perreault: Embassies: we have paid a lot of money in the past for presence in Caledon and I don’t think it brought many people to us
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Even if we had NO RESIDENCE your reserves are paying your tier for the next 13 months
[13:54] Fern Leissa: To me the bigger risk is now that we will fade away as a community if we do not proactively recruit new (active) members
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: We’re getting WAY off topic though
[13:54] Arria Perreault: right
[13:54] EdDereDdE Laval est déconnecté(e)
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: There is not ONE solution to our problem
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe: it will have to be multitasked
[13:55] Pip Torok: exactly
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe: back to your queestion
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe: My very first set of calculations
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe: I tried to take all of the privately held land that the CDS collects tier on
[13:56] Trebor Warcliffe: and figure out a rate of tier that would be the same across the board
[13:56] Trebor Warcliffe: The problem is two-fold
[13:56] Trebor Warcliffe: Not all SIMS cost us the same
[13:56] Trebor Warcliffe: And not al sims are single prim or double prim
[13:57] Trebor Warcliffe: The results were a big increase in tier on two sims, a drastic drop in tier on MON and a slight decrease in tier for the other 2
[13:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Total savings was only 3%
[13:57] Trebor Warcliffe: And tier WAS NOT reduced across the board
[13:57] Mathoni Zuhrah est déconnecté(e)
[13:58] Arria Perreault: right now, Alpine Meadow residents are paying too much
[13:58] Arria Perreault: we are a community
[13:58] Trebor Warcliffe: I credit Sudane for pointing me in the direction of making a double prim parcel cost double the amount of a single prim parcel
[13:58] Arria Perreault: we all benefit from public space, where it is
[13:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes currently here are our incomes for each sim if they were fully rented
[13:58] Pip Torok: (ie a useful exercise to remember that it produced no useful results…

[13:58] Popea Heron est déconnecté(e)
[13:58] Arria Perreault: everyone can use the Amphitheater for example
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker slips out to LA quietly waving…
[13:59] Super’s AO 4.0: Touched.
[13:59] Super’s AO 4.0: Touched.
[13:59] Super’s AO 4.0: Touched.
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye!
[13:59] Arria Perreault: By Guillaume ㋡
[13:59] Pip Torok quietly waves back at guillaume …)
[14:00] Popea Heron est connecté(e)
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: NFS 259.70 CN 371.68 AM 510.90 LA 416.67 MON 139.16
[14:00] pixivor Allen est connecté(e)
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Do you see how out of whack that is???
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Our cost to LL for these are 195, 195, 295, 295, 95
[14:01] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[14:01] Arria Perreault: Patroklus?
[14:02] Patroklus Murakami: i can see the rationale for more uniform tier rates (taking account of double v single prim) but i wonder about occupancy
[14:02] Patroklus Murakami: we need to pay tier each month, that is a given
[14:02] Trebor Warcliffe: yes
[14:02] Trebor Warcliffe: $1095.00 USD
[14:02] Patroklus Murakami: and we should plan to do so without dipping into the reserves
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: overall yes
[14:03] Patroklus Murakami: if we plan on the basis of 80% occupancy but only have 65% we would be making a loss
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: and as is obvious by the amount of reserves this has been accomplished for many years quite profitably
[14:03] You decline The Quay from A group member named Anna Toussaint.
[14:03] Patroklus Murakami: i’d be happy to see my rent go down each month but we need to be responsible
[14:03] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all

[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Exactly
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: we need to increase our population
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: this is but one part of a bigger plan
[14:04] Pip Torok: (which is where marketing comes in:)
[14:04] Arria Perreault: I am not sure theat the price is the only reason to choose a land
[14:04] Bagheera Kristan est déconnecté(e)
[14:04] Trebor Warcliffe: It isnt
[14:04] Arria Perreault: we offer much more than a land in CDS
[14:04] Trebor Warcliffe: THATS MY POINT
[14:04] Trebor Warcliffe: What are we? We are a democracy!!!
[14:04] Trebor Warcliffe: That is our backbone!!!
[14:05] Arria Perreault: I would prefer more transparency about the prices for example
[14:05] Trebor Warcliffe: thats our reason for being in SL (our meaning the CDS)
[14:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Wouldnt we truly be more of a democracy with 500 citizens instead of 70 citizens
[14:05] Arria Perreault: and also some equality: every citizen should benefit from the grandfathered LL tiers
[14:06] Pip Torok: true trebor but lets make it 100 to start with!
[14:06] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria my new tier rates for the original 5 sims wouldnt change as we expand
[14:06] Arria Perreault: Trebor, with the group-owned land system, we can have more than 1000 citizen with very cheap tiers
[14:06] Trebor Warcliffe: The new SIMS wouldnt have the same rate
[14:06] Fern Leissa: I think that tier in line with similar communities, updated sim “infrastructure”, regular events related to our theme of democracy, and just fun/social/constructive things for our citizens to do together is what we are after. There is no one fix
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: YESSSS FERN thats all apart of it
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: and dare i say EXPANSION
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: but before we can even THINK about expansion
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: we have to get all of our ducks in a row
[14:08] Lilith Ivory est déconnecté(e)
[14:08] Trebor Warcliffe: I have to be going real soon.
[14:08] Fern Leissa: Starting with revising our tier so that it is in line with other similar communities. And you Trebor have provided us w/ data that indicates we are a little high
[14:08] Trebor Warcliffe: yes thank you
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we stop the discussion here
[14:08] Trebor Warcliffe: I encourage all to read my report I did try to keep it as simple as possible
[14:08] Trebor Warcliffe: Agreed
[14:08] Trebor Warcliffe: I will be more than happy to post more on the forums
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: when ican
[14:09] Arria Perreault: Trebor will provide a link to this proposal of masterplan
[14:09] Guillaume Mistwalker est déconnecté(e)
[14:09] Pip Torok: do you wish me to remake that motion Mme LRA?
[14:09] Arria Perreault: which motion?
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: What exactly do you want me to post Arria?
[14:09] Lilith Ivory est connecté(e)
[14:09] Arria Perreault: you said you have calculate a new masterplan ready to be published in the portal
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: My new Master Parcel List with the 80% tier rates so you can see what the rates would be for each individual parcel?
[14:10] Arria Perreault: yes
[14:10] Pip Torok: to accept the reduction of tier in accordance with trebors recommendation
[14:10] Trebor Warcliffe: ok than we are on the same page
[14:10] Trebor Warcliffe: yes I will post that
[14:10] Arria Perreault: Pip, you did not get a second, or?
[14:10] Pip Torok: no because it was premature
[14:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Pat i havvent had the pleasure of meeting you in person I know you have a long history with the CDS I thank you for being here today and I look forward to seeing you inworld more often.
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker est connecté(e)
[14:11] Arria Perreault: I think we should table this discussion to a next meeting now
[14:11] Arria Perreault: we will make sure that Trebor can attend the meeting
[14:11] Patroklus Murakami: likewise trebor

[14:11] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[14:11] Pip Torok sees that as the best option
[14:12] Trebor Warcliffe: I should be available next sunday same time if thats ok
[14:12] Arria Perreault: good
[14:12] Trebor Warcliffe: right now my sundays are free but i dont know for how long
[14:12] Pip Torok: yes please trebor!
[14:12] Arria Perreault: we can table the discussion to the meeting of 17th July
[14:13] Trebor Warcliffe: The C.D.S. don’t just live in a community be a part of the community!!!
[14:13] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[14:13] Trebor Warcliffe: I bid you all farewell.
[14:13] Pip Torok: bye!
[14:13] Arria Perreault: Anyway thank you, Trebor, for your hard work
[14:13] Trebor Warcliffe est déconnecté(e)
[14:13] Fern Leissa: Bye Trebor

[14:13] Arria Perreault: bye trebor
[14:14] You decline http://streams.slowradio.com/mp3, Windy Shores (178, 156, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[14:14] Arria Perreault: I think we don’t have time to take the next point
[14:14] Pip Torok: agree!
[14:14] Pip Torok: move to adjourn
[14:14] Sonja Strom: second
[14:14] Arria Perreault: let me give you some information first
[14:15] Arria Perreault: then we vote to adjourn ㋡
[14:15] Pip Torok: ok!
[14:15] Arria Perreault: (I note there is a second

)
[14:15] Sonja Strom: :-)

[14:15] Arria Perreault: I have posted a draft for the Order of Anzere
[14:15] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3490
[14:16] Arria Perreault: you can post your feedbacks there
[14:16] Arria Perreault: Rosie agrees to make a medal
[14:16] Fern Leissa: sure

[14:16] Pip Torok: good…
[14:16] Sonja Strom: great! :-)

[14:17] Arria Perreault: About the reports of RA members, we can make them on the next meeting. Rosie said that she accepts to be responsible for the Sims upgrade
[14:17] Pip Torok: marvellous!
[14:17] Arria Perreault: now we can voteto adjourn ㋡
[14:17] Fern Leissa: Indeed :0
[14:17] Pip Torok: aye
[14:17] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:18] Arria Perreault: we are adjourned ㋡
[14:18] Pip Torok: (puts on his dancing-shoes for Noma Falta …

[14:18] Arria Perreault: thank you for the constructive meeting
[14:18] Sonja Strom: thanks everyone!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 17 July 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. Concerns of Citizens

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. Tier: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3491

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)
a. Order to honor citizen: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3490
b. NFS Church
c. NL 4-18 City Building Redundancy Act: to be amended
http://portal.slcds.info/?qa_faqs=nl-4-18-city-building-redundancy-act
d. Process for replacement of public buildings
Possible model: http://portal.slcds.info/?qa_faqs=nl-8-2-in-theme-expansion-act

Proposal of Pip Torok: “Rosie’s Kirche straightway be put in place of the present edifice. Then, after no more than one calendar month from the transfer, a referendum to be held to approve the transfer. If it (the referendum) falls, then the present edifice resumes its place, otherwise the Kirche remains”

V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
– Tier: Fern
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

Transcript

[12:03] Arria Perreault: We have quorum. we can start. I hope that Sonja will join us
[12:03] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:03] Rosie Gray: got it
[12:04] Arria Perreault: we can start with the admin part
[12:05] Draxtor Despres est connecté(e)
[12:05] Arria Perreault: a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[12:05] Timo Gufler est connecté(e)
[12:05] Arria Perreault: do you agree with the agenda?
[12:06] Fern Leissa: yes
[12:06] Rosie Gray: yes
[12:07] Arria Perreault: good
[12:07] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:07] Arria Perreault: I did not get any request
[12:07] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Will be speaking on behalf of the tier discussion.
[12:07] Arria Perreault: I guess the two persons in the attendance will talk ㋡
[12:08] Fern Leissa:

[12:08] Arria Perreault: Tor, do you have announcements or informations?
[12:08] Sonja Strom est connecté(e)
[12:08] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: um, not really unless you want to introduce the kirche issue here
[12:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[12:09] Rosie Gray: it’s already on the agenda
[12:09] Arria Perreault: the Kirch is in the agenda
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Then no
[12:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Citizen concern here
[12:09] Arria Perreault: we are on point : II. Concerns of Citizens
[12:09] Arria Perreault: do you have some concerns?
[12:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
[12:10] Arria Perreault: Trebor, you have the floor
[12:10] Trebor Warcliffe: I would like to see if we can put on the agenda for the next meeting the issue of bringing Hippo in world completly.
[12:10] Trebor Warcliffe: I think a posting in the forums to open up discussion amonsgst the citizens would be a good idea.
[12:11] Trebor Warcliffe: If and when it is approved
[12:11] Fern Leissa chuchote : Hi Sonja
[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Sonja
[12:11] Rosie Gray: hi Sonja
[12:11] Trebor Warcliffe: I know of at least 3 citizens who will help get it up adn running.
[12:11] Sonja Strom: Hi everyone

[12:11] Pip Torok: hi Sonie
[12:11] Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja ㋡
[12:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats all, I’m done…. for now hehe
[12:12] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:12] Pip Torok: Trebor, do you think the work of installing Hippo is dragging?
[12:12] Arria Perreault: good idea, Trebor. It would be good to see the consequences for our political system, especially for the vote and election rights.
[12:12] Trebor Warcliffe: No Pip it hasnt been approved yet therefore no work on it can take place
[12:12] Trebor Warcliffe: all we currently have is basically a test being performed on one SIM
[12:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Id like to see it be used estate wide
[12:12] Trebor Warcliffe: And for that we need to put it to a vote
[12:13] Arria Perreault: maybe we have to make new legislation or update some laws. It would be good to analyse this point
[12:13] Pip Torok: I had thought that this wd go through “on the nod” but we can approve by all means
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: I may be wrong but I was under the assumption it needed to be approved by the RA.
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: And I belive Sudane feels that way also though I make no attempt to speak for her.
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I think it has to be approved by the RA, as we have probably to adapt some legislation
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont think there would be a need to approve legislation
[12:14] Pip Torok: well if there is nothing to be discussed I propose that we do it ASAP at this meeting
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: It is simply a new way for the CDS to collect tier
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Shouldnt require legislation.
[12:14] Arria Perreault: ith this system, it is possible to rent a plot for one month and go
[12:15] Trebor Warcliffe: You can rent up to 6 months in advance I believe
[12:15] Arria Perreault: we have to analyse this point before to implemente this system
[12:15] Pip Torok: i move that the Hippo system be formally adopted as the new means of collecting CDS revenue
[12:15] Rosie Gray: I second Pip’s motion
[12:15] Trebor Warcliffe: You can also incorporate the 3.5% transaction fee LL charges CDS into each parcels tier collection
[12:15] Arria Perreault: Pip, this point was not in the agenda
[12:15] Arria Perreault: we cannot vote on it today
[12:16] Pip Torok: (sorry Mme LRA )
[12:16] Rosie Gray: why not?
[12:16] Arria Perreault: I am ready to take this point with an anyalysis of our code of law
[12:16] Trebor Warcliffe: I. ADMIN
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes (5 min)
[12:16] Arria Perreault: we did approve the agenda already
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I take this point for the next meeting
[12:17] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I am not ready to approve something without knowing
[12:17] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: Trebor, I want you come with a list of any possible consequences on our code of law
[12:17] Trebor Warcliffe: Always need to do our due diligence dont we.
[12:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria with all due respect I am not a lawyer.
[12:18] Arria Perreault: especially regarding the right of vote or election
[12:18] Arria Perreault: you can ask someone to help you
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.
[12:18] Arria Perreault: if not, we will ask the SC
[12:18] You decline Home of Coney Island & On The Ro, Southfield (148, 90, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[12:18] You decline Legion XIII, ROMA Transtiberim (117, 230, 42) from A group member named Maali Beck.
[12:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Possible consequences on our code of law in regards to what???
[12:19] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:19] Lilith Ivory est connecté(e)
[12:19] Thinkerer Melville est déconnecté(e)
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Although it is true hippo is used mainly for renting, people will still have to buy the land. Hippo will only be collecting monthly tier.
[12:19] Arria Perreault: the Hippo system makes possible to have a land for one month and to go. I want to know how the SC can make its census with the Hippo system
[12:20] Trebor Warcliffe: How is the census made now?
[12:20] Rosie Gray: yes it only collects the funds
[12:20] Rosie Gray: doesn’t change anything
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Actually Arria Hippo will make it more possible for greater tranaspancy.
[12:20] Arria Perreault: ask the SC. I have no idea. I think they ask Sudane
[12:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes much more transparency
[12:20] Rosie Gray: there has been much discussion already on the forum
[12:20] Rosie Gray: do we have to do it all again?
[12:20] Fern Leissa: Hi Lilith
[12:20] Arria Perreault: Tor, then you publish all this information on the forum until next meeting
[12:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Rosie!!
[12:21] Pip Torok: I suggest we get the source to the Hippo documentation
[12:21] Rosie Gray: hello Lilith
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: sure, what I can. As rosie mentions the issue was discussed.
[12:21] Pip Torok: hi lilith!
[12:21] Arria Perreault: I want that citizen are informed, and also RA members
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: I think where we are now, is to find out if LA residents have found it as good or better
[12:21] Rosie Gray: it’s all there for anyone who is interested
[12:21] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I personally like it.
[12:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Many of us have done research on our own. The issue has been addressed in the forums. Have you had the opportunity to review hte forum postings Arria?
[12:22] Arria Perreault: Pip, the documentation of Hippo system is not enough in my point of view. We have to know how it works with our current system
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: My only concern is that rolling it out to the estate will be a lot of work, esp for NFS.
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: I think many of your questions could be answered there adn actually reading hte Hippo handbook that is available on their website
[12:23] Rosie Gray: Arria, it has been discussed quite extensively
[12:23] Arria Perreault: make a summary then
[12:23] Rosie Gray: have you read the forum thread about it?
[12:23] Pip Torok: myppint as well mme LRA with the doc we can assess what facilities it has
[12:23] Arria Perreault: not only the advantages, but the consequences on our processes
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: How it works HOW in our current system? I’m sorry but you’re not making any sense.
[12:23] Sonja Strom est déconnecté(e)
[12:24] Rosie Gray: Arria, please have you read the forum thread?
[12:24] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[12:24] Trebor Warcliffe: It will make Sudane’s job or whoever is going to take care of it A LOT EASIER
[12:24] Trebor Warcliffe: to manage
[12:24] Arria Perreault: and I had this question in mind: how can we produce the list of citizen
[12:24] Pip Torok: well the documentation will tell us the capabilities of the Hippo system .. then we can propose features that it already has
[12:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Ask Sudane how many hours a month she spends on these tasks.
[12:25] Rosie Gray: it will not make any difference to the list of citizens
[12:25] Arria Perreault: we have seen this week how quick actions work
[12:25] Rosie Gray: it only collects money
[12:25] Arria Perreault: …
[12:25] Arria Perreault: so we can take the time to see how it work with our processes and what will be the changes for our citizen
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: In fact people may be more inclined to pay ahead and avoid losing citizenship.
[12:25] Trebor Warcliffe: So the issue of Hippo will be on next weeks agenda and the RA will have the ability to vote for or agaisnt its implementation?
[12:25] Arria Perreault: do you have already a concept to communicate this
[12:26] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[12:26] Sonja Strom est connecté(e)
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: wb sonja
[12:26] Fern Leissa chuchote : wb Sonja
[12:26] Arria Perreault: Trebor, we will take this point of course. we want a summary, some information and I am sure you can provide this easely
[12:26] Sonja Strom waves
[12:27] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria with all due respect most of this has already been provided.
[12:27] Arria Perreault: including a summary (Hippo system in CDS for dummies)?
[12:27] Arria Perreault: a FAQ?
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:

[12:28] Arria Perreault: the whole thread is long to read
[12:28] Trebor Warcliffe: Why is it the job of one person to do all the work for everyone
[12:28] Rosie Gray: just read the documentation, it is easy to understand
[12:28] Pip Torok: do you the URL for it Rosie?
[12:28] Trebor Warcliffe: Well Im sorry but if you want to be informed sometimes you have to do a little work in order to be informed
[12:28] Rosie Gray: let me find it
[12:28] Arria Perreault: do I have to understand that you refuse to do that?
[12:28] Fern Leissa: I don’t think it would hurt to again summarize the advantages/disadvantages of hippo and announce that it will be brought to a vote at the next RA meeting. That gives all citizens another chance to comment
[12:28] Arria Perreault: a simple FAQ
[12:29] Rosie Gray: http://www.hippo-technologies.co.uk/resources/
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure he exec can provide a summer of pros and cons.
[12:29] Pip Torok: thanks Rosie
[12:29] Arria Perreault: thank you, Tor
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: summery
[12:29] Arria Perreault: other concern?
[12:30] Rosie Gray: http://www.hippo-technologies.co.uk/pro … /index.php
[12:30] Rosie Gray: more specifically
[12:30] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria I am a citizen of the CDS I am not a member of the goverment. I volunteer MANY hours to topics in CDS that concern me and others. Please dont make it sound like an order for me to do something when you need assistance from someone.
[12:30] Arria Perreault: Tor has accepted to provide a summary, Trebor
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Tor I will be more than happy to help you with that if you need it, just ask.
[12:31] Arria Perreault: now we can move to the next point:
[12:31] Arria Perreault: a. Tier
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Hey I’m up again!!!
[12:32] Alexia Carnell est connecté(e)
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Thank you Trebor, for publishing your Masterplan in the forum
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: You’re welcome
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: I’m assuming that the RA is ready to vote on this issue?
[12:32] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3491
[12:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Considering the months it has been in discussion.
[12:33] Arria Perreault: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8zbEv … ist&num=50
[12:33] Draxtor Despres est déconnecté(e)
[12:33] Arria Perreault: do you want to add a comment, Trebor?
[12:34] Trebor Warcliffe: I think its pretty self explanatory
[12:34] Trebor Warcliffe: May I question the RA memebers individually?
[12:34] Arria Perreault: the RA will discuss this now
[12:35] Arria Perreault: Who wants the floor?
[12:35] Trebor Warcliffe: May I question the RA members individually?
[12:35] Fern Leissa: I can start if that’s ok?
[12:35] Arria Perreault: yes, Fern
[12:35] Fern Leissa: Ty Madame LRA

[12:36] Fern Leissa: I have read all of Trebor’s extensive data and text re the tier reduction
[12:36] Fern Leissa: I am quite comfortable with adopting his recommendations
[12:36] Fern Leissa: If there are many who would prefer that tier be calculated by prims… I could support
[12:37] Fern Leissa: But I absolutely think we must reduce tier… as one step in the process of bringing new citizens
[12:37] Fern Leissa: I do agree that events and music etc. are extremely impt
[12:37] Fern Leissa: But we need more pp to make these things happen
[12:37] Fern Leissa: Anna and Tor are working very hard to bring us entertainment
[12:38] Fern Leissa: Rosie has agreed to take over responsibility for the NG
[12:38] Fern Leissa: But we need more pp if we are really to move forward… and I think tier reduction is one piece to try
[12:38] Fern Leissa: done
[12:38] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:38] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:38] Arria Perreault: someone else?
[12:39] Arria Perreault: if not, I will give my opinion too
[12:39] Rosie Gray: I just raised my hand
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie raised her hand
[12:39] Arria Perreault: sorry
[12:39] Arria Perreault: Rosie, you have the floor
[12:39] Rosie Gray: I’d like to say that I agreee 100% with what Fern has said
[12:39] Rosie Gray: and
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[12:40] Rosie Gray: that we need to move on with this
[12:40] Rosie Gray: done
[12:40] Pip Torok: (hear hear)
[12:41] Arria Perreault: thank you, Rosie
[12:41] Arria Perreault: Pip, do you wan to speak?
[12:41] Arria Perreault: want*
[12:41] Arria Perreault: or Sonja?
[12:41] Pip Torok: no i’d only repeat the last 2 speakers
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[12:41] Fern Leissa: wb Tor
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I will give you my opinion
[12:42] You decline Legion XIII, ROMA Transtiberim (117, 230, 42) from A group member named Maali Beck.
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I have published it already in the forum
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I am against this tier reduction for several reasons
[12:42] Imotali Antiesse est déconnecté(e)
[12:43] Arria Perreault: first: I don’t think that people renounce to come here because of the tier
[12:44] Arria Perreault: second: we have the Group owned Land Bill wich allows us to increase the number of citizen
[12:44] Arria Perreault: all owner can share a land with a group and bring new people in our community for few money (250 L$)
[12:45] Arria Perreault: for this reason, we don’t need this tier reduction to increase the number of citizen
[12:45] Mathoni Zuhrah est déconnecté(e)
[12:45] Arria Perreault: finally to bring people here, there are other possibilities
[12:46] Arria Perreault: I have mentionned the program that Jamie has made when he was Chancellor: poeple could rent plots to open a shop in very good conditions for several months
[12:46] Pip Torok raises hand
[12:46] Arria Perreault: I have also mentionned this project of sandbox
[12:46] Arria Perreault: (I am not yet finished, Pip)
[12:47] Arria Perreault: we can finance these projects with our reserve
[12:47] Arria Perreault: it would be a terrible mistake to use our reserve to fill the hole of our finances
[12:48] Arria Perreault: it would be intelligent to use it to make programs in order to make our community attractive for poeple with projects which need land
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Finally
[12:48] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we can just approve a tier
[12:48] Arria Perreault: we need a mechanism to avoid problems
[12:49] Arria Perreault: for example: tier are increased after 6 months in red numbers. Until now we did not get any text, any bill accompanying this proposal of tier reduction
[12:49] Arria Perreault: I am done for now
[12:49] Arria Perreault: Pip, you have the floor
[12:49] You decline Archery Range ROMA Transtiberim (126, 232, 403) from A group member named Maali Beck.
[12:50] You decline Sweet Whispers ~ Magnolia Design, Sweet Whisper (184, 236, 21) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[12:51] Arria Perreault: Pip?
[12:51] Pip Torok: two points … all of us 3 see tier eduction as simply ONE factor in the drive to attract new ppl … second … we wd be looking INTENTLY on the effect on our reserves … and we cd reverse this if necessary
[12:51] Pip Torok: done
[12:51] Rosie Gray: I motion that we adopt Trebor’s tier reduction to 80% occupancy rate master plan as posted on the forum.
[12:51] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:51] Arria Perreault: the discussion is not finsihed
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: I have nothing else to discuss Arria, thank you.
[12:52] Arria Perreault: we need a text
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: ???
[12:52] Rosie Gray: I have just made the motion, and it has been seconded
[12:52] Arria Perreault: In this case, we can discuss the motion
[12:53] Arria Perreault: Pip, can you give us the text you want we vote
[12:53] Rosie Gray sighs
[12:53] Pip Torok: yes
[12:53] Trebor Warcliffe: What is there to discuss? A motion is made and now you call for a vote, correct?
[12:53] Arria Perreault: I have an amendament
[12:53] Rosie Gray: can we have a vote please, on the motion
[12:53] Arria Perreault: we can amend the the text
[12:53] Arria Perreault: I want the text first
[12:53] Trebor Warcliffe: amend what text??
[12:54] Rosie Gray: I call the question
[12:54] Arria Perreault: the text of the motion
[12:54] Rosie Gray: I have made the motion
[12:54] Rosie Gray: I call the question, now
[12:54] Pip Torok: I move that we adopt Trebors tier reduction to 80% occupancy rate master plan as posted on the Forum
[12:54] Arria Perreault: I have an amendament
[12:54] Rosie Gray: we need to vote first
[12:55] Arria Perreault: we vote to discuss the motion, not to accept it
[12:55] Rosie Gray: no, we vfote to accept the motion
[12:55] Rosie Gray: it has been seconded
[12:55] Rosie Gray: I call the question… again
[12:55] Arria Perreault: I have a proposal to amend it
[12:56] Ingeborg Apfelbaum est déconnecté(e)
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: If you had a proposal to amend than it should have been addressed in your repsonce in the discussion as a suggestion
[12:56] Arria Perreault: I want to add “for 6 months”. Then the RA has to approve it again
[12:56] Arria Perreault: I have said that
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: You didnt address any changes you addressed that you didnt like it period.
[12:56] Rosie Gray agrees with Trebor
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I think RA has the right to adjust the tier at anytime.
[12:57] Arria Perreault: [12:48] Arria Perreault: we need a mechanism to avoid problems
[12:49] Arria Perreault: for example: tier are increased after 6 months in red numbers. Until now we did not get any text, any bill accompanying this proposal of tier reduction
[12:57] Pip Torok agrees with Tor
[12:57] Rosie Gray: please call the vote on the motion as it stands
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: We dont need an amendment to address tier increase or reduction
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: If there is a concern than it is brought to the RA’s attention
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Just as it has been done here
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Regarding the risk we take, we should approve it again in 6 months
[12:58] Rosie Gray: that is your opinion Arria
[12:58] Rosie Gray: please call the vote on the motion as it stands
[12:58] Rosie Gray: how many times must the question be called?
[12:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Well than if 6 months down the road you feel it needs to be addressed than you can brign it to the attention to the RA
[12:58] Arria Perreault: we really don’t need this tier reduction to increase thenumber of citizen
[12:58] Rosie Gray: again, that is your opinion
[12:58] Rosie Gray: call the question
[12:58] Trebor Warcliffe: There’s no reason to make it part of the proposal
[12:59] Fern Leissa: I think we need to vote on the motion
[12:59] Pip Torok: we do
[12:59] Arria Perreault: I will call the vote, but I tell you now tthat I will observe every month the financial report and see what we loose
[12:59] Trebor Warcliffe: It is no different than any other issue in the CDS if we feel it needs to be addressed than it is brought up to the attention of the RA
[12:59] Rosie Gray: exactly Trebor
[12:59] You decline Archery Range ROMA Transtiberim (126, 232, 403) from A group member named Maali Beck.
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: And to address your concern Arria
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes there may be a few months where we will dip into the reserves
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I will, don’t worry
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I think you just want to empty the reserve
[13:00] Pip Torok: ??
[13:00] Arria Perreault: that’s exactly what will happen
[13:00] Rosie Gray: I call the question… again
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: As you have pointed out yourself this is just one aspect of bringing the CDS back to prominence.
[13:00] Arria Perreault: with your proposal
[13:01] Rosie Gray: are you going to continue to talk?
[13:01] Fern Leissa: I do not want to empty the reserve Arria. I want to bring us new citizens. I am very worried
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we will get so many more citizen to fill the gap
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: I am done thank you for the floor
[13:01] Arria Perreault: you will empty this reserve and make our community in danger
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria
[13:01] Fern Leissa: Our community is in danger. It is dying
[13:01] Arria Perreault: and we have other ways to get other citizen
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: How long will that take?
[13:02] Rosie Gray: Arria… vote now please or I will have to commit suicide
[13:02] Fern Leissa: no no… Rosie

[13:02] Arria Perreault: read the Citizen Bill first
[13:02] Arria Perreault: we have voted it in the 13th RA
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: How long will it take for my proposal to empty the CDS coffers?
[13:02] Arria Perreault: it allows us to have more than 1000 citizen
[13:02] Rosie Gray: CALL THE QUESTION!!!
[13:03] Arria Perreault: it will take 2-3 years maybe
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: CALL THE QUESTION
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: No sorry
[13:03] Arria Perreault: but we cannot use this money for other intelligent projects
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: It will take over 8 YEARS at our current occupancey rate
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: We are required to have two months tier in the reserve, btw.
[13:03] Rosie Gray: area are you going to totally ignore the rules a democratic meeting?
[13:03] Arria Perreault: and if we lose citizen?
[13:04] Arria Perreault: (Rosie, I know that I have to call this vote)
[13:04] Pip Torok: its my job to see that we do not, mme LRA
[13:04] Rosie Gray: then do it
[13:04] Abbey Zenith est connecté(e)
[13:04] Lizzo Dreamscape est déconnecté(e)
[13:04] Arria Perreault: I think we should have more time for the discussion
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: This has been in discussion FOR MONTHS
[13:05] Fern Leissa: A motion has been made and seconded
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: That is why the CDS never moves ahead with anything
[13:05] Rosie Gray: Arria.. that is YOUR OPINION. PLEASE RESPECT THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS
[13:05] Lizzo Dreamscape est connecté(e)
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I will, Rosie, don’t worry
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Even going back to last term when I first started this undertaking
[13:05] Rosie Gray: must we listen to you forever before we get to vote?
[13:06] Trebor Warcliffe: As Im sure youre aware of if you’ve been reading my reports and forum postings.
[13:06] Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
[13:06] Pip Torok clearly recognises heel-dragging when it occurs
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I call the vote now
[13:07] Lizzo Dreamscape est déconnecté(e)
[13:07] Rosie Gray: thank you
[13:07] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[13:07] Pip Torok: aye
[13:07] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:07] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:07] Arria Perreault: Sonja ㋡
[13:07] Sonja Strom: So far as I understand it this community – the CDS – is still doing well financially, and better than most communities in Second Life.
[13:08] Sonja Strom: I believe it would be good to reduce the tier levels, mostly because of current slowness in the SL and RL economies. Naturally as Representatives we want to do what is best for the citizens of the CDS on an individual basis and for the CDS in general. I believe at this time doing what is best includes reducing the tier costs.
[13:08] Sonja Strom: At the same time I also believe this proposal alters too much too radically, and its exact text has not been designed with enough collaboration in the community for me to personally vote its current wording into law.
[13:08] Lizzo Dreamscape est connecté(e)
[13:08] Sonja Strom: On the motion made I vote “nay.”
[13:08] Arria Perreault: the motion has carried
[13:08] Fern Leissa:

))
[13:08] Rosie Gray: yay!
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Please inform our treasurer to do what has to be done
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: I will get together with her at her earliest convenice
[13:09] Pip Torok: well the lesson to learn imo is financial vigilance
[13:09] Arria Perreault: Personnally I will observe the financial reports and publish every month an indicator
[13:09] Fern Leissa: That would be helpful Arria

[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: The exec will take this as a challenge and advertise it and encourage people to check out CDS.
[13:10] Lizzo Dreamscape est déconnecté(e)
[13:10] Arria Perreault: to show ctizen and RA members how much money we are loosing
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: This is but one part in our campaign to bring the CDS back in the limelight.
[13:10] Lizzo Dreamscape est connecté(e)
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Next on the agenda???
[13:11] Arria Perreault: Trebor, I am the LRA, not you
[13:11] Arria Perreault: you come here with some arrogance
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: I was just asking a question
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I got your point, now we woit results for your policy
[13:11] Arria Perreault: the answer is in the agenda or in the forum
[13:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria I have never personally attacked you and I ask that you dont personally attack me, thank you.
[13:12] Lizzo Dreamscape est déconnecté(e)
[13:12] Arria Perreault: this is a RA meeting, Trebor, not a political meeting in the Biergarten
[13:12] Rosie Gray: can we move on?
[13:13] Lizzo Dreamscape est connecté(e)
[13:13] Arria Perreault: We can take our new items
[13:13] Arria Perreault: a. Order to honor citizen
[13:14] Arria Perreault: We have proposed to creater an order to honor citizen
[13:14] Thinkerer Melville est connecté(e)
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I have made a text that is in the forums
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: It is my understanding this was brought to the table as a way to honor Moon, am I correct?
[13:14] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:15] Arria Perreault: Order of Anzere Act

Draft

1. An order is establish in order to honor CDS citizen for their contributions to the community. Its name is “Order of Anzere”. Its form is a medal.

2. The following actions are seen as special contribution: building, organization of events or any other attraction, contribution to the history or to the documentation of the the community.

3. Only benevolent contributions can be taken in consideration. It is not possible to get the Order of Anzere for a work made as civil servant.

4. The RA decides the attribution of the order to one or several citizen.

5. The ceremony of the attribution of the Order of Anzere is held during the Oktoberfest. The Chancellor has to organize it. A member of the RA makes a laudatio of each recipient of the Order of Anzere.

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Arria Perreault
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[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: that is right, but probably others in future.
[13:15] You decline Sweet Whispers ~ Magnolia Design, Sweet Whisper (184, 236, 21) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[13:15] Arria Perreault: The RA can discuss the text, then the public
[13:15] Arria Perreault: who want the floor?
[13:15] Rosie Gray: I just raised my hand
[13:15] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:15] Arria Perreault: Rosie, then Pip
[13:16] Rosie Gray: I like this idea very much
[13:16] Pip Torok: 2 drafting amendments both in 5 …
[13:16] Rosie Gray: I thnk there could be a bit of rewording to it is all… maybe Pip is addressing that
[13:16] Pip Torok: 1) propose “The Chancellor will organise it”
[13:16] Rosie Gray: done
[13:16] Rosie Gray: lol
[13:17] Arria Perreault: thank you, Rosie
[13:17] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:17] Pip Torok: 2) another word for laudatio …. (dont know which yet)
[13:17] Pip Torok: done
[13:17] Arria Perreault: a speech?
[13:17] Sonja Strom: I like the proposal – it’s a very good one.
[13:18] Pip Torok agrees with Sonja
[13:18] Pip Torok: yes … “speech”
[13:18] Troy Kronfeld est connecté(e)
[13:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:19] Satir DeCuir est déconnecté(e)
[13:19] Rosie Gray: and The Chancellor ‘will’ organize it
[13:19] Arria Perreault: Here is the amended text:
[13:19] Arria Perreault: 1. An order is establish in order to honor CDS citizen for their contributions to the community. Its name is “Order of Anzere”. Its form is a medal.

2. The following actions are seen as special contribution: building, organization of events or any other attraction, contribution to the history or to the documentation of the the community.

3. Only benevolent contributions can be taken in consideration. It is not possible to get the Order of Anzere for a work made as civil servant.

4. The RA decides the attribution of the order to one or several citizen.

5. The ceremony of the attribution of the Order of Anzere is held during the Oktoberfest. The Chancellor will organise it. A member of the RA makes a speech about each recipient of the Order of Anzere.
[13:20] Arria Perreault: other comments?
[13:20] Rosie Gray: looks good
[13:20] Fern Leissa: yes nice
[13:20] Arria Perreault: can we vote it?
[13:20] Pip Torok: please lets vote it
[13:20] Arria Perreault: a second?
[13:21] Fern Leissa: I second
[13:21] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:21] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:21] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:21] Pip Torok: aye
[13:21] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:21] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:22] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[13:22] Carmen Roeth est connecté(e)
[13:22] Arria Perreault: Rosie has volunteered to create a medal
[13:22] Fern Leissa:
[13:22] Arria Perreault: thank you very much
[13:23] Sonja Strom: yay Rosie!
[13:23] Rosie Gray: my pleasure
[13:23] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:23] Arria Perreault: now we need a list of recipients or at least a recipient for the next Oktoberfest
[13:24] Pip Torok: I propose Moon Adamant
[13:24] Arria Perreault: a second?
[13:24] Rosie Gray: I second
[13:24] Fern Leissa: I second
[13:24] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:24] Rosie Gray: aya
[13:24] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:24] Pip Torok: aye
[13:24] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Is there a limit on how many people can be nominated and is there a certain time that nominations need to be made?
[13:25] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:25] Pip Torok: we can always nominate at future meetings trebor
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[13:25] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:25] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Question
[13:25] Arria Perreault: Moon Adamant will be the first recipient of the Order of Anzere for her action in the New Guild
[13:26] Arria Perreault: Tor?
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I was wondering if the RA could have someone fashion a medal
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I appoligize if you have discussed this already.
[13:26] Rosie Gray: I am doing that Tor
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:26] Pip Torok: (its been done, Tor!:)
[13:26] Rosie Gray: may I ask a question though?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: then sorry
[13:27] Arria Perreault: Tor, can you add the ceremony in the program of Oktoberfest
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I had been lost in an im
[13:27] Arria Perreault: ?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:27] Arria Perreault: Rosie, ask your question
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps at the ball
[13:27] Rosie Gray: for a little bit of text on the medal
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: or maybe a sparate ceremony.
[13:28] Rosie Gray: can we have some suggestion from Madame LRA as to what it might be?
[13:28] Rosie Gray: perhaps in latin?
[13:28] Pip Torok: in moons case that wd be very appropriate
[13:28] Arria Perreault: I have to make some search. I will propose something for the next meeting. We need a moto..
[13:29] Rosie Gray: okay thank you
[13:29] Pip Torok: “Si monumentum requiris, circumpice” ….?
[13:29] EdDereDdE Laval est connecté(e)
[13:29] Pip Torok: 9sorry .. messpelt)
[13:29] Fern Leissa: ???
[13:29] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS needs a motto
[13:29] Carmen Roeth est déconnecté(e)
[13:29] Pip Torok: if you need a monument, just look around….
[13:30] Arria Perreault: I will also inform Moon personnally
[13:31] Arria Perreault: one of us has to prepare a speech ㋡
[13:31] Fern Leissa:
[13:31] Rosie Gray: yes excellent idea
[13:31] Pip Torok: i wd propose Sudane …
[13:31] Arria Perreault: it must be a RA member
[13:32] Arria Perreault: (it’s in the text we have voted)
[13:32] Rosie Gray: I think Sudane might be a recipient sometime
[13:32] Arria Perreault: of course it’s possible to get some help
[13:32] Pip Torok: ok … i volunteer and hope i get help!
[13:32] Fern Leissa: Perhaps then a couple of us could meet with Sudane for help in preparing content for the speech. I assume Pip you suggested Sudane because she knows her well?
[13:32] Arria Perreault: thank you, Pip
[13:33] Arria Perreault: yes, do it please
[13:33] Fern Leissa: I will help Pip. Be glad to. Just do not know Moon very well
[13:33] Pip Torok: yes … and because she has seen moons work at first hand
[13:34] Arria Perreault: Rosie, many people can be recipient. That’s why I am so glad that we have voted this bill.
[13:34] Arria Perreault: RA members are free to propose other people at any time ㋡
[13:35] Arria Perreault: can we move to the next point?

[13:35] Arria Perreault: b. NFS Church
[13:36] Arria Perreault: a sad story
[13:36] Arria Perreault: Rosie can you inform the RA first
[13:36] Pip Torok: mme LRA may i amend my proposal in the light of events…
[13:36] Arria Perreault: we have also a text from Pip, that we can vote or mend
[13:36] Rosie Gray: well I think everyone knows what happened
[13:36] Arria Perreault: amend*
[13:37] Arria Perreault: ok Pip. I suggest we hear Rosie first to have the latest informations
[13:37] Rosie Gray: one moment then, please
[13:37] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:38] Rosie Gray: I have some news for everyone, and some of you I know will be upset by it.

Today I met with BladeDancer Pendragon, in world and on the telephone, so that I could help him link together his church for our archiving request. He tried to give me permissions on his objects, but that did not work for some reason.

I was going to explain to him how to link his objects together (none of the prims of the church were linked), but he just started deleting them. He did this very quickly at the same time as explaining to me that he had a huge unsorted inventory that he couldn’t find things in. At any rate, it was done in a matter of a few minutes. He seemed to have no sentimental attachment to the building at all, but we had a nice chat about the German WWII veterans plaque. He told me he’d try to find that in the next few days so it could be added to the new building.
[13:38] Rosie Gray: his deletion was certainly not my intention, as I fully wanted to comply with the expectation of archiving the church, and I did not ask him to do this. I just want to make that clear so that nobody thinks that I sabotaged it.

I’ve contacted everyone by notecard who has existing prims that added to the old church, to ask them to be taken up. After that is done I will bring the new church down and set it into place where I can finish the crypt and a few little details. Then I’ll package it all up and give a copy to the archivist with full permissions.

Rosie

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Rosie Gray
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[13:38] Rosie Gray: oops
[13:38] Rosie Gray: copied from my posting on the forum
[13:38] Sonja Strom: hehe
[13:39] Rosie Gray: done
[13:40] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: /raises hand.
[13:40] Arria Perreault: are you done, Rosie?
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.
[13:40] Rosie Gray: yes, done
[13:40] Sonja Strom: I received a personal email from BladeDancer explaining this also… and his version of what happened is very similar.
[13:40] Arria Perreault: Pip , then Tor
[13:41] Pip Torok: I propose we accept with alacrity rosies proposal and hope it is dopne with all despatch .
[13:41] Arria Perreault: I have an amendment to your proposal
[13:42] Arria Perreault: I think we should gave the possibility to people to propose changes to the building of Rosie
[13:43] Job Fiertze est connecté(e)
[13:43] Job Fiertze est déconnecté(e)
[13:43] Arria Perreault: for example, I have some trouble with the roof of the tower that is typically baroccco style
[13:43] Pip Torok: with respect i believe that ppl have already had quite enough time to propose those changes … and therefore repeat the hope that it is done with all despatch
[13:43] Rosie Gray: it is an exact duplicate of a RL Bavarian church
[13:43] Rosie Gray: I can show you the picture if you want
[13:44] Arria Perreault: yes, but from the baroccoa time ㋡
[13:44] Arria Perreault: you have also modern church in Bavaria
[13:44] Pip Torok: thats right Arria .. compatible with NFS
[13:44] Rosie Gray: it’s not a modern one
[13:45] Arria Perreault: not, but barocco time comes after middle age
[13:45] You decline http://streams.slowradio.com/mp3, Windy Shores (178, 156, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: MoCA
[13:45] Pip Torok: yes .. but it would work for a medieval city imo
[13:45] Arria Perreault: yes, and many people have critics for this building
[13:46] Arria Perreault: anyway, I think you have to rezz your building quickly
[13:46] Arria Perreault: it would just be nice to let the possibility open to make changes
[13:46] Pip Torok: but many ppl have NO criticism … and i believe they are in the majority
[13:46] Pip Torok: but they have had the possibility…
[13:47] Arria Perreault: I know
[13:47] Sonja Strom raises hand
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: on moment
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: one
[13:47] Sonja Strom *raises hand*
[13:47] Arria Perreault: in the same time, we were about the make a refenrendum about the model of church. it’s a bit different
[13:47] Arria Perreault: Sonja
[13:48] Sonja Strom: Would it be possible for changes to be made to this new old church after it is in place in the town?
[13:48] Sonja Strom: Thanks.
[13:48] Rosie Gray: depends on what the changes are Sonja
[13:49] Pip Torok: imo any change shd be made with a CLEAR majority of citizens behind it
[13:49] Trebor Warcliffe: agreed
[13:49] Arria Perreault: thta’s why I ask for a period where pople can still make proposal
[13:49] Arria Perreault: people has loosed the possibility for ever to have the former church, which is a pity
[13:49] Pip Torok: but with respect they have HAD that time and chance
[13:49] Rosie Gray: I’d like to point out that it’s not completely finished, as it needs to be in place to finish off the crypt part
[13:49] Arria Perreault: we have to offer an alternative
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe this has been another topic for discussion that has already been in existance for quite some time
[13:50] Arria Perreault: Pip, the question is different now
[13:50] Pip Torok: why, Mme LRA?
[13:50] Pip Torok: i mean in the present circumstances why do we have to offer an alternative?
[13:50] Arria Perreault: in the past, people have made proposal or not witht the idea to have the choice between two churches
[13:51] Arria Perreault: now there is only one possible church
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe the cholce was to update the church
[13:51] Lilith Ivory raises hand
[13:51] Pip Torok: i agree trebor …
[13:52] Trebor Warcliffe: And discussions on how an updated church would be built was addressed in the forum.
[13:52] Arria Perreault: yes, but we should have decided today for a referendum
[13:52] Arria Perreault: now we offer nothing to citizen
[13:52] Fern Leissa: It is a nice church that Rosie has made for us. I suggest we accept it. If pp are truly unhappy with certain things about the church that could be brough to the NG (=Rosie) for discussion of revision to a design element
[13:52] Pip Torok: i disagree, mme LRA … there is no longer material for a referendum
[13:53] Lilith Ivory raises her hand again
[13:53] Sonja Strom: My question was related to Fern’s las observation.
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: The main point of discussion that i remember from the forums was the placement of the crucifix
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie has that been addressed?
[13:53] Arria Perreault: Rosie, are you ready to listen people adressing proposals to you about the Church in the New Guild?
[13:53] Rosie Gray: yes it has been discussed
[13:53] Timo Gufler est déconnecté(e)
[13:54] Rosie Gray: in the forums… there has been a long thread about it
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Has a decision been made?
[13:54] Arria Perreault: not formal., as far as I know
[13:54] Rosie Gray: yes I think a general agreement has been reached
[13:54] Pip Torok: exactly … and all with an opnion have given their opinion
[13:54] Rosie Gray: not formally though, that’s correct
[13:54] Rosie Gray: but anyone who has cared to has had lots of time to discuss it
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: yes indeed
[13:54] Arria Perreault: only the RA can make a formal decision
[13:55] Abbey Zenith est déconnecté(e)
[13:55] Fern Leissa: I make a motion that we accept Rosie’s church as the new church for NFS Marketplatz
[13:55] Pip Torok: which is now on the floor
[13:55] Arria Perreault: Pip has a motion for us
[13:55] Fern Leissa: woops. Sorry Arria and Pip
[13:55] Pip Torok: ill retrieve my one .. moment
[13:55] Arria Perreault: I have also proposed to amend this motion
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: ya know we might still have time to ask for a rollback
[13:56] Arria Perreault: giving a period to adress changes (it can be managed by the New Guild)
[13:56] Pip Torok: I propose we accept with alacrity rosies proposal and hope it is dopne with all despatch .
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: I wonder why nobody has done this right after this accident happened
[13:56] Sonja Strom: Very good idea Lilith!
[13:56] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:56] Rosie Gray: oh great, then we can have a crappy old build back in place again
[13:56] Pip Torok: .. a second, anyone?
[13:56] Rosie Gray: and start all over
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: than we can decide in a propper way what to do next
[13:57] Arria Perreault: wait Pip
[13:57] Rosie Gray: lol
[13:57] Arria Perreault: I have made an amendment
[13:57] Arria Perreault: and Tor has an information about this rollback
[13:57] Arria Perreault: Tor
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: eys
[13:58] Sonja Strom: Rosie, how I see that is, it would allow us to preserve the former church… that can be completely independent of a decision to replace it.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I was beginning to wonder if we needed it given the sentiment.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: but we have 72 hours to request a rollback.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: We still would have the same permissions issues
[13:59] Arria Perreault: at least it is saved
[13:59] Rosie Gray: no it is not saved though Arria
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: be could take the oportunity to document the old chuch or blade might make another stab at saving a copy.
[13:59] Rosie Gray: unless he is willing to spend the required amount of time to do so
[13:59] Rosie Gray: which he did not seem willing to do
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: He mentioned in an email that merely taking control of his object did not seem to work.
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont think it would be saved? And also arent there pictures of the old church available to use for a rebuild?
[14:00] Rosie Gray: why would you want to rebuild it when it was so badly made in the first place?
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: If a rebuild is the way the citizens want to go?
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Anyway, if we request a rollback, Sudane would hve to do it.
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: I agree Rosie
[14:00] Rosie Gray: and I have many many photos of it
[14:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Here’s my opinion for what its worth.
[14:01] Rosie Gray: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosie_gray … 907782670/
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: we might end up with being in just the same place we are now. We need to keep that in mind.
[14:01] Rosie Gray: you can see most of them here
[14:01] Pip Torok: I propose that we make all despatch for a rollback to retrieve the old church, and at the same time accept with alacrity Rosies proposal to install to new church
[14:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Circumstances has brought us to an unpleasant occurance
[14:01] Trebor Warcliffe: Currently we have no church
[14:02] Trebor Warcliffe: But we do have a replacement church that has been in the works for months and open for discussion for months
[14:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Besides the argument of replacing the old church with a new church (which has been taken care of already)
[14:02] Trebor Warcliffe: The only other hot button topic I remember from the forums
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: was the issue of having an image of Jesus at the altar
[14:03] Pip Torok: is there a second to my proposal?
[14:03] Arria Perreault: until now no
[14:03] Fern Leissa: I second Pip’s proposal
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: I would feel that considering the circumstances it would be in the CDS best interest to approve Rosies build and get it in world.
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: i think that is Pip’s proposal
[14:04] Pip Torok: it is Tor
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: but we with the rollback.
[14:04] Trebor Warcliffe: This will also alllow us another piece of promotional material to use for the CDS.
[14:04] Arria Perreault: I will call the vote as Pip got a second
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I think if blade were careful hie could select it all and save it as a bundle.
[14:04] Pip Torok: aye
[14:04] Rosie Gray: he does not have the skill Tor
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: then maybe work on it elsewhere
[14:04] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:04] Rosie Gray: or the patience
[14:05] Rosie Gray: aye
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: he might be willing to give permission to modify his objects to a person he trusts
[14:05] Rosie Gray: he tried to give it to me already Lilith
[14:05] Rosie Gray: but it didn’t work
[14:05] Pip Torok: Sonja? Arria?
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe that was lag.
[14:05] Rosie Gray: don’t know why
[14:05] Arria Perreault: Sonja, your vote
[14:05] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:05] pixivor Allen est déconnecté(e)
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps if one relogged
[14:05] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: I´d gladly help you and blade as I have some experience with dealing with other peoples prims
[14:06] Pip Torok lets his breath out …
[14:06] Arria Perreault: How many time do you need to rezzyour church
[14:06] Rosie Gray: so do I Lilith
[14:06] Rosie Gray: plenty of experience
[14:06] Lilith Ivory was married to a building newb for years
[14:06] Arria Perreault: Rosie?
[14:06] Rosie Gray: sorry I don’t understand your question Arria
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: all those years and he was always a newb?
[14:06] Arria Perreault: how much time do you need to install your church in NFS?
[14:07] Rosie Gray: oh a couple of hours
[14:07] Rosie Gray: but then it will need to be finished
[14:07] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:07] Rosie Gray: the crypt I mean
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: May I ask a question that sort of pertains to this situation?
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: So I will ask Sudane to request a rollback to Friday 12:00 AM SLT
[14:08] Rosie Gray: aren’t you going to get Blade’s agreement to work on it though Tor?
[14:08] Rosie Gray: or it is all redundant
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: i think so Rosie
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: just one last stab at it
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I just regret that you are not open anymore to proposal of poeple. I suggest that citizen who still want to propose changes come to the new meeting of the New Guild that you will proably call soon
[14:08] Rosie Gray: I will certainly entertain suggestions
[14:09] Arria Perreault: thank you
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Trebor raises hand
[14:09] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes, thank you
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Do we have measures in place to prevent this from happening again?
[14:09] Arria Perreault: it’s th next point
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Also how many other public buildings in CDS arent owned by the CDS
[14:10] Pip Torok: only Sudanes proposal in the Forums
[14:10] Arria Perreault: I have discussed this yesterday with Fern.
[14:10] Arria Perreault: c. NL 4-18 City Building Redundancy Act: to be amended
[14:10] Rosie Gray: I don’t think any of them are, currently
[14:10] Arria Perreault: we have this legislation
[14:11] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=160
[14:11] Arria Perreault: When possible, full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be kept in inventory by the Dean and Gildemeister.
[14:11] Arria Perreault: the text is very short
[14:11] Rosie Gray: yes it seems this wasn’t done
[14:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Are they currently?
[14:12] Arria Perreault: and the “when possible” is the reason why nothing was done
[14:12] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont understand, sorry.
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[14:12] Arria Perreault: we have to amend this bill. it’s only for new buildings of course
[14:12] Arria Perreault: starting for the new church
[14:13] Trebor Warcliffe: That doesnt help this disaster from happening with older builds though?
[14:13] Rosie Gray: no it doesn’t change what is already here
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: We have a CA, but I don’t think she has a lot in her inventory.
[14:13] Arria Perreault: for this, I have put the next point
[14:13] Trebor Warcliffe: What would need to be done to make the “possible” a reality?
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: someof our most important builds seems ot predate the CA
[14:13] Arria Perreault: Trebor, let the RA discuss first, please
[14:14] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we solve the question in the future by changing this bill
[14:14] Trebor Warcliffe: It’s kind of hard to have to wait until the end of a discussion to particiapate and give an opinion
[14:14] Arria Perreault: it’s our rules of proceedings
[14:15] Pip Torok: Trebor could start a thread perhaps?
[14:15] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281
[14:15] Trebor Warcliffe: I apologize I thought that if it wasnt an issue actually being voted on at the time than it was pretty much an open discussion for all those in attendance.
[14:16] Arria Perreault: I want to hear RA member first on this point
[14:16] Rosie Gray raises hand
[14:16] Fern Leissa: Madame LRA may I make a comment on this?
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[14:17] Rosie Gray: oh you go ahead Fern
[14:17] Arria Perreault: yes
[14:17] Fern Leissa: kk. thanks
[14:17] Arria Perreault: (I have a proposal for the text of this bill)
[14:17] You decline http://streams.slowradio.com/mp3, Windy Shores (178, 156, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[14:18] Fern Leissa: I agree we need to modify the text. I would make it mandatory to supply a full perm copy of any public builds
[14:18] Fern Leissa: You may already be going to suggest that
[14:18] Arria Perreault: Full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be kept in inventory by the Content Archivist.
[14:18] Fern Leissa: I’m also wondering if we don’t want to ask for a couple of images of the build as well
[14:18] Arria Perreault: good idea
[14:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[14:19] Arria Perreault: Full perm copies and snapshots of all city owned buildings shall be kept in inventory by the Content Archivist.
[14:19] Fern Leissa: I agree Arria with your text, but I think we should add who is resposible for getting those copies to the CA
[14:19] Fern Leissa: The builder?
[14:19] Rosie Gray: it would have to be the builder
[14:19] Rosie Gray: nobody else can do it
[14:20] Fern Leissa: Right… but I think we should say that specifically.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: ok, Fern
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: b btw
[14:20] Fern Leissa: Or that… the CA is responsible for obtaining full perm copies…
[14:20] Fern Leissa: Done
[14:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[14:21] Arria Perreault: Full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be provided by the builder to the Content Archivist. In addition pictures has to be published in the portal.
[14:21] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[14:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes it is my understanding the CA is an individual person, correct?
[14:21] Trebor Warcliffe: ???
[14:22] Arria Perreault: yes, a civil servant
[14:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok than wouldnt we be in the same situation we have now
[14:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Where only one person has permissions?
[14:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Wouldnt it make sense to have it as a group owned build?
[14:22] Arria Perreault: the copy must be full perm
[14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: it would treb, tell LL
[14:23] Pip Torok: thats where Sudanes forum article comes in
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: didn´t the CA create an Alt to preserve the builds?
[14:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I see
[14:23] Rosie Gray raises hand
[14:23] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[14:23] You decline Transtiberim Path, ROMA Transtiberim (178, 110, 21) from A group member named Maali Beck.
[14:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Even though it belongs to “one person” the full permissions allows it to be transferred to whoever needs to be
[14:23] Rosie Gray: I think we need to include something about respecting the creator’s permission intent
[14:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point Rosie
[14:24] Arria Perreault: what do you propose, Rosie?
[14:24] Rosie Gray: so that it is clear that the full-permission copy is for the CDS intended purpose only, and not to be given or sold otherwise
[14:24] Fern Leissa: Ok. good point
[14:25] Arria Perreault: Full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be provided by the builder to the Content Archivist. The full-permission copy is for the CDS intended purpose only, and not to be given or sold otherwise. In addition pictures have to be published in the portal by the Executive.
[14:25] Rosie Gray: otherwise most people won’t want to give over a full permission copy of their builds
[14:25] Arria Perreault: I agree
[14:25] Rosie Gray: sure that works
[14:25] Fern Leissa: I like this text
[14:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Second question
[14:25] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[14:25] Trebor Warcliffe: May I?
[14:26] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[14:26] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[14:26] Arria Perreault: Trebor first, then Tor
[14:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Is there anything we can do to get the old builds to the CA
[14:26] Trebor Warcliffe: that way we dont have the loss of a build like we just had with the church
[14:26] Arria Perreault: in this text, no. but we have to take action for that, I agree
[14:27] Trebor Warcliffe: I udnerstnad not in this text
[14:27] Trebor Warcliffe: this text is a seperate issue
[14:27] Arria Perreault: yes, for future building
[14:27] Trebor Warcliffe: I just dont want to see other builds of ours just disappear if at all possible
[14:27] Arria Perreault: for example for the church that Rosie will install
[14:28] Arria Perreault: Trebor, I think we have understood your concern
[14:28] Arria Perreault: let us finish this text, please
[14:28] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[14:28] Arria Perreault: we will do somthing for that too
[14:28] Arria Perreault: Tor
[14:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you, M. LRA
[14:28] Tor Karlsvalt: several things on this matter.
[14:28] Tor Karlsvalt: last term I did finally get Alaisi stonebender to create an alt for CA
[14:29] Tor Karlsvalt: She mentioned at the time that she had few builds in her own inventory.
[14:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The name of the alt escapes me but I will take a moment shortly to look for it.
[14:29] Arria Perreault: can we have a list of what she has currently?
[14:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I do note that the law requires the RA to request an inventory.
[14:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, I think that request is in order.
[14:30] Tor Karlsvalt: she has had the alt now some time and should have moved things over to it.
[14:30] Arria Perreault: can you publsih it in the forums?
[14:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I will report it to you
[14:30] Tor Karlsvalt: hopefully be next week and the forums would be ok also.
[14:31] Tor Karlsvalt: I note at the time I spoke to her, it seemed that the important builds were not in her inventory
[14:31] Arria Perreault: good
[14:31] Tor Karlsvalt: The walls for instance.
[14:31] Rosie Gray: Sudane has a copy of the walls
[14:32] Rosie Gray: and some of the other buildings
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I think much of this was in place prior to the CA.
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: well we probably need to put this all where we all can find it.
[14:32] Fern Leissa: yes with the CA alt
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: yes ok done
[14:32] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Tor
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I will look for that convo with Alaisi
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[14:33] Arria Perreault: I think we have to make a campaign to get all public buuildings in the CA alt
[14:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes great idea Arria
[14:33] Rosie Gray agrees
[14:33] Arria Perreault: now I suggest we finish our text (for future buildings)
[14:33] Arria Perreault: The text is:
[14:34] Arria Perreault: Full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be provided by the builder to the Content Archivist. The full-permission copy is for the CDS intended purpose only, and not to be given or sold otherwise. In addition pictures have to be published in the portal by the Executive.
[14:34] Arria Perreault: can we move to vote this text?
[14:34] Fern Leissa: Yes
[14:35] Arria Perreault: a second?
[14:35] Pip Torok: yes
[14:35] Sonja Strom: I second.
[14:35] Pip Torok: seconded
[14:35] Arria Perreault: vote:
[14:35] Rosie Gray: aye
[14:35] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:35] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:35] Pip Torok: aye
[14:35] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:35] Arria Perreault: good work ㋡
[14:35] Fern Leissa:
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: back
[14:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I kept the convo in a word doc. lucky me
[14:36] Arria Perreault: As I said and to address Trebor’s concern, we really have to start a campaign to get copies for the most important buildings of CDS (public buildings)
[14:36] Tor Karlsvalt: The CA is CDSArchive
[14:36] Arria Perreault: the first step will be the list published by Tor or Aliasi
[14:36] Sonja Strom: interesting name…
[14:36] Arria Perreault: and a call to builder
[14:37] Fern Leissa: Is this something we could assign to Aliasi, Arria?
[14:37] Tor Karlsvalt:
[14:37] Fern Leissa: A survey of all public buildings and there current status re perms and copy w/ CA?
[14:37] Arria Perreault: it would help, yes
[14:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Actually I think the law stipulates that the RA can request an inventory.
[14:38] Tor Karlsvalt: i assume that can merely come from the LRA
[14:38] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:38] Tor Karlsvalt: she has requested it.
[14:38] Tor Karlsvalt: The CA is really under the SC.
[14:38] Arria Perreault: I think it’s the first step
[14:38] Tor Karlsvalt: all way complicated.
[14:39] Arria Perreault: I will ask the CA (with copy to Delia)
[14:39] Fern Leissa: that is strange… seems like CA should be under the Exec
[14:39] Rosie Gray: pardon… but I need to leave shortly
[14:39] Fern Leissa chuchote : Topic for another day
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: well it is sort of Fern but not.
[14:39] Arria Perreault: the we can make a call to builders to encourag them to give their buildings
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: appt by the SC, I make sure she has an agreement signed.
[14:40] Arria Perreault: I think we will adjourn now
[14:40] Fern Leissa: ok
[14:40] Pip Torok: ok!
[14:40] Sonja Strom *raises hand*
[14:40] Tor Karlsvalt: hizzah!
[14:40] Arria Perreault: I think we have made many important decisions today
[14:40] Arria Perreault: Sonja?
[14:40] Sonja Strom: I want to make it clear I am happy for public participation in meetings of the Representative Assembly.
[14:40] Sonja Strom: With regard to the Rules of Procedure for public participation in the meetings, they can be found in the CDS portal at http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281
[14:40] Fern Leissa:
[14:41] Sonja Strom: Under item “4. Public proceedings”
[14:41] Sonja Strom: it says:
[14:41] Sonja Strom: “All meetings of the RA will be public, and all citizens of CDS are welcome to attend and participate. During the meeting, any citizen can talk in any point of the agenda after having asked the LRA. ”
[14:41] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[14:42] Arria Perreault: Thank you Sonja ㋡
[14:42] Arria Perreault: Can I have a motion to adjourn?
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah thanks sonja
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: didn’t even know we had this.
[14:42] Sonja Strom: I move we adjourn.
[14:42] Fern Leissa: I second
[14:42] Arria Perreault: vote
[14:42] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:42] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:42] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:42] Rosie Gray: aye
[14:43] Arria Perreault: we are adjourned
[14:43] Rosie Gray: ttfn
[14:43] Arria Perreault: thank you for the meeting

Summary

The RA has decided:

– to adopt a new tier system: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8zbEv … ist&num=50
The RA can modify this system at any time.

– to accept the building of Rosie Gray in replacement of the Old Church. A rollback of the Old Church will be requested by Linden Lab. The persons who have changes to propose to this new church can address their proposal to the Secretary of the New Guild, Rosie Gray.

– to create the Order of Anzere to honor citizen

1. An order is establish in order to honor CDS citizen for their contributions to the community. Its name is “Order of Anzere”. Its form is a medal.
2. The following actions are seen as special contribution: building, organization of events or any other attraction, contribution to the history or to the documentation of the the community.
3. Only benevolent contributions can be taken in consideration. It is not possible to get the Order of Anzere for a work made as civil servant.
4. The RA decides the attribution of the order to one or several citizen.
5. The ceremony of the attribution of the Order of Anzere is held during the Oktoberfest. The Chancellor will organise it. A member of the RA makes a speech about each recipient of the Order of Anzere.

Rosie Gray has volunteered to create a medal.

The RA has decided to attribute this order to Moon Adamant. Pip Torok has volunteered to make the speech at the ceremony during Oktoberfest.

– to amend the City Building Redundancy Act (NL 4-18)

“Full perm copies of all city owned buildings shall be provided by the builder to the Content Archivist. The full-permission copy is for the CDS intended purpose only, and not to be given or sold otherwise. In addition pictures have to be published in the portal by the Executive.”

– to request an inventar of the public buildings by the Content Archivist.

The RA sees the issue of the loss of the Old Church as an important one. It has modified the law so any builder of a public building has to give a full-perm copy. It wants also make something for the already existing buildings, in order to avoid to loss them for ever. The LRA will request an inventar of the buildings that are in the inventary of the Content Archivist. The RA will also make a call to builders to encourage them to give their build to the Content Archivist.

Item for future meetings

The RA will adress the question of the introduction of the Hippo system in the 5 CDS sims. A summary of avantages and disavantages will be published by the Chancellor before the RA address this point.

Letter to Moon Adamant

Dear Moon,

the RA has created the Order of Anzere to honor citizen who have made an important contribution to the community. In its meeting on the 17th Juli 2011, the RA has decided to attribute this Order to you for your important contribution to the CDS community as Secretary of the New Guild. The ceremony will be held during the Oktoberfest.
Kind regards

Arria Perreault, LRA

Copy to :

Tor Karlsvad, Chancellor
Pip Torok, RA member

Letter to Aliasi Stonebender, Content Archivist

Dear Aliasi,

As you may know, we lost the Old Church in Neufreistadt. We will ask a rollback by Linden Lab. The question of the rights will not be solved. The RA wants now to address the issue of the archiving of the public building. To start this, we ned an inventary. We would like to know which buildings are in the inventary of the Content Archivist.
Can you publish the content of the inventary of the Content Archivist on the forums until the next RA meeting (24th July) ?
For your information, the RA has amended on its meeting on 17th July 2011 the City Building Redundancy Act (NL 4-18)

Thank you in advance for your work

Kind regards

Arria Perreault, LRA

Copies:

Tor Kalrsvalt, Chancellor
Delia Lake, Dean of the SC

Permalink.

RA Meeting 31 July 2011

RA AGENDA 31th JULY 2011, 12:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM

Here is the agenda of the next meeting of the RA. There is a request for a ruling about the validity of all votes made since the election of Rosie Gray as Secretary of the Guild. The SC will inform me when a decision is made. The transcript of the SC meeting should be published. I have also asked Rosie to choose between the two positions. Until now I did not receive an information about her definitive decision. It is not easy to have an RA meeting in these conditions, as all votes we can make can be potentially invalidated by the SC.

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Dates of meetings in summertime

II. INFORMATIONS

a. Request for a ruling to the SC
b. inventar of the public buildings by the Content Archivist

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
–

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)
a. Referendum for the Kirche: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3500&p=17816#p17816
b. CDS asset security issues: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486
c. Hippo System (Hippo System for Dummies is still missing) (20 min)

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

Transcript

[12:09] Arria Perreault: we can start the meeting
[12:09] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:10] Arria Perreault: Admin part
[12:10] Arria Perreault: do you agree with the agenda?
[12:11] Rosie Gray: aye
[12:11] Pip Torok: with one proviso mme … that both “rival” referendum question-sets are fuly discussed …
[12:11] Trowzer Boa est déconnecté(e)
[12:11] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip, of course
[12:11] Pip Torok:

[12:12] Arria Perreault: it’s open
[12:12] Arria Perreault: as I said, what I wrote is a proposal
[12:12] Arria Perreault: we have 20 min and we can vote to add time
[12:12] Arria Perreault: can we go with this agenda?
[12:12] Pip Torok: aye
[12:13] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:13] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:13] Sonja Strom est connecté(e)
[12:13] Arria Perreault: Fern has requested a 7 day vote
[12:13] You decline << Pok’Ta Pok >> “Juego de Pel, Blue Savannah (35, 94, 23) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: sonja is online
[12:13] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:13] Pip Torok: hooray!
[12:14] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:14] Rosie Gray: I would like to speak please
[12:14] Arria Perreault: wo wants to speak today? (citizen)
[12:14] Pip Torok: i wish to speak on IVa
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[12:14] Arria Perreault: Pip.I ask only citizen. RA memebers can speak
[12:14] Pip Torok: (sorry!)
[12:15] Arria Perreault: Tor
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes thanks
[12:15] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I have an announcemnt of interest
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: As some of you already know there is a change in the leadership of Al Andalus. Rose Springvale has tendered her resignation as the Sultana of Al Andalus.
[12:16] Rosie Gray: hi Sonja
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: At this moment, I believe the VDI board, the non profit that owns Al Andalus has not made its decision on accepting her resignation. However, Rose has announced it to the citizens of Al Andalus.

The exec hopes that we can work with the leadership of Al Andalus in a neighborly and constructive fashion. However, I wish to make clear that the exec does not favor or will not work toward the purchase of any of the Al Andalusian sims.
[12:16] Pip Torok: hi Sonja
[12:16] Sonja Strom: hi everyone!
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I speak for everyone in CDS and wich Rose and the citizens of AA the best.
[12:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hear hear!
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Ms. LRA
[12:17] Sonja Strom: Sorry I am late – I have no good excuse, the time just got away from me.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: thank you for this information, Tor
[12:17] Sonja Strom: Sorry to have interrupted you as well, Tor.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja. we are still on admin
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: no problem Sonja
[12:17] Arria Perreault: Tor, do you see points to discuss in a further RA meeting?
[12:18] Arria Perreault: I mean about AA
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[12:18] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:18] Arria Perreault: d. Dates of meetings in summertime
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Fern wanted to speak of the rythm of RA meetings in summertime
[12:19] Arria Perreault: she is not there today
[12:19] Arria Perreault: do you want to speak about that? do you want to change something?
[12:20] Rosie Gray: probably we should wait to hear from Fern
[12:20] Pip Torok: I suggest the 5 of us get together and wrk out out what we can manage
[12:20] Rosie Gray: that’s a good suggestion Pip
[12:20] Arria Perreault: ok. we wait for Fern
[12:21] Arria Perreault: I ahve added a point Information in the Agenda. I have 2 informations
[12:21] Arria Perreault: a. Request for a ruling to the SC
[12:21] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:22] Arria Perreault: I want to inform, Rosie
[12:22] Ulysse Alexandre est déconnecté(e)
[12:23] Arria Perreault: as you know, I have made a request to the SC aboutt he current situation in the RA
[12:23] Arria Perreault: my request is publsihed in the forum
[12:24] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3496#p17815
[12:24] Arria Perreault: Delia has answered me that she will contact the other SC members
[12:24] Arria Perreault: I don’t know how much time we have to wait
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I want to add the following point:
[12:26] Arria Perreault: As LRA, I should have seen the problem since the beginning, when Rosie was elected or even candidate.
[12:26] Arria Perreault: of course, I knew the existence of the Charter of the New Guild, but I did not have all articles in mind
[12:26] Arria Perreault: I want to apologize for that.
[12:27] Arria Perreault: Rosie has also announced to me that she will make a statement today
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I hope that the question can be solved quickly
[12:28] Arria Perreault: I don’t want to block the situation. If I have made a request to the SC, it’s because I have not the answer
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami est déconnecté(e)
[12:29] Arria Perreault: my main concern is to make sure that all what we vote here is valid and cannot be contested later
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami est connecté(e)
[12:29] Arria Perreault: b. inventar of the public buildings by the Content Archivist
[12:29] Pip Torok: before we move on i believe Rosie has a statement to make
[12:30] Arria Perreault: Pip, we agreed that she will speak under Citizen concerns or RA members concerns
[12:31] Pip Torok: ah … as long as her statement is made and minuted …
[12:31] Arria Perreault: one sentence to say that the content of the invntary of the Content Archivist is published in the forum
[12:31] Ulysse Alexandre est connecté(e)
[12:31] Arria Perreault: it is very short
[12:32] Rosie Gray: that’s okay with me Arria
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I will give the link later
[12:32] Arria Perreault: or in the summary
[12:32] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)
[12:33] Arria Perreault: Rosei, do you want to speak under this point?
[12:33] Arria Perreault: Rosie*
[12:33] Rosie Gray: yes please
[12:33] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[12:33] Rosie Gray: thank you
[12:33] Rosie Gray: Citizens of the C.D.S., members of the R.A., and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Scientific Council, whom I specifically address this to:
[12:33] Rosie Gray: I wish to make a statement at this time, concerning my participation in the C.D.S.
[12:33] Rosie Gray: I will say “done”, when I am finished.
[12:33] Rosie Gray: Please bear with me.
[12:34] Rosie Gray: Our Leader of the R.A., Arria Perreault, has said that since I have been elected as Secretary of the New Guild, I am in violation of its charter stating that a member of the R.A. cannot hold that position.
[12:34] Rosie Gray: She has asked me to choose whether to stay as a member of the R.A., or as the Secretary of the N.G.
[12:34] Rosie Gray: Since accepting the nomination and election to the N.G., I have spent a lot of time discussing its function and history with the outgoing Secretary, Moon Adamant, and various other people. I have also read all of the forums and the other documentations that I can find about it, to better understand its role within the C.D.S. community.
[12:34] Rosie Gray: My acceptance of the Secretary position for the N.G. was in good faith, and I had no intentions of undermining the RA, or NG functions in any way.
[12:35] Rosie Gray: I have not, in fact, actually done anything in this position yet, other than to create a document with input from any citizen that wished to contribute, about what they would like to see done with the CDS sims to upgrade and improve them.
[12:35] Rosie Gray: I do not know why it has taken a month for Arria to decide that she should bring up the point of the NG charter. It seems disingenuous of her to be suddenly concerned about this, when she was not initially.
[12:35] Rosie Gray: It was Arria that suggested that I be in charge of sims upgrade, as a member of the RA.
[12:36] Rosie Gray: I, as are all of you, a volunteer. I do so with a clear conscience and with only the intentions of helping this community grow.
[12:36] Rosie Gray: The CDS badly needs new citizens, new volunteers, and I am afraid that it will dwindle and fade away unless we gain some.
[12:36] Timo Gufler est connecté(e)
[12:36] Rosie Gray: Arria has asked the S.C. to make a ruling about the validity of the votes made during the 3 RA meetings that I have attended since my election as the N.G. secretary. I think that my votes should be held up, for these reasons:
[12:36] Rosie Gray: Firstly, I acted in good faith, and on behalf of the citizens that voted for me to stand for RA. To negate my votes would be a disservice to those voters who also acted in good faith.
[12:36] Rosie Gray: Secondly, I have spent all of the time as NG Secretary researching the NG and have not made any other actions that could be construed as in conflict with the RA.
[12:37] Rosie Gray: Thirdly, although it may contravene the charter of the New Guild, it does not contravene anything in the RA charter – this would follow that the concern is more particularly for the NG or for the SC, not for the RA.
[12:37] Rosie Gray: I have thought long and hard about this situation, and come to the conclusion that only the Scientific Council can make the decision to solve this question. I leave it in their capable hands to make the wisest judgement as to where I should remain in service to the community.
[12:37] Rosie Gray: Thank you, I am done.
[12:37] Pip Torok: hear hear
[12:38] Arria Perreault: thank you, Rosie
[12:39] Arria Perreault: I have apologized for my mistake and I agree that only the SC can make the decision about this question.
[12:39] Arria Perreault: I suggest that you send your statement to the Dean of the SC
[12:40] Rosie Gray: okay, good suggestion I will do so
[12:41] Arria Perreault: I have a question: do you intend to keep both position?
[12:41] amgadsef Anton est connecté(e)
[12:41] Rosie Gray: I intend to follow whatever the SC decides is best
[12:41] Arria Perreault: m question to the SC was only about the votes
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I did not ask if someone can hold both positions at the same time
[12:42] Rosie Gray: yes, but I have put that question to them
[12:42] Rosie Gray: since you have asked me to choose
[12:43] Arria Perreault: you don’t intend to respect the Charter of the New Guild?
[12:44] Rosie Gray: I intend to let the SC decide
[12:44] Rosie Gray: if you would like a little more clarification
[12:44] Pip Torok feels that Rosie has put her wishes very clearly
[12:45] Rosie Gray: when Moon discussed the situation of the NG with me
[12:45] You decline Sweet Whispers ~ Magnolia Design, Sweet Whisper (184, 236, 21) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[12:45] Rosie Gray: she indicated that the rules of its operation were needlessly complex in her opinion
[12:45] Rosie Gray: we didn’t go into a lot of detail
[12:45] Rosie Gray: at any rate, I will let the SC decide
[12:46] Arria Perreault: you have to make a specific request, in this case
[12:46] Rosie Gray: I think I have just done so
[12:47] Arria Perreault: I have made a request about the votes only. The SC can decide that the votes are valid because you have acted in godd faith. Now we all know the article 22 of the Charter of the New Guild
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[12:48] Arria Perreault: a validation of the votes doesn’t allow you necessarly to continue to have both position
[12:48] Rosie Gray: I have just said that I put the quesiton to the SC
[12:48] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[12:48] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes, thank you
[12:48] Sudane Erato: maybe Arria has not understodd what Rosie proposed
[12:49] Thinkerer Melville est connecté(e)
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: Do i have the floor?
[12:49] Arria Perreault: yes, and then I am interested to hear Sudane
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: The NG is a non-governmental organization
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: in the CDS
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: it would be no different than if I started
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: a Merchants Guild that
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: wouldnt be a governmnet organizatiuon either
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: As such
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: in my opinion
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie hasn’t violated anything in regards to the governmnent of the CDS
[12:51] Trebor Warcliffe: She has possibly
[12:51] Trebor Warcliffe: violated the charter of the New Guild (a PRIVATE organization) in the cds
[12:51] Arria Perreault: Trebor, the New Guild let ist Charter approved by the RA
[12:52] Arria Perreault: this makes the RA not totally “private”
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: So based on that information it would be up to the NG to determine whether she can maintain that position or not
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: The RA isnt private
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: The NG is
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Even if RA approved the NG it has nothing to do with it
[12:52] Arria Perreault: The RA approved the New Charter too
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: It is not a government entity
[12:53] Arria Perreault: that’s whatI want to be analyzed by the SC
[12:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Well obviously so does Rosie
[12:53] Trebor Warcliffe: That is why she is asking the SC to decide
[12:53] Rosie Gray nods in agreement
[12:53] Arria Perreault: yes, I agree
[12:53] Patroklus Murakami est déconnecté(e)
[12:54] Lydiash Ansome est déconnecté(e)
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: So than you are not asking her to make a decision correct?
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: You are allowing the SC to make the decision?
[12:54] Pip Torok notices that in the NG there is a post “faculty chair” that is unfilled and forms no impediment to RA membership
[12:54] Patroklus Murakami est connecté(e)
[12:54] Rosie Gray: this was my request in my statement Arria
[12:54] Rosie Gray: that the SC decide
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I understand Rosie
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats my point, either the NG decides or the SC can decide if the NG doesnt want to
[12:55] Mathoni Zuhrah est déconnecté(e)
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
[12:55] Bells Semyorka est connecté(e)
[12:55] Arria Perreault: you want to ask the SC if the New Guild Charter can impeach you to be a RA member, despite the fact it was also approved by the RA?
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: impeach?
[12:56] Bagheera Kristan est connecté(e)
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt Raises hand
[12:56] Rosie Gray: can you put that in other words Arria, I am not sure what you mean
[12:56] Arria Perreault: (Arria’s mothertongue is not english)
[12:56] Pip Torok: i move we go to the next item and let the sc or ng ruling take its course
[12:56] Mathoni Zuhrah est connecté(e)
[12:56] Arria Perreault: let me find an other word
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Sonja and Tor have requested time to speak Pip before we move on
[12:57] Pip Torok listens for a “seconded”
[12:57] Mathoni Zuhrah est déconnecté(e)
[12:57] Pip Torok: ok
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: I waive the floor to pip.
[12:58] Arria Perreault: you want to ask the SC if the New Guild Charter doesn’t allow you you to be a RA member, despite the fact it was also approved by thyou want to ask the SC if the New Guild Charter can impeach you to be a RA member, despite the fact it was also approved by the RA?e RA?
[12:58] Patroklus Murakami est déconnecté(e)
[12:58] Rosie Gray: let me say again
[12:58] Patroklus Murakami est connecté(e)
[12:58] Arria Perreault: you want to ask the SC if the New Guild Charter doesn’t allow you you to be a RA member, despite the fact it was also approved by the RA
[12:58] Rosie Gray: I am asking the SC to make a decision not only on how my votes stand, as you have asked
[12:59] Rosie Gray: but I ask them to make a decision as to what should happen with the NG and RA positions that I am holding
[13:00] Arria Perreault: yes, I think I have understood that
[13:00] Rosie Gray: okay ㋡
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria technically the NG can’t force Rosie to resign from her position as RA they can only ask her to step down from the Chair because she is a member of the RA.
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I suggest you make a specific request
[13:01] Arria Perreault: now Pip, Tor and Sonja
[13:02] Pip Torok: i pass …
[13:02] Arria Perreault: Tor
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I respectfully waive the floor
[13:02] Bells Semyorka est déconnecté(e)
[13:02] Arria Perreault: Sonja?
[13:03] Sonja Strom: I have nothing to add to the conversation, thank you.
[13:03] Arria Perreault: any other citizen concerns?
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: None here
[13:04] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[13:04] Lizzo Dreamscape est déconnecté(e)
[13:04] Arria Perreault: Pat
[13:05] Patroklus Murakami: thx, just to say that i’ve been filming the session for a CDS promo machinima. can ppl say they’re happy for me to film them if they have not done so already?
[13:05] Sudane Erato: fine with me Pat
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Very happy
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: np pat
[13:05] Patroklus Murakami: ty i think that’s everyone now.
[13:06] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:06] Arria Perreault: a. Referendum for the Kirche
[13:06] Patroklus Murakami est déconnecté(e)
[13:06] Pip Torok recalls “Smile, you’re on Candid Camera” …
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I open the discussion (20 min). There is two motions in the form. I suggest that we discuss the referedum first
[13:07] Arria Perreault: Trebor, let me give the floor to RA members first, please
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok please dont forget about me though
[13:08] Arria Perreault: sure
[13:08] Arria Perreault: who wants to speak?
[13:08] Pip Torok wd like 1-2 minutes to bring up his referendum-set-proposal
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:08] Pip Torok: can you excuse me for 1-2minutes please Mme LRA?
[13:08] Sonja Strom: Pip, you have 1-2 minutes, hehe :-)
[13:08] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[13:09] Sonja Strom: The clock is running….
[13:09] Sonja Strom: (laughs)
[13:09] Arria Perreault: does anyonw want to speak waiting for Pip?
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: I can if you like, Im kind of thinking we can solve the Kirche issue without a referendum
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: We have to, referenda are not binding.
[13:10] Arria Perreault: we listen to you, Trebor, then Pip
[13:10] Arria Perreault: Tor is right
[13:10] Rosie Gray: just trying to find it on the forum, the link doesn’t work from the Agenda
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok first let me make sure I understand exactly what a referendum is
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: This is a proposal to put on the next RA ballot
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: For the citizens to vote on correct?
[13:11] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3500
[13:11] Arria Perreault: yes, Trebor
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok thank you
[13:11] Pip Torok: i have my set here mme LRA
[13:12] Trebor Warcliffe: I can continue or I can give the floor to Pip considering he is RA
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: ???
[13:13] Arria Perreault: I think has priority. we come to your idea later
[13:13] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[13:13] Pip Torok: thank you … i am proposing … once we have agreed to have some of referendum … that the referendum take this form:
[13:13] new purple skirt for gown: starting to send, please wait…
[13:13] Pip Torok: 1. The building created by Rosie Gray has been installed in the MarktPlatz for one month. Do you now wish it to replace the original building created by Bladedancer Pendragon?

That question would have been put only after Rosie’s building had been in place no less (but no longer) than one calendar month.
[13:13] new purple skirt for gown: done sending
[13:14] new purple skirt for gown: Done with task, menu available again.
[13:14] Arria Perreault: thank you Pip
[13:14] Rosie Gray thinks that Pip’s purple skirt is quite eloquent
[13:14] Pip Torok: youll see that hat the referendum makes sense in the context of the new church having a months trial IN SITE
[13:14] Pip Torok: done
[13:14] You decline Sweet Whispers ~ Magnolia Design, Sweet Whisper (184, 236, 21) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[13:15] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:15] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:15] Rosie Gray: This proposal that you have put on the forum Arria
[13:15] Rosie Gray: I think it would have been appropriate to discuss with the RA first
[13:15] Rosie Gray: rather than making your own proposal
[13:15] Rosie Gray: to me this is not a very democratic approach
[13:16] Pip Torok: agree
[13:16] Arria Perreault: It’s only a proposal Rosie ㋡
[13:16] Rosie Gray: yes I understand, but what if we all put proposals like that
[13:16] Rosie Gray: without first discussing with the rst of the RA?
[13:16] Arria Perreault: we can, of course
[13:16] Arria Perreault: Pip has added his own proposal
[13:16] Rosie Gray: it is only right, since it is meant to come from the rA
[13:17] Arria Perreault: I just wanted to start the discussion in the forum
[13:17] Sonja Strom *raises hand*
[13:17] Arria Perreault: I am also one of the RA member
[13:17] Arria Perreault: Sonja
[13:17] Arria Perreault: (or I am the only one who cannot make proposal ? ;-) )
[13:18] Sonja Strom: I think it could be good to say that Referendums in the CDS are only informative to the RA. They are not legally binding. Thanks.
[13:18] Rosie Gray: you can, but you said it was from the RA
[13:18] Rosie Gray: when it was from you
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria you presented a proposal on behalf of the RA when you were the only individual to contribute to the proposal.
[13:18] Arria Perreault: you misunderstood what I wrote
[13:18] Arria Perreault: I did not, believe me
[13:18] Rosie Gray: that is how it appears
[13:18] Rosie Gray: since, that is what you said
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: That is how it appears
[13:19] Arria Perreault: maybe, but it’s far from my intention
[13:19] Rosie Gray: “…the RA will ask the following questions…`
[13:19] Sonja Strom: It did not appear that way to me.
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Well even a better reason to first consult with your peers
[13:19] Arria Perreault: that’s why I wrote “Proposal” just above
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: before you make actions on your own
[13:19] Rosie Gray: okay then I can accept that, since I understand that English is not your first language
[13:19] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:19] Pip Torok feels that this perception of primacy or otherwise is the paramount point to be established here
[13:19] Rosie Gray: but perhaps you can learn from this that this is how it seems.
[13:20] Arria Perreault: I wrote “proposal” and then a text that the RA could vote
[13:20] Arria Perreault: it has the form of a motion
[13:20] Arria Perreault: as it is a proposal, the RA is not engaged as long as the text is not voted
[13:20] Rosie Gray: I will not belabour the point
[13:21] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: A proposal from the RA needs to be from the RA not an individual member of the RA but from the group as a whole.
[13:21] Arria Perreault: can we discuss the question of the referendum now
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes please
[13:21] Rosie Gray: yes
[13:21] Pip Torok: yes
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: I am ready to continue with my ideas on the kirche ref whenever I can please
[13:22] Arria Perreault: (Trebor, my txt was wrong, but not my intention. Should I apologize again for my bad english?)
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Nope we’re good thank you
[13:22] Arria Perreault: thx
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: So do I have the floor?
[13:23] Arria Perreault: does anyone in the RA wants to add something or do you want to listen Trebor?
[13:23] Pip Torok: nothing from me right now mme lra
[13:23] Rosie Gray: nor from me
[13:23] Arria Perreault: you have the floor, Trebor
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I dont feel we need to wait until the next ballot to resolve this issue
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Lets take Rosies Church
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Puit it on an empty parcel
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Do group notices to all in the CDS
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Let them explore the church while the old church is still inworld
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Than they can offer suggestions, input, opinions, etc
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: It is important to update our SIMS but at the same time do all we can to preserve our heritage
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: If we remove old buildings Id like to have the capability
[13:26] Pip Torok: wd you agree to a months interval trebor?
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: I feel with forum postings and group notices
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: that a month woudl be long enough
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: for the RA
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: to get a general feel
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: of what the citizens of the CDS
[13:26] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: want in regards to this matter
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Rosie?
[13:26] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:26] Rosie Gray: I wanted to say a couple of things
[13:27] Rosie Gray: firstly, I have got a full permissions copy now of the old Kirche
[13:27] Rosie Gray: and I’ve given it to the archivist
[13:27] Trebor Warcliffe: EXCELLENT
[13:27] Sudane Erato: great!
[13:27] Pip Torok: :-) ) marvellous
[13:27] Arria Perreault: very good
[13:27] Trebor Warcliffe: That is awesome news
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:28] Rosie Gray: secondly, I’d like to say that the kirche that I’ve made took me approx. 70 hours to create, between researching what is appropriate for a Bavarian medieval town, and building it
[13:28] Rosie Gray: but it is not completely finished
[13:29] Rosie Gray: as it needs to be put into place to do that… to do the crypt that I have planned
[13:29] Rosie Gray: it needs to merge with the ground
[13:29] Rosie Gray: just so everyone understands that
[13:29] Trebor Warcliffe: What exactly is hte crypt if i may ask?
[13:29] Sudane Erato: the basement
[13:29] Rosie Gray: well… I planned a crypt for the basement of the kirche
[13:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Pardon me Im not a very religious person
[13:29] Rosie Gray: it’s where the coffins go
[13:29] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: oooh ok
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: cool
[13:30] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:30] Arria Perreault: you should visit the one of the <Monastery ;-)
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: Ive explored hte monestary probably didnt know what iw as looking at though LOL
[13:31] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[13:31] Rosie Gray: also, that part of the crypt plans
[13:31] Pip Torok: i wouild suggest therefore that rosie’s church now be placed in situ for tyhe month
[13:31] Rosie Gray: were to include some of the memorials from the old Kirche
[13:31] Trebor Warcliffe: good idea
[13:31] Lizzo Dreamscape est connecté(e)
[13:31] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:32] Pip Torok: and hope to hear any objections to my suggestion from the floor …
[13:32] Arria Perreault: Rosie, I understand that you need to put your church in place to finish it?
[13:32] Rosie Gray: yes that is correct Arria
[13:32] Rosie Gray: to complete the crypt part
[13:33] Arria Perreault: let me remind you that we have already voted to replace the church
[13:33] Arria Perreault: the question of today is only to add a referendum about the church in the next ballot (in december)
[13:34] pixivor Allen est connecté(e)
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Im confused Arria
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: If a vote has been made to replace the church, and we wont lose hte church because we have a full perm copy
[13:34] Arria Perreault: the referendum is not bidding, Trebor
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: than why would we need a ref?
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: I understand its not binding
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: i get that
[13:35] Rosie Gray: we have not decided as an RA if we want a referendum
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: But if we already solved the problem than what is there to answer
[13:35] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:36] Arria Perreault: it could interesting to knwo what citizen think about replacement of building
[13:36] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:36] Pip Torok: more or less what you said, mme lra … it does mean that the CITIZENS are directly heard
[13:37] Arria Perreault: I agree
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: There has already been a LOT of feedback on this matter from the citizens
[13:37] Rosie Gray: yes there has
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Even before this term began
[13:37] Rosie Gray: mostly before this term began
[13:37] Sonja Strom: I think it is good for us to allow the citizens to have official, direct participation in this decision. I see nothing wrong with it being a referendum question.
[13:38] Rosie Gray: I would like to ask a question about this then
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Cant they have direct participation without us having to wait untuil next ballot
[13:38] Arria Perreault: yes Rosie
[13:38] Rosie Gray: is this the expectation, that every sim upgrade project be voted on by referendum?
[13:38] Pip Torok: imo the main thing is that the church be installed _without undue delay_ … the referendum can and should wait till later
[13:38] Arria Perreault: (no Trebor)
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt wonders if the exec should merely plan some sort of ceremony and have the bildings switched.
[13:39] Pip Torok: i hope not, Rosie … !
[13:39] Arria Perreault: I think it is possible, Pip
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Sure they can Arria
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Call a vote of the citizens
[13:39] Pip Torok: thats why an NG is needed!
[13:39] Rosie Gray: it seems a good way to go in circles and never accomplish anything
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Do a group notice to all CDS citizens
[13:39] Arria Perreault: I can’t call a vote of citizen
[13:39] Pip Torok: so lets install the church …!
[13:39] Arria Perreault: Rosie, let me tell this
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: My point is this
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Last election 55 citizens
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: 30 voters
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Read the forum postings about the issue of replacing the church
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Overall feedback from those citizens was replace the old as long as we can save the old
[13:40] Arria Perreault: I think that the further projects in the sims upgrade have to be done a bit differently than the project of the church
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[13:40] Arria Perreault: people have to be involved since the beginning
[13:41] Arria Perreault: not when a building is ready
[13:41] Pip Torok: ??
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: They have been
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: the NG contracts for builds
[13:41] Arria Perreault: if it is the case, we will never have a referendum
[13:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Anyone who wanted to state an opinion has had the opportunity
[13:41] Rosie Gray: you think there should be a referendum for every sim upgrade?
[13:41] Ceasar Xigalia est déconnecté(e)
[13:41] Arria Perreault: the New Guild will work and come to the RA for decision and for financial matters
[13:42] Pip Torok: in that case I move that the new church be installed with the minimum of delay
[13:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Youre making the replacement of one building more difficult than bringing an entire SIM inworld
[13:42] Rosie Gray: indeed
[13:43] Arria Perreault: Rosie, if people are involved since the beginning (idea), we don’t need to make a referendum each time
[13:43] Pip Torok: (a “seconded”?)
[13:43] Trebor Warcliffe: Democracy has been in play in regards to this manner since Rosie first brought it to the forums
[13:43] Rosie Gray: second
[13:43] Arria Perreault: Trebor, you should try once to make a project of sim in CDS :-)
[13:43] Rosie Gray: indeed it has been
[13:43] Trebor Warcliffe: People have been involved
[13:44] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria explain to me how anybody who wants to be involved in this decison hasnt had the oppurtunity
[13:44] Arria Perreault: we don’t need to vote about that. we have already voted the replacement, Pip
[13:44] Rosie Gray: there has been plenty of opportunity for anyone who cares to participate, to do so
[13:44] Arria Perreault: Rosie can install the church after this meeting
[13:44] Pip Torok: have we … and with the minimumof delay????
[13:44] Trebor Warcliffe: We cant get 25 people to vote in our elections, if they choose not to participate than they can if not its their loss
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: I volunteer to write an article on the new Kirche
[13:45] Rosie Gray: thank you Trebor
[13:45] Arria Perreault: Trebor, I think it works with an active New Guild which is also a democratic institution
[13:45] You decline Club Bella Luz ~ Windy Shores, Windy Shores (177, 155, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: we have a copy of the church. We can use it on occaisions.
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: to be presented to various in-world publications
[13:45] Trebor Warcliffe: as a promotional tool
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria unfortunately we dont have a lot of active members like yourself and the rest of us here. We have to keep that in mind.
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: We care
[13:46] Pip Torok: mme lra when exactly did we vote to install the churh?
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: We give a damn
[13:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats why we participate
[13:46] Sonja Strom *raises hand*
[13:47] Arria Perreault: we have voted on 17th July
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip it was your motionwhen I was to attempt a rollback
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: If the ACTIVE citizens of the CDS are going to make progress in the CDS than they are going to have to take the reins and make it happen.
[13:48] Trebor Warcliffe: Sorry Sonja i didnt mean to hit enter yet and interrupt you
[13:48] Pip Torok: and so we agree that it was passed and that there is NO barrier to Rosie starting work whenever she is ready?
[13:48] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip
[13:49] Arria Perreault: Trebor, I suggest we have a deabte about citizen participation in an other time
[13:49] Arria Perreault: Sonja, you have the floor
[13:49] Sonja Strom: This is not a normal issue of content – this question is about how the citizens feel about replacing an original Neualtenburg building with a new build (which I feel is much higher quality).
[13:49] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[13:50] Arria Perreault: we have used much more than our time of discussion about this question
[13:51] Arria Perreault: do you want to vote the motion of Pip or mine or to postpone the discussion in the next meeting or anything else?
[13:51] Zeus Argus est connecté(e)
[13:52] Arria Perreault listening for motions
[13:53] Pip Torok: move to vote
[13:53] Sonja Strom: second
[13:53] amgadsef Anton est déconnecté(e)
[13:54] Arria Perreault: we vote your motion, Pip?
[13:54] Pip Torok: ie to vote on my motion
[13:54] Arria Perreault: can you paste again the text?
[13:54] Pip Torok: ok minute …
[13:54] Arria Perreault: there is a 7day vote
[13:54] Raffila Millgrove est connecté(e)
[13:55] Pip Torok: I move that the new church be installed with the minimum of delay
[13:56] Arria Perreault: it was not the motion with the referendum?
[13:57] Pip Torok: thats the motion i thought you meant … the original i had proposed is i believe not relevant … i withdraw my referendum motion
[13:57] Timo Gufler est déconnecté(e)
[13:57] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:57] Pip Torok: I move that the new church be installed with the minimum of delay
[13:57] Zeena Stoop est connecté(e)
[13:58] Arria Perreault: any second?
[13:58] Rosie Gray: second
[13:58] Arria Perreault: we vote
[13:58] Pip Torok: aye
[13:58] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:58] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:58] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:59] Arria Perreault: Fern has requested the right to vote on this topic
[13:59] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:59] Arria Perreault: but the motion carries
[13:59] Arria Perreault: I note that we will not have a referendum about the church
[14:00] Arria Perreault: I think it’s too late to take a second point today
[14:00] Zeena Stoop est déconnecté(e)
[14:00] Arria Perreault: we have two other points that are important for the next meeting
[14:01] Arria Perreault: one is the proposal of Sudane: CDS asset security issues
[14:01] Arria Perreault: the other one is the Hippo system
[14:02] Arria Perreault: I have a request for both proponents
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[14:02] Arria Perreault: Sudane and Trebor
[14:02] Arria Perreault: Tor
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a document for you
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: i can give you the link
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZNP … t?hl=en_US
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Trebor suggest that I merely post this to the forum
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree
[14:03] Trebor Warcliffe: To allow for citizen feedback
[14:03] Arria Perreault: Yes, please
[14:04] Arria Perreault: thank you very much, Tor
[14:04] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[14:04] Arria Perreault: it was my request
[14:04] Pip Torok raises hand
[14:04] Arria Perreault: Pip
[14:05] Pip Torok: to save time arranging meetings can we make use of the relevant software?
[14:05] Pip Torok thinks of the comng RA meetings
[14:05] Arria Perreault: which software do you mean?
[14:06] Pip Torok: the one we have used in the past to agree suitable attendance times..
[14:06] Arria Perreault: Doodle?
[14:06] Pip Torok: yes!
[14:06] Rosie Gray: good idea
[14:06] Arria Perreault: do you want to ask for each meeting?
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand for announcements
[14:07] Pip Torok: no just to establish when each of us CANNOT attend … then to work from there
[14:07] Arria Perreault: I thought that sunday at noon was fine for everyone in the RA
[14:07] Arria Perreault: ok, I understand
[14:07] Arria Perreault: np for me
[14:07] Pip Torok: it is for me … but we have summer vacations …
[14:07] Rosie Gray: things change for people
[14:08] Arria Perreault: we can have the next meeting in 2 weeks
[14:08] Pip Torok: fine for me!
[14:09] Arria Perreault: Rosie, Sonja?
[14:09] Arria Perreault: 14th August
[14:09] Rosie Gray: right now it’s okay for me, but that could change
[14:09] Arria Perreault: in this case, you tell me
[14:09] Sonja Strom: In two weeks is good for me.
[14:10] Arria Perreault: the next meeting is in 2 weeks
[14:10] Pip Torok: so (with luck) we can do it…
[14:10] Arria Perreault: Tor had some announcements
[14:10] Tor Karlsvalt: yes thank you Ms. LRA
[14:11] Tor Karlsvalt: After my earlier statement I came to learn that the VDI Board rejected Rose’s resignation. She is now asking for people to help. I still on behalf of CDS wish AA the best in their troubled time. Thank you.
[14:12] You decline Club Bella Luz ~ Windy Shores, Windy Shores (177, 155, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[14:12] hippoRENT Rental Box (Web-Enabled) v5.65: Arosa Cottage “Perreault” @ Arosa 13, 243, 130 – Your house / haus has 4 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes and 58 seconds left to run. Land fee is coming due, please top it off soon. / Landgebuehr wird bald faelig, bitte eine Zahlung machen.
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: i know it is all difficult to conprehend
[14:13] Pip Torok feels that Tor speaks for all of us
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: it all seems a turmoil
[14:13] Arria Perreault: thank you, Tor
[14:14] Arria Perreault: any other announcements? events?
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy is scheduled for the 20th at noon
[14:15] Trebor Warcliffe: ???
[14:15] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: btw pip
[14:15] Arria Perreault: where?
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: sory
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the Old Bowl
[14:16] Bells Semyorka est connecté(e)
[14:16] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: thought that would make a nice summer concert venue
[14:17] Arria Perreault: can we adjourn (I need a motion)?
[14:17] Sonja Strom: I move we adjourn.
[14:17] Rosie Gray: seconded
[14:17] Arria Perreault: vote
[14:17] Rosie Gray: aye
[14:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:18] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[14:18] Pip Torok: aye
[14:18] Thinkerer Melville est déconnecté(e)
[14:18] Arria Perreault: we are adjourned
[14:18] Pip Torok: claps as well!
[14:18] Arria Perreault: thank you for the meeting

IX. Adjournment

Permalink.

RA Meeting 14 August 2011

RA Agenda 14th August 2011, 12:00 AM SLT, Praetorium

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. INFORMATIONS

a. Information from the SC meeting

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
–

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)

a. CDS asset security issues (20 min) : http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486
b. Hippo System (20 min)
FAQ: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZNP … t?hl=en_US
c. Estate power in CDS

V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

FAQ Hippo System:

Madam LRA asked that I provide a short presentation of the the hippo system in general and a it is currently in use in LA.

First, Hippo Rent was designed to collect rent. For our purpose it is used lightly differently as we consider our monthly contributions to be our share of the LL tier owed by CDS. In some ways this is as distinction without a difference. Hippo Rent handles the tier collection well and has some advantages.

First what does it entail?

The setup is fairly labor intensive. Each parcel requires a picture and an LM. Fortunately, this is a one time operation unless updates are needed. Even then, it would be doubtful that the updates would extend for a whole region.

Each parcel requires its own payment box. If you have bee to LA in the past several months you might have seen the hippo boxes placed by Rudeen. They are a small box on top of a pillar. Each box is three prims. In order to not use prims on the parcel, the hippo box is anchored to a prim paced on public land just out side the parcel. This is necessary for two reasons. First, we do not want to use three prims for which the owner is paying. Second, we cannot have the owner of the parcel return prims that are not his and thus remove the hippo box. This is a rather unique part of of our use of Hippo Rent, as our Citizens own the parcels.

The box does provide advantages to CDS. First, it disseminates information about a parcel or the quickly. It is easy to find for visitors. It provides a warning to the owner if tier is overdue as it will change to a sign showing that the parcel is reserved. Finally, it provides a For Sale sign when the parcel is not owned.

What are the pros:

Citizens can pay tier in advance. The Hippo system does allows pre-payment of tier.

Obviously, Sudane is always willing to arrange for pre-payment when necessary. Yet I believe this does require some manual action or bookkeeping on her part. Also, it would require some coordination that might be forgotten or just difficult under some unexpected situations.

Greater transparency.

Hippo Rent allow us to have assistant treasurers access to a web based utility for administration of the system. All the work thus would not have to fall on one person. Also, more than one person would have access to records. Sudane would still be the only person with access to actual funds.

Easier Administration.

It would not be necessary to create a tier box for every person as they entered and left CDS.

Stable system.

Hippo Rent has been around a long time. It has a proven track record. It guarantees our data will be safe regardless if our sims crash or our computers crash.

Widely used.

Most of SL is probably able to understands Hippo rent and is familiar with it.

Aide in sales.

Hippo Rent has the ability to update rental vendors. We can have these anywhere in SL or on our sims.

Then the specs seem show some real great advantages of Hippo. Beyond those already mentioned, there are customizable messages, automatic warnings, emails, acceptance buttons, automatic evictions (don’t worry, this is only an option that can be turned on and off), multiple managers, web interface for easy control, 100 percent backup of data, detailed reports, reports that can be exported to excel, remote vendors for advertising parcels and paying rent, and the list goes on.

All the specs can be found at: http://www.hippo-technologies.co.uk/pro … /index.php

What are the Cons?

The most noticeable shortcoming is the need to pay each box. Thus, an owner of multiple parcels must visit each of his parcels every month. I don not find this a problem as I just pay the box when I think tier is near and I happen to be by the box. Also, if you pay in advance, remembering to log in to pay tier is not a big problem. Granted, I own only two parcels in LA.

We will have a problem ensuring that new citizens complete their sale by paying the tier box. One can buy a parcel and not pay the tier. It will still take some manual effort to watch who owns parcels and ensure that they pay the box.

The Hippo boxes will be a additional prim load. This will especially impact NFS.

Discussion forum links about Hippo

http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3456&p=17448&hilit=hippo#p17448

http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3432&p=17403&hilit=hippo#p17403

Transcript

[12:04] Arria Perreault: we can start the meeting
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Oh. ok Trebor. You look fine… but it was worrying

[12:04] Arria Perreault: I. ADMIN
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Sandra
[12:05] Arria Perreault: Hi Sandra
[12:05] Arria Perreault: a. Review this agenda
[12:05] Sandra Galdonaldo: Good evening all:)
[12:05] Arria Perreault: The agenda is in the box
[12:05] Arria Perreault: It was published on the CDS forum on friday
[12:06] Arria Perreault: do you agree with this agenda?
[12:06] Pip Torok: yes
[12:06] Fern Leissa: yes
[12:06] Rosie Gray: yes
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Hi Calli
[12:06] Pip Torok: hi Calli
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Calli
[12:06] Callipygian Christensen: hi everyone
[12:07] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Hello Calli, good to see you.
[12:07] Arria Perreault: can we keep this agenda?
[12:07] Fern Leissa: yes
[12:07] Pip Torok: yes
[12:07] Rosie Gray: yes
[12:08] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:08] Arria Perreault: Sonja cannot attend the meeting today. She has asked for a 7-day vote
[12:08] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items
[12:09] Arria Perreault: who wants to speak today (non-RA members)
[12:09] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:09] Fern Leissa: Hi Moonrise
[12:09] Rosie Gray: hi Moonrise
[12:09] Pip Torok: hi Moonrise … long time!
[12:10] Moonrise Azalee: hi!
[12:10] Rosie Gray:

[12:10] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Moonrise
[12:10] Moonrise Azalee:

hi!
[12:10] Arria Perreault: Hi Azalee
[12:10] Bagheera Kristan is Online
[12:10] Moonrise Azalee: just rezzing… slowly
[12:10] Moonrise Azalee: Hello Arria
[12:11] Pip Torok: slow rezzings are good for the moon …

[12:11] Arria Perreault: I’d like to remind the attendance that the RA has rules of procedures: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281
[12:11] Moonrise Azalee: lol.
[12:11] Arria Perreault: Please raise you hand before to speak
[12:11] Arria Perreault: I have one point under Informations
[12:11] Arria Perreault: a. Information from the SC meeting
[12:12] Arria Perreault: I have requested a ruling to the SC about the question of the article 22 of the New Guild Charter. The SC has met. I want to thank the SC to have organized a meeting quickly.
[12:14] Arria Perreault: The SC has considered that the New Guild has to solve the question of the membership of its newly elected Secretary
[12:14] Arria Perreault: The SC has considered that the New Guild is a private organization.
[12:15] Arria Perreault: the fact that the RA has approved the Charter of the New Guild was not seen as a sign of a special link between the any CDS governmental branch and the New Guild
[12:16] Arria Perreault: I have commented this decision in the forum
[12:16] Aileen Zessinthal is Offline
[12:16] Arria Perreault: I mention two things here:
[12:16] Arria Perreault: first: the SC did not invalidate our votes (it was my main concern)
[12:17] Arria Perreault: second: the decision of the SC opens other questions like the relation and the collaboration between the New Guild and the CDS gov
[12:18] Arria Perreault: one of this question is in the agenda (Estate power)
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Now the question of the article 22 is in the hands of the New Guild
[12:19] Arria Perreault: any question or comment?
[12:19] Fern Leissa: may I?
[12:19] Arria Perreault: yes, Fern
[12:19] Pip Torok: yes … first of all … do we know the the NG currently exists?
[12:20] Valibrarian Gregg is Online
[12:20] Pip Torok: second … who now represents the NG?
[12:20] Pip Torok: (sorry Fern!)
[12:20] Fern Leissa: I don’t know that the ra has any jurisdiction here.. but I would like to suggest that we
[12:20] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:20] Fern Leissa: recommend that Rosie call a NG meeting and that the nG] [12:21] Fern Leissa: NG vote on whether or not they wish to amend the requirement that the NG head cannot hold a governmental posit
[12:21] Fern Leissa: position.
[12:22] Fern Leissa: I’d also like to recommend that the NG look to review and perhaps simplify its charter
[12:22] Fern Leissa: As the size of the population does not warrent such a complicated structure… and
[12:22] Fern Leissa: probably cannot support it
[12:22] Fern Leissa: done
[12:22] Arria Perreault: The SC considers that the NG is a private organization. I understand that we don’t have any juridiction on the NG. We can only make an advice.
[12:22] Arria Perreault: Rosie?
[12:23] Pip Torok raises hand
[12:23] Arria Perreault: Rosie has raised hand
[12:23] Rosie Gray: I was just going to say, that I would call a meeting of the NG soon
[12:23] Rosie Gray: date and time tba
[12:24] Arria Perreault: do you intend to take this point in the agenda?
[12:25] Rosie Gray: sorry, I’m not sure what you are asking me?
[12:26] Arria Perreault: do you intend to take the question of the article 22 of the NG Charter in the agenda?
[12:26] Rosie Gray: I think that the Agenda will be decided sometime later
[12:26] Rosie Gray: it doesn’t matter at the moment
[12:27] Rosie Gray: but of course everyone’s concerns will be addressed
[12:28] Arria Perreault: I think it is a concern for this meeting (at least from me)
[12:28] Rosie Gray: no Agenda is prepared right now Arria
[12:28] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises Hand
[12:28] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[12:28] Rosie Gray: but it would seem necessary to address the charter
[12:29] Trebor Warcliffe: The New Guild
Group Description: The New Guild is a public-chartered, non-profit, non-partisan, Non-Governmental Organization that is open to all citizens of the CDS. The New Guild mission incorporates organizing, planning, and executing high-quality content, while providing on-going education and certification of content-creation skills.
[12:29] Trebor Warcliffe: This isnt an RA concern can we please move on to RA concerns.
[12:29] Pip Torok hopes his raised hand is noticed
[12:29] Arria Perreault: Pip (sorry)
[12:30] Pip Torok: just to say .. that we shd keep in mind that our stance to NG (and SC) should be primarily advisory although in the last analysis we are the legislative body
[12:30] Pip Torok: done
[12:31] Arria Perreault: thank you Pip (you’re right)
[12:31] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[12:32] Arria Perreault: who wants to speak?
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes thank you
[12:32] Trebor Warcliffe: May I ask who has teh ability to update the web portal?
[12:33] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I can inform you easely
[12:33] Arria Perreault: maybe two points: the law and the reality
[12:33] Trebor Warcliffe: ok?
[12:35] Arria Perreault: the communication bill say that the LRA, the Chancellor and the Dean of the SC should have access to all official communication channels ofCDS
[12:35] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:35] Arria Perreault: of course the PIO should also have the ability to update the portal
[12:35] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes and maybe the Content Archivist
[12:36] Trebor Warcliffe: So who CURRENLTY has access to it?
[12:36] Arria Perreault: yes of course
[12:36] Arria Perreault: now the reality and maybe a point about the history of the portal
[12:36] Trebor Warcliffe: I have two concerns regarding this matter, that is why I am asking these questions.
[12:36] Arria Perreault: I was PIO when Alexicon Kurka was Chancellor. we have created this portal with Mizou Vavoom
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:37] Arria Perreault: right now, only me and Sonja have an access
[12:38] Arria Perreault: I try to update it regularly
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Why do only you and Sonja have access currently?
[12:38] Arria Perreault: I offer also regularly the possibility to have an access to everyone who should have this ability to update
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: So you do have the ability to grant access to the other citizens who shold have access?
[12:39] Arria Perreault: I have make sure that the Content Archivist get an acces at every term
[12:40] Fern Leissa: / raises hand
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I ask Alexicon
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: I’m speaking currently for this term. Tor the chancellor, Anna the PIO, Soro the head of the SC
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: My two points are this
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I was going to write to Soro
[12:40] Arria Perreault: Anna and Tor can have an access at any time
[12:40] Arria Perreault: it’s not closed, Trebor
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: One it has been almost two weeks that I sent an email to Arria, Tor, and Sudane to edit the link for the Master Parcel List
[12:41] Arria Perreault: Anna has preferred to open a blog beside the portal
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Yet it still hasnt been posted
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: My second concern adn a much greater concern
[12:41] Arria Perreault: I will do it, Trebor. I came from my holidays today
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: There is a LOT of information on teh web portal that is either out of date or no longer pertinent
[12:41] Sandra Galdonaldo: good nite all:)
[12:41] josjoha Resident: nighty san
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Good night Sandra

[12:42] Arria Perreault: (Soro and I, we should also get an access to the CDS blog ;-)

)
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Wouldnt it benefit teh community as a whole to have more than just two people to currently have access?
[12:42] Rosie Gray: goodnight Sandra
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Im sure it would ease the workload for Arria and Sonja
[12:42] Arria Perreault: our intention was to share this, of course
[12:43] Arria Perreault: ask Anna again
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: I’ve been working on a checklist
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: of items i noticed that need to be edited
[12:43] Pip Torok agrees with treb as long as we do not get chaos as a result
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: If you like I can post this to the forum
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: and those responsible can update accordingly
[12:43] Arria Perreault: as far as I know, I don’t think that she wants an access
[12:43] Arria Perreault: yes,please post it
[12:43] Arria Perreault: it’s useful
[12:43] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I will
[12:44] Arria Perreault: Calli
[12:44] Callipygian Christensen: Access to the portal, and access to the CDS forums etc should be something that is automatically updated at each change of government
[12:44] BigRedCoyote Resident is Online
[12:44] Arria Perreault: (I would like to update the members of the SC)
[12:45] Arria Perreault: Calli, I think I have written a mail to Alexicon every term
[12:45] Callipygian Christensen: automatically, as in, ‘someone with the power to do so is required to give access to those who now are entitled ALONG WITH a note of how to use it and any other pertinent information
[12:45] Arria Perreault: I can give the names of people who will never use it of course
[12:45] Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent idea Calli
[12:46] Rosie Gray agrees with Calli’s suggestion
[12:46] Fern Leissa: /raises hand
[12:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria why are you trying to throw dirt into a positive conversation?
[12:46] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:46] Callipygian Christensen: I don’t believe I have evermet Alexicon – if someone not really active in CDS controls that sort of update, perhaps that is part of the problem?
[12:46] Pip Torok: ?
[12:46] Arria Perreault: Alexicon has always responded
[12:47] Rosie Gray: who is Alexicon?
[12:47] Fern Leissa: Arria, if I understand, you have asked Alexicon to update portal access each term? Is that right?
[12:47] Arria Perreault: we will adress this question. let me think about
[12:47] Arria Perreault: for the next meeting
[12:47] Fern Leissa: Also..
[12:47] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes who is Alexicon and why does he/she have access to our portal
[12:47] Callipygian Christensen: Then it seems a simple solution to have the new LRA, or some other designate, make sure that all accesses are in place – done
[12:47] Arria Perreault: he is the creator of the portal
[12:48] Fern Leissa: Is it the Content Archivist that should have access or the RA Archivist?
[12:48] Arria Perreault: he was Chancellor of CDS
[12:48] Arria Perreault: the RA Archivist, sorry
[12:48] Pip Torok: /raises hand
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Fern first, then Pip
[12:49] Pip Torok: may I suggest that the portal software is acquired and held by the Content Archivist?
[12:49] Fern Leissa: lastly…
[12:49] Fern Leissa: It seems part of the question is not just who has access but who is responsible for updating specific portal pages
[12:49] Pip Torok: (sorry again, Fern)
[12:49] Fern Leissa: Maybe that is an issue we need to look at .
[12:49] Arria Perreault: I agree, Fern ㋡
[12:49] Fern Leissa: Done. Np Pip
[12:49] Fern Leissa:

[12:50] Arria Perreault: the technical ability to update is not as important as the redaction of contents
[12:50] Arria Perreault: I am glad to hear that
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: I will add the work I’ve done to the forum and welcome any and all contributions to that work so whoever is tasked with updatign the portal will have a good foundation to work with.
[12:51] Arria Perreault: Pip, the software need some technical ability (at least fort hr administration)
[12:51] Trebor Warcliffe: I have not other citizen concerns for this RA meeting thank you.
[12:51] Arria Perreault: now our portal is hosted by Alexicon
[12:51] Arria Perreault: other concerns?
[12:51] Moonrise Azalee raises hand
[12:52] Arria Perreault: Moonrize, you have the floor?
[12:52] Moonrise Azalee: Just wanted to offer, that having the hosting info for the portal is important to ensure that there is a back up in case the site goes down.
[12:52] Moonrise Azalee: even if it can just be assured that a back up copy is made from time to time so that content would not be lost
[12:53] Moonrise Azalee: done
[12:53] Arria Perreault: thank you, I will ask Alexicon
[12:53] Arria Perreault: other concerns?
[12:54] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
[12:54] Arria Perreault: no one
[12:54] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS
[12:54] Arria Perreault: a. CDS asset security issues
[12:55] Arria Perreault: Infortunately Sudane is not there today
[12:55] Arria Perreault: do you want to discuss this point ?
[12:56] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:56] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[12:56] Pip Torok: if you feel Sudanes prsence is vital, then I suggest we move on
[12:56] Rosie Gray: I think we should wait until Sudane is here
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Can I consider that we have a motion to table and a second?
[12:57] Rosie Gray: motion
[12:57] Rosie Gray: so motioned
[12:57] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:57] Arria Perreault: vote to table the topic
[12:57] Pip Torok: aye
[12:57] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:57] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:57] Rosie Gray: aye
[12:58] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[12:58] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:58] Arria Perreault: b. Hippo System
[12:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[12:58] Arria Perreault: Tor has published a FAQ about the use of Hippo System
[12:59] Arria Perreault: (later Trebor)
[12:59] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:59] Arria Perreault: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZNP … t?hl=en_US
[12:59] Pip Torok: where is the FAQ, mme LRA?
[12:59] Pip Torok: tku!
[12:59] Arria Perreault: in the agenda in the forum, the link works
[13:00] Arria Perreault: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZNP … t?hl=en_US
[13:00] Arria Perreault: here is the complete link
[13:00] Arria Perreault: the document is clear
[13:01] Arria Perreault: there is also a thread in the forum
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I open the discussion (for RA members first)
[13:01] Arria Perreault: who wants to speak?
[13:01] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:01] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:02] Pip Torok: is there an urgency to this question? .. I thought it had beeen settled.
[13:02] Pip Torok: done
[13:02] Arria Perreault: the RA has to decide the implementation of Hippo System in the 5 sims of CDS
[13:03] Marian Sapphire is Online
[13:03] Pip Torok: ah ..
[13:03] Arria Perreault: currently a test is made in LA
[13:03] Arria Perreault: the idea is to have it everywhere
[13:04] Soro Dagostino is Online
[13:04] Arria Perreault: the FAQ explains the advantages and disadvantages
[13:04] Pip Torok: may i suggest that we all read the FAQ first and in the meantime table this item?
[13:04] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[13:04] Arria Perreault: well … we have asked this FAQ several meetings ago
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand!!!!
[13:05] Arria Perreault: Fern, Rosie?
[13:05] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[13:05] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:05] Fern Leissa: I would support implimenting the Hippo system for all sims but am willing to wait until the next meeting
[13:06] Fern Leissa: If Pip would like more time to study the FAQ.
[13:06] Arria Perreault: I need a motion and a second
[13:06] Pip Torok: so motion
[13:06] Fern Leissa: second
[13:06] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:06] Pip Torok: aye
[13:06] Bagheera Kristan is Offline
[13:06] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:06] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand again
[13:07] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:07] Arria Perreault: thank you. This point is postponed to the next meeting
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: HELLOOOOO
[13:07] Arria Perreault: Trebor, do you want to wait the next meeting or to speak now?
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: No i want to speak now
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: First off
[13:08] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: I understand it is correct procedure
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: for a citizen to wait until the end of a discussion
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: to voice their opinion
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: HOWEVER how can you table a motion without even asking the a citizen for input before you make that decision?
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: You ask me to wait until the end of the discussion, you end the discussion and dont allow me to speak.
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont get it
[13:09] Arria Perreault: the motion was seconded. we have only postpone the point to a next meeting
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: You asked for the motion before you asked for citizen input
[13:10] Arria Perreault: we want to let our members some time to read the documentation
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: Maybe the citizen input would have made a difference
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: adn the motion wouldnt have needed to be tabled
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: until next meeting
[13:10] Arria Perreault: we take this in two weeks. everybody will have read the FAQ and we will vote
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Youre missing my point madam LRA
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: I should have been able to address the RA
[13:11] Pip Torok concedes Trebor’s point
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: before this motion was even tabled
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: You took administrative action without ciitizen input
[13:11] Arria Perreault: a motion was made as 2 RA members have asked the same thing
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Youre still not getting it
[13:12] Arria Perreault: I think it’s better to have your explanation the day we make the vote
[13:12] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[13:12] Trebor Warcliffe: I should be allowed to address the RA before ANY decision is made by the RA
[13:12] Arria Perreault: yes, I get it
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Calli
[13:12] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor, may I interject something here?
[13:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes please
[13:14] Arria Perreault: Calli
[13:14] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, Trebor is trying to say, I think, that he had indicated he had a comment. YOu asked for a motion and a seconder- it didnt just pop up, but Trebor feels his comment has relevance and RA members should hear it to consider ALONG with the FAQ, not after
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
[13:14] Callipygian Christensen: He si asking you to consider your order of action, to allow the thoughts of a citizen to be placed before the RA
[13:14] Rosie Gray nods in agreement
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I understand that
[13:14] Pip Torok nods
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: If you understanf that than why wasnt I given the opportunity to speak
[13:15] Arria Perreault: in the same time, we intented to postpone this point to the next meeting. your arguments about Hippo are more useful when we vote.
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: you ask me to follow your rules yet you change these rules whenever you care to
[13:15] Callipygian Christensen: Incorrect Madame LRA
[13:16] Pip Torok respectfully disagrees
[13:16] Rosie Gray disagrees with LRA as well
[13:16] Callipygian Christensen: You do not know what this citizen plans to say, so how can you know when they will be useful
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: Arria you have no way of knowing what Im goign to say
[13:16] Arria Perreault: ok. I am sorry
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: EXACTLY
[13:17] Arria Perreault: in the same time, we have voted and one member would like to read the FAQ
[13:17] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:17] Trebor Warcliffe: A vote that was made BEFORE it should have been made
[13:17] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:17] Rosie Gray: I suggest that we hear Trebor
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: Perhaps the members of RA who would like to hear what Trebor has to say could indicate that
[13:18] Rosie Gray: and that we consider our vote and question again afterwards
[13:18] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:18] Pip Torok: i would like to hear trebor
[13:18] Arria Perreault: Trebor, you have the floor
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: First I ask that the vote to table the discussion be removed from teh record until after Im done please.
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: And than a vote to table or not or to vote on the topic can and should be made
[13:19] Rosie Gray: I agree, this is the proper procedure
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: When this part is setttled I will continue, thank you.
[13:19] Arria Perreault waiting for a motion from a RA member
[13:20] Rosie Gray: motion to remove previous motion and vote from the record
[13:20] Pip Torok: second
[13:20] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:20] Daffodil Fargis is Online
[13:20] Pip Torok: aye
[13:20] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:21] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:21] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:21] Arria Perreault: Trebor we listen to you
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you for the floor madame LRA
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: My RA members thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Whether you vote on Hippo today or the next meeting
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: there are a few things I feel need to be brought to your attention
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Hippo is well established in SL
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: It is constantly beign updated and improved
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: It is VERY inexpensive for the amount of work it is capable of
[13:23] Trebor Warcliffe: There are options besided collection of tier that the CDS may find very useful
[13:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Currently since at least May 1st
[13:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Hippo has been in operation in the LA
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Alexi Navarathna, Alexia Carnell, Anna Toussaint, Bromo Ivory, Danton Sideways, Fern Leissa, Mikelo Serevi, Moonrise Azalee, Sonja Strom, Tor Karlsvalt
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: Are all citizens who are currently paying tier in LA since that time
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: There has been multiple opportunities for them to express their dislike of Hippo in the forums if they didnt like it.
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: I feel teh issue can be voted on today but as a citizen I also respect the wants of the RA members to research it a little more.
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: I will say
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: To implement it
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: in all 5 SIMS
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Will be a very arduous task
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: I would like to see if at all possible (if it gets accepted) that we can gather a group of volunteers to help Sudane, Tor, and Anna in this huge task
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you for your time today
[13:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Done
[13:26] Arria Perreault: thank you, Trebor
[13:26] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:26] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:27] Daffodil Fargis is Offline
[13:27] Pip Torok: I appreciate trebors input … and wd also add that it is also important to peruse the FAQ just in case there is some aspect to consideer before the vote
[13:27] Pip Torok: done
[13:27] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:28] Fern Leissa: I would also like to note that Sonja is not here
[13:28] Fern Leissa: I think we can wait two weeks to decide.. as we have waited since May.
[13:29] Arria Perreault: other opinions? Rosie?
[13:30] Arria Perreault: if it is not the case, I need again motion and second
[13:30] Pip Torok: motion to table this agenda item to the next meeting
[13:30] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:31] Arria Perreault: Rosie?
[13:31] Rosie Gray: I was just going to agree with Fern, although I myself am comfortable with the Hippo system, but we need to wait for Sonja anyway
[13:31] Rosie Gray: done
[13:31] Arria Perreault: thank you
13:32] Arria Perreault: I need a second for Pip’s motion
[13:32] Fern Leissa: second
[13:32] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:32] Pip Torok: aye
[13:32] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:32] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:33] Soro Dagostino is Offline
[13:33] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:33] Rosie Gray whispers: sorry
[13:33] Guillaume Mistwalker is Online
[13:33] Arria Perreault: motion carries. we will take this point in the next meeting
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you all, I have to leave for today.
[13:34] Arria Perreault: RA members have homeworks for the next meeting: reading the FAQ
[13:34] Rosie Gray: bye Trebor!
[13:34] josjoha Resident: o/
[13:34] Arria Perreault: good bye, Trebor
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe is Offline
[13:34] Fern Leissa: Bye Trebor
[13:34] Pip Torok: bye Treb!
[13:34] Arria Perreault: Next point
[13:35] Arria Perreault: c. Estate power in CDS
[13:36] Arria Perreault: I have asked the Chancellor to give the list of poeple who have an Estate power on our sims
[13:36] Arria Perreault: It seems that the Secretary of the New Guild has an Estate Power
[13:37] Arria Perreault: I find this strange as the New Guild is seen as a private organization
[13:37] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:37] Arria Perreault: Infortunately Tor did not publish this list
[13:38] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:38] Rosie Gray: Moon, as previous NG secretary
[13:38] Rosie Gray: had estate powers
[13:38] Rosie Gray: and really it would be impossible to carry out the work of the NG without it
[13:38] Rosie Gray: which might answer your question
[13:39] Rosie Gray: done
[13:40] Arria Perreault: I know. But it was before the SC decides that the NG was a totally private organization. Do we give this power to other chairs of other NGO ?
[13:40] Arria Perreault: that’s what I want to know now
[13:40] Rosie Gray: it is necessary for the NG
[13:40] Rosie Gray: but I won’t debate it now
[13:40] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[13:40] Arria Perreault: Calli
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen: Madame LRA, jsut as a point of clarity here, and it may result from a language issue
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen: The SC interprests what exists, so to say ‘the SC decided’ is somewhat incorrect
[13:41] Rosie Gray nods
[13:42] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[13:42] Callipygian Christensen: the SC stated that ‘this is what the NG has always been
[13:42] Arria Perreault: yes, the SC has made an interpretation and this interpretation has some consequences in my opinion
[13:43] Arria Perreault: the NG had a priviligied role in CDS, although it was not a governmental branch
[13:43] Arria Perreault: this role is questionned now
[13:43] Rosie Gray: with respect Arria, you are the only one questioning it
[13:43] Callipygian Christensen: Since the NG was always tasked with sim development, its logical for the Seretary to have estate powers. I think what you are trying to reach is the question of ‘Do we change the whole style in which sim planning and development occurs’
[13:43] Pip Torok questions the questionning of it
[13:44] Arria Perreault: yes, Calli, as advisory board
[13:44] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:44] Arria Perreault: now the Secretary of the Guild is also a RA member
[13:44] Arria Perreault: I see a problem
[13:44] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:45] Rosie Gray: It seems to me that nobody else has expressed this question
[13:45] Rosie Gray: it is only you, Arria that are questioning
[13:45] Rosie Gray: put it as a question to the enitre RA
[13:45] Rosie Gray: and vote on if this question should be pursued
[13:45] Arria Perreault: I want to make people aware of that
[13:45] Rosie Gray: otherwise, please drop the question
[13:45] Michele Mrigesh is Online
[13:46] Pip Torok: I agree with Rosie in this matter
[13:46] Arria Perreault: if there is no motion and no second, there is no vote
[13:46] Rosie Gray: that is correct
[13:46] Rosie Gray: so you might as well drop it
[13:46] Rosie Gray: and stop wasting our time
[13:47] Arria Perreault: as citizen, I will continue to ask Tor to give a list of people who have estate power and the conditions to get that powers
[13:47] Arria Perreault: V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
[13:48] Arria Perreault: – Sims upgrade: Rosie
[13:48] Rosie Gray: yes thank you
[13:48] Rosie Gray: the new Kirche has been installed, and work is being done on it to finish it
[13:48] Rosie Gray: I am working on the crypt
[13:49] Rosie Gray: Sudane is working on the side-chapel
[13:49] Rosie Gray: and Lilith will be doing some gardening
[13:49] Rosie Gray: Tor is preparing a cornerstone to commemoreate
[13:49] Rosie Gray: commemorate*
[13:49] Rosie Gray: other than that, nothing else to report
[13:49] Arria Perreault: and the list?
[13:49] Rosie Gray: what list?
[13:50] Arria Perreault: the list you have published in the forum
[13:50] Rosie Gray: there is a document of suggestions from citizens
[13:50] Rosie Gray: is that what you mean?
[13:50] Rosie Gray: yes, that is there
[13:50] Arria Perreault: yes. how do you intend to work on this list?
[13:51] Rosie Gray: I had thought that once the NG gets organized again
[13:51] Arria Perreault: can we set some priorities here in the RA?
[13:51] Rosie Gray: that we could go over the suggestions
[13:51] Rosie Gray: and make some recommendations to the RA for proceeding
[13:52] Rosie Gray: it’s a bit premature now
[13:52] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:52] Arria Perreault: – Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
[13:53] Pip Torok: yes … first of all can i request that every citizen greets a newcomer to the 5 sims …
[13:53] Pip Torok: and generally make him/herself sociable to the newcomer
[13:53] Pip Torok: so that they feeel AT HOME here
[13:54] Pip Torok: secondly .. i want to organise meetings with groups of potential new citizens
[13:54] Pip Torok: either here in CDS (eg the poetry sessions) or “abroad” …
[13:55] Arria Perreault: potential citizen? friends of CDS?
[13:55] Pip Torok: thirdly i wish to keep in touch with CDS citizens who have suggestions …
[13:55] Pip Torok: done
[13:55] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:55] Pip Torok: any questions/comments?
[13:56] Arria Perreault: well, I have a suggestion for the marketing of the CDS
[13:56] Pip Torok: I’m all ears!
[13:56] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:56] Arria Perreault: I did not work on events these last times, but I have made an interesting experience in the Monastery
[13:56] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:57] Rosie Gray: I was wondering where the duties of Pip on this and the duties of our Chancellor and PIO overlap
[13:58] Pip Torok: well i see them as coalescing rather than as overlapping .. ill make sure there are no “holes” … nor any duplication of work
[13:58] Rosie Gray: okay thanks Pip
[13:59] Rosie Gray: may I ask what it is you’ve done in the MOnastery, Arria?
[13:59] Valibrarian Gregg is Offline
[13:59] Arria Perreault: well Pip has mentionned things he intended to make. we can all do that. the RA can also take decisions and the Executive has to implemente these decision
[13:59] Pip Torok: i shd mention that trebor has expressed great interest and ill want him at our first meeting
[14:00] Arria Perreault: you can also make a commission, Pip
[14:00] Pip Torok: true … tho ill concentrate on the work of the “commission” rather than on the fact of it ….
[14:00] Arria Perreault: I am working on some improvements in the Monastery currently
[14:01] Marian Sapphire is Offline
[14:01] Pip Torok: can you tell me (now or later) what was interesting about the Monastery experince, mme lra?
[14:02] Zoe Foodiboo is Offline
[14:02] Arria Perreault: I have add the Monastery in the Destination Guide of Second Life
[14:02] Arria Perreault: here is the link
[14:02] Pip Torok: ah …
[14:02] Arria Perreault: http://secondlife.com/destination/the-monastery
[14:02] Fern Leissa: I saw that

[14:02] Pip Torok: thank you, mme lra
[14:02] Arria Perreault: it has a great impact on traffic
[14:03] Arria Perreault: I think that we should choose several places in CDS and add them in this list
[14:03] Pip Torok: anyway .. i need to concentrate on the result: MORE active voting and thinking citizens for this democracy…
[14:04] Rosie Gray: yay Pip!
[14:04] Fern Leissa: What about Rosie’s new church?
[14:04] Rosie Gray: wb Moonrise
[14:04] Pip Torok: what about it fern?
[14:04] Fern Leissa: On the Destination Guide
[14:04] Moonrise Azalee: (sorry)
[14:04] Pip Torok: ah! …
[14:05] Rosie Gray: Pat made a suggestion about having some kind of event around the new church
[14:05] Arria Perreault: we should make a list of places of interests in CDS and encourage citizen to add their place if they are conform to the conditions
[14:05] Pip Torok: well its important to think then act on what will DRAW potential citizens to us …
[14:05] Pip Torok: … the look n feel of the whole …
[14:05] Pip Torok: … our democracy …
[14:05] Pip Torok: .. the commiunity and us lovely folk in it! etc
[14:06] Fern Leissa: Hey! What about the RA meetings ?
[14:06] Pip Torok: of course .. if thats a drawing point…
[14:06] Arria Perreault: Rosie, I think it would be a good idea. I though that a serie of concert classical music would be a good thing
[14:06] Moonrise Azalee giggles
[14:06] Moonrise Azalee: /raises hand
[14:06] Arria Perreault: Moonrize
[14:07] Pip Torok: true, tho i’d like Tor second opinion (and trebs) about what will DRAW citizens in
[14:07] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand too
[14:07] Arria Perreault: Moonrize first
[14:07] Moonrise Azalee: I worry about the open level of the forum. all the inner arguments can be read. perhaps some of the areas of the forum could be kept private for members only so that prospective new members arent frightened
[14:07] Arria Perreault: then Calli
[14:08] Moonrise Azalee: At least the meeting transcripts
[14:08] Guillaume Mistwalker is Offline
[14:09] Arria Perreault: all what we say here is public. the information channel for newcomers should be the portal, not the forum
[14:09] Pip Torok: I take yr point, M … tho by RA UK Parliamentary standards or Univ student meeting standards, CDS is still quite tame
[14:09] Moonrise Azalee: Yes. but all people are able to read the forums
[14:10] Moonrise Azalee: and some of the things there are quite negative and not much a draw when trying to show new peeps how ‘great’ we all are, lol
[14:10] Arria Perreault: it’s transparency
[14:10] Fern Leissa:

[14:10] Pip Torok: but the point about fright and bad-feeling is well taken
[14:10] Rosie Gray: it’s transparency alright, which is not very appealing to someone considering joining us
[14:10] Moonrise Azalee: Sure, transparency is important, but inner discussions about issues that seem so volatile and ugly do not serve us well
[14:11] Moonrise Azalee: People reading accusations against our own Councilor , the large amount of funds etc.
[14:11] Pip Torok: when theyre nonproductive and go round in circles i 100% agree, M
[14:11] Garidin Resident is Online
[14:12] Zoe Foodiboo is Online
[14:12] Moonrise Azalee: I think the forums , at least the categories other than Welcome , should be left for people who are members of the community already.
[14:12] Moonrise Azalee: The way many, many forums are.
[14:12] Pip Torok: perhaps one of the points when i introduce the concept of democracy is the possibility of some sort of contention
[14:12] Moonrise Azalee: that is all
[14:12] Callipygian Christensen waits (my comment is sort of an addendum to this one)
[14:12] Arria Perreault: thank you Moonrise
[14:12] Arria Perreault: Calli
[14:12] Callipygian Christensen: I’ll point out the elephant behind the curtain here. You need to define what type of new citizens you want, because frankly, ime, you don’t want the bulk of SL residents here. If a group of a dozen active people who wanted to really get involved apppeared, mostof the old gaurd of CDS would soil their undies
[14:13] Moonrise Azalee nods
[14:13] Rosie Gray laughs aloud
[14:14] Callipygian Christensen: and its fine to not want radical change, but start out from an honest point of ‘we only wnat to atttract people who ‘fit in’
[14:14] Pip Torok: Intersting … i wonder how much of an old guard that makes me (

))
[14:14] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[14:14] Pip Torok: but I WANT active thinking discussing citizens ….
[14:15] Callipygian Christensen: because luring in a lot of people who want a pretty garden and a nice ‘homeowners’ assocatiaon’ sort of gov’t just means lots of short term ‘citizen’s and more bad publicity for the CDS
[14:15] Rosie Gray: hmmm
[14:15] Pip Torok: 100% agree Calli
[14:15] Rosie Gray: on the other hand, it could put off some people who don’t realize how much negativity has gone one here
[14:16] Rosie Gray: who DO want to be productive members of an active community
[14:16] Callipygian Christensen: Razzy’s comment about the forum’s is valid..but Ithink they should stay open..because they are a fairly honest view of what it’s like to try to fucntion here
[14:16] Pip Torok: yes … but when ppl disagree, unfortunately there is always the possibility that tempers are lost
[14:16] Rosie Gray: that’s true, and reading all of them takes a certain level of dedication
[14:17] Callipygian Christensen: Pip, with all respect, it’s moe than just the lost tempers- it’s the apparent intransigence of the culture
[14:17] Pip Torok: for most RL and SL ppl imo direct democracy is a new concept…
[14:17] Zoe Foodiboo is Offline
[14:17] Arria Perreault is Offline
[14:17] Garidin Resident is Offline
[14:17] Pip Torok: we’re not taught it in many schools …
[14:17] Arria Perreault is Online
[14:18] Pip Torok: its not in the workplace or even union meetings
[14:18] Pip Torok: .. its CERTAINLY not in the Boardroom
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I hope that someone can paste the transcript to me
[14:19] Pip Torok: .. in fact the university studemt meeting is oftem the only point of experience for many
[14:19] Pip Torok ends his sermon and apologises!
[14:19] Arria Perreault: thank you Rosie
[14:20] Fern Leissa gave you RA Mtg. 2011-08-14.
[14:20] Callipygian Christensen: Pip, my point is that if CDS is to be an educational place about democracy, then target only those people who are interested in being active at that level..but dont be surprised that its a very small portion of the SL residents
[14:20] Arria Perreault: thank you Fern
[14:20] Arria Perreault:

)
[14:20] Fern Leissa: yw

[14:20] Pip Torok: I take your point .. thank you for reinforcing it
[14:20] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[14:20] Arria Perreault: maybe we should make marketing outside SL
[14:21] Callipygian Christensen: (and frankly, right now, this democracy runs very much like RL..half the current citizens dont read the forums or participate, not even to vote)
[14:21] Arria Perreault: in the Web
[14:21] Pip Torok: exactly … so an inner transformation into a working and vibrant democracy is close to my heart …
[14:22] Callipygian Christensen: and on that note, RL calls me away
[14:22] Arria Perreault: maybe we could make a google campaign
[14:22] Rosie Gray waves to Calli
[14:22] Callipygian Christensen: I am off on vacation..see you all in a week or so
[14:22] Fern Leissa: Bye Calli
[14:22] Moonrise Azalee: Bye Calli
[14:22] Rosie Gray: have fun!
[14:22] Arria Perreault: it’s not that expensive
[14:22] Arria Perreault: Bye Calli
[14:22] Pip Torok:

… mme lra if there are no further questions, shall we move on?
[14:22] Arria Perreault: yes
[14:22] Rosie Gray: yes please!
[14:23] Arria Perreault: VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements
[14:23] Arria Perreault: any points here?
[14:23] Pip Torok: what about “Sima Animation”????
[14:23] Pip Torok: Sims
[14:24] Arria Perreault: I have worked mostly on this idea of destination guide
[14:24] Arria Perreault: I will work on events soon
[14:25] Arria Perreault: IX. Adjournment
[14:25] Arria Perreault: a motion?
[14:25] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[14:26] Fern Leissa: second
[14:26] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:26] Pip Torok: aye
[14:26] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:26] Arria Perreault: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 28 August 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. INFORMATIONS

–

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. Hippo System: informations sent by the Treasurer
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3456&p=17848#p17846
b. CDS asset security issues (20 min)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)
a. CDS Portal update

V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

Transcript

[12:22] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:22] Pip Torok: tks
[12:22] Arria Perreault: we are quorate. we can beginn
[12:23] Arria Perreault: I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[12:23] Arria Perreault: do you agree with this agenda?
[12:23] Sonja Strom: yes
[12:23] Pip Torok: just to move V2 a little earlier if possib le?
[12:24] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip
[12:24] Pip Torok: otherwise yes
[12:24] Arria Perreault: thx
[12:24] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:24] Arria Perreault: Rosie and Fern have requested a 7-day vote
[12:25] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items. (non-RA members)
[12:25] Arria Perreault: nobody is in the attendance
[12:25] Arria Perreault: II. INFORMATIONS
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I don’t have any informations
[12:26] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)
[12:26] Arria Perreault: nobody is in the attendance. Maybe you have some citizen concerns?
[12:27] Pip Torok: i have talked to 2-3 new citizens … they have general questions but little more … that may change in future
[12:27] Arria Perreault: nice
[12:27] Arria Perreault: do you think we should organize an event to welcome them?
[12:28] Pip Torok: yes … i suggest tanzhaus where ppl can sit ask danc and whatever to music…
[12:28] Arria Perreault: is it your house?
[12:29] Pip Torok: yes … in nfs outside the walls
[12:29] Arria Perreault: nice
[12:29] Arria Perreault: do you care about the music or do you want me I help you?
[12:30] Pip Torok: no thank you .. it is possible we may have naftali there
[12:30] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[12:30] Arria Perreault: any other concerns?
[12:31] Sonja Strom: has there been an announcement about this meeting to the CDS group?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: no soory
[12:31] Sonja Strom: I saw it in the Forum…
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I will do it now
[12:31] Pip Torok: not yet … i wanted to arrange a date with naftali first
[12:31] Sonja Strom: maybe we should make one now.
[12:31] Arria Perreault: in the forum, yes, but not in the group
[12:31] Sonja Strom: oh, sorry, I meant this RA Meeting.
[12:31] Pip Torok: sorry
[12:32] Pip Torok: i’m sure the storm has put most citizens off because of lag
[12:32] Sonja Strom: Arria, will you do that, or would you like for me to do it?
[12:33] You decline Praetorium, Colonia Nova (28, 161, 41) from A group member named Arria Perreault.
[12:33] Sonja Strom: Ah, done ~ thanks :-)

[12:33] Pip Torok:

[12:33] Arria Perreault: the notice has been sent.
[12:34] Arria Perreault: yes, I think that many people are not there because of the storm
[12:34] Pip Torok: and received loud and clear!
[12:34] josjoha Resident: hi everyone !!
[12:34] Arria Perreault: Hi Jos ㋡
[12:34] Pip Torok: hi josjoha
[12:34] Arria Perreault: welcome
[12:34] Sonja Strom: hi jos!
[12:34] josjoha Resident: ty
[12:34] Arria Perreault: we are under CDS concerns
[12:34] Sonja Strom: welcome

[12:35] Pip Torok: weve already done citizens concers jos
[12:35] josjoha Resident: ah oki
[12:35] Arria Perreault: do you have some concerns to express?
[12:35] josjoha Resident thinks
[12:35] Arria Perreault: Hi Mizou?
[12:35] josjoha Resident: nothing special, I hope everyone is in good spirits and healthy of body and mind
[12:35] Pip Torok: hi Mizou
[12:35] Arria Perreault: welcome ㋡
[12:35] Pip Torok: thank you … we do our best
[12:36] Sonja Strom: :-)

[12:36] Arria Perreault: we are under “citizen concerns”
[12:36] josjoha Resident: hey Mizou
[12:36] Arria Perreault: do you have some concerns to express?
[12:36] Sonja Strom: hello Mizou, welcome :-)

[12:36] Mizou Vavoom: Hi Sonja
[12:37] Arria Perreault: no other citizen concerns?
[12:37] josjoha Resident: 2 poseballs on this chair
[12:38] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[12:38] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:38] Pip Torok: (for split personalities perhaps?:)
[12:38] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. Hippo System: informations sent by the Treasurer
[12:38] josjoha Resident: well .. we had an interesting meeting in the NG of course
[12:38] Sonja Strom: there is no poseball on the seat next to me —
[12:38] Mizou Vavoom nods in agreement
[12:38] Sonja Strom: maybe it could go to there

[12:38] Arria Perreault: Jos, do you want to say something?
[12:39] Sonja Strom considers making a motion about this
[12:39] josjoha Resident: well, … what we call in the Netherlands “taking yourselve seriously”
[12:39] josjoha Resident: (yes i could say a short thing)
[12:39] Arria Perreault: go ahead Jos
[12:39] josjoha Resident: taking yourselve seriously means that if together was made a charter or a groundrules and principles,
[12:40] josjoha Resident: that you will take that prior effort seriously, and not throw it out too easily on an unrelated issue
[12:40] Pip Torok: hi Gwyn!
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: \
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn waves
[12:40] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn ㋡
[12:40] Mizou Vavoom: Hi Gwyn
[12:40] josjoha Resident: but then keep to the charter “take your own charter decision serious”
[12:40] Arria Perreault: welcome ㋡
[12:40] Sonja Strom: hi Gwyneth
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe hi all :-)

[12:40] Sonja Strom: we are listening to josjoha
[12:40] josjoha Resident: and if it does not work well, go back to that debate on charters, constitutions and all that ‘big stuff’ and debate it again, and maybe alter it.
[12:41] josjoha Resident: This is what I wanted to say only, I have *no* opinion about whether the NG should be independent or not, just say that “we should take ourselves seriously, if we make charters and principles.” ty and everyone good luck, ty.
[12:41] Arria Perreault: thank you, Jos
[12:42] Sonja Strom: Thank you, Jos . . . I agree.
[12:42] Arria Perreault: does anyone want to say something? (still in citizen concerns)
[12:42] Arria Perreault: (I also agree about this principle, Jos)
[12:43] Pip Torok: yes … my feeling is that the NG shd arrange the sec issie as a matter of highest priority .. for the sake of CDS in general
[12:43] josjoha Resident: Arria, ty, it seems to be quite widely felt; and i really do mean that the debate about NG independence is as far as I am concerned totally in the open.
[12:44] Arria Perreault: yes, I think that it is an issue that has to be solved
[12:44] Sonja Strom: The New Guild does now need to find a new Chairperson. Is there any way we could help with that?
[12:45] Pip Torok: only as individual citizens i suggest
[12:45] Arria Perreault: as RA, I am affraid that we can’t
[12:45] Sonja Strom: makes sense
[12:45] Pip Torok: for example i am encouraging one person to arrange an NG meeting and put himself forward
[12:45] Sonja Strom: ok
[12:46] Arria Perreault: as RA, we can only handle the laws (existing or non-existing laws) about expansion and infrastructure keeping
[12:47] Arria Perreault: I hope that someone will call this meeting
[12:47] Pip Torok: I will check with this person to make sure that at least someone does
[12:47] Arria Perreault: other opinions or concerns?
[12:48] Arria Perreault: thx Pip
[12:48] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. Hippo System: informations sent by the Treasurer
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Sudane has sent a message to me and she also published an information in the forums
[12:49] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3456&p=17848#p17846
[12:49] Arria Perreault: ‘m going to ask the RA to delay this decision for a few weeks. We are having some serious problems with some of our residents being able to pay their boxes.

Both Mizou Vavoom (1 parcel) and Danton Sideways (2 parcels) have been unable to get their boxes to accept their payments. When paid, the boxes simply return the money to them, and the expiration date does not advance. We have checked to make sure that the exact amount is being paid, to no avail. We are trying some other things to try and solve this problem.

Please understand that despite the claims of the Hippo company, this box system is really designed for use with rentals, and is only being “adapted” by us for use with owned parcels. It is NOT a smooth fit. While I will not deny the many great benefits of this system, the fact remains that it’s using one tool to do another tool’s job.

Until these problems are sorted out, and we experience a few months of entirely trouble-free operation, I strongly urge the RA to postpone this decision.
[12:49] Arria Perreault: This is the message of Sudane in the forum
[12:50] Arria Perreault: Infortunately, she is not here to give us more informations
[12:50] Mizou Vavoom: For myself the problem has been sorted after about 2 weeks
[12:50] Mizou Vavoom: I presume same for Danton
[12:50] Arria Perreault: Mizou, can you inform us?
[12:51] Arria Perreault: is it solved?
[12:51] Pip Torok: wd it help if you cd tell Sudane how you solved the problem Mizou?
[12:51] Mizou Vavoom: Yes, the Hippo system was not accepting payments for about 2 weeks, i informed sudane and she worked on th eproblem, it is sorted since this week. Thank u
[12:51] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:52] Mizou Vavoom: I didn t solve the problem myself one day it just worked again
[12:52] Pip Torok: so presumably there is simply the implemenattion of Hippo throught CDS
[12:52] Arria Perreault: the question is now? can we vote on Hippo system or not
[12:52] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:52] Pip Torok: (perhaps Sudanic magic behind the scenes?:)
[12:53] Mizou Vavoom: Yes lol
[12:53] Pip Torok: I feel that we can …
[12:53] Arria Perreault: Sonja?
[12:54] Pip Torok: I Propose that the Hippo system be implemented as speedily as practical
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Pip, can we say so?
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Hippo system is implemented in CDS to collect tiers as soon as all technical issues are solved?
[12:55] Pip Torok: its general enough to give carte blanche to all parties imo … and it is noncontroversial
[12:55] Arria Perreault: or do you mean the same?
[12:55] Pip Torok: i mean the same!
[12:55] Pip Torok:
[12:55] Arria Perreault: good
[12:56] Arria Perreault: I need a second for your motion ㋡
[12:56] Sonja Strom: I’m sorry, what was your question for me?
[12:57] Arria Perreault: the question was: can we vote now on Hippo system?
[12:57] Sonja Strom: I could vote on it.
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Pip has made a motion: ” I Propose that the Hippo system be implemented as speedily as practical”
[12:57] Pip Torok: no second to my proposal btw
[12:57] Arria Perreault: and we need a second
[12:58] Sonja Strom: I second
[12:58] Arria Perreault: vote
[12:58] Pip Torok: aye
[12:59] Sonja Strom: aye
[12:59] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:59] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[12:59] Arria Perreault: there are 7-day votes though
[13:00] Arria Perreault: thank you. I will inform Sudane and Tor
[13:00] Arria Perreault: b. CDS asset security issues
[13:00] Arria Perreault: for this question, I really think we need Sudane
[13:00] Arria Perreault: there is a thread in the forum
[13:00] Pip Torok: (if its not too late “practical” in the motion should have been “practicable” .. I hope that didnt change the meaning…
[13:01] Arria Perreault: ok, Pip
[13:02] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486
[13:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn rwads
[13:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *reads
[13:03] Arria Perreault: Sudane has made a proposal to solve the issue of the CDS assets in case she can’t access the CDS account (Rudeen)
[13:04] Arria Perreault: the solution is a scripted device
[13:04] Arria Perreault: Timo will elp Sudane to program it
[13:04] Arria Perreault: help*
[13:05] Pip Torok: imo I see this as a thoughout and practical SL-based plan that we should encourage
[13:05] Pip Torok: thought-out
[13:05] Arria Perreault: 1. The asset owner will rez a box and place several notecards into it (along with the script). One notecard will have the owner-alt avatar names and passwords. Another notecard will have the following message in it, where the numbered citizens are actual persons designated by the RA:

The password consists of two parts separated by @ character. The first part is teddybear and the second one is known by the following named residents:
citizen 1
citizen 2
citizen 3
citizen 4

A third notecard might be a test.

The second part of the password would be conveyed to each of the 4 citizens *outside* of SL, such as by email, so that no one system held the complete password. If the second password was rathaus, then the complete password would be teddybear@rathaus.

2. The script in the box will detect the asset owner’s presence in SL (Not the alts. If the owner is present, we know that the community has access to the alts). If the owner is not in-world for 2 weeks, the box will send the owner an IM and
[13:06] Arria Perreault: 2. The script in the box will detect the asset owner’s presence in SL (Not the alts. If the owner is present, we know that the community has access to the alts). If the owner is not in-world for 2 weeks, the box will send the owner an IM and an email of warning.
[13:06] Arria Perreault: 3. If the owner remains absent for another week, it will send another IM and email of warning.
[13:06] Arria Perreault: 4. If the owner remains absent yet a fourth week, it will IM and email to the owner the final warning. It will also IM the names of the qualified individuals on the notecard the information that they must plan to gather for the password retrieval process. It will also IM to each of them the message with the construction and first part of the password. Any appearance by the owner in world during all this time will reset the timer and stop this process. The timer can also be suspended manually should the owner be on a planned absence from SL for more than a month.
[13:07] Arria Perreault: 5. To accomplish the owner alt password retrieval, after the 4th week timer, all members listed on the notecard must gather together, at the same time, at the box. Any one of them types the password into open chat so that the box can hear. They will then all touch the box, with password and touches all happening within a short time interval, like one minute. Once that happens, the notecard with the secret information will be delivered to all of them. This retrieval process can be refined as the device development proceeds.
[13:07] Arria Perreault: the reactions were positive in the forum
[13:08] Arria Perreault: there was one question about the time of the whole process
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Answer of Sudane: we just keep a US$ balance in Rudeen’s account which will match the timing needs of the rest of the plan
[13:09] Arria Perreault: we have already postpone this issue because Sudane was not there
[13:09] Arria Perreault: do you think we should postpone again?
[13:10] Pip Torok: my feeling is that we regrettable should postpone
[13:10] Arria Perreault: second?
[13:10] Pip Torok: perhaps a proposal encouraging the planning?
[13:10] Sonja Strom: has Sudane said she plans to be here for the discussion in the RA?
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I have asked her to come. I did not get an answer.
[13:11] Arria Perreault: in the same time, she is problably concerned by the storm
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. She’s in Irene’s path; maybe she is suffering power losses?
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right…
[13:11] Pip Torok: (Irene-problems possibly)
[13:11] Sonja Strom: could be
[13:12] Sonja Strom: Does anyone here have anything they want to say about this topic?
[13:12] Arria Perreault: we can discuss, of course
[13:12] Pip Torok: I propose that plannin g on asset security should be encouraged
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* and wonders if she can add anything
[13:13] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, you have the floor
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat raised in the forums the concern about security, and hacking and so forth
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I just wanted to say two things…
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Timo is not really a newbie in programming. So he’ll do whatever is technically possible to deal with eventual security flaws. And he has teh expertise and knowledge of doing so.
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, sure, there are no 100%-safe solutions,
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LL can also introduce permission bugs. But — these are very rare!
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which comes to 2)
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) When evaluating what is more safe — not having a fallback plan if some of the asset owners die,
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or being overly worried about hackers and LL permission problems,
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the first case is actually more worrying!
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just take a look at the current situation.
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane is not dead (hehe) but the storm might have thrown down the power lines
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that she only logs in in a month or two..
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, an asset owner might really have lots of reasons for not being available
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To conclude, I’d certainly like to have the RA approve *something* in that area, even if it’s only “official sanctioning” for Timo to finish development and do some tests with the RA and the EXec.
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, thank you
[13:17] Pip Torok wonders whether a buddy-system might be practicable
[13:18] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, do you suggest that we should first give the go to start the developement and then approve the final script when tested?
[13:18] Sonja Strom *raises hand*
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I personalluy don’t know if Timo has done any pºublic demos yet… has he?
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He might also be concerned that he starts on such a project without any sanctioning… it could be a waste of time for him
[13:19] Arria Perreault: as far as I know, he did not
[13:20] Arria Perreault: I think also that we should approved twice: launc and final product
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But with at least some nice patting on the back from official sources, he’ll know that we’re taking the suggestion seriously and that he’s most welcome to develop a prototype
[13:20] Arria Perreault: Sonja, you have the floor
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry — I’ll hiush now…. I need to have dinner anyway — and will return as soon as possible ㋡ )
[13:20] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[13:20] Pip Torok agrees with gwyn
[13:20] Sonja Strom: thank you, Gwyn!
[13:21] Sonja Strom: bon apetite!
[13:21] Arria Perreault: bye Gwyn ㋡
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be right back
[13:21] Sonja Strom: I am very thankful for all of the thought and work that has gone into this issue.
[13:21] Sonja Strom: Not the least of thanks should go to Sudane and Timo for all they have put into it.
[13:21] Sonja Strom: In principle I agree with the concepts,
[13:22] Sonja Strom: but I also do wonder about hacking.
[13:22] Sonja Strom: For example, around a year ago I had the experience of my entire inventory being copied by a bot, out of my control.
[13:22] Sonja Strom: I reported this to Linden Lab immediately.
[13:22] Pip Torok: !!
[13:23] Sonja Strom: I also talked with Gwyneth about it, to better know how I should respond –
[13:23] Sonja Strom: probably she will remember.
[13:23] Sonja Strom: I am fairly sure LL did something with the information, but I’m not sure what – I never received any response from anyone about it.
[13:23] Sonja Strom: I think what Gwyneth has said about security issues makes sense, but things also change over time.
[13:23] Sonja Strom: Even if now a system could be almost completely secure, if no changes were made in it that might no longer be the case two years from now.
[13:24] Sonja Strom: Maybe we can work this all out in a way that makes sense, so I really am in support of the concept.
[13:24] Sonja Strom: All of this said, I also wonder if another way to approach this concept would be for there to be an Assistant Treasurer.
[13:24] Pip Torok: (hi Tor)
[13:24] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[13:24] Sonja Strom: Hi Tor.
[13:24] Arria Perreault: Hi Tor
[13:24] Mizou Vavoom: hi tor
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Everyone.
[13:25] Arria Perreault: we are takling about the proposal of Sudane about security assets
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ok
[13:26] Arria Perreault: thank you Sonja
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Her plan is a good one, but naturally has to be tested.
[13:27] Arria Perreault: now the question is: should we postpone the topic until Sudane can attend the meeting or do you have a motion (like a go to start on subject to test and regualr check)?
[13:27] Pip Torok: AFAIK its also a first for SL …
[13:28] Arria Perreault: I had also the following question: is there any costs or is there a volunteer work?
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we should postpone it. I think she has most up to date info on progress made. I think Timo is working on the script. However, I would suggest that we make it madidory that at least by the middle of evey term, the chancellor certify that that the system is working.
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: as far as I know nobody has asked for compensation.
[13:29] Arria Perreault: yes, Tor, we have to vote a text in this direction. I tend to postpone the topic too
[13:29] Sonja Strom: Thank you Tor, that makes sense.
[13:29] Tor Karlsvalt: good
[13:29] Arria Perreault: I just need a motion and a second ;-)
[13:30] Sonja Strom: anyone else here want to say anything about this subject?
[13:30] Pip Torok: I propose a motion along the lines of Tor’s suggestion
[13:30] Sonja Strom: I move this RA discussion be continued to the next meeting.
[13:31] Arria Perreault: I have 2 motions now ㋡
[13:31] Sonja Strom: what is the first motion?
[13:31] Pip Torok: (deadly embrace of motions!:)
[13:31] Arria Perreault: one is to postpone (Sonja)
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:31] Arria Perreault: Pip suggest that we vote Tor’s proposal, but the text has to be written
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe then we can wait.
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I doubt if this is near completion.
[13:32] Sonja Strom: Tor, do you want us to include any more in this motion than that the discussion be continued to the next meeting?
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: no, don’t think so.
[13:33] Sonja Strom: ok
[13:33] Sonja Strom: I second Pip’s motion.
[13:33] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:33] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:33] Pip Torok: aye
[13:33] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:33] Arria Perreault: motions carries
[13:34] Arria Perreault: there are 7-day votes though
[13:34] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:34] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:34] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:34] Pip Torok: mme lra may i present my report now then leave?
[13:35] Arria Perreault: in this case, we can adjourn the meeting
[13:35] Arria Perreault: after you leave, we don’t have quorum anymore
[13:35] Pip Torok: i thought you might wish to discuss issues … but i bow to your decision…
[13:36] Mizou Vavoom i sleaving discreetly
[13:36] Arria Perreault: we can discuss of course, but not vote
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: by Mizou
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: bye
[13:36] Arria Perreault: bye Mizou ㋡
[13:37] Pip Torok: bye Mizou
[13:37] Arria Perreault: before we adjourn, I am pleased to announce our Chancellor that the RA hs voted the introduction of Hippo System
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ok
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: it should work out ok
[13:38] Pip Torok: the report is short … first now that we have new citizens can i ask all citizens to welcome them and be sociable to them …
[13:38] Arria Perreault: Mizou told us thtat her issue was solved
[13:38] Sonja Strom: ok :-)
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:38] Pip Torok: second I am arranging a “hello” party and will give details later
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:38] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip, good idea
[13:38] Arria Perreault: we love parties
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i think we have three new citizens
[13:39] Sonja Strom: yay!
[13:39] Arria Perreault: what are thir names?
[13:39] Arria Perreault: their*
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I have met them all and they seem very nice.
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: one is from Tennesee
[13:39] Pip Torok: thirdly .. i am using the poetry sessions to bring in new citizens but i welcome suggestions from all quarters .. i have a few of my own btw
[13:39] Pip Torok: done
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: one is from Sweden
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: and one is from donno
[13:39] Pip Torok: Mothercare Warden
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:40] Arria Perreault: it would be good to have a updated citizen list
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I agree and we need one soon anyway.
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: oh we are planning Oktoberfest
[13:40] Arria Perreault: Sudane told me it’s easy to do with Hippo System
[13:40] Arria Perreault: great news, Tor
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: have Damian Carbonell, Noma Falta and Savannah Coronet lined up
[13:41] Pip Torok: if all agree, I will take my leave now …
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: and Cindy hopfully Naf
[13:41] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: ok pip see u in a bit
[13:41] Arria Perreault: I will come too
[13:41] Pip Torok: thank you goodbye
[13:41] Arria Perreault: (with some french texts)
[13:41] Sonja Strom: bye Pip
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I have feelers out for a traditional german folk dj or act
[13:42] Pip Torok: ah ..!
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: seems those are hard to come by.
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: well I have an idea for a french singer btw
[13:42] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: heard her at the norwegian memorial earlier this month.
[13:42] Sonja Strom: :-)
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I tried my darnest to get Tiroler Eck but they just don’t respond
[13:43] Arria Perreault: I have maybe some names. can I give them?
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Anyone hear of Max Kleeze
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think he is german, but does jazz.
[13:43] Arria Perreault: no
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: well we are planning a parade to open the event on sat Sept 24th
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: start at the Quay
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: mostly walking
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: costumes flags etc
[13:44] Sonja Strom: Max Kleene I know a little.
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: we want to get moon to be the grand Marshall
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: then on the platz we have a little ceremony
[13:45] You decline Club Bella Luz ~ Windy Shores, Windy Shores (177, 155, 22) from A group member named guapitaa Eternal.
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie made a really nice medal for her.
[13:45] Sonja Strom: great!
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: i thnk I have it.
[13:45] Arria Perreault: great
[13:45] Arria Perreault: Pip has to make the speech
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:46] Arria Perreault: in the name of the RA
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: can you guys cam on the table I rezzed it there
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:46] Sonja Strom: I see it.
[13:47] Sonja Strom: It looks very nice
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe we should desplay it here for a bit before or after
[13:47] Sonja Strom: also quite Bavarian, but I guess that makes sense
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt a accepté votre envoi.
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: it looks good pinned to someone
[13:48] Sonja Strom: I can imagine that, yes.
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: I’ll admitt on the table there it is sort of small
[13:48] Arria Perreault: It’s only a suggestion. I got a request from the manager. The singer has made a concernt in the Amphitheater in the past. She is good.
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: well we wanted to move some events around.
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Anna wants to do a bumpercar concert with cindy and naf.
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I guess that went very well last year.
[13:49] Arria Perreault: nice medal
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: the wildcard is Naf.
[13:50] Sonja Strom: yes, it was fun last year :-)
[13:50] Arria Perreault: elegant even, with the ribbon
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: If I can I might just have a 20s-30s waltz night at the old bowl terrace
[13:51] Arria Perreault: Tor, can I have a pic of the medal? I will open a page on the Portal (Hall of Fame)
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: oh good idea
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I wonder if Rosie has a good pic.
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: or maybe we can put it on a pillow or something.
[13:52] Arria Perreault: yes, good suggestion
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: we could desplay it here
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: make a case for it.
[13:52] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: so the ball will be the 2nd of Oct.
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Calli will dj.
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: i think that was set for noon or one slt.
[13:53] Arria Perreault: can you publish all dates on the forums: Oktoberfest, ball, …
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: we want to have events so europeans and N Americans can come.
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: sure, I still want to fill in some
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: oh we are going to do a ballon fest
[13:54] Arria Perreault: maybe the start and the end
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: anna wants to do sort of a warmup and then a race from LA to the high tower on the schloss.
[13:54] Arria Perreault: I am in holidays from 8th to 14th oct
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: oh lucky you
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: i love Oct. but alas I have to do ratings that month
[13:55] Arria Perreault: maybe I will miss a part of Oktoberfest
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: we are doing from the 24th through the 2nd
[13:56] Arria Perreault: good
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the real one in Munich is from the 13th to the 3rd.
[13:56] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we move to the Taverna to join Pip
[13:56] Sonja Strom: I second
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yes, almost time
[13:56] Arria Perreault: I have to find out my texts ㋡
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:57] Arria Perreault: thank you for all these informations Tor
[13:57] Arria Perreault: I will publish the transcript until now
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: see you down in LA
[13:58] Arria Perreault: see you

Summary

The RA voted to implement the Hippo System as speedily as practicable.
3 aye
Vote subject to 7-day votes

The RA has discussed the topic “Security Assets” and then has voted to postponet it to the next meeting
3 aye
Vote subject to 7-day votes

Permalink.

RA Meeting 9 September 2011

RA Agenda 09th September 2011, 12:00 AM SLT, Praetorium

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. INFORMATIONS

a. CDS Portal update (information about the current project, no legislative action needed)

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. CDS asset security issues (20 min)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486

IV. NEW ITEMS (and priorities of the term) (updated)
–

V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

Transcript

[12:03] Arria Perreault: we are quorate
[12:03] Arria Perreault: can we start?
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Yeah.. I know the feelin
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Yes Arria

Great
[12:03] Arria Perreault: Rosie and Sonja have asked for a 7-day vote
[12:03] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:04] josjoha Resident: ty
[12:04] Arria Perreault: I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[12:04] Pip Torok: I imagine most citizens are “celebrating” ..
[12:04] Arria Perreault: do you agree with the current agenda? do you want to add something?
[12:04] Fern Leissa: I am find with the agenda as is
[12:04] Arria Perreault: Pip?
[12:05] Pip Torok: yes
[12:05] Pip Torok: i agree with the agenda
[12:05] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:05] Arria Perreault: Sonja and Rosie have asked for a 7-day vote
[12:05] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Jos have asked to speak ㋡
[12:06] josjoha Resident: aye o/
[12:06] Fern Leissa:

[12:06] Arria Perreault: II. INFORMATIONS
a. CDS Portal update
[12:06] josjoha Resident: hi Callip
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Calli
[12:06] Callipygian Christensen: hi hi
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Hi Calli
[12:06] Arria Perreault: I have an information about the CDS portal
[12:06] Pip Torok: hi calli
[12:07] Arria Perreault: as you know, Trebor wanted to talk about the CDS portal and this point was in the agenda of the last meeting.
[12:08] Arria Perreault: Then Mizou has volunteered to create a new design for the CDS Portal
[12:08] Arria Perreault: we had a first meeting that I attented
[12:08] Arria Perreault: it was very good
[12:09] Arria Perreault: then Mizou has proposed a design
[12:09] Arria Perreault: the link is in the forums
[12:10] Fern Leissa: Thank you Arria. I did see the discussion about a new web portal but did not realize there was a link to Mizou’s design
[12:10] Fern Leissa: This is a great community effort and I’m happy to see it moving along so smoothly

[12:11] Pip Torok: Do we know when the new-style portal will go into operation?
[12:11] Pip Torok: (agree!)
[12:11] Arria Perreault: sorry the link i in Facebook
[12:11] Arria Perreault: there was a second meeting that I could not attent
[12:11] Fern Leissa: Ah..tx. I’ll check there
[12:12] josjoha Resident: http://www.access4alldesign.com/wpcds/?page_id=15
[12:12] Arria Perreault: thank you Jos
[12:12] josjoha Resident: ty Arria
[12:12] Pip Torok: what is this jos?
[12:13] Arria Perreault: the prototype for the future portal
[12:13] josjoha Resident: The link to the design by Mizou, if you pardon my interruption.
[12:13] Pip Torok: ah!
[12:13] Arria Perreault: she is working with WordPress. It means that we will have to migrate our contents to a new system
[12:14] Pip Torok: I suppose our contents will be moved but that we ourselves wont need to move it, madame lra?
[12:14] Arria Perreault: Pip, I don’t know yeat
[12:15] Arria Perreault: I think that it is the opportunity to update contents and to improve them (re-write)
[12:15] Arria Perreault: I hope that it will be possible to migrate some other like the code of law quite automatically
[12:16] Arria Perreault: for the moment no RA action is needed
[12:16] Arria Perreault: every citizen can give an opinion about the design
[12:16] Arria Perreault: question?
[12:17] Fern Leissa: None from me
[12:17] Pip Torok: only that i approve any pictorial design provided that the portal is as functional if not more than the old one
[12:18] Arria Perreault: ok Pip
[12:18] Arria Perreault: We can thank Mizou for her work
[12:18] Arria Perreault: and follow the developement of the project
[12:18] Pip Torok: can that be from the whole of the RA, mme lra?
[12:19] Arria Perreault: I don’t understand the question?
[12:19] Pip Torok: (the thanks to Mizou i meant)
[12:19] Arria Perreault: yes ㋡
[12:19] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Jos have asked to speak
[12:20] Arria Perreault: Jos you have the floor
[12:20] josjoha Resident: Thank you Arria:
[12:20] josjoha Resident: Today I made a design for a 256x256m simulator, link: http://www.law4.org/sl/sim1/planning.html It is not specifically made for CDS, but it could be a design for another sim. It has 50 plots of 10×10, and has a unique history to it back to pre-history and geological time. The design can be used with any Government system. Merely wanted to put it out, may be fun to do. I would of course enjoy it to assist in building it !
[12:21] josjoha Resident: That’s it, thank you.
[12:21] Pip Torok: jos, will you be keeping it until we can make an assessment/
[12:22] Pip Torok: ?
[12:22] josjoha Resident: Of course, that page will be there for years.
[12:22] Arria Perreault: thank you, Jos
[12:22] josjoha Resident: Everyone who enjoys this design or a derivative: feel free to use it, it’s yours.
[12:23] Pip Torok: ok … but imo its more appropriate if all citizens separately assess it then give their opinion via the Forums …
[12:23] Pip Torok: thank you!
[12:23] josjoha Resident:

[12:23] Fern Leissa: I assume we can contact you if we have questions jos?
[12:23] josjoha Resident: Of course, but this is only a design – which I of course can attempt to build – but I have no resources to buy anything.
[12:24] Pip Torok: btw jos does the design include a recommendation of its placing vis a vis the 5 sims?
[12:24] josjoha Resident: It seemed that it might be south below Monestary ?
[12:24] Arria Perreault: I find your idea interesting (I have studied archaeology and anthropology in the past)
[12:24] josjoha Resident: the roads would roughly go there, but I have not yet looked into that properly, though if you want me i will.
[12:24] Arria Perreault: Hi Delia
[12:24] Fern Leissa: Hi Delia
[12:25] josjoha Resident: Hi Delia
[12:25] Pip Torok: hi Delia!
[12:25] DeliaLake Beaumont: Hi everyone

[12:25] Fern Leissa: Did you remarry Delia? You have a new last name?
[12:25] josjoha Resident: There are some steep ground alevations in CDS, but with a different ground water setting a lot should be possible
[12:25] Pip Torok: (double-barrelled names seem to be all the rage!

[12:25] Fern Leissa chuchote : Sorry jos
[12:25] DeliaLake Beaumont: lol, an alt today

[12:26] josjoha Resident: Fern ? sup
[12:26] Fern Leissa: I interruped you

[12:26] Fern Leissa: Sorry
[12:26] josjoha Resident: oh np :-)

[12:27] josjoha Resident: I will look into the placement, I will enjoy doing it and write a report in the page.
[12:27] Pip Torok: you realise of course jos that we are making no commitment at this stage?
[12:27] Arria Perreault: South Monastery is high in the mountains
[12:27] Arria Perreault: the water will be a lake
[12:27] josjoha Resident: Pip, of course, I fully understand and assume absolutely nothing.
[12:28] josjoha Resident: Arria, yes, that was also the idea.
[12:28] Arria Perreault: Jos, there is a formal process to propose a new sim
[12:28] josjoha Resident: Arria, ah ok, I didn’t know – and don’t really have a sim, it’s only a design for one.
[12:28] Arria Perreault: we have two ways: either the proposal come from the CDS or from a private person
[12:29] Arria Perreault: ok. I just inform you
[12:29] Fern Leissa: Hi Zoe

Welcome to CDS
[12:29] josjoha Resident: I know that Cleo also wants small plots, and ppl seem to like very cheap spots – if we did this void and 50 plots i suppose that is about as cheap as you can get ??
[12:29] Zoe Foodiboo: Hi everyone’
[12:29] josjoha Resident: Hi Zoe
[12:29] Arria Perreault: Hi Zoe
[12:30] Arria Perreault: welcome in the representative assembly of CDS
[12:30] josjoha Resident: I thought it could just be a void sim, with 30-40 prims per home.
[12:30] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:30] Pip Torok: but dont forget that the looknfeel is paramount jos
[12:30] josjoha Resident: Still 125,- dollars a month or so :-(

seems like a lot of money to me
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I suggest that you paste the link in the forums to ask for feedback
[12:31] josjoha Resident: Oki Arria, ty.
[12:31] josjoha Resident: I’m not really pushing for this, just thought it is an idea.
[12:31] josjoha Resident: ty
[12:32] Arria Perreault: thank you, Jos ㋡
[12:32] Arria Perreault: any other concern?
[12:32] Arria Perreault: if it is not the case, I suggest that we move to the next point
[12:33] Arria Perreault: II. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. CDS asset security issues (20 min)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486
[12:33] Arria Perreault: Infortunately Sudane is not here
[12:34] Fern Leissa: I would really like to hear from Sudane… so perhaps we should postpone again
[12:34] Arria Perreault: we have already discussed this point during the last meeting
[12:34] Arria Perreault: yes, Fern
[12:34] Pip Torok: seconded (if thats a proposa
[12:34] Arria Perreault: vote
[12:34] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:34] Pip Torok: aye
[12:34] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:34] Arria Perreault: motion carried
[12:35] Arria Perreault: there is also 2 7-days votes
[12:35] Arria Perreault: I will write to Sudane to make sure that she comes
[12:35] Fern Leissa:

[12:35] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS
[12:36] Arria Perreault: there is no new items
[12:36] Pip Torok: before we go on mme lra?
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Pip
[12:37] Pip Torok: may i suggest that we all formulate question to put to sudane before the next meeting … it wd be to everyones benefit
[12:37] Arria Perreault: good idea
[12:37] Fern Leissa: agree
[12:37] Arria Perreault: in the forums?
[12:37] Pip Torok: yes
[12:37] Arria Perreault: good
[12:37] Arria Perreault: there is already a thread
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we continue it
[12:38] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486
[12:39] Fern Leissa: yes please
[12:39] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS
[12:39] Arria Perreault: there is no new item for today
[12:41] Arria Perreault: RA members and citizen are allowed to make proposals to the the RA by publishing in the forums or by writing to the LRA (a reminder)
[12:41] Arria Perreault: V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
[12:41] Arria Perreault: do you have something to report?
[12:41] Pip Torok: yes mme lra
[12:41] Arria Perreault: Pip
[12:43] Pip Torok: first i take cali’s point about the calibre of citizen to be our ideal … in short able to debate without fear or favour but who can give ear to other ideas and to consider everything deeply
[12:43] Callipygian Christensen frowns
[12:43] Pip Torok: second .. i had hoped th poetry session and gwyns talk may bring possible new recruits but that has not apparently yet happened
[12:44] Pip Torok: so .. i will advertise the poetry session far more widely …
[12:44] Pip Torok: i have promised help from other poetry groups
[12:45] Arria Perreault: you can announce the poetry event in SL events list
[[12:45] Pip Torok: btw poetry groups are known to have ppl who are both deepthinkers and good speakers
[12:45] Pip Torok: and last
[12:46] Pip Torok: i propose to make a representation to caledon ONCE i have permission from this who can give it
[12:46] Pip Torok: done
[12:47] Pip Torok: questions?
[12:47] Arria Perreault: My suggestion: what has to be discussed can be discussed in a commission (for example the profile of future citizen)
[12:47] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:47] Fern Leissa: me/ raises hand
[12:47] Fern Leissa:

[12:47] Arria Perreault: you can also come with proposal (like the representation in Caledon). I suggest that you start is the forum
[12:47] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:47] Pip Torok: very true … certainly with trebor who has expressed interest and all other are welcome
[12:47] Fern Leissa: Calli first?
[12:48] Arria Perreault: sorry
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Calli, you have the floor
[12:48] Callipygian Christensen: Just to clarify, Pip – your interpretation of my comment goes further than I intende
[12:48] Pip Torok: ah … cd you correct me plse?
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: MY point was that CDS isn’t the place where people who just want a pretty house and somone keeping the lawns trimmed is going to a) last long or b) actually participate..
[12:49] Pip Torok: fair enough, thank you
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: so I was suggesting more that advertising and promotion be more specific to people or groups most likely to want to be here and involved, than a shotgun approach of ‘hey everyone, come live here’
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: done
[12:50] Pip Torok: right … and my report i hope implies that tendency
[12:50] Callipygian Christensen: (and I didn’t mean to fully cap the ‘my’ lol..was a typo’
[12:51] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:51] Fern Leissa: Ty Arria
[12:52] Fern Leissa: I think I would still prefer indiscriminate recruitment. I would prefer the boadest group of interests..
[12:52] Fern Leissa: I am also hopefull that some that didn’t even know they were interested.. and come for land or whatever
[12:52] Fern Leissa: Find themselves interested after a while.
[12:52] Fern Leissa: done
[12:53] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:53] Arria Perreault: well I am a bit shared between both positions
[12:53] Pip Torok: I see what you mean fern .. my opinion is that committed citizens have a divergence of interest quite apart from their ideal of a democratic approach
[12:54] Arria Perreault: I think it woul be a good thing to define the profil of potentially interested poeple
[12:54] Zoe Foodiboo: Thank you for having me, everyone. I must dash.
[12:54] Pip Torok: the problem with “late” converts imo Fern is that theyll stay “unconverted” ie apathetic to elections and voting
[12:54] Arria Perreault: thank you, Zoe
[12:54] Fern Leissa: I do not want a “club of like-minded” pp. I think that defeats the purpose of CDs
[12:55] Fern Leissa: Bye Zoe
[12:55] Fern Leissa: That is my concern
[12:55] Pip Torok: yes … but then independence of mind will always tend against a “club2 atmosphere, no?
[12:56] Fern Leissa:

[12:56] Callipygian Christensen: I wasn’t really suggesting only like-minded people Fern…just trying to consider what is the most effectiv way to promote and also retain
[12:57] DeliaLake Beaumont raises her hand
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Delia
[12:57] DeliaLake Beaumont: I’m thinking that Calli is raising an important point
[12:58] Pip Torok: i wd suggest 3 things : 1) a LIKEABLE Community 2) a locality with our current look n feel 3) a trasparent democratic process in ope ration
[12:59] Pip Torok: if we can show these 3 things i think our best chance is there…
[12:59] DeliaLake Beaumont: that people who are just looking to “hang their hat, or bed” rather than being part of a community will probably not become active citizens
[12:59] Pip Torok: exactly Delia
[12:59] Arria Perreault: I agree
[12:59] Fern Leissa: huum… may I address that point?
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I have to admit though that I had no idea about the democratic institutions of CDS when I bought a house here. I got interested later.
[13:00] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:00] Fern Leissa: That’s what I was going to say Arria. I bought land here because there was a nice bookstore in NFS and I wanted to live by a river
[13:01] Pip Torok: hi alexia
[13:01] Alexia Carnell waves
[13:01] Fern Leissa: But… after meeting pp… well… I got interested and stayed
[13:01] Fern Leissa: Hi Alexia
[13:01] Arria Perreault: Hi Alexia
[13:02] Alexia Carnell waves to all
[13:02] Arria Perreault: some poeple come for the institutions, some others for the landscapes and some for the themes
[13:03] Pip Torok: so can I conclude that we emphasise that fact of our democracy and let ppl come around instantly or slowly according to their wishes?
[13:03] Arria Perreault: we can have different target group
[13:03] Fern Leissa: Yes so.. we need to be careful not to target to narrowly. Takes all kinds. Course some of you may wish I weren’t here lol
[13:04] Arria Perreault: Pip, I wonder if we should not have a marketing commission which could address these issues and give directions to the executive
[13:04] Pip Torok: talking of themes, Mizou and i agree about a possible new theme … more in the Forums
[13:05] Pip Torok: certainly mme lra .. tho i hope this does not delay our recruitment per se
[13:05] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:05] Arria Perreault: are you finished Pip?
[13:06] Pip Torok: yes
[13:06] Arria Perreault: I have made some reflexions about the animations of the sims
[13:06] Arria Perreault: I want to share them before to start a discussion in the forum
[13:06] Arria Perreault: until now we had the regional commissions
[13:07] Arria Perreault: they are both sleepy now for different reasons
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I have tried to think about a more dynamic way to encourage the organization of events
[13:08] Arria Perreault: I think that we have to encourage private initiatives
[13:09] Arria Perreault: Pip is organizing these nice poetry events and he had also make an event to welcome new citizen
[13:09] Arria Perreault: Gwyn is thinking to make an event to talk about democracy
[13:09] Arria Perreault: there is probably other initiatives
[13:10] Arria Perreault: we should make a mecanism that allow the Executive to help these citizen to organize their events
[13:11] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:11] Arria Perreault: a. by by helping (land, promotion, attribution of public prims, …)
[13:11] Arria Perreault: and also to attribute them some money to help to pay a musician
[13:11] Arria Perreault: (this is the b.)
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Citizen could apply to request some help (financial or material)
[13:12] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Pip is first, the Calli
[13:12] Pip Torok: right …
[13:13] Pip Torok: imo the exec can BOTH initiate dances with money attributed to them and with musicians of their own choice
[13:13] Pip Torok: AND help out private initiateves ..
[13:14] Pip Torok: secondly private initiatives by their very nature dont normally need public encouragement ;0
[13:14] Pip Torok: done
[13:14] Arria Perreault: Calli
[13:15] Callipygian Christensen: Much as i am a big supporter of live music and DJs in SL, paying money for them as a way to attract residents is, imo, a very expensive method with low results
[13:16] Callipygian Christensen: They make an event lively, no doubt, but if you are seeing this as money spent on musicisans = new residents, a better investment might be a banner ad on the SL marketplace or on one of the other SL specific sites
[13:16] Pip Torok raises hand to answer call’s point
[13:17] Arria Perreault: Calli, the goals of events are not only to attract new residents. Current residents appreciate them and maybe stay longer in our community
[13:17] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:17] Pip Torok: i was about to make that verym point mme lra
[13:18] Callipygian Christensen: I agree Pip – and maybe its just hairsplittting..I’d see that as a budget item of ‘enhancing the sims’, not part of promoting new residents
[13:18] Callipygian Christensen: sorry.that was a reply to Arria
[13:18] Arria Perreault: I am not only thinking to live music and DJ, Calli
[13:18] Callipygian Christensen: then its a reply to you too Pip

[13:18] Fern Leissa: May I comment next mme LRA?
[13:18] Pip Torok: :-)

[13:18] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:18] Fern Leissa: ty
[13:19] Fern Leissa: I agree with Calli that DJ’s and music does not seem to be an effective way of recruiting new citizens
[13:19] Fern Leissa: I do however like the idea you are putting forth
[13:19] Fern Leissa: That we should welcome and support private efforts to enliven our sims
[13:20] Fern Leissa: I especially think the govt could be helpful in terms of publicity for an event
[13:20] Fern Leissa: But also maybe we could have some sort of mini grant program where you apply for supplemental funding or prims for your event
[13:21] Fern Leissa: done
[13:21] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I will start a thread in the forums about this question
[13:21] Fern Leissa:

Good
[13:21] Arria Perreault: next point: VI. Informations from the Executive team
[13:22] Arria Perreault: I did not get any information from Tor
[13:22] Arria Perreault: I just know that CDS is now in the SL Destination Guide
[13:22] Arria Perreault: which is a good thing
[13:23] Pip Torok: i have given copies of Tors intro to CDS to around 3 dozen visitors
[13:23] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[13:23] Fern Leissa: wow

[13:24] Arria Perreault: There is also a thread from Trebor in the forums about Oktoberfest
[13:24] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3523
[13:25] Arria Perreault: MoCA will open a new exhibition for Oktoberfest :-)

[13:25] Arria Perreault: VII. Concerns of RA Members
[13:26] Arria Perreault: any point?
[13:26] Pip Torok: (wd welcome the inclusion of links to every exhibit in MoCa)
[13:26] Fern Leissa: I have one though it is not really an ra issue
[13:26] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:27] Fern Leissa: The NG. I know there was some discussion about a citizens meeting of the NG to get things restarted and elect a new Director
[13:27] Fern Leissa: I don’t believe anything has happened
[13:28] Fern Leissa: Is there any thing we can do to get things moving again?
[13:28] Fern Leissa: That’s my concern
[13:28] Pip Torok: istrongly agree .. in fact imo that is the overridingly urgent issue currently in CDS
[13:29] Pip Torok: without an NG we are rudderless
[13:29] Arria Perreault: the only thing we can do as RA is to discuss about the way CDS is handling the replacement of infrastructure or its expansion. Is it through a NGO or a governmental organization.
[13:30] Pip Torok: we do not plan … we do not review building standards … we are in danger of becoming a sprawl
[13:30] Arria Perreault: not the RA, Pip
[13:30] Arria Perreault: an other governmental organization
[13:30] Pip Torok: we being CDS in general, not the RA
[13:31] Arria Perreault: I think that the Guild (the first one) was a banch of the government
[13:31] Arria Perreault: branch*
[13:32] Fern Leissa: So… it remains for us as private citizens to try and move things forward? That is our only option?
[13:32] Pip Torok: well if the indeterminacy of its status is the root cause, lets settle it ASAP
[13:32] Arria Perreault: yes, I think
[13:32] Pip Torok: and to urge the SC to make a more productive decision
[13:32] Arria Perreault: Pip, we can put this question in the agenda of the RA, if you want
[13:33] Pip Torok: thank you, mme lra
[13:33] Fern Leissa: Somehow.. this seems a serious problem. As sim development is an important part of any community.
[13:34] Arria Perreault: do you want me I add this point in the agenda of the next meeting, Pip?
[13:34] Fern Leissa: I would like to put this on the agenda as a point of discussion Arria.
[13:34] Callipygian Christensen raies her hand
[13:34] Pip Torok: yes please, mme lra
[13:34] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:34] Arria Perreault: Calli
[13:35] Callipygian Christensen: Pip, could you clarify what you mean by the SC making a more productive decision – is there something before the SC right now that has not been publicized?
[13:36] Pip Torok: yes … the decision to state that it is a “private grouping” in effect leaves us all in the air ..
[13:36] Pip Torok: as you can see, it became a stalemate
[13:36] Pip Torok: the best qualified sec was disallowed
[13:37] Callipygian Christensen: That is not the SC’s problem ..and I don’t believe you want the SC to start basing decisions on what is most convenient.
[13:37] Pip Torok: wihout a further footing imo there is no chance of anyone coming forward (i myself asked 2 ppl)
[13:39] Pip Torok: well then … i hope the sc will recognise that the future direction of CDS IS a concern for them
[13:39] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we discuss the question of the NG in the next meeting
[13:39] DeliaLake Beaumont raises her hand
[13:39] Arria Perreault: Delia
[13:39] Callipygian Christensen: It seems that RA could ask a citizen to call a meeting of theNG with the specific purpose of identifying or electing a new person
[13:39] Pip Torok: sorry mme lra you are quite right
[13:40] Arria Perreault: on which base can we do that, Calli?
[13:40] Callipygian Christensen: Because , as Pip says, it is needed and you are the government..so ask someone.
[13:40] Fern Leissa: I have to agree w/ Arria. I’m not sure we have the authority Calli
[13:41] Fern Leissa: We could revoke the charter possibly in that we granted it…. but
[13:41] Pip Torok: but then if WE do not have the authority, _who- does?
[13:41] Fern Leissa: That’s the problem

[13:41] DeliaLake Beaumont: Point of clarification re the SC and the Guild. The Guild is a nongovernment agency not a government one. So the SC referred the matter of Guild Sec back to the Guild. Their election may have been in violation of their own documents but not a violation of the CDS government rules and regulations
[13:42] Fern Leissa: We have not had a smooth transition of authority w/in the NG, a private organization
[13:42] DeliaLake Beaumont: The guild has every right to modify/amend their own documents or to make exceptions to them
[13:43] Arria Perreault: we will discuss this question in 2 weeks
[13:44] Arria Perreault: other RA members concerns?
[13:45] Arria Perreault: VIII. Announcements
[13:45] Arria Perreault: any announcements?
[13:46] Arria Perreault: I don’t have
[13:46] Arria Perreault: IX. Adjournment
[13:46] Pip Torok: so move
[13:46] Callipygian Christensen: Arria..now that the meeting is over I have a suggestion
[13:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:47] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:47] Pip Torok: aye

[13:46] Callipygian Christensen: Arria..now that the meeting is over I have a suggestion
[13:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:47] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:47] Pip Torok: aye
[13:47] Arria Perreault: Calli (out of transcript?)
[13:47] Callipygian Christensen: well i was afk and missed the call for closing so it will have to be
[13:48] Arria Perreault: what is your suggestion?
[13:48] Callipygian Christensen: You can include it as an addendum if you wish
[13:48] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:48] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, you attended the guild meeting and spoke eloquently as to conflict etc, resulting in Rosie’s resignation..did you do that as a private citizen?
[13:49] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[13:49] Callipygian Christensen: Then as a private citizen, why can you not call a meeting of the NG and post an agenda of a call for a seretary?
[13:49] Callipygian Christensen: secretary even, if I could type
[13:50] Arria Perreault: every citizen can call this meeting, I think
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: Or for that matter, anyone of themebers of RA (except Rosie) and get things moving that way?
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: Ok Arria, then the point is, it isnt the RA interfering or stepping out of its mandate if any one of you gets this rolling.
[13:52] Arria Perreault: we can all do this as private person and citizen
[13:53] Pip Torok: i see an anomaly here … rosie cannot be NG Sec and RA member, but Arria (an RA member) can be a private citizen at an NG meeting
[13:53] Fern Leissa: She would not be holding office Pip. This is a NG Charter rule
[13:54] Callipygian Christensen: of such things are democracy made Pip, lol, I am just trying to point out that since anyone can do this, just do it, or ask someone to
[13:54] Pip Torok: but every private citizen has a vote and therefore a place in the NG
[13:54] Pip Torok: point taken, Calli
[13:55] Arria Perreault: Calli, we have hear you and everyone can make a decision to do it or not privately
[13:55] Arria Perreault: Fern and Pip, do you agree that I add this point in the transcript?
[13:55] Fern Leissa: Good point Calli. And I think that is where we should go. But I remain concerned that we cannot require a pp to organize in the same way we could if this were under the responsibility of the ra
[13:55] Pip Torok: I agree
[13:55] Fern Leissa: yes Arria
[13:55] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:55] Fern Leissa: It seems like we need to fix this problem as well
[13:56] Fern Leissa: Not that the Ra take over… I’m not suggesting that
[13:56] Callipygian Christensen: No, not require..just ask
[13:57] Fern Leissa: I will. Privately I will ask Guillaume. He expressed an interest in calling a meeting
[13:57] Callipygian Christensen: There you go

[13:58] DeliaLake Beaumont: According to the rules of the NG Rosie cannot be both Sec and RA. But there is nothing in the constitution that prevents an RA from being also NG Sec. the issue as I recall was that the NG felt that indepence from the government was important so that their proposals would be artistically and functionally responsible
[13:59] Arria Perreault: Delia, can I also add that remark in the transcript?
[13:59] Callipygian Christensen: I think the issue now Delia is that everyone is waiting for someone else to call a meeting, since no one and everyone has the authority to do so.
[14:00] Callipygian Christensen: If Fern asks Guille, and he calls the meeting, that gets things moving
[14:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: who can call one?
[14:00] DeliaLake Beaumont: yes, you may Arria
[14:00] Fern Leissa: Hi CLEO. Didn’t see you come in
[14:01] Arria Perreault: thank you
[14:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Hi:)
[14:01] Arria Perreault: Hi Cleo
[14:01] Arria Perreault: I will stop the transcript here, as I have to go soon
[14:01] Arria Perreault: and we are adjourned

Summary

The RA thanks Mizou Vavoom for her volunteer work for the CDS Portal
The RA postpones the point “CDS asset security issues” to the next meeting, as Sudane Erato is not present at the meeting
The following points will be put on the agenda of the next meeting:

– Encouragement for the organization of events through initiative of citizen
– The status of the New Guild as organization responsible of infrastructure’s improvements and expansion

Permalink.

RA Meeting 25 September 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.II. INFORMATIONS

–

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. CDS asset security issues (20 min)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486

IV. NEW ITEMS
– Encouragement for the organization of events through initiative of citizen
– The status of the New Guild as organization responsible of infrastructure’s improvements and expansion
– The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities

V. Reports of RA members about the priorities of the term
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

Roles of CDS WebportalThe Administrator is responsible for accesses, (providing username and password for named redactors ) support and quality management.
The Administrator manages the whole portal, the plug ins, theme, widgets, and the picture gallery on the home page.
The Administrator names an another responsible if unable to work on the portal for more then two weeks.
The Administrator is responsible to provide a regular backup of the portal.
The Administrator has access to the blog.

The Editor is responsible for the content of a branch, an NGO or a faction. Each branch (or NGO or faction) is responsible to nominate a person who gets the role of Editor and to submit the name to the Administrator who will provide access to the blog for the duration of their term.
The Editor has an access to the blog.

The owner of the domain name http://www.slcds.info and subdomain portal.slcds.info assure continued service in collaboration with the Webmaster.

Transcript

[12:01] Arria Perreault: we are quorate. we can start
[12:01] Pip Torok: no … am becoming more american by the day dammit!
[12:02] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:02] Pip Torok: (must be something in the water)
[12:02] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:02] Rosie Gray: (hic)
[12:02] Rosie Gray: thank you
[12:03] Arria Perreault: I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[12:03] Arria Perreault: Do you agree with this agenda?
[12:04] Pip Torok: one slight possinbility mme lra … i just might be called away for an event crisis ..
[12:04] Pip Torok: but i told them RA comes first!
[12:04] Arria Perreault: ok, Pip
[12:05] Arria Perreault: Fern is online
[12:05] Arria Perreault: I guess she will join us
[12:05] Rosie Gray: we should wait for her
[12:05] Arria Perreault: Encouragement for the organization of events through initiative of citizen
[12:06] Arria Perreault: as I did not yet start thediscussion in the forums about that
[12:06] Pip Torok: speak of the devil!!

[12:06] Arria Perreault: yes, Rosie, I agree
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Fern is here
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern
[12:06] Arria Perreault: we are discussing the agenda
[12:06] Rosie Gray: hi Fern
[12:06] Mizou Vavoom: Hi Fern
[12:06] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi Rosei?’
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi Mizou
[12:07] Rosie Gray: I have a question about the Agenda, Arria
[12:07] josjoha Resident: hi Fern
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi jso
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Sorry *jos
[12:08] Arria Perreault: yes, Rosie
[12:08] Rosie Gray: I was wondering about the “Roles of CDS Webportal” at the bottom
[12:08] Rosie Gray: just why that is there
[12:09] Arria Perreault: yes, Mizou has made a request to add this point in the RA Agenda
[12:09] Mizou Vavoom nods
[12:09] Rosie Gray: Okay, but where has this text come from?
[12:09] You decline Cancellation: Damian Carbenell Noon SLT from A group member named Tor Karlsvalt.
[12:10] Arria Perreault: we have worked together to make a a proposal to be discussed in the RA
[12:10] Arria Perreault: Hi Guillaume
[12:10] Fern Leissa: Hi Guillaume
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello all
[12:10] josjoha Resident: hi Guillaume again
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Here fore a bit
[12:11] Rosie Gray: meanin you and Mizou have worked together? Sorry but this seems like it is more than just the topic, that it should be a separate document
[12:11] Arria Perreault: you mean two notecards?
[12:11] Rosie Gray: well, yes
[12:11] Rosie Gray: as this isn’t really part of the Agenda
[12:11] Arria Perreault: I was a bit an hurry
[12:12] Arria Perreault: I am sorry
[12:12] Pip Torok: and on a general point, I for one wd value some input from ra members when setting up the agenda.. done
[12:12] Rosie Gray: okay, well as long as we understand it’s not part of the Agenda
[12:12] Rosie Gray: but just some information, then that’s fine with me
[12:13] Arria Perreault: it’s not a part of the agenda. It’s a proposal for the point The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities
[12:13] Rosie Gray nods
[12:15] Arria Perreault: Thank you, Pip, for your remark. I think that I respect our rules of procedures. Thus is also why we review the agenda at the beginning of the meeting
[12:15] You decline On The Rocks (New LM) from A group member named stella Ponsford.
[12:16] Arria Perreault: do you agree not to take the point Encouragement for the organization of events through initiative of citizen, as I did not start yet the discussion in the forum?
[12:16] Fern Leissa: I agree
[12:16] Pip Torok: and i agree
[12:16] Rosie Gray: yes
[12:16] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:17] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I did not get any request
[12:17] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:18] Arria Perreault: I ask non RA members: who wants to speak today?
[12:18] Sudane Erato: well… i guess i will speak on the asset issue
[12:18] Arria Perreault: yes, of course Sudane
[12:18] Arria Perreault: and I guess Mizou about the portal?
[12:19] Arria Perreault: in any case, just raise the hand
[12:19] Guillaume Mistwalker raises hand.
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Guillaume?
[12:20] Mizou Vavoom agrees
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m not sure if this would go under “Informations II”, VI or VIII…
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: But I have an announcement, yes.
[12:20] Arria Perreault: good
[12:20] Arria Perreault: you can do it in the point Citizen concerns
[12:20] Arria Perreault: II. INFORMATIONS: I have no informations today
[12:21] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)
[12:21] Arria Perreault: who wants to speak?
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker slowly raises hand.
[12:22] Arria Perreault: Guillaume
[12:22] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’d just like to announce, since I have to go soon, that I’ve recently resigned from my position as APIO and am in the process of selling my plot in NFS.
[12:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: Apologies if this is the wrong point. Done.
[12:23] Anna Toussaint is Online
[12:23] Rosie Gray: oh we will be sorry to see you go Guillaume
[12:23] Pip Torok is sorry to hear Guillaume’s news
[12:23] jaynine Scarborough is Online
[12:23] sabreman Carter is Offline
[12:23] Thinkerer Melville is Offline
[12:23] Fern Leissa: I am too but wish you well Guillaume
[12:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: And with that, I am afraid I must be off.
[12:23] Rosie Gray:

[12:23] Mizou Vavoom is also sorry to see Guilaume go
[12:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye everybody.
[12:24] josjoha Resident: bad news
[12:24] Fern Leissa: Bye Guillaume
[12:24] Mizou Vavoom: goodbye Guill
[12:24] Rosie Gray: goodbye Guill!
[12:24] josjoha Resident: bbye Guillaume
[12:24] Arria Perreault is Offline
[12:24] Pip Torok: bye Guillaume …
[12:24] Sudane Erato: oops
[12:24] Joaquin Gustav is Online
[12:24] Sudane Erato: Arria left too
[12:24] Fern Leissa: Maybe she went after him ..
[12:24] Rosie Gray: did Arria crash?
[12:24] Sudane Erato: yeah
[12:24] josjoha Resident: i think she crashed probably
[12:25] Fern Leissa whispers: Rosie yu scare me
[12:25] josjoha Resident: lol
[12:25] Rosie Gray: don’t be scared Fern
[12:25] Laurel Sandalwood is Offline
[12:25] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:25] Rosie Gray: I am your friend
[12:25] Rosie Gray: muahahahahah
[12:25] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Arria Perreault (10m)
[12:25] Arria Perreault is Online
[12:25] josjoha Resident: wb
[12:25] Pip Torok: theyre all softies at heart!
[12:25] Rosie Gray: wb Arria
[12:25] Fern Leissa: You look a bit different than i remember
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker is Offline
[12:26] Arria Perreault: sorry I have crashed
[12:26] Fern Leissa: wb Arria
[12:26] Arria Perreault: really (Ruth?)
[12:26] Arria Perreault: I am happy if someone can paste the part of the chat I have missed
[12:27] Pip Torok: ok …
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I have said that I was sorry for Guillaume
[12:27] Arria Perreault: any other concern?
[12:28] Arria Perreault: can we go further in the agenda?
[12:28] Fern Leissa: Should we wait.. to see if HH has anything
[12:28] Fern Leissa: Hi HH
[12:28] Arria Perreault: Hi HonesHeat ㋡
[12:29] Arria Perreault: we are under the point “Citizen concerns”. DO you have any concerns?
[12:29] Rosie Gray: hello Heart
[12:29] HonestHeart Resident: Hello Sorry Im late I just got the message
[12:29] Mizou Vavoom: Hi Heart
[12:29] josjoha Resident: hi Honest
[12:30] Pip Torok gave you 2arria re missing ra fragment.
[12:31] Arria Perreault: thank you Pip for the copy of the chat
[12:31] Arria Perreault: do you have a concern, HH?
[12:32] HonestHeart Resident: no not at this time
[12:32] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:32] Arria Perreault: We can take the next point in the agenda
[12:32] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
a. CDS asset security issues (20 min)
[12:33] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3486
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I thank Sudane to be here today to give us more detail about this proposal
[12:33] Arria Perreault: Sudane, you have the floor
[12:33] Sudane Erato: sorry for not being here previously
[12:33] Sudane Erato: oh
[12:34] Sudane Erato: i think I have explained the issue in great length in that post
[12:34] Sudane Erato: so
[12:34] Sudane Erato: does anyone have an y questions or concerns about it?
[12:34] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:34] Sudane Erato: it will require RA action
[12:34] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[12:35] Rosie Gray: I think it seems to be quite well thought out, and a necessary thing to do
[12:35] Rosie Gray: I’d like to make a motion
[12:35] Rosie Gray: that Sudane move forward with her plan
[12:36] Rosie Gray: to secure the CDS assets
[12:36] Rosie Gray: done
[12:36] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:36] Arria Perreault: other questions or a second?
[12:36] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[12:36] Sudane Erato: sure
[12:37] Arria Perreault: does this plan cost anything?
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I mean the work of Timo
[12:37] Sudane Erato: not to my knowledge… Timo has volunteered to contribute his work
[12:37] Sudane Erato: i will let you know if that changes
[12:38] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:38] Sudane Erato: may i add something?
[12:38] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:38] Sudane Erato: please understand that the RA is faced here with 2 actions
[12:39] Sudane Erato: 1…. as Rosie has moved… to authorize this plan
[12:39] Sudane Erato: but there is also 2
[12:39] Sudane Erato: 2… the RA must establish a system
[12:39] Sudane Erato: where there is always an “owner-to-be”
[12:39] Sudane Erato: and in thetoery… also
[12:39] Sudane Erato: an “content holder to be
[12:40] Sudane Erato: (Aliasi’s role)
[12:40] Sudane Erato: the plan is useless without that that person being in place
[12:40] Rosie Gray nods
[12:40] Sudane Erato: and thats a very big change for us
[12:40] Arria Perreault: do we have to choose this person?
[12:40] Sudane Erato: of course!
[12:41] Sudane Erato: not today, of course
[12:41] Sudane Erato: but you must set the system in motion
[12:41] Arria Perreault: yes, we need to find a way to choose this person
[12:41] Sudane Erato: yes
[12:41] Fern Leissa raises hand
[12:41] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:41] Sudane Erato: we “presume” that you chose me
[12:41] Sudane Erato: so you must chose my successor
[12:41] Sudane Erato: potential successor
[12:42] Fern Leissa: I was wondering if we didn’t need to draft and act.. something for the law code
[12:42] Fern Leissa: to outline the procedure
[12:42] Arria Perreault: yes, Fern
[12:42] Arria Perreault: it would be good to have a draft
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Perhaps we could authorize today.. and also select someone(s) to draft the act?
[12:42] Sudane Erato: note that in the forum Soro offered to help with this
[12:42] Arria Perreault: right
[12:43] Arria Perreault: do you agree that we proceed like Fern said?
[12:43] Arria Perreault: authorize today (we have a motion)
[12:43] Pip Torok: i wd agree
[12:44] Rosie Gray: I would agree as well
[12:44] Fern Leissa: Hi Alexia
[12:44] Arria Perreault: then I will ask Soro to make this draft
[12:44] Fern Leissa: me too lol
[12:44] Pip Torok: hi alex!
[12:44] Arria Perreault: Hi Alex!
[12:44] Rosie Gray: hello Alexia
[12:44] Alexia Carnell: hello all
[12:44] HonestHeart Resident: Hi Alexia
[12:44] Arria Perreault: Sudane, I guess that you take in account all remarks that have been done in the forums?
[12:45] Mizou Vavoom: Hi Alexia
[12:45] You decline Sweet Whispers ~ Magnolia Design, Sweet Whisper (184, 236, 21) from A group member named stella Ponsford.
[12:45] Sudane Erato: yes… Calli’s was especially helpful
[12:45] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:45] Sudane Erato: and all the remarks were well put
[12:45] Fern Leissa raises hand
[12:45] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:46] Fern Leissa: I’d like to amend Rosie’s motion to say that
[12:46] Arria Perreault: ok. can we also add that we will ask Soro to make a draft?
[12:47] Fern Leissa: The ra will authorize Sudane’s proposal for financial management and the ra will appoint a committee to draft legislation to outline the process for implimenting the plan
[12:47] Sudane Erato: well… not strictly financial management
[12:47] Sudane Erato: all assets
[12:47] Sudane Erato: cash is one asset
[12:48] Sudane Erato: owning the sims is another
[12:48] Sudane Erato: and the objects that Aliasi owns is another
[12:48] Arria Perreault: can you suggest a text, Sudane?
[12:48] Fern Leissa: Good idea

[12:48] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:48] Sudane Erato: change the words financial to asset
[12:49] Arria Perreault: he ra will authorize Sudane’s proposal for asset management and the ra will appoint a committee to draft legislation to outline the process for implimenting the plan
[12:49] Sudane Erato: sounds good to me
[12:49] Arria Perreault: do you agree with this text?
[12:49] You decline Legion XIII, ROMA Transtiberim (111, 224, 42) from A group member named Angelia Rees.
[12:49] Pip Torok: to me too
[12:49] Fern Leissa: Yes

[12:49] Rosie Gray: yes, me too
[12:49] Pip Torok: me too
[12:49] Arria Perreault: I formally need a second for this motion
[12:49] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:50] Fern Leissa:

[12:50] Arria Perreault: vote
[12:50] Rosie Gray: aye
[12:50] Pip Torok: aye
[12:50] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:50] HonestHeart Resident: aye
[12:50] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:50] Arria Perreault: motions carried
[12:50] Arria Perreault: thank you Sudane for your work. Thank you to Timo too for his work.
[12:51] Pip Torok: HH … only RA members vote!…
[12:51] Sudane Erato: yvw
[12:51] HonestHeart Resident: oh sorry
[12:51] Pip Torok:

[12:51] Sudane Erato: it is as important to me as it is to the coiommunity

[12:51] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:51] Arria Perreault: I will write to Soro. who wants to be in the committee too?
[12:51] Arria Perreault: At least one RA member
[12:51] Fern Leissa: I
[12:52] Arria Perreault: thank you, Fern
[12:52] Fern Leissa: would be interested in helping i
[12:52] Rosie Gray: excellent, Fern!
[12:52] Arria Perreault: of course, other can join
[12:53] Arria Perreault: next point:
[12:53] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS- The status of the New Guild as organization responsible of infrastructure’s improvements and expansion
[12:54] Arria Perreault: as you know, we have a new secretary of the Guild now
[12:55] Arria Perreault: we have put this point before this election
[12:56] Arria Perreault: the New Guild has already met
[12:56] Arria Perreault: I can imagine that the collaboration will be like in the past
[12:56] Arria Perreault: do you want to discuss this point?
[12:56] Arria Perreault: RA-members first, then citizen
[12:57] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Rosie, you have the floor
[12:57] Pip Torok: not as such but i can only hope that the community will feel as one in their planning as well as in the implementation
[12:57] Pip Torok: (sorry Rosie)
[12:57] Rosie Gray: I don’t know what the collaboration was like in the past, because the NG has been inactive since I’ve been here,
[12:58] Rosie Gray: so perhaps you could encapsulate that?
[12:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:59] Arria Perreault: there was an intense collaborationthe opening of the sims AM, LA and Mon
[12:59] Arria Perreault: for*
[12:59] Arria Perreault: then the New Guild has made a lot of work about the Masterplan
[12:59] Arria Perreault: then the New Guild became sleepy
[13:00] Arria Perreault: the New Guild plays the role of an advisory board of the RA
[13:00] Arria Perreault: for example for the opening of an sim
[13:01] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:01] Arria Perreault: the RA can take the formal decisions (especially about finances), but we need an expertise
[13:01] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:01] Fern Leissa: I’m sorry Arria.. the NG is just an advisory group or are they the ones (or the ra) resposible for taking the iniatiave on the sim building.. rebuilding
[13:02] You decline Legion XIII, ROMA Transtiberim (111, 224, 42) from A group member named Angelia Rees.
[13:02] Arria Perreault: the NG can also take the initiative, but the formal decision is made in the RA
[13:03] Arria Perreault: in the case of LA, the RA has decided first and ask the New Guild to act
[13:03] Fern Leissa: So we could develop a list of priorities and ask the Ng to act
[13:03] Arria Perreault: for AM, the NG has launched a contest
[13:03] Fern Leissa: We get to say LA is the priority?
[13:04] Arria Perreault: yes, Fern, we can also set the priorities
[13:04] Fern Leissa: Have we formally set LA as the priority?
[13:05] Arria Perreault: The Representative Assembly (RA) is a body of democratically elected legislators which represent the views of CDS citizens. Its governmental role is to pass laws and its service role is to promote the city and perform long-term planning.
[13:05] Arria Perreault: we did not, but we can set LA as priority
[13:05] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:05] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:06] Rosie Gray: shouldn’t we discuss first if we want to set LA as a priority?
[13:06] Pip Torok agrees with Rosie
[13:06] Fern Leissa: Sure

[13:06] Arria Perreault: of course, we have to discuss this point before to vote ㋡
[13:07] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:07] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:08] Fern Leissa: I would like to suggest that we set LA as our first priority. It is the sim with the most serious problem in terms of attracting landowners
[13:08] Fern Leissa: NFS in spite of some problems with old builds, primmy builds continues to remain almost completly occupied
[13:08] Fern Leissa: done
[13:08] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:09] Arria Perreault: who want to tell something about LA as a priority?
[13:09] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:10] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:11] Pip Torok: only to build on what fern has said … and to summarise the “thrust” as LA problems then NFS problems then further new-sim developments … IN THAT ORDER
[13:11] Pip Torok: done
[13:11] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Rosie?
[13:12] Rosie Gray: I don’t have anything to add thank you Arria
[13:12] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:13] Arria Perreault: I can give the floor to citizen now
[13:13] Arria Perreault: who wants to say something?
[13:13] Alexia Carnell raises hand
[13:13] josjoha Resident: raises hand
[13:13] Arria Perreault: Alexia, then Jos
[13:13] You decline Sweet Whispers ~ Magnolia Design, Sweet Whisper (184, 236, 21) from A group member named stella Ponsford.
[13:13] Alexia Carnell: Thank you arria
[13:14] Alexia Carnell: it’s great for me hearing that you are discussin about priorities
[13:14] Alexia Carnell: it’s not only a matter of “formal decision” – i think that RA’s responsibility is to define priorities; only RA can do this, not the chancellor nor a single citizen, nor the NG itself.
[13:14] Alexia Carnell: as a citizen i can express my opinion which you already know
[13:15] Alexia Carnell: Locus Amoenus to my opinion
[13:15] Alexia Carnell: Is no doubt an economic priority (we lose much money evry month in LA),
[13:15] Alexia Carnell: 2) an aesthetic priority (if we want to attract ppl it cant be abandoned like it is now)
[13:15] Alexia Carnell: 3) a “buisness model” opportunity, yes, we have the opportunity to try new sim business models, i’d rather say we ought to do that
[13:16] Alexia Carnell: this said
[13:16] Alexia Carnell: i want to add a few lines on the NG organization
[13:16] Alexia Carnell: Sorry to speak as a newcomer, but my feeling is that NG risks to be pretty unefficient
[13:16] Alexia Carnell: I will warmly recommend an organization based on local sim cohordinators
[13:17] Alexia Carnell: i’ll talk about this more deeply in next NG meeting
[13:17] Alexia Carnell: thanks for now
[13:17] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:17] Alexia Carnell: doner
[13:17] Arria Perreault: someone else?
[13:17] josjoha Resident: yes raises hand
[13:18] Arria Perreault: Jos
[13:18] josjoha Resident: I think it
where best if the NG was a streamlined
organization about building in
the sims, not education or other roles. Simplicity
means efficiency and transparency. Secondly
there is the issue with too few active ppl to perhaps have
the NG have an independent ‘Secretary.’
Therefore I hope the RA will – for example –
ask the NG charter to be written new from scratch..
I think it will be good if this charter is a short one.
I wonder why the role of ‘Secretary’ is taken as
heavily, so that this role can so easily become a point
of contention. Perhaps the NG can facilitate local sim
build teams that do minor maintenance in the sim they
live ? Maybe this could fast-track issues such as
Alexia meant ?
The charter may have worked earlier because it
was tailored to a social condition that existed then.
That charter was made for then, with more experience
we can now write one that may work for more social
conditions, in particular the current one.
Maybe i’m seeing it wrong, just my impressions.
Ty, done.
[13:19] Arria Perreault: you also suggest a local sim build team :-)

[13:19] Sudane Erato raises hand
[13:19] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:19] Arria Perreault: Sudane
[13:20] josjoha Resident: yes, did that in NG too; kindof a national / local government thing or something i thought
[13:20] Sudane Erato: i’d like to point out that Moon set the precedent…
[13:20] Sudane Erato: that the NG is a NON-political organization
[13:20] Sudane Erato: it advises the RA
[13:20] Sudane Erato: and it implements what the RA wishes it to do
[13:20] Sudane Erato: done
[13:21] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I think that the discussion shows that:
[13:21] Arria Perreault: 1. the RA set the priorities
[13:22] Arria Perreault: 2. the priority should go first to LA (than NFS, than expansion)
[13:22] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:22] Arria Perreault: 3. some have expressed the idea of local teams to manage the sims
[13:22] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:23] Rosie Gray: I am not sure that we should go ahead and set a series of priorities, as things might change
[13:23] Rosie Gray: so I’d like to suggest that we pick one priority, LA for now
[13:23] Rosie Gray: and revisit when that is near accomplished
[13:23] Rosie Gray: done
[13:23] Arria Perreault: what change do you mean?
[13:23] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:23] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:23] Arria Perreault: Pip, thenFern
[13:24] Rosie Gray: I mean that fixing LA will take quite some time
[13:24] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:24] HonestHeart Resident: I must go ….
[13:24] josjoha Resident: bye Honest
[13:24] Rosie Gray: and that we should revisit the priorities when it’s nearly done
[13:24] Arria Perreault: bye bye HH, thank you for coming
[13:24] Rosie Gray: bye Heart
[13:24] Fern Leissa: Bye Honest
[13:25] Rosie Gray: and access how well it has worked
[13:25] Alexia Carnell raises hand
[13:25] Arria Perreault: Pip and Fern were first, then Alexia
[13:25] Pip Torok: when we like any organisation “set priorities” we simply mean that right now we give full attention to number one … and attend to number two ONLY if things havent changed in the meantime … thats how i understand priorites … never set in stone done
[13:25] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:25] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:26] Fern Leissa: I agree with Rosie. Let’s make LA a priority. Get that done. And then decide what is next.
[13:26] Fern Leissa: done
[13:26] Arria Perreault: Alexia
[13:26] Alexia Carnell: setting priorities on LA doesnt mean we do nothing on other sims
[13:26] Alexia Carnell: …. if we accept the principle of local teams!
[13:27] josjoha Resident: raises hand
[13:27] Alexia Carnell: we could work on parallel, just having in mind
[13:27] Rosie Gray: but that isn’t the system now Alexia
[13:27] Alexia Carnell: i am proposing am i allowed rosie??
[13:27] Arria Perreault: ROsie is right, Alexia
[13:27] Pip Torok: and right now we simply dont have enough ppl, Alexia
[13:28] Arria Perreault: I think that today we can set a priority and give a mandate to the NG
[13:28] Alexia Carnell: last NG looked crowded to me
[13:28] Rosie Gray: I happen to agree with you, Alexia, that it would be a good way to do things, but it’s not the way the NG is set up
[13:28] Alexia Carnell: and the last meeting transcription gives an idea of great confusion.
[13:28] Arria Perreault: about the local team, we have to discuss (it’s also related in my point of view with animation, not only building)
[13:28] Alexia Carnell: ok
[13:29] Arria Perreault: Jos
[13:29] Alexia Carnell: the discussion will go ahead bioth in RA and in NG right?
[13:29] josjoha Resident: I think that the NG should be able to manage multiple builds simultaneously, as it is a circle of people and there are various
[13:29] Arria Perreault: (one of the RA member could think to a motion ;-)

)
[13:29] josjoha Resident: groups there who have certain parts of the CDS in mind
[13:29] josjoha Resident: things can be talked about together, get a general idea within RA mandates, and each goes to their spots to do it.
[13:30] josjoha Resident: Secondly: both the SC and the RA referrefd things back to the NG on the Charter issue recently,
[13:30] josjoha Resident: and therefore if the NG wants to initiate local teams next meeting,
[13:30] josjoha Resident: I would think there is something to say for it having that mandate already. ty ! done
[13:31] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:31] josjoha Resident: np
[13:31] Pip Torok: imo Sudane’s reminder is especially relevant here ; the NG advises the RA … the RA sets goals … the NG implements them
[13:31] Arria Perreault: I think that we all agree about the idea to set LA as priority and to give a mandate to the NG to make proposal to the RA
[13:31] Rosie Gray nods
[13:32] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:32] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:32] Fern Leissa: I make a motion that the RA direct the New Guild to set the rebuilding of Locus Amoenus as their first priority.
[13:32] Pip Torok: seconded
[13:32] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:32] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:32] Pip Torok: aye
[13:32] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:32] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:32] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:32] Arria Perreault: motion carried
[13:32] Arria Perreault: thenk you
[13:32] josjoha Resident: (I’ve no idea what the NG advicing the RA and implementing RA mandates has to do with a new NG organization/charter, hence i did not see how to answer what appeared to be formulated as an answer to my statements.)
[13:33] Arria Perreault: I will inform the Secretary of the NG
[13:34] Rosie Gray: can we move on to the next Agenda item?
[13:34] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:34] Arria Perreault: – The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities
[13:35] Arria Perreault: first we can thank Mizou and all people who have worked with her for the quick implementation of the New CDS portal
[13:36] Sudane Erato: yay!

[13:36] Rosie Gray: yes, nice work Mizou!
[13:36] josjoha Resident: very pretty of Mizou
[13:36] Arria Perreault: we have a nice website now and much easier to manage
[13:36] Arria Perreault: now we have to migrate the content
[13:36] Fern Leissa: Thank you Mizou. looks awesome

[13:37] Mizou Vavoom nods
[13:37] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:37] Arria Perreault: this work has started and I think that this work has to be shared between several people
[13:38] Arria Perreault: if people volunteer to help, they can take contact with Mizou
[13:38] Pip Torok raises hand .. a little plaintively now …
[13:38] Arria Perreault: an other question to solve is the one of the different roles of people who work on the portal
[13:39] Arria Perreault: Pip?
[13:39] Pip Torok: i request there is good publicity when we finally go over fully to the new portal done
[13:40] Arria Perreault: good idea
[13:40] Arria Perreault: Mizou asked me to add this point to the agenda and we have worked together a proposal
[13:41] Arria Perreault: before we discuss it, I will add something
[13:41] Rosie Gray raises hand
[13:41] Arria Perreault: there are at least two laws describing the roles belonging to the portal
[13:41] Arria Perreault: (I give soon the florr, Rosie)
[13:41] Rosie Gray nods
[13:42] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we discuss the the roles first and make a clever organisation. when we agree about the principles, we can modify the existing laws
[13:43] Arria Perreault: it’sthe process I suggest to go further
[13:43] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:43] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[13:43] Rosie Gray: I think that’s a good suggestion Arria…
[13:43] Rosie Gray: I wanted to clarify in the text below the Agenda
[13:44] Rosie Gray: that I think that the word “Redactor” should be replaced with the word “Contributor”
[13:44] Rosie Gray: (since Redactor isn’t an English word)
[13:44] Rosie Gray: just to make it easier to understand
[13:44] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[13:45] Arria Perreault: maybe we should take the exact role in WordPress
[13:46] Arria Perreault: Mizou, do you want to add something before we discuss the text?
[13:46] Alexia Carnell: (redactor = editor)
[13:46] You decline Club Bella Luz ~ Windy Shores, Windy Shores (177, 155, 22) from A group member named stella Ponsford.
[13:46] Fern Leissa: Sorry Arria I didn’t understand your question about role in WordPress
[13:47] Mizou Vavoom: not really at the moment
[13:47] Mizou Vavoom: done
[13:47] Arria Perreault: some roles a re already defined in WordPress with different rights: administrator, editor, contributor and suscriber
[13:48] Arria Perreault: Webmaster=administrator
[13:48] Fern Leissa: Ah… I see what you’re referring to

The sim crashed

[13:54] Arria Perreault: sorry
[13:55] Arria Perreault: did the sim crash?
[13:55] Arria Perreault: wb Pip and Rosie
[13:55] Rosie Gray: did the sim crash?
[13:55] Arria Perreault: I guess it did
[13:56] Pip Torok: tks .. it seemed to have had a region restart
[13:57] Rosie Gray knocks on the screen and wonders if this thing is working
[13:57] Sudane Erato: ???
[13:57] Sudane Erato: oh my
[13:58] Arria Perreault: Fer is not online
[13:58] Arria Perreault: Fern*
[13:58] Alexia Carnell: heavy crash
[13:58] Rosie Gray: strange one
[13:58] Alexia Carnell: what was it?
[13:58] Arria Perreault: transcript is saved until: [13:49] [13:59] Rosie Gray: I have to go actually, sorry
[13:59] Mizou Vavoom can’t move
[13:59] Rosie Gray: and the chat is very laggy
[13:59] Arria Perreault: we can adjourn
[13:59] Arria Perreault: we continue in 2 weeks
[13:59] Mizou Vavoom: yes would be better
[13:59] Rosie Gray: yes
[13:59] Rosie Gray: thanks
[14:00] Mizou Vavoom: ok will be there
[14:00] Arria Perreault: motion and second
[14:00] Pip Torok: good idea …
[14:00] Rosie Gray: bye everyone
[14:00] Mizou Vavoom: thkx Arria
[14:00] Arria Perreault: yw
[14:00] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[14:00] Arria Perreault: Rosie is not there anymore
[14:00] Arria Perreault: no more quorum ㋡
[14:00] Pip Torok: so we’re no longer quorate!
[14:01] Arria Perreault: thank you for the meeting
[14:01] Arria Perreault: we talk in two weeks

Summary

The RA has authorized Sudane’s proposal for asset management and the ra will appoint a committee to draft legislation to outline the process for implimenting the plan. Fern Leissa has volunteered to be in this committee. The LRA will ask Soro Dagostino to be member as he volunteered in the forums.

The RA direct the New Guild to set the rebuilding of Locus Amoenus as their first priority.

The RA has started to discuss the proposal about the roles in the new Web Portal. The RA will discuss the principles first and then will make the needed changes in the code of laws. As the sim crashed, the discussion was interrupted and will continue in the next meeting.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 16 October 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. INFORMATIONS

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
– The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities

IV. NEW ITEMS
– New Guild catalogue proposal for Locus Amoenus
– New Guild finance (the formal proposal will be still discussed in a NG meeting)
– Encouragement of event’s organization (proposal: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3542)

V. Reports (if new informations are available)
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria
– CDS asset security issues: Sudane

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

New Guild catalogue proposal

That New Guild develop a catalogue of pre approved builds for LA. in the theme of the build.
That to ensure the ‘high level of build quality’ and to remain consistent with the laws of CDS, builds be submitted to the New Guild and the Chancellor to be approved.
Only when approved will a build be entered into the catalogue.
That the catalogue should designate whether the builder is a CDS citizen or not.
That each approved builder agree to provide one free to purchase build to the catalogue before they may include builds for purchase to be included into the CDS catalog
That citizens not be required to use catalogue builds on their land, in which situation the normal approval process through the Chancellor would apply.

Transcript

12:12] Arria Perreault: we can start
[12:12] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[12:15] Fern Leissa: Fine with me madame LRA
[12:15] Arria Perreault: do you agree with this agenda? I have made a change on the request of Rosie: under IV: New Guild Budget
[12:15] Pip Torok: if sudane attends can V(4) be made V(1)?
[12:15] Arria Perreault: you have to knwo that the NG has still to discuss the formal proposal
[12:16] Fern Leissa: sure V(4) can be V(1)
[12:16] Pip Torok: thank you
[12:16] Arria Perreault: New Guild catalogue proposal for Locus Amoenus? you mean that point, Pip?
[12:17] Pip Torok: no .. item FIVE (“V”)
[12:17] Pip Torok: the reports .. to ensure sdudane can develop this matter
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I have written: V. Reports (if new informations are available)
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I have added this point to the regular reports we make, as it is a project
[12:18] Arria Perreault: Sudane can come when there is something new
[12:18] Pip Torok: kk
[12:18] Arria Perreault: do you agree with the agenda?
[12:18] Fern Leissa: Yes
[12:18] Fern Leissa: Hi Tor
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Pip?
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi All
[12:19] Pip Torok: hi Tor
[12:19] Ceasar Xigalia: Hi Tor
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Hi Tor ㋡
[12:20] Pip Torok: yes ….
[12:20] Arria Perreault: thx
[12:20] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes
[12:20] Arria Perreault: I did not get any request for a 7-day vote
[12:21] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:21] Fern Leissa: Hi Udo
[12:21] Udo Swashbuckler: hello Fern
[12:22] Arria Perreault: raise the hand when you want to speak. thx
[12:22] Pip Torok: hi Udo .. welcome to your 1st RA meeting
[12:22] Ceasar Xigalia: hi udo
[12:22] Arria Perreault: Hi Udo. Welcome
[12:22] Arria Perreault: II. INFORMATIONS
[12:22] Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Udo, welcome
[12:22] Udo Swashbuckler: thank u, Tor
[12:22] Arria Perreault: no special informations today
[12:22] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia kisses udo on the cheek
[12:23] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand
[12:23] Arria Perreault: Citizen can use this time to express their concerns
[12:23] Arria Perreault: just raise the hand
[12:23] Udo Swashbuckler: 🙂
[12:23] Arria Perreault: Soro, you have the floor
[12:24] Soro Dagostino: Madame Chair I was trying to indicate I would speak on ItemV, CDS assets
[12:24] Soro Dagostino: Prior matter on the agenda
[12:24] Soro Dagostino: done
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[12:25] Arria Perreault: sorry. I will give you the floor on this point.
[12:25] Arria Perreault: Cleo, you have the floor
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Thank you.
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I am just hoping we can get all the available land actually set for sale at the correct prices. So we can all encourage as many people to joiin CDS as possible
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Some of the land is vacant and not for sale or set at teh wrong price. also it doesnt easily say what the teir is per month on the land itself. so people have difficulty knowing what the deal is. done ty
[12:28] Arria Perreault: thank you, Cleo. Tor, do you want to answer?
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: We will work on getting parcels set for sale. Sometimes they come available and we have not gotten to them fast ensough. We are going to let trebor have the power to set parcels for sale. So this should help.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: also
[12:30] Pip Torok: can we confirm that the sale price and tier on the CDS Master Parcel List is uptodate? then private owners can update their own boards
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Only the EO can modify the parcel name to include the tier for the parcel. I think this is a good idea. I will ask Sudane to make sure this is done.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Also
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: let me take this opportunity to mention that I am going to lower prices on CDS parcels.
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: This will be an end of term special.
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I am going to set prices to about 1.5 per sqm on single prim land adn about 3L per sqm on double prim land
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Also
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry to be such a hog
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: but
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I have to mention that Cleo has been working hard to find new citizens.
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Udo, here just purchased a parcel in the Monastery
[12:33] Fern Leissa: 🙂 Welcome Udo
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: and we today also have a new citizen in LA.
[12:33] Pip Torok: welcome!
[12:33] Arria Perreault: Welcome, Udo ㋡
[12:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay udo !
[12:33] Ceasar Xigalia: 🙂 Udo
[12:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: two in LA!
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: She is also an EO of the Charleston sims
[12:33] Udo Swashbuckler: thank you. Fern, Arria -and it s my pleasure to see u again- Ceasar and Tor
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I doin’t have her full name just now, but I am really excited to have these new citizens.
[12:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: her husband is an english lawyer btw:)
[12:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Karensunshine Emerald
[12:34] Pip Torok: ah .. useful!
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: In addition Shep Titian purchased two parcels in CN.
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: yes thanks Cleo
[12:34] Arria Perreault: thank you for these good news
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Karne and Shep I think are coming in with partners.
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:35] Pip Torok: are the partners intending to be citizens as well, do you know?
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes they are !
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: bells too !
[12:35] Arria Perreault: and thank you for all who are making efforts to get new citizen in CDS
[12:35] Arria Perreault: I have two suggestions:
[12:36] Arria Perreault: 1. Tor, can you make a notice about the prices, so everyone knows and can advertise by friends. you could use our new portal that has a blog
[12:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[12:37] Arria Perreault: 2. we should have a welcome party
[12:37] Arria Perreault: Cleo
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: yes I agree will
[12:37] Pip Torok: agree …
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i agree with everything you said, also evryone get new people here.. BUT
[12:37] Pip Torok: the Tanzhaus is available
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i have an issue about the web portal
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: there are links to blogs on it . mizous for example is a blog
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the first link is to her shop
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but i was told my blog is unacceptable because its to my shop
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so can i do a blog with a link to my shop and have it on there, and who is making these decisions ?
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[12:38] Pip Torok: who told you this CLEO?
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: mizou
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and you pip
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you told bells hers is not acceptable
[12:38] Pip Torok: not me …
[12:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you talked to bells about it sir
[12:39] Arria Perreault: ok. we have this point in the agenda. We will make a bil about the use of the portal. I suggest we discuss this point.
[12:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty done.
[12:39] Pip Torok: I discussed aspects of her build when she requested my opinion
[12:39] Arria Perreault: any other concerns?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I suggest we go further in the agenda
[12:40] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
– The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities
[12:42] Arria Perreault: we have a proposal for a bill about the use of this portal. I have added a point to be discussed about the the blog. Now Cleo has an other issue that we have to handle: which blogs can we link on the portal.
[12:42] Arria Perreault: Mizou is not there today
[12:43] Fern Leissa raises hand
[12:43] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:43] Fern Leissa: Madame lra I’d like to suggest that we consider allowing as many CDS community related links as possible
[12:43] Fern Leissa: That would include links to businesses
[12:44] Soro Dagostino: me/ raises hand
[12:44] Fern Leissa: links to personal citizens pages… the more we have the richer the blog
[12:44] Fern Leissa: done
[12:44] Arria Perreault: I agree. Can you propose a text to add to the bill?
[12:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it makes us seem alive and vibrant with lots of citizens who do lots of things 🙂
[12:45] Fern Leissa: thinking…
[12:46] Pip Torok wd point out that Ferns proposal is in the spirit of the DPU Platform
[12:46] Arria Perreault: Maybe we should also make a page about the different shops and commerces of CDS
[12:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia rolls her eyes :/ is it allowed to campaign during a meeting ?
[12:47] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:47] Arria Perreault: we have a civil servant who is responsible to make such a list
[12:47] Arria Perreault: Calli, you have the floor
[12:48] Callipygian Christensen: Pages can become outdated, but blog links are a reasonable thing to add in..and no reason they cant fall under headings ‘personal blogs, commercial blogs, political blogs..then all can be linked
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: some separation is nice so people can choose not to see political or commercial if they want..but thats about all the vetting it needs
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: done
[12:49] Fern Leissa raises hand
[12:49] Arria Perreault: thank you for your suggestion, Calli
[12:49] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:50] Soro Dagostino: I join with Calli on that point
[12:50] Pip Torok: and I too
[12:50] Arria Perreault: I too
[12:50] Fern Leissa: I was just rereading the roles of the CDS Web Portal
[12:50] Fern Leissa: It already says that the CDS Blog is open to every Citizen
[12:51] Fern Leissa: and specifically references shops
[12:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[12:51] Fern Leissa: So I am unclear why CLEO was told she could not link
[12:51] Arria Perreault: well .. there is the blog and the list of blogs of other poeple
[12:51] Ceasar Xigalia: Hi Jo
[12:51] Fern Leissa: Hi Jo
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Jo
[12:51] Udo Swashbuckler: welcome Jo
[12:51] Pip Torok: Hi Jo
[12:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Joe is a new resident / citizen LA
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry crashed
[12:52] Fern Leissa: wb Tor
[12:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: mizou said its not allowed because its about my shop 🙂
[12:52] Arria Perreault: in the column at the link, there is a box: CDS Bloggers. I think that Cleo is talking about that
[12:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: let me look
[12:53] Fern Leissa: And may merchants have shops in more than one sim. I can’t see that it really makes sense to deny them access to the Blog unless they only have a shop here; rather if they have at least one… they should be able to use the blog
[12:53] Fern Leissa: done
[12:53] Pip Torok wd appreciate what mizou actually said and the context within which she said it
[12:54] Callipygian Christensen would appreciate coming up with a suggestion of what should be , instead of wasting time on what may or may not have been said in error.
[12:54] Arria Perreault: I agree, Pip. We can discuss this point, but we need to have the opinion of Mizou
[12:54] Pip Torok: god point, Calli
[12:54] Arria Perreault: we can postpone this point to the next meeting. I will inform Mizou
[12:56] Arria Perreault: (in this case, I need a motion, a second)
[12:58] Fern Leissa: I make a motion that we postpone discussion of the new CDS Web Portal until the next ra meeting
[12:58] Arria Perreault: Fern, Pip, do you want we postpone this point?
[12:58] Arria Perreault: a second?
[12:58] Pip Torok: i agree to postpone
[12:58] Pip Torok: second
[12:58] Arria Perreault: vote
[12:59] Pip Torok: aye
[12:59] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:59] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:59] Arria Perreault: thx
[12:59] Arria Perreault: Next point on the agnda
[13:00] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS
– New Guild catalogue proposal for Locus Amoenus
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I have got a notecard from the New Guild Secretary, Caesar, with a a catalog of proposals for LA
[13:01] Arria Perreault: the list is in the box
[13:01] Arria Perreault: Caesar, will you comment it ?
[13:01] Ceasar Xigalia: yes certainly
[13:01] Ceasar Xigalia: The New Guild met yesterday
[13:02] Ceasar Xigalia: and in keeping with the request from the RA
[13:02] Ceasar Xigalia: we looked at how builds in Locus could be encouraged
[13:02] Ceasar Xigalia: We had previously consider the concept of a catalogue of builds
[13:03] Ceasar Xigalia: I put a darft proposal to yesterdays meeting
[13:03] Ceasar Xigalia: this was discussed and amended by the meeting
[13:03] Ceasar Xigalia: a vote taken to aprove it in NG
[13:03] Ceasar Xigalia: and to pass it to the RA for consideration
[13:04] Ceasar Xigalia: I’m not sure if it will need a new law if the RA wishes to have this happen?
[13:04] Ceasar Xigalia: done
[13:04] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:04] Arria Perreault: thank you , Caesar
[13:04] Arria Perreault: Pip, you have the floor
[13:06] Pip Torok: thank you ceasar … I see one loophole .. when the candidate build is presented for approval into he catalog .. WHO in the NG approves it or is it the NG collectively? done
[13:07] Ceasar Xigalia: Do you wish me to comment Madame LRA?
[13:08] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:08] Arria Perreault: in the NG Charter, there is a Building Approval Committee (BAC) will be a consulting body that will help the Chancellor to pre-approve plans for the private development of sims, as well pre-approve private buildings according to covenants, and help survey the quality of contracted content. The BAC must not be less than two members, and always be an even number. Non-citizen Faculty members cannot belong to the BAC.
[13:09] Ceasar Xigalia: I see it as primarily approval by the Chancellor who may ask the NG collectively to asses a build
[13:09] Ceasar Xigalia: done
[13:09] Pip Torok: thank you, Ceasar
[13:09] Arria Perreault: I don’t think that the RA has to approve the buildings. It is a matter between the NG and the Chancellor
[13:09] Ceasar Xigalia: I understand the BAC, bur=t it is inanactive at this time
[13:10] Ceasar Xigalia: The NG could attempt to activate the BAC
[13:10] Arria Perreault: the NG advices, and the Chancellor approve
[13:11] Ceasar Xigalia: Thats how I see it, I agree madame LRA
[13:11] Arria Perreault: yes, Caesar, it’s a good way. The BAC is a part of the Faculty. Anyway, the NG can reactivate this BAC and design some members
[13:11] Ceasar Xigalia: 🙂
[13:13] Arria Perreault: do we have to approve your proposal? I don’t think it’s necessary
[13:13] Ceasar Xigalia: We would appreciate an approval by RA
[13:13] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:14] Arria Perreault: Fern, Pip, are you ready to vote this proposal or do you wan to discuss it?
[13:14] Fern Leissa: I am ready to vote on the proposal
[13:14] Pip Torok: no discussion from me mme lra
[13:14] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:14] Pip Torok: aye
[13:14] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:14] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:15] Arria Perreault: thank you to the NG and its Secretary for this work on LA ㋡
[13:15] Ceasar Xigalia: Thank you… we willtake this forward
[13:15] Arria Perreault: next point
[13:16] Arria Perreault: _ New Guild Budget
[13:16] Arria Perreault: A proposal is not yet ready. Maybe Caesar can nform us about this point
[13:16] Ceasar Xigalia: Certainly
[13:17] Ceasar Xigalia: There have been a number of discussions on the forums about the finances for the New Guild as an NGO
[13:17] Ceasar Xigalia: we touched on it breifly at a NG meeting 2 weeks ago too
[13:18] Ceasar Xigalia: Rose Springvale has made a concrete proposal for land held by NG and finances
[13:18] Ceasar Xigalia: its on the NG forum pages
[13:18] Ceasar Xigalia: we were going to discuss it yesterday on the agenda
[13:18] Ceasar Xigalia: but ran out of time
[13:18] Ceasar Xigalia: it is on the agenda for next week
[13:18] Ceasar Xigalia: done
[13:19] Ceasar Xigalia: ty
[13:19] Arria Perreault: thank you. Inform us as soon as the proposal is ready and publish the dfinal draft on the forum
[13:20] Arria Perreault: Next point
[13:20] Ceasar Xigalia: Yes i will, of course
[13:20] Arria Perreault: – Encouragement of event’s organization
[13:20] Jo Renierd: /me
[13:21] Arria Perreault: Jo, if you want to speak about that, I will give you the floor later
[13:21] Arria Perreault: let me introduce the topic
[13:21] Jo Renierd: have to leave may i be excused
[13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 🙂
[13:22] Arria Perreault: we had a discussion about the way we can bring more animations on our sims
[13:22] Callipygian Christensen: You dont need permission Jo..just head on out..and have a great afternoon 🙂
[13:22] Pip Torok: certainly Jo … audience members dont normally need to ask
[13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nice to have you !
[13:22] Arria Perreault: yes, Jo, feel free to leave
[13:22] Ceasar Xigalia: take care Jo
[13:22] Fern Leissa: Bye Jo
[13:23] Jo Renierd: thank you
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Jo
[13:23] Jo Renierd: Bye all for now
[13:23] Arria Perreault: I have started a discussion in the forum wita proposal
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for coming by
[13:23] Arria Perreault: with a*
[13:23] Arria Perreault: The idea of this Act is to define the financial help as well the material help (communication, use of public space)
[13:24] Arria Perreault: for citizen who organize events or any other animations
[13:24] Udo Swashbuckler: I m sorry i must log for now too. just I d like to know where i could read the whole transcription of the assembly today, i feel interested about it
[13:24] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:24] Arria Perreault: In my point of view, it replaces the system of the regional committees that is now totally sleeping.
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: tc Udo
[13:24] Arria Perreault: yes, Udo, we publish the transcription
[13:25] Callipygian Christensen: transcripts are posted to the CDS Forums Udo
[13:25] Arria Perreault: Pip, you have the floor
[13:25] Udo Swashbuckler: great to know this. thank you very much
[13:25] Pip Torok: mme lra
[13:25] Fern Leissa: It is here Udo http://forums.slcds.info/
[13:25] Pip Torok: at present we have semiformal adhoc arrangements which seem to work ..
[13:26] Pip Torok: are we not perhaps “guilding the lily” with this proposal? done
[13:27] Arria Perreault: what is this semiformal adhoc arrangement?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Well basically the exec has planed events.
[13:27] Pip Torok: being semiformal and adhoc it is by definition impossible to define, with respect, mme lra
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: if anyone would like to suggest an event I would be very open to suggestions.
[13:28] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:29] Fern Leissa: I like that idea of having some guidelines for receiving funding for private events as that helps keep fair and evenly available to citizens
[13:29] Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
[13:29] Fern Leissa: I also like the idea of asking citizens to take more initiative. that’s kinda the whole idea behind CDS
[13:29] Fern Leissa: done
[13:30] Arria Perreault: Tor
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: First I would say I would welcome more privately organized events. also
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a simi private use for CDS event money on my To DO list
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: The New Guild would like to organize a fun raising event. While events are usually not given to support any single group, I would be open to allowing an NG tip jar at the venue.
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not exactly sure if I can allow that however.
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: tho am leaning in that direction.
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: sone
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[13:33] Arria Perreault: why not have a law which say exactly what can expect organizators of events?
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[13:34] Arria Perreault: tip jars are not included
[13:35] Arria Perreault: this bill is also about the material help the Executive can bring to organizators like communication channels or public prims
[13:35] Arria Perreault: it sais also how citizen can apply and what informations they have to give
[13:36] Arria Perreault: it would improve maybe the updating of the different communication channels, especuially the CDS event calendar
[13:37] Arria Perreault: other comments?
[13:38] Fern Leissa question
[13:38] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:39] Fern Leissa: So if I understand correctly.. The Chancellor would be required to request x amount for support of material assistance to private citizens at the start of each term
[13:39] Fern Leissa: Then he/she could distribute based on who applied and how much they needed until the fund was exhausted?
[13:39] Fern Leissa: Correct?
[13:39] Fern Leissa: done
[13:40] Arria Perreault: yes. it’s like today. there is an amount for the regional committees and an amount for the events of the Exec
[13:40] Fern Leissa: ok. Thanks. That’s good
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I have not used the regional committies this term.
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry keep crashing
[13:41] Arria Perreault: Calli
[13:42] Fern Leissa: wb Tor
[13:42] Callipygian Christensen: In the interest of speeding up things on the agenda – since you have posted about this on the forums, and invited input, why not leave it for now and those here know to post nput there also?
[13:42] Callipygian Christensen: ‘input’
[13:42] Pip Torok welcomes this
[13:43] Arria Perreault: I agree, Calli. I was about to make this suggestion too
[13:43] Arria Perreault: we will discuss this point in the next meeting
[13:43] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:44] Arria Perreault: V. Reports (if new informations are available)
[13:44] Arria Perreault: Pip, do you have something new about marketing?
[13:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: :0
[13:45] Pip Torok: not anything new .. just developments on attracting thinking ppl to CDS
[13:45] Arria Perreault: thx
[13:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: pip is doing his best to run off new citizens:)
[13:46] Arria Perreault: – Sims animation: Arria: we have started to discuss myy proposal
[13:46] Pip Torok: not true CLEO .. that is an incredible remark
[13:46] Arria Perreault: – CDS asset security issues: Sudane
[13:46] Soro Dagostino: I can comment.
[13:46] Arria Perreault: Soro, you have asked to talk about this point
[13:46] Pip Torok: Let new citizens comment on that allegation
[13:46] Arria Perreault: you have the floor
[13:47] Soro Dagostino: Sudane and I have talked. Tenative drafts are in process.
[13:47] Soro Dagostino: More when they are done.
[13:47] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[13:48] Arria Perreault: VI. Informations from the Executive team
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[13:48] Callipygian Christensen: waves..RL calls
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Just that we have has a number of new citizens
[13:48] Arria Perreault: Tor, do you have other informations?
[13:48] Fern Leissa: Bye Calli
[13:48] Arria Perreault: thx Calli
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: we might even have 70 by the time we have elections.
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Oktoberfest went well.
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Tho was tiring
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: the group did add about 10 people during the fest. At least one person is interested in buy in after visiting during the fest
[13:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay for octoberfest !
[13:49] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[13:50] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: LL had put us on the website as a Featured Event during Oktoberfest. This led to a constant steam of traffic in NFS.
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[13:50] Arria Perreault: thx
[13:50] Pip Torok challenges CLEO to provide evidence for her assertion that i attempt to “run” new citizens off CDS
[13:51] Arria Perreault: and thank you for your work on oktoberfest, you and your team
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: yw
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: thank Arria
[13:51] Arria Perreault: VII. Concerns of RA Members
[13:51] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:51] Arria Perreault: Fern
[13:51] Fern Leissa: I remain concerned about our archive of builds
[13:52] Fern Leissa: I would like to request that the Content Archivist
[13:52] Fern Leissa: present a report to the Ra
[13:52] Fern Leissa: of what we have archive copies for and which builds we still do no
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: ok I will ask Alisai to give us a report.
[13:53] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[13:53] Arria Perreault: The Content Archivist has published a list of its inventary in the forum on our request
[13:53] Arria Perreault: let me find the link
[13:53] Fern Leissa: Yes.. true.. but I guess my real concern is that there are still so many builds
[13:54] Fern Leissa: for which we do not have copies.
[13:54] Fern Leissa: And I do not feel any initiative is being taken to solve this problem
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me look over the list.
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we have copies of NFS walls
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Moon has the Rathaus
[13:55] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3497
[13:55] Pip Torok has waited 5 minutes for CLEO’s reply and concludes that her assertion is baseless, and so calls her integrity into doubt
[13:55] Arria Perreault: we have to find a way to go further
[13:56] Fern Leissa: Yes Exactly
[13:56] Arria Perreault: we should make a list of what should be saved and then try to get a copy
[13:56] Fern Leissa: But isn’t that the Content Archivists job?
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: well content creators are suppoed to give the CA a copy.
[13:57] Arria Perreault: I am not sure
[13:57] Arria Perreault: we really have to make this list first
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: I beleive ususally the NG will contract with builders and that is a stipulaton.
[13:58] Fern Leissa: Ok. Well perhaps that is the problem. But I do think that as a community we need to move on this. While we can still reach some of the builders
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: we can add the old and new kirche to the list.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: we have copies of them
[13:58] Fern Leissa: So…. possibly the NG could make this a project?
[13:58] Arria Perreault: Tor, can you make sure that the old and the new Kirche are given to the Content Archivisit?
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: I will
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure tho that Rosie said she had.
[13:59] Arria Perreault: I think that it is a project for the NG
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps I will suggest that Alasie but the list on a spreadsheet and update it as needed.
[13:59] Fern Leissa: Ok. 🙂 Ty
[14:00] Ceasar Xigalia: the NG will be happy to take this on
[14:00] Arria Perreault: good idea, Tor and we will make a link on the portal
[14:00] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[14:00] Ceasar Xigalia: if RA wishes
[14:00] Arria Perreault: thank you Caesar
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Sudane has copies of the NFS wals
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: walls
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Looks like we need the baths and the Amphitheater too
[14:01] Arria Perreault: Fern, Pip, do you agree we give to the NG a mandate to make a list of all CDS public monuments to be archived?
[14:01] Pip Torok: agree
[14:02] Fern Leissa: I agree
[14:02] Arria Perreault: Caesar, the RA gives the NG the mandate to make a list of all CDS public monuments to be archived
[14:02] Fern Leissa: we request that they make a list of all CDS public monuments and buildings
[14:03] Fern Leissa: That would be most helpful
[14:03] Ceasar Xigalia: the NG will do this
[14:03] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt wonders who has the Praetorium.
[14:03] Arria Perreault: next point: VIII. Announcements
[14:04] Arria Perreault: if there is no announcement, we can adjourn
[14:05] Pip Torok: 😉
[14:05] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: woot!
[14:05] Arria Perreault: thank you for the meeting (2 hours)

Summary

The proposal of the New Guild has been accepted.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 30 October 2011

Agenda

I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
b. 7-day votes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.

II. INFORMATIONS

II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)

III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
– The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities
– Encouragement of event’s organization (proposal: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3542)

IV. NEW ITEMS
– Acquisition of “second hand sims” with grandfathered tier (proposal Sudane Erato)
– Discussion about reinstating CDSL -13-07- Terms Limit Act

V. Reports (if new informations are available)
– Sims upgrade: Rosie
– Marketing (to increase the number of citizen): Pip
– Sims animation: Arria
– CDS asset security issues: Sudane

VI. Informations from the Executive team

VII. Concerns of RA Members

VIII. Announcements

IX. Adjournment

Proposal of acquisition of sims

To my fellow citizens and members of the Representative Assembly:

On the evening of the 25th Tor, Anna, Trebor, and Ceasar held a meeting to discuss the proposal
you are reading. Our community has been presented with an opportunity that we personally feel
should be given some serious consideration. Sudane has offered to transfer to the CDS a few
sims she no longer needs in her other estate SLNE. We are looking at one Full sim and three
Homestead sims. These four sims are all currently billed at the previous tier structure of $195.00
for the Full sim and $95.00 for the Homestead sims. As I write this we are investigating whether
or not LL will allow them to be transferred with the old tier structure. We feel the possibility is
there being that the sims are owned by the same individual and it would just be a transfer from
one estate to the other estate. There is no need for further discussion if the grandfathered tier
won’t be transferred.

We will now explain the technical details that make this opportunity a feasible investment. We
would suggest we make the Full sim a double-prim sim and keep the private to public land ratio
close to what we have in Locus Amoenus. We can discuss what size the parcels will be at a later
time but the total SQM of private land in LA is 29,184 which are 13,353 prims. We do have
some flexibility with this ratio. Alpine Meadows, our other double prim sim has 27,648sqm and
12,636 prims. The tier for this new Full sim would be the same as AM and LA, US$ 6.50 per
512sqm. The benefit for the CDS will be the fact that we pay $295.00 for AM and LA and this
sim that we acquire will only cost us $195.00. This cushion of a little extra profit will lower our
breakeven point for occupancy.

After exploring a few other estates on the grid Trebor has come up with some calculations for
the Homestead sims. Our current Homestead sim is Monastery which I believe has a prim factor
of 8.0. What I do know for a fact is that every 512sqm parcel has 234 prims. For each of the
3 Homestead sims we need to have 7,168sqm of private land with 3,279 prims. Again we can
discuss parcel size later but to keep it simple that equals (14) 512sqm parcels. Our tier rate, what
we charge the citizens, will be US$ 9.00 per 512sqm parcel a month. That is US$1.12 less than
what we collect on Monastery which is possible due to the land ratio. Full collectable tier for
each Homestead sim would be $126.00. Paying $95.00 to LL for each sim that gives us a modest
profit margin of $31.00 a sim and keeps us very competitive compared to other estates.

So what do we do with these sims? Obviously we can’t afford to let them sit unoccupied for very
long. We threw some basic ideas out there just to get people to visualize the possibilities but
obviously the final decision lies with all of us as citizens. There has been chatter over the years
about extending NFS and relocating the Schloss. This would free up prims in NFS which might
allow us to have prim parcels for citizens of NFS. This new Full sim would be a double prim sim
which works out nice if we go with small, assorted parcels like NFS currently uses. Please keep
in mind though that the purpose of this proposal is NOT to decide what we are going to do with
the sims if we take possession of them. The proposal is to accept these sims if and only if we are
able to secure them with the old tier structure through LL.

The following two paragraphs are from Trebor. The (3) Homestead sims would work wonderful,
in my opinion, as water/island sims. I understand that some may feel we should stick to the
original CDS General Master Plan and I do respect those opinions but I feel the GMP limits
us too much. The GMP calls for sim types that aren’t as popular as they use to be and I feel it
restricts our creativity. The CDS can be a community of many themes. We don’t have to be
all Roman, or all Alpine, or all Steampunk, or all Gorean or all this and that. We can be ALL
of these things because the common thread that binds us all together is our democracy. No
matter what themes we bring online they will all be under the umbrella of the Confederation of
Democratic Simulators, SL’s oldest and active democratically ran community.

I would use these (3) Homestead sims as a buffer separating the original (5) sims from whatever
themed sims we bring online in the future. My suggestion would be to place these 3 sims at the
corner of LA. The first one goes directly North of LA which would put it adjacent to one of the
AA sims. The second sim would go directly to the West of the new sim. The last sim would go
on the west side of LA where the quay and waterfront is. By making these island sims with the
majority of sqm being open water it allows us to have whatever we like on the other side of them
without having to worry about the bleeding of sims.

Tor also mentioned the idea of placing a homestead sim next to Monastery where the landscape
would end with some beautiful waterfront cliffs.

Our official proposal is as follows: The CDS accept the offer of (3) Homestead sims and (1) Full
sim, on the contingency they are accepted at the previous tier structure of $195 and $95.

We are under a very short time period. Physical possession must be taken before November 9th
or the sims will revert back to Linden Labs. Ideally we feel if it can be voted on and approved
at the RA meeting this Sunday the 30th than that would give us enough time to work out the
details with Linden Labs. Please remember that even with the RA approval this deal will NOT
go through if we don’t receive the grandfathered tier.

So that covers the basics folks. I look forward to everyone’s thoughts and opinions on the matter.

(sent by Trebor Warcliffe by mail to Arria Perreault, LRA)

Transcript

[12:04] Arria Perreault: we can start
[12:04] Callipygian Christensen: Hi new arrivals
[12:04] Ceasar Xigalia: Hi all
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi fern!
[12:04] Ceasar Xigalia: 🙂
[12:04] Arria Perreault: the agenda is in the box
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hello everyone. Sorry to be late
[12:05] Arria Perreault: Hi Cleo
[12:05] Arria Perreault: I. ADMIN (10 min)
a. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
[12:06] Arria Perreault: do you agree with the agenda ? any remarks?
[12:06] Pip Torok: mme lra may i suggest IV-1 comes directly after citizens concerns?
[12:06] Pip Torok: ie trebors item
[12:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia coughs
[12:07] Arria Perreault: yes, I know that we have to take a decision quickly
[12:07] Arria Perreault: other remarks?
[12:08] Rosie Gray: I agree with Pip
[12:08] Arria Perreault: Sonja, Fern?
[12:08] Sonja Strom: I am ok with it either way.
[12:09] Fern Leissa: I agree w/ Pip
[12:09] Arria Perreault: I suggest to take new items before items to be continued. I don’t see Mizou online (Portal).
[12:10] Arria Perreault: do you all agree?
[12:10] Sonja Strom: agree
[12:10] Rosie Gray: yes
[12:10] Fern Leissa: agree
[12:10] Pip Torok: agree
[12:10] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have a problem ms LRA
[12:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: please look in the Audience
[12:11] Arria Perreault: a problem?
[12:12] Arria Perreault: b. 7-day votes: we are complete today
[12:12] Arria Perreault: c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
[12:12] Arria Perreault: does anyone in the audience intend to speak?
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Only for the sim discussion
[12:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i see a airplain e here
[12:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can we get rid of the griefer first
[12:13] Arria Perreault: just raise the hand during the meeting
[12:14] Arria Perreault: II. Concerns of Citizens (15 min max)
[12:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Your viewer must be old — the plane was detached a while ago.
[12:14] Sonja Strom does not see an airplane
[12:14] Arria Perreault: wo wants to speak?
[12:14] Rosie Gray: I don’t see an airplane
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: My viewer is updated and brand new i still see it
[12:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i do have the old viewer and photographs
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen doesn’t see it
[12:14] Arria Perreault: me neither
[12:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: I do, Mme LRA
[12:15] Arria Perreault: (old viewer)
[12:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia gave you Snapshot : Praetorium, Colonia Nova (20, 163, 41).
[12:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: You’re already aware, but it seems we have a covenant issue in Monastery.
[12:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Someone’s built a Roman house in an Alpine sim, it seems.
[12:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Will the RA direct the executive?
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we inform the Chancellor about this case
[12:17] Arria Perreault: and that we ask him to handle it
[12:17] Pip Torok: this is hamlet 3 of monastery .. I propose that the Chancellor or one of the Execs liaise with the owner with a view to making the edifice conformable with the Covenant
[12:18] Rosie Gray nods in agreement
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, Mme LRA and RA members.
[12:18] Arria Perreault: I think that hte opinion of the RA is clear
[12:18] Arria Perreault: other concerns?
[12:19] Arria Perreault: by the way Cleo sent me a snapshot with this airplane
[12:19] Pip Torok: can we vote on this, mme lra?
[12:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: brb
[12:19] Arria Perreault: if anyone can send it back …
[12:20] Rosie Gray: hard to send back something youcan’t see!
[12:20] Callipygian Christensen: Arria..it was a Worn object..the visual of it is an SL artifact
[12:20] Pip Torok: revenons a nos moutons, madame LRA
[12:20] Bromo Ivory: I see nothing
[12:20] Callipygian Christensen: those who see it could perhaps just aim thier camera elsewhere
[12:20] Trebor Warcliffe: I see it but I’m not concerned with it
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, I apologise if some can still see the plane that I was wearing…
[12:20] Rosie Gray snickers
[12:21] Arria Perreault: ok. ㋡
[12:21] Rosie Gray: perhaps we can move on?
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: And if some are not able to attend their minds elsewhere like M. Warcliffe has.
[12:21] Sonja Strom: I see nothing, and have looked at the objects on the land — not any of them are from anyone who is not a CDS citizen.
[12:21] Arria Perreault: Pip wanted to vote on this question
[12:21] Arria Perreault: it was not on the agenda
[12:21] Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
[12:21] Pip Torok: do i have a second for my motion?
[12:21] Rosie Gray seconds
[12:21] Arria Perreault: vote
[12:21] Pip Torok: aye
[12:22] Rosie Gray: aye
[12:22] Arria Perreault: Trebor?
[12:22] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:22] Arria Perreault: (after the vote)
[12:22] Trebor Warcliffe: I was just curious why a vote was called for an issue that is already a Chancellor duty, thats all. He just needs to be informed of it.
[12:22] Ceasar Xigalia: good point
[12:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Done
[12:22] Pip Torok: true Trebor but the feeling was that this issue was urgent
[12:23] Rosie Gray: it is our perogative
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:23] Sonja Strom: question: this vote is for the RA to ask the Chancellor to speak with the owner of the land?
[12:23] Arria Perreault: I agree, but we vote to inform him and to ask him kindly to do soemthing
[12:23] Arria Perreault: yes, Sonja
[12:23] Pip Torok: yes sonja .. ie lisise than do what he wd normally do in theses circumstances
[12:23] Arria Perreault: we can’t do more
[12:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[12:24] Arria Perreault: Cleo
[12:24] Pip Torok: is there a vote from arria and sonja?
[12:25] Sonja Strom: thank you ~ I am not against this, but if it is an Executive issue then I think we should simply speak with the Chancellor ourselves directly.
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I still wait for the vote of Sonja and I will vote too
[12:25] Sonja Strom: On the vote I abstain.
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i would like to reassure everyoen that the chancellor is aware, so is the builder and homeowner, they will meet covenents, it has been built less than 48 hours and they are wiating for a meeting with the chacnellor, it will be rural alpine
[12:25] Arria Perreault: I vote aye
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no worries. 🙂
[12:25] Arria Perreault: thank you forthe information, Cleo
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: d
[12:26] Arria Perreault: other concerns?
[12:26] Sonja Strom: In my understanding the RA is mostly a legislative branch.
[12:27] Pip Torok: that is right, sonja
[12:27] Arria Perreault: yes, Sonja. If citizen reports concerns, we have to handle them. The idea is to make requests to the Executive
[12:27] Sonja Strom: alright, I see.
[12:27] Arria Perreault: other concerns?
[12:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[12:28] Arria Perreault: Cleo?
[12:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I am not aware of anything done about the blogs, i think with the election upcoming it is very unfair that this is not attended too , special promotion to people by favoritism only in my opinoin, is there any news on that sissue
[12:29] Pip Torok: favouritism??
[12:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: only certain citizens have been alllowed to post their blogs to the CDS blogs
[12:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this was brought up last sesion
[12:30] Pip Torok rejects this
[12:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[12:30] Arria Perreault: thank you, Cleo
[12:31] Arria Perreault: we have to add this question in the act about the portal
[12:31] Arria Perreault: it is in the agenda
[12:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia rasies hand
[12:32] Rosie Gray sighs
[12:32] Arria Perreault: cleo
[12:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can they all be removed until its fairly decided please, immediately.
[12:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: prior to the election.
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Mme, LRA. I believe that Mme Xigalia is confused — having served as APIO, all CDS citizens are open to create their own blogs.
[12:32] Pip Torok feels there is no issue here
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: It is the blogger’s obligation to notify the executive branch of their blogs.
[12:32] Callipygian Christensen: Gui, the issue isnt create, its about links to those blogs form the CDS pages
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Cleo is talking about the list of bloggers on the homepag of CDS
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m aware.
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s the blogger’s obligation.
[12:33] Arria Perreault: there is a list of CDS bloggers: the question is: who can enter this list
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: Anna has a blog on the CDS yet her blog does not appear, if memory serves me right.
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: As I said, it is the obligation of the blogger to notify the executive agency.
[12:33] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:33] Rosie Gray: may I remind everyone that the new site is still under construction
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pardon, executive branch.
[12:34] Vespasian Cortes: for me blogging is fredom of speech, it should be guareanted by highest authority
[12:34] Trebor Warcliffe: It’s my understanding that some of our citizens blogs have been denied listing to the
[12:34] Arria Perreault: Cally
[12:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[12:34] Pip Torok: which it is right now, Vespasian
[12:34] Sonja Strom raises hand
[12:34] Arria Perreault: Cally first, than Cleo
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Under what grounds, Trebor?
[12:34] Callipygian Christensen: This body spent 40 minutes or more debating this LAST session, and while I would never have thought I’d find myself saying ‘Cleo is right’, in this she has a valid point.
[12:35] Arria Perreault: I would like to remind you that this point is in the agenda. I agree to erase the list if we don’t make a decision today
[12:35] Callipygian Christensen: So take last times decision of what to do and have it implemented, or just remove them all until it is decided. but dont waste another 40 minutes on another whinefest
[12:35] Arria Perreault: I agree, Cally
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Why are we arguing now, then? We have work to do.
[12:36] Pip Torok: and I agree too
[12:36] Rosie Gray: yes can we move on or we’ll never get anything done
[12:36] Arria Perreault: now we ca take the next point. the time for citizen concerns is over
[12:36] Arria Perreault: IV. NEW ITEMS
– Acquisition of “second hand sims” with grandfathered tier
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I got this request by mail from Trebor and I will give him the floor to explain us this proposal
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: TU please give me a moment to plug into elecctric
[12:38] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Back
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: For those who havent read the proposal
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Here are the absics
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: basics
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane is downsizing SLNE
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: She has offered to gift to us 1 full sim adn 3 homestead sims
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: The current tier on these sims is $195.00 for the full and $95 for each of the homesteads
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Being that she is the EO for both sims we’re trying to get LL to allow us to retain the grandfathered tier.
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Calculations have been performed
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: The full sim would be double prim
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: The homestead sims would need the equivalent of (14) 512sqm sims at US$9.00 per 512 which is US$ 1.12 less than MON
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: The full sim would be the same tier as LA and AM
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: But we’d have a nicer profit margin from the $100 discount
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Which would lower our overall occupancy requirements
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Some discussions have taken place on ideas for what to do with these sims
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: but that would be up to the citizens like it always has been
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: The only thing that needs to be decided today
[12:42] Trebor Warcliffe: Is whether we accept this gift if we can secure them at the grandfathered tier
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
[12:43] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[12:43] Trebor Warcliffe: yw
[12:44] Pip Torok raises hand
[12:44] Arria Perreault: I will give the floor first to RA members, if they have questions or remarks (I have too) and then to citizen
[12:44] Arria Perreault: Pip
[12:44] Pip Torok: has trebor the wording for a motion accepting the gift which we can discuss then vote on?? done
[12:44] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:45] Arria Perreault: Rosie
[12:45] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes it is in the proposal I can open it and paste iot here if youd like
[12:45] Pip Torok: tks
[12:45] Rosie Gray: I was just wondering what the timeline on receiving the sims would be, supposing we went ahead
[12:46] Trebor Warcliffe: We’d have to take possession no later then November 9th
[12:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats when the tier is due
[12:46] Rosie Gray: okay, thank you
[12:46] Rosie Gray: I”m done
[12:47] Fern Leissa raises hand
[12:47] Arria Perreault: Fern
[12:47] Fern Leissa: ty
[12:47] Fern Leissa: First off, I’d really like to thank Trebor for taking the initiative and running the numbers on this
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: ty
[12:48] Pip Torok: me too!
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Same…!
[12:48] Fern Leissa: If we can get these sims at the discounted rate, I believe this is an opportnity that won’t come again
[12:49] Fern Leissa: We’ve been talking about adding some water sims and a new sim next to NFS for a while
[12:49] Rosie Gray: indeed
[12:49] Fern Leissa: I think we should think seriously about grabbing this opportunity if we can have them at the discounted rate
[12:49] Fern Leissa: done
[12:49] Ceasar Xigalia: 🙂
[12:49] Pip Torok waits with relish trebors pasted Proposal
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: sorry
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: hold on
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: lol
[12:49] Arria Perreault: SOnja?
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker is excited.
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Our official proposal is as follows: The CDS accept the offer of (3) Homestead sims and (1) Full sim, on the contingency they are accepted at the previous tier structure of $195 and $95.
[12:50] Pip Torok: thanks
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: I do have one serious question before you vote
[12:50] Arria Perreault: Pip, I have some questions. Wait before to make your motion 😉
[12:51] Trebor Warcliffe: waiting for Arria
[12:51] Pip Torok: I motion that that the RA accept trebors Poposal as stands
[12:51] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:51] Sonja Strom: I am also thankful to both Sudane and Trebor for their work on this concept. I have spoken with the Executive branch about it, and it looks like a great project that can be a successful expansion of the territory of the CDS.
[12:51] Fern Leissa: lol Bromo
[12:52] Sonja Strom: So, I am in support of it.
[12:52] Pip Torok: a second?
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Pip I think Arria had some questions
[12:52] Arria Perreault: First I think that it is a good opportunity. there are several projects of sims. I would like to add in the motion a request to the new Guild to list the different sims projects that we are. Peope can submit their ideas.
[12:52] Rosie Gray: I think we were going to hear Arri’as questions first Pip
[12:52] Fern Leissa: Hi Rose
[12:52] Arria Perreault: I have also a technical question
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: It could be our Julius Ceasar expansion into Gaul.
[12:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Hi Rose !
[12:53] Pip Torok: ok, sorry folks
[12:53] Ceasar Xigalia is happy to take that into NG
[12:53] Arria Perreault: We have 2 sims with normal fees (AM and LA)
[12:53] Arria Perreault: is it possible to use the full sim to replace one of these sims and to get lower tiers
[12:53] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: I dont believe so
[12:54] Rosie Gray: I seriously doubt that LL would let us do that
[12:54] Trebor Warcliffe: The difference would be
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: That this new sim at the grandfathered tier would have a nicer profit margin which would lower the overall occupancy ratio in the CDS
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe Calli had a question?
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, she did.
[12:55] Arria Perreault: thx. Pip, do you agree to add the request to the Guild to your motion? it seems important to me to decide also the process we will have to decide how we will use these sims
[12:55] Arria Perreault: Cally
[12:55] Pip Torok: i do agree
[12:55] Callipygian Christensen: Yes, but RA members were up first..if they are done I am ready
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: I can answer Arria
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: It’s my understanding that the NG taking the lead on sim development
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: is a given
[12:56] Trebor Warcliffe: thats why it wasnt included in the proposal
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: we assumed that would automatically be the next step
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Done
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Cally
[12:57] Beathan Vale: question
[12:57] Pip Torok: amendment I do agree as long as we can get it in by the cut-off date
[12:57] Callipygian Christensen: First, I don’t think acquiring these sims is a bad idea but I have a couple of questions I think worth considering:
[12:57] Callipygian Christensen: this is a *major* decision and there are 11 citizens present – so they may not care, or they may not know.
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Response
[12:57] Callipygian Christensen: If they don’t know, this is much like the kirsche issue, where I believe a number of you felt *every* citizen should be notified by notecard to get their opinion. If that level of notification is necessary to replace a single building, shouldn’t it also be needed for an investment of anywhere from 500 – 2,000 $US or more depending on how quickly the sims are developed?
[12:58] Bromo Ivory thinks this is a smoking idea
[12:58] Bromo Ivory: THe sims, the notification is fine, but
[12:58] Trebor Warcliffe: I have posted the proposal in the forums and also sent out a CDS grooup notice to make every member aware of it
[12:58] Bromo Ivory: I wouldnt’ slow things up for it
[12:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia thinks it is a no brainer, as we are sold out now basically
[12:59] Rosie Gray: I think that Calli is making a very good point
[12:59] Trebor Warcliffe: Let me know when i can respond please
[13:00] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes thank you
[13:00] Arria Perreault: Beathan wanted to speak too
[13:00] Sonja Strom notes that Sudane has had this proposal posted in the CDS Forum for some time too.
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Like I just posted earlier when I submitted the proposal to the forum I also sent out a CDS Group Notice making all aware of the posting on the forum.
[13:00] Fern Leissa: Hi Tor
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: It is my opinion
[13:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[13:01] Bromo Ivory thinks that FREE sims at a grandfathered rate is a good deal.
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: That this is the most I could possibly do to encourage input from every citizen
[13:01] Arria Perreault: Beathan
[13:01] Pip Torok agrees with bromo
[13:01] Ceasar Xigalia: hi Tor
[13:01] Rosie Gray agrees as well
[13:01] Rosie Gray: hi Tor
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: I feel the same way about any other work that is done in the CDS
[13:01] Shep Titian: hi Tor
[13:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: is it true if we get them they are free, grandfathered tier .. that is unavailable anywhere lese, and if we dont get them we have no opportunity like this anywhere again because they are the same EO’s
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: We post it to the forums, we group notice it so all are aware
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: We cant be more informative than that
[13:02] Beathan Vale: Is the land currently developed consistent with the New England theme? If so, can we consider keeping all or part of it as built or with minor changes to minimize the time to bringing it to market?
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Those who choose to participate will those who dont wont
[13:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ture Beathan
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: It Citizens can’t read the notices, it is fairly much their fault.
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: let me catch up before i respond
[13:02] Rosie Gray: true enought, Guillaume
[13:02] Sonja Strom: Beathan, Trebor was speaking, hehe.
[13:02] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor, I would agree, except this body, RA, and many citizens, have raised conerens in the past that people dont read forums, arent in world at times and so on. I am just asking about consistency of poliicy
[13:02] Beathan Vale: sorry
[13:03] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[13:03] Arria Perreault: Cleo, then Tor after trebor’s answer
[13:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i understnad callies point but we have a time issue here that makes that not possible
[13:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and there is no valid
[13:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: reason not to do it anyone has borught up besides that
[13:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we can always abandon them too.
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Per Sudane the sims will be ours to terraform as we see fit
[13:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Callie
[13:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS now is basically sold out atm
[13:04] Trebor Warcliffe: I understand your concern but I ask you what else can we do besides what I have already done
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Not to mention our surplus…
[13:04] Trebor Warcliffe: We use the lines of communications available to us
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you ms LRA
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: First one point
[13:04] Arria Perreault: the only risk we take is to pay the tiers (580 US $) for few months
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Sundane would like to transfer the sims by Nov 9th.
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: So we have a thight time constraint
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: US$ 480 Arria
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: With regard to the theme, byond some general some lag
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: 195, 95, 95, 95
[13:05] Arria Perreault: sorry
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: no problem
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: byond some general theme dependant oupon where the RA permits us to put the sims, we would rather delay the theme issue until hafter the sims are in place.
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Debate over themes now is mostly premature
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
[13:07] Rosie Gray agrees
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Also
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: We can keep the NE theme if we deem that good, but we are not tied to it.
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[13:07] Arria Perreault: do we have to pay to tranfer he sims here?
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly we do
[13:07] Trebor Warcliffe: One thought was to place one of the sims north of LA which would be adjacent to Rose’s AA sim. Since she is here shouldn’t we ask her if she would be ok with this?
[13:08] Rosie Gray: why don’t we wait on that, Trebor
[13:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Cleo
[13:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they are already sudanes.. ?? why do we pay transfer ?
[13:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: moving fees?
[13:08] Rosie Gray: we would pay for moving them
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: yes moving fees
[13:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok but not transfer.
[13:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok ty
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Obviously we’d try to negotiate that with LL also but its not the key point
[13:09] Sonja Strom *raises hand*
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: the key point is the grandfathered tier
[13:09] Arria Perreault: Sonja
[13:09] Sonja Strom: One point I would like bring up is,
[13:09] Sonja Strom: nearly everyone I know of in the CDS feels like it should grow over time.
[13:10] Sonja Strom: The only real question then is how it should grow.
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: This is some time…!
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: we probably have to pay to move them
[13:10] Bromo Ivory thinks keeping it Sudane’s is the only way it will be cheap to us
[13:10] Sonja Strom: It seems to me this is a good opportunity, especially because it easily fits within the CDS Master Plan already in existence.
[13:10] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
[13:10] Arria Perreault: Tor
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: sorr
[13:11] Arria Perreault: My personal opinion would be to have two sims in the mountains area and two in the sea. In the same time, I think it will be to the New Guild to open this debate and to come back to the RA with proposals.
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has sent a letter to LL
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: she is asking that the sims be transferred to her alt, Rudeen in torder to keep the grandfathered rate
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: This would not include moveing and renaming fees
[13:12] Trebor Warcliffe: Again any talks on placement or theme is premature, We just need to decide if we want to take possession of them at the GF tier.
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: it will gost the CDS 150 per sim to move them to our location.
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: it will cost us 50L to change the names.
[13:13] Pip Torok strongly agrees with Trebor
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: 150$?
[13:13] Arria Perreault: it is also clear that if we don’t get the grandfathered tiers, we don’t keept them?
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: Tor wouldnt they be transferred as a group and not individually
[13:13] Sonja Strom: Arria, that is my understanding of it.
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry these amounts ar USD not Linden dollars
[13:13] Trebor Warcliffe: My proposal is no grandfather tier than we dont accept them
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, but LL charges per sim
[13:13] Rosie Gray: yes, they do charge per sim
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: If LL doesnt get back to us before the 9th than its a no go
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: The name changes should be defered until we have a theme established.
[13:14] Pip Torok: quite!
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: if LL says no you cant keep them at the GF rate its a no go
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Correct
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane will return them to LL by the 9th
[13:14] Trebor Warcliffe: or to us if we get the GF
[13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: NO GF no deal
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: the main issue here is do we wnat to authorize the exec to accept the sims per the stipulations that the rate is GFerd. and where they should go to minimize move fees.
[13:15] Arria Perreault: If I understand well, the sims will stay where they are now, but be in our possession, until we decide what we do with them?
[13:15] Callipygian Christensen: IF you believe this strongly in the potetnial of this project, offer to pay the tier for a month with them in situ if LL hasnt gotten back to Sudane, since investing that amount doesnt seem to be a concern.
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: we can do that also arria
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: If its meant to be its meant to be if its not its not
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea too Calli
[13:16] Bromo Ivory: The cost to buy a sim that is nearly zero in this case shoudl be a condsideration
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Bromo
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: May I ask one more question?
[13:16] Ceasar Xigalia: i agree
[13:16] Arria Perreault: ok Trebor
[13:16] Trebor Warcliffe: IF and this is a big IF and Im only putting it out there
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: If LL doesnt give us the GF tier would we still want to pursue it because of the cost it woudl take to purchase these sims from LL. PERSONALLY I’d much rather have them at the GF tier and for fiscal reasons it would be the best deal.
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Personally I say no
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Than we jsut expand one sim at a tiem adfn take our time
[13:18] Trebor Warcliffe: we wont be under quite as much pressure to get things done to start collecting tier
[13:18] Arria Perreault: I agree (or we can take only one)
[13:18] Fern Leissa: I agree with Trebor
[13:19] Pip Torok: me too
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: So my proposal stays the same
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: ???
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Our official proposal is as follows: The CDS accept the offer of (3) Homestead sims and (1) Full sim, on the contingency they are accepted at the previous tier structure of $195 and $95.
[13:19] Arria Perreault: are we ready for a motion?
[13:19] Pip Torok: for me yes trebor!
[13:19] Trebor Warcliffe: excellent
[13:19] Rosie Gray: yes let’s vote!
[13:20] Arria Perreault: (add the sentnce about the Guild?)
[13:20] Pip Torok: disagree Arria ..
[13:20] Arria Perreault: I need a motion
[13:20] Pip Torok: The CDS accept the offer of (3) Homestead sims and (1) Full sim, on the contingency they are accepted at the previous tier structure of $195 and $95.
[13:20] Arria Perreault: (I wont fight for this point, ok)
[13:20] Fern Leissa: second
[13:20] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:20] Pip Torok: aye
[13:20] Rosie Gray: aye
[13:20] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:21] Arria Perreault: Sonja?
[13:21] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:21] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:21] Ceasar Xigalia: yay
[13:21] Arria Perreault: motions carries
[13:21] Pip Torok: yippee!
[13:21] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[13:21] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[13:21] Rosie Gray: yay ㋡
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you now lets all hope LL agrees to it
[13:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: good work Trebor !
[13:21] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[13:22] Rosie Gray: pardon me folks, I’m afraid I have to leave
[13:22] Rosie Gray: RL is calling me
[13:22] Bells Semyorka opens champagne for everyone!
[13:22] Arria Perreault: keep us informed
[13:22] Fern Leissa: bye Rosie 🙂
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: I will
[13:22] Rosie Gray: if there are any other motions, I ask for a 7 day vote
[13:22] Arria Perreault: a 7-day vote, Rosie?
[13:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane is still working with them
[13:22] Rosie Gray: yes thanks
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope now LL is cooperative. We will hav e lots of work to do
[13:22] Pip Torok: cheers Rosie .. tks for being here
[13:22] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:22] Rosie Gray: bye everyone!
[13:22] Sonja Strom: yes
[13:22] Pip Torok: bye
[13:22] Arria Perreault: bye bye Rosie
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Rosie
[13:22] Sonja Strom: bye Rosie
[13:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Rosie!
[13:22] Arria Perreault: we have a second New item
[13:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: WOOO, CDS!
[13:22] Rosie Gray waves and poofs

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Arria Perreault
LRA

Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:14 am
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Re: RA Agenda 30th October 2011

Postby Arria Perreault » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:53 pm
[13:23] Arria Perreault: Discussion about reinstating CDSL -13-07- Terms Limit Act
[13:23] Arria Perreault: Fern, you have asked to add his point in the agenda
[13:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Can the law be posted please
[13:23] Fern Leissa: Yes, Arria 🙂 ty
[13:24] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php/cds- … e-of-laws/
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[13:25] Fern Leissa: tu Arria
[13:25] Fern Leissa: Last term the ra voted to lift term limits for the ra
[13:25] Fern Leissa: This change has not been posted to the portal
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt notes that the amended law is not posted.
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[13:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia nods
[13:26] Arria Perreault: do you have a link in the forum?
[13:26] Pip Torok: so what SHOULD the current law say?
[13:26] Fern Leissa: However, the term limits were lifted because at the time we had very few citizens
[13:26] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[13:26] Fern Leissa: and in fact had had an election where there were fewer candiates than seats
[13:27] Arria Perreault: Calli, I will give you the floor. we let finish Fern
[13:27] Fern Leissa: I would like to suggest that we have enough citizens to resind this ammendment to CDSL-13-07
[13:28] Pip Torok raises hand
[13:28] Fern Leissa: And that it is in the best interests of the community to do so as it will allow for more pp to be involved in the democratic process
[13:28] Fern Leissa: done
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Calli, then Pip
[13:28] Callipygian Christensen: My comment is relevant to the ammended law – RA chose to remove limits on itself but leave them in place for the position of Chancellor
[13:28] Bromo Ivory raises hands
[13:29] Arria Perreault: Pip
[13:29] Pip Torok: at the moment we DO have more new citizens
[13:29] Callipygian Christensen: I believe, whichever way you go..the original or amended law, it would be appropriate to have it consistent..that the chancellor position has no limits or has limits, matching those placed on RA Done
[13:29] Pip Torok: BUT they do not know any other citizens nor candidates
[13:30] Arria Perreault: you can have different limits for executive and legislative power
[13:30] Pip Torok: for them voting during tthe nexct term wd be like sticking a pin in somewhere
[13:30] Arria Perreault: Bromo
[13:30] Callipygian Christensen: You can have an LRA thats an elpahant..I am not talking about what you ‘can’ have, but about what you choose to have
[13:31] Vespasian Cortes: likes the direct democrazy more
[13:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises her hand.
[13:31] Pip Torok: So i propose that we leave this for one term only to get the new voters the time to understand and to become acquainted with candidtes
[13:31] Pip Torok: done
[13:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I would have less terms for executive than for legislative, to be clear (sorry for my bad english)
[13:32] Arria Perreault: Bromo, then Cleo
[13:33] Bromo Ivory has to go
[13:33] Bromo Ivory is up?
[13:33] Arria Perreault: Pip, does it mea that we make no change and that the next RA can decide?
[13:33] Arria Perreault: mean*
[13:33] Pip Torok: in effect yes .. we wait till this time in the new term
[13:33] Bromo Ivory thinks we need to have term limits – don’t kick the can down the road, the reason for rescinding it is no longer valid
[13:34] Bromo Ivory doesn’t like the idea of removing term limits, and then just let thingsdrift along.
[13:34] Bromo Ivory is done
[13:35] Arria Perreault: thx
[13:35] Arria Perreault: Cleo?
[13:35] Pip Torok feels that we are not driting along by holding back for one term
[13:35] Bromo Ivory: Let’s at least make it effective term following this one
[13:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CAn each sitting RA memeber please tell the audeience how many terms you have been in office atm ..
[13:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Sona?
[13:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Sonja ?
[13:36] Bromo Ivory: But let’s vote now to sunset the amendment
[13:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: For the record so we know as citizens how this will affect. Continuous terms in office.
[13:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sonja arria fern pip ?
[13:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: please
[13:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can you each tell us your current status?
[13:36] Sonja Strom: I think CLEO has asked a reasonable question.
[13:36] Arria Perreault: I had an interruption. I was not in the RA during the 14th term
[13:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: Is the RA truly going to make such a round-about decision in just under a single term?
[13:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia listens to the elected officials
[13:37] Fern Leissa: I have had twocontinuous terms in the ra CLEO
[13:38] Sonja Strom: For me, now I am concurrently in my first term. In my total time in the CDS this is my third term.
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Having served the previous terms where we did away with this clause, I believe it’s an unnecessary law in the CDS.
[13:38] Pip Torok: so how do you acquaint 30 new voters to avoid a choice they might regret given their present paucity of knowledge re candidates?
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: huh?
[13:39] Arria Perreault: I think I was 5 times in the RA with 2 interruptions
[13:39] Bromo Ivory thinks that sitting out one term and helping in other ways gets new people engaged, and keeps the people who are already here contributing in new ways
[13:39] Arria Perreault: and twice LRA
[13:39] Sonja Strom: Yes, like Arria, I was not in the RA last term 🙂
[13:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: PIP hasnt answered.
[13:39] Fern Leissa: Exactly Bromo
[13:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Can someone check the record.
[13:39] Callipygian Christensen: Pip – I am not sure about the dates, but that may be a moot point for some- isnt there a 30 requirement for voting or running for office?
[13:39] Pip Torok: i have been in 4 consecutives terms
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: How?
[13:40] Guillaume Mistwalker raises hand.
[13:41] Arria Perreault: Guillaume?
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: What exactly is the purpose for such a law that restricts terms?
[13:41] Bromo Ivory: Can we sunset the repeal after this next election? We’ll have new sims coming on line and many many new citizens
[13:41] Fern Leissa raises hand
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Are we all truly afraid that one wil gain a dictatorship here?
[13:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises her hand.
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: If we are, Mme LRA, I would call us all paranoid.
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: This law is UNNECESSARY.
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s why I voted it down during my term.
[13:42] Bromo Ivory thinks it is not danger of dictatorship but discouraged new citizens leaving since they will have fewer opportunities to participate
[13:42] Arria Perreault: you have to read the debates of the RA concerning this law, Guillaume
[13:42] Vespasian Cortes: likes direct democraty more & more
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: It will not, in anyway, truly have much democratic affect on the affairs of the CDS.
[13:42] Rose Springvale: raises hand
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Do citizens here truly not see this assembly as being deocratic?
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pardon, democratic?
[13:43] Arria Perreault: Rose (who was LRA at the time we have voted this law, I think)
[13:43] Pip Torok: everytime an election comes up there is that opportunity bromo
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: I vehemently oppose this unnecessary addition of law to our code.
[13:43] Rose Springvale: Thank you. Here is a link to the discussion, which was the subject of a term long commission chaired by Gwyneth Llewelyn
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Done.
[13:43] Rose Springvale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3026&p=16253&hilit=electoral#p16253
[13:43] Bromo Ivory thinks that we removed the code
[13:44] Bromo Ivory thinks we should have it back
[13:44] Rose Springvale: makes sense to review and consider for an election after the one at hand.
[13:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: We did. And now people want to add it back?
[13:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: We removed it for the reason that it made no sense to have it.
[13:44] Pip Torok: agrees with Rose
[13:44] Rose Springvale: the commission and the RA that adopted the law was much broader based than the RA thet repealed it. Done.
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: We are here in SL for fun and as a hobby. Who in their right mind wants that burden over some extended amount of time?
[13:45] Bromo Ivory hopes that for all of our rhetoric about democratic participation and involvement that we can keep the avenues for particiaption open and clear
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: And how would this law make such so, Bromo?
[13:46] Pip Torok: theyre clear everytime we have an election, Bromo
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Pip.
[13:46] Bromo Ivory: By having people cycling through new citizens will have more of a shot at sitting on RA
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: The more candidates we have, the more demcratic our elections are.
[13:46] Bromo Ivory: No, Pip, I see the same folks in RA all the time.
[13:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Democracy is about LAWS not “knowing” people personally. It is about campaigning on issues and being aware of what is gong on in our community . We have the forums, we have debates.
[13:46] Pip Torok: but new ppl can cycle thru whenever an election comes up, bromo
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s because the citizens elect them into office because Hey! know them.
[13:47] Arria Perreault: if I see the calendar, if we don’t make a decision today, it will not be valid for the next election
[13:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Bromo how long have you been in CDS ?
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: I was elected and I didn’t sit on the RA for some long time.
[13:47] Bromo Ivory: And the citizens who come in and are locked out – will drift away, we stagnate and fail as a sim
[13:47] Callipygian Christensen: so call the question Madame LRA, if there is an actual question
[13:47] Bromo Ivory: I have been here for years
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: How are tey locked ot?
[13:47] Ceasar Xigalia agrees with Bromo
[13:47] Fern Leissa: I agree with Bromo
[13:47] Pip Torok: locked out??? …. who is locking who out, bromo?
[13:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia agrees with Bromo
[13:47] Bells Semyorka agrees with bromo
[13:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: four terms pip ?
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: 1 term, CLEO.
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: The people have elected Pip 4 times, mind.
[13:48] Pip Torok: but voted for each time and cd have failed each time
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: That IS democracy.
[13:48] Bromo Ivory: And I am not so sure why you guys are so against it – what harm does it do?
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: What harm is there to pass this law, Bromo?
[13:48] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see none.
[13:48] Arria Perreault: DO we want to limit (again) hte number of terms in continuity in the RA?
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: There is no Julius Caesar here.
[13:48] Bromo Ivory: We do know that well known people will tend to be retained, and new people won’t get in
[13:48] Pip Torok: because it is the will of the voters, bromo
[13:48] Fern Leissa: It is not just that pp will have the opportunity to run for ra but that they understand they have a responsibility to participate
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: There is no Mussolini here.
[13:49] Bromo Ivory: It is not in conflict with democratic principles to have term limits, guys
[13:49] Pip Torok: if that is so, then it is inherent in a candidate, bromo
[13:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: There is no man or woman here who is a dictator! And yet you cower as if they are lurking in the alleys!
[13:49] Bromo Ivory: If we have the same makeup of RA – the new citizens will be discouraged and leave
[13:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: No.
[13:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: I wasn’t discouraged.
[13:49] Bromo Ivory: Our enemy isn’t any one person or some sort of dictatroship – but discouragement and apathy
[13:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: When I was new, I wasn’t discouraged.
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: If you’re truly so old, I’m new then.
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
[13:50] Pip Torok: how can they be discouraged if they have their chance every term, bromo?
[13:50] Arria Perreault: If we limit the number of terms, we have to say how many terms in continuity
[13:50] Arria Perreault: Trebor
[13:50] Bromo Ivory: Because they really don’t, Pip.
[13:50] Rose Springvale: would someone call the question please?
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: I was elected because of the democratic will of thepeople.
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Im on the fence about the actual issue being discussed BUT
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Just as everoyone else on the RA has.
[13:50] Pip Torok: i dont see that, bromo …
[13:50] Bromo Ivory will quiet down now
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Id liek to point out two elections ago
[13:50] Trebor Warcliffe: We didnt have enough candidates to run for RA BUT
[13:51] Arria Perreault: do you have a proposal, Fern?
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: we didnt know this until after the deadline to submit
[13:51] Vespasian Cortes: thinks about Lobbying (also lobby) is the act of attempting to influence decisions made by officials in the government, most often legislators or members of regulatory agencies.
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: was over with
[13:51] Sonja Strom: Would anyone like to propose the actual text for a motion?
[13:51] Fern Leissa: Can we vote on reinstating or not reinstating CDSL-13-07 “No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession
Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law”
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: Maybe if people declared earler thqan teh deadline
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: it woudl give others time to decide if they want to run or not
[13:51] Trebor Warcliffe: I know both Guill and I were new back htan
[13:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: I was the only RA member who was elected that term, Trebor.
[13:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes.
[13:52] Sonja Strom: Good text, Fern, thank you.
[13:52] Trebor Warcliffe: and both of us would have stood for the regular election if we kneow there wansnt enough candidates
[13:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: We both were the only ones to be voted on ㋡
[13:52] Arria Perreault: any second?
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: True, we had to have a special election
[13:52] Sonja Strom: I second.
[13:52] Arria Perreault: vote
[13:52] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:52] Sonja Strom: aye
[13:52] Pip Torok: nay
[13:53] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Classic CDS.
[13:53] Arria Perreault: motions carries. this vote is submitted to a 7-day vote
[13:53] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[13:53] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:53] Guillaume Mistwalker raises hand.
[13:53] Rose Springvale: effective date?
[13:54] Arria Perreault: Guillaume
[13:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: Mme LRA, when will the RA get to work on passing an ACTUAL charter for th NG and for this confederation?
[13:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: This same vote will probably be questioned by the next RA and the one AFTER that.
[13:55] Pip Torok: Mme LRA .. when is the effective date for this motion?
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: When will we actually adopt a stable constitution?
[13:55] Sonja Strom raises hand
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Done.
[13:55] Arria Perreault: what do you mean, Pip?
[13:55] Pip Torok: does this law apply right now?
[13:55] Arria Perreault: the motions carries toda. A 7-day vote will not change it
[13:56] Pip Torok: if not, when?
[13:56] Rose Springvale: reinstated effective immediately i think
[13:56] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:56] Pip Torok: so long as we all know
[13:56] Rose Springvale: so new folks, start campaigning!
[13:57] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[13:57] Sonja Strom jumps up and down, hand in the air.
[13:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: whooot !
[13:57] Trebor Warcliffe: 🙂
[13:57] Callipygian Christensen: so..is that vote to reinstate or to not reinstate..the motion seems to have both
[13:57] Bromo Ivory: 🙂 I look forward to fresh blood and the current folks contributing to CDS in new ways!
[13:57] Fern Leissa: Motion is to reinstate term limits on the ra
[13:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: will we have formal debates this year ?
[13:58] Sonja Strom: Arria, I think we did not include in the motion if it would be effective immediately or by when. Thank you Rose and Pip for reminding us of this. I propose its effective date of the term limits be as of this vote – that is, today.
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: We did last real election, CLEO.
[13:58] Bromo Ivory waves goodbye
[13:58] Sonja Strom: bye Bromo
[13:58] Trebor Warcliffe: take care Bromo
[13:58] Pip Torok knows that new people had never been _blocked_ at any new term…
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Godbye.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Bromo
[13:58] Ceasar Xigalia: bye Bromo
[13:58] Bells Semyorka: ciao Bromo
[13:59] Pip Torok: bye Bromo
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Neither did I, Pip. I never knew I wasn’t allowed to be eleted when I first came to the CDS!
[13:59] Fern Leissa: bye Bromo
[13:59] Arria Perreault: do we have to vote again on this point?
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Amazing how I was elected so “newly”.
[13:59] Sonja Strom: I believe it would be good for us to have this point be clear with a vote.
[13:59] Arria Perreault: so motion and vote
[14:00] Rose Springvale: without limitation, the motion is effective upon the final vote
[14:00] Arria Perreault: motion and second, please
[14:00] Pip Torok: i don’t understand Arria .. we have voted, why should we have to vote again on this subject?
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: We still have a time requirement for voting and standing for election.
[14:00] Sonja Strom: my motion is: “The effective date of these term limits is today.”
[14:00] Fern Leissa: second
[14:00] Pip Torok: what is this, Tor?
[14:00] Arria Perreault: vote
[14:00] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:00] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:00] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:00] Pip Torok: nay
[14:01] Arria Perreault: motion carries. this vote is submitted to a 7-day vote
[14:01] Arria Perreault: thx
[14:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: :/
[14:01] Arria Perreault: it would be god to publish this law on the portal quickly
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: My question on a stable constitution for the CDS still stands.
[14:03] Arria Perreault: III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
– The new CDS Portal: roles and responsibilities
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: This is still in effect correct: Section 3
No citizen shall be eligible to vote in any election for public office in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators unless he or she has been a citizen for not less than 28 consecutive days immediately before any such election.
[14:04] Pip Torok: guillaume .. the time to bring this up will be the next RA meeting to whomever the next RA will be …
[14:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Seems that our new citizens won’t be able to run for RA anyway.
[14:04] Pip Torok: why is that, Guillaume?
[14:05] Fern Leissa: Correct Tor. The amendment lifting the term limit for the RA was never published on the portal
[14:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Rose what is the exact date for citizens to be eligible to run?
[14:05] Arria Perreault: I can inform you that a list of citizen is in preparation. it will be published soon
[14:05] Rose Springvale looks puzzled?
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, 28 days is the minimum. We’re so concerned with our young members, so to speak, but they won’t be able to vote anyway.
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: But that did not pertain to term limits
[14:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[14:05] Fern Leissa: Nov 3rd I think
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: That is Article V secon 3
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: section 3.
[14:06] Bells Semyorka: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3537
[14:06] Rose Springvale: unless changed by SC: ovember 3: last day to be a citizen eligible to vote in the election (constitutional)
November 5: last day to declare candidacy for Chancellor or RA candidacy (traditional)
November 12, noon: Election begins (constitutional)
November 19, noon, election ends.(constitutional)
[14:07] Pip Torok: once a new citizen has paid tier and is registered by nov 2 .. [s]he is a viting citizen as far as i know
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: So all the citizens who are citizens right now can vote and stand for office correct?
[14:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think its still october.
[14:07] Fern Leissa: correct Trebor
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: good
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: thats what I was confused about
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: OK, just that there were statements that made me wonder if some thought were were changing that rule.
[14:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh, no. I’m aware of it. Just don’t see what keeps the young ones from voting in elections for their candidates.
[14:09] Rose Springvale: Eager to see who is running 🙂 and their platforms
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: To vote, one must be paying tier by Nov 3rd
[14:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: there are two non citizen plots left if you know anyone
[14:09] Pip Torok: so under the present arrangement, Rose i cannot run for next term?
[14:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but they would have to live next to me
[14:09] Arria Perreault: No citizen shall be eligible to vote in any election for public office in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators unless he or she has been a citizen for not less than 28 consecutive days immediately before any such election.
[14:09] Callipygian Christensen: I am starting the betting pools tomorrow lol
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Has anyone announced their candidacy yet, Rose?
[14:10] Sonja Strom: Yes, having paid tier currently is different from having been a registered citizen.
[14:10] Pip Torok: one has, Guillaume …
[14:10] Arria Perreault: a new citizen has indirectly announced her candidacy
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh?
[14:10] Pip Torok: look in the forum
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh, wonderful.
[14:10] Arria Perreault: anyway, the SC has to approve the list
[14:11] Trebor Warcliffe: So we are still not clear on the exact dates?
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: I suppose I’ll throw my hat in as well.
[14:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Actually I am looking forward to having 7 members of the RA next term
[14:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 8?
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: well we need 80 citizens.
[14:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how many do we have now, three new today alone
[14:12] Rose Springvale: ladies and gentlemen, i am not an officer of any kind of CDS… your questions should go elsewhere
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: no cant have an odd number
[14:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: oh i see even you mean 🙂
[14:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok so 7 it is
[14:13] Arria Perreault: the Sc has to validate the list of voting citizen and the list of candidates and the number of seats in the RA
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: right sorry even.
[14:13] Ceasar Xigalia smiles at the kitty cat
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt thinks that should be changed.
[14:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Rain
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Rain
[14:14] Arria Perreault: what should be changed, Tor?
[14:14] Rain Ninetails: meow
[14:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hi rain !
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh that is for future if at all.
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: we need twenty new citizens to incrase the RA by one seat
[14:15] Pip Torok feels that “CDS Constitution 101″ classes are urgently needed
[14:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: I feel so too, Pip.
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: seems a bit too hard.
[14:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: was not.
[14:15] Fern Leissa: high?
[14:15] Rose Springvale: is the meeting over?
[14:15] Arria Perreault: I think we are finished with this point
[14:16] Rose Springvale: 2 hours and 15 min… 🙂
[14:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Such as putting two things that are wonderfulthings: supremacy clauses and amendment processes.
[14:16] Arria Perreault: the time limit of 2 hours has been reached
[14:16] Arria Perreault: we have still the question of the portal
[14:16] Rose Springvale: Thank you for your service RA… good night!
[14:17] Fern Leissa: Bye Rose
[14:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye, Mme Springvale.
[14:17] Arria Perreault: do we want to discuss it still today, probably our last decision
[14:17] Arria Perreault: ?
[14:17] Pip Torok: i am happy to if others are
[14:17] Sonja Strom: bye Rose
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I have made a change in the text about the list of blogs
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: Bye Rose
[14:18] Arria Perreault: let me change the notecard in the box
[14:18] Fern Leissa: Sure I can stay af few more minutes
[14:18] Sonja Strom: me too.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: thx
[14:19] Arria Perreault: the text is in the box
[14:20] Callipygian Christensen: RL calls..later everyone
[14:20] Fern Leissa: Bye Calli
[14:20] Sonja Strom: bye Calli
[14:20] Pip Torok: bye calli
[14:20] Arria Perreault: bye calli
[14:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye, Calli.
[14:21] Arria Perreault: There is 2 main roles: Administrator and Editor
[14:21] Arria Perreault: Administrator is responsible that the portal is working, for giving accesses
[14:21] Arria Perreault: the editor(s) is (are) responsible for contentts
[14:22] Arria Perreault: the owner of the domain name is also mentionnend
[14:22] Arria Perreault: At the end, I have add this about the list of blogs:
[14:22] Arria Perreault: The list of CDS Bloggers on the homepage is open to every citizen who has a blog where he/she writes about CDS. Bloggers can submit a request to the Administrator.
[14:23] Bells Semyorka raises hand
[14:23] Arria Perreault: Bells
[14:23] Fern Leissa raises hand
[14:23] Bells Semyorka: How much content of the bloggers blog are you requiring to be about CDS?
[14:24] Pip Torok: suggest a slight drafting amendment : Inclusion in the list of CDS bloggers on the home page is open to every citizen” … etc
[14:24] Fern Leissa: Agree with Pip
[14:24] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we can give a number
[14:25] Trebor Warcliffe: If you’re a citizen you should be able to have a blog
[14:25] Fern Leissa: The wording should be ..The list of CDS Bloggers on the homepage is open to every citizen who has a blog
[14:25] Trebor Warcliffe: I wouldnt want a blog promoting other estates
[14:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree pip
[14:26] Tor Karlsvalt: But I think it would be ok to promote or talk about personal interests besdes CDS
[14:26] Pip Torok: agrees with ferns change
[14:26] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Tor
[14:26] Bells Semyorka: agrees, it has to be fair for everyone
[14:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Lest ppl know what were are like as a group.
[14:26] Fern Leissa: Most pp who blog do not have strictly segmented posts
[14:26] Trebor Warcliffe: If I want a blog and all it is about is Accounting than I should be able to
[14:26] Arria Perreault: Inclusion in the list of CDS bloggers on the home page is open to every citizen. Bloggers can submit a request to the Administrator.
[14:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree treb
[14:27] Arria Perreault: Inclusion in the list of CDS bloggers on the home page is open to every citizen who has a blog. Bloggers can submit a request to the Administrator.
[14:27] Tor Karlsvalt: As long as the blog is in line with our laws and the ToS and Himan rights
[14:27] Trebor Warcliffe: yes
[14:27] Pip Torok: agree to the last version, mme LRA
[14:27] Sonja Strom: Maybe included in the text could be the basis of inclusion or exclusion.
[14:28] Sonja Strom: I mean, how the decision to have them included or not would be reached.
[14:28] Fern Leissa: Yes Trebor.. a blog about accounting because you are a citizen of CDS and part of what makes you interesting is your amazing accounting ability 🙂
[14:28] Trebor Warcliffe: lol tu
[14:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 🙂
[14:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Sonja I think exclusion is what we’re trying to avoid
[14:29] Pip Torok: have with beaten .. errr completed this item?
[14:29] Arria Perreault: Inclusion in the list of CDS bloggers on the home page is open to every citizen who has a blog, as long as the blog is in line with our laws, the LL ToS and the Declaration of Human rights. Bloggers can submit a request to the Administrator.
[14:29] Fern Leissa: kk
[14:29] Pip Torok: have we beaten errr _completed_ this item?
[14:29] Sonja Strom: Trebor, but I thought you said there were circumstances in which you would not want to see them included.
[14:30] Trebor Warcliffe: The one I mentioned was promotion of other estates but in reality even that would be hard to accomplish.
[14:30] Sonja Strom: For me Arria’s text is fine.
[14:30] Trebor Warcliffe: With all the networking of people across the gris
[14:31] Trebor Warcliffe: grid
[14:31] Ceasar Xigalia raises hand
[14:31] Arria Perreault: We we add this above the description of roles:
[14:31] Arria Perreault: CDS Webportal

The CDS Webportal is the main channel of communication of CDS. It is equally open to each branch of the government, of each NGO active in CDS and to all CDS citizen.
[14:31] Arria Perreault: Can we add this?
[14:31] Arria Perreault: Caesar?
[14:31] Fern Leissa: yes
[14:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m going to head out, all. Makes me want to make my own blog for the CDS now ㋡
[14:32] Fern Leissa: Bye Guillaume
[14:32] Bells Semyorka: bye Guillaume
[14:32] Ceasar Xigalia: I believe we should start with an open commitment for citizens to publish and deal with any issues if and only if they become a problem
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Bye Guilllaume
[14:32] Ceasar Xigalia: done
[14:32] Trebor Warcliffe: take care Guill
[14:32] Sonja Strom: bye Guillaume
[14:33] Pip Torok: bye Guillaume
[14:33] Arria Perreault: thx, Caesar. The idea is to be oepn
[14:33] Arria Perreault: open
[14:34] Arria Perreault: NGO or other organization and even ciitzen can get an access
[14:35] Ceasar Xigalia: 🙂
[14:35] Arria Perreault: can we vote this text?
[14:35] Fern Leissa: yes
[14:35] Pip Torok: yes
[14:35] Arria Perreault: I will paste the final version
[14:35] Arria Perreault: CDS Webportal

The CDS Webportal is the main channel of communication of CDS. It is equally open to each branch of the government, of each NGO active in CDS and to all CDS citizen.
[14:35] Arria Perreault: The Administrator is responsible for accesses, (providing username and password for named contributors ) support and quality management.
The Administrator manages the whole portal, the plug ins, theme, widgets, and the picture gallery on the home page.
The Administrator name an another responsible if unable to work on the portal for more then two weeks.
The Administrator is responsible to provide a regular backup of the portal.
The Administrator has access to the blog.
[14:36] Arria Perreault: The Editor is responsible for the content of a branch, an NGO, a faction or any activity in CDS. Each organization is responsible to nominate a person who gets the role of Editor and to submit the name to the Administrator who will provide access to the blog for the duration of their term.
The Editor has an access to the blog.
[14:36] Arria Perreault: The owner of the domain name www.slcds.info and subdomain portal.slcds.info assure continued service in collaboration with the Administrator.
[14:36] Arria Perreault: Inclusion in the list of CDS bloggers on the home page is open to every citizen who has a blog, as long as the blog is in line with our laws, the LL ToS and the Declaration of Human rights. Bloggers can submit a request to the Administrator.
[14:37] Pip Torok: ready to vote, mme lra
[14:37] Arria Perreault: I think I need a motion and a second
[14:37] Pip Torok: Motion to accept the Roles as newly pasted
[14:37] Sonja Strom: Thank you very much for putting that together, Arria.
[14:38] Arria Perreault: second?
[14:38] Sonja Strom: I second.
[14:38] Arria Perreault: vote
[14:38] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:38] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:38] Pip Torok: aye
[14:38] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:38] Arria Perreault: motion carries
[14:38] Arria Perreault: the vote is submitted to a 7-day vote
[14:38] Arria Perreault: thank you
[14:39] Arria Perreault: we can adjourn
[14:39] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:39] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:39] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:39] Pip Torok: can i on behalf of the ra thank arria for her capable handling of the role of LRA for this term?
[14:39] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:40] Sonja Strom: aye
[14:40] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:40] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[14:40] Bells Semyorka cheers
[14:40] Trebor Warcliffe: applause
[14:40] Ceasar Xigalia claps
[14:40] Pip Torok: claps
[14:40] Arria Perreault: I think we did a good job during this term and we have made some important decisions line today
[14:40] Tor Karlsvalt: hizzah!
[14:41] Fern Leissa: 🙂 And thank you Mme LRA
[14:41] Arria Perreault: I want to thank the RA members for their work
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:41] Fern Leissa: 🙂
[14:41] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[14:41] Arria Perreault: and also the citizen who have participed
[14:41] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[14:42] Fern Leissa: hear hear indeed 🙂
[14:42] Arria Perreault: we are adjourned now ㋡
[14:42] Ceasar Xigalia claps
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Bells
[14:42] Bells Semyorka: ciao everyone, see you all soon
[14:42] Fern Leissa: Good night everyone 🙂
[14:42] Arria Perreault: I will paste the last transcript

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Scientific Council code of Procedure (1)

Scientific Council Code of Procedure

Procedure for Scientific Council Meetings v1.2 – 2007

A. FREQUENCY, INITIATION & ANNOUNCEMENT

This procedure does not apply to the conduct of the Scientific Council when sitting as a court or in carrying out impeachment hearings. Seperate procedures will exist for these functions.
The Scientific Council will have ordinary meetings on a bi-weekly basis.
Any member of the SC can call for an extraordinary meeting at one day’s notice provided that the member provides written justification including a draft agenda.
Legislation passed by the RA can only form the basis of an agenda item for an SC meeting provided that it is ‘flagged’ by a member of the SC within 48 hours of the act being archived and published.
A member of the SC may flag legislation by posting a notice to the effect that an SC review is desired with a brief justification in the SC announcements forum and notifying the Dean, who will in turn notify the LRA and other members of the SC.
The Dean will announce meetings of the SC in the SC announcements forum.

B. THE AGENDA

An announcement must contain the preliminary agenda for the meeting.
Any member may suggest items to be added to the agenda in the time between the initial announcement and the actual meeting.
Proposed additions must be published by the Dean in extension of the initial announcement.
Items on the preliminary agenda must be ranked by the Dean according to an explicit principle given in the announcement.
A rough estimate of the total time needed for the meeting must be given by the Dean on initial posting and for each successive update of the preliminary agenda.
Each item on the preliminary agenda must be classified by the Dean according to the taxonomy set forth in D.1

C. QUORUM & TIME MANAGEMENT

1. The SC has a quorum on a duly announced meeting when the Dean and one chair is present.

2. Members unable to attend the meeting may forward one or more notecards giving their opinion relative to items on the agenda in accordance with what is granted by D.3. Their vote will not be counted but the opinion given will be entered into the journal of the meeting.

2. As the first action of the meeting the Dean will investigate by asking the chairs present how much time is available for conducting the meeting.

3. On the basis of the information gathered the Dean will present a revised agenda with a proposal for how much time will be allotted to each item and accordingly how the item is classified relative to the taxonomy for agenda items.

4. Chairs may suggest changes to the agenda, which will be adopted if a majority of those present agree.

5. Items may not be added to the agenda at the meeting.

6. Items may be struck from the agenda if a majority of members present decide that the time that can be allocated to it is insufficient for a satisfactory treatment of it.

7. Any items struck from the agenda of a meeting must be carried over to the agenda of the next ordinary meeting.

D. AGENDA ITEMS, SPEAKING AND VOTING

1. An item on the agenda may be classified as one of the following types:
– No discussion (ND)
– Structured discussion (SD)
– Unstructured discussion (UD)
– Unstructured discussion, open submission (UDO)

2. Each item is introduced by the Dean or another SC member chosen by the Dean, who summarises what the item is about and outlines the alternative solutions or decisions that may be taken by the SC in regard to the item.

3. For a “no discussion” item members of the SC will only be asked for their preference in relation to the alternatives outlined and a brief justification for prefering this alternative. Members will be asked in an order chosen by the Dean and all statements and votes will be recorded into the journal of the meeting.

4. For a “structured discussion” item the process described under #3 will be preceded by two rounds of debate during which each member has equal amounts of time to make the case for their preference and in the second round of debate reply to arguments made by other members. The Dean will choose the order of the debate.

5. For an “unstructured discussion” item the process described under D.3 will be preceded by a period of time during which any member of the SC may speak freely in relation to the agenda item under discussion. Cross-talk is allowed and any member may speak at any time.

6. For an “unstructured discussion, open submission” item the process described under D.3 will be preceded by a process as described under D.5 with the exception that anyone present at the meeting may contribute.

E. THE JOURNAL

1. A journal will be kept for each meeting of the SC.

2. The journal will record the revised agenda as per C.3 and for every agenda item the introduction of the item as per D.2, the outcome of any vote and the justification by individual members for their vote as per D.3.

3. It is the responsibility of the Dean that this journal is produced. The Dean may choose to delegate the responsibility to other members of the SC or a civil servant employed for the purpose.

4. The journal must be archived, made publicly available and its availability announced along with a summary in the SC announcements forum.

F. SANCTIONS

1. Failure to abide by this procedure may be sanctioned by admonishment, temporary banishment from meetings of the SC or impeachment as deemed appropriate.

2. Any transgression must be addressed as a point of order by a member of the SC and moved for immediate consideration at the earliest possible duly notified meeting of the SC taking priority over any pre-existing agenda.

3. The question and extent of a possible sanction for a claimed transgression in regard to this procedure must be decided upon by a majority of the SC in accordance with the provisions in the Constitution for this event.

Approved in Colonia Nova, January 7th 2007

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19th Representative Assembly (8)

RA Transcript 01 June 2013

Summary of actions:
-Members of the 19th RA sworn in.
-Shep Titian selected as LRA.
-Bagheera Kristan selected as Archivist.
-General discussion, no laws passed.

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:01] Ranma, how are things where you live?
[13:01] I was thinking about you with all the tornados.

Ranma Tardis
[13:02] I was in OKC just before the storms at the VA hospital, my town and house are ok ty

Shep Titian
[13:02] Ranma do you want to be LRA?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:02] Good.
[13:02] I heard five more people were killed.

Rosie Gray
[13:02] oh my

Fern Leissa
[13:02] . That’s scary. Glad you home is ok Ranma

Ranma Tardis
[13:03] oh my

Shep Titian
[13:03] God hun .. hope all goes well

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:03] FYI eveyone Oklahoma has been hit all week with huge storms and tornadoes.

Ranma Tardis
[13:03] so I left maybe an hour or so before they hit, drove on that hwy

Shep Titian
[13:03] Yes we’ve had that on our news

Fern Leissa
[13:04] feels like it is the second wk in a row?? Is that right?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:04] one town close to Oklahoma Cit, Moore, was leveled.

Ranma Tardis
[13:04] that was day 3 of this week

Rosie Gray
[13:04] glad you’re alright Ranma
[13:04] that’s awful

Ranma Tardis
[13:05] have a bad connection
[13:05] than the week before

Fern Leissa
[13:05] I remember Moore. I guess so much awful has happened it seems longer

Ranma Tardis
[13:06] thy have been getting it all week
[13:06] 3 days of bad storms this week
[13:07] moore had some more storms

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:07] Yeah, the whole town was devastated. I think nine children died.

Shep Titian
[13:07] Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:07] Does anyone know about Nolligan and Razzy?

Ranma Tardis
[13:07] what is left is getting hit

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:07] We have had rain everyday as those storms move up and east to the midwest.

Shep Titian
[13:07] Yes not coming

Rosie Gray
[13:07] I saw Nolligan this morning
[13:08] but it’s probably the middle of the night for him

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:08] Nolligan might have gone to bed. He was at the meeting earlier about Cedar Island.

Pip Torok
[13:08] trouble is its deep night in china

Shep Titian
[13:08] Lilith .. could we invite you to swear in the three of us present?

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:08] oh, okay…. may I suggest we let the SC chair until we are sworn in and LRA selected? Yes, Shep

Lilith Ivory
[13:08] of course

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:08] and me I think

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:08] sorry, Tor
[13:09] I am slef absorbed

Rosie Gray
[13:09] yes, you too Tor

Lilith Ivory
[13:09] no Tor I think Calli wanted to swaear you in at the inaugurial ball

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:09] oh ok

Lilith Ivory
[13:09] didn´t she tell you?

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:09] oh, will we have a ball? Fantastic!

Ranma Tardis
[13:09] lets get it done

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:09] not really. I got her for DJ, but had to log soon afterward.

Shep Titian
[13:09] Its usually done at the ball I recall

Lilith Ivory
[13:10] let me call you to order gusys

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:10] Can’t remember a thing unless it is in inventory.

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:10] hehehe

Lilith Ivory
[13:10] I am going to drop you a notecard now the the oath
[13:11] Lilith Ivory gives Tor a strict look

Fern Leissa
[13:11] hehe

Rosie Gray
[13:11] Rosie Gray grins

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:11] haha

Lilith Ivory
[13:11] did I miss somebody?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt sits quietly on his hands.

Ranma Tardis
[13:12] am looking for it
[13:12] am on a friends computer

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:12] Welcome Dylan.

Lilith Ivory
[13:12] you get swrorn in at the ball Tor

GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor
[13:12] Hi all pip wants me to sit in

Lilith Ivory
[13:12] I can copy paste the oath too Ranma
[13:13] Hi Dylan

Ranma Tardis
[13:13] I will get te first one

Lilith Ivory
[13:13] The affirmation of office is a public declaration that in the office to which you have been duly elected, you will solomnly affirm to uphold the Constitution of the CDS and take the duties of the RA seriously
so please if you would, insert your own name into the RA affirmation and read the text into the local chat:

Ranma Tardis
[13:14] alright

Shep Titian
[13:14] c
[13:14] I Shep Titian having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:15] [13:15] I, Tanoujin Milestone, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.

Shep Titian
[13:16] Congrats Tan

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:16] same to you

Rosie Gray
[13:16] clap clap clap

Lilith Ivory
[13:16] Ranma?

Fern Leissa
[13:17] clap clap clap

Bagheera Kristan#http://mbprofile:821e9d49-c5e0-4d2d-9451-3e1188b833e5&Bagheera Kristan
[13:17] !! Applause !!

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:17] ?~~?~~APPLAUSE~~?~~?

Fern Leissa
[13:17] Congratulations everyone!

Lilith Ivory
[13:17] did I miss Ranma declaring?

Ranma Tardis
[13:17] I Ranma Tardis having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.

Pip Torok
[13:17] clapclap

Rosie Gray
[13:17] Rosie Gray was just thinking the same thing
[13:17] aaah
[13:17] clap clap clap

Shep Titian
[13:17] Congrats Ran

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:17] Have a good term, Ranma

Lilith Ivory
[13:17] thank you Ranma and congratulations to all of you

GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor
[13:17] *clap*

Rosie Gray
[13:17] wooo hoo

Shep Titian
[13:18] Thank you Lilith for swearing us in

Lilith Ivory
[13:18] Lilith Ivory aplauds

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:18] wonderful!
[13:18] I propose Shep Titian as a candidate for LRA

Lilith Ivory
[13:18] I will try to get hold on Nolligan and Razzi, and bring them here to swear them in too

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:18] Ok

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:19] , yes, get hold of them, very nice

Ranma Tardis
[13:19] do you want it? my friend?

Shep Titian
[13:19] Nooligan will be asleep he said

Lilith Ivory
[13:19] if I fing them I´ll send out a group note to have maybe some witnesses here in the praetorium

Shep Titian
[13:19] IO will take it happily .. but also give it happily if you want a turn

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:20] Perhaps we will see him some morning.

Ranma Tardis
[13:20] to be LRA?

Shep Titian
[13:20] yes

Lilith Ivory
[13:20] I see Nolli often so he´s not the problem

Ranma Tardis
[13:20] would be nice, keep in pratice

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:20] thats great, imo – what do you think, Ranma?
[13:20] Tanoujin Milestone nods
[13:21] so lets vote, what do you say?

Ranma Tardis
[13:21] lets

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:21] and I say Aye to Shep

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:21]

Shep Titian
[13:22] Ran do you want it?

Ranma Tardis
[13:22] yes

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:22] Congrats and thank you for serving!

Shep Titian
[13:22] Ok then I propose Ranma

Ranma Tardis
[13:22] bu if you wat it

Shep Titian
[13:23] So we need the 7 day votes

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:23] did Ran vote yes to Shep or answer Shep’s question?

Ranma Tardis
[13:23] yes to being LRA

Shep Titian
[13:23] I thought she answered me

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:23] and I thought she voted

Rosie Gray
[13:24] Rosie Gray laughs

Shep Titian
[13:24] Ok well as Tan voted for me although I was’nt seconded

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:24] my fault

Shep Titian
[13:24] Not sure where we styand now

Ranma Tardis
[13:24] voting for myself makes it two

Lilith Ivory
[13:25] maybe we should just try it again as shep didn´t get a second

Shep Titian
[13:25] Can we second ourselves though?

Lilith Ivory
[13:26] seems to become a difficult term 😉

Shep Titian
[13:26] Yes
[13:26] We need people to attend

Ranma Tardis
[13:26] yes

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:26] Now, Ranma, do you want to become LRA? Did I get that right?

Ranma Tardis
[13:27] well yes

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:27] oh, I see! I did not get your answer when Shep asked you first
[13:28] very interesting!

Ranma Tardis
[13:28] so do you second Tan?
[13:29] lets vote

Lilith Ivory
[13:29] as far as I can see we have two proposed candidates at the moment
[13:30] might be good to vote for them with with the normal procedure

Ranma Tardis
[13:31] since the vote has been call, I vote for me

Shep Titian
[13:32] I vote for Ranma

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:32] Lilith, we need a chair

Shep Titian
[13:32] We need the 7 day votes

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:32] i vote shep, bc I do not change my word on the fly, rest up to 7 day righ?

Lilith Ivory
[13:33] weel if all 3 of you vote for Ranma now we don´t seem to need them right?
[13:33] but was good to have them anyway

Ranma Tardis
[13:33] yes

Rosie Gray
[13:34] Rosie Gray wonders if one of the missing RA might have wanted to run for LRA as well

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt thinks good point.

Shep Titian
[13:34] True Rosie
[13:34] Although I doubt Noli as he is away soon for over a month

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:35] hm, I think if someone wants to be LRA she could notify us before the meeting and be excused for it?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:35] another good point.

Lilith Ivory
[13:35] I agree tan

Shep Titian
[13:35] True Tan

Ranma Tardis
[13:35] we need an LRA

Rosie Gray
[13:35] Ranma
[13:35] true

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:35] Well it would be nice to get it cleared up.

Rosie Gray
[13:36] Rosie Gray shuts up now

Fern Leissa
[13:36] hehe

Lilith Ivory
[13:36] I´d suggest tovote again in a normal procedure

Ranma Tardis
[13:36] yes

Lilith Ivory
[13:36] Shep got proposed first from Tan but had no second

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:36] A second ballot. Or third.

Lilith Ivory
[13:36] next Shep proposed Ranma

Ranma Tardis
[13:36] I have to go

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt scratches his head.

Lilith Ivory
[13:37] and got a second from Tan if I remmeber right

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:37] no, that is not true

Ranma Tardis
[13:37] so I change my vote to shep

Shep Titian
[13:37] Neither of us was seconded

Ranma Tardis
[13:37] second shep

Lilith Ivory
[13:37] ok just trying to straighten things out
[13:38] does any of our candidates get a second now?

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:38] i second shep
[13:38] but i cant second myself
[13:38]

Lilith Ivory
[13:38] ok so all in favour for shep say aye please

Ranma Tardis
[13:38] aye

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:38] aye

Shep Titian
[13:38] Aye

Lilith Ivory
[13:39] ok congrats shep

Ranma Tardis
[13:39] congrats

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:39] Tanoujin Milestone lifts an eyebrow

Shep Titian
[13:39] Thank you

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt waits pensively for he chair.

Ranma Tardis
[13:39] my rl is pressing me

Lilith Ivory
[13:39] yes?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:39] Yay!!!!

Lilith Ivory
[13:39] Tan?

Shep Titian
[13:39] Ranma we’ll talk hun

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:39] Congrats Shep

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:39] thank you!

Shep Titian
[13:39] Thank you

Bagheera Kristan
[13:39] congratulations

Rosie Gray
[13:39] ··•°•··..? Applauds! ? ..··•°•··..

Fern Leissa
[13:39] Congratulations Shep

Ranma Tardis
[13:40] no worries

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:40] ?~~?~~APPLAUSE~~?~~?

Lilith Ivory
[13:40] APPLAUSE

Ranma Tardis
[13:40] congrats my friend
[13:40] ok will be afk

Shep Titian
[13:40] ok we need to set the next meeting
[13:41] Thank you Ran
[13:41] Tan … we need to fix meetings so we can include Noli

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:42] yes, do you know about his availability?

Lilith Ivory
[13:42] I see Nolligan often during the europen day

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:42] he seems to be online early in the morning for me
[13:42] It might be doable.

Shep Titian
[13:42] Yes I know 1pm SLT is 3am with him

Fern Leissa
[13:42] eeek

Rosie Gray
[13:43]

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:43] well, okay, that is much asked

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:43] we would just have to be up early in the US.

Lilith Ivory
[13:43] what abou Razis prefered online times if I may ask?

Shep Titian
[13:43] Yes .. it works for us europeans

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:43] how can we sync Razzy and Nlligan?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:43] Well she is on SL time.

Shep Titian
[13:43] we can’t

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:43] i will adapt – on a saturday, anytime

Lilith Ivory
[13:43] but somehow normal RA meetings don´t seem to work for her well too

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:44] So if she could be up at say 7 SLT, that might work.

Shep Titian
[13:44] she has 5 children

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:44] What is 7 SLT in Europe?
[13:44] yikes.

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:44] +9

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:45] ok, so like six PM.

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:45] right

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:45] no
[13:45] ok

Lilith Ivory
[13:45] 4pm if I can do the math right atm
[13:45] Lilith Ivory scratches head

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:45] hahaha, shoot me

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:45] Yeah I think 4, i miscounted.
[13:45] it would be 9am for me.
[13:46] Nolli make the meeting today
[13:46] It started at 8SLT

Rosie Gray
[13:46] why don’t you do a “Doodle” to find a suitable time?

Lilith Ivory
[13:46] brb

Rosie Gray
[13:46] http://www.doodle.com/main.html

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:46] I bet 7 to 8 might be good for Nolli

Rosie Gray
[13:46] it’s a free scheduling app

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:46] Razzy might be able to make that too.
[13:47] ok

Shep Titian
[13:47] yes late evening

Lilith Ivory
[13:47] back

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:47] we talk about 7 pm SLT, right?
[13:48] no, 7 am

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:48] I suppose you could switch off between say 4 am slt to 8 am slt .

Shep Titian
[13:48] wb

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:48] okay, what time is 7 am SLT for Nolligan?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:48] one or the other might not be able to make it.
[13:49] It must be late at night.
[13:49] He made the meeting at 8

Shep Titian
[13:49] 9pm

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:49] ok that isn’t too bad.
[13:49] you know if he will out travelling next month, he might not be able to make any meeting.

Shep Titian
[13:49] I can do 9pm ok
[13:50] tsk
[13:50] 7am

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:50] I am good with the morning truth be told.

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:50] fine, let us try that and see how it works out?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:50] shoot I get up early most every day.

Shep Titian
[13:51] Ok can we make the next meeting for two weeks?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:51] Ball is next sunday, the 9th.
[13:51] noon
[13:51] I will get some invites out
[13:51] and ask that Delia or Jon pass them to CI.

Rosie Gray
[13:51] 😀

Shep Titian
[13:52] Yes cool .. as soon as poss Tor .. and do a couple of reminder notes

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:52] Tanoujin Milestone nods

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:52] k
[13:52] prolly get a nice pic of the new schloss.

Lilith Ivory
[13:52] do you have an archivist already to post this transcript btw?

Shep Titian
[13:52] yes

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:53] I suppose we need a flag on the new schoss.

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:53] Yes, Bags is doing it via the cat over there

Shep Titian
[13:53] We do ..

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:53] maybe several waving in different directions.

Rosie Gray
[13:53] I can put one there, but I refuse to do two different directions

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:53] haha

Shep Titian
[13:53] I am thrilled to announce that Bagheera ios our new Archivist

Fern Leissa
[13:53] Sorry must go. Nice to see everyone

Rosie Gray
[13:54] Fern!

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:54] I thought that might be a nice homage to the old schloss.

Lilith Ivory
[13:54] see you Fern

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:54] by Fern

Pip Torok
[13:54] au revoir Fern

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:54] Fern

Rosie Gray
[13:54] Rosie Gray gives Tor a POKE!

Shep Titian
[13:54] Fern

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:54] haha
[13:54] ouch
[13:55] btw. Samantha was online earlier this week.
[13:55] she never responded to my IM.

Pip Torok
[13:55] Samantha Fuller?

Shep Titian
[13:55] Ok next meeting Sat 15th June at 7am SLT
[13:55] Agreed??

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:55] yeah Pip.

Pip Torok
[13:55] well well…

Tanoujin Milestone
[13:56] agreed, !

Shep Titian
[13:56] ok cool

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:56] great

Shep Titian
[13:56] Tor do you have anything you want to say?

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt hopes Ebony is looking at Lilith.

Lilith Ivory
[13:56] Lilith Ivory is curious about the cedar meeting

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:57] um, thanks

Lilith Ivory
[13:57] he stares at my leash holder
[13:57] or she

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:57] Well we have to get in gear for SL10

Pip Torok
[13:57] i have an informal transcipt … wish i cd give it to ppl

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:57] Lil has done a great job with the exhibit build.

Shep Titian
[13:57] he

Lilith Ivory
[13:57] it´s not finished yet but comes along well so far

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:57] I will be asking for some comments from citizens.

Rosie Gray
[13:58] great idea

Shep Titian
[13:58] Cool

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:58] I am thinking I will have some comments about what CDS means to people.

Lilith Ivory
[13:58] > ; >

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:58] so will be asking for that

Rosie Gray
[13:58] nice

Lilith Ivory
[13:58] and we DO need a timeline of our history I think

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:58] Also, probalby try to make a nice time line with historical pic as a backdrop.
[13:59] I have this in my head. I hope I can execute it.

Shep Titian
[13:59] sounds exciting

Tor Karlsvalt
[13:59] And we had a meeting with members of Cedar Island.
[14:00] It was this morning on the Quay.

Tanoujin Milestone
[14:00] Really! What do they say?

Rosie Gray
[14:00] it was quite positive!

Pip Torok
[14:00] as i said i wish my transcript cd tell you ….

Shep Titian
[14:00] I see we have Dylan with us

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:00] There seems to be some interest in some members of Cedar making a home hear. We are hoping Jon and Delia can bring a plan to the next meeting.

GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor
[14:00] *grins
[14:01] im not from Cedar just a friend of Pips

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:01] yes, Dylan is a member of Cedar.

Rosie Gray
[14:01] hehe

Tanoujin Milestone
[14:01] hehe.

GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor
[14:01] im observing a SL democracy

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:02] Perhaps we could make sure the Cedar group is notified of our RA meetings.

Tanoujin Milestone
[14:02] that transcript – i am sure everyone agreed to be recorded?
[14:02] Pip?

Rosie Gray
[14:02] there was a bit of coming and going

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:02] yes will will post it to our forum

Pip Torok
[14:02] good idea tor … cd someone im them all the IP of the Forum and the portal?

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:03] I know Delia passed the link to the portal.

Rosie Gray
[14:03] I gave them the portal this morning

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:03] but it would not hurt to do it again.

Shep Titian
[14:03] Can I call an official end here?

Pip Torok
[14:03] the sooner they start contributing the sooner theyll feel a part of CDS

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:03] sure, I am don’e
[14:03] done

Pip Torok
[14:03] and me

Shep Titian
[14:03] Ok move to adjorn
[14:03] vote

Tanoujin Milestone
[14:03] second

Shep Titian
[14:03] Aye

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:03] I agree Pip. I came to meetings before I decided to buy land.

Tanoujin Milestone
[14:04] aye

Tor Karlsvalt
[14:04] ?~~?~~APPLAUSE~~?~~?

Shep Titian
[14:04] Ok thanks all for attending

Permalink.

Swearing in of Nolligan Nino 04 June 2013

[05:17] Lilith Ivory:

The affirmation of office is a public declaration that in the office to which you have been duly elected, you will solemnly affirm to uphold the Constitution of the CDS and take the duties of the RA seriously so please if you would, insert your own name into the RA affirmation and read the text into the local chat:

[05:17] Pip Torok:

a little early for the americans methinks

[05:18] Nolligan (nolligan.nino):

I, Nolligan Nino , having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.

[05:18] Pip Torok:

HURRAY!

[05:18] Nolligan (nolligan.nino):

Hear my words and bear witness to my vow
Night gathers and now my watch begins

[05:18] Lilith Ivory:

thank you Nolligan and congrats

[05:18] Pip Torok:

CONGRATULATIONS Nolligan

Permalink.

RA Meeting 15 June 2013

Summary of Actions taken:
-Discussion of removal of RA member for non-attendance.
-Appreciation to Sudane Erato and Rosie Gray for work on New Schloss recorded.
-Discussion of Community Events Site Committee. The Fairground Committee created and Tanoujin Milestone appointed to chair.
-Discussion of deficit and potential tier increase. Tabled to July 6 in order to hear Chancellor report and recommendations.
No Laws passed.

Shep Titian
[07:09] Calling the meeting to oprder
[07:09] Have we read and approved the agenda?

Ranma Tardis
[07:09] yes

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:09] I approve

Nolligan Nino
[07:09] yes

Shep Titian
[07:10] Well as we have nop reports we hjave no speakers
[07:10] Dear citizens .. any concerns?

Lilith Ivory
[07:11] if you are in the mood for entertainment I could say something about SL10 at the end of the meeting

Fern Leissa
[07:11]

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:11] I like that idea

Shep Titian
[07:11] Yes thank you Lilith .. that would be great

Lilith Ivory
[07:11] Lilith Ivory smiles

Nolligan Nino
[07:11] I have something to say when it’s my turn…

Shep Titian
[07:12] Ok .. RA any concerns?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:12] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Shep Titian
[07:12] Well Noli first

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:12] Tanoujin Milestone nods

Shep Titian
[07:12] then Tan
[07:12] Noli

Nolligan Nino
[07:14] well two things – re: item 2 establishing a a committee for temporary events would this committee be authorised to ‘ok’ temporary builds?

Shep Titian
[07:14] No

Nolligan Nino
[07:14] or would it have to be overseen by the RA? – what would be it’s powers

Shep Titian
[07:14] Could we address that when we get to that item please ?

Nolligan Nino
[07:15] ok – in that case if It had no powers to suthorise then personally – I can see no function for it

Shep Titian
[07:15] Sorry new keyboard hahahahaha

Nolligan Nino
[07:16] – the other matter I will wait until Ainy Other Business

Lilith Ivory
[07:16] hehe

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:16] I have noted that questions, nolligan, I support the LRA to have the discussion when we come to that item

Shep Titian
[07:16] ok thanks .. Tan?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:16] I see there is no executive present
[07:16] may I ask whether the chancellor is excused?

Shep Titian
[07:16] Yes I noted the same

Lilith Ivory
[07:17] he only has to be here once a month if I remember right

Ranma Tardis
[07:17] nods

Lilith Ivory
[07:17] did he get an invitation to speak here today?

Shep Titian
[07:17] But I understand he ios only contracted to attend one RA meeting a month

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:17] well, for the record, I am not amused, we have an Item on the agenda that affects the executive
[07:17] done

Lilith Ivory
[07:18] Lilith Ivory raises her hand

Shep Titian
[07:18] Noted thank you Tan
[07:18] I myself have a concern
[07:18] Razzy
[07:18] She’s a friend and I like her
[07:19] Its great she volunteers
[07:19] .. but she hardly ever turns up
[07:19] How long should we leave it before we remove her?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:20] I think we cant without impeachment
[07:20] and i would refrain from that

Ranma Tardis
[07:20] she never swore in

Shep Titian
[07:20] That is true Ran

Lilith Ivory
[07:20] I might have to look if there are any procedures about that

Shep Titian
[07:21] Could you please Lil .. we need all five us active

Lilith Ivory
[07:21] Lilith Ivory nods

Shep Titian
[07:21] Thank you

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:21] people, if we remove her, we need a 5th member or we are done 😀

Lilith Ivory
[07:21] give me a few days to search old laws and procedures as I don´t think we had a case like this lately
[07:21] in this case we needed a bielection again

Shep Titian
[07:22] We would have to ask for a by-election

Lilith Ivory
[07:22] Lilith Ivory s

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:22] [07:22] is Razzy excusedtoday?

Shep Titian
[07:22] No
[07:22] not a word

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:22] Tanoujin Milestone scratches her head

Lilith Ivory
[07:22] I only saw her shortly at the inaugurial ball

Ranma Tardis
[07:22] can we remove someone who is not on the RA? She is still a elect

Lilith Ivory
[07:23] I need to look for this as I don´t want to say something wrong now

Shep Titian
[07:23] Yes she came for some of that .. I’ll try to catch her and see if she wants to stay .. or feels she can’t
[07:24] Ok .. well something it would be good to know the way to go
[07:24] Moving on
[07:25] We have no outstanding business
[07:25] New business

Nolligan Nino
[07:26] you mean I can raise an item not on the agenda now?

Shep Titian
[07:26] I propose we put it on record our appreciation on behalf of the citizens .. to Rosie and Sudane for their wonderful work on the new Schloss

Ranma Tardis
[07:27] nods

Nolligan Nino
[07:27] Nolligan Nino nods

Ranma Tardis
[07:27] i second

Nolligan Nino
[07:27] an excellent job

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:27] yes, and a good example how things can get done

Shep Titian
[07:28] No Noli after what is on the agenda .. usually it should be on it .. if you tell me a couple of days before I can add it

Nolligan Nino
[07:28] ah ok – I’m still a noob at this

Shep Titian
[07:28] Yes Brava from me ..
[07:28] Yes I know

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:28] Nevertheless we can shift something on the agenda unanimously, if I remember right
[07:29] Was this a theoretical question, Nolligan?

Shep Titian
[07:30] Tan want to take this seat?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:30] i apologize

Shep Titian
[07:30] Thanks
[07:30] ok in order
[07:31] Committee to find the best common ground to be set aside to hold events

Ranma Tardis
[07:31] raises hand

Shep Titian
[07:31] I sdpoke to Tor yesterday about this
[07:31] one sec Ran
[07:32] And he is in favour of said committee .. in fact he wants lead by by an RA member
[07:32] Ok Ran

Ranma Tardis
[07:33] am confused what is the purpose of this committee
[07:33] ?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:33] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand to offer an answer

Shep Titian
[07:34] To evaluate the various sites .. plus look at the construction of a new amphitheatre
[07:34] Tan?

Ranma Tardis
[07:34] do the decisions mean anything?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:34] I summarized the discussion here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4043
[07:34] it is about designating fair grounds to have off covenant events
[07:35] we discussed that at the end of the last term

Lilith Ivory
[07:35] Lilith Ivory raises her hand

Shep Titian
[07:35] Well the committee answers to RA … so e need a volunteer to chair it and then we vote on its findings
[07:35] Lil

Lilith Ivory
[07:36] shouldn´t the construction of a new amphitheatre be something the artisan guild takes care about? and didn´t they get that job already?

Shep Titian
[07:37] Not what Tor said

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:37] hear, hear

Ranma Tardis
[07:37] raises hand

Shep Titian
[07:37] Don’t forget the guild are an NGO
[07:37] Ran?

Ranma Tardis
[07:38] lets rephrase this will the committee be able to approve or just recommend?

Shep Titian
[07:39] Recommend to us ..

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:39] may I?
[07:40] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Shep Titian
[07:40] And yes Tan I know about the forum thread .. however as per uisual a lot of woprds were spoken and nothing happerned
[07:40] Tan

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:40] it is just for information

Ranma Tardis
[07:40] raises hand

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:40] the thread
[07:41] okay, i would volunteer to chair such a commission with the condition we focus on the fair ground topic

Shep Titian
[07:41] Yes .. this is if you like the continuation
[07:41] Ok thats good

Fern Leissa
[07:41] Fern Leissa raises hand

Shep Titian
[07:41] Fern?

Lilith Ivory
[07:41] Hi Sudane

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:41] the Theatre topic needs much work, it could block the decision about the fair grounds

Sudane Erato
[07:41] hi

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:41] done.

Shep Titian
[07:41] Hi Sudane

Fern Leissa
[07:41] If I may make a citizens comment…

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:41] Hi Sudane

Shep Titian
[07:42] Please do Fern

Fern Leissa
[07:42] I think that a permanent fairground is not necessarily a good thing and would like to see this type of thing discussed as the need arrises
[07:43] it seems like this was generagted out of a misunderstanding btw several citizens. I do not feel the ra should legislate all misunderstandings
[07:43] done
[07:43] ty

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:43] (very good point, fern)

Ranma Tardis
[07:43] Shep Titian
[07:43] The fairground will simply be the designate space for certain events
[07:44] To avoid the situation that arose ovr a couple of events
[07:45] There are absolutely NO plans for any permanent structures on it/them
[07:46] Ok then since Tan volunteers to chair the committee and report to us .. I think thats all we need for now .. Tan do you need any recruiting?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:47] Volunteer all persons present here

Sudane Erato
[07:47] hehe

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:47] I will call for meetings and discussion

Lilith Ivory
[07:47] Lilith Ivory grins

Shep Titian
[07:47] hehehehehehe

Fern Leissa
[07:47] hehe

Shep Titian
[07:47] Anyone want to join the committee?
[07:48] I would imagine Bags might be interested

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:48] knok, knock, Hi its me, Tan, I want to talk about the fair — slam
[07:48] yes, I will ask bags

Nolligan Nino
[07:48] Nolligan Nino has other commitments

Shep Titian
[07:48] Can’t speak for her of course
[07:49] hehehe Silence is deafening eh 😀
[07:50] Tan what shall we call your committee?

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:50] that is bc the negotiations need to be secret _D

Shep Titian
[07:50] Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:50] I will do my best. Lets go on?

Shep Titian
[07:50] Feels things crawl out of woodwork

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:50]

Shep Titian
[07:51] WEll just call it The Fairground Committee

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:51] yes, Madam

Shep Titian
[07:51] ok moving on .. Noli you wish to bring something up?

Nolligan Nino
[07:52] if it’s ok

Shep Titian
[07:52] You have the floor

Nolligan Nino
[07:53] I am of the opinion that the finances of CDs need a careful examination. as the last set of accounts show an ongoing deficit – which iMHO is very serious
[07:55] I would like to propose a consultation exercise to see what solutions we can gather form the c itizens and our friends

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:55] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Shep Titian
[07:55] Tan

Tanoujin Milestone
[07:56] I see the Treasurer is attending – let us ask her how serious the deficit is
[07:56] Sudane, would you drop us a line?

Shep Titian
[07:57] Sudane .. would you be prepared to give us some words?

Sudane Erato
[07:57] sure…. but i’m not sure i understand the context of the question
[07:57] are we discussing the budget?

Shep Titian
[07:58] Yes .. Noli is concerned that we are running in defecit

Sudane Erato
[07:58] ahh… ok
[07:58] well, yes we are… a small one
[07:58] there are 2 issues
[07:59] one is that we need to try to sell more land
[07:59] thus the conversation about LA
[07:59] and the second is that a few terms ago, we drastically lowered tier
[07:59] and i think perhaps we should slightly raise it again
[08:00] keep in mind that the deficit is small

Ranma Tardis
[08:00] raises hand

Sudane Erato
[08:00] and that we have large reserves… so we are in no danger
[08:00] but

Shep Titian
[08:00] After Sudane Ran

Sudane Erato
[08:00] we should correct the situation while it is still comfortable to do so
[08:00] done

Shep Titian
[08:01] Thank you Sudane
[08:01] Ran

Ranma Tardis
[08:01] Sudane how would you correct the situation?

Sudane Erato
[08:01] by dealing with those 2 issues

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:02] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Sudane Erato
[08:02] take steps to sell more land
[08:02] and raise the tier

Shep Titian
[08:02] Tan

Ranma Tardis
[08:02] I mean should we raise rates and adjust them each term?

Shep Titian
[08:02] Micro manage?

Sudane Erato
[08:03] Ranma, i think not

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:03] I think we should take the tier raise on the agenda for the next meeting and ask whether 6% is enough to improve the situation

Shep Titian
[08:03] No .. could get messy

Ranma Tardis
[08:03] no in the Corps of Engineers rates are adjusted as needed

Fern Leissa
[08:03] me/raises hand
[08:03]

Shep Titian
[08:04] ooooooooh whispered

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:04]

Fern Leissa
[08:05] Fern Leissa raises hand … really

Sudane Erato
[08:05]

Shep Titian
[08:06] Fern I called you

Fern Leissa
[08:06] Sorry Shep

Shep Titian
[08:06] nps

Fern Leissa
[08:06] I believe I was on the ra when we voted to lower tier
[08:07] The idea behind doing so was to try to get more citizens to join us. We were worried about LA (if you can believe that ^^)
[08:07] But… frankly I think I’d say it hasn’t worked

Sudane Erato
[08:07] hehe

Shep Titian
[08:07] Ok well I will add this to next meeting’s agenda

Fern Leissa
[08:07] However in the meantime… I think is see some citizens have bought/are supporting more land

Nolligan Nino
[08:07] Nolligan Nino raises hand

Fern Leissa
[08:08] And they may be doing so because it it cheaper… so I’m not sure what the fix is
[08:08] done

Shep Titian
[08:08] Thanks Fern .. Noli

Ranma Tardis
[08:08] raises hand

Nolligan Nino
[08:08] Firstly – many thanks to Sudane for addressing my concerns I now know that.the deficit is small and is partly due to a lowering of tier.
[08:08] personally- I would still like to see how we can achieve the desired result of selling more land and increasing traffic.
[08:08] So I would like to initiate a consultation exercise – and attempt to get people involved.
[08:09] I may be a missed guided fool doomed to failure – but I’d still like to try…
[08:09] done

Sudane Erato
[08:09] raise hand

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:09] Tanoujin Milestone notes we have another volunteer

Shep Titian
[08:09] Sudane

Sudane Erato
[08:10] i think Ranma was before me?

Shep Titian
[08:10] )))
[08:10] Oh sorry
[08:10] Ran?

Ranma Tardis
[08:10] taps fingers

Shep Titian
[08:10] Slaps fingers

Ranma Tardis
[08:10] you understand I was not finished talking several times
[08:11] the way we do things breaks up the free exchange of infomation, takes more time

Shep Titian
[08:11] I apologise … I wish people would use the typing or hand waving AOs so you know if more is coming

Ranma Tardis
[08:12] it makes these meetings more painful than the ones at work

Sudane Erato
[08:12] Shep, you might consider requiring that

Ranma Tardis
[08:12] if I could figure out how to use it on the new viewer

Shep Titian
[08:12] Ok we’ll talk later

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:13] I did not get that, Ranma, I hope you will explain? Later, maybe?

Shep Titian
[08:13] Yes I know a lot don’t like them .. but just for meetings would

Ranma Tardis
[08:13] no, the RA members are being silenced during the meetings

Sudane Erato
[08:13] pfft

Shep Titian
[08:14] Rubbish

Ranma Tardis
[08:14] might as well be a non member
[08:14] you interupted me 3 times

Shep Titian
[08:14] Ok .. how would you do it?

Ranma Tardis
[08:15] a more free flow, we are typing not talking

Shep Titian
[08:15] What do you mean free flow? everyone at once?

Ranma Tardis
[08:15] the ra members should be able to talk without such a control and no
[08:16] we have taken an hour and a quarter and have done almost nothing
[08:16] mostly waiting

Shep Titian
[08:16] And what should we have done?

Ranma Tardis
[08:17] if we have to maybe give out so much time for an ra member to speak like the us congress

Shep Titian
[08:17] We gave official thanks for the Schloss

Ranma Tardis
[08:17] roberts rules of order

Shep Titian
[08:18] We arranged a committee to research the fairgrounds
[08:18] We had a few words from Sudanme in responce to Noli’s concers

Ranma Tardis
[08:18] they will talk and someone else will make a motion and it will be for nothing
[08:19] but it is their time

Shep Titian
[08:19] Ok Ran .. I’ll hand the next meeting over to you

Ranma Tardis
[08:19] how about giving each member a few minutes of uninterupted time
[08:19] sure thing

Shep Titian
[08:19] You do the agenda .. don’t forget the notice and the forum notice

Ranma Tardis
[08:20] nods

Shep Titian
[08:21] I want you to tell me what should jhave been achieved today that was’nt

Ranma Tardis
[08:22] am all ears

Shep Titian
[08:23] No Ranma YOU tell ME

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:23] excuse me, i lost track… do we approve Nolligan’s consultation and involvement exercise?

Shep Titian
[08:23] Yes I do

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:23] great, me too

Ranma Tardis
[08:23] sureShep Titian
[08:23] Go for it .. we all have 😀

Nolligan Nino
[08:23] thank you…

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:24] and I forgot the speaking order too – please bear with me – who had the floor?

Ranma Tardis
[08:24] give me a couple moments

Shep Titian
[08:24] I’m waiting for Ran

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:24] ah! Okay

Ranma Tardis
[08:24] i lose my train of thought easily one of the gifts of the war
[08:25] we do need to make things more streamlined and actually do something about the budget which reminds me needs to be done

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:26] the budget! right!
[08:26] Tanoujin Milestone rises habd

Ranma Tardis
[08:26] we need to set priorities for the government and then let them do it
[08:26] that it

Shep Titian
[08:27] Tan

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:27] thank you
[08:28] when tier was reduced, how much was that, does anyone remeber?
[08:28] Fern, maybe?

Shep Titian
[08:28] Before my time

Fern Leissa
[08:29] Sudane may have percentage?

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:29] I would like to ask Sudane to present a suggestion next time, with real numbers, would that be okay?

Ranma Tardis
[08:29] nods

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:29] Tor mentioned 6% last term

Nolligan Nino
[08:29] Nolligan Nino nods in agreement

Shep Titian
[08:29] Sudane would you please do that for us?

Sudane Erato
[08:30] yes…. but actually, Tor has prepared this proposal
[08:30] and I will defer to him to present it

Ranma Tardis
[08:31] raises hand

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:31] I see, thank you

Shep Titian
[08:31] OK I’ll try to tie him down and make sure he knows he’s needed

Sudane Erato
[08:31] i’ll be happy to remind him

Lilith Ivory
[08:31] Lilith Ivory smiles

Sudane Erato
[08:31] and forgive me… i must leave… another meeting…

Shep Titian
[08:31] 😀
[08:31] Ran

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:31] , Sudane, thank you

Ranma Tardis
[08:31] I move we raise tier 6 percent

Shep Titian
[08:31] Sudane hun

Lilith Ivory
[08:32] see you Sudane

Shep Titian
[08:32] Feel it needs a bit more clarity

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:32] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Shep Titian
[08:33] WEhich is why its on the agenda for the next meeting
[08:33] Tan

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:33] Ranma, I am much in the mood to second, but i would like to hear Tor on it first
[08:34] so let us get it done next time, okay?
[08:34] it affects all citizens

Ranma Tardis
[08:34] we know we are short what can Tor possibily say?

Shep Titian
[08:34] Personally I would prefer to lose LA

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:34] we should make sure we do it in a proper way

Ranma Tardis
[08:34] ??

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:35] it is his proposal

Shep Titian
[08:35] Putyting rents up in the current climate is plain silly

Ranma Tardis
[08:35] just hijacked it
[08:35] lets have a vote up or down

Shep Titian
[08:36] I’m not inclined to call random votes

Ranma Tardis
[08:36] this has been coming since before the 18th term

Shep Titian
[08:36] We have no commission reports .. no exec to report .. and no general announcements
[08:37] Therefore next RA meeting
[08:37] I suggest one month
[08:38] Saturday 13th July?

Ranma Tardis
[08:38] 2 weeks

Shep Titian
[08:38] No

Nolligan Nino
[08:38] in one months time my time zone will be Irish Summer Time which is Central European Time -1 hour

Shep Titian
[08:38] Once a month is enough

Lilith Ivory
[08:38] the chancellor might want to have his budget aproved

Nolligan Nino
[08:39] I should have text only viewer access to sl

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:39] and I might want to see it 😀

Shep Titian
[08:39] Well he should post it first

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:40] good point, eh?

Shep Titian
[08:40] I’ll compromise at three weeks
[08:40] 6th July
[08:40] What time?

Nolligan Nino
[08:41] This time works for me

Ranma Tardis
[08:41] am good at most times
[08:41] nods

Shep Titian
[08:41] Ok 7am …

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:41] okay!

Shep Titian
[08:41] next meeting SAt 6th July ast 7 am SLT
[08:41] I move to adjkourn

Ranma Tardis
[08:42] second

Shep Titian
[08:42] Adjourtn
[08:42] Gives up
[08:42] Vote

Tanoujin Milestone
[08:42] aye, and thank you all

Shep Titian
[08:42] aye

Ranma Tardis
[08:42] aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 6 July 2013

Summary of Actions
-Dean of SC clarified removal process for RA Members. (Impeachment only.)
-Fairground Committee report: work in progress, nothing to report yet.
-Discussion of RA Procedure to show when speaking.
-Election of Nolligan Nino as RA Pro Tem.
-Discussion of future of Locus Amoenus.
-Discussion of tier increase.
-Recognition of volunteers for SL 10 B.
No laws passed.

July 6 2013 – RA Transcript
by Bagheera » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:36 am
Shep Titian [07:05] Ok the agenda is in the box on the table .. please take a copy and we will begin
[07:05] May I say its lovely to see so many here

Tor Karlsvalt [07:05] Forgive me if I get a bit distracted. Just give me a hard nudge if I ignore you. I am running SL in a window so I can work on a statement.
[07:05] yes

Shep Titian [07:06] ok everyone has permission to poke Tor

Tanoujin Milestone [07:06] hehe

Rosie Gray [07:06] Rosie Gray tests out a POKE! on Tor

Shep Titian [07:06] cCalling this meeting to order

Tor Karlsvalt [07:06] haha

Shep Titian [07:07] RA have you read the agenda and approve its contents .. please say aye or nay

Ranma Tardis [07:07] aye

Moonrise Azalee [07:07] aye

Nolligan Nino [07:08] aye

Tanoujin Milestone [07:08] aye

Shep Titian [07:08] aye
[07:08] good moving on
[07:08] Nolligan I believe you want to speak on the LA issue?

Nolligan Nino [07:09] I will do when asked…

Shep Titian [07:09] Thanks .. Tan will you speak on the Fairground committee?

Tanoujin Milestone [07:09] yes, sbortly
[07:10] shortly

Shep Titian [07:10] Good and Tor will you be giving us a statement?
[07:12] I’ll rephrase that Tor I hope you will have an executive statement

Tanoujin Milestone [07:12] me pokes tor

Tor Karlsvalt [07:12] sorry yes

Nolligan Nino [07:12] Nolligan Nino reaches for cattle prod…

Tor Karlsvalt [07:12] I will

Shep Titian [07:12] Ok he’ll catch up
[07:12] Ah good
[07:13] ok .. Citizens concerns .. please only things not covered by the rest of the agenda

Callipygian Christensen [07:13] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Pip Torok [07:13] i have one tho not a concern

Shep Titian [07:14] Ok no hands waving

Tor Karlsvalt [07:14] sure

Shep Titian [07:14] Same again for RA .. any concerns?

Callipygian Christensen [07:14] Callipygian Christensen coughs and waves

Ranma Tardis [07:14] raises hand

Pip Torok [07:14] i have one

Nolligan Nino [07:14] yes – I have one

Shep Titian [07:14] Sorry Calli
[07:15] missed you there .. please what did you want to say?

Callipygian Christensen [07:15] Thank you. Last RA meeting there was discussion by those members present of removing or replacing a RA member.
Because it was discussed at that previous meeting and is present in the transcript of that meeting, I think it is important that this transcript also contain the following observations, so that anyone reviewing transcripts for information will see it..
[07:15] Barring impeachment for actions seriously damaging CDS or wilfully contravening the Constitution etc. , (as Tanoujin mentioned) there is no process for the RA to remove one of its own members, sworn in or not. To allow for such a thing would leave the constant possibility of RA members at risk of removal to block dissent. The only mechanism for removal of a RA member who is felt to not be doing their job well enough is failure to reelect them by the citizens of CDS.
[07:16] Done.

Ranma Tardis [07:16] claps

Tanoujin Milestone [07:16] great, thank you Calli

Pip Torok [07:16] applause

Shep Titian [07:18] Ok thank you for that clarification .. does that also apply if the person did’nt show up ever? .. not directing that at the lovely Birch who made a superhuman effort for us today

Moonrise Azalee [07:18] Moonrise Azalee laughs

Callipygian Christensen [07:18] Yes, it probably does

Widget Whiteberry [07:18] Widget Whiteberry wonders if that statement is from the formal docs of CDS
[07:19] seems very clear and well constructed

Shep Titian [07:19] Ok .. so what would the SC advise if RA were not able to be quorate because of such a situation?

Callipygian Christensen [07:19] No, i’t s just my interpretation of what is and isn’t stated in the documents

Pip Torok [07:20] Pip Torok wd be happier if the absence were quantified … for example more than 1 meeting in 3

Callipygian Christensen [07:21] It isn’t for the SC to advise on such a case – to not be quorate it would require 3 members to never attend or cast a 7 day voteort

Tanoujin Milestone [07:21] hear, hear. Maybe we need apiece of legislation

Callipygian Christensen [07:21] RA can function with only 3 active members

Shep Titian [07:21] Yes
[07:22] But Tan it might be worth exploring certainly

Tanoujin Milestone [07:22] nods

Shep Titian [07:23] Ok Pip did you have a comment?
[07:23] Or rather a concern

Callipygian Christensen [07:23] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand for a brief addendum

Pip Torok [07:24] yes … just to say there will shortly open new wine cellar … a rival to the present one at the northwest corner of the marktplatz .. you are all welcome of course done

Shep Titian [07:24] Well yes Calli .. if Pip is typing hes after
[07:24] Looks forward to new business

Moonrise Azalee [07:25] Moonrise Azalee grins.. Yay, wine!

Callipygian Christensen [07:25] Just to clarify, I, nor any other member of the SC can answer the ‘what would the SC …’ because it is a voting body – each of us can only give our personal opinion and view

Shep Titian [07:25] Ok thank you Calli
[07:26] oop lost Tan

Tor Karlsvalt [07:28] Tor Karlsvalt looks forward to pips wine cellar.

Shep Titian [07:28] Moving on … but we need Tan

Rosie Gray [07:28] Rosie Gray looks forward to the wine cellar too

Pip Torok [07:28] correction Tor .. its mothercard warden’s

Rosie Gray [07:29] oh Mothercard’s

Tor Karlsvalt [07:29]

Pip Torok [07:29] (she asked me to announce it)

Lilith Ivory [07:29] (placing Tan again)

Pip Torok [07:29] wb tan

Tanoujin Milestone [07:29] phew, sorry

Shep Titian [07:29] Ok we’ll skip Tan’s report for now
[07:29] Ah there

Tanoujin Milestone [07:30] sorry, crash

Shep Titian [07:30] Tan are you able to report on the Fairground Committee?

Tanoujin Milestone [07:30] i see, quick one I apologize, did not get very far

Shep Titian [07:30] WB

Tanoujin Milestone [07:31] i interviewed the chancellor and want to invite Bags to join me in this – next time more on this
[07:31] done

Shep Titian [07:31] Ok well thanks for making a start

Tanoujin Milestone [07:32] thanks for ypur patience

Shep Titian [07:32] New business .. I would like a small update on procedure
[07:33] there is a sidenote on the agenda .. asking people to say Done clearly when finished on a subject .. I know some of you already do

Pip Torok [07:33] welcome Bromo

Shep Titian [07:33] And thank you

Bromo Ivory [07:34]

Rosie Gray [07:34] hello Bromo

Moonrise Azalee [07:34] Hi Bromo

Fern Leissa [07:34] Hi Bromo

Tor Karlsvalt [07:34] Hi Bromo

Bromo Ivory [07:34] HI all

Tanoujin Milestone [07:34] Bromo

Shep Titian [07:34] And it would if people were prepared to use the typing (or arm waving ) anim

Moonrise Azalee [07:35] Moonrise Azalee nods..

Shep Titian [07:35] Just please make it as clear as possible that you are speaking and have finished

Callipygian Christensen [07:35] Friestorm has a preference to show that someone is typing in a chat bubble above their head also

Tanoujin Milestone [07:36] I support Shep’s suggestion on procedures

Moonrise Azalee [07:36] that might be even easier.. i know my typing anim is also set in AO and one over rides the other

Pip Torok [07:36] thanks calli those with fs appreciate knowing this

Shep Titian [07:36] I don’t like shopwing weakness but I’m a single digit typer and so do miss the odd comment by lookingh at my keybnoard

Tor Karlsvalt [07:36] Tor Karlsvalt probably a good idea, but rummages around in prefs looking for that setting.

Moonrise Azalee [07:37] Text Chat i believe
[07:37] in Cool VL viewer and imp anyhow

Pip Torok [07:37] Pip Torok thinks itll level the playingfield between fluent typers and the rest

Shep Titian [07:37] trlp .. chat .. second line Tor

Rosie Gray [07:37] FS ->chat ->general tab

Tor Karlsvalt [07:38]

Shep Titian [07:38] that was CTRL p

Tor Karlsvalt [07:38] got it

Callipygian Christensen [07:38] typing indicator in bubbles is the last on that same tab

Widget Whiteberry [07:38] tests …

Moonrise Azalee [07:39] < ---finds this SO much easier Rosie Gray [07:39] trys out to see if it shows you are typing, but it doesn't until you hit return Shep Titian [07:39] just flap about and have patience Moonrise Azalee [07:39] Moonrise Azalee can see that pip is typing Shep Titian [07:40] Done on that Pip Torok [07:40] Birch .. Cool i know but what is imp? Moonrise Azalee [07:40] Moonrise Azalee grins [07:40] (imprudence) Pip Torok [07:40] ah!! tks Moonrise Azalee [07:40] Moonrise Azalee smiles Shep Titian [07:40] I can't .. how can you? Rosie Gray [07:40] I can't either Moonrise Azalee [07:40] activated Chat Bubbles [07:41] in chat -show chat bubbles Widget Whiteberry [07:41] Widget Whiteberry notes you have to see the avies to see ... and that the bubble appears when text is entering Pip Torok [07:41] Pip Torok thinks a masterclass on viewers is called for especially now SSB is almost upon us Rosie Gray [07:41] I have that activated on Firestorm, but it doesn't work that way Widget Whiteberry [07:41] not while typng [07:41] typing Rosie Gray [07:41] Rosie Gray nods Shep Titian [07:41] Ok what does that do? Moonrise Azalee [07:42] while typing i see a bubble above the avies head with ... being entered until they hit enter Widget Whiteberry [07:42] could rez a golden ball on her lap as indicator Rosie Gray [07:42] I don't see that Shep Titian [07:42] Yes And I saw Rosie's Tanoujin Milestone [07:42] smiles at Widget Moonrise Azalee [07:42] You saw Rosie entering text? Shep Titian [07:42] I saw her dots Moonrise Azalee [07:42] yes me too, and yours Shep Titian [07:43] same as you Rosie Gray [07:43] hmmm Moonrise Azalee [07:43] (and now widgets) Rosie Gray [07:43] but what viewers are you using? Moonrise Azalee [07:43] Moonrise Azalee grins [07:43] i use Cool VL Shep Titian [07:43] Your name tag changes colour Widget Whiteberry [07:43] this is good in a crowd to see who has said something [07:43] not so useful here Moonrise Azalee [07:43] which viewer do you use Widget? Shep Titian [07:43] Now Calli Rosie Gray [07:44] Rosie Gray agrees with Widget Widget Whiteberry [07:44] newest FS Callipygian Christensen [07:44] I dont have chat bubbles activated..just that one setting. Panned out to see the whole room thier nae tag wiht dots appears when anyone is typing Widget Whiteberry [07:44] it was worth testing Moonrise Azalee [07:44] maybe it only doesnt work with fs then [07:44] Moonrise Azalee nods Widget Whiteberry [07:44] I can leave it ion if it s others Rosie Gray [07:45] I just use the old annoying typing gestures [07:45] Rosie Gray grins Shep Titian [07:45] Ok well if you can adopt it for meetings it would .. [07:45] Moving on Moonrise Azalee [07:45] there is also the option of 'show 'when typing' above avatar's head' option in the same section Pip Torok [07:45] Pip Torok looks forward to whenever the same luxuries are implmented the same way on all viewers Moonrise Azalee [07:45] Moonrise Azalee nods Tor Karlsvalt [07:45] Tor Karlsvalt likes chat bubbles for meetings. Moonrise Azalee [07:46] Moonrise Azalee does also Shep Titian [07:46] Next we need a Pro Tem to take over should I have to miss a meeting Rosie Gray [07:46] oh that works now [07:46] Rosie Gray shuts up Widget Whiteberry [07:46] trying ' 'show 'when typing' above avatar's head' ' Shep Titian [07:46] Is there anyone wants the job? Moonrise Azalee [07:46] mm... no thank you Widget Whiteberry [07:46] job? Tanoujin Milestone [07:47] me listens Widget Whiteberry [07:47] got lost in tech Shep Titian [07:47] Only RA widget sorry Nolligan Nino [07:47] I'll do it.. Tanoujin Milestone [07:47] pro tempore , widget. Ranma? Ranma Tardis [07:47] yes? Moonrise Azalee [07:47] Moonrise Azalee looks at the man in the blue shirt and grins [07:48] hehe Shep Titian [07:49] Is it only Nolli that wants the job? Tanoujin Milestone [07:49] just wanted to make sure you are here Ranma Tardis [07:49] it is an easy question Shep Titian [07:49] Dear Lord Ranma Tardis [07:49] oh you are taking nominations [07:50] Shep you made a challenge so I accept it then and now Tanoujin Milestone [07:50] Shep Titian [07:50] Ok so we have two contestants Widget Whiteberry [07:51] Widget Whiteberry wonders if she will finally see lion in action Shep Titian [07:51] Calli sorry .. does this have to be an open vote? [07:53] Calli's not typing Lilith do you know? Callipygian Christensen [07:53] umm..I dont recall, but I think all votes are open Lilith Ivory [07:53] what? Shep Titian [07:54] Its ok Lil thanks Tanoujin Milestone [07:54] me raises hand Shep Titian [07:54] One sec Tan [07:54] Ok Tan Tanoujin Milestone [07:54] np Shep Titian [07:55] Go ahead Tan [07:55] Tanoujin Milestone [07:55] i suggest we vote by calling the name of the candidate we support. done Shep Titian [07:55] Ok [07:56] I'll go first .I b=vote for Nolligan Moonrise Azalee [07:56] I vote Nolligan Tanoujin Milestone [07:56] I vote Ranma Shep Titian [07:56] Tan? [07:56] K [07:57] Birch Nolligan Nino [07:57] I vote for Nolligan Ranma Tardis [07:57] vote for myself Shep Titian [07:57] Thanks Nooligan Ranma Tardis [07:57] congrats nolligan Shep Titian [07:57] Thanks Ran Nolligan Nino [07:57] thank you Moonrise Azalee [07:57] Congrats Nolligan Callipygian Christensen [07:58] For future reference re: secret votes "Section 5 – Journal The RA shall keep and publish a journal of its proceedings. The individual votes of RA members shall be entered in the journal. Parts of the journal that are deemed secret by a 2/3 majority and with concurrence of the Philosophic branch will not be published. Secret journal entries may only be deemed secret if they prevent the exploitation of the city and citizens from external threats." SO any vote like this is public. Lilith Ivory [07:58] congrats Noligan Pip Torok [07:58] congrats nolligan Shep Titian [07:58] CVongratulations Tor Karlsvalt [07:58] ?~~?~~APPLAUSE~~?~~? Tanoujin Milestone [07:58] nice Shep Titian [07:58] Thank You Calli .. [07:59] Sorry Ran .. I'll explain my vote .. Nolli is online a lot and is very keen at the moment [08:01] Ok .. moving on .. LA .. again .. Nolligan wanted to give his view on the issue [08:01] So I will yield the floor to Nooligan Nolligan Nino [08:02] Firstly I wanted tor raise a concern expressed to me by Em warden - she is experiencing problems opening notecards attached to group notices - a lack of permissions error Tor Karlsvalt [08:03] Hmm, I wonder if it is any of mine. Nolligan Nino [08:03] Moving to the agenda item number 3 Tor Karlsvalt [08:04] I will look her up and find out what the problem is. Moonrise Azalee [08:04] the last CDS one works fine for me Callipygian Christensen [08:04] That may be a lag or other issue on Em's end - I don't believe you can attach a notecard that isn't full perms, unless that has changed recently Nolligan Nino [08:04] (apologies I am experiencing packet loss and some of this may appear in the wrong order) [08:04] Locus Amoenus: This sim is not doing well, I am reliably informed that it has an occupancy rate of 49% This is neither desirable nor sustainable. [08:05] My honourable friend Tanoujin produced a report on it in Jan this year - I recommend reading it is candid and paints a bleak picture, and if anything matters have gotten worse since then. [08:06] 80% occupancy is required to break even. As far as I am aware there have been several attempts to relaunch it. [08:06] A number of citizens have spent substantial sums renovating and improving parcels in LA. We should thank Tan and Lillith (apologies if I have neglected to mention anyone) I also commend the efforts of all the residents of LA in trying to improve their sim. [08:06] However, multiple parcels remain empty and traffic is low. We have reached a moment where we can not afford to let matters drift. [08:07] I think that we have 4 principle options: [08:07] 1) Raise tier to cover the expense of LA and re-dedicate a large portion of the sim as a public space for events. [08:08] 2) Downgrade the sim to a homestead, hopefully this option would allow present residents there to keep their parcels. [08:08] 3) Get rid of the whole sim. Not my preferred option but may have to happen but in my opinion only after a plebiscite . [08:08] 4) McCawberism - carrying on and hoping that 'something will turn up' . This could be the Cedar Island initiative or a redesign. However, this could just be a case of 'kicking the can further down the road'. If something does not turn up we will be left with the same problem as now - but with a smaller cash pile. [08:09] I must stress that I do not favour 3) getting rid of the sim, but it has been raised by some citizens and needs to be considered as an option.
[08:09] What we need is a vigorous debate about the future of LA and more importantly a commitment to action.
[08:10] Now is the time to commence that debate.
[08:10] DONE

Shep Titian [08:10] Thank you Nolligan

Pip Torok [08:10] Pip Torok has one question:

Shep Titian [08:10] Taking comments from the floor
[08:10] Pip

Fern Leissa [08:11] Fern Leissa raises hand

Pip Torok [08:11] will option 2 cure the deficit with present numbers? done

Widget Whiteberry [08:11] Widget Whiteberry raises hand

Ranma Tardis [08:11] I support holding on for awhile raising taxes

Rosie Gray [08:11] Rosie Gray raises hand

Shep Titian [08:12] Fern

Nolligan Nino [08:12] I think Tor has been doing some work on that option
[08:12] Bagheera Kristan is online

Shep Titian [08:12] After Fren Widget then Rosie

Tor Karlsvalt [08:12] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Fern Leissa [08:12] Could someone clarify the cost of LA? Is this a grandfathered sim? I’m wondering what the costs and savings would be if we downgrade to homestead. done

Shep Titian [08:13] Thank you Fern

Tor Karlsvalt [08:13] Tor Karlsvalt may I answer Fern?

Fern Leissa [08:13] [whispers] Hi Bags

Shep Titian [08:13] Widget

Widget Whiteberry [08:13] /em waits for a reply to Fern’s good question

Fern Leissa [08:13] Sure Tor. Thanks

Widget Whiteberry [08:13] oh, to do you want my question now?

Shep Titian [08:13] Yes Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [08:13] Thanks

Shep Titian [08:14] After Tor Widget thx

Tor Karlsvalt [08:14] LA tier is $295.00, it is not grandfathered. Our grandfathered sims are NFS, $195.00; CN, $195 and Monastery, $95.00
[08:15] AM and LA are both $295.00 per month

Tanoujin Milestone [08:15] that is correct

Fern Leissa [08:16] brb phone

Shep Titian [08:16] kk
[08:16] Widget?

Widget Whiteberry [08:16] Have the current residents expressed a preference between options 1 & 2? Done

Fern Leissa [08:17] back. Thanks Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [08:17] Tor Karlsvalt can I speak to Widget’s question?

Widget Whiteberry [08:17] er, or opinions about options 1 & 2. sorry
[08:17] Widget Whiteberry is really done

Shep Titian [08:18] Well Alexia would be happy to stay .. but is prepared to move the Time Machine

Tor Karlsvalt [08:18] Ms. LRA, may I speak to this?

Shep Titian [08:19] A number of parcels are ones bought to reduce the yellow .. and I know one wants the freedom to buy elsewhere back
[08:19] Yes Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [08:19] Thank you

Shep Titian [08:19] not forgotten you Rosie

Rosie Gray [08:20] ?

Lilith Ivory [08:20] Lilith Ivory raises her hand

Tor Karlsvalt [08:21] I think you are correct in your assessment. Alexia is the only citizen who is solely in LA. The rest of us have land elsewhere in CDS. I would not expect too much of an increase in ownership in ohter sims if LA were deleted.
[08:21] done

Shep Titian [08:21] Noted Lilith I’ll call you after Rosie

Bagheera Kristan [08:21] /raises hand

Shep Titian [08:21] Rosie first

Rosie Gray [08:21] thanks

Tanoujin Milestone [08:22] me raises hand

Shep Titian [08:22] Seen you Bags

Bagheera Kristan [08:22]
Shep Titian [08:22] After Bags Tan

Rosie Gray [08:22] I was wondering if anyone knows what the status of the discussions/proposal from the Cedar Island folks is
[08:22] and if there has been anything from Delia or Jon on that
[08:22] done

Shep Titian [08:23] Thanks .. nothing new from her .. OI spoke with her a few days ago and nothing forthcoming at that time
[08:23] Lilith?

Tor Karlsvalt [08:23] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Callipygian Christensen [08:24] Cedar is meeting right now

Lilith Ivory [08:24] I just wanted to mention that if we downgrate LA to a homestead the price per prim needs to go up as a homestead is always more expensive than a full Sim

Shep Titian [08:25] Ok thanks Lil
[08:25] Tan was next

Callipygian Christensen [08:25] Homestead also limits number of avatars allowed in doesnt it?
[08:25] ..didnt mean to hit enter..sorry

Shep Titian [08:26] it does Calli .. to 20

Tanoujin Milestone [08:26] In reply to Tor: I am maxed out at La solely, and I will move if it is off. done

Shep Titian [08:26] Thanks Tan

Ranma Tardis [08:26] raises hand

Shep Titian [08:26] Ranma?

Bagheera Kristan [08:26] /raises hand higher?

Fern Leissa [08:26] wb Tan

Tanoujin Milestone [08:26] sorry, crashed. I withdraw

Shep Titian [08:26] Oop sorry Bags

Tor Karlsvalt [08:27] Tor Karlsvalt would like to go after Bags

Shep Titian [08:27] Right noted Tor

Ranma Tardis [08:27] the problem with homestead is the size of the lots not the prims. Had a lot in monastary and it was unbuildable.

Tor Karlsvalt [08:27] Tor Karlsvalt means “speak” Go for speak is a Chicagoism.

Ranma Tardis [08:27] so it comes down to keeping the sim or not

Bagheera Kristan [08:28] speaking for myself, I prefer LA – although I own a larger parcel in CN, that was temporary and I had really wanted to move over to LA. I have a small apartment in LA now…
[08:28] I had also been wanting to hold events but was told to hold off until after Cedar Island was resolved.

Ranma Tardis [08:28] I think we need to give it more time and relax the overbearing convadents

Bagheera Kristan [08:28] with the intention to promote the sim. done. thank you.

Shep Titian [08:29] Who said that?

Ranma Tardis [08:29] in place

Bagheera Kristan [08:29] I forget

Tor Karlsvalt [08:29] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Shep Titian [08:29] Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [08:29] Thanks

Ranma Tardis [08:29] so I am against closing the sim or reducing it, done

Tor Karlsvalt [08:29] During the Ball, Jon mentioned that he would meet with Delia and others to work out some proposal. I lately asked Delia, but it seems both her and Jon have been very busy with work in RL these past few weeks.

Pip Torok [08:29] Pip Torok raises hand

Shep Titian [08:29] Thanks Ran

Tor Karlsvalt [08:29] Regardign some other concerns:
[08:30] Yes I agree homestaed prims are more expensive.

Shep Titian [08:30] Pip

Tor Karlsvalt [08:30] and a homestead allows only 20 AVs at one time. So not much good for events.
[08:30] done

Pip Torok [08:31] disagree that homestead la makes it “unbuildable .. ppl wd and do adapt done

Shep Titian [08:31] What events

Tor Karlsvalt [08:31] [08:31] We typically had many events in LA

Shep Titian [08:31] I have always lived on homesteads .. they’re great

Pip Torok [08:31] and other locales are available .. eg the oldbowk in am

Moonrise Azalee [08:32] Moonrise Azalee raises her hand

Pip Torok [08:32] oldbowl

Fern Leissa [08:32] Fern Leissa raises hand

Lilith Ivory [08:32] Lilith Ivory raises her hand

Shep Titian [08:32] Birch

Moonrise Azalee [08:32] Thank you… I was just going to say that I lived in Monastery, and did not find the prims an issue. Certainly not as difficult as say my 18 prim allowance in CN. Done

Shep Titian [08:33] thanks
[08:33] Fern

Ranma Tardis [08:33] raises hand

Shep Titian [08:33] Lilith after Fern then you Ran

Fern Leissa [08:34] I agree with Ranma. I do not yet want to see the sim shut down and I do to see a real advantage to convert it to a homestead

Tor Karlsvalt [08:34]
Shep Titian [08:34] Ok
[08:34] Bagheera Kristan is offline
[08:34] Lilith

Lilith Ivory [08:34] I´ve two comments

Fern Leissa [08:34] I would rather see an increase in tier across the sims it we cannot improve the vacancy rate by the end of the summmer

Rosie Gray [08:34] Rosie Gray raises hand

Lilith Ivory [08:35] firs the size of a parcel on a homestead can be designed how ever we want. It all depends on the prim factor

Fern Leissa [08:35] I would very much like to revisit some redesigning of the sim though I am very impressed with a lot of the builds that have gone up this past year. The sim looks very nice. done

Shep Titian [08:36] Thanks Fern

Lilith Ivory [08:36] second: I hate to say it but as far as I know we had problems with vacant land in LA from the beginning so I don´t know how long we should keep waiting for something to happen

Shep Titian [08:36] Good point .. we keep going there
[08:36] Ranm,a

Tor Karlsvalt [08:37] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Shep Titian [08:37] After Ran Tor

Widget Whiteberry [08:37] Widget Whiteberry raises hand

Rosie Gray [08:38] Rosie Gray waves hand around
[08:38] ahem

Ranma Tardis [08:38] Think the problem is with the covenants and think if we loosed up on the rp of medevil will fill the sim

Shep Titian [08:38] Widget after Tor

Rosie Gray [08:38] I was after Ranma, Shep

Ranma Tardis [08:38] saying that I motion to end discussion and vote

Shep Titian [08:38] Rosie have OI missed you?

Rosie Gray [08:39] yes maam
[08:39] can I speak?

Shep Titian [08:39] Thanks RAn .. no vote today
[08:39] Rosie
[08:39] Bagheera Kristan is online

Rosie Gray [08:39] I think that we should get an answer from Delia and Jon first before doing anything else,

Ranma Tardis [08:40] coughs I must go
[08:40] 7 day on any vote please

Rosie Gray [08:40] and I wanted to say I agree with Ranma about loosing up the covenants would

Tanoujin Milestone [08:40] , Ranma, see you soon

Widget Whiteberry [08:40] Widget Whiteberry waits for her turn

Moonrise Azalee [08:40] Ran

Ranma Tardis [08:40] RL calls

Shep Titian [08:40] Ah ok Ranma .. this won’t be voted on as Rosie says we need to see all the options

Callipygian Christensen [08:41] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[08:41] Bagheera Kristan is offline

Rosie Gray [08:41] and I also think that if all of these things don’t work, then a homestead would be a good idea
[08:41] done

Shep Titian [08:41] Ok is getting out of kilter Widget

Widget Whiteberry [08:41] my turn?

Shep Titian [08:42] It was after Tor but he seems to have stopped
[08:42] So go ahead

Tor Karlsvalt [08:42] I agree with Lilith. If you look at the history of LA, it has been beset with constant problems. It is also somewhat of a danger politically as it allows for “invasion”. I want to keep it nonetheless. But it needs a new focus. A new theme. Preferably one close to CN in character but more modern. The ancient theme just isn’t a draw. Even in hard times, other sims seem more attractive to new people.

Shep Titian [08:42] oop he had’nt

Rosie Gray [08:43] Rosie Gray agrees with Tor too

Moonrise Azalee [08:43] Moonrise Azalee nods in agreement with Tor’s words

Nolligan Nino [08:43] apologies for my absence – I had to tunnel through the great firewall to log in – and may disappear…

Rosie Gray [08:43] ?

Tanoujin Milestone [08:43] wb

Shep Titian [08:43] WB Nolli

Tor Karlsvalt [08:44] wb Nolli

Widget Whiteberry [08:44] hands Nolli a clean towel for the tunnel dust

Fern Leissa [08:44] hehe

Lilith Ivory [08:44] what Tor just said is the consent we had at the citizens meetings last term

Nolligan Nino [08:44] ?

Widget Whiteberry [08:45] Tor, are you done?

Tor Karlsvalt [08:45] Tor Karlsvalt wonders if the NSA is watching internet in China
[08:45] oh sorry syes

Widget Whiteberry [08:46] ok, me then?

Shep Titian [08:46] Good on ya Widget

Widget Whiteberry [08:46] smiles
[08:46] Before coming to CDS, I was the EM for a full sim. I was VERY attached to it, as attached as I might be to real land. Within my time constraints, I tried many ways to make it pay, but it wouldn’t. It was wrenching to leave it behind. But, once I settled in here, all that went away.
[08:46] The existing theme begs for rp ….. but I don’t think it’s the only problem.
[08:46] Having no attachment to LA and just listening to talk about it these past months, I’m in favor of closing LA and focusing our efforts on the remaining 4 sims.
[08:47] Finally, a question: if we do that, close LA, have we resolved the persistent money leak?
[08:47] DONE (and thank you)

Shep Titian [08:47] Thank you Widget

Tor Karlsvalt [08:47] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Nolligan Nino [08:47] Point of information: as I crashed I was answering a question about Cedar Island – there are having ameeting as we speak scheduled to start at 08:00 am . Delia told me this.

Tor Karlsvalt [08:48] ah

Rosie Gray [08:48] 8 am today?

Shep Titian [08:48] Thanks Nolli yes we had that info

Tor Karlsvalt [08:48] Tor Karlsvalt heartened my the good news.

Shep Titian [08:48] Calli its your time?
[08:50] Ok Calli is leaving shortly .. but for the record she has left this comment that I entirely agree with .: I suggest asking Cedar to give some reply by a certain date – its unresonable for CDS to keep waiting on a possibility that has only sen one person form there speak about it or show interest here.

Moonrise Azalee [08:50] Moonrise Azalee raises her hand

Widget Whiteberry [08:51] Widget Whiteberry raises her hand

Shep Titian [08:51] Birch

Moonrise Azalee [08:52] thank you.. just a question that perhaps Tor can answer.. i know LA is losing money, however how is it in the scale of all sims. With all five together, are we breaking even or on the hole. Is LA the factor behind that? Just looking for an overall understandign of LA as part of the whole. Done

Tor Karlsvalt [08:53] Can I respond to birch

Shep Titian [08:53] Yes Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [08:53] Thank you

Antonius Camus [08:53] [whispers] Hiya.

Lilith Ivory [08:54] Hi Tony

Tor Karlsvalt [08:56] OK, this is getting ahead of my statement, but I have a spreadsheet showing a proposed tier increase. It is inter active. I am allowing you all access to one copy so you can plug in tier rates. In response to Birch, however, no it does’t. CDS will still lose money without LA. Not as much, but some. Here is the link to the interactive sheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … sp=sharing
[08:57] on the summary page, if you have the tier rate, you will see how differing rates affect the balance of payments of LL tier. I note, that there are expenses over and above tier.

Moonrise Azalee [08:57] Moonrise Azalee nods

Shep Titian [08:57] But iof the people now in LA move .. its likely they will buy parcel elsewhere

Tor Karlsvalt [08:57] Web hosting for one, but also, events.
[08:58] Possibly shep. Tho that is uncertain.
[08:59] I also need to update a few occupancy codes. We have had a couple of new people since I posted that sheet.
[08:59] done

Shep Titian [08:59] And if they did’nt I would say CDS has an even bigger question to answer

Tor Karlsvalt [08:59] Well, I am allowed only 8 parcels. Three of them are now in LA.

Moonrise Azalee [09:00] Moonrise Azalee had a moment trying to find summary page—tab on bottom.. genius

Tor Karlsvalt [09:00] Tan is already a bit over extended in LA.

Tanoujin Milestone [09:00]
Shep Titian [09:00] Why do you buy 8 parcels?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:01] I should note, if Cedar wants in, we may want to consider changes to LA to make it suitable.

Tanoujin Milestone [09:01] to keep it up

Shep Titian [09:01] Do you use them all?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:01] Um, I use them. I have been in LA with the same three parcels for more than a year, maybe two.

Shep Titian [09:01] If we do that for Cedar we should look in general to change things

Moonrise Azalee [09:02] Moonrise Azalee would still love to see a brand new look for LA if kept.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:02] one parcel is only a fachwerk and prim parcel in NfS.

Moonrise Azalee [09:02] Moonrise Azalee nods

Tanoujin Milestone [09:03] sorry, my time is up. Thank you, great meeting.

Moonrise Azalee [09:03] … if i may, people like to express their creativity and it can be difficult within the confines and be attractive to only certain groups of people. Not necessarily bad, but just difficult.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:03] I might point out, that with a tier increase LA might support a large event space.

Rosie Gray [09:03] Tan!

Tor Karlsvalt [09:03] just throwing that out.

Fern Leissa [09:03] Tan

Moonrise Azalee [09:03] Sorry Tan.. and yes i have to get goign here sooon too.

Callipygian Christensen [09:03] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[09:03] (back from the shower

Tor Karlsvalt [09:03] done

Shep Titian [09:03] Tan

Pip Torok [09:03] i must go as well folks … see you all!

Shep Titian [09:03] Calli

Rosie Gray [09:03] Rosie Gray waves to Pip

Moonrise Azalee [09:03] Pip

Fern Leissa [09:04] [whispers] hair is still wet Calli

Pip Torok [09:04]
Shep Titian [09:04] Pip

Fern Leissa [09:04] Pip

Tor Karlsvalt [09:04] Tor Karlsvalt gets coffee

Callipygian Christensen [09:04] Personally I oppose tire increase. The surplus is there for this sort of thing – establish a wy to try to revive LA, set a date for it to work by or ot, then act accordingly, allowing the surplus to cover the shortfall in that time

Moonrise Azalee [09:05] Moonrise Azalee nods

Callipygian Christensen [09:05] Once before parcels were sold with no cost for land..just 3 months tier as first payment..
[09:06] that could be done again and advertised – its not as if each parcel hasnt been sold and covered its initial cost many times already
[09:06] done

Shep Titian [09:06] Likes it when the Dean speaks sence

Moonrise Azalee [09:06] Moonrise Azalee nods in agreement

Tor Karlsvalt [09:06] Tor Karlsvalt nods, that was a special arrangement and one I took advantage of when I bought me first parcel.

Shep Titian [09:06] Thank you Calli

Callipygian Christensen [09:06] Callipygian Christensen is speking as Calli

Fern Leissa [09:06] Fern Leissa raises hand

Rosie Gray [09:06] Rosie Gray likes Calli’s idea

Callipygian Christensen [09:06] Tor..me too..in LA as a matter of fact

Tor Karlsvalt [09:07] Tor Karlsvalt notes also that land prices at the time were way out of proportion to reality.

Shep Titian [09:07] Ok we can agree a date while we are here
[09:07] Get iot on record

Callipygian Christensen [09:07] many many estates now folow the X months of tier, no actual cost of land model

Tor Karlsvalt [09:08] Tor Karlsvalt nods

Callipygian Christensen [09:08] ok..I am off to be a witness at a wedding..later everyone!

Fern Leissa [09:08] Calli

Tor Karlsvalt [09:08] Callie

Shep Titian [09:08] Yes I agree Calli .. you don’t see them with a cost to buy these days
[09:08] Enjoy hun

Moonrise Azalee [09:09] Calli

Tor Karlsvalt [09:09] Ms. LRA, would you rather have my statement just posted to the forum?

Shep Titian [09:10] Ok we’re down to two .. so lets get this wound up .. I will take this to the forum .. will start it up .. and we keep it on agenda until a decision is made
[09:10] Agree to move on Birch?

Moonrise Azalee [09:10] Aye
[09:10] Moonrise Azalee smiles

Shep Titian [09:11] Aye
[09:12] He needs a poke

Tor Karlsvalt [09:12] oh sorry
[09:12] me?

Shep Titian [09:12] Yay

Tor Karlsvalt [09:12] [09:13] Oh ok, it is long and I was going to post it to the forum anyway.
[09:13] But I can just jet it in if you like.

Shep Titian [09:13] Yes its meant to go there first

Tor Karlsvalt [09:13] ok
[09:13] here or in the forum?

Shep Titian [09:13] It goes forum/ amend if needed / to RA

Widget Whiteberry [09:13] Widget Whiteberry bio break …. will read up shortly

Tor Karlsvalt [09:14] ok
[09:14] I do ask that we have another RA this month however.

Shep Titian [09:14] Ok so will you post it formally and then we can ratify next meeting

Tor Karlsvalt [09:15] ok

Rosie Gray [09:15] have to go all… now

Shep Titian [09:15] lovely

Tor Karlsvalt [09:15] Roise

Moonrise Azalee [09:15] Rosie

Tor Karlsvalt [09:15] Rosie

Shep Titian [09:15] Rosie hun thanks for coming

Moonrise Azalee [09:15] Does it have to be this month?

Shep Titian [09:15] Ok Birch .. next meeting
[09:16] No we can do a monthly one

Moonrise Azalee [09:16] Moonrise Azalee looks over at Tor

Shep Titian [09:16] Sat 3rd August?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:16] It would be nice to resolve a tier issue this month.
[09:17] One way or another.

Moonrise Azalee [09:17] Sat 3rd August works for me.. i am gone from the 22nd til the end of the month for July

Shep Titian [09:17] Well Atm you have 3-4 nays

Tor Karlsvalt [09:17] Tor Karlsvalt marks his Calendar.

Moonrise Azalee [09:18] Can we make it 8am or does it need to be 7? 7 is a smidge too early :/
[09:18] tho i can do it

Shep Titian [09:18] So if you push it I think you’d lose

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] Tor Karlsvalt reflects on the power of the purse.

Shep Titian [09:18] Lets do 8 am hun

Moonrise Azalee [09:18] Moonrise Azalee smiles
[09:18] ok so August 3rd, Saturday 8am

Shep Titian [09:18] this was a long meeting today

Moonrise Azalee [09:18] Hell yeah

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] yes, but a good one

Shep Titian [09:19] Yep ..

Fern Leissa [09:19] Agreed

Tor Karlsvalt [09:19] I think it ed to frame some of the issues.

Moonrise Azalee [09:19] Moonrise Azalee nods
[09:19] ive got to get back onto the forums for discussion further regarding topics today.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:19] the Cedar meeting must be over. Jon logged.

Shep Titian [09:20] Yes Tor .. oh I should ask Tor do you want to give any statement atm?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:20] haha

Shep Titian [09:20]

Tor Karlsvalt [09:20] Well it was a long one, I could do it now or post it

Shep Titian [09:20] Does it need a vote?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:22] hmmm, well maybe the part relating to a proposed tier increase. Perhaps that should just be included in the agenda for next meeting.
[09:22] at best I expected it to be tabled today anyway.

Shep Titian [09:22] Yes .. we’re not quorate now

Tor Karlsvalt [09:22] I could just add something about SL10

Shep Titian [09:23] Yes good go ahead .. you have the floor

Tor Karlsvalt [09:23] Thanks
[09:23] First let me state we had a successful exhibit at SL10B. I heard from a number of you via IM and some posted to the forum how well they enjoyed the exhibit. I must thank some for all the hard work they did for CDS in putting on the exhibit. First of all, Lilith Ivory make a wonderful pavilion. I think without her work we would not have had such a successful exhibit. But also important were the contributions from Sudane, who always comes through with an informative exhibit about our mission, Gwyn who provided some old pictures and a history of CDS, Trebor who ed assembled some historic dates and um, myself for creating the timeline. (Don’t want to be immodest but that was some work.)
[09:23] I will place the exhibit on some land I own in Alpine Meadow for any who might have missed it.
[09:24] I would also note that we have some new people in CDS. Fern is back as well as AmelieScarlett,
Cleo Xigalia, and Seraphiel Galaxy. We have one other old timer who’s name escapes me at the moment.

Widget Whiteberry [09:24] Widget Whiteberry makes a note to see that exhibit … in lag free environment

Moonrise Azalee [09:25] Moonrise Azalee nods and makes a similar note

Tor Karlsvalt [09:25] I would also, like to thank you all for a very good RA meeting today. Thanks to Shep for running it very well.

Moonrise Azalee [09:25] Moonrise Azalee claps
[09:25] WOOT

Tor Karlsvalt [09:25] done

Fern Leissa [09:25] clap clap clap thank you Shep!

Shep Titian [09:25] Aww shoot thx

Tor Karlsvalt [09:25]
Shep Titian [09:25] Keep the old girl onside!

Moonrise Azalee [09:25]
Shep Titian [09:26] hehehehehehehehehehe
[09:26] Anyone else got anything?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:26]
Widget Whiteberry [09:26] nope

Moonrise Azalee [09:26] nada

Shep Titian [09:26] Ok I propose we adjourn

Moonrise Azalee [09:27] i second that

Shep Titian [09:27] Vote .. aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:27] AYE

Permalink.

RA Meeting 3 August 2013

03 August 2013 Transcript of RA Meeting
by Bagheera » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:56 am
Tanoujin Milestone [08:14] Volunteers to chair in case LRA does not show up until 8:20?

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:14] me

Tanoujin Milestone [08:14] hehehe

Ranma Tardis [08:14] laughs

Callipygian Christensen [08:15] You could call the meeting to order and handle the admin thngs, then turn it over to Shep on arrival

Tanoujin Milestone [08:15] Would be fun, but I guess it is unconstitutional

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:15] .kidding

Tanoujin Milestone [08:15] Ranma? Would you like to?

Ranma Tardis [08:15] sure

Tanoujin Milestone [08:15] Birch, is that okay?

Moonrise Azalee [08:16] Sure. i have rl waking up all around me and would not be a good choice

Tanoujin Milestone [08:16] okay. Please proceed, dear Ranma

Callipygian Christensen [08:16] If anyone needs the agenda its in yesterday’s notice or IM me and Ill dropit in your window

Ranma Tardis [08:17] first the formal vote

Tanoujin Milestone [08:17] thank you Calli
[08:17] Ranma? Do you need a motion?

Ranma Tardis [08:17] so if you will please vote yes or no for me to be speaker pro temp
[08:17] yes please

Moonrise Azalee [08:17] yes

Ranma Tardis [08:18] yes

Tanoujin Milestone [08:18] I move to let Ranma chair the meeting until the LRA or pro Tempore arrives

Moonrise Azalee [08:18] i second

Ranma Tardis [08:18] vote please
[08:18] aye

Tanoujin Milestone [08:18] aye

Moonrise Azalee [08:18] aye

Ranma Tardis [08:18] ok that being done I call the meeting to order
[08:19] first order of business is administrative
[08:20] review and approve agenda

Tanoujin Milestone [08:20] raises hand

Ranma Tardis [08:20] go ahead

Tanoujin Milestone [08:20] I would like to give you a Fairground committee report
[08:20] done

Ranma Tardis [08:21] ok but first we need to follow the scrip

Tanoujin Milestone [08:21] sure

Ranma Tardis [08:21] I move we adopt the agenda

Moonrise Azalee [08:21] second

Ranma Tardis [08:21] vote please

Tanoujin Milestone [08:21] aye

Moonrise Azalee [08:21] aye

Ranma Tardis [08:21] aye

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:22] wb

Ranma Tardis [08:22] who wants to speak on todays topics?

Fern Leissa [08:22] ty

Callipygian Christensen [08:22] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Soro Dagostino [08:22] Soro raises hand.

Delia Lake [08:23] Delia Lake raises her hand

Widget Whiteberry [08:23] Widget Whiteberry raises her hand

Covey Homewood [08:23] covey raises her hand

Lilith Ivory [08:23] Lilith Ivory waves hi

Tor Karlsvalt [08:23] brb

Ranma Tardis [08:24] okies noted
[08:24] anyone else?

Delia Lake [08:25] Rosie may wish to but she just came inworld

Ranma Tardis [08:25] you will have a chance to speak when the new business
[08:25] any citicens concerns?
[08:25] citizens

Tor Karlsvalt [08:26] b

Covey Homewood [08:26] I’m not sure what that means” “any citizen concerns”
[08:26] sorry, new to this meeting format

Ranma Tardis [08:26] any citizen

Alexia Carnell [08:26] yes some concerns about anarchy in LA

Ranma Tardis [08:26] please go on

Alexia Carnell [08:27] i just notice that anybody can build whatever wherever he wants and i frankly do NOT like it

Callipygian Christensen [08:27] Covey – general concerns about CDS that may not be covered in agenda items

Alexia Carnell [08:27] and i have nothing else to add

Tanoujin Milestone [08:27] me raises hand

Ranma Tardis [08:27] please continue

Tanoujin Milestone [08:28] may I?

Ranma Tardis [08:28] yes

Alexia Carnell [08:28] i propose to abolish covenants in LA and make it a sandbox so we’ll all be happy

Trebor Warcliffe [08:28] Tuscany

Tor Karlsvalt [08:28] Raises Hand

Tanoujin Milestone [08:28] Alexia, your concern has been adressed. The Mosque will be boxed and replaced by a temple. The rest is for our private converstation, i think done

Covey Homewood [08:28] Who are you referring to Alexia?

Ranma Tardis [08:29] Covey please wait your turn

Alexia Carnell [08:29] i ‘m not referring to anybody
[08:29] i’m rfeferring to COVENANTS

Callipygian Christensen [08:29] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Alexia Carnell [08:29] which appear to be totally unuseful

Ranma Tardis [08:29] anything else?

Alexia Carnell [08:29] strict or large
[08:29] woint make any difference

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises her hand too

Alexia Carnell [08:30] i am finished

Ranma Tardis [08:30] Callipygian your turn
[08:31] you can speak noe
[08:32] now
[08:32] okies Cleo your turn

Tor Karlsvalt [08:32] Raises hand

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:33] Enforcing the covenents of CDS is one of the major duties of the chancellor. If we do not like how the current chancellor makes decisions it seems we should deal with the chancellor directly and then make note of how the chancellor chooses to use his or her power, and their ability to implement the rules fairly and with good sense. Then, remember when you VOTE or when you choose not to run for chancellor next term.

Ranma Tardis [08:33] you are next Tor

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:33] Do not keep electing a chancellor if you do not like how they use their power.
[08:33] By virtue of the many number of times Tor has been elected or made chancellor by default because no one else ran, it would seem the majority of the citizens MUST be pleased with his work.
[08:33] personally i question most the hobo camp and red underwear
[08:33] done

Ranma Tardis [08:34] hobo camp?

Tanoujin Milestone [08:34] Tanoujin Milestone takes another note

Lilith Ivory [08:34] Lilith Ivory laughs

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:34] the hobo camp in Locus

Trebor Warcliffe [08:34] I vote for pink underwear

Moonrise Azalee [08:34] Moonrise Azalee grins

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:34] its more roman

Lilith Ivory [08:34] may we have blue and white one?

Ranma Tardis [08:34] ok Tor your turn

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:34]

Tor Karlsvalt [08:34] Thank you Cleo for the early campain speech.

Trebor Warcliffe [08:34] @ Tor

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:34] I am not running

Widget Whiteberry [08:34] Widget Whiteberry snickers

Tor Karlsvalt [08:35] Regarding the mosque
[08:35] The issue has been dealt with and it will be removed.

Ranma Tardis [08:35] yes

Trebor Warcliffe [08:35] Chancellor Cleo does have a nice ring to it hehe

Callipygian Christensen [08:35] my turn.ok

Tor Karlsvalt [08:35] I remind the group that we are not a rp sim
[08:35] we may form time to time have anachronims
[08:36] we have others visible in LA now, by several citizens
[08:36] Also, we will be updating the covenant and theme of LA to be more tolerant and modern.

Callipygian Christensen [08:36] Alexia, or anyone for that matter with knowledge of architecture and history, I am sure any Chancellor would appreciate in reviewing builds for covenant compliance. Perhaps meeting with him, since it is currently Tor, to address builds that are a concern so he can start a process of dealing with them done

Tor Karlsvalt [08:37] I think that is basically what people have been pushing for with all these variances.

Ranma Tardis [08:37] ok Call

Tor Karlsvalt [08:38] I remind the group also, that other chancellors have allowed variances to a far greater degree. I think Cleo had an Egyptian build for quite some time.
[08:38] finally
[08:38] New people in CDS this summer;

Ariel Lancaster, of Cedar Island, LA
Fern Leissa, CN
Carlo Islar, LA
Kate Miranda, of Cedar Island, LA
Covey Homewood, of Cedar Island, LA
Manfed Tomsen, NFS
KarenSunshine Renierd (karensunshine emerald), CN
AmelieScarlet Resident, NFS
Seraphiel Galaxy, NFS
Caesar Xigalia, CN and NFS

Please join me in welcoming our new citizens.

Alexia Carnell [08:38] Alexia Carnell raises hand

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises her hand again

Tor Karlsvalt [08:38] Many are here now, Welcome.
[08:38] done

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:38] Ceasar does not own land in NFS

Tanoujin Milestone [08:38] Welcome, yes

Ranma Tardis [08:38] Call do you have anything more?

Lilith Ivory [08:39] welcome all new citizens

Tor Karlsvalt [08:39] no, Ranma

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia does raise hand ..

Delia Lake [08:39] Here here, welcome to all our new citizens!

Soro Dagostino [08:39] WOOOOOT!!!!

Trebor Warcliffe [08:39] Yes indeed welcome one and all!!!

Ranma Tardis [08:39] Ok Cleo please continue

Callipygian Christensen [08:39] welcome new citizens!

Ranma Tardis [08:40] yes welcome!

Callipygian Christensen [08:40] (and welcome back in some cases

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:40] thank you for the snide remarks, and yes i had an egyptian thing in la years ago…. 2.. What is the legal action that needs to be taken to change the covenents not just interpret

Ranma Tardis [08:40] Cleo you have the floor

Covey Homewood [08:40] forgot to include Imper Fegte from Cedar Island

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:40] fern do you know what it takes to change covenents ?

Tor Karlsvalt [08:41] Tor Karlsvalt laughs at the question

Ranma Tardis [08:41] moving on
[08:41] new business

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:41] tor you are making a jerk of yourself love.
[08:41] h

Ranma Tardis [08:42] Ms Xigalia no personal attacks during the meeting

Alexia Carnell [08:42] Please you all stop personal attacks – we are here to talk about LA

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand

Ranma Tardis [08:42] one last time

Alexia Carnell [08:42] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Ranma Tardis [08:43] I remind people to be civil to each other
[08:43] we are waiting Cleo

Delia Lake [08:43] Delia Lake volunteers to work with the Chancellor to propose modified/updated covenants for the sims

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:43] 1/ if you read back I was attacked first… 2/ asking how the covenents get changed is a legitimatequestion

Ranma Tardis [08:44] this is not grade school
[08:44] Alexia your turn

Alexia Carnell [08:44] Gettin back to LA… i suggest we ask Sudane’s opinion on how they manage good quality in new england sims. There the resuklts are bright. Loosening covenants in LA will not be a solution.
[08:44] My personal opinion is that CDS should strongly protect the environmental and architectural quality of Locus Amoenus. I therefore propose either an entirely built sim – or 2nd option a “catalogue” of houses to rez – or (3rd option at worst) a redefinition of covenants with a strict control – which up to now we largely demonstrate we are not able to manage or guarantee.

Ranma Tardis [08:44] okies moving to new business

Alexia Carnell [08:45] finished

Ranma Tardis [08:45] the Budget
[08:45] Tor any comments?

Tor Karlsvalt [08:45] Thanks

Ranma Tardis [08:46] oh backing up RA members

Tanoujin Milestone [08:46] Hi Shep

Delia Lake [08:46] hi Shep

Ranma Tardis [08:46] Hi Shep

Moonrise Azalee [08:46] Shep!

Tor Karlsvalt [08:46] I can only say that I think we will actually be better off this quarter than in past quarters.

Soro Dagostino [08:46] Hello Shep . . .

Alexia Carnell [08:46] Welcome Shep

Shep Titian [08:46] I am sooooo sorry .. RL

Tanoujin Milestone [08:46] We voted to let Ranma chair until you arrive

Tor Karlsvalt [08:46] I hope all were able to review the budget.
[08:46] It is actually modest.

Ranma Tardis [08:46] forgot to finish old business

Tanoujin Milestone [08:47] I suggest you let her finish the point or take over with start of new business
[08:47] done

Ranma Tardis [08:47] so hold one, after this will yied the chair to Shep

Tor Karlsvalt [08:47] that is all.

Callipygian Christensen [08:47] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand for when discussion starts

Tor Karlsvalt [08:47] done

Ranma Tardis [08:47] I have a concern about the mosque

Shep Titian [08:47] OK I’m having problems with flashing blocks of colour I have to relogg

Soro Dagostino [08:48] Soro Dagostino raises hand

Widget Whiteberry [08:48] pt of information, please provide context on ‘mosque’ issue

Fern Leissa [08:48] Fern Leissa raises hand

Ranma Tardis [08:48] religious freedom is more important that the convedants

Shep Titian [08:48] Better

Ranma Tardis [08:49] we need to be respectful of all religions

Tanoujin Milestone [08:49] Hi Bags

Shep Titian [08:49] OK have you all got an agenda?

Ranma Tardis [08:49] any other RA concerns?

Bagheera Kristan [08:49] hi

Fern Leissa [08:49] Hi Bags

Ranma Tardis [08:49] I yield the chair to you Madame LRA

Tanoujin Milestone [08:50] not from me
[08:50] thank you, Raqnma, well done!

Shep Titian [08:50] Thank you Ranma

Alexia Carnell [08:50] I want a bufddhist Gompa
[08:50] *buddist

Tor Karlsvalt [08:50]
CLEOPATRA Xigalia [08:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hands

Moonrise Azalee [08:51] Perhaps Shep may need a moment to scroll upwards

Alexia Carnell [08:51] my religion is not represented

Shep Titian [08:51] Ok … No old business today so on to new business

Alexia Carnell [08:51] and a christian orthodox church
[08:51] and a benedictine abbey as well

Shep Titian [08:51] Budget .. have you all had a chance to read it?

Tanoujin Milestone [08:51] yes, I had.

Moonrise Azalee [08:52] Yes

Ranma Tardis [08:52] yes

Tanoujin Milestone [08:52] I move to ratify it

Ranma Tardis [08:52] second

Shep Titian [08:53] I think it’s all pretty clear .. I propose we ratify the chancellors budget withoput change

Callipygian Christensen [08:53] Callipygian Christensen riases her hand

Ranma Tardis [08:53] we have a motion on the floor

Shep Titian [08:53] Tan you have to allow for my slow typing

Ranma Tardis [08:54]
Tanoujin Milestone [08:54] but it is the same, i withdraw and second Shep’s

Shep Titian [08:54] THank you!
[08:54] Vote

Ranma Tardis [08:54] aye

Tanoujin Milestone [08:54] aye

Shep Titian [08:54] aye

Moonrise Azalee [08:54] aye

Widget Whiteberry [08:55] Widget Whiteberry when it’s appropriate, I have a comment about ‘respecting religions’

Shep Titian [08:55] Tor it’s ratified well done

Widget Whiteberry [08:55] And well done, Ranma, very well done

Callipygian Christensen [08:56] Callipygian Christensen waves her hand

Ranma Tardis [08:56]
Shep Titian [08:56] WE can ass that at the end Widget .. citizens concerns would have been the place
[08:56] Ok moving on ..

Callipygian Christensen [08:58] Callipygian Christensen coughs and waves again

Shep Titian [08:59] LA … the chancellor has asked me to propose RA direct the guild to redesign and carry out the works of redesigning LA .. there is a list of guidelines .. and the chjancellor wishes any design approved by RA before work begins

Fern Leissa [08:59] Fern Leissa raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:00] just for info: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4068

Shep Titian [09:00] Calli

Callipygian Christensen [09:00] thankyou Shep – this relates to the budget
[09:01] since you’ve ratified it without discussion, I request tht an item be added to the next RA agenda, authorizing 75,000 lindens to be used for advertising of the CDS, as discussed on the Forums with the support of Sudane and others
[09:02] This would be a special expenditure or whatever you want to call it. Done.

Shep Titian [09:02] Yes no problem
[09:03] It goes well with the redesign
[09:03] Fern

Fern Leissa [09:03] ty
[09:04] I believe it is the responsibility of the the ra to change themes/covenants for sims. Not the guild nor the chancellor
[09:04] Last time.. if I remember correctly the LRA appointed a committee to make recommendations to the ra

Tanoujin Milestone [09:05] Committe report after new business, Fern

Fern Leissa [09:05] Once the changes were voted on
[09:05] ok

Ranma Tardis [09:05] raises hand

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand

Shep Titian [09:06] That is a question I have for the SC .. whose remit is the land desgn?

Delia Lake [09:06] /raises her hand

Shep Titian [09:06] Ranma
[09:07] Cleo after Ran then Delia

Callipygian Christensen [09:07] land design falls to the guild or whomever is tasked to do so, after RA appproves any major change

Ranma Tardis [09:07] had thought Tor was part of the committee and this is their plan? is it?
[09:07] ty

Callipygian Christensen [09:07] The Chancellor cannot change a theme, RA does that, which is why Tor has brought this to RA I am guessing

Tor Karlsvalt [09:07] Raises hand.

Tanoujin Milestone [09:07] me raises hand

Shep Titian [09:07] Good thank you
[09:08] Cleo

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:08] I am curious… if fern is correct, If the chancellor steps out of bounds, what happens? then is it the matter of the SC , or does the RA empeach

Callipygian Christensen [09:08] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Shep Titian [09:08] Tan after Delia

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:08] done.. scratching head

Shep Titian [09:08] Calli after Tan

Delia Lake [09:09] following on what Calli said,

Shep Titian [09:10] Cleo .. with everyone watching him I’m sure he would’nt dare

Delia Lake [09:10] in the past proposals wer brought to the guild, the Guild made detailed plans and those were voted by the RA

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia winks at shep

Delia Lake [09:10] re sim design

Tor Karlsvalt [09:10] brb coffee

Shep Titian [09:10] Yes DElia he asks us to ok the design

Tor Karlsvalt [09:11] b

Delia Lake [09:11] that is because it is up to the Guild to decide if a design is technically doable

Shep Titian [09:11] Tan

Tanoujin Milestone [09:11] i withdraw

Shep Titian [09:11] Calli

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand again

Shep Titian [09:11] After Calli Cleo

Callipygian Christensen [09:12] I’ve expressed some concerns about the breadth of the timeframe and vaguenss of theme here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4068#p20615

Tor Karlsvalt [09:12] Tor Karlsvalt notes he raised his hand at 9:07:58

Callipygian Christensen [09:12] once again, sounding like a broken record, please consider Tuscany as a thme, or some other theme that allows simple, understandable and enforcable covenants – done

Shep Titian [09:12] Sorry Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [09:13] np
[09:13] Thanks

Shep Titian [09:13] Cleo please allow Tor as I missed him

Tor Karlsvalt [09:13] My plan is on the forum at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4068
[09:13] Calli and Alexia have also advanced plans there and to me personally.
[09:13] So has Candace
[09:14] my guidlines are not intended to be rigid.

Shep Titian [09:14] Well maybe they could be put out somewhere

Fern Leissa [09:14] Fern Leissa raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:14] It has always been my undersdtanding that the Guild is merely hired by the RA and that the RA mus approve any final plan for LA.
[09:14] done.

Shep Titian [09:15] Fern after Cleo

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:15] Is it appropriate to ask for a review of proper procedure before the L A project goes forward ? maybe a committee or what ever way makes sense to make sure the procedures are known understood and followed ?

Tanoujin Milestone [09:15] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand (for real)

Fern Leissa [09:15]
CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:15] we also have a new Citizen here just now, Carlo, who is new also to Locus
[09:15] welcome Carolo
[09:15] Carlo
[09:15] done

Carlo Islar [09:15] thank you ?

Fern Leissa [09:16] Welcome Carlo

Tor Karlsvalt [09:16] Welcome Carlo

Carlo Islar [09:16] ?

Moonrise Azalee [09:16] Hello and welcome Carlo

Shep Titian [09:16] Thank you Cleo .. I think what we are doing here goes to proper procveedure

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:16] Is it appropriate to ask for a review of proper procedure before the L A project goes forward ? maybe a committee or what ever way makes sense to make sure the procedures are known understood and followed ?
[09:16] done

Shep Titian [09:16] Fern

Soro Dagostino [09:17] Soro Dagostino raises hand

Shep Titian [09:17] Tan after Fern

Fern Leissa [09:17] Tan first maybe?

Tanoujin Milestone [09:17] okay—
[09:17] I wonder if we can place the discussion of the LA sim theme at the guild and adopt the rest of Tor’s proposal. And I would like to hear Calli’s opinion on this.

Shep Titian [09:17] Ok Tan

Tanoujin Milestone [09:18] done, thanks

Fern Leissa [09:18] kk…me next I think

Shep Titian [09:18] Fern

Fern Leissa [09:18] I want to say again that I think this is an ra matter not guild.. the ra must decide the theme

Shep Titian [09:18] Yes Fern I was aware

Rosie Gray [09:18] Rosie Gray raises hand

Shep Titian [09:19] Cleo

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:19] Is it appropriate to ask for a review of proper procedure before the L A project goes forward ? maybe a committee or what ever way makes sense to make sure the procedures are known understood and followed ?

Alexia Carnell [09:19] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Shep Titian [09:19] After Cleo Rosie

Soro Dagostino [09:19] Soro Dagostino raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:19] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.

Shep Titian [09:20] Sorry Soro I missed yopu
[09:20] Can you go after Rosie

Soro Dagostino [09:20] kk

Shep Titian [09:20] Rosie
[09:20] Then Soro then Tor

Rosie Gray [09:20] I agree that the RA needs to ratify the theme and covenant before the Guild starts to develop the propposal based on it
[09:20] done

Shep Titian [09:21] Soro

Alexia Carnell [09:21] Alexia Carnell raises hand again [09:19] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Soro Dagostino [09:21] I would provide a point of information. This procedure was reviewed in depth, to the point of a SC review Several terms ago.

Shep Titian [09:21] Sorry Alexia .. Tor I’m bumping you one

Tor Karlsvalt [09:22] np

Soro Dagostino [09:22] The Rules were changed to provide the RA approval of the suggestions of a NGO — the then Guild.

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia listens to soro

Tor Karlsvalt [09:22] I was going to yield if you didn’t

Shep Titian [09:22]
Soro Dagostino [09:23] Done

Shep Titian [09:23] Alexia

Alexia Carnell [09:23] I’m totally ignorant about procedures. But please dont stuck in procedures.
[09:23] One BASIC thing should be clear to whoever and all…
[09:23] Covenants .. themes.. “not rigid” what are we talking about? do we think that freedom of building is appealing for new citizens? it’s plenty of sandboxes out there.
[09:23] Do we want freedom of building or a high quality sim? please let’s focus on this point
[09:24] first
[09:24] I’m finished

Ranma Tardis [09:24] raises hand

Shep Titian [09:24] Thank you Alexia
[09:24] Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [09:24] Thanks
[09:24] I totally agree with Alexia

Shep Titian [09:24] Ran after Tor

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand

Delia Lake [09:24] hi josjoha

josjoha Resident#http://mbprofile:46d57f91-c823-4875-be4e-4bb2ba63e17d&josjoha Resident [09:25] heyyyy : )

Shep Titian [09:25] Cleo after Ran

Tor Karlsvalt [09:25] In that vein I would like to modify my proposal to make the theme Tuscany

Tanoujin Milestone [09:25] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Fern Leissa [09:25] Fern Leissa raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:25] I think however we should make the time period broad enfough to include ancient through about mid 20th century
[09:25] done

Moonrise Azalee [09:26] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Callipygian Christensen [09:26] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Delia Lake [09:26] Delia Lake raises her hand

Ranma Tardis [09:26] Okies my turn

Shep Titian [09:26] Ran

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:26] I think having a clearly written theme would be something that should be put on the forum and discussed before we go forward now with a vote.. just hoping

Tor Karlsvalt [09:26] Welcome Josjoha

Widget Whiteberry [09:26] Widget Whiteberry likes the idea of a broad time period

josjoha Resident#http://mbprofile:46d57f91-c823-4875-be4e-4bb2ba63e17d&josjoha Resident [09:26] ty Tor
[09:27] Bagheera Kristan is offline

Ranma Tardis [09:27] what people forget is the CDS is an exercise in representional democracy first and lsst. It was not intended to be a place of only high quality builds
[09:27] it was never intended to be a role playing set of sims.

Shep Titian [09:27] Tan then Fern Birch

Ranma Tardis [09:28] while quality is important we have let the cart drag the horse

Shep Titian [09:28] missed Cleo

Tanoujin Milestone [09:28] I was about to move we adopt Tor’s proposal but define the theme as “tuscany” with a time frame “post-Roman to the end of the 19th century (or pre-WWI)”. Does the time frame need more discussion? Dome

Ranma Tardis [09:28] the main theme is a place of citizen empowerment.

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia agrees with Tan.

Delia Lake [09:28] Delia Lake notes that Shep missed Delia too

Ranma Tardis [09:29] not the perfect theme in the only high quality builds

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand..

Shep Titian [09:29] Cleo
[09:29] then Birch

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia passes

Ranma Tardis [09:29] while standards are important democracy must rule the day

Fern Leissa [09:29] Fern Leissa raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:29] Tor Karlsvalt thinks Tan’s proposal is good.

Ranma Tardis [09:29] thank you\

Shep Titian [09:29] OK

Lilith Ivory [09:29] Lilith Ivory thinks so too

Shep Titian [09:30] Have a free for all
[09:30] NOTHING will get done

Alexia Carnell [09:30] Alexia Carnell wonders what “tuscany” means (knowing the RL region very well)

Tanoujin Milestone [09:30] any speakers? I will place the move when LRA calls me. Silent now

Shep Titian [09:31] I would like a voice myself

Fern Leissa [09:31] ?

Soro Dagostino [09:31] Sorry folk, like to stay, but RL calls.

Rosie Gray [09:31] Rosie Gray raises hand

Fern Leissa [09:31] Soro

Callipygian Christensen [09:31] Alexia – my original suggestion is here, along with links viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4062&p=20594#p20594

Shep Titian [09:31] We have done nothing for months but bemoan the state of LA
[09:31] WEe have HAD committees
[09:32] They hjave reported it needs changing

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand.. again

Shep Titian [09:32] Tor IS doing it the right way

Ranma Tardis [09:32] nods

Fern Leissa [09:32] Fern Leissa raises hand

Shep Titian [09:33] RA has to approver .. BUT Tor you can’t decide the theme .. RA does that
[09:33] Bagheera Kristan is online
[09:34] I honestly don’t thinkk any more ‘oh buts’ wioll do anythjing but delay us improving CDS
[09:34] so can we please ghet on with it .. we will NEVER please every single person .. but let us try

Tanoujin Milestone [09:35] 7me looks at her hand

Ranma Tardis [09:35] claps

Rosie Gray [09:35] Rosie Gray looks at her hand too

Shep Titian [09:35] Ok taking hands up from now

Tanoujin Milestone [09:35] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Shep Titian [09:35] Tan

Tanoujin Milestone [09:35] I move we adopt Tor’s proposal but define the theme as “tuscany” with a time frame “post-Roman to the end of the 19th century (or pre-WWI)”

Moonrise Azalee [09:35] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Fern Leissa [09:35] Fern Leissa raises hand

Rosie Gray [09:35] Rosie Gray keeps her hand raised

Shep Titian [09:35] I second
[09:36] o no wait ..

Tanoujin Milestone [09:36] [09:37] fine, withdrawing a third time today – improve it… let us have a result

Shep Titian [09:37] Lets get this done right .. I propose we the RA instruct the Guild to make plans to redesign LA in a Tuscan themne .. and to do the woprk once the design is approved by RA

Ranma Tardis [09:38] second

Moonrise Azalee [09:38] i second

Tanoujin Milestone [09:38] time frame, Shep?

Moonrise Azalee [09:38] Moonrise Azalee grins

Fern Leissa [09:38] Fern Leissa pulls hair out and raises hand

Shep Titian [09:38] ASAP

Tanoujin Milestone [09:38] of the theme

Shep Titian [09:38] one minute FErn

Ranma Tardis [09:38] point of order we have a motion on the floor

Shep Titian [09:38] Vote

Ranma Tardis [09:38] aye

Shep Titian [09:38] Aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:39] aye

Tanoujin Milestone [09:39] aye

Carlo Islar [09:39] stands from voting

Ranma Tardis [09:39] claps

Lilith Ivory [09:39] yay!

Rosie Gray [09:39]
Tanoujin Milestone [09:39] no timeframe, we will regret that

Shep Titian [09:39] Tor! exxciting times ahead !!!!!

Ranma Tardis [09:39] do not think so

Shep Titian [09:39] Fern

Callipygian Christensen [09:40] point of order..is that vote on Tan’s motion, ? (Shep’s comments being a second motion to follow?

Fern Leissa [09:40] You still need to write something out. The specifics of the covenant need to go in the About Land tab. I believe that is the ra’s job.

Tanoujin Milestone [09:40] I withdrew the motion

Rosie Gray [09:40] Rosie Gray agrees with Fern

Fern Leissa [09:40] If it’s not clear… then this debate will just continue to give us headaches

Tor Karlsvalt [09:41] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Ranma Tardis [09:41] raises hand

Rosie Gray [09:41] Rosie Gray keeps hand raised

Fern Leissa [09:41] done

Shep Titian [09:41] Rosie

Rosie Gray [09:41] thank you Shep

Callipygian Christensen [09:41] Callipygian Christensen s

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] Moonrise Azalee withdraws hand

Rosie Gray [09:41] I really think that the RA needs to set specifics for the covenants
[09:41] including the time frame
[09:41] and building materials
[09:41] allowable
[09:42] but perhaps right now is not the appropriate time to work those out

Delia Lake [09:42] Delia Lake raises her most invisible hand

Lilith Ivory [09:42] Lilith Ivory raises hand

Delia Lake [09:42] again

Shep Titian [09:42] DElia then CAlli

Rosie Gray [09:42] but I think that a committee could report back next RA meeting with specifics
[09:43] otherwise, I agree with what others have said, that we are leaving things too vague again
[09:43] and, specifically in regards to Tuscany

Shep Titian [09:43] The word committe is so damn depressing

Delia Lake [09:43] covenants and redesign need to fit together. developing 1 without consideration of the other would be a big mistake imo, and make each much more difficult

Tor Karlsvalt [09:43]
Rosie Gray [09:43] I’d like to also have that clarified a bit more

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:43] here here Delia

Tor Karlsvalt [09:43] Tor Karlsvalt remembers raising his hand.

Rosie Gray [09:44] so that the guild can get down to a hard proposal on development and not have to worry about the covenants being too vague
[09:44] done.

Shep Titian [09:44] Calli then Tor

Callipygian Christensen [09:44] I request that Tanoujin make a motion to add the timeframe back in, and that while the guild is working on a design,someone be tasked with drafting appropriate covenants
[09:45] If the design and covenants can be brought to RA together, after discussion on the Forums, we can actually get something done
[09:45] finished

Tanoujin Milestone [09:45] okay with me, a moment please… Shep, do you have objections?

Shep Titian [09:46] My personal view on Covenants is you find a design that people might want to live in and work the covenants to fit the design
[09:46] No go ahead

Tor Karlsvalt [09:46] Thanks Callie/shep, I agree with Delia and Rosie.
[09:46] me or Tan?

Tanoujin Milestone [09:46] Suggestion to be discussed: “I propose we the RA instruct the Guild to make plans to redesign LA in a Tuscan theme with a time frame “post-Roman to the end of the 19th century (or pre-WWI)”, and to draft a covenant fitting to that theme .. and to do the woprk once the design is approved by RA. ”

Shep Titian [09:47] Tor speak

Tor Karlsvalt [09:47] Ok thanks

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia wonders if a castle would fit pre WWI theme

Shep Titian [09:47] I second
[09:48] hahahahahahahahaha

Rosie Gray [09:48] Rosie Gray wonders why the starting point is post-Roman

Alexia Carnell [09:48] i dont understand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:48] This suggestion would work. I was going to point out that earlier Delia thought She and I could work together on covenants. Or the RA could have a commission. Or the Guild could probably have a committee.

Shep Titian [09:48] OH dear ..

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:48] 1914?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:48] We could do any of those routes.

Alexia Carnell [09:49] iah uh i suppose i have to remove the Time Machine

Tanoujin Milestone [09:49] Tanoujin Milestone is getting a headache

Ranma Tardis [09:49] move we table the vote

Tor Karlsvalt [09:49] I think the time machine could stay imo
[09:49] done

Shep Titian [09:49] Just chage the exterior textures Alexia

Alexia Carnell [09:49] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Callipygian Christensen [09:49] to tie-in with CN and not lose the original history of LA completely

Tor Karlsvalt [09:50] Tor Karlsvalt notes that ancient might be a better term than post-roman

Bagheera Kristan [09:50] oh this is bad *Bagheera mutters under her breath*

Tanoujin Milestone [09:50] i second Ranma’s move to table the motion

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:50] really bad.

Shep Titian [09:50] VBote
[09:50] Vote

Tanoujin Milestone [09:50] aye

Ranma Tardis [09:50] aye

Shep Titian [09:50] Aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:50] aye

Shep Titian [09:51] Passed

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:51] they had skyscrapers then alexia !

Shep Titian [09:51] Can we all treat this as fun

Tanoujin Milestone [09:51] the motion to table the motion has passed?

Moonrise Azalee [09:51] it would appear

Ranma Tardis [09:51] lets move to the last point of business

Tanoujin Milestone [09:51] fine

Rosie Gray [09:51] Rosie Gray is confused

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:51] 12 story buildings in 1914 in tuscany

Shep Titian [09:52] Cleo you are being silly

Tor Karlsvalt [09:52] Tor Karlsvalt is sure that we can keep a height limit on builds.

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:52] C just looked it up
[09:52] did the RA research what they just voted on ?

Shep Titian [09:52] RA has final say

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:52] great !

Shep Titian [09:52] you think we’d allow that?

Moonrise Azalee [09:52] i think we voted to table the motion
[09:53] Moonrise Azalee is confused

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:53] 1914 had huge factories too

Callipygian Christensen [09:53] Cleo..you might have commented on the Forums when this was all posted a week ago- as could any citizen concerned that the suggestions were not appropriate.

Tanoujin Milestone [09:53] Tanoujin Milestone raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:53] Tor Karlsvalt very true

josjoha Resident#http://mbprofile:46d57f91-c823-4875-be4e-4bb2ba63e17d&josjoha Resident [09:53] concurs with Cleo; industrial revolution was roaring a long time by 1914

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:53] sorry Calli i was otherwise occupied .. seems the RA who voted should have researched what they voted on

Tor Karlsvalt [09:53] Tor Karlsvalt sits on his hands.

Ranma Tardis [09:54] Madame LRA can we move to the next item?

Callipygian Christensen [09:54] And covenants can specify no factories, no skyscrapers..so I htink it a moot point.

Ceasar Xigalia [09:54] Ceasar Xigalia rolls on the floor laughing

Tor Karlsvalt [09:55] Tor Karlsvalt notes we are going on two hours.

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:55] you could allow things based on who builds them instead, thats easier.

Moonrise Azalee [09:55]
Shep Titian [09:55] Ok lets move on

Moonrise Azalee [09:55] Moonrise Azalee coughs.. i think this can all be dealt with

Tanoujin Milestone [09:55] okay

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [09:56] you said make it fun, shep

Ceasar Xigalia [09:56] Ceasar Xigalia now hurts from laughing

Shep Titian [09:56] OK the chancellor proposes an increasre in tier .. Tor would you like to speak?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:56] Sure

Shep Titian [09:56] Not ful Ceasar

Tor Karlsvalt [09:56] The proposal has been on the forums for some time.

Carlo Islar [09:57] raises hand

Shep Titian [09:57] Carlo

Tor Karlsvalt [09:57] As has been reported we have been running deficits for the last three terms.

Callipygian Christensen [09:57] Callipygian Christensen ha s RL commitments..good day everyone!

Carlo Islar [09:57] i wa amazed how cheap it is here
[09:57] considdering the nature of the sims

Shep Titian [09:57] Calli

Moonrise Azalee [09:57] Calli!

Carlo Islar [09:57] done

Moonrise Azalee [09:57]
Delia Lake [09:57] Delia Lake raises her hand

Shep Titian [09:58] Thank you Carlo

Tor Karlsvalt [09:58] The proposed increase is 0.0325 per prim for all sims but Monaster, which is currently higher than other sims.
[09:58] There is an interactive version of the proposal that all can use to see how different rates affect our balance sheet.

Widget Whiteberry [09:59] Widget Whiteberry listens

Tor Karlsvalt [09:59] Although there are reasons to oppose an increase, I do not subscribe to merely living off the treasure built up by past residents. That seem a bad habit to get into.
[10:00] I must state that we have a large reserve, over 9K
[10:00] we are not in any danger of folding.
[10:00] But we can use our resever for sim expansion or advancement not current living expenses.
[10:01] done

Moonrise Azalee [10:01] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Shep Titian [10:01] Birch

Tor Karlsvalt [10:02] sorry here is the link to the proposed tier.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … lSEE#gid=0

Delia Lake [10:02] Delia Lake looks closely at her hand and wonders how come she can see it but no one else can

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia sees it

Moonrise Azalee [10:02] I’ll just say i have read this at length in the forums and am opposed to a tier increase. I do not think that this encourages new residents. As for Sim expansion… i REALLY dont even want to think about that until well after we get LA dealt with.
[10:02] done

Shep Titian [10:03] Thank you
[10:03] O silence

Moonrise Azalee [10:03] Moonrise Azalee hears crickets…. sweet silence

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hers too

Ranma Tardis [10:04] moves we approve Tors proposal to raise tier

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:04] we can readjust every term to meet our needs for teir, maybe that motivates us to go get new citizens interested and be nice to them . im ok to make the budget balanced .. it would be lower teir if we have more citizens

Tanoujin Milestone [10:04] second

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:04] [10:04] sorry

Shep Titian [10:05] My own view is the reserves were built up to cover just such a situation we find ourselves in .. and I think we should use a bit for advertising as previously suggested by Calli

Delia Lake [10:05] Delia Lake raises her hand and waves it around

Ranma Tardis [10:05] we have a motion on the floor

Shep Titian [10:05] I agree with Birch that increasing tier when other regions are giving some bargains is the wrong message
[10:06] Delia

Moonrise Azalee [10:06] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:06] make it temporary til we balance the budget.

Delia Lake [10:06] I also am opposed to raising tier at this time

Rosie Gray [10:06] Rosie Gray agrees with Birch and Delia

Delia Lake [10:07] I do not see right now when we are working on a redesign of LA, and are bringing in new residents that raising tier will have a positive affect, and likely just the opposite

Shep Titian [10:07] NBirch

Moonrise Azalee [10:07] Moonrise Azalee waits to see when Delia is done

Delia Lake [10:07] I agree with Shep that we need to spend some on advertizing, and I would also add to spend on events that draw new people to the sims

Ranma Tardis [10:08] point of order we have a motion on the floor

Tanoujin Milestone [10:08] and it was seconded

Shep Titian [10:08] Hear hear Delia .. the event the other night was a good example

Delia Lake [10:08] we cannot just be a place that people log into as home. we need to spend our efforts, and yes some money, cultivating a lively place to be

Rosie Gray [10:09] Rosie Gray nods

Moonrise Azalee [10:09] Moonrise Azalee nods

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia nods

Tanoujin Milestone [10:09] [10:04] Ranma Tardis: moves we approve Tors proposal to raise tier

Ranma Tardis [10:09] Tan seconded

Tanoujin Milestone [10:09] [10:04] Tanoujin Milestone: second

Moonrise Azalee [10:10] my comment can wait until after the vote

Shep Titian [10:10] Vote
[10:10] Nay

Tanoujin Milestone [10:10] aye

Moonrise Azalee [10:10] Nay

Ranma Tardis [10:10] aye

Shep Titian [10:10] Not carried

Ranma Tardis [10:10] tie

Shep Titian [10:10] Sorry Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [10:10] Tor Karlsvalt do we have a seven day vote or Nolli?

Tanoujin Milestone [10:11] Did Nolligan ask for a 7 day vote?

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia weeps
[10:11] ))
[10:11] let nolli vote

Ranma Tardis [10:11] yes it is up to him

Shep Titian [10:11] No he did’nt

Tor Karlsvalt [10:11] np

Shep Titian [10:11] No he did’nt

Ranma Tardis [10:11] well it has to go to the sc

Shep Titian [10:11] Why Tan?

Tanoujin Milestone [10:12] i did not state that

Tor Karlsvalt [10:12] I think a tie fails, unless there is a 7 day vote from Nolli

Rosie Gray [10:12] all… RL calling

Ranma Tardis [10:12] a tie vote is not a loss

Tor Karlsvalt [10:12] by Rosie

Moonrise Azalee [10:12] Rosie

Delia Lake [10:12] ?? a tie doesn’t pass

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:12] up to Nolligan Delia, IM him and tell him your wishes everyone

josjoha Resident#http://mbprofile:46d57f91-c823-4875-be4e-4bb2ba63e17d&josjoha Resident [10:12] Rosie

Fern Leissa [10:13] Rosie

Shep Titian [10:13] It is a loss because it was’nt carried

Lilith Ivory [10:13] as Noli is on vacation and depends on an iphone he might have unexpected problems to log in

Moonrise Azalee [10:13] he did not ask for a 7 day vote

Shep Titian [10:13] He did not ask .. I spoke to him on Wednesday he was fine then

Lilith Ivory [10:13] when I talked to him last he wanted to come to the meeting

Ranma Tardis [10:14] the science council has to rule

Shep Titian [10:14] He was .. last I heard .. against increase

Delia Lake [10:14] I am late to return to rl duties. will stay inworld to catch the rest of the chat but will not really be here

Moonrise Azalee [10:14] Why does SC have to rule?

Shep Titian [10:14] Yes he did

Lilith Ivory [10:14] why not just grant him a 7day vote

Fern Leissa [10:14] Delia

Ranma Tardis [10:14] because a tie is not a win or loss

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:14] why not vote next meeting ?

Shep Titian [10:14] BUT there is no 7 day

Tor Karlsvalt [10:15] The issue is still out there. We could motion that it be considered next meeting?

Moonrise Azalee [10:15] exactly. no 7 day or HECK i culd have been voting on lots of stuff for all the meetings i missed,

Delia Lake [10:15] fyi, the SC does not rule on tie votes of the RA

Tor Karlsvalt [10:15] Yes I agree with Cleo

Lilith Ivory [10:15] you could have indeed Birch

Moonrise Azalee [10:15] but i had assumed
[10:15] unless i asked for a 7 day
[10:15] there was no vote for me

Tor Karlsvalt [10:15] 7 day votes are in the rules

Tanoujin Milestone [10:16] we discussed that last time with Callli. Let us look it up, RA procedures.

Ranma Tardis [10:16] usually the Chancellor votes to break a tie

Moonrise Azalee [10:16] Moonrise Azalee is tired

Lilith Ivory [10:16] this is quite new to me Ranma

Ranma Tardis [10:16] nods

Lilith Ivory [10:17] but I used to grant 7day votes if a member could not come due to unexpected problems

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:17] at Ranma !

Shep Titian [10:17] Ok we’ll give Nolli a 7 day ..

Tor Karlsvalt [10:17] I would rather have the issue tabled for next meeting or a 7 day vote for Nolli rather than arguments before the SC.

Moonrise Azalee [10:18] Moonrise Azalee hopes to heck he isnt harassed by people wanting things one way or another

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:18] up to shep tor.

Tor Karlsvalt [10:18] haha
[10:18] sure

Ranma Tardis [10:18] we need to clean up the consitution in event of tie votes

Moonrise Azalee [10:18] what is the rule for tie votes then?

Tanoujin Milestone [10:19] a tie does not carry, like – who moves first loses

Lilith Ivory [10:19] that´s why we have an unequal number of RA members and 7 day votes

Tanoujin Milestone [10:19] From Procedures (Portal) 7-day vote

Any member who is absent from a meeting can request a 7-day vote if they tell the LRA before the meeting.

Shep Titian [10:20] Its not a tie though .. you two are 40% of the RA .. not enough to carry

Moonrise Azalee [10:20] Moonrise Azalee nods

Tanoujin Milestone [10:20] i am not arguing against you Shep, this might be surprising within CDS but it is a fact

Moonrise Azalee [10:20] Moonrise Azalee grins

Ranma Tardis [10:21] still we need a provision in the contitution

Delia Lake [10:21] there is nothing in this to bring before the SC. The RA sets its own policies and procedures. unless the RA does something that abridges the rights of citizens or does something in conflict with the constitution, it is not an affair of the SC–and cannot be

Ranma Tardis [10:21] consitution

Tanoujin Milestone [10:21] Ranma, we should have waited until they move

Delia Lake [10:21] that is very clear

Tanoujin Milestone [10:21] we have defeated ourselves,

Moonrise Azalee [10:21] Moonrise Azalee s
[10:21] we represent the people
[10:21] not just ourselves

Ranma Tardis [10:22] yes

Shep Titian [10:22] He did’nt tell me he would’nt be here .. BUT I also know he’s only on his phone thios week .. so if I’m allowed I will give him a 7 day vote
[10:22] So we can finish this meeting

Ranma Tardis [10:22] nods

Tanoujin Milestone [10:22] this would be very much appreciated, Shep

Delia Lake [10:22] Delia Lake is no longer consciously in sl

Ranma Tardis [10:22] yes!

Tor Karlsvalt [10:23] sorry back, had a phone call

Shep Titian [10:23] Ok Tor do you have any exec report to give
[10:23] Please say no

Tor Karlsvalt [10:23] thanks

Shep Titian [10:23]
Tor Karlsvalt [10:23] No,

Tanoujin Milestone [10:23] (Committee report, Shep)

Moonrise Azalee [10:23] Moonrise Azalee laughs

Tor Karlsvalt [10:23] haah

Shep Titian [10:23] hehehehe

Tor Karlsvalt [10:23]
Tanoujin Milestone [10:24] I have a report to make

Shep Titian [10:24] Yes Tan .. Fairground Committee report?

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand !

Tanoujin Milestone [10:24] Committee Report:

The committee met on 2013-07-27. It stated there was no need to have a fairground. The executive should go on to direct temporary events to empty unsold parcels and public land as the Marktplatz, Schloss, the Docks, the Amphitheatre and LA harbor. The Amphitheatre parcel should not be used for fairs, the committee prefers the use of private unsold land here. The guild offers assistance and quality assurance for setting up temporary events out of covenant run by citizens.

Summary: the Committee recommends to drop the topic and keep the established executive routines to handle events.

Sidenotes: the Committee recommends to order the guild to redesign the Amphitheatre. Further it recommends to rewrite the Locus Amoenus covenant to cover rules for events and a change of the sim theme as already discussed. I move to make both items new business

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4066&p=20631#p20631

Shep Titian [10:24] Cleo

Tor Karlsvalt [10:24] Tor Karlsvalt thinks we did rather well considering the issues.

Tanoujin Milestone [10:24] done

Shep Titian [10:25] Ok next meeting
[10:26] Now with projects underway I suggest twop weeks?

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:26] i had something to say about fairground
[10:26]
Shep Titian [10:26] Sorry Cleo

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:26] its ok

Shep Titian [10:26] Go ahead

Moonrise Azalee [10:26] August 17th

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:27] ill save it, its about events

Shep Titian [10:27] Ok thank you

Moonrise Azalee [10:28] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Shep Titian [10:28] Yes Birch August 17th is 8 am ok again?

Moonrise Azalee [10:29] yes… and just wanted to say.. like.. we reprsent the people. what is good for everyone.. right? And i think we need to keep that in mind. Not just what is good for you, or me or whoever but for the general good of all.. its not a win/lose between us. it is honestly trying to consider what will make this place a more desirable place to live, work and play. Done

Ranma Tardis [10:29] motion we adjourn until 17th Aug at 8am sl

Tanoujin Milestone [10:29] second

Ceasar Xigalia [10:30] Ceasar Xigalia claps for Birch

Tanoujin Milestone [10:31] Yes, Birch, I agree. Do you think I am putting forward my personal agenda?

Moonrise Azalee [10:31] no, i think we all do

Shep Titian [10:31] Thank you Birch .. I agree completely

Ranma Tardis [10:31] how does this profit me?

Moonrise Azalee [10:31] while forgetting about trying to make this place a place people want to BE

Shep Titian [10:31] Vote to adjorn

Tanoujin Milestone [10:31] aye

Ranma Tardis [10:31] aye

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:31] here here birch !

Moonrise Azalee [10:31] aye

Shep Titian [10:31] Aye

CLEOPATRA Xigalia [10:31] they are here for people not builds

Ranma Tardis [10:32] oh thank you!

Shep Titian [10:32] Yes Cleo but its both

Moonrise Azalee [10:32] all people have different reasons. some for the look of a place, some for the community.. and we cant please all.. but its not like us against them
[10:32] its us for the people

Tanoujin Milestone [10:32] It is true what you say, Birch. But sometimes we need a majority decision

Permalink.

RA Meeting 31 August 2013

31 August 2013 RA Meeting Transcript
by Bagheera » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:32 am
[08:19:07] Shep (shep.titian): OK .. Welcome all ..
[08:19:19] Birch (moonrise.azalee) waves
[08:19:21] Shep (shep.titian): Calling this meeting to order
[08:20:23] Shep (shep.titian): OIf we could glance through the agenda and approve
[08:21:01] Ranma Tardis: move we accept the agenda
[08:21:01] Shep (shep.titian): For those new to my aquaintance .. I apologise for typos
[08:21:31] Birch (moonrise.azalee): second
[08:21:46] Shep (shep.titian): Vote aye
[08:21:48] Ranma Tardis: aye
[08:21:50] Birch (moonrise.azalee): aye
[08:22:40] Shep (shep.titian): Do we have anyone with specific reason for speaking today?
[08:23:00] Shep (shep.titian): Tor I assume a report?
[08:23:18] Tor Karlsvalt: oh sure. A short one.
[08:23:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Now?
[08:23:46] Shep (shep.titian): No was waiting for agreement lol
[08:24:03] Shep (shep.titian): Moving on
[08:24:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Sure, I can give you a report.
[08:24:18] Shep (shep.titian): CVitizens concerns
[08:24:43] Shep (shep.titian): Ok no concerns
[08:24:52] Rosie Gray: ?
[08:25:03] Shep (shep.titian): RA .. any concerns?
[08:25:20] Ranma Tardis: not this meeting
[08:25:26] Birch (moonrise.azalee): not today
[08:25:33] Rosie Gray raises hand
[08:25:33] Shep (shep.titian): Excellent
[08:25:44] Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. next
[08:25:51] Shep (shep.titian): Old business
[08:26:21] Delia Lake: yes if tier increase is in the agenda. have concerns
[08:26:45] Soro Dagostino: As do I.
[08:26:58] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[08:27:29] Shep (shep.titian): All I have here is a confirmation that despite allowing Nolligan a 7 day vote .. the increase in tier remained defeated as Nolligan did’nt vote .. leaving a majority impossible
[08:27:52] Shep (shep.titian): Ranma first
[08:28:15] Rosie Gray whispers: hi Widget
[08:28:19] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Widget
[08:28:23] Ranma Tardis: correct me if I am wrong it was defeated and the supporters accept the outcome
[08:28:26] Widget Whiteberry: shhhh, sorry I’m late
[08:28:46] Lilith Ivory: Hi Widget
[08:28:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Widget
[08:29:23] Shep (shep.titian): The last we were officially qorate You and Tan persuaded me to allow Nolligan a 7 day vote
[08:29:48] Shep (shep.titian): This is the first official meeting to report on it
[08:29:57] Ranma Tardis: nods
[08:30:20] Shep (shep.titian): Cool
[08:30:51] Shep (shep.titian): from the floor Delia?
[08:31:28] Delia Lake: if it remains defeated im fine
[08:32:53] Shep (shep.titian): )) yes it does .. I was just making sure the defeat was official
[08:33:03] Shep (shep.titian): Soro?
[08:33:11] Rosie Gray: ··•°•··..? Applauds! ? ..··•°•··..
[08:33:21] Birch (moonrise.azalee) grins
[08:33:31] Soro Dagostino: I am of the same opinion as Delisa
[08:33:35] Shep (shep.titian): LOL thank you Rosie
[08:33:39] Soro Dagostino: Delia*
[08:33:46] Rosie Gray:
[08:35:03] Shep (shep.titian): I can’t see Soro typing So Rosie
[08:35:12] Shep (shep.titian): yopu raised a hand
[08:35:49] Rosie Gray: oh sorry raised my hand earlier because I thought of a citizen concern
[08:36:04] Rosie Gray: am I too late?
[08:36:13] Shep (shep.titian): Oh I’m sorry I missed that
[08:36:31] Rosie Gray: well I was a bit late
[08:36:37] Rosie Gray: may I speak to it now?
[08:36:39] Shep (shep.titian): No I’ll allow as this seems finished
[08:36:50] Rosie Gray: okay thanks
[08:37:17] Rosie Gray: I ‘ve noticed that there seems to be a few citizens leaving boxes of stuff for sale
[08:37:27] Rosie Gray: floating around outside of buildings
[08:37:58] Rosie Gray: which isn’t appropriate, so would like a notice sent to them about it
[08:38:42] Shep (shep.titian): Maybe a Land Manager could send a note asking for them to be taken indoors
[08:38:43] Rosie Gray: that’s about it
[08:39:19] Rosie Gray: I thought perhaps it could be reiterated by RA that it is against covenants
[08:40:02] Shep (shep.titian): I think an Estate Manager .. then they can move them if we have people who won’t move them
[08:40:18] Rosie Gray: and I’m not referring to signs that are meant to be there… just either being careless with prims, or deliberately leaving them there
[08:40:31] Noma Falta is offline.
[08:40:39] Pip Torok writes himself a reminder not to leave opened boxes hanging round outside
[08:40:58] Rosie Gray: yes, an estate manager can send them back… just thought an official notice as a reminder would be a good idea
[08:41:24] Rosie Gray: I’m trying not to name a name here
[08:41:29] Birch (moonrise.azalee): boxes for sale are different than just boxes of stuff accidentally left
[08:41:35] Rosie Gray: but there is one person doing this deligberately
[08:41:37] Shep (shep.titian): There has been a gheneral state of people pushing boxes .. sorry … and we need a general tidy up
[08:41:40] Birch (moonrise.azalee): ((eek — sorry for speaking out of turn))
[08:41:58] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[08:42:04] Rosie Gray: done
[08:42:35] Shep (shep.titian): Ran
[08:43:02] Shep (shep.titian): I hear the name Rosie lol
[08:43:13] Ranma Tardis: correct me if I am wrong, that is an executive function not in the RA lane
[08:44:43] Shep (shep.titian): It is mostly Ran .. but RA makes the laws .. so I think we can join in
[08:44:43] Ranma Tardis: done
[08:44:49] Callipygian Christensen: oops
[08:45:00] Shep (shep.titian): Calli?
[08:45:38] Callipygian Christensen: I managed to TP myself across the sim..noting related to the meeting lol
[08:45:52] Birch (moonrise.azalee) grins
[08:46:24] Shep (shep.titian): hahahahahaha
[08:46:55] Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on … New business
[08:46:55] Callipygian Christensen: however, if we are on exec and land stuff a moment, can we ask for a clarification of whether setting land to only allow people with payment info on file is within covenants or not?
[08:47:12] Callipygian Christensen: (sorry, Rosie and the boxes jogged my memory)
[08:47:52] Aliasi Stonebender: That’s a good question, although it depends on why it’s being set that way, I’d imagine.
[08:48:27] Shep (shep.titian): Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I would personally have to look that up .. but that is the only way to pay I believe
[08:48:57] Aliasi Stonebender: Well, no, you can pay with pure linden to the boxes. GETTING linden might be difficult but the trick is possible, i.e. third-party L$ sellers.
[08:48:57] Lilith Ivory: I confess I set a a few group owned parcels this way to deal with some griefers and didn´t think about changing it back to normal (have to change that soon)
[08:48:58] Tor Karlsvalt: It might be a problem for events.
[08:49:07] Callipygian Christensen: traditonally that is a setting to avoid griefers – but there are other ways to deal with them and the payment info thing seems to fall toward the ‘ban lines’ side of things
[08:49:28] Shep (shep.titian): I know you can’t pay someone elses hippo .. I tried and it refunds you
[08:49:40] Metafictioner:
[08:49:57] Aliasi Stonebender: yes, but it’s not like they can’t hand you the money and you pay, as it were.
[08:50:40] Ranma Tardis: griefing? will someone please pay my meter in Caledon for 8 weeks
[08:50:44] Shep (shep.titian): Yes but the idea is to keep alts from being citizens
[08:50:56] Callipygian Christensen: I am confused – did I miss something that moved us on to hippo boxes?
[08:51:06] Lilith Ivory: I think it´s an interesting question anyway which settings on private land are allowed and which are not
[08:51:31] Aliasi Stonebender: Just the main reason I could see to worry about that setting is ‘it might fall across the ‘general ban line’ prohibition’.
[08:51:31] Lilith Ivory: as we got a few new setting options lately
[08:51:32] Birch (moonrise.azalee): i dont think i have payment info on file
[08:51:54] Tor Karlsvalt: The covenants do require public access.
[08:52:00] Shep (shep.titian): Yes you do
[08:52:02] Callipygian Christensen: my original question was ‘is setting your land/store to only allow people with payment info on file with LL the same as bn lines, which are not permitted
[08:52:38] Shep (shep.titian): Oh sorry .. my mind went alt!!
[08:53:11] Rosie Gray: no doubt it did!
[08:53:15] Shep (shep.titian): Yes thats like saying I only want people with money
[08:54:04] Lilith Ivory: but what about the setting that only age vertified people are allowed on a parcel?
[08:54:32] Birch (moonrise.azalee): i took payment info off my file for a while due to issues i was having with Paypal. For many months
[08:54:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I think on setting begets another.
[08:54:59] Shep (shep.titian): Ok we don’t have the answer her at this time
[08:55:18] Shep (shep.titian): Can we move on
[08:55:23] Aliasi Stonebender: I’m pretty sure any banline that isn’t a specific user would fall prey to that, but that might be a question for the full SC.
[08:55:32] Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll try to remember to bring it up, next meeting.
[08:55:49] Shep (shep.titian): I’m happy to agenda it
[08:56:22] Shep (shep.titian): Ok new business
[08:58:32] Tor Karlsvalt gets coffee
[08:59:09] Shep (shep.titian): I thought it wise to state in a meeting that the covenants that have been in force in LA remain in force until the rebuild happens .. in the meantime there were a number pof people happy to work on the new ones .. Fern being one … and Rosie I wondered if the guild wanted to form a committee to work them out?
[08:59:51] Ranma Tardis: nods
[08:59:53] Rosie Gray: we could do that, if the RA requests
[09:00:35] Shep (shep.titian): Ok … no squeeking lol
[09:01:18] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[09:01:32] Shep (shep.titian): I propose we ask the Guild to form a committee to work out the new covenants for LA
[09:01:38] Ranma Tardis: second
[09:01:47] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[09:02:34] Callipygian Christensen waits since Ranma has seconded to treat the proposal as a motion?
[09:02:47] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
[09:02:50] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[09:02:52] Ranma Tardis: lets vote aye
[09:02:54] Shep (shep.titian): Aye
[09:03:03] Birch (moonrise.azalee): Aye
[09:03:35] Shep (shep.titian): Good Rosie could we ask you to set that in motion ?
[09:03:44] Rosie Gray: yes
[09:03:49] Rosie Gray: ?
[09:03:51] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
[09:03:55] Shep (shep.titian): Calli?
[09:04:41] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you. I drafted a concept map for the LA sim terraform and dropped it to those who have been aactive in the discusssion/planning – it is also on dispaly at the schoolhouse in NFS if people want to look
[09:04:54] Callipygian Christensen: done
[09:05:11] Rosie Gray *raises hand*
[09:05:36] Shep (shep.titian): And I will add that I like it very much and am sure Alexia will be happy
[09:05:48] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[09:05:56] Birch (moonrise.azalee) makes mental note to self to go take a look
[09:06:17] Pip Torok does the same
[09:06:19] Rosie Gray: yes just wanted to encourage anyone else who has a vision for the sim to also create a map drawing, and we can put it with the other two ideas.
[09:06:44] Rosie Gray: and echo that I like Calli’s too
[09:06:47] Rosie Gray: done
[09:07:23] Tor Karlsvalt likes Callie’s also.
[09:08:02] Shep (shep.titian): Seems we have a secret town developer amongst us
[09:08:18] Rosie Gray: poor Delia
[09:08:40] Callipygian Christensen: phhht..it’s a strating point but thank you for your comments everyone
[09:08:49] Shep (shep.titian): Tie her to her seat
[09:09:18] Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on …
[09:09:51] Shep (shep.titian): 75k needed to advertise CDS on the grid
[09:10:30] Shep (shep.titian): I expected a slough of hands
[09:10:40] Tor Karlsvalt:
[09:10:43] Pip Torok raises hand
[09:12:11] Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. I propose we allow a sum of 75,000 be released to the executive .. for the reason of advertising and promoting the CDS around the grid
[09:12:24] Ranma Tardis: second
[09:12:43] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[09:12:47] Ranma Tardis: aye
[09:12:47] Shep (shep.titian): Aye
[09:13:07] Birch (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
[09:13:30] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Birch
[09:13:35] Birch (moonrise.azalee) grins
[09:13:44] Birch (moonrise.azalee): give me a quick sec
[09:13:53] Callipygian Christensen: umm..Pip raised his hand back there?
[09:14:08] Pip Torok: imo a wise expenditure of 75000 will concentrate on 1. democracy its principles and virtues ..2, the community at present her and 3. the looknfeel of our sims .. done
[09:14:10] Shep (shep.titian): Pip
[09:14:34] Rosie Gray:
[09:15:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Well, always fun to have money to spend. I may need suggestions as to ad content and help creating ads.
[09:15:11] Birch (moonrise.azalee) nods…
[09:15:12] Birch (moonrise.azalee): Aye
[09:15:23] Shep (shep.titian): Ok passed
[09:16:22] Shep (shep.titian): We’ll have the treasurer arrange the funds Tor
[09:16:34] Tor Karlsvalt:
[09:16:39] Ranma Tardis: grins
[09:16:56] Widget Whiteberry would like to see a forum thread dedicated to ideas for promoting CDS
[09:17:01] Tor Karlsvalt hears the long sealed lock box creek open.
[09:17:12] Rosie Gray giggles
[09:17:23] Widget Whiteberry: hmmm, hears water from the creek
[09:17:46] Widget Whiteberry: soggy lindens?
[09:17:47] Shep (shep.titian): Is that a bat!! :O
[09:18:05] Tor Karlsvalt: damn I thought I caught them all.
[09:18:32] Shep (shep.titian): lol
[09:19:00] Shep (shep.titian): I have a fill in proposal
[09:20:41] Shep (shep.titian): I propose the RA employ the Guild to remake the amphitheatre and develop the parcel to facsilitate thelarger fairground rides we occasionally use
[09:21:15] Widget Whiteberry: I need to take care of something. Please excuse me.
[09:21:30] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.
[09:21:36] Ranma Tardis: second
[09:21:55] Shep (shep.titian): Vote Aye
[09:22:11] Ranma Tardis: aye
[09:22:27] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand on a point of order
[09:23:03] Shep (shep.titian): Caslli
[09:24:32] Callipygian Christensen: Just as a moment to point out something – while this item has been discussed in the past it is not actually ON today’s agenda, so any citizen or the SC could, if they chose, challenge the validity of the vote. Since it HAS been discussed before I can’t see that happening, but I suggest strongly that anything you plan to vote on, whether you are calling it a proposal or motion, be on the agenda o the populace is aware.
[09:25:10] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Dean apologies
[09:25:23] Birch (moonrise.azalee): Voting now —- Aye
[09:25:36] Callipygian Christensen: nah, no apology needed – its not a problem, until some banshee decides it is
[09:25:56] Ranma Tardis: they need to run for ra
[09:26:13] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Rosie if you will bear the work we are giving you .. please move forward
[09:26:44] Shep (shep.titian): Ok No commission reports
[09:26:55] Shep (shep.titian): Tor
[09:28:25] Rosie Gray nods
[09:29:26] Shep (shep.titian): Somebody bump the Chancellor
[09:30:01] Rosie Gray duly bumps
[09:30:42] Shep (shep.titian): Lets dop the rest
[09:30:56] Birch (moonrise.azalee) nods
[09:31:00] Ranma Tardis: nods
[09:31:40] Rosie Gray tries giving Tor a poke, again
[09:31:43] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[09:31:48] Birch (moonrise.azalee): Next meeting? I need to head to work.. is it possible to decide that?
[09:31:50] Shep (shep.titian): No general announcements
[09:31:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, just a few things
[09:31:59] Shep (shep.titian): Next meeting
[09:32:11] Shep (shep.titian): Four weeks?
[09:32:20] Ranma Tardis: nods
[09:32:22] Tor Karlsvalt: We have some acts lined up for the fest.
[09:32:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Lindimoo, Jaynine, reggie sunset, Noma Faulta
[09:32:43] Shep (shep.titian): Tor go ahead
[09:32:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Working on a few more.
[09:33:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Lots of irons in the fire.
[09:33:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Also have several DJs
[09:33:26] Tor Karlsvalt: The theater is progressing.
[09:33:56] Tor Karlsvalt: The old theater has been removed and all are encouraged to visit the site to see what Cadence has built so far.
[09:34:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Done
[09:34:11] Birch (moonrise.azalee) stands, trying not to be tooo disruptive… ‘I’m off to work guys. Same bat time, same bat place, 4 weeks’
[09:34:31] Rosie Gray: bye Birch!
[09:34:32] josjoha: bye Birch, ty for the efforts in the RA
[09:34:35] Birch (moonrise.azalee): well, ill be back before then, but as far as meeting is concerned
[09:34:35] Pip Torok: a sight worth seeing btw
[09:34:36] Ranma Tardis: move we ajourn
[09:34:37] Lilith Ivory: bye Birch
[09:34:53] Shep (shep.titian): Bye hun
[09:35:07] Birch (moonrise.azalee): thank you all!
[09:35:11] Birch (moonrise.azalee): See you soon
[09:35:18] Lilith Ivory: I need to run too – see you guys )
[09:35:19] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Birch
[09:35:24] Shep (shep.titian): Tor are you done?
[09:35:25] Tor Karlsvalt: by Lil
[09:35:28] Birch (moonrise.azalee): oh, i second we adjourn
[09:35:29] Birch (moonrise.azalee): lol
[09:35:31] josjoha: bye Lillith
[09:35:34] Lilith Ivory is offline.
[09:35:35] Ranma Tardis: aye
[09:35:37] Shep (shep.titian): Bye Lil
[09:35:50] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[09:35:59] Shep (shep.titian): You’re free Ran
[09:36:12] Birch (moonrise.azalee): aye
[09:37:18] Shep (shep.titian): Next meeting as Ran says Sept 28th at 8 am
[09:37:31] Callipygian Christensen: after Tuesday or Wednesday i will be gone again for a wek or so, just as FYI
[09:37:38] Ranma Tardis: would say we had a very productive meeting
[09:38:13] Shep (shep.titian): Yes we did
[09:38:14] Pip Torok: agrees
[09:38:38] Shep (shep.titian): Looks forward to the events to promote CDS
[09:39:03] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah
[09:39:24] Tor Karlsvalt: I am going to have some little script for performers.
[09:39:42] Rosie Gray: good idea
[09:40:14] Shep (shep.titian): Cool
[09:40:38] Birch (moonrise.azalee): k, leaving for real *waves*
[09:40:55] Shep (shep.titian): Bye hun

Permalink.

RA Meeting 28 September 2013

28 Sep 2013 RA Meeting Transcript
by Bagheera » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:35 pm
Shep Titian [08:03] Calling the meeting to order
[08:04] Do people have the agenda?

Moonrise Azalee [08:04]
Pip Torok [08:04] not me

Ranma Tardis [08:04] yes

Moonrise Azalee [08:04] i don’t seem to

WorkHorse – Meeting Recorder (Medieval Edition)
[08:04] Meeting called to order, at 8:05:00SLT, 2013-09-28.
[08:04] This meeting is moderated by Pip Torok.
[08:04] Please touch the WorkHorse Meeting Recorder to confirm your attendance now.
[08:05] In attendance: Moonrise Azalee has agreed to be recorded.

Ludo Merit [08:05] Do we all touch that?

WorkHorse – Meeting Recorder (Medieval Edition)
[08:05] In attendance: Callipygian Christensen has agreed to be recorded.
[08:05] In attendance: Soro Dagostino has agreed to be recorded.
[08:05] In attendance: Ludo Merit has agreed to be recorded.
[08:05] In attendance: josjoha Resident has agreed to be recorded.
[08:05] In attendance: Ranma Tardis has agreed to be recorded.

Soro Dagostino [08:06] Hello Calli.

Ludo Merit [08:06] I’m glad to see you’re still using that

Callipygian Christensen [08:06] morning Soro, everyone

Shep Titian [08:06] Hi Calli

WorkHorse – Meeting Recorder (Medieval Edition)
[08:06] Meeting adjourned at 8:06:42SLT.

Shep Titian [08:06] notice out weith the agenda attached
[08:07] All got one now?

Moonrise Azalee [08:07] yes

Shep Titian [08:07] good

Ludo Merit [08:07] yes

Shep Titian [08:07] ok

Ranma Tardis [08:07] ya

Shep Titian [08:08] And do we approve said agenda?

Moonrise Azalee [08:08] aye

Ranma Tardis [08:08] move to approve agenda
[08:08] aye

Shep Titian [08:08] Aye
[08:08] thank you Ran
[08:09] Hi Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [08:09] Hi Shep
[08:09] Hi all

Moonrise Azalee [08:09] aye

josjoha Resident [08:09] hi Tor

Shep Titian [08:09] Tor do you have an exec staement today?

Tor Karlsvalt [08:09] Sure

Shep Titian [08:09] cool
[08:10] Citizens concerns?

Tor Karlsvalt [08:10] Hi Jamie

Shep Titian [08:10] Deathly hush means all is well

Tor Karlsvalt [08:10]
Shep Titian [08:11] RA concerns?

Jamie Palisades [08:11] First time I have heard THAT theory in 6 years or so

josjoha Resident [08:11] josjoha Resident *muffled cough*

Moonrise Azalee [08:11] Not from me

Shep Titian [08:11] Ok
[08:11] What Jos?

Ranma Tardis [08:11] reserve the right for latter

Tor Karlsvalt [08:11] Tor Karlsvalt hopes the murmurs from the dungeon are not head.

josjoha Resident [08:12] ok, why not, perhaps we could discuss the temple-parcel in NFS shortly

Pip Torok [08:12] ?

Shep Titian [08:12] OK moving on .. Old business .. nothing being dealt wioth today

Tor Karlsvalt [08:13] Hi Rosie! Welcome back.

Shep Titian [08:13] New business .. Reminders or the next elections

josjoha Resident [08:13] hey Rosie

Pip Torok [08:13] hi rosie

Rosie Gray [08:13] hi everyone
[08:13]

Shep Titian [08:13] CValli I havec l;ifted your forum post as it has the relevant details I hope thats ok

Callipygian Christensen [08:14] certainly

Shep Titian [08:14] I would have asked had you been on
[08:14] Thank you

Callipygian Christensen [08:14] Forum posts are public posts, no need to ask

Shep Titian [08:15] Can I ask .. are any of you thinking of standing in the election?
[08:15] Jos .. you are always keen

Tor Karlsvalt [08:15] Tor Karlsvalt looks down at his shoes.

Jamie Palisades [08:15] To whom are you directing this question?

Shep Titian [08:15] THe room Jamie

josjoha Resident [08:15] me ??? oh no

Pip Torok [08:16] Pip Torok thinks we need a little more notice of that question

Shep Titian [08:16] I’m not standing next time

Ludo Merit [08:16] I can’t get on the forum so I don’t know these ‘reminders’

Rosie Gray [08:16] ?

Shep Titian [08:16] I’ve heard that Tan may be taking a break .. Nolli has no net coverage
[08:17] Hi Rosy

Rosie Gray [08:17] hi Shep

Ranma Tardis [08:17] am reading the post

Tor Karlsvalt [08:17] Nolli was able to get on yesterday for a short time.

Pip Torok [08:17] can the meeting join me in thanking Shep for her har yet humorous handling of the difficult job of LRA?

Moonrise Azalee [08:18] Moonrise Azalee can’t believe it’s that time again

Shep Titian [08:18] How do I give you notice of a Question without telling you the question?

Moonrise Azalee [08:18] Yes! Big thanks to you Shep

Rosie Gray [08:18] absolutely, thank you Shep!

Shep Titian [08:19] WEll thanks .. I’ve mostly enjoyed it

Tor Karlsvalt [08:19] Tor Karlsvalt gives shep a hearty thanks and wishes best for the next two months.

Jamie Palisades [08:19] Yes, thanks Shep. Hmm. I can’t quite tell, Mme. LRA, whether there are rules here for who speaks when, anymore — but it occurs to me that CDS rules are *not* very good at dealing with situations when a low number of candidates results in stalemate or stasis. Anyone working on that?

Shep Titian [08:19]
Ranma Tardis [08:19] what about the post Shep?

Callipygian Christensen [08:20] Jamie – other than the secret plan to declare me Empress for Life, no.

Moonrise Azalee [08:20] Moonrise Azalee grins

Tor Karlsvalt [08:20] haha

Jamie Palisades [08:20] But you look GOOD in a tiara, Calli.

josjoha Resident [08:20] Jamie: yes, I have just proposed a new Constitution for CDS on the forums

Tor Karlsvalt [08:20] That was a secret plan?

Soro Dagostino [08:20] Well, I thought you were?

Jamie Palisades [08:20] ANyway, didn’t we already do that with Gwyn when she was the SC?

Callipygian Christensen [08:20] I do indeed

Shep Titian [08:20] OK .. back to business

Jamie Palisades [08:20] It’s your classical features.
[08:21] Oh – sorry – was there some? I thought you asked about elections.

Shep Titian [08:22] OK .. back to business
[08:22] I’m sorry Jamie am I boring you?
[08:23] I will assume that you all know how to ensure you can vote

Jamie Palisades [08:23] Not at all. I was rtting to respond to your questions. Is it not time for that? I would’;t want to be boring either.

Ludo Merit [08:23] not me

Jamie Palisades [08:23] Jamie Palisades sits back happily and waits politely

Shep Titian [08:24] Oop too late
[08:24] Ok .. I just wanted to remind everyone
[08:25] Let me just add I did’nt think this meeting was going to happen
[08:26] I was told that Ranma was boycotting future meetings to force us to be inquorate .. so I did’nt sask around

Ranma Tardis [08:26] Well to be honest it has to do with American politics

Jamie Palisades [08:26]

Rosie Gray [08:27] Rosie Gray wonders why American politics have anything to do with the CDS

Shep Titian [08:27] Only by asking last night did I discover she was coming .. but that left no time for business to be declared 24 hours in advance

Ranma Tardis [08:27] the skinny is I do not want to act like a Tea Party Republican having a tantrum

Shep Titian [08:28] I was explaining why this meeting is cobbled together
[08:28] Moving on

Ranma Tardis [08:28] explaining why I am here

Soro Dagostino [08:28] The issue really is one of finding a way to replace members of the RA who cannot fulfill their terms.

Shep Titian [08:28] Moving on

Jamie Palisades [08:29] Soro, you’d think that would be under discussion, yes

Shep Titian [08:29] Now lag

Soro Dagostino [08:29] In many groups, missing more than 3 meetings allows the body to replace the member.

josjoha Resident [08:29] josjoha Resident notices this problem might not occur in proposed new election system

Pip Torok [08:29] Pip Torok agrees with soro and wonders whether one reserve RA member might be the way to go …

Soro Dagostino [08:30] Jos, what proposal.

Jamie Palisades [08:30] Sorry, madame moderator or whatever – are we *talking* about that issue now or not?
[08:30] (Wouldn;t want to bore you otherwise.)

Shep Titian [08:30] Sorry my post has vanished it seems

josjoha Resident [08:30] Soro: I’ve posted a Constitution for CDS on the forum, it has an election system where voters group and by having a minimum they immediately have one representative, and only one, that they can replace any moment (with apologies to the chair)

Shep Titian [08:31] Ranma . would you like to open the discussion on Covenants?

Jamie Palisades [08:31] (URL Link, josjoha?)

josjoha Resident [08:32] ((franticly searching Jamie … sec … big thank u for interest !!))

Ranma Tardis [08:32] sure they have become so restrictive it takes a professional to have a chance of making an “approved” build.

Shep Titian [08:32] Would you two like to talk in IM
[08:32] Jos and Jamie

josjoha Resident [08:32] viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4114 (a Constitution)

Ranma Tardis [08:33] the founding principles was that there was a lot of latitude in builds. It has to do with our principle of freedom

josjoha Resident [08:33] (sorry chairman)
[08:33] josjoha Resident *raises hand*

Shep Titian [08:34] THx Jos

Ranma Tardis [08:34] things have gotten so bad that the cds is becoming a showroom for content proveders and no a community

Pip Torok [08:34] raises hand

Jamie Palisades [08:34] Jamie Palisades chuckles. Me too. Raising hand.

Shep Titian [08:35] Pip after Ran is done

Ranma Tardis [08:35] I propose we change the language so strict interpretation is removed and we return to founding principles.
[08:35] thank you

Ludo Merit [08:35] Ludo Merit tentatively raises hand.

Moonrise Azalee [08:35] raises hand

Shep Titian [08:35] Pip then Jamie then Ludo
[08:35] Pip

Ranma Tardis [08:36] am done

Pip Torok [08:37] I refute the assertion that a _professional_ is needed to read a covenant … to me they are clarity itself … and i assert that what ranma calls liberalisation wd result in a slummy and squalid mess .. Kowloon is a good example … done

Shep Titian [08:37] Thank you Pip
[08:37] Jamie?

Jamie Palisades [08:38] thanks.
[08:38] I always thought that a key draw of DCDS was the sheer visual look — and a more or less unified set of themes. Look at AM – lots of variables give room for lots of expression — but we are NOT Caledon with random floating skypunk stemawhatevers and nbeon As a result our vacancy rate has always been LOWER than Caledon’s Still is, based on what I roughly know – and would be even more so if Des had not closed sims at will.
[08:38] I don;t agree that covenant free building would improve CDS.
[08:38] WEe have mainland for that.
[08:38] A few Roman era enthusiasts wanted RA. The faction in piower ghave it to them, It has never sold well., Its theme is therefore flawed, in the sense of econonmically proven failure. Calli has a proposal to replace it.

Tor Karlsvalt [08:39] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.

Jamie Palisades [08:39] SHould that not be the focus of debate? Thanks, done.

Shep Titian [08:40] Jos did I miss you?

josjoha Resident [08:40] SHep: yes, but it’s ok, put me after Ludo & Tor is fine, thx : )

Shep Titian [08:40] SDorry Ludo he shoul;d have been first

Ranma Tardis [08:40] raises hand

Shep Titian [08:41] Ludo please
[08:41] Then Jos

Ludo Merit [08:42] I like the idea of themed sims. I am a good test case. I am not a professional builder. I just asked foir approval on NFS and expect to get it. My first effort was not approved and it conformed to what the covenant said in every particular. I was then told I had to use a fachwerk texture, and that is not in the covenant. I don’t object to themes but I do object to unwritten covenants. If my place is approved as it is now it would prove that it doesn’t take a pro to build something acceptable.
[08:43] Done foir noiw

Shep Titian [08:43] Thanks Ludo .. Jos then Tor

josjoha Resident [08:44] On the general topic: I concur that covenants should be strict to create an harmonic atmosphere that is realistic; but all within reason (not to harp excessively on a wood/stone texture to be perfectly archeologically accurate). As an example of Covenant: there is a parcel in NFS (far side of town from here) in which someone has build a Greek god on a pole, with a temple and an amphitheater; these devices are not Bavarian-mid-eaval. If they would be there at all, they would probably be in ruins. Mid-eaval bavaria was strongly into the jesus religion at the time, ty. Perhaps Tor can enforce NFS Covenant on the parcel ? thanks done.

Shep Titian [08:45] Thanks Jos
[08:45] Tor then Birch then Ran

Tor Karlsvalt [08:45] Since we are discussing covenants, I must say that I have always tried to strike a balance between strictness and freedom. IMO some of those who are most vocal on this have build building in bad faith only to cause controversy. And the community seems to let itself get drawn into public fights that are best handled privately. I do not refer to Ludo here. .
[08:47] I note that some builds have been in poor taste, poorly constructed and out of theme.
[08:47] Their only purpose was to make a political statement.
[08:47] In time these have been dealt with.
[08:47] done

Pip Torok [08:47] (hear hear!)

Shep Titian [08:48] Thanks Tor .. Birch .. then Ran

Jamie Palisades [08:48] Amen. It’s a tough job, and one not best done by pogrom.

Rosie Gray [08:48] Rosie Gray nods

josjoha Resident [08:49] Justice is best served in public, creating jurisprudence and transparency…

Moonrise Azalee [08:50] I just wanted to say that I am definiitely not a pro, and my first two homes i built here in CN and in LA, I asked for lots of input from Rosie and others. I didn’t find it hard per sec but I did find a bit of confusion. I think that having somewhat of a ‘strict’ guideline , as long as enforced for all builds including ones from the past, is good for the over all area. I personally feel a very strong sense of community, you can tell by the way we all bicker.

Rosie Gray [08:50] ?

Shep Titian [08:50]
Moonrise Azalee [08:50] I do think also it would be nice to have back up prefabs for the oddly shaped areas so that those who arent up for a building challenge, yet who want to swap out paper thin alpha walled exisitng homes, have a pre approved variety of choice.
[08:51] I also personally take just as much issue to places in the centres of NFS and CN, left empty
[08:51] i know thats not the topic here ut it contributes to the sometimes dismal-ish look
[08:51] done

Shep Titian [08:52] Thanks .. Ranma

Ranma Tardis [08:52] Am looking at the covenant for Neuf
[08:52] The city of Neufreistadt is modeled after a medieval Bavarian city with a surrounding valley. The time period is indeterminate.

Pip Torok [08:52] Pip Torok agrees about the dismal emptiness …

Soro Dagostino [08:53] sorry all, RL calls.

Ranma Tardis [08:53] There is nothing that it be preindustrial but only of the materials and design

Shep Titian [08:54] e Soro

Ranma Tardis [08:54] we were never meant to be a historical group of sims
[08:55] I do not advocake making the convalescents too weak but like real cities there is always the exception.

Pip Torok [08:55] Pip Torok respectively gegs to differ .. how can a mediaeval theme be anything but pre-industrial?

Ranma Tardis [08:55] right now a very few citizens are forcing their will on the majority.

Shep Titian [08:55] Pip please no one interupted you

Ranma Tardis [08:56] I would like to extend and revise my remarks
[08:57] Perhaps it needs to be rewritten to be “preindustrial” we would have to build them only like pre 1700
[08:57] the sims in reality would look like a slum
[08:58] you are taking a single passage and are wagging the dog with it
[08:58] again first part
[08:58] The city of Neufreistadt is modeled after a medieval Bavarian city with a surrounding valley. The time period is indeterminate.
[08:58] since it is first it overrides the second

Shep Titian [08:58] ??

Ranma Tardis [08:59] I advocate tolerance but not making the mainland or Caledon. As a Peer of Caledon take insults as a personal insult.
[08:59] done

Shep Titian [09:00] Modelled after a medieval Bavarian city .. then that’s what it should look like

Jamie Palisades [09:00] Jamie Palisades grins, raises hand

Shep Titian [09:01] There are so many off covenant bits here and there that are tolerated Ran
[09:01] Loads of them

Ludo Merit [09:01] Ludo Merit raises hand

josjoha Resident [09:01] josjoha Resident *raises hand*

Shep Titian [09:01] Jos

josjoha Resident [09:02] If there are off covenant bits tolerated, as you say and i have heard from others: I hope these bits & pieces can be brought in line of the Covenant, or the Covenant be expanded; otherwise we will erode the law. thanks done.

Rosie Gray [09:03] Rosie Gray raises hand

Shep Titian [09:03] I understand for the most part they are grandfathered
[09:04] But as buildings are replaced they can be cleaned up

josjoha Resident [09:04] josjoha Resident raises hand

Shep Titian [09:04] Jos
[09:05] oop sorry Rosy was in IM

josjoha Resident [09:05] Ludo raised her hand before me, and so did Rosie. thx

Jamie Palisades [09:05] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises his again, just in case.

Shep Titian [09:05] OK Not answering any IMs
[09:05] Jamie

Jamie Palisades [09:06] Thank yhou.
[09:06] Ranma, I would never diss Caledon, a place run by an old friend of mind — and of CDS — who unofficially apprenticed HERE first, by the way. I attend and support their events and lived there for years — until my home sim there was closed — Ranma, you were resident there too — but CDN is simply an inappropriate model for CDS. Run differently, based on equally-valid but different models and goals.
[09:06] Jos, I think you have a valid point but the way we *usually* have successfully dealt with such thigns is — quiet intervention with the Chancellor first, THEN a decision, THEN a debate IF someone’s sitll unhappy. That makes for less fractiouslness
[09:06] DOne, thanks

Shep Titian [09:07] Thank you Ludo

Pip Torok [09:07] raises hand

Ludo Merit [09:07] [whispers] I just wanted to say a couple of things.
[09:08] I just wante dto say a couple of things

Rosie Gray [09:09] Rosie Gray raises hand

Ludo Merit [09:09] I am not against reasonable theme requirements. I am against applying them unfairly to some and not to others.

Shep Titian [09:09] Josd

Ludo Merit [09:09] So far I have seen some evidence of that but am not sure yet that it’s a serious problem, though I’m told it is
[09:09] Oh, am I supposed to be done?

Shep Titian [09:10] Then I’m going Rosie Pip as she asked and I missed her

josjoha Resident [09:10] i defer to Rosie, who was first i think, please; ah ok Ludo, continue

Shep Titian [09:10] Jos take the place you asre given after Ludo
[09:10] then its RTosie and Pip

josjoha Resident [09:11] Ok, I concur with Jamie that it’s appropriate to start small and then beat louder on the drum if an issue is not resolved,

Ludo Merit [09:11] And I want to mention that ‘time indeterminate’ has allowed solar panels and a roof garden on NFS, and I don’t think it looks too bad.
[09:11] Done

josjoha Resident [09:12] however we are here now to debate it, and the violation in NFS other side of town seems quite extreme to me, it’s a ancient Greek build, it says so itself, even rezzed under an ancient Rome group. Tor did not reply what he is planning, i would like to ask how Tor likes to proceed in the matter, thanks. done.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:12] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.

Shep Titian [09:12] Rosie

Rosie Gray [09:13] may I defer to Tor to answer the question first?

Ranma Tardis [09:13] raises hand

Shep Titian [09:13] Tor
[09:14] then Rosie then Pip then Ranma

Tor Karlsvalt [09:15] First, with regard to the Roman temple in NFS. It is my understanding that the temple was a temporary building exercise and is to be replaced this weekend or so. Also, I have talked to a neighbor of the the temple who finds the build tolerable given its temporary nature.
[09:15] Second

Ludo Merit [09:16] Ludo Merit raises hand

Shep Titian [09:16] after Ranma Ludo

Tor Karlsvalt [09:16] At times building are within the covenant, but perhaps not well liked by neighbors. Some have ed builders with their houses. This is not the government engaging in unfair treatment.

josjoha Resident [09:17] josjoha Resident raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:17] Regarding NFS
[09:17] In my memory here, NFS has had a wide range of styles.
[09:17] I remember a bauhaus build when I arrived.
[09:18] I think there was a victorian house also.

Jamie Palisades [09:18] Jamie Palisades tries to block out the memory of that concrete block house from the nice Quaker fellow.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] As far as I can tell, as long as he houses fit the landscape and are of natural materials, they are allowed.
[09:18] done
[09:18] ah

Shep Titian [09:19] Rosie

Rosie Gray [09:19] thanks…

Shep Titian [09:19] then pip then Ran then Jamie

Rosie Gray [09:20] I think that the covenants are quite clear for the sims
[09:20] and give a reasonable amount of leaway for creativity
[09:21] I think that some of these issues have arisen because of the grandfathered builds that were let to slide from a long time ago

Jamie Palisades [09:21] ((I’ll pass, this turn, I think, Shep. BRB.))

Shep Titian [09:21] ok Jamie

Rosie Gray [09:21] and that as new builds are created, they should conform to the covenants
[09:22] we shouldn’t be letting new builds not conform, because that just perpetuates the problem

Moonrise Azalee [09:22] Moonrise Azalee reluctantly raises her hand also

Shep Titian [09:22] Cheers Rosie

Rosie Gray [09:22] but I want concerned people who want to build their own places and don’t have a lot of experience

Shep Titian [09:22] After Ran Birch

Rosie Gray [09:22] to know that they are always welcome to request advise and from the Artisan’s Guild

Moonrise Azalee [09:23] Moonrise Azalee nods.

Rosie Gray [09:23] we are there to …

Tor Karlsvalt [09:23] my appolgies, I have to go to the platz for a moment.

Shep Titian [09:23] ok Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [09:23] brb

Rosie Gray [09:24] and that as a less experienced builder, you can take it as an opportunity to get better at your building, so you’ll be better able to make both what you want and what will aesthetically please your neighbours
[09:24] and fit the covenants
[09:24] I feel that we should try to work together instead of at odds with one another
[09:24] done

Shep Titian [09:24] thanks Rosie and agree
[09:24] Pip

Pip Torok [09:26] to speakers who feel that a _minority_ are trying to force their strictures upon a majority Id like to say that a vote is the means of confirming or otherwise that thought … done

Shep Titian [09:26] thanks Pip .. Ranma

Callipygian Christensen [09:27] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Ranma Tardis [09:28] okies think that people are forcing a fantasy version of reality on people

Shep Titian [09:28] Calli after Birch

Ranma Tardis [09:28] am going to rez a picture of a roman yes roman building in the Rhineland

josjoha Resident [09:29] raised hand
[09:30] there are amphitheaters and ruins of temples in Bavaria

Shep Titian [09:30] What is the point Ranma?

Ranma Tardis [09:31] this was constructed log before the era and there are others as well. What I see is some want to create a sim of perfect builds to make themselves happy

Rosie Gray [09:31] Rosie Gray raises hand

Shep Titian [09:31] Are you done Ran?

Ranma Tardis [09:31] that in the real world there is no 100 percent anything
[09:31] coughs

Shep Titian [09:32] Rosie theres Bircg and Calli first

Ranma Tardis [09:33] there should be a way to replace not strictly themed buildings. otherwise the sims look like the theme park “Busch Gardens” in the USA and completely fake
[09:34] I ask for tolerance not throwing the rules away. What is happening now sounds like the purification plan of a recent German government..

Shep Titian [09:34] Too far Ranma

Ranma Tardis [09:34] we have to respect others as is stated in our Constitution.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:35] Tor Karlsvalt Raises hand.

Ranma Tardis [09:35] Maybe Shep but I am talking

Shep Titian [09:35] RL gov’ts have town planning

Ranma Tardis [09:35] Shep can I finish?

Shep Titian [09:36] Go ahead

Ranma Tardis [09:37] The thing is what the minority wants is a “theme park” look. I propose we let the next election cycle decide
[09:37] thank you
[09:37] done

Shep Titian [09:37] Thanks Birch then Calli

josjoha Resident [09:37] raised hand

Rosie Gray [09:37] Rosie Gray coughs

Shep Titian [09:38] Rosie you were after Calli .. it has taken that long

Rosie Gray [09:38] ?

Moonrise Azalee [09:38] ok well 1) I admit that once we are putting control panels on tops of houses that are modeled after a meieval bavarian city it gets confusing. Do panels count as building material? the window stucture has to be old, the siding, the roof.. .but solar panels are okay? yes i find that odd in the way the covenant states.
[09:38] 2nd

Shep Titian [09:39] Jos after Rosie

Moonrise Azalee [09:39] The temple.. not sure who built it, but without stepping on toes lest that person be here, regardless of what the neighbours of the temple think, how does that look for people who come here, looking to live here because of the amazing community, its history and lush backdrops… so then they put a lighthouse on a ledge over the water, because it looks nice but is totally not in theme…

josjoha Resident [09:40] ty

Moonrise Azalee [09:40] each thing we do here, especially in builds that are being focused toward the public, should reflect the integrity of our commitment to this place. a bit of hard work and effort…
[09:42] i really think all builds need to be brought up to snuff and if solar panels are going to be allowed on homes in NFS, then we really need to look at the covenant and figure out a way to have that make sense. to me ‘built to look like a mideval bavarian villafe of an undetermined time ‘ means like.. any years within the medieval period… point being.. it should be brought across the board. too much confusion. Done.

Shep Titian [09:42] YThanks Birch .. Calli

Tor Karlsvalt [09:42] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand higher.

Callipygian Christensen [09:42] Thankyou . This is rather dejavuish since in fall of 2011 Trebor tried to find aan officer to enforce covenants. I am reposting something I wrote on the Forums then since here we are 2 years later, at it again, and my comments still apply. (large block of quoted text coming)

Shep Titian [09:43] Tor you’re after first Rosie then Jos

Tor Karlsvalt [09:43] thanks

Callipygian Christensen [09:43] Personally there are a number of the covenant requirements that I could’nt care less about, and probably wouldn’t even notice are a contravention – I am guessing that is true of many of us, and means those contraventions don’t get reported in any prescribed time. In other cases, back in the mists of time, a Chancellor may have given permission for the variance making the build ‘legal’. Others see it, follow suit, and aren’t even aware they are not in compliance.
As an example, look at Neufriestadt. One simple line in the covenants states that inside the city walls ‘ all plots must have a building’. The last time I walked around there were 4 or 5 plots with no building on the ground, and one with a beehive.
[09:43] A new resident walking through the city and deciding to buy a plot would probably assume that it will be ok to remove that fachwerk sitting on it, because others have clearly done so. If a beehive is ok, then perhaps a pen of chickens will be ok to
[09:44] Sooner or later someone will ask the Chancellor to act about one of these non-compliant plots, whether as a result of an aesthetic desire for improvement or a desire to harrass the owner – at that point the Chancellor must act. It’s a rock and a hard place – if the Chancellor enforces the rules, the resident who must bring their build into compliance points out that this isn’t fair, since a number of others aren’t following the Covenants either.If the Chancellor doesn’t the person filing the complaint will probably be squawking on the Forums that s/he isn’t doing her job or is playing favourites.
[09:44] So if we are going to have Covenants, they need to be monitored and enforced consistently. If we do not want such precise and detailed Covenants, then follow due process to get them changed. As others have pointed out in different threads, the ‘majority’ may now be a different set of people than in the past. I don’t necessarily agree with that observation, but if it is accurate, changing the Covenants is well within their rights and abilities.
[09:45] Personally, I would support a 90 day ‘bring your plots and builds up to covenant’ request from the Chancellor’s office. No grandfathering, no exceptions. If the residents were to do this voluntarily, then there really wouldn’t be a need for enforcement officers – but I am not holding my breathe on that
[09:45] -end of quoted text-

Moonrise Azalee [09:45] Moonrise Azalee nods in firm agreement of that ancient but well expressed post

Tor Karlsvalt [09:45] Thanks

Pip Torok [09:45] (and so does Pip)

Tor Karlsvalt [09:46] First, with regard to NFS.

Rosie Gray [09:46] ahem

Callipygian Christensen [09:46] earlier this year when Bagheera was concerned about covenants I posted this:http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4023&p=20474&hilit=+covenant#p20474
[09:46] suggesting *how* our covenants are written in the tabs is part of the problem – again I suggest that it still applies. Thak you – done.

Shep Titian [09:46] Calli are you done?

Ranma Tardis [09:46] raises hand for closing statement

Tor Karlsvalt [09:47] When the covenants were rewritten in 2011 there was an attempt to make them clear and the description of NFS as a POST MODERN medieval Bavarian Village was ommited.
[09:47] sorry cally
[09:47] I didn’t mean to intrude on your space.

Shep Titian [09:47] Sorry ok Rosie

Rosie Gray [09:47] Tor you are after me and Jos

Tor Karlsvalt [09:47] ohok
[09:47] sorry to all

Shep Titian [09:48] Yes Jos wioll be next

josjoha Resident [09:48] ty
[09:48] The NFS Greek temple violation (to Tor): I notice these weeks where a special time in NFS with the house-tour which also passed the out of theme temples. I propose that the RA passes a guideline if necessary that buildings that are flagrantly out of theme are not allowed to persist past the opportunity to remove them; perhaps with a 2 day deadline to the builder. Sand boxes are for excercises..
[09:48] Theme strictness (in reply to Ranma): There is also ample of ancient Rome in the CDS already. Ranma says there are Roman ruins in Bavaria, this is true; however how many are there, did every small Bavarian village have them; it seems doubtful, secondly they would likely be in ruined not new state. Also there is already a heavy Roman precence in CDS, the idea that “Roman things can be visible in med-eaval Bavaria” is well provided for by the view on the Roman sims. When one says “desert theme,” does one rezz an oil refinery, because there are oil refineries in some deserts ?
[09:49] I prefer a theme-park look, to a mainland look. But I think that Ranma has a good point: the NFS village for example is somewhat homogenious ? Where are the farms ? Where are the homes that aren’t fachwerk (wasn’t fachwerk for the well-to-do ?). Where are the swines, the oxen, the stinking runoff. The middle ages had a lot of fun to offer. In the same way the Roman sims all show the upper aristocracy their palaces; in reality there was more small places, poor dwellings, also farms, all kinds. The selection within the theme seems narrow, giving that theme-park look ?
[09:50] I concur with Birch, maybe we can have “Covenant compliance month” to give citizens a chance to comply debatable choices, and then do a strict review. thanks, done.
[09:50] ty (sorry for length)

Rosie Gray [09:50] thanks Shep… okay I agree with Calli’s post, but I did want to say that I do think that Ranma was right about the ancient Roman build being okay because a medieval town would have come AFTER the Roman build, and would have incorporated it into the city. This is true to life so I don’t see what the problem would have been with that.
[09:50] Jos, you took my place

josjoha Resident [09:50] oh sorry, i heard “Jos is next” (by the way, i had my hand raised a long time and was passed over once or twice)

Rosie Gray [09:51] np

josjoha Resident [09:51] ty

Shep Titian [09:51] Rosie now!

Tor Karlsvalt [09:51]
Rosie Gray [09:51] but the point is, that what came before would no doubt still be there
[09:52] and you are right Jos, they would not be like new, they would be old… not necessarily ruins, but old
[09:52] it is common sense and I don’t understand what the issue is around that

josjoha Resident [09:52] josjoha Resident nods

Rosie Gray [09:52] but I did want to clarify one point that Ranma brought up
[09:52] Ranma, you seem to equate ‘perfect’ builds with questions of theme
[09:53] and to me that doesn’t make sense
[09:53] the idea of ‘perfect’ would mean something created that looks realistic…
[09:53] it’s not a matter of the theme
[09:54] so I would ask that you consider using more specific words when you are talking about these issues because using general language makes it hard to understand what you really mean
[09:54] done

Shep Titian [09:54] Thanks Rosie

Tor Karlsvalt [09:54] Thank you Ms. LRA

Shep Titian [09:54] Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [09:55] Sorry for intruding earlier, I lost my place

Shep Titian [09:55] You and me both

Tor Karlsvalt [09:55] RE NFS, I would suggest that we insert the older description of NFS as a post modern medieval city.
[09:56] I belived this was overlooked when the covenants were rewritten.
[09:56] Second, I do not seek a pure sim.
[09:56] CDS is quirky in that we have themes but live in the modern world. We are not RP.
[09:57] In my mind, we marry the themes to what we like to do.

Rosie Gray [09:57] Rosie Gray nods enthusiastically

Tor Karlsvalt [09:57] Sports, or events often have aspects that are anachronistic.

Jamie Palisades [09:58] Jamie Palisades smiles at that and dons his old NFS rugby football shirt

Tor Karlsvalt [09:58] We need to find some language that permits this in order to stop incessant sniping about minor aspects of bilds.
[09:58] done

Shep Titian [09:58] Thanks Tor
[09:59] IO like the idea of a concerted clean up .. if the chancellor and the guild did it together

Ludo Merit [10:00] Point of order. Guild?

Shep Titian [10:01] The Artisan Guild

Ludo Merit [10:01] Thanks

Shep Titian [10:01] Sorry

Ranma Tardis [10:01] question

Shep Titian [10:01] Yesa Ran ?

Ranma Tardis [10:02] How will this “clean up” be done. You can only return the entire build.

josjoha Resident [10:02] raises hand

Shep Titian [10:03] No Ran most things allow you to mod them

Ranma Tardis [10:04] other peoples builds?

Shep Titian [10:04] Well they would have to do it if they were the creator

Ranma Tardis [10:04] what if they do not?

Tor Karlsvalt [10:05] Tor Karlsvalt cna’t let the old men of NFS sit here unchallenged.

Shep Titian [10:05] No one is going around physically forcing change

Jamie Palisades [10:05]

Shep Titian [10:06] Did you raise your hand?
[10:06] I saw JKos

josjoha Resident [10:06] to the idea of Tor & to have a theme but with quirkyness of our weird ways: perhaps we could say the buildings-proper (roof/walls/*) must be strictly in theme, but a different wider theme is set for things like chairs, vehicles ? or vehicles up to 1700, and smaller items (chairs) up to 1900 ???
[10:07] somehow we need a law that is clear & clean, enforceable, enforced
[10:07] ty done

Shep Titian [10:08] Things inside don’t need to be in theme

josjoha Resident [10:08] (yes i mean, outside)

Shep Titian [10:08] ok

josjoha Resident [10:09] we risk sortof a steam-punk look, i’m personally not too liking it to go into the industrial age
[10:09] in NFS

Tor Karlsvalt [10:10] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Shep Titian [10:11] Tor
[10:11] afk a sec Birch in charge

Tor Karlsvalt [10:11] thanks

Moonrise Azalee [10:11] noooo
[10:11] ( )

Tor Karlsvalt [10:13] Oh I just wanted to mention that the temple in NFS has been removed. It was merely a building exercise and totally temporary. I think I will add that one of CDSs great functions is the nurturing of good builders. We can maintain a beautiful sim and still provide or allow students of building opportunities. We are all better for it.
[10:13] done

Callipygian Christensen [10:13] (I see tor typing – but suggest we move things along here? This meeting is past 2 hours already)

Moonrise Azalee [10:14] Thank you Torm and yes, this meeting has certainly grown long
[10:14] Moonrise Azalee looks over agenda
[10:14] Do we have commission reports?

josjoha Resident [10:14] *applauds Tor’s enthusiastic law enforcements*

Tor Karlsvalt [10:16] oh can I add just one more thing if we are wrapping up
[10:16] ?

Moonrise Azalee [10:16] Yes Tor

Tor Karlsvalt [10:16] Just want to reminde everyone we have Engrama here at 1PM
[10:16] should be a good show

Moonrise Azalee [10:16] Moonrise Azalee grins
[10:16] Moonrise Azalee wants to go in to work late so i can catch them first

Tor Karlsvalt [10:17] at 50 Biscuits here at 8PM this evening
[10:17] Tomorrow we have the Ball.
[10:17] at noon
[10:17] With our wonderful Callie as DJ.

Callipygian Christensen [10:17] oh..50 Biscuits are a lot of country fun

Tor Karlsvalt [10:17] Now I am done.

Moonrise Azalee [10:17] Thank you Tor.

Jamie Palisades [10:17] Jamie Palisades smiles

Moonrise Azalee [10:17] Do we have commission reports?

Shep Titian [10:18] back

Moonrise Azalee [10:18] wb!

Shep Titian [10:18] ty
[10:18] no commissions

Jamie Palisades [10:19] Jamie Palisades stands, nods, sorry that I must run, cheers all.

josjoha Resident [10:19] Jamie

Shep Titian [10:19] do you want to giove a exec statement Tor?

Moonrise Azalee [10:19] Jamie

Pip Torok [10:19] Janie

Shep Titian [10:19] Jamioe

Pip Torok [10:19] Jamie!

Tor Karlsvalt [10:19] ok ok
[10:19] but this will be short

Shep Titian [10:19] good

Tor Karlsvalt [10:20] We seem to be doing well with Oktoberfest. Some of you have had good fun

Moonrise Azalee [10:20] Moonrise Azalee grins

Tor Karlsvalt [10:20] We are now in our 10th year. We had our 9th anniversary Sept 21st
[10:21] So no matter what our disagreements, I think we have achieved a great thing.
[10:21] I now I have been honored to serve as Chancellor.
[10:22] Financially, most of our parcels in the four sims excluding LA
[10:22] are sold

Shep Titian [10:22] and a very good job Tor

josjoha Resident [10:22] wew!

Tor Karlsvalt [10:22] Also, we think we can begin with the ad campaign push after the fest.
[10:23] I admit I have been so busy with the fest that this has gotten pushed back.
[10:23] But Widget has some good ideas and we will look at other options.
[10:23] done

Shep Titian [10:24] ok … we need to get on with LA as well
[10:24] ok next meeting
[10:25] Oct 19 or 26?

Moonrise Azalee [10:25] October 12th?

Shep Titian [10:25] two weeks?

Moonrise Azalee [10:25] isnt it every two weeks?

Ranma Tardis [10:25] np

Shep Titian [10:25] no once a month is the requirement

Moonrise Azalee [10:26] oh
[10:26] i thought wed been meeting every two weeks
[10:26] was falling into a routine,
[10:26]

Shep Titian [10:26] no hun .. was August our last meeting .. time just flies

Moonrise Azalee [10:27] ahh
[10:27] sheesh yes
[10:27] ok 19th?

Shep Titian [10:27] yes 19th

Ranma Tardis [10:27] np

Moonrise Azalee [10:27] sounds good to me

Shep Titian [10:27] 8 am again?

Ranma Tardis [10:27] okies

Moonrise Azalee [10:27] can it be 9? or is that too late
[10:27] oh
[10:27] nvm
[10:27] 8
[10:28] <---forgot she has to be at work by noon usually Shep Titian [10:28] fine for me .. Ran any problem? Ranma Tardis [10:28] none Shep Titian [10:28] ok then 9 am Moonrise Azalee [10:28] no 8 is okay [10:28] in case it goes later [10:28] im just tired and forgot that i still have to go to work Shep Titian [10:28] Oct 19th at 9am Moonrise Azalee [10:28] erm [10:28] 8? [10:28] Shep Titian [10:28] ok 8 Moonrise Azalee [10:28] yay Shep Titian [10:29] Oct 19th at 8 am Moonrise Azalee [10:29] sorry i want to sleep in but then again if its not til 9 then i risk being late for work when it goes on to three hours [10:29] perfect [10:29] October 19th at 8am Shep Titian [10:29] move tyo adjourn Moonrise Azalee [10:29] i second that move Rosie Gray [10:29] hehe Ranma Tardis [10:29] aye Callipygian Christensen [10:29] Must hit RL - hope to see you all later josjoha Resident [10:29] ty Shep & everyone. Shep Titian [10:29] aye Moonrise Azalee [10:29] aye [10:30] Calli Tor Karlsvalt [10:30] Tor Karlsvalt loves a decisive RA. Shep Titian [10:30] josjoha Resident [10:30] good everybody

Permalink.

RA Meeting 26 October 2013

October 26, 2013

Shep Titian [08:08] Ok .. well we are quorate so we will begin
[08:08] Calling the meeting to order
[08:08] Hi Calli

Callipygian Christensen [08:08] Callipygian Christensen waves

Soro Dagostino [08:09] Soro Dagostino waves at Calli

Lilith Ivory [08:09] HI Rosie, Hi Calli

Shep Titian [08:09] Ok Birch approves the agenda as stated .. Ranma do you aprove the agenda?

Rosie Gray [08:09] ?

Soro Dagostino [08:09] Soro Dagostino Rosie too

Ranma Tardis [08:09] aye
[08:10] I move to approve the agenda
[08:10] am off this am

Shep Titian [08:10] Speakers on todays agenda items are Rosie Gray .. representing the Guild
[08:11] Ok Any citizens concerns other than the item on agenda?

Bagheera Kristan [08:11] raises hand

Shep Titian [08:11] Bags

Bagheera Kristan [08:12] At Gwyn’s last meeting, it came out that I – as RA Archivist – was supposed to be extracting laws as they were passed and posting them… I didn’t know I was supposed to be doing that, so I am currently going through the transcripts and doing that now just for the record
[08:13] trying to get all the laws current
[08:13] I expect to have that done this week
[08:13] done

Pip Torok [08:14] Pip Torok hopes we’ll all be instant lawyers for the election …

Shep Titian [08:14] Awww thank you Bags … I don’t think we changed anything important this last session … we’ve been focussed on building

Bagheera Kristan [08:14] yes

Shep Titian [08:15] Anyone else?
[08:15] Ok
[08:15] moving on
[08:15] RA any concerns other than the main item ?

Moonrise Azalee [08:15] good lord, ok im back
[08:16] (sorry)

Shep Titian [08:16] WB .. nourished I hope

Moonrise Azalee [08:16] well, im aiming for quiet but well nourished is good too

Rosie Gray [08:16]

Shep Titian [08:16] Lets Birch catch up

Moonrise Azalee [08:16] scrolling

Shep Titian [08:17] Are you ready Rosie?

Moonrise Azalee [08:17] ok. caught up

Shep Titian [08:17] ok cool

Rosie Gray [08:17] yes
[08:18] ?

Shep Titian [08:18] AS there is no old business we move on to the main item .. redesign of LA .. Rosie I give you the floor

Rosie Gray [08:18] thank you Shep
[08:19] As the representative of the CDS Artisan Guild
[08:19] I’d like to present this design you’ve all been looking at… Calli’s design
[08:19] as the one we’d like to recommend for reworking the Locus Amoenus sim
[08:20] as you can see it enlarges the harbour area
[08:20] and creates a focal point, with the little fishing village
[08:20] this would give us some small lots, similar to the walled city in NFS too
[08:20] and of course there are the other varied sized lots
[08:21] with this plan, we can leave the Time Machine where it is
[08:21] and there are a few other lots that can stay as they are too

Bagheera Kristan [08:22] raises hand

Rosie Gray [08:22] I think we may need to adjust the road on the far right so that it stays where it is now, since it connects up with the road on CN

Shep Titian [08:22] When Rosie is done Bags

Bagheera Kristan [08:22]
Rosie Gray [08:23] this plan is to work with the new them of Tuscany that was approved by the RA
[08:23] now, for those people that may have to move some
[08:23] I’ve discussed with our Chancellor the need to compensate people
[08:24] by giving them same sized lots, or buying them out at what they paid, at their choice
[08:25] the details of this need to be worked out still
[08:25] so, waiting for questions now

Shep Titian [08:26] Ok Bags

Moonrise Azalee [08:26] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Bagheera Kristan [08:26] okay just a moment… let me type this out

Shep Titian [08:26] After Bags Birch

Ranma Tardis [08:26] raises hand

Moonrise Azalee [08:26] Moonrise Azalee nods

Shep Titian [08:26] Ran after Birch

Ranma Tardis [08:26] nods

Bagheera Kristan [08:28] Since it appears both my builds… the Insulae which belongs to CDS and my own building and lot, the Library, are both off this map I’d like to hear the benefits and thought behind each parcel created… the reason I am asking is because I did build both of my builds with careful consideration for making the whole sim better so – not a judgment, just a question “why these parcels? what makes each parcel size/location something appealing to a prospective citizen?

Callipygian Christensen [08:28] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Bagheera Kristan [08:29] done

Alexia Carnell [08:29] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Shep Titian [08:29] Rosie do you want to respond?

Rosie Gray [08:29] sure
[08:29] good question Bags ?

Bagheera Kristan [08:29]
Shep Titian [08:30] Calli after Ranma and Alexia after Calli

Rosie Gray [08:30] the plan, although it’s a bit hard to tell from the drawing, was to generally have a cliff down to beach along the left side of the drawing
[08:31] and I also wanted to say, that just because some lots are changing around a bit
[08:31] that it doesn’t mean we can’t keep existing builds
[08:31] they might have to be picked up for a time though

Bagheera Kristan [08:31]
Rosie Gray [08:31] there does need to be some terrascaping done

Shep Titian [08:32] ok Bags?

Rosie Gray [08:32] the biggist part of the plan centres on the enlarged harbour area and the fishing village, which is all currently common land
[08:32] does that answer your question Bags?

Shep Titian [08:32] OK Birch

Bagheera Kristan [08:32] I was wondering about t lines, what does a citizen see – what is their view – from their parcels?

Shep Titian [08:32] oop

Bagheera Kristan [08:32] sorry

Moonrise Azalee [08:32] Moonrise Azalee waits

Rosie Gray [08:32] well there needs to be terrascaping done

Bagheera Kristan [08:32] yes

Rosie Gray [08:32] some of this you’ll have to imagine

Bagheera Kristan [08:33] okay – I guess I just want to say that each citizen should have some sort of view that’s all

Rosie Gray [08:33] but the idea was to have the sim finished around the edges (down to beach)
[08:33] aah, yes

Bagheera Kristan [08:33] nice & nice job, calli

Shep Titian [08:33] k Birch

Moonrise Azalee [08:34] k… well first of all, i just wanted to know is the top of the image West and the bottom East?

Rosie Gray [08:34] the harbour to sea is where it is currently

Moonrise Azalee [08:35] so the top is flowing into CN?

Rosie Gray [08:35] yes
[08:35] and to the right is Monastery

Moonrise Azalee [08:36] Okay, well I just wanted to say I really like the layout, I think it makes a far better use of land. LA has always seemed so random to me. This looks nice. Done

Shep Titian [08:36] thanks
[08:36] Ranma

Ranma Tardis [08:38] I am concerned about citizens being forced to relocate. I do not find your compensation plan correct. Also there will be cries of favoritism by some. How will this be managed and what is the due process to assure fairness?

Rosie Gray [08:39] these details need to be worked out, with the Chancellor
[08:39] but the idea is to keep people happy

Ranma Tardis [08:40] Again there is no due process of law? I like the plan but representing the citizens makes me have to ask.

Rosie Gray [08:40] I don’t think the laws address this issue

Ranma Tardis [08:41] ok, done

Shep Titian [08:41] thanks

Rosie Gray [08:41] and this is why we do need to write it out carefully so that everyone understands the process

Shep Titian [08:41] Calli

Callipygian Christensen [08:41] thank you – just to clarify, this was a draft done with some specifics in mind from the group disscussions1 A fishing village on a larger harbour, 2 Time Machine in same spot for LM access 3 All prcels having road access or water access or both
[08:42] keeping canal and river ‘in line’ as well. Other thn that the parcels were meant to just be ‘there’ I have no idea if there are too many or not enough – so this was just to get the main ‘we wants’ of people in a concept
[08:42] done

Pip Torok [08:42] Pip Torok raises hand

Shep Titian [08:43] alexia then Pip

Alexia Carnell [08:43] More or less same question as Ranma’s – for the moment – this plan was made when LA was a desert – did you consider carefully the troubles it will create, carrying it on now, for LA (and other sims) new citizens?

Shep Titian [08:44] there is still a lot empty Alexia

Alexia Carnell [08:44] done

Shep Titian [08:44] Pip

Pip Torok [08:45] May I suggest that the map forms part of the transcript to this meeting (for obvious reason)? done

Alexia Carnell [08:46] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Lilith Ivory [08:46] Lilith Ivory raises her hand too

Shep Titian [08:46] Alexia

Alexia Carnell [08:46] I must thank anybody who ed with the “favoritism” of preserving my shop location in LA in this plan.
But i think at this point there is SOMETHING MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than my shop, and it’s some basic principles i will try to resume here, if you allow me… can i go on?.

Shep Titian [08:47] Yes go on

Alexia Carnell [08:47] First. As a citizen i have to say the whole LA issue has been managed in a weird way (least i can say). Forcing theme changes. Encouraging spontaneous rezzings. Preparing redesign plans at the desk without sharing enough with citizens. Locking estate transactions to new citizens. Spreading rumours. All this lead to an escalation of misunderstandings, bullying, griefing from citizens against other citizens. So what i ask to our rulers is to step down from their hyperuranian meetings and see what happens on the ground, discuss, share, spend some of their precious time LISTENING and COMMUNICATING in world. Relations work better in world than in a freezing forum, which works well as an archive but is not a problem solver.
[08:47] Second. I had a nice experience in the last days ing a noob to organize his plot. I could see Cds from his point of view, and it all sounded hard-to.understand, hostile, cumbersome. I suddenly realized that ING NEW CITIZENS to deal with strict covenants and impositions or whatever their needs are, is a priority, if we dont want to lose them. So again some more bottom – up approach would not be bad: and never impose.
[08:47] I had another experience i want to share with you. Last year i got a residential plot in another Sim. I wanted some terraforming changes and i had it in one day. I was allowed to build but I had to get my house approved, rezzin it in the sky first. They came and gave me some suggestions. I made some changes, they approved and i was allowed to rez. The whole process took a couple of days. A couple of days!!!. How do we call it? Customer care?
[08:48] Fourth. A special attention should be dedicated to citizens who bring in new people, in spite of their bad tempers, and to citizens who want to organize events, open activities as schools, bars, shops. For some weeks i opened a bellydance school near the Time Machine last year and i have to say i brought a lot of visitors. I think Cds should promoting citizen’s activities. Be their LOUDSPEAKERS in world, and not their daily nightmare.
[08:48] LAST. My dear friends, THESE above should be our priorities. I understand REDESIGNING a sim, building and landscaping is much more fun. But very simply it’s not our core problem. Do you really think that changing a Sim theme or having a top quality landscape will change things and attract more people? Alas you are totally wrong if you believe it. I have seen in these years tens of top quality sims disappear for lack of traffic and business. I have seen some low quality sims surviving and beeing lively and having traffic after five years, just because they had a strong “glue” in their activities that attracted people and made rulers happy to organize them.
[08:49] I suggest you suspend this plan and consider with a bit more attentionn
[08:49] Done

Callipygian Christensen [08:50] Callipygian Christensen has to leave – I wont comment on the speech but will point out this:It isn’t ‘favouritism’, it’s courtesy to a long time location with LMs out in the world – feel free to ignore the courtesy offered and move

Soro Dagostino [08:50] Soro Dagostino raises hand

Alexia Carnell [08:50] oh so kind Cally

Shep Titian [08:51] Lil then Soro

Callipygian Christensen [08:51] Callipygian Christensen waves and heads to the chiro

Shep Titian [08:51] Just an aside from me .. well done Calli for writing your speech

Lilith Ivory [08:51] Lilith Ivory lowers her hand again as she is shocked

Rosie Gray [08:51] Calli, and thanks for the excellent plan

Lilith Ivory [08:51] nothing to say atm

Moonrise Azalee [08:52] Calli

Pip Torok [08:52] Pip Torok eraises hand

Lilith Ivory [08:52] Calli

Soro Dagostino [08:52] Soro Dagostino yields to Pip.

Alexia Carnell [08:52] Thanks Cally, i will consider your proposal

Bagheera Kristan [08:53] ((afk for a bit))

Pip Torok [08:53] i take Alexs point about providing “glue” but i fail to see how _cancelling_ the plan will /hinder this necessary process done

Shep Titian [08:54] Soro?

Soro Dagostino [08:54] I believe there needs to be some planning done. LA is a little occupied space and horse lots.
[08:55] It needs covenants. It needs supervision by the “government”
[08:55] Leaving it to the wishes of citizens, without an agreed plan, will lead to disaster.

Tor Karlsvalt [08:56] Tor Karlsvalt listens to everything but is in some bad lag.

Soro Dagostino [08:56] That is unless those who want to “bubble up” want to guaranty the tier for the Sim.

Alexia Carnell [08:56] wonders what the word “agreed” means

Shep Titian [08:57] I believe it will have covenants Soro .. not a free for all

Soro Dagostino [08:57] Done.
[08:59] brb — warming coffee.

Pip Torok [08:59] Pip Torok raises hand

Shep Titian [08:59] Nice
[08:59] Ok …

Pip Torok [09:00] Pip Torok has hand still in the air …..

Shep Titian [09:00] Sorry Pip

Tor Karlsvalt [09:01] brb

Bagheera Kristan [09:01] raises hand

Pip Torok [09:02] just to say that i wd go one further than soro .. i wd empower the chancellor to negotiate with citizens who _seriously_ compromise the theme and in necessary to remo ve the build done

Alexia Carnell [09:02]
Pip Torok [09:02] if necessary

Alexia Carnell [09:02] Alexia Carnell wonders if Time Machin could become tuscan

Bagheera Kristan [09:03] ((I may have to run to the kitchen really quick as I have something on the stove, but I do have my hand up- ))

Pip Torok [09:03]
Moonrise Azalee [09:03] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Shep Titian [09:03] Pip did you change your mind?

Moonrise Azalee [09:04] Moonrise Azalee whispers… he spoke

Pip Torok [09:04] no .. in what respect?

Shep Titian [09:04] Oop sorry

Pip Torok [09:04] np! )

Shep Titian [09:04] Bags then Birch

Bagheera Kristan [09:05] thank you okay… so, considering what Alexia said, and I feelher thoughts are valid, and weighing it against all that has transpired here… the last RA voted on making this change, so it isn’t a surprise…
[09:05] but I think Alexia makes some valid points and…
[09:06] I think it is important to acknowledge those who have settled in LA… I do believe there is harmony between the new theme as proposed and the current citizenry, as long as there is flexibility and respect on both sides. The people who settled in LA, I believe chose to be there because they LIKE it
[09:06] so they are not the enemies of the government’s plans – – they are the reason for the government’s being
[09:07] and I believe there is good common ground as long as effort is made to listen and consider the people who are there
[09:07] done

Shep Titian [09:07] I have to interject .. there were meetings after meetings about this .. not one did I se Alexia there ,.. in fact I told her I would look out for her interests

Bagheera Kristan [09:07] nevertheless, she is a citizen of LA, as am I

Pip Torok [09:07] Pip Torok guesses that the new citizens like the community spirit fully as much as the landscape

Tor Karlsvalt [09:07] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Alexia Carnell [09:08] i never receive a guild meeting btw
[09:08] *received

Bagheera Kristan [09:08] okay, done

Shep Titian [09:08] Birch

Moonrise Azalee [09:09] ok….

Shep Titian [09:09] After Birch Tor

Rosie Gray [09:09] guild meetings have been announced through the group, and on the forum

Alexia Carnell [09:10] and i already said my opinions in a previous RA meeting
[09:10] group notices last a whim

Moonrise Azalee [09:10] Well first of all, to address Alexia — since being a member of the RA there has been lots of talk about how to get new people here. The only thing we didnt do was change the theme. ITs an issue in SL period as many people find more prims and less cost in other grids —
[09:10] secondly, the point about noobs…..
[09:10] yes, it is a reason i argue for clearer covenants. Not necessarily ‘less stringent’ butmore clear meaning…..
[09:10] thirdly
[09:11] I am a sim owner…. i am full
[09:11] i have people lined up right now to rent parcels…
[09:12] and my prices are an in between.. but do you know what each new tenant says to me….. ‘this place is beautiful.. what a peaceful, attractive place to ‘live’ ‘ so yes, aesthetics DOES play a huge role. LA is currently a rather chaotic mess and does not feel ‘real’ its not very immersive in its appearnce and i feel that the new look is a big step in the right direction. Done.

Ranma Tardis [09:12] raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:13] Thanks
[09:13] Pleahaving some chat lag problems but here goes
[09:14] Last winter I held three long meetings in LA on a theme redo at three different times.
[09:15] The general consensus was a theme change would be a good idea and that Tuscan or Mediterranean would be preferable.
[09:16] As far as promoting citizen interests, that is an excellent idea but I think CDS channels have been open for individuals to promote their interests.

Moonrise Azalee [09:16] Moonrise Azalee nods in agreement

Tor Karlsvalt [09:16] I also would point out that many SL sims have reduced sims. ROMA has cut two sims I think,
[09:16] Ars Avete I understand is out of business.
[09:16] Caledon has downgraded sims.

Bagheera Kristan [09:17] (in counterpoint, Blake Sea Battles has added 5 sims)

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] Without doubt competition for residents is firerse in SL and other grids do take people from SL. I think generally tho, these numbers are small.

Shep Titian [09:18] OK

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] Done

Shep Titian [09:18] we digress
[09:18] I’m ready to put it to the vote
[09:18] I propose that we accept the redesign plan as presented and discussed, and that the guild and Chancellor be authorized to move forward executing the plan.with a time frame “post-Roman to the end of the 19th century (or pre-WWI)”

Ranma Tardis [09:19] second

Shep Titian [09:19] Vote .. aye

Ranma Tardis [09:19] aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:20] Aye

Shep Titian [09:20] Excellent !!!!!

Alexia Carnell [09:20] Ok my friends – i take your vote and make you a favour – i will take Cally’s suggestion and leave LA – and Cds – so you can feel free to build a bright future for the sim. Farewell

Rosie Gray [09:20] ··•°•··..? Applauds! ? ..··•°•··..

Pip Torok [09:20] congratulations everybody!

Rosie Gray [09:20] Rosie Gray notes that some people just cannot be accommodated

Shep Titian [09:20] Rosie and Tor .. can you take this as our request to move ahead with the redevelopment

Rosie Gray [09:21] yes thank you Shep, and thank you Ranma and Birch

Pip Torok [09:21] Pip Torok wd have liked Alexia to have continued with us …

Moonrise Azalee [09:21] Moonrise Azalee grins. Good Job everyone involved in this redesigning

Bagheera Kristan [09:21] me too pip

Lilith Ivory [09:21] me too

Ranma Tardis [09:21] I have faith the Guild will be fair to all citizens

Rosie Gray [09:22] I don’t understand why she is being like that since we said her land would be left alone

Soro Dagostino [09:22] Cleo

Shep Titian [09:22] I agree Soro

Bagheera Kristan [09:22] no, honestly, if you think about it – her brand is Roman themed – and the sim supported that as is

Moonrise Azalee [09:22] I’m looking forward to it, it’s very exciting

Bagheera Kristan [09:22] to state post-Roman gives her no incentive to stay

Rosie Gray [09:23] well then she needs to have her own sim, and pay for the whole thing if that’s the case
[09:23] otherwise, it would have fit just fine

Tor Karlsvalt [09:24] Alas, Roman is in decline unless supported by a strong RP policy or combat.

Bagheera Kristan [09:24] she was unhappy before Cleo, I know this because we talked, so you cannot hang this on Cleo’s influence

Rosie Gray [09:24] Rosie Gray nods

Moonrise Azalee [09:24] Growth can be painful and awkward, but otherwise we risk being stagnant…. the theme as is, Roman… just isnt very attractive to the general population. There are ways that she could adjust. But sometimes giving up is easier.

Bagheera Kristan [09:24] so please don’t
[09:24] true, I like the idea of a bigger harbor

Ranma Tardis [09:25] am sad

Rosie Gray [09:25] she might change her mind

Moonrise Azalee [09:25] landscape is a huge part of wanting to spend time in a fantasy life, i look at places like Chilbo, a huge community once… and its gone to peices
[09:26] they had to sell of land, it got choppy, roads broken… and now its just like the rest of mainland for the most part.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:26] Chilbo is sad

Moonrise Azalee [09:26] it was amazing once

Shep Titian [09:26] I’m talking to her

Bagheera Kristan [09:26] I’ve been exploring successful private communities… I think we could learn a lot from places like the Steampunks of New Babbage – 10 thriving sims

Rosie Gray [09:26] behaving like a spoilt teenager doesn’t anything

Bagheera Kristan [09:26] the Blake Sea Battles, who just added 5 sims

Rosie Gray [09:26] aren’t they all rp though, Bags?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:27] Oh btw, I have been asked to respond to an effort started to pull together community based sims.

Bagheera Kristan [09:27] ohyes, I guess maybe that’s it

Moonrise Azalee [09:27] as times change, public and social interests change and i really feel that rome is past its time. unless, .like said, its RP. Tuscany offers a richer beauty i think

Tor Karlsvalt [09:27] One question is to suggest other community members who can be contacted.

Rosie Gray [09:27] we can have renaissance builds in Tuscany!

Moonrise Azalee [09:27]

Pip Torok [09:27] yes … think of Renaissance art !!

Tor Karlsvalt [09:27] I thought of the RA, SC and guild members. Also people running for office this term.
[09:28] I will send you all a copy of my responce.
[09:28] response.

Moonrise Azalee [09:28] What exactly is it Tor?

Bagheera Kristan [09:28] true – I guess where I got stuck was outright stating “post-roman” since even today, you can see Roman era buildings

Tor Karlsvalt [09:28] Well it seems to be an effort forming among some community bases sims.
[09:28] based

Moonrise Azalee [09:29] like to have joint events etc?

Rosie Gray [09:29] I was taking the post-Roman to mean that the Roman buildings would be old
[09:29] Rosie Gray shuts up now

Bagheera Kristan [09:29] ah

Tor Karlsvalt [09:29] sort of an inter communication effort.

Moonrise Azalee [09:29] Moonrise Azalee grins
[09:29] ahh yes that makes sense

Tor Karlsvalt [09:29] Or at least promote eachother’s events.

Rosie Gray [09:29] sounds interesting, Tor

Moonrise Azalee [09:29] indeed yes

Tor Karlsvalt [09:30] I think we can have some Roman builds. Look at the Pantheon in Rome.
[09:31] That build survives to this day as a functioning building.

Lilith Ivory [09:31] I think we agreed on this theme as it is a way citizens don´t have to change their homes

Rosie Gray [09:31] Rosie Gray nods

Pip Torok [09:31] has anyone given thought to giving LA a new Italian name?

Rosie Gray [09:31] we would have to pay to rename the sim

Lilith Ivory [09:31] changing the name of a Sim costs some money

Bagheera Kristan [09:31] don’t you have to pay Linden

Tor Karlsvalt [09:31] Some people like the name.

Pip Torok [09:31] (or is that not possible?)

Bagheera Kristan [09:31] yes

Tor Karlsvalt [09:31] Nice place

Lilith Ivory [09:32] it´s possible but not cheap

Bagheera Kristan [09:32] have to be a compelling reason to spend the money

Shep Titian [09:32] OK folks .. order please

Pip Torok [09:32] well .. since i’m not bowled-over in the rush .. I’ll forget I said that !! :-]
Rosie Gray [09:33] ?

Bagheera Kristan [09:33]
Shep Titian [09:33] Moving on
[09:33] No reports
[09:33] Tor anything from the exec?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:34] yes
[09:34] Thank you Madam LRA
[09:35] I would like to point out that hippo shows occupancy at 88 percent

Shep Titian [09:35] Thats wonderful

Tor Karlsvalt [09:36] Also, talking to several of our new people, I think a Tuscan theame would be welcomed. One might even be interested in ing to build the new sim.
[09:37] Done

Shep Titian [09:37] THank you Tor
[09:37] No announcements
[09:37] So next RA meeting

Lilith Ivory [09:38] Lilith Ivory looks around and is sad to see none of the new citizens

Rosie Gray [09:38] Rosie Gray nods at Lil and agrees

Shep Titian [09:39] A number have said Lil that they love the sims .. mountains etc .. and are’nt here for politics but community
[09:39] Which is cool in my book

Moonrise Azalee [09:39] Moonrise Azalee notes that there are many anti-politic sorts these days

Rosie Gray [09:39]
Tor Karlsvalt [09:39] Well one may follow the other in time.

Moonrise Azalee [09:39] they come here to be stress free

Shep Titian [09:40] Yes Tor you’re right
[09:40] But they are happy to be here

Tor Karlsvalt [09:40] I have to say the shops on the quay were very nice.

Lilith Ivory [09:40] Lilith Ivory is not a very political person too

Shep Titian [09:41] Ok .. date

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] Moonrise Azalee grins

Shep Titian [09:41] Is two weeks ok
[09:41] or three .. getting close to the end

Ranma Tardis [09:41] nods

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] im good for two

Tor Karlsvalt [09:41] Yay!

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] or three, or whatever

Shep Titian [09:41] ok two weeks

Ranma Tardis [09:42] me too

Shep Titian [09:42] Sat 9th Nov at 8am

Tor Karlsvalt [09:42] Tor Karlsvalt needs to find someone to organize debates.

Moonrise Azalee [09:42]
Ranma Tardis [09:42]
Shep Titian [09:42] I propose we adjourn

Moonrise Azalee [09:42] second

Ranma Tardis [09:42] second
[09:43] aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:43] aye

Shep Titian [09:43] aye
[09:43] Finis
Chancellor

Permalink.

18th Representative Assembly (6)

RA Meeting 1 December 2012

Re: 1 December 2012 RA Transcript
by Tanoujin Milestone » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:51 pm
2012-12-01 11:24
Callipygian Christensen: I call to order the first meeting of the 18th Representative Assembly
Shep: Its in the box
Callipygian Christensen: As Dean it is not my place to deal with RA business, so I will begin with the first item of New business – the swearing in of the new RA
Ranma Tardis: grins
Callipygian Christensen: It is my privilege once again to administer the affirmation of office for the Representative Assembly
Callipygian Christensen: When I call your name, please type your affirmation of office into chat.
Callipygian Christensen: Shep Titian
Callipygian Christensen: Tanoujin Milestone
Tanoujin Milestone: I, Tanoujin Milestone, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Callipygian Christensen: Ranma Tardis
Shep: I Shep Titian having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Ranma Tardis: I Ranma Tardis having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help me God!
Callipygian Christensen: Congratulations and thank you to each of you for serving
Tanoujin Milestone: thank you!
Lilith Ivory applauds
Ranma Tardis: thank you
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
Pip Torok: yes yes yes for the CDS!!
Soro Dagostino: WOOOOOT!!!!
Callipygian Christensen: I believe you have asked Shep to stand as LRA so I will hand the chair of this meeting to her
Shep: )))
Pip Torok: CLAPS
Tanoujin Milestone: Thank you Calli.
Tanoujin Milestone: I nominate Shep Titian for Leader of the Representative assembly
Ranma Tardis: second
Tanoujin Milestone: are we quorate?
Shep: Good question .. I vote aye
Ranma Tardis: up to you Shep
Tanoujin Milestone: simple majority, 3 in attendance
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Ranma Tardis: aye
Tanoujin Milestone: Congrats, Shep, and thank you very much!
Sudane Erato: bravo Shep
Shep: thank you for your confidence
Tor Karlsvalt: bravo
Ranma Tardis: Congrats
Soro Dagostino: Hip, Hip, Hooray!!!
Lilith Ivory: Congrats Shep
Pip Torok: good on you, Shep !!!
Shep: Thanks guys
Shep: ok agenda
Ranma Tardis: got it someplace
Tanoujin Milestone: next point: volunteer someone for archivist – do you agree, Shep?
Shep: Ok Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: I volunteer to post the RA transcripts to forums > RA announcements, and passed legislation to forums > legislative discussion
Ranma Tardis: ok
Tanoujin Milestone: any objections?
Ranma Tardis: no
Shep: Can we confirm you are now archivist for this session of the RA?
Tanoujin Milestone: i would be glad about that
Sudane Erato: Agenda for the first meeting of the 18th RA on 1st Dec 2012 at 11.15 am SLT. Administrative Business – Review and approve agenda (5 min.) – Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min) – Citizen Concerns (5 min) – RA Members’ Concerns (5 min) – Old Business – New business… Swearing in of the 18th RA … Elect LRA… Confirm Tan as archivist… Arrange dates of next RA meetings and find times best for all to attend… Request the SC to call a by-election to fill remaining seat… – Commission Reports (5 min) – Executive Report (15 min) – General Announcements (5 min) – Next RA Meeting? (5 min) – Adjourn
Ranma Tardis: move to affirm Tan as archivists
Tanoujin Milestone: hehe, I say aye
Shep: It does’nt need a vote just a thank you Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: come on, i will do it – let us not be overly formal
Ranma Tardis: Shep?
Ranma Tardis: oh ok
Tanoujin Milestone: thank you!
Ranma Tardis: you have my support
Sudane Erato: bravo Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: If you allow, me, Shep? 3. Set meeting times for the 18th RA.
Lilith Ivory applauds
Shep: Yes go ahead
Tanoujin Milestone: slap me if i mess it up
Tanoujin Milestone: I move to fix the dates of the 18th RA meetings to the first saturday of a month, that is: 5th of Jan, 2nd of Feb, 2nd of Mar, 6th of Apr, 4th of May 2013.
Tanoujin Milestone: now we need a second
Shep: Yes those are fine with me
Ranma Tardis: second
Tanoujin Milestone: vote!
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Ranma Tardis: aye
Shep: We don’t usually vote on those either
Tanoujin Milestone: lol
Tanoujin Milestone: so, thank you
Ranma Tardis: grins
Shep: But what the hell aye
Tanoujin Milestone: am I railroading?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Shep: Only a very little lol
Tanoujin Milestone: ok, without voting now:
Tanoujin Milestone: I suggest to fix the time of the 18th RA meetings to 4:00 pm SLT and to review and discuss the topic again as soon as the vacant seat is filled to meet the needs of every representative as well as possible.
Ranma Tardis: nods
Shep: That is midnight for me
Ranma Tardis: too late?
Sudane Erato: yes
Tanoujin Milestone: I will adapt to any time, I just think of Razzy
Shep: I think we need to hear from her before deciding
Shep: Make the next meeting 4.00pm
Tanoujin Milestone: okay with me – as I said, just tell me the time when it is sorted out with Razzy
Shep: definately set the dates
Shep: and we’ll go from there
Ranma Tardis: ok with me
Tanoujin Milestone: yes, good!
Shep: ok thats done
Tanoujin Milestone: Fine, fine. Call a by election now?
Tanoujin Milestone: want my pompous text, or keep it simple?
Ranma Tardis: please do such
Shep: Calli how do you want the request for the bye election?
Tanoujin Milestone nods. Nice move
Callipygian Christensen: Just a request that we proceed is fine.
Shep: Tan .. would you like to be LRA?
Tanoujin Milestone: No, by all means, I want to be your aunty on the odd numbered days, like today
Callipygian Christensen: I have the relevant dates ready to post in for transcription
Shep: Then please officially .. would call a by election to fill our empty seat
Callipygian Christensen: The SC will proceed with the byelection. The Citizen List for the election was created form a census on Nov 18
Callipygian Christensen: The following dates are relevant:
Shep: Ok do we have an exec report?
Callipygian Christensen: Call for candidates: Dec 1
Deadline to declare: Dec 7
Campaigning: Dec 7 – 14
Polls open noon Saturday Dec 15 for 96 hours closing at 11.59 on Wednesday Dec 19
Any challenge to the Citizen List produced from the census must be received by the Dean, in a notecard, by noon SLT on Dec 2.
Anyone declaring as a candidate must do so in a notecard to the Dean, before 11.59 PM SLT on Dec 7.
Tanoujin Milestone: yes, Shep, it is there, posted on forums
Shep: No I meant for here and now Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3949&p=20225
Tanoujin Milestone: excuse me? A citizens list?
Shep: no words from the old Chancellor
Trebor Warcliffe: Ill save my words for the Ball
Pip TorokPip Torok raises hand
Shep: Treb … I want to thank you for the sterling work you did
Shep: Pip
Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
Sudane Erato: bravo Trebor
Callipygian Christensen: hear hear- thank you Trebor
Tanoujin Milestone: Trebor
Lilith Ivory: APPLAUSE!
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you.
Ranma Tardis: yes I want to second that
Pip Torok: Mme LRA I have a submission from Ria Boucher re Citizen List .. can I present it here?
Shep: I believe that is SC business
Pip Torok: ok ….
Pip Torok: shall pass that info to her
Shep: If I’m incorrect ???
Lilith Ivory: it might depend on the submission as the SC has to follow existing laws
Shep: I’ll talk to you later Pip
Callipygian Christensen: It is if it is a challenge
[i]Pip Torok realises that time exists to sort out this submission
Shep: Is it a challenge Pip?
Tanoujin Milestone: It is the decision of the SC, as far as I know, and there has to be a notecard dropped to the dean by the citizen *herself*
Pip Torok: i understand it as one mme LRA
Shep: Then yes .. a note to the dean
Callipygian Christensen: Then talk to me after please Pip
Pip Torok: yes
Tanoujin Milestone supresses her curiosity not to mess with SC duties
Shep: hahahahahahahahaha
Ranma Tardis: nods
Shep: I’m glad you’re both so keen
Shep: bodes well
Shep: Ok we have set the date of the next meeting
Shep: I propose we adjourn
Tanoujin Milestone: second
Shep: vote
Shep: aye
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Ranma Tardis: aye
2012-12-01 11:54

Permalink.

RA Meeting 5 January 2013

Re: 5 Jan 2013 RA Transcript
by Tanoujin Milestone » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:14 pm
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. calling the meeting to order
Shep (shep.titian): First agenda .. all ok with it ..
Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gaius
Shep (shep.titian): Hi G
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me waves!
Lilith Ivory: Hi Gaius
Soro Dagostino: Hello G.
Tanoujin Milestone: I am fine with the agenda
Ranma Tardis: am fine with it
Bagheera Kristan: yes, it is fine
Shep (shep.titian): Goods
Tanoujin Milestone: Bags, did you get the agenda?
Bagheera Kristan: yes, thank you
Bagheera Kristan: and it looks fine to me
Shep (shep.titian): I know Tor is here to speak on the budget .. and I think about the Schloss
Shep (shep.titian): any others who want floor time?
Sudane Erato: i’ll be happy to answer questions about the schloss proposal
Shep (shep.titian): Lovely .. thank you Sudane
Soro Dagostino: Raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): yes Soro
Soro Dagostino: Regarding the property of LA
Shep (shep.titian): ok not an agenda item but a couple have proffessed opinions .. I’ll give it time
Soro Dagostino: While I don’t see it, it has been discussed as part of budget.
Shep (shep.titian): It will be after the agenda items
Soro Dagostino: As you wish, Madame LRA.
Shep (shep.titian): whispers: Citizens concerns?
Shep (shep.titian): All the citizens are happy … good
Ranma Tardis: nods
Sudane Erato:
Rosie Gray: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Ra members concerns
Pip Torok: welcome Delia
Bagheera Kristan: I had wanted to mention LA as well
Rosie Gray: hi Delia
Soro Dagostino: Hello Delia
Lilith Ivory: Hi Delia
Ranma Tardis: think it will be covered in the agenda
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Bags .. we will set the nball rolling today
Bagheera Kristan: okay, I can wait
Bagheera Kristan: thank you
Delia Lake: /hi Rosie, Soro, Calli, Tor, Sudane, Lil…and everyone
Shep (shep.titian): Ok there being no old business
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Hi Delia!
Shep (shep.titian): New business .. and item 1 the Budget
Ranma Tardis: big item
Shep (shep.titian): Tor would you care to run through it briefly
Tor Karlsvalt: Sure
Shep (shep.titian): thank you
Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you Madam LRA. As you know, I have proposed a budget for the 18th Term. It is on the forum and located at the following link:
Tor Karlsvalt: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … scUE#gid=0. As noted we will have a deficit during the term but I will make every effort to increase revenue. First, let me note that the estate is not in any danger at this time. We shave considerable reserves in excess of $13K, USD. However we cannot merely bleed money without efforts to fix the problem CDS has. As noted already by Tan and others, Locus Amoenus is our weakest sim and is in need of attention.
Tor Karlsvalt: I assume most of you have reviewed the budget and I would like you to approve it without amendment. This so we can begin using money to generate traffic and carry on normal business.
Tor Karlsvalt: With regard to LA
Tor Karlsvalt: I have consulted with many already including the LRA.
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Bags
Tor Karlsvalt: Although I have a sense of where many people are with regard to LA, the LRA and myself suggest tht I hold several community meetings to gauge public opiniong.
Tor Karlsvalt: opinion.
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Tor I thought you’d finished
Tor Karlsvalt: I intend to hold meetings beginning no later than this Saturday.
Tor Karlsvalt: no not yet
Tanoujin Milestone: hear , hear – a regional meeting! Welcome
Shep (shep.titian): Tor can we stick to the budget for this bit
Tor Karlsvalt: I expect to have at least two, one early and probably one later in the week at a later time.
Tor Karlsvalt: well we can sure.
Tor Karlsvalt: it isall sort of connected. but sure
Shep (shep.titian): thanks I’ll put LA on at the end
Shep (shep.titian): Do we have any questions about the budget?
Bagheera Kristan: Is there a line item that covers the expense of showing parcels in search – the 30L/week per parcel? – or is that something that if we want it, we will need to add to the budget as a new item?
Tor Karlsvalt: No there isn’t.
Tor Karlsvalt: We could.
Tanoujin Milestone: me raises hand
Bagheera Kristan: as of right now, CDS is sorely missing in search because there are no parcels singled out to show in search
Bagheera Kristan: which, I think, is one reason we are not getting the attention we should
Tor Karlsvalt: There are technical problems with advertising like that.
Shep (shep.titian): After Bags Tan
Ranma Tardis: what problems?
Bagheera Kristan: I had written on the forums what I think would be both economical and effective in regards to that
Tor Karlsvalt: Well the land will show up on the SL land list anyway I believe. I know several people have told me they found us via that listing.
Bagheera Kristan: 1 parcel for each sim in CDS that shows in search, and that parcel would be optimized with name and description – probably each welcome kosk in each sim
Tor Karlsvalt: The technical problem is that I believe Rudeen must create the ad.
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me raises his hand.
Tor Karlsvalt: And it could be considerable cost if all our parcels are listed.
Shep (shep.titian): Well I expect after the discussions we could deal with the costs .. we can allocate a top up if needs be
Shep (shep.titian): Tan is waiting .. then you G
Bagheera Kristan: sure, it isn’t much, and I wouldn’t list all the parcels
Bagheera Kristan: done
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): thanks .. Tan?
Tanoujin Milestone: thank you – about the ads – we talk about 720 L$ right?
Shep (shep.titian): After G Soro
Tanoujin Milestone: Bags? 30 per month?
Tor Karlsvalt: right for one parcel.
Bagheera Kristan: 30/week per parcel – but I wasn’t meaning ALL the parcels in cds
Bagheera Kristan: week not month
Tanoujin Milestone: could you estimate how much is needed?
Tanoujin Milestone: 3000 L$?
Bagheera Kristan: 5 sims x 120/month = 600/month
Ranma Tardis: for 6 onths?
Shep (shep.titian): We don’t need details now
Bagheera Kristan: 3600 for six months
Bagheera Kristan: roughtly
Tanoujin Milestone: Bags, can we talk about that after the meeting?
Tanoujin Milestone: done
Bagheera Kristan: yes, of course
Bagheera Kristan: done
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Might I suggest that a special fund be made for those who apply to the executive to be given 30L/week or that amount per month so that they can put their parcels on search if they wish?
Shep (shep.titian): thank you .. G?
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): This could be beneficial for both vendors and for the CDS as a whole.
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
Shep (shep.titian): Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Is it required that all parcels for sale be listed?
Soro Dagostino: Or, can the Executive hold back on some?
Shep (shep.titian): It seems that it would be up to us to chose
Tor Karlsvalt: it is a fee based on parcel.
Bagheera Kristan: I’m sorry, I’ve opened a can of worms – no, that isn’ what I was proposing.
Ranma Tardis: frowns am confused
Bagheera Kristan: this was promoting CDS in general by the government
Soro Dagostino: I yeild to Bags.
Bagheera Kristan: Madame LRA, I can explain now or hold off and write up details in the forums
Soro Dagostino: And I agree that it is a benefit only to CDS
Shep (shep.titian): Okay .. I think that we will have tothink about ads another time
Bagheera Kristan: okay
Shep (shep.titian): I would like to propose that we assept and approve the Budget as given us by the Chancellor
Ranma Tardis: second
Bagheera Kristan: Aye
Shep (shep.titian): Vote
Ranma Tardis: aye
Shep (shep.titian): Aye
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Shep (shep.titian): You have it Tor .. well done
Rosie Gray: ··•°•··..☺ Applauds! ☺ ..··•°•··..
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy has a 7 day .. but it passed
Tanoujin Milestone: me raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Tan
Rosie Gray: Pip
Rosie Gray: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
Tanoujin Milestone: i would like to stress that I am not happy to approve such a deficit of more than 600 US$, but it is plausible
Tanoujin Milestone: but i am not in the mood to applaud it
Tanoujin Milestone: thanks, done
Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you all
Ranma Tardis: raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Yes well it is understood that none of us like it
Tor Karlsvalt: It is my hope we do not have such a deficit at the end of the term
Shep (shep.titian): so we need to solve it
Ranma Tardis: how?
Tanoujin Milestone: Working on LA – let us have that after the Schloss proposal, as the LRA suggested
Shep (shep.titian): That we need to work out Ran
Shep (shep.titian): ok moving on
Shep (shep.titian): The Schloss proposal
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Well, we won’t run into a deficit based upon the projected income. Just from the projects we may have, like Floralia.
Shep (shep.titian): Who wants to outline?
Tor Karlsvalt: Madam LRA
Tor Karlsvalt: Please let me begin.
Shep (shep.titian): Yes Tor?
Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you
Shep (shep.titian): you have the floor
Tor Karlsvalt: I am very pleased to encourage the building of a new Schloss as proposed by Sudane and Rosie.
Tor Karlsvalt: It will undoubtably add to the attraction of our sims and also be a more efficient use of our land and prims.
Tor Karlsvalt: at this time I would like to defer to Sudane or Rosie.
Tor Karlsvalt: thank you
Sudane Erato: ok… I will give details, if that helps
Shep (shep.titian): please Sudane
Rosie Gray: please, Sudane
Ranma Tardis: nods
Sudane Erato: the details of the proposal were put some weeks ago into the forum
Sudane Erato: but in essence
Sudane Erato: Rosie and I propose to offer our service to replace the Schloss
Sudane Erato: you, the RA, and the Chancellor… we request approval
Sudane Erato: if you appriove now
Sudane Erato: we will offer a list of inspirations… pictures and text
Sudane Erato: so you have some idea what we intend
Sudane Erato: at all times we are welcoming of ideas and suggestions
Sudane Erato: we will create a basic build… off site, so as not to load the sim
Sudane Erato: and then,
Sudane Erato: before doing anything with the old build
Shep (shep.titian): I’m assuming RA has final approval of the new building
Sudane Erato: we will again seek both yours and the Chancellors approval
Sudane Erato: we ask both the RA and the Chancellor
Sudane Erato: but we leave it to you all to figure out the exact authority
Shep (shep.titian): Do we have any questions RA?
Sudane Erato: in any case… no changes will be made to the existing structure
Bagheera Kristan: yes, please, I have a question
Tanoujin Milestone: A free donation, backup provided to Archive?
Sudane Erato: until you have approved the off site build
Shep (shep.titian): Bags
Tanoujin Milestone: sorry
Sudane Erato: yes… its a free donation
Bagheera Kristan: no, Tan, you just asked the question I was going to ask…
Ranma Tardis: Sundane how much is left of Kendra’s build?
Sudane Erato: one other note
Bagheera Kristan: First, I want to express my gratitude to Sudane and Rosie for this generous offer. I very much approve the idea of a new Schloss. I had one question, which is, will the original build be archived? Can it be? I would like to see that happen but whether it can or not, I will still approve the build of the new one.
Sudane Erato: the offsite build will be substantially complete… but not totally… as that is impractical until we are actually there in the final location
Sudane Erato: done
Shep (shep.titian): Ok thank you
Sudane Erato: the existing build
Sudane Erato: the prims are mostly by Samantha Fuller
Tor Karlsvalt: brb
Sudane Erato: with a few by Kendra, and me, Tor, lilith
Sudane Erato: Tor has sent a notecard to Samantha
Tanoujin Milestone: ah!
Sudane Erato: but i think that she has gone
Ranma Tardis: do wish it is returned not deleted
Sudane Erato: so i don’t think that it can be saved
Shep (shep.titian): Then I would like to propse that we allow Sudane and Rosie to replace the Schloss with a new building subject to final approval of the RA and Chancellor
Sudane Erato: well… whenever one “deletes” something owned by someone else
Sudane Erato: it is actually “returned”
Pip Torok /me raises hand
Callipygian Christensen /me raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Calli
Tor Karlsvalt: b
Callipygian Christensen: Since archiving whole is unlikely to be possible, perhaps a machinima and set of photos could be taken to keep as archives
Sudane Erato: that would be great!
Ranma Tardis: nods
Rosie Gray: ㋡
Soro Dagostino: Great idea
Bagheera Kristan: yes !
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): ㋡
Tanoujin Milestone: nice, yes
Pip Torok /me raises hand
Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea.
Tanoujin Milestone /me raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Tan
Tor Karlsvalt: We cold play it at the New Schloss.
Tanoujin Milestone: after Pip, if you allow, Chair?
Shep (shep.titian): Pip
Pip Torok: tku .. can we confirm that it is now standard practice to automatically archive new structures?
Pip Torok: done
Tanoujin Milestone: I think we can, Pip
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Tanoujin Milestone: may I?
Shep (shep.titian): It would seem to be so Pip but am not sure if it should be made a law
Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Tan was after Pip
Tanoujin Milestone: Tor, I want to second the LRA’s proposal – do you need more discussion or can it wait?
Tanoujin Milestone: Shep has proposed that we allow Sudane and Rosie to replace the Schloss with a new building subject to final approval of the RA and Chancellor. I second that.
Tor Karlsvalt: I only want to answer Pip’s question.
Tanoujin Milestone: me leans back
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Sudane Erato:
Ranma Tardis: lets vote
Shep (shep.titian): Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: Actually Pip it is the law
Shep (shep.titian): Good
Shep (shep.titian): Now vote
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Shep (shep.titian): Aye
Ranma Tardis: aye
Bagheera Kristan: aye
Tor Karlsvalt: The CDSArchive was established based on a law passed by the RA many years ago.
Sudane Erato: thank you!
Shep (shep.titian): The proposal is approved
Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
Pip Torok: CHEERS
Shep (shep.titian): Well done you two
Bagheera Kristan: yay !
Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
Lilith Ivory /me applauds
Rosie Gray: yay thank you everyone
Ranma Tardis: smiles
Tanoujin Milestone: This is truely euphorizing
Sudane Erato: it will be very exciting
Tanoujin Milestone: thank you!
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Woooo!
Delia Lake: This is great!
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me is listening to “Yes We Can”, too. What a coincidence!
Pip Torok: an excellent start to this term …..
Shep (shep.titian): A brief spot in our history lol
Tanoujin Milestone: only 5 years
Ranma Tardis: actually un like in agrement
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Rosie Gray: lol, Tan
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. lats open up the LA question and I remember Soro wanted to speak on it
Ranma Tardis: Sudane am sure y fellows would agree with your good works and our appreciation
Sudane Erato: thank you
Tanoujin Milestone: Just a quick one, may I?
Tanoujin Milestone: Shep?
Shep (shep.titian): Yes
Shep (shep.titian): Go ahead
Tanoujin Milestone: I want to thank you, Ranma, because I know you are in urban heritage protection and you made it easy for us – let us not forget we still have Kendra’s Rathaus – and I ask you all to protect it
Tanoujin Milestone: ty
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Tan
Ranma Tardis: thank you
Shep (shep.titian): I second Tan’s sentiments Ranma
Bagheera Kristan:
Sudane Erato: i’m very sorry to leave so quickly, but it is in the middle of my RL dinner hour, and my spouse has gotten very impatient
Bagheera Kristan: ty Sudane
Sudane Erato: thank you again!
Tor Karlsvalt: bye Sudane
Rosie Gray /me knows that feeling
Tanoujin Milestone: hehe, good appetite
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I must be going, as well.
Tor Karlsvalt: thank you
Rosie Gray: see you sudane
Pip Torok: bye Sudane
Shep (shep.titian): thank you for coming Sudane
Ranma Tardis: thank you for your appearance
Delia Lake: can’t have that! bye, Sudane
Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Goodbye everyone!
Rosie Gray: bye Guil!
Shep (shep.titian): Bye G
Pip Torok: bye Guillaume
Bagheera Kristan: bye
Lilith Ivory: bye all leaving
Rosie Gray /me sneaks off for 2 minutes to get some beer
Ranma Tardis: leaves LA
Shep (shep.titian): Seem,s the party is over lol
Tanoujin Milestone: lolo, yes, smells like work is starting
Bagheera Kristan: the Schloss was the big one
Ranma Tardis: yes
Shep (shep.titian): Yep
Pip Torok: well it seems to have had its “high”… :] Ranma Tardis: am very concerned about LA
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro do you still want to say something about LA?
Ranma Tardis: the residents there put so much effort into it
Soro Dagostino: Is it time for that?
Shep (shep.titian): Yes
Shep (shep.titian): Its a tag on for today
Soro Dagostino: My suggestion is that it be put to a a commission to look at what could be done.
Ranma Tardis: what to express my support for the residents of LA, they too have ah thinking
Soro Dagostino: Get the advice of the builders of CDS and see what consensus can be established.
Ranma Tardis: like my concern over neuf
Ranma Tardis: we are all in this toughter
Shep (shep.titian): We are indeed
Tanoujin Milestone /me raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Tan
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand higher
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Bags did I miss you
Bagheera Kristan: I can wait, but yes
Shep (shep.titian): then Bags
Bagheera Kristan: go ahead, Tan, please
Tanoujin Milestone: Soro, not sure we need a commission right now – i would like to have that regional meeting bc I want to know who wnats to invest and who wnats to build at LA
Soro Dagostino: raises hand.
Shep (shep.titian): Can I tell you it is gone 1 am here
Tanoujin Milestone: 2 am here (bragging)
Shep (shep.titian): Soro
Shep (shep.titian):
Pip Torok: (tks for reminding the others, Shep!:)
Soro Dagostino: The commission should include all those with an interest in the LA issues.
Tanoujin Milestone: Are you volunteering to chair a commission, Soro?
Shep (shep.titian): Ny only problem with commissions is they take forever and achieve nothing
Soro Dagostino: I am.
Ranma Tardis: have some faith
Tanoujin Milestone: In this case you have my support, as well as Tor has with the regional meeting
Ranma Tardis: mine as well
Pip Torok: (my thoughts entirely Shep .. I prefer Tor’s looser approach
Bagheera Kristan: (please let me know when it is my turn to speak)
Tanoujin Milestone: sorry Bags
Bagheera Kristan:
Soro Dagostino: Yield to Bags.
Soro Dagostino: sorry
Shep (shep.titian): Aww Bags I did cxall you but you said nothing sorry
Bagheera Kristan: thank you, this will take a moment to type…
Bagheera Kristan: sorry, I missed the call…
Shep (shep.titian): Bags go ahead
Bagheera Kristan: A little over a year ago, all the sims were full, LA included…
Bagheera Kristan: Each of the 5 sims has its own unique appeal, LA is a coastal semi-rural area, no other sim we have offers that
Bagheera Kristan: I love LA, and its view of the harbor & I believe others do as well…
Bagheera Kristan: I believe LA was the hardest hit by the political fallout of a year ago
Bagheera Kristan: I know some people who had been CDS residents for some years in CDS, made their homes in LA, and they left
Bagheera Kristan: I have personally been doing things to repopulate LA and becoming an RA seemed to be a way to be a better position to do some of those things, which had been stymied before
Bagheera Kristan: I would like to offer my knowledge and expertise in building traffic and getting “found”
Bagheera Kristan: specifically because I think that is all LA really needs
Bagheera Kristan: oh and one other thing
Bagheera Kristan: which I mentioned on the forums, which is there are large parcels in LA which are designated residential only
Bagheera Kristan: which can be a little off-putting because most people have a dream of some small commerce or creative outlet in SL
Bagheera Kristan: and residential only, without explanation, feels like a stranglehold perhaps
Bagheera Kristan: Thank you, I’m done
Ranma Tardis: Bag how can the RA help?
Shep (shep.titian): Thank Dags and for your offer too
Shep (shep.titian): Bags
Shep (shep.titian): Ok I’m moving on
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Bagheera Kristan: well, I made recommendations on the forums – specifically to use the search feature, which I saw from the earlier discussion, is not well understood
Bagheera Kristan: sorry, was typing
Ranma Tardis: nods
Tanoujin Milestone /me raises hand (after Soro)
Ranma Tardis: shaw we vote money?
Tanoujin Milestone: budget is done – let us solve that by donation
Bagheera Kristan: I would like to get with Tor, something he and I have discussed
Ranma Tardis: nods
Bagheera Kristan: mostly it is time and knowledge, which I am willing to offer
Tor Karlsvalt: ah donations.
Shep (shep.titian): I think it will be good to gettogether with Tor as he suggested and have an open meeting .. thank you Soro for your offer which may still get taken up:)
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro
Tor Karlsvalt: Just a plug, but there are donation bowls at the harbor, amphitheater and in front of the Kirche
Tor Karlsvalt: In the kirche also
Soro Dagostino: I yield to the appointment of Bags as chair.
Bagheera Kristan: smiles we are all in this together
Ranma Tardis: grins
Shep (shep.titian): Yes lol
Tanoujin Milestone: excuse me Soro? I did not get that, could you paraphrase please?
Soro Dagostino: I offered to chair a commission or other study group.
Shep (shep.titian): Tor when can you do the first meeting do you think .. while people are hjere to say if they can attend
Soro Dagostino: I yield that to Bags.
Tor Karlsvalt: I am shooting for Next Saturday Morning.
Tor Karlsvalt: Probably have several
Tanoujin Milestone /me raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Perfect — I can’t be there!
Shep (shep.titian): Morning being what SLT?
Soro Dagostino: LOL
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Tor Karlsvalt: well I will have one some evening
Tor Karlsvalt: I would say slt 7
Shep (shep.titian): am?
Tor Karlsvalt: yea
Lilith Ivory: yikes
Bagheera Kristan: ouch
Bagheera Kristan: LOL
Tor Karlsvalt: BTW, eveyone welcome Anit Wirefly
Tor Karlsvalt: a new LA resident
anti Wirefly: hello ◕‿◕
Bagheera Kristan: welcome Anit !
Lilith Ivory: Hi Anti
Shep (shep.titian): Hell man Brit here .. plus Pip .. two german
Rosie Gray: welcome Anti
Tanoujin Milestone: anti! Thanks for attending
Delia Lake: welcome, Anti
anti Wirefly: thanks so much ◕‿◕
Tor Karlsvalt: well I can have two meeings back to back that day
Tor Karlsvalt: and one during the week
Shep (shep.titian): Hi Anti
Tor Karlsvalt: some evening tho
Shep (shep.titian): ok we’ll wait to hear
Tor Karlsvalt: thank you
Shep (shep.titian): There are no commission reports .. no exec report . no announcements…
Shep (shep.titian): Next meeting is Saturday 2nd of Feb
Tanoujin Milestone: let us fix a time of day
Ranma Tardis: alright
Bagheera Kristan: groundhog day
Rosie Gray: hehe
Tanoujin Milestone: is it? Lol
Pip Torok: oh no!!!
Shep (shep.titian): I’ll fit in with you lot
Bagheera Kristan: anytime if fine with me
Tanoujin Milestone: same time?
Bagheera Kristan: is*
Shep (shep.titian): Yes lets do 4 again
Tanoujin Milestone: to give Razzy a chance?
Bagheera Kristan: sounds good
Ranma Tardis: nods
Tanoujin Milestone: great
Shep (shep.titian): ok feb 2nd at 4pm SLT
Shep (shep.titian): I propose we adjourn
Tanoujin Milestone: second
Bagheera Kristan: aye
Ranma Tardis: aye
Shep (shep.titian): vote aye
Tanoujin Milestone: aye

Tanoujin Milestone
Passionate Protagonist

Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:42 pm
Location: Locus Amoenus

Permalink.

RA Meeting 02 February 2013

Agenda for RA meeting of Saturday 2th Feb 2013 at 4pm

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business: none …

– New Business

1) Amendment of the Citizens’ Information Act …

2) With the prospect of changes to LA … should we take the opportunity for a big clean up on all sims ?

3) When does ‘Spring’ begin? Should we set out a time tabled seasonal change?

– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:
1. Bags reported on her LA promotion campaign and volunteered to post RA meetings to the SL event calendar
2. Tan announced to update CDSL17-01 (Notification Act) as amended on 4 Aug 2012 and suggested to review it, along with CDSL13-01 (PIT Act), NL4-26 (PIO Act) and NL5-15 (monthly citizens list). She promised to propose a law dealing with information policy in general and to start a corresponding legislative discussion on the forums.
3. The LRA recommended to clean up the sims. The Chancellor reported and accepted several detailed suggestions.
4. The LRA alleged a citizen’s request to fix the dates of seasonal changes. The Chancellor expanded on that topic and assured to get in touch with the petitioner.
5. Tor reported on the LA regional meetings viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3982 and mentioned the project to offer high quality prefabs there.
6. The RA agreed to meet again on 3rd of March 1pm in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova

<hr>

Bagheera Kristan: Not today, no
Lilith Ivory: Hi Tan 🙂
Moonrise Azalee: she just logged on
Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Tan!
Moonrise Azalee: waves at Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: my apologies
Shep Titian: Aha
Bagheera Kristan: Hi Tan 🙂
Shep Titian: Hi Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: hi Razzy 🙂
Shep Titian: Agenda in the box
Moonrise Azalee: Hi
Moonrise Azalee: grins
Shep Titian: Ok
Shep Titian: All approve the agenda?
Bagheera Kristan: aye
Tanoujin Milestone: yes, I do
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Shep Titian: Good
Shep Titian: Speakers on todays items .. Tan will speak on the amencment idea
Tanoujin Milestone: yes, ty
Shep Titian: Ok any citizens concerns?
Shep Titian: Thats like that bit in a wedding
Shep Titian: ok
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Shep Titian: RA any concerns?
Callipygian Christensen: /mr raises her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: my SL is iffy so I may have missed it..did a notice go out that the meeting is happening now?
Tanoujin Milestone: o_O
Shep Titian: Ah no it did’nt .. I sent one last night
Lilith Ivory: I did not get one too
Shep Titian: But can send another
Callipygian Christensen: I think it helps..people forget from last night..heck..I can forget within a few hours lol
Tanoujin Milestone: errmmm, yeees, possible 😉
Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory smiles and nods
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Bagheera Kristan: or I can wait 🙂
Shep Titian: Go ahead bags ,,, this thing cleared itself wen I added a LM
Bagheera Kristan: okay, I wanted to give an update on the chariot races I held
Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
Bagheera Kristan: I held them a couple weeks ago in Locus Amoenus with the underlying intent to draw new people here
Bagheera Kristan: I spammed my own friends list – LOL – so they showed up, but a couple of them had never been to CDS and one of them remarked how pretty Locus Amoenus is…
Bagheera Kristan: she is a blogger, she helps promote my shop, and she volunteered to also promote LA
Bagheera Kristan: on her own initiatve
Bagheera Kristan: we also got two totally new people who found us from the Second Life calendar
Bagheera Kristan: so, although no one actually completed a race – LOL – I felt it was a success and intend to do more, also, on a side note
Tanoujin Milestone: fantastic!
Bagheera Kristan: I want to encourage people to put events happening in CDS onto the calendar at secondlife.com
Bagheera Kristan: this meeting, would be a good example of something that should be on there
Bagheera Kristan: okay, done 🙂
Moonrise Azalee: nods
Shep Titian: Would you like to add them to it Bags?
Shep Titian: Its a good idea
Bagheera Kristan: I would be happy to 🙂
Shep Titian: :)) excellent .. then in the future please do
Bagheera Kristan: okay, great! I will. Thank you
Shep Titian: Ok moving on .. no old business this time
Shep Titian: So New business
Shep Titian: All we have today are the beginnings of ideas .. but beginn9ing with an amendment
Shep Titian: Tan are you ready?
Tanoujin Milestone: yes, thank you
Tanoujin Milestone: my apologies again, i have stolen your time
Tanoujin Milestone: I will try to make it good. i have a little speech ready
Tanoujin Milestone: i suggest i tell you what i think and we postpone discussion to the forums,
Tanoujin Milestone: are you all fine with that?
Shep Titian: Go ahead
Tanoujin Milestone: ty
Bagheera Kristan: 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: let me give you short history of the Citizen Notification Act
Moonrise Azalee: nods
Tanoujin Milestone: The Dean requested the RA
1. to rule on timing when new laws come into effect
2. To review NL4-26 Public Information Act
This was discussed at RA 16 Jun 2012
Tanoujin Milestone: Pat posted a straw man proposal from 27 Jun 2012
Tanoujin Milestone: with a preamble
Tanoujin Milestone: :
Tanoujin Milestone: Preamble
Citizens have a right to expect some notification of changes that will affect them. Similarly, citizens also have a responsibility to check official channels and raise concerns about changes which will affect them in a timely fashion. This Act sets out the expectations for both Government branches and citizens.
Tanoujin Milestone: well
Tanoujin Milestone: on 30 Jun 2013 the RA amended the time frame to 30d, accidentally left out the preamble and passed it as CDSL17-01. Razzy suggested to improve accessibility by using the portal too.
Tanoujin Milestone: are you still with me?
Shep Titian: Yes
Bagheera Kristan: yes
Tanoujin Milestone: ty
Tanoujin Milestone: Gwyn critzised the missing preamble on the forums thread.
Tanoujin Milestone: On 14 Jul 2012 at a inquorate meeting the LRA pointed to the cause of the legislation: it was CDSL16-03 Citizen Establishment Act section 3 which declares parcels deeded to private groups illegal.
Tanoujin Milestone: that took us into trouble..hence the law
Tanoujin Milestone: On 4 Aug 2012 the RA passed two amendments to the law:
3. This Act shall not apply to notice of meetings provided that any action taken at the meeting is ineffective for thirty days under this Act to allow citizen comment and requests for revision
4. This Act shall apply only to general, public actions, and not to private actions (such as covenant enforcement and foreclosure for not paying tier)
Tanoujin Milestone: sigh
Tanoujin Milestone: Yes, it passed, and again, without preamble. The amendments were not filed to the code of law.
Tanoujin Milestone: A short personal passage. I have not been archivist then, and when I became archivist, I did not volunteer to update the forum. That was accepted. I think there is no law forcing me to do it. Looks like I can do whatever I see fit.
Tanoujin Milestone: But on the other hand, what are the consequences? Okay, I have asked the former archivist to continue to post to the portal. He did not do it. Well. I will ask the designated guild master to give me a class. And I will post that darn amendments.
Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: But my recommendation would be:
Tanoujin Milestone: wipe the #3 and #4 and put Pat’s preamble on top. Please consider until next time, and let us discuss it in-between on the forums.
Tanoujin Milestone: But let us have a look at the topic announced in the agenda now: I suggested we amend the Citizen Information Act. So, everything I said before looks a bit off topic. Really?
Tanoujin Milestone: If the Citizen Information Act was about informing the citizens, as the title suggests, it would not be off topic. But in fact: it is. What is the Citizen Information Act?
Tanoujin Milestone: It is NL5-15, stating it was the EO’s duty to publish a citizen list once per month. Once per month! Are you aware you have to check 220 parcels inworld to meet that requirement?
Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: are you with me?
Bagheera Kristan: yes
Tanoujin Milestone: ty
Tanoujin Milestone: I suggest we repeal NL5-15, keeping in mind our names are public knowledge. Next time? Discussion on forums?
Razzy: yes
Tanoujin Milestone: But that is not what the Dean asked for on 16 Jun 2012! She asked to review the Public Information act. That is CDSL13-01. That law establishes a public information team. That team deals with calendars, event notes, inworld kiosks, magazines, handouts, all regarding to actions, policies and history of the government, and the chancellor responsible to keep it current “at all times”.
Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: sorry
Tanoujin Milestone: no, it is the wrong law.
Tanoujin Milestone: We wanted to talk about NL4-26 Public Information Act. That introduces the role of the PIO. We are having no PIO at the moment. We will not pay 1000 L$ to her. And we will not let the chair of a private organization appoint her, right? The PIO, btw, is responsible for a public relation campaign.
Tanoujin Milestone: okay… three statements and I am done
Tanoujin Milestone: 1. The principle of publicity and the scattered single requirements of notification are not sufficient. We need a central law on information policy which provides a basic framework of requirements and criteria, avoiding the mistake to get lost in outdating technical and personal details.
Tanoujin Milestone: 2. What we need now is a panorama of all legislation connected to the public information issue and the current practice, which could be improved using state of the art technology. Again, it has to be doable and enforceable on the executive level, let us listen to people who are at home in the technical aspects.
Shep Titian: WOW
Tanoujin Milestone: 3. Information is the act to transmit content in order to have an effect. The community handles information to realize obligations and goals, to meet fundamental needs of social coexistence and to use it as an instrument of power and organization.;)
Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe
Tanoujin Milestone: Let us find out what the real limitations are regarding effort, proportionality, protection of data, exceptions and absorbing capacity of the target group. And let us call a spade a spade in the future.
Tanoujin Milestone: Thanks for your attention.I am looking forward to a lively forums discussion
Tanoujin Milestone: done
Bagheera Kristan: much to think about, thank you Tan
Shep Titian: Thank you Tan … I think
Bagheera Kristan: LOL !
Tanoujin Milestone: thank you!
Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep Titian: Ok well that is going to be interestring .. and my own view in reaction is scrub what exists and get it right .. then leave it alone
Shep Titian: Calli please
Callipygian Christensen: I think I am the dean in question there so just a couple of things – while I may have specified and law, I dont recall doing so..
Tanoujin Milestone: well, it is on the record
Callipygian Christensen: what I did ask was that something be put in place to avoid having the Chancellor required to send out 120 notecards asking citizens to comply with a law, in case they dont bother reading forums or notices
Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: that would still be my main concern, as a citizen, that the Cancellor or anyone else not bear the burden of responsibility that wach citizen should carry for themself
Shep Titian: After Calli Tor
Callipygian Christensen: so that is my only comment..whatever you change or create, please ensure that is in place
Callipygian Christensen: done
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
Tor Karlsvalt: a couple of things
Tor Karlsvalt: In the past with hippo rollout the RA
Tor Karlsvalt: asked that the Exec notify all citizens
Tor Karlsvalt: this was done via the forum and notices and posters near tier box temples.
Tor Karlsvalt: then the effective date was in the future to allow all to be notified.
Tor Karlsvalt: I might add that we still had problems.
Tor Karlsvalt: second
Tor Karlsvalt: Group notices are about the only method we know is common to all citizens
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Tor Karlsvalt: Even there however, the new viewers make these less effective
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Shep Titian: I agree with you there Tor
Shep Titian: and thanks
Tor Karlsvalt: shure
Tor Karlsvalt: sure*
Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen has to be afk due to the dinner thing
Tanoujin Milestone: good appetite, Calli
Shep Titian: Enjoy
Tor Karlsvalt: ok callie
Bagheera Kristan: *raises hand higher
Shep Titian: Ok well Tan could you start a seperate thread in the forum on the subject ?
Shep Titian: Sorry Bags
Tanoujin Milestone: yes Ma’m
Shep Titian: Go ahead hun
Bagheera Kristan: just a thought – the one thing citizens have
Bagheera Kristan: is they have to pay tier. In real life, when I pay my HOA, I pick up the HOA newsletter, would it be feasible for paying tier to result in receiving a notecard and/or…
Bagheera Kristan: one weakness with “signs” is they are graphics, which mean if they haven’ rezzed, you dn’t know what you are missing
Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
Bagheera Kristan: but a box that distributes notecards and everyone knows to touch it would a) keep things in world and b) not be missed
Shep Titian: I don’t know the hippo posibilities
Bagheera Kristan: just a thought, i will take the rest to the forums
Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
Shep Titian: Yes cool thanks ..
Bagheera Kristan: ty 🙂
Shep Titian: Ok moving on …
Shep Titian: If we are considering changes to LA .. should we take the opportunity to clean up bits on all the sims
Shep Titian: There are pathways that lead only to a sim edge on the mountain
Bagheera Kristan: ah, residual from AA, probably. I cleaned up some of that in CN
Shep Titian: There are old insula for sale with 2 prims available
Razzy nods
Tanoujin Milestone: oh, wow
Shep Titian: No one is going to buy them
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Shep Titian: Bags
Bagheera Kristan: I would think the thing to do mgiht not be “one big clean up” but to encourage people to speak out when they notice some of the things like you have mentioned and we can fix them as we discover their existence?
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: Yes I agree .. I wanted to test people’s appetite for the job
Bagheera Kristan: okay, yes, done 🙂
Shep Titian: Some are VERY sentimental 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
Tor Karlsvalt: I sort of agree with Bags
Tor Karlsvalt: at the moment we have already started
Tor Karlsvalt: I needed a house for the cardo as a prior owner deleted it and I could not get the copy from Jon
Tor Karlsvalt: Tan was good to commission Lil to build two new houses for the Cardo and donate them to the CDS
Shep Titian: Thats cool
Tor Karlsvalt: We could follow a similar pattern, however I agree we have to be sensitive to the traditional look of CN
Shep Titian: I did’nt know
Shep Titian: We maybe should know
Tor Karlsvalt: I also think we can work on that road you referenced.
Shep Titian: Yes that would be good
Tor Karlsvalt: However we are a bit extended with the Schloss and proBably LA
Tor Karlsvalt: but the road thing, might be minimal and truly would give NFS some prims
Shep Titian: Yes … that would
Tor Karlsvalt: then Rosie myself and Tan have been deprimming where we could
Tor Karlsvalt: the soccer field was reduced by more than 20 prims.
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Shep Titian: THe centre of CN is where the old builds are with no prim
Tor Karlsvalt: ok
Tor Karlsvalt: I have to look at that
Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone coughts
Tor Karlsvalt: I just pulled an old prim out of a wall today.
Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone raises hand
Tor KarlsvaltTor Karlsvalt throws Tan a coughdrop
Tanoujin Milestone: 😉
Shep Titian: Rosie and I were looking yesterday …
Shep Titian: Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: the superflues road at NFS, is it the right of way?
Tanoujin Milestone: just curious
Tor Karlsvalt: It is a road to nowhere
Shep Titian: Just leads to a drop off
Tanoujin Milestone: notheast, yes
Tanoujin Milestone: hmmm
Tor Karlsvalt: just extends past a x-roads and leads to NFS East
Tor Karlsvalt: or south
Tor Karlsvalt: 🙂
Shep Titian: Someone wanted to join two parcels it was in the middle .. I think they moved elsewhere
Shep Titian: But it was a good point
Shep Titian: Ok .. I think we know we can reoprt things and they may get changed 😀
Shep Titian: Moving on
Tor Karlsvalt: we try
Shep Titian: This was requested by Rosie … When should Spring begin ?
Tor Karlsvalt: ah
Shep Titian: And shMoonrise Azaleeould we timetable our seadons?
Shep Titian: seasons
Moonrise Azalee: February! lol
Moonrise Azalee: is so sick of winter
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Shep Titian: lol
Bagheera Kristan: I think that has been the purvue of the current exec in the past
Tor KarlsvaltTor Karlsvalt just notes that the ground hog says we have six more weeks of winter.
Bagheera Kristan: in real life, seasons are not fixed – LOL !
Shep Titian: NOoooooooooooooooooooooo
Bagheera Kristan: but I’m in California, IRL, so I know nothing of this seasons of which you speak
Shep Titian: LOL
Tanoujin Milestone: you don’t miss anything but a running nose and cold feet
Shep Titian: No Bags in fact more changeable than ever
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, bags is correct it was usually an exec decision.
Tor Karlsvalt: Usually we plan for March
Tor Karlsvalt: probably earlier than later in March
Tor Karlsvalt: that has been traditional.
Tor Karlsvalt: Not that it can’t change tho.
Moonrise Azalee: Guess it depends on where one is from – ones idea of when spring is
Shep Titian: Well really the lower sims should melt first 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: We can do that
Moonrise Azalee: We have crocuses 🙂 –
Bagheera Kristan: LOL !
Moonrise Azalee: agrees with Shep
Tor Karlsvalt: Actually, this year we tried to have less snow in LA
Shep Titian: Ok well this is’nt exercizing anyone much lol
Bagheera Kristan: there is some history behind this, originally CDS came about in part because SL wanted snow sims to compete with other MMorPGS
Shep Titian: I’ll tell Rosie to ask Tor 😀
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe, good one
Tor Karlsvalt: I think one year we were very late
Tor Karlsvalt: that got people mad when winter ran into late March.
Tor Karlsvalt: My plan was the first weekend of March btw
Moonrise Azalee: Is there a real place we are basing our climate on?
Moonrise Azalee: if so, would we be in sync with that?
Shep Titian: Yes .. people suffer from SAD
Tor Karlsvalt: Gee they had this argument years ago
Bagheera Kristan: I apologize, I need to excuse myself – IRL
Tor Karlsvalt: I think the problem is CN is technically Colonge Germany
Tor Karlsvalt: ok
Moonrise Azalee: wasn’t here years ago
Shep Titian: Everything goes around inb circles Tor
Moonrise Azalee: ahh
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Tor Karlsvalt: yes
Shep Titian: Ok Bags
Bagheera Kristan: thank you
Tor Karlsvalt: but then CN and LA are one the same latitude if you will
Moonrise Azalee: Bye Bags 🙂
Moonrise Azalee: waves
Tanoujin Milestone: oh, leaving? See you!
Tor Karlsvalt: I will get with Rosie, see what her thoughts are.
Shep Titian: Ok well we’ll leave that for now ..
Shep Titian: Ummm I thought I said .. nevermind
Tor Karlsvalt: np
Shep Titian: Ok no commissions to report
Tanoujin Milestone: ahhhh, exec! Me claps her hands 😀
Shep Titian: Exec .. do you need to report anything Tor? 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: sure
Tor Karlsvalt: I can be brief.
Shep Titian: cool
Shep Titian: You have the floor
Tor Karlsvalt: I held 3 meetings on LA redevelopment
Tor Karlsvalt: the transcripts and a summary are posted to the forum.
Tor Karlsvalt: I suggest we all just go there to read about the meeting
Tor Karlsvalt: I think however we will have some proposals, but probably want to see how the newly constituted Guild can consider plans for LA and RA approval
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Moonrise Azalee: ooh, just a sec
Tor Karlsvalt: oh one more thing sorry
Shep Titian: Razzy?
Moonrise Azalee: k back
Moonrise Azalee: sorry
Moonrise Azalee: son was leaving
Shep Titian: Ok lol
Tor Karlsvalt: I should note that one great idea that came out of the meetings was that CDS should provide high quality prefabs for new citizens.
Moonrise Azalee: Thats a good idea
Tor Karlsvalt: Several of the people at the meeting, all good builders, were interested in helping with this.
Tanoujin Milestone: thats great, we need that
Tor Karlsvalt: I think that is it so far. I would like people to read the forums.
Tor Karlsvalt: let me put the link in the chat
Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3982
Shep Titian: Thanks Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: yw
Shep Titian: Ok no announcements
Shep Titian: I want to change next RA meeting to the Sunday
Shep Titian: 3rd March
Moonrise Azalee: smiles
Tanoujin Milestone: exotic 🙂 I am fine with it
Moonrise Azalee: time?
Tanoujin Milestone: same?
Shep Titian: What is the best time 4 pm is too late for Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: or what would you prefer?
Moonrise Azalee: 1pm?
Shep Titian: 1 pm is much better
Tanoujin Milestone: better later, wait, 4 pm that s 1 am monday…
Tanoujin Milestone: let us say: 7 pm
Shep Titian: Ok Sunday March 3rd at 1pm SLT
Moonrise Azalee: 7pm is too late for me
Tanoujin Milestone: fine, fine
Moonrise Azalee: putting small children to bed at that time
Moonrise Azalee: I spoke to Ran
Shep Titian: 7 pm?
Tanoujin Milestone: forget it, it is okay
Shep Titian: thats the middle of the night?
Moonrise Azalee: and asked about sunday afternoon and she said it was okay… so Im thinking 1pm would be okay, or 2pm
Tanoujin Milestone: 1pm, is okay
Tanoujin Milestone: really
Shep Titian: Ok we leave it as stated
Shep Titian: cool
Shep Titian: I move to adjourn
Tanoujin Milestone: second
Shep Titian: vote
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 03 March 2013

Agenda for RA meeting of Sunday 3rd of March 2013

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)

– Old Business

Are we ready for the new Schloss to be put in place?

– New Business

For discussion today ….

1) … should we take the opportunity for a big clean up on all sims ? Including using CH to save prims….
2)… How would people feel about joining some smaller parcels to make bigger ones?
3)… Is anyone up for leading a committee to go through the sims highlighting where savings can be made and where sim layout can be improved? It’s a big and detailed job …..

– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:
1. Bags offered to fix the Locus Amoenus landing point and Sudane promised Rudeen’s support, further discussion was postponed.
2. The new Schloss was approved to move to the permanent location. Ayes: Shep, Bags, Razzy, Tan
3. Shep suggested to have a commission review all CDS Sims, Bags volunteered to chair it.
4. Tor reported on the new citizens, building activities and the use of convex hull.
5. The RA agreed to meet again on 7th April at 1 pm in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

Shep Titian: Ok … calling the meeting to order
Shep Titian: We begin with the usual
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy laughs at pip
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy nods and listens
Shep Titian: Approve agenda … any problems?
Pip Torok: none here
Bagheera Kristan: I am fine with it
Tanoujin Milestone: Agenda is fine to me
Moonrise Azalee: approved
Pip Torok: EXCEPT “CH” ???
Moonrise Azalee: (with me)
Bagheera Kristan: oh yes! that’s right, what is CH?
Bagheera Kristan: convex hull?
Sudane Erato: Church
Tanoujin Milestone: Convex Hull, a prim saver
Pip Torok: ah!!!
Shep Titian: Sorry Convex Hull
Pip Torok: thus are acronyms given birth …
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Shep Titian: Lol
Bagheera Kristan: LOL!
Shep Titian: Ok
Shep Titian: Speakers .. only missing Tor for exec report
Shep Titian: Citizens concers??
Tanoujin Milestone: Since Ranma is not there I would like to adopt her motion
Tanoujin Milestone: on the Schloss topic
Shep Titian: Any problems?
Shep Titian: ok RA concerns? any ?
Bagheera Kristan: yes
Shep Titian: Bags
Bagheera Kristan: I had been talking with Tor about this, I wanted to fix the landing point for center of sim for LA and CN
Bagheera Kristan: I had given Tor information on how to do this but Sudane also needs to be in the discussion
Bagheera Kristan: also there is at least one public parcel in LA with a forced landing point which is detrimental to visitors
Shep Titian: Yes the CN one is a walk from the info centre
Bagheera Kristan: the goal is to keep people from landing in a bad spot if they tp in from the big map
Bagheera Kristan: CN lands in Arria’s house, LA lands you underwater in the center of the river
Sudane Erato: good for mermaids
Bagheera Kristan: I had figured out solutions, but realized I needed to let people know what was going on – in LA, in the winter, you get stuck under the ice
Tor Karlsvalt: hi all, Sudane 🙂
Tanoujin Milestone: i encountered this, you are right, Bags
Shep Titian: Hi Tor
Pip Torok: yes .. otherwise itll give LA a bad name …
Bagheera Kristan: so I just wanted to mention I had been paying attention to this and had thought of solutions, and wasnt’ sure what I should do to get them implemented except talk to Tor, which I have done – 🙂 hi Tor – and he and I agreed we needed Sudane’s help to go further
Shep Titian: Who needs to change them?
Sudane Erato: if you need to (or Rudeen) to do something… np at all… just give instructions, since i’m not very knowledgeable about Landing Points
Bagheera Kristan: okay, thank you Sudane 🙂 it requires a bit of reparceling
Bagheera Kristan: we can talk about it after, if that’s alrigth with everyone
Sudane Erato: np, if necessary
Bagheera Kristan: okay, I’m done 🙂
Bagheera Kristan: thank you
Tor Karlsvalt: We need to create a small strip of a parcel to connect the center cooridnate to say the meeting circle.
Shep Titian: Thanks Bags
Tor Karlsvalt: or maybe an Agora
Shep Titian: that would be off putting
Shep Titian: Ok next
Shep Titian: The new Schloss building
Bagheera Kristan: lovely job on the build !
Sudane Erato: ty 🙂
Shep Titian: I hope most have bneen to see it .. its coming on a treat 🙂
Moonrise Azalee: I love it. Very awesome
Tor Karlsvalt: yes! great job
Pip Torok: did sudane pick up on the suggestion for tapestries?
Callipygian Christensen: Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep Titian: Calli
Sudane Erato: we are experimenting with tapestries, yes
Pip Torok: tks .. 🙂
Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone rises hand
[b]Callipygian Christensen: The schloss build does look great, but one question re – the proposal (motion?) Ranma posted
Shep Titian: After Calli Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: sure
Shep Titian: I have’nt pocked that up Calli
Callipygian Christensen: It speaks of approving the build at the appropriate time, but I thought approval is something planned for before themove?
Callipygian Christensen: because once the old schloss goes, it’s gone I think – no putting it back
Tanoujin Milestone: Tanoujin Milestone bites her lips
Shep Titian: No it was always stated it could’nt be finished off site
Sudane Erato: the original proposal suggested that in order to do the move, the RA and Chancellor would approve the build in its unfinished state
Sudane Erato: of course, more finishing will be needed
Sudane Erato: but
Callipygian Christensen: Yes , I know Shep..but wasnt the idea that people basically approve it in progress then move it for the final pieces?
Sudane Erato: you can’t change your mind after the old one is removed
Callipygian Christensen: yes, what Sudane said
Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, the old schloss will be gone forever.
Tor Karlsvalt: We have saved only small parts of it.
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Shep Titian: Yes .. but as buildings are essentially under exec decisions RA is really only a tiken in this
Shep Titian: Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: fine. Ranma suggested on the forums we give the replacement a nod – may I post it here in chat for discussion
Tanoujin Milestone: ?
Shep Titian: Yes go ahead
Tanoujin Milestone: Subject to the approval of the CDS Chancellor the old build in Neufreistadt know as “Schloss” be removed and replaced by Rosie Gray and Sudane Erato. Understanding the new Schloss needs to be moved to its final site before being finished. Approval of the final build would be made at the correct time. The Representational Assembly commends the selfless acts of Rosie Gray and Sudane Erato in making this project possible.
Shep Titian: Bags
Bagheera Kristan: I would like to propose that – unless this causes a hardship on Sudane, who I know has donated the building site…
Bagheera Kristan: that we delay the move at least another week and/or – the underlying reason – there was talk of creating a photographic or machinanime of the original and ahs that happened yet?
Pip Torok: I propose a small drafting amendment : representatives’ instead of Representational …
Bagheera Kristan: are people satisfied they have preserved the memory enough? do they need more time?
Shep Titian: No it has’nt
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Shep Titian: No one seems to have the stomach for it
Shep Titian: Sudane
Sudane Erato: regarding timing
Sudane Erato: there is nothing intrinsic here, except to do it as soon as possible… so
Callipygian Christensen: I have taken pictues but I dont do machinima
Sudane Erato: i agree that if people feel they have no yet fully docuemnted the old build
Sudane Erato: they we can wait
Tanoujin Milestone: Tanoujin Milestone raises hand
Sudane Erato: my concern now was just to get the go ahead from the RA and chancellor
Shep Titian: People have had plenty of time Sudane
Lilith Ivory: I´ve taken a few pictures too but didn´t have the time to take more
Sudane Erato: we’ll be happy to wait until photos and videos are finished
Sudane Erato: done
Bagheera Kristan: I would like to propose that we wait at least a week from the time of approval before the move begins, so people who maybe were delaying, realize they’d better get moving if they care to get their photos in
Shep Titian: Thank you
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy nods
Tanoujin Milestone: though
Tanoujin Milestone: i strongly recommend
Tanoujin Milestone: we approve the Schloss in its state ready for the move today
Shep Titian: I propose we allow the building to continue on the permanent site
Shep Titian: Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: let us fix the following
Tanoujin Milestone: 1. we are fine with the new schloss
Tanoujin Milestone: 2. we want it moved when the time is there
Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory raises her hand
[b]Tanoujin Milestone: and set a time to finish the documentation of the old building
Tanoujin Milestone: done
Shep Titian: Lil
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: After Lol Tor
Lilith Ivory: I just wanted to suggest to set a time for the move already as “when the time is there” so sounds CDS like 🙂
Shep Titian: Lil
Shep Titian: sorry
Tor Karlsvalt: I propose that RA approve the schloss and allow the Chancellor to set the time of the move no earlier than next Saturday.
Pip Torok: i agree
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy raises hand
Tor Karlsvalt: If we need more time to finish a picture montage then I will extend the move a bit.
Tor Karlsvalt: Naturally, we need to fit into people’s schedules.
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Tanoujin Milestone: I support the Chancellors suggestion
Bagheera Kristan: I do too
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy lowers hand
Shep Titian: I already propsed it be moved
Shep Titian: No one seconded
Pip Torok: i second
Shep Titian: You can’t Pip sorry
Moonrise Azalee: I second
Sudane Erato: lol Pip… you’re not in the RA! )
Shep Titian: Thank you Razzy
Sudane Erato: hehe
Tanoujin Milestone: could you repeat, Shep? I obviously missed it, my apologies
Pip Torok: of course (must frop those bad habits!)
Shep Titian: ok vote on the new build being approved to move to the permanent site
Shep Titian: Aye
Bagheera Kristan: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Tanoujin Milestone: aye
Shep Titian: Passed .. excellent
Sudane Erato: ty 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: ?~~?~~APPLAUSE~~?~~?
Pip Torok: marvellous!! :-))
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy smiles
Shep Titian: Tor if you can take it from here
Serge Voorhees: Serge Voorhees smiles
Shep Titian: Cool
Tanoujin Milestone: phew
Sudane Erato: Rosie and I will be happy to work with Tor on this
Sudane Erato: as he suggests
Shep Titian: Excellent
Shep Titian: We look forward to the first ball
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Tor Karlsvalt: I will let every one know when the wrecking party happens.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Callipygian Christensen: Sudane- I have a number of images that can be made into tapestries if you or Rosie want to provide the tapestry prim
Sudane Erato: oh… we can talk 🙂
Shep Titian: Ok .. now just a discussion as yet lol
Tor Karlsvalt: that would be an excellent idea
Tor Karlsvalt: a tapestry maybe of the old schloss?
Pip Torok: I have a number of tapestries that were in the tanzhaus, Sudane
Shep Titian: In the fervour to restock with citizens .. and the talking about remoddling LA
Sudane Erato: we’d be happy to accept full perm textures for proposed tapestries or any other pictures
Shep Titian: I’m sorry am I disturbing you
Sudane Erato: sorry… just answering… time to move on, i agree
Shep Titian: Thanks 🙂
Shep Titian: Basically .. how do folks feel about all the sims being looked at
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Shep Titian: maybe make some bigger parcels where possible
Shep Titian: Bahs
Bagheera Kristan: oh sorry, you weren’t done 🙂 please finish
Shep Titian: There are places where paths lead no where .. many other small bits that could save prim and m,ake the parcels more appealing
Pip Torok: can we assume that the sims with the most serious shortage will be looked at first?
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy raises hand
Shep Titian: If people think its a good idea I thought a committee might be the way to go
Shep Titian: ok done
Shep Titian: razz anfrt Bags
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy giggles
Moonrise Azalee: thank you
Shep Titian: I low typos lol
Moonrise Azalee: just in response to what Pip said… I think that the sims we need to get habitated might be the ones we need to look at first.
Bagheera Kristan: I would love to help with the committee, I was also thinking about how to do it so it wouldn’t be chaotic…
Shep Titian: Yes good point
Shep Titian: it seems a good opportunity to look in depth
Bagheera Kristan: I know we talked last month about this and said people should start fixing things as they were discovered, is this a continutation of that discussion?
Moonrise Azalee: There must be reasons why one sim is full and one is so empty. taking a look at redesigning paths, finding prims and maybe, as you mentioned, extending parcels.. would be good.
Moonrise Azalee: done
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: It is in a way Bags .. its my responce to seeing nmo change lol
Shep Titian: But if thats whats wanted no problem 🙂
Bagheera Kristan: ah, sorry, my IRL father has been in the hospital this past month, I meant to do more
Shep Titian: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Tor Karlsvalt: sorry to hear that Bags.
Shep Titian: Hell I’m not blaming you
Moonrise Azalee: Sorry Bags
Bagheera Kristan: 🙂 kk 🙂
Shep Titian: Awww so sorry .. I hope he recovers well
Bagheera Kristan: he’s 92…
Shep Titian: Good genes
Bagheera Kristan: no worries, let’s talk abotu what’s at hand, I only meant to say this DOES matter to me, I just didn’t get to it this month
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy nods
Shep Titian: Yes and my point was general hun .. I would’nt single anyone out
Shep Titian: CDS is alwats talk talk lol
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks
Tor Karlsvalt: I think the meeting I held had one theme, the theme of LA should be tweaked.
Tor Karlsvalt: I also believe that some redrawing of parcels is inorder.
Tor Karlsvalt: in LA the larger parcels have always been rather popular.
Shep Titian: Right .. what would you like it to be Tor?
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy nods
Bagheera Kristan: yes, I agree with Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: Well I know you might disagree but I think the Guild could run a contest for a map or plan.
Tor Karlsvalt: There could be some parameters.
Tor Karlsvalt: bigger harbor, more water, better music venue etc
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy nods
Shep Titian: Well the Guild is’nt a CDS gov’t thing
Tanoujin Milestone: the Chancellor can hire the Guild 🙂
Shep Titian: You’d have to set the comp
Tor Karlsvalt: Also, we probably want to keep some of the legacy builds.
Shep Titian: Yes he can
Lilith Ivory: the RA could offer the guild that job if I remember right
Bagheera Kristan: are we still on the agenda? I am lost
Shep Titian: Yes hun
Shep Titian: its a discussion in general about tidying up etc
Serge Voorhees raises hand
[b]Shep Titian: I’m more than happy for you to chair a committee if we can get one up and running
Bagheera Kristan: yes, okay. I am for prim saving and judicious redrawing of parcels to make larger parcels, I’m not for a wholesale overhaul of LA
Shep Titian: Getting a bad lag
Bagheera Kristan: chat lag – LOL! I wrote that a while back, sorry
Shep Titian: Its ok lol
Shep Titian: Serge
Serge Voorhees: As you know, I am new here, and maybe my question is superfluous…. does CDS has proper statistics on the PRIM-usage and on visitors?
Tor Karlsvalt: no we don’t
Serge Voorhees: I would suggest then to gather such statistics, as they might be very helpful
Tor Karlsvalt: Well we know where prims are a problem, NFS.
Pip TorokPip Torok raises hand
[b]Shep Titian: Pip
Shep Titian: Wb Tan
Pip Torok: imo keeping stats IN CASE they may be needed cd be a wate of valuable time
Pip Torok: waste
Tanoujin Milestone: thank you
Pip Torok: done
Serge Voorhees: Serge Voorhees raises hand
Shep Titian: Serge
Serge Voorhees: TY. Maybe I should explain better why I brought the topic.
Shep Titian: Please do
Serge Voorhees: Of course, you all do know calculating the static PRIM is not a problem, and can be easily gathered in statistic. But lag is also a problem of temp prims, which has to do with visitors and what scripts they are wearing
Shep Titian: yes
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy nods
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Serge Voorhees: So if you don’t know why some parts are laggy, and you would base yourself only on fixed prims, you might take wrong conclusions
Shep Titian: Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
Tor Karlsvalt: Just in response to Serge
Tor Karlsvalt: Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the old schloss has some temp prims that rezz only when you need them in a room
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
Tor Karlsvalt: I have gotten a funny error from time to time up at the schloss. I suspect it is somewhat of a problem gone overlooked for a long time.
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Serge Voorhees: Serge Voorhees raises hand
Shep Titian: serge
Bagheera Kristan: raises hand higher
Shep Titian: Sorry Bags
Shep Titian: After serge
Bagheera Kristan: ty
Serge Voorhees: In answer to Tor:: as far as the “schloß” is concerned, I am unaware. I was only referring to the # of prims (from scripts) that are brought in by visiting ALTS as a cause of LAG, and hence discomfort. That is also the reason why you find PRIM-counters for visitors on some SIMS
Moonrise Azalee: Hey guys.. I’ve got to go
Moonrise Azalee: Family showed up a little while ago
Tor Karlsvalt: by Razzy
Tanoujin Milestone: Have a good time, Razzy 🙂
Shep Titian: I don’t think we het enough visitors to worry lol
Bagheera Kristan: bye 🙂
Moonrise Azalee: :/ Sorry!
Shep Titian: Bags
Lilith Ivory: bye Razzi
Moonrise Azalee: Razzy waves
Pip Torok: au revoir razzy
Moonrise Azalee: Bye
Shep Titian: byre Razz
Bagheera Kristan: I meant to mention this earlier, but it seems areas that used to have some restrictions on rezzing now are open to rezzing by anyone and I keep stumbling across random prims that shouldn’t be there. Just before todays’ meeting I found one, a purchased hair that belonged to someone I didn’t recognize. I don’t have the powers to return these and I forget to mention them
Tor Karlsvalt: Girls can start by taking off their hair.
Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
Bagheera Kristan: but somehow, I think permissions have gotten changed inadvertently over time and there are now random prims by people who shouldn’t be rezzing
Bagheera Kristan: CDS has – in my experience – been remarkably lag free, today’s experience is the first real exception
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Shep Titian: The ims should be set to group
Shep Titian: Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
Bagheera Kristan: done
Tor Karlsvalt: Thakns Bags for finding that
Shep Titian: thanks Bags
Tor Karlsvalt: I have been limiting prims on some LV land.
Tor Karlsvalt: especially in CN.
Sudane Erato: there will always be a need for clean-up crews to return garbage
Tanoujin Milestone: i volunteer 😉
Tor Karlsvalt: I know we recently changed much of he common land there from CN to LV and the perms might have been relaxed.
Bagheera Kristan: ah!
Tor Karlsvalt: I will look at that and restrict rezzing to only LV
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Shep Titian: Excellent
Tor Karlsvalt: But if you need LV perms see me or any other officer in LV.
Shep Titian: Is there anyone else here who would like to join Bags on a committee to check the sims?
Bagheera Kristan: a committee of one – LOL 🙂
Bagheera Kristan: makes decision amking so much easier
Shep Titian: Looking that way
Pip Torok: theyre the most efficient, usually!
Sudane Erato: well, there are other residents not present who might help
Bagheera Kristan: yes 🙂
Bagheera Kristan: I am laughing
Shep Titian: Yes I agree Sudane
Bagheera Kristan: well, I can start and people can join me as they please 🙂
Shep Titian: Ok we’ll leave that as a work in progress .. but when it’s formed its yours Bags
Bagheera Kristan: okay, thank you 🙂
Shep Titian: We’ll talk to some others to see who will help
Bagheera Kristan: I appreciate that 🙂 I’ll put something on the forum too
Shep Titian: Yes cool
Shep Titian: Ok moving on
Shep Titian: Do you have an exec report Tor?
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
Tor Karlsvalt: sure
Tor Karlsvalt: a few things
Shep Titian: You have thje floor
Tor Karlsvalt: first we have two new citizens, Candence Theus and Io ouch some thing
Tor Karlsvalt: both have parcels not in NFS.
Bagheera Kristan: hurrah !
Shep Titian: cool
Tor Karlsvalt: Second I have have placed a number of fachwerk on parcels and halved their land impact using the Convex Hull feature.
Tor Karlsvalt: I urge all to look into this, especially in NFS.
Shep Titian: so they buy a sofa now 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: Also, we have had some goood work done in the guild re prefab houses for CDS
Tor Karlsvalt: Candence built a very good one and it can be viewed in LA on parcels 13 and 14
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Pip TorokPip Torok wd be happy to do an old4new swap of fachwerke in his inventory…
[b]Tor Karlsvalt: I am going to plan a spring fest with hopefully an art fair in he streets of CN.
Tor Karlsvalt: I think some time in April will be good for that.
Tor Karlsvalt: Also, we will be taking up he ice in the next several weeks.
Tor Karlsvalt: probably toward the middle of March.
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Shep Titian: how many is several?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: Well we have the schloss as a priority
Shep Titian: lol thats 2
Tor Karlsvalt: but I assume as soon as possible, I don’t want to go too far past the 15th
Tor Karlsvalt: I like the snow, but am tired of it.
Sudane Erato: I can change the ground texs whenever asked 🙂
Tor Karlsvalt: and I hear Chicago might be 60 this week so…..
Tor Karlsvalt: chat lag
Shep Titian: Is that you done Tor?
Tor Karlsvalt: sorry yes
Shep Titian: ok thank you 🙂
Shep Titian: There being no announcements .. next meeting
Shep Titian: If we do 4 weeks
Shep Titian: Sunday 31st?
Bagheera Kristan: That’s Easter
Shep Titian: is it oooh
Sudane Erato: western easter 🙂
Shep Titian: ok 7th April
Bagheera Kristan: LOL yes, Easter for me
Bagheera Kristan: 7th April is good for me
Shep Titian: Well we’ll plump for that .. 1 pm again?
Bagheera Kristan: good for me
Tanoujin Milestone: okay
Shep Titian: Ok done
Shep Titian: Next meeting Sunday 7th April at 1 pm
Shep Titian: I propose we adjourn
Bagheera Kristan: seconded
Tanoujin Milestone: second
Tanoujin Milestone: and aye
Bagheera Kristan: aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 07 April 2013

Agenda for RA meeting of Sunday 7th. of April 2013 at 1pm SLT

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)

– Old Business

Will the new Schloss be ready for signing off at the next RA meeting ?

– New Business

For discussion today ….

1) … Public Buildings and private use thereof ..

I’m in favour of adding to legislation something like … ………… any private use ( that is use not initiated on behalf of CDS) of public buildings be on the understanding that any items used for the event, be removed at the end of the event , leaving the building in the condition it was found

2) … Removing or heavily regulating the chancellor’s right to force people to give up/ change parcels … this is separate from the arrears stipulations
…http://portal.slcds.info/index.php/cds- … stitution/

– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:
1. the new Schloss was unanimously & finally approved.
2. RA asked the guild and Widget if they will come up with some ideas for the fast removal of items from private use of public buildings and report back before implementing any .. for approval by RA. The Guildmaster accepted the order.
3. CDS Constitution Article II Section 2 a,e and Section 8 were discussed
4. The Chancellor spoke on private use of public land and preparations for SL10B
5. The RA agreed to meet again on Sunday 5th May at 1pm SLT, Praetorium, Colonia Nova
[13:07] Shep Titian: Well we can start .. they can catch up
[13:08] Shep Titian: Please remember by speaking you are agreeing to be recorded and transcribed
[13:09] Shep Titian: Ok meeting called to order
[13:09] Shep Titian: If we can review the agenda and approve please RA
[13:10] Tanoujin Milestone: good agenda, I for one approve
[13:10] Shep Titian: Ah Razzy
[13:10] Ranma Tardis: second
[13:10] Tanoujin Milestone: ty, Ranma, let us give Razzy the chance to check it
[13:11] Shep Titian: Hi Razz
[13:11] Pip Torok: hi razzy .. nice to see you!
[13:11] Rosie Gray: hi Razzy
[13:11] Ranma Tardis: hi Razzy 🙂
[13:11] Moonrise Azalee: Hey there. Sorry I’m late
[13:11] Ranma Tardis: funny you saw her before me
[13:11] Shep Titian: When you’ve caught your breath could you approve agenda pls its in the box
[13:12] Moonrise Azalee: yep, just looking at it
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: Hi Razzi
[13:12] Shep Titian: cool
[13:12] Moonrise Azalee: yes. I’m cool with it
[13:12] Shep Titian: good
[13:12] Moonrise Azalee: hi Lilith
[13:12] Shep Titian: Speakers on todays agenda should include Tor
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: he said he might be late today
[13:13] Shep Titian: Ram requested he answer some qu8estions
[13:13] Shep Titian: Ran
[13:13] Shep Titian: ok we’ll see what happenns
[13:13] Tanoujin Milestone: Raises hand
[13:14] Shep Titian: Yes
[13:14] Ranma Tardis: yes I did
[13:14] Shep Titian: Tan
[13:14] Tanoujin Milestone: I would like to encourage Widget to have her saying on the use of public biuldings
[13:14] Tanoujin Milestone: done
[13:14] Widget Whiteberry: thank you, I’ve some thoughts
[13:15] Shep Titian: Yes all are welcome to comment
[13:15] Ranma Tardis: I was looking up the relevant part of the consitution
[13:15] Shep Titian: Can we come to it in turn please
[13:15] Shep Titian: Next is citizens concerns
[13:16] Shep Titian: Anyone have anything for us?
[13:16] Shep Titian: OK
[13:17] Shep Titian: RA .. any concerns?
[13:17] Tanoujin Milestone: not today 🙂
[13:17] Shep Titian: 🙂
[13:17] Ranma Tardis: called Tor to here
[13:17] Moonrise Azalee: none from me
[13:17] Ranma Tardis: under articile 2 section 8 of the constitution
[13:17] Shep Titian: Yes RanI know
[13:18] Shep Titian: He may yet show
[13:18] Shep Titian: ok
[13:19] Shep Titian: Old business .. The Schlodd .. I see both Rosie and Sudane here .. do you think that we can sign off o0n it on the next RA ,meeting?
[13:19] Shep Titian: Schloss
[13:19] Shep Titian: Sorry
[13:20] Sudane Erato: should i speak to that?
[13:20] Shep Titian: Please Sudane
[13:20] Sudane Erato: not sure what you mean by signing off….
[13:20] Sudane Erato: but…
[13:20] Sudane Erato: you can always come and comment and suggest
[13:20] Shep Titian: Well I understood that it required RA approval
[13:21] Sudane Erato: our target as originally proposed was to be done by the next inaugural
[13:21] Sudane Erato: well… i guess you can approve it… that needed to be done before the old one was replaced
[13:21] Sudane Erato: sin ce we can no longer put the old one back
[13:22] Sudane Erato: an approval is kind of theortetical
[13:22] Sudane Erato: but you’re welcome to do that anytime
[13:22] Shep Titian: Right … I’m wondering why iy needs RA approval to be honesyt .. but its always been talked about that we give final approval
[13:22] Sudane Erato: or indicate things thgbat you’d like changed
[13:22] Ranma Tardis: think of it as a acceptance vote
[13:23] Shep Titian: Thanks Tan
[13:23] Sudane Erato: but, really, we still have a ton to do, and our target has been the inaugural
[13:23] Shep Titian: RAN
[13:23] Shep Titian: I’m not with it
[13:23] Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂 me raises hand
[13:23] Sudane Erato: i’m sure both Rosie and I feel that you can pass an acceptance vote anytime
[13:23] Ranma Tardis: well it is a fine gift to our community
[13:24] Shep Titian: Tan
[13:24] Sudane Erato: sorry… done
[13:25] Tanoujin Milestone: I suggest we deem it approved, the interior design does not need another approval by RA – i would like to have tge opportunity to say thanks to the builders on the inaugurial…
[13:25] Shep Titian: That’s fine .. It was me kept on about it lol
[13:26] Shep Titian: Was’nt
[13:26] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[13:26] Shep Titian: DEar lord
[13:26] Moonrise Azalee: (laughs)
[13:26] Ranma Tardis: well I move to accept it and give our thanks to Sudane Erato and Rosie Grey
[13:26] Shep Titian: I second
[13:26] Shep Titian: vOTE
[13:26] Shep Titian: aYE
[13:26] Moonrise Azalee: Aye
[13:26] Ranma Tardis: aye
[13:26] Tanoujin Milestone: aye and than you very much!
[13:26] Tanoujin Milestone: +k
[13:27] Sudane Erato: thank you! 🙂
[13:27] Moonrise Azalee: (grins)
[13:27] Shep Titian: gOOD APPROVED 🙂
[13:27] Rosie Gray: ?
[13:27] Moonrise Azalee: Thanks Rosie and Sudane
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: (nods and applauds)
[13:27] Shep Titian: aND YES THANK YOU BOTH
[13:27] Sudane Erato: its a great pleasure to work with Rosie on this… and its still a long way from done 🙂
[13:27] Ranma Tardis: my thanks to Rosie and Sudane
[13:27] Rosie Gray: thanks everyone
[13:28] Widget Whiteberry: it’s exciting to watch it take place
[13:28] Moonrise Azalee: (nods)
[13:28] Shep Titian: Ok moving on
[13:29] Shep Titian: The next are just discussion subjects .. which can be expanded to the forum
[13:29] Shep Titian: Private Use of public buildings
[13:30] Rosie Gray: Hi Kell
[13:30] Pip Torok: hi kellie !
[13:30] Kellie Wellesley: ¡o???? Rosie
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kellie 🙂
[13:30] Shep Titian: Do we need to add a statement to our covenants that private use items be removed after the event
[13:30] Pip Torok: LOL
[13:30] Kellie Wellesley: ¡o???? Pip, Lilith Tan everyone
[13:31] Shep Titian: Hi Kellie
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: (raises her hand)
[13:31] Shep Titian: Lil
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: (smiles)
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: I only wanted to say that I think it is great what Widget does for our community and that we have a lot of other deserted public buildings which needed to be filled with life.
[13:33] Sudane Erato: agree!
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: I´m sure any of our citizens was more than welcome to hold an event there whenever she or he would like
[13:33] Rosie Gray: I agree too
[13:33] Shep Titian: Yes .. so do we ignore covenant then?
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: and get the support of our executive team
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: what part of the covenant exactly Shep?
[13:34] Shep Titian: Timeline
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: I think it´s more important to have life in our community than matching chairs in an empty Sim
[13:34] Ranma Tardis: letting a group take control of public property is stealing from the community
[13:34] Rosie Gray: (raises hand)
[13:35] Pip Torok: raises hand
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: not stealing, just lenting
[13:35] Shep Titian: Rosie
[13:35] Ranma Tardis: why can’t I have a free lot for my group?
[13:35] Rosie Gray: well I’d just like to point out that it was all done with the approval of the Chancellor and executive
[13:35] Rosie Gray: so calling this ‘stealing’ is really out of line, in my view
[13:35] Ranma Tardis: who ingored my summons
[13:36] Shep Titian: Yes and he is restricted from allowing change
[13:36] Ranma Tardis: as a community we survive on tier
[13:36] Rosie Gray: he hasnt’ changed any covenant
[13:36] Shep Titian: Why was it so impossible to remove the items?
[13:36] Shep Titian: Pip
[13:37] Widget Whiteberry: Are we talking about removal of VS items?
[13:37] Rosie Gray: and Ranma, I would suggest that you or anyone else that has a group that wants to hold regular, well publicized public functions could probably arrange to have a plot to do so
[13:37] Rosie Gray: finished
[13:37] Pip Torok: 2 things … 1st its always possible to create a linked structure and install/remove it in seconds
[13:37] Shep Titian: Exactly Pip
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: (raises hand to comment on Pip)
[13:38] Pip Torok: 2nd imo covenants should be as light and as slim as possible … and allot most items to informal arrangements
[13:38] Pip Torok: done
[13:38] Ranma Tardis: though you miss my point, how will we survive without tier
[13:38] Ranma Tardis: ?
[13:38] Shep Titian: Then the group gets its use and those of us that don’t want things there between meets have what we want too
[13:38] Moonrise Azalee: (raises hand)
[13:38] Shep Titian: Lil
[13:39] Shep Titian: then Razzy after
[13:39] Tanoujin Milestone: (Tanoujin Milestone rises hand to comment on Ranma and waits)
[13:39] Rosie Gray: (raises hand again too)
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: I only wanted to say that is is not as easy to create a linked structure as Pip thinks as it depends on the permissions of the different items
[13:40] Sudane Erato: linked or not linked, a rezzor can handle the job easily
[13:40] Shep Titian: We have excellent builders that could help
[13:40] Shep Titian: Razz
[13:40] Shep Titian: then Tan then Rosie
[13:40] Moonrise Azalee: Well, I will say that I disagree.. it is not tier that holds a community… it is comeraderie…
[13:40] Moonrise Azalee: and activity
[13:40] Shep Titian: Lol
[13:41] Moonrise Azalee: tier makes a sim. not a community. Thats all.
[13:41] Moonrise Azalee: done
[13:41] Shep Titian: Yes if there are sims left
[13:41] Sudane Erato: yes!
[13:41] Ranma Tardis: tier pays for the sims
[13:41] Pip Torok:
[13:41] Sudane Erato: yes to Razzy
[13:41Moonrise Azalee: I guess im missing something…
[13:41] Moonrise Azalee: Im not sure how allowing a parcel for a group to use…
[13:41] Shep Titian: Tan
[13:41] Ranma Tardis: so the community is paying for this free lot
[13:42] Razzy: is setting up the failure of a sim.
[13:42] Tanoujin Milestone: Ranma, we are mixing topics, if we have a controveres between liberals and socialists, let us have that – if it is about chairs, let us stick to that
[13:42] Moonrise Azalee: (realizes we have lots of vacant lots anyhow)
[13:42] Widget Whiteberry: (raises her hand to comment on tier)
[13:42] Moonrise Azalee: anyhow.. sorry. im done
[13:42] Ranma Tardis: Sundane are we meeting expenses?
[13:42] Tanoujin Milestone: I appreciate what you say, Razzy
[13:42] Shep Titian: Widget
[13:42] Widget Whiteberry: ty
[13:42] Widget Whiteberry: Ranma hasn’t explained the connection between tier and use of public space. I am paying slightly less now that I’ve created a skybox.
[13:43] Widget Whiteberry: More importantly
[13:43] Widget Whiteberry: I don’t see availability of public spaces for privately produced events as a draw.
[13:44] Moonrise Azalee: (nods)
[13:44] Widget Whiteberry: I’m hoping once the rules are clear that will change.
[13:44] Widget Whiteberry: done
[13:44] Ranma Tardis: the connection is on a private lot she can maintain her groups objects
[13:44] Widget Whiteberry:
[13:44] Shep Titian: No .. I like public spaces to be just that
[13:44] Ranma Tardis: put out any political message no matter how vulgar
[13:44] Rosie Gray: perhaps LRA could keep people from interrupting when it’s not their turn?
[13:44] Shep Titian: BUT if someone really wants to use one just clear it up
[13:44] Moonrise Azalee: (laughs)
[13:45] Shep Titian: Ok .. easily solved .. take it to the forum
[13:45] Shep Titian: Moving on
[13:45] Widget Whiteberry: (raises hand to address rezzing and removal of objects)
[13:45] Pip Torok: (remembers london democratic sessions that were _ever_ so vulgar ….)
[13:45] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[13:46] Rosie Gray: heheh
[13:46] Ranma Tardis: well they insulted the head of my political party
[13:46] Ranma Tardis: The President of the United States
[13:46] Shep Titian: Stop fighting
[13:46] Rosie Gray: (chortles)
[13:47] Kellie Wellesley: Every president of the US has been insulted for the last 200 years
[13:47] Ranma Tardis: further a member of my extended rl family
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: (mumbles something about freedom of speech)
[13:47] Kellie Wellesley: I would worry if it didn’t happen
[13:47] Shep Titian: OK who wants to take some chancellors powers away?
[13:47] Shep Titian: Mumble in the forum Lileth
[13:47] Ranma Tardis: but this is on public land and it looks like the cds endorses the message
[13:47] Widget Whiteberry: (raises hand to address rezzing and removal of objects)
[13:48] Tanoujin Milestone: me raises hand
[13:48] Shep Titian: Ranma I will abort the meeting
[13:48] Shep Titian: Tan
[13:48] Moonrise Azalee: I will second that
[13:48] Tanoujin Milestone: i would like to ask you, chair
[13:49] Tanoujin Milestone: to let have Widget have the last say on the topic
[13:49] Widget Whiteberry: ty
[13:49] Tanoujin Milestone: and move on, please?
[13:49] Widget Whiteberry: 2 comments
[13:49] Widget Whiteberry: If we want to encourage private use of public space, it would be useful to create rules that allow some flexibility. Take ‘clean-up’ – which I agree with. For example, some events don’t actually end after the formal period. I recommend a case by case agreement.
[13:49] Shep Titian: Ok Widget .. with NO right of reply
[13:49] Widget Whiteberry: ah 3, and ok
[13:49] Widget Whiteberry: It might be useful to anticipate different uses of public spaces and create some set ups that are linked.
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: good ideas
[13:50] Widget Whiteberry: I think I’ll leave it at that
[13:51] Shep Titian: Would you be interested in investigating that Widget and coming up with some ideas?
[13:51] Widget Whiteberry: thinking
[13:51] Widget Whiteberry: I’d contribute to that kind of idea generation
[13:52] Widget Whiteberry: for public spaces are going to remain as they are now
[13:52] Widget Whiteberry: if a redesign is in the works, I’d hold off
[13:53] Shep Titian: Maybe it would be a good use of the Guild .. what do you think Rosie?
[13:53] Rosie Gray: absolutely
[13:54] Rosie Gray: it could be our next project for the guild, if the Ra would like that
[13:54] Widget Whiteberry: (smiles encouragement at Rosie)
[13:54] Moonrise Azalee: nods
[13:55] Shep Titian: Cool .. ok does the rest of RA approve of the Guild and featuring Widget formulate some plans for public builds to be used and returned to normal quickly?
[13:55] Moonrise Azalee: yes
[13:55] Shep Titian: Tan?
[13:56] Tanoujin Milestone: SUre, and we could ask the guild to get on the job officialy
[13:56] Shep Titian: Ran ?
[13:56] Ranma Tardis: nay
[13:56] Rosie Gray: (nods)
[13:56] Shep Titian: Why nay?
[13:56] Ranma Tardis: no RA oversight
[13:57] Shep Titian: Yes I was going to Tan but we don’t have 4 votes
[13:57] Tanoujin Milestone: (scratches her head)
[13:57] Shep Titian: WEll yes .. they are employed by us
[13:57] Shep Titian: and report back
[13:59] Tanoujin Milestone: Ranma , would you agree to redesign of public spaces so they can be used
and cleaned up again by the guild?
[14:00] Tanoujin Milestone: and if not, why?
[14:00] Ranma Tardis: want to hear more
[14:00] Shep Titian: Ok I’ll do it this way … I propse that RA ask the guild and Widget if they will come up with some ideas for the fast removal of items from private use of public buildings and report back before implementing any .. for approval by RA
[14:00] Ranma Tardis: nods
[14:00] Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
[14:01] Moonrise Azalee: Yeah
[14:01] Shep Titian: Someone second
[14:01] Tanoujin Milestone: I seciond
[14:01] Tanoujin Milestone: _i
[14:01] Shep Titian: Vote Aye
[14:01] Moonrise Azalee: aye
[14:01] Tanoujin Milestone: Aye
[14:01] Ranma Tardis: aye
[14:01] Widget Whiteberry: aye
[14:01] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[14:02] Rosie Gray: ?
[14:02] Ranma Tardis: Widget you are not a RA member
[14:02] Ranma Tardis: giggles you can run
[14:02] Widget Whiteberry: ty, I wasn’t sure of protocol
[14:02] Shep Titian: Excellent … Rosie will you be kind enough to approve the Guild working for us
[14:02] Rosie Gray: yes Madam LRA
[14:02] Rosie Gray: (smiles)
[14:02] Tanoujin Milestone: fantastic!
[14:02] Moonrise Azalee: grins
[14:02] Rosie Gray: I’ll call a meeting soon to discuss this
[14:03] Shep Titian: Excellent .. we have a plan
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: yay
[14:03] Moonrise Azalee: claps
[14:03] Sudane Erato: bravo!
[14:03] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[14:03] Shep Titian: Ran
[14:04] Ranma Tardis: am not happy I summoned the chancellor as per the Constitution and he ignored the summons
[14:05] Shep Titian: Yes and he shouls attend for the exec report
[14:05] Widget Whiteberry: I hope he’s alright
[14:05] Shep Titian: But we don’t know why
[14:05] Shep Titian: Its not like him to miss
[14:06] Rosie Gray: he’s had a lot of problems logging in recently
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: I saw him today and somehow I think he was not aware he had to answer questions here today
[14:06] Shep Titian: He has to attend RA once a month
[14:06] Sudane Erato: raise hand
[14:06] Shep Titian: Its in the constitution
[14:07] Shep Titian: Sudane
[14:07] Sudane Erato: question of information
[14:07] Callipygian Christensen: (raises her hand)
[14:07] Sudane Erato: itenmn 2 on the agenda refers to some right that the chancellor has to take away a persons land
[14:07] Shep Titian: After Sudane Calli
[14:07] Sudane Erato: i’ve never heard of such a right
[14:08] Sudane Erato: could you identify and define it?
[14:08] Sudane Erato: done
[14:08] Shep Titian: Well I read it this week in the constitution
[14:08] Pip Torok: (is VERY relieved to hear that …)
[14:08] Shep Titian: One dec I’ll get it
[14:09] Callipygian Christensen: it is in the Consitution and has been forever 🙂 It came up in discussion last term as well iirc
[14:09] Tanoujin Milestone: (e) subject to the payment of adequate compensation to any citizen or citizens thereby affected, reclaim or swap any land…
[14:09] Tanoujin Milestone: and
[14:09] Tanoujin Milestone: (a) to determine the use to which any and all land in CDS shall be put;
[14:10] Shep Titian: Ok .. I’ll be a few mins
[14:10] Sudane Erato: ahh… the old “eminnent domain” issue…
[14:10] Shep Titian: bre good
[14:11] Callipygian Christensen: it’s a reasonable power, and seldom used and rightly so – I dont recall it being used in my time in CDS
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: (nods)
[14:11] Sudane Erato: nor do i
[14:11] Ranma Tardis: nods
[14:12] Tanoujin Milestone: The Chancellor of CDS shall, *subject to the laws* of CDS, have the power:
[14:12] Tanoujin Milestone: so, we make the laws here, right?
[14:12] Sudane Erato: we try 🙂
[14:12] Tanoujin Milestone: and we can limit the power by law
[14:13] Tanoujin Milestone: so true, Sudane .-D
[14:13] Moonrise Azalee: Hey everyone.. I have to head off to work
[14:13] Callipygian Christensen: (would respectuflly sggest that things that aren’t broken might not need fixin’ 🙂
[14:14] Widget Whiteberry: (wonders what’s broken here)
[14:14] Tanoujin Milestone: not in the constitution if we can regulate it by law
[14:14] Callipygian Christensen: (and my hand is still up re the previous matter of the Chancellor appearing)
[14:14] Rosie Gray: (waves goodbye to Razzy)
[14:14] Tanoujin Milestone: Bye, Razzy
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: bye Razzy
[14:14] Pip Torok: bye razz … dont work too hard …
[14:14] Moonrise Azalee: Sorry for being late and having to leave early. I only had an hour today 🙁
[14:14] Shep Titian: (e) subject to the payment of adequate compensation to any citizen or citizens thereby affected, reclaim or swap any land held by any citizen of CDS for the purposes of discharging any function of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly, provided always that no citizen of CDS shall not be caused to have no holding in Neufriestadt at all thereby;
[14:14] Moonrise Azalee: (waves)
[14:15] Shep Titian: Sorry it would’nt open
[14:15] Moonrise Azalee: Bye Shep 🙂
[14:15] Ranma Tardis: bye bye Razzy
[14:15] Shep Titian: O bye Razz
[14:15] Shep Titian: aee you over there!! lol
[14:16] Sudane Erato: raise hand
[14:16] Callipygian Christensen: me?
[14:17] Shep Titian: I found that peregraph a little startling
[14:17] Callipygian Christensen: just to clarify – was Tor sent a notecard requesting that he appear?
[14:17] Shep Titian: Sudane
[14:17] Shep Titian: No Calli Razz
[14:17] Callipygian Christensen: oh sorry..thought you wanted me to go ahead lol
[14:17] Shep Titian: I was too slow posting
[14:17] Sudane Erato: i’m just wondering why this issue is being brought to the RA… was there any event which prompted it?
[14:17] Sudane Erato: done
[14:18] Shep Titian: Yes .. I read it :)))
[14:18] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[14:18] Sudane Erato: ok…
[14:18] Shep Titian: LOL
[14:18] Sudane Erato: understood 🙂
[14:18] Shep Titian: well its for discussion
[14:18] Callipygian Christensen: ok..so to speak to Ranma’s disappointment, if he didn’t recieve a formal request I think it’s probably easiest to just send one for the next meeting 🙂
[14:19] Shep Titian: And I’m sure Tor won’t play musical parcels
[14:19] Shep Titian: But he could
[14:19] Ranma Tardis: it was in the forums
[14:20] Shep Titian: I checked that too .. it needs to be a notecard Ranma
[14:20] Callipygian Christensen: I don’t think a forum post qualifies as ‘written request’ Ranma..a notecard in world would be the standard or an e-mail
[14:20] Ranma Tardis: notecards are no good because there is no way to verify delivery
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: if you send a notecard it´s in your transaction history
[14:21] Ranma Tardis: he could always calaim he did not get it
[14:21] Ranma Tardis: got a notecard not what
[14:21] Pip Torok: (prefers “invitation” to “summons” any day …)
[14:21] Callipygian Christensen: Your transaction history will show delivery Ranma..just title the notecard so that it can be recognizable
[14:22] Rosie Gray: (completely agrees that politeness counts)
[14:22] Ranma Tardis: still where does it say it has to be notecard?
[14:22] Shep Titian: One sec
[14:23] Tanoujin Milestone: The Chancellor will also attend upon three days notice at the written request from any member of the Representative Assembly.
[14:23] Callipygian Christensen: The Consitution says ‘written request’ – in world a written request is a notecard
[14:23] Tanoujin Milestone: Section (
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: (raises her hand)
[14:23] Ranma Tardis: forum is written too
[14:23] Tanoujin Milestone: there he is
[14:23] Rosie Gray: speak of the devil!
[14:23] Sudane Erato: hehe
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: (grins)
[14:23] Shep Titian: Section 8 – RA Oversight
Each month the Chancellor shall attend a meeting of the Representative Assembly, and fully and truthfully answer there any questions posed by any citizen about any aspect of the affairs of the CDS or of the Office of the Chancellor. The Chancellor will also attend upon three days notice at the written request from any member of the Representative Assembly.
[14:24] Pip Torok: (raises hand)
[14:24] Shep Titian: Pip
[14:24] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor 🙂
[14:24] Rosie Gray: hello Herr Chancellor
[14:24] Tanoujin Milestone: Tor 🙂
[14:24] Shep Titian: Hi Tor
[14:25] Tor Karlsvalt: HI all
[14:25] Ranma Tardis: Tor *smiles*
[14:25] Widget Whiteberry: waves to Tor
[14:25] Tanoujin Milestone: (leans back and lights a cigarette)
[14:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Sorry I am so late. We were having a beautiful day here and just finished my 4 mile walk.
[14:25] Shep Titian: LMAO
[14:25] Pip Torok: may i suggest that when a member of the RA makes such a request, she declares that she makes it _as_ a menber of the RA .. and in addition gets the “nod” from other RA members?
[14:26] Shep Titian: (whispers) Is about to give up LOL
[14:26] Lilith Ivory: (raises her hand again)
[14:26] Pip Torok: done (btw)
[14:26] Callipygian Christensen: Pip – the ok of all RA members is not required..the form of request is 🙂
[14:26] Ranma Tardis: As a member of the RA am requesting the presence of the CDS Chancellor Tor at the next meeting of the RA April 7. This involves RA oversight of his office.
[14:26] Shep Titian: Can we decide if it needs talking about .. the chancellors power lol
[14:26] Shep Titian: RAMNA!!!
[14:27] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[14:27] Shep Titian: Ok I’m giving up on that last I’ll take it to the forum myself
[14:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
[14:28] Shep Titian: There being o commission reports we move to executive report and ask the chancellor time
[14:28] Shep Titian: Tor you have the floor
[14:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you
[14:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I have been asked to inform the RA abut the policy of approving th euse of public land.
[14:30] Tor Karlsvalt: As far as I can find, there is no other policy other than public land is available for use by any citizen of CDS. The exec ‘s have as I can see only felt a need to ensure there are no conflicts between use of public land.
[14:31] Widget Whiteberry: (listens)
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: As far as attendance is concerned, the Chancellor is required I belive to attend only one RA per term. Usually this is for the state of the Confederation. I think the record would show that I have attended all of the RA sessions, probably a record some RA members might envy.
[14:32] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[14:32] Shep Titian: Per month Tor
[14:32] Rosie Gray: 😀
[14:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I may stand corrected, but I would have to review the constitution again.
[14:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I know I am required to attend one.
[14:33] Callipygian Christensen: It IS ‘each month’ Tor
[14:34] Shep Titian: Section 8 – RA Oversight
Each month the Chancellor shall attend a meeting of the Representative Assembly, and fully and truthfully answer there any questions posed by any citizen about any aspect of the affairs of the CDS or of the Office of the Chancellor. The Chancellor will also attend upon three days notice at the written request from any member of the Representative Assembly.
[14:34] Callipygian Christensen: But since members of RA weren’t overly familiar with the Consitution either, no fault in you not being aware either lol
[14:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok, as we have only one per month, it seems the chancellor has a more stringent requirement than an RA member
[14:34] Sudane Erato: hehe
[14:35] Lilith Ivory: (grins)
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: In any case, I am sure that I am always available to discuss issues.
[14:35] Tanoujin Milestone: (throws a softball in Calli’s direction)
[14:35] Shep Titian: I hope you are’nt pointing at me
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: oh me no, not at anyone.
[14:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I would make just one more observation.
[14:36] Shep Titian: I don’t think I’ve missed a single meeting
[14:36] Shep Titian: Rambling
[14:36] Tor Karlsvalt: VS has been a wonderful event in CDS.
[14:36] Callipygian Christensen: background info _ the ‘eachmonth’ stems from the days RA met every two weeks – it may be something to look at changing.
[14:36] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[14:36] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[14:37] Rosie Gray: (gets up and sneaks quietly away)
[14:37] Shep Titian: Bye Rosie
[14:37] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Rosie
[14:37] Shep Titian: Ran
[14:38] Ranma Tardis: just want to know how you feel executive power should be use when determining public land usuage?
[14:38] Shep Titian: I don’t see why Tor should have a lesser meeting ratio than us
[14:38] Tor Karlsvalt: May I answer?
[14:38] Shep Titian: Yes
[14:38] Ranma Tardis: please
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I feel the exec role is merely one of scheduling and ensuring that all citizens have access to public land.
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Naturally, events my conflict.
[14:40] Tor Karlsvalt: And the exec would have to ensure that there is no conflict.
[14:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I my knowledge nobody complained to me that they had an event they could not hold in a public place.
[14:40] Shep Titian: Gwyn did
[14:40] Shep Titian: Its in the forum
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: If they had, I am sure arrangements would have been made to accomodate alll events.
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I am very easy to contct
[14:41] Shep Titian: She wanted the amphitheatre anjd was put off
[14:41] Shep Titian: Asked for ideas of an alternative
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: If you send me an email, IM or fb message you can reach me
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a mailbox on my house
[14:42] Sudane Erato: I tink Gwyn should speak to her own reaction to that situation
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Gwyn never asked me first.
[14:42] Pip Torok: (feels it was a shame tht no approach was made for use of the OldBowl)
[14:42] Shep Titian: I’m only sharing what she posted
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Second, I and widget were the only people here who attended her meeting.
[14:42] Shep Titian: I think someone spoke with her but I forget who
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: She nver mentioned use of the Amphitheater at that time.
[14:42] Widget Whiteberry: (nods)
[14:43] Shep Titian: Yes she did
[14:43] Tor Karlsvalt: This whole thing was probably less an issue with Gwyn than with everyone else.
[14:43] Shep Titian: said it was one of the places she could use a certain stream
[14:43] Sudane Erato: I am sure that what Tor says is true about Gwyn’s feeling
[14:44] Tor Karlsvalt: As far as I know her event was not hindered.
[14:44] Shep Titian: I really don’t see why this has exercized people so much .. by all means use public land .. just clear up
[14:45] Tanoujin Milestone: (raises hand)
[14:45] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[14:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I do apologize for the appearance that public land seemed to have been taken over.
[14:45] Shep Titian: You Cannot care that the wrong trees are on the beach then say its ok to have a load of modern stuff on permanent show
[14:45] Tor Karlsvalt: That will not happen again.
[14:45] Shep Titian: Tan
[14:46] Tanoujin Milestone: I have a comment
[14:46] Tanoujin Milestone: we have elements of a presidental system
[14:46] Shep Titian: go ahead
[14:46] Tanoujin Milestone: the chancellor is elected
[14:46] Tor Karlsvalt: However I still would like to point out, that VS has brought at least 14 ppl into the sim twice a week. Not to mention the sims get free publicity on the LL calendar, the VS group and the Pulse Group.
[14:46] Tor Karlsvalt: done, sorry
[14:46] Tanoujin Milestone: and he is responsible for management of events and all kind of administrative tasks
[14:46] Shep Titian: Where has the fishing gone?
[14:47] Tanoujin Milestone: so, if people want to hold him responsible, there are elections too for it
[14:47] Tanoujin Milestone: RA is here to check his actions
[14:47] Shep Titian: Of course
[14:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I stopped the fishing. It was just costing money and it seemed little return.
[14:48] Tanoujin Milestone: but we should appreciate what -he does as a volunteer and give him a little freedom and space to ‘work* done
[14:48] Sudane Erato: bravo
[14:48] Widget Whiteberry: Tor – pt of info – notices go to 6 inworld groups.
[14:48] Shep Titian: It gave us green dots also
[14:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Ranma was kind to continue it for a month longer at her own expense.
[14:48] Callipygian Christensen: (applauds)
[14:48] Pip Torok: (strongly agrees)
[14:49] Shep Titian: Ok can we wind up
[14:49] Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
[14:49] Shep Titian: this cold is devloping nicely
[14:49] Shep Titian: Tor
[14:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks
[14:50] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[14:50] Shep Titian: Oh then Ran
[14:50] Shep Titian: I forgot
[14:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Heads up! SL10B is coming
[14:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I will have a meeting on it probably Wednesday Evening and Friday Morning.
[14:50] Shep Titian: The beach party was great last year
[14:51] Tor Karlsvalt: We have to apply between the 15 thru the 20th.
[14:51] Shep Titian: Not much time
[14:51] Tor Karlsvalt: WE need to get ready this term so we are ready for the event in mid June
[14:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we can’t apply until the 15th
[14:52] Shep Titian: ok just after nre RA session
[14:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I will apply no mater what we have
[14:52] Tor Karlsvalt: ok done, and I hope you get over your cold.
[14:52] Shep Titian: ok
[14:52] Shep Titian: Ranma
[14:52] Shep Titian: lol me too
[14:53] Ranma Tardis: my only concern is the appearance of government endorsement of functions done on public land
[14:54] Ranma Tardis: I praise Widgets involvement in her meetings
[14:54] Shep Titian: Well I think it was all lost in excitement by some Ran
[14:54] Ranma Tardis: and I agree with some of it
[14:54] Shep Titian: I don’t see it as that
[14:55] Ranma Tardis: well it is my view and seems I am in the minority
[14:55] Shep Titian: Did you ever get a reply to that message you sent?
[14:55] Widget Whiteberry: (had no idea there was any implied endoresement of anything other than citizens producing events open to the public.)
[14:55] Ranma Tardis: it is how I see it right or wrong
[14:56] Tanoujin Milestone: (listens)
[14:56] Shep Titian: Probably because I’m a Brit I don’t see that so much
[14:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Frankly I just never even thought about it seeming and endorsement of VS views. But I understand the issue once it was expressed.
[14:56] Ranma Tardis: wish I understood European politics better
[14:56] Shep Titian: Being not that interested in American politics .. sorry
[14:56] Ranma Tardis: maybe a sign
[14:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Well in future perhaps we should have a sign about views expressed here do not represent the views of the CDS.
[14:57] Pip Torok: you and me both, Ranma!
[14:57] Widget Whiteberry: I was’nt aware that VS had consistent or uniform views
[14:57] Callipygian Christensen: So ask that a sign be put up stating ‘The views of this event do not necesarilly reflect the vies of the CDS’ during events
[14:57] Tor Karlsvalt: It is on private land now
[14:57] Ranma Tardis: yes she does a great job of running it
[14:57] Tanoujin Milestone: Yes, it is solved, an interesting question though that Ranma rised here
[14:57] Tor Karlsvalt: you are right Widget, I think that is why I didn’t see any problem.
[14:57] Sudane Erato: there is NO reason to even consider that events should express the views of the CDS!
[14:58] Callipygian Christensen: We are a democracy – that implies that we encourage open and honest exchange of viewpoints
[14:58] Widget Whiteberry: Sudane ++
[14:58] Sudane Erato: exactly
[14:58] Ranma Tardis: on private land there is no reason
[14:58] Shep Titian: Ok folks
[14:59] Shep Titian: No announcements
[14:59] Sudane Erato: so long as public land is open to all citizens and their views, there is no reason on public land either
[14:59] Shep Titian: Date next meeting
[14:59] Ranma Tardis: one last thing, I would like to raise money for relay for life
[14:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Just to insert in thoh ok Ranma
[14:59] Tor Karlsvalt: we should talk about that
[14:59] Shep Titian: Sunday 5th May at 1pm SLT
[14:59] Tor Karlsvalt: k
[15:00] Sudane Erato: hey… that’s the orthodox Easter! 🙂
[15:00] Shep Titian: Propose adjourn
[15:00] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[15:00] Ranma Tardis: second
[15:00] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[15:00] Ranma Tardis: aye
[15:00] Shep Titian: And my brothers birthday
[15:00] Shep Titian: Aye
[15:00] Shep Titian: .. thats it folks

Permalink.

RA Meeting 05 May 2013

RA Meeting 5 May 2013
[13:07] Shep: Ok called to order
[13:07] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone giggles
[13:08] Shep: Please approve agenda
[13:08] Tanoujin Milestone: it is good.
[13:08] Bagheera Kristan: approved
[13:08] Shep: LOL
[13:08] Shep: ok
[13:09] Shep: Speakers on today’s issues .. well Bags is present
[13:09] Bagheera Kristan: here 🙂
[13:09] Tanoujin Milestone: i would have a statement – a shor one
[13:09] Shep: Ok
[13:09] Tanoujin Milestone: *short
[13:09] Shep: good 🙂
[13:10] Tanoujin Milestone: 😉
[13:10] Shep: Citizen concerns .. how’s things Lilith?
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine so far 🙂
[13:10] Shep: hehehehehehe
[13:11] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory grins
[13:11] Shep: RA members .. any concers?
[13:11] Tanoujin Milestone: nope
[13:11] Shep: concerns
[13:12] Shep: Ne neither.. well that’s a lie .. I wonder when the end will come
[13:12] Tanoujin Milestone: talk about it!
[13:13] Bagheera Kristan: well, I can talk about mine when my time comes – LOL !
[13:13] Bagheera Kristan: they are all bundled together
[13:13] Shep: Is that a serious suggestion or a remark in support?
[13:13] Bagheera Kristan: ?? sorry
[13:13] Shep: Well look around you
[13:13] Tanoujin Milestone: me? Serious
[13:14] Shep: lol
[13:14] Tanoujin Milestone: it is called the lame duck meeting
[13:14] Tanoujin Milestone: we are quorate
[13:14] Shep: Not for anything big Tan
[13:15] Tanoujin Milestone: maybe
[13:15] Shep: And we would not have given notice
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: brb, I need to relog
[13:16] Shep: I could happily stand here and say I propose that we close LA .. it does’nt attract citizens
[13:16] Free Radar HUDFree Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[13:16] Tanoujin Milestone: i am ready to discuss it
[13:17] Bagheera Kristan: I could happily disagree. I was there this morning and I noticed new citizens have moved in
[13:17] Bagheera Kristan: Anti’s parcel is beautiful, by the way
[13:17] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, anti knows how to make gardens
[13:17] Shep: Ok .. then I propose we bite the bullet and ditch LA
[13:17] Bagheera Kristan: There were two others that were new and not government or Tan’s projects
[13:18] Bagheera Kristan: Opposed
[13:18] Shep: Discuss
[13:18] Tanoujin Milestone: wb, Lilith
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: thanks
[13:18] Tanoujin Milestone: would you name them, Bags?
[13:18] Shep: wb Lil
[13:18] Bagheera Kristan: I want to but I would have to go back and look
[13:18] Bagheera Kristan: I didn’t write them down
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: thanks Shep
[13:18] Bagheera Kristan: I noticed Anti and then two others by the river. Tor has a new place I think
[13:19] Tanoujin Milestone: I will keep my holdings during this term. Anyone can start a project there
[13:19] Shep: Bags they are doing it to keep the sim ticking over
[13:19] Shep: Its not because they want to be there
[13:20] Bagheera Kristan: Where are our new citizens settling?
[13:20] Bagheera Kristan: who are a new new citizens?
[13:20] Shep: What new citizens?
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: I might have missed we got new citizens 🙁
[13:20] Tanoujin Milestone: Have you noticed Cadence?
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: didn´t see any land scanner message about new citizens
[13:20] Bagheera Kristan: and Cadence has been very busy in LA
[13:21] Tanoujin Milestone: Yes. I hope we can welcome her at the guild soon. She is living in NFS
[13:21] Bagheera Kristan: Anyways, I’m not ready to give up on LA yet, because I believe giving up on LA would be giving up on CDS
[13:21] Bagheera Kristan: but I am just one voice and can be overruled
[13:22] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory raises her hand
[13:22] Shep: Lil
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: in my opinion we should give a try what we figured out at the previous LA meetings first
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: there have been a lot of good ideas about changing the covenent and adding more water
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: but somehow this got stck
[13:23] Shep: This is the point with CDS
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: stuck
[13:23] Tanoujin Milestone: Isn’t the chair of the development working group present here atm?
[13:23] Shep: things start the right way and then it all stops
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: that´s CS at it´s bset I´m afraid 🙁
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: best
[13:24] Tanoujin Milestone: we can do better. Easily
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: imo we should give it one more try next term before we dump LA
[13:24] Tanoujin Milestone: we need a regional meeting in every case
[13:24] Tanoujin Milestone: and we need to contact alexia
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: and we need to ask the guild to take care about it
[13:25] Shep: I just honesrly don’t see how we can get new citizens
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: imo a mediteran theme is more tempting for new citizens than our roman theme
[13:25] Shep: Yes she could have the two plots on CN by the river
[13:25] Tanoujin Milestone: Bags, excuse me, are you still the chair of the development group for LA
[13:25] Tanoujin Milestone: ?
[13:26] Bagheera Kristan: well, I had meant to do more activities – the one chariot race I held did get new people to come. but IRL – my dad has been sick and my time has been limited
[13:26] Shep: That group did’nt develop did it
[13:26] Bagheera Kristan: no
[13:26] Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂 i so know what you mean, Bags, really
[13:26] Shep: Rosie was going to help if I recall
[13:26] Bagheera Kristan: I apologize, I dropped teh ball
[13:26] Bagheera Kristan: I’d really like to try again
[13:27] Tanoujin Milestone: I just want you to realize there is support
[13:27] Bagheera Kristan: thank you
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: as far as I know a lot of people were willing to support a change of the theme
[13:27] Tanoujin Milestone: let us give it another try. Go back to that discussions
[13:27] Bagheera Kristan: yes
[13:28] Shep: Yes but a new one was’nt chosen
[13:28] Shep: Just like everything else
[13:28] Bagheera Kristan: there was discussion to make it broader – more recent Mediterranean
[13:28] Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Calli
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli 🙂
[13:28] Callipygian Christensen: hi hi
[13:28] Shep: Hi Calli 🙂
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: exactly
[13:29] Bagheera Kristan: hi Calli 🙂
[13:29] Bagheera Kristan: if I am not holding a governmetn office next term, can I still head up the committee?
[13:29] Tanoujin Milestone: sure, why not?
[13:29] Shep: But that has’nt been made official
[13:29] Bagheera Kristan: okay
[13:30] Shep: Yes Bags
[13:30] Tanoujin Milestone: You can do even more, Bags
[13:31] Tanoujin Milestone: you can take the parcels we hold and demonstrate the concept
[13:31] Tanoujin Milestone: possibly people join
[13:31] Shep: That’s a good idea
[13:31] Bagheera Kristan: yes
[13:31] Shep: But there is l;and for sale everywhere atm
[13:32] Tanoujin Milestone: it could be for sale with prefabs
[13:32] Bagheera Kristan: well, I know things that don’t involve sim changes, but just getting people to look around – races, primtionary, hunts, that sort of thing too
[13:32] Shep: Ok .. lrys say after the election .. we have a doo or die push on LA
[13:32] Bagheera Kristan: sounds good
[13:33] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone nods
[13:33] Shep: Ok well we’ll come back to it in a few weeks
[13:34] Shep: Anymore on the subject?
[13:34] Tanoujin Milestone: done so far
[13:34] Shep: ok moving on
[13:35] Shep: No old business .. so to new business
[13:35] Tanoujin Milestone: brb
[13:35] Shep: Bags .. would you like to outline your idea?
[13:35] Bagheera Kristan: yes, I have a long piece to cut and paste, shall I wait for Tan to return?
[13:35] Shep: yes please
[13:36] Bagheera Kristan: okay – well the short version is I am withdrawing the idea of the Amendment but I have something I’d like to say… I will wait
[13:36] Tanoujin Milestone: b, sorry
[13:36] Shep: Ok .. Bags go ahead
[13:36] Bagheera Kristan: this will be a big block of text – shouldI do it in chunks or all at once?
[13:36] Shep: wb Tan
[13:37] Bagheera Kristan: I will do it in chunks
[13:37] Shep: Once
[13:37] Shep: then we can discuss it
[13:37] Bagheera Kristan: okay, all at once, here it is…
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: wb
[13:37] Bagheera Kristan: It seems, from the discussion on the forum, that people don’t feel there is a need or are opposed to the Amendment I’ve proposed, so I am withdrawing my proposal and/or am open to changes to make it acceptable IF people still think it is a viable topic. At this point, it sounds like it isn’t.

That said, I would like to address the underlying reason for suggesting it, which is my experiences with grossly out of covenant objects rezzed – such as the bumper cars on a floating platform, or a mega rock music stage on the Quay, or a large ferris wheel. All of these things have happened. They were all actions by the Chancellor…and so the real issue, in my mind, and as I have posted on the forums, is the limitations or lack thereof on the Chancellor and government officers.

The interpretation of some, to the Constitution, is the Chancellor can pretty much do anything they want. I read it that the Chancellor is limited in that they cannot go grossly outside covenant. It appears – from reading the archives –
[13:37] Bagheera Kristan: that the Chancellor may have had those powers at some point, but the present incarnation of the Constitution and Covenants – specifically the Constitution – seems to me to limit the Chancellor from making gross changes outside covenant, even on a temporary basis (since no time frame for the limitation is given, it just says, cannot change covenant to sim or ANY part).

To be clear, I do NOT care about historical accuracy. I am mostly thinking optimistically about how things will be when the sims are full up with citizens…and how things that appear okay to do now because no one is there to complain, would not be appropriate.la

I DO think Calli’s suggestion in the forums about using our public spaces – such as the amphitheater parcel, which is quite large, to have travelling fairs or such – and outside covenant, is a great idea.

I realize this may all be for the next RA to review and discuss.
[13:38] Bagheera Kristan: done
[13:38] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen waves hand
[13:39] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone has read through and leans back
[13:40] Bagheera Kristan: please take this with the kindest of intentions too
[13:40] Shep: Calli
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen: a couple of things
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen: Thankyou – I interpret the wording ‘cannot change the *theme* to mean just that..Chancellor cannot declare Neif is going to be a middle eastern medieval port for example
[13:41] Lilith IvoryLilith Ivory nods
[13:41] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone listens
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen: as to temporary uses, I believe the Chancellor does have the right to allow things,
[13:42] Callipygian Christensen: That said, I was one of the people asking Treb to get Neuf parcels back into covenant..I am NOT anti_covenant..quite the opposite.
[13:43] Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
[13:43] Shep: Bags
[13:43] Callipygian Christensen: thus my suggestion of fairgrounds – it removes the perception/option of favouritism, of bad neighbours, of planned events being cancelled when complaints come in
[13:43] Shep: oop sorry Calli
[13:44] Callipygian Christensen: Follow history…put all those travelling merchants and riffraff out in the pastures where they belong! 🙂 Done
[13:44] Shep: 🙂
[13:44] Shep: Bags
[13:44] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone appplauds
[13:44] Bagheera Kristan: okay, well then maybe ONE component of my amendment would be worthwhile, which is the concept of notification beforehand, instead of logging in one morning thinking I’ll have peace and quiet and getting a view of death skulls on the quay instead – quite a surprise
[13:44] Bagheera Kristan: yes, I love your idea, Calli
[13:44] Shep: As do I Calli
[13:45] Tanoujin Milestone: me raises hand
[13:45] Callipygian Christensen: Trees make a lovely screen to block view of things like that *nod*
[13:46] Callipygian Christensen: But any major ‘fair’ would have notification …can build that in to the use outlines
[13:46] Bagheera Kristan: I was looking at the amphitheater site, currently the aqueduct is sort of out there, taking up space – I was thinking of rebuilding the aqueduct to act as a line of sight block (partial)
[13:47] Bagheera Kristan: that is another discussion, sorry – the notification seems a reasonable burden
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: I need to have a look at this space again but have problems to imagine how bumber cars could fit in there
[13:47] Bagheera Kristan: I measured, they do
[13:47] Tanoujin Milestone: hand?
[13:48] Tanoujin Milestone: I#d like to hear the Chancellor here on the notification aspect – does it rise a threshold? Is it doable? Who should do the notification?
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Notification I agree was the problem with the fair proposed by Naf and Ria
[13:49] Shep: Well I was taken by surprise on that
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: It was a spontaneous effort and obviously lack of early communication of the intention to all caused a problem.
[13:50] Tanoujin Milestone: tsk, we should not choke all spontaneity
[13:50] Tanoujin Milestone: sorry, I have to insist
[13:50] Shep: No .. and they were grest fun
[13:50] Shep: shame they got taken away
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: (I have to leave so throw this out with apologies for out of order- we have both a calendar, events forum, and inworld notices – not hard to post ‘A Request for use of the fairgrounds for a hippy beltane celebration on these dates’
[13:51] Tanoujin Milestone: a request? That would be enough?
[13:51] Tanoujin Milestone: public request?
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: since the whole idea of fairgrounds is ‘away from most residences’ its really just an FYI at that point)
[13:52] Shep: Yes exactly
[13:52] Callipygian Christensen: Tan..the Chancellor posts that he/she received a request
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I do think a fair ground is a good idea btw
[13:52] Shep: Yes so do I
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[13:52] Callipygian Christensen: ok..off i go to the RL committee i chair..later all!
[13:52] Tanoujin Milestone: I have heard your time is almost up, thanks for that constructive contribution, Calli
[13:53] Bagheera Kristan: bye Calli
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: see you Calli 🙂
[13:53] Shep: Byeee Calli 🙂
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I think tho the fair was not planned and the back lash was almost immediate.
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Callie
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: see you
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: Tensions were raised quickly.
[13:54] Shep: I thought that went well
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: In some part I might ad by Cleo.
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: sure.
[13:54] Shep: Please .. no more of that name
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:54] Shep: this gets posted
[13:54] Tanoujin Milestone: my tinnitus 🙂
[13:55] Shep whispers: LOL
[13:55] Shep: Ok
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Hearing?
[13:55] Tanoujin Milestone: fine, could we outline a new procedure?
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Struggles to find a latin dictionary.
[13:55] Tanoujin Milestone: so, how is it done to hold such an event?
[13:55] Shep: I propose we use the land around the amphitheatre as a fairground
[13:56] Bagheera Kristan: In my amendment, I had suggested 3 day advance notice – does that sound like a reasonable time frame – allows some spontaneity?
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Well our most current precedent are Oktoberfest.
[13:56] Shep: RA sleeps
[13:57] Bagheera Kristan: I send your proposal, Shep
[13:57] Bagheera Kristan: sorry
[13:57] Bagheera Kristan: second
[13:57] Bagheera Kristan: second
[13:57] Shep: lol
[13:57] Bagheera Kristan: gargh
[13:57] Shep: thx and vote
[13:57] Bagheera Kristan: aye
[13:57] Shep: aye
[13:57] Tanoujin Milestone: wait a moment, this is a little quick
[13:57] Shep: Tan
[13:58] Tanoujin Milestone: darn, nay then – i need to sleep on it, sorry
[13:58] Shep: No itv is’nt
[13:58] Shep: OFFS
[13:58] Tanoujin Milestone: give me a minute, okay
[13:58] Shep: Not carried
[13:58] Bagheera Kristan: LOL
[13:58] Tanoujin Milestone: the suggestion is good.
[13:58] Shep: This is what CDS needs
[13:59] Bagheera Kristan: do we need a field trip?
[13:59] Tanoujin Milestone: sorry, i can not pick a parcel for a fair in 5 seconds
[13:59] Shep: We all sat here saying yes good idea
[13:59] Shep: ALL OF US
[13:59] Shep: So make it happen
[14:00] Tanoujin Milestone: i have not seen and measured that parcel i fgeel railroaded
[14:00] Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
[14:00] Tanoujin Milestone: i generally aagree on the idey
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: there might be other parcels that are as good or even better
[14:00] Tanoujin Milestone: but i need time to see the parcel
[14:01] Shep: Its position is ideal
[14:01] Shep: Bags
[14:01] Tanoujin Milestone: can we vote we will have that fair ground at cn? Bags, sorry
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: the ground besides the theatre is rather step
[14:01] Shep: No we can’t
[14:02] Shep: its too broad
[14:02] Bagheera Kristan: My thought is we could take a quick couple minutes to go take a look at it
[14:02] Shep: Then it can be leveled a little
[14:02] Bagheera Kristan: I understand it is hard to make a decision when you haven’t seen it, I actually went to look earlier
[14:02] Tanoujin Milestone: thank you bags – i want to say aye to a fairy ground at the CN *sim*
[14:03] Tanoujin Milestone: and decide on the exact parcel after that
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: didn´t the guild get the job to rebuild this place anyway?
[14:03] Tanoujin Milestone: is that okay?
[14:04] Shep: No you can’t do that .. it gives us permission to purloin a parcel
[14:04] Tanoujin Milestone: so you force me to say nay to a good idea
[14:04] Shep whispers: Where else is there common land on CN?
[14:04] Bagheera Kristan: I have a notecard which shows all the parcels in Colonia Nova – I can share it with all of you – the ownership isn’t up to date for everything but the parcel for the amphitheater is clear
[14:04] Tanoujin Milestone: that is exactly the point, shep
[14:04] Bagheera Kristan: it is the large section marked with an “n”
[14:05] Tanoujin Milestone: just because it is there is not reason enough
[14:05] Tanoujin Milestone: can we make it old business, please? I am so inclined to say yes to that!
[14:05] Shep: I am at a loss
[14:05] Tanoujin Milestone: it is just the question what parcel
[14:06] Tanoujin Milestone: aye to the overall idea
[14:06] Shep: It has to be common land
[14:06] Tanoujin Milestone: but – not yet sure which parcel
[14:06] Bagheera Kristan: Shep I have given you a notecard that isa parcel map for Colonia Nova – you may make it public
[14:06] Tanoujin Milestone: I move to table this until the next meeting – otherwise my vote is nay
[14:07] Tanoujin Milestone: I have people to represent, i want to talk with them
[14:07] Shep: ok its in the box
[14:08] Shep: Map of parcels on CN folks
[14:08] Bagheera Kristan: the amphitheater parcel is the upper right section marked as “n” with circles around them
[14:08] Tanoujin Milestone: I know where it is ‘sigh
[14:09] Tanoujin Milestone: you make it really hard to compromise
[14:09] Shep: Who me?
[14:09] Tanoujin Milestone: what is the issue with giving me time to think of a decision?
[14:09] Tanoujin Milestone: you both, yes
[14:09] Shep: None
[14:10] Shep: You sat there saying it was a good idea by Calli
[14:10] Tanoujin Milestone: please table it, let us have it old business and discuss which parcel exactly
[14:10] Shep: I liked it
[14:10] Shep: Tor Liked it
[14:10] Tanoujin Milestone: Shep: 1. the idea is good
[14:10] Tanoujin Milestone: 2. which parcel: not sure
[14:11] Shep: I’ll mark it old business
[14:11] Tanoujin Milestone: thank you very much
[14:11] Tanoujin Milestone: i will work on it
[14:11] Shep: Why not it’s how everything else works here
[14:11] Tanoujin Milestone: you get your decision next time
[14:12] Shep: Ok no copmmissions to report
[14:12] Shep: Tor do we have an exec report?
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Well sure
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: short one
[14:12] Shep: Ok then you have the floor
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: We had a meeting for SL10B panning on April 28th
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: The meeting went well. I posted the transcripts to the forum
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Lil will build build some sort of a Rathaus and anti will build a meeting garden
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: WE will be asking the community for artifacts, pics and notecards to describe our community
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: The SL10B will open on June 16th.
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Jamie has purchsed the two prim parcels in AM.
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: So that is good and actually AM is very well sold right now.
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I have also seen some movement in CN.
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: We did have an unfortunate affair with two new citzens who did not want to pay monthly tier.
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: One turned out to be a griefer and was banned.
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: The has purchased parcels in Monastery and were not building in accordance with the covenants.
[14:17] Tanoujin Milestone: 🙂
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Then one got very angry when I asked him to pay tier.
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: Other than that, we where fairly stable in the the last month.
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: done.
[14:18] Pip TorokPip Torok remembers he was looking for an excuse to grief …
[14:18] Shep: Thanks Tor
[14:18] Shep: Pip?
[14:19] Pip Torok: sorry … etraneous comment … pls desregard
[14:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
[14:19] Shep: Tor
[14:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh I just wanted to add that Ranma has started a CDS based RFL group.
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope we can all support her in this effort.
[14:20] Shep: Ok
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks, done
[14:20] Tanoujin Milestone: Can you invite me to that group, Tor?
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I will, I think i need to look for my invite.
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: 🙂
[14:21] Shep: Ok no announcements
[14:21] Shep: Next meeting .. 3 weeks ok?
[14:22] Tanoujin Milestone: 4!
[14:22] Shep: Sunday 26th May at 1 pm again?
[14:22] Tanoujin Milestone: 1st of june?
[14:22] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, okay
[14:22] Tanoujin Milestone: fine with it
[14:22] Shep: Cool .. it will be short
[14:23] Shep: There will be one 2nd June
[14:23] Tanoujin Milestone: understood finally
[14:23] Shep: also short
[14:23] Tanoujin Milestone: bear with me
[14:24] Shep: Its ok hun
[14:24] Tanoujin Milestone: I move to adjourn
[14:24] Shep: OK I propose we adjourn
[14:24] Bagheera Kristan: 2nded
[14:24] Tanoujin Milestone: 😉
[14:24] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[14:24] Shep: aye
[14:24] Bagheera Kristan: aye
[14:24] Shep: done

Permalink.

17th Representative Assembly (8)

Swearing in of 17th RA and Meeting 26 May 2012

Callipygian Christensen: Shep..since you are all hee, can we move the swearing in up to now?
Shep (shep.titian): ok well we can go wild for 27 minutes lol
Shep (shep.titian): Drat!!
Trajan Hallard is Online
Shep (shep.titian): lol yes of course Calli
Callipygian Christensen: I think sending out a notice inworld that it is happening and giving a few minutes for anyone wishing to to head over would be fine
Shep (shep.titian): ok
Shep (shep.titian): Will do
Callipygian Christensen: Woud mebers of the incoming RA care to lay claim to a cushion?
Arria Perreault is Online
Tanoujin Milestone is glad to witness such a great meeting
Callipygian Christensen: Tanoujin
Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Okay, I feel lonely over here, lol
Pip Torok: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Switch over
Rosie Gray: hehe
Shep (shep.titian):
Callipygian Christensen: we will wait a few more minutes in case any citizens are strolling over
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): *drawbacks of a tiny screen-can’t see everyone, lol*
Callipygian Christensen: Did everyone recieve the notecard with the affirmation?
Derrek Scatter is Offline
Shep (shep.titian): Nope
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): I did
Callipygian Christensen: oh sorry Shep..didnt want to drop it while you were chairing..one second
Callipygian Christensen gave you CDS RA Affirmation of Office.
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Calli
Callipygian Christensen: In the past the Dean of the SC has temporarily chaired the first meeting of the incoming RA to call for nominations for LRA and take the vote count
Callipygian Christensen: Is that acceptable to all of you today?
Pip Torok: it is ….
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Yes
Shep (shep.titian): Yes
Beathan Vale: yes
Trajan Hallard is Offline
Callipygian Christensen: Then as Dean of the Scientific Council it is my pleasure and priviledge to adminster the Oath of Office to the members of the 17th Representative Assembly of the CDS
Callipygian Christensen: We will do this alphabetically
Callipygian Christensen: Incoming mebers of the RA, the affirmation of office is a public declaration that in the office to which you have been duly elected, you will solomnly affirm to uphold the Constitution of the CDS and take the duties of the RA seriously
Callipygian Christensen: so Beathan, please if you would, insert your own name into the RA affirmation and read the text into the local cha
Beathan Vale: I, Beathan Vale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Callipygian Christensen: Moonrise?
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): I, Moonrise Azalee, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Callipygian Christensen: Pip?
Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Callipygian Christensen: Shep?
Shep (shep.titian): I, Shep Titian, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Callipygian Christensen: Congratulations to all of you!
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) smiles
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): thank you!
Rosie Gray: congratulations everyone!
Lilith Ivory: congrats
Pip Torok: Thank you, Calli
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you :):)
Rosie Gray: Â·Â·â€¢Â°â€¢Â·Â·..â˜º Applauds! â˜º ..Â·Â·â€¢Â°â€¢Â·Â·..
Lilith Ivory applauds
Shep (shep.titian): Well done guys
Callipygian Christensen: I call to order the first meeting of the 17th Ra and invite nominations for LRA
Rosie Gray is a multitude unto herself when it comes to clapping
Shep (shep.titian): I nominate myself
Pip Torok: I propose Shep Titian as LRA
Beathan Vale: second
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): I also propose Shel Titian as LRA
Shep (shep.titian): lol many hands clapping Rosie
Callipygian Christensen: We’ll allow the record to show that Pip nominated you and Beathan seconded
Beathan Vale: I move we approve Shep by universal acclamation
Shep (shep.titian): Wow thanks kiddies
Rosie Gray: yay, Shehp!
Callipygian Christensen: can i have a second to Beathan’s motion?
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): second
Pip Torok: CONGRATS!!!
Callipygian Christensen: all in favour?
Pip Torok: aye
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): aye
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you all .. now bow
Beathan Vale: aye
Callipygian Christensen: Congratulations Shep – and I hand the chair of this meeting over to you.
Delia Lake: Congratulations, Shep!
Lilith Ivory: Congrats Shep
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you for your help Calli
Callipygian Christensen: Please ensure someone is given the task of posting a transcript
Tanoujin Milestone: Have a successful term, Reps!
Shep (shep.titian): I’ll stay in place .. I think our only task today is the time of the next meeting
Pip Torok: tks, Tan
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Tan
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) grins
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Tan
Shep (shep.titian): So Next Saturday ok?
Lilith Ivory: bye all I need to go for now
Shep (shep.titian): I suggest 9 am again
Pip Torok: for me yes
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Lilith
Lilith Ivory is Offline
Shep (shep.titian): Bye hun
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 9am Saturday works for me
Pip Torok: bye Lil
Rosie Gray: bye Lilith
Shep (shep.titian): cool Razzy
Shep (shep.titian): Good Pip
Shep (shep.titian): Well Fire breather??
Pip Torok: cool, Shep? .. with THIS RL temperature??
Callipygian Christensen: I have to head out..good work today everyone!
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks again Calli
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Calli!
Pip Torok: bye Calli and tks
Callipygian Christensen is Offline
Shep (shep.titian): Beathan does not recognise himself as a fire breather
Sudane Erato: thx all again
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) grins
DocJoshua (docjoshua.runner) is Online
Rosie Gray: nice work everyone!
Delia Lake: me too, back to rl tiling my new shower. bye everyone
Rosie Gray: and for me, painting my bedroom closet
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Delia!
Rosie Gray: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Enjoy Delioa
Rosie Gray: bye now
Pip Torok: thats why the back of my neck’s warm …
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) laughs at Pip
Rosie Gray is Offline
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Rosie
Tanoujin Milestone: off i am. see you around!
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Tan
Pip Torok: bye Rosie .. and tks for the work youve done
Shep (shep.titian): Beathan is next Sat at 9 am ok for you?
Shep (shep.titian): Ok I suggest we adjourn
Pip Torok: seconded
Shep (shep.titian): Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Tiger Arrowmint is Online
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): aye
Shep (shep.titian): Cool again

Permalink.

RA Meeting 16 June 2012

Re: 16 June 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:36 am
Shep Titian: Ok folks .. call this meeting to order
Pip Torok: Hi .. pleased to see you !
Shep Titian: Hi Anna
Moonrise Azalee: Hello Anna!
Pip Torok: hi Anna .. pleased to see you!
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Shep
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Pip
Anna Toussaint: Hi everyone
Anna Toussaint: Hi Razzy
Shep Titian: There is a copy of the agenda in the CDS box … and please note if you speak you consent to being recorded
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Shep Titian: OK anyone have any problems with the agenda?
Moonrise Azalee: Not me
Pip Torok: no Mme LRA
Beathan Vale: No
Shep Titian: Anna ?
Anna Toussaint: nope
Shep Titian: Ok so approved
Shep Titian: I see Trebor here ,.. will you be wanting to speak on the budget Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: If it is needed I can. There were no questions or feedback on the forums so Im assuming everyoen is fine with it.
Shep Titian: ok
Shep Titian: Citizens concerns?
Beathan Vale: I’m wondering if there is any way to not run a deficit — I don’t like planned deficits if they can be avoided
Shep Titian: Any of you have a burning question:)?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes bring more people in
Shep Titian: Ok RA have any concerns?
Trebor Warcliffe: Our fixed expenses are just that “fixed” and our other expenses I was very conservative with.
Pip Torok: just one ….
Beathan Vale: I know — I’m OK with that — but it is outside the budget — is there anything that can be done inside the budget — can something be provisional unless we grow?
Beathan Vale: I didn’t see anything myself — I just want the question raised and formally addressed
Shep Titian: Could you two wait for the appropriate time
Beathan Vale: kk
Anna Toussaint: I move we ratify the budget as written
Shep Titian: When we get there Anna
Pip Torok: some citizens have expressed concern about the problems of grouped memebers getting on the voters list
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: ooops
Shep Titian: Any old business rattling around?
Anna Toussaint: sorry
Anna Toussaint: calli wants to swear me in
Callipygian Christensen thinks it might be good to do that before you get to voting
Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe
Moonrise Azalee grins
Anna Toussaint: or making motions
Pip Torok: good idea!
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: They have had months to get themselves sorted Pip .. what are they finding difficult?
Anna Toussaint: are we talking about the same thing?
Anna Toussaint: I need to be sworn in by a member of the judiciary
Shep Titian: Pip brought up a concern I was waiting for him to expand on it
Beathan Vale: I jumpws the gun on the bduget because thought it was about to proceed without discussion
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand a bit more
Shep Titian: Ok Pip seems done
Shep Titian: Calli if you would be so kind
Anna Toussaint: please call on Calli, madame chair
Beathan Vale: I have a question for Calli before we move on
Anna Toussaint:
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Pip Torok: have bought up the concern .. i will discuss it with trebor if he is willing
Callipygian Christensen: Before we affirmmAnna?
Beathan Vale: no
Tanoujin Milestone: ceremony
Callipygian Christensen: Anna, the affirmation of office is a public declaration that in the office to which you have been duly elected, you will solomnly affirm to uphold the Constitution of the CDS and take the duties of the RA seriously
Anna Toussaint: I, Anna Toussaint, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Pip Torok: CLAP!!!!
Callipygian Christensen: congratulatiosns Anna
Anna Toussaint: yay
Moonrise Azalee: yay!
Callipygian Christensen: done
Trebor Warcliffe applauds
Moonrise Azalee laughs
Guillaume Mistwalker claps.
Tanoujin Milestone: congrats, Anna
Shep Titian: Well done Anna
Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
Anna Toussaint: hey, G … I didn’t see you
Anna Toussaint: hi, rosie!
Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi!
Rosie Gray: ?
Shep Titian: Thanks Calli
Beathan Vale: OK — question for Calli, if I may
Shep Titian: Ok .. Budget .. could we have some small discussion before the proposal please
Beathan Vale: Shep — wait
Shep Titian: Beathan do you want to speak
Beathan Vale: First — question for Calli — Calli — this last two weeks, Pat has done a lot of work (and great work) organizing the statute books and record of the Constitution. Is that what you had in mind last session? If so, is there anythign else that remains to be done? If not, what needs to be done?
Callipygian Christensen: I’ve been absent from keyboard almost totally for a number of days Beathan, with an injury so haven’t read through, but I suspect not
Beathan Vale: OK — review his work and email me
Callipygian Christensen: Archiving of laws and changing of wording would have to come through RA, so those parts certainly arent done
Callipygian Christensen: I sent you an e-mail with a number of examples?
Shep Titian: I think Pat is doing sterling work with it .. and is happy to continue
Beathan Vale: I think I got that — but then things got busy again and I didn’t lookat it closely — then Pat did his work, which I think goes a long way to your goal
Callipygian Christensen: ok..so then should I forward that e-mail to Pat instead?
Pip Torok raises hand
Shep Titian: He’s enjoying doing it Calli
Beathan Vale: No — I’m still doing it — I just don’t want to go down a path if Pat has already cleared something up
Shep Titian: Ok
Shep Titian: Can we get back on track now?
Trebor Warcliffe: So get together with Pat, beathan.
Shep Titian: Pip?
Beathan Vale: yes
Pip Torok: can we assume Pat will be doing the minutes as before?
Shep Titian: Yes he is
Pip Torok: :] Shep Titian: Ok BUDGET
Shep Titian: Beathan you wanted to say something?
Beathan Vale: Is there any way to balance the budget internally? Nothing sprang out at me — it looks lean — but perhaps something could be priorized to “provisional” status pending an increase in revenue or something
Shep Titian: Well the chancellor can come back to us if needed .. should the outlook improve
Trebor Warcliffe: Salaries were eliminated, some expenses are fixed, and others I went very conservative with.
Trebor Warcliffe: And even if we operate in a slight deficit we will not have to use any of our reserves
Beathan Vale: How is that possible?
Shep Titian: I personally feel events is a bit low .. if we are using them to draw folks in
Beathan Vale: Shep, I agree
Moonrise Azalee: I agree also
Trebor Warcliffe: I also lowballed hte estimate on revenue due to our low population
Beathan Vale: I just want to make sure we think things through
Trebor Warcliffe: The easiest way to improve our finances is to bring more people in.
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Shep Titian: Yes but we need some carrots
Trebor Warcliffe: With all due respect everyoen had over two weeks to”think things through”
Shep Titian: Razzy?
Beathan Vale: OK — I’m satisfied
Trebor Warcliffe: Sadly I must leave for now
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: I move we ratify the budget as written
Shep Titian: Ok Treb
Shep Titian: I think we can ratify
Pip Torok: seconded
Moonrise Azalee: I just wanted to say that I do agree that events help to draw people in. It’s the best way to show that the CDS is a great place to Live work AND play
Trebor Warcliffe: Please email me with any questions thank you
Shep Titian: Vote
Anna Toussaint: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Shep Titian: Its ratified
Moonrise Azalee: woot!
Shep Titian: well done Trebor
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: yes, good job
Shep Titian: Ok next thing .. Calli requested we look at the timing for new laws and giving citizens sufficient time to assimilate them
Shep Titian: Any thoughts
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand a bit higher
Shep Titian: Sorry Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: Just a comment here on the budget and the ‘no salaries’
Shep Titian: ok
Beathan Vale: I would support making all laws effective only on close of the RA session, without a finding of emergency — provided we have clear standards for what an emergency is — which can be reviewed by SC — but that might be TOO slow
Callipygian Christensen: NL 4-26 Public Information Act states as part of the law that the PIO will be paid 1000L a month
Callipygian Christensen: it’s possible thats been amended somewhere, but if it hasn’t, you might want to loook at that
Shep Titian: I believe Trebor is not seeking a PIO
Beathan Vale: The law might require a PIO and might rewuire payment — we need to look at that
Callipygian Christensen: /eme nods, just pointing it out as something to be aware of
Shep Titian: Wonders if it’s law that he has one
Shep Titian: Might SC be able to tell us?
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep Titian: Rosie
Callipygian Christensen: Of course, it also says the PIO is appointed by the Guildmaster
Rosie Gray: thanks Shep… just wanted
Moonrise Azalee: oh dear
Callipygian Christensen: (as an example of my ‘let’s clean up all the old archaiclanguage)
Rosie Gray: to point out that Aliasi is receiving a salary… I just wanted to know what it was for
Rosie Gray: thanks
Beathan Vale: OH joy — I suggest that whenever the RA abolishs arms of govt or associated entities, we include a term in the legislation describing how references in other standing laws are to be amended to harmonize
Shep Titian: Is she? I thought all were stopped now?
Rosie Gray: it’s on the last financial statement
Anna Toussaint: she is prolly the cleaner-upper
Anna Toussaint: whatever that’s called
Rosie Gray notes that lots of people clean-up
Anna Toussaint: L:ilith did it for years
Anna Toussaint: yes, they do
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan – that info should be appended to the appropriate laws for easy reference also
Beathan Vale: I think she owns the infohub irl — and it might be rent not salary
Anna Toussaint: the infohub what?
Shep Titian: Ok .. well we need that Trebor be here to explain that and he;s not .. so moving on .. and noted
Rosie Gray: what infohub?
Callipygian Christensen: I believe Aliasi’s salary has always been as content archivist for CDS no?
Anna Toussaint: ah
Beathan Vale: Calli — I agree — but I also think that a guiding backup to handle what we miss makes sense
Anna Toussaint: yes, that’s right Calli
Graduation Diploma 1: Congratulations graduate!
Moonrise Azalee: the man of the hour
Shep Titian: Hi Trebor
Rosie Gray: perhaps we could know what is actually being done in that regard then, to know if it is warranted still
Rosie Gray: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
Rosie Gray: Trebor
Moonrise Azalee: Now we can ask
Anna Toussaint: Treb … what are we paying Aliasi for?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand forthe ‘notification of citizenry’ thing when we get ack to it
Trebor Warcliffe: I’ve got about 20 minutes left
Shep Titian: Yes if we can kee it bref
Trebor Warcliffe: Web Hosting Fee
Anna Toussaint: ok
Moonrise Azalee: ahh
Trebor Warcliffe: $10.00 US a month
Beathan Vale: that’s what I thought
Shep Titian: Thank yoou
Rosie Gray: ah okay
Trebor Warcliffe: yw
Shep Titian: Now maybe we can discuss the subject on the table
Rosie Gray: ahem
Beathan Vale: OK — the boxes don’t match — why don’t they match
Shep Titian: Yes Rosie
Rosie Gray: sorry but I think that doesn’t match what it says on the financial statement
Rosie Gray: Mizou is paid for the web hosting
Rosie Gray: it says Aliasi monthly pay
Shep Titian: The budgety is ratified
Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie
Shep Titian: tsk
Beathan Vale: 2 websites — 1. forums; 2. infohub
Shep Titian: budget
Trebor Warcliffe: I believe you may be looking at last terms budget
Trebor Warcliffe: this terms budget is on the last page
Rosie Gray: May, 28, 2012
Trebor Warcliffe: Payment Request form on teh May financials?
Rosie Gray: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: That was last term
Rosie Gray: is that changed now then?
Shep Titian: Can we move on please you can argue about this later
Trebor Warcliffe: May was the last month of last term
Rosie Gray: ok, sorry
Rosie Gray shuts up
Shep Titian: thank you
Tanoujin Milestone: notification?
Shep Titian: ok as asked already .. How long dop we feel we should give as notice of new laws etc to give leeway for cittizens to comply
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: It isn’t just ‘how long’..it’s also ‘how’
Pip Torok raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan..it isnt about when laws come into effect either
Callipygian Christensen: each time something affecting citizens is passed there is a debate ..’maybe we send them all an e-mail’..or a notecard…
Beathan Vale: we could use the Persian method — require every law be passed twice — once while drunk and then while sober — and allow consideration in the meantime
Shep Titian: Yes the whole process
Beathan Vale: ah– OK
Moonrise Azalee grins at Beathan
Shep Titian: lol
Callipygian Christensen: ‘they might only sing in once a month to pay tier’..and that now could be ‘only log in once every three months’…
Pip Torok raises hand again
Beathan Vale: Could we post on the CDS group discussion? Or is that too buggy?
Beathan Vale: We typically do post on the forums — but people say no one reads them
Callipygian Christensen: so how are citizens to be notified, and ideally what timeframe should be attached
Shep Titian: We can certainly post yes .. but how much hand holding should we do
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Pip Torok suggests we ask what stops the reading it…
Callipygian Christensen: (keeping in mind that citizens have a responsibility to stay informed and therefore to check one of the sources of info that is designated)
Moonrise Azalee agrees with Calli
Beathan Vale: Can we put up an inworld access to the RA portion of the forums?
Shep Titian: Exactly Calli
Anna Toussaint: I agree with Calli as well
Trebor Warcliffe Trebor strongly agrees with Calli
Shep Titian: they know the kind of way we do things
Pip Torok: so does Pip
Moonrise Azalee: A notecard, and a forum post.
Anna Toussaint: would a two week period before the law goes into effect plus a posting do it?
Callipygian Christensen: Razzy, with respect, the notecard thing is a huge amount of work that I thik is unreasonable
Beathan Vale: notecard distrtibution to all citizens seems problematic
Moonrise Azalee: I actually meant group notice…
Moonrise Azalee: sorry
Trebor Warcliffe: Forum posting is the easiest and permenent way in my opinion
Pip Torok wd suggest reading the Forums be presented as one of the things a citizen does .. all to be put in the welcome-book
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: Personally I think forum posting and in world group posting should be enough
Moonrise Azalee agrees with Pip
Rosie Gray agrees with Calli and Pip
Callipygian Christensen: I just want it established as ‘yes, that is sufficient notification’
Shep Titian: We can add a note to a group notification as Razzy suggested
Moonrise Azalee: Forum, Group Notice and mention in the welcome handbook to check such thigns.
Shep Titian: Soro
Soro Dagostino: Points been covered.
Anna Toussaint: I move that sufficient notification be considered an in world group posting + a forum posting.
Shep Titian: kk
Pip Torok: second
Callipygian Christensen: I would suggest attaching a timeframe of 14 days or something
Anna Toussaint: yes
Beathan Vale: I thnk that is a SC issue not a RA one
Beathan Vale: unless we pass a notification statute
Anna Toussaint: may I amend my motion?
Shep Titian: Yes Anna
Beathan Vale: in which case — we would have passed the notification statute without notice — not a great way to start
Anna Toussaint: the motion would be that which I said plus “and that a two week time frame be allowed before each law goes into effect”
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Rosie Gray: ?
Shep Titian: Well no Beathan as its for us to do not them
Callipygian Christensen: /e waves her hand yet again
Pip Torok: i second the amended motion
Beathan Vale: Point of ORder — procedural motions should apply only to the sitting session of the RA; governance issues should be by statute, not motion
Shep Titian: Vote
Shep Titian: Aye
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand
Pip Torok: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Anna Toussaint: beathan has a good point, though
Shep Titian: Calli
Beathan Vale: nay — but only because I think this is an ultra vires issue as presented; I support the principle and think we should pass an appropriate statute after proper process
Callipygian Christensen: This isnt just about laws going into effect and adding reference to laws isnt needed
Callipygian Christensen: this is about ANY official notification to the popuace
Beathan Vale: Let’s put this on the agenda for next session and prepare a proper statute. I can work with Calli and others to put it together
Shep Titian: Well by my calculation it passed .. so maybe next meeting we can repeal it
Soro Dagostino: RL calls.
Shep Titian: Bye Soro
Anna Toussaint: I kinda agree with Beathan
Anna Toussaint: for now, it did pass
Anna Toussaint: but lets replace it with a better thought out statute
Callipygian Christensen suggests you readress it now and follow Beathan’s suggestion
Shep Titian: So we’ll take it to the forum and refine it if that’s ok?
Pip Torok: agrees
Anna Toussaint: it has the force of a procedural thing
Anna Toussaint: it applies to us this session
Anna Toussaint: we can work under the motion until we do as beathan has suggested
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Lili
Anna Toussaint: Lil
Shep Titian: But we are’nt doing anything today that needs citizen notification
Lilith Ivory: Hi Anna
Lilith Ivory: Hi everybody
Callipygian Christensen: Please consider readdressing it now so that we can save the SC and yourselves a lot of time
Shep Titian: Hi Lilith
Anna Toussaint: why are we saving the SC a lot of time?
Callipygian Christensen: I suspect if you leave it as is ‘just for now’ it will be flagged
Shep Titian: Beathan you want to propose a different version?
Rosie Gray laughs
Beathan Vale: Because the SC will have to consider whether it was proper — probably invalidate it — and then we will repass it next session anyway
Anna Toussaint: which means, Calli, that you will flag it?
Callipygian Christensen pints to what Beathan said
Anna Toussaint: and why is it improper?
Beathan Vale: Otherwise we have the precedent of motions that might have statutory effect — which would be a mess
Shep Titian: Hmmm interesting
Beathan Vale: I move we rescind the motion and substitute a motion that we will prepare a statute for consideration next time
Anna Toussaint: I second
Shep Titian: Vote
Forum Wizard? Oh yeah!

Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard

Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm
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Re: 16 June 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:36 am
Shep Titian: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Shep Titian: Thank you
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Anna Toussaint: oh, well, I tried
Shep Titian: ok not on the agenda .. but we need to elect a Pro Tem
Pip Torok: i propose Anna
Shep Titian: I second
Shep Titian: vote
Pip Torok: Anna?
Shep Titian: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Beathan Vale: aye is OK with Anna; nay otherwise
Anna Toussaint: abstain
Beathan Vale: if
Anna Toussaint: its ok, Beathan
Pip Torok: aye
Beathan Vale: OK — aye then
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: Why nay Beathan?
Beathan Vale: I said aye I think
Pip Torok: (doesnt want to be dragged kicking and screaming as they do wirth the speaker in the House of Commons … )
Anna Toussaint: he said aye
Shep Titian: Yes you changed it .. I’m just nosey
Pip Torok: .. doesnt want Anna to be dragged! …
Anna Toussaint: he was going to vote nay if I di\dn’t want to be pro tem
Beathan Vale: I just wanted to make sure we weren’t drafting her
Shep Titian: Ah .. I had asked
Anna Toussaint: and I appreciated it
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: Thank you Anna
Shep Titian: Commission reports I don’t have any listed
Shep Titian: Exec reports .. any news Trebor?
Pip Torok: does the Welcoming cmttee count as a “commission” for these purposes?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Trebor Warcliffe: Ill wait for Calli to finish
Callipygian Christensen: The SC reform roup is not a commission, but to report, I’vebeen unable to spend time at the keybaord to coordinate, and will do that this coming week..also, officially, who is the second RA member now attached to the grup?
Shep Titian: Anna you had said you would do it .. is that still the case?
Beathan Vale: I don’t recall how that went — have to look at the last transcript
Anna Toussaint: I will
Shep Titian: Thank you .. Anna Calli
Callipygian Christensen: only 4 votes were cast Beathan, so barring a debate on whether its 2/3 of seats or 2/3 of votes cast, the consitutional amendment failed
Beathan Vale: I remember that — I was commenting on whether we appointed Anna or not
Callipygian Christensen: oh! sorry lol
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: We did’nt Beathan as she was’nt RA till Calli swore her
Anna Toussaint: my move is more or less complete, so I should be able to do it
Beathan Vale: OK — that makes sense — and explains why this is a fuzzy issue in my mind –relying on emotional memory here
Shep Titian: Awwwww
Shep Titian: I have to regress slightly . Trebor has a brief exec report
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like to thank Tan for her wonderful work on keeping our Available Land for Sale list up to date. I’ve been working with Shep and tonight with Anna on finishing the CDS owned kiosks. I will be meeting with Razzy on Monday about some of the duties aligned with the PIO. And I am trying to schedule a meeting with Beathan about incorporating his wonderful idea about the Great Courses into a public forum in the CDS. Beathan would you be availabe this week for an about an hour so you and I can work out the details?
Beathan Vale: I think so — I need to doublecheck my calendar — I have a broader conception to discuss with you at that time
Trebor Warcliffe: Wonderful, please let me know when we can meet. We could even make it a public meeting if you’d like
Beathan Vale: Let
Beathan Vale: Let’s do preparation work before a public meeting
Trebor Warcliffe: thats fine
Shep Titian: I’d be interested to listen
Trebor Warcliffe: Can you look at your calendar now and see when we can meet?
Pip Torok agrees knowing “public meetings”
Shep Titian: But ok if you want to be alone
Trebor Warcliffe: ok let me reword that
Trebor Warcliffe: an official meeting
Beathan Vale: I’m not against a larger meeting — shep, we can bring you in — it’s just that my thoughts are less than hlag baked — and I make a point of only bringing half baked ideas public
Trebor Warcliffe: not saying its closed to the public lol
Moonrise Azalee grins
Shep Titian: Wash you’re mouth out .. private indeed lol
Beathan Vale: I might announce it as a meeting at my house
Trebor Warcliffe: I have a new private place for private meetings lol
Shep Titian: PMSL
Trebor Warcliffe: hehehe
Beathan Vale: so – not public (at least not official ) but not closed
Trebor Warcliffe: When can we do that B?
Beathan Vale: I have to check my calendar — working this weekend and next week is fairly scheduled
Beathan Vale: but I should be able to find time somewhere in there
Trebor Warcliffe: good
Trebor Warcliffe: twarcliffe@gmail.com
Trebor Warcliffe: i have to leave all, RL calls
Moonrise Azalee: Bye Trebor
Rosie Gray: bye Treb
Shep Titian: Bye Treb
Pip Torok: bye trebor
Anna Toussaint: bye treb
Shep Titian: Ok I think we reached next meeting
Shep Titian: ooop one general announcement Razzy?
Moonrise Azalee: Thank you Shep.
Moonrise Azalee: On Friday, this one coming up, we are having a Fors Fortuna party.. a Roman themed Summer party on the beach in LA
Moonrise Azalee: Roman dress is not required, but is strongly suggested as its a great way to show off our lovely themed area
Moonrise Azalee: we are trying to organize some games… but generally Wine, Dancing, lots of fun.. a way to celebrate Summer and to celebrate good fortune
Shep Titian: I have a ‘beach’ toga
Moonrise Azalee: haha, awesome
Pip Torok is all for that!
Shep Titian: lol
Beathan Vale: my hair doubles as a helmet plume
Tanoujin Milestone looks for her pickelhaube
Pip Torok: LOL
Moonrise Azalee: Did we sort out games Shep? the volleyball sounded like a lot of fun
Shep Titian: Teehee
Rosie Gray: lol
Rosie Gray: what time will it be?
Moonrise Azalee: and we could use it for future use
Moonrise Azalee: oh
Moonrise Azalee: 3pm SLT
Shep Titian: No I’m still trying to twist Trebors arm
Moonrise Azalee: I believe Calli is gracing us with her music wizardry?
Callipygian Christensen: I belive I am
Shep Titian: Absolutely she is
Pip Torok appreciates razzys europe-friendly time
Moonrise Azalee: I hope we can splurge on good games… those ‘Carrots’ we need….
Moonrise Azalee: to display CDS as the best place to Live, Work and Play.
Shep Titian: Yes well you know I agree .. its the archery I want
Moonrise Azalee: Archery and Volleyball being two games Shep was looking at. if we could obtain those it would be awesome
Callipygian Christensen: I’ll see if my lawn darts game would work
Shep Titian: ooooh cool
Moonrise Azalee: That would be great Calli
Shep Titian: excellent
Shep Titian: ok next date .. two weeks ok?
Moonrise Azalee: Shep we should send out a notice soon as it is less than a week away
Moonrise Azalee: I agree with RA in 2 weeks
Shep Titian: yes .. will do after this meeting
Pip Torok: i agree as well
Anna Toussaint: yup
Anna Toussaint: me too
Shep Titian: ok 20th J une at 9 am ?
Beathan Vale: yep
Shep Titian: 30
Moonrise Azalee: yes
Pip Torok: LOL
Shep Titian: sorry on phone
Shep Titian: ok adjourn

Permalink.

RA Meeting 30 June 2012

Re: 30 June RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:24 am
Shep Titian: Calling meeting to order
Pip Torok: before this meeting starts I’d like to apologise to those present for being unavoidably absent since wednesday .. major hardware problem which has this minute been resolved
Shep Titian: All seen and approve agenda?
Pip Torok: approved
Beathan Vale: Man — I feel like Senator Magnuson, who was once an hour late to a meeting and when asked about it said “Don’t worry — they can’t start without me” — But Maggie was an asshole
Beathan Vale: yes
Moonrise Azalee: Seen and approved
Shep Titian: pmsl
Shep Titian: And glad its sorted Pip
Pip Torok: thsnk you, Mme LRA
Moonrise Azalee: I am also.
Shep Titian: Ok can we take it .. we have no speakers .. and no citizens here to express concerns
Moonrise Azalee: indeed, yes
Shep Titian: ok RA concerns .. any?
Pip Torok: none from here, thank you
Moonrise Azalee: not from myself.
Moonrise Azalee: not from myself.
Shep Titian: The price of alarm clocks maybe?
Pip Torok:
Shep Titian:
Moonrise Azalee: I have children, no need for alarm clocks
Shep Titian: lol
Moonrise Azalee: 9am is just bloody early some days! LMAO
Beathan Vale: well — I would like to see if we can figure out the problem raised regarding a garden in NFS — on the forum — but I’ll ty to track that down myself
Pip Torok: (my have flown .. the sun wakes me:)
Moonrise Azalee: I did not read that
Shep Titian: Ok is this the HH parcel issue?
Moonrise Azalee: There are problems regarding a garden in NFS?
Shep Titian: If its the HH issue I know about it
Beathan Vale: some code issues — sounds like Treb disapproved a garden or something
Pip Torok: my last info (wednesday) was that they had been sorted …
Beathan Vale: OK — good
Shep Titian: Was that HonestHearts plot?
Pip Torok: it was …
Shep Titian: You can call it sorted Pip .. she lrft us!!
Moonrise Azalee: ah!
Shep Titian: left
Moonrise Azalee: Well then
Pip Torok bows respecfully!
Shep Titian: That was’nt good
Moonrise Azalee: I dont see this weeks agenda for the RA
Moonrise Azalee: I could have sworn I had it
Moonrise Azalee: I was looking at it earleir
Moonrise Azalee: could someone share?
Shep Titian: I put it in the box
Moonrise Azalee: i just see the SC one in there
Moonrise Azalee: thank you
Shep Titian: yw
Shep Titian: ok moving on
Moonrise Azalee nods
Shep Titian: Old business .. any thing you want brought back?
Pip Torok: no …
Moonrise Azalee: not for me
Beathan Vale: no
Shep Titian: ok I take silence as a no
Shep Titian: oop
Pip Torok: no from me
Shep Titian: lol
Moonrise Azalee: I did say no.. .but I think im lagging
Shep Titian: learns patience
Shep Titian: ok new business
Shep Titian: the Citizens Notification Bill
Moonrise Azalee: I think it is fair.
Moonrise Azalee: Even if people can’t get into SL, they can journey over to the forum and read.
Pip Torok: does someone have the text for me to revise?
Shep Titian: I think we agreed last meeting .. that posting on the forum and a notice sent by group notificationwas sufficient notice
Moonrise Azalee: Though…. I don’t know if I feel 14 days is as fair as perhaps… 30
Pip Torok: ah yes .. that had my agreement
Moonrise Azalee: Kind of like if you rent.. you get 30 days notice. but i realize that might always be doable.
Beathan Vale: 30 is a bit long — we often need to move faster than that — on the other hand, 14 days is only 1 meeting — while 30 would emcompass 2
Shep Titian: What do we feel on the leeway time? .. should we make it 30 days?
Beathan Vale: Sure
Shep Titian: Pip?
Beathan Vale: move to amend 14 to 30
Moonrise Azalee: It allows someone more time if say, a change comes up that for some reason makes them no longer want to own land
Shep Titian: Second
Pip Torok: i’d feel 14 is more practical .. relaise that a term is 6 months long
Beathan Vale: I would also add an emergency clause, but I will get tot hat
Shep Titian: Yes Pip but some only come in once a onth
Moonrise Azalee: 14 more practical for the ones giving notice, but as a citizen, 30 is more fair.
Pip Torok: ok …..
Moonrise Azalee: k
Shep Titian: What did you want to add Beathan?
Beathan Vale: I would add “3. If the RA finds that a matter is urgent or an emergency, by 2/3 vote on motion, then this notice requirement would be waived for the purpose of emegency legislation.”
Pip Torok: (wd be happy with that)
Shep Titian: SC won’t like that
Shep Titian: who defines emergency?
Beathan Vale: yeah — but the RA can define the terms of the notice law, and then regulate itself by requiring a 2/3 vote rather than mere approval
Moonrise Azalee: what sorts of examples are there of an emergency?
Pip Torok raises hand
Shep Titian: Pip
Beathan Vale: “emergency” or “urgency” is whatever the RA finds it to be on motion — but the language is intended to guide the RA, but nor provide grounds for SC disapproval
Shep Titian: I think urgency is the word to choose
Pip Torok: i think we shd avoid the “emergency” trap and try for 30 days .. we can see how it works out in practice
Shep Titian: Beathan could I ask you to propse it .. as you are best at couching in the correct form?
Beathan Vale: I have moved to amend 14 to 30 — second?
Moonrise Azalee: I second
Shep Titian: second
Pip Torok: second
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Shep Titian: Razzy?
Moonrise Azalee: Is it possible to have a sticky topic in the Forums for Changes only? so that people can easily find it when checking in via mobile phone etc?
Moonrise Azalee: Announcements-Citizen Notices of Change or something?
Moonrise Azalee: Theres a lot of info and would be great for people to be able to quickly see any proposed changes.
Moonrise Azalee: Basically just a copy/paste of the notice sent in world
Shep Titian: Thats a good idea Razzy .. SC runs the forum we could always ask
Moonrise Azalee: Okay cool.
Beathan Vale: There is already a legislative discussion forum for citizens — woudn’t this be redundant?
Moonrise Azalee: Im trying to think of the average citizen
Moonrise Azalee: important changes should not be hard to find
Shep Titian: It might attract attention being new lol
Moonrise Azalee: they should be right up front and visible
Beathan Vale: OK — I wonder if that can be done through flagging or something
Shep Titian: Are we ready to vote .. if so I’ll propose
Moonrise Azalee: the forum has a huge wealth of info, and the average citizen might not know which category its in. A simple Citizen Notices of Change-Read Here , etc, or stickied into the forum would be simple.
Pip Torok: ready to vote
Moonrise Azalee: I am also
Beathan Vale: yes
Shep Titian: I always look art the date last post Razzy
Moonrise Azalee: You do
Moonrise Azalee: but not everyone is forum saavy
Shep Titian: yep
Moonrise Azalee: I run 4 forums
Pip Torok: !!
Moonrise Azalee: lol- things get lost in big discussions
Moonrise Azalee: so a one place stop, like a vitual Notice board for upcoming changes would be good
Moonrise Azalee: even myself, lookign at RA, or Leg, or Building info etc.. its all scaattered-
Moonrise Azalee: even myself, lookign at RA, or Leg, or Building info etc.. its all scaattered-
Moonrise Azalee: so, just a one stop section for all impedning notices of change…
Moonrise Azalee shuts up now
Moonrise Azalee: LOL
Pip Torok: may we see the motion we are about to vote on?
Shep Titian: I propose Agenda for RA meeting of Saturday 30th of June 2012 at 9a.m.
– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today?s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members? Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business .
Citizen Notification Bill
Preamble
Citizens have a right to expect some notification of changes that will affect them. Similarly, citizens also have a responsibility to check official channels and raise concer
Shep Titian: Ignore that
Shep Titian: I copied too much
Moonrise Azalee giggles
Shep Titian: 1. Posting information on the CDS forums and via in world notices will be considered to be sufficient notification to citizens of changes which affect them.
2. Citizens will be given at least 30 days notice of such changes.
Shep Titian: Damn it try again
Moonrise Azalee thought is worked
Shep Titian: I propose a Citizen Notification Bill .. being … 1. Posting information on the CDS forums and via in world notices will be considered to be sufficient notification to citizens of changes which affect them.
2. Citizens will be given at least 14 days notice of such changes.
Shep Titian: Shhhhhhhh
Beathan Vale: I move we amend 14 to 30
Moonrise Azalee laughs
Shep Titian: Second
Shep Titian: ok .. breathes deeply .Second for the bill?
Moonrise Azalee: second
Shep Titian: Thanks .. vote
Moonrise Azalee grins
Pip Torok: aye
Moonrise Azalee: Aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Shep Titian: Thank you Anna hjas a 7 day vote .. but the Bill carries
Moonrise Azalee: Groovy
Shep Titian: Sorry about my copy/pasting lol
Shep Titian: Ok no commission reports
Shep Titian: No exec to report .. I think he wanted a word .. nvm
Shep Titian: I have no announcements .. anyone else?
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Pip Torok: not from me
Shep Titian: Razzy
Moonrise Azalee: No real announcement, but just wanted to share that I want to work on a monthly citizens market to help promote our area. I have approached Treb about it and he liked the idea. right now its sort of a work in progress but it should be a lot of fun.
Moonrise Azalee: And a good way to display our lovely area and the talents of our Citizens
Shep Titian: Yes I’ve heard the bones of it Razzy and it sounds great
Pip Torok strongly agrees …
Moonrise Azalee: Poetry reading, a few tables set up with a limit of items for people to display/sell, talent if wanted, music etc…just a monthly fun thing.
Moonrise Azalee: If it happens at the same time each month, eventually word gets round
Moonrise Azalee: and having it in an area like beachside in LA or something, draws attraction to an area that needs some landowners
Moonrise Azalee: and having it in an area like beachside in LA or something, draws attraction to an area that needs some landowners
Moonrise Azalee: and having it in an area like beachside in LA or something, draws attraction to an area that needs some landowners
Shep Titian: I’m also going to look into marketing .. as we have to lose some yellow .. but nothing to report yet
Shep Titian: ok next meeting?
Moonrise Azalee: agreed, one of the reasons i want to get the market going.. get people to visit and see how beautiful it is
Shep Titian: two weeks ok?
Moonrise Azalee: can we do 9:30 for the next meeting?
Pip Torok: ok by me
Moonrise Azalee: 9am my household is just begging for breakfast
Shep Titian: I’m ok with it .. how about Pip and Beathan?
Beathan Vale: That’s fine
Pip Torok: 9.30 is fine .. tho i may turn up early!
Moonrise Azalee: LOL
Shep Titian: cool 9.30 it is 14th July
Shep Titian: lol
Moonrise Azalee: hooray!
Moonrise Azalee: hooray!
Shep Titian: Meeting Adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 14 July 2012

Re: 14 July 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:00 am
Apologies. I can’t get in to the right part of Gwyn’s website to colourise this transcript. Pat

Shep Titian: Hello folks
Callipygian Christensen: hi Shep
Shep Titian: Apologies I underestimated the time it took from our county show
Beathan Vale: I don’t think we could have an agenda — last time we passed a notice requirement that would have required notice be given before the last meeing for anything on this meeting — and we didn’t give the notice partly because it was not yet required at the time we would have had to give it
Fern Leissa: ??
Callipygian Christensen: umm..that law wasnt meant to apply to notices of agenda items I think
Beathan Vale: that is — we would have a standing agenda, but no new business
Trebor Warcliffe: WHAT??? what the hell does that have to do with an RA agenda
Shep Titian: Is it just Beathan and myself?
Beathan Vale: so far
Callipygian Christensen: that would slow things down even further in getting anything done?
Trebor Warcliffe: Fern, Rosie, Calli adn myself have been here since 9am
Beathan Vale: yes — but people thought that notice was important and don’t like to be surprised by RA actions — seems fair enough
Callipygian Christensen: I thought the intent was that when a law is *passed* or an admin thing is changed, that method of notifying is in place
Rosie Gray: plotting an overthrow of the gov’t
Rosie Gray: oh did I say that?
Fern Leissa: lol
Beathan Vale: No — it is notice of proposed changes to allow citizen inpute before a law is passed
Fern Leissa: shuuuuuh
Trebor Warcliffe nods in agreement with Rosie
Trebor Warcliffe: Which has nothing to do with an RA agenda
Callipygian Christensen: I dont see that in the wording Beathan..will have to look at it again
Beathan Vale: but it wasn’t supposed to apply to private notices — like rent arrearages — and it is ambiguous in that respect
Callipygian Christensen: but that means any agenda item now needs a 30 day pre posting?
Beathan Vale: We changed it to 14
Callipygian Christensen just shakes her head
Shep Titian: Gwyn asked about that
Trebor Warcliffe: The RA agenda doesnt apply to that
Callipygian Christensen: I thought it was changed from 14 to 30
Callipygian Christensen: LOL
Beathan Vale: and I proposed an emergency saving rule in special cases, but for the life of me I don’t remember if we passed that or not
Rosie Gray: that’s just silly
Shep Titian: It was 30
Beathan Vale: Trebor — the general agenda doesn’t, but any legislation on the agenda does
Callipygian Christensen: I suggested the notice issue be addressed and this is totally not what I thought was being passed
Callipygian Christensen laughs
Beathan Vale: Shep — I’m fairly sure we amended it to 14
Shep Titian: I thought we propsed 14 but it got amended to 30
Trebor Warcliffe: Well how about teh RA get thier stuff together so everyoen concerned knows exsactly what the hell is goign on.
Beathan Vale: I think the amendment went the other way — but I haven’t been able to get into the forums to prepare for this meeting
Callipygian Christensen: it was prposed at 14, amended to 30..but I still dont see it as applicable before a law is passed
Trebor Warcliffe: We’re so concerned about giving people “proper” notice and these people are no where to be found anyhow
Shep Titian: That would be fibe if they actualy came inworld
Shep Titian: *fine
Trebor Warcliffe: Hell we cant even get 5 RA members to show up ontime or at all
Beathan Vale: Trebor — no one is late yet — the time was changed to 10:00 — chill out man
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan no it wasnt
Trebor Warcliffe: Shep admitted that when she came in
Shep Titian: First time I’ve been l;ate Trebor
Trebor Warcliffe: I know Shep
Trebor Warcliffe: That was more of a general statement
Beathan Vale: At the last RA meeting we agreed on 10 — so all RA members understood 10 — I don’t want to say someone is late until they don’t show up at the time they understood they should
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan, I thinkthe point heeis that 3 of us were sitting here for 45 minuted wondering where everyone was
Trebor Warcliffe: Well I’d have to see the transcript because our LRA (who is doign a good job) thought it was 9
Callipygian Christensen: If there is a time change, no problem, but post it
Beathan Vale: I know — and I apologize — there seems to have been a communication problem and we need to do better
Shep Titian: If I made a mistake on the time I’m sorry .. I have 9am etched on my brain now lol
Beathan Vale: I was trying to post to confirm that — but I haven’t been able to get into the forums all week and couldn’t get inworld until today
Trebor Warcliffe: It’s been 9am for many terms Shep
Shep Titian: right
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes the forums have a server down
Trebor Warcliffe: Shold be fixed in a day or two from my understanding
Beathan Vale: good
Trebor Warcliffe: As far as inworld I havent heard anyoen having any issues getting inworld
Trebor Warcliffe: Just the typical lag and occasional crash
Callipygian Christensen: ok. since there is no quorum anyway, could we talk about this 30 day notice law?
Shep Titian: That might be why my head is still on my shoulders lol
Beathan Vale: because at times in the last two weeks — I spend all my waking time in my office — and while I can access the forums at downtimes I can’t log in through my work computer
Callipygian Christensen: when i suggested that this be addressed it had nothing to do with ‘citizens havig a month to consider legislation *before8 it hits RA’
Trebor Warcliffe: Does anyone have the correct proposal for thsi law in question?
Trebor Warcliffe: Exactly Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan do you have a copy of the proposal?
Shep Titian: I thought the 30 day notice was the time and method of letting the populace know of law changes that require them to change something
Trebor Warcliffe: I thought it was 14 days
Trebor Warcliffe: 30 days seems insanely to long
Trebor Warcliffe: And I thought it was for legislation that would affect the citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: not for anything else
Shep Titian: Whatever the timing it was DEFINATELY AFTER the law was passed
Shep Titian: Ye Trebor
Fern Leissa: Yes… this seems unnecessarily complicated and an impediment to participation
Beathan Vale: I thought I did but I’m not finding it — our entire debate centered on the concept that citizens be told of pending legislation so that they could participate in debate and aid RA deliberations – -not merely on being told about things before they go into effect — the second of those seems like a useless exercise to me and I would not support it, while i would support notice to citizens to encourage attendance and testimony at RA meeting BEFORE legislation is passed
Trebor Warcliffe: I didnt realize the law was passed
Trebor Warcliffe: I thought it was passed than rescinded
Beathan Vale: It was passed, recinded, and repassed
Fern Leissa: jeeez
Shep Titian: We had a meeting since then Trebor
Trebor Warcliffe: The last RA meeting?
Shep Titian: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: I was there
Shep Titian: You left at one point
Beathan Vale: or something like that — the original concept was not on the agenda, but on a motion from the floor — then Pat drafted some language and we considered and passed it on 7/1
Callipygian Christensen: I am pulling up the transcripts
Trebor Warcliffe: ty Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Because I dont remember anything about the first half od Beathans above comment. I understood it as being a notice when legislation was passed to give everyone a 14 day notice before the law woudl come into affect
Beathan Vale: By the way, Madame LRA — I have to leave at 11:00 — it’s my birthday and I am going to brunch with my mother — that was the only time we could meet
Fern Leissa: Happy Birthday Beathan
Callipygian Christensen: I dont see them on the portal..but I am sure Pat posted them there
Beathan Vale: Me, France, and ex-President Gerald Ford … I think 7/14 has a lot to answer for
Callipygian Christensen: nothing after the 15th RA right now
Beathan Vale: I am pretty sure I read it on the forums …
Trebor Warcliffe: Great so we have no transcript and we have no text of the law in question correct?
Shep Titian: Awwww Happy Birthday Beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: If thats the case than it is pointless to continue this discussion
Beathan Vale: but that was more than a week ago — and it’s beena crazy week — so I might be misremembering
Shep Titian: Can we ask how many bumps you need?
Beathan Vale: well — I think it’s a prime number
Shep Titian: Pat posted I saw it
Rosie Gray: lol
Trebor Warcliffe: As Chancellor I’d like to request the LRA to get with her fellow RA members to gather the proper information so this topic can be properly debated.
Shep Titian:
Callipygian Christensen: Pat posted the proposed legislation originally, yes
Trebor Warcliffe: Or do I need to make a 14day request for that?
Beathan Vale: there is no pending topic and the previous legislation was debated and passed. Gwyn has noted a problem with some ambiguity in it. The audience here today has noted a further and additional problem with ambiguity. I will propose an amendment to resolve those things based on what I understand the legislation to be.
Callipygian Christensen: and I am pretty sure he stuck to ‘notification of changes that affect them’ in the preamble – but I think that was dropped when you actually voted on it
Shep Titian: II saw a transcript for the last meeting because I went to check he had done it
Trebor Warcliffe: And what might that legislation be Beathan?
Beathan Vale: Pat’s proposal as modified by motion to amend considered and passed in the 7/1 session of the RA
Trebor Warcliffe: And can I have a copy of that please
Beathan Vale: it is in the transcript and on the forums, but I don’t have other access to it — and as you noted the forums are down
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I did try to access the forums once again
Trebor Warcliffe: And they are still down
Trebor Warcliffe: I will look on the forums after they are up
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
Shep Titian: It was definately about laws passed which affected citizens .. not BEFORE they are passed
Trebor Warcliffe: Until we read the actual legislation there is no sense in discussing it
Shep Titian: It came about after people not changing to single ownership
Trebor Warcliffe: Shep may I suggest the importance of all RA members to be in attendance or at least inform you if they arent going to be able to make it. It’s my understanding no one informed you of their absence today?
Trebor Warcliffe: I think it would be an excellent idea to reopen Rosie’s post about what the citizens of CDS envision for the CDS because I dont see much of anything myself.
Callipygian Christensen: I think that just may be a need to remind that running for and sitting on RA is a chosen obligation – anyone can post that as a thing to consider
Trebor Warcliffe: If you haven’t guessed already, yes I am in a rather foul mood today.
Shep Titian: Correct Trebor
Rosie Gray: ?
Shep Titian: Would never have guessed
Beathan Vale: and at this point even I will consider other members late
Callipygian Christensen: Shep isnt theirmother..they are adults..and perhaps just need a nudge about their duties
Shep Titian: Thanks Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Our state of affairs saddens me but what saddens me more is that there are things we can do to improve our state of affairs and the majority dont seem to want to be bothered or even concerned about it.
Rosie Gray: Trebor don’t despair
Beathan Vale: Trebor — that sounds a lot like politics irl
Trebor Warcliffe: It’s hard not to Rosie
Rosie Gray: it’s summer in the north and lots of people just have to spend time on rl because of it
Trebor Warcliffe: This is not a summer problem
Fern Leissa: Honestly Rosie… I don’t remember quite this degree of disengagment before
Trebor Warcliffe: And yes I understand there is uglyness across the Grid
Fern Leissa: And me too… I am guilty of not being around much
Shep Titian: They are’nt that far north that they’re hunting for winter food!!
Rosie Gray sighs
Trebor Warcliffe: You have estates shutting down that were financially supported by a few members
Fern Leissa: I guess the question is though as Trebor points out… how can we fix it
Trebor Warcliffe: We dont have that here
Trebor Warcliffe: We DONT rely on a few individuals financially
Trebor Warcliffe: This community was set up correctly
Trebor Warcliffe: In that the community pays for itself
Trebor Warcliffe: Even if we were to die off it would take a few years for it to happen
Trebor Warcliffe: Now is the time
Trebor Warcliffe: when a community like ours
Trebor Warcliffe: needs to get the word out
Trebor Warcliffe: we want peoples projects
Trebor Warcliffe: ideas
Trebor Warcliffe: we have many public use buildings that all someone has to do is own a small parcel in ouir commuinity and they can use htem
Fern Leissa: We need to be here too… green dots attract people… and most of us seem elsewhere or on the forum most of the time
Trebor Warcliffe: Our “government” our “democracy” is in place and it works fine
Trebor Warcliffe: now lets build the community
Trebor Warcliffe: lets be oen of the few who can prosper throgh the hard times
Trebor Warcliffe: Let the government run itself
Shep Titian: I have had a communication .. I won’t say from who .. about the ‘old guard’
Beathan Vale: Madame LRA — seeing no quorum in the RA, I move we adjourn with apologies to the citizens in attendance
Callipygian Christensen: well , in a radical ‘consider other points of view’ vein – perhaps the question to ask the populace is ‘is it time to convert to a ‘regular’ estate with e homeowners association in place of RA, and decide on a few good charities to receive the money
Rosie Gray: I agree that being here is pretty much the most important thing
Fern Leissa: We still have an old guard???
Beathan Vale: Well — not sure about the “guard” part
Callipygian Christensen: if nothing else, that will actually get them out of the woodwork and up in arms
Shep Titian: I agree Beathan sorry .. I second
Shep Titian: Vote aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Trebor Warcliffe: Hell I’ve only been here 2 years I hope im not in that category
Shep Titian: Adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 4 August 2012

Re: 4 August 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:27 pm
Shep Titian: ok folks meeting called to order and agenda in the box
Anna Toussaint: mmmm
Anna Toussaint: pepperoni ….
Shep Titian: Ok we all read the agenda and approve
Beathan Vale: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Shep Titian: Pip?
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: Cool
Rosie Gray: back
Shep Titian: Speakers on todays items .. open discussion on the Bill .. Razzy probably not now and Trebor you speaking?
Pip Torok: wb
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I can speak today thank you
Shep Titian: good
Shep Titian: Next .. do any citizens have any concerns we can help with?
Beathan Vale: I would like to add a covenant discussion to our next meeting based on forum postssion to the next meeting
Shep Titian: Ok …
Shep Titian: Any other RA concerns cropped up?
Pip Torok: not from me
Beathan Vale: no
Shep Titian: And Beathan if you could give me some details for the next agenda
Anna Toussaint: nope
Beathan Vale: I’m not sure — Tou and Gwyn have highlighted some issues
Shep Titian: Well lets sort one today .. the Notification bill
Shep Titian: this is what was passed ..
Shep Titian: Re: Citizenship Notification Bill
Postby Patroklus Murakami ? Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:35 am
This was passed at the RA meeting on 30 June 2012 in the following form:
CDSL 17-01 Citizen Notification Act
1. Posting information on the CDS forums and via in world notices will be considered to be sufficient notification to citizens of changes which affect them.
2. Citizens will be given at least 30 days notice of such changes.
Ayes: Beathan, Moonrise, Pip, Shep.
Anna has a 7-day vote.
Shep Titian: I thought it seemed clear .. but questions were raised as to the information that was alluded top
Shep Titian: to*
Shep Titian: Any thoughts?
Anna Toussaint: It looks clear to me
Trebor Warcliffe: Now that we have the actual text here for review I don’t have any thoughts.
Anna Toussaint: and I apologize for not being around much
Anna Toussaint: this new job is killin me
Shep Titian: Beathan .. you wanted it raised?
Beathan Vale: I think we should add two addtional clarifications as follows: 3. This Act shall not apply to notice of meetings provided that any action taken at the meeting is ineffective for thirty days under this Act to allow citizen comment and requests for revision and 4. This Act shall apply only to general, public actions, and not to private actions (such as covenant enforcement and foreclosure for not paying tier)
Pip Torok: wasnt there a draft preamble suggested in the Forum?
Shep Titian: I only got forum back this morning
Pip Torok: (wd accept those 2 extra sentences)
Shep Titian: I had to post this 24 hours before the meeting
Beathan Vale: I don’t thikn Gwyn proposed any specific preamble — only requested one — to address the issue in 4.
Anna Toussaint: they look ok to me, the two extra sentences
Beathan Vale: The issue in 3 clarifies an ambiguity about whether this applies to notice of the agenda of RA and SC meetings
Shep Titian: Gwyn seemed happy with my answer
Pip Torok: move to incorporate the 2 extra sentences…
Beathan Vale: second
Shep Titian: Ok .. vote please
Beathan Vale: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Shep Titian: Razzy has 7 days but it it passed
Shep Titian: Ok short and sweet
Anna Toussaint: were we voting on the amendments or the resolution?
Pip Torok: the amendment
Beathan Vale: that should have been on the amendment — let’s vot again for the act
Shep Titian: Yes amendment
Anna Toussaint:
Beathan Vale: I move passage of the act
Pip Torok: move to vote on the substantial bill
Beathan Vale: second
Shep Titian: Ok .. second
Anna Toussaint: aye
Beathan Vale: lol
Shep Titian: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Beathan Vale: aye — we are eager much
Shep Titian: Good lets hope that is enough
Pip Torok: the speed-advantage of 4-wheeled RA’s ….
Shep Titian: New business seems empty
Shep Titian: No commissions to report
Shep Titian: Executive .. Trebor you have the floor
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
Trebor Warcliffe: The past two Fridays we have held 7Seas Fishing contests with 25+ people in attendance.
Trebor Warcliffe: These will continue to be held every Friday night at 9pm SLT. So far only 3 citizens have been in attendance so it would be nice to see more of our fellow citizens at least make an appearance.
Trebor Warcliffe: Next weekend and the weekend after, 11th. 12th. 18th. 19th.
Trebor Warcliffe: We will have a concert on each of those days.
Trebor Warcliffe: These are tribute band concerts
Trebor Warcliffe: The line up is Crosby Stills Nash & Young, the Rolling Stones, Queen, and Iron Maiden
Trebor Warcliffe: These will be held in Locus Amoenus by the bay area.
Trebor Warcliffe: I made a small presentation at the last Artisin Guild meeting.
Trebor Warcliffe: I am working on bringing in affiliate businesses owned by the CDS government to help increase traffic. The parcels will remain for sale and will have a small sign with something like “Your business could be here”
Trebor Warcliffe: Also I’d love to have someone write some human interest articles about the CDS to be submitted to the popular inworld publications.
Pip Torok raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Pip
Trebor Warcliffe: Pip?
Pip Torok: w/eregard to plots for sale .. cd the TIER be made plain as well as the price … the other day i had to guess an answer to a newbie
Trebor Warcliffe: The link is right on the portal Pip.
Beathan Vale: can’t that just be checked at the tier box onsite?
Trebor Warcliffe: And we also have a very up to date page on available land for sale maintained by Tan
Pip Torok: exactly beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: I believe if you click on the Hippo “For Sale” sign it tells the tier.
Pip Torok: i had thought on the about land number 1 (General)
Trebor Warcliffe: But I could be wrong, its ben a while since I clicked one.
Shep Titian: Ah bcheck both Pip
Shep Titian: Tier is on hippo
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I thought so
Pip Torok: a new buyer wd find it confusing to have price and tier in separate locations…
Rosie Gray raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: Pip many communities have the same set up as we do. You make hte purchase through the About Land tab and you pay tier through Hippo or other rental system.
Shep Titian: Rosie?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Rosie
Rosie Gray: well I think there are ample ways for people to see the tier, but it could be written on the about land tab
Rosie Gray: the tier I mean
Rosie Gray: only it means another job for those managing it
Anna Toussaint: I agree with Rosie
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes it could but unfortunatly the only one who can do that is the owner which is Rudeen
Shep Titian: Thats a big ask
Rosie Gray nods
Trebor Warcliffe: Rudeen was kind enough to place new descriptions into all land for sale so our parcels show up better on the search page for LL.
Pip Torok: perhaps its dealt with in the handbook for the Welcome committee ..?
Pip Torok: (BEST dealt with etc …)
Rosie Gray raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: Pip wouldnt that be even further distanced than the way it is now? The link to the MPL will be in the book.
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Rosie
Shep Titian: Go ahead Rosie
Rosie Gray: sorry I just think there is enough information,
Trebor Warcliffe: thank you
Rosie Gray: and we can’t cover every single eventuality
Pip Torok: ok … accept the majority thoughts …
Trebor Warcliffe: not with the amount of active volunteers we have
Anna Toussaint: well, tier is a pretty big deal …
Trebor Warcliffe: and it is easily found
Beathan Vale: well — I think we need to make sure that tier informationi s readily and easily available — for citizens and potential citizens alike
Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane wrote very good NC’s explaining everythign for the purchase of land
Trebor Warcliffe: That are given out as soon as someone touches the Hippo sign
Anna Toussaint: where would a newbie find the link to the tier page?
Trebor Warcliffe: I believe there in the NC that is given out
Pip Torok: I HAD thought right beside the price in About Land … but accept yr comments
Trebor Warcliffe: Pip new owners end up deleting that info and thats why its not in everyone of them
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d love for that to be “locked” but it isnt
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I will continue with my Executive Report
Shep Titian: ok
Trebor Warcliffe: As mentioned earlier Shep and myself wrote up descriptions for the parcels available for sale to make our parcels appear more often in searches on the SL website.
Trebor Warcliffe: Next time you’re out walking you can check a parcel in each sim and read the descriptions.
Rosie Gray: oh good1
Trebor Warcliffe: Also I need some volunteers to be greeters for the 4 concerts. All concerts are 2pm SLT.
Trebor Warcliffe: I’ve been working on Oktoberfest issues
Trebor Warcliffe: Oktoberfest will be Friday September 21 through Sunday September 30.
Trebor Warcliffe: Would love for some of our citizens to come up with some ideas and contribute.
Shep Titian: Cool
Trebor Warcliffe: I’ve been searching for German entertainment and havent had to much luck.
Beathan Vale: kind of like German humor
Rosie Gray: lol
Rosie Gray: now Beathan!
Shep Titian: LMAO well said Beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: I think I’m done for now with my Executive Report. I’ll be happy to answer any questions concernign anything I’ve brought up.
Pip Torok: perhaps a CDS citizen has visted the RL Oktoberfest and bring back ideas?
Shep Titian: Does a quick scan for Lilith
Rosie Gray: much bier and rowdyness
Trebor Warcliffe: Nothing?
Trebor Warcliffe: So no one has no issues with the CDS bringing a bunch of businesses into the CDS?
Trebor Warcliffe: Good
Rosie Gray raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Rosie
Shep Titian: Think I;m clear Treb .. just how many affiliates are we getting?
Rosie Gray: I think that the affiliates are a good idea Treb, if that’s what you’re referring to
Shep Titian: Rosie?
Rosie Gray: not sure you need the little signs though
Trebor Warcliffe: This past week I havent been able to do my research like I wanted to
Rosie Gray: I would just put them around in some of the stores, and leave the odd one empty
Rosie Gray: that way we don’t look pathetic
Trebor Warcliffe: The original list I sent to people, most of those are no longer in business
Shep Titian: Ok
Trebor Warcliffe: so I did a new search sorted by newest first
Trebor Warcliffe: and have come up with some nice affilaites that would work
Trebor Warcliffe: I hope to have some in place within a week or so
Trebor Warcliffe: At least 2 or 3 to start
Shep Titian: Excellent
Rosie Gray: I’ve got one now in one of my stores
Rosie Gray: easy solution if you don’t have something yourself to sell
Trebor Warcliffe: Alli & Ali is one Im looking at
Trebor Warcliffe: Along with having them in the CDS we will have to market/advertise them to get traffic in here.
Soro Dagostino: RL calls, CYA
Shep Titian: They are good Treb
Trebor Warcliffe: Its not a case of open a business and they will magically appear
Trebor Warcliffe: It needs to be worked
Rosie Gray: well you’ll need to adv. them in the classifieds, same as any business
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
Trebor Warcliffe: And Im trying to deal with the well established businesses so customer service wont be an issue
Rosie Gray: hi Calli
Shep Titian: Hi Calli
Pip Torok: hello Calli
Anna Toussaint: hi, Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: I’m done Shep
Callipygian Christensen: Hi all
Shep Titian: Ok thank you Trebor .. and thanks for doing all the work
Trebor Warcliffe: TY I more than welcome any help from anyone. Just reach out.
Shep Titian: Well I have no announcements
Rosie Gray reaches out and gives Trebor a POKE!
Shep Titian: So if we can make te next meeting
Shep Titian: lol
Shep Titian: ok so two weeks at the same time ok?
Pip Torok: ok for me!
Shep Titian: 18th August?
Shep Titian: 9,30 am
Beathan Vale: ok
Shep Titian: cool
Shep Titian: Anna?
Anna Toussaint: good for me
Shep Titian: ok then I propose we adjourn
Pip Torok: seconded
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: thanks guys

Permalink.

RA Meeting 18 August 2012

Re: 18 August 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:45 pm
Shep Titian: Calling the meeting to order
Shep Titian: Firstly do we all have the agenda and approve it?
Beathan Vale: move to approve
Pip Torok: second
Shep Titian: second
Shep Titian: lol vote aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: Speakers .. I am asking in advance for people to be patient
Shep Titian: I know things might get heated
Shep Titian: Trebor will you want to speak about Oktoberfest at all?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes please
Shep Titian: good
Shep Titian: ok any citizens concers other than that on the agenda?
Tanoujin Milestone keeps her mouth shut
Pip Torok:
Shep Titian: Silence .. ok RA concerns?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: sorry, if I missed the ‘wanting to speak on topics ‘ list -I will want to
Ranma Tardis: me too
Lilith Ivory: I might want also
Shep Titian: Ok on which subject?
Ranma Tardis: ending the experiment
Shep Titian: This is more speaking on projects such as Oktoberfest
Beathan Vale: I have a hunch that we will need to let a lot of people speak on that one
Shep Titian: The main feast will give everyone a chance
Callipygian Christensen: I will want to speak to that and probably to Chncellor’s report
Pip Torok: a running forum debate, perhaps?
Shep Titian: We can make a good start Pip
Pip Torok: indeed
Shep Titian: I have a concern
Trebor Warcliffe: Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Shep Titian: that my fellow RA members .. those present excluded .. don’t turn up
Shep Titian: Ok old business .. anything lurking I missed?
Shep Titian: ok .. now if you will allow me .. as I underestimated the turn out .. lets swop order .. Treb would you like the floor on Oktoberfest?
Trebor Warcliffe: Id like hte floor on the Executive Report
Trebor Warcliffe: which includes Oktoberfest
Shep Titian: Ok slapped wrist
Trebor Warcliffe: The view isnt bad from here lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I’m glad everyone here could make it today.
Trebor Warcliffe: First order of business from me.
Trebor Warcliffe: I had to make an Executive decision the other day and eject and ban a citizen from our community.
Trebor Warcliffe: Turtlette666
Trebor Warcliffe: purchased a parcel in NFS outside city walls
Lilith Ivory: (Tartlette666)
Trebor Warcliffe: complaints were brought to my attention that she was walking through NFS as a Penis Avatar
Trebor Warcliffe: TY Lil
Lilith Ivory: yw
Trebor Warcliffe: She also had numerous penises erected on her property.
Trebor Warcliffe: I sent her a NC, which I will give all of you now.
Beathan Vale: ::sigh:: the return of penis griefing
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan, this was more ‘penis as a decor accent’ I think *grin*
Shep Titian: I wish I’d seen it
Trebor Warcliffe: I retunred all the penises and more appeared the next day
Lilith Ivory: I?ve to say buying land to grief a community has some style
Trebor Warcliffe: After another 24 hours with no response from her nad still more penises being erected I took executive action and ejected her and banned her
Trebor Warcliffe: Next topic
Trebor Warcliffe: Oktoberfest
Trebor Warcliffe: This year Oktoberfest will be from the 22nd to the 30th of September.
Trebor Warcliffe: I made an announcement in the CDS forums and sadly I havent gotten any feedback in the forums. I have been speaking/working with Lilith and Tor about some events we’re working on but the overall input from citizens is almost nonexistent.
Trebor Warcliffe: So far we have planned an opening horse parade
Shep Titian: oooh
Trebor Warcliffe: A concert on 22nd (Trans Siberian Orchestra), a 2hour folk music DJ on Tuesday the 25th
Trebor Warcliffe: Another concert (Ramstein) on the 29th.
Shep Titian:
Trebor Warcliffe: And we’re trying to set up a Ball on the closing day to celebrate both Oktoberfest and the CDS 8th birthday party.
Trebor Warcliffe: I cant stress the importance of having as many of our citizens as active as possibler in the planning and execution of this event.
Trebor Warcliffe: I would think that our government officials would be the first to raise their hand and contribute in whatever way they can.
Trebor Warcliffe: Im done for now thank you.
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Shep Titian: And thank you Treb
Trebor Warcliffe: ty
Callipygian Christensen: Trebor has notified me, as Dea of the SC, of the banning and I have a notice to the SC about it in progress.
Callipygian Christensen: done
Shep Titian: You feel there might be a problem with the banning Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: Not at all – I know I among others suggested it..
Shep Titian: Good
Callipygian Christensen: but there is reference to banning in the laws so the SC is required to address it at least
Shep Titian: okay .. If Razzy was here I would ask her to report next
Shep Titian: So moving on
Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi
Pip Torok: hi Sudane!
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi hi
Shep Titian: A citizen put it to me that they felt CDS was more or less finished , that nothing of note was being done and in their opinion it should be dissolved and out reserves given to charity .. comments from RA first please
Shep Titian: Hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hey
Pip Torok raises hand …
Shep Titian: Pip
Callipygian Christensen: I would like to speak first to the shut down the experiment item, since I believe I also mentioned this in a pror RA transcript
Shep Titian: Noted Calli
Pip Torok: well there are times in every sim when things get slack … thats no reason in itself to wind things up …
Pip Torok: is there an iimmediate financial problem? .. I shd say no …
Pip Torok: is democracy important in SL and RL rthese days ….
Pip Torok: Id say overwhelminglyn yes …
Pip Torok: done
Shep Titian: Thank you Pip
Shep Titian: Beathan you wish to comment?
Beathan Vale: Yes
Beathan Vale: As I mentioned before the meeting — I don’t think the Constitution allows this step so even if the RA so voted, the SC would have grounds to invalidate on Constitutional grounds (although I don’t want to speak to or predict the action of the SC)
Beathan Vale: Further,
Beathan Vale: as I mentioned before the meeting — the CDS is not just an experiment in democracy, although we are that — we are also a community and a set of institutions that have been created during our time in existence. These may continue to exist even if we end democracy – although I am not sure that any of them will continue if we cease as a community
Beathan Vale: So — the question is — are we still a community — I think we are. As a community we have high points and low points — strong community v periods of weakness, disengagement, etc. We might be in a weak period — but we are still here — today’s turnout shows that.
Beathan Vale: There is a third issue
Beathan Vale: SL itself seems to be in strong decline. It is an old platform and is becoming increasingly antiquated and losing interest and membership
Beathan Vale: So — even if we want to continue — we may find that we can’t really continue in SL
Beathan Vale: In such case, I would recommend looking for another platform, and I would support an exploratory committee to keep and eye out for such a thing.
Beathan Vale: I don’t think that there is a content sandbox, rl MMO that is as good as SL.
Trebor Warcliffe raises hand and would like to speak after Calli
Shep Titian: Noted Treb
Beathan Vale: However, there is an upcoming traditional low fantasy game we might consider — Embers of Caerus — released in 2016 — which is not a content sandbox, but is a social and (more importantly) a governemental sandbox, allowing communities in the game to develop self-governing communities and set laws. If we want to focus on the social sandbox we have here in an updated environment, that might be an option — although the game aspects would probably turn off many of our citizens. Still, we should keep a weather eye out on this issue.
Beathan Vale: Done
Shep Titian: Thank you Bearthan
Shep Titian: open to floor .. Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: Thank you. I cannot speak to the concerns of the person who spoke privately with Shep but personally when I raised this topc there were a number of reasons. We were at an inquorate RA meeting, and discussion covered that, along with the level of disengagement of the citizenry..an ongoing discussion for 2 terms now as Trebor has struggled to find volunteers etc.
Callipygian Christensen: I quote myself here, from the RA transcript on the Forum of August 4th:
Callipygian Christensen: Callipygian Christensen: well , in a radical ‘consider other points of view’ vein – perhaps the question to ask the populace is ‘is it time to convert to a ‘regular’ estate with e homeowners association in place of RA, and decide on a few good charities to receive the money
Rosie Gray: I agree that being here is pretty much the most important thing
Fern Leissa: We still have an old guard???
Beathan Vale: Well — not sure about the “guard” part
Callipygian Christensen: if nothing else, that will actually get them out of the woodwork and up in arms

Callipygian Christensen: (there was a smiley after the up in arms comment
Shep Titian: My thoughts exactly and it was’nt based on you Calli .. I would have told you
Pip Torok raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: So, my positing that view was much as Shep has done in putting it on the agenda – what DO the citizens see as the future
Shep Titian: Pip after Treb
Trebor Warcliffe: I will pass to Pip for the moment.
Callipygian Christensen nods to Shep..just framing that it isn’t such a radical thing really..just a motivator to get people *involved* in the discussion
Shep Titian: Hi Tor
Callipygian Christensen: done
Pip Torok: two points to stress:
Tor Karlsvalt: hi
Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor
Shep Titian: Pip
Pip Torok: one .. we live in extraordinary conomic times so the usual rules may not apply ..
Pip Torok: two .. IMO we should stress that we are NOT RP’ers anything but …
Pip Torok: done
Shep Titian: Thx Pip
Shep Titian: Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: Would anyone else like to speak before I do?
Trebor Warcliffe: Ranma?
Ranma Tardis: ty
Ranma Tardis: was not prepared to speak on this subject
Trebor Warcliffe: Fair enough
Shep Titian: I believe Tan wanted a word?
Tanoujin Milestone: thanks, no
Ranma Tardis: was at the beginning of the CDS and it was a fine start from diaster
Shep Titian: ok
Trebor Warcliffe: When Ranma is done I will speak
Ranma Tardis: came back to support the effort of a democratic government in sl
Ranma Tardis: ah while things are slow now there is still a community, do feel that the rules have become so complex it has weakened the community
Ranma Tardis: had to shift my Peace Inisitude over to Caledon, though like here am supporting in this case my friend
Ranma Tardis: will support the majority and wonder how this not know person wants our community to commit spepuku?
Ranma Tardis: lets hang toughter as a community, thank you
Shep Titian: ThaxRanma
Pip Torok: (agrees strongly)
Shep Titian: Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes thank you.
Trebor Warcliffe: First off the person who made these comments wasn’t me LOL.
Trebor Warcliffe: I dont know who it was but I believe hte comments were made out of frustration.
Trebor Warcliffe: It seems we have a lot of “talkers” but when it comes to getting things done there are few people available.
Trebor Warcliffe: SL is on a downside but I dont see them shutting down anytime soon. Studies have shown they will probably close the year down roughly 10% in population from the beginning of the year.
Trebor Warcliffe: I dont think I have anything else to say. The CDS will not grow and prosper off hte hard work of just a few individuals. We can get a lot more done with 50 active people instead of 5 active people. The choice is up to each and everyone who reads this post.
Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
Shep Titian: Thank you Trebor
Tor Karlsvalt: Raises hand
Tanoujin Milestone: Hello Spider
Pip Torok: hi!!
Tor Karlsvalt Raises hand
Shep Titian: I included this today .. expecting ven hoping to see a wave of outrage
Shep Titian: Tor
Spider22997 Upshaw: hello
Lilith Ivory: Hi Spider
Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you
Tor Karlsvalt: I just want to point out that LL has just announced that they will make SL available via Steam
Tor Karlsvalt: This is an online gaming distriubutor.
Pip Torok: Steam?
Shep Titian: Oh joy
Pip Torok reacts with caution …
Tor Karlsvalt: This might not occur for months, but we might see an upswing in ppl finding SL once it is seen on Steam
Trebor Warcliffe: Queen will be in concert todaty at 2pm SLT in LA and tomorrow Iron Maiden will be playing at 2pm at LA.
Pip Torok: oh joy!
Tor Karlsvalt: There might be a downside, but at least LL seems to making an effort to advertising SL better.
Shep Titian: Shush Pip .. lol
Trebor Warcliffe raises hand
Tor Karlsvalt: and I am against liquidation. Done
Shep Titian: Treb
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Shep Titian: Noted Sudane
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes thank you. I understand that Calli and Rosie will not be inworld during Oktoberfest but since I have some people here I need to know who will be available to help out with some of our events during the fest?
Trebor Warcliffe: Don’t trip over yourselves.
Ranma Tardis: laughs what needs to be done?
Pip Torok: i will, trebor … tho my eyes suffer from the RL dry-heat
Trebor Warcliffe: Honestly besides contributing to the planning and execution of the events the big thing we need is our citizens in attendance at these events to greet people and make the visitors feel welcomed.
Callipygian Christensen: (I will drink beer on the Left Bank in hounour of Octoberfest though!)
Shep Titian: Peeps
Trebor Warcliffe: Currently myself, Tor and Lil have been working on some ideas
Shep Titian: Sudane?
Trebor Warcliffe: And we’re wide open to other’s suggestions.
Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
Sudane Erato: i’d just like to say thtat Beathan’s comments hit the spot for me
Shep Titian: Sudane you have the floor
Sudane Erato: his first comment was legal techie
Sudane Erato: so
Sudane Erato: that to me was not so significant
Sudane Erato: but comments 2 and 3, about the pahses of community
Sudane Erato: and about the future of SL
Sudane Erato: very well express to me what I feel our future is
Sudane Erato: CDS has gone thru huge cycles
Sudane Erato: and we are now in a quiet one
Sudane Erato: and I say… thank god for that
Tor Karlsvalt: hear! Hear
Sudane Erato: because now is the time that “nation-building” could really happen
Sudane Erato: i think it will… despite the obvious problems, and the eternal problems, we always have finding volunteerds
Trebor Warcliffe listens very intently
Sudane Erato: done
Shep Titian: Me rtoo
Pip Torok: hear hear
Trebor Warcliffe: Can you expand please Sudane
Sudane Erato: expand?… on…?
Shep Titian: Nation building
Sudane Erato: oh…
Pip Torok wonders whether a c onsidered statement within the Forum isnt a better vehicle …
Sudane Erato: if we persist in some of the ‘peaceful” efforts, such as what Trebor is doing… and i totally support his brow-beating… its essential
Sudane Erato: if we persist, now in times of relative peace… i think that the community can mature..
Sudane Erato: fundamental… i do not think that just because things are quiet, the community is stagnant
Sudane Erato: there has always been a difficulty getting projects going
Sudane Erato: now is no different
Sudane Erato: done again
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep Titian: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: With respect to Sudane , Beathan..everyone who speaks of bulding..
Callipygian Christensen: it doenst address that there is no ‘wave of outrage’ because 80 %of the poulace dont read the RA agenda..transcripts..
Lilith Ivory: wb Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: ty
Callipygian Christensen: or maybe even know or *care8 that RA meetings ahppen.
Sudane Erato: sounds like about the RL percentage too
Shep Titian: sorry on phone
Beathan Vale: CC — the outrage will come if we do it — and more so because people will be surprised having not read the transcripts
Tor Karlsvalt: true
Callipygian Christensen: If we – the global we- are to build, it can’t happen easily if 8 out of ten citizens are totally apathetic
Callipygian Christensen: I dont have an answer to how to get them angaged..andi applaud and feel for Trebor..he’s knocked himself senseless trying
Sudane Erato: i agree… Trebor is to be hugely commended
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Callipygian Christensen: but in honesty.and I include myself..if all we do is sit and *talk* about how its all possible, and dont DO anything..then it isnt possible
Trebor Warcliffe: exactly Calli
Callipygian Christensen: (and yes, I am often the devil’s advocate in every group I belong to )
Pip Torok wonders what chance do people in general within SL have to express any sort of democracy or free-speech themselves…
Shep Titian: ack
Shep Titian: phone again
Spider22997 Upshaw: best thing to do is to organize a committee for each item of business you wish to accomplish, but i am new and maybe you already do that?
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep Titian: Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Across the spectrum of SL, there is a lot of talking going on.
Soro Dagostino: It is as to personal wants and desires, obtaining pleasure, making homes.
Soro Dagostino: Very few speak in hte public spectrum.
Soro Dagostino: it is not easy to learn and maintain.
Soro Dagostino: I think we should teach public speaking and help folk become part of governments.
Soro Dagostino: Done.
Shep Titian: Thank you
Pip Torok: (food for thought … ty Soro)
Callipygian Christensenraises hand..could we acknowledge Spider’s suggestion and address it a moment?
Shep Titian: Well that seems to be done with .. business as usual lol
Shep Titian: Sorry I must have missed that when on the phone
Shep Titian: Go ahead
Shep Titian: I see it
Callipygian Christensen: SPider, totally a good suggestion and the ‘usual’ way to do things, but the underlying issue is lack of involvement by a large number of citizens, for committees or anything else. That said, (and welcome!) if you want to get involved Trebor would love a volunteer
Spider22997 Upshaw: raises hand
Shep Titian: Spider?
Spider22997 Upshaw: yes,
Shep Titian: Go ahead
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan can I post our chat in public finveterate asshole
Spider22997 Upshaw: first i am sorry for speaking out of turn, but i have worked in property manaemeny in RL and may be of help here
Shep Titian: TREB!
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan can I post our chat in public? Maybe you’ll have others who also feel I am an inveterate asshole
Spider22997 Upshaw: but having a committee is a good way to get things done
Spider22997 Upshaw: they gather the information and present to the board for approval or not
Trebor Warcliffe: ???
Shep Titian: We do have those Spider from time to time .. but as Calli says its hard getting folk to volunteer
Trebor Warcliffe: Cat got your tounge?
Shep Titian: Treb please don’t fight
Trebor Warcliffe: Maybe I’ll just post my side of the conversation. That isnt in violation of anything is it Shep?
Spider22997 Upshaw: and does someone have a list of what the board would like information on
Shep Titian: No Treb
Ranma Tardis: raises hand
Shep Titian: Your words are your own
Shep Titian: Ran?
Pip Torok: Spider, Trebor or Lilith wd be the best guide for that .. or tanoujin
Tanoujin Milestone: We have procedures, Spider. I am looking forward to see you involved
Ranma Tardis: we need to be a community of friends first and last
Callipygian Christensen: Spider – if you take a look at the Forums the postings give you a general idea of what’s on the table for CDS in general
Spider22997 Upshaw: thank you, i also used to rent/sell land here in SL and may be able to help you with how you sell your land here
Ranma Tardis: our fighting each other is a big turn off
Ranma Tardis: coughs
Last edited by Patroklus Murakami on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
Forum Wizard? Oh yeah!

Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard

Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm
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Top
Re: 18 August 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:46 pm
Callipygian Christensen: Trebor is the Chancellor and tasked with a lot of the ‘make it happen’..so a combination of some reading and a chat with him might answer that
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes it cetainly is Ranma.
Shep Titian: Now that Spider is VERY interesting
Ranma Tardis: the thing is what sort of community do we want?
Shep Titian: Meet our new Realator
Ranma Tardis: am available on weekends but rl for me is busy
Tanoujin Milestone: Indeed. I say: welcome to know how and engagement
Trebor Warcliffe: A community where people actually participate and not sit on the sidelines and blow a bunch of hot air.
Ranma Tardis: other than democracy what do our residents want and expect?
Tanoujin Milestone shuts up again to give order a chance
Tor Karlsvalt:
Pip Torok: (British-based citizens please note .. Realator = Estate Agent …)
Ranma Tardis: you have my suppot Trebor
Ranma Tardis: sighs
Sudane Erato: thx Pip
Shep Titian: Sorry Tan
Tanoujin Milestone: all ok
Shep Titian: Folks Tan has the floor
Tanoujin Milestone: i was done, lol
Shep Titian: ok then lol
Shep Titian: Well Exec report was incorporated into Oktoberfest
Shep Titian: And I have no announcements
Shep Titian: Next RA meeting .. Beathan Pip .. 2 weeks .. same time?
Pip Torok: ok for me …
Shep Titian: cool
Callipygian Christensen: Shep
Callipygian Christensen: taht is the labour Day weekend in the US
Shep Titian: Ah ok
Callipygian Christensen: last holdiday of the summer..you might want to go to the following week if you want citizen and US RA member attendance
Shep Titian: Threec weeks then .. nothing urgent on
Pip Torok: again ok by me
Sudane Erato: oops… sorry, must leave. bye all
Pip Torok: bye Sudane!
Shep Titian: Byeee
Tanoujin Milestone: bye, Sudane
Tor Karlsvalt: bye Sudane
Ranma Tardis: waves
Soro Dagostino: goodbye Sudane
Shep Titian: Ok threeweeks September 8th at 9.30
Shep Titian: ok Pip?
Pip Torok: yup!
Shep Titian: ok Beathan?
Shep Titian: Flicks a paperclip at Beathan
Beathan Vale: SORRY — distracted
Beathan Vale: yep
Shep Titian: Cool .. the move to adjopurn
Shep Titian: Move to adjourn
Pip Torok: seconded
Shep Titian: #vote aye
Pip Torok: aye
Shep Titian: ok taking Beathan as given
Pip Torok: poke him again, mme LRA …
Shep Titian: Adjopurned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 15 September 2012

Re: 15 Sept 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:45 am
Shep Titian: Ok lets get started
Shep Titian: Calling the nmeeting to order
Shep Titian: Do we all have and approve the agenda?
Moonrise Azalee: Yes
Anna Toussaint: yes
Spider22997 Upshaw: yes
Pip Torok: i have and if all have it i propose we accept it
Shep Titian: Yes will do .. thanks
Shep Titian: Hi Treb
Pip Torok: (anyone to secone me?)
Moonrise Azalee: Aye
Trebor Warcliffe: Hello all
Pip Torok: second
Anna Toussaint: second
Shep Titian: Aye
Pip Torok: aye … (forestalling slightly)
Anna Toussaint: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Shep Titian: Speakers .. Trebor will you be making a starement?
Shep Titian: Statement even
Trebor Warcliffe: I can make a quick statement, give everyone an update on our activities.
Shep Titian: Good .. Razzy any updates or calls for help you can talk about?
Moonrise Azalee: Well, I posted in the forum about the Citizen’s Market, but felt that perhaps that should wait until Oktoberfest passes
Shep Titian: Ok …
Moonrise Azalee: As that is sort of the big item right now
Shep Titian: Yes so Treb only you today
Shep Titian: Citizens concers .. any??
Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
Shep Titian: Trebor?
Trebor Warcliffe: How come I dont see anything on the agenda in reference to the Order of Anzere?
Sudane Erato: what is that?
Trebor Warcliffe: The honor we bestowed upon Moon Adamant last year.
Trebor Warcliffe: We’re suppose to nominate someone to receive hte honor this year.
Trebor Warcliffe: It is held during Oktoberfest.
Trebor Warcliffe: And hello Sudane, I didnt see you over there. Good to see you
Shep Titian: I thought it shopuld be discussed in private to tell you thr truth
Trebor Warcliffe: And has it been?
Trebor Warcliffe: That was one of the main reasons we scheduled this meeting today.
Shep Titian: Not yet as I have’nt seen anyone online when I have been until now!
Trebor Warcliffe: I was under the assumption you were going to be talking with your fellow RA members during the week.
Shep Titian: I thought the end of this meeting might be an appropriate time
Shep Titian: I have’nt seen any of them
Trebor Warcliffe: I was hoping we’d have something agreed upon by the start of this meeting but I can agree that the end of the meeting will be ok.
Shep Titian: So how do you suggest I do that?
Moonrise Azalee: I’m never on til at least 9pm slt
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Trebor Warcliffe: email
Moonrise Azalee: doesnt coincide well with uk time
Trebor Warcliffe: forum posting
Trebor Warcliffe: private IM
Tor Karlsvalt has indicated consent to be recorded.
Shep Titian: Forum posting .. it is meant to be private!
Trebor Warcliffe: some of us get an email alert when a private IM is sent to us
Moonrise Azalee: I think we have each others email addys
Trebor Warcliffe: Forum posting to let all know you need to meet with them
Shep Titian: Its an award NOT a goverment thing
Trebor Warcliffe: You dont have to discuss the details
Trebor Warcliffe: Who makes the final decision Shep?
Trebor Warcliffe: The RA
Trebor Warcliffe: Whether its a government “thing” or not it is handled by the RA
Trebor Warcliffe: And we adjourned hte meeting last week stressing the importance of gettign this taken care of.
Shep Titian: Yes exactly
Anna Toussaint: Yup, so perhaps you should back off and quit complaining?
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand about a bit
Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
Shep Titian: You’re flying so close to losing one of your biggest supporters right now
Shep Titian: How DARE you berrate me in public!!!
Trebor Warcliffe: I believe Calli had her hand raised.
Anna Toussaint: Treborm, that is the chairs call to make
Anna Toussaint: not yours
Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Tor, glad you could make it
Trebor Warcliffe: I was just bringing it to the chairs attention Anna, no harm meant thank you. Im glad to see you could make it today, thank you.
Anna Toussaint: I am offended for Shep at your tone
Shep Titian: Anna could you take over .. I’m needed elsewhere
Anna Toussaint: k
Shep Titian: I vote aye on the addition
Anna Toussaint: It will be a short meeting … cause I have to go
Anna Toussaint: so, that was fun
Moonrise Azalee smiles
Anna Toussaint: any other speakers on today’s agenda items?
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: I wish to speak to the Order of Anzere discussion now or when appropriate
Anna Toussaint: go ahead
Callipygian Christensen: Moving away form everyone’s righteous indignation and back to the actual issue – the act creating the Order is vague
Callipygian Christensen: there is no directio in how people are nominted..
Callipygian Christensen: only that RA decides
Anna Toussaint: ah
Anna Toussaint: well, have there been any nominations?
Callipygian Christensen: I agree tht it is a discussion that should be priavte and involve all RA members
Moonrise Azalee: This is the first ive heard of it – ive been away
Pip Torok: not as such Anna .. probably private deliberations …
Callipygian Christensen: but I think RA should consider outlining an actual nomination process and identify some criteria they will use to evaluate nominees
Moonrise Azalee nods
Callipygian Christensen: that will avoid any suggestion that RA ‘only consider friends’ or any such..and also lays out criteria so that there may be a year that the ward is not awarded
Anna Toussaint: that is good advice … perhaps after our private deliberations as to the present candidate, it should be on th agenda for a future mtg
Moonrise Azalee: I agree
Anna Toussaint: so noted … I assume that shep will convene us for such a dicussion
Callipygian Christensen: Since the name of at least one nominee has been stated openly at the last RA meeting, I think ‘we’ being the global we that I thiink Treb must be referring to, should now expect that RA will discuss, decide and notify the chancellor of a need for an awards ceremonly at Octoberfest
Anna Toussaint: any further comments? Citizen’s concerns?
Tor Karlsvalt: brb
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: as you have said, it should be in private, which we do not have at this time
Anna Toussaint: unfortunately
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: yes Anna – I was just finishing thethought, and pointing out that there is a time concern
Anna Toussaint: Razzy?
Anna Toussaint:
Moonrise Azalee: I just have an RA member concern question.. two actually, may I bring them up?
Anna Toussaint: go ahead
Moonrise Azalee: 1) I noticed that the document link in the About Land/Covenant tab is broken.
Anna Toussaint: ah.
Moonrise Azalee: 2) wondering if there is something written somewhere about having purchased but empty parcels – meaning are there rules about having a parcel and leaving it empty, espcially as it pertains to city areas
Anna Toussaint: anything else?
Moonrise Azalee: nope
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: anyone care to comment on her comments?
Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Razzy was the link on the web portal?
Pip Torok: yes .. 1st to identify present instances …
Moonrise Azalee: No, in the About Land whn you click on it
Moonrise Azalee: Land Fees I believe
Trebor Warcliffe: Im not understanding what you’re asking than. I don’t believe there is a link in the About Land tab.
Moonrise Azalee: World, about land, covenant, a web address for a google document that has land fees
Trebor Warcliffe: The sale price is in the About Land tab and the tier information is in the Hippo sign.
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok ty
Trebor Warcliffe: I will look into that
Moonrise Azalee: Tier fees for each CDS parcel are listed here https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl= … utput=html. Responsibility for monthly fees continues until a new owner claims or you officially abandon the property.
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Sudane Erato: oh… i see it… its gotten truncated
Moonrise Azalee grins
Moonrise Azalee: yes.
Anna Toussaint: ok … how about her second question?
Pip Torok: i have commednted already …
Moonrise Azalee: I missed that I think Pip, could you repeat
Anna Toussaint: I didn’t catch it either
Pip Torok: ” yes .. 1st to identify present instances …”
Trebor Warcliffe: I dont have an answer immediately available but I certainly am not against people owning land just for the sake of owning land considering out state of affairs. For some its a way to help fill the coffers.
Moonrise Azalee: I agree-but having many empty shops just looks bad
Moonrise Azalee: is it so hard to place a chair or flowers or picture?
Pip Torok: i take it were NOT referring to prim-farms od course
Trebor Warcliffe: Well that is something I am working on
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: thanks Anna – empty parcels inNFS inside the city walls are a covenant contravention
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Callipygian Christensen: while I see the point of ‘we need people so let be flexible’ that poses problems down the road
Moonrise Azalee: Well, I realize there are homes, builds.. but more meaning totally empty buildings and market stalls. It just gives a Ghost Town impression and was wondering if there was a rule about that
Moonrise Azalee nods
Callipygian Christensen: because if X and Y can have empty prcels, or beehives, or whatever..then you should just toss that part of the covenant
Trebor Warcliffe: Razzy did you read about my efforts to bring in new business into the CDS?
Moonrise Azalee: Is that covenant an NFS only? or is that in CN as well?
Pip Torok: apart from the covenant .. no rule as I understand it
Anna Toussaint: Calli? are you done?
Moonrise Azalee apologizes for speaking out of turn
Callipygian Christensen: one quick addendum..if Razzy means the fachwerks that are empty, I am not sure if covenant or law says they must look occupied done
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: Razzy asked if it were in the covenant of CN?
Anna Toussaint: anybody know?
Anna Toussaint: without pulling it up, that is?
Callipygian Christensen: which..that parcels have a build or that the build be ‘in use’?
Trebor Warcliffe: Not at the moment but the covenents can be found in the About Land tabs
Callipygian Christensen: I think CN has no requirement
Sudane Erato: i’m reading it now… don’t see any mention of it
Moonrise Azalee has read through but saw nothing about it
Anna Toussaint: the first … parcels have a build
Anna Toussaint: Thanks, Sidane
Anna Toussaint: Sudane
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Anna Toussaint: yes?
Moonrise Azalee: I will bring this up on the forums when they are back up
Anna Toussaint: sounds good
Pip Torok: good idea!
Anna Toussaint: shall we move along?
Moonrise Azalee: yes
Anna Toussaint: k … how about the amendment? the link in the agenda doesn’t work
Moonrise Azalee: This is the one from the forum – about private land sales?
Moonrise Azalee: ‘is this’
Anna Toussaint: Yes
Moonrise Azalee: Fresh in my mind, I just read it before the site went down
Anna Toussaint: uh oh
Anna Toussaint: the forum is down
Anna Toussaint: does anybody have it on a notecard to pass around?
Callipygian Christensen: I am accessing the Forum
Sudane Erato: the forum is up for me
Anna Toussaint: good
Moonrise Azalee: ahh, its back
Pip Torok: great!
Anna Toussaint: can someone put up a url in chat?
Pip Torok: its still down for me …
Moonrise Azalee: propagation takes time
Anna Toussaint: can you post a url in chat, Razzy?
Moonrise Azalee: im just trying to find the actual thread… just as ec
Anna Toussaint:
Spider22997 Upshaw: index.php
Trebor Warcliffe: I have noticed sometimes using Internet Explorer I cant access the forums but have no problems accessing it when i use Google Chrome. Just a thought.
Moonrise Azalee: I see BEathan has requested a 7 day vote – he was unable to log in this mornning
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Moonrise Azalee: I can’t find the actual thread.. lol which section was he in
Moonrise Azalee: i mean ‘it’
Callipygian Christensen: general discussion request for covenant change or something like that
Anna Toussaint: I can’t find it …
Moonrise Azalee: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3892
Sudane Erato: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3892
Moonrise Azalee: there we go
Anna Toussaint: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3892
Anna Toussaint: oops
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: ok
Sudane Erato:
Anna Toussaint: does someone want to move we adopt it so we can discuss?
Pip Torok: i move the amenment as written by Tanoujin and amended by Sudane
Moonrise Azalee: i second that
Moonrise Azalee grins
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any comments?
Pip Torok: only that it seems to me straightforward .. both the original and the amendment
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Anna Toussaint: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: just to note that Shep seems to object to it rather fervently..
Sudane Erato: so
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Sudane Erato: if we are to go in that direction… it would be an executive matter
Sudane Erato: the ACTION of the ammendment would not change
Sudane Erato: DONE
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: Razzy?
Moonrise Azalee: Shep did say, upon departing this morning “I vote aye on the addition”
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: she did
Anna Toussaint: that is true
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Pip Torok: thats right …
Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: I have to point out that the amendment in Shep’s agenda is not identical to the forum items
Anna Toussaint: I cannot bring it up, for some reason
Moonrise Azalee: IT doesnt work for me either
Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: so she was saying aye to her own wording I am guessing..and if you are voting on this it should be cler *what* the motion is..it would be best to post the actual text here in chat
Pip Torok agrees with Calli
Anna Toussaint: I agree with Calli as well
Anna Toussaint: perhaps there should be a motion to table?
Moonrise Azalee: I just asked her for it, if she has the notecard
Moonrise Azalee: are you able to see what she has Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: Your status as citizen in this community is dependent on your making regular payment of the monthly fee for this land, which will be reclaimed by the community if you do not make this payment. Tier fees for each CDS parcel are listed here. Responsibility for monthly fees continues until a new owner claims or you officially abandon the property.
I propose adding these words * * to the above section of the property covenant
* Your rights to sell the property are revoked once tier is in arrears. *
Our laws already cover us for reclaiming the land .. but some wanted a few words of clarification
Anna Toussaint: so this is a new motion entirely
Callipygian Christensen: thtis the text shown in today’s agenda
Anna Toussaint: hmmm
Anna Toussaint: the motion was on the text in the forum
Anna Toussaint: that is what is before us
Moonrise Azalee: For what it is worth, I do agree with her wording.
Anna Toussaint: and what Shep left her vote on
Pip Torok: does this “revised” version contain the spirit of Sudanes amendment?
Sudane Erato: my ammendment was only to omit text that is no longer relevant
Anna Toussaint: we have a bill on the floor that is the text that is in forum
Pip Torok: ok then I too agree on the wording in the agenda
Moonrise Azalee: “”It is your responsibility to inform the treasurer of changes in ownership.” is the text you are referring to Sudane?
Sudane Erato: yes… that shpould be omitted as no longer relevant
Anna Toussaint: we have motion on the floor … we can propose a substitute motion and vote on it
Anna Toussaint: it would have Shep’s wording and Sudane’s amendment
Callipygian Christensen: this is the original proposed addition in the FOrum : Your right to sell land privately expires as soon as you are in arrears of your monthly fees for the parcel in question. The community may reclaim such a property without notice at the first opportunity.
Anna Toussaint: is there a motion to substitute?
Pip Torok: i move the substitution
Moonrise Azalee: I move to substitute as expressed here
Pip Torok: second
Callipygian Christensen: then Sudane added also delete: It is your responsibility to inform the treasurer of changes in ownership.
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of substituting the shep motion for the one on the floor, say aye
Moonrise Azalee: Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: it is subsity=uted
Anna Toussaint: now is there any discussion of that motion?
Anna Toussaint: are we ready to vote?
Pip Torok: yes…
Moonrise Azalee: yes
Anna Toussaint: all in favor say “aye”
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: as does the other chair
Anna Toussaint: motion carries
Moonrise Azalee smiles
Pip Torok: have we covered Sudanes deletion?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Sudane Erato: so is that final result an actual covenant change?
Pip Torok: good .. just checking, Mme LRA
Anna Toussaint: the substitute motion had shep’s wording and Sudane’s amendfment
Anna Toussaint: yes
Sudane Erato: if so I will do that too… as well as fix the link
Anna Toussaint: kk
Moonrise Azalee: great
Anna Toussaint: sounds good
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Sudane
Pip Torok: one more hole plugged!
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Anna Toussaint: Razzy? any news on the market?
Moonrise Azalee: no. I will bring it up for discussion in the Forum, but right now Oktoberfest is the focus and the Citizens Market conflicts. I did touch on it in the Amputate LA thread
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: Any commission reports?
Trebor Warcliffe: No just a short Executive Report
Anna Toussaint: Executive Report, Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
Trebor Warcliffe: TY
Trebor Warcliffe: Razzy the issue you brought up earlier today is something I’ve actually began working on.
Moonrise Azalee nods
Trebor Warcliffe: The CDS is bringing in affiliate businesses with all revenue going to the CDS.
Trebor Warcliffe: Currently I have almost completed the set up of an official Alli & Ali Hair Affiliate business
Trebor Warcliffe: The CDS gets 25% on all sales
Trebor Warcliffe: I’ve set the business up on the first and second floors of 4 of the insula parcels
Moonrise Azalee: That’s wonderful. I have only begun catching up on everything. but I did notice the Hair shop, fantastic.
Trebor Warcliffe: We have 366 Hair Vendors up and running
Anna Toussaint: how have sales been so far?
Trebor Warcliffe: Now I have to do the About Land description and marketplace advertsiing
Forum Wizard? Oh yeah!

Patroklus Murakami
Forum Wizard

Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Neufreistadt and Colonia Nova
Top
Re: 15 Sept 2012 RA Transcript
by Patroklus Murakami » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:45 am
Trebor Warcliffe: So far 2 sales, I have not started promoting the store yet becyuase I want evcerything in place
Anna Toussaint: of course
Trebor Warcliffe: Oktoberfest
Trebor Warcliffe: We have a GREAT line up this year
Trebor Warcliffe: Our last confirmation is Noma Falta
Trebor Warcliffe: on the 27th at 1pm SLT
Trebor Warcliffe: I’ve had no one inquire about stalls in the mrketplace
Trebor Warcliffe: Please touch the Oktoberfest sign in the Kiosks for the latest Notecard for teh fest.
Trebor Warcliffe: Of course I’d love to see as many of our citizens as possible in attendance
Anna Toussaint: I recall that Lilith, I think, used to set up the market … am I wrong, Tor?
Trebor Warcliffe: Im done with my report, thank you.
Trebor Warcliffe: I have to leave for now, RL calls
Trebor Warcliffe: Take care all
Anna Toussaint: ok
Pip Torok: u2 treb
Moonrise Azalee: By treb
Anna Toussaint: any general announcements?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: I was away for just over a week and in the 9 days inclduing that time, up til today, there have been 48 forum registrations
Anna Toussaint: holy guacamole
Moonrise Azalee raises hand
Anna Toussaint: are you finished, Calli?
Pip Torok hopes that most were genuine
Callipygian Christensen: most of these are not valid ones, so I will be deleting a lot. If you know of someone who registered and has not been activated yet, have them IM me and include the name they used to register
Moonrise Azalee puts hands down -forum bots was my question
Anna Toussaint: ok
Callipygian Christensen: that way I can be sure not to delete anyone who actually is in CDS and wants to join.
Anna Toussaint: anything else?
Callipygian Christensen: second – there is an SC meeting tomorrrow morning – agenda posted in owrld and in forums
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: any other announcements?
Anna Toussaint: next RA meeting same time, same place two weeks hence? on the 29th?
Tor Karlsvalt: raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Tor?
Tor Karlsvalt: Just want to say we have Noma Falta for 09/27 at 1 PM SLT
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Moonrise Azalee KNOWS she will be in attendance
Tor Karlsvalt: That is an addition to the Fest scheule
Tor Karlsvalt: done
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: next RA meeting?
Moonrise Azalee: AGreed
Pip Torok: agreed
Moonrise Azalee: same bat time, same bat place, 2 weeks
Anna Toussaint: is that during Oktobetrfest?
Anna Toussaint:
Tor Karlsvalt: yes
Moonrise Azalee: yeppers
Tor Karlsvalt: best 1st week in Oct
Anna Toussaint: what is that date?
Moonrise Azalee: 29th
Anna Toussaint: no, the first week in Oct?
Tor Karlsvalt: 10/06
Anna Toussaint: no, it would be, like the 5th
Sudane Erato: sorry… must run… thx
Tor Karlsvalt: Oct 1st is a monday
Pip Torok: bye sudane
Anna Toussaint: how about the first saturday in Oct, the 5th, same time, same place?
Callipygian Christensen: OH!
Moonrise Azalee: For our next RA meeting?
Pip Torok: fine by me
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand again
Anna Toussaint: reason being Oktoberfest
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Tor Karlsvalt: Oct 5 is Friday
Anna Toussaint: ok the 6th then
Anna Toussaint: oops
Moonrise Azalee: Okay
Anna Toussaint: ok
Callipygian Christensen: little bit of early warning here re: the 18th RA
Pip Torok: “oops” ok too …
Callipygian Christensen: Qualification deadline to run for office : 12 noon SLT October 2 (census generated on this date by Sudane)
Qualification deadline for right to vote: 12 noon SLT October 12 (census generated on this date by Sudane)
Anna Toussaint: next meeting is octyober 6th
Tor Karlsvalt: haha
Anna Toussaint: thanks Calli
Tor Karlsvalt looks for oops on the calendar.
Moonrise Azalee laughs
Anna Toussaint: so, it will be, like, our last meeting
Callipygian Christensen: no anna
Callipygian Christensen: elections are not until November
Anna Toussaint: oh, shit
Moonrise Azalee: LMAO
Tor Karlsvalt:
Anna Toussaint: well, next meeting is Oct 6 9:30 SLT right here in river city
Anna Toussaint: motion to adjourn
Pip Torok crosses himself ….
Moonrise Azalee laughs
Pip Torok: seconded
Anna Toussaint: was that a motion
Moonrise Azalee: LOL
Anna Toussaint: or has Razzy turned into a vampire/
Anna Toussaint: all in favor
Moonrise Azalee giggles
Moonrise Azalee: Aye
Callipygian Christensen: RL calls
Pip Torok: aye
Anna Toussaint: say aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Tor Karlsvalt: woot
Spider22997 Upshaw: aye
Moonrise Azalee: aye
Anna Toussaint: bye,everyone

Permalink.

RA Meeting 10 November 2012

10th Nov meeting TRANSCRIPT ..
by Shep » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
Please note as only two members were present we had no quorum and therefore this is not to be regarded as an official RA meeting .. but maybe interesting to read however
[09:39] Soro Dagostino: Sorry all, RL calls.
[09:39] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Tan
[09:39] Razzy: Bye Soro
[09:39] Soro Dagostino: Have a good meeting.
[09:39] Razzy: Hello Tan
[09:39] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone waves
[09:39] Shep: Hi Tan
[09:39] Rosie Gray: hiya Tan
[09:40] Rosie Gray: bye Soro
[09:40] Tanoujin Milestone: Hello Has the meeting started already?
[09:40] Soro Dagostino: Bye all . . .
[09:40] Shep: No Tan not really
[09:40] Razzy: We still need someone I believe.
[09:40] Shep: Byeeeee
[09:40] Callipygian Christensen: No idea – can’t imagine why anyone would return it, so he must have picked it up
[09:41] Rosie Gray: who picked up what Calli?
[09:41] Shep: Without a word seems odd
[09:41] Shep: Pats recorder
[09:41] Rosie Gray: oh Pat’s recorder
[09:42] Shep: We also have a small grey ball that says speak
[09:42] Tanoujin Milestone: Shep, I would like to ask the RA a tiny question about privacy protection on the forums – and leave it to you to place that where you see fit?
[09:42] Razzy: We still need a third person for the meeting
[09:42] Callipygian Christensen: well i see the Speak poseball still there
[09:43] Tanoujin Milestone: I know, i thought this would be okay to check before the meeting starts, Razzy
[09:43] Shep: We can’t ok anything .. but you can always ask a question
[09:43] Razzy: ah. of course
[09:43] RazzyRazzy smiles
[09:43] Shep: unofficially
[09:43] Tanoujin Milestone: always ok, like… now?
[09:43] Tanoujin Milestone: do not know how busy you are
[09:43] Callipygian Christensen: You could probably go ahead and ask now Tan – what moderation etc of the Forum there is is done by the SC
[09:43] Shep: yes go for it
[09:44] Tanoujin Milestone: ty
[09:45] Tanoujin Milestone: i have a database, containing parcel specifications and names… of the owners.. i thought of another update and forward it to the designatet chancellor… it came to my mind RA and SC could use that as welll, but not so sure about the privacy protection, it is calling names…. thoughts?
[09:45] Callipygian Christensen: I think parcel ownership is public knowledge
[09:46] Tanoujin Milestone: yes it is all inworld data
[09:46] Rosie Gray: I would think that it’s public knowledge, and so a document is no problem
[09:46] Tanoujin Milestone: nevertheless, it has implications
[09:46] Ranma Tardis: like?
[09:46] Tanoujin Milestone: like: You have only a shed at nfs, but i have 3 acres of land, etc
[09:47] Tanoujin Milestone: for example
[09:47] Shep: Why does that matter?
[09:47] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen shrugs – people can establish that by checking about Land – so still common knowledge imo
[09:47] Tanoujin Milestone: if you see no problem, i will go ahead…
[09:47] Rosie Gray: I don’t think it matters… not like you are broadcasting to all of SL
[09:47] Tanoujin Milestone: covered. Thank you
[09:47] Razzy: I can’t see a negative implication
[09:48] Shep: I don’t see the neccessity?
[09:48] Tanoujin Milestone: Hippo sync, as always, along with an adress list – i have that data, but i would need to work on it to filter names
[09:49] Shep: What stands before you is a small govermment person .. Not I hasten to add in the american role
[09:49] Tanoujin Milestone: so, if you see no problem, it spares me work of layout and leaves me time to collect the data
[09:49] Razzy: so is this a way to sync hippos so that one maybe paid for all?
[09:50] Razzy: like – for an owner of different parcels?
[09:50] Shep: Absolutely no conflict in that being public
[09:50] Rosie Gray: I don’t think they can be configured that way Razzy
[09:50] Tanoujin Milestone: Razzy, it has to be done manually, and that needs data… thanks for the answers anyway
[09:51] Razzy: I was just wondering what you meant by a hippo sync.
[09:51] Tanoujin Milestone: it needs inworld data, you have to go and take a look
[09:51] Razzy: but either way, as said. seems to be fine.
[09:51] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, say, the hippo sign states :”for sale” but the parcels isn’t for sale on the about land, etc, etc
[09:51] Callipygian Christensen: I have a sugggestion, in two parts for the incoming RA, since you are all here
[09:52] Shep: Ok .. seems the other three did’nt want to turn up .. Calli can I ask wheat happens about the election?
[09:52] Razzy: ahh. that would be great Tan!
[09:52] Callipygian Christensen: Shep, later this morning Ill be posting that all who ran are elected by acclamation
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: Did any of them ask for 7 day votes?
[09:53] Shep: Ok .. I’m assuming dates remain unchanged?
[09:53] Shep: Nope
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: Datesare consitutional, so no change *nod*
[09:54] Callipygian Christensen: Maybe they didnt see the notice..anyway..my suggestions are related to that
[09:54] Shep: Ok good thanks …
[09:54] Shep: ok please go ahead
[09:55] Callipygian Christensen: Since the time involved seems to be a concern, perhaps its time to designate that RA meets monthly, unles there is reason to call an unscheduled meeting – that is part 1..
[09:55] Callipygian Christensen: and part 2, perhaps deciding the dates of the whole terms meetings at the start would help RA members schedule and remember
[09:55] Shep: ok
[09:56] Razzy: like a 2nd or 3rd saturday of the month etc?
[09:56] Shep: Now that is a good idea
[09:56] Callipygian Christensen: On the election thing, once posted the 4 of you should establish a time for yur first meeting and let me know for the swearing in and liase with Tor about an Inaugural Ball
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: Yes Razzy, or identify the specific dates (or both)
[09:57] RazzyRazzy nods
[09:57] Shep: At our first meeting we should do that .. so anyone with family or country dates not available .. please bring a list
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: It would also assist citizens in knowing when they need to get info or prososals in
[09:57] Tanoujin Milestone: indeed
[09:57] Ranma Tardis: ok
[09:58] Shep: Well anytime has’nt produced much
[09:59] Shep: But I’m sure all that is about to change
[09:59] Tanoujin Milestone: I for one will adapt to those with RL obligations that is, I would carefully listen to Razzy regarding the dates. What you say Shep – it need preparation, I think – we cpould work between the meetings to draft some stuff
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: the entire 18th RA is here
[10:00] Shep: Yes it is
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: so what is our pleasure for meetings?
[10:00] Razzy: I think we need to wait until we are acutally the 18th RA dont we?
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: why?
[10:00] Rosie GrayRosie Gray grins
[10:01] Shep: Enofficially .. I would pick the first Sunday of the month
[10:01] Ranma Tardis: it is our meeting
[10:01] Tanoujin Milestone: I do not think so, Razzy, but you may want to sleep on it?
[10:01] Ranma Tardis: sunday is church for me
[10:02] Ranma Tardis: 8:30
[10:02] Ranma Tardis: saturday is better
[10:02] Razzy: I work Saturday mornings
[10:02] Razzy: Perhaps later in the day on Saturday
[10:02] Razzy: its 10am for me here right now and i start at 11
[10:03] Razzy: Shep is in UK and so needs a decent time
[10:03] Razzy: Time difference is always a pain, lol
[10:04] Razzy: My issue is, I have five kids here plus I do daycare, and so at a moments notice i suddenly am often not available.
[10:04] Razzy: that has been my problem this term also.
[10:04] Shep: Of all of you I have the easiest fit timewise
[10:05] Razzy: Weekends are especially busy with family, and weekdays im doing daycare. so often im only really online from 9:30pm SLT onwards.
[10:05] Ranma Tardis: saturday is good for me
[10:05] Ranma Tardis: plus sunday afternoon
[10:05] Tanoujin Milestone: Weekends including friday… 9:30 is ok for me
[10:06] Razzy: pm or am Tan?
[10:06] Tanoujin Milestone: uuuh, wait, let me calculate..
[10:07] Tanoujin Milestone: on saturday? would be okay
[10:07] Razzy: well, Saturday I am unavailable until about 4:00pm SLT normally. New job started last week. every saturday morning.
[10:07] Razzy: Sunday family is here from 3pm onward. til about 7pm
[10:07] Razzy: So, l dont know
[10:08] Shep: Thats midnight my time
[10:08] Razzy: right now I have to take off, i have to be out the door in twenty minutes and haven’t even been able to hit the shower yet. we’ll have to sort something out.
[10:08] Shep: But I’m usually around then
[10:08] Razzy: I know Shep – its not super fair to you
[10:09] Shep: Ok Razz
[10:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Razzy, I respect you have obligations… we will find a way..
[10:09] Shep: Hi Tor
[10:09] Razzy: im a virutal world night owl – im on SLT and mid day im only on sporadically.
[10:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Shep
[10:09] Shep: We;ll sort it hun
[10:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Everyone
[10:09] Ranma Tardis: hi
[10:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Tor
[10:09] Rosie Gray: don’t make yourself late Razzy!
[10:09] Shep: At least you want to help
[10:10] Razzy: k. So we can sort this out soon. as mentioned my most available times are 9:30pm SLT onward or Saturdays from 4pm onward…
[10:10] Razzy: k..
[10:10] Shep: ok
[10:10] Razzy: ttyl off i go to clean a church for 4 hours, lol
[10:10] Ranma Tardis: 4 is ok for me
[10:10] Shep: enjoy
[10:10] Shep: Ok
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: We changing the time?
[10:10] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone shrugs…. that is 3 am on saturday… why not…
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: ouch
[10:11] Shep: Tor do you know what happened to Pat’s recorder?
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: well you will be up for sunrise
[10:11] Rosie Gray: The new RA is trying to find a time they can all attend
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[10:11] Shep: ok
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: could it have been returned when some pumkins were added
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: or a sign
[10:12] Ranma Tardis: other than a few hours on sunday am fine
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Bears game.
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: hmmm
[10:12] Shep: brb
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: So what happened?
[10:14] Tanoujin Milestone: Tor? To the recorder?
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: I imagine that it got returned.
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: can’t that happen if a parcel gets too full?
[10:15] Tanoujin Milestone: anything can happen then, but i have heard it returns the “young” prims first
[10:15] Tanoujin Milestone: but – of course, that is done by a LL script, soooo
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well that was sort of young
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: the last you rezzed
[10:16] Shep: back
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I see
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: wb, Shep
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: wb shep
[10:16] Shep: Thx
[10:16] Shep: Thx all lol
[10:16] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone notes we need a recorder
[10:16] Shep: again
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: We managed without the recorder before.
[10:17] Shep: that was not successful last time
[10:17] Tanoujin Milestone: just chathistory, right, fine with me
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: I have had a freind create a recorder that allows multiple people to start and stop it
[10:17] Shep: Are you volunteering?
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: Just havent had a chance to test it yet
[10:18] Ranma Tardis: one thing am traditional and would like to see at least some meetings in neuf
[10:18] Shep: Ooooh Calli would they sell one?
[10:18] Tanoujin Milestone: Whom do you ask, Shep?
[10:18] Callipygian Christensen: Once I know it works, it will be what the SC uses
[10:18] Callipygian Christensen: Shep, that’s the general idea ..he’ll sell it once its working – we get it at a discount since he’s a friend, but he’s made it to my specs
[10:18] Shep: I was asking Tan as she mentioned being fine with it
[10:19] Tanoujin Milestone: you need a new archivist? I can do the transcript, yes
[10:19] Shep: Ok .. do those specs include a long recording time?
[10:19] Tanoujin Milestone: other stuff i need a break in
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: It e-mails to the person who started it recording, so time length in theory is unlimited – once it mails it frees up space for more iirc
[10:20] Shep: Ok then if yopu’d like the job its yours
[10:20] Shep: Providing I remain LRA lol
[10:20] Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe, this is another discussion
[10:21] Shep: Yes for our first official meeting
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Yup
[10:21] Ranma Tardis: have no objections
[10:21] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone takes the transcript job – prospectively
[10:21] Shep: Excellent
[10:21] Shep: Tor you’ll be holding the ball
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Are we planning to go through the formality of an election this year? didn’t they have a “no” vote option last time?
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yeah
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Traditionally the outgoing Chancellor holds the ball
[10:22] Shep: Calliis posting about the situation
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: but I don’t mind.
[10:22] Shep: Oh right
[10:22] Shep: Where is the boy?
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: no idea.
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: I can make an invite up
[10:23] Shep: Oh hope alls well
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: Tor – there wont be any polls placed – and the ‘no’ thing was something Pat wanted but it was never passed as a change to the election procedure
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: think is is shortly after the seating of the RA
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Callie
[10:24] Shep: So can we call the first meeting for the 1st December
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: prolly that is good.
[10:24] Shep: Its a Saturday
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: We can all get sworn in.
[10:25] Shep: so tell me your preferred time
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: It will probably be a short meeting.
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Ideally tho the LRA is elected.
[10:26] Shep: Calli if we have to swear Razzy in seperately will that be ok?
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: brb
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Delia
[10:26] Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Delia
[10:26] Shep: Hi Delia
[10:26] Delia Lake: hi everyone
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: she left, but I am sure that is ok
[10:26] Tanoujin Milestone: Any time is okay on that 1st of dec for me., i will be on vacation
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I think one year it was done at the ball.
[10:27] Rosie Gray: I remember that too
[10:27] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, last time, right after the ball, before the term started
[10:27] Shep: The Chancellor gets done at the ball
[10:27] Ranma Tardis: me too and 1st is fine
[10:27] Tanoujin Milestone: Yep, 1st is fine
[10:27] Shep: lol
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Well, we could have the ball that day too
[10:28] Shep: Tor what time is the ball usual;ly?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: or is that too much?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: oh noon
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: no later than 1
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: we could do 11
[10:28] Shep: T was on your wave length
[10:28] Shep: Brief meeting before the ball
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: has to be a good time for everyone or most everyone.
[10:28] Callipygian Christensen: back
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:29] Shep: wb
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Callie
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Want to do the ball Saturday the 1st?
[10:29] Callipygian Christensen: Razzy can be sworn in whenever – just cant vote on anything until she is, so just let meknow when she is present for it
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: say 11-1
[10:29] Shep: So RA meeting 11.15 !st DEc
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: we can do the ball the following week too
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: might be less of a rush
[10:30] Shep: We stand a better chance for people if its the same day?
[10:31] Tanoujin Milestone: It is nice to have it at the same date
[10:31] Ranma Tardis: rl business
[10:31] Shep: ok Ran
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: ok the first it is
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: say at noon – 2
[10:31] Shep: Excellent
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: That will give you time for an RA meeting.
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: the to the ball.
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: just need a DJ
[10:32] Shep: Calli are you free in your other position on the 1st Dec?
[10:32] Tor KarlsvaltTor Karlsvalt makes a sideways glance at Callie.
[10:32] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen laughs
[10:33] Shep: Stares straight at her
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: Right now I am yes – people havent started realizing that Dec is almost here to book things
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: ain’t it the truth
[10:33] Shep: Bats the ball top Tor
[10:34] Shep: Waits for him to say the words
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: oh sure
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: We will have the ball at noon Dec. 1st
[10:34] Callipygian Christensen: Well let me know once you track down Treb
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Our own Callipygian Christensen as DJ. True really Treb should approve
[10:35] Shep: Calli will you please be our DJ ?
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: If he can’t make it that day, it can still happen, but its usual for outgoing to say a few words etc isnt it?
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it is
[10:35] Delia Lake: yes
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: makes it more legit I think
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: /menods – Ill put it on the calendar so its reserved but a change is ok too if needed
[10:36] Tanoujin Milestone: thanks for posting it, Calli
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we can work on a back up
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: umm..no..I meant my personal booking calendar lol
[10:36] Shep: lol
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: posting it officially will have to be someone else
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: We can always have deutschrock.
[10:37] Shep: ???
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: oh sort of a joke.
[10:37] Ranma Tardis: need to go rl calls
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:37] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone wonders what tor is talking about
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: see you Ranma
[10:37] Shep: Ok Ran
[10:37] Callipygian Christensen: Rammstein I think lol
[10:37] Shep: see you 1st Dec
[10:37] Tanoujin Milestone: See you, Ranma
[10:38] Ranma Tardis: see you around
[10:38] Tor KarlsvaltTor Karlsvalt keeps silent but hopes Callie can DJ
[10:38] Shep: Well … any point in talking about InWorldz
[10:38] Rosie GrayRosie Gray hopes so too
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: Since this is the last RA meeting – albeit inquorate, I’d like to thank Shep for her service this term and for standing again
[10:39] Rosie Gray: yay… thanks Shep!
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: yes! Thank you, Shep
[10:39] Shep: Blushes
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Shep
[10:39] Shep: Well thank Soro .. I was’nt going to
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: InWorldz – yes, why not – any fun is welcome…. an embassy?
[10:39] Shep: I think he wants me busy lol
[10:40] Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe
[10:40] Callipygian Christensen: InWorldz discussion might be good for the Forum – but gie it it’s own topic heading so people notice it
[10:40] Delia Lake: yes, thank you Shep. and also thank you Tan and Tor for standing this next time as well
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: We will have to get Sorro to talk to a few other citizens maybe.
[10:40] Shep: You can try
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: Also, at your first meeting, you might want to call a by-election so that the SC can start the process
[10:41] Shep: Yes
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I am surprised there are so many grids.
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: Delia, I think we need RA to request that?
[10:41] Shep: I’ve been wondering who I can guilt up
[10:41] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone listens carefully
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Well seems we have an agenda item for the new RA then.
[10:42] Shep: Is Bags still a citizen?
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think she is.
[10:42] Tanoujin Milestone: I think she has a shop at the new insula
[10:42] Tanoujin Milestone: want me to chek?
[10:42] Shep: She was going to .. last I looked it was just gair
[10:43] Shep: hair
[10:43] Delia Lake: I think the RA should request it but a by-election would be almost automatic because the number of RA isn’t filled
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not following the InWorlz discussion, but I remember Caledon experimented with a colony.
[10:43] Callipygian Christensen: When I post the acclamation today, I will point out that a census for running and voting will be occurring so that people should pay up and set land accordingly
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: good idea
[10:43] Delia Lake: good idea, Calli
[10:43] Shep: Thanks Calli
[10:44] Delia Lake: remind folks who still have land set to group only that they would have no voting citizenship by that
[10:44] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen nods to Delia – I just don’t think we can really start the process until the RA exists without a filled seat
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: probably
[10:44] Shep: The idea I had was a colony for IWz .. theres a lot of sae access sims there
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: I will make a point to tell Ria
[10:45] Tanoujin Milestone: how many sims?
[10:45] Delia Lake: the by-election doesn’t get triggered until the new RA is all affirmed and under quota
[10:45] Shep: Have’nt thought that far
[10:45] Tanoujin Milestone: makes a lot of sense to me, Delia.
[10:45] Callipygian Christensen: Ria the Sign Queen, yes
[10:45] Rosie Gray: I kind of like that idea Shep
[10:45] Shep: depends on the interest
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Des gave up on the idea, but I could be wrong. Also not sure where it was.
[10:45] Rosie Gray: does anyone here actually know Ria? I’ve never met her
[10:45] Delia Lake: btw, I saw Jon this morning. He is now starting his recovery from the RL US election
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Naf knows here.
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: her
[10:46] Delia Lake: I do know Ria
[10:46] Callipygian Christensen: Delia – he was a big cheese in the NBC software!
[10:46] Rosie Gray: lol, that’s funny Delia
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: oh good
[10:46] Delia Lake: yes @ Calli
[10:46] Rosie Gray: aaah
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: wow, I was watcing MSNBC all the time
[10:46] Callipygian Christensen: He will be available for the by-election and also mentioned working on the software so that it is usable without him
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: he must have had something to do with that nifty campaign map they had.
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: that would be great
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: but would be even better if he was around too
[10:47] Delia Lake: Jon said that they had to do a complete update or results across the country on every issue every 30 min starting Tuesday. no sleep for days
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: wow
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I bet it was exhausting but fun.
[10:47] Delia Lake: yes, I think so
[10:48] Rosie Gray: wow indeed!
[10:48] Tanoujin Milestone: To answer your question, Shep, Bags has the Locus Amoenus P.7b
[10:48] Shep: Btw as I did’nt call the meeting to order .. does anyone want it transcripted?
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: ok by me
[10:49] Shep: thanks Tan
[10:49] Callipygian Christensen: I dont think you have to Shep..no quorum, no meeting
[10:49] Delia Lake: yes actually as I missed the beginning discussion–computer crashes
[10:49] Shep: Sooo I might have a word with her
[10:50] Tanoujin Milestone: let us post it
[10:50] Delia Lake: only if there is something that would be of interest then.
[10:50] Shep: Calli what happens if we can only get one to stand
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: then, as Jon put it, it’s a toally volunteer RA
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: sure, post it. You can mention it was a courtesy and not required.
[10:50] Tanoujin Milestone: k
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, and thank you volunteers.
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: if only one stands, they will be acclaimed in the same way all of you are
[10:51] Shep: Ok we will .. I’ll do it today Tan as you’re not onme of us yet
[10:51] Tanoujin Milestone: very correct, Shep
[10:51] Shep: *one
[10:51] Rosie Gray: interesting… she had announced on the forum that she was leaving CDS
[10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Really, why?
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: Delia..I suggested monthly RA meetings with the schedule set from the very start of the term
[10:52] Tanoujin Milestone: Rosie, if you takl about Bags – i followed that, and I welcomed her when she came back
[10:52] Shep: And I thought it a god idea
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: you could do monthly if you have committees perhaps
[10:52] Shep: Good even
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ok
[10:52] Rosie Gray: I didn’t know she had come back
[10:52] Rosie Gray: so that’s nice
[10:53] Tanoujin Milestone: she came back because the tone at the forums had changed
[10:53] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, for the amount of work there actually is in general, they could probably meet every other month with or without committees
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: BTW, we have a new citizen, Widget Whiteberry
[10:53] Tanoujin Milestone: and I told her I am glad about it
[10:53] Shep: Been back awhile .. but not seen her later and wondered if she went again like Dee did
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: she is running Virtually Speaking, an SL radio talk show from the Amphitheater in CN.
[10:54] Shep: About time it got some proper use
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I am really excited about the show.
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt: It has already had good traffic in CN
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt: And brings in people interested in politics.
[10:55] Delia Lake: Virtually Speaking used to have a sim. I’ve been telling Widget for years that it was overkill and she and VS should move to the CDS. finally she did
[10:55] Rosie Gray: that’s really fantastic
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it is an excellent fit
[10:55] Rosie Gray: just the partnership we should have here
[10:56] Shep: Yes exactly
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I invite everyone to check out some of the shows.
[10:57] Delia Lake: there are other social issues as well as politics discussed on VS
[10:57] Delia Lake: all the shows are audio archived
[10:57] Callipygian Christensen: I told Widget I’ll watch for the non-political oes
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Well the last one was sort of a-political, more political science
[10:58] Callipygian Christensen: ok..there is a snow shovel calling my name
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: oh wow
[10:58] Tanoujin Milestone: i wouls trash it then, hehehe
[10:58] Callipygian Christensen: enjoy the day everyone..anc come listen to the blues tonight if you are of a mind to
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: keep that away.
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: the snow I mean
[10:59] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, i missed the announcement… when is it?
[10:59] Rosie Gray: have fun shoveling Calli
[10:59] Shep: Good luck shifting the white stuff Calli
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: it’s not in CDS, so no announcement here Tan
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Yeha have fun.
[10:59] Tanoujin Milestone: ic
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: I do blues at 7 on Saturdays, SL time
[10:59] Rosie Gray: you can join Calli’s group
[10:59] Rosie Gray: to get the announcements
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: So much of the country has already had big snow
[11:00] Tanoujin Milestone: k, Rosie, good to know
[11:00] Callipygian Christensen: ok..later all!
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:00] Rosie Gray: I have to run too folks
[11:00] Rosie Gray: nice to see you all
[11:00] Tanoujin Milestone: and see you again
[11:00] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: tc Rosie
[11:00] Rosie Gray: see you Tan, Shep, tor
[11:00] Shep: Bye Rosie
[11:01] You have been added to the group.
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: things are going to be great
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I just know it.
[11:02] Tanoujin Milestone: sure, Tor
[11:02] Shep: Well I feel some enthusiasm
[11:02] Tanoujin Milestone: and I see work ahead, but i am not afraid… i think i need to see my doctor soon
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: oh
[11:03] Shep: Why?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope nothing serious.
[11:03] Tanoujin Milestone: work ahead, not afraid…. something wrong?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I hate doctors
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:03] Shep: lol
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: well Tan, I think we have a good core
[11:04] Shep: Oooooooh a brain disorfer
[11:04] Tanoujin Milestone: ehehe
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: you shouldn’t have to do everything yourself
[11:04] Shep: disorder*
[11:04] Tanoujin Milestone: yeah
[11:04] Shep: Who?
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: let me know if I can do anything.
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: oh you are Tan
[11:05] Tanoujin Milestone: ah, Tor, btw… not doing everything yourself…. do you have the citizens’ database of Trebor?
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think so
[11:05] Tanoujin Milestone: need one for sure?
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: unless he has it on google apps
[11:05] Shep: Who is doing everything alone?
[11:06] Tanoujin Milestone: Trebor did a lot on his own
[11:06] Tanoujin Milestone: to be frank
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Shep sometimes one has a tenency to take too much responsibility on one’s sholders.
[11:06] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone nods
[11:06] Shep: Yes I know he did
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: One can burn out
[11:07] Tanoujin Milestone: esp at the exec
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah it is a rough job
[11:07] Tanoujin Milestone: we will make it again I will do my best not to cause drama, I promise
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: But one good thing is I don’t see any exodus of citizens like we experienced the last two times Chancellors changed
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Tan, you drama?
[11:08] Shep: Well he had a gew people did’nt like him
[11:08] Shep: few
[11:08] Tanoujin Milestone: Sometimes, Tor…
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: oh prolly
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: but nobody left
[11:08] Shep: which is a shame because he’s a sweetheart
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: grumble maybe.
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: he was working way hard
[11:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Yes, that is true
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Trying to bring traffic in
[11:09] Shep: Did you get his humour? very british lol
[11:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Tor, will you have him as a treasurere assistant?
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: and really, all of us pay less tier cuz of him
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, sure
[11:09] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, thats good
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Treb, maybe. he liked that sarcasm.
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: hey Soro
[11:10] Tanoujin Milestone: Soro
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: Hello all.
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: Hello my lady.
[11:11] Shep: ooooh hello my love
[11:11] Soro Dagostino: Did anyone find the recorder?
[11:11] Shep: No so I have to find my history
[11:12] Tanoujin Milestone: no, I guess we will take a new one – Calli is about to test one for SC
[11:12] Shep: I hope I have it … this is my new computer :O
[11:12] Tanoujin Milestone: new hardware? Congrats….
[11:12] Shep: lol thanks
[11:12] Tanoujin Milestone: chatwindow not good enough?
[11:13] Soro Dagostino: Aren’t they in the Forums?
[11:13] Shep: My old one was broken
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I wonder if I should hook a mac mini up to my TV
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: have SL on a 55inch TV[09:39] Soro Dagostino: Sorry all, RL calls.
[09:39] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Tan
[09:39] Razzy: Bye Soro
[09:39] Soro Dagostino: Have a good meeting.
[09:39] Razzy: Hello Tan
[09:39] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone waves
[09:39] Shep: Hi Tan
[09:39] Rosie Gray: hiya Tan
[09:40] Rosie Gray: bye Soro
[09:40] Tanoujin Milestone: Hello Has the meeting started already?
[09:40] Soro Dagostino: Bye all . . .
[09:40] Shep: No Tan not really
[09:40] Razzy: We still need someone I believe.
[09:40] Shep: Byeeeee
[09:40] Callipygian Christensen: No idea – can’t imagine why anyone would return it, so he must have picked it up
[09:41] Rosie Gray: who picked up what Calli?
[09:41] Shep: Without a word seems odd
[09:41] Shep: Pats recorder
[09:41] Rosie Gray: oh Pat’s recorder
[09:42] Shep: We also have a small grey ball that says speak
[09:42] Tanoujin Milestone: Shep, I would like to ask the RA a tiny question about privacy protection on the forums – and leave it to you to place that where you see fit?
[09:42] Razzy: We still need a third person for the meeting
[09:42] Callipygian Christensen: well i see the Speak poseball still there
[09:43] Tanoujin Milestone: I know, i thought this would be okay to check before the meeting starts, Razzy
[09:43] Shep: We can’t ok anything .. but you can always ask a question
[09:43] Razzy: ah. of course
[09:43] RazzyRazzy smiles
[09:43] Shep: unofficially
[09:43] Tanoujin Milestone: always ok, like… now?
[09:43] Tanoujin Milestone: do not know how busy you are
[09:43] Callipygian Christensen: You could probably go ahead and ask now Tan – what moderation etc of the Forum there is is done by the SC
[09:43] Shep: yes go for it
[09:44] Tanoujin Milestone: ty
[09:45] Tanoujin Milestone: i have a database, containing parcel specifications and names… of the owners.. i thought of another update and forward it to the designatet chancellor… it came to my mind RA and SC could use that as welll, but not so sure about the privacy protection, it is calling names…. thoughts?
[09:45] Callipygian Christensen: I think parcel ownership is public knowledge
[09:46] Tanoujin Milestone: yes it is all inworld data
[09:46] Rosie Gray: I would think that it’s public knowledge, and so a document is no problem
[09:46] Tanoujin Milestone: nevertheless, it has implications
[09:46] Ranma Tardis: like?
[09:46] Tanoujin Milestone: like: You have only a shed at nfs, but i have 3 acres of land, etc
[09:47] Tanoujin Milestone: for example
[09:47] Shep: Why does that matter?
[09:47] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen shrugs – people can establish that by checking about Land – so still common knowledge imo
[09:47] Tanoujin Milestone: if you see no problem, i will go ahead…
[09:47] Rosie Gray: I don’t think it matters… not like you are broadcasting to all of SL
[09:47] Tanoujin Milestone: covered. Thank you
[09:47] Razzy: I can’t see a negative implication
[09:48] Shep: I don’t see the neccessity?
[09:48] Tanoujin Milestone: Hippo sync, as always, along with an adress list – i have that data, but i would need to work on it to filter names
[09:49] Shep: What stands before you is a small govermment person .. Not I hasten to add in the american role
[09:49] Tanoujin Milestone: so, if you see no problem, it spares me work of layout and leaves me time to collect the data
[09:49] Razzy: so is this a way to sync hippos so that one maybe paid for all?
[09:50] Razzy: like – for an owner of different parcels?
[09:50] Shep: Absolutely no conflict in that being public
[09:50] Rosie Gray: I don’t think they can be configured that way Razzy
[09:50] Tanoujin Milestone: Razzy, it has to be done manually, and that needs data… thanks for the answers anyway
[09:51] Razzy: I was just wondering what you meant by a hippo sync.
[09:51] Tanoujin Milestone: it needs inworld data, you have to go and take a look
[09:51] Razzy: but either way, as said. seems to be fine.
[09:51] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, say, the hippo sign states :”for sale” but the parcels isn’t for sale on the about land, etc, etc
[09:51] Callipygian Christensen: I have a sugggestion, in two parts for the incoming RA, since you are all here
[09:52] Shep: Ok .. seems the other three did’nt want to turn up .. Calli can I ask wheat happens about the election?
[09:52] Razzy: ahh. that would be great Tan!
[09:52] Callipygian Christensen: Shep, later this morning Ill be posting that all who ran are elected by acclamation
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: Did any of them ask for 7 day votes?
[09:53] Shep: Ok .. I’m assuming dates remain unchanged?
[09:53] Shep: Nope
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: Datesare consitutional, so no change *nod*
[09:54] Callipygian Christensen: Maybe they didnt see the notice..anyway..my suggestions are related to that
[09:54] Shep: Ok good thanks …
[09:54] Shep: ok please go ahead
[09:55] Callipygian Christensen: Since the time involved seems to be a concern, perhaps its time to designate that RA meets monthly, unles there is reason to call an unscheduled meeting – that is part 1..
[09:55] Callipygian Christensen: and part 2, perhaps deciding the dates of the whole terms meetings at the start would help RA members schedule and remember
[09:55] Shep: ok
[09:56] Razzy: like a 2nd or 3rd saturday of the month etc?
[09:56] Shep: Now that is a good idea
[09:56] Callipygian Christensen: On the election thing, once posted the 4 of you should establish a time for yur first meeting and let me know for the swearing in and liase with Tor about an Inaugural Ball
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: Yes Razzy, or identify the specific dates (or both)
[09:57] RazzyRazzy nods
[09:57] Shep: At our first meeting we should do that .. so anyone with family or country dates not available .. please bring a list
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: It would also assist citizens in knowing when they need to get info or prososals in
[09:57] Tanoujin Milestone: indeed
[09:57] Ranma Tardis: ok
[09:58] Shep: Well anytime has’nt produced much
[09:59] Shep: But I’m sure all that is about to change
[09:59] Tanoujin Milestone: I for one will adapt to those with RL obligations that is, I would carefully listen to Razzy regarding the dates. What you say Shep – it need preparation, I think – we cpould work between the meetings to draft some stuff
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: the entire 18th RA is here
[10:00] Shep: Yes it is
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: so what is our pleasure for meetings?
[10:00] Razzy: I think we need to wait until we are acutally the 18th RA dont we?
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: why?
[10:00] Rosie GrayRosie Gray grins
[10:01] Shep: Enofficially .. I would pick the first Sunday of the month
[10:01] Ranma Tardis: it is our meeting
[10:01] Tanoujin Milestone: I do not think so, Razzy, but you may want to sleep on it?
[10:01] Ranma Tardis: sunday is church for me
[10:02] Ranma Tardis: 8:30
[10:02] Ranma Tardis: saturday is better
[10:02] Razzy: I work Saturday mornings
[10:02] Razzy: Perhaps later in the day on Saturday
[10:02] Razzy: its 10am for me here right now and i start at 11
[10:03] Razzy: Shep is in UK and so needs a decent time
[10:03] Razzy: Time difference is always a pain, lol
[10:04] Razzy: My issue is, I have five kids here plus I do daycare, and so at a moments notice i suddenly am often not available.
[10:04] Razzy: that has been my problem this term also.
[10:04] Shep: Of all of you I have the easiest fit timewise
[10:05] Razzy: Weekends are especially busy with family, and weekdays im doing daycare. so often im only really online from 9:30pm SLT onwards.
[10:05] Ranma Tardis: saturday is good for me
[10:05] Ranma Tardis: plus sunday afternoon
[10:05] Tanoujin Milestone: Weekends including friday… 9:30 is ok for me
[10:06] Razzy: pm or am Tan?
[10:06] Tanoujin Milestone: uuuh, wait, let me calculate..
[10:07] Tanoujin Milestone: on saturday? would be okay
[10:07] Razzy: well, Saturday I am unavailable until about 4:00pm SLT normally. New job started last week. every saturday morning.
[10:07] Razzy: Sunday family is here from 3pm onward. til about 7pm
[10:07] Razzy: So, l dont know
[10:08] Shep: Thats midnight my time
[10:08] Razzy: right now I have to take off, i have to be out the door in twenty minutes and haven’t even been able to hit the shower yet. we’ll have to sort something out.
[10:08] Shep: But I’m usually around then
[10:08] Razzy: I know Shep – its not super fair to you
[10:09] Shep: Ok Razz
[10:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Razzy, I respect you have obligations… we will find a way..
[10:09] Shep: Hi Tor
[10:09] Razzy: im a virutal world night owl – im on SLT and mid day im only on sporadically.
[10:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Shep
[10:09] Shep: We;ll sort it hun
[10:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Everyone
[10:09] Ranma Tardis: hi
[10:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Tor
[10:09] Rosie Gray: don’t make yourself late Razzy!
[10:09] Shep: At least you want to help
[10:10] Razzy: k. So we can sort this out soon. as mentioned my most available times are 9:30pm SLT onward or Saturdays from 4pm onward…
[10:10] Razzy: k..
I am not a sheep … I am the Shepherdess .. An it harm none .. so mote it be ..

Shep
LRA

Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:11 pm
Location: UK
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Re: 10th Nov meeting TRANSCRIPT ..
by Shep » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:06 pm
Part two of the 10th Nov meeting ..
[10:10] Shep: ok
[10:10] Razzy: ttyl off i go to clean a church for 4 hours, lol
[10:10] Ranma Tardis: 4 is ok for me
[10:10] Shep: enjoy
[10:10] Shep: Ok
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: We changing the time?
[10:10] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone shrugs…. that is 3 am on saturday… why not…
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: ouch
[10:11] Shep: Tor do you know what happened to Pat’s recorder?
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: well you will be up for sunrise
[10:11] Rosie Gray: The new RA is trying to find a time they can all attend
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[10:11] Shep: ok
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: could it have been returned when some pumkins were added
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: or a sign
[10:12] Ranma Tardis: other than a few hours on sunday am fine
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Bears game.
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: hmmm
[10:12] Shep: brb
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: So what happened?
[10:14] Tanoujin Milestone: Tor? To the recorder?
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: I imagine that it got returned.
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: can’t that happen if a parcel gets too full?
[10:15] Tanoujin Milestone: anything can happen then, but i have heard it returns the “young” prims first
[10:15] Tanoujin Milestone: but – of course, that is done by a LL script, soooo
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well that was sort of young
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: the last you rezzed
[10:16] Shep: back
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I see
[10:16] Tanoujin Milestone: wb, Shep
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: wb shep
[10:16] Shep: Thx
[10:16] Shep: Thx all lol
[10:16] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone notes we need a recorder
[10:16] Shep: again
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: We managed without the recorder before.
[10:17] Shep: that was not successful last time
[10:17] Tanoujin Milestone: just chathistory, right, fine with me
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: I have had a freind create a recorder that allows multiple people to start and stop it
[10:17] Shep: Are you volunteering?
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: Just havent had a chance to test it yet
[10:18] Ranma Tardis: one thing am traditional and would like to see at least some meetings in neuf
[10:18] Shep: Ooooh Calli would they sell one?
[10:18] Tanoujin Milestone: Whom do you ask, Shep?
[10:18] Callipygian Christensen: Once I know it works, it will be what the SC uses
[10:18] Callipygian Christensen: Shep, that’s the general idea ..he’ll sell it once its working – we get it at a discount since he’s a friend, but he’s made it to my specs
[10:18] Shep: I was asking Tan as she mentioned being fine with it
[10:19] Tanoujin Milestone: you need a new archivist? I can do the transcript, yes
[10:19] Shep: Ok .. do those specs include a long recording time?
[10:19] Tanoujin Milestone: other stuff i need a break in
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: It e-mails to the person who started it recording, so time length in theory is unlimited – once it mails it frees up space for more iirc
[10:20] Shep: Ok then if yopu’d like the job its yours
[10:20] Shep: Providing I remain LRA lol
[10:20] Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe, this is another discussion
[10:21] Shep: Yes for our first official meeting
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Yup
[10:21] Ranma Tardis: have no objections
[10:21] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone takes the transcript job – prospectively
[10:21] Shep: Excellent
[10:21] Shep: Tor you’ll be holding the ball
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Are we planning to go through the formality of an election this year? didn’t they have a “no” vote option last time?
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yeah
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Traditionally the outgoing Chancellor holds the ball
[10:22] Shep: Calliis posting about the situation
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: but I don’t mind.
[10:22] Shep: Oh right
[10:22] Shep: Where is the boy?
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: no idea.
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: I can make an invite up
[10:23] Shep: Oh hope alls well
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: Tor – there wont be any polls placed – and the ‘no’ thing was something Pat wanted but it was never passed as a change to the election procedure
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: think is is shortly after the seating of the RA
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Callie
[10:24] Shep: So can we call the first meeting for the 1st December
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: prolly that is good.
[10:24] Shep: Its a Saturday
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: We can all get sworn in.
[10:25] Shep: so tell me your preferred time
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: It will probably be a short meeting.
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Ideally tho the LRA is elected.
[10:26] Shep: Calli if we have to swear Razzy in seperately will that be ok?
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: brb
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Delia
[10:26] Tanoujin Milestone: Hi Delia
[10:26] Shep: Hi Delia
[10:26] Delia Lake: hi everyone
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: she left, but I am sure that is ok
[10:26] Tanoujin Milestone: Any time is okay on that 1st of dec for me., i will be on vacation
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I think one year it was done at the ball.
[10:27] Rosie Gray: I remember that too
[10:27] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, last time, right after the ball, before the term started
[10:27] Shep: The Chancellor gets done at the ball
[10:27] Ranma Tardis: me too and 1st is fine
[10:27] Tanoujin Milestone: Yep, 1st is fine
[10:27] Shep: lol
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Well, we could have the ball that day too
[10:28] Shep: Tor what time is the ball usual;ly?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: or is that too much?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: oh noon
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: no later than 1
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: we could do 11
[10:28] Shep: T was on your wave length
[10:28] Shep: Brief meeting before the ball
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: has to be a good time for everyone or most everyone.
[10:28] Callipygian Christensen: back
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:29] Shep: wb
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Callie
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Want to do the ball Saturday the 1st?
[10:29] Callipygian Christensen: Razzy can be sworn in whenever – just cant vote on anything until she is, so just let meknow when she is present for it
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: say 11-1
[10:29] Shep: So RA meeting 11.15 !st DEc
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: we can do the ball the following week too
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: might be less of a rush
[10:30] Shep: We stand a better chance for people if its the same day?
[10:31] Tanoujin Milestone: It is nice to have it at the same date
[10:31] Ranma Tardis: rl business
[10:31] Shep: ok Ran
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: ok the first it is
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: say at noon – 2
[10:31] Shep: Excellent
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: That will give you time for an RA meeting.
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: the to the ball.
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: just need a DJ
[10:32] Shep: Calli are you free in your other position on the 1st Dec?
[10:32] Tor KarlsvaltTor Karlsvalt makes a sideways glance at Callie.
[10:32] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen laughs
[10:33] Shep: Stares straight at her
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: Right now I am yes – people havent started realizing that Dec is almost here to book things
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: ain’t it the truth
[10:33] Shep: Bats the ball top Tor
[10:34] Shep: Waits for him to say the words
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: oh sure
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: We will have the ball at noon Dec. 1st
[10:34] Callipygian Christensen: Well let me know once you track down Treb
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Our own Callipygian Christensen as DJ. True really Treb should approve
[10:35] Shep: Calli will you please be our DJ ?
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: If he can’t make it that day, it can still happen, but its usual for outgoing to say a few words etc isnt it?
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it is
[10:35] Delia Lake: yes
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: makes it more legit I think
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: /menods – Ill put it on the calendar so its reserved but a change is ok too if needed
[10:36] Tanoujin Milestone: thanks for posting it, Calli
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we can work on a back up
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: umm..no..I meant my personal booking calendar lol
[10:36] Shep: lol
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: posting it officially will have to be someone else
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: We can always have deutschrock.
[10:37] Shep: ???
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: oh sort of a joke.
[10:37] Ranma Tardis: need to go rl calls
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:37] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone wonders what tor is talking about
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: see you Ranma
[10:37] Shep: Ok Ran
[10:37] Callipygian Christensen: Rammstein I think lol
[10:37] Shep: see you 1st Dec
[10:37] Tanoujin Milestone: See you, Ranma
[10:38] Ranma Tardis: see you around
[10:38] Tor KarlsvaltTor Karlsvalt keeps silent but hopes Callie can DJ
[10:38] Shep: Well … any point in talking about InWorldz
[10:38] Rosie GrayRosie Gray hopes so too
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: Since this is the last RA meeting – albeit inquorate, I’d like to thank Shep for her service this term and for standing again
[10:39] Rosie Gray: yay… thanks Shep!
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: yes! Thank you, Shep
[10:39] Shep: Blushes
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Shep
[10:39] Shep: Well thank Soro .. I was’nt going to
[10:39] Tanoujin Milestone: InWorldz – yes, why not – any fun is welcome…. an embassy?
[10:39] Shep: I think he wants me busy lol
[10:40] Tanoujin Milestone: hehehe
[10:40] Callipygian Christensen: InWorldz discussion might be good for the Forum – but gie it it’s own topic heading so people notice it
[10:40] Delia Lake: yes, thank you Shep. and also thank you Tan and Tor for standing this next time as well
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: We will have to get Sorro to talk to a few other citizens maybe.
[10:40] Shep: You can try
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: Also, at your first meeting, you might want to call a by-election so that the SC can start the process
[10:41] Shep: Yes
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I am surprised there are so many grids.
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: Delia, I think we need RA to request that?
[10:41] Shep: I’ve been wondering who I can guilt up
[10:41] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone listens carefully
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Well seems we have an agenda item for the new RA then.
[10:42] Shep: Is Bags still a citizen?
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think she is.
[10:42] Tanoujin Milestone: I think she has a shop at the new insula
[10:42] Tanoujin Milestone: want me to chek?
[10:42] Shep: She was going to .. last I looked it was just gair
[10:43] Shep: hair
[10:43] Delia Lake: I think the RA should request it but a by-election would be almost automatic because the number of RA isn’t filled
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not following the InWorlz discussion, but I remember Caledon experimented with a colony.
[10:43] Callipygian Christensen: When I post the acclamation today, I will point out that a census for running and voting will be occurring so that people should pay up and set land accordingly
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: good idea
[10:43] Delia Lake: good idea, Calli
[10:43] Shep: Thanks Calli
[10:44] Delia Lake: remind folks who still have land set to group only that they would have no voting citizenship by that
[10:44] Callipygian ChristensenCallipygian Christensen nods to Delia – I just don’t think we can really start the process until the RA exists without a filled seat
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: probably
[10:44] Shep: The idea I had was a colony for IWz .. theres a lot of sae access sims there
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: I will make a point to tell Ria
[10:45] Tanoujin Milestone: how many sims?
[10:45] Delia Lake: the by-election doesn’t get triggered until the new RA is all affirmed and under quota
[10:45] Shep: Have’nt thought that far
[10:45] Tanoujin Milestone: makes a lot of sense to me, Delia.
[10:45] Callipygian Christensen: Ria the Sign Queen, yes
[10:45] Rosie Gray: I kind of like that idea Shep
[10:45] Shep: depends on the interest
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Des gave up on the idea, but I could be wrong. Also not sure where it was.
[10:45] Rosie Gray: does anyone here actually know Ria? I’ve never met her
[10:45] Delia Lake: btw, I saw Jon this morning. He is now starting his recovery from the RL US election
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Naf knows here.
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: her
[10:46] Delia Lake: I do know Ria
[10:46] Callipygian Christensen: Delia – he was a big cheese in the NBC software!
[10:46] Rosie Gray: lol, that’s funny Delia
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: oh good
[10:46] Delia Lake: yes @ Calli
[10:46] Rosie Gray: aaah
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: wow, I was watcing MSNBC all the time
[10:46] Callipygian Christensen: He will be available for the by-election and also mentioned working on the software so that it is usable without him
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt: he must have had something to do with that nifty campaign map they had.
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: that would be great
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: but would be even better if he was around too
[10:47] Delia Lake: Jon said that they had to do a complete update or results across the country on every issue every 30 min starting Tuesday. no sleep for days
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: wow
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I bet it was exhausting but fun.
[10:47] Delia Lake: yes, I think so
[10:48] Rosie Gray: wow indeed!
[10:48] Tanoujin Milestone: To answer your question, Shep, Bags has the Locus Amoenus P.7b
[10:48] Shep: Btw as I did’nt call the meeting to order .. does anyone want it transcripted?
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: ok by me
[10:49] Shep: thanks Tan
[10:49] Callipygian Christensen: I dont think you have to Shep..no quorum, no meeting
[10:49] Delia Lake: yes actually as I missed the beginning discussion–computer crashes
[10:49] Shep: Sooo I might have a word with her
[10:50] Tanoujin Milestone: let us post it
[10:50] Delia Lake: only if there is something that would be of interest then.
[10:50] Shep: Calli what happens if we can only get one to stand
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: then, as Jon put it, it’s a toally volunteer RA
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: sure, post it. You can mention it was a courtesy and not required.
[10:50] Tanoujin Milestone: k
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, and thank you volunteers.
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: if only one stands, they will be acclaimed in the same way all of you are
[10:51] Shep: Ok we will .. I’ll do it today Tan as you’re not onme of us yet
[10:51] Tanoujin Milestone: very correct, Shep
[10:51] Shep: *one
[10:51] Rosie Gray: interesting… she had announced on the forum that she was leaving CDS
[10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Really, why?
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: Delia..I suggested monthly RA meetings with the schedule set from the very start of the term
[10:52] Tanoujin Milestone: Rosie, if you takl about Bags – i followed that, and I welcomed her when she came back
[10:52] Shep: And I thought it a god idea
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: you could do monthly if you have committees perhaps
[10:52] Shep: Good even
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ok
[10:52] Rosie Gray: I didn’t know she had come back
[10:52] Rosie Gray: so that’s nice
[10:53] Tanoujin Milestone: she came back because the tone at the forums had changed
[10:53] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, for the amount of work there actually is in general, they could probably meet every other month with or without committees
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: BTW, we have a new citizen, Widget Whiteberry
[10:53] Tanoujin Milestone: and I told her I am glad about it
[10:53] Shep: Been back awhile .. but not seen her later and wondered if she went again like Dee did
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: she is running Virtually Speaking, an SL radio talk show from the Amphitheater in CN.
[10:54] Shep: About time it got some proper use
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I am really excited about the show.
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt: It has already had good traffic in CN
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt: And brings in people interested in politics.
[10:55] Delia Lake: Virtually Speaking used to have a sim. I’ve been telling Widget for years that it was overkill and she and VS should move to the CDS. finally she did
[10:55] Rosie Gray: that’s really fantastic
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it is an excellent fit
[10:55] Rosie Gray: just the partnership we should have here
[10:56] Shep: Yes exactly
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I invite everyone to check out some of the shows.
[10:57] Delia Lake: there are other social issues as well as politics discussed on VS
[10:57] Delia Lake: all the shows are audio archived
[10:57] Callipygian Christensen: I told Widget I’ll watch for the non-political oes
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Well the last one was sort of a-political, more political science
[10:58] Callipygian Christensen: ok..there is a snow shovel calling my name
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: oh wow
[10:58] Tanoujin Milestone: i wouls trash it then, hehehe
[10:58] Callipygian Christensen: enjoy the day everyone..anc come listen to the blues tonight if you are of a mind to
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: keep that away.
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: the snow I mean
[10:59] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, i missed the announcement… when is it?
[10:59] Rosie Gray: have fun shoveling Calli
[10:59] Shep: Good luck shifting the white stuff Calli
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: it’s not in CDS, so no announcement here Tan
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Yeha have fun.
[10:59] Tanoujin Milestone: ic
[10:59] Callipygian Christensen: I do blues at 7 on Saturdays, SL time
[10:59] Rosie Gray: you can join Calli’s group
[10:59] Rosie Gray: to get the announcements
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: So much of the country has already had big snow
[11:00] Tanoujin Milestone: k, Rosie, good to know
[11:00] Callipygian Christensen: ok..later all!
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:00] Rosie Gray: I have to run too folks
[11:00] Rosie Gray: nice to see you all
[11:00] Tanoujin Milestone: and see you again
[11:00] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: tc Rosie
[11:00] Rosie Gray: see you Tan, Shep, tor
[11:00] Shep: Bye Rosie
[11:01] You have been added to the group.
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: things are going to be great
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I just know it.
[11:02] Tanoujin Milestone: sure, Tor
[11:02] Shep: Well I feel some enthusiasm
[11:02] Tanoujin Milestone: and I see work ahead, but i am not afraid… i think i need to see my doctor soon
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: oh
[11:03] Shep: Why?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope nothing serious.
[11:03] Tanoujin Milestone: work ahead, not afraid…. something wrong?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I hate doctors
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:03] Shep: lol
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: well Tan, I think we have a good core
[11:04] Shep: Oooooooh a brain disorfer
[11:04] Tanoujin Milestone: ehehe
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: you shouldn’t have to do everything yourself
[11:04] Shep: disorder*
[11:04] Tanoujin Milestone: yeah
[11:04] Shep: Who?
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: let me know if I can do anything.
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: oh you are Tan
[11:05] Tanoujin Milestone: ah, Tor, btw… not doing everything yourself…. do you have the citizens’ database of Trebor?
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think so
[11:05] Tanoujin Milestone: need one for sure?
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: unless he has it on google apps
[11:05] Shep: Who is doing everything alone?
[11:06] Tanoujin Milestone: Trebor did a lot on his own
[11:06] Tanoujin Milestone: to be frank
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Shep sometimes one has a tenency to take too much responsibility on one’s sholders.
[11:06] Tanoujin MilestoneTanoujin Milestone nods
[11:06] Shep: Yes I know he did
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: One can burn out
[11:07] Tanoujin Milestone: esp at the exec
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah it is a rough job
[11:07] Tanoujin Milestone: we will make it again I will do my best not to cause drama, I promise
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: But one good thing is I don’t see any exodus of citizens like we experienced the last two times Chancellors changed
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Tan, you drama?
[11:08] Shep: Well he had a gew people did’nt like him
[11:08] Shep: few
[11:08] Tanoujin Milestone: Sometimes, Tor…
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: oh prolly
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: but nobody left
[11:08] Shep: which is a shame because he’s a sweetheart
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: grumble maybe.
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: he was working way hard
[11:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Yes, that is true
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Trying to bring traffic in
[11:09] Shep: Did you get his humour? very british lol
[11:09] Tanoujin Milestone: Tor, will you have him as a treasurere assistant?
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: and really, all of us pay less tier cuz of him
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, sure
[11:09] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, thats good
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Treb, maybe. he liked that sarcasm.
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: hey Soro
[11:10] Tanoujin Milestone: Soro
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: Hello all.
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: Hello my lady.
[11:11] Shep: ooooh hello my love
[11:11] Soro Dagostino: Did anyone find the recorder?
[11:11] Shep: No so I have to find my history
[11:12] Tanoujin Milestone: no, I guess we will take a new one – Calli is about to test one for SC
[11:12] Shep: I hope I have it … this is my new computer :O
[11:12] Tanoujin Milestone: new hardware? Congrats….
[11:12] Shep: lol thanks
[11:12] Tanoujin Milestone: chatwindow not good enough?
[11:13] Soro Dagostino: Aren’t they in the Forums?
[11:13] Shep: My old one was broken
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I wonder if I should hook a mac mini up to my TV
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: have SL on a 55inch TV
[11:13] Shep: I would’nt have the first idea lol
[11:14] Shep: Bloody hell almost like size
[11:14] Shep: Life*
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: you know you can open your chat history from preferences with FS
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah, the TV would be
[11:14] Shep: Yes if I have it ticked
[11:15] Shep: I’ll just go look brb

I want to say thanks for supplying this transcript Tan … and am so pleased you want to continue doing it

Permalink.

16th Representative Assembly (5)

RA Meeting 17 March 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of March 17, 2012

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business
— Proposals regarding citizenship qualifications (Pat) (15 min)
the text of the proposed legislation may be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3609&p=19551#p19540
– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary

1. The RA voted to reform CDS Citizenship rules following the Citizenship Transparency Commission. The Bill, as passed, is here. Briefly, ‘group’, ‘sponsor’ and ‘partner’ citizenship are abolished and citizenship derives from land ownership (at least one plot) and being current in tier payments (for at least one plot). Anyone affected by this change is encouraged to purchase one of the many lots for sale in the CDS to maintain their citizenship.

Ayes – Anna, Patroklus, Rosie, Shep. Beathan has a 7-day vote.

2. The RA received brief reports from the Expansion Commission and the Chancellor.

3. The RA agreed to meet again on 31 March 2012.

Shep Titian: ok .. lets start
Rosie Gray: Did Anna say she might not make it?
Patroklus Murakami: the one in the box is out of date
Shep Titian: Ah ok
Patroklus Murakami: i made a revision today following feedback on the forums. but we can sort that out when we get to it
Shep Titian:
Shep Titian: Ok Anna thought she may be a little late and asked me to start off
Shep Titian: So have you all read the agenda and approve it?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Shep Titian: Ah she’s online
Rosie Gray: I haven’t read the Agenda yet
Shep Titian: lol .. might I politely suggest you do
Rosie Gray: lol
Rosie Gray: hello Anna
Patroklus Murakami: hi anna
Shep Titian: Hi Anna .. we barely began
Anna Toussaint: crap
Anna Toussaint: hi everyone
Shep Titian: teehee
Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Anna
Rosie Gray: hi Calli
Shep Titian: Hi Calli
Callipygian Christensen: *yawn* morning
Patroklus Murakami: hi calli
Anna Toussaint: Pat, would you pass everyone that notecard with your updated proposals?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, will do
Anna Toussaint: Hi Treb, Calli
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: the latest agenda is in the box, along with an older version of Pat’s proposals
Shep Titian: Treb Calli and I got your destination notice done
Patroklus Murakami: done
Trebor Warcliffe: Awesome
Rosie Gray: quick work, Shep
Trebor Warcliffe: This group is awesome
Trebor Warcliffe: the music group on the media, sorry
Anna Toussaint: ok, let’s get started
Anna Toussaint: any additions, subtractions or gripes about the agenda?
Rosie Gray: looks fine to me
Shep Titian: nope none
Patroklus Murakami: fine by me
Anna Toussaint: let’s approve by acclamation?
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Anna Toussaint: it’s 11 here
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: has anybody heard from Beathan?
Shep Titian: Nope
Patroklus Murakami: no
Anna Toussaint: well, I declare that 7 dlay vote rules apply unless he shows
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Anna Toussaint: Pat is here to speak to his proposals
Rosie Gray nods
Callipygian Christensen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Anna Toussaint: Shep, will you send out a group notice reminding folks of this meeting?
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: Any citizen concerns?
Anna Toussaint: seeing nothing,
Anna Toussaint: any RA member’s concerns?
Shep Titian: Will do Anna
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Rosie Gray: no concerns
Anna Toussaint: shep?
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: cooooool
Anna Toussaint: no old business, no on to pat’s proposals
Anna Toussaint: pat?
Anna Toussaint: damn lag
Patroklus Murakami: shall i post them for the transcript?
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Shep!
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: go ahead
Patroklus Murakami: Bill #1: Citizenship Establishment
Preamble
CDSL 13-10, Citizenship Bill, attempted to define more precisely the link between citizenship and land established as a fundamental principle in the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) in its Article VI ? Citizenship, by establishing guidelines on how to incorporate the citizenship grant made to citizens who used previous laws to become citizens without a direct relationship with land ownership.
However, in subsequent events, it was made clear that the extraordinary amount of legislation covering all possible cases for citizenship complicated the establishment of an official List of Citizens as per the requirements of NL 5-15, Citizen Information Act. As a result, this list is rarely updated and requires individual validation of each and every member on the list.
Therefore, this bill provides a new and easier method to validate citizenship by keeping to the guidelines set forth in the Constitution.
Patroklus Murakami: 1. “Granting title to land” is henceforward defined as being listed as the sole proprietor of a parcel of land, as shown by the About Land tool (or whatever technological feature of the official Second Life Viewer shows the ownership of a parcel).
2. Citizens shall be entitled to vote in CDS elections and/or stand for office if, on the date set by the Scientific Council in accordance with the Constitution for this purpose, they own at least one parcel of land and are current in their tier payments for at least one parcel. A citizen shall be an individual avatar whose name appears on both the Hippo list as being current in the tier payments and on a list of current parcel owners.
3. Private land can optionally be set (but not deeded) to any group, but that does not entitle any member of the group a grant to the title of the land. Mistakenly deeded land should be reverted, optionally with the assistance from the Estate Owner or any similar role with the appropriate land management powers.
4. Public land, or
Patroklus Murakami: 4. Public land, or land owned by organisations incorporated in the CDS, can be deeded to a group. As per the previous article, this does not grant members of the group any title to the land.
5. “Sponsored locations” in the terms previously defined under CDSL 13-10 are abolished. Land set or deeded to groups under the provision of CDSL 13-10 will revert to public land status and claimed by the appropriate land management group set by Government for the region.
6. Citizenship derived solely through membership of a group or through being the partner of a CDS citizen is hereby abolished.
7. Membership in any “waiting list” for acquisition of a first parcel in the CDS, to be sold by Government as soon as new regions or parcels are opened for sale, does not confer citizenship status to those members, since it does not effectively confer grant title to land.
Patroklus Murakami: 8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS and shall be entitled to [a waiver of the land ownership/transfer cost/a discount purchase price of $L/sq m], only in the case that the parcel bought is the property of the CDS Government, and only for the first parcel purchased under this provision. Any citizen purchasing a parcel through the provisions of this Act will only be permitted to sell the parcel back to the CDS Government for the price paid.
9. [Citizens losing their status due to the revocation of CDSL 13-10, when buying their first parcel of land in the CDS, will have priority in applying for any paid Civil Service role (under the provision of NL 5-7, Civil Service Act, and subsequent legislation), in case any such new role is announced or an existing role has a vacancy, provided that the candidate has the adequate competences and skills required to apply for that role.]
Patroklus Murakami: Bill #2: Citizenship membership publication for election purposes
Preamble
It is the law of the CDS that citizens must hold the title to their land for more than 28 days, and have tier payed in full to qualify to vote or to run for office. However, due to the complexities of the electoral calendar, the validation of that requirement is unnecessarily complicated.
The Citizen List shall be the certified list of CDS citizens eligible to run for office or vote in CDS Elections. The Citizen List will be created in the following manner:
Patroklus Murakami: 1. At 12 noon on the dates designated by the Scientific Council, the Estate Manager or his or her designate, will generate both a Hippo list of tier payors and a Land Scanner list of parcel owners. They will then compare these two lists to determine that a given name appears on both lists, and that that given name is current in at least one parcel tier payment. The Estate Manager or his or her designate will use these lists to create one list of the citizens who are qualified to run for office or vote, the Citizen List. (In the event that the upgrade to the Land Scanner is not available in time for the generation of the Citizen List for the June 2012 elections, the Hippo List alone will be used).
2. Within 24 hours this List will be delivered to the Chancellor, who will publish the List on the CDS Forums, by notecard to the SL group ‘CDS’, by notecard available at the Praetorium and any other public location the Chancellor may choose, and on the CDS web portal.
Patroklus Murakami: 3. Only those citizens whose names appear on the published Citizen List may run for office or vote in the CDS elections.
4. Any citizen may challenge the inclusion or omission of an avatar on the Citizen List by petitioning the Scientific Council. Any such petition challenging the Citizen List must be received by the Dean of the SC no later than midnight, 21 days after that Citizen List is published. The SC will make every effort to resolve such challenges within 7 days, so that nominations and elections can proceed with an accurate Citizen List.
5. This bill revokes NL 5-17, Census Scheduling Act. The number of seats in the Representative Assembly shall be calculated on the day the Citizen List is published for the express purpose of determining citizen eligibility to vote.
Patroklus Murakami: 6. This bill applies to all elections and by-elections of Government members, representatives, or any official polling act called by any of the Government Branches (such as referenda or public consultation) that may have legislative power.
7. This bill does not revoke any other right of citizens, specifically NL 5-21, Citizen Involvement Act, or any public contest without the force of legislative power, such as proposing a new theme for an upcoming region to be publicly opened, redesigning the CDS official presence, or similar non-legislative acts.
Patroklus Murakami: my wall of text crits you for +10 !
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Pat!
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi
Patroklus Murakami: so, to summarise, we held a second commission meeting on 4 March
Rosie Gray: there are no changes from the last version posted on the forums, Pat?
Shep Titian: Hi Sudane
Rosie Gray: hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi hi
Patroklus Murakami: no rosie, this is the latest version as posted on the forums
Anna Toussaint: ah
Rosie Gray nods
Patroklus Murakami: i tidied up gwyn’s proposals following the commission
Patroklus Murakami: and calli and sudane commented on the proposals
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve incorporated their updates in the drafts posted above
Patroklus Murakami: and the notecards i handed out earlier
Patroklus Murakami: (the ones in teh agenda are out of date as this was updated today)
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll pass to sudane shortly
Anna Toussaint: good
Patroklus Murakami: main issue we have to sort out (apart from whether we approve these proposals or not)
Patroklus Murakami: 1) should ppl get land for free if we abolish their group/partner/ sponsor citizenship?
Patroklus Murakami: or pay a nominal fee?
Patroklus Murakami: 2) should they have priority for civil service positions?
Shep Titian: I would suggest free for a smmall plot
Patroklus Murakami: i think we can deal with that by amending the first bill (see the bits in square brackets)
Rosie Gray raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: should i move the motion etc? to kick off debate?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: the we will take them one at a time
Fern Leissa has indicated consent to be recorded.
Anna Toussaint: so, the first one please
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Fern
Patroklus Murakami: i move we discuss the proposals for legislation. first bill first
Anna Toussaint: is it a motion or a motion to discuss?
Rosie Gray: I second
Anna Toussaint: a motion to pass?
Rosie Gray: to discuss
Rosie Gray: I thought
Anna Toussaint: why do that?
Anna Toussaint: we can discuss if it has been moved …
Patroklus Murakami: whichever discuss first, then vote on them? sorry, i get confused by roberts rules meetings
Anna Toussaint: :0
Rosie Gray shrugs
Rosie Gray: I do as well Pat
Sudane Erato: me too!
Callipygian Christensen: (You put the motion for the actual passsing out, then discuss it
Anna Toussaint: will you withdraw the motion to discuss
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: withdrawn
Patroklus Murakami: i move the first bill
Anna Toussaint: second?
Rosie Gray: I second the motion
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: now, let’s discusd
Anna Toussaint: discuss
Anna Toussaint: (that wasn’t so hard, was it?)
Rosie Gray makes a face
Anna Toussaint:
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand to speak to the fee or purchased land aspect
Rosie Gray raises hand
Anna Toussaint: go for it, calli
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Anna Toussaint: then rosie
Anna Toussaint: then sudane
Shep Titian: Tries to damp down excitement
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Shep Titian: sorry … we won!!!
Patroklus Murakami: gratz shep 16-9?
Shep Titian: yes
Callipygian Christensen: Since right now only one person is affected by this, it seems a minor thing – the reason I spoke to it on the Forums is that here in CDS
Callipygian Christensen: we have a history and practise of looking at previous situations to respond to new ones
Callipygian Christensen: So while in this case it is one person, some future situation might be 10, or 20..and some RA will look back and say ‘well, we gave land away here, so should do the same now’
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Rosie Gray: I don’t understand why we would give land away
Rosie Gray: since everyone else who has become a citizen, has had to pay for it
Rosie Gray: what is the thought behind that?
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Rosie Gray: done
Anna Toussaint: pat, you may speak to rosies question
Patroklus Murakami: i can only guess at gwyn’s motive but.. i think her reasoning would have been:
Patroklus Murakami: we are taking away someone’s citizenship if they are a partner/ sponsor/group member
Patroklus Murakami: so it’s only fair that we should offer ppl an ‘easy’ way to regularise their citizenship, should they wish to remain citizens
Patroklus Murakami: some of our parcels are quite pricey and might be out of their range
Rosie Gray: hmmm
Anna Toussaint: I have a question: can it be grandfathered?
Rosie Gray raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand to discuss pricing
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep Titian: I think there should be a limit
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be happy to charge a nominal fee instead. say $L1/sq m
Fern Leissa: /raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: Single prim land is L$ 1.50/sqm
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Anna Toussaint: then sudane
Trebor Warcliffe: Double prim is L$3.00/sqm
Rosie Gray: I think we could do this, one time, only
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Rosie Gray: and the smallest parcels for sale only
Shep Titian: But we should’nt forget the bigger parcels cost a higher tier .. so its unlikely they would want that commitment
Trebor Warcliffe: Alexia click on the BALL not the chair
Anna Toussaint: may I make a comment?
Rosie Gray: but I don’t think it’s fair really to reward people who didn’t purchase land
Anna Toussaint: if that person is who I think it is, she doesn’t care
Rosie Gray: in the first place
Rosie Gray: done
Soro Dagostino raise hand
Shep Titian: No I can see your point Rosie
Anna Toussaint: sorry, rosie
Anna Toussaint: sudane, then soro
Anna Toussaint: sudane?
Sudane Erato: yes
Anna Toussaint: you wanted to speak earlier?
Sudane Erato: I think its utterly irrelevant whether we give the parcel or sell the parcel..
Sudane Erato: the revenue we get is tier… not land sale
Sudane Erato: and I would be totally oppesed to forgiveness of tier
Rosie Gray: of course!
Sudane Erato: which is not the case with this proposal
Sudane Erato: so that it think you should do what you like
Sudane Erato: but
Sudane Erato: for the life of me
[ssb] Currency Converter 1.03: Type the value to be converted followed by the currency symbol and a question mark into chat. Example: 500L$?
Sudane Erato: I cannot fathom what this issue has to do with civil service positions
Rosie Gray agrees heartily
Sudane Erato: i think that should NOT be done
Sudane Erato: done
Anna Toussaint: soro?
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . . Question.
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Rosie Gray raises hand
Soro Dagostino: What matter is before the body?
Anna Toussaint: yes?
Soro Dagostino: The maker of the motion did not state the issue.
Anna Toussaint: the matter of Pat’s proposed legislature re citizenships
Soro Dagostino: In its entirety?
Anna Toussaint: no
Anna Toussaint: proposal one
Anna Toussaint: it is on the forum
Patroklus Murakami: i move bill #1
Patroklus Murakami: *moved
Anna Toussaint:
Soro Dagostino: I didn’t see that in my transcript.
Anna Toussaint: now, who was next
Anna Toussaint: ok\
Anna Toussaint: it was there
Patroklus Murakami: may I?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: in the interests of moving things on, why don’t we set a fee of L$1000 for any land purchased under article 8? then ppl have to pay something for the land?
Patroklus Murakami: and, of course, no tier waiver
Patroklus Murakami: done
Trebor Warcliffe: With all due respect our prices are extremly cheap
Rosie Gray raises hand again
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Anna Toussaint: sorry I missed you before
Rosie Gray: I still think that it’s not fair
Rosie Gray: to existing citizens who have all paid for their land
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Rosie Gray: I just don’t see the reasoning to give it away… as Trebor points out they are very fairly priced
Anna Toussaint: trebor?
Patroklus Murakami: ok. instead we could make 8 read as follows “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS “
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, then Soro
Rosie Gray: perhaps we could give some small incentive
Trebor Warcliffe: If this legislation is passed as is will this be an issue further on down the road? If not than it is a mute point.
Rosie Gray: and I also do not see any connection at all to the Civil Service role
Trebor Warcliffe: They pay for a parcel just like all of us have done
Trebor Warcliffe: Our sale prices are the cheapest in years
Rosie Gray: and now I’m done
Anna Toussaint:
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: 1.5/sqm SP 3.0/sam DP
Shep Titian: It only matters to existing citizens .. do we know how mmany are affected?
Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
Trebor Warcliffe: One
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Trebor Warcliffe: that im aware of
Trebor Warcliffe: Done
Anna Toussaint: that is Kellie, no?
Soro Dagostino: Would that be Mary?
Trebor Warcliffe: I thought it would be Satir
Rosie Gray: lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Isnt she a “sponsor”
Patroklus Murakami: i’m only aware of one citizen being affected. i sent out a group notice to check and only one person responded (who is okay in any case)
Anna Toussaint: it was Kellie being on the lists last time that raised such a stink from CLEO
Sudane Erato: raise hand point of info
Soro Dagostino: It impacts my Partner.
Anna Toussaint: Sudane?
Patroklus Murakami: yes soro
Soro Dagostino: She is denied citizenship
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand to respond to Soro’s statement
Shep Titian: How does she feel about it Soro?
Sudane Erato: the citizenship right now of Kellie and Mary… if they want it..
Soro Dagostino: A violation of California Law.l
Anna Toussaint: So is Kellie, who is my partner
Sudane Erato: is conveyed by being partners on the Hippo box
Rosie Gray: California has nothing to do with us
Sudane Erato: the citizenship of Satir
Anna Toussaint: she does not care
Soro Dagostino: Yes it does.

Pip Torok was about to say the same thing!
Soro Dagostino: I will show it does.
Sudane Erato: to my knowledge… there is no hippo box for her
Anna Toussaint: order!
Trebor Warcliffe: Raises Hand
Sudane Erato: so she has not contributed tier since the system change
Anna Toussaint: so, there are two that are affected?
Sudane Erato: done
Anna Toussaint: Soro’s partner and mine?
Trebor Warcliffe: no
Patroklus Murakami: it would seem so anna
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Trebor?
Anna Toussaint: who else?
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
Trebor Warcliffe: The only one I see affected by it would be Satir. Both Kellie and Mary can have land deeded to them because their partenrs own more than one parcel. Anna owns 2 and Soro owns 3.
Callipygian Christensen quietly reiterates – someting done for one or two now, may be a precedent for something done for 20 down the road . Discoutn a 512 to 1l per sq metere, drop the civil service thing and done
Trebor Warcliffe: A single prim parcel is only 1.5L per sqm whcih Im sure Satir could afford if she wants to remain with us
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Rosie Gray: in the cases of Anna and Soro they could both sell their partners a parcel
Rosie Gray: at whatever price they want
Trebor Warcliffe: Exactly Rosie
Soro Dagostino: Not so.
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes so
Rosie Gray: why not?
Sudane Erato: why not?
Soro Dagostino: the parcels are for prim
Soro Dagostino: non-transferrable.
Rosie Gray: no they aren’t
Pip Torok wonders if Pats motion will get a seconder
Fern Leissa: Oh no…. we drove Anna away
Rosie Gray: at least I know Anna has 2 that aren’t
Patroklus Murakami: there’s lots of yellow on the map if ppl want to remain citizens….
Rosie Gray: anyway, this is beside the point
Trebor Warcliffe: They can be owned by two different people and share prims by deeding them to a group where both are memebrs. The Hippo system ONLY recognizes individualsm, not groups.
Soro Dagostino: It isn’t you are forcing a citizen to pay to remain a citzen
Patroklus Murakami: yes. we all have to pay to remain citizens!
Rosie Gray: no, it is that we are forcing everyone to the same responsibilities as everyone else to remain a citizen
Trebor Warcliffe: No we’re not. Give her title to one of your 3 parcels
Trebor Warcliffe: And yes Pat is correct we all pay to remain citizens
Soro Dagostino: Poll tax.
Callipygian Christensen: I didnt realize Mary had become a citizen – will have to congratulate her
Patroklus Murakami: can i just point out that this has been debated since november. why are objections being raised now at the 11th hour?
Trebor Warcliffe: I never even heard of her until the other night myself
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Trebor Warcliffe: Pat because people dont want to be bothered until its something they’re not happy about.
Patroklus Murakami: oh dear, did we lose anna?
Rosie Gray: wb Anna
Shep Titian: wb
Anna Toussaint: sorry ;bout that
Patroklus Murakami looks for a second….
Shep Titian: I second
Soro Dagostino — this is Mary
Anna Toussaint: ok, was there an amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: hi Mary
Sudane Erato: hi Mary
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Shep Titian: Hello Mary
Pip Torok: hi Mary
Soro Dagostino: The person whose rights you are taking.
Rosie Gray: hi Mary
MaryElizabethbc1 Resident: Good morning all
Rosie Gray: nonsense, Soro
Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Mary
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Mary
Fern Leissa: Hi Mary
Anna Toussaint: glad you are here
MaryElizabethbc1 Resident: thank you for letting me listen
Alexia Carnell: Hi Mary welcome
Anna Toussaint: I have an alternate proposal
Anna Toussaint: these are open meetings, Mary
Soro Dagostino May I speak to that issue?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: let me make my proposeal, however
Soro Dagostino: Yield/.
Anna Toussaint: then you’re on
Anna Toussaint: I propose that we simply grandfather them in
Trebor Warcliffe: who are “them”
Anna Toussaint: in some fashion
Rosie Gray: with the purchase of some land?
Anna Toussaint: those whose citizenship is being ntaken
Rosie Gray: or transfer of title from their partners?
Patroklus Murakami: that’s what the original proposal does by giving them a plot of land!
Anna Toussaint: if you like, Rosie
Anna Toussaint: or we can just keep them citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: there are 3 people this could POSSIBLY affect
Anna Toussaint: there are only 2
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: 3
Trebor Warcliffe: kellie, Mary, and Satir
Anna Toussaint: there ya go
Anna Toussaint: Kellie doesn’t want to buy land
Patroklus Murakami: then we have another category of citizens to add to the list. the point was to make things simpler and more transparent
Trebor Warcliffe: both kellie and Mary can have land titled to them by their partner
Anna Toussaint: yes, that is so
Shep Titian: OFGS!
Trebor Warcliffe: If kelli doesnt want to be a landowner than she remains youur partner but is not a citizen
Trebor Warcliffe: for voting purposes
Trebor Warcliffe: no big deal
Rosie Gray: that’s correct
Soro Dagostino raises hand.
Anna Toussaint: she doesn’t care, but Mary might
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Trebor Warcliffe: I will remain quiet while Soro speaks.
Soro Dagostino: This group is a body under the tors of LL.
Soro Dagostino: LL is a California corporation, and subject to that state’s laws.
Alexia Carnell: Omg
Soro Dagostino: Which include Domestice rights to marital partnerships and married couples.
Shep Titian: Forgive me .. but when I wanted to be a citizen I had to buy land .. in the interests of clarity it should be the same for everyone
Rosie Gray snorts
Sudane Erato: lol…
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Called community property
Sudane Erato: thats ridiculous
Rosie Gray: that is ridiculous
Soro Dagostino: Mary contributed to the cost of purchase of the land.
Trebor Warcliffe: Good than you need to deed to her one of those parcels
Callipygian Christensen: Soro, then refund her that money so that she can purchase her own
Trebor Warcliffe: since its you that is at fault not us
Pip Torok objects to being beholden to CAL’s local laws and will not be bound by them
Soro Dagostino: It is the law.
Anna Toussaint: Order
Sudane Erato: haha Pip!…
Shep Titian: Rubbish
Rosie Gray: this is a virtual world and a virtual democracy that has nothing to do with California
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, that was our regulations when she signed on
Shep Titian: I’m a British citizen
Trebor Warcliffe: EXACTLY
Rosie Gray: I’m a Canadian citizen
Alexia Carnell: Italy here
Trebor Warcliffe: and a PRIVATE ESTATE within SL
Rosie Gray: indeed
Sudane Erato: New York!
Patroklus Murakami coughs
Trebor Warcliffe: The country of Florida here
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand and waves
Rosie Gray: lol
Soro Dagostino: Its California property.
Anna Toussaint: we are a virtual melting pot
Anna Toussaint: ORDER!
Rosie Gray: it’s irrelevant though, Soro
Shep Titian: No it is’nt
Anna Toussaint: are you finished Soro?
Pip Torok: it is NOT _property_ of the _State_ of California
Soro Dagostino: For the moment.
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: Sudane, how much of a hardship would it be
Anna Toussaint: to grandfather those folks in as citizens?
Sudane Erato: well
Anna Toussaint: I ask this as purely informational
Alexia Carnell: Do i need a green card?
Rosie Gray: lol
Anna Toussaint:
Sudane Erato: it would an exception to what would otherwise be a mechanical system
Sudane Erato: and
Callipygian Christensen: You can’t grandfather citizenship since it must be maintained by owning a parcel and paying tier on it
Sudane Erato: the object of this excercize is to remove the human element
Callipygian Christensen: at best, as Pat said, you can give a free ride intothe ownership aspect
Sudane Erato: to avoid the experience of the last election
Pip Torok wd like to know the precedence from which Soro derives this absurd notion
Sudane Erato: done
Anna Toussaint: quiet in the peanut gallery, Pip
Pip Torok: (ok, Maam:)
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand some more
Patroklus Murakami: may I?
Anna Toussaint: ok, so could this be avoided by Soro deeding one of the parcels to Mary?
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami looks for his ‘raises hand’ animation
Trebor Warcliffe: Calli’s arm must be sore as she has been raising it for a while
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: first, Calli, then PAt
Anna Toussaint:
Callipygian Christensen: I want to clarify if Sorois arguing against the whole bill or just the ‘you must purchase a parcel’ part
Soro Dagostino raises hand.
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Callipygian Christensen: since the ‘must purchase’ is waht was in general discussion at the time he spoke, I am not sure
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: as it stands, it is NOT in the proposed legislation
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Soro Dagostino: My objection is to the part where you force a citizen to pay additional — Item 6
Soro Dagostino: 6. Citizenship derived solely through membership of a group or through being the partner of a CDS citizen is hereby abolished.
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Soro
Soro Dagostino: And only that as to partnership.
Anna Toussaint: pat was next ….
Callipygian Christensen: So it has nothing to do with whether Mary receives a parcel free or has to pay for it..so perhaps that should be where the discussion focueses
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Callipygian Christensen: one or the other issue at a time..done
Anna Toussaint: ah, you’re not done Calli … sorry
Patroklus Murakami: well, article 6 is the whole point of the legislation
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: which was discussed at two commission meetings inworld
Patroklus Murakami: and on the forums since november
Patroklus Murakami: and where the consensus was that all these categories needed to go
Patroklus Murakami: because without reform our citizenship rules are simply unworkable
Patroklus Murakami: and lead to the kind of mess we had at the last elections
Patroklus Murakami: and we are now up against it folks
Anna Toussaint: Yes. Let us not forget that this is the work of a commission, which was free and open to attend
Patroklus Murakami: if we don’t get this done now we will be into the deadlines for nomination
Patroklus Murakami: for the next elections
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Rosie Gray: there has been plenty of time
Patroklus Murakami: it is galling that soro chooses to bring this up at the last minute
Pip Torok agrees
Patroklus Murakami: when there has been plenty of opportunity to propose alternatives sooner
Patroklus Murakami: and raise objections
Patroklus Murakami: done
Anna Toussaint: are you done, Pat?
Anna Toussaint: rthanks
Anna Toussaint: soro?
Soro Dagostino: Is it now a rule a citizen cannot bring up issues to the RA?
Anna Toussaint: no
Pip Torok (thinks : this is an argument? )
Patroklus Murakami: i call the vote on my amendment
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: All in favor of ending discussion, say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: shall i restate the amendment?
Rosie Gray: please
Anna Toussaint: yes, please
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of Pat’s amendment, say “aye”
Trebor Warcliffe: “encouraged to obtain a parcel of land”
Rosie Gray: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes “aye”
Anna Toussaint: amendment carries
Rosie Gray: ???????..? Applauds! ? ..???????..
Anna Toussaint: now, the first motion is still on the floor
Pip Torok claps…
Anna Toussaint: any further discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: i move we vote
Shep Titian: Second
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of ending discussion say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of proposal #1 as amended, say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: all opposed say “nay”
Anna Toussaint: the “ayes” have it
Anna Toussaint: motion passed
Patroklus Murakami: did rosie vote?
Pip Torok applauds
Anna Toussaint: she did not
Shep Titian: no
Rosie Gray: no I didn’t
Rosie Gray: but aye
Rosie Gray: sorry had to step away for a second
Anna Toussaint: it is her privilege not to vote
Anna Toussaint: record that the vote is 4 ayes, then
Patroklus Murakami: i move bill #2
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Rosie Gray: secodn
Rosie Gray: second… even
Shep Titian:
Anna Toussaint: ok, any discussion?
Trebor Warcliffe: this peanut has no issues with Bill#2
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: and a very fine peanut you are, too
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Patroklus Murakami: thx to calli and sudane for improving the drafting of this one
Sudane Erato: the 12 noon should specify the time zone…
Sudane Erato: and yw
Rosie Gray: good point about the time zone
Patroklus Murakami: amend to say “PDT”? does that work?
Anna Toussaint: I offer a friendly amendment so that it is PDT
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: accepted
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any other discussion?
Soro Dagostino: You may want to use SLT
Trebor Warcliffe: I agree
Trebor Warcliffe: with Soro
Anna Toussaint: we could … SLT then?
Rosie Gray: yes SLT is better
Anna Toussaint: kk
Anna Toussaint: it has been amended in a friendly-like fashion
Patroklus Murakami: okay, whatever works
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of Proposal #2 say “aye”
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: shep?
Shep Titian: Aye
Shep Titian: sorry
Anna Toussaint: motion carried
Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
Rosie Gray: yay
Patroklus Murakami: at long last!
Anna Toussaint: now … one more order of business
Patroklus Murakami claps
Rosie Gray: nice work Pat ?
Fern Leissa: clap clap calp
Anna Toussaint: I need a motion that we dismiss the commission with thanks
Rosie Gray: so moved
Pip Torok applauds
Trebor Warcliffe: QUESTION
Sudane Erato: ty Pat!
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: Good work Pat
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: ok … Trebor?
Trebor Warcliffe: nothing I didnt scroll down far enough
Trebor Warcliffe: sorry
Anna Toussaint: k
Patroklus Murakami: ty folks
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of the motion to dismiss the commission with our thanks, say aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Trebor Warcliffe: ty Pat Sudane Calli Gwynn and everyone who contributed to the discussions
Shep Titian: Aye
Patroklus Murakami abstains
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: motion carried
Anna Toussaint: thank you Pat and everybody involved for fine work
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Anna Toussaint: sudane?
Sudane Erato: i’d just like to say
Sudane Erato: that in all my years here
Sudane Erato: this is the first time we’ve had an administratable voter qualification procedure
Sudane Erato: ty!!
Sudane Erato: done
Rosie Gray:
Patroklus Murakami:
Anna Toussaint: yayyyy!
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any commission reports”?
Pip Torok feels good as well as more “legitimate” …
Patroklus Murakami: none
Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie what is the status of the Expansion Commission?
Anna Toussaint: we have one other commission …
Rosie Gray: as you ask
Rosie Gray: the last RA meeting, that I was unable to attend
Rosie Gray: seems to have steamed over that commission
Rosie Gray: so I have not done anything further
Trebor Warcliffe: Could the RA than fill us in on the status please?
Rosie Gray: I’d like to know if there is a desire of the RA for any further procedure from the commission, or if it is effectively ended
Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3757
Anna Toussaint: well?
Rosie Gray: thank you Pat
Shep Titian: I think the concensus was pretty clear Rosie
Patroklus Murakami: apologies rosie. i should have added in the summary the vote of thanks from teh RA for your work on the commission
Trebor Warcliffe: So nothing has been done since the RA in regards to this
Shep Titian: I can’t see it changing tbh
Patroklus Murakami: but i dont believe we formally wound it up
Rosie Gray: and so it should be
Shep Titian: no we did’nt
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, as per a private discussion last week, you were going to provide me with the economic workup so we could figure out the nuber of public parcels to private
Anna Toussaint: perhaps I missed it?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I can have that done by tonight if needed
Patroklus Murakami: we need to do some publicity regarding the competition though. or we won’t get many entries by the 31 march deadline
Anna Toussaint: so we could write an acceptable RFP
Anna Toussaint: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: There are two dates the 17th and the 31st
Anna Toussaint: it might be we have to slip the deadline back two weeks
Patroklus Murakami: we set 31st

Anna Toussaint: the one we approved was the 31st, Treb
Trebor Warcliffe: ok
Anna Toussaint: I was under the impression that the commission would oversee these things
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, it was confusing in the way i posted it
Anna Toussaint: the call for designs, the putting togbether of an RFP
Anna Toussaint: because we have no NG
Patroklus Murakami: that would be a good way forward anna
Anna Toussaint: was I mistaken?
Rosie Gray: that’s true Anna
Anna Toussaint: so … I will get the specs from Trebor
Anna Toussaint: or he can pass them to you\
Rosie Gray: okay
Anna Toussaint: and I, and anyone who wants, can help with the RFP
Trebor Warcliffe: Qucik question for all in attendance
Trebor Warcliffe: May I?
Rosie Gray: yes that would be appreciated
Anna Toussaint: Rosie and I will get a draft and put it on the forumn
Anna Toussaint: Treb>
Anna Toussaint: Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: In doing my calculations previously
Trebor Warcliffe: as you all know currently we have varied fees to LL
Trebor Warcliffe: 195
Trebor Warcliffe: 195
Trebor Warcliffe: 295
Trebor Warcliffe: 295
Anna Toussaint: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: 90
Trebor Warcliffe: Currently except for MON
Trebor Warcliffe: I have all single prim land at US$ 3.25 per 512sqm
Trebor Warcliffe: and all double prim land at $6.50 per 512 sqm
Anna Toussaint: its getting down to the 2 hour limit, treb
Anna Toussaint: what’s your point?
Trebor Warcliffe: IF you would like me to continue to have all single prim land remain the same price and double prim land to be the same price
Anna Toussaint: I have no objections
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d need to bump it by 25 cents and 50 cents
Trebor Warcliffe: respectivly
Anna Toussaint: to do what?
Anna Toussaint: to make it come out profitable?
Trebor Warcliffe: so SP would than be $3.50 and DP would be $7.00 per 512sqm
Anna Toussaint: any objections?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure i follow. bump the price of which land? in the new sim?
Trebor Warcliffe: No to keep it uniform through ALL sims whether its 5 or 50
Trebor Warcliffe: ALL LAND except MON
Trebor Warcliffe: that way
Rosie Gray: I don’t think it’s necessary to change what we already have
Trebor Warcliffe: new land and old lands will be hte same price
Rosie Gray: unless I’m missing the point some how
Trebor Warcliffe: this way all of our land whther its the original 5 or new ones
Sudane Erato: Trebor, i suggest you write out an explanation and post it
Trebor Warcliffe: will be the same price across the board
Sudane Erato: this is too complicated
Trebor Warcliffe: LOL
Trebor Warcliffe: ok’
Anna Toussaint: thank you Sudane
Pip Torok agrees with Sudane
Trebor Warcliffe: I can punch it through my spreadsheet
Trebor Warcliffe: to show everyone what I mean
Anna Toussaint: do you have a quick report, Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: fair enough
Fern Leissa: Is this because the ratio of higher priced sims to lower priced will increase?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Fern
Sudane Erato: Fern, yes
Trebor Warcliffe: also with new sims
Trebor Warcliffe: we have to do our city plannign more effectively
Trebor Warcliffe: in regards to private and public lands
Anna Toussaint: let’s take Sudane’s suggestion and take it to the forums, people
Trebor Warcliffe: Ill have it all calculated by tonight
Anna Toussaint: do you have a report, Treb?
Patroklus Murakami: thx trebor
Shep Titian: Is’nt tier the same for old and new?
Trebor Warcliffe: Ive worked on it previously so I have an idea of where I need to be
Trebor Warcliffe: Shep no
Anna Toussaint: good
Anna Toussaint: let’s not tackle pricing today
Trebor Warcliffe: we have 2 sims that are only 195 currently
Trebor Warcliffe: ok
Trebor Warcliffe: no pronblem
Trebor Warcliffe: im DONE
Anna Toussaint: do you have a report, Treb
Shep Titian: ok
Trebor Warcliffe: Oh
Anna Toussaint:
Trebor Warcliffe: You mean a Chancellors report?
Trebor Warcliffe: LOL
Anna Toussaint: yes
Sudane Erato: lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Got me going on numbers and I get all excited LOL
Anna Toussaint:
Trebor Warcliffe: A very brief one
Sudane Erato: (thats why i love this man)
Anna Toussaint: that’s the kind I like
Rosie Gray: he’s a wonder
Rosie Gray: ?
Trebor Warcliffe: Lillith and Rosie have been planting new trees on all publically owned land
Trebor Warcliffe: we now have 7 Seas Fishing Game on the docks just outside this building
Trebor Warcliffe: We are coshosting 2 events with New Toulouse for Relay For Life
Trebor Warcliffe: And we are working on a new book for the CDS
Trebor Warcliffe: I think thats it for now
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Trebor Warcliffe: yw
Patroklus Murakami: excellent! ty
Trebor Warcliffe: oh
Anna Toussaint: any general announcements?
Trebor Warcliffe: We made it into the Best of SL magazine
Trebor Warcliffe: the opening of MoCA on Jan 29th
Anna Toussaint: cool!
Trebor Warcliffe: great little write up
Trebor Warcliffe: and we’re workign on getting the CDS into the Destination Guide
Trebor Warcliffe: now im done
Anna Toussaint: I suggest that we meet again on March 31 at the same time, same place
Anna Toussaint: anybody have an objection?
Trebor Warcliffe: same bat time same bat channel same bat cave
Patroklus Murakami: ok with me
Anna Toussaint: indeed
Shep Titian: Ok with me
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
Rosie Gray: yes okay with me…
Trebor Warcliffe: wake up Rosie
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, say aye?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Anna Toussaint: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 14 April 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of April 14, 2012

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business
— Discussion and review of Sim design proposals
– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:

1. The RA agreed that new sim proposals should be published on the forums and distributed by notecard with discussion to continue on the forums.

Ayes – Beathan, Patroklus, Shep. Anna and Rosie have 7-days to cast their votes.

2. The RA asked the SC to rule on whether people who own land with a group title (and have not switched it to individual) should be allowed to vote in the coming elections. (The SC has agreed to discuss this at its meeting on 15 April).

Ayes – Beathan, Patroklus, Shep. Anna and Rose have 7-day votes.

3. The RA agreed to meet again at 9am SLT on Saturday 28 April in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

Shep Titian: Ok well w have a quorum … shall we begin
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes lets
Shep Titian: Have you all got a copy of the agenda
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll look at the forum post. the notecard giver has an old card in it
Shep Titian: Good .. oh Daniel it should be said as you are new .. by participating here ,.. you automatically agree for your words to put on the forum
Daniel Sosa: I agree
Shep Titian: All aprove the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami fails to find an agenda anywhere…
Beathan Vale: The notecard I got says “April 14”
Shep Titian: I say aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Thats today’s date Beathan
Beathan Vale: yes, but it is giving old legislation — and I don’t know who has the sim proposal reports.
Patroklus Murakami: thx daniel. yes, approve the agenda
Shep Titian: bli hat’s Anna
Shep Titian: elieve
Shep Titian: Sorry having trouble here
Beathan Vale: OK — well it’s later in the agenda. hopefully she will be here by then
Shep Titian: Yes
Beathan Vale: I move we put off speakers on the sims until we have the proposals
Shep Titian: I’m assuming Anna will be the speaker too
Shep Titian: Ok Citizens concerns
Shep Titian: Right … RA members concerns?
Daniel Sosa: I do not have any at this time but if the discussion that we wer having prior to the start of the meeting was to come up I would have a concnern
Patroklus Murakami: none
Daniel Sosa: about that being a private meeting
Shep Titian: ou can comment on that
Daniel Sosa: It was not in the meeting so would not make sense in the mintues
Shep Titian: Yes it would .. under citizens concerns
Beathan Vale: I have heard from one longtime citizen who missed paying her tier by one day (I think the candidacy tier — not the voting tier); and have heard hearsay reports of a couple others. I just note that as a possible concern under our new voting timing procedures and that we may want to implement grace periods, although I am not sure that we should act on that now before we give the current rules a chance to work.
Beathan Vale: Hi Fern
Fern Leissa: Hi Beathan 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: people were warned beathan. if they were not current in tier… tough
Shep Titian: This is so near the election Beathan .. any grace time will give rise to a similar fiasco as last time I would have thought
Beathan Vale: Due to sparse attendance, I move that we give late-arriving citizens a chance to express concerns if they have any
Shep Titian: I agree
Beathan Vale: I agree — but it is something to note and consider next term if we find it is a real probleem
Shep Titian: Hello Fern
Fern Leissa: No immediate questions from me tx
Fern Leissa: Hi Shep 🙂
Beathan Vale: I don’t want to change the rules this close to the election
Patroklus Murakami: happy to be lenient about people who did not switch their land from group in time
Beathan Vale: agree
Shep Titian: Yes I’d go aLONG WITH THAT
Shep Titian: sorry again
Patroklus Murakami: i sent group notices to warn people to pay tier for both nomination qualification and voting
Shep Titian: Do we have any old business?
Shep Titian: Yes I saw those Pat .. thankls for doing it
Beathan Vale: I know — that was good and I thought it would be effective … but some people may have missed it — and I hate to see people lose voting rights on technicalities
Shep Titian: As you know Beathan .. huge giant can of worms lol
Patroklus Murakami: either we have rules. or we don’t. i think we agree that we don’t want to change them this close to an electio. i agree we should think about the impact for future elections
Daniel Sosa: May I speak
Shep Titian: If we are lax this time .. the same thing will happen again
Shep Titian: Please do Daniel
Daniel Sosa: I would recommend that the RA find out how many citizens were unable to vote based on the rule
Daniel Sosa: and if it is a large percentage then that would be a reason to discuss and change the rule
Beathan Vale: Daniel — I’m not sure that there are any — I’ve looked at the list — I think a couple people may have missed the second deadline (candidacy) — but this might not be a huge deal, although we might not have enough candidates and might lose at least one person who otherwise would have run …
Daniel Sosa: however I would not know what that percentage would be
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t go along with that daniel. if people failed to keep their tier current on one parcel they don’t qualify as a citizen
Shep Titian: We had utter confusion and cries of fixing at the last election
Daniel Sosa: if voiting and peopple wanting to be involved in the demoacracy and the rules are preventing good people to participate then the rules definitely sholuld be reviewed
Beathan Vale: I do think that the process was far more transparent under the new rules — and that was a great improvement — and a significant effort (by Sudane especially) which we should note with gratitude
Shep Titian: Hence we changed the rules to be more transparent
Patroklus Murakami: if people were ignorant of the rule change it’s largely their fault. there was a debate about this for months. multiple forumthreads, inworld meetings and several group notices
Shep Titian: The rules are preventing no one from taking part who is’nt up to date on tier payments
Daniel Sosa: I stand corrected
Shep Titian: Ok .. new business
Shep Titian: From where I’m sitting the rest of this agenda is unworkable
Beathan Vale: so it seems
Patroklus Murakami: do we know how many sim design proposals there are? i’ve only seen one from beathan
Shep Titian: How are we feeling on aborting?
Beathan Vale: I move that sim proposals be published on the forums and by notecard distrubution and that we discuss them on the RA forums, allowing public input on the general forum
Shep Titian: As far as I know Anna has been working on the criteria for tender
Shep Titian: ]I second Beathan
Shep Titian: Vote please
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: Good then that part is official;ly moved to forum
Shep Titian: Seems we have no exec to report either
Shep Titian: Ok .. next meeting date
Patroklus Murakami: can we discuss the group citizens issue before we adjourn?
Beathan Vale: When is the official date for sim consideration? the 28th?
Shep Titian: 28th April at 9 am??
Beathan Vale: yes and yes
Patroklus Murakami: i’m fine with that date and time
Shep Titian: good .. lets hope that will be better attended
Fern Leissa: 🙂
Shep Titian: So datew and time set at 9 am on 28th April
Patroklus Murakami: i move we ask the SC to rule on whether people who own land with a group title (and have not switched it to individual) should be allowed to vote in teh coming elections
Beathan Vale: second
Shep Titian: I think we should adjourn .. but make ourselves available for questions from the floor
Shep Titian: So ayes for adjourn and date
Shep Titian: Aye
Beathan Vale: let’s vote on Pat’s motion first
Patroklus Murakami: aye. i’ll let soro know about our request for a ruling
Shep Titian: Sorry
Beathan Vale: aye and aye
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i thought we had!
Patroklus Murakami: but… aye and aye!
Shep Titian: An aye for your propsal anyway Pat 🙂
Shep Titian: Ok troops /.. done

Permalink.

RA Meeting 28 April 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of April 28th. 2012

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business
— Proposals …….
– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:

1. The RA voted to amend the Constitution to set the size of the Representative Assembly at five seats.

Ayes – Beathan, Patroklus, Shep, Rosie. Anna has seven days to cast her vote.

2. The RA discussed reforming the Scientific Council and agreed to continue the discussion on these forums.

3. The RA voted on a proposal to repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act

Ayes – Patroklus, Shep. Nayes – Beathan. Rosie and Anna have 7-day votes (these will determine the outcome).

4. The RA agreed to meet again on Saturday 12 May at 9am SLT in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

Shep Titian: Ok .. do we all have the agenda .. weell its skeleton?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Rosie Gray: no
Rosie Gray: is it in the box?
Shep Titian: it the box Rosie .. but I did’nt clear the old stuff
Shep Titian: Well I don’t think we need 5 mins to approve it
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to add an item to the agenda
Shep Titian: go ahead Pat
Patroklus Murakami: repeal of CDSL 13-7 Term LImits Act
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Shep Titian: So added
Shep Titian: Anyone other than Pat have something to speak on?
Rosie Gray: not at themoment
Shep Titian: ok .. Next … citizens concerns?
Shep Titian: Ok … RA members concerns?
Patroklus Murakami: none here 🙂
Rosie Gray: not from me
Beathan Vale: not today
Shep Titian: ok … any old business we have to deal with?
Shep Titian: Alright .. well next .. New business .. Pat .. all yours 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend the Constitution to set the size of the RA at five members
Shep Titian: I’ll second that .. and we have 4 members .. so we can pass this today
Rosie Gray: I second that motion
Shep Titian: well Beathan .. you’re opinion?
Shep Titian: Lol * your
Beathan Vale: I don’t like the frequency with with we amend the Constitution and I would rather have a larger RA or an RA that grows with the population. I think that we should either set the RA at 7 or 9, or set the base at 5 and the largest size at 41 and then just change the trigger population to require a more population growth for RA growth than we currently have in the Con.
Beathan Vale: However, we have 6 declared candidates, I think —
Beathan Vale: So — that is a concern
Shep Titian: No we have 4
Beathan Vale: OK — even worse
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, would you agree that 10% is too high a figure?
Beathan Vale: So — for now, and with the stipulation that I consider this a temporary fix — I am inclined tto support the rule
Beathan Vale: Pat — yes — I would say 5 + 5% or even 2% —
Shep Titian: Ok well I think we can vote on this now
Delia Lake: /raises her hand
Shep Titian: I vote aye
Shep Titian: Delia?
Delia Lake: if I might ask, and I”m not for or agains t this proposal, what is the purpose of trying to limit the number of RA?
Patroklus Murakami: when you are ready shep, would you like me to state the question clearly? i.e. state how the constitution will be amended?
Beathan Vale: For me — the purpose is to avoid electoral fatigue and to help insure we have contested elections — if the RA is so big that it takes all comers, we don’t have a democracy, but rely entirely on self-selection
Shep Titian: I see it as a case of the previous expectations being too high Delia
Rosie Gray: I agree with both of those statements
Shep Titian: Not 10% in RL are part of government
Beathan Vale: I for one would like to see whether people would support me in a contested election based on my platform — otherwise I have trouble assessing whether my platform is desirable or not
Shep Titian: o0k Pat if you would please
Patroklus Murakami: okay
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend article 1 section 2 of the constitution so that instead of “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats.” it reads “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to five”
Shep Titian: Hmmm one point .. why leave the word equal in there?
Trebor Warcliffe: /raises hand
Rosie Gray: clarity I would think
Shep Titian: Trebor
Patroklus Murakami: history 🙂 it retains some of the language of the original drafting
Trebor Warcliffe: Are we going to limit it to 5 no matter how large the population grows? I like Beathans idea of lowering the amount after 5. Maybe 1 seat per an additional 25 citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: Thats basically 4%
Trebor Warcliffe: Done
Patroklus Murakami: yes trebor, that’s my proposal
Shep Titian: I think we need to grow first .. then address it
Beathan Vale: Trebor, I agree, but the RA can always reassess this each term
Shep Titian: Okay .. now a vote 🙂
Trebor Warcliffe: Better to address it now so it doesnt become an issue in the future
Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
Trebor Warcliffe: And I dont see that wording in Pat’s proposal
Shep Titian: No Trebor that just confuses things
Rosie Gray: I vote Aye
Shep Titian: I vote aye
Beathan Vale: Trebor, based on our past, I think this will always be an issue in the future — the proposal would set the RA to 5, no more, no less, regardless of population
Beathan Vale: Reluctantly and noting that future RAs can, should, and doubtless will revisit this issue when circumstances change, I vote aye
Rosie Gray: ?
Trebor Warcliffe: I agree it could be brought back up for debate as the population grows. Seems like some laws change on a term by term basis anyhow.
Shep Titian: Thank you .. 4 out of four ayes .. Anna shouild have 7 day .. but the motion is carried
Shep Titian: well done Pat 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: yay!
Rosie Gray: I’ve heard that Anna’s hard drive has died, and she likely won’t be able to get into SL for a while
Shep Titian: Now Pat I believe your reforming spirit continues?
Shep Titian: Awww poor girl
Patroklus Murakami: yes. constitutional reform day here!
Patroklus Murakami: sorry to hear that rosie 🙁
Beathan Vale: Hi Ranma — welcome back
Rosie Gray: hi Ranma
Shep Titian: Hi Ranma
Ranma Tardis: hello
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we discuss reforming the SC. (if there is appetite to do so, i’ll bring proposals to the next meeting)
Trebor Warcliffe: Hello Ranma glad you could join us.
Patroklus Murakami: ranma! long time 🙂
Ranma Tardis: yes, sory I am late
Beathan Vale: ::nod:: I’m not prepared to support the current proposal — so that is a good process
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Shep Titian: Ok so what are your pricipal objects Beathan?
Beathan Vale: I don’t want to limit the SC to 3 or remove the dispute resolution function — at least not without replacing that function through some other institution. I think we need to have a vehicle for resolving problems with due process and known and fair rules. I don’t need the SC to do that as long as it gets done.
Patroklus Murakami: we could discuss around that beathan
Patroklus Murakami: i[m not fixated on limiting the SC to three (tho i have my reasons)
Delia Lake strongly objects to the RA uniformly reforming another independent branch of government without the participation of the SC. And particularly strongly objects as there is a working committee on SC reform right now, committee being Pat, Beathan, Delia and Calli, and we have not issued findings yet!
Patroklus Murakami: my main problem is with the SC as a ‘self-selecting meritocracy’
Patroklus Murakami: and the way they are able to sneak people on without RA approval (as with soro)
Delia Lake also objects to the assessment of “sneaking” which was most certainly NOT the case!
Patroklus Murakami: delia, there’s a proposal on the table. the RA can debate this
Rosie Gray raises a wing
Beathan Vale: I would certainly support that aspect of the reform. Requiring that all SC members be approved by the RA through formal action before taking a seat
Shep Titian: Rosie
Beathan Vale: That would include current RA members — no getting on through RA inaction
Trebor Warcliffe: Wasnt that a case of the RA dropping the ball and not holding a meeting in reference to 30 days or something like that.
Rosie Gray: I’m just wondering if Pat could expand on what happened when Soro came onto the SC
Beathan Vale: I mean current SC members
Rosie Gray: ahem, I have the floor
Trebor Warcliffe: sorry
Rosie Gray: can you explain Pat?
Shep Titian: Smacks Trebors wrist
Patroklus Murakami: look, perspectives will differ here
Delia Lake: @ Trebor, it most certainly was the RA dropping the ball there
Patroklus Murakami: from my point of view, the sC approved soro at a time in between an old RA leaving and a new one starting
Patroklus Murakami: the RA failed to meet within 30 days to approve/disapprove
Patroklus Murakami: so soro went through without RA oversight
Delia Lake raises her hand again!
Shep Titian: Delia
Delia Lake: Pat that is simply not true.
Patroklus Murakami: i think thats pretty sneaky. RAs often fail to meet at the end of their term
Delia Lake: the RA did hold a meeting but didn’t have a quorum, and in fact although notified of Soro’s nomination did not even put his affirmation on the agenda for that meeting. it’s in the transcript of that RA meeting
Beathan Vale: Pat — I agree. I would simply remove the 30-day automatic membership period — that would put the burden on the SC to get its membes approved rather on the RA to closely scrutinize the dealings of the SC
Shep Titian: Could we say a new member is on probation until RA has had a chance to meet?
Beathan Vale: That wuold help both insitutions
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Shep Titian: Trebor
Delia Lake: without the 30 day rule, the RA could hold up affirmations ad infinitum, just as is happening in the US Congress today
Trebor Warcliffe: I agree with Delia’s statement jsut posted
Patroklus Murakami: okay, well we could just repeal CDSL 4-8
Beathan Vale: Shep — not unless we have a whole new set of rules distinguishign full members from probationary members
Trebor Warcliffe: 30 days is plenty of time
Trebor Warcliffe: the RA is elected for 6 months they should work for 6 months
Patroklus Murakami: sometimes it’s not trebor
Patroklus Murakami: as delia said, the RA tried to meet but could not achieve a quorum
Shep Titian: No Delia not if it is written that RA hAS to vote at the earliest meeting available
Rosie Gray: hi Calli
Patroklus Murakami: then it took time for the new RA to come in and the 30 days had passed
Beathan Vale: Delia, I think that is unlikely — and I also think that a person the SC would not approve, either by active disapproval or by a failure to support, should not be on the SC
Patroklus Murakami: open to abuse by the SC in my opinion
Delia Lake: it is not the problem of the SC that the RA doesn’t always arrange for quorums
Callipygian Christensen: good morning
Shep Titian: Its not always possible Delia
Shep Titian: Hi Calli 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi calli. hope you brought your knuckle dusters 🙂
Beathan Vale: Delia — yes it is — it is a problem for all of us. We are a democracy. Having the SC with its current rules at the center is a serious problem. You are making me inclined to just flat out support Pat’s proposal.
Delia Lake: just as the SC has a time limit on flagging legislationpassed by the RA for review, the RA should have a timelimit for matters regarding the SC
Callipygian Christensen: I seem to have missed the posting of this meeting and its agenda
Delia Lake: i cannot believe that within a 30 day period there is not a single 10 min time on which 5 people can agree to meet
Trebor Warcliffe: Agree Delia
Beathan Vale: Calli — unfortinately, like the last RA meeting, this one met on autopilot without a posting due to the LRA’s computer problems.
Patroklus Murakami: delia. this often happens at the end of the term . we enter a ‘lame duck’ period when we can’t get a quorum
Beathan Vale: I can’t beleive that the SC needs to have the automatic approval process rather thann accept a rather modest check by a democractic institution.
Callipygian Christensen: I see you are debating the continuing ‘how they snuck Soro in’ issue?
Trebor Warcliffe: The SC does not have an automatic approval process
Patroklus Murakami: i object to the SC appointing new members during this period. it means the elected body does not get to ratify them
Patroklus Murakami: we need to change that
Trebor Warcliffe: Sure they do all they have to do is call a meeting within 30 days
Beathan Vale: Yes it does — members are automatically approved if the RA does not act. That is an automatic process than can be halted, but still and automatic process
Trebor Warcliffe: IF the RA does not act
Patroklus Murakami: but we also need to change the way we make appointments. ‘self-selected meritocracy’ really has no place in a democracy
Trebor Warcliffe: Key Point
Shep Titian: That is true Pat
Beathan Vale: Pat, I agree
Delia Lake: the RA has an automatic process for legislation passed if the SC doesn’t flag a bill
Trebor Warcliffe: There are rules already in place that address the issue. The RA has 30 days to meet.
Callipygian Christensen: May I ask who is chairing the meeting?
Rosie Gray: Shep is
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Shep Titian: I’m meant to be
Trebor Warcliffe: Going to get my wrist smacked again
Shep Titian: You came close
Patroklus Murakami: we could make the limit 90 days. that would be *plenty* of time
Shep Titian: I would support that
Trebor Warcliffe: I wouldnt
Shep Titian: Trbor
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Beathan Vale: I really don’t like any time limit. If the RA does not support a candidate as demonstrated by approving them, they should be get on
Shep Titian: You don’t need to 🙂
Beathan Vale: should NOT get on I mean
Shep Titian: Yes but Beathan it can’t be left like that
Callipygian Christensen: Madam Chair – may I have the floor when it is my turn please?
Shep Titian: We can’t leave it that if we don’t say aye .. assume you’re off .. it needs a time limit
Beathan Vale: It can if we change the RA rules to have a specific section for SC business as we do for Exec business
Shep Titian: I’ll give Calli the floor
Shep Titian: Calli??
Callipygian Christensen: On Thursday I sent notecards to at, Beathan and Delia speaking to this issue and asking for a meeting (one madated by this RA) – I received no response from Beathan or Pat, so first I would like to ask if that means they do not wish to work together on a process of reform?
Callipygian Christensen: Pat, not ‘at’
Patroklus Murakami: if i may reply?
Beathan Vale: Calli — the process issues are my sticking point and why I am not currently supporting the proposal
Shep Titian: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to meet but it is difficul to find time for all four of us to do so. i’m simply putting this on the table for discussion. this was something i committed to doing at the last election
Patroklus Murakami: and i doubt we will find a consensus between the four of us given my understanding of our views
Shep Titian: Hmmmm there has to be a way to compromise
Beathan Vale: One more idea — one problem is that the RA should be able to meet with and question SC prospects before they join the SC; putting the full burden on the RA could allow a prospect to run the clock simply by not being available. If we have a 30 day process, it should run from the time the prospect present him or herself IN PERSON before the RA for questioning with regard to SC membership.
Shep Titian: Calli do you have any changes you’d be happy with
Callipygian Christensen: Pat, I thin you would be surised now much some areas of our views agree, however putting what you have forward conerns me as yet another ‘bandaid’ that fixes the surface but doesnt deal with what is underneath
Patroklus Murakami: i disagree. i think it’s a pretty clear, comprehensive reform. there are other issues around SC procedures which im less interested in. i see those as being for the SC to sort out
Callipygian Christensen: There is a history of that happening in a lot of areas – action A looks great, but the ramifications of it show up later..its happened in elections, in citizenship.its a large part of*why* the SC needs reform to fix previous ‘fixes’
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Beathan Vale: I think we need to figure out what the SC is and is for — right now it’s rather schizophrenic
Shep Titian: Delia
Patroklus Murakami: i agree beathan
Rosie Gray: I apologize folks but I have to go… rl meeting. I request a 7 day vote on any further motions.
Shep Titian: Ok thanks Rosie
Delia Lake: yes to Beathan’s point. a couple of years ago there was a push to institute a real life judiciary. that initiative failed, imo for some very good reasons. but in the aftermath the mess was not cleaned up but sections of it remained in the law and in the constitution and was assigned to the SC, changing part of the SC purview without much thougt on the matter, again imo
Delia Lake: this whole issue needs to be sorted out
Shep Titian: It does .. certainly won’t be sorted here and now
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should continue the discussion on the forums? my intention was to start a discussion with a clear proposal rather than vote on it now
Shep Titian: But I can sense some coming togethers
Beathan Vale: I admit being confused about what the SC could possibly be for if not to serve a judicial function
Shep Titian: Ok .. so is everyone happy to take it to forum?
Delia Lake: the hodge podge of functions and the SC constitutional structure do not match up right now
Callipygian Christensen: Pat (I have already expressed this to Beathan) I fully support a reform of the SC that identifies clearly and simply what it does and how it does it – but I want it to address all of those odds and ends of old legislation and process so that it isnt handicapped from the get go
Beathan Vale: otherwise it seems to have a theoretical, academic function rather than a governemental one — kind of a think tank — but if so, why is it in governemnt and the Constitution
Beathan Vale: and why does it need a formal mandate rather than just being a discussion group
Shep Titian: Ok I’m calling this one for now
Shep Titian: it needs adressing in a very detailed manner
Beathan Vale: I will put together some ideas and post on the forums — springboarding from my discussion with Calli —
Patroklus Murakami: great!
Beathan Vale: but I have different points of emphasis, so it will be different
Shep Titian: Good thanks Beathan
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan, I wuld love to address that question but we’d be here all day..I hope we get the chance to do so though.
Shep Titian: We would expect nothing less Beathan 🙂
Shep Titian: ok . I have a slightly contentious one
Shep Titian: Term lenths .. do we still need them?
Delia Lake: please lets have the discussion of purpose before structure
Beathan Vale: Delia, I agree with that
Beathan Vale: I don’t like term limits — but we don’t have enough active candidates
Shep Titian: That’s my point
Beathan Vale: But I think the wobbling between having them and not is problematic
Callipygian Christensen: and please can we all read some ofthe history as to the’wy’ of the SC
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan didnt you support term limits the last time it was approved?
Patroklus Murakami: if we are on to the next topic? i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
Beathan Vale: I mean I support term limits
Beathan Vale: I don’t support having the same people run again and again
Shep Titian: Rosie can’t stand for the next RA .. I’m not assuming she would want to .. but we are short falling as it is
Trebor Warcliffe: Neither do I but when its only the same people who choose to participate than what do you do?
Beathan Vale: But, we need candidates. Rather than constantly turn term limits on or off — I would suggest adding a period in which an otherwise term limited cnadidate can declare if there are insufficient candidates to have a contested election
Patroklus Murakami waits to hear a seconder…
Shep Titian: So you support no one .. rather than one who is willing but has sat already?
Beathan Vale: Say — the week following the ordinary candidate declaratioons
Trebor Warcliffe: More drama that’s not needed
Shep Titian: Sorry Pat .. second
Beathan Vale: Shep — no I think we need balance between leaving the door open but working to make sure the room is not emplty
Trebor Warcliffe: If you dont want teh same people running again and again than get more poeple involved
Beathan Vale: I don’t see how that would produce drama
Patroklus Murakami: i’m opposed to term limits full stop. they lead to what we have now – good ppl who are ineligible due to a short-sighted rule
Trebor Warcliffe: EXACTLY PAT
Patroklus Murakami: why can’t we just let ppl choose?
Trebor Warcliffe: YUP
Shep Titian: Trebor!
Patroklus Murakami: if the same old faces keep standing ppl can choose to vote or not vote for them?
Beathan Vale: well — I oppose full abolition of term limits, although I would approve a process to abrogate it in favor of contested elections if there is a shortage of candidates
Trebor Warcliffe: Correct, if youre not hapy with who is in officwe than get more people involved
Patroklus Murakami: that just sounds too complicated to me beathan. let’s keep it simple eh? 🙂
Beathan Vale: touchee
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Shep Titian: As with everything it can be changed l;ater
Trebor Warcliffe: Which gets rather redundant I might add. This term yes next term no.
Shep Titian: I don’t see a plethora of new people coming along and getting involved .. I can only think of one at present
Shep Titian: Trebor!
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Shep?
Shep Titian: You did’nt ask to speak
Trebor Warcliffe: My apologies.
Shep Titian: Thank you
Shep Titian: We don’t have a constitutional quorum here now do we
Patroklus Murakami: no. but we can still vote
Patroklus Murakami: anna and rosie’s votes may then decide it
Shep Titian: Ok .. well I want everyone who wants to be involved to be able to .. so Pat please put your proposal
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
Shep Titian: I had seconded .. so call a vgote .. I vote aye
Beathan Vale: nay
Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
Patroklus Murakami: down to rosie and anna 🙂
Shep Titian: Okay .. Anna and Rosie have 7 day on this
Shep Titian: Moving on .. do we have any commission reports?
Patroklus Murakami: none i’m aware of
Patroklus Murakami: brb
Shep Titian: ok … Trebor .. exec report?
Trebor Warcliffe: None today
Shep Titian: ok … I’m not aware of any general announcements
Trebor Warcliffe: I have to go see everyone later
Shep Titian: So next meeting ?
Shep Titian: Bye Trebor
Beathan Vale: Two weeks?
Beathan Vale: We need to get moving on the new sim
Shep Titian: ok 12th June 9 am??
Beathan Vale: Second
Patroklus Murakami: june???
Shep Titian: yes we do .. Anna was doing that
Beathan Vale: gack — right
Beathan Vale: May
Fern Leissa: hehe
Shep Titian: sorry lol
Shep Titian: May
Patroklus Murakami: ok to may 🙂
Shep Titian: cool
Shep Titian: so adjourn say aye
Shep Titian: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Beathan Vale: aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 12 May 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of Saturday 12th May 2012 at 9a.m.

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)

– Old Business
1) revisiting the proposals and vote on limiting the RA to 5 seats .. (10 mins)

2) revisiting the proposal and vote on removing term limits .. (10 mins)

Both the above original proposals can be seen in the transcript of the RA meeting of 28th April which has subsequently been called invalid by the SC ..
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3803

– New Business

— Proposals …….
1) proposal for a revised ‘Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act’ and a Constitutional Amendment to enact SC reform from Patroklus.murakami..
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=15#p19764

2) “Reinforcing the Balance of Power Act” from Gwynneth Llewelyn
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&p=19768#p19768

*note New business Proposals are left untimed .. discretion will be used …

– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:

1. The RA voted (again) to amend the Constitution to set the number of RA seats at five.

Ayes – Anna, Patroklus, Rosie, Shep.

Beathan has a 7-day vote but, with four votes, the Constitutional Amendment passes.

2. The RA voted (again) to repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act

Ayes – Patroklus, Rosie, Shep.

Nays – Anna.

Beathan has a 7-day vote but the proposal passes.

3. The RA agreed to refer proposals for SC reform to the joint RA/SC committee and requested they come back with a proposal in time for the next RA meeting on 26 May. The RA (and SC members present and the Chancellor) invited Sudane to join the committee.

The transcript of the joint committee has been posted

here

.

4. The proposed ‘Reinforcing the Balance of Powers Act’ failed for lack of a second. Discussion can continue on the forums. Delia agreed to set up a separate thread.

5. The RA agreed to meet again on 26 May at 9am SLT in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

Anna Toussaint: ok, let;’s get started folks
Shep Titian: So we three might be egless by the end of thisw!!
Anna Toussaint: has everybody had a chabce to see the agenda
Anna Toussaint: chance?
Patroklus Murakami: yes ty anna
Shep Titian: Yes 🙂
Anna Toussaint: any corrections, additions, gripes or bitches?
Pip Torok: i have …
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Anna Toussaint: k
Anna Toussaint: what. Pip?
Shep Titian: none
Anna Toussaint: Pip?
Anna Toussaint: going once, going twice ,…
Pip Torok: only to ask for speaking to oldbiz 1
Anna Toussaint: oh, ok
Anna Toussaint: so we’re all happy with the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Anna Toussaint: I’d like to thank Shep for putting it together, btw, and apologize to the RA for my absences lately
Shep Titian: YW
Anna Toussaint: computer problems and a move have kept me busy
Anna Toussaint: but the computer has been fixed
Anna Toussaint: hi, rosie
Shep Titian: Hi Rosie hun 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi rosie
Rosie Gray: hi everyone, sorry to be late
Lilith Ivory: Hi Rosie
Pip Torok: good and congrats, Anna
Anna Toussaint: ok, who’s goiung to speak for these agenda items?
Anna Toussaint: Pip for #1, know
Pip Torok: me on OB1 as ive mentioned
Patroklus Murakami: happy to speak to my items
Anna Toussaint: I know
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: k, Calli dropped me a note
Anna Toussaint: CalliL?
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: I hope to speak to all notion on the floor today..and to save time, here is a link to my reponse to Pat’s amended motions for today
Callipygian Christensen: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=45#p19805
Anna Toussaint: great, thanks!
Delia Lake raises her hand re New Business regarding the SC
Delia Lake: and also the Balance of Power Act
Anna Toussaint: ok, got it,. Delia, thanks!
Lilith Ivory is not sure yet but might want to speak also
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Lil, Soro?
Soro Dagostino: I will likely want time to speak.
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any citizen concerns?
Anna Toussaint: RA members concerns?
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Anna Toussaint: which is kinda redundant,. I guess
Anna Toussaint: Rosie is here to take care of our mouse problem
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Shep Titian: nope am fine
Anna Toussaint: As Beathan is not here, we’ll do a seven-day vote
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: ok, on to old business
Anna Toussaint: Calli, would you speak to the SCs decision regarding the legality of the last meeting?
Callipygian Christensen: Ok Anna
Callipygian Christensen: The SC found the meeting of April 28th t be invalid, therefore any business conducted during that meeting is also invalid
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Calli
Patroklus Murakami: i move we revote on the proposal to limit the RA to five seats
Anna Toussaint: so that is why we are revisiting old buisiness items 1 and 2
Anna Toussaint: ok, is there a second?
Rosie Gray: I will second that motion
Anna Toussaint: discussion?
Pip Torok raises hand
Anna Toussaint: pip?
Pip Torok: i ask the RA to reconsider OB1 for the same reason as i support revoking OB2 ..
Anna Toussaint: by reconsider, you mean vote it down this time?
Pip Torok: and that is the practical difficulties of working with only a quorate limit of 5 ..
Anna Toussaint: ah
Anna Toussaint: ok
Pip Torok: in the background of current financial constraints and consequent apathy done
Rosie Gray: can you expand on the practical difficulties, Pip?
Patroklus Murakami recalls that we had the most difficulty getting quorate meetings when we had larger RAs
Pip Torok: yes .. given the smallish number of registered voters and the infrequency (as today) of many ppl logging-in .. done
Anna Toussaint: actually, we have a quorate meeting now …
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we vote on this. i can repost the original CA if you like
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend article 1 section 2 of the constitution so that instead of “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats.” it reads “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to five”
Pip Torok: the question is .. how often will we have one in any given term
Anna Toussaint: we have had them in every meeting
Patroklus Murakami: our record has been pretty good this term – with five members
Anna Toussaint: Pat has moved to call the question …
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Pip Torok: i conceded that with the observation that
Shep Titian: second
Pip Torok: it depends on the RIGHT choice of ppl on the RA
Anna Toussaint: true
Anna Toussaint: but there is a motion to call the question, so all in favor say “aye”
Pip Torok: i should say the RIGHT combination of ppl and how they cooperate
Shep Titian: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Pip Torok: (sorry)
Anna Toussaint: all opposed vote naye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes nay
Anna Toussaint: the ayes have it
Anna Toussaint: we will vote on the original motion
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, vote “aye”
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chaIr votes aye
Anna Toussaint: the constitution has been amended
Shep Titian: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: by a vote of 80% of the RA
Anna Toussaint: now onto old business item #2
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: discussion?
Anna Toussaint: anybody in the gallery care to comment?
Rosie Gray: I’m still reading Calli’s post
Anna Toussaint: k
Callipygian Christensen: Rosie..that is relevant to later stuff
Delia Lake raises her hand
Rosie Gray: ah okay
Rosie Gray: sorry, yes Term Limits
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Delia Lake: I don’t feel overly strongly about this but just want to put out that sometimes it’s good for politicians to have a break from a position for a term and then return with fresh eyes
Rosie Gray couldn’t argue with that
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Delia
Anna Toussaint: anybody else want to speak to this?
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, say “aye”
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: only to say that theses breaks can be taken without needing to enforce termlimits
Shep Titian: Aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Anna Toussaint: all opposed say “nay”
Anna Toussaint: the chair vote “nay”
Anna Toussaint: there is a seven day vote
Rosie Gray: ahem
Anna Toussaint: and as a constitutional amendment, it requires 60%
Anna Toussaint: yes>
Anna Toussaint: did I screw up?
Patroklus Murakami thinks it’s only a bill
Rosie Gray: lol, no
Patroklus Murakami: so, has passed 🙂
Rosie Gray: think I maybe did
Anna Toussaint: ah, is it?
Anna Toussaint: I thought the term limits were constitutional
Patroklus Murakami: no, just a bill
Anna Toussaint: shows why I shouldn’t be on the SC 🙂
Shep Titian: I’d agree .. constitutional
Anna Toussaint: but if they’re not in the constituion, then they’re not
Anna Toussaint: she says intelligently
Shep Titian: lol
Patroklus Murakami: the original was a bill, not a Const Amendment
Anna Toussaint: so, the motion has passed with three votes “aye”
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Shep Titian: Good
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure the SC will let us know if we got it wrong 🙂
Anna Toussaint: I would HOPE so …
Patroklus Murakami waits for anna
Rosie Gray: oh oh
Patroklus Murakami: oh, we lost her 🙁
Rosie Gray regurgitates some rat meat to chew on
Shep Titian: Lmao
Patroklus Murakami: now *that* has never been said in an RA meeting before!
Rosie Gray: ?
Patroklus Murakami: shall we give her a minute to relog?
Rosie Gray: I think we should
Pip Torok: and maybe never again? .. :] Patroklus Murakami: *lot* to get through today…
Rosie Gray: yay!
Shep Titian: And Breathe 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: wb anna 🙂
Shep Titian: wb hun 🙂
Pip Torok: wb
Callipygian Christensen: I cant even bring myself to say the usual ‘did you bring enough for evveryone?’
Anna Toussaint: sorry bout that
Anna Toussaint: sorry bout that
Shep Titian: * listens to the crunching of tiny bones 😀
Anna Toussaint: where were we?
Patroklus Murakami: i move the revised ‘Scientific council affirmation procedures act’ outlined here:
Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=45#p19802
Shep Titian: Teehee
Patroklus Murakami: new biz item 1)
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: I believe old business was concluded
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: thanks 🙂
Rosie Gray: so seconded
Anna Toussaint: ok, discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: may i?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: so, we have two reform proposals related tot eh SC to consider
Patroklus Murakami: the first is this bill, the second a constitutional amendment
Patroklus Murakami: the bill can pass without needing the CA
Patroklus Murakami: the purpose of the bill is to make sure that candidate SC members are always considered by the RA and a vote taken (in line with the constitution)
Patroklus Murakami: it closes the loophole left by NL 4-8 where this oversight could be bypassed
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: by accident or design 🙂
Anna Toussaint: are you finished, pat?
Patroklus Murakami: one more thing
Anna Toussaint: k
Patroklus Murakami: it opens up nominations to all citizens. the sC would provide advice to the RA on candidates but would not be able to filter them as at present. done 🙂
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Soro Dagostino: I believe the process is constitutional. And needs that vote to pass.
Anna Toussaint: does it modify the constitution?
Patroklus Murakami: NL 4-8 is a bill, not a constituional amendment. this is not a constitutional amendment either
Patroklus Murakami: unless you want to argue that NL 4-8 was unconstitutional? 🙂
Soro Dagostino: Respectfully disagree.
Delia Lake raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Patroklus Murakami: actually i need to correct a mistake in my presentation. i may have misled you (including soro)
Anna Toussaint: first Delia, then Pat
Delia Lake: although the bill may be positioned as a replacement/negation of the Affirmation law, it also would materially affect the constitutionally described right of the SC tas a “a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. ”
Anna Toussaint: done?
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Anna Toussaint: first Pat, then Soro
Patroklus Murakami: apologies, my presentation contained an inaccuracy
Patroklus Murakami: the bill *does not* alllow anyone to nominate sc members
Patroklus Murakami: that is in the constitutional amendment
Anna Toussaint: good ,… I thought I was missing something
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Patroklus Murakami: what i intended to say is – regardless of whether we continue with the current ‘self selection’ or refrom the system, teh bill ensure that every candidate faces a vote of confidence by the RA
Soro Dagostino: I agree with the point made by Delia.
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Soro Dagostino: The “legislation” intrudes on the constitutional right of the SC to appoint its own members.
Patroklus Murakami would like to hear *how* this bill affects the constitutuion. it does not
Anna Toussaint: oh, sorry … thought you were done
Callipygian Christensen will wait for the exchange between Pat and Soro to end
Patroklus Murakami: done 🙂
Anna Toussaint: k
Soro Dagostino: done.
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: I posted a link earlier to my thoughts on both the bill and amendment
Callipygian Christensen: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=45#p19805
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: I believe this bill potentially cripples the SC for long periods of time, sets the scene for a refusal to affirm based on reasons not related to upholding the Consitution..
Callipygian Christensen: and will ultimately discourage good candiates from standing
Callipygian Christensen: In addition, the -no vote = fail’ just rpelaces the ability for the RA to subvert the process in the way it claims the SC has done
Anna Toussaint: Pat, would you comment on how you feel the SC has subverted the process?
Callipygian Christensen: I dont believe amending this bill is the answer..I believe it should be defeated and a join committee should dvelop a practical, clear replacement
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you … sorry
Anna Toussaint: the chair will remind the body that originally, we had settled on a joint committee
Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: i think the SC is *able* to subvert the process by proposing candidates at a time when they know the RA will find it difficult to meet. the 30 day rule then kicks in and the RA is unable to provide a vote of confidence *as in the constitution*
Anna Toussaint: I believe that is still in effect
Anna Toussaint: has that ever happened?
Patroklus Murakami: hold on a minute. the RA is free to bring forward its own proposals
Callipygian Christensen: what times does the RA find it ‘difficult to meet’?
Anna Toussaint: it is
Patroklus Murakami: this was in my manifesto and beathan’s
Patroklus Murakami: and i have met with the SC on several occasions
Anna Toussaint: but, we agreed on a joint committee
Anna Toussaint: what are the results of that?
Patroklus Murakami: it is clear we could not find a proposal acceptable to all
Delia Lake raises her hand in objection
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Delia Lake: we never met as a whole committee of 4!
Patroklus Murakami: 2. The RA discussed the Scientific Council. It was proposed that Calli and Delia (for the SC) and Beathan and Pat (for the RA) should work together on draft proposals for discussion on reforming the way the SC does its work.
Patroklus Murakami: from 7 january meeting
Delia Lake: we met me, Pat and Calli, and Calli met with Beathan
Anna Toussaint: yes, I remember
Delia Lake: but never during this term did we meet as the whole committee.
Delia Lake: When Reform of the Scientific Council was raised in the RA this term, the RA set up a committee to look into this matter. Assigned to this Committee was Pat, Beathan, Calli and Delia (me). During this past term we did not meet ever as a whole group. We did discuss 1 on 1 and 3 together but not as all 4 together, so there are no official findings out of this Committee. It is my opinion that if this were such a burning issue that it must be accomplished this term, folks could have made a more concerted effort to find time for working out SC reforms as a committee. Instead, RA members have rushed to propose and pass their ideas of what constitutes SC reform circumventing the democratic process of the Committee which in the past has included public hearings regarding matters of a significant Constitutional change.
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: was there a specific reason it did not meet?
Patroklus Murakami: difficult to find a time for all four of us to meet. very different time zones for some of us and limited availablity
Delia Lake: I was willing to meet at many different times and many different hours. even what would normally have been my sleeping hours
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t accept this is a valid reason not to consider SC reform
Delia Lake: Calli, you were trying to arrange meeting times and may wish to speak to that
Patroklus Murakami: also, there was a difference in interests
Anna Toussaint: Calli has been trying to speK
Anna Toussaint: speak
Patroklus Murakami: i’m interested in reforming the SC as an institution
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Delia Lake: excuse me Pat? setting up a RA committee, then circumventing it is not a valid reason not to push ahead?
Patroklus Murakami: others want to reform sC procerures
Callipygian Christensen: thank you Anna
Anna Toussaint: Calli has the floor
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Delia Lake: you! determined that there was a difference in interests all by yourself. Pat
Callipygian Christensen: There was ‘fault’ on both sides of the join commitee if fault must be found
Callipygian Christensen: Time diferences, availability, lack of response, RL cutting in to time to research and draft..
Callipygian Christensen: I will take the blame for that, since i was the one trying to arrange meetings
Callipygian Christensen: Instead of both ‘sides’ circling the wagons and laying blame, can we cut the rhetoric and accept, the committee did not meet and did not do its job..
Callipygian Christensen: reinstaet it * with timeframes* and lets get a true picture of what people see as good reform
Callipygian Christensen: ‘we wont ever agree so why bother’ is not a good reason to pass major legilation in haste imo
Anna Toussaint: as far as I know, it has not been DE-instated
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Anna Toussaint: who is correct, btw, that a motion may be brought at any time by any RA member
Callipygian Christensen: I speak for myself as Dean, and state that the SC desires good reform of its roles and processes, but does not accept the right of another branch of govt to dicatet hose changes completely
Anna Toussaint: and there is one one the floor, and we will vote on it if it is not withdrawn
Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
Anna Toussaint: sorry Calli, I jumped the gun
Callipygian Christensen: Done
Anna Toussaint: pat, then soro
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Patroklus Murakami: having met with beathan, delia and calli (tho not all together) it became clear to me that we would not be able to reach a consensus. the SC is an unelected body and some members want to preserve their privileges and resist reform. so it became clear to me that the RA would need to act. i posted proposals in line with my manifesto and we discussed this on the forums.
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: it is the right of the ra to consider constitutional reform and it is not bound by the SC on this. we do not need to ask permission to do what we were elected to do. and i’m afraid that calli’s proposals just kick this to the long grass.
Patroklus Murakami: done
Anna Toussaint: Soro, then Deliam, then Treb
Soro Dagostino: Madame LRA . . .
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Soro Dagostino: I submit the action requested in the motion on the floor is a constitutional matter.
Soro Dagostino: I note that as a member of the SC I will ask that it be flagged for review by the SC.
Anna Toussaint: well. if the RA votes it, the SC can declare it unconstitutional
Anna Toussaint: L:)
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: Done, Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Done on that issue — unless Pat speaks to it again.
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Delia Lake: 2 different issues regarding this here from me. firstly, I take issue with Pat’s statement above. The only meeting, in fact the only discussion I had with him this term was with Calli present as well. since Beathan could not make it the 3 of us agreed to have a purely informational discussion–i’m looking right now at my transcript of that meeting.
Delia Lake: and I would like to know on what basis Pat claims that the SC is not interested in reform because in my conversations with my SC colleagues we do beliefe that some reform and reevaluation is in order
Delia Lake: Secondly, to speak directly to the proposed bill again
Delia Lake: In the Constitution, The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution.
Pat?s proposed bill ?the SC shall evaluate the candidates and shall inform the RA of the results of such evaluations.? And ?The RA shall vote on all candidates. The SC shall seat the candidates in order of approval by the RA.?
Delia Lake: so I am very very concerned that not only does this bill impinge on constitutional matters but also that there would be room for the RA to deep six someone who was eminently qualified and willing but with whom a voting minority of RA had personality problems. right now the sole criteria for affirmation of the SC nominees has to do with their ability and willingness to uphold the constitution, as I believe it should be.
Rosie Gray raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, then Rosie
Delia Lake: if it were to be found that the sole qualification of a nominee to the SC was “friend of current SC member” the RA could refuse affirmation on the grounds of not able to uphold the constitution due to lack of constitutional knowledge
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Soro Dagostino: And can we all agree that Pat hates Soro’s guts.
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Rosie Gray raises woolly eyebrows
Anna Toussaint: Pat? 🙂
Shep Titian: Tsk
Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw the motion. i propose that we refer this to the joint RA/SC commitee for consideration
Delia Lake didn’t know feathers and wool mixed on one creature…
Anna Toussaint: thank you pat ,…
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Pip Torok wd prefer seemly and apposite remarks
Anna Toussaint: ok, Trebor, then Rosie
Anna Toussaint: then Calli
Shep Titian: Thank you Pat 🙂
Anna Toussaint: I will, btw, entertain a motion that we put time limits on the committee’s work, and perhaps add or replace members who can find a time
Trebor Warcliffe: Seeing that Pat has withdrawn the motion for the time being I have nothing to contribute. I will say we have some very scholary citizens in the CDS (Gwynn, josjosa) so I would encourage as much participation as possibel considerign the seriousness of reforming an entire branch of the government. TY
Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
Patroklus Murakami: well, it should report back before our next meeting in, i assume, two weeks time
Anna Toussaint: we can stipulate that
Anna Toussaint: Rosie?
Rosie Gray: I was going to make a motion that we send this questiohn back to the RA/SC commission
Anna Toussaint: ah ok
Rosie Gray: but now that is redundant
Anna Toussaint: Callli?
Anna Toussaint: but with two “l’s”
Callipygian Christensen: I thank Pat for withdrawing this and ending it to committee – I I ask that we meet within the next week to discuss this and ask that you and Beathan provide a set of times that work for both of you
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Anna Toussaint: who’s schedule was the primary hold-up?
Callipygian Christensen: Delia and I will hopefully be able to find one that we are also both available, so more than one suitable time would be beneficial
Callipygian Christensen: Done
Patroklus Murakami: i will do that calli offline 🙂
Anna Toussaint: whose schedule was the primary hold-up?
Callipygian Christensen: Anna, with respect, I think we should focus on shceduling upcomingmeetings, not rehash past failures.
Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
Anna Toussaint: no rehashing ,… just trying to come up with a committee that can meet
Anna Toussaint: or a majority
Callipygian Christensen: The committee already exists
Anna Toussaint: if we add a member, then I would feel better if they meet with four out of five, say
Soro Dagostino: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: does that make sense?
Callipygian Christensen: If you add a member, i would suggest it be a citizen not sitting on either body at this time or hlding other office
Anna Toussaint: I agree
Callipygian Christensen: holding
Patroklus Murakami: i would hate for us not to take this forward just because of scheduling difficulties
Callipygian Christensen: lol..’hiding’ would be a totally different matter
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: I agree pat
Anna Toussaint: so, let’s add a member from the community
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: and specify that the committee can do it’s business with 4 out of 5
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Anna Toussaint: could be
Anna Toussaint: how ’bout you, Lil?
Patroklus Murakami: gwyn is rarely online these days.
Anna Toussaint: true
Lilith Ivory: I?m a member of the SC 😉
Anna Toussaint: oops
Anna Toussaint: sorry
Anna Toussaint: forgot
Lilith Ivory: no problem 🙂
Anna Toussaint: is Pip a member?
Pip Torok: no
Callipygian Christensen: Sudane just logged in
Lilith Ivory: he might be one soon
Lilith Ivory: of RA
Anna Toussaint: are you suggesting Sudane, Calli
Anna Toussaint: true
Callipygian Christensen: she is a long time citizen and tends to call a spade a spade
Trebor Warcliffe: yes she does
Anna Toussaint: ok, will you ask her, Calli?
Rosie Gray: I think Sudane would be an excellent choice, if she would agree
Patroklus Murakami: sudane would be great. if she’s interested 🙂
Delia Lake: agreed
Callipygian Christensen: just throwing out potential names of citizens i think all might agree are unbiased and knowledgable
Callipygian Christensen: ok
Callipygian Christensen: Sending an IM..so perhps something can continue while I do so
Trebor Warcliffe: “Paging Sudane, Sudane please join us at the Praetorium
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Pip Torok: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: ok, let’s go on to the constitutional amendment
Anna Toussaint: does someone want to move it?
Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw that too
Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we ask the commission to look at all of this
Anna Toussaint: ok … it hadn’t been moved, so no wihdrawal necessary
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Same thought madame LRA
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: great minds …
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any commission reports?
Patroklus Murakami: we have gwyn’s proposal too new biz 2)
Anna Toussaint: does anyone want to move it?
Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
Delia Lake: I would like to speak to that one
Anna Toussaint: well, if it doesn’t get moved, there is no discussion necessary …
Anna Toussaint: anybody want to move it?
Anna Toussaint: I hear a deathly silence …
Rosie Gray: hmmm
Shep Titian: * whistles
Anna Toussaint: yeeesssss?
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: no motion
Rosie Gray: I have to read it
Delia Lake raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: soro, then delia
Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Thank you Madame LRA
Anna Toussaint: soro was first earlier
Soro Dagostino: The subject matter should be considered by the commission.
Patroklus Murakami: i disagree 🙂
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn has a history that needs to be reviewed.
Rosie Gray raises hand
Anna Toussaint: do you then wish to move it, Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: okay, i move it 🙂
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Anna Toussaint: Soro,. you still have the floor
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Sudane 🙂
Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Rosie Gray: ?
Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane’s ears must have been burning right off her scalp lol
Soro Dagostino: If the matter fails for lack of a second, I suspect Gwyn will make her feelings known.
Anna Toussaint: oh, well
Sudane Erato: they were… with help 🙂
Soro Dagostino: 40 pages of it.
Rosie Gray: lol
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Soro Dagostino: It will be hard for the commission to ignore her comments.
Anna Toussaint: seeing that there isa no second, I rule that the proposal is moot
Trebor Warcliffe: Gwynn’s my literary idol I wish I could write that much LOL
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Soro Dagostino: So, Madame LRA —
Callipygian Christensen would suggest that lacking a second, the discussion of it moes to the Forums
Anna Toussaint: the committee cadn talk about whatever iut wants
Anna Toussaint: I agree with Calli
Rosie Gray thanks everyone for not writing as much as Gwyn each time they want to make a point
Anna Toussaint: yes soro?
Delia Lake: I agree with Calli’s point also
Soro Dagostino: Point made.
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think this is relevant for the commision. the issue is ‘reform of the SC’ and this is out of scope. we should beware ‘scope creep’.
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Delia Lake: with Gwyn’s permission I’ll copy her post re balance of powers to a separate and easily findable thread
Anna Toussaint: I have one comment ,… it’s not a commission, it’s a committee
Delia Lake agrees it is out of scope re SC reform
Patroklus Murakami: i stand corrected 🙂
Anna Toussaint: a commission is made up of members of one body
Anna Toussaint: a committee cannot bring a motion as a commision can
Anna Toussaint: Sudane, are you willing to join this committee
Anna Toussaint: ?
Sudane Erato: yes… with reluctance. 🙂
Soro Dagostino: LOL
Anna Toussaint: noted and understood 🙂
Rosie Gray: 😛
Anna Toussaint: ok, the RA advises the committee not to discuss Gwyns amendment
Anna Toussaint: don’t mention it
Anna Toussaint: never let it cross your lips
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Soro Dagostino: HAHAAH
Rosie Gray: 0;0
Callipygian Christensen: I’d like to insert here that Sudane as a membr was supported by both the SC representatives and the RA representative prsent.
Trebor Warcliffe: And the Chancellor
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Whatever thats worth lol
Anna Toussaint: and the third branch as well
Anna Toussaint: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: ol
Callipygian Christensen: unanimous support..I think we just declared you EMpress Sudane 🙂
Trebor Warcliffe: I have to give her something to yell at me about. Ive been behaving myself to well lately.
Sudane Erato: lol… forget it! 🙂
Rosie Gray: hehehe
Callipygian Christensen: oh,and i agree..Gwyn’s proposal is out of scope for the committee
Shep Titian: 🙂
Anna Toussaint: all hail her supreme empress-ness
Sudane Erato: pfft
Anna Toussaint: now, commission reports?
Anna Toussaint: trebor? hopefull short?
Trebor Warcliffe: heyyyyy
Anna Toussaint: it is 5 minutes till the witching hour
Anna Toussaint: but we started a few minutes late
Trebor Warcliffe: We had a wonderful gathering yesterday thanks to Shep for pulling that together
Shep Titian: YVW
Anna Toussaint: I am sorry I missed it 🙁
Patroklus Murakami: it was fun. ty shep 🙂
Sudane Erato: TY Shep!! 🙂
Shep Titian: 🙂
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d really like to encourage everyone to talk to your fellow citizens to contribute a little more time and effort this upcoming term
Trebor Warcliffe: We have a lot on our plates and could benefit from everyones contributions.
Trebor Warcliffe: I think thats all for now.
Anna Toussaint: thanks, herr chancellor
Pip Torok: I’d like to propose a vote of thanks to our LRA for her work this term!
Anna Toussaint: oh, pshaw
Rosie Gray: 😀
Delia Lake was really sorry to miss the event also. couldn’t get inworld at all yesterday
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not over yet folks!
Anna Toussaint: I messed up as often as I helped
Rosie Gray: I’d second Pip’s proposal
Anna Toussaint: ok, there’s a motion … is this the last meeting of this RA?
Patroklus Murakami: hip hip hurray for the LRA but… we have one meeting yet!
Sudane Erato: i strongly agree with Pip’s proposal!
Pip Torok: we do?
Patroklus Murakami: i move we meet again in two weeks time
Anna Toussaint: sounds good … everybody agree?
Rosie Gray: do we?
Patroklus Murakami: the new RA does not begin until 1 June
Rosie Gray: so we are talking about May 26?
Anna Toussaint: when is the vote?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Anna Toussaint: that would be it
Shep Titian: 2 weeks is fine for me
Rosie Gray: fine for me
Callipygian Christensen: polls go out in an hour
Anna Toussaint: May 26 at 9 am right here
Rosie Gray: excellent!
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Anna Toussaint: good
Anna Toussaint: is there a motion to adjourn?
Shep Titian: Yes fine
Patroklus Murakami: so moved
Anna Toussaint: second?
Rosie Gray: second
Anna Toussaint: all in favor?
Pip Torok: may i suggest we all keep our copies of this meeting?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Anna Toussaint: see you all!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 26 May 2012

Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. dear citizens
Shep (shep.titian): Anna apologizes and asks me to chair
Shep (shep.titian): So if we may begin
Lilith Ivory: Hi guys
Rosie Gray waves to Lilith
Shep (shep.titian): Have you all checked the agenda and approve?
Lilith Ivory waves back
Shep (shep.titian): Hoi Lilith:)
Lilith Ivory: Hi Shep
You decline ! McCoy Island – Karoke – Open Mic from A group member named Ronald Barrabus.
Shep (shep.titian): Ok I hear no negatives
Shep (shep.titian): I believe I see all speakers for todays items barring Pat .. how many will want to speak ?
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Trebor Warcliffe: I will
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Good all covered thank you
Lilith Ivory: I might
Shep (shep.titian): Noted Lilith
Beathan Vale: I have a word or two
Shep (shep.titian): Do any citizens have any concerns they wish to bring up?
Daniel Sosa: I have a clarification question
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Beathan
Daniel Sosa: about SC
Shep (shep.titian): Go ahead Daniel
Daniel Sosa: When reading the forums it was said that a new Chair of SC is elected in July
Daniel Sosa: does that mean that Calli will be up for another vote for SC chair
Shep (shep.titian): That has yet to be passed in the reforms
Daniel Sosa: oh ok
Daniel Sosa: thank you
Callipygian Christensen: Yes Daniel..imo it will , if that passes
Shep (shep.titian): And my answer is I hope so
Shep (shep.titian): Ok any RA members with conerns?
Rosie Gray: not me
Beathan Vale: no special concerns today
Shep (shep.titian): Nor me
Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on
Shep (shep.titian): Any old business that has any final problems?
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Shep (shep.titian): Ok … New business .. and Trebor’s proposals …
Shep (shep.titian): Trebor would you like to say what you want to achieve and invite opinions ,, then present formally?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I can.
Shep (shep.titian): Good . I give you the floor for your first proposal
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Trebor Warcliffe: The Calendar proposal was developed based on Sudane’s post in the forums. I dont want it to seem I’m being “heavy handed” (credit to Shep on that one) but it does seem if it isnt mandated than it hardly ever gets done. By holding all 3 branches responsible for their little sections I hope it will encourage our citizens to make use of it also.
Trebor Warcliffe: By the way, I’m practicing my being brief adn getting to the point methods LOL
Sudane Erato: Calendar touch access is posted on the right rear wall of the room, for those who’d like to try it
Shep (shep.titian): Well excellent work lol
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Trebor Warcliffe: It’s frustrating that we have many good tools at our disposal and we’re not making good use of them.
Trebor Warcliffe: What else Shep?
Shep (shep.titian): Well lets see if you want this made a formal proposal
Cranston Yordstorm is Online
Shep (shep.titian): I for one feel its a step too far
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like it to be but if the three branches agree they will make a concentrated effort to use the Calendar this term
Trebor Warcliffe: I can abstain
spencer Cascarino is Offline
Shep (shep.titian): I’ll be honest .. my sons and I tried a networked diary and we soon let it slide
Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane has made it quite easy for us to use the calendar
Sudane Erato: Well, we need SOME claer and consistent system to publicize dates
spencer Cascarino is Online
Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
Lilith Ivory nods
Shep (shep.titian): Its not the use Trebor its the desire to use it ..
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
Rosie Gray raises hand
Daniel Sosa: What is the intent of the calendar
Taylee Helix is Online
Daniel Sosa: maybe use it for limited things at first to see how it is taken by the citizens and if uused well then gradually increase the use of it
Trebor Warcliffe: To publisize events, important dates such as RA and SC meetings
Trebor Warcliffe: It’s been in place for years it just hasnt been utilized
Daniel Sosa: then what would make it used more now
Daniel Sosa: I mean by the citizens
Daniel Sosa: if that is the goal as well
Sudane Erato: because a law required it
Lilith Ivory: I have it combined wioth calendars of other comunities … but never see a CDS event there
Shep (shep.titian): It’s a very patronisding law
Rosie Gray raises hand … again
Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
Daniel Sosa: Would their be penalties for non use and how would it be governed
Trebor Warcliffe: If a citizen holds a weekly event such as Deni and her dance parties at her Gallery on Wed nights, she would post the event on teh calendar so anyoen looking at the calendar knows whats going on.
Trebor Warcliffe: Done for now, sorry Rosie
Rosie Gray: that’s okay… I just wanted to point out that it’s such a clumsy system
Rosie Gray: I personally never use those calendars…
Trebor Warcliffe: How’s that?
Shep (shep.titian): I did’nt know we had one
Beathan Vale: I am skeptical that any citizens will look at the calendar other than those who already read the forums — and we have a history of posting notices on the forums — so I see no real benefit from this, but it clearly adds a new burden and responsibility to the LRA, Dean, etc. — Notice is good and important (as the SC has already ruled in invalidating a RA meeting) — that should be enough
Rosie Gray: I prefer activities to be promoted in-world and through the SL events
Sudane Erato: very few citizens read the forums
Beathan Vale: and very few will look at the calendar
Sudane Erato: and event postings are hard to find there
Rosie Gray: I just don’t think it’s worth the effort using that calendar
Lilith Ivory: itÂ´s not such a ig burde to post an event there
Lilith Ivory: Aria forced me to do it when I was LRA
Shep (shep.titian): I think we have a consenus Trebor .. do you wish to continue or would you like to withdraw the propsal?
Sudane Erato:
Daniel Sosa: Does the calendar show up in public places throughout the sim
Rosie Gray: it’s here and there Daniel
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy
Trebor Warcliffe: Shep if I can get an oral committment from an SC and an RA member, along with myself that we will all make use of the calendar this term I would be willing to withdraw my formal proposal
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Some form of community calendar is definitely useful. Many organizations have one and it can be a good way of getting information to those interested if people maintain it.
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Razzy, ty
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy as new RA would you like the task of using the calender this term to see if it makes a difference?
Shep (shep.titian): Calli after Razzy
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Razzy (moonrise.azalee): I use google calendars for work and for a few organizations I run, I am certainly willing to use the calendar for posting anything I am made aware of.
Rosie Gray reflects that perhaps it is because the calendar has never had anything on it that she has found it useless
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent Razzy thank you
Lilith Ivory nods in agreement
Shep (shep.titian): Excellent .. Trebor you havve RA prepared to try .. Calli?
Lilith Ivory: as I was silly enough to speak for it I could do also
Callipygian Christensen: Shep, thankyou – 2 things. First I have no objection to posting to the calendar – the SC now has a Secretary who will have that as part of the duties
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Lillith, as will I for the Executive branch.
Callipygian Christensen: second though, Treb, you mention Deni’s events as an example
Trebor Warcliffe: yes
Edward Ballinger is Online
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. Trebor I accept your withdrawing of that propsal
Callipygian Christensen: what you were propsing doesnt addrss citizen activity (as it shouldnt) but perhaps the PIO actively inviting peple to post such regular or one time events should be done also
Trebor Warcliffe: Correct
Trebor Warcliffe: That’s my way of thinking
Trebor Warcliffe: Someone in the Executive branch pays attention to our citizen held events and posts them also if hte citizen doesnt do it themselves
Callipygian Christensen: mMight even do it for them Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes, see above, Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank You Trebor
spencer Cascarino is Offline
Shep (shep.titian): ok no vote needed moving on
Shep (shep.titian): Shall we do the same with your next proposal Trebor?
Trebor Warcliffe: ???
Shep (shep.titian): The Waiver
Trebor Warcliffe: I feel pretty passionate about the waiver
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like it discussed
Shep (shep.titian): So lets nave it!!
Shep (shep.titian): Have
Rosie Gray: lol
Callipygian Christensen: I think she meant ‘follow the same format’, not ‘withdraw’
Shep (shep.titian): Yes
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry .. welsh!
Trebor Warcliffe: I have yet to see anyone present a true “conflict of interest” example that would make this waiver a bad idea. Those who argue the conflict of interest are questioning their own abilities to make a decicison based on what is presented and not because they have a civil service position and the Chancellor wants it passed.
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Trebor Warcliffe: If people are willing and able to hold multiple positions in the CDS than I dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to.
Trebor Warcliffe: Waiting for a counter argument now.
Beathan Vale: Plurality of office and separation of powerss
Trebor Warcliffe: Im listening Beathan
Beathan Vale: Plurality of office (concentration of powers in a few people) has always been proven to be a bad and harmful idea wherever and whenever it has been tried
Shep (shep.titian): My counter is’nmt about example it’s about the three arms of Government
Trebor Warcliffe: A civil service position doesnt have power as far as in the Executive branch
spencer Cascarino is Online
Beathan Vale: Separation of Powers is a key mechanism for preventign exactly that — and it is CONSTITUTIONALLY mandated here — and this Act proposes to essentially abolish it
Soro Dagostino: brb
Trebor Warcliffe: The Chancellor is hte one who presents the proposal to the RA
Beathan Vale: That is — frankly — both dangerous and crazy
Shep (shep.titian): Your ‘helpers’ are part of the executive Trebor
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Trebor Warcliffe: In a civil service position yes but not in a decision making position like the Chancellor
Beathan Vale: and all because recruitment is difficult and that makes certain projects harder —
Shep (shep.titian): Sudane
Beathan Vale: I would rather handle that either through better recruitment or fewer projects
Sudane Erato: to suggest in RL that the holder of a governemtnt position… let’s say a legislator… could not go and volunteer at a soup kitchen… would be the height of luncay
Sudane Erato: *lunacy
Sudane Erato: we NEED volunteers
Sudane Erato: done
Shep (shep.titian): Sudane Trebor is’nt asking for that level of help .. I already do a good bit more than that
Beathan Vale: no one is suggesting that govt officials can’t volunteer in private activities — the proposal is to allow people to hold multiple, official positions in multiple branches of govt — entirely different
Sudane Erato: forget the saqlaries
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Daniel Sosa: I agree with Beathan
Sudane Erato: just let people help!
Shep (shep.titian): Calli?
Beathan Vale: people can help — privately — even informally – -just not officially through multiple offices
Shep (shep.titian): They can Sudane
Callipygian Christensen: as an observation, and I think this is one of the challenges Trebor is trying to address –
Sudane Erato: that’s not clear to me from this discussion
Callipygian Christensen: if it is someones *duty* to do something they are more likely to do it, show up..whatever..
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Sadly that has’nt proven the case tho
Callipygian Christensen: if people are volunteering in the ‘oh I can help with that’ methodology, they are more likely to have othr things distract or delay
Shep (shep.titian): After Calli .. Razzy
Callipygian Christensen: I did say ‘more’ not ‘will’
Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
Rosie Gray raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: My point is that I think Trebor is just trying to have a higher level of committment in place than ‘oh sure, I can ahlep out with that’
Callipygian Christensen: done
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Shep…
Shep (shep.titian): After Calli Razzy Daniel the Rosie
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): My observation is that there is a lot to be done. I have often complained about different things… outdated signs left up, or signs for parcel sales that arent really for sale etc….
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): there seems like a lot of work to do, and I wonder if it isn’t true that perhaps all the people who are ready to dedicate such time to helping are already holding positions… are there enough interested parties left outside of those holding a position? done
Shep (shep.titian): Fair point
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel?
Daniel Sosa: I would have to agree with Beathan on his point of better recruitment
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Rosie
Daniel Sosa: if the point is to get more citizens involved then there has to be a way to communicate to the citizens on the duties at hand
Rosie Gray waits to see if Daniel is finished
Callipygian Christensen coughs – recruitment isnt the problem, it’s participation
Daniel Sosa: maybe the duties outlined in those positions are too much to ask of one individual
Daniel Sosa: maybe break those up into manageable things or repsonsibilities and maybe other in CDS would come forward
Daniel Sosa: recruitment is the key I believe0–Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
Daniel Sosa: Well Calli poarticipaino requires recruitment
josjoha is Online
Rosie Gray: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Passes Calli as cough sweet
Daniel Sosa: cough
Rosie Gray: done, Daniel?
Shep (shep.titian): Tsk
Callipygian Christensen grins andslaps her own hand
Daniel Sosa: yes now I am after clearing throat
Daniel Sosa: hehehe
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Rosie Gray: okay, thanks
Shep (shep.titian): You’ve started Trebor now
Rosie Gray: my opinion is that there are a lot of good points being made
Shep (shep.titian):
Rosie Gray: but fundamentally I agree that the people interested in committing their efforts
Rosie Gray: are probably doing so already
Beathan Vale: I must note that I think Trebor has made strong efforts at recruitment — maybe if he repeats those efforts he will get better results, but I am skeptical. I think that thee real problem might be that we are trying to do too much
Rosie Gray: and I do think that unless it is considered a ‘duty’, people will find other more important things to do
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Online
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Rosie Gray: but also, those positions do seem to have a LOT of reponsibilities, so it can appear overwhelming
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Offline
Rosie Gray: so, perhaps some kind of compromise would work
Rosie Gray: done
Shep (shep.titian): I disagree Rosie .. I think if they have a huge list of must do’s they’ll run a mile
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Online
Rosie Gray: that’s basically what I said, Shehp
Trebor Warcliffe looking for his running shoes, nope no where to be found
Shep (shep.titian): Maybe people work both ways .. what does for one etc etc
Rosie Gray: if the list is too imposing, people don’t want to commit
Daniel Sosa: I have located mine but still holding off putting them on
Rosie Gray: unless they are the type that are already doing a lot
Sudane Erato:
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
Trebor Warcliffe: Give me those shoes Daniel, you can’t run yet, I’ve got plans for you.
Rosie Gray: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok Calli had her hand raised
Daniel Sosa: ahhhh agenda within agendas not good for the executive office
Shep (shep.titian): I do help in ways other than RA .. I enjoy it .. but I don’t want a ‘job’
Rosie Gray: yes, see
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli
Rosie Gray:
Trebor Warcliffe: I have a possible compromise but I want to hear Calli first before I counter
Callipygian Christensen: Those positions DO seem large, and in the absence of people IN them the Chancellor be defaultis expected to peform them. The trend ahs been to sugggest more and more responsibilites handed to the Executive, but ti’s rather foolish to put barriers in the way to sharing the load. No one will want to be Chancellor if they see the size of the task. As for recruitment vs participation, with respect Daniel, Trebor has announced, pleaded and I amsureIve seen him on his kneews begging
Trebor Warcliffe: ROFLMO
Shep (shep.titian): pmsl
Callipygian Christensen: and still positions and tasks have had no takers.
Trebor Warcliffe dustes the soil from my knees
Shep (shep.titian): On your Knees man!!
Daniel Sosa: then maybe it is a lost cause–sorry to say
Trebor Warcliffe: Its not a lost cause
Trebor Warcliffe: there is hope
Rosie Gray: lol
Shep (shep.titian): Or was that wrong window!
Callipygian Christensen: In reality we have a far smaller *active* citizenry that the list suggests
Trebor Warcliffe: Very true calli
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok if everyone is done I’d like to present my counter and possible compromise
Shep (shep.titian): Gop ahead Trebor
Rosie Gray agrees with Calli that Trebor has tried very hard to get more involvement from the citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: First point
Callipygian Christensen: So I am saying that if Trebor or any future chancellor is losig things in the cracks because those position are not filled and volunteers are not following through..lets not get out the pitchforks
Callipygian Christensen: done
Trebor Warcliffe: Recruitment isnt the issue as some here have confirmed I have literally begged for help
Trebor Warcliffe: Participation is a big issue. I as well as others understand everyones SL adn CDS time is limited.
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan’s comment about having to many irons in the fire really doesnt apply either
Trebor Warcliffe: I held one MAIN event
Trebor Warcliffe: thsi past term on one day
Trebor Warcliffe: and the help I recieved was minimal at best though I am very grateful for the help I did receive
Trebor Warcliffe: The problem that I see with my proposal is the official titles attached to the “civil service positions”
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like to make use of Cindy’s suggestion in the forums
Beathan Vale: I wasn’t speaking of the number of events — if the duties are too heavy for the Chancellor to perform with the help he can get — we need to reduce them — not merely the number of events, but the general tasks
Trebor Warcliffe: You cant reduce the tasks Beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: If you do teh community suffers
Trebor Warcliffe: Think about it
Trebor Warcliffe: Have we had an event since February?
Trebor Warcliffe: Besides the one Shep hosted?
Trebor Warcliffe: No
Trebor Warcliffe: Why?
Beathan Vale: or at least prioritize them — I don’t agree, Trebor — and no one has really scrutinized that issue
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): I’d like to sit down with you in a s,mall group to discuss the duties
Trebor Warcliffe: Because I had no one to help with them and I wasnt doing them myself again
Derrek Scatter is Online
Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
Rosie Gray: thank you Shep…
Rosie Gray: I think that the list of duties for one of the proposed positions are so overwhelming that it looks like a full time job
Rosie Gray: if you are a person that takes it seriously, you may not want to commit to so much
Shep (shep.titian): I agree Rosie
Rosie Gray: there are a lot of practical maintenance tasks that the Chancellor has to do
Trebor Warcliffe: The job description for PIO was cut in half
Rosie Gray: that is not really seen by many people, if they are done
Trebor Warcliffe: very true Rosie
Rosie Gray: so there are many many things that need to be done, and by restricting the participants
Rosie Gray: based on them already being active in the group, just doesn’t make sense to me
Rosie Gray: done
Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I’d like to present my compormise if I may
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Rosie
Shep (shep.titian): I’m NOT against any of us helping with things I’m against being in two branches of government
Trebor Warcliffe: I will say that I have had a few of our citizens, Razzy, Bags, Dee, Tan,and Daniel to name a few that have approached me to volunteer their time and services on little thingsav
Trebor Warcliffe: Cindy
Trebor Warcliffe: In the forums
Taylee Helix is Offline
ElanCreations is Online
Trebor Warcliffe: Why not take the various duties and allow an individual no matter who they are to help out with that particular duty
Trebor Warcliffe: For example
Trebor Warcliffe: Tan has volunteered to assist me with the Availabel Land for Sale posting and all the work that goes into that
Trebor Warcliffe: Now for arguments sake
Trebor Warcliffe: If Tan was on the RA would she still be allowed ot help the Chancellor with thsi one task or are we goign to cal that a conflcit of interest also?
Trebor Warcliffe: Razzy has some great ideas to help with some of the PIO duties.
Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Trebor this is’nt against helping
Shep (shep.titian): Its against job titles
Trebor Warcliffe: I understand that
Sudane Erato: helping is the issue
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
Scarlet Chandrayaan is Offline
Trebor Warcliffe: Hold on Shep Im not done yet
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry
Beathan Vale: anyone can volunteer informally for anything — we are loose that way — but it is holding multiple offices (official position) in multiple branches that is the problem
Shep (shep.titian): Exactly Beathan
Trebor Warcliffe: It is about helping. If I eliminate “Titles” and “Official Positions” but SC members and RA members are performing some of these tasks is their going to be problems for me or any other Chancellor
Shep (shep.titian): No
Rosie Gray: there may be, as far as ‘committment’
Dee Shepherd is Online
Trebor Warcliffe: I’m referring to the “you cant do that attitude”
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
Rosie Gray raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Razzy after Daniel
Shep (shep.titian): Then Rosie
Trebor Warcliffe: Basically what is being done than is we are eliminating civiil service positions and whoever wants to help with whatever tasks available
Trebor Warcliffe: can
Trebor Warcliffe: Correct?
Shep (shep.titian): Can someone speak Treb?
Beathan Vale: Trebor — NO
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
Rosie Gray: lol
Daniel Sosa: I withdraw my reason to speak since Trebor has eloquently stated what I was going to say
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Shep Im done for the moment
Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
Beathan Vale: it would be best to have such positions and to fillthem with people who are committed to those offices — but not serving in other branches
Shep (shep.titian): ok Razzy
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Shep…
Beathan Vale: However, to the extent a task needs volunteer help,anyone can volunteer
Trebor Warcliffe: Can I respond to Beathan Shep or shall I wait?
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): without a title or certain listed ‘duties’ I think that the ‘helping out’ will fall apart.
Shep (shep.titian): Wait please
Rosie Gray nods
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 1) People take a task more seriously if it is a designated duty-postion held
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 2) things break down when people aren’t sure who to go to for whatever needs to be done because everything is so casual.
Beathan Vale: Can we vote on this — we are going in circles and there are other important agenda items
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 3) the idea of getting non-position holding people to do it is good, but realistically there arent many available.
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): and there is a lot of stuff to be done that can’t just be eliminated due to lack of people. done
Shep (shep.titian): Trebor do you want to formally propose?
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Rosie Gray: ahem
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Rosie
Rosie Gray: thank you,
Rosie Gray: I jsut wanted to point out that in my proposal further down in the Agenda…
Rosie Gray: part of it would be a huge assistance to the Chancellor
Rosie Gray: so making some of the duties lighter, in regards to covenant enforcement
Rosie Gray: done
Cranston Yordstorm is Offline
Shep (shep.titian): I feel we need to come back to this myself .. but if you want a formal vote Trebor please propose
Trebor Warcliffe: No. Here is what I will do this term.
Trebor Warcliffe: If I have someone available to fill an “official” position that isnt on teh RA or the SC
Trebor Warcliffe: than I will give them that position
Trebor Warcliffe: If I am unable to find someone to fill a position than I will address each duty of that position on an individual basis and will accept help from whoever wants to work on one or two of the duties, RA or SC member or not. Fair enough?
Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
Shep (shep.titian): Very fair Trebor .. I can support that 100%
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan???
Trebor Warcliffe cant tell if Beathan is typing or not
Beathan Vale: I really have to see how Iit plays out in practice before I can say that I think it is good — if work gets done without powers piling up in one or two hands — I’m fine with it — but if someone becomes some kind of superofficial as a result, I will have concerns
Shep (shep.titian): But for now we are done
Trebor Warcliffe: fair enough, though I doubt Ill have powers piling up in one or two hands LOL
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Have you made any progress reaching out to the educators in SL?
Shep (shep.titian): Ok next and I shou;ld have said already .. both Pat and nna request a 7 day vote
Shep (shep.titian): Anna
Shep (shep.titian): Next constitutional reform of the SC
Beathan Vale: On that note — I have confirmed that we can broadcast “Great Courses” classes in video form if (1) we or one of of us bought and owns tthe course and (2) we don’t charge — that might just be a matter of technical video streaming
Shep (shep.titian): I’m assuming you want the floor Calli .. are you happy with the same way?
Beathan Vale: and I have quite of few of those — from “The Teaching Company”
Beathan Vale: Calli has asked me to formally propose that matter for debate — and I do
Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent Beathan my email is twarcliffe@gmail.com please emailme the details and we’ll egt moving on it
Beathan Vale: I have a few words on it
Shep (shep.titian): OPk Beathan go ahead
Shep (shep.titian): ok
ElanCreations is Offline
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
Shep (shep.titian): I’ll second
Soro Dagostino: I’d like to make sure its properly before the Body
Rosie Gray dosn’t recall hearing a motion
Soro Dagostino: TYVM
Trebor Warcliffe: RL calls, have to go. Everyone support Rosie’s agenda please
Trebor Warcliffe is Offline
Beathan Vale: the proposal we have is a difficult compromise to address issues with the SC — both as to the workings of the SC and to its relationship with outher branches of government. I have reservations and concerns with the proposal — but nothing that disqualifies it as something to try. It has been a long process — with Delia, Shep and Calli playing primary roles and doing a lot of very hard and trying work — the result is imperdect and may need further reforms and also leaves some questions unresolved (through silence) because no consensus could be approached, let alone reached …
Beathan Vale: done
Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Beathan . I remove myself from the hard work .. I just stuck my nose in
Beathan Vale: lol
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro
Soro Dagostino: Many moons ago, I asked Calli and Delia to lead the investigation into the reforms. They have done an execellent job.
Soro Dagostino: I urge the passage of the compromise presentation.
Soro Dagostino: done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Calli
Callipygian Christensen: As Beathan noted, this represents compromise – often necessary in this sort of thing, but seldom welcome – but it is a positive step forward to have reached agreement on what is before you and it will allow the SC to start reform of its procedures as well.
Callipygian Christensen: We will be asking the incoming RA to allow the committee to continue disucssions, but I express here that the SC supports the Act and the amendment
Callipygian Christensen: and I would like to say that Pat, Beathan, Sudane and Delia have made this a far less contentious issue than it might hae been..thank them for that
Callipygian Christensen: Done
Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Delia .. I note from the forum that you mat have an issue?
Shep (shep.titian): may
Delia Lake: Shep, we have resolved it for now
Delia Lake: ty for asking
Callipygian Christensen: The text of the amendmentwas edited to address Pat and Delia’s concerns
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. well this all seems less fraught than I expected
Sudane Erato: shocking for the CDS
Shep (shep.titian): Ah ok lovely ..
Rosie Gray: hehehe
Shep (shep.titian): lol
Shep (shep.titian): well Bethan
Daniel Sosa: changing the constitution easier than volunteer positions
Daniel Sosa: interesting
Beathan Vale: angst behind the scenes can produce good results in public
Sudane Erato:
Shep (shep.titian): Its in the work done before Daniel
Rosie Gray: indeed
Shep (shep.titian): Hours opf it
Beathan Vale: Daniel — it only looks that way — we’ve been struggling with this for the last 6-8 months
Callipygian Christensen: (we wont tell them Pat isnt here because he’s tied up in the shed in CN)
Rosie Gray: rofl
Sudane Erato: lol ))
Delia Lake: lol
Daniel Sosa: lol
Shep (shep.titian): OK well do you want a vote Beathan lol
Soro Dagostino: LOLLOLOLLL
Callipygian Christensen: This requires two vots madame Chair
Shep (shep.titian): Ok
Beathan Vale: I call for a vote — I think that there are two matters — so Act first
Beathan Vale: Amendment second
Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. A vote on the act
Callipygian Christensen: would you like the text posted here or just the URL?
Callipygian Christensen: text might be best for the transcript?
Shep (shep.titian): Go for the text
Callipygian Christensen: Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act

Preamble

This Act clarifies the way in which the Representative Assembly will provide a vote of confidence on candidates to the Scientific Council. The intention is that the SC, candidates for the SC and the RA will work together cooperatively to interview candidate SC members at the earliest opportunity and affirm (or deny) the appointment.

NL 4-8 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act is repealed.

When a vacancy occurs on the SC, the Chair will announce that a vacancy is pending in the Forums and CDS group notices, and will specify a timeframe for external nominations to be submitted. Any citizen may put their own name forward for consideration, or may nominate any other citizen. The Chair and other members of the SC may also identify suitable nominees.

The SC will review all nominations to ensure that nominees meet the posted qualifications for SC membership.
All nominees with the required qualifications will be interviewed by the SC and will
Callipygian Christensen: be accepted as an SC candidate by a simple majority vote.

In the event of multiple candidates, the candidate put forward to the RA will be selected by a blind draw. The Chair of the SC will provide the LRA with the name of the candidate within 24 hours of the vote or of the blind draw.

The LRA will invite the candidate to appear at the next meeting of the RA to be interviewed in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the Constitution, and to receive a vote of confidence from the RA. RA members are expected to consider any candidate based on their ability to perform the duties of an SC member, not on any personal friendship or enmity. RA members will give a brief rationale for their vote and the candidate will be considered confirmed by a simple majority.

If the candidate is unable to attend the next meeting of the RA he or she will provide the LRA with a selection of dates and times that they are available to attend a future RA meeting, and both the candidate and the LRA will make every effort to schedule the candidateâ€™s appearance as soon as possible.

If the candidate fails to appear at the nex
Callipygian Christensen: o schedule the candidateâ€™s appearance as soon as possible.

If the candidate fails to appear at the next RA meeting, or a meeting held on an agreed date and time within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved their candidacy, their candidacy will be considered withdrawn. If the RA, due to its own failure to be quorate or to hold a meeting on an agreed date and time to interview the candidate, fails to interview the candidate at a public RA meeting, within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved the candidacy, the candidate will be considered confirmed.

During the 60 day period, or until the RA vote of confidence is held, the candidate will attend SC meetings and will be permitted to contribute their opinions and expertise, but will not be permitted to vote.
Beathan Vale: I move for a vote on the new Act
Rosie Gray: seconded
Shep (shep.titian): I second
Shep (shep.titian): and vote Aye
Beathan Vale: Aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep (shep.titian): we hjave to wait for the 7 day votes I bellieve to reach majority
Beathan Vale: No — I think the Act passes now — but the Amendment can’t
Shep (shep.titian): Ah ok sorry still in L plates
Beathan Vale: until the 7 day votes come in
Callipygian Christensen agrees with Beathan
Shep (shep.titian): The act passes .. well done all
Rosie Gray: Â·Â·â€¢Â°â€¢Â·Â·..â˜º Applauds! â˜º ..Â·Â·â€¢Â°â€¢Â·Â·..
Daniel Sosa: well done group
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Beathan next?
Rosie Gray commends all the work that went into this
Beathan Vale: OK — Callli can you post the Amendment next
Shep (shep.titian): Yes well done for not coming to blows
Beathan Vale: I only wish that were true
Shep (shep.titian): Ah .. hiding bruises Beathan lol
Callipygian Christensen: ok, large block of text coming
Beathan Vale: We jsut keep our blows in private, Unlike the Unkrainian parliament
Sudane Erato: hehe
Callipygian Christensen: Article 111 of the Constitution is replaced with the following:
Shep (shep.titian): Lol .. that was so funny
Callipygian Christensen: make that III
Callipygian Christensen: Article III â€“ The Philosophic Branch

Section 1 â€“ The Scientific Council

The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy.
The specific role of the SC is to hold all branches of government true to the Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the CDS Code of Laws and the SL ToS.

The SC carries out its role by performing the following services:

-Review of all laws and amendments to the Constitution to ensure that such laws or amendments do not contravene the Constitution, the founding documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the CDS Code of Laws and the SL ToS

-Act as a neutral body to resolve disputes between citizens and their government, by hearing appeals from citizens that challenge the decisions or actions of the RA or any member of the Executive, in carrying out their duties as defined by the Laws and Constitution of the CDS.

-Administer the CDS election process by accepting and publicizing the names of candidates, hearing challenges to the official Ci
Callipygian Christensen: hment of members of the Representative branch for violating the constitution or acting illegally.

The SC may review the outcome of any judicial decision or executive action and may invalidate any such decision or action if it is in violation of any of the founding or constitutional documents, the Code of Laws or the UDHR.â€¨

Section 7 â€“ Hearings and Trials
All impeachment hearings will be performed by the full Scientific Council . If a a member of the SC is accused, that member will be excused for the duration of the hearing. A member of the branch of government that is not calling for the impeachment hearing will serve as Chair of the SC during the hearing.

Section 8 â€“ Limitations of the SC

Any member can be removed with a 2/3 majority vote of the SC.
Callipygian Christensen: tizens List or List of Candidates, submitting the official Lists of Candidates and Citizens to the manager of the election software, placing and removing the polling stations at the designated locations and times, receiving and ratifying the results of the election and publicizing these results.

-Moderate the CDS Forums to ensure that content meets the ToS of the Forums.

Section 2 â€“ The Scientific Council Body

The Scientific Council shall regularly consist of 5 members, all of equal standing and holding a single vote. SC members will be selected based on demonstrated skill and desire to uphold the constitution without bias and will serve for a term of up to 3 years, excluding any time the member is inactive due to a requested leave of absence. The Chair of the SC may, at his or her discretion nominate additional members , to a maximum of 7, to accommodate requested leaves of absence of sitting SC members.

Section 3 â€“ The Scientific Council Chair

The SC shall elect one member to act as Chair by simple majority vote. Election of the Chair will take place once per year, in July.

Section 4 â€“ Proce
Callipygian Christensen: simple majority vote. Election of the Chair will take place once per year, in July.

Section 4 â€“ Proceedings

The SC will convene at least once per month. The SC may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior and with the concurrence of two-thirds expel a member from a session.

Section 5 â€“ Journal

The SC shall keep and publish a journal of its proceedings in the form of a transcript. All individual votes of the members of the SC on any question shall always be included, along with a statement regarding their personal philosophy on a given vote.

Section 6 â€“ Powers of the SC

Members of the SC shall ratify bills passed by the Representative Assembly by simple majority vote.

The SC may veto or resubmit a bill or constitutional amendment if it is in violation of any of the founding or constitutional documents, the Code of Laws or the UDHR.â€¨

The Scientific Council may veto a revenue bill or resubmit a modified revenue bill for vote.

The SC may seek impeachment of members of the Representative branch for violating the constitution or acting illegally.

The SC
Callipygian Christensen throws a shoe at Beathan to signify she is done posting text
Beathan Vale: I move for a vote on the Amendment — after sufficient time for people to read this
Shep (shep.titian): Lol he’s typing
Rosie Gray: so seconded
Shep (shep.titian): Vote
Shep (shep.titian): I vote Aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Rosie Gray: woo
Shep (shep.titian): Ok this time we do have to wait for 7 day votes .. but again thabks for the work
Rosie Gray:
Shep (shep.titian): And I’m sure we can assume it’s going to pass
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep (shep.titian): Soro
Rosie Gray: lol
Soro Dagostino: Is a “woo” an “aye” in this land?
Rosie Gray: there was an ‘aye’, before the ‘woo’
Shep (shep.titian): There was an aye before the woo
Soro Dagostino: k
Shep (shep.titian): spooky
Rosie Gray: the woo was an exclamation point
Rosie Gray: heeh
Soro Dagostino: Congratulations all.
Beathan Vale: Aye Wu — I think I knew someone named that once.
Shep (shep.titian): Ok next .. Rosie are you happy to discuss first?
Rosie Gray: yes thanks Shep
Rosie Gray: I think I have given out a notecard to everyone here, re my proposal for a new builder’s guild
Rosie Gray: please tell me if you haven’t received it
Shep (shep.titian): Ay Wu Wu is a chinese artist .. I probably spelled it wrong
Rosie Gray: nobody doesn’t have it? okay good
Shep (shep.titian): Apologies for that Rosie .. my net went down until just before the meeting
Callipygian Christensen: I dont seem to..I think SLate it
Rosie Gray: okay I’ll post it in chat, for the record
Rosie Gray: I would like to put forth a proposal for consideration, to create a new NGO Builder’s Guild.

Since the current New Guild has been inactive and basically dysfunctional for some time now, I see this as an opportunity to create something new that is more streamlined, less ambitious and more workable for the CDS as it is now.

Here’s an outline:

Name: Guild of CDS Builders (or something else a little catchier) ã‹¡

Membership:
* Create an SL group that citizens will need to join to be members of the guild. (This to get away from the current non-system of whoever shows up is a member.)
* Members must be CDS citizens in good standing, to join the guild.
* Replace the ‘Secretary’ with ‘Executive Director’, which is the current standard for not-for-profit societies, and have a Chairperson, Treasurer, and Recording Secretary all elected from the membership.
* Explore the idea of titles and levels for the group, in the tradition of apprentice, craftsman, journeymen, and master crafts
Rosie Gray: and master craftsman. The more accomplished builders aiding the others to become better builders.
* First purpose of the guild would be to create content and sim development for the CDS, as requested by the government.
* Second purpose of the guild would be to inspect new citizen buildings and notify the Chancellor if they are outside of compliance. Also, to assist citizens in making their buildings comply with covenants (and ensure that trees do not float, roofs fit, and realism is achieved to a reasonable level). I think the guild could be the first (and best-case scenarios the only required) step for covenant monitoring.
* To help pay for the guild tiers, and for ongoing services rendered, a monthly government stipend
* Large scale development reimbursements to be negotiated between individual builders and the government, but with the oversight of the guild as a whole. This last to ensure quality control as well as helping to spread the potential work around within the guild creato
Daniel Sosa: I have to go to RL
Daniel Sosa: sorry Rosie I wont be able to stay
Daniel Sosa: good luck
Daniel Sosa: bye all
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Daniel
Shep (shep.titian): Ok Danile .. thanks for coming
Lilith Ivory: bye Daniel
Rosie Gray: This last to ensure quality control as well as helping to spread the potential work around within the guild creators, according to their skill levels and interest.

All of this would need refining, but I would urge that the guild by-laws and charter be as straightforward as possible, keeping it’s scale suitable to the modest number of active citizens in the CDS now. Let’s keep it to a practical level, and let people who enjoy content creation have fun with it.
Shep (shep.titian): lol Daniel
Rosie Gray: that’s the full text
Rosie Gray: bye Daniel
Daniel Sosa is Offline
Rosie Gray: further to this
Rosie Gray: I would like to propose that the RA assign someone to call a first meeting to start the ball rolling
Shep (shep.titian): I will do that .. and suggest you might like to do that Rosie
Rosie Gray: I could, since this is my last meeting on the RA
Shep (shep.titian): Exactly
Treacle (treacle.darlandes) is Online
Rosie Gray: if others agree… or someone else could
Pip Torok is Online
Rosie Gray: I see this proposal as a draft idea and that the new group would hammer out the details
Shep (shep.titian): I propose Rosie Grey call a meeting to form a group to discuss the forming of as Builders Guild
Shep (shep.titian): Beathan feel like seconding?
Beathan Vale: second
Shep (shep.titian): thank you .. and vote .. Aye
Rosie Gray: thank you
Rosie Gray: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep (shep.titian): Cool …
Rosie Gray: hi Pip
Shep (shep.titian): Hi Pip
Lilith Ivory: hi Pip
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) waves at Pip
Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
Pip Torok: hi Rosie hi everyone
Delia Lake: hi Pip
Shep (shep.titian): Ok well so carried .. Rosie please set that up at your convienience
Rosie Gray: thank all, I will ã‹¡
Shep (shep.titian): Ok I don’t think we have any commission reports
Soro Dagostino: Excuse me, RL calls.
Callipygian Christensen: be Soro
Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Soro
Callipygian Christensen: bye too lol
Lilith Ivory: bye Soro
Shep (shep.titian): And as the Executive has disappeared no exec report
Soro Dagostino: Bye all
Rosie Gray: bye Soro
Shep (shep.titian): Bye
Pip Torok: hello goodbye Soro
Shep (shep.titian): Anyone with annoucements
Rosie Gray: not me
Shep (shep.titian): Ok
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Shep (shep.titian): Next RA meeting .. Beathan Pip and Razzy .. Trbor wants us to hold one next Saturday .. is that ok??
Beathan Vale: should be
Pip Torok: for me yes …
Sudane Erato: next Sat is June, no?
Shep (shep.titian): He plans on following it with the Ball
Callipygian Christensen coughs
Sudane Erato: isn’t that the next RA?
Shep (shep.titian): It is yes Sudane
Sudane Erato: ok
Razzy (moonrise.azalee) waits to hear from Calli
Shep (shep.titian): Yes but we;re here
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand a little higher
Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli
Callipygian Christensen: Since the swearing in of the 17th RA is immediately after this, with the election of the LRA to happen immediatley, it would be appropriate for the LRA to call for the next meeting date after everyone is sworn in
Pip Torok: agrees
Shep (shep.titian): ok fair enough
Rosie Gray winks
Shep (shep.titian): Then we wrap up this RA as far as meetings go .. I want to say its been a blast .. IO’ve enjoyed working with all of you
Flower Garside (hakimba.firehawk) is Offline
Sudane Erato: yay!… ty all
Shep (shep.titian): Adjourn

Permalink.

13th Representative Assembly (16)

RA meeting June 1, 2010

Transcript from the RA meeting, June 1, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:41 pm
[12:10] Delia Lake: well, we have all the new representatives here
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good evening and Welcome Mathiew
[12:10] Solomon Mosely: touch anything
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Stui and Cindy!
[12:10] Rose Springvale: sign records without touch apparently
[12:10] Cindy Ecksol: may have to multitask….
[12:10] DavidJrDotCom Asp: hi everyone
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: thank you stui
[12:10] fig whispers: Greeting Arias .
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a new face in the crowd !
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and color codes for posting
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: yeahhhhhh
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: yea!
[12:11] Rose Springvale: so do we begin?
[12:11] Delia Lake: yes
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: ok, 15 after
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: who’s driving?
[12:11] Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are you sitting comfortably ?
[12:11] Delia Lake: i will start
[12:11] Rose Springvale: Delia, do you want to administer the oath?
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then I’ll Begin
[12:11] Cindy Ecksol: recorder will record and send a transcript to me now…
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is anyone sitting here ?
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: not yethehe
[12:12] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I congratulate each and everyone of you on your election as representative in the 13th term of the CDS RA
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol: go ahead, stui, try ti out
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll test it
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe AP left a booby trap
[12:12] Delia Lake: The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state. One of the freedoms embodied in our Constitution is that of religious choice as specified in one of its Founding Documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
[12:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *counts to ten*
[12:13] Delia Lake: i have passed to each of you a copy of the RA Affirmation of Office
[12:13] Delia Lake: Out of our respect for diverse religious beliefs about taking oaths as well as for RA members who may be non-religious, the following affirmation does not contain any referrences to any supernatural entities.
[12:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: other than me eh Dee Dee
[12:14] Delia Lake: However, anyone taking office who may wish to do so may add the words “So help me God” [or any other entity] at the end, if they wish so. They may also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I do it first ?
[12:15] Delia Lake: if you would please, each insert your own name into the NAME space of the affirmation, and enter your affirmation into the chat for the log.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I go first ?
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: lol Stui, hurry then! :p
[12:15] Delia Lake: so long as we get everyone
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: /afk
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I am ready
[12:16] Pip Torok: (the first will be last and the last will be first
[12:16] Rose Springvale: we are waiting for you stui
[12:16] Delia Lake: and as quickly as possible
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I think my copy is incomplete
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Dee Dee can you resend it ?
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:16] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I, muhammedyussif Wikinger, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. so help me God
[12:16] Rose Springvale: sorry stui, too slow
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, your chance is lost, Stui
[12:16] Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: I, Lilith Ivory, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I Tor Karlsvalt, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I had to delay somehow – it’s my trait *LOL*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Rose Springvale: I, Rose Springvale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Timo Gufler: I, Timo Gufler, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I, StuiChicanne Darkstone (Stui), having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
So help me Patty !
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: @ Stui… heh
[12:17] Solomon Mosely: I, Solomon Mosely, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty loves me
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: deep down inside
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we’re managing to crash all devices around us…
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[12:18] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker asks himself: is crashing contageous?
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not, mathiew
[12:18] Delia Lake: many people have been crashing today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: ok, sorry…I’m back
[12:18] Solomon Mosely: oh, having a storm here, always knocks my connection wonky
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: me to Mat
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: client in crisis
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker: wear your masks!
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker thinks he is really contageous
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my. We’re having an agitated meeting.
[12:19] Delia Lake: lol
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m wearing my safety unders
[12:19] Delia Lake: we are missing Cindy
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anti crash unders
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy Doody !
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker: lol
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: ok, back again….
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s your turn
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: sorry….
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: phone won’t stop ringing
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: your turn to swear
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Cindy
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we are missing Kas
[12:19] Timo Gufler: turn it off
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: card?
[12:19] Delia Lake: oops yes
[12:19] Delia Lake: lost Kas
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: let´s swear now and be nice the rest of the term
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can teach Cindy to swear
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui lol
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: second for lillith
[12:20] Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll just try her patience a bit
[12:20] fig whispers: Noticed Arria
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: esp. if she is chancellor
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[12:21] Delia Lake: we are stil missing Kas
[12:21] Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui — I SOOOO appreciate your support!
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can put on a ladies voice
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: she isn’t even on yet
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll pretend to be Kas
[12:21] Delia Lake: no
[12:21] Delia Lake: and no )
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: she seemes to be crashed
[12:21] Solomon Mosely: ok, well, 10/13, can we still elect lra?
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can be Lady G
[12:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: You’ve been a very bad girl, a very very bad BAD girl, gaga!
[12:22] Patroklus Murakami: kas will get a 7-day vote if she is not able to come back
[12:22] Delia Lake: this as you know is the first RA under new rules where Factions are not the organizing groups
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: ah
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: wb Kas
[12:22] Rose Springvale: yay Kas!
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Kas
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: thanks –
[12:22] Delia Lake: in the past there has been a LRA previous to the first RA meeting of a new term
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: my apologies, I had to reboot my router
[12:22] fig whispers: Greeting CDS_NewPraetorium_l.
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s ok Kas I offered to put on my lady voice
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: lol! thanks, Stui!
[12:23] Delia Lake: as soon as Kas has rezzed and taken her affirmation
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Notecard .
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: I, Kaseido Quandry, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:23] Delia Lake: ty Kas
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go — congrats to all new RA members for the 13th term!
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Cindy .
[12:23] Delia Lake: we have now officially constituted the 13th RA
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes congratulation , all
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting StuiChicanne .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry cheers, in a glowing, cloud-like way
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oooh who is fig ?
[12:24] Patroklus Murakami: 13…. hmmmm!
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh it’s sol’s dog
[12:24] Solomon Mosely: your new master stui
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lucky number
[12:24] Arria Perreault: 13 for the 13th RA
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting Patroklus .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry giggles
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How more lucky can we get?
[12:24] Delia Lake: so my duties are over, and you all may now self organize to elect your LRA for this term
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll last until 2013, I’m sure
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: i bet stu knows
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you were blessed when I walked in
[12:25] Rose Springvale: smiles. and
[12:25] Rose Springvale: if we are lucky and efficient
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Who is the 13th
[12:25] Rose Springvale: 13 meetings
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to do more, but that’s for the next RA meeting…
[12:25] Rose Springvale: okay, i am going to just ask for nominations for LRA…
[12:25] Kaseido Quandry: I nominate Rose Springvale for LRA
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … to discuss
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: a little alchemy and we make 13 a good number
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: me i think
[12:25] Rose Springvale: so we aren’t stalled
[12:25] Patroklus Murakami: i nominate arria perreault for LRA
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second
[12:26] Pip Torok: I nominate arria Perrault
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second Rosy !
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Pip
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds either Pat or Pip (same nomination!)
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: I second Rose
[12:26] Rose Springvale: lol
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:26] Rose Springvale: other nominations?
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: call for vote
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Arria (I meant)
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t all rush to nominate me
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: hold on
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: ummm…discussion?
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: could we ask the candidtes qns before we vote?
[12:27] Pip Torok: we need a discussion …
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: note that Rose got 22 votes in the last election for first pref
[12:27] Rose Springvale: why?
[12:27] Rose Springvale: we have never before
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:27] Rose Springvale: this isn’t chancellor
[12:27] Lilith Ivory agrees with Tor
[12:27] Pip Torok: whats that to do with it Tor?
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: we never had an election for LRA before rose
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, we’ve never ELECTED a LRA before
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: so we never had a chance
[12:27] Arria Perreault: this is the first election of an LRA, Rose
[12:27] Rose Springvale: i’m aware of that
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I am ready to answer questions
[12:27] Solomon Mosely: fig come
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we did elect one… as a replacement once
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: could delia continue to chair until we have an LRA elected?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: sure, want to start with statements?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: so this does not become a free-for-all
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s a good idea, Pat I second that
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea Pat
[12:28] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith
[12:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: hasn’t an RA member who’s been elected with the most votes got the support of the citizens and so therefore has the greater right to be here than our choice as the elected body ?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: no stui. thats not how it works
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: no, stui, the new law does not state that.
[12:28] Rose Springvale: its okayu stui, lets just do it
[12:28] Pip Torok: not in th constitution Stui
[12:28] Delia Lake: the new law does not specify
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: we have to make it up as we go along
[12:29] Arria Perreault: it was the former law
[12:29] Solomon Mosely: that logic held when parties ruled, but not now ffor some reason
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I hope we stick to the constitution this term
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: NO but I think that should be considered.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: okay, i’m prepared for questions. go for it
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol notes that it had no logic previously…but it was the law
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I thought the mandate of the citizenship would be sufficient… *LOL*
[12:29] Rose Springvale: but lets keep it to 15 minutes okay?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could have candidate statements and then questions?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: short statements?
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t think we were higher than they are
[12:29] Pip Torok: second pats suggestion
[12:29] Delia Lake: we have 2 nominees for LRA, Rose and Arria
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sounds reasonable — a short statement would be fine
[12:30] Rose Springvale: arria, go ahead, i’m sure you are prepared
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria shoiuld go first as she is the last LRA, or have the option
[12:30] Arria Perreault: let’s say we take the alphabetical order …
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: holy cow
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: first or last name….?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I am running for the position of LRA. I had this position for one term already.
[12:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sol… Rl Name or SL name ?
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: heh
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I think I am able to take in account the proposals of the different members of the RA and of the citizen to set the agenda and to manage the debates.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: during my term, the agenda was open to everyone who had a proposal, which seems to me important in democracy
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Because of her/his tasks in this Assembly, the LRA has a duty of neutrality.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I think it will important during this term to have someone able to be neutral to manage this assembly
[12:33] Arria Perreault: it is not the main task of the LRA to develop projects
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I think also that it isimportant to avoid conflicts of interest
[12:33] Arria Perreault: as you know, I have no interest in Al-ANdalus
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: isn’t that the truth
[12:34] Solomon Mosely: no kidding
[12:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at least we aren’t dressing it up
[12:34] Arria Perreault: I consider I can manage the different debates we will have, especially about the agreement between CDS and the owner of AA
[12:35] Patroklus Murakami notes that ‘no interest in’ has a number of meanings which people who speak english as a second language might not be aware of
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed
[12:35] Arria Perreault: we should have serene debates about this question and other
[12:35] Arria Perreault: That’s why I believe I can manage this task during this term.
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol scratches her head wondering whether a “serene debate” would be any fun…..
[12:36] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria!
[12:36] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[12:36] Pip Torok: claps
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: haha cindy
[12:36] Rose Springvale: shall i go or shall arria take questions first?
[12:36] mathiew Glenwalker: claps too
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol claps
[12:36] Timo Gufler claps
[12:36] Pip Torok: suggest arria takes questions now …
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I think you should do yur statement first
[12:37] Rose Springvale: delia?
[12:37] Delia Lake: yes, Rose, then people may ask questions of both of you
[12:37] Rose Springvale: thank you. and thank you to Arria.
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Three words define what i want from the RA this term
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Accountability, Accessibility and Action.
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: AA and A nice
[12:38] Rose Springvale: it is the job of the RA to lead the community, and that means that it is our job to assure that the people we elect are doing their job
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: in case we wondered what the priority was
[12:38] Pip Torok wonders where “independence comes in
[12:38] Rose Springvale: that includes the Chancellor, the staff and our members.
[12:38] Rose Springvale: appreciates the courtesy being extended
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, if you play her speech backwars, it says “All Hail Satan” too :p
[12:39] Rose Springvale: accessibility…. we don’t need to sit on high chaira and rule. We need to be among the people. we need to talk to our neighbors, we need their input on our laws
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need to have open meetings where all are encouraged to participate
[12:39] Rose Springvale: in varying days and time zones
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need in short, to represent.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: and action.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the last RA will forever be characterized by what it didnt’ get done
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that’s not healthy.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Much has been said about neutrality.
[12:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (and needing a megaphone)
[12:40] Rose Springvale: and conflict of interest
[12:40] Rose Springvale: yet no one has spoken about facts.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the facts:
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria has come out opposing, publickly the AA merger
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have always, and continue to be, left the option open that AA may or may not continue
[12:41] Pip Torok thinks this shd be about Rose not Arria
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have spent many hours working for CDS, trying to create an environment open and friendly to all who wish to participate iin a democratic experiment
[12:41] Rose Springvale: i will continue to do so
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thinks it’s free speech
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t have preconcieved notions about who is good or bad
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think arriawas not interrupted
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t expect to be yoked with assumptions based on innuendo, but to deal solely in facts
[12:42] Rose Springvale: I can do this job, and i have no party affiliation
[12:43] Rose Springvale: so i guess i’m confused when i’m labeld “not neurtral”
[12:43] Rose Springvale: i have a list of the issues for the 13th RA
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is long
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is going to take work
[12:43] Patroklus Murakami: but you do have a conflict of interest – as Al Andalus Estate Owner and founder of the VDI non-profit which owns them
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is goign to take eveyrone in this room to accomplish
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty
[12:43] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: save it for questions pat
[12:43] Rose Springvale: will be happy to take your questions later
[12:43] Rose Springvale: but we cannot afford to continue the way we have been
[12:44] Rose Springvale: if we want to be taken seriously, and i for one do, then we need to quit “Playing Politics” and illustrate democracy in virtual worlds
[12:44] Rose Springvale: I challenge you all to join me, professionally, as we take on this taxk
[12:44] Rose Springvale: task.
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol applauds enthusiastically
[12:44] Lilith Ivory claps
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[12:44] mathiew Glenwalker applauds
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you, Rose
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks rose
[12:45] Patroklus Murakami claps
[12:45] Kaseido Quandry applauds
[12:45] Ulysse Alexandre claps
[12:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I put a candle down to light the way
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: ok, questions
[12:46] Pip Torok raises hand for a quetion
[12:47] fig whispers: Greeting CLEOPATRA .
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip has a question
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think chaos will ensue if we all just ask them
[12:48] fig whispers: Noticed Timo
[12:48] Pip Torok: Rose how can you know your not totally unsuitable? As the Estate Owner for Al Andalus and the founder of the VDI non-profit which owns the AA sims, Rose has a clear vested interest in both the finalisation of the merger with AA and any future transfer of the CDS sims to VDI. In these circumstances it would be _wholly_ inappropriate for her to set the agenda for, organise and chair RA meetings
[12:48] Timo Gufler throws a bone to fig
[12:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See also: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7)
[12:49] Rose Springvale: you are operating on assumptions that have no basis in fact pip. 1) Virtual democracy Inc, a texas non profit corporation, which has three board members, owns the AA estate
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol wonders whether pip is asking a question or making an attack
[12:49] Rose Springvale: not going off line, please ask in chat
[12:49] Pip Torok: and that makes you totally mot-neutral, Rose
[12:49] Rose Springvale: no
[12:50] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:50] Pip Torok: *not-neutral
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i disagree
[12:50] Rose Springvale: you are the one not neutral, as you appear to have made up your mind
[12:50] Pip Torok: the facts speak for themselves
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: rose, are you trying to claim that you are *not* the Al Andalus Estate Owner?
[12:50] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:50] Rose Springvale: my method is to gather facts.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: that’s correct pat
[12:50] fig whispers: Greeting Alexia .
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: this beggars belief
[12:50] Rose Springvale: linden labs sends invoices to the corporation
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think aLRA should take care of the function of RA and not change the society
[12:50] Pip Torok: i stating facts Roser, not my mind
[12:51] Rose Springvale: ask the treasurer, she gets them
[12:51] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Perhaps thisis like Sudane bein gour EO
[12:51] Rose Springvale: furthemore, the merger agreement was already adopted
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol agrees with Tor
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Imo Rose wants what is best for all Sim including AA, but everybody else should want the same
[12:51] Rose Springvale: so the question left ti determine is if CDS will comply with it, Nothing really to debate here
[12:51] Patroklus Murakami: sudane can’t stand for office. the law forbids it
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: as she is treasurer
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol wonders what Pats point might be….
[12:52] Patroklus Murakami: the point is to avoid conflict of interest. and there is clearly one here
[12:52] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: is that Sudane or Rudeen?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: well, if i didn’t own any land in CDS yoru point would have more weight
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: Pat, if Sudane is the estate owner (by virtue of receiving the notices from LL) then where’s the conflict?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: but you don’t own land in AA, so perhaps you are conflicted?
[12:52] Pip Torok: If Sudane as EO cannot stand for office then how can Rose as EO stand for office?
[12:53] Solomon Mosely: forget sudane….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: VDI is the estate owner… and this is a moot point.. if i can be in RA, and no one challenged that
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, what makes you think that is the case?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: I thought ROse just pointd out that she is NOT the EO….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: how can you care now?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: Rose does not receive the notices from LL…Sudane does.
[12:53] Rose Springvale: and i did seek a ruling before i ran
[12:53] Rose Springvale: cindy, VDI recieves the notices
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the EO is the non profit which is more than one person
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: this is true
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane is not the EO (from a techbnical point it) either, in case you failed to notice
[12:53] Patroklus Murakami: where is this ruling rose?
[12:53] Pip Torok: Kas … in RA does the Boss chair your union?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so it’s VDI, butu I still don’t see the conflict….
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: neither is Rose
[12:54] Rose Springvale: is there other questions? Pat, a member of only CDS, thinks members of both communities are conflicted.
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: isn’t there 2 other people on the VDI ?
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: in any event, even if she *was* biased to lean towards *continuing* the agreed up merger, so has the cds, as the referendum illustrated.
[12:54] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, and CDS is supposed to appoint two more
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: if anything, you could accuse her of following the will of the people
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and isn’t one of those others Dee ?
[12:54] Rose Springvale: there is no conflict cindy
[12:54] Patroklus Murakami: i think you have to perform some real mental double-think to believe that rose is not the AA estate owner
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I have no idea what you just said, and it’s entirely irrelevant. I believe the law forbids “the treasurer” from holding elected office, not the EO – and as pointed out, neither Sudane nor Rose is EO of record
[12:54] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand!
[12:54] Rose Springvale: thanks for your opinion pat. next?
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7) Read it please.
[12:55] Pip Torok: when you own or part-own VDI there _must_ be a conflict
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7). The EO will receive no compensation for the office. In addition, the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC. The only compensation provided will be the ceremonial title “Owner of the Sim”.
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: “the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC.”
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: I agree with you rose: I see no conflict. But obviously Pat and Pip do…I’m just trying to figure this out.
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: Ah, Pip, now I see…you feel as though Rose OWNS part of VDI….
[12:55] Delia Lake: our law as written should be revisited for many reasons. it appears to be out of date regarding LL policies
[12:55] Timo Gufler: Rose, who are the board members of your non-profit organization?
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: but the fact is that one cannot “own” part of a not for profit….
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will we explore the AROSA link with the chancellor this time ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: but this is the current law
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: where is your ruling on this rose? is it a private word from the SC or has it been made public?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: she’s a volunteer board member, not an employee or owner…
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just leaping ahead with my logic as others are wanting to do
[12:56] Pip Torok: but Rose _does_ have part-control over VDI
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps you’re just unfamiliar with that concept?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: what is “control”?
[12:56] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:56] Rose Springvale: is there another question?
[12:56] Pip Torok: controlog policy
[12:56] Arias Ahren: Yes
[12:56] Rose Springvale: this has been answered
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well Pip that’s rather like saying I get heard at RA last term and made all the decisions
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose who collects the tier for AA?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: you have not answered mine rose
[12:56] Pip Torok: control of policy
[12:56] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: where is your SC ruling?
[12:56] Arias Ahren: I believe that there is a person who has been nominated for the position of LRA who did not attend a single meeting of the RA during the last term.
I believe if this body if to ever be taken seriously that fact needs to be given serious consideration.
Rose: How many of last term RA meetings did you attend?
[12:57] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA?
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: More than you, chief.
[12:57] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input Arias. I attended a few, and read transcripts from them all.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arias since when was it necessary for people to attend RA meetings to function as informed citizens ?
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the Forum is supposed to plug the gaps
[12:57] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake
[12:57] Patroklus Murakami: and i did seek a ruling before i ran<--- where is it? [12:57] Rose Springvale: i was not a member of the RA last term, and since the meetings were held during church hour, i chose church. [12:58] Arias Ahren: Rose: I have heard you say on a number of occasions that you “hate” four of the members or the newly elected RA. How do you propose to work with people that you say that you hate. [12:58] Rose Springvale: take your complaint to the SC pat, its really untimely now [12:58] Timo Gufler: Rose, did you see my question? [12:58] Rose Springvale: arias, i'm not aware of those conversations. [12:58] Patroklus Murakami: you have no ruling rose [12:58] Pip Torok: (Rose puts us firmly second, in our place!) [12:58] Arias Ahren: That is a lie [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we should stick to the facts [12:59] Rose Springvale: i'm sorry timo, i didn't see your question, will you restate it [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and those that are commonly visible [12:59] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA? [12:59] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder who the gang of four could be? [12:59] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, you stated that you believe the LRA should be independent- yet you were one of a minority of candidates to run as a member of a faction. How do you reconcile those things? [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the suppositions that are not [12:59] Rose Springvale: VDI has three current board members, myself, micael khandr and Delia lake [12:59] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake [12:57] MystiTool [12:59] Timo Gufler: ok, thank you [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a question for AP [13:00] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement called for the CDS chancellor to serve, and for CDS to appoint two more members [13:00] Rose Springvale: CDS has not done so [13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it had time until June 30 ) [13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Some pple here should never complaim abt personal attacks [13:00] Kaseido Quandry: Arria , did you not run on a faction platform of invalidating the merger? Is that not a clear conflict of interest? [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* that's like asking "you have opinions, isn't that a conflict of interest"? Kas, Arria gets elected because of opinios [13:01] Pip Torok knows Arria better than Kaseido does, it seems ... [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *opinions even [13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP last term... I had a seconded motion at a meeting... and I had to wait for my vote... until others had discussed til their heart was content, then at other times I was forced to vote because someone had exactly the same on the table.... how can that be seen other than that I was being ignored ? [13:01] Kaseido Quandry: Arria made two statements which cannot be reconciled. [13:01] Rose Springvale: smiles at the double standards [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, your recent forum posts point to your exclusive interest in your monastery project. will that be the focus of your attention this term? or will it continue to fall through the cracks, like all other matters last term? [13:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia grins [13:02] Arria Perreault: In a parliament (as we are), someone has to chair the debate. This is an advantage and a disavantage. The fact you can set the agenda is an advantage. The disavantage is that you use your energy to manage the debate instead to participate complitely to this debate. That was my experience. Even I was CSDF member, I have taken in the agenda concerns from you or from Stui. Of course, at the moment of the vote, the LRA become again a normal member. [13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I was reading some old guild transcrips, I wonder if greek iles were put onhold because of the AA merger? [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do as lra last term to hold the chancellor accountable for following through on her obligations as exec? [13:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Tor — we felt we had plenty of sims to worry about [13:03] Kaseido Quandry waits for the answer to that question [13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I thin k Arria, the greed isles were a project you supported [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I asked you in your capacity as LRA also to ask the RA members of the work group for citizenship def to be asked for their consent to be recorded... and you wouldn't ask them... and I asked more than 5 times and more.... [13:03] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do last term to get constitional holes regarding elections tidied up? [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: consequently I wasn't able to supply the transcripts of this to the group members [13:03] Arria Perreault: we had a Bill about finances. It's still pending and ready to be voted [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how could you assure this sort of thing wouldn't occur again ? [13:04] Cindy Ecksol notes that that bill was in the LAST RA....to be voted in this RA it will have to be re-introduced. [13:04] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, do you not have a consistent record of failing to promote events run by anyone outside your faction, and have you not demonstrated consistent favoritism in events promotion? [13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: i.e I'd like to be heard and treated as an equal [13:04] Arria Perreault: I am an RA member, Cindy. I can reintroduce it [13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria characterize your interest in the monaster. [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes @arria...but it is NOT currently pending. last term's bills are all dead unless reintroduced and re-seconded for discussion [13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, Cindy is right. [13:06] Arria Perreault: Tor, you're right to tell about that. I got so many reproaches when I had this project of sim, because I was in the RA and in the New Guild [13:06] Delia Lake: if i may as SC Dean make a point re the NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act. This law as written is aparently not up to date on LL policies regarding nonprofit sim ownership. and also we have in the CDS and have had a Treasurer and CDS EO who are one and the same rl person so there is precedent of long standing for a waiver from this law. Hereby, Rose is granted a waiver and if Sudane does not already have one she is granted a waiver retroactively. This law is being taken up by the SC for recommended revision [13:06] Arria Perreault: so I have left these two groups to concentrate on the project [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: LOL! [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl [13:06] Arria Perreault: when the sim was voted, I was not member of the RA [13:06] Arria Perreault: I WAS consistent [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: delia, r u holding SC meetings here too now? [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was fast [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (and, as a member of VDI, should you not recuse yourself?) [13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: but yiu still have a considerable interest in the monastery. [13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles, VDI is not running for office [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (conflict of interest? hmm?) [13:07] Pip Torok recognises the SC ruling but notes the total conflict of interest for an LRA [13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, Pat, actually, nothing really forbids SC members to be EOs ) [13:07] Solomon Mosely: arria, what assurances do we have that you don't really just represent your party, and will give equal attention to the issues raised bu others in ra? [13:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *thinks AROSA* [13:07] Arias Ahren: The developer of VDI is [13:07] Arria Perreault: and Kas, I have a lot to say about communication. The only hing I want to tell you is that you mixt constlantly public information and event promotion. I don't [13:08] Arias Ahren: Is running for office [13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: IN SL many of us here have other sims we are involved in [13:08] Arria Perreault: because I did during the last term. I have taken concernns from other sides [13:08] Patroklus Murakami: and, when the sims have all been handed over to VDI? there will be no conflict of interest! [13:08] Kaseido Quandry: Was not Feria a public event? Did you not fail to promote it? Was not the pirate party a private event? Did you not promote that extensively? [13:08] Solomon Mosely: really? like what? [13:08] Timo Gufler: good point, Pat [13:08] Rose Springvale: VDI doesn't have any interest in others sims [13:09] Kaseido Quandry: did you not fail to promote the public event of the photography contest? [13:09] Arria Perreault: Pirate event was a project of the regional committe of CN-LA [13:09] Solomon Mosely: "when all sims are handed over to vdi"? [13:09] Pip Torok: Rose, how do we know you won't try to take the CDS sims for VDI? [13:09] Solomon Mosely: what does that even mean? [13:09] Rose Springvale: LOL [13:09] Arria Perreault: Fera was a project of the regional committe of AA [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: of course not rose. but your friends will 'suggest' the CDS is turned over and you'll agree [13:09] Rose Springvale: pip, that is a very naive statement [13:09] Rose Springvale: no Feria was a CDS event [13:09] Rose Springvale: like oktoberfest [13:09] Pip Torok notes that LOL is no answer ... [13:09] Solomon Mosely: yea, thats completely impossible [13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that it's not the job of the *LRA* to promote and announce events That's why we have an *Executive* [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: and all the ppl making decisions will be... in VDI! [13:09] Arria Perreault: no, Rose, I find this is an interesting question [13:10] Solomon Mosely: ohhh... and the executive who was supposed to appoint a pio [13:10] Rose Springvale: to transfer sims from one owner to another requires action from both [13:10] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, thank you - I'll be quoting you on that when we vote on the Executive! [13:10] Solomon Mosely: and a land management team? [13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Kas please do [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *notes that Pip would always want no other answer than the one he wants to hear* [13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: VDI is a neutral holding company [13:10] Rose Springvale: VDI can't "take over" anything [13:10] Arria Perreault: the exec organizes her/his office [13:10] Pip Torok: On the contrary, Rose ... it goes to the heart of the matter [13:10] Rose Springvale: please explain Pip [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sometimes life just isn't that fair Pippy [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed mathiew [13:10] Arria Perreault: Sonja has sold out the land: 2 parcels are for sale now [13:11] Solomon Mosely: pat, you're misinformation is disgusting and disruptive [13:11] Solomon Mosely: no pip, that isnt even an issue [13:11] Pip Torok: Sonja has plots in NFS [13:11] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:11] Kaseido Quandry: Interesting, as Sonja was utterly uninolved in *my* two purchases of land [13:11] Arria Perreault: and there is 2 new channels of information [13:11] Patroklus Murakami: mark my words. we will look back at this in six months and it will be too late by then [13:11] Solomon Mosely: you're creating it to create fear of some phantom takover, which isnt even possible [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that this big focus is frankly insulting of Micael and Dee's integrity [13:11] Pip Torok: its very much an issue Sol [13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: sonja didn'd sell the land, pple just bought it [13:11] Solomon Mosely: go back to your "rovian" playbook and try again [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know both Micael and Dee [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they are capable of being heard [13:11] Arria Perreault: this is the goal, Tor [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and of making their points [13:11] Arria Perreault: to see the land sold [13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and not being influenced [13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonjay never marketed anything [13:12] Arria Perreault: she just put parcels for sales that were blocked for a long time [13:12] Kaseido Quandry: well, not anything in the CDS, at least :p [13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:12] Rose Springvale: blocked? [13:12] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Is not Rose more controversial than Arria. LRA ought to be as little controversial as possible [13:12] Arria Perreault: not for sale in-world = block [13:12] Arria Perreault: visibly it is the best method as all is sold out [13:12] Pip Torok cheers Gwyn [13:13] Rose Springvale: not true Arria. all the was owned by the CDS was placed for sale before she took office [13:13] Solomon Mosely: none of you dpu/csdf people have read the merger, have you? [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Muh - not in my view [13:13] Arria Perreault: why do you claim about that [13:13] Rose Springvale: and not the law from the last term [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my view AP didn't listen to me [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and ignored me [13:13] Rose Springvale: the query re agreements [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but didn't do the same with others in the room [13:13] Solomon Mosely: VDI, is CONTROLLED by the CDS exec! it can't do anything without cds! [13:13] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith [13:13] Arria Perreault: during the 11th term, people claimed we had so many unsold land and now thy claim because it's sold out [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore that's more my concern [13:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, CDS agreed to take the AA sims and preserve the non profit status [13:13] Patroklus Murakami: sol, i think we need some guarantees on that [13:13] Pip Torok: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:14] Rose Springvale: CDS doesn't have to have anything to do with VDI, so long as it has an organiztion that meets the requirements for LL [13:14] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: bloody hell we have an echo [13:14] Solomon Mosely: read the freaking docs pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: arent you supposed to be a lawyer? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or Gwyn is throwing her voice [13:14] Rose Springvale: if they don't wish to make their own, then an operating agreement is an option [13:14] Rose Springvale: but [13:14] Arria Perreault: a contract need negociators [13:14] Solomon Mosely: see, i know you're not really this stupid pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: i know you must have read them [13:14] Patroklus Murakami: i've read em (no, i employ lawyers but i'm not one:-)) [13:14] Solomon Mosely: and this is just more of the same fear-mongering you tried last term [13:14] muhammedyussif Wikinger: please end discussion and start voting [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER ! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER !! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *wacks his toy gavel down on the desk [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: I agree with muhammad - this is futile [13:15] Pip Torok: then Sol, i'd hate to be you when you found out how things are .... [13:15] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a serious question for you [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: we know how we're voting, let's get to it [13:15] Rose Springvale: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government. [13:15] Solomon Mosely: you'd be lucky [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig come [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig good [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig sit [13:15] Rose Springvale: not sure how much clearer that can be gwyn [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's too minimalistic [13:16] Rose Springvale: but it is clear [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: so why did you do nothing about this in the 11th RA Rose? [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have a member of the SC on the VDI [13:16] Rose Springvale: nothing? [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: and why did no one come with a proposal during the 12th? [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, "managing for the benefit of the CDS government" might mean "sell everything in the CDS to Caledon for L$1" because it might be "for the benefit" of the CDS government doing so [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think she'd be capable of making the point to the SC if anything was untoward ? [13:17] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: n'est pas ? [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: well, gwyn, seems that if it's too minimalistic, RA can be more specific...but it sure does seem pretty specific to me regarding who "controls" VDI.... [13:17] Pip Torok notes article 5. particularly the conflict of interest with it for any LRA [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: and it's definitely not Rose...unless we elect her Chancellor. [13:17] Rose Springvale: that would require a vote of the RA wouldn't it gwyn [13:17] Solomon Mosely: wre any of you residents of cds when the merger was drafted? [13:17] Arria Perreault: Cindy, the law must consider every potential case [13:17] Patroklus Murakami: why not elect her empress and have done with it? [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only hope so, Rose [13:17] Solomon Mosely: and proposed to ra? [13:17] Arria Perreault: not considering people [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I guess I'm used to 1000-page contracts with US companies A one-paragraph-agreement just scares me, sorry [13:17] Delia Lake: yes, i was and am a cds resident [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's irrational, I know. [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, as we well know in real life, the law CANNOT consider every case. [13:18] Rose Springvale: you need better lawyers [13:18] Solomon Mosely: not you delia [13:18] Cindy Ecksol: that is why we have Supreme Courts and SC's to make rulings [13:18] Delia Lake: i have been a cds resident for 3.5 yrs [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps, Rose I won't question that [13:18] Rose Springvale: as have i [13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Why not let patty be a drama queen and we'll all bow on our knees to his oscar winning perfomance as the creator of the best overstatement of this term ? [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft [13:18] Rose Springvale: can we please stop name calling? [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a queen would be much better than a princess [13:18] Rose Springvale: we are adults. use your words! [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: empress even [13:19] Solomon Mosely: my point was, why the sudden questions? this has been planned for years now [13:19] Cindy Ecksol loves the subtle digs... [13:19] Rose Springvale: delia, i dont' have the rest of the day for this, can we call for vote? [13:19] Delia Lake: i was just thinking about that.... let's all take a couple of minutes of silence [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: I move to close discussion. can I have a second? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: second [13:19] Patroklus Murakami: i just wonder why the supporters of merger did *nothing* about the non-profit last term... just sayin; [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: whew! [13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: second [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of closing discussion? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: (say aye) [13:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye [13:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:20] Rose Springvale: aye [13:20] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:20] Delia Lake: and review what each of the candidates for LRA said about their view of the job [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:20] Timo Gufler: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I believe we have eight votes to close discussion [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: that was my first vote [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yuo go fig [13:20] Patroklus Murakami: aye to closing discussion [13:20] Solomon Mosely: but we still vote here today, right? [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I move to vote on the RA selection. Second? [13:21] Pip Torok: aye [13:21] Arias Ahren: May I make one more statement? [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: sorry..LRA selection [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: um cindy. not so fast [13:21] Rose Springvale: no discussion closed [13:21] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:21] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: um...Pat, discussion is closed. [13:21] Timo Gufler: aye [13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Trust Tor to lose his voting virginity in something nothing to do with me... I feel like he cheated on me *LOL* [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: and we have a second for moving to a vote [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: so, this is the new regime [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: coting now... [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: voting now.... [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: aye, get on with it [13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hail. I mean, aye [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:22] Lilith Ivory: aye for voting now [13:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE !!! *bangs his toy gavel* [13:22] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: ok, one vote each.... [13:22] Patroklus Murakami thought delia was chairing the meeting.... [13:22] Solomon Mosely: you had your train wreck last term, its over [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of Arria say aye please? [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:22] Pip Torok: aye [13:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:22] Timo Gufler: aye! [13:22] Arria Perreault: aye [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of rose say aye please? [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:23] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: aye for rose [13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !!! [13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye for Rose [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: aye for rose [13:23] Rose Springvale: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: fig, you're not ra, hush [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [13:24] Arria Perreault: 6 to 7, I bet it will be the result for all votes during this term ... [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably not [13:24] Rose Springvale: i hope not Arria [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: not everyone has voted.... [13:24] Solomon Mosely: welcome to politics [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: rose? [13:24] Delia Lake: 6 for Arria, 7 for Rose [13:24] Kaseido Quandry: rose voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose voted [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok, I missed it. [13:24] Delia Lake: yes everyone voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: lilith? [13:24] Lilith Ivory: I voted for Rose [13:24] Lilith Ivory: go figure [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:24] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your support. I look forward to working with all of you [13:25] Cindy Ecksol: congratulations madame LRA.... [13:25] Kaseido Quandry cheers [13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats, Rose [13:25] Arria Perreault: all? [13:25] Delia Lake: Congratulations, Rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: yes arria, all. [13:25] mathiew Glenwalker: congrats rose [13:25] Lilith Ivory: congratulations Rose [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay [13:25] Rose Springvale: thanks [13:25] Rose Springvale: i have a notecard [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: congratulations!! [13:25] Arria Perreault: did you see my first list of proposals in the forum? [13:25] Rose Springvale: of the issues that we need to deal with this term [13:25] Patroklus Murakami: congratulations rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: and proposed timelines [13:25] Rose Springvale: i''ll send a copy to each member of the RA [13:25] Arria Perreault: congratulations, of course. I am fair [13:26] Rose Springvale: and ask you to add to or comment, and let me know what areays you want to work on [13:26] Rose Springvale: hang on, if you will [13:26] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2894 [13:27] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I kept it warm [13:27] Cindy Ecksol: nice job, stui! [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all my leaping up and down [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I patted the cushion [13:28] Rose Springvale: i'll send a notice around on the first meeting, at which point we will elect a chancellor, and discuss the plan for the term [13:28] Timo Gufler accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Patroklus Murakami accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Cindy Ecksol accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Tor Karlsvalt accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Pip Torok accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Kaseido Quandry accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Rose Springvale: if you've not posted your availabitliy on the forums, please do so, or send me a note or im [13:28] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Lilith Ivory accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa it's like war and peace [13:29] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia and the SC for faciliitating the new term [13:29] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, there is a lot to do [13:29] Rose Springvale: hopefully we won't hav etime to bicker [13:29] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: damn I'll miss that *looks up at the ceiling* [13:30] Rose Springvale: hehe [13:30] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing further, lets adjourn [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor? [13:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:30] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:30] Timo Gufler: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: when do we have a party? [13:30] Arria Perreault: aye [13:31] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:31] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:31] Arria Perreault: I think Sonja has started to organizing it [13:31] Lilith Ivory: ah great [13:31] Solomon Mosely: lol [13:31] Solomon Mosely: should we ask the pio from last term [13:31] Kaseido Quandry snickers [13:31] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned, ending record

Permalink.

RA Meeting 1 June 2010

Transcript from the RA meeting, June 1, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:41 pm
[12:10] Delia Lake: well, we have all the new representatives here
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good evening and Welcome Mathiew
[12:10] Solomon Mosely: touch anything
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Stui and Cindy!
[12:10] Rose Springvale: sign records without touch apparently
[12:10] Cindy Ecksol: may have to multitask….
[12:10] DavidJrDotCom Asp: hi everyone
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: thank you stui
[12:10] fig whispers: Greeting Arias .
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a new face in the crowd !
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and color codes for posting
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: yeahhhhhh
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: yea!
[12:11] Rose Springvale: so do we begin?
[12:11] Delia Lake: yes
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: ok, 15 after
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: who’s driving?
[12:11] Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are you sitting comfortably ?
[12:11] Delia Lake: i will start
[12:11] Rose Springvale: Delia, do you want to administer the oath?
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then I’ll Begin
[12:11] Cindy Ecksol: recorder will record and send a transcript to me now…
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is anyone sitting here ?
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: not yethehe
[12:12] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I congratulate each and everyone of you on your election as representative in the 13th term of the CDS RA
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol: go ahead, stui, try ti out
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll test it
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe AP left a booby trap
[12:12] Delia Lake: The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state. One of the freedoms embodied in our Constitution is that of religious choice as specified in one of its Founding Documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
[12:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *counts to ten*
[12:13] Delia Lake: i have passed to each of you a copy of the RA Affirmation of Office
[12:13] Delia Lake: Out of our respect for diverse religious beliefs about taking oaths as well as for RA members who may be non-religious, the following affirmation does not contain any referrences to any supernatural entities.
[12:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: other than me eh Dee Dee
[12:14] Delia Lake: However, anyone taking office who may wish to do so may add the words “So help me God” [or any other entity] at the end, if they wish so. They may also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I do it first ?
[12:15] Delia Lake: if you would please, each insert your own name into the NAME space of the affirmation, and enter your affirmation into the chat for the log.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I go first ?
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: lol Stui, hurry then! :p
[12:15] Delia Lake: so long as we get everyone
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: /afk
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I am ready
[12:16] Pip Torok: (the first will be last and the last will be first
[12:16] Rose Springvale: we are waiting for you stui
[12:16] Delia Lake: and as quickly as possible
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I think my copy is incomplete
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Dee Dee can you resend it ?
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:16] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I, muhammedyussif Wikinger, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. so help me God
[12:16] Rose Springvale: sorry stui, too slow
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, your chance is lost, Stui
[12:16] Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: I, Lilith Ivory, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I Tor Karlsvalt, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I had to delay somehow – it’s my trait *LOL*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Rose Springvale: I, Rose Springvale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Timo Gufler: I, Timo Gufler, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I, StuiChicanne Darkstone (Stui), having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
So help me Patty !
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: @ Stui… heh
[12:17] Solomon Mosely: I, Solomon Mosely, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty loves me
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: deep down inside
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we’re managing to crash all devices around us…
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[12:18] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker asks himself: is crashing contageous?
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not, mathiew
[12:18] Delia Lake: many people have been crashing today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: ok, sorry…I’m back
[12:18] Solomon Mosely: oh, having a storm here, always knocks my connection wonky
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: me to Mat
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: client in crisis
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker: wear your masks!
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker thinks he is really contageous
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my. We’re having an agitated meeting.
[12:19] Delia Lake: lol
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m wearing my safety unders
[12:19] Delia Lake: we are missing Cindy
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anti crash unders
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy Doody !
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker: lol
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: ok, back again….
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s your turn
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: sorry….
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: phone won’t stop ringing
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: your turn to swear
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Cindy
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we are missing Kas
[12:19] Timo Gufler: turn it off
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: card?
[12:19] Delia Lake: oops yes
[12:19] Delia Lake: lost Kas
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: let´s swear now and be nice the rest of the term
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can teach Cindy to swear
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui lol
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: second for lillith
[12:20] Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll just try her patience a bit
[12:20] fig whispers: Noticed Arria
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: esp. if she is chancellor
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[12:21] Delia Lake: we are stil missing Kas
[12:21] Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui — I SOOOO appreciate your support!
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can put on a ladies voice
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: she isn’t even on yet
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll pretend to be Kas
[12:21] Delia Lake: no
[12:21] Delia Lake: and no )
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: she seemes to be crashed
[12:21] Solomon Mosely: ok, well, 10/13, can we still elect lra?
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can be Lady G
[12:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: You’ve been a very bad girl, a very very bad BAD girl, gaga!
[12:22] Patroklus Murakami: kas will get a 7-day vote if she is not able to come back
[12:22] Delia Lake: this as you know is the first RA under new rules where Factions are not the organizing groups
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: ah
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: wb Kas
[12:22] Rose Springvale: yay Kas!
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Kas
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: thanks –
[12:22] Delia Lake: in the past there has been a LRA previous to the first RA meeting of a new term
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: my apologies, I had to reboot my router
[12:22] fig whispers: Greeting CDS_NewPraetorium_l.
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s ok Kas I offered to put on my lady voice
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: lol! thanks, Stui!
[12:23] Delia Lake: as soon as Kas has rezzed and taken her affirmation
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Notecard .
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: I, Kaseido Quandry, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:23] Delia Lake: ty Kas
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go — congrats to all new RA members for the 13th term!
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Cindy .
[12:23] Delia Lake: we have now officially constituted the 13th RA
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes congratulation , all
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting StuiChicanne .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry cheers, in a glowing, cloud-like way
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oooh who is fig ?
[12:24] Patroklus Murakami: 13…. hmmmm!
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh it’s sol’s dog
[12:24] Solomon Mosely: your new master stui
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lucky number
[12:24] Arria Perreault: 13 for the 13th RA
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting Patroklus .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry giggles
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How more lucky can we get?
[12:24] Delia Lake: so my duties are over, and you all may now self organize to elect your LRA for this term
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll last until 2013, I’m sure
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: i bet stu knows
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you were blessed when I walked in
[12:25] Rose Springvale: smiles. and
[12:25] Rose Springvale: if we are lucky and efficient
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Who is the 13th
[12:25] Rose Springvale: 13 meetings
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to do more, but that’s for the next RA meeting…
[12:25] Rose Springvale: okay, i am going to just ask for nominations for LRA…
[12:25] Kaseido Quandry: I nominate Rose Springvale for LRA
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … to discuss
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: a little alchemy and we make 13 a good number
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: me i think
[12:25] Rose Springvale: so we aren’t stalled
[12:25] Patroklus Murakami: i nominate arria perreault for LRA
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second
[12:26] Pip Torok: I nominate arria Perrault
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second Rosy !
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Pip
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds either Pat or Pip (same nomination!)
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: I second Rose
[12:26] Rose Springvale: lol
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:26] Rose Springvale: other nominations?
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: call for vote
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Arria (I meant)
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t all rush to nominate me
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: hold on
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: ummm…discussion?
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: could we ask the candidtes qns before we vote?
[12:27] Pip Torok: we need a discussion …
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: note that Rose got 22 votes in the last election for first pref
[12:27] Rose Springvale: why?
[12:27] Rose Springvale: we have never before
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:27] Rose Springvale: this isn’t chancellor
[12:27] Lilith Ivory agrees with Tor
[12:27] Pip Torok: whats that to do with it Tor?
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: we never had an election for LRA before rose
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, we’ve never ELECTED a LRA before
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: so we never had a chance
[12:27] Arria Perreault: this is the first election of an LRA, Rose
[12:27] Rose Springvale: i’m aware of that
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I am ready to answer questions
[12:27] Solomon Mosely: fig come
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we did elect one… as a replacement once
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: could delia continue to chair until we have an LRA elected?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: sure, want to start with statements?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: so this does not become a free-for-all
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s a good idea, Pat I second that
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea Pat
[12:28] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith
[12:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: hasn’t an RA member who’s been elected with the most votes got the support of the citizens and so therefore has the greater right to be here than our choice as the elected body ?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: no stui. thats not how it works
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: no, stui, the new law does not state that.
[12:28] Rose Springvale: its okayu stui, lets just do it
[12:28] Pip Torok: not in th constitution Stui
[12:28] Delia Lake: the new law does not specify
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: we have to make it up as we go along
[12:29] Arria Perreault: it was the former law
[12:29] Solomon Mosely: that logic held when parties ruled, but not now ffor some reason
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I hope we stick to the constitution this term
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: NO but I think that should be considered.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: okay, i’m prepared for questions. go for it
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol notes that it had no logic previously…but it was the law
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I thought the mandate of the citizenship would be sufficient… *LOL*
[12:29] Rose Springvale: but lets keep it to 15 minutes okay?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could have candidate statements and then questions?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: short statements?
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t think we were higher than they are
[12:29] Pip Torok: second pats suggestion
[12:29] Delia Lake: we have 2 nominees for LRA, Rose and Arria
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sounds reasonable — a short statement would be fine
[12:30] Rose Springvale: arria, go ahead, i’m sure you are prepared
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria shoiuld go first as she is the last LRA, or have the option
[12:30] Arria Perreault: let’s say we take the alphabetical order …
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: holy cow
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: first or last name….?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I am running for the position of LRA. I had this position for one term already.
[12:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sol… Rl Name or SL name ?
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: heh
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I think I am able to take in account the proposals of the different members of the RA and of the citizen to set the agenda and to manage the debates.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: during my term, the agenda was open to everyone who had a proposal, which seems to me important in democracy
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Because of her/his tasks in this Assembly, the LRA has a duty of neutrality.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I think it will important during this term to have someone able to be neutral to manage this assembly
[12:33] Arria Perreault: it is not the main task of the LRA to develop projects
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I think also that it isimportant to avoid conflicts of interest
[12:33] Arria Perreault: as you know, I have no interest in Al-ANdalus
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: isn’t that the truth
[12:34] Solomon Mosely: no kidding
[12:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at least we aren’t dressing it up
[12:34] Arria Perreault: I consider I can manage the different debates we will have, especially about the agreement between CDS and the owner of AA
[12:35] Patroklus Murakami notes that ‘no interest in’ has a number of meanings which people who speak english as a second language might not be aware of
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed
[12:35] Arria Perreault: we should have serene debates about this question and other
[12:35] Arria Perreault: That’s why I believe I can manage this task during this term.
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol scratches her head wondering whether a “serene debate” would be any fun…..
[12:36] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria!
[12:36] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[12:36] Pip Torok: claps
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: haha cindy
[12:36] Rose Springvale: shall i go or shall arria take questions first?
[12:36] mathiew Glenwalker: claps too
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol claps
[12:36] Timo Gufler claps
[12:36] Pip Torok: suggest arria takes questions now …
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I think you should do yur statement first
[12:37] Rose Springvale: delia?
[12:37] Delia Lake: yes, Rose, then people may ask questions of both of you
[12:37] Rose Springvale: thank you. and thank you to Arria.
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Three words define what i want from the RA this term
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Accountability, Accessibility and Action.
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: AA and A nice
[12:38] Rose Springvale: it is the job of the RA to lead the community, and that means that it is our job to assure that the people we elect are doing their job
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: in case we wondered what the priority was
[12:38] Pip Torok wonders where “independence comes in
[12:38] Rose Springvale: that includes the Chancellor, the staff and our members.
[12:38] Rose Springvale: appreciates the courtesy being extended
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, if you play her speech backwars, it says “All Hail Satan” too :p
[12:39] Rose Springvale: accessibility…. we don’t need to sit on high chaira and rule. We need to be among the people. we need to talk to our neighbors, we need their input on our laws
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need to have open meetings where all are encouraged to participate
[12:39] Rose Springvale: in varying days and time zones
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need in short, to represent.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: and action.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the last RA will forever be characterized by what it didnt’ get done
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that’s not healthy.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Much has been said about neutrality.
[12:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (and needing a megaphone)
[12:40] Rose Springvale: and conflict of interest
[12:40] Rose Springvale: yet no one has spoken about facts.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the facts:
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria has come out opposing, publickly the AA merger
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have always, and continue to be, left the option open that AA may or may not continue
[12:41] Pip Torok thinks this shd be about Rose not Arria
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have spent many hours working for CDS, trying to create an environment open and friendly to all who wish to participate iin a democratic experiment
[12:41] Rose Springvale: i will continue to do so
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thinks it’s free speech
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t have preconcieved notions about who is good or bad
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think arriawas not interrupted
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t expect to be yoked with assumptions based on innuendo, but to deal solely in facts
[12:42] Rose Springvale: I can do this job, and i have no party affiliation
[12:43] Rose Springvale: so i guess i’m confused when i’m labeld “not neurtral”
[12:43] Rose Springvale: i have a list of the issues for the 13th RA
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is long
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is going to take work
[12:43] Patroklus Murakami: but you do have a conflict of interest – as Al Andalus Estate Owner and founder of the VDI non-profit which owns them
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is goign to take eveyrone in this room to accomplish
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty
[12:43] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: save it for questions pat
[12:43] Rose Springvale: will be happy to take your questions later
[12:43] Rose Springvale: but we cannot afford to continue the way we have been
[12:44] Rose Springvale: if we want to be taken seriously, and i for one do, then we need to quit “Playing Politics” and illustrate democracy in virtual worlds
[12:44] Rose Springvale: I challenge you all to join me, professionally, as we take on this taxk
[12:44] Rose Springvale: task.
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol applauds enthusiastically
[12:44] Lilith Ivory claps
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[12:44] mathiew Glenwalker applauds
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you, Rose
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks rose
[12:45] Patroklus Murakami claps
[12:45] Kaseido Quandry applauds
[12:45] Ulysse Alexandre claps
[12:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I put a candle down to light the way
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: ok, questions
[12:46] Pip Torok raises hand for a quetion
[12:47] fig whispers: Greeting CLEOPATRA .
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip has a question
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think chaos will ensue if we all just ask them
[12:48] fig whispers: Noticed Timo
[12:48] Pip Torok: Rose how can you know your not totally unsuitable? As the Estate Owner for Al Andalus and the founder of the VDI non-profit which owns the AA sims, Rose has a clear vested interest in both the finalisation of the merger with AA and any future transfer of the CDS sims to VDI. In these circumstances it would be _wholly_ inappropriate for her to set the agenda for, organise and chair RA meetings
[12:48] Timo Gufler throws a bone to fig
[12:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See also: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7)
[12:49] Rose Springvale: you are operating on assumptions that have no basis in fact pip. 1) Virtual democracy Inc, a texas non profit corporation, which has three board members, owns the AA estate
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol wonders whether pip is asking a question or making an attack
[12:49] Rose Springvale: not going off line, please ask in chat
[12:49] Pip Torok: and that makes you totally mot-neutral, Rose
[12:49] Rose Springvale: no
[12:50] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:50] Pip Torok: *not-neutral
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i disagree
[12:50] Rose Springvale: you are the one not neutral, as you appear to have made up your mind
[12:50] Pip Torok: the facts speak for themselves
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: rose, are you trying to claim that you are *not* the Al Andalus Estate Owner?
[12:50] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:50] Rose Springvale: my method is to gather facts.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: that’s correct pat
[12:50] fig whispers: Greeting Alexia .
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: this beggars belief
[12:50] Rose Springvale: linden labs sends invoices to the corporation
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think aLRA should take care of the function of RA and not change the society
[12:50] Pip Torok: i stating facts Roser, not my mind
[12:51] Rose Springvale: ask the treasurer, she gets them
[12:51] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Perhaps thisis like Sudane bein gour EO
[12:51] Rose Springvale: furthemore, the merger agreement was already adopted
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol agrees with Tor
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Imo Rose wants what is best for all Sim including AA, but everybody else should want the same
[12:51] Rose Springvale: so the question left ti determine is if CDS will comply with it, Nothing really to debate here
[12:51] Patroklus Murakami: sudane can’t stand for office. the law forbids it
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: as she is treasurer
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol wonders what Pats point might be….
[12:52] Patroklus Murakami: the point is to avoid conflict of interest. and there is clearly one here
[12:52] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: is that Sudane or Rudeen?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: well, if i didn’t own any land in CDS yoru point would have more weight
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: Pat, if Sudane is the estate owner (by virtue of receiving the notices from LL) then where’s the conflict?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: but you don’t own land in AA, so perhaps you are conflicted?
[12:52] Pip Torok: If Sudane as EO cannot stand for office then how can Rose as EO stand for office?
[12:53] Solomon Mosely: forget sudane….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: VDI is the estate owner… and this is a moot point.. if i can be in RA, and no one challenged that
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, what makes you think that is the case?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: I thought ROse just pointd out that she is NOT the EO….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: how can you care now?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: Rose does not receive the notices from LL…Sudane does.
[12:53] Rose Springvale: and i did seek a ruling before i ran
[12:53] Rose Springvale: cindy, VDI recieves the notices
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the EO is the non profit which is more than one person
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: this is true
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane is not the EO (from a techbnical point it) either, in case you failed to notice
[12:53] Patroklus Murakami: where is this ruling rose?
[12:53] Pip Torok: Kas … in RA does the Boss chair your union?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so it’s VDI, butu I still don’t see the conflict….
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: neither is Rose
[12:54] Rose Springvale: is there other questions? Pat, a member of only CDS, thinks members of both communities are conflicted.
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: isn’t there 2 other people on the VDI ?
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: in any event, even if she *was* biased to lean towards *continuing* the agreed up merger, so has the cds, as the referendum illustrated.
[12:54] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, and CDS is supposed to appoint two more
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: if anything, you could accuse her of following the will of the people
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and isn’t one of those others Dee ?
[12:54] Rose Springvale: there is no conflict cindy
[12:54] Patroklus Murakami: i think you have to perform some real mental double-think to believe that rose is not the AA estate owner
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I have no idea what you just said, and it’s entirely irrelevant. I believe the law forbids “the treasurer” from holding elected office, not the EO – and as pointed out, neither Sudane nor Rose is EO of record
[12:54] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand!
[12:54] Rose Springvale: thanks for your opinion pat. next?
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7) Read it please.
[12:55] Pip Torok: when you own or part-own VDI there _must_ be a conflict
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7). The EO will receive no compensation for the office. In addition, the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC. The only compensation provided will be the ceremonial title “Owner of the Sim”.
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: “the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC.”
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: I agree with you rose: I see no conflict. But obviously Pat and Pip do…I’m just trying to figure this out.
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: Ah, Pip, now I see…you feel as though Rose OWNS part of VDI….
[12:55] Delia Lake: our law as written should be revisited for many reasons. it appears to be out of date regarding LL policies
[12:55] Timo Gufler: Rose, who are the board members of your non-profit organization?
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: but the fact is that one cannot “own” part of a not for profit….
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will we explore the AROSA link with the chancellor this time ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: but this is the current law
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: where is your ruling on this rose? is it a private word from the SC or has it been made public?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: she’s a volunteer board member, not an employee or owner…
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just leaping ahead with my logic as others are wanting to do
[12:56] Pip Torok: but Rose _does_ have part-control over VDI
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps you’re just unfamiliar with that concept?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: what is “control”?
[12:56] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:56] Rose Springvale: is there another question?
[12:56] Pip Torok: controlog policy
[12:56] Arias Ahren: Yes
[12:56] Rose Springvale: this has been answered
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well Pip that’s rather like saying I get heard at RA last term and made all the decisions
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose who collects the tier for AA?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: you have not answered mine rose
[12:56] Pip Torok: control of policy
[12:56] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: where is your SC ruling?
[12:56] Arias Ahren: I believe that there is a person who has been nominated for the position of LRA who did not attend a single meeting of the RA during the last term.
I believe if this body if to ever be taken seriously that fact needs to be given serious consideration.
Rose: How many of last term RA meetings did you attend?
[12:57] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA?
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: More than you, chief.
[12:57] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input Arias. I attended a few, and read transcripts from them all.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arias since when was it necessary for people to attend RA meetings to function as informed citizens ?
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the Forum is supposed to plug the gaps
[12:57] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake
[12:57] Patroklus Murakami: and i did seek a ruling before i ran<--- where is it? [12:57] Rose Springvale: i was not a member of the RA last term, and since the meetings were held during church hour, i chose church. [12:58] Arias Ahren: Rose: I have heard you say on a number of occasions that you “hate” four of the members or the newly elected RA. How do you propose to work with people that you say that you hate. [12:58] Rose Springvale: take your complaint to the SC pat, its really untimely now [12:58] Timo Gufler: Rose, did you see my question? [12:58] Rose Springvale: arias, i'm not aware of those conversations. [12:58] Patroklus Murakami: you have no ruling rose [12:58] Pip Torok: (Rose puts us firmly second, in our place!) [12:58] Arias Ahren: That is a lie [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we should stick to the facts [12:59] Rose Springvale: i'm sorry timo, i didn't see your question, will you restate it [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and those that are commonly visible [12:59] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA? [12:59] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder who the gang of four could be? [12:59] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, you stated that you believe the LRA should be independent- yet you were one of a minority of candidates to run as a member of a faction. How do you reconcile those things? [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the suppositions that are not [12:59] Rose Springvale: VDI has three current board members, myself, micael khandr and Delia lake [12:59] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake [12:57] MystiTool [12:59] Timo Gufler: ok, thank you [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a question for AP [13:00] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement called for the CDS chancellor to serve, and for CDS to appoint two more members [13:00] Rose Springvale: CDS has not done so [13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it had time until June 30 ) [13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Some pple here should never complaim abt personal attacks [13:00] Kaseido Quandry: Arria , did you not run on a faction platform of invalidating the merger? Is that not a clear conflict of interest? [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* that's like asking "you have opinions, isn't that a conflict of interest"? Kas, Arria gets elected because of opinios [13:01] Pip Torok knows Arria better than Kaseido does, it seems ... [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *opinions even [13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP last term... I had a seconded motion at a meeting... and I had to wait for my vote... until others had discussed til their heart was content, then at other times I was forced to vote because someone had exactly the same on the table.... how can that be seen other than that I was being ignored ? [13:01] Kaseido Quandry: Arria made two statements which cannot be reconciled. [13:01] Rose Springvale: smiles at the double standards [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, your recent forum posts point to your exclusive interest in your monastery project. will that be the focus of your attention this term? or will it continue to fall through the cracks, like all other matters last term? [13:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia grins [13:02] Arria Perreault: In a parliament (as we are), someone has to chair the debate. This is an advantage and a disavantage. The fact you can set the agenda is an advantage. The disavantage is that you use your energy to manage the debate instead to participate complitely to this debate. That was my experience. Even I was CSDF member, I have taken in the agenda concerns from you or from Stui. Of course, at the moment of the vote, the LRA become again a normal member. [13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I was reading some old guild transcrips, I wonder if greek iles were put onhold because of the AA merger? [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do as lra last term to hold the chancellor accountable for following through on her obligations as exec? [13:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Tor — we felt we had plenty of sims to worry about [13:03] Kaseido Quandry waits for the answer to that question [13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I thin k Arria, the greed isles were a project you supported [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I asked you in your capacity as LRA also to ask the RA members of the work group for citizenship def to be asked for their consent to be recorded... and you wouldn't ask them... and I asked more than 5 times and more.... [13:03] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do last term to get constitional holes regarding elections tidied up? [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: consequently I wasn't able to supply the transcripts of this to the group members [13:03] Arria Perreault: we had a Bill about finances. It's still pending and ready to be voted [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how could you assure this sort of thing wouldn't occur again ? [13:04] Cindy Ecksol notes that that bill was in the LAST RA....to be voted in this RA it will have to be re-introduced. [13:04] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, do you not have a consistent record of failing to promote events run by anyone outside your faction, and have you not demonstrated consistent favoritism in events promotion? [13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: i.e I'd like to be heard and treated as an equal [13:04] Arria Perreault: I am an RA member, Cindy. I can reintroduce it [13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria characterize your interest in the monaster. [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes @arria...but it is NOT currently pending. last term's bills are all dead unless reintroduced and re-seconded for discussion [13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, Cindy is right. [13:06] Arria Perreault: Tor, you're right to tell about that. I got so many reproaches when I had this project of sim, because I was in the RA and in the New Guild [13:06] Delia Lake: if i may as SC Dean make a point re the NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act. This law as written is aparently not up to date on LL policies regarding nonprofit sim ownership. and also we have in the CDS and have had a Treasurer and CDS EO who are one and the same rl person so there is precedent of long standing for a waiver from this law. Hereby, Rose is granted a waiver and if Sudane does not already have one she is granted a waiver retroactively. This law is being taken up by the SC for recommended revision [13:06] Arria Perreault: so I have left these two groups to concentrate on the project [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: LOL! [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl [13:06] Arria Perreault: when the sim was voted, I was not member of the RA [13:06] Arria Perreault: I WAS consistent [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: delia, r u holding SC meetings here too now? [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was fast [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (and, as a member of VDI, should you not recuse yourself?) [13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: but yiu still have a considerable interest in the monastery. [13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles, VDI is not running for office [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (conflict of interest? hmm?) [13:07] Pip Torok recognises the SC ruling but notes the total conflict of interest for an LRA [13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, Pat, actually, nothing really forbids SC members to be EOs ) [13:07] Solomon Mosely: arria, what assurances do we have that you don't really just represent your party, and will give equal attention to the issues raised bu others in ra? [13:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *thinks AROSA* [13:07] Arias Ahren: The developer of VDI is [13:07] Arria Perreault: and Kas, I have a lot to say about communication. The only hing I want to tell you is that you mixt constlantly public information and event promotion. I don't [13:08] Arias Ahren: Is running for office [13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: IN SL many of us here have other sims we are involved in [13:08] Arria Perreault: because I did during the last term. I have taken concernns from other sides [13:08] Patroklus Murakami: and, when the sims have all been handed over to VDI? there will be no conflict of interest! [13:08] Kaseido Quandry: Was not Feria a public event? Did you not fail to promote it? Was not the pirate party a private event? Did you not promote that extensively? [13:08] Solomon Mosely: really? like what? [13:08] Timo Gufler: good point, Pat [13:08] Rose Springvale: VDI doesn't have any interest in others sims [13:09] Kaseido Quandry: did you not fail to promote the public event of the photography contest? [13:09] Arria Perreault: Pirate event was a project of the regional committe of CN-LA [13:09] Solomon Mosely: "when all sims are handed over to vdi"? [13:09] Pip Torok: Rose, how do we know you won't try to take the CDS sims for VDI? [13:09] Solomon Mosely: what does that even mean? [13:09] Rose Springvale: LOL [13:09] Arria Perreault: Fera was a project of the regional committe of AA [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: of course not rose. but your friends will 'suggest' the CDS is turned over and you'll agree [13:09] Rose Springvale: pip, that is a very naive statement [13:09] Rose Springvale: no Feria was a CDS event [13:09] Rose Springvale: like oktoberfest [13:09] Pip Torok notes that LOL is no answer ... [13:09] Solomon Mosely: yea, thats completely impossible [13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that it's not the job of the *LRA* to promote and announce events That's why we have an *Executive* [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: and all the ppl making decisions will be... in VDI! [13:09] Arria Perreault: no, Rose, I find this is an interesting question [13:10] Solomon Mosely: ohhh... and the executive who was supposed to appoint a pio [13:10] Rose Springvale: to transfer sims from one owner to another requires action from both [13:10] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, thank you - I'll be quoting you on that when we vote on the Executive! [13:10] Solomon Mosely: and a land management team? [13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Kas please do [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *notes that Pip would always want no other answer than the one he wants to hear* [13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: VDI is a neutral holding company [13:10] Rose Springvale: VDI can't "take over" anything [13:10] Arria Perreault: the exec organizes her/his office [13:10] Pip Torok: On the contrary, Rose ... it goes to the heart of the matter [13:10] Rose Springvale: please explain Pip [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sometimes life just isn't that fair Pippy [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed mathiew [13:10] Arria Perreault: Sonja has sold out the land: 2 parcels are for sale now [13:11] Solomon Mosely: pat, you're misinformation is disgusting and disruptive [13:11] Solomon Mosely: no pip, that isnt even an issue [13:11] Pip Torok: Sonja has plots in NFS [13:11] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:11] Kaseido Quandry: Interesting, as Sonja was utterly uninolved in *my* two purchases of land [13:11] Arria Perreault: and there is 2 new channels of information [13:11] Patroklus Murakami: mark my words. we will look back at this in six months and it will be too late by then [13:11] Solomon Mosely: you're creating it to create fear of some phantom takover, which isnt even possible [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that this big focus is frankly insulting of Micael and Dee's integrity [13:11] Pip Torok: its very much an issue Sol [13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: sonja didn'd sell the land, pple just bought it [13:11] Solomon Mosely: go back to your "rovian" playbook and try again [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know both Micael and Dee [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they are capable of being heard [13:11] Arria Perreault: this is the goal, Tor [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and of making their points [13:11] Arria Perreault: to see the land sold [13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and not being influenced [13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonjay never marketed anything [13:12] Arria Perreault: she just put parcels for sales that were blocked for a long time [13:12] Kaseido Quandry: well, not anything in the CDS, at least :p [13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:12] Rose Springvale: blocked? [13:12] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Is not Rose more controversial than Arria. LRA ought to be as little controversial as possible [13:12] Arria Perreault: not for sale in-world = block [13:12] Arria Perreault: visibly it is the best method as all is sold out [13:12] Pip Torok cheers Gwyn [13:13] Rose Springvale: not true Arria. all the was owned by the CDS was placed for sale before she took office [13:13] Solomon Mosely: none of you dpu/csdf people have read the merger, have you? [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Muh - not in my view [13:13] Arria Perreault: why do you claim about that [13:13] Rose Springvale: and not the law from the last term [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my view AP didn't listen to me [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and ignored me [13:13] Rose Springvale: the query re agreements [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but didn't do the same with others in the room [13:13] Solomon Mosely: VDI, is CONTROLLED by the CDS exec! it can't do anything without cds! [13:13] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith [13:13] Arria Perreault: during the 11th term, people claimed we had so many unsold land and now thy claim because it's sold out [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore that's more my concern [13:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, CDS agreed to take the AA sims and preserve the non profit status [13:13] Patroklus Murakami: sol, i think we need some guarantees on that [13:13] Pip Torok: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:14] Rose Springvale: CDS doesn't have to have anything to do with VDI, so long as it has an organiztion that meets the requirements for LL [13:14] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: bloody hell we have an echo [13:14] Solomon Mosely: read the freaking docs pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: arent you supposed to be a lawyer? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or Gwyn is throwing her voice [13:14] Rose Springvale: if they don't wish to make their own, then an operating agreement is an option [13:14] Rose Springvale: but [13:14] Arria Perreault: a contract need negociators [13:14] Solomon Mosely: see, i know you're not really this stupid pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: i know you must have read them [13:14] Patroklus Murakami: i've read em (no, i employ lawyers but i'm not one:-)) [13:14] Solomon Mosely: and this is just more of the same fear-mongering you tried last term [13:14] muhammedyussif Wikinger: please end discussion and start voting [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER ! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER !! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *wacks his toy gavel down on the desk [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: I agree with muhammad - this is futile [13:15] Pip Torok: then Sol, i'd hate to be you when you found out how things are .... [13:15] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a serious question for you [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: we know how we're voting, let's get to it [13:15] Rose Springvale: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government. [13:15] Solomon Mosely: you'd be lucky [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig come [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig good [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig sit [13:15] Rose Springvale: not sure how much clearer that can be gwyn [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's too minimalistic [13:16] Rose Springvale: but it is clear [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: so why did you do nothing about this in the 11th RA Rose? [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have a member of the SC on the VDI [13:16] Rose Springvale: nothing? [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: and why did no one come with a proposal during the 12th? [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, "managing for the benefit of the CDS government" might mean "sell everything in the CDS to Caledon for L$1" because it might be "for the benefit" of the CDS government doing so [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think she'd be capable of making the point to the SC if anything was untoward ? [13:17] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: n'est pas ? [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: well, gwyn, seems that if it's too minimalistic, RA can be more specific...but it sure does seem pretty specific to me regarding who "controls" VDI.... [13:17] Pip Torok notes article 5. particularly the conflict of interest with it for any LRA [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: and it's definitely not Rose...unless we elect her Chancellor. [13:17] Rose Springvale: that would require a vote of the RA wouldn't it gwyn [13:17] Solomon Mosely: wre any of you residents of cds when the merger was drafted? [13:17] Arria Perreault: Cindy, the law must consider every potential case [13:17] Patroklus Murakami: why not elect her empress and have done with it? [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only hope so, Rose [13:17] Solomon Mosely: and proposed to ra? [13:17] Arria Perreault: not considering people [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I guess I'm used to 1000-page contracts with US companies A one-paragraph-agreement just scares me, sorry [13:17] Delia Lake: yes, i was and am a cds resident [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's irrational, I know. [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, as we well know in real life, the law CANNOT consider every case. [13:18] Rose Springvale: you need better lawyers [13:18] Solomon Mosely: not you delia [13:18] Cindy Ecksol: that is why we have Supreme Courts and SC's to make rulings [13:18] Delia Lake: i have been a cds resident for 3.5 yrs [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps, Rose I won't question that [13:18] Rose Springvale: as have i [13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Why not let patty be a drama queen and we'll all bow on our knees to his oscar winning perfomance as the creator of the best overstatement of this term ? [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft [13:18] Rose Springvale: can we please stop name calling? [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a queen would be much better than a princess [13:18] Rose Springvale: we are adults. use your words! [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: empress even [13:19] Solomon Mosely: my point was, why the sudden questions? this has been planned for years now [13:19] Cindy Ecksol loves the subtle digs... [13:19] Rose Springvale: delia, i dont' have the rest of the day for this, can we call for vote? [13:19] Delia Lake: i was just thinking about that.... let's all take a couple of minutes of silence [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: I move to close discussion. can I have a second? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: second [13:19] Patroklus Murakami: i just wonder why the supporters of merger did *nothing* about the non-profit last term... just sayin; [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: whew! [13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: second [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of closing discussion? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: (say aye) [13:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye [13:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:20] Rose Springvale: aye [13:20] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:20] Delia Lake: and review what each of the candidates for LRA said about their view of the job [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:20] Timo Gufler: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I believe we have eight votes to close discussion [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: that was my first vote [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yuo go fig [13:20] Patroklus Murakami: aye to closing discussion [13:20] Solomon Mosely: but we still vote here today, right? [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I move to vote on the RA selection. Second? [13:21] Pip Torok: aye [13:21] Arias Ahren: May I make one more statement? [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: sorry..LRA selection [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: um cindy. not so fast [13:21] Rose Springvale: no discussion closed [13:21] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:21] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: um...Pat, discussion is closed. [13:21] Timo Gufler: aye [13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Trust Tor to lose his voting virginity in something nothing to do with me... I feel like he cheated on me *LOL* [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: and we have a second for moving to a vote [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: so, this is the new regime [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: coting now... [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: voting now.... [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: aye, get on with it [13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hail. I mean, aye [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:22] Lilith Ivory: aye for voting now [13:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE !!! *bangs his toy gavel* [13:22] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: ok, one vote each.... [13:22] Patroklus Murakami thought delia was chairing the meeting.... [13:22] Solomon Mosely: you had your train wreck last term, its over [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of Arria say aye please? [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:22] Pip Torok: aye [13:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:22] Timo Gufler: aye! [13:22] Arria Perreault: aye [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of rose say aye please? [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:23] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: aye for rose [13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !!! [13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye for Rose [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: aye for rose [13:23] Rose Springvale: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: fig, you're not ra, hush [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [13:24] Arria Perreault: 6 to 7, I bet it will be the result for all votes during this term ... [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably not [13:24] Rose Springvale: i hope not Arria [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: not everyone has voted.... [13:24] Solomon Mosely: welcome to politics [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: rose? [13:24] Delia Lake: 6 for Arria, 7 for Rose [13:24] Kaseido Quandry: rose voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose voted [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok, I missed it. [13:24] Delia Lake: yes everyone voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: lilith? [13:24] Lilith Ivory: I voted for Rose [13:24] Lilith Ivory: go figure [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:24] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your support. I look forward to working with all of you [13:25] Cindy Ecksol: congratulations madame LRA.... [13:25] Kaseido Quandry cheers [13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats, Rose [13:25] Arria Perreault: all? [13:25] Delia Lake: Congratulations, Rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: yes arria, all. [13:25] mathiew Glenwalker: congrats rose [13:25] Lilith Ivory: congratulations Rose [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay [13:25] Rose Springvale: thanks [13:25] Rose Springvale: i have a notecard [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: congratulations!! [13:25] Arria Perreault: did you see my first list of proposals in the forum? [13:25] Rose Springvale: of the issues that we need to deal with this term [13:25] Patroklus Murakami: congratulations rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: and proposed timelines [13:25] Rose Springvale: i''ll send a copy to each member of the RA [13:25] Arria Perreault: congratulations, of course. I am fair [13:26] Rose Springvale: and ask you to add to or comment, and let me know what areays you want to work on [13:26] Rose Springvale: hang on, if you will [13:26] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2894 [13:27] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I kept it warm [13:27] Cindy Ecksol: nice job, stui! [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all my leaping up and down [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I patted the cushion [13:28] Rose Springvale: i'll send a notice around on the first meeting, at which point we will elect a chancellor, and discuss the plan for the term [13:28] Timo Gufler accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Patroklus Murakami accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Cindy Ecksol accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Tor Karlsvalt accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Pip Torok accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Kaseido Quandry accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Rose Springvale: if you've not posted your availabitliy on the forums, please do so, or send me a note or im [13:28] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Lilith Ivory accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa it's like war and peace [13:29] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia and the SC for faciliitating the new term [13:29] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, there is a lot to do [13:29] Rose Springvale: hopefully we won't hav etime to bicker [13:29] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: damn I'll miss that *looks up at the ceiling* [13:30] Rose Springvale: hehe [13:30] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing further, lets adjourn [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor? [13:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:30] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:30] Timo Gufler: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: when do we have a party? [13:30] Arria Perreault: aye [13:31] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:31] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:31] Arria Perreault: I think Sonja has started to organizing it [13:31] Lilith Ivory: ah great [13:31] Solomon Mosely: lol [13:31] Solomon Mosely: should we ask the pio from last term [13:31] Kaseido Quandry snickers [13:31] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned, ending record

Permalink.

RA Meeting 17 June 2010

Transcript from the RA meeting, June 17, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:46 pm
[11:59] Rose Springvale: we don’t quite have a quorum of RA yet, but we can go ahead with citizens concerns… so i’ll call us to order
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: I´ve stored all my fav clothes on boxes
[12:00] Kaseido Quandry: wow, new and new-ish faces! yay!
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: to have them if the Lindens loose the original ones
[12:00] Rose Springvale: Welcome to the CDS Representative Assembly meeting, thank you all for being here
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[12:00] Kaseido Quandry: hi Lil!
[12:00] Rose Springvale: As you see from the sign, all our meetings are transcripted and published, so if you speak, we presume you have consented to that
[12:01] Arias Ahren: Hellow all.
[12:01] Rose Springvale: You’ll find an agenda for today’s meeting in the Owl box on the table in front of me, but this part of the meeting is open for our citizens to express concerns, announcements, and give us food for thought
[12:01] Timo Gufler: hello Arias
[12:01] Fern Leissa: Hello Arias
[12:01] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Arias
[12:01] Rose Springvale: Hello Arias, Bagheera
[12:01] Rose Springvale: So we are open to the citizens now
[12:01] Bagheera Kristan: Hello
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arias
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: hi all
[12:02] Arias Ahren: Good day to everyone
[12:02] Kaseido Quandry: hey Tor!
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Hi Tor
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Rose is this the spot for citizens to ask for clarification
[12:02] Rosie Gray raises a hand
[12:02] Rose Springvale: yes ma’am
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Fern first then Rosie
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Ok. Sorry. rises hand
[12:02] Rose Springvale: you have the floor Fern
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Can you clarify the status of the merger agreement? I have heard so much confusing and contradictory inf about it?
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Just briefly outline I guess
[12:03] Rose Springvale: does someone on the RA want to take that? or shall i?
[12:03] Rose Springvale: okay :0
[12:04] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:04] Rose Springvale: there is a merger agreement in effect fern, and i’ll pass that to you in a moment
[12:04] Pip Torok: ??? merger agreement?
[12:04] Rose Springvale: The parties each have the opportunity to “opt out” of the agreement, for one week, commencing july 22
[12:04] Pip Torok: ah
[12:04] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip, the first on
[12:04] Rose Springvale: so this Body will vote, and 2/3 of the group will confirm the agreement
[12:05] Rose Springvale: and the Al Andalus Population will also advise their estate owner
[12:05] Rose Springvale: by July 29, we will know what happens
[12:05] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, the agreement is in effect
[12:05] Arria Perreault: we need 2/3 to confirm the agreement?
[12:05] Rose Springvale: no
[12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: no RRIA
[12:05] Rose Springvale: you need 2/3 to undo it
[12:05] Arria Perreault: pity
[12:05] Rose Springvale: i’ll put the agreement in the notecard giver, so you all can take at your leisure
[12:05] Rose Springvale: you can click the owl box and get a copy now
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Rosie?
[12:06] Rosie Gray: thank you Rose
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Thank you
[12:06] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:06] Rosie Gray: I was wondering, as a new citizen and merchant in NFS
[12:06] Timo Gufler: my opinion is that, that AA citizens of the RA should abstain from the voting
[12:06] Rose Springvale: please let Rosie speak
[12:06] Arria Perreault: yes, I agreewith Timo
[12:06] Rosie Gray: is there a policy around announcements for things like new shops opening?
[12:06] Rose Springvale: you are both out of order. please
[12:07] Rosie Gray: and who can make announcements through the group?
[12:07] Rose Springvale: ah good question Rosie
[12:07] Arria Perreault: weare citizen too
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: great question!
[12:07] Rosie Gray: that’s it
[12:07] Rose Springvale: The Chancellor is in charge of publicity, so you could give a note to her to make announcements, announce on the forums, and i presume, you could announce on the social media as well
[12:07] Rosie Gray: okay thank you
[12:08] Rose Springvale: also, we have people who have volunteered to be run a commerce commission …we’ll talk about that later, and they can help too
[12:08] Rosie Gray nods
[12:08] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie, you might want to look at that polic of cental landing point in NFS
[12:08] Rosie Gray: indeed that is another topic I’d like to raise Tor
[12:09] Rose Springvale: that’s a good topic too
[12:09] Rosie Gray: do I still have the floor?
[12:09] Rose Springvale: sure
[12:09] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:09] Rosie Gray:
[12:09] Rose Springvale: calli next
[12:09] Rosie Gray: well as a new person here
[12:09] Rosie Gray: I am finding it difficult to find things
[12:09] Rosie Gray: even where I am supposed to pay my tier
[12:09] Rose Springvale: did you get a notecard on that Rosie?
[12:10] Rosie Gray: so I can understand that it may be hard to attract any customers to a shop that is not right on the main plaza
[12:10] Rosie Gray accepted your inventory offer.
[12:10] Rose Springvale: yes, it’s a continuing problem
[12:10] Rosie Gray: is that question being addressed by a committee?
[12:11] Rose Springvale: RA members? have anything to say to Rosie on that? We can certainly assign it to a committee, but i believe that is chancellor venue as well
[12:11] Arria Perreault: we can create a committee for each issue
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Rosie I have shopes in the CDS since 2007
[12:11] Arria Perreault: it’s a great idea
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: if you have any questions you can ask me any time
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: just send me an IM ans I´ll try to help you
[12:12] Rosie Gray: thanks Lilith
[12:12] Rose Springvale: Okay, i’ll assign that to the covenant review commission… and maybe commerce can make a recommendation as well
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol nods
[12:12] Rosie Gray: great thank you Rose
[12:12] Rose Springvale: or “we” will assign it
[12:12] Rose Springvale: anything else Rosie?
[12:12] Arria Perreault: This commission doesn’t yet exist, Rose
[12:12] Rosie Gray: no that’s all from me
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks Arria, its on the agenda today
[12:13] Arria Perreault: the RA should it first and discuss about its mission
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: but sounds like a good idea to have one
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:13] Arria Perreault: yes, we love committee
[12:13] Rose Springvale: we are here listening to our citizens, i am sure the RA will find a way to respond
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Calli??
[12:13] Arria Perreault: why not a committee about commiittes
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: As food for thought for everyone, since many people never fllow the Lindex and exchange rates, the value of lindens has dropped dramatically in the last few days and is going through major fluctuations. This affects tier cost, and value of lindens held in world. It is a good time to be aware of the Lindex and what is happening to the linden.
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: that’s all
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: excellent, Calli – I was going to raise that on the forums
[12:14] Arria Perreault: whyt is the current rate?
[12:14] Arria Perreault: what*
[12:14] Rose Springvale: exchanges are one of those things that elude me… can you put that in understandable language for me Calli
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: last trade was at 275
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: until 2 weks ago on average it was 260
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: was 267 yesterday
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: it hit 300 at one point yesterday
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: this is a good explanation: http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/06/17 … en-dollar/
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: anyway..something to be asare of
[12:15] Rose Springvale: but does it mean our tier costs us more or less?
[12:15] Pip Torok: so the RL dollar tier will be lower?
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: there was an official “don’t worry be happy” announcement from LL too
[12:15] Rose Springvale: and how does it affect our reserves?
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: means our tier is highter in Lindens
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: it devalues Linden dollar reserves
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: and if our reserves are in Lindens, we’ve just lost a bundel
[12:15] Rose Springvale: ah
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: I got a mail from M. Linden a few days ago
[12:16] Pip Torok: i see
[12:16] Callipygian Christensen: it may well level out and go back to ‘normal’..but still something to keep in awareness
[12:16] Kaseido Quandry: this should seriously concern all of us, particularly our fiscal conservatives
[12:16] Rose Springvale: thanks Calli. I hope our finance commission can look at that in depth
[12:17] Arria Perreault: the best advice: don’t panic
[12:17] Pip Torok: any possibility to keep US $ reserves instead of Lindens?
[12:17] Kaseido Quandry: we should look seriously at that, I think, Pip
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: noted
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: too late…
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: horse is out of the barn
[12:17] Rose Springvale: i think its a simple conversion in the avatar account
[12:17] Bagheera Kristan: Ihave acitizen concern, if there is time, or it can wait until next meeting
[12:17] Rose Springvale: lindens to usd
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I see what you are trying to do ….
[12:18] Rose Springvale: lets see if we want to extend
[12:18] Callipygian Christensen: Yes, you cnan do that and perhaps the treasurer does, but now is not a great time to make the switch if not
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: It is an argument of real life acct in UDD
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: USD
[12:18] Rose Springvale: is there a motion from RA to extend time?
[12:18] Kaseido Quandry: so moved
[12:18] Rose Springvale: for five minutes?
[12:18] Pip Torok: for this occasion cindy but what about a further devaluation?
[12:18] Arria Perreault: is the US dollar the best choice?
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: the euro isn’t today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: (to extend 5 minutes)
[12:19] Arria Perreault: there are others
[12:19] Rose Springvale: thanks All in favor of extending time 5 minutes for citzens concerns. say aye
[12:19] Pip Torok: imho the best athis moment Arria
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:19] Pip Torok: aye
[12:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:19] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:19] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:19] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:19] Rose Springvale: okay, we’ll go on for 5 more minutes
[12:20] Rose Springvale: lets defer the currency issue to finance and the treasurer.
[12:20] Rose Springvale: Bagheera?
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:20] Bagheera Kristan: About a week ago, there was a fellow citizen building on my land at 1000m, I went to speak with him but he went “Away” so I ejected him and his objects – but I felt badly because I think he may have been there temporarily to pray. I wonder if a rez time can be extended to CDS community property, allowing citizens to rez for about 10-15 minutes (or whatever we think is best)?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: that would mean turning on auto return Bagheera, and we have a problem with that with the number of builders in CDS
[12:20] Bagheera Kristan: okay? I didn’t know
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: if we do that all prins not set to group will get send back
[12:21] Pip Torok: Bags, you were right to eject him if you were owner and he was taken your prim-allowance …
[12:21] Kaseido Quandry: you can set a longer timer for *your* property tho
[12:21] Rose Springvale: all objects not owned by the land owner would be returned. yes
[12:21] Bagheera Kristan: okay, thank you
[12:21] Pip Torok: (taken=taking)
[12:21] Rose Springvale: and there are public places people can use, just refer him to one of the exec team, they will find a place
[12:22] Bagheera Kristan: noted, thank you
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, if you oset any time other than “0” then ALL prims not set properly to group will return.
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: yep, that’d be a nice chance to engage with people who want to do things here
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: as rose says, that’s a problem…
[12:22] Rose Springvale: but there are public prims and public land, so just need to redirect folks
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy, very true – I’ve done that – *cough* once *cough*
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: best thing is to periodically “sweep” your property and see if there are any prims you don’t want there.
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: yeah, we’ve all done that ….once
[12:22] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[12:23] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: hehe yes
[12:23] Rose Springvale: yes Rosie?
[12:23] Rosie Gray: sorry just wondering if it’s written down anywhere where these public rez places are
[12:23] Rosie Gray: I didn’t know there were any
[12:24] Rose Springvale: there isn’t a sand box per se, but all land owned by rudeen edo is public land. Just check with the chancellor
[12:24] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:24] Rose Springvale: or the guild too, they have some land
[12:24] Rosie Gray: so it’s not exactly publicized
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lets move to the agenda now
[12:24] Rose Springvale: some folks need to leave at 1, so we can take more questions later
[12:24] Rosie Gray: yes sorry
[12:24] Rose Springvale: Any additions or corrections to the Agenda?
[12:25] Rose Springvale: seeing none, we’ll proceed as printed
[12:25] Rose Springvale: For informational purposes, the online indicators have been updated as well as the AA group titles
[12:25] Rose Springvale: CDS groups still need update i see
[12:26] Rose Springvale: we’ll get those fixed asap
[12:26] Rose Springvale: any other administrative details from the RA?
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Then lets move to old business
[12:26] Arria Perreault: there are 7day votes
[12:27] Rose Springvale: yes, there were and they were posted with the summaries.
[12:27] Arria Perreault: for this meeting I mean
[12:27] Rose Springvale: the only vote affected by 7 day votes was that of the Chancellor. The vote total was 6-6-1
[12:28] Rose Springvale: yes, there are for this meeting, thanks. their votes will be recorded. I’ll ask if you have requested 7 day that you register your vote on the RA discussion thread, instead of general discussion please.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: As it stands we are deadlocked on the chancellor vote
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: We did not elect a chancellor
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I motion we have a revote
[12:29] Timo Gufler: we have a chancellor
[12:29] Rose Springvale: there is a motion to revote on the chancellor election. is there a second/
[12:29] Pip Torok: /mw supports Timo
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The constitution requires that we elect a chancellor not hold one over
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:30] Rose Springvale: thank you, Discussion?
[12:30] Arria Perreault: were both candidates informed that we will vote about this point today?
[12:30] Timo Gufler: but we tried to vote for a new one but that failed
[12:30] Rose Springvale: it is on the agenda
[12:30] Arria Perreault: a 7 day vote was expected
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: I saw it on the agenda
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol notes that 7 day vote was a tie
[12:30] Rose Springvale: 7 day votes will be honored arria, no issue
[12:30] Arria Perreault: maybe someone doesnt read every day
[12:30] Rose Springvale: discussion on the motion?
[12:31] Kaseido Quandry: maybe reading the agenda is someone’s job?
[12:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:31] Rose Springvale: not the point. 7 day votes will all be honored
[12:31] Arria Perreault: a mail would have been polite
[12:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:32] Kaseido Quandry: Rose, please send us engraved invitations each week asking us to be minimally compentent? It’s *soooo* easy to forget…..
[12:32] Rose Springvale: the agenda was included in the group notice, all people have the option of receiving those in email
[12:32] Rose Springvale: now now
[12:32] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on the motion?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: shall we move to vote then?
[12:33] Rose Springvale: All in favor of Sonja Strom as chancellor say aye please
[12:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:33] Pip Torok: aye
[12:33] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:33] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:34] Rose Springvale: thank you. All in favor of Cindy Ecksol as chancellor, say aye please
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:35] Kaseido Quandry: .
[12:36] Rose Springvale: abstentions?
[12:36] Rose Springvale: smiels
[12:36] Rose Springvale: chair votes for cindy, and seeing as she’s crashed, she’ll have 7 day as well
[12:36] Rose Springvale: lets move on then, and see if 7 day votes break the deadlock
[12:36] Rose Springvale: Term priorities
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I have a remark about a commission which was created during the last meeting
[12:37] Timo Gufler: does this mean, we vote as many times until we don’t result a tie?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Back to the agenda list, we’ve been requested by the SC to make sure all the loose ends in the election process are tied up well in advance of the elections
[12:37] Rose Springvale: you may remark abotu old business later arria, and timo, its a democracy, if people want to keep making motions, we’ll keep voting
[12:38] Arria Perreault: it was a remark
[12:38] Rose Springvale: Gwyneth has agreed to chair such a commission. Does anyone wish to move that it be created?
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: so moveed
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: *moved
[12:38] Rose Springvale: kas, can you give me language please
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry moves to create an elections commission to clarify procedures, to be chaired by Gwyneth Llewellyn
[12:39] Rose Springvale: thank you. Second?
[12:39] Arria Perreault: what is the mission of the commission?
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: I second
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:39] Rose Springvale: clarify election procedures
[12:39] Rose Springvale: discussion
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I have also send a request to the SC
[12:40] Arria Perreault: but I did not get any news
[12:40] Rose Springvale: does that have relevance to this motion Arria?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: it’s a related to this question
[12:40] Rose Springvale: okay
[12:40] Rose Springvale: do you want to share your concern?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:40] Rose Springvale: you have the floor
[12:41] Arria Perreault: during the last term, we have voted a constitutionnal amendment and a bill about campaigning. The constitutional amendment did not pass, but the bill did
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I have asked the SC to see if the bill is valid or not
[12:42] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evenin Kas
[12:42] Rose Springvale: m understnading is that unless flagged, the bill is valid after 14 days, but i’m sure the SC will advice you of that
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening Lil !
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: hi stui
[12:42] Rose Springvale: hi Stui
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I think that the SC should solve this issue too
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou Tor !
[12:42] Arria Perreault: done
[12:43] Delia Lake raises her hand
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hi Rosy !
[12:43] Rose Springvale: thanks. Delia?
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Tor is grey an naked
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy
[12:43] Kaseido Quandry grins
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: don´t tell him but I see him Ruthed
[12:43] Delia Lake: Arria did make a request to the SC re the bill that passed. we are discussing it and will have a ruling very soon
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: geech
[12:44] Delia Lake: however, there are still many implementation issues that are not specified in actually running an election
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:44] Arria Perreault: Delia, don’t you discuss this point in a public meeting?
[12:44] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on creation of the Electoral commission?
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s good to share
[12:44] Delia Lake: it will be posted on the SC Discussion on the Forum
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: we have a long bench
[12:45] Rose Springvale: shall we call the question then?
[12:45] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:45] Rose Springvale: here is the motion: create an elections commission to clarify procedures, to be chaired by Gwyneth Llewellyn
[12:46] Rose Springvale: all in favor please say aye
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:46] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:46] Pip Torok: aye
[12:46] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:46] Rose Springvale: opposed?
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: sorry was in IM
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I missed my chance
[12:47] Rose Springvale: you can vote, aye or nay
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: I vote aye for the comission
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll say Aye to GL
[12:47] Rose Springvale: thank you, Motion carries
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can’t have GL bored
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: keep her busy
[12:47] Kaseido Quandry smiles
[12:48] Rose Springvale: I’d like to remind everyoe that creating these commissions is only the administrative step. WE need participation at the committee level to make them work
[12:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll try
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: yes!
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry is psyched to join the working groups
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: we lost Mu
[12:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t promise
[12:48] Arria Perreault: at the end of the meeting, we will have 7 committees
[12:48] Rose Springvale: it would be very helpful if we could get them all calendared too
[12:48] Rose Springvale: yes but that is how work gets done
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: omg yes please
[12:49] Arria Perreault: we are 13
[12:49] Rose Springvale: perhaps you can take that on Arria
[12:49] Rose Springvale: making sure the committee meetings make our calendar
[12:49] Arria Perreault: I did not get any offer
[12:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s todays special offer
[12:49] Rose Springvale: hm. thought i just asked. but okay
[12:49] Rose Springvale: lets move on, we’ll get the chancellor the information, she can deal with it i’m sure
[12:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who is the chancellor ?
[12:50] Rose Springvale: We have had several commerce groups over the years. some have been active and successful
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja is until we finally have a winner of the election.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Mu
[12:50] Rose Springvale: others have come up with plans that have not proceeded
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thanks crashed
[12:51] Rose Springvale: we’ve got two RA res who would like to try again with a commerce commission
[12:51] Arria Perreault: France : Mexico 0:1
[12:51] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m very commercial
[12:51] Timo Gufler: hehe, Arria
[12:51] Rose Springvale: The mission of the commerce commission would be to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS
[12:51] Rose Springvale: Stui and Lilith have volunteered to lead the commission
[12:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just the pretty face
[12:52] Rose Springvale: and bring us whatever legislation they thing would serve the interests of this part of our population
[12:52] Rose Springvale: is there a motion to create it?
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: lol Stui a pretty face with a smart brain
[12:52] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[12:52] Rose Springvale: lets get a motion first arria
[12:52] Rose Springvale: then discussion
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: I move to to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS, with Stui and Lilith as chairs
[12:53] Rose Springvale: thanks kas
[12:53] Rose Springvale: second?
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: woops, to create a commerce commission to….
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:53] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:53] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:53] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Woo hoo
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Since years, I try to explane that SL commerce have evolved. We have to take in account the Xstreet platform
[12:54] Arria Perreault: commerce is less and less local
[12:54] Arria Perreault: I also consider that commerce is not the good concept
[12:54] Arria Perreault: where are the services?
[12:55] Rose Springvale: services?
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui?
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: some of your citizen can also sell services, not only goods
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:55] Rose Springvale: that is also commerce
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: Xstreet is only one tool to sell something in SL
[12:55] Arria Perreault: for example the musicians
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor is going to open a escort agency
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: also you need a place where people can look at your items
[12:55] Arria Perreault: it’s a businees to be musician in SL
[12:56] Kaseido Quandry: Arria’s got a good point , and I hope she participates in the commission
[12:56] Rose Springvale: Commerce is a division of trade or production which deals with the exchange of goods and services from producer to final consumer OR commerce is the exchage of goods and services from the producer to the consumer. …
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Lil, I prefer in world shopping
[12:56] Arria Perreault: they should be included in the reflexions of this commission
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that it’s key that we look at the quality of product presentation in our stores
[12:56] Kaseido Quandry: I’m also happy to get the communications commission coordinating with what you do
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I would assume that.
[12:56] Rose Springvale: everyone in the community is welcomed and encouraged to participate, that’s the whole point
[12:57] Rose Springvale: all meetings will be open, in varying time zones and days of the week, so that we CAN have all particpate
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, things like central landing points.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to ensure that if we are to exploit Xstreet, that when it brings people to CDS that they perhaps are encouraged to shop around
[12:57] Rose Springvale: then the chairs will report back to the RA for actions
[12:57] Arria Perreault: we will spend our sl life in commissions
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: better than in RA.
[12:57] Arria Perreault: no parties anymore
[12:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:57] Timo Gufler: agrees with Arria
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: I´ve a lot of ideas how to bring more customers
[12:57] Arria Perreault: only commission meetings
[12:58] Arria Perreault: great term
[12:58] Rose Springvale: you are free to post on the forums
[12:58] Kaseido Quandry: omg not work!
[12:58] Kaseido Quandry faints from exhaustion
[12:58] Rose Springvale: other discussion?
[12:59] Arria Perreault: as AA is non profit, is the commerce still allowed?
[12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well commissions that improve the efficiency of the sims
[12:59] Pip Torok: good point Arria
[12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and make them ultimately more pleasant will lead to profitability and self sufficiency
[12:59] Ranma Tardis: is it the job of government to promote the business intrests of the few and ingore the needs of the majority?
[12:59] Delia Lake is imagining fun commission meetings with live music playing
[12:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:00] Kaseido Quandry: woot, Delia! I’ll hire the caterers!
[13:00] Rose Springvale: folks we have volunteers who want to pursue this area of interest to them.
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and besides from stabilising influences of reassuring the community thru action
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I had a question, I think
[13:00] Rose Springvale: everyont doesn’t have to participate
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can deliver better parties from the proceeds of increased appeal
[13:00] Arria Perreault: if AA is non-profit, is the commerce still allowed?
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: and dancers and bonbons
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:00] Rose Springvale: and i think your question is one for the commission to discuss, not us in forming a commission
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps the businesses will have launch parties
[13:00] Rose Springvale: education comes in many forms though i think
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: many do
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I agree with that. It’s an issue that this commission must adress
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe I can persuade a gay club to migrate
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the right incentive
[13:01] Ranma Tardis: still business in a private concern over o public one
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: only if it’s in theme, Stui, lol
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they are great for loyal traffic
[13:01] Arria Perreault: it’s private, Ramna
[13:01] Rose Springvale: are we ready for the vote establishing the commission?
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha the romans were all up for a bit of gay
[13:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:02] Arria Perreault: CDS should offer good conditions. that’s all
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: righ
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: t
[13:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP have a little faith
[13:02] Rose Springvale: okay, time is up for discussion
[13:02] Rose Springvale: here is the motion: to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS, with Stui and Lilith as chairs
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I believe only in facts
[13:03] Rose Springvale: all in favor, say aye, opposed, nay
[13:03] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:03] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:03] Timo Gufler: nay
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I don’t how many commissions about commerce we already had
[13:03] Pip Torok: nay
[13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[13:03] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: so let´s give it another try hehe
[13:04] Rose Springvale: chair vote aye, and it goes to 7 day
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: so if we fail before we should jsut not try?
[13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Lil if it’d been you on your own you would have had more support *LOL*
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: last term Pat encouraged me and Sol to renew the comerce commision
[13:04] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hard to belive this is a problem.
[13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I apologise
[13:04] Pip Torok: it is, Tor
[13:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:05] Arria Perreault: Lilith, if CDS goes non-profit, we can close our shops or we sell only as non-profit
[13:05] Arria Perreault: so why a commission?
[13:05] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, we might accomplish something other than the endless circle-jerk, and then where would we all be?!
[13:05] Rose Springvale: now, i have listed three more commisions,why on earth woudl you say that?
[13:05] Timo Gufler: who says the CDS will go to non-profit?
[13:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe we should amend the chairs *LOL*
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS is not going non-profit. Geesh
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: I think that´s not true Aria
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I don’t know
[13:05] You decline Seraph City from A group member named Pumpkin Tripsa.
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I said “if2
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[13:05] Arria Perreault: “if”
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Sudane explained Non profid and shop rentals a few month age
[13:05] Timo Gufler: the CDS is indepent of any external orgnanization right now
[13:06] Rose Springvale: the remaining commissions on our agenda are things that have come from other citizens
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: it´s would still be possible
[13:06] Rose Springvale: we can discuss them or not
[13:06] Pip Torok: and long may it remain so …
[13:06] Jamie Palisades smiles. Except the ones that own it already?
[13:07] Timo Gufler: oh yes… Linden Lab
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I hope it stays so, Timo
[13:07] Timo Gufler: but we can’t help that
[13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:07] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to talk about covenant review?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: France: Mexico 0:2
[13:07] Jamie Palisades: ?me looks around for Mses. Erato and Llewellyn. Some things can be helped, but not others, eh Timo?
[13:07] Rose Springvale: this came from a citizen, via the forums
[13:07] Rose Springvale: hi jamie
[13:08] Jamie Palisades luaghs — you want to do a commission, Ropse? I can help, if that’s what the RA wants. God knows it;s overdue
[13:08] Rose Springvale: if you all would like to revive the corporate ownership commission, we can add it to the list for an even 8
[13:08] Pip Torok: what would be the purpose of this commission?
[13:08] Rose Springvale: which are you volunteering for Jamie?
[13:08] Rose Springvale: covenants or ownership?
[13:08] Pip Torok: covenants
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Convenant review is for the Guild
[13:08] Rose Springvale: actually no
[13:08] Jamie Palisades chuckles. Chat lag. Doe sthe RA want to do covenant review and harmonization? hahah yes, they;ve done so well.
[13:08] Rose Springvale: the guild made that very clear.
[13:09] Arria Perreault: in your program, you announced also that you would revivify the Guild
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we have had a request from a citizen to look at the covenants.
[13:09] Rose Springvale: indeed, and the guild met last week. and will meet again i believe after this week
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: true, the guild wants RA to set the theme and such
[13:09] Rose Springvale: no
[13:09] Pip Torok: “look at” means what?
[13:09] Rose Springvale: the guild doesn’t want to deal with covenants
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we have 11 sims
[13:10] Rose Springvale: and 6 different covenants
[13:10] Timo Gufler: but what if RA wants guild to deal with the covenants?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: some of them are accessible through the land tabs
[13:10] Jamie Palisades: Then I guess you better all go to meetings there and help Moon get a quorum
[13:10] Rose Springvale: i think, if i understand moons position, they will decline as this is legislative
[13:10] Arria Perreault: can we propose convenant for the AA sims too?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: we can ignore it.
[13:10] Rose Springvale: of course, AA is CDS
[13:11] Jamie Palisades: only if you don’t kill the merger, dears.
[13:11] Timo Gufler: hehe
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I am temptaded …
[13:11] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:11] Arria Perreault: temptated
[13:11] Kaseido Quandry: we love you too Arria
[13:11] Rose Springvale: i thnk you mean tempted
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I know, Kas
[13:11] Rose Springvale: so … no on covenant review?
[13:11] Jamie Palisades: ANyway, suffice to say, ladies & gentlemen, if there is going to be a covenant review, happy to help. It was key unfinished business, last time I looked. And yes, it woudl need to include AA to make any sense, unless you guys kjill it before then.
[13:12] Arria Perreault: I mean: I like the idea to write a convenant for AA sims
[13:12] Rose Springvale: thank you jamie
[13:12] Rose Springvale: there is a covenant in place there at least… nto so with NFS lol
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I bet you do AP
[13:12] Rose Springvale: folks
[13:12] Rose Springvale: lets either have a motion or move on
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Jamie, we don’t have this power …
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps you could visit it some time
[13:12] Jamie Palisades: Arria, you do, over AA, until you throw them out
[13:12] Timo Gufler: if there would be a covenant committe, I propose Jamie chairs it
[13:13] Rose Springvale: we’d need a motion for such a committee first
[13:13] Arria Perreault: I have visited AA and I like what I have seen
[13:13] Timo Gufler: oh yes
[13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would propose to invite AP to AA to fact find before recommending her input
[13:13] Rose Springvale: this is how we get things done folks
[13:13] Timo Gufler: or oh no
[13:13] Arria Perreault: who will be the chair?
[13:13] Jamie Palisades: Timo,, as it;s a tough issue here, why don’t i volunteer to write up what such a commitee would do, if it exists, and Forum post it, you guys can read that they think about it next meeting?
[13:13] Kaseido Quandry: I like that
[13:14] Jamie Palisades: *read it and then thikn about it
[13:14] Pip Torok agrees
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I volunteer to be chair
[13:14] Rose Springvale: that’s a great idea and generous offer, thanks
[13:14] Timo Gufler: yes, Jamie
[13:14] Rose Springvale: lets take a look at what jamie comes up with, and determine the form we need for further researche
[13:14] Jamie Palisades smiles. I’ll limit myself to writing the description as a proposal for now. Good.
[13:14] Rose Springvale: thanks jamie
[13:15] Rose Springvale: moving on… Ethics and conflicts of interest have been a major issue this term
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I have read lots of what Jamie said abt covenants and liked his approach.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: and it is time we have a cds policy on it
[13:16] Timo Gufler: policy?
[13:16] Rose Springvale: The person who seems to be the most concerned about this is Pat, so i’d move that we set up a conflict/ethics committie to come up with a cds policy, and let Pat tell us what he thinks we need
[13:16] Timo Gufler: another commitee…
[13:16] Kaseido Quandry: that sounds terrific
[13:16] Rose Springvale: best if we all know rather than be accused.
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: A do’s and don’t for office holders.
[13:16] Arria Perreault: what that means? about convenant?
[13:16] Rose Springvale: covenant has been dealt with for now, We are talking about conflicts of interest and ethics
[13:17] Timo Gufler: we should be able to make decisons without ten committees!
[13:17] Arria Perreault: what did we decide?
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: committies involve more residents
[13:17] Ranma Tardis: should it not be done by the residents of each sim instead of ditating from the central government?
[13:17] Rose Springvale: timo, we are representative democracy. when we have the fact from the committed, then we make decisions
[13:17] Kaseido Quandry: we don’t need “decisions,” we need *work*
[13:17] Rose Springvale: we dont’ shoot from the hip
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: and have more time to work something out
[13:18] Timo Gufler: who wants to spend all his/her virtual time sitting in committees?
[13:18] Arria Perreault: Rose, can you tell me what we/you decide about convenants?
[13:18] Jamie Palisades: (Tor, all “CDS commissions” have rules requiring that we let all citizens attend & participate. Been in our laws for a long time.)
[13:18] Kaseido Quandry: Timo, nobody forced you to take this job
[13:18] Rose Springvale: arria, sure, let me cut and paste
[13:18] Timo Gufler: but if you want to infcluence, you must sit there
[13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP well you want to chair a commission upon covenants you tell us what you’d decide
[13:18] Kaseido Quandry: if you want to step down because you can’t handle it, that’s ok
[13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m rivetted to know
[13:18] Rose Springvale: [13:14] Rose Springvale: lets take a look at what jamie comes up with, and determine the form we need for further researche
[13:14] Jamie Palisades smiles. I’ll limit myself to writing the description as a proposal for now. Good.
[13:19] Arria Perreault: it was your proposal
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we did not vote
[13:19] Rose Springvale: okay folks lets keep moving here.
[13:19] Rose Springvale: no
[13:19] Timo Gufler: how were decisions made before committees?
[13:19] Pip Torok notes that Kas is quick to suggest the absence of RA members …
[13:19] Rose Springvale: we accepted jamies offer to write up a proposal and post o nthe forums
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we= ?
[13:19] Rose Springvale: then we’ll discuss again
[13:19] Arria Perreault: I did not vote
[13:19] Rose Springvale: there was no motion
[13:19] Jamie Palisades: naah, no acceptance, really, just an offe3r made in public RA can always vote it down, or choose not to act.
[13:20] Rose Springvale: this was unstructured discussion
[13:20] Kaseido Quandry: I am, Pip – we ran for office, we have a duty to do something, and not just play hall monitor
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: notes that Pip is quick to point out the obvious
[13:20] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:20] Rose Springvale: now
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we don’t need a commission on conflicts and ethics
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we can go on calling each other names and pointing fingers
[13:20] Rose Springvale: but that’s not particularly flattering to our community
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I have a talent for inspiring that
[13:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I did last term
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: odd that the side so concerned about ethics in the past now does not want a commission.
[13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps I can foster it
[13:21] Timo Gufler: what would that committee do? write the CDS version of Bible/Quaran?
[13:21] Rose Springvale: if you’d like to have a policy, or talk about it more…
[13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am like a pariah
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I don’t think a commission will solve the question of conflicts of interest
[13:21] Kaseido Quandry: TImo, there isn’t an organization in the world that doesn’t have a written code of conduct
[13:22] Timo Gufler: majority should not decide what is ethical wnad what is not, since it’s question about conscience
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the commission coud define it for CDS
[13:22] Pip Torok: the problem is that victims of name-calling leave and are not around to support critics of this practice
[13:22] Timo Gufler: The CDS Ethics?
[13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: a commission could arrange some education perhaps
[13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha but then the RA would vote about expulsion of a citizen from the sims
[13:22] Arria Perreault: to list examples
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: This is a common issue in RL governments
[13:22] Kaseido Quandry: Pip’s absolutely right – without a clear polcy, there’s a race to the bottom in accusations and name calling
[13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: surely that must have a set code of conduct implied
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: and always here as well.
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or else the citizenship will be running wild
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: imagine that
[13:23] Rose Springvale: Pip, would you be interested in leading some discussion on this?
[13:23] Timo Gufler: if we have a policy then it will be time for interpreting it
[13:23] Pip Torok: yes
[13:23] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d be frolickin with a view to never getting a bollocking
[13:23] Pip Torok: but via the Forums …
[13:23] Rose Springvale: Would you like it to be informal or as a commision?
[13:23] Rose Springvale: no
[13:23] Rose Springvale: i’m not okay with forums only discussions
[13:23] Kaseido Quandry: no, in SL
[13:23] Timo Gufler: all policies have loopholes
[13:23] Pip Torok: it wd be a _discussion_
[13:23] Rose Springvale: based on the number of citizens not accessing the froums
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree, we are an in-world experience.
[13:24] Pip Torok: informal, not a commission
[13:24] Kaseido Quandry: meet openly in SL, or don’t do it
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: having english not as my first language I´ve problems to take part in forum discussions
[13:24] Rose Springvale: Kas, would you like to run something n world if pip doesn’t want to?
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: imo there should be meetings inworld
[13:25] Pip Torok: why Kas … we need extended arguments and thats difficult in chat
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to coordinate with Pat- maybe we can co-organize
[13:25] Pip Torok: but possible in the Forums
[13:25] Rose Springvale: access, accountbility, and action folks
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: you can always submit notecards Pip
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: and the forums have serious issues with the kind of behavior that doesn’t happen as much face to face
[13:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because the forums are often degenerative in discussion
[13:25] Callipygian Christensen: The two avenues are not mutually exclusive..have meetings and discuss what comes up on the forums as well
[13:25] Rose Springvale: okay, so now we have Pip volunteering to start a forum thread, and Kas will hold a meeting in world, iviting pat to participate
[13:25] Rose Springvale: with her
[13:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and rather prone to irrelevance and derailing
[13:26] Rose Springvale: are we satisfied with that?
[13:26] Rose Springvale: stui
[13:26] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: it’s a compromise
[13:26] Rose Springvale: can i have a motion so we can summarise this?
[13:26] Arria Perreault: we don’t vote anymmore in RA …
[13:26] Rose Springvale: arria, we will
[13:26] Rose Springvale: just not withouth information from the citiens
[13:26] Rose Springvale: citizens
[13:26] Kaseido Quandry: move to begin a discussion on ethics, me and Pat to coordinate inworld meetings, Pip to launch a forum thread
[13:27] Rose Springvale: thank you. second?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[13:27] Pip Torok: seconded
[13:27] Rose Springvale: thanks In favor, Aye, opposed nay
[13:27] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:27] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:27] Pip Torok: aye
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:27] Timo Gufler: aye
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:27] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:27] Rose Springvale: stui?
[13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
[13:28] Rose Springvale: thanks Motion carries. Remember that each of these commisions will be the basis for discussion and legislation at future RA meetings
[13:28] Rose Springvale: there is method here
[13:28] Arria Perreault: (still no commission for Arria …)
[13:28] Rose Springvale: we plan the work, then work the plan
[13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: wheels out a cross
[13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles. there is still the citizen ship commission… interested in chairing that Arria?
[13:29] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[13:29] Rose Springvale: okay, so if we get a motion and a mission for it…
[13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:30] Delia Lake hopes that any new citizenship commission will public and not a private workgroup with no log…….
[13:30] Arria Perreault: yes,maybe it’s not an important concern …
[13:31] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want to have this commission
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: I motion that we create a citizenship commission chaired by Arria.
[13:31] Rose Springvale: mission being?
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account of my experience of the last one
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll sit with Arria
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Its mission being to review the rules of citizenship and make recommendations to RA.
[13:31] Arria Perreault: define the conditions to have the citizenship in CDS
[13:31] Rose Springvale: all members of the RA and community are encouraged to participat
[13:32] Jamie Palisades raises hand – a question?
[13:32] Arria Perreault: on my right or on my left, Stui ?
[13:32] Rose Springvale: one moment jamie
[13:32] Rose Springvale: we’ll get the motion on the floor and then discuss
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP I’ll sit on your shoulders
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I second
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can carry me
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t mind
[13:32] Rose Springvale: discussion
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I am too weak for that
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m only 112lbs soaking wet
[13:32] Rose Springvale: smiles stui…
[13:33] Arria Perreault: keep your wings then
[13:33] Rose Springvale: any discussion on the citizenship commission
[13:33] Jamie Palisades raises that hand again
[13:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have the 3rd transcript of the last one yet ?
[13:33] Rose Springvale: jamie go on
[13:33] Jamie Palisades: is the idea here to, among other things, solve the landless- citizen-by-being-someone’s-buddy-in-a-big-group issue? Are there other specific points that are seen as trouble areas?
[13:34] Rose Springvale: yes, that and the issues of group citizenship where the group is more than a buddy in a big group
[13:34] Arria Perreault: it belongs to this, yes
[13:34] Rose Springvale: We have two groups in Al Andalus that want to have input on this commission
[13:34] Rose Springvale: muhammed represents one, Delia the other
[13:34] Rose Springvale: so please try to hold meetings when they can participate
[13:34] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:34] Rose Springvale: there may be others in CDS as well
[13:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thank you
[13:35] Jamie Palisades nods. OK, I told Desmond that 985 caledon ISC members can’t be citizens, through one Caledon house, last year. Smile
[13:35] Delia Lake would like to be part of the citizenship commission, yes
[13:35] Rose Springvale: it was 1456 i think and no one certified them!
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: I´ll try to come also
[13:35] Arria Perreault: I will make advertising
[13:35] Rose Springvale: great. So shall we give them authority by voting on the motion?
[13:35] Jamie Palisades: (Nah, the other 400 are Kamiliah’s alts)
[13:36] Timo Gufler: we should not only make meeting times good for AA people but CDS people also
[13:36] Arria Perreault: everyone is welcome. meeting will be public. transcripts will be published
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would welcome Delia and muh to sit too
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the table is big and round
[13:36] Rose Springvale: i’ve asked that Timo, that each group try to meet at least three times
[13:36] Rose Springvale: one time for eu time zones, one for us, and one weekend if possible
[13:36] Rose Springvale: okay, ready to vote?
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:37] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[13:37] Pip Torok: lets vote
[13:38] Rose Springvale: motion reads:create a citizenship commission chaired by Arria. Its mission being to review the rules of citizenship and make recommendations to RA.
[13:38] Rose Springvale: in favor aye, opposed nay
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:38] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:39] Pip Torok: aye
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :p :p
[13:39] Timo Gufler: nay for committees (aye for Arria)
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I mean oui
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is that a yes or a no then Timo ?
[13:39] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:39] Timo Gufler: nay
[13:39] Rose Springvale: thank you motion carries.
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t confuse me too much
[13:39] Rose Springvale: end of commissions, unless someone has more?
[13:40] Timo Gufler: at least not me
[13:40] Arria Perreault: we can try to think about ..
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have a commission to end all commissions chaired by Timo ?
[13:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he seems eager to help
[13:40] Timo Gufler: good idea, Stui
[13:40] Rose Springvale: now, you all see that there is a lot of work to do
[13:40] Callipygian Christensen: hi Alexia
[13:40] Rose Springvale: we have a maximum of 24 meetings left
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: hi Alexia
[13:41] Rose Springvale: so let me knwo when you want to be on the calendar, and look at my proposed dates on the original notes.
[13:41] Kaseido Quandry: this is going to be a right mess if we don’t get the calendar working
[13:41] Rose Springvale: we will give RA time to you, and please look at the RA procedures on how to report back from commission
[13:41] Rose Springvale: if no one else will do it, i’ll make sure they are there kas
[13:42] Rose Springvale: any questiosn before we move on?
[13:42] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[13:42] Rose Springvale: Great. we are on taget to finish. is that the commission process Arria?
[13:43] Arria Perreault: yes, in rules of procedures of the RA
[13:43] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:43] Arria Perreault: (in the portal)
[13:43] Rose Springvale: the next item on the agenda is the operating agreement for for the al andalus sims
[13:44] Rose Springvale: AS you can see in the merger agreement, there was an option for CDS to create a non profit organization to hold the AA sims
[13:44] Rose Springvale: this is not a quick and easy process, but the merger can still be completed by virtue of an operating agreement between CDS and the estate owner of AA, Virtual Democracy Inc.
[13:45] Rose Springvale: So it would be good to have some people working on that
[13:45] Rose Springvale: do you want to discuss this?
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:45] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:46] Rose Springvale: Jamie, i know you didn’t come to make presentations, but would you be interested in helping us on this discussion, as there is concern that i’m not unbiased
[13:46] Rose Springvale: i probably should have asked that privately lol
[13:46] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[13:46] Jamie Palisades: nice
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: well, i WROE the mreger agreement
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: *wrote it
[13:47] Rose Springvale remembers
[13:47] Arria Perreault: I think we need also poeple from each opinion
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: so I am at least as biased as the people who lost the campaign to kill it
[13:47] Rose Springvale: right now we as CDS have a legal agreement
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: is that still a CDS anti-arab ovement now? or is AA considered a settled part of CDS?
[13:48] Jamie Palisades: becqauwe, yes, *legally*, you guys have to act within about a month
[13:48] Arria Perreault: no Jamie, the question is different
[13:48] Arria Perreault: I have a first question
[13:48] Jamie Palisades smiles., I will be happy, as the guy who designer the merger in a former role, to answer questions in the RA wishes, Rose.
[13:48] Jamie Palisades: *designed
[13:48] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[13:49] Jamie Palisades: *if
[13:49] Rose Springvale: go on arria
[13:49] muhammedyussif Wikinger: MY rises hand
[13:49] Arria Perreault: there are several lawyers in this room. I would like to know what is the validity of an agreement between VDI, rl org, and CDS that has no legal existence?
[13:49] Arria Perreault: I mean, it’s a bit like to get married with a ghost
[13:50] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:50] Timo Gufler: good point, Arria
[13:51] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t see a problem with its enforceablity – what the CDS is was clear to both parties, and would be to a judge
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: till death do us part
[13:51] Jamie Palisades smiles. Arria, what’s the enforceability of any CDS law in SL?
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I’m the police
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I AM THE LAW !
[13:52] Arria Perreault: may I remind you that there was an attempt to ban our Chancellor from any office
[13:52] Arria Perreault: for LL, CDS doesnt exist
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: no there wasn’t
[13:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which chancellor ?
[13:53] Rose Springvale: folks lets stay on topic
[13:53] Jamie Palisades: Sonja. and an attempt to throw out your LRA, Arria
[13:53] Pip Torok: yes there was, Tor
[13:53] Kaseido Quandry: are you claiming the CDS has no real existence, Arria?
[13:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which chancellor ?
[13:53] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve *said* you’re a roleplay fantasy, but really…
[13:53] Arria Perreault: no legal existence
[13:53] Rose Springvale: i’m a real person
[13:53] Timo Gufler: no existence in rl
[13:53] Rose Springvale: so is kas, stui
[13:53] Rose Springvale: jamie
[13:53] Rose Springvale: etc
[13:53] Rose Springvale: WE are the cds
[13:53] Arria Perreault: if I make a contract, I have to make it with someone who is able to make it
[13:54] Rose Springvale: legally, a joing venture
[13:54] Rose Springvale: our chancellor is the elected representative to make contracts
[13:54] Rose Springvale: thats the terms of our deal
[13:54] Rose Springvale: as citizens in cds
[13:54] Rose Springvale: joint*
[13:54] Timo Gufler: how about we Europeans?
[13:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well are we going to meet in a railway carriage on the french german border ?
[13:54] Rose Springvale: same thing
[13:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll bring a bic
[13:54] Jamie Palisades smiles, rolls eyes, raises hand.
[13:55] Rose Springvale: sorry, you are leading this
[13:55] Rose Springvale: go on jamie
[13:55] Jamie Palisades: OK. Tow postsw.
[13:55] Jamie Palisades: —
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: Here’s where I think you guys really are:
1. There was a merger. AA *is* in CDS.
2. But some admin arrangements like EO will not get moved until the one year anniversay, so that revocatioon is feasible, if someone revokes.
3. That deadline is coming up in a few weks.
4. CDS voted in a nonbinding referendum not to break the merger.
5. The CDA RA oc9ud sitll act, under its own terms by some specific vote – but not for much longer.
6. I have no idea whether AA has or will make a decision. CDS should ask AA how the hell that will happen,. in my opinion.
7. The move to breask the merger within CDS, and continued attacks, have created bad feelings – and bad beahvior – in both directionrs that are obviously mnaking you people deeply split, and largely deadlocked. I must say, that disappoints me.
8. Still, here are CDS choices: and I think it’s the RA that must act, if anyone acts.
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: —
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: i THINK you have three options only
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: a. RA votes to end the merger before the deadline.
b. RA does nothing – no vote, and leaves VDI in place as owner, asks them to turn over EO to Sudane.
c. RA creates new nonprofit thingie and tells AA to put itself in THAT one. (This was something Gwyneth said was possible, here, a few months ago, she made some reference to other nonprofits which I guess Beta controls, shrug).
[13:57] Jamie Palisades: Note – you do nothing, we end up with (b), and your choice under CDSS law, supervising the Executive, about the EO consolidation.
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: (I guess you coulod do iut with (b) and leave it with Rose too, but I doubt she wants it, and alsop, I thin the SC hgas not decided whether that would be permanently OK.)
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: —-
[13:58] muhammedyussif Wikinger: permission to speak?
[13:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tinkle or get off the potty
[13:59] Jamie Palisades: i;m done
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie has done it
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he’s silenced the RA
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or I’m crashing
[14:00] Jamie Palisades: Not the first time. Muhammad has a question?
[14:00] Rose Springvale: go on muhammed
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Go on MUH !!
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Reading the agreement I am thinking
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: the US non profit regulations seem very complicated
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: but will Linden lab have easier to accept an US non profit organisation
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: compared to an European?
[14:01] Kaseido Quandry: Muh, as of a while back, LL would *only* accept US nonprofits
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: done
[14:01] Jamie Palisades: (i agree with muhammad – canadian rules were much easier, for example – i understand VDI has fully qualified, though, under its law. )
[14:01] Kaseido Quandry: I was advising a South African NGO at the time
[14:01] Arria Perreault: the first one was not a canadian one?
[14:01] Timo Gufler: would you like to set the AA under a Finnish non-profit?
[14:02] Jamie Palisades: Kas, that has not been true for several years AFAik
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript from the RA meeting, June 17, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:49 pm
[14:02] Kaseido Quandry: ok
[14:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: or swedish as I know best
[14:02] Timo Gufler: exactly Muhammed
[14:02] Jamie Palisades raises hanbd for a further comment when the topic has completed
[14:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: But when we have an US why don’t use it
[14:02] Arria Perreault: I though Michel made a canadian rl
[14:03] Arria Perreault: org*
[14:03] Rose Springvale: vdi is fully qualified in the US. all the documents for VDI have been posted for review and several people have done so
[14:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: before or after he tied himself to a moose and rode out of town ?
[14:04] Jamie Palisades: (muhammed: you can; Arria: he did. ) I am afraid that the opponents of AA disagreed with keeping VDI only because they did not like which people run it. It would be like a personal trust decision in Sudane as Treasurer. And that question, about CDS being hostage to ANY one RL person, is a very serious one for CDS.
[14:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thewn it is only the members of the VDI tht is questionable
[14:04] Jamie Palisades: (exactly, you coul dmake its board someone else, if VDI wants to vote itself into something different)
[14:05] Rose Springvale: let me try to pull this back to the topic
[14:05] Jamie Palisades: (but honestly I would not recommend making its board the RA – for several stability reasons.)
[14:05] Kaseido Quandry: yes, but apparently the people most opposed, are also unwilling to disclose their RL identity or become legally responsible
[14:05] Rose Springvale: even if cds wishes to do some other organization, it can’t do it in 4 weeks
[14:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I see
[14:05] Rose Springvale: so we need to have an agreement between the organizations on how operations will proceed
[14:05] Arria Perreault: Jamie, many people would like to know the intentions of VDI
[14:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: So change VDI so all can trust it
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: Muhammad, that’d be a good outcome.
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear Mu
[14:06] Rose Springvale: it is now 4 :06
[14:07] Rose Springvale: this will need further discussion
[14:07] Rose Springvale: oops
[14:07] Rose Springvale: 206 slt
[14:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I would think to get something done AP
[14:07] Jamie Palisades: I;d like to know the intentions of Beta Technologies, too, FWIW
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[14:07] Delia Lake: @ Arria, the intentions of VDI?
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: and I’d like an independent audit of our financials
[14:07] Jamie Palisades: BUt that’s a great point, ARria. Has anyone directed a question to them?
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: ….and a pony.
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps we can vote in a np called ITO
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I am doing it now
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: Want a concrete suggestion? Have thee of you representing a range of viewpoints on the RA meeting with the VDI board.
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: *three
[14:08] Yekaterina Kalchek: Excellent idea, Jmie
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I am ready to meet the VDI board
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: sent three who are NOT rockthrowers, and have not devoted themselves ot its destructuon, if you want a real converstaion
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ITO – Inertia thru opposition
[14:08] Kaseido Quandry: that it is
[14:08] Arria Perreault: in a public meeting
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: i am not so sure about public meteing
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: transcr4ipted yes
[14:09] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, it is the next step
[14:09] Yekaterina Kalchek: In a minuted meeting with the minutes circulated?
[14:09] Arria Perreault: we can adress our questions
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: but open to infantile behavior, maybe not
[14:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am rather of the opinion that if AP wasn’t opposed there’d be no issue
[14:10] Rose Springvale: may i suggest that we table this to next week
[14:10] Arria Perreault: I have questions, Stui
[14:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[14:10] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to be there – as I’m going to be writing a law journal article addressing some of the questions Arria’s raised
[14:10] Rose Springvale: and those of you with queries for VDI write them down
[14:10] Jamie Palisades: really? I thought Pat & Gywn were the Kill AA team supreme shrug. WHy not have the RA send Pip, Arria and Lilith?
[14:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: constructive ones AP ?
[14:10] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:10] Rose Springvale: conflict of interests?
[14:11] Jamie Palisades chuckles. find me someone in here without one
[14:11] Arria Perreault: I have constructive questions, yes
[14:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha well perhaps you can make them concise too
[14:11] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:11] Arria Perreault: it is very important for citizen
[14:11] Rose Springvale: lets see them on the forums, and determine who the best representatives to send to a meeting might be
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP it’d be one of the first time you actually championed citizen involvement
[14:12] Arria Perreault: I have no conflict of interest
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[14:12] Jamie Palisades: i can only ofger my personal obeservtaion that Pip, Arria and Lilith, while they;re all biased in their own ways, all have longstanding records as constructive, polite and acting in good faith, in my view. Pick three others if you want. But send someone , you guys need to TALK
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you visited AA as much as you talk about it
[14:12] Arria Perreault: having an opinion is not a conflict of interest
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you’d perhaps be better qualified to understand it
[14:12] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input jamie
[14:12] Rose Springvale: folks
[14:12] Rose Springvale: we are out of time
[14:12] Arria Perreault: Stui, I have visited AA indetail
[14:12] Yekaterina Kalchek: I feel we should listen to Jamie
[14:12] Rose Springvale: next meeting will be a week from saturday
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps if you weren’t putting your toes into the water you’d get wet
[14:13] Rose Springvale: at noon. we will take up the conversation from there
[14:13] Rose Springvale: any announcements befroe we adjourn?
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: rather than splashing in the puddles and splashing the onlookers
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: yes – communications commission meeting, tomorrow at 10am SLT
[14:13] Arria Perreault: I have one announcement
[14:14] Rose Springvale: thanks kas, go on arria
[14:14] Arria Perreault: Primtionnary at 8pm in the Amphitheater
[14:14] Arria Perreault: right to build issue is solved
[14:14] Kaseido Quandry: woot! I’ll be there if I can
[14:14] Rose Springvale: are you leadign that Arria?
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: tonight SLT, Arria?
[14:15] Arria Perreault: no, it’s too late for me
[14:15] Arria Perreault: Anna ad Bag will do it
[14:15] Pip Torok: and for me too
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: (6 hours from now, i mean)
[14:15] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[14:15] Arria Perreault: I do only the EU time session (next week)
[14:15] Rose Springvale: othre announcements?
[14:15] Pip Torok: I’ll see you on my dreams! ….
[14:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I announce that I am still very amusing
[14:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and sometimes I have wit
[14:16] Rosie Gray laughs
[14:16] Rose Springvale: I think jayme mistwalkers writing group is at 6 pm
[14:16] Rose Springvale: tonight
[14:16] Naftali Torok: GOODEVENING ALL
[14:16] Naftali Torok: oeps
[14:17] Naftali Torok: sorry
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: hi naf
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when I’m engaged and on my point I’m sometimes even clever
[14:17] Pip Torok: evening naf!
[14:17] Kaseido Quandry: hi naftali!
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ask Tali
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: hi naf
[14:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Naf
[14:17] Naftali Torok: waves at everybody
[14:17] Rose Springvale: hi naf
[14:17] Naftali Torok: still rezzing
[14:17] Rose Springvale: nothing on the ball?
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tali has come here with her feather duster to clean away all the dust
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: And Rosie is selling some nice crowns and stuff in NFS.
[14:17] Pip Torok waves back
[14:18] Yekaterina Kalchek: Good evening Naf
[14:18] Arria Perreault: many people want to make a soccer turnament
[14:18] Arria Perreault: need some help
[14:18] Yekaterina Kalchek: what tournament?
[14:19] Yekaterina Kalchek: ((Just kidding! Cant escape it even here))
[14:19] Arria Perreault: we can have make teams
[14:19] Kaseido Quandry *knows* Stui’s got a vuvuzela somewhere….
[14:19] Arria Perreault: I don’t have the keys of the soccer stadion under the NFS Platz
[14:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Kas Rosy has seen where
[14:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: she sneaked in
[14:20] Kaseido Quandry gigglesnorts
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: it is hard to get down there.
[14:20] Rose Springvale: smiles. i can put a tp back there
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: i went through a hole in the wall
[14:20] Arria Perreault: great
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Rosy is good at TP’n
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[14:20] Rose Springvale: just let me know when you need it
[14:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:20] Rose Springvale: okay we are well over our time limit
[14:20] Rose Springvale: any other concerns befoer we adjourn?
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m concerned
[14:21] Rose Springvale: smiles, you concern me too
[14:21] Rose Springvale: but that’s now what i mean
[14:21] Rose Springvale: not
[14:21] Rose Springvale: *
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m concerned about the poor merchants
[14:21] Rose Springvale: set your commission times
[14:22] Rose Springvale: okay, seeing no other concerns, all in favor of adjourning say aye please
[14:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye!
[14:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:22] Pip Torok: aye
[14:22] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they don’t get commerce commission time then the RA might as well employ professional shoplifters
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[14:23] Rose Springvale: next meeting we will take up the operating agreement again, and possibly have our first commission report back
[14:23] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your patience and service
[14:23] Pip Torok: bye all
[14:23] Jamie Palisades: Nice to see you all. Yikes, next time i check the agenda first before visiting
[14:23] Rose Springvale: taking the record

Permalink.

Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board -24 June 2010

Transcript from Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:20 pm
[11:56] Rose Springvale: i’ve put a draft of some q & a regarding VDI in the notecard giver
[11:56] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants some light reading
[12:00] Rose Springvale: very laggy today
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: yes absolutely
[12:00] Rose Springvale: have a seat Micael
[12:00] Rose Springvale: let me see if i can locate Delia
[12:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: salamo’aleikom – hi everybody
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: hi muhammed
[12:01] Micael Khandr: alekom sallam
[12:01] Rose Springvale: hello everyone. Delia is on her way, trying to actually rez.
[12:01] Callipygian Christensen: Hi everyone..excuse me while I relog and try to uncloud myself
[12:02] Rose Springvale: My time got away from me this week, so the FAQ i had hoped to do i just finished a bit ago… I’d like to recognize that Arria volunteered to read them for me for clarity, but has not had that opportunity yet. A draft is in the notecard givver if you’d like to see the start
[12:02] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:02] Rose Springvale: let me also remind you all that all our meetings, this one included, are recorded and transcripted on the CDS forums
[12:03] Rose Springvale: i’d like to welcome you all here. and look forward to your questions.
[12:04] Rose Springvale: This was intended to be an opportunity for the CDS representative assembly to clarify the relationship of VDI, the owner of the AA sims, with CDS. But not a voting meeting.
[12:04] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia!
[12:05] Micael Khandr: Let’s plan to e3nd at 1 pm
[12:05] Micael Khandr: end
[12:05] Micael Khandr: so everyone knows the schedule
[12:05] Delia Lake: hi everyone. sorry for being late. i just finished giving a rl webinar
[12:05] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:05] Rose Springvale: of course there will be people around longer if there is a need. Hi delia
[12:06] Rose Springvale: delia, there is a notecard with basic info in the notecard giver on the table
[12:06] Micael Khandr: Great–I will need to leave for RL at 1 p.m.
[12:06] Rose Springvale: thanks for taking the time to be here.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: So, shall we start with questions from anyone here?
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Let me introduce Micael .. who is the Executive Director of VDI
[12:06] Rose Springvale: and Delia who is the newly elected treasurer.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: I think I know almost everyone.
[12:06] Micael Khandr:
[12:07] Rose Springvale: So questions from the RA members first please?
[12:07] Timo Gufler raises hand
[12:07] Micael Khandr: Timo
[12:07] Rose Springvale: or anything you’d like repsonse to. Thanks. Timo?
[12:07] Timo Gufler: What is role of the VDI board? What does it decide?
[12:07] Rose Springvale: Micael, do you want to take that?
[12:07] Micael Khandr: The notecard summarizes that Timo.
[12:08] Micael Khandr: But in general, it is to promote the development of virtual democracy.
[12:08] Micael Khandr: It can be here in SL, or in other virtual worlds
[12:08] Timo Gufler: How is the VDI board elected?
[12:08] Delia Lake: the board runs the rl company VDI
[12:09] Rose Springvale: for now, Timo, the board consists of the three of us. The merger agreement provides that CDS can appoint more members. That is up to CDS to determing
[12:09] Micael Khandr: We bgan with the us, and we haven’t gotten to the place f elections yet for the other members of the board
[12:10] Rose Springvale: Like many non profit boards, mostly volunteers are needed
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and to volunteer, all you need to do is talk to us
[12:10] Timo Gufler: I suppose only those, who are citizens of United States can belong to the board
[12:10] Rose Springvale: no
[12:10] Rose Springvale: anyone anywhere can be on the board
[12:10] Micael Khandr: Texas covers the whole world, right Rose?
[12:10] Delia Lake: who else will join the board will depend to some degree on the merger finalization
[12:11] Rose Springvale: but we will need real life identities .. that’s the catch.
[12:11] Micael Khandr: because it is a RL organization
[12:11] Rose Springvale: we have real life reporting requirements. The three of us have volunteered in our real life capacities
[12:11] Delia Lake: there are many nonprofits in rl that have people from different countries on their boards
[12:12] Micael Khandr: and the development of this non-profit evolved out of the original non-profit control of AA
[12:13] Timo Gufler: how can RA enforce it’s decisions to the VDI?
[12:13] Micael Khandr: I’m interested in this because of my interest in how to teach and experience democracy in real life through SL
[12:13] Rose Springvale: actually that’s the easy part Timo
[12:13] Timo Gufler: is it?
[12:13] Rose Springvale: VDI would not have any hand in the day to day operations of the sims
[12:14] Rose Springvale: if VDI remains the estate owner, then there would be a contract between VDI and CDS to do that
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I would like to know the exact role of VDI in CDS? Is this role restricted to the role of Estate owner?
[12:14] Rose Springvale: so VDI doesn’t even really need to know the RA decisions…
[12:14] Rose Springvale: yes Arria, thanks.
[12:14] Delia Lake: VDI is legally the estate owner of the 6 AA sims
[12:15] Timo Gufler: who would the EO be in practice? one of the members of the VDI board?
[12:15] Rose Springvale: VDI is ONLY the estate owner
[12:15] Rose Springvale: preferably the named avatar would be Rudeen
[12:15] Timo Gufler: who would control Rudeen?
[12:15] Rose Springvale: but Linden Labs will only accept a named avata attached to a credit card.
[12:15] Rose Springvale: same as always timo
[12:16] Rose Springvale: or it would be whoever else CDS would name, who can qualify
[12:16] Timo Gufler: so, does RA decide the EO?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: VDI is the EO
[12:16] Timo Gufler: what does that mean?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: RA can decide the named avatar, but do be aware that there are most likely fees associated with changes in the avatar
[12:16] Delia Lake: LL makes a distinction with 2 kinds of EO’s
[12:17] Delia Lake: 1 is a single person who owns a private sim
[12:17] Delia Lake: the 5 original CDS sims are single person owner private sims
[12:17] Delia Lake: the EO is the owner of those sims
[12:17] Delia Lake: the 2nd kind is nonprofit corporation
[12:18] Delia Lake: in this kind of nonprofit ownership
[12:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Are there shareholders that elect the board?
[12:18] Kaseido Quandry: hey Trebor
[12:18] Rose Springvale: no, there are no shareholers muhammed, it is a public charity
[12:18] Delia Lake: the corporation is the owner and the EO is a representative of the corporation but not the sim owner
[12:18] Arria Perreault: The Estate Owner Act sais: “The EO shall be a citizen of a sim within the CDS and shall be appointed by a majority vote of the SC. An EO may serve for one sim or multiple sims.”
[12:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[12:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Our law don’t take in account the second type of EO
[12:19] Rose Springvale: that’s why the SC is reviewing that
[12:19] Arria Perreault: VDI cannot be a citizen
[12:19] Arria Perreault: but the RA has to vote the amendment of this law
[12:19] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: i would think so, yes Arria
[12:20] Delia Lake: LL contracts take precedent over CDS law regarding sim ownership. sim ownership is by contract with LL
[12:20] Timo Gufler: since the VDI is the EO, in other words, it would have power to make a decision to sell the sims, right?
[12:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: What is the personal risk to be a boardmember?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: for latecomers, there is a notecard in the cds box ont he table.
[12:21] Micael Khandr: I think the EO always has the right to sell the sims–
[12:21] Delia Lake: for instance, the RA or for that matter a binding referendum vot e of the CDS citizenry could not replace the EO of CN, making say Timo the EO instead of Rudeen
[12:21] Micael Khandr: Right now, Sudane could sell the CDS sims
[12:21] Rose Springvale: Timo, All actions of the corporation are governed by the board. If VDI contracted with CDS, they would not have the legal power to make changes without taking to the whole board
[12:22] Rose Springvale: and then would be subject to liability if they did
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: where is the lawyer FOR CDS
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why are we here with no laywyer of our own
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have money to pay one.
[12:22] Rose Springvale: there is no lawyer here for anyone, this is an information meeting.
[12:22] Delia Lake: the EO of a private sim has the right to sell. but the EO of a sim granted nonprofit status is not the sim owner according to LL policy
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are a lawyer
[12:22] Rose Springvale: i don’t represent anyone here
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we don’t have our own, i think that is unethical of you
[12:22] Micael Khandr: And I’m a teacher
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Is EO executive officer?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: we are not in litigation Cleo, there isn’t an ethical issue here
[12:23] Rose Springvale: estate owner
[12:23] Micael Khandr: estate owner
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yah well i think there is rose
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Tu
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a big one .. many of them
[12:23] Arria Perreault: can the SC decide to change the EO of the old sims and to give them to VDI?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: muhammed, you asked about lega responsibilies of the board
[12:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:23] Rose Springvale: that’s a pretty big topic, let me get you some independent information on that and post links if i may
[12:24] Delia Lake: no, the SC cannot do that dispite what the CDS law says
[12:24] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[12:24] Rose Springvale: basic duty of care, and just shy of fiduciary
[12:24] Delia Lake: Sudane is the legal owner of the CDS sims. they can ONLY be transfered by her
[12:25] Rose Springvale: and they can only be transferred to someone who accepts them
[12:25] Timo Gufler: who would be the contracting parties in the contract between the VDI and the CDS? people in the CDS come and go… should we renew the control after each term?
[12:25] Timo Gufler: *contract
[12:25] Rose Springvale: not necessary Timo
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: As a citizen i call that CDS get a lawyer to represent it in this merger!! its an outrage and i think very unethical of rose not to demand it.
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can ispeak to you rBAR association abou it rose
[12:25] Rose Springvale: the Contract goes between the legal representative of CDS and the Executive director of VDI
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: who o do i call
[12:26] Rose Springvale: that would be Sonja and Micael
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: texas bar
[12:26] Micael Khandr: Cleo–this is an information meeting only
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: about your doing this without suggesting we get a rep
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no the merger itself
[12:26] Rose Springvale: you are more than welcome to Cleo.
[12:26] Timo Gufler: so, let’s say, that Arria was the chancellor, would she be the contractor from the CDS side?
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: The texas BAR association??
[12:26] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: CLEO, the merger was signed a year ago – and Jamie, a lawyer, represented CDS
[12:26] Rose Springvale: but Timo
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Jamie is Roses puppet
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he hardly represents CDS
[12:27] Rose Springvale: as in any contract, it will go on unless it terminates or is changed by the parties … changes in personel won’t affect it
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we need an unbiased lawyer to represent our rights as CDS citizens
[12:27] Pip Torok: we didnt merge 12 months ago, Kas ….
[12:27] Rose Springvale: folks
[12:27] Pip Torok: it was a _trial_
[12:27] Rose Springvale: can we focus on the topic please?
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Rose, what more control do you need, hun?
[12:27] Kaseido Quandry: no, it was a binding contract with a termination option, Pip
[12:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Are there majority decisions in the board?
[12:28] Micael Khandr: This is an imformation session regarding VDI
[12:28] Rose Springvale: are there more questions about the non profit?
[12:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes ask a judge to rule on viirtual land
[12:28] Pip Torok: exactly …. an option …. remember that
[12:28] Rose Springvale: pip, do you have a question?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: as a member of both projects?
[12:28] Pip Torok: to Kas and its answered
[12:29] Pip Torok: remind me of the projects …
[12:29] Rose Springvale: AA and CDS
[12:29] Pip Torok: ah
[12:29] Kaseido Quandry wishes we could get back to Timo’s and muhammad’s excellent and constructive questions
[12:29] Rose Springvale: sees arria typing, wonders if it is lag …
[12:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Being a non-profit where do the proceeds from the day to day operations go, back into the SIMS?
[12:29] Timo Gufler raises his hand again
[12:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: antonius welcome
[12:30] Arria Perreault: I will ask a frank question, the question that everyone has. it was told several times that a non-profit is a good solution for the role of EO and that it solves several issues. Now it is clear that many people don’t want to see VDI plays this role for the whole CDS. My question is: would VDI accept to own the old CDS sims if any decision is made either in the RA or in the SC?
[12:30] Pip Torok: yes … will a designated member of the RA have a permanent place on the VDI board?
[12:30] Pip Torok: and if noty, why not?
[12:30] Rose Springvale: thanks Trebor. All the proceeds are collected by CDS. the bills are paid by CDS. there is no provision for any money to come back to VDI
[12:30] Rose Springvale: Arria, thanks. let me make sure i’ve got Trebor’s question answered
[12:31] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:31] Rose Springvale: Did i answer you Trebor?
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe so, thank you
[12:31] Rose Springvale: good. Delia, are you addressing Arria’s q?
[12:31] Delia Lake: Arria, the ownership of the CDS sims can only change if Sudane wants to change them. The RA and or the SC cannot demand that the CDS sims change ownership
[12:31] muhammedyussif Wikinger: If 5 more volotaires entered the board will the make a majority?
[12:32] Pip Torok: Will you answer my question Rose? yes … will a designated member of the RA have a permanent place on the VDI board? One there _as of right_?
[12:32] Micael Khandr: a majority of 8?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: As to accepting the CDS sims… that’s a question that would be up to the RA, and the board.
[12:32] Rose Springvale: as soon as we have answered Arrias
[12:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if 5 new can take over the present 3 ?
[12:33] Rose Springvale: since the board of VDI is made up of people from these projects, i can’t imagine a case where it would be turned down… but that’s something we can’t decide
[12:33] Pip Torok: why not?
[12:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why on earth would CDS want to give our sims to a non profit board in texas.. why?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: if you are asking if a simple majority of the RA could effectuate a transfer, the answer would be no.
[12:34] Timo Gufler: What if Arria was the contracting part from the CDS and the VDI broke the contract… what could she do? I guess, it would be very difficult for her to sue the VDI in the US…
[12:34] Rose Springvale: Pip, the VDI board is a real life board of individuals who commit to three year terms. RA terms are six months. not sure how that would work
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: not nearly as hard as for us to sue Sudane, Timo.
[12:35] Rose Springvale: Timo
[12:35] Kaseido Quandry: whoever she may be, whereever she may be
[12:35] Rose Springvale: not sure why we’d go to all this trouble to ‘break” the deal. but lets follow your logic
[12:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: A chilenian dictator was sued fron Spain
[12:35] Pip Torok: The RA would find some way … it IS in CDS’ interest for them to find a way
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how many people can be on the board, what is the limit??
[12:35] Micael Khandr: We have 25 minutes left in the formal information session btw
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the maximum
[12:35] Arria Perreault: and can the SC decides this transfer?
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[12:36] Delia Lake: the SC cannot decide this transfer
[12:36] Pip Torok: why not, Delia?
[12:36] Delia Lake: only Sudane can make a transfer of the CDS sims. ONLY Sudane
[12:36] Pip Torok: ah
[12:36] Kaseido Quandry: because the SC has no legal status as owenr of the sims
[12:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so VDI controls the RA via the LRA and the SC via delia.. and ..
[12:37] Delia Lake: LL policy recognizes only 1 single owner of private sims
[12:37] Kaseido Quandry: Sudane owns them, Sudane only can sell them
[12:37] Rose Springvale: i think that kind of action would go like this… RA votes… chancellor vetos
[12:37] Solomon Mosely: doesnt the VDi board take it’s lead from the cds RA or cds exec?
[12:37] Delia Lake: for the CDS sims that is Sudane. ONLY Sudane
[12:37] Rose Springvale: and let me just say… on our behalf .. the three of us
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: cindy is in AA.. so no one in CDS has any control of our sims
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: So techniclly Sudane is the owner of the SIMS and if the merger happens ownership would be transferred to the nonprofit VDI?
[12:37] Timo Gufler: Sudane has been a trustworthy lady
[12:37] Rose Springvale: no trebor
[12:37] Delia Lake: she certainly has, Timo
[12:38] Pip Torok: (and long has it been so)
[12:38] Rose Springvale: sudane owns the five original sims
[12:38] Rose Springvale: vdi owns the 6 aa sims
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: oooh ok
[12:38] Rose Springvale: after the merger, it stays that way, unless CDS creates it’s own non profit
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: tu for the clarification
[12:38] Rose Springvale: which would look very much like VDI
[12:38] Delia Lake: and I have no reason to believe that Sudane would be anything other than responsble as she has been in the past
[12:38] Pip Torok: UNLESS!!!!! …..
[12:38] Rose Springvale: The merger agreement also provides that CDS and the chancellor would serve on the board.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: pip?
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: still we should take it out of one set of hands anyway
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: she could get hit by a bus
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Why would the CDS have to start their own non profit. Why not become a part of VDI?
[12:39] Pip Torok: no way, sol
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: /
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: yesss way
[12:39] Rose Springvale: Trebor, its just an option
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: Yopurs?
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: Yopurs ؟
[12:39] Arria Perreault: what happens in expansion project? will the SC decide who is the estate owner for each new sim?
[12:39] Rose Springvale: they can’t become part of vdi
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry: We have full faith in our anonymous overlords
[12:39] Pip Torok: Trebor … would you give your heritage away?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that’s a good question ARria, but i think that is RA responsibility
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: heritage?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: based on the purpose of the sim i think
[12:40] Pip Torok: speak for yourself KAS-come-lately
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: lol
[12:40] Arria Perreault: le EO Act sayis it is the SC
[12:40] Kaseido Quandry laughs. “ooo, burn!”
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Pip no I wouldnt but at the same time i would want to do what’s best to grow and prosper as a community.
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: yes, pip grew up here in these hills
[12:40] Rose Springvale: order please
[12:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: touche rose you won , you took over CDS by your lawschool tricks, took you years.. but .. whooo you should be so proud of yourself
[12:40] Pip Torok: i undertand, trebor
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria, that act should be something we look at i think.
[12:41] Arria Perreault: if I read our law, VDI cannot be an EO now
[12:41] Micael Khandr: in CDS?
[12:41] Rose Springvale: the whole EO act is a bit out of date… we’ve come a long way as CDS since that was drafted
[12:41] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:41] Arria Perreault: it is the current law
[12:41] Pip Torok: why is it outofdate? …
[12:41] Rose Springvale: so is the merger agreement
[12:42] Arria Perreault: Quote: 1). The EO shall be a citizen of a sim within the CDS and shall be appointed by a majority vote of the SC. An EO may serve for one sim or multiple sims.
[12:42] Solomon Mosely: so, to sum up: VDI does not and can not “take over” the cds sims
[12:42] Rose Springvale: so we have a discrepancy in our laws
[12:42] Micael Khandr: So that would need to change if the desire was to have a non-profit as EO
[12:42] Delia Lake: our CDS law is out of compliance with LL policy. LL policy takes precedence over CDS law as LL owns SL
[12:42] Rose Springvale: right solomon. nor would it want to
[12:42] Pip Torok: who says its outofdate never say why
[12:42] Rose Springvale: delia just did pip
[12:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS NEEDS ITS OWN LAWYER>> why wouldnt she want you to have one!!!!! think people.
[12:42] Pip Torok: ?
[12:42] Timo Gufler: who knows, what the board wants?
[12:42] Kaseido Quandry faceplams
[12:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this is a very unfair fight and you know it rose.
[12:42] Rose Springvale: sorry timo… can you be more specific? what board?
[12:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you should be so so ashamed of yourself rose.
[12:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how sad
[12:43] Micael Khandr: Please be civil at this meeting, Cleo.
[12:43] Delia Lake: Pip, i have a question for you. you said that you didn’t want to give up your/our heritage. could you say more about what you mean by that?
[12:43] Timo Gufler: who knows, what the VDI board would like to do… what it want depends on, who sit on the board…
[12:44] Solomon Mosely looks for the “drop chair through floor” button
[12:44] Rose Springvale: would you like to join us timo?
[12:44] Rose Springvale: right now
[12:44] Timo Gufler: I can’t answer that question right now
[12:44] Rose Springvale: VDI exists only because the conversations on the CDS forum caused the former non profit to ‘disown” AA
[12:44] Rose Springvale: we had to choose whether to let it die, or create a new nonprofit
[12:45] Rose Springvale: we were well into negotiations with CDS
[12:45] Rose Springvale: and felt that to let it die wasn’t fair to anyone
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: doesn’t merger agreement state that the VDI board takes it’s orders from the cds leadership?
[12:45] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Draft Q & A, VDI’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[12:45] Delia Lake: and what the VDI board does or does not do is limited by the nonprofit charter (rl) granted to the company
[12:45] Delia Lake: it cannot just go out and do “anything”
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: right….
[12:46] Rose Springvale: actually solomon, the merger agreement assumed CDS would create a non profit
[12:46] Timo Gufler: really?
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: is everyone actually reading the agreement and the VDI bylaws now?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: oh yea, how did we miss that?
[12:46] Timo Gufler: we are not lawyers…
[12:47] Solomon Mosely: no, but most of us speak english
[12:47] Rose Springvale: vdi is willing to accomodate and contract with cds… because its an expensive and tedious process
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Can ui have a copy of the VDI bylaws please
[12:47] Delia Lake: from the VDI articles of incorporation…
[12:47] Delia Lake: The Corporation is organized exclusively for cultural and educational purposes as defined in Section 501(c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code. These activities will include, but not be limited to, creating democratic communities in virtual worlds, exploring historical democratic societies and teaching democratic structures through information and educationa presentations and discussions, and the applying democratic principles to governance of virtual communities. The corporation may engage in all such activities that further these purposes.
[12:47] Solomon Mosely: as does the text ofthe documents
[12:47] Rose Springvale: trebor, they are posted, let me send you the link
[12:47] Arria Perreault: What is the impact of the purpouse of VDI? I know it cannot be changed. It was not discussed in the community. Will some activities like commerce be restricted?
[12:47] Rose Springvale: good question Arria
[12:48] Rose Springvale: The project that was submitted and approved by both LL and the IRS was the creation of democratic communities in virtual worlds
[12:48] Arria Perreault: IRS?
[12:48] Rose Springvale: communities include commerce, culture, residences, streets.. ets.
[12:48] Micael Khandr: Tax people
[12:48] Rose Springvale: IRS= Internal Revenu Service… the ones who decide on our charity status
[12:48] Rose Springvale: One thing no one has touched on is the potential to apply for outside grants
[12:49] Pip Torok: assume d? … who assumed the CDS wd become nonprofit?
[12:49] Rose Springvale: which is a great benefit that a non profit has over just a group of people.
[12:49] Rose Springvale: there are many sources of funding that we can explore
[12:49] Delia Lake: the 5 original CDS sims do not have to become nonprofit
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: I was wondering about that Rose. By becoming a non profit corporation it can open many RL doors.
[12:50] Pip Torok: see Arria’s Forum post about how derisory the nonprofit tier difference wd be
[12:50] Delia Lake: it can and does, Trebor
[12:50] Rose Springvale: Pip, here is the language from the merger agreement; . A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Delia that’s where I’m having a little trouble understanding.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: we are too Trebor
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Why 2 non-profits?
[12:51] Rose Springvale: no need for two
[12:51] Pip Torok: nonprofit means LOSS of control , a meaningless democracy, for the price of the tier-difference
[12:51] Arria Perreault: yes, money is not a sufficient reason: some of our sims are not at normal price
[12:51] Delia Lake: loss of what control, Pip?
[12:51] Solomon Mosely: where do you get this pip?
[12:51] Pip Torok: fro Arria’s Forum post
[12:51] Rose Springvale: AA is an educational project
[12:51] Rose Springvale: it is not just about money
[12:51] Yekaterina Kalchek: I fail to see any logic in that remark Pip
[12:51] Yekaterina Kalchek: ولا أستطيع أن أرى أي منطق في هذا التصريح النواة
[12:51] Micael Khandr: But CDS is already “controlled” by a single EO–the idea that the democracy is completely in charge is an illusion in SL
[12:52] Yekaterina Kalchek: Ooops sorry
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: *thank you* Micael
[12:52] Arria Perreault: My opinion is the following: a good strategy would be to have several EO in CDS. It will decrease the risks.
[12:52] Delia Lake: Pip, what control do you have now that you believe you could potentially loose?
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point Michel
[12:52] Pip Torok: then you kick the whole basis of what we do here, micael
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, that’s a good point
[12:52] Arria Perreault: we will have two EO and why not a third one
[12:52] Timo Gufler: Interesting point, yes, Arria…
[12:52] Carolyn Saarinen: Blame LL for that Pip
[12:53] Micael Khandr: I’m not “kicking” anyone–just stating the reality
[12:53] Pip Torok: the power that the Constitution gives us, Delia
[12:53] Rose Springvale: i think that is what the original lawy intended Arria
[12:53] Arria Perreault: yes, exactly, Rose
[12:53] Rose Springvale: that it wouldn’t all be on one person.
[12:53] Pip Torok: Reality? thats machtPolitik Micael …
[12:53] Carolyn Saarinen: If CDS is going to have multiple EOs the only way for that to work is for CDS to form or join a non-profit. LL wnot recognise it any other way.
[12:54] Pip Torok: nonsense Caro
[12:54] Delia Lake: the CDS constitution governs us as a community of choice–which is what the CDS is. the CDS Constitution is not binding on LL
[12:54] Carolyn Saarinen: Pip, Delia explained the two types of EO acceptable to LL earlier
[12:54] Timo Gufler: I will leave now. Thanks for the meeting.
[12:54] Timo Gufler: bye
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: But Pip could buy his own sim, join it to the CDS and continue as owner of it only – no problem
[12:54] Rose Springvale: we are all speculating now. Thank you for coming Timo
[12:54] Micael Khandr: YW, Timo
[12:54] Yekaterina Kalchek: Bye Timo
[12:55] Delia Lake: at this time those are the only EO categories that LL recognizes
[12:55] Arria Perreault: EO have an administrative role only. The law says also that they cannot have an other position in CDS
[12:55] Arria Perreault: bye Timo
[12:55] Micael Khandr: we have about 5 minutes of the formal meeting time left, btw
[12:55] Pip Torok: no … its an interface … from LL’s side one owner pays tier for the sims … from CDS side,tier is paid to a Treasurer who happens to be LL’s EO
[12:55] Arria Perreault: I agree we have to review this law
[12:55] Solomon Mosely: must run. rose, thank you for doing this to put an end to the flod of mis-information and fer mongering. i hope this clears things up for everyone and we can all move forward
[12:55] Rose Springvale: thank you for coming solomon
[12:56] Micael Khandr: TY, Sol
[12:56] Pip Torok: Sol … I’m against the _causes_ of fear
[12:56] Solomon Mosely: oh, and my man craig is performing at sl7b at 1 hope you can all make itto the main stage
[12:56] Arria Perreault: a last question: what are the incomes of VDI and how are the finances of VDI manages? Are the financial informations publi?
[12:56] Solomon Mosely: plug!
[12:56] Delia Lake: NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act is posted on the SC discussion section of the Forum. this weekend I will post a set of LL policy links as well
[12:56] Rose Springvale: yes Arria. VDI has only one asset, the AA estates
[12:56] Yekaterina Kalchek: Thank you Delia
[12:57] Rose Springvale: All the tier for the AA estates goes to Rudeen
[12:57] Rose Springvale: All the bills also go to rudeen
[12:57] Rose Springvale: all VDI information is public, and available for anyone to see
[12:57] Pip Torok: “until2 such time when a majority hands over the rest to VDI … a habndover that will be one-way
[12:57] Rose Springvale: If we get grants, those will be subject to scrutiny as well
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: (and *must* be, by state and federeal law)
[12:57] Delia Lake: hands over what, Pip?
[12:58] Rose Springvale: I’d like to say somethign if i may
[12:58] Pip Torok: the nonprofit sims
[12:58] Rose Springvale: a year ago, all the AA sims were “mine”
[12:58] Pip Torok: no … the non-nonprofit sims
[12:58] Rose Springvale: that include the value of the land, the value of the buidings.
[12:58] Rose Springvale: 4 of those sims were my personal assets that i transfered directly to AA
[12:59] Rose Springvale: then i transfered ALL 6 of the sims to VDI
[12:59] Rose Springvale: it was a gift
[12:59] Rose Springvale: that gift was intended to be handed to CDS
[12:59] Rose Springvale: i get nothing out of it at all
[12:59] Kaseido Quandry: what was the approximate dollar value of your own money, Rose?
[12:59] Rose Springvale: about 10000 Usd
[13:00] Rose Springvale: i have no desire to run this project
[13:00] Rose Springvale: i have no desire to run AA
[13:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: That’s substantial.
[13:00] Rose Springvale: but i do wish to see the projects continue
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s more than I earn in a year
[13:00] Rose Springvale: so all this takeover talk is silly
[13:00] Pip Torok: as we have no desire to see the CDS-portions become nonprofit …. but we have no guarantee …
[13:00] Rose Springvale: if i wanted to be in charge, why bother with mergers?
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: So your reasoning to do what you did was to see the concept of the CDS grow?
[13:01] Rose Springvale: I have served CDS for many years now, and i am personally hurt that so many of you are willing to attribute bad motives to me
[13:01] Pip Torok: with respect Rose, it does not prove it
[13:01] Delia Lake: to see the concept of building workable virtual democracy grow
[13:01] Carolyn Saarinen whispers: fucking hell
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: nor do your empty and ignorant accusations, Pip.
[13:01] Micael Khandr: Thank you for sharing this info, Rose. I am going to close the formal information meeting now
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: that street runs both ways.
[13:01] Rose Springvale: thanks Micael.
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: thank you Micael
[13:02] Micael Khandr: Those who can stay longer, are welcome to do so.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 11 July 2010

Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 11, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:29 am
[9:01] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for being here today, i know everyone is busy and i appreciate you taking the time for the government of CDS
[9:01] Rose Springvale: We’ll come to order now, and open to floor to the citizens.
[9:02] Rose Springvale: smiles at Trebor…
[9:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Rose, I have no questions at the moment.
[9:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip
[9:02] Rose Springvale: i’ll remind everyone that CDS meetings are recorded and transcripted, so if you speak, it will be recorded
[9:02] Rose Springvale: hello pip
[9:02] Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
[9:03] Pip Torok: hi Rose, Sonja
[9:03] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Gwyn
[9:03] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor
[9:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Tor
[9:03] Tor Karlsvalt: hi kas, Cindy, pip rose and pat
[9:03] Rose Springvale: today’s agenda and the recommendations of the communications commission are in the box on the table, so if you want to look those over, just touch the box
[9:03] Rose Springvale: hello tor
[9:04] Sonja Strom: hi Tor
[9:04] Rose Springvale: anyone have general community concerns we can talk about now?
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor!
[9:05] Lilith Ivory wonders if she is still here as nobody responds to her greetings
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww Lilith
[9:05] Lilith Ivory: ah ok I´m here
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello and sorry!
[9:05] Pip Torok: hi LILITH!!!
[9:05] Lilith Ivory: ty Gwyn hehe
[9:05] Rose Springvale: hi LILITH!
[9:05] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:05] Sonja Strom: hi Gwyneth
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, is it worth discussing the overall committees’ work?
[9:05] Lilith Ivory: I´m used to crashes without my knowing
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: HI LILITH! sorry
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry won’t wear overalls, no matter what the committee says
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Kas
[9:06] Rose Springvale: well, we have that all on the agenda Gwyn, but if you have general comments, sure. and kas, you’d look cute in them!
[9:06] Arria Perreault: hi all
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry: aww, thanks Rose! :p
[9:06] Lilith Ivory has some cute overalls
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:06] Rose Springvale: you do!
[9:07] Arria Perreault: i am connected with my iphone
[9:07] Rose Springvale: wow, welcome Arria!
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: great Arria, is that a new iPhone 4?
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sol
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: hi Arria, Hi Sol
[9:07] Solomon Mosely: hi guys
[9:07] Arria Perreault: no
[9:07] Rose Springvale: Hi solomon, we are in the Concerns of citizens section for 8 more minutes
[9:08] Solomon Mosely: great, thank you
[9:08] Rose Springvale: we’ll be patient arria, that iphone keyboard is a challenge
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: not too many citizens here
[9:08] Solomon Mosely: kind of a slow day, huh?
[9:08] Pip Torok: we cd ask Trebor how he’s faring ?
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: i have talked to a few.
[9:08] Rose Springvale: well, it is mid summer… lot of people are traveling. SL has been pretty quiet lately
[9:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Doing well thank you.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Pretty quiet” hmm
[9:09] Trebor Warcliffe: More here for observation today in between doing RL accounting homework.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: riiiight
[9:09] Pip Torok: good … i like yr build btw
[9:09] Trebor Warcliffe: The one I purchased in CN?
[9:09] Rose Springvale: smiles at gwyn. notes the exception!
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question if i may?
[9:09] Pip Torok: the very same
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I know one citizen inqured about the status of building a new sim
[9:10] Rose Springvale: sure Pat
[9:10] Arria Perreault: i willl move my ipad now
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: has the RA meeting to consider the merger been set yet?
[9:10] Rose Springvale: it isn’t on the agenda, but the time for it is between july 22 and july 29
[9:11] Solomon Mosely: is thAt still an issue?
[9:11] Pip Torok: it is Solomon
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: i think we should set it in advance so ppl know when it will come up
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: *well* in advance
[9:11] Rose Springvale: well, its been on the schedule for a year but what would you like to suggest
[9:11] Rose Springvale: ?
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: let’s set a date for the RA meeting which will vote on the merger
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: we may need to modify the 7-day vote rule too
[9:12] Rose Springvale: i think we can leave it on the regular rotation so long as it happens on or before July 22.
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: pat, why are you so afraid of the merger?
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: ok. that works
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: i still dont get this
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sol
[9:12] Pip Torok: I dont understand you, Solomon
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: ok, what are you calling it then?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: i just asked when the vote would be. that’s all
[9:13] Rose Springvale: maybe the personal opinions can be explored privately?
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: of course
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: it may well be a foregone conclusion but…. we still need to hold the vote
[9:13] Pip Torok: agree
[9:13] Rose Springvale: thanks Solomon
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: well no
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: if we dont vote against it, it goes on
[9:14] Arria Perreault: I have a concern. like other poeple I have deeply regretted that Aris
[9:14] Arria Perreault: a
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we *do* hold a vote so that it is on record
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: and it’s a point we already voted on in your referendum
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: and the CDS makes a choice
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: we did
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pat
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: thanks to your referendum
[9:14] Rose Springvale: it will be on the agenda then Pat, no worries
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: or have you chosen to forget all that?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: Arria, what would you like to discuss about that?
[9:14] Arria Perreault: that Arias decided to leave.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: no sol. not forgotten
[9:14] Arria Perreault: tes
[9:14] Pip Torok: I dont understand you, Solomon
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i note he is still a land owner and still on the forums this morning
[9:15] Solomon Mosely: just ignored, got it
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Arias has not left
[9:15] Rose Springvale: gentleman, thanks
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lets move to Arria’s concern?
[9:15] Solomon Mosely: kk
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: grow up sol
[9:15] Rose Springvale: and then we’ll get started on the meeting.
[9:15] Arria Perreault: i was away this week end
[9:15] Rose Springvale: Arias owns quite a bit of land in CDS and has set some for sale i believe
[9:15] Rose Springvale: maybe you can chat with him personally?
[9:16] Rose Springvale: our 15 minutes are up, so lets move to the formal agenda
[9:16] Rose Springvale: as i said earlier, copies are in the box on the table
[9:17] Rose Springvale: For administrative matters, we had two items from last meeting that went to 7 day vote
[9:17] Arria Perreault: i just would like to express my disapointment: I ask myself what does our community to retain valuable citizen with great projects
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Arias has not left
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: he has not set all his land for sale
[9:17] Rose Springvale: its a good question Arria, lets explore it
[9:17] Arria Perreault: he had great projects
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: nor had his grou[p
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: group
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we are on administrative matters now… we can take that issue up under concerns later, but lets keep on task if we can
[9:18] Arria Perreault: we have to encourage warmly such poeple, let them act and give to them good conditions
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol: That IS a good question, Arria.
[9:18] Pip Torok: But he has talked of other priorities, Tor
[9:18] Rose Springvale: one of the 7 day votes was the chancellor vote
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh
[9:18] Tor Karlsvalt: fact is he has not left
[9:18] Arria Perreault: ok. we can take it on RA members concerns
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol: I’m thinking that Rose’s organization of commissions focused on specific issues is a good start to gettig people involved
[9:18] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[9:18] Tor Karlsvalt: despite what has been posted to the forum
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we remain deadlocked, so Sonja will remain chancellor
[9:18] Rose Springvale: order please
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[9:19] Rose Springvale: the second 7 day vote was the creation of the commerce commission, which passed
[9:19] Rose Springvale: any other items to add to the agenda or can we proceed?
[9:19] Rose Springvale: i’ll take silence as assent
[9:19] Trebor Warcliffe: So because of the deadlock Sonja is the Chancellor for the next term?
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:20] Rose Springvale: yes
[9:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok understood
[9:20] Sonja Strom: For this term?
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats. Sonja! (if you’re reading this)
[9:20] Rose Springvale: ununtil a new chancellor is elected, is my reading of the law
[9:20] Trebor Warcliffe: At least thats one thing that gets accomplished.
[9:21] Sonja Strom: Until a new Chancellor is elected?
[9:21] Trebor Warcliffe: I second the ???
[9:21] Rose Springvale: the law provides that the chancellor will give the RA montly reports, and sonja is here today to give her report. You have the floor Sonja
[9:21] Pip Torok: which is only at the starrt of a Term, as I understand it
[9:23] Rose Springvale: sonja are you here?
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: doesn’t specify “the start of the term” Pip.
[9:24] Rose Springvale: Sonja has the floor folks
[9:24] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose.
[9:24] Pip Torok: (tks, Cindy)
[9:24] Sonja Strom: We now have a new Public Information Officer, Anna Toussaint.
[9:25] Rose Springvale: applause!
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry cheers
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[9:25] Lilith Ivory: applause
[9:25] Pip Torok: great!
[9:25] Sonja Strom claps
[9:25] Arria Perreault: great
[9:25] Arria Perreault: congratulations, Anna
[9:25] Pip Torok: and welcome, Anna
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thanks for applying )
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: great news
[9:26] Sonja Strom: If you would like help coordinating an event, and especially with the promotion of it,
[9:26] Sonja Strom: of course you (or any citizen) can ask me for that, as always,
[9:27] Sonja Strom: but now you can also ask Anna for help.
[9:27] Sonja Strom: Our finances have been slowly improving over the last six months, and now we are again in the black,
[9:28] Sonja Strom: no longer in the red,
[9:28] Sonja Strom: which means that now we have some money we can spend
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol wonders when we were EVER in the red???
[9:28] Trebor Warcliffe: Do we have any accounts that are in delinquency that need to be addresed>
[9:29] Rose Springvale: lets let her report then take questions please
[9:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok sorry
[9:30] Sonja Strom: Yes, Cindy, the CDS was in the red for about six months during the term before I came to office as Chancellor and the first couple of months after I came to office.
[9:30] Sonja Strom: At that time we did talk about this in the RA.
[9:30] Rose Springvale: not what the treasury reports say .. but can we see the budget?
[9:31] Cindy Ecksol will ask more during questions
[9:31] Sonja Strom: Trebor, I know of no accounts that are in delinquency.
[9:31] Kaseido Quandry looks forward to reviewing the budget, and to Trebor’s input on it
[9:31] Sonja Strom: We always had a Reserve, so during that period we drew funds from the Reserve.
[9:32] Sonja Strom: Rose, do you want to have the current budget, or the overall reports?
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol raises her hand
[9:32] Rose Springvale: both please
[9:32] Sonja Strom: I will provide them.
[9:33] Sonja Strom: We have also had a series of events which have gone successfully,
[9:33] Sonja Strom: including the third birthday of Al Andalus
[9:33] Sonja Strom: With regard to the budget,
[9:34] Sonja Strom: I will begin with the current budget,
[9:34] Sonja Strom: and then if you want we can talk about the past however much you choose.
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol is wondering “WHAT current budget? none has been proposed for going on two terms, and none has been approved by RA!”
[9:35] Arria Perreault: the RA doesnt approve budget
[9:35] Sonja Strom: Cindy, there is no law that says the budget must be approved by the RA.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: please folks, lets let her present it to us
[9:36] Sonja Strom: The way the budget works is described by our Treasurer, Sudane Erato, here: http://picasaweb.google.com/sudane.erat … 6192117378
[9:36] Rose Springvale: wait
[9:36] Sonja Strom: If you will all look at those slides,
[9:36] Cindy Ecksol thinks “A budget developed by the Chancellor and not shared is a budget that does not exist”
[9:36] Rose Springvale: that’s process, not numbers…
[9:36] Rose Springvale: and not current.
[9:36] Rose Springvale: can we address this term please?
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Cindy, if you would like to propose a law that the budget must be approved by the RA,
[9:37] Sonja Strom: perhaps the RA could have such a discussion.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: But at the moment the budget is a function of the Executive Branch.
[9:37] Rose Springvale: i think the finance committee is working on that, but please, lets deal with here and now?
[9:38] Cindy Ecksol: AND…needs to be shared with the community or it is irrelevant!
[9:38] Sonja Strom: Rose, the finance committee is working on what?
[9:38] Rose Springvale: do we have numbers and approval for salaries?
[9:38] Cindy Ecksol: every chancellor before you has done that.
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could let sonja speak? without continual barracking?
[9:39] Rose Springvale: please continue with your report Sonja
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Perhaps we can have a conversation later about the role of the Finance Committee,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: and how it can have input on the Executive functions with regard to the Budget,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: which are defined in the Constitution.
[9:41] Sonja Strom: For now we can return to the current budget,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: which comes from a process that has been described by our Treasurer in the presentation for which I have given you the web address.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: Considering this process,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: the current figures we have that fit within it are,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: that the 11 sims of the CDS have a monthly expense of tier to Linden Lab of US$1798,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: and, althought the calculations are a little bit complex,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: a monthly income of tier of US$2030
[9:45] Solomon Mosely: why does she skip july and august of ’09?
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Solomon, the numbers I am giving you are an average of the six month term,
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: and i dont inderstand why she’s measuring from 9/09 to 2/09, why not go by terms then?
[9:46] Sonja Strom: with each month a little bit different,
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: but she doesn’t list the months
[9:46] Sonja Strom: but the monthly average is the numbers I am giving you.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Oh,
[9:46] Rose Springvale: that’s Sudane’s report, lets let sonja go on with hers
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: please
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: ok, thank you sonja
[9:46] Sonja Strom: the charts in Sudane’s report are showing the process.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: The process was defined at the time she made those charts,
[9:47] Sonja Strom: so the charts use the numbers from that time.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: If the same process is followed for this term as the process that was defined in those charts,
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: well, we can make sense of it when she releases the balance sheets
[9:48] Sonja Strom: today,
[9:48] Sonja Strom: they result in the numbers I am giving you now.
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: clap clap clap “thank you sonja”
[9:50] Sonja Strom: The balance sheets are posted each month here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=224
[9:50] A group member named sachi Vixen owned by an unknown group gave you Adam n Eve – 11 July 2010.
[9:50] Sonja Strom: Those currently appearing there go up to May,
[9:51] Sonja Strom: but the Treasurer has sent all of you the balance sheet for June by email.
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: not me
[9:51] Rose Springvale: we have that, maybe in the interest of time you can move on to your side of it?
[9:51] Rose Springvale: kas, posted on forums
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, I will look into that.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i think that is right Sonja, I just gave it to sol
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: ok, just clarifying I haven’t gotten any emails
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: if i get your email I will send it to you
[9:51] Rose Springvale: and the portal i think.
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Thank you Tor
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Tor
[9:52] Arria Perreault: it will on the portal very soon
[9:52] Rose Springvale: it is public info for all the citizens to see
[9:52] Rose Springvale: thanks Arria
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: portalhas not been updated
[9:52] Sonja Strom: oh Kaseido, maybe I have an incorrect email address for you…
[9:52] Sonja Strom: please let me know what it is, and I will get it updated.
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: kaseido.quandry@gmail.com – thanks!
[9:53] Rose Springvale: its okay, needs to go to full community anyway…. will be available shortly and prior months are there
[9:53] Arria Perreault: i was travelling this week end
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Thank you, Kaseido.
[9:53] Rose Springvale: we have about 5 more minutes allocated to sonja. lets let her speak
[9:53] Pip Torok: (Hi Sudane)
[9:54] Sonja Strom: So, if we total the cost of our tier to Linden Lab and the tier income we have,
[9:54] Sonja Strom: our total monthly revenue is US$232
[9:55] Sonja Strom: Up to now we have been trying to put 25% of our total revenue into our Reserve,
[9:55] Sonja Strom: but the Finance Committee meetings are indicating that the community thinks this is too high.
[9:55] Sonja Strom: I suggest we reduce this amount from here to 10%,
[9:56] Rose Springvale: isn’t that a law?
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Rose, isn’t what a law?
[9:56] Rose Springvale: i thought we had a law on the reserves. let’s research that.
[9:57] Rose Springvale: we can look into that later. can you wrap up?
[9:57] Sonja Strom: Alright, we will respect that if there is one.
[9:58] Sonja Strom: The only law I know of about it is that the Constitution requires that our Reserve be equal to two months of tier or higher.
[9:58] Tor Karlsvalt: FYI
[9:58] Tor Karlsvalt: NL 4-6 Financial Reserves Act
The city shall move 1 month’s tier in USD to a separate line item (reserve account), and make those funds unavailable for other use.
Funds in the account shall be disbursed at the discretion of the RA to pay recurring expenses in the event of a sudden and unexpected drop in $USD income.
The city shall augment this account as funds are available until it contains enough funds to pay all recurring city expenses for a period of two months absent other income.
[9:58] Sonja Strom: And we have met that requirement.
[9:58] Rose Springvale: okay, go on please
[9:58] Sonja Strom: Yes, maybe we can talk more about this later.
[9:59] Rose Springvale: excuse me a moment sonja, we are out of alloted time. RA, do you want to extend time?
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to extend time
[9:59] Rose Springvale: if so i need a motion and the amount
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[9:59] Rose Springvale: how long gwyn?
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 20 mins?
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 11, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:30 am
[9:59] Pip Torok: i agree to extend time
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: aye
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[9:59] Rose Springvale: how long do you need to wrap up sonja?
[9:59] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:59] Rose Springvale: no vote called yet
[10:00] Solomon Mosely: to what end? is there more to report on?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: I coud have wrapped up already
[10:00] Rose Springvale: so you want 5 minute and then questions?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: I think it depends on the number and type of questions.
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:00] Rose Springvale: okay, we have a motion to extend time by 20 minutes
[10:00] Rose Springvale: seconded?
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:00] Pip Torok: second
[10:00] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:00] Pip Torok: aye
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:00] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:01] Solomon Mosely: aye
[10:01] Rose Springvale: kas gwyn, arria
[10:01] Kaseido Quandry: nay
[10:01] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:02] Rose Springvale: think gwyn is away, motion carries, Please wrap up the report in the next 5 minutes Sonja, then we’ll take 15 for questions
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose.
[10:02] Sonja Strom: If we put 10% of our income into the Reserve, this brings our monthly expenditures to a total possible of US$209.
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Using an approximation of L$ value of 277 per US$, this totals L$57,893.
[10:03] Sonja Strom: Once again, this is per month.
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sorry
[10:03] Sonja Strom: Our expenses include
[10:04] Sonja Strom: stipends to reimburse positions (jobs) in the CDS.
[10:04] Sonja Strom: Currently these are:
[10:04] Sonja Strom: 1 treasurer = L$1,000; 1 PIO = L$1,000; 1 Caretaker = L$1,000, 1 Content Archivist = L$1,000.
[10:05] Sonja Strom: I do have a question here: is there an Archivist for the RA?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: no
[10:05] Sonja Strom: The Archivist we are giving a stipend to is the SC Archivist.
[10:05] Sonja Strom: Thanks.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: you mean the content archivist i think
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Yes, the SC Content Archivist, Aliasi Stonebender.
[10:06] Rose Springvale: where our intellectual property is held
[10:06] Rose Springvale: i think its a separate position, not related to SC, she’s also on SC though
[10:06] Sonja Strom: ah, ok.
[10:06] Sonja Strom: This totals L$4,000.
[10:07] Sonja Strom: We have a monthly web hosting fee for the CDS website,
[10:07] Sonja Strom: or web portal, that is L$ 2,820
[10:07] Sonja Strom: We have an overall CDS events budget,
[10:08] Sonja Strom: carried over from the previous Chancellor (meaning, I have made no changes here),
[10:09] Sonja Strom: of L$12,000
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: um, you were the previous chancellor
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: Stui!!
[10:09] Sonja Strom: Solomon, the Chancellor previous to me was Jamie Palisades.
[10:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: gotcha
[10:09] Rose Springvale: please finish sonja, we need to move on
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: je suis arrive
[10:10] Sonja Strom: We have a monthly recreation budget of L$1666.
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: vraiment????
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: mais Stui en Paris
[10:10] Rose Springvale: hi stui
[10:10] Sonja Strom: These are all continuations of normal CDS activities.
[10:10] Pip Torok: pas d’blague? ….
[10:11] Sonja Strom: When we add all of these figures up,
[10:11] Arria Perreault: bon séjour à Paris, Stui
[10:11] Sonja Strom: the remaining amount is L$37,407.
[10:12] Sonja Strom: My suggestion is that we split this amount three ways and distribute it to the Regional Event Committees, for them to spend however they choose.
[10:12] Kaseido Quandry: wonderful idea, Sonja
[10:12] Rose Springvale: thank you sonja. Ready for questions?
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol would like to see all of this in a spreadsheet.
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Cindy
[10:13] Sonja Strom: This amount of disbursement then, will be L$12,469 for each Regional Committee per month.
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: or a notecard
[10:13] Sonja Strom: Alright Cindy, I will work on putting that together.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: What happens if the commissions don’t spend it?
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: yes, this report would have been good to have been presented in writing and available on the forum
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I can answer what the consensus of the commission was to that
[10:14] Rose Springvale: are you finished Sonja? if so, we can take questions
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Point taken Kaseido – next time I can do it that way.
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:14] Rose Springvale: lets do this in order
[10:14] Rose Springvale: thanks, Cindy?
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: sonja, you ade a statement at the beginning that our “finances are slowly improving” and that we were “in the red” in the past
[10:14] Sonja Strom: I am finished with the important parts of what I wanted to say in my report, thanks.
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: I took the time to look at the treasurers reports for the last four terms
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: and I see no evidence of an excess of expenses over revenue…which is how we generally define “in the red”
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: on what basis do you state that we were “in the red” and are now “improving”?
[10:16] Sonja Strom: If you would like I can try to find those reports for you now,
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: yes, please.
[10:16] Sonja Strom: or I can find them and get back to you later.
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: There was a dip in January that was recovered by March
[10:16] Sonja Strom: Alright.
[10:17] Rose Springvale: thanks sonja
[10:17] Rose Springvale: other questions?
[10:17] Cindy Ecksol: “a dip in January” is not “in the red”
[10:17] Trebor Warcliffe: I have a suggestion in regards to the reserves and it’s percentages. You have a mandatory 2 months you want in reserve at all times. Than you have a suggested 3 months in reserves so you have money to expand with or hold special events. If the reserve is at the 3 month level than only 10% needs to be put in reserves. If it dips below the 2 month mark the next months tier is increased to the 25%.
[10:17] Rose Springvale: trebor, you are kind of out of order… but thanks for your input
[10:17] Rose Springvale: lets let the RA finish then we’ll open to citizens
[10:17] Trebor Warcliffe: Sorry I had typed it earlier and was waiting to hit enter
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Black is so slimming
[10:18] Rose Springvale: do other RA members have questions?
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and goes with everything
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: The operating funds and reserves are too often confused.
[10:18] Solomon Mosely raises hand
[10:18] Rose Springvale: go on solomon
[10:18] Arria Perreault: can we reserve some money for expansion projects?
[10:18] Solomon Mosely: when you mentioned us being in the red,
[10:19] Solomon Mosely: what happened, according to your reports, that brought us out?
[10:19] Arria Perreault: (sorry: you answer after Sol)
[10:19] Solomon Mosely: i wonder if that “red” time was the projection of the AA 6-month tiers, and then they got paid up
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Getting rid of Gordon Brown got us outta the Red
[10:20] Rose Springvale: actually we are out of time again. we need to either extend or perhaps have sonja come back next week with more specifics? I don’t want to leave Kas hanging
[10:20] Pip Torok: (and into the Fire but thats UK-beeswax, Stui!
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Solomon, the main thing that happened to improve the finances is that a fair amount of land that was owned by the government was sold to individuals.
[10:20] Solomon Mosely: i’m fine with thatk, thanks sonja
[10:21] Rose Springvale: RA? motion to extend or shall we move the questions to the forum?
[10:21] Solomon Mosely: questions to forum
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine to continue, so I’d move to continue…
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol nods
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: forums pls thx sonja
[10:21] Rose Springvale: smiels, need a motion
[10:21] Pip Torok: agree with Sol
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: motion to move discussion to the forums
[10:22] Rose Springvale: thank you cindy. second?
[10:22] Solomon Mosely: second
[10:22] Pip Torok: second
[10:22] Arria Perreault: i can read the answer in the forum
[10:22] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:22] Pip Torok: aye
[10:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
[10:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[10:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:23] Rose Springvale: more votes can register, but motion carries
[10:23] Rose Springvale: thank you Sonja
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have to go, see you later
[10:23] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming stui
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pie needs the computer
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: bye stui
[10:23] Arria Perreault: à bientôt
[10:23] Pip Torok: bye stui
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: bye Stui
[10:23] Cindy Ecksol: bye stui!
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (Pie’s fault)
[10:23] Rose Springvale: i know there are a lot of questions still for sonja, so perhaps she can open a thread for us with a summary of her report
[10:24] Kaseido Quandry: bye Stui
[10:24] Rose Springvale: commission reports… lets keep these brief
[10:24] Rose Springvale: Elections…Gwyn?
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: not sure if she is here. Don’t see her tag.
[10:25] Rose Springvale: she’s back and forth i think…. Lilith would you like to go ahead with commerce? we’ll work Elections in when she’s back
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: sure
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: the Commerce Commission has not hold a meeting yet…
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: but the first one is scheduled for Sat 7/17 8 am
[10:26] Rose Springvale: smiles. thank you. done?
[10:26] Kaseido Quandry shudders
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: ok
[10:26] Rose Springvale: Citizenship? Arria?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: I will publish a first date for a public meeting next week
[10:27] Rose Springvale: great, thank you.
[10:27] Rose Springvale: Finance …Tor?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: I am also busy to get some datas
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks for the opportunity to chair this commission.
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: In the past month, the finance commission met three times at different times and days of the week.
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope this has provided times convenient to most interested citizens.
[10:28] Arria Perreault: I am happy if poeple help me to get them
[10:28] Rose Springvale: we will Arria thanks
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Transcripts for these meetings are found at:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: July 3, 2010 8AN SLT
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2976
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: June 30, 2010 7 PM SLT
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2974
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: June 30, 12 PM (noon) SLT
[10:28] Solomon Mosely: is this a “tor bot”?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2973
[10:29] Solomon Mosely:
[10:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: this is making it easy
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:29] Kaseido Quandry: nicely done!
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will have a formal report at next RA meeting. Until then, I would appreciate that any comments be made on the forum.
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will open a general discussion thread in case anyone wishes to make comments on the Finance Commission meetings.
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Tentative times for future meetings are:
[10:29] Pip Torok is all for making it easy …
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Monday, July 19th at 7:00 PM SLT
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Sunday, July 25th at 8:00 AM SLT
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Monday, July 26 at 8:00 AM SLT
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: let me know if there can be better times
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: This group of meetings will try to limit the focus on proposed tier revamps.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I just got permissions to add to the calendar, so I will make use of this calendar as well as in-world notices.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you for all the support shown for the work of this commission.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: btw, I remcommend that eveyone use and automated system for reports.
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: should i press “1” to leave a question?
[10:31] Rose Springvale: Thank you Tor, for your work. Remember that the chair goes to all the meetings, though the rest of us have the opportunity to pick and choose. I appreciate the work you all do
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: saves on typing time
[10:31] Rose Springvale: Sol, lets take it to forums or the meetings, or save for next RA meeting
[10:31] Rose Springvale:
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: heh, sure
[10:31] Rose Springvale: please
[10:31] Rose Springvale: gwyn is still away, so we’ll go on to communications. Kas?
[10:31] Kaseido Quandry: sure, thanks Rose
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: The Communications Commission report has been up on the forums for two weeks:
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2969
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll summarize quickly
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: This was an *excellent* process, and very educational
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I encurage the other committee chairs to move ahead – it’s very interesting, and doesn’t take a horrible amount of time
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: Contrary to my original proposal, citizen discussion focused almost entirely on inworld comms
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: the proposed legislation reflects the concerns expressed by citizens at the meetings – both CDS political figures and just interested people
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: the high points are –
[10:34] Kaseido Quandry: open posting access to the inworld citizens group to *everyone* and encourage use (subject to standard content concerns) as a means of building community
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: ensure that the Excecutive communications team has roles and responsibilities set *in writing* each term
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: and that all communications *other than* governmental functions be left to self-organization in the community
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: that’s the summary, and I’d be happy to take questions
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question
[10:36] Rose Springvale: Thanks Kas. For anyone who hasn’t done so, you can get a copy of the proposed legislation in the box
[10:36] Rose Springvale: Pat go ahead
[10:36] Arria Perreault: i have one too
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: how many official channels does this leave us with? there seemed to be a proliferation of them. does this rationalise them at all?
[10:37] Kaseido Quandry: By my count, we have the portal, Twitter, Facebook and a variety of inworld tools for governmental use primarily/exclusively
[10:37] Pip Torok: kas … why shd roles & responsibilities for Exec comms be set _each_ term?
[10:37] Rose Springvale: wait pip, Arria is next after pat
[10:37] Pip Torok: ok
[10:38] Rose Springvale: i think there was a second part to pat’s question kas
[10:38] Rose Springvale: rationalizing?
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry scrolls back
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: thx kas. is there any intention to rationalise these so we can tell ppl where to look for info?
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: Yes, absolutely –
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to be able to say ‘use the calendar, its always up to date’ rather than ‘look at three or four channels’ one of them might be right!
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: The previous team has done a good job of establsihing the portal as a clearinghouse –
[10:39] Rose Springvale: maybe you can explain what you mean by rationalizing, i think we have some confusion
[10:39] Rose Springvale: (non english speakers particularly)
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: i mean limiting it to a number of channels we always use
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: and one primary intent of this proposal is to establish inworld equivalents – one-stop info shopping, bascailly
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: so that ppl always know where to look
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: I think I’ve answered taht
[10:39] Rose Springvale: good, thanks. Arria?
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: and the burden of updating them with info is minimised
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami: ty kas
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a question.
[10:40] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, Pat, that’s a challenge and workload to be minimized
[10:40] Rose Springvale: (after pip tor)
[10:40] Kaseido Quandry: I think Arria’s next?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: arria is typing on that touch screen, lets give her a sec
[10:41] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, k
[10:41] Arria Perreault: i think the current proposal focuses too much on in-world communication. I do understand this need. I would like we mention the duties of the executive team on public informations, on the portal
[10:42] Rose Springvale: do you have a proposal Arria?
[10:42] Arria Perreault: i have written my remark on the forum
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: if you have proposed language for an amendment, I’d welcome it
[10:42] Rose Springvale: maybe more work for the commission on that issue?
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:43] Rose Springvale: (hehe, you thought you were finished kas lol)
[10:43] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think this proposal *excludes* anything, and wasn’t meant as a laundry list of tools, but of process
[10:43] Rose Springvale: recognizes cindy after tor
[10:43] Arria Perreault: The contains contains all necessary public informations about laws, processes, positions, finances. the Executive team is responsible for that
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think anyone questions that at all
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Thanks Arria. We can make sure that sonja and anna have that information
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Pip?
[10:44] Arria Perreault: a next team could forget this duty
[10:44] Pip Torok: moment please
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, you’d asked, “why each term” – that’s a good question
[10:45] Pip Torok: yes ….
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: ok – different people have different strengths and interests –
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: and, to meet Arria’s concern – it’s a way of ensuring some specific named person is responsible for each function each term
[10:45] You decline Caledon RFL Auction – Tanglewood Forest from A group member named Fogwoman Gray.
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: so there’s no question of who’s supposed to do what, or who to contact for expertise about any particular function
[10:46] Pip Torok: but youd consider slower freq if nec?
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: well, each Chancellor selects their own team –
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: I’d think at that time, they’d parcel out responsibility
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: if the team doesn’t change, then it can just carry over, of course
[10:47] Rose Springvale: thanks Pip, Tor, i think you are next
[10:47] Pip Torok: good, tks
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I think section F addressed my concern
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: it was
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: if regional commissions could get their own subscribomatics
[10:47] Kaseido Quandry: If I could just add to my answer to Pip –
[10:48] Kaseido Quandry: information/marketing/PR is a *lot* of work, and it’s easy to overload and burn out
[10:48] Pip Torok:
[10:48] Kaseido Quandry: one ideal outcome of this act is to spread the work around – *without* losing accountability
[10:49] Rose Springvale: smile. finished Tor?
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:50] Rose Springvale: or kas do you want to reply to the subscribo matic one?
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: I think it’s a great suggestion, absolutely
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thanks, cindy is next if i remember right
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, I’m a bit concerned abou tthe detailed prescriptive nature of c. and d. in your proposal. I like the idea of accountability, but specifying exactly what mus tbe done seems a bit too controlling.
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 11, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:32 am
[10:51] Kaseido Quandry: how so, Cindy?
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: I’d be more comfotable if we left a lot of room for creativity on the part of the PIO.
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: and the PIO staff
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: for instance, I could see that at some point in time kiosks aren’t really the thing to serve our purposes
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: but with it written into law, someone would have to spend a lot of time maintaining them anyway
[10:52] Pip Torok: but wdnt a large part of the input come from the PIO, Cindy?
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy, in general I’m inclined to agree with you, but not here –
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: Yes, input SHOULD come from the PIO…and the Chancellor (when runing for office) should shape that vision
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: this was an area that citizens were adamant about
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:52] Rose Springvale: i think the citizens were pretty .. yes
[10:52] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: AND….the RA, in selecting the Chancellor, ought to be pushing for the things they want
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: and if some time in the future that changes drastically, well, that’s what the RA is for
[10:53] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questions?
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: I’m notsaying that kiosks should or should not be there — I happen to think they’re a good thing
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: can i say something
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: I would just not like to see laws that are so incredibly prescriptive.
[10:53] Rose Springvale: well, lets finish questions and then we will discuss Tor
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: let’s let people DO their jobs….not tell the what to do.
[10:53] Rose Springvale: any citizens have questions?
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: or how to do it.
[10:54] Rose Springvale: or other RA members?
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: this proposal seems like micromanagement in those two planks
[10:54] Rose Springvale: trebor?
[10:54] Rose Springvale: hold those thoughts cindy
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: done, thanks.
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: I love the street signs in NFS and find them very helpful.
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Are these availoable to be made and placed in the other SIMS?
[10:55] Sonja Strom raises hand
[10:55] Guillaume Mistwalker raises hand
[10:55] Pip Torok: (wd back Trebor in this)
[10:55] Rose Springvale: street signs are the chancellors area, so sonja did you want to address that?
[10:55] Solomon Mosely: oh, that happened? that’s great
[10:56] Sonja Strom: The street signs in Neufreistadt were made by someone who is no longer in the CDS.
[10:56] Trebor Warcliffe: Do we have the capability to make more?
[10:56] Sonja Strom: We can make new ones, or maybe find some that we would like that we could purchase,
[10:56] Rose Springvale: sonja did you have a question also?
[10:57] Sonja Strom: but we do not have any capability to have more of those particular signs – at least,
[10:57] Sonja Strom: not so long as that person is gone.
[10:57] Trebor Warcliffe: I’m not very good at making things yet but I will explore the possibility of purchasing similar ones in world
[10:57] Sonja Strom: I hope that answers the question.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: we have lots of great builders, maybe ask the guild to do it
[10:57] Sonja Strom: Also, one place we could bring up the issue of signage is the Guild, yes.
[10:57] Sonja Strom agrees with Rose.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: Sonja, were you raising your hand with a question or just to answer Trebor?
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose, it was only to provide the information I have in answer to the question.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: Guillame?
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, according to our website, we have no public information officer.
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we do
[10:59] Rose Springvale: ah, announced today, Anna Toussaint
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, very well.
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you
[10:59] Rose Springvale: if you’d like to help, i’m sure they would love more volunteers
[10:59] Rose Springvale: other questions?
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: That answers my question
[11:00] Rose Springvale: good
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami: i must get going. bye folks
[11:00] Pip Torok: Is Guillai#u,e reg to read the Forum?
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid I have to go as well… sorry it’s been a complicated day!
[11:00] Pip Torok: bye Pat
[11:00] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming pat
[11:00] Rose Springvale: we will roll your report to next week gwyn
[11:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:00] Pip Torok: shame … see you Gwyn
[11:01] Rose Springvale: are there other questions or shall we move to motion and discussion on the vote?
[11:01] Trebor Warcliffe: If anyone is aware of ownership changes that happen privately please notify me so I can update the owner/citizen list.
[11:01] The Tunaverse: Some Pig! at the Odd Ball 11am Sunday
[11:02] Rose Springvale: Trebor you need to work with Sonja and sudane on that.
[11:02] The Tunaverse owned by Tuna Oddfellow gave you ‘Some pig! at the Odd Ball, 11am-1pm Sunday’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Research%20 … 28/128/655 ).
[11:02] Arria Perreault: you should get a
[11:02] Rose Springvale: kas do you want to put the proposal on the table?
[11:02] Arria Perreault: trebor, you should get an IM from the tool of Timo
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: Sure – move to approve the Public Information Act as written
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol notes that we are overtime
[11:03] Arria Perreault: it would make your work easier
[11:03] Rose Springvale: (needs to be part of the exec staff for that Arria)
[11:03] Pip Torok: second
[11:03] Rose Springvale: thanks Cindy, we extended remember
[11:03] Rose Springvale: thanks pip
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol: oh, sorry!
[11:03] Arria Perreault: (i know)
[11:03] Rose Springvale: discussion on the motion?
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol: missed that
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[11:03] Rose Springvale: cindy
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: As I stated earlier, I’m not comfortable voting for htis in its current form.
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: items c and d are much too specific
[11:04] Rose Springvale: do you have revised language to suggest?
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I just would like to say that much of the info in our kiosks, esp at Anzere, has been out of date. I think the law should old the exec accontable. I also commend anna at already movig on this without the current law.
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I’d propose to drop them out altogether
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: that slipped
[11:04] Rose Springvale: ah, how do you feel about that kas?
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: No.
[11:04] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[11:04] Rose Springvale: other discussion?
[11:05] Cindy Ecksol: can I move to amend and see if I’ the only one?
[11:05] Cindy Ecksol: or are we just discussing?
[11:05] Rose Springvale: (and yes, Tor, anna has done great.) we are discussion the motion as presented, friendly denied, so we need to deal with this one i think
[11:06] Cindy Ecksol: if you need a motion, I move to amend Kas’ proposal to eliminate items c and d
[11:06] Rose Springvale: other comments or discussion?
[11:06] Rose Springvale: okay, cindy has moved to remove parts of the committee recommendation, kas does not agree. is there a second on this motion to amend?
[11:07] Rose Springvale: this all came from committee so i’m hestitant to change it
[11:07] Cindy Ecksol: it’s our job to do so if it makes sense
[11:07] Solomon Mosely: should we give it one more meeting and week in the forum?
[11:07] Rose Springvale: see no second to the amendment, so lets continue on the discussion
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: This has been up for discussion for two weeks on the forum
[11:07] Cindy Ecksol ods
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol nods
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i don’t know that there is much more to say sol, and yes, it’s been up for two weeks
[11:08] Solomon Mosely: sure, i just mean to give cindy time
[11:08] Rose Springvale: any citizen discussion?
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I have no problem with it as written. Even like it.
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i like it too
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: just feelit ties hands of volunteers too much
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: we have a bad habit of doing that
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Well really stuff dosn’t change that much.
[11:09] Rose Springvale: seeing no other hands, lets vote on the motion. All in favor of adopting the Public Information Act as presented by the commission, please say aye
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol smiles
[11:09] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:09] Pip Torok: aye
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: it SHOULD change
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: nay
[11:10] Yekaterina Kalchek /me
[11:10] Rose Springvale: sol and arria?
[11:10] Yekaterina Kalchek: sorry please ignore than last line
[11:10] Rose Springvale: smile at katya
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: aye
[11:11] Yekaterina Kalchek: last line from me; not Rose!!
[11:12] Rose Springvale: arria can enter her vote with the 7 day when she gets back. Chair votes Aye.
[11:12] Rose Springvale: we’ll see what happens on the forums and announce the results there and next week
[11:12] Rose Springvale: Thank you kas for your hard work on this, and i know you’ll be open to more meetings as needed.
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: oh, absolutely
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: and thanks to everyone who participated – we did some real democracy!
[11:13] Rose Springvale: and thank you to all the citizens and RA members who participated, it was a great commission
[11:13] Rose Springvale: Concerns of RA members?
[11:13] Rose Springvale: smile Announcements? (has the game started yet?)
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: now that we all have calendar privileges, I hope everyone will post comission meetings
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yes! that is great
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: that rocks – big thanks to Anna for that
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: well in advance, eh?
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yes anna acted very quickly
[11:14] Rose Springvale: she’s got energy, let’s help her so she doesn’t burn out
[11:14] Pip Torok agrees
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol:
[11:14] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:14] Lilith Ivory: uhm I still try to figure out where to find my google ID
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: i have already offered any help i can provide.
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: is anybody able to help me with that?
[11:15] Rose Springvale: great, thanks Tor
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, you don’t need a google id to view the calendar — it’s open to anyone
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: oh i have something
[11:15] Rose Springvale: Lilith, i’ll help you
[11:15] Rose Springvale: she has to have one to post
[11:15] Rose Springvale: yes Tor?
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: yea but I might need it to post soething
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: In a conversation with a citizen
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: and you can register with any e-mail address to post
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: ah ok thank you
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: we began to think that NFS and AM could use an update
[11:15] Rose Springvale: update?
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: of ground texture and trees
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, as time goes on I think we look a little shabby next to some sims.
[11:16] Rose Springvale: yes, i think people have been talking about that for a while. Should it go to the guild?
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: just wanted to voice that here
[11:16] Pip Torok: the right place imo …
[11:16] Rose Springvale: lets send a note to moon and see if we can get that on their agenda
[11:17] Rose Springvale: Anything else?
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: ooh also
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:17] Rose Springvale: yes tor???
[11:17] Arria Perreault: aye to the Public Information Act
[11:17] Rose Springvale: thank you arria! motion carries
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry cheers
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be nice if we could have the NG consider planning a new sim asap
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Arria!
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[11:17] Rose Springvale: we will get to that i think next month Tor, needs to be a directive from RA
[11:18] Pip Torok: supports Tor on this
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: see, we actually did something, and it hardly hurt at all, lol
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: sure I understand
[11:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Personally I think we need to get the current SIMS in order so to speak before we expand.
[11:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Just my thoughts.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: kas, will you work with sonja and anna to help implement the law?
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: absolutely
[11:18] Pip Torok: can do both at the same time, I suggest, trebor …
[11:18] Rose Springvale: thanks trebor, exactly the discussions we need to have in RA before we send a directive
[11:19] Rose Springvale: so we’ll put it on the agenda as soon as we have a spot
[11:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes if we have enough participants I feel that could be accomplished.
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:19] Rose Springvale: if there are no other announcements, we could have a motion to adjourn…
[11:19] Arria Perreault: i have to go : WC final starts soon. We can talk about the question of Arias and citizen involvment in a next meeting
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: i motion w adjoun
[11:19] Rose Springvale: yes Arria!
[11:19] Pip Torok: second
[11:19] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:19] Pip Torok: aye
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:20] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:20] Solomon Mosely: aye
[11:20] Rose Springvale: Thank you all .. great meeting!
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: woot!
[11:20] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 24 July 2010

Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:15 am
[9:02] Rose Springvale: Good morning everyone. Let me remind you all that all CDS meetings are recorded and transcripted, so if you speek you consent to such is presumed
[9:03] Ranma Tardis: good morning
[9:03] Rose Springvale: The first 15 minutes of our meeting are reserved to hear the concerns of citizens. Glad to see some of you here today, Anyone have somethign they want to say?
[9:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:04] Rose Springvale: come on Ranma! i know you do!
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: well not sure how to say it
[9:04] Rose Springvale: its just us, conversationally is fine
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: well I am now not a citizen of the CDS
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn knows she owes some public apologies but won’t waste the RA’s time with them and prefers to listen to Ranma instead.
[9:05] Rose Springvale: i believe you are welcome to speak, but if you don’t feel comfortable, that’s fine
[9:05] Ranma Tardis: we need to have an understanding of each others views
[9:06] Rose Springvale: that’s pretty broad…
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quite…
[9:06] Ranma Tardis: true
[9:07] Ranma Tardis: so now what? AA has left the CDS
[9:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:08] Rose Springvale: we move forward Ranma. and that’s what the RA will be addressing this term, how CDS will move forward. I hope you’ll stick around to see
[9:08] Rose Springvale: Jeroma, did you have somethign you want to discuss too? we only get a few minutes
[9:08] Ranma Tardis: am sure, so much to do in rl
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so too… I mean, you have been around for ages, Ranma, you’ve seen how things have changed over time…
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like to add something
[9:09] Ranma Tardis: yes I sort of liked the Neualtenberg projekt
[9:09] Rose Springvale: smiles.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:10] Rose Springvale: Tor its conversation, you can speak, and i see jeroma typing too, want to make sure we give time to the citizens.. ra has another slot
[9:10] Jeroma Wycliffe: Not really, I’m too mystified by current affairs to have much to add. Some obvious hidden fires I can’t sort through.
[9:10] Rose Springvale: i understand Jeroma. Me too.
[9:10] Ranma Tardis: am still a member of Kendra’s guild
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would you care to share them, Jeroma?
[9:10] Rose Springvale smiles She’s still on my friends list
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[9:11] Lilith Ivory is sad to have met Kendra only once
[9:11] Rose Springvale: Hi Rosie, we are sharing citizens concerns now, so if you have one, jump right in
[9:11] Rose Springvale: (hi Imotali )
[9:11] Rosie Gray: okay thanks
[9:11] Rosie Gray:
[9:11] Rose Springvale: didn’t meant to overlook anyone
[9:11] Imotali Antiesse has a question: Will this RA be separated after the demerger ( hi Rose)
[9:12] Rose Springvale: this RA is the RA of CDS, so it is already
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Separated? How so?
[9:12] Jeroma Wycliffe: Gwyn: “hidden fires” meaning underlying motivations that make the merger impossible to some.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: AA is no longer part of CDS
[9:12] Rosie Gray: has some decision been made about de-merging?
[9:12] Ranma Tardis: in physical position?
[9:12] Rosie Gray: oh
[9:12] Rose Springvale: yes, Al Andalus announced its withdrawal on Thursday Rosie
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:13] Rosie Gray nods: I see
[9:13] Rose Springvale: no decisions on phisical location yet Ranma
[9:13] Rose Springvale: lots of strong feelings
[9:13] Ranma Tardis: hopes there will be free transit between the two
[9:13] Rose Springvale: tollls have been discussed
[9:14] Rosie Gray: does that mean that the sims won’t be connected?
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: yea
[9:14] Rose Springvale: that decisions hasn’t been made yet Rosie.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami:
[9:14] Rose Springvale: by either side, i’ll add
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: hopes we remain friends
[9:14] Carolyn Saarinen: Tolls or trolls? One under everybridge?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: hi Caro
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, true — although I hope to ressurect Kas’ old proposal … in due time
[9:14] Carolyn Saarinen: As-saláamu :alái-kum
[9:14] Lilith Ivory hopes that also
[9:14] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Caro
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: Hi Caro
[9:15] Imotali Antiesse walaikumsalam Caro
[9:15] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aleikomosalam
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: lots of tools here in Oklahoma, might even be a troll under the old route 66 bridge
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: tolls
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Trolls and Tolls
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:15] Rose Springvale: perhaps we should have a town hall meeting to discuss the feelings issue that seem to be haunting some of our citizens
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that!
[9:15] Rose Springvale: because i dont’ think we can address those in a 15 minute concern hour
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:15] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: This is still a very sensitive time so close after the AA decision to de-merge. Tempers or feelings of anger are in some cases still very hot. I hope everyone who is part of CDS and AA can wait a bit before making a final decision to leave CDS or AA themselves.
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Tor!
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: nicely said, Tor!
[9:16] Jeroma Wycliffe: Absolutely
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (welcome, Delia!)
[9:16] Rose Springvale: We are at time and have a few more citizens who’ve joined us… shall we extend this section of our agenda or move on?
[9:16] Delia Lake: /hello everyone
[9:16] Delia’s translator: / Bună ziua tuturor
[9:16] Rose Springvale: if we want to extend, i’ll need a motion
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in extending a bit
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. motion to extend
[9:16] Rose Springvale: how long….
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s say 10 more minutes?
[9:17] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Delia
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: second
[9:17] Rose Springvale: okay. All in favor?
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:17] Ranma Tardis: while there are two governments we can only be truly spilt if we the citizens allow it
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Sudane
[9:17] Sudane Erato: hi
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: hi sudane
[9:17] Rose Springvale: okay, we’ll extend to 9 27.
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
[9:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
[9:18] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to speak more
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: nothing says we can not do things toughter
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Anyone care to follow up on Tors comment?
[9:19] Rosie Gray: I’m mainly here to listen
[9:19] Rose Springvale: okay, Soro, anything you want to add?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Nothing to say. Its been said.
[9:20] Imotali Antiesse just curious cat wondering how AA government will be.
[9:20] Rose Springvale: that will be for AA to determine Imo, not the business of CDS now
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just say that there are more forms of unions than merely political ones.
[9:20] Imotali Antiesse: Gracias Rose
[9:20] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear, Gwyn
[9:20] Rose Springvale: yw
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: We seem to be all connected. Like it or not our association with CDS binds us all.
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: we are sort of a family
[9:21] Rose Springvale: this is the CDS ra meeting after all
[9:21] Carolyn Saarinen: No we aren’t
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Not any more
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bonds can go beyond words written in paper.
[9:22] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[9:22] Rose Springvale: if not we’ll go back to the agenda
[9:23] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your concerns. we will try to schedule a town hall in the next week and hope those of you with confusion or concern will come and discuss the after affects
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[9:23] Pip Torok: hi everyone
[9:23] Rose Springvale: any ideas of a good time for that?
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I am on vacation for two weeks and am free much of the time.
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn says hi to Pip too
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: hi pip
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: hi pip
[9:24] Pip Torok: hi Tor …
[9:24] Rose Springvale: oh good Tor,so if we need to extend todays discussion perhaps we can do it on Thursday, so those who can’t come to Saturday meetings can attend
[9:24] Pip Torok: and Lilith!
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with that, Rose….
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: uuuuuhhhh
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:25] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Tor notes that he talks too much
[9:25] Rose Springvale: sorry Tor… lets discuss at the end of the meeting ..see what we need
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or have two sessions, one on Thursday, the other on Sunday or so
[9:26] Rose Springvale: well, our sundays seem pretty full these days…
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True hehe
[9:26] Rose Springvale: we can do a town hall on one of the days, thursday or Saturday, whichever the RA meeting doesn’t need
[9:26] Rose Springvale: lets go on
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could do it on Saturday if we’re finished with the agenda
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[9:26] Rose Springvale: Do we have any additions or amendments to the agenda?
[9:26] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[9:27] Rose Springvale: thinks tor’s sure is lagged…
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:27] Rose Springvale: not in re agenda
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a suggestion… create a commission to analyse and study what to do next after the decision to de-merge…
[9:27] Rose Springvale: though i note he’s put proposed legislation on the forums, which we may get to, but we can bring that motion in that portion of the agenda
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… I think that a Town Hall first… would be better
[9:27] You decline Harbor Dive & Tackle from A group member named hjordis Kjeller.
[9:28] Pip Torok agrees
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: listen to citizens first, and only then structure things, and possibly call for a commission
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, well, I have no further suggestions re: agenda
[9:28] Carolyn Saarinen: I thought CDS opinion held that commissions were useless.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: well, that would require yet another commission which have been labeled as ineffective, and since CDS didn’t make the decision, think we need to stay focussed on the business that CDS wants to pursue
[9:28] Rose Springvale: but you can propose it when you are ready
[9:29] Pip Torok: did you, Caro?
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely not today, no.
[9:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Onlty from reading the CDs forums Pip
[9:29] Rose Springvale: There were seven day votes outstanding on the creation of the Communications legislation that we adopted, but i don’t see where they were exercised
[9:29] Rose Springvale: So that legislation is now law.
[9:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Ask Arria
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: let me try to find the link rose
[9:29] Rose Springvale: sure pat, for the record, but i dont’ think it changes the result
[9:30] Rose Springvale: while you are looking, lets move to commission reports.Elections…Gwyn?
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: indeed rose. for the record:
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2972
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure… I’ll be quick, so to give others more time.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Election commission managed to meet twice so far,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, uh, unlike some comments that commissions are useless,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: i should rather report the contrary!
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in fact,
[9:31] Rose Springvale: (RA, please put those votes in the RA discussion thread in the future.)
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the second meeting,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we managed to deal pretty much with all points on the original agenda
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I was expecting eprsonally to hold more meetings!)
[9:31] Rose Springvale applauds
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would really like to thank everybody who has attended this commission so far.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You guys were wonderful.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we’re in a position to make some good suggestions for the RA to adopt as legislation.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not merely vague hints or so… there are concrete ideas, good ones
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next meeting will really be a review of what has been suggested
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to have a document ready for everybody to comment and help to write
[9:33] Rose Springvale: and then you will be ready for presentation to the RA?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so, yes.
[9:33] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[9:33] Rose Springvale: do you have the next meeting scheduled?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there will be just one more meeting, and then we can rpesent the suggestions to teh RA
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet! hehe — probably next Sunday (not tomorrow!)
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn is open to suggestions
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt: good job Gwyn
[9:34] Rose Springvale: that sounds fine.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not my credit — please thank the people who attended, Tor
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And my 5 mins are pretty much over.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all again
[9:34] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[9:34] Rose Springvale: Commerce… Lilith?
[9:35] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: we had our first meeting last saturday
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: and have been able to collect a lot of good ideas already
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: still have to sort them hehe
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m thinking about holding the next meeeting on tuesday …maybe 6pm
[9:36] Rose Springvale: Do you find the commission helpful Lilith?
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m going to post the time at the calendar and the forum soon
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I think there are a lot of things that can be done easily
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: to help our merchants
[9:37] Rose Springvale: great
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: and sure is the commision helpful
[9:37] Rose Springvale: we look forward to what we can do to support your efforts
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: to collect the ideas and bring them on it way
[9:37] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:38] Rose Springvale: great.. want to say more now, or wait?
[9:38] Lilith Ivory: done if there are no questions or suggestions
[9:38] Rose Springvale: i just would encourage the citizens to help you… there were some great discussions at your last meeting, imho
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees!
[9:39] Rose Springvale: thanks for your report. Citizenship, Arria?
[9:39] Lilith Ivory nods and wants to thank everybody who helped her already
[9:39] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:39] Arria Perreault: The Citizen commission has met already once
[9:39] Arria Perreault: last sunday
[9:40] Arria Perreault: before the meeting, I have made a collection of datas: lists of citizen, of parcels, all the laws related to this question
[9:40] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2996
[9:41] Arria Perreault: you can have all evidences on the forums, including the transcript
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we have discussed different points
[9:42] Arria Perreault: the citizenship is defined in the Constitution. it would mean a constitutional amendment (2/3)
[9:43] Arria Perreault: there are also different laws, especially the law which allow citizenship to group members, under some conditions
[9:43] Rose Springvale: yes, there are many issues. Do you think your commission will be able to bring a recommendation to the RA?
[9:43] Arria Perreault: yes, I think
[9:44] Arria Perreault: we will work on this law
[9:44] Arria Perreault: we have also discussed about the fact that citizen have not only rights, but also duties
[9:44] Arria Perreault: one of this duties is to maintain our sims
[9:44] Rose Springvale: it would be best if this can happen before the next election season begins in mid october, so hopefully you can bring us a full report and recommendations after the Electiosn commission
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Do you have any more meetings scheduled?
[9:45] Arria Perreault: I will organize a new meeting soon
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Thank you.
[9:45] Arria Perreault: yw
[9:45] Rose Springvale: okay, lets go to Comms. Kas?
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: ok, this’ll be short –
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I’
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve slacked for the past couple weeks
[9:46] Rose Springvale: where are our tomatoes!
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: Next up is to schedule a meeting with Anna and Sonja to get the notice provisions implemented,
[9:46] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: no you haven
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: t kas
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to compensate, there was a LOT of work done before those two weeks, so you’re ahead in time
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: and to get from them some good times for a next commission meeting, to focus on getting them some good volunteer help where they might want it
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Gwyn
[9:47] Kaseido Quandry: so that’s that, for now
[9:47] Rose Springvale: okay, great Kas. Looking forward to the implementation of the law!
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn has just a comment (not a suggestion). I really would like to add that commissions have been a rather long-standing feature of the CDS. Not all commissions are perfect, of course; and we certainly never had so many at the same time as during this term; but overall I have the strong opinion that their work is *very* useful, often comes up with completely unforeseen suggestions (which is GOOD), and are rather less formal than the RA, so people are more comfortable there. They’re anything but “useless”. You can see from the reports here that a LOT of work was done, a lot was achieved, and suggestions tend to be concrete ideas and not vague or abstract suggestions. So I really disagree with the notion that commissions are not useful…
[9:48] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[9:48] Rose Springvale: lets go on to Finance
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok,
[9:48] Rose Springvale: so Tor has as much time as we can give him
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy
[9:48] Rose Springvale: hehe
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:48] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: well keep your chat boxes open, cuz i void typing if i can
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: In the past month the commission met three times and different times. I have tried to have meetings when on different days of the week and at different times.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope this has provided times convenient to most interested citizens.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me briefly list what the commission has discussed.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: –The treasure should make a separate AV to keep reserve funds separate from operating funds. Sudane will look into doing this in late July or August.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: –RA should request that the New Guild re-parcel the large lot in AM (AH2) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: –Collection of tier is important, but the current law inhibits the Chancellor and Treasure in their duty and desire to enforce tier collections.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Thus, we will propose change to the current law: to remove the stipulation regarding the necessity to implement a method of prepayment of tier,
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:24 am
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: “Is creating commissions a real work ? Is making a bill a result ? …A real project is something else than a commission work. ”
[9:50] Rose Springvale: shh caro
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: to instruct the Chancellor to repossess all fully or partially delinquent parcels two weeks in arrears and
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: to finally return all objects and set for sale any parcel delinquent for one month.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: The current law is NL 9-2 Land Sales Reclamation Act found at: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=240
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: –We also found support for making our tier more uniform. We suggested we would look at his question more after this RA meeting.
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: ;p
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: However, in general support exists for basing tier on the number of prims allotted to each parcel.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: –There was also concern regarding any costs related to the eventuality of de-merger between the five original CDS sims and AA sims.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane was asked to begin considering this possibility.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: –All in all on the commission seemed hopeful that we could continue work on an expansion of NFS.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I did not hold subsequent meetings for several reasons. One RL concerns on my part. But also we had a number of meetings just in the past week and I suspected there might be conflicts.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Finally, the merger question was coming to a resolution and I thought it best to let this question get settled.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I am on leave this next two week and hope to have several meetings and optimum times for all.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: The two motions for which the commissions found support are posted to the forums at:
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3007
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3006
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Thats it
[9:52] Rose Springvale: wow
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[9:52] Rose Springvale: great report. thanks for taking the time to do all that!
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a lot to digest — thanks Tor!
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: wow, great work!
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: what tool are you using to give ur report tor? it’s v handy
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: um Speakeasy
[9:53] Rose Springvale: Tor, would you like us to discuss the specific motions at this point?
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: the repaceling is probably the easiest
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: reparceling
[9:53] Rose Springvale: I think we know this commission is a huge one and will be ongoing for the term, so don’t get nervous, or relax too much
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:53] Rose Springvale: okay, lets post it in the record please
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we have two motions…
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the New Guild re-parcel the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
[i]The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The RA requests that the New Guild report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[9:54] Rose Springvale: thank you. Do we have a second for the motion?
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: umm, isn’t that the chancellors’ job?
[9:55] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[9:55] Rose Springvale: thank you muhammed
[9:55] Rose Springvale: now we can discuss
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry raises a hand
[9:55] Rose Springvale: kas
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to offer an amendment which I hope is just for clarification –
[9:56] Rose Springvale: ok…
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry whispers: in that last paragraph, to add after “re-parceling,” – “and re-pricing”
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Chopping up an insanely priced parcel alone doesn’t get us anything
[9:56] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: indeed kas
[9:56] Rose Springvale: any thoughts on that amendment?
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not totally agains repricing our land. But I wonder if that is too much to take on in this motion.
[9:56] Pip Torok: what amendment?
[9:57] Kaseido Quandry: scroll back, Pip
[9:57] Rose Springvale: so for now you’d reject the amendment to add repricing to this proposal
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami has a couple of questions when u r ready
[9:57] Tor Karlsvalt: i do agree with Kas, tho, our land seems to be prices way over comperable land elsewhere
[9:57] Rose Springvale: not friendly then, so i think we have to either have the amendment seconded and voted or withdrawn
[9:57] Arria Perreault: there is concept of pricing for each sim
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t see an amendment. cd we have the text pls?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: need either a second on kas’s motion or we return to the discussion
[9:58] Kaseido Quandry: in that last paragraph, to add after “re-parceling,” – “and re-pricing”
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: seconded
[9:58] Arria Perreault: can Kas write the motion in a clear text?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: did
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok…. I had missed that too
[9:58] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t get the text the first time
[9:58] Rose Springvale: okay, so now we are considering ONLY the amendment which adds repricing
[9:59] Rose Springvale: All in favor of amending the motion on the table to add repricing
[9:59] Rose Springvale: please say aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: i saw no amendment either Pat
[9:59] Arria Perreault: it would affect the pricing of the sim: two prim price for the same sim ….
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: if we are willing that is ok by me.
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: i agree, it’s daft to try selling it at that price. why not fix it lower? (but not at zero:))
[9:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:59] Rose Springvale: lets stick with procedure
[9:59] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:59] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: abstain
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: aye,
[10:00] Arria Perreault: is it only the selling price, not the ffes?
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: i have no problem as thre seems to be wide support for this.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: Kas, Tor?
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:00] Arria Perreault: fees*
[10:00] Rose Springvale: okay, motion carries, the motion on the table now will include repricing as well
[10:00] Pip Torok: can someone IM the amended motion to me (thanks)
[10:00] Rose Springvale: now we can discuss the motion, and i think Pat is in line next
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut the selling price.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: sorry, I dd not vote and I had a comprehesnsion question
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: tor, have the AM residents requested this reparcelling?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: you can speak after pat
[10:01] Arria Perreault: now I vote aye, as Tor has answered my question
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: and, isn’t this for the chancellor not the guild? (and not really us )
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[10:01] Rose Springvale: anyone want to respond to pat?
[10:02] Arria Perreault: I agree with Pat that it is risky to ask the Guild as it is a bit sleepy
[10:02] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can do that
[10:02] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…. my feeling is that we can certainly recommend the Chancellor with some action,
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: as amended
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but the RA shouldnt’t try to replace the Executive in its role
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the New Guild re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The RA requests that the New Guild report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: the guild will meet tomorrow
[10:02] Rose Springvale: is my understanding
[10:02] Sonja Strom’s ears perk up
[10:02] Arria Perreault: especially if it is only a farm for prims
[10:03] Arria Perreault: the Executive can decide of it will ask the Guild or not
[10:03] Rose Springvale: This parcel has been empty for nearly a year i believe
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami thought AM was already double-prim…
[10:03] Arria Perreault: we all want to solve this question, Rose
[10:03] Rose Springvale: I think the RA can make laws regarding land use
[10:03] Arria Perreault: the quickest soltion is to ask the Chancellor to do that
[10:03] Arria Perreault: and the Chancellor find a way to do this task
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: not sure i’ve had an answer on my first question
[10:03] Rose Springvale: so maybe this motion should be to request the chancellor to request the guild
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: it has been a problem since at least January and nothing was done.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… you see, my point here is the following. I think we ALL agree that this is something importan to do, and do quickly. My only fear is that we might be stepping outside the powers of the RA and thus the SC might veto the proposal… wasting even another week….
[10:04] Rose Springvale: who then will report back to the chancellor who will report to us. I think the community is asking, through this commission, which has met several times, for action.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with a motion to recommend teh Chancellor a course of action
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Rose
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: i’d be fine with that too gwyn
[10:05] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can even do it after the meeting
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[10:05] Pip Torok: me too
[10:05] Rose Springvale: i think the chancellor has the obligation to work with the guild
[10:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The chancellor attended at least two of the commissions meetings and had no objection.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: that’s what happened when we reparcelled CN anyway
[10:05] Arria Perreault: the Guild is a NGO
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wellllllllll the Chancellor IS a member of teh guild
[10:05] Arria Perreault: not a gov agency
[10:05] Rose Springvale: does anyone have the law handy?
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i propose an amendment
[10:06] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can decide about land
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: change “RA requests that the New Guild ” to “RA requests that the Chancellor”
[10:06] Arria Perreault: it’s in the Constitution
[10:06] Rose Springvale: Tor? friendly?
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Because a chancellor can decide, does not mean the RA can’t
[10:06] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:06] Rose Springvale: please just cite the scripture and verse if you have it Arria
[10:06] Carolyn Saarinen: and the thumb-bone connects to the arse-bone….”
[10:06] Arria Perreault: I second Pat’s amendment
[10:07] Rose Springvale: Tor how do you feel about the suggested amendment?
[10:07] Rose Springvale: (i’d like ot hear from Sudane, i think she has to do that actual work)
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: no problem as long as something gets done.
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Section 2 – Powers of the Chancellor
The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power:
(a) to determine the use to which any and all land in CDS shall be put;
[10:07] Rose Springvale: okay, so we can take that as a friendly amendment
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There we go.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria
[10:08] Rose Springvale: one might argue that use and size/pricing are different, but lets vote
[10:08] Arria Perreault: yw
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[10:09] Rose Springvale: in favor of changing the language of the motion to read RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
[10:09] Rose Springvale: again, only voting on the language of the motion, not the content
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:09] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: do we want to keep the NG involved?
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: or just give this to the chancellor?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: The Chancellor can decide if she want to ask the Guild
[10:10] Rose Springvale: the chancellor generally gets expertise from the NG
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:10] Arria Perreault: it’s not forbidden
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: let me change it then
[10:10] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:11] Rose Springvale: we are still votign
[10:11] Rose Springvale: only 5 votes so far, not passed yet
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry — aye on the vote )))
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:12] Arria Perreault: you hae to replace the first mention of the Guild too
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: wait have to correct paragraph second from the bottom too
[10:12] Rose Springvale: need to replace the new guild in the third paragraph
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[10:12] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:12] Rose Springvale: amendment carries, lets discuss content
[10:12] Rose Springvale: does the RA support the division of this land
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA requests the Chancellor to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: in this manner?
[10:13] Sudane Erato: question
[10:13] Rose Springvale: i have something to say, if others dont.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: okay sudane
[10:13] Sudane Erato: AM is a double-primmed sim
[10:13] Sudane Erato: and as such there is no other prim land available for a citizen to buy
[10:14] Sudane Erato: since there are so many prims on each parcel
[10:14] Sudane Erato: is it the intent to craete the only “prim parcel” that one person can buy?
[10:14] Rose Springvale: good question
[10:14] Rose Springvale: did your group discuss this Tor?
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we were going to leave the number of prim land parcels to the NG
[10:15] Rose Springvale: now chancellor i presume
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: the hope was we would maintain the open area as much as possible
[10:15] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questions?
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: is there demand for prim lots in AM tor?
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, there is interest
[10:15] Kaseido Quandry: I’d be interested in one
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: in prim land
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: ok. thx
[10:16] Rose Springvale: I’ve got one
[10:16] Pip Torok: so would AMUA
[10:17] Rose Springvale: AM is priced uniformly, all parcels at the same rate. Does it make sense to offer what will be a discount on ONE parcel, without offering it as a whole at the new discounted price? a lot of time went into planning the sim, and if price is the prohibitive factor, shouldn’t we deal with that beore chopping it up?
[10:17] Rose Springvale: lots of land in Am is already held as prim parcels
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good questions
[10:18] Rose Springvale: and it IS a double prim sim… so if some want more prims, might they choose to move to a bigger parcel if the price were reasonable?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: or is it the tier that is a problem too?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: (which i think is the problem, since the land didn’t sell even for 0 L)
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: True, but I think many like the parcels they are on
[10:18] Kaseido Quandry: oh, very good questions
[10:18] Pip Torok: the slope might present a problem for builds
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: and that parcel is concidered difficult to build on.
[10:19] Lilith Ivory nods
[10:19] Rose Springvale: it was built on before
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[10:19] Rose Springvale: before it was repossessed
[10:19] Kaseido Quandry: prim farms may be the best use – and keeping the open space would be nice
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: We coudl amend the motion again
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I always wanted to move there but can´t affort the tier (
[10:19] Rose Springvale: lets keep discussing before we amend again
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: change the AND to and AND/OR for repricing and reparcelling
[10:20] Rose Springvale: personally i’d like to see the chancellor take it to the New guild, as it was them who put the sim together
[10:20] Sonja Strom raises hand
[10:20] Rose Springvale: sonja?
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:21] Sonja Strom: As Chancellor I would be happy to take this to the Guild, and we can all proceed from there.
[10:21] Sonja Strom: With all respect to this Assembly,
[10:21] Sonja Strom: I feel this matter is best completed within the domain of the Executive,
[10:21] Pip Torok wd be fine with that
[10:22] Rose Springvale: i believe the commission was dealilng with the monetary effect of the land being idle
[10:22] Sonja Strom: naturally including the wishes of the RA.
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami would be find with that too
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so were looking for ways to fix that.
[10:22] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: *fine
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes rose
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s right
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: We wanted to see the land begin paying tier
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so lets go ahead and vote on the motion, and if the chancellor feels that we are out of line, perhaps the SC can deal with it
[10:23] Pip Torok: aye
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: aye
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:30 am
[10:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: nay, there is no need for the bill
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well… technically you’re right lol
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in practice, it’s nice to show that the RA cares
[10:24] Pip Torok: lol
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami:
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thus my “aye”)
[10:24] Rose Springvale: I’m opposed to the content, as i believe repricing of the whole sim should be considered before taking the plan apart, so i vote nay
[10:24] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:24] Rose Springvale: motion carries, we will see if the SC overrules it
[10:25] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a question
[10:25] Rose Springvale: yes?
[10:25] Sudane Erato: the re-pricing COULD be considered as a “one-time special” without violating your very valid concern
[10:25] Arria Perreault: now we are voting legislation, it would go to publish the motions, bills, acts we vote on the portal and to update the legislation
[10:26] Arria Perreault: we need a RA Archivist
[10:26] Rose Springvale: thank you for your concern Arria
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we’ll consider that on a future agenda, now we are in the finance commission report
[10:26] Arria Perreault: I add I am volunteering to do this task
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we can talk later
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: yay, thx arria
[10:26] Rose Springvale: Tor, you have another motion for the group i believe
[10:27] Rose Springvale: i am not accepting that at this time pat
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: um yes, this is more involved.
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[10:27] Rose Springvale: post it, i’ll brb
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whoopsie
[10:27] Arria Perreault: he thanks me for volunteer. Of course, my offer can be refused …
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments.
2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the
right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further intere
[10:29] Rose Springvale: okay, this is a motion from committee, so technically doesn’t need a second, but i’d like one for the record please
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: interest in the parcel.
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds it.
[10:29] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[10:29] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: it is very long
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: does not go in chat well
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: would a nc be better?
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: could you summarise the impact pls?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: is there more? yes, and lets put in the box
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: what changes as a result of passing this motion?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: hold on a second while we get the text in front of eveyrone
[10:31] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: i can’t add to the box
[10:32] Rose Springvale: just give me your notecard
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it is in forum
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, perhaps you could give it to Rose, she’ll put it inside the box
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah good, Arria
[10:32] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3007
[10:32] You decline ‘CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ) from Object.
[10:32] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Motion to amend NL 9-2’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:33] Rose Springvale: there now
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[10:33] Rose Springvale: okay. do you want to summarize for the assembly Tor?
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Currently the Chancelor and Treasurer find the law inadaquat
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: it leaves a loophole allowing landowners a way to avoid paying tier
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: and allows for some to skip paying tier when selling land.
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: So
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: This law will allow the Treas to reclaim but hold in reserve parcles if teir is overdue 14 days after the boxes close
[10:36] Rose Springvale: this shortens the current time substantially, correct?
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: then re-sell 30 days after the boxes close
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:36] Rose Springvale: so instead of a 3 month period without payments
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: boxes close on the 24th of evry month
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha yes. I see the issue… you could just stop paying tier one month before selling land, then tier would be the next owner’s issue… and in the mean time, for a month, nobody would have paid tier.
[10:36] Rose Springvale: the land could become productive again after 6 weeks?
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: looks like it
[10:37] Rose Springvale: and you still would not allow prepayments, correct?
[10:37] Sudane Erato: we do not now have a provision for pre-payments
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not yet
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: yes that is right rose, we do not have a provision for pre-paymens
[10:38] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one question (for clarification): “ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.”
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that if you own, say, 3 plots…
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact the current law is really no law at all as it was suspened pending establishment of prepayment system
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and forget to pay for one… the CDS can reclaim all the others?
[10:38] Rose Springvale nods
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry nods at Gwyn
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: that seems excessive
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: which is grossly unjust
[10:38] Rose Springvale: forget… with the number of notices
[10:39] Rose Springvale: seems a bit unrealistic
[10:39] Sudane Erato: the current system is that you pay for all at once… regardless
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: are not all tier payments collected from one box?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. I see. There is here a detachment of the notion of “paying fees” from “being a citizen”. A citizen is someone who pays ALL fees.
[10:39] Rose Springvale: i believe there is still provision for contact by the chancellor before forfeiture as well, correct?
[10:39] Sudane Erato: yes Lilith
[10:39] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so… this doesn’t really apply, does it?
[10:39] Rose Springvale: not sure what you are saying gwyn
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean hmm
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you cannot pay half the fee for a third of your land
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either you pay it all,
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or not at all.
[10:40] Sudane Erato: correct
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: right gwyn
[10:40] Rose Springvale: Sudane, if someone forfeits land though, intentionally, it comes off the box, correct?
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this item is really not necessary?
[10:40] Arria Perreault: can people abandon a land if they have someissue to pay?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: all they need to id notify?
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: that was the intention of the law to begin with
[10:40] Sudane Erato: yes, Rose, it does
[10:40] Rose Springvale: *is notify.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait… so the idea, Tor, is that this law validates how the land management system actually works?
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, I don’t have any objection!
[10:41] Rose Springvale: As tor said, this is pretty complicated legislation, and we have more items on todays agenda. Do we want to review this more and take it up next week?
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: the law as currently in force, really hampers the treasurer
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’re right! We should make sure that the laws reflect what we already do (de jure following de facto )
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Tor, Sudane, I would like to know if can people abandon a land if they have someissue to pay, with this updated law?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: I’d be happy to support this – *with* prepayments
[10:42] Rose Springvale: agreed kas.
[10:42] Sudane Erato: people can always abandon land
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn would love that too.
[10:42] Patroklus Murakami: i’d be interested to hear sudane and sonja’s views before voting on this
[10:42] Rose Springvale: do we have a motion to extend or table to the next meeting?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: move to table to next meeting
[10:42] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: second
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[10:43] Arria Perreault: yes, I second
[10:43] Rose Springvale: thank you, all in favor?
[10:43] Sudane Erato: i’m supportive of what Tor is proposing
[10:43] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:43] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:43] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:43] Arria Perreault: we need to talk about this in the forums
[10:43] Pip Torok: aye
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: ty sudane
[10:43] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But please, I’d love to second Pat’s suggestion as well — let’s have some info and suggestions from Sudane & Sonja
[10:43] Rose Springvale: thank you all, We’ll extend this discussion to the next meeting, on thursday or saturday, depending on the Commission chairs schedule
[10:43] Rose Springvale: please watch notices.
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: .)
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:44] Rose Springvale: thank you Tor, i know this is hard work and it is work we need to do carefully
[10:44] Arria Perreault: when is the next meeting?
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: RL calls
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: it is a joy
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:44] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming Soro
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Tor. I agree with Rose, and I think we’re pretty close to agree on that
[10:44] Arria Perreault: bye Soro
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Soro!
[10:44] Rose Springvale: next item on the agenda is a discussion of the by election.
[10:44] Sonja Strom is thankful to Tor, and believes this issue can move forward quickly
[10:44] Rose Springvale: As you all know, with the withdrawal of Al Andalus, we have lost one member of the RA
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: awwww
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:45] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:45] Rose Springvale: this leaves us one member short per the certiffied number of the representatives for this term
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … unless that member quickly buys a plot…
[10:45] Rose Springvale: but also leaves the RA at an even number, which we cannot leave
[10:45] Rose Springvale: he’s declined. i’ve asked
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: we have lots for sale
[10:45] Rose Springvale: My reading of the STV legislation says we must have a by election to fill the seat, so would propose that we send this to the SC to establish
[10:46] Rose Springvale: and carrry on as soon as possible
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well that really means we have to go with that…
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Any thoughts?
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me re-read that bit of law… I think it’s automatic,
[10:46] Rose Springvale: still they need to set dates
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. we really wouldn’t need to ask the SC for establishment
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no… the RA sets dates… that wasn’t changed yet
[10:47] Rose Springvale: okay, but someone oversees the voting…. yes?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn just asks for a few minutes!
[10:47] Rose Springvale: not on the agenda! lol
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fair’s fair
[10:47] Rose Springvale: does someone wish to propose dates then?
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: probably need to give ppl two weeks
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Rose. You ARE right.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies!
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.”
[10:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Straight from the Constitution.
[10:48] Rose Springvale: so lets refer it to the SC shall we?
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, motion to move it to the SC immediately.
[10:48] Arria Perreault: let the SC do it
[10:48] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok cool we are off the hook
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: second
[10:48] Rose Springvale: arria is that a second to gywns motion..okay pat
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Tor
[10:48] Arria Perreault: I am not sure the SC needs a motion
[10:49] Rose Springvale: doesn’t hurt
[10:49] Arria Perreault: second
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think so, either, but it doesn’t hurt…. right EOse
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Rose even
[10:49] Rose Springvale: lets just vote to refer and ask the SC to help us asap
[10:49] Arria Perreault: it’s an automatic process
[10:49] Arria Perreault: The SC must only know about the fact one RA memer is gone
[10:49] Rose Springvale: expected discussion of the fact that now we will each be representing about 5 people.. but okay
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s another story, but RA members are elected based on the number of citizens at the time of election; fluctuations are just accounted for at the next term.
[10:50] Pip Torok: which member has gone btw?
[10:50] Rose Springvale: the SC will be meeting monday i believe, so we can let them take it up
[10:50] Rose Springvale: Stui
[10:50] Pip Torok: ah ….
[10:50] Arria Perreault: I see Delia ….
[10:50] Rose Springvale: so no need to vote, fine. we can move on
[10:50] Delia Lake: the SC will meet at noon slt on Monday
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia
[10:51] Rose Springvale: will you take judicial notice that we don’t need to vote on this motion?
[10:51] Kaseido Quandry: Delia, could the SC meetings get onto the calendar?
[10:51] Delia Lake: yes
[10:51] Rose Springvale: ty
[10:51] Delia Lake: and yes
[10:51] Rose Springvale: We are to item V, concerns of RA members, with a prayer of finishing close to on time. Floor is open
[10:52] Rose Springvale: any concerns
[10:52] Rose Springvale: ?
[10:52] Rose Springvale: let me address the issue of archivist
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes please
[10:52] Rose Springvale: Cindy has volunteered to help as well but i havn’t seen her for a while, and since arria is already chairing a commission, makes sense to me to spread the wealth
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i think Cindy is travelling, but will be in touch with her to see if she is still interested
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i believe she has the skills to do the work as well
[10:53] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have an access to the portal and I a used to
[10:53] Arria Perreault: it’s not a big work for me
[10:54] Rose Springvale: yes arria, but i think we need to have more people with those skills involved, so lets just hold for now
[10:54] Arria Perreault: anyway, the position is elected
[10:54] Arria Perreault: by the RA
[10:54] Rose Springvale: thank you for your input. we’ll have it on the agenda in a future meeting. There have been several terms where no RA Archivist was elected at all, i’m not concerned
[10:54] Rose Springvale: other issues?
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: i propose arria for RA archivist
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose that teh major problem is to make sure that the backlog of laws is posted on the portal… whole years are missing
[10:55] Rose Springvale: indeed gwyn, but this term will be there
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that, Pat
[10:55] Arria Perreault: it’s a problem for citizen who don’t have an updated legislation
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: or perhaps we could propose both as joint archivists?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: folks, this is out of order
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[10:55] Rose Springvale: this is just discussion of concerns, no motions
[10:55] Arria Perreault: especially if we change the law about the way we pay fees
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that in effect creates a new role and a new item on the budget
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry, Rose, you’re right.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Any other issues?
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: lunch
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:56] Rose Springvale: 4 more minutes Tor!
[10:56] Rose Springvale: if there are no more concerns of the RA, we can move to announcements
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that.
[10:57] Arria Perreault: I have one
[10:57] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:57] Rose Springvale: go ahead Arria
[10:57] Arria Perreault: ty
[10:58] Arria Perreault: The Roman regional committee have decided to make a party on the beach on the 1st August
[10:58] Rose Springvale: oh, you are on announcements?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Calli will DJ
[10:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:58] Rose Springvale: not concerns? let me make sure we are finished with concerns first please… Folks? any more?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: (I told my concern already)
[10:59] Rose Springvale: last meeting there was concern about the departure of Arias, and i thought you wanted to talk about that, but happy to move on
[10:59] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, announcements
[10:59] Arria Perreault: we can talk about that
[10:59] Kaseido Quandry: Might that be more appropriate for the town hall meeting?
[11:00] Carolyn Saarinen: He’s actually gone at last?
[11:00] Pip Torok agrees with Kas
[11:00] Delia Lake: /
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I think CDS has to find a new dynamic and integrate new citizen with ideas and projects
[11:00] Rose Springvale: and how do you think that failed in this case?
[11:00] Carolyn Saarinen: More curtain calls than sinatra
[11:00] Pip Torok: need to define “gone” or “left”
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami think this will not end well….
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry agrees
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: As long as you all know he wanted to contoll all of LA for his university.
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:33 am
[11:00] Rose Springvale: Arria wanted to talk about it
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. Why is that a RA concern? With due respect to Arias, are we really going to review why all citizens come and go from the CDS, here at the RA?
[11:01] Pip Torok: ???? Tor?
[11:01] Rose Springvale: i promised to let her air her concern, so that’s why it is here
[11:01] Arria Perreault: I don’t think Arias wanted to “control” LA
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, this is a community, not a legislative, issue
[11:01] Arria Perreault: he did not pushed me out the sims
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And with due respect to Arria as well for bringing up the issue…
[11:01] Rose Springvale: Arria, are you satisfied that your concern as a legislator has been met?
[11:01] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think we should discuss ppl who are not here and their motives. i think this issue shd be discussed at another time and place
[11:01] Arria Perreault: my concern is that we have to be open with people with ideas
[11:02] Rose Springvale: and you think we are not
[11:02] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we need a law for that
[11:02] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Pat and Kas. This is really not the place not the time
[11:02] Rose Springvale: lets move to announcements
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please.
[11:02] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:02] Carolyn Saarinen chortles
[11:02] Rose Springvale: Arria has announced a beach party on August !?
[11:02] Pip Torok: no but keeping that in mind is a good thing Arria
[11:02] Rose Springvale: 1?
[11:02] Rose Springvale: sorry, missed the date
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: wooot
[11:02] Arria Perreault: The Roman regional committee have decided to make a party on the beach on the 1st August
[11:03] Rose Springvale: and is the Inaugural ball the day before, with the same dj?
[11:03] Arria Perreault: I will check the right time and publish it
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: busy weekend I see
[11:03] Rose Springvale: might want to coordinate with the chancellor
[11:03] Rose Springvale: Sonja, is that correct, the ball is on the 31st?
[11:03] Arria Perreault: we have discussed that
[11:03] Arria Perreault: and Calli have informed SOnja
[11:04] Arria Perreault: why not to have fun an entire weekn edn
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes, the Inaugural Ball is scheduled for the 31st,
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:04] Rose Springvale: smiles, we are the party project after all.
[11:04] Arria Perreault: we love parties
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and then a Beach Party is scheduled for the 1st.
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Why not?
[11:04] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: I think both sound fun
[11:05] Rose Springvale: okay, then lets have a motion to adjourn please
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: so moved
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[11:05] Rose Springvale: thank you,
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconsd
[11:05] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:05] Pip Torok: aye
[11:05] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: and, congratulations to us on getting through an entire meeting without so much as snarking, let alone fighting!
[11:06] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear kas
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:06] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your service. Please try to get your meetings up with as much notice as possible, and expect to continue the Finance commission report either on thursday or saturday this week
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I knew something was missing…
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[11:06] Jeroma Wycliffe: Most edifying
[11:06] Rose Springvale: taking the record now

Permalink.

RA Meeting 29 July 2010

Transcript, RA meeting July 29, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 pm
[11:03] Rose Springvale: we can take some time for citizens concerns and go on the record now, while we wait for quorum
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: mine is on the way
[11:03] Rose Springvale: no, i was touring steampunk sims Tor lol
[11:03] Rose Springvale: lets start
[11:04] Pip Torok: think of a desktop as an ipad thats too heave!
[11:04] Arria Perreault: agrees with Rose’s proposal
[11:04] Pip Torok: heavy
[11:04] Rose Springvale: this is a continuation of the RA meeting from last saturday, which we have called to complete the work on the Finance commissions current proposal
[11:04] Keila Forager: Hi Tor
[11:04] Keila Forager: Lilith
[11:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:04] Keila Forager: Pip
[11:04] Lilith Ivory: hiya
[11:04] Rose Springvale: That is all that we have on the agenda today, but we can do citizens concerns now. Remember that anything you say will be transcripted
[11:04] Rose Springvale: Any citizens want to speak?
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Kas
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor
[11:05] Rose Springvale: kas!
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: hi Rose!
[11:05] Arria Perreault: as citizen I have a request
[11:05] Rose Springvale: i think we will have quorum now, once Gwyn gets here
[11:05] Rose Springvale: okay, go on Arria
[11:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Calli
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello!
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Gwyn
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: Hi Lil! Wow, you look different! I like it!
[11:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli, hi Gwyn
[11:07] Rose Springvale: welcome CAlli and gwyy, you make quorum
[11:07] Callipygian Christensen waves hello
[11:07] Lilith Ivory: thank you
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew sorry…. teleporting was a bit tough
[11:07] Lilith Ivory: sometimes I get tired of my 2007 skin hehe
[11:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand the grid had some problems a bit ago??
[11:08] Kaseido Quandry: lol, yep!
[11:08] Kaseido Quandry: yes, logins were down this morning
[11:08] Rose Springvale: aArria is on an ipad and has a citizen request she’s typing in
[11:08] Lilith Ivory: yes I had a lot of trouble to come online
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it did
[11:08] Keila Forager: A meltdown..LOL usually happens after server updates..hehe
[11:08] Rose Springvale: smiles, was waiting for me i guess. I had no issues lol
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lucky Rose
[11:08] Lilith Ivory: lol, my groupe note came via mail
[11:08] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: did not get it inworld
[11:09] Rose Springvale: maybe we should send an im then
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: might be wise
[11:10] Keila Forager: [Updated 9:40 am PST] The issue that we are currently experiencing has been identified. However, we do not have an expected ETA. As soon as we have further information we will update this blog.
[8:48 am PST] We are aware that there are various technical issues taking place currently inworld and on the website. We are investigating this situation and working towards a quick resolution.
Some of the symptoms involved are difficulty to teleport, transactions failing and the inability to login. Please refrain from making inworld transactions, inventory transfers or rezzing items inworld. Please check this blog for further updates.
[11:10] Rose Springvale: does anyone else have citizen concerns?
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: did Arria crash?
[11:10] Rose Springvale: think we lost arria
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: went through a tunnel
[11:10] Rose Springvale: keila, Calli? anything you want to talk about?
[11:10] Callipygian Christensen: Translation: usual problem, please stand still until further notice
[11:10] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:10] Keila Forager: Nope..
[11:10] Pip Torok: can I suggest we hear Arria when she resurfaces?
[11:11] Keila Forager: not right now
[11:11] Rose Springvale: well, until she does we don’t havea quorum, so can’t really do anything anyway
[11:11] Pip Torok: ah!
[11:11] Callipygian Christensen: well we could remind people that the inaugural ball is on Saturday
[11:12] Rose Springvale: time?
[11:12] Pip Torok: yes (and dont forget that party calli)
[11:12] Lilith Ivory: I talked to some citizens yesterday who were concerned about floating flags and other items
[11:12] Callipygian Christensen: apparently not doing anything includes opening textures lol
[11:12] Rose Springvale: do we have dates for the by election? i know i got a note, just haven’t read it
[11:12] Lilith Ivory: maybe we could ask the executive to have a look and fix it
[11:13] Callipygian Christensen: 12 noon to 2 pm
[11:13] Rose Springvale: floating flags? more than the ones we did last night?
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH yes. We have a “strong recommendation” by teh SC to approve some dates
[11:13] Rose Springvale: thanks Calli
[11:13] Callipygian Christensen: and yes, a beach party on Sunday in LA
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Calli
[11:13] Lilith Ivory: there seem to be more things like the ones you fixed yesterday
[11:13] Rose Springvale: smiles. bet there won’t be volleyball
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry snickers
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn found a rental box from Emory down below at ground level.
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I see sudane set property in LA for sale.
[11:13] Callipygian Christensen: ha..there will be….*drum roll*…
[11:13] Rose Springvale: i suggest we make a list and send them to the chancellor
[11:14] Callipygian Christensen: lawn darts!
[11:14] Rose Springvale: yes???
[11:14] Rose Springvale: ahhh
[11:14] Callipygian Christensen: total fun until someone loses an eye
[11:14] Rose Springvale: now thats roman themed … hehe
[11:14] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: i have some back up eys in inventory
[11:14] Rose Springvale: thanks for your work on those parties Calli
[11:14] Keila Forager: add some gladiator games..lol
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: And I guess this is the first meeting without Pat as a member.
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: I can bring my lion!
[11:15] Callipygian Christensen: oh, I am not doing much other than playing music and announcing, but thank you lol
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Arria
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, Arria, I didn’t see your IM!!!
[11:15] Rose Springvale: ah, great, arria is back
[11:15] Pip Torok: wb Arria
[11:15] Rose Springvale: lets start our meeting and go back to the concerns when Tor is finished
[11:15] Callipygian Christensen: lilith..it can battle my tiger
[11:15] Rose Springvale: so we are sure to get our work done today
[11:15] Arria Perreault: sorry, we went through several tunnels
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: hehe good idea
[11:15] Rose Springvale: Tor, do you want to put your motion up again? i think its in the box on the table still
[11:16] Arria Perreault: i will tell my concern at the end
[11:16] Rose Springvale: kk
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think it is
[11:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: oh it is
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:16] Rose Springvale: amendment of NL9-2
[11:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Motion to amend NL 9-2’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[11:16] Arria Perreault: i would be happy if you paste it in the chat
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: it is too long to post in chat
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: or i could just post each section
[11:17] Arria Perreault: i cannot open notecard
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:17] Rose Springvale: section by section is okay Tor
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: let me try
[11:17] Lilith Ivory nods
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
[color=SlateGray]1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: 2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: 4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclamation shall be returned, and a notice of the reclamation sent to the landowner.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale until 30 days after the due date has passed. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. Thirty days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.
ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
[11:19] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: 7. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: 8. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.
Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
[11:19] Rose Springvale: thanks
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: that is the whold act including amendments
[11:19] Rose Springvale: Now to review, i believe this motion is on the floor, duly seconded
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[11:20] Rose Springvale: i also would like to point out that the Treasure indicated she supported it at the last meeting
[11:20] Rose Springvale: so.. discussion?
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[11:20] Arria Perreault: i have a question
[11:20] Rose Springvale: arria?
[11:20] Arria Perreault: no more tunnels
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[11:21] Arria Perreault: what mean these 5 days ? do we have only 5 days to pay?
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut a limitation on the treasure
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: she sets the payment schedule
[11:21] Arria Perreault: c
[11:22] Rose Springvale: Does this mean that the actual due date is 5 days after boxes open?
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: currenlty you have until the boxes open on the 28th of the month through the 24th i think
[11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I think so too
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: it can’t be any earlier
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: we can remove it
[11:22] Rose Springvale: why don’t we have a set day though?
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: we don’t
[11:22] Rose Springvale: i know
[11:22] Arria Perreault: the 24 of the next month? i seenow
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: the treas sets the date
[11:23] Rose Springvale: so technically, people can have a full month before they are even past due, then another 14 days?
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: but the treas has no limitations on that date
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wait… I thought it was just 14 days?
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: rose that is correct
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, 6 weeks instead of 3 months…
[11:23] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:23] Rose Springvale: still too long for me
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: well the boxes are open until the 4th
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: 24th
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Rose!
[11:23] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: we can shorten it, but…
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really don’t see why just 14 days is not enough
[11:24] Lilith Ivory: there might be RL issues that keep you away from paying
[11:24] Rose Springvale: what if we change that window of being open for 4 weeks, but also provide for prepayments
[11:24] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Gwyn
[11:24] Pip Torok agrees with Gwyn
[11:24] Lilith Ivory: I think we should have a month to pay
[11:24] Rose Springvale: Lilith, eveyr other sim in SL seems to be able to handle it
[11:24] Arria Perreault: i agree with Lilith
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Tor… “but”. So, what would be the real consequences of that?
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: we could. but not sure of your current system is capable of that
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well we’re the RA — we *demand* things to happen
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[11:24] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: we do have a month to pay
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: from the 24th to the 28th
[11:24] Rose Springvale: well, that’s just tradition, not law
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: then 14 days later too
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[11:25] Rose Springvale: i think the issue is citizenship revocation, or has been in the past
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: the period is set by the treas
[11:25] Arria Perreault: guys, I am back in some minutes. i ‘ll run home
[11:25] Lilith Ivory: even LL gives me a few weeks to give them my money
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Rose is right…. on my other parcels, if I don’t pay, I get icked out. Immediately. No questions asked. The only nice guy I know out there (besides the CDS!) is Prokofy Neva, who never kicked me out even if I failed to pay for a few days…
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *kicked
[11:25] Pip Torok: one advantage of a tighter timescale is to indicate whether a citizen is still interested
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, pip
[11:25] Rose Springvale: and to keep our cash flow stable
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: well funny
[11:25] Kaseido Quandry: I agree – the places I’ve rented before, it’s 5 days grace, but prepayments are possible
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyone who is really interested will make sure the payment is on time
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: i would be in favor of a tighter schedule
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: thought you guys would not
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[11:26] Rose Springvale: and if they know they are going to be gone, or if there are extenuating circumstances, the Exec can show discretion
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re more evil and greedy than you thought
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:26] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[11:26] Pip Torok: interesting … )
[11:26] Lilith Ivory: well when I had payment issues in the past I informed Sudane about them and everything was fine
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: but the boxes are open until the 24th
[11:26] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:26] Rose Springvale: well, we can close them earlier
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let them close until…. right, Rose
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: it has been tradition that ppl have until then to pay
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what Rose said.
[11:27] Rose Springvale: cant’ we script girl?
[11:27] Rose Springvale: smiels
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you know — this is the first time I heard this!
[11:27] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *thought* they would be closed on the last day lol
[11:27] Rose Springvale: yes Calli?
[11:27] Callipygian Christensen: Can the boxes be set so that people have a month to pay, but that payment is for the following month
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[11:27] Rose Springvale: that
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Calli <3
[11:27] Rose Springvale: s how the rest of sl works
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: they have to close in order to reopen for the next month
[11:27] Callipygian Christensen: that way payment is always current..but people still have the one month time frame to do so
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes!
[11:28] Rose Springvale: (which is why we wanted the hippo system)
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes )
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:28] Callipygian Christensen: also means any reposession is far more timely
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: my goal was to shore up a loophole and not change things too much
[11:28] Rose Springvale: i think we as RA can adopt the law and turn it over to the exec office to figure out implementations
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too.
[11:28] Rose Springvale: RA had approved a change three terms ago i think
[11:28] Pip Torok agrees as well
[11:29] Rose Springvale: looking at the language of the motions…
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: problem with the law as writtin is that secion six was suspended pending establishment of pre-payment
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: effecively this gutted the law
[11:29] Rose Springvale: yes, well, we should have implemented that by now
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[11:30] Rose Springvale: so Tor, if we want to change to a 14 day grace period only, how would you change the language?
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: not to mentionthe fact that mose landowners own more than one parcel
[11:30] Pip Torok: Tor, would the remit of the Fincial Commission include implememntation?
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s currently irrelevan, Tor, since we pay for them all at the same time.
[11:31] Rose Springvale: i thnk that is reserved to the exec Pip, not for the commission.
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean we don’t need to worry about that extra responsibility
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: right, but section six dealt with owners of more than one parcel
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scrap it! lol
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: since most onwnmore than one, nobody could get legally reclaijmed
[11:32] Rose Springvale: i don’t have a problem reclaiming all if one is unpaid
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: um 14 period
[11:32] Rose Springvale: since it was made clear that anyone can abaondon anytime
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither do I — because you actually don’t pay them separately anyway
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a lump sum, always
[11:32] Rose Springvale: what do the rest of you think?
[11:33] Pip Torok: personally I dont have a problem with it
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that Arria dropped…
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: since it’s a lump sum, agreed
[11:33] Rose Springvale: she said she’d be right back Gwyn
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… sorry…. yes, she was near home
[11:33] Rose Springvale: what if it isn’t a lumpsum? if we switch systems, i could be by parcel
[11:33] Tor Karlsvalt: ok we could change section five to read 14 days after the 1st of hte month
[11:34] Lilith Ivory: in this case only the parcel thas isn´t payd for imo
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I would be fine with that Tor)
[11:34] Rose Springvale: make the 1rst of the month the due date? might take a one time adjustment to bring eveyrone to that date
[11:34] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I always thought it would work that way!!
[11:34] Pip Torok: nods
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a complete surprise to me that I actually could pay up to the 24th …. lol
[11:34] Rose Springvale: well, other than the fact that we dont’ actually HAVE a due date, it does
[11:34] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn is silly
[11:35] Rose Springvale puts her tier money back in her pocket for a few more days hehe
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[11:35] Lilith Ivory: I tried sometimes but was not able to let Rudeen starve
[11:35] Rose Springvale: any other issues with this motion?
[11:35] Rose Springvale: lol
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:35] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:36] Rose Springvale: i’d like to add an amendment that says, tier can be prepaid by contacting the treasurer directly
[11:36] Rose Springvale: because that’s how it actually happens
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh ok
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: do you want the amended section five
[11:36] Lilith Ivory: I totally agree
[11:36] Pip Torok: ok by me too
[11:36] Rose Springvale: unless we change systems
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Rose
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the 1st of the month for which tier is due, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale until 30 days after the due date has passed. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. At the end of the month, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[11:37] Rose Springvale: i’d change that to notice after 3 days and return at 14
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So this would mean that 2 weeks after failing to pay, the land would be locked; and at the end of the month, sold.
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:37] Rose Springvale: still looks like 6 weeks to me
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d also prefer Rose’s wording.
[11:37] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine with that
[11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:37] Rose Springvale: and i’d suggest we add “so long as all tier is billed as one payment”
[11:38] Rose Springvale: so that we can reconsider Liliths issue if we change systems
[11:38] Rose Springvale: wb Kas
[11:38] Lilith Ivory: wb Kas
[11:38] Rose Springvale: so that only delinquent land be forfeited, if we separate parcels
[11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ok not sure where all of this is going
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:38] Rose Springvale: maybe we need to take it section by section
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh.
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: can we add the bit on pre payment to section1
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I also don’t see a problem with Rose’s suggestion….
[11:40] Kaseido Quandry: .
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Pre-payments for several months can be specially arranged by contacting the Treasurer.
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah.
[11:40] Rose Springvale: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[11:41] Tor Karlsvalt: looks good and better than i was typing
[11:41] Rose Springvale: And most sims limit prepayments to 12 weeks at the most i think
[11:41] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[11:41] Rose Springvale: because of the SL instability issues
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I remove my suggestion and prefer Rose’s.
[11:41] Rose Springvale: hehe
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, perhaps just adding: Pre-payments can be specially arranged by contacting the Treasurer.
[11:42] Rose Springvale: yes, better
[11:42] Kaseido Quandry: Good!
[11:42] Rose Springvale: she will kill us if eveyrone starts wanting to prepay, with out a new system anyway
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: With no limits — it’ll be up to the Treasurer
[11:42] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:42] Pip Torok would take advantage of that
[11:42] Tor Karlsvalt: yes that is what i was typing
[11:42] Rose Springvale: wb arria
[11:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Landowoners must contact the treadurer directly to arrange pre-payemnt as necessary.
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes I know. Thus bumping the issue to a higher priority
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Tor
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with that!
[11:43] Rose Springvale: okay, thats good for section one.
[11:43] Tor Karlsvalt: sans the spelling mistakes
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Arria!!
[11:43] Rose Springvale: i think 2 and 3 are okay as written
[11:43] Rose Springvale: 4, i have issues with, but that’s the law now isn’t it?
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww how sweet Arria — but you stood up before I could take a picture of you sitting on Pip’s lap!
[11:44] Pip Torok: spoil-sport!
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Could you tell us your issues with 4, Rose?
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m assuming it’s about the citizens’ list?…
[11:45] Rose Springvale: well, its akin to debtors prison lol. Publishing the names of delinquent people
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: Yes, I don’t see any reason for public shaming
[11:46] Rose Springvale: especially since…
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the point was to have a current citizens’ list…
[11:46] Pip Torok: I think the 2as reasonably needed” is the opening for discretion …
[11:46] Rose Springvale: in reality, we get a current list about once per term
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry: Which we need twice a year, and have other legal provisions mandating it already
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m persuaded you’re right
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry:
[11:46] Rose Springvale: no need to make more work for the treasurer or chancellor, which is why i’d propose this change:
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, do you move to delete that sentence?
[11:46] Rose Springvale: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
[11:47] Tor Karlsvalt: ok strike section four
[11:47] Rose Springvale: smiels, lets get the whole thing together then adjust the motion
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And strike 4.
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[11:47] Pip Torok: ok
[11:47] Rose Springvale: do you all agree that 14 days is enough?
[11:47] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:47] Pip Torok: yes
[11:47] Rose Springvale: for reclaim and return, no extra notices too?
[11:47] Rose Springvale: Tor, what do you think? you met with the people
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there will be one notice….
[11:48] Rose Springvale: and the boxes give notice too
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[11:48] Tor Karlsvalt: the commission was more inclide to be hard
[11:48] Rose Springvale: oh good :0
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh goodie!
[11:48] Rose Springvale: so we can be too lol
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we won’t disappoint them
[11:48] Keila Forager: as a citizen, 14 days is more than enough time.
[11:48] Tor Karlsvalt: the consesnsus as always that this is an individual responsibilyt
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my my. So much consensus, I’m feeling queasy
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Tor. And we want responsible citizens!
[11:49] Rose Springvale: yes, and with 7, the chancellor still has discretion to send notices
[11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: i woudl be too
[11:49] Rose Springvale: so… do we want to amend the motion and put it all up here so we can see?
[11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: and Sudane did always mention that we often let deadbeats off the hook
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:49] Rose Springvale: put in only the language we want
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose too
[11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: they have time to sell before tier is paid
[11:49] Rose Springvale: exactly
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who’ll do the copying & pasting?
[11:50] Rose Springvale: so, um, tor, you want to scroll back through and put it all together and propose the amendments as friendlys?
[11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:50] Rose Springvale: just paste on a notecard, then paste in the box too
[11:50] Rose Springvale: the text box
[11:51] Rose Springvale: we will just talk about other things in intermission
[11:51] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[11:51] Rose Springvale: we do have several 7 day voters out there this week
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: looking for those changes
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:52] Rose Springvale: we can help if you want.
[11:52] Rose Springvale: hi Rosie
[11:52] Lilith Ivory: Hi Rosie
[11:52] Pip Torok: hi Rosie!!
[11:52] Rosie Gray smiles: Hi everyone!
[11:52] Arria Perreault: Hi Rosie
[11:53] Keila Forager: Hi Rosie
[11:53] Rose Springvale: we are in intermission while we put pressure on Tor. Key Jeopardy music
[11:53] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[11:53] Pip Torok: lol …
[11:53] Rosie Gray applies some pressure too
[11:53] Lilith Ivory goes for another cup of coffee
[11:53] Rose Springvale: oh, Calli, i should send you the mp3 files of the anthem for Saturday
[11:53] Pip Torok: what a good idea! …
[11:53] Rose Springvale: if its part of the program, out of the loop
[11:54] Callipygian Christensen: oh, yes..please do..I’ll drop you an e-mail address for them
[11:54] Rose Springvale: kk
[11:54] Rose Springvale: Does everyone here have current CDS flag textures?
[11:54] Rose Springvale: seem to still be some old ones flying
[11:54] Pip Torok: not me …
[11:54] Callipygian Christensen: I guess this means I must abandon ‘Send in the Clowns’ as the processional music?
[11:54] Kaseido Quandry cracks up
[11:54] Rosie Gray snickers
[11:54] Rose Springvale: ohhh
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have the anthem, Calli!!
[11:55] Kaseido Quandry: there’s been a flag patch?
[11:55] Rose Springvale: lets have a clown ball
[11:55] Rose Springvale: not since you’ve been here kas
[11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: can we just look at now no 4
[11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. Fourteen days after the 1st of the month for which tier is due, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale the end of the month. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. At the end of the month, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[11:55] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, ok
[11:55] Rose Springvale: i changed that one … hang on
[11:55] Rose Springvale: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
[11:56] Pip Torok: is that right “resale the end of the month”??
[11:56] Rose Springvale: i guess it is 4 now. i think it needs to be set for resale at the end of the 14 days
[11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: i think we wanted to give a person until he end of he month
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d like to have the bit that says “the CDS Executive Branch”…. so we know, without a shadow of doubt, who is in charge of returning objects and flagging the parcels for re-sale
[11:56] Lilith Ivory agrees with Tor
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not even that, Tor
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: we wanted to relaim it and hold it after 14 days
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Notice after 3 days, boom goes your pacel after 14
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: resale at the end of the month
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why wait?
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:57] Rose Springvale: i agree with Gwyn
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: not a problem
[11:57] Rose Springvale: its crazy to leave it empty for 14 more days
[11:57] Pip Torok: ok Tor … what I thought it would be …
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, really… why wait? Is there a good reason?
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose… you read my mind lol
[11:58] Rose Springvale: is the moon still full?!
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: Is used to deal with bank or log in issues
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s a bit stupid to leave the parcel locked for 2 weeks but not be allowed to do anything…
[11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: just being nice. I am totally ok with tougher
[11:58] Keila Forager: Almost still full l:)
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
[11:58] Rose Springvale: Lilith, if one person has those issues
[11:58] Rose Springvale: we all will
[11:58] Rose Springvale: and then there will be an opportunity for the chancellor to react accordingly
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … we can always talk to the Treasurer first
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: yes right
[11:59] Rose Springvale: yes, and if anyone KNOWS of issues, it only takes a message
[11:59] Lilith Ivory is used to that also
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly!
[11:59] Rose Springvale: (that’s rl advice too lol)
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if someone doesn’t even care enough to send a simple IM….
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: yes right
[11:59] Pip Torok: quite gwyn
[11:59] Rose Springvale: or even an email
[12:00] Rose Springvale: if you can’t get online
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still send the automatic notice a few days before the end of the month; one automatic message at the last day I believe; and this law will give a further notice 3 days after the due date, so…
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[12:00] Lilith Ivory alsways has Sudanes mail adress handy
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: just in case hehe
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: email, smoke signals…. anything goes
[12:00] Rose Springvale: we are the Tough RA
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. Three days after the 1st of the month for which tier is due, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. On the 14th of the month, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes haha
[12:00] Lilith Ivory smiles and agress
[12:00] Rose Springvale: hmm
[12:01] Rose Springvale: that’s much more complicated
[12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose’s suggestion was simpler
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: wait wait wait, object forfeiture?
[12:01] Rose Springvale: this requires specific duties by the chancellor, better to make it self operative
[12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Notice after 3 days, object deletion and reclaiming the parcel after 14, to be put up for re-sale automatically.
[12:01] Rose Springvale: objects should be returned
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: YES!
[12:02] Keila Forager: then CDS will return all objects on parcels.
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that happens on the 14th day
[12:02] Pip Torok agrees
[12:02] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:02] Kaseido Quandry: ok, whew
[12:02] Rose Springvale: with no extra notification
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly!
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no need.
[12:02] Rose Springvale: we need to make this easy on the exec office, not more work
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!!!
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles at poor tor who wishes he’d gone to law school now lol
[12:03] Kaseido Quandry wouldn’t wish *that* on anybody
[12:04] Rose Springvale: shhh
[12:04] Rose Springvale: you’ll ruin the mystique!
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:04] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[12:06] Rose Springvale: one question
[12:06] Rosie Gray listens quietly
[12:07] Rose Springvale: boxes open for a week prior to due date and 5 days after? lock always on the 5th?
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hope this is good.
[12:07] Rose Springvale: which gives 12 days to pay for the succeeding month
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the a delinquent landowner by the 3rd of the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th of the month. At the 14th of the month, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be deleted and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-saile.
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: Yep, sounds right
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: no no, not deleted, returned
[12:07] Rose Springvale: Executive officeers
[12:08] Rose Springvale: not treasurer
[12:08] Rose Springvale: and returnd, not deleted, yes
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: ok!
[12:08] Keila Forager: not deleted..returned…
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:08] Pip Torok: drafting amend …. “the a” > “the”
[12:08] Rose Springvale: and is it 3 days, or 5?
[12:08] Kaseido Quandry: I thought 5
[12:09] Pip Torok: “objects will be deleted” …??????
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it’s fine by be if it’s 3 or 5 lol
[12:09] Rose Springvale: then this stays, but not the rest… 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: ok we can change taht
[12:09] Rose Springvale: (strike rental though, just leave as tier)
[12:09] Pip Torok: surely we “returned” …
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: this term “due date” becomes fuzzy
[12:10] Kaseido Quandry: OK, a question about that –
[12:10] Rose Springvale: remember paragraph one
[12:10] Rose Springvale: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:10] Kaseido Quandry: say I don’t pay tier and become a “provisional citizen” – does that trigger a by-election because I no longer meet the qualifications to hold office?
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: i think it could Kass,
[12:11] Rose Springvale: lets make it “run for office”
[12:11] Kaseido Quandry: even if I cure within the period? That seems to be vauge in the language
[12:11] Pip Torok: It would do that, Kas
[12:11] Rose Springvale: so we don’t discriminate or bolox up the RA
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mh. Good question indeed… I think that at the time this piece of law was written, the worry was more about voting rights
[12:11] Rose Springvale: i can see it now, subversive group stymies the RA by not paying tier til the 14th day!
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh!
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry: exactly!
[12:12] Rose Springvale: cured if we change to “run for office” or “stand for election”
[12:12] Pip Torok agrees
[12:13] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Calli, when we finish with this, assuming it passes, please have the SC take a close look to see if we srewed anything up okay?
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen nods
[12:13] Rose Springvale: then we can put the fix in Gwyns laws lol
[12:14] Rose Springvale: Tor, how are you doing> you need help?
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:14] Rose Springvale: ah, good
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
ADD 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: and for four
[12:14] Rose Springvale: no notice by im or notecard
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the a delinquent landowner by the 5th of the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th of the month. At the 14th of the month, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-saile.
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: no notice
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: just make it automatic
[12:15] Pip Torok: Tor … “the a” should be “the”
[12:15] Rose Springvale: we send one when they are delinquent, but not again
[12:16] Rose Springvale: and much as i hate to complicate, the language needs to be “5th day after due date” because we don’t know what date the treasurer will set
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
ADD 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:17] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th of the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th of the month. At the 14th of the month, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-saile.
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: i fixed the spelling of sale
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “by the 5th day after due date”
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh
[12:20] Rose Springvale: within 5 days of the deliquency?
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it would be “At the 14th day after due date” too
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That works for me, Ms Lawyer
[12:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It sounds more ominous… hehe
[12:21] Rose Springvale: copy and paste isnt’ working for me anymore lol
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th day after the due date for the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th day after the due date. At the 14th day after the due date, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-sale.
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: “vote or run for office” ?
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ohok
[12:22] Arria Perreault: both
[12:23] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:23] Pip Torok: yes, both
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: both indeed.
[12:23] Rose Springvale: does anyone know if the notices are sent by the treasurer or chancellor? I have never had the privilege of being late lol
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: but vote where? is that in issue
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: I think it is the treasurer
[12:23] Rose Springvale: in any election Tor
[12:23] Rosie Gray: poor Rose
[12:24] Rose Springvale: cds election
[12:24] Rosie Gray grins
[12:24] Rose Springvale: not the RA
[12:24] Pip Torok: so simply “vote” is sufficient
[12:24] Rose Springvale: smiles at Rosie. I may try just to add to my life experiences!
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS by-election or general election?
[12:24] Rose Springvale: either
[12:24] Rose Springvale: just cds election
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes either
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote in any CDS election or run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen rasies her hand
[12:25] Rose Springvale: yay!
[12:25] Rose Springvale: yes Calli?
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: whew
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: if I am undertanding that wording correctly you are giving specila treamtment to RA members
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well… and SC members…. they vote too
[12:26] Rose Springvale: no, we are simply giving them the same treatment, and not paralyzing the RA
[12:26] Callipygian Christensen: as a citizen I lose my right to vote if I am provisional..but a RA member who beocmes provisional can still vote on legislation
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or commissions…. or New Guild
[12:26] Rose Springvale: if they lose their land, they no longer qualify for RA
[12:26] Rose Springvale: but in the meantime, the represent other citizens who have not lost the right to representation
[12:26] Rose Springvale: they*
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True. So… at best they will only vote at the RA once (since the RA usually just meets every other week)
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooooh
[12:26] Callipygian Christensen: ok, thank you for the clarification
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we could make them wear a title “Delinquent”
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:27] Callipygian Christensen: brand them
[12:27] Rose Springvale points to debtors prison above
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: can you script that Gwyn
[12:27] Rose Springvale: The Scarlet D
[12:27] Pip Torok: on their foreheads??
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes I can, Tor
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it requires a ‘bot but is doable hehe
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, forget it
[12:27] Arria Perreault: we have a tool for that outside the pratorium
[12:27] Rose Springvale: stocks?
[12:27] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can I second the motion as amended?
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt lol
[12:28] Rose Springvale: not quite finished is it?
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh….
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: want me to repost it?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: just the changed wording for 6
[12:28] Rose Springvale: we need to deal with that mulitple parcel thing
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, true
[12:28] Rose Springvale: unless you have it all together !
[12:28] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: well 6 becomes 5
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: i have it as
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: we can delete it really
[12:30] Rose Springvale: we said we were going to add, “so long as all tier is collected together”
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can only delete it if we have a system that allows paying for all parcels automatically at the same time.
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
[12:30] Arria Perreault: it means that someone who doesnt pay can lose all the properties?
[12:30] Rose Springvale: that’s the law now arria
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria. In fact, that’s what happens now, you cannot pay for separate parcels in the CDS sims
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: imo we should say he looses only the parcels he can´t pay for
[12:31] Rose Springvale: i think we need to leave it, because i think its been taken advantage of before,and because anyone can abandon parcels any time
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: at the moment he has to pay for all at the same time
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the point is… if you can’t pay for one parcel any longer, then just sell it…
[12:31] Arria Perreault: it’s technically not possible in fact
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: our system doesn not allow for that
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that might change if we change the system, so I’d leave that point in the law\
[12:31] Arria Perreault: or you need several avatars
[12:32] Arria Perreault:
[12:32] Rose Springvale: or abandon it Gwyn. And if they want to change it, the need but change the system. yes
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so let’s leave it and amend it as Rose suggested.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: to put away this point?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: So long as a citizens tier is paid collectively to the CDS system,
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… let it stay, and just add: “so long as all tier is collected together”
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[12:33] Rose Springvale: smiels
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as all tier is collected together.
[12:33] Arria Perreault: the legislator has to look to the future
[12:33] Rose Springvale: well, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: ok that pharse is at the end of the sentence?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: operationally, no other way but to forfeit all
[12:34] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:34] Rose Springvale: unless we change systems
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: DD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as all tier is collected together.
[12:34] Arria Perreault: we have to think about the principle
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment.
[12:35] Rose Springvale: thats it gwyn
[12:35] Rose Springvale: collected together just makes it mushy
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:35] Arria Perreault: even it’s so technically now, maybe citizen could make a deal with the treasurer and pay her for sell parcels
[12:36] Arria Perreault: less*
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: ok got it
[12:36] Rose Springvale: Arria, anyone at any time can abandon any single parcel that they can’t pay for
[12:36] Rose Springvale: and have the balances adjusted at the tier boxes
[12:36] Arria Perreault: I know
[12:37] Rose Springvale: okay, have it all tor?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: are we ready to see it together?
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[12:37] Rose Springvale: turns jeopardy music back on…
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: hah
[12:37] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contat the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payemnt as necessary.
[12:37] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: 2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
[12:38] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
ADD 3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote in any CDS election or run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:38] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclamation shall be returned, and a notice of the reclamation sent to the landowner.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th day after the due date for the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th day after the due date. At the 14th day after the due date, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-sale.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment.
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: CHANGE 7 to 6: 6. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
Change 8 to 7. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.
Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
[12:39] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: i wll make a nc
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry: In new 4, first line, “treasurer,” not “treasure”
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: got it
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In 2, “land owner” should be “landowner” (for consistency)
[12:40] Arria Perreault: where is point 3?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the addition to 1 is not quite clear
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: got qwyns change
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Rose is right. There are also a few spellling mistakes at the end hehe
[12:41] Rose Springvale: The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: got contact and payment
[12:41] Arria Perreault: when this law will come in force, if we vote it today?
[12:42] Rose Springvale: probably need two months for the adjustments
[12:42] Rose Springvale: but in force immediately i’d say. after 7 day votes
[12:42] Arria Perreault: does have the SC a delay to veto it?
[12:42] Rose Springvale: what do the rest of you say?
[12:42] Rose Springvale: SC has 7 days after passed into law
[12:42] Rose Springvale: and publication by the RA
[12:42] Arria Perreault: so 14 days
[12:43] Rose Springvale: transcript will go up today
[12:43] Rose Springvale: not necessaerly
[12:43] Rose Springvale: 7 votes passes it into law
[12:43] Rose Springvale: could be final in 7 days
[12:43] Arria Perreault: is the transcript the publication?
[12:43] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:44] Rose Springvale: always has been
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
[12:44] Arria Perreault: well .. technically of course. but I am sure you would agree with me that it is not a efficient communication ….
[12:44] Rose Springvale: i would delete “for the future or current month”
[12:44] Arria Perreault: it concern every citizen
[12:44] Kaseido Quandry: yep, it’s just confusing and out of context
[12:45] Rose Springvale: we’ll do group notices too.
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[12:45] Arria Perreault: I would suggest we do some communication
[12:45] Rose Springvale: as i’m sure the chancellor will do
[12:45] Arria Perreault: and also paste the new in the portal (I will do)
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes please!)
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
[12:45] Arria Perreault: new law
[12:45] Rose Springvale: this won’t be a surprise … finance commission has met three times, and we have met twice
[12:46] Arria Perreault: there are many peole who were not at these meeting
[12:46] Rose Springvale: for the archivist,which we will elect next week. but thanks for offering
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: and never read the forum
[12:46] Arria Perreault: the one who come once a month to pay
[12:46] Rose Springvale: it is all on the forum
[12:46] Rose Springvale: okay, are we ready to vote?
[12:46] Pip Torok: yes
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[12:47] Rose Springvale: or actually, need a second if the motion is ready
[12:47] Lilith Ivory nods
[12:47] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: tying to find my new note card
[12:47] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:47] Arria Perreault: do you give us the final version, Tor?
[12:47] Rose Springvale: if you find, paste one more time please
[12:48] Rose Springvale: if paste still works for you
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt gave you Motion to amend NL 9-2 final.
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: been ising a text editor
[12:49] Rose Springvale: this looks right, want me to paste it?
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[12:50] Pip Torok wonders if there’s a “Royal Society for the prevention of cruelty to Text Editors” ……
[12:50] Rose Springvale: motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date within 5 days of the delinquency.
3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:51] Rose Springvale: The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclamation shall be returned, and a notic
[12:51] Rose Springvale: a notice of the reclamation sent to the landowner.
ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
DELETE 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.
ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
7. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged
[12:52] Rose Springvale: to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
8. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.
Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
[12:52] Rose Springvale: now we have a motion and a second. Ready to vote?
[12:52] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: oh no i cant
[12:52] Rose Springvale: its been seconded
[12:53] Rose Springvale: i’ll call the vote then. All in favor of the motion as amended
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt is hoping this ends soon
[12:53] Rose Springvale: please say aye
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:53] Pip Torok: aye
[12:53] Callipygian Christensen /mefrowns
[12:53] Rose Springvale: gwyn, arria?
[12:54] Rose Springvale: smiles…
[12:54] Rose Springvale: hmm
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye aye
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[12:55] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:55] Rose Springvale: chair also vote aye, and motion carries!
[12:55] Rose Springvale: congratulations
[12:55] Arria Perreault: and Pip?
[12:55] Rose Springvale: Thank you for your diligence .. he voted aye
[12:55] Pip Torok: have voted
[12:55] Arria Perreault: he did vote, sorry
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: hooray
[12:56] Rose Springvale: That concludes todays business
[12:56] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:56] Pip Torok:
[12:56] Rose Springvale: so yes Calli?
[12:56] Rose Springvale: we will give you a notecard, don’t worry
[12:56] Callipygian Christensen: I am sorry if I missed some section of text in lag, but hwat happened to that whole paragraph about boxes being opn no later than 5 days before due date, the addition to 1?
[12:57] Rose Springvale: hmm, i think that’s going to have to be administrative implementation…
[12:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. aye and crash…. hehe
[12:57] Rose Springvale: do we have language on when boxes are open?
[12:57] Rose Springvale: or shall we leave to the discretion of the Exec office
[12:58] Rose Springvale: actually
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: it is left to the treasure
[12:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn lost the past few minutes of discussion, sorry
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: in large part
[12:59] Rose Springvale: sent gwyn
[12:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[12:59] Callipygian Christensen: so this was dropped: [12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
[12:59] Callipygian Christensen: that last sentence
[12:59] Rose Springvale: no, that is in, isn’t it?
[12:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s supposed to be in!
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: some of it might have gotten truncated
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: when you posted rose.
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: this is what you voted on:
[13:00] Rose Springvale: yes, its in, at 12:45 on my screen
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: Rose Springvale: motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[13:01] Rose Springvale: hmm
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oopsie
[13:01] Rose Springvale: the notecard is right lol
[13:01] Rose Springvale: maybe my paste got messed up again.
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can definitely re-post what is RIGHT and just ask a vote again to make sure
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: i think there is a character limit in local chat
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Tor, there is)
[13:02] Callipygian Christensen: well I am just concerned that the transcript hold the full law
[13:02] Rose Springvale: did everyone get the notecard?
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: nope
[13:02] Pip Torok: I did
[13:02] Rose Springvale: yes, we’ll add it to the transcript.
[13:02] Keila Forager: There isn’t an all clear on the grid yet, so that may be the problem
[13:02] Rosie Gray: was there a warning earlier?
[13:03] Keila Forager: Yes..
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: is the notecard in the box?
[13:03] Pip Torok: yes Lilith
[13:03] Rose Springvale: not yet, tor was handing out the new one
[13:03] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ool
[13:03] Pip Torok: oh sorry .. I misled you
[13:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:03] Rose Springvale: okay, lets just confirm that we were voting on the language calli cited
[13:03] Rose Springvale: because i can’t paste again lol
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn confirms she was voting on the language Calli cited.
[13:04] Rose Springvale: i’ll put it in the transcript thread, if that’s NOT what you voted on, make sure to note it in 7 day vote
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: we lost kas
[13:04] Rose Springvale: we’ve lost kas, yes
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Ra fighting it´s way through hip deep lag
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: lol
[13:05] Rose Springvale: if you all confirm now, then we can just clear with kas
[13:05] Rose Springvale: and we can ajourn
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:05] Pip Torok: aye
[13:06] Arria Perreault: and the RA members concerns?
[13:06] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[13:06] Rose Springvale: yes, we can do that next arria
[13:06] Arria Perreault: we did not had a published agenda for today
[13:06] Rose Springvale: yes, it was the continuation from last week. and here is kas, so we can revote
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yay
[13:07] Kaseido Quandry: ok, what’d I miss?
[13:07] Rose Springvale: all in favor of the motion as amended with the language calli pasted, say aye please
[13:07] Kaseido Quandry: aye please
[13:07] Arria Perreault: abstains
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:07] Rose Springvale: just confirming the vote
[13:07] Pip Torok: aye
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lol Kas)
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:07] Rose Springvale: arria, you voted in favor before, not confirming the language?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: sorry
[13:07] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:07] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:08] Rose Springvale: i think that is everyone… i also am aye
[13:08] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:08] Rose Springvale: other concerns of RA?
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes — viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3016
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[13:08] Pip Torok: < relief > …..
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia asks us the following:
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This discussion is a continuation of item 1. of the 26 July 2010 SC meeting. The SC has been asked by the LRA to set dates for the bi-election on account of the resignations of StuiChicanne Darkstone and Patroklus Murakami. Please 1. approve dates for the 13th RA bi-election proposed by Claude Desmoulis: Candidate declaration on August 1st, polls open on August 8th, polls close on August 15th (schedule for the by-election); or 2. Propose a different set of dates for approval.
Please weigh in ASAP, and not later than Thursday 29 July.
[13:09] Rose Springvale: Motion to accept the dates?
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Second!
[13:09] Arria Perreault: it’s very short
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (very)
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: Move to accept
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[13:09] Arria Perreault: no
[13:09] Arria Perreault: you are oo quick
[13:09] Arria Perreault: too
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe — do you have any problem with the dates, Arria?
[13:09] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[13:09] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:09] Arria Perreault: the delay is very short
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: Apoligies, but I’m going to have to leave in 5 minutes – I’m late for an RL appointment
[13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we shouldn’t have a crippled RA for long.
[13:10] Arria Perreault: yes, but it’s summertime
[13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are 2 weeks for campaigning
[13:10] Rose Springvale: thanks kas
[13:10] Arria Perreault: yes, but for announcing …
[13:10] Arria Perreault: i’s very short
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: well all the better
[13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what other dates would you suggest then?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: i think a short time period is okay… there are only two positions open
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: get it done
[13:11] Arria Perreault: one more week
[13:11] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Tor
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really wouldn’t like to leave the RA with open seats
[13:11] Rose Springvale: we will be in summer for a while yet. in texas, a long while
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh right
[13:11] Keila Forager: Till December, rose..LOL
[13:11] Arria Perreault: Pat said he stay until we elect someone
[13:11] Pip Torok: agrees with Tor considering its soon to the end of term
[13:11] Rose Springvale: he’s officially resigned
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, I disagree that a week makes a difference.
[13:12] Arria Perreault: My resignation will be effective from the day the polls open for the by-election (which can now be for two seats instead of one).
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who is taing vacations in August will either not be here… or be here
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: can we elect someone while he is still on office?
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, he officially resigned, Tor
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: thought so
[13:13] Kaseido Quandry: .
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either we push the elections to September (using the argument that August is a bad month), or it’s pointless to postpone really
[13:13] Rose Springvale: i think the SC considered the issues and sent us dates that work for them
[13:13] Rose Springvale: so would support the dates they’ve given us
[13:13] Arria Perreault: did Delia sent a notice to appeal candidacies?
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: we had a second.
[13:14] Arria Perreault: an in-word notice?
[13:14] Rose Springvale: no idea what that means
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: lets vote
[13:14] Rose Springvale: we are in discussion unless someone calls the question Tor
[13:14] Kaseido Quandry: call the question
[13:14] Arria Perreault: many of you think forums are not a good commun ication
[13:14] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I want to add a week
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the SC can’t set the dates without us agreeing
[13:14] Rose Springvale: we now have a motion called. All in favor of accepting the SC dates for the by election, say aye
[13:14] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:15] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:15] Rose Springvale: pip?
[13:15] Pip Torok: aye
[13:15] Rose Springvale: chair votes aye and it goes to 7 day.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: any other business?
[13:15] Kaseido Quandry: must go – sorry, all!
[13:15] Rose Springvale: thanks kas!
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: cu Kas
[13:15] Pip Torok: bye kas
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not I need to go too
[13:15] Rosie Gray: bye Kaseido
[13:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye!
[13:15] Callipygian Christensen returns and eeks
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Kas!
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: bye kas
[13:15] Pip Torok: yes Arrias concern …
[13:16] Rose Springvale: we are inquorate now, so unless we want to chat, we are adjourned
[13:16] Rose Springvale: Next meeting will Feature the Election commission
[13:16] Pip Torok: at least we can hear Arrias concern …
[13:16] Callipygian Christensen: In that case, I don’t think Delia was posting that as something to be voted on, although I may be msitaken
[13:16] Rose Springvale: i think she stated it didn’t she?
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: She asked us to approve the dates or suggest different ones.
[13:16] Rose Springvale: smiles. was moved into the meeting though Calli
[13:17] Pip Torok: well imo the timing constrained us to vote
[13:17] Rose Springvale: the question was called. no options
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: a 7 day vote can now mullipfy a campaign already in progress
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: nullify
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[13:17] Arria Perreault: I want to say 2 things
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true.
[13:18] Rose Springvale: then we will need to have someone vote in favor fast
[13:18] Pip Torok: dont forget … the current term has not long to run …
[13:18] Callipygian Christensen: I beleive Delia was posting it for input – but that the SC has the responsibility of the scheduling
[13:18] Rose Springvale: i think the RA has ultimate responsibility … gwyn do you know?
[13:19] Rose Springvale: certainly up to the SC to review, if the motion passes
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: well we only voted than to agree iwth the SC.
[13:19] Rose Springvale: we are officially off the record now, btw
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: that is even better if they have final say
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… on by.-elections, SC sets the dates (I, 2 – Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just voted to agree, yes

Permalink.

RA Meeting 5 August 2010

Transcript, RA meeting August 5, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:42 pm
[2010/08/05 13:09] Rose Springvale: i’ll get the agenda in the box. Hi .. WE are in the citizens concerns time, if anyone would like to speak
[2010/08/05 13:10] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question. do we get an invite to the Al Andalus Independence Day celebrations?
[2010/08/05 13:10] Rose Springvale: Anyone is welcome at al Al Andalus events Pat
[2010/08/05 13:10] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[2010/08/05 13:11] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Cindy Ecksol (17m)
[2010/08/05 13:11] Rose Springvale: Any other questions?
[2010/08/05 13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:11] Cindy Ecksol: hi all. waiting out lag….
[2010/08/05 13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: yes lag is heavy
[2010/08/05 13:12] Rose Springvale: agenda in the box and here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3027
[2010/08/05 13:13] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Kaseido Quandry (18m)
[2010/08/05 13:13] Rose Springvale: If we don’t have other citizens concerns, lets try to muddle through… and forgive me for the pauses, nothing i seem to be able to do about them
[2010/08/05 13:13] Kaseido Quandry: ok, looks like I was the only one to have *no clue* about this meeting!
[2010/08/05 13:13] Rose Springvale: Any additions or corrections to the agenda?
[2010/08/05 13:14] Rose Springvale: sorry Kas… notice has been up all week
[2010/08/05 13:14] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Guillaume Mistwalker (19m)
[2010/08/05 13:14] Kaseido Quandry: ah well!
[2010/08/05 13:15] Rose Springvale: I think there was only one person who exercised 7 day votes, and not changes in the outcome of the legislation passed last meeting.
[2010/08/05 13:15] Rose Springvale: plese jump in if you have comments, i’m going to have trouble recognizing people in 30 sec intervals i’m afraid
[2010/08/05 13:16] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia (19m)
[2010/08/05 13:16] Timo Gufler: have you tried relogin, Rose?
[2010/08/05 13:17] Rose Springvale: Let me remind everyone that all our meetings are transcripted, and if you speak you are consenting to that Next is the RA archivist position (yes Timo, has been going on all week)
[2010/08/05 13:17] Rose Springvale: In the past this has been a volunteer/appointed position
[2010/08/05 13:18] Patroklus Murakami: and often unfilled
[2010/08/05 13:18] Rose Springvale: there have been suggestions that it is an elected one lately , though i’ve found no law supporting that. it is a civiel service position that pays 1000 L per month
[2010/08/05 13:18] Patroklus Murakami: it’s an RA appointment
[2010/08/05 13:18] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Gwyneth Llewelyn (10m)
[2010/08/05 13:19] Pip Torok: hi gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:19] Timo Gufler: hi Gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:19] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:19] Rose Springvale: We are fortunate to have two qualified indivuals who wish to serve. Cindy Ecksol, who volunteered at the beginning of the term, and Arria Perreault
[2010/08/05 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: an embarrassment of riches
[2010/08/05 13:20] Cindy Ecksol: why thank you Pat!
[2010/08/05 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: yw
[2010/08/05 13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry
[2010/08/05 13:21] Rose Springvale: As an RA appointment, I am concerned about spreading responsibilities. Arria currently chairs the citizenship commission, the roman sim cultural commission along with her personal ventures. Cindy has no other CDS jobs this term, correct?
[2010/08/05 13:21] Timo Gufler: np
[2010/08/05 13:21] Cindy Ecksol: correct
[2010/08/05 13:21] Rose Springvale: does the RA wish to vote on this? or have discussions?
[2010/08/05 13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and best to keep things in peoples hands you can control rose
[2010/08/05 13:22] Patroklus Murakami: why don’t we accept them both as a jobshare?
[2010/08/05 13:22] Patroklus Murakami: they can divide the work between themselves as appropriate
[2010/08/05 13:22] Rose Springvale: not sure that is acceptable to them Pat, and wouldn’t want to assume
[2010/08/05 13:22] Pip Torok: if both are willing!
[2010/08/05 13:22] Patroklus Murakami: “many hands make light work” and all that
[2010/08/05 13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: arria knows what she can do
[2010/08/05 13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: shes not here either so ..
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: no thank you, pat. maintenance of a particular page is a one-person job. otherwise you end up with one writing over what the other has done.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Pip Torok: by all means ask, pat
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: I’m not interested in that kind of thing…
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: either I’m going to do it….or not.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: right cindy
[2010/08/05 13:23] Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s maintenance of more than just one page!
[2010/08/05 13:23] Rose Springvale: i actually think that is the point of spreading out the jobs
[2010/08/05 13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wonder if we couldn’t get someone to act as SC Archivist too hehe
[2010/08/05 13:23] Patroklus Murakami: the job could be divided up
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: my point is that when more than one person is maintaing the same thing, it’s not a good thing
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: not interested.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: time to fish or cut bait.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Rose Springvale: i don’t think we should ask that of them.
[2010/08/05 13:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: perhas it would have been more informative to metanomics that they watch you in action rose, rather than hear your spin
[2010/08/05 13:23] Pip Torok /me is inclined to agree
[2010/08/05 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t have time to negotiate.
[2010/08/05 13:24] Patroklus Murakami: but, if you guys don’t want arria to be RA archivist. okay
[2010/08/05 13:24] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Fern Leissa (19m)
[2010/08/05 13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In spite of everything, having been often in a similar situation, I would also not be very comfortable with that idea.
[2010/08/05 13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, either we have ONE persons responsible for the archives, or zero. Two, three, more … well, it’s a mess
[2010/08/05 13:24] Pip Torok /me would like to ask each one question
[2010/08/05 13:24] Rose Springvale: i think so too Gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:24] Patroklus Murakami: seems odd to *turn away* volunteers is all
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, pat!
[2010/08/05 13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and when shes not here!!
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol /me me knows from experiencve that this is the case
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s incredible, so many years without a single volunteer… and now we have two
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems to be a waste lol
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol: not a waste.
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol: Arria has plenty to do.
[2010/08/05 13:25] Lilith Ivory: Arria volunteers a lot already
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol: because of the controversy on the Chancellorship I ddn’t volunteer for a comission
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
[2010/08/05 13:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but its very unfair to discuss this without her here..
[2010/08/05 13:26] Cindy Ecksol: so I’ve got lots of free capacity.
[2010/08/05 13:26] Pip Torok /me requests that the RA asks questions of each candidate
[2010/08/05 13:26] Cindy Ecksol /me is happy to answer any question from Pip
[2010/08/05 13:26] Rose Springvale: sigh. this isn’t a policy positon, its administrative.
[2010/08/05 13:26] Pip Torok: right (for you and Arria) what would be your priorioty in carrying out your task?
[2010/08/05 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: Timliness.
[2010/08/05 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: and completeness would be second
[2010/08/05 13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (note: a job description of the RA Archivist is here: http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/10 … 519/1.html )
[2010/08/05 13:27] Pip Torok: (I was thinking of content … ie which portion …
[2010/08/05 13:28] Cindy Ecksol: yes, what Gwyn said
[2010/08/05 13:28] Pip Torok: thank you, Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:28] Cindy Ecksol: that’s the “portion”
[2010/08/05 13:28] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/08/05 13:28] Cindy Ecksol: I’m not volunteering to maintain the entire portal, Pip
[2010/08/05 13:28] Rose Springvale: other questions, discussion?
[2010/08/05 13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless the RA wants to change teh job description, that’s what the RA Archivist is *expected* to do.
[2010/08/05 13:28] Pip Torok: I understand
[2010/08/05 13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might vote to change the numbering of the laws
[2010/08/05 13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/08/05 13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose few know why they’re called “NL”
[2010/08/05 13:29] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/08/05 13:29] Rose Springvale: why are they?
[2010/08/05 13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neufreistadt Law.
[2010/08/05 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: so actually we should say “CDSL” or somesuch.
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: I never did figure out why my township here in RL uses “B”
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I submit a motion to to adopt CDSL
[2010/08/05 13:30] Tor Karlsvalt /me relieved I had that figured out
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: second
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn /me smiles @ Tor
[2010/08/05 13:30] Rose Springvale: smiles. moved and seconded to change the numbering to CDSL… discussion?
[2010/08/05 13:30] Patroklus Murakami: aww, let’s keep ‘NL’ for history’s sake
[2010/08/05 13:30] Pip Torok: imho it wd be cumbersome
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pat
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[2010/08/05 13:30] Rose Springvale: but its not accurate!
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL !
[2010/08/05 13:30] Kaseido Quandry: lol, the mark of a true conservative!
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, it’s not!
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: no more cumbersome than NL Pip
[2010/08/05 13:30] Patroklus Murakami: Neualtenburg Law
[2010/08/05 13:31] Patroklus Murakami: nothing wrong with that kas
[2010/08/05 13:31] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/08/05 13:31] Kaseido Quandry /me laughs
[2010/08/05 13:31] Pip Torok: 4-letters instead of 2?? !! QED!
[2010/08/05 13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we could rename the “N” to something different… “Needless Law”
[2010/08/05 13:31] Rose Springvale: can we vote on this? i’m missing a great day outside lol
[2010/08/05 13:31] Cindy Ecksol: oh, Pip, I think we can afford the bits…..
[2010/08/05 13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aw
[2010/08/05 13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It could also be CL…
[2010/08/05 13:31] Rose Springvale: C would work
[2010/08/05 13:31] Pip Torok: true
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: confederation law
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: how about XL?
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: friendly amendment?
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: your motion
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: c’mon guys, this is silly….
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: let’s vote on CDSL
[2010/08/05 13:32] Pip Torok: agrees
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No amendment, vote against it if you don’t like CDSL
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: move to close discussion
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: all in favor of CSDL, say aye
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: CDSL lol
[2010/08/05 13:33] Pip Torok: nay
[2010/08/05 13:33] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[2010/08/05 13:33] Kaseido Quandry: is there a “whatever” voting option?
[2010/08/05 13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn /me *slaps her forehead* sorry
[2010/08/05 13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “abstain”, Kas!
[2010/08/05 13:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[2010/08/05 13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2010/08/05 13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye for consistency
[2010/08/05 13:33] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/08/05 13:33] Kaseido Quandry: oh, aye
[2010/08/05 13:34] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Timo Gufler (10m)
[2010/08/05 13:34] Tor Karlsvalt /me relieved that crisis is over
[2010/08/05 13:34] Pip Torok: wb Timo
[2010/08/05 13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we should vote on the candidates…
[2010/08/05 13:34] Timo Gufler: thanks, sorry for the crash…
[2010/08/05 13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Timo
[2010/08/05 13:35] Timo Gufler:
[2010/08/05 13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Timo
[2010/08/05 13:35] Pip Torok: did Timo vote?
[2010/08/05 13:35] Timo Gufler: sorry, I missed discussion for some minutes…
[2010/08/05 13:35] Timo Gufler: because the crash was “slow”…
[2010/08/05 13:36] Cindy Ecksol: asking for a vote to approve changing of NL to CDSL for the “prefix” to RA legislation
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: whoops…lost rose
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy, this is not going to be pretty today
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quick, let’s vote on a replacement LRA!
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: haaha
[13:36] Timo Gufler: lol
[13:36] Pip Torok:
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:37] Cindy Ecksol: Timo, I don’t know where you cut out, but the upshot is that “NL” stands for Neualtenburg Law and Gwyn proposed to change it to CDSL
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Gwyn I think you are crashing too
[13:37] Cindy Ecksol: vote “aye” if you’re in favor.
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn crosses herfingers
[13:37] Timo Gufler: ok, I will vote when the LRA is back
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Okay.
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: tick tock
[13:37] Patroklus Murakami: vote ‘nay’. this is one of gwyn’s terrible ideas
[13:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol pat
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[13:38] Timo Gufler: sigh, I missed the discussion…
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: anyone know some jokes
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it was fun
[13:38] Cindy Ecksol: let’s see…..
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: WB Rose
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: wb Rose
[13:39] Pip Torok: wb rose
[13:39] Rose Springvale: sorry all
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Rose
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Rose, in your absence, we have voted on a replacement LRA
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: a couple of notes walked into a bar…..
[13:39] Pip Torok: timo needs to add his vote, Rose
[13:39] Rose Springvale: ah, good, i’ll go to the beach
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:39] Rose Springvale: someone want to copy for me?
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn thought there were only deserts in Texas!
[13:39] Timo Gufler: I abstain from the voting about the law
[13:39] Guillaume Mistwalker wonders who will be next in the game of SL Crash-duck-duck-goose!
[13:39] Rose Springvale: okay, then we were at 5-2- 1 i think
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: nothing new rose, we waitd for you.
[13:40] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: didn’t do anyting Rose
[13:40] Rose Springvale: so are we ready to vote on archivist?
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: ah….thought you saw that.
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: just needed Timo’s vote
[13:40] Rose Springvale: the legal designations pass, subject to 7 day vote
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: five aye, three nay, one abstain
[13:40] Rose Springvale: kk
[13:40] Pip Torok: Timo, its about the _numbering_ of the laws, not the laws themselves
[13:41] Rose Springvale: yes, simply designation.
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s vote on the archivist quickly before I get more ideas…
[13:41] Timo Gufler: aye then
[13:41] Rose Springvale: thanks timo
[13:41] Rose Springvale: okay, lets just vote by name, Cindy or Arria
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: Cindy
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: abstain (or Arria will kick me)
[13:42] Pip Torok: Arria
[13:42] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Aria
[13:42] Patroklus Murakami: arria. (though I’m sure both would do an excellent job)
[13:42] Timo Gufler: Arria
[13:42] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy
[13:42] Cindy Ecksol: Cindy
[13:43] Rose Springvale: is that everyone?
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[13:43] Rose Springvale: in the spirit of accepting volunteers, i vote Cindy
[13:44] Rose Springvale: So i think we are 5-4-1 and need one 7 day vote?
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[13:44] Rose Springvale: 2 7 day votes
[13:44] Rose Springvale: solomon and arria
[13:44] Patroklus Murakami: all 7 day votes surely?
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I think that what Rose means is that we don’t get a *decision*
[13:45] Rose Springvale: okay. lets move on. thank you Cindy for your patience, and to both of you for volunteering
[13:45] Rose Springvale: Commisions, (i think this will go faster than listed)
[13:45] Rose Springvale: Commerce, Lilith?
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: we are finished collecting ideas
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: and I will schedule another meeting to firgure out how we can get things get done in late august
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: after traveling season is over
[13:46] Rose Springvale: thank you Lilith.
[13:47] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:47] Rose Springvale: Arria had Citizenship and posted this on the forum: I cannot make a report about my commission. I can nevertheless inform the RA that I have scheduled a meeting the Tuesday 19 August.
[13:47] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[13:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nuf of that
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: I can be brief
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: During the past week the Treasure drafted new procedures in accordance with the new tier collection law. We are awaiting the official posting of the new regulations. However I offer the following summary.
The Due Date for tier payments will be set as the 7th of the month.
Tier boxes will be open from the 28th through the 13th.
On the 13th of the month, parcels will be re-possessed in guarantee of payment.
On the 21st of the month, parcels sill in delinquency will be set for sale and objects on the parcel will be returned.
These regulations will take effect on September 1, 2010
I am sure we all look forward to the Treasure’s official posting and thank her for her quick response to the new law. Her regulations capture the intent and spirt of the law.
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: lots of lag
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I will also plan future meetings.
[13:50] Patroklus Murakami: are there plans for communicating this new system to our citizens? i’d hate for ppl to lose their land because we did not warn them sufficiently!
[13:50] Rose Springvale: Sudane is working with the Chancellor
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I believe Arria and Jamie have made motions for some changes to the law
[13:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: which laws does this re vise
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Pat
[13:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: which laws will you delete to do ths
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has the plan drafed
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ready to go
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure she will be publishing it soon.
[13:51] Rose Springvale: Thank you Tor, and thanks for opening back up for more issues.
[13:51] Rose Springvale: The law was NL-9 i think?
[13:51] Rose Springvale: no
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 9-2
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Um I know you suggestedit be renumbered
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Probably Sudane would have preferred that as well
[13:52] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn. It just gets confusing when it all relates back, but we’ll leave that up to the RA archivist to sort
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew !
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I note that her draft left the number blank
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[13:52] Rose Springvale: Anything else Tor?
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: um, Jamie has proposed some legislation
[13:53] Rose Springvale: yes, though lets put that on the agenda in a future meeting
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: the tread is
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2990&p=16212#p16212
[13:54] Rose Springvale: that doesn’t come from the commission so we need to address it directly in RA
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie’s proposed bill
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i will probably cover this in a future meeting of the commission
[13:54] Patroklus Murakami: hopefully it won’t be needed as the information will be disclosed in any case
[13:54] Rose Springvale: and it will be on the agenda in the next two meetings, subject to availability
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:55] Rose Springvale: I urge all the RA members to read the thread, so we can discuss it.
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s it then
[13:55] Pip Torok: so noted
[13:55] Rose Springvale: We’ll have the chancellors report in one of those meetings as well, so perhaps that will be helpful
[13:55] Rose Springvale: Thank you Tor
[13:55] Rose Springvale: Kas? how’s the communications commission doing?
[13:55] Kaseido Quandry: It’s been my intention to hold another round of meetings –
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: to explain/discuss the new notice provisions and other elements of the Public Information Act
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: however, that presumes its implementatin
[13:56] Cindy Ecksol:
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: As most of you know, The Chancellor and PIO have refused to meet, and have not implemented the Act.
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn gave you Final Recommendations for the Election Commission.
[13:57] Patroklus Murakami: here we go…
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[13:57] Kaseido Quandry: This smells to me like the beginnings of a constititional problem, and I’d like to ask the RA’s guidance on how to collectively proceed, if/when it’s appropriate to have that discussion
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, have they given you any reason for not meeting?
[13:58] Cindy Ecksol: or for not implementing?
[13:58] Patroklus Murakami: why have the chancellor and PIO ‘refused to meet’? what evidence do you have for this claim?
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve received no direct or indirect response from either, either to the forum thread or to my inworld notecard request
[13:58] Rose Springvale: sighs.
[13:58] Rose Springvale: our group roles haven’t been updated in the CDS group either.
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, the evidence speaks for itself.
[13:58] Rose Springvale: Pat do you have suggestions ?
[13:59] Kaseido Quandry: As to why, I honestly have no idea.
[13:59] Patroklus Murakami: that is not evidence. there could be other reasons why you have not had a response
[13:59] Kaseido Quandry: There is no meeting and no implementation. I have not addressed motive at any time.
[13:59] Rose Springvale shakes heads. lets focus on solutions please
[13:59] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could invite them to the next RA meeting to find out what the problem is? < - solution [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: Well, seems like the next step is to ask the to report to the RA on implementation [14:00] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, Pat. [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: Chancellor's update to RA would be a good opportunity for that. [14:00] Rose Springvale: okay. We are due for the Chancellor report as well [14:00] Lilith Ivory: sounds like an idea Pat [14:00] Rose Springvale: so we'll ask for that at the next meeting. Thanks. [14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ideally it shoiuld be cleared up before the election [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: either there's an answer...or there are excuses. [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: we'll see! [14:01] Rose Springvale: I'll send a note to the Chancellor, to accomodate her schedule. [14:01] Rose Springvale: Anything else Kaseido? [14:01] Kaseido Quandry: However, I would like to schedule a public meeting with the eventual Archivist, to explain what they do and how their work fits into overall government communications - I think that'd be informative and constructive [14:01] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps the chancellor is exercising her veto powers? [14:02] Rose Springvale: Needs to tell us if so i think. [14:02] Patroklus Murakami: indeed rose [14:02] Patroklus Murakami: just speculating [14:02] Rose Springvale: sounds like a good idea, kas, to figure out who does what in communications [14:02] Rose Springvale: Gwyn are you back? [14:03] Rose Springvale: She's stepped away for a moment [14:03] Kaseido Quandry: I'll work to schedule that as soon as we have an Archivist [14:03] Rose Springvale: great, thank you Kas [14:03] Rose Springvale: Gwyn has placed the Electoral commission report in the box, you can all get a copy of it [14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm back, sorry! [14:04] Rose Springvale: okay floor is yours [14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks [14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll really spare this assembly the copying and pasting of all the text [14:04] Rose Springvale: can everyone get the notecard this week? [14:04] Lilith Ivory nods [14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if you can't: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3026 [14:04] Patroklus Murakami: yes [14:05] Rose Springvale: perfect, thanks gwyn [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now sadly we did a big mistake lol [14:05] Rose Springvale: smiles [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We all assumed it was SIMPLE to fill in the dates for election But only when we closed the meeting, [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: assuming that I'd figure out the calculations, [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I found out that they are anything but obvious hehe [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that's the homework for the RA today [14:06] Rose Springvale: explain please [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, just an overview... you can read the text on your own better (and faster) than I can type... [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First, on the explanation of the voting system, [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we suggested a "voter's guide" like we had before, but explaining how STV works in terms of "tactical voting" [14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That means having a volunteer to explain a few scenarios
[14:07] Pip Torok: we cd lift one direct from wiki
[14:07] Patroklus Murakami: STVs easy – vote your preferences
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: lol, no
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good idea. Pip!
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No…. it’s not that easy, Pat…
[14:08] Patroklus Murakami: translating votes into seats is difficult but we have computers to do that!
[14:08] Kaseido Quandry: Um, the Wikipedia article is brilliant, but ferociously complicated, and covers more and different scenarios from ours
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I think we had in mind is something like this….
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine we have candidateds named a through F
[14:09] Pip Torok denies that its ferociously complicated
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone wants to have A and B in, and C and D out.
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is the best ranking to achieve that?
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That kind of thing.
[14:09] Pip Torok agrees
[14:09] Patroklus Murakami: vote A, B. don’t transfer to C and D. easy
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should you rank A, B, E, F, C, D?
[14:09] Rose Springvale: what is the best ranking? (hates math)
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just vote A, B?
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or A, B, E, F? That’s the kind of thing
[14:09] Patroklus Murakami: but i get your point gwyn. that would not be too difficult to write
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay do I hear a volunteer?
[14:10] Patroklus Murakami: no. sorry
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: dang! lol
[14:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I understood that STV was difficult to influence like that
[14:10] Tor Karlsvalt: That is what i read in the wiki anyway
[14:11] Rose Springvale: the idea of “tactical” voting in a community like ours gives me hives
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: Yes, it is Tor
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the scenario I gave is a typical one. A citizen knows what they want to have. How should they rank the candidates so that they get the desired result?
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: it’s just very difficult to vote “tactically”
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: beyond simple ranking of your preferred candidates.
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e,g, they want A, B in; C, D out; E, F, irrelevant)
[14:11] Patroklus Murakami: they should rank who they want and leave out candidates they don’t like. STV is really easy for voters to use
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: But in a small group perhaps not
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: donno
[14:12] Pip Torok: i suggest that each presents a staright ranking of preferred candidates, leaving none out
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: so they would vote A, B, nothing else.
[14:12] Patroklus Murakami: and the results respect their choices pretty accurately
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. See, I got that wrong on the last elections!
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t know we could leave candidates out.
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I ranked all
[14:12] Rose Springvale: smiles at gwyn
[14:12] Kaseido Quandry: See, we’re guessing blindly!
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for the vote Gwyn
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn knows she’s silly
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:12] Patroklus Murakami: i should have spoken to you beforehand gwynnie
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should have read the wiki page before… or rather… *understood* it
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: ranked all out of politeness
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: lol
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes true, Pat
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: actually ranking more than 4 is pretty irrelevant.
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, Cindy, that’s another important thinG!
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: I read it 3 times, and I *know* I don’t understand it
[14:13] Rose Springvale: so what i’m hearing is a need for voter information and that’s the proposal, correct?
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear Kas
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The recommendationis really to get someone who *does* understand STV to make a short “guide” to explain it in plain English.
[14:13] Rose Springvale: Anyone want to volunteer?
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the proposal, yes.
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Jon might
[14:14] Patroklus Murakami: an FAQ would be good
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: But Gwyn, if you want to get VERY sophisticated, to help make sure C and D don’t make it, you’d rank A, B, E, F…..and C and D would lonly get votes if it went past 4 rounds
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we have a volunteer in this room, I’d move to support him/her immediately If not, I suggest that the RA approves a simple motion to look for a volunteer on the forums, in-world, etc
[14:14] Rose Springvale: okay, do you want us to vote on this proposal gwyn, then we can go to the community for volunteers?
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Rose!
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: essentially by ranking honestly, you influence the probability of each candidate being elected.
[14:14] Rose Springvale: So, lets have the motion
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees Cindy as an excellent candidate to write that FAQ!
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: ok, see me later….it’s not htat complicated.
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move to let the RA search a volunteer to write a short FAQ on STV.
[14:15] Patroklus Murakami: second
[14:15] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt proud that he does indeed no when to shut up
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: discussion?
[14:15] Rose Springvale: any discussion on this?
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (announcing the search on official channels)
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, why doesn’t someone on your election commission do this?
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because uh
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: seems like a natural outgrowth….
[14:15] Rose Springvale: they have a LOT to do lol
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we were not the brightest kids in the block
[14:16] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:16] Rose Springvale: and we want to bring in more volunteers!
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and humbly admit we don’t understnd it so well!
[14:16] Cindy Ecksol: so we should approve your bill…but someone else needs to explain it?????
[14:16] Cindy Ecksol: wow, that is SCARY!!!!
[14:16] Rose Springvale: I’ll help whoever write it
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn is always fine in admitting ignorance and getting experts do the work better
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe jon could present the calculations
[14:16] Kaseido Quandry: Hence the Commission mandate to explore alternative voting systems!
[14:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, kas, I forgot that last paragraph.
[14:16] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on the motion?
[14:17] Patroklus Murakami: nah
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[14:17] Rose Springvale: here is the motion then: Move to let the RA search a volunteer to write a short FAQ on STV.
[14:17] Rose Springvale: All in favor?
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:17] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:17] Pip Torok: aye
[14:17] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:17] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:18] Cindy Ecksol: unnecessary I think, but aye
[14:18] Rose Springvale: thank you . Motion carries
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn still looks at Cindy to volunteer hehe
[14:18] Rose Springvale: one down gwyn
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh!
[14:18] Cindy Ecksol looks over her shoulder to see who Gwyn is looking at
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kas mentioned (very correctly) that the Election Commission will continue to meet and look at alternatives, although I guess we ought to wait for the FAQ first.
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next point?
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Campaigning.
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This one was made easy thanks to the SC,
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who did a recent ruling making clear that they don’t see it as constitutional to have the SC “run the elections”
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not copying & pasting what’s in the notecard. This is a new bill, Campaigning Act
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully it clarifies what was confiusing last elections
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ll see that some organising roles are now assigned to the Execm
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC just “Oversees”
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e.g. gets the complains )
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, we can discuss…
[14:21] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn
[14:21] Rose Springvale: Anyone have questions?
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (perhaps a small note… these rules will also be used for the Chancellor election IF that bill passes…. to be discussed later)
[14:22] Rose Springvale: smiles.
[14:22] Patroklus Murakami: what does “no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed.” mean?
[14:23] Patroklus Murakami: are we talking about the CDS group notices? or any notices?
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One and only one group notice.
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Group notices.
[14:23] Rose Springvale: on the CDS group, correct?
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[14:23] Patroklus Murakami: what about faction notices?
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or any official CDS group
[14:23] Rose Springvale: presuming the Communications Bill is implemented
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, these are not legislated, since factions are not recognised by the Government as being anythig special
[14:23] Rose Springvale: we don’t really have jurisdiction on those
[14:23] Lilith Ivory wouldn´t be happy to get spammed with private notes also
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private organisations
[14:24] Patroklus Murakami: well, they’re not entirley private. they’re in the constitution!
[14:24] Patroklus Murakami: could we make it clear it’s CDS group notices for the avoidance of doubt?
[14:24] Patroklus Murakami: Candidates would be allowed ONE official CDS group notice,
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that amendment.
[14:25] Rose Springvale: and other govenmental groups.. we dont need them on Colonia nova group, Land Verwhatever etc
[14:25] Rose Springvale: ?
[14:25] Lilith Ivory nods
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… Pat is right… what this bill intends is to legislate on the official CDS channels,
[14:25] Tor Karlsvalt: actualy that ould open it to other group nocieces
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whatever they are
[14:25] Rose Springvale: not even sure those are open to notices.
[14:26] Tor Karlsvalt: only one CDS notice and one of other groups too
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is up to the Comms Commission to decide which ones of those groups are official or not.
[14:26] Rose Springvale: okay, good. So we’ll amend to say “CDS Group Notice”?
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would suggest: “Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice on the official CDS group(s)”. What is an official CDS group or not is TBD, outside this bill.
[14:27] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[14:27] Kaseido Quandry: that works
[14:27] Pip Torok supports the suggestion
[14:28] Rose Springvale: Do we need the event language as part of this law?
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, note that we have been mean and allowed candidates to throw parties and other events that can be SPONSORED by them, and these will be announced, but the announcement cannot be turned into a political message.
[14:28] Lilith Ivory giggles
[14:28] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was meant as a clarification, but if it’s clear what it means, we can strike it from the bill.
[14:28] Cindy Ecksol: sounds like of like some of the rules we have in the US for campaign financing….
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That might have been the intention, Cindy
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn
[14:29] Cindy Ecksol: yikes, not a GOOD thing!
[14:29] Patroklus Murakami: so, how about faction ‘meet our candidates’ meetings? would they be allowed?
[14:29] Cindy Ecksol: those rules are insane….
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Allowed and encouraged, Pat
[14:29] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t think we need to be specifying anything about parties or “meet the candidate” faction events
[14:29] Patroklus Murakami: and could the faction send a cds group notice to advertise them?
[14:29] Rose Springvale: “Candidates may sponsor general information events which may be announced on official channels as events only.”
[14:29] Kaseido Quandry: yes, absolutely
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ONE announcement, sure
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that, Rose!
[14:30] Patroklus Murakami: just checking
[14:30] Rose Springvale: Candidates or Factions or other groups may sponsor general information events ….
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better still
[14:30] Cindy Ecksol: …:and announce them via….?
[14:30] Kaseido Quandry: any way they want.
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: CDS Group Notice?
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: including “any official CDS channels for communication.”
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[14:31] Rose Springvale: which may be announced on official channels as events only
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: CDS GROUP IM?
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like any event.
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[14:31] Kaseido Quandry: the *only* limit is on candidate campaign access to the CDS group inworld
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: hard to enforce “no politics” Rose.
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… whatever is defined as an official CDS communication channel, yes
[14:31] Rose Springvale: well, if it says “meet Rose springvale, party at 7”
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: SC is going to be deluged with requests for review of “violations” to the “one announceent” rule
[14:31] Rose Springvale: its’ okay
[14:31] Rose Springvale: if it says
[14:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Can they be posted to the calendar?
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Kas says. Any others, f they become official CDS events, HAVE to go through the Exec
[14:31] Rose Springvale: Meet Rose Springvale, best and brightest candidate for the RA, not so
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: and what if my friend announces a “political party” for ME in CDS channels?
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: is that MY violations???
[14:32] Rose Springvale: theirs
[14:32] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theirs
[14:32] Rose Springvale: law applies to everyone
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: why theirs? that was THEIR first notice!!
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But also the Exec’s!
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: but second notice about ME!
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, Cindy
[14:32] Rose Springvale: the notice can only be about the event
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If that note goes through the official CDS channels,
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the Exec that posts it,
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not “your friend”
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: so how would you word the notice?
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the Exec is mandated to follow this law.
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: “Hey, I’m having a party”?
[14:33] Rose Springvale: hmm, not sure that works with the comm act, does it Kas?
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Join my party and meet my friend Cindy!”
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: couldn’t say much beyond that….and everyone would know the point that Cindy is a candidate…
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: so what’s the point of restricting?
[14:33] Kaseido Quandry: hmmm…
[14:33] Tor Karlsvalt: can you post a sign about the event?
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: good question, Tor
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Restricting the *candidates* ability to post. There is nothing wrong with having the *Exec* posting.
[14:34] Rose Springvale: to eliminate the “i’m the best and brightest and the rest are controlling freaks” messages
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: what if the exec is also a candidate???
[14:34] Kaseido Quandry: OMG! you can do anything you want *except* use the government faclitlies more than once
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not to eliminate — to restrict it to just ONE message
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: what if the exec is from an opposing faction?
[14:34] Kaseido Quandry: this is not complicated!
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, it IS complicated.
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Exec has to abide by the rules too
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: there are too many ways to get around the INTENT
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, that’s why we have the SC to figure out intent
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: funny, gwyn, VERY funny!
[14:35] Lilith Ivory: didn´t your bill say you´re allowed to post One by your own?
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have to earn their bread & butter too
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Lilith
[14:35] Cindy Ecksol: personally I think it’s better that we don’t restrict postings at all.
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one without “interference”
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: ok so we are only limiting official communication notices
[14:35] Rose Springvale: that doesn’t answer the concern about spam Cindy
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Tor
[14:35] Cindy Ecksol: let’s deal with a two-week “silly season” and only chase after people who grossly abuse
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn points at what Rose just said.
[14:35] Cindy Ecksol: anyone who doesn’t like it can simply turn off notices
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: you can have signs or private group notices
[14:36] Kaseido Quandry: oh, “one” is vague, and “grossly abuse” isn’t?
[14:36] Rose Springvale: we lose group members .. then they don’t get messages we WANT them to get
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s in the Constitution, the no spam provision; this act just reinforcs it: “Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit, trying to keep a balance between limiting spam and allowing free access of candidates to do their campaigning”
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: no, they’re BOTH vague….that’s my point.
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: let any candidate announce as many times as they need to.
[14:36] Rose Springvale: like.. tier is no longer going to have a three month grace period.
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: if they’re annoying, people won’t vote for them.
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (personally I was for NO announcements at all, but this was felt to be unfair )
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: and they’ll just turn off notices.
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … thus missing all the notices from the legitimate candidates that are playing fair
[14:37] Rose Springvale: i’m opposed to that, becasue i don’t want them to turn off notices
[14:37] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t understand what’s so difficult for people about using the “delete” button during that two week campaign period
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. This falls neatly into the last point, ethics
[14:37] Rose Springvale: okay, anything else on this issue?
[14:37] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps this proposal needs more thought before we vote on it?
[14:37] Rose Springvale: others who’ve not spoken?
[14:37] Cindy Ecksol: how about allowing ONE notice….but as many group IM’s as a candidate cares to do?
[14:38] Cindy Ecksol: to the “official groups” that is
[14:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would still be spam…
[14:38] Rose Springvale: this has come from the commission, we can amend it, but this is the recommended language
[14:38] Patroklus Murakami: we could table it for discussion on the forums and then the next RA..
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has been on the forums for eons, Pat
[14:38] Rose Springvale: i think we should respect the work and vote on this part. Then the current candidates can use it
[14:38] Rose Springvale: or not
[14:38] Patroklus Murakami: it clearly has not had sufficient attention to bring out the issues gwyn
[14:38] Rose Springvale: i disagree pat
[14:39] Patroklus Murakami: that’s why we are debating detail here
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also disagree, but I’m biased lol
[14:39] Rose Springvale: how many meetings have you held Gwyn?
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: this is the first RA discussion.
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: needs another one.
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: three
[14:39] Rose Springvale: thanks
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: I move we table until next meeting
[14:39] Patroklus Murakami: second
[14:39] Kaseido Quandry: .
[14:39] Rose Springvale: all in favor of tabling this?
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nay
[14:39] Rose Springvale: oh wait
[14:39] Pip Torok: aye
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: nay
[14:39] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[14:39] Rose Springvale: do we need discussion?
[14:39] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: non-debatable rose
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the tabling? I don’t think so
[14:39] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:39] Rose Springvale: k,
[14:39] Lilith Ivory: nay
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on tabling, Kas?
[14:40] Kaseido Quandry: aye on tabling
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oK!
[14:40] Rose Springvale: 5 aye, 2 nay, we will table this to the next meeting
[14:40] Rose Springvale: which will not help our by election candidates, but okay
[14:41] Rose Springvale: want to introduce the next point gwyn?
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure!
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now THAT one will need discussion hehe
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So, from the move to St. League to STV, we lost one aspect
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formally, the LRA is supposed to be an administrative role,
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it was automatically assigned to the candidate with the most votes
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, with STV, it’s not easy to know who exactly had “the most votes”; the concept doesn’t really make much sense.
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last term we had a problem in defining WHO would set up the FIRST meeting,
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and what agenda to set.
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This commission proposes that it’s all automatic.
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No thinking
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The dates for the first meeting AND the first agenda are *fixed*
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So candidates *already* know when the 1st meeting is,
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and don’t even need to “get together and decide on a date”.
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ll see that the commission didn’t have a consensual recommendation.
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Part suggests that since the LRA is just an administrative role,
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: internal to the RA,
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so Alternative A is that the RA just meets 24 hours after the booths close for voting,
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and elect an LRA. Simple.
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other part views the LRA as having an important political role.
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case,
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: citizens ought to give some thought before commiting votes to canddiates
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and there will be some need for candidates to do some backbenching to agree on potential candidates.
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternaive B proposes a week of delay, between the closing of the booths,
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the first meeting,
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and additionally suggests that canddiates for the LRA (not only regular candidacies for the RA!) are also publicly announced before elections.
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this is something the RA has to vote as alternatives (or propose changes!)
[14:46] Patroklus Murakami: did the commission consider having another party call the first meeting? the outgoing LRA? or the chancellor for example?
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. We considered that *thoroughly*
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And at least on that there was a consensus,
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no external entities should interfere.
[14:47] Patroklus Murakami: and why did you reject this eminently sensible way forward?
[14:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree with that !
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of constititional issues actually. The RA is supposed to be independent on external entities,
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no matter how “convenient” the alternative might have sounded.
[14:47] Tor Karlsvalt: the new RA shuld be independant of the old RA or ther branch
[14:47] Cindy Ecksol: nice, gwyn. I like the way you did that.
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely like Tor says.
[14:48] Rose Springvale: (all the transcripts are posted btw)
[14:48] Patroklus Murakami: but the previous LRA is still LRA until the new one comes in
[14:48] Kaseido Quandry: no, actually
[14:48] Cindy Ecksol: no, the previous LRA is out of office with theend of the old term.
[14:48] Kaseido Quandry: when the RA dissolves, the LRA goes with it – it’s not an autonomous post
[14:48] Cindy Ecksol: just like all RA members….
[14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually Kas is right, You’re confusing it with the Chancellor, Pat
[14:48] Patroklus Murakami: well, the probllem with fixed dates is that they are too fixed
[14:48] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn’s proposal has a provision to let RA members vote to change the date
[14:48] Patroklus Murakami: the first task of the LRA under teh old system was to find a date for meetings
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. See the provision: the RA *can* change the dates IF they can agree, within 24 hours, to do so!
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: probably the hardest task of the term
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly!
[14:49] Tor Karlsvalt: hence the need for the new rules
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: fixing it on one day at noon will disadvantage some RA members
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So under this system, the FIRST meeting happens no matter what.
[14:49] Rose Springvale: that’s why it is important that candidates be aware of the first meeting before running
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: ppl who work on saturdays
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tough, Pat, we have 7-day votes for that.
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: or for whom noon is not convenient
[14:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Rose said. Candidates KNOW well in advance when they will have to attend the first meeting.
[14:50] Patroklus Murakami: they may KNOW but may not be ABLE
[14:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Alt A — Sunday noon, 24 hours later; Alt B — Saturday noon on the next week)
[14:50] Cindy Ecksol: so gwyn do you need an amendment to choose 1A or 1B?
[14:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7-day vote, pat. All they need to do is to elect a LRA.
[14:50] Rose Springvale: they aren’t motions yet
[14:50] Rose Springvale: this is committee report.. we’ll get to motions
[14:51] Patroklus Murakami: difficult to see how anyone who can’t attend could be elected LRA under this system
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote for Alt B then, Pat — it allows LRA elections to be more political.
[14:51] Cindy Ecksol: ok, I move the commission’s “New Term Act” with alternative 1B
[14:51] Rose Springvale: they could lobby they remaining members to change the date w/i 24 hours
[14:51] Patroklus Murakami: i think you rejected the simple solution – someone else organises the first meeting – too quickly
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alt A is an attempt to make the LRA less political and more administrative.
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, actually we didn’t reject it “too quickly”.
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We asked for opinions about cross-branch interference.
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The consensus was really, really against it.
[14:52] Patroklus Murakami: well, you rejected it without adequate consideration then
[14:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks they considered VERY adequately
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wouldn’t really propose something that I’d be sure the SC would veto,
[14:52] Rose Springvale: smiles. There is a motion on the floor, do we have a second?
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in light of the recent comment the SC made
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fully rejecting their own interference in the elections
[14:53] Rose Springvale: Cindy Ecksol: ok, I move the commission’s “New Term Act” with alternative 1B
[14:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We would have been careless if we didn’t read into that comment a clear desire to keep away from branches interfering
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: anyone want to second that?
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy, just to be clear, and that would also include: “ADD. Candidates for the Leadership of the Representative Assembly should publicly announce their intentions on the offical CDS forums before the election booths open” as the new point 2 (and renumbering the rest)?
[14:54] Rose Springvale: smiles and looks around…
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: gwyn? care to second?
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn is deliberately not seconding because I want Alternative A hehe
[14:54] Rose Springvale: i think that’s a separate issue myself, and hope the motion doesn’t include it
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Cindy! lol
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: I’m ok with that….
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:55] Tor Karlsvalt: haaha
[14:55] Cindy Ecksol: now THAT I think is “too quick”
[14:55] Cindy Ecksol: but maybe it can get a second
[14:55] Rose Springvale: are you moving it to the table gwyn?
[14:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey, we even considered doing the first meeting at the moment the booths closed
[14:55] Tor Karlsvalt: actually I am inclined to agree with Gwyn
[14:55] Cindy Ecksol: I withdraw my motion for lack of a second
[14:55] Rose Springvale: thank you cindy
[14:55] Rose Springvale: Gwyn?
[14:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I move to adopt Alternative A.
[14:55] Rose Springvale: second?
[14:55] Kaseido Quandry: second
[14:56] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[14:56] Cindy Ecksol:
[14:56] Rose Springvale: great. more discussion? or call for vote?
[14:56] Cindy Ecksol: move to close discussion
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that we can discuss “ADD. Candidates for the Leadership of the Representative Assembly should publicly announce their intentions on the offical CDS forums before the election booths open” later, separately
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds closing discussion
[14:56] Rose Springvale: all in favor of closing discussion which then leads to vote
[14:56] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:56] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[14:56] Pip Torok: aye
[14:56] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on closing
[14:56] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:57] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:57] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:57] Rose Springvale: great. motion is to adopt Alternative A
[14:57] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:57] Pip Torok: aye
[14:57] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[14:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:57] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:57] Cindy Ecksol: alt A without “ADD…etc,”?
[14:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:57] Rose Springvale: no add correct
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wwithout — we can introduce that for voting next
[14:57] Cindy Ecksol: ok, then aye
[14:58] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:58] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. now we’re amending motions after they pass?
[14:58] Rose Springvale: wait
[14:58] Rose Springvale: missing one vote i think?
[14:59] Rose Springvale: no i guess that’s everyone. I vote Aye as well.
[14:59] Rose Springvale: now
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re just voting point by point, Pat, since there wasn’t a single alternative on this bill
[14:59] Rose Springvale: motion carries. Do you want to introduce another motion?
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (not me, lol — but anyone is free to do so hehe )
[14:59] Cindy Ecksol sits on hands
[14:59] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to introduse the ADD motion?
[15:00] Rose Springvale: if not, lets save the rest of this for our next meeting.
[15:00] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn, i know you have worked hard on this
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not just me…
[15:00] Rose Springvale: smiles, your commission and the citizens.
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thank the commission members for their hard work!
[15:01] Kaseido Quandry: it was fun! mostly…..
[15:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh!
[15:01] Tor Karlsvalt:
[15:01] Rose Springvale: okay, we’ll pick up the tabled motion and the rest of the report at our next RA meeting
[15:01] Rose Springvale: Do we have any concerns to address today?
[15:01] Patroklus Murakami: when is the next meeting rose?
[15:01] Tor Karlsvalt: just one
[15:01] Rose Springvale: (hang on pat, will get to that
[15:02] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I wonder if the chancellor could publish a schedule for restarting the sims
[15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: they have been very laggy
[15:02] Rose Springvale: We will have the chancellor here for a report in the next couple of meetings, i suggest we put together questions for her for then
[15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[15:02] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, just send her a note and ask?
[15:03] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[15:04] Rose Springvale: okay, i note we are in the midst of the by election next week
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, just before I forget, can we have Jamie’s proposed bill up for discussion on the next RA meeting too?
[15:04] Rose Springvale: hopefully, will check schedules
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, thank you
[15:04] Rose Springvale: I suggest, that even though we have not finished this agenda, we not meet next week
[15:05] Rose Springvale: rather meet the week of August 15
[15:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the by-elections?
[15:05] Rose Springvale: and probably on SAturday if we want the chancellor here
[15:05] Tor Karlsvalt: true, give the new members time to catch up
[15:06] Kaseido Quandry: sounds good
[15:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll be fine with that…
[15:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[15:06] Lilith Ivory nods
[15:06] Patroklus Murakami: ok
[15:06] Timo Gufler: I will leave now… bedtime
[15:06] Rose Springvale: good. I know Saturday is hard for you though gwyn, so we’ll meet as early as we can
[15:06] Timo Gufler: bye
[15:06] Kaseido Quandry: btw, the Google Calendar’s listing of a town hall this Saturday is wrong, yes?
[15:06] Tor Karlsvalt: nite Timo
[15:06] Cindy Ecksol: not too early please…I can’t meet on Sat before 11
[15:06] Rose Springvale: haven’t seen it Kas, so assume so
[15:06] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll clean it up, if I can
[15:06] Tor Karlsvalt: it does,
[15:07] Rose Springvale: okay. Watch the announcements for the exact date and time.
[15:07] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[15:07] Rose Springvale: I’d also like to thank Pat for his service this term, as i believe this will be his last meeting
[15:07] Kaseido Quandry: ok, done – last session’s times were up on a permanent basis
[15:07] Kaseido Quandry applauds
[15:07] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[15:07] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear!
[15:07] Lilith Ivory applauds
[15:07] Rose Springvale: thank you pat!
[15:07] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[15:07] Pip Torok stands and applauses
[15:07] Rose Springvale: and best of luck on the new house and promotion
[15:07] Patroklus Murakami: best wishes for the remainder of the term everyone
[15:08] Rose Springvale: Any other announcements?
[15:08] Kaseido Quandry: anybody going to be at SLCC?
[15:08] Rose Springvale: motion to adjourn will be entertained then
[15:08] Rose Springvale: ah
[15:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Have fun, Pat
[15:08] Rose Springvale: smiles
[15:08] Rose Springvale: Delia is
[15:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Deliais
[15:08] Rose Springvale: are you Kas?
[15:08] Kaseido Quandry: Barring more sick relatives, yep
[15:08] Rose Springvale: i think solomon is too
[15:08] Cindy Ecksol: move to adjourn
[15:08] Rose Springvale: second?
[15:08] Pip Torok: second
[15:08] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[15:09] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[15:09] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[15:09] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[15:09] Lilith Ivory: aye
[15:09] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[15:09] Pip Torok: aye
[15:09] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[15:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[15:09] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[15:09] Rose Springvale: thank you all, we are adjourned!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 21 August 2010

Transcript, RA meeting August 21, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:54 pm
[10:00] Rose Springvale: let me remind everyone that we record and transcript all CDS RA meetings, if you speak you will have consented
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow Rose — that’s a record, I’m sure!
[10:00] Kaseido Quandry seconds that
[10:01] Rose Springvale: and welcome to everyoen. We have a full schedule, and i’ll be wicked with the agenda times, so hopefully eveyrone is prepared
[10:01] Lilith Ivory: back
[10:01] Rose Springvale: agenda is in the box on the table
[10:01] Keila Forager: did you ask SL Rose? hehe
[10:01] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Welcome to Keila… and congrats to you and mikelo on your successful bid to join our august group
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats indeed to the new victims, I mean, representatives!
[10:02] Rose Springvale: ah, here comes mikelo…
[10:02] Rose Springvale: welcome Mikelo
[10:02] Lilith Ivory: yea congratz to you both
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi, still rezzing
[10:02] Keila Forager: Thanks
[10:03] Rose Springvale: Delia said she’d be here to do the swearing in, so come on up and take your seat, when she gets here… (and she just logged on) we’ll do that
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: I hope I dont’run over anyone
[10:03] Rose Springvale: You can see the results of the 7 day voting on the agenda, so congrat to cindy as our new RA Archivist.
[10:03] Rose Springvale: Are there additions or corrections to the agenda?
[10:03] Lilith Ivory: congrats Cindy
[10:03] Callipygian Christensen: Who was in charge of putting the whoopee cushions on Keila and Mikelo’s seats?
[10:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:04] Rose Springvale: SL
[10:04] Rose Springvale:
[10:04] Keila Forager: Too late Calli..hehe
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Mikelo
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[10:04] Pip Torok: hi Mikelo … congrats and welcome
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: thx pip
[10:05] Rose Springvale: smiles, here comes delia
[10:05] Rose Springvale: we are ready for you Delia
[10:06] Delia Lake: sorry. still rezzing
[10:06] Delia’s translator: lo siento. Todavía rezzing
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia, Hi Rosie
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi soro
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good morning Delia
[10:06] Pip Torok: hi Soro
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Soro and Rosie too!
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas, didn’t notice you
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[10:06] Pip Torok: good evening Delia!
[10:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hi
[10:06] Rosie Gray: Hi Gwyn
[10:06] Kaseido Quandry: lol, hi TOr
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry: have some more coffee!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmmh coffee
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, I might need some again
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[10:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hi
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, hello!
[10:08] Rose Springvale: hi arria… everyone. We are waiting for delia to administer the oath the keila and mikelo
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I read recently five cups a day helps you live longer
[10:08] Lilith Ivory: omg I will become way old
[10:08] Delia Lake: ok. i think i’m enough rezzed
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he is supposed to be quiet.
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry snickers
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You look fine to me, Delia… I can even recognise your favourite jewelry designer
[10:09] Delia Lake: We have two new members of the CDS RA, Keila Forager and Mikelo Serevi
[10:10] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I am honored to welcome them to the government and to present to each the Affirmation of Office
[10:10] Delia Lake: if you would repeat please
[10:11] Delia Lake: I [name], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,
[10:11] Delia Lake: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:11] Delia Lake: Keila, then Mikelo please?
[10:11] Keila Forager: I , Keila Forager, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: I Mikelo Serevi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:12] Delia Lake: Thank you both for serving
[10:12] Rose Springvale: yay! congrtulations! thanks Delia
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: Thank Delia
[10:12] Sonja Strom: Congratulations!
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congratulations to both, and welcome!!!
[10:12] Arria Perreault: welcome to both
[10:12] Keila Forager: TY
[10:12] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[10:12] Pip Torok: Yes, congratulations to both of you
[10:12] Rose Springvale: hi Cindy :0
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: congratulations
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and hi to Cindy as well!)
[10:13] Rosie Gray applauds
[10:13] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol waves to all
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: hi Cindy
[10:13] Keila Forager: Hi Cindy
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: sorry I’m late
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Contrats Mikelo and Keila
[10:13] Rose Springvale: Okay, not to be pushy but we are ready for commission reports, and as Gwyneth has some time constraints, we’ll go directly to Elections
[10:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, take it away
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha…
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we have postponed some discussions for today, right?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps since everybody had some time to reflect on that, we can see what we have left to discuss
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn searches for hernotes
[10:14] Rose Springvale: we have three items…
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:14] Rose Springvale: they are listed on the agenda, along with the language you proposed
[10:14] Rose Springvale: at the end
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you hehe
[10:15] Rose Springvale: Campaigning Act first
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. If I remember correctly,
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia made a comment on the Campaigning Act,
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: regarding the following sentence: “Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit”
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and (correctly, I believe) said that this is “too vague”.
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So how should we rephrase it?
[10:16] Pip Torok: suggest “will be” or “is to be”
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the idea was pretty much to give a SC a free hand — just attributing a responsibility which is not clear in the Const)
[10:17] Rose Springvale: “Final interpretation of the campaigning act shall be vested in the SC?
[10:17] Cindy Ecksol likes that a lot better
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes … better than mine imo
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not only the act itself…. its application too
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless what you said, Rose, is legalese for what I meant
[10:17] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[10:17] Rose Springvale: interpretation of the applications
[10:17] Rose Springvale: application
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. shall we hear Soro?
[10:18] Delia Lake raises her hand
[10:18] Rose Springvale: sure
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: Strike “Final”
[10:18] Rose Springvale: good
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: I’d also like to make a coment on #1
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: I’d move that we strike the word “officially”
[10:18] Rose Springvale: okay, lets finish this one?
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: sorry…
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: thought we were
[10:19] Pip Torok agrees with Cindy
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… ok, Soro’s suggestion would be ” interpretation of the application ofthe campaigning act shall be vested in the SC”
[10:20] Rose Springvale: so gwyn, the proposed amended language would be “Interpretation of the application of the Campaigning Act shall be vested in the SC.”
[10:20] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:20] Rose Springvale: gmta
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:20] Rose Springvale: that would replace 2
[10:20] Kaseido Quandry: that’s good
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least the first sentence (before the comma)
[10:20] Rose Springvale: i think the second sentence is kind of given…
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, redundant I guess
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m happy to move to amend 2 to become just: “Interpretation of the application of the Campaigning Act shall be vested in the SC.”
[10:21] Delia Lake raises her hand and asks to speak
[10:21] Rose Springvale: other thoughts?
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia & Cindy next
[10:21] Rose Springvale: k go on Delia
[10:21] Delia Lake: re 2. and the SC
[10:21] Delia Lake: I did make a post on the Forum
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3026#p16278 right?
[10:22] Delia Lake: as it is, the SC is tasked with administering areas over which the SC has no control such as campaigning signs and use of group announcements
[10:23] Rose Springvale: and there are no repercussions for failure to comply
[10:23] Delia Lake: so, “as it sees fit” probably is not something that could be effectively implemented
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Rose. Hmm.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: perhaps the sc would get jurisdiction upon complaint by a citizen
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Delia! Perhaps the wording is unfortunate. The meaning is mostly that if there are any questions about any issue during the campaigning, the SC is the branch to appeal for complaints.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: but should the remedy be disqualification from the election if determined to be non compliant?
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On point 5, it’s the Executive that is tasked with doing actual work.
[10:24] Delia Lake: well, Rose, the campaigns don’t run very long, a couple of weeks at the most. if there were complaints to deal with that would delay the election
[10:25] Rose Springvale: name recognistion is a well known method of campaigning, and bad press is still press
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think that is a good idea, rose
[10:25] Rose Springvale: what do you all propose?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: we need the law to have teeth
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: The SC would be too embroiled in politics then
[10:26] Keila Forager: I disagree Tor, there needs to be a consequence or we could all just do what ever we wanted..
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I speak only for myself here, but my point is that the SC, if they THINK that the campaigning is off limits, should be able to stop things… but perhaps only act upon actual complaints.
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: /e agrees with Tor
[10:26] Rose Springvale: so how do they get that power Gwyn?
[10:26] Delia Lake: the SC is fine with administering the voting booths and the tallying of vote count and the census
[10:26] Delia Lake: but actual campaigning????
[10:26] Rose Springvale: SC is the only “unaffiliated group”…
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They oversee the application of this Campaigning Act and are allowed to act upon complaints…
[10:26] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:26] Rose Springvale: so… fines?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: limitation of voting for a period time in RA?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fines is great hehe
[10:27] Rose Springvale: public stocks?
[10:27] Rose Springvale:
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: public humiliation!!!
[10:27] Delia Lake: that would only work if it is very clear what is allowed and what is not allowed in campaigning
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I like humiliation, or censure
[10:27] Rose Springvale: well, i think if someoen starts dropping a dozen notecards, they are clearly in violation
[10:27] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[10:27] Rose Springvale: and should lose notice power?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right, Delia, We just defined ONE rule really — #3
[10:27] Keila Forager: Some people can’t be humiliated..hehe
[10:28] Pip Torok: and if naming and shaming actually shames …..
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: the possibility of getting disqualified from the election is more likely to work
[10:28] Rose Springvale: yes soro?
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no wait, #4 too)
[10:28] Delia Lake looks out the window at the stocks below
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Double the tier of the transgressor.
[10:28] Keila Forager: I agree Mikelo.. but maybe 3 strikes and your out
[10:28] Rose Springvale: i’d reather do straight fines if its goign to be monetary
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: so you can break the rules twice, great
[10:28] Kaseido Quandry: Keila, that’s good, and helps minimize the prospect of charges and counter-charges as an election tactic
[10:29] Rose Springvale: 3 violations in a two week period sort of defeats the limits
[10:29] Keila Forager: Some rules aren’t clear, as I found out this election..
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: of course won’t spamming work against a candidate?
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: theoretically…
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: let the voters decide.
[10:29] Keila Forager: Not necessarily Tor..
[10:29] Rose Springvale: see above re “name recognition”
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in practice, spam DOES work iRL.
[10:29] Rose Springvale: yep
[10:29] Keila Forager: exactly Rose, that is how I voted my first election (((
[10:30] Pip Torok: so “theres no such thing as bad publicity” won’t work here?
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: right keila but the second time in my first election I just voted my mind
[10:30] Rose Springvale: okay, we are at time. I think we need to send this back to committee
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Kaseido Quandry: agreed -it’s not cookies yet
[10:30] Rose Springvale: to determine enforcement options
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn mumbles but complies…
[10:30] Rose Springvale: sorry gwyn. Do we need to vote to send it back?
[10:31] Arria Perreault: A question
[10:31] Keila Forager thinks fines are a good consequence and adds money to CDS
[10:31] Rose Springvale: go ahead Arria
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re right, there are a lot of possibilities. Note that so far we have almost zero laws dealing wih fines, we leave that to the SC to decide under common law…
[10:31] Arria Perreault: “Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice, with an attached notecard, announcing their candidacy and stating their platform; no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed.” Is it only menat for the CDS group?
[10:31] Arria Perreault: meant*
[10:31] Rose Springvale: all official CDS groups i think, right?
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: but fines might be just seen as a campaign cost
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Official channel, Arria. We don’t know yet (do we?) what channels have been defined as the official CDS groups
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi agrees with Tor
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it would help to have a list
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We will! From the Comms Committee!
[10:32] Arria Perreault: for example, any citizen who has a FB access can post in the FB page
[10:32] Arria Perreault: no need to get an access
[10:33] Rose Springvale: i think all the sim groups. Yes. lets send it back to the Committee to look this over. Also i don’t think the SC has authority to impose fines, maybe they can give us some thoughts on what they need and want?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: is there actually a question about which groups qualify? And this is clearly addressed to sim groups.
[10:33] Arria Perreault: the law is not clear
[10:33] Rose Springvale: clearly a lot of questions open. lets move on
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Arria. And who knows, next year LL might add new communication features and such. The idea is that this law won’t need to change; we will just have a list of “official CDS channels” listed on the Comms Act or so.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: Gwyn will call another meeting i’m sure
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins — I’m free tomorrow hehe
[10:33] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:33] Arria Perreault: yes, I am fine with a list
[10:34] Rose Springvale: Chancellor Election Act?
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: wb cindy
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, Arria, THIS law will NOT list ALL channels, or it will just duplicate what’s on the Comms Act (when approved)
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: sorry, bad crash — what did I miss?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Campaigning Act moved back to committee
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: sending elections back to committee
[10:35] Arria Perreault: maybe a last comment
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok!
[10:35] Rose Springvale: needs more work … campaigning. Can it go to the committee so we can keep this meeting going?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that, Rose
[10:35] Rose Springvale: okay, go on Gwyn
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can we listen to Arria’s comment first, if it’s short?…
[10:36] Rose Springvale: smile
[10:36] Arria Perreault: we should write “Each candidate are allowed” instead of “Each candidate should be allowed”. Same for the next sentence. It looks a bit optionnal with “should”
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:36] Rose Springvale: thanks arria. The committee will consider that i’m sure
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… ok, you’re right. Sorry about my messy grammar!
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, Chancellor Act
[10:36] Arria Perreault:
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: from the discussions on the forums…
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have at least 2 things to decide.
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is technical, pointed out by Jamie, which is clarifying if someone was Chancellor for 12 months can be RA on the imemdiately following term
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, 3
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other 2 points come from Pat…
[10:38] Rose Springvale: gwyn, this is the first reading, perhaps you can start at the beginning ?
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SORRY
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re so right haha
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, some background first then.
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know that the RA has slowly moved from being paranoid to have “a single person with all power” (in the past, we had NO executive),
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to understand that some things are really best served with someone that can ACT.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus the Executive.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… when this branch was created,
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA was faction.-based
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people voted for ideas, not people
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (weird as it might sound )
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we felt that we should follow a more Parliamentarian model.
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factions would not only suggest a list of candidates,
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also a Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the idea being that the winning faction would also pick their Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the RA would be very closely aligned with the Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: having a common plan so to speak
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor would execute a plan that would have been ideologically approved by a majority of citizens that put a faction into power.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have abolished faction-voting,
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the notion that we vote for manifests and a formal group of people
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it makes no sense at all,
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the RA becomes somehow a “collegial electorate” that picks a Chancellor,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since it actually means that X different people, with different dieas from the citizens that elected them, would just pick one Chancellor — not related to actual voter’s preferences.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… the committee worked on an alternative system,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: where citizens preferences are not only made for RA members,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also for the Chancellor they wish to have.
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew. Sorry for the long rant. The idea is that teh Chancellor ought now to be picked by ALL citizens,
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not just a small elite …
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A further suggestion also got consensus…
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One term is really too short for a good Chancellor
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: Although, couldn’t it be said that the RA does reflect citizen preferences, even without factions?
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really, Mikelo, because the # of votes is not tied to actual seats.
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sol
[10:44] Solomon Mosely: hello
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g someone might have 90% of all votes in teh CDS but just get one seat at the RA and NOT have 90% of the votes for Chancellor, but just one.
[10:45] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer.
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is really no direct way to reflect citizens’ preferences in the Chancellor election IF it is just done inside the RA.
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factionless models have *some* disadvantages….
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway!
[10:45] Rose Springvale: do you want to discuss the idea first, then go to the details?
[10:45] Arria Perreault: (factions were not abolished …)
[10:46] Arria Perreault: I have some questions/remarks
[10:46] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn finish first… then we’ll open for discussion
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I think that in general this is the idea. Then we can go to the details.
[10:46] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Arria, go ahead
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’m fine in discussing things in general now.
[10:46] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:47] Arria Perreault: I give my 3 rmearks/questions together
[10:48] Arria Perreault: 1. even the Chancellor can be elected by citizen, he/she can still be removed by the RA with a 2/3 majority. Is it so?
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes!
[10:48] Arria Perreault: 2. Are there any ideas to avoid people who would work in tandem ? Can a Chancellor be candidiate two years later?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2a. I don’t understand; 2b. yes
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: no Gwyw, I htink she is saying that two ppl could agree to trade the position
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[10:50] Rose Springvale: did you want to follow up Arria?
[10:50] Arria Perreault: 3. A more general remark about people who are candidates. This remard could also concern RA candidates. Can someone run for a governmental position if he/she have such a position in an other SL community
[10:50] Arria Perreault: 2b: Tor is correct
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha GOOD question!
[10:50] Pip Torok: or perhaps a “Mom and Pop” scheme
[10:51] Rose Springvale: popular vote would make tht only work if the people agreed
[10:51] Arria Perreault: there are some example in rl
[10:51] Mikelo Serevi: good points, Arria
[10:51] Arria Perreault: I> am done with my questions
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very,very good points, although Rose has a point too
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: right pip
[10:52] Mikelo Serevi: Well, there are ways to manipulate the public as well, like the name recognition we spoke of
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the first question is easily answered… on 1, yes, the RA is still able to remove the Chancellor at any time with a 2/3 vote, just as before.
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND the vetoes are still in place too! (remember: the Chancellor can veto ANY law passed by the RA!)
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: either you trust the democratic electorate, or you don’t
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: true Kas
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Kas
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: wait…does that mean that the Chancellor can veto his/her own removal?
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except that one, Cindy hehe
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, Cindy,
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[10:53] Kaseido Quandry: good one!
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: never thought of that
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think this is a rare case where we actually have been thorough on the egislation!
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *legislation
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On point 2a, well… I think that it’s certainly possible for 2 or more people to “trade places”, but that would naturally mean that a majority of citziens would have to agree with that “arrangement”…. since they would still be eelcted, friends or no friends
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: just call it King then
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: no way, gwyn….any legislation will always have unexpected side effects
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’m sure you’re right Cindy hehe — but yes, originally that was figured out and is in teh legislation, and this proposal doesn’t change it)
[10:55] Rose Springvale: yes, and that’s kind of what happened with the faction system
[10:55] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:55] Rose Springvale: friends were able to succeed one another so long as the faction was reelected, yes?
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more nails on the coffin, Rose?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: no nails gwy
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: might need a wooden stake too
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember, factions were elected for ideas, not for who actually were part of it… anyway, that discussion is one year old, dead, biroed, and smelly
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *buried even
[10:56] Rose Springvale: (ideally)
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: well, it was still people
[10:56] Rose Springvale: what is that third issue?
[10:56] Keila Forager: read my mind Rose
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: the factions just allowed us to see where they stood, like in RL
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people embodying ideas
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, ok, no more faction discussion please… lol
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m falling into this trap!
[10:57] Rose Springvale: uh huh, and i’m watching the clock
[10:57] Rose Springvale: i’ll just throw out the CDS has no jurisdiction over what anyone does outside CDS
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Rose, SL is a world
[10:58] Rose Springvale: yes, but CDS is one project
[10:58] Arria Perreault: can someone be in a parliament of 2 countries
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: Ijust mean, imagine is someone tried to abolish RL political parties
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: if
[10:58] Pip Torok: yes … in england and scotland
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh! nice one, Pip!
[10:59] Arria Perreault: weused ask RA member to declare their interests
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t know that!
[10:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria, and to the best of my knowledge, that is still part of the legislation I think
[10:59] Arria Perreault: well, they both belong to the same entity
[10:59] Delia Lake thinks this analogy doesn’t hold water as there is not the same kind of power in sl as there is in rl
[10:59] Rose Springvale: nor geographic limitations.
[10:59] Kaseido Quandry: nor is SL based on sovereign nations
[11:00] Mikelo Serevi: power is power
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Its whatever LL allows that day.
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: what’s the actual issue here?
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my personal problem with limiting how candidates are selected based on their interests on other groups, organisations, communities etc. is that it’s impossible to figure out alts…
[11:00] Rose Springvale: but it doesn’t ahve anything to do with CDS…
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I think the Chancellor should at least declare his/her interests
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: we can’t make people declare they’re not too busy to do the job
[11:01] Rose Springvale: alts or conflicts. We do have a group who are supposed to be looking at conflicts, i suggest we leave that to them to discuss?
[11:01] Delia Lake: why should we care? what would be the implications?
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, I think that the main issue is that a Chancellor that acts as an agent for a different community might just be pushing people over. Imagine if Desmond gets an alt, joins the CDS, and secretely tries to get elected, so we all change the theme here to steampunk…
[11:01] Rose Springvale: elected democracy means … elected
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: I think we have sufficient checks and balances, gods know
[11:01] Arria Perreault: yes, the Chancellor is our agent to deal with other communities
[11:02] Arria Perreault: we do have “foreign affairs”
[11:02] Keila Forager: I think if someone is elected to do a “job ” for CDS, then regardless of other interests, CDS should be a priority. If it can’t be, then they shouldn’t run for office..
[11:02] Solomon Mosely: well then if the people here want steampunk, then who cares?
[11:02] Delia Lake: and the Chancellor can me impeached if required
[11:02] Rose Springvale: so are we going to eliminate gwyn for her relationship to Beta, Sonja for Arosa, Sudane for SLNE?
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree with Kas, and if the ppl wanted that, how would we agrue againt a theme change anyway?
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: well, rememerb….the RA still will have the ability to eject a chancellor if he/she starts running off in a direction the community doesn’t like
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing I can say, Arria, is that if a certain Chancellor is seen as acting contrary to the interests of the CDS, the RA can vote them out, if their actions are blatantly obvious…
[11:02] Pip Torok: in effect the Chancellor will be someone we all know the track record of …
[11:02] Arria Perreault: Keila, we do expect this from people. The law is here to make sure it is the case
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy… exactly…. we DID argue this before…. over 2 years ago
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: yep!
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was it three? I remember you bringing up the exact poiint, Cindy!
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: unlikely and alt will gain so much support for the position too.
[11:03] Arria Perreault: why to be so strict with notecards in campaigning and not with conflicts of interest?
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or perhaps it’s just déja vu lol
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: you’re not suggewsting that just one or two people could sway and manipulate the will of the CDS people?
[11:03] Rose Springvale: folks
[11:03] Rose Springvale: the issue here is direct election of chancellor
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: So, perhaps contrast would help, what does this new law change?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I am for it.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Mikelo. Good approach indeed.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[11:03] Rose Springvale: not ethics, conflicts etc. all those arguments apply now
[11:04] Rose Springvale: yes, thanks
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The biggest change: instead of having RA members electing the Chancellor, all the CDS citizens vote for their Chancellor.
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: well, besides the obvious direct election
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[11:04] Arria Perreault: I think that the universal suffrage of the Chancellor will give extra power to this position
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, and the ppl are the ultimate check on the RA
[11:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think it is better if RA elects chansellor
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The second change: Chancellors have 12-month-terms, and then cannot get reelected (they’d have to wait a year)
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: this is good
[11:04] Arria Perreault: I am not against this. I would like to balance this power a bit
[11:04] Pip Torok: certainly more legitimacy, imho
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: how would you balance it more Arria?
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve considered this, Arria
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the changes are procedurl, e.g. aligning the start of term and so forth
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *procedural
[11:05] Delia Lake: how so, Arria? the Chancellor/Exec is still regulated by the Consistution and the Code of Laws
[11:05] Rose Springvale: remember we will only have 5 or 7 individuals in the next RA, given current population numbers
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: Well, for example, what is the current term limit for chancellor?
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: Is there one?
[11:05] Rose Springvale: so we are placing this decision in the hands of 4 people
[11:05] Arria Perreault: I totally agree with the 12 months. A possible effect could be to have a chancellor who has to work with a RA with different opinion
[11:05] Rose Springvale: no limits now
[11:05] Keila Forager: My only question about terms is, what if there is no one to run for chancellor?
[11:05] Pip Torok: atm there isnt one, Mikelo
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: This would also make it unlikely that a member of RA would stand for elecetion to chancellor
[11:05] Arria Perreault: it’s proportional to our size
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Tor, good point!
[11:06] Rose Springvale: good question Keila, but we’ve not had that issue yet
[11:06] Arria Perreault: Tor made a good remark
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keila, GOOD question!
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm! Tricky!
[11:06] Arria Perreault: we should solve this point. It happened several times
[11:06] Keila Forager: Just looking ahead..LOL
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll randomly pick a Chancellor out of all citizens!
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:07] Pip Torok: well then the present chancellor would carry on!
[11:07] Rose Springvale: given the way the act is written, it would be a choice, run for chancellor or RA
[11:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think the RA will be more rational and the CDS voters more emotional
[11:07] Rose Springvale: and RA continues to be elected in 6 month intervals
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[11:07] Rose Springvale thinks RA gets emotional
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: term limits seem contrary to the old chancellor carring on
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well perhaps, muhammed, the question is if it’s more fair for all the citizens?
[11:07] Keila Forager: That would have to be writtien in Pip..
[11:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[11:08] Pip Torok: I agree, Keila
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol thinks term limits are a good thing….
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i think we should decide if we want direct election, then work on the term etc
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: Well, the RA is in the know, while a population can sometimes be led by the nose
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Rose’s suggestion.
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: lets vote on that then,
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[11:08] Rose Springvale: if we dont’ want direct election, we’ll waste a lot of time debating things that won’t matter
[11:08] Keila Forager: That’s another issue Mikelo,
[11:08] Keila Forager: The population should be in the know
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: I think we should consider the whole law, rather than try to push parts through
[11:08] Arria Perreault: it’s a constitutional change
[11:09] Rose Springvale: Mikelo, i also think the Exec should be accountable to the people he/she serves, not the RA specifically
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, the counter to that is that the RA can sometimes be very cliquish and do things that the community doesn’t really want
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point. So perhaps we can have a motion to vote if we want direct Chancellor elections or not, and then discuss the specifics? (there are a few other points that were raised by jamie & Pat)
[11:09] Keila Forager: That’s an understatement Cindy
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Keila
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: including choosing an exec who does not represent the desires of the community
[11:09] Rose Springvale: lots of points on those specifics.
[11:09] Arria Perreault: I think the article should be more than a draft
[11:09] Lilith Ivory nods
[11:09] Mikelo Serevi: Well the exec is about efficiency now, and I think Arria is right that it might be more about power if directly elected
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: To be trueling independant, the Chancellor is more independant and legitamate with direct election
[11:09] Rose Springvale: we can entertain a motion Gwyn, doesn’t have to be the one on the card
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok—- motion to vote if we want direct Chancellor elections.
[11:10] Keila Forager: second
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[11:10] Rose Springvale: okay!
[11:10] Arria Perreault: the chancellor elected by citizen could remove any RA law
[11:10] Rose Springvale: discussion on this motion
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ironically, this motion needs a 2/3 majority because it implies a Const. change
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: By all, RL calls
[11:10] Keila Forager: chancellor can do that now Arria
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: call the question
[11:10] Rose Springvale: bye Soro
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: wait….there is no “bill” here….
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you, Keila!)
[11:10] Rose Springvale: okay
[11:10] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, this is a constituttional change
[11:10] Rose Springvale: Question has been called
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: nor constitutional change per se
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria!
[11:10] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think we should railroad this, it’s a big change
[11:10] Arria Perreault: do you have a text to propose after our discussion
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: and ifthere is, we should NOT be voting now…..
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: no text….
[11:10] Solomon Mosely: also, we havent talked about the election process for chancellor, have we? with campaign standards?
[11:10] Kaseido Quandry: this has been in discussion for months
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: exactly….
[11:11] Rose Springvale: All in favor of direct election of the chancellor, signify by saying aye
[11:11] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: motion called folks
[11:11] Cindy Ecksol: can we do this vote as a “preference poll” an dthen send back to committee for text?
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: that would help create a balancer to allow the people to get the RA’s poersepective in debates, etc…
[11:11] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: motion seconded, and called, sorry
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: AYE
[11:11] Arria Perreault: give us the text for the constitution
[11:11] Keila Forager: aye
[11:11] Pip Torok: aye
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: motions can be single-line phrases so, aye
[11:11] Cindy Ecksol: abstain on the grounds that I cannot vote for a motion that changes the constitution and has no text
[11:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[11:11] Mikelo Serevi: nay, I don’t like how this is being done
[11:12] Arria Perreault: abstains (for the same reason than Cindy)
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: aue
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: We neeed to vote on a whole law, not force votes to squeeze parts through
[11:12] Cindy Ecksol: nor did we have discussion on the motion….
[11:12] Rose Springvale: has everyone voted?
[11:12] Rose Springvale: guys, we have procedure, if you don’t like the motion, vote against it.
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: we will still have to vote on the final amendment anyway.
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: I motion we roll back the previos vote
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: that’s right….we have procedure!
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: you called for the vote before calling for discussion on the motion!
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm.
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: until we can complete discussion
[11:13] Rose Springvale: the vote was not called by me
[11:13] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we can vote a constitutional change without a text. I will go to ask the SC
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “blame it on me”
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn loves to quote Philip Linden
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: you are the only one who has th epower to call the vote rose
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: i called it
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: if soeone else called it, it is not valid.
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: unless you say so
[11:14] Arria Perreault: right
[11:14] Rose Springvale: we are now at 7 in favor
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: well, I think if a motion is seconded, rose has to call a vote
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: question for the LRA
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: no….she has to call for DISCUSSION first!
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: this has been on the agenda for 2 RA meetings, 3 committee meetings, and has seen an active discussion on the forum. And the concept is not a complicated one.
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: won’t we have to vote on the final amendment?
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: THEN a vote when we close discussion
[11:14] Arria Perreault: or to open the discussion
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: I have to question what the agenda for this law is, who stands to benefit?
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: this was a brand-new, off the cuff motion to change the constitution, not a previously discussed detailed bill!
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: the people pushing the law through perchance?
[11:15] Arria Perreault: Kas, we don’t have a text to vote wit all details
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: we don’t even have citations on which articles will change and other things that might be affected.
[11:15] Arria Perreault: it’s not serious for the RA
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: i disagree, it has been discussed for some time
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: c’mon guys, let’s be real here….
[11:15] Rose Springvale: order please
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: which “it” Tor?
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a motion
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a second
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… it’s not unusual to call for a general vote and only go into specifics later…
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a call of the question
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: yes….and then we did NOT have discussion on THAT motion!
[11:15] Rose Springvale: no one is trying to push anything
[11:15] Arria Perreault: Tor, the legislative work need details
[11:15] Rose Springvale: call of the question means NO discussion
[11:15] Rose Springvale: our vote here now
[11:15] Mikelo Serevi: Fine, so let’s vote for whole laws with text then
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: OK we were breaking this down by sections
[11:16] Kaseido Quandry: there’s no point doing detailed work if the basic concept doesn’t have 2/3 support
[11:16] Arria Perreault: I suggest our vote was a mandate to the committee to work in this direction
[11:16] Rose Springvale: 8-2-2 i think?
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the only issue was if we should have direct election in the amendment to the const.
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol for once agrees with Arria
[11:16] Arria Perreault: not a constitutional change
[11:16] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[11:16] Arria Perreault:
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: TOr, that “issue” requires constitutional change….
[11:16] Rose Springvale: which implies that the RA as a whole supports direct election, but wants to play with the language
[11:16] Rose Springvale: please
[11:16] Rose Springvale: order
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: if it’s a PREFERENCE vote, that’s one thing…and I’d be voting in favor
[11:16] Rose Springvale: 8 is not 2/3 of 13
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: but I will NOT vote in favor of a constitutional change that has no wording!
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, neither will I!
[11:17] Rose Springvale: we need 9 to pass so we can either go back to discussion or continue to grandstand
[11:17] Mikelo Serevi: exactly, cindy
[11:17] Cindy Ecksol: let’s go back to discussion…and do it properly next time.
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose, would we still have a vote on the entire amendment to the const.
[11:17] Rose Springvale: guys, all i did was procedureal! gwyn made the motion
[11:17] Rose Springvale: So
[11:17] Rose Springvale: gwyn
[11:18] Pip Torok: if only 8 of 13 have voted for, then this is all theory! …..
[11:18] Rose Springvale: do you want to resume discussion?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, because the point is, if we can’t even get a supermajority to agree with direct Chancellor elections, we don’t even need to discuss it further.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: agrees.
[11:18] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, did you mean to change the constitutuion today without text?
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: exactly!
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why waste time then?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, lol
[11:18] Rose Springvale: well, we are at time
[11:18] Arria Perreault: or did you ask for a mandate fpr your commission?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the proposed text is in the notecard.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: so we can roll this over to thursday
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: “Art II, Section 5 – Deleted and replaced with:
1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the RA.”
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we did not discuss any detail
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Well this can be an issue for the next RA elections perhaps.
[11:19] Rose Springvale: we will meet at noon on thursday to continue the electyiral commission
[11:19] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[11:19] Arria Perreault: there was a lot of questions/remarks and the text was not cahnged
[11:19] Rose Springvale: moving on now
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[11:19] Rose Springvale: yes?
[11:19] Arria Perreault: doesnt it mean that committee are making our job?
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: as archivist, exactly how am I supposed to record this vote???
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: is it a “law”?
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: and if so, what is the text?
[11:20] Rose Springvale: you can pull it from the transcript.
[11:20] Rose Springvale: We are moving on to commission reports
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: my point: there IS NO TEXT!
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: we somehow changed the constitution…but no one knows how!
[11:20] Mikelo Serevi: I did motion to disregard the vote
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: OR…this vote was “advisory”
[11:20] Rose Springvale: elections commission will continue on thursday. there was a motion, and it did not pass
[11:20] Rose Springvale: neither
[11:21] Rose Springvale: it was of constitutional relevance and did not pass
[11:21] Rose Springvale: that’s all on that
[11:21] Pip Torok: if 6 voted of 13 we havent changes anything Cindy
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: ok….fine
[11:21] Rose Springvale: Commerce commission?
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: next…
[11:21] Pip Torok: (6=8)
[11:21] Rose Springvale: Lilith do you have a report?
[11:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: I thought Gwyn’s vote took us over the top
[11:21] Rose Springvale: no
[11:21] Arria Perreault: I suggest we clarify our rules of procesures about constitutional changes
[11:21] Lilith Ivory: not much to say since the last meeting
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[11:22] Rose Springvale: Lilith has the floor now
[11:22] Lilith Ivory: my RL was quite troublesome lately so I had no time to figure out a proper time for a next meeting
[11:22] Lilith Ivory: wher we can discus how to bring all the good idea we collected into action
[11:22] Lilith Ivory:
[11:23] Rose Springvale: thank you lilith, when you figure it out, please post and announce?
[11:23] Lilith Ivory: sorry I can´t say more at the moment
[11:23] Lilith Ivory: I will for sure
[11:23] Rose Springvale: Citizenship commission, Arria?
[11:23] Arria Perreault: we had a good meeting on 10 August.
[11:24] Arria Perreault: Calli and I, we will work soon on a draft that the committee can discuss.
[11:24] Arria Perreault: As soon as the draft is ready, I will call the meeting
[11:24] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[11:24] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: huh yeah
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Alsas I have not had any meetings
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I have a question for Tor
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: however I can report that sudane has done great work
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes arria
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I would like we look the following case :
[11:27] Arria Perreault: when someone sell a land in the middle of a month and that the fees was already paid, would it possible to get the fees back for the half of the month and to charge the next owner
[11:27] Arria Perreault: ?
[11:27] Rose Springvale grimaces. Sudane will say no way
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Arria. we can make that part of adgenda for the next meeting
[11:27] Kaseido Quandry: really?!
[11:27] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:27] Keila Forager: Half the places I’ve lived in , in SL, say no way..lol
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: at least we will be able to get public opinoino on that question
[11:28] Rose Springvale: go on please Tor
[11:28] Arria Perreault: I don’t mean technically.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but let me return to the new tier policy
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja has just posted the following to the forum at:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Pip Torok wd be interested in RL analagous precedence
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. Tier is due in CDS on the 7th day of each month.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: For the convenience of the parties, tier payment boxes will be open for tier payment on the 28th of the prior month (10 days prior to due date).
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Tier is delinquent and boxes close for payment on the 12th day of the month (five days after due date). You must pay your tier to your box during this time.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 2. On the 13th of the month, parcels which remain unpaid will be repossessed.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: 3. On the 21st of the month, (two weeks after the due date) repossessed parcels will be cleared and resold.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: 4. If you know that you will be unable to be in world while the boxes are open, please contact the treasurer by notecard, email or im to arrange for prepayment, so that you don’t lose your property.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: These new policies will become effective on September 1. Please be aware that as the law of the land they will be enforced.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will also create a notecard giver to place at the tier box loclocations that will provide this info in-world.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Kaseido Quandry: nicely done
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja allowed me the honor of inserting this in the record.
[11:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you!
[11:29] Arria Perreault: can you give us the notecard?
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:30] Rose Springvale: Anything else to report Tor?
[11:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: wb gwyn
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt gave you New Tier Policy Effective Sept 1 2010.
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn grumbles about her ISP
[11:31] Rose Springvale: thanks… if you want, we can put that in the box on the table
[11:32] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you! let us know when you call more meetings
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes pls put it in the box
[11:32] Rose Springvale: but this is great work, thanks to the Exec, the Tresurer and the committee
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: um probably in the next few weeks
[11:32] Rose Springvale: Kas, Comms?
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I hould have one before the fest
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices she missed all the fun lol
[11:32] Kaseido Quandry: The Chancellor’s failure to implement the Communiations Act continues. Nothing the RA can do till that’s resolved.
[11:33] Rose Springvale: we’ll hear from the chancellor next, perhaps there will be a report on tht
[11:33] Rose Springvale: Thanks.
[11:33] Mikelo Serevi: What is it that needs to be done?
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry nods
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: Implement the changes to notice access, primarily
[11:33] Rose Springvale: Sonja, Chancellors report next, floor is yours
[11:33] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose
[11:34] Sonja Strom: Since the last Chancellors Report,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: Here in the CDS we have had a series of very fun events,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: including the Inaugural Ball,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: a Beach Party,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: and ongoing concerts in Locus Amoenus, weekly on Tuesdays.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: We are now organizing for Oktoberfest in Second Life, for from Sept. 18th to Oct. 4th.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: If you would like to help with events,
[11:36] Sonja Strom: please let Anna Toussaint or I know.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: As discussed here in the RA,
[11:37] Sonja Strom: the community has agreed it would be good to reparcel Alpine Meadow plot AH2
[11:37] Sonja Strom: into four smaller parcels,
[11:37] Sonja Strom: one for the prims and three for buildings.
[11:37] Sonja Strom: This issue has been brought to the New Guild,
[11:38] Sonja Strom: and discussed there at a preliminary level.
[11:38] Sonja Strom: Now it is an active item on the Guild agenda.
[11:39] Sonja Strom: Most likely over the course of the next few weeks,
[2010/08/21 11:39] Sonja Strom: the best way to do this reparcelling will be decided upon
[2010/08/21 11:39] Sonja Strom: and completed.
[2010/08/21 11:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you all very much for all of your work on new policies regarding nonpayment of tier
[2010/08/21 11:40] Sonja Strom: and the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
[2010/08/21 11:42] Sonja Strom: Especially we are thankful for the diligent and tireless work of Tor Karlsvalt,
[2010/08/21 11:42] Sonja Strom: who really is the one who kept this moving forward up to its completion.
[2010/08/21 11:42] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2010/08/21 11:43] Sonja Strom: Now agreement has been reached on them, and we are announcing the new policies today.
[2010/08/21 11:43] Rose Springvale: (applauds ALL our commission chairs.)
[2010/08/21 11:43] Sonja Strom applauds them all as well.
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: The Executive Branch has posted these new policies in the Forum, here:
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: as noted by Tor earlier when he spoke about this issue.
[2010/08/21 11:45] Sonja Strom: Once again, thanks to all of you for your work on this difficult issue,
[2010/08/21 11:45] Al Andalus Hoods Lot 28tier box: Al Andalus Hoods Lot 28 tier box @ Al Andalus Alhambra 211, 76, 51 – Joaquin Gustav paid L$2282. They now have 29 days, 23 hours, 51 minutes and 23 seconds remaining on their contract.
[2010/08/21 11:45] Sonja Strom: and your patience in getting it worked out.
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: The new policies are MUCH better than the old ones,
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: and will work much better from here,
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: that is,
[2010/08/21 11:47] Sonja Strom: after they come into effect on the 1st of September,
[2010/08/21 11:47] Sonja Strom: around ten days from today.
[2010/08/21 11:48] Sonja Strom: The PIO Anna Toussaint and I are working on written descriptions of the roles of the Excecutive communications team,
[2010/08/21 11:48] Sonja Strom: and how public noticifications should be made.
[2010/08/21 11:49] Sonja Strom: There is already an overall description posted on the CDS website, or web portal,
[2010/08/21 11:49] Sonja Strom: here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=executive
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: Anna is assembling a PIO team, and has found some assistance.
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: As I have always said before,
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: and I will say it here once again,
[2010/08/21 11:51] Sonja Strom: for any public information question at all anyone may contact either Anna as PIO or I as Chancellor,
[2010/08/21 11:51] Sonja Strom: and we will be happy to help.
[2010/08/21 11:51] Rose Springvale: sonja, i know there are some questiosn, so can you wrap up so RA members can ask them please?
[2010/08/21 11:51] Kaseido Quandry: The RA has been awaiting reply to contact since July 29.
[2010/08/21 11:52] Sonja Strom: shall I stop giving the Report?
[2010/08/21 11:52] Rose Springvale: well, you have run out of time, I think lets have questions, and you can post whatever else you have
[2010/08/21 11:52] Rose Springvale: in the Exec thread perhaps
[2010/08/21 11:52] Sonja Strom: The schedule says I have 15 minutes.
[2010/08/21 11:53] Kaseido Quandry: You’ve had the floor from 11;33 to 11;52
[2010/08/21 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: should we vote to extend the RA meeting?
[2010/08/21 11:53] Sonja Strom: Has it been so long?
[2010/08/21 11:53] Rose Springvale: i’m on a tight schedule today so lets just proceed
[2010/08/21 11:53] Rose Springvale: yes, you have
[2010/08/21 11:53] Arria Perreault: I think we should listen what the Chancellor has to say
[2010/08/21 11:54] Arria Perreault: we have only one report a month
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: I can stop if you prefer.
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: fine, we will just limit concerns
[2010/08/21 11:54] Arria Perreault: 15 min a month …
[2010/08/21 11:54] Keila Forager: Copy and paste whole paragraphs sonja
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: go on, and yes, copy paste workes better
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: I am here for you…
[2010/08/21 11:54] Kaseido Quandry: yes, please, thank you
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: at your request.
[2010/08/21 11:54] Kaseido Quandry: I beleive we asked you to do that last time as well
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: actually, the law required a monthly report
[2010/08/21 11:55] Rose Springvale: just finish please
[2010/08/21 11:55] Sonja Strom: And I am giving a monthly report, or trying to
[2010/08/21 11:55] Sonja Strom: I will type faster
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: What I was going to say next is,
[2010/08/21 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking only for myself, I’d prefer to hear everything even if it takes longer…
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: Anna is also working on standardizing and updating the inworld Information Kiosks.
[2010/08/21 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry Sonja!)
[2010/08/21 11:56] Mikelo Serevi: Me too gwyn
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: np
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: There is also now an RA Archivist, Cindy Ecksol.
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: The creator of the web portal Alexicon has given access for Cindy to access the CDS web portal,
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: but unfortunately her password appears not to work.
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: We are working on getting this straightened for her.
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: Now all Members of the RA have been given access to the CDS Google Calendar,
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: and all CDS citizens have been given the ability to post notices to the CDS group.
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Since some changes came with the choice of Al Andalus to leave the CDS,
[2010/08/21 11:58] Cindy Ecksol notes that she still doe snot have access
[2010/08/21 11:58] Kaseido Quandry: no, nor do I have RA-level access
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Sorry about that, Cindy
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, what is RA-level access?
[2010/08/21 11:59] Rose Springvale: citiznes don’t have notice priveleges on the CDS group now
[2010/08/21 11:59] Cindy Ecksol: y tag still says “CDS Citizen”
[2010/08/21 11:59] Kaseido Quandry: no, my apologies, it looks like I do now, thank you
[2010/08/21 12:00] Mikelo Serevi: you can change it yourself, Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: oh….wait….this darn new 2.0 browser hides everything!
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: just found it…
[2010/08/21 12:00] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, we weren’t able to till recently – I couldn’t, the last time I checked
[2010/08/21 12:00] Sonja Strom: Rose and Cindy, all citizens of the CDS now have the exact same posting rights in the CDS group as any member of the Executive Team.
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: sheesh!
[2010/08/21 12:00] Rose Springvale: if you look at the CDS group, and the citizen role… the send notices box is not checked
[2010/08/21 12:00] Mikelo Serevi: yeah, v2, ack
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: i just refreshed. not checked
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: confirmed – this has *not* been done
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, go under “Notices” and see if you have a + sign….
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: *I* do
[2010/08/21 12:01] Callipygian Christensen: I can post a notice, as a reference point
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: but this is about CItizens rights
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: Kas? do you?
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: look in the group roles
[2010/08/21 12:01] Sonja Strom: Rose and everyone, I have no ability to alter the Citizen controls.
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Under “Roles,” if you look at CDS Citizen
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Allowed Abilities
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: oh….
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Notices
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: gotcha
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: “Send Notices” is blank
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: this is what the law callled on the Chancellor to change a month ago
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: Sonja you do
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: or should
[2010/08/21 12:02] Sonja Strom: What I have been able to do, is to give everyone the same rights to post notices as the Executive Team.
[2010/08/21 12:02] Sonja Strom: That I have done.
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: follow up with Sudane or jamie i guess or claude, as owners lol
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: that is not true, and I’m looking right at the evidence of that
[2010/08/21 12:03] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, if you open your group info box,
[2010/08/21 12:03] Rose Springvale: wow, so we have a community full of executives lol
[2010/08/21 12:03] Keila Forager: Give it a week..LOL
[2010/08/21 12:03] Sonja Strom: you can change your level to Executive.
[2010/08/21 12:03] Kaseido Quandry: oh, I see what you did – ok, that’s bizarre
[2010/08/21 12:03] Kaseido Quandry: and really not a good idea, I don’t think.
[2010/08/21 12:03] Keila Forager: No, not a good idea at all..
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: could you please follow up with one of the group owners sonja and grant the power to citizens?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, that was the only abiltity for that I had.
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: and then leave exec as exec?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Kaseido Quandry: See, this is why I requested a meeting with you and your team
[2010/08/21 12:04] Mikelo Serevi: Was this change made in response to a law?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, you can choose to be unhappy with it,
[2010/08/21 12:04] Kaseido Quandry: Well, NL13-1(d) called on the Chancellor to extend notice abilities to all citizens
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: do you have more to present sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: but it did what you wanted.
[2010/08/21 12:04] Keila Forager: All the citizens could walk around as execs’ and totally confuse new citizens..hehe
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: oh my!
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: surely we can do better…
[2010/08/21 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too
[2010/08/21 12:05] Rose Springvale: we are at 5 past 12
[2010/08/21 12:05] Sonja Strom: I did give notice abilities to all citizens.
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: exec role needs to be different than citizen role….
[2010/08/21 12:05] Mikelo Serevi: I’m sure we can work it out
[2010/08/21 12:05] Keila Forager: I think we should let Sonja finish , then discuss..
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes, sonja…but you also gave them EVERYTHING ELSE!!!
[2010/08/21 12:05] Kaseido Quandry: Sonja, if you had simply lived up to your own promise to actually respond to requests for meetings, we could’ve prevented this cockup
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: not such a good idea….
[2010/08/21 12:05] Mikelo Serevi: But it doesn’t seem that Sonja has “failed” us
[2010/08/21 12:06] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[2010/08/21 12:06] Rose Springvale: lets not get into personality issues, but if you’d meet with kas’s committee please sonja, that would help
[2010/08/21 12:06] Sonja Strom: Cindy, I am not unhappy with giving abilities to any of our citizens.
[2010/08/21 12:06] Sonja Strom: This is a good community —
[2010/08/21 12:06] Rose Springvale: that isn’t what the law says though, if we need to revisit it to be more clear, it will need to come to the RA
[2010/08/21 12:06] Keila Forager: But it shouldn’t be your decision Sonja..
[2010/08/21 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I could use some of these powers to remove plywood boxes I find rezzed around town.
[2010/08/21 12:07] Keila Forager: I’m now an exec, see
[2010/08/21 12:07] Kaseido Quandry: Have you complied with NL13-1(e), Sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:07] Sonja Strom: Keila, what should not be my decision?
[2010/08/21 12:07] Lilith Ivory is way concerned about some … uhm toga merchants …having exec rights
[2010/08/21 12:07] Rose Springvale: is there a reason you can’t meet with the commission Sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:08] Keila Forager: to make me an exec..
[2010/08/21 12:08] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he might check if his cabin is still there.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Solomon Mosely: guys, this is details for later, i think. can we get on with the report of Exec. highlights?
[2010/08/21 12:08] Keila Forager: Sonja, Just a suggestion, but seems if would be more efficient time wise and for you and the rest of the RA if you were to be prepared with your report in a notecard and copy and paste. Typing your report cuts into others allowed time and no time for questions.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Sonja Strom is searching for the text of NL13-1(e),
[2010/08/21 12:08] Kaseido Quandry: Passwords changed and shared with the LRA and Dean
[2010/08/21 12:08] Sonja Strom: and will respond so soon as she knows what it is
[2010/08/21 12:08] Kaseido Quandry: e. Passwords for all official media channels shall be held by the Chancellor and appropriate members of the Public Information Team, the LRA and the Dean of the SC. Under no circumstances shall these passwords be known only to one person. At the beginning of their term, the Chancellor shall change all passwords and immediately notify the LRA and the Dean of the SC of the new passwords for the term.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Rose Springvale: kas, when would you like to meet? lets just set a date
[2010/08/21 12:09] Sonja Strom: Thank you Kaseido
[2010/08/21 12:09] Kaseido Quandry: I’m wide open, except for Monday Wednesday and Friday before noon SLT
[2010/08/21 12:09] Rose Springvale: Sonja, is there a time you’d propose given those parameters?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Sonja Strom: Why do you want to meet with me, Kaseido?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: hmm
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: is there a problem?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Keila Forager: oh my
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: out of respect for all the people who want to talk about this issue, i would like you to meet with the commission
[2010/08/21 12:10] Kaseido Quandry: For the same reason Tor wants you to attend Finance meetings, Sonja
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: then you can finish your report and we can get on with the meeting?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: I am the elected Chancellor, and I am doing my duties as the Chancellor.
[2010/08/21 12:11] Kaseido Quandry: What is the problem, Sonja? I thought anyone could bring you their concerns – surely that extends to the RA?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: Are you unhappy with them?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Kaseido Quandry: Pick your time, and I’ll call a Communications Committee meeting around it
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: is there a problem meeting?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, that is true
[2010/08/21 12:12] Sonja Strom: is that what you want to meet about?
[2010/08/21 12:12] Kaseido Quandry: OMFG, yes – as I’ve requested publicly and privately, and called for in 3 RA meetings now
[2010/08/21 12:12] Sonja Strom: why can’t we talk about that now?
[2010/08/21 12:12] Rose Springvale: we are out of time sonja
[2010/08/21 12:12] Rose Springvale: over half an hour now
[2010/08/21 12:12] Kaseido Quandry: Because we should have adjourned 12 minutes ago
[2010/08/21 12:13] Sonja Strom: I see no reason at all for our conversations to be only in private
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: out of respect for the RA members, please meet in commission and report back to us
[2010/08/21 12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Maybe more time should be allocated for Sonja’s report next time?
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: nothing is private in commissions
[2010/08/21 12:13] Kaseido Quandry: no one has had a private conversation
[2010/08/21 12:13] Sonja Strom: if they re about public matters
[2010/08/21 12:13] Arria Perreault: yes,I agree with Mikelo
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input mikelo
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: and arria
[2010/08/21 12:13] Keila Forager: Maybe she can copy and paste next time and save some time
[2010/08/21 12:13] Kaseido Quandry: *PLEASE*
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: we will call a special meeting for the chancellors report henceforth
[2010/08/21 12:14] Mikelo Serevi: RA meetings aren’t special?
[2010/08/21 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: State of the Sim.
[2010/08/21 12:14] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, please just set a public meeting for the communications
[2010/08/21 12:14] Kaseido Quandry: Let the record show the Chancellor continues to refuse to meet with the COmmunications Commission
[2010/08/21 12:14] Delia Lake is wondering aloud how there could be more people in the Executive branch of the CDS group than there citizens in the CDS………
[2010/08/21 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: really monthly reports shouldn’t be too long.
[2010/08/21 12:14] Rose Springvale: major issues here folks
[2010/08/21 12:14] Sonja Strom: I come to all of the Commission meetings that I can
[2010/08/21 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises but has to go now, and wish you all a great end-of-meeting…. I’m sorry!
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: and i think we have reached the end of our ability to do constructive work today
[2010/08/21 12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: PICK! A! TIME!
[2010/08/21 12:15] Delia Lake: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Keila Forager: By Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Arria Perreault: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Sonja Strom: I have attended many of them.
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: yes Sonja, please, just pick a time now to meet with Communications
[2010/08/21 12:15] Pip Torok notes that there is NO _refusal_ to meet … on anyone’s part
[2010/08/21 12:15] Keila Forager: Sonja, just pick a time for Kas
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: i’m sure many of us would like to meet
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: The Chancellor continues to refuse to meet with the communications commission, which has indicated it will meet at *any* time she chooses
[2010/08/21 12:16] Arria Perreault: will be this meeting a public one with transcript?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Mikelo Serevi: why are you badgering the chancellor? She’ll meet if she can
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: I apologize to the RA and the Citiznes, we are well behind time
[2010/08/21 12:16] Callipygian Christensen is a citizen and would like to be heard
[2010/08/21 12:16] Sonja Strom: I can meet next Saturday at 11am PDT
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: thank you
[2010/08/21 12:16] Kaseido Quandry: Sold.
[2010/08/21 12:16] Sonja Strom: Where shall we meet?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Can the LRA recognize Calli
[2010/08/21 12:16] Arria Perreault: KAs, will be this meeting a public one with transcript?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: indeed. All commission meetings are public and transcripted
[2010/08/21 12:16] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, I can wait..I just dont want Citizen’s concerns dropped due to time..thank you
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: thank you sonja
[2010/08/21 12:16] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, stop grandstanding. *All* meetings of all CDS commissions are public and transcipted
[2010/08/21 12:17] Keila Forager: Me either Calli and I have one too
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: if you have more to report, please put it on the Exec thread of the forum
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: we need to move on now
[2010/08/21 12:17] Sonja Strom: alright
[2010/08/21 12:17] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your kindness,
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: we are now to RA/citizens concerns
[2010/08/21 12:18] Arria Perreault: are announcements concerns?
[2010/08/21 12:18] Sonja Strom: and supportiveness.
[2010/08/21 12:18] Keila Forager raises hand but Calli was first
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: I recognize alli and keila
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: Calli
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: no arria, after
[2010/08/21 12:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[2010/08/21 12:18] Callipygian Christensen: If you truly want an involved citizenship, ALL of you RA members and Chancellor need to make coming to RA, following what is happening, INVITING
[2010/08/21 12:18] You decline Locus Amoenus Common Land, Locus Amoenus (119, 154, 24) from A group member named Kaseido Quandry.
[2010/08/21 12:19] Rose Springvale: thank you Calli
[2010/08/21 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: A Chencello’rs *report* can be written up, in the box, and actually have the time used for Q & A…
[2010/08/21 12:19] Keila Forager: I agree
[2010/08/21 12:19] Kaseido Quandry: yes, as requested last time.
[2010/08/21 12:19] Rose Springvale: done?
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: RA members can read and post on the forum threads of commissions and be prepared…
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: argue it out there..
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: and, with all due respect to ALL of you..
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: you still sound like furstrated schoolchildren still taking jabs at each other ver the issues of the last year
[2010/08/21 12:20] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: I understand that some of you are furstrated..some of you feel like martyrs…
[2010/08/21 12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: well get off the cross
[2010/08/21 12:21] Rose Springvale: keila?
[2010/08/21 12:21] Keila Forager: I have a citizen’s concern from Richie Deschanel about the textures on the clocktower in NFS. They don’t match and I’ve had visitors to CDS comment on it. They need to be fixed, so can they be fixed???
[2010/08/21 12:21] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[2010/08/21 12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: has a small issue
[2010/08/21 12:21] Rose Springvale: That needs to go to the Chancellor i think. All community rebuilting, changes are Exec decisions Keila
[2010/08/21 12:22] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[2010/08/21 12:22] Keila Forager: OK, well it looks very out of place..
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: in line with what Keila mentioned
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: the flags on the schloss are waiving in different directions
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that was pointed out by someone
[2010/08/21 12:22] Rose Springvale: again, needs to go to the chancellor
[2010/08/21 12:22] Keila Forager: It’s amazing what visitors will notice
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: another point
[2010/08/21 12:23] Pip Torok: our flags are confrontational!
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: RE land in LA
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has had to repossess much since Arias left
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: howver there are still 4 parcels under his control
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane is hesitant to seize these until the end of the month
[2010/08/21 12:24] Pip Torok: There is a payment problem?
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: well tier has been paid through July
[2010/08/21 12:25] Keila Forager: If tier is not paid, she should seize them now..
[2010/08/21 12:25] Mikelo Serevi: luckily, we have a dandy new policy to deal with this in time
[2010/08/21 12:25] Pip Torok: till the end of July?
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: law controls Tor, i’m sure Sudane will handle it as soon as possible
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: no not until the 28th
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes she will just wanted all to know
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: thanks
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: this will affect the quay
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[2010/08/21 12:26] Rose Springvale: Arria did you have one?
[2010/08/21 12:26] Arria Perreault: yes
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: I am please to announce to you the official opening of the Villa of the Mysteries in Locus Amoenus
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: it’s a project of Ulysse Alexandre and I
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: Ulysse has made the main work of building
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: we have worked together on texturing
[2010/08/21 12:27] Cindy Ecksol waves to all….must run!
[2010/08/21 12:27] Rose Springvale: thanks cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Keila Forager: Bye Cindy, me too
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Rose Springvale: thank you for the announcement Arria. Any others?
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: this building is the reconstitution of the half of the villa of the same name in Pompei
[2010/08/21 12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: very nice Arria
[2010/08/21 12:28] Pip Torok: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: I am not done
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: I am wondering if we have any new citizens in the CDS
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: at 1pm, we have an opening party
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: to bad Sonja is gone by now
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: everybody is welcome
[2010/08/21 12:28] Pip Torok: I’d like to congratulate Arria and Ulysse on behalf of the RA for the magnificent build in LA
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: we will also give a guided tour
[2010/08/21 12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: ‚ô´~~‚ô´~~APPLAUSE~~‚ô´~~‚ô´
[2010/08/21 12:29] Mikelo Serevi:
[2010/08/21 12:29] Lilith Ivory: applause
[2010/08/21 12:29] Rose Springvale: are you finished?
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: some paintings are after the orginal
[2010/08/21 12:29] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: thank to Sonja and Anna for their help
[2010/08/21 12:29] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing more, i’ll entertain a motion to adjourn, with apologies for the length of the meeting.
[2010/08/21 12:30] Arria Perreault: I am done
[2010/08/21 12:30] Mikelo Serevi: second
[2010/08/21 12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: nice job Arria
[2010/08/21 12:30] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[2010/08/21 12:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[2010/08/21 12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Arria Perreault: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned. thank you
[2010/08/21 12:31] Rose Springvale: next meeting noon on thursday august 26

Permalink.

RA Meeting 24 August 2010

Transcript, RA meeting August 26, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:38 pm
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Thanks for coming everyone. We have a quorum so we can begin. Remember that everything is recorded and transcripted
[12:02] Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Arria!
[12:03] Pip Torok: we’re symmetrical!
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: hi Arria
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: hi arria
[12:03] Timo Gufler: hi Arria
[12:03] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, i’m going to just hand the reigns over to you
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:03] Rose Springvale: welcome everyone
[12:03] Pip Torok: are we quorate?
[12:03] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:03] Rose Springvale: go ahead gwyn
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor me
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:04] Rose Springvale: hey, you may finish today!
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: specially because I haven’t done all my homework!
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, so perhaps we can focus on ONE of the issues
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. Chancellor direct election
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The comission has at least managed, in a blitz-meeting yesterday,
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to agree to split the overall legislation
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that deals with the Chancellor
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in three separate parts
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: sigh
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #1 – Constitutional change introducing the concept of a directly-elected Chancellor
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #2 – Regulating the way the Chancellor is elected
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #3 – Term duration and limits.
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… three bills
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bear with me as I post the text for them, which will take me a bit of time to copy and paste all the correct bits
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then I guess we can discuss…
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s call bill #1 — Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act (I like long names! hehe)
[12:08] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art II, Section 5 – Deleted and replaced with:
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the SC.
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. The Chancellor will serve a term ending with the election of the next Chancellor.
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council.
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it. Simple. Feel free to discuss while I assemble bits and pieces of the next two lol
[12:10] Rose Springvale: point of information
[12:10] Rose Springvale: only the first item is a change, correct
[12:10] Rose Springvale: ?
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I still do question why it’s being split up
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Bill #1 is the ONLY one with a Constitutional Amendment.
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and items 2 and 3 are already law i think
[12:11] Rose Springvale: of what you just posted
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, sorry… answering Rose first….
[12:11] Rose Springvale: lets do this in order, if you have comments, raise hands please?
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item 2 is not different, no
[12:11] Arria Perreault: I have an amendment for 3.
[12:11] Mikelo Serevi: this isn’t a classroom
[12:11] Rose Springvale: its a formal meeting. please let gwyn finish then you will have a turn
[12:11] Arria Perreault raises hand
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item 3 drops the wording regarding the “Artisanal COuncil”
[12:11] Rose Springvale: after mikelo arria
[12:12] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: wow, is debate really being silenced?
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn. finished?
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as an effort to slowly get rid our laws of that oddity.
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now the answer to Mikelo!
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simple, Mikelo. Bill #1 is the ONLY with a COnstitutional Amendment and requires a 2/3 supermajority vopte of all RA members.
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bills #2 and #3 are simple laws, just need a regular majority.
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Right, but the other parts are essential
[12:13] Rose Springvale: do you have mor to say Mikelo?
[12:13] Rose Springvale: on this part?
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re mostly procedural; not essencial.
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *essential even
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I feel that this is being railroaded a bit
[12:13] Rose Springvale: current law would control if they aren’t passed
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly like Rose says.
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Although I don’t oppose direct election necessarily
[12:13] Rose Springvale: we are here to discuss the issues Mikelo, no one is railroading anything.
[12:14] Rose Springvale: if you are finished, lets let Arria have a turn
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: but you are talking over me here
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, Mikelo! That way, if you agree with the direct election, but disagree with the rest of the procedures, you can vote on #1 and vote against #2 and #3. That’s the intended idea
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: I see
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I have a cquestion related to the answer to Mikelo and an amendment for 3. 1. the thequestion: are the two other bills valid only if the constitutional amendment pass?
[12:14] Rose Springvale: wait
[12:14] Rose Springvale: lets make sure he’s finished so he’s not talked over
[12:15] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:15] Rose Springvale: tell us when you are finished please Mikelo
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: go ahead, arria
[12:15] Rose Springvale: smiles. i’ll take that as finished. please go ahead arria
[12:15] Arria Perreault: I have a cquestion related to the answer to Mikelo and an amendment for 3. 1. the thequestion: are the two other bills valid only if the constitutional amendment pass?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: is that the intent of the commission?
[12:17] Rose Springvale: hmm, may have lost her
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry…
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s an excellent question, Arria!
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We didn’t address it at the meeting, but I suppose that teh two bills do not *require* the const. amendment to pass.
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might be useful on their own, as procedures
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol scratches her head over that one….
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I won’t answer it. I’d say, I’d be fine in voting on them nevertheless
[12:18] Arria Perreault: they are not related to the fact the Chancellor is elected by all citizen?
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: the thign is, they are all part of the same change
[12:18] Rose Springvale: one at a time folks
[12:18] Rose Springvale: arria has the floor now
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: how can we pass a new process for chancellor election if we’re not changing the process for chancellor election?
[12:19] Rose Springvale: cindy please wait
[12:19] Pip Torok: I wd not have thought so, Arria
[12:19] Rose Springvale: grrr
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: so why split it up?
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: sorry rose, but this is discusion
[12:19] Arria Perreault: especially number 2
[12:19] Rose Springvale: we won’t have a free for all, its too hard on the person presenting
[12:19] Rose Springvale: ask in order please
[12:19] Arria Perreault: we had this issue last term. better to solve it now, instead to bring it later to the SC
[12:20] Rose Springvale: gwyn, do you have a reply ?
[12:20] Arria Perreault: (lawmaking is a long process …)
[12:21] Rose Springvale: the issue in this part is solely whether we want to change to a direct election process. The details are in the next segments
[12:21] Rose Springvale: if we dont’ want to change to direct election, the other parts change in effect
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: raises hand
[12:21] Rose Springvale: Cindy i think you are next
[12:22] Arria Perreault: it would mean that the 2 laws are not valid of the constitutional amendment doesn’t pass?
[12:22] Rose Springvale: that is not what she said. they just have different effect Arria, that’s why they are separate.
[12:22] Rose Springvale: cindy, did you want to comment or shall we move to pip?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: must be afk, Pip?
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: I already commented
[12:23] Rose Springvale: would you like to put it in order?
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: would like a response though
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn also raises hand to reply…
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: if we don’t pass the first one….why bother with the other 2
[12:24] Rose Springvale: go on gwyn
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that at least on Bill #2, there is a definition on when voting ooths are set up etc
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *booths
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that wouldn’t make sense if there is no direct election
[12:24] Cindy Ecksol nods
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing that #2 has that would make sense is the term duration.
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… my suggestion…
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s vote on #1 first,
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and either introduce changes on the term duration only (it would need some rewriting)
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: I think it needs more discussion
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (if #1 voting fails)
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: Term duration was specified as bill #3 earlier
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Pip you are next
[12:26] Pip Torok: no question from me
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: I’m fine with Gwyn’s proposal…just wanted to make sure we weren’t going to waste time voting on 2 and 3 willy nilly if 1 didn’t pass
[12:26] Rose Springvale: thank you, Anyone who has not yet had the floor want to comment?
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies to all…. I thinkI have to review bills #2 and #3 on my notes first lol
[12:26] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:27] Rose Springvale: Mikelo, you want to say more now?
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To excuse myself why I haven’t done this homework yet, I should say that I have crashed several times during the meeting and didn’t have the transcript ready
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thanks to Cindy for sending me a copy of it!)
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: I want to know what the practical upshot of this is
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I still have an amanedment for the point 3
[12:27] Arria Perreault: (I said before)
[12:28] Rose Springvale: okay arria, you didn’t post it, lets let gwyn reply to mikelo
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: If the three are split up,are we being sold a concept without full knowledge of the actual effects?
[12:28] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:28] Pip Torok: but the commission did exactly that, Mikelo
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: For example, will sonia be able to run for chancellor, for example?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: gwyn, you want to respond?
[12:29] Pip Torok: imo this is not retroactive
[12:29] Arria Perreault: retroactive effect?
[12:29] You decline Aug 29: CW Anderson & Jay Ackroyd@VirtuallySpeakingSundays from A group member named Widget Whiteberry.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: i’ve never seen a cds law applied retroactively
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. No, that wouldn’t make any sense.
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SOnia would most certainly be able to run for office again if she wishes!
[12:31] Rose Springvale: does that answer the question?
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: but the single bill before called for limiting back to back terms
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not altogether sure what the current law is, or is there one?
[12:31] Pip Torok: yes but to apply after it is passed
[12:32] Rose Springvale: that can be addressed when and if we consider that though, yes?
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: I just wouldn’t sign a car lease, then decide the details later, is all
[12:33] Rose Springvale: thanks . Arria did you want to make an amendment?
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops. point of order…. i completely forgot…. during the commission meeting, we actually added a 4th point… my deep apologies…. 4. Chancellor vacancies will be filled by a by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
[12:33] Rose Springvale: thanks Gwyn.
[12:33] Arria Perreault: 2. the amendment. I would like to add 3. The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council. The Chancellor cannot have a similar position in an other SL community.
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it was added for consistency; the same thing is on the const. for RA members)
[12:33] Pip Torok: (oh yes … I forgot … the CV !)
[12:33] Rose Springvale: gwyn, is this a friendly amendment?
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: makes sense, gwyn
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Point 4. or Arria’s suggestion?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: arrias suggestion
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I would like to discuss it first!
[12:34] Rose Springvale: arria, you want to talk about it?
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please!
[12:34] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:34] Solomon Mosely: is that meant at the same time or concurnetly?
[12:35] Solomon Mosely: sorry, consecutively
[12:36] Solomon Mosely:
[12:36] Pip Torok: ah! …
[12:36] Arria Perreault: The Chancellor represents the interest of CDS in any negociation with other SL communities. I think he/she is in charge for our foreign affairs. I consider that the Chancellor should not have any conflict of interest
[12:36] Solomon Mosely: is it 6 for one or half a dozen?
[12:36] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. While I’m all for people listing their potential conflicts of interest,
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I think there is even a law for that…
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my concern is that this might become unmanageable in practice.
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I am not talking about owning or renting a house, but having a governmental position
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, well…. what is exactly “a SL community”?
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I know, Arria.
[12:37] Arria Perreault: an community with any kind of goverment
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, then we should add that.
[12:38] Rose Springvale: all communities have some kind of government
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, that’s a tough call
[12:38] Arria Perreault: Roma SPQR and its Senate
[12:38] Rose Springvale: so estate owners
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would a company be seen as a “government”?
[12:38] Rose Springvale: companies
[12:38] Rose Springvale: estate managers
[12:38] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:38] Rose Springvale: we’ll eliminate most of the CDS population
[12:38] Rose Springvale: Sonja would be disqualified
[12:38] Pip Torok: I’d say _any_ cohesive aggregate of avatars …
[12:38] Rose Springvale: as would gwyn, sudane, solomn, etc
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: oh not this, this is the citizen debate
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so it means that I could be excluded for becoming a Chancellor candidate, because I happen to be the general manager for a company that does building in Second Life and OpenSim?
[12:39] Delia Lake is wondering if that could mean a government roll playing part in a gor sim where the CDS would probably not have any negotiations at any time………hmmm
[12:39] Rose Springvale: i think so gwyn
[12:39] Rose Springvale: i think it is very dangerous and we shold let voters decide
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. more complex than that…
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m part of a group that meets every Tuesday in SL.
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And has done so since March 2004
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It doesn’t won land.
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *own
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has no democratic means of electing a ‘leader’
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: the core doesnt have land?
[12:40] Pip Torok: imo we are preempting what should be going through voters minds … I say give them the chance to vot on the basis of _their_ judgment
[12:40] Arria Perreault: at least, all candidates should declare their interests
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nevertheless, I’m one of the officers, and the group is pretty much organised. So…. would that be considered a conflict of interests?
[12:40] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[12:40] Arria Perreault: so poeple know for who they are votiing
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the group HAS met in the CDS in the past)
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I agree arria
[12:40] Arria Perreault: we can add this in the law
[12:41] Rose Springvale: this law, or the conflicts law we are supposedly working on?
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we DO have the requirement for members to post their conflict of interests
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (let me see if I can figure out where that law is )
[12:41] Solomon Mosely: that sounds fine
[12:41] Arria Perreault: the law we will vote today
[12:41] Solomon Mosely: but wasnt the discussion abotu having a direct election or not?
[12:41] Solomon Mosely: and voting on that?
[12:42] Arria Perreault: or the other one (can we change it today?)
[12:42] Rose Springvale: arria has moved an amendment, ther is not a second at this point.
[12:42] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn tell us if it is accepted as a friendly
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I modify my amendment and I say:
[12:42] Solomon Mosely: wait, this is all in the direct election bill?
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: yes, sol….arria is proposing to amend.
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: so far no second I think….
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I think so sol
[12:43] Rose Springvale: this is a proposed amendment, being amended as we speak
[12:43] Arria Perreault: all candidates has to declare their interests (if someone can improve the wording)
[12:43] Cindy Ecksol notes that it needs a second for discussion…..
[12:43] Rose Springvale: lets make sure that isn’t already in the law, waiting for gwyn
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: doesnt this seems like a seperate issue? related, but definately seperate
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I don’t think it’s necessary…. we have that on a bill since 2008: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836&p=11169&hilit=conflict+of+interests#p11169
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. No person who is holding a position as a member or officer of a branch of CDS government may simultaneously hold a position as a member or officer in a different branch of CDS government.
2. All persons holding a position as a member or officer of a branch of CDS government must make a public ‘declaration of interest’ statement to the CDS Forums (or appropriate substititute medium), if they act to approve or reject any action, in their official government role, that they reasonably can conclude would benefit themselves uniquely, as opposed to the general case of benefits that accrue generally to all CDS citizens.
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: this is chancellor eligibility
[12:44] Pip Torok sees it as part and parcel of the job
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so no need for it here….
[12:44] Solomon Mosely: its not
[12:44] Solomon Mosely: do the peeople or ra vote for chancellor? yes or no.
[12:44] Arria Perreault: this is after the election ….
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: I move to end discussion
[12:44] Solomon Mosely: then, who can be chancellor, is a seperate issue
[12:44] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:44] Rose Springvale: on the amendment cindy?
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: amendment did not get a second
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: This bill passed?
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: no discussion required
[12:45] Pip Torok: second
[12:45] Rose Springvale: mikeo, there has been no vote
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: I move to end discussion on Gwyn’s #1
[12:45] Rose Springvale: the motion has been made to end discussion on the original motion and seconded
[12:45] Pip Torok: second
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: No, I mean Jamie’s conflict of interest bill
[12:45] Rose Springvale: all in favor of ending discussion?
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Mikelo… I was trying to get it
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:45] Rose Springvale: on gwyns amendment
[12:45] Rose Springvale: er
[12:45] Rose Springvale: bill
[12:45] Pip Torok: aye
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on ending discussion
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: aye
[12:45] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:45] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: If there is a similar bill, then it’s covered, aye
[12:46] Rose Springvale: chair votes aye as well
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: so now vote to approve gwyn’s amendment?
[12:46] Arria Perreault: This is a law we should implemente now
[12:46] Rose Springvale: we’ll move to vote then
[12:46] Rose Springvale: gwyn, want to post the language in full one more time please?
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: or on the entire #1 as amended by gwyn
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just to recap what is under vote…
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3069
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I’ll copy & paste
[12:46] Rose Springvale: thanks
[12:46] Arria Perreault: we vote only the constitutional change now?
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, nust Bill #1
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *just
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #1 — Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act
Art II, Section 5 on the CDS Constitution – Deleted and replaced with:
1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the SC.
2. The Chancellor will serve a term ending with the election of the next Chancellor.
i]3. The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council.[/i] 4. Chancellor vacancies will be filled by a by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
[12:47] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:47] Rose Springvale: okay, all in favor?
[12:47] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:47] Pip Torok: aye
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:47] Arria Perreault: nay
[12:47] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:48] Solomon Mosely: um, sorry, but it doesnt state by what margin the chancellor wins. is it assumes simple majority?
[12:48] Rose Springvale: not to that solomon
[12:48] Solomon Mosely: ok
[12:48] Rose Springvale: we’ll consider that once we determine this part i’m sure
[12:48] Solomon Mosely: aye
[12:48] Rose Springvale: okay
[12:49] Arria Perreault: there is one 7 days vote
[12:49] Solomon Mosely: somebodys mic is on, i like that
[12:49] Rose Springvale: i vote aye, we are at 6-2 and need 9 to pass, but we do have that many outstanding 7 day votes
[12:49] Solomon Mosely: can we do this in voice?
[12:49] Rose Springvale: no, language and transcripting sol
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:49] Rose Springvale: so … shall we go ahead and discuss the balance?
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Actually there was something neglected on the commission — the voting
[12:49] Rose Springvale: Kas, Keila and Tor all have 7 day votes
[12:50] Arria Perreault: and Muhammand
[12:50] Rose Springvale: of course, he didn’t send to me, but i see he is on forums
[12:50] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:50] Rose Springvale: we need 9 to pass
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i suggest we go ahead with the discussion
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: for #2?
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[12:51] Rose Springvale: yes gwyn?
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: cindy, your mic is on
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: thx
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we ought to decide what we have discussed before. If we approve #2 and #3, but #1 fails, what happens with #2 and #3?
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I note that the commission sadly neglected to determine the voting system for the Chancellor, e.g. it’s simple majority, or absolute majority, etc
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: we can just add a provision to each that if #1 fails then 2 and 3 are null and void
[12:52] Rose Springvale: i think its an important question, as i personally wouldn’t vote for 12 month terms without direct vote
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be more then fine with that
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy’s suggestion.
[12:52] Rose Springvale: oka
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, how about you just introduce #2 with that provision attached?
[12:53] Rose Springvale: your motion, so you can add it
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: since you haven’t posted it here yet
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, posting now….. here it comes, a long sheet of text… hehe
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession. Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
1. (Option B) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term, which start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
2. (Option A) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:53] Rose Springvale: which one lol
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (waaaait)
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: gwyn’s motion
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
3. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: sorry….jumped the gun…didn’t all get there….
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah ok)
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: and you also need to post the last little piece we just discussed
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 4. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[12:54] Rose Springvale: shhh cindy
[12:54] Delia Lake: wouldn’t be a good idea to replace the current sect 5 with 2 & 3 minus 1 but still eliminating the current way of electing a chancellor
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: ok, NOW I second….so that we can discuss :0-)
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:55] Rose Springvale: can we second options? don’t we need to second ONE Of them
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Discussion is open. May I just comment that the commission did not have a consensus on 6 or 12 month terms, so the RA has to pick one choice.
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: no…just to open for discussion…we will amend to “pare down” to final bill
[12:55] Rose Springvale: lol
[12:55] Rose Springvale: fine
[12:55] Rose Springvale: comments?
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[12:55] Solomon Mosely: 12
[12:56] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn present first please
[12:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I made one, but I will add that we ought also to clarify *which* voting methodology we’ll use, e.g. simple majority, Borda, STV. etc)
[12:56] Pip Torok raises hand
[12:56] Rose Springvale: do you have more to report gwyn?
[12:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I’m finished for now.
[12:56] Rose Springvale: okay, cindy
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: I’m in favor of 12 month terms.
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: I think it has the potential to allow a chancellor to settle in and get a completely programs accomplished…
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: Wouldn’t the election be decided the same way as RA seats?
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: without TOO much interference by a six-month election.
[12:57] Rose Springvale: mikelo, cindy has the floor
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: having the chancellor cycle lined up with RA cycle
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: I think will be too much politicis twice a year
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: done, thanks
[12:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:57] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:57] Rose Springvale: solomon?
[12:58] Rose Springvale: must be afk, Pip?
[12:59] Solomon Mosely: oh, i was, pip, please go ahead if you like
[12:59] Rose Springvale: we’ll come back sol
[12:59] Pip Torok: with 12 month terms PLUS the “churn” of new chancellors we have the danger of an inadequate chancellor being in term for 12 months
[13:00] Rose Springvale: not sure i understand churning in this context. will you elaborate?
[13:00] Pip Torok: this will have the affect of exasperating citizens, then provoking apathy
[13:00] Pip Torok: … to the detriment of demoncracy …. done
[13:00] Rose Springvale: what do you mean by churning?
[13:00] Pip Torok: yes .. with term limits there is necessarily a greater amout of “new faces”
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (point of order, and to clarify: this legislation does NOT remove the RA’s right to remove a Chancellor from office with a 2/3 vote, neither removes the veto power that the Chancellor has)
[13:01] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[13:01] Pip Torok: churn means different people not the same “crowd”
[13:01] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you. Mikelo?
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: well, there are several points, which are we discussing now
[13:02] Rose Springvale: anything related to what gwyn posted
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: I’d say Im in favor of terms changing with the RA
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: but forcing no back-to back terms might be disruptive
[13:02] Arria Perreault raises hand
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: especially for 6-month terms
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (another point of order — to be discussed on Bill #3 )
[13:03] Rose Springvale: so you are in favor of long terms mikelo?
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: maybe we could limit how many consecutive instead of forcing staggered terms
[13:03] Rose Springvale: keila welcome, cindy will you give her the text under discussion please?
[13:03] Keila Forager: Hi, thanks..still rezzing
[13:03] Cindy Ecksol: sure..
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops I just boticed I made a huge mistake lol — point 1 on that bil should actually be a separate bill hehe
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *noticed even
[13:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[13:04] Rose Springvale: okay.. do you want to post what you want us to discuss now?
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: And also, I was assuming chancellor elections would be decided like RA ones, right gwyn?
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I withdraw the motion after discussion has started
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: done
[13:04] Rose Springvale: just post the part under discussion currently, we’ll delay the discussion on the later parts
[13:05] Arria Perreault raises hand
[13:05] Rose Springvale: effectively amending your motion,
[13:05] Rose Springvale: okay sol then arria
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For Keila’s sake:
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. (Option A) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new term will start on February 1.
1. (Option B) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaign
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
2. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[13:06] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn
[13:07] Rose Springvale: can we assume the second still applies cindy?
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to suggest that we add another point defining something like: “3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly elections”. This amendment would allow us touse STV if the RA is using STV, and other methods if the RA moves methods, etc.
[13:08] Rose Springvale: does STV work in a single candidate race though?
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea
[13:08] Rose Springvale: lol
[13:08] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[13:08] Rose Springvale: okay..
[13:08] Rose Springvale: do you want to vote on this separately or as a group?
[13:08] Cindy Ecksol: I second gwyn’s amendment
[13:09] Arria Perreault: separate
[13:09] Rose Springvale: okay with the commission ?
[13:09] Pip Torok: separate
[13:09] Arria Perreault: aoption A or B, then the whole
[13:09] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:09] Cindy Ecksol: oh….yes, we DO have to vote on A or B….
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes we do
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:09] Cindy Ecksol: otherwise bill is not exactly valid
[13:09] Rose Springvale: and 4 needs to be separte too i think
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no
[13:10] Cindy Ecksol disagrees on #4
[13:10] Arria Perreault: what is 4?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: stv
[13:10] Solomon Mosely: i dont see ahy there is only one week of campaigning
[13:10] Rose Springvale: lets go back to order, we’ll get confused
[13:10] Rose Springvale: okay, solomon, is that the point you wanted to raise? you have the floor
[13:11] Solomon Mosely: yes, well one. i am in favor of the 12 month terms.
[13:11] Solomon Mosely: that makes sense, there is so much to do, and things tend to take a while in here
[13:12] Rose Springvale: finished?
[13:12] Solomon Mosely: i think that 2 terms in a row should be left as an option, but its not a deal breaker for me
[13:12] Solomon Mosely: i just dont see why when the candidates submit two weeks before polls close, they cant start campaigning then
[13:12] Solomon Mosely: and the direct election is a no-brainer. it’s how it should be
[13:13] Keila Forager: I agree Sol
[13:13] Solomon Mosely: done
[13:13] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:13] Rose Springvale: Arria is next i think
[13:13] Solomon Mosely nods
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn signs in to the queue to answer Sol in turn
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I just want to be sure of the procedure of vote: I am fine with A or B, then 1-3, the 4 separate
[13:14] Rose Springvale: sound reasonable Gwyn?
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: point of order, there is not 1-3 + 4
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but 1-2 + 3
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:14] Rose Springvale: and yes, i’m sorry, should have given you time to reply to sol
[13:14] Arria Perreault: and 4?
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is no 4.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: stv is 3?
[13:15] Arria Perreault: limitation of mandate is 3?
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: shall I copy & paste again? Yes STV is 3
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll copy and paste again — it’s better
[13:15] Rose Springvale: better to be clear, i agree
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. (Option A) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new term will start on February 1.
1. (Option B) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaign
[13:15] Arria Perreault: where is the limitation of mandate?
[13:16] Arria Perreault: can you make a notecard with the whole?
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
2. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly elections”. This amendment would allow us touse STV if the RA is.
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bad copy & paste
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly elections
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [just that≠
[13:17] Rose Springvale: term limits aern’t part of this bill correct?
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: THEN there is a new bill, to be proposed and discussed AFTERWARDS.
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[13:17] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:17] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re not. My mistake. I withdrew the motion
[13:17] Rose Springvale: does that answer your question Arria?
[13:17] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:17] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:17] Rose Springvale: okay, gwyn do you want to reply to sol?
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I may just comments something to SOl….
[13:18] Rose Springvale: ;0
[13:18] Rose Springvale: ;0)
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The always insane calculations of the campaigning times give me a headache every time,
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but it’s supposed to be aligned precisely with what the RA has now.
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The difference being that the RA laws are spread among 3 different places (constitution +2 laws I think)
[13:18] Arria Perreault has an other dummy question about 3
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: while I TRIED to put the same words for the Chancellor
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I made a mistake,
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s not intentional
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that teh RA *now* only has 1 week for campaigning,
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 1 week for open pools
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *polls
[13:19] Cindy Ecksol: ok…I’m not seeing the difference between 1A and 1B
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: isn’t this supposed to be about term lenght?
[13:20] Arria Perreault: 6 oe 12 months
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: either six months or 12 months?
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhhh 1B has ity to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
[13:20] Solomon Mosely: i was just wondering why campaigning couldn’t begin when the SC posted hte names
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: while 1A has ity to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1.
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: eeek
[13:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: ok…never mind! it’s just confusing as worded….
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what’s wrong with my copy & paste today????
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suggestion
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s remove “The new terms…”
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: it doesn’t say “six months” or “12 months”
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then we don’t have a problem
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I agree with Cindy
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And move it to the (yet to be proposed ) Bill #3
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: it’s in the last sentence….where you specify JUST Feb 1 or Feb 1 and July 1
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be fine in deleting that sentence!
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: move we vote on 1A vs. 1B
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One less problem hehe
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: without changing the text
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok wait
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: as long as everyone understands this is a vote for either 6 month term or 12 month term
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh. Nothing like thinking
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer actually that to be on Bill #3
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: welll…what then, gwyn?
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: that’s what it SAYS!
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I suggest that there are NO options on Bill #1
[13:22] Rose Springvale: the term? so what are we voting on with this Gwyn?
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #2
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: #2 without 1A or 1B?
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be a happier person if a) I had copy & paste working and b) no typos
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry
[13:22] Rose Springvale: is this a change in law?
[13:23] Rose Springvale: or does it mirror the existing
[13:23] Cindy Ecksol: are you asking us to amend?
[13:23] Arria Perreault: I second your proposal, Gwyn
[13:23] Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
[13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me TRY, just TRY, to get it CORRECTLY copied and pasted WITHOUT the options.
[13:23] Rose Springvale: please
[13:23] Pip Torok: please!
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
2. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Repr
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: esentative Assembly election.
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, much easier.
[13:25] Arria Perreault still have a dummy question for 3
[13:25] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[13:25] Rose Springvale: arria
[13:26] Arria Perreault: what happens if the RA changes the methodology for the election of the RA and that this method is not compatible with the election of a single person?
[13:26] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point
[13:26] Keila Forager: But it needs to be, what if there needs to be a by-election for just one RA seat?
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have no choice but toe xplicitly name a method. I agree.
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria is right
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, STV works for that, keila…
[13:27] Rose Springvale: lets see what else comes up while we ponder that. Cindy?
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there MIGHT be methods that do NOT work.
[13:27] Cindy Ecksol: Two things:
a. you forgot the last plank as posted above:
4. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true!
[13:27] Cindy Ecksol: b. I do not think that it is appropriate to pass this without specifying a term. We can vote term limits (the next bill) without specifying a term if we like.
[13:27] Keila Forager: Then they shouldn’t be used for RA either, in case of a one seat by-election
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: but term needs to be specified here.
[13:28] Rose Springvale: finished Cindy?
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I think term limits can vary with term duration
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: yes, thanks.
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: yes, mikelo, they can….
[13:28] Rose Springvale: Keila did you want to speak?
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: and truthfully, I’d like to put the term limits in here too so we don’t have
[13:28] Keila Forager: no..that was it
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: “bill proliferation”
[13:28] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:28] Rose Springvale: Mikelo?
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I also find it confusing to vote on different parts, although discussing in parts has been helpful
[13:29] Rose Springvale: anyone who hasn’t spoken, then i have a comment and will turn back to gwyn
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: I think term duration and limits should be chosen together
[13:29] Rose Springvale: that’s what we determined after last week
[13:30] Rose Springvale: sorry, didn’t mean to cut you off
[13:30] Rose Springvale: finished?
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:30] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[13:30] Rose Springvale: okay, my comment is that i don’t believe that a single seat election is appropriate for STV, because the campaign strategy will simply be, only vote for one
[13:31] Rose Springvale: i think it is more clear and will stand the test of changes in RA election methodology to be simple majority
[13:31] Rose Springvale: STV is confusing….we’ve had no volunteers to explain it
[13:31] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[13:31] Rose Springvale: for the chancellor election where there can be only one winner, seems crazy to me
[13:31] Rose Springvale: done. Cindy
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, STV with just choosing one
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn signs in for the queue too
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: is exactly the same as a “majority vote”
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: raises hand
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: so no worries….
[13:32] Rose Springvale: done cindy?
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: we can do whatever RA does and not have more legislation to confuse
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: done
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: thanks
[13:32] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[13:33] Pip Torok agrees with cindy
[13:33] Rose Springvale: Gwyn are you here?
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes soprry
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m a slwotyper!
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I believe that perhaps the commision was a bit premature in trying to avoid the discussion of term duration and limits
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And STV certainly works for one seat, BUT…
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria is right, we might change it to a method that doesn’t work for one seat
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest that we merge Bill #2 and Bill #3
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and discuss it all lol
[13:35] Rose Springvale: are you finished for now?
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, I have a proposed rewrite of everything, if people are fine with it ))
[13:35] Arria Perreault: if we vote some articles separetely
[13:35] Cindy Ecksol: I second Gwyn’s suggestion
[13:36] Arria Perreault: the way we elect the chancellor would work with 6 months and 12 months terms
[13:36] Rose Springvale: I agree Arria, but lets see what the group feels. all in favor of amending the bill under consideration to combine 2 and 3 (process adn term)
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyone objects dramatically against it? If so, I’ll withdraw the motion *again* (hey, this is fun!!) and am prepared to submit a new one!
[13:36] Arria Perreault: the way we elect the chancellor doesn’t interfer with terms limits
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: I agree
[13:36] Pip Torok: aye
[13:36] Rose Springvale: with the motion or arria mikelo
[13:36] Rose Springvale: we are in vote now
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:37] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:37] Keila Forager: aye
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:37] Timo Gufler: aye
[13:37] Solomon Mosely: aye
[13:37] Rose Springvale: thank you, motion carries
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[13:38] Rose Springvale: gwyn will you post the text we are working on please
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so…. I withdraw Bill #2 and #3
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and present a new combination of both
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it still has the options in)
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here it goes, cross your fingers….
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
(Option B) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold at most two terms in succession.
(Option C) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term.
(Option D) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
(Option B) Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew !
[13:39] Rose Springvale: yay!
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: yay!
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: that’s it!
[13:39] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:40] Rose Springvale: discussion open again…
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lots of options, woot
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: are we ready to start working through voting for the options?
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: I’m about talked out…..
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: and need to go to the farmer’s market
[13:40] Rose Springvale: probably the easiest is to have the commission propose one
[13:40] Rose Springvale: then let us discuss that set.. amending if necessary
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: Are the C,D options without term limits?
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: I´ve a question to No 3
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, MikelO!
[13:41] Rose Springvale: go ahead Lilith
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: are this the same rules as for running for RA?
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: means you have to be in the CDS for a while and pay your tier
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: or just ANY citizen?
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: I would assume so, lilith, but good point
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lilith, to the best of my knowledge… yes! If there is any mistake that you have found, please let’s correct it. The commission intention is that the rules are exactly the same, yes.
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: good
[13:42] Rose Springvale: i think the election rules apply to any elected office… delia?
[13:42] Delia Lake: it doesn’t say that
[13:42] Rose Springvale: kk, thanks
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we add 7. All further legislation applicable to elections will also apply to the Chancellor election.
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just to make sure?
[13:43] Rose Springvale: or maybe
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: For option B, does it mean that a person would have to take at least one term off before applying again?
[13:44] Rose Springvale: any citizen eligible to run for the Representative Assemply may run for chancellor
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: Good idea, gwyn
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Rose!
[13:44] Delia Lake: people declaring for RA have to be citizens in good standing, qualified to vote at the deadline for declaration
[13:45] Rose Springvale: yes
[13:45] Rose Springvale: i don’t mind a catch all number 7 too, but this will come up
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so…. 7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.
[13:45] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, maybe it’s dangerous. If we reinstaure the 10% rule for the RA, it would be appropriate for the Chancellor (just an example)
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm!
[13:46] Arria Perreault: it would NOT be *
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[13:46] Rose Springvale: we can carver that out if we reinstate that
[13:46] Arria Perreault: single election are special cases
[13:46] Rose Springvale: no need to anticipate all the changes that might be made in the future, let the legislature then deal with the effect?
[13:46] Delia Lake: it would make sense to require that anyone running be a citizen for 30 days at least
[13:46] Arria Perreault: it was just an example, Rose
[13:47] Rose Springvale: so you’d have no catch all Arria?
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: I agree Delia
[13:47] Pip Torok agrees with Delia
[13:47] Rose Springvale: (i think the law says 28 days lol)
[13:47] Arria Perreault: I agree with Delia
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 28 days for consistency
[13:48] Keila Forager: 28 days is 4 weeks
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I fear that we might have to start listing things from an infinte number of bills ….
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it was a mess to integrate 2
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d prefer a catch-all for now, and handle exceptions if and when they occur.
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: That seems safe enough
[13:49] Rose Springvale: along with the qualification language or alone Gwyn?
[13:50] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:50] Delia Lake: actually the length of time should include at least 1 mandatory tier payment period
[13:50] Keila Forager: raises hand
[13:51] Rose Springvale: go ahead Keila
[13:51] Delia Lake: otherwise we could have candidtates who would run out if not elected
[13:51] Pip Torok: good point
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d really have something like: “7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.” We could add: “unless explicitly excluded” I suppose…
[13:51] Rose Springvale: given the statutory timeing, i think it has one Delia
[13:51] Keila Forager: What about a commision to look at the election legistation and make sure it is worded to encompass all CDS elections
[13:51] Rose Springvale: that’s what this one is
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re rtrying, Keila
[13:51] Keila Forager: then it wouldn’t have to be a part of separate election bills
[13:52] Rose Springvale: i thnk gwyns language works, but i’d add that part about eligible to run for RA as well
[13:52] Rose Springvale: our tier is always due on the 7th of the month now, and our election timing will be mid month due to the 168 hour rule
[13:52] Keila Forager: I guess I mean a bill or law that says who is eligible to run
[13:52] Cindy Ecksol: lol! I’m thinking we need a commission to review any legislation that comes out of commissions :-0
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was suggested once!
[13:53] Rose Springvale: i’d entertain a motion on this legislation, seems like we are pretty much talked out, and we have time for a vote before we adjourn if you want
[13:53] Keila Forager: Seems to me it would be easier than trying to add to more than one bill
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: yes a commission review board!!! (jk)
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: move to close discussion and vote
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: at least on #1
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: second
[13:54] Rose Springvale: lets see the final language of the bill.. .only the whole bill is on the floor
[13:54] Pip Torok: second
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait …
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: rose, we can’t adopt the WHOLE bill…
[13:54] Rose Springvale: you have to choose options lol
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what about the options?
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: righT!!
[13:54] Rose Springvale: gwyn propose one
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: have to pare it down
[13:54] Rose Springvale: one set
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I propose ….
[13:54] Rose Springvale: your choice!
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol counts “Eeny meeny….”
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: second
[13:55] Rose Springvale: wait
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you :^)
[13:55] Rose Springvale: is taht all you want to vote on?
[13:55] Rose Springvale: for now?
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: no….the rest of the bill too.
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: no options in the rest
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[13:55] Keila Forager: what about the rest of the options?
[13:55] Rose Springvale: lets have it all posted please, we have other language changes
[13:55] Arria Perreault: but separately
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: Could we take an informal vote on which option to include?
[13:55] Rose Springvale: no one type but gwyn for a moment
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I suppose we can vote on each possible combination lol
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, i was thinking on that, mikelo
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if that’s ok….
[13:56] Arria Perreault: we said we will vote separately
[13:56] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: A-D seems to be the main point
[13:56] Rose Springvale: lets talk about options for five minutes
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[13:56] Rose Springvale: and term limits
[13:56] Rose Springvale: just tell what you think, if you have an opinion please
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: I think there needs to be some limitation of terms
[13:57] Rose Springvale: thanks. do you like 6 or 12 month?
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: I like 2 terms a 6month best
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: I did have a question about B, does it mean a person can take a term off, then apply again?
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My reason for supporting Option A is that historically, a Chancellor is always in power 12 months, but then it’s really too much demanding them to stay even longer… so Option A is actually implementing in law what’s happening anyway.
[13:57] Keila Forager: Ilike option B
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ye, Mikelo
[13:57] Arria Perreault: I am in favor of short terms and against terms limits, so the citizen choose how much time a chancellor stays
[13:58] Rose Springvale: others?
[13:58] Mikelo Serevi: I like 6 month terms, to match the RA terms
[13:58] Arria Perreault: he/she has to be good to stay one year ;_)
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: two years are a pretty long time in SL
[13:58] Pip Torok: I’m with Arria and Mikelo
[13:58] Rose Springvale: they don’t agree pip
[13:58] Rose Springvale: arria wants no limits, mikelo does
[13:58] Pip Torok: oh!!
[13:59] Lilith Ivory giggles
[13:59] Arria Perreault: we both want 6 months terms
[13:59] Solomon Mosely: why does it matter to match the ra terms?
[13:59] Rose Springvale: i like 12 month terms, dont’ care about limits
[13:59] Pip Torok: (sorry … meant Lilth and mikelo … damn my eyes)
[13:59] Cindy Ecksol: 12 months terms, term limits.
[13:59] Rose Springvale: because it is hard to get a good program going in 6 months
[13:59] Arria Perreault: my argument is: the chancellor has to be good to stay. it’s better than removing him after 6 months
[14:00] Rose Springvale: no idea how we resolve this lol
[14:00] Solomon Mosely: yes, exactly, so thats why 12 is better, forget the ra terms
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: It seems more cohesive to have RA and chancellor elected at the same time
[14:00] Solomon Mosely: what?
[14:00] Rose Springvale: okay.
[14:00] Rose Springvale: we’ve got clear lack of consensus
[14:00] Rose Springvale: and a motion by the commission
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:00] Arria Perreault: a new RA will maybe start by removing the chancellor
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[14:01] Keila Forager: if 12 months chancellor elected with one RA and if 6 months, elected with every RA
[14:01] Cindy Ecksol: maybe they will arria….but maybe not.
[14:01] Rose Springvale: so i think we will go ahead and vote on the proposal on the floor
[14:01] Rose Springvale: does anyone want to second?
[14:01] Cindy Ecksol: the US Congress doesn’t remove the US President every 2 years
[14:01] Arria Perreault: yes, but removing is a rude process
[14:01] Arria Perreault: the CDS RA did once
[14:02] Cindy Ecksol: it has been seconded…by me
[14:02] Rose Springvale: okay. lets call the vote…
[14:02] Pip Torok: please specify choices!
[14:02] Rose Springvale: the motion on the floor is for single 12 month terms
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just on the term duration & limit, right?
[14:02] Rose Springvale: yes
[14:02] Arria Perreault: do we vote article by article?
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[14:02] Mikelo Serevi: yes, what are we voting for?
[14:02] Rose Springvale: just on this part
[14:02] Cindy Ecksol: no, the whole bill….
[14:03] Cindy Ecksol: can’t vote on “just part” or we could have voted 1A/B/C/D
[14:03] Rose Springvale: this only needs a simple majority
[14:03] Rose Springvale: the commission put on the floor only this one part
[14:03] Mikelo Serevi: We could wind up passing more than one if we vote one at a time
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for now
[14:03] Rose Springvale: gwyn can you repaste?
[14:03] Rose Springvale: let her type for a moment
[14:03] Keila Forager: I agree Mikelo
[14:03] Rose Springvale: only one proposal is on the floor
[14:03] Arria Perreault: sorry, I don’t understand the whole
[14:03] Cindy Ecksol: WHAT proposal???
[14:04] Rose Springvale: if you will be patient, gwyn will post it
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: I thought I was seconding gwyn’s bill with 1A and 2A
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: if not, I withdraw y second
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Vote on: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what I had posted!
[14:04] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: and the rest ofthe bill>????
[14:04] Rose Springvale: is your second applicable cindy?
[14:04] Rose Springvale: no more now
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: no.
[14:04] Rose Springvale: just this
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: not unless the rest of the bill is included
[14:04] Rose Springvale: okay anyone else want to second?
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It comes next after this
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: this is not complete
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: cannot vote on it separately
[14:05] Rose Springvale: we agreed to do it piece by piece… sigh
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I wonder if this is also a cultural thing
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: If we assume the rest of it is included, on this case
[14:05] Rose Springvale: we need to keep it clear
[14:05] Keila Forager: What if both pass?
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: if we’re doing it piece by piece, let’s vote on 1A/B/C/D
[14:05] Rose Springvale: no no no
[14:05] Arria Perreault: if we say no, the other option is valid?
[14:05] Solomon Mosely: i second
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: etc….
[14:05] Rose Springvale: the rest of the bill .. thank you solomno
[14:05] Rose Springvale: we have a motion that has been seconded
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (2 A follows by 1A; you can’t have 2B with 1A)
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: right….
[14:05] Rose Springvale: the balance of the bill will be next
[14:05] Rose Springvale: for now
[14:05] Arria Perreault: or we loose all the work on the other articles?
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: ok….fine.
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: go for it.
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if you say no, you have topropose a different motion
[14:06] Arria Perreault: please, one question
[14:06] Rose Springvale: please vote on 12 month single terms
[14:06] Rose Springvale: all in favor, say aye
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: problem is that this will not create a bill…it’s just a “preference option”
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: we need to amend to make a bill
[14:06] Rose Springvale: no cindy, this is a bill
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, just a preferemce option)
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …which is a bill
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: see what I mean??
[14:07] Rose Springvale: no more ayes?
[14:07] Cindy Ecksol: it is meaningless by itslef….or dangerous!
[14:07] Rose Springvale: cindy pleae
[14:07] Cindy Ecksol: abstain
[14:07] Rose Springvale: we have to move forward somehow!
[14:07] Arria Perreault: nay
[14:07] Pip Torok: abstain
[14:07] Rose Springvale: other votes?
[14:07] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: it wasn’t really a bill…
[14:08] Rose Springvale: so your vote is nay?
[14:08] Keila Forager: sorry, nay
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[14:08] Rose Springvale: motion fails
[14:08] Pip Torok: can i change my vote to nay?
[14:08] Cindy Ecksol: I have a motion
[14:08] Pip Torok: (too late … ok)
[14:08] Timo Gufler:
[14:08] Rose Springvale: okay
[14:08] Rose Springvale: cindy
[14:08] Solomon Mosely: and real quick, this is on 1a and 2a?
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to introduce Gwyn’s bill COMPLETE with 1A and 2A…..
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: plus 3-7
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: do I have a second?
[14:09] Rose Springvale: please paste it all
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and possibly 8, we forgot something.
[14:09] Rose Springvale: you are out of order cindy
[14:09] Rose Springvale: tha’ts my job
[14:09] Rose Springvale: please paste what you are proposing
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: workiing on it …sec
[14:10] Rose Springvale: for those of you wondering, this will again be the 12 month, term limit option
[14:10] Delia Lake looks around for a softer seat….
[14:10] Rose Springvale: with all the other language attachec
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi raises hand
[14:11] Rose Springvale: yes?
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi: Could we vote our preference instead of aye/nay?
[14:11] Rose Springvale: if someon else has another motion, first one on the screen with language and a second gets the vote first
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: ok….here we go….
[14:11] Rose Springvale: we did that mikelo
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: darn, won’t paste….
[14:11] Keila Forager: We did?
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: well, we discussed it
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: have to do in sections….
[14:12] Rose Springvale: no consensus
[14:12] Pip Torok wd find that helpful is its practical
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: Well, it could be a way of choosing which option to include
[14:12] Rose Springvale: let cindy paste it all
[14:12] Rose Springvale: we choose via motions
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: [13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.”
8. In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after (less than half the term), a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: ok, that’s all of it…
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: doesn’t fit in one paste
[14:13] Rose Springvale: do we have a second?
[14:13] Pip Torok: second
[14:14] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:14] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[14:14] Arria Perreault: nay
[14:14] Pip Torok: nay
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:14] Keila Forager: nay
[14:14] Timo Gufler: nay
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:15] Rose Springvale: motion fails
[14:15] Arria Perreault: I have a motion
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:15] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:15] Rose Springvale: go ahead, please give her time to completely post
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: ok…out of time, I ust leave
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: 7 day vote, please
[14:15] Rose Springvale: sigh
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: bye!
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye
[14:16] Arria Perreault: bye
[14:16] Timo Gufler: bye bye
[14:16] Arria Perreault: 1. Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold .
2. Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[14:17] Arria Perreault: + 3-8
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok I second that too
[14:17] Pip Torok: ??
[14:17] Rose Springvale: wait
[14:17] Rose Springvale: 1. is not complete
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah… true
[14:17] Pip Torok: exactly
[14:17] Arria Perreault: 1. Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term.
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly. I second that amendment.
[14:18] Rose Springvale: okay
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: copy & paste sucks
[14:18] Mikelo Serevi: Not a good copy/paste day
[14:18] Rose Springvale: all in favor? this is no term limits, 6 month elections
[14:18] Pip Torok: I need the complete motion in front of me
[14:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Pip
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I paste
[14:18] Arria Perreault: 1. Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term.
[14:18] Solomon Mosely: nay
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 2. Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: 6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: 7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election
[14:20] Rose Springvale: before we vote
[14:20] Rose Springvale: oh sorry
[14:20] Rose Springvale: 8.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: 8. In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after (less than half the term), a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.
[14:20] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:20] Arria Perreault: done
[14:20] Rose Springvale: before we vote, i’ll correct my error
[14:21] Pip Torok: (thank you, Arria!:)
[14:21] Rose Springvale: the vote on the last election has not officially failed until the 7 day votes are counted. I’ll register my vote as yay on that
[14:21] Rose Springvale: but lets proceed to vote on this motion so we will know if either passes by next week
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, true. However, subsequent motions that get voted “aye” will override the previous one.
[14:22] Rose Springvale: yes
[14:22] Rose Springvale: so
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which might be fun to watch in 7 days
[14:22] Rose Springvale: hehe
[14:22] Rose Springvale: so
[14:22] Rose Springvale: 6 month, no term limits
[14:22] Rose Springvale: all in favor
[14:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:22] Solomon Mosely: nay
[14:22] Lilith Ivory: nay
[14:22] Keila Forager: Nay
[14:22] Pip Torok: aye
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye (hehe — to be honest, I don’t really care about that…)
[14:22] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:22] Solomon Mosely: nay
[14:22] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:22] Rose Springvale: lol
[14:22] Rose Springvale: only one vote sol
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: did i say nay?
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: twice?
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: nay?
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi: d’ oh
[14:23] Rose Springvale: we have 5 in favor, 4 opposed
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, you did say nay twice
[14:23] Rose Springvale: wiat
[14:24] Rose Springvale: i abstain so whatever that makes the count lol
[14:24] Arria Perreault: did Pip vote?
[14:24] Pip Torok: yes
[14:24] Timo Gufler: yes he did
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he voted aye
[14:24] Keila Forager: he did
[14:24] Rose Springvale: do we want to propose the last motion in case neither of these pass?
[14:24] Rose Springvale: then we can be finished
[14:25] Delia Lake is wondering if this version means that candidates for Chancellor do not need to be citizens or did she miss something in the crash………
[14:25] Rose Springvale: or shall we roll that to next week?
[14:25] Keila Forager: Sure I have a motion
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6 month terms, with 2 limits?
[14:25] Rose Springvale: okay keila
[14:25] Keila Forager: (Option B) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold at most two terms in succession.
(Option B) Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[14:25] Mikelo Serevi: I think the body of the bill is identical in all cases
[14:25] Keila Forager: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[14:25] Keila Forager: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.”
8. In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after (less than half the term), a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.
[14:26] Keila Forager: done
[14:26] Rose Springvale: thank you keila
[14:26] Rose Springvale: this is six month terms, limited to two consecutive terms
[14:26] Rose Springvale: all in favor
[14:26] Keila Forager: aye
[14:26] Pip Torok: aye
[14:26] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:26] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:26] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:26] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:27] Solomon Mosely: AYE!
[14:27] Rose Springvale: wow
[14:27] Rose Springvale: we did it!
[14:27] Keila Forager: I should have gone first..hehe
[14:27] Rose Springvale: congratulations
[14:27] Pip Torok: eureka!
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow indeed! we could have saved 45 minutes!
[14:27] Arria Perreault:
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keila <3
[14:27] Rose Springvale: motion carries unanimously (adding my aye) at least here
[14:27] Keila Forager raises hand
[14:27] Rose Springvale: NOW could we have a motion to adjourn?
[14:28] Arria Perreault: motion to adjourn
[14:28] Rose Springvale: oh rats yes Keila?
[14:28] Pip Torok: so move
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Arria after Keila has her say
[14:28] Keila Forager: I understand there was a vote for direct chancellor elections
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah. yes.
[14:28] Keila Forager: and my vote is aye
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: great!!!
[14:28] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:28] Keila Forager: done
[14:29] Rose Springvale: motion moved and seconded to adjourn all in favor
[14:29] Keila Forager: aye
[14:29] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:29] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:29] Pip Torok: aye
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:29] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you all, i know it was a tough meeting, and confusing, but this is not easy legislation. Big applause for gwyn for getting us through it
[14:29] Keila Forager: If that last one didn’t pass I was about to start shooting arrows..LOL
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: yay!
[14:29] Mikelo Serevi: Thx gwyn
[14:30] Keila Forager: Yes, thanks Gwyn..
[14:30] Arria Perreault applauds Gwyn
[14:30] Lilith Ivory applauds Gwyn

Permalink.

RA Meeting 18 September 2010

Transcript, RA meeting September 18, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:33 am
[9:00] Rose Springvale: Thanks for coming everyone. We are open for citizens concerns… smiles
[9:00] Keila Forager: today we are going to learn to make stones , flower and a cap
[9:01] Rose Springvale: smiles a keila
[9:01] Rose Springvale: tempting!
[9:01] Rose Springvale: Rosie, thanks for all your work on Oktoberfest!
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn is willing to learn
[9:01] Rose Springvale: we are on the record now btw
[9:01] Rosie Gray smiles: you’re very welcome
[9:01] Keila Forager: Yes Rosie, the marketplatz is awesome
[9:01] Rosie Gray: thanks Keila
[9:02] Rose Springvale: smiles. anyone have any concerns? I’ll note we are quorate now, so officially the meeting is open, As you know we transcript the meetings
[9:02] Rosie Gray: I have a concern
[9:03] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:03] Mikelo Serevi: oops, sorry kas, still rezzing
[9:03] Rosie Gray: just wondering why it’s so laggy here right now
[9:03] Kaseido Quandry: np!
[9:03] Rose Springvale: Ok Rosie. Hi Arria
[9:03] Rosie Gray: you can hardly walk
[9:03] Rose Springvale: SL is messy today.. i logged on with “no groups”
[9:03] Keila Forager: Oh, give me a minute and I can tell you Rosie..LOL When to a sim stats and performance class yesterday
[9:03] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and I hope i don’t just loose all my clothes in this change.
[9:04] Rosie Gray: I think that’s only useful if you have the permissions to view them Keila
[9:04] Rose Springvale raises eyebrow…
[9:04] Keila Forager: Nope……
[9:04] Rose Springvale: you lose your clothes often do you Tor?
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:04] Mikelo Serevi: I heard phoenix can drop your clothes for you
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:05] Keila Forager: ctrl + shift +1
[9:05] Keila Forager: will give viewer and sim stats
[9:05] Rosie Gray: ah thanks!
[9:05] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:05] Rose Springvale: maybe Keila will have to give us all the short course
[9:06] Mikelo Serevi: I’m having some net problems today, so I’d like 7 day if I suddenly vanish
[9:06] Rose Springvale: any other concerns to address now?
[9:06] Keila Forager: and the sim is running at close to “full speed” , so it’s probably the viewer..at least it is mine
[9:06] Rose Springvale: ok Mikelo
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we legislate to abolish lag? hehe
[9:06] Rose Springvale: sure , but you can fight the implementation battle
[9:06] Tor Karlsvalt: second on that Gwyn
[9:06] Keila Forager: My class gave ideas to make it less
[9:07] Keila Forager: Will let you all know when the nexxt one is
[9:07] Pip Torok: ah… can I have y class notes then??!!
[9:07] Rose Springvale: i have some notecards that have been developed over time on that too.
[9:07] Mikelo Serevi: no more sexy hairs?
[9:07] Rosie Gray: eh?
[9:07] Mikelo Serevi: for the lag, er nm
[9:07] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn pretends not to have listened.
[9:08] Rose Springvale: i think it is the resize scripts that contributes to lag…. supposedly you can delete them, but most of us don’t
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, i’m looking fiward to *meshed* hair…
[9:08] Rose Springvale: my hair is meshed every morning….
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Rose… I have a lot of trouble deleting those resize scripts
[9:08] Keila Forager: You can have lag with out any scripts..but this is a discussion for another time..LOL
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rose!
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: that is bad, but i think much of that is on your own computer
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Keila
[9:08] Rosie Gray: they are a terrible nuisance, and completely unnecessary
[9:08] Keila Forager: That was something I just learned
[9:09] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks Keila.
[9:09] Rose Springvale: Any other concerns of citizens? we’ll make a note to do some research on the lag perhaps
[9:09] Keila Forager: I can maybe arrange a class if you llike
[9:09] Pip Torok: does Gwyn have a blog?? )
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew… that would be a lot of homework…. some sims (CN, NFS…) would need to be totally rebuilt if we wished to limit lag…
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sometimes, pip
[9:10] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve found these sims to be mostly lag free, except at gatherings
[9:10] Tor Karlsvalt: well we should work on NFS.
[9:10] Keila Forager: Maybe , maybe not Gwyn
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should yes.
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: too many layers of alpha textures there!
[9:11] Keila Forager: It’s the size of the textures
[9:11] Pip Torok: “where 2 or 3 are gathered together, there you have lag! ….”
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Pip!
[9:11] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[9:11] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘CDS RA Agenda 9/18/10’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip I thought that was God.
[9:11] Keila Forager: get rid of the fog..
[9:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: sorry
[9:11] Pip Torok: no that LL, Creator of LAG!
[9:11] Rose Springvale: smiles. if there are no other concerns, we’ll go on with the agenda…
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Any additions or changes to the agenda? there were no 7 day issues from last meeting i don’t think
[9:12] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Final Recommendations for the Election Commission’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a question, Ms LRA…
[9:13] Rose Springvale: ok
[9:13] Mikelo Serevi: no, it was a short meeting, it seemed
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one of the topics for today is about “Term Limits2
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that had been settled already?
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or is that a new discussion?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: i think this was on the RA portion gwyn
[9:13] Rose Springvale: we settled chancellor
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m enlightened now, thanks
[9:14] Rose Springvale: and thank you for the segue… we’ll turn to the commission report, and you are up
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: already? ouchie
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *flexes fingers*
[9:14] Rose Springvale: if you need time to refresh, we can come back
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I was just joking lol
[9:15] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, campaigning act, which has been tabled
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the commission did meet just on that topic
[9:15] Rose Springvale: do you have a notecard you’d like distributed on that one?
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… wait sure
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good idea
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:16] Rose Springvale: the one in the box was the first draft i think
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:16] Rose Springvale: if you give it to me, i’ll put it here
[9:16] Rose Springvale: there*
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: version 2 is here – viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3100 but I’ll be happy to copy & paste it into a notecard
[9:16] Rose Springvale: go on, i’ll do it
[9:16] Keila Forager: yes please, if I open an outside link I’ll crash
[9:17] Pip Torok: (know the feeling, Keila … )
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Shared with Rose.
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is some initial blah blah,
[9:18] Rose Springvale: in the box.
[9:18] Rose Springvale:
[9:18] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Election Commission on Campaigning Act – proposal 2’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is mostly to give the esteemed RA members a feeling that this was not one of the most consensual issues.
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First… there are two opposing views, even on small groups:
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) No limits on campaigning shwatsoever
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Heavy restrictions, closely overseen
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s hard to write a proposal that takes these opposing views into account
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, solution 2 requires someone to oversee,
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND it also requires someone to *enforce*
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was felt that citizens participating in elections,
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either RA or Exec,
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: might be biased…
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we’d need a non-elected branch to oversee the campaigning.
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, we just have one: the SC.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, our Dean has been clear that the role of campaigning overseing is NOT part of teh SC’s attributions as per teh Constitution.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To make things more complex,
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: some things like signs, respecting Covenants, etc. are clearly the province of the Executive
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s a mess hehe
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We finally came up with two suggestions.
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Formally invite the SC to meet with the RA and discuss boundaries and potential overlapping on roles,
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that we could separate areas clearly
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Suggest that either the SC does the overseeing/enforcement OR a future commission, duly appointed for that specific purpose.
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is, in a nutshell, a resumed version of what you have in the notecard
[9:23] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Plus the actual proposed text for the bill, of course…
[9:23] Rose Springvale: are you finished and ready for questions Gwyn?
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m finished for now…
[9:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: much obliged
[9:24] Rose Springvale: okay. thanks. Arria?
[9:25] Arria Perreault: I am very curious to know the arguments of the people who wanted strong restrictions in campaigning in a place like CDS based on democratic rules
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Arria. Fair question!
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Merchants. A very “dense” campaigning season would scare visitors away from shops.
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, tourism would hurt too
[9:26] Keila Forager: what visitors..LOL
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 2) Fear of excessive spamming
[9:26] Solomon Mosely: lol
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Keila.
[9:26] Tor Karlsvalt wonders who is here to be scared
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t kill the messenger, I’m just forwarding the message
[9:26] Rose Springvale: smiles. Lets keep some order
[9:27] Arria Perreault: interesting … thank you
[9:27] Keila Forager: You are correct provided we had visitors and tourism to scare away
[9:27] Keila Forager: Sorry
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, those two points were the ones most quoted. Under 2 is implied “people that will have access to ‘special’ groups and are able to spam, while other candidates might not, etc
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: ?
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are a LOT of groups in the CDS, Tor, and not all are under government control.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: any other questions? (i have a comment too)
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: i have
[9:28] Rose Springvale: go on Tor
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, more a comment
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: i really don’t think we should make rules that might not be enforced
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: and the enforcers may be the ones standing for elections
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think spam is much of an issue
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: especially with the new viewer
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: most of my messages just fall to the bottom bar and are ususally forgotten
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: thats all
[9:30] Rose Springvale: thanks. Anyone else?
[9:30] Delia Lake raises her hand
[9:30] Rose Springvale: Delia, go ahead
[9:30] Arria Perreault raises hand again
[9:31] Delia Lake: a thought just occurred to me. it might or might not work
[9:31] Delia Lake: might it be possible for the CDS to purchase subscribomatic or some such non group announcement technique
[9:32] Keila Forager: Why not, everyone else has them..but it’s a subscription plan
[9:32] Delia Lake: then citizens who would want to get all the election campaign notices and info would get it but the rest of the non citizens in the CDS group would not
[9:32] Kaseido Quandry: it *would* enable creation of an “official channel” for the government
[9:32] Tor Karlsvalt: actually i like that idea
[9:32] Rosie Gray thinks that is a great idea
[9:32] Rose Springvale: not sure how that works though. Perhaps Communications could study that
[9:32] Keila Forager: yes..
[9:33] Kaseido Quandry: Happy to – it’s a good solution to a lot of issues, maybe
[9:33] Keila Forager: A channel for just election notices
[9:33] Pip Torok likes it too
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (small comment: that’s actually easy to develop, if we don’t want to spend any money buying it)
[9:33] Arria Perreault: me too
[9:33] Rose Springvale: I hate to see the official group go to subscribo. maybe better to do the events that way and keep the elections on the real group.
[9:33] Rose Springvale: because then anyone can subscribe without invitation
[9:34] Kaseido Quandry: well, that gets us right back to access and posting rights problems – but we can take that up in committee
[9:34] Rose Springvale: good idea though.
[9:34] Arria Perreault: I thought the candidates were not allowed to use the group notice
[9:34] Rose Springvale: that’s what we are discussion Arria
[9:34] Arria Perreault: for their campaing
[9:34] Rose Springvale: discussing*
[9:35] Rose Springvale: My comment is simply this … as a person who in the past has been charged with giving out official notices, we ALWAYS lose people when we start sending out multiple group notices in a day
[9:35] Rose Springvale: and if you will recall
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The current proposal doesn’t give them access.
[9:35] Pip Torok: is there a danger that a candidate wd flood the channel? or wd that be self-defeating?
[9:35] Rose Springvale: a couple of years ago there was a faction who got very agressive with campaigning, and many people complained
[9:35] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I think it *would* be self-defeating – but the concern is collateral damage, as it were
[9:35] Arria Perreault: frankly, I think that debates and in-world meetings are the best solution. People can ask questions directly and get answers
[9:36] Keila Forager: I think it wouldn’t be self defeating as name recognition gets votes
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip, yes, that argument has been brought: anyone doing excissve spamming would probably not be elected because it’s a self-defeating strategy… so, no need for special regulation, etc
[9:36] Arria Perreault: in the group, we have also people who are not citizen …
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true!
[9:36] Rose Springvale: keila, the experts agree with you. name recognition is a tried and true campaign technique
[9:37] Rose Springvale: other comments?
[9:37] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:37] Keila Forager: True , if you don’t “know ” a candidate, you will vote for the name you see the most
[9:37] Tor Karlsvalt: donno, look at Delaware
[9:37] Rose Springvale: arria has the floor
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I think that the point 2 is problematic and the management of the violations seem to me impossible
[9:38] Rose Springvale: how would you change it?
[9:39] Arria Perreault: I think we need a minimal law, mentionning only what is forbidden
[9:39] Arria Perreault: no room for appreciation
[9:39] Rose Springvale: how would you then enforce it?
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “spam” is forbidden, and so is limiting freedom of speech Only that hehe
[9:39] Arria Perreault: I would erase it and make a list of the things which are forbidden
[9:39] Arria Perreault: spam has to be defined
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: good luck with that
[9:40] Arria Perreault: 10 or 100 notices?
[9:40] Rose Springvale: wow, that would be a long list
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: that’ll just lead to violations of “no spam” that are in technical compliance
[9:40] Pip Torok hopes there’s a working definition of both “spam” and “free speech”…
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Defining spam. Well, we could use one open source tool that establish what is spam and what it isn’t using complex algorithms, metrics and heuristics…
[9:40] Arria Perreault: with this law, we can give to a branch the possibility to exclude candidates easely
[9:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: or we could use *common sense*
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Kas.
[9:41] Kaseido Quandry: some things are not quantifialble
[9:41] Pip Torok agrees with common sense …
[9:41] Rose Springvale: I like the proposal, because it includes common sense, but also has some teeth for the people who will Royally abuse it
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt hmmm, i think/me thinks common sense ain’t common
[9:41] Arria Perreault: can the excluded candidate a way to recourse?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, the sensibility of what is allowed and what is not changes with time… so the list of “what is forbidden” would have to be constantly updated.
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh of course, Arria! We always have recourses in the CDS
[9:42] Rose Springvale: we are at time on our discussion, do we want to extend, or have a motion?
[9:42] Delia Lake raises her hand again
[9:42] Rose Springvale: one sec Delia
[9:42] Arria Perreault: can add this in point 3? (recourse)
[9:42] Arria Perreault: can we*
[9:43] Rose Springvale: first we need an extension on discussion.
[9:43] Arria Perreault: I propose we extend the time
[9:43] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:43] Rose Springvale: how long please
[9:43] Arria Perreault: 10 min
[9:44] Rose Springvale: motion to extend discussion 10 minutes, seconded. all in favor?
[9:44] Pip Torok: aye
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:44] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[9:44] Keila Forager: nay
[9:44] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry: nay
[9:44] Solomon Mosely: aye
[9:44] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[9:44] Solomon Mosely: aye aye aye gotta run, call me if a vote on anything comes up
[9:45] Rose Springvale: okay, i’ll vote aye. discussion extended for ten minutes.
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Delia is next
[9:45] Delia Lake: re enforcement and recourse
[9:45] Delia Lake: 1. the SC cannot be both police and court
[9:45] Arria Perreault: (I agree)
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (true!)
[9:46] Delia Lake: 2. recourse is certainly possible, but would the recourse be timely enough in the middle of a campaign or voting?
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the problem lends itself to an open system, with few rules.
[9:47] muhammedyussif Wikinger: afk
[9:47] Tor Karlsvalt: we just will never be able to enforce rules like this.
[9:47] Keila Forager: agreed
[9:47] Arria Perreault: I agree too
[9:47] Rose Springvale: hm
[9:48] Arria Perreault: we need a minimal law, if we need one
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe standards of conduct
[9:48] Arria Perreault: maybe the communication policy is enough for some points
[9:48] Rose Springvale: this is pretty minimal. What i hear you all saying is you want anything goes campaigns
[9:48] Keila Forager: Definitely need some guidelines with consequences
[9:48] Rose Springvale: which is fine for the people in this room, but try to remember some of our more flamboyant candidates
[9:49] Pip Torok feels that this is best driven by precedent ariring from actual preceived breaches
[9:49] Arria Perreault: I would like to know where are the limits: group notices or not for example
[9:49] Rose Springvale: gwyn, is that addressed in this proposal?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: who is going to count them?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The text says that, Arria.
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – there is an initial collection of information
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: I think that skill set is pretty widely dispersed in the CDS :p
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – this information gets posted as a group notice
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – besides that, candidates don’t have access to the groups EXCEPT if they want to announce events, which are handled throughb the usual channels (e.g. PIO)
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this is a Zero Group Notice proposal
[9:50] Kaseido Quandry: so this gives candidates *less* access to the group notices than someone *not* running for office
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… it gives them the same access
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: i think notices have been opened up, no?
[9:51] Keila Forager: So they can send as many notices as they wish?
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: Notices have been opened up
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They shouldn’t have neem, Tor!
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have?
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my
[9:51] Keila Forager: We all have access..
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: thought so
[9:51] Rose Springvale: long time ago gwyn
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why?? lol
[9:51] Arria Perreault: I see a contradiction with the communication policy
[9:51] Keila Forager: Yep, I think 2 meetings ago
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: freedom of speech, and all that
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: and yes, Arria’s right
[9:52] Rose Springvale: what about
[9:52] Arria Perreault: it could be that candidates have less right than non-candidates
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, she’s right. This bill predates that kunacy
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *lunacy even
[9:52] Rose Springvale: if we adopt the essense of this as candidat gudelines
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’m sorry, This doesn’t make any sense any longer.
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe candidates could take a pledge to adhear to guildines
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the groups are open to any idiot, they should be open to candidates as well
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt lol
[9:53] Rose Springvale: is that a motion Gwyn? where were you when we talked about all this!?
[9:53] Kaseido Quandry: heavens, we’re letting the proles talk – what next, give them the vote?!
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, turn my head away for a minute, and the asylum gets opened and takes over
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kas — no, this is like letting anyone enter unrestricted on the TV station, interrupt the work being done, and just broadcast what they wish
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt still lol
[9:54] Keila Forager: Yep, pretty much
[9:54] Rose Springvale: um
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So why are we still worrying about the campaigning? lol
[9:54] Kaseido Quandry thought that’s exactly what the intenets were for…
[9:55] Rose Springvale: lets get back to the point. We have a campaign law on the books that we violate each term
[9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: ture
[9:55] Rose Springvale: do we want to revise it, delete it, or ignore it
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the Internet, Kas, you don’t get the governments’ samp of approval on ANY blog post you do on your own
[9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *stamp
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: no, we have the revised law from the end of the 12th RA
[9:55] Rose Springvale: but
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d ignore it, it doesn’t make any sense now.
[9:55] Rose Springvale: it required a constitutional amendment that didn’t pass Kas
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, right
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
[9:55] Arria Perreault: the SC did a decision
[9:55] Rose Springvale: so… shall we move to delete the campaign act entirely?
[9:55] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, Rose
[9:56] Rose Springvale: order please
[9:56] Arria Perreault: first ask Delia
[9:56] Keila Forager: 10 minutes are up
[9:56] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, want to look at that and bring it back??
[9:56] Rose Springvale: we need to move on
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt thankfully we have lawyers.
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Look at what??
[9:57] Rose Springvale: deletion of the campaign act on the CDS code of laws currently, that was not addressed last term or now
[9:57] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see. Well. That’s an easy, one-line motion. If anyone cares to propose it…
[9:57] Rose Springvale: Arria?
[9:57] Arria Perreault: I have sent a request to the SC about this law and I am pretty sure they mad a decision.
[9:57] Rose Springvale: its on the forums.
[9:57] Arria Perreault: about the validity of this law
[9:57] Rose Springvale: but there is a law that was not revoked prior to that
[9:58] Arria Perreault: we can revoke it then
[9:58] Rose Springvale: i’m going to refer this all back to the committee
[9:58] Rose Springvale: i don’t want a motion that we haven’t looked at for effect on other laws. lets move on the thet term limits act gwyn
[9:58] Arria Perreault: I agree
[9:58] Delia Lake: sorry
[9:58] Delia Lake: rl phone call came in
[9:59] Rose Springvale: nm delia, we’ll get it next time.
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, agreed.
[9:59] Pip Torok: brb 2 mins
[9:59] Delia Lake: i would strongly object to leaving any law on the books that we as a group intend to ignore
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Delia
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[9:59] Rose Springvale: that’s why we will look at it in commission before we discuss. but lets move on, we have a full agenda
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right…
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm. I understand that on the last time we managed to discuss the term limits for the Chancellor. A proposal has been made to limit terms to elected RA members: they can only run twice in succession.
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is to promote rotativity
[10:01] Rose Springvale: the language here would need to end at the word succession, as we already dealt with the chancellor issues
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: that would be the language yes?
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something like that, yes!
[10:02] Lilith Ivory waves
[10:02] Rose Springvale: do you want to make comments Gwyn?
[10:02] Rose Springvale: hi lilith
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only one.
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we should discuss what happens if someone vacates the spot in the middle of their second term,
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can they run again? when?
[10:03] Pip Torok: back
[10:03] Rose Springvale: or their first term for that matter, does it count as a term
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they vacate it after 2 months, can they wait 4 months and get elected again? Or would have to wait 4 + 6 months*
[10:03] Keila Forager: I think it should
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Rose
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That as well
[10:03] Rose Springvale: but first lets discuss the proposal. may not be any support for it
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s the only comment I’ve got. Thanks
[10:04] Rose Springvale: Discussion? do we want to limit successive terms?
[10:04] Keila Forager: Yes
[10:04] Rose Springvale: keila, ?
[10:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[10:04] Kaseido Quandry: is that a vote? are we voting?
[10:04] Rose Springvale: no
[10:04] Rose Springvale: i recognized keila for discussion
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: b sorry
[10:05] Rose Springvale: want to say why Keila?
[10:06] Rose Springvale: smiles. muhammed, would you like to give support for your opinion?
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he is caught up
[10:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think there are not enoug people in CDS to make it work
[10:07] Keila Forager: no comment, sorry, Yes was my comment, we need limits
[10:07] Rose Springvale: hmm, there are some 60 people. the ra only has 10%
[10:07] Rose Springvale: rounded down
[10:07] Naftali Torok: wavers to every one
[10:07] Naftali Torok: good saturday
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that after a term “asleep”, they can come back as candidates, muhammed
[10:07] Pip Torok waves back
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ni Naf!)
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *hi
[10:08] Rose Springvale: anyone else have thoughts on this?
[10:08] Keila Forager: Yes, the RA needs fresh blood…LOL
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It definitely needs fresh blood!!
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And giving out the message that this not “government by a selected few”
[10:08] Pip Torok: yes … imo we need “fresh blood” but limiting terms is not going to provide it!] [10:08] Rose Springvale: why not Pip?
[10:09] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh… why not?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (aw Rose asked first!)
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: I think we’ve all formed our opinions – call the question
[10:09] Pip Torok: yes … but when there is not enough pl what alternative is there?
[10:09] Rose Springvale: as soon as pip finishes
[10:09] Rose Springvale: hmm
[10:09] Pip Torok: finished
[10:09] Keila Forager: There are enough people..
[10:09] Rose Springvale: okay. Question has been called
[10:09] Rose Springvale: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession,
[10:09] Rose Springvale: here is the language
[10:09] Rose Springvale: though technically we need a second for the motion
[10:10] Keila Forager: second
[10:10] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:10] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:10] Keila Forager: definitely aye
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: nay
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt thinks this is worth trying.
[10:10] Rose Springvale: i vote aye, which passes the legislation, but will register 7 day votes as well
[10:11] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn for you work on this. now
[10:11] Rose Springvale: lets do the details. What constitutes a term?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn bows
[10:11] Keila Forager: Thanks GWyn, good work
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:11] Rose Springvale: i’d propose 50 percent of the term would be appropriate
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is “half a term” a term too?
[10:11] You decline Nantucket Theater from A group member named Chuck McMasters.
[10:12] Rose Springvale: would entertain a motion
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll go dowb the route of Zeon’s Paradox…
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Zeno
[10:12] Pip Torok: :-]] [10:12] Rose Springvale: don’t get too techie on me or i’ll get a headache!
[10:12] Keila Forager: Anything over 50% of term meetings is considered a term..
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Keila’s suggestion
[10:12] Pip Torok agrees on that definition
[10:12] Rose Springvale: terms are 26 weeks, can we say anything over 13 weeks from the beginning of the term?
[10:13] Pip Torok: second
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fine!
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: ok
[10:13] Keila Forager: ok, that works
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:13] Arria Perreault: sorry I have crashed. I am on my ipad
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have to start somewhere
[10:13] Rose Springvale: that way we wont’ get into the weekly or bi weekly issue
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wb Arria!)
[10:13] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:13] Keila Forager: yes..true, in case of extra meetins
[10:13] Keila Forager: WB Arria
[10:13] Rose Springvale: moved and seconded that anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law
[10:13] Arria Perreault: tx
[10:14] Rose Springvale: shall we discuss or vote?
[10:14] Keila Forager: vote
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with the vote.
[10:14] Pip Torok: me too
[10:14] Delia Lake muses. …50% + 1 day? 13 wks + 1 day? as she wonders what the SC would do at exactly the 50% mark….hmmm again
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50.00000001%
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50% plus a second
[10:14] Delia Lake: lol!
[10:14] Rose Springvale: 1 second over 13 weeks lol
[10:14] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[10:14] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:14] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: ye
[10:14] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:15] Keila Forager: aye
[10:15] Pip Torok: lets be trad … 13 wks + 1 day!
[10:15] Kaseido Quandry: is that a nay, pip?
[10:15] Pip Torok: no …. it is not a nay
[10:15] Rose Springvale: we are in a vote now.
[10:15] Rose Springvale: waiting
[10:15] Pip Torok: aye
[10:15] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:15] Rose Springvale: great. motion carries!
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[10:16] Rose Springvale: thank you again gwyn.
[10:16] Lilith Ivory aplauds
[10:16] Rose Springvale: moving on!
[10:16] Rose Springvale: commerce commission!
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you shouldn’t thank ME that much as if the commission didn’t have more people in it…. “thank you, commission” is more appropriate!
[10:17] Rose Springvale: indeed
[10:17] Rose Springvale: Lilith?
[10:17] Lilith Ivory:
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: not much to say but that the TP in NFS is changed now
[10:18] Rose Springvale: ah, great!
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: please let me know if there are any problems with it
[10:18] Rose Springvale: any meetings scheduled?
[10:18] Pip Torok: ok lilith …
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: bare with me please till I´m back home from my travels
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I´m sitting at the cleveland airport at the moment …
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I´ll schedule a meeting as soon as im home on 27th
[10:19] Sonja Strom:
[10:19] Rose Springvale: thanks!
[10:19] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:19] Rose Springvale: Citizenship, Arria?
[10:19] Arria Perreault: we had a third meeting and now we are ready to submit a text to the RA
[10:20] Rose Springvale: great! will you post it in legislative discussions and we’ll put it on the agenda next meeting
[10:20] Arria Perreault: i will post it in the forum this week end
[10:20] Rose Springvale: okay thank you.
[10:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:20] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[10:20] Tor Karlsvalt: ahem
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Not much. The Finance Commission did not hold any meetings. However, I think we should grapple with the issue of pricing our land and any necessary adjustments to our tier. This is especially in light of any planning for expansion and the land for sale manly in LA. I do note that AH2 had not been re-parcelled yet.
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:21] Rose Springvale: will you be calling a meeting to discuss that Tor?
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, Sudane I believe has created a new alt to hold reserve funds.
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, after the fest we will deal with these questions.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: maybe we will hear about that from the exec in her report
[10:22] Rose Springvale: any dates?
[10:22] Keila Forager: I agree, land is CDS is priced way too high compared to the rest of the grid, save some mainland
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: like to leave that open
[10:22] Rose Springvale: okay. bear in mind we are on the downward slope of this term, so if there are things we want to address, we need to get them going.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: thank you Tor.
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes i understand.
[10:23] Rose Springvale: Communications, Kas?
[10:23] Pip Torok: but dont forget … the US UK and most of the R:L world is in desperate financial straights ,,, so assessing landpricing cant be more than temporary imo
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: Meetings scheduled for next Thrusday and Saturday at 9am slt
[10:23] Rose Springvale: ah, great! topic?
[10:23] Rose Springvale: (any more specific than communications ? )
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: “offical forums” primarily, and generally, what to do next
[10:24] Rose Springvale: ok. thanks. anything else to report?
[10:24] Kaseido Quandry: nope
[10:24] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you all. Commission chairs, you are doing a great job, and thank you to all the citizens who are participating.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: Sonja, are you ready?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: hm
[10:25] Sonja Strom: Yes
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:25] Rose Springvale: okay, you are on
[10:25] Sonja Strom: thank you
[10:26] Sonja Strom: One of the more fun changes we have had is that we now have open teleport on the sim of Neufreistadt.
[10:26] Sonja Strom: That did create one problem,
[10:26] Keila Forager: Yay!!
[10:26] Sonja Strom:
[10:26] Sonja Strom: Yay, yes
[10:26] Sonja Strom: the problem was that if someone chose the SL map default teleport point,
[10:27] Sonja Strom: they would go into Fern Leissa’ house
[10:27] Kaseido Quandry: ow, lol!
[10:27] Sonja Strom: hehe
[10:27] Lilith Ivory:
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: that could be a surprise.
[10:27] Sonja Strom: yes! lol
[10:27] Lilith Ivory: Arria can teach Fern how to deal with that
[10:27] Sonja Strom: We worked on this, and tried to get the “default” changed,
[10:28] Sonja Strom: and Fern let us know she would donate her land to the CDS for the project
[10:28] Sonja Strom: so, we have her to thank for that!
[10:28] Sonja Strom: Very nice of her
[10:28] Lilith Ivory: not so bad to have a shop at 128/128
[10:28] Sonja Strom: now the default teleport point has been moved to exactly where the telehub used to be,
[10:28] Sonja Strom: heehee Lilith
[10:28] Pip Torok: the RA wd like to give her a vote of thanks!
[10:29] Sonja Strom:
[10:29] Arria Perreault: i have a garden …
[10:29] Keila Forager: yes and I think we should pay her for her land
[10:29] Rose Springvale: so fern’s land isn’t needed now Sonja?
[10:29] Pip Torok: agree
[10:29] Sonja Strom: and peope using the SL map will end up in the Platz.
[10:29] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[10:30] Rose Springvale: (can we hold comments to the end of hte report please? lots of time for them at the end)
[10:30] Sonja Strom: A little less fun,as I think we all know, land sales down
[10:30] Sonja Strom: this is an issue made much more intensified by Arrias and his friends all leaving.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:31] Sonja Strom: One thing we are doing to try to help is a reparceling of the really big parcel on Alpine Meadow
[10:31] Sonja Strom: the New Guild is working on this.
[10:31] Sonja Strom: Probably it would be good for the CDS to lower its monthly tier costs,
[10:31] Sonja Strom: and help with this would be appreciated.
[10:32] Sonja Strom: With many thanks to Tor and his great work on this, we have implemented new policies for nonpayment of tier,
[10:32] Sonja Strom: posted here:
[10:32] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[10:33] Sonja Strom: Unfortunately these new policies appear to have resulted in a bunch of people falling behind in their tier payments.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: We are contacting them individually to see if we can get them on track with the new regulations.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: If you would like to help with this, please contact me.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: The finances are posted as Treasurer Reports, as normal
[10:34] Sonja Strom: to be found here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=224
[10:34] Sonja Strom: Now the are also detailed with Chancellor spreadsheets showing the budget.
[10:35] Sonja Strom: The current budget is posted here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3066
[10:35] Sonja Strom: and monthly totals:
[10:35] Sonja Strom: June: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3095
July: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3097
August: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3099
[10:35] Sonja Strom: The Treasurer has created a new avatar to act as the holder of the reserves,
[10:36] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3096
[10:36] Sonja Strom: which she posted about here:
[10:36] Sonja Strom: There has been some discussion in the forum about the right of the Chancellor to make the budget and act on it.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: The legality of this issue has been brought as an issue for resolution to the Dean of the SC, Delia Lake.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: She has said the SC will discuss it and give their view on what the law says.
[10:37] Delia Lake: we are looking at that issue
[10:37] Delia Lake: we/SC
[10:37] Sonja Strom: One discussion in the community for going forward is about the Schloss in Neufreistadt, and possible future sims.
[10:37] Sonja Strom: There have been a fair number of accomplishments in the area of public communication.
[10:38] Sonja Strom: The InfoCenters have been re-furbished; they now give out (1) a re-edited “About CDS” notecard, (2) a url to the CDS Calendar
[10:38] Sonja Strom: nd (3) a url to the land for sale listing.
[10:38] Sonja Strom: They have been placed at info-points in the sims (CN Forum, LA Harbor, NFS Marktplatz, in MON near the Monsastery proper, and in AM near Naf’s cantina)
[10:39] Sonja Strom: There has also been one placed at the Anzere infohub maintained by CDS.
[10:39] Sonja Strom: Land For Sale is being regularly updated and is now in a post on the forum,
[10:39] Sonja Strom: located here:
[10:39] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3080
[10:39] Sonja Strom: As I said, the InfoCenter urls link to there.
[10:40] Sonja Strom: Teleport boards (with maps) have been placed in the sims at all the above information points.
[10:40] Sonja Strom: We have written a new communications policy to implement the recent communications act.
[10:40] Sonja Strom: It has been posted in the forum here:
[10:40] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3079
[10:40] Sonja Strom: and also sent out to all of the citizens in the form of a notecard.
[10:41] Sonja Strom: We have organised what looks like a really great Oktoberfest.
[10:41] Sonja Strom: If you go to the Platz you will be amazed at the fantasitic work done by Rosie Gray and others.
[10:42] Sonja Strom: I want to thank publicly all of our participants in getting this so nicely put together,
[10:42] Sonja Strom: and I hope you will thank them also.
[10:43] Sonja Strom: Last but not least, I really hope the people in the government (at least) will try to go to the events as much as possible,
[10:43] Sonja Strom: and even when there are not “events” be around to greet people and welcome them.
[10:44] Sonja Strom: This is a really wonderful opportunity for us all to and meet and talk with people!
[10:44] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Thank you Sonja. RA, questions?
[10:44] Keila Forager raises hand
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ys
[10:44] Rose Springvale: keila?
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt raises his hand too
[10:45] Keila Forager: it’s a long one..LOL
[10:45] Rose Springvale: smiles. go on
[10:45] Rose Springvale: tor next
[10:45] Pip Torok: I propose a vote of thanks to the Chancellor and helpers for theeir efforts
[10:45] Keila Forager: ~Oktoberfest looks like it will be alot of fun..great work. Thanks to all putting it together. FYI, the info give is not copy as one of the scripts is no copy and no mod
~A couple things..as marketing of CDS is sporatic at best. Why aren’t we in SL Showcase? That is an awesome way to get traffic here.
~Comment on lowering tiers…I think first we need to lower land prices. How can we get new citizens if they can’t afford land?
And along with that, we ,as a whole need to look at retaining citizens and not driving them away..
~Next…The flags on the Schloss are flying in different directions and some of the textures on the clocktower are all wrong. It has been pointed out to me by numerous people. I”ve been told this is something for the exec to fix.
~And last a personal question…have you taken care of the issue we spoke about…and when? As they are still there and it is 10 days later.
[10:45] Arria Perreault: second
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pip’s motion
[10:45] Rose Springvale: out of order folks
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry !
[10:46] Pip Torok wonders why
[10:46] Keila Forager: Feel free to take them one at a time Sonja
[10:46] Arria Perreault: me too
[10:46] Rose Springvale: okay sonja, want to take keils’s questions?
[10:46] Rose Springvale: we are in discussion.
[10:46] Sonja Strom: Ah, thanks Keila, I did not know about the script being no copy and no mod
[10:47] Sonja Strom: I will find one where those a possible.
[10:47] Sonja Strom: I am not familiar with the SL Showcase. If you will let me know how we can get into it, I will work on this.
[10:48] Keila Forager: it’s in the search tab
[10:48] Sonja Strom: How do we apply for it?
[10:49] Keila Forager: Click on the FAQ and it should take you to the info..and it is on the website..
[10:49] Delia Lake: http://secondlife.com/destinations
[10:49] Sonja Strom: I agree with you that lowering prices on the government-owned land that is for sale is a good idea. If you would like to help with getting this worked out, that would be great.
[10:49] Sonja Strom: Good, thanks!
[10:49] Sonja Strom: I will do it.
[10:51] Sonja Strom: I will look into the flags flying in different directions. I agree that can look kind of strange and disorganised, like the work is incomplete or something.
[10:51] Keila Forager: Yes, that and the textures have been commented on frequently
[10:51] Sonja Strom: what is the issue with the textures?
[10:51] Keila Forager: they are wrong..
[10:51] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[10:52] Sonja Strom: sure, I will be happy to help to get them changed.
[10:52] Keila Forager: it is blatant, so you can’t miss it when you look at it
[10:52] Sonja Strom: Thank you for bringing them up
[10:52] Sonja Strom: alright, I will go and look at them.
[10:53] Sonja Strom: The issue you and I spoke about had to do with the use of sim resources of rabbits, or bunnies
[10:53] Sonja Strom: and you had told me there are some on Locus Amoenus
[10:53] Sonja Strom: I have found them, and am in the process of documenting the amount of sim resources they use,
[10:53] Rose Springvale: can you share what the issue is please?
[10:54] Keila Forager: Upholding the covanents is the issue
[10:54] Sonja Strom: another way of saying this is, how much lag the rabbits cause
[10:54] Keila Forager: they don’t cause lag
[10:54] Sonja Strom: and, yes, enforcement of the covenants.
[10:54] Keila Forager: enforcement of the covenants is the main issue..
[10:54] Sonja Strom: I am moving forward with this with care,
[10:55] Sonja Strom: because of the nature of what has happened with those residents in the recent past,
[10:55] Sonja Strom: and what their interests are in the CDS.
[10:55] Sonja Strom: I will speak with them about it in detail before very long.
[10:55] Keila Forager: but you gave me 48 hours to resolve my issue and I did in 24, why do they get special treatment and get to keep more bunnies than I ever had..
[10:55] Keila Forager: ??
[10:55] Kaseido Quandry has no idea what’s going on.
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:56] Keila Forager: I was asked to remove all my bunnies as they were in violation of covanent and given 48 horus
[10:56] Sonja Strom: Keila, I asked you to move your rabbits from the sim of Neufreistadt because of Oktoberfest coming up.
[10:56] Keila Forager: I did..
[10:56] Rose Springvale: maybe we can have covenant violations posted and disposition on the exec thread as in the past?
[10:56] Keila Forager: No, that is incorrect
[10:56] Keila Forager: I have the log of that conversation..
[10:56] Sonja Strom: It is very important that we focus all of the resources we can in Neufreistadt on the ability for the Oktoberfest events to not be laggy,
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn likes Rose’s suggestion
[10:57] Sonja Strom: and for them to go well and smoothly.
[10:57] Keila Forager: that was not even brought up
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt thinks there was a lack of communication.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: seems this issue is an estate wide issue that shouldn’t be borne by one citizen
[10:57] Keila Forager: my question doesn’t really have to do with my bunnies,,,,it has to do with why laws are enforced willy nilly
[10:57] Sonja Strom: Well, I’m sorry if you felt I was incomplete Keila.
[10:58] Sonja Strom: The reason I contacted you was because of Oktoberfest coming up.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: for the sake of transparency, can we have process and application applied uniformly?
[10:58] Sonja Strom: But in any event, the rabbits were (and still are) clearly in violation of the posted covenants.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: all bunnies in all sims?
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Yes
[10:59] Keila Forager: you NEVER mentioned Oktoberfest at all
[10:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: next question please
[10:59] Sonja Strom: Keila, would it have made a difference for you if I would have mentioned Oktoberfest?
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, lets have a covenants review committee look at those. That issue has foundered, so i’ll take it up.
[10:59] Rose Springvale: lets move on please
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt remembers reading blogs on this issue and major opinion was that bunnies use few resources.
[10:59] Keila Forager: no, and why aren’t the others gone..you agreed to that
[10:59] Rose Springvale: Was that your last question Keila?
[10:59] Keila Forager: and you are correct, this isn’t about bunnies
[11:00] Keila Forager: it’s about picking and chosing what laws to enforce
[11:00] Sonja Strom: I am in the process of documenting the use of sim resources.
[11:00] Sonja Strom: If you like, I can post this in the Forum.
[11:00] Rose Springvale: please do. I think Tor has a question?
[11:00] Pip Torok thinks that wd be a good idea
[11:00] Sonja Strom: Alright, I will.
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, several questions and suggestions
[11:00] Keila Forager: That isn’t important to enforcing the covanents and picking and chosing who you let do whatever
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Just like to point out several things.
First, there are several very desirable parcels along the NC south wall and river that are not set for sale, but owned by Rudene. Just found those the other day.
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Second, I wonder if the exec team has thought of listing parcels in search? The cost would be small and might offer us some chance to get land at least considered by non-citizens. Perhaps we could just list one parcel and have a kiosk on it that would direct prospective buyers to other parcels and the parcel maps and tier schedules.
[11:01] Rose Springvale: smiles. CN i think he means
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Finally, I remade the sign as copy/mod and placed them at my houses and here in the praetorium. Also, a note to all, take a flag and decorate your houses, show support for Oktoberfest. (They seem to always fly in the same direction thanks to Rosie Gray.)
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: I meant CN
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s it
[11:01] Sonja Strom: Thanks Tor!
[11:02] Sonja Strom: I was not aware of those parcels owned by Rudeen. I will look into why they are, and why they are not set for sale.
[11:02] Sonja Strom: I think it can be a good idea to list parcels for sale in SL Search.
[11:02] Sonja Strom: There is a cost for that, but it can be minimal.
[11:02] Sonja Strom: However,
[11:03] Sonja Strom: I also think we will have people more interested in the parcels here if they have some connection to our community.
[11:03] Sonja Strom: If they have seen the CDS,
[11:03] Sonja Strom: and/or they have talked with someone who is a citizen.
[11:03] Sonja Strom: The best marketing we can have is our Oktoberfest,
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and for all of us to be there to meet and talk with its visitors.
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: We will talk to more people about CDS if they come into our sims.
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes, true, I agree.
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: May I ask, what adverstising has been done for Oktoberfest?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your work on the signs and flags, Tor!
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: i posted a classified yesterday
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes,
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: told Anna about it.
[11:05] Sonja Strom: Oktoberfest is listed in the SL Events Calendar
[11:05] Sonja Strom: It is listed in the CDS Events Calendar
[11:05] Sonja Strom: All of the performers and artists are telling their fans and friends to come.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: We have InfoGivers and Flags that are distributed widely.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: Would any of you like to help us do more to advertise it?
[11:06] Rose Springvale: maybe on our portal and web presences
[11:06] Rose Springvale: nothing on any of them
[11:07] Keila Forager: I’ve put mine out in Fruit Islands..I get more visitors there than CDS gets..hehe, but only have one
[11:07] Sonja Strom: They are in the Events Calendar, which comes up on the portal.
[11:07] Sonja Strom: I made a post about all of the events in the CDS Forum.
[11:07] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[11:07] Sonja Strom: As events come up, we can put them in Twitter…
[11:07] Rose Springvale: but when you click on the portal front page, all you get is an old beach party note
[11:07] Sonja Strom: that is a good idea!
[11:08] Keila Forager: But still, the portal is very difficult to navigate..and seems the people that read the forums are all sitting here..LOL
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: We really need to focus on non-citizens.
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: hence my classified
[11:08] Keila Forager: Yes, and they don’t go to the portal
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Thank you Tor.
[11:08] Delia Lake: is there a sign on the platz that has a notecard to the url for the land for sale in CDS? sign saying something like This could be home!
[11:08] Rose Springvale: we have always done press releases in the past too
[11:08] Arria Perreault: maybe facebook
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Rose, would you please help us with a press release?
[11:08] Keila Forager: But we need to get the word out to people who arent’ sitting in this room…
[11:09] Rose Springvale: we are at time. Maybe furthre questions can go to the forums. too late for them now Sonja
[11:09] Sonja Strom: Keila, your help would also be appreciated.
[11:09] Sonja Strom: Rose, it’s never too late — Oktoberfest has not even yet started!
[11:10] Rose Springvale: Thank you for all your hard work sonja. And yay for Rosie and anna and tor too
[11:10] Sonja Strom: Thank you
[11:10] Pip Torok: I propose a vote of thanks to the Chancellor and helpers for theeir efforts
[11:10] Lilith Ivory aplauds
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[11:10] Rose Springvale: i think we did just thank her
[11:10] Sonja Strom:
[11:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[11:10] Pip Torok:
[11:10] Rose Springvale: fine. all in favor?
[11:11] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:11] Keila Forager: aye
[11:11] Pip Torok: aye
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sure
[11:11] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: arria? kas?
[11:12] Kaseido Quandry: hm? oh, aye
[11:12] Rose Springvale: thank you, motion carries.
[11:12] Rose Springvale: i’ll let you draft the language Pip.
[11:12] Pip Torok:
[11:12] Rose Springvale: other RA concerns?
[11:12] Rose Springvale: okay. Announcements?
[11:13] Rose Springvale: Sonja, can you tell us what we are sponsoring on Radio Riel and where?
[11:13] Sonja Strom: Yes
[11:14] Sonja Strom: Klaus Wulfenbach, who many of us know has been a great person to have around,
[11:14] Sonja Strom: and who has helped the CDS a great deal,
[11:14] Sonja Strom: is organising a folk music stream in SL, put together by Radio Riel
[11:15] Sonja Strom: Radio Real has also been very supportive of the CDS
[11:15] Pip Torok gets interested ….
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn is really, really sorry, but will have to leave you a bit earlier today. Thanks for your patience and have a lovely weekend all!
[11:15] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:15] Rose Springvale: smiles. radio riel makes a lot of money in CDS
[11:15] Sonja Strom: and if the CDS helps to sponsor this radio station,
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye Gwyn!
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: bye Gwyn
[11:15] Sonja Strom: they will give us advertising time when there are breaks in the music
[11:16] Rose Springvale: so will our streams be set to their url?
[11:16] Sonja Strom: which… we were just talking about how advertising the CDS can be really good.
[11:16] Sonja Strom: And, yes, we can have this URL in our public areas.
[11:16] Keila Forager: They would have to be
[11:16] Rose Springvale: radio riel is primarily a steampunk organization, and Gabi has her own sims with land for sale as well
[11:17] Sonja Strom: I believe it is a worthwhile project, and have said we would support it.
[11:17] Rose Springvale: how will you assess its usefulness?
[11:17] Sonja Strom: If the RA disagrees with this, we can take away our support of it.
[11:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: afk
[11:17] Sonja Strom: That’s a good question, Rose. Any suggestions?
[11:18] Pip Torok thinks he really needs to research steampunk ….
[11:18] Rose Springvale: i am just asking process. I thought that question would be determined before committing funds
[11:18] Rose Springvale: gabi is a personal friend of mine, and has often bailed me out when others have not been professional
[11:18] Sonja Strom: We can ask the RA right now: what do you think about it?
[11:19] Rose Springvale: we are out of time today. Please open a thread, and we can pick it up later
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: I think I’d like to see a written proposal and a budget
[11:19] Rose Springvale: maybe you can give some more background on what we are getting
[11:19] Sonja Strom: Alright, I will do that.
[11:19] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:19] Lilith Ivory needs more info to have an opinion
[11:19] Pip Torok agrees with Kas
[11:19] Keila Forager: agrees also with Kas
[11:19] Rose Springvale: i’ll entertain a motion to adjourn then
[11:19] Keila Forager: second
[11:19] Pip Torok: so move
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt same as Lilith. But sounds like a good idea at first light.
[11:20] Rose Springvale: thank you
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: secont
[11:20] Kaseido Quandry: heck, I’d feed it dinner and ask it to spend the night
[11:20] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:20] Pip Torok: aye
[11:20] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:20] Keila Forager: aye
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:20] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:20] Rose Springvale: thank you all, we are adjourned

Permalink.

Special Meeting 1 re CDS Expansion 25 September 2010

Special Meeting 1, re: CDS Expansion
by Rose Springvale » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:32 am
[2010/09/25 10:02] Rose Springvale: i’m going to start the record now
[2010/09/25 10:02] Keila Forager: ok
[2010/09/25 10:02] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:02] Rose Springvale: We are here today to talk about what, if any expansion we’d like to see in CDS
[2010/09/25 10:02] Lilith Ivory: we do still get this notes about tier when it¬¥s time to pay? right?
[2010/09/25 10:02] Keila Forager: I have Lilith
[2010/09/25 10:02] Keila Forager: Hi Soro \
[2010/09/25 10:02] Rose Springvale: this is an informal meeting, no voting, but i’ll take any thoughts back to the RA, and this will be on the agenda for the next RA meeting
[2010/09/25 10:03] Rose Springvale: i’ve also talked to moon, who will be available at the next meeting, which is this thursday btw
[2010/09/25 10:03] Rose Springvale: to help us understand what is possible
[2010/09/25 10:03] Rose Springvale: i’m going to open the floor. What would you like to see us do?
[2010/09/25 10:03] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi – I can’t find them
[2010/09/25 10:04] Rose Springvale shouts: soro, downstairs in the school!
[2010/09/25 10:04] Rose Springvale: i’ll tp you
[2010/09/25 10:04] Keila Forager: first floor guys…
[2010/09/25 10:04] Soro Dagostino: Oh
[2010/09/25 10:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I have tried
[2010/09/25 10:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok here it was – hello
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: hi muhammed!
[2010/09/25 10:05] Keila Forager: I think before we start talking expansion, we need to market cds more to get in new citizens, unless just having the present citizens buy the new land is fine..
[2010/09/25 10:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi Rose
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: i anticipated that keila
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: and want to report that even though it looks like we have a lot of land for sale
[2010/09/25 10:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Soro is looking for us too
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: we are still at 90% or better on our revenues
[2010/09/25 10:06] Rose Springvale: sent him a tp
[2010/09/25 10:06] Keila Forager: he just went offline
[2010/09/25 10:07] Solomon Mosely gave you ~*The FASHION ROCKS Series*~ Saturday SHOP HOP 9/25 – Schedule.
[2010/09/25 10:07] Rose Springvale: arria we are downstairs
[2010/09/25 10:07] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:07] Rose Springvale: just jump lol
[2010/09/25 10:07] Lilith Ivory: is there any progress with the rebuild of the schloss yet?
[2010/09/25 10:08] Rose Springvale: lilith, i don’t think anyone has done anything. I went up to find a room to meet in, and if anything, its worse
[2010/09/25 10:08] Keila Forager: Then NFS East or a sim on the west of NFS as it looks “funky” looking inside Monanstary
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: this building is a bit tough for angles, but i wanted to be where we could attract visitors, and the GMP is here. keila
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: i don’t know my directions, can you be more specific?
[2010/09/25 10:09] You decline Nantucket Theater from A group member named Chuck McMasters.
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: lol, i’ll turn the bench around
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: there
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: sorry
[2010/09/25 10:10] Lilith Ivory: I think Keila means a Sim between NFS and Monastery
[2010/09/25 10:10] Keila Forager: Specific how…east and west..LOL
[2010/09/25 10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/09/25 10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[2010/09/25 10:10] Rose Springvale: welcome everyone. this meeting will be transcripted btw!
[2010/09/25 10:10] Rose Springvale: is that east?
[2010/09/25 10:10] Lilith Ivory: it¬¥s the west
[2010/09/25 10:10] Arria Perreault: I am west
[2010/09/25 10:10] Keila Forager: west
[2010/09/25 10:11] Rose Springvale: oh, so you prefer NFS west instead of east? not rebuilding the schloss?
[2010/09/25 10:11] Rose Springvale: let me ask you all something
[2010/09/25 10:11] Lilith Ivory: the idea of touching the schloss scares me heheh
[2010/09/25 10:11] Keila Forager: either or and no reason not to rebuild the schloss with teh idea of a sim being there one day..
[2010/09/25 10:11] Rose Springvale: do you feel there is a need for more land in CDS?
[2010/09/25 10:12] Keila Forager: Not at this time
[2010/09/25 10:12] Rose Springvale: why Keila?
[2010/09/25 10:12] Lilith Ivory: even the alpine Sims have parcels for sale at the moment
[2010/09/25 10:12] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Lots of yellow . . .
[2010/09/25 10:12] Arria Perreault: do we even need a sim?
[2010/09/25 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Water.
[2010/09/25 10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Actally one less than a week ago for AM
[2010/09/25 10:12] Arria Perreault: yes, water sim
[2010/09/25 10:12] Keila Forager: Why…because we have land for sale..land that is owned , sets empty as it’s used for prims..
[2010/09/25 10:12] Rose Springvale: Sudane tells me we are consistently at 90% revenue.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Keila Forager: I believe that..
[2010/09/25 10:13] Rose Springvale: and any landlord would be happy with that.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Many sims seem to have far more yellow than us.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[2010/09/25 10:13] Keila Forager: I vote for Atlantis
[2010/09/25 10:13] Rose Springvale: do we need to be sold out before we start new projects?
[2010/09/25 10:13] Arria Perreault: me too
[2010/09/25 10:13] Pip Torok: hi one and all
[2010/09/25 10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: but not all our pacels are set for sail in LA nad CN.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Ingrid Manen gave you Al Andalus.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Keila Forager: no..but we need to have an idea that the land will sell..
[2010/09/25 10:14] Lilith Ivory: I¬¥d like to have the schloss rebuild and have an east expansion
[2010/09/25 10:14] Arria Perreault: a water sim will make LA and CN very attractive
[2010/09/25 10:14] Lilith Ivory: but I don¬¥t see many who are willing and able to work on that
[2010/09/25 10:14] Arria Perreault: why do we need a new schloss?
[2010/09/25 10:14] Rose Springvale: what about sims that are not for sale.. like water, mountains and sandboxes?
[2010/09/25 10:14] Lilith Ivory: because the old one is kinda ugly
[2010/09/25 10:15] Keila Forager: You can set parts of a water sim for sale..
[2010/09/25 10:15] Rose Springvale: i’d like to add value for our current citizens
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: we use the schloss only for some events and we have other places for the events
[2010/09/25 10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I think NFS is too laggy, moving all or part of the schloss to a new sim will help that right?
[2010/09/25 10:15] Rose Springvale: they are the ones who built the treasury
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: I don’t think the SChloss is ugly
[2010/09/25 10:15] Keila Forager: and sandboxes, you can rent out space around the perimeter
[2010/09/25 10:15] Rose Springvale: do you think those things would add value ?
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: it is an “old2 monument for SL
[2010/09/25 10:15] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, if it straddles the sim line carefully, yes, it should
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: and maybe we should keep it so
[2010/09/25 10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: a sandbox would really bring people in
[2010/09/25 10:16] Keila Forager: I think those things would add value and it a sandbox was advertised…tons of people
[2010/09/25 10:16] Keila Forager: if
[2010/09/25 10:16] Rose Springvale: if anyone is interested in the schloss work group, there is a lot of background already done, i’ll invite you to the google doc. but that’s only one small part
[2010/09/25 10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: An old monument for CDS and a mabye a negative for new residents.
[2010/09/25 10:16] Arria Perreault: I don’t think so
[2010/09/25 10:16] Rose Springvale: can we use the Rest of the sim… we are almost always sold out of fachwerks and land in nfs
[2010/09/25 10:16] Keila Forager: The schoss is in major need of updating and it’s primmy
[2010/09/25 10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the lag is a negative
[2010/09/25 10:16] Arria Perreault: and if it is true, we can remake all sims
[2010/09/25 10:16] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2010/09/25 10:17] Rose Springvale: so arria, you are voting against any expansion?
[2010/09/25 10:17] Callipygian Christensen: You can create an identical schloss build with far less prims if the hiistoric look is desired
[2010/09/25 10:17] Pip Torok: but5 will the new Schloss be in the style of the old Schloss? .. I hope so
[2010/09/25 10:17] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: I am in favour of an expansion in the low area
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: eith water
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: with water
[2010/09/25 10:17] Rose Springvale: the low area has always been the hardest to sell
[2010/09/25 10:17] Pip Torok: tks Calli … 2 minds …
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: I know many people are waiting for that
[2010/09/25 10:17] Rose Springvale: but where whould you put water?
[2010/09/25 10:17] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Rose
[2010/09/25 10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: if any of our estate has a problem with selling it is the “low area”
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: and it is easier to do than a new Schloss
[2010/09/25 10:18] Rose Springvale: i agree we should have water, but not try to sell it
[2010/09/25 10:18] Lilith Ivory: AM normally is sold out but the big parcel
[2010/09/25 10:18] Rose Springvale: easy isn’t interesting usually
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: it will possible to navigate
[2010/09/25 10:18] Keila Forager: jThat is the price Litlith
[2010/09/25 10:18] Callipygian Christensen: the only options as things are right now would be west of LA or monastery if you want LA access
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: it will make these sims attractive
[2010/09/25 10:18] Keila Forager: How Arria?
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: in the mountains, I am in favour or a NFS west
[2010/09/25 10:19] Pip Torok: me too …
[2010/09/25 10:19] Arria Perreault: people likes boats
[2010/09/25 10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: i am for water, with maybe a sandbox in the sky, but first I think we would expand NFS East
[10:19 AM] Arria Perreault: there are models of antic boats in the harbour
[10:19 AM] Arria Perreault: we can have an island that we can reach with a boat
[10:19 AM] Arria Perreault: Hi Ulysse
[10:19 AM] Ulysse Alexandre: hello everybody
[10:19 AM] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Rose Springvale (3m)
[10:19 AM] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Rose
[10:19 AM] Lilith Ivory: Hi Ulysse
[10:19 AM] Rose Springvale: sorry
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: wb Rose
[10:19] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Ulysse
[10:19] Keila Forager: wb Rose
[10:20] Rose Springvale: i was going to say
[10:20] Rose Springvale: any of the spaces around cds are available for development
[10:20] Arria Perreault: for me, NFS west and LA west (an island) and a contest as process to choose
[10:20] Rose Springvale: LL will simply move the estate. they’ve done it twice with cds already
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: keep in mind if you opt for a homestead water sim there will be limits on avatars ..and not sure, are they limiting scripts yet?
[10:20] Rose Springvale: well, lets do this one at a time
[10:20] Tor Karlsvalt: we would I think need agreement with AA to expand north of LA
[10:21] Rose Springvale: no
[10:21] Keila Forager: Not yet Calli
[10:21] Rose Springvale: just move hte estates tor
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok true
[10:21] Keila Forager: and avatar limit is 20 but that doesn’t seem to be a problem here
[10:21] Arria Perreault: does it cost something?
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: then that would add to the cost, no?
[10:21] Rose Springvale: so lets get this straight
[10:21] Rose Springvale: no
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: Separate from AA?
[10:21] Rose Springvale: not for expansion.
[10:21] Arria Perreault: good
[10:21] Rose Springvale: yes, AA and CDS are no longer linked so any expansion can happen, LL will just move
[10:21] Arria Perreault: let’s make two water sims north then
[10:22] Callipygian Christensen: you dont have free space north Arria
[10:22] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:22] Rose Springvale: Keila, i’d like to hear about atlantis
[10:22] Pip Torok: agree … we dont haveenough watersims atm
[10:22] Rose Springvale: hi cindy!
[10:22] Arria Perreault: Hi Cindy
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria then is moving to move CDS, i think
[10:22] Pip Torok: hi Cindy
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: hi cindy
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: hi all!
[10:23] Rose Springvale: hi Sudane
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sudane
[10:23] Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: Hi Cindy, Hi Sudane
[10:23] Sudane Erato: hi
[10:23] Keila Forager: Atlantis was an idea I had if I ever owned a full sim…
[10:23] Rose Springvale: like these benches?
[10:23] Seat Cushion: Sit here.
[10:23] Rose Springvale:
[10:23] Pip Torok: hi Sudane
[10:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[10:23] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: if you want a water sim north of LA and one north of CN you will need to move the whole estate..but LL will probably give you a deal on doing so
[10:23] Rose Springvale: lets not worry about that part …lets talk about what we want
[10:24] Rose Springvale: what would atlantis involve?
[10:25] Keila Forager: The way I envision it, it would be a full sim
[10:25] Rose Springvale: (bad chat lag today)
[10:25] Keila Forager: not homestead.
[10:25] Rose Springvale: go on
[10:25] Keila Forager: all land for sale would be underwater…lets bring in some mermaids..LOL
[10:25] Arria Perreault listening
[10:25] Rose Springvale: where would you put it Keila?
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol looks at sudane
[10:25] Keila Forager: on the surface would be small islands over the sold land..
[10:26] Keila Forager: only a few so we would have open water
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I actually met a person at Feria who would be interested int that
[10:26] Keila Forager: probably next to LA
[10:26] Arria Perreault: west?
[10:26] Rose Springvale: next to… which side?
[10:26] Arria Perreault: in front of the harbor?
[10:26] Rose Springvale: opens minimap
[10:26] Arria Perreault: and the beach?
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: that is east
[10:26] Arria Perreault: where are Tor’s feet?
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: the harbor could be turned around
[10:27] Keila Forager: probalby north
[10:27] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:27] Rose Springvale: so on the map, it would be 15?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: will it be also possible to have houses on the small islands?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: or 10?
[10:27] Keila Forager: would have a central info island with boat docks for rent for people to get info about Atlantis and Cds and keep a boat
[10:28] Keila Forager: the idea is to have the houses under the water…it’s Atlantis
[10:28] Rose Springvale: what about theme? what era is atlantis?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: that would be good. and CDS could rent the docks
[10:28] Keila Forager: yes
[10:28] Rose Springvale: sudane, do your docks rent well in SLNE?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think such a sim should have a good sized sandbox in the sky.
[10:28] Arria Perreault: yes, and places for boats maybe
[10:29] Sudane Erato: they used to… but not so much now…
[10:29] Rose Springvale: soro, how does that fit with what you like?
[10:29] Sudane Erato: also, i no longer own the town
[10:29] Sudane Erato: so i’m not up to date
[10:29] Keila Forager: but then to the west of LA could be a plain boating water sim and west of Atlantis with the sandbox..
[10:29] Rose Springvale: oh,okay. sorry. out ofthe loop
[10:29] Rose Springvale: can you tell me by numbers on the map? lol
[10:30] Arria Perreault: 3 water sims?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: and please don’t make me do time zones either!
[10:30] Keila Forager: ok..
[10:30] Arria Perreault: 1 full sim and 2 openspaces or homestead?
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Keila, you mean west of the beach there would be two sims?
[10:30] Keila Forager: 10 would be atlantis with 15 and 9 being water sims with boats adn sandbox..
[10:31] Keila Forager: both 15 and 09 being homestead and 10 being full sim
[10:31] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[10:31] Rose Springvale: other thoughts?
[10:31] Rose Springvale: ideas?
[10:31] Arria Perreault loves this idea
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be a nice idea.
[10:31] Keila Forager: 1 sim is barely enough to sail or boat, but have 2 1/2 water sims would be great
[10:31] Rose Springvale: there has been a huge push over the years for mountains over the years
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: that is close to the plan too
[10:32] Keila Forager: I love the mountains too, that is why I came to NFS, but in my heart I’m a beach person
[10:32] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i hate to see NFS isolated, as it is really our first point of contact for so many
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:32] Arria Perreault: I think we could have an homestead/full sim above the Monstary, but it’s more for the long terme
[10:33] Rose Springvale: this is the long term
[10:33] Rose Springvale: no rush to build
[10:33] Arria Perreault: I think NFS west is better than NFS esat
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like NFS fillled in too. I like both ideas but what is more imporant.
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: I think we should fill the empty space between NFS and Monastery
[10:33] Arria Perreault: NFS east will be a kind of isolated too
[10:33] Keila Forager: I think a nfs east and west then..
[10:33] Pip Torok: imo they are BOTH equally important
[10:33] Arria Perreault: look this model on the floor and imagine it
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, I think the low water sims would help LA if there is a sandbox.
[10:34] Rose Springvale: nfs west is not able tor eally extend the town much
[10:34] Arria Perreault: this sim will have 3 borders with emptiness
[10:34] Rose Springvale: and that wil always be the case if we don’t start somewhere
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: oh i mean est if i said west
[10:34] Arria Perreault: frankly I think NFS is our sanctuary
[10:34] Rose Springvale: i don’t really like the low sim expansion
[10:34] Arria Perreault: we should let it so
[10:35] Rose Springvale: Soro
[10:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: sigh
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol thinks TOr said “east” and arria said “west”
[10:35] Rose Springvale: are two or three sims enough to attract sailors?
[10:35] Arria Perreault: Rose, it seems that many poeple want an expansion in the low area
[10:35] Arria Perreault: we have to listen to the people
[10:36] Pip Torok: i dont think we shd have water sime ONLY to attract sailors
[10:36] Keila Forager: I don’t think in a big way Rose…there are so many sims of 100 or more that they can sail in
[10:36] Rose Springvale: smiles. we are doing that. there are a few people HERE who want that arria, but there are many people in CDS
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: i think you need more for racing gut don’t know
[10:36] Pip Torok: *sims
[10:36] Rose Springvale: that
[10:36] Rose Springvale: s been my experience
[10:36] Arria Perreault: why not make a survey?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: that’s why i like atlantis, but not the extra sims
[10:36] Rose Springvale: why not brainstorm for a while arria?
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I think there would be interest in Atlantis.
[10:36] Rose Springvale: i’d rather add mountains, than just more water
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: I agree Rose
[10:37] Arria Perreault: because of the concept of “many like..”
[10:37] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input. Other ideas?
[10:37] Arria Perreault: Keila’s proposal is interesting
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol things Atlantis would be a lot of fun to build
[10:37] Pip Torok: whats involved in an Atlantis, Tor?
[10:37] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:37] Arria Perreault: Moon has also advice to expand in the lower area
[10:37] Rose Springvale: no, moon said that would be “easier”… she’ll be at RA on thursday to talk about it
[10:37] Keila Forager: and it may bring a new group to CDS…the mer community…
[10:37] Arria Perreault: as the GMP is not finished: mountains are not easy to design
[10:37] Sudane Erato: do you think anyone other than mermaids would buy underwater land?
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I thnk you would need an undewater city.
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: that is an issue.
[10:38] Keila Forager: Sure..I have an entire area at Kiwano..
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: can we float that in Mermaid groups?
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: I might buy an island but sure no underwater land
[10:38] Arria Perreault: maybe we can adapt a bit the idea of Keila and have some islands
[10:38] Pip Torok: btw is there an LL limit for the height of land?
[10:38] Rose Springvale: okay, those are good points about an underwater area. Any other thoughts on Sandbox?
[10:39] Keila Forager: Then it would be just another sim of beach islands
[10:39] Rose Springvale: Tor brought that up
[10:39] Pip Torok: only that a sandbox is a GOOD idea!
[10:39] Rose Springvale: what are you thinking there Tor?
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Sandbox should be large, maybe 1/4 sim
[10:39] Sudane Erato: i have always wondered with Sandbox how it will be paid for
[10:39] Callipygian Christensen: you could check out Nemo to see what underwater worlds look like
[10:39] Keila Forager: I think a sandbox is an excellant idea
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: should be in the sky to avoid conflits between builds and themes
[10:39] Keila Forager: I have a LM to one in Fruit Islands
[10:39] Keila Forager: sandbox for sure in the skky
[10:39] Pip Torok: if we can pay for it of course
[10:40] Rose Springvale: Sudane, some of the thinking here is that we’d like to add value for our citizens who ‘ve contributed to the huge surplus, and bring in more people along the way
[10:40] Rose Springvale: does anyone think we cannot afford a sandbox?
[10:40] Keila Forager: and you can rent out space for advertising
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I think a sanbox would but us higher in seach for people to drop in
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: find us and buy land
[10:40] Arria Perreault: about this, I agree with Rose
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: true, we could have and ad board.
[10:40] Arria Perreault: it is an infrastructure we can afford
[10:40] Pip Torok: with respect its the continuity of revenue for the sandbox that worries me
[10:40] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:41] Rose Springvale: Pip, look at our budget
[10:41] Keila Forager: OK, if we have a new mountain area…with a sandbox..and make it a park like setting…
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Sandboxes are frequented by many people
[10:41] Rose Springvale: mountains for sandbox? hmm. THAT could be interesting
[10:41] Keila Forager: put the sandbox in the sky and have our mountain area
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: some would buy
[10:41] Wasp Thor: Most of the big sandboxes have stores around them to make money
[10:41] Rose Springvale: we could add skiing too
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: we could offer advantages to citizens
[10:41] Pip Torok: yes … a good surplus for now … i ‘m thinking of the future …
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: like longer rezz time
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: a sandbox in the sky is optimal for building..but does nothing to get people to see the sims
[10:41] Keila Forager: it wouldln’t have to be a full sim
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: people will TP in and out of it
[10:41] Arria Perreault: why not to have both? water sim and mountains?
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol agrees with calli
[10:42] Rose Springvale: i could see us doing both
[10:42] Keila Forager: true…but set the landing point on the ground..
[10:42] Sudane Erato: wouldn’;t the use of the sandbox be restricted to just our citizens?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: but i would put the sandbox on the ground
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: that´s a good idea
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: well we could have the landing point on the gound and teleporter to the sandbox
[10:42] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:42] Rose Springvale: especially if its a mountain
[10:42] Rose Springvale: and i wouldn’t limit to just citizens
[10:42] Keila Forager: If the sandbox is limited , then it’s basically useless for bringing in new people
[10:42] Rose Springvale: there is no place to practice building on a mountainside
[10:42] Callipygian Christensen: put the sandbox underwater
[10:42] Pip Torok: wd agree with Sudane re sandbox
[10:43] Rose Springvale: we can put autoreturn on in that sim
[10:43] Arria Perreault: still a remark with NFS East: how do you see the issue of the gap under NFS East ?
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: i would not limit to citizens, but we could have citizens with extra rights maybe
[10:43] Rose Springvale: perhaps this sandbox mountain could go next to AM
[10:43] Keila Forager: a sandbox should be open to all…
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: eventually fill it in with AM EAST
[10:43] Arria Perreault: we will have an ugly visual gap
[10:43] Rose Springvale: on the east
[10:43] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:43] Arria Perreault: look the model
[10:43] Wasp Thor: You can’t limit a sandbox if you need money to support it
[10:43] Rose Springvale: that lets us plan for nfs east in the next round
[10:43] Keila Forager: we have an ugly visual gap on NFS west right now..
[10:43] Callipygian Christensen: set it for anyone to build..and only residents to run scripts and not have their stuff returned in the auto return..its an incentive to become a citizen
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol notes that we already have such a gap
[10:44] Keila Forager: that won’t work Calli
[10:44] Pip Torok: has there been a history of sandboxes being crowded out by “non-citizens”?
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Calli i was thinking along those lines.
[10:44] Keila Forager: Builders need to have scripts running
[10:44] Rose Springvale: maybe two sandboxes
[10:44] Arria Perreault: yes, we should fill before to go east
[10:44] Rose Springvale: one for anyone, then one for citizens. sims are big
[10:44] Arria Perreault: CDS is in two bands …
[10:44] Rose Springvale: then ski lodge and mountain chalets
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: I think skybeam has multiple sandboxes, some for citizens.
[10:45] Rose Springvale: the problem with nfs west is that .. i don’t know what you’d do with it?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: what would you build there?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: more AM builds?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: or would you put the sandbox there and just landscape?
[10:45] Arria Perreault: an area of cottages like AM and also a ski slope
[10:45] Lilith Ivory loves Mountain chalets
[10:45] Keila Forager: Don’t we already have a ski slope
[10:45] Rose Springvale: i guess the sandbox could be there
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt likes mountains too
[10:45] Arria Perreault: we could have a ski slope on 2 sims
[10:45] Cindy Ecksol: thinking about the sandbox. so…if our intention is to encourage people to become citizens and to ensure that the sandbox is “well behaved” and a nice place to work….makes sense to establish a special “role” in CDS. More than “friend of” but not a citizen….
[10:46] Arria Perreault: the sand box could be there, yes
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt has a problem tho cuz he likes everything.
[10:46] Rose Springvale: sudane, would that physically work? is there any reason building wise at that level?
[10:46] Keila Forager: But if you need to be in a group to build in the sandbox…it will keep people away..
[10:46] Pip Torok: “sandboxer”? …
[10:46] Cindy Ecksol: would require a direct contact with a CDS citizen (to get the privilege) but wouldn’t be onerous — many of us could be authorized to add a new av to the group with tha tprivilege
[10:46] Keila Forager: no reason to come here and use up a group space
[10:46] Rose Springvale: i’d make it public honestly
[10:47] Rose Springvale: and just do auto return
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: Keila, it may keep some away….but I think those looking for a quiet place to build might appreciate it
[10:47] Sudane Erato: i think you can assign a build ability to a group role… but i’m not sure
[10:47] Keila Forager: In Fruit Islands we have a public sandbox with 24 hours return…
[10:47] Rose Springvale: i think you can too, and taht could exempt the group from autoreturn
[10:47] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: still do autoreturn and so on, but it would mean that people building there would be certain to have at least minimal contact with CDS citizens
[10:47] Rose Springvale: leaving the public with whatever we decided
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree on public
[10:48] Rose Springvale: well, theoretically, we can sell ourselves when we get contact
[10:48] Lilith Ivory: we might find some citizens who want to volunteer in the sandbox
[10:48] Rose Springvale: okay, so that’s two good ideas
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: and some of us have to go elsewhere to build, so more of us will be in CDS and available for contact
[10:48] Lilith Ivory: maybe even give building lessons
[10:48] Rose Springvale: three if we count Nfs east
[10:48] Keila Forager: and you have info signs up and notecard givers
[10:48] Rose Springvale: and the new subscribo matic
[10:48] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:48] Arria Perreault: for the financing of the sandbox, I have a suggestion
[10:48] Rose Springvale: other ideas?
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:48] Rose Springvale: lets save financing for the next level of meetings!
[10:49] Wasp Thor: I agree, a sandbox with too many rules is a waste of time and space. A simple time return is all you need
[10:49] Pip Torok: who do we have who can and wish to teach building skills?
[10:49] Rose Springvale: lots of people
[10:49] Arria Perreault: what are the 3 good idea?
[10:49] Rose Springvale: jon used to do great classes
[10:49] Pip Torok: agree with Wasp
[10:49] Keila Forager: I agree Rose
[10:49] Rose Springvale: keila can teach
[10:49] Keila Forager: and I have too
[10:49] Rose Springvale: all the guild
[10:49] Rose Springvale: brian
[10:49] Arria Perreault: I think Atlantis is a good idea too
[10:49] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:49] Cindy Ecksol notes that since she’s been here, no one has taught building
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe those memers would be more active with a decent sb
[10:49] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:49] Keila Forager: I’ve asked about that Cindy
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: personally I’d love some lessons….
[10:50] Keila Forager: said there were classes , but have never seen any
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[10:50] Pip Torok: me too!
[10:50] Keila Forager: Rosie too
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut took a lesson at NCI this morning
[10:50] Rose Springvale: we can work on that Cindy. Faculty had that job, but has been inactive
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie maybe too
[10:50] Arria Perreault: Faculty has tried …
[10:50] Rose Springvale: i know moon has done some professional seminars
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: I can build….but I would love to work with someone on building BIG things….
[10:50] Keila Forager: I love taking classes..and working on writing up a few classes to teach
[10:50] Sudane Erato: yeah , no one wants to volunteer in the Guild to be Faculty organizer
[10:51] Sudane Erato:
[10:51] Arria Perreault: I have even organized a course once
[10:51] Wasp Thor: Atlantis was a Greek myth about a city in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean that sank in pre history. It can be a Greek theme
[10:51] Arria Perreault: yesssss
[10:51] Keila Forager: neptune
[10:51] Sudane Erato: Wasp, but that Atlantis was above water!
[10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Remember the movie, it was sort of multi-cultural
[10:51] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:52] Arria Perreault: at the beginning, Sudane
[10:52] Keila Forager: but I was thinking of the sunk city..LOL
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the idea of the movie that atlantis was a beginning of all our cultures.
[10:52] Arria Perreault: Tor, the reference is not the movie, but Plato
[10:52] Pip Torok: but Tor multicultural amounts to non-cultural!
[10:52] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:52] Rose Springvale: okay, so we have right now, Atlantis, with or without extra water, we have a sandbox/ mountain sim, and we have NFS east
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: well I jsut a thought, i liked the movie when a kid
[10:52] Arria Perreault: it was a kingdom above the sea, but the gods has destroyed it
[10:53] Rose Springvale: other ideas anyone wants to throw out?
[10:53] Arria Perreault: a lot of people have tried to find the remains under the sea in my places
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i heard bermuda triangle lol
[10:53] Lilith Ivory giggles
[10:53] Arria Perreault: for example
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, we could do bermuda.
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:53] Pip Torok: can we get clues from Santorini??
[10:53] Arria Perreault: or Santorini
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: i read that too.
[10:54] Arria Perreault:
[10:54] Rose Springvale: send all the politicians we don’t want anyomre there lol
[10:54] Arria Perreault: the most serious hypothesis
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: One of the islands cna be a vulcano, hence mtn
[10:54] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[10:54] Rose Springvale: santorini has been done in sl a few times
[10:54] Arria Perreault: Plato has mde a fascinating desription of the town
[10:54] Pip Torok: the UK wd fill it up with ours then!
[10:54] Keila Forager gave you Snapshot : Keila’s Hideaway Cay, Kiwano (90, 208, 17).
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he will have to check the free books available on iBooks
[10:55] Arria Perreault: I can put it in the library of the Monastery, if you want
[10:55] Arria Perreault: it is mentionned in 2 books of Plato, Timeus and Critias
[10:55] Pip Torok: hmmm … how about an island with Pompey and Mount Etna smoking ominously??
[10:55] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:55] Arria Perreault:
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: haha and a sim blaster
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we have already one villa
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Torin did that in Roma a while back
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we can make the volcano above the Monastery
[10:56] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:56] Rose Springvale: a volcano in the alps??
[10:56] Sudane Erato: it might destroy all the maunscripts!
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we are in SL
[10:56] Lilith Ivory: maybe next to the roman sims
[10:56] Arria Perreault: everything is possible
[10:57] Rose Springvale: hehe, maybe the monastery … :: ducks::
[10:57] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:57] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:57] Rose Springvale: okay, pip, do you want that included as an idea?
[10:57] Arria Perreault: it was a joke …
[10:57] Pip Torok: lets say a semijoke …
[10:57] Arria Perreault: I only want a long ski slope
[10:58] Arria Perreault: there are systems to count the time
[10:58] Arria Perreault: it can be fun
[10:58] Wasp Thor: Are we seriously considering a sandbox?
[10:58] Keila Forager: Has anyone been to Tahoa…they did have an awesome snow tubing and bobsled run..
[10:58] Pip Torok: yes Wasp …
[10:59] Arria Perreault: yes (I had even an idea to finance it)
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, our time is up for today
[10:59] Rose Springvale: thank you all for participating!
[10:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yw
[10:59] Rose Springvale: i expect we will have a few more of these sessions, then talk in RA
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:59] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[10:59] Arria Perreault: fine for me
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: I enjoyed this conversation.
[11:00] Rose Springvale: RA members, bring your feasiblity questions on Thursday, moon adamant will be available for most of the time
[11:00] Pip Torok: will you publish this transcript Rose?
[11:00] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:00] Rose Springvale: provided no one said anything while i was crashed!
[11:00] Pip Torok: good!
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: no you were not gone long.
[11:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:00] Lilith Ivory: I can give you the missing part
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Volcanos and water . . . Like Stromboli?
[11:00] Wasp Thor: we said nice things about you
[11:01] Wasp Thor: hahahahaha
[11:01] Soro Dagostino: North of Sicily . . .
[11:01] Pip Torok: yes … makes life exciting ….
[11:01] Rose Springvale: Everyone, enjoy oktoberfest, i think there is a ballon festival starting soon

Permalink.

RA Meeting 7 October 2010

Transcript, RA meeting October 7, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:11 pm
[12:05] Rose Springvale: I will go ahead and open here while we wait for others to come, as you see we have afull agenda
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … as usual
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Welcome, and remember that we are transcripting.
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[12:06] Pip Torok: hi Arria …!
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: she made it
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Mikelo
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Muhammed
[12:06] Rose Springvale: I apologize for the mixup last week, my rl client wouldn’t stop talking. We will entertain concerns of citizens now. Hi Arria
[12:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Keila
[12:07] Rose Springvale: i see we have some citiznes here today.. anyone want to speak?
[12:07] Fern Leissa: No thank you
[12:07] Jeroma Wycliffe: No concerns here
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Jeroma
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi citizens!)
[12:07] Jeroma Wycliffe: Hi Arria
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Arria!)
[12:07] Rose Springvale: ahhh, nice to have happy citizens
[12:07] Keila Forager: Hi everyone…sorry was afk
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi everyone
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
[12:07] Rose Springvale: any RA members in your role as citizens?
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
[12:08] Jamie Palisades nods, smiles, listens
[12:08] Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
[12:08] Keila Forager: Hi Jamie
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: howdy, stranger
[12:08] Rose Springvale: hello Jamie. we are taking concerns of citizens if you have any
[12:08] Jamie Palisades: Nhot a one, I;m sure our government is handling everything just fine.
[12:08] Jamie Palisades: But thanks.
[12:09] Rose Springvale: well, if no one has concerns, is there any objection to jumping right in with the business of the day?
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (nice to see you, Jamie!)
[12:09] Keila Forager: No objection
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no objections…
[12:09] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: all happy bunnies
[12:09] Rose Springvale: okay… Any additions or corrections to the agenda?
[12:10] Rose Springvale: i don’t think we have any 7 day votes to report..
[12:10] Rose Springvale: so we will happily hop into commission reports
[12:10] Rose Springvale: Lilith?
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: I sheduled another Commerce meeting today
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very good
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: it will take place at thuesday 10am in the termae
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: hope that works for you
[12:11] Kaseido Quandry: thanks, Rose!
[12:11] Rose Springvale: hi Kas. great Lilith. Any feedback on the direct tp?
[12:11] Arria Perreault: Hi Kas
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: we´re going to make a list of ideas we had already
[12:11] Kaseido Quandry: hi Arria
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: and try to find out how to make them work
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: done
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (love you, Kas
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry: lol, sorry Gwyn!
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wasn’t complaining
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry:
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Tor is not able to be here today, so we’ll skip finance.
[12:13] Rose Springvale: unless someone else is reporting?
[12:13] Kaseido Quandry: hi Lil
[12:13] Kaseido Quandry: I’m trying to figure out Viewer 2, so please excuse my spazziness
[12:13] Rose Springvale: smiles at just in time Kas.. do you have a comms report?
[12:13] Keila Forager: Good luck..hehe
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh congrats on your courage!
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: no choice – the TOS bug has me locked out of Imprudence
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: Um… yes!
[12:14] Rose Springvale: you have the floor
[12:14] Keila Forager: log in with regular sl viewer, then log in with immprudence..
[12:14] Keila Forager: that’s what I did
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: once you click ok, you can come back in with imprudence, I’m sure
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: OK, at the last comms meeting we… did stuff, and had a recommendation
[12:14] Pip Torok: TOS bug? :-0
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: oh, thanks, Mikelo, Keila!
[12:15] Rose Springvale: stuff and recommendation?
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: Um, can we come back to me once I remember what we *did* last meeting? sorry!
[12:15] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:15] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:15] Rose Springvale: surrrrre
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry headdesks
[12:15] Rose Springvale: i know gwyn is excited to get started anyway
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I am? lol
[12:16] Rose Springvale: Note cards with proposed legislation and agenda in the box for anyone who needs it
[12:16] Rose Springvale: yes, you are almost finished!
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew I hope so
[12:16] Rose Springvale: so … campaign act, take 5
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should I repeat the reasoning for the current proposal?
[12:17] Rose Springvale: sure, for the record
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. So… this is actually a proposal a bit “outside” the Election Commission
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you remember, *every* time we discuss this,
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either in the commission,
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or at the RA,
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s clear that we’re cleanly split among the ones that want free-for-all campaigning,
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the ones that want at least some rules and guidelines to establish “common sense”
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The latter have brought up better arguments
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely… if we don’t restrict group notices to any citizem
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why should we restrict it to *candidates*?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If anyone can announce events,
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why can’t candidates do the same?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, philosophically,
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how can we stick to the pillar of freedom of expression,
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but limit what and how campaigning has to be done?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last argument — “campaigning will deface our community and merchants will be hurt, because it will drive consumers away”,
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was pretty much shattered
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: when some of us pointed out that we have so little traffic anyway…
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this proposal is pretty much an attempt to establish free-for-all campaigning,
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but remind to candidates,
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that at least SOME things are restricted in spite of everything.
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Spamming is disallowed by the ToS — LL imposes that, not us
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we cannot accept spamming.
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We cannot wildly deface the community with signs, banners, flags
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there are Covenants which say what can be done and how
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and there is an Executive to check on this
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the other hand,
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we cannot “restrict” freedom of expression,
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we are allowed to check that at least some common sense prevails.
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This “check” is not contrary to the spirit of the UDHR; in fact, the UDHR explicitly states that
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. some radical forms of “freedom of expression” like griefing to attack political adversaries etc. will NOT be allowed
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note….
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty much everything on this proposal,
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is “in force” right now.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is mostly a “reminder” of the facts, not exactly a “change of legislation”.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two things are, indeed, changes.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First, campaigning restrictions were set up on the Coinstitution.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to repeal that article.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Secondly, it was not clear how long campaigning lasts. Sticking to tradition,
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which commonly interpreted campaigning to be two weeks
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one before pools open,
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one during open polls,
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *booths
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this Act clarifies that “assumption” and re-states that the campaigning is for 2 weeks
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s pretty much everything… as an intro… now let the discussion begin
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn bows
[12:25] Rose Springvale: nice recap gwyn!
[12:25] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[12:25] Pip Torok: hands up
[12:25] Keila Forager: I’m good
[12:25] Rose Springvale: pip
[12:25] Arria Perreault: /raises hand
[12:25] Rose Springvale: go on pip, then arria
[12:26] Pip Torok: imo there wd be “good taste” etc … because anything else wd lose votes for the candidate
[12:26] Pip Torok: done
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[12:26] Rose Springvale: thanks pip
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Arria?
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi raises hand
[12:27] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:27] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, are you talking about the Campaigning article we voted in the 12th RA?
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that too. Maybe this would have to add a line,
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that “this act supercedes NL 12-???”
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sadly, that bill was not published on the Code of Laws when I tried to find it
[12:28] Arria Perreault: this articles did not pass. I have asked the SC about the validity of the bill that came with. The SC has decided that the bill is valid, but with a restriction (about its role, I think)
[12:29] Rose Springvale thinks that would make it more clear. a lot of confusion on that issue
[12:29] Rose Springvale: adding the supercede language
[12:29] Arria Perreault: must be somewhere on the forum
[12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Arria. If we can get the law’s correct number, I move to add: 5. This act supercedes NL 12-???
[12:29] Arria Perreault: but if we abrogate it today, it’s ok
[12:30] Rose Springvale: done arria?
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll give teh RA Archivist a chance to look it up and number it correctly
[12:30] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:30] Rose Springvale: Mikelo?
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: It sounds like a reasonable proposal, only, if it’s the same as what we have, why change it?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: NL 12-2 (but it’s not on the portal, only in the forum)
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: or rather, we could amend the current
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no… wait… not “the same”, mikelo!
[12:31] Pip Torok: Mikelo … presumably it formalises it
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me explain.
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could have a one-line act,
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: saying “NL 12-2 is deleted”
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (plus Const. amendmem)
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we could have just one line,
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Campaigning starts officially two weeks before the last election day.
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a needed clarification, because it’s not obvious)
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 2. This act supercedes NL 12-2
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, one of our founding principles,
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: long neglected…
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I agree it should be clarified
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … is that bills also should educate and clarify
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus the longer wording, of things that *should* be obvious and *are* in effect.
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also,
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it points to one thing that worried the citizens
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who oversees everything?
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… this mentions: “Covenants have to be respected”
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes, that was my other question
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Overseeing: Executive (by law)
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also mentions…. “we have to respect public order”
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Overseeing: Executive; appeal to SC (also in law)
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It mentions… we forbid griefing, spamming, libel, defamation
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Overseeing: SC
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, griefing is SC
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: griefing is Exec hehe sorry
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn is slowly getting confused
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this act, by “refreshing our collective memories”
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: I get what you mean though, the recourse is clear
[12:35] Pip Torok: isnt griefing TOS?
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: also implies oversight by the branches
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[12:35] Rose Springvale: okay ? others?
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip: yes! So the Exec can immediately kick, ban, AR (but the citizen can recourse to the SC)
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: although I was specifically wondering how we define spamming
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t. We use LL’s interpretation.
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: people have different thresholds
[12:36] Pip Torok: do they mikelo … not to LL at least!
[12:36] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks. Any other comments?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: if not, i’ll entertain a motion
[12:37] Rose Springvale: and i think it needs to be two part
[12:37] Rose Springvale: the constitutional amendment, then the act
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL ToS: “8.3 You agree that you will not post or transmit Content or code that may be harmful, impede other users’ functionality, invade other users’ privacy, or surreptitiously or negatively impact any system or network.” with (ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of “junk mail,” “spam,” “chain letters,” “pyramid schemes,” or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature;”
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with the procedure, Rose. Two parts
[12:38] Rose Springvale: I’ll note with regret that Timo has resigned from the RA, so we sit as a 12 member body. 2/3 vote required to pass the constitutional amendment, so 8 votes
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: oh, so LL reserves the right to define it
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Mikelo)
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: which doesn’t answer my question
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: but, I think realistically, we’ll know it when we see it
[12:38] Pip Torok: yes Mikelo .. and has always done so
[12:39] Rose Springvale: so … need a motion?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: or …. not i guess…
[12:40] Rose Springvale: gwyn do you want to move it onto the floor?
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: gwyn must be afk
[12:40] Kaseido Quandry: Move to delete Article IV, section 4 of the Constitution?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: thanks
[12:40] Pip Torok: second
[12:40] Rose Springvale: though is it a question or a motion kas?
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds and apologises for being momentarily afk
[12:41] Kaseido Quandry: Um, if I got it right, that’s a motion
[12:41] AA Express: 0:particles on
[12:41] Rose Springvale: great. Further discussion?
[12:41] Rose Springvale: ready to vote?
[12:41] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[12:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure
[12:41] Pip Torok: aye
[12:41] Rose Springvale: seeing no typing… All in favor please signify by saying aye
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:41] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:41] Keila Forager: aye
[12:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:41] Pip Torok: aye
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:41] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:42] Rose Springvale: wonderful, thank you, as its constitutional i’ll register aye as well
[12:42] Rose Springvale: motion carries
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo
[12:42] Rose Springvale: one more step gwyn
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles off
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles on
[12:42] Rose Springvale: want to move the act please?
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles off
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles on
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles off
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure… move to approve Campaigning Act, as per the following text (note point 5. as a friendly amendment)
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Campaigning starts officially two weeks before the last election day.
2. Candidates are encouraged to use good taste and common sense in conducting campaigns. Campaigning is an act of peaceful assembly and the exercise of freedom of expression and thus protected by Articles 19 and 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
3. Campaigning is only restricted by other existing laws, namely:
a. The Linden Lab Terms of Service and Community Standards (which forbid griefing and spamming);
b. The CDS Covenants (which limit the defacing of buildings and public spaces);
c. UDHR Article 12 (which forbids defamation and libel);
d. UDHR Article 29 (2) (which allows restrictions to be set by law to give due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and comply with requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society);
4. Candidates are encouraged to announce their events and meetings via the Public
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5. This Act supercedes NL 12-2
[12:43] Rose Springvale: second?
[12:43] Kaseido Quandry: second
[12:43] Pip Torok: second
[12:43] Rose Springvale: further discussion?
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: it’s well-written, gwyn
[12:44] Rose Springvale: if not, simple majority is all that is needed, all in favor?
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mikelo
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:44] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:44] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[12:44] Pip Torok: aye
[12:44] Keila Forager: aye
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:44] Rose Springvale: arria?
[12:44] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:45] Rose Springvale: thank you. Motion carries. Thank you gwyn
[12:45] Rose Springvale: nice work
[12:45] Kaseido Quandry: woohoo! Great work, Gwyn, thank you!
[12:45] Rose Springvale: and you did have to work on it!
[12:45] Rose Springvale: thank you to all the RA members for your patience and diligence on this.
[12:46] Rose Springvale: One more question to the elections commission chair, then we’ll give her a well deserved break
[12:46] Arria Perreault: may I a remark?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: We have approximately 5 meetings left in the term
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: wow
[12:46] Rose Springvale: technically we should have a by election?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: and of course arria, one moment
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes… because of Timo….
[12:47] Rose Springvale: realistically, i know the SC is meeting on the 13th i think
[12:47] Rose Springvale: suspect there isn’t time
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript, RA meeting October 7, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:14 pm
[12:47] Rose Springvale: ?
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: its pretty close
[12:48] Rose Springvale: Arria go ahead please, no need to speculate i guess, SC jurisdiction on that
[12:48] Arria Perreault: we really need an updated election guide (as well for citizen as for candidates)
[12:48] Pip Torok: (hi Alexia)
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Hi Alexia
[12:49] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[12:49] Rose Springvale: i agree, as well as someone to do the STV explanation. No one has volunteered
[12:49] Rose Springvale: i’ve been told that Claude Desmoulins has done one for the SC though
[12:49] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:49] Rose Springvale: do you want to follow up ?
[12:50] Arria Perreault: follow up?
[12:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy also sort of volunteered once to do the STV FAQ….
[12:50] Rose Springvale: perhaps the communications commission, is that where the STV guide came from?
[12:50] Rose Springvale: okay.
[12:51] Kaseido Quandry: I’m pretty sure it was from Elections
[12:51] Rose Springvale: follow up… means ask those people if they are interested in doing a guide
[12:51] Kalnins InfoChannel owned by Maris Kanto gave you ‘Female Sandals – Flirt’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Copley%20Square/224/38/3457 ).
[12:51] Rose Springvale: yes, maybe
[12:51] Rose Springvale looks guiltily at gwyneth
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
[12:51] Rose Springvale: maybe you could have a commission member folllow up
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t understand it either hehe
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but ok,
[12:51] Kaseido Quandry: lol, neither do I
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll try to ask Cindy again if she’s willing; she seemed to be able to do STV maths in her dreams
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Pat
[12:52] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: She got me great tips for the upcoming election!
[12:52] Rose Springvale: anything else from/for elections?
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:52] Jamie Palisades choices on his tea. Dreaming in STV. That’s not a high recommendation for their quality of life.
[12:52] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry laughs
[12:52] Rose Springvale: okay, lets move on the Citizenship, we are doing well today
[12:52] Pip Torok: hi Jamie
[12:53] Rose Springvale: Arria, you have the floor
[12:53] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:53] Rose Springvale: draft notecard is in the box
[12:53] Arria Perreault: I will make some remarks as introduction
[12:54] Arria Perreault: the Citizen Commission has hold three meetings.
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Our discussions were constructive.
[12:54] Arria Perreault: The result is the law we have to discuss
[12:55] Arria Perreault: there is no constitutionnal change
[12:55] Arria Perreault: the link between land and citizenship is still maintained, but it’s more flexible
[12:56] Arria Perreault: we have determined 3 ways to get citizenship
[12:56] Arria Perreault: to be an owner of a land anywhere in CDS
[12:57] Arria Perreault: like today
[12:57] Arria Perreault: then we have modified the group owned land citizenship of today
[12:58] Arria Perreault: this bill revocate the former one
[12:58] Arria Perreault: and finally it is possible to become citizen by sponsoring a part of public land
[12:59] Arria Perreault: in this version of the bill, the minimum part of land to be citizen is 256
[12:59] Arria Perreault: potentially, CDS could host 1280 citizen with it
[12:59] Arria Perreault: this value can be discussed
[13:00] Arria Perreault: because we have currently parcels of 128 msq
[13:00] Arria Perreault: we have also make sure that this bill could not endanger our finances, especially with sponsoring
[13:01] Arria Perreault: the RA will have to approve the list of parcels that can be sponsored
[13:02] Arria Perreault: finally we did not retain the possibility to give citizenship to partners
[13:02] Arria Perreault: it was discussed in the commission
[13:02] Arria Perreault: people have considered it could be solved with group
[13:02] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: great intro, Arria! Thanks!
[13:03] Rose Springvale: thank you Arria, again, great recap
[13:03] Rose Springvale: Discussion
[13:03] Keila Forager: /raises hand
[13:03] Pip Torok seconds gwyneth in this
[13:03] Rose Springvale: keila
[13:03] Keila Forager: I have a question. If I buy a parcel of land that is 128sqm or less from say Lilith, that I can erect a structure on, I still can not be a citizen per 11a. Is that correct??
[13:04] Rose Springvale: (quick count shows about 50 parcels in CDS that are below 256 m… 40 in nfs, about 10 in CN)
[13:04] Kaseido Quandry: No, I think you can’t be a citizen per (2)
[13:05] Arria Perreault: it is seen so in the law currently. people who owns such parcels can stay citizen
[13:05] Arria Perreault: but we can amend the law
[13:05] Arria Perreault: 256 is only for group and sponsor
[13:05] Keila Forager: but if I buy her land and she’s a citizen, the way it’s worded makes it sound like I can not be a citizen
[13:05] Kaseido Quandry: that’s not what it says now – have you changed your proposal?
[13:06] Keila Forager: and that is wrong.
[13:06] Kaseido Quandry: I read 11 as applying only to the grandfathered mini-parcels
[13:06] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we amend the law
[13:06] Arria Perreault: it’s still a proposal
[13:06] Kaseido Quandry is confused
[13:06] Rose Springvale: yes .. Arria did your commission intend that fachwerks in NFS not be citizen ship granting parcels?
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn is also confused.
[13:07] Keila Forager: ok..no further questions from me..
[13:07] Arria Perreault: no, Rose
[13:07] Arria Perreault: and Calli has made a remark in the forum about that
[13:07] Keila Forager: I think all people OWNING a parcel should be citizens regardless of size
[13:07] Rose Springvale: tha’ts what the draft implies. so maybe you mean… only for group ownership purposes does the 256 minimum apply?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: and for sponsorship
[13:07] Kaseido Quandry: that doesn’t make much sense
[13:08] Rose Springvale: maybe we can look at this piece by piecs
[13:08] Keila Forager: 11.
a. The avatars who are citizen only by owning a parcel of 128 mq before the adoption of the current law stay CDS citizen. This citizenship is not transferable to the next owner of these parcels. The Executive has the right to buy the parcel for its official price.[/i] [13:08] Rose Springvale: lets focus first on straight outright ownership
[13:08] Keila Forager: says nothing about group
[13:08] Arria Perreault: or we can list the parcels of NFS and CN and consider as exceptions
[13:08] Rose Springvale: Any change intended thers?
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: I think if the author of the bill doesn’t know what she wants to propose, this isn’t ready for consideration
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we are just discussing Kas, this is first reading
[13:09] Rose Springvale: and its hard
[13:09] Rose Springvale: so lets work together if we can?
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: OK- but I think this is exactly what the committees are for
[13:09] Arria Perreault: we can change 2
[13:09] Rose Springvale: arria, lets go through one by one
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: imo we shouldkeep the small parcels in NFS and CN but go with bigger parcels for sponsoring
[13:10] Rose Springvale: does your commission want a change in regular singer avatar land ownership?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: single
[13:10] Rose Springvale: sorry
[13:10] Arria Perreault: 2. The smallest size for a parcel is 128 msq. The smallest size for a sponsored location or a part of a group-owned parcel is 256 mq.
[13:10] Rose Springvale: actually
[13:10] Rose Springvale: we have smaller parces than 128 too
[13:11] Arria Perreault: no, we did not change anything about single owner
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins because she has one parcel smaller than 128 m2
[13:11] Arria Perreault: what is the smallest value?
[13:11] Pip Torok agrees with keila in that size shouldn’t matter
[13:11] Rose Springvale: i see 4 on the platz at 96 m
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[13:11] Arria Perreault: 2. The smallest size for a sponsored location or a part of a group-owned parcel is 256 mq.
[13:11] Rose Springvale: looking at the land charts here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= … ET2c&gid=0
[13:12] Kaseido Quandry: What’s the rationale for different minimums?
[13:13] Arria Perreault: better not to mention a value for parcels of single owner …
[13:13] Rose Springvale: what is the current law pertainign to group minimums?
[13:14] Rose Springvale: seems like 128 is the law now, with some extra requirements?
[13:14] Arria Perreault: 128
[13:15] Rose Springvale: so that’s where that number comes from. And i think… reading between the lines, the commission wants to increase that minimum?
[13:15] Arria Perreault: we have to see how many citizen a group-owned parcel can make
[13:16] Arria Perreault: with 128, the Monastery parcel/group can provide citizenship to 24 people
[13:16] Arria Perreault: with 256, 12 people
[13:16] Rose Springvale: wouldn’t that be cool?
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:16] Rose Springvale: more citizens!
[13:16] Arria Perreault: we have to decide
[13:17] Rose Springvale: what do you all thinkg? should we have the option to have more citizens even without more land?
[13:17] Arria Perreault: with this law, we can have potentially 1280 citizen
[13:17] Arria Perreault: of course, we can double this number
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, so long as it isn’t 16 m2 (the microparcels we used to have…) I’m fine with pretty much everything
[13:17] Rose Springvale: feels gwyn getting excited
[13:17] Pip Torok: imo no …. tho i’d like to hear arguments for this
[13:17] Kaseido Quandry:
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine to raise the bar a little and set the minimum at 256 m2 as proposed (we’ll have to start *somewhere*)
[13:18] Keila Forager: As long as those citizens were active citizens and not just citizens to vote for “friends”
[13:18] Rose Springvale: i don’t think the founders intended us to be a democracy of land barons
[13:18] Pip Torok: exactly my point Keila
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Keila, but it’s incredibly hard to figure out who is an active citizen and who isn’t… for instance, I’m sure I’m NOT an active citizen!
[13:18] Rose Springvale: comparatively, you are one of the most active gwyn!
[13:18] Arria Perreault: it’s a danger, of course
[13:18] Keila Forager: yes you are Gwyn, you are part of the RA..
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, having a few of those people in mind, I’m SURE that they didn’t want land barons hehe
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol @ Rose
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we have make sure everything is transparent
[13:19] Rose Springvale: so the question i have is… what is the risk?
[13:19] Pip Torok: well imo a citizen is active when they attend and speak at any RA meeting or commission meeting
[13:19] Arria Perreault: there will be lists
[13:19] Keila Forager: If a citizen is never seen at a meeting, or events or participating in activities or commissions or building on group land, they are not active
[13:19] Rose Springvale: what about writing on the forum
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the risk is having lots of people bring their friends in and get elected… but… isn’t that good, at the end of the day?
[13:19] Rose Springvale: that’s my point gwyn, seems like a win win to me
[13:19] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Gwyn
[13:20] Rose Springvale: you get people who are passionate
[13:20] Arria Perreault: both the owner and the future citizen have to notify to the Treasurer
[13:20] Pip Torok: i’d count that as long as they also are active inworld
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not against having passionate people, new people, who want to vote on their friends!
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we may not always agree.. but they support the project by their presence
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: are we talking about enforcing participation?
[13:20] Arria Perreault: every citizen will get a tier box and has to come in-world to pay
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I’m sure we aren’, Mikelo — and Arria, at least that, yes!
[13:20] Keila Forager: Niether am I Gwyn, but if that is their only purpose, I see that as the end of CDS as it was intended
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have to come inworld at leas once per month
[13:21] Rose Springvale: frankly, i’ve no problem with taxpayers who visit once in a while but keep up their tier… hehe
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, Keila. The problem is less about “friends” (who are supposed to be active…) but “alts” or “dead accounts”
[13:21] Pip Torok: Mikelo … have you ever seen committee-members IRL sleeping at meetings? I have ….
[13:21] Arria Perreault: and the owner of the group cannot kick off a member, if he/she get citizenship this way
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, Arria….
[13:21] Keila Forager: and what if they do Arria?
[13:21] Kaseido Quandry: wait, whoa –
[13:21] Rose Springvale: how can we enforce that though?
[13:22] Keila Forager: You can’t enforce a group?
[13:22] Kaseido Quandry: so that means group owners lose enforcement powers over their own membership?
[13:22] Rose Springvale: private groups
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CDS-controlled groups?
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a possibility…
[13:22] Rose Springvale: so long as we have other options to retain citizenship
[13:22] Rose Springvale: i’m not sure we should worry about that
[13:22] Rose Springvale: groups should be autonomous
[13:22] Keila Forager: But group land doesn’t have to be related to CDS at all..
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I know…
[13:23] Keila Forager: I had my group set on NFS
[13:23] Pip Torok: its for this reason that I was and am against group citizenship …
[13:23] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, if the owner of a group want to provide citizenship to people, he/she has rome duties regarding CDS laws
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: it is a slippery slope, to be sure
[13:23] Keila Forager: And right now I’m a group citizen..and that group has nothing to do with CDS
[13:23] Rose Springvale: so … if we have sponsorships… do we need groups?
[13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, I’m not a fan of group membership; however, in this case — as in many others — there is the will of the majority of the citizens to consider, and a LOT want groups
[13:23] Arria Perreault: the group has to own a land
[13:23] Rose Springvale: it just helps with tier i guess
[13:24] Arria Perreault: the group has to have a charter
[13:24] Rose Springvale: though with the fluctuation with the lindens… who knows?
[13:24] Pip Torok: but do a MAJORITY want groups, gwyn?
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t ask them, Pip… Nevertheless we also protect minorities’ rights here
[13:24] Arria Perreault: 7b: The group which gives citizenship can decide the way it is organized. The organization and the possibility to get citizenship must be mentionned in the charter of the group. The charter and the member list of the group are public.
[13:24] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, there’s a difference between not wanting to be in a landowning group, and wanting to ban landowning groups
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: I didn’t get the feeling too many wanted group citizenship
[13:25] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, do you think sponsorship option can replace groups?
[13:25] Rose Springvale: for citizenship purposes?
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was going to ask the same question….
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:25] Pip Torok: I take your point, Kas
[13:25] Rose Springvale: i think it can too
[13:25] Keila Forager: My group had a charter..
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: well, doesn’t that force people to pay twice?
[13:25] Rose Springvale: how Kas?
[13:25] Keila Forager: Keila’s Hideaway Cay is now Keila and Richie’s Hideaway Cay……A group created for the friends of Keila and Richie. Come and enjoy our piece of paradise in Kiwano. If you wish to join this group please IM Keila Forager or Richie Deschanel.[/i] [13:25] Kaseido Quandry: OK, say I deeded my property to group, and got a couple rommmates to help pay tier
[13:26] Keila Forager: that was my charter
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps we should ask Arria & the commission what they feel about that. How different would it be if all group members who wish to become citizens simply apply for sponsorship*
[13:26] Kaseido Quandry: Roomie is paying, say, 1/4 my tier, but isn’t a citizen – and if she wants citizenship, she has to buy into CDS *agian*
[13:26] Rose Springvale: i see one difference… CDS gets more money lol
[13:26] Rose Springvale: ah yes kas, makes sense
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, excellent argument, Kas…
[13:26] Arria Perreault: right, it will help to finance public infrastructure
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Double taxing, now that’s something I’m not happy with…
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think it’s that hard to just buy a parcel
[13:27] Rose Springvale looks at our bank balance ans isn’t worried about the infrastructure
[13:27] Kaseido Quandry: No, it’ll create a second class of nonvoting tier payers, in practice
[13:27] Rose Springvale: so… keep groups
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… your argument is good, Kas… no way to get around that
[13:27] Keila Forager: Why buy a parcel if the only reason is to help with tier or vote
[13:27] Rose Springvale: but i don’t think we should legisltat groups
[13:28] Rose Springvale: if we have opportunities to sponsor, then group owners should be free to eject anyone they want
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: If we do away with group citizenship, then we don’t have to worry about governing them
[13:28] Rose Springvale: they are the one losing the tier cotribution
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… in that case, Rose, what happens if someone is kicked out of a group but still wants to be a citizen?
[13:28] Arria Perreault: does want the RA replace group-owned parcels citizenship by sponsor citizenship?
[13:28] Kaseido Quandry: that’s a problem, Gwyn
[13:28] Rose Springvale: they pay for sponsorship then
[13:28] Rose Springvale: they wont’ have group tier responsibility
[13:28] Kaseido Quandry: mm, right
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, it’s under 7b:
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know…
[13:28] Arria Perreault: the owner cannot put someone away in this case
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the group owner can simply ignore it
[13:29] Arria Perreault: in this case, he is outlaw
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. imagine, they leave the CDS
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ignore everything
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now one group member actually loves the CDS and wants to remain a citizen
[13:29] Rose Springvale: maybe a notificatiosn. but i can’t support telling group owners who they can and can’t eject
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but cannot affor a parcel (or none are for sale)
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: so they buy a parcel
[13:29] Keila Forager: And if a group owner leaves with the land, so do all the group citizens.
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* ok, Mikelo, you’re right
[13:30] Rose Springvale: but if sponsorship is the same cost as minimum group ownership, no loss to the citizen
[13:30] Kaseido Quandry nods
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: I did like that sponsor idea, for people who don’t want to build
[13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what I was thinking too, Rose….
[13:30] Keila Forager: and land and tier in CDS is very expensive
[13:30] Kaseido Quandry: I agree, Mikelo, it’s nice
[13:30] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, this way will be not very attractive for land owners, because of the duties
[13:30] Rose Springvale: so this is not a bad mix, just need some tweaks
[13:30] Pip Torok: imo the principle of telling a group-owner who his/her members should be is a dangerous precedent (how does this square with LL and TOST btw?)
[13:30] Rose Springvale: well, i don’t think we should punish landowners
[13:31] Rose Springvale: people stop likeing each other all the time in sl
[13:31] Kaseido Quandry: Good question, Pip
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I think that there is a strong feeling that we should strike 7 from the bill
[13:31] Keila Forager: We can not tell a group owner how to run their group..bottom line
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7b I mean
[13:31] Rose Springvale: and so long as we have a way for them to retain citizenship, there isn’t a good reason
[13:31] Rose Springvale: agrees with gwyn
[13:31] Rose Springvale: maybe
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… with these two changes…. 256 m2 as the minimum for everything…. and 7b stricken down… can we agree on the rest
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
[13:32] Rose Springvale: when a group member is evicted, they can get an auto message at the tier box offering sponsorship citizenship
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes… a simple procedure
[13:32] Kaseido Quandry: nice!!
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one that can be automated
[13:32] Rose Springvale: well, so long as we agree that regardless of parcel size, land ownership = citizenship
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: definitely
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will not agree to anything else hehe
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: I’d agree with that, within reason
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: 128 is quite reasonable
[13:33] Rose Springvale: do we want to try to redraft or send back and look at it next week?
[13:33] Rose Springvale: we’ve still got a few minutes
[13:33] Keila Forager: I don’t agree with 11a
[13:33] Pip Torok: i would suggest that this be done
[13:34] Arria Perreault: about 7b, I suggest we erase only the first sentence
[13:34] Arria Perreault: the rest is about transparency
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally, I’m fine with just removing 7b and 256 m2
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you wish to retain the rest of 7b,
[13:34] Keila Forager: I think all of 7b needs to go
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then we should change “must” to “are encouraged to”
[13:34] Rose Springvale: shouldn’t the citizenship issues be dealt with by the treasurer? i think 7b goes too
[13:35] Kaseido Quandry: yes, strike it all
[13:35] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:35] Keila Forager: they shouldn’t have to add a refernce at all to CDS if it’s not a cds group
[13:35] Pip Torok: but “The group which gives citizenship can decide the way it( ?) is organised” is redundant ….
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: so all of 7?
[13:35] Rose Springvale: there are groups where not all group members are citiznes
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… 7a is ok, Mikelo
[13:35] Rose Springvale: all my land is in one
[13:36] Rose Springvale: 7a clarifies that there is no more need to do that land purchase and exchange thing
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[13:36] Rose Springvale: which has been a mess forever
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I second motion to send back the proposal
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: to the commission
[13:37] Rose Springvale: was there a motion? i’m sorry i missed, i thought we wer redrafting
[13:37] Rose Springvale: who made the motion to send back
[13:37] Rose Springvale: ?
[13:37] Kaseido Quandry: I didn’t see a motion
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Pip made a motion
[13:37] Pip Torok: muh meant the suggestion you made Rose
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[13:38] Pip Torok: no i didnt muh! )
[13:38] Rose Springvale: oh, well, i didn’t make a motion. i think we are almost there!
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok – I wilöll wait
[13:38] Arria Perreault: I think I can quickly write the changes
[13:39] Pip Torok: I propose the document is sent back to the commission for redrafting
[13:39] muhammedyussif Wikinger: is that not a motion?
[13:39] Rose Springvale: i think so too arria, i think only three changes
[13:39] Pip Torok: (that is my motion)
[13:39] Rose Springvale: okay we’ve got a motion and second, but we think we can finish…
[13:40] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I second
[13:40] Rose Springvale: so all in favor of sending back, please indicate with aye
[13:40] Arria Perreault: what is the third?
[13:40] Rose Springvale: sending back now.
[13:40] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:40] Pip Torok: aye
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no — I’m fine in waiting for Arria’s changes
[13:40] Kaseido Quandry: no
[13:40] Keila Forager: no
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: nay
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[13:40] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:40] muhammedyussif Wikinger: sigh
[13:40] Rose Springvale: motion fails.
[13:40] Rose Springvale: okay arria
[13:41] Arria Perreault: what is the third change?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: I have the 256, the 7b
[13:41] Rose Springvale: 11
[13:41] Rose Springvale: i think a can go
[13:41] Arria Perreault: right
[13:41] Rose Springvale: anyone see others?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: 11 a only?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: right
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: there are people voting for $100L?
[13:42] Rose Springvale: yes, i think… two months seems fair
[13:42] Rose Springvale: have been for years mikelo
[13:42] Arria Perreault: it’s 2 terms in the bill
[13:42] Keila Forager: Yes Mikelo, I am
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: ack
[13:42] Keila Forager: not only voting, but serving
[13:43] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: I guess this is a sort of sponsorship
[13:43] Rose Springvale: do you have it Arria?
[13:43] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:43] Arria Perreault: in 11, I keep 2 terms?
[13:44] Rose Springvale: i think two terms is fine… other thoughts on that ? transitional phase?
[13:44] Rose Springvale: not like we are hurting for that extra 150 L in cash
[13:44] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: right
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 150 here, 150 there… it all adds up
[13:45] Rose Springvale: lol
[13:45] Rose Springvale: to 11 K usd lol
[13:45] Arria Perreault: I have a notecard
[13:45] Rose Springvale: if you give it to me i’ll put it in the box
[13:45] Arria Perreault gave you Citizen Bill (October 2010) updated.
[13:45] Rose Springvale: now you can all pick it up,
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh just for fun, what does “mq” stand for? I thought it would be “mètres carrés” but then it should be “mc”
[13:46] Rose Springvale: meters quared of course
[13:46] Rose Springvale:
[13:46] Kaseido Quandry giggles
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meters quared. Right
[13:46] Rose Springvale: we will let the archivist fix the typos!
[13:46] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, it’s not important… if everybody knows and understands this is supposed to mean “squared metres”, I’m fine.
[13:47] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:47] Rose Springvale: this looks good to me. others see issues?
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and not any other measure… and we all get suddenly kicked out because it actually meant a completely different size!)
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn shuts up
[13:48] Keila Forager: The rights of a group-owned parcel citizen on the parcel is defined in the group charter.
[13:48] Rose Springvale: smiels at gwyn and thinks of other things to send to the elections commission
[13:48] Keila Forager: I don’t think that needs to be there
[13:48] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not seeing where there’s a limit on how many to a group
[13:48] Rose Springvale: its precatory, but doesn’t hurt anything does it? I think it clarifies for outsiders a bit
[13:49] Rose Springvale: meters per parcel limit mikelo
[13:49] Keila Forager: as long as it doen’t require group owners to put in their charter..
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[13:49] Rose Springvale: must have 256 per person
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: aha, ok, thx
[13:49] Arria Perreault: Monastery = 12 citizen
[13:50] Rose Springvale: personally, i’d welcome them!
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: Sorry, I missed part of the discussion, someone came into my office
[13:50] Arria Perreault: it was an example
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: 256 seems fair
[13:50] Rose Springvale: in the best situatiosn, thats’ 1200 L contribution at minimum from people to the landowner
[13:50] Rose Springvale: which gives people room to do things maybe
[13:51] Rose Springvale: any other comments on this draft?
[13:51] Rose Springvale: if not, maybe a motion?
[13:51] Keila Forager: No Rose, it’s 3K..group ownerhsip now 250L
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: grins
[13:51] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:51] Rose Springvale raises rent on group members
[13:52] Rose Springvale: so….
[13:52] Rose Springvale: motions?
[13:52] Mikelo Serevi motions to pass arria’s proposal
[13:53] Keila Forager: motion to vote on Citizenship bill
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: or to vote, right
[13:53] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds
[13:53] Arria Perreault:
[13:53] Rose Springvale: okay… smile so moved twice and seconded twice
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[13:53] Rose Springvale: further discussion?
[13:53] Rose Springvale: guessing that’s 4 votes in the bag lol
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:54] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[13:54] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:54] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:54] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:54] Pip Torok: abstain
[13:54] Keila Forager: aye
[13:54] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:54] Rose Springvale: wake lilith up lol
[13:54] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn whisteles
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: sorry
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:55] Rose Springvale: hurray!
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: I think I hear angels singing
[13:55] Rose Springvale: congratulations, we have passed a citizenship bill!
[13:55] Arria Perreault:
[13:55] Rose Springvale: nice job Arria!
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi passes out
[13:55] Keila Forager: Did you vote Rose?
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww I need to go in a hurry… congrats, Arria & the citizen commission, excellent work!
[13:55] Rose Springvale: i’ll vote aye, but not needed
[13:55] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: thanks for all your work on this, arria
[13:55] Rose Springvale: thanks Gwyn
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn pre-votes aye on adjourning and leaves in a hurry
[13:56] Rose Springvale: we are 5 minutes from closing time, and have not discussed the expansion projects
[13:56] Rose Springvale: want to table that?
[13:56] Arria Perreault: I also thank all the citizen who participated to the work of the Commission
[13:56] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: move to table
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:56] Rose Springvale: second?
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd
[13:56] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[13:56] Keila Forager: aye
[13:56] Pip Torok: i propose we table IV
[13:56] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:56] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:56] Pip Torok: aye
[13:57] Arria Perreault: (do we need new sims, now we can have 1280 citizen? )
[13:57] Rose Springvale: lol
[13:57] Rose Springvale: is that an aye to table arria?
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: maybe some day
[13:57] Rose Springvale: oh yes
[13:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:57] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:57] Rose Springvale: tabled to next meeting
[13:57] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[13:57] Rose Springvale: oh
[13:57] Rose Springvale: kas, did you have something on comms?
[13:57] Rose Springvale: maybe afk
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: Um, I’ll schedule another meeting and do a full report next time
[13:58] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[13:58] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: we had an open issue to resolve
[13:58] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:58] Rose Springvale: i’d like to thank the Community for their work on Oktoberfest!
[13:59] Keila Forager: ditto
[13:59] Arria Perreault:
[14:00] Rose Springvale: we are nearly finished with our work this term, and i’m very proud of you all. thank you for your cooperation and your hard work
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: have to hurry to RL now
[14:00] Rose Springvale: if no one else has anything, we can adjourn
[14:00] Rose Springvale: it is time!
[14:00] Keila Forager: Yay…
[14:00] Arria Perreault: second
[14:00] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:00] Keila Forager: aye
[14:00] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:00] Pip Torok: aye
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:00] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:00] Rose Springvale: great work today, thank you all!
[14:00] Rose Springvale: taking the transcript

Permalink.

RA Meeting 30 October 2010

Transcript, RA meeting October 30, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:03 am
[9:14] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming. now we’ll come to order
[9:14] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern
[9:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Everyone
[9:14] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Gwyn
[9:14] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Fern
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i’ll remind everyone that we are transcripting, so if you speak it will be recorded. Thank you all for being here
[9:14] Kaseido Quandry: hi Gwyn
[9:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Ulysee
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt runs to get coffee.
[9:14] Rose Springvale: This will be the last of our meetings before we are lame ducks, unless there is an objection to that
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry runs to get more coffee
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry doesn’t object.
[9:15] Keila Forager: No objection
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn quacks in assent.
[9:15] Rose Springvale: the matters on the agenda today are the three items we left hanging last week, and anything else you want to bring
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why we’ve been invaded by ozimals.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: they are bunzillas
[9:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘budget and accountability act’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They oook uh…. vicious?
[9:16] Keila Forager: They are Frankenbunneh’s for halloween
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *look
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt wonders if any are a goose.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:17] Rose Springvale: any additions to the agenda?
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: uhm I only have the one from last time
[9:17] Rose Springvale: ah, well, that works
[9:17] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we will do items IV v and VI
[9:18] Rose Springvale: i think
[9:18] Rose Springvale: unless someone has a report they want to give?
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to report that I haven0’t anything to report
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning we can skip III D
[9:18] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt slinks down into the bench.
[9:19] Arria Perreault: nothing to report form me
[9:19] Kaseido Quandry: nor here
[9:19] Rose Springvale: ladies and gentlemen…. before you go slinking around
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh lol
[9:19] Rose Springvale: you all did enormous and great work on your commissions
[9:19] Keila Forager: Ditto
[9:19] Keila Forager: ♪♪♪♪>~~~APPLAUSE~~~<

Permalink.

RA Meeting 23 October 2010

Transcript, RA meeting October 23, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:07 am
[9:04] Rose Springvale: let me announce that we are officially in session, that all CDS meetings are transcripted so if you speak, you consent to recording
[9:04] Rose Springvale: maybe someone could remind pip?
[9:05] Arria Perreault: I do
[9:05] Keila Forager: done/
[9:05] Rose Springvale: Any citizens have concerns they want to express?
[9:05] Keila Forager: Just wondering if CDS has a place at Burn2?
[9:06] Rose Springvale: not that i know of Keila, Apollo Manga is very involved, but i’m not sure if he’s in CDS anymore
[9:06] Rose Springvale: Does anyone else know?
[9:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[9:06] Keila Forager: I know Jamie used to do and is the responsiblity of exec from what I’ve been told in past
[9:06] Keila Forager: too bad
[9:06] Rose Springvale: yes, jamie and i did it the past two years
[9:06] Keila Forager: Pip is coming
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip
[9:07] Rose Springvale: but the format changed this year.. it’s no longer a Linden sponsored event
[9:07] Keila Forager: It’s a great marketing tool and a lot of fun too. Some great displays
[9:07] Keila Forager: true
[9:07] Arria Perreault: it’s not forbidden, for citizen, to do something on their initiative …
[9:07] Rose Springvale: but oddly, not it has official endorsement from Biurning man
[9:07] Pip Torok: hi Lilith, hi everyone
[9:07] Arria Perreault: and ask for money to the exec
[9:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[9:07] Rose Springvale: Hi pip, thanks for joining us
[9:08] Pip Torok: are we quorate?
[9:08] Rose Springvale: True, but as a cds project, it really falls in the chancellors authority
[9:08] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello Pip
[9:08] Rose Springvale: now we are
[9:08] Pip Torok:
[9:08] Rose Springvale: Other concerns?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: what was the reward of such fairy?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: I did also when I was PIO
[9:08] Rose Springvale: I’d like to announce official condolences to Tor, who lost his mother last night
[9:09] Pip Torok: Hi Moon!!
[9:09] Moon Adamant: hello all
[9:09] Keila Forager: Oh no…
[9:09] Rose Springvale: hi Moon, thanks for coming
[9:09] muhammedyussif Wikinger: agree
[9:09] Kaseido Quandry: oh no – last I heard she was doing better
[9:09] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:09] Rose Springvale: she took a bad turn yesterday and passed away around 6 :30 central time
[9:09] Pip Torok: oh no … mine cndolences too
[9:10] Arria Perreault: sincere condoleances
[9:10] Rose Springvale: I”m sure he will read these minutes and appreciate your kind thoughts
[9:10] Pip Torok: madame lra I propose sending a note of condolences from the CDS
[9:10] Arria Perreault: second
[9:10] Keila Forager: second pip
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear
[9:10] Rose Springvale: well, i dont’ know that we are in the sending notes businss… who would you have do that?
[9:11] Moon Adamant: i have spoken to Tor already, he has my full sympathy
[9:11] Pip Torok: i think this wd be an appropriate way to start …
[9:11] Rose Springvale: i think it is better if we all do our own notes. But if you’d like to do one on behalf of CDS, please do Pip
[9:11] Pip Torok: shall do ….
[9:11] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[9:11] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:11] Pip Torok: aye
[9:11] Keila Forager: aye
[9:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:12] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:12] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:12] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:12] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:12] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks, Pip
[9:12] Rose Springvale: We are still in the citizens concerns section of the meeting… and have a full agenda.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Are there other concerns from the citizens?
[9:13] Pip Torok: Hi Delia …
[9:13] Arria Perreault: Hi Delia
[9:13] Lilith Ivory: hi Delia
[9:13] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello Delia
[9:13] Rose Springvale:
[9:13] Delia Lake: good day everyone
[9:13] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[9:13] Rose Springvale: have any citizens concerns Delia?
[9:13] Delia Lake: not that i think of today ty
[9:14] Rose Springvale: okay. Then lets move to the agenda. Thank you all for coming. There is a copy of the Agenda and the acts under consideration in the box on the table
[9:14] Delia Lake: i might mention that some people may be having difficulty getting here
[9:14] Rose Springvale: oh? bad again?
[9:14] Delia Lake: i could not tp. had to log off and log on in CN
[9:14] Rose Springvale: oh, well, hopefully others will be able to resolve too
[9:14] Rose Springvale: I’d like to propose one change to the agenda
[9:15] Rose Springvale: and that is to move VIII Expansion Discussion to the first item, as we’ve got invited guests here today and i’d like to make sure they have time
[9:15] Rose Springvale: anyone opposed to that?
[9:16] Keila Forager: Nope
[9:16] Moon Adamant: ah thanks – i do have to leave by 11 or a bit before
[9:16] Pip Torok: no
[9:16] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[9:16] Arria Perreault: no
[9:16] Rose Springvale: good, then we’ll move those, and take the other items in order after that.
[9:16] Lilith Ivory: nope
[9:16] Rose Springvale: the 7 day vote entered from last week was also in favor of the citizenship act as passed, so nothing to repor there
[9:17] Rose Springvale: So we’ll go right to the Expansion discussion. I’ve asked both Moon and Sudane to join us as they are the “money” expert and the “land” expert we have always relied on in CDS
[9:17] Rose Springvale: thank you both for coming
[9:17] Sudane Erato: yw
[9:17] Moon Adamant: you’re very welcome, as always
[9:18] Rose Springvale: CDS has been talking about a new sim for a long time now. During the oktoberfest, we held an official brainstorming session, where many of the RA participated
[9:18] Rose Springvale: There were basically 4 ideas presented there, and i’ll review those quickly, and then open the floor for discussion of those or anything else you want to dream up
[9:19] Rose Springvale: the 4 were 1) NFS east and a new schloss, 2. NFS west, possibly encompassing a sandbox, 3) Atlantis, on lower levels, and 4, Water/mountain sims, possibly homesteads.
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Is that the way you all remember them?
[9:20] Rose Springvale: So, feel free to elaborate on your favorites, or throw out other ideas
[9:20] Lilith Ivory: looks ok for me
[9:20] Arria Perreault: it’s correct, as I can remember
[9:21] Keila Forager: Looks good
[9:21] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:21] Pip Torok: does upgrading Scloss etc proposals properly come under this heading?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: i thought we’d talk generaly about feasibility from both a construction and monetary standpoint of each of those and any others you all throw out. Yes Arria first, then Pip
[9:22] Moon Adamant: i woudl like to speak when possible, too
[9:22] Arria Perreault: I would like to hear Moon about the consequences of these different projects and the GMP
[9:22] Pip Torok: (sorry, madame lra, I see that it does …)
[9:22] Arria Perreault: which projects are the easiest to do now
[9:22] Rose Springvale: yes, so would we all
[9:23] Moon Adamant: oh, i’ll be gla dto comment when i have the floor
[9:23] Rose Springvale: okay, Moon, did you have a chance to read those transcripts? And easy isn’t always ‘best”
[9:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:23] Moon Adamant: hmmm, no, but i guess from your description what they are
[9:23] Rose Springvale: okay. then why dont’ you go ahead if you’d like… i was concerned that we were too cryptic
[9:23] Moon Adamant: these possibilities have been laid out before… maybe except for Atlantis
[9:24] Moon Adamant: which i suppose is underwater?
[9:24] Keila Forager: correct moon
[9:24] Rose Springvale: that’s right
[9:24] Moon Adamant: thanks Keila
[9:24] Moon Adamant: ok
[9:24] Moon Adamant: i agree that ‘easy’ and best’ aren’t teh same
[9:24] Moon Adamant: ‘easy’ now is to expand to where the terrain is flattish
[9:25] Moon Adamant: so atlantis and water/archipelago sims would be easier
[9:25] Moon Adamant: almost immediate
[9:25] Moon Adamant: as they woudl only require the planning of the urban layout
[9:26] Moon Adamant: and not a planning for teh modelling of terrain
[9:26] Moon Adamant: which is what is taking ages – my fault there
[9:26] Moon Adamant: in fact, planning for flattish terrains
[9:26] Moon Adamant: atm
[9:26] Moon Adamant: allows a wider participation of citizens in the planning process
[9:27] Moon Adamant: similar to what happened in LA
[9:27] Moon Adamant: while planning for mountain and sims bordering the very compliex NFS terrain
[9:28] Moon Adamant: is … well, tough
[9:28] Moon Adamant: that’s the matter of it
[9:28] Rose Springvale: any thoughts on how long we could expect on each of those?
[9:28] Rose Springvale: not to put you on the spot
[9:28] Moon Adamant: eheheh
[9:28] Moon Adamant: well, for teh flattish terrains, expect a process taking the same time as LA took
[9:29] Rose Springvale: so 4-6 weeks?
[9:29] Moon Adamant: can’t remind atm how long it took, but it can be tracked from the forums
[9:29] Moon Adamant: 1 to 2 months, yes
[9:29] Rose Springvale: seems like it was pretty fast.
[9:29] Moon Adamant: it was
[9:29] Rose Springvale: and mountains, more like AM?
[9:29] Moon Adamant: for the mountain terrains…
[9:29] Moon Adamant: yes
[9:29] Rose Springvale: so 4-6 months
[9:30] Moon Adamant: maybe a tad more
[9:30] Moon Adamant: yes, the longer bit of that
[9:30] Keila Forager: Can I ask why it takes so long?
[9:30] Rose Springvale: (am came online us thankgiving weekend, and was approved the end of may)
[9:30] Moon Adamant: well, because we need to plan the slope down from NFS to teh water level
[9:31] Moon Adamant: that’s a few sims’ lenght
[9:31] Moon Adamant: for example, if the alpine range that has been considered is built, we have to hmmm
[9:31] Arria Perreault: (for the record: Monastery project: 1 and half year, political discussions, but also a lot of discussions about the relief)
[9:31] Moon Adamant: calculate the heights of the corners and median points of 20+ sims
[9:32] Moon Adamant: and this is complex
[9:32] Arria Perreault: I can testify
[9:32] Lilith Ivory: do we have to go down to water level within 1 Sim or couldn´t we add another one later?
[9:32] Rose Springvale: thanks Moon
[9:32] Moon Adamant: oh Lil
[9:32] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:32] Moon Adamant: we need several, depending on teh direction
[9:32] Rose Springvale: sorry , go on!
[9:32] Moon Adamant: you must have a maximal slope angle you see
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: seems hard to go down this much in 1 sim
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: I see
[9:33] Rose Springvale: i don’t think she meant that Lil, but rather the slope to connect to the adjoining sims, yes?
[9:33] Moon Adamant: so that you can build roads, etc, with some ease…. also so you can provide future tenants with plots which aren’t fiendishly dififcult to build on
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: right
[9:34] Rose Springvale: One of the suggestions was to make the sim not a residential sim, but more ski slope plus sandbox…. would that take less time?
[9:34] Moon Adamant: and you must leave some leeway too
[9:34] Moon Adamant: so not to constrain future planners
[9:34] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:35] Moon Adamant: hmmm, it would depend still from the overall GMP relief planning
[9:35] Pip Torok: won’t that overload the function of just one sim?
[9:35] Moon Adamant: but you would surely save the time of building infrastructure
[9:35] Rose Springvale: and lose the concern about parcelling
[9:35] Moon Adamant: mind that
[9:36] Moon Adamant: owners can place settings on their parcels which make it difficult to ski below
[9:36] Moon Adamant: for example, Run No Scripts
[9:36] Rose Springvale: true, but could be dealt with in covenants, no?
[9:37] Moon Adamant: i think so
[9:37] Moon Adamant: but it could mean a constant maintenance in that sense
[9:37] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questiosn for moon?
[9:38] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:38] Moon Adamant listens
[9:38] Arria Perreault: in the GMP, do we still have higher mountains (higher than NFS) or not?
[9:39] Moon Adamant: in teh current version, yes
[9:39] Moon Adamant: there was a decision, a couple of years ago, to have the alpine range west of NFS
[9:39] Moon Adamant: several sims
[9:39] Moon Adamant: that’s actually what makes the GMP be 20+ sims
[9:40] Moon Adamant: if i go higher, then i need more sims to reach down to teh water level
[9:40] Rose Springvale: smiles. more sims!
[9:41] Moon Adamant: yes
[9:41] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks moon, if you’d hang with us a few more minutes… maybe we can hear from sudane on finacial feasiblity
[9:41] Moon Adamant: sure
[9:41] Moon Adamant: i am interested in taht as well
[9:42] Rose Springvale: Sudane, can you talk about three things… particulary, and anything else of course
[9:42] Sudane Erato: 3 things?
[9:42] Rose Springvale: 1) how well mountain sims “sell” as opposed to lower ones, 2, the idea of owning sims with no residents
[9:43] Rose Springvale: and 3 homesteads/ full sims
[9:43] Sudane Erato: ok… sure
[9:43] Sudane Erato: on #1 i’m really not qualified to say…
[9:43] Keila Forager: Hi tor
[9:43] Keila Forager: HUGS
[9:43] Lilith Ivory: hi Tor
[9:43] Pip Torok: hi Tor
[9:43] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor!
[9:43] Arria Perreault: Hi Tor
[9:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all, sort of have a lull in the day.
[9:43] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello Tor
[9:43] Rose Springvale: smiles at tor. thanks for coming. I told him he can just listen folks
[9:43] Moon Adamant: hi Tor
[9:44] Rose Springvale: we were just going to hear from Sudane re new sims financial effect tor… will copy you the notes up to now while she types
[9:44] Sudane Erato: yes…
[9:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:44] Sudane Erato: so i’m not really qualified to say how well one style sells compared to another
[9:45] Sudane Erato: and its hard to tell from out own experience
[9:45] Sudane Erato: NFS and AM are almost always full… but i don’t think thats owing the “mountin vs flat”
[9:45] Tor Karlsvalt accepted your inventory offer.
[9:45] Sudane Erato: ok
[9:46] Rose Springvale: theme then?
[9:46] Sudane Erato: the big issue to discuss, I think, is the issue of sims for residents
[9:46] Sudane Erato: and sims for “general purpose”
[9:46] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:46] Sudane Erato: of which we have none now
[9:46] Rose Springvale: lets let her finish
[9:46] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:47] Sudane Erato: the issue breaks down to purchase and tier
[9:47] Sudane Erato: up until now, we have re-couped the purchase price of a sim by selling parcels on it to residents
[9:47] Sudane Erato: this means no net money loss to CDS
[9:48] Sudane Erato: but… today, even if we intend this purpose for a new sim
[9:48] Sudane Erato: this will be very difficult
[9:48] Sudane Erato: since the price of land is so low
[9:48] Sudane Erato: if
[9:48] muhammedyussif Wikinger: h
[9:48] Sudane Erato: we have no intention of selling the land
[9:48] Sudane Erato: then the entire purchase cost.
[9:49] Sudane Erato: is a net loss to the treasury
[9:49] Sudane Erato: that could be ok…
[9:49] Sudane Erato: but what is more devastating, i think
[9:49] Sudane Erato: is not planning to collect any tier on the land
[9:49] Sudane Erato: any new full sim
[9:50] Sudane Erato: will cost us $US300/month
[9:50] Sudane Erato: L$100,000
[9:50] Sudane Erato: approx
[9:50] Sudane Erato: thats a LOT of money… month in and month out
[9:50] Rose Springvale: okay, i know we all have more questiosn, but we are at time alloted… do i have a motion to extend?
[9:50] Keila Forager: I move to extend time for discussion on this topic
[9:50] Sudane Erato: a homestead will cost about half that
[9:50] Pip Torok: second
[9:50] Rose Springvale: how long?
[9:51] Arria Perreault: 20 min
[9:51] Keila Forager: second
[9:51] Rose Springvale: we have a motion to extend time 20 minutes. all in favor?
[9:51] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[9:51] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:51] Keila Forager: aye
[9:51] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:51] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[9:51] Pip Torok: aye
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: eye
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:51] Rose Springvale: okay, i vote aye, motion carries
[9:52] Rose Springvale: muhammed, we will try to stay within the 2 hours. just move something to next week
[9:52] Rose Springvale: please go on Sudane
[9:52] Sudane Erato: kk
[9:52] muhammedyussif Wikinger: good
[9:52] Sudane Erato: so… you see that setting up a non revenue generating sim has very serious implications
[9:53] Sudane Erato: there have been lots of comments in past months about how much money we have
[9:53] Sudane Erato: but i think that that money will not last too long with these kind of sims
[9:53] Sudane Erato: and… the other concern
[9:53] Sudane Erato: is that even if we do buy sims intended for residences
[9:54] Sudane Erato: that it will be almost impossible to recoup the purchase cost
[9:54] Sudane Erato: so that too will be a loss to our treasury, although thankfully a “one time” loss
[9:54] Sudane Erato: i think that at least covers the concerns… obviously much discussion could be had
[9:55] Rose Springvale: yes
[9:55] Rose Springvale: so lets take questions for a bit?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: arria?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: maybe afk… others?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: no, typing, sorry
[9:55] Arria Perreault: we still have to take in account the consequences of the new citizen law
[9:56] Arria Perreault: the re is no more pressure to open sims to get new citizen
[9:57] Sudane Erato: yes, sadly… the land sale market in SSL is not very good
[9:57] Arria Perreault: maybe we should renew our vision. why do we need new sims? I would suggest that new sims should be connected with a project and maybe with a group of people
[9:57] Arria Perreault: we talked in the past about sims for NGO
[9:57] Keila Forager: And what if that group of people decided to leave??
[9:57] Arria Perreault: we need to think to this too
[9:57] Rose Springvale: thank you Arria, Keila, did you want to ask a question?
[9:58] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[9:58] Arria Perreault: I had this remark, not a question
[9:58] Rose Springvale: k thank you.
[9:58] Rose Springvale: Moon?
[9:58] Moon Adamant: oh, jsyt a comment on what Arria siad
[9:58] Moon Adamant: said* – sorry for teh typos
[9:59] Moon Adamant: on communitie sand projects connected to land
[9:59] Moon Adamant: and Cedar island comes to mind as an excellent example
[9:59] Moon Adamant: it’s a very vigorous community
[9:59] Moon Adamant: done
[9:59] Rose Springvale: thank you. I have a couple of questions too, but will wait for others?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: or just go ahead
[10:01] Rose Springvale: First, with a treasury in excess of 10000 USD, i’m having trouble being concerned about not recovering the initial outlay.. not sure what other purpose all that money is for. I’d like to look, over time
[10:01] Rose Springvale: at how much excess tier we generate per month, which adds to the surplus, to see if we can absorb the cost of tier for a non paying sim that provides added value
[10:01] Rose Springvale: for the land we already have
[10:01] Rose Springvale: and in that regard
[10:02] Rose Springvale: looking at the map that tor did last weeek, and the full map showing our available land in other sims
[10:02] Rose Springvale: if we increased the value of what we already have, don’t change our tier rates, Could we in fact have our cake and eat it too?
[10:02] Rose Springvale: particularly where a sandbox sim is concerned.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: done
[10:02] Arria Perreault: /raises hand
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Arria
[10:03] Sudane Erato: obnviously, a non-revenue generating sim expense would need to get added into the operating budget… and sufficient surplus be maintained every month to pay for it
[10:04] Sudane Erato: we don’t always generate 100,000 extra each month now
[10:04] Rose Springvale: but that’s a choice, correct?
[10:04] Sudane Erato: and other solution degrades the reserves indefinitely
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I agree that we can lose the initial investisment. I think also that we have to think with the idea of programs. Let’s take the sandbox. We can decide to invest the tier of a sim or half a sim for one or two years and then decide again if we reconduct the experience. we have to be flexible and find new models
[10:04] Sudane Erato: whuich means, eventually they go to zero
[10:05] Rose Springvale: yes arria i agree. Sudane Wouldn’t arrias idea be a responsible way to deal with that concern?
[10:05] Sudane Erato: i.e…. change the status after awhile and start collecting tier?
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: I agree with Arria- that’s a very reasonable approach
[10:05] Sudane Erato: sure
[10:06] Sudane Erato: but this community has often been very resistent to changing existing patterns
[10:06] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:06] Rose Springvale: given full information, i’m not concerned
[10:06] Keila Forager: that’s an understatement Sudane
[10:06] Rose Springvale: okay, we are nearly at time
[10:06] Moon Adamant raises hand
[10:07] Rose Springvale: yes moon
[10:07] Moon Adamant: just one question… not very informed there
[10:07] Moon Adamant: but i heard that the overall SL land market is rather slow atm
[10:07] Rose Springvale: for most places yes
[10:07] Moon Adamant: shouldn’t taht be taken into account as well in this discussion?
[10:07] Keila Forager: Not everywhere
[10:08] Rose Springvale: indeed. we need to find ways for our sims to be in the “not everywhere” category
[10:08] Moon Adamant: yes, exactly
[10:08] Sudane Erato: actually, i think the CDS is one of the most successful land-selling communities
[10:08] Moon Adamant: that’s it
[10:08] Rose Springvale: Thanks Moon, and thanks Sudane.
[10:08] Sudane Erato: yw
[10:09] Sudane Erato: and anyone please feel to contact me to discuss any of this more
[10:09] Rose Springvale: RA, we are at time on this discussion. What i would like to see is for us to take the conversation to the forum
[10:09] Rose Springvale: If anyone would like to make a motion, lets post it and consider at our next meeting?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: I second this proposition
[10:09] Pip Torok agrees with Rose on this
[10:09] Rose Springvale: then i’ll put it on the agenda for next meeting.
[10:09] Arria Perreault: Motion to continue this discussion on the forums
[10:10] Rose Springvale: thank you Arria, second?
[10:10] Keila Forager: second
[10:10] Rose Springvale: all in favor of moving the expansion discussion to the forums and bringing back motions next meeting say aye please?
[10:10] Keila Forager: aye
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Rose Springvale: thank you. And thanks again Moon and Sudane for your invaluable help
[10:11] Sudane Erato: yw
[10:11] Moon Adamant: you’re very welcome, again
[10:11] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Act to Create Commerce Coordinator’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:11] Sudane Erato: sorry… i must run
[10:11] Moon Adamant: i wish you all a pleasant meeting, and a nice saturday
[10:11] Moon Adamant waves
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Sudand and Moon.
[10:11] Keila Forager: Thanks sudane and moon
[10:11] Pip Torok: tks Moon!
[10:12] Ulysse Alexandre: bye bye Moon and Sudane
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: yes thank you both
[10:12] Rose Springvale: okay, back to the agenda, we are at commission reports
[10:12] Pip Torok: cheers to bot! …
[10:12] Pip Torok: both
[10:12] Rose Springvale: Lilith has word from the Commerce commission
[10:12] Rose Springvale: go ahead please Lil
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: ty Rose
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: First of all, as the direct TP in NFS seems to work fine, The Commerce Commission moves to make the TP act in Neufreistadt final.
[10:12] Keila Forager: YAY
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: 2. The Commerce Commision moves to create a Merchants page on the CDS portal and a thread in the CDS forums.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: The commission had a lot more ideas. For example Combined Classifieds listings for each Sim, merchant Teleport signs in each Sim, at least one special, merchant specific event per month, like treasure hunts, street fairs or shop crawls etc.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: We are aware that this means a lot of work.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: For that reason the Commerce Commission moves that a new civil service position be created. This position would be named the Commerce Coordinator.
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: great stuff!
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: The Commerce Coordinator would be a civil servant and and thus paid – with the ability to request funds for advertising and events.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: The responsibilities of the position would be:
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: 1. Create directory listings for CDS sims, specifically commercial areas
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 2. Create and maintain a merchant directory and supply to the PIO for distribution.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 3. Coordinate regular events intended to increase commerce in cds, such as hunts, flea markets, fairs, etc.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 4. Assist with bringing new merchants to fill commercial spaces in CDS.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 5. Update and maintain a Merchants page on the CDS portal, and a thread on the CDS forums
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: The Commerce Coordinator will report to the CDS Executive and be allocated funds from the budget each term with which to fullfill duties.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: done so far
[10:15] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:15] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[10:15] Keila Forager: Great idea:)
[10:15] Lilith Ivory:
[10:15] Rose Springvale: no discussion? so perfect all we need to do is vote?
[10:15] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[10:16] Rose Springvale: well then, lets do them one at a time
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: ok :
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: starting with 1.
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: TP in NFS seems to work fine, The Commerce Commission moves to make the TP act in Neufreistadt final.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: do we have a second?
[10:16] Kaseido Quandry: second
[10:16] Pip Torok: second
[10:17] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:17] Pip Torok: aye
[10:17] Keila Forager: aye
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:17] Alexia Carnell: )
[10:17] Rose Springvale: chair also votes aye, motion carries. thanks!
[10:17] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:17] Rose Springvale: 2?
[10:17] Pip Torok: (makes Alexia’s day!
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: 2. The Commerce Commision moves to create a Merchants page on the CDS portal and a thread in the CDS forums.
[10:17] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:18] Keila Forager: second
[10:18] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:18] Keila Forager: aye
[10:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:18] Pip Torok: aye
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:18] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:18] Rose Springvale: thinks kassi is multitasking, votes aye
[10:18] Rose Springvale: motion carries.
[10:18] Rose Springvale: 3?
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: 3. The Commerce Commission moves that a new civil service position be created. This position would be named the Commerce Coordinator.
The Commerce Coordinator would be a civil servant and and thus paid – with the ability to request funds for advertising and events.
The responsibilities of the position would be:
1. Create directory listings for CDS sims, specifically commercial areas
2. Create and maintain a merchant directory and supply to the PIO for distribution.
3. Coordinate regular events intended to increase commerce in cds, such as hunts, flea markets, fairs, etc.
4. Assist with bringing new merchants to fill commercial spaces in CDS.
5. Update and maintain a Merchants page on the CDS portal, and a thread on the CDS forums
The Commerce Coordinator will report to the CDS Executive and be allocated funds from the budget each term with which to fullfill duties.
[10:19] Rose Springvale: Second?
[10:19] Pip Torok: second
[10:19] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[10:19] Arria Perreault: I have just a remark
[10:19] Rose Springvale: i have one question… as a civil service… go on Arria’
[10:20] Pip Torok: yes … we shd make sure that the influx of new business justifies the salary of the exec
[10:20] Arria Perreault: we have tried for years to solve this question with an NGO solution, like a commerce chamber. It never worked very well. The solution of a civil servant is not bad in my point of view.
[10:20] Pip Torok: (sorry, out of turn)
[10:21] Rose Springvale: thanks. go on Pip
[10:21] Lilith Ivory: right Arria
[10:21] Rose Springvale: i think our comments are related
[10:21] Pip Torok: yes … we shd make sure that the influx of new business justifies the salary of the exec
[10:21] Rose Springvale: how do we determine that Pip?
[10:21] Keila Forager: raises hand
[10:21] Lilith Ivory: our Sims would be more attractive if we have working shops
[10:22] Pip Torok: simply a watching brief if that is practical
[10:22] Rose Springvale: okay, though probably as hard as telling if events sell land, but certainly. Keila?
[10:22] Keila Forager: I don’t like it should be to justify a salary, if the person is doing the work regardless of new business, they should get paid..
[10:23] Keila Forager: It should be to justify the position..
[10:23] Keila Forager: and very true lilith
[10:23] Pip Torok concedes the point
[10:23] Rose Springvale: okay, my question… as a civil service position, this would be a Chancellor appointment, correct? so the Chancellor could determing if it “works”
[10:23] Rose Springvale: determine*
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: I think so
[10:24] Pip Torok: so do I
[10:24] Rose Springvale: okay. anyone else?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: if not, all in favor of the motion as presented?
[10:25] Keila Forager: aye
[10:25] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:25] Pip Torok: aye
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: aye’
[10:25] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:25] Rose Springvale: smiles and pokes kas… and votes aye
[10:26] Kaseido Quandry: aye!
[10:26] Rose Springvale: motion carries, Well done Lilith! thank you for your work and for coming up with great ideas to solf a long term problem
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: aaaw
[10:26] Arria Perreault: yes, congratulations Lilith
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: was not me alone thanks to everybody who worked with me :9
[10:27] Rose Springvale: with the discretion of the RA, i’d like to fiddle with the agenda again
[10:27] Rose Springvale: We really need to make sure we have our election dates certified, and the other items on the agenda are not time sensitive
[10:28] Rose Springvale: so i’m going to move item VII to the top next, unless there are objections
[10:28] Arria Perreault: no objection
[10:28] Rose Springvale listens
[10:28] Pip Torok: none from me
[10:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok for me
[10:28] Keila Forager: no objection
[10:28] Rose Springvale: Delia, maybe i can impose on you… is the citizens list in order so that we know how many membesr of the RA we’ll elect?
[10:29] Rose Springvale: maybe she is multi taskign too
[10:29] Delia Lake: sorry
[10:30] Rose Springvale: smiles and realizes how riveting the RA meetings are!
[10:30] Pip Torok: < chortles >
[10:30] Delia Lake: back to me in a sec pls. have something in rl. very sorry
[10:30] Lilith Ivory smiles and nods
[10:30] Delia Lake: tree work in the backyard
[10:31] Rose Springvale: ok
[10:31] Rose Springvale: here are the dates i figured for the election
[10:31]Rose Springvale[/b]: CDS 14th Representative Assembly Term begins December 1, 2010.
Election: Noon on November 11 to noon on November 18.
Candidate Declarations: October 27, 2010 (both Chancellor AND RA elections)
Citizenship Status Determination date: October 14, 2010 I am sure we will be getting the certified numbers of citizens as soon as the SC has reviewed the list.
[10:31] [color=Black]Rose Springvale: did anyone check the math?
[10:31] Pip Torok: < touch not a single bough! >
[10:31] Rose Springvale: shall we approve the dates then?
[10:32] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[10:32] Rose Springvale: candidate deadline is this week!
[10:32] Rose Springvale: is that long enough?
[10:32] Rose Springvale: 4 days from now
[10:32] Keila Forager: I wouldn’t think so
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I agree- that’s probably not enough notice
[10:32] Pip Torok: agrees that it is long enough
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it was in the forums since several days
[10:32] Arria Perreault: but it’s short, for sure
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i didn’t find anything that required that it be 15 days before the vote, but tha’ts what it has been traditionally
[10:32] Keila Forager: Not a lot of people read the forums..
[10:33] Rose Springvale: in past terms, the SC extended, but i think we can do that now
[10:33] Rose Springvale: shall we add a week?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: yes, let’s, that should be fine
[10:33] Keila Forager: I think it would be a good idea
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: right
[10:33] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:33] Pip Torok concedes
[10:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[10:33] Rose Springvale: so… deadline for declaring would be November 3? that doesn’t give a lot of time to set up vote machines
[10:34] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:34] Rose Springvale: i need to look at the dates
[10:34] Rose Springvale: when does campaigning begin??
[10:34] Arria Perreault: The election can be later, just before the beginning of the term
[10:34] Arria Perreault: no?
[10:35] Rose Springvale: if we extend the deadline, we limit the number of days to campaign. I hesitate to make it a week later, because that runs into US thanksgiving
[10:35] Rose Springvale: maybe we split the difference, and make the declaration deadline ten days from today
[10:35] Rose Springvale: or is that the same lol
[10:35] Rose Springvale: i’m so bad with numbers
[10:35] Rose Springvale: 7 days?
[10:36] Kaseido Quandry is trying to puzzle this out on a calendar’
[10:36] Keila Forager: make it hallowwen
[10:36] Arria Perreault: 3 November?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: so people declare by next saturday, campaign one week, and we have one week for voting
[10:36] You decline Thistle Hill Market, Caledon Oxbridge Village (187, 80, 25) from A group member named Autopilotpatty Poppy.
[10:36] Arria Perreault: 30 Oktober?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:36] Keila Forager: sure
[10:36] Rose Springvale: 30 october deadline
[10:36] Kaseido Quandry: sounds good
[10:36] Rose Springvale: then keep the election dates
[10:36] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[10:36] Rose Springvale: and we’ll get the word out as many ways as possible
[10:37] Arria Perreault: declaration is to the Dean of the SC?
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: ok
[10:37] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:37] Rose Springvale: yes to arria
[10:37] Rose Springvale: or on the forums i beleive
[10:37] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:37] Rose Springvale: so adjusted dates:
[10:38] Rose Springvale: CDS 14th Representative Assembly Term begins December 1, 2010.
Election: Noon on November 11 to noon on November 18.[/i] Candidate Declarations: October 30, 2010 (both Chancellor AND RA elections)
Citizenship Status Determination date: October 14, 2010 I am sure we will be getting the certified numbers of citizens as soon as the SC has reviewed the list.[/color] [10:38] Delia Lake: very very sorry. tree pruners were about to cut off a good and live branch instead of the large dead one next to it!!
[10:38] Rose Springvale: oh no!
[10:39] Rose Springvale: no problem delia
[10:39] Rose Springvale: we are about to vote on adjusted dates
[10:39] Rose Springvale: if i get a motion
[10:39] Pip Torok: (so I WAS right about the bough .. after all!
[10:39] Rose Springvale: (life imitates art, pip!)
[10:39] Linna Voix gave you Pixart Designs-tatoo-sandals-flip-flops-bikinis-low price..
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: 11/11 Armistice Day
[10:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:40] Rose Springvale: we have a whole week, so that shouldn’t be a problem
[10:40] Keila Forager: I move to adjust candidate declanation to OCt 30
[10:40] Pip Torok: second
[10:40] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:41] Rose Springvale: all in favor of that adjustment?
[10:41] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:41] Keila Forager: aye
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:41] Pip Torok: aye
[10:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:41] You decline Belly Dancing Sultan’s Tent, Caledon Tamrannoch (211, 207, 501) from A group member named Autopilotpatty Poppy.
[10:41] Rose Springvale: Aye as well.
[10:41] Rose Springvale: okay, what about the election dates?
[10:42] Arria Perreault: I have a question. Who is in charge to communicate these dates as wide as possible?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: delia, do you think a week is enough time for the mecanisme?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: pip
[10:42] Rose Springvale: pio sorry
[10:42] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:42] Rose Springvale: but i think anyone who has access should go ahead
[10:42] Rose Springvale: in this case, i dont think there can be too much information
[10:42] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:43] Delia Lake: for the voting itself?
[10:43] Rose Springvale: no
[10:43] Rose Springvale: to get the machines set up
[10:43] Rose Springvale: only one week between declaration and opening polls
[10:43] Delia Lake: i would think so, yes. I haven’t heard back from Jon yet though
[10:43] Rose Springvale: which gives only a week for debates, meet the candidate parties, etc
[10:44] Rose Springvale: i think we put the first meeting of the new reps on the sunday after the election, and a ball the following week
[10:45] Rose Springvale: which gets squirrelly with Thanksgiving holidays
[10:45] Pip Torok: which dates will those be, please?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: which?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: thanksgiving in the us is november 25 i think
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[10:45] Keila Forager: that is correct
[10:45] Rose Springvale: sees arria typing
[10:46] Arria Perreault: no
[10:46] Rose Springvale: ok
[10:46] Pip Torok: date of 1st meeting and daTE OF THE BALL
[10:46] Rose Springvale: need to check that one
[10:47] Rose Springvale: but i think the first meeting of the RA was set to follow the election .. or happen within the week
[10:47] Rose Springvale: and the ball was set to the following saturday or sunday
[10:47] Rose Springvale: or maybe that’s just what they talked about (had to do with LRA election)
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: have a thanksgiving ball
[10:48] Keila Forager: Good idea Tor
[10:48] Rose Springvale: okay, so leave the election dates as they are?
[10:48] Keila Forager: Yes
[10:48] Rose Springvale: motion?
[10:49] Kaseido Quandry reads back to try to find all the pieces for a motin
[10:49] Rose Springvale: smiels
[10:49] Keila Forager: I move to leave election dates Election: Noon on November 11 to noon on November 18.
[10:49] Rose Springvale: Thank you
[10:49] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: second
[10:50] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:50] Keila Forager: aye
[10:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:50] Pip Torok: aye
[10:50] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thank you, motion carries
[10:50] Rose Springvale: delia, do we have a citizens list so we know how many we are electing?
[10:51] Delia Lake: there are some who are currently provisional but regardless the lowest odd number should be 7 RA
[10:51] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks!
[10:51] Delia Lake: they can reclaim their status until the polls open
[10:51] Rose Springvale: not likely we’d get to 9 is there?
[10:52] Keila Forager: More chance of having a quorum
[10:52] Delia Lake: no. in order to get to 9 RA we would have to have more than 90 citizens which we do not have
[10:52] Rose Springvale: we’ve only not had a quorum one time this term Keila, i think bigger is better!
[10:52] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[10:52] Rose Springvale: so 7 RA positions, one chancellor
[10:52] Rose Springvale: get your declarations to Delia
[10:52] Rose Springvale: or post them
[10:53] Rose Springvale: and term limist start next term so all here are elibible
[10:53] Rose Springvale: eligible*
[10:53] Keila Forager: That’s what I mean, 7 RA more chance of no quorem
[10:53] Rose Springvale: ah, okay
[10:53] Rose Springvale: The only other open issue re elections is the voters guide
[10:53] Delia Lake: tradition has that people most often give a notecard declaration to the SC Dean + posting in the Forum, that way no declaration gets accidentally missed
[10:54] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to go through that with the modifications and make sure its okay?
[10:54] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks Delia
[10:54] Rose Springvale: if no one else volunteers, i’ll look through it
[10:54] Delia Lake: and re voter’s guide, Claude had written one last time that needs to be updated with current law
[10:54] Rose Springvale: okay, i’ll get with claude and make sure we have something then
[10:54] Rose Springvale: any other items concerning elections?
[10:55] Delia Lake: he did go through it last week looking for update points
[10:55] Rose Springvale: oh good
[10:55] Rose Springvale: let’s finish commission reports, then go to concerns, and table the other agenda items to Thursday?
[10:55] Keila Forager: agreed
[10:55] Pip Torok: sounds ok to me …
[10:55] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hurray
[10:55] Rose Springvale: dont’ think there is anything else from commissions is there?
[10:56] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:56] Arria Perreault: not from me
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Tor, kas?
[10:56] Kaseido Quandry: nope\
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: no, not from me.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: great.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: for the record, could we have a motion to table items IV, V, and VI?
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: move to table items IV, V and VI
[10:57] Pip Torok: so move
[10:57] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:57] Keila Forager: second
[10:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I move to that
[10:57] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:57] Pip Torok: second
[10:57] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:57] Keila Forager: aye
[10:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:57] Pip Torok: aye
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:57] Rose Springvale: thank you
[10:57] Rose Springvale: RA concerns?
[10:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:57] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I have one.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: oh, go on Tor
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: concern
[10:58] Rose Springvale: sorry
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Jsut a heads up
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: we will have look at modifying the border of CN with Garnata.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: and almunecar, true. That’s under the chancellors venue i think
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: pl
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ol
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:59] Rose Springvale:
[10:59] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[10:59] Rose Springvale: citizens feel free to speak up too now
[10:59] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[11:00] Rose Springvale: i note the calendar showed an alpine sims cultual commission meeting… anyone know anything about that?
[11:01] Keila Forager: No
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: I have no idea about that
[11:01] Rose Springvale: kk
[11:01] Delia Lake: haven’t heard anything about it, no
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: whenis/was it?
[11:01] Rose Springvale: now
[11:01] Keila Forager: LOL
[11:01] Rose Springvale: 11-12:30 is what is on the calendar
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: wow
[11:01] Arria Perreault: I saw this too
[11:01] Delia Lake: no announcements or notes came to me
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: none to me either
[11:01] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:02] Arria Perreault: maybe a date put there since a long time, like the anniversary of LA
[11:02] Rose Springvale: who is chair of that one?
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe a recurring event
[11:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: motion to ajourn the meeting
[11:02] Arria Perreault: Sonja and Lilith
[11:02] Rose Springvale: thanks muhammed
[11:02] Rose Springvale: second?
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: second
[11:02] Pip Torok: second
[11:02] Keila Forager: second
[11:02] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:02] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:02] Keila Forager: aye
[11:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:02] Pip Torok: aye
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:02] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:02] Rose Springvale: thank you all! we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 20 November 2010

Transcript, RA meeting November 20, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:53 am
[9:04] Rose Springvale: we can go ahead and begin the meeting. It is a reporting meeting rather than a voting one.
[9:04] Pip Torok: hello Courtney
[9:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[9:04] Courtney Beaumont: hi
[9:04] Courtney Beaumont: im new, and im stuck. haha
[9:04] Rose Springvale: Remember that all CDS meetings are transcripted and recorded. This is the citizens concern portion of the meeting Welcome Courtney
[9:04] Lilith Ivory: Hi Courtney
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[9:05] Rose Springvale: what’s wrong muhammed?
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: To little clothes and too much naled skin
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: naked
[9:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: in my opinion
[9:06] Lilith Ivory zooms through the room
[9:06] Lilith Ivory: where?
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry is completely lost
[9:06] Rose Springvale is confused too
[9:06] Rose Springvale: perhaps an issue with your viewer?
[9:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: perhaps it was only me seeing the skirts of Rose going up in the sky
[9:07] Pip Torok wonders where Courtney is
[9:07] Kaseido Quandry does too
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: might have been scared away
[9:07] Rose Springvale: she said she was stuck, maybe under the streets
[9:07] Pip Torok: tell him it’s not _tjhat_ sort of meeting …..
[9:08] Rose Springvale: sending some ims to RA members, no one said they weren’t coming except Keila
[9:10] Rose Springvale: would someone who has arria on their list please send her a reminder. She was online earlier
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: she is not at the moment
[9:10] Rose Springvale: please send a note so it goes to offline?
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: ok
[9:11] Pip Torok: Arria’s not inworld atm …
[9:11] Lilith Ivory: sent her an IM
[9:11] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:12] Pip Torok: me too!!
[9:12] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:12] Rose Springvale: i sent to gwyn cindy and tor
[9:12] Lilith Ivory: Tor might be kissing babies
[9:12] Rose Springvale: solomon isn’t showing on my list, though we are friends, so not sure what that means!
[9:12] Rose Springvale: any word from mikelo?
[9:12] Pip Torok: … depends how old the babies are ….
[9:12] Rose Springvale: hi Soro
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Hello
[9:13] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hello
[9:13] Rose Springvale: we are trying to get some of the representatives here… but we are officially in the citizens concern section of the meeting. Want to talk?
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Hello Muh
[9:13] Pip Torok: solomons on my list … want me to im him?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: sure, i think mine is broken
[9:13] Lilith Ivory: sent to Sol
[9:14] Rose Springvale: ah, found him
[9:14] Rose Springvale: soro?
[9:15] Rose Springvale: come on, have a concern
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Nothing to add . . .
[9:15] Rose Springvale: okay, then we are through that part of the agenda
[9:15] Rose Springvale: Any additions to the agenda?
[9:16] Rose Springvale: not that we can vote on them without a quorum , but we can do our reports i think
[9:16] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:16] Rose Springvale: get them in the record, then the others can post theirs independently i guess
[9:16] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:16] Rose Springvale: 7 day votes
[9:17] Rose Springvale: Cindy was the only one who requested 7 day voting on the last meeting. She didn’t exercise the vote, so the Auditable Data Act failed
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: oy
[9:17] Rose Springvale: I’ve seen no proposal for anything to replace it, which was what the RA had discussed. So that one dies.
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: oh
[9:18] Rose Springvale: The other legislation we voted on last meeting, the Chancellor Budget and Accountability act, didn’t need the vote, so it stands as law
[9:18] Rose Springvale: Next on the agenda is final reports of the commissions. Let me say a couple of words on that then those of you who have reports can present them
[9:19] Lilith Ivory: I propose to have a graveyard for all good ideas that died
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Continuity is very hard in a community where the government changes every six months
[9:19] Rose Springvale: smiles at lilith
[9:19] Pip Torok: alot depends on the composition of succeeding government imo
[9:20] Rose Springvale: So what i’d really like to see from you commission chairs who’ve been out there working with the community all term would be just a short report… what we did, why, and what you see that still needs to be addressed
[9:20] Rose Springvale: if the successors choose not to take up those matters and build on it, that’s too bad, but at least they won’t have to recreate the wheel. If they choose to undo what has been done, they’ll have easy access
[9:20] Rose Springvale: that said.
[9:21] Rose Springvale: Lil, do you want to report on the Commerce Commission?
[9:21] Lilith Ivory: well, our commision collected a lot of great ideas
[9:21] Lilith Ivory: one was to make the direct TP in NFS permanent
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: I want to thank all again for making this law pass
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: also we founded the office of an commerce commisioner
[9:22] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: was that the right word lol?
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: you got me without being prepared hehe
[9:23] Rose Springvale: smile, sounds fine
[9:23] Rose Springvale: sorry
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: anyway I´m looking forward to see a commerce commision next term
[9:23] Courtney Beaumont: hello, am i allowed to be in here=?
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: so we can work with the officer
[9:24] Rose Springvale: public meeting Courtney
[9:24] Courtney Beaumont: excellent.
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: there is still a lot do do to increase commerce in the CDS
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Welcome
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: done for now
[9:24] Rose Springvale: maybe you can pass on some of those great ideas to whoever is appointed. I don’t think anyone has been selected as of now have they?
[9:24] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: think so also
[9:25] Rose Springvale: thanks Lilith
[9:25] Rose Springvale: Kas, have anything you want to say? I’ll welcome you two to post reports if you get time, though obviously that’s your option
[9:25] Lilith Ivory: I´m gonna stay in touch with the new chancellor to find me an officer to work with hehe
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry: Oh, given the option, I”ll write up and post a proper report
[9:26] Rose Springvale: Lilith, you’ll be on the RA, so you can take it up
[9:26] Rose Springvale: ah, okay. Did no one get the notices of this meeting? just curious
[9:26] Rose Springvale: i sent three i think
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: I did
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: but I can still chair the commision if we have one right?
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: all of them
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: that was my plan
[9:26] Rose Springvale: totally up to the next RA
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: right
[9:26] muhammedyussif Wikinger: me too
[9:27] Lilith Ivory: I got two
[9:27] Lilith Ivory: and one while I was off
[9:27] Rose Springvale: so maybe an intentional boycott. I’d have liked to have skipped too
[9:27] Lilith Ivory: was in the middle of horse birthing hehe
[9:27] Kaseido Quandry: me too – I’ve got a cold and seriously could’ve stayed in bed
[9:28] Rose Springvale: rescheduled travel plans here. oh well. last meeting
[9:28] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:28] Rose Springvale: Shall we adjourn or do you want my recap?
[9:28] Kaseido Quandry: up to you!
[9:28] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to hear it if you want
[9:28] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your time and service to CDS.
[9:29] Rose Springvale: having been a public servant here now for 4 years, i know that there is never enough people saying thank you.
[9:29] Pip Torok: back (dns foul-up)
[9:30] Rose Springvale: when we started this term, we started in turmoil
[9:30] Rose Springvale: i ran for RA, and LRA because i mistakenly believed that i could help heal some of that turmoil
[9:30] Rose Springvale: i was dismayed to be made the center of it, But that’s personal
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Publicly,
[9:31] Rose Springvale: we were committed to three things.
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Accessibility
[9:31] Rose Springvale: accountability
[9:31] Rose Springvale: and action
[9:31] Rose Springvale: we delivered on that commitment
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Accessibility
We held 13 voting meetings
-we debated and elected LRA., chancellor, archivist and one appointment to SC
-we voted little things… the way we numbered laws, online indicators, group roles and titles
-we appointed 5 commissions, and heard reports, proposed legislation, and debated many important laws in CDS, which we’ve reviewed here today Together those commissions held approximately 20 more meetings at various times and more than half the CDS population participated in at least one of them.
-we opened communication channels to the citizens, we cleared away outdated campaign restrictions, and created new ways for people to become Citizens[/i] [9:32] Rose Springvale: (strike the review! sometimes preparation has to presume things
[9:32] Rose Springvale: We also held 2 special meetings
-we met with the ownership board of the Al Andalus sims to understand the issues of the citizens regarding the merger
-we opened discussion of CDS expansion to the community
[9:33] Rose Springvale: Accountability
-We clarified and streamlined the way delinquent accounts are handled.
-We clarified and implemented procedures for the review of the budget
-We reported and transcripted all commission and RA meetings and posted them so all could review them at leisure
-We determined that the citizens should choose their Chancellor.
[9:34] Rose Springvale: Action
We have passed and implemented or updated many laws in the Code of Laws. I was going to count them, but thought i’d have time as they were reviewed here. The laws will help assure that CDS continues to be a vital democratic community in SL.
[9:34] Rose Springvale: It is easy and fun to talk about all the great work that was done this term, and review the accomplishments. But what we need to focus on more than looking back and resting on our laurels is what we failed at.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: We began the term with great possiblitiy. We had over 130 citizens, 11 sims.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: we now have 78, with more leaving
[9:35] Rose Springvale: We have no working relationship with the sims who share borders with us as cds
[9:36] Rose Springvale: We have not healed our personal disputes, and continue to see fractious behavior on our forums
[9:36] Rose Springvale: We failed to implement anything, or have meaningful discusson on Conflicts of interest.
[9:37] Rose Springvale: and we failed to gain the respect of many of the people who have been in the community the longest. Looking around the room for me underscorse this.
[9:37] Rose Springvale: Perhaps it is a personal failure, and for that reason i’ll completely withdraw from CDS public life.
[9:38] Rose Springvale: thanks again for working with me this term, and for trying.
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Any concerns of the RA?
[9:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think you made a good job Rose – well done
[9:38] Kaseido Quandry: Rose, thank you for your hard work and your constant patience in the face of provocation
[9:38] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:39] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[9:39] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Muh and want to thanky you for doing such a great job as LRA Rose
[9:39] Lilith Ivory: Imo we got more done than a lot of other RAs before
[9:39] Kaseido Quandry: absolutely
[9:39] Rose Springvale: yw… i hope you all have a successful term in the future, though our method has been labeld as boring and lifeless
[9:39] Rose Springvale: so i think perhaps i just don’t know what CDS is anymore
[9:40] Rose Springvale: i think it has become a place where people only like to fight, and that’s just not my way.
[9:40] Rose Springvale: Announcements?
[9:40] Lilith Ivory wonders if there are any plans for an inaugurial ball
[9:41] Rose Springvale: Delia has asked me to announce that the Chancellor election will end at 1:30 tomorrow,
[9:41] Rose Springvale: that being the statutory time period of 168 hours
[9:41] Rose Springvale: I talked to anna last week, and the ball having been one of the things that was codified, should be next weekend i think
[9:41] Rose Springvale: no
[9:42] Rose Springvale: the week after the term begins
[9:42] Rose Springvale: not novembe
[9:42] Anna Toussaint:
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: I haven’t heard of any …
[9:42] Lilith Ivory: Hi Anna
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: Hi, Anna
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: Hi, lilith
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: oops …
[9:42] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:42] Rose Springvale: Thanks for piping up Anna
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: my giddyup hiccuped
[9:42] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:43] Rose Springvale: any other announcements or comments?
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: I haven’t heard of any … is it the current aedministration’s responsibiliity?
[9:43] Rose Springvale: it always has been
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: kk
[9:43] Rose Springvale: because not enough time in the new one to handle it
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: I shall find out
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: nope
[9:43] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: makes sense
[9:43] Anna Toussaint:
[9:44] Rose Springvale: if no one has anything else to say, then we will adjourn
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry sighs
[9:44] Rose Springvale: can’t even have a motion or vote
[9:44] Anna Toussaint: has it been like this the whole meeting?
[9:44] Rose Springvale: Thanks for coming.
[9:45] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:45] muhammedyussif Wikinger: bye for now
[9:45] Lilith Ivory: thank you for having us
[9:45] Rose Springvale: I’ll transcript this then.

Permalink.

14th Representative Assembly (13)

RA Meeting 12 December 2010

Transcript RA meeting December 12
by Lilith Ivory » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:23 pm
[12:15] Delia Lake: so to start this meeting in order to be official
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: I have it, so I should just say it?
[12:16] Pip Torok: yes …
[12:16] Delia Lake: would you please recite after me, inserting your own name please?
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[12:16] Delia Lake: I [name], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: I Mikelo Serevi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[12:16] Pip Torok claps
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: ok, we’re official
[12:16] Lilith Ivory applauds
[12:16] Fern Leissa: clap clap clap
[12:16] Pip Torok: congratulations, mikelo
[12:17] Fern Leissa: Indeed. Congrats Mikelo
[12:17] Arria Perreault: clap, clap ,clap
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: I wish there had been more candidates…
[12:17] Delia Lake: congratulations, Mikelo
[12:17] Pip Torok: we all wish that mik
[12:17] Arria Perreault: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[12:17] Delia Lake: that would have been preferred, yes.
[12:18] Pip Torok: now … the next item … I’d like to propose Cindy as LRA
[12:18] Delia Lake: often though it seems that the ones who show up are the right ones for the moment. i do certainly hope that is so in this case and wish you all the best for this term
[12:18] Pip Torok: (if you are willing!:)
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: Actually Pip, I’m going to decline
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: cindy is certainly capable
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: and, nm…
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: there’s a possibility that I will have to take a seat on my RL township council in January
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: and if I do, I won’t have time for this
[12:19] Fern Leissa: oh. oh
[12:19] Arria Perreault: great !
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: well, fine then, hmmph
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: now we have a problem
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: lol! great that I’ll not be here, arria???
[12:19] Arria Perreault: (for your rl position, I mean)
[12:19] Fern Leissa: Yes. Great for the rl part, bad for us
[12:19] Pip Torok: yes …
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: heh heh!
[12:19] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: I´d propose Gwyn but she is hiding
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: I second gwyn
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: maybe that’s why she is hiding?
[12:19] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker chuckles
[12:20] Pip Torok: well i’d certainly support her
[12:20] Fern Leissa: Can we elect her without her consent? So to speak?
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: lol she´d love that
[12:20] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: I imagine we could
[12:20] Pip Torok: would not recommend it …
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: but she can’t decline then
[12:21] Fern Leissa: I’m just wondering about the law
[12:21] Delia Lake is thinking Gwyn will never, ever dare to miss another meeting if she’s elected LRA in absentia
[12:21] Sudane Erato: i’d just suggest that Gwyn might be very unhappy to have to fill that role
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: hehehe
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha!
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I think sudane might be right
[12:21] Fern Leissa: ok. Delia has a good point
[12:21] Sudane Erato: she is extremely busy
[12:21] Pip Torok agrees with Delia!
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: I´m afraid yes
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: well, fern is a ‘neutral’ party
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: are you interested?
[12:21] Fern Leissa: Huum. And if Sudane is right??
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: it´s Ferns first term
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker glares at Pip
[12:22] Fern Leissa: Fern’s first term
[12:22] Fern Leissa: Yes. What Lilith said. Definitly not me.
[12:22] Pip Torok: are you happy to be, Fern?
[12:22] Pip Torok: ah ….
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, how about you?
[12:22] Fern Leissa: But do I hear Lilith volunteering????
[12:22] Fern Leissa:
[12:22] Mikelo Serevi: what I’m getting at is, we’ve divided into two camps
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: I would but need your assistance with all the rules
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: rose’s and everyone else
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: lilith is rose’s
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: uhm so what?
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to keep some balance if possible
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: what???
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: Lilith is also CDSes
[12:23] Pip Torok agrees with lilith
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: I mean “what are you talking about Mikelo???”
[12:24] Cindy Ecksol: what is this about “camps”??
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: yes, let’s talk about the elephant
[12:24] Fern Leissa: Yes Mikelo.. I want to take Lilith as her own person, no matter who she is friends with
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes, but mik … whatever the situation, we still need an LRA
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: come on… rose and her people have been tearing down the republic
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: I´m not eager to become LRA but would do it to keep things going
[12:24] Arria Perreault: maybe Lilith can say some words about that, her position
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: bit by bit
[12:24] Pip Torok: I propose Lilith be LRA
[12:24] Cindy Ecksol: “her people”? who are these people??
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: in favor of some “modern” political model
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: in fact Rose is my best friend in SL but that does not mean I´m her puppet
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: which is so vauge I’m not sure it means anything
[12:25] Fern Leissa: Lilith is sitting here because she cares enough about CDS to run
[12:25] Pip Torok: my feeling exactly, Fern
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: does anyone here understnad what I’m trying to say?
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: I know exactly what you say and I deelpy dislike it
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: Rose is one of my best friends in SL too, but what does that have to do with fitness as LRA?
[12:26] Pip Torok: I understand but realise that Lilith is noones puippet
[12:26] Arria Perreault: I do, Mikelo. That’s why I would appreciate that Lilith say some words (I appreciate Lilith a lot and I know she loves CDS)
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve seen it before in democratic circles
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: a group decides they will take over
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: uhm what else should I say
[12:27] Sudane Erato: why not just vote on it?
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol is still wondering what this elephant is that mikelo sees so easily
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: I didn´t plan to become LRA but honestly I don´t see somebody else at the moment
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: rose and allies are tearing down the CDS republic in order to control it
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: would you like to become LRA Pip?
[12:27] Pip Torok: move to vote
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: that’s the elephant in the room no one will talk about
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: that´s nonsense Mikelo
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: oh for heaven’s sake, mikelo!
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: I never did anything like that
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: take a look at last term’s RA and THEN tell me about “tearing down” of CDS
[12:28] Fern Leissa: I think we have been polarized around all kinds of things, personalities, issues… I don’t know.
[12:28] Pip Torok: i wish i could but my diabetes lets me down … i become narcoleptic
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: and I wonder if you are the right person to sit here
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: it was a rubber stamp factory
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: while our chancellor wa being bullied
[12:28] Fern Leissa: I think we can work together to move beyond the fractures. I think Lilith can help us do that
[12:29] Arria Perreault: we will have to assume that the Chancellor, the Dean of the RA and the LRA share the same view abotut how to manage CDS
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: I thing of myself as being neutral
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol: now THAT is the purest nonsense I’ve every heard….take a look at how hard it was for Rose to organize the development and passage of that legislation!
[12:29] Delia Lake thinks she may have found the elephant. maybe now we can banish it from this chamber
[12:29] Pip Torok: anyone second my proposal?
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi: we can’t move beyondthe fractures until we are honest about them
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol: it was far from obvious that she could get ANY of it done!
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi: but what are we voting for, pip?
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: I think all of us want the CDS to do well
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol: this is just silly….
[12:29] Pip Torok: tghat lilith become LRA
[12:29] Arria Perreault: the other part that represent 50% will not have a key position in CDS
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, WHAT “50%”??
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: who are they and (more important) WHERE are they??
[12:30] Arria Perreault: the CDS is polarized about the way we have to manage our community
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: assuming, of course, that they’re not in this room
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: I don´t get that at all
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: nor do I
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: I know it might seem easier to minimize the problem
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: nobody wants to harm the CDS
[12:31] Arria Perreault: the results of the last elections show that clearly¨
[12:31] Cindy Ecksol: And, if I may be so bold, Arria….you do not have a voice in this decision.
[12:31] Cindy Ecksol: it’s for the RA members to decide…and you are not an RA member
[12:31] Arria Perreault: noboby want to harm CS, I know
[12:31] Fern Leissa: I’m sorry, but there is no one in this room I do not like and respect. I expect to be able to accomplish something constructive with them
[12:31] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps you should allow us to discuss without interference?
[12:31] Pip Torok: Mikelo … the problem as you see it is _trust_?
[12:31] Delia Lake: also, Arria, you do not have my permission to say how i think
[12:31] Arria Perreault: but there are different ways to manage our community
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: the problem is that a group has decided to take over
[12:32] Delia Lake: you, Arria, do not have any idea how i think
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: and push everyone who does not agree with them out
[12:32] Alexia Carnell discovers that typewrite democracy is harder to follow than bla bla democracy
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: which group Mikelo?
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: I’m all for cooperation, truly
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: not me for sure
[12:32] Pip Torok: who are the group exzactly, Mik?
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: Rose’s juggernaut, lilith
[12:32] Cindy Ecksol would also like to know who the group is
[12:32] Cindy Ecksol: How about names, Mikelo?
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: I´d be happy caring about my own business but I feel the community needs me here
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: lilith and cindy seem to be on board
[12:33] Cindy Ecksol: if you think there’s some kind of cabal, let’s hear who it is….the rest of us are not seeing it
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: tor is
[12:33] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:33] Pip Torok: will noone second my motion?
[12:33] Cindy Ecksol: I second lilith’s nomination
[12:33] Cindy Ecksol: thank you pip
[12:33] Sudane Erato: i wish i could, Pip
[12:33] Pip Torok: thank you ….
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: and many others are just trying to ignore it like it will go away
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: I am afraid I do not see how this has anything to elect an LRA, honourable Representatives.
[12:33] Fern Leissa: It doesn’t matter who you think the group(s) are, and probably there are multiple groups that cross lines, the point is that we find what we want to do … and do it
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: but, the fact is, CDS will not be a real democracy soon
[12:34] Cindy Ecksol: Lilith, are you willing to be LRA if elected?
[12:34] Cindy Ecksol: by your peers that is….
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: we did have policical factions, but they were abolished
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: yes as none of the more experienced are available
[12:34] Pip Torok: i think we have concluded discussion … do you agree?
[12:34] Cindy Ecksol: thank you.
[12:34] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:34] Cindy Ecksol: any other RA member have any questions for Lilith?
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: I should have hidden also hehe
[12:35] Sudane Erato:
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: rather a shame, but ok
[12:35] Cindy Ecksol: any community member have a specific question for Lilith?
[12:35] Pip Torok: move to vote
[12:35] Cindy Ecksol: one minute pip…
[12:35] Pip Torok: (lol)
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: None, ye I seond Pp.
[12:35] Pip Torok: you cant guillaume! …
[12:35] Fern Leissa: none
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of Lilith as LRA?
[12:36] Pip Torok: aye
[12:36] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:36] Pip Torok: cindy? mikelo?
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: abstain
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:37] Sudane Erato: lilith can vote, no?
[12:37] Pip Torok: yes she can
[12:37] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, will you vote?
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: (Just expressing my opinion, as she said community member )
[12:37] Cindy Ecksol: thank you.
[12:37] Fern Leissa: Yes Lilith. Thank you
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker claps
[12:37] Cindy Ecksol: four in favor, one abstention.
[12:37] Pip Torok claps
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: I have to thank you
[12:38] Cindy Ecksol: Congratulations Lil
[12:38] Sudane Erato: ty Lilith!
[12:38] Alexia Carnell claps
[12:38] Cindy Ecksol: I hand the gavel and the agenda over to you
[12:38] Fern Leissa: Congratulations Lilith
[12:38] Delia Lake: congratulations, LRA Lilith
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: hehe thank you
[12:38] Sudane Erato: good luck!
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: gez hehe
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: I will need your help to be a good Leader :9
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: Welcome back, Arria
[12:39] Fern Leissa: wb Arria
[12:39] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:39] Pip Torok: yes … welcome Arria …
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: So our chancellor isn’t here to tell us about the sandbox he’s planning to set up?
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: let’s make CDS into an infohub
[12:40] Cindy Ecksol: well, how about we hear his report, eh?
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: we can invite him to our next meeting
[12:40] Pip Torok: we have his report??
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: well, we could postpone until he’s here
[12:41] Fern Leissa: Yes. Lilith I think it is your read
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: uhm ok hehe
[12:41] Cindy Ecksol: is that a motion mikelo?
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: it is
[12:41] Fern Leissa: I think Lilith can read it. Is that correct Delia?
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: or seconding lilith, not sure
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: I´d prefer also to let Tor hold his speech himself
[12:41] Delia Lake: there are no rules on that. up to the RA
[12:41] Cindy Ecksol: is that a second, lil?
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: does anybody seconds Mikelos proposal
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: I think you just did
[12:42] Pip Torok: i’m happy as long as there is no time-dependent items in it
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Oh. Ok. Yes. Let Tor read it at the next meet
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Or not???
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Sorry I’m lost
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: ok…
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: mikelo moved that we postpone the report.
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: Lil…did you second?
[12:42] Pip Torok: may i make a suggestion?
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: sure pip
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: yes I second
[12:43] Cindy Ecksol: ok, ,then let’s vote
[12:43] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of postponing?
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:43] Pip Torok: when cindy was LRA she made use of some nifty software that helped the RA enormously … can I suggest Lilith and Cindy get together about it?
[12:43] Pip Torok: aye
[12:43] Cindy Ecksol: no…we don’t need software for just seven, pip
[12:43] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: right Cindy
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: I only used it beause we had 13 and that was unmanageable without helop
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: in the meantime….votes?
[12:44] Pip Torok: ah … withdraws suggestion
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: I vote “nay” — let’s do the report today
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: fern?
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, Pip, fern?
[12:44] Pip Torok: she voted
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: said aye
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: sry, fern said aye
[12:44] Fern Leissa: I already voted aye
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok…
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so the ayes have it….report postponed
[12:45] Pip Torok: and i voted aye
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to have the executive here more often anyway
[12:45] Pip Torok: just for interest .. any reason to have had the report read today, Cindy?
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: Tor took the time to write the report so that we could hear it as soon as possible. I think that’s a good idea
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: what about the 5time for our next meeting?
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: I can’t think of any reason to wait.
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: we need to get started so I´d suggest we meet sometimes next weekend
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: but on to the next….
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: ok, although saturdays are generally bad for me
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: there might be questions top Tor
[12:46] Pip Torok: I cannot make next weekend 9away)
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: good point lilith
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: what about thursday?
[12:47] Cindy Ecksol: Thursday???
[12:47] Cindy Ecksol: what time, lil?
[12:47] Pip Torok: thursday wd be good for me
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: we had thursday meetings before
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: I´m open for all times :9
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: that might work, yes
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: I´d likje to have a consens
[12:47] Pip Torok: noon again?
[12:48] Cindy Ecksol: my thursdays are generally not great….noon this coming thrus is out of the question
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: what about friday?
[12:48] Cindy Ecksol: how about sundays?
[12:48] Pip Torok: canty do friday …
[12:48] Pip Torok: or sunday
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: sundays are better
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: …Tomorrow?
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: anybody against sunday?
[12:48] Cindy Ecksol: no fridays at noon will almost never work for me
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol: no…next sunday, Guillaume
[12:49] Fern Leissa: I can do sunday, maybe I think.. Thursday
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: pip is away next, right?
[12:49] Pip Torok: not in principle lilith .. i just cant do next sunday
[12:49] Lilith Ivory: I see
[12:49] Fern Leissa: Huum. Week after is Christmas
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol: is pip the only one who will be absent next sunday?
[12:50] Pip Torok: looksw like it ..
[12:50] Fern Leissa: I can do sunday
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: and gwyn is an unknown
[12:50] Cindy Ecksol: well, we’re ALL going to be out sometimes.
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: she said she can´t do the next two saturdays
[12:50] Fern Leissa: Ah… Gwyn is also unavailable next weekedn
[12:50] Pip Torok: i’ll put in my request for a 7-day vote now, if I may
[12:50] Fern Leissa: I think Sunday too Lilith
[12:50] Cindy Ecksol: Sunday too?
[12:50] Cindy Ecksol: oh, well…
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: sigh
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: how many people do we need to have a quorum?
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: but we’ll be down to 4 next sunday then
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: 50% + 1
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: we need four for a quorum
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: how about Jan 2?
[12:51] Pip Torok: fine for me!
[12:51] Fern Leissa: OK
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: uhm do you really want to start this term so late?
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: no other choicse, Lil
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: isn’t that 3 weeks?
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: I´d prefer to have a meeting before the holidays
[12:52] Pip Torok: no .. but we have no choice it seems
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: weekdays are obviously not too great, and we’ve got two holiday weekends
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: I´m traveling at this time
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: from 12/27 till 1/6
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[12:52] Fern Leissa: Ah… that’s a problem Lilith
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: the holidays are a tough time
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Any rule against no doingit tomrrow?
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: isn´t there any weekday and time we can meet?
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: it´s only an hour or two
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:53] Fern Leissa: I think I can make Thursday
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: I could find time, but we need to get Gwyn in too….and she’s VERY busy weekdays
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: I see
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: could we operate asynchronously for part of it?
[12:54] Pip Torok: not possible, mikelo
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: I mean, discuss in the forums without voting?
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: do we have anything to discuss yet?
[12:54] Pip Torok: not yet! .. ;0
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: I´d prefer to have our meetings inworld
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: well, what our plan for the term is perhaps
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: but yes, in-world is best
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: well, learning about plans isn´t a bad idea
[12:55] Fern Leissa: Any point to meeting even if we don’t have enough to vote
[12:55] Tim Leckrone is Online
[12:55] Fern Leissa: I mean I’m asking if maybe we shouldn’t consider..
[12:56] Pip Torok: well there is one issue we’ll need to discuss
[12:56] Pip Torok: … the issue of enough candidates for an election
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: also we should continue working on the renewal of our covenants
[12:57] Pip Torok: true!
[12:57] Fern Leissa: Yes… I agree we need to pick up on the covenants and get that finished
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: we need another leader of this commision
[12:57] Fern Leissa: Who was leading it ? Sorry don’t remember
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: I thought lilith was
[12:58] Fern Leissa:
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: Keila was but imo a RA member has to be the chair
[12:58] Sudane Erato:
[12:58] Pip Torok: is that because of time or do you think an LRA is not appropriate as commission-leader?
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: Lilith was leader of the commerce commision
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: to much power for one person
[12:58] Fern Leissa: was? And Keila is now?
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: and to much work hehe
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: Keila is now Commerce Coordinator as far as I know
[12:59] Pip Torok: imo a citizen who’s keen and/or expert is best as the commissiohn leader
[13:00] Arria Perreault: why the different apppointments are not published?
[13:00] Fern Leissa: Hey… do we have a next meeting time yet? Did I miss that?
[13:00] Pip Torok: not yet…
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: are these commissions actually needed?
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: lol
[13:00] Pip Torok: imo yes
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: let´s talk about a new meeting time first
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: they seemed part of last term’s plan
[13:00] Pip Torok: YES!
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: sooo which day of the week
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: and at what time?
[13:01] Fern Leissa: Thursday, sat or sun for me (next week)
[13:01] Pip Torok: suggest jan2 onward … and noon
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: I´m not here on jan2
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: I’ll try to make anything work in the next few weeks
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Sunday’s looking best, to keep things rolling.
[13:02] Arria Perreault: some people seem better informed than I am. I did not read anything about appointment in the forums
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: but for regular meetings, sunday is my favorite
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine with sundays also
[13:02] Pip Torok: (and for me too, _as a rule_ …)
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: either day works for me
[13:03] Fern Leissa: Also me. Sundays are good
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: I can try to get in touch with Gwyn and Tor
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: to find out what works for them
[13:04] Fern Leissa: I vote for next Sunday. I agree with Lilith. We could at least get started talking and thinking
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: right Fern
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: I´d second that
[13:04] Cindy Ecksol: not without a quorum, fern
[13:04] Pip Torok: me too btw, Lilith
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: sigh Cindy is right also
[13:04] Cindy Ecksol: let’s see what Gwyn says about next Sunday
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: right
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: There will be < 4 present, no? [13:05] Fern Leissa: I understand we can't vote on anything, but couldn't we identify issue problems , upcoming legislation? [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes, Ithink so.... [13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Lil, Cind, Mik, Fern? [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes, that's 4 [13:05] Sudane Erato: talking surely does not require a quorum? [13:05] Fern Leissa: hehe [13:05] Lilith Ivory: right [13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha [13:05] Mikelo Serevi: it should be fine [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: we can talk, jus t can't vote [13:06] Lilith Ivory: Tor could hold his speech in case he is available [13:06] Pip Torok: you could frame a proposal ready for the full meeting to vote on! [13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, if you 4 are present, you can vote [13:06] Cindy Ecksol: yes, 4 can vote [13:06] Lilith Ivory: right [13:06] Cindy Ecksol: ok...so are we doing next week Sunday at noon? [13:07] Fern Leissa: Sounds good to me [13:07] Lilith Ivory: I`m fine with that [13:07] Pip Torok: me too!! (lol) [13:07] Cindy Ecksol: great! done!! [13:07] Mikelo Serevi: me too [13:07] Fern Leissa: [13:07] Cindy Ecksol: move to adjourn! [13:07] Fern Leissa: second [13:07] Pip Torok: second [13:07] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor? [13:07] Pip Torok: aye [13:07] Arria Perreault: I have an announcement ... [13:07] Mikelo Serevi: aye [13:07] Fern Leissa: aye [13:07] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:07] Cindy Ecksol: ok, adjourned.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 19 December 2010

Transcript RA meeting December 19
by Lilith Ivory » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:55 am
[12:00] Delia Lake: hello everyone
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: maybe your ao, beathan?
[12:01] Beathan Vale: yes — I don;t think Ilike this new viewer
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: no, I hate v2
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: the aganda is in the box
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Beathan, you on the most current version?
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: 2.1
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: hope you are all able to get it
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: 2.4
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: /me´s a little nervous all alone up here hehe
[12:02] Beathan Vale: sadly, yes
[12:02] Fern Leissa:
[12:02] Fern Leissa: umlat hehe
[12:03] Tor Karlsvalt: You do fine Lil
[12:03] Tor Karlsvalt: i mean madam LRA
[12:03] Cam Holiday: Don’t be nervous
[12:03] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:03] Sudane Erato: you’ll me great!
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: don’t worry, we dont’want to be up there
[12:03] Fern Leissa:
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Scary enough being here lol
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:04] Tor Karlsvalt thinks about being scared.
[12:04] Sudane Erato:
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: I saw Pip coming online
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: maybe we can start with Citizens concerns while the rest arrives
[12:05] Fern Leissa: Pip is on his way
[12:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Are we recording Lilith?
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: yes of course
[12:06] Trebor Warcliffe: Wasn’t sure if that was something that needed to be activated, thats all.
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: thought I would not have to mention it as there is a big sign behind me
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: or maybe we have election results and Treb is a new member.
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: think we lost that activation thingy a few terms ago
[12:06] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:07] Trebor Warcliffe: So we are addressing citizens concerns or waiting a few more minutes?
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Woot! Cindy
[12:07] Beathan Vale: Hi Cindy
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi cindy
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: our missing members are quite close
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: cindy and pip
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: Hiya cindy
[12:07] Delia Lake: we do not have election results until Tuesday eve at the earliest. very sorry about that. Jon had RL delays in getting the program updated
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip
[12:07] Cindy Ecksol: hi all. sorry I’m late
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Pip
[12:07] Beathan Vale: Hi Pip
[12:08] Fern Leissa: Hi Pip
[12:08] Pip Torok: hi … dratted teleporter!
[12:08] Cindy Ecksol: Steelers game at 4 and I had to get from the ballet thru downtown to home
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: good you could make it
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt laments he has not gotten a big TV.
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: ok let´s start with citizens concerns
[12:08] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I have a question.
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: yes trebor?
[12:09] Trebor Warcliffe: What is the situation with the Commissions? Do they carry over from last term or must they be reformed once again?
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: we have to vote on that but I´d like to continue at least a few as I think they did good work
[12:09] Trebor Warcliffe: I think they did great work.
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure there’s a rule either way
[12:10] Trebor Warcliffe: They allowed any and all citizens to participate.
[12:10] Trebor Warcliffe: And they were quite successful last term in bringing ideas to the RA.
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: yes and the transcripts have to be published
[12:11] Pip Torok: perhaps our LRA will have some words about commissions later on in the meeting …
[12:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Agreed, were not always available inworld so it is nice to be able to read transcripts in your down time and contribute that way also.
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: right talking about them is on the agenda right after the election of the RA archivist
[12:11] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: yes Calli?
[12:11] Callipygian Christensen: I have a concern when its my turn
[12:12] Trebor Warcliffe: I am done
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: Calli?
[12:12] Callipygian Christensen: I am concerned at the tone and intent of Mikelo’s comments in the first RA meeting and a subsequent post. As a *represntative* of the peope I had hoped that the invcoming RA members would start looking forward and attempting to begin a new phase of positive community.. I ask that you Mikelo, consider putting your energy into building, not continuing old vendettas.
[12:12] Callipygian Christensen: done
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: I call it as I see it
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Unless free speech is to be discouraged
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Hello Jeroma.
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: I have to agree with Calli. Lets let go of the past and move forward in a productive manner.
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi:
[12:13] Jeroma Wycliffe: Hi Tor
[12:13] Trebor Warcliffe: We can’t work towards the future if we dwell on the past.
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: I am not talking about free speech, so much as how tht free speech is presented when one represents a community.
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Calli also if I am allowed to say that my possition
[12:13] Pip Torok: remember … no RA member speaks for all the RA …
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: As long as the past is in fact the past
[12:14] Beathan Vale: those who forget the past …
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: I hope this RA will work together constructive during this term
[12:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
[12:14] Beathan Vale: I have a brief statement when there is a moment
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: of course
[12:15] Sudane Erato: I will note that Beathan is a new citizen
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: and an olld one
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: are you done Calli or are there any more comments?
[12:15] Sudane Erato: yes
[12:15] Trebor Warcliffe: Welcome to the CDS Beathan.
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Welcome Beathan
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: I am done Lilith..thank you for the time
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: Welcome Beathan
[12:15] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:16] Pip Torok: (Welcome new-and-old citizen!:)
[12:16] Sylvana Torres is Online
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: Beathan?
[12:16] Delia Lake: yes, welcome back Beathan
[12:17] Beathan Vale: Hi all — I’m back after a two year hiatus from SL. I look forward to becoming reacquainted with the CDS, which seems to undergone some changes, and to be a constructive addition. To everyone I don’t know, I look forward to meeting you. Thanks. My old property was available, so that’s where I can be frequently found — in CN
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: great!
[12:17] Delia Lake: oh good
[12:17] Trebor Warcliffe: I for one love constructive additions.
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: Glad to have you back
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: cool
[12:17] Pip Torok: me too
[12:18] Fern Leissa: Good to have yu as a neighbor
[12:18] Sudane Erato: you look the same as ever!
[12:18] Pip Torok: (ears not quite as long perhaps!:)
[12:18] Sudane Erato:
[12:19] Beathan Vale: LOL
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: any more citizens concerns? I see we have a full house today
[12:20] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: ok before we move to additions and changes of the aganda I wanted to inform you that I officially stepped back from my office as caretaker in the CDS
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: having both offices didn´t seem to be propper
[12:21] Trebor Warcliffe: Understandable
[12:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:21] Delia Lake: Noted
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: Is there really a conflict of interest?
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: Up to you of course
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: the govenmental threat of the portal needs to be updated btw
[12:22] Pip Torok: better safe than sorry espicially as Lilith is so open about it
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: no but it just didn´t seem to be right
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: I´m willing to help of course if needed
[12:22] Trebor Warcliffe: That and I’m sure the LRA position is quite a workload by itself.
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: any additions and changes to the agenda?
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: I placed Tor first as he is our guest and Sudane has to leave early
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you
[12:24] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: seems like everybody is fine
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: your turn Tor
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: ok thank you Ms. LRA
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I have my address in a nc, and will use a little gadget to read it quickly.
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: so if you would open your local chat box.
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Congratulations to the 14th RA as you begin your new term.
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I am honored to have been elected Chancellor of this wonderful sim, CDS, and to deliver to you the State of the Nation Address. As you may know, since coming to Second Life, I have attended many sessions of the RA.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I had prepared this address for the last meeting which I was unable to attend. I am happy to today to be available and deliver this State of the Nation Address.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: The democracy has achieved a new milestone with the direct election of the chancellor. This has been an improvement to the selection by the RA and should remove one point of contention within RA as well as allowed for a very smooth transition.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I wish to thank Sonja for being helpful these past few weeks.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Recently, there has been some controversy about the election of the current RA. Although fewer citizens stood for election than we had seats, I note that we had two viable candidates standing in the by-election for the open seat.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Thus, our democracy appears to be surviving. Both of these candidates are relatively new citizens and this stresses the importance of gaining new citizens. New citizens are energetic and eager to contribute and I hope an example to our older citizens.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: To that end this term will make attracting new citizens a primary focus. This must entail the promotion of CDS in SL and the marketing of our considerable vacant land.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: At present, LA is proving to be a difficult sim and has a significant portion of its parcels held by the government. At present, we should not worry as income from the sim is still sufficient to cover its costs.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Ownership in the alpine sims remains strong. However as of yesterday a number of parcels have been placed on private sale in Neufreistadt.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will promote CDS via group memberships, LL search and internet. Public events will be encouraged to display the standard CDS kiosk which will link to an updated listing of land for sale. The government will investigate the use of a scri
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: scriptomatic.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will investigate recent changes to LL advertising and marketing.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will set properties for sale at a reasonable rate with the stress on having most properties set for sale. Sale prices of property held by CDS will be reduced to a reasonable market rate.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will act on the approved parcelling of Alpine Meadow AH2 as recommended by the New Guild. Moon has just recently provided the map for the parceling:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3180&p=16797&hilit=AH2#p16797
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will seek to establish and maintain communication and cooperation with other democracies and governments in SL.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The Government will follow a good neighbor policy with Al Andalus. I will request that the New Guild consider how our open sim sides may be closed to provide a more aesthetic view from Al Andalus.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will look toward a new land communication between CN and Al Andalus.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will continue to support regional commissions and their scheduling of events. However we will ensure that events keep some focus on directing visitors to available land.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will encourage a report regarding each event as to the number of visitors brought into the sim and any efforts by organizers to sell land.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will organize a Christmas Market in the Neufreistat Platz.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The government has organized a concert in Alpine Meadow for Christmas. It will be Craig Lyons a very popular artist in Second Life, at 8 PM SLT on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: It has been posted in Notices, on the event Calendar and in SL Events.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will propose that future budgets extend into the next term to allow for programing as soon as the new term begins. The current, proposed budget and commentary can be found at:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: The government well encourage the Guild and RA to consider the development of a new alpine sim and or other sim project as opportunities arise.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will encourage the Guild to consider the rebuilding of the clock tower in NFS as it is textured in an unrealistic manner. For instance, heavy stone is above a half-timbered section.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will encourage the New Guild to highlight areas where the sims can be improved, if and when the new mesh technology and 60m prims become available.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: There is much work to be done. And I will need everyones help. It my hope we can all come together and make CDS the democracy and friendly place it should be. Much like Locus Amoenus is a nice place, so should all of CDS.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you all,
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Tor Karlsvalt
[12:31] Pip Torok: applause
[12:31] Lilith Ivory applauds
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Applauds
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: thx Tor
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: yw
[12:31] Cam Holiday applauds
[12:31] Callipygian Christensen applauds
[12:31] Fern Leissa: Clap, clap, clap. Tx Tor
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks all
[12:32] Pip Torok: possibility for questions, mme LRA?
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I do request Ms. LRA, that the RA pass on the budget as presented in the link
[12:32] Lilith Ivory opens her web browser
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: everybody ok with that request?
[12:33] Fern Leissa: Fine
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Naturally modifications are welcome, now or in the futre.
[12:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Very good
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: well, budget presentation is listed as next
[12:34] Sudane Erato: I’d like to volunteer that I support this budget completely
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you Sudane.
[12:34] Pip Torok: Are questions to the Chancellor permitted?
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: of course
[12:35] Pip Torok: well will the Chancellor be ensuring that enetertainment in oldworld-friendly hours are fairly available?
[12:36] Sudane Erato:
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh yes.
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for the question Pip, I do realize that the last few events have been at times a bit late for europe
[12:36] Trebor Warcliffe: May I ask what “oldworld-friendly hours” means please
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I will stess that we have a balance and preferable times good for all.
[12:37] Sudane Erato: 8 PM SLT is 4 in the morning for those in the UK
[12:37] Pip Torok: it means that ppl living outside the American Continent do not have to sit up during the wee small hours of the morning
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: but alas I think we will have to strive for a balance mostly
[12:37] Sudane Erato: and 5 in Germany
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: A yes,
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you for the clarification
[12:37] Fern Leissa: Madame LRA may I ask a question of the Chancellor?
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Pip, the concert for the 22nd was an opportinity that I felt we could not pass on.
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: of course Fern :9
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: and I will keep Euro times in mind.
[12:38] Pip Torok: yes but in that case you were constrained (as I understand it)
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the LRA is on so late that I forget that
[12:38] Sudane Erato:
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:39] Fern Leissa: I’m wondering about the projected revenue figures. Are these in some way taking in to account our vacancy rates?
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: I live in SLT
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: um I have not counted parcels currently held by the gov’t
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: so CDS is ok at the moment.
[12:40] Fern Leissa: Ok.
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: That said we need to keep attracting new people
[12:40] Sudane Erato: despite the number of yellow parcels, the tier revenues have remained remarkably consistent over many months
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: One must keep in mind also, that some of the yellow on the map represents private sales.
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: I have a question about attracting new people
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: These are still paying tier..
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Mikelo
[12:41] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point Tor.
[12:41] Pip Torok: if our occupancy rate compares well with most other sims … may it not be the actuall reason for the shortfall is Extra-SL?
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: Are these efforts going to try to find people interested in democracy?
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes always, Mikelo. I point to my new poster and group inviter.
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: This is not a challenge to you, I’m really asking
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: The focus is on showing CDS as an experiment in democracy.
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: no problem Mikelo
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I do note, that all of us can help in recruitment.
[12:43] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Mr. Vale has just offered an excellant idea of going to polysci groups
[12:43] Pip Torok hopes that more regard us as a practising democracy rather than simply as an experiment…
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy, let me answer Pip
[12:43] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: I had thought that, pip. Some of us call it home, too
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: well regarding Land vis a vis SL.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: It is true that SL is under pressure from RL.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: However, some sims still go very well.
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we can be one those sims, and indeed, in many respects are right now..
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: As Sudane notes, we do rather well as a sim.
[12:45] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[12:45] Sudane Erato: yes, we do
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy>
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: ?
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: not so much a question for Tor,
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: but a motion.
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: yes?
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: there seems to be some concern about the budget and in the interest of time and efficiency, I wonder if we ought to delay a vote until next meeting
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: I so move…is someone willing to second?
[12:47] Frances Ying is Online
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd, I’d like time to review
[12:47] Tim Leckrone is Offline
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Um, the govenmen is under some constraints
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: It can be amended in later sessions but I would like a budge passed.
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: it has been posted to the forum since the 13th
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: my net has been out since the 15th
[12:48] Cindy Ecksol: I would too, but there are clearly concerns judging by the number of questions
[12:48] Cindy Ecksol: Tor, perhaps you could dig up a few prior budgets and give us a retrospective look?
[12:48] Tim Leckrone is Online
[12:49] Lilith Ivory: imo that would be a good idea as not all of us are financial experts
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I believe the links to prior budgets are in the comentary.
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol: last term, and I believe Jamie had a budget for the 11th term even if he didn’t do one for the 12th
[12:49] Lilith Ivory: (including me)
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol: how about putting them in a spreadsheet for us, Tor?
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: At any rate, we can do this the good ol’ US of A way
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol: make it easy — you’r ethe expert, we need spoonfeeding
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: RA should pass a conintuing resolution to allow the government to function under the past budget
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Tor I have some spare time these next few weeks I would be able to help you with this if needed.
[12:50] Cindy Ecksol: well, first we have to vote on this motion
[12:50] Cindy Ecksol: call the vote?
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: do we have a second yet?
[12:50] Pip Torok: yes… mikelo
[12:50] Cindy Ecksol: yes, iti was seconded
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: I take sudane’s support as a sign it’s a good budget
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: ok all in favor for Cindys motion say aye please
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: but I haven’t digested it yet
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:51] Pip Torok: aye
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:51] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: motion carries
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: ok guys, you know you just shut down CDS
[12:52] Pip Torok: ???
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: no, we didn’t yet….
[12:52] Sudane Erato: please remember that some auhorization is now needed to spend CDS money, other than tier
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: you can still continue working
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: exactly
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: I move that we pass a resoulution continuing theh 13th term monthly budget until a new one is in place
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane is correct
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: thanks mikelo
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: A CR
[12:53] Pip Torok: move to vote?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: do we need to discuss or are we ready to vote?
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: can’t leave tor hanging
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: all in favor for Cindys motion say aye please
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:53] Pip Torok: aye
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:53] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: ok, that’s fine
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you all.
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: we must have our music
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: now Tor, will you please get us the info we need on projected revenues (given the number of parcels for sale) and a spreadsheet comparing past budgets?
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: thank you Tor
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: among other things
[12:54] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: yes Calli?
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: sure that would be fine.
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: then we can happily pass your proposal and go our merry way…or intelligently propose alternatives
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: thanks!
[12:55] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[12:55] Callipygian Christensen: In addition to Ciny’s comment..there are a number of parcels owned by the govt that are not set for sale
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I will note that the presented budget has projected revenues based on parcels owned as of the 13th
[12:55] Callipygian Christensen: (with that raising again for me the question of if iter is set high since so many parcels can be non productive) can we get those inclued in the accoutning?
[12:55] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes there is Calli.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: um, I think tier is anoher issue.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I tihnk it is high, but RA needs to dicuss tier.
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: Calli how do you mean included in the accounting? Like best case scenario if all land was owned by citizens that is currently up for sale?
[12:57] Callipygian Christensen: indeed, but I think if parcels and potetial income are bieng considered, laving them unmentioned isnt appropriate
[12:57] Trebor Warcliffe: What would our income be with full capacity?
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: let me look i have that i think
[12:58] Callipygian Christensen: Trebor, I’d just like to see them included somewhere in the accounting..how or where is not a worry -just that we be aware they exist and show up somewhere
[12:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok i think that can be accomplished.
[12:59] Delia Lake: that does make sense to me from a management perspective
[12:59] Trebor Warcliffe: Do we know why there are government owned parcels that aren’t listed for sale that should be listed?
[12:59] Beathan Vale is Offline
[12:59] Trebor Warcliffe: Going back to Calli’s original comment.
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: 504844 linden would be our total tier.
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: how do we know they exist?
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: At full capacity Tor?
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Mikelo
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: In my travels
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: I maintain the CDS Owners/Citizens list
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: There are propertys that list Rudeen Edo as owner
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Some govenment parcels have not been placed for sale by past chancellors porbalbly to limit the amount of yellow on the map.
[13:01] Pip Torok: I believe the reasohn was aesthetic, Trebor … the colour yellow was picked because it was originally assumed that unsold plots wd form a small proportion of the total sim
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: That aren’t currently on the yellow map
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: yes at full capacity our tier is 504844
[13:01] Fern Leissa: Is that for 6 months Tor?
[13:01] Trebor Warcliffe: We should not limit the amount of yellow on the map in my opinion.
[13:01] Pip Torok: (I’m talking of the whole of SL rather than of CDS, Trebor)
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: no per month
[13:02] Fern Leissa: kk
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: The yellow does allow citizens to sort of see the situation in the SIMS.
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: some were designated as open land, as I recall
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: some might be used for prims
[13:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Not them
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: um, no, i am not counting any LV land.
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: I’m referring to repossed properties
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: repossessed
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I was using the total tier found on the master parcel lists
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: That should be made available for sale
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: I just don’t want to get into a finger-pointing scenario here, since the CDS is doing ok
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: No, we do have some parcels for private sale.
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: naturually any of those could be abandoned.
[13:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Tor that is where I would gather the information.
[13:04] Fern Leissa: Ok if we get back to the budget for a sec?
[13:04] Fern Leissa: I’m wondering if we shouldn’t include a Program catagory
[13:04] You decline Auctions by Kath from A group member named jaed Cartier.
[13:04] Fern Leissa: specifically for “democratic” events
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we can, probaby take money from music events.
[13:05] Fern Leissa: Maybe a speaker on inworld governance, whatever
[13:05] Cindy Ecksol wonders if that’s te opposite of “undemocratic events”
[13:05] Fern Leissa: that is separate from social or community event funds?
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I assume you mean programs, like poetry or lectures?
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: sure i think we should do more of that
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: I think they would be included in social or community events
[13:05] Fern Leissa: Yes programs, exactly
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: we do get some of that from metanomics
[13:05] Pip Torok: perhaps we should say “democracy-promotong” events, Cindy
[13:05] Trebor Warcliffe: The budget is a broad painting so to speak
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: it would also help target ppl who would be potiential citizens.
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: yes we do Mik
[13:06] Fern Leissa: True. I’d like to see more like metanomics
[13:06] Beathan Vale is Online
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: but we could do some of it ourselves too
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Or even Delia might have ppl who could give lictures about ecology.
[13:06] Callipygian Christensen excuses herself with wishes for a productive meeting..later all
[13:07] Delia Lake:
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: i am very open to that sort of programming.
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: So the current budget is open to this already?
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: One citizen also suggested having art fairs.
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: well, current/future
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it is Mik, although not expressly mentioned.
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I was already thinking of having some of that programming.
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: The way I see it the budget allocates money to certain subjects such as events
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: And than it is up to us
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: To go into detail and decide how that money is spent
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Quite so Trebor.
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: that is my understanding of it also.
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: we don’t need to concentratie on music.
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: That’s where we address these wonderful ideas such as lectures
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: seminars
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: fairs
[13:08] Trebor Warcliffe: etc.
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: A commision would definitely help in this area
[13:09] Cindy Ecksol: I loved the sessions someone (Calli?) ran a while back to write “micro-fiction”
[13:09] Cindy Ecksol: was very good fun
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree trebor
[13:09] Trebor Warcliffe: All with the goal of promoting the CDS and growing the CDS.
[13:09] Pip Torok: “events commission”??
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I think those were at Fugit Hora.
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Jayme Mistwalker ran them
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: Events or it may fall into the communications commission
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi: I think this can be run informally
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: well we have the regional commissons.
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: The Roman is active.
[13:10] Trebor Warcliffe: I’m just trying to type out ideas as they come to mind
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: but I think anyone with an Idea can come to Me or anna
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: and we can plan it
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Beathan mentioned poly sci groups.
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: They might have interesting lecturers.
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: Even starting somethign as simple as a forum thread about it would accomplish something
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: these are all good ideas.
[13:11] Pip Torok: agress with Trebor
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi thinks trebor just volunteered
[13:11] Trebor Warcliffe: LOL
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:11] Fern Leissa:
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I am in world a bit, so anyone who wants to talk in world can just IM me. Also, there are he forums.
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: my email is Tor.Karlsvalt@gmail.com
[13:13] Pip Torok: (with the caps, Tor?)
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: caps aren’t really necessary.
[13:13] Pip Torok: ok …
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Also there is a mail box on my cabin.
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: any more questions at Tor?
[13:15] Pip Torok: (for the records, the cabin is in AM)
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: if not we might want to move forward to our next point on the aganda
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: ah yes, where the monastery used to be
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt restfully takes a seat. whew
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:16] Pip Torok:
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: Election of a RA Archivist
[13:17] Cindy Ecksol: not elected, appointed….
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: Cindy agreed to continue with that office if there are no other volunteers
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: oh ok
[13:17] Cindy Ecksol: and I would be happy to continue.
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: Will you have time, cindy? I know you mentioned Rl things
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: I´m happy you do Cindy
[13:18] Cindy Ecksol: still have the issue of the missing transcript from July 9 to clean up from last term, but aside from that no big deal
[13:18] Pip Torok: Cindy could I ask that you point citizens to where the up2date constitution and laws is held ??
[13:18] Cindy Ecksol: Pip, the constitution is currently updated with everything from last term EXCEPT what might have been passed on July 9
[13:18] Cindy Ecksol: I can’t find a transcript for that meeting
[13:19] Cindy Ecksol: you can find the constitution and laws on the portal, but give me a sec and I’ll pull out the link
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: here’s te code of laws, and there’s a link on te right to the Constitution: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=codeoflaws
[13:20] Pip Torok: thanks!…..
[13:20] Delia Lake: there are some codes and posts that are not quite up to date as i recall. Cindy, when i find spots when i’m doing SC research i’ll email them to youy
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: yes, tere are lots of things missing from previous terms.
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: we had no archivist for 2 or 3 terms as I recall
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: if you can identify some, Delia, I’ll fix them…
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: but we really need a piece of work to comb thru the archives in a systematic way
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll see if I can do some of that over the holidays
[13:24] Cindy Ecksol: reember, the archivist can’t do anything with a public source
[13:24] Trebor Warcliffe: So Cindy will retain the position of archivist?
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: as there does not seem to be any objections I´m appointing Cindy for RA archivist now
[13:24] Cindy Ecksol: so even though I remember that we passed a law saying that the RA had to hold a meeting within a week, I have no SOURCE for that without the transcript and can’t update the portal
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Very good.
[13:25] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:25] Cindy Ecksol: I keep meaning to ask Rose for that transcript and forgetting, but I will try to remember
[13:25] Fern Leissa: Thank you Cindy
[13:25] Cindy Ecksol: yw
[13:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes thank you Cindy
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: thank you Cindy
[13:26] Cindy Ecksol: BTW, for what it’s worth the software for managing the portal is (to use an Englishism) bloody awful
[13:26] Pip Torok: now now! )
[13:26] Cindy Ecksol: really takes an expert to figure it all out unfortunately
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: this is not phpbb, but the other one?
[13:26] Delia Lake: what software is it?
[13:26] Cindy Ecksol: no, not phpbb….the software being used to maintain the web site
[13:27] Cindy Ecksol: editing a page is downright archaic
[13:27] Delia Lake: do you recall what software is used to maintain the CDS site?
[13:28] Pip Torok remembers a source-editor that _was_ bloody awful …..
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: can we move to the next item on the agenda? we are about to run out of time I think
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: In my opinion we got a lot of work done last term due to our several commissions. So I´d like to continue at least a few of them.
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: We could also table until next time
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: sure I don´t plan to make us do overtime
[13:29] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll dig it out delia — dont’ remember offhand. but the editor is as Pip describes it
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: I’m ok either way, depending on how others feel
[13:30] Fern Leissa: I could stay about 20 min more, if others can
[13:30] Cindy Ecksol: (for the record the portal software is TYPO3
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: Does anyone have a list of the commissions from last term?
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: but would like to have a vote to continue at least with some commissions as thex did a good job
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: Communications
[13:30] Trebor Warcliffe: Finance
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: not handy Trebor
[13:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Commerce?
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: Covenant reviewing
[13:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Trying to remember them off the top of my head
[13:31] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, could we find out which commissions still have a list of things to do?
[13:31] Cindy Ecksol: maybe get a report from eac at the next meeting and authorize the ones that have not finished their work?
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: the Covenant commision just started at the end of the term
[13:31] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps that have new projects.
[13:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Thinks Covenant Review should be HIGH on the list.
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: and I think it´s important for it to continue
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: My only concern with these is that they pulled most discussion out of the RA
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: yes, Covenant commission would be one….we KNOW that has new work
[13:32] Pip Torok again agrees with Trebor …
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: Mik, they SHOULD pull discussion out…and then publish it on forums
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: takes too much time here
[13:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Mikelo in a way they may have but…
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: and I also found a vict …volunteer already who is willing to chair it
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: that’s the whole point — they discuss, the community debates, they report recommendations, and we vote
[13:32] Trebor Warcliffe: They allowed a lot to be accomplished which brought to the table for the RA
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: exactly Treb
[13:33] Trebor Warcliffe: So the RA didn’t have to spend endless hours dealing withit
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: any RA membber is free to go to the commission meetings
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Trebor
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: but will we?
[13:33] Trebor Warcliffe: And it allowed hte citizens, govt officials or not to contribute
[13:33] Pip Torok: exactly
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure activity is good just for its own sake
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Its not for its own sake
[13:34] Mikelo Serevi: but anyone can contribute here as well
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes and no
[13:34] Cindy Ecksol: Mik, if we DON’T go, it’s our own darn fault….
[13:34] Pip Torok: “just for its own sake”? … don’t quite understand …
[13:34] Fern Leissa: So far, I like the idea of taking it “out” to the community, but I think we also need to allow the ra adequate time to digest
[13:34] Cindy Ecksol: that’s where the detail work is done — they can spend a whole hour discussing one issue and then the next meeting on just ONE issue…until they have a set of recommendations
[13:34] Mikelo Serevi: that’s what I mean, fern
[13:34] Trebor Warcliffe: Agree
[13:34] Cindy Ecksol: we don’t have time for that here
[13:35] Cindy Ecksol: so those of us who are interested and want to give input, we’ll go….
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: the Commision chair will give a report to the RA at every meeting anyway
[13:35] Cindy Ecksol: and not complain that we “didn’t have input” if we don’t show up
[13:35] Cindy Ecksol: or at least hand a notecard to the commission chair
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[13:35] Trebor Warcliffe: Many of us are limited on our inworld time
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: My feeling was the commissions were taking policy formation out of here
[13:35] Fern Leissa: We have time for discussion … but yes main issues and concerns could be worked out in the comission mtgs
[13:35] Cindy Ecksol: then hand a notecard with your concerns to the chair. or comment on the forums
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: then they came back for a rubber stamp with last term’s majority
[13:36] Trebor Warcliffe: It’s my understanding that the RA still has to approve whatecer the commission proposes Mikelo
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: well, that’s how it works in a democracy…
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: right Trebor
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: it’s not a “rubber stamp”, RA could turn down their proposals
[13:36] Trebor Warcliffe: The commision brings the RA a proposal and the RA acts on it
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: it was last term
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: or modify…and sometimes we DID
[13:36] Pip Torok: they don’t “come back for a rubberstamp” imho, Mikelo
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: and we still had a lot of work bringing the proposals in a acceptable shape
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt recalls wide support for all the laws passed, including from Gwyn, pip and Arria
[13:37] Fern Leissa: Yeah. Comissions but no rubberstamping. We need a balance btw efficienty and discussion
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not saying I’m against commissions, I’ve been on them
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Fern
[13:37] Trebor Warcliffe: And ANYONE can join a commisision, citizens and RA members alike
[13:38] Pip Torok: … its big strength ….
[13:38] Delia Lake: for what it’s worth, my recollection is that last term RA commission chairs reported their progress at just about every RA meeting
[13:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats what I remember reading the transcripts
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: right and I´m going to continue that
[13:38] Pip Torok: mine too…
[13:38] Delia Lake: and that there was RA discussion almost every time
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Last term I wasnt able to come to RA meetings much.
[13:39] Trebor Warcliffe: The transcripts were a lifesaver for me.
[13:39] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:39] Mikelo Serevi: I’m just saying, maybe not a commission for every little thing
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: well, the things we have commissions for are generally BIG things that can’t easily be debated in the time we have here
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: I only have two on my agenda right now anyway
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: true lilith
[13:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point. Think about it though if its a commission for something “little” its probably not going to get support anyhow.
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: we can talk about more next time
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: commissions are a chance to air all kinds of options and filter them down to the ones that seem the best
[13:40] Pip Torok: one way, Mikelo, is to propose “ad-hoc” commission only if and when the need arises …
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: at least to those who participate in the commission
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: so are you all ok with me motion to continue the covenant with Fern as chair?
[13:41] Pip Torok: seems so!
[13:42] Fern Leissa: Hello. Who was chair before?
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: it was Keila but a RA member has to be chair
[13:42] Cindy Ecksol: I move that we continue the Covenant Commission with Fern Leissa as chair
[13:42] Cindy Ecksol: second?
[13:42] Fern Leissa: But she would know what’s been done?
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: she agreed to continue working in that commision
[13:42] Pip Torok: second
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: all in favor say aye please
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: it is in the transcripts.
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:43] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[13:43] Pip Torok: aye
[13:43] Trebor Warcliffe: Last term Rose posted a link on the Forums for a Covenant Review. I’ve found it quite handy in my studies of the covenants.
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: fern?
[13:43] Cindy Ecksol: can you share treb?
[13:43] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Natually, the exec well help in anyway.
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:43] Trebor Warcliffe: Let me go look for it, back in a sec.
[13:43] Fern Leissa: Ok Thank you Tor
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: concrats fern
[13:44] Cindy Ecksol applauds
[13:44] Pip Torok: ]/me claps too
[13:44] Fern Leissa: tx Cindy
[13:44] Fern Leissa:
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: the other commission I´d like to continue is the Commerce Commision
[13:44] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, can we ask other commissions for a brief report on their current “work in progress” for next meeting and then vote whether to continue each?
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: sure I can invite the commision chairs to our next meeting
[13:45] Cindy Ecksol: I need to know more about what the others are up to before I’m ready to vote
[13:45] Cindy Ecksol: does’t even need to be an “in person” report — a notecard will do
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: ok I´ll take care about that
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: this seems reasonable
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: the other commision I wanted to vote for now is the Commerce commission
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: I was the cair befor but can´t do it now as LRA
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: there is still a lot to do to increase commerce
[13:46] Cindy Ecksol is not ready to vote on that without more info
[13:46] Fern Leissa: I agree with Cindy
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: and it would be a good change for the community to work with the Commerce coordinator
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Heres the forum posting with all the links.
[13:47] Trebor Warcliffe: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3105
[13:47] Cindy Ecksol: let’s get an “upcoming items” agenda from each commission and do the reauthorizations next time
[13:47] Pip Torok: errrm circular argument? … no commission with info on commerce, to be provided by a commission????
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: ok sounds ok for me
[13:48] Fern Leissa: I als wonder if some commerce issue might not be in Tor’s area of responsibility. Need clarification
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: we might have to vote for more commisions anyway
[13:48] Mikelo Serevi: people already sell here, what more is needed?
[13:48] Trebor Warcliffe: To actually make some sales maybe?
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: the problem is they don´t sell much
[13:48] Cindy Ecksol: ok…let’s table this until we see what’s on the current agenda of the commerce commission
[13:49] Cindy Ecksol: if we don’t like the agenda, we can refuse to reauthorize
[13:49] Cindy Ecksol: that’s how democracy works
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: ok anybody in favor for tabling it say aye please
[13:49] Trebor Warcliffe: I would encourage all to dig through the forums and read the transcripts from the Commission meetings you are curious about.
[13:49] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:49] Trebor Warcliffe: I found all of them to be quite informative
[13:50] Pip Torok: aye
[13:50] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:50] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: ok we table it till next time
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: (reminds me I forgot a item on the agenda lol)
[13:51] Beathan Vale: good to see that we are using the word “table” like Americans and not like Brits
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: uhm I try to use it somehow as it´s not familiar for me poor german
[13:52] Beathan Vale: the ambiguities of rules of order in international meetings
[13:52] Trebor Warcliffe: lol
[13:52] Pip Torok: (earlier, had meant to say, circular argument : we have no commission, because to have one, we would need information that only a commission on commerce could provide … …)
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:52] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, yes
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: what do you think about the online indicator boards?
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: do we want to keep them?
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: What are they?
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: like the ones outside?
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Oh for the RA members
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: If they’re online
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t think I EVERY got a tap from them…but seems like a good idea
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: boards that show which RA members are online at the moment
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: *EVER
[13:53] Trebor Warcliffe: As a citizen I like htem
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Because they do show who ever visits who our elected officials are
[13:54] Mikelo Serevi: They seem good, as long as someone is willing to maintain them
[13:54] Pip Torok: I’m happy with them even though I’m generally at the receiving end …
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: I always liked them but now as I might be responsible for updating them I like them a little less
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:54] Trebor Warcliffe: hehe
[13:54] Pip Torok: )
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: At least it’s fewer now
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: will have to wait till the byelection is over anyway
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe:
[13:55] Trebor Warcliffe: hoping
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: seems you are all in favor?
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: let´s vote so it´s all correct hehe
[13:55] Pip Torok: it seems we are!
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: all in favor say aye please
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: sounds like a second, aye
[13:56] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:56] Pip Torok: I propose we continue Online indicator boards
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: do I hear a second?
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol: second
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol whispers: lol!
[13:57] Pip Torok: aye
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: /giggles
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: re-aye
[13:57] Pip Torok: I think we’ve been shaken not stirred!
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: ok I´ll have to find out how updated the board last
[13:58] Cindy Ecksol: I think we gave cards to Sudane and she did it, no?
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: think so also
[13:58] Mikelo Serevi: rudeen owns it
[13:59] Delia Lake: question and suggestion. might the Chancellor be added to the board also? it might be really helpful to folks to see whether the Chancellor is inworld
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: I´ll ask to give the cards and pics to Rudeen when we are complete
[13:59] Trebor Warcliffe: I like htat idea
[13:59] Mikelo Serevi: that makes sense
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: I have no objection to that.
[13:59] Pip Torok: an excellent idea imo
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: I´d like that also
[14:00] Delia Lake: this may take a slight reconfiguration but might be worth doing
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: and would support it.
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Just list the Chancellor first on the board
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly the PIO as well.
[14:00] Pip Torok: I propose the Chancellors name be added to the online Indicator Board
[14:00] Trebor Warcliffe: Another good point
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: yes
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: we have some space left now :9
[14:01] Delia Lake: then people who need help with CDS things could find people easily
[14:01] Trebor Warcliffe: yup
[14:01] Pip Torok: anyone second my proposal?
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd
[14:02] Pip Torok: move to vote
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: all in favor to add Chancellor and Pio to the board say aye pülease
[14:02] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:02] Pip Torok: aye
[14:02] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:02] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: motion carries
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: any concerns of RA members left?
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt my last bit of peace flies away on the wind.
[14:03] Cindy Ecksol:
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:03] Fern Leissa: hehe
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: before we move to anouncements I´d like to know when to meet next
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: what do you think?
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: after new year’s for sure!
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: yes I agree
[14:04] Mikelo Serevi: the 2nd?
[14:04] Trebor Warcliffe: 2nd a Sunday?
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: I still hope to be travelling on the 2rd
[14:05] Pip Torok: what day is the 2nd?
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: two weeks
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: sunday
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: sunday?
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: even if snow messes with flight plans at the moment
[14:05] Trebor Warcliffe: As a citizen I like the 2nd
[14:05] Pip Torok: agree … Sunday 2nd at noon?
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: I won´t be there most likely
[14:05] Beathan Vale: I don’t like a hungover RA —
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: I think I can do that…..
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: lol beathan
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: HEY GUYS!
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: I can´t come on 2rd
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: ok, so no LRA… the next week?
[14:06] Pip Torok: hmmmmm
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: ok….how about 9th?
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: yes that would work for me
[14:06] Pip Torok: perhaps Cindy might care to sit-in as deputy?
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: I´m sorry for the delay
[14:06] Fern Leissa: 9th is fine
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: well, I could sit in on second, but I can’t make it on 9th
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: sounds like others have issues with the 2nd also
[14:06] Trebor Warcliffe: work on the 9th cant attend
[14:07] Pip Torok: (Trebor, that assumes you will habe been elected !! ))
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: Even as a citizen
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: lol
[14:07] Trebor Warcliffe: I hope im elected byt not counting my chickens before they hatch
[14:08] Cindy Ecksol: oh…right
[14:08] Lilith Ivory: Cindy would you be willing to sit in as deputy on 2rd?
[14:08] Cindy Ecksol: I could do the 2nd
[14:08] Delia Lake: i’m hoping folks are voting. i’ll send out a reminder again in a few min
[14:08] Cindy Ecksol: wil we have enough for a quorum?
[14:08] Lilith Ivory: if it continues snowing I might be able to be here just can´t make promises
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: it sounds like it
[14:08] Cindy Ecksol: heh heh!
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn might be back sometimes also
[14:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Delia
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: so should we/you meet on 2rd with Cindy as deputy?
[14:10] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so meeting on the 2nd….let’s put it on the calendar
[14:10] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, make sure you give me an agenda…
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: I will
[14:10] Cindy Ecksol: at least as much as you know
[14:11] Pip Torok: i’m just glad it will be at 8pm so I’ll be less hung-over ….
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: yes will care about it before I hopefully fly to US
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: if we’re done with this, I have a brief announcement….
[14:11] Pip Torok: (8pm english-time that is)
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: ah, where are you going to be in US Lil?
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: yea I hope to be in Ohio
[14:11] Trebor Warcliffe: brrrr cold
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: but at the moment airports are about to close
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: oh Europe is having bad weather.
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: yea more snow than we can handle
[14:12] Pip Torok: “a brief announcement”, Cindy?
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: yep….
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: for those who missed my Christmas concert in CDS a couple of weeks ago, I’ll be dooing one at Music Island this evening at 5pm SLT
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: so come on over and bring friends
[14:13] Pip Torok:
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: good.
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: we’ll be warm ad cozy there….
[14:13] Fern Leissa:
[14:13] Delia Lake: yes, comd sing with Cindy at Music Island tonight!
[14:13] Mikelo Serevi: nice
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: it’s a date
[14:13] Delia Lake: i’ll put out hot cider and mulled wine )
[14:14] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure I can go, but I’ll try
[14:14] Pip Torok: (shame it’ll be at 1am London-time!:)
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy did a nice show on the 5th.
[14:14] Pip Torok: yes !
[14:14] Delia Lake: plug in your earphones and listen from bed, Pip?
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: great!
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: will be happy to see you all there…
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:14] Fern Leissa: Under the stars
[14:14] Pip Torok: might well do ….!
[14:15] Delia Lake: you all have LM’s?
[14:15] Fern Leissa: yes
[14:15] Mikelo Serevi: I do
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: no I don´t think so
[14:15] Pip Torok: yes …
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Try to make it to the Lyons Concert this Wednesday too.
[14:15] Delia Lake: yes, do come to hear Craig. he is very good also
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol will be traveling and my father-in-law still lives in the age of dial up
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:16] Mikelo Serevi: :-@
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: thank you
[14:16] Delia Lake: smartphone + tether
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Buy him a 4G wireless connection for christmas.
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: should we adjourn now?
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: ah yes Delia good idea.
[14:17] Mikelo Serevi: second
[14:17] Pip Torok: move to vote!!
[14:17] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:17] Pip Torok: aye
[14:17] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:18] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:18] Cindy Ecksol: (nice job Lil)
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: we are adjourned now
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: pew
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:18] Pip Torok: agree!
[14:18] Mikelo Serevi: it went well
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: yes thank you all!
[14:19] Fern Leissa: Great Lilith
[14:19] Cindy Ecksol: oh, forgot to mention that I have e-mail addresses for everyone I think…I’ll put them on a notecard and distribute
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: good idea

Permalink.

RA Meeting 2 January 2011

Transcript RA Meeting January 2nd 2011 noon PDT — 1 of 2
by Pip Torok » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:56 am
[11:58] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Mikelo Serevi (6m), Guillaume Mistwalker (8m)
[11:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, I see
[11:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: I wasn’t sure if I was early
[11:58] Pip Torok: hi G hi M
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: hi pip
[11:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Pip
[11:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: I suppose I was stand where you normally do
[12:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm.. no agenda for the meeting?
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: it probably hasn’t been put in the box yet
[12:01] Pip Torok: unless theres an agnda in the urn..
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: I think we’re going to swear you in, pass the budget, and talk about commissions
[12:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see.
[12:02] Pip Torok: sounds like it
[12:02] Pip Torok: I didnt know whether bromo wd put something in
[12:02] Pip Torok: sorry beahan
[12:02] Pip Torok: hi Tor!!
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Tor ツ
[12:03] Pip Torok: did you see my forums post to yours?
[12:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi All
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: it’s our fearless leader
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi:
[12:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Haha
[12:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh, been out fighting dragons.
[12:04] Tor Karlsvalt: ooo left my coffee, brb
[12:04] Pip Torok: you must tell me what nd’alnobai means
[12:04] Pip Torok: ah .. caffeine-starvation … gets to us all
[12:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, it means “I am Abenaki”
[12:05] Pip Torok: ah!
[12:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m I still wearing that? Haha
[12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Welcome back, Tor
[12:06] Pip Torok: well lets see who’s online ….
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt remembered he had a freeky title on.
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy said she could not make it.
[12:07] Pip Torok: hi Fern … coming to the RA meeting?
[12:07] Pip Torok: ah!!
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Fern!
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Fern ツ
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hello everyone. Very sorry to be late
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Well with four we have a quarum
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, we do
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: at least with Guillaume.
[12:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Very true…!
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: once he’s sworn in
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Can we come to order before that?
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: although I don’t think the chancellor can make a quorum
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: no not me
[12:08] Fern Leissa: Isn’t Cindy supposed to be standing in for Lilith?
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: just asking.
[12:08] Pip Torok: nope .. the one thing he cannot do …
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: i think she was Fern.
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:08] Pip Torok: ah …
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: well, I’m inclined to wait for lilith and others
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Lilith is traveling.
[12:09] Mikelo Serevi: oh, hi fern
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Even if they don’t come…?
[12:09] Fern Leissa: Lilith is out of town I think
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: she is in Ohio.
[12:09] Mikelo Serevi: that’s right, cindy was standing in
[12:09] Pip Torok: thats right
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: So.. we need a deputy, deputy LRA?
[12:09] Fern Leissa: Right. That sounds like what I remember
[12:09] Pip Torok: well cindy was the deputy?
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: I think she volunteered to stand in anyway
[12:10] Fern Leissa: Hi Mikelo
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Cali intends to be here to administer the oath to Guillaume
[12:10] Pip Torok: well we cant swear g in until another arrives …
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, thank you Tor
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Alas, I don’t see Cali online
[12:10] Pip Torok: as were not technically a quorum yet
[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: no Delia either.
[12:11] Mikelo Serevi: thanks for your thoughtful response in the forum, fern. I haven’t had time to respond yet
[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we can just have a discussion.
[12:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Does there need to be a quorum to swear one in?
[12:11] Pip Torok: yes ….
[12:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: An interesting provision…
[12:11] Mikelo Serevi: It seems proper anyway
[12:11] Pip Torok: yes because we can only swear someone in when were in full session
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: sort of a snag.
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: but if we have no quorum, there will be no voting anyway
[12:12] Pip Torok: but lets discuss!
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see, but what if it’s the beginning of a term?
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Mikelo
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Well the SC swears in the new RA.
[12:12] Pip Torok: thats not relevant as far as i know
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: that’s why we get sworn in quickly, I imagine
[12:12] Pip Torok: lol …
[12:12] Fern Leissa: np Mikelo. Haven’t seen you in much. Pretty busy?
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: yes, hectic, moving into a new place
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: gee I have two houses.
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I will keep my mom’s
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: but geesh
[12:13] Pip Torok: wheres your second house, Tor?
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: oh I have a condo
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: lots of housekeeping, I imagine
[12:14] Pip Torok: (er I meant in SL!:)
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: but been living at my moms and running over to the condo all the time for stuff
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: oh on the mainland.
[12:14] Pip Torok: ah
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: in Vitersonus.
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: oh, that’s rough, two houses
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: I mean RL
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: bad time to think of selling one. to
[12:14] Fern Leissa: rls sl yikes. I’m lost
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: too
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: I left my fave tweezers in the apt too ;-(
[12:15] Fern Leissa: I just sent Delia an Im in case she’s checking her email
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: ahah
[12:15] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:15] Pip Torok: I cd try to skype Cindy ….
[12:15] Fern Leissa: kk
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Shoot sometimes I am in a store and figure, oh easier t buy another
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: than to keep running between homes.
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: yes, probably
[12:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Perhaps
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: gee no cali yet
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: does your condo have an attached garage?
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it does, Mik
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: and heated
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the one thing i miss at my mom’s house.
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: ok, so hard to make a choice between th e house and condo
[12:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: There’s Calli
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Cali
[12:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I’d like a condo, actually.. I like smaller places
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I like both mik, pros and cons for each.
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: yes, yard work sux
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, it does…!
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: i sort of did it anyway for my mom, so no change.
[12:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: with a condo, no raking no shoveling snow..
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: and her lot is small, in the city.
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: right guill
[12:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, that’s good
[12:18] Fern Leissa: Tell that to new york
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha!
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: hi calli
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Calli
[12:18] Callipygian Christensen: hello..I am late
[12:18] Fern Leissa: Hi Calli
[12:18] Pip Torok: no answer from cindy on skype
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: No Cali, not really late
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s ok, we were just discussing homes versus condos
[12:18] Callipygian Christensen: Delia asked me to come today and administer the oath for Guillaume
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: it’s a diffucult time of year for a meeting
[12:19] Callipygian Christensen: Cindy said earlier she wouldnt be here Pip, at a RL funeral
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: They aren’t sure if they can come to session withoiut a quarum.
[12:19] Pip Torok: ah .. well till g’s is swrn in were on yet in full session .. doesnt that affect the issue calli?
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: well, people were sworn in at the ball before…
[12:20] Pip Torok: ok then lets do it!
[12:20] Callipygian Christensen: I dont believe you need a quorum for the taking of an oath
[12:20] Fern Leissa: Good point
[12:20] Callipygian Christensen: just a few witnesses
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: I sure hope not, but that’s regardless
[12:20] Callipygian Christensen: I havent been a cloud in ages
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I see you
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hah, you’re normal to me
[12:21] Pip Torok: do do I
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: i see you fine
[12:21] Fern Leissa: yeah. You look fine to be Calli. No cloud
[12:21] Pip Torok: so do i
[12:21] Callipygian Christensen: hmmm
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I actually ruthed somehow a couple of months ago
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I didn’t think that was still possible
[12:21] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:21] Pip Torok: nor me!
[12:22] Fern Leissa: scary
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: That must be an interesting site…!
[12:22] Pip Torok: so shall we do it then, Calli?
[12:22] Callipygian Christensen: I believe so Pip, you will all act as witnesses
[12:23] Callipygian Christensen: I don’t believe there is a tradition of placing a hand on anything Guillaume..so perhaps just stand?
[12:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes ma’am
[12:23] Callipygian Christensen: Please repeat after me:
[12:24] Callipygian Christensen: I, Guilluame Mistwalker, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: I, Guillaume Mistwalker, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:25] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE …..
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: ♪♫♥ Applauds!!! ♥♫♪
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: ツ
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: yay, tie-breaker
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen smiles..congratulations
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, Madam ツ
[12:25] Fern Leissa: Applause applause !!!!!!!!!!!!1111
[12:25] Pip Torok: and now we are four!
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: woot!
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: Although not in session, could someone ensure this is sent as a log to your archivist?
[12:26] Pip Torok: ok i’ll be deputy LRA if we need one …
[12:26] Pip Torok: certainly
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi: I’m fine with that
[12:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: I am as well
[12:26] Fern Leissa: yes. Thanks Pip
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Nice duds too Guillaume!
[12:27] Pip Torok: right … well we are short of an agenda …
[12:27] Callipygian Christensen: ok, so Pip, you’ll send it to the archivist?
[12:27] Pip Torok: so i’ll ask you if there are urgent issues youd like to bring up right now
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thanks, Tor
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have none, Pip
[12:28] Callipygian Christensen: I hate to administer and run, but RL has me busy this afternoon
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: well, there is the budget, but maybe we should all discuss it next time?
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok thanks Cali
[12:28] Pip Torok: ok then … i suggest we talk about how we feel about Commissions
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: cu calli
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you Calli
[12:28] Callipygian Christensen: darn..Id be interested in that discussion..bye everyone
[12:28] Pip Torok: I _personally_ are happy with the arrangement .. but only if the rest of you are
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi: you mean the current number of commissions?
[12:29] Pip Torok: well commissions in principle for the moment … details afterwards
[12:29] Fern Leissa: I have to say that I prefer we limit commissions to specific tasks
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: well, I think they can be very useful and a time-saver
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, to both
[12:30] Pip Torok: I agree … Mikelo, guillaume?
[12:30] Fern Leissa: And in some cases I wonder if responsibility doesn’t belong more with the exe branch
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Do pardon me for asking, but what commissions are we specifically talking about?
[12:30] Fern Leissa: I think my biggest concern is the Commerce Commission
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: well, I don’t think we should push too much power to exe (no offense tor)
[12:31] Pip Torok: just what I was thinking … too many “ad hoc” commissions is definitely a danger
[12:31] Fern Leissa: If we have one… what do we want it to do that is different from what Tor would be looking after?
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: problem
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: although, yes Pip, as I’ve said, I think we have too many commissions atm
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: waht was your concern about the commerce commisssion, Fern?
[12:32] Pip Torok: ok … does anyone have the current list?
[12:32] Fern Leissa: I think I wan its mission to be more defined
[12:32] Fern Leissa: Not just get commerce going… but specifically…???
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I think commerce is a concern that CDS has struggled with for along time.
[12:32] Pip Torok: well theres the commission to be on covenants
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Covenants need work.
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, which is why I think Fern’s right about defining its tast
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, we have the commerce and covenant commissions…
[12:33] Fern Leissa: What several merchants said to me was …”another commission won’t do any good. We keep having them but nothing happens.”
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes, the covenants one is important, to clarify that tier is due, for one thing
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: lol Fern
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: Is the citizenship commission stil about?
[12:33] Pip Torok: in fact the tighter the definition of a given commission and its aims is imo crucial
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: what is the problem, that there isn’t enough traffic to sell here?
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: can I introduce something?
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: I think that’s true, Mik
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: the citizenship one passed a bill last time
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: re citizenship?
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: or last term
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, ok
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: let me find it
[12:34] Pip Torok: I think so Mikelo .. but i’d like to see a concrete putcome and aim for each commission , especially that of commeerce
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I personally think that democracy and commerce are somewhat at odds
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: so I’d like to see the goals, too
[12:35] Pip Torok: otherwise its talk that gets nowhere
[12:35] Pip Torok: a good subject to bring up in that commission imho mikelo!!
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: I mean, selling is something that people do in SL, but it isn’t the only thing
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: perhaps the RA should plan more about what the Commerce Commission will do, and divide into sub-commissions from there?
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Really Mikelo, I think it was the business class that began pushing for more say in parliament.
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: or even German freetowns.
[12:37] Pip Torok: Pat once made the point that we in CDS are a democracy, true, but beyond that we are other things … builder, merchant, musician etc
[12:37] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not saying I’m anti-commerce at all
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Pip, we should focus on joining many communities, too..
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: musicians, builders, etc.
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: I try to patronize CDS merchants, too
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: We already get a few musicians and artists, now we need the rest…
[12:38] Pip Torok: lets devise an aim for the commerce commission … I propose “how to increase trading revenue to CDS” for starters
[12:38] Fern Leissa: I think people have a question about what the can sell here. That may be something we have to straighten out
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: I do too, Mikelo
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: And government should assits those endeavors.
[12:38] Fern Leissa: One person told me she though she couldn’t sell her stuff here cuz it wasnt roman
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: Well, maybe we can ask the proposed commerce commission to present their goals to us? I don’t want to second-guess them
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: Although traffic seems to be a factor in selling
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I think that isn’t true Fern.
[12:39] Pip Torok: now that i’d like to hear from the person concerned …
[12:39] Fern Leissa: Not sure that is something in the covenants. I haven’t seen that, but apparently at least there has been some discussion along those lines
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Several people are selling non-roman stuff.
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, I see Fern
[12:40] Fern Leissa: Right. No I agree. And bunnies in roman times… well they would have been dinner not pets
[12:40] Pip Torok: ok … then thats something for any covenant commission to tackle … do you agree?
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: haaha
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: even now they belong in pots.
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree, Pip
[12:40] Fern Leissa: Yes that’s a thought
[12:40] Fern Leissa: hey !
[12:40] Pip Torok: (and ppl eat their pets.. and even boil them!;)
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: you mean they present to us what they want to do, and we consider, Pip?
[12:40] Fern Leissa: I have a pet bunny in rl !!!!
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha!
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: oops
[12:41] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: got any pictures, Fern?
[12:41] Fern Leissa: But yes, I’ll try to introduce it in the covenant discussion
[12:41] Pip Torok: yes … well we should be considering the obstacles that traders find … and for that we need traders talking and grumbling to us
[12:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: That sounds like a good idea, Mik, but we should provide specific areas for the commission to ponder about
[12:41] Fern Leissa: pictures?? So yu can see if its fat enough for dinner . huum
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, like what Pip said. A plan and goals for the term
[12:42] Pip Torok: .. like “how to increase revenue from traders and trading” …
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: Fern, I’m a member of PETA
[12:42] Pip Torok: PETA??
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Wooo… Peta ツ
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Does anyone know what the history behind the lack of traffic in NFS is. That the vendors aren’t selling anything?
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: People for the ethical treatment of animals
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: yes, an animal right group
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Bunny is good on peta bread.
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: rofl
[12:43] Fern Leissa: Really Mikelo?
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt speaks out of tern.

Pip Torok
Passionate Protagonist

Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:52 am
Top
Re: Transcript RA Meeting January 2nd 2011 noon PDT — 2 of
by Pip Torok » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:02 pm
[12:43] Pip Torok: well its a question of broadcasting our existence
[12:43] Fern Leissa: I heard that Tor
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s more than that I think, Tor…
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s not only that, but also if we attract people
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: *Pip, not Tor
[12:44] Fern Leissa: We have gotten a few new people.. like Rosie. But I think she gets hardly any traffic to her store
[12:44] Pip Torok: for example .. we should have traders like Rosie here now telling us what the problems as they see them are
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we are going to look into advertising in magazines for starters
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, good idea
[12:45] Fern Leissa: I agree we do need better advertising
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: or idea(s)
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Also we should use our groups to advertise to our Friends of CDS
[12:45] Pip Torok: I do know she had traffic problems at her former place … so it may just be a SL-wide problem
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Also we need to increase our group membership
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: so we have placed group inviters as various places in the sim and at Anzere.
[12:45] Pip Torok: ah .. im glad you mentioned that Tor
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, citizenship’s dropped off alot, Tor
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: we have four new members for friens in the last two weeks
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: how much has it dropped?
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: also we have started using a subscribomatic
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: we had 206 members
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: now have 210
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: in the CDS group
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I remember when I was campaigning, it went down from 100+ to now 76 citizens
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: To attract people interested in government
[12:46] Fern Leissa: Yeah, that’s what I thought
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, interesting
[12:47] Fern Leissa: 76 citizens
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: i was going to ask the LRA is we could list RA meetings on the LL event calendar.
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: we have lots of friends of CDS
[12:47] Fern Leissa: That is a good idea. We are the main act at this moment lol
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: we need to remember that they are potiencial citizens
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, they are
[12:47] Pip Torok: good idea Tor .. who do we see to get it done?
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: well I need the LRA as approval of course
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: as yoiu know you guys are the kings in this room.
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: representatives
[12:48] Pip Torok: ok … can we suggest you do that Tor … it doesnt need a motion imo
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: But I and some other exec or volunteer should be on hand to greet non-citiznes and give them the rules.
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: I agree Pip
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: no right pip
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut don’t want to spring stuff on you.
[12:49] Pip Torok: “no right Pip2??
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I’m a little concerned about randoms soming in and disrupting
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: but not too concerned
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: well that is an issue
[12:49] Pip Torok: i can greet noncitizens if you like ….
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: and I think some exec should be her to handle that sort of thing
[12:49] Fern Leissa: disrupting? we are our own worst distrupters
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: i can volunteer to do the rulez thing if you like
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: but, maybe someone with eject privileges should be present as well, just in case
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I know I visited often before buying in and enjoyed the meetings.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: right mik
[12:50] Pip Torok: well if we are afraid of possible griefers we cd devise a boot-out-procedure
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I know Lil has them still
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I do
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Anna
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: right, one warning, then adios
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree, Mikelo
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm… Is the group LV here?
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Agreed, Mik
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: for non-citizens anyway
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: No this is Colonia Nove
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: noa
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, ok
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Nova geesh
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh btw,
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m not sure if I have the rights, then
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I have been working a bit with sudane and sonja to add event hosting rights to the LV and CN groups
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: We need to work on the group prerms a bit.
[12:52] Pip Torok: thats a point … we need to see Anna about putting you on the display, Guillaume
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Er… display?
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yes, I will mention that to Anna.
[12:52] Fern Leissa: Guillaume on display??
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: for RA reps online
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I am supposed to be there too
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: it’s outside the room here
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh, right
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: and the PIO too.
[12:53] Fern Leissa: ah dah tx Mikelo
[12:53] Pip Torok: the ones outside the rathaus and other points
[12:53] Pip Torok: yes you are Tor
[12:53] Pip Torok: (ie should be on that display)
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: Right
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane suggested that we try to get press reports in some of the SL mags.
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s true, I roleplayed with a group that did that and membership boomed…
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: that’s a good idea
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: So if anyone is doing something of interest, maybe we can work that up into an article.
[12:54] Pip Torok: ok then … now do we have any other issue other than commission to deal with at the meeting?
[12:55] Fern Leissa: I’m wondering how we get ourselves listed under the showcase tab. I’ve discovered a lot of places that way
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: well you could approve the list of sponsor locations.
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes Fern, we need to look at that.
[12:55] Pip Torok: if we do not I propose that we wind up the present meeting and ask lil to set the next meeting
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s true
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Keila’s sim was on the showcase.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: she might know.
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: my main concern for that is how we attract people interested in democracy
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: can you guys approve the list of sponsor locations.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Right Mikelo.
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: Where is the list?
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: that is why I thoiught the RA meetings migh be of interest to some
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key … 2YgO#gid=0
[12:56] Pip Torok: quite … cdnt see it on the Forums Tor
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: ok here is the link
[12:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: There you go
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3197
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Maybe there is a problem Pip, but I see it.
[12:57] Fern Leissa: I agree with Tor. The meetings themselves might be interesting to people interested in seeing how democracy works in sl
[12:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s true
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: but I did have the wrong link before, so maybe you looked before i fixed it.
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: this is what we discussed, about allowing citizenship through sponsorship
[12:58] Pip Torok: How do we feel about the name-plaque btw?
[12:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s a very good idea, I’ve concidered it, myself.
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Well Mikelo, that is what CDSL 13-10 allows
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: we can do that or have one monument to sponsors.
[12:59] Pip Torok: should we allow ppl to remain anaymious for example?
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: yes, Arris’s citizenship bill
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, could on opt out of having a monument?
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: well true, they can.
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: Arria’s
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: anonymous? why would anyone want to hide?
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: I think just so we know who is a citizen, we should have something in public.
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I would like to remain anonymous if I did do it, Mikelo
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: altough Sudane will be making a tier box for each.
[13:00] Pip Torok: modesty, for example
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: oh, but this wasn’t open to citizens
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: right?
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: it was a path to citizenship
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: well I suppose citizens can, but it was intended to offer a new way for ppl to become citizens.
[13:00] Pip Torok: imho they shd elect to remain anonymous if they wish
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t see how it wouldn’t be open to citizens
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: the idea was to have it as a way for people to join without having to maintain land
[13:01] Pip Torok: ah … in that case, I withdraw the suggstion of anonymity …
[13:01] Pip Torok: there shd be visible badges of citizenship imo
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah, i think it should be public.
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm… fair enough
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: mainly because it is about gaining citizenship.
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would agree with knowing who is a citizen
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: You can bet btw, that I am not advocating a monument like the Christ in Rio.
[13:02] Pip Torok: well the SC certainly need to know!! ;|
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, the SC would know, by the tier boxes
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: True.
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe that is enough.
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: still I can tie all of you to some land if I POKE! around.
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: That seems the most reasonable way to determine who is a citizen or not..
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s true
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Going to need alot of poking, for some ツ
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: well i just want it out there, we can discuss the details later.
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think there is a huge rush for this.
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Though, as Tor suggested, we should discuss the locations people can sponsor
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: on this list, how many parcels are we talking?
[13:05] Pip Torok: certainly not
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: really not many
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: I understood that the monastery was one, divided up into 250M bits
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I listed about two things per sim
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: AM only has roads.
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: same for Monastery
[13:06] Pip Torok: well when we acquire another sim ……
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: I suggested the Rataus and Platz in NFS
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Could someone sponsor the lake in Monastery?
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: and The amphiteater and forum in CN
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: the Mundi in LA
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes guillaume
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: That woudl be good
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: We could also sponsor the temple in LA
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: it was right there and I didn’t see it!
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s a good idea to give people inexpensive options, but if we offer too many, we will have more trouble selling land
[13:07] Pip Torok: well the way to go imo is to approach non-citizens first of all
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: ツ Glad to be of help
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s true
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: To both points
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Well teh sponsorship doesn’t give anyone land rights.
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: We really need to push land.
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: right, but we have had problems with group membership as a power base before…
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I am thinking we need to discount parcels.
[13:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Though, the other issue would be those who just want citizenship, really, and not the land
[13:08] Pip Torok: one point … do we have a mechanism to ensure that contribution s to a location are accounted for?
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane will make a Tier box for each sponsor and attach it to what she calls a microplot.
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I agree with the reducing the price of land
[13:09] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to see how many people would be coming in for each of these locations
[13:09] Pip Torok: ok so the citizen can point to the particular improvement due to his subcription
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I tihnk that is all it is Pip.
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Any one for selling naming rights
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: :
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: LOL
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: And it will foster more citizenship-government co-operation
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, we were talking about this earlier, Tor..
[13:10] Fern Leissa: No please no naming rights
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip, you want the Pip Amphitheater?
[13:10] Pip Torok: agree guillaume
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: just kidding
[13:10] Pip Torok: no … imagine the confusion between that and the old Bowl!!! )
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: The Lufthansa Kirche…
[13:10] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt tears up the contract with the cigarette company.
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: haha
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: “Traveling to Heaven’s never been so cheap!”
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:11] Pip Torok: I propose we adjourn the meeting! … second?
[13:11] Fern Leissa: Second
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: did we ever come to order?
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, but I think that the current list is good
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: i think you did
[13:12] Pip Torok: right g … your first ever vote …
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: informally, we rather did
[13:12] Pip Torok: call the question
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: so aye
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree
[13:12] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Really this was a bad weekend for meetings.
[13:12] Pip Torok: aye
[13:13] Pip Torok: I suppose it was ….
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: (question, Pip?)
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: thanks for standing in, pip
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, thank you
[13:13] Pip Torok: let me copy and paste this
[13:13] Pip Torok: ok .. tho its not a task i particularly like!
[13:13] Fern Leissa: Thanks Pip
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: I wouldn’t either…!
[13:14] Pip Torok: meeting closed ….

Permalink.

RA Meeting 16 January 2011

Transcript RA Meeting January 16th I
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:25 pm
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all
[12:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Pip
[12:00] Pip Torok: hi G hi all
[12:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Seem Anzere was attaced by a griefer.
[12:01] Pip Torok: ??!
[12:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: As have the forums, lately…
[12:01] Pip Torok: mmm
[12:01] Rosie Gray: everything sorted now Tor?
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: odd
[12:01] Arria Perreault: Hi Everybody
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve only seen one griefer at CDS before
[12:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Arria
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: It has happened before, same sort of an attack
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi arria
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: they kind of do the same sort of things…
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: lots of huge blocks.
[12:02] Arria Perreault: Hi everybody. Happy New Year!
[12:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Calli
[12:02] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: lol, how original
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: yes! Happy new year from me also
[12:03] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Guillaume, everyone else
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Yes. Hello everyone
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: hmmm … who is missing?
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Fern
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: ah Cindy
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Hi Guillaume
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: do we know wether Cindy is going to come?
[12:04] Callipygian Christensen: hi Soro
[12:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hey! Soro
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: I guess we’ll see about Cindy
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: yes
[12:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello All.
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: ok as we have a quorum we should start the meeting I think
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Agenda is in the box
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: and of course the meeting will be transcripted
[12:06] Gwyneth Lewellen says hi and apologises for being afk’ish
[12:07] Pip Torok: hi Gwyn …
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: Calli do you want to swear Gwyn in now?
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: np gwyn, and hi
[12:07] Callipygian Christensen: Madame Chair..perhaps we can dispense with the swearing ..at least the swearing in – first?
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: me too on the afk’ish
[12:07] Gwyneth Lewellen: Mh.
[12:07] Pip Torok: any reason calli?
[12:08] Callipygian Christensen: Pip..I suspect Gwyn needs to be swornin before things become official for her? I may be mistaken
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: sure if there is a reason
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: yes that´s why I asked you to swear Gwyn in
[12:09] Pip Torok: i agree with Madame Chair
[12:09] Callipygian Christensen frowns
[12:09] Callipygian Christensen: ohh
[12:09] Callipygian Christensen: LOL
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:09] Callipygian Christensen: I typed dispense not commence
[12:09] Pip Torok: ah well )
[12:09] Callipygian Christensen: I was wondering why you wouldnt want to do it first lol
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: lol
[12:10] Callipygian Christensen: Gwyn..are you with us?
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: now I´m lost
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: it was a confusion between dispense and dispense with
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: everyone wants to swear gwyn in
[12:10] Rosie Gray laughs
[12:10] Callipygian Christensen: Dont worry about it Lilith.I tyepd the wrong word and Pip responded to that
[12:10] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:11] Callipygian Christensen: and Gwyn is AFK or crashing
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn seems to be multitasking today
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: that´s why she in here with her ALT
[12:11] Callipygian Christensen: perhaps proceed with citizen concerns until we have her attention
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: yes hehe
[12:11] Pip Torok: agree
[12:11] Gwyneth Lewellen: (sorry lol)
[12:11] Arria Perreault: I have concerns
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: aaaah here she is
[12:11] Callipygian Christensen: oh..hold that thought Arria lol
[12:11] Gwyneth Lewellen: I was actually looking for the text for the swearing on lol
[12:12] Gwyneth Lewellen: *in
[12:12] Callipygian Christensen: Gwyn..with no hsitory of hand on a book, please just stand and repeat after me:
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: (you can cut and paste..no need to find
[12:13] Gwyneth Lewellen: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:13] Gwyneth Lewellen: (ty so much, Calli )
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: ♪♫♥ Applauds!!! ♥♫♪
[12:13] Gwyneth Lewellen: lol
[12:13] Lilith Ivory applauds
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker claps!
[12:13] Pip Torok: applaud!!!!!
[12:13] Fern Leissa: applauds
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: congratulations Gwyn
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[12:14] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:14] Rosie Gray: yay
[12:14] Fern Leissa: Yes congratulations
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt gets coffee
[12:14] Arria Perreault applauds
[12:14] Soro Dagostino: WOOOOOT!!!!
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: before we move on I´ve a short announcement to make
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: Tor asked me for permission to place the times of our meetings on SL events
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: hope you don´t mind I gave him permission to do so
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s a good idea
[12:15] Pip Torok: that sounds fine to me …
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I did that for this meeting.
[12:15] Fern Leissa: good idea
[12:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, good idea
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: and if nobody is against it we should continue having it there
[12:16] Gwyneth Lewellen: Oh! Good idea… the meetings are public, so, I’m fine…
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: good
[12:16] Gwyneth Lewellen: perhaps we should just make sure that the ‘house rules’ are in place for non-citizen visitors
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: yes Gwyn do you have a link for this rules handy?
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: so I can place them in the box also
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: how would we deal with griefers, do people have ban power in here?
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: if not I´ll try to find them myself hehe
[12:17] Soro Dagostino: Perhaps a rule that CDS Citizens wear the lable?
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: I should have
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: um, the LRA and I have ban power.
[12:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe I do, Mik
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[12:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Though, I could be mistaken
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: normally I´m able to deal with griefers without banning them also
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: I grew up at the mainland lol
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: lol, right lilith
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: so next Item …
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: I hear that’s a bad part of the grid
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: and concerns or aditions to the agenda
[12:19] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand.
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: changes not concerns
[12:19] Fern Leissa: What happened to citizens concerns??
[12:19] Arria Perreault: I had one. I told you
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: after the aproval of agenda fern
[12:19] Fern Leissa: sorry ok
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: as always
[12:19] Rosie Gray is wondering what A – Oat Gwyn could possibly mean
[12:20] Fern Leissa: Oath
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: swearing Gwyn in
[12:20] Pip Torok: oath, perhaps? …
[12:20] Rosie Gray: lol
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: bare with my english this agenda was made in a hurry
[12:20] Fern Leissa: shes been oated already
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt wonders if Gwyn is raising horses and needed oats.
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: lol
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: lol
[12:20] Beathan Vale: A grain primary fed to horses, but which, in Scotland, sustains the people?
[12:20] Rosie Gray: sorry for teasing
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: The newest product of the CDS: Gwyn-Oats
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: as nobody seems to have changes we can come to citizens next
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: (gwyn would become rich with selling horse food)
[12:21] Pip Torok: nods
[12:21] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand.
[12:21] Gwyneth Lewellen: (hah Lil)
[12:21] Arria Perreault raises hands too
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: I think Arria was first, Sorro next
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: (and we thought the bunnies were trouble)
[12:21] Fern Leissa: lol
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: (haha)
[12:22] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:22] Arria Perreault: I have a concern concerning the announcement of the RA.
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: I understand Arria and appologize
[12:23] Arria Perreault: This meeting was announced shortly before through a notice group. No agenda was released.
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: I just came back from a vacation and had to catch up with all the work
[12:23] Arria Perreault: I think it’s a good idea to publish this meeting in SL-Events. But …
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: the upcomming meetings will be every second unday at noon and I´ll post the agenda in time
[12:24] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[12:24] Arria Perreault: for people who stay in contact with CDS through the Web, it is important to announce the RA meeting in the forum and in the Event Calendar.
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: yes I agree with you and will do that in fture
[12:24] Arria Perreault: It is not acceptable to use only in-world communication tools
[12:25] Arria Perreault: we also have a Facebook page and a Twittwer
[12:25] Soro Dagostino: Ugh!
[12:25] Arria Perreault: done
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: as the meetings are every second sunday maybe the exec can post them in facebook and twitter
[12:26] Pip Torok realises how strategic the Forum has become …
[12:26] Gwyneth Lewellen: The exec? No
[12:26] Gwyneth Lewellen: I mean…
[12:26] Gwyneth Lewellen: it’s a function of the RA hehe
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi: who has access to the CDS FB/twitter?
[12:26] Gwyneth Lewellen: we could delegate but…
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: well, ok but I don´t think I´ve twitter
[12:26] Gwyneth Lewellen likes a certain amount of independence
[12:27] Arria Perreault: you have a RA Archivist
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: What you’re saying Gwyn is that you have the power to both, so you best do it? ツ
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: well, I think we all agree with Aria that the meetings should be postet
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: so I´ll find a way to do it
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Or am I wrong in my presumption that it wasn’t you who founded those two
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Agreed, yes.
[12:28] Gwyneth Lewellen: I have? hehe no
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh, then I must be wrong
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: I saw there are still townhall meetings scheduled
[12:29] Gwyneth Lewellen: hehe yes, Lil
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: do we still want to hold them?
[12:29] Gwyneth Lewellen: I’d love to!
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: if not we should remove those entries
[12:29] Lilith Ivory /me
[12:29] Lilith Ivory notes that Gwyn is going to hold townhall metings
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi just might show up, too
[12:30] Arria Perreault: the PIO should help you to have the access to every chanel
[12:30] Arria Perreault: channel
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: I see ty Arria
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Every channel?
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: I didn’t know Anna had powers to FB and Twitter…!
[12:31] Arria Perreault: she should have
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: She has on fb.
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Twitter not sure
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see
[12:31] Arria Perreault: She should have, Tor
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Really those have very few followers.
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: I´m sure Tor can manage it to give her that power
[12:32] Arria Perreault: if not, I can help
[12:32] Pip Torok: she has the right of access to fb surely
[12:32] Arria Perreault: She admin in FB
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I will check. In fact I might not have rights in Twitter.
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, ok
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: can we come to Soros concern now?
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[12:33] Soro Dagostino: Just a note about the Forum.
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: yes?
[12:33] Soro Dagostino: You all may be asked to register again.
[12:33] Soro Dagostino: We have had lots of spam.
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Indeed, I was just asked to regregister.
[12:34] Rosie Gray makes a note
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: will that affect our previous posts?
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Will this re-registering delete our accounts?
[12:34] Pip Torok: how soon do you expect us to reregister, Soro?
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: No, it didn’t for me.
[12:35] Soro Dagostino: You may find it not necessary — just a warning that our effort to clear spam is ongoing.
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Inded
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Really you just have to re-log, and your password is chanllenged
[12:35] Gwyneth Lewellen: Hm! yes, although it’s very painful
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: ok, but registration required admin approval
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Were you delegated administrator/moderator powers on the forum, too, Soro?
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: I know that you said that was an issue
[12:35] Soro Dagostino: As a member of the SC.
[12:35] Gwyneth Lewellen: btw, I’ve been in touch with some organisations which design anti-spam things for forums… but strangely enough their emails bounce back!!
[12:36] Gwyneth Lewellen: ah, and Soro’s status should have been fixed by Aliasi
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, how odd
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, good, good.
[12:36] Soro Dagostino: It was Gwyn
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: seems they are well protected against spam
[12:36] Pip Torok has suspicions about “some organisation” …
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: any other citizens concerns?
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I have one
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: yes Tor?
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Just want to clarify that posting the RA meeting to the SL Event calendar is only to focus on non-citizens and advertise us as a democracy.
[12:38] Fern Leissa: raises hand
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: that is all
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: yes Fern?
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Paul
[12:38] Fern Leissa: I like Arria’s idea about putting our meetings on the SL calendar
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: you don´t have to raise the hand every time I think btw
[12:39] Fern Leissa: Don’t know if that needs ra approval or not. But I like the idea
[12:39] Rosie Gray: I like the idea too
[12:39] Pip Torok: Tor, why does there need to be such a clarification?
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, I do as well.
[12:39] Arria Perreault: no, it doesn’t need RA approval. we always did in the past
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: I think we agreed with that idea already
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: it IS a good idea
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip, In no way was it intended to replace the traditional modes of communication with citizens.
[12:40] Fern Leissa: Not just the CDS calendar the SL…. right?
[12:40] Fern Leissa: For non-citizens info
[12:40] Pip Torok: ok …
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: As Arria points out, we have group notices and the forum as well as the twiter and fb accts. Although, I would caution about twitter and fb, they have few followers.
[12:41] Arria Perreault: and a google event calendar
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: won´t harm anybody to have it there also
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: so right the google calendar.
[12:41] Arria Perreault: which is accessible through the portal
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: soare there any more concerns or can we come to Tors budget?
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would take that as a negative
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: we had a lot of time to read it till now
[12:43] Pip Torok: me too …
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: so can I have a motion to vote about it now?
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: well, I did have a queston about it
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: sure Mikelo
[12:45] Arria Perreault raises hand (after RA members of course)
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: the 12th RA ha 4 admin people, but the proposed budget has 7, why the change?
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: and what’s the difference between archivist and ra archivist?
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: The PIO was given an assistant…
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: do you want to answer?
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: that is one
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: I do believe that is one change
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: the other was created by the 13 RA the commerce coordinator
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: the content archivist is actually an SC appointment.
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: there were two PIOs for a while, way back
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: and the RA archivist is an RA appointment
[12:48] Callipygian Christensen: (archivist is supposed to hold builds etc that belong to CDS, RA archivist is aquisition and maintenance of RA records)
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: and btw, the caretaker postion became vacant as Lilith resigned.
[12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: Is the PIO a change?
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t see why the commerce coordinator should be paid
[12:49] Arria Perreault: (Tor, can you publish a list of appointed people?)
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: i will Arria
[12:50] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: any more questions from RA members?
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: commerce is not govt
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Arria your question?
[12:52] Arria Perreault: about the budget, yes
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[12:52] Arria Perreault: I have several
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: yes?
[12:53] Arria Perreault: The 2 regional committees will get each month 20’000 L$ (10’000 L$ each). This amount doesnt allow the organization of weekly events. It will allow only to have 2 concerts each month.
In the same time, there is an amount of 28’000 L$ for “Community and Music Events”. I guess that the Executive will manage this amount of money. It means that the Executive will have more money to organize events than the regional Committtees.
[12:53] Arria Perreault: Is it the intention of the Chancellor?
[12:53] Arria Perreault: I see also that we sponsor the Radio Riel Volksmusik. Can someone say what is it and why do we have to sponsor it? If it is advertising, is it efficient ?
[12:54] Arria Perreault: The Roman Regional Committee would like to organize a Festival in May named Floralia. Will this Festival be financed by the line “Major Events” ?
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: I echo that question of Arria’s concerning Floralia
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Radio Riel is 5000 L$ a month, 30’000 L$ for the whole term
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Well that was part of the past budgets. I left it in to cover additonal events or any cost overruns or support of planned events.
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: second, the Floralia would be a major event for the entire CDS.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Third, Radiorieal had a true cost of 10k per month for a premium sponsorship.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: the true cost was privately subsidized, I don’t want to subsidize it.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Current’y I have not subscribed as a sponsor pending the resolution of the budget
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: but the true cost is 10K per month
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: for that we will get recognition as a sposor and will be able to have some PSAs.
[12:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: PSAs?
[12:57] Arria Perreault: Can you explane what is exactly Radio riel and the advantage to sponsor it?
[12:57] Pip Torok: PSA’s?
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: public service annoucments
[12:57] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Wish btw were not done in the past although we paid for them
[12:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: How odd.
[12:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Will you utilise that resource, then?
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me point out her again, I have not renewed the sponsorship pending resolution of the budget
[12:58] Gwyneth Lewellen: brb
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: I did increase the amout to 10K once i learned that the price was 10K not 5K
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: so is it our turn to vote for renwing it or not?
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: i am open to dispensing with it altogether.
[12:59] Lilith Ivory can live perfectly without german music
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: but I think it does give us a foothold in the larger SL community.
[12:59] Arria Perreault: I am sure we can find free radio stream
[12:59] Callipygian Christensen: (in effect ‘sponsorship’is = to advertising..but if htye didnt even provide *that* as agreed to, I’d suggest not bothering..and asking for them to do the PSA’s now at no charge..or refund the money)
[13:00] Pip Torok: its more than german music in volksmusik radioriel, lilith
[13:00] Rosie Gray: here here – what Calli said
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: good point Calie.
[13:00] Pip Torok: … klezmer, e european folk etc
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: I suspect tho, they will feel that the PSA was always open to us.
[13:00] Soro Dagostino: What — no roman marches?
[13:00] Fern Leissa: yes if they didn’t provide the psa’s I ‘m in agreement with Calli
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: think they need our input to make Ads
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: well it isn’t that they would not provide it.
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Iwill ask for a deal
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: seems they also did not get a logo from us.
[13:01] Arria Perreault: is it really efficient as marketing?
[13:01] Fern Leissa: What sort of deal Tor?
[13:01] Rosie Gray: sounds like they didn’t follow up either
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Well perhaps they can reduce the sponsorship fee.
[13:02] Callipygian Christensen: ah well.whoever originally made the contract may not have followed through, which puts no fault on the radio provider to some degree..but really, no reason to keep thring a large chunk of money at it unless we know it is reaching a *lot* of potential new citizens
[13:02] Fern Leissa: So you would suggest what budget amount for this?
[13:03] Lilith Ivory agrees with Calli
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: well i agree. I think it is fairly popular in steampunk circles.
[13:03] Arria Perreault: are we steampunk?
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: so perhaps it’s more of a caledon thing?
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: As I said, I have not yet agreed to keep it.
[13:04] Fern Leissa: I’m guessing we’re still not steampunk
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: no we aren’t steampunk.
[13:04] Fern Leissa:
[13:04] Pip Torok: no, but the channel has merits apart from its fans
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: but they are also a very involved group of people.
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: There is one relationship we share with Caledon: our governments.
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to listen to them a bit
[13:04] Arria Perreault: in the past, we also paid for in kiosk in Caledon before 11th term)
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: It isn’t a bad idea to stay in touch with those groups.
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: We may attract some who are attracted to democracy, rather that monarchy.
[13:05] Pip Torok is surprised at G’s statement
[13:05] Arria Perreault: it was rather expensive and I am not sure it was efficient
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, we both have government, Pip
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Only difference is that we’re democratic, no?
[13:05] Pip Torok: ah … i take back what I said!¬
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi understood caledon was not a democracy
[13:05] Callipygian Christensen: You can listen to the radio station without sponsoring – perhps that item on the budget can be put on hold for a later decision?
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: good idea, calli
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would agree with Calli
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: but we shoult vote about the budget with or without that Radio sponsorship imo
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: well we don’t have to sponsor it at all. It is one avenue of advertising us to a very involved group of ppl.
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: How many of us are familiar with this station, tor and pip?
[13:06] Pip Torok is happy to give the URL of radioreal’s volkmusik channel to any citizen
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: but we can talk about this in the exec.
[13:07] Gwyneth Lewellen: riel’s been around for eons
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: How does it compare to say, NPR?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: not every initiative is sponsored by CDS
[13:07] Pip Torok: yes but not the volksmusik stream
[13:07] Fern Leissa: I would suggest that it be removed from this budget and the exec study the real effectiveness of riel and report back next term
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, obviously NPR would have more listeners, Mik
[13:07] Arria Perreault: The Monastery got 0L$ until now
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: But NPR also costs more.
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: lol, I meant in style
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: well gee, we could check out NPR. But not sure how many of their listeners are SL residentes
[13:08] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: BTW, I was interviewed by Icon mag.
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: I’m trying to get an idea of what they’re about
[13:08] Fern Leissa: Actually NPR is in here I think
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: We can check them out.
[13:09] Arria Perreault: what is NPR?
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: National Public Radio
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: US Radio
[13:09] Mikelo Serevi: it’s a US thing, sry
[13:09] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:09] Pip Torok: important to stress that “volksmusik” is concerened with all folk and world music rather than german folk-music
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Great radio station
[13:09] Callipygian Christensen: Mikelo, Riel Radio runs multiple streams of specific genres and supports those streams by the NPR model of sponsorship in return for PSAa. They offer 24/7 music with, I think, occasional live DJed events incorporated
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker agrees with Tor and Calli
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, ok
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: right pip, the station does fit AM, NFS and even the roman sims rather well.
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: maybe we can leave this amount of money in the budget and call it advertisement instead of sponsoring radio Riel
[13:10] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi: nice
[13:10] Arria Perreault: in LA, I have set sometimes a nice and free greek stream
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: That doesn’t exactly make it transparent, no?
[13:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, at the Villa of Mysteries, Arria?
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Lil that would be fine with me
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: it does leave it rather open…
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: but Tor and we are free to decide how to deal with RR
[13:11] Callipygian Christensen: Guillaume..I thinkit does actually..and gives leeway to still spendi to advertise even if Radio Riel is not the place it is spent
[13:11] Arria Perreault: no, the whole sim. I have set it sometimes, after concerts
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: without having another delay on voting about the budget
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: I should point out that Advertising the CDS is an exec function.
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I agree, then
[13:12] Arria Perreault: yes, but you need that the RA aroves the budget …
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: we need to get this budget aproved sooner or later so Tor can sponsor the Event in LA imo
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: we can re-add this to the budget later?
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: his hands are kinda bound at the moment
[13:13] Arria Perreault: which Event?
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Well according to the law, I think you have to pass on a budget or this is it as submitted.
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: the major event you talked about
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Floralia?
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no problem in adding/changing the budget i guess…
[13:13] Arria Perreault: Tor, I have put these remarks in the forum and you did not ansmwered them …
[13:14] Arria Perreault: there is also the amount for the Regional Committees which is rather small
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Florialia is being planned as a major event.
[13:14] Arria Perreault: yes, I am happy for that ㋡
[13:14] Mikelo Serevi: the regional committee budgets have shrunk?
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: The amounts for the committies is fine, imo.
[13:14] Arria Perreault: with your budget, we can’t organize weekly events
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: no they haven’t
[13:15] Arria Perreault: 10’000 L$ a month
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: do those events bring new citizens btw?
[13:15] Arria Perreault: (nd now the sims are very sleepy)
[13:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Regardless of them bringing new citizens, they’re intrumental to this community imo
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s really not much… may I just ask if the reason behind the cutting is some degree of pessimism towards the number of people that these events usually attract?
[13:15] Pip Torok: brb
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well 10K a month seems ok. And we can suplement it from the general music/event outlay.
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: well, they are for current citizens too
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: well, past events have not demonstrated any addition to our citiznery.
[13:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Mik
[13:16] Arria Perreault: Lilith, we will know that with the time. The advantages of these events is that we can talk directly with people who come
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: also, they were too focused on only two groups.
[13:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I think it’s important for all of us to interact…
[13:16] Arria Perreault: we can give them informations about CDS
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: also, there is an issue with hosting events the citiiznes want to attend
[13:17] Arria Perreault: and right, they were an opportunity to meet for citizen
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: we had no interest from only the two groups of followers brought into CDS.
[13:17] Arria Perreault: Tor, I agreed that we can have mmore artists
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:18] Arria Perreault: even if it gives more work for the organization
[13:18] Tor Karlsvalt: well, don’t put past experience out as a successs, it wasn
[13:18] Tor Karlsvalt: wasn’t
[13:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: What are you suggesting we alter to this budget, then, Arria?
[13:18] Arria Perreault: we always got a good attendance
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: you mean only as outreach?
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, but few new members of the groups or parcels sold.
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: if any
[13:19] Arria Perreault: I suggest that the regional committees have a bigger part of the event budget and the executive a smaller one
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we had the same followers in here week after week
[13:19] Arria Perreault: now 10’000 L$ / 28’000 L$
[13:19] Guillaume Mistwalker: These events are more important than attracting new citizens, though, Tor, they’re also about all of the CDS citizens imo
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Keep in mind we might be experiencing falling revenue
[13:20] Arria Perreault: we are more active and we have a direct interest that the sims have an animation
[13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like close control
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s the rgument for financial sustainability….
[13:20] Callipygian Christensen: Guillaume, attendance at events by citizens is really poor in general, if you look at number attending anything vs actual number of citizens
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* I cannot disagree with that, although I’m always a bit reluctant to cut costs so much that it’s not *fun* anymore to be in the CDS!
[13:20] Pip Torok: back …
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Calli…
[13:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, for those who are active in our affairs, Calli?
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pip
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve always had fun at events
[13:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Mik
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I think citizen came
[13:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: And if we interact more a community, won’t that also appeal to newer people, too?
[13:21] Arria Perreault: not only fans or people from outside
[13:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: *more as a
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it will Guill
[13:22] Arria Perreault: now there is no point in the week where we are sure to meet someone in CDS
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: the idea is we keep the people we have, and then reach out
[13:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: But we’ve been losing people.
[13:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: We need to focus on the people we have.
[13:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: Right now, we’re not
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: or people have cut back on their parcels.
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: LA now is probably in the red.
[13:22] Arria Perreault: we can ask people for the kind of music they want to have
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: it was close when I looked at over a month ago.
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Since then several lots have been abandoned.
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve increased holding myself
[13:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: Maybe we should lower the parcel prices there, a bit? To attract more people?
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: last time Mikelo had the idea to have more events other than concerts
[13:23] Arria Perreault: that’s why we need more energy ㋡
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: to atract people interested in politics
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh i will lower parcel prices had have.
[13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, a stupid question that I haven’t bothered to ask before — do the costs for web hosting include ads on other sites?
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ads, sponsorship, etc
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: web hosting is separate.
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, so it’s *only* hosting itself.
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ads, just L$100/month. Hmm. where are you suggesting to place ads then?
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘big’ SL sites ask for something like L$5k/week
[13:25] Arria Perreault: (of course, we can have other attractions than concerts)
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (but those have often dozens of thousands of monthly visitors)
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that is L$1k/month, sorry
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh LL has banner ads now in search. Thought I would check that out.
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Search and SL Marketplace then?
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or just Search?
[13:26] Guillaume Mistwalker nods, “SLM would be good, too”
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I think either.
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: both would be good.
[13:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… does anyone have experience running ads on those?
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[13:26] Arria Perreault: on search, I have
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: but hey, got to try.
[13:27] Arria Perreault: it works very well
[13:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Inded.
[13:27] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Arria… even for L$1000?
[13:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: *-eed.
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: well this isn’t the usualy ad were you check, show in search
[13:27] Arria Perreault: I use it for the Monastery
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: usual
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: where
[13:27] Arria Perreault: no, but you have to renew each week
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My own experience was… if it’s just having an ad for having an ad’s sake, it’s worthless to spend a lot: just L$50/bi-weekly is enough to *have* a searchable ad.
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *weekly
[13:27] Fern Leissa: you do?
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we want the ad to be displayed at the *top* of search, well… then US$1000 is more likely to provide that hehe
[13:28] Arria Perreault: if we advertise several places fr 100L$, we reach 1000 L$ quickly
[13:28] Fern Leissa: have to renew each week?
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the adds pop up ins search with out being searched for.
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, if you’re not using common words/tags
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I see your point, Arria
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s not ONE ad… it’s actually 10 ads
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand now!
[13:29] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, I believe Gwyn and the others are talking about ads on websites like marketplace, New world notes, whereas you are talking the ‘classifieds’ ads in the land tabs
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should work
[13:29] Arria Perreault: I think it’s a good investment
[13:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: I do believe that the Chancellor can rightfully sort this out… and if I may point out, we’ve spent the last hour or so on a topic that was meant to originally take 20 minutes…
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I was thinking about those too, Calli — additionally
[13:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I think you are right Cali.
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry, Guillaume — you’re right too
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Gui
[13:30] Guillaume Mistwalker chuckles
[13:30] Arria Perreault: I think we should be present in the Marketplace too and even in Google ads
[13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hey, let’s give it a try We can always see the results in 5 months and adjust…
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: right
[13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: i so totally agree, Arria .
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: yes, me too
[13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps next term then
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I need more money for advertising, I will come to you for an amendment.
[13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins and nods
[13:31] Guillaume Mistwalker will be right back.
[13:31] Fern Leissa: Ok. Then dito for radio riel. Let’s do 6 mos and see if it is actually effective to advertise there
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: It seemed to me this was rather uncharted territorry.
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Fern
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:31] Arria Perreault: Tor, we have a lot of money in reserve and you can make a program for such ads on the web. I will support you as citizen ㋡
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I think we can attract people directly from the web, ot only in SL
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I need to point out also, that for classified ads in search associated with the land, most of the public land is owned by Rudeen, who must then place ads.
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I had such cases in the Monastery
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point is… we haven’t done much in this area before, CDS-wide…. if we fail to approve the little money on ads we have now… we’ll never do it at all. So, sure, let’s run this experiment for a term, and if we have success, we can expand he budget next term with a larger budget
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Web is good
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: but I have some issues with the web.
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes?
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: We need to target SL residents.
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you Gwyn
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Google AdSense allows you that…
[13:33] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, I think that Tor has the possibility to come here with a special programm, like to get a new sim
[13:33] Pip Torok: which SL residents, Tor?
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and so does facebook
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: FB and twitter sort of requires ppl to connect their RL accts to us.
[13:33] Arria Perreault: it will be an extraordinary expense that the RA can vote
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Arria!!
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a good pretext for some more aggressive ads, yes
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: true,
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree with Gwyn; back
[13:34] Arria Perreault: Tor, you should maybe make a workgroup for that
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: We could do that. I will consult with anna on that.
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the mean time, can we vote on the budget? hehe
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: yes Gwyn!
[13:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: And yes, I would agree about the sims, Gwyn
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[13:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: And yes, please! can we?
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: well, my question about the extra admins wasn’t answered really
[13:35] Pip Torok hopes that the emphasis will be on SL residents with a positive commitment to upholding democracy
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: I think I need a motion and a second to vote about it
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: right?
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha good point, Mikelo — can we have an answer on that?
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: before we move to vote?
[13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: extra admins, which ones are those.
[13:35] Lilith Ivory sighs hehe
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: it seems the larger number was set up for the larger CDS/AA, which no longer applies
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, Tor said he would provide us with a list of the new admins
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: paid commerce coordinator, extra archivist
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: the only admins added were an asst PIO and Commerce.
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Caretaker”
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: no there is not extra achivist.
[13:36] Fern Leissa: But… we clearly are concerned about advertising… and PIO positions have that as their main agenda
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: the 12th RA had 4, this budget has 7
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, we do, Fern
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8zbEv … YTQ2&hl=en
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: trevor’s handy comparison
[13:37] Fern Leissa: Not sure we don’t need them and the amount we pay them is relatively small for the amount of time they seem to put in
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: no only five
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises if she missed the job descriptions of the new members of the civil service on the forums and asks for a linky to them
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only 5? I see 7 with the archivists
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: The only new one is the Commerce Coordinator
[13:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see only five, yes
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: oh but those aren’t in my office.
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker shouts: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key … pqMD#gid=0
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:38] Fern Leissa: hehe. We hear you lol
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Woops, pardon my shouting ツ
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: i pointed out, the SC appoints the content achivist and the RA appoints the RA archives
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but we still pay them out of our budget
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: but there was no paid content archivist before
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ohter than that the only new one is the commerce coordinator.
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yes there was.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What does the Caretaker do?
[13:39] Callipygian Christensen: Mikelo..there has been for a very long time
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Of course one can argue why we need it.
[13:39] Pip Torok: clear up rubbish, gwyn
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I am just signing the checks.
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: it´s a way old office
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I see — the old ‘Janitor+ role
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok ok
[13:39] Pip Torok: take down outofdate notices etc
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: btw, caretaker is open
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[13:39] Mikelo Serevi: actually, my mistake, I see it in teh 9th budget
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it ihas been part of CDS from days of old.
[13:40] Arria Perreault: before 12th term, the RA Archivist was not paid
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: although, I must say that if you wnat anything there is no inventroy.
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: inventory.
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I guess that then we’re just talking about a new person; and it shows an emphasis on commerce… I cannot disagree with that….
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: I knew the slot existed, since some items were deleted maliciously
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: yes gwyn
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right… I’m fine then
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shall we move to vote, Mme LRA?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: and about the weekly events? do we let the money for reg committes so in the budget? I just want to say that you wont lose the control: Reg committees are also democratic ㋡
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn moves that we vote to approve the budget
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: any second ?
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I should point out, I think the content archivist is supposed to be an alt.
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: PLEEAAAZE
[13:41] Pip Torok: second
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (agreed, Tor, it was meant to be an alt=
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: so all agreeing with the budget say aye please
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: an alt for storage, yes
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I don’t know if that was ever done.
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, even though I have some qualms; but it’s better to have a bad budget than no budget at all lol
[13:42] Pip Torok: aye
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: and prolly we need to have some inventory of stuff.
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: i will shut up
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:42] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: ok gwyn
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: the budget is aproved for now as it seems
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not happy that no changes were allowed
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we can move to *fix* it…. hehe
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: why bother loking at it?
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: right
[13:44] Arria Perreault: me too
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mikelo, we could always have voted against it and force the Chancellor to redraw a new budget…
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: well goNaturally we will always have things come up.
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: we could have voted for changes if there had been any proposals
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: um, actually Mik I tink you had to approve it or change it now.
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: well there will be changes later anyway
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: I move we increase the regional budget as per arria’s suggestion
[13:45] Arria Perreault: I have put my questions and remarks on the forum long time ago. So I am sorry that no one answered or react
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: To what amount?
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: What amount for the reg/chanc, Mik?
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: isn´t that to late for the moment?
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can always amend things, Lilith
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: well ok
[13:46] Pip Torok: yes lilith
[13:46] Lilith Ivory is a LRA noob hehe
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Mikelo, I just wish to make sure we know the amount (L$28k I believe?)
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Or, Arria, what amount are you suggesting we amend that amount to?
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: All do respect to anyone, but the RA had 30 days to approve or amend the budget.
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: but why vote for something if we want to change it one minute later?
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha!
[13:47] Mikelo Serevi: the vote was kind of pushed past objections
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I can’t read the law as written, seems somethng is wrong with the protal
[13:47] Arria Perreault: my suggestion was to take 20’000 L$ from the position Music and Community Events
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s a good philosophic question, Lil
[13:48] Fern Leissa: I agree. Let’s get going. I miss the events in LA but they won’t happen without a budget
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: uhm … talking about the budget at least for one hour now
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:48] Arria Perreault: 40’000 L$ for both regiional committees (20’000 L$ each)
[13:48] Fern Leissa: We can talk about changes later in the term if necessary
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: and leave 8Lk for the chancellor?
[13:48] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:48] Mikelo Serevi: I second
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: The budget law is not posted to the portal BTW.
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: second what?
[13:49] Arria Perreault: The regional committees were set for that
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Naturally, I will make money available to the commissions if they ask.
[13:49] Fern Leissa:
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: well, it was more of a suggestion…
[13:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: I … third?
[13:49] Rosie Gray quietly leaves as she can’t spend any more time here
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn considers firing the RA Archivist if they don’t keep the laws updated on the portal!
[13:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye Rosie ツ
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Keep in mind everyone, LA is probably loosing money.
[13:49] Fern Leissa: Bye Rosie
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: bye rosie
[13:49] Pip Torok: bye Rosie
[13:49] Arria Perreault: bye Rosie
[13:50] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: We have more land in CN vacant as well.
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: I don´t think we should change the budget now in a hurry
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, would it not make sense to pass money to the respected reg. committee?
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: it’s not hurried
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s been on discussion on the forums for a month I think
[13:50] Arria Perreault: I don’t ask for more money. it’s only a transfer
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: a change five minutes after we aproved is is no hurry?
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hardly ‘hurried’
[13:50] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand and waves it
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: We do have lots of money in the bank, but note that the current budget isn’t putting much of anything toward the reserve.
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Lil
[13:50] Fern Leissa: I think we passed the budget. Right?
[13:51] Mikelo Serevi: the holidays ground everything to a halt
[13:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: an hour and a half on a 20 minute issue is a hurry?
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, we did. This is an amendment to the budget, Fern
[13:51] Fern Leissa: sorry
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a proposed amendment; moved & seconded
[13:51] Arria Perreault: we are not talking about increasing the money,
[13:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: ok…Ill just talk…
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: and don´t forget the 30 days we had to think about it before
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[13:51] Arria Perreault: it’s only a transfert from a post to another
[13:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, Calli?
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: its unforntunate Tor didnt respond to Arria’s questions in the forum..but I also saw none of this last hours debate there..
[13:52] Mikelo Serevi: I’ll concede my issue if we can change this part
[13:52] Callipygian Christensen: and rrankly, with all due respect Arria..you are behaving as if you have a seat in the Ra..
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, it’s always easier to vote on something and amend later when there is no consensus on the first place; then, if the amendment vote fails, we can always fall back to what has been approved
[13:52] Guillaume Mistwalker whispers: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179
[13:53] Arria Perreault: (it’s a long tradition in CDS, Calli…)
[13:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: I do agree with Arria’s concern.
[13:53] Callipygian Christensen: and this ‘we didnt put forward a motion before th evote but rush to do it affter’..well..Tor is the *elected* Chancellor..there is some level of faith in that that should be given him to act well..and not trying to tear his budget apart a seocnd after passing it would be a good start
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: I don´t mind transfering the money to the regional commitees but I dislike the fact nobody proposed it in time
[13:53] Arria Perreault: Calli, le tthe RA act
[13:53] Callipygian Christensen: he’s hears your concerns..youve passedhis budget..wy not let him go be the Chancellor and address your conerns..and get on with the rest of this meeting?
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe point made, Calli Now let’s vote!
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: I think an amendment can be made at any time
[13:54] Arria Perreault: they have the right to listen citizen and to make a motion
[13:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: We can amend it.
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: can I hear for what we vote exactly please
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course it can although it’s also the LRA’s prerrogative not to accept it hehe
[13:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Mik.
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: That is a good question, can the RA amend a budget after it is passed.
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Amending the amount from 20 reg. com. / 28 events to 40 reg. com. / 8 events
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously we did it all the time in the past, Tor
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I point out again here that the budget law is not posted to the portal
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There’s a very good precedent for that
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, how else would we be able to compensate for issues that arise?
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: was that your proposal, arria?
[13:55] Pip Torok: can I hear for what we vote exactly please.. explicitly?
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: The Chancellor submits the budget and the RA approves or asks for an amendment and as 30 days to do all of that.
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Amending the amount from 20 reg. com. / 28 events to 40 reg. com. / 8 events
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As Gui wrote: “Amending the amount from 20 reg. com. / 28 events to 40 reg. com. / 8 events”
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: maybe a clear motion would be helpful
[13:56] Arria Perreault: Community and Music Events 8000 L$ (instead of 28’000 L$)
[13:56] Arria Perreault: Regional Comm : 40’000 L$ (instead of 20’00 L$)
[13:56] Arria Perreault: (monthly)
[13:56] Pip Torok agrees with Lilith
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: I motion the amendment.
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… Tor, you might be right, hmm — can you point us to a reference to that?
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: can a have a clear motion please?
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: No Gywn, the law is not posted.
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Grr
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I have said that about three times already
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: and in the past too
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So how do you know it?
[13:57] Pip Torok: no .. its not yet clear as a motion …
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Disregard that question
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s have the SC sort it out, then
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: it was the law, I voted on it.
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: I´ll have to look for it also
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: I willl have to dig it up in the transcripts.
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, and my memory is not good enough
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: nor is mine
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t worry, Tor; we have the SC to worry about it
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: they might find the reference and just veto the amendment
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: but I know there was a sunset on the time allowed for the RA to amend/challenge a budget
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the mean time, we *do* have a motion to amend the budget
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: can´t we just leave the budget as it is for today and vote for changes after we did that research?
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact even this day might be past the sunset
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: only if Mikelo is willing to withdraw the motion, Lil
[13:59] Pip Torok: will someone please put the complete motion?
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: I still have no clear motion
[13:59] Arria Perreault: My proposal:
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Pip
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my…. for the 6th time then,
[13:59] Arria Perreault: The budget has the following modification:
Community and Music Events 8000 L$ (instead of 28’000 L$)
Regional Comm : 40’000 L$ (instead of 20’00 L$)
(monthly)
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: [13:56] Arria Perreault: Community and Music Events 8000 L$ (instead of 28’000 L$)
[13:56] Arria Perreault: Regional Comm : 40’000 L$ (instead of 20’00 L$)
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, Arria.
[13:59] Mikelo Serevi:
[13:59] Arria Perreault: yw
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: now if I could have Arrias motion from a RA member please
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s Mikelo’s motion actually
[14:00] You decline Amaretto Breedable Horse LM’s from A group member named Cloey Dawner.
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: Quite so, hang on
[14:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, and seconded.
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even though citizens are fully allowed to put their own motions too.
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: please ! we can´t vote for motions made by a citizen
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: right?
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: I propose we amend the budget as follows:
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we most certainly can
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: oh ok than
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: ok, so I can second arria’s proposal
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: I guess we had seconds for that already
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re a very open democracy, Lil the only difference between a citizen and a RA member is that a RA member is allowed to *vote* on motions.
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: I second the motion.
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: ok sorry for not realizing that
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok.
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker sighs
[14:02] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: ok so all in favour for the modifikations say aye please
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: hate to get all legalistic on everyone.
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3132&p=16578&hilit=budget#p16574
[14:02] Fern Leissa: nay
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:02] Pip Torok: nay
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: nay
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shame.
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me say I have no problem with bowing to the wishes of the RA. B
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: dang. Tor is obviously right lol
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh well! shall we move on?
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: 3 aye, 3 nay and Cindy didn´t ask for 7 day vote as far as I know
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: of course I am, cuz I pointed it out.
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: ok guys, we are here for two hours now
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Now I could be a real pain and just say I will take all of this in advisement.
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: We we haven’t gotten to the big 4th issue..
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: but I will accept it.
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: want us to rush through the rest of the agenda or coming to the end slowly?
[14:05] Arria Perreault: the RA should say what she wants as animation in CDS. Now we are a sleeping country
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn will have to be afk for about 20 mins now but is fine to continue if we wish
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: But RA and the achivist need to post the laws timely to avoid confusion.
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Cheers, Tor.
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker will be right back.
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: and I will
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: do we want to do overtime?
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Cuz frankly I feel I am withing the law to say that the RA waisted two hours for nothing.
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: within
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry for my bad typing.
[14:06] Mikelo Serevi: we did vote to extend, didn’t we?
[14:07] Arria Perreault: we would have won a lot of time if you had answered my post in the forum
[14:07] Mikelo Serevi: I mean the budget time
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: you aren’t the RA Arria
[14:07] Fern Leissa: No. That I don’t agree with. We had some important discussion about priorities
[14:07] Arria Perreault: no, but I am a citizen
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: yes just want to know what to do with the rest of the agenda
[14:07] Arria Perreault: and we are a democracy
[14:07] Mikelo Serevi: any citizen can bring up objections
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: the RA needs to act not you.
[14:07] Arria Perreault: I can bring my issues here
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: you can of course.
[14:07] Arria Perreault: that’s what I did
[14:08] Arria Perreault: you did not your job, as you did not answered in the forum
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: right, but under the law, the RA had 30 days to act.
[14:08] Pip Torok: I propose we go thry items IV A and B then adjourn
[14:08] Arria Perreault: then you have improved your proposal and we would have avoid all this
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Look I said I will let you spend all the money you want.
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: but we extended the 13th budget
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: no nothing wrong with my proposal
[14:09] Arria Perreault: now I hope you will use these 28’000 L$ to bring some animations in thee dead and deserted sims
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: except you don’t like it.
[14:09] Mikelo Serevi: ok, Pip, good idea
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: cuz you want to sped lots on events that few CDSs care about
[14:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Riiighhttt. I agree with Pip.
[14:09] Pip Torok: a second?
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: good I see that as second
[14:09] Arria Perreault: I don’t like that almost nothing is happening in CDS comparing to last term
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: Fern your report about the covenant commision please
[14:10] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, Tor..I beieve madame LRA is trying to go on wiht the business of the RA
[14:10] Fern Leissa: Sure. Very brief as nothing has happened yet
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: ty Calli
[14:10] Arria Perreault: I don’t interpret this so, Tor
[14:10] Arria Perreault: they want that YOU organize these events
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: when are you going to schedule your first meeting fern?
[14:10] Fern Leissa: I have two citizens meeting scheduled for Jan 17 @ 2 pm slt
[14:10] Fern Leissa: and Jan 22 at 10 am slt
[14:10] Mikelo Serevi: There’s a current copy of the proposed covenant in the forum, fern?
[14:10] Arria Perreault: they did not took money away
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: I think there should be at least one between the RA meetings
[14:11] Fern Leissa: I plan to discuss only the general CDS covenants at these meetings,
[14:11] Fern Leissa: then follow-up with more meetings with the individual sims about specific covenants
[14:11] Fern Leissa: Done
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi: what other covenants are there?
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: thank you Fern
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: fern?
[14:11] Pip Torok: will these meetings cover the principle of a building Advisory Committee fern?
[14:12] Fern Leissa: Mikelo the covenants are not on the forum
[14:12] Pip Torok: i.e. whether the principle is desirable?
[14:12] Fern Leissa: I could post them though np
[14:12] Callipygian Christensen: RL calls..good day everyone
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: cu cali
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye, Cali.
[14:12] Arria Perreault: bye Calli
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: calli
[14:13] Pip Torok: bye Calli
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: *Calli.
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: think the commision meetings are a good place to discuss this
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: bye Calli
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: Fern will report us at the next meeting
[14:13] Mikelo Serevi: I thought wewere going to discuss whether commissions were worth extending?
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, which means I hope to be there tomorrow, Fern ツ
[14:13] Fern Leissa: The purpose of the meetings is to see what citizens want, including how they want to address rewriting
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: we votet for the covenant commision already
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: and if we had time left he would have votet about the others
[14:14] Pip Torok: we discussed that at the last meeting, Mikelo
[14:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, we did
[14:14] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: ok next next point
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: summary Commerce commision
[14:15] Pip Torok: I don’t think fern answered my question …
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: Fern?
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: phone
[14:15] Fern Leissa: Sorry Pip… I think the answer is I don’t know until I talk with the citizens
[14:15] Pip Torok: ok …
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: as you might know I was the chair of this commision last term
[14:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: (Hi Trebor)
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: what we did was to get direct TP in Neufreistadt and to create the office of the Commerce Coordinator
[14:16] Arria Perreault: Hi Trebor
[14:16] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi all
[14:16] Pip Torok: hi Trebor
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: there were some pending ideas but as we have this office now it´s mostly the job of the CC to realize it
[14:17] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: if we continue this commision it´s mostly to give the CC input and to stay in closer touch with the executive
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: if we want to continue that commision I´d need a RA member willing to chair those meetings
[14:18] You decline Patron Auction House from A group member named Carls Fitzpatrick.
[14:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Would you be open to doing it, Lili?
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: as I don´t think I´m allowed to do that as LRA
[14:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, nevermind, then.
[14:19] Lilith Ivory: anybody who wants to chair this commision?
[14:19] Fern Leissa: I think I want to suggest that we do not currently need this commission
[14:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Which commission is it Lillith?
[14:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Sorry I arrived very late
[14:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: Commerce, Tr
[14:20] Lilith Ivory: Commerce commision
[14:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: *Trebor
[14:20] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[14:20] Lilith Ivory: the problem is it´s law to have a RA member as chair
[14:20] Lilith Ivory: so if we don´t find a volunteer it´s useless to vote if we want it to continue or not
[14:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:21] Trebor Warcliffe: maybe put it on the sideburner until next meeting?
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: voting about it would be the next step
[14:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, keep the populous in touch with the CC?
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: right
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: and hopefully the merchants
[14:21] Trebor Warcliffe: If i remember correctly Arria did some very good work on that commission last term
[14:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Maybe give the RA members a little time to review her work and see who wants to take the reins?
[14:22] Arria Perreault: I was not in Commerce Commission
[14:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Sorry
[14:22] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:22] Trebor Warcliffe: Who ever it was I do remember they were quite active
[14:22] Arria Perreault: and i am not a RA member anymore
[14:22] Mikelo Serevi: well, is the commission necessary?
[14:22] Mikelo Serevi: fern says no
[14:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes and no
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: we can move the discussion about commissions to next time
[14:23] Arria Perreault: (in my humble opinion, the bill was passed. this commission is not necessary=
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi: I’m inclined to agreewith fern
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: lets talk about the comissions next time
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: we are here for 2 1/2 hours now
[14:23] Fern Leissa: ok :0
[14:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: I digress.
[14:24] Mikelo Serevi: partly my fault, sry
[14:24] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:24] Fern Leissa: Getting late for Europe
[14:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, not at all, Mik
[14:24] Mikelo Serevi: I just don’t believe in rubber stamping
[14:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, I do believe we move to adjoun, now?
[14:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: adjourn, even ツ
[14:24] Lilith Ivory: what do you think about having another meeting next sunday to keep up with work?
[14:24] Pip Torok: seconded
[14:24] Fern Leissa: Can we put it on the agenda for next time?
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree, Lili
[14:25] Mikelo Serevi: I’m ok with that, lilith
[14:25] Pip Torok: agree with madame Chair
[14:25] Lilith Ivory: good
[14:25] Trebor Warcliffe: Lillith may i ask a posting to the discussion board of the transcript in a day or so?
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: I take that as a motion, and passed ツ
[14:25] Lilith Ivory: yes I will do it right after
[14:25] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[14:25] Pip Torok: not yet passed Gui!
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: No?
[14:25] Mikelo Serevi: the adjourn, or the mext meeting?
[14:25] Pip Torok: no aye or nays …
[14:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Next meeting
[14:26] Lilith Ivory: think the next meeting has passed as I say aye also
[14:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: It sounded like a motion
[14:26] Pip Torok: ok! …. LRA has ruled!
[14:26] Mikelo Serevi: we all seem agreed anyway
[14:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: don´t think we have to be all formal with decisions like that
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: ok do we have any more RA member concerns?
[14:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Agreed, Lili… I’m sure the first dmeocratic discussions didn’t start out very formal ツ
[14:27] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Gah, democratic…!
[14:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: None for me
[14:27] Pip Torok: nor for me
[14:28] Fern Leissa: none for me
[14:28] Mikelo Serevi has talked enough for now
[14:28] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:28] Guillaume Mistwalker is getting hungry, even
[14:28] Pip Torok: and Pips getting thirsty
[14:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[14:28] Lilith Ivory: as we are in SL events now I placed questions from visitors/ friends of the CDS on the agenda
[14:28] Lilith Ivory: any questions?
[14:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: It seems we have one visitor, and he seems to have none ツ
[14:29] Pip Torok: I dont have any ….
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: hi Sebastian btw
[14:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Though, he can surely correct me
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: he is my neighbor at the mainland and got curious about us
[14:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see ツ
[14:30] Lilith Ivory: sorry you missed most of our meeting
[14:30] Mikelo Serevi: welcome, Sebastian
[14:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, welcome
[14:30] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh! I have one point
[14:31] Lilith Ivory: yes?
[14:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: I remember reading about the CDS on a wiki for Second Life
[14:31] Lilith Ivory: yes I remember that also
[14:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: As I’m an assistant to the PIO, I’ll be doing my best to bring that information up-to-date
[14:32] Lilith Ivory: good
[14:32] Lilith Ivory: any announcements?
[14:32] Arria Perreault: I have
[14:32] Trebor Warcliffe: As a citizen of the CDS I agree, good idea huillaume.
[14:32] Tor Karlsvalt: still on phone
[14:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: (Thank you, Trebor ツ )
[14:33] Arria Perreault: I have an announcement
[14:33] Lilith Ivory: yes Arria?
[14:33] Arria Perreault: I would like to give some information about the activities of the Monastery
[14:34] Arria Perreault: The Advent Calendar was a real success. We got almost 1000 unique visitors in 24 days.
[14:34] Trebor Warcliffe: WOW thats excellent
[14:34] Arria Perreault: Many people have asked for missed doors
[14:34] Mikelo Serevi: nice
[14:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: (It was a success for my art collection as well!)
[14:34] Fern Leissa: That is great
[14:35] Arria Perreault: we have opened an exhibition today presenting some painting from a selection of painters who were in the Calendar. The focus is on the representation of women.
[14:35] Pip Torok: 1000 visitors?! … thats advertising!
[14:35] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[14:36] Arria Perreault: This exhibition will be open til 12 February
[14:36] Pip Torok: btw i visited it … I can recommend it
[14:36] Fern Leissa:
[14:36] Mikelo Serevi makes plans to stop by
[14:36] Trebor Warcliffe: Will be visiting it before tomorrow morning myself
[14:36] Arria Perreault: and on 14th February, we will open the tradtion exhibition on a theme related to LOVE ㋡
[14:36] Mikelo Serevi: but of course
[14:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: ツ
[14:37] Guillaume Mistwalker marks his calendar
[14:37] Arria Perreault: I can release the theme: we will present famous lovers couples from the mythology, litterature and history
[14:37] Lilith Ivory: I wonder if we should have LM givers to all our events here and at central places
[14:38] Arria Perreault: and we are working on other projects ㋡
[14:38] Fern Leissa: Thanks Arria. That’s great for traffic, plus sounds interesting for us
[14:38] Arria Perreault: my modest contribution to our community …
[14:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed ツ
[14:38] Lilith Ivory: thanks Arria
[14:39] Mikelo Serevi: the monastery is part of why I settled in CDS
[14:39] Fern Leissa:
[14:39] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[14:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: Gah, the democracy and the government for me!
[14:39] Lilith Ivory: Tor are you back from RL?
[14:39] Mikelo Serevi: yes, but i found it by searching for “democracy”
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[14:39] Lilith Ivory: and do you have announcements?
[14:39] Mikelo Serevi:
[14:39] Lilith Ivory: ah ok
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: on yhe phone
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: almost
[14:40] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:40] Tor Karlsvalt: sory all a friend had trouble with her computer.
[14:40] Fern Leissa: Ah… now I know who to call lol
[14:40] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[14:40] Pip Torok: on a Sunday afternoon, yet!
[14:41] Trebor Warcliffe: This may have been answered earlier but what is going on with the Covenant Commision?
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria the monastery sim had 1000 visitors to the sim?
[14:41] Mikelo Serevi: meeting this week
[14:41] Tor Karlsvalt: or was that hits for the Advent Calendar online.
[14:41] Trebor Warcliffe: date/time please
[14:41] Pip Torok: no meetings held yet trebor … but dates for them announced … see transcript
[14:41] Lilith Ivory: Tor do you have any announcements?
[14:41] Trebor Warcliffe: tu
[14:42] Lilith Ivory: or should we adjourn?
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Well, everyone should note that we have a scucribomatic on each sim
[14:42] Pip Torok: lets adjourn … ;0
[14:42] Tor Karlsvalt:
[14:42] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd
[14:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: 3rd!
[14:42] Fern Leissa: saw that Tor. Very nice
[14:42] Lilith Ivory: hehe ok then
[14:42] Lilith Ivory: all in favor to go home please say aye
[14:43] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:43] Pip Torok: aye
[14:43] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:43] Tor Karlsvalt:
[14:43] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[14:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye!
[14:43] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:43] Lilith Ivory: think Gwyn is still afk
[14:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Time for me to cook my dinner and start this fire…!
[14:43] Lilith Ivory: the meeting is adjourned
[14:44] Pip Torok: and for me to have a glass of fridge-cooled bottled water ….
[14:44] Lilith Ivory: afk for a while to fight with Gwyns color script

Permalink.

RA Meeting 23 January 2011

Transcript RA Meeting January 23
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:01 pm
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: Hi Raffles
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: hi pip
[12:00] Raffles Resident: Good day!
[12:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Pip ツ
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: welcome at the Praetorium
[12:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Raffles@!
[12:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: *!
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: hi raffles
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: oh hi Pip
[12:00] Pip Torok: hi Mikelo
[12:01] Pip Torok: hi mikelo
[12:01] Raffles Resident nods to Jigme and Pip “Good to see you again gentlemen
[12:01] Pip Torok: i met cadence this morning
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: yes, she’s agreed to build for me
[12:01] Raffles Resident: Miss Lilith, pleased to meet you
[12:01] Pip Torok: good evening raffles
[12:01] Raffles Resident: Pleased to meet you Mikelo too
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: I´m happy to meet you also Raffles
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: how was your first week or two in the CDS?
[12:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Relatively short meeting today, no?
[12:02] Raffles Resident: I am enjoying it immensely thank you
[12:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Dyanna, welcome to the CDS ツ
[12:02] Dyanna Saxmundham: ty
[12:02] Chat Range: Callipygian Christensen [20m] [12:03] Raffles Resident: Hello again Calli
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Soro, hi Arria
[12:03] Callipygian Christensen: hello Raffles
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Woops, arria’s not here yet!
[12:03] Raffles Resident: Greetings Dyanna
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Calli!
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli, Soro and Dyanna
[12:03] Raffles Resident: Greetings Soro
[12:03] Raffles Resident:
[12:03] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: presently, I’m sure
[12:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Jerome, welcome to the CDS
[12:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Keila ツ
[12:04] Jerome Roddenham: Hey
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: Hi Keila, Hi Jerome
[12:04] Raffles Resident: Greetings Keila and Jerome
[12:04] Pip Torok: hello keila, Jerome!
[12:05] Keila Forager: Hi everyone
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: hi to anyone I’ve missed
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: should we start with Citizens concerns while we are waiting for the others to arrive?
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: there she is, hi arria
[12:06] Raffles Resident: Greetings Arria
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Fern told me she can´t come today and asked for 7 day vote
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Arria ツ
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: that sounds good
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Guillaume ㋡
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, citizens’ concerns sounds best.
[12:07] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: the aganda is in the box and our meetings are transcripted btw
[12:07] Arria Perreault raises hand
[12:07] Raffles Resident nods
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: yes Arria?
[12:08] Pip Torok: citizens should note that anything here is assumed to be publishable …
[12:08] Arria Perreault: I would appreciate to have the agenda in advance in the forum
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: I try hard to manage this Arria
[12:09] Arria Perreault: I’ts hard to get ready for a meeting
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: this time my excuse is that I had problems loggin in at the forum
[12:09] Arria Perreault: meetings are every 2 weeks
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you and promise to become better
[12:09] Arria Perreault: you can always ask someone to publish it for you
[12:09] Arria Perreault: thank you ㋡
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: yes but the RA decided to have one this sunday to finish last meetings agenda
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: I will Arria
[12:10] Arria Perreault: Lilith, I can understand your issues and reasons, but publishing the agenda of a meeting of the RA in advance makes our processus more transparent and democratic
[12:10] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:10] Keila Forager raises hand
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:11] Soro Dagostino: I speak as an ex LRA —
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: yes
[12:11] Soro Dagostino: The task Arria is berating you about is a difficult task.
[12:12] Soro Dagostino: When things on the forum are not working — and its being challanged by a lot of spam.
[12:12] Soro Dagostino: Its nearly impossible.
[12:12] Soro Dagostino: I suggest Arria volunteer to publish it for you.
[12:13] Arria Perreault: with pleasure, Soro
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: under normal circumstances I can post it at the forum and the google calendar
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Why is spam suddenly more of a problem than before?
[12:13] Arria Perreault: I am always volunteer to improve our democracy
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: for other websites I will need a volunteer indeed
[12:13] Arria Perreault: you can send me a mail at any time
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: thank you Arria
[12:14] Pip Torok: two possible reasons mikelo …
[12:14] Arria Perreault: arria.perreault(a)gmail.com
[12:14] Pip Torok: 1 … weve just been discovered by the spammers
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: can we hear Keilas concern first please?
[12:14] Keila Forager: Thanks
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: before we come to other items
[12:15] Pip Torok: 2 … theyve always been there but gwyn(/) has quietly been pruning them
[12:15] Keila Forager: It is my understanding we have a content archivist which is a paid position.
[12:15] Keila Forager: If that is the case, why has it not been updated with RA transcripts, new elected officials, etc? I happened to skim through a few items this weekend.
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: unfortunately Tor might not be able to come today to answer you
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: Actually Pip , Gwyn said its some ability spammers or spam bots have found to hack the Capcha system of vetting registrations iirc
[12:16] Keila Forager: If we do have someone in that position, seems we are throwing away a monthy sum of money for very little work to be done.
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: could we please discuss one item after the other??
[12:16] Pip Torok: ah calli that may explain why CAPCHA thin ks ive logged-in too many times
[12:16] Keila Forager: Thanks Lil, but good luck with that..
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: we really have to look at this as the content archivist seemed to be an Alt that holds CDS content
[12:17] Callipygian Christensen: sorry Lilith, Keila
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: and needs no paiment imo
[12:17] Arria Perreault: can I give more info to Keila?
[12:17] Callipygian Christensen would like to comment on that when apropriate
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: that’s right, that was mentioned before calli, thx
[12:18] Callipygian Christensen: (that being content archivist , to be clear
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: sure Arria
[12:19] Arria Perreault: The RA content archivist (Cindy) has to publish all the info regarding the RA
[12:19] Arria Perreault: she has an account that work
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: oh I thought Keila was talking about the Content Archivist
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: not the RA archivist
[12:19] Arria Perreault: the RA or the LRA should see with her
[12:20] Arria Perreault: the Content Archivist has other task
[12:20] Keila Forager: last RA meetings transcripts published were May
[12:20] Arria Perreault: she has to make an archive with our contents (buildings for example)
[12:20] Keila Forager: the RA members have been updated, but Sonja is still llisted as Chancellor
[12:20] Keila Forager: this does not look good for new residents looking to being part of our community
[12:20] Arria Perreault: the elected people should be published by the PIO or his/her help
[12:21] Arria Perreault: I have offered to help. I did not get an official list
[12:21] Arria Perreault: but I am still willing to help
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: Her help hasn’t the required ability to publish those, Arria
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: I´ll inform the exec again that this needs to be done
[12:21] Keila Forager: transcripts are on the forums and ask Tor
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would love to work on that, though the PIO or the executive would have to instruct me to.
[12:22] Arria Perreault: if Tor wants, I can organize an account for someone and some instruction
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: ok other citizens concerns?
[12:23] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: Calli?
[12:23] Callipygian Christensen: re the content archivist, since it’s come up -I’vehad some questions about that position for some time
[12:24] Soro Dagostino: ?me raises hand.
[12:24] Callipygian Christensen: as well as builds, I believe content should include intans, decorations..all the oddsand ends of doing things in CDS
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: seems the position of the content archivist is a miriacle we should look at hehe
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: no one ever seems to know where anything is, or its been purchased no trans..wouldnt it make sense for part of the payment to the CA to be for a premium account that holds all these things..
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: and the honorarium cover the time to purchase needed items..rez them when needed etc?
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Such as Rudeen…?
[12:25] Pip Torok: Can i suggest that tor delegate someone to write a Job descriptiohn of the content Archivist?
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: well, but I think it does not make anything better if we talk about it now
[12:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: And by who is that position being held?
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: isn´t this an issue the exec should take care about?
[12:26] Callipygian Christensen: Pip..its a position that’s exitsted for a long time – has there never been any accountability of what the payment is for?
[12:26] Arria Perreault: Calli, I agree totally with you. This position should be our inventary
[12:26] Pip Torok: not as far as I know, Calli
[12:27] Callipygian Christensen: ok, Ill contact Tor about doing so
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker thought we were discussing the RA archivist…
[12:27] Arria Perreault: maybe the RA can vote a bill about that
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: I will ad this item on our next agenda – (content archivist) if you like
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I am affraid we have bought many items with our money that are non transfert
[12:28] Keila Forager: Content archivist/RA archivist…both are behind in posting on the portal..
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: well, that’s been true for years now
[12:28] Callipygian Christensen: Personally Ithink it is an important role..andthe property of CDS should come under RA scrutiny
[12:28] Arria Perreault: I would even suggest we have an alt for that, like Rudeen
[12:28] Arria Perreault: now we can create alts with any name
[12:28] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[12:29] Callipygian Christensen: Arria..that is what I meant by pay for a premium account *nod*
[12:29] Arria Perreault: CDS Inventory
[12:29] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you
[12:29] Arria Perreault: I would suggest the RA makes a law about the use of this alt
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: do we have other citizens concerns?
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: we run a little out of time at the moment
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Lest we do what we did last weekend, haha.
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shall we continue?
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: lol please dont
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: let´s talk about the commisions
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: we were in the middle of discussing continuing the commerce commision
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: as I recall, fern said she didn’t think they were needed, and I agreed
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: I studied the RA procedure rules and found out that any interestet citizen can become chair
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, seeing as we have the Commerce Coordinator here, she could advise us on that same matter.
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I agree with Mik & Fern
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: Keila do you want to say something about that commission?
[12:33] Keila Forager: Sure..
[12:35] Keila Forager: I don’t really know much about the commission. I think if CDS really wants to improve commerce or businesses here, it may be a good idea to keep it..
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: in the best of all world business owners could gather there and give input
[12:35] Keila Forager: I have sent out surveys to all of CDS and I have recieved a few, but sadly, the importance of business in CDS so far seems to be very lacking..
[12:36] Keila Forager: So also , if I don’t have your survey, please try and return to me by the end of the month
[12:36] Keila Forager: when I will compile the results
[12:37] Pip Torok wonders whether thats a SL-wide phenomenon in these difficult times
[12:37] Keila Forager: No Pip, this is CDS…
[12:37] Soro Dagostino knows its an RL issue.
[12:37] Keila Forager: I’m talking about the importance of having a business in CDS…
[12:38] Keila Forager: it’s rather apathetic
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: so do we want to continue this commision?
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: well, it’s up to the business owners to promote themselves
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: or do we need more discussion about that?
[12:38] Keila Forager: Not totally Mikelo
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: together the business owners can get more traffic and sales
[12:39] Keila Forager: So, since this seems to promote some discussion, then I think you should continue the commerce commission
[12:39] Pip Torok: well its for the Traders themselves to give us the input on whether they collectively cd benefit by a commission
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: also, if we can get more traffic here, it will benefit commerce
[12:39] Keila Forager: If it was up to the businesses, why have a commerce coordinator??
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: I ask that myself
[12:40] Callipygian Christensen: a theiving business sector attracts traffic, more businesses, and exposure to potential residents…
[12:40] Keila Forager: Because it was voted on and passed.
[12:40] Keila Forager: Correct Calli
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: it´s like in RL communities have to take care about busniness owners or they will leave
[12:40] Pip Torok: perhaps a joint effort, keila .. the RA facilitating any collective action the Traders migh wish to take
[12:40] Callipygian Christensen: if the interest is to have CDS grow and thrive, having a commerce coordinator to encourage that is a good thing
[12:41] Keila Forager: BTW, we do have a commerce coordinator..LOL
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: before we createt this office we had a lot of complains by busniess owners
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: so, how many are we talking?
[12:42] Keila Forager: I’m no longer in RA, but seems this discussion is better suited to a Commerce Commission or it will hijack the rest of the meeting
[12:42] Keila Forager: Mikelo, have you not read the forums or notices??
[12:42] Pip Torok agrees
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: anybody willing to chair this commision in case we vote for continuing it?
[12:42] Keila Forager: I’ve sent out surveys and the current business directory asking for input.
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: I read some of them
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, if citizens can chair commissions, why won’t the commerce coordinator chair it?
[12:43] Keila Forager: I also haven’t received a survey back from you..
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t have a business
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: though I do support local vendors
[12:43] Pip Torok: How about a follow-up query to all those who havent yet replied?
[12:43] Keila Forager: Just shows you didn’t read it, since I’ve asked for input from ALL citizens..
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: would you be willing to chair it Keila?
[12:44] Keila Forager: already done Pip
[12:44] Pip Torok: (ah)
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: all the questions were about ‘my’ business
[12:44] Keila Forager: Not all…
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Some were, “What is your advise”
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Which I fear is more useful then knowing about one’s business.
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: *than
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: as Keila didn´t scream no I take it as a yes
[12:45] Soro Dagostino: LOL — I sense a railroad in operation.
[12:45] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:45] Keila Forager: Sure, Lil, but I think but after I publish my findings…
[12:46] Keila Forager: Cuz I might be fired by then…LOL
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: lol I don´t think so heheh
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t believe so
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: might be a good start for a commision to talk about that
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: we still haven’t established the need for this commission
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: I move we discontinue the commerce commission for the time being.
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: sigh
[12:47] Keila Forager: I don’t care if you own a business, a bunch of land or are a citizen by group or sponsorship. I want the surveys returned to me.. or I will conclude you don’t care about commerce or CDS.
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: you can conclude what you like, it doesn’t make it true
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: I don´t hear a second for your move Mikelo
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: well, I had two agreeing with me before (one absent)
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: This commission will allow communication between the gov. and the citizens
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: can’t they communicate already?
[12:48] Keila Forager: We have elected and appointed officials to try and help and make CDS better, so if you don’t respond on purpose, that is just apathetic
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: With what way to this body?
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: people change their minds all the time
[12:48] Pip Torok: Mik … withn so little input, it wont matter whether the commission is formally wound-up imo …
[12:48] Arria Perreault: I just a remark about that
[12:49] Lilith Ivory: would you please raise your hanbd before speaking Arria?
[12:49] Pip Torok: so that proposal is redundant, i suggest
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: I might add, I feel part of the purpose for all these commissions was to remove planning from this body
[12:49] Pip Torok: 9sorry Mme Chair)
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: yes as planing can be done better in a commison who presents their items to us
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: we don´t have the time here to chat endless about all issues
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: more efficiently perhaps, but to what end?
[12:50] Pip Torok: raises hand
[12:50] Arria Perreault: we have tried to make several commerce commissions, without success. Finally the commission of Lilith came to the conclusion that this question needs an appointed position. It’s a more dynamic solution. Keila can work now. Why do we need an extra commission?
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: the last one was a success Arria
[12:51] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Pip ?
[12:51] Arria Perreault: and the solution is here now: Keila
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: And we can hear citizens’ concerns through a commission better than we can at these meetings
[12:51] Arria Perreault: the only task such a commission could have is to control what Keila does
[12:52] Pip Torok: lets get back to basics … commissions are here to _address a need_ … if there seems to be no need, then the commission is redundatntg
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Or to get input from the citizens’
[12:52] Arria Perreault: (in this case, I would agree)
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: how are peope more likely to show up at a commission meeting than here?
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: imo commisions are good for getting input
[12:52] Keila Forager: I’m trying to get input, but a lot of apathetic or not present people here in CDS
[12:52] Soro Dagostino: I agree.
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: isn´t more active citizens what we all want?
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Because they’d have to read an agenda, whereas the agenda of a commission is in its name.
[12:52] Pip Torok: so … we can let it totter on for a little 9my choice) or put it out of its misery 9mikelo’s) .. lets choose and move on
[12:52] Arria Perreault: citizen -> RA -> executive is the right way
[12:53] Arria Perreault: comission are to prepare a bill for the RA to discuss
[12:53] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Arria
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:53] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order.
[12:53] Soro Dagostino: Not motion on the floor.
[12:54] Soro Dagostino: No second.
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: well, I made my motion, anybody?
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: no second for yours so far :9
[12:55] Keila Forager smiles
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: It isn’t apparent that we have reason for a new bill…
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to have a motion to continue this commision
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I believe that the Coordinator is capable to hear the citizens’…
[12:55] Pip Torok: so in effect the choice is “let it totter on” (sorry keila)
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: I second Mikelo’s motion.
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: the suspense was killing me, thx
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: do we need more dioscussion of can we vote for tabling it till end of days?
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I fear we may be perfectly dead-locked, tbh.
[12:56] Pip Torok: move to vote
[12:57] Lilith Ivory waits for a second
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: if we have a second, then we vote, yes?
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: exactly
[12:57] Keila Forager plays music from Jeopady..
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: we don’t need to move to vote
[12:57] Lilith Ivory giggles insanely
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: pip moved
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: second
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: but ok anybody who wants to table this say aye please
[12:58] Pip Torok: aye
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: pip moved to vote, and I seconded
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: not moved to table
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: and now we vote Mikelo
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: but you said aye to table
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: what did you move then?
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Move to vote on Mik’s motion, preferably.
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: always nice to repeat on what we are voting
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: makes things more easy in this chaos
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: His motion was to drop the commission
[13:00] Pip Torok: Mikelo … “move to vote” means move directly from discussion to the voting process … and a second seconds that proposal
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: yea exactly
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Seconded by me; motioned to vote by Pip
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: ok, and my proposal again: I move we discontinue the commerce commission for the time being.
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: I second.
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: ok let´s vote on that all in favor say aye
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: (being aware it can be changed the next second after voting
[13:01] Pip Torok: abstain
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: abstain
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: fern has her 7 vote
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Election Commission?
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: too bad gwyn isn’t here to talk about it
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: I think we should table that as Gwyn was the chair last term and I´d like to hear a summary from her before we vote on that
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[13:03] Pip Torok: agree
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Citizenship Commission
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: ok let´s table this commision
[13:04] Pip Torok again agrees
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: Arria can you tell us if there are pending items in this commision?
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: well, it served its purpose, right?
[13:04] Arria Perreault: only one
[13:04] Arria Perreault: I think that there is a misunderstanding about one point in the law
[13:04] Arria Perreault: about sponsorship location
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, there may be
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: so you think we should continue this commision?
[13:05] Pip Torok: what is the problem exactly, Arria and Guillaume?
[13:05] Callipygian Christensen raises hr hand
[13:06] Arria Perreault: in the mind of the commission, it was clear that the surface of a parcel for sponsor location should be divided in parts of 256 msq to give the amount of possible sponsir citizen for this part
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: Calli, your turn after Arrias answer
[13:06] Arria Perreault: we can’t have an infinite amount of citizen for the Amphitheater
[13:06] Arria Perreault: it was not our idea
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I had even calculated the amount of CDS citizen this new law: 1890
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: And which law says this?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: Guillaume, we have discussed that. I think the wording doesnt correspond to what we had in mind (my mothertongue is not english)
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=425
[13:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, yes, but the law doesn’t give that stipulation
[13:08] Lilith Ivory: maybe the commision should continue and give us a bill with the right text than
[13:08] Arria Perreault: we had this discussion in the forum and I would like to propose an amendment. SO yes, Lilith, we need to meet again
[13:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: It does for groups, but not for sponsorship
[13:08] Lilith Ivory: would you be willing to stay chair?
[13:09] Arria Perreault: yes, of course ㋡
[13:09] Arria Perreault: Guillaume, it was not our idea
[13:09] Soro Dagostino: So she can call meetings with five minutes time.
[13:09] Soro Dagostino: And no agendas.
[13:10] Arria Perreault: I will invite in advance, publish an agenda and even publish the transcripts, Sora
[13:10] Keila Forager smiles at Soro
[13:10] Arria Perreault: and I don’t appreciate your attitude.
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: that´s how commisions should work
[13:11] Soro Dagostino: will you do that for the Colonia Nova group?
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: That was quite a snub, to say the least.
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: See, this is what I was talking about in my post, the nastiness, not necessary imo
[13:11] Arria Perreault: In all positions I had, I did my job (I am also a former LRA)
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye Mik
[13:11] Arria Perreault: what is the Colonia Group?
[13:11] Soro Dagostino: Your the chair.
[13:12] Arria Perreault: I only chair the roman regional committee and I usually do the same
[13:12] Callipygian Christensen: Madame Chair..please call order?
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: ok yes
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: order please
[13:13] Soro Dagostino: Cheeseburger.
[13:13] Arria Perreault: I don’t appreciate, your attitude, Sora and I would like you explane your agressivitiy to this attendance
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pardon?
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: can we come to voting on the citizenship commision or do we need more discussion?
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe we’ve had enough discussion…
[13:13] Arria Perreault: Soro’s attitude is not acceptable
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: I´d apreciate a motion for voting
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: I motion that we retain this commission
[13:14] Pip Torok: seconded
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: ok
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: all in favor for continuing this commision say aye please
[13:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[13:14] Pip Torok: aye
[13:14] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:15] Arria Perreault: thank you. I will call a meeting soon
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: ok the citizenship commission will be continued
[13:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Finance Commission?
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: unfortunately we might have to table this also as Tor was the chair and he excused himself also today
[13:16] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[13:16] Pip Torok: nods
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: I’d like to hear what the commission was about
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: yes same here
[13:17] Pip Torok: do you mean the subject area of the commission Mik?
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: but of course it can be read somewhere in the forum
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: specific goals, more like
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: let´s wait for Tor so he can tell us about it
[13:19] Mikelo Serevi: do we need to move or are we happy to table?
[13:19] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m happy to table
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: seems like nobody disagrees with that
[13:19] Pip Torok: i’d feel very happy to table
[13:19] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[13:19] Mikelo Serevi: all righty then
[13:19] Mikelo Serevi:
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: makes sense imo
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: Communications Commision:
[13:20] Pip Torok: raises hand
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: yes Pip?
[13:21] Pip Torok: i understand that this commission was a vehicle to benefit from kaeido special expertise
[13:22] Pip Torok: in media studies … now we have a differen situation and kas is part of a group of sims no longer in contact with us …
[13:22] Pip Torok: so I propose that we wind up this commission .. unless we can find another expert!
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: uhm the fact that Kas left does not mean we have to stop communicating
[13:22] Pip Torok: done
[13:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: Is that a motion?
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: well, the chancellor is doing a lot of the communications items now, right?
[13:23] Keila Forager raises hand and says, communication is poor in CDS and seems we need some help
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: last time we were talking about new ways to make the CDS known in SL and elsewhere
[13:23] Arria Perreault: I am volunteer ㋡
[13:23] Pip Torok: no … but isnt a commission on communicatinfg there to find means to better communicate …
[13:23] Arria Perreault: I did a lot in this domain
[13:23] Pip Torok: well always communicate, no matter what
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: so I think we have to continue this commissiomn
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: haha
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: well, did communications mean things like the forum and twitter and all?
[13:24] Pip Torok: question is are there prospects of definite benifits if we continue?
[13:24] Pip Torok: yes Mik
[13:25] Keila Forager: Absolutely
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: so are these things covered?
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: Mikelo, you were sugesting to find ways to bring political interested people in the CDS
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: this commission could work on that also
[13:26] Pip Torok: sounds like mission-creep, lilith!
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: yes, but we can do that anyway. I’m working on one now
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: but as you are working on it anyway, why not in a commision?
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: what Pip?
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t see a point myself, now that I’m thinking about it
[13:28] Pip Torok: well if we extend the purposes of any one commission … it vitiates the drive behind it … gives it too many purposes …
[13:28] Pip Torok: (its what politicians mean by “mission-creep” btw)
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: and geeks call it “scope creep”
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: I see
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: where a project starts to do something, and changes/bloats
[13:30] Pip Torok: as I see it kas concentrated on technical aids to communication
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: in fact I don´t see any reason why not to continue this commission
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: I’m on the fence
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: we need to be better known and we should work on that
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: Will it overlap with the information officers?
[13:31] Pip Torok wd be happier if the name better reflected the function of the commission
[13:32] Keila Forager is confused
[13:32] Pip Torok: no … imo
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: what´s wrong with the name?
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: “communication” is a tad vague
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: any better idea how to call it?
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: it sounds more like public relations
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: isn´t it what this commission is about?
[13:33] Pip Torok: well “bringing in politically aware ppl into CDS”(?) isnt communication, and im not sure what it is … Mikelo?
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes, but so is chatting in SL
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: I see what you mean though
[13:34] Keila Forager: This is the first RA meeting i’ve seen advance notice of, so the other meetings had lack of communication for a meeting time…
[13:34] Pip Torok: you see i dont see the purpose youre driving at by doing this, mikelo
[13:34] Mikelo Serevi: I suspect the holidays had something to do with that
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: bringing in political interested people can be part of it but also the commission can work on banner advertisement like mentioned last meeting
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: you seemed to love talking about that issue
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: wait, doing what, Pip?
[13:35] Keila Forager: sorry lil, just example
[13:35] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:35] Pip Torok: proposing “bringing in polirtically aware ppl” … (whoever they are)
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: why can´t we just leave the old name of that commission?
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: and continue it?
[13:36] Keila Forager: communication
Definition
com·mu·ni·ca·tion[ kə myni káysh’n ]com·mu·ni·ca·tions Plural
NOUN
1. exchange of information: the exchange of information between people, e.g. by means of speaking, writing, or using a common system of signs or behavior
2. message: a spoken or written message
3. act of communicating: the communicating of information
4. rapport: a sense of mutual understanding and sympathy
5. access: a means of access or communication, e.g. a connecting door
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: oh, I was thinking that people interested in politics might be more engaged
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: ty Keila
[13:37] Pip Torok: ok … but i still am not clear exactly what purpose and/or benefit mikelo has in mind …
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: we do need people who actively participate in our community
[13:38] Pip Torok: i see … so in effect it is a hope that this will happen …
[13:38] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:39] Pip Torok: in effect an anti-apathy campaign …
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: for example
[13:39] Keila Forager raises hand to say we also need more effective communicaton between the community in CDS…seems the forum and notices aren’t really working..
[13:39] Pip Torok: good point, Keila!
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: I wonder wether the CDS is more visible in search now or if we still have to work on that also
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: another item the commission can take care of
[13:40] Keila Forager hangs head..sorry, spoke out of turn. No longer in RA
[13:40] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:40] Pip Torok: youre still a citizen keila .. and you have the right to make such comments
[13:41] Keila Forager: Yes, but spoke out of turn ..
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I dont know that it needs to be that formal
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Is anyone will to chair the commission…?
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: well, normally non RA members should raise their hands first
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: *willing
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: but as it seems we all have to get used to this again
[13:41] Keila Forager raises hand and says, yes, Mikelo it should be..
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pardon, I’m a bit AFK-y
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Mik, are you up to it?
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: ok Gui
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, I’m not sure it’s necessary to have a whole commission about it
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: anybody willing to chair this commission?
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: the more people are thinking about it the better I think
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: how does it overlap with Tor and the PIOs?
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: there might be people with different skills that can be helpful
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: I don´t think we should leave all work for the exec alone
[13:44] Pip Torok agrees
[13:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I’m not exactly sure how it effects Anna, but my job is basically to host the metanomics show
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: the commision can present bills and tell the exec what else to do
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: suggest I mean
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, we communicate to the viewers of Metanomics, yes.
[13:46] Keila Forager raises hand
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: I don´t think this commison is about how to talk to those people
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: yes Keila?
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: Keila?
[13:48] Keila Forager: A communications commission can be used for so many things. Like developing other ways of communicating in world with residents. And maybe even be given the job of getting us in Showcase…that is such an easy thing to do and I have a place there and it’s only 8K sqm. If we don’t communicate with our own residents and residents on the grid,
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: good point Keila
[13:49] Keila Forager: then it’s just us…and just us will fade away as we continue to lose citizens without gaining more..New citizens bring new ideas. A commission could be a good place for them to go with fresh observations of CDS and ideas
[13:49] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:50] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[13:50] Keila Forager: I have some good ideas sometimes
[13:50] Keila Forager: hehe
[13:50] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: anybody volunteering to chair this commision?
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: in case we vote for it
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: Mikelo?
[13:51] Pip Torok: also excellent preparation for thinking, debating, and coming to conclusions
[13:51] Mikelo Serevi declines
[13:51] Mikelo Serevi: but thank you
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: uhm …
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: anybody else?
[13:51] Guillaume Mistwalker shakes his head
[13:52] Arria Perreault: there are other RA members who are not here today …
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: yes I agree
[13:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: We could table it until we have a chair…
[13:53] Callipygian Christensen: if chairs dont have to be a RA member, why not announce the position and seek a volunteer form the populace
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: I think we should vote wether we want to continue or not and try to find a chair in the forum
[13:53] Pip Torok: until we have a chair? G … could be a long time
[13:53] Keila Forager: /notices will reach more people..
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: unless someone is dying to do it, I think we should discontinue
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: as we came so far now I wouldn´t want to table the whole item
[13:54] Pip Torok: i propose we discontinue this commission
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: we could vote for continuing it if we find a chair – or not
[13:54] Mikelo Serevi: second
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: sigh ok
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: anybody in favor for Pips motion say aye please
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:55] Raffles Resident raises hand “Erm”
[13:55] Pip Torok: shall we move to a vote, Madame chair?
[13:55] Pip Torok: aye
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: I just called to vote – is it imoprtant now what you want to say Raffles?
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: Raffles?
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: looks like he’s typing
[13:57] Raffles Resident: I think that it is an important thing, communication within and outreach… I would hate to see it fold…. could UI be considered?
[13:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ulysse?
[13:57] Raffles Resident: *I
[13:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah
[13:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: You want to be chair?
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you Raffles
[13:58] Raffles Resident: If I can be, being so new a citizen
[13:58] Arria Perreault: Raffles, why not to wait the vote of the RA
[13:58] Arria Perreault: ?
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe you can
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: I think you should be able to chair it
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Are we voting now, Lil?
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: well having a chair might influence the decisions of RA members
[13:58] Pip Torok: oftentimes .. its good that a fresh outlook can direct a commission
[13:59] Raffles Resident: If it had been voted against, would it not have lost impetus Arria?
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: RA members
[13:59] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I moved to discontinue…
[13:59] Arria Perreault: I was volunteer too, Lilith, read back
[13:59] Arria Perreault: nobody has reacted
[13:59] Mikelo Serevi: I missed that
[13:59] Arria Perreault: look back
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: as everybody just talks without order I might have missed something
[13:59] Pip Torok: the vote was never completed btw
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: yes, we were voting to discontinue since there were no chairs…
[14:00] Raffles Resident: I don’t wish to usurp Arria, should she wish to chair it
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: right
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: but now it seems we have two people willing to volunteer
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: Arria and Raffles
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: It seems that Raffles has conceded in favour of Arria.
[14:01] Pip Torok: Madame Chair I believe its for you to rule whether this vote should continue, or no
[14:01] Raffles Resident: I’d be happy to assist Arria
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shall we vote?
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: as we have new facts now we can vote on Pips motion first and hopefully I get a motion to continue the commission after
[14:02] Arria Perreault: it’s a topic for whicj a lot of knowledge is needed
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: Pip you still want to discontinue it?
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pip, pardon, what was your motion exactly?
[14:03] Pip Torok: Madame Chair I believe its for you to rule whether this vote should continue, or no
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: I can not just ignore a motion with a second
[14:03] Pip Torok: then we can put a new proposal if necessary
[14:03] Pip Torok: so what do you rule?
[14:04] Mikelo Serevi: she said continue, I think
[14:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: ok do I hear a motion to discontinue this commission ?
[14:04] Pip Torok: continue with the vote?
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: or do I hear a motion to continue it?
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: or both ??
[14:04] Mikelo Serevi: I thought we were going to finish voting?
[14:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe we have Pip’s motion to discontinue
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: well I should call for that vote again I think
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: so everybody who wants this commission to be dis continued say aye please
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:05] Pip Torok: yes but we are IN THE MIDDLE OF VOTING … please madame Chair can you rule whther this voting should continue or not?
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: She has Pip- your vote?
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: we are about to continue it
[14:06] Pip Torok: then we can do other things
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Mik’s given his
[14:06] Pip Torok: it was aye
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: I vote against the motion.
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: gez can´t we just vote now?
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: nay
[14:06] Mikelo Serevi: we have a 7-day vote
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: right
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: have to translate your chat into aye and nay hehe
[14:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Nay
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: seems to be two aye and two nay so far
[14:07] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[14:08] Keila Forager raises hand to add more confusion….
[14:08] Pip Torok: (my apologies for shouting, Madame Chair)
[14:08] Lilith Ivory: lol
[14:08] Lilith Ivory: Keila?
[14:08] Keila Forager: Does the vote stand since the motion was to disband because there was no chiar, and now 2 volunteers.
[14:08] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:09] Mikelo Serevi happens to think a commission for this is also unneeded
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: for me it seemed that it didn´t matter to pip wether we have chairs or not
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: and the RA members did know we have ones
[14:09] Keila Forager: yes, sorry, finally find the actual motion…
[14:10] Keila Forager: found
[14:10] Callipygian Christensen: I dont thinkreasons for the motion matter..Pip chose not to withdraw it or amend it..its voted on
[14:10] Arria Perreault: I think we have to wait the final result of this vote
[14:10] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand retroactivley
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: right Calli
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: and I´ve to call for vote no matter wether I like it or not
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: Calli?
[14:11] Callipygian Christensen: no..nothing..go on
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: exactly Arria
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe that hand-raising was after-the-fact
[14:11] Pip Torok: its knots like these that reinforce an argument that once a vote is started … it should continue with interruption
[14:11] Pip Torok: *without
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: F New Commissions?
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi: technically, it should, but these things are messy
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: does anybody have ideas about what else commisions we need?
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: There’s been alot of talk about creating a new sim, West of NFS and South of Monastery
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: seems to be more a guilt issue imo
[14:13] Pip Torok: i think this is an area where input from new citizens wd be really beneficial
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Do we need a commission for that?
[14:13] Mikelo Serevi: what, ppl don’t like that hole in the grid?
[14:13] Mikelo Serevi:
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: isn´t there a work group within the guilt
[14:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: It seems Raffles’s disappeared
[14:14] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:14] Keila Forager believes we have talked about it in New Guild meetings
[14:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see
[14:15] Keila Forager: wb Raffles
[14:15] Raffles Resident: thank you, apologies
[14:15] Mikelo Serevi: crash, looked like
[14:15] Pip Torok: yes … welcome back
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: wb Raffles
[14:16] Raffles Resident smiles in thanks
[14:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, welcome
[14:16] Pip Torok is reminded of english ppl who apologise when _their_ toe is stepped upon ….
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: as we are over time already I suggest you to think about wehter you want to see a new commision and tell me before the next meeting so I can put it on the agenda
[14:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok
[14:17] Mikelo Serevi: sounds like a good idea
[14:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[14:17] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: So… Announcements & adjourn?
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: do we have RA members concerns?
[14:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have none
[14:17] Mikelo Serevi: nor I
[14:18] Pip Torok: madame Chair can I ask you to consider putting Questions from friends WITH Citizens concerns?
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: ok I can do that
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: just though there might be questions after the meeting
[14:19] Lilith Ivory: as before interested guest don´t know how we work
[14:19] Lilith Ivory: either works for me
[14:20] Lilith Ivory: as we don´t have visitors at the moment we can come to anouncements anyway
[14:20] Pip Torok: it may be too much to expect friends to sit thru 2 hours of something they may only half-understand …
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: well ok I can at this to citizens concerns also
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: ad
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: any anouncements?
[14:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: I do, yes.
[14:22] Lilith Ivory: Gui?
[14:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: As I am making the Floralia temple and its grounds (which are having some very positive feedback already), I require some money for the cult statue of Flora, which Mik and Tor came with me earlier to see. In order to raise money, I am thinking on planing a “Tour de la Conféderation”
[14:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: Which will be a race all around the CDS by car, chariot, bike or running, etc…
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: sounds fun
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi looks for a steed in his inv
[14:24] Lilith Ivory: when will it happen?
[14:24] Keila Forager: Speak to Tor , if it is a CDS event for money, if it’s in the budget
[14:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: I hope to have such a race in either March or April and *hopefully* I can pull together some monetary rewards, make a nice trophy and/or get some to give free things ツ
[14:24] Callipygian Christensen: Rl is demanding I make a long overduereturn to it..enjoy your afternoon/evening.night everyone
[14:24] Mikelo Serevi: bye Calli
[14:24] Lilith Ivory: see you Calli
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: And it is, Keila, but it will also open some interest into the CDS and the festival
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Calli!
[14:25] Raffles Resident: Nite Calli!
[14:25] Keila Forager: Speak to me after meeting about it, maybe we can plan a market..
[14:25] Keila Forager: to coincide
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok, wonderful ツ
[14:25] Lilith Ivory: cool
[14:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh, yes, I was meant to talk to you about a market for Floralia as well
[14:25] Keila Forager: AFter the meeting pls
[14:25] Lilith Ivory: any other announcements?
[14:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Of course ツ
[14:26] Lilith Ivory: if not I move to adjourn this meeting
[14:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: I second
[14:26] Lilith Ivory: all in favor say aye please
[14:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[14:26] Mikelo Serevi: aye, only 2.5hours
[14:26] Mikelo Serevi:
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: waiting for Pip
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: aye from me also
[14:27] Pip Torok: aye
[14:27] Guillaume Mistwalker is thinking we may need to attack Pip with som IMs to wake him up
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: ok this meeting is adjourned
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: we become better hehe
[14:27] Pip Torok: touche Guillaume!
[14:28] Mikelo Serevi: thx lilith
[14:28] Keila Forager: OK, I’m off to walk the dogs…back later..
[14:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok, see you soon
[14:28] Raffles Resident: Bye Keila!
[14:28] Mikelo Serevi: I must get to Rl myself
[14:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok
[14:29] Mikelo Serevi: bye keila
[14:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Mik
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: see you all later guys
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: I´ve to run also

Permalink.

RA Meeting 6 February 2011

Transcript RA Meeting February 6
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:42 pm
[11:51] Lilith Ivory: Hi Mikelo
[11:51] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[11:55] Mikelo Serevi: People really like to be on the dot
[11:56] Lilith Ivory: hehe looks like it
[11:57] Lilith Ivory: it´s always exciting to find out wether we have a quorum or not
[11:57] Mikelo Serevi: well it is superbowl sunday, isn’t it?
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: I´ve been told so
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: but didn´t get any request for 7 day votes
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: hi pip
[11:58] Pip Torok: hi everyone!
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: at least no super bowl in UK
[11:59] Pip Torok: no … but wait till 2012
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: hopefully I won´t be LRA then
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: did anybody hear about Cindy?
[11:59] Pip Torok: well it is a long time away!
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: I didn´t see her at all this year
[11:59] Pip Torok: i havent
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: sigh
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: no, I wonder if she has gotten that city council potision she spoke of
[12:00] Pip Torok: possible … i have her skype
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: at least she could send us a note than
[12:00] Pip Torok: i can IM her
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: I´ll try to contact her also if she does not come today
[12:01] Pip Torok: if you care to dictate a note i’ll gladly skype it
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: yikes maybe after the meeting
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: “Yo, where u at?”
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi:
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: need to keep my aganda in mind hehe
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: is this in the box today’s? it says 1/23, but the note is dated today
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: it looks current, too
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: I smuggled a new agenda in when I arrived
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: also a citizens concern
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I saw
[12:03] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith ㋡
[12:03] Pip Torok: todays agenda?
[12:03] Arria Perreault: Hi Mikelo ㋡
[12:03] Pip Torok: hi Arria
[12:03] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip ㋡
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: hi Arria!
[12:03] Pip Torok: hi jerome!
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: grrr it´s the new one just with the old date
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: i´ts hard to be perfect hehe
[12:03] Pip Torok: oh!
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi: ok, np
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi often leaves out these details himself
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: now
[12:05] Pip Torok: hi Tor!
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: we still need one more to have a quorum
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jeroma
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Jeroma
[12:06] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: grumble grumble
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: ha all
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Tor ㋡
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi anna
[12:06] Jeroma Wycliffe: Hi all
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: hi Tor
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: I propose to have a TV here with live Super Bowl
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: and visitors, hi Jeroma
[12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: oh not until 6:30 est
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: lol lilith, that could increase attendance
[12:07] Lilith Ivory smiles wisely
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Mikelos and Hi Jeoma
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: I know you guys
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Lil you don’t think we will last that long?
[12:07] Pip Torok: i’ll support you if we have wall2wall coverage of the 2012,Olympics
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: no way hehe
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: I postet the time of this meeting last weekend
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: so this time it´s not me if people don´t know eheh
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: well Lil here are what we call Superbowl Parties
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:09] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Beer, beer and
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: grrrrr
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: did I say beer
[12:09] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:09] Mikelo Serevi: chips, bbq
[12:10] Pip Torok: sounds unhealthily english to me!
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: I think beer drinking hooligans are very international ,-)
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Well Green Bay beat my Bears
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: haa
[12:11] Pip Torok: ah yes … the team with the wonder-manager
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: and you didn´t even get their outfit
[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria, Really like that temple Guillaume built
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: and I bought a gondola
[12:12] Pip Torok: whens the eta of the temple btw?
[12:13] Arria Perreault: yes, Guillaume has made a great work
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: yes he got the statue yesterday.
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: aaah here comes Fern
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Fern
[12:13] Arria Perreault: I have called a meeting of the roman regional committee for next week, so we can start to work seriously on Floriala
[12:13] Pip Torok: hi Fern!
[12:13] Arria Perreault: Floralia
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: great
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: Hi Fern
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Hi fern
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: welcome Ms quorum hehe
[12:13] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern ㋡
[12:13] Fern Leissa: Hi Mikelo
[12:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Arria
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: I and fern were talkng maybe of a horse race
[12:14] Fern Leissa: Very sorry to be late
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: np fern
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: better late then never
[12:14] Arria Perreault: come to the meeting. we will make the program
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: oh Hi Gwyn
[12:14] Pip Torok: well were not short of horses tho not in CDS
[12:14] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn ㋡
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyn
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi and sorry!
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: Gwyn, hi
[12:14] Pip Torok: hi Gwyn!
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: seems like we can start the meeting now
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: agenda and a citizen concern are in the box
[12:15] Pip Torok: < re-saw "they shoot horses don't they" last night >
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. The citizen concern is something very serious!…
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: absolutely!
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: that´s why I´m happy to have a quorum today
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: should we talk about it first?
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi nods
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: does everybody have the notecard or want me to post it in chat?
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I have read it
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: maybe I should for the transcriüpt
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, yes….
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I agree that it is an important topic (transparency)
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: Concern of Citizen.
It has recently come to my attention that the executive team of CDS has been offering our land, and in fact has sold some, at “negotiated” prices. No where on our forums or portal do these prices appear, so that they are available to all purchasers. I see no where in the transcripts that such negotiations have been approved by the RA. When I have questioned the chancellor on this, I was told that it is up to the chancellor to do whatever he wishes with our land. That is not my understanding, and certainly not the way land sales have been conducted in the past. Could the RA address this and explain what kind of notice and documentation the people of CDS are entitled to when it comes to pricing our land? When the 0 L land sales act expired in February 2010, it was my understanding that land was only to be offered for the published, statutory prices, until such time as the RA reconsidered. Has the RA relinquished that right?
Land in SL is in crisis, and it makes sense that the RA revisit this important subject, but in a democracy, there should be adequate notice, and such prices should be available to all, not just the lucky few who happen to chat with the chancellor and make “deals.”
Thank you.
Rose Springvale.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: yes, better to paste it
[12:18] Arria Perreault: Hi Guillaume ㋡
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gui
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: almost a full house now
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Guillaume
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: cool
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello, pardon my lateness… Though, it’s a blessing I checked my e-mail.
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: transcript and the citizens concern we are talking about now are in the box
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Guillaume
[12:19] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Gwyn ツ
[12:20] Pip Torok: well Tor made an initiative and i believe its for the whole RA to give its approval or otherwise
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: I always was in favor for reduced land prices
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: We don’t actually need the income right now, although I agree it should be transparent
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, I think that are several issues here at stake… 1) Is this allowed under the *current* legislation? 2) Has it been effectively used? 3) Is it a “loophole” or something that we wish, henceforward, to be the case? (if so, and if it’s not clear in the legislation that the Chancellor has the power of setting the prices at will, then we should vote on a new bill to clarify that)
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: For example, I bought land last week and paid the full price…
[12:22] Pip Torok: speaking for myself, i understand that tor ok’d this arrangement with Sudane, an felt that under present dire economic circumstances an initiative was called … though of course I am not speaking for the RA as a whole
[12:22] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, but we don’t want to be accused of making insider deals
[12:23] Pip Torok: “insider” ? in what way, Mikelo?
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: If the chancellor likes you you get a good deal, otherwise not, that kind of thing
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: The CDS could be accused of corruption
[12:24] Pip Torok: ah .. but in these circumstances its land chasing ppl, not the other way around
[12:24] Arria Perreault: Hi Soro ㋡
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: Hi Soro
[12:24] Soro Dagostino: Hello All.
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Soro
[12:24] Pip Torok: … so imo insider deals are not possible
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: Gwyn’s point was good, was it in fact legal?
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn is still trying to look at the current legislation
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know how that is…
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: there is noen
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: none
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I did expect as much, Tor
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: I think we should talk more about what Gwyn said
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: this might lead us to decisions
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: yes Tor
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a statement
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: yes?
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps i could put some persective on this and the constitutional issues that are in lay
[12:26] Fern Leissa: I’m in agreement with Gwyn. We need to figure out what is allowed, what’s not and if there’s nothing clear in the law, we need legislation that provides guidance for the Chancellor
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: firt let me state before my statement ahha
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so far, I’ve just found NL9-3: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=241
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: selling land requires my inpute or anna, and Sudane’s
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: it is not likely that any secret deals will be entered into
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: please open local chat
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Recently, I citizen became concerned about my practice of negotiating prices for land in CDS. I should point out that this has not resulted in a huge sale of land. But has had some minor success.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: First, let me state, that it is impractical that every action of the exec be public or require pre-approveal by the RA.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: And our system of equal branches requires checks and balances but not subversion of one branch by another.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: But to answer any concerns I would like to make a statement on record with the RA.
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: It is well within the powers of the executive to set the price of land and to negotiate a sales prices.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: My attempts to sell land in CDS have been completely above board. In every instance, I have shown land set on the yellow map and land not set for sale.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: In at least one instance this practice led to a sale, albeit at a negotiated price. The seller obviously was unaware of a desirable parcel being available.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: At no time have I or Anna bought land and then sold it at a discount to people we determined to be desirable. Nor have we refused to negotiate with people of a certain political persuasion.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Indeed politics, beyond information about our system and democracy, is not discussed or a concern.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Nor have we used our position to curry favor or request any sort of consideration from buyers in the form of money or political influence.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Nor have I or any in the exec team used personal funds to subsidize the purchase of parcels and thus possibly influence the political makeup of CDS.
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: My goal has merely been to keep CDS financially healthy, guard against any need to dip into reserves for operating expenses and bring new members into our community.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The portal defines the charts as the original prices. There is no mention that the prices are statutory or permanent.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The concept of statutory prices may have become a convention in the minds of many. But I cannot find any act to make original land prices the statutory price of land.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The establishment of prices as permanent seems unreasonable and therefore, I would not have expected reasonable people, aware of markets and especially the market in SL, to write land prices into the law.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: My position that I could set land prices was presented to the RA on December 16th in the State of the Sim Address.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: [12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The government will set properties for sale at a reasonable rate with the stress on having most properties set for sale. Sale prices of property held by CDS will be reduced to a reasonable market rate.
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The constitution allows the Chancellor to determine the use of land and make regulations regarding management of the sim (land).
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: This general power, along with the fact that there is no limiting statute, and that sale of land has long been a function of the executive,
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: and that the controls for setting land are part of the EM all indicate to me that the executive can set the price of land.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: It is with deep regret that a controversy may ensue from the exec teams actions. I can assure you that at no time was it my intention to skirt the any law or operate in the dark.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Further, no parties to any land deals were under any request of silence. In all cases I and my team have acted according to the best interest of CDS and SL land markets.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! Thank you, Tor!
[12:31] Pip Torok: raises hand
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: that is the executive postiton
[12:31] Fern Leissa: Yes thank you tor
[12:31] Arria Perreault raises hand
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: thank you Tor
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: Pip first than Arria :9
[12:32] Pip Torok: it seems to me that the raiser of the concern has not checked the current legislation ..
[12:32] Pip Torok: and I wonder for what purpose the concern was ever raised
[12:32] Pip Torok: done
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I have questions: is the yellow map activated? are all land owned by Rudeen Edo for public sale (no matter for the price)? is the list in the forums regularly updated ?
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[12:33] Arria Perreault: my concern is: can everybody become a citizen or does he/she need a “negociation” with the Chancellor?
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: The list in the forum is regularly updated by Anna.
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: that is the easy question.
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Anyone is fee to by any parcel set for sale without intervention by the chancellor
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: most land is on the yellow map.
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Settting the yellow map on all parcels raises some market ing concerns.
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: In the past and currently, we desire a balance so the sim does not look like a firesale
[12:35] Arria Perreault: (I see no yellow)
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: It was on this week, when I bought a parcel
[12:36] Arria Perreault: (now I see)
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: (have you checked the “Land for Sale”?)
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: I see more yellow than I want to see
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I see plenty of yellow
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: you have to dump your cache
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, ok.
[12:36] Arria Perreault: it’s ok now
[12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots of yellow indeed
[12:36] Arria Perreault: I see 20 parcels
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: indeed I think more land is put on sale than would have been in the past
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: It is my policy that I show all land, set for sale or not
[12:37] Mikelo Serevi: Of course, the presence of yellow does not always indicate crisis…
[12:37] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: any land owned by Rudeeen is for sale parying public land
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: yes Soro?
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: I think it would for us, Mikelo, especially because of our age
[12:37] Arria Perreault: thank you, Tor
[12:37] Soro Dagostino: Past adminsitration have regulated the yellow listings.
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: one thing more
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* but might be afk for a few minutes and miss her call lol
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: oh sorry Tor – I thought you were done
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I have make a point to keep land along the river set for sale as this is very desirable
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: sorr
[12:39] Soro Dagostino: /mr done
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: if gywn is taking a moment can i say something
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: fine for me
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I feel I coud be more agressive in lowering prices, however, I try not to compete with citizens who are selling prarcels.
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: Often they list parcels at a too high of a price
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker nods at that fact.
[12:41] Soro Dagostino agrees
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi wonders why
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: so that is one reason I have been hesitane to post lower prices.
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: It does cost more here, but is there a reason?
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree mik, but even if I get basically tier for he month, that is more than ohters are charging.
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: I´d still like to see land pricing guidelines somewhere
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Chung is selling regions for no money
[12:42] Pip Torok: imo a useful ploy these days is for the seller to ask the buyer what price he will offer, then accept/refuse the offer
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: probably true pip
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I really woudl advise against prices being in the law.
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Agree Tor… Not just Chung. a lot of estate owners are selling for 1 dollar. Presumably the money to be made is in the tier
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker agrees with Pip
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think actual prices should be, but maybe consistency
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker agrees with Tor, too
[12:43] Pip Torok agrees with the Chancellor regarding legislation of prices
[12:43] Fern Leissa: I think we should consider specifing that the Exe branch can set land prices
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: yesI agree with Tor also
[12:44] Arria Perreault raises hand
[12:44] Soro Dagostino: Only limited by true economics of SL.
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I think Mik may be right, a general area that a plot should cost, yes?
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn still seems to be afk – right?
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: *general value
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: Arria?
[12:45] Pip Torok: in fact we are simply reconfirming existing legilation!
[12:45] Arria Perreault: I think that RA and Exec must find a now a common policy about prices fitting to the reality of SL. This said, I think that we need more than a price policy to address our issues
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I think this is esentially an exec issue.
[12:45] Arria Perreault: we have to convaince people that CDS is a place to be
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: My main concern is the arbitrary nature of it
[12:46] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: Soro after Arria is done
[12:46] Arria Perreault: I am done
[12:47] Soro Dagostino: Question for Mikelo
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[12:47] Soro Dagostino: By “Arbitrary” — do you mean making an economic decision?
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: I mean one person settng prices at will
[12:47] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:48] Pip Torok: Mik this is the present legislation…
[12:48] Pip Torok: 1. Land sales in CDS of land owned by the government are conducted by the CDS Executive Branch, using such methods as are reasonably expected to promote the Confederation’s interests, consistent with our laws.
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe you still have the floor, Soro
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: think so also
[12:48] Soro Dagostino: Does Mikelo wish to have pricing decided by a committee?
[12:49] Fern Leissa: How are prices set now? Is Sudane setting lots at the original sale price?
[12:49] Pip Torok sees Soros point
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: If a citizen sells, it will be arbitrary, but I think if the govt sells, there should be some consistency
[12:49] Soro Dagostino: By a committee?
[12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: IMHO, I think that contravenes the provision Pip just stated
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: a price per M, for example
[12:49] Pip Torok: how so Guillaume?
[12:49] Soro Dagostino: By a committee Mikelo?
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: I never said a comittee
[12:50] Soro Dagostino: Then how else?
[12:50] Soro Dagostino: By the RA?
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: That provision states that the power is the Executive’s, so how would this committee be made up?
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: I’m talking about consistency
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: IMO, this power could easily be abused (not saying it is currently)
[12:51] Soro Dagostino: Who says “whats consisten?”
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: imo the RA is not the right place to decide about price per sqm
[12:51] Fern Leissa: I think I’m more concerned with transparency than with consistency… because the market does flucuate. But, we do now want to worry that someone is getting special deals. I’m wondering if it would be a good idea to post sales prices of govt sales???
[12:51] Pip Torok: what committee, Guillaume ? apart from the Exec branch liaising with Rudeen?
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Agreed, Lil
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: The committee that Soro brought up, Pip
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: we could post prices but then you have a privacy issue too
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: yes Fern
[12:52] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:52] Fern Leissa: rl newspapers have posted sales prices… think its ok
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:52] Fern Leissa: or… considered public inf
[12:52] Pip Torok: Guillaume … Soro ASKED whether a hypothetical committee would be better
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: If the prices are listed on the map, where is the privacy?
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand.
[12:52] Soro Dagostino: The same as Fern
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: we postet sales prices in the past and it worked fine
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: (me is still waiting for Gwyn to come back)
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: first, I don’t think we should politicize prices
[12:53] Pip Torok: (come back gwyn! all is forgiven!:)
[12:53] Fern Leissa: hehe’
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: second this is an exec role, it has been according to the law and constitution.
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hear hear.
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: Perhaps no pior chancellor was using the law
[12:54] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm,
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: finally, the treasure is a check within the exec
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: if there were problems I am sure you wall would know
[12:54] Pip Torok: I think Tor has hit the nail on the head …
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Pip
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[12:55] Pip Torok: the law was there but this is the first occasion a Chancellor has made use of it
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: He’s been acting well within his right
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: It doesn’t appear to have been illegal, anyway
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: So that’s the first question
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: And it was within good-nature
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Welcome back, Tor
[12:56] Pip Torok: theres a second question Mik? … or more?
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: Though I think the information about such sales should be kept public
[12:57] Fern Leissa: I agree this is within the Execs area of authority, but I’d still like to see the sales I think. I’m not sure why there is harm in doing that
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: land sales are a matter of public record in RL…
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: Not a privacy issue
[12:57] Pip Torok agrees with Fern though realising the info might take some time to appear
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[12:57] Fern Leissa: CDS sold to X lot blab,blab for L$4000 on 2/5/11
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I have no problem really with that.
[12:58] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: i do note however, that not all sales go through the exe.
[12:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, some are through the owners.
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: those sales would be private transactions anyway
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be of great interest to the exec to know what all prices are. helpful info
[12:59] Soro Dagostino: The property description has a place where that might be done for each parcel.
[12:59] Fern Leissa: agree w/ Mikelo
[12:59] Arria Perreault: (Trebor has started a useful list. This list should be regularly updated)
[12:59] Fern Leissa: We just want to show that our govt is dealing above board
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps, but that info could be useful for the exec in determining the market
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: also it would be nice to know what new citizens we have
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: but not a problem, I will make prices public.
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: we have a new citizen
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Oteth Paderborn
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Otenth
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: would be great if you could tell us about that at the end of any RA meeting in Anouncements
[13:00] Fern Leissa: Do we feel we need to clarify the law by saying specifically “Chancellor can set land prices”?
[13:01] Fern Leissa: That was the issue I think with Rose
[13:01] Pip Torok: on behalf of this meeting I’d like to welcome Oteth Paderborn to CDS
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye, Pip.
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I agree, Fern
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: I think we should vote for that so it´s clear in the future
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: wish we could hear Gwyn first
[13:02] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: Soro
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: so let’s wait for her
[13:02] Soro Dagostino: I think the curren legislation takes care of that.
[13:02] Pip Torok agrees with Soro
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, it does, but to clarify, Soro.
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[13:03] Pip Torok: but if it takes care of that, then we need NOT clarify!
[13:03] Fern Leissa: So we’re thinking we have a non-issue here?
[13:03] Soro Dagostino: Keep it simple.
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I feel the constitution already implies what 9-3 states
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Then why did this come up then, Pip?
[13:03] Pip Torok: yes, i do so believe
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: I think it is clear already
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: because it was not so clear in the past hehe
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Lil.
[13:03] Fern Leissa: Rose asked about it Guillaume
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: The executive postion for this and future chancellors woudl e that a new law is unnecessary
[13:04] Pip Torok: i wish i knew what was in the raiser’s mind …
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: And we have a citizen who has raised concerns over it, because it *wasn’t clear*
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi wonders that, too
[13:04] Pip Torok: no Guillaume I do not agree (with respect)
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: We just need a statement that clarifies the Executive’s power, imo
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Gui
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Than the concerned will know that this is legal, according to the interpretation of this RA’s laws.
[13:05] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: right
[13:05] Pip Torok: imo we have just such a statement and have had since the law was codified
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Soro
[13:05] Soro Dagostino: If you want to change the law — that is your perogative.
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Then how is that this issue has now arised?
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: But if they didn’t read the law, would they read the statement?
[13:06] Soro Dagostino: If you want the law interpreted — that is the function of the SC.
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, normally you read things when they’re addressed to you, Mik
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Agreed, which is my concern too, Soro
[13:06] Pip Torok: because the raiser might just be wishing to sabotage a meeting … though imo this is not the case
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: The concerned knows this government well, why is it that this wasn’t addressed to the SC?
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: (that was a rhetorical question)
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: No, I mean if someone didn’t read the law, why would they read a statement?
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi thinks Pip might be right
[13:07] Soro Dagostino: /if they could find the “statement” . . . lol
[13:07] Pip Torok: ive suggested a possibility already to Guillaume, Mik
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, people don’t read all acts passed by congress, but they read their mail, no? ツ
[13:08] Soro Dagostino: And 2 lines in Twitter.
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: I personally have a problem with this law, it’s too much power in too few hands.
[13:08] Pip Torok: but what is the practical alternative mik?
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: So our ability to sell privately can be taken away at any time?
[13:09] Mikelo Serevi: interesting
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: I didn’t get that when I read the concern, Mik
[13:09] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: that interpretation of the concern, I mean
[13:09] Pip Torok: mik .. this is land belonging to rudeen …
[13:09] Mikelo Serevi: No, that wasn’t part of the concern
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[13:11] Pip Torok: Madame LRA, may I suggest we pass onto the next agenda items?
[13:11] Soro Dagostino: Question for Mickelo
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: If I may, I think that the concerned best send this to the SC, rather than us. We’ve spent an hour on this, when we have more important and pressing matters
[13:11] Soro Dagostino: Yield.
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: what do we want to do with that issue?
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: was that a motion, Pip?
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: table it till the next meeting? or vote for it somehow?
[13:12] Pip Torok: I propose we pass this matter to the SC for their consideration
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: second
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye, agree with Pip.
[13:12] Soro Dagostino: Proponent — Mikelo?
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: well ok
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: Soro?
[13:13] Soro Dagostino: Matters before the SC must have a proponent
[13:13] Soro Dagostino: You?
[13:13] Pip Torok: that must be me then Soro
[13:13] Soro Dagostino: Just be aware.
[13:14] Guillaume Mistwalker wonders why that would not just be Rose
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: maybe I can get a motion to wave Tors land policy trough
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … sorry about that
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: as it seems to be law anyway
[13:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Welcome back Gwyn
[13:14] Pip Torok: because, G, Rose raises it with the RA, and i propose it to the SC
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: you wanted to say something?
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: wb Gwyn
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: the floor is your
[13:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Fair enough, Pip
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m not sure if I have anything to say that you haven’t talked already… it seems to me that there has been no violation of any laws and no abuse of power, and that seems to be pretty clear, and should be our answer
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Gwyn
[13:16] Pip Torok cdnt have put it better himself!
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, we might update this page: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=376 just to explain the procedure better
[13:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, that’s what we’ve decided, and Pip’s sending the matter to the SC
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and seconds Pip
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi agrees with gwyn
[13:17] Guillaume Mistwalker agrees
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: yup
[13:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Especially since that page says Sonja’s still the Chancellor ツ
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeedy
[13:17] Soro Dagostino must say goodbye, RL calls.
[13:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye, Soro
[13:18] Pip Torok: bye Soro!
[13:18] Arria Perreault: bye Soro
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye, Soro
[13:18] Soro Dagostino: Please send the new citizens name to the moderators of the forum — so s/he can be added
[13:18] Fern Leissa: Bye Soro
[13:18] Soro Dagostino: Bye all
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: bye Soro
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: bye soro
[13:20] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[13:20] Pip Torok: while were on that subject can the moderators be aware of raffles resident, another new CDS citizen?
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yes he is pip
[13:20] Pip Torok: thx Tor!
[13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: we have to get used to thos e new names in sl
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: could we come to an end with the land issue somehow?
[13:21] Pip Torok: I propose we move to next business
[13:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe we have, tbh
[13:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: second
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to come to an end with that one first
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: is it going to the SC, then?
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: I thought we did, Lilith
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: you mean vote on Pip’s proposal?
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: we didn´t vote for it
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: but can if you insist
[13:22] Pip Torok: i have proposed the matter to the SC and Soro has appeared to accept that proposal
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: It seems settled
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: anybody in favor to give this to the SC say aye please
[13:22] Pip Torok: aye
[13:22] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: aye
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: nay
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: well ok
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: Pip will bring that issue to the SC than
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: any other citizen concerns?
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: lol
[13:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: Doesn’t seem like it
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope that’s a good sign hehe
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: ok there were Ferns 7day votes
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: the communication commission will not be continued
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: and additions and changes to the Agenda?
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: for me it looks like we might do most of it next weekend
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: RL is pressing a little
[13:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Might I suggest we get 3.A, B, C and D done?
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: I´d be happy not to do to much overtime this time
[13:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: And table the rest?
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine with that
[13:26] Fern Leissa: Can some of these items wait until the next regularly scheduled mtg?
[13:26] Pip Torok: me too
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: This is actually quite a lot
[13:27] Fern Leissa: no overtime. Bad habit and the pay is bad
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: Arria can you give us a Report about your commission?
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn tickles Arria
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh.
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: afk
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: ok
[13:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Move to next?
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we go to 3B then?
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: or you did a vulcan nerve pinch
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: Fern could you give us a report about you commission in the meantime?
[13:29] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:29] Fern Leissa: Sure. Or not ??:)
[13:29] Fern Leissa: Arria is back maybe
[13:29] Arria Perreault: I am back
[13:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Welcome back
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh there you are!
[13:30] Pip Torok is all agog!
[13:30] Arria Perreault: I have called a meeting of the Citizen Commission for next sunday, at noon
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: Arria can you give us your report first?
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: might need less time
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: great
[13:30] Arria Perreault: Citizen Commission
Postby Arria Perreault » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:47 am
The next meeting of the Citizen Commission will be held on Sunday 13th February at noon in the Pratorium of Colonia Nova.
Agenda
– Rules of sponsored location citizenship
– Policy and implementation by the Executive
– Citizen statistics
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds great
[13:31] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:31] Arria Perreault: I have an inofficial statistics based on payment boxes today
[13:31] Arria Perreault: we are less than 70 citizen
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I have found 69 citizen names and 3 alts
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3 alts?????
[13:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: 69 citizens????
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: alts?
[13:32] Arria Perreault: yes, for ex. Mona Schism is the alt of the Monastery
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah lol
[13:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: (and alts too ツ )
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You scared me for a moment, Arria
[13:33] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:33] Arria Perreault: she owns the land, pay the fees, but she is not citizen
[13:33] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: like Rudeen
[13:33] Guillaume Mistwalker nods
[13:33] Arria Perreault: ther is an alt for the MoCA and one for the Guild and Rudeen of course
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[13:33] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “collective citizen”
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: are you done with your report Arria?
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ok
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: we run out of time again hehe
[13:34] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: thank you
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: Fern your report is next
[13:34] Fern Leissa: Ok. Thanks Lilith
[13:34] Fern Leissa: I’ll be brief as I am not yet done with the community meetings
[13:35] Fern Leissa: I’ve held 2 mets about the general CDS covenants
[13:35] Fern Leissa: And 2 mtgs about the Alpine Meadow sim-wide covenant
[13:35] Fern Leissa: I am getting ready to set up meetings for the Monastery sim
[13:35] Fern Leissa: I do want to talk to Arria though, I’d like to make
[13:36] Fern Leissa: sure I pick a time she could come
[13:36] Fern Leissa: I’ve posted the transcripts and summarys up to the forum
[13:36] Fern Leissa: I’m hopefull I’ll get some more comments
[13:37] Fern Leissa: Once I’mdone holding sim specific meetings, I hope to draft a set of covenants
[13:37] Fern Leissa: General CDS and one for each of the sims… and have 2 more meetings to go over the draft
[13:37] Fern Leissa: before posting to the forum
[13:37] Fern Leissa: I’d love to get more input…. but
[13:38] Fern Leissa: That’s it for now… unless you want me to talk about some of the issues
[13:38] Fern Leissa: that have come up so far
[13:39] Mikelo Serevi has been reading the transcripts, slowly
[13:39] Fern Leissa:
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: maybe you could give us a more detailed Report about the issues next sunday
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: hopefully we will have more time then
[13:39] Fern Leissa: I could do that if that would be helpful… next Sunday?
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: yes as we have to finish this meetings agenda
[13:40] Arria Perreault: I though RA is every 2 weeks
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: if we are able to finish the agenda yes
[13:40] Fern Leissa: Ok. Detailed report of major issues/changes suggested so far
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn, the decission wether to continue the Election commission or not is still pending
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Might I suggest writing one up and sending it/publishing it for the next meeting and post it on the forum, Fern? to save time
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: could you give us a short summary wether there are pending issues
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: and if you´d suggest to continue it
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should say that there is nothing worth discussing at the Election Commission *right now*, but there might be… in a few months
[13:42] Fern Leissa: Yes.. just thinking about that Guillaume. Good idea
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I’d be fine in shutting it down for now; and reopen, if there is a need, at the appropriate time
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: sounds good for me
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, wait…
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have an issue, I think, that the commission could address
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which one? lol
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Last election, the run-off, started off a day or two late
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean which commission; not which issue…
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Could the commission address that issue, allocating powers to other people who can control the election system?
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: wish we could make laws against tecnical problems
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The commission has no power to allocate power to other people, much less who can control elections… haha
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I know what you mean, Gui ㋡
[13:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, yes, but — ah, ok ツ
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker shrugs, “Just a though”
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMh. I’d be certainly fine in addressing that, but as Lilith pointed out, we cannot legislate to make “technical problems” unlawful ㋡
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: *+t
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, yes
[13:45] Pip Torok: But if something we cd recommend popped into gwyn’s head…./
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: But it can make a law that makes a committee that regulates the system
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: According to Delia, the issue wasn’t the system, but that Jamie couldn’t get on to put out the ballot box
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that was an old discussion… the Permanent Standing Election Commission, a body to ‘regulate’ and ‘oversee’ the whole election procedure….
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, Gui, point taken, that’s worth discussing, yes
[13:46] Lilith Ivory feels the need to create blue caps
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok ツ
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just afraid that I won’t have much time until the end of February…
[13:47] Pip Torok wonders whats happening at the end of february
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: end of february will be here pretty soon
[13:48] Fern Leissa whispers: Chocolates are finally finished
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt coffee is finished.
[13:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Make some more then ツ
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: well …
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: shouldn’t more caffeine be a happy face?
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: can we vote for continuing or discontinuing this commission or do we need more disscussion?
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: preferably not about chocolade and coffee
[13:50] Pip Torok suggests we vote
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: can I have a motion please
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: I propose that we continue this commission
[13:50] Pip Torok: I propose the Commission be suspended until a recommendation by gwyn to resume
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn would you be willing to stay chair?
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. Sure…
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: any second for Guis motion?
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless someone else would like to be chair during this term
[13:51] Mikelo Serevi: we could continue, but have the commission inactiveuntil later…
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: or any second for Pips motion?
[13:52] Pip Torok: Sorry madame LRA … please disregard my proposal until gui’s is decided
[13:52] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd on gui’s
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: ok then
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: all in favor to continue the Election commission say aye please
[13:53] Pip Torok: nay
[13:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nay
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: oh hell
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[13:53] Fern Leissa: nay
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: gez
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: ok seems like this commission is discontinued for now
[13:54] Pip Torok: so no need for my proposal then …
[13:54] Pip Torok: ?
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: if it is needed later we can porpose it any time
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course!
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Finance commission?
[13:55] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: do we want to talk about it now or table it till next sunday?
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi has to go
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[13:56] Fern Leissa: Bye Mikelo
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: I´d prefer to come to RA members concerns and announcements
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn would prefer to table everything since I’m anxious to return back to my work on the other computer
[13:56] Pip Torok: bye Mik
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Table it I’d say, then.
[13:56] Arria Perreault: bye mikelo
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: ok
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: bye mikelo
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: bye mik
[13:56] Pip Torok: if Tor’s afk .. lets table!
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: let´s come to RA members concerns
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: are there any?
[13:57] Pip Torok: one ….
[13:57] Fern Leissa: none for me
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: one Pip?
[13:57] Pip Torok: remember the shortage of candidates we had at the lst election
[13:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm?
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:58] Pip Torok: i want to frame a possible solyution to this and wd welcome ANY input from all CDS citizens
[13:58] Pip Torok: (and friends of CDS)
[13:58] Pip Torok: with a view to putting something forwaRD for the next meeting
[13:59] Fern Leissa: So you’d like us to think about this and come up with something… or you have an idea?
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: good
[13:59] Pip Torok: the first, fern
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: do you want me to set it on the Agenda?
[13:59] Fern Leissa: kk
[13:59] Pip Torok: then I’ll add my tuppeny-worth
[13:59] Pip Torok: not yet, if you please ..
[14:00] Guillaume Mistwalker wonders why we just voted down the commission meant to deal with such
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn *yawns*
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: ok just let me know in time so I can bring it on the agenda
[14:00] Pip Torok: will let you know if we have anything substantial
[14:00] Lilith Ivory giggles
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: we can renew this commission any time
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: even now hehe
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have no concerns
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry folks… I do really apologise, but unfortunatelymy time is really a it constrained these days (as said, until the end of February), and I really need to go now
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: cu gwyn
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: see you gwyn
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Gwyn ツ
[14:01] Arria Perreault: bye bye Gwyn ㋡
[14:01] Fern Leissa: bye Gwyn
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’ll take your leave…. have fun
[14:01] Pip Torok: cheers Gwyn
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: and I’m really out this time
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Gwyn
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Mik
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi:
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Mik
[14:01] Pip Torok: cheers Mik
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: any Announcements?
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I hve one
[14:02] Arria Perreault raises hands
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: Tor and Arria next
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Just want to point out that Anna has created a blog for CDS
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: it is mainly to highligh land and why we are a great place to live in SL.
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: and she is looking for contributors
[14:03] Arria Perreault: good idea ㋡
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: http://cdstheblog.blogspot.com/
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: great idea
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: Arria?
[14:04] You decline white anda from A group member named pat Zessinthal.
[14:05] Arria Perreault: Congratulations to Anna. If I can help, I am willing to contribute
[14:05] Arria Perreault: I want to remind two meetings on next sunday
[14:06] Arria Perreault: I hope it’s work with our calendar, as I thought that RA meets every 2 weeks
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: great
[14:06] Arria Perreault: The next meeting of the Citizen Commission will be held on Sunday 13th February at noon in the Pratorium of Colonia Nova.
[14:06] Arria Perreault: The next meeting of the Roman Sims Regional Committee will be held on Sunday 13th February at 9 am in the public place of Locus Amoenus.
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: would you all be willing to hold the RA meeting at 9am than?
[14:07] Arria Perreault: On 14th February, the Monastery will open its new exhibition
[14:07] Fern Leissa: Huum. I’d like to attend the Regional mtg in LA
[14:07] Pip Torok: i would be happy to
[14:07] Arria Perreault: about LOVE
[14:07] Arria Perreault: I am working hard to build it now
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: oops sorry Imissread lol
[14:08] Lilith Ivory: I tried to find a time that does NOT colide with the regional commission
[14:08] Fern Leissa:
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I though that RA was every 2 weeks, that’s why I used this day
[14:08] Arria Perreault: RA has the priority
[14:08] Fern Leissa: I’m going to suggest we do meet in 2 weeks
[14:08] Lilith Ivory: if we get our agenda done it is everytwo weeks but we have to finish this one :9
[14:09] Fern Leissa: It feels like we dealt with the most pressing issues
[14:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: I suggest we meet next Saturday at noon…
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Gui
[14:09] Pip Torok: me too
[14:09] Fern Leissa: ok. I think I can make that
[14:09] Arria Perreault: I can make the meeting at 10:30
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: I think we are fine with noon
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: I think the RRC can stay at 9:30
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: so you have time enough for your meeting
[14:10] Pip Torok: i can make any Sunday meeting from 9am to 1pm
[14:10] Arria Perreault: reg committe at 9:00; Citizen commission at 10:30
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Saturdays are best for me, tbh
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, ok
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Sounds good ツ
[14:11] Arria Perreault: (and no dinner for Arria )
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: I´ll provide cookies at the praetorium
[14:11] Fern Leissa: Ok. So when is the RA meeting? day/time?
[14:11] Arria Perreault: great ㋡
[14:11] Tor Karlsvalt: oooo good
[14:11] Tor Karlsvalt: chocolate chip
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: Sunday the 13th at noon
[14:12] Fern Leissa: kk
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: I´ll post the time today at forum and google
[14:12] Pip Torok must remember to brings his rabbits foot as its the 13th!
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, it’s not Friday the 13th
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: not a friday
[14:13] Pip Torok: just as well! ….
[14:13] Arria Perreault: it’s the day before Valentine’s
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: do we have more announcements or can we move to adjourn?
[14:13] Fern Leissa: nooo rabbit’s foot or we’ll send PETA to get you
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: oh wonderful
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: nice
[14:13] Pip Torok: move to adjourn
[14:14] You decline Gem Patron Auction @ Night from A group member named Marcus Benedict.
[14:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: second
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: all in favor vote aye please
[14:14] Pip Torok: aye
[14:14] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt wishes for the second time today that he made that MM for the kissing booth.
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:14] Fern Leissa: What hehe. MM?
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: Gui?
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: midnight madness
[14:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye, sorry
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: the meeting is adjourned
[14:15] Fern Leissa:
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[14:15] Arria Perreault: thank you, Lilith ㋡
[14:15] Lilith Ivory claps
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: thank you all

Permalink.

RA Meeting 13 February 2011

Transcript RA Meeting February 13
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:51 pm
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Pip
[12:01] Pip Torok: hi lilith
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: gez I suffer from terrible headache today
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: hope you guys have mercy with me hehe
[12:02] Pip Torok: oh no … will you be alright?
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: I´ll survive
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: hopefully it won´t be a long meeting
[12:02] Pip Torok: i’ll put on my special TLC voice … ;|
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: TLC?
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Alexia
[12:02] Alexia Carnell: Hya
[12:02] Pip Torok: tender-lovin’-care
[12:02] Pip Torok: hi Alexia
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: hehe I see
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: it´s not the voice it´s the words Pip
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: hi Sorro
[12:03] Pip Torok: speak softly alexia .. Lilith has a headache …
[12:03] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[12:03] Pip Torok: hi Soro
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: yup and am looking forward to have a calm and peaceful meeting
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: Hi Fern, Hi Cindy
[12:04] Soro Dagostino: Hello Fern
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Pip
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: HI Gwyn
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi Gwyn
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: looks like we have a quorum already
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: should we start with citizens concerns or wait a little longer
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[12:05] Cindy Ecksol is happy to be a part of it for a change
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should warn you, though, I will need to be afk for a while… dinner time sadly takes precedence! But I’ll try to stay around for as long as I can…
[12:06] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at Pip and feels positively underdressed!
[12:07] Pip Torok: some might feel that a very good thing!
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[12:07] Cindy Ecksol is afk for a minute or three…
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: reading the forum post I am thinking it might be a good idea to bring the land issue on the agenda again
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: what are you guys thinking?
[12:07] Pip Torok: whatever you think best …
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine if you’re fine ㋡
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: I´m just the humble servant of the rea´st of you
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn *blows kiss*
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: but I think it was wrong to rush through it
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: my bad
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: shoult we start with citizens concenrs now?
[12:09] Pip Torok: ok
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: Gui said he might be a little late
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: any concerns?
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: agenda should be in the box
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: No concerns??
[12:12] Lilith Ivory smiles at all the happy citizens
[12:13] Fern Leissa:
[12:13] Alexia Carnell smiles back just to show she’s alive
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe — btw, the Guild meeting yesterday was very productive!
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: I was sorry I didn´t realize in time there was one
[12:13] Cindy Ecksol is back
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: was it postet somewhere it would happen?
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: wb Cindy
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gui will be happy, the Guild is considering his airport
[12:14] Soro Dagostino: It is.
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right… it was just announced on the forums, and the transcript should be up (I haven’t checked)
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (besides the rest)
[12:14] Pip Torok: they are up gwyn
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: airport?? yikes hehe
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: hope it´s roman or alpine themed
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is really not a “citizen’s concern”, just sort of a in informal report
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *an
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: I´m happy to learn the guild is back to life
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: I was wondering how to keep an airport in the theme without getting flintsone-y
[12:15] Soro Dagostino: Acient Rome was a little earlier than Michelango [sp] [12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very good idea hehe — but, you see Mikelo…
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: hey, the romans would have had an airport if they’d thought of it….
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the “Alpine” sims, by covenant, are allowed to have “post-modern buildings”
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: and of course the Greeks had Icarus….
[12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. like the MoCA, the bridge, and so forth
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: yea was about to say that
[12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Cindy, right!
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: so they NEEDED an airport
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:16] Soro Dagostino: Uphill or downhill landings?
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sun lotion!
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: or have conquered one
[12:16] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: ok as nobody is concerned ….
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re all happy, Lilith! haha
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m also sure that Romans didn’t have fancy shop vendors…
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: has anybody additions or changes to the agenda
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: hehehe
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: of course they did, Gwyn! Roman themed, of course…..
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[12:17] Lilith Ivory loves Gwyns laugh
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: yes!
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn has to go away for a bit… I’ll come back asap
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: you raised your hand?
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: The guild discussed a request that we close the sides of NFS and AM which are open to Garnata.
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:18] Pip Torok: bon apetit gwyn
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like the RA consiser a small amendment to he budget
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: sure
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: allowing for one month, 2000 lindedn to be moved from the Chancellors’ events to a building fund.
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: The Guild charged Rosie Gray with the job of devising a plan to close he sims.
[12:19] Pip Torok: for what purpose, Tor?
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: For that she will need approx 2000 linden.
[12:19] Pip Torok: ah .. thank you
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: close, as in build a wall?
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Mikelo, or probably a screen.
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Seems the best way to do this
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: I also add that if successful, we would be able to do the same to Monastery sim.
[12:21] Cindy Ecksol: one nice-sized megaprim ought to do the trick
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I noticed a bit of a mismatch at the joining there, and they seem to be growing around the side of CDS too
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, not only garnata is affected, but also Gonzaga
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: it was rather expensive to relocate next to them in the first place?
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: maybe we could consider moving bacl
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: but if we put an island off LA, the same issue would ariise.
[12:22] Pip Torok: well we wd need to look at what costs might be involved
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: c’mon folks, it’s been funny=looking for a long time, let’s just do it.
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: it’s not like we don’t have the available funds
[12:22] Fern Leissa: agree with Cindy
[12:22] Pip Torok: how much wd it be?
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: Pip, Tor is asking for 2000L
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry was afk
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: you just asked him “what for?”
[12:23] Pip Torok: ok ..
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: it’s for closing off the sims.
[12:23] Pip Torok: im happy woth 2000
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: move that we authorize Tor to fund the Guild planning to close off the sim
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: sure, but they might put up another at the edge too
[12:24] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: what did you second Pip?
[12:24] Pip Torok: cindys motion
[12:24] Cindy Ecksol: my motion to approve tor’s request for 2000L
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: to vote for Tors request to move 2k from events to building ?
[12:24] Pip Torok: “move that etc2
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: ops sorry, missed that
[12:25] Cindy Ecksol: shall we vote Lil?
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: anybody in favor for Cindys motion say aye please
[12:25] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:25] Pip Torok: aye
[12:25] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:26] Lilith Ivory is waiting for Mikelo and Gwyn
[12:26] Fern Leissa: Think Gwyn is afk. Said she was taking a quick break
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: yup
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: Mikelo??
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: sry, I was looking up how much to move a sim
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: I think we should just move…
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it is about $150.00 usd
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: per sim
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: we could consider moving the sims seperatley
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: I think you’re right
[12:28] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: at the moment we are only voting for 2k building expenses
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Possilby we could have that waived, esp if we added a sim.
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but it mght have to abutt Garnata.
[12:28] Fern Leissa: just for the record… independently of AA’s request.. I’d like to close the sides. Been bugging me for a long time
[12:28] Soro Dagostino: You have stated the question Madame chair, yeild
[12:28] Pip Torok: mikelo .. this is a motion for putting up a screen
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol nodds in agreement with Fern
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi: I know
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: excuse me soro, what do you mean?
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: I´m a little slow todayas I suffer from a headache
[12:30] Soro Dagostino: The matter has been voted upon.
[12:30] Soro Dagostino: Debate is closed.
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: so did we approve Tor’s request?
[12:30] Pip Torok: we did, cindy
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: yup about moving 2k with in Tors budget
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: looks like
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: looks like it but Gwyn and Gui still have to vote
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: i think so.
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: i will let Rosie know so she can get to work.
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: yes counting says we voted for it
[12:31] Cindy Ecksol: ok, great…what’s next?
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: think we should table Arrias report till she is here hehe
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: Fern do you have anything about the Covenant commission?
[12:33] Fern Leissa: Huum. Maybe really quickly. I just need a couple of minutes
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:33] Fern Leissa: kk
[12:33] Fern Leissa: The scroll on the table has notecards for the current drafts for the General Covenant and The Alpine Meadow covenant
[12:34] Fern Leissa: if you haven’t seen them on the forum
[12:34] Fern Leissa: We’re still in progress and need more community meetings
[12:34] Fern Leissa: next is for LA.
[12:34] Fern Leissa: But this should give you and idea where we’re going so far
[12:34] Fern Leissa: A couple of big issues…
[12:34] Fern Leissa: Land ownership limitations
[12:35] Fern Leissa: We’ve all talked about the importance of limitations (in the meetings)
[12:35] Fern Leissa: but we remain stuck with the fact that group ownership
[12:35] Fern Leissa: limits are not enforcable
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: this has been a problem for a while
[12:35] Fern Leissa: And one of the major reasons for the covenant rewrites was
[12:35] Fern Leissa: to come up with enforceable covenants.
[12:36] Fern Leissa: Any thoughs on this would be very welcome
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: welcome Ranma
[12:36] Ranma Tardis: hi
[12:36] Fern Leissa: The other two issues are clubs
[12:36] Fern Leissa: and the limitation on merchants that they be within sim theme
[12:37] Fern Leissa: For clubs part of the question is… what exactly is limited here, what qualifies as a club
[12:37] Fern Leissa: And as far as the theme limitation on goods, merchants are the ones most concerned
[12:37] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:37] Fern Leissa: They are the ones telling me this is not a good idea
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: Soro after Fern is done
[12:38] Fern Leissa: Those are the main things Lilith
[12:38] Fern Leissa: Just let me say
[12:38] Fern Leissa: next meetings will be Feb 22 @ 4 pm slt andFeb 26 @ 9am slt
[12:38] Fern Leissa: We’ll be talking about the LA covenants
[12:38] Fern Leissa: Done
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: thank you Fern
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: great work so far
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:39] Soro Dagostino: I’d like the group membership be as expensive at a ration of the tier.
[12:40] Soro Dagostino: Membership & citizenship should not be free.
[12:40] Soro Dagostino: With some minimum cost . . . set by CDS.
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: under the current law, it is
[12:40] Fern Leissa: huum. Not sure I’m following yu Soro.
[12:40] Pip Torok: nor me Soro
[12:41] Soro Dagostino: If one joins a “club” that is 0L$.
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: teh citizenship bills covers this, though the commission was going to work on it further
[12:41] Soro Dagostino: Do they get citizenship.
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: aren´t the group invites used to bring vict ….uhm interested people here?
[12:41] Pip Torok: “club”??
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: FYI, under current law, group member citizenship is $100.00 per month and will increase to $250.00 linden per month at the end of NEXT term.
[12:41] Soro Dagostino: kk
[12:42] Soro Dagostino: $100 L$?
[12:42] Ranma Tardis: raises hand
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: Ramna after Soro is done
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: yes sorry, it is $L100.oo lindend until the end of NEXT term
[12:42] Soro Dagostino: Or, $100 USD?
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Linden
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: which law specifies the 100L?
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: you´re talking about that sponsoring citizenship right?
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: ym the citizenship law that has yet to be posted to the forum.
[12:43] Soro Dagostino: Whether it is a partnership or a club.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: 13-something , i think 9.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: i forgot at the moment.
[12:43] Pip Torok is puzzled by “partnership” and “club” …
[12:44] Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: Ranma first, than Soro
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry it is CDSL 13-10
[12:44] Ranma Tardis: oh question answered
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[12:45] Soro Dagostino: To answer Pip
[12:45] Soro Dagostino: A “Partnership” is buying a partial interest in a parcel of land.
[12:45] Soro Dagostino: A “club” obtaining citizen rights by joining a club that owns property in CDS.
[12:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: :/
[12:47] Pip Torok: ok but wd like to see the laws that use this phraseology
[12:47] Soro Dagostino: I think the law should.
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: that’s that i was asking, I know about arria’s one
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: it covers these items, but not using those terms
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I was wrong it is posted to the portal at http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=425
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: isn´t that part of what Arria did last term?
[12:47] Pip Torok: with respect, not the point … its important to state what we mean
[12:48] Pip Torok: thank you Tor
[12:48] Fern Leissa: So Soro, since we are talking about clubs.. what is your understanding of the prohibition of clubs in the current CDS covenants that you’ll find in the about land tab
[12:48] Pip Torok: exactly, Soro
[12:48] Fern Leissa: It that referring to club membership in a CDS group
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: I thought he meant dance clubs
[12:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: me too mikelo
[12:49] Lilith Ivory: thought so also
[12:49] Fern Leissa: or are we talking about prohibiting pole dancing clubs.
[12:49] Fern Leissa: Ok. I think that is part of what people are unclear about
[12:49] Soro Dagostino: Arias was doing what I object to.
[12:49] Soro Dagostino: Bringing in “citizens” to vote who had joined his clubs.
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: you’re talking about group ownership?
[12:50] Pip Torok: Arias, Soro?
[12:50] Soro Dagostino: Not really.
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: I see
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: well,legally, you have to pay for some land to be a citizen
[12:50] Soro Dagostino: And that is as it should be.
[12:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: as it should be ! mikelo
[12:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no land/ no vote
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure it was clear before
[12:51] Fern Leissa: Right Mikelo.
[12:51] Fern Leissa: But in terms of the covenant
[12:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: (if i may, as a non citizen, there was a time when a person could sell their land and continue to pay sudane 100 L a month to keep citizenship)
[12:52] Soro Dagostino: Or if the “club” that owns land, and can make you a citizen, charges nothing for to its membership.
[12:52] Fern Leissa: We don’t know how MUCH land I gave to group x, so don’t know if I’ve reached my parcel/ m2 limit
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: I still don’t know where the law says one could do that
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: to bad Arria isn´t there to answer as she chairs that commission
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: she might not have expected a meeting, we did meet last week
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: me raises hand.
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: we talked about having this one while Arria was here
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:54] Pip Torok is highly unhappy that “club” appears to be used as a sinonym for “group” and hopes for eventual disambiguation
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I think mikelo makes a good point.
[12:54] Fern Leissa:
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Pip
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t knwo where in the law it says that we have to account for how a person is using their limit allotment
[12:54] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I think you are right Tor..
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: but that is what I have been TOlD was gthe practice.
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: now to me this just adds to why the practice is really unenforcalbe
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: I think we should table discussing about citizenship for now as it is off topic
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: The exec would have to keep some sort of ledger as to where a person is putting their allotment
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: would fit better when Arria is here next time to give report of her commission
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: This is something the citizenship commission was going to talk about
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: just see endless arguments
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: right Mikelo
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, the extra administration is an issue, Tor
[12:56] Fern Leissa: Sorry Tor. So what are you suggesting w/ respect to enforcment of land ownership limits?
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: I do agree
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: I think we should talk about this next time and come to the next point of the agenda now
[12:57] Fern Leissa: kk
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: oh fern, I think the tier is high enough that there is not much of a problem
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: the question is should we continue the finance commission
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: wb Gwyn
[12:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: arria just came on line, FYI
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: yes I saw
[12:59] Pip Torok: are we all aware of the purpose of the Finance commission … itll help us come to a decision imo
[12:59] Lilith Ivory wonders if we ever come so far to vote aye or nay about the finnance commision hehe
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: Tor can you give us a short summary what your commission did?
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: and wether you think it should be continued?
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[13:01] Cindy Ecksol: sorry folks, need to reboot….back shortly…
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: Arria just told me she is not able to come today
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw. Ok.
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Tor seems afk’ish…
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: sigh
[13:04] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: Rl maybe
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: ok no
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: just my usual spacy self.
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: ok no?
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: oh
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: i missed that bit
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, well we met probably about six times
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: we broghet two bill
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: one to shore up collections
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: and anohter to ask the ng for a map to reparcel AH2
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: we also talked a bit about tier.
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: there is sentiment in CDS to lower tier.
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: we did not have any concrete plan however.
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lower tier…. mmh
[13:07] Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: so you think we should keep working on that?
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: Soro after Tor is done
[13:07] Soro Dagostino: Yield — that was my question
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: For the record our tier is high, but not too much higher than Calendon or Fruit island and others
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Now one can argue that we have a large reserve, and we do not have events like many ohter sims.
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: don
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[13:09] Lilith Ivory: thank you Tor
[13:09] Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
[13:09] Lilith Ivory: Soro?
[13:09] Soro Dagostino: Q not answered . . .
[13:09] Soro Dagostino: Tor, do you think the Finance Commission can help resolve the issues?
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I think it was a good experience
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry again.
[13:11] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: i think the issues should always be discussed to keep the RA informed.
[13:11] Soro Dagostino: From that, can we conclude the Commission should continue?
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Tor
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: even if nothing needs to change.
[13:11] Pip Torok: Tor, is it your opinion that the finance Commission continue?
[13:12] Lilith Ivory likes to have an informed RA
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it should. It can be a forum to discuss how we run CDS. Naturally it is an RA commission.
[13:12] Pip Torok: thank you
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: it could also provide the RA oversight if necessary.
[13:13] Fern Leissa: I would be happier if we had a more specific mission to continue a comission
[13:13] Fern Leissa: Do we want to study actual tier rates in similar sims?
[13:13] Pip Torok agrees with Fern
[13:13] Fern Leissa: I’m wondering if Soro is asking if we don’t want to resolve the issue
[13:14] Fern Leissa: are we or are we not too expensive
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: we could also form a commission about Land issues ….
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Well frankly the exec can do that also, and Trebor has been doing that.
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: tier and land prices for example
[13:14] Fern Leissa: That’s true Tore
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: I am always nosing around too.
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:14] Fern Leissa: but do we want some sort of written report/findings?
[13:14] Fern Leissa: Some recommendation?
[13:14] Mikelo Serevi: It would be helpful to set a regular scale for tier and sale prices
[13:15] Lilith Ivory likes everything that is writen somewhere
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Mikelo
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I really don’t thnk prices should be in the law.
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: but tier is like taxes to me
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: RA sets the taxes.
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to have a commission talking about that issues
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: tier looks like a property tax indeed…
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[13:17] Pip Torok: i feel its a shame to yoke _sale price_ and _tier_ together as a “regular scale”
[13:17] Fern Leissa: I make a mission that we have a comission to examine tier and land prices and report their findings back to the RA
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Fern
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: putting land prices in the law wouldn’t be practical
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: yay!
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: do we need more discussion about that?
[13:18] Pip Torok: agree with you Mik, unlike _tier_ …
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: or can we vote for it already?
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi is ready to vote
[13:19] Pip Torok: can someone state the motion please?
[13:19] Mikelo Serevi: fern did
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: ok all in favour for having a commission to examine tier and land prices and report their findings back to the RA say aye please
[13:20] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:20] Pip Torok: aye
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn seems to be afk again
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: seems like we will have that commission
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: even if Gui Gwyn and Cindy still have a vote
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: we forgot to ask who would be heading it
[13:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: anybody willing to chair it?
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: I assumed Tor is too busy
[13:22] Soro Dagostino: I suggest Sudane
[13:22] Fern Leissa: woops. Didn’t think about that. Mikelo?
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: if we don´t find somebody now we can post on the forum
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: I would, but I just can’t right now
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think the Chancellor should chair an RA commission.
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: I´m sure we will find a victim
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: there seems to be a lot of interest in that subject
[13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops … a belated ‘aye’ although I don’t volunteer to chair that hehe
[13:23] Fern Leissa: Citizens can chair an RA comission. Is that right Lilith?
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: heheh
[13:23] Pip Torok: yes, fern
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: Gwyn answered my question before I could ask hehe
[13:23] Fern Leissa: tx
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: I found that somewhere in the old RA laws
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: it´s allowed
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: I went to the attic to look for RA procedures hehe
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[13:24] Fern Leissa: Sudane might be a good person, just because of all her experience… if she has time
[13:25] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would certainly second Sudane…
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh even Sonja or Arria…
[13:25] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: I´m sure we will find someone
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: can we move to the next point?
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure…
[13:26] Pip Torok: certainly
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: moving right along today
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: 14 days ago there were some questions about our content archivist
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: that´s why it is on the agenda
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha yes
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: this is the law text one not the building structure one?
[13:28] Pip Torok: can you remind us as to what the questions were?
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: we wanted to have some info about this office
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: Tor can you enlighten us?
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: it´s a possition held by an Alt right?
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry agian
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: well the content archivis is actually an SC appointment
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: and works with the chancellor.
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: to my knowledge the CA has not created the required alt. but I have yet to really determine that myself.
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: I thought the alt has been around for ages
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: since the time of some unfortunate deletions
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: not sure Mik, don’t thnk so
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=212 (N. Content Archivist)
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *B
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: that was the reason for the law establishing the CA.
[13:32] Pip Torok: We seem to have a problem … some of us think of the CA as holding records of laws, and others as holding the CDS structures
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe yes.
[13:32] Pip Torok: can we have clarity on this?
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: The CA only olds builds
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The CA is responsible for conserving and managing backup copies of public CDS content.”
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: holds
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: That’s why I asked, there is Cindy, who does the laws, and the alt who holds builds
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: we tend to mix the role of RA archivist with the role of content archivist sometimes as it seems
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and backup copies.
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really?? ^^
[13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We shouldn’t confuse both! They have little to do with each other!
[13:34] Pip Torok: exactly, gwyneth!
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: exactly Gwyn
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: yet I don’t think any of us know the alt who is the CA.
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: lol that´s why I wantet to talk about it for a little while
[13:34] Fern Leissa: So we have no CA?
[13:34] Fern Leissa: currently?
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: yes we do have a CA
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: we wondered if that Alt couldn´t hold items used for events also
[13:35] Fern Leissa: Who is….?
[13:35] Pip Torok: in that case, could we not have an “official!” CDS alt to hold them?
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In theory that would be possible, Lilith… content is content, temporary or permanent….
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the last CA I remember was ALiasi, right?
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: is was looking for the correct spelling
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Aliasi Stonebende
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: r
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: and she get´s paid for doing what?
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: no the CA is not supposed to be a member of any land management group
[13:36] Fern Leissa: Is Aliasi still serving as CA?
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she wasn’t removed by the RA…. yes
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a “role for life until removed”
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Right, now I think it was the chancellor who wold have had to ensure that the alt and the agreement were carried out.
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: interesting
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (don’t you love the civil service? )
[13:38] Pip Torok: this seems to reinforce the argument of having a n alt/bot instead of a person to hold important content
[13:38] Fern Leissa: So we are confident that someone is taking responsible action on a regular basis with respect to our “content”… i hope.
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: well we have not built much lately.
[13:38] Fern Leissa: kk What I want to hear
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Fern… of course it’s the role of the Chancellor to check if the CA is acting responsibly
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I will get in contact with Aliasi and see what is going on.
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I know i sign he check every month.
[13:39] Fern Leissa: Ok. Figuring it out. Thanks Gwyn
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or, if we don’t think that the Chancellor is doing a good job as ‘overseer’, we can also ask the Dean of the SC to check
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: still it might be helpful for all PIOs to have some Alt who is able to hold non transferable items needed for events
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:40] Fern Leissa: I’m sure he is
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (mind you, Tor, I think you are just listing our options here )
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I understand
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: well, he did bring the matter up, so he is paying attention…
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi:
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh heh
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: Frankly I think this one ahs flallen though the cracks for a long time
[13:40] Pip Torok: an alt is never missing or absent, i notice!
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: and prolly nothing is wrong.
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, like in 2006, Tor
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: we just haven’t dotted the i and crossed the t
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: but his is more of an issue as we work on the new schloss
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: and we need to iron it out before we actually have new content to archive.
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: think so too
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totaly agree
[13:42] Pip Torok: agree
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: so what to do about it now?
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: um I can just report on it at the next meeting
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: yea sounds like an idea
[13:43] Pip Torok: I propose the Chancellor approach sudane on this issue
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt thinks the cds action items keep piling up.
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: sudane?
[13:44] Pip Torok: and come back with a recommendation
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks Tor is right
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: wb Cindy
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: um sudane really isn’t involved with the CA.
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: wb cindy
[13:44] Pip Torok: no but if we choose an alt, sudane cd hold the passwords
[13:45] Cindy Ecksol waves and apologizes
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: I’d swear there is an alt, and I knew the name once
[13:45] Pip Torok: in which case we ressurect it, Mik!
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: I think it´s a good idea to let tor report us next meeting :9
[13:45] Cindy Ecksol: there is an alt that holds the reserves — is that th eone you mean?
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: no the CA alt
[13:46] Pip Torok: no … one to hold the structures
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: we shoulodn´t mix this Alt with the Content imo
[13:46] Mikelo Serevi agrees with lilith
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: oh no! it should be a separate alt.
[13:46] Mikelo Serevi: also, using an alt would avoid permissions problems
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: absolutely
[13:47] Pip Torok: exactly, Mik
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and one more point
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: well, let Tor tell us more about it next time and move to RA member concerns now
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: all ok with that?
[13:47] Pip Torok: ok by me
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Moon and the NG made a point to state that builds should be paid for and transferred to the CA.
[13:48] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Presumable we don’t mean that Aliasi should get everythign but the CA alt.
[13:48] Pip Torok: no, Tor!
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: let´s talk more about it next time
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: I´m not in the mood for doing overtime today hehe
[13:49] Pip Torok: yes, Lilith!
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: do we want to have a meeting next sunday or in 14 days?
[13:50] Pip Torok: i plump for 14 daYS TIME
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: I don´t mind to have a sunday off also
[13:50] Fern Leissa: 14 days for me too… better
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain; I’m fine either way
[13:51] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:51] Mikelo Serevi: 14 is good
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: didn´t you want to hold townhall meetings
[13:51] Cindy Ecksol: I abstain — I will be in Europe (somewhere) both weeks
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: so let´s have our next meeting in 14 days
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Cindy
[13:51] Fern Leissa:
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: gives Tor more time to do research
[13:51] Pip Torok: yup!
[13:51] Cindy Ecksol: sorry, not portugal this time (again)
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s also fairer for Tor
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: and me to find a victim for the commission
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (right, Cindy hehe )
[13:52] Cindy Ecksol: I really do aim to get there someday….
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: gee thanks
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: ok any RA member concerns?
[13:52] Cindy Ecksol: one favor to ask…
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: yes Cindy?
[13:52] Cindy Ecksol: as the RA archivist, I need a little help
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I have one thing after Cindy too…
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: how can we help you Cindy?
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: it is very difficult for me to review transcripts and accurately pull out all of the items passed
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: could we possible create a summary for each meeting so that i at least know what to look for?
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh good idea hehe
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Assuming Lilith agrees
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: also if there is text for a particular bill, I need someone to send me a copy of the final text
[13:54] Pip Torok supports Cindy in this request
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: I do of course
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: pulling THAT out is REALLY a pain!
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: did it for last term, but have hardly started on this term….
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: might take me a while to do that myself
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: heh heh! and you were here for those meetings!!
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: as I have a hard time even to post an agenda in time at the moment
[13:55] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Good evening… pardon my drastic tardiness…
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll keep working on it and hopefully hav ethis term to date updated this week. but could use that summary as a check….
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: and from this meeting forward if we could do it as we go, it would be VERY helpful
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Gui!)
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: ok I promisse to do my best
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: hi Gui
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: (Hi Gwyn & Lil! ㋡ )
[13:56] Pip Torok: hi Gui
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Pip ㋡
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: You had something also Gwyn?
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes. This is about one of the proposals for the budget — advertising
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to know if anything has been done on that regard
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn wants to see the CDS *everywhere* hehe
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or is it oo early to ask for any results?
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: the communication commission unfortunately didn´t got renewed
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *too
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: (even in space?)
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we have started that blog about two weeks ago
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: but I´d be happy to talk about this again
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a job for the Executive; we don’t need a commission for that; we *did*, after all, approve it on the budget
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A blog?
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: also, we will be taking an ad out in Alexias mag for floralia
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Anna’s blog, I believe
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, I want to open a land office, probably in CN.
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: We can use it to put the office in search
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: And pet told me last night that a photographer’s coming Wednesday for her magazine
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: currently if you search for Roman cds or democracy you don’t get much for cDS.
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: I’d noticed that…
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: an old problem
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: And we still have an interveiw with Icon mag pending
[14:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: It could be a sort of tourist centre/real estate agency, too, Tor
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: supposed to meet with photographers this week
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: yes guil
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: That’s a great idea, help them find us if they are looking
[14:00] Fern Leissa: Yes. agree Guillaume
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: so true we have not spent much money. But we are trying to get the word out.
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker nods, “A very good idea, I’m glad you thought of it, Tor”
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that; a “real estate agency”in CN could certainly post a Classificed on search on behalf of the whole o the CDS
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And of course, articles in magazines/blogs will help :_) More than ads!
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: right
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: right, really I was thinking of comandeering one of the vacant shops on the forum
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: so we weill be working on that this week
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: when we finally sell the last parcel I can sell the land office.
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good idea…
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: YAY
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: And then we can move it down stairs ㋡
[14:03] Fern Leissa: hehe
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: but we need to be able to lower prices and make deals as necesary
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Below the SC rooms
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: we have heavy competition in sl
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: (The space isn’t used much, anyway
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I can get a whole region for 125 usd
[14:04] Pip Torok: !
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: but not with so many lovely people as your neighbors
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what!
[14:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: And no history, too
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should get two of those regions
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Frui island and Anshe Chung have sweetheat deals with LL
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For expansion
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hhaa
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh it’s called the “Atlas Program” I believe
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: yup
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, “Colonies”/”Dominions”
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you have a LOT of sims, you start getting wholesale discounts from LL
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think you need to have over 50
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, we can spend…
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: grins
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: I see
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… honestly… at US$125 per whole region… thats really a bargain
[14:06] Pip Torok: … like its going out of fashion!
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And are we talking full sims or homesteads/open spaces?
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: homestead
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhhh I knew it couldn’t be THAT good hehe
[14:06] Pip Torok: i thought we were talking pie-in-the-sky!
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: but you know a place like Fruit usually has a premium tier
[14:06] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn blushes
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: for them to just be getting what is really cost for tier, means they must be paying less to LL
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh well. Economics is about psychology and mass manipulation via the media
[14:07] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer to tell people, “sorry. We’re full, That’s why we’re expensive, we don’t want ANYONE to be part of our 7-year-community”
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, we just need to get people in here
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: make us sound like snobs and justify the high tier hehe
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: once hear I think people will like it.
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: lol gwyn, we could set up a rope outside with a big guy guarding it
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m even thinking of “Join our ELITE community! We’re not your average, run-of-the-mill, cheapskate community which is here one day and gone the next”
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thinking niche markets Luxury items always survive crisis!
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[14:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: “CDS: Because time and experience does not come cheap”
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See!
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the spirit
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: a new banner
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just think…. there are really *very few* communities from 2004 or before that…
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[14:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I wish we could really get a count
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should tell the world why we’re still around and why we still survive in spite of everything
[14:10] Mikelo Serevi: and this is a pretty cool one
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: We’re a grand place ㋡
[14:10] Pip Torok: how about “the Egyptians love it … it’s called Democracy …”
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip!!!!
[14:10] Mikelo Serevi: lol, yes
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha!
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we should vote on a new theme!!!
[14:10] Fern Leissa:
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip, you’re a *genius*!
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi: rofl, that’s great
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s get the Guild rolling
[14:11] Pip Torok: now now, I have to get my head through this RL door! …
[14:11] Tor Karlsvalt thinking of Tor with a shaved head.
[14:11] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol ROFL laughing at Pip’s PR
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: an Egyption airport, hmm
[14:12] Fern Leissa: lol
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: do we have any other announcements?
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: ian
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: or can we adjourn?
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Speaking of airports…
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I want to see you as Tutankhamon and with the motto below “Egyptians love it… it’s called Democracy. Join the CDS now — as old and solid as the pyramids!”
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: LOL
[14:12] Fern Leissa:
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, I love it
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: hehe yea
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have nothing
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: Uncle Tor Wants You
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: and we could build a pyramid.
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:13] Fern Leissa: hehe
[14:13] Pip Torok: sounds Good gwyneth .. I’m glad you thought it up!!
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: Tor ank amun
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: with my shaved head.
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have some stuff, Tor
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: I used to RP Egyptian ㋡
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: hey Guillaume had the costume
[14:14] Fern Leissa: You’d better have us adjourn Lilith. Sounds like we’re movin into brain melt
[14:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Em hotep, I am Khenemetwesir.
[14:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[14:14] Mikelo Serevi: lol Fern
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: heheh
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: yea I was thinking that
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: all in favor to adjourn say aye please
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, aye….
[14:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[14:15] Pip Torok: aye
[14:15] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:15] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Woot!
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:15] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks guys this was great!
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: yea hehe
[14:16] Pip Torok: could really get used to smooth meetings!
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: thanks all

Permalink.

RA Meeting 27 February 2011

Transcript RA Meeting February 27
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:07 pm
[11:57] Mikelo Serevi: hi pip and lilith
[11:57] Lilith Ivory: Hi Mikelo, Hi Pip
[11:57] Pip Torok: hi ……
[11:58] Pip Torok: the early birds catch the worm!
[11:58] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: so they say
[11:59] Mikelo Serevi: I’m only early because I tend to be late
[12:00] Pip Torok: now youre confusing me!
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: if I try to be on time, I’m late, so I give extra time and am early
[12:00] Pip Torok: (makes sense!)
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: also, my poor laptop needs time to rezz things
[12:01] Pip Torok: is SL still on a linux box ?
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: no, windows currently
[12:02] Pip Torok: ah … win-doze …..
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: shudder
[12:03] Pip Torok: actually i have Vista .. but on a powerful machine
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: Vista does not seem to like SL much
[12:03] Pip Torok: and vice versa it seems!
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: vista just needs lots of power, as does SL
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: yes
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: maybe it’s jealous of SL
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:04] Pip Torok: tell me about it
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Fern
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Lilith, Mikelo
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi: hi fern
[12:04] Fern Leissa: Hi Pip
[12:04] Pip Torok: say goodbye to m/tasking with Vista!
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi Fern!
[12:04] Pip Torok: you were on the shelf, fern!
[12:05] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:05] Fern Leissa: I know.
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kellie
[12:05] Fern Leissa: I may never master the art of sitting down lol
[12:05] Fern Leissa: Hi Kellie
[12:05] Kellie Wellesley: Hi Lillith
[12:05] Pip Torok: hello kellie … howre things?
[12:05] Kellie Wellesley: Hi Fern
[12:05] Kellie Wellesley: Good but I seem to have trouble with Landmarks lately
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: and standing doesn’t tire one in here, so I only sit in these meetings
[12:05] Pip Torok: is Anne coming?
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: hi kellie
[12:06] Kellie Wellesley: Hi Mikelo
[12:06] Kellie Wellesley: How are things in the UK Pip?
[12:06] Pip Torok: comme ci comme ca!
[12:06] Pip Torok: eactually not bad … usual british weather though…
[12:07] Kellie Wellesley: ITs a bit odd here as well
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Haven’t seen much of yu recently Pip
[12:07] Pip Torok: ah … have been busy RL-wise …
[12:07] Fern Leissa: though so
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: me too
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: actually, most people I know seem to have had a hectic month
[12:08] Fern Leissa: Bothersome rl lol
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: hey Gui
[12:08] Pip Torok: hi Gui
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gui
[12:08] Fern Leissa: Hi Guilluaume
[12:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Good evening! ㋡
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: looking natty
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[12:09] Fern Leissa: quite so Guillaume. Mikelo is right
[12:09] Pip Torok: red waistcoats seem to be the DPU thing these days
[12:09] Fern Leissa: lol
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you!
[12:09] Mikelo Serevi: bring back waistcoats, I say, and men’s hats
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hear, hear!
[12:10] Pip Torok: wheres Queen Victoria when we need her!
[12:10] Fern Leissa: huuum. Only if they can be worn with jeans i say
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:10] Pip Torok: nothing to stop you … only 1,000,000 avies laughing
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: oh, absolutely
[12:10] Kellie Wellesley: In America its usually the men with hats that are driving slow in the fast lane
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, Pip…
[12:10] Fern Leissa whispers: So Pip … no red waistcoat… think this red belt is enough to keep me in the DPU
[12:11] Pip Torok: call it a virtual waistcoat!
[12:11] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: well, we are late already …
[12:12] Fern Leissa: Where are the rest of our bodies ….
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: should we start with citizens concerns?
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: Cindy is in Europe
[12:12] Fern Leissa: kk
[12:13] Fern Leissa: So are you and Pip
[12:13] Pip Torok: kk
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: don´t know where the others are
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: lol but not traveling
[12:13] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: any citizens concerns?
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: agenda is in the box btw and this meeting is transcripted
[12:14] Pip Torok: btw are we a quorum yet, mme Chair?
[12:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Tor
[12:14] Pip Torok: hi Tor?
[12:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello, Tor!
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: hi Tor
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor!
[12:15] Pip Torok: hi Tor (without question mark!)
[12:15] Fern Leissa:
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: should be as we are 5 of 7
[12:15] Pip Torok: ok
[12:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: We need atleast 4 for a quorum
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: yup exactly
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: any citizens/RA members concerns?
[12:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: None here!
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: ok next item then
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: is anybody ok with the agenda or are there changes?
[12:18] Fern Leissa: none for me
[12:19] Pip Torok: nor for me
[12:19] Guillaume Mistwalker: None here.
[12:19] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: nor here
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: I´ve been told there would be a proposal from the NG today
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: who`s gonna do it? – Tor?
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: i suppose.
[12:21] Pip Torok: well, it wd have been for the NG secretary to put in the proposal, i suppose
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: well, the NG has been dicussing closing up the sides of the sims.
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: think any member of the guilt can do it
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: They seem to have decided upon buying a system from a vendor.
[12:22] Pip Torok: did we agree a cost to doing this, tor?
[12:22] Pip Torok: do we know which system it is to be, tor?
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: basically they want to test the system, but each item needed will cost about 3000 linden.
[12:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe Rosie was discussing that last.
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: she was Guillaume
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: how many items are we talking?
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: and as you were at the meeting I hope you can corrent anything I say.
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: not sure mikelo
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: more than one for sure
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie had contracted the vendor and he will not do a custom build.
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: is this a wall-creation system?
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: ok seem the NG didn’t give me specific money amounts.
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a problem
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: for a proposal, sure
[12:25] Pip Torok: since we don’t know the money involved, I propose we table the item
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: NL 7-10 allows the chancellor to approve purchace of builds without RA approval not exceeding $L15,000.00
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: however
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: RA must authorize a budget for this
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: per the law NL 7-10
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: might be a good idea to table it till you did the testing and decide how much money you will need
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: right?
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: A. License Agreements and License Budget
1. The RA ratifies the version of the IP license agreement as published by the New Guild in the CDS forum.
2. This and other RA-ratified template agreements will be kept on an official CDS website (such as a Wiki).
3. The Chancellor may sign RA-ratified versions of IP license agreements on behalf of the CDS under the conditions outlined in 4, 5 and 6.
4. The Chancellor may negotiate the terms of contracts but needs RA approval for any single structure more expensive than L$ 15,000, as well as for different contractual terms.
5. The total amount that the Chancellor can spend on content license acquisition shall be determined at the start of each term by the RA. The RA can also set extraordinary budgets for specific content.
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: I second Pip’s propsal to table
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: o
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Welll possibly. I had hoped to get a deffinate amount before the meeting, but….
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: ok all in favor to table say aye please
[12:27] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:27] Pip Torok: to discuss this now wd be to work blind
[12:27] Pip Torok: aye
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: can´t you spend some money for it now ?
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: and we aprove the whole thing later?
[12:28] Fern Leissa: I’d be happier with a clear proposal w/ budget
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: btw you might be able to read the NG proposal here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fnk … dit?hl=en#
[12:29] Pip Torok: is that practical lilith seeing that we dont even know the initial amounts?
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: this is ok with me. cerainly
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: certainly
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: mind you we had approved 2000.00 for this project already.
[12:30] Pip Torok: ok then i go back on what i said …
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: this was the build Rosie was doing before?
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: I must express my support for the project, but I think that the executive can make do with 15,000L to test the pogram. ㋡
[12:30] Fern Leissa: But money aside… it would be nice to have some formal proposal for exactly what is being proposed..
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Mikelo
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: she found a vendor with a product hat seems to do the job.
[12:31] Pip Torok agrees with Fern
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: I agree, I’d rather know exactly what’s being done before I nod my head
[12:31] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we are still at a testing stage.
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: maybe you can pass me a LM later where I can have a look at those items
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: I start to get curious
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i understand. alas I missed the NG meeting where they were demonstrated.
[12:33] Fern Leissa: A testing stage could certainly be included in the proposal.
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: The problem we are solving here is that AA is not matching at our shared borders?
[12:33] Fern Leissa: Who was supposed to report/propose to the RA today?
[12:33] Pip Torok: and seemingly not willing to cooperate either
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: I still think we could just move the sims again, but that’s perhaps a topic for another day
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: this seem to be another issue
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: out of topic for now
[12:34] Pip Torok: true …
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: all ok if we move to the next agenda item?
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi nods
[12:35] Pip Torok: ok!
[12:35] Fern Leissa: ok
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: we need to aprove the list of locations that can be sponsored by citizens
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: do you have a link to it handy Tor?
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: hope I said it correctly btw
[12:36] Fern Leissa: perfect
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, I will have to go in about 20 minutes, Madam LRA
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: oh I see
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: you have 7 days vote of course if we decide something in your absense
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key … 2YgO#gid=0
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, Mme LRA ㋡
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: i altered it a bit to limit the land in the monaster available for sponsorship to the lake.
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: It seems a sound proposal to me.
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: not the monastery itself?
[12:40] Fern Leissa: This is the sponsorship proposal submitted by Arria last term and approved by the RA correct?
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: The monastery isn’t really public land.
[12:40] Fern Leissa: We are just authorizing the locations for sponsorship?
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: isn´t the monastery owned by Arria or her group?
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: I see
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: well not quite fern
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: This list stems from that proposal
[12:41] Pip Torok: when you say 2seattle Road” and “Old Monastery Road” … exactly what location are we sponsoring?
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I am merely complying with that law and submitting a list of sponsor locations.
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: do we need to discuss or can we aprove it as it is?
[12:41] Fern Leissa: And we need to agree or disagree with the locations?
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: old monastery Road is in AM leading to my cabin.
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: I’m curious about how many we can sponsor this way
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Seattel Road is the road headig out to the monastery.
[12:42] Pip Torok: are the location the _buildings- bordering Seattle Road?
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: also in am
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: no just the road.
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: well we could sponsor many mikelo.
[12:42] Pip Torok: so its the road _surface_ / or the bridge?
[12:43] Pip Torok: (or both?)
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the intention was not to sponsor too many.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it woud be essentially the LV and the Road and bridge are on.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: LV land
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: for me it doesn´t really matter what it is hehe
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: I doubt we will sponsor very many in this manner.
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: This looks like a good list to me
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[12:44] Pip Torok: and to me …
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: for me also
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shall we vote?
[12:45] Pip Torok: yes!
[12:45] Fern Leissa: sure
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: right now I would not be allowing more than one per location.
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: for the whole road, for example?
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: ok all in favour for approving this list say aye please
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: ok, nm
[12:45] Pip Torok: aye
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:45] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: yay
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: now dear kids we have a real interesting subject
[12:46] Pip Torok: , curious . ….
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: what di you find out about the content archivist Tor
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: oh
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: well NL 7-10 establishes the content archivist or CA
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: since that law, the SC appointed Aliasi Stonebender as CA
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Per the law she was to create an Alt to serve as the CA.
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: The CA Alt was never created.
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: !
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shame.
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Reason given that there just wasn’t any content.
[12:48] Pip Torok: ??!
[12:48] Fern Leissa: So where is content housed… if I can put it that way?
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: but we do have CDS buildings!
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, the law required the Chancellor to secure an agreement from the CA.
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: what liltih said, yeah
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: The agreement templet it in the law, NL 7-10
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: Lilith, I mean
[12:49] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: the agreement is a problem now
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: first as far as I can tell is was never securred
[12:50] Pip Torok: first of all, we need a CA’s alt whether or not we have cpntent to archive …
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: second it includes the stipend amount of $L1000.00
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: what does it mean ” was never securred”?
[12:50] Fern Leissa: Is the stipend being paid even though the agreement was not secured?
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: since then, the past RA and chancellor has increased the stipend for the CA to 2500.00 in budgest but never amended the agreement
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Fern
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: !
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: So I am more than happy to eforce the law and Aliasi is perfectly ok
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: but the agreement includes the stipend.
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: stipend abouts btw should not be in the law
[12:52] Close Range: Red Bikcin [21m] [12:52] Fern Leissa: Enforce the law how?
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: it sould be an exec decision and approved in the budget
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: but should be written down somewhere so everybody can look it up
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Fern, require Aliasi to create thealt and “sign” thestatement
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: stipends are in the budget
[12:53] Pip Torok: in that case, i hope the RA will support Exec action to ensure that there WILL be a CA-alt
[12:53] Fern Leissa: Ok. Sounds good Tor.
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: but putting them in the law like this muddles everything.
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye, Pip.
[12:53] Fern Leissa: What about the “no content” issue. Does that mean we don’t know where it is… who has it?
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t know fern.
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: the CA position is funny
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: it always was imo
[12:54] Pip Torok: imo thats a red-herring … first there IS content … secondly even if there was no content we still need a CA-alt
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: it is a throw back to great fear of a single person being able to delete content
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: So we’ll amend it to say “stipend as stipulated in the Chancellor’s budget”
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: yes, the law itself mentions the bridge, and I can think of at least two other structures in NFS
[12:54] Tor Karlsvalt: yes mik that would be fine
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: the CA is appointed by the SC
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: think most of old town CN are CDS builds
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: but the RA seems to control it.
[12:55] Pip Torok: in that case what is the dean of the SC doing about this issue?
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: as the RA is charged with requiring an audit
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: nothing pip
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: Hi Isabel
[12:56] Fern Leissa: I think Pip is wondering why the SC appointed the CA
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: So I think the SC was designed to be under close scrutiny of all three branches.
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: sort of complicated.
[12:56] Pip Torok: i wd suggest that the RA request the Dean to look into this, do what she thinks necessary, liaise with the exec and explain to the RA … we NEED an explanation imo
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I have no idea Fern
[12:57] Fern Leissa:
[12:57] Fern Leissa: I have to say… I like the idea of a CA.. with content of course
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I thnk the law merely requires that RA can request an audit.
[12:57] Fern Leissa: As a back-up copy for all community builds
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: for me it seems Tor is about to fix it
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: what can we the RA do to help with that?
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: yes I just need the agrement modified.
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: just lost track a little sorry
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: as Mikelo suggested.
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: I have a simple motion ready to alter the law slightly
[12:58] Fern Leissa:
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: good
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: at least, to take the exact figure out, if everyone is ready
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: yes
[12:59] Fern Leissa: yes
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: I move we alter NL 7-10, changing the line “monthly payment of $1000 linden dollar” to “a stipend, as specified in the Chancellor’s budget”
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: I´d be happy to have a second
[12:59] Fern Leissa:
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Second.
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: all in favour for Mikelos ament say aye pleasy
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Move to vote?
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[12:59] Pip Torok: aye
[12:59] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: also I think we really should have an executive Alt
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: these kind of hard-coding issues are a problem in software, too
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: holding the non transferable content we need for events
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: I’ll send a note to cindy about this, as she asked
[13:00] Fern Leissa: Could that not also be the CA?
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: might be possible
[13:01] Pip Torok: btw any comment on my suggestion … vis .. i wd suggest that the RA request the Dean to look into this, do what she thinks necessary, liaise with the exec and explain to the RA … we NEED an explanation imo
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: but as Tor told me the CA archivist was meant to prevent content from mad Chancellors _)
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree, Pip
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: And if that’s a vote, I support — “aye”.
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: With that, I’m off!
[13:02] Pip Torok: we have neither delia nor Aliasi here to clear this matter up
[13:02] Fern Leissa: Doesn’t just have to be mad Chancellors, could be other reasons we loose/delete content
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye, ladies and gentlemen. ㋡
[13:02] Pip Torok: bye Gui!
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: does that mean you want to bring this to SC also Pip?
[13:02] Fern Leissa: Bye Guillauame
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: night Guillaume
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker tips his hat off and bows, like a gentleman.
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: cu gui
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: bye Gui
[13:02] Pip Torok: yes, Lilith
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: in this case I´d need a second so we can vote for it
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: right?
[13:03] Pip Torok agrees
[13:03] Fern Leissa: I need clarification. What are we asking SC about?
[13:03] Pip Torok: no second?
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: but is it still necessary as we votet for Mikelos amend already?
[13:04] Pip Torok: we ask this:i wd suggest that the RA request the Dean to look into this, do what she thinks necessary, liaise with the exec and explain to the RA … we NEED an explanation imo
[13:04] Fern Leissa: Are you wanting to clarify why they were the onces to appoint the CA?
[13:05] Pip Torok: not specicifically … merely to put us in the picture and give us an explannation
[13:05] Fern Leissa: *ones
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: didn´t Tor give us an explanation already?
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: The explanation is that his has been ignored for years now.
[13:06] Pip Torok: yes … but we need one from the SC!
[13:06] Fern Leissa: Ok. I second Pip
[13:06] Pip Torok: why do they say there is no content?
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: well ok
[13:06] Pip Torok: (thanks Fern)
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: all in favor to bring it to SC say aye please
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: I suggest we merely amend the agreement, i get it from Aliasi, she creates the alt and hte RA requests an invenfory.
[13:07] Pip Torok: aye
[13:07] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: nay
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok, i interpret this as an RA request for an inventory of the content.
[13:08] Lilith Ivory: for this I would vote aye also
[13:09] Lilith Ivory: we need 7 day votes to know if we bring it to SC or not
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: so did you change your nay to an aye, lilith?
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: I said nay to bring it to SC
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: as I don´t see why we need to bother them with that issue
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: imo we are fine with your amend
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: but you would aye a request to them to inventory the content?
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: yes but I don´t think the SC knows more than we do
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: let Tor and Alliassi figure it out together and give us a list
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: ok, the main thing is to get an alt created and get our stuff backed-up
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: exactly
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: and we need to find all those old CDS buildings to give it to the Alt
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: but, like Pip, I’m a little curious why the Sc doesn’t thing we have any building
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: s
[13:13] Pip Torok: imo we all need to know (a) the inventory if any and (b) what arrangements for an CA-alt are in place or not .. and why/why not
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: yup I´m just not fine with moving all our problems to the SC
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: aren´t we grown ups ourselfes?
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: the SC is for overlooking laws and not for searching content right?
[13:15] Pip Torok: true … but we (the RA PLUS SC PLUS Exec PLUS citizens) still need to know
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: I agree Pip
[13:16] Fern Leissa: I think the issue here is that we want clarification from the SC because they appointed the CA
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree pip, and we should get an inventory of items held by the CA.
[13:16] Fern Leissa: Which seems kinda strange to me actually
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: looooong time ago
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: well per the law, authority over the CA is mixed.
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: it looks like either Tor or the SC can do the inventory
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: well right, The RA requests it tho per the law
[13:17] Fern Leissa: perhaps that is part of the problem. No clear chain of responsibility and this “fell through the cracks”
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: if Gui votes aye wewill bring it there anyway
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: But Fern is right, the SC appointed the CA
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: and Tor is pretty busy already
[13:18] Fern Leissa: for sure
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: are you Tor ?
[13:19] Fern Leissa: He is around all the time trying to move the day-to-day along as I see it
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: well, let´s see what the 7day vote brings
[13:19] Fern Leissa: esp the vacant land/no income issues
[13:20] Pip Torok agrees about the 7-day vote
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: next item would be Report of the citizenship commission but Aria is not here again
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: btw, this is the bit about inventory or review of the CA.. 9. Either the Chancellor or the Dean of the Scientific Counsel, when requested by the RA, must audit all archived objects in the the CA avatar’s inventory and provide that audit to the RA for review. The audit should be conducted according to the procedures outlined in section C
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry that is out of order
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: but good to know
[13:21] Fern Leissa: yes good to know
[13:22] Pip Torok: yes!
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: as Arria isn´t there we have time left anyway
[13:23] Pip Torok: may we move to VI.B please?
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: sure
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: Fern do you want to give us report?
[13:24] Fern Leissa: Sure, I can catch everyone up to where we are on the covenants
[13:24] Fern Leissa: I’m slowly making my way through the sim specific covenants
[13:25] Fern Leissa: I’ve had 2 meetings about AM and now 2 mts about LA
[13:25] Fern Leissa: Next week I’ll hold meetings about the CN covenant
[13:25] Fern Leissa: On March 1 @ 4 pm slt and March 5 @ 9 am slt
[13:25] Fern Leissa: I’m thinking the baths are a good place
[13:26] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:26] Pip Torok agrees!
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: oh, nice
[13:26] Fern Leissa: I’ll announce it tomorrow am
[13:26] Fern Leissa: Some of the same issues are coming up… but in AM and LA
[13:26] Fern Leissa: Whether or not to have land holding limits
[13:26] Fern Leissa: How much, what zones
[13:27] Fern Leissa: There’s a lot of reason to lift the land holding limits in LA
[13:27] Fern Leissa: but there is also the question of having land available for new comers
[13:27] Fern Leissa: Should several large land holders buy up a lot of property
[13:27] Pip Torok: (does “lift” mean increase the limit or abolish the limit?)
[13:28] Fern Leissa: Theme is still a problem in LA but I think the general agreement is that it is roman Italy with a greek port
[13:28] Fern Leissa: Southern Greek port
[13:28] Fern Leissa: Time period is still at issue.
[13:28] Fern Leissa: I am seriously thinking of trying to craft a short narrative for each sim covenant
[13:29] Fern Leissa: that makes it clear where/what time/ what theme
[13:29] Fern Leissa: Land price keeps coming into the discussion althourh
[13:29] Fern Leissa: that is outside the covenant
[13:29] Fern Leissa: Also… subletting is an issue
[13:30] Fern Leissa: I do not have agreement on that issue… but it does seem most of the vendors what to be able to sublet
[13:30] Fern Leissa: sublet, as distinct from renting
[13:30] Fern Leissa: So subletters would pay some fee(s) directly to the landowner and would not have voting rights
[13:31] Fern Leissa: I encourage all of you to look at the transcrip if you want more info on the feeling here
[13:31] Fern Leissa: I think those are the main things that still need working out
[13:31] Fern Leissa: I plan to continue meeting with each sim.
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: good
[13:32] Fern Leissa: After that I’d like to put a draft of the CDS general covenant and each specific covenant up on the forum
[13:32] Fern Leissa: And ask comments.
[13:32] Fern Leissa: I will try, as best I can to reflect what I understadn
[13:32] Fern Leissa: to be the desires of the community
[13:33] Fern Leissa: in these covenant drafts.
[13:33] Fern Leissa: That’s it. I guess Except for your questions
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: any questions to Fern?
[13:34] Pip Torok: none from me … a fair summing-up imo
[13:34] Mikelo Serevi: no, it’s was a good report. Thanks for all your hard work, Fern
[13:34] Fern Leissa:
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: yes thank you Fern
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: for the land commission we are still looking for a volunteer willing to chair it
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: unfortunately i had no chance to ask Sudane so far
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: one other person is thinking about chairing this commission
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: also I will ( for sure) make a forum post about it this week
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m pretty sure we will find somebody for this job
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: any comments?
[13:38] Pip Torok: I think we’ve said all we can on this issue…
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: yup
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: any other RA memebers concerns?
[13:39] Lilith Ivory isn´t used to so much silence in here
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:39] Pip Torok revels in th silence!
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:39] Mikelo Serevi: I guess we’re all worn out from RL
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: yea same here
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: I sugest we have our next meeting in 14 days
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: all ok with that?
[13:40] Fern Leissa:
[13:40] Pip Torok agrees
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: good
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: any announcements?
[13:41] Fern Leissa: That’s March 13th. Daylight savings begins in US
[13:41] Pip Torok: just one
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: yikes
[13:41] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: thanks for the warning
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: luckily, my phone is pretty smart
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: phone/alarm
[13:42] Pip Torok: ive built a new house in NFS .. and will have a housewarming shortly for all CDS citizens plus friends
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: wish europe and the US would do it at the same time
[13:42] Fern Leissa: somebodys got to be lol
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: oh nice, Pip
[13:42] Pip Torok: but cannot yet tell you when!
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: nice
[13:42] Fern Leissa: Nice
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: I guess it will be at an europe friendly time
[13:43] Fern Leissa: Wish there were no such thing as Daylight Savings
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: yah
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah
[13:43] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah Fern , the corn needs ALL the daylight
[13:43] Pip Torok: I guess … but then i’ll get someone to deputise for the US-froendly period and the asia-friendly period!
[13:43] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:43] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:44] Fern Leissa: Chinese know how to do it. Same time all zones lol
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: wow cool
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: so only one actually fits the daylight….
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:45] Pip Torok: same time all zones? i thought that was SLT!
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: right Pip, California time rules
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: if there are no more announcements I sugest we adjourn for now
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: all in favour?
[13:46] Pip Torok: aye
[13:46] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:46] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Woot!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 27 March 2011

Transcript RA Meeting March 27
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:39 pm
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: hope there will be more than us today
[11:59] Mikelo Serevi: I think there should be, I talked to fern a while ago
[12:00] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: besides, you sent the notice early this time
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: this time I nearly became a victim of daylight saving time
[12:00] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: I try hard hehe
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: oh, it’s happening over there now, right?
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: yes our time changed last night
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: brb
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: back
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Huum.
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Hi Lilith
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Fern
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi:
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Hi Mikelo and Guillaume
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Can’t walk
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: guil is away atm
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: Huum?
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: ooh
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: lag?
[12:03] Fern Leissa: yeah
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: there should be a weelchair somewhere in my inventory
[12:03] Fern Leissa: wheew Made it
[12:03] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Hi Pip
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi fern, hi all
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi: with my older system, I used to long-distance sit a lot
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi: hi pip
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Pip
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: think we have a quorum hu?
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: and then some
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: we should start with Citizens concerns
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello all, sorry for running away so soon.. had to clean up from lunch ㋡
[12:06] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Hi Guillaume wb
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Fern ㋡
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Where are our lovely citizens
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: not concerned, I guess
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha!
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[12:07] Pip Torok: being lovely somewhere i suppose, Fern
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: but they COULD be if they wanted, and that’s what’s important
[12:07] Fern Leissa: hehe
[12:07] Fern Leissa: I know Anna can’t come. I saw her last night
[12:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aw… shame
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: no concerns from RA member/citizens also?
[12:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have none…
[12:08] Fern Leissa: Not for today. No.
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: I´m trying to bring our bossman here for his Report
[12:10] Pip Torok: he was around just now
[12:10] Fern Leissa: You’re our boss Lilith
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, boosman?
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: hhe
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bossman, rather
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: I´m only the bosswoman
[12:10] Pip Torok: talk of the d8vil!
[12:10] Fern Leissa: hehe. Guess he’s here
[12:10] Fern Leissa: Just a guess
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[12:10] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: nice moves
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Looks like someone was dancing…!
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: halaluha
[12:11] Fern Leissa: hehe. Looks that way
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Tor is all happy to see us
[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: um I mean hi
[12:11] Guillaume Mistwalker chuckles.
[12:11] Pip Torok: hi (I mean umm:)
[12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: You guys should all go to Callies gosple brunch sometime
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: didn´t know it was today
[12:11] Fern Leissa: Where is her gosple brunch?
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh! I forgot that it was the last sunday of the month!
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh some sim.
[12:12] Pip Torok: didnt know it was anyday!
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: it is lots of fun
[12:12] Fern Leissa: some sim lol
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: It is alot of fun ㋡
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: let´s move forward to the report of the Chancelor
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I got the lord in my hard and spirit in my feet
[12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I didn’t prepare a set statement
[12:13] Fern Leissa: Your hard huh?
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hhaha
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: heart
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:13] Fern Leissa: ok. We’ll let that slide
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: alleluia
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: just give us a short financial report and let us know about landsales and events
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we have been conservative this term with spending.
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: Arria posted Sudanes report on the forum right?
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: since the beginning of the term we have however saved about $290.00 usd, which we will begin spending for Floralia and we will plan some events to crate soem buzz for the festival
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes for February
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: LA is a problem.
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Currently there are 16 parcels in LA that are for sale
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: by CDS
[12:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: !!!!
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: 8 are set for sale
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: in addition there are 2 private sales in LA
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: currently the sim is slightly loosing money.
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: not a lot, only about 17 usd a month.
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: We have created a spreadsheet with the current land available in CDS.
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: the sheet is available on the web at
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: http://cdstheblog.blogspot.com/p/land.html
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: We have aquired a new kiosk system
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: an example of one is at the back of the hall near the exit.
[12:19] Guillaume Mistwalker nods, “Much better than the last…!”
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: it is a very virstile system
[12:19] Fern Leissa: Yes. Saw it last night. Very nice
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: will do lots for us
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Each picture is a button that will provide a group joiner, a subcribo invite if a person does not want to join the group, and links to the portal blog and land info
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: cool
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: very cool
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: We will be offering copies of the kiosk to anyone who would like to place it on their land they might own elsewhere
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: We can have a number of admin to the system
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: that´s a good idea
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: and it can be updated via the web
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: a second network of kiosks will be set out for Floralia
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Floralia dates will be May 27, 28 and 29
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: We plan to have music, a play, shops and maybe a horse race.
[12:23] Fern Leissa:
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Aliasi has created a CA alt
[12:24] Pip Torok: great!
[12:24] Fern Leissa: Yes, excellent
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: The name is
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: CDSArchive
[12:25] Fern Leissa:
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: There is at present not much in it
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: lovely name!
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Good, good.
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: may we get a content list till next meeting?
[12:25] Pip Torok: trips off the tongue!
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: I will send her a folder of all my Floralia things.
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Moon’s textures for the CN facelift, as well as her builds and textures for Locus Amoenus. Cindy Ecksol’s stream bridge for same, a Quay bridge marked as by Sudane, an oktoberfest stall.
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank Guillaume
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I asked Aliasi to continue to look for items and provide a more detailed list
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: good!
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: She stated however, little is from the old Neualtenburg days
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: also, not all builders provided her with copies of structures
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: She also provided me with the passworkd for the alt, but I will just give that to the Dean
[12:27] Pip Torok: can they be contacted?
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker nods…
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: and whowever else the law requires
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not sure pip
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I suppose I could try.
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: sounds like a lot of research it to do here
[12:29] Pip Torok: we won’t hold our breath, Tor …
[12:29] Fern Leissa: What about stuff from Brian Livingstone?
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly, I think he did the amphitheater
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: That would be an important structure I would hate to loose.
[12:29] Fern Leissa: He’s my neighbor sorta. I could IM him and just ask if you want?
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: sure thanks Fern
[12:30] Fern Leissa: kk
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Do you see him in world?
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: he’s been busy, but I’m sure he’ll be agreeable about it
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: some of the old houses in CN are free to copy …
[12:30] Fern Leissa: He’s doin grad school so Mikelo is right. Pretty busy and not around lately
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: maybe we should give the CA a copy of them also
[12:31] Pip Torok: agree
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: copy of?
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yes missed it
[12:31] Pip Torok: the old houses in CN
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: some of the houses downtown CN are free to copy
[12:32] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: well we could collect copies and give them to the CA. I or Anna can do that.
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: I found out by accident
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: probably should try to contact he builder first tho.
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: it´s Sudanes builds
[12:33] Pip Torok: it wd be diplomatic …
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: oh well I will ask Sudane.
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Trebor has been doing lots of work with tier and land analysis
[12:34] Fern Leissa: Yes. Really helpful info
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: yea he agreed to chair the Land commission
[12:34] Fern Leissa: ))
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I have to commend him for such an extensive repot
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I mayself would favor converting to a hippo system.
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, I am farily sure Sudane would like it as well.
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: naturally this is a huge chagne and would need discussion.
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: then after that implementation would take a lot of work.
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: yes, but it’s worth talking about
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it is Mikelo
[12:36] Lilith Ivory nods
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Treb Sudane and myself have posted to the forum recently on the subject
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: the system is cheap.
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: less then 5000 Lindne
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: linden
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: But it would provide instant reports, data protection, additional managers, more transpancy (an issue with some) and more
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: downside is that we might have to pay multiple boxes
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: these would be set on each parcel
[12:38] Pip Torok: how many?
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: each parcel
[12:38] Pip Torok: oh!
[12:38] Fern Leissa:
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: we would not have to use that configuration
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: as you know AA has one box per citizen
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: The would require some manual manipulaton.
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: but I understand it could be done.
[12:39] Fern Leissa: I did not know that about AA. Sound right Pip?
[12:40] Pip Torok: i thought it was each citizen and each plot s/he rented
[12:40] Fern Leissa: I did too
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: so she has a separate box per plot?
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: well, rental system of AA seems to be a little out of topic hu?
[12:41] Pip Torok: for me she did
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: ok that makes sence actually from what I read.
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: well we could do that.
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: for me both works having one box in each fronyard or a central one
[12:41] Fern Leissa: So we would have to pay for each plot
[12:41] Fern Leissa: Is that right Tor? From what you read?
[12:42] Pip Torok: i wonder whether the AA boxes cost 5000 each!
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: but you must have one box per parcel?
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: yes fern
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: that seems to go along with the specs i read.
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I thought AA had a different config.
[12:42] Fern Leissa: ok. thanks
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: problem with CDS is in NFS.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane says there are about a 100 prim micro parcels.
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: of mayb it is 100 parcels alltogether
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: you can imagine the problem of putting 100 payment boxes in a buiding.
[12:43] Fern Leissa: yeah…
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: ouch
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: so there are issues.
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker nods.
[12:44] Pip Torok: i think a multiple plot single citizen system is the only way, Tor
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: well to tell the truth, for me it doesn’t matter.
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: any given month I am at or near all of my parcels
[12:45] Fern Leissa: But that wouldn’t solve the micro parcel issue unfortunately Pip
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be no problem to just pay the box.
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: with Hippo this could be done at any time
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: NFS does get dicy
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: sometimes new citizens had problems to find their boxes hehe
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: There I would perhaps at lest put all the boxes for each person on one parcel
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I suppose we could put all the boxes on one parcel for each owner. But that would require lots of work eveytime some land changed hands.
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: but thes are things that can be discussed by the commission
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: oron the forum.
[12:48] Pip Torok: agree
[12:48] Lilith Ivory: I agree also
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: oh Rosie had done a great job closing up the east side of NFS and AM
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye, yes
[12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah?
[12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: She did?
[12:49] Fern Leissa: Oh. It’s done already?
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I have not inquired with anyone in AA as to how this was received.
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: yes she completed it several weeks ago.
[12:49] Fern Leissa: I’ll have to take a look.
[12:49] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not sure if that is intended to be final. but you should all look
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: yes!
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[12:50] Pip Torok: i suppose no news from AA is good news …
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: do you have anything else to report Tor ?
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: any new citizens?
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: no, that should be all.
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: oh one more thing
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker smiles
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I need to get the statemet from Aliasi. I will send it to her and ask her to post it to the forum under her own name.
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s IS all, thank you, all and Ms. LRA
[12:52] Lilith Ivory applauds
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: thx tor
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: let´s move to commissions than
[12:52] Pip Torok: applauds
[12:52] Fern Leissa: ty Tor
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: I just talked to Arria …
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, Herr Chancellor
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, Lil?
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: she has nothing to report about Citizenship commission at the moment
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: but will make a proposal soon
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: anyting new from the Covenant Commission Fern?
[12:54] Fern Leissa: Sure. I could catch everybody up
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: yea
[12:54] Fern Leissa: And maybe talk about a few changes I’m going to suggest
[12:55] Fern Leissa: Sound ok?
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker nods.
[12:55] Pip Torok: sure
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: just not too long as Mikelo gave us a lot to talk about also
[12:55] Fern Leissa: So far, I have held Covenant Commission community meetings to discuss the general CDS covenant
[12:55] Fern Leissa: as well as each sim’s covenant, with the exception of the Monastery sim.
[12:56] Fern Leissa: I’ve posted all the transcripts of the meetings to the forum for comments
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi:
[12:56] Fern Leissa: The community meetings to discuss the Monastery covenant are set for next week,
[12:56] Fern Leissa: March 29th at 4 pm slt and April 2nd @ 9 am slt
[12:56] Fern Leissa: By April 23rd I hope to have rewritten the covenants,
[12:57] Fern Leissa: based as much as possible on comments and concerns coming from citizens
[12:57] Fern Leissa: I will post them to the Representative Assembly Discussion section
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: good
[12:57] Fern Leissa: f the forum for your comments and changes.
[12:57] Fern Leissa: There are a couple of changes to the General CDS covenant
[12:57] Fern Leissa: That I am planning to recommend
[12:58] Fern Leissa: Private security scripts would now be allowed, as long as they are used above 512m
[12:58] Fern Leissa: Removal of the provision against subletting.
[12:58] Fern Leissa: This is something that was requested by every CDS merchant that attended the community meetings.
[12:58] Fern Leissa: Changes to the use of signs include allowing them within commercial zones
[12:58] Fern Leissa: as long as they fall within the theme of the sim
[12:59] Fern Leissa: Election posters and signs are specifically allowed.
[12:59] Fern Leissa: the restrictions on land ownership is the issue
[12:59] Fern Leissa: that I feel most impt to look at
[12:59] Fern Leissa: I am suggesting…
[12:59] Pip Torok: (agrees)
[12:59] Fern Leissa: Maximum ownership of CDS land would be set at the CDS community level, not at the individual sim level (
[13:00] Fern Leissa: Land ownership per individual (including any Group property an individual might own)
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: not a bad idea, simpler
[13:00] Fern Leissa: would be set at a maximum of 8192 m2 per avatar
[13:00] Fern Leissa: For purposes of this covenant, groups do not own land,
[13:00] Fern Leissa: only the individual whose name appears as owner on the Land Tab.
[13:01] Fern Leissa: That an individual is currently allowed to deed land to a
[13:01] Fern Leissa: group in CDS
[13:01] Fern Leissa: and thereby gain citizenship is independent of the calculation
[13:01] Fern Leissa: f the allowed maximum for land ownership under the CDS General Covenant.
[13:01] Fern Leissa: Ownership limits would also be subject to specific restrictions within certain zones
[13:02] Fern Leissa: NFS, CN and LA (urban areas)
[13:02] Fern Leissa: these would not apply to AM.
[13:02] Fern Leissa: Ownership of land in these restricted zones would NOT
[13:02] Fern Leissa: be in addition to the 8192 m2 maximum of CDS land ownership allowed.
[13:02] Fern Leissa: Citizens owning land which exceeds the maximum allowed, but purchased prior to the enactment
[13:02] Fern Leissa: of this new covenant, will not be asked to relinquish their
[13:03] Fern Leissa: excess holdings but will not be permitted to purchase
[13:03] Fern Leissa: any additional land until they have reduced their holdings
[13:03] Fern Leissa: to an amount below the maximum that meets or exceeds the amount of new land
[13:03] Fern Leissa: they wish to purchase
[13:03] Fern Leissa: he question of lifting the restriction of clubs
[13:04] Fern Leissa: has been raised a no of times
[13:04] Fern Leissa: but I am not planning to remove this clause.
[13:04] Fern Leissa: I am assuming that musical events and dancing on either public or private land,
[13:04] Fern Leissa: even if they are repeated on a very regular basis,
[13:04] Fern Leissa: are understood by this community
[13:05] Fern Leissa: to be a cultural or social events and not subject to the restriction on clubs.
[13:05] Fern Leissa: I’d really love some feed-back on the land ownership
[13:05] Fern Leissa: That’s if for now I guess
[13:05] Pip Torok: i have a query
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: yeah, we wouldn’t want to have to shut Pip down for having a club
[13:05] Fern Leissa: Did I make it in 10 min
[13:05] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Thank you fern
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: good job!!!
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: thx fern
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: you were quite good
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker claps
[13:06] Fern Leissa:
[13:06] Pip Torok: if someone wishes to reduce his holdings, how does s/he go about it? … set for sale to an individual, to “anybody” or even abandon?
[13:07] Fern Leissa: It would be the same as now Pip
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: anything that works, I guess
[13:07] Fern Leissa: Any of those
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: I guess so also
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker nods.
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh, the best think to do is to abandon, naturally if you have tried to sell
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: same like before
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: If you abandon, sudane will get a notice that the land is available
[13:07] Pip Torok: right now i have set a plot for sale to Sudane, but until/unless she accepts it i hav not reduced my holdings
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: if you just set it to for sale, to Rudeen, she will not get a notice.
[13:08] Pip Torok: (in old monastery Street)
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: right Pip
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I have told her already of the parcel
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: she knows.
[13:08] Pip Torok: ah … thanks .. ill send her a note then ….
[13:08] Lilith Ivory: isn´t abandoming more easy for both sides?
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: but she did express a wish that everyone just tell her if you choose to set it for sale to Rudeen
[13:09] Pip Torok: so i’ll wait to hear from her …
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: yes lil
[13:09] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:09] Mikelo Serevi: it just sounds wrong, like abandoning a kitten
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: ifyou abandon, Sudane will be automatically notified
[13:09] Pip Torok: ok … 9thinks: remember that, Pip)
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: yes I agree Mik, there is that
[13:09] Pip Torok: so do i agree Mik
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: If you ever noticed, there are sensors placed at each sim
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: these inform Sudane of any changes to land ownership.
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: I see
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: but like I said, if you set it for sale to Rudene, you must tell Sudane via IM or email.
[13:11] Fern Leissa: Sometimes sisters just don’t talk lol
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:11] Lilith Ivory: hehe so true
[13:11] Pip Torok: i know a few like that!
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: only when one steals the others bf.
[13:12] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I think they yell then
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: hehehe
[13:12] Pip Torok: … or clothes … or makeup …
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: well guys ….
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: let´s move forward hehe
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: all I wanted to say about the Land commission was said already
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: Trebor agreed to chair the commission and did a lot of work on the forum already
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: if you all agree we can move to Mikelos aganda additions now
[13:14] Fern Leissa: Yes. Please
[13:14] Mikelo Serevi: thanks
[13:14] Pip Torok: yes … agree
[13:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, please.
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: I just realized I forgot to place the original text in the box
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: but it´s there now
[13:15] Mikelo Serevi: it’s actually three things, I dont know that we can get to it all
[13:15] Mikelo Serevi: the first item came up a few weeks ago regarding land sales
[13:15] Mikelo Serevi: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=241
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: NL 9-3 Land Sales Listing Improvement Act
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: maybe we can start talking and continue with them next time
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: ok, we can play it by ear
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: NL 9-3 apparently allows CDS to prevent citizens from selling land on their own
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: disabling the SL system
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think the state should ever be able to do this
[13:17] Pip Torok: URL of this please?
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=241
[13:18] Pip Torok: tks
[13:18] Fern Leissa: Have we ever actually done this??
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: I think it’s supposed to be 1-4, but there are two item #3s
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: no, I didn’t even know this law existed
[13:19] Fern Leissa: jeez. Me neither
[13:19] Mikelo Serevi: so my proposal here is to just strike 3 an4, or both #3s
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: gez, I can´t remember this also
[13:20] Pip Torok: i’d like us to look at 2 popositions about this …
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: would like to know why this got adopted
[13:20] Fern Leissa: Why not all of NL 9-3 Mikelo ?
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: There seems to be a typo in he law
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: the second #3 should be #4
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: there might be a reason for this law
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: it seems like it was designed to allow a better system to be put in place
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: we should find out more about it before we vote imo
[13:21] Pip Torok: 1) that sales and purchase of private land with landlimits are the business of the 2 parties only
[13:21] Fern Leissa: “acilitated and supervised by the CDS Executive Branch. .. don’t know if I like that either
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[13:22] Pip Torok: and 2) that these transactions, once made, be transparent to all
[13:22] Fern Leissa: I agree we not rush to a vote. But Mikelo is right to bring this up
[13:23] Fern Leissa: I have assumed we all had the right of direct land sale
[13:23] Pip Torok: i dont think that the original thinking was to _restrict_ private sales …
[13:23] Fern Leissa: We have certainly been doing them I think
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: we always did imo
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: we do, but this law says it can be taken away
[13:24] Pip Torok: does it, Mikelo?
[13:24] Fern Leissa: 2009. Not that long ago…..
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: yes Tor?
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: um, I wonder if this law is somewhat archaic
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I would understand that Sudane might wnat to control when land is sold.
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: I wonder what caused the RA to adopt this law
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: or rather the fact that it has changed hands
[13:25] Fern Leissa: Exactly Lilith.
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: or monitor, yes, to do her job
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I belive that since this law, her sim monitors have been placed and now inform her of land changing hands.
[13:26] Pip Torok: but not beyond _monitor_ …
[13:26] Fern Leissa: We could ask that people report land sales to the exec w/out having “supervision” of the sales process
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I would point out, that since our spreadsheet is now on the blog and available via the kiosks, we have a central listing of all land for sale.
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: This list included priviate sales.
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: that said, I consider this law as optional
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: imo almighty Rudeen did always know when land changed hands
[13:27] Fern Leissa whispers: Hi Anna
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Anna
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: although authrorized to stop private sales, I will not.
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: are you talking about the whole thing, or just 33?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: nor intend to
[13:27] Anna Toussaint: Hi, all
[13:27] Pip Torok: ?me whispers too
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: yes, see, Tor could turn off sales right now
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: hi Anna
[13:27] Anna Toussaint:
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: the whole think seems to be unnessary to me.
[13:28] Pip Torok: and to me…
[13:28] Fern Leissa: Yeah. Don’t really like that Mikelo. No offense to Tor
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think private sales should be encouraged
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: well, any objections to me moving to strike the whole law?
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: yes I could that is in the estate powers
[13:28] Pip Torok thinks we’re all singing from the same hymn-sheet…
[13:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but I would not,
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to table that issue till next time so we can find out more about the reasons of that law
[13:29] Fern Leissa: I have no objections but would prefer to hold the vote til next time
[13:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Agreed, Lil
[13:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I would have not problem with a low forbidding the exec to do this.
[13:29] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will not read the term ‘authorized” as meaning compelled
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: even though we all seem to agree we dont like the law?
[13:30] Fern Leissa: In fact in general … I was thinking recently I’d perfer that we wait to vote in sessions following discussion
[13:30] Fern Leissa: Time to cogitate
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: yes, sometimes things can move quickly
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: yea but I dislike to vote about something without knowing all facts
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: maybe that’s how bad laws get passed…
[13:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed. I would like to research this more.
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: probably we should look in the transcripts for the reason behind this law.
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: that´s my plan
[13:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: .me nods.
[13:31] Fern Leissa: ?? You mean waiting Mikelo? or not waiting??
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: but I suspect the reason is no longer valid.
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: and I´d appreciate you doing that also
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: not waiting, rushing, can make for bad choices
[13:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Now, second point?
[13:31] Fern Leissa: ok
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: but I think we all agree about #3
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: looks like it
[13:32] Fern Leissa: At this point I would say the entire law
[13:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Personally, I’d love to hear about repealing the optional-faction amendment
[13:32] Pip Torok: me too
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: oh, ok
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: what about 2.?
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: we can move to the last if people want
[13:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: “CDSL 13-07: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession
Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law”
[13:34] Pip Torok: well imho this cannot hold while there are so few candidates and/or citizens
[13:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[13:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: This would make sense in a macronation, but not for us.
[13:35] Pip Torok: so I say repeal
[13:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Uh oh..
[13:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Mik’s crashed
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: looks like it
[13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t see there have been problems.
[13:35] Pip Torok: well were in a sense nonquorate till he’s back I suppose
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: one more reason to aquire more active citizens
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: true LIl
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: We aren’t?
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: the faction system is undemocratic.
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: We have 4 MPs…
[13:36] Pip Torok: we need 5 to be quorate?
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: 4/7 is the majority for a quorum
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: especialy when replacement RA members were needed.
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: 4 I think
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Tor
[13:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: I was elected because there were only 6 candidates..
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, but you were elected
[13:37] Pip Torok: i’d like to know what is being discussed … that factions no longer become optional but _required_ …?
[13:37] Lilith Ivory stares at the empty seats of Cindy and Gwyn
[13:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: Such a law, that restricts the number of candidates, may help to …”refresh” the legislature, but it’s a nightmare when you have so few people to refresh with.
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: under the faction system, the largest faction could just appoint you.
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: I was talking about Law 13-07
[13:38] Pip Torok: ah … sorry
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: the disussion about faction systems comes next if we have time left
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I’d rather like to see that factions are enforced again…
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: bad timing for a net drop
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: WB Mik ㋡
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: thx
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: wb Mik
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: one agenda item after the other please
[13:39] Pip Torok: i’d appreciate hearing the reasons, guillaume
[13:39] Fern Leissa: wb
[13:39] Pip Torok: wb
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: or are we done with point2?
[13:39] Mikelo Serevi: so, were we on the second still?
[13:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: And while the faction could just appoint you, such an appointment would be democratic in the fact that the people elected your faction.
[13:39] Pip Torok: I think so ….
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I disagree Guillaume
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: are we talking about Term Limits or factions now guys?
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: did my point about its practicality get through, or was I gone by then?
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: if anything that will just discourage even more people
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: and complicates our laws
[13:40] Pip Torok: what makes you believe the citizens wd find that prederable, Guillaume?
[13:40] Fern Leissa: Mikelo… I think we need to hear from you
[13:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, such is a system used by the EU… I much prefer FPTP, tbh., which is what you’re talking about I think.
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: ok, on 2 or 3?
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: are we done with 2??
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Point 2, I think
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: so Term Limits!
[13:41] Fern Leissa: How about 2
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, yes
[13:41] Fern Leissa: We’re all over the place lol
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: CDSL 13-07: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession
Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law.
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: ok, I have two points about it
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: thx guil
[13:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Welcome ㋡
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: one, this term we had too few candidates, so it’s not very practical to impose more limits
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker nods.
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: and two, term limits are really designed to prevent a presdident from becoming dictator, but we’re more senators
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: president
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: I just don’t know if it’s appropirate
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, and it’s not like many chancellors would want a second term ㋡
[13:43] Fern Leissa: I’m inclined to think that the best term limiting mechanism is citizens who vote you out of office
[13:44] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: well also, I think this was intended to push people out, or that was the feeling I got at this law’s passage
[13:44] Fern Leissa: Right Guillaume
[13:44] Pip Torok notices that “really designed” is an assertion expressing an opinion…
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: imo it was made so people holding an office don´t become too powerful
[13:45] Pip Torok: I propose CDSL 13-07 term limits Act be repealed
[13:45] Fern Leissa: Our problem of course is the non-participation of citizens… that is how you get tyrants unfortunatly
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: it is my opinion, I guess
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, let’s be honest… Have we ever been in danger of having a tyrant?
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: me wonders if we need 1/2 or 2/3 majority to change that
[13:46] Fern Leissa: yes…
[13:46] Mikelo Serevi: I think we have been
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: We have? I think alot of people would flip if they thought that their rights were being taken away.
[13:46] Pip Torok: we have but I doubt 13-07 wd have had an effect either way
[13:47] Fern Leissa: It is always possible.. that someone could move in and restructure laws while most of us are not paying attention
[13:47] Mikelo Serevi: I’m happy to second pip, but I’d like to know how ppl feel about it
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: I am in support.
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: imo the reason why this law was made was a good one
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: I third the proposal.
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:48] Anna Toussaint: question?
[13:48] Pip Torok: as am I (you wont be surprised to learn:)
[13:48] Fern Leissa: I reluctantly support for the reasons yu suggest Mikelo.
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: what exactly is the text of the proposal?
[13:48] Fern Leissa: We don’t have enough people as is
[13:48] Lilith Ivory: yes Anna?
[13:48] Anna Toussaint: it applies across the board?
[13:48] Fern Leissa: It would not be in our best interest to further restrict pp
[13:48] Anna Toussaint: to RA as well as Chancellor
[13:48] Anna Toussaint: ?
[13:48] Anna Toussaint: has it been applied?
[13:48] Anna Toussaint: enforced?
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: it doesn’t kick in yet
[13:49] Anna Toussaint: ah
[13:49] Anna Toussaint: ok
[13:49] Anna Toussaint: thnx
[13:49] Pip Torok: so … do i have a second?
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: what is the exact text?
[13:49] Fern Leissa: No directly elected office in the CDS Government
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: of the proposal
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: I second
[13:50] Pip Torok: I propose CDSL 13-07 term limits Act be repealed
[13:50] Fern Leissa: That would imply that it applies to the Chancellor too
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Second.
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: ok we can vote but I still wonder how much vote we need
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: CDSL 13-07: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession
Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: 1/2 or 2/3?
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: very short
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: of course I can find that out later hehe
[13:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Majority, no?
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: Idk yet
[13:51] Mikelo Serevi: it’s an act, not a constitutional amendment
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: yes?
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: Tor?
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: The act may have been mistitled
[13:52] Mikelo Serevi: I can’t find any mention of term limits in the constitution
[13:52] Lilith Ivory: mistittled?
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: The bill 13-04 expressly is making a chagne to the constitution
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: it is not a law.
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: it is an article of the constitution.
[13:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: This is 13-07….
[13:52] Fern Leissa: Can we also with on this guys? Two weeks til next session to vote?
[13:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: No?
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: and it would need a 2/3s majority
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: I´d prefer that so Gwyn and Cindy can ask for 7 day vote
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yes
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: i see sorry
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I stand corrected
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: or come ….
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: ino it would jsut need a majority.
[13:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, this is a law or amendment?
[13:53] Pip Torok: me too Lilith
[13:53] Guillaume Mistwalker is confused
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: this is a law, the other is an amendment
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: let´s table that also till next time so I can find out
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: and give the rest of RA a chance to vote also
[13:54] Mikelo Serevi: technically we have a second, but I’m ok with waiting to vote
[13:55] Pip Torok is agreeable to a motion that we table my motion
[13:55] Fern Leissa:
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: if you insist in voting now I´m fine with it also
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: we only have 5 min left anyway
[13:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Why not table #3, and vote now?
[13:55] Fern Leissa: Let let Mikelo get to three..
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Since 5 minutes isn’t enough to discuss #3.
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: so maybe I’ll have to take #3 to the forum and wait for next time
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: gonna table 3 anyway as we are out of time
[13:56] Fern Leissa: Then maybe we can vote on all next session …?
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: #3 is a big one
[13:56] Fern Leissa: ok:(
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: think it´s a good idea to vote at least about 1 and 2 next time
[13:57] Fern Leissa: Tx for bringing these to our attention Mikelo
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: and see what happends with 3
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: sure, thx for listening
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: anybody against this plan ?
[13:57] Pip Torok: no
[13:57] Fern Leissa: no
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: it’s a good plan
[13:57] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: ok
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: do we have RA members concerns?
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: None here
[13:59] Pip Torok: nor here
[13:59] Fern Leissa: not here
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: ah and before we come to announcements …
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: should we have the next meeting next sunday?
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: or in 14 days (easter sunday)
[13:59] Pip Torok: I’m agreeable
[13:59] Fern Leissa: Can’t make next sunday
[13:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oi…
[13:59] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[14:00] Anna Toussaint: 14 days isn’t easter sunday
[14:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, next Sunday would be better ㋡
[14:00] Anna Toussaint: at least in the States
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: or saturday maybe
[14:00] Anna Toussaint:
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt:
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: sigh lol
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: nor in Germany
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: next is better for me, or sat, yes
[14:00] Pip Torok: 9agreeable to next Sunday btw!;)
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: I´m confused hehe
[14:00] Anna Toussaint: two weeks from today is the 5th Sunday in Lent
[14:00] Fern Leissa: hehe.
[14:00] Anna Toussaint: easter is 4 weeks from today
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: my calendar told me bullshit hehe
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker whispers, “Anna’s an ex-minister…”
[14:01] Anna Toussaint: yes, Lil, it did
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: or is was my eyes
[14:01] Anna Toussaint: don’t blow my cover, G
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: you’ll have to wait for chocolate bunnies, sry
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a legal term.
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: so next sunday or in 14 day
[14:01] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:01] Pip Torok: next sunday…
[14:01] Mikelo Serevi: Im ok with next
[14:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Atleast you haven’t been around any altar boys, Anna…!
[14:02] Lilith Ivory: as we didn´t finish our agenda I´d like next sunday also
[14:02] Fern Leissa: hehe… and you would know this how Guillaume?
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Next Sunda is perfect for me
[14:02] Anna Toussaint: We presbyterians don’t have ’em, G
[14:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Good! Even better…!
[14:03] Fern Leissa: Ok. But I would request a 7 day vote. Can’t make next sunday . But ok with me
[14:03] Anna Toussaint: but we do have lady pastors
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: sounds like a mayority for next sunday hu?
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: ok Fern
[14:03] Fern Leissa: Danka
[14:03] Lilith Ivory: any announcements?
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: My church had alot of different pastors…
[14:03] Anna Toussaint: I’ll alert the media, G
[14:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Anglicans
[14:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hah!
[14:04] Mikelo Serevi: haha
[14:04] Lilith Ivory: no announcements??
[14:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: My only announcement is that Floralia is just in a few months, so I hope you’re all looking for your floral decorations! ㋡
[14:05] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: oohh, ok
[14:05] Anna Toussaint: Tor and I are trying to finalize the schedule
[14:05] Anna Toussaint: we’d appreciate input
[14:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: You both are always at liberty to IM me ㋡
[14:05] Anna Toussaint: check out the cool Floralia networked kiosks
[14:06] Anna Toussaint: I no longer have to travel to each kiosk to update them
[14:06] Fern Leissa: Saw those Anna. Very nice
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: cool!
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Very nice, yes ㋡
[14:06] Anna Toussaint: any suggestions for Floralia, IM Tor or me
[14:06] Fern Leissa: kk
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Especially the picture…!
[14:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: I wonder where the back-drop was
[14:07] Guillaume Mistwalker smiles.
[14:07] Anna Toussaint:
[14:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: Also, any suggestions or questions on the build, feel free to IM me
[14:08] Pip Torok: excuse me, but I’ll need to go quite soon …
[14:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s all from me
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: thank you
[14:09] Fern Leissa: Thank you Lilith
[14:09] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Seconded.
[14:10] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: all in favour say aye please
[14:10] Pip Torok: aye
[14:10] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:10] Mikelo Serevi: oops
[14:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[14:10] Fern Leissa: aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 10 April 2011

Transcript RA Meeting April 10
by Lilith Ivory » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:12 pm
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip, Hi Rosie, Hi Mikelo
[12:00] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[12:00] Rosie Gray: hello everyone
[12:01] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:01] Pip Torok: hi … funny how we all appear at once!
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: on the dot
[12:01] Pip Torok: hello Rosie!!
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: yea hehe
[12:01] Rosie Gray:
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: maybe you had a secret meeting before
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: I know you guys can´t have enough meetings
[12:02] Rosie Gray snickers quietly
[12:02] Mikelo Serevi: I was lounging at my apt
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gui
[12:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello!
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: cool you could make it in time
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes ㋡
[12:03] Pip Torok: hi Gui!
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: Fern and Gwyn can´t come today
[12:03] Pip Torok: shame
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Though, excuse me a second… there are some chocolate chip cookies calling me name…
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: ggrrrrr hehe
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: now I´m jealous
[12:03] Pip Torok: … cant keepem waiting!
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: fine, tease us
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: looks like we have a quorum already
[12:04] Pip Torok: good!
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: the agenda and some old notes I found about the issues we want to discuss are in the box
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: I did a little research and hope you did the same
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: ehhe
[12:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Back
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: wb Gui
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: agenda is in the box
[12:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thanks ㋡
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: let´s begin with citizens concerns
[12:06] Rosie Gray glances around
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: no concerns? all happy??
[12:07] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Sonja
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Rosie, are you concerned about something, dear?
[12:07] Rosie Gray: Hi Sonja
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Sonja!
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: great to see you
[12:07] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody!
[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: Sonja
[12:07] Sonja Strom:
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, great to see you! ㋡
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: RA members are allowed to be concerned also
[12:07] Rosie Gray: Thanks Guillaume, no I don’t actually
[12:07] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: Sonja do you have any concerns?
[12:08] Pip Torok: hi Sonja!
[12:09] Sonja Strom: No, no concerns that I want to raise, thank you.
[12:09] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: do you have any additions or chances to the agenda?
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: ok I take this for a no
[12:10] Pip Torok: cd I request making V earlier?
[12:10] Pip Torok: earlier than IV ?
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Imo IV and V are connected so we should do iV before V
[12:11] Pip Torok: ok
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: but we can vote if you want
[12:11] Mikelo Serevi: how are they connected?
[12:11] Pip Torok: no … let it stand
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: same bills were made from the same commission at the same time
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: for me it sounds logic to talk about IV first
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: but that´s only my opinion
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: true, they were passed around the same time
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: yup
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: and it´s in the order you gave me Mik
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: good point
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:13] Pip Torok:
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: so do we want to start with III?
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: seems to be most easy to discuss lol
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: I’m ok with that
[12:13] Pip Torok: ok too
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: good
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ok
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: wow, my items are the whole meeting
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: did anybody find out more about that law since we met last?
[12:14] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: you gave us a lot of work Mik
[12:14] Pip Torok: 13-07?
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: NL 9-3
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: I haven’t researched the stated reasons for it myself. I think the purposeis within the law itself
[12:16] Pip Torok: does anyone have the URL to 9-3?
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: Mikelo?
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=241
[12:16] Pip Torok: in that casse I suggest we discuss the present state of land listing
[12:16] Pip Torok: tks
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: The last time, as I recall, we were discusing whether removing both #3s or repealing the whole thing
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: was best
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: well, this law was made in the pre TP aera to prevent unhappy citzens to set thier land for sale for a horrible high prize
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: pre tp?
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: The Princess Parisi
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: ohh, lol
[12:18] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:18] Pip Torok: in that case what shall we do with it?
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: I would just let it like it is as it does not harm anybody
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: but how is selling at a high price different from not selling?
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: it was just made to help the exec in the worst case
[12:19] Pip Torok: it seems to me that the present arrangement works(?) reasonably smoothly
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: we had a huge yellow spot on the map for a long time
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: well, you can say that’s why it was made, but in fact the exec could invoke this arbitrarily
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: was quite good land but of course nobody wanted to buy it as it wes terrible expensive
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: I remember the situation now
[12:20] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: I even looked at the land
[12:20] Pip Torok: but has the worst case happened/ .. and is there danger of it happening again .. I suggest it won’t
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: same here
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: My point about this is that it’s essentially statist
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: if the worst case does not happen nobody will use that law
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: meaning, a few people can decide how everything goes for everyone
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: but if it happends again we need a lot of time to create a law again
[12:21] Pip Torok: well if land is too expensive to sell .. it just lies there!! … QED probkem “solved”
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I think it can take away our freedm to sell our own land
[12:21] Pip Torok: i’m SURE it can, mikelo
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: sure could if an exec goes crazy
[12:22] Mikelo Serevi: So it’s a bad law, thoguht the reason might have sounded good at the time
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: but don´t we all trust our government
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:22] Pip Torok: imo the price and the consequence of setting land too high or low rests squarely with the landowner
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker noids
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: *nods
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: the state shouldn’t have the right to take private sales away
[12:23] Pip Torok: I hear it’s known as the “market”!!
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: in the former case land sales were only used to hurt CDS
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: but I´m fine either way
[12:24] Pip Torok: ??
[12:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: Perhaps it’s me, but where does it say that, Mik?
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: you are looking at 9-3?
[12:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes
[12:24] Pip Torok: it doesnt SAY it Gui .. thats miks opinion
[12:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see.
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: wait, what is?
[12:25] Pip Torok: what you said ….
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: the law clearly states the exec can turn off the SL land sales
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: The “direct sale function” clause?
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: under #3
[12:25] Pip Torok: Mikelo Serevi: the state shouldn’t have the right to take private sales away
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi: oh, yes, that part is my opinion
[12:26] Pip Torok: and mine too, as you will have gathered
[12:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Has that function been disabled?
[12:26] Pip Torok: I dont think it was ever put into operation Gui …
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: I can´t remember it has been
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: as we didn´t need it so far
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: no, but it could be, the requirements have been met
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed.
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s my point.
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: and hopefully we will never need it
[12:27] Pip Torok: to start with .. who can really assess the calibre of price-levels without seeing what actually sells?
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: I think a person who is misbehaving needs to be delat with directly, not by limiting everyone
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: dealt
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Give me a scenario where that’s happened.
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: Please ㋡
[12:29] Pip Torok: btw was this in princess time or CLEO’s?
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: Princess time
[12:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: (Princess time?)
[12:29] Pip Torok: please Gui .. I suggest this is procrastimating
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: didn´t she have most of downtow CN for sale?
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: Anyway, I think this is the wrong law to deal with this kind of thing anyway
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: but you need a law to deal with a misbehaving person imo
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: My concern is, how would such a central system be operated and run in such an event.
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: lots of bad laws get passed with an enemy as the excuse
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: And who would.
[12:31] Pip Torok: exactly … now the way to go … do we repeal the whole thing?
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, what system are you suggesting in place of this, Pip?
[12:32] Pip Torok: My suggestion is to leave the whole function to the discretion of the Exec …
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: Well, only #1 really applies
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: what does that mean exactly Pip?
[12:32] Pip Torok: and not to pass legislation .. simply repeal existing bad legislation
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: #2 appears to refer to another law
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Isn’t your suggestion the near same as the law?
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: don´t forget english is not my first language please
[12:33] Pip Torok: no … because discretion is not binding upon the parties
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: You do quite well, lilith
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: I just want to understand exactly what Pip means
[12:34] Pip Torok: well .. the exec atm list land for sale in the Forum and sellers update this
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but isn’t the exec given discretion under this law?
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: in #1, yes
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: before, it was mainly Sudane, am I right?
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: I understand you want the exec deal with this like they want?
[12:35] Pip Torok: ppl buy and sell freely via forum and everyone is happy I believe … therefore no law needed
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: although, I see no reason why the exec couldn’t still facilitate, as he does now
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: I think we should remove the whole law, rather than leave a snippet
[12:35] Pip Torok: thats right, Lilith …
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see this law as a temporary solution in the event someone does go off the deep end and sells all their parcels
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: I see
[12:36] Pip Torok: “if it works, don’t fix it”
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: And isn’t this Law giving the Exec. discretion to do that, Pip?
[12:36] Pip Torok: i see it as a halter round our necks …
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: yes, but next time a person might go off the deep end and do something else
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: There are many things we can do when we go off the deep end, Mik ㋡
[12:37] Pip Torok: disagree .. lets deal with ACTUAL worst cases, not hypothetical ones
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: what Pip suggests might give the exec even more power to stop private land sales
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: And that’s what I asked for – actual worst cases.
[12:37] Mikelo Serevi: well, repealing won’t grant that power, anyway
[12:37] Pip Torok: only if they went completely round the bend! .. and they ARE accountable to us, Lilith
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: I know that
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: I feel like you’re for repealing this law for the same reason I think it was implimented
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: guil, I guess having someone sell their land at a really really high pricewas the worst I’ve heard
[12:38] Pip Torok: (“round the bed = insane, Lilith)
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: lol got that
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: I just wonder why you want to take that law back and give the exec the power to do it anyway
[12:38] Pip Torok: but Mik … all that wd happen is 1) the land wdnt be sold or 2) some fool wd buy the land
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: I agree, Pip
[12:39] Pip Torok: well that law has never been put into practice …
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: We can always just change the law after he does it, but why now when there aren’t any reasons to change it?
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you Gui
[12:40] Pip Torok: well precisely because it IS serving no useful purpose, gui
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: imo a lot of smart people were thinking about this law before it got aproved
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: you might have even been one of them Pip
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I think it having a potential purpose is better than leaving it up to the discretionof the exec
[12:40] Pip Torok: I hope not!
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: but you were in the RA at this time right ?
[12:41] Pip Torok: because we still have an insurmountable hurdle … who knows when a price is exorbitant??
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: I totally agree with you Gui
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thanks ㋡
[12:42] Pip Torok: maybe … but that was then, this is now
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Though, it looks like we’re at a dead-lock…
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: well, without this law, the exec won’t be granted any specifi power over land sales
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pip, things don’t change *that* fast, I think it still applies to now
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: it would be shared with the treasury, like before
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: How about the other part of it, then?
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: imo exec has some power over land sales anyway
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree, Lil
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: the other thing about it that bothers me is that I think it was part of a trend to centralize power, and I really oppose that
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: some smart people maybe thought they were smarter than everyone else…
[12:44] Pip Torok: my point entirely Mik …
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Centralise the power from where, exactly?
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: I can´t even remember who was in power Jan 2009 lol
[12:44] Pip Torok: from where I see it, the exec are performing a service by informing us all of current sales
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: in the state
[12:45] Pip Torok: from the power of a buyer and seller to do their own thing, Guillaume
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: There is no other body in the state that had power over land sales before the law was passed, was there?
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: I think some power needs to be held, but not over things like private land sales
[12:46] Pip Torok: no Gui …
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: I think unowned parcels were dealt with by the treasury
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I don’t think that that right is abridged yet or would be without reason.
[12:46] Pip Torok: ??
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: The law doesn’t say that
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: The right for a buyer to buy or a seller to sell.
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: it just says it can be enacted
[12:46] Pip Torok: I didnt understand, Guillaume
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Exactly.
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Enacted, within reason
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: The Exec. would act as a mediator
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: Once you have the power, you can give any reason you like
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: or no reason
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: and imo the RA has to give allowance to do so
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: well, this law says nothing about opinion, it just grants powe
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: r
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, the Exec already has the power, but he hasn’t had the reason to use it
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not saying I distrust tor
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: I just think this is to much power
[12:48] Pip Torok: exactly … and so the whole law is redundant and should be repealed
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: what if this law were passed in RL?
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Nor am I, but let’s be real and not work on the hypothetical, as you said
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: I have to sell my house through the govt?
[12:49] Pip Torok: I hope not, Mik!
[12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: Obviously, many would have qualms with this in RL, but this isn’t RL
[12:49] Pip Torok: but the intrusion wd apply equally in sl as it wd do in RL …
[12:49] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t see the difference here
[12:49] Long Range: danialthomas44 Resident [43m] [12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: We must repond to parcels being sold — working with your example — at high prices
[12:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: Do I hear…
[12:50] Pip Torok: must respond???? how??
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Arabic music?
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: someone was playing it in voice, gone now
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah.
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: lol
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha ㋡
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: did he leave or was he kicked?
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Leave, I think
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: I sort of liked it. ㋡
[12:50] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: But, Pip, if we didn’t respond to high prices, then the parcel would mostlikely not sell
[12:51] Pip Torok: anyway Guillaume .. WHY must we respond?
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: want me to put my arabic music stram here?
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Is that good for ANY PARTY?
[12:51] Pip Torok: exactly and so the situation wd correct itself via a non-sale
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: *meant to capitalise the “any”
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but obviously the seller wanted to let go of their financial obligation on that parcel whilst gaining money
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: The buyer wants to buy
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: And we generally want tiers being paid
[12:52] Pip Torok: “obviously” … i dont get “obviously”
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: this person was also not paying tier, but Tor’s law closed that hole
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: High prices lower the chances of a parcel being bought
[12:53] Pip Torok: yes … but tiers are fixed on the onset of occupartion
[12:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: That’s good
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: at the time, it appeared she was just trying to make the place look bad
[12:53] Pip Torok: so what guillaume … thats the concern of seller and buyer …
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: but because someone is doing that in CN, I can’t sell in AM?
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I argue that any democratic government has a right to look out for its interests of the state as well
[12:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: If you want, I would argue a small revision of the act, then.
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: it does yes, without infringing on personal freedoms
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: but this is quite an intrusion
[12:55] Pip Torok: and my argument is that a democratic government shd realise what is the citizens concern alone, and what neeeds wider involvement
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: Have the Exec. act as mediator in certain cases to promote the transfer of parcels
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: wouldn’t the exec do that anyway?
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but by the means of this central system on a case-by-case system
[12:56] Pip Torok: no … imo that wd be an intrusion upon citizens activities…
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Therefore, if I was selling for alot of money, then Mik’s or Pip’s sale wouldn’t be hindered
[12:56] Pip Torok: imo buying/selling is selfregulating
[12:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: It would be an intrusion within reason
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think there could be a law to cover all cases
[12:57] Pip Torok: i dont think one sale wd affect another sale
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: someone would just look at the law and find a way to toe it
[12:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: If there’s any other qualms, have the money that’s raised go to the seller (which, I don’t think the law specifies…)
[12:58] Pip Torok: DISAGREE
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: anyway, I think this “reason” for the law is an excuse to take that power away froom everyone
[12:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Disagree?
[12:58] Pip Torok: money is _private_ to either party
[12:58] Pip Torok: imo
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, you don’t want the money that the buyer pays to the government for one’s parcel go to the one who sells the parcel?
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: also, the current system, while not perfect, is well understood
[12:59] Pip Torok: i want the government to be totally uninvolved i private sales, period
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: but why should the govt be involved?
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, which hinders the system that sets up by this bill, which makes its power limited.
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: To preserve the integrity of the sims
[13:00] Pip Torok: so scrap the bill, guillaume … is there a problem with that?
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: What’s next? wiretapping laws?
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: If I sell very high and sell all my parcels, what does that show about us?
[13:00] Mikelo Serevi: for the good of ther state, of course
[13:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: For the good of the Democracy, Mik
[13:00] Pip Torok: it shows that we are an interesting sim, guillaume!
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: so you would support wiretapping?
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: if I said it was for democracy?
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: It shows that we’re selling a small parcel for a large sum of money
[13:01] Sonja Strom giggles
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Do you want my honest opinion, Mik?
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: you weren’t giving it before?
[13:02] Pip Torok: Guillaume in SL and RL ppl are FREE to buy or sell at any agreed price … just what is the problem with that?
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: No, I just wasn’t sure if I should or not
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: why not?
[13:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: I think that a government, whose legitimacy is found on the democratic will of the people, has the right to protect the security and integrity of the same people it finds its legitimacy from
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: by limiting their freedom?
[13:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, having known people who work for NSA, they only wiretap people for whom fit their suspicions
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: well, so they say, but they would
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t agree with those whom they suspect, but I agree with the principle
[13:04] Pip Torok: yes and the protection resides in the noninvolvement of that government in the private affairs of its citizens
[13:04] Sonja Strom: who they suspect… this can be an issue.
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: Which is my issue, too, Sonja
[13:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: The princple, no.
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: there’s a line, where no one should intrude
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: the reason I brought it up is because it’s the same kind of insinuation into people’s lives
[13:05] Sonja Strom begins to wonder about the others in this room (only kidding)
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: govts that have done this are not good ones
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: we’re really talking about communal land sales
[13:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: To who’s perception?
[13:06] Pip Torok: I propose that NL 9-3 be repealed
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: mandatory communal land sales
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: I second
[13:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Actually, I was talking about the governments comment.
[13:07] Pip Torok: may I respectfully suggest we move to a vote?
[13:07] Pip Torok: weve gone round in circles here…
[13:08] Lilith Ivory: well let´s vote than or do we need more discussion?
[13:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m good to vote
[13:08] Pip Torok: lets vote
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:08] Lilith Ivory: anybody in favour for repealing NL 9-3 say aye please
[13:08] Pip Torok: aye
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:09] Lilith Ivory: Gui?
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[13:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: nay
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi has a heart attack
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: we might have to wait for our 7 day votes to see the result
[13:10] Pip Torok revives him
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: guil really knows how to keep suspense
[13:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, I also know how to be indecisive ㋡
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: thinking is a good thing
[13:11] Pip Torok: well we certainly had a debate!! )
[13:11] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:11] Lilith Ivory likes debates
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: well, the other item should be easy
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: ya think so?
[13:12] Pip Torok: (famous last words ….
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: er
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Term limits, yes, I think
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: ok let´s move forward to IV than
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Factions, no…
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: true, yes
[13:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t think that the law makes sense anymore
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: why not?
[13:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Afterall, last election we didn’t have enough candidates
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: of, so the term limit act
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=422
[13:13] Pip Torok: 13-07 was introduced to stop ppl becoming near-permanent fixtures in a position …
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, that was one objection to it
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: maybe we should split terms for being chancelor and for RA members
[13:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, there are 7 of us and one chancellor…
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: I see that we have a problem to get enough RA candidates
[13:14] Pip Torok: but when you think of it … when there are not enough ppl , when there are too few incomers … when there is apathy …
[13:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: So, next election, we will just have 8 candidates…
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: but with Chancellor it´s different
[13:14] Pip Torok: what then?
[13:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: We need to either amend the time period or repeal
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: somehow I wonder wether we only need 5 RA candidates next term
[13:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, we do have two RA members who haven’t shown their faces in some time…
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: I think we should treat Chancellor and RA different
[13:16] Pip Torok: we do dont we?
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: the time period seems to fit anything over a certain length
[13:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Chancellor should remain the same, but RA shouldn’t?
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: yes as chancellor sure has a lot of power …
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: well, I think it’s more likely that a chancellor could be a dictator
[13:16] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes
[13:16] Lilith Ivory: whie we have problems to find enough RA candidates at the moment
[13:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: did you read Gwyns note I included in the box?
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: we have actually had that problem with chancellors as well
[13:17] Pip Torok: yes but the chancellor can always be thrown out … and so cant become dictatorial
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: she said a lot of smart things about that
[13:17] Pip Torok: yes and its now history QED
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: I agree, Pip
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: Hiya Alexia
[13:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Alexia ㋡
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: or they couldn’t become a dictator without help from the RA
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: but in that case, we’re screwed anyway
[13:18] Pip Torok: with that “help” we neednt hinder!
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: reading the notecard
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: hope it´s the right one lol
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: had a hard time to find that info
[13:20] Pip Torok: so … Term limits … imo in the present paucity of citizens and change, imo its become a deadletter
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: so this was mainly passed because some people thought the same people were in power
[13:21] Pip Torok: yes … and it was totally redundant imo because ppl CAN ALWAYS BE VOTED OUT
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: I think apathy may have had as much to do with that as anything
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: wasn´t you against concentration of power before?
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: if we take this law back we have exactly this case lol
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: well, the RA is re-elected, or not
[13:22] Pip Torok: me? or mik?
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: accountable
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: whoever said that
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: I’m against the concentration of power, yes
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: but not against some people being elected to hold it
[13:23] Pip Torok: yes me too but i have trust in the constitution to prevent it
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: and having term limits for the Chnacellor might encourage other citizens to run
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: there will always be power, it’s how to fairly apply it
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: Not that I mind having Tor as Chancellor forever ,-)
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: he’s doing well, yes
[13:24] Pip Torok: imo the system is selfcorrecting … if a chancellor has too much power … then he/she will be callenged every 6 months
[13:24] Pip Torok: (or is it 12 months?)
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: should be 6
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: same as for the RA
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: wasn´t it 12?
[13:25] Pip Torok: how stands the law atm?
[13:25] Lilith Ivory blushes
[13:25] Pip Torok: if its 12 then I wd have opposed it
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: 12 was the limit
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: 2 terms, then at least one out
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: yes think so too
[13:26] Pip Torok: well in this term as it happens we’re lucky … I hope it lasts …
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: looking at our situation now I´d go for keeping thae law for chancellor election and taking it back for RA
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: it’s not a job just anyone can do, we’ve been pretty lucky so far
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve been on the fence about that, Lilith, but my stance is to just repeal
[13:28] Pip Torok wd be unhappy if the law became unuqually applied to two bodies
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: there are big differences between RA and exec anyway
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: so why not split this law
[13:28] Lilith Ivory is building golden bridges
[13:28] Lilith Ivory: ehhe
[13:29] Pip Torok: itll be one law for one body, another for a second … divisive!
[13:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: I agree with Lil
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: this law already is not for all our bodies
[13:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: We have more candidates for Chancellor than the RA
[13:30] Lilith Ivory: think about SC
[13:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, we do have it divded in the USA already
[13:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Mik
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi: although I would be first to say I don’t think the CDS should emulate the USA
[13:31] Pip Torok is unhappy to tinker with forethought at the foundations of our Constitution
[13:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, same
[13:31] Pip Torok: … without forethought
[13:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: We aren’t tinkering, we’re having to meet the current needs
[13:32] Pip Torok: when that happens, decisions are made “on the fly” often very bad ones
[13:32] Lilith Ivory: didn´t you say the past does not matter anymore ?
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: Of course, if the factions bill is repealed, this will all be moot anyway
[13:33] Pip Torok: “if if’s and and’s were pots and pans ….”
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:34] Lilith Ivory is going to fight like a lioness for keeping the faction bill ;_)
[13:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Let’snot get ahea of ouselves…
[13:34] Mikelo Serevi: well, we could change the law to say the Chancellor, although it was worded to include any elected person
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: we should change the words
[13:35] Pip Torok: meanwhile, Ladies and Gentlemen we still have Term Limits to talk about .. or have we finished?
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: so it would be out of date if a new office were created or brought on as an elected position
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: that is, if we specified only the chancellor
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: if a new office would be created we would have to decide about election rules anyway
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: yes, true
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: I propose we amend CDSL 13-07 to read “No elected office of the Executive branch in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession
Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits la”
[13:36] Pip Torok: exactly … and we havent even defined this “new office”
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: true pip, just thinking ahead
[13:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: …Adding a W to the end of “law” too ㋡
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: and motion and second to Guis proposal?
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, interesting
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: I might be on board with this
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, if you are, can you second please?
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hehe
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: I was waiting for Pip to chime in
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, yes
[13:38] Lilith Ivory wonders wether Ms LRA can second herself lol
[13:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: I think you can
[13:39] Pip Torok: only with a very small drafting amendment: substitute “same citizen FOR more” … etc
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: sounds good to me
[13:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: I propose we amend CDSL 13-07 to read “No elected office of the Executive branch in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen for more than two terms in succession
Anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law”
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: so with a ‘w’ and for
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: second
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: all in favour for this proposal say aye please
[13:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:41] Pip Torok: well if this passes then I wonder how long we the RA will continue …
[13:41] Pip Torok: nay
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: again we have to wait for 7 day votes
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: ok
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: and I don´t see why you are concerned about the RA Pip
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Now, for the moment we’ve all been waiting for…!
[13:42] Pip Torok: (sorry for not seeing that voting had already started, madame LRA)
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: only a few minutes left
[13:42] Sonja Strom: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!!
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: unfortunately I have to leave in time today
[13:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shall we table the amendment?
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: 15 min
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: could we meet next week?
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: we can do that
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: hopefully with Cindy and Gwyn lol
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, I think that the amendment… will be a heavy discussion
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: I think so also
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: I think the 30 min scheduled was optimistic anyway
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: sure we won´t make it in 15 minutes
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hehe
[13:43] Pip Torok: well we certainly need their vote and input imo
[13:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: or if we did, we wouldn’t be doing our jobs
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: I agree with you on that Pip
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: right Mik
[13:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Member concerns?
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: Announcements?
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: None here
[13:45] Pip Torok: nor from here
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: some fun story to tell??
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker laughs
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: we are the story in this place
[13:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Good answer, Mik…!
[13:45] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: often funny
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: was a quite entertaining meeting today
[13:46] Pip Torok: “A funny thing happened to me on my way to the Forum” …
[13:46] Sonja Strom: “There was once a man whose son’s asked him to tell them a story.”
[13:46] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: welcome Aurel
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Move to adjourn, Mme LRA?
[13:46] Sonja Strom: “So, he said, ‘There was once a man whose son’s asked him to tell them a story.”
[13:46] Pip Torok: secoded
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:46] Pip Torok: seconded
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello, Aurel!
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: anybody in favour say aye please
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: And Poof…
[13:47] Pip Torok: aye
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[13:47] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: first time we think alike today hehe
[13:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[13:47] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:47] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[13:47] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t know, this has been a pretty good RA overall

Permalink.

RA Meeting 1 May 2011

Transcript RA Meeting May 1
by Lilith Ivory » Sun May 01, 2011 2:38 pm
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: think we can start now
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi Soro
[12:04] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[12:04] Soro Dagostino: Hello Fern.
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: the agenda is in the box on the table
[12:04] Soro Dagostino: Pip — good day.
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: do we have any citizens concerns?
[12:05] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:05] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: yes Rosie?
[12:06] Rosie Gray: I was wondering about all of the unused classrooms above NFS, and all of the prims used there
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: 246 prims.
[12:06] Rosie Gray: seems to me that those classrooms aren’t used anymore, and the prims could be put to better use elsewhere
[12:06] Rosie Gray: and,
[12:06] Rosie Gray: not to put too fine a point on it
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: /is impressed Guil knew that off the top of his head
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: (I was talking to Tor about it earlier ㋡ )
[12:07] Rosie Gray: it rather irritates me that I have to pay for little prim allotments, extra
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: haven´t those prims to do with the GMP?
[12:07] Rosie Gray: so that I can have enough prims to actually do anythin on my little lots on NFS
[12:07] Rosie Gray: when they are sitting there
[12:07] Rosie Gray: finished!
[12:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: Some, but most are seats, chairs, tables and parts of the buildings of the classrooms.
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: hmmm …
[12:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: I just talked to Tor earlier today about getting rid of them and IM’d Moon
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: yea seems like a good idea to contact the guild
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: 246 prims alot when the parcel is meant to have some 600, I believe.
[12:09] Rosie Gray: the chairs themselves take up quite a bit
[12:09] Rosie Gray: old-build chairs
[12:09] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, some 8 or 9 prims each
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: And one class room is entirely empty and one is not in use, just has chairs and a table with snapshots.
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: One, however, contains the GMP
[12:10] Rosie Gray nods
[12:10] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m going to be building a new one and presenting it to the Guild for their consideration
[12:10] Pip Torok: is it practical to move them into an inventory somewhere?
[12:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, perhaps the CA, Pip?
[12:11] Pip Torok: after all NFS prims are in short supply
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: imo the owner should be contacted
[12:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Very much so, yes.
[12:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: I will be contacting Sudane, Brian and Sleazy later
[12:11] Pip Torok: but on condition that they can be reinstated quickly of course
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: ooh does sleazy own some of the items?
[12:12] Rosie Gray: if they are ever required
[12:12] Rosie Gray doubts they will be required
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: he does not seem to be inworld any longer
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, she owns the classroom with the GMP
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Or, he, rather ㋡
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: it´s a he
[12:12] Pip Torok: items in the church are sleazys 9or at least some)
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: very nice guy
[12:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Shame…!
[12:13] Pip Torok wonders if he’ll ever meet Sleazy …
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Excuse me for a few minutes…
[12:13] Rosie Gray has never even heard of Sleazy
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: he left winter 2007/08
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: There’s a nice carton of my favourite ice cream in the fridge…
[12:13] Fern Leissa: Wow.. long time gone
[12:13] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: any other citizens concerns?
[12:14] Soro Dagostino: Is he a landowner in CDS?
[12:14] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: not that I mind chatting about sleazy ;-9
[12:14] Pip Torok: not that i know of, Soro
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: sleazy? not any more
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: what do you have Sorro?
[12:15] Soro Dagostino: I have a concern about the return of factions without a vote of the people.
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: I am concerned about that also
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: I wish there had been a disscission on the forum in the meantime
[12:16] Soro Dagostino: While I am opposed to that, its up to the voters.
[12:16] Mikelo Serevi: Well, was it decided to remove factions by referendum?
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: nothing has been decided so far
[12:17] Pip Torok: Soro … we’re still at a discussion phase right now … in tractice i would hold out for a referendum on this matter if we ever get that far
[12:17] Soro Dagostino: I have expressed my concern.
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: thank you Sorro
[12:18] Pip Torok: no mikelo because the issue of referendums came later
[12:18] Soro Dagostino: I think Ra would be remiss if it took that decision away from the people.
[12:18] Fern Leissa: I think Mikelo’s question Lilith was whether or not the decision to make membership in factions optional was by refereudum
[12:18] Fern Leissa: It’ wasn’t I think ???
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi:
[12:18] Fern Leissa: But I’m in agreement with Soro… I think we need to determine voter preference
[12:19] Pip Torok: quite so Soro, tho its a hypothesis at this stage
[12:19] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ethically, I am prompted to agree with Soro
[12:19] Fern Leissa: As I said on the forum… I like factions but I have no idea what other citizens want
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: It is an interesting idea
[12:19] Soro Dagostino: Pip, nothing arouind here is a hypothetical.
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: that´s what Mikelo wrote in the note he gave me:
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: 3. Discuss repealing Jamie’s (apparently not documented in the code, though the constitutional amendment was enacted) Amendment to make factions optional
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: nothing been said about a referendum or not
[12:19] Pip Torok: ok .. Soro, whatever you say!
[12:20] Pip Torok: hi Tor
[12:20] Rosie Gray: hello Tor
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: I don´t mind factions also but those are stillok with that law anyway
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: hello all
[12:20] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello, Herr Chancellor ㋡
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor
[12:21] Fern Leissa: I think Soro is trying right in trying to figure out what citizens want. A referendum is just one way to do that
[12:21] Pip Torok regrets he didnt add to the Forum discussion on factions
[12:21] Fern Leissa: Hi Tor
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: I think the lack of factions is dangerous to the political stability of the CDS
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I agree
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: you are still free to found a new one
[12:21] Guillaume Mistwalker: But, we have a duty to the people
[12:22] Pip Torok: yes but they wont be absent whenever a candidate declares himself as a memeber of a faction
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: I´m concerned that there seemed to be no action from the existing factions also
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: so I wonder why they are so important to you
[12:22] Mikelo Serevi: Making factions optional made them irrelevant
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, Mik
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: tha´t waht you think
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: I disagree
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think so
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s an identification for the voter
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: An aid, for the voter.
[12:23] Mikelo Serevi: anyone can run for anything, effectively blurring the lines
[12:23] Pip Torok: well to start with they frame a set of principles and RA members can be held accountable to those principles
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: the voter can still vote for people being in a faction
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Question
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: and candidates can show to which faction they belong
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: yes Tor?
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Are the platformes of the existing factions very different. I don’t recolect that they are
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: both were for expansion for instance
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: some issues are easy to agree on
[12:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but it’s an aid for candidates to identify themselves with, and by making them optional it has damaged the electorate’s ability to indentify the sound candidates that want.
[12:24] Pip Torok: well they are certainly broad, Tor .. and possibly “wishy-washy ” … but thats not the point
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: but I think they stood for different things
[12:25] Pip Torok: the point is they can stand for very spefific sets of policies if need be
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: in fact I´m way disappointed I got no proposals from the factions so far
[12:25] Fern Leissa: I agree w/ Guillaume
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Well if they don’t stand for something then they are only ways for a few leaders to control who sits on RA
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: Factions disagree just as much as individuals agree. Pip and I are of the same faction, but we surely don’t agree all the time
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Tor
[12:26] Pip Torok: yes Tor … but they do (ill set you a set of the DPU’s)
[12:26] Soro Dagostino: What of the independent voter?
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: ok in the past, correct me ifI am worng
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Factions have lead to bitter disputes
[12:26] Pip Torok: thats GUI … DPU is a “broad church”//…
[12:26] Soro Dagostino: You are forcing them to join a group.
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: the way DPU acted during the last few elections was not democratic at all. It is NOT not acceptable to have only one or two candidates on the list but present more after the elections.
[12:26] Tor Karlsvalt: people have been seated and neve stood for election
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi: independent voters can create their own faction
[12:26] Pip Torok: 9meant to say thats right, guillaume)
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: right Tor
[12:27] Soro Dagostino: Whe do they need to?
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: The facton system, from an american pov is undemocratic
[12:27] Soro Dagostino: Are they not citizens.
[12:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but people even who are independent, no?
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: we only have two factions at the moment anyway and both seem to be asleep
[12:27] Fern Leissa: heh
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: You’re saying political parties are undemocratic?
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[12:27] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:28] Guillaume Mistwalker smiles at Mik
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: there have been no public faction meetings at all this term right?
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: when you vote for an individual no
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: the way DPU handles elections is undemocratic for sure
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: butour faction system allowed for unelected people to sit on FA
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: RA
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t see that at all
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: now you’re just making things up
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: The argument to drop mandatory factions for candidates was that they were essentially contentious
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: fact of live Mikelo
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: I want at least to know which people are in a faction I vote for
[12:29] Fern Leissa: There has not been a need for public faction meeting cuz they have no public function as “optional”.
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi: As if somehow they were removed, everything would be lovely
[12:29] Pip Torok: imo the problem for both factions has been that the matters the ra has found itself coping with dont have bearing upon their respective platforms
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Candidates can still align with factions
[12:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye, Pip
[12:29] Fern Leissa: We are all sitting here “unelected” because not enough pp ran. That was not under the faction system
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: exactly Tor
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: people can still use them as a guide
[12:29] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think dropping factions has made everyone get along better
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ahem!
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m sitting here elected!
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: true guil
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: and it´s the facion leaders themself that made them irrelevant
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: to use your words Mik
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: only because G that there was no faction system
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: Not exactly
[12:30] Fern Leissa: True Guillaume. Just you though
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:30] Pip Torok: me too but they are very few voters nonetheless
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: How?
[12:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: I’m a mamber of a faction
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Whew, member.
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: in the past you would have been appt by the faction who owned your seat, I beleive
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but that system’s changed
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, but you are arguing to return to that system
[12:31] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t believe that revoking this amendment will require it of us to return to that
[12:31] Pip Torok: thats right Tor and thats why personally i favour voting for ra members … but
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: it scares me that a faction leader can apoint anybody he likes as RA member
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: thats only under special circumstances
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Surely we can amend the constitution again, no?
[12:32] Fern Leissa: But that faction won the most votes. Theoretically. So I don’t find that so strange
[12:32] Pip Torok: when the ra members shows he belongs to a faction, then the voter knows the principles to which that candidate holds
[12:32] Soro Dagostino: With a vote of people.
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: we had those circumstances past every election for a very long time
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: If we do return to that system before, we ought to provide voting lists.
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: Right Pip
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I find that undemocratic
[12:32] Tor Karlsvalt: also complicated
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: gives us the look of an autocracy
[12:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: What? PR voting?
[12:33] Fern Leissa: But I would like to hear from more citizens. Really.
[12:33] Soro Dagostino: Old boy/girl school
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: appointing members
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: I think this is all theory anyway, the reason factions were removed was not for any of these reasons
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: I believe factions were taken away to make the CDS more of a two-party system
[12:33] Fern Leissa: Go on Mikelo
[12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: in my country this lends itself to the backroom deals that reformers have compainged against for over a century
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: allowing a minority group to get more power than they had before
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: Seed…
[12:34] Pip Torok questions the appearance of autocracy when there is nothing to stop any citizen from standing
[12:34] Lilith Ivory raises an eyebrow
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: they were taken away to muddy the water
[12:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: And muddied it too much, Mik
[12:34] Pip Torok: i dont see that, Mikelo … muddy waters?
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: because proportional representation went away at the same time
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye.
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: I have no iodea what you are talking about
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: so we vote for people without knowing what they stand for
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: We need a new PR system
[12:35] Pip Torok: went away?
[12:35] Fern Leissa: PR system Guillaume?
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: lol your faction programms don´t say anything also
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: part of the the change removed that aspect of our election system
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Proportional Representation, Fern
[12:36] Fern Leissa: tx guys
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: if you know a person you should know what he/she stands for
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: Sorry Pip, I meant, with individuals running, voters were bound to be confused
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: But some don’t
[12:37] Pip Torok: I beg to differ, Mikelo … in general CDS citizens are not confused by that
[12:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: And whilst factions may not say much, they give abstract ideas that many can relate to
[12:37] Pip Torok: exactly, Guillaume
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: but the factions still exist
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: they can still put their plan forward
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Because, of course, in parliament, you can not be called to sit on your platform all the time. There will be things that arise that are not on the platform
[12:38] Pip Torok: the bonus being that a voter can see where a candidate whos in a faction is “coming from”
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Or, not expressly on the platform
[12:38] Fern Leissa: agree with Pip
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: they can still do that Pip
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes, but the factions are not as strong, Tor
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: only because apparently the ppl don’t want them to be strong
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: It would be much better if humans weren’t so divisive, but sadly- we are.
[12:39] Pip Torok: and more importantly they can be held to account on the basis of a factions principles, Tor
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: We need factions,because they are our human nature.
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: But making them chartered institutions with rights to seat members will make them strong and undemocratic
[12:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: Precisely, Pip
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: Well also, proportional representation allows everyone to have a voice
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: if people would want to have the faction system back why don´t they vote for faction members only?
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not a philosopher
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: No, because they are elected at the behest of the people, Tor
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t know human nature
[12:40] Soro Dagostino: Not the independents
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: They can still to that G
[12:40] Lilith Ivory: and we DO still have factions
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Factions are elected at due to elections
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: but they are not stron because noone MUST vote for one
[12:40] Pip Torok: ah but they are NOT chartered instittutions under the present system .. unlike the old system
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: PR voting sees to it that parties have lists
[12:41] Pip Torok: they are PRICIPALLED tor … by definition
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: also we have problems to find enough candidates willing to run anyway
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: you are aguing that a few factions be enshrined as charterd by the SC
[12:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: If we need to add an amendment that says we want factions to have lists, then so be it
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: why taking this possibility away from more citizens
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: no Pip
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: If you believe that you have not been to Chicago
[12:41] Soro Dagostino: I have no objections to factions as parties
[12:41] Soro Dagostino: Endorsing candidates.
[12:41] Soro Dagostino: But not dictating who is to run.
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Soro
[12:42] Pip Torok: when a faction has a platform … they are its principles, no?
[12:42] Lilith Ivory nods
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: I disagree
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: If they are not strong now, it is because they have not been doing work.
[12:42] Mikelo Serevi: I dont think factions ever dicated who was to run, we decided it internally
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: If you vote the way of the party, then you wouldn’t care who was sitting on the bench
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Mik, think about what you just said
[12:42] Fern Leissa: Agree w/ Mikelo. Who was willing to serve would also be more how I’d put it
[12:42] Pip Torok: but strength isnt the point Tor, consistency of principle is …
[12:43] Soro Dagostino: How is “internally” not dictating who can run?
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: factions can still do that
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: nothing stops tha
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Because no one is dictating.
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: well, teh person does have to be voted for…
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: this is about controlling who sits on RA
[12:43] Soro Dagostino: The faction is.
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: The party that was elected by the people decides amongst themselves. I see no wrong about that.
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: parties just choose their candidates
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Well G I do
[12:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: I see no reason, then
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: the ppl don’t need an arbiter
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: I recall voting for people, not factions
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: the difference was, I knew what someone stood for
[12:44] Fern Leissa: agree Mikelo.
[12:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: If the people don’t need one, Tor, then why are there courts or this legislature?
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: there are meet the candidates event you can find out now also
[12:44] Pip Torok: with respect, I think people shd stand as individuals but can be endorsed FWIW by the factions
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: and with proportional representation taken out, our democracy has been partly dismantled
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Government is the inclusive body of people that mediates amongst all
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Atleast, this and most democratic governments are.
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: you only need 3 to form a faction, I don’t see this as a big obstacle
[12:45] Pip Torok: PR taken out??? how do you come by that conclusion, Mikelo?
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: i think you needed 10
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: I feel it has, Pip
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: It’s part of the constitutional amendment
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: not sure tho
[12:45] Fern Leissa: He means if we don’t have factions Pip
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: no more borda
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: it was kind of stuck in there
[12:46] Pip Torok: well Mikelo, I’d be interested in how you feel that way …
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: this is the proposal that was enacted
[12:47] Pip Torok: well in one sense we’ll _always_ have factions because we have groups and our TOS protexcts groups …
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: you’ll note the parts about proportional representations have been removed
[12:47] Pip Torok: can you give me indications of the omissions, mikelo?
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: they are in orange
[12:48] Pip Torok: give me the URL and ill look at them
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630
[12:49] Pip Torok: in the meantime I’ll believe till shown otherwise that PR is still very much in force
[12:49] Pip Torok: tu
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t see how.
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: We don’t vote by party any longer, but by preference, no?
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s a rank vote, no?
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[12:51] Pip Torok: yes and rank vote IS PR, do you agree?
[12:51] Soro Dagostino: It seems to me that unless the history is put out simply, we will wander about on this issue for about 3 cycles of the RA.
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: I don’t see how Rank is PR
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: so our old system was swept away
[12:52] Soro Dagostino: By a vote of the people.
[12:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: It’s PReference on the individual, not on the party.
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: no, it was not a referendum
[12:53] Pip Torok: but referendums hadnt become law then mikelo
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: This issue was consideed by the 13th RA, with several commission meetings, and several RA meetings by an RA twice our size. there has been only one election since it was put into effect, and we should respect the work of our citizens to give it time to work
[12:53] Rosie Gray: I agree!
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: The 13th RA had statist agenda
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: make the CDS into AA
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: what do you mean by that?
[12:54] Pip Torok: ????
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: everyone will be happy, or some such
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: the 13d was after the de merger right?
[12:54] Mikelo Serevi: statism is when a small group of people runn everything
[12:54] Pip Torok: Mikelo … can you be more precise in what you say?
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: I wouldn´t call a RA with 13 people a small group lol
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: regular people are not considered smart enough to make choices
[12:55] Soro Dagostino: What?!!
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: the 13th RA was elected partly by AA citizens as well
[12:55] Soro Dagostino: You demean the populace!
[12:55] Pip Torok: which doesnt apply here so “statism” itself doesnt apply here mikelo
[12:55] Mikelo Serevi: no, I’m talking about the statist agenda, Soro
[12:56] Arria Perreault: Hi all ㋡
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: hi arria
[12:56] Rosie Gray: hello Arria
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Arria
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[12:56] Fern Leissa: Hi Arria
[12:56] Pip Torok: hi arria
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: but Pip, this is the direction we were headed
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: strong central control, diverse opinions driven out
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, I need to get going
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: imo that´s exactly what you and Pip want to have now
[12:57] Pip Torok: im interested in the constitution as it now stands … “diections” and trends can be reversed
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: strong central control by a few faction leaders
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: what gives you that impression, Lilith?
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: you want a few faction members to conrtoll CDS
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: I want diverse voices to be heard and given the power they represend in the polulation
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ok mike
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: But this was discouraged for a long time
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: If we vote by faction not individual.
[12:58] Soro Dagostino: voters who “cn’t thnk”?
[12:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, I need to get going, folks…
[12:59] Mikelo Serevi: ok, cu Guil
[12:59] Fern Leissa: Bye Guillaume
[12:59] Pip Torok: speaking without a hny faction hat i want factions to be open talking shops with no thought of control EXCEPT by whom the RA serves i.e.the citizens
[12:59] Rosie Gray: bye Guillaume
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Then I might have to vote for a list of candidates with one or more ppl on it I don’t like
[12:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: See you all next time! ㋡
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: how is that dimeocratic
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: ok g
[12:59] Pip Torok: bye guillaume
[12:59] Soro Dagostino: tc G.
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: They can still do that Pip
[13:00] Pip Torok: how/ .. by force of personality perhaps, tor, but only by seeing the citizens becoming their “sheep”
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: and I missed invitations to public faction meetings this term
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: by hard work
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: factions seems want to do back-room politics only
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: that sounds like projection to me, lilith
[13:01] Soro Dagostino: Point of personal privilege Madame LRA.
[13:01] Pip Torok: agree Lilith … wd that be a bad thing iyo/
[13:01] Fern Leissa: Back room politics will happen.. but they are more prone to “personalities” w/o factions
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: protection against what?
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: We have factions now.
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: we have irrelevant factions
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: if they have receded in importance it is beacuse the leaders have not put the kind of work in that is required.
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: they are a vestige
[13:02] Fern Leissa: Right… they are largely irrelevant
[13:02] Pip Torok: yes Tor, and since factions are groups, factions will exist
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Tor
[13:03] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: if they are only because they have allowed themselves to become irrelevant
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: yes Soro?
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: no, they were muddled
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: they could have meetings
[13:03] Fern Leissa: There is not as much motive to putting energy into factions if they have been largely hobbled
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: but if we vote for individuals, what do factions mean?
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: some prominent faction members have not been in world to do anything but pay tier.
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: yes fren, that’s it exactly
[13:03] Soro Dagostino: I brought this up as a citizens concern. I suggest it be put on the agenda — after discussion in the forum/
[13:04] Fern Leissa: Right. I think that is central Mikelo
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: Fern, sry
[13:04] Pip Torok: they mean that the voters KNOWS in part where the candidate is coming from
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Factions are not hobbled
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: They mean that candidates have to declare their intentions
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: but now, it’s optional
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: the discussion about this law has been on the agenda before Soro
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: they just have to compete faily with out a constitutional charter.
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: fairly
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: but your input with the referendum is quite good
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: an optional is choice and choice is democracy
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: er, that’s fuzzy logic Tor
[13:05] Mikelo Serevi: choice is choice
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: no worse than yours Mikelo
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: any Candidate should write a note with her/his goals
[13:06] Pip Torok: and btw Tor if factions AQRE no longer relevant theyll die anyway, so why the fuss?
[13:06] Fern Leissa: I think we do need more citizen input on factions and their role in our govt. but I’m concerned that a lot of pp don’t read the forum. Any suggestions?
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: that´s how it worked last election
[13:06] Mikelo Serevi: Well, this item had been on the table a while
[13:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip they will not die if they are given a constitutional charter
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: if they die without such favoritism then that is the ppls will
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: Let’s not stall talking about it
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: anybody want´s to chair a commissionn about that issue again?
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: we had a commission last term with Gwyn as chair
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: A delay tactic?
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: and you surely can´t call her a Seed member lol
[13:08] Pip Torok: PLEASE Mikelo …. “delay tactic” …?
[13:08] Fern Leissa: No… I don’t think so Mikelo. I think this is an important issue… but I think we need to hear from other citizens.
[13:08] Mikelo Serevi: A referendum is an interesting idea
[13:08] Fern Leissa: I have only a random sampling of opinions at this point
[13:08] Fern Leissa: I would sure like to hear more..
[13:09] Lilith Ivory: did anybody open a discussion at the forum already?
[13:09] Pip Torok: in effect mikelo a referendum wd tru,p us all …
[13:09] Lilith Ivory: I might have missed that
[13:09] Fern Leissa: I did. Not much response
[13:09] Pip Torok: trump
[13:09] Fern Leissa: not much is an understatement lol
[13:10] Mikelo Serevi: well, we are the ones here to work with legislation
[13:10] Pip Torok: yes theres is a discussion … imo its best carried on there
[13:11] Fern Leissa: What concerns me Mikelo.. is the feed back I have gotten.. from a few which would indicate many pp may be opposed to reinstituting factions
[13:11] Fern Leissa: That’s not what I want… but we are “representatives”
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: well, there are some strong personalities around
[13:11] Mikelo Serevi: but they don’t speak for everyone
[13:12] Pip Torok: i have them also Fern .. in any case referenda were instituted for just such major issues
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: But you’re right, only the people can speak for themselves…
[13:12] Fern Leissa: I have not spoken to any strong personalities.. and those that said this were not particularly combative… they just indicated they didn’t like factions. Sometimes with just a one or two word negative comment
[13:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear I am for the people speaking for themselves.
[13:13] Fern Leissa: So.. this is hardly scientific… or representative admittedly
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: Well, if we put it to a referendum, then it will be hard to argue with the result
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: yea I´d like to hear more citizens about that also
[13:13] Mikelo Serevi: Also, such a thing might spark interest in forum discussion
[13:14] Fern Leissa: I do like the idea of a referendum… even if we didn’t have one when they were removed from the voting process
[13:14] Fern Leissa: Factions tha is
[13:14] Fern Leissa: *that
[13:14] Mikelo Serevi: Any objection to my proposing one then?
[13:14] Fern Leissa: nope
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: how would that work in prcatice if I may ask?
[13:15] Mikelo Serevi: I’m thinking how to word that now
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: it will be added to the ballot
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: oh I see
[13:15] Pip Torok often wonders how it conjugates “I have principles” “you have convictions” “he/she is a strong personality” etc ….
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: lol Pip
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, I propose we put the matter of repealing the amendment to make factions optional to a referendum.
[13:17] Fern Leissa: I second the motion
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: How is that? The amendment doesn’t have a number, so I can only reference what it was called in Jaime’s proposal
[13:17] Pip Torok: what cd be helpful imo is everyone writing in the Forum their -ideal_ of a constitutional setup
[13:18] Fern Leissa: Maybe the factions could have some public mtgs too… explaining what they are all about
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: To be clear, I propose to reverse the text at viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630
[13:18] Pip Torok: .. and how factions wd/wdnt/shd/shdnt firt in
[13:18] Fern Leissa:
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: yes, stir things a bit, and see what’s there
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: seems we can vote on having a a referendum or not
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: even if the proposal is quite confusing hehhe
[13:19] Fern Leissa: Do we have enough pp ?? with Guillaume gone?
[13:19] Lilith Ivory: 4 of 7 seems to be enough
[13:19] Mikelo Serevi: well we need four, and he could 7-day
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: it is referreed to as amendment 23 in the 8th RA
[13:19] Fern Leissa: kk
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: aha, thx Tor
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: do we need a 50% or 60% for having a referendum?
[13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: This will also repeal election of open RA seats
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: should a restate the proposal?
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: imo it´s only 50% right
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: it should be a regular vote
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: I think changing the consitution would require more
[13:21] Pip Torok: WHAT shd be a regular vote, Mikelo
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: I see
[13:21] Lilith Ivory: voting to have a referendum
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps someone has a copy of the old constitution
[13:22] Fern Leissa: Old? Date?
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, I propose we put the matter of repealing the amendment to make factions optional to a referendum. To be clear, I propose to reverse the text at viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630, referred to as Amendment 23
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: Does this seem clearer?
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: It does
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, and the link has a complete reference to the constitution before and after
[13:22] Fern Leissa:
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: think I got a second already
[13:23] Fern Leissa: Want me to second again?
[13:23] Pip Torok: and I suspect this ra is being railroded into repeal a constitutiona; amedment without careful thought
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: ???
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: do you think I’m railroading Pip?
[13:23] Pip Torok: yes
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: are you clear in wanting to repeal by-elections for RA?
[13:23] Lilith Ivory: so you want to have more discussion?
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: Oh, Tor’s point
[13:24] Pip Torok: far more discussion
[13:24] Pip Torok: and in the Forum …
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: ok then
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: but I thought a referendum would spark said discussion
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: sounds like Pip wants to table this
[13:24] Soro Dagostino: Well, well, Pip and I agree!
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: to railroad would mean I just forced it through here
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: do you Pip?
[13:25] Pip Torok: no mik the referendum gives us the verdict not the discussion
[13:25] Pip Torok: yes mikelo it wd
[13:25] Mikelo Serevi: hmm, good point, although we can’t force people to discuss
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: I can´t call a vote as long as there is need for more discussion
[13:25] Pip Torok: but theyll have th choice given theyre registered on the Forum
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: Yes
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: they haven’t been discussing much, maybe because it’s not a hot topic atm
[13:26] Fern Leissa: So Pip…you’re thinking we table till next ra mtg?
[13:26] Mikelo Serevi: but a vote, well, makes it timely
[13:26] Pip Torok: its hot now, Mikelo!! )
[13:26] Lilith Ivory: it´s timely anyway
[13:27] Pip Torok: yes .. in effect
[13:27] Soro Dagostino: Its time for the SC to send Notice of the RA elections.
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: as far as I know campaigning starts at may 7
[13:27] Pip Torok: and use the time to good effect in the Forum
[13:27] Fern Leissa: I’m ok with that. Anything to try and get pp to participate and think about what they want for CDS going forward
[13:28] Pip Torok: well it WD be an issue for candidates … “your position on factions and their place”
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: I want that too
[13:28] Fern Leissa: That’s a good point Pip.
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: not enough time till the elections anyway
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: And a referendum included in the election would make sense
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: if we change that law people need time to found new faction if wanted
[13:29] Pip Torok: true … hadnt thought of that!
[13:30] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:30] Fern Leissa: What would be the deadline for including a referendum in the election voting? Soro?
[13:30] Soro Dagostino: I don’t have a clue.
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: Does that mean there is no deadline?
[13:30] Fern Leissa: huum.. Anybody?
[13:31] Soro Dagostino: Need to read the Constitution
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: um the balots are prepared by Jon Seattle
[13:31] Fern Leissa: There must be
[13:31] Pip Torok: I thimnk Jon might be the better person to ask … via moon or gwyn perhaps
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Normally the Dean coordinates with him
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: imo it´s the bussiness of SC
[13:31] Pip Torok: of course, Delia!!
[13:31] Fern Leissa: Soro’s right… need to check the Constitution
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: don´t you have a meeting soon anyway?
[13:31] Fern Leissa: Or yes… ask Delia lol
[13:32] Soro Dagostino: Planning now.
[13:32] Soro Dagostino: Been some chat between the SC members as to when.
[13:33] Soro Dagostino: Delia has been off line for two months.
[13:33] Soro Dagostino: No internet.
[13:33] Pip Torok: ??
[13:33] Fern Leissa: She was on Wed
[13:33] Soro Dagostino: Back now.
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: I can’t see anything in the constitution about referendums
[13:33] Soro Dagostino: First or second day back.
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: I may be missing it
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: Imo we should table this issue till next meeting and try to find out more inbetween
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think they are binding
[13:34] Pip Torok: agree, Lilith
[13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: This issue was discussed vis a vis the AA merger referendum
[13:35] Soro Dagostino: When I get the transcrip of this meeting I’ll see to it that the members of SC are brought up to speed.
[13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think that was bindng
[13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: really an opinion poll
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: thanks Soro
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: I am going to post the transcript right after the meeting
[13:36] Soro Dagostino:
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I remember that one, Tor
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: Of course, we’re talking about a real one here
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: do I get a motion and a second to table this issue?
[13:38] Pip Torok: i propose tabling this motion
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: second
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: all in favour say aye please
[13:38] Pip Torok: aye
[13:38] Fern Leissa: aye
[13:38] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: ok
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: unfortunately I missed asking Trebpor about a short summary of his land commission
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: … and Arria isn´t there to report about her citizenship commission (
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: The constitution would have to already allow for changes via referencum tho Mikelo
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: do you have anything to report Fern?
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: well, there have been ballot measures before
[13:40] Fern Leissa: Sure..
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: interesting input Tor
[13:40] Fern Leissa: The covenant draft is ready and is posted up on the forum. Please take a look..
[13:41] Fern Leissa: There must be at least a few things that need correcting.
[13:41] Soro Dagostino: Very nice work Fern . . . .
[13:41] Fern Leissa: Otherwise… it’s pretty much ready for a vote
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: cool
[13:41] Fern Leissa: ty
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: yes thank you fern
[13:41] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: you should bring that to RA next time so we can discuss it
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I always hope you are on a faction I can vote for
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: and thank you
[13:41] Fern Leissa: ok. I will do that
[13:41] Pip Torok: yes .. a fine toothcombe from us now, I believe!
[13:42] Fern Leissa: hehe
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: and thanks for all your work on this, Fern
[13:42] Fern Leissa: and thanks to everybody who took the time to come to the community meetings
[13:43] Fern Leissa: They were a little boring perhaps… but very helpful for me in the re-writing
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: not a good time for me, but I have been peeking at the transcripts
[13:43] Fern Leissa:
[13:44] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:44] Lilith Ivory: anything else?
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: I have something
[13:45] Soro Dagostino: Not from me, RL calls.
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: thank you for being here Soro
[13:45] Fern Leissa: Bye Soro
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: bye
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Soro
[13:45] Soro Dagostino: Bye all.
[13:45] Mikelo Serevi: cu Soro
[13:45] Rosie Gray: bye Soro
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: any RA member concerns?
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I have something after RA concerns.
[13:46] Pip Torok: possibly one mme chair
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: ok Tor
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: yes Pip?
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok I would like to direct all of you to Sudane’s post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3456
[13:47] Pip Torok: i am having trouble with LL billing department and cd impact on my future in CDS .. will liaise with Sudane and hopefully all will be fine
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: The work of Treasurer is in need of some automation.
[13:47] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Pip
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: In order to keep even better records and minimize administrative time, we would like to implement a Hippo system in CDS.
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: To that end, Sudane has implemented the Hippo system in LA only as an experiment
[13:49] Fern Leissa: not some many residents lol
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: expansion of the system to other regions of course will depend on the success of this experiment.
[13:49] Fern Leissa: more seriously…kk
[13:49] Pip Torok: Tor … if we havent yet paid the tier for this month … do we pay by hippo or by the old method?
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: in the short term you will have to pay any tier box on your parcels in LA
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip for LA parcels only, pay the tier box on the parcel
[13:50] Pip Torok: tku
[13:50] Fern Leissa: Nice work on moving this along Tor
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: the total tier you owe on the old boxes has been adjusted to refect the change in collection method
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: much thanks goes to anna, who did all the work of collecting necessay LMs and parcel pics.
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: As mentioned earlier
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: the hippo system does provide not only a more automated administration, but also more information about our finaces.
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: one great benefit will be that we can pay several months in advance.
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: today I paied two months fo tier for my parcels in LA.
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: paid
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry for the typos
[13:53] Fern Leissa: Will we still get reminders about payment due Tor?
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: yes you will, Fern
[13:53] Fern Leissa: ty
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane plans to add me and the PIO as managers of the system
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: as you can see, this will help Sudane a great deal.
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: on thing of note
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: if tier is due but not paid, the sign on the parcels will show the parcel as reserved
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: click on the sign to find the tier payment needed
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: then rt click on the sign to make a payment
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: the sign will change to a tier box to indicate that tier is paid.
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: I noticed it gives an amount to pay, but the pay amount defaults you my last paid figure, which is wrong
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: repeat the payment if you want to add an extra month.
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: the amount in chat seems correct
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: the amount in chat is correct
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I noticed that too mikelo
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I have one parcel a bit bigger than the other
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: the system remembered the amount I paid on the bigger parcel I think
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: well it is new
[13:58] Fern Leissa: ooooh
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: and we want to work out bugs
[13:58] Fern Leissa: a few bugs to work out.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: so any feedback would be helpful
[13:58] Fern Leissa: LA beta
[13:58] Mikelo Serevi: lol, yes
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: well fern you brought up one reason LA is a good place to hold the experiement
[13:59] Fern Leissa: huum. Sad but true
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: we may have vendors around too, so you will conceivably be able to pay your tier in one location at the vendors
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: one was put in the temple on the quay
[14:00] Fern Leissa: Oh. I saw that yeah
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: also just a note
[14:00] Fern Leissa: Big do not touch sign when I was there
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has made some tip jars
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Fern well we have to work some things out
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: the tip jars will be for events
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt: we are often embarassed a bit to not have tip jars for the venue when we have events
[14:01] Rosie Gray: I saw one on the platz today
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: so now we will be able to point people to a tip jar when they are asked to tip the venue.
[14:02] Tor Karlsvalt: we may be able to recoup some of our cost.
[14:03] Lilith Ivory thinks about having a tip jar besides her chair also
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: also our last event Damian Carbenell was well attened.
[14:03] Fern Leissa: hehe
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:03] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:03] Tor Karlsvalt: http://cdstheblog.blogspot.com/
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: plans for Floralia have been pertty finalized. anna should have something out soon.
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: it will be the last weekend of May
[14:04] Tor Karlsvalt: finally, in the sprit of being a good neighbor I understand AA is holding Feria next weekend
[14:04] Fern Leissa:
[14:05] Pip Torok: excuse me, folks .. RL calls
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: ok pip
[14:05] Fern Leissa: Bye Pip
[14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: bye
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: cu Pip
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: see you Pip
[14:05] Pip Torok: bye fern, Tor
[14:05] Pip Torok: Lilith
[14:05] Lilith Ivory: omg now we don´t have a quorum to adjorn
[14:05] Pip Torok: Rosie …
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: Im sure we’ll manage
[14:05] Rosie Gray: you’ll just have to sit there and debate then!
[14:05] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:05] Rosie Gray smiles
[14:06] Pip Torok: ok ill hang around till then!
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: well I think I am done
[14:06] Fern Leissa: Talk faster Tor lol
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: unless there are questions.
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:06] Pip Torok: nope …..
[14:06] Mikelo Serevi: Just a note, it might be a good idea to send a notice about these things
[14:06] Lilith Ivory: I am goin to place a feria poster with schedule in my shop on the forum
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: in case anybody is interested
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: there is a posting in the forum, but a goup notice is a good idea, Mikelo
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I will
[14:07] Fern Leissa: Ok… if we’re taling about feria… There’s a BIG book over in the library
[14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I plan to wave the CDS flag so to speak.
[14:08] Pip Torok: nice touch, Tor!
[14:08] Rosie Gray: good idea Tor
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: well should we adjourn now so I can post the transcript?
[14:09] Mikelo Serevi: second
[14:09] Fern Leissa:
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: all in favour say aye please
[14:09] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:09] Pip Torok: aye
[14:09] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: afk while posting
[14:09] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: see you guys
[14:09] Rosie Gray: thanks for everything you do, people!
[14:09] Fern Leissa: Bye Lilith
[14:09] Lilith Ivory bows
[14:09] Lilith Ivory: lol
[14:09] Pip Torok: and so … au revoir, folks!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 2 May 2010

RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 1
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:29 pm
9:02] Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting on the CDS forums
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: hello all
[9:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Silvia
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll send a couple more IMS and then i suggest we begin
[9:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi sylvia
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: is this an open meeting?
[9:02] Kaseido Quandry: hi Sylvia
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: i’m not a citizen yet
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: open meeting, all welcome
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: hey Tor!
[9:04] Lilith Ivory: hi Tor
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: Hi Sonja
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Lilith
[9:04] Sylvia Tinkel: Ji tor
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all!
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: G’ Day Tor
[9:04] Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
[09:02] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting on the CDS forums
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: same Ranma
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: shall we begin then?
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: sure
[9:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Arias is coming
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll give a quick recap of why we are here
[9:06] Mikelo Serevi: people will probably filter in
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: and then we can all dive in
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: yes, ppl will probably arrive during as well
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: these ‘town hall ‘ meetings were set up to be held in between the regular RA meetings
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: the idea was that we could hold these in a more informal style
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: and get more citizen input than is possible in the structured, formal RA meetings
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: so far, they’ve been pretty successful
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: we held one meeting previously to discuss the merger between AA and the CDS
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: let me find the link
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2801
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: is the first page of the transcript
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: This is the second of the meetings to discuss the merger
[9:08] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
[9:08] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know that Patty
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Hail King Stui
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: as many of you will know, the merger has been in place for almost a year now
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening Lil
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening Kas
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Good Evening Tor
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening ALL
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: and, at the one year point in July, either the AA Estate Owner or the CDS Represnativative Assembly can choose to dissolve the merger
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[9:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[9:09] Arias Ahren: Hi Arria
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: so this meeting is being held to discuss our views on the merger, whehther it should continue and so on
[9:09] Sylvia Tinkel: Hi Arria
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: that will help to inform the choices to be made
[9:09] Arria Perreault: nice crown, Stui
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: i should say that it will be the next RA which makes the decision
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou AP It was a gift from an admiring fan
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: elections are this month, and the ppl elected as reps will have a chance to vote on it
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll sit next to Patty
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: Hi Rose
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: so, now we have a few more here
[9:10] Rose Springvale: hello, rezzing
[9:10] Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: let me remind everyone to click the box in the centre
[9:11] Sylvia Tinkel: Hi rose
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: to indicate consent to be recorder
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: recorded
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting later
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: and, with that, let’s begin
[9:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wondered what that was on your back Patty I thought it was a table tennis bat
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s called an uchiwa
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: don’t be shy folks
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t sit next to Patty it won’t let me
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: this is your opportunity to say what you think about the merger between AA and CDS. go ahead!
[9:13] Danton Sideways: neat people can sit under the trees?
[9:13] Danton Sideways: q
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: aww, not my fault stui. i could not sit on that bit either. it’s nothing personal
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at STH we talked Merger
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: well at first I wanted the union to continue, however the merger has not really happened
[9:14] Pip Torok: can i suggest that Rose talks first?
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was Wednesday
[9:14] Rose Springvale: not here to talk
[9:14] Pip Torok: ah
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Rose?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: yes?
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Please
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s open meeting and so everyone can speak if they want to
[9:14] Arias Ahren: don’t keep silent
[9:14] Arria Perreault: yes, please
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i’m here to listen folks
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: the atmosphere in the forums has become so toxic
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s a matter of choice and opinion
[9:15] Arria Perreault: there are still so many open questions
[9:15] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t support the merger any more myself, partly because it seems to have annoyed so many people
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: while i would love to hear what rose has to say too, it’s not really up to us to pressure her
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: at STH’s and talking to people we have mixed opinions
[9:15] Jayme Mistwalker: as a CDS citizen I think the merger would benefit us, but I feel like there’s hostility
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[9:16] Ranma Tardis: Pat I am sure as a leader she wants to hear other peoples views and not unduly influence or pressure them
[9:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and there is a lot of that is broken down to a basic lack of trust and knowledge on one side or the other
[9:16] Pip Torok: Could I suggest that an AA resident (with nothing in CDS) speak?
[9:16] Danton Sideways: STH = Stui’s Talking Hour
[9:16] Arria Perreault: for me, I think any merger is a good idea, but we really have to know all the consequences
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: do we have any here?
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t believe AA is atempting to change the democratic nature of CDS. The merger is good.
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: Schmilson! hey!
[9:17] Arias Ahren: Ever since humans first chisled something into stone there was someone upstream shisiling that the folks downstream were full of it
[9:17] Schmilsson Nilsson: Hello! Waiting for everything to rez before sitting.
[9:17] Mikelo Serevi: What exactly are the benefits of the merger, besides expansion?
[9:17] Pip Torok: lol Arias …
[9:17] Ranma Tardis: the cds is an electorial democracy as Rudy would say
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Too much has been said in the forums about AA not being democratic or suggesting that CDS will not be dem. after a merger.
[9:17] Jayme Mistwalker: is that true?
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think there is a basic belief in AA that the RA is somewhat indifferent to the concerns of AA
[9:18] Pip Torok: i’d say that the merger is culturally enriching on both sides
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or not necessarily sympathetic to the wider cultural mission of the sims
[9:18] Rose Springvale: stui?
[9:18] Rose Springvale: are you speaking for yourself or all of AA?
[9:18] Arria Perreault: I think, if we continue the merger, we have to review the AA master plan and price policy, with a review of the CDS price policy (average prim price). If we can’t act in one AA sim (in respect of the theme), it’s not a real merger
[9:18] Ranma Tardis: an electorial democracy is not a true one, it has all of the apperance of one but does not function
[9:18] Kaseido Quandry: I think Pip’s expressed the hope -and the reality, outside the political class
[9:18] Mikelo Serevi: we can exchange culture without merging
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: did AA understand what the CDS democracy was like before joining?
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the two can coexist
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: it isn’t a problem for CN and NFS to be together in the same estate
[9:19] Rose Springvale: i thought this was to be a conversation about what CDS citizens wanted. if its all speculation about AA then i’ll go
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: some things do not mix well a peach and mushroom taste nice but not toughter
[9:19] Mikelo Serevi: well ranma, I think past a certain size, a direct democracy just won’t work
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: very different sims and covenants
[9:19] Patroklus Murakami: well, the AA citizens could tell us
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: our community is very small
[9:19] Arria Perreault: Rose, we have opinions, but also questions
[9:19] Rose Springvale: you have here only one citizen of solely AA
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: I think what AA wants is important
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: we could aske questions and get them answered
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I have asked a question above. this is a key question for me
[9:20] Rose Springvale: sigh
[9:20] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:20] Pip Torok: Then what i as a half-CDS man wants are 2 EO’s totally happy with whAT we eventually decide
[9:20] Rose Springvale: what do you want to know?
[9:20] Arria Perreault: it will influe my opinion on the merger
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: how about joint citizens? do they not know their neighbours’ views?
[9:20] Rose Springvale: money?
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I think, if we continue the merger, we have to review the AA master plan and price policy, with a review of the CDS price policy (average prim price). If we can’t act in one AA sim (in respect of the theme), it’s not a real merger
[9:20] Sylvia Tinkel: Isn’t the fact that only one citizen of AA is here kind of relevant?
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: I want to know if the AA citizens want the merger
[9:20] Rose Springvale: did you read my forum post yesterday regarding reserves?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: “clarifying misconceptions”
[9:21] Kaseido Quandry: I see at least half a dozen AA citizens here, Sylvia
[9:21] Ranma Tardis: yes it is all about the money, sighs the CDS has the highest tier rate in sl
[9:21] Sylvia Tinkel: oh, I thought Rose said only one was here
[9:21] Sylvia Tinkel: nm
[9:21] Arria Perreault: my question is: can we review Sacromonte next term?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: only one AA ONLY
[9:21] Kaseido Quandry: no, only one who isn’t a citizen of AA *only*
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: money is one issue, there are others
[9:21] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement provided that no tier or land changes would occur during the first year, so long as LL didn’t change anything.
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Tier might be the undemocratic aspect of CDS.
[9:22] Rose Springvale: My understanding is the Sacromonte is rented
[9:22] Ranma Tardis: I have nothing to do with the CDS by choice
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: It is too high.
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: What is undemocratic about tier, tor?
[9:22] Ranma Tardis: I am a member of a land owning group in AA
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: It keeps many new people out of CDS
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: tor, tier rates can be changed
[9:22] Arria Perreault: it was not when we have tried to work on this project
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: keeps the community static.
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: not having any land to sell keeps ppl out of CDS!
[9:23] Rose Springvale: on sacromonte. but you wanted to divide it up and charge different tier.
[9:23] Pip Torok agrees with Pat
[9:23] Tor Karlsvalt: there is land
[9:23] Arria Perreault: yes, exactly
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tier is a fundamental issue
[9:23] Kaseido Quandry: Tor’s absolutely right – th model makes it clear new blood isn’t wanted
[9:23] Sylvia Tinkel: it can be a good thing or a bad thing but high tier can’t really be “undemocratic”
[9:23] Ranma Tardis: Pat, the CDS has a obsence amount of reserve
[9:23] Mikelo Serevi: I thought we were talking about the merger
[9:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes sylvia it can and is
[9:23] Arria Perreault: if the RA decide that, can we implemente this decision or not?
[9:23] Kaseido Quandry: of course it can- high rates shut out broad participation
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa whoa
[9:23] Rose Springvale: after the merger is final, of course. but you’ll have to evict the tenant
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: two moments
[9:23] Sonja Strom: There are some parcels available right now that have very low tier.
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: back to the merger folks
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: Pat the RA can do anything they please, no checks on its power
[9:24] Sylvia Tinkel: it’s the wrong term to use
[9:24] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: we are not discussing the high tier rates just now
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s becoming a bit of a free for all and it’s difficult to ascertain the direction of the conversation
[9:24] Rose Springvale: i’ll oppose it, because its not a good way to serve people. but it will be the RA decision
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: save it for another time
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: true, in NFS
[9:24] Arria Perreault: (we can wait a vacancy, of course)
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: that is my objection to the CDS
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: if citizenship is tied to parcel ownership, and parcels are phenomenally expensive, what *would* you call it?
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rose is right tho
[9:24] Jayme Mistwalker: good point, kas
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people in AA don’t want large land masses split into small plots
[9:25] Rose Springvale: stui
[9:25] Rose Springvale: again, are you speaking for yourself of for AA?
[9:25] Rose Springvale: i’ve not heard that sentiment
[9:25] Arria Perreault: we can make affordable plots and first review our price polic, Kas
[9:25] Pip Torok: well ARE they expensive if its needed to pay the sim and keep an adequare reserve?
[9:25] Sylvia Tinkel: I would call that a group of very rich peopel practicing democracy
[9:25] Ranma Tardis: why not buy more sims?
[9:25] Arria Perreault: it was one of the idea concerning Saaacromonte
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have related to the nature reserve
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, look at market rates across SL
[9:25] Rose Springvale: Arria
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: we seem to be dancing around every topic but the merger at the moment
[9:26] Rose Springvale: there is land right now in a full prim sim that merely needs the cooperation of the Exec office to set for sale
[9:26] Ranma Tardis: one can be gotten cheap, people are giving them back to LL
[9:26] Rose Springvale: so why deal with sacromonte?
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: I pay 2600/mo, I wouldn’t say that’s expensive
[9:26] Arria Perreault: Sacromonte makes only one person as citizen and not for a cheap price
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: “pay extra so we can maintain a slush fund” isn’t exactly a big marketing draw
[9:26] Pip Torok: yes Kas but look at what we offer as opposed to what they offer … its a buyers mkt …
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: can i suggest some questions to structure our discussion?
[9:26] Arria Perreault: there are 3 very cheap parcels in NFS now
[9:26] Pip Torok: please yes Pat
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: what did people hope to get out of the merger?
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami: has the past year met your expectations?
[9:27] Ranma Tardis: due to the differences of the groups, I think the merger should be canceled
[9:27] Arria Perreault: I have tried to give one of them to a friend of Stui who wanted a cheap parcel
[9:27] Pip Torok: The pride of being a citizen of both without qualification
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami notes this is like herding cats
[9:27] Sonja Strom: It seems to me like the merger has been very stressful, to my disappointment.
[9:27] Ranma Tardis: the RA will get more and more involved in the AA dictating they wants and desires
[9:27] Mikelo Serevi: politically, CDA and AA are like oil and water, imo
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I mentioned tier only to point out that both CDS and AA have areas where democracy can be broadened.
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: We share a lot of people and were friendly before
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped to get a revitalised community out of it. joint projects, cross-fertilisation of ideas
[9:28] Rose Springvale: ranma, are you speaking for CDS or AA now?
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS should not fear AA
[9:28] Ranma Tardis: AA of course
[9:28] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo’s right – if we define “CDS” as “this term’s RA”
[9:28] Pip Torok: it wd be good to have a 100% AA resident to confirm that or not, Mikelo
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: i think there is too much of that sentiment.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: hi jamie
[9:29] Ranma Tardis: the FIC of the CDS makes money from it
[9:29] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
[9:29] Pip Torok: hi Jamie
[9:29] Kaseido Quandry: the more time I spend just with people in CDS, the more I realize “l’etat c’est moi” isn’t nearly as true as some woud like
[9:29] Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Jamie
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped that AA citizens would learn about and participate actively in the CDS representative democracy
[9:30] Pip Torok wonders just who those “some” are! …
[9:30] Lilith Ivory: Hi Keila
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped that the current factions would expand, new ones would form and we would do some work together on issues of religious and political tolerance
[9:30] Rose Springvale: it would be helpful to me if people would talk about facts instead of theories and presumptions
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I think there are AA citizens on RA
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: and I noticed that sevral are running for AA
[9:30] Jamie Palisades waves laggily & smiles. we ha e an FIC? damn, Gwyn & Sudane must have sent all the dough to Goldman Sachs while I wasn’t looking
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: RA*
[9:30] Rose Springvale: and i don’t speek french
[9:30] Ranma Tardis: yes the CDS has a inner circle
[9:30] Rose Springvale: no
[9:30] Arria Perreault: it was a saying of Louis the 14th: I am the state
[9:31] Arria Perreault: King of France
[9:31] Rose Springvale: CDS has people who have a lot of writing on the forum
[9:31] Sylvia Tinkel whispers: every communicty has an
[9:31] Pip Torok: well Rose, I feel that more objection to the merger comes from yourself than from AA citizens … but if I am wroplease tell me
[9:31] Ranma Tardis: Neualtenberg as I knew it has been destroyed
[9:31] Rose Springvale: but i dont’ believe there is an inner circle
[9:31] Sylvia Tinkel: inner circle” in the same senxe as the CDS has one
[9:31] Mikelo Serevi: Right, and it’s an odd thing to say, since CDS is really about democracy
[9:31] Tor Karlsvalt: So I think AA citizens are beginning to take part in CDS institutions
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: what did ppl hope to get out of the merger?
[9:31] Pip Torok: *wrong please tell me
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Pip, i merely am asking cds to stand by its agreement
[9:32] Sylvia Tinkel: Neualtenburg was destroyed by Ulrika Ranma
[9:32] Ranma Tardis: first the CDS will raise tier and pay themselves
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip there is opposition to the Merger
[9:32] Ranma Tardis: no it was destroyed by the coup
[9:32] Pip Torok: ye Stui BUT WHERE FROM?
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can confirm it but not who… it’s for those people to state their opposition
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: /
[9:32] Sylvia Tinkel: never heard of any coup
[9:32] Rose Springvale: sylvia and ranma, i really love you both, but i don’t think as non citizens you are helping our discussions right now
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not for me to give them over to a badgering by witnesses of the meeting
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. seems like so much uncertainty has been raised about whether the merger will continue or not that the CDS RA is reluctant to waste time for no outcome
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: See, I’m hearing accusations of elitism and corruption, but where to people get these ideas?
[9:33] Rose Springvale: agree mikelo
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: well, who opposed it the first time?
[9:33] Ranma Tardis: the cds is a dictatorship in the guise of a democracy, there was no way to vote them
[9:33] [color=Black]Patroklus Murakami: i agree with rose on this i’m afraid. a trip down memory lane is not helpful
[9:33] Pip Torok agrees with Mikelo
[9:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would say Mikelo they’d get it from watching certain RA meetings at times
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I have understood that the opposition is mainly seen in in-action rather than overt action,
[9:33] Sylvia Tinkel: I must object to Ranma just sputing hateful things without any kind of support and that are not relevant to the discussion
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: No NP set up, no effort to help run AA etc
[9:33] Ranma Tardis: I opposed it at first because the 2 groups are so different
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: It’s easy to shoot arrows, and planty have been shot
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: Is it too much to ask people to fight fair?
[9:34] Pip Torok: but Ranma youre a citizen of neither atm!
[9:34] Danton Sideways: NP= non profit
[9:34] Ranma Tardis: Sylvia you were not a citizen during that time
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: I was in another avatar
[9:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are at times as a representative assembly very good at representing the divisions over the solidarity
[9:34] Ranma Tardis: actually I am a member of a land owning group in AA
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Can we ever just learn to let water run off our backs
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: my point is to just shout nasty things about past history is to derail the debate
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Ranma, neither were you
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: whether true or not
[9:34] Arria Perreault: I was very in favour of this merger at the beginning of the term. I told it publicly as LRA in my inaugural address. Then we got agressive reactions for the 2-3 first meetings. And what we have tried to do in AA was blocked. Then I have started to have doubts. Did we really merge? The only signs we have on the merger are the financial reports. Sorry to say that, but it is the reality.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: surprised to hear that ranma
[9:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Do we ALWAYS have to address little jibs.
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: I think aggressive reactions are a mild way to put it
[9:35] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:35] Rose Springvale: can we please speak in specifics?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: especially the second meeting
[9:35] Rose Springvale: generalizations do not help clarify anything.
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: bulling is more the term I’d use
[9:35] Ranma Tardis: why I am a citizen of Caledon
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: what was blocked, Arria?
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: bullying
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: I agree Rose
[9:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is my hope that the next RA can work together more
[9:35] Danton Sideways: the merged RA has worked ok for a year now
[9:36] Pip Torok: I believe the real “battle” is between the angry vs the non-angry .. not CDS versus AA
[9:36] Rose Springvale: i thnk so too pip.
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: I’m here to work out positive soutions, not squabble, but it’s becoming difficult
[9:36] Arria Perreault: we have tried to start a project in Sacromonte at a time where it was empty. We have presented that as a project for both community to work together. I have personnally been very disapointed with the reaction we got.
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: So, merger, yes or no?
[9:36] Ranma Tardis: what you did not know Sylvia, I was told to shut up and I had promised myself not to be the “angry chick” pardon me
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am walking the thin line between one path and the other
[9:37] Sylvia Tinkel: I agree with Rose that we should stay with substantive things
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: it’s felt to me over the past year like sometimes we are merged and sometimes we aren’t
[9:37] Rose Springvale: Arria, i have explained that what RA wanted to do in Sacromonte was premature and that there is another sim for you to work on. Why do you find that disappointing?
[9:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree, and responces to jibs can be taken IM
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: over sacromonte, we were not mergerd
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: warned off
[9:37] Mikelo Serevi: The merger seems to have created a lot of friction
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: concrete’s good. Arria, what was blocked? Pat, the “some of RA” that you say think they don’t want to put time into AA ? specifics on that? you refer to yourself?
[9:37] Arria Perreault: I am sure today that if we were able to do this project together, the mood regarding the merger would be very diferent
[9:38] Rose Springvale: then move it to almunecar.. .which is what i’ve said since the original conversation
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Almunecar is not rented
[9:38] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I put this on the agenda for the next meeting
[9:38] Arria Perreault: next sunday
[9:38] Rose Springvale: and start it after the merger is final but in the meantime, work on setting Albaycin forward
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Delia has worked on this and carried the tier for a year now
[9:38] Pip Torok: one thing I know is that it takes only 1-2 angries to make it appear there is no hope for a merger
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, rose. why did u not sort out the CDS side of the merger when you were in power?
[9:38] Rose Springvale: and it is tstill not set for sale
[9:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Yeah AP I think the problem with Sacromonte was just that the rental was probably being planned at the same time the RA was making plans.
[9:39] Arria Perreault: ok, Rose
[9:39] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:39] Rose Springvale: pat
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: you are now blaming the current RA and chancellor for inaction
[9:39] Arria Perreault: we can start now with the conception of the project by steeing a workgroup
[9:39] Ranma Tardis: am not angry with the CDS just disapointed
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: particularly on the Non-Profit
[9:39] Rose Springvale: jamie and i did our job pat.
[9:39] Rose Springvale: the non profit is set up.
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: why did u not do it when you had the chance?
[9:39] Rose Springvale: read my post on clarifying misconcetions
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: which non-profit?
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it could be said that a lot of the issues with the merger are arrived at because people don’t speak out
[9:40] Ranma Tardis: but the CDS makes a profit
[9:40] Rose Springvale: this RA has taken the position that there is no need for a non profit because CDS doesn’t want to go there, despite its agreement
[9:40] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to see the agreement, i have it on a notecard
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: :/ pat that might take better than an iPhone connection to answer well – but we DID. that things fell apart afterwards is a good Q for current RA & govt
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: the RA has taken no position on that qn rose
[9:40] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t whink we’ve decided against a non profit, rose
[9:40] Rose Springvale: nor any steps to complet our work
[9:40] Pip Torok: Ranma … saying any sim “makes a profit” is misleading …
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: did you tell anyone what needs to be done?
[9:40] Ranma Tardis: AA is non profit, the CDS is all about profit
[9:41] Arria Perreault: Albaycin too. I will contact Delia about that
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, profit does imply people are collecting, and we certainly aren’t
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there was the discussion about raising the profitability of the AA sims
[9:41] Rose Springvale: pat, at some point, it is the RA job to do its job
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but how can you raise profit on a non profit ?
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly the problem was the transition at the beinnig of the term– lack of willing communication
[9:41] Pip Torok: no Ranma … CDS is abou surviving financially
[9:41] Ranma Tardis: why do we have to make more money than tier?
[9:41] Arria Perreault: it’s very important that we can influe the land management in AA
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AA has been criticised for the costs it incurs at RA
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: hmm difficult to do what ppl expect you to do if they don’t tell you what they expect
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I have seen two sets of figures
[9:41] Rose Springvale: folks, lets focus
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we will respect the theme and until now CDS has made a good job in all sims
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which ones are the correct ones ?
[9:42] Rose Springvale: money is the least of our issues
[9:42] Pip Torok: you did nt hear me Ranma … CDS is about surviving financially
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS holds too much money.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: e.g. on the AA voids – isn’t the right question what a TENANT CITIZEN wants to to do with it? all AA land managements has BEEN subject to CDS jurisdiction for a year now
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: far more than necessary
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: they take in too much money
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: they pay themselves
[9:42] Rose Springvale: then you need to work on budgets. but that is NOT the issue here
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it seems to me that anyone who read the Transcripts of the RA meetings related to budget… would be lead to believe that AA was in financial difficulty
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: This is something that can be changed, ranma
[9:42] Pip Torok: oh dear …. Ranma!
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I have heard to the contrary also
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: it is the issue Rose
[9:42] Sonja Strom: In what sense has AA land management been subject to CDS jurisdiction?
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: I think the idea was to use it to expand, if I remember correctly
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the truth is that there needs to be some clarity on that matter
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: we won’t know how healthy AAs finances are until a year is up
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and some qualification and testing of the figures
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: sudane has been quite clear about that
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: what ches on rose’s leg over what CDS has or hS not done w it’s power over CDS?
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: otherwise that issue can’t be put to bed
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: some of the projections give some cause for concern
[9:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the agreement states that it is Sonja.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Jamie, can you give a couple of specific examples?
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: but nohting we can’t handle together
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: sure- of what?
[9:43] Ranma Tardis: there is no oversight on Sundane
[9:43] Danton Sideways: holy cow the chat is going too fast to follow
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but the conversations about budget and the procrastination over the formulation of the budget
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the pointy finger that occurred at one RA meeting
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: try in on an iPhone Danton
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: as a real civil servant everything I do is subject to aduit
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that made people think that AA wasn’t pulling it’s weight
[9:44] Rose Springvale: wait a minute
[9:44] Sonja Strom: Of AA land management having been subject to CDS jusisdiction for over a year now.
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well that’s bound to rather upset the apple cart on any merger
[9:44] Rose Springvale: 1) this is not a time to pick on sudane
[9:44] Rose Springvale: we are here to talk about CDS and AA i thought
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: as a political she is not inmune
[9:44] Rose Springvale: lets stay on topic please?
[9:44] Mikelo Serevi: the merger, yes
[9:45] Ranma Tardis: the question is do we want European socialism
[9:45] Rose Springvale: CDS has had estate managers and been given all the power i have to give since the merger began
[9:45] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA’s managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[9:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes to european socialism! it’s fab
[9:45] Rose Springvale: cds gets reports of every land transaction and has the power to make them
[9:45] Sylvia Tinkel: sighs at “european socialism”
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: ok, answering Sonja; I told rose (as AA EO) what to do with rent etc. until theend of my term… and now you could have. assuming you two are communicating
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Rose, CDS estate managers have had power on AA land?
[9:45] Pip Torok: my feelings are that when CDS have and like RA meetings and that AA have and like “Town Hall” then we’re BOTH happy
[9:46] Rose Springvale: CDS has estate managers that do, yes
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: hmmmm
[9:46] Sonja Strom: who?
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja, i posted that part of the merer agreement in chat
[9:46] Rose Springvale: jamie, sudane, moon, i, satir,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:46] Rose Springvale: i think more, but i’d have to go look
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: I agree with pip there, there are more happy people than trouble- stirrers
[9:46] Mikelo Serevi: I just feel like the merger has caused more trouble than it’s worth
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Thanks for answering my question.
[9:46] Pip Torok: AH!! someone who agrees !! ))
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: but (meaningful look) the trouble stirrers are louder
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: sighs, because someone does not agree with the FIC does not make them a “troublemaker”
[9:47] Pip Torok: (arent they always!:)
[9:47] Rose Springvale: are there other specific questins?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: wasntvthinking of you
[9:47] Pip Torok: depends on def of “does not agree”
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: what you are saying sounds to me like “shut up”
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: I have one rose
[9:47] Keila Forager: Too much trouble , so just give up…that’s very adult..
[9:48] Rose Springvale: yes Jamie?
[9:48] Jayme Mistwalker: ranma, are you here to discuss the merger?
[9:48] Jayme Mistwalker: or bash CDS?
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: Well, no one has mentioned who the throublemakers are
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: it’s funny how ppl’s tune has changed. we were told a few weeks ago that AA was up in arms, revolting even, at the thought of the merger
[9:48] Sylvia Tinkel: If the only benefits to the merger are social and cultural and we can have those ust by living side by side but differently, why merge at all?
[9:48] Ranma Tardis: how can a for profit and non profit merge?
[9:48] Arria Perreault: Ramna, can I explave you something? In european social-democrat states, the state finance many things like culture. In USA, the main cultural expenses are on private hands. I have found strange that it is the reverse in CDS and AA. In CDS we used to have few events paid by CDS and we have events paid by citizen. In AA, the events of the 11th terms were paid by the CDS
[9:48] Rose Springvale: who told you that Pat?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: rose, as AA EO, how
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: now, when ppl speak out against it, all is sweetness and light!
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: you did rose!
[9:48] Sylvia Tinkel: hi Delia
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, it was my understanding that AA had concerns about the merger, fears of a takeover
[9:49] Delia Lake: hi everyone. still rezzing
[9:49] Lilith Ivory: Hi Delia
[9:49] Rose Springvale: we are here to discuss CDS i thought
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia
[9:49] Ranma Tardis: why is everything about money, in Caledon we get toughter just for the fun of it
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: we have had months of ‘AA citizens are not happy, you must make concessions to them’
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: abolish factions
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: talk nicer
[9:49] Arria Perreault: so Ramna, the cultural policy of AA is closer to what you want to avoid and the CDS sims closer
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: pay for events
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: Rose, as AA EO .. how much direction have you received from CDS govt since last election?
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was hardly that black and white
[9:49] Rose Springvale: none
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: but now, when some say that they have no more confidence in it, volte face
[9:50] Pip Torok: Ranma … tier and events dont pay for themselves! ..
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: pretty hard to defy them, then, eh?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: as AA EO, no one has contacted me at all
[9:50] Ranma Tardis: I am a citizen of AA by choice, to learn about other cultures
[9:50] Rose Springvale: that’s what i though
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: or even work with them?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: yep
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: what i’m hearing is that you dont like the result of the last election. seems to me that’s the real underlying issue
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: ppl are sore they lost last time
[9:50] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:50] Rose Springvale: pat
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what was represented to the RA was that issues are not quite so simple as what could be assumed from face value facts
[9:50] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, could be, pat
[9:51] Rose Springvale: i am only one person
[9:51] Rose Springvale: i am a CDS citizen
[9:51] Keila Forager: OMG Pat, that is so childish..
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that it refers a lot to the core mission of AA
[9:51] Pip Torok: if thats right, then those losers arent into democracy win or lose!
[9:51] Ranma Tardis: yes, I spent a year in Iraq getting shout at on a daily event, I meet a lot of nice people there though
[9:51] Sonja Strom: I have been in contact with Rose many, many times over this term.
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I’ve sensed what pat is saying myself
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask a question ?
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: everyone is so fond of answering
[9:51] Rose Springvale: and here to do what i can to answer your questions. if this is going to be a fistfight, i’d much rather go for a walk
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would like to ask one
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Rather than play fair, people are playing games, causing trouble
[9:51] Rose Springvale: not true sonja
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask a question Patty ?
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Some of our RA meetings have beenn amlost impossible to run
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: *** Excuse me? NONE, Rose? CDS govt hS not contacted you on AA matters AT ALL for 4 months?
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: are we having a fistfight?
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: no one stopping u stui
[9:52] Sylvia Tinkel: this is way too unstructured for me, I don’t think we are getting anywhere
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
[9:52] Sonja Strom: Rose, shall I forward our email exhanges to everyone here?
[9:52] Pip Torok: whats your question, Stui?
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: it takes fighters to fight
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: I think people have tried to contact rose, but she has not responded
[9:52] Rose Springvale: sonja, you will find two emails
[9:52] Sonja Strom: Many more than that,
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in one, you replied to my query about renting sacromonte
[9:52] Sonja Strom: and many IMs,
[9:52] Sylvia Tinkel:
[9:52] Ranma Tardis: I am a warrior but one that does not relish the fight
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my question is: What is the general understanding of the mission of AA ?
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: For example, I know sonja has asked for figures
[9:52] Sonja Strom: and many exchanges in the CDS forum.
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in the other you told me” i didn’t thingk you wanted a response.”
[9:53] Sonja Strom: And many in meetings, like this one.
[9:53] Mikelo Serevi: ok, so we have contacted you
[9:53] Rose Springvale: i’ve not been to a Town Hall before
[9:53] Rose Springvale: and no contact regarding the merger at all.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: In one email I said that, that’s true Rose…
[9:53] Rose Springvale: as estate owner
[9:53] Arria Perreault: everybody is invited in Town Hall
[9:53] Rose Springvale: i’ve never been told to repossess antyhing
[9:53] Jamie Palisades smiles. Rose and Sud
[9:53] Sonja Strom: because you were angry I had not given an answer you wanted, and I did not know you were asking me a question.
[9:53] Pip Torok: My answer to your question Stui is that AA is a beacon to the _principle_ of live-and-let-live in terms of differences between societies
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: a
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I thought you were making a statement.
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip gets a gold star
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I believe S you just leaned CDS had a responsibiltiy for AA land management.
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip as you answered
[9:54] Sonja Strom: Then when I understood it was a question, I did answer.
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: ((sorry about the bad interface))
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can you tell me how that might be seperate from the basis of much of CDS ?
[9:54] Rose Springvale: only part, and only to tell me to come pick up volleyball in LA, during the middle of ferria
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I never even asked you to do that Rose!
[9:55] Rose Springvale: and then you took it all to the forums
[9:55] Rose Springvale: oh sonja
[9:55] Rose Springvale: do you want me to copy the exchanges?

RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 2
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:31 pm
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: so, do our problems boil down to lack of communication (no blame implied) between the outgoing and new governments in CDS?
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: i.e might complicate matters at RA level….
[9:55] Rose Springvale: this is silly
[9:55] Pip Torok: (Information Officers dont normally get away with not answering questions, Stui!:)
[9:55] Rose Springvale: not going to do this
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: Mikelo, it was my experience as chancellor that suda
[9:55] Sonja Strom: yes, please send them to everyone Rose…
[9:55] Rose Springvale: no
[9:55] Sonja Strom: I would like for everyone to see them.
[9:55] Pip Torok: it may well be that, pat!
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: ne Nd rose both needed help from govt
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: rose, sonja. i;m not sure this blame game helps us
[9:55] Ranma Tardis: I stand behind Rose
[9:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Can anyone answer that question I posed ?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: if there are issues you wish to speak to me about sonja, you need to do it directly
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Especially if now you will say that I did nothing, that I was not in contact…
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: why would AA’s mission complicate matters at RA level ?
[9:56] Pip Torok: i for one wd be happy to have them from sonie
[9:56] Sonja Strom: that I told you to do anything…
[9:56] Sonja Strom: this is the opposite of the reality of the last term.
[9:56] Arria Perreault: Stui, if we were merged totally, it would be a problem
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: pat? no. new govt has a duty to deal with EOs that is irrelevant to old govt
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well let me answer
[9:56] Arria Perreault: the problem is that we don’t have all cards in our hands now
[9:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it would complicate matters on account that each law
[9:56] Arria Perreault: as RA
[9:57] Rose Springvale: what cards do you not have Arria?
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: how so, arria?
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: would have to be qualified further in AA
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: by the multicultural needs
[9:57] Ranma Tardis: sighs the power is the RA is unlimited
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: i think it is relevant jamie. it seems like ill will left over from the election inhibited communications
[9:57] Arria Perreault: land management, the list of citizen (still not published),
[9:57] Rose Springvale: yes it is!
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: ppl have not *wanted* to work with each other
[9:57] Arria Perreault: where
[9:57] Rose Springvale: the AA citizens are in the same list as the CDS citizens
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami: hence some of our problems
[9:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as if it disenfranchised or infringed the rights of one group
[9:57] Rose Springvale: and sudane has all the info re land
[9:58] Rose Springvale: and SC has the current list
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then perhaps it would be against the mission statement of AA
[9:58] Pip Torok: Pat .. imho those ppl didnt want to work with anyone, CDS or AA
[9:58] Arria Perreault: The list of citizen on the portal is still from Jan 8, 2010
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there has been upset caused in the past related to the communication between both sim groups
[9:58] Ranma Tardis: the CDS needs to return to the model of phase 2
[9:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the use of sim groups to communicate events
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: *those people* can you be specific pip?
[9:58] Jamie Palisades: ra controls aa AND old CDS thru Sudaneb& Rose! what’s the prob here?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: i’m sorry i have no control, or frankly, interest in the portal.
[9:59] Arria Perreault: this one of our tool of communication
[9:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there was at one point a set of two seperate rules
[9:59] Keila Forager: Maybe the people that update the portal need to take initiative and get the list and update it
[9:59] Jamie Palisades: that’s executive branch guys
[9:59] Arria Perreault: how I do to know who is citizen and who is not?
[9:59] Pip Torok: the ones that cause unneeded upset, Pat … 9value statement , i know)
[9:59] Rose Springvale: Sudane keeps a current list of all CDS citizens
[9:59] Jamie Palisades: you get lists from your two EOs Arria
[9:59] Ranma Tardis: the CDS is more complex that the City of Hampton Virginia, a city of 100,000 people
[10:00] Keila Forager: [9:57] Rose Springvale: and SC has the current list
[10:00] Arria Perreault: they gave to the SC not to me
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: some of the emotions on display now are teh ones which make me pessimistic about the merger
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: as has been true for 5 years
[10:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (81, 103, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you know also it’s something about the way we talk to each other too
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: This is what I mean, Pat
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose has stated that we have the list of AA citizens
[10:00] Ranma Tardis: what is gained by the merger?
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: i agree stui
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: its inclucded with the CDS list
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: you have not changed your pessimism pat
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: some people talk to only certain people
[10:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like I don’t normally talk to Patty
[10:00] Mikelo Serevi: You judge a tree by it’s fruits, so waht can we say about the merger?
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I can get agreement from Patty
[10:01] Ranma Tardis: again Pat, what is gained by the merger, what are the positive effects?
[10:01] Mikelo Serevi: I’m all for cooperation, but this just doesn’t seem to be working
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Mikelo
[10:01] Arria Perreault: I said to the last RA meeting that I was ready to publish it to the portal
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people have to make cooperation
[10:01] Arria Perreault: I am still waiting for the list
[10:01] Pip Torok: Ranma … the proportion of civic-conscious ppl in CDS cd be far greater than in Hampton …
[10:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Mik I think AA’s point is exactly that
[10:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it doesn’t come on it’s own
[10:01] Rose Springvale: i’m sorry, i stopped reading transcripts, and no one has asked me for anything
[10:02] Arria Perreault: and election is soon
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: but we don’t have to have the same political system to be cooperative
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS has not been working towad implementing the merger.
[10:02] Sonja Strom: I used to be very much in favor of the merger, and I voted for it when I was in the RA, but now I am beginning to question whether or not it is good for the CDS.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: folks
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: mikelo you can say that CDs govt ignored both EOs, leaving Sudane in. a stable state & rose in a needy unresolved one
[10:02] Rose Springvale: you have peopel here who are from the AA sims
[10:02] Ranma Tardis: we had real problems, community maintance, poverty, real crime
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: does it have to be ‘merger or bust’? can’t we think of alternatives to full merger?
[10:02] Arria Perreault: Tor, I don’t agree
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: they might suit us better
[10:02] Keila Forager: What is is that everyone thinks Rose has all info re: CDS and AA, why can’t you take the initiative to go to the correct person or group for the info you want instead of waiting for it to drop in your lap..
[10:02] Pip Torok agrees with that thought
[10:03] Arria Perreault: we have relly tried to address most of the issues AA poeple told us
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: Jamie, we hardly ignored anyone, we even invited rose to our meetings a few times
[10:03] Ranma Tardis: even now Pat you talk about 2 groups not one
[10:03] Arria Perreault: for exxample in communication
[10:03] Rose Springvale: that isn’t a proposal on the table folks. you have a merger agreement
[10:03] Tor Karlsvalt: here herer Keila
[10:03] Rose Springvale: you can choose to honor it or not
[10:03] Arria Perreault: more we have made efforts, more we got critics
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: rose, try not to think like a lawyer
[10:03] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS has had an inactive govt relative to the merger
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone want to join me on walking the line here ?
[10:03] Sylvia Tinkel: I think the only benefits to the merger are social and cultural therefore there is no need to blend the two entities on a managerial and political level
[10:03] Rose Springvale: mikelo, i never got invitations to any :meetings”
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: let’s think outside of that particular box – ‘honour or renege’
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s kinda funny to see how many times you fall off
[10:03] Arria Perreault: Tor, it’s not true
[10:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and where you land
[10:04] Sonja Strom: Tor, what would you like the government to be more active in in relation to the merger?
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I think we were not helped on our efforts
[10:04] Pip Torok is coming round to Sylvies POV
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: We’ve tried to work with AA, but have goeetn little response from the citizens. Look at this meeting
[10:04] Rose Springvale: who is we and in what way?
[10:04] Rose Springvale: you were all givin notice rightst
[10:04] Keila Forager: There is an agreement between both side, maybe you need to go through it point by point and see if you can presently abide by it, if you can’t this meeting is pointless
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: We here int this very meeting AP that the exectutive did not think it had power in AA.
[10:04] Rose Springvale: you have all been invited to the AA group
[10:04] Arria Perreault: the RA had a real good will
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: who’s we? it’s executive branch not RA from which EOs require direction Mikelo ; that new territory . i
[10:04] Kaseido Quandry: Keila, wonderful way to proceed
[10:05] Arria Perreault: I had a real good will too personally and I have made a lot of things in the domain of the communication
[10:05] Mikelo Serevi: But RA and exec work together, right?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: here is my problem
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: if the agreement on the table is *the merger agreement as written* let’s discuss that
[10:05] Sonja Strom: okay, so Jamie, you want me to give more direction to Rose?
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: new territory needs more admin attn than old is no surprise
[10:05] Rose Springvale: my problem is that this agreement has been under discussion since 2008
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: let’s go with keila’s suggestion, shall we?
[10:05] Keila Forager: Sonja , it’s your job
[10:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The agreement was written but it seems ignored
[10:05] Pip Torok: yespat
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: anyone have teh link to the merger agreement to hand?
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: Sonja, it sounded to me like co
[10:05] Arria Perreault: ok, Pat
[10:06] Sylvia Tinkel: I have RL laundry to do, which will actually be pleasant after this
[10:06] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, good idea, keila
[10:06] Sonja Strom: alright, Rose, you had better start doing as I say, haahaaa
[10:06] Sylvia Tinkel: bye all,
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: and stop telling each other ‘it’s your job’ which is not very constructive
[10:06] Sonja Strom: bye Sylvia
[10:06] Rose Springvale: then i guess you’ll have to actually talk to me sonja
[10:06] Pip Torok: like me, Sylvia! )
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: communication was an issue, yes
[10:06] Arria Perreault: bye Sylvia
[10:06] Sonja Strom: alright Rose, we can increase our contact
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: comms is *clearly* an issue but, it always is
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: But Pat when it is “your job” what should one say?
[10:06] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that if anyone wants the merger to work they have to stop choosing a side
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: it’s difficult to communicate with someone if you feel they are hostile tho
[10:07] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think finger pointing will help much
[10:07] Arria Perreault: can someone copy paste the URL of the agreement?
[10:07] Rose Springvale: smiles sweetly at pat, i agree
[10:07] Rose Springvale: i have it on notecard
[10:07] Keila Forager: Thank you Tor..and I wasn’t finger pointing, stating a fact
[10:07] Rose Springvale: will put in a box
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they just have to see it as pros and cons…
[10:07] Sonja Strom: offers of help would be helpful
[10:07] Arria Perreault: ok, Rose
[10:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (where pros isn’t prostitutes and Cons aren’t convicts)
[10:07] Object whispers: Ready!
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are all well schooled in seeing negatives
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but not positives
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami is seraching for the merger agreement…
[10:08] Ranma Tardis: but what are the positives in the merger?
[10:08] Rose Springvale: should be able to click the box now
[10:08] Mikelo Serevi: Ideally, ranma, it was all about cooperation
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in any situation you walk a line….
[10:08] Ranma Tardis: to what end?
[10:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and you tip from one way to the other
[10:08] Pip Torok: the advantages that each has from the mission-statement of the other, Ranma
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the influences you have faced
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: like I am now
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: let’s take it section by section
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I walk along here
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: 1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA’s managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: The two communities share membership
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could fall off and land in the water
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or I could fall off and land on land
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: one would be good
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: any comments on section 1?
[10:09] Rose Springvale: so
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the other would be bad
[10:09] Rose Springvale: we moved the ims
[10:09] Arria Perreault: If I read the 1st point, it means that you can transfer the rights to the Hippo system to Sonja or SUdane?
[10:09] Mikelo Serevi: So, my question is, how can we know that the AA citizens want to be CDS citizens?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: (and CDS original sims don’t have to migrate in this system)
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people just have to decide that on account of whatever experiences that have had
[10:10] Keila Forager: Ask them Mikelo
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whether they think they want the water
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or the land
[10:10] Pip Torok: yes Mikelo, so we need them here to ask them … but where are they?
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: We have invited AA to these meetings
[10:10] Rose Springvale: all rentals have gone to rudeen. No change has been made in the tier collection system, but the current systems are all no tran, a new system was adopted for cds, but has not been implemented
[10:10] Keila Forager: No you don’t, send them an IM or notecard
[10:10] Rose Springvale: mikelo
[10:10] Mikelo Serevi: But we can’t force them to show up
[10:11] Rose Springvale: many people, myself included, find this hour for meetings to be unreasonable
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: It makes me think they have no interest in democracy, which is ok
[10:11] Rose Springvale: if you only do what you’ve always done, you will always get the same resutls
[10:11] Pip Torok: and if they dont come, what do we infer from their absence? .. approval of the merger?
[10:11] Mikelo Serevi: isnt’ it 1pm in TX?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: try moving your time and place
[10:11] Ranma Tardis: problem with the CDS is so much is done during my working hours
[10:11] Arria Perreault: can Rudeen make changes in the current Hippo system?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: it is SUNDAY noon
[10:11] Keila Forager: I live in a 90 sim estate and is freq individually contacted..
[10:11] Patroklus Murakami: it is 6pm here, and many other times in other places
[10:11] Rose Springvale: Arria, i don’t konw. I know she’s been given the power to do so
[10:12] Rose Springvale: but this is one of the things i had hoped not to deal with
[10:12] Rose Springvale: i don’t script
[10:12] Arria Perreault: ok. we can ask her to make a test
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: We will never please everyone, but to have no AA citizens at all
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: They can’t all be in the wrong time zone
[10:12] Frances Ying: i am an AA citizen
[10:12] Rose Springvale: the idea was that CDS needed a new system too
[10:12] Rose Springvale: and actually approved it
[10:12] Arria Perreault: it means also the Exec can set for sale a land in AA?
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I’m gald you came, frances. What do you think about the merger?
[10:12] Arria Perreault: Rose, we are talking about AA now
[10:13] Rose Springvale: confused
[10:13] Frances Ying: i am v new
[10:13] Pip Torok: well in Imotali’s time-zone it certainl is awkward for her ….
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: are we done with section 1?
[10:13] Arria Perreault: still one question
[10:13] Ranma Tardis: other than being a part of each others group, what do we gain?
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: shame we couldn’t link the RA up to group chat
[10:14] Patroklus Murakami: yes arria?
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then it would cascade further
[10:14] Arria Perreault: for example about Sacromonte: the Exec could have decided to block the homestead for a re-development?
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry back the US Census was at the door
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or should the RA transcripts be sent thru Group notices too
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Can the Chancellor appoint officers in the AA group?
[10:14] Mikelo Serevi: But that would be forcing people to participate, stui
[10:14] Pip Torok: what we gain is what ive said once already, Ranma …
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: no Mikelo
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they close the chat
[10:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it goes away
[10:14] Ranma Tardis: I do not wish to be in the CDS
[10:15] Rose Springvale: folks i’m a little overwhelmed here. and i’ve got company .. it being sunday noon.
[10:15] Danton Sideways: It’s a question of HOW CDS would “take over” AA
[10:15] Rose Springvale: ah
[10:15] Rose Springvale: danton
[10:15] Ranma Tardis: I am a part of AA as a path to learning and inner peace
[10:15] Arria Perreault: if I read this well, we could
[10:15] Rose Springvale: that is the problem
[10:15] Danton Sideways: that requires dipllomacy
[10:15] Rose Springvale: CDS doesnt’ take over AA. Aa doesnt’ take over CDS
[10:15] Rose Springvale: it is a merger of equals
[10:15] Danton Sideways: which Jamie provided at one point
[10:15] Rose Springvale: i believe it was meant to be that all along
[10:16] Rose Springvale: that is what i represented to AA at least
[10:16] Danton Sideways: Item one says CDS takes over the adinistaion
[10:16] Rose Springvale: no
[10:16] Danton Sideways: *aministration of everything
[10:16] Pip Torok: good thought Danton … maybe the real fight is between the dplomatic and the nondiplomatic ….
[10:16] Arria Perreault: well the way we can decide to stop is not equal
[10:16] Ranma Tardis: why cant the 2 groups exsit side by side in cooperation?
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think AA was ready for that ‘takeover’
[10:16] Sonja Strom: I understood the merger as AA joining the CDS, that is, adopting to the institutions of the CDS.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[10:16] Arria Perreault: here we need a 2/3 majority in the RA
[10:16] Hug & Kiss NX4 Attachment: M&P Hug & Kiss NX Animations ready.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: having responsibilty isn’t a take over
[10:16] Mikelo Serevi: This is what I was thinking, ranma
[10:17] Danton Sideways: Soime people seem to think it is
[10:17] Arria Perreault: the RA is the RA of all, sorry
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: “all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens,”
[10:17] Ranma Tardis: AA remains a group and the CDS remains a group
[10:17] Danton Sideways: RA is not the problem, administration is
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: and thereby part of the CDS political system
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I think everyone agreed that the RA was for all
[10:17] Mikelo Serevi: But rose, the RA/exec does have power over AA
[10:17] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think AA ppl were really prepared for that
10:17] Pip Torok: thats not in the agreement Ranma
[10:17] Arria Perreault: I understand now we could ask the Chancellor to block Sacromonte for our project
[10:17] Rose Springvale: pat, i think you are talking about me now
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I recall something that is true for lots of CDS meetings
[10:18] Rose Springvale: Arria
[10:18] Mikelo Serevi: It does seem like a takeover, though I don’t think we’re interested in taking over
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Micael said it once
[10:18] Patroklus Murakami: not really rose
[10:18] Danton Sideways: I think it requires putting gloves on (not punching gloves”
[10:18] Rose Springvale: so long as land and tier doesn’t change
[10:18] Ranma Tardis: the CDS get very into the letering of the laws and not the intent
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it has to do with trustworthy space
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the lack of true dialogue
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: lots of CDS meetings
[10:18] Sonja Strom: Stui, what more true dialogue would you like to have?
[10:18] Danton Sideways: right to trust
[10:18] Pip Torok: Mikelo … it should be a _connection_ … the real meaning of Anschluss btw
[10:18] Danton Sideways: but you have to be trust-worthy
[10:19] Arria Perreault: I am done with point 1, Pat
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are taken up with a few people having dialogic conversation
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the rest
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well is not appreciated
[10:19] Patroklus Murakami: problem is, a lot of ppl don’t trust each other
[10:19] Rose Springvale: folks, i am going to have to go. I think you need to ask yourselves if your misgiving are based on fact, or your own dislike of certain people and their positions.
[10:19] Arria Perreault: I think Sonja has asked a question about point 2
[10:19] Mikelo Serevi: Ok, cu later rose
[10:19] Rose Springvale: thank you for your interest
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people address statements to certain people
[10:19] Patroklus Murakami: bye rose, thanks for coming
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: see you Rose
[10:19] Danton Sideways: Bye Rose
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: On rent boxes, Arria, there’s some facts to clear up. Sudane had the right to run the AA rent boxes since last year. She does not WANT it because she does not WANT to change from the system SHE created, which works good for her but does not really really permit any powers ot be give to anyonen other than Sudane (through Rudeen and her secret CSDF backup owner). And through the end of my term, we considered the AA HIPPO bixes an exeperiment. Which IN MY VIEWS Sonja should have acted to bring into CDS .. but that’s HER choice. Rose has always wanted to dump the rent box job on Sudane, or SOMEone.
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for coming rose.
[10:19] Sonja Strom: bye Rose
[10:19] Arria Perreault: bye Rose
[10:19] Pip Torok: ok Rose I hope youve gathered my thoughts at least
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so listen only for the responses from that person
[10:19] Sonja Strom: we will be in more contact
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the rest is noise
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: On Sacromomnte, CDS HAS zoing control there now! But you must deal with tenant issues like the rest of CDS, not just do a socialist seizure of private property
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not dialogue at CDS for the most part
[10:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s monologue
[10:20] Pip Torok: “and the rest is silence” (Hamlet)
[10:20] Arria Perreault: Ok, Jamie, we will find a way with Sudane
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: let’s try section 2, eh?
[10:20] Arria Perreault: I am fine with two systems during a transistion period
[10:20] Patroklus Murakami: 2. AA’s SL groups will be maintained and administratively supported by CDS government, including the public interest lists; members of those lists may also be invited as appropriate to join other CDS groups. The exception is that SL groups used for land administration (in other words, government, not citizen groups) may be altered and consolidated.
[10:20] Ranma Tardis: the CDS is very good about silencing people who disagree with them
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: Well, Arria, with respect to the LRA, “we” MUST mean “Chancellot” under our laws
[10:21] Keila Forager: I totally agree Ranma
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t see any one beign silenced here
[10:21] Sonja Strom: Jamie, at one point this term I contacted Rose to let her know the RA would like to work on developing Sacromonte, and Rose responded that they had no right to do it.
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: Two systems during a transition is exacly what we were doing
[10:21] Kaseido Quandry: hey Gwyn
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: and must respectfully disagree with sonja and keila
[10:21] Arria Perreault: yes, Jamie
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: but soeone will have to make one of them change eventually
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi sorry…
[10:21] Pip Torok: oh Ranma … really! … how about a helpful positive statement!
[10:21] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think we want to silence anyone
[10:21] Ranma Tardis: but what they are saying is being put down by unfair tatics
[10:22] Schmilsson Nilsson: Thanks for having me here. Have to run.
[10:22] Mikelo Serevi: Although, some of the things you’re saying don’t seem fair to me, ranma
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have comments on section 2 of the merger agreement?
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: Snja, if I had bene you I would have brought THAT to the RA and then the SC
[10:22] Arria Perreault: in french, I would use “on” as undertmined and not “nous” (which would include me)
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: As EO Rose works … for … you
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: but maybe you have not managed her very well?
[10:22] Ranma Tardis: well I left the CDS to join Kendra in phase III
[10:22] Pip Torok: imo its for AA people to talk about this … what can CDS people add in all honesty?
[10:23] Sonja Strom: bye Schmilsson
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: but, um, maybe your supervision of her has not gone well? And is that only her fault?
[10:23] Keila Forager: Why Pip, it’s a merger BETWEEN Cds and AA
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: why do you say that Pip?
[10:23] Sonja Strom: Jamie, I did bring that to the RA.
[10:23] Mikelo Serevi: My understanding was, rose has not been cooperative
[10:23] Ranma Tardis: I support Rose
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: And you heard that from which side, Mikelo?
[10:23] Pip Torok: then if you left the CDS Ranma, how do you think you are helping us her and now?
[10:23] Delia Lake: in what ways, Mikelo?
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, baiting your successor is not really very fair. perhaps you could give sonja the benefit of your advice privately?
[10:23] Sonja Strom: I did not bring it to the SC… maybe I should have done that.
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my understanding is that we come to RA to mudsling
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: I find Rose very cooperative
[10:24] Ranma Tardis: Rose brought me into AA
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: Pat I like Sonja but if you are the RA it is your job, not to slag employees, but to have your heda of vovt\esal with them
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that depending on which side of the hall we sit
[10:24] Arria Perreault: Jamie, many people have tried to find ways to cooperate, not only with Rose, but more generally
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should stop discussing rose, since she is no longer here?
[10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Obviously she wanted a different chancellor, but I am sure she would work with anyone.
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: Rose is always cooperative as long as you treat her nicely
[10:24] Delia Lake: i keep hearing that Rose has not been cooperative but I hear nothing to back that up
[10:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we pick up the mud and hurl it across the front
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: sortr, “have your head of govt deal with them”
[10:24] Pip Torok: Stui … in that case be the person wih no mud to sling ….
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: indeed
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip
[10:25] Delia Lake: if we are to just throw accusations out with no back up we will not get very far
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we can look at s. 3?
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I often find I don’t mud sling
[10:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I just ask for facts
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I think CDS govt seems to have thought Rose had all the responsibility for AA management.
[10:25] Arria Perreault: on point 3, I have many questions
[10:25] Jamie Palisades smiles : who’ve you brought in, Pat? If you want to slag personalities here, you;re not immune, How about we talk about objective performance of duties, not personalities?
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: 3. As a project operated in Linden Lab’s “Educational sim” class, AA sims may only be transferred to another duly qualified nonprofit organization. AA sims will be maintained in their current nonprofit status, and [transferred to a new nonprofit organization as stated in paragraph 5.
The AA sims will remain at their current rents, tier and pricing, for one year after acceptance, so long as the Linden sim tier prices applicable to them do not change. [See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the me
[10:26] Pip Torok: yes lets look at section3
[10:26] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[10:26] Jayme Mistwalker: agrees
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the merged estates.] Public land and buildings in AA shall become the property of CDS. All AA community builds will be subject to CDS law regarding community assets and theme build protection for AA’s recreation of 13th century Arabic Granada, Spain. AA makes no representation that such structures will be available as copies for archive purposes, but will
take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to supply archived copies and content where such
[10:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all I often am forced to return from being called filibuster or perhaps disruptive
[10:26] Arria Perreault: first one: should this rl org be only under american law? if it is under american law, what are the consequences for non-US citizen?
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: where such exist. CDS agrees to take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to support the maintenance and operation of such buildings.
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: i didnt see anything in that section that has not worked. Did anyone else?
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two different things to discuss separately IMHO
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no present nonconforming builds or covenant violations on the AA sims. All building, structure and style terms of the present AA covenant will be retained.
[10:26] Arria Perreault: for me, it’s a real concern
[10:27] Arria Perreault: I hope Jamie can give an answer
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: Pat? Typing in the whle thing is a conversation blocker, slow down please
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: to what, Arris, sorry?
[10:27] Keila Forager: SL is US, so why shouldn’t rl org be us?
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: *Arria
[10:27] Arria Perreault: should this rl org be only under american law? if it is under american law, what are the consequences for non-US citizen?
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: US law?
[10:27] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, as I understand it, that’s an issue with what Linden Lab requires to ceritfy non-profit status
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: ah
[10:27] Arria Perreault: no
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: good one! Not sure we can do it well today
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: how is a NP any more worrisuome than a single AV holing titlle to all of CDS and the moneuy?
[10:28] Arria Perreault: can a non US citizen be member of the board for example
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: money?*
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: That is a good question, arria
[10:28] Arria Perreault: what are the consequences for members rearding rl laws
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: today all of CDS is under US law because the primary and legit owner of “Rudeen Edo” is a US citizen
[10:28] Pip Torok: Arria, imo it comes down to what law the owner of LL hardware is under (I meant jurisdiction not law)
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Any Board would be safer for the group than one AV.
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: oh, as it linden labs
[10:29] Kaseido Quandry: I haven’t done a 50(c)(3) in about 15 years, so I can’t asnwer – but it’s an easily answered question
[10:29] Arria Perreault: yes, but it’s different
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: except (smile at gwyn) when Rudeen is being driven by someone in a different country, i suppose
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: no it isn’t
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s hear the answer then, Kas.
[10:29] Delia Lake: how is that different, Arria?
[10:29] Pip Torok: and the way I see it is that it is under State of California law ….
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: We trust the current arrangement personally.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: but it really isn’t safe in an objective manner.
[10:30] Arria Perreault: I think that LL provide a service and if someone has trouble with it or does something bad, the american law is applied
[10:30] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll look it up and post and answer on the forums later – but *why are you asking this question two years into the process* for gods’ sakes?!
[10:30] Pip Torok: (though of course I could be wrong)
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: .. let me ask, Arria, is the nonprofit copr really the root problem here? Earlier I was hearing Pat, Mikelo, Rose, Sonja and others mostly talk about communication problems between a branch of CDS govt and AA EO. That’s not a jurisdiction or law issue, no
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, we actually asked that question in 2005
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we didn’t like the answer back then.
[10:30] Arria Perreault: in our case, we take a responsibility by being a member of this org
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But things change
[10:30] Arria Perreault: especially a financial responsibility
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think the non-profit is much of an issue. just a stick to beat the current RA and chancellor with
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria, Sudane could legally sell the land under our feet as we speak
[10:31] Arria Perreault: I don’t agree, Pat
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: the next RA could appoint two nominees to be teh CDS reps
[10:31] Kaseido Quandry: so, the RA voted for the merger agreement, and now the dissidents seek to overturn the result? Is that your democracy?
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: nto a difficultl decision
[10:31] Ranma Tardis: yes she can
[10:31] Delia Lake: the nonprofit status of AA is a rl legal requirement as i read it
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: no kas
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: A NP board would be far more stable than a single AV
[10:32] Patroklus Murakami: the previousl government made no progress on this and now blames the current one
[10:32] Jamie Palisades smiles. as of today the person or persons who control Rudeen acn take all of CDS money with a single act. That is NOT Rose who turns it all over to Rudeen. The legal recourse of CDS would be through US law (or the law of the locality of an illegal user of Rudeen) – unless we think Linden Labs actually takes enforcement actions
[10:32] Pip Torok agrees with Tor and something we should all be aware of, while knowing Sudane is not that sort of person … anything but …
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: The trouble is, NP board members would have to reveal themselves
[10:32] Arria Perreault: and what happen if the activities of AA are considered as non compatible with this status by LL?
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a more subtle question I’m actually chairperson of the board of a non-profit in my country; if I call Rose and Sudane tomorrow and ask them to transfer all land into the name of “my” organisation, would everybody be happy with it? And if not, why not?
[10:32] Arria Perreault: LL can act against VDI
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi: Some might see that as a privacy issue
[10:32] Arria Perreault: ?
[10:32] Ranma Tardis: sighs, it would be in small claims court
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Pip, I don”t mean to suggest Sudane would.
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: Note, the prior regime (Ulrika) used its power in a very unilateral way – as I recall, you didn;t like it
[10:32] Ranma Tardis: in the USA it is about actual damages
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: let’s stick to the AA non-profit, and leave whether CDS should have one for the CDS sims to another day
[10:33] Arria Perreault: can LL act against VDI ?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: of course
[10:33] Mikelo Serevi: gwyn, it would have to be decided democratically, not just with a phone call
[10:33] Arria Perreault: good to know
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Mikelo!
[10:33] Ranma Tardis: thus to bring suit for 100 or so dollars is goofy
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the point is, we should decide that democratically, not just take the agreement literally?
[10:33] Pip Torok: ??? Ranma
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Pat, yes, we could just start with the AA sims)
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Good question Gwyn. I’d love to see a nonUS nonprofit and I KNOW it would work for LL due to other instances. Old AA’s corp, by the way, was Canadian But if it was you, well, as a CDS citizen I would want some conttrols around your fiduciary duty As we have now with the AA nonprofit. As opposed to a lawless, gullible “trust me”
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks gwyn, I was mentioning Sudane cuz I don’t think a board or NP copr is to be feared.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[10:34] Patroklus Murakami: the merger agreement *only* needs a non-profit for the AA sims
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I agree!
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: indeed preferable.
[10:34] Delia Lake: and, i might also as, Gwyn, would you be interested in, or willing to join the board of VDI?
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Pat, that’s right
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is the question Arria asked before — am I allowed to?
[10:35] Arria Perreault: can a non US citizen be member?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly.
[10:35] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not sure a nonprofit is trustworthy by definition
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not only member — chairperson of the board for instance
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And if so, what does that entail? Do we need to register with the US IRS?
[10:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a non profit is less trustworthy than any other setup why ?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we” meaning any non-US citizen
[10:35] Ranma Tardis: my point is the CDS has to be either non profit or profit, legally we can not be both
[10:36] Delia Lake: VDI is registered with the US IRS
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Ranma, yes! I’d like to address that later)
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Delia
[10:36] Arria Perreault: and finally what are the relation between VDI and the CDS money, regarding rl taxes for example?
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i think that is an important point ranma
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I infer that I’d have to register first with the US IRS as a person
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: there is NOTHING in the merger, fully completed, that requies a nonprofit or corporate overship for old CDS. It’s only a Q of whether you want the discount .. AND an issue for who in CDS is willing to be IDENTIFIED as working for the nonprofit. THAT is an anonimity issue – and DOES in some states bar anonymous avatars from being on the board
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you have an idea what that entails? (I actually do)
[10:37] Ranma Tardis: yes that too is a problem
[10:37] Arria Perreault: I think all these points have to be cleared
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ironically, in my country, non-profits can have anonymous persons as members, although not as chairpersons of the board)
[10:37] Patroklus Murakami: i think we begin to see why neither this goverment nor the previous one made any progress on this issue
[10:37] Arria Perreault: yes, Pat
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: But yes, besides the difficulties, I think a NP could be fine
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Pat. That was my point. I was not joking when I said that we started discussing this in 2005.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: well, gwyn, i do not think that a US nonprofit can have only US taxpayer directors, fwiw, but the GENEREAL point about anonymity and jurisdiction is a good one. I donl;t fault Rose for using a US corp last year – we discussed it — it was fast, and better than leaving the thing in the old, Manen-affiliated corp, as he’d left.
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, laws change, of course.
[10:38] Mikelo Serevi: We’ve had higher priorities though
[10:38] Delia Lake: i am on the board of VDI and under my rl name
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: so is the question citizenship or anonymity?
[10:38] Arria Perreault: for me, having a rl org for CDS (even for a part) is a real concern
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Jamie, and in any case, AA is AA
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, why?
[10:39] Ranma Tardis: in the US one has to be a real person, a real ID and a real tax number
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue, Kas, is really: how can ANY citizen participate in the non-profit if they wish — and not be excluded for, mmmh, legal or administrative issues.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: Kas, they are both legit questions – though I agree with Pat on this much – I am not sure you have to solve this one as a gating condition for the merger being allowed to complete.
[10:39] Ranma Tardis: the IRS is on the floor beyneth me at work
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: i agree with jamie on this
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Jamie… but that has to be a consensual point… because right now it certainly isn’t.
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well i agree too!
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And as said, if the question is: “Rose doesn’t want the ownership of the AA sims to be in VDI”, then I have mmmh…. at least 3 non-profits in stand-by, one of them in NY.
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Imotali
RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 3
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:32 pm
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All would be as “opaque” as VDI of course — no reason to trust any of them!
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: thing is, this is in the ‘too hard’ box because first of all, it’s hard and secondly, we have been led to believe for several months that the AA citizens are revolting (if you see what i mean)
[10:41] Kaseido Quandry: oof, Imotali!
[10:41] Pip Torok: hi Imotali!!!
[10:41] Imotali Antiesse: sorry kas
[10:41] Imotali Antiesse: lol
[10:41] anissa2008 GossipGirl: hi everyone
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, i just need to make a call to Rose
[10:41] Sonja Strom: hi anissa
[10:41] Sonja Strom: welcome
[10:41] Imotali Antiesse: over here anis
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is — would that be acceptable?
[10:41] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think the letter of the merger agreement is really is question
[10:41] Patroklus Murakami: hi anissa
[10:42] Danton Sideways: Having rl people that you can ientify is BETTER, in my opinion
[10:42] anissa2008 GossipGirl shouts: where?
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: and, um, Gwyn, you are saying you would be OK if a US NY nonprofit is used, as long as it was yours? sorry, I missed the point maybe?
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: HI Imotali, hi anissa
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: are we really talking about who gets control here?
[10:42] Imotali Antiesse: hei Lil
[10:42] Keila Forager: Sounds like it Jamie..
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: can it be as simple as “mine mine. no, mine mine”?
[10:42] Keila Forager:
[10:42] Jamie Palisades:
[10:42] Mikelo Serevi: yes, the NP is rather a control issue, esp if they have ben created already
[10:42] Delia Lake: and Gwyn that you “have” a NY nonprofit? as a non US citizen?
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think the merger is too hard or bad. The “friendly nation” idea is my fallback postition tho
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my point is — if any citizen wishes want to be part of the non-profit, are they allowed to? (legally, administratively, practically…)
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: Soooooo Gwyn would like one from Gwyn better, and it woudl be safe and acceptabl,e but the one with Rose and Delia isn;t? enlighten me
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will we have to say: “sorry, you can’t be part of it, it’s too complicated”
[10:43] Delia Lake is not sure how VDI is opaque either. it is Rose, me and Micael under our rl names
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: I think this is possible, there are web hosting co-ops that have international memberships
[10:43] Keila Forager: and shouldn’t the NP stand for what CDS is about..
[10:43] Danton Sideways: Sudane is opaque
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “opaque” in the sense that we don’t know if anyone else can be part of it, Delia, or what steps to take to be part of it
[10:44] Keila Forager: Not just any old NP
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes, well, I’m turning the tables here and suggest looking it from the other angle.
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, honestly, i see any such corp as being excatly like Sudane – to meet CDS’ needs – in the sense that it would need to be a long term trusted “trustee” kind of thing ABOVE politics
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, that seems a little disingenuous, if you have working experience with US nonprofits
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just with two really, Kas
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: i thikn “what form do you trust” is a fake issue, and WHO will you trust as the real one
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is tin, the other huge.
[10:44] Delia Lake: that’s not opaque, language issue maybe
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *tiny
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: If you ask me, the idea of a corp owning CDS is long overdue.
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: the law’s not terribly complex, and it doesn’t change much at all
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Jamie. So it’s not the form, but the people?
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: look, we’ve been told the NP is a big issue because it’s evidence that ‘CDS is not holding up its side of the bargain’
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, like Pat says
[10:45] Ranma Tardis: I admit to having no experience with non profit, I am a part of the excetive branch of the USGov
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: are we agreed that it is not such a big deal after all?
[10:45] Jamie Palisades: Well, you said Gwyn’s US NP is OK, and Rose’s isn;t
[10:45] Keila Forager: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.
[10:45] Delia Lake: other people could be elected to the dVDI boar
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why we’re trying to figure out, where is the “problem” really.
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes delia, that would be a way forward
[10:45] Danton Sideways: any people – as long as we trust them
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: provided they are US citizens
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: probably
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Danton I would say, any people, as long as we can elect them in and out of office
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: you don’t really have to trust them – IRS agents handle that problem for you :p
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Kas
[10:46] Danton Sideways: yes appoint them or cancel
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: May I mention a specific concrete problem? No, Pat, nonUS citizens can be on a NP in the US. like Gwyn’s. But here’s an issue: SUDANE (nice person, trustworthy, also Gwyn’s bus partner) does not WANT to be on any nonprofit boards. Period.
[10:46] Ranma Tardis: beware they are mean
[10:46] Danton Sideways: as an administrative measure
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: Sudane;s hard to replace!
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: if we are agreed this is not such a problem, can we move on?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[10:47] Mikelo Serevi: ok pat
[10:47] Ranma Tardis: the issue is for a complete merger the CDS has to become a non profit
[10:47] Jamie Palisades: a solution that means we have to lose Sudane as a EO would be a big pain in the rear for CDS
[10:47] Kaseido Quandry: no, Ranma, that’s just wrong
[10:47] Delia Lake: Gwyn, i’m getting confused he re. you say you don’t know if non US citizens can be on boards of US nonprofits, or if there can be anonymous board members yet you said earlier that you HAVE a nonprofit in New York? what am i missing to make sense of this?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not quite, Ranma. It just needs to create a new one for the AA sims.
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: that’s another issue ranma. can we be both?
[10:48] Danton Sideways: There could also be differential tier
[10:48] Ranma Tardis: it has nothing to do with who is a citizen of what country
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Ranma, CDS doesn’t have to be NP.
[10:48] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, I can’t see any reason why not
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have access to one, Delia, in the sense that it is a nonprofit that would definitely be able to accept the AA sims. but it’s not “my” non-profit at all.
[10:48] Danton Sideways: since it is lower in np AA
[10:48] Ranma Tardis: the people in the cds are making profit
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not a member in that one
[10:48] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not getting a cut, ranma
[10:49] Patroklus Murakami: there are some potential problems with having dual systems. if the RL non-profit takes direction from the CDS, should non-AA citizens get to determine who the board members are?
[10:49] Ranma Tardis: do you get a salary?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, also, it’s a specific nonprofit that won’t have a discount from LL. They asked, and LL refused to grant them one. But that’s a secondary issue
[10:49] Jamie Palisades: damn, sound like i missed a great graft opportunity
[10:49] Kaseido Quandry: Salary is not profit, Ranma
[10:49] Jayme Mistwalker: doesnt the profit help fund entertainment?
[10:49] Delia Lake: ok. so can you enlighten us as to what “have access to one” means? i guess i could say that i have access to other nonprofits also
[10:49] Mikelo Serevi: no salary, though I get a stipend for being archivist
[10:49] Ranma Tardis: you voted yourself that money
[10:49] Pip Torok: Ranma I’ll keep saying it: the CDS is here to survive financially, not “make a profit” ….
[10:49] Jayme Mistwalker: it’s not like the RA is out buying gucci
[10:49] Mikelo Serevi: I actually didn’t want the stipend
[10:49] Ranma Tardis: the reserve is too high
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Access means just that — I can ask them on the CDS/AA behalf to accept the island transfer
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: let’s foucs here?
[10:50] Mikelo Serevi: Well, that’s different from making a profit, since there’s no distribution
[10:50] Mikelo Serevi: ok kas
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Good I hate Gucci
[10:50] Danton Sideways: CDS members accept higher prices and a reserve
[10:50] Danton Sideways: *old CDS
[10:50] Jamie Palisades: not sure that’s enough Gwyn. Do you TRUST them to keep CDS property without trashing it? Like the Ulrikaquake
[10:50] Ranma Tardis: we need to do this for wanting to do this and not monatary gain
[10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy, here comes Ulrika.
[10:51] Mikelo Serevi: Yeah, I’m uncomfortable about having a simple transfer to an arbitrary corp
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the focus mostly is: how important it is for the merger to have a different NP to hold the AA sims; then: if the sims are transferred to another nonprofit, where should it be located and is *any* citizen allowed to be a member and be elected to its board? And finally: can *existing* nonprofits absorb the AA sims or do we need to create a new nonprofit for that?
[10:51] Delia Lake: and if this unknown nonprofit were willing to accept an island, or 6 of them, would it be made known what this nonprofit is and who runs it?
[10:51] Jamie Palisades: Tor, it;s relevant only in that it illustrates that a one avatar system has a heavy risk
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: I trust them as much as I trust VDI
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Delia.
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: annd how do we get to a place where CDS as a whole could trust oe?
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: one
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: I can’t fathom the requirement for *another* nonprofit; easy enough to replace the VDI board
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: or can we?
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: As a newcommer, after hearing all the Ulrika stories, I am MORE comfortable with a corp than with a single AV.
[10:52] Ranma Tardis: please stop bashing my friend Ulrika or should we call her snowflake?
[10:52] Jamie Palisades: (Though Pat points out, NOT needed to resolve this term)
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: yes. I wonder if that’s an alternative suggestion that would please everyone.
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: and, as we don’t need to resolve this term, i suggest we move on
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: and if the problem is people wanting to be on the board while remaining anonymous, that *is* a problem under US law
[10:52] Patroklus Murakami: these ideas need quite a bit of discussion
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll paste s.4 in three parts
[10:53] Ranma Tardis: will not float my friend Pat
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: That’s good point, kas
[10:53] Kaseido Quandry: I can see how it could be done, but it’d be fairly expensive
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might be able to do so by proxy, Kas, but then it raises the next issue — would be allow citizens to vote by proxy?
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: apologies to anyone seeing lots of text fly by
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: And this is a practical point for transfer to another NP
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly
[10:53] anissa2008 GossipGirl: apology accepted:p
[10:53] Danton Sideways: My head spins
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: 4. The CDS RA will be increased by a number equal to the higher of
* (a) two, or
* (b) the number of additional members that would be added to the RA under CDS law by reason of the additional number of citizens added under Para 1 above.
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe anissa
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: In calculating that number, (a) each new CDS citizen from AA will be counted, plus (b) any “converting dual citizens.” A “converting dual citizen” is a current CDS citizen who wishes to designate AA’s sims as their primary residence within CDS; who does so by informing the CDS chancellor in writing within a reasonably set deadline; and who does not currently serve on the CDS RA.
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: The additional vacant RA positions will be filled by a process designated by AA management, consistent with AA law, from among persons who are (a) new CDS citizens from AA will be counted and (b) any “converting dual citizens.” The newly selected RA members shall serve either (a)] the remainder of the current RA term [or (b), if they are selected less than one month prior to the closing date for RA candidacy in the next RA general election, for the remainder of the current term plus the next term.
[10:54] Kaseido Quandry: gwyn, that could be done in corporate bylaws – I don’t see much problem
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: no probleme with any of this i assume?
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think there’s a problem with 4, no
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: nope
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: pat, seems to me that all of THAT one has worked out or become moot OK
[10:54] Patroklus Murakami: okay, s5
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We grumbled a bit at the beginning of the last term, but we pretty much accepted everything
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the ben
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: or the benefit of the CDS government.
[10:55] anissa2008 GossipGirl: Patroklus can you make a notecard and send it to us?
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: The estate owner for the AA Sims for the first year will be nominated by AA, to serve until the eighth calendar day after the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and afterwards by the usual CDS government methods. The AA EO must (a) act as an officer or agent of the new nonprofit entity; (b) agree to report to and take direction from the CDS government under the same terms as the current CDS EO, subject to the terms explicitly stated in this offer;
[10:55] anissa2008 GossipGirl: maybe we can read it at ease then
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: and (c) agree to cooperate with the affiliation or merger of the new nonprofit entity, with a later new CDS nonprofit organization, if at a later time the CDS by legislation elects to subject the ownership of its other CDS sims to control by a nonprofit organizations.
[10:55] Kaseido Quandry: arissa, the meger agreement is in the blue box
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: in the blue box arissa
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the notecard is on the light blue cube in front of Sonja, anissa)
[10:55] Jamie Palisades: anissa, it’s all in the posted RA minutes etc
[10:55] anissa2008 GossipGirl: oh okay thanks
[10:55] Frances Ying: i have to go, bye everyone
[10:56] Kaseido Quandry: thanks for coming, Frances!
[10:56] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘final merger agt’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Locus%20Amoenus/115/163/23 ).
[10:56] Patroklus Murakami: same issue as s.3 yes?
[10:56] Patroklus Murakami: bye frances
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, here we have an *additional* problem. What happens if the Chancellor is not allowed/too complicated legally or administravely to be part of the board?
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: bye frances
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does that mean that a Chancellor that knows beforehand that they cannot be part of the board will not be allowed to run as a candidate?
[10:56] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn: then we have the wrong legal structure
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, *tell me* these questions weren’t raised and discussed when this thing was originally negotiated!
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: hey Solomon!
[10:57] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sol
[10:57] Jamie Palisades: which you yourself point out is not the case, my lil portugues buddy who runs US nonprofits
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: What prevents the Chancellor from being on the board?
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: kas, there were some, ahem, issues around discussing anything when this was passed
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue is that *any* citizen should be able to run for Chancellor if they wish. This clause of the agreement would just give some citizens that right.
[10:57] Solomon Mosely waves, settling in
[10:57] Solomon Mosely: hi all
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: oh, on jamie’s alp i see
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: Yeah, Pat claims that the evil nonCDSF RA and chancellor muzzles him they must have been pretty powerful folks
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I don’t *run* them lol — I’m just a member!)
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: like the chancellor would be, gwyn
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor: legal issues, for instance.
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that we have a Cuban or Chinese Chancellor
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … they might not be allowed to be part of the board of the NP
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so they couldn’t run for Chancellor
[10:58] Patroklus Murakami: this got rammed through the RA with v little discussion. when qns were raised, we were told they were ‘offensive’. it inhibited thorough discussion
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. thus limiting “running for Chancellor” as a privilege of some “selected few”
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: Drop the FUD gwyn can we agree that any leglal structure we use must accomodate any CDS-legal chancellor candidate, who must be able to sit on or place a rep on that board? Is say “rep” in case anonymity is an issue
[10:59] Keila Forager: But somehow it still got included as part of the agreement that past
[10:59] anissa2008 GossipGirl: that’s not really democratic, no offense
[10:59] Patroklus Murakami: that’s true gwyn but… this is the agreement that RA made
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas.
[10:59] Ranma Tardis: which can be broken in July
[11:00] You decline The Blarney Stone Irish Bar – Du, Dublin (81, 103, 25) from A group member named Chuckie Breda.
[11:00] Jamie Palisades: as of today CDS can change the law and put anyone it wants on that silly VDI board, or move AA to a DIFFERENT board after June, no? Assuming you silly peoiple don;t destroy the merger before then
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Isn’t the board really going to be passive?
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, yes
[11:01] Ranma Tardis: it is up to the people of AA to contnue or depart
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends on what “passive” means
[11:01] Mikelo Serevi: passive in theory
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: is it really going to be a problem if a very vew cannot be on the board?
[11:01] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A typical example… imagine that the board decides to resell the land to, say, Desmond.
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: all it can do is hold the property and conduct such activitiy as is appropriate for a 501(c)(3)
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is nothing in the merger agreement that prevents that from happening.
[11:01] Ranma Tardis: as always I refuse to give my quiet passive consent
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: I see G, but we are probably not likely to see that happen.
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, that would terminate the nonprofit status, and open the board members to civil and criminal charges
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: and Sudane could seel to Caladon now.
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: that’s more blue sky that Sundane wiping the sims. Do be real.
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why would that terminate the nonprofit status? They could sell the sims without profit
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I think that is a red herring.
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Any board would have to vote.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Surely nonprofits can get rid of their assets, and get a small fee to support their activities doing that.
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: three of the trustees would have to agree.
[11:03] Kaseido Quandry: the purpose of the nonprofit, approved by the IRS, is to manage certain properties in Second Life and conduct educational and cutltural activities
[11:03] Patroklus Murakami: so, we’re back to ‘trust’ again
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Tor — and what’s the problem with that?
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: NPs can donate excess to other NPs
[11:03] Kaseido Quandry: to do otherwise opens the directors up to US legal charges
[11:03] Ranma Tardis: what if the citizens of AA want to remain non profit?
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ok. So they could transfer it to another NP.
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, a coporation can – a specific purpose 501(c)(3) cannot
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think three trustees wouls agree to sell the sims unless the RA instructed them too
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I don’t see why they couldn’t agree on that
[11:04] Ranma Tardis: the RA has too much power
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: this is not a real issue.
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another issue, Ranma…
[11:04] Ranma Tardis: it is the issue of freedom
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Kas… I’m glad you think that way, but the point is, it’s really just a question to transfer trust.
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Kas. A corp would still be favorable to one AV having ALL the real power.
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: no, Gwyn, it’s not
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes it is
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: one is a mater of trust, one is a matter of trust plus very vigorous enforcement of US law
[11:05] anissa2008 GossipGirl: i agree with ranma personally
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: that is it! We TRUST Sudane.
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kas. Then it means that it *has* to be a US nonprofit then
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: or canadian law
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a Canadian one.
[11:06] Ranma Tardis: also anything fincianal is done by people in the open, not doing so might bring up charges under the Patroit act
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: folks, we are at the two hour mark. i think we are adding to the box marked ‘non-profit’ issues
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: “Sudane is nice” is a very different thing from “Directors can go to RL jail”
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we move on and complete consideration of all the merger agreement before we conclude
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: okay?
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: agreed
[11:06] Solomon Mosely: if this is such an issue, can’t the exec and ra direct the NP board to modify the charter?
[11:06] Pip Torok: agreed
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: ok pat
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: Solomon, yes!
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, Kas — the merger agreement says that the AA sims are going to be transferred to ANOTHER non-profit now Surely taht is allowed?
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Gwyn wasn’t here earlier.
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: okay, section 6 follows
[11:07] Patroklus Murakami: 6. CDS will open a funded local sim event programming panel, on the same terms to be used for other CDS communities, for the AA estate. CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no theme, feasibility or appropriateness issues with the cultural and event programming activities presently conducted on ther AA sims.
[11:07] Ranma Tardis: I feel like I am at a CDS meeting, am I the only AA citizen left?
[11:07] Jamie Palisades: amen: Gwyneth Llewelyn: .. lt’s really just a question to transfer trust. .. will CDS every trust anyone other than the original folks who kicked out the last owners?
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: Ranma, look over my head.
[11:07] Jamie Palisades: This is a CDS meeting/ CDS including AA — until some of you undo that.
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very funny, Jamie
[11:08] Ranma Tardis: two
[11:08] Jamie Palisades: Gwynnie, i am conpletely serious
[11:08] Solomon Mosely: actaually, a new np doesnt have to be formed, did you already cover that?
[11:08] Ranma Tardis: but you are a member of the cds too
[11:08] Jamie Palisades: i gave up power happily – that’s how democraices work – maybe not social democracies?
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The you work under a delusion, and I’m afraid nothing in my power can change that
[11:08] Patroklus Murakami: yes solomon thanks
[11:08] Keila Forager: Seems to me you are all discussing an issue that was already voted on and approved. Shouldn’t the issue be “yes” we can do or “no ” we won’t?
[11:08] Arria Perreault: I think we should decide that AA is only a geographical term …
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: yes sol
[11:08] Kaseido Quandry: thank you Keila!
[11:08] Arria Perreault: we all are CDS citizen
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: i assume no problems with section 6?
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: this has happened, hasn’t it?
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think so. I thought this is pretty much what the regional committees are for
[11:09] Ranma Tardis: well speaking as a AA citizen and only a AA citizen, I am against the continuation of the merger. No amount of talk will change my mind
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree AP. I wish we could all see ourselves as one group. Indeed many in AA were/are CDS.
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll post s.7
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: 7. This offer will remain open for 60 days from the date this resolution is adopted. AA may accept by its current EO so stating in writing, so long as:
(a) he/she confirms that a specific map of the combined CDS-AA sim territories, which has been approved by the RA, also is acceptable to AA; and
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, 7 is ok, Pat
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s “past tense”
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: (b) The CDS government and AA EO are satisfied, at the time of acceptance, that] a substantial number of AA residents have not indicated the intent to leave AA at the time of combination.
CDS and AA will submit a territory sim join request to Linden Lab, when and if that acceptance is received and those conditions are met] within the allotted time. [CDS will pay the applicable sim location transfer fees.
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all of it happened
[11:10] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: s.8
[11:10] Ranma Tardis: I say to dual members enjoy being in the CDS without those who refuse to have anything to do with them
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we can go to 8
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: The so-called ‘wasp’ clause
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: or Pat clause
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally don’t think that 8 is really a “problem”
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie
[11:11] Arria Perreault: We know the problem of this point: AA community can decide on both site
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: Yes?
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: well, let’s personalise issues
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: why not?
[11:11] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we can do this merger. And I see AA people runing for RA. So they are becoming part of CDS institutions.
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: Arria, i thikn it is an option for either side, not just AA
[11:12] Arria Perreault: they can decide as AA community but they have a representation in the RA. And the RA need a 2/3 vote
[11:12] Jamie Palisades: and I thikn this meeting is about whetehr CDS should pul the trigger and kill it
[11:12] Arria Perreault: it’s just inequal
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Obviously a year with only two elections may not be a lot of time for both to merge totally, legally and culturally.
[11:12] Patroklus Murakami: no, not kill jamie. just go for something different. more equal
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: true arria, it is
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AA has a slight advantage, as they can elect 2/3 of the CDS RA seats, and make sure that their option (either pro or against the merger) is enforced
[11:12] Jamie Palisades: genuiely intriguing, pat – like what? convert to franchulate?
[11:12] Patroklus Murakami: this is the ‘unequal treaty’ part
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, alas, I personally don’t see a problem.
[11:13] Solomon Mosely: well, cant the dual cds/aa citizens do the same thing in aa discussions, arria?
[11:13] Ranma Tardis: I have issues with the CDS but perhaps I am just too “American”, something I heard enough to get sick
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: It is a contrct that should not be broken easily.
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: no jamie. just live next to each other and be friendly
[11:13] Jamie Palisades: i have some RL travel issues that will pull me away – but i’d love to see more expansion of Pat’s idea that there are some other options
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t see the 2/3rds rule as unreasonable
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: but run our affairs separately
[11:13] Ranma Tardis: yes Pat that is agreable
[11:13] Patroklus Murakami: maybe help each other out with evetns and even funding
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: This is what we always did before
[11:13] Solomon Mosely: is this because the new pat, does breaking the merger go with your RA size ammendment?
[11:13] Arria Perreault: the RA is an Assembly of all
[11:13] Keila Forager: or since individuals are running for office, they might not get any representatives
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Pat, I think that is my fallback position
[11:14] Arria Perreault: it doesnt represent the CDS original sims community
[11:14] Patroklus Murakami: a ‘confederation’ of equals rather than a loveless marriage
[11:14] Solomon Mosely: pat, does breaking the merger go with your RA size ammendment?
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like to see the meger tried.
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: lol pat
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Tor, I think that the whole merger agreement was based on the goodwill assumption that it WOULD go through, and that’s why it is, in essence, biased towards making it more easy to go ahead than to break it. As said, I have no personal problems with that.
[11:14] Solomon Mosely: the ra gets too big for a small group to influence?
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: tor, I think we have been trying it
[11:14] Arria Perreault: Tor, we tried for almost one year
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, there’s one realproblem with that – the agreement doesn’t hold CDS to respect any of its terms *after* the merger
[11:14] Ranma Tardis: actually, if the cds takes full control of AA a lot of us would simply leave
[11:14] Solomon Mosely: i dont think so mike
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, the trial period is “now” After July, there is no possibility to “go back”
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn’s right
[11:15] Solomon Mosely: sure, its a democracy, anything can get voted on in the future, if pepoel want
[11:15] Arria Perreault: since last summer, Tor
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good point, Kas.
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: after July, thhhhhCDS can do anything
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Understood.
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: Arria, did we try? Did we fail? Did Stui and all those people on RA fail to make it a joint government this last year? WHY are you calling it a fail?
[11:15] Ranma Tardis: not true agrements are not gospil
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: (sorry, keyboard driver problems)
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: After July, there is no more separation of CDS or AA… except for ownership of the AA sims
[11:15] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve supported teh merger throughout, even argued for it at the last town hall. but it’s become clear to me it isn’t working
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I feel tho we much of this is an effort toward giving up on the merger.
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: not true,
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: they can de merge
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: it’s not just merger or bust. we can have a different relationship
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: as a democracy, which wont be destroyed by aa people
[11:16] Solomon Mosely: we can vote to make any changes
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: why can’t we explore the options?
[11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ranma’s point is a valid one, though: the “common government” will have access to all sims, all themes, and can change all clauses of the current agreement except one. Is that something that bothers AA citizens?
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: Kas, I see mo problem there — it IS in fact time for AA t risk being utterly controlled by CDS or not — depending I guess on how fair & receptive they think CDS is, smile
[11:16] Arria Perreault: We got blocking for the project Sacromonte, which was not normal, because the idea was to act as one community
[11:16] Patroklus Murakami: why does it ahve to be black and white?
[11:16] Ranma Tardis: I have no desire to destroy the CDS “democracy”
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: *no problem
[11:17] Arria Perreault: then we got so many critics, while we have made many efforts
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I think when the merger is finally dead we can look at optons.
[11:17] Arria Perreault: look all what was done in communication
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: but we should work to make the agreement work.
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: Sorry? More criqtiuse than is usual in CDS government?
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Won’t that be too late, Tor? “If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.”
[11:17] Arria Perreault: take the example of communication
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: we have some time
[11:17] Keila Forager: You got blocked because Rose was already in negotiations to rent it out, I remember reading that
[11:18] Solomon Mosely: but aa will be continue being a part of cds and the government, nothing has to happen to them without their support
[11:18] Ranma Tardis: try looking at ways to change their minds, I am only speaking out for the others that will not
[11:18] Patroklus Murakami wonders if ‘dunabar’s number’ is 80 in virtual worlds and not 150….
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: it seems this boils down to trust
[11:18] Arria Perreault: I think we have more progresses than in several past terms
[11:18] Ranma Tardis: yes Tor you are so correct
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS does not trust AA to change the dem. system and AA worries that CDS will destroy its mission
[11:18] Arria Perreault: now we have improved the portal, open a Twitter, a Facce
[11:18] Pip Torok makes a mental note to research Dunbar’s number
[11:18] Arria Perreault: a Facebook page
[11:18] Ranma Tardis: yes
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s quite interesting, Pip )
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: Arria, before AA, “the good old Alpine” CDS tried to oust about 1 elected official per year. How is this more contentious?
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we need to see that niether side has to feer the other.
[11:19] Arria Perreault: and we got critics for a silly notice that was not sent on time …
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do more AA residents share Ranma’s opinion?
[11:19] Solomon Mosely: who is on the commission to create cash flow solutions for cds and aa?
[11:19] Solomon Mosely: who is on the pio team to coordinate events?
[11:19] Keila Forager: and the portal is still as difficult to navigate as before
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: Solomon = starts with chancellor – HAS TO!
[11:19] Ranma Tardis: Neaultenberg was about a syatem of checks and balances, the RA destroyed them
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami: if the merger is made permanent, we should all try to make it work
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: let’s ask Sonja
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we did this only with good will and volunteering
[11:20] Patroklus Murakami: but i don’t think it will be pretty, or much fun
[11:20] Sonja Strom: Solomon, are you volunteering to help with them?
[11:20] Sonja Strom: Jamie, are you?
[11:20] Jamie Palisades sort of makes a ocnfused look
[11:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Generally wwhere there is criticism there is room to improve and such institutions will improve to avoid repetition – is it different here ?
[11:20] Jamie Palisades: SO\onja I put in dozens of hours a week for 18 months
[11:20] Sonja Strom: If anybody here will help, please IM me and we can work on it.
[11:20] Pip Torok: Ranma, if the checks and balances allowed one-sided trashing, then I truly wonder about that
[11:20] Jamie Palisades: what do you wish, at the moment?
[11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Stui!
[11:20] Arria Perreault: Jamie, I know that every CDS goverment got critics, but poeple are considering people like me as rascal, do you think it’s still rationnal?
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: and what if we disagree stui, on what improvement means?
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha Pat
[11:21] Arria Perreault: when*
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where there is cause for criticism by the people
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that is where we must act
[11:21] Jamie Palisades: :/ i don;t think you are a rascal, i thikn you are an artist who has kindly agreed to preside over this squabbling bunch
[11:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to avoid this state of play
[11:21] Patroklus Murakami: i prefer ‘patsy’ if we’re using drag names
[11:21] Jamie Palisades: and you have my strong sympathy
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or compassion
[11:22] Arria Perreault: do you think I chair the RA as an artist?
[11:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where AP and others can get upset over consistent reminders of the short comings of the system
[11:22] Jamie Palisades: Ha ha not a bad idea – i tried doing it as a mediator and liontamer
[11:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok Patty
[11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, guys, guys… sorry but we should continue to focus on the issue… we have more Town hall meetings to discuss other issues
[11:22] Jamie Palisades: maybe artist will work better
[11:22] Mikelo Serevi: I’m grateful for Arria’s efforts myself
[11:22] Jamie Palisades: Hear, hear Mikelo
[11:22] Pip Torok: me too Mikelo
[11:23] Arria Perreault: I have trie to find bridges to the AA community
[11:23] Arria Perreault: realy
[11:23] Patroklus Murakami: sorry, didn’t notice we has strayed!
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Good AP. I think we all need to do that for each of us.
[11:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the truth is that there is an element of conservatism in the system just for the sake of it
[11:23] Jamie Palisades: :/ but you have RA members from there … that’s like saying “I tried to find bridges to All\pine Meadows people”
[11:23] Patroklus Murakami: if we are thinking about s.8, this is teh one which is now under discussion
[11:23] Keila Forager: and the unwillingness for change
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we did, Pat We’re shifting the focus about the merger agreement to validating what people have been doing (or not)
[11:23] Mikelo Serevi: chaos is not good for stability, stui
[11:24] Arria Perreault: I wished AA poeple had considered my real efforts instead to stay their ideological view of CDS
[11:24] Patroklus Murakami: and will be determined partly by the outcome of the next elections
[11:24] Jamie Palisades: Not sure we need bridges — prettt such the govt and EOs need to talk more, and that the RA needs to act on form of government
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then there is a debate about the improvement of the system Mikelo
[11:24] Arria Perreault: as LRA, I have open the RA agenda to any citizen
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well improvements are qualified by the citizens
[11:24] Pip Torok: well THIS AA person does, Arria
[11:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: where criticism is voiced
[11:25] Solomon Mosely: the relevance of this shift in focus gwen,
[11:25] Jamie Palisades: i case there is a doubt, let me say again, like i did on the forums last wek — i think Arria has acted fairly, carefully and (amazingly) politely, from what I know of the last 4 months
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the government must work to iron the crease
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Stui. Then the question is: in what way is the “improvement of the system” a condition for the merger to go ahead successfully?
[11:25] Solomon Mosely: is to show the efforts to make this owrk have been minimal
[11:25] Patroklus Murakami: i think there has been an aggressive attempt to attack the CDS institutions and use AA as a battering ram for change
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, of course, what is to be done in terms of mmmh “improvements”?
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean concrete examples.
[11:25] Jamie Palisades: it;s not the RA’s job to start work on getting the nonprofit corp thing solved — or the rent boxex
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty then if that is your view
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think so Pat.
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a few, ironically from Michel Manen: direct Chancellor election
[11:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you are as much part of the problem as the solution
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, that may be pat
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami: darling, so are you
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as you percieve the battering ram
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Seems CDS is overly worried about an Ulrika.
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, you’re actually quite right
[11:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: so it is there
[11:26] Jamie Palisades: given me much to think on – we started a good experiment – i wonder if we can keep it? travel pulls me away, regards to all
[11:26] Mikelo Serevi: bye jamie
[11:26] Patroklus Murakami: bye jamie
[11:26] Ranma Tardis: Tor stop slandering my friend Ulrika!
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Jamie, thanks for coming!
[11:26] Sonja Strom: bye Jamie
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: so it is too sensitive about loosing democracy to a tyrant.
[11:26] Arria Perreault: bye Jamie
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:27] Patroklus Murakami: i think it would be nice sometimes if ppl who want to change the CDS would recognise that, in so many ways, it actually works?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I agree, Tor, and I personally admit that I worry about that, but can understand that others don’t.
[11:27] Mikelo Serevi: Well, tor, perhaps it’s more vigilance than fear
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Pat
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, let’s pick up Stui’s thread…
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What “improvements” have to be made?
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I think CDS is amazing.
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean on the “system”.
[11:27] Arria Perreault: the best we can do now would be a summary of all answers we got on the agreement
[11:28] Patroklus Murakami: rather than aggressively tearing down everything that ppl spent years working to build up

RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript – Part 4
by mikeloserevi » Sun May 02, 2010 12:33 pm
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What has to be concretely and pragmatically done? Not just “vague” things please.
[11:28] Pip Torok: pat, some ppl are never going to get “if it ain’t broke ….”
[11:28] Arria Perreault: so people don’t have to read all the meeting’s transcript
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: And I undersand the need for vigilance.
[11:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well AP mentioned criticism and Patty said about battering rams
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui, let’s turn the criticism into concrete actions! WHat needs to be done?
[11:28] Patroklus Murakami: good idea arria. i will review the answers we got and try to post tomething
[11:28] Solomon Mosely: pat!
[11:28] Solomon Mosely: good point
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but I don’t think the institutions are in danger.
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: why cant you see that the eveolution of the cds, which you hold so dear, has been done by people who were trying to improve it
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: not tear it down
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: why is this different
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn hates to insist in the same point…
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that perhaps there is a culture in the sims to see criticism as a purely negative thing
[11:29] Ranma Tardis: before I go, the coup destroyed the Neualtenberg Projekt and before my friend Kendra passed away she was blamed as well. Insulting them is an insult to me
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but there can be constructive criticism
[11:29] Patroklus Murakami: of course sol. i’ve helped to make those reforms
[11:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which is rather more an observation
[11:29] Kaseido Quandry: outstanding, Solomon!
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: /why?
[11:29] Solomon Mosely: did you hate the cds?
[11:29] Mikelo Serevi: I hadn’t realized anyone would be forced to change, sol
[11:30] Solomon Mosely: did you hate the democracy as it was?
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: but i don’t see ppl putting forward postive proposals
[11:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and a rallying point for making bad good, good better and better best
[11:30] Ranma Tardis: I am all that is left of Port Neualtenberg
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But what changes?
[11:30] Kaseido Quandry raises her hand for Pat there
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are “good” changes? Let’s hear examples!
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: all i see is incoherent criticism
[11:30] Solomon Mosely: i see, its their fault for not putting ideas that suited you
[11:30] Pip Torok: sol , we conclude that when we see that those ppl are tearing-down PEOPLE ….
[11:30] Patroklus Murakami: where si teh legislation? where are the ideas?
[11:30] Kaseido Quandry: Constructive reform of campaign law, tyvm
[11:30] Mikelo Serevi: let’s not get talking about ‘progress’
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s a good point, Kas!
[11:30] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well there was a lot of criticism about the agenda of the RA meetings
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree gwyn, I don’t see where AA is going to ruin CDS institutions.
[11:30] Ranma Tardis: I see no reason to remain here and be insulted. I am against the merger
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: about the location of the citizens in process
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Was that addressed successfully, Kas? What can be improved?
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact AA came to CDS FOR its institutions.
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear Tor
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we addressed that
[11:31] Solomon Mosely: how about commssions to work on the issues that people find the biggest barriers to a merger?
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami: yes kas, ty you had a point and backed it up with a proposal. that i can work with
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: I’m against it too, ranma
[11:31] Ranma Tardis: I tried to see eye to eye
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Solomon!
[11:31] Solomon Mosely: like finance, and the rumor of the AA drain on cds?
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another good idea!
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but without the original complaint
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, Pat and I met and made excellent progress toward a solid proposal
[11:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there’d be no progress on that
[11:31] Arria Perreault: if it right, Tor, AA people should trust them
[11:31] Ranma Tardis: certain people are offensive and insulting
[11:31] Solomon Mosely: how about a commission to explore other ways of producing income there that do meet with ss apporval
[11:31] Arria Perreault: these institutions works for many years and each term improve them
[11:31] Kaseido Quandry: which I think shows the real strengh of CDS at its best
[11:32] Solomon Mosely: instead of suggesting things that will of course be offensive to its residents?
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So now we have two concrete actions. 1. Work on the campaigning issues. 2. Get the Finance Commission to report on AA finances 3. Get the Trader’s commission operational
[11:32] Pip Torok: Ranma …. if Ulrika didnt do those things, then why not say so and let the past remain in the past?
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, three
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: And complaints about RA….. Where do any of us live where we don’t complain aboug Congrss, parilament or town hall?
[11:32] Solomon Mosely: as if by offering them rotten fruit, you have tried your best
[11:32] Ranma Tardis: like Kendra I think that money is the goal of certain people here not the process
[11:32] Arria Perreault: Tor, wait to sit in the RA
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have three concrete actions!
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we list more?
[11:33] Pip Torok: the evidence, Ranma … let’s have the evidence
[11:33] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah Ranma, rightly or wrongly she part of CDS lore and a symbol of tyrrany.
[11:33] Arria Perreault: you work hard and kindly and you got not even critics, but insults
[11:33] Ranma Tardis: you keep insulting my friend
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: we should summarise the discussion of the merger agreement
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: where are we on the nonprofit? I didn’t hear anything clear there –
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: i’ll try to identify main themes
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: and feel free to add
[11:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I believe that perhaps for a while people have used the partner sim group as a convenient scapegoat for the source of what we perhaps didn’t want to hear
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: non-profit was the big question
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Kas question too
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: lots of questions we ahve not yet resolved
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye …
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: about who can be on it, which jurisdiciton to use
[11:34] Arria Perreault: I will read again what was said about non-profit org. I think it’s one of the main issue
[11:34] Ranma Tardis: agree with you friend Pat
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: safeguards agains abuse/ selling off sims
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can use “any” nonprofit, or if you need a new one
[11:34] Arria Perreault: especially because the consequences on our rl lifes
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: interaction with CDS govnt
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: agreement (generally) that we don’t have to resolve all of this now
[11:34] Pip Torok: Ranma … you have not denied what jonty Peel told me, how can I be insulting Ulrika?
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: interaction with the citizens (in the sense of publishing internal NP decisions for all citizens to read)
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: but we do need to resolve it
[11:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we can use the existing NP just put CDS people on it
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: ppl pls. let’s try to stay on topic for the sake of ppl reading this
[11:35] Solomon Mosely: we just have the chancellor sign on as np exec
[11:35] Ranma Tardis: you blame her for all of the problems that lead to the breakup of the Neualtenberg Projekt
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: another big issue is communications
[11:35] Solomon Mosely: and form the four memeber body for the board
[11:35] Solomon Mosely: its done
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, that is a very good question, and one asked before — but that is a question that we have to ask if it’s acceptable and within the spirit of the agreement, so that nobody gets accused of distorting its meaning
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would say “yes”
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: the merger agreement said what had to be ‘transferred’ but was not so clear on how ppl should work with each other and talk to each other
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok G. I think that woudl be acceptable to AA.
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: it’s clear that some key ppl need to talk to each other more
[11:36] Solomon Mosely: if you need a summary now, its that we keep the merger and make more concrete steps to engage in activities to find solutions and exagerate the problems
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Pat But apparently today we established that it would take more than just a phone call Which is progress…
[11:36] Imotali Antiesse: sorry whats np?
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS jsut has to name the board members.
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: or RA does
[11:36] Mikelo Serevi: non profit
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, could that be officially published?
[11:36] Patroklus Murakami: most other aspects of the merger agreement were fine and have been implemented
[11:37] Imotali Antiesse: k
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, we’d have at least ONE thing settled.
[11:37] Solomon Mosely: non profit
[11:37] Patroklus Murakami: is that a fair summary of our discussion?
[11:37] Ranma Tardis: yes that is part of the problem, the cds ditating who owns AA
[11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure it could. I understood that was Jaime’s first idea.
[11:37] Pip Torok: I think yes
[11:37] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Pat’s summary
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn also agrees with Pat’s summary
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Tor)
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (but the citiznes need to know if Jamie’s idea represents what EVERYBODY — including current VDI members! — is thinking=
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: no ranma
[11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I understant Gwyn.
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: the people all elect the ra which can have all the aa members it wants
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: and then they decide on the chancellor, who leads the np
[11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I will work on getting that out.
[11:38] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, a clarification from the VDI board and both parties to the merger agreement – the then-Chancellor and AAEO – would be a very good thing
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Tor!
[11:38] Solomon Mosely: sry pat, could you restate yor summary?
[11:38] Ranma Tardis: I support Rose
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d personally be more than happy with that, Kas
[11:39] Arria Perreault: did we get an answer about non UScitizen as member/board of VDI?
[11:39] Pip Torok: Ranma, broken records bore and exasperate after multiple repetitions ….
[11:39] Delia Lake is trying to keep up with the conversation but is on a rl 5 hr! business conference call at the same time
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a legal answer, Arria
[11:39] Sonja Strom: lol Delia
[11:39] Ranma Tardis: you are insulting Tor
[11:39] Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid not sol. i’ll try to take them out to make a summary when this goes on the forums
[11:39] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, I can do some research, and post on the forums, or you could just ask Rose, who’s current with that law and set of regs
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: darn RL
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Delia
[11:39] Arria Perreault: so it’s an issue
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it is.
[11:39] Kaseido Quandry: no, it’s a question.
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I need to get some things done today too
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hehe
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it’s a question
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: delia, you have my sympathies
[11:40] Arria Perreault: who can give the answer, then?
[11:40] Arria Perreault: yes, Delia
[11:40] Delia Lake: i can say though that we have on a number of occasions, as VDI talked about adding CDS officials to the nonprofit
[11:40] Kaseido Quandry: ffs, Arria, I’ve answered that 3 times
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The answer can be “no way”, “yes, under special circunstances” (and we’d need to know which ones) and “yes without a problem”
[11:40] Kaseido Quandry: I can do some research or you can ask Rose, who would readily know
[11:40] Arria Perreault: before you leave, can you send me the list odf approved citizen?
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: does this feel like a suitable point to end? or start drawing to a close?
[11:40] Arria Perreault: I will publish it on the portal
[11:40] Patroklus Murakami: ty arria. that would be very helpful
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: i assume the SC now has an approved list?
[11:41] Solomon Mosely: so was the summary that no ne is going to call for a vote to demerge?
[11:41] Arria Perreault: tx, Kas
[11:41] Ranma Tardis: did not want to be the angry chick but Tor you have crossed the line
[11:41] Delia Lake: i don’t know about US citizenship or anonymity though
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: sol, the CSDF candidates are standing in favour of demerging
[11:41] Delia Lake: yes. the SC has the citizens list.
[11:41] Solomon Mosely: still?
[11:41] Patroklus Murakami: others may do so too
[11:42] Arria Perreault: I am ready to publish on the portal
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh apparently in Nevada there is no problem: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Nonprofit-La … profit.htm (don’t you love Google?)
[11:42] Arria Perreault: it’s usefull for the canditates
[11:42] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, under most state law it’s fine -the question is more about the IRS regs
[11:42] Arria Perreault: VDI is in Texas
[11:42] Solomon Mosely: could you stand for making progress towards making the merger successful, instead?
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same in Kansas: http://www.mainstreaminc.net/knpa/questions.html#FC
[11:43] Kaseido Quandry: “nonprofit corporation” and “IRS nonprofit status” are two different beasts
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, true, Kas
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: well, that *is* what i’m standing for sol
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good point!
[11:43] Ranma Tardis: I appoligise to all but one and did not intend to get angry but this is a meeting of CDS people minus one.
[11:43] Solomon Mosely: yes, and no new non profit has to be formed
[11:43] Solomon Mosely: no, thats not the same thing at all
[11:43] Kaseido Quandry: afaik, there’s no citizenship problem per state corporate law
[11:43] Patroklus Murakami: abandon our marriage but live next door and have fun together
[11:43] Ranma Tardis: You have to convience the AA people, not just yourselves
[11:43] Arria Perreault: Sol, where do you intend to build your rl non-profit?
[11:44] Kaseido Quandry: and I doubt there is in the regs, but I’m not going to give an uniformed opinion
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: if you get your way about the merger, will you still push for the RA size change pat?
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: i dont arria
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: after talking with rose more,
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think the merger works as currently drafted and i haven’t seen a reason to change my opinion
[11:44] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: i have learned that a new NP isnt needed
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: sol, the RA size thing is a separate question
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: then pat
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: as a democracy, we can change things
[11:44] Solomon Mosely: i dont think so
[11:44] Patroklus Murakami: up to the RA to pass it or not (it needs 2/3)
[11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the letter of the agreement says otherwise, but if everybody is happy with the interpretation that drops the REQUIREMENT of having a new NP, that’s ok
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: precisely, Gwyn
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: not sure it’s something i would push to the top of the RA agenda right now though!
[11:45] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think that is a problem
[11:45] Patroklus Murakami: we have other things to discuss!
[11:45] Solomon Mosely: yes, like how to make more money for all the reserves and events without raising rents
[11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: )
[11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Sol for president
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry makes some rockin’ digital muffins….
[11:46] Ranma Tardis: but this was a meeting for AA citizens to discuss merger, not strictly CDS things
[11:46] Arria Perreault: I don’t think I will ever feel confortable with this rl org, wherever it is
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good idea, Sol, you could run for Chancellor
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: sol, if you want to sort that out i suggest you don’t try the RA
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: indeed, run for chancellor instead!
[11:46] Sonja Strom: Yes, Solomon
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither will I, Arria, but, alas… I see a slight difference today
[11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: A chicken in every pot!
[11:46] Sonja Strom: I will help you…
[11:46] Patroklus Murakami: the RA is for laws and planning
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: awww, thanks guys
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: so sweet of you to say
[11:47] Arria Perreault: I see also the potential issue we could have with LL
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: but no, i think rose would be a much better qualified person than i
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sol — depends on what you wish to do, discuss legislations or plan events, raise funds, administer things…
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: well, shes done all of that
[11:47] Solomon Mosely: perfect
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria: yes On the other hand, if VDI keeps the AA sims, they will keep the discount… while transferring to a different NP is really a question of “luck” these days.
[11:48] Sonja Strom: anybody who becomes Chancellor, I will help them.
[11:48] Solomon Mosely: so sonja, ra, who will move for a land managemnt committee to coordinate the rental and land marketing issues?
[11:48] Arria Perreault: we have several sims owned by a non-profit to be rented cheaper and these sims send their money to CDS which is not non-profit. It’s a bit like CDS is abusing LL terms of services to make some profits. CDS could have an issue with LL.
[11:49] Solomon Mosely: to keep “the tub” more full, more often?
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria: not if there are different EOs!
[11:49] Kaseido Quandry: yes, there’s no issue there
[11:49] Arria Perreault: we have a transfer of money
[11:49] Kaseido Quandry: “CDS” doesn’t have any meaningful existence for LL’s purposes
[11:49] Arria Perreault: the money from AA is transferred to CDS
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was going to type what Kas just said
[11:50] Arria Perreault: maybe not CDS, but the owner of CDS has
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re right as well, Arria
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a time-bomb really.
[11:50] Arria Perreault: I think so
[11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: That we need to talk about.
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One day we have to seriously consider the issue. LL has been way less tolerant
[11:50] Solomon Mosely: no one, ok
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… I’ve requested repeatedly for them to *publish* their documentation
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they didn’t.
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which in LL parlance means: “we really don’t want to be forced to enforce that, except on some cases”
[11:51] Tor Karlsvalt: wouldn’t LL have to accept a NP if the IRS does?
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know all how LL likes to make, mmmh, “special allowances”
[11:51] Kaseido Quandry: yes, LL’s capriciousness is clear- and a good argument against keeping reserves in an avatar account
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Tor
[11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “discount” is not something that is a legal requirement in the US
[11:51] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, nope, LL can and has made random deicsions
[11:51] Delia Lake: i’m coming away from this meeting a bit concerned about the CDS state re LL. i hadn’t thought so much about that before
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: But how can LL make a determination about NP when the IRS determines one exists.
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait Tor… there are 2 things here.
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is recognising the nonprofit status
[11:52] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, LL, like any business, can give a discount on whatever terms it wants
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL cannot avoid doing that.
[11:52] Patroklus Murakami: tor, they can decide we’re not the ‘right’ sort of non-profit
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is what Kas is saying.
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: ah
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: i see
[11:52] Patroklus Murakami: i.e. a rental outfit rather than an educational project
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because you have a nonprofit, LL is not “required” to give it a discount.
[11:52] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: ok thanks
[11:53] Ranma Tardis: I have to go, just crashed
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Ranma
[11:53] Patroklus Murakami: bye ranma take care
[11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, planning ahead for a time where the discount is gone, is a serious and sound policy, and I totally agree with the notion of having reserves for that event.
[11:53] Mikelo Serevi: ok, bye ranma
[11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Ranma!
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: tc
[11:53] Delia Lake: bye Ranma
[11:53] Ranma Tardis: there is a bike and lots of sunshine
[11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for coming
[11:53] Imotali Antiesse: bye Ranma
[11:54] Arria Perreault: bye Ramna
[11:54] Lilith Ivory: bye Ranma
[11:54] Ranma Tardis: oh remember taxes, does the CDS pay its taxes? It is located within he USA
[11:54] Ranma Tardis: bye bye
[11:54] Patroklus Murakami: btw, before we go, could anyone who is one of Michel Manen’s alts pls let themselves be known?
[11:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:54] Kaseido Quandry: lol
[11:55] Patroklus Murakami: there has to be at least one!
[11:55] Solomon Mosely: yes, i’d like to vote for him
[11:55] Delia Lake: lol Pat, that’s not you?
[11:55] Pip Torok: lol …
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sol
[11:55] Solomon Mosely:
[11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: seems I met all the people here in CDS.
[11:55] Patroklus Murakami: you may get the chance sol, but without knowing it! LOL
[11:55] Solomon Mosely: its rose
[11:55] Pip Torok: like me, sol!
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, you should run for Chancellor too
[11:55] Patroklus Murakami: sorry folks, naughty i iknow but i couldn’t resist
[11:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m MM
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn is quite sure that Rose is not Michel
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah Stui, you have a far better fashion style
[11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Gwyn, I am really new compared to all of you.
[11:56] Delia Lake: oh wait, maybe i’m michel’s alt, or maybe it’s you Gwyn
[11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: still learnign about sim management and such.
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could be, Delia!
[11:56] Arria Perreault: well, Gwyn, look at his crown
[11:56] Pip Torok: (were sounding lik that scene from Spartacus!….
[11:56] Solomon Mosely: i know, you guys met last year, didnt you?
[11:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s definitely Tor
[11:56] Imotali Antiesse: mm a girl now
[11:57] Patroklus Murakami: stui, you have much better taste in clothes
[11:57] Patroklus Murakami: then again…
[11:57] Solomon Mosely: lol
[11:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am teaching Tor how to dress
[11:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: this week topless in jeans
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, now seriously… don’t let “newness” be a factor in NOT running for Chancellor!!
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui shoudl be careful. Crowned heads sometimes get lost.
[11:57] Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid i must get going. are we at an end now in any case?
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui
[11:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: next week sparkly hotpants
[11:57] Solomon Mosely: there’s a revenue stream,
[11:57] Solomon Mosely: tickets to a topless ra
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[11:57] Mikelo Serevi: I think we’ve finished
[11:58] Arria Perreault: yes, but the entrance will not be free
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *did* have a Cabaret once… we could revive that again!
[11:58] Patroklus Murakami: ‘topless ra’, okay, i’m game
[11:58] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Solomon!
[11:58] Mikelo Serevi: I did get a new skin
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or turn the RA into a Cabaret…
[11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, that will spike intereset in RA.
[11:58] Delia Lake: wait a minute, don’t all run for chancellor. we have to elect the RA first and need enough candidates to hold the election
[11:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Topless Tor the Titty Terror
[11:58] Kaseido Quandry: vote for me! I’ve got a *great* rack! :p
[11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops yes, good point Delia — did we get the 13 candidates at least??
[11:58] Patroklus Murakami: 15
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh that’s excellent!!!!
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: great news
[11:59] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:59] Patroklus Murakami: it is, shame there weren’t more though
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well yes
[11:59] Sonja Strom: Now I am trying to organise Candidate Debates.
[11:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor may share a bench with me
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we say that every term, Pat
[11:59] Arria Perreault: 15 on 131, not bad
[11:59] Delia Lake: we have 15 candidates, posted on the forum
[11:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you just make sure he keeps his hands to himself
[11:59] Solomon Mosely: still, its better than having to force people to run, against their will
[11:59] Patroklus Murakami: better than just one !
[11:59] Arria Perreault: more than 10%
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok I haven’t read that yet, Delia — thanks
[11:59] Patroklus Murakami: like last time!
[12:00] Arria Perreault: Delia, I ask again for the list of citizen ….
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami is turning off the recorder soon
[12:00] Sonja Strom: Please look at this post about having a debate: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2833
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in officially closing the Town Hall meeting
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami: pls click it to indicate consent to being recorded
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with being recorded
[12:00] Arria Perreault: we really don’t know now who is and who is not citizen
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami: the transcript will be posted on teh forums
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: this has been a good meeting.
[12:00] Solomon Mosely: and i think as aa gets more comfortable with the process, they will come out in greater numbers to run
[12:00] Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 15 May 2011

Transcript RA Meeting May 15
by Lilith Ivory » Sun May 15, 2011 2:55 pm
[12:01] Mikelo Serevi: Gwyn!
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: YAY here come Gwyn
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: welcome
[12:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Gwyn!
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello! and thank you
[12:02] Rosie Gray: hi Gwyn
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: brb I need some coffee
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe already???
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[12:03] Rosie Gray: hello Pip
[12:03] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: I need some…
[12:03] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hey! Pip
[12:03] Pip Torok: hello Rosie
[12:03] Pip Torok: hi gwyn
[12:03] Pip Torok: hi Lilith
[12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiya!
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: back
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: HI Pip
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi: hi Pip
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: I should have brought coffee and some harder stuff
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi Milelo
[12:04] Pip Torok: hi Guillaume
[12:04] Mikelo Serevi: I got decaf
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh ‘harder stuff’…..
[12:04] Soro Dagostino: brb — all the tak of coffee — got me!
[12:05] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: I wonder if Fern makes another atempt to come?
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: looks like
[12:05] Rosie Gray: I think she’s coming
[12:05] Rosie Gray: ah…
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: Hi Fern
[12:06] Rosie Gray: hello Fern
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had to download a new version l….
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Sorry to be late
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Hi Lilith
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: np, hi Fern
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: yikes I´m still on the very old one
[12:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Fern ㋡
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Hi Mikelo
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: let´s get started with citizens concerns
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Hi Rosie. np. Just updated on the forum
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: aganda and some other useful notecards are in the box
[12:07] Rosie Gray nods and smiles
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn goes and reads
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh…, IF I get a notecard
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: want me to pass them to you?
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah—- all working now, sorryy
[12:07] Pip Torok: its among the pile in the box gwyn!
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no no… thanks….
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh yes Pip!
[12:08] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: any citizen concerns?
[12:08] Rosie Gray looks around
[12:08] Rosie Gray: not from me
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: any additions or changes to the agenda?
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: ok let´s start with talking about the referendum then
[12:10] Pip Torok: can I kick off Mme LRA?
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: I´m not quite sure if we are able to make it this elections but we could decide and have it next time
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: sure
[12:11] Pip Torok: ok … imo the faction as an entity has now had a shif of role
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: a what?
[12:12] Pip Torok: at one time it was a body of thought tha( one of a number) and the voter was OBLIGED to pick the body of thought not a person …
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a role shift±!
[12:13] Guillaume Mistwalker nods to Pip
[12:13] Pip Torok: now … the faction is a loose-ish conglomeration of ppl who think much the same way … and so TO A CERTAIN EXTENT ONLY … the voter knows where the candidate is coming from
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is one thing that hasn’t changed since factions have been introduced… the notion that people ought to vote for ideas and not for individuals, who, like yours truly, might be so busy that they skip RA session after session…
[12:14] Lilith Ivory: the latest forum posts showed it clearly how odd that is!
[12:14] Pip Torok: but NOW … as well as from that general school the candidate is a thinking person who will act individually to any given situation … one not particular covered by the faction …
[12:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Or don’t show for an entire term, Gwyn
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: the words of one faction member can make me stay away from voting for a whole faction
[12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* and shows embarassment
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: or from voting at all
[12:15] Pip Torok: therefor, although i am the “leader” of one faction … this is how i see faction (our incliuded) to be
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: you might know what I mean Gwyn
[12:15] Pip Torok: done
[12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, like iRL
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, iRL citizens don’t really get to pick who sits in a faction, unless they’re faction members… you might vote for the leader, for the team, but mostly, you’re voting on a manifesto
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: well at the moment we don´t discuss about that law but about a referendum
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point! The referendum, however, is to abolish an amendment to a law hehe
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: In RL I have to deal with that as I can´t just leave hehe
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: Ah, good point, Lilith
[12:17] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, Lilith is very right.
[12:17] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I did have some questions about the referendum
[12:17] Lilith Ivory: we won´t be able to decide about that law this term anyway
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m definitely not against the referendum in this case, and agree that it’s important to ask citizens what *they* wish in this case. So, I’m pro-referendum
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: yes Mik?
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: What’s to prevent the referendum from being placed on the next ballot?
[12:18] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Gwyn
[12:18] Pip Torok: i’m pro (eventual) referendum … like Gwyn
[12:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: Indeed, as am I.
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: As am I, it’s a good idea
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: think having a referendum now depends on the SC and John
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: But, I proposed it thinking it would be binding (not a poll), and that it would be done in a timely fashion
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: do you think it´s still possible now Soro?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon hasn’t disappeared completely, he’s reachable, even if he might be often offline
[12:20] Pip Torok: have we put this proposal .. of having a referendum already to the SC??
[12:20] Fern Leissa: I’m not sure if I want it on the next ballot Mikelo. I’d like to see more discussion next term. To some degree I think pp are anti-faction because they do not understand the possible advantages… so more discussion would be good imo
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn looked on the forums and didn’t see an answer to Pip’s question
[12:20] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, point taken
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: no we didn´t yet PIp
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see, Fern
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: that´s what we are about to decide now
[12:20] Pip Torok: which question btw??!!
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My thoughts are just that if we postpone it for another term, there is no reason to believe that people will discuss it publicly, but probably it will go unnoticed until December hehe
[12:21] Pip Torok: i asked whether the proposal for a referendum had been submitted to the SC?
[12:21] Long Range: Delia Lake [59m] [12:21] Mikelo Serevi: I agree with Gwyn on that
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: I´d be all in favour to have one this term
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: if possible
[12:22] Pip Torok: if not, i propose that we the RA formally put the request for a referendum to thwe SC
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: Perhaps a mid-term referendum?
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: A special referendum?
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh that would require a const. change…
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: seems like Delia is coming
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: It gives next term’s RA something to discuss
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, wonderful
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: Hi Delia
[12:22] Pip Torok: hi Delia
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… either we plan to have a series of sessions to publicly discuss the referendum *now*
[12:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello Delia ㋡
[12:22] Delia Lake: Good day everyone
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or well, we postpone for another term…
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Delia!
[12:23] Fern Leissa: Hi Delia
[12:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: What keeps us from having it midterm?
[12:23] Pip Torok: well then i propose setting up a series of discussions to commence at the start mof next term
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: theoretically we could have it any time …
[12:24] Pip Torok: (any second, anyone?)
[12:24] Mikelo Serevi: Or is it because elections are held at specific times?
[12:24] Fern Leissa: Yes… let’s plan to have a series of public session next term. How do we make that happen?
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We set dates!
[12:24] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[12:24] Pip Torok: you second my motion fern!
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suggestion: every other Sunday when the RA is not meeting
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (like the iold Town Hall meetings, remember?
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: )
[12:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: A special commission?
[12:25] Fern Leissa: hehe. Ok I second Pip’s motion
[12:25] Pip Torok: shall i repeat the motion lilith
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: Although I am concerned it will stop being timely
[12:25] Lilith Ivory: do we need more discussion about this or can we vote already?
[12:25] Pip Torok: move to vote
[12:26] Fern Leissa: We need to appoint somebody to hold mtgs for that to really happen. Mikelo?
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: public, transcripted meetings!
[12:26] Guillaume Mistwalker will be right back.
[12:27] Fern Leissa: yes.. agree Lilith
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn takes that as granted, Lilith
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: you mean like a commission?
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: I´d volunteer to chair those
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but… sure…. we can do a friendly amendment to Pip’s proposal to include that
[12:27] Pip Torok: agree Gwyn
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait…. is it a ‘comission’ or just a ‘presentation to citizens to gather feedback and educate them about options’?
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a slight difference!
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: that’s what I was asking
[12:28] Pip Torok: I favour the latter…
[12:28] Fern Leissa: I’d prefer a commission
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too (and right, Mikelo!)
[12:28] Fern Leissa: A commission could collect opinions… then come back to ra with a recommendation
[12:28] Pip Torok: ok i go along with you guys
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… suggestion… let’s vote it separately!
[12:28] Lilith Ivory: I think it as a way to discuss it with citizens and have a referendum after
[12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: I´d prefer as many citizens as possible to vote on it
[12:29] Lilith Ivory: and ya know how many show up at meetings
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not absolutely mandatory that comissions lead to legislation, but… usually, that’s the point of having formal comissions: prepare legislation
[12:30] Pip Torok: exactly, Mme Chair … its in THEIR interests
[12:30] Fern Leissa: hehe. True Lilith
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: there might be better turnout on sundays, as Gwyn suggested
[12:30] Lilith Ivory: I like both : having something like townhall meetings AND a referendum
[12:30] Fern Leissa: So we’re thinking sessions for public discussion… then ref?
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[12:31] Pip Torok: nods
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lilith: aye, I would also want a referendum at the end….
[12:31] Fern Leissa: sounds good to me
[12:31] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: to me too
[12:31] Fern Leissa: As long as somebody is willing to step up and keep the process moving towards referendum
[12:32] Pip Torok: Lilith?
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: uhm can somebody give me the text for what we propose now?
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:32] Lilith Ivory: I´m in favour also
[12:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: back, sorry about that ㋡
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: is anyone neutral about the matter?
[12:32] Fern Leissa: neutral? Sorry Mikelo. Not sure what you are asking
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: I’d be willing, but I have fairly strong views on it
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: I´d really like to have a propper proposal hehe
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: any native speaker?
[12:33] Lilith Ivory: pleeaaaze
[12:34] Fern Leissa: Mikelo?
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: what, for the proposal?
[12:34] Pip Torok: I propose a series of educative meetings on the role of Factions in CDS politics, conclusing with a referendum
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: I wasn’t sure if Pip was reframing it
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: ah
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: YAY!
[12:34] Fern Leissa: ok
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: thanks Pip
[12:34] Mikelo Serevi: ok, and a binding referendum?
[12:34] Pip Torok: that wat i said mik
[12:35] Soro Dagostino raises hand.
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: yes Soro?
[12:35] Soro Dagostino: Can an RA adopted law be overturned with a referendum?
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: good question
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: …to the SC .)
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker will be right back.
[12:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: again
[12:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Let me get my CDS constitution ㋡
[12:36] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:36] Pip Torok: imo this shd be a SC question
[12:36] Lilith Ivory nods
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: IMO it should not be an SC question
[12:37] Pip Torok: i think the Constitution trumps both of us, Mikelo
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the referendums are just ‘advisory to the RA’ but not binding, and in that case, anything can be asked
[12:37] Pip Torok: yes youre rigght gwyn!
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: welcome
[12:37] Sudane Erato: ty
[12:37] Pip Torok: hi Sudane
[12:37] Mikelo Serevi: hi Sudane
[12:37] Sudane Erato: hi
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Sudane
[12:38] Fern Leissa: Hi Sudane
[12:38] Rosie Gray smiles at Sudane
[12:38] Soro Dagostino: I haven’t looked, but I remember we had that issue before.
[12:38] Sudane Erato: hi hi
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: You know, I just realised…
[12:38] Lilith Ivory: but the next RA should decide the way citizens said in the referendum
[12:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: The CDSC doesn’t have a supremacy clause.
[12:38] Pip Torok: itll be in the law about referenda …
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn was searching for that too
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: I couldn’t find any reference to a referendum law
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: but may have missed it
[12:39] Pip Torok: should be there mik … remember it was the law that Sonja put through?
[12:39] Mikelo Serevi: I have a memory like a sieve
[12:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3166&p=16764
[12:41] Pip Torok: if I remember right …. the referendum result was NOT binding on the RA … but i stand to be corrected if need be
[12:41] Delia Lake: hi Sudane
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I found this:
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum Act – Preamble: A Referendum Question can be seen as a set of up to five questions, to be unambiguously answered ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, and posed to all citizens. Each Referendum Question addresses a specific topic, subject, or theme, and is advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens. Thus the RA determines: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot, which shall not be legally binding.”
[12:41] Sudane Erato: hi
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=373
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Sudane
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: [9:48] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. There shall not be more than one referendum per RA term. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Guillaume, that was the early wording.
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then it was rejected,
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a discussion was held on March 15, 2009
[12:42] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes…
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to bring the topic back again
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The text I copied was proposal #6 that got an unanimous vote
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: I see
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless there is later legislation that overrides this…
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: as it would be nice of any RA to respect the will of the citizens that´s better than nothing imop
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, of coruse, Lilith )
[12:44] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *course
[12:44] Pip Torok: welll in practice it wd be a VERY foolish RA that did not …
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: So why not call it a “poll?”
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker whispers: Why not have a ”
[12:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: “poll” for this upcoming election?
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mikelo, you’re right, but if I remember the discussion correctly, referenda are noit always binding even in RL legislatures….
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s why we kept the ‘name’ “referendum”
[12:46] Pip Torok suspects we’re all going round in circles …
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: imo we should just vote on Pips proposal and leave the rest to an upcoming RA:)
[12:46] Pip Torok:
[12:46] Mikelo Serevi: And that was the point…
[12:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Have the commission, where the RA can decide to pursue it and send it to referendum?
[12:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: Actually, I like Lil’s idea ㋡
[12:47] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Complicated, Guillaume, but perhaps it’s the best way to bhandle it
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *handle even
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: imo we wanted to have townhall meetings and a referendum after
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: right?
[12:47] Pip Torok: my motion will at least keep the matter “on the boil”
[12:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Pip, can you repeat your motion?
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: true
[12:48] Pip Torok: brb … looking for it!
[12:48] Mikelo Serevi: although at this rate, it will be the 17th RA who votes on it
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[12:49] Pip Torok: I propose a series of educative meetings on the role of Factions in CDS politics, conclusing with a referendum
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[12:49] Lilith Ivory smiles and nods
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry Pip!)
[12:49] Pip Torok: np g!
[12:49] Fern Leissa gave you CDS Covenant Draft 2011-05-15.
[12:49] Pip Torok: …. a seconder?
[12:50] Fern Leissa: second
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: third…!
[12:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: ㋡
[12:50] Fern Leissa:
[12:50] Fern Leissa: A faction at work lol
[12:50] Pip Torok: all pull together!
[12:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: all in favour for Pips proposal say aye please
[12:51] Pip Torok: aye
[12:51] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: aye!
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: ok good:)
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: now we only have to hold them hehe
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: I´d still volunteer to chair if nobody else wants
[12:52] Mikelo Serevi: I’ll hold them if no one objects
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: oh ok Mik
[12:53] Fern Leissa: That would be great Mikelo
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: but be prepared to see me there
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes on Mikelo as chair (factions at work hehe )
[12:53] Mikelo Serevi: that would make the discussion balanced, so good
[12:53] Fern Leissa:
[12:54] Lilith Ivory: should we all vote for Mikelo chairing?
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you want to be very formal… yes
[12:54] Fern Leissa: Huum. but there’s no commission.. Righ??
[12:55] Fern Leissa: Ok by me though
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: ok than let´s vote just to be correct
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Fern, yes )
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I mean, since it’s not a commission, we don’ºt technically *need* to vote, but voting never hurts lol )
[12:55] Guillaume Mistwalker: I second Mik’s nomination
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine either wya hehe
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: way
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: let´s just vote lol
[12:56] Pip Torok hopes that Mik will be open to all POVs on the subject
[12:56] Mikelo Serevi: absolutely
[12:56] Lilith Ivory: all in favour for Mikelo chairing this meetings say aye please
[12:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if not, complain to the RA, Pip )))) heheheh
[12:56] Fern Leissa: aye
[12:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye
[12:56] Pip Torok: aye
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: abstain
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: abstain
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: seems like you are chair
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: it may be that there is a third option that emerges will be better than ‘for’ or ‘against’ anyway
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi: ok, thx
[12:58] Fern Leissa: Congrats
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: you taking over CDS? lol
[12:58] Lilith Ivory: as third option
[12:58] Mikelo Serevi looks for his fainting gesture…
[12:58] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl !
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: ok guys next agenda point
[12:59] Fern Leissa: lol… I’m pretty sure that is NOT his intention. And good luck w/ that anyway. Rowdy crew
[12:59] Lilith Ivory: in the box there is a summary of Trebs land commission
[13:00] Lilith Ivory: unfortunately he could not come himself
[13:00] Rosie Gray excuses herself as she has another meeting to go to
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye, Rosie!)
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: bye Rosie
[13:01] Pip Torok: shame about the paragraphing of Trebs report
[13:01] Rosie Gray: bye all!
[13:01] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Rosie
[13:01] Lilith Ivory: bye Rosie
[13:01] Pip Torok: bye Rosie!
[13:01] Fern Leissa: bye Rosei
[13:01] Fern Leissa: *Rosie
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: we won´t get this done this term also but can start discussing it anyway
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Can we hear Sudane on this? (I was closely reading the proposal)
[13:03] Pip Torok: a pity we weren’t given 30-40 minutes to peruse it before discussion imo
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to also
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: IMHO, what Treb proposes is very reasonable. And fair.
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we just need to know if it’s financially solid
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: sorry for that pip
[13:04] Sudane Erato: i’m happy to comment if and when you wish
[13:04] Pip Torok supports gwyn’s wishes ..
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: but there is a forum threat and have been meetings
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: sure Sudane
[13:04] Pip Torok: forum threat?
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: thread
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[13:04] Pip Torok: thead! … sorry!
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: Well, more uniform pricing seems fair, but isn’t some land more desirable than others?
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: one of the words I have problems with
[13:05] Sudane Erato:
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Mikelo
[13:05] Guillaume Mistwalker: How do we accurately measure desirability…?
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: le´ts Sudane comment first
[13:06] Delia Lake wonders if there is a universal standard for desirable
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: before we start discussing
[13:06] Sudane Erato: oh… ok
[13:06] Sudane Erato: sure
[13:06] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:06] Pip Torok: only one way 9and a difficult one) the reluctance of the owner to sell … and the enquiries about a plot?
[13:06] Sudane Erato: i have only 2 points to make
[13:06] Sudane Erato: one is that I totally support the idea of simpler and more even tier rates
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia: very good philosophical question Also, we could say that the *price* of the land reflects ‘desirability’ while the tier is just.,.. taxes
[13:07] Sudane Erato: the current system is a result of history
[13:07] Sudane Erato: and its rather a hodge podge
[13:07] Mikelo Serevi: yes, it seems to have grown organically
[13:07] Sudane Erato: so i think its a good idea to make them uniform across sims
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: could we let Sudane talk please!
[13:07] Sudane Erato: second point
[13:08] Sudane Erato: is that I am concerned about the “break even” point
[13:08] Sudane Erato: let me explain
[13:08] Sudane Erato: Trebor points out that now, if all parcels were sold, we would make a certain amount per month
[13:08] Sudane Erato: some might feel this is “dramatically” high
[13:09] Sudane Erato: and the result of his proposal
[13:09] Sudane Erato: is to lower that to what “feels” like a more reasoanble amount
[13:09] Sudane Erato: but
[13:09] Sudane Erato: we are never fully sold
[13:09] Sudane Erato: and with the recent disastrous LL land policies
[13:10] Sudane Erato: we are less sold
[13:10] Sudane Erato: so…
[13:10] Sudane Erato: I think we must be very careful how much we lower the overall “100%” sold amount
[13:10] Sudane Erato: and discuss, instead
[13:10] Sudane Erato: what we consider a realistic “sold percentage”
[13:11] Long Range: Rubaiyat Shatner [45m] [13:11] Mikelo Serevi: what do you think we average?
[13:11] Sudane Erato: once we have that… its easy to calculate a fair tier rate
[13:11] Sudane Erato: Mikelo, I don’t know
[13:11] Sudane Erato: i’m a conservative person
[13:11] Sudane Erato: thats why you have me
[13:12] Lilith Ivory: Welcome Rubaiyat
[13:12] Sudane Erato: i might be inclined to estimate too low
[13:12] Rubaiyat Shatner: hello
[13:12] Mikelo Serevi: and why we’ve been so successful, I warrant
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ohhhhh hi hi Rubaiyat )))
[13:12] Rubaiyat Shatner: sorry I am so late
[13:12] Sudane Erato: but i suggest to you that the essence of this discussion
[13:12] Sudane Erato: is to agree on a break even point, or percentage of land sold..
[13:13] Sudane Erato: which is low enough to cover the risk we feel acceptable
[13:13] Fern Leissa: Sudane, If this is a fair question… with our current no. of vacancies.. if we accepted Trebors suggested tier rate… would we be loosing money?
[13:13] Sudane Erato: and high enough to lower our tier, since thats what everyone wants to do
[13:13] Sudane Erato: at the current occupancy, no
[13:14] Sudane Erato: we would have less margin for other expenses
[13:14] Sudane Erato: but most months i think we would not lose $$
[13:14] Sudane Erato: most months
[13:14] Soro Dagostino: There is a lot of “yellow” out there.
[13:14] Sudane Erato: tier varies a lot from month to month
[13:14] Sudane Erato: yes there is
[13:14] Sudane Erato: a lot more than there used to be
[13:15] Sudane Erato: and its not because of something we’ve done, or not done
[13:15] Fern Leissa: Agree Soro. But that is part of the reason we are considering lowering tier
[13:15] Sudane Erato: please don’t fool yourselves about that
[13:15] Fern Leissa: Do you think this is largely do to sl land policy Sudane?
[13:16] Sudane Erato: i do
[13:16] Sudane Erato: land is VERY expensive
[13:16] Fern Leissa: What about rl economic problems? any role?
[13:16] Sudane Erato: who can pay these rates??
[13:16] Sudane Erato: well, sure
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just utter SL fanatics really
[13:16] Sudane Erato: exactly Gwyn
[13:16] Mikelo Serevi: hooah!
[13:16] Pip Torok: ?
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that particular type is rare…
[13:17] Sudane Erato: and we want more people… and new people
[13:17] Fern Leissa whispers: oh no. I’m a fanatic again
[13:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: haha, Mik
[13:17] Mikelo Serevi: (a US military expression of assent)
[13:17] Sudane Erato: Trebor proposes a break even of 81% occupancy
[13:17] Sudane Erato: that makes me nervous
[13:17] Pip Torok: (thanks:)
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what’s our breakeven now, Sudane?
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: and what break even yould you suggest?
[13:18] Mikelo Serevi: so a fudge-factor of 20% more would make you more comfortable?
[13:18] Lilith Ivory: would you
[13:18] Sudane Erato: well, as Trebor points out, we need US$1075 each month just for tier
[13:18] Fern Leissa: I’m pretty conservative too Sudane. But what makes me a little more willing to consider Trebor’s rates is that we have a reasonable amount of reserve… enough to get us through the ra having to raise the rates again
[13:18] Sudane Erato: his proposal brings in 1343 at full occupancy
[13:19] Fern Leissa: I do here what you’ve said about reinstituting “taxes”… but
[13:19] Fern Leissa: *hear
[13:19] Sudane Erato: Fern, i just want to bring that up
[13:19] Sudane Erato: so people are conscious
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: raising the rates again might be difficult
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: a lot of people might leave
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: and less popular, to be sure
[13:20] Sudane Erato: if we daw down the reserve, sooner or later we’ll have to boost back up rates
[13:20] Fern Leissa: That’s something I hadn’t though about Lilith
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: yes, we had just such an issue with my RL condo HOA
[13:20] Fern Leissa: Definitly don’t want any more pp leaving
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: it got low, and we were stuck
[13:21] Fern Leissa: kk. I’ll drop my “maybe we could up the tier later idea”
[13:21] Sudane Erato: oh… those were my 2 points… i’;m finished
[13:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:21] Mikelo Serevi: or have an expiration date on the limits?
[13:22] Pip Torok puts hand up
[13:22] Fern Leissa: That might still make pp unhappy enough to leave
[13:22] Mikelo Serevi: thx Sudane
[13:22] Sudane Erato: yw
[13:22] Fern Leissa: yes ty Sudane
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: thank you Sudane
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks indeed.
[13:22] Lilith Ivory: Pip?
[13:23] Pip Torok: well it may seem like a dismal move but wdnt keeping the rate as it is be the most sensible option … anything else at this time cd easily rock the boat … done
[13:25] Fern Leissa: I’m wondering if we couldn’t look at setting tier to reflect a break even @ 75% occupancy.
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I also guess that we might have to sacrifice ‘fairness’ for ‘financial soundness’. I don’t like it, but… LL is not really going to change their rates soon. Or ever.
[13:25] Fern Leissa: What would you think about doing that Sudane?
[13:25] Sudane Erato: well,,, obviously to me better than 81%
[13:26] Fern Leissa: Remember…. reducing tier has come up repeatedly
[13:26] Fern Leissa: It was a constant topic during my covenant meetings
[13:26] Sudane Erato: yes, and also equalizing tier
[13:26] Fern Leissa: yes.. that too. But definitly reducing
[13:26] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:26] Sudane Erato: really 2 topics
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor btw
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: didn´t see you coming in
[13:27] Fern Leissa: HiTor
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all
[13:27] Pip Torok: hi Tor…
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiya Tor!
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry I am so late
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: well, perhaps a stepping down might also work, a 60-70% break-even, then alter it to lower tier again if it seems safe
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: hi Tor
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyn, Pip, all
[13:28] Pip Torok: but Mikelo … ANY change of tier from the citizens pov is going to be destabalizing
[13:28] Fern Leissa: I feel we are being a little too cautious
[13:28] Pip Torok: (theyll wonder which way it might jump next)
[13:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hi Tor! ㋡
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to have reduced tier as it might bring us more citizens
[13:29] Lilith Ivory: IF we can afford that
[13:30] Fern Leissa: I would prefer some reduction to events spending if necessary over no tier reduction
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: I have to go, sadly. This is an interesting topic
[13:30] Fern Leissa: Bye Mikelo
[13:30] Pip Torok: (in the Chinese sense, unfortunately)
[13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: We have been very cautious with event spending.
[13:31] Rubaiyat Shatner:
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: bye Mikelo
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Really we should have more events.
[13:31] Lilith Ivory: yes Rubaiyat
[13:31] Fern Leissa: Agreed . That is why I think we have a little reserve
[13:31] Mikelo Serevi waves
[13:31] Sudane Erato: calculator working…. using Trebors numbers, current brakeven is 63%. His proposal raises that to 81%
[13:32] Fern Leissa: Soooo 75%?
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: That seem conservative
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:32] Pip Torok: agree with fern …
[13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: we do have a large reserve already.
[13:32] Rubaiyat Shatner: why don’t we offer discounts to groups that bring in events and citizens
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but it’s conservative enough?
[13:33] Rubaiyat Shatner: /I was suggesting to educators, but really any solid group like that could drive our citizenship and create interesting events.
[13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Maybe Rub
[13:33] Lilith Ivory: anybody COULD do that imo
[13:34] Lilith Ivory: hard to find out which events actually bring citizens and which not
[13:34] Fern Leissa: Sorry to bring up events lol. I erase my earlier statement
[13:34] Rubaiyat Shatner: /yes, but I think it could be a specific contract, people and institutions that we want to host
[13:34] Tor Karlsvalt: A group could be a block tho. Not sure we should subsidize a political group.
[13:34] Rubaiyat Shatner: /we would need to be clear on that
[13:34] Pip Torok: agree with Tor
[13:35] Rubaiyat Shatner: /I agreee
[13:35] Fern Leissa: In my recent experience .. also seems difficult to find groups/educators, etc. willing to set up here
[13:35] Fern Leissa: I have been looking… just in terms of increasing activity. I think Tor has for sure as Exec
[13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Really CDS already has some nice facilities for anyone who wants to use them
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: The school for instance
[13:36] Rubaiyat Shatner: /I don’t want to get caught up on educators, it is just what I know
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: ok sure
[13:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have thought about using the school, but are public areas open to groups to use for the time being?
[13:36] Rubaiyat Shatner: /but since LL is no longer supporting them, there may still be some shakeout, they are a strong community
[13:37] Fern Leissa: That’s true Rubaiyat
[13:37] Pip Torok: why not the Old Bowl, Gui?
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quite so.
[13:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: True, pip
[13:37] Rubaiyat Shatner: /I have used different facilities for classes here, and always need land too.
[13:38] Rubaiyat Shatner: /is there a published policy on the use of the school?
[13:38] Fern Leissa: But what about reducing tier rates for private citizens… what should we do? Ask Trebor for some more numbers based on different % occupancy?
[13:38] Sudane Erato: forgive me… duty calls
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: hmmm, might be hard to change that without doing some planning for a new sim or in LA.
[13:38] Sudane Erato: bye now
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ok sudane, see you later
[13:38] Fern Leissa: Bye Sudane. Many thanks
[13:38] Rubaiyat Shatner: bye sudane
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Sudane ㋡
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: bye Sudane :9
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: thanks for coming
[13:39] Pip Torok: bye Sudane and thank you
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for the explanations!
[13:39] Rubaiyat Shatner: /I had considered running for RA, but don’t have the time, I am still willing to help where I can.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Since we are already conservative, perhaps the NG could take up replanning of LA to allow for some public land for a building school.
[13:39] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: just throwing that out
[13:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hm…
[13:40] Pip Torok: I understand Rubaiyat has ideas in that direction, Tor
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: do we want to continue talking about land or should we give Fern a chance to talk about her commission instead?
[13:41] Rubaiyat Shatner: /well the point has been made that we already have facilities
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: we run out of time
[13:41] Pip Torok: i suggest we go on then Mme Chair
[13:42] Rubaiyat Shatner: /I am done, happy to pick it up later
[13:42] Fern Leissa: Shouldn’t we respond one way or another to Trebor’s proposal
[13:42] Pip Torok: unless we formalize 75% in a motion, there is little we can do right now
[13:43] Fern Leissa whispers: Fern promises to talk very fast and very briefly about the covenant re-write
[13:43] Pip Torok: (lol)
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[13:43] Soro Dagostino: Why not ask him to revise his #’s to a series of break even points?
[13:43] Fern Leissa: ok… so we assume the next ra will pick up the discussion?
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: I don´t want to railroad this issue
[13:44] Fern Leissa: I like that idea Soro if that’s a legit thing to do
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: probably wise
[13:44] Tor Karlsvalt: we still have some time.
[13:44] Pip Torok: Soro, Trebor’s time is limited … thats probably not practical atm
[13:45] Soro Dagostino: Why not ask?
[13:45] Lilith Ivory: I´m sure Treb is willing to do that
[13:45] Pip Torok: ok … let’s ask!
[13:45] Fern Leissa:
[13:45] Fern Leissa: Do we need a motion??
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion to ask Trebor? lol
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:46] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha
[13:46] Pip Torok: nah … move to next item
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: ok hehe
[13:46] Fern Leissa: That me???
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: Draft 2011-something
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: yes that´s you Fern
[13:47] Fern Leissa: The draft in the box is a day old.
[13:47] Fern Leissa: I’ve added some language about clubs…
[13:48] Fern Leissa: sorry hang on… I’ll get it
[13:48] Fern Leissa: 4. All clubs are subject to review by the Executive branch. Normally only one club per sim is allowed and that on terms negotiated in advance with the CDS and enforced by the Chancellor.
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CDS Covenant DRAFT 2011-05-14 ?
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ok
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[13:49] Fern Leissa: Yes CDS Covenant Draft 2011-05-14 is probably what you have
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is “club” in this context “any type of place hosting music events”?
[13:49] Fern Leissa: The only addition to Draft 2011-05-15 is the clause about clubs
[13:49] Fern Leissa: Yes.. music, dancing, etc.
[13:50] Fern Leissa: A couple of other changes I want to highlight
[13:50] Pip Torok: I wd suggest defining it explicity in the covenants, Fern
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[13:50] Fern Leissa: Limits on land ownership are now applied CDS-wide not sim-wide
[13:51] Fern Leissa: I did put it in the covenant Pip… it’s in the latest draft.
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so why are clubs/musical venues ‘restricted’? What’s the point? being able to promote them better via the PIO if the Exec knows about them?
[13:51] Pip Torok: (nice one !:)
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ok on limits hehe — not that we don’t have enough land for sale!)
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:51] Fern Leissa: They are typically restricted in many Estate settings to prevent the “clubs” full of people that produce lag that you find all over the mainland
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, it’s a lag-stopping measure?
[13:52] Fern Leissa: That… and maybe there are some pole-dancing, etc issues wrapped into that one
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what you’re saying is that it’s better NOT to have a lot of people in the CDS?
[13:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hehe
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt:
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we’re a small, calm, peaceful… and boring community! Join us”
[13:53] Fern Leissa: No… I think the intent was (clubs were forbidden under the old CDs covenant) to controll
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see my point
[13:53] Fern Leissa: sim traffic
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok about control
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I suspect the club issue was more stemming from tradition than any other reason.
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Tor
[13:54] Fern Leissa: huum… I lived next to one briefly on mainland… not so sure I’d want to see one of those here
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you see, I think that if we had a 24/7 music venue crammed full of eventgs — and people! — we wouldn’t be discussing tier prices lol
[13:54] Soro Dagostino: RL calls, carry on.
[13:54] Fern Leissa: Bye Soro.
[13:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: Bye Soro
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Soro
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: bye Soro
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, there are always aesthetic considerations, of coruse, those are covered by the covenants
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you, Soro)
[13:54] Lilith Ivory giggles about Gwyns comment
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:55] Pip Torok: bye Soro
[13:55] Fern Leissa: Certainly… this way, if the RA wishes to approve “permits” for gobs of clubs… that would be quite possible
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see the point, yes.
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: we definitely need a red light district in the CDS;-)
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. I was just wondering; I forgot that clubs were banned under the old covenant
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeeees Lilith hahahaha
[13:56] Fern Leissa: The other option is yes… we could simply remove the restriction about clubs altogether
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: We could have RA pass a law allowing clubs to apply for a license
[13:56] Lilith Ivory: not to forget nude beaches
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[13:56] Pip Torok: orgies in the Cloaca!
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the ‘license’ would be “written permission by the Exec” in this case,
[13:56] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha, yes…!
[13:56] Tor Karlsvalt: THAT would bring some traffice
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which sort of applies to all buildings
[13:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: FKK for the CDS?
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and oh yes, Tor We have a beach already in LA… heh heh
[13:57] Pip Torok: very good and very underused beach imnsho
[13:57] Fern Leissa: So do we want to take the club clause out of the covenant entirely?
[13:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Seriously the RA could possibly set guidelines
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, no, Fern, I’m fine, I just wanted to clarify what was *intended*
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: what about “clbs need to be aproved”
[13:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: Gwyn, couldn’t we have a statute that says that the Exec must grant permission on the grant of the RA?”
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m enlightened
[13:58] Fern Leissa whispers: I expect to see you all naked on the beach in LA if we do.
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe how many in a sim
[13:58] Tor Karlsvalt: or size
[13:59] Lilith Ivory: and what kind of club!
[13:59] Fern Leissa: The clause as of today.. says “normally only one club per sim…”
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: should we except any sanctioned CDS eventes?
[13:59] Tor Karlsvalt: events
[14:00] Fern Leissa: I hesitate writing exactly the types of clubs included/excluded into the covenant. I would prefer to leave it up to the good judgement of the Chancellor.
[14:00] Tor Karlsvalt:
[14:00] Fern Leissa: He/she after all will be the one administering compliance
[14:01] Fern Leissa: I don’t think CDS sponsored events fall under the club restriction
[14:01] Fern Leissa: We’re talking about privately owned clubs
[14:01] Tor Karlsvalt deep down sort of a prude. so nichs on the nude beach he thinks.
[14:01] Fern Leissa: hehe
[14:01] Rubaiyat Shatner: /can we have an orgy then?
[14:02] Fern Leissa: Talk to the Chancellor
[14:02] Rubaiyat Shatner: /g rated
[14:02] Fern Leissa: Another change I need to point out
[14:02] Fern Leissa: and this may be of interest to yu Rubaiyat… is that land ownership calculations
[14:03] Fern Leissa: are now based solely on the owner listed on the about land tab
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mh?
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh ok.
[14:03] Fern Leissa: Calculating and therefore enforcing land ownership restrictions on group members is not possible
[14:04] Fern Leissa: Part of the reason for the covenant rewrite was to make it possible to enforce
[14:04] Fern Leissa: Comments?
[14:05] Fern Leissa: Also restrictions on subletting have been removed. This seems to be a unanimous wish of our vendors
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh
[14:05] Rubaiyat Shatner: /why is the limit in there if we have unsold land?
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and what ‘rights’ will be granted to subletters?
[14:06] Fern Leissa: Subletters do not have citizenship rights as things now stand… unless they opt for citizenship
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh!
[14:06] Fern Leissa: through one of the citizenship paths…
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Yes!
[14:06] Fern Leissa: supporting a public monument…
[14:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you for reminding me, Fern ㋡
[14:07] Fern Leissa: The reason we have some restrictions on ownership is 1) to protect CDS from the financial difficulty that could arise
[14:07] Pip Torok wonders whether its feasible having a group-nominated person to be the entity subject to land-limits
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Rubaiyat the thought was one person cannot buy up so much land that they hold sway over us by their threat to leave. And also to have land for more citizens.
[14:07] Fern Leissa: if one very big landowner left
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, that makes sense.
[14:07] Fern Leissa: and 2) because most of the pp attending the covenant mtgs. did not like the idea of unlimited ownership… even in the face of our vacancies
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “A citizen can own a maximum of 8 C.D.S land parcels and cannot own more than 8192 m2. ” What about group-owned land restrictions?
[14:08] Pip Torok sees the very real to democracy in large land-holdings
[14:08] Fern Leissa: There are no longer any group-owned lands for the purposes of this covenant
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So in theory you could have a group of, say, 10 friends,
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and collectively own 80 plots
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so long as each group of 8 plots is held by a different individual.
[14:09] Fern Leissa: Some one person… normally the group owner is the one subject to land ownership restrictions
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The group owner?
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s better
[14:09] Pip Torok: depends how friendly the friends were, gwyn
[14:10] Fern Leissa: No… each individual plot is “linked” to a specific individual and that individual has an 8 plot limit
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So land ‘set to group’ is not counted as ‘group-owned land’. That is fine.
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Fern, thanks for the clarification!
[14:10] Fern Leissa: You could own 80 plots as a group… but they would “belong” to 10 differnt individuals
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
[14:11] Rubaiyat Shatner: that sounds compex
[14:11] Fern Leissa: That’s the plan… but I’m looking for problems… esp w/ respect to enforcement… so please point them out
[14:11] Fern Leissa: Time for me to quit talking I think
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no no, do go on ))
[14:11] Lilith Ivory: we do overtime already – unfortunately
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nothing like a thorough explanation to let us know what we’re voting for
[14:11] Guillaume Mistwalker: Actually, I’m afraid I must go…
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: alas, yes
[14:12] Pip Torok: bye guillaume
[14:12] Fern Leissa: Bye Guillaume
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: let´s table it and hope the next RA will keep working on it
[14:12] Lilith Ivory: bye Gui
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: bye G
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye ladies and gentlemen ㋡
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye G
[14:12] Rubaiyat Shatner: /bye buillaume
[14:12] Pip Torok: I propose this item be tabled
[14:12] Fern Leissa: Yes… I agree Lilith. But please take time to look the draft over and id problems
[14:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: See you all next term (hopefully! ㋡ )
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: although from my point of view, I think that I have no objections… the clarifications were fine…
[14:12] Rubaiyat Shatner: /guillaume*
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but ok I’m fine with tabling lol
[14:13] Pip Torok: seconder?
[14:13] Fern Leissa: second
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Naf!
[14:13] Fern Leissa: Hi Naf
[14:13] Naftali Torok: waves hello to all
[14:13] Pip Torok: Hi Naftali !!!
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi! You come to say us goodbye, Naf
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: all in favour for tabling say aye please
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: hi Naf
[14:14] Pip Torok: aye
[14:14] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:14] Naftali Torok: goodbye…. , no hello…
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha….
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye, sure
[14:14] Pip Torok: “I don’t know why you say goodbye, I say hello!”
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, yes, excedllent quote, Pip
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: let´s hope the next RA gets this finished
[14:15] Lilith Ivory: RA member concerns?
[14:15] Fern Leissa: none for me
[14:16] Pip Torok: yes ….
[14:16] Pip Torok: may our last act be a vote of thanks to Lilith … our magnificent chair!
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely second that!!!!!
[14:16] Lilith Ivory: awwwww
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bravo, Lil
[14:17] Fern Leissa: Yes. Thank you Lilith. You have done an awesome job
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: thank you ::))
[14:17] Pip Torok: its been a great session, Lilith
[14:17] Lilith Ivory blushes
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:17] Pip Torok: applause
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: be prepared to find me on a cheaper seat next term hehe
[14:17] Fern Leissa: clap clap clap
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds enthusiastically too!
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: don´t we have any announcements?
[14:18] Fern Leissa: huum… Is there an election coming up maybe
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: is it?
[14:18] Lilith Ivory: lol
[14:18] Delia Lake: yes, there is an election coming up
[14:18] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I believe we all got a NC about it from Delia
[14:19] Fern Leissa whispers: just kiddin
[14:19] Delia Lake: today is the first day of campaigning
[14:19] Pip Torok: oh yes!
[14:19] Tor Karlsvalt saves is millions in the campaign fund for personal use as there is no oppostion.
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahahahaha
[14:19] Fern Leissa: lol
[14:19] Lilith Ivory: hehehe
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt:
[14:20] Naftali Torok: well it seems I just was in time to miss the meeting…..
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt smiles considering the chancellor still has term limits
[14:20] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:20] Naftali Torok: giggles, but I am happy to be in time to say hello to all of yu
[14:21] Fern Leissa:
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: I´m going to post the transcript soon
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: somehow I will miss th sit up there
[14:21] Fern Leissa: There is alwasy a next time Lilith
[14:21] Lilith Ivory: I might ask Moon for a copy of this chair
[14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Dont for get we are having Floralia the 27th, 28th and 29th.
[14:22] Naftali Torok: bye bye,
[14:22] Lilith Ivory: bye Naf
[14:22] Fern Leissa: Bye Naf See you soon we hope
[14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: by naf
[14:22] Naftali Torok: nods,
[14:22] Lilith Ivory: afk for a while to post the transcript
[14:22] Naftali Torok: waiting for a new and better comp than this lousy laptop
[14:22] Naftali Torok: but good to see yu all
[14:22] Naftali Torok: take care
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye Naf
[14:23] Fern Leissa: Meeting officially over??
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: oops
[14:23] Lilith Ivory: we need to vote on that right?
[14:24] Fern Leissa:
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:24] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:24] Lilith Ivory: all in favour to adjourn say aye please
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t hear the ‘meeting adjourned’ bit!
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:24] Fern Leissa: aye
[14:25] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:25] Lilith Ivory: Pip?
[14:25] Lilith Ivory giggles
[14:25] Fern Leissa whispers: Talking to Naf I’ll bet
[14:25] Lilith Ivory smiles

Permalink.

11th Representative Assembly (13)

RA Meeting 28 June 2009

RA Transcript from Chat 06.28.09
by Soro Dagostino » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:28 am
Here is yesterday’s transcript from my Chat Log of the RA Meeting. May we please get a recorder that works and is always there for the RA Meetings?

RA Meeting Transcript 06/28/2009
[2009/06/28 9:03] Pip Torok: I consent to be recorded
[2009/06/28 9:03] Soro Dagostino: He is near.
[2009/06/28 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see him coming…
[2009/06/28 9:03] Patroklus Murakami: hi sonja
[2009/06/28 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.., I consent to be recorded as well…
[2009/06/28 9:03] Patroklus Murakami: i consent to be recorded too
[2009/06/28 9:04] Sonja Strom: I consent to be recorded
[2009/06/28 9:04] Soro Dagostino: No recorder — so the chat log will be our record.
[2009/06/28 9:04] Soro Dagostino: So please state your consent to recordation.
[2009/06/28 9:04] Chat Range: Jamie Palisades [13m] [2009/06/28 9:04] Soro Dagostino: I consent.
[2009/06/28 9:04] Patroklus Murakami: consent
[2009/06/28 9:05] Patroklus Murakami: hi jamie
[2009/06/28 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just did… lol
[2009/06/28 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Jamie!
[2009/06/28 9:05] Jamie Palisades: Cheers working my way up through hotel internet lag – and i consent
[2009/06/28 9:06] Soro Dagostino: Cindy and Brian are 7 day votes. They are not to be here.
[2009/06/28 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn hopes it’s a vacation hotel and not a business trip :=
[2009/06/28 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Soro
[2009/06/28 9:06] Soro Dagostino: Are there changes to the Agenda?
[2009/06/28 9:07] Patroklus Murakami: none from me
[2009/06/28 9:07] Pip Torok: nor me
[2009/06/28 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… none from me either…
[2009/06/28 9:08] Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
[2009/06/28 9:08] Sonja Strom: no
[2009/06/28 9:09] Soro Dagostino: Are there any speakers who wish to be heard?
[2009/06/28 9:09] Jamie Palisades: I;m on the proposed anti-AA constitutional amendment, Soro, please
[2009/06/28 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn hopes at least to hear Jamie
[2009/06/28 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “anti-AA”?
[2009/06/28 9:09] Jamie Palisades: count on it
[2009/06/28 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn missed that on the agenda…
[2009/06/28 9:09] Soro Dagostino: For the record, no visitors except the Chancellor.
[2009/06/28 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: anti-AA?
[2009/06/28 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: election campaign started early i see
[2009/06/28 9:10] Soro Dagostino: The next meeting is Sunday, July 5th.
[2009/06/28 9:10] Taku Raymaker is Offline
[2009/06/28 9:10] Soro Dagostino: At 0900
[2009/06/28 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, next week?
[2009/06/28 9:11] Soro Dagostino: Ooops, you are right .
[2009/06/28 9:11] Pip Torok: lol
[2009/06/28 9:11] Taku Raymaker is Online
[2009/06/28 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m fine myself, Soro!
[2009/06/28 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really… I was just checking… if everybody else agrees, I’m fine
[2009/06/28 9:12] Pip Torok: I move to postpone the meeting for a week
[2009/06/28 9:12] Soro Dagostino: That would be the 12th of July.
[2009/06/28 9:12] Patroklus Murakami: i can make it, but some n american colleagues may have other plans
[2009/06/28 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine either way
[2009/06/28 9:13] Soro Dagostino: So its a consensus?
[2009/06/28 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
[2009/06/28 9:13] Sonja Strom: I can be at either, or both.
[2009/06/28 9:13] Soro Dagostino: July 12?
[2009/06/28 9:13] Patroklus Murakami: july 12 is fine by me
[2009/06/28 9:13] Sonja Strom: Fine for me.
[2009/06/28 9:13] Pip Torok: both are fine by me
[2009/06/28 9:13] Soro Dagostino: I’ll reset it until that date.
[2009/06/28 9:14] Soro Dagostino: Chancellor’s Report.
[2009/06/28 9:14] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you have the floor.
[2009/06/28 9:14] Jamie Palisades: I’m up?
[2009/06/28 9:14] Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/06/28 9:14] Jamie Palisades: Briefly, as you can see out the window, we have a Monastery sim
[2009/06/28 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes!!!
[2009/06/28 9:14] Sonja Strom: Yay!
[2009/06/28 9:14] Long Range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia [44m] [2009/06/28 9:14] Jamie Palisades: I’m delighted, and Arria and Ulysee are working away at it
[2009/06/28 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No more gaps! haha
[2009/06/28 9:14] Soro Dagostino: Very pretty.
[2009/06/28 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/06/28 9:15] Jamie Palisades: also, with most of CDS sold, and even AA if that deal closes, we can use the six new lots
[2009/06/28 9:15] Jamie Palisades: We will also have a small number of new lots coming on line from the “old” Monastery space
[2009/06/28 9:15] Pip Torok: (dont forget the new AM ones)
[2009/06/28 9:16] Jamie Palisades: which the guild has already re-plotted for us
[2009/06/28 9:16] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/06/28 9:16] Jamie Palisades: by the way
[2009/06/28 9:16] Jamie Palisades: we will need to grapple with the risk tha we still have no room for new landlowers, if some of our karger existing land owners snap up all the lots … again
[2009/06/28 9:16] Close Range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia [33m] [2009/06/28 9:16] Chat Range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia [14m] [2009/06/28 9:17] Jamie Palisades: i am looking into what we can legally do about this … and may have more to report to this august body
[2009/06/28 9:17] Soro Dagostino: Welcome Cleo
[2009/06/28 9:17] Sonja Strom: Hi Cleopatra
[2009/06/28 9:17] Soro Dagostino: Join us.
[2009/06/28 9:17] Patroklus Murakami: hi cleopatra, welcome
[2009/06/28 9:18] Jamie Palisades: Cleopatra., by the way, recenyl joined us opening a toga store, though she’s seeing low traffic and having second thoughts
[2009/06/28 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[2009/06/28 9:18] Jamie Palisades: anyway, back to my report
[2009/06/28 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So sorry to hear that! I was at Cleo’s toga shop the other day. (and sorry)
[2009/06/28 9:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: This is true.
[2009/06/28 9:18] Jamie Palisades: the sole bad news really, on land, is that the old Emporia Romani space which we asked
[2009/06/28 9:18] Jamie Palisades: … some guild members to refurbish …
[2009/06/28 9:18] Long Range: Danton Sideways [78m] [2009/06/28 9:19] Jamie Palisades: .. was never completed, so I expect either to have that completed or reassign it by the next time we meet here.
[2009/06/28 9:19] Jamie Palisades: OK, hmm
[2009/06/28 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/06/28 9:19] Long Range: Naftali Torok [44m] [2009/06/28 9:19] Chat Range: Ceasar Xigalia [10m] [2009/06/28 9:19] Jamie Palisades: Very successful Grand Tour, we were the most popular stop
[2009/06/28 9:19] Jamie Palisades: see the Forum events posting
[2009/06/28 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woot
[2009/06/28 9:19] Close Range: Naftali Torok [34m] [2009/06/28 9:19] Jamie Palisades: and thanks to those of you who show up to help us host it matters
[2009/06/28 9:19] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/06/28 9:20] Chat Range: Naftali Torok [13m] [2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: CDS is again exhibiting at SL6B
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: I will also post that in events
[2009/06/28 9:20] Sonja Strom: Super
[2009/06/28 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: superb news
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: fun display on the future of SL .. and CDS
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: of course, it mentions AA, so depending onm what you do today, I may have to go amend it
[2009/06/28 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: but there’s also other fun stuff
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: by the way
[2009/06/28 9:20] Jamie Palisades: a robochancellor
[2009/06/28 9:21] Pip Torok: ??
[2009/06/28 9:21] Jamie Palisades: so do go look, if only to see MY ultimate replacement
[2009/06/28 9:21] Patroklus Murakami: i must see that!
[2009/06/28 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* riiiiight
[2009/06/28 9:21] Jamie Palisades: I will get the SLURL and paste it in chat here, shortly
[2009/06/28 9:21] Sonja Strom: at SL6B?
[2009/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades: it talks less than me, Gwyn, some say that’s a significant upgrade
[2009/06/28 9:22] Sonja Strom: lol
[2009/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades: yes, sonja, SLURL to cone shortly
[2009/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades: last item of note
[2009/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades: AA merger transaction
[2009/06/28 9:23] Jamie Palisades: assuming the legal environment for it does not deteriorate
[2009/06/28 9:23] Jamie Palisades: such that they choose not to close
[2009/06/28 9:23] Long Range: Delia Lake [58m] [2009/06/28 9:23] Jamie Palisades: we’d looked at the options and decided it;s much lessy messy to close post-CDS-RA -election dealdine
[2009/06/28 9:23] Jamie Palisades: so they will come on line to CDS, oif they do, between 7 and 16 July
[2009/06/28 9:23] Jamie Palisades: as a practical matter
[2009/06/28 9:23] Jamie Palisades: the steps include
[2009/06/28 9:24] Close Range: Delia Lake [38m] [2009/06/28 9:24] Jamie Palisades: – their voter rolls being assded to ours, by notification to Treasurer and SC
[2009/06/28 9:24] Jamie Palisades: *added
[2009/06/28 9:24] Chat Range: Delia Lake [12m] [2009/06/28 9:24] Jamie Palisades: – CDS starts collecting rents from their HIPPO system
[2009/06/28 9:24] Jamie Palisades: (thus we are spared the need for a separate HIPPO test )
[2009/06/28 9:24] Jamie Palisades: – we pay their tier
[2009/06/28 9:25] Jamie Palisades: – and, as to their four “void” estates, whihc conme due to LL in the fal, we sort out whether we need to go to some kind of payment other than monthy
[2009/06/28 9:25] Jamie Palisades: *monthly
[2009/06/28 9:25] Jamie Palisades: (as the “credit risks” to CDS are s omewhate different for big chunks like that)_
[2009/06/28 9:26] Patroklus Murakami: i have a quick comment to make on timing and impact on the size of the RA when you are ready soro
[2009/06/28 9:26] Jamie Palisades: There are a bunch of little thikngs with land groups and the like too, which i will write about on the forums but probably ar enot woirth agenda time here
[2009/06/28 9:26] Jamie Palisades: thanks
[2009/06/28 9:26] Jamie Palisades: I’m done
[2009/06/28 9:26] Jamie Palisades: (Hi Delia)
[2009/06/28 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for the report! Soro, I might also have one question for the Chancellor, if possible (after Pat)
[2009/06/28 9:26] Soro Dagostino: Lets welcome Delia Naftali and Ceaser
[2009/06/28 9:27] Ceasar Xigalia: hi
[2009/06/28 9:27] Naftali Torok: finally rezzed as well
[2009/06/28 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Delia, Naf, and Ceasar!)
[2009/06/28 9:27] Naftali Torok: hello all
[2009/06/28 9:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hail ceasar!
[2009/06/28 9:27] Patroklus Murakami: hi all
[2009/06/28 9:27] Jamie Palisades: heh hail indeed
[2009/06/28 9:27] Delia Lake: hi everyone
[2009/06/28 9:27] Delia’s translator: Hola a todos:)
[2009/06/28 9:27] Soro Dagostino: Quesstions for Jamie
[2009/06/28 9:27] Sonja Strom: Hola Delia
[2009/06/28 9:27] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[2009/06/28 9:28] Patroklus Murakami: yes. i remember that in previous elections we have not known what teh size of teh RA woudl be until polling day
[2009/06/28 9:28] Patroklus Murakami: that’s because our rather odd electoral system defines it as 10% of citizens rounded down
[2009/06/28 9:29] Patroklus Murakami: and the cut off point has previously been the start of the election polling
[2009/06/28 9:29] Patroklus Murakami: i wondered if that had been factored in to considerations?
[2009/06/28 9:29] Patroklus Murakami: presumably, if 30 odd new citizens join us just before polling
[2009/06/28 9:29] Patroklus Murakami: we might end up with a 10 member RA but with only 70 of us entitled to vote
[2009/06/28 9:30] Patroklus Murakami: has this been considered?
[2009/06/28 9:30] Soro Dagostino: Pat – I think that is not in order
[2009/06/28 9:30] Soro Dagostino: It is a later item on the agenda.
[2009/06/28 9:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Odd new citizens?
[2009/06/28 9:30] Patroklus Murakami: sorry soro, why not?
[2009/06/28 9:30] Patroklus Murakami: 30 odd = 30 something
[2009/06/28 9:30] Jamie Palisades: soro, up to you but I am happy to offer an answer if you like
[2009/06/28 9:30] Soro Dagostino: Your proposal is up for discussion.
[2009/06/28 9:31] Soro Dagostino: Ok, you may.
[2009/06/28 9:31] Jamie Palisades: i take pat;s question as about what happens if no bill is passed
[2009/06/28 9:31] Jamie Palisades: so relevant now
[2009/06/28 9:31] Jamie Palisades: and here is my view on the answer, FWIW
[2009/06/28 9:31] Jamie Palisades: we have a constitutionally beyond attack bill approving the merger terms
[2009/06/28 9:31] Jamie Palisades: and we have a constitution
[2009/06/28 9:32] Jamie Palisades: and must obey both
[2009/06/28 9:32] Jamie Palisades: so wherever the bill does not speak we’re guided by the constitution filling in gaps
[2009/06/28 9:32] Jamie Palisades: in this case
[2009/06/28 9:33] Jamie Palisades: it woudl be (I thikn) a constitutional problem to give some citizens a doubel vote, so to speak
[2009/06/28 9:33] Jamie Palisades: so necessarily
[2009/06/28 9:33] Jamie Palisades: any of the “new AA” citizens of CDS
[2009/06/28 9:33] Jamie Palisades: who will get their own reps in the one time temporary appointment to come, per the adopted legislation
[2009/06/28 9:33] Jamie Palisades: can’t also be voters in the upcoming (imminent) CDS RA election
[2009/06/28 9:34] Jamie Palisades: note – we can force that outcome just by timing the date of the merger too
[2009/06/28 9:34] Jamie Palisades: other possible steps might better be disvcussed under the agehnda item for Pat’s latest bill
[2009/06/28 9:34] Jamie Palisades: done thx
[2009/06/28 9:35] Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie
[2009/06/28 9:36] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — I believe you were next.
[2009/06/28 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2009/06/28 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, you mentioned a “change of tier payments to LL”, e.g. not doing it monthly
[2009/06/28 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you refer to the way LL deals with not-for-profits paying tier, which is billed for 6 months?
[2009/06/28 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, I believe that we should change our funding legislation, which requires the Treasury to have funds for 3 months of payment
[2009/06/28 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … to have at least 6
[2009/06/28 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, thank you
[2009/06/28 9:38] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, yes, and CDS has not yet before dealt with the questioon of whether we want to “front” pay 6 months at a time for a void — so the Q comes up whether we bill those tenants monthly. To be explored, that’s all.
[2009/06/28 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, so it’s also a question on how citizens are billed… I see
[2009/06/28 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh â€” I suggest we put that on the agenda for the next RA meeting, then, and discuss it on the forums
[2009/06/28 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s definitely worth discussing it!)
[2009/06/28 9:40] Chat Range: Danton Sideways [10m] [2009/06/28 9:40] Delia Lake: hi Danton
[2009/06/28 9:40] Soro Dagostino: Hello Danton, Welcome
[2009/06/28 9:40] Patroklus Murakami: hi danton
[2009/06/28 9:40] Pip Torok: hi Danton!!
[2009/06/28 9:40] Jamie Palisades nods at Gwyn. Hi Danton
[2009/06/28 9:40] Naftali Torok: helo dant
[2009/06/28 9:40] Danton Sideways: Hi everybody, just dropped in for a bit
[2009/06/28 9:40] Danton Sideways: I consent to be recorded
[2009/06/28 9:40] Ceasar Xigalia: bye all
[2009/06/28 9:40] Pip Torok: bye caesar
[2009/06/28 9:41] Delia Lake: and I also consent to be recorded (forgot that)
[2009/06/28 9:41] Soro Dagostino: Any more Questions for Jamie?
[2009/06/28 9:42] Patroklus Murakami: none from me
[2009/06/28 9:42] Soro Dagostino: Moveing to Item III 1 on the agenda.
[2009/06/28 9:42] Soro Dagostino: The Constitutional Amendment.
[2009/06/28 9:43] Patroklus Murakami: i would like to move we discuss the constitutional amendment
[2009/06/28 9:43] Soro Dagostino: Which I believe to be amended.
[2009/06/28 9:43] Jamie Palisades: can we get a forum URL or a text?
[2009/06/28 9:43] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30#p13449
[2009/06/28 9:43] Jamie Palisades: thx
[2009/06/28 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie’s request
[2009/06/28 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2009/06/28 9:43] Soro Dagostino: It was postponed from the prior session.
[2009/06/28 9:44] Patroklus Murakami: PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Add at end of Article I, Section 1 (The Representative Assembly): “The RA approves merger agreements with other communities.”

Add at end of Article I, Section 2 (The Representative Assembly Body): “The RA may be supplemented with interim additional representatives, freely chosen by a community joining the CDS.”

Add at end of Article II, Section 2 (c) (Powers of The Chancellor): “and to enter into merger discussions with other communities”
[2009/06/28 9:44] Patroklus Murakami: soro, i’m not aware of any amendment of my amendment! what were you referring to?
[2009/06/28 9:44] Soro Dagostino: Pat –you said it was a chnge in the forum.
[2009/06/28 9:45] Patroklus Murakami: apologies. indeed, this is a new amendment given that the other one failed
[2009/06/28 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2009/06/28 9:45] Patroklus Murakami: shall i introduce it now?
[2009/06/28 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to have Pat introduce it too, if possible.
[2009/06/28 9:45] Soro Dagostino: It is that time.
[2009/06/28 9:46] Patroklus Murakami: okay, well this constitutional amendment is a very minimal affair
[2009/06/28 9:46] Jamie Palisades: the “other one” being the 7 day one that SOnja and CSDF voted down?> just checking
[2009/06/28 9:46] Jamie Palisades: (sorry)
[2009/06/28 9:46] Patroklus Murakami: it is intended to enable the merger with al andalus to proceed smoothly and ensure the AA reps can join the RA
[2009/06/28 9:47] Soro Dagostino: Please state the motion
[2009/06/28 9:47] Patroklus Murakami: it also provides for a very minimal framework for future expansions based on the recent experience with AA
[2009/06/28 9:47] Soro Dagostino: Then we can discuss.
[2009/06/28 9:47] Patroklus Murakami: i move we discuss the amendment
[2009/06/28 9:47] Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/06/28 9:48] Sonja Strom: aye
[2009/06/28 9:48] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/06/28 9:48] Soro Dagostino: In favor.
[2009/06/28 9:48] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/06/28 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I;m confused? the vote is to open debvate?
[2009/06/28 9:49] Jamie Palisades: do you DO that here?
[2009/06/28 9:49] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[2009/06/28 9:49] Pip Torok: yes jamie
[2009/06/28 9:49] Jamie Palisades smiles, shrugs
[2009/06/28 9:49] Weston Lane is Online
[2009/06/28 9:49] Sonja Strom: Soro does
[2009/06/28 9:50] IM: Jamie Palisades:
[2009/06/28 9:50] Patroklus Murakami: shall i carry on?
[2009/06/28 9:50] Pip Torok: (please!)
[2009/06/28 9:50] Soro Dagostino: The proponent has te loor
[2009/06/28 9:50] Patroklus Murakami: well, the motion is a minimal way of getting us to where we want to be
[2009/06/28 9:51] Soro Dagostino: floor*
[2009/06/28 9:51] Patroklus Murakami: the first and third parts reflect what has actually happened. the RA approved a merger proposal developed by the Chancellor
[2009/06/28 9:51] Patroklus Murakami: hopefully, that is uncontroversial
[2009/06/28 9:51] Patroklus Murakami: the middle part is the most essential part though
[2009/06/28 9:52] Patroklus Murakami: our Constitution currently defines the RA as a body of democratically elected factions
[2009/06/28 9:52] Patroklus Murakami: it has some very involved rules about how to conduct elections and choose reps
[2009/06/28 9:52] Patroklus Murakami: none of this will apply to the AA reps joining us so, it seems to me, we need to make amendments to accomodate this
[2009/06/28 9:53] Patroklus Murakami: we have some discussion on previous proposals about the need (or not) for democratic elections to find additional interim reps
[2009/06/28 9:53] Jamie Palisades raises hand for a question, when it;s time
[2009/06/28 9:53] Patroklus Murakami: i hope that using the language from the UDHR will work for AA and for future mergers
[2009/06/28 9:54] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[2009/06/28 9:54] Patroklus Murakami: from the description of the process of choosing AAs reps it seems clear to me that they will be ‘freely chosen’ by the citizens of AA
[2009/06/28 9:54] Patroklus Murakami: so this amendment would cover the upcoming merger
[2009/06/28 9:55] Patroklus Murakami: it also sets the framework for future mergers i.e. the expectation that this will remain a democratic body that reflects the will of the citizens
[2009/06/28 9:55] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all for now, happy to answer questions if anyone has them
[2009/06/28 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (note the use of “chosen” and “representatives” on the UDHR: Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.)
[2009/06/28 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn also signs in to speak
[2009/06/28 9:57] Soro Dagostino: I believe Jaime had the floor next
[2009/06/28 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he does!
[2009/06/28 9:57] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[2009/06/28 9:57] Jamie Palisades: I will have a comment myself, and for that am content to wait until after the RA members, but I raised by hand to ask Pat a specific question
[2009/06/28 9:57] Jamie Palisades: as he suggested just now that this bill if adopted would affect the AA merger
[2009/06/28 9:57] Soro Dagostino: YOu have the floor.
[2009/06/28 9:58] Jamie Palisades: Sir, is it your believe thatm notwithstanding the laps of appeal time for the enacted AA merger offer bill, that a selection of finterim reps by AA that exactly confirms to the bill will still be constitutionally attackable, without your legislation?
[2009/06/28 9:59] Jamie Palisades: (and DO forgive the bad hotel internet typing, please )
[2009/06/28 10:00] Patroklus Murakami: well, i think that’s a question for the SC rather than for me In my opinion, yes, there would be a constitutional issue without my amendment or something that achieves the same ends
[2009/06/28 10:00] Jamie Palisades: And if your bill is enacted, as a CA, would that still leave the selection still open to challenge?
[2009/06/28 10:01] Sonja Strom raises hand
[2009/06/28 10:01] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[2009/06/28 10:02] Patroklus Murakami: well, anything is open to challenge. i think the real question is whether a challenge woudl succeed or not. i hope that my amendment would reduce the likelihood that AA reps joining the RA could be successfully challenged
[2009/06/28 10:02] Soro Dagostino: Answer is evasive
[2009/06/28 10:02] Soro Dagostino: oops, I am not the judge now.
[2009/06/28 10:03] Jamie Palisades: eh, I accept it, for what it;s worth, Your Honor
[2009/06/28 10:03] Patroklus Murakami: i’m sorry you think so soro
[2009/06/28 10:03] Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s honest
[2009/06/28 10:03] Patroklus Murakami: anything can be challenged
[2009/06/28 10:03] Patroklus Murakami: i can’t stop a challenge from happening
[2009/06/28 10:03] Pip Torok notes that the arbiter is the SC not this body
[2009/06/28 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn nods
[2009/06/28 10:03] Patroklus Murakami: the point is – does amendment make it more or less likely to succeed?
[2009/06/28 10:04] Patroklus Murakami: i can’t judge that, i’m not the SC! but i can give my opinion
[2009/06/28 10:05] Patroklus Murakami: in my opinion, this amendment would lessen the likelihood of a successful challenge
[2009/06/28 10:05] Soro Dagostino: Sonja — you have the floor
[2009/06/28 10:05] Patroklus Murakami: that’s why i’m putting it forward
[2009/06/28 10:05] Sonja Strom: I didn’t know what a CA is, but I think I figured it out: a Constitutional Amendment?
[2009/06/28 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[2009/06/28 10:05] Sonja Strom: Thanks
[2009/06/28 10:06] Soro Dagostino: Anything more?
[2009/06/28 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if I’m still considered to be in the queue… lol
[2009/06/28 10:07] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn .. your turn
[2009/06/28 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks!
[2009/06/28 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… just to make this clear…
[2009/06/28 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Unlike what has been said on this assembly earlier today,
[2009/06/28 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat’s proposed amendment is NOT to make the AA merger void,
[2009/06/28 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but rather,
[2009/06/28 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to DEFEND it
[2009/06/28 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why?
[2009/06/28 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because 2) some people, now or on the future, might claim that the merger bill is unconstitutional,
[2009/06/28 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since it creates (through a bill) a way for RA members to be appointed outside the normal election process.
[2009/06/28 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… the SC has not commented publicly on that (but on private â€” which I won’t repeat of course â€” they had some doubts )
[2009/06/28 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, to make SURE we can actually get +appointed interim RA members+, now and in the future,
[2009/06/28 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) Pat has introduced this amendment which allows, and I quote,
[2009/06/28 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The RA may be supplemented with interim additional representatives, freely chosen by a community joining the CDS”
[2009/06/28 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It doesn’t say HOW they’re chosen â€” that’s left for the merger bill(s) to decide
[2009/06/28 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just allows it to happen!
[2009/06/28 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, please,
[2009/06/28 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: when you vote on this,
[2009/06/28 10:11] Pip Torok raises hand re gwyns statement
[2009/06/28 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: don’t see it as a “power struggle” on “who writes the nicest bills”
[2009/06/28 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is actually what this is degenerating into.
[2009/06/28 10:11] Soro Dagostino: Pip — noted
[2009/06/28 10:11] josephine Brouwer is Offline
[2009/06/28 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Look at it, please, on what we actually need to make sure that the merger bill is NOT attacked any more, neither today, nor in the future.
[2009/06/28 10:12] Delia Lake wants to put into the record that anything any SC member says unofficially is said only as a private citizen and in no way should be interpreted to be an SC opinion.
[2009/06/28 10:12] Soro Dagostino: It may be a while
[2009/06/28 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Your time is up Gywn.
[2009/06/28 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Delia, but… on the other hand, SC members, as citizens, can definitely vent their opinions to the legislators to have them consider ‘hints’ as good opportunities to rewrite legislation *better*
[2009/06/28 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Unless a vote of the membbers overules the chaitr.
[2009/06/28 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Soro.
[2009/06/28 10:13] Soro Dagostino: Pip
[2009/06/28 10:13] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hand again to note place in queue after RA members
[2009/06/28 10:14] Pip Torok: I say this … “freely chosen” means they are FREE to choose according to their whim … We the CDS simply CANNOT say how they do or shd do this … fuinished
[2009/06/28 10:14] Soro Dagostino: Noted Jamie
[2009/06/28 10:14] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[2009/06/28 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pip and agrees with that interpretation
[2009/06/28 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the amendment just refers back to the UDHR, using the same words; it doesn’t ‘enforce’ any specific form of ‘freely choosing’ the representatives)
[2009/06/28 10:15] Soro Dagostino: Jamie has the floor
[2009/06/28 10:16] Jamie Palisades: Thanks – looks around – did I jump ahead of anyone?
[2009/06/28 10:16] Soro Dagostino: No.
[2009/06/28 10:16] Jamie Palisades: OK, first: – only unusually large mergers would create an RA representation issue. When we grow slowly and organically, like say with the 6 or so new citizens we will pick up on the Monastery sim, the newcomers simply become enfranchised at the next regular RA election. A larger incoming body, like AA’s 60 or so, may ask to be represented form the outset. They did.
[2009/06/28 10:17] Jamie Palisades: so we are in an unusual case
[2009/06/28 10:17] Jamie Palisades: god willing
[2009/06/28 10:17] Jamie Palisades: at least while I;m serving …
[2009/06/28 10:17] Jamie Palisades: As for a constitutional amendment, I originally suggested one myself, but one that would more clearly protect legitimate the Al-Andalus (AA) transaction.
[2009/06/28 10:17] Jamie Palisades: During the debates on our original merger offer act, which the CSDF faction opposed, there were quite a few comments — even several meetings of impassionated speeches, and then later complaints of being cut off in mid-speech, etc. — about the exact way in which AA would designate its transitional RA representatives.
[2009/06/28 10:18] Jamie Palisades: So there was some consideration concern about opposition, at the time, and future attacks
[2009/06/28 10:18] Jamie Palisades: I;m not going to repeat the bad feelings that went back and forth, bu read for yourself if you wish
[2009/06/28 10:18] Jamie Palisades: I then offered a constitutional amendment, which explicitly legitimated transactions of the type of AA. It included clauses to make it explicit that a selection process of the kind AA proposes to use for interim RA reps is constitutitonal. Our senators Gwyneth, Patroklaus and Sonja blocked it.
[2009/06/28 10:19] Jamie Palisades: The AA merger bill passed, and the date for constitutitional challenge expired. So acts taken properly pursuant to it and not OTHERWISE in violation of our laws SHOULD BY OUR LAWS be beyond reproach.
[2009/06/28 10:19] Jamie Palisades: Now Patroklus has offered another amendment
[2009/06/28 10:19] Jamie Palisades: several, including Sonja, posted correctly that no constitutional amendment is needed FOR completing the AA merger.
[2009/06/28 10:19] Jamie Palisades: Let’s not be confused about the text of the amendment. Its words seem benign. AA’s plan is in fact to send us “freely chosen” reps! As Pip said — no risk there. If the SC acts in accordance with normal rules of interpretation So it SHOULD not create a basis for attack. To be blunt, I believe Pat is trying to help us, here.
[2009/06/28 10:19] Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie
[2009/06/28 10:20] Jamie Palisades: Sigh … Let’s not be confused about the text of the amendment. Its words seem benign. AA’s plan is in fact to send us “freely chosen” reps! As Pip said — no risk there. If the SC acts in accordance with normal rules of interpretation So it SHOULD not create a basis for attack. To be blunt, I believe Pat is trying to help us, here.
[2009/06/28 10:20] Jamie Palisades: oops, key mistake sorry
[2009/06/28 10:20] Jamie Palisades: Yet I still fear the help. The new legislation could STILL create new avenues of appeal. From a LEGISLATIVE point of view, why rush to fix what is not broken?
[2009/06/28 10:20] Jamie Palisades: With respect, the repeated references by some RA members to other lengthy parts of the UDHP have the sound of a warrior happily and lovingly clicking the safety off on their rifle. After all, as one former dean likes to say “the SC can do anything”.
[2009/06/28 10:20] Jamie Palisades: To sum up in simple words: if I knew with certainty that the original opponents of this merger were NOT going to use this new law to try and unseat the transitional AA reps … I’d have no problem with it.
[2009/06/28 10:21] Jamie Palisades: done, and apologies for the bad comm problems
[2009/06/28 10:21] Patroklus Murakami raises a hand
[2009/06/28 10:21] Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/06/28 10:21] Patroklus Murakami: we did not “oppose the merger” and it’s really bad form to assign that to us
[2009/06/28 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, jamie, that was really uncalled for.
[2009/06/28 10:22] Patroklus Murakami: we opposed elements of the proposed agreement (or rather one rep did)
[2009/06/28 10:22] Patroklus Murakami: and we opposed some of the terms of the constitutional amendment because we were worried they would undermine our democracy
[2009/06/28 10:22] Jamie Palisades apologies sincerely for any misstatement; the record’s all in the public domain
[2009/06/28 10:22] Patroklus Murakami: we can disagree but let’s not misrepresent sincerely-held views
[2009/06/28 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* next
[2009/06/28 10:23] Patroklus Murakami: this amendment is not a ‘trojan horse’ as you seem to think
[2009/06/28 10:23] Soro Dagostino: NOted
[2009/06/28 10:23] Patroklus Murakami: it’s not intended to leave a loophole for a future challenge
[2009/06/28 10:23] Patroklus Murakami: it’s intended to close one
[2009/06/28 10:23] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[2009/06/28 10:23] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn
[2009/06/28 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just wish to reinforce two things. One, the AA merger bill is passed. The SC has not found any faults with it. It goes ahead without question. Nothing we decide here and today, at least what’s on the agenda, will not change the AA merger bill.
[2009/06/28 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope that is crystal clear and without any further doubts
[2009/06/28 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no more misinterpretations
[2009/06/28 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please
[2009/06/28 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The second point is that obviously the SC can accept unconstitutional laws; it’s up to them, obviously, to accept them or not.
[2009/06/28 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That doesn’t mean that we, as RA members, aren’t obliged to make sure that we uphold the Constitution as well
[2009/06/28 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… to make sure that *future* mergers,
[2009/06/28 10:25] Soro Dagostino: Is that a challange to the AA Merger?
[2009/06/28 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: do NOT exploit the “precedent” of pushing RA representatives into the RA *without any constitutional amendment*
[2009/06/28 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: NO.
[2009/06/28 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please.
[2009/06/28 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The past is the past, Soro
[2009/06/28 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Approved is approved
[2009/06/28 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s think about the FUTURE.
[2009/06/28 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the FUTURE mergers, we’re proposing to introduce the possibility of RA members getting freely chosen from their communities for a merger.
[2009/06/28 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And make that part of the Constitution.
[2009/06/28 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any other misinterpretations of my words will make me VERY angry
[2009/06/28 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, thank you
[2009/06/28 10:27] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready for the question?
[2009/06/28 10:28] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[2009/06/28 10:28] Jamie Palisades: On that last point i think we agree completely senator
[2009/06/28 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good
[2009/06/28 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, I’m ready for the question hehe
[2009/06/28 10:28] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/06/28 10:29] Patroklus Murakami: of the constitutional amendment? aye
[2009/06/28 10:29] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/06/28 10:29] Sonja Strom: aye
[2009/06/28 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye.
[2009/06/28 10:30] Soro Dagostino: There are two senators’ with Seve day votes
[2009/06/28 10:31] Soro Dagostino: for the record I vote No.
[2009/06/28 10:31] Pip Torok: does that affect the two thirds majority iyo?
[2009/06/28 10:31] Pip Torok: ah …
[2009/06/28 10:31] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[2009/06/28 10:31] Patroklus Murakami: yes pip. one more vote in favour needed to pass
[2009/06/28 10:31] Jamie Palisades: mm – – either of the others absent can vote yes
[2009/06/28 10:31] Sonja Strom raises hand.
[2009/06/28 10:31] Soro Dagostino: Yes Sonja
[2009/06/28 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, is the voting over?…
[2009/06/28 10:32] Sonja Strom: I would like to propose that a vote against would not really be a vote to “block” the amendement, but that it would be a vote not in favor of adopting the amendement.
[2009/06/28 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, sorry â€” i got some lag
[2009/06/28 10:33] Sonja Strom: Thanks
[2009/06/28 10:33] Sonja Strom: This is a matter of interpretation, but that is how I see it.
[2009/06/28 10:33] Pip Torok thought it wd have been the general interpretation …
[2009/06/28 10:33] Patroklus Murakami: that’s how i would take a no vote sonja but, it’s really up to RA members to say what they intend
[2009/06/28 10:33] Sonja Strom:
[2009/06/28 10:33] Soro Dagostino: It is a constitutional amendment.
[2009/06/28 10:33] Jamie Palisades: (maybe a language difference? not sure I see the distinction. A vote against is a vote to not do something. No?)
[2009/06/28 10:34] Soro Dagostino: That is the understanding of the chair.
[2009/06/28 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A vote of no is that it doesn’t pass; anyone can reintroduce const. amendments in the future
[2009/06/28 10:34] Pip Torok: depends on your macchiavellian / non-m caste of mind jamie!
[2009/06/28 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/06/28 10:34] Soro Dagostino: Agreed
[2009/06/28 10:35] Danton Sideways: Bye all, I’ll be running along now
[2009/06/28 10:35] Sonja Strom: bye Danton
[2009/06/28 10:35] Soro Dagostino: Ciao.
[2009/06/28 10:35] Patroklus Murakami: bye danton
[2009/06/28 10:35] Delia Lake: bye Danton
[2009/06/28 10:35] Pip Torok: bye danton!
[2009/06/28 10:35] Jamie Palisades: Ta Danton. Well, in any case, I deeply appreciate the clarifications here, ladies and gentlemen; we owe it to our merger partners to know where they stand. We’ll see how the vote comes out. Frankly, if it does not pass this time, the new RA probably should return to the issue — personally I would like NOT to be in the position again of negotiating a merger without some clarity on those points.
[2009/06/28 10:36] Soro Dagostino: We have some additional items on the agenda. Is someone here to be the proponent?
[2009/06/28 10:36] Soro Dagostino: From The SC?
[2009/06/28 10:37] Delia Lake: my apologies but Claude put out these agenda items and he is not here
[2009/06/28 10:37] Soro Dagostino: Should they be postponed?
[2009/06/28 10:38] Delia Lake: I would recommend that, yes
[2009/06/28 10:38] Soro Dagostino: Chair will accept that as a Motion . . . RA Memeber?
[2009/06/28 10:38] Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/06/28 10:39] Soro Dagostino: Heh! you moved
[2009/06/28 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine in postponing, assuming that only Claude can do that presentations…
[2009/06/28 10:39] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/06/28 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn is happy to second Pip
[2009/06/28 10:39] Soro Dagostino:
[2009/06/28 10:39] Pip Torok: lol!
[2009/06/28 10:39] Patroklus Murakami: thirded
[2009/06/28 10:39] Soro Dagostino: Now, all in =favor?
[2009/06/28 10:39] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/06/28 10:39] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2009/06/28 10:40] Sonja Strom: aye
[2009/06/28 10:40] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/06/28 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2009/06/28 10:40] Soro Dagostino: ooops
[2009/06/28 10:40] Soro Dagostino: sorry
[2009/06/28 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry! that was an aye for postponing ))
[2009/06/28 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn was not fast enough hehe
[2009/06/28 10:40] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried
[2009/06/28 10:40] Sonja Strom: (not an aye for opposing? lol)
[2009/06/28 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no no, Sonja!!)
[2009/06/28 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/06/28 10:41] Sonja Strom:
[2009/06/28 10:41] Soro Dagostino: Any further business?
[2009/06/28 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one clarification really…
[2009/06/28 10:41] Soro Dagostino: Yes?
[2009/06/28 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie suggested that the territory accession of the AA would happen between July 7th and 16th
[2009/06/28 10:42] Soro Dagostino: Yes?
[2009/06/28 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The agenda somehow mentions we should “vote” on it,
[2009/06/28 10:42] Jamie Palisades: must be a typo
[2009/06/28 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I would like to suggest that we skip the voting, this is an executive procedure really and should be best left in the hands of the Chancellor
[2009/06/28 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Jamie, that’s what I thought
[2009/06/28 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m clarified
[2009/06/28 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2009/06/28 10:43] Soro Dagostino: It is. Late nights on the computer.
[2009/06/28 10:43] Pip Torok: nuits blanches ….
[2009/06/28 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok, just wondering, I don’t want to get accused of deliberately skipping an important vote and trying to delay the merger further
[2009/06/28 10:44] Sonja Strom: lol
[2009/06/28 10:44] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2009/06/28 10:44] Jamie Palisades: Well, in case it’s not obvious, as the executive charged with operational enactment of the merger, my job was and is to deliver certainty as much as possible One hurdle passed in today’s meeting … another is when the effective date occurs. So we hope to time its effectuive date for whatever date LEAST perturbs the RA election
[2009/06/28 10:44] Sonja Strom: Thank you for that
[2009/06/28 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as Linden Lab is not pushing sims around during *election day*, I’m fine with any date
[2009/06/28 10:45] Soro Dagostino: Are we ready to adjoourn.?
[2009/06/28 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please
[2009/06/28 10:45] Pip Torok: so move
[2009/06/28 10:45] Sonja Strom: second
[2009/06/28 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s adjourn! hehe
[2009/06/28 10:45] Jamie Palisades: hhaha oh god, spare us THAT Gwyn
[2009/06/28 10:45] Soro Dagostino: Moved and seconded
[2009/06/28 10:45] Soro Dagostino: In favor
[2009/06/28 10:45] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2009/06/28 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[2009/06/28 10:45] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/06/28 10:45] Sonja Strom: aye
[2009/06/28 10:46] Jamie Palisades: Informally, FWIW, I believe deeply in the UDHP, authored post-WWII by a committe chaired by a fellow citizen of mine … but am pleased to not have it as a hammer over the merger’s head.
[2009/06/28 10:46] Soro Dagostino: Someone poke Pat
[2009/06/28 10:46] Patroklus Murakami: i already said aye!
[2009/06/28 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat voted “aye”… there is some chat lag sometimes
[2009/06/28 10:46] Soro Dagostino: Ah, sorry — missed it.
[2009/06/28 10:46] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, the amendment hasn’t passed/failed yet
[2009/06/28 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, since the SC declared the merger to be constitutionally sound, there was no doubt any more.
[2009/06/28 10:47] Soro Dagostino: We stand ajourened
[2009/06/28 10:47] Jamie Palisades: my need to have things clarififed, Pat, has been served by the record here either way
[2009/06/28 10:47] Sonja Strom: But it should not be a hammer over the merger’s head anyway…
[2009/06/28 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, a lot could be said about it, Sonja
[2009/06/28 10:48] Sonja Strom: They are not incompatible at all so far as I see.
[2009/06/28 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was the SC’s decision too, Sonja. So…
[2009/06/28 10:48] Jamie Palisades: Indeed, SOnja — note, though that if somethign abomniable happened — say, Al Andalus elected only to permit persons of Asian heritage to participate — that would NOT be beyond SC challenge — because that’s not a determinstic result of the enacted bill;
[2009/06/28 10:48] Soro Dagostino: Well folk — I have been here since 4:30 — gone!
[2009/06/28 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any bill that doesn’t go against either the Constitution or the UNHR and is validated by the SC as not doing so, doesn’t need to “fear” anything
[2009/06/28 10:49] Sonja Strom: I think probably you are right about that Jamie, but would they do that?
[2009/06/28 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’re right on that, Jamie. Technically, yes, the SC could oversee the ‘selection’ procedure
[2009/06/28 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s up to them, not to us

Permalink.

RA Meeting 12 July 2009

RA Transcript: July 12, 2009
by Brian Livingston » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:46 pm
Note: This transcript is in two parts. I had to leave the meeting before its conclusion, so this portion of the transcript ends at 10:39 AM SLT. Soro recorded the remainder of the meeting and will post it as soon as possible.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh do we have a quorum?
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no ty
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: we are quorate
[9:22] Brian Livingston: e-mail sent
[9:22] Pip Torok: apparently yes
[9:22] Sonja Strom: Thanks Brian
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks,. Brian!
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: i nominate brian as leader pro-tem
[9:22] Brian Livingston: Not it!
[9:22] Brian Livingston hides
[9:22] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:23] Pip Torok: as bad as the speaker of the UK Commons!
[9:23] Brian Livingston is easing into RA retirement
[9:23] Pip Torok: (he has to be dragged to the Speaker’s chair)
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: sonja/pip. can we drag either of you to the chair? please!
[9:24] Brian Livingston: Hmm, but alas, I’ll do it to keep the meeting movign if so requested
[9:24] Pip Torok: sonja?
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: ty brian!
[9:24] Brian Livingston has a busy day and needs to get a moving :p
[9:25] Brian Livingston: So, hmm, it’s been a while since i’ve chaired…
[9:25] Sonja Strom: I will do it to get the discussion started.
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: goodie, I second brian as pro-tem LRA
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:25] Pip Torok: great!
[9:25] Patroklus Murakami: we have a motion to make brian leader pro-tem. we should vote on that?
[9:26] Sonja Strom: yes
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami is unsure of new rules
[9:26] Pip Torok: i vote aye
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
[9:26] Brian Livingston: abstain :p
[9:26] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:26] Brian Livingston: Ok then…
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: gratz bri you’re it!
[9:26] Brian Livingston: Could everone assent to this meeting and their remarks being recorded and published as a matter of public record?
[9:26] Sonja Strom: We out-voted you Brian.
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: i assent
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I consent to being recorded.
[9:26] Sonja Strom: I assent
[9:26] Pip Torok: i consent to be recorded
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Sure, I consent as well
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Ok, the agenda is located on the forums here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2493
[9:27] Pip Torok: i have an agenda copy if anyone wants it
[9:27] Brian Livingston: are there any other changes, besides the LRA’s corretion of a typographical error on item III
[9:27] Brian Livingston: ?
[9:28] Pip Torok: nope
[9:28] Brian Livingston looks around the room
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: no
[9:28] Brian Livingston: Ok then, I’m proposign we accept this agenda and continue the meeting, second?
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: second
[9:28] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:28] Brian Livingston: Votes please?
[9:28] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:28] Pip Torok: aye
[9:29] Brian Livingston: Gwyn?
[9:29] Brian Livingston votes aye
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:29] Brian Livingston: Wonderful, 5-0. Next item…
[9:29] Brian Livingston: Do we have any speakers for any items on torday’s agenda?
[9:30] Rose Springvale: i’m just here to make an announcment about the party….
[9:30] Brian Livingston: Noted
[9:30] Brian Livingston: Ok then, moving along. Item d is moot at this point, as this is the last session of this RA.
[9:30] Brian Livingston: err, last meeting of the term of this RA
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[9:31] Brian Livingston: Regarding item e, 7 day votes, I haven’t seen any request, but the LRA may have gotten a request from Cindy, so I am goign to have to defer to him upon his return
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh… wait-..
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:31] Brian Livingston waits
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, sorry, you’re right
[9:31] Brian Livingston: We’re good ?
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: our voting dates are soooo confusing, but I guess the 26th would be the first session of the *next* term
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: aah no. next RA does not get sworn in until august gwyn
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in that case,
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can meet on the 26th
[9:33] Brian Livingston: Hmm, so I guess there is the possibility of anther RA session. Traditioanlly we haven’t met as a lame duck session however
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we can discuss it hehe
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with skipping it
[9:33] Sonja Strom: me too
[9:33] Rose Springvale: sorry all, have to go to rl. see you later!
[9:34] Brian Livingston: I would suggest not planning on the lame duck session unless there is an extraordinary event that requires RA attention immediately
[9:34] Sonja Strom: ok Rose
[9:34] Brian Livingston: Thoughts?
[9:34] Pip Torok: agree
[9:34] Sonja Strom: agree
[9:34] You decline Episode Beach from A group member named Dominick Manatiso.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn agreess to
[9:34] Brian Livingston: Pat?
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: agree
[9:35] Brian Livingston: Ok, let’s move on. I don’t see the Chancellor present, so I propose postponing Item II
[9:35] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:35] Brian Livingston: Votes?
[9:35] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:35] Pip Torok: aye
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one second please
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: mmm. we don’t need jamie here to discuss the AA merger
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: and progress on that
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[9:36] Brian Livingston: True, but item II is the Chancellor’s report. We could discus the AA merger during item III or IV for that matter
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand that point II is to discuss the *report*
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: brb phone
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Brian, I think you’re right.
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, no chancellor, no report…
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye to postpone as well.
[9:37] Pip Torok: aye
[9:37] Brian Livingston votes aye
[9:38] Brian Livingston: Pat?
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: afk
[9:38] Brian Livingston: Ok, moving along to Item III: genearl Master Plan. We’re slated for general discussion until 9:50a.
[9:39] Brian Livingston: Are there any speakers for this item?
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmpf
[9:39] Brian Livingston: Err, General*
[9:39] Sonja Strom: I would like to speak on this item.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Sonja!
[9:39] Brian Livingston: The floor is yours Sonja
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, you’re RA â€” hyou can always speak hehe
[9:39] Brian Livingston: True
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Quite some time ago a Workgroup was formed in the Guild to come up with a revision of the General Master Plan.
[9:40] Sonja Strom: I was a member of this Workgroup.
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[9:40] Sonja Strom: We had a series of meetings and a pretty big discussion in the CDS Forum.
[9:41] Sonja Strom: A lot of work was put into making various maps and plans, and comparing them as possibilities.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: I feel the Workgroup was able to bring all this together into a really positive possible revision of the General Master Plan.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: This happened somewhere around two months ago.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: But then, so far as I know, nothing more was done with it.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: The General Master Plan has not been revised at all from this work,
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The NG hasn’t met in over a month, right?
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:43] Sonja Strom: right Gwyn, thanks
[9:43] Brian Livingston: It seemed from the last forum thread on the subject that there was still work to be completed regardign terrain, unless I misread the post
[9:44] Brian Livingston: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2403
[9:44] Sonja Strom: and so far as I know there has not any movement in a direction of actually incorporating any of this work into the Plan.
[9:44] Sonja Strom: Thanks
[9:45] Brian Livingston: So, what is our proposed method of recitfyign hte situation? Reach out to the NG and request an update regardign the status of the GMP updates?
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely, the work should not be wasted.
[9:45] Pip Torok: unless we know that work is completed regarding terrain we cant very well endorse it
[9:45] Brian Livingston: Agreed Pip, Gwyn.
[9:45] Sonja Strom: What terrain work needs to be done?
[9:46] Pip Torok: can i suggest sonja looks over the transcript and come up with a recommendation to endorse?
[9:46] Sonja Strom: ok, I will read through it
[9:47] Brian Livingston: Unfortuantely i’m not a member of the GMP WG so I am nto tthat familiar with the workload and tasks yet to be completed. It appears from the last post that the overall GMP terrain needs to be reviewed, but again, I’m not 100% sure on that interpretation/
[9:47] Brian Livingston: Thanks Sonja
[9:48] Brian Livingston: Hmm, are there any other discussion points to be raised in regards to Item III, the General Master Plan?
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: AA merger?
[9:48] Pip Torok: i take it the latest version incorportaes Monastery and option 2? of the AA merger?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the last time I saw the GMP, it didn’t
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Monastery was ‘suggested’ right?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also… *how* will the AA sims fit? I didn’t read the forums so I don’t know when and where gthat will happen
[9:50] Pip Torok: so if we dont know these we cant yet even tjink about endorsing!
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: i think the AA sims will be relocated near us in due course (and perhaps we have to move the whole estate to accommodate that?)
[9:50] Sonja Strom: Hi zaphod
[9:51] zaphod Enoch: hi there
[9:51] Brian Livingston: They’re being combined to the north of CN, at some point after the election, not sure on the date.
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello zaphod!
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Brian, thank you
[9:51] Brian Livingston: Hiya zaphod, please consent to your remarks being recorded and published as part of the public record of this meeting
[9:51] Pip Torok: but until we know the proposed fit .. how can we endorse the present GMP?
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at Sonja’s forum post
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: i thought the RA had already approved three possible options for the relocation of AA? wasn’t the final decision down to them?
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, down to them
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus my question
[9:53] Brian Livingston: I think we need to consult with the NG regarding incorporating the AA merger into the GMP.
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: don’t know if we’ve heard a decision from AA though…
[9:53] Pip Torok: agree
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is, I’m not sure if the RA was ever told what the final decision was
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps that was for the Chancellor report today
[9:53] Pip Torok: i definitely remember nothing from them to the RA
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Brian, you’re right too
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The *new* layhout should be updated on the official GMP
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *layout
[9:54] Brian Livingston: I thoguht I recall something in the forums, but not positive.
[9:55] Sonja Strom: The final location for the AA sims was decided by AA and told to us in their Letter of Acceptance.
[9:55] Sonja Strom: The RA left the decision to them…
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok thanks, Sonja
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that’s settled then? Good!
[9:55] Sonja Strom: and they chose option #2, that is having the southernmost AA sim –
[9:55] Sonja Strom: the one with the libraries on it –
[9:55] Pip Torok: fort the record what WAS their decision?
[9:56] Pip Torok: right! …
[9:56] Sonja Strom: come in on the north side of Colonia Nova.
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: i asked rose, before she went, how many new citizens would be joining us and how many RA reps that would make…
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe thanks for asking that, Pip â€” I remember seeing Jamie’s post, but besides ‘acceptance’, I don’t remember
[9:56] Brian Livingston: Either way, we are past the tiem frame for this discussion item, so I would propose that we reach out to the NG to request an update on the status of the GMP and the positioning of AA in the plan.
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: and in which configuration?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: depending on the final count, it could be 50 or 60 or more new citizens. and 5/6 new RA reps
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right Brian
[9:57] zaphod Enoch: may i ask what gmp is
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: General Master Plan
[9:57] Pip Torok: general master plan
[9:57] zaphod Enoch: okay
[9:57] zaphod Enoch: thanks
[9:57] Brian Livingston: General Master Plan, it is the blue print for future expansion for our community
[9:57] Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, did I answer your question about the configuration?
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the official ‘expansion’ map for the CDS
[9:57] Pip Torok: you did
[9:58] Brian Livingston: Thoughts on my proposed actions?
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Barely, Sonja, but I’m sure that when the Guild publishes the updated map, we’ll know how it will look like
[9:58] zaphod Enoch: the ones i could see down in the sandbox ?
[9:58] Pip Torok: yes xaphod
[9:58] Sonja Strom: There are 3d maps in the sandbox…
[9:58] zaphod Enoch: thanks
[9:58] Sonja Strom: The option that was chosen is the middle one there in the display,
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Option #2.
[9:59] zaphod Enoch: okay
[9:59] Brian Livingston: If there are no objections, I move to consult with the NG regarding the status of the GMP and the addition of AA’s positioning into the final plan, and continue on to Discussion point IV
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, that helps too, Sonja!
[9:59] zaphod Enoch: i have examined them
[9:59] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you brian, I agree â€” ‘aye’ on the motion
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Yes, I have not yet had time to read all the way through that transcript.
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: aye
[9:59] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:59] Brian Livingston: Aye
[10:00] Brian Livingston: COntinuing to Point IV, Economic Development, I’ll open the floor to discussion for the alloted tiem period
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: can we stick with AA though as a topic?
[10:01] Brian Livingston: If we are concerning the discussion with economic development ,I don’t see an problem with discussing AA
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve updated with what i know about the political situation. number of new citizens, RA reps. does anyone else have any news on the merger?
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn would naturally second that
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a pity Rose had to leave
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: ty gwyn, brian
[10:01] Pip Torok: hi Soro!
[10:01] Sonja Strom: Hi Soro
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro!!! welcome!
[10:01] Brian Livingston: Pat, I believe that the Chancellor is the natural avenue for answers on that question, we should request a written report given his absence today and point hat as a question for the report
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: hi soro
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: sorry — ‘puter problems.
[10:02] Brian Livingston: Hello Mr. LRA!
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: I hope you had a great meeting
[10:02] Brian Livingston tosses the scepter and LRA crown to Soro
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re here, and that’s what counts
[10:02] Patroklus Murakami: i agree brian. but, since jamie isn’t here to tell us anything, does anyone else have news?
[10:02] Pip Torok: (lol)
[10:02] Sonja Strom: I have something more about the last item.
[10:02] zaphod Enoch: may i ask what lra is ?
[10:02] Brian Livingston: Leader of the Representative Assembly
[10:03] zaphod Enoch: okie thanks
[10:03] Pip Torok: leader of the representatives assebly
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: More the referree
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Keeping order . . .
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: And keeping folk in turn
[10:03] zaphod Enoch: okay now i know thanks soro
[10:03] Pip Torok: (sort of traffic-cop)
[10:03] Brian Livingston: I’ll remind the assembly that discussions durign this point should be regarding economic development, regardless of the subject or region we are discussing.
[10:03] Sonja Strom: I found the acceptance letter from Al Andalus in the second post here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2448
[10:03] Sonja Strom: In that letter their choice is given in their point Nr. 2.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah excellent Sonja… I had missed the *choice*
[10:04] Brian Livingston: Thanks for the update Sonja The link cleares up some prior questions
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you !
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does
[10:05] Pip Torok: wd it be possible for us to endorse the GMP then?
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Since I have no transcrip log — can someone tell me where the body is?
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Agenda wise.
[10:05] Pip Torok: item III open discussion
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: TY
[10:05] Brian Livingston: We’re on discussion point IV, CDS Economic Development, althoguh we are clsoing in on the end of the alloted tiem for such discussion
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that this item be a general news sharing and discussion item regarding the AA merger given that we don’t have jamie to upated us under item II
[10:06] Sonja Strom: I would like to bring up something in this area.
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: and that we extend the discussion time, if needs be
[10:06] Brian Livingston: Either way, we have exceeded the time alloted for points III and IV combined and then some.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe true… mmmh
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d still like to hear any further news on AA
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t see anyone here for items V or VI….
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Besides ‘rumours’. For instance, yesterday I was presented to Stui and someone mentioned he’d be one of the appointed representatives. It would be nice to ‘show them the ropes’ so to speak
[10:07] Brian Livingston: If there is news to be reported, sure, but without the Chancellor or the EO or AA, or a rep from the NG, I don’t see much new news persay.
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to hear from sonja…
[10:08] Pip Torok: maybe the AA reps will all come tonights party …?
[10:08] Brian Livingston: Sonja?
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope they will
[10:08] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:09] Sonja Strom: A couple of weeks ago I sent a notecard to our Chancellor about an offer being made to the CDS by MunichSL.
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm… I have a stupid idea… what about turning the July 26th meeting into a ‘welcome AA reps’ event? We wouldn’t discuss anything, just tell them *how* we discuss things, show them the rules for discussion, etc
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry â€” I type too slowly…)
[10:09] Sonja Strom: He told me he would talk about it with the RA today, but he is not here…
[10:09] Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, can we talk about that after this?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my apologies, yes, of course
[10:10] Pip Torok: an idea gwyn … how about an “adopt-an-AA-rep strategy?
[10:10] You decline Cuddlers Cove Beach Club , Glen Island Beach (217, 241, 22) from A group member named Mike00 Carnell.
[10:10] Brian Livingston: Sonja has the floor
[10:10] Sonja Strom: Pip, could we talk about that in a few minutes?
[10:10] Pip Torok: ok
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: I see you don’t need me as a gate keeper! LOL
[10:11] Sonja Strom: The offer that was made was for the CDS to have a consulate exchange with Munich in SL.
[10:11] Sonja Strom: MunichSL is a 3d model of RL Munich, so their buildings are like the RL ones.
[10:11] Sonja Strom: They are offering us a very nice spot there,
[10:12] Sonja Strom: and would like to have a Consulate in Neufreistadt.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Who would be the consulate person
[10:12] Sonja Strom: These would basically be information centers.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Isn’t that a Chancellor’s job
[10:13] Sonja Strom: zaphod is involved in their community as well as ours, and he has offered to help with this…
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Like was done at the last exhibition
[10:13] Sonja Strom: he has started work on a new building for it.
[10:13] Patroklus Murakami: sounds good. great collaboration probably for the chancellor to take forward as soro suggests
[10:13] Sonja Strom: I am very much in favour of this effort, and would like to see it go forward.
[10:13] Pip Torok: agree
[10:13] Sonja Strom: I gave this information to the Chancellor two weeks ago,
[10:14] zaphod Enoch: may i say something to that
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: You have the floor
[10:14] Sonja Strom: and he told me he would talk with us here in the RA at this meeting, and asked that zaphod be here for our discussion.
[10:14] zaphod Enoch: about my ideas
[10:14] Sonja Strom: But, unfortunately, Jamie is not here so I am bringing it up.
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:15] zaphod Enoch: is it my word now
[10:15] zaphod Enoch: ?
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:15] zaphod Enoch: thanks
[10:17] zaphod Enoch: as a citizien of munich sl and a resident of the sl i like spots as yours and munich, because the people in both worlds share the same ides of creating worlds and the first time i set my virtual foot on nfs i was really excited
[10:17] zaphod Enoch: this a sim i like very much because they are my world
[10:19] zaphod Enoch: after i had got in contact with sonja and rose and got the possibility to change the interieur of the biergarten, with the allowance of moon and all the others i thought it would be a good idea to have kinda gateway between the sims
[10:20] zaphod Enoch: so i just made the offer after i have spoken to the munich owner
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: who is?
[10:21] zaphod Enoch: if so to speak i do belong to the iner circle of the town representatives, where the owner is Lislo Mensing
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: ty
[10:23] zaphod Enoch: the others responsible for the town are Ralfi Beaumont a one for almost everything, Annabella Biedermann organising the big events, Soscho Aeon buildings and there textures, and me doing the events and some smaller buildings
[10:25] zaphod Enoch: so i thought it would be a good idea to give people the chance to exchange within the neufreistadt sims and the munich (muenchen) sl sim
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:25] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we ask the Chancellor to get in touch with zaphod at his earliest convenient time
[10:25] zaphod Enoch: finished for now
[10:25] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly agree!
[10:25] Sonja Strom: Thanks zaphod.
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: yes, ty zaphod
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: TY zaphod.
[10:26] zaphod Enoch: thanks gwyneth
[10:26] Sonja Strom: Does the RA support having this exchange of Consulates?
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most definitely, I do )
[10:26] zaphod Enoch: and thanks for all the support so far
[10:26] Pip Torok: i so move
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If that’s a motion, Sonja, I second it!
[10:27] Sonja Strom: It seems to me we can simply state our preference and intention.
[10:27] Sonja Strom: I support it fully.
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I support it fully as well.
[10:27] zaphod Enoch: thanks sonja
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, I’ve been to SL Munich, mostly to watch the architecture )
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: i support an exchange of consulates, as an individual citizen, but i think it’s up to the Exec branch to deal with
[10:28] Sonja Strom: Is there any RA member who has reservations about it?
[10:28] Brian Livingston: I’d be interested in seeign the proposal before really comittign either way
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: I agree with Pat and Brian.
[10:28] Patroklus Murakami: and i have every confidence that jamie will attend to this as soon as he is able to
[10:28] Sonja Strom: Patroklus, I agree with you, but our Executive told me he wanted to bring this topic to the RA today.
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, very likely. It might also be a model for further consulates….
[10:28] Pip Torok: just one … can we request the visiting consulates to respect the theme of the sim in which the consulate resides?
[10:29] Sonja Strom: Then he himself did not come, but zaphod did…
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, good point, Pip
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: again, preserving the theme (and noting exceptions) is up to the Exec…
[10:29] Sonja Strom: The building being made for this consulate by zaphod is in the sandbox on CN if you would like to see it.
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: I think we need his thoughts and analysis.
[10:29] Sonja Strom: It is a fachwerk house.
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh…. nice lol
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: it’s a shame jamie couldn’t be here but… he may have had difficulties logging in. lots of ppl have had today
[10:30] Pip Torok: yes … but a delicate inter-regional matter dont you think?
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: I did.
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t foresee any problems with SLMunich hehe
[10:30] Brian Livingston: But do they have a football club?
[10:30] Brian Livingston:
[10:30] zaphod Enoch: i do have the full responsibility of the owner to talk here for munich sl
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: I do not either. But, I think we need to hear the Chancellor.
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: LOL! i should hope so brian
[10:31] Pip Torok: mmm a fachwek on the CN sandbox?
[10:31] zaphod Enoch: nope we do noot have
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to ask how the football league is doing, but, alas, that would be part of the Chancellor report, not up to the RA to look into it
[10:31] Sonja Strom: I would like to make it clear I am not saying anything at all bad about our Chancellor, only that he told me he wanted to bring this issue up here and asked that zaphod be here for the discussion, and now he is not here so I am bringing it up for him.
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn & Sonja — would you put the topic on the forums and ask for a response from the chancellor?
[10:32] Brian Livingston: Folks, it is 10:30 and I must take my leave (really tight schedule today).
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand, Sonja. My point was just manifesting interest. I understand that the Executive will deal with the details. But we could today strictly forbid â€” or encourage â€” the Chancellor to go ahead
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Post something about the discussions and lets read them before we take action
[10:33] Brian Livingston: One quick point: Rose asked me to remind everyone of the “Meet the Candidates” party taking place in LA today at noon!
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[10:33] Sonja Strom: It seems to me we could simply say what our feeling about this is,
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami hopes to be there
[10:33] zaphod Enoch: on the other hand i am about to design your building in munich, means the place you will have there because munich is build as the real munich so there is no chance to build anything new
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Is there any further business before the Body?
[10:33] Sonja Strom: which would take about 45 seconds, and most of us have.
[10:33] zaphod Enoch: you will reside in a building which exists real in munich sl
[10:33] Sonja Strom: Maybe I should make it an official bill…
[10:34] Sonja Strom: a clear yes or no.
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: I think we need the chancellor’s input before RA can consider all the details.
[10:34] Brian Livingston: Agreed, Soro.
[10:34] Pip Torok: agreed
[10:34] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My feeling is that we can talk about our feelings, with or without the chancellor
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: As a point, please know I am in support of the proposition — but I want the Chancellor’s input.
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in this case, I’m personally all for it â€” leaving, of course, the details for the Exec to figure out.
[10:35] Pip Torok: certainly gwyn but his impurt wd be valuable imho
[10:35] zaphod Enoch: well i do not have a hurry
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: Good.
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Let’s build a fire under Jamie.
[10:36] Sonja Strom laughs
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: indeed gwyn we don’t *need* the chancellor’s input in order to reach a decision but, this is within the Exec branch perview so, i’d like the Chancellor to take it forward
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Make him do the hurrying
[10:36] Sonja Strom: For now we can move on to the next topic I think.
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Are there more?
[10:36] Sonja Strom: Thank you everybody.
[10:37] Brian Livingston: The last point was SC interviews, but there are no candidates before us
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: From what I can see — we have reached the end of the Agenda.
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we somehow talk to Claude about this?
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: who were the latest candidates?
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue he wishes to bring up is pertinent
[10:38] Pip Torok: agree gwyn
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Delia
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Stanton
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: They were here last week.
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: ty soro
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:38] Pip Torok: and getting more pertinent each week …
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: they were? when we didn’t have a meeting?
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: No . . . week before.
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: ah, i see
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: Last RA Session.
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: Last RA Session.
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: SC had not met — I think.
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: And Claude didn’t make the announcement by then
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: (Stanton or Danton?)
[2009/07/12 10:05] Soro Dagostino: Since I have no transcrip log — can someone tell me where the body is?
[2009/07/12 10:05] Soro Dagostino: Agenda wise.
[2009/07/12 10:05] Pip Torok: item III open discussion
[2009/07/12 10:05] Soro Dagostino: TY
[2009/07/12 10:05] Brian Livingston: We’re on discussion point IV, CDS Economic Development, althoguh we are clsoing in on the end of the alloted tiem for such discussion
[2009/07/12 10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that this item be a general news sharing and discussion item regarding the AA merger given that we don’t have jamie to upated us under item II
[2009/07/12 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn gave you RA meeting July 12 up to 10:05 AM SLT.
[2009/07/12 10:06] Sonja Strom: I would like to bring up something in this area.
[2009/07/12 10:06] Patroklus Murakami: and that we extend the discussion time, if needs be
[2009/07/12 10:06] Brian Livingston: Either way, we have exceeded the time alloted for points III and IV combined and then some.
[2009/07/12 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe true… mmmh
[2009/07/12 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d still like to hear any further news on AA
[2009/07/12 10:07] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t see anyone here for items V or VI….
[2009/07/12 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Besides ‘rumours’. For instance, yesterday I was presented to Stui and someone mentioned he’d be one of the appointed representatives. It would be nice to ‘show them the ropes’ so to speak
[2009/07/12 10:07] Brian Livingston: If there is news to be reported, sure, but without the Chancellor or the EO or AA, or a rep from the NG, I don’t see much new news persay.
[2009/07/12 10:07] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to hear from sonja…
[2009/07/12 10:08] Pip Torok: maybe the AA reps will all come tonights party …?
[2009/07/12 10:08] Brian Livingston: Sonja?
[2009/07/12 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope they will
[2009/07/12 10:08] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[2009/07/12 10:09] Sonja Strom: A couple of weeks ago I sent a notecard to our Chancellor about an offer being made to the CDS by MunichSL.
[2009/07/12 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm… I have a stupid idea… what about turning the July 26th meeting into a ‘welcome AA reps’ event? We wouldn’t discuss anything, just tell them *how* we discuss things, show them the rules for discussion, etc
[2009/07/12 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry â€” I type too slowly…)
[2009/07/12 10:09] Sonja Strom: He told me he would talk about it with the RA today, but he is not here…
[2009/07/12 10:09] Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, can we talk about that after this?
[2009/07/12 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my apologies, yes, of course
[2009/07/12 10:10] Pip Torok: an idea gwyn … how about an “adopt-an-AA-rep strategy?
[2009/07/12 10:10] Brian Livingston: Sonja has the floor
[2009/07/12 10:10] Sonja Strom: Pip, could we talk about that in a few minutes?
[2009/07/12 10:10] Pip Torok: ok
[2009/07/12 10:11] Soro Dagostino: I see you don’t need me as a gate keeper! LOL
[2009/07/12 10:11] Sonja Strom: The offer that was made was for the CDS to have a consulate exchange with Munich in SL.
[2009/07/12 10:11] Sonja Strom: MunichSL is a 3d model of RL Munich, so their buildings are like the RL ones.
[2009/07/12 10:11] Sonja Strom: They are offering us a very nice spot there,
[2009/07/12 10:12] Sonja Strom: and would like to have a Consulate in Neufreistadt.
[2009/07/12 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Who would be the consulate person
[2009/07/12 10:12] Sonja Strom: These would basically be information centers.
[2009/07/12 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Isn’t that a Chancellor’s job
[2009/07/12 10:13] Sonja Strom: zaphod is involved in their community as well as ours, and he has offered to help with this…
[2009/07/12 10:13] Soro Dagostino: Like was done at the last exhibition
[2009/07/12 10:13] Sonja Strom: he has started work on a new building for it.
[2009/07/12 10:13] Patroklus Murakami: sounds good. great collaboration probably for the chancellor to take forward as soro suggests
[2009/07/12 10:13] Sonja Strom: I am very much in favour of this effort, and would like to see it go forward.
[2009/07/12 10:13] Pip Torok: agree
[2009/07/12 10:13] Sonja Strom: I gave this information to the Chancellor two weeks ago,
[2009/07/12 10:14] zaphod Enoch: may i say something to that
[2009/07/12 10:14] Soro Dagostino: You have the floor
[2009/07/12 10:14] Sonja Strom: and he told me he would talk with us here in the RA at this meeting, and asked that zaphod be here for our discussion.
[2009/07/12 10:14] zaphod Enoch: about my ideas
[2009/07/12 10:14] Sonja Strom: But, unfortunately, Jamie is not here so I am bringing it up.
[2009/07/12 10:14] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[2009/07/12 10:14] zaphod Enoch: is it my word now
[2009/07/12 10:15] zaphod Enoch: ?
[2009/07/12 10:15] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/07/12 10:15] zaphod Enoch: thanks
[2009/07/12 10:16] Syn Short is Offline
[2009/07/12 10:16] Julia Ceres is Offline
[2009/07/12 10:17] zaphod Enoch: as a citizien of munich sl and a resident of the sl i like spots as yours and munich, because the people in both worlds share the same ides of creating worlds and the first time i set my virtual foot on nfs i was really excited
[2009/07/12 10:17] zaphod Enoch: this a sim i like very much because they are my world
[2009/07/12 10:18] You decline ‘Agenda 6-28-2009′ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/164/40 ) from Agenda giver.
[2009/07/12 10:19] zaphod Enoch: after i had got in contact with sonja and rose and got the possibility to change the interieur of the biergarten, with the allowance of moon and all the others i thought it would be a good idea to have kinda gateway between the sims
[2009/07/12 10:20] zaphod Enoch: so i just made the offer after i have spoken to the munich owner
[2009/07/12 10:20] Soro Dagostino: who is?
[2009/07/12 10:21] zaphod Enoch: if so to speak i do belong to the iner circle of the town representatives, where the owner is Lislo Mensing
[2009/07/12 10:21] Soro Dagostino: ty
[2009/07/12 10:23] zaphod Enoch: the others responsible for the town are Ralfi Beaumont a one for almost everything, Annabella Biedermann organising the big events, Soscho Aeon buildings and there textures, and me doing the events and some smaller buildings
[2009/07/12 10:25] zaphod Enoch: so i thought it would be a good idea to give people the chance to exchange within the neufreistadt sims and the munich (muenchen) sl sim
[2009/07/12 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/07/12 10:25] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we ask the Chancellor to get in touch with zaphod at his earliest convenient time
[2009/07/12 10:25] zaphod Enoch: finished for now
[2009/07/12 10:25] Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/07/12 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly agree!
[2009/07/12 10:25] Sonja Strom: Thanks zaphod.
[2009/07/12 10:25] Patroklus Murakami: yes, ty zaphod
[2009/07/12 10:26] Soro Dagostino: TY zaphod.
[2009/07/12 10:26] zaphod Enoch: thanks gwyneth
[2009/07/12 10:26] Sonja Strom: Does the RA support having this exchange of Consulates?
[2009/07/12 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most definitely, I do )
[2009/07/12 10:26] zaphod Enoch: and thanks for all the support so far
[2009/07/12 10:26] Pip Torok: i so move
[2009/07/12 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If that’s a motion, Sonja, I second it!
[2009/07/12 10:27] Sonja Strom: It seems to me we can simply state our preference and intention.
[2009/07/12 10:27] IM: Brian Livingston: not really, all discussion motions to mvo eto the next discussion points, no legislation or anything though
[2009/07/12 10:27] Sonja Strom: I support it fully.
[2009/07/12 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I support it fully as well.
[2009/07/12 10:27] zaphod Enoch: thanks sonja
[2009/07/12 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, I’ve been to SL Munich, mostly to watch the architecture )
[2009/07/12 10:28] Patroklus Murakami: i support an exchange of consulates, as an individual citizen, but i think it’s up to the Exec branch to deal with
[2009/07/12 10:28] Sonja Strom: Is there any RA member who has reservations about it?
[2009/07/12 10:28] Brian Livingston: I’d be interested in seeign the proposal before really comittign either way
[2009/07/12 10:28] Soro Dagostino: I agree with Pat and Brian.
[2009/07/12 10:28] Patroklus Murakami: and i have every confidence that jamie will attend to this as soon as he is able to
[2009/07/12 10:28] Sonja Strom: Patroklus, I agree with you, but our Executive told me he wanted to bring this topic to the RA today.
[2009/07/12 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, very likely. It might also be a model for further consulates….
[2009/07/12 10:28] Pip Torok: just one … can we request the visiting consulates to respect the theme of the sim in which the consulate resides?
[2009/07/12 10:29] Sonja Strom: Then he himself did not come, but zaphod did…
[2009/07/12 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, good point, Pip
[2009/07/12 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: again, preserving the theme (and noting exceptions) is up to the Exec…
[2009/07/12 10:29] Sonja Strom: The building being made for this consulate by zaphod is in the sandbox on CN if you would like to see it.
[2009/07/12 10:29] Soro Dagostino: I think we need his thoughts and analysis.
[2009/07/12 10:29] Sonja Strom: It is a fachwerk house.
[2009/07/12 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh…. nice lol
[2009/07/12 10:30] Patroklus Murakami: it’s a shame jamie couldn’t be here but… he may have had difficulties logging in. lots of ppl have had today
[2009/07/12 10:30] Pip Torok: yes … but a delicate inter-regional matter dont you think?
[2009/07/12 10:30] Soro Dagostino: I did.
[2009/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t foresee any problems with SLMunich hehe
[2009/07/12 10:30] Brian Livingston: But do they have a football club?
[2009/07/12 10:30] Brian Livingston:
[2009/07/12 10:30] zaphod Enoch: i do have the full responsibility of the owner to talk here for munich sl
[2009/07/12 10:30] Soro Dagostino: I do not either. But, I think we need to hear the Chancellor.
[2009/07/12 10:30] Patroklus Murakami: LOL! i should hope so brian
[2009/07/12 10:31] Pip Torok: mmm a fachwek on the CN sandbox?
[2009/07/12 10:31] zaphod Enoch: nope we do noot have
[2009/07/12 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/07/12 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to ask how the football league is doing, but, alas, that would be part of the Chancellor report, not up to the RA to look into it
[2009/07/12 10:31] Sonja Strom: I would like to make it clear I am not saying anything at all bad about our Chancellor, only that he told me he wanted to bring this issue up here and asked that zaphod be here for the discussion, and now he is not here so I am bringing it up for him.
[2009/07/12 10:32] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn & Sonja — would you put the topic on the forums and ask for a response from the chancellor?
[2009/07/12 10:32] Brian Livingston: Folks, it is 10:30 and I must take my leave (really tight schedule today).
[2009/07/12 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand, Sonja. My point was just manifesting interest. I understand that the Executive will deal with the details. But we could today strictly forbid â€” or encourage â€” the Chancellor to go ahead
[2009/07/12 10:32] Soro Dagostino: Post something about the discussions and lets read them before we take action
[2009/07/12 10:32] Brian Livingston: One quick point: Rose asked me to remind everyone of the “Meet the Candidates” party taking place in LA today at noon!
[2009/07/12 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2009/07/12 10:33] Sonja Strom: It seems to me we could simply say what our feeling about this is,
[2009/07/12 10:33] Patroklus Murakami hopes to be there
[2009/07/12 10:33] zaphod Enoch: on the other hand i am about to design your building in munich, means the place you will have there because munich is build as the real munich so there is no chance to build anything new
[2009/07/12 10:33] Soro Dagostino: Is there any further business before the Body?
[2009/07/12 10:33] Sonja Strom: which would take about 45 seconds, and most of us have.
[2009/07/12 10:33] zaphod Enoch: you will reside in a building which exists real in munich sl
[2009/07/12 10:33] Sonja Strom: Maybe I should make it an official bill…
[2009/07/12 10:34] Sonja Strom: a clear yes or no.
[2009/07/12 10:34] Soro Dagostino: I think we need the chancellor’s input before RA can consider all the details.
[2009/07/12 10:34] Brian Livingston: Agreed, Soro.
[2009/07/12 10:34] Pip Torok: agreed
[2009/07/12 10:34] Sonja Strom: ok
[2009/07/12 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My feeling is that we can talk about our feelings, with or without the chancellor
[2009/07/12 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/07/12 10:35] Soro Dagostino: As a point, please know I am in support of the proposition — but I want the Chancellor’s input.
[2009/07/12 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in this case, I’m personally all for it â€” leaving, of course, the details for the Exec to figure out.
[2009/07/12 10:35] Pip Torok: certainly gwyn but his impurt wd be valuable imho
[2009/07/12 10:35] zaphod Enoch: well i do not have a hurry
[2009/07/12 10:35] Soro Dagostino: Good.
[2009/07/12 10:36] Soro Dagostino: Let’s build a fire under Jamie.
[2009/07/12 10:36] Sonja Strom laughs
[2009/07/12 10:36] Patroklus Murakami: indeed gwyn we don’t *need* the chancellor’s input in order to reach a decision but, this is within the Exec branch perview so, i’d like the Chancellor to take it forward
[2009/07/12 10:36] Soro Dagostino: Make him do the hurrying
[2009/07/12 10:36] Sonja Strom: For now we can move on to the next topic I think.
[2009/07/12 10:36] Soro Dagostino: Are there more?
[2009/07/12 10:36] Sonja Strom: Thank you everybody.
[2009/07/12 10:37] Brian Livingston: The last point was SC interviews, but there are no candidates before us
[2009/07/12 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2009/07/12 10:37] Soro Dagostino: From what I can see — we have reached the end of the Agenda.
[2009/07/12 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we somehow talk to Claude about this?
[2009/07/12 10:38] Patroklus Murakami: who were the latest candidates?
[2009/07/12 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue he wishes to bring up is pertinent
[2009/07/12 10:38] Pip Torok: agree gwyn
[2009/07/12 10:38] Soro Dagostino: Delia
[2009/07/12 10:38] Soro Dagostino: Stanton
[2009/07/12 10:38] Soro Dagostino: They were here last week.
[2009/07/12 10:38] Patroklus Murakami: ty soro
[2009/07/12 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/07/12 10:38] Pip Torok: and getting more pertinent each week …
[2009/07/12 10:38] Patroklus Murakami: they were? when we didn’t have a meeting?
[2009/07/12 10:38] Soro Dagostino: No . . . week before.
[2009/07/12 10:38] Patroklus Murakami: ah, i see
[2009/07/12 10:39] Soro Dagostino: Last RA Session.
[2009/07/12 10:39] Soro Dagostino: SC had not met — I think.
[2009/07/12 10:39] Soro Dagostino: And Claude didn’t make the announcement by then
[2009/07/12 10:39] Patroklus Murakami: (Stanton or Danton?)
[2009/07/12 10:39] Pip Torok: does anyone know whether Danton is now an SC member?
[2009/07/12 10:39] Soro Dagostino: Ah, er.
[2009/07/12 10:39] Patroklus Murakami: they won’t be SC members until we ratify them, i think
[2009/07/12 10:40] Soro Dagostino: My memory is poor this morning.
[2009/07/12 10:40] IM: Brian Livingston: I have the transcipt up to 10:39, please grab the rest and I’ll fwd waht i have to you.
[2009/07/12 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we haven’t after a month, they’re automatically ratified
[2009/07/12 10:40] Pip Torok: sorry a recomendee …
[2009/07/12 10:40] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could do that without the formality of questions?
[2009/07/12 10:40] IM: Brian Livingston: Or fwd your part to me and I’;ll scrub and post it
[2009/07/12 10:40] Pip Torok: id support that, pat
[2009/07/12 10:40] Brian Livingston is Offline
[2009/07/12 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the case of either, I’d be happy to forfeit the questions too. We know them well, and how they stand
[2009/07/12 10:41] Soro Dagostino: I think both folk are really fine people.
[2009/07/12 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have definitely the same opinion, Soro
[2009/07/12 10:41] Patroklus Murakami: i move we approve the appointment of Delia Lake and Danton Sideways to the SC
[2009/07/12 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2009/07/12 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconded!
[2009/07/12 10:41] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/07/12 10:41] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2009/07/12 10:41] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/07/12 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2009/07/12 10:41] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/07/12 10:42] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[2009/07/12 10:42] Soro Dagostino: I will so advise Claude.
[2009/07/12 10:42] Patroklus Murakami: hurrah, progress
[2009/07/12 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks! Remind him that we eagerly await his presentation too
[2009/07/12 10:42] Soro Dagostino: Any further business?
[2009/07/12 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, I have a better idea…
[2009/07/12 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, you suggested we talked about an introduction ‘session’ for the AA reps
[2009/07/12 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we might get Claude to do his presentation at the same time!
[2009/07/12 10:43] Soro Dagostino: Whoo hoo!!
[2009/07/12 10:43] Pip Torok: sounds good …
[2009/07/12 10:43] Soro Dagostino: Won’t they learn in the trenches!
[2009/07/12 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will, of course, but it’s also nice of us to give them a hand…
[2009/07/12 10:44] Soro Dagostino: I think the material is extremely controversial.
[2009/07/12 10:44] Pip Torok: itll be a kindness!!
[2009/07/12 10:44] Patroklus Murakami: welcome to the CDS…. obey our laws, or else? !!!!
[2009/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pat
[2009/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Soro, you might be right…
[2009/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It might just be too much of a culture shock hehe
[2009/07/12 10:45] Soro Dagostino: Do I hear a motion to adjourn?
[2009/07/12 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps we could have it as a public session?
[2009/07/12 10:45] Patroklus Murakami: i was hoping this idea about making compliance with laws (or else) would just disappear
[2009/07/12 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pat
[2009/07/12 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… so let’s not flog the dead horse then
[2009/07/12 10:45] Patroklus Murakami: can we take it off the agenda? since it is plainly not that great an idea?
[2009/07/12 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn makes a motion to adjourn
[2009/07/12 10:45] Pip Torok: sweconded
[2009/07/12 10:45] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/07/12 10:45] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[2009/07/12 10:45] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/07/12 10:46] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn does not oppose and votes in favour
[2009/07/12 10:46] Soro Dagostino: Thanks.
[2009/07/12 10:46] Soro Dagostino: Carrie.
[2009/07/12 10:46] Soro Dagostino: d8
[2009/07/12 10:46] Soro Dagostino: d*
[2009/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/07/12 10:47] Patroklus Murakami: was this our last session then?
[2009/07/12 10:47] Pip Torok: the last session this term …
[2009/07/12 10:47] Soro Dagostino: I will ask Claude to make a presentation in the Forum.
[2009/07/12 10:47] Pip Torok: yup …
[2009/07/12 10:47] Soro Dagostino: YAY!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 2 August 2009

RA Transcript: 2 August 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:27 pm
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: if you can manage to touch the recorder on the table in the center, arria, that would be helpful. and everyone else too
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: also sitting on the floor next to the table is an amphora that will give you an agenda if you touch it.
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I cannot touch anything ( I dont see the recorder)
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah, here’s carolyn!
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: but I consent to be recorded
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: hi carolyn, sorry for the insanity….
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: if you see the table its in the centre of it arria
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: hi carolyn
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: and thanks for making our quorum
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: yea – please Rose
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: hi zaphod
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Hello Carolyn, welcome.
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: Hi Zaphod
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please take a seat on one of the benches — it’s a whole new setup, so there are no traditions.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: great
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: Hi Justice
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: hello to all of you
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I consent to be recorded
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Do we think that everyone who is going to arrive has arrived?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: thanks i was already looking for that the very minute it started to play….
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: stand up
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Well…except that Rose wants to make sure we all hear the anthem, so if you turn on your music you can hear it
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Again if there are any RA member who don’t have the affirmation, please IM.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: houraaaahhhh for CDS/AA
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: houraaaahhhh for CDS/AA
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: houraaaahhhh for CDS/AA
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Claude, I’m going to turn over to you for the inauguration.
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: hurray
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: I will log off and be back in two minutes or less. Please excuse me.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: affirmations…
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Welcome to the 11th Representative Assembly.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: nods
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Our tenth elected RA, and our largest by far.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: All the RA members should have the affirmation.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: At one time we did this indvidually, but as we are now so many…
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: …I think we should embrace the cacophony and all type (or cut/paste – hence the cards) at once.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: I, Sonja Strom, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: I, Micael Khandr, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: I, Robert Galland, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: I, Soro Dagostino, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear by the great George Carlin that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. May George rest in peace.
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: I, Carolyn Saarinen, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Before I hand things over to the new LRA…
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: …I want to remind her that it is traditional for the new RA to deliver a brief ‘state of the CDS’address at the beginning of the term.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Congratulations all…
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you claude
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Thanks, Claude.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: ….and I yield the floor to the new LRA.
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: thank you
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: Thank you, Claude.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: can I please as Nafttali, Zaph, junius, rose to touch the recorder on the table to give consent to recording?
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: did you see mine?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: yes, arria, I did not mention your name.
[2009/08/02 Danton Sideways: woot
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: grins
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, a brief state o fthe CDS
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: your lovely cloud is still working correct Arria
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: ty
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: much was accomplished in the last term, not the least significant being the marriage of CDS and Al Andalus
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: we are financially healthy, socially doubled in size…
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: and of course the RA is a whole new animal, twice the size it has been and with the challenges inherent in any new organization
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: as I mentioned on the forum, I’m going to ask your indulgence as we learn to work…and play together.
[2009/08/02 notetaker 2.0.1: notetaker 2.0.1 [script:notetaker 2.0.1] Script run-time error
[2009/08/02 notetaker 2.0.1: Stack-Heap Collision
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: in particular, I’d like to direct your attention to the big blue ? on the platform
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: this is a “question queue” and what I’d ask is that if you would like to speak, rather than IMing me or speaking out, you click on the queue.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: we will all see that you have “queued up” and I will authorize the speakers in the order in which they queued.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: and I’d ask that everyone try to keep their turn on the floor down to 2 minutes if possible
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I dont see it today
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Rose Springvale has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I’m going to see if we can do this without a clock — hopefully we will be able to discipline ourselves.
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: hi jamie
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: Cindy…
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah, I see Rose has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: thanks, just wanted to let you know that the back rows here are out of chat range
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Rose, you have the floor
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: thus my comment
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah yes…well…
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: about music… too far away.. so people might want to move forward
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Carolyn Saarinen has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: apologizes for interruption
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: good idea.
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Carolyn Saarinen
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn?
[2009/08/02 You decline Reading Avgi, Isle of Awakening, Avgi (106, 38, 22) from A group member named sabreman Carter.
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: There is no need for this room to be so large
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Could we have the members area reduced to let others sit closer?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades waves from a really horrid ajaxlife avatar interface with no visuals, and questionable hotel internet, but here all the same
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: great yu could make it jamie
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: good suggestion
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: will work on it with Moon….that one we missed when we resdesigned this week
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: so my seat is available
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Ok
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: all right…..
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: not anymore
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok feels better already!
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: lol
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: if you don’t have a copy of the agenda, please touch the amphora under the table. arria I will hand you one.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: grins] 2009/08/02 Pip Torok blushes
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: can others use member’s seats for this meeting, so they are in chat range?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: thats healthy pip
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: yes, I don’t see why not…
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: good for your face
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Arria!
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: ty
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: you clicked!
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: question?
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: yes
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: my question was about agenda. I would to have it before the meeting
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: it was on the forum arria
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Friday afternoon
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: that will be my intent, to have it on the forum on Friday
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: greetings delia
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: yes
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Sonja Strom has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: Hi Delia
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: great
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: sonja?
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen shouts: Everybody in the cheap seats, move up so you can hear
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: (when you see “Nxt in queue” with your name pop up, please take the floor
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thx carolyn…
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: It looks to me like everybody would be in chat range if the LRA and Arria could stand on the floor.
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Thanks.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I do not see anyone out of chat range right now
[[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: under event, yes I see
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: yea I can hear you all fine
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Can everybody hear Cindy fine?
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: i can
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Yes.
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: me too
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: i can, if zap and junius can, we should be okay
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: yep
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: yes
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Rose?
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: yes
[2009/08/02 Junius Inaka: yes I can
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: ok, then the problem is over…
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: great, i’ll monitor anyone else coming in
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Yes
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok…the agenda.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: any concerns or additions?
[2009/08/02 You decline Peacefest SUNDAY AUGUST 2nd Schedule! from A group member named Siri Vita.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: nips from her coffee looking from above at this theatre, and feels home
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: A point that can wait til the end
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: I IM’d you Cindy
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you carolyn. please queue up at the appropriate time
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: all right.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: next meeting…two weeks from today, 16 aug at 9am
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: any objectsion?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: any requests for 7 day vote?
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: I will not be able to be there, and request a 7-day vote for that meeting.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: noted
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: anyone else?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: nope
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please note that if something comes up, you can always question a 7day vote by IMing me or posting to the forum
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland nods
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: ah good
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Carolyn Saarinen has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I meant “request” not Questions
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Carolyn Saarinen
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Caro?
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Here’s an example I found on XSL
https://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=685336
It is pretty cheap and has Away and Busy options as well as just Online/Offline
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Also, as a closely related matter, I think it would be helpful to clarify what admin permissions RA members have. What problems are we able to resolve for citizens? Are there issues that should be refered to specifically skilled persons?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Caro, could I ask you to hold these to the end of the meeting “Concerns of RA members”?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: would like to get to the agenda
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Sure
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thx!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: so next on the agenda…election of Chancellor
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I believe we have two candidates, Jamiei Palisades and Zaphod Epoch
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I see Jamie…Zaph, are you here?
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: yes i am
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah, great!
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: still following
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I’m going to ask each candidate to make a short statement to the RA.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, since you’re on a tenuous connection, would you like to go first?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: oops
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: that answers THAT question
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, Zaphod, you have the floor.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please keep your statement to 5 minutes
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: honoured house dear mister chancellor
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: i first of all want to apologize my poor english in some expressions i wil make
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: nods
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: can feel with yu
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: as being a citizien of the cds for quite a while right now and following the politics of the cds and learning about it i ws able to see a tremendous done work on all the sims belonging
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: hi
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: and with the merge of the al anduls locations it was enriched in my believe
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: unfortunately i see that the visitors of the sims are not very many so i think this must have to be changed
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: and in the politics as done right now, i think that point is not made important enough
[2009/08/02 Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I see arria has the first question for Zaph. Arria?
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: that is the reason why i decided in the last moment so to speak to apply for the chancellor and to try my best to make cds more important to the rest of the whole sl
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: thanks
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: arria, you have a question?
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: i am finished
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: Zaphod, I think that culture and education are important in SL. What is your position regarding these two domains?
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************

(continued)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Transcript: 2 August 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:38 pm
(continued)
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Naftali Torok has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: that is a driving factor within sl
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: Zaphod, I think that culture and education are important in SL. What is your position regarding these two domains?
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: this will give a good postioin for a loction within sl
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol reminds everyone to please say “finished” when you are done speaking
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: and will increase the number of people visiting cds
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: finished
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Sonja Strom has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Naftali Torok
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Naftali? A question?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: yes
[2009/08/02 Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: sorry had some lag issues here
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: can i still speak?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok…1 minutes please
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: go ahead now
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: sorry, yes iagree very much with arria about the role of our sims in education and art
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: so what are your ideas about the commercial side of our sims?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: zaphod?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: in connection with the promo of the sims as well
[2009/08/02 Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: well it might take still a part of being interested but the main hype is gone and has changed to the cultural and educational side, but it can’t be ignored for sure
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: ok thanks
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: may i say a little thing more
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: 30 seconds zaph
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: yes please
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: looks at the clockticking
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: so it needs to have a fine balance between ecucation, culture and commerce
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: finished
[2009/08/02 Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thx
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: sonja, you have a question?
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: First I have a small question/suggestion for the LRA and the Assembly. When we are finished I would like “Thank you” as a sign of that better than “Finished.” Could we say that?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades:
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: sure! as long as it’s clear you’re finished
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: smiles
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: ok
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: My question for the candidate is:
2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: That you are ‘thnk you’d’
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Would you see the enforcement of building standards in the community as important? How would you help to maintain continuity of the present high standards of CDS building and development?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: mumbles “bombom” and winks to pip
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: thanks
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: lol
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: zaphod?
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: well the cds area is a well done area and i think at the moment it is great but to have an extension of the nfs area would be a plus for our community
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: i hope i have interpreted your question the right way
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: ty
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue:
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: any other questions for zaph?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, jamie? are you with us?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you Zaphod
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: holy jmaie in a cloud , pray for us
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: thank the honoured house
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: I apologize for being only half here, as I am dialing in from a business trip with questionable connectivity. All the same: I’ve been delighted to work with you this last year, believe we are fundamentally on the right course, and woud be honored to continue to be able to serve. We’ve had limited success with fixing land and commercial issues, though i expect more; tremendous success so ofar with events and the Al Andalus merger; good financial stability; and a lot of opportunity for relations with other micronations, where i’ve invested quite a bit of time this year. Maybe in light of the tetchy chat, I should take questions, instead of attempt a long speech?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: i think he disappeard again
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: oeps
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: HOWEVER, no, Nafi, no praying to the spooky cloud
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol smiles
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you jamie
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: questions for jamie?
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Pip Torok has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: amen
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Pip Torok
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades raises spectral poofy eyebrow invisibly
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: go ahead pip
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Sonja Strom has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Naftali Torok has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: what wd you like to see develop during this term?
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: thank you
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Pip, from a LAW point of view, better commercial incentives, and finishing having our covenants harmonizedd …
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: from events: a big happy oktoberfest, and more cultural activities initiated by members …
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: and from a LAND point of view, a decision about another Alpine sim
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: “TY”
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Sonja?
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: I would like to ask the same question of you that I asked zaphod: How would you help to maintain continuity of the present high standards of CDS building and development?
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: In particular, I would like to have your view on the Neufreistadt Marktplatz.
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: thank you
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: sonja, really, we have the covenants, subject to a little maintenance and updating, so it is the enforcement
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I have a question, but I don’t see the Question’s queue ….
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: most of you can see from the forums what our enrocement activity is …
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: (just touch the blue question-mark arria
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I don’t any object
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Pip, I don’t think she is able to see the question-mark.
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: No
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: order please!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I believe jamie has the floor
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: f you are having trouble, arria, please IM me to get in the queue
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: but also, note, on the Platz, we have a “commercial” law, but its does not really narrow the permitted uses to retail. Sonja and I have discussed this, and personally I hope the RA will narrow the definition of “commercial” in this coming term. Done (TY)
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: nods
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: for this was also one of my questions
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Naftali Torok
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: ok
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: thanks
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: naftali, you have the floor
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: Ok Jamie i also want to ask you about your ideas for cds as too “commercial issues”…i love our land very much and i am very sad to see too much commercial items in the land although i am not against trade in general
what are your ideas about this subject when yu even speak about increase commercy..?
2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: i still have some hopes for tat, but only for a limited number of lots …
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: well, Nafi, what we settle son a year ago was a lowered-rent program with competitive bid
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: ok
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: we’re not a mall, and I do not think our citizens want us to be one. Done, TY
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue:
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Arria? you had aquestion?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah, she may be gone again…I cannot tell…
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: cloud has become a questionmark…..
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades gives Cindy the how-we-doin-for-time look,… happy to answer more if desired
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol waiting another 10 seconds for arria
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you jamie and all.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: sings….aria-aria- aria-aria— ariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: shall we proceed to a vote?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: pardon
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: naftali?
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: lets do that
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: Jamie, I would like to know your ideas to make the land market in CDS more transparent ?
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: yes
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Soro Dagostino has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: yes to vote
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: So Move
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: one moment — I would like to give jamie a chance to answer Arria
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: /me/ hopes for J’s answer first
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Yield
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: (If we don’t have that chat before vote, let’s have ot soon after, it’s a good topic)
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: oh good, ok …
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Arria, our older system was sort of a opaque, you-must-know-someone system
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: that did not make anyone happy …
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: we replaced that by law with two things, first a “open yellow map” sale
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: and second, the opportunity to create a better, managed system where prospective buyers can get into a fair queue
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: i would still like us to implement the latter … which will require presenting a description of it to the RA
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: as the current system still seemd to result in a lot of reasonable expectations being thwarted
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: (or course, that’s less a problem when we open up more land). TY
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Carolyn Saarinen has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok. thank you jamie and zaph
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Renew the Motion
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you soro
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I guess I should just call for votes?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: so all in favor of zaphod?
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Aye
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: Aye
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of jamie?
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Aye
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Aye
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: Aye
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: Aye
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: Aye
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Has everyone voted?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol thinking that we need a “vote board” now too!
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Aye
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: I mean Yes
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Carolyn?
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Ah, Carolyn . . .?
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: And Delia?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Delia i snot an RA member
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: I abstain on the grounds that I do not know the the candidates and their agendas well enough to give an informed opinion.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: No. She’s SC.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you Carolyn.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I believe that Jamie is our Chancellor for the current term
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: congratulations jamie!
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Congratulations Jamie!
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: can you summarize the votes?
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: Congratulations.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: hourah
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: hourah
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: hourah
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: yay!
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: congrats jamie
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: yay! Congrats Jamie
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Congratulations, Jamie!
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: APPLAUSE!!!
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades nods, so far as a cloud can, and thanks his neighbors
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: all right…moving on! I’ve asked Sudane to come down and give us a briefing on the CDS budget process…
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Congratulations to our old and new Chancellor.
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: hehe
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: Cindy, considering that you must leave soon, I will be perfectly happy doing this next week
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: those of us who have been here for a while know something about it, but a refresher is always good, and of course we ave many new citizens who need to know
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: no, go ahead sudane…
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: kk… hold on to rez a board
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please use th equestion queue if you have questions. sudane, just say “questions?” and I’ll queue up wheover’s next
2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok…
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Sudane, for us clouds, can the visuals also be posted later?
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: and can everyone see the board?
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: sure!
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: very similiar to last year
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok… budgeting for the upcoming budget period…
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: noooooo
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: Sept thru Feb
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: first step is to determine projected revenue
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: we take a conservative approach
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: that means
2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: that only numbers that we think we know… we use
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: the only experience we have is collecting tier on the 4 CDS sims
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: “formerly”
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: so,,,
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: as you can see, if you can see.
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: from Jan thru June we collected an average of US$1350/month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: for NFS, CN, AM and LA
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: adding to that
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: we take the conservative assumption that the collections of the other 7 sims.
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: will be “break-even”
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: zaphod Enoch [18m] [2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: hola Joaquim
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: so

(continued)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Transcript: 2 August 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:50 pm
(continued)
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: the total projected revenue… for the 11 sims…
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: Imotali Antiesse [19m] [2009/08/02 Chat Range: Naftali Torok [11m] [2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: is US$1930/month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: hmmm… should I take questions on each step?
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: or wait to the end?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: no currently queued quesionts
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: there are 4 steps
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok
[[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: next step… determine fixed expenses
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: sorry .. i think i gave joaquin a bad time
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: at this time… the only really *fixed* expenses are tier paid to Linden Lab
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: i’ve itemized those on the chart… if you can’t see it, wait til; I post
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: but… tier will be US$1560/month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: mind you… this is averaged out
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: the tier on the AA sims is not paid every month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: but
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: we are budgeting on a monthly basis
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: so we translate everything to the month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: now…
2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: 1560 (the expenses) is 81% of 1930 (the revenue)
2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: so we hav 19% for our discretionary expenses
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: next
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Sudane, may i make two quick comments about that?
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok… i’ve nmade this step 3A… cause i believe that its important to plan for a reserve
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok… sure
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: first, that 19% is down from before the merger; but tats an acceptable change we took on as part of the merger transaction
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: (thats because of the breakeven projection)
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: second, we still have a pretty darn big reserve, so tat is a cushion against the month to month fluctuations as well …
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: … and the RAshould be conscious of the different between plans to spend from current income, versus the reserve. Done, thx
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: should i continmue?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok… “why a reserve?”
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: I have outlined a number of points here
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: I won’t try to re type them
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: simply… I feel its important to budget a reserve
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: kk… this proposes that a reserve be budgeted at 25% of available funds
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: using the numbers from before
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: this means $92 / month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: 5% of total revenues
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: finally…
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: the remaining funds should be spent for operating expenses
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: this is projected by this budget to be US$278/month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: or L$74,780/month
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: it is then up to the chancellor and RA to decide how that gets allocated… assuming this budget process outlined here meets with approval…
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: Jamie can explain that process
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: thats it!…
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ty!
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: questions?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I see none queued up sudane
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: please continue
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: great
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: oh… thats it for me… i have no specific proposals on spending the 278
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: my concern is that we adapt these assumptions
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Am I in the list?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Maybe I shuld chime in that the the RA should expect projected expenses and proposals from me, within two meetings, all consistent (within) the numbers Sudane presented.
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: I have question.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: soro?
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: ok?
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: The income from AA seems to be a lot less than the CDS “4”
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: yes… that’s because we are assuming a revenue equal to breakeven
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: while for the CDS sims, we have real data
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: also
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: the AA sim cost a lot less… basically half
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: Jamie Palisades [17m], Junius Inaka [20m] [2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: of what the old CDS sims do
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades nods — a lot more public prims, Soro, less rentable land proportionately
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: because they are under a non profit status
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: and LL charges less for them
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: zaphod Enoch has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Carolyn Saarinen
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Sorry — hugh Lag
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn first….
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: Is it possible that cds could become a non-profit/ educative sim in the future?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: aj
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Caro, a question?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: sorry
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: Junius Inaka [20m] [2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: pushed the button
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: excuse me? no, I didn’t click
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok.
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Arria? a question?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Yes, to Nafi, if the RA wants to go there
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: thanks
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah…erhaps she is gone?
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: zaphod Enoch
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: zaphod, a question for sudane?
[2009/08/02 Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: Yes, I would like to know if we could calculate an average prims price for all CDS, inclusive the new sims
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol notes that it would be helpful if we would all turn on our typing animations during thse meetings
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: yes, we could..
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: what is the difference to be in a non profit status than in default status
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: the difference is that the sim’s tier is one half for the non profits than it is for the normal
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: pretty significant
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: what is to be done to get in this status
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: You have to work for it
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: Jamie Palisades [17m], Junius Inaka [20m] [2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: do not understand
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: I think Rose knows most about it.
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: okay
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: i’ll be glad to chat with you after the meeting, or if we want to put on agenda soon
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: okay
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: think we are short on time today
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks rose.
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue:
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: any other quesetions for sudane?
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: did you answer mine, SUdane?
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: zaphod Enoch [18m], Imotali Antiesse [19m] [2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: yes…
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: We are right on schedule with our agenda, Cindy.
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: i siad that such a number could be calculated
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you so much sudane
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: yw
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Jamie as chancellor is responsible for proposing a budget….
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: applauds sudane
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: hi sbudget will follow the guidlines you just heard from Sudane
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Thanks Sudane!
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: /ME APPLAUDS sUDANE
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: applause
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Welll done!!
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: ty
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: thank you as always for your underappreciated and great work for us, Sudane,
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: he will present to RA hopefully in the next meeting or two and we will have a chance to ask questions and approve the budget
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Clap, clap!
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, we’re pretty much back on schedule.
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: efgaristo Sudane
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: next item is concerns of RA members…
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato:
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: wow gwyn
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn, you brougt up the status board earlier, would you like to reiterate and continue?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: order please!
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Certainly..
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, we’re in the middle of a meeting. please touch the recorder
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Apologese for jumping in too soon earlier.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: no problem! we’re all getting adjusted…
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: the floor is yours now
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Here’s an example I found on XSL
https://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=685336
It is pretty cheap and has Away and Busy options as well as just Online/Offline
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn likes that!
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Also, as a closely related matter, I think it would be helpful to clarify what admin permissions RA members have. What problems are we able to resolve for citizens? Are there issues that should be refered to specifically skilled persons?
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: I think it is a very good idea, but should be left to each indiovidual rep to decide to do.
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Claude Desmoulins has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: I agree
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, would you like to speak briefly to the issue of permissions>
[2009/08/02 Arria Perreault: I agree with Micael
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok agrees
[2009/08/02 Chat Range: zaphod Enoch [18m] [2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Regarding the status borad, Carolyn could you get a detailed notecard on this particular one and pass it around to RA members for review?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Perms. Got it. A good job probably would require some detail, so I will undertake to make a posting … however, we’ve never been set up to have all legislators have advanced asset control or land powers by reason of office. nor do I suspect that’s what anyone woud want
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Post it in the forums?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: we can also discuss this in the forum, and if it seems like a good idea to all, we can work with jamie to set somethign up
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: can do, I’ll contact the creator .
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ty soro, yes
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: and since Jamie is clearly having lag problems today, perhaps he can give us an update on what he’s been working on vis a vis permissions at the next meeting
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I will work with him on that.
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Claude Desmoulins
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: claude?

(continued)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Transcript: 2 August 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:57 pm
(continued)
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: is that a citizen concern or a question on current discussion?
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Just going to mention thet Chilbo has such a thing. Don’t know where they got it.
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale believes Senator Llewellyn has one also….
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: I’ll ask Fleep.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Caro, would you like to go track that one down too? seems like a good idea to see what’s out there…ah, and gwyn’s too!
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Rose â€šÃ„Ã® possibly…
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Will do
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: Cindy, as lomg as Claude is here, may I mention that the RA ought to have an archivist, to assist with making sure that bils & such get posted & updated?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: lots of options…I leave it to you to brief us on the forum
[2009/08/02 Sudane Erato: i think there are freebies
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: So you are Senators now finished.
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Sudane
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I think so…
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Claude
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: claude, do you have a citizen concern?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: you are next up…
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: all right, any other questions
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: I was addressing the online /offline status system. I would add since I have the floor that there was an old Archivist description but I don’t know what happened to it. As dean, i hope the RA puts an archivist in place soon, as the sometimes slow posting of passed bills complicated the SC’s review role.
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: finished
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, good thought. on my ist
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: actually on my list to talk over with Jamie since that is an Exec function
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hiring, yes…
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: actually i think the LRA appinted the archivist
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: announcements?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: but either way we need one
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Rose Springvale has a question
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha… yes, one of those stupid loopholes… sorry, I know I’m out of order…
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: yes.. but not registering on queue
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: ah, maybe
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: rose first, then gwyn
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Soon I would like an update from the Chancellor on the status of Consulate requests, but it does not have to be made today.
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: well, i’m not RA, so technically gwyn first
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn….?
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wished to apologise for coming in at the very last minute, congratulate all elected members, and wish you all a wonderful 11th term
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: [is someone clearing the breakfast table?] [2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, thank you
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: rose
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ?
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: lol i am in im to cindy but……giggles
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2009/08/02 Naftali Torok: Naftali Torok: voice=open again
[9:14] Torok: guess yu hit the button
[9:15] Torok: DONT DO THE WASHING UP while yu are in RA lol
[9:15] Torok: giggles
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom would like to hear Gwyneth swear in
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: yes thanks
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland nods and smiles to Gwen.
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: lolol
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… you’re so right, Sonja!
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: next week we have more
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: joaquin and naf and stui and wasp
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol giggles and looks over at her daughter at the dishwasher….
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: but my announcement…
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: i can operate lawlessly for a week if you like, or swear in now as well
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom:
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ah, Jamie!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: how could I forget?
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Easy!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: but right now Rose is speaking…please listen!
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Claude Desmoulins has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: no, go on!
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: i’ll type and be ready
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: kk.
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, would you like to give us an affirmation?
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades: I, Jamie Palisades, having been elected as Chancellor of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. “Thank you”
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: hi Aba!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank YOU
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Rose?
[2009/08/02 AbaBrukh Aabye: hi Pip!
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland smiles
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: Inaugural/Merger Celebration next sunday, beginning with a piano concert prelude at 1 pm, and followed by procession, presentation of new officials, and dancing with our friend Soliel Snook at 2
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: yay! party!!
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: invitations will be ready tomorrow, if you’d like to send some to friends, i’ll give you copies
[2009/08/02 Lilith Ivory: yea!
[2009/08/02 Carolyn Saarinen: Hi Aba, meeting’s nearly over.
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: Thanks Rose
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: need to firm up location
[2009/08/02 AbaBrukh Aabye: sorrry, I was in RL
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: also
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Soro Dagostino has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: smile. we will need more help for oktoberfest this year… so be ready to say yes
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: “ty”?
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: done, thank you
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: kk
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Claude Desmoulins
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: Soro, a question?
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: Move to Adjourn.
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Second.
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: claude was first
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: thank you both!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/08/02 Soro Dagostino: aye
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Aye, yi yi.
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh Claude is in the queue?…
[2009/08/02 Joaquin Gustav: ayw
[2009/08/02 AbaBrukh Aabye: ayuh
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: no…that was an already recognized question
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: aye
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Sonja Strom has a question
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
[2009/08/02 Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah! ok, â€šÃ„Ã® aye to adjourn then!
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol holds her reeling head
[2009/08/02 Jamie Palisades waves his cloud hand, from um, the cloud
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Nothing.
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: Congrats to all and thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments and attention
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: thanks cindy… nice work… i
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: good job Cindy
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: seven minutes over schedule, Cindy–try to be better next time
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: wow, thanks to all o fyou!
[2009/08/02 Pip Torok: yes thanks!!
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: smiles.. assumes we are adjourbed?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: ha ha, Micael!
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Is AbaBrukh a new member of the RA? If so, could he swear in?
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: adjourned
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: he’s not
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: no, he is not
[2009/08/02 Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: ok
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: Thanks Robert
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Thanks, that was my question — no other,
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland smiles
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: I must run….
[2009/08/02 Robert Galland: Please forgive me, I have to run to RL, nice seeing everyone.
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: except I would like to know what Claude wanted to say.
[2009/08/02 Micael Khandr: Adios all
[2009/08/02 Rose Springvale: Guild meeting next at NFS school
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: My question was addressed.
[2009/08/02 zaphod Enoch: right after ?
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: anyone who wants to envy me, I’ll be at http://augustaheritage.com for the week doing vocal week/old time week/dance week all in one week
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: ok, thanks!
[2009/08/02 Claude Desmoulins: Nothing further thanks.
[2009/08/02 Sonja Strom: Aye to adjournment then
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: on e-mail and forums, probably not inworld much. will need time for sleep if I can find it
[2009/08/02 Cindy Ecksol: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 16 August 2009

RA Minutes 16 Aug 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:27 pm
Meeting on 2009-08-16
Those present: RA members -Cindy Ecksol, Micael Khandr, Pip Torok, Naftali Torok, Soro Dagastino, Joaquin Gustav
Chancellor – Jamie Palisades
Seven day votes: Carolyn Saarinen, Sonja Strom, Arria Perreault
Cindy Ecksol is in the chair.
Cindy Ecksol looks around and counts to see if we have a quorum yet….
Jamie Palisades: hmm – woudl that be lese majeste? I didn;t grow up in a country with a monarch
Jamie Palisades: Well, excluding the Bush administration
Cindy Ecksol: I think we need one more….
Lilith Ivory: hehe Jamie
Micael Khandr: I was thinking the same thing, Jamie . . .
Cindy Ecksol: sonja and Carolyn have requested 7 day votes, so they will not be here.
Cindy Ecksol: and speaking of seating…are you all going to leave poor micael all by himself on my right?
Micael Khandr: Do hey form a quorum?
Micael Khandr: Not being here now?
Cindy Ecksol: no, micael, we need seven present
Jamie Palisades: what’s quorum these days? 7 of 13? or 6 of 11? i SEEM TO RECALL NOT ALL SEATS ARE FILLED
Jamie Palisades: (caps lock sorry)
Cindy Ecksol: I believe all seats ARE filled…am I wrong about that?
Jamie Palisades: 7 of 12, counting Nafi?
Cindy Ecksol: yes…
Jamie Palisades: well aa has 6, no? with 5 filled i think, but I am not the authority
Cindy Ecksol: ah, which reminds me: forgot to put swearing naftali in on the agenda….
Cindy Ecksol: why don’t we all look at the agenda now — notecard in the urn nest to the table
Cindy Ecksol: *next to
Cindy Ecksol: and if you have not yet touched the recorder on the table to consent to recording, please do so now
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
CLEOPATRA Xigalia has indicated consent to be recorded.
Micael Khandr: Point of information, Cindy: how often are the RA meetings?
Cindy Ecksol: Micael, the normal schedule is every two weeks.
Cindy Ecksol: you’ll notice on the agenda that I am suggesting a meeting next week. that’s because I will not be available the following week.
Jamie Palisades mutters – and meeting frequently might be tough in the sumer, or with 13 members, so that’ll be one issue for y’all.
Cindy Ecksol: but if the group would rather stick to the bi-weekly schedule, I will arrange for someone to sit in for me.
Jamie Palisades grins
Micael Khandr: OK–will we then have a three-week break ’til next meeting after that?
Cindy Ecksol: no, we’ll just make the next meeting on Sept 6, two weeks after.
Micael Khandr: OK–my wife was just wondering . . .
Cindy Ecksol: three weeks is too long a break.
Cindy Ecksol:
Pip Torok: can I suggest that the Chancellor reports in the Forum instead of to the RA if it isnt 1-weekly?
Cindy Ecksol: ah, yes — RL
Soro Dagostino: I suggest that we also use the group chat to let folk know of the meetings.
Cindy Ecksol: I just sent out notices, but we can do chat too…hold on an di will
Jamie Palisades hears Pip, will get clarity when we get to that agenda item
Pip Torok: ok
Soro Dagostino: I am saying a day or so before.
Cindy Ecksol: oh, I see
Jamie Palisades: ((Assuming that everyone reads the Forums has never bee a winning strategy for us))
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, would you be willing to take on that little task?
Soro Dagostino: Helelel
Cindy Ecksol: I believe you have group posting privileges
Soro Dagostino: After pulling teeth.
Cindy Ecksol: ah, here’s kedwyn!
Cindy Ecksol: I forget — is she an RA member?
Cindy Ecksol: And where did Gwyn go?
Micael Khandr: Gwyn said she had to switch locations and would be back.
Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn went to change computers.
Soro Dagostino: I thought.
Cindy Ecksol: all right, hopefully she will be back very shortly and we can officially start
Cindy Ecksol: but unofficially — anyone have any agenda comments?
Micael Khandr: Point of information, Cindy: who changes the CDS web site to reflect the merger?
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, can you answer that?
Cindy Ecksol: I’ve lost track…
Jamie Palisades: Micael, that’s my problem, and awaits the appointment of a webmasterm for which you will see a position notice out
Micael Khandr: OK–thsnks, Jamie.
Jamie Palisades: the existing legacy system is a little clunky to change quickly, though I am doing some things with the balky tools, in the short term. Thanks for the reminder, though
Cindy Ecksol: all right, I’m going to go ahead and start with items that are “information only” and will not require any kind of vote.
Naftali Torok: ok i am back sorry guys
Cindy Ecksol: please note that we are not a quorum, so we will not be able to approve anything binding
Naftali Torok: had rl tel here
Cindy Ecksol: also please note the question queue behind me. if you’d like to ask a question or make a comment, please click the big blue question mark to queue up and I’ll recognize speakers in order of queuing.
Cindy Ecksol: if you have not clicked th erecorder on the table to indicate recording consent, please do so now.
Cindy Ecksol: Future RA schedule: is next week at 0900 ok with you?
Naftali Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Micael Khandr: I’ll ask my wife . .
Pip Torok: fine with me
Cindy Ecksol: will will have to confirm with the others, but if I can get a quorum, we’ll do it then.
Soro Dagostino: ok
Cindy Ecksol: actually it just occurred to me: from now on I’m going to Doodle our RA meetings so that we’ll have positive feedback on who expects to attend
Cindy Ecksol hits her forehead and says “Duh!”
Cindy Ecksol: easier than just waiting around…
Pip Torok: quite!
Naftali Torok: doodle?
Joaquin Gustav: its ok for me too
Cindy Ecksol: Doodle is a tool for scheduling meetings — you will get an e-mail link from me Naf
Naftali Torok: i see
Cindy Ecksol: ok, I don’t think we need a quorum to swear Naftali in.
Soro Dagostino: I would think not.
Cindy Ecksol: naftali, do you have a copy of the affirmation?
Kedwyn Parmelee has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: naf?
Cindy Ecksol: you there?
Cindy Ecksol: if you would post your affirmation ito chat we can all cheer for you
Pip Torok: she may have crashed … ill check
Cindy Ecksol: no, she just accepted the card…
Solomon Mosely has indicated consent to be recorded.
Naftali Torok: sorry readingyour card
Naftali Torok: yes i am here
Pip Torok: she’s here …
Cindy Ecksol: ok, if you can post affirmation into chat we’ll be good
Naftali Torok: i missed it
Naftali Torok: sorry reading all the notes what do yu want from me
Naftali Torok: yes
Micael Khandr: Yes, what DO you want from us, Cindy?
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol: ok, naf, let’s try this: I’ll post — you just say “I do”
Cindy Ecksol: I, Naftali Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Naftali Torok: giggles
Naftali Torok: see i am a bad member….
Naftali Torok: but i am honest
Naftali Torok: ok there we go
Cindy Ecksol looks expectantly at Naf
Naftali Torok: I, Naftali Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Pip Torok: lol
Micael Khandr: I now pronounce you RAL and RA member.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you!
Cindy Ecksol: and congratulations
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Joaquin Gustav: bravo!
Pip Torok: congratulations!!
Soro Dagostino: WOOOOOT!!!!
Kedwyn Parmelee: .-‘`’-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-‘`’-.
Jamie Palisades claps
Naftali Torok: oeps that feels real
Cindy Ecksol: next item: Jamie, would you like to give your report?
Micael Khandr: It is downhill from here, Naf . . .
Soro Dagostino: hehehe
Naftali Torok: looks huilty at cindy who puts time into this winks(was in the kitchen drinking a quick soup)
Soro Dagostino: REally steeply
Jamie Palisades: Sure. Let me ask Pip for a clarification first
Jamie Palisades: Pip, you were sayign somethign about the format for these reports?
Jamie Palisades: how can we best do this?
Pip Torok: yes … if the timimg of the RA means you would have a problem delivering reports in a timely fashion … then publish them throught the Forums
Naftali Torok: gets a bit dissy looking at the question mar turning like mad
Jamie Palisades: got it. Will do.
Jamie Palisades: Ok, for this meeting then:
Pip Torok: fine
Jamie Palisades: Thank you, and again, congratulations to all elected, and a thank you to the majority
of you for your confidence in me, allowing me to serve CDS again. First general
reports, then on to govenment projects, and land.
Jamie Palisades: I have two general items, brief notes on the procedural status of the RA, and Al
Andalus.
Jamie Palisades: On the RA (as Cindy and I discussed) we need, and do not have, an LRA-appointed RA Archivist, to continue the work that Publius and Brian did to keep our web lists of current statutes in order…
Jamie Palisades: Passing laws has little practical merit if people can’t find them … I have made some candidate suggestions to Cindy.
Jamie Palisades: Also, let me report, for those of you who did not attend, that the CDS SC met and
confirmed Naftali Torok’s appointment to the RA,, * a n d * and the practicality of treating the AA-elected reps, this term, as a “faction” under our rules.
Jamie Palisades: I suggested that, so obviuosly agree.
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: let me point out, we only did that in order to retrofit our approved merger, rather awkwardly, into the existing faction-centered political structure of our laws.
Jamie Palisades: I mention this because all agreed, last term, that we need
to work on the laws, to make any future similar mergers more smooth.
Jamie Palisades: “We” means you, of course
Naftali Torok: nods
Jamie Palisades: We had some chats last term about constitutional amendments on the table, with varying approaches. I mention it just to remind us all that this is unfinished work.
Jamie Palisades: Other general item: Al Andalus operational merger issues. Let me just say that the
preliminary terraforming is done; that we are with Rose’s help converting AA rent boxes successfullly, in a way that should not affect the residents at all; and (as most know) we have a very nice inaugural ball there last week, so we’re off to a fine start.
Naftali Torok: yes
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: On to my second item — new government activities. This is a lead-in to budget talks
we will have after 1 September, as I expect to proposed some changes that will affect
the budget.
Jamie Palisades: Much of what do works, and is likely to continue as is You will have seen the posting for this term’s civil service positions: speaks for itself. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2528
Jamie Palisades: but there are some possible additions also
Jamie Palisades: traditionally we had one big events pool of funds
Jamie Palisades: and one big events czar
Jamie Palisades: czarina, in fact
Jamie Palisades: But I suggested something last term that I and we did not implement, and I plan to go
forward with it — a continuing decentralization of our events programming.
Jamie Palisades: details were posted here, last term: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2372.
Jamie Palisades: basically, region by region and culture-oriented citizen panels, who can spend some of
our budget, subject to admin oversight (so we are not hiring our cousins).
Jamie Palisades: So please expect some budget details for that, as well, in our early september meeting.
Jamie Palisades: The other new-ish matter for government operations is how we deal with “embassies”.
I’d like to bring some proposed actions to your next meeting, on that one, when Sonja
will be back with us, as it’s an area of special interest for her.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: my last item is land.
Jamie Palisades: In summary, AA is in good shape fiscally; I am about to open up and offer (under the commercial special-rent land program) some more of the unused CN space; and we’ll have some more terraforming of the new sims.
Jamie Palisades: Guild: I need to meet again with the Guild to understand their plans for their role, as they were mostly dormat last term. We may expect some GMP updating from them, it’s hoped. I find it a very helpful tool, as the volunteer NGO guideline it is, though as a very-small-group project, I am hesitant to give it the force of law.
Jamie Palisades: Finally, as to sims if the current 11 sim configuration proves economically stable and well rented, I hope to come to you nexty, as dissused some last term, with a proposal to extend the NFS city structure to the East – basically, at the back wall of the Schloss.
Jamie Palisades: that’s it thanks for your time.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks jamie!
Cindy Ecksol: questions?
Jamie Palisades: and bear in mind there is VERY little i do here that you can’t undo if you wish
Cindy Ecksol: (please queue)
Cindy Ecksol: no questions?
Naftali Torok: great thanks jamie
Naftali Torok: (still reading)
Cindy Ecksol: all right then, moving on….
Cindy Ecksol: Joaquin pointed out to me in IM that he also needs to be sworn in today
Naftali Torok: tru
Cindy Ecksol: so if you will all indulge us, I’ll ask him to post his affirmation
Cindy Ecksol: Joaquin?
Joaquin Gustav: yes
Joaquin Gustav: I, Joaquin Gustav, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Micael Khandr: Bravo!
Cindy Ecksol: thank you and congratulations!
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Naftali Torok: congrats collegue
Kedwyn Parmelee: .-‘`’-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-‘`’-.
Joaquin Gustav: ty
Pip Torok: bravo joaquin!!
Cindy Ecksol: all right, old business
Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn had planned to report on the in-world status board, but she IM’d me this mornign that she would not be able to make it to the meeting
Cindy Ecksol: so we will just defer that until next meeting
Cindy Ecksol: any other old business that I should have put here?
Naftali Torok: whats the in-world status board?
Cindy Ecksol: Naf, take a look at minutes from last meeting. it was a suggestion that Carolyn had for helping citizens know which RA members were inworld at any given time
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Cindy Ecksol: Soro?
Naftali Torok: i see good plan
Soro Dagostino: There were a couple of items from SC –
Pip Torok: Its a system whereby anyone can tell whther an RA member is onworld at any time
Soro Dagostino: Claude was not here to present them.
Cindy Ecksol: ah, yes…and he did not request time on the agenda….
Soro Dagostino: thanks.
Naftali Torok: yehe just logged off….
Cindy Ecksol: and I do not see him here either unfortunately
Cindy Ecksol: I will follow up with him and see if he wants to present next week
Cindy Ecksol: ok, concerns of RA members…
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Micael Khandr
Cindy Ecksol: micael?
Micael Khandr: Do we have any kind of a census?
Cindy Ecksol: ah, great question!
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, can you tell us where we’re at with this? I know we had one a few terms back….
Jamie Palisades: posted citizen list, by statute
Cindy Ecksol: some really great work….
Micael Khandr: TY–ext we’ll talk about death panels . . .
Cindy Ecksol rolls her eyes
Naftali Torok: grins
Micael Khandr: Jamie–is it possible to gather info from each land-ownwer and citizen?
Micael Khandr: More than name?
Kedwyn Parmelee makes sure she is not afk
Cindy Ecksol: Micael I believe that when we did the census for the development of the GMP we had a questionairre
Cindy Ecksol: of course participation is voluntary….and so is the collecting of the data
Cindy Ecksol: would you be interested in taking this on as a project?
Micael Khandr: Cindy, I was thinking along the lines of a publication (or web site) that has names, photos, locations, and interets of citizens/lan-owners to help in community-building.
Micael Khandr: Yes.
Cindy Ecksol: ah, very interesting idea! I love it!
Micael Khandr: I would need the help of that webmaster Jamie is going to hire . . .
Pip Torok: a sort of extension to the profile of each citizen?
Naftali Torok: nice
Micael Khandr: Yes, in one place, Pip.
Jamie Palisades: Micael – we do hav some data pricacy practices, so there’d be limits – but let me take this off line with you, as I have some similar projects in incubation
Cindy Ecksol: and if you are willing to collect the data and help the webmaster organie it, that would be great.
Micael Khandr: Perfect–thanks, Jamie.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, great!
Micael Khandr: Now, about the death panels . . .
Cindy Ecksol: Micael, I will wait for you to ask specifically to have this as an agenda item when you are ready to report
Pip Torok: !!! …
Micael Khandr: OK, Cindy.
Cindy Ecksol: and about the death panels….well, let’s just say that those were never contemplated in the propsed plan
Cindy Ecksol: sorry, Pip, inside joke for US citizens….
Micael Khandr: Rats . . .I’ll break it to Sarah Palin later . . .
Cindy Ecksol: any other concerns of RA members?
Pip Torok wonders what these “death panels” are ..
Kedwyn Parmelee: well i am sure u must have them with your evil socialized medicine Pip
Pip Torok realises what Sarah Palin has been saying about the UK NHS …
Pip Torok: well that evil scheme has saved me since i was 7!
Kedwyn Parmelee: don’t u know if stephen hawking lived in UK he would….wait he does LOL
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: ok, concerns of citizens?
Jamie Palisades smiles. I might stay for a few minutes after adjornment to follow up on Micael’s citizen profiles issue
Micael Khandr: TY
Cindy Ecksol: wow, quiet crowd today!
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, can you think of any announcements that Rose would want made?
Micael Khandr: Can’t vote . .
Jamie Palisades: Cindy, we get the weekly events both into the notecards …
Jamie Palisades: … send aorund and also into the CDS google calendar
Jamie Palisades: .. which is linked on the CDS website
Cindy Ecksol: yes, of course
Jamie Palisades: .. preparations for Oktoberfest underway that’s about it for now
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you
Cindy Ecksol: ah, I do have one issue myself
Cindy Ecksol: we need to have an RA archivist who will handle at least the updating of the portal when we pass legislation, and perhaps posting of minutes as well
Cindy Ecksol: I’ve talked to a couple of people and will speak to a few more.
Cindy Ecksol: the archivist is appointed by RA, so when I find someone who is willing I will let RA know and we will approve
Cindy Ecksol: if you know someone who is willing please IM me….
Micael Khandr: If we have a quorum . . .
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: hopefully it will be easier after the end of the summer
Cindy Ecksol: that’s all I have.
Cindy Ecksol: anything else? or can we have a motion to adjourn?
Soro Dagostino: Move Adjounment
Micael Khandr: Second
Pip Torok: seconded
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: YAY!
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Soro Dagostino:
Cindy Ecksol: excellent
Cindy Ecksol: doesn’t always go by my time schedule, but I’m encouraged that we’re relatively efficient
Jamie Palisades: rigth then
Cindy Ecksol: at least compared to some meetings of the past!
Micael Khandr: Nice work, Cindy–ahead of schedule!’

Permalink.

RA Meeting 23 August 2009

RA Minutes 23 Aug 2009

Cindy Ecksol is in the chair.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: I see we have a quorum, so let’s get started.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: agenda and some other documents are in the urn under the table — please click to get your copies
Naftali Torok: hoppaaaaaaa, present…..comingg
Lilith Ivory: Hi Wasp
Cindy Ecksol: and also pleas eclick the recorder on top of the table to indicate your consent to be recorded
Wasp Thor: hello, everyone
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Joaquin Gustav has indicated consent to be recorded.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy I hope that isn’t a practical joke
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Naftali Torok: goooooood evening /afternoon/morning alll
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t want to be raking thru the ashes of someone’s ancestor
Cindy Ecksol: uh oh….what, stui?
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: urn was Moon’s idea….
Naftali Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: I promise no ashes
Wasp Thor has indicated consent to be recorded.
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: in the olden days they kept important documents in urns…haven’t you heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Naftali Torok: ah talking about the mundus/?
Pip Torok: England nor Aussie wd give you any!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have heard of the dead sea salt
Pip Torok: like your outfit Wasp
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, could you please touch the recorder?
Naftali Torok: thats great for your hair stui
Wasp Thor: thank you
Naftali Torok: lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: one day I was walking home from work and ended up spending ?120 on that stuff
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t even want it
Cindy Ecksol: ok, let’s get started.
Cindy Ecksol: chit chat later — I will need to leave on time today
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *whispers*
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: administrative details: for thos ewho haven’t been here, please note the big question mark behind me to my right.
Cindy Ecksol: that is the “question queue” so if you wish to speak, please click it and I will recognize speakers in order.
Cindy Ecksol: we also have a timer, but i prefer not ot use it unless we really need it.
Naftali Torok: yes i am sitting on it now….to keep an eye on it….
Cindy Ecksol: one item I left off the agenda: we need to swear in Stui and Wasp
Naftali Torok: tru
Cindy Ecksol: I propose we do that first.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: no swearing – ladies present
Cindy Ecksol: Stui and Wasp, if you clicked on the urn, you received a copy of the “affirmation” we use.
Naftali Torok: lets hope they are quicker then me, last time…..
Cindy Ecksol: could you please add your name in the appropriate place and paste it into chat now?
Cindy Ecksol: while they are doing that if the rest of you could review the agenda and indicate whether you have any additions or changes that should speed things along
StuiChicanne Darkstone: The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state. One of the freedoms embodied in our Constitution is that of religious choice as specified in one of its Founding Documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Out of our respect for diverse religious beliefs about taking oaths as well as for RA members who may be non-religious, the following affirmation does not contain any referrences to any supernatural entities. However, anyone taking office who may wish to do so may add the words “So help me God” [or any other entity] at the end, if they wish so. They may also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined.
—
Please paste the following text into chat:
I, Stui, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulato
Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui! congratulations and welcome to RA
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Naftali Torok: hourah 3 x
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think I pasted too much
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and yet too little
Naftali Torok: better too much than too less
Cindy Ecksol: you did fine
Cindy Ecksol: Wasp? are you with us?
Pip Torok: APPLAUSE
Sonja Strom: Welcome
Wasp Thor: yes
Soro Dagostino: George would approve.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: rs, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Pip Torok: hi Gwyn!
Wasp Thor: I just have to figure out how to paste it to chat
Wasp Thor: LOL
zaphod Enoch: welcome
Cindy Ecksol: ah, I see
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would bow but the outfit doesn’t allow it
Rose Springvale: just in the chat bar Wasp
Rose Springvale: it will fit
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol: would you like me to paste for you and you can just say “yes”?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: like a cheese wire
Wasp Thor: yes thank you
Cindy Ecksol: I, Wasp Thor, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Wasp Thor: Yes
zaphod Enoch: welcome
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that Cindy has personality problems and says hi to all, btw
Rose Springvale: bravo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: Thank you! and congratulations and welcome to RA
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Naftali Torok: welcome wasp
Sonja Strom: Welcome Wasp
Jamie Palisades smiles and applauds
Lilith Ivory applauds
Pip Torok: welcome
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome indeed, Wasp
Joaquin Gustav: congratulations, Wasp
Cindy Ecksol: all right, moving along. any changes to agenda?
Soro Dagostino: Welcom Wasp
Pip Torok: “glad to have you on board” ….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
Cindy Ecksol: no agenda changes?
Naftali Torok: not for me
Cindy Ecksol: ok, future RA schedule.
Pip Torok: nor from me
Soro Dagostino: Move approval of the Agenda
Cindy Ecksol: Sept 6 is Labor Day in US and I will not be available. But that’s our current schedule
Cindy Ecksol: whoops, yes Soro is right
Cindy Ecksol: can we have a second?
Carolyn Saarinen: Second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Wasp Thor: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Jamie Palisades raises hand for perhaps-dumb question
Naftali Torok: i will not be available next week
Sonja Strom: aye
Naftali Torok: 30 august , rl concert
Cindy Ecksol: motion passes.
Cindy Ecksol: ok…
Cindy Ecksol: dates.
Cindy Ecksol: Naf, no meeting next week
Cindy Ecksol: proposal is for Sept 6 or 13
Naftali Torok: oki
Naftali Torok: clear
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, did you havea comment?
Pip Torok: propose sept 6
Jamie Palisades: Sorry if Im; not up to speed, but did yuo elect a statuoty Deputy LRA for this term? That would matter, in terms of the feasibility of meetigns without Cindy.
Carolyn Saarinen: Usually fortnighly Naf
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops I don’t remember if we did or not…
Cindy Ecksol: we have not yest done so.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m away camping on 20/21st sept so it works for me
Jamie Palisades smiles – may I suggest you do, fairly soon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely a good suggestion
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, I don’t believe there’s a constitutional imperative for that, although we can certainly do so.
Jamie Palisades smiles. Only a statutory one,
Cindy Ecksol: wow, did we do that?
Cindy Ecksol: then I guess we should elect one.
Jamie Palisades grins, points at red haired poruguese senator
Jamie Palisades: her fault
Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you for bringing it up.
Jamie Palisades: (and not a bad idea if the LRA ever got incapacitated)
Sonja Strom: hi Idetoshi
Naftali Torok: still trying to translate: statuoty Deputy LRA f
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Pip Torok: hello idetoshi
Jamie Palisades: statutory, required by statute. Sorry Nafi
Idetoshi Kenzo: hi all
Rose Springvale: smiles at naf… person to stand in if Cindy is absent
Cindy Ecksol: ok, if no objections, let’s do it.
Naftali Torok: i see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections from me
Cindy Ecksol: In view of his past experience, I would like to nominate my fellow faction member Soro Dagostino as deputy LRA
Naftali Torok: smiles back thankful at rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn would definitely second Soro
Cindy Ecksol: can i get a second on that?
Pip Torok: second
Joaquin Gustav: i second soro too
Wasp Thor: I second it
Cindy Ecksol: thank you Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn points at her own words
Cindy Ecksol: any discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Yay for Soro
Pip Torok: move to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…. Soro should at least say if he’s available
Cindy Ecksol: Soro?
Naftali Torok: ok for soro
Naftali Torok: no sorrow for soro…..
Soro Dagostino: Yes — thank you for the opportunity
Sonja Strom: or if he wants to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Naf ))))))
Cindy Ecksol:
Naftali Torok: when he is not sailing….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay, Soro!
Pip Torok: oooo! Gwyneth Llewelyn: (very!)
Cindy Ecksol: lol! soro is multitasking again i think….but he indicated to me that he would be willing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, goodie.
Naftali Torok: great
Cindy Ecksol: I believe Pip has moved for a vote
Soro Dagostino: I said thank you for the opportunity
Naftali Torok: looks around, who’s there finally….
Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye for Soro as Deputy LRA
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pip on the move, sorry
Wasp Thor: I second it
StuiChicanne Darkstone: just so long as it isn’t me doing the stand in – no one would have a clue what I am talking about
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor…
Pip Torok: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: Aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Wasp Thor: AYE
Naftali Torok: lol same for me Stui, but yes Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Stui
Soro Dagostino: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes I’m one for Soro
Cindy Ecksol: ok, motion carries
Cindy Ecksol: congratulations, Soro!
Sonja Strom: Congratulations and thanks, Soro.
Cindy Ecksol: now next question: I will be out on Sept 6 — can you chair the meeting??
Soro Dagostino: Thank you all.
Pip Torok: yes congratulations
Soro Dagostino: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cindy
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: hey, I’m a practical type!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro that’s the deep end there
Rose Springvale: will you have quorum?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (good, Cindy, good!)
Naftali Torok: mumbles…..boter bij de vis( butter with the fish, as we say in dutch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ))
Lilith Ivory: hehe
StuiChicanne Darkstone: quorum sounds like an aftershave
Naftali Torok: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Stui
Cindy Ecksol: unless anyone has objections to the Doodle polling method, I intend to do that for every meeting
Rose Springvale saves that phrase…
Naftali Torok: imao
Soro Dagostino: Yes Ms LRA — I will be available.
Cindy Ecksol: so we will know whether there is aquorum or not ahead of time
Naftali Torok: ecellent Cind
Pip Torok: great idea Doodl
Joaquin Gustav: Doodle worked
Naftali Torok: it worked great for me
Wasp Thor: as long as we have dancing and latin music I say aye
Carolyn Saarinen: I think it IS an aftershave
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Cindy Ecksol: it certainly worked for me — was much easier than showing up and wondering who else would be here!
Naftali Torok: uses nose….
Naftali Torok: spares us time
Naftali Torok: gives more fun in the meetings
Cindy Ecksol: and also an easy way to request a 7-day vote: just poll “no” and you get it automatically
Carolyn Saarinen: Works for me
Cindy Ecksol: old way is fine too — e-mail to LRA
Cindy Ecksol: all right, great!
Cindy Ecksol: moving on.
Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn has an update on the in-world status board investigation
Cindy Ecksol: Caro?
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok
Carolyn Saarinen: I wont take up everyone’s time with all my notes on this, but they are available if any one wants them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens…
Cindy Ecksol: (members please use Question Queue to ask questions rather than interrupt persentation)
Carolyn Saarinen: We obviously have people in our community who could make such a system for us, but those with the ability are likely to be busy. If we can get an off-the-shelf system at reasonable cost, I think we should buy. It would save time.
Naftali Torok: yes kisk my A…..::)
Naftali Torok: kick
Carolyn Saarinen: I’ve spoken to the creator of the system which seems to best suit our needs. He tells me we can have a set up for use in multiple locations/multiple avatars for L$1000.
Carolyn Saarinen: So, how do we feel about that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s insanely cheap!!!
Jamie Palisades: Not going to be a problem from the budget end.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Cindy Ecksol: Soro?
Pip Torok: certainly reasobaly priced
Naftali Torok: time= money, lets do it
Soro Dagostino: Do we want to consider the new phone system set up by Lindens as part of the project?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder if I say I’ll pose for a foto for his vendor if he’ll take a bit off the price
Naftali Torok: ah
Carolyn Saarinen: This is the one that has Away and Busy options as well as just on/Off line
Naftali Torok: now thats an intersting project indeed
Naftali Torok: pointing at the phone thing
Cindy Ecksol: I looked at that phoen thing and decided I definitely do NOT want to do it.
Carolyn Saarinen: Everyone’s pics go on the boards stui
Naftali Torok: but lets first end this subject
Cindy Ecksol: yes, thank you naf
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh what shall I wear ?
Naftali Torok: does the system also have other communication toold
Pip Torok: im with Cindy on the phone thing
Cindy Ecksol: are there any objections to the IDEA of an in-world status board?
Naftali Torok: like mail/ im/ notes etc
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I love the idea
Pip Torok: none from me
Jamie Palisades: Hi, bunny.
Rose Springvale: hi brian!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections from me at all, rather the contrary…
Wasp Thor: good idea
Joaquin Gustav: lets do it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian ))9 hello
StuiChicanne Darkstone: so long as I don’t get stalkers
Lilith Ivory: Hi Brian
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui
Soro Dagostino: Move approval
Sonja Strom: Second
Brian Livingston waves quietly
Gwyneth Llewelyn can get stalked by anyone, just look at my blog, it always says where I am
Naftali Torok: sends a handkiss to brian
Pip Torok: (your stalkers have leavers!:)
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of acquiring the online status board system for $100L?
Cindy Ecksol: whoops…$1000L
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$1000, and aye !
Carolyn Saarinen: 1000
Sonja Strom: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Wasp Thor: AYE
Naftali Torok: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui !
Pip Torok: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: Aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok, great!
Jamie Palisades raises hand on the board status thing
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Shall we take off line the exact details of whetehr the owner matters, archiving, getting reimbursed , all that?
Wasp Thor: where does the momey come from
Jamie Palisades: Wasp, we will reimburse
Cindy Ecksol: Yes, I was just going to suggest that Carolyn get together with you and Rose and work out details
Jamie Palisades: but also with some of these devices the ID of the object “owner” matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Jamie Palisades: ok, good, and thanks Caro
Carolyn Saarinen: So, I’ll get back to the creator.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We always have the “special avatars”…. the content manager, etc
StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe my box can recieve fan mail too ?
Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn, I’ll leave it in your hands to figure it out with them and report back to us. will need to find locations too.
Jamie Palisades nods
Cindy Ecksol: so still work to be done, but let’s move it forward
Cindy Ecksol: thanks for the great work on this.
Carolyn Saarinen: I can ask him to make delivery to whoever we like I guess
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Joaquin Gustav
Cindy Ecksol: Joaquin?
Joaquin Gustav: ty,
Joaquin Gustav: Did the creator ralk about updates
Joaquin Gustav: talk
Pip Torok: (good point)
Jamie Palisades: can we take that under advisement with Caro and get back to you on details?
Naftali Torok: good point Joa
Carolyn Saarinen: He said he could add other functions later if we needed them, for a fee. will ask about automatic updates on the basic system.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you jamie
Naftali Torok: nods
Joaquin Gustav: ty carolyn
Cindy Ecksol: I think the fee is so low that it’s worth paying for enhancements if necessary
Cindy Ecksol: ok, moving on
Jamie Palisades nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: next we have Jamie to talk about regional event expenditures
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie?
Pip Torok: (lovely feeling … bespoke software!)
Jamie Palisades: Roght, let’ see if I can do this one in under the alloted 15 mins
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: This is about augmentation to our events budget,
Jamie Palisades: Last year we used this events budget:
a. Major events budget – One per term (like Oktoberfest), for
a total of L$ 60000/yr, so L$ 5000/mo
b. One funded social event per month – L$ 5000/mo
c. I recreation event per sim per year (like skiing) at L$
5000 x 4 / 12 = $L 1666/mo
Jamie Palisades: Bear with me, it’s background
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: That totals 11666/month. We probably spent about two third of

(continued)
Last edited by Cindy Ecksol on Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: RA Minutes 23 Aug 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:04 pm
(continued)

that total, last term. Even then, though, We noted then that we were spending about half of what our conservative-projected revenus suggests we ought to spend, on local culture, events and education.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if there’s a bear with you Jamie it’ll make you quicker
Jamie Palisades: I think of you more as a cross than a bear, kitten.
Jamie Palisades: …
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Jamie Palisades: We easily can support more. So, one of the elements I plan to include in next meeting’s planned budget for the term is a set of extra line items.
Jamie Palisades: I chatted with Cindy about this, and we thought it would be a good idea to mention them earlier, at this meeting, so that we can get any initial feedback or reactions now, instead of waiting for next meeting, when it might get lost in all of the budget details.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: I will propose that we set aside portions of an expanded events budget for four citizen-led small volunteer panels, which (as Gwyneth and I discussed last term) would relly be a delegation of executive branch power, subject to myself and Sudane watching administratively.
Jamie Palisades: The exact numbers are in consultation now — remember I am
making civil service appointments this next week, and want my own team to be consulted — and we can talk about the right *numbers* at our budget consultation meeting, next time. For now, though, I’d like any feedback or reactions to the *concept* :
Jamie Palisades: : and to be specific, on this planned scheme:
Jamie Palisades: 1. A cultural & Arts commission, to seek, develop, consider and be a funding source for activities involving our cultural and museum NGOs, and any embassy/inter-sim ambassador activities
Jamie Palisades: 2. An Alpine regional commission to seek, develop, consider and be a funding source for themed activities in the NFS and AM sims.
Jamie Palisades: 3. An Andalusian regional commission to seek, develop, consider and be a funding source for themed activities in the AA sims.
Jamie Palisades: 4. A Roman regional commission to seek, develop, consider and be a funding source for themed activities in the CN and LA sims. …
Naftali Torok: wow great plans
Jamie Palisades: I plan to propose that the funding be roughly commensurate with the populations in question; and that some regional events (and their budgets) be devolved down to those panels. I also am considering suggesting that one or two chairs for each of those panels be stipended by us, as I suspect some work will be involved. I’d expect their decisions to be made in an informal but publicly transparent process; probably would attend some of their meetigns myself; and we would require that persons who are seeking funding abstain from any vote on their own proposals.
Jamie Palisades: so :
Jamie Palisades: That’s the basic idea. It may change due to the consultations noted above, but still, please expect to see it built into next meeting’s budget plan Comments?
Naftali Torok: hey lets read jamie
Naftali Torok: yu go fast
Gwyneth Llewelyn: )
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Naftali Torok: not fair…..ronfl
StuiChicanne Darkstone: allow me to be that bear
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn?
Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor
Jamie Palisades: done open for slings and arrows, Ms LRA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I just wish to thank Jamie, for using this term to roll out the huge proposal
Pip Torok: sounds well thought out but wd appreciate the days to really considert the implications
Gwyneth Llewelyn: speaking for myself, I’m quite in favour of that budget!
Cindy Ecksol: (please use the queue if you have comments)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I’d like to understand the reporting method
Gwyneth Llewelyn: from each comission to the Exec
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and know if at least the Exec will present a short briefing on the commisions’ work to the RA)
Jamie Palisades: (I’ll hold responses for a bit, then make then when Cindy likes)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess the answer is “yes”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Jamie Palisades: and yes
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, why don’t you respond to each?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, that’s all ? very good idea, Jamie, thanks so much!
Jamie Palisades: heh heh I just did
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: that was easy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for the answer
Cindy Ecksol: ok, Stui, I believe you’re next
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY me !
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I just wonder if it is necessary to have a seperate commission for culture and arts when you have one for each set of sims?
Naftali Torok: nods
Naftali Torok: worth to considder
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh
Jamie Palisades: Stui, we have some stuff in CDS — the museums, a sculpture walk, and “embassy” activity come to mind – that are not really them-specific, and affect everyone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: seems like a level of admin that would be worked upon where it could be resolved regionally
Jamie Palisades: *theme-specific
Jamie Palisades: but it;s worth giving a seond though
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I also like a theme-neutral over-arching group …
Naftali Torok: nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s good for cohesion.
Jamie Palisades: fooey+ s e c o n d t h o u g h t sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, speaking strictly for myself, I’d support it.
Naftali Torok: hi Micael
Rose Springvale: hey Micael
Pip Torok: hi Micael
Cindy Ecksol: ok, Carolyn, you are next up.
Wasp Thor: Hi Micael
StuiChicanne Darkstone: is it designed to function for CDS ?
Jamie Palisades: this is exactly the kind of feedabck I was hoping for
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Carolyn Saarinen
Jamie Palisades: how so, Stui?
Micael Khandr: Hi Pip.
Micael Khandr: Hi Wasp
Soro Dagostino: Hello Micael
Micael Khandr: Hi Soro
Micael Khandr: Sorry I’m late, Cindy
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Cindy Ecksol: happy to see you
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well my query is, will the arts and cultural commission work towards seeking out opportunities to expand arts fully or work towards funding that which is already functioning ?
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: ah
Jamie Palisades: up to them we hope for creativity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (very good question!)
Jamie Palisades: i expect they’d support existing stuff … as part of that … it it works
Cindy Ecksol: I believe Carolyn has a question….Caro, you have the floor
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it would be rather unfair to have an arts commission that cannot assist those with opportunities but no present basis if it is using it’s funds on upkeep primarily
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Carolyn Saarinen: Thanks, first of all:
Carolyn Saarinen: Yay, we’ve won the Ashes! Eat it Ponting!
Carolyn Saarinen: Now
Brian Livingston pokes zaphod
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: (were they in that urn?)
Jamie Palisades: heh
Naftali Torok: lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *checks his agenda for particles*
Carolyn Saarinen: Are we also making provision for educational activities that aren’t specifically cultural?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *sniffs*
zaphod Enoch: sorry had to be somewhere else to solve problems
Naftali Torok: looks around in front of screen…
Cindy Ecksol: great question, Carolyn!
Carolyn Saarinen: The other day, a citizen pointed out to me that it’s been repeatedly suggested that there be classes available in the sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah! That’s from the Guild budget!
Jamie Palisades: Carolyn, I’d hope we define it that way, yes.
Pip Torok: such as formal classes caro?
Soro Dagostino: sigh
Carolyn Saarinen: such as building/scripting
Jamie Palisades: we have had some exp[eriments with classes through the CDS Guild
Pip Torok: (what Id meant )
Carolyn Saarinen: This was being talked about when I was a CN resident
Jamie Palisades: haven;t always worked out in terms of turnout though
Naftali Torok: yesss, lets pick that idea up again
Jamie Palisades: they tried sort version:” willing teachers, absence of good PR & thus students
Gwyneth Llewelyn is trying to get Moon to come in-world and explain how the Guild classes work
Pip Torok: hi Delia!!
Naftali Torok: Delia
Cindy Ecksol: ok, let’s see…I think Soro is up next. Soro, you have the floor
Naftali Torok: are there still guild classes going on nowadays?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, yes
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Naftali Torok: mm
Pip Torok: mmm from me too …
Naftali Torok: there s moon
Naftali Torok: lol looks at ceiling where the moon is raising….
Soro Dagostino: I am a little concerned that regional rivalries might commence.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Naftali Torok: looks for sunglasses
Moon Adamant: hello all
Pip Torok: id suggest crossing that bridge if we ever came to it, Soro …
Micael Khandr: Regional rivalries?
Rose Springvale: hi moon
Lilith Ivory: Hi Moon
Wasp Thor: Hi Moon
Naftali Torok: monny
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: zaphod Enoch
Naftali Torok: same q here: Micael Khandr: Regional rivalries?
Cindy Ecksol: I’m skipping Stui right now because he has had a chance to speak.
Cindy Ecksol: Zaph, you had a comment or question?
Naftali Torok: ajj
zaphod Enoch: as for the educational questions i moght be of help
Soro Dagostino: The “Local groups” might lose sight of the integration of CDS.
Soro Dagostino: Done.
Micael Khandr: How are “local groups” defined?
zaphod Enoch: as be still connected to munich i know thea have an educational language shool there called DESK
Carolyn Saarinen: Well, the regions DO differ, cultural/educational rivalry might be a good thing.
zaphod Enoch: it would be great to have a dependance of the desk in cds
Micael Khandr: Just because I don’t like fog . . .
Cindy Ecksol:
zaphod Enoch: offering language courses
Naftali Torok: now that might be an idea, to look for dependances in cds/ Aa
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I believe that perhaps to have a budget sent to each region that can only be used for cultural and art would work better as then it allows areas to save, and even to agree transfer of funds to other regions, rather than it being arranged by who is capable of bring to the table a proposal. Either that or to play to strengths using regions best suited to cultural events and then using other spaces when it is a region specific event.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, might I suggest that we’re getting into some detail here that is at a bit deeper level than we can handle in this forum?
Jamie Palisades: Ms LRA, I have a feeling we could go all day on this one. Maybe I shoudl post to Forums, so we can have more chat there?
Cindy Ecksol: What I’d like to suggest is that we take this conversation onto the forums
Pip Torok: agree cindy
Jamie Palisades chuckles
Cindy Ecksol: ah, thanks, jamie!
Micael Khandr: Agreed.
Naftali Torok: agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices how Cindy and Jamie are in sync
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
zaphod Enoch: well whatever
Jamie Palisades: if only, Red, if only
Cindy Ecksol: not a bad thing…and i did NOT prompt that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks all.
Soro Dagostino: Motion to postpone.
Cindy Ecksol: and thanks to Jamie for brining this forward
Micael Khandr: Can we discuss Jamie and Cindy on the forums, too?
Pip Torok: second
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Jamie Palisades: Soro? not really needed – no action item on table will occur in budget presentation
Wasp Thor: aye
Micael Khandr: Aye, aye
Jamie Palisades: but hey, knock yourselfs out
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Cindy Ecksol: true…but good to close discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye ? but I believe that the Exec has just presented a “draft overview” really
Jamie Palisades nods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, well, details will follow…
Naftali Torok: oki
Cindy Ecksol: thank you all….and please DO get in the habit of checking the forums for ongoing discussion
Cindy Ecksol: it’s a good thing!
Soro Dagostino: so long as its over.
Cindy Ecksol: next….
Jamie Palisades dusts off chair in plebe section, sits down carefully so as not to poke self in butt with sword
Cindy Ecksol: I believe Naftali would like to inroduce a bill to change election dates. Please note that this is a “first reading” and I would like to suggest in advance that we not vote today on this
Cindy Ecksol: but let’s hear Naftali first. Naf?
Naftali Torok: tries not to become tooo enthousiat……..looking at her rl calendar in future…..
Naftali Torok: oh yes
Naftali Torok: lets see
Naftali Torok: Whereas there seems to be general agreement that the current election schedule forces campaigning into times of the year when most citizens are more distracted by their real lives than usual, we propose the following:
Amend Article I, Section 2 of the CDS Constitution to read:
“New RAs shall take office on 1 June and 1 December.”
Naftali Torok: smiles…
Cindy Ecksol: thank you naf
Cindy Ecksol: do we have a second to naftali’s motion?
Naftali Torok: but totally agress with what she has written
Pip Torok: second
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, pip.
Wasp Thor: I second it
Cindy Ecksol: discussion?
Micael Khandr: Being new–when would campaigning be then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, everything else would start one month earlier?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. campagning; roll call, etc
Naftali Torok: and not in the bussy xmas time
Micael Khandr: May 1 and Nove 1 then?
Naftali Torok: or in the summer vacation times
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would think it best to hold the whole process in the new year
Micael Khandr: Why, Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: for personally I am very busy before Christmas
Pip Torok: how wd this affect oktober fest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my work it’s the very busiest time
Naftali Torok: yes but thats just why….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: OktoberPArtyFair
Cindy Ecksol: campaigning would be mostly post-oktoberfest
Cindy Ecksol: which was one of the reasons for picking these dates
Naftali Torok: in between okt fest and xams
StuiChicanne Darkstone: from October – december it’s chaotic
Moon Adamant: sorry all
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: zaphod Enoch
Naftali Torok: ajjj did we forgot about Moon?
Cindy Ecksol: no….
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: Moon left.
Naftali Torok: mm
zaphod Enoch: i do have bigger building probs in the biergarten
Cindy Ecksol: OK, Soro, did you have a question on this?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: why not Jan start for Feb? which is always a bit less busy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She doesnt have a lot of free time; if we come back to the subject of classes later, Moon might log in again
zaphod Enoch: allmy builds are send beack to me
Rose Springvale: stui, that’s what it is now
Cindy Ecksol: (queue please)
Cindy Ecksol: we are discussing Naftali’s proposal
Naftali Torok: great gwyn thanks
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, you have the floor
zaphod Enoch: would be good if anybody can figure out what is happening
Soro Dagostino: It was requested to present the motion – while I was looking — it got done.
Soro Dagostino: done.
Cindy Ecksol: Zap, do you have a question on this topic?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
Cindy Ecksol: Sonja, Zaph is passing on this…you have the floor
Sonja Strom: I would like to let everybody know there is a poll and conversation about this topic in the CDS forum, here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2534 Thank you.
zaphod Enoch: nope sorry i did wrong
Naftali Torok: ok here is the motion again: Whereas there seems to be general agreement that the current election schedule forces campaigning into times of the year when most citizens are more distracted by their real lives than usual, we propose the following:
Amend Article I, Section 2 of the CDS Constitution to read:
“New RAs shall take office on 1 June and 1 December.”
Cindy Ecksol: thank you sonja
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In theory, I have absolutely no problem with the changes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In practice, I wonder if we shouldn’t do a broader poll?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. a formal referendum…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Changing election dates is a major thing,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and
Carolyn Saarinen nods
Cindy Ecksol: lol! we can use doodle!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eeek
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pip Torok: doodle WOULD be neater!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it would also require changing some of the clauses on the AA/CDS agreement
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. instead of 6 months for the transition phase,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there would be only 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a very minor thing though
Naftali Torok: mmmm
Naftali Torok: nods
Pip Torok: a “short parliament” …
Cindy Ecksol: ok, good point.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: Rose, you had a question or comment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m ok with doing the poll on Doodle, although, as a matter of principle, I don’t like that we start using a lot of off-world tools
Rose Springvale: two actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I’m finished)
Rose Springvale: one, i’m sure the AA CDS agreement is amenable to shortened transition
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (go ahead, Rose )
Naftali Torok: agree with gwyn
Rose Springvale: but more importantly
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Rose too
Rose Springvale: i’m very much opposed to taking more off world
Rose Springvale: to doodle or elsewhere
Rose Springvale: we are in SL to be in SL, nto on the net all the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her mouth*
Pip Torok: what wd you propose Rose?
Rose Springvale: i don’t even like the forums, as you all know
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bravo!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Micael Khandr: Brava?
Rose Springvale: anything official we do should be done with total transparency in world. imho
Rose Springvale: done
Jamie Palisades smiles – CSDF favors direct citizen referenda now? And offworld?
Naftali Torok: must say i only started to read them regularly last weeks
Cindy Ecksol: good point
Cindy Ecksol: ok, if we want to do a poll, we can certainly do it in-world as we did for the GMP survey
Micael Khandr: We have forums? (just kidding)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I find forums to be unregulated bitch fests normally
Naftali Torok: good idea
Naftali Torok: and fun as well
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
Naftali Torok: it makes us creative inworld
Cindy Ecksol: Sonja? you have the floor
Pip Torok: yes … but they do get news and discussion going Stu ….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (times change, Jamie )
Sonja Strom: I see one problem with a Doodle poll, which is that it would *not* require a confirmation the participant was a citizen of the CDS. I kind of wonder why it would be in any way better than the poll already existing in the CDS forum. Thank you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh excellent point, Sonja!
Cindy Ecksol: yes, so true!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Naftali Torok: pip not everybody has that much time….
Cindy Ecksol: it was just a thought
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but would you go to a tabloid newspaper to gain your insight ?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie?
Cindy Ecksol: (and then Soro and then I’m going to call “time”)
Micael Khandr: Cough . . .
Cindy Ecksol: looks like we lost jamie…

(continued)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Minutes 23 Aug 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:07 pm
(continued)

Jamie Palisades smiles. Two quick things
Jamie Palisades: nope
Cindy Ecksol: or not
Naftali Torok: whisles at jamie
Naftali Torok: get a wake
Jamie Palisades: 1. as to doodle, I think we need to work and talk more about whether citizen consultations should be off world. As an RA tool, it does not trouble me if the results are always made transparent
Naftali Torok: he vanished
Naftali Torok: oh sorry
Jamie Palisades: but as a general citizen tool, he, even MORE diffusion of our community? not so sure
Jamie Palisades: second
Carolyn Saarinen: Good servants, bad masters
Jamie Palisades: 2. as to the dates, I just have not heard any reason why a campiagn in November is any more or less annoying than a campaign in january,
Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Cindy Ecksol: Soro? a comment?
Soro Dagostino: I think the January time for a campaign is a good time.
Soro Dagostino: It lets us focus on governerment — not social and other affairs.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: new broom and all that
Soro Dagostino: done.
Cindy Ecksol: thx
Cindy Ecksol: Can I get a motion to defer this item to next meeting?
Soro Dagostino: So Move.
Naftali Torok: nods
Pip Torok: second
Cindy Ecksol: thx
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Naftali Torok: yep
Pip Torok: aye
Wasp Thor: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YEP !!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: abstain…
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Cindy Ecksol: naf, if you will post that text on the forum we can discuss there.
Naftali Torok: oki
Micael Khandr: Aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Cindy Ecksol: thanks everyone for insightful comments
Cindy Ecksol: ok, concerns of RA members?
Naftali Torok: yes
Sonja Strom: yes
Sonja Strom: I would like to share some information with you.
Cindy Ecksol: is that “yes” you have concerns or something else?
Naftali Torok: smiles
Cindy Ecksol: (queue is easier for me to tell)
Cindy Ecksol: naftali?
Naftali Torok: as an Ra member as well as a citizen , i just wanna give my concern about new building and terraforming in our sims…..might be a futrure concern…
Naftali Torok: more specific, the plot of Brian
Brian Livingston: Wha?
Naftali Torok: not yu brian
Naftali Torok: but what is going to happen with your former land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is Brian plotting?
Naftali Torok: check it out there, if yu walk from Am to CN
Brian Livingston sighs in relief and wipes a bead of sweat off his brow… his evil plans remain undiscovered
Naftali Torok: yu crash
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Soro Dagostino: Digging a Rabbit hole.
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol:
Naftali Torok: exactly
Rose Springvale: actually the land is owned by Aliasi now
Cindy Ecksol: ok, maybe better handled with Jamie and Aliasi?
Soro Dagostino: Naftali = Alice
Naftali Torok: yes and everybody is free to devellop his fantasy, but i think
Naftali Torok: its good to keep in mind that we have a certain landcape theme
Naftali Torok: oki
Naftali Torok: just wanna mention this theme
Cindy Ecksol: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: I would like to let the RA know I am founding a village at the base of the largest mountains on the original mainland, on the snow sims.
Sonja Strom: It is called Arosa.
Sonja Strom: That area has the best skiing I have found in the SL world.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Pip Torok wonders about moslem architexture in LA …
Sonja Strom: I would be happy to work together with the CDS on this project, possibly for the village to become a franchulate of the CDS – that is, a part of the Confederation on the mainland.
Naftali Torok: lol, thinking of wintersports
Cindy Ecksol: ah, interesting!
Sonja Strom: As you might imagine with it being mainland area, at the moment it is disorganized.
Sonja Strom: But there are already several nice houses there and a pretty good feeling overall, with scenic mountains in the background.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very interesting
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, sonja! will look forward to hearing more
Sonja Strom: I would be happy to let you know any more of the particulars about it.
Sonja Strom: Thank you.
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else with concerns? citizens?
Sonja Strom:
Cindy Ecksol: /next
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Naftali Torok
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Carolyn Saarinen
Cindy Ecksol: ah,m there we go!
Cindy Ecksol: Carolyn?
Carolyn Saarinen: Me first?
Cindy Ecksol: yes please
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok, only to refer back to the point I made earlier.
Carolyn Saarinen: A citizen did ask what the current staus of the education/classes scheme was. I think I need to talk to the Guild about that. Correct?
Cindy Ecksol: yes….definitely
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok I’ll follow it up.
Cindy Ecksol: and if necessary let’s put on next agenda
Carolyn Saarinen nods
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: was kind of aside track today
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Rose Springvale: Three things
Rose Springvale: 1, next week is the anniversary of the LA mundus ceremony
Naftali Torok: nods
Rose Springvale: i’ve had no response to my posting on it…
Rose Springvale: so am not sure if it should be cancelled
Naftali Torok: thinks , need to clear up my inventory to find a newobject…..
Rose Springvale: 2. Solomon Mosely is planning a panel discussion on Health Care issues for Sept 5
Rose Springvale: that will be held in the Al Andalus Auditorium
Soro Dagostino: IN a boxing ring?
Rose Springvale: i’ll be gone that weekend, so he might appreciate some help if anyone has time
Rose Springvale: 3. I have sent out the first call for floats for the Oktoberfest parade
Rose Springvale: so please let me know you will do it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (2. is at which hour?)
Rose Springvale: its the same amount of work for 2 floats as 20
Naftali Torok: i am available for Mundus ceremony
Rose Springvale: hold on, let me get the info
Brian Livingston hopes it’s not a death panal… those are scary.
Naftali Torok: lol
Rose Springvale: i thnk he’s planning for 1 pm on the fifth, but i dont’ see it on the calendar righ tnow
Micael Khandr: I thought we discussed death panels last week . . . ?:)
Pip Torok hopes Sarah doesnt venture to the UK .. (death panels indeed!:)
Naftali Torok: looks at Brian,(missing his Rabbit hole….and specially the vege garden.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ok, I might be able to help, Rose ? at least push people towards the right place and such!)
Lilith Ivory does still not know what that means
Rose Springvale: as for the panel.. he is planning to bring in experts from the major political parties and some neutral people too
Rose Springvale: just politics Lilith
Lilith Ivory:
Cindy Ecksol: ok, very good. thanks rose
Rose Springvale: done unless questions
Naftali Torok: looks on her virtual watch…..feels her stomache…hungry
Soro Dagostino: Move to adjourn
Carolyn Saarinen: 2Lives unworthy of life” You know who I mean
Cindy Ecksol: thx, soro
Pip Torok: second
Cindy Ecksol: (love how the RA reads my mind)
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor
Sonja Strom: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: Aye
Naftali Torok: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I had just a tiny thing to say…)
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Wasp Thor: aye
Jamie Palisades: so speak
Micael Khandr: aye
Rose Springvale: i’ll listen Gwyn
Naftali Torok: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: only with permission of Miz LRA
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol: we’re listening
Naftali Torok: eras open
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead gwyn, and then I’ll adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s easy really
Sonja Strom’s ears perk up
Soro Dagostino: As usual
Gwyneth Llewelyn: last week, during the informal meeting,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: people were talking about getting a “social site”
Jamie Palisades: feh, her power dissapates with the gavel this is just an assemblage of rowdies now
Jamie Palisades: mm hmmmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for CDS citizens to share interests, tell everybody who’s who and so on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
Naftali Torok: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Try this: http://social.slcds.info/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See if that somehow fits your ideas
Cindy Ecksol: ah, great!
Cindy Ecksol: and let’s discuss on forums, ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, well, we always have the forums…
Naftali Torok: a getting-everybody-to-know-play….
Cindy Ecksol: I really need to run…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes .)
Cindy Ecksol: thanks all!
Joaquin Gustav: ty gwyneth
Naftali Torok: thanks cindy
Cindy Ecksol: meeting adjourned….
Permalink.

RA Meeting 6 September 2009

RA Minutes 6 Sept 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:18 am
Meeting on 2009-09-06
Those present:
Pip Torok is in the chair.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Higgs Magnifico: and the point is ?
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: We will “try” to follow some order today.
Higgs Magnifico: thats dificult though
Soro Dagostino: Once the meeting commences, you sould touch the Question symbol to place your statement in order.
Soro Dagostino: Hello Jamie
Joaquin Gustav: Hello jamie
Jamie Palisades: Good morning , and such other times as it is
Soro Dagostino: If your statement is over long — I’ll cough.
Soro Dagostino:
Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie, Hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi!
Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you PiP!
Joaquin Gustav: Hello gwynete
Higgs Magnifico: hi to the new
Jamie Palisades attempts to negotiate the chairs for hoi polloi, with mixed results
Carolyn Saarinen: AO off Jamie?
Pip Torok: brb for drink of COLD water …
Soro Dagostino: do try to be civil and allow our business to proceed.
Jamie Palisades: actually Caro, i did – but with a slow rez, I got the phsyical chair prim first (with a bad sit target uinexplicably), not the poseball over it
Higgs Magnifico: dont get drunk pip
Higgs Magnifico: lol
Carolyn Saarinen: Brought my own this week
Pip Torok: not on adam’s ale Higgs
Jamie Palisades: wise. I;’ll wait for the chair poseballs and grab them when they arrive .. rather lke my strategy with Senator Llewellyn there
Soro Dagostino: Hello Danton
Lilith Ivory: Hi Danton
Pip Torok: hi Danton
Soro Dagostino: Lets begin?
Higgs Magnifico: hey danton
Soro Dagostino: Would everyone touch the recorder and consent to recordation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Higgs Magnifico has indicated consent to be recorded.
Joaquin Gustav has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Danton Sideways: Hi all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Danton, hello!
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: The Agenda is a little short, are there any revisions?
Higgs Magnifico: in Bozonion Higgs perhaps
Carolyn Saarinen: I have acouple of points of info, but they can wait.
Soro Dagostino: Please, we can add them as new business?
Carolyn Saarinen: Sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises in advance for any signs of afk’ishness
Soro Dagostino: Carolyn?
Carolyn Saarinen: Yes, fo you want me to raise them when we get to new business?
Soro Dagostino: Just tell the group the topics.
Micael Khandr: Kuzenteit
Soro Dagostino: So they get mentioned in the Agenda.
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok, updates on the online indicator and on education in CDS
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Any other amendments to the Agenda?
Pip Torok: yes … one from me Soro
Soro Dagostino: Pip — please
Pip Torok: (sorry i meant one addition at the end)
Soro Dagostino: New Business?
Pip Torok: yes
Soro Dagostino: Topic?
Pip Torok: clearance of an LA plot (by Liliths house) of Symos exhibition
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh clearing of a plot is mostly the Executive’s duty, unless you’re suggesting that the RA authorises some very special use of it…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and even that would be mostly an Executive function, Pip!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: IMHO…
Jamie Palisades: well, let it be a question then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok A question it shall be
Soro Dagostino: The topic is added as a new item of business.
Soro Dagostino: A correction from the chair — I seem to have forgotten Jamies report.
Jamie Palisades: It’s in the written agenda
Soro Dagostino: Oh?
Soro Dagostino: I guess it is.
Soro Dagostino: Sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Soro Dagostino: Any other changes to the Agenda?
Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to approve the amended agenda?
Micael Khandr: so move
Carolyn Saarinen: seconded
Soro Dagostino: Moved and seconded
Soro Dagostino: Any discussion?
Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Soro Dagostino: All in favor
Pip Torok: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Micael Khandr: Aye, aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: me hearties
Soro Dagostino: Thos opposed
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
Micael Khandr: That’s arrr, Stui . . .
Soro Dagostino: Now to the report of the Chancellor . .
Soro Dagostino: Jamie, you have the floor.
Jamie Palisades smiles, stands up
Jamie Palisades: Good day all.
Jamie Palisades: Not a long one, today.
Jamie Palisades: We will take up another issue of interest to me next on the agenda, which is the cultural commissions –
Jamie Palisades: so, not going to talk about that in this segment.
Jamie Palisades: Not much for this session — the budget presentation doesn’t have as much utility in the absence of both Cindy and Rose, who are both out this week as you know, so I asked her to hold it over to your next meeting.
Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: I am bringing several more parcels of land in CN on line as commercial properties, this week (under the special bid process approved last year).
Jamie Palisades: CN has by the way proves tougher to sell.
Jamie Palisades: I suspect it’s overpriced, and — a nod to Arria — probably needs a more uniform price per prim, compared to the rest of CDS>
Jamie Palisades: That, in my view, is a major change that requires your review — though it’s always hard to say, with our tangle of law …
Jamie Palisades: but really, a sim-wide rent change is an n act to decrease land revenue
Jamie Palisades: so ought to come heren according to me
Robert Galland has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: thus, expect a proposal this term, on that
Jamie Palisades: if the Guild springs back to life, I;d hope to involve them
Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: We also are waiting for the completion of terraforming on the Monastery sim, and the joining sims between AA and CN, so they can be approved — and added to our GMP. There were some vacations; I think that all will get done fair early in this month, September.
Jamie Palisades: (As the US huromist says, with vacations and all, it’s been a slow month here in Lake Wobegon)
Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: Same comment, unfortunately, on our web presence. I would liek to see out main materials on an easier-to-use, more WYSIWYG platform, and, as I said just before Gwyn tried her bootleg project, to add light social networking. But again, some of the protagnoists are offline for AUgust, coming back now we hope. Expect to see some other prototypes cropping up in beta soon
Jamie Palisades: some of yuo may have looked at the tool Gwyneth posted at the domain she controls, social.slcds,info
Jamie Palisades: I am equally worried about the eas eof use on our main site http://www.slcds.info
Jamie Palisades: CMS systems are not always simpleton-friendly
Jamie Palisades: nd we donlt want to disenfranshie simpletons
Jamie Palisades: especially as you have one for your chancellor
Jamie Palisades: ..
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m a simpleton
Micael Khandr: True . . .
Soro Dagostino: And Deputy LRA )
Jamie Palisades: I;m in good company then
Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: As we prepare for Carolyn’s RA member online indicator, i expect we also should plan to talk about what to do with public property in CDS again. After all – it ought to BE somewhere. There is an old, rather outdated and never completed study of all public buildings … SOME parts of which we should revisit, to settle some questions that will guide building and rebuiiding. Let me just mention some of them now, so that we are all thinking about the topic.
Jamie Palisades: for example
Jamie Palisades: 1. Will this CN location be the RA’s permanent home?
Jamie Palisades: 2. Same question for the SC and the Rathaus in NFS.
Jamie Palisades: 3. Should the ground floor of the Rathaus be redone to front on the Platz, so that it .. and not two houses on the main platz which could be commercial .. as the NFS welcome center for the government?
Jamie Palisades: 4. Should we not have some CDS government functions housed in AA? And, where?
Jamie Palisades: that sort of thing
Jamie Palisades: So please start thinkng about it
Jamie Palisades: Soro, may I tajke up Pip’s question as a question at this time? I;m done for now otherwise
Soro Dagostino: Yes, its time for questions
Jamie Palisades: (so open for that and any other questions)
Jamie Palisades: Pip? You were talking about the 79AD exhibit?
Pip Torok: shall I frame it as a question?
Jamie Palisades: well, is it time to make it go away?
Soro Dagostino: Please touch the question mark for a turn
Jamie Palisades: and ought we find anotgher home for it?
Pip Torok: Now that the exhibition has been there for a year (maybe a little less) and considering that the function was to aid the sale of plots in LA (which are now nearly all sold) isn’t it time to dismantle that exhibition? (done)
Pip Torok: (sorry … forgot about the questionmark
Jamie Palisades: OK good point, Will so. I rather like it, and will see if we can;t get the righs to have it in some public space.
Jamie Palisades: ,any other Q, Mr LRA?
Soro Dagostino: Any others?
Pip Torok: One thing we might consider is a similar exhibition featuring Moorosh architecture
Jamie Palisades: oo nice idea — i wonder if there;s a source we can get at
Carolyn Saarinen: Satir
Jamie Palisades nods
Jamie Palisades: good idea
Soro Dagostino: Any other Q’s for Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Ill stay up for the “culture commissions” idea, then, if that;’s OK
Soro Dagostino:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please, I was going to ask if you have any more ideas to share with us on that, Mr Chancellor ))
Pip Torok: Yes one … is it the defacto policy that _themes_ be highlighted by their separation from each other in differing sims?
Soro Dagostino: next on the Agenda
Soro Dagostino: Please get in line.
Jamie Palisades: interesting. Can you explain that a little, Pip? Do we do that now?
Soro Dagostino: Order please
Jamie Palisades: oops – as soon as Soro tells me who;s next
Soro Dagostino: No one.
Micael Khandr: Question mark . . .
Soro Dagostino: Is the meet
Pip Torok: yes … in the middle of LA (a roman sim) appeared a non-roman (Persian) building … that concerns me
Soro Dagostino: Order please.
Soro Dagostino: Micael
Soro Dagostino: You have the floor.
Micael Khandr: No, Soro, just reminding people to use the question mark to queue up–sorry
Soro Dagostino: The Matter before us is now the Regiona activity commissiions.
Pip Torok: Sorry Soro, I forgot yet again
Soro Dagostino: Who wishes to speak
Micael Khandr: Caro
Carolyn Saarinen: are we still on the question jamie raised?
Soro Dagostino: That is the item before the body
Jamie Palisades smiles politely c licks big “?” so as to pick up that line of chat.
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok, my two penn’orth
Soro Dagostino: Touch the ? Mark to set order.
Soro Dagostino: Caro
Carolyn Saarinen: I’d advocate consistancy of theme within sims. Although some variety can seem like a good idea, the end result can be Mainland, which no-one likes. Secondly…
Soro Dagostino: Yes?
Carolyn Saarinen: and more tricky is the matter of sims side by side. I haven’t looked lately, but IMO the juxtaposition of CN and an alpine resort looks messy.
Carolyn Saarinen: Each is ok by itself, but proximity makes them jar.
Soro Dagostino: That may be a little off topic.
Carolyn Saarinen: Sure
Jamie Palisades scratches his head, squints at agenda, looks at the chair. May I suggest that some of us still are in Question Time, and ask the chair whether he wants us to take that up now?
Soro Dagostino: Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well Sorry I am rather confused as to which point we are presently debating
Sonja Strom: lol
Soro Dagostino: REgional Activity commissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: okidoky
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I might make comment later
StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry
Soro Dagostino: Jamie and Pip moved into it.
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Soro Dagostino: Your next
Jamie Palisades nods
Jamie Palisades: Accepting the ruling that we are on item 3, that is the topic for which my hand is raised. We can chat about Pip and Caro’s other quetsion after the meeting, or at the end of the agenda, if you like. Now. As to the cultural commissions … to recap …
Jamie Palisades: I would like the thematic neighborhoods to take control of their own programming, and devolve much of our events budget down there. We’ve talked about this, and done some experimenting, for a while now.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: Event programming, and event control, both are executive functions.We are talking about devolving the programming half — Choosing artists, venues, actually hosting the event.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: By event control I mean approving payment terms and making payment so that people don’t pay themselves, or pay extraordinary amounts.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: just as an example
Jamie Palisades: AA has long has a Friday event which Joaquin here hosts
Jamie Palisades: he;s good at it
Jamie Palisades: it works
Jamie Palisades: more or less on its own
Joaquin Gustav: ty
Jamie Palisades: (and do go attend – great dancing , great music )
Jamie Palisades: but from an admin point of view
Jamie Palisades: my poitn is, we shoudl be etting that sort of thing happen, and getting the gov;’ out of the way
Jamie Palisades: other than to write cheques
Jamie Palisades: and, instead of me or you the RA or the PIO picking it all
Jamie Palisades: let’s have informal town halls at the themes locales from time to time, to affirm those choices
Jamie Palisades: as Gwyn pointed out
Jamie Palisades: this is not really a new formal structure, but rather, under our laws …
Jamie Palisades: .. and executive branch decision to delegate
Jamie Palisades: .. while leaving the money issues up here, where you can swat me (or whoever) if it gets out of control
Jamie Palisades: done
Jamie Palisades: Last meeting I asked for feedback – and here we are
Soro Dagostino: Do you think it in order to refer this question to your office?
Jamie Palisades: Soro, no action from RA required: this is a consultation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly ))
Soro Dagostino: I don’t see need for RA to take action
Pip Torok: agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ agrees with Jamie and Soro and Pip
Jamie Palisades: (which from a cold point of view, is a very nice way of saying … your chance to stop me if you like )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Soro Dagostino: Micael — your next in order
Jamie Palisades: ( which I think I ought to provide, when we make big changes )
Micael Khandr: TY, Soro–
Micael Khandr: I agree with Jamie, btw
Micael Khandr: My question/issue is thatjust as the neighborhoods determine theri own cultural activities, perhaps the neighborhoods should also decide building issues–the topic we discussed earlier.
Jamie Palisades: ooo interesting – will reply when it;s in order
Soro Dagostino: Point of order . . .
Soro Dagostino: The chair believed the two issues were within the regional activity discussion.
Soro Dagostino: Proceed
Jamie Palisades: ?
Micael Khandr: ?
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, The topic is within the Agenda item.
Micael Khandr: Are we waiting for others to weigh in, Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Regional commisions
Jamie Palisades: just waiting for direction as to whether we take up Micael’s topic, I am in queue to answer him if so
Micael Khandr: Or for me to say something more?
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Soro Dagostino: Wait one.
Soro Dagostino: That is what I was saying — you were in order micheal
Soro Dagostino: The architectural issue was properly before the body.
Soro Dagostino: Proceed
Micael Khandr: Well, I think that the more authority we can push down to the hoods the better–with oversight at the top level, as Jamie suggests
Pip Torok: agree
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I debate
Soro Dagostino: Is there a proposal regarding structure?
Micael Khandr: I suggest further that the overall rules be basic parameters, and that each hood organize their decision process according to their traditions.
Micael Khandr: That each hood’s plan come here for approval.
Micael Khandr: But might be different from each other.
Soro Dagostino: Or to the chancellor.
Pip Torok: agree with M’s last sentence
Micael Khandr: Yes.
Micael Khandr: I’m done.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder who at hood level will put forward plans
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — your next in order
Carolyn Saarinen pokes her with a stick
Soro Dagostino: Stui — if you would touch the ? — you would be next.
Micael Khandr: Bless you, Stui . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it says I am already in the queue
Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, , I see now.
Jamie Palisades: me too, some time ago
Carolyn Saarinen: keeps tellin me I’m already in the queue
Soro Dagostino: Proceed
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I proceed?
Soro Dagostino: Yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: tk u
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I have a lot of concerns with regard to this proposal and think that it requires more detail
Carolyn Saarinen: Should be a specific agenda item?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that in AA there is not an effective lower level authority to decide a plan
Soro Dagostino: We had ask for folk to post to the forums
Micael Khandr: I disagree.
Soro Dagostino: But none did.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t believe in using the forums personally
Sonja Strom: Soro, where was that in the forum? I don’t remember seeing it there.
Jamie Palisades smiles and keeps poking the big “?”, and eventually shrugs & makes a sign of the evil eye at it
Pip Torok: But how then do you communicate concerns between meetings, Stu?
Soro Dagostino: Jamie
Soro Dagostino: You are next.
Micael Khandr: We did agree to use the forums, Soro, although some objected to out-of-world conversation. I disagree with Stui’s assertion that there is no lower-levelaauthorityi n nAA
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I would sooner communicate directly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, as said, I’m very afk’ish today and please apologise for that; I’ll let Jamie speak, he might, after all clarify the questions I had )
Jamie Palisades: rioght
Soro Dagostino: Jamie
Jamie Palisades: We have several threads Let me take up two of them, then see if we WANT to take up the third.
Jamie Palisades: (1) is short
Jamie Palisades: As for local governance styles, I agree with Micael. Whatever the issue — cultural events or otherwise — if we wish to delegate, we should identify a convener/protagnoist or two, and let them use whatever process is locally sensible, as long as it is open to all and transparent> This avoids another layer of overgovernment.
Jamie Palisades: (2) As for *land* issues .. which SEEMS to be what we’re discussing
Jamie Palisades: Micael, there is sim design, covenant writing, and covenant enforcement. The first two are rare and episodic — and require RA approval — so let me focus on the third, which is the recurring maintenance in-the-ordinary-course one.
Jamie Palisades: FYI, the rough process now, is that local theme compliance is a subset of land covenant compliance. As with all such, a problem is initiated either by (rare) spontaneous inspection, or by a complaint to the executive branch. I have in fact received one about one of the matters mentioned — In LA, not in AA, by the way.

(continued)
Last edited by Cindy Ecksol on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
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Re: RA Minutes 6 Sept 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:19 am
(continued)

Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: One who follows our ways, closely, will note that these things usually take 4-6 weeks to work through — and are usually only disussed publicly when a resolution is reached. Bear in mind, it’s very much like the city inspector coming to you to tell you that you must take down your garage.
Jamie Palisades: It’s a government confiscation issue Not small , policy-wise
Jamie Palisades: So. Mostly it’s a personal negotiation thing, and at this time does not involve formal consultation the local nodes, Micael. Not to say it could not — just that it does not now. We DO have a consulting process called the Building Advisory Committee. It is moribund because, as with most of the CDS Guild activity this last term, it has not been populated.
Jamie Palisades: So there IS a chance to build a structure requiring more local control, Micael, if you wanted to “go there”, but I think a debate would be better framed by a more detailed proposal.
Jamie Palisades: hwich leaves me with (3), the original topic I introduced
Jamie Palisades: cultural commissions as ONE instance of devolution to local control
Jamie Palisades: I plan to do it
Jamie Palisades: end of comment
Jamie Palisades smiles, shrugs, sits down
Soro Dagostino: Comment:
Soro Dagostino: That is a request for a raised hand
Carolyn Saarinen: hand up
Jamie Palisades: I’m good, on this one, Soro, if no one has any more.
Soro Dagostino: Ok, moving to the next agenda item.
Soro Dagostino: Change of election dates.
Jamie Palisades glances at Caro, shrugs again
Carolyn Saarinen: It’s ok, let’s move on.
Soro Dagostino: Ooops — Caro?
Soro Dagostino: Sorry —
Carolyn Saarinen: table it for next time
Micael Khandr: Not sure.
Soro Dagostino: The ? mark does not clear after someone speaks
Soro Dagostino: So I can’t tell who is next in order.
Jamie Palisades: Maybe there’s a special Cindy only thing you do to clear it, shrug
Carolyn Saarinen: reset script?
Soro Dagostino: No clue!
Soro Dagostino:
Jamie Palisades grins at Pip — I could eject it as out-of -theme while Cindy’s gone …
Soro Dagostino: heheheh
Pip Torok: hehe
Jamie Palisades: a theme violation itself from what I understand about Colonial Roman architecture
Soro Dagostino: She would be pissed . . ooops
Jamie Palisades: yah, discretion is the better part
Lilith Ivory giggles
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Soro Dagostino: Who is next on the change of election dates?
Soro Dagostino: Caro –?
Soro Dagostino: Sonja
Sonja Strom: I think it could be good to move the election times, but have a concern about the RA voting to extend its own term.
Carolyn Saarinen: I’m fine
Carolyn Saarinen: yay Long Parliament
Carolyn Saarinen:
Sonja Strom: A referendum could also be a possibility, as a “Should the election times be moved? Yes/No”
Pip Torok: Time for research into RL practice on that concern imo Sonja
Sonja Strom: And/Or we could have the decision come into effect for the next RA, from January to November. Thanks.
Micael Khandr: Wouldn’t the referemdum be responded to by the people in this room . . . ?
Pip Torok: thats always the problem of governor and goverened Micael
Soro Dagostino: Jamie
Sonja Strom: Micael, I would think so, but a referendum would extend the question to the whole community of the CDS.
Jamie Palisades: I have no opinion at all abotu the merits of the scheulde chagne — but IF you do, then I note that Sonja’s soluion is very fair – …
Jamie Palisades: .. the electorate owuld know in advance …
Jamie Palisades: .. that they are choosing the next set of reps for a long term. Done
Soro Dagostino: I only comment — its an easy topic to learn the use of the referendum
Micael Khandr: I’m fine with a referendum.
Pip Torok: me too
Soro Dagostino: Does some one want to make that an amendment.
Soro Dagostino: Move and Second?
Sonja Strom: Do we have a bill we are working on? If so I don’t know the wording of it.
Soro Dagostino: It was to have been done in the forum —
Pip Torok: true … i suggest Sonja present the motion at the nexr RA meeting
Soro Dagostino: Last meeting there was just a proposal regarding the time.
Pip Torok: But Sonjka point is valid imo Soro … a referendum
Sonja Strom: It seems to me we could wait until the next RA meeting for this bill.
Soro Dagostino: Pip – do you move to table — with a note that the proposal be brought to move the topc to a Referrendum
Pip Torok: so move
Sonja Strom: I can bring a possible bill up for discussion in the forum.
Micael Khandr: second
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Soro Dagostino: ty
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Soro Dagostino: ooops — non-debatetable
Soro Dagostino: All in favor
Micael Khandr: Aye
Sonja Strom: Stui, if you want to have something included but don’t want to post in the Forum about it, you and I can chat about what you want.
Pip Torok: suggest that the most fruitful discussion be next week in the Forum
Pip Torok: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Soro Dagostino: Uhhhh???
Sonja Strom: I vote aye for extending this discussion to the next RA meeting.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I vote for extension
Soro Dagostino: Everyone voted?
Pip Torok: so do I …
Micael Khandr: Aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Micael Khandr: I mean, Yes
Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Motion carries — some one [pokeGwyn and tellher. )
Sonja Strom laughs
Sonja Strom: I will
Sonja Strom: Soro, I think your question was about what I said to Stui? It was because he said he did not want to post in the CDS Forum.
Micael Khandr: Her ankle keeps twitching . . .
Soro Dagostino: Now to Carolyn’s Announcements.
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok
Carolyn Saarinen: two bits of news: Re-education in the sims…
Carolyn Saarinen: Moon tells me that she is in the process of translating a course she wrote for a university from Portugese…
Carolyn Saarinen: this will be a comprehensive course in building. 12×2 hour sessions.
Carolyn Saarinen: She also advised me to talk to Jon I’m guessing that’s Jon Seattle, so I’ll do that.
Carolyn Saarinen: Second, I’ve been in touch with the maker of the online indicator system..
Carolyn Saarinen: I hope to meet him very soon, maybe later today to look it over. If it seems ok I’ll arrange delivery to Rudeen Edo.
Carolyn Saarinen: That’s all.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Sonja Strom: Thank you for this work, Carolyn.
Soro Dagostino: Any other new business?
Carolyn Saarinen: NP
Soro Dagostino: I forgot to announce — the next meeting of RA is Sept. 20th, @ 0900
Soro Dagostino: Two weeks
Soro Dagostino: Is there a Motion to adjourn?
Carolyn Saarinen: so moved
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Sonja Strom: second
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Pip Torok: ayer
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye !
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: Motion carries — we are adjourned until Sept 20th at 0900
Soro Dagostino: Thank you all

Permalink.

RA Meeting 11 October 2009

RA Meeting 11 October 2009: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:34 pm
Meeting on 2009-10-11
Those present:
Soro Dagostino is in the chair.
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja
Sonja Strom: Hello
Soro Dagostino: Hopefully we will have a quorum.
Sonja Strom: Yeah
Sonja Strom: Too early to tell
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all!
Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good morning/afternoon
Sonja Strom: Hi Joaquin
Joaquin Gustav: hello!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, JoaquiN!
Soro Dagostino: Hello Jaaquin
Joaquin Gustav: Hello friends
Sonja Strom:
Joaquin Gustav has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Pip and Stui are near.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Need one more . . .
Soro Dagostino: Good day Pip . . .
Pip Torok: good day … good day everyone
Joaquin Gustav: good day pip
Pip Torok: are we quorate?
Soro Dagostino: Not yet
Pip Torok: hi Jo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Almost, almost!
Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hi Pip
Soro Dagostino: Stui is about.
Soro Dagostino: Need another.
Pip Torok: shall I shout a word in his ear?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would it work anyway?
Soro Dagostino: Please do . . .
Pip Torok: hehe
Soro Dagostino: Here he is.
Joaquin Gustav: helloStui
Soro Dagostino: Hi Stui
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcom, Stui!!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good day all
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good day indeed
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro can I sit in your seat ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: so I can see the view
Pip Torok: you forestalled me Stu!
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Joaquin Gustav: Rose is here!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha from here you can see everyone !
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well other than me *LOL*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sonja Strom: With that seat comes a lot of privilege.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a lot of responsibility!…
Sonja Strom: yes!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it doesn’t come with a cushion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like, well, Spiderman
Joaquin Gustav: Rose! good morning
Rose Springvale: hi everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi, dear Rose
Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
Sonja Strom: Hi Rose
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro we’ll buy you a cushion
Pip Torok: hi Rose …
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good day Rosy !
Rose Springvale: looking at my friends list…sigh. one shy of quorum?
Sonja Strom: It looks to me like it has a cushion.
Soro Dagostino: Yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oooh the Cushion rezed !
Soro Dagostino: What has happened to the builder
Sonja Strom:
Soro Dagostino: Lawyer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: so .. rob, naf, wasp, micael, arria, cindy… who’s the other one?
Rose Springvale: feels the need to start some peer pressure
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not me
Soro Dagostino: There is an agenda in the pot
Rose Springvale: look stui, matched your feathers
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Please consent by touching the recorder on the table.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh indeed, Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow that dress is gorgeous…
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy we’ll have to do a photoshoot
Rose Springvale: thanks!
Rose Springvale: it comes long too
Rose Springvale: Nikky Ree
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Sonja Strom: wow yeah, it is!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I have to take a look at Nikky!
Rose Springvale: thanks
Rose Springvale: oh
Rose Springvale: well take lots of money lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Rose Springvale: caro is the other
StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone want some caberet while we wait ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll skip on the CDS rent payments then
Rose Springvale: i thought she’d be here
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
Rose Springvale: i had to lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can do a dance
Rose Springvale: i gave all my money to the boobie ball lol
Sonja Strom: ok Stui
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is a “boobie ball”????
Rose Springvale: then when i tried to pay rent, sl wasnt doing transactions!
Rose Springvale: oh gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ~ Time to River Dance ~
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seriously, I don’t know what that is
Rose Springvale: here, i’ll find the notecard.. fundraiser for Breast cancer…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! I thought as much lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I have an idea
StuiChicanne Darkstone: for the CDS christmas card
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but for a foreigner, hearing those two words out of context….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can all riverdance
StuiChicanne Darkstone: here
Rose Springvale: smiels
StuiChicanne Darkstone: in a line
Pip Torok: sounds sound like a Goon-show record!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip can be santa claus
Sonja Strom: Maybe the first agenda item should be “Gathering RA members”
Pip Torok: the Ying-Tong Song …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sonja ? you’re quite right!
Rose Springvale: the boobie ball raises money by getting prominent personalities to go topless
Sonja Strom:
Soro Dagostino: Yep!
Joaquin Gustav: i have the same problem with transactions
Pip Torok: need 5 yrs to grow a beard!
Rose Springvale: even Herr Baron stripped down to his kilt
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I AM NOT GOING TOPLESS !
Sonja Strom: Second is “RA Collective Riverdance”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui
Rose Springvale: stui dear, you are always topless lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not today, he isn’t!
Soro Dagostino: Welcom Fern
StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s why I won’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sonja Strom: Hi Fern, welcome
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could wear a bra I suppose
Rose Springvale: hi Fern
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello , Fern
Fern Leissa: Hi
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Squeeze a boob find a friend !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Pip Torok: hi Fern
Rose Springvale: fern if they have a meeting you might want to move up to the front row.. just outside of chat range for some of them
Rose Springvale: but still a rep short
Fern Leissa: JThanks
Rose Springvale: let me try ims, see if i can get anyone to wake up
Soro Dagostino: That would be good.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do we still have a problem with the chat range?… we can move closer to the audience I suppose
Soro Dagostino: I sent a note to all,
Rose Springvale: i’m sending private ones
StuiChicanne Darkstone: JAMIE !!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Jamie
Soro Dagostino: Hello Jamie.
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: one for soro !
Rose Springvale: Hi Jamie
Pip Torok: hi Jamie
Jamie Palisades smiles, nods,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh is that a Highlander outfit?
Rose Springvale: have you all heard from Arria?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie is in a skirt
Sonja Strom: very nice, isn’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *squeezes Jamie’s boob*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nice skirt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Rose Springvale: we know cindy is out and i think caro said she’s gone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie are you going topless for the boobie ball ?
Rose Springvale: sent notes to naf, micael, caro and wasp
Soro Dagostino: Ok, we do not have a quorum.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m very excitable
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I had a lot of cookies
Jamie Palisades smiles, curtsies, makes a note of prejudice against Scots for his future SC appeal to have you all hung in the Platz
Sonja Strom: sugar high!
Soro Dagostino: Lets talk about the items on the Agenda — and wait for 7 day votes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure…
Rose Springvale: message back from Rob, on the road, so he wont’ be here
Rose Springvale: can you do that?
Joaquin Gustav: the ones that confirmed in doodle we are all here
Rose Springvale: can you get quorum from 7 days?
Soro Dagostino: Yes, any action is subject to ratification.
Rose Springvale: cool
Soro Dagostino: We are all kept in suspense.
Sonja Strom: I don’t know about a quorum, but we can have an open conversation.
Sonja Strom: We have done that in the past.
Pip Torok: good idea
Sonja Strom: Just not have any votes at this meeting…
Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hand on a point of order
Soro Dagostino: We always have open discussion — no order at all . . .))
Soro Dagostino: Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we could talk about Christmas !
Soro Dagostino: Non action items.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Winter Holidays in the CDS …
Soro Dagostino: Administrative reports.
Sonja Strom: Halloween
Jamie Palisades: Just confirming – I think disvussion;s fine, but an actual initiation of a vote & motion today, later confirmed by additional 7 days absentee votes, would fail for the lack of quorum here, no?
Sonja Strom: I agree with Jamie.
Rose Springvale: if she comes, we have a quorum yes?
Soro Dagostino: I just saw that .
Soro Dagostino: Yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the things you have to do for a bottle of aftershave
Pip Torok: hi caro!!
Rose Springvale: you have to stop drinking that stuff Stui!
Soro Dagostino: Hello Carol
Rose Springvale: yay caro, quorum maker!
Carolyn Saarinen: Hi, sorry i’m late, log in and TP problems
Sonja Strom: Hi Carolyn
Soro Dagostino: Would you all please touch the recorder to consent to recording the meeting.
Pip Torok: (tell me about ’em!)
Sonja Strom: sorry about the problems…
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom: I know what that is like
Soro Dagostino: Jamie do you have a report?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see Caro hi
Jamie Palisades: Soro, the only major item is the continuation of the budget chat from last week
Pip Torok: errm agenda !!a ???
Pip Torok: *IIa
Soro Dagostino: We will wait for that.
Jamie Palisades: yes – i was looking for that, too, pip
Sonja Strom: In the amphora.
Soro Dagostino: Any changes to the agenda?
Sonja Strom: Under the table.
Soro Dagostino: Any?
Sonja Strom: I don’t have any changes.
Soro Dagostino: Do I hear a motion to approve the Agenda as published?
Pip Torok: so oved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconds
Pip Torok: *so moved
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Soro Dagostino: any discussion?
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Motion carries.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, aye)
Soro Dagostino: A note — The next meeting is October 25.
Soro Dagostino: Cindy will be back . . . Yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Soro Dagostino: I know she has a seven day vote.
Soro Dagostino: Moving to the agenda items.
Soro Dagostino: Jamie, would you move to the Budget report, and then we will take up the In-world status board report.
Pip Torok: (gesundheit)
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Soro Dagostino: Rose — Poke Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Thanks
Jamie Palisades: budget
Soro Dagostino:
Jamie Palisades: a reminder
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2575
Jamie Palisades: is the URI from which we were working last week
Jamie Palisades: and to recap
Jamie Palisades: much of our budget is rote, that is to say, a simple knockoff of necessities
Jamie Palisades: – we collect rent from citizens
Jamie Palisades: – we pay rent (tier) to Linden Lab
Jamie Palisades: as you saw form Sudane’s presentation here in late August
Jamie Palisades: that yields a nice small surplus every month
Jamie Palisades: from which we set aside 25%
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Jamie Palisades: and really, here today, we are talking about how to spend the rest
Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: now before I talk about that
Jamie Palisades: let me point out
Jamie Palisades: there will be other things to talk about OTHER than the monthly routine operation budget
Jamie Palisades: e.g.
Jamie Palisades: 1. Rent harmonization
Jamie Palisades: 2. new sims if any
Jamie Palisades: 3. and revising our payments to the Lindens
Jamie Palisades: (which could go up or down, so we need to plan for that, long term, too)
Jamie Palisades: but those aren’t today’s topic
Jamie Palisades: today, we just start where Sudane left off — how do we spend the mild surplus generated from steady state monthly operations?
Jamie Palisades: ..
Jamie Palisades: and looking at the Forum URI, you can see there are 3 sanswers
Jamie Palisades: none of which are wholly new
Jamie Palisades: the first two speak for themselves, an dboth follow from old acts of the RA
Jamie Palisades: a. stipends to executive branch officials, except me
Jamie Palisades: which makes the volunteer work a *little* more palatable for them
Jamie Palisades: and we’ve done for years
Jamie Palisades: and b. some of our web hosting costs
Jamie Palisades: the real judgment gets exercised in the third category, which is events
Jamie Palisades: we underspent in prior years
Jamie Palisades: this year we are proposing, as you know, to devolve some work to regions
Jamie Palisades: now – from a “CDS law” point of view
Jamie Palisades: this is my presentation on the expenses I plan to authorize
Jamie Palisades: and you may if you wish change it by an act of the RA
Jamie Palisades: frankly, most terms, the RA didn;t touch the budget
Jamie Palisades: *sigh* some terms, a chancellor didn;t either
Jamie Palisades: but if you do NOT act, anyway, this is what we plan to do
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: before any issue of amendment or approval, though
Jamie Palisades: there’s consultation
Jamie Palisades: and on this matter particularly, events plans, this is the point to get feedback
Jamie Palisades: if you look in detail at the event budget
Jamie Palisades: it uses numbers (derived from our past activity under Rose’s creative guidance) …
Jamie Palisades: .. for CDS-wide events
Jamie Palisades: like Oktoberfest & Feria & the inaugural balls
Jamie Palisades: but this leaves a little less that L$50000/month unspent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Amazing how little the CDS spends…
Jamie Palisades: you can see that in item 5 (c) in the posted notes
Jamie Palisades: isn’t it
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: our NEXT problem
Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
Rose Springvale: jamie, is it 50000 per month or per term?
Rose Springvale: sorry, out of order
Jamie Palisades: is to figure out how to coordinate regional citizen involvement in decisions about that
Jamie Palisades: … 50000 per month
Carolyn Saarinen: Blimey!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Soro Dagostino: Exclamations of disbelief are in order!
Gwyneth Llewelyn gasps.
Soro Dagostino:
Jamie Palisades: well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow, the CDS is definitely a *rich* community lol
Jamie Palisades: let’s not get too excited abuot that
Jamie Palisades: no
Jamie Palisades: consider
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, we wish to buy a few sims as well
Jamie Palisades: let’s say we have one concert per week at L$7000 in a sim
Soro Dagostino: And congratulations to Jamie and Sudane for a job well done
Jamie Palisades: 7×4 = 28
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Soro, we should vote on that!!!)
Jamie Palisades: so there’s half your budget gone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, true. Jamie )
Jamie Palisades: Rose, Could I ask you to ralk a little about what’s happening in SL with venues, tip jars, and the trends in paid musicians?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please do!
Rose Springvale: sure
Jamie Palisades: *talk, i mean – but rock too, by all means
Carolyn Saarinen: About $180USD
Rose Springvale: maybe Joaquin will have things to add too
Jamie Palisades: (I use 275/1 this season Caro)
Joaquin Gustav: not really
Rose Springvale: As you all know, there is some great live music available in SL
Joaquin Gustav: i am following your exposition
Joaquin Gustav: and i could prepare a list of entretainers
Rose Springvale: for the most part, live music is a great attraction to sims, and especially beneficial when the sim is trying to attract traffic, either to sell goods, or land or concepts
Rose Springvale: STANDARD rates for good musicians like Joa right now, are 5k per performance
Rose Springvale: some performers will negotiate their prices for consistent engagements
Rose Springvale: soem will work for tips
Rose Springvale: i generally only agree to pay 5k to performers who have 3 things, just for background… 1, an active group
Joaquin Gustav: yes, and there is also an option of bringing a thematic dj
Rose Springvale: 2. their own stream
Rose Springvale: 3. assistants
Joaquin Gustav: sorry rose
Rose Springvale: for major events, i like to have performers who pretty much guarantee us 40 avis
Rose Springvale: now
Rose Springvale: in most sims
Rose Springvale: the cost of the musician, and the cost of the land make live music very expensive
Rose Springvale: and many venues close on an ongoing pattern
Rose Springvale: recently
Rose Springvale: through the efforts of a group called Live Music Venues
Rose Springvale: there has been an experiment going around with cover charges
Rose Springvale: ticketed performances
Rose Springvale: where popular performers are paid a) from ticket sales
Rose Springvale: or b) the revenue is shared by both the musician and the venue owner
Rose Springvale: Mankind Tracer created this system
Rose Springvale: and has volunteered to do a performance for us if we are interested in trying it
Rose Springvale: the point being
Rose Springvale: that when we dont’ have anything to sell
Rose Springvale: then our music becomes entertainment
Rose Springvale: and sadly
Rose Springvale: in MOST of our events
Rose Springvale: most of the people attending are not CDS citizens
Jamie Palisades: .. or that could be a good thing, if we are selling land
Rose Springvale: yes. is that what you wanted Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: .. yes, thanks. And we should take a second to
Jamie Palisades: acknowledge some of our colleagues
Rose Springvale: smiles
Jamie Palisades: Pip, Caro. Stui, Joaquin, Cindy and Sonja come to mind
Jamie Palisades: who really do regularly make a point of showing up at our social events
Jamie Palisades: i am sure I have missed some’
Rose Springvale: smiles
Jamie Palisades: and we’ve seen all of you at one time or another
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Rose Springvale: but there are some we have NEVER seen
Jamie Palisades: but it helps us promote CDS, so – thanks
Jamie Palisades: anyway, grin
Jamie Palisades: that’s where the money goes
Jamie Palisades: and
Jamie Palisades: what I hope to see NEXT
Jamie Palisades: is
Jamie Palisades: (with rose’s help, quelle surprise)
Jamie Palisades: Andalusian, Alpine and Roman citizen panels convene to advise us on how to use the rest of those funds for programs
Jamie Palisades: several of you alreday have been good enough to agree to help us convene those
Jamie Palisades: I doubt we’d just do an arithmetic split of the funds
Jamie Palisades: but that’s an issue we will need to work out as the demand for programming evolves
Rose Springvale raises hand
Jamie Palisades: and with that – and a request for your input on it – I’m done, believe it or not.
Soro Dagostino: Rose
Rose Springvale: i can wait until after the ra soro… i think they get to go firs
Rose Springvale: first
Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to approve the budget?
Rose Springvale: oh
Rose Springvale: lol
Jamie Palisades: you are welcome to, though it’s not legally required
Rose Springvale: i had one more comment
Sonja Strom: I would like to hear what Rose wants to say.
Soro Dagostino: Then no action is necessary for today?
Soro Dagostino: Rose?
Jamie Palisades: me too, Sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’d be fine in approving the budget but allowing for some more time to discuss?)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e.g. Rose m)
Rose Springvale: yes, i wanted to add that it is really important as we look at these allocations to remember that most of the events that sprinkle our calendar today
Rose Springvale: are privately funded.
Rose Springvale: ie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy ! ROSY ! Rosy !
Rose Springvale: we have not given any financial support to theater of the clouds,
Soro Dagostino: The reason for the Motion — is to allow for discussion
Rose Springvale: or to the Old Bowl
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh, ok, Soro!)
Jamie Palisades: (that’s Pip’s AM artists group, yes?)
Rose Springvale: CDS has been financing the Al Zahra concerts since they started collecting the funds from aa in July
Pip Torok hears of the Old Bowl and suddenly pays attention ….
Rose Springvale: yes, that’s Pips place
Rose Springvale: so one of the things the regional groups may want to consider is supporting what is already being done
Rose Springvale: if they choose NOT to
Rose Springvale: then some of that programming will no doubt be revised
Soro Dagostino: [what isn’t “Pip’s place?] Rose Springvale: lol
Pip Torok: now now!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: my house
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it says “Stui’s”
Soro Dagostino: Don’t be to sure
Rose Springvale: smile
Soro Dagostino:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I shall check for his shoes under my bed tho
Rose Springvale: that’s all unless you have questions
Soro Dagostino: What is the sense of the body?
Pip Torok: (mostly non-existent shoes these days)
Soro Dagostino: Do we need a Motion to approve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: two different things I believe ? one is the budget, the other are the Regional Comissions, which, in fact, don’t need explicit RA approval
Jamie Palisades: and ar etheir own agenda item, I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just an Executive function, they can delegate it to anyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and that too, Jamie
Soro Dagostino: Regional Commissions are on the Agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, well, I’ll move a motion to approve the budget, so that we can discuss it properly hehe
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we should buy a gavel
Pip Torok: seconded
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Soro Dagostino: Ready for the vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn was a bit busy in browsing through the forums,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a question
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Gwyneth Llewelyn clicks on the question mark thingy
Sonja Strom: Thanks for all the work on this to Sudane, Jamie, Rose, and anybody else I might not have mentioned.
Soro Dagostino: Yes Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, since Jamie probably has this written somewhere,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or has a link to a forum thread,
Jamie Palisades: ?
Rose Springvale gasps. all i do is spend it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s easier to ask…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What percentage of the overall revenue of the CDS is going to be allocated to events?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’m sure that the requirements for having a standing reserve will have been already figured out etc)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy ! can we have a christmas tree that’s hugest ?
Soro Dagostino: Stui . . . BONK, BONK
Jamie Palisades: ah. OK. Hmmmmm. (using calculator)
Soro Dagostino: the gavel.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$76450 is the monthly revenue?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro just bonked me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quoting from the forum post… “Potential budget for these = L$76450 ? 7000 ? 2750 ? 12000 ? 1666 = no more than L$49700”
Jamie Palisades: Net income after tier is projected at L$101750/month
Jamie Palisades: so even just by eyeball,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok!!!
Pip Torok: can I suggest 60% of the “no more than” figure for entertainment?
Jamie Palisades: L$14000 or so per month is CDS wide events
Jamie Palisades: and we are talking about L$49700 max here for the regions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so mmmh
Jamie Palisades: per month
Jamie Palisades: so that’s what, about 63% ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something like that, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So mmh
Jamie Palisades: 14+50/102
Gwyneth Llewelyn: what are the extra L$25k for?
Jamie Palisades: in rough shorthand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Further expansion? Financial reserve?
Jamie Palisades packs his suitcase for Cuba .. um .. i mean …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Pip Torok: lol
Jamie Palisades: heh, no, it goes to the website, stipends and reserves
Jamie Palisades: remember
Jamie Palisades: sudance has asked and we long ago agreed to set side 1/4 into reserve
Jamie Palisades: *sudane, sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH ok, that’s what I was wondering!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Jamie Palisades: that was covered in the August RA budget show she provided
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, roughly L$25k for reserves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, I was trying to get that forum thread, the nice one with the slides and all!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The reason I was asking that,
Soro Dagostino: Any more questions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is because I’m interested in knowing if we can afford further expansion this term
Rose Springvale: oh Gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Is the body ready for the vote?
Jamie Palisades: well, that, as I said Gwyn, is completely separate
Jamie Palisades: here’s why
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess we could ? at the expense of cutting on the events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens
Jamie Palisades: we WERE disussing the operating budget
Pip Torok: always something to keep in mind
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees, yes
Jamie Palisades: EXPANSION is a CAPITAL budget item
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Rose Springvale: why would we cut events? we’d have more sims more people, more money
Jamie Palisades: which means taking money out of our banks funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes
Jamie Palisades: *banked funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps I should have asked the question slightly differently….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (because the funds are NOT zero )
Jamie Palisades: which — well I did not check it to bring to this rpeort, but they are pretty high
Rose Springvale: ” can we build a new sim please?”
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, ROse!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should perhaps ask, can we AFFORD it?
Sonja Strom: Here is Sudane’s presentation: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2520
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Taking into account that we have at least the following overhead…
Jamie Palisades: And the answer would be, yes, easily
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have a big bridge ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh thanks, Sonja!)
Jamie Palisades: sure prims are cheap. Wanna build it?
Soro Dagostino: That is getting off topic.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – buying new sim
Rose Springvale: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh
Soro Dagostino: And we are running short on time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ordering a new sim IS budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, Soro,
Jamie Palisades: may I suggest, Soro, that we bring back a CAPITAL budget report to a future meeting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand that we don’t need to put a new sim in the RUNNING budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right
Soro Dagostino: Certainly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I have no more questions then
Jamie Palisades smiles, and for Stui;s benefit, curtsies briefly
Soro Dagostino: Whew!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Soro Dagostino: All in favor of the motion?
Jamie Palisades looks down frowning – must be the damn kilt scripts
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie watch you don’t tuck your plaid skirt into your panty hos
Soro Dagostino: Not jamies curtsy
Jamie Palisades: the, um, approve budget motion sorry
Soro Dagostino: The motion on the floor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
Soro Dagostino: Hello?
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Pip Torok: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
Jamie Palisades: thank you all.
Soro Dagostino: Congratulations to Sudane and jamie.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What was your vote, Soro? (you vote too, you know )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew ? we have a budget *again* ! That’s a rare coccasion in the CDS!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sorry honey
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t eat sushi
StuiChicanne Darkstone: strictly beef!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponent of the In-world status board propsal?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: was looking at gestures
Rose Springvale: carolyn
StuiChicanne Darkstone: someone wanted one
Carolyn Saarinen: That would be me i guess
Soro Dagostino: Report?
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok
Carolyn Saarinen: I consulted with Rose about placement earlier this week…
Carolyn Saarinen: We decided on AA (fortress)…
Carolyn Saarinen: CN (forum)…
Carolyn Saarinen: NFS (Marktplatz)…
Carolyn Saarinen: Being area where citizens/and visitors are already directed for information…
Carolyn Saarinen: Rose was a bit concerned that the set up should be of reasonable size and in-theme at each location…
Rose Springvale smiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a fine concern to have )
Carolyn Saarinen: Rudeen began setting up the first in NFS yesterday.
Carolyn Saarinen: I haven’t seen it yet. Has anyone?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes she asked me for a key
Rose Springvale: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no )
Rose Springvale: its up and running
Soro Dagostino: Any further RA action necessary for today?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and it talked to me today
Soro Dagostino: Caro?
Carolyn Saarinen: yes?
Sonja Strom: I saw Rudeen working on it, but have not seen it completed.
Soro Dagostino: Any further action required from RA today?
Soro Dagostino: Ok, I guess none.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh
Carolyn Saarinen: I don’t think so. You do, technically, owe me L1000
Carolyn Saarinen:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I was opening the notecard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No “actions”, but some discussions I believe?
Rose Springvale: ah, jamie will put that in for reimbursement
Soro Dagostino: Regional commisions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Soro Dagostino: Proponent?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the whole III. point which we have been postponing…
Jamie Palisades: mm hmm?
Jamie Palisades: I can do regonal commissions, but what about point III?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hello , Micael!)
Soro Dagostino: Welcome Micael
Pip Torok: hi Micael
Sonja Strom: Hi Micael
Micael Khandr: (Hello–sorry I am late)
Soro Dagostino: touch the recorder and consent please.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Micael Khandr !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m personally worried that we never manage to *start* discussing III b. at the RA
Jamie Palisades: Rapdily, then, on agenda item II(c)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Jamie Palisades: Micael K, Pip T and Arria P have kindly agreed to serve on various of the regional programming panels. Sonja also has, and would do equally well, though we will need to sort out whether that, or a different role – relating to consulates – is our best use of her gracious volunteer time
Jamie Palisades: And I have two other requests outstanding. Resulting, one hopes, in two persons to convene each of three citizen panels,
Jamie Palisades: As we discussed several meetings ago, these will be open, preannounced meetings, so any citizen can give input, and the conveners will work by consensus to bring results to us for implementation. Those results will be subject to budget approval in the usual way — that is, Rose and Sudane and I will be slightly involved, primarily in payment approvals, to make sure all’s done appropriately.
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: (No hiring your own alt, for example )
Jamie Palisades: Done.
Soro Dagostino: Questions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow that was quick and to the point
Soro Dagostino: Any action required?
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, this time I have no questions lol ? except perhaps if we should create a new forum section just for them?
Soro Dagostino: An executive decision?
Rose Springvale: probably can use the current events place..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right, Soro, sorry!
Pip Torok: I’d suggest we wait for the need for a forum section to arise …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Soro Dagostino: New Business — Commerce Zoning Commission — report?
Jamie Palisades:
Soro Dagostino: Proponent
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I don’t see any action for the RA to take action upon; unless, of course, we want just to pass a vote of confidence that the regional comissions are a “Good Thing” and that the RA is happy about seeing them happen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Soro Dagostino: Stui — status?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well we had a meeting yesterday, it was very busy – lots of heads and talking and lots of good points made and valuable feedback
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have posted a transcript to the forum
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll get the link in a moment
Rose Springvale: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2581
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and we meet next week to further discuss
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and thankyou to Rosy for the link
Rose Springvale:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: progress
Soro Dagostino: Questions
Soro Dagostino: None appearing
Sonja Strom: I have one.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well who could question me ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Sonja Strom: Me!
Sonja Strom: heheeh
Soro Dagostino: Yes Snja
Soro Dagostino: Sonya
Carolyn Saarinen switches to ThinkPol title
Sonja Strom: What role does the Commission play? Should it reach a decision to sugguest to the RA, or be a discussion that brings up ideas?
Sonja Strom: In other words, would it take a vote on what should be done?
Sonja Strom: Thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my opinion, “yes”
Pip Torok: and mine too FWIW
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually mmmh
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well we will bring a report back that will hopefully represent the best concensus that can be reached
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Exec sets covenants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I believe that the RA has to approve them
Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t remember exactly the steps
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *nods to Sonja*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we do our best
Soro Dagostino: If I recall, RA has the final vote.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: for the best outcome possible
Sonja Strom: I am okay with that, so long as there is at some point a report or recommendation made.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too. So these should be recommendations on Covenant changes to be proposed by the Exec to the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and strangely the comission would report first to the EXec but that’s ok, I see from the transcript that the Exec is well-represented at the meeting)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well we do require more than a week to do so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes yes Stui
Soro Dagostino: Stui, there will be additional reports?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No rushing lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have decided to have another meeting next week
Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to table?
Sonja Strom: I understand, but I was wondering about the structure of it – – what it would do.
Rose Springvale: table? report was given….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it took nine months to make me – if you give me one week to change the world I may break
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not table… oh, like Rose said
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Stui!
Soro Dagostino: No action before us?
Jamie Palisades: Nope
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m fine to go to the next point, and thank all the citizens who participated on that meeting ))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, none, Soro.
Sonja Strom: I hope everybody understands why I asked the question I did,
Sonja Strom: but otherwise I am okay with how it is for now.
Soro Dagostino: Ok, looking at the clock.
Soro Dagostino: The Linden partnership issue?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Riiiiiiight

(continued)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder

Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Meeting 11 October 2009: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:45 pm
(continued)

StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sonja we appreciate this is an important issue for CDS and for individuals – we won’t hurry through and we will get a result at the end
Carolyn Saarinen: Well Prokofy Neva hates it!
Soro Dagostino: I propose that it be referred to the executive for analysis.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m involved,and Rosy and Jamie – it’s bound to work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good, Caro! So let’s approve it immediatelY!
Soro Dagostino: And report.
Pip Torok: interesting! (I wonder why??!! ))
Carolyn Saarinen: More seriously it does seem to add some fuel to her Feted Inner Core argument. The LL FAQ even acknowledges that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Caro
Jamie Palisades chuckles. On the partnership, I see no downside. While I think their plan was a whiff of exactly the sort of elistism and favoritizm that Prok hates — that’s not necessariyl a reason for CDS not to take advantage of it
Carolyn Saarinen: However, since the scheme is a fait accomplis, if it brings advantage to the CDS, I for one, am prepared to be pragmatic.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m definitely interested in signing it
Jamie Palisades: Heh we’ll see who they approve
Pip Torok: and me too … in spades
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Isn’t there a deadline for the first submissions?
Soro Dagostino: Jamie you will report at the next meeting?
Jamie Palisades: There is, and I will
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Will we be in time, if we keep postponing the discussion?
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (just being pragmatic here hehe )
Pip Torok: id like to put a motion that Jamie sign it for us ASAP if time is pressing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Without discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Rose Springvale: would like to hear sudane’s experience
Carolyn Saarinen: We need a proposal to ‘sign up’ with I believe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, yes!! Me too!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she’s allowed to give it publicly, of course (she might not be)
Jamie Palisades chuckles. Her experience is with the “Blake Sea” donation of Linden owned sims to the SLNE neigborhood, as I recall
Rose Springvale: maybe we need a special meeting
Jamie Palisades: yes, I hear some of you FIC get put under NDAs, gwynnie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we in the CDS have this big advantage, getting a first-hand report from someone who has been working with LL on this
Jamie Palisades: in the new open Linden regime
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie ? yes, I keep forgetting how many NDA’s I’m under
Jamie Palisades: so here is what I will take away, unless the RA acts otherwise :
Jamie Palisades: 1. wait until we get a report if the deadine allows
Pip Torok: in the end, what does signing ACTUALLY commit us to? .. I suggest nothing yet
Jamie Palisades: 2. signup, if it does not, and we can always withdraw
Pip Torok: my point exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes ? my point is, we will have to move “close” to the mainland, and probably get a few more sims to play with ? that has some implications (General Master Plan AGAIN!)
Jamie Palisades: (nothing there’s no assurance of selection, we not being on anyone;s special buddies list)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You are both right, Jamie & Pip
Rose Springvale: not so sure about that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree
Pip Torok: is that a commitment Gwyn?
Carolyn Saarinen: Why aren’t we on the ‘Special Buddies Lit’?
Jamie Palisades: hmm not necessarily Gwyn but for further discussion – im not sure the only benny of the “new FIC” is free land adjacency
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right about “sign first, see if we got selected, discuss it only if we are”
Pip Torok: i thought we were Caro (if unofficial)
Jamie Palisades: Ok, good we have a plan then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are a few more benefits for sure ? being listed on the Community Gateway page I guess
Pip Torok: i put the motion
Rose Springvale: do we have the personell to support this?
Soro Dagostino: Restate your Motion please?
Pip Torok: i wd certainly give it time
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pip’s motion: “Pip Torok: id like to put a motion that Jamie sign it for us ASAP if time is pressing”
Jamie Palisades: Caro, we actually *act* indpendent – or most of us do – and we are smaller than some of the huge commercial developments — so arguably we owuld not be as handsome a strategic partner, as, say, some commercial interests
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose: that is one of the many concerns, yes
Sonja Strom: Hi Solomon
Pip Torok: to ask our chancellor to sign up, and to do it soon if time is an issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn confirms the seconding of Pip’s motion hehe
Rose Springvale: though LL has been taking care of us lately…
Jamie Palisades: ladies & gentlemen> sounds like a good motion to me .. and one that wil generate another report next mtg
Solomon Mosely: /smiles
Soro Dagostino: The chair has read the LL rules.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at this stage, I believe we’re the oldest community in SL outside of the mainland
Solomon Mosely: poorly
Soro Dagostino: It does not seem to contain a deadline.
Jamie Palisades: I agree Gwyn – even the Edge is gone – and if Luskwood went away, well, grin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe and luskwood is mainland, technically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (even though they have Estate Tools)
Rose Springvale amends all her marketing notecards…
Jamie Palisades: There’a a lot in the app FAQ that *implies* speed, though, Soro
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready for the Question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Rose raised a good question too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (tbd )
Soro Dagostino: BONK BONK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we might need to have a budget for “personell”)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol sorry Soro ? yes, Question please
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro is like Bill Clinton always bonking in the office
Soro Dagostino: The chair comments the motion may be premature.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui
Pip Torok: (hehe:)
Pip Torok: I’d respectfully suggest the motion is not premature
Jamie Palisades: Rose have more? Anyone else?
Jamie Palisades: or can you vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If time is of the essence to be in the *list* of *potential* communities, then the motion is not premature; if afterwards we *do* get selected, as Jamie & Pip pointed out, we can always discuss details and drop it eventually.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’m fine in agreeing to allow Jamie to sign up now, and worry later if we get selected
Soro Dagostino: As respectful as I am about Mr. Palisades and his judgement, I dislike RA allocating its powers to him.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Exec does sign things on behalf of the CDS…
Soro Dagostino: Within his authority.
Rose Springvale: i think we can go ahead like this though
Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, we’re not you are proposing to have me make an revocable act
Rose Springvale: bring back details
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait ? thus the motion, Soro!
Jamie Palisades: nd this is not the kind of thing I would want to sign CDS for, without the RA behidn it, anyway
Sonja Strom: I think in this case it makes sense, because what the Chancellor would be signing us up to is an opportunity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the RA approves that the Chancellor can sign us up on behalf of the CDS, we’re not really “allocating powers” ? we’re delegating the Will of the Citizens to an executive act hehe
Micael Khandr: Agree
Pip Torok: exactly Gwyn!
Soro Dagostino: Should a committee be appointed from the RA to review?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, the SC can always disagree on that interpretation, of course…)
Pip Torok: no … no point imo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No point, unless we get approved… we might not be
Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: why risk losing the opportunity for the sake of a talking shop ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear!
Sonja Strom: We could always withdraw from the partnership, right?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can talk about anything anytime anyone wants…
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they miss the discussion so
Pip Torok: aye
Micael Khandr: Aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye aye aye
Sonja Strom: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !
Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Nay.
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
Soro Dagostino: Any further business?
Soro Dagostino: Do I hear a Motion to adjourn
Pip Torok: so move
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Rose Springvale: wait
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: nm… never get citizens concerns!
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to hear some
Soro Dagostino: Gustav must go.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Pip Torok: true but at this point a citizen WDhave intervened …
Rose Springvale: at least ask.. if they are here for all this time
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* it’s the only polite thing to do!
Soro Dagostino: Ok Any Citizens Concerns?
Rose Springvale: no when the item on the agenda says citizens concerns, and adjournment is asked for instead
Pip Torok: true enough …
Jamie Palisades smiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I mean, Rose, the only polite thing to do is to ask about citizen’s concerns, since the point is on the agenda, BEFORE moving to adjourn!)
Joaquin Gustav: i am sorry i must leave
Rose Springvale: and now everyone is intimidated
StuiChicanne Darkstone: see you soon Joaquin !
Joaquin Gustav: ty soro and everyone
Sonja Strom: ok Joaquin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you, Joaquin )
Rose Springvale: bye joaquin
Jamie Palisades: No prob, thanks Joa
Pip Torok: hehe! (someone doesnt know _me_ …
Soro Dagostino: Hearing no person ready to address the body.
Sonja Strom: Do any citizens here have concerns to bring up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t be shy
Sonja Strom sees no typing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, Stui never is… haha )
Sonja Strom: hahaa
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: i have a lot of things, but not now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Rose Springvale: will ask for agenda time i guess
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “now” would be perfect!
Rose Springvale: nope, pouting
Sonja Strom: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose ? ok, it’s your call, really )))
Rose Springvale: someone should look at the election schedule
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh …
Rose Springvale: well, i just mean
Jamie Palisades smiles
Rose Springvale: if factions are going to be organized
Jamie Palisades: with the new, higher minimum threshold
Rose Springvale: or people recrutied to be citizens before the next election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Soro Dagostino: *sigh*
Rose Springvale: that deadline for citizen ship will be soon
Soro Dagostino: There goes the day.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Soro ))
Jamie Palisades: naah – just a cautionary note for ths month
Rose Springvale: yes, but it takes time to sell to people, and teach them. and i know that at least a few people have talked about an AA faction
Rose Springvale: which doesn’t exist today
Pip Torok: the elephant in the room as far as I’m concerned …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
Rose Springvale: and i look at hte calendar
Rose Springvale: and see one more meeting in october
Carolyn Saarinen: I’d just like to point out that in group terms Andalusians may not be citizens!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Rose Springvale: ?
Pip Torok: ??
Jamie Palisades smiles. How so, Caro?
Carolyn Saarinen: I for one don’t have access to that role in the CDS group
Gwyneth Llewelyn is confused
Rose Springvale: ohhh
Rose Springvale: you mean tags
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
Rose Springvale: i’m working on that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right!
Jamie Palisades: ahhh – well, even if we are behind in group roles
StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s true !
Pip Torok is confused
Jamie Palisades: the citizens list is managed from rent rols
Jamie Palisades: rolls
Rose Springvale: cds group tags
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Jamie Palisades: and rent rolls are managed by Sudane. and posted, and somewhat more up to date
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “groups” is not exactly “important”
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie
Rose Springvale: none of the AA reps have government officials tags either
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s unfair!
Carolyn Saarinen: Ok, I just didn’t know what implications it might ahve
Rose Springvale: nor access to notices
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, don’t worry, Carolyn
Rose Springvale: some real
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just a kitten
Pip Torok: can i suggest that the AA delegates bring this up urgently as an agenda item?
Rose Springvale: they should be able to post to both groups though, and if CDS ra want group powers in teh AA grou p for notices, we can do that too
Micael Khandr: Wouldn’t that just be assumed?
Rose Springvale: all land owners in AA have group notice access
Rose Springvale: well, MK, they have to JOIN the group
Rose Springvale: and may not have groups open
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: No agenda item necessary–just do it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine to send them a “reminder”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I believe that Sudane has a mailing list for every citizen ? it’s little used
Rose Springvale: not since the merger gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *with every citizen’s email, sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s bad!
Rose Springvale: well, we don’t use it in CDS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok hmm
Sonja Strom: Hi Junius
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* ? very seldom ? only sometimes to remind people that the elections are upcoming, but it is inconsistently used
Junius Inaka: Hello
Jamie Palisades smiles
Pip Torok: hi Junius
Jamie Palisades: by the way it’s not just a list
Rose Springvale: hey Junius.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can see Jamie’s cycling shorts
Jamie Palisades: CDS law requires us to post it
Rose Springvale: email?
Jamie Palisades: no, the names of all citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well well. Since we’re over the hour, I propose that we discuss forming an eventual comission to deal with the “citizen roll” next session?
Rose Springvale: thinks she was only talking about email
Rose Springvale: ugh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *could* have a Subscribe-O-Matic or similar thing
Rose Springvale: delegate to the exec lol
Rose Springvale: or hippo groups
Jamie Palisades: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=191
Jamie Palisades:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, or Hippo groups
Micael Khandr: Thisis an excutive function, no?
Rose Springvale: which will tie into our proposed land system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jamie ? right!
Rose Springvale: oh, btw, i’m keeping a list of acts that have expired or need amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, probably the SC has to oversee that the laws in place are being *followed* mmmh
Pip Torok thinks “ah yes … land system …”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, Rose
Soro Dagostino: Any additional Citizen’s concerns?
Rose Springvale: yea, its fascinating reading …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: .)
Rose Springvale: i thought you adjourned and we were just chatting
Soro Dagostino: No.
Pip Torok: no rose …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, we didn’t adjourn formally yet
Soro Dagostino: No vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This all goes on record.
Carolyn Saarinen: no we didn’t adjourn
Rose Springvale: sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why “sorry”? Having the citizen roll up to date is important!
Pip Torok is glad to see it on record
Micael Khandr: Yes
Sonja Strom: We are in the “Concerns of Citizens” section.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too, Pip!
Rose Springvale: i didn’t mean to speak on the record
Rose Springvale: shuts up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww why not?? it’s a quite serious concern, Rose!
Jamie Palisades: no matter was a good idea to get it out
Micael Khandr: Always a lawyer . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes,it was a very good idea indeed
Carolyn Saarinen: Somebody read Rose her Miranda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Caro
Rose Springvale: you have to catch me first
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Carolyn Saarinen: We know were you live!
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if the CDS still has Janitors ? the old police force
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We lost our last member of the Secret Service though ? the one that nobody admits that the CDS had.
Pip Torok recoils in horror … “Janitors?” …
Carolyn Saarinen: Has an SLPD uniform
Rose Springvale: Lilith is a janitor!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pip ? yes, old law!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Rose Springvale: didn’t you see her float?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so Lilith has to know what to do to arrest people!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha true Rose ? lol
Micael Khandr: Are we chatting or is this on the record?
Pip Torok: Now i know why pl dont talk of the “good old days” …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we SHOULD now adjourn
Carolyn Saarinen: still not adjourned
Soro Dagostino: Not adourned.
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves motion to adjourn then
Pip Torok: so move!
Jamie Palisades:
Micael Khandr: I third the motion to adjourn
Soro Dagostino: Wonderful!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Soro
Soro Dagostino: In favor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Micael Khandr: Aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Adjourned at 11:17 PDT.
Rose Springvale: thank you to the RA members for coming… we appreciate your service.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 25 October 2009

RA meeting 25 October: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:47 pm
Meeting on 2009-10-25
Those present:
Cindy Ecksol is in the chair.
Wasp Thor: Hello, everyone
Lilith Ivory: Hi There
Joaquin Gustav: hello, welcome
Rose Springvale: hi Lilith!
Wasp Thor: Hi Micael
Micael Khandr: Hi Wasp.
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Timo Gufler: hi
Lilith Ivory: Hi Timo
Arria Perreault: Hi Timo
Rose Springvale: hi timo… brb. forgot something in my office
Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
Arria Perreault: Hi Cindy
Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
Robert Galland: Hi everyone, sorry, was afk
Cindy Ecksol: ok, I think we’re administratively good.
Cindy Ecksol: recorder is on, so please touch to consent to recording
Robert Galland has indicated consent to be recorded.
Moon Adamant: hello all
Wasp Thor has indicated consent to be recorded.
Joaquin Gustav has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: agendas are in the urn on the floor next to the table here, so please touch to get an agenda
Arria Perreault: Hi SOnja
Joaquin Gustav: ty Cindy
Timo Gufler: Hello Moon and Sonja
Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: and just a “heads up” if you haven’t looked at the forums this morning, you might want to check new postings from Jamie and others
Robert Galland: Ok, thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi all (sorry, lagged out!)
Cindy Ecksol: I’m sure we’ll get links as we go along, but while we’re getting set may as well be productive
Moon Adamant: hmmm packet loss
Cindy Ecksol: morning stui!
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: beat you Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: I was just about to ask what creative spot you were going to sit on today
StuiChicanne Darkstone: snooze you lose
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles and apologises
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t even stand up again, sorry
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy I am not sitting there
Rose Springvale: hi Calli
Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: they want me to conduct the show
Cindy Ecksol: maybe I should make you sit there…..
Callipygian Christensen waves to Rose and everyone else
Joaquin Gustav: hello Calli
Cindy Ecksol: ok, I see a quorum, so let’s get started
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Cindy Ecksol: everyone have the agenda?
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn hasn’t, but don’t mind me.
Rose Springvale: hi brian!
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault: I have a request concerning the agenda
Cindy Ecksol: in the urn, gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: yes, arria….
Rose Springvale: she’s got technical problems
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Cindy, I’m stuck on <0,0,0> – no urn for me
Rose Springvale: gwyn
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: (and a reminder to all that we’ll be using the question queue for questions and comments)
Wasp Thor: Gwyn was on my lap
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s in the urn next to the ashes of a departed linden
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, it’s on the forum here too…hold on I’ll give you a link
Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2590
Arria Perreault: Mrs LRA
I have read your answer in the forum, telling that you don’t add the point I have requested in the agenda. I nevertheless consider that the question of the sale of land owned by CDS and that CDS will sell is an important question. The solution of the executive have been debated in the forum. It is clear to me that the land management is a task of the Executive. When I see the number of parcels for sale and the solution proposed that seems to me subject to critics and questions (as everybody can read in the forum), I consider that the Representative Assembly has to discuss the question of land sale by CDS on a general point of view and to set a frame in which the executive can act. I don’t think that only organization of sales (whatever the method) can solve the main problem (many parcels for sale). This question need a real debate and inputs from many people. For these reasons, I ask this Assembly to set in the Agenda of the meeting a discussion about the Bill I have proposed in the forums at the fo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ( ty, that works )) )
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I shall hold Cindy’s notes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am the glamorous assistant
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Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you arria.
Cindy Ecksol: Before we get specifically to your point, I’d like to ask everyon eto look at the agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom: Did Arria finish?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Arria Perreault: I have given my request. I can give arguments later
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have the link, thanks
Sonja Strom: okay
Cindy Ecksol: you’ll notice that we DO have on the agenda today a discussion of land sales.
Sonja Strom: the “at the fo” ending was a little be incomplete for me.
Cindy Ecksol: I received that request from the Chancellor’s office before Arria posted her proposal and agreed to include it on the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, on III a.
Cindy Ecksol: I’ll also note that I’ve not refused to discuss Arria’s proposal, just asked her to defer iti to a future meeting
Cindy Ecksol: you’ll also notice that the agenda allows 40 minutes to discuss land sales.
Cindy Ecksol: I expect (and hope!) that all who have concerns abou tthat issue will bring them up today.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: and also hope that whatever action the RA takes today, if Arria or others still feel that we need to consider her bill or other alternatives, that they will propose them for a future agenda
Cindy Ecksol: done
Cindy Ecksol: now…
Cindy Ecksol: Arria, are you making a motion that we modify the agenda?
Arria Perreault: I don’t think that the fact that the request of the Executive come before is relevant. I think that my proposal is more general than the one of the Executive
StuiChicanne Darkstone: are we all sitting comfortably – perhaps we should begin
Arria Perreault: I think that the RA has to define a general frame for these sales. So I make a motion.
Cindy Ecksol: stui….we are already discussing the agenda
Cindy Ecksol: Arria — ifi you want your item on the agenda, you (or someone) must make a motion and someone must second.
Cindy Ecksol: what is the motion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The motion to discuss Arria’s proposed bill is on the floor, I think
Cindy Ecksol: goodl.
Cindy Ecksol: do we have a second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d be willing to second that discussion, yes.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: discussion?
Cindy Ecksol: (please queue
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not sure if the chat lag has eaten my seconding… lol
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, my apologies….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wanted to do a very short comment,
Arria Perreault: Motion is: to add a new point in the agenda: Land selling Act (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2583#p13853)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after thinking quite a bit about all this discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that ONE thing is crucial,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whatever the system we decide upon,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it has to be VERY SIMPLE
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, the goal ought to be: “as simple as buying land on any other community”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know that’s a hard goal to set,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but anything “Too complicated”,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: will just drive people away from teh CDS
Rose Springvale: point of order? are we discussion the motion or the addition to the agenda?
Cindy Ecksol: discussion of the motion, rose
Rose Springvale: is that in order?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, my chat lag makes things too confusing for me right now, so I’ll hush and wait patiently for the chat lag to go away. Thanks
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, gwyn.
Cindy Ecksol: rose, you are next in queue…was that your question?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Rose Springvale: not sure what my question is. We have a plan we’ve been working on for months
Rose Springvale: and have had no input from the proponent of this motion
Cindy Ecksol: ok…hold that thought please…
Rose Springvale: query the rationale now
Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to stick to the issue of the agenda
Micael Khandr: Cindy–could you repeat the motion on the floor at the moment please?
Cindy Ecksol: before I call the vote, I’d jus t like to comment that the agenda is tight. we have two hours, I’d like to allow respectful discussion of the Chancellor’s proposal
Arria Perreault: add a new point in the agenda under III Land selling Act (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2583#p13853)
Cindy Ecksol: and also of Arria’s if we vote to add to the agenda.
Arria Perreault: it’s my motion
Cindy Ecksol: I’m not sur ethat we will be able to do both today, so I will say that I plan to vote against modifying the agenda
Cindy Ecksol: any other comments?
Arria Perreault: I will answer to Rose
Rose Springvale: no not now
Cindy Ecksol: no arria, off topic…
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Robert Galland
Cindy Ecksol: yes, robert?
Micael Khandr: Call the vote?
Cindy Ecksol: robert first….
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Robert Galland: As to this motion, I agree with you that we should have time to hear the Chancellor’s proposal today. At the next meeting, Arria’s bill can receive ample attention and we can then vote. So, I hope we decide to split these items up frankly.
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of modifyin gthe agenda to add presentation and discussion
Cindy Ecksol: please say aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Wasp Thor: aye
Micael Khandr: What are we “aye”ing?
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of modifyin gthe agenda to add presentation and discussion
Cindy Ecksol: please say aye
Rose Springvale: cindy
Arria Perreault: aye
Joaquin Gustav: no
Cindy Ecksol: all opposed?
Micael Khandr: no
Robert Galland: no
StuiChicanne Darkstone: nay !
Cindy Ecksol: and I also say nay
Cindy Ecksol: motion fails.
Arria Perreault: May I a question?
Cindy Ecksol: any other modifications to the agenda for today?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion fails with 5 aye and 3 nay?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Cindy Ecksol: no…five nay and 4 aye is my count
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, sonja, wasp, arria in favor….joa, cindy, micael, robert stui opposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I guess my chat is really too unreliable today, sorry
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Micael Khandr: nay
Cindy Ecksol: may I have a motion to approve the agenda please?
Robert Galland: I move so
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Robert Galland: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Wasp Thor: aye
Micael Khandr: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !
Micael Khandr: OK stui . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m excitable today
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: Today?
Cindy Ecksol: motion carries.
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains
Sonja Strom abstains
Cindy Ecksol: naftali has requested a 7 day vote.
Arria Perreault: abstains
Cindy Ecksol: I’m not aware of any others.
Arria Perreault: for the firstmotion too?
Cindy Ecksol: arria, motion to amend the agenda failed. the agenda as proposed was just approved.
Carolyn Saarinen: I’d best abstain since I missed the discussion so far.
Cindy Ecksol: no problem, caro —
Cindy Ecksol: ok…future RA meeting: Nov 8 at 0900
Cindy Ecksol: I will pu tup a Doodle the week before the meeting
Cindy Ecksol: old business
Cindy Ecksol: a. In-world status board. Caro, anything new?
Sudane Erato: i can report on thata, if you wish
Carolyn Saarinen: We agreed locations and at least one has been set up
Cindy Ecksol: ah, great! where do we go?
Carolyn Saarinen: Sudane, please continue
Sudane Erato: the board is all set up, save for one feature, that I’d like to have before i duplicate it..
Sudane Erato: that is
Sudane Erato: a notecard from each member
Sudane Erato: which is given out to the toucher if they wish it
Jamie Palisades: I gather ir hands out blank cards, or nothing, if I click on a member now
Sudane Erato: i’d like that before i duplicate it for the other locations, if possible
Cindy Ecksol: ok, shall I send e-mail to the RA members requesting that they send you a notecard?
Micael Khandr: The notecard? When?
Sudane Erato: yes… there’s an ‘example notecard” in there now
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Autographs ?
Cindy Ecksol: ok….great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And from the Executive too?
Sudane Erato: yes, that would be great
Cindy Ecksol makes a note to followup
Sudane Erato: just the people whose indicators are there
Sudane Erato: RA members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Cindy Ecksol: ok……thanks Caro, sudane
Cindy Ecksol: love to see things get done
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: next item….
Cindy Ecksol: b, Commerce Commission. Stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we held a meeting that was well attended we posted feedback and minutes on the forums… we are to reschedules a meeting at earliest convenience of Rosy and I
Cindy Ecksol: ok, great.
Cindy Ecksol: questions for stui?
Micael Khandr: Why aren’t you wearing a shirt?
Moon Adamant: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Cindy Ecksol: um….about the commission, micael
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was doing a foto for my latest project
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: SpaWorld !
Cindy Ecksol: ok…moving on,…..
Cindy Ecksol: item c. Regional commissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And why are you crying, Stui? (sorry, please disregard that!)
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, anything new?
Cindy Ecksol: whoops…thought I saw jamie…maybe not
Rose Springvale: he’s here….
Moon Adamant: he’s here
StuiChicanne Darkstone: he’s over my shoulder
Cindy Ecksol: oh, there you are….anything new, jamie?
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Moon Adamant pokes Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Moon flick his hearing aid
Jamie Palisades raises eyebrow
Jamie Palisades: hearing aid? heh
StuiChicanne Darkstone: or ear trumpet
Moon Adamant:
Jamie Palisades: Anything new, well, yes, I still have three people who I;m waiting to get a yes from
Jamie Palisades: so
StuiChicanne Darkstone: am I one of them ?
Jamie Palisades: by thext wednesday I will ask each of them one more time, then move on with alternatives or without them
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL* I’ll say yes to anything
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks….
Jamie Palisades: I don;t think so, STui, I thikn you and i talked about you being mor likely …
Wasp Thor: Stui, was anything accomplished in the meeting
Jamie Palisades: … to be a arts prograsm CR$EATOR applyibng for funds, than a neutral funds doler0out
Lilith Ivory: as soon as I can see it lol
Jamie Palisades: oops, whihc agenda item are we on?
Cindy Ecksol: actually we’re on “regional commissions”
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Moon Adamant: eheheh
Jamie Palisades: did we mov4e on the regional commissions? apologies if not, that’s what I was answering
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Jamie Palisades: (and have completed, with the note that we’ll fniish all appointments this week)
Cindy Ecksol: stui, did you want to make a quick reply to Wasp on her question?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: have done in IM
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks….
Wasp Thor: I sorry..
Wasp Thor: I’m Sorry! for the troublew
Wasp Thor: trouble
Cindy Ecksol: no problem — bad lag -)
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Cindy Ecksol: next item
Cindy Ecksol: Linden partnership status
Jamie Palisades: Right. If I may
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, I believe you posted to forums on this?
Jamie Palisades: link to the item is here:
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2594
Jamie Palisades: and I havce recommended we procees
Jamie Palisades: *proceed
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: the only thing the program semes to DO, for now …
Jamie Palisades: is supply extra joining connective sims
Jamie Palisades: between a participating sim and … something else
Jamie Palisades: so in this additional post:
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2595
Jamie Palisades: I asked you aanother question: do we in fact want to do what our Sudane here has done with her SLNE — hook up phsyically with someone? or the mainland?
Jamie Palisades: if so trhe program will have much more meaning to us.
Jamie Palisades: I suggest you have two quetsions for the RA
Jamie Palisades: (qa) SHall we apply? (I think so, and think it’s harmless)
Jamie Palisades: and
Jamie Palisades: (qb) DO we ant to pursue land joining? Or just bask in the possible glory of Favored Estate Thingie, and wait to see what other goodies are involved?
Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… more like a reply actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it’s mostly a decision of the Exec,
Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d definitely like to propose a motion to approve the Exec’s suggestion to apply for the Linden programme
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, as a side note,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (again, also an Exec decision; we can just appluad it or ignore it)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that means the guild should think about the best way to “join” the mainland
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Historically, it would be fun to be as close to Anzere as possible,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that might be a) impossible b) found not to be feasible c) LL might not like it
Jamie Palisades nodfs
Carolyn Saarinen: Anzere?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, to recap, I definitely support this Executive decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks!
Jamie Palisades: (and is there anyone ELSE we’d want to be next to? tough one)
Timo Gufler thinks that it would be great to have CDS in front of a sea
Rose Springvale: excuse me
Moon Adamant: Caro, CDS’ hub in the mainland
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Caledon!)
Rose Springvale: ther are lots of newcomers here
Jamie Palisades: (the original mainland home of CDS, Caro)
Cindy Ecksol: (thx rose)
Cindy Ecksol: and thx gwyn
Carolyn Saarinen: Ah, “when dinosaurs ruled the grid”
Cindy Ecksol: hold that motion for a moment, gwyn and we’ll get a second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
Sudane Erato: hehe
Cindy Ecksol: but I think Moon is up next
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Moon Adamant
Moon Adamant: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: Moon, you have the floor
Moon Adamant: ok, my question has justly to do with land joining, granting of sims by LL, etc
Moon Adamant: we hae a GMP approved, and being revised
Moon Adamant: this GMP implies expansion in sims and in themes
Moon Adamant: it also implies considerable landforming
Rose Springvale: (GMP = General master plan, for zoning)
Micael Khandr: TY
Moon Adamant: this is not really a question, but a suggestion that
Moon Adamant: hmmm we check carefully if we can still pursue the GMP and the expansions planned
Moon Adamant: namely as to what regards land, and space for future themes
Moon Adamant: done
Jamie Palisades: for information, if there are no obections, what I wqould like to do is submit the app and say we are “interested” in exploring land joins, potentially, noting that as one part of the program, but only subject to further examination. Within CDS we would need to do a planning process — whether by the Guild, if it continues to be viable as a currenbt source of public planning assistance as it once was, or otherwise as the RA sees fit. Today’s plan is to indicate interest in the program, not to commit to any land acts
Cindy Ecksol: done jamie?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Cindy Ecksol
Cindy Ecksol: ah…I’m next
Jamie Palisades: yes thx
Cindy Ecksol: question for jamie: don’t we have to come up with some kind of a “project” to apply for this program? if not, I’m not sure what, exactly, it’s about. what are the benefits to us if not for a joint project?
Jamie Palisades: Fair poinbt
Jamie Palisades: No, we don;t need to do so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question!
Jamie Palisades: the program is unspecified as to the possible goodies
Jamie Palisades: buit
Jamie Palisades: ]the only one trhat we’ve seen SO FAR
Jamie Palisades: is the land deal
Cindy Ecksol nods
Jamie Palisades: If Sudane comes bgack, mayb ew3e shud get a few comments from her on her perception of the Blake Sea deal?
Carolyn Saarinen: Typical LL! Sign up now, we’ll you what for later.
Jamie Palisades: which really is the beta test of this program
Cindy Ecksol: yeah, really!
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: Rose?
Cindy Ecksol: Rose, you have the floor
Rose Springvale: i just wanted to point out that we already HAVE a project.. the democracy experiment
Rose Springvale: so lots of logical tie ins
Cindy Ecksol perks up her ears
Rose Springvale: done
Rose Springvale: lol
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we could do a CDS charity calendar !
Cindy Ecksol: followup…rose, what kind of logical tie ins?
Cindy Ecksol: I have not been able to think of any that LL could hgelp with
Rose Springvale: i mean what we are doing now is more project than most sims
Rose Springvale: self government IS a project
Cindy Ecksol: yes…but what would we ask LL to help with if we could??
Carolyn Saarinen: We could offer to ‘civilize’ the Mainland
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: smiles. that’s to be seen.
Sonja Strom is working on that in Arosa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s our Hidden Agenda?, Caro & Rose ,)
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Rose Springvale: isn’t bay city that?
Jamie Palisades smiles. Arowse. We may talk about that too, soon,
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Moon Adamant
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we could ask LL to set up our welfare state !
StuiChicanne Darkstone: for poor SLers
Cindy Ecksol: Moon, you had another question or comment?
Moon Adamant: mind two things here, after reading the link
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, “ask”? *My* hidden agenda is to push LL out of the mainland altogether, and replace the Governance Team with the CDS.
Moon Adamant: one is that apparently we lose some estate powers
Moon Adamant: 4.Ban capabilities will not be granted to Residents on Mainland or in Community Partnership Areas.
Moon Adamant: and also, apparently problems will have to be solved through the Issue Tracker
Moon Adamant: now, hmmm
Carolyn Saarinen: ie ignored
Moon Adamant: well, last time i used teh issue tracker, they replied in 48 hours
Moon Adamant: so… my question is… what powers of estate do we keep?
Carolyn Saarinen: your milage may vary ;/
Robert Galland: Good question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good questions ? Sudane might be able to answer some of them!
Jamie Palisades: FWIW, it was my impression that those statements (Moon mentioned about limited powers) only apply to the new land provided as Linden voids – not to a partner’s own estate land. May I suggest we turn to Sudane who has experience with this in the Blake project?
Moon Adamant: you see, these deals with LL are always good to check what happens done
Jamie Palisades: (Sorry if we collided there Moon)
Cindy Ecksol: ah, yes.!
Cindy Ecksol: ok, queue that one up for sudane….
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, I think you have said what you queued to say, no?
Jamie Palisades: i yield my time to Sudane, that’s why I hit to Big ?
Cindy Ecksol: Sudane, can you tell u swhat you know about “no ba powers”?
Cindy Ecksol: *ban
Cindy Ecksol: etc.
Sudane Erato: Ban powers in the Blake Sea?
Cindy Ecksol: yes…moon mentioned that powers in “community partnership” areas are limited
Cindy Ecksol: do you know anything about this?
Sudane Erato: well… this is a very complicated questionm
Cindy Ecksol: does it just apply (as Jamie mentioned) in “granted” areas?
Sudane Erato: they have n ow finally just arrived at a structure
Sudane Erato: there will be a designed group of people with *parcel* autority
Sudane Erato: not estate authroity
Sudane Erato: and the total intent is to facilitate the races
Sudane Erato: not particularly to exert general authroity
Cindy Ecksol: ok, so may be specific to that particular project?
Sudane Erato: if we want to delve into this in detail… we’d have to go into a lot of discusssion… but obviously, this is a very difficult topic for LL
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks
Cindy Ecksol: let’s defer….
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn made a motion to authorize Chancellor to apply on CDS behalf to the program
Cindy Ecksol: do we have a second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second
Sonja Strom: I thought this was passed in our last meeting?
Cindy Ecksol did not see it in minutes
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye !
Micael Khandr: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye !!
Sonja Strom: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Arria Perreault: aye
Cindy Ecksol: any opposed?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Cindy Ecksol: abstentions?
Robert Galland: aye, sorry,
Wasp Thor: aye
Cindy Ecksol: motion carries. Jamie, why don’t you post the application to the forum when you get it filled out.
Pip Torok: am present … too late to vote?
Pip Torok: ah ok … thank you
Cindy Ecksol: it’s unanimous, pip, but you can vote if you touch the recorder first
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, moving on — Al Andalus citizens — CDS group roles?
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, I think you were going to do something about that….
Jamie Palisades smniles
Jamie Palisades: may i just inform the RA that my colleague the AA estate owner and I have no idea what this item is about?
Rose Springvale: lol
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Jamie Palisades: perhaps a communication now or later would help?
Sudane Erato:
Rose Springvale: i think you are refering to upgrading group roles but not AA group roles lol
Jamie Palisades: who, for example, asked for the item?
Sonja Strom: I thought we talked about this in the last meeting too…
Carolyn Saarinen: In my case it’s been dealt with, I can’t speak for others
Pip Torok: which item are we on please?
Cindy Ecksol: was discussing the fact that at last meeting Carolyn mentioned that AA “citizens” did not have “citizen” role in CDS group
Micael Khandr: Not in my case . . .
Cindy Ecksol: iie Pip
Jamie Palisades: any chyance of this item bgeing, ah, defined, by its proponent, whoever that might be?
Rose Springvale: oh… let me get back to that
Jamie Palisades: AH
Pip Torok: tks cindy
Jamie Palisades: thanks better
Cindy Ecksol: sorry….
Rose Springvale: i can fix them cindy, sorry, didn’ tknow it was on agenda
Jamie Palisades: just so yu know, we have been rolling through adding them all
Jamie Palisades: but
Cindy Ecksol: IIe.
Jamie Palisades: quite a few
Jamie Palisades: ar eohnly ihtermittently in SL
Jamie Palisades: so we get offers than lay around or even expire
Jamie Palisades: *that
Cindy Ecksol: ok, as long as it’s being addressed. just looking for status.
Jamie Palisades: Shall we just plaan to report it’s completed by next meeting, then?
Cindy Ecksol: yes, please…
Jamie Palisades: ok thx
Cindy Ecksol: next item: II f. election dates
Cindy Ecksol:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *considers Pinching Robert’s shirt*
Cindy Ecksol: New term begins: 1 Feb 2010
Elections: 9-16 Jan 2010
Candidate declaration deadline: 25 Dec 2009
Faction viability date: 25 Dec 2009
Citizen list certification: 12 Dec 2009
Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2579
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
Cindy Ecksol: stui, you have the floor
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Christmas DAY !?
Cindy Ecksol: can be BEFORE that, stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will have my hand up a turkey’s bits and bobs that day
Cindy Ecksol: just not after….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: what happens if as an 11th hour decision I plop the giblets on the keyboard ?
Moon Adamant: lol
Cindy Ecksol: this is the last time elections will happen in this timeframe
Jamie Palisades: Then you have a messy keyboard.
Arria Perreault: it’s the deadline
Cindy Ecksol: just need to deal with it once more.
Cindy Ecksol wipes hand across brow
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Cindy Ecksol: on to New Business!!!
Jamie Palisades: (Yes, this is not the result of your act, but rather, the usual dates, applied the last time before your changes, correct)
Cindy Ecksol: yes, exactly…
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Robert can supply me with the LM for his shirt for my Christmas gift
Cindy Ecksol: last time for lousy election deadlines….
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Cindy Ecksol: Rose — land sales proposal please!
Robert Galland: Sure
Rose Springvale: yielding to the Chancellor
Jamie Palisades: Rose? yOU WANT TO LEAD OFF, OR SHOUDOL i SAY A FEW WORDS FIRST?
Cindy Ecksol reminds everyone to queue for questions so rose can finish>
Cindy Ecksol: or Jamie…
Rose Springvale: you
Jamie Palisades: (oopsd caps, sorry)
Jamie Palisades: ok then\…
Rose Springvale: (see, he yells!)
Rose Springvale:
Jamie Palisades: ok folks Like my new microphone talking toy?
Jamie Palisades: First the URL link
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2583
Rose Springvale had to cam in, looked like litiths rats
Jamie Palisades: second the short background
Lilith Ivory: looks like a wipe for me
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie I want your best rendition of Mustang Sally
Jamie Palisades: (heh it IS one of her rats – shh )
Jamie Palisades give sthe micorphone an Ozzy Ozbourne look
Jamie Palisades: background, ahem
Jamie Palisades: once upon a time
Pip Torok: insulting my sally mustang, stu!
Jamie Palisades: CDS sold land through Sudane as estate owner
Jamie Palisades: there was a website listing
Jamie Palisades: a hope to keep it better updated
Jamie Palisades: she tried to keep an informal waiting list
Jamie Palisades: and there usually was one
Jamie Palisades: then
Jamie Palisades: we converted to selling CDS-owned land, in existing sims, by yellow map sale
Jamie Palisades: in other words, anyone can grab it
Jamie Palisades: like Linden mainland
Jamie Palisades: some estates never did that
Jamie Palisades: Caledon comes to mind
Jamie Palisades: becaue they did not like missing the opportunity to meet & greet newbies
Jamie Palisades: we still do NOT do that with NEW sims
Jamie Palisades: last term
Jamie Palisades: I told the RA I thought we should abandon the yellow map plan
Jamie Palisades: and was asked to propose an alternative, and notify the RA
Jamie Palisades: \(as usual, so you can stop us if we’re doing something wrong )
Jamie Palisades: Rose’s posting, the URL above
Jamie Palisades: is that proposal.
Jamie Palisades: We ALSO have recently discvussed another change
Jamie Palisades: or several – about land PRICES
Jamie Palisades: Arria suggested that we auctio off land to the highest bidder
Jamie Palisades: I suggested we give it away and just collect tier
Jamie Palisades: interesting ideas
Jamie Palisades: but not today’s problem
Jamie Palisades: today’s issue is that Rose and I plan to start using the 7 day advance notice – then lottery – method
Jamie Palisades: unles you tell us not to so do by a bill.
Jamie Palisades: May I ask Rose to amplifgy a little, about what our current vacxancies and proospectxs condition is, and how we came to this plan?
Rose Springvale: sure, but i’m not touching the rat
Rose Springvale: thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn just sees a rabbit but no rats
Rose Springvale: we have today, abandoned or otherwise repossessed land in CDs of about 23 parcels
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
Rose Springvale: because there have been inssues in the past about who got to buy the land
Rose Springvale: we looked for a way that would be completely fair.
Rose Springvale: not sensitive to time zone
Rose Springvale: not sensitive to “my friends”
Rose Springvale: not sensitive to faction or project or old timer or newbie
Rose Springvale: the result was a lottery… which hopefully you’ve all read about
Rose Springvale: on Tuesday, i sent out notices to both our groups
Rose Springvale: together representing about 400 individuals
Rose Springvale: and posted on the forums… what land is available NOW
Rose Springvale: there is more that will come available as we process it through the CDS reposession procedure, but this is land that right now is NOT paying tier
Rose Springvale: IF
Rose Springvale: more than one person wants parcels of that land
Pip Torok: link to that “lottery” please?
Rose Springvale: THEN we have the “drawing.”
Rose Springvale: jamies link Pip
Rose Springvale: Timo very kindly created a script
Jamie Palisades: Pip: the idea here, but the extacly method to be disvussed (see Timo’s post in that thread) viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2583
Rose Springvale: which i’ve placed in the prim at the back of the room with the CDS flag logo
Rose Springvale: any of you can see how that works.
Pip Torok: tks jamie
timos random block: Cindy Ecksol cast dice and got 5.
timos random block: Cindy Ecksol cast dice and got 3.
timos random block: Jamie Palisades cast dice and got 5.
timos random block: Jamie Palisades cast dice and got 4.
timos random block: Cindy Ecksol cast dice and got 1.
Rose Springvale: this just gives a way to randomize selections.
Sudane Erato:
timos random block: Micael Khandr cast dice and got 4.
Jamie Palisades smiles.
timos random block: Micael Khandr cast dice and got 5.
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: okay, stop the spam!
Rose Springvale:
Micael Khandr:
Jamie Palisades: Are we all toy-craxy, or what?:
Rose Springvale: however, most parcels have not got multiple party’s interest… so may never be an issue
Micael Khandr: You said to touch it . . .
Rose Springvale: Mostly, this gets land back on the roles, in the hands of people who want it and is indiscriminatory.
Rose Springvale: More jamie?
Jamie Palisades: I don’t think so. Thanks. Questions?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
timos random block: Wasp Thor cast dice and got 2.
Cindy Ecksol: arria, you have the floor
Arria Perreault: Thank you
Pip Torok: yes … what stops ppl from applying for every plot on the list?
Jamie Palisades: May I?
Jamie Palisades: 1. Our land concentration covenants
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pippet – the question doofah
Pip Torok: (sorry ms LRA)
Jamie Palisades: 2. The faqct that they will be evicted of they are not current on ALL parcels
Jamie Palisades: 3. heh heh
Jamie Palisades: economics of SL – there’s almost zero arbitrage gain
Arria Perreault: I have several questions/suggestions, some on the general problem and some on the proposal of the Executive
Jamie Palisades: and if we try it for this term and do not like the resultws? Fine
Jamie Palisades: and may I point out, some spendthrift could do the same thing in an auction
Jamie Palisades: or under CURRENT law
Jamie Palisades: any of those three ways, they are stuck with our land – and we get paid
Cindy Ecksol: ok, folks….arriai has the floor!
Jamie Palisades: So I think that’s a false issue
Jamie Palisades: Sorry, was answering
Arria Perreault: I ask first
Arria Perreault: or are you diviner
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead arria
Cindy Ecksol: jamie idd not realize that pip was not you
Jamie Palisades: (erk, I answered and only then noticed it was Pip, my apologies to Arria also)
Arria Perreault: I would like to question first the calender: why are we so slow? The yellow map story is not from yesterday.
I would like also ask another question: who are trying to reach for these sales?
Citizen or potential new citizen?
Why the sales of the Monastery sims parcels have been stopped, although there were new lands?
Arria Perreault: Jamie’s introduction shows also that this is a general problem: land sale. I continue to believe that we need a strong frame and some new ideas.
Jamie Palisades politely waits to see when and if an answer from th e government is desired
Arria Perreault: With the proposal whe have to discuss, I have two problems
how to make a random drawing?
It is important that the executive gives garanties about the random drawing process. There are suggestions. It is also important to determine which branch is responsible for the random drawing. In any case, the script that is used must be published and accepted by the SC. The drawing must be done in presence of SC members.
Arria Perreault: how people can announce their interest for a plot ?
As the principal expectation from citizen is the transparency, I think that inscriptions have to be transparent. I am in favour of an inscription on the forum or the blog, instead of a mail to any mail-adress..
timos random block: Moon Adamant cast dice and got 2.
Arria Perreault: Finally I have proposed to use the auction to sell this land. It is a very common system to sell items (even for a state). Linden Lab use it and eBay is very popular. It means that many people can use it. It is also the most transparent system and the easiest to manage. The result is clear and never subject to the critic. Everyone can see who is buying and what it to buy and can even show her/his intererest. Poeple can also negociate in the background as the auction will be for a certain period. As the competition is not very high, I don’t expect that prices will increase.
Arria Perreault: Done
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, would you like to respond to Arria?
Jamie Palisades grins
Rose Springvale: smiles
Jamie Palisades: lots of questions there
Jamie Palisades: about six
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Can we get a bingo machine ?
Arria Perreault: of course
Jamie Palisades: so let’s try a short answer
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will do the calling
Jamie Palisades: 1. Arria asks about timing of this plan
Jamie Palisades: Rose an dI work for CDS, as volunteers, and often not as fast as some RA members might wish
Jamie Palisades: My three pr4edecessors as Chancellor showed up at RA meetings – and indeed in CDS — approximately
Jamie Palisades: bimonthly. never, and monthly
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: slow as we are
Jamie Palisades: I believe we are working with resaonble diligence
Jamie Palisades: and as we informed the RA
Jamie Palisades: this inmportant issue is the one we decided to focus on after Oktoberfest
Jamie Palisades: and here we are
Jamie Palisades: #2
Jamie Palisades: Arria mentions the SC
Jamie Palisades: it is my belief
Jamie Palisades: that the structure of our government
Jamie Palisades: expects the executive (including Sudane) to set up and execut4 fair systems
Jamie Palisades: for the RA to oversee and constrain them by legislation
Jamie Palisades: and for the SC to adjudicate if they are UNfair by breaking our laws
Jamie Palisades: i;m not sure giving this one to the SC would be either structurally sound, or sensible
Jamie Palisades: they, ah, meet even less than they did back when the SC was all Gywn
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
Jamie Palisades: THey’re3 better at appeals than administration in my voiew
Jamie Palisades: #3
Jamie Palisades: Arria proposes auction
Jamie Palisades: i believe that is NOT is use in SL land much at all
Jamie Palisades: and that the reason for that is twofold
Jamie Palisades: (q) we are in a significantly declining land sale market in SL
Jamie Palisades: most big estates, even well run, have much higher default vacxancy rates than CDS
Jamie Palisades: which means
Jamie Palisades: they lose rent
Jamie Palisades: they;re “in the red”negative cash flor
Jamie Palisades: *flow
Jamie Palisades: and they close sims
Jamie Palisades: nboty what I;d like to see
Jamie Palisades: (b) auctions maximize SALE price
Jamie Palisades: at the expense of LESS monthly rent
Jamie Palisades: that’s directly AGAINST our interest as CDDS
Jamie Palisades: which is to live off the monthly rent, and keep ourselves with a high occupancy
Jamie Palisades: I can see how persons
Jamie Palisades: ?me smiles at a few R$A members
Jamie Palisades: with their own land or projects to sell
Jamie Palisades: might want US to charge high prices
Jamie Palisades: but that’s not in OUR best interest.
Jamie Palisades: Finally
Jamie Palisades: \#4
Jamie Palisades: Arria asks
Jamie Palisades: whay we mostly stoppe dland sales for a few weeks
Jamie Palisades: qs previously discussed here
Jamie Palisades: two reasons again – given that we could sustain the cash flow problem without risk
Jamie Palisades: (a) we knew a new system is imminent, unless the RA stops it
Jamie Palisades: so better to have all land on a fair equal platform\
Jamie Palisades: and (b) Rowe an dI were criticiazed by Timo and Pip, so felt we shoud do nothing until the RA was fully briefed
Jamie Palisades: *rose and I
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: mnid you
Jamie Palisades: favoritism aboundewd in CDS at timres for uyears before I arrived, in my prsonal view
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: if peopel chgoose to speak up now, not then, that[‘s their choice
Jamie Palisades: our hjob is simply to MAKE it fair now
Jamie Palisades: so that’s our p0lan and motive. Let me finally, in fairness to Arria
Jamie Palisades: point out that she has a personal interest in being relieved of her company’s guareantee
Jamie Palisades: on the Monastery parcelos
Jamie Palisades: and so
Jamie Palisades: if our hold has disadvantaged her
Jamie Palisades: I suggest she ask the RA to relieve her of the continuing rent guarantee on the parcels not offered yet for sale
Jamie Palisades: that woud seem fair tyo me – but is for her to propose if she w3sihes.
Jamie Palisades: Thanks, done – did I catch all the questions?
Rose Springvale: transparency
Arria Perreault: one is remainng
Cindy Ecksol: arria, do you have a followup?
Jamie Palisades smiles, listens
Arria Perreault: you did not answer on transparency: any comment on the idea that people announced their intention on the forum ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn thanks Jamie for the very thorough explanation
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Arria, ar eyou asking whether a queue for land sales woudl be published, so people see who is bidding?
Arria Perreault: instead to write a mail, people write their name on the forum with the code of the parcel(s). We did this with good results in the opning of AM and LA
Jamie Palisades: Interesting though. Let me defer to Rose – but it;ps worth disvcussing, surely. You get a different result, if people SHOW wh’;s interested, mayb, than if requests are anonymous
Rose Springvale: thanks
Jamie Palisades: Rose?
Rose Springvale: i’ve posted the list on the forum and asked for people to indicate interest by way of notecard to me, or email
Rose Springvale: the reason for that is two fold
Rose Springvale: one
Rose Springvale: some people are not eligible for one reason or another
Rose Springvale: out of respect for privacy, i’d rather discuss those issues personally
Rose Springvale: second
Rose Springvale: because the point of this excercise is fairness
Rose Springvale: it did not seem to be in the best interest of CDS for people to enter into the pool based on who else wanted land
Pip Torok: hear hear
Rose Springvale: we all have our people we like or don’t like so much
Rose Springvale: thanks pip, i’ll use you lol
Rose Springvale: if i don’t want pip for a neighbor, it might encourage me to compete for a parcel
Wasp Thor: hahahahaha
Rose Springvale: CDS is not a popularity contest, and our land sales shouldn’t be either
Rose Springvale: also, because many people who may want to buy our land are NOT citizens now
Rose Springvale: posting on forums eliminates their options
Jamie Palisades: Yeah, I’m going to buy all the rest of the land in AM as a member of the League Against English Poetry Read in Charming Voices
Rose Springvale: smiles
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Rose Springvale: done
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Pip Torok
Sudane Erato:
Moon Adamant:
Pip Torok: )
Cindy Ecksol: Pip, you have a question or comment?
Arria Perreault: Me frst?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: in the Q
Pip Torok: yes .. just to say tht the wghole principle of money in auctions is unequal unfair and pernicious to evrything CDS stans for … do we want money to rule?
Pip Torok: finished
Cindy Ecksol: thanks piip
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
Cindy Ecksol: Stui?
Cindy Ecksol: and then Arria next if you still have a followup
Arria Perreault: Cindy, you did not let me answer …
Arria Perreault: ok
Cindy Ecksol thinks one folllowup at a time allows us to be fair to all who want to speak
Micael Khandr: (whistles to himself)
Cindy Ecksol waits for stui to finish typing
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think it a ridiculous notion to have an auction and more so for there to be published interest because people will just push up prices to be petty and well if you want land you will throw your hat in without caring who else wants land – why else would anyone propose a wish to know who is interested but to be sour grapes ?
Cindy Ecksol: thanks stui.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arria could answer me perhaps ?
Cindy Ecksol: arria, you had another question?
Cindy Ecksol: (or comment or answer to stui)
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Arria Perreault: I will answer to Jamie and then to Stui
Arria Perreault: Jamie said “she ask the RA to relieve her of the continuing rent guarantee on the parcels not offered yet for sale”. I don’t have to do that, because it was the deal between CDS and I: 4 months
Arria Perreault: SC: for me, it is more a question of setting a rigourous process than any mistrust
Arria Perreault: Inscription on forum: we got no critic on the 2 experiences we did. It worked very well
Arria Perreault: Again, it seems to be important that some people can negociate if they have interesting projects. For example, Ulysse and I, we have a houe on 4 plots in LA. Imagine if one of the four parcel was given to someone else?
Sudane Erato: ??
Arria Perreault: In this case, I would have tryed to buy it again very expensive …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “given”?
Rose Springvale is lost
Arria Perreault: Auction is still for me the more transparent and self-organised system
Cindy Ecksol looks at time….
Micael Khandr: 2minutes . . .
Cindy Ecksol: done arria?
Arria Perreault: Yes, our big villa in LA: we need 4 specific plots to built it
Jamie Palisades: Me looks at his place in queue, smiles
Arria Perreault: how to get get for a project with this system?
Arria Perreault: done
Cindy Ecksol: thx
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Moon Adamant is going to plump the sofa pillows at the School for the Guild meeting next. Waves see you later )
Jamie Palisades: thanks
Jamie Palisades: I can offline explain why I do not think ARri’s 1-of-4 case would occur
Jamie Palisades: but generaqlly
Jamie Palisades: two things
Arria Perreault: online, please
Jamie Palisades: 1. This is under our law the system we will implement
Jamie Palisades: unless the RA stops it. Just so you know
Jamie Palisades: RA action is not required
Jamie Palisades: and
Jamie Palisades: 2.
Jamie Palisades: I encourge your input about how to improve it
Jamie Palisades: If I may be candid among friends in a smjall town. Arria, my reading of your proposal is, basically, that someone who writes that might not trust us to do it fairly and right, and so wish to take away as much power as possible from the government Now, if that’s correct, then that’s a respectable position .. you could join our own US Republican Party happily, like Mr Reagan and Mr Bush. But: the question of trust is a fair one. Our current system puts a LOT of trust in a few individuals – like Sudane and Gwyn. It’s healthy to ask if that’s a good system. So let me ask: Arria, do you think that there is a way for us to MAKE the lottery-allocation system Rose has proposed MORE safe for fairness? Already, I think, the SC could appeal and overturn any land sale act. What more is needed? Or do some of you, ah, just LIKE the SC members better?
Jamie Palisades: suggestions for improvement ar ewelcome — now — or later — and I expect we will talk about PRICE at the next RA meeting
Jamie Palisades: now that all are on notice that there MIGHT be a radical change to price, smile
Jamie Palisades: that will have whatever market effects it will have
Jamie Palisades: thanksd done
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
Cindy Ecksol: sonja?
Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor
Sonja Strom: My main concern is transparency.
Sonja Strom: Here we are talking about:
Sonja Strom: people who want land would send an email one individual to say they would like a parcel for free.
Sonja Strom: The land would be given to them unless more than one person requested it, in which case the recipient would be chosen by a roll of dice?
Sonja Strom: I find this a questionable practice.
Sonja Strom: In my view an auction would be a more open and fair structure.
Jamie Palisades: and maximize cds prices nice for any compeititors
Sonja Strom: If only one person wanted a parcel, then the price of it would not go high in an auction.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you are rich it’s fair
Sonja Strom: Thanks
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Wasp Thor
Cindy Ecksol: Wasp, you have the floor
Wasp Thor: LL is losing money due to the adult mandate from congress..and a lot of the large sims are closing…we have to have a simple way to to get the land to as many as possible and depend on the tier…anything else is a waste of time and not realistic to the falling market
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear!
Cindy Ecksol nods in agreement
Cindy Ecksol: done wasp?
Wasp Thor: yes
Cindy Ecksol: ok…
Pip Torok: is money vs money ever fair?
Cindy Ecksol: we do not need a motion to approve — as jamie points out, land admin is in the realm of the exec
Rose Springvale: i should be in queue madam lra
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: ok, rose?
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead…
Rose Springvale: two points. one, the proposal we will be implementing applies at present only
Rose Springvale: to land that is in inventory. Arria points to LA and AM as “successful” examples
Rose Springvale: i’d submit it was successful to the people who got what they wanted
Rose Springvale: there were people who were NOT happy
Rose Springvale: who wanted watefront
Rose Springvale: or a certain set of parcels
Rose Springvale: so you need to remember that this applies to people who aren’t sitting here with 4 contiguouse parcels as well
Rose Springvale: as for auctions
Rose Springvale: LL does hold auctions
Rose Springvale: i participated in one a few weeks ago
Rose Springvale: wanted a particular parcel along a road and a bigger one behind
Rose Springvale: i ended up winning.. the bigger oen
Rose Springvale: but losing the roadfront
Rose Springvale: so the project was ruind. Auctions let that happen
Rose Springvale: finally
Rose Springvale: with all due respect
Rose Springvale: the references to transparency imply that our predecessors were trustworthy
Rose Springvale: our SC is trustworthy, but “we” in the exec office suddenly can’t be trusted to flip a coin?
Arria Perreault: the principle “first ask, first served” was not good. but the transparency was good. And it is always possible to discuss.
Rose Springvale: makes me wonder why we are spending all our time here
Robert Galland: Nods
Rose Springvale: sure, and to gouge arria
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Rose Springvale: done
Cindy Ecksol: thx
Cindy Ecksol: ok, as jamie mentioned no RA approval is needed.
Cindy Ecksol: so if no other questions will close this item and go on to finish the meeting with IV and V
Micael Khandr: We are past two hours, Madame Chairperson.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Robert Galland: Tes, thank you, I have to get going myself
Robert Galland: tes=yes
Cindy Ecksol: ok, concerns of ra members?
Cindy Ecksol: and may as well queue concerns of citizens and announcements as well
Cindy Ecksol: ……
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Rose Springvale: yes, i want to encourage everyone to go see the haunted schloss, courtesy of miss Lilith
Rose Springvale: and the catacombs of course
Cindy Ecksol: lol! got lost there once….
Rose Springvale: and to submit notecards if you want to be in the Fall decorating contest
Rose Springvale: and wathc for announcement of a party next week.. haveing some scheduling issues
Robert Galland: Thanks everyone
Jamie Palisades smiles. Informally, please be advised, I will bring proposed action items next time and request agenda time for (a) land prices, and (b) possible covenant changes.
Lilith Ivory smiles
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I get lost everywhere
Cindy Ecksol: thanks rose…
Cindy Ecksol: motion to adjourn?
Jamie Palisades: The latter relating only to harmoinizing some of our rules across a few sims
Wasp Thor: second
Micael Khandr: Sorry, I must leave. Good day to all. Thanks, Cindy.
Rose Springvale: thanks everyone!
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Wasp Thor: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
Sonja Strom: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: one needs a oui oui
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Lilith Ivory: bye All
Cindy Ecksol: thanks all for your patience and courtesy! tough topics today, great discussion
Lilith Ivory: RL is calling my name hehe
Cindy Ecksol: meeting adjourned
Jamie Palisades: Hear hear.
Rose Springvale: smiles
Lilith Ivory: see you
The meeting closed at 11:14 Linden tim

Permalink.

RA Meeting 8 November 2009

RA Meeting 8 Nov 2009: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:05 pm
Cindy Ecksol: everyone please touch the recorder to consent to recording. and please take agenda and other notecards from the urn under the table
Cindy Ecksol: ok, we have a quorum, let’s get started
Jimmie McMahn: Good Morning Chancellor
Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, if it is worse, they’re definitely not aware
Lilith Ivory: lol
Cindy Ecksol: any changes to the agenda?
Wasp Thor: Hello, Micael
Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
Micael Khandr: Hi Wasp
Cindy Ecksol presses her coffee while everyone says hi
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: can I get a motino to approve the agenda?
Carolyn Saarinen: Move to approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
Wasp Thor: I second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Micael Khandr: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Wasp Thor: Aye
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Arria Perreault: aye
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, do you have something to discuss?
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Soro Dagostino: Point of order — any proposals to be in the Agenda should be posted to Legislative Discussions.
Soro Dagostino: In the Forums.
Cindy Ecksol: good point
Jamie Palisades smiles
Soro Dagostino: done
Cindy Ecksol: we have not done that so far in this term, but I see no reason why we should not.
Cindy Ecksol: I will note that all of the proposals being discussed today have been discussed in the forums for at least two weeks
Cindy Ecksol: albeit not in “Legislative Discussion”
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, do you wish to amend today’s agenda on that basis?
Soro Dagostino: It was a Point of Order.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you.
Soro Dagostino: I have made my comment.
Cindy Ecksol: motion on th efloor to approve the agenda: any opposed?
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thank you.
Cindy Ecksol: Next meeting November 22, 0900
Cindy Ecksol: today pip, naftali, and robert have requested 7 day vote
Cindy Ecksol: micael may need to leave, so he has requested 7 day if he misses anything
Sonja Strom: I will not be able to attend the next meeting on the 22nd, and request a 7 day vote for it.
Cindy Ecksol: moving on….
Micael Khandr: Thank you
Cindy Ecksol: reports….Jamie?
Cindy Ecksol notes sonja’s request
Jamie Palisades: Good morning all – ready?
Sonja Strom: yes
Jamie Palisades: OK. Report text here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2606
Cindy Ecksol reminds RA members to use the question queue
Jamie Palisades: Some of the items we will hit in the agenda later today, so I will save those for later.
Jamie Palisades: I will mention a few high points, then ask Rose for her additions, then see if we have questions.
Jamie Palisades: From that linked report: item 1, land price — later in this meeting.
Jamie Palisades: item 2, land sales – they are going on and mosat due to Rose’s hard work we’ve already managed to add some new citizens
Jamie Palisades: More on that in a moment.
Jamie Palisades: Please note, we are using the notice-and-random drawing method disvcussed a few weeks ago. So far, it seems to work fine.,
Jamie Palisades: items 3 and 4, please also note — after the RA solves our price debate today we’ll put the rest on sale at whatever price y’all tell us we can use.
Micael Khandr: Y’all–you in Texas?
Jamie Palisades: Needless to say, there may be some adjustment issues — but that will come up in your agenda item later today.
Carolyn Saarinen: hanging around with Rose!
Jamie Palisades: At times, MIcael but I try to minimize it.
Jamie Palisades: item 5 – regional commissions – please see the post linked form my report.
Jamie Palisades: *frmo
Sonja Strom: Hi Yogeswari!
Jamie Palisades: Oh well, no one cliamed I can type Several of you are, as you know, being put to work during November
Jamie Palisades: this also comes up in the agenda today.
Jamie Palisades: item 6 – Linden “partnership” — we have applied. Per our chat.,
Jamie Palisades: But I still thkn it;s primarily about land moving and adjacent estates.
Jamie Palisades: Like the Blake Sea – SLNE deal.
Jamie Palisades: so we still ought to think about whether THAT is strategically attractive to us.
Jamie Palisades: there are some HUGE issues there
Jamie Palisades: .. attaching to the mainland?
Jamie Palisades: .. attaching to Caledon?
Jamie Palisades: etc etc
Jamie Palisades: so – big issue – but not this week’s. People should start to mull it over, though.
Jamie Palisades: finally
Jamie Palisades: item 7, please note, i just have listed the things that I expoect to bring to the RA between now and the end of term.
Jamie Palisades: (a) do we add a sim?
Jamie Palisades: (b) Do we get rid of the silly citizen-groups law that Gwyn and I have been sneering at for years?
Jamie Palisades: (c) we have another election to survive .. real soon.
Jamie Palisades: and apropos of that
Jamie Palisades: let me just mention for those who do not read group messages
Jamie Palisades: Congratulations to the new dean of the CDS SC, Aliasi Stonebender, selected this week.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooh wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats indeed
Carolyn Saarinen: lawks1
Yogeswari Padar applauds
Cindy Ecksol grouses as she notes spilled coffee
Jamie Palisades: I’d like to suggest that the RA adopt a resolution thanking Claude, the outgoing dean, for his longtime service – both in that capacity and also as LRA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hear hear)
Jamie Palisades: Thanks. Let me defer to os who has somne other – good – details about land activity, and whatever else she might like to mention.
Jamie Palisades: *Rose
Jamie Palisades: sorry
Jamie Palisades: Then we can ask for questions.
Rose Springvale: oh
Rose Springvale: hey
Rose Springvale: i wasn’t prepared, but glad to speak
Rose Springvale: first welcoem to Jmmie, our newest CDS citizen.. nice to see you here Jimmie!
Cindy Ecksol:
Jimmie McMahn: :] Glad to be here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome
Rose Springvale: We’ve added also Lostie86 Sharpshire in AA… who wants to translate our tour into Arabic for us
Cindy Ecksol: nice!
Delia Lake: excellent
Rose Springvale: And as most of you know, amgadsef Anton, who brought his coptic church to the Sacromonte sim
Joaquin Gustav: welcome al
Carolyn Saarinen: nope missed that
Rose Springvale: Thanks to Marino Nuvolari for working with us to move his project to the Almunecar Airspace
Rose Springvale: lol
Sonja Strom: me too
Rose Springvale: Keilia Forager is also finally a citizen of her own right…
Rose Springvale: have i forgotten anyone?
Rose Springvale: lots of movement of citizens within the sims.. which is great to see
Lilith Ivory: Hubby is a real citizen now also
Jamie Palisades grins – right – Cam bought
Rose Springvale: CAm Holiday too!
Rose Springvale: oh yes!
Rose Springvale: sorry chat lag
Rose Springvale: and we hae a few more we’ll close shortly we’lltell you about next time
Jamie Palisades: (Lilith keeps saying she will make an honest man of him .. guess that means citizen )
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Rose Springvale: i think that’s all i have on this issue
Arria Perreault: May I a question?
Cindy Ecksol: yes…ifi rose is finished
Rose Springvale looks at Cindy… idk!
Arria Perreault: thank you! I am a bit lost with numbers now. Would it be possible to have an approximation about the total amount of citizen for example at the end of october
Jamie Palisades: OK, Arria, may we huddle on that in IM and answer a bit later in the meeting please?
Cindy Ecksol: np
Cindy Ecksol: all right….
Cindy Ecksol: IIb is stui’s commerce commission report, but he is having trouble with tp
Cindy Ecksol: so Jamie, if you wouldn’t mind doing the regional commissions status update?
Cindy Ecksol fights with chat lag….
Jamie Palisades: OK. No prob.
Carolyn Saarinen: gravitiational flux between crown and slippers
Sonja Strom: lol
Jamie Palisades: Hah – so GFBCAS replaces PEBKAC?
Jamie Palisades: Ok, for the regional programming —
Cindy Ecksol looks confused….
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2550&p=13930#p13930
Gwyneth Llewelyn *is* confused
Jamie Palisades: We have three themed regions
Carolyn Saarinen: don’t worry Cindy
Jamie Palisades: as yo knoew from the budget, we have money
Jamie Palisades: we have nice people ( mostly in this room) who have agreed to moderate the open chats
Rose Springvale: (tp’s are down for everyone i guess)
Jamie Palisades: so now what we need is meetings
Jamie Palisades: as ytou can see from the post, i would like each of the regiosn to meet during the current calendar month
Cindy Ecksol: wow, seems so ORGANIZED!!! And people assigned to moderate and everything!
Jamie Palisades: those of you — arria, micael, sonja, pip, caro — who have kindly agreed to moderate will call and chair those open meetings, which have loose groundruels as posted, and Rose & I will try to attend each one
Jamie Palisades: *ground rules. Holy moley, the l a a a a g
StuiChicanne Darkstone shouts: HELLO
Jamie Palisades: Wherever Stui is, I bet his tail is twitching in slow motion
Rose Springvale: i think the sim needs to be restarted… been bad for a while
Carolyn Saarinen: everybody be quiet
StuiChicanne Darkstone shouts: I’m in SYRUP !
Callipygian Christensen shouts: he’s in syrup with me!
Jamie Palisades: a are we all, buddy — you just LIKE it more OK, ahem.
Carolyn Saarinen: sssh! they’ll hear us!
Jamie Palisades: Cindy, membe sof the RA, the bottom line on the regional commissions is:
Jamie Palisades: meetings this month with your help.
Jamie Palisades: and I need one more co-moderator for SOnja for the Alpine region
Jamie Palisades: done
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the ghost of Christmas yet to come floats in silently
Cindy Ecksol: hey, that’s pretty bottom-line
Cindy Ecksol: thanks jamie! any questions for jamie on commissions?
Jamie Palisades: (silently my sculpted prim fanny)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha always wondered about that Jamie
Jamie Palisades: a base rumo, not at all tre — Jamie sits down FAST
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Carolyn Saarinen drops soap at Jamies feet
Cindy Ecksol: ok, stui, no wthat you’re here, without objection why don’t you give us your report on Commerce Commission?
[color=Orange] Caribou Coffee whispers: Mmmmm … a nice hot cup of coffee.
**** Here the sim crashed and we resumed the meeting in Al Andalus ****
Connected
Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalu … /62/225/33
Callipygian Christensen shouts: the sea has recalimed it! who forgot to appease the gods???
Callipygian Christensen: morning Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: morning Calli!
Callipygian Christensen: not enough sacrifices made this week methinks
Cindy Ecksol: we”re headed for the library to continue the RA meeting — CN appears to have vanished -)
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: must be true…
Callipygian Christensen: ah..ok..Ill head there..CN was in bad shape when I got there before
Rose Springvale: should be room for the RA at the table
Lilith Ivory: I hate it to get moved somewhere else
Rose Springvale: and i’ll put up benches for spectators
Belladonna Serrta: hello
Belladonna Serrta: is this ur place?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: DAMN SL
Rose Springvale: RA should fit at the table, the rest of us will use benches
Rose Springvale: i can rez as many as we need
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, rose….
Joaquin Gustav: ty rose
Joaquin Gustav: do we need the record machine?
Rose Springvale: need more chairs
Rose Springvale: ?
Wasp Thor: Yay Rose
Rose Springvale: we can take a transcript
Cindy Ecksol: Joa, we’ll just have to make do with chat transcript
Cindy Ecksol: I am recording, would appreciate it someone else would too.
Cindy Ecksol: just in case…
Rose Springvale: i always have a record cindy
Soro Dagostino: Got chat running.
Soro Dagostino: Out of CDS
StuiChicanne Darkstone: anyone want a poppy while you wait ?
Rose Springvale: smiles
Can’t rez object ‘Question Queue V 1.1’ at { 214.628, 162.073, 50.9887 } on parcel ‘El Tesoro Libreria de la Alhambra’ in region Al Garnata because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership.
Carolyn Saarinen: got mine thanks
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I’m just about sitting on Joaquin’s head
StuiChicanne Darkstone: good job I’m a cat
Question Queue V 1.1: *** Question Queue, a Jim Gustafson Product ***
Question Queue V 1.1: If people click on the object, the name will appear in your chat
Question Queue V 1.1: you can get to the next user with /100 next
Question Queue V 1.1: you can reset the queue with /100 reset
Question Queue V 1.1: say /100 rotation on/off to enable/disable rotation
Question Queue V 1.1: say /100 blink on/off to enable/disable blinking
Wasp Thor: I was just about to get the poppy when we crashed
Arria Perreault: the poppy?
Rose Springvale: we are in the process of reconstruction and redesign of this building, for the benefit of anyone who is annoyed (as i am) by the texture flicker lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering about the insane texture flickering…
Wasp Thor: Stui poppy
Rose Springvale: yes, well
Lilith Ivory: lol I just wanted to mention it
Carolyn Saarinen: Looks good anyway frankly
Rose Springvale: its not MY work
Gwyneth Llewelyn complains about the frozen anims too, as always
Lilith Ivory: I thought I would be going to crash again lol
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Cindy Ecksol: let’s see….
Cindy Ecksol: can we come to order again? I think we have a quorum
Cindy Ecksol: (amazingly!)
Guardian Angel v2.0: Guardian Angel v2.0 [script:Detector] Script run-time error
Guardian Angel v2.0: Stack-Heap Collision
Guardian Angel v2.0: Guardian Angel v2.0 [script:Display] Script run-time error
Guardian Angel v2.0: Stack-Heap Collision
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
Rose Springvale: hi Sylvia!
Soro Dagostino: What else would we do on a Sunday Morning in November
Cindy Ecksol: ok, stui — I think you were about to tell us about the commerce commission
Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor — take it!
Cindy Ecksol: stui, you there??
Carolyn Saarinen hits a disco beat for stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m up here
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m floating
Cindy Ecksol: how about a commerce commssion report??
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if the floor disappears
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m ready for it
Cindy Ecksol: we’re all waiting with bated breath….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
StuiChicanne Darkstone: apologies for the broken up report
Cindy Ecksol waves at justice
StuiChicanne Darkstone: strangle a Linden
Carolyn Saarinen: words to live by
Cindy Ecksol: c’mon stui, we’ve got a lot of stuff still to talk about….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok meeting yesterday – attendance good – lots of discussion – transcript on the forums… I ask that everyone be patient with us at the next meeting which is scheduled for 2 weeks time
StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless I am still in paris (could be the week after)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll keep you posted
Cindy Ecksol: done stui?
Cindy Ecksol: any questinos for stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless you want to hear about my hair
Cindy Ecksol: *questions
Rose Springvale: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2604
Rose Springvale: that’s the transcript
StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou Rosy
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was looking for the link *LOL*
Rose Springvale:
Cindy Ecksol: ok….next up is CDS-owned land pricing — jamie’s proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for doing the *resume* of the conclusions at the very stop Very useful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, Cindy)
Cindy Ecksol: everyone have the notecard?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *top
Gwyneth Llewelyn confirms she has the notecard
Cindy Ecksol: jamie is still not back online — rose can you fill in for him?
Rose Springvale: i’ll set out a notecard giver .. he’s back now
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Gwyneth Llewelyn has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just a simple clarification, perhaps it’s a quite obvious one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *request for clarification, that is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under this suggested Land Pricing Act,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: parcels are set for sale *immediately* (for L$0) as soon as the CDS repossesses it, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the spirit of the law, i.e. what is intended by it? Am I corrrect?
StuiChicanne Darkstone gave you Poppy Lapel Pin.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s it)
Jamie Palisades smiles, waves.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wb Jamie, just in time!)
Cindy Ecksol: I just caught jamie up in im — let’s give him a sec to catch his breath
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, of course!!
Jamie Palisades: CN just restarted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yay
Jamie Palisades: it took a bit of doing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, jamie!
Jamie Palisades: let’s stay here though
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and seconds that suggestion
Jamie Palisades: OK< sorry, I herad you are discussing the zero price proposal, but wasn't sure if I am getting questions about it Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, woul dyou like to start by talking about it first? Cindy Ecksol: them we'll take questions? Jamie Palisades: sure but only briefly Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, thatmight clarify my single question about it. Cindy Ecksol: kk Jamie Palisades: 1. CDS has LOLNG had a statutory price Jamie Palisades: *long Jamie Palisades: we sell 'em at the beginning for $X Lindens Jamie Palisades: and then after that Jamie Palisades: the owners sell at whatever price they like Jamie Palisades: but Jamie Palisades: if CDS gets it back Jamie Palisades: WE sell it at the original price Jamie Palisades: and the original prices are, to use a colloquailism, wack Sylvia Tinkel: Jamie Palisades: CN was radically overpriced for exmaple Jamie Palisades: because THEN (years ago) there was pent up demand due to a full-up NFS Jamie Palisades: then the only other sim we had Jamie Palisades: AND the landmarket in SL wasn;t buggered Jamie Palisades: (as it is now) Jamie Palisades: AND other things were different Jamie Palisades: so Jamie Palisades: NOW Carolyn Saarinen: Lemme hear ya say "tahnk you Lindes" Jamie Palisades: large estates all over SL are selling for L$0 Jamie Palisades: Caro Jamie Palisades: because they know that what really matters to their budget Jamie Palisades: is the monthly rent Jamie Palisades: what WE are seeing Jamie Palisades: is more vacancies than usual Carolyn Saarinen: or even "Thank you Lindens" - funnier when one is coherent hmm? Jamie Palisades: and it;s my suggestion that this is because we are comparatively overpriced Jamie Palisades: and I proposed last meetign to solve the problem by an experiment Jamie Palisades: which is to drop purchase price to zero, and collect only tier Jamie Palisades: on repossessed lots Carolyn Saarinen: And what matters to US is also the monthly rent... Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************ Question Queue V 1.1: Sylvia Tinkel has a question Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************ Jamie Palisades: which is, as it happens, exactly what our budget projects. Exactly, Caro. Jamie Palisades: Vacancies could kill us Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************ Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************ Jamie Palisades: even though so far we are doing far better than most Jamie Palisades: (and on that note, go look at how much is for sale in, for example, Azure Islands) Carolyn Saarinen: Cos our sims are gorgeous Jamie Palisades: (not going to mention any of our own citizens' projects ) Jamie Palisades: (but I could) Jamie Palisades: or look at Caledon Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************ Question Queue V 1.1: Gwyneth Llewelyn has a question Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************ Jamie Palisades: Des hides the vacancies Jamie Palisades: but they're all over Jamie Palisades: OK. link to the actual "bill" proposal here: Jamie Palisades: and please note, for the RA's convenience - it is important to say that this plan is NOT the same as Arria's auction idea Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it's theopposite!) Jamie Palisades: in fact, if you pass hers, mine doesn't work., and vice versa Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Cindy Ecksol notes that we'll get to Arria's proposal next.... Soro Dagostino: Move approval Jamie Palisades: right,m just mentoiong that so people see everything on the tabnle Jamie Palisades: link to legislation draft here --> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2592&start=0#p13927
Arria Perreault: I have also understood that yours, Jamie, is provisory, until the end of the term
Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
Cindy Ecksol notes that soro is out of order…questions in the queue
Rose Springvale: lol
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, you first…..
Cindy Ecksol: since we asked you to wait earlier
StuiChicanne Darkstone: !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… right… well, two things then. I had ANOTHER comment, which I will only make when my time in the quaue comes next,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the first question was simple: will the repossessed land be announced for sale L$0 *immediately* after it is repossessed? The proposed bill doesn’t suggest/propose a timeline for doing so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My request for clarification was just that ‚Äî will it be listed for L$0 *as soon as it is repossessd*?
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’ll leave the rest of my comments after my turn comes again in the queue, thanks )
Jamie Palisades: ok. I could answre that but it was Rose’s plan so maybe I will let her speak first if she likes
Rose Springvale: smiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please
Rose Springvale: first
Rose Springvale: remember how we get ‘reposessed land
Rose Springvale: generally its either a) been for sale privately
Rose Springvale: or b) been vacant a while
Rose Springvale: if we offer all cds land in inventory at the beginning of the month, that should handle any pent up desire for the land.. and i’d ask for direction on the price of the land then
Rose Springvale: but the point is to keep it productive, not get windfalls
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* ‚Äî ok, so I’d suggest that gets just slightly amended to include “At the beginning of each month, Any parcel of land that is re-sold by CDS, after CDS repossesses it, will be sold for a purchase price of $0.” (or words to that effect)
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order
Rose Springvale:
Cindy Ecksol: soro?
Cindy Ecksol: we will need a motion for this at the appropriate time…..
Soro Dagostino: Madame chair — there is nothing before the body — you need a motion
Cindy Ecksol: thank you.
Jamie Palisades: so, I wrote a motion as posted. anyone want to move it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We surely don’t need a motion to discuss something that IS on the agenda to be discussed?…
Jamie Palisades: I;m just yer humble nonvoting servant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *did* approve teh agenda, didn’t we?
Cindy Ecksol: no, need a motion to approve and then to amend -)
Soro Dagostino: TY
Cindy Ecksol: would someone like to move jamie’s proposal as stated on the card ?
Arria Perreault: we are on questions and clarification now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Point of order (two can play this game too ). We’re at the discussiong stage!!!!
Jamie Palisades sits back – hey if no one makes a motion thi scan be a much shorter meeting. It;’s a sunny day outside where I am
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, we can move and then discuss in more detail, ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And while discussin, we can certainly make suggestions =)
Soro Dagostino: No discussion is in order — without a motion
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel
Cindy Ecksol: soro, would you like to move jamie’s proposal?
Soro Dagostino: I did
Cindy Ecksol: ok, do we have a second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Come on guys. III b. CDS-owned land pricing (0955-1015) . What’s that? Isn’t it a point to discuss on the agenda? Or just pretty words on a notecard for us to watch and drool?
Sylvia Tinkel: ??
Cindy Ecksol: (please)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second !
Rose Springvale: yay!
Carolyn Saarinen: I’ll second if it moves us on
Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sylvia Tinkel
Jamie Palisades smiles, patiently points to the text of the now seconded-motion here – viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2592&start=0#p13927
Cindy Ecksol: I believe sylvia has th efloor — a question sylvia?
Carolyn Saarinen: but don’t now nr=eed motion to amend?
Sylvia Tinkel: my question was about the motion you just moved on
Jamie Palisades: should I answer Gwyn’s question, or did we eradicate it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Sylvia Tinkel: but i am only a guest
Sylvia Tinkel: I just wanted to point out the flaw which i think concerns Gwyn
Sylvia Tinkel: that to have the land available at zero price invites a problem
Carolyn Saarinen: guests can speak Sylvia
Sylvia Tinkel: anyone can just walk up and get it
Jamie Palisades: (IN short, yes, Gwyn, that’s a perfectly fine clariifcation, and consistent with Rose’s one-a-month-up-or-out sales plan)
Jamie Palisades smiles and pokes queue
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Jamie Palisades has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Sylvia Tinkel: you probably need a bit of social engineering there to stop someone taking over all the land
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Patroklus Murakami has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Sylvia Tinkel: that’s it
Sylvia Tinkel: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks sylvia
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
Cindy Ecksol: Arria?
Carolyn Saarinen: I thought Pat was going to take over all the land
Arria Perreault: I have a comment and a technical question
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead arria
Arria Perreault: my comment: I am not in favour of a price of 0 L$ because it means that what we get has no value. Poeple who get it can abandon it very easely. I think also that CDS offers more than land, but also services and a great environment
Cindy Ecksol: finished arria?
Arria Perreault: Finally we have a team who manages this land. So it cannot not be free. It can be cheap.
Arria Perreault: not yet finished
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Jimmie McMahn has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Arria Perreault: My question: what is repossed land. In the former list, I have seen parcels of the new sim Monastery and newly redesign parcels from the former parcel of the Monastery
Arria Perreault: The sales of all these parcels were dedicated to the financing of Monastery sim
Jamie Palisades raises hand – it’s a question, Ccindy, may I answer it?
Arria Perreault: will be the remainings of the New sim out of the next list?
Arria Perreault: if your proposal is accepted
Arria Perreault: done
Cindy Ecksol: yes, jamie, please….
Arria Perreault: same for AM
Jamie Palisades: To Arria: I think any land that we sell for the FIRST time is outside this bill. So when we set the 3 empty parcels on the monastery for sale, there’s already a price for us to use. (this evening.) If it does not sell for a while, we’ll come back & suggest a price drop and see my answer to Sylvia. … To Sylvia: Good question. We talked about that two weeks ago when this first came up. I have in the draft that’s posted suggested that we collect two months rent up front to mnake vapid speculation a little harder.d
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Jamie Palisades: … Arria, the Monastery sim land right NOW is exactly like when we opened LA — a new one-time sale
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, you had another question or comment?
Jamie Palisades: done
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Cindy Ecksol: (sorry jamie)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the record, I dislike this excessive bureaucracy with your infinite approvals and amendments. I know that some among us love Robert’s Rules. Unfortunately for you guys, we work under http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281 . Please note 2. B. […] “Each item on the agenda shall be allocated a time for debate by the LRA. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 minutes for debate. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation may be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 15 minutes for debate. ” So. With due respect. Let’s drop this nonsense of approving an agenda, having a point on the agenda, and interrupting the discussion with silly motions to approve to discuss something which is under discussion anyway, with apparently the purpose of “moving things on”. The LRA, under OUR rules (and NOT Robert’s Rules which do NOT apply to the RA!), can stop the discussion anyway if the time limit has pass
Sylvia Tinkel: I would still argue you will eventually need a way of “picking” people but that answer satisfies me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ed. And THEN, *after* the discussion, we CAN move to approve a point under discussion, under the provisions of 2. C, which *clearly* defines how we should proceed *after* the discussion period. Please. We happen to have a rather good set of rules for all of this, please don’t continue to invent new rules on the spur of the moment Or, well, propose a change of those rules if you dislike them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And now to the point in question…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a matter of principle,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the CSDF always stood for private property, a free market,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the notion that citizens should have a right to consider their property valuable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e.g. remember the eminent domain issues of the past)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now I perfectly understand that “ideology” sometimes suffers when confronted with the “reality”, e.g., it’s hard to sell land in SL these days.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Going from “valuable” to “zero” seems, to me, too drastical
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Specially because someone might wish to remain in the CDS,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the parcel just next door gets “abandoned”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and suddenly everybody knows it’ll cost just L$0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All of a sudden,
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Wasp Thor has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Gwyneth Llewelyn: your own parcel is worth little
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I’m not saying that we ought to be a community working just for the benefit of enriching citizens with prospective profitable land sales
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Soro Dagostino has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (again, that would be going the other extreme )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also, I’m definitely aware that it’s FAR worse to have a plot EMPTY to yours, which is unsaleable,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: than just having the notion that land has, ultimately, “no value” in the CDS
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Rose Springvale has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, I would like to consider this in more detail. We’re effectively abolishing the “value” of land in the CDS with this bill,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this changes things ‚Äî quite a lot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even with a sunset clause
Jamie Palisades leans back, raises eyebrow, looking for an action item in there somewhere
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, did you have another comment?
Jamie Palisades: heh heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No action, Jamie. Just a request that this be given a little more thought. Are we really wanting to enter a phase of the CDS where land has zero value? The RA can certainly vote on that, if they think this new model benefits the overall citizens more.
Jamie Palisades: me? shy lil me?
Carolyn Saarinen: Nothing on which you have to pay tier is of “no value”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thats all.
Jamie Palisades chuckles,. Election season started? Does the distinguished Senator from the I-am-the-SC-all-by-myself faction still have those “return to democracy” signs handy? … SUBSTANTIVELY, I didn’t hear any *legislative* proposals under all that politics, Gwyn .. except maybe “this is not my idea so let’s not do it”. .. as for me, I raised my hand in queue to answer Sylvia, so nothing further, Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, jamie
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Patroklus Murakami
Jamie Palisades: and Caro, yes, that’s what we figured from an accounting point of view too. A future rental stream = book value.
Cindy Ecksol: Pat, you had a comment?
Patroklus Murakami: thx cindy
Soro Dagostino: ??
Soro Dagostino: Where am I?
Jamie Palisades: Al Andalus
Soro Dagostino: On the Q?
Sylvia Tinkel: isn’t land essentially free in nature anyway?
Cindy Ecksol: (next I think soro)
Patroklus Murakami: first of all, can i say how disappointed i am by the political response from our esteemed chancellor
Carolyn Saarinen: I’m coming over as a real partisan here and I’m sort of in the middle actually;/
Jamie Palisades: Soro, there’s text floating by the big blue “?”
Patroklus Murakami: which failed to answer any of the key points of the question put
Patroklus Murakami: it’s funny to be on the left and defending the value of property but, hey ho, this is SL!
Patroklus Murakami: i understand how this makes sense from the Government’s perspective, but what of the citizens? if the govnt sells land for nothing it devalues all our land. now, my holdings are pretty modest, just a small lot in NFS. But when i had more I was able to get back some of my investment when i came to sell it. now that will be impossible because the govnt will be giving it away. so, will the govnt compensate current land owners for their loss?
Jamie Palisades: (I looked for questions, in there, I swear, Pat = can you restate them so I can find’ em?)
Patroklus Murakami: there is a problem with going from ‘expensive’ to ‘free’ all of a sudden and an impact on current landowners
Carolyn Saarinen: CDS policy doesn’t dictate land value, the market under LL policy does that.
Patroklus Murakami: so my questions are: have you thought about that? what is your response? will there be compensation. thank you
Cindy Ecksol: jamie? aersponse?
Cindy Ecksol: anyone home?
Rose Springvale: lol
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jimmie McMahn
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Cindy Ecksol: Yikes, I was reading the queue upside down…..
Carolyn Saarinen:
Rose Springvale: maybe take all the questions and then get a response
Cindy Ecksol: Jimmie….did you have a question?
Jimmie McMahn: For times sake I will keep my comment short..
Cindy Ecksol: (then arria, wasp, soro, rose
Jimmie McMahn: I understand why Jamie wants to set land price at 0L..but I fear that will open the door to an abundance of problems
Jimmie McMahn: I would reccomend lowering purchase prices..but I fear 0L would be to drastic
Cindy Ecksol: (please say “thank you” or “done” when ou are finished)
Jimmie McMahn: thank you
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
Cindy Ecksol: arria?
Patroklus Murakami apologises for spamming the chat channel!
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Wasp Thor
Carolyn Saarinen throws a paper plane at Arrria
Cindy Ecksol: ok, running short on time….
Cindy Ecksol: wasp, you had a comment?
Wasp Thor: With all due respect to our feelings…..Linden Labs is printing millions on the money exchange to stay in business…the reality is that they can not sell land..How can we?…..Thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Arria is typing, please be patient)
Arria Perreault: first Jamie did not answer totally my question. The three remaining parcels were quickly blocked to the sale in JUly. I have paid the fees until october without the chance to see them sold. And a remark: we will become renters with this policy of 0 L$ price. Poeple will stay less time by us. It will be complicate to manage
Cindy Ecksol: ok, waiting for arria….
Carolyn Saarinen: sorry ;(
Arria Perreault: especially with our political agenda. We need long-term citizen.
Arria Perreault: done
Cindy Ecksol: than you.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Cindy Ecksol: soro?
Cindy Ecksol: (worry to make you wait so long)
Soro Dagostino: Yield to Rose
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Rose Springvale: thanks
Rose Springvale: bear with me while i cut and paste
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Sylvia Tinkel has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Rose Springvale: i’ve said it many times… i’ll repeat it. The true value in CDS is in the community and while our land is beautiful, so are many other sims. In this proposal, we have not said that CDS land has 0 value, but we can all agree that some land is always going to be more desirable that other parcels.
Rose Springvale: There is no change to private sales. (If citizens fear that their neighbors land will end up in the 0L slush pile, they should work to find buyers and maintain the value.) We are talking about land that is in inventory, and has been in inventory, and that we’ve “shown” many many times. About 15 parcels. Without exception, we get told… espcially in Colonia nova… wow.. that is just too high.
Rose Springvale: And comparing even to our own sims, it is!
COST of sims in SL 1.55/m 6.67/p
Tier: .0197 .00454
CDS
Cost 6.96/m-17.68/m 38.49/p-77.78/p
tier .77/m‚Äì3.13/m 17.7/p-13.8/p
AA cost 9.67/m(original #’s, not used since) 42.31/p tier
Rose Springvale: take a moment to look at the numbers… and remember.. we have already been paid back for all land
Rose Springvale: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sylvia Tinkel
Rose Springvale: 2.33/m
10.18/p(AA tier numbers)
Soro Dagostino: Yield to Sylvia
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Sonja Strom has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Cindy Ecksol: sylvia? then sonja and then I’m going to ask for a motion to approve
Patroklus Murakami: what is /m and /p? per metre squared mainland and private?
Sylvia Tinkel: I just have a counter-point to Aria’s thing about the value being zero, becoming renters, and the political agenda
Rose Springvale: per meter and per prim
Sylvia Tinkel: (devil’s advocate)
Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
Rose Springvale: no. all in our sims
Sylvia Tinkel: the land being zero can be advertised as a *good* thing
Sylvia Tinkel: land is free in the CDS sort of thing
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Gwyneth Llewelyn has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Sylvia Tinkel: and I think it makes assumptions about commitment based on ownership that aren’t necessarily true
Sylvia Tinkel: lastly i think Pat is right about compensation for current owners
Sylvia Tinkel: done
Sylvia Tinkel: * the need for compensation
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Sylvia Tinkel: done
Cindy Ecksol: sonja?
Sylvia Tinkel:
Sonja Strom: Several people have expressed to me that they don’t know exactly what land is for sale in the CDS,
Sonja Strom: and are not sure how to find out without asking other people.
Sonja Strom: Is all the land that is for sale showing up in one public place? Like for example as yellow areas on the SL map?
Sonja Strom: Thanks
Soro Dagostino: Call the Question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Cindy Ecksol: one moment, soro…
Cindy Ecksol: jamie or rose, can you answer Sonja please?
Rose Springvale: yields to jamie
Rose Springvale: hmmm
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: okay
You decline Guthries Folk Club, Kissena Park (29, 189, 21) from A group member named Dottie Iceberg.
Rose Springvale: the previous RA approved a land sales act that would allow us to turn off the yellow map sales
Rose Springvale: we have spent many hours getting that put together.
Rose Springvale: in the meantime
Rose Springvale: all inquiries for land have been forwarded to the exec staff
Rose Springvale: and we have handled them
Rose Springvale: now
Rose Springvale: sonja, if you have not been forwarding inquiries, i can’t fix that
Rose Springvale: but
Rose Springvale: as you all recall
Rose Springvale: the summer brought our land process to a halt
Rose Springvale: because of conflict which accused us of favoritism
Rose Springvale: so we came up with this plan. No, all cds land is not set for yellow map sale
Rose Springvale: we were under the impression that the RA did not want to have our sims look like a “fire sale”
Rose Springvale: and that is why they appoved the change
Rose Springvale: but
Rose Springvale: as you can see
Rose Springvale: we have many new citizens in the term…
Rose Springvale: so hopefully we are meeting theire needs. And
Rose Springvale: there is always some land “yellow mapped”
Rose Springvale: also, we want to make sure that buyesr understand
Rose Springvale: that cds isn’t .. just prettier mainland
Rose Springvale: so we want to have a personal contact
Rose Springvale: done
Sonja Strom: I don’t want anybody to be left with the impression I have not forwarded inquiries. I have always done whatever I could to help anybody who asked me for help.
Sonja Strom: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, rose, sonja
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Cindy Ecksol: we have a motion on the floor — jamie’s original proposal.
Cindy Ecksol: and we are out of time.
Jamie Palisades listens, nods
Cindy Ecksol: and I think that there are many who are still not comfortable with voting “for” OR “against” the proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to extend the meeting OR postpone
Rose Springvale: sighhh
Cindy Ecksol: what I’d like to suggest is that we table this discussion and resume nxt meeting
Jamie Palisades kof kofs Jamie Palisades:
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that, if everybody is unwilling to continue discussing it now
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can’t we for once try something new ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suggest it, Stui
Cindy Ecksol: well, I need SOME kind of a motion…and second
StuiChicanne Darkstone: are we incapable of taking risks ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: at this time
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is the best time to try something new
Arria Perreault: we need time to think ….
Cindy Ecksol: either to approve the motion on the floor or to postpone or to extend todays’ meeting
Jamie Palisades: Stui: the executive? No. The RA – well, you tell me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s move to postpone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: when the economic slump is stagnating the SL economy
Rose Springvale: wasn’t the question called?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *let *ME
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Cindy Ecksol is totally confused….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we would be fools not to try something new and different
Arria Perreault: I second Gwyn’s proposition to postpone
Jamie Palisades: yah, can you guys vote on the postponement?
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel……
Cindy Ecksol: thank you arria.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a motion and a second to postpone
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor to postpone?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Arria Perreault: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: nay
Soro Dagostino: If your asking for the nays?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Cindy Ecksol: all opposed?
Soro Dagostino: Nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t wish to postpone
Jamie Palisades: /so you got 4 to 2 and whoever didn’t vote
Cindy Ecksol: four in favor, two opposed, motion carries
Jamie Palisades: wasp, cindy don;t vote?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Wasp is typing
Jamie Palisades grins, shrugs, raises hand for when this is over
Wasp Thor: Aye if it helps
Cindy Ecksol: sorry…I vote Aye
Carolyn Saarinen: I’d like a decision too Stui but we ain’t gonna get one today
Rose Springvale: sigh
Cindy Ecksol: that makes 5.
Rose Springvale: okay. well.
Cindy Ecksol: two opposed….wasp?
Wasp Thor: I voted Aye a moment ago
Rose Springvale: to postponing?
Cindy Ecksol: thanks!
Cindy Ecksol: ok…..
Cindy Ecksol: meeting SUSPENDED….we will continue with same agenda next time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 6 December 2009

RA Meeting 6 December 2009: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:00 am
Micael Khandr: Hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi Justice
Cindy Ecksol: hi arria, justice
Justice Soothsayer: Hi all
Micael Khandr: Hi Justice
Cindy Ecksol: and gwyn too
Micael Khandr: Hi Gwyn
Arria Perreault: Hi Pat
Patroklus Murakami: howdy all
Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
Micael Khandr: Hi Pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all!
Cindy Ecksol: please touch the recorder to consent to recording. and the urn under the table contains agenda, etc.
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: “amphora”
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory: Hi there
Cindy Ecksol: hey, lil!
Micael Khandr: Hi Lillith
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi ))
Pip Torok: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb :9
Pip Torok: hi Gwyn, arria
Lilith Ivory: anybody want me to rez my “grid crash protection box”?
Jamie Palisades: haha
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Jamie Palisades: hullo all
Cindy Ecksol: is it guaranteed?
Soro Dagostino: Hello all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
Lilith Ivory: hm think it might be a Linden item, so….
Jamie Palisades: actually, when used as instructed, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonderd how THAT works…
Cindy Ecksol: maybe we can get Gwyn to get it certified by the lindens….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
Pip Torok: hi lilith, jamie, soro pat
Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory: cute hat Jamie
Jamie Palisades grins, waves
Jamie Palisades: well, not exactly a hat
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Cindy Ecksol: ok, recorder is on, so please touch to indicate consent to record
Arria Perreault: Hi Soro
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: more of a ‘fascinator’
Lilith Ivory: do you know what wearing antlers means in Germany?
Cindy Ecksol: and agenda, etc. is in the amphora as usual
Cindy Ecksol wait to hear the answer to this one….
Pip Torok: no Lilith, tell us
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Lilith Ivory: it means you should watch careful what your wife is doing when you are not at home
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Lilith Ivory: she might be untrue
Cindy Ecksol: whoo hoo!!!!!
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Pip Torok: oh …
Cindy Ecksol: same here, actually — idomatic
Jamie Palisades smiles. “Wearing horns”, yes
Soro Dagostino: Hello Pip
Lilith Ivory: ah I see
Patroklus Murakami: o.k.
Jamie Palisades: but those do not have holiday lights
Carolyn Saarinen: Cuckold
Cindy Ecksol whistles the fiddle tune “Who’s been here since I’ve been gone?”
Lilith Ivory: lol no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (in Portugal, we don’t have many antler-bearing animals, so we use horns too )
Jamie Palisades: .. well unles your spouse is sleeping with Santa
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Lilith Ivory: hehehe
Cindy Ecksol whistles “I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus”
Lilith Ivory giggles
Pip Torok: must be sons/daughters of Santa around!
Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
Micael Khandr: Hi Stui
Pip Torok: hi Stui!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening All !
Cindy Ecksol: hey, stui!
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
Jamie Palisades: Isn’t that a club, pip?
Cindy Ecksol: find an interesting perch and indicate consent, please
Jamie Palisades: no wait
Pip Torok: hi Calli, Keila
Jamie Palisades: that’s the Illegitimate Daughters of ELVIS, never mind
Jamie Palisades: dd 16
Keila Forager: Hi Pip
Jamie Palisades: dd 0
Jamie Palisades: dd 24
Jamie Palisades: dd 16
Jamie Palisades: dd 32
Jamie Palisades: dd 64
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Jamie Palisades: dd 96
Jamie Palisades: dd 128
Jamie Palisades: dd 200
Jamie Palisades: dd 256
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie loves to spam us
Jamie Palisades: dd 300
Cindy Ecksol: yikes, jamie is counting!!!
Jamie Palisades: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Micael Khandr: I didn’t know we had that many dds
Jamie Palisades: bad script setting
Callipygian Christensen: hi Pip, everyone
Cindy Ecksol: ok, I think we have a quorum, let’s get started.
Arria Perreault: Hi Keila
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t even know what a dd is
Keila Forager: Hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi Callipygian
StuiChicanne Darkstone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maNKmEjCFyU
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Ms LRA ? I’ll hush now if we’re in session
Cindy Ecksol: everyone have the agenda? any changes?
Pip Torok: not me …
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I have a Christmas song for the agenda
StuiChicanne Darkstone: to set the mood
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: any opposed to Stui starting us off with a song?
Micael Khandr: Does it matter?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: definitely not
StuiChicanne Darkstone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maNKmEjCFyU
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I’m definitely not opposed…
Cindy Ecksol: aw, I thought YOU were going to sing, stui!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Santa! (I mean Justice!)
Justice Soothsayer: Ho.
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: my voice wouldn’t be very jolly
Cindy Ecksol: all right, can I get a motion to approve the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to approve the agenda.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I found Cindy a Song too
Carolyn Saarinen: seconded
Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
Pip Torok: copy of agenda someone?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: to play on her autoharp
StuiChicanne Darkstone: in the urn
Cindy Ecksol: in the amphora pip…
Pip Torok: tks
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the ashes of Scrooge
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m in favour
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
Arria Perreault: aye
Micael Khandr: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok, great.
Cindy Ecksol: next meeting: 20 december
Cindy Ecksol: question is what time we should plan
Cindy Ecksol: we changed this meeting because ther eare some who can never make the 9am time
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I might be en route to my stable by then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s her suggestions! I’m very likely able to be around from 6 AM SLT upwards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *hear
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am sure I’m working next sunday
Cindy Ecksol: no, that’s two sundays from now stui
Pip Torok: noon SLT suits me fine
StuiChicanne Darkstone: removing the dust attractions
Soro Dagostino: Not a good time for me.
Cindy Ecksol: I am available either at 9 or noon
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know I’m working some sunday to take down garlands and sequins and baubles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, me too.
Micael Khandr: Me too–9 or noon
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and to hide Christmas trees
Lilith Ivory giggles
Cindy Ecksol: that would be maybe after christmas, stui?
Cindy Ecksol: unless you’re planning to be scrooge?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: no
StuiChicanne Darkstone: before
StuiChicanne Darkstone: once they have made their money
Micael Khandr: anal-compulsive?
Arria Perreault: 9 PM is ok
StuiChicanne Darkstone: they want the trees and the rest to go away
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Cindy Ecksol: no, arria…9am…not pm
Cindy Ecksol: 9am or 12pm
Cindy Ecksol: or something in between
Soro Dagostino: 9am is my preference.
Micael Khandr: 10:30?
Arria Perreault: 9 am or 12pm are both ok for me
Cindy Ecksol: soro, does that work for you?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m ok with 10:30 AM SLT too.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and apparently the kids nativity costume market in England is now worth up to ¬£150 per costume *LOL*
Soro Dagostino: (am please
Pip Torok: either works for me
Soro Dagostino: 9*
Micael Khandr: Go for 9
Jamie Palisades: (for a bedsheet and sandals, Stui? I am in the wrong business then)
Cindy Ecksol: ok, sounds like 9am.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll try to be at the meeting
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I may be at ye olde hole of poop
Micael Khandr: poop?
Cindy Ecksol: I believe Rob has problems with that time which is why he hasn’t been here much, but seems like the rest of us are ok with that.
Cindy Ecksol: so next meeting 20 Dec at 9am
Soro Dagostino: Yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Lilith Ivory: Hi Rose
Cindy Ecksol: 7 day votes today: naftali and sonja
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s not polite to say the hit and miss at RA
Pip Torok: hi Rose
Rose Springvale: hi all
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy !
Keila Forager: Hi Rose
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Don’t forget to tap my seat
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Pip Torok: 7-day vote Naftali
Cindy Ecksol: moving on….jamie, you have a report for us?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: agendas are in the urn with scrooge
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the Christmas Spirit
notetaker 2.0.1: Jamie Palisades has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Lilith Ivory has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Micael Khandr has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Pip Torok has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Keila Forager has not indicated consent yet.
Jamie Palisades: I do, smile
notetaker 2.0.1: Tor Karlsvalt has not indicated consent yet.
Cindy Ecksol: (and please touch the recorder if you have not yet)
notetaker 2.0.1: Callipygian Christensen has not indicated consent yet.
notetaker 2.0.1: Check completed.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: (my seat)
notetaker 2.0.1: notetaker 2.0.1 [script:notetaker 2.0.1] Script run-time error
notetaker 2.0.1: Stack-Heap Collision
Jamie Palisades: ok
Jamie Palisades: right, chancellor’s report
Jamie Palisades: 1. Fun events today – please stick arouind after RA, for the DJ on the Neuifreistadt Platz and the kickoff of ski season. See “Eose’s group announcement, and generally, the DS Calendar (see kiosks) and Events Forum board here: viewforum.php?f=5 More planned for the winter holidays.
Jamie Palisades: 2. It’s snowing Please fix your trees. There is a more complex weather plan for Al Andalus sims. I will ask Rose to talk about that in a moment.
Jamie Palisades: 3. I had this idea about a constitutional amendment We’ll possibly talk about that later today.
Jamie Palisades chuckles
Jamie Palisades: 4. We should have an update on implementations, or feasibility, on the various recommendation sof the regional cultural commissions, within the next week. Also on the “Events” board.
Jamie Palisades: 5. The four chief open commercial parcels of land in Colonia Nova have been listed for bid, per our laws. See viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2634 I will keep you posted on the outcomes.
Jamie Palisades: .. There’s a two week period for bidders to make themselves known for the 6-months-of-half-price-rent deal.
Jamie Palisades: 6. Also on land, most other open parcels in CDS owned by the government are open for claiming at L$0, but at full-price rent, as posted and group-notified by Rose. As the cooks say, come ‘n get it.
Jamie Palisades: …
Jamie Palisades: I have a few other “consultation” items
Jamie Palisades: which are in the forum of open questions to the group
Jamie Palisades: but that’s it for declaratie stuff. so lety me let ose add anything she has — including but maybe not only on the AA weather concept
Rose Springvale: Thanks Jamie
Jamie Palisades: *rose, sorry typo as always
Rose Springvale: I’m sorry that things are not farther along than they are for the holidays…
Rose Springvale: Al Andalus has not had snow yet, as there was some disagreement on whether it SHOULD snow
Rose Springvale: we’ve done some research and determined that in RL granada, indeed there is snow, albeit brief
Micael Khandr: I moved there for the warmth . . .
Rose Springvale: so we will try to follow the rl model and have a shortened period of winter weather, closer to the christmans/new year holidays
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Marino said today
Rose Springvale: he’s in barcelona though
Micael Khandr: [Does Palm Springs exist in SL?] Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Question Queue V 1.1: Arria Perreault has a question
Question Queue V 1.1: ************************************************
Rose Springvale: If the roman sims cultural commission meets, it would be nice to have some help bringing them into the spirit…
Rose Springvale: specifically we’ve turned in a saturnalia event to Winter fair, would love help making it happen
Rose Springvale: other than that, i think its in the notices?
Arria Perreault: I have got already some inputs. We try to meet soon.
Jamie Palisades: i think so
Rose Springvale: remember you need to notice it out 1 week Arria
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Arria Perreault
Jamie Palisades: Arria (and Pip), if we can help, let us know please.
Pip Torok: thanks Jamie
Arria Perreault: yes
Jamie Palisades: (and I will have a few more short items after Qs)
Cindy Ecksol: questions for jamie?
Arria Perreault: I have
Cindy Ecksol: arria, you have the floor
Arria Perreault: about land sale action
Arria Perreault: first, I have noticed that the last available parcel of the Monastery sim is in the list. This is new land. Should it be out of the list?
Rose Springvale: arria
Rose Springvale: it is listed as such, no discount
Jamie Palisades: hmmmm – i think it;s for sale at the old price, not the zero price, no?
Rose Springvale: if you read the text
Jamie Palisades: which is as we all disvcused a few meetings ago
Arria Perreault: Second, will this action have an interference with the citizen census of the 12 december?
Jamie Palisades: still, a good thing for advertising to mention it.
Jamie Palisades: Sorry, on that second one? How so?
Arria Perreault: yes, new land should be sold at normal price
Jamie Palisades: ok, we agree on #1 then. On #2 ..
Jamie Palisades: are you asking how new landowners will be counted as voters?
Arria Perreault: Nobody can get one of this land before the 12 december?
Jamie Palisades: :/ well
Rose Springvale: what is december 12?
Jamie Palisades: let’s see is that the 28-days-before-the election datye?
Arria Perreault: the date of the census
Jamie Palisades: (the day by which one must be a citizen to vote)
Jamie Palisades: Arria, assuming that it is (which sounds right but I have not checked the calendar) …
Jamie Palisades: (and that’s for the SC to tell us)
Jamie Palisades: .. then not really. For 3 reasons
Arria Perreault: it has influence on the number of the seats at the RA and the eligible factions, if the Constitution is not modified until that date
Jamie Palisades: (a) COMMERC IAL land is only available after the 19th
Jamie Palisades: (b) any PRIVATE sales can hapen at any time, and our PUBLIC sales are constaineed by our rules, which require some notice period
Jamie Palisades: and most importantly
Jamie Palisades: (c) Our rule on voting allows a thousanbd rediculous loopholes for group membership
Jamie Palisades: so anyone who tried to sneka in woudl easier do so, land or no land
Jamie Palisades: done Rose, did I miss anything?
Jamie Palisades: *sneak
Rose Springvale: i don’t think so
Arria Perreault: (c) Our rule on voting allows a thousanbd rediculous loopholes for group membership: can you explane better?
Jamie Palisades smiles
Jamie Palisades: The law lets people become CDS citizens by joining a group when the group owns CDS land
Jamie Palisades: I think that is a bad law
Jamie Palisades: too easy to abuse
Jamie Palisades: but it is out law, and like most of them, predates me ask an oldtimer
Arria Perreault: I though it was not paossible
Arria Perreault: possible*
Jamie Palisades: anyone else? CIndy, I may not be up to the task of justifying an ancient and absurd rule
Arria Perreault: does it means that all members of the coptic church are citizen and not only the landowner?
Jamie Palisades smiles. Ask the SC
Arria Perreault: (just ann example)
Jamie Palisades: But i *thikn* they woudl need to CLAIM to be, and tell us, at a minimum, and be in the same group
Jamie Palisades smiles
Jamie Palisades: Maybe I should mention our friend Kamiliah?
Rose Springvale: maybe
Rose Springvale:
Patroklus Murakami: i could explain some of the motivation for that law and it’s implications if you like. (i hate it myself btw)
Jamie Palisades: Let me wait for Pat
Jamie Palisades: Suffice to say
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead pat
Jamie Palisades: Caledon’s thousand-member group also has a member who owns CDS land
Rose Springvale: in the group name
Patroklus Murakami: well, it was well meaning the idea was to provide a way for couples and groups to own land and still have citizenship
Patroklus Murakami: some thought it was unfair that couples had to each own land separately to be citizens
Jamie Palisades: I suppose I should make a disclosure
Cindy Ecksol smiles when thinking how Des wold love to know that he’s just conquered CDS once and for all
Jamie Palisades: I’ll wait my turn though
StuiChicanne Darkstone: then it could in theory be limited to couples
StuiChicanne Darkstone: surely
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Patroklus Murakami: so the law says you can be a citizen by owning land as a member of a group *but only if you owned land as an individual first*
Arria Perreault: about what is based the census?
Micael Khandr: Don’t call me shirley . . .
Patroklus Murakami: so the members of a group don’t all get a vote
Patroklus Murakami: they need to have been individual land owners first
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but Micael it suits you
Cindy Ecksol: finished pat?
Cindy Ecksol: thx
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn? I think you’re next
Jamie Palisades waits for queue
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Pat pretty much clarified the important point: people have to be citizens first, *then* join a group which owns land, and *afterwards* sell the land that allowed them to become citizens in the first place.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no, sorry, but Caledon doesn’t own us yet
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Rose Springvale: they bought from the beginning
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not quite finoshed
Cindy Ecksol: whoops, sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so perhaps iot is NOT clear, Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All 1000 citizens of Caledon,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would have to buy an individual plot *each*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we don’t have so many plots
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so they would have to queue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since it takes 28 days before you’re a voting citizen,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can do some maths to see how long it would take for them all to keep citizen status, even after leaving the original land they’d boughht
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree there is a loophole there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that the law is a bit naive
Jamie Palisades smiles –
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it’s not THAT bad as you make it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all… thanks.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Jamie Palisades: My little disclosure
Jamie Palisades: It’s relevant now, was not earlier
Jamie Palisades: when AA and CDS merged
Jamie Palisades: I did in fact in my official capacity
Jamie Palisades: get asked
Jamie Palisades: well, requested really
Jamie Palisades: that all 1321 residents of caledon
Jamie Palisades: that is, the grouop membership
Jamie Palisades: be added to our rolls
Jamie Palisades: by a then resident
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jamie Palisades: i, ah, declined.
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Arria Perreault:
Jamie Palisades smiles. That’s it, for that item. I have a few more shorter ones.
Cindy Ecksol: rose, are you on this item still?
Rose Springvale: yes
Cindy Ecksol: ok, jamie….let’s get rose first then you can finish
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Rose Springvale: just to point out that 1) there is a sq m requirement of 128 m per voting citizen
Rose Springvale: and 2
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Rose Springvale: that the law has been used by selling citizens who are no longer in volved in CDS to stay “in” the voting roles.
Rose Springvale: it operates to inflate CDS as much as anyplace else
Rose Springvale: and finally, as the party today was scheduled before this meeting, i’m sorry but i’m going to have to go
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: so if you need anything more from me…
Jamie Palisades: Rose refers to our 1 pm Plats snow party
Jamie Palisades: and thanks vm, Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Rose
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks rose.
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Arria Perreault: is there any role of this citizen who don’t have land anymore?
Jamie Palisades: back to the consultation items then
Jamie Palisades: Four items I wish to pose to you that really are aesthetic in character. Let me ask you, and the community, now, and we’ll see what kind of opinions roll in, There probably are no “right” answers in matters of decoration & taste.
Jamie Palisades: On all of them, NOT asking for an answer this minute, but could people think it over?
Pip Torok: back
Arria Perreault: Our aim is to get new citizen. It means that we have to make a difference between sales to citizen and to non-citizen.
Arria Perreault: Potential citizen can buy at any time. Citizen have special moments. In my proposal, it is every 6 months. This can be discussed.
Arria Perreault: In order to get new citizen, we have to improve advertising and marketing. In SL, but also outside SL.
Arria Perreault: Internet is also an important place to advertise
Arria Perreault: SL itself has some tools too for advertising and sales
Arria Perreault: As method, I have proposed auction. I don’t think that we will win a lot of money. But it is easy and transparent.
Arria Perreault: In my proposal, it is possible to take in account development projects.
Arria Perreault: I think that it is important to have some thoughts about urbanism in our land management.
Arria Perreault: This can evolve. See what happened in Colonia Nova, where we have redesigned the parcels.
Arria Perreault: I am done with my introduction.
Arria Perreault: (the text is in the amphore)
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Cindy Ecksol: whoops….befor jamie….
Jamie Palisades: right
Cindy Ecksol: I believe we need a second to Arria’s motion to discuss
Jamie Palisades: I think i’d said this a few meetings ago, so will try to summarize very tightly. It’s unforuntate that this proposal came to the RA tabnle right after another inconsistent one (te :L$0 plan), but it did, and you passed that one. As a several-month exdperiment.
Cindy Ecksol: (sorry jamie)
Jamie Palisades: oop, OK. on hold
Cindy Ecksol: do I hear a second for Arria’s proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds it.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn.
Cindy Ecksol: ok, jamie, you have the floor
Jamie Palisades: Anyway,I’d suggest you let experiment #1 run before trying experiment #2. and:
Jamie Palisades: on its merits:
Jamie Palisades: We also spoke briefly in November about the feasibility and policy problems with auctions that I see — and here i must respectfully disagree with Arria —
Jamie Palisades: those of us who do the work believe that they are more effort to run;
Jamie Palisades: and they make maximixing the cost of land our goal — which does not sound like CDS to me. Done, thanks.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Pip Torok
Cindy Ecksol: pip?
Pip Torok: how crucial is the question of auction/non-auction to your proposal, Arria?
Arria Perreault: it is not totally crucial. I consider that we have to think about the method
Pip Torok: thank you Arria
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
Cindy Ecksol: stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Auctions are good for the rich but limit opportunity for new poorer prospective citizens, I voted in favour of the $0L sale as I feel it promotes growth and opportunity to become landed, I don’t see how the auction would support these principles
Arria Perreault: well … auction can bring high prices only when the competition is big
Arria Perreault: it is not our case currently
Arria Perreault: LL uses auction
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else? comments? questions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it would actually be very fortunate if two plots, which fail to sell for “next to nothing”, would suddenly come up in an auction that would have tons of eager bidders ) If I understand the situation right now, this is hardly going to happen all the time)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: then what benefit can there be in it ? if it doesn’t deliver a high price then it seems rather redundant to have an auction that delivers little revenue
Arria Perreault: in rl too, states sell abandonned land wit the auction method
Pip Torok agrees with Stui
Arria Perreault: and people can usually get with a small price
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more the principle of replacing “random pick” by “auction”, Stui. So that in the very rare eventuality that two or three people want the same plot to grow their existing parcels aren’t left to random chance…
Micael Khandr: Doesn’t Jamie’s point about the experiment we already supported mean we need to wait to look at Arria’s proposal until after that?
Arria Perreault: the method is easy and transparent
Jamie Palisades: (It might to the majority who voted for it. MK)
Pip Torok: … and divisive imho …
Cindy Ecksol: well, arria, sometimes municipalities essentially give land away to a “good purpose” too. so wht we are doing is not unprecedented.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I take the position that the poorer citizen can be more productive to the life of the sim than the richer
Arria Perreault: Jamie, do you have a report about the first sale? how many sold parcels? how drawings?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and so the real auction would be in their involvement not their payments
Micael Khandr: I agree with Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but then there is no way to give credit for involvement
Jamie Palisades: NO, wasn;t asked for it ARria. AS IO recall informally there were little or no cases where two people wanted one
Soro Dagostino: I do too.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: so are we to become a snobbish organisation that allows only the rich to join in
Jamie Palisades: (remember, this is not the choice land – this is the abandoned land)
Pip Torok: but it cd always happen one day Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and for the poor to be on the periphery
StuiChicanne Darkstone: or should be lean towards a meritocracy
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and assist people to join our ranks as much as we can in our limited capacity ?
Cindy Ecksol wonders whether a meritocracy is less “snobbish” than an “aristocracy”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s not get too excited about the “poor people” in the CDS who have, after all, a computer able to run SL and broadband access
Arria Perreault: yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: a computer once bought is not an ongoing cost
Jamie Palisades: I’m sure LL agrees Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know they do, Jamie
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and broadband is a requirement of modern life
StuiChicanne Darkstone: having Linden $ is not
StuiChicanne Darkstone: that is a luxury
Micael Khandr: Again, strongly agree with Stui on this.
Jamie Palisades chuckles. Eat the Poor, yes – and freebies too
Arria Perreault: I can only imagine competition for some special parcels
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and one not afforded to all
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I for one am not exactly untouched by the crisis
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Stui, your argument still stands ? of course people that have an insane amount of money free to spend would have a huge advantage on an auction where, by chance, two citizens want the same plot
Arria Perreault: I think it is possible to make projects in CDS without money
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it was not apparent
Pip Torok tends to get “excited” about the poor FWIW …
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the cost of living rises rather more than the basic wage of the average worker
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and at Christmas
Arria Perreault: auction is only one of the posible methods and I think we should evaluate them, maybe on the basis of a report about the current experiment
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think it is within our scope to appreciate the poor rather more than we do
Arria Perreault: for me, the question of the difference between citizen and non-citizen as potential owner is much more important
Arria Perreault: as well as advertising and marketing
StuiChicanne Darkstone: as we may progress past them with our shopping bags and ignore the homeless man because he ruins our dream of prosperous aquisitive and materialistic heaven
Cindy Ecksol: ***TWO MINUTES LEFT IN DISCUSSION TIME ***
Arria Perreault: look our portal: http://portal.slcds.info/
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Greed is rather the enemy of society
Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: not it’s creator
Arria Perreault: the new sim doesnt have a page
Micael Khandr: Amen, brother Stui!
Arria Perreault: this is an improtant point
Arria Perreault: not only auction
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I for one would never support an auction
Jamie Palisades smiles. Happy to discuss when that’s what’s on the agenda. Sorry, but what is that timer for?
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel
Soro Dagostino: Call the Question
Cindy Ecksol: ok, we’re out of the 20 minutes allocate d for this.
Arria Perreault: Stui, there are other points in this text
Cindy Ecksol: soro has moved to vote on the question
Cindy Ecksol: is there a second?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well then I may consider them
Cindy Ecksol: (to close discussion)
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: thank you micael
StuiChicanne Darkstone: when rearranged to a more suitable format
Cindy Ecksol: discussion is now closed
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but when coupled with auction it’s never gonna work for me
Cindy Ecksol waves to get stui’s attention!
Arria Perreault: can I propose an alternative?
Cindy Ecksol: wait, arria…need to vote on this first.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: sorry Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of arria’s proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn just points out one point on Arria’s proposal: “If no one is interested by the same parcel, the citizen can purchase it.” And sorry for being out of order. So, the auction is just to replace the “random picking” when TWO or more citizens wish the same plot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I get rather passionate when someone oversimplifies poverty for want of understanding the issue
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Arria Perreault: aye
Jamie Palisades: (ahem, voting)
Micael Khandr: Nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: NAY
Cindy Ecksol waits for other “Ayes”
Carolyn Saarinen: nay
Soro Dagostino: Nay
Cindy Ecksol: ok, nays too
Cindy Ecksol: I say nay
Pip Torok: nay
Soro Dagostino: [Just to be safe] Nay
Gwyneth Llewelyn whistles the “International”
Micael Khandr: nay
Cindy Ecksol: thank you, soro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: NAY NAY THRICE NAY !
Cindy Ecksol: I see 7 nays, two Ayes…the proposition is defeated.
Cindy Ecksol: next (and last) on the agenda today:
Cindy Ecksol: Caro, I believe you have a motion?
Carolyn Saarinen: Well, Jamie does.
Arria Perreault: I asked before if I can make an alternative proposal?
Jamie Palisades: Caro, I cannot make a motion at RA.
Cindy Ecksol: arria, yes…but next time.
Carolyn Saarinen: It’s the matter of amending our laws regarding factions. Jamie, please explain.
Cindy Ecksol: agenda is packed today, no new items
Jamie Palisades waits for Cindy
Arria Perreault: May I a remark though?
Soro Dagostino: We are missing a party . . .
Cindy Ecksol: I’ll take that as a motion to introduce the proposal noted on the agenda
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, you have the floor
Carolyn Saarinen: Yes
Soro Dagostino: Second.
Soro Dagostino: Move to table.
Jamie Palisades: well, ok, but only to say that this is the proposal i suggested some time ago to make factions an optional part of CDS politics, not its center and utter ruler.
Cindy Ecksol: a second for Soro’s motion?
Jamie Palisades shuts up, waiting on the tabling motion
Cindy Ecksol: (tabling means we will take this up next time)
Carolyn Saarinen: I thought Soro was seconding my motion
Jamie Palisades: he did
Gwyneth Llewelyn thought so, too
Soro Dagostino: I did
Cindy Ecksol: he did…and now has moved to wait until next time
Cindy Ecksol: any second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah! lol
Soro Dagostino: Then I moved to table.
Cindy Ecksol: if not, we move to discussion…
Cindy Ecksol: 10 minutes today in light of the party
Gwyneth Llewelyn would definitely like the discussion to *start* today so I won’t second the motion to table
Cindy Ecksol: ok, motion to table fails for want of a second
Cindy Ecksol: jamie, you have the floor.
Soro Dagostino: Thanks the body.
Cindy Ecksol: 10 minutes, then a motion
Jamie Palisades: I doubt i need to say much that has not already been typed. I got some help in parsing out the policy issues from my neighbor here, Patroklus, and between the two of us, we are getting some of the opinions aired on the Forum pages Done for now
Arria Perreault: (for Constitutional change: 10 minutes: )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the irony, Arria )
Arria Perreault: (expeditive democracy)
Cindy Ecksol: relax, ladies!
Jamie Palisades: (until the RA moves to change that, Arria .. ask Gywn, she knows rules)
Cindy Ecksol: we are just BEGINNING discussion today, ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Tovarich, I mean, Ms LRA… we’ll relax
Jamie Palisades: Ah I always knew you were a fellow Red at heart, Red
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that was mandatory today?
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Arria Perreault: I did not even had the time to make alternative to my proposal
Arria Perreault: so
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, you have the floor
Patroklus Murakami: well, apparently *everyone* in the CDS is a communist today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apparently, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…
Jamie Palisades: see/ don;t NEED factions
Cindy Ecksol checks her red hat
Pip Torok: ????? …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After some thoughts and discussion,
Patroklus Murakami: no, the soviets never did!
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, comments, rebuttal, etc?
Cindy Ecksol: time’s a wastin’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, just a commenty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In principle, at least the CSDF doesn’t oppose Jamie’s suggestion of a “faction-less” constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, this might come as a surprise to you, Jamie )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is just a point that we feel that might require a bit of clarification
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d go for the method of having STV as opposed to “first past the post”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we’d like to see some discussion about “replacements”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The current proposal is not SO clear. I mean, you could get a completely different person on the RA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the original person that was voted for leaves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And having by-elections *all the time* would be a pain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sooo barring those two points,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we would definitely go for the change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After all, there is a plain, simple fact that no faction today can deny: most of us won’t meet the criteria for continuing to be around on the next elections ))
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So let’s be practical!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, thanks.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else? discussion? comments?
Cindy Ecksol: jamie?
Jamie Palisades: On one minor point
Jamie Palisades: STV
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Jamie Palisades: single transferable vote
Jamie Palisades: just so people know
Jamie Palisades: it;ls a way to count cumulative votes that SORT OF
Jamie Palisades: works like our current system
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* quite right.
Jamie Palisades: in the sense that it gives some rank to secondplace preferences
Jamie Palisades: and so is a little more forgiving to minority candidates
Jamie Palisades: . done, just thought it was worth mentioning.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks jamie
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else?
Pip Torok: yes
Cindy Ecksol: pip?
Pip Torok: imo the great pinch has been the 10% rule …
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Pip Torok: we should recognise that ppl in CDS can and should be allowed to be indifferent to politics
Pip Torok: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks puo
Cindy Ecksol: pip
Cindy Ecksol: sorry….
Jamie Palisades nods
Cindy Ecksol: can we entertain a motion to table so that we can adjourn and go party?
Micael Khandr: Comrades, I move that membership in a faction not be a qualifier for running for office or voting.
Soro Dagostino: I second.
Cindy Ecksol: micael, we already have a similar motion on the table….
Cindy Ecksol: or related, anyway — your proposal requires constitutional amendment
Countdown Timer V3.0: Time is up!
Micael Khandr: What motion are you calling for, Cindy?
Micael Khandr: Motion to adjourn?
Cindy Ecksol: Caro’s motion is currently on the table for discussion (Jamie’s proposal)
Cindy Ecksol: I need a motion to table
Micael Khandr: I see
Cindy Ecksol: (discuss at next meeting)
Pip Torok: so moved
Micael Khandr: Sorry
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Soro Dagostino: second.
Arria Perreault: we can also discuss longer
Cindy Ecksol: thansk
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Pip Torok: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Micael Khandr: Aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Party TIME !
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok, motion tabled.
Arria Perreault: abstain
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains
Soro Dagostino: Move adjournment.
Cindy Ecksol: any concerns of council or citizens?
Cindy Ecksol: if not, is there a second for soro’s move to adjourn?
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Micael Khandr: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Patroklus Murakami: cheerio
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye !
Arria Perreault: abstains
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains again (with due respect to the ones who wish to party, of course; Rose put a lot of effort into it and we shouldn’t remain here talking, but, alas, sometimes we also discuss important things )
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Jamie Palisades: Folks, please do join us over in the Marktplatz, even if only briefly. Thanks
Cindy Ecksol: we are adjourned and thank you.
Permalink.

RA Meeting 20 December 2009

RA Meeting 20 December 2009: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:28 pm
In attendance: Cindy Ecksol, Soro Dagostino, Gwyneth Llewelyn, Sonja Strom, Pip Torok, Naftali Torok, Micael Khandr
Seven day votes: Joaquin Gustav, Arria Perrault, Carolyn Saarinen, Robert Galland

Cindy Ecksol: ok, recorder is running…
Cindy Ecksol: please click on it now (even if you did before) to indicate consent
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn says hi and quickly touches teh recorder!
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow I love that skirt, Cindy ? I love all assymetric designs )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops … forgot about the recorder!!!
Cindy Ecksol: yes, it’s nice isn’t it?
Cindy Ecksol: went shopping a couple of weeks ago
Sonja Strom: yes, it is
Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
Pip Torok: hi sonja, gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Hello Pip
Pip Torok: soro, cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that she’s the only one not dressed in the Christmas spirit…
Cindy Ecksol: do you recognize the top, gwyn? you should!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, that looks familiar, Cindy )
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooo and the tiny gif tied to the end of the Santa hat… haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a tinklebell!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … these designers are too much ))
Pip Torok: ha … santa’s coming
Cindy Ecksol: yeah, that was pretty cute
Cindy Ecksol: touch the hat and it rings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahahahaha
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so sweet
Pip Torok: nafs doing encores at cedar island … “she may be some time”
Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
Cindy Ecksol: those fans, just wont’ let her go
Pip Torok: they cling so …
Gwyneth Llewelyn apologieses but had to get some coffee, brr
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: have already been out for three hours this morning.
Pip Torok: i’ll dare ask it … how’s the weather?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So did I… to cross the street only though
Cindy Ecksol: it’s well below freezing here, but I’ve finally adjusted…..
Cindy Ecksol: we only got about six inches in my backyard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “only”, she says…
Cindy Ecksol: big crowds shopping in the strip district (market district)
Pip Torok: shallow by USA standards …
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Pip
Cindy Ecksol: yes — they had two feet not to far south of me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow ….
Naftali Torok: present!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hi, Naf We all heard you have been a *huge* success ))
Cindy Ecksol: good job, naf!
Naftali Torok: finally can make it one time here
Cindy Ecksol: we’re still waiting for a quorum though…
Naftali Torok: just came from music island
Soro Dagostino: Hello Naf
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Slowly getting there, Cindy, very slowly….
Naftali Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: arria said she is coming….
Gwyneth Llewelyn *counts*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we need 7, right?
Cindy Ecksol: at least on the doodle she did…
Cindy Ecksol: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
Naftali Torok: hi gwyn, hi sonja hi sorro wnks at cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … I forgot about the doodle thingy!
Cindy Ecksol raises eyebrows at gwyn
Naftali Torok: looks at pip (thinks : he did change quick!!!) lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry ! …. but I’m here nevertheless
Pip Torok: quite!
Naftali Torok: sorro your xmas hat is too small i think….or yoyur intellect too much…
Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
Soro Dagostino: Fat head
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Naf
Cindy Ecksol: this hat I’m wearing is adjustable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks for a SL fur coat
Pip Torok: (find an accommodating SL Polar Bear?)
Cindy Ecksol: well, what do you think folks?
Naftali Torok: hey Good job Soro….fantastique now
Cindy Ecksol: shall we wait or give it up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with waiting
Soro Dagostino: Reading Jamie post, and the argument.
Soro Dagostino: If we ever get to it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I ought to read it too….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Cindy Ecksol: good idea….agenda in the amphora as usual
Pip Torok: in the Forum?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Micael is arriving! We might be saved!
Pip Torok:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Micael ) thanks for coming ))
Sonja Strom: Hi Micael
Cindy Ecksol: micael!
Soro Dagostino: hello Micael
Cindy Ecksol: you made a quorum!
Micael Khandr: Greetings–sorry I’m late.
Soro Dagostino: Good to see you.
Cindy Ecksol: you’re just in the nick of time…we were considering adjourning for lack of a quorum
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent timing )
Cindy Ecksol: ok, click the recorder if you have not, and let’s get started
Micael Khandr: I did
Cindy Ecksol: any additions to the agenda?
Soro Dagostino: Wish there were, now that we have a quorum
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro )
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and smiles
Cindy Ecksol: ok, no changes….?
Cindy Ecksol: can I get a motion to approve the agenda
Soro Dagostino: So move
Pip Torok: so move
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor aye, all opposed nay
Micael Khandr: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: excellent…
Pip Torok: pokes naf
Cindy Ecksol: ok, next meeting (last of the term) is scheduled for Jan 3
Cindy Ecksol: I will probably not make it…..
Cindy Ecksol: soro, will you be here? can you chair?
Soro Dagostino: It looks ok at this time.
Cindy Ecksol: great.
Cindy Ecksol: everyone ok with 9am on 3 jan?
Micael Khandr: OK
Soro Dagostino: Holiday weekend.
Pip Torok: i am
Sonja Strom: I am
Soro Dagostino: I am
Cindy Ecksol: yes…that’s why I’m asking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine too.
Cindy Ecksol: if we don’t do it on the 3rd, we’d have to do it next weekend
Cindy Ecksol: not sure that’s any better
Pip Torok: !
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: by the 10th we’ll be into the election…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Cindy Ecksol: so 3 jan at 0900
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Soro Dagostino: Agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that
Pip Torok: so move
Micael Khandr: OK
Cindy Ecksol: great.
Micael Khandr: OK second
Pip Torok: ok
Micael Khandr: third too
Cindy Ecksol: some 7 day votes today….joa, arria, caro, robert
Soro Dagostino: Fourth and a fifth — of brandy for Cindy
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Cindy Ecksol smiles and sips coffee…
Cindy Ecksol: I deserve it, don’t i??
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh most definitely, yes !
Cindy Ecksol: jamie is not here, so I guess no chancellor’s report.
Micael Khandr: Then we are on time
Cindy Ecksol: what I’m most concerned about right now is that we have not heard the census report yet…
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else know anything?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Pip Torok: not a thing and the DPU is anxious too
Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t know anything either….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, I usually don’t! hehe )(
Cindy Ecksol: all right, I will follow up with jamie. he must be busy in RL — have hardly seen him at all in world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mm hmm
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, I forget — does SC have to certify that census?
Soro Dagostino: I was told his RL schedule was really bad.
Soro Dagostino: And, I think SC has to certify.
Cindy Ecksol: I think I remember that too soro — gwyn, do you know?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Cindy Ecksol: all right needs to be done — faction cert and candidate declarations are due on the 25th
Gwyneth Llewelyn is brain dead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, those two certainly have to be certified by the SC
Cindy Ecksol jingles bell to wake gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure about the census though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane was online a couple of hours ago…
Soro Dagostino: In Section 2 . . . .
Cindy Ecksol: well, it’s jamie’s prerogative to announce, so I’ll work with him on that.
Soro Dagostino: SC does have to certify.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she logs back in, we can ask her directly about the census …. but yes, it’s up to Jamie
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Cindy Ecksol: moving on, stui is not here, so I guess no commerce commission report either….unless there’s a member present who wishes to comment?
Sonja Strom: I went to three meetings, but do not know what the commission is doing really.
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *is* a bad sign…!
Cindy Ecksol: ok then….I guess we move on
Cindy Ecksol: old business.
Cindy Ecksol: constitutional revision
Cindy Ecksol: discussion was tabled last tme, so we are still in “discussion time”
Soro Dagostino: Move to table
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn rubs hands and does an evil cat grin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Table again??? Oh my
Pip Torok: what does m 2 t mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It means postponing it…
Cindy Ecksol: pip, would mean that we will postpone until next meeting
Cindy Ecksol: again
Micael Khandr: second
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Pip Torok: well we do need to discuss it and we have the time here and now
Soro Dagostino: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Pip so votes “nay”
Pip Torok: nay
Sonja Strom: nay
Micael Khandr: But not everyone is here, so the discussion will be limited
Pip Torok: cant be laid to the subject-matter imo
Soro Dagostino: Difficult without the proponent here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we can’t foresee if “everybody will be here” next time, it’s better to discuss with whomever is around than to endlessly wait and hope for a fuller RA
Pip Torok: well imo it wd be a good time to take initial reactions
Micael Khandr: Hmm, not sure I wanted to wait endlessly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: imo too
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: ok….so are you changing your vote, micael?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: Nope, still Ayen to postponement
Sonja Strom: Hi Lysander, this is a public meeting, you are welcome to join us and listen.
Micael Khandr: Aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok…
Cindy Ecksol: need naf to vote …..
Cindy Ecksol: someone poke her please
Lysander Kaestner: Thank you very much. I believe I will observe for just a bit.
Naftali Torok: me
Naftali Torok: lol
Cindy Ecksol: yes, you!
Sonja Strom: yes
Naftali Torok: grins
Naftali Torok: sorry
Cindy Ecksol: motion is to postpone discussion of the amendment to abolish factions
Cindy Ecksol: aye if you would likke to postpone, nay if not
Pip Torok: the vote is whether or not to postpone talk of constitution
Micael Khandr: because not everyone is here
Soro Dagostino: [we could go home] Naftali Torok: postpone
Micael Khandr: [yes] Cindy Ecksol: and also vote aye
Naftali Torok: aye
Naftali Torok: postpone =better
Cindy Ecksol: discussino postponed until next time
Naftali Torok: great
Micael Khandr: perfect
Cindy Ecksol: I think this is difficult without the proponent…..
Naftali Torok: lol
Pip Torok: reluctantly agrees
Cindy Ecksol: no new business…
Cindy Ecksol: concerns of RA members?
Micael Khandr: I did want to mention something.
Gwyneth Llewelyn bites her tongue.
Cindy Ecksol: yes, micael?
Countdown Timer V3.0: only the owner can use this object
Micael Khandr: Just a FYI–
Cindy Ecksol: yes?
Micael Khandr: I plan to hold a series of open interviews starting mid-January at the Convivencia Institute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … interviews?
Micael Khandr: that would be with those here and not here that have worked in CDS for many or few years
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Micael Khandr: Just to gather experiences
Cindy Ecksol:
Micael Khandr: what and why and who
Pip Torok: I’m ready when you are, Micael
Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
Micael Khandr: Cool
Soro Dagostino: Your going to make us think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
Soro Dagostino: HAHAHAHAH
Micael Khandr: I will set up specfic dates and times with each of you, and hope the RA would be willing to start the ball rolling
Naftali Torok: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Soro Dagostino: Seriously, that sounds like a great idea.
Micael Khandr: I will eventually try to collect the info for an article I will write on SL and democracy.
Micael Khandr:
Micael Khandr: just a FYI
Micael Khandr: more to come
Pip Torok: any idea of when youll publish, Micael?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow wow wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: for a conference (in Europe) next year–probably will have to complete it by May
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s amazing, Micael!
Pip Torok: good (will have momentum then)
Micael Khandr: Yes
Cindy Ecksol: oooh, fun!
Naftali Torok: nods, great idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots of fun
Cindy Ecksol: when and where is th e conference
Micael Khandr: So, you’ll each and all hear from me after the first of the year
Cindy Ecksol: maybe we could have a CDS “meet up” at the same time/place?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, Micael, LL used to do lots of presentations using the CDS as an example…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good idea, Cindy!!
Micael Khandr: November in Hungary
Pip Torok: (dont anyone say C*p*nh*g*n)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And get streamed live into Micael’s presentation!
Cindy Ecksol: oooh, now THAT sounds like fun!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: roflPip
Micael Khandr: Thahnks for your positive response!
Micael Khandr: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: I have a friend in Czech REpublic I’ve been meaning to visit (
Micael Khandr:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s awesome really, Micael
Micael Khandr: Yes–that would be great to have any of you attend with me!
Gwyneth Llewelyn would just go incognito
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Micael Khandr: Perhaps on SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s always fine
Cindy Ecksol: well, will be happy to be interviewed, and will be even more interested to read the article
Cindy Ecksol: what’s the conference, micael?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy on both comments
Micael Khandr: One on teaching democracy
Lysander Kaestner: Thank you all, interesting stuff. Take care.
Pip Torok:
Micael Khandr: So this is a perfect example/case study!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh… depending on the word “perfect” :=)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Micael Khandr: True . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s say mmmh
Soro Dagostino: groan . . .
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: an *interesting* case study
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Soro !
Cindy Ecksol: well, it IS interesting…..
Soro Dagostino: We all have to wear gloves.
Cindy Ecksol: I’ve said before that in virtual worlds “code is law”….and CDS is the only experiment I know of that attempts to transcend that.
Pip Torok: and bow-ties?
Micael Khandr: I’ll have questions prepared and get some feedback at the next meeting, with your permission
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Specially for two reasons, IMHO… democracy is hard and not so obvious; we just take it for granted. And secondly, strangely enough, nobody really *cares* about democracy (just look at the whole of SL!), and that is more surprising… even fearful!
Cindy Ecksol: there are a LOT of analogies to RL republics….Israel, former soviet republics, etc.
Cindy Ecksol: afghanistan, Iraq….all of that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Pip Torok: quite …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “benelovent dictatorship” model is the prevalent one in SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … since that’s what LL also applies
Micael Khandr: landed gentry?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I prefer to call it “enlightened absolutism” )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I mean that too, Micael!
Pip Torok: even worse since LL dictates the SL equivalents of the laws of Physics
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two oooooooold articles of mine: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2004/09/24/t … cond-life/
Micael Khandr: beyond quantum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2004/12/03/w … s-so-hard/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “landed gentry” model is actually VERY good for SL!
Pip Torok: thanls Gwyn
Cindy Ecksol agrees with gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: look how successful Caledon has been!
Cindy Ecksol: ok…..
Cindy Ecksol: just realized we’re off into another world — let’s finish the meeting and continue this discussion after
Pip Torok: but then how democratic is Caledon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and on a side-note: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/12/26/d … companies/)
Cindy Ecksol: any other annoucements?
Micael Khandr: move to adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for so much self-promotion
Pip Torok: so move
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Micael
Cindy Ecksol: thank you micael and pip and gwyn
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ?
Micael Khandr: Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: excellent — we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 10 January 2010

RA Meeting 10 January 2010: Transcript
Meeting on 2010-01-10
Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and hi everybody really lol
Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyn and Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
Jamie Palisades smiles, waves, Good morning – virtually anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And here comes Jamie… hi Mr Chancellor!
Micael Khandr: Good day, all!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Arria
Jamie Palisades smiles. So, if we have not started official yet, has anyone seen a final candidated list or something. from the SC?
Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
Jamie Palisades: I’ve not
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
Gwyneth Llewelyn mumbles that she hasn’t seen anything.
Jamie Palisades: Arria, the new exhibit’s lovely, I finally got there to look
Arria Perreault: Thank you, Jamie
Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
Arria Perreault: Hi SOnja
Sonja Strom:
Jamie Palisades looks at his friends list stuff – now, was this the day we weren’t sure if Cindy was able to attend?
Arria Perreault: who is the LRA pro tempore ?
Jamie Palisades: Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm 6
Jamie Palisades: of 11? well, that’s 50%+1
Soro Dagostino: Has anyone heard from Cindy?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, we’ve got a quorum, if Soro is so kind to do the honours….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t… let me check email
Jamie Palisades: I have a faint memory that Cindy expresssed doubt, at the end of the last mtg, about being here on time, this week, for RL reasons
Soro Dagostino: If I recall, this meeting is being held regarding the two matters athat were tabled — or, mor specifically, specially set.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last mail I had from Cindy was:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Please let me know if you have any additional items for the final RA meeting of the term. Right now it looks like I will probably be able to attend the meeting, but if not, Soro will be there to chair.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that was for Jan 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, the agenda for the 3rd is in the amphora
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since we *do* have a quorum
Pip Torok: asa far as i understand .. this meeting is an overflow to Jan 3rd
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly,
Jamie Palisades: don’t think a new agenda was offered anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: namely on the issue of changing the elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees
Micael Khandr: Yes
Soro Dagostino: [Groan] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Soro
Pip Torok: hi Stui!
Sonja Strom: hello Stui
Jamie Palisades: Morning STui
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault: I have seen there is a new faction, SEED
Arria Perreault: Hi Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: never Fear
StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
StuiChicanne Darkstone: is here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hi Stui
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Pip Torok: a sort of “antifaction-faction ….
Soro Dagostino: As the Deputy LRA — I call the meeting to order.
Arria Perreault: Carolyn is candidate
Jamie Palisades smiles. As opposed to pro faction factions?
Soro Dagostino: Please note your consent to recordation.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Arria Perreault has indicated consent to be recorded.
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn consents to being recorded.
Jamie Palisades touches black box, which seems to do it still
Pip Torok: (the recorders on i think)
Gwyneth Llewelyn did that too hehe
Jamie Palisades: yup
Arria Perreault: it works
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *kicks the recorder*
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does… I wonder if it’s on since last week?!
Sonja Strom: Hi Rose
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m here too
Rose Springvale: hello everyone.
Pip Torok: hi Rose
Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good morning, Rose
Micael Khandr: G’day
Rose Springvale: shall i send a notice?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, flower girl
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Jamie Palisades: please
Pip Torok: weve got a quorum thanks Rose!:)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes we need a notice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, citizens are welcome to know we’re in session and come too
Soro Dagostino: Welcome
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t realise that the meeting was happening
StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees with Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone: there may be others that would have attended had they known
Pip Torok: (oh yes, theyre who we’re here fo!:)
Soro Dagostino: The Agenda is as published for the 3rd.
Soro Dagostino: Any additions or corrections.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: after all I arrived on account of speaking to Mr Khandr
Jamie Palisades: Soro?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m one for Soro !
Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: We might add any announcements, to the end, as we hadthat for the 3rd but there may be a few more now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, aye, good point.
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY
StuiChicanne Darkstone: announcements
Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to add announcements for the agenda for today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Stui
Pip Torok: seconds
StuiChicanne Darkstone: who’s getting married ?
Rose Springvale: ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll be priest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Joaquin Gustav: hello
StuiChicanne Darkstone: JO !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi, Joaquin!
Joaquin Gustav: hello friends
Pip Torok: hi joaquin
Rose Springvale: Hi Joaquin
Micael Khandr: G’day!
Sonja Strom: Hi Joaquin
Rose Springvale: hey Tor!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: JO !
Pip Torok: ah micael … hi
Tor Karlsvalt: hi rose
Rose Springvale smiles at my next potential vic..er citizen…
Sonja Strom: welcome Tor
Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Sonja
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh and thankyou all for your attendance on Wednesday
StuiChicanne Darkstone: STH is building an audience
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, some lag
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: Stui, did you want me to post that transcript or no?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: yea
Micael Khandr: Hi, Pip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a pity I have an overlapping thing on Wednesday, Stui, I’d love to be around too… )
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the people need to know what the people are thinking
Rose Springvale: okay, sorry, will do so today
Soro Dagostino: This is the last meeting of the term?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, I think so…
Jamie Palisades: Last scheduled one, I think
StuiChicanne Darkstone: STH is making the grid grind to a halt
Pip Torok: i think so, Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui!
Soro Dagostino: Who knows when we meet again
Rose Springvale: technically time for one more
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: We’ll meet again don’t know where
StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t know when…
Rose Springvale: just lame duck sessions though, and traditionally RA has not met for those
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I know we’ll meet again some sunny day !
Pip Torok: (sounds like the 3 witches, Soro!)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I missed my calling
Soro Dagostino: I have had no notice to any 7 day votes — for the record.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was about 40 years too late to be Vera Lynn
Jamie Palisades: Well I hope I do know where. The Thermae.
Soro Dagostino: Mr. Chancellor — do you have a report?
Pip Torok: hear hear, Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Certainly, and thanks
Jamie Palisades: a few items then let me yield to Rose for any other announcements
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Soro Dagostino: brb
Jamie Palisades: First, be aware, we have a fair amount of land, particularly in Locus Ameonus, open now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades smiles. I may write a few words for the benefit of the next RA’s planning on how , in my view, it got that way
Jamie Palisades: but for now, suffice to say, Rose and I still are in office this monht, and working to fill it up
Sonja Strom: Welcome Sterling, Jeroma
Jamie Palisades: And all help is appreciated, so send prospects out way please – or show them yourself
Pip Torok: hi Sterling!
Jamie Palisades: thhat was item 1
Jamie Palisades: item 2
Jamie Palisades: I have a few pending land actions that I must take, basefd on requests or complaints, and I;ve been *very* slow in SL the last month.
Pip Torok: Hi Jeroma
Jeroma Wycliffe: Pip
Jamie Palisades: My apologies – RL just gets busy at times – but be aware there will be a few actions and zoning items
Jamie Palisades: item 3
Jamie Palisades: i have usually, from the executive branch, taken the following roles in the RA election
Jamie Palisades: – bugging the SC to make sure the poll devices and such are in place, and announced
Jamie Palisades: heh
Jamie Palisades: – dealing with election signs/zoing, plaza placement
Jamie Palisades: *zoning
Jamie Palisades: so, FWIW, I am still doing that this time
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: I expect I also will be unofficially agitated for a return of our Thermae hang out, if a results time for the polls can be coaxed out of the SC
Jamie Palisades:
Jamie Palisades: For newer people, that’s an old CDS election tradition
Jamie Palisades: .. OK, let me yield to Rose
Rose Springvale: (Thanks Jamie
Rose Springvale: I don’t have much to add… New land available cards are out now
Rose Springvale: you can get them from me, or from group notices. I will put them in such of the info signs as i have perms to as well
Rose Springvale: I’d like to reiterate one thing Jamie said… and that is i’d really appreciate others helping us sell our land…
Rose Springvale: you all have contacts that might be interested, just takes a little time to explain:)
Rose Springvale: As for the election, we will be scheduling two events
Rose Springvale: one an informal meet & greet, which i expect to happen this week
Rose Springvale: and two, formal debates, which i’ve asked Aliasi to designate a moderator for.
Rose Springvale: Jamie or i are happy to moderate, and have in the past, but also SC members have successfully handled this,
Rose Springvale: i’m hoping that debate can happen next weekend, to give voters as much information early in the election as possible
Rose Springvale: The informal election result party …well we only have a day between polls closing and the new term starting, so hopefully the sc can count quickly
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Rose Springvale: and then we’ll have an inaugural ball early in the new term.
Rose Springvale: Anything else i should speak to Jamie?
Rose Springvale: questions?
Jamie Palisades smiles,
Jamie Palisades: I don;t think so Rose
Soro Dagostino: Any questions?
Jamie Palisades: FWIW, my first inclination was to see if Delia is available for the debate again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that would be nice…
Jamie Palisades: she did well and is quite neutral, I though
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees.
Jamie Palisades: I was neutral once
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Soro Dagostino: Jamie do you have more.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Jamie Palisades: But hey, now that my own view is that the factions should not own the RA
Jamie Palisades: heh heh
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I like Delia
Jamie Palisades: Good, she was generally acceptable before, I will inquire
Jamie Palisades: OK
Soro Dagostino: Jamie are you through?
Jamie Palisades: – my last item, then let me ask for questions. Rose mentione dnot being able to get perms for some of the info gadgets. We’ve not done as well as I hoped, making them GENERALLY usable. One thing that she and I are doing with this last few weeks of the term is looking into some device changes. Among other things, as Gwyneth noted 2 months ago, the main wwww.slcds.infoportal is weak for our needs. I suggest that members go look at http://winterfell.ning.com as an instance of something much easier — and much less top-down-techie-controlled. I am experimenting with it now, and may have some more to offer as a beta.
Arria Perreault: I have chacked my access to the portal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh yes. I think that the only thread I read (not commented) on the forums recently was Rose pretty much suggesting a move to Ning…
Arria Perreault: it works. So it is not a problem to useit
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if we could upload all the forum posts to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Possibly, yes
Arria Perreault: a lot of work has been invested in this portal and there are a lot of informations already there
Rose Springvale: smiles, hate to start too fresh…
Jamie Palisades: hmmmm – genericalluy those systems tend to be friendly to imports and hostile to exports, Gwyn, but phpBB has CSV export I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, I think I might be able to force it to do that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it would be worth a test, right?…
Rose Springvale: may i say something?
Soro Dagostino: Cindy will soon be here.
Arria Perreault: is it only for the portal or for all information, including portal?
Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose
Arria Perreault: portal is our visiting card
Jamie Palisades: Arria, our experience has been that while the system is very pretty, non-CMS /non-web professionals do not find it an easy place to contribute. Of course, this will be a question for next term’s leaders and RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s mostly an executive decision… unless a new budget needs to be approved…
Soro Dagostino: Rose has the floor\
Arria Perreault: yes, too early to decide now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops, sorry Soro ? and sorry Rose
Soro Dagostino: Hello Cindy
Rose Springvale: The portal has not been updated, as far as i can see, for over six months.
Cindy Ecksol wavew hello and sorry to be late
Arria Perreault: I am willing to work on the portal
Arria Perreault: just ask
Rose Springvale: we have 7 sims with no evidence of existence at all
Arria Perreault: I will add pages for the news sims
Keila Forager: I’ll bet for longer…
Rose Springvale: So when i show a new or potentially new citizen our portal… they get very confused
Rose Springvale: also
Arria Perreault: I thought Brian was member of the PIO team
Rose Springvale: when new people DO join us
Keila Forager: hard to navigate and quite a bit of info not accessable
Rose Springvale: the registration process.. no offense to anyone… generally takes tow or three tries
Rose Springvale: two*
Keila Forager: or incorrect
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale: so there is a chilling effect on new people to come back
Arria Perreault: there are two systems, forums and portal
Rose Springvale: please Arria
Arria Perreault: please don’t make a confusion betwenn these two systems
Rose Springvale: i’m not arguing.. i’m reporting observations.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: nothing more annoying than things that don’t work
Arria Perreault: I am willing to update
Rose Springvale: the portal is TOTALLY un interactive
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *kicks the recorder*
Rose Springvale: its just a nice tombstone
Arria Perreault: the portal give informations
Pip Torok: does the “question” system work?
Arria Perreault: like laws, lands, citizen lists
Rose Springvale: we need places where people can post land for sale, events, information
Soro Dagostino: While the chair is willing to allow a certain amout of discussion.
Arria Perreault: forums is the place to discuss
Rose Springvale: sigh
Keila Forager: Not good information Arria…I tried to read it when I became a citizen
Soro Dagostino: Its time to get in order.
Rose Springvale: thanks for giving me time soro.
Arria Perreault: we have a google calender already
Jamie Palisades: Thank you for that, all of you. As Arria said, this will not be finally decided until next term. Soro, colleagues, for now my only interest was to raise the issue for informal views and an eye to a test — (of NING), in which these good folks will be important test subjects
Jamie Palisades: and we’re done with our report
Pip Torok: may i make a suggestion, Mr LRA?
Soro Dagostino: Pip?
Arria Perreault: I have made an advice in he forum too
Soro Dagostino: Pip you have the floor
Pip Torok: i suggest that the person concernwed give someone (me?) a list of new citizens … and i run a party every month for them
Soro Dagostino:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Pip
Soro Dagostino: woot!
Sonja Strom:
Pip Torok: but i wd NEED a list of current new citizens!!
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Soro Dagostino: Now, back to the order of things.
Pip Torok: without it it just wdnt work
Jamie Palisades grins — more on that in the forums. We are trying to get our new widgets to do exactly that
Arria Perreault: anyway the forum has to be independant from Exec (for the record)
Jamie Palisades: even though severa; stakeholders hgavce strong (and differenmt) opinions about whose software ought to run everything
Jamie Palisades: Arria? Forum is run by SC
StuiChicanne Darkstone: one for Soro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I say something ?
Soro Dagostino: Stui — you may
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I have been a CDS member since the merger and or the benefit of pointing out the importance of the issue – I dunno what the hell the portal is
StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore it can’t be doing it’s job can it ?
Pip Torok: 9and i’d point them at the portal in the party, Stui!)
Jamie Palisades chuckles. Proof that no orientation, even when repeated, will make all citizens pay attention to the stuff we point them to
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *sits on the book again*
Soro Dagostino: Can this be taken to a working party?
Rose Springvale: stui, you have been given the information
StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but what’s the portal ?
Rose Springvale: website for cds
Jamie Palisades: ooo good one, Pip< maybe we can have an open invite meeting about this party/info idea, sometime soon? Not really something that has to wait for election StuiChicanne Darkstone: ah Keila Forager: It's not doing it's job Stui.. StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL* Pip Torok: its a sort of "help for new citizens" Stui... Soro Dagostino: Are we done with this folk? StuiChicanne Darkstone: like a cheat sheet ? Joaquin Gustav: brb Sonja Strom: Just to make it clear, this is the portal: http://portal.slcds.info Keila Forager: But it doesn't Pip, I'm a new resident and it sucks! Pip Torok: a bit more elaborate , but yes Jamie Palisades: psst - take it to a brainstorming session Pip Torok: lets have your crits keila! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keila Forager: Give me some time and I can give you specifics...not enough time here.. Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/ Pip Torok: kk Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/ Soro Dagostino: Thank you. Rose Springvale: yes i agree, there are others who want to weigh in on this.. . maybe a committee? Keila Forager: I write them out in a notecard for you this week.. Keila Forager: not opinion, but facts Pip Torok: tks ;-] Jamie Palisades: koff koff - agenda Keila Forager: unless you change it by then Soro Dagostino: Working party . . . Rose, Pip, Keila, and Arria? Pip Torok: fine by me Rose Springvale: just name a RA liasion, and we can work together Jamie Palisades: Can Pip just convene a meeting? And add me, please Arria Perreault: The executive was in charge to update this website Soro Dagostino: So appointed. Keila is the chair, Jamie too. Pip Torok: ok ... Arria Perreault: Brian Livingstone has done this job for months Jamie Palisades: if they can Arria, which was the point Soro Dagostino: Gavel time. Arria Perreault: I don't know what happen then Soro Dagostino: Bang Bang! Arria Perreault: maybe, Jamie, you can tell us Soro Dagostino: Take it to the working party Rose Springvale: hey Kami! Kamilah Hauptmann: *mew* Arria Perreault: it is under your responsibilty after all Jamie Palisades waves at Kami, mutters - nice hat. Arria, let's do it in the breakout session Arria Perreault: which breakout session? Soro Dagostino: Next item -- Commerce Commission -- Stui Arria Perreault: It was a too important work that we can stop it in one second Jamie Palisades: ("working party" Arria) Arria Perreault: the portal can be improved Soro Dagostino: Arria -- we are moving on. Arria Perreault: the CMS that is behind is very flexible StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I didn't plan for this eventuality I didn't realise that there was a meeting so there has been no progress StuiChicanne Darkstone: thinking it's gonna be going into the next RA Soro Dagostino: Questions for Stui? StuiChicanne Darkstone: unless anyone has objections Arria Perreault: as you always mention volunteering in the exec, this work was also volunteering of 3 people Ariel Feden: sorry Pip Pip Torok: ?? Ariel Feden: I was sitting on your lap StuiChicanne Darkstone: Ariel sat on you Pippet Pip Torok: oh! Gwyneth Llewelyn has no objections ? I'm just curious to see what kind of recommendations the committee might be bringing up for the next RA Arria Perreault: I will update this portal Rose Springvale: At this point, i think the committee should take over Gwyneth Llewelyn: shh Rose lol Arria Perreault: who is in this comittee? Jamie Palisades: aim your shushes where they will help, dear Gwyn Soro Dagostino: Look at the appointments. Soro Dagostino: Up the chat log. Rose Springvale: i don't think it makes sense to try to update now... lets get feedback and work with our citizens Arria Perreault: I will update Jamie Palisades: ** may i ask the chair on what agenda item the meeting currently sits? Rose Springvale welcomes ariel Soro Dagostino: Any more Stui? StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sorry I have hydrogen peroxide itch StuiChicanne Darkstone: finding it hard to type Keila Forager: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Stui!!!!! Soro Dagostino: Are you done Stui? StuiChicanne Darkstone: no I dont think so but I hope you like my new hair StuiChicanne Darkstone: and say hello to Ariel Arria Perreault: it is too easy to decide its death because it is not updated StuiChicanne Darkstone: he's new Soro Dagostino: Stlui? Jamie Palisades hits the side of his head gently, to see if his eyes will uncross StuiChicanne Darkstone: Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Ariel Arria Perreault: I want to be in this committee StuiChicanne Darkstone: yes one for Soro Rose Springvale: sigh, you were appointed Arria. StuiChicanne Darkstone: StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro have you said hello to Ariel ? Soro Dagostino: Ok, now that Stui is finsihed -- Constitutional revision concerning factions. Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponenet? Cindy Ecksol: carolyn introduced the original proposal StuiChicanne Darkstone: who isn't ? Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL* Micael Khandr: I think Caro was the original proponent Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Stui StuiChicanne Darkstone: Caro would have been here StuiChicanne Darkstone: but she didn't know about the meeting Rose Springvale: smiles, its been introduced Soro Dagostino: Who is to take her place as proponent. Soro Dagostino: To speak to the issue. Micael Khandr: I'm not sure I can speak to it . . . Micael Khandr: but, the general idea is to eliminate requirements for factions in elections. Soro Dagostino: Micael -- you have the floor. Micael Khandr: Gee, thasnks . . . StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was at discussion last week StuiChicanne Darkstone: Go Khandr ! Micael Khandr: I think we discussed this last week, and the reason we are meeting today is to see if the idea of not requiring faction membership for running would be applied to this election Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Micael Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Rose Springvale raises hand StuiChicanne Darkstone: that's correct ! Soro Dagostino: Rose Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* after Rose Soro Dagostino: Gwyn next Rose Springvale: At my last count, there were 12 people standing for election this term.. though candidates are not all posted or availble Soro Dagostino: Rose? Rose Springvale: which is highly likely Soro Dagostino: sry, slow keyboard Rose Springvale: the system we have now, unless i can't do math Micael Khandr: Rose, are all membes of a faction? Rose Springvale: says we will elect 11 reps Rose Springvale: but because of the faction system Rose Springvale: we will most likely have reps elected who have not "run"... and some good people who have volunteered to serve CDS will not be elected Rose Springvale: without a faction system, i believe that would be avoided. Rose Springvale: done Cindy Ecksol raises hand Soro Dagostino: Thank you Soro Dagostino: Gwyn? Micael Khandr: And hat is why we want to overturn the requirement for faction membership in order to run . . .thank you. Soro Dagostino: Cindy next in order. Jamie Palisades raises hand and pokes giant question mark thing Jamie Palisades: what about Gwyn? Cindy Ecksol: thanks soro. Pip Torok raises hand Soro Dagostino: Mic next Micael Khandr: You poked me in the head, Jamie . . . Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Cindy Ecksol: are we using the question mark? Jamie Palisades: oooooops Cindy Ecksol: if so can reset Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please do, Cindy Cindy Ecksol: but that wasn't my question...or comment Micael Khandr: My head . . ? Soro Dagostino: I am sorry, I can't read that divice. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah perfect Jamie Palisades: well, Micael, it was even riskier when Stui was sitting on it .. Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Cindy Cindy Ecksol: ok, it's reset.... Soro Dagostino: Please raise hands. Cindy Ecksol: my comment.... Micael Khandr: True . . . Rose Springvale: gwyns turn yes? Cindy Ecksol: I am not opposed to the idea of revising factions Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy Ecksol: rules Cindy Ecksol: sheesh, I thought I had th efloor? no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok hmm... the only thing I really had against the proposed (and detailed) amendment changes last week, Gwyneth Llewelyn: was about the replacements Cindy Ecksol: soro? Soro Dagostino: Cindy, your next Cindy Ecksol: ok, thx. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie suggested that we do by-elections for them Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally agree. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... to recap... I'd be ready to vote on Jamie's proposed amendment, Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the suggestion that replacements are handled (for now at least) with by-elections Soro Dagostino: Gwyn -- are you making a motion to call the question? Gwyneth Llewelyn: and with that, I think we'd have a full proposal which could be a motion Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh ? sorry Sory Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Soro Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... Arria Perreault: I second Soro Dagostino: Who can state the question? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like (with Jamie's permission) to propose Jamie's amendments with the by-election as replacements for the vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: (let me just get the URL for the records...) Cindy Ecksol wonders if we can have full text tplease..... Jamie Palisades: no problem. Are we looking at a motion now to pass it, or a motion now to close debate? Soro Dagostino: We should. Cindy Ecksol and also wonders why we're proposing to close debate with a full queue? Sterling Troughton has indicated consent to be recorded. Soro Dagostino: I have no raised hands. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I'll give you your turn, Cindy, because I'll take a bit to copy & paste Cindy Ecksol: you have a full queue soro Rose Springvale: jamie and cindy soro Cindy Ecksol: including me....do I have th efloor? Soro Dagostino: Gwyn do you yield to Cindy Jamie Palisades smiles, keeps hand raises, but after Cin and Pip Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Soro ? I'll take ttime assembkling bits and pieces Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no need to wait for me) Soro Dagostino: Cindy? Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks gwyn Soro Dagostino: Pip next Cindy Ecksol: as I started to say, I'm not opposed to the idea of revising the way that factions are used in CDS. Cindy Ecksol: however, I do not think that we are ready to pass this bill to apply to THIS election. Pip Torok: i suggest the time is past to make any change to the coming elections, but to debate it throughout next term and get it right for the followiuing term Cindy Ecksol: the details are not bullet-proofed, not even close. Pip Torok: done Cindy Ecksol: (not done yet) Cindy Ecksol: so I would like to amend the proposed bill to apply to NEXT election. StuiChicanne Darkstone: *picks up gavel and bangs it a few times* Cindy Ecksol: which will need a second of course. Pip Torok: second Rose Springvale raises hand Cindy Ecksol: that will give us time to work out the details properly so there are no unintended consequences. Soro Dagostino: Motion is seconded. Micael Khandr: Point of clarification: to vote to change the faction rule, but have it take place next election? Is that it, Cindy? Cindy Ecksol: thank you pip. and I am finished. Soro Dagostino: Jamie has the floor Jamie Palisades: thanks Jamie Palisades: If I may, to address Cindy's full text question, i *believe* Gwyn's proposal is to enact the constitutional amendment at http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630&p=14029#p14029, posted 4 December 2009 - but with "Alternative 2" chosen in Article 1 Section 2 (for STV), and, for clarity, with the following new additional sentence at the end of that same section: Cindy Ecksol: well, truthfully I think tha twe should defer the entire thing to next term. but there seems to be a majority to do it this term, so I would likek to see it apply NEXZT term Jamie Palisades: oops : ) you, ah, not done, Cindy? Cindy Ecksol: I was responding to Micael. Cindy Ecksol: done now, thanks. Micael Khandr: TY Jamie Palisades smiles Jamie Palisades: two things then Soro Dagostino: Discussion on the delay? Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Jamie ? thanks ? yes, that's pretty much it, Alt 2 and the additional text" Jamie Palisades: ,.. um, Soro, CIndy notwithstanding, do I have the floor? Soro Dagostino: Yes. Jamie Palisades: OK then Jamie Palisades: two things Jamie Palisades: first Jamie Palisades: motion clarification Jamie Palisades: see Gwyn & me above Jamie Palisades: but ARt 1 sec 2 needs onbe mnore setence at the end, to be clear that its FIRST sentence Jamie Palisades: also would apply to by-elections Jamie Palisades: thus, to get that done: Jamie Palisades: add: "Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law. Jamie Palisades: now Jamie Palisades: second point Jamie Palisades: which is (a) do it now? Jamie Palisades: (b) do it now, but to apply starting next term (in 6 months)? Jamie Palisades: (c) leave it for next RA Soro Dagostino: Point of Order. Jamie Palisades: Personally I rather like (a), and it's utterly legal for you to do so. Done thx Jamie Palisades: mm? for me, Soro? Soro Dagostino: I believe Cindy's Motion to by to delay approval to the next term Soro Dagostino: That is the motion before the body. Rose Springvale: so are we discussing that now? Jamie Palisades: .. so we have motion Gwyn seconded Arria, amendment Cindy? OK, who seconded it? And I was just speaking against it Soro Dagostino: That is before us. Rose Springvale reiterates raised hand Cindy Ecksol: actually my motion was to dealy IMPLEMANTTION of whatever we pass to next term, Pip Torok: I seconded Cindy's StuiChicanne Darkstone: shouldn't we be discussing the point more before voting on a motion to defer ? Cindy Ecksol: so an amendment to....whatever it is that jamie said Soro Dagostino: Not how I saw it. Cindy Ecksol: (the actual proposal) Cindy Ecksol: that is what I meant soro Cindy Ecksol: consider this clarification StuiChicanne Darkstone: how do people know what they are deferringif they have not fully discussed it ? Cindy Ecksol: I am proposing to amend the proposal on the table to implement next term Cindy Ecksol: Cindy Ecksol: whatever we decide to pass, stui Pip Torok: the idea is that we discuss it thoroughout the next term Stui ... Micael Khandr: In other words, vote for it, if approved, defer it to next election. Rose Springvale: sigh Keila Forager pinches herself Soro Dagostino: Rose? Jamie Palisades: Soro? ruling? what's the motion to amend? Rose Springvale: waiting for ruling on motion... Soro Dagostino: The chair takes the motion to be one to table. Jamie Palisades flinches - that wasn't YOUR leg Keila. Rose Springvale: okay.... StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask soemthing ? Rose Springvale: so do i have the floor? StuiChicanne Darkstone: *something ? Keila Forager: Sorry Soro Dagostino: Rose Keila Forager: hehe Soro Dagostino: That motion is non-debateble. Rose Springvale: thank you. This RA has had some major issues presented to it this term Rose Springvale: and each time, your decision has been well discussed, and often delayed in implementation Rose Springvale: i'll point to the election calendar as an example Rose Springvale: i'm concerned that the new RA will again want to discuss and discuss. Jamie Palisades: hee hee he just told you that you can't speak - but the tabel motion will lose, likely Rose Springvale: i'm concerned that in this experiment, we are so afraid to Try anything Soro Dagostino: Thank you rose. Jamie Palisades: soro? sorry but - are we debating the nondebatable? Rose Springvale: he recognized me twice before i began speaking Soro Dagostino: You are now out of order. Rose Springvale: wonderful, always wanted to be Soro Dagostino: The question is to table. Soro Dagostino: StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want to say something Soro Dagostino: All in favor? StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I'll say it either way Cindy Ecksol: table to next term soro? Micael Khandr: Nay StuiChicanne Darkstone: out of order or not I can still type StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy Ecksol: I vote "aye" to that Pip Torok: abstain Rose Springvale: sigh Soro Dagostino: BAngs gavel on Stue's head Cindy Ecksol: (but not sure we really have a motion and second) StuiChicanne Darkstone: I will say that it'd be really stupid to vote now StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account that this meeting was called Jamie Palisades: Try for something less solid, Soro Pip Torok agrees StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I myself said I had no notion of it StuiChicanne Darkstone: and nor did the proponent of this StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore you are not getting an accurate vote Soro Dagostino: Please -- the motion to table has precedent. Soro Dagostino: We need to get back to the discussion. StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't care about the precedent StuiChicanne Darkstone: I speak about logic Ariel Feden: can you repeat the motion under vote? Soro Dagostino: Vote please on the motion to table. Gwyneth Llewelyn: nay! StuiChicanne Darkstone: and common sense Micael Khandr: nay Pip Torok: abstain StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think everyone knows my vote StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would like to know Caro's tho StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it's ok with everyone StuiChicanne Darkstone: seeing as she is the proponent StuiChicanne Darkstone: and isn't h Jamie Palisades: ((Arria - vote yes to table = no action. Vote no = maybe action on this item at this meeting)) StuiChicanne Darkstone: here StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wonder how that happened ? Soro Dagostino: Two aye, two nay Jamie Palisades: Think about that next time you pick an LRA, Stui Soro Dagostino: Anyone else Arria Perreault: I can vote StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro Soro Dagostino: Yes. StuiChicanne Darkstone: where is Caro ? Keila Forager: I don't have a vote, but seems like there is way to much procrastination Cindy Ecksol: jamie, that was uncalled for! Caro was the one who volunteered to introduce. I had nothing to do with it. Soro Dagostino: Order please. StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask something before I vote ? Rose Springvale: caro may not be a rep next term Rose Springvale: not fair to continue to delay with excuses, you all know she supports it Soro Dagostino: Arria -- your vote? Arria Perreault: nay Soro Dagostino: Stui? StuiChicanne Darkstone: well is caro assumed as a supporter of factionless RA ? Rose Springvale: she is the leader of SEED Soro Dagostino: I would think so. StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore even in absence her vote can stand ? Rose Springvale: that is their only agenda StuiChicanne Darkstone: as we know how she would vote on this Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe voting by proxy is not allowed in the RA... Gwyneth Llewelyn: not yet at least! StuiChicanne Darkstone: and as she couldn't attend I would pass a motion to have her vote added StuiChicanne Darkstone: we all know what it would be Jamie Palisades: um, sir, aren't we in the middle of finishing a failing (2-3) vote to table? Stui, we can't count her vote if she's not here Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't think that's constitutional... the SC might have an issue with that, deem the vote irregular, and revert the decision Jamie Palisades: yup Pip Torok agrees with Gwyn StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok Cindy Ecksol notes that this is a procedural vote that would not be subject to 7 day voting anyway Jamie Palisades: Gwyn you and I are agreeing entierly too much. It might affect the weather StuiChicanne Darkstone: I vote NAY ! Jamie Palisades: 2-4 Soro Dagostino: Chair votes nay. Soro Dagostino: Motion carried. StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I'll be the spirit of CAro ! Jamie Palisades: eh? Soro Dagostino: Back to the main motion as amended Rose Springvale: faild i think Micael Khandr: not carried Sonja Strom votes nay Pip Torok: nay Soro Dagostino: Sorry, yes -- Motion to table failed. Ariel Feden: lol - phew Micael Khandr: I suggest two motions: The first, all the things Jamie and Gwyn wrote earlier, and for this election. If that passes, we are off and running. If not, I propose the same thing, but deferred until next election. Rose Springvale: please restate what you are voting on Countdown Timer V3.0: only the owner can use this object Countdown Timer V3.0: only the owner can use this object Gwyneth Llewelyn: clever, Micael hehe Soro Dagostino: The proposal was logged above. Soro Dagostino: Jamie would you restate? Jamie Palisades: sure Jamie Palisades: four points Jamie Palisades: 1. main body of text here: Gwyneth Llewelyn does apologise, but copying "orange" and "bold" from the forums into a notecard is not fast! Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630&p=14029#p14029 Jamie Palisades: with the orange text being DELETED Jamie Palisades: and the NEW text - the amendment itself - being BOLD Jamie Palisades: as the post shows the WHOLE constitution Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Jamie Palisades: but the proposed action is on the amends and deletes Jamie Palisades: 2. One selection of an alternative Jamie Palisades: in art 1 sec 2 Jamie Palisades: "Alt 2" Jamie Palisades: which uses STV, a system a bit more friendly to minority voters Jamie Palisades: 3. One added setence Jamie Palisades: at end of art 1 sec 2 Jamie Palisades: "Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law." Jamie Palisades: 4. I note that, at present, this would take effect immediately. Jamie Palisades: done thanks Rose Springvale: for people who are new here, we usually have this on notecard... apologies Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . . Jamie Palisades raises eyebrow? Soro Dagostino: The amendment is to have it take effect next term. Rose Springvale: that was voted down Soro Dagostino: Or to be immediate? Soro Dagostino: Not to my recall. The motion to table was voted down. Cindy Ecksol raises hand because cannot get to ? Soro Dagostino: There was a friendly amendment to vote now, take effect the next following term. Rose Springvale sits on hands ... Soro Dagostino: Cindy Gwyneth Llewelyn: To my recall, we haven't voted on the amendment to have this enter in effect in 6 months ? but we can do that Jamie Palisades: is it? Sorry, did not hear that raised. Resctfully disagree with th chair. Gwyn moved mmediate. You turned Cindy's amendment into a tabling motion. No other amendments offerede. Main motion is up now. It was Micael's suggestion that you proceed to a vote. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I moved immediate, yes. We can vote to amend it not to be immediate. Cindy Ecksol: ah, gwyn said what I was going to say: I made a motioj (seconded by pip) that we amend the proposal to take effect next term Rose Springvale agrees with jamie and gwyn Micael Khandr: Yes Rose Springvale and blames them for the ice on my palm trees Cindy Ecksol: believe that is still on the table Jamie Palisades: Maybe Cindy should offer her *second* delay proposal now, afresh, as an amendment? Unless someone moves to close debate Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Rose Arria Perreault: I hope it s too Soro Dagostino: Is there such a Motion? StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY for factionless RA ! Cindy Ecksol: ok, for the record I propose that we amend the current bill to take effect immediately followiing the election Micael Khandr: I think it would serve our decision making better if we voted to see if we wanted to do it now, rather than pre-empt that vote by saying next term first. Micael Khandr: So our motion is to do it now? Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose Springvale: yay!! Micael Khandr: for this election? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Jamie Palisades: (not if cindy gets a second) Soro Dagostino: Yes StuiChicanne Darkstone: do it now Soro Dagostino: True Micael Khandr: Call the vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, like Jamie said. Cindy Ecksol: wait! Cindy Ecksol: out of order, soro! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy GOT a second btw. Cindy Ecksol: my amendment was seconded by pip! Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was. Pip Torok: right Cindy Ecksol: need to vote on it before voting on the whold thing Jamie Palisades: the table one, or the next term one? OK, then vote on it Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have to vote on Cindys amendment Cindy Ecksol: either we will amend...and then pass for next term Micael Khandr: Would you withdraw your second, Pip? Rose Springvale: she could withdraw StuiChicanne Darkstone: *talks to pippet quietly* Cindy Ecksol: or amendment will fail, and we will vote for this term Pip Torok: no Micael Khandr: OK Soro Dagostino: Order please. StuiChicanne Darkstone: *bats eyelids* Pip Torok: ah ... then i withdraw second Soro Dagostino: The amendment dies? Cindy Ecksol: then I withdraw my amendment Micael Khandr: Whew . . thanks Cindy Ecksol: for lack of a second Soro Dagostino: Now to the main motion. Cindy Ecksol: (you will not thank me six months from now micael ) Micael Khandr: call the vote Jeroma Wycliffe practices batting his eyelids Soro Dagostino: The question has been called. StuiChicanne Darkstone: yay for batting eyelids Rose Springvale will hold lessons after meeting. its 'fluttering" you southern belles Soro Dagostino: The vote is to adopt for immediate effect. Cindy Ecksol: (voting to do this NOW will violate existing constitution) Rose Springvale: it amends, not violates. Cindy Ecksol: both Pip Torok agrees that micael will not thank Cindy in 6 monthe Cindy Ecksol: you can't interrupt a process that is already in process.... Rose Springvale: discussion over, question called Jamie Palisades: all changes to a constitution violate the old one, by definition Soro Dagostino: Call the vote . . Cindy Ecksol: and change the rules of the game Micael Khandr: I tend to give thanks liberally . . . Soro Dagostino: All in favor? Micael Khandr: Aye Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Jamie. We've been there before... Cindy Ecksol: nay Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye Pip Torok: nay StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE CAPT SORO Sonja Strom: nay Cindy Ecksol notes that we need a supermajority.... Micael Khandr: We are all super, Cindy . . . StuiChicanne Darkstone: *holds up a caro puppet* Micael Khandr: Ha! Jamie Palisades: no need, STui, we have rules for absent members StuiChicanne Darkstone: I miss Caro StuiChicanne Darkstone: she's like me Jamie Palisades: I miss orderly meeting Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye. Arria Perreault: nay Soro Dagostino: the motion fails. Micael Khandr: I move that Jamie and Gwyn?s previous motion go into effect for the next election. StuiChicanne Darkstone: Soro Dagostino: Is there a second? Pip Torok: "next election"? Micael Khandr: The one after the one coming up Pip Torok: motion is unclear! Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I second that, Micael... I thought that motion was on the table already. Yes, let's amend it to "into effect in 6 months" Arria Perreault: in JUly Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, July Micael Khandr: TY Micael Khandr: July it is! Soro Dagostino: Do I have a Second? Gwyneth Llewelyn points to her own words Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you do, Mr Pro Tem LRA Micael Khandr: Gwyn has seconded Jamie Palisades: If you want to go there, suggest that the effective date be one day before the census date of the second general election in 2010. Soro Dagostino: Oh, Gwyn did . . . Soro Dagostino: Is that amendment accepted? Gwyneth Llewelyn proposes to add Jamie's suggestion to the motion as a friendly amendment Micael Khandr: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question? Micael Khandr: Yes Soro Dagostino: All in favor? Micael Khandr: aye Cindy Ecksol: nay Sonja Strom: nay Pip Torok: nay StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE AYE Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye Arria Perreault: do we vote on the motion now? Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie Palisades: eh? I thought that was the second Khandr motion Arria Perreault: nay Soro Dagostino: Jamie? Jamie Palisades: which, with four votes, would fail as Constl Amdts require 8. Am I on wrong page here? Soro Dagostino: My understanding -- is that this vote is to change the constitution effective now, and setting the time for operation at the day before the next census? Micael Khandr: Correct Jamie Palisades: Yes - and would require less than 4 nay votes to pass Cindy Ecksol: what??? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, well, unless amended... 6 months is a lot of time. And I believe Jamie is correct Pip Torok doesnt agree with Jamie Cindy Ecksol is now not sure what she voted on... Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose Springvale: because now we have true faction action. i'm sure the people represented by those nay votes will be happy, i just dont' know who they are Soro Dagostino: Ok, Chair rules a revote is in order. Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) We voted on the constitution amendment to remove factions. No "time limit" has been set, so it becomes law as soon as the SC ratifies it (e.g. "immediately") Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then 2) We voted on the same constitutional amendment, but entering into effect on the July 2010 elections. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That also failed. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that right? Soro Dagostino: I don't believe all knew what the question before the body was. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops Micael Khandr: and the firendly amendment was to have it go into effect after the current election, correct? Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, that is my understanding. Soro Dagostino: Yes. Micael Khandr: friendly . . Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the constitution itself would have been changed immediately (after teh SC ratifies it). It would only affect the July 2010 elections though. Micael Khandr: That is it, then! Micael Khandr: Perhaps a re-vote, just to clarify what it is? Arria Perreault: yesss Arria Perreault: please tell clearly about what we vote Soro Dagostino: That is what the Chiar has ruled. Rose Springvale: smiles. remember that the factions here represent, if anyone, less than 1/3 of the CDS population when you vote Arria Perreault: write the texte Arria Perreault: yes, thank you Soro Arria Perreault: it's so in RL, Rose Micael Khandr: Does Jamie or Gwyn have a cut-and-pasted version? Arria Perreault: and nobody sais it is undemocratic Rose Springvale: not wher i live, and we are supposed to be doing better here Soro Dagostino: The text is as was posted by Jamie -- with the amendment to have the new law take effect the day before the July election Census. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish I did, Micael ? but it's not easy to change the bold/orange text into curly braces and bracketed braces to have it on a notecard Sonja Strom thinks "members" and "represented" are two different things. Micael Khandr: Yes, sorry . . . Jamie Palisades: I do say it is undemocratic, Arria Just for the record. Many timers Cindy Ecksol: sorry, soro, I idid not understand that.... Cindy Ecksol: thought we were still voting on "this term" Rose Springvale: i think it is self preservation and manipulation, but Rose wouldn't say anything so strong Soro Dagostino: No. Micael Khandr: OK, so I call for (another) vote. Cindy Ecksol: *sigh* Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that Sonja is quite right hehe ? but we digress, we could discuss if the RA also represents people that haven't voted on the previous elections (e.g. abstentions) or not... nice philosophical discussion Jamie Palisades: Soro - you just ruled *something*? Like Cindy, I missed it Kamilah Hauptmann prefers the Star Chamber approach to governance. Cindy Ecksol: OOOOOKKKKKKKK..... Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Kamilah Soro Dagostino: Order please Cindy Ecksol: can we have the vote called clearly please? and vote clearly? Arria Perreault: I propose that we vote about the proposal of Jamie, that would comes in force in July 2010 for the next election and with a replacement of leaving RA members with by-election Micael Khandr: "this term" failed, Cindy Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I second Arria's motion. I believe there is no problem in calling the same motion twice Arria Perreault: ty Soro Dagostino: Not per my ruling. Jamie Palisades: hm. Arria, maybe Gwyneth can check that, but I believe that IS the same motion in substance as the one that Michael was proposing, now that we are clear. not a problem, just a clarification Micael Khandr: Yes Arria Perreault: Soro has said we revote Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to vote? Cindy Ecksol: call the vote soro Soro Dagostino: Everyone have it in mind? Arria Perreault: I am proposing something clear to vote Jamie Palisades nods Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Jamie,it's pretty much the same motion. But, as said, I don't think there is anything forbidding that Micael Khandr: Ouch Sonja Strom: So, to clarify, an "aye" vote woud be in favour of changing the constitution... (?) Jamie Palisades: yes, but effective next term Soro Dagostino: Yes. Cindy Ecksol: specifically day before census. Arria Perreault: and by-election? Jamie Palisades: yes Cindy Ecksol: what's this about "by election"? Soro Dagostino: That is my understanding. Jamie Palisades: (the sentence i added, CIn, earlier this meeting) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, CIndy ? it's how members are replaced Arria Perreault: Gwyn's first motion Soro Dagostino: She wasn't here then. Arria Perreault: that passed Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, see my mumbling and grumbling last session. With a faction-less system, how do you make sure that the citizen's votes are preserved when a member leaves? Soro Dagostino: As an amendment -- friendly Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie proposed, quite simply, that we get by-elections Gwyneth Llewelyn: just for that single chair Gwyneth Llewelyn: it worked well in the past, so, well, why not Jamie Palisades: all clear? Y'all gonna vote? Gwyneth Llewelyn is clear and happy to vote Soro Dagostino: Call for votes Micael Khandr: clear! Soro Dagostino: All in favor. Micael Khandr: AYE! Keila Forager will start singing soon ...lalallalalalallalalalala Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye Sonja Strom: nay StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE ! Arria Perreault: aye StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE ! StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE ! Rose Springvale: stui lol Jamie Palisades: dd 16 Jamie Palisades: dd 0 Jamie Palisades: dd 24 Jamie Palisades: dd 16 Jamie Palisades: dd 32 Arria Perreault: your vote counts only once Jamie Palisades: dd 24 Cindy Ecksol: aye Pip Torok: aye Keila Forager: Spamming Jamie...lol Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: he's interfering with the vote )))) Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles* Micael Khandr: 6-1? Soro Dagostino: 7 ayes, 2 nays Micael Khandr: 7-2! Micael Khandr: StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY ! Soro Dagostino: Motion carries. Rose Springvale: wait Rose Springvale: do we need 8? Cindy Ecksol: is 7 enough for constituional amendment? Keila Forager: LOL Cindy Ecksol: think we need 8 Pip Torok: 2 nays? i saw only 1 Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do need 2/3 of 11 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I just say one nay too Jamie Palisades: That's why there are 7 day votes, ladies and gentlemen Micael Khandr: I think only 1 nay Keila Forager: I say aye Keila Forager: hehe Pip Torok: soro ... its one nay imho Jamie Palisades: May I rise to a point of order? StuiChicanne Darkstone: *pokes people for Aye's* Soro Dagostino: The Chair will first say that he was in error -- there was only one nay. Soro Dagostino: Jamie? Jamie Palisades: Soro, to know the next steps here, it would be helpful to have a ruling or statement on two things Arria Perreault: I think we have tried enough on this topic Jamie Palisades: 1. Do 7 day votes not apply? (I assume so and thus that Caro can get her vote in) Rose Springvale: joaquin at least as he started the meeting Micael Khandr: appl or not apply? StuiChicanne Darkstone: CARO ! CARO ! Arria Perreault: has someone asked for a 7-day vote? Jamie Palisades: 2. Does the 2/3rds rule in the constitution count all membrs, or just present members? ( I read it as the latter for textual reasons I could discuss.) Soro Dagostino: The Chair is will to allow those as 7 day votes -- we did fail to issue notice. Arria Perreault: this is the question Jamie Palisades: OK, that's one ruling, thanks. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes, they do, but we have to ask first which members have indeed requested for 7-day votes. StuiChicanne Darkstone: Caro didn't know about the meeting therefore she couldn't ask for 7 day vote Pip Torok agrees with Stu Gwyneth Llewelyn: And jamie, the 2/3 is of ALL members. Constitutional changes are important StuiChicanne Darkstone: likewise I didn't know about the meeting until I IM'd Micael Micael Khandr: I affirm Soro's call. Gwyneth Llewelyn: How didn't she know about the meeting? Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, my take on that is that the chair is within his power - as I would if I were LRA - to let NONNOTICED members register their vote. RA can overrule him of course Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait StuiChicanne Darkstone: because it wasn't communicated as per usual Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Pip Torok: there was no notice of this meeting gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this is an irregular meeting? hehe StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui Micael Khandr: Very much . . . Jamie Palisades: If LRA post meeting notices and agendas , well, OK so I'd say, let Soro;s ruling stand Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. StuiChicanne Darkstone: had it been communicated I would have been here on time Jamie Palisades: but hey, move to overrule him if you disagree StuiChicanne Darkstone: I was late Rose Springvale: ijoaquin; is in concert and has said he wants 7 day Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought we had agreed on the date on the last meeting... StuiChicanne Darkstone: because I wondered why so many RA members were online Micael Khandr: Joaquin was here at the beginning of the meeting . . . StuiChicanne Darkstone: ah but Gwyneth the last meetnig was such an uproar that no one knew what was going on at the end Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, I'm afraid that either a) people who wish to have a 7-day vote will need to inform the LRA as per the usual procedures; or b) we'll have to vote on allowing those since allegedly this meeting is irregular Keila Forager: I didn't know about it either Pip Torok: we had agreed gwyn but it still wasnt notified and the transcript hadnt been published Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Stui ? like all meetings ,) Arria Perreault: are we trying all looking how to get the missing votes to get the aye? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: This should make the next SC meeting very fun Rose Springvale: we are trying to make sure the constitution is amended or not based on the will of the people. Soro Dagostino: Joaquin has just made his request for a 7 day vote -- granted. Micael Khandr: Yes Kamilah Hauptmann: Meeting appears to be planned to keep key people from voting. *laughing behind hand* Jamie Palisades: Personally I can't say strionbgly enough that notices and postings are essential in a democratic system, not to mention a virtual one, but maybe that's just me Gwyn, to stay on the topic of my point of order, Soro has ruled that they may have 7 days votes. Move to overturn him - or - live with it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, Arria. I'll suggest that we go by the book. We ask Cindy if she had any requests for 7-day votes. If so, they will be allowed to vote. If not, we'll let the SC sort it out. And yes, that's a motion to stop discussing this, let teh SC do their work, and move on to the next point (if at all) Soro Dagostino: That is the chair's ruling. Cindy Ecksol: ok, kids...mea culpa on this one. I was thinking it was next week, that's whI didny Cindy Ecksol: didn't send notices, etc as usual Rose Springvale: also transcript was posted mid week StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you want I could pretend I'm not here Cindy Ecksol: I did not have any requests for 7 day. Cindy Ecksol: yes...again because I was thinking meeting was next week... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sorry, Jamie, but I don't recognise the Pro Tem LRA's ability to overrule the constitution on this Jamie Palisades: i asked for a second ruling, if no one's going to try to overrule the first one. Soro Dagostino: I just did. Cindy Ecksol: StuiChicanne Darkstone: because had I not been online and wondering why so many RA members were on StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wouldn't be here either Cindy Ecksol: and we can all second if we like.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's the other way round, the LRA has to move a motion to change the law Jamie Palisades chuckles. Gwyn! MOVE to overrule him then ") Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Jamie, Micael Khandr: Does Joquin's request for 7-day stand, as he had to leave for a scheduled cioncert? Gwyneth Llewelyn: HE has to move to change the law Micael Khandr: concert Cindy Ecksol: move that we allow 7 day votes from all memebers fo rthis meeting Micael Khandr: second Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thanks Cindy StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY FOR CARO ! Micael Khandr: I said second--clearly . . . Keila Forager: that is only fair Soro Dagostino: The motion is in order. Micael Khandr: Did I mentioned that I seconded that . . . Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Micael Jamie Palisades sits on his other point of order, waitingfor the first to resolve Keila Forager: or it seems you are more concerned with rules than the citizens StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's only fair that if a meeting is called and it is not communicated by the usual method that those not present be asked if they would like 7 day votes Soro Dagostino: Those who seek to speak, please raise your hand. Soro Dagostino: There is a motion pending/ StuiChicanne Darkstone: otherwise they are not able to represent the people Micael Khandr: Raises hand Soro Dagostino: Mic you have the floor. StuiChicanne Darkstone: *raises both hands* Soro Dagostino: Micael? Micael Khandr: TY, Soro--simple point: lots of confusion here about whether or not there was a meeting--some people were absent. This seems like a good reason for an exception to the way 7-day votes are usually done. Thank you Cindy for the motion, I support it. Micael Khandr: Done Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* Soro Dagostino: Stui? Soro Dagostino: You have the floor. Soro Dagostino: Gwyn next Soro Dagostino: Stui? StuiChicanne Darkstone: [9:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Micael Khandr ! [9:11] Khandr: Stui! Are you coming to the RA? [9:11] Darkstone: oh when is it ? [9:11] Khandr: Now . . . [9:11] Darkstone: *LOL* [9:11] Darkstone: no one told me [9:12] Khandr: It si the one we decided we wanted last week as an extra one to talk factions--but Cindy isn't here, and I don't think there was an announcement. [9:12] Darkstone: ah ha StuiChicanne Darkstone: just to clarify my lack of knowledge with documentary evidence Pip Torok: Arria Perreault: Stui, you asked for this meeting StuiChicanne Darkstone: thankyou Mr One for Soro StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did Sonja Strom: lol StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I did not realise we agreed to it Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Rose Springvale: we often plan meetings and change the times when peole have gone to look at calendars. NO one put it on the calendar StuiChicanne Darkstone: owing to the rather chaotic nature of the end of the meeting Jamie Palisades: any chance of a vote on the 7 day motion? Arria Perreault: we have set it at the last meeting and you did insist a lot Micael Khandr: call the question StuiChicanne Darkstone: plus I never said I was not human and capable of a mistake or oversight Arria Perreault: A LOT StuiChicanne Darkstone: of which this is one Arria Perreault: I am sure everyone can read this in the transcript Micael Khandr: You are not human? Rose Springvale: loves this ... you are afraid of the rest of the RA? StuiChicanne Darkstone: I did insist Soro Dagostino: Bangs Gavel StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rose Springvale: its a constitutional question you voted in favor of! Micael Khandr: Sorry . . . StuiChicanne Darkstone: admittedly Arria Perreault: yes, you did and we gave you reason Soro Dagostino: There has been a call of the question. Pip Torok: move to vote (please/:) Soro Dagostino: All in favor? Micael Khandr: second Micael Khandr: Aye Pip Torok: aye StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't debate that I insisted - I say that I was not sure that the meeting was effectively upheld Gwyneth Llewelyn didn't have a chance to talk, but ok, I'll vote "aye" StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye ! Micael Khandr: Oh, sorry Gwyn . . . Arria Perreault: abstains Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it was just a technicality anyway, Micael) Soro Dagostino: Sonja? Cindy Ecksol: aye Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye. Soro Dagostino: Any opposed? Sonja Strom: I'm sorry, I am not sure what the question is. Soro Dagostino: To permit 7 day votes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: [11:15] Cindy Ecksol: move that we allow 7 day votes from all memebers fo rthis meeting Sonja Strom: for this one meeting? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, for this one. Sonja Strom: I vote aye Soro Dagostino: Motion carries. Micael Khandr: Thank you, Soro Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn? Pip Torok: so move Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds Micael Khandr: By any chance, is this the last RA meeting of this term . . ? Pip Torok: it is mic Jamie Palisades: unless one is called Soro Dagostino: I think so. Jamie Palisades shudders Micael Khandr: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hopefully, *properly* called Soro Dagostino: All in favor of adournment? Gwyneth Llewelyn will love to see what the SC will make out of this Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on adjournment Pip Torok: aye Micael Khandr: aye yi yae Arria Perreault: aye Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye. Soro Dagostino: Meeting adjourned. Sonja Strom: aye Rose Springvale: Thank you to the RA Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody! Rose Springvale: it has been a strange term, but your service is appreciated! Gwyneth Llewelyn grins Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose! Jamie Palisades smiles. Thank you to all for your service this term. I request notice of any appeals to the SC of today's actions. Just so we're all clear. The next RA can do whatever it likes. And I will post to the forums, on whatever I find out about election admin issues, if the SC doesn't. Rose Springvale: i'm serious! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you mean, stranger than usual? StuiChicanne Darkstone: Strange is me Micael Khandr: Thanks to Soro and to Cindy Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* Cindy Ecksol: don't you mean "no thanks to soro and cindy?" Cindy Ecksol: lol! Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft StuiChicanne Darkstone: *bangs gavel StuiChicanne Darkstone: *bangs gavel* Rose Springvale: see you all at the meet and greet next week, if you have time constraints .. please let me know, i'll schedule something as friendly as we can get otherwise Arria Perreault: Thank you for the Executive Team for the work that has been done, even it was strange Jamie Palisades: No, CIndy, we try to be grateful for everyone's contributions in a volunteer organization. Keila Forager: What meet and greet?? Arria Perreault: sometimes Sonja Strom: Rose, when will that be? Jamie Palisades chuckles Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Arria ? yes, indeed, we should have voted on official thanks to the Exec this year! Gwyneth Llewelyn: *ter, Gwyneth Llewelyn: *term Micael Khandr: Adios, all--I want to see what RL looks like today . . . Keila Forager: Anyone who volunteers get my thanks )) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cold, I bet, Micael StuiChicanne Darkstone: cold in Britain Keila Forager: And in Texas Gwyneth Llewelyn is freezing more inside her home than outside Gwyneth Llewelyn: StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are disappearing under snow Arria Perreault: Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol at the toilet paper!!!!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: that is soooo cool! Gwyneth Llewelyn just has a tomato launcher Tor Karlsvalt: -12c in chicago Gwyneth Llewelyn: brrr Tor Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Kamilah ))) Rose Springvale: kami lol please come to all our meetings! Arria Perreault: so SEED will exists only 6 months ? Rose Springvale: no Rose Springvale: seed is a faction now Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no Arria ? factions were not abolished! Arria Perreault: I Know StuiChicanne Darkstone: SEED * ! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose Springvale: seed self abolishes when it s mission is accomplishe Arria Perreault: it was presented as a faction against factions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. Rose Springvale: it has 7 candidates for this term Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that's popular on all serious democracies.... e.g. Anarchist Parties and the like Rose Springvale: all who should be elected. Rose Springvale: because they are all GREAT candidates Jamie Palisades: Good luck with your Arosa project, Sonja. Those posters are gorgeous. Keila Forager: You're biased rose, but right Arria Perreault: we wait for the list Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have good fashion sense too Rose Springvale: list has been delivered to the SC Keila Forager: Arosa is right next door to me too Jamie Jamie Palisades: Rose and I have not has as good luck with promotional art contributions as Arosa has Jamie Palisades: It's good to have creative volunteers .. Soro Dagostino: See you all, RL calls. Jamie Palisades chuckles Rose Springvale: but they are Stui, Caro, Joaquin,Soro, Keila, Lilith, Sterling Jamie Palisades: Thanks again Soro Keila Forager: Bye Soro Arria Perreault: bye Soro Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for chairing today, Soro Soro Dagostino: Now to extract all the arrows. Soro Dagostino: Soro Dagostino: Bye all! Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps what most people don't realise, Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that we all at the CDS disagree a lot with each other, Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is GOOD in a democracy Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and we're still here to tell the story Keila Forager: Yes, but so is change ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! Kamilah Hauptmann: Still favorable to a dictatorship, speaking as a dictator. Jamie Palisades: still here - people forget what a rarity in SL a 5 year institution is Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kamilah Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're right, Jamie! Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do have something special and precious, even if it's small.... Keila Forager: Very true Jamie Palisades: Kami, we will never know, until the day Des retires or goes Ulrika on us Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, the interesting thing is that popular bloggers have stopped to announce the premature death of the CDS Jamie Palisades: or packs up for Blue Moon, of course Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie Gwyneth Llewelyn: Riiight Jamie Palisades: heh heh Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's more likely to happen The meeting closed at 11:39 Linden time.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 3 January 2010

RA Meeting 3 January 2010: Transcript
by Cindy Ecksol » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:07 pm
Meeting on 2010-01-03
Those present:
Cindy Ecksol is in the chair.
Cindy Ecksol: agenda is in the amphora as usual….with an extra item as a result of yesterday’s SC meeting
Cindy Ecksol: so take a look while we have time
Pip Torok:
Joaquin Gustav: happy new year all
Cindy Ecksol: happy new year joa!
Micael Khandr: Happy New Year!
Pip Torok: and to you Micael!
Rose Springvale: HI everyone. sorry, finishing ims here
Pip Torok: and to you Joaquin
Pip Torok: hi Rose
Micael Khandr has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Micael Khandr: Just me
Micael Khandr: TY
Pip Torok: hi Soro /… Happy New Year
Rose Springvale: in im micael lol
Rose Springvale: brb
Micael Khandr: Thanks for the IM–I didn’t want to feel left out . . .
Pip Torok: brb
Soro Dagostino: Hello all — Happy New Year.
Cindy Ecksol: hello!
Cindy Ecksol: and happy new year.
Cindy Ecksol: please touch the recorder to indicate consent
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Joaquin Gustav has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: and agenda is in the amphora
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
Soro Dagostino: brb — warming my coffeee
Cindy Ecksol checks to make sure her coffee is hot
Sonja Strom: hello everybody
Pip Torok: hi Sonja
Micael Khandr: brb . . looking for black tar heroin . . .
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Cindy Ecksol: still waiting for a few….
Cindy Ecksol: please take a look at the agenda while we are waiting — new item there and a link to the relevant posting from the SC meeting yesterday
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn and caro are on their way so we’ll wait for them and then get started
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all :=
Cindy Ecksol: hi gwyn, caro…
Joaquin Gustav: hello
Cindy Ecksol: agenda in the amphora, please touch the recorder and we’ll get started
Carolyn Saarinen: Salaam aleikum
Carolyn Saarinen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn waits patiently for the recorcer to rez
Cindy Ecksol:
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… found it
Cindy Ecksol: not too bad this morning thank goodness….
Pip Torok: hi Gwyn, caro
Cindy Ecksol: all right…agenda….
Rose Springvale: morning Sterling
Sterling Troughton: morning
Cindy Ecksol: you’ll notice that I’ve added an item under “new business” at the request of SC
Cindy Ecksol: not sure it’s necessary for RA to vote, but they’ve asked us to do so anyway.
Cindy Ecksol: if no objections I’d like to take that one on right after reports
Cindy Ecksol: or maybe before reports if Jamie and Stui are late
Cindy Ecksol waits to hear objectsion or any other modifications to agenda
Soro Dagostino: Move approval
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds.
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
Pip Torok: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Micael Khandr: aye
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn goes to get some hot coffee, give me just a second (and apologies in advance hehe )
Cindy Ecksol: any opposed?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Cindy Ecksol: ok, great…
Cindy Ecksol: moment….checking for 7 day votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and back, I’m very sorry !)
Cindy Ecksol: ok, no requested 7 day votes.
Cindy Ecksol: I see that jamie is not here, nor stui, so with your permission….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (permission granted! haha )
Cindy Ecksol: would like to discuss new bsiness
Cindy Ecksol:
Cindy Ecksol: has everyone lhad a chance to check the link?
Pip Torok: not yet
Rose Springvale: hi stui
Cindy Ecksol: ok, please do so now…..
Cindy Ecksol: ah, stui!
Carolyn Saarinen: which link Cindy?
Cindy Ecksol: on the agenda notecard Caro….under new businesss
Pip Torok: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2630#p14029 )
Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2579#p14087
Cindy Ecksol: there we go…
Micael Khandr: Question, Cindy. How is this new business related to the old business of changing the faction rule?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: There’s no need to stand up the Queen has arrived !
Cindy Ecksol: it’s not Micael….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: evening !
Carolyn Saarinen: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: Stui, we temporarily skipped your Commerce Commission report, but will come backk to it after this item
Micael Khandr: So we could affirm what SC wants, and still change the faction rule?
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles and waves at Stui
StuiChicanne Darkstone has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: whoops…lost Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, Micael…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (or rather, I actually hope so!)
Micael Khandr: For this comig election?
Micael Khandr: coming
Pip Torok: have we a total number of voting citizens?
Cindy Ecksol: ah….well, that would be controversial.
Micael Khandr: Really? Sounds attractive . .
Carolyn Saarinen: We must have if Faction size has been set
Cindy Ecksol: wel,m let’s do this first…then discuss the faction amendment, ok?
Micael Khandr: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds our LRA on the correct order of discussing things
StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t anyone light the torches or the christmas brussel sprouts will sent me into orbit
Pip Torok: lol
Micael Khandr: Anyone have a match?
Cindy Ecksol: ok, so the essence is that SC has proposed to move the faction cert and candidate cert deadlines to next week, leaving the campaign at the same lenght and election date unchanged
Cindy Ecksol: any discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: technically, it’s always the RA that sets dates, and the SC validates them…
Gwyneth Llewelyn shuts up and hears Rose first
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, SL decided to toss me.
Rose Springvale: no, you have priority, i’m just in line for after RA
Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn, you have the floor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, it’s just a trifle really. For all the reasons that we know and them so, I actually welcome the suggestion to move the elections to the suggested date,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I definitely move a motion to approve the new dates (after discussion)
Pip Torok notes that the SC made it a _suggestion_ …
Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I’m aware that this in no way will interfere with the rest of discussion thanks. And sorry Rose! (Happy new Year btw lol )
StuiChicanne Darkstone: HAPPY STU YEAR !
Cindy Ecksol: we’ll need asecond to Gwyn’s motion too…anyone?
Pip Torok: second
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Cindy Ecksol: any other thoughts/comments before I recognize rose?
Cindy Ecksol: ok, rose you have the floor
Rose Springvale: Thank you. Despite the language in the post regarding proper census information, i’d just like to point out that the citizen census is determined with respect to the election date
Rose Springvale: so that my reading changes the census to the people owning land in CDS as of i believe, december 27
Cindy Ecksol: hmmmm…..
Cindy Ecksol: good point.
Rose Springvale: so that while i don’t think it will make a significant difference, the numbers will change somewhat
Rose Springvale: perhaps 3 or 4 more citizens.
Cindy Ecksol: SC certified the census at 121.
Cindy Ecksol: 3 or 4 more would not change faction size…
Cindy Ecksol: but would change who can vote potentially.
Cindy Ecksol: oh…wait….
Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders if we ought to have an emergency census…
Rose Springvale: unfortunately, no transcript was posted so it’s impossible for those of us not able to attend meetings on such short notice, or any of the AA peopel who got no notice, to see what the rationale was
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: well, transcript was taken….not sure why not posted.
Cindy Ecksol: I was there, but this particular issue was not brought up.
Pip Torok didnt know the time of the SC meeting
Rose Springvale: just saying, if you are going to change constitutional requirements, adequate notice and reporting would seem appropriate
Cindy Ecksol: I believe the thought was that all dates were relative to the start of the new term, so since the new term date had not changed, no need to change any other dates
Soro Dagostino: I didn’t either — but it was in the header of the note.
Rose Springvale: again, only posted to CDS.
Carolyn Saarinen: propose we execute the SC for counter-revolutionary thouight!
Cindy Ecksol: yes!
Cindy Ecksol: uh…no….
Cindy Ecksol: never mind….
Carolyn Saarinen: too late!
Rose Springvale: i have a guillotine…
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Micael Khandr: requires a second . .
Cindy Ecksol: are you seconding, micael?
Micael Khandr: No, I’m non-violent
Carolyn Saarinen: c’mon you know you want to
Cindy Ecksol: oh, good….
Cindy Ecksol: all right, back to business….
Gwyneth Llewelyn is so sorry to have missed that
Cindy Ecksol: I’m thinking that we can approve change of faction cert and candidate cert and then go back to SC and ask for clarification on residency status
Carolyn Saarinen mutters never get anything useful passed here
Cindy Ecksol: any other thoughts?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: well if it makes everyone feel better… I was supervising making soup in RL… and only just averted disaster of the most crisped up turkey I have ever seen in my life… I didn’t know you could make turkey look like bacon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Micael Khandr: Thanks for sharing, Stui . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Pip Torok: HA!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I personally second Cindy’s thoughts.
Cindy Ecksol: AND….back to business….are we ready to vote on this?
Cindy Ecksol: I need a motion to conclude discussion…..hint hint
Micael Khandr: Call the vote
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Carolyn Saarinen: so moved
Soro Dagostino: Stiu, sprinkle it wiith garlic and spread it on toast.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you .
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of moving cert dates for factions and candidates to Jan 8 and election start to Jan 23 say “aye”
Carolyn Saarinen: Or, Stui, put it in a pot with tomatoes, that renders anything edible
Cindy Ecksol: opposed say “nay”
Pip Torok: aye
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Micael Khandr: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: and arria?
Arria Perreault: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There
Cindy Ecksol: ok, motion carries unanimously.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: woot
Cindy Ecksol: I will bring the question of voter eligiblity back to Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Okies.
Cindy Ecksol: hopefully we can clear that up before next Friday
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully
Cindy Ecksol: moving on….stui, do you have a report on Commerce Commission?
Cindy Ecksol pokes stui with a turkey drumstick
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am afraid due to holiday scheduling and putting stuffing into once living hand puppets we have not had progress but this is 2010 and Rosy and I shall be having a tete a tete for a schedule to be confirmed
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m super efficient now
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks….
Cindy Ecksol: ok, old business.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Pip Torok says hello to the new up-to-date model!
Cindy Ecksol: we had tabled discussion of the faction eleimination amendment last time….
Cindy Ecksol: so we’re in “discussion” phase.
Micael Khandr: If I may . . .
Cindy Ecksol: sure, micael….
Micael Khandr: The fact that there has been trouble getting enrollment to qualify more than two factions is an indication that the “people” do not want factions as presently organized.
Micael Khandr: I think we should eliminate them now–for this coming election.
Micael Khandr: Done
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Pip Torok
Cindy Ecksol: Pip, you have the floor
Cindy Ecksol: Pip?
Pip Torok: i believe the the apathy is just that … apathey and has no connection to the existence of factions … those who care have always known that we are faction-based and not “mp” based
Pip Torok: done
Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Patroklus Murakami
Cindy Ecksol: Pat, you have a comment?
Micael Khandr: I care . .
Micael Khandr:
Patroklus Murakami: my comment is similar to pip’s. i think that it indicates the lack of interest in being on the RA rather than a faction problem per se
Patroklus Murakami: i think the question of whehter ppl wnat factions or not should be tested by the ballot box
Carolyn Saarinen sniggers
Patroklus Murakami: let an ‘anti-faction faction’ stand and see if that’s what ppl want
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
Cindy Ecksol: thanks….
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I sort of did a few comments on this subject…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, I’ve promised a certain member at teh RA, who shall remain unnamed,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that I would give some thoughts about it ? about not only the incoming elections,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but what Pip so correctly alluded: a certain “apathy” coming from a few of the citizens,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which makes them less engaging in teh CDS ? in its community; in its political live
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… you know that I’ve been a keen defender of the faction system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For one practical reason,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still think that people ought to vote on ideas, projects
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … because people come and go
Pip Torok: one way out wd be to notecard each factionless citizen inviting them to join _some_ faction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s very rare, for instance, that we get a full quorum on the RA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in spite of being less than a dozen!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The faction system was created,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: taking this into account,
Carolyn Saarinen: quorum oOR full? not the same thing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and assuming that if you vote for an idea,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (full)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the idea is carried along, even if a “person” that you happen to like on the faction is not there,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this has been what I’ve been defending… since 2004.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BUT…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Things change
Pip Torok wonders in what way it has changed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie has commented (perhaps rightfully so) that citizens see the “factions” as a way to “power struggle”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I might claim otherwise; factions struggle to *exist* these days hehe )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But what the citizens perceive can also be important ? remember Caeser’s wife
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The proposed change,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would not “eliminate” factions,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the sense of making them illegal or something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we will still have the right to assemble
Micael Khandr: True
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The CSDF, for instance, will still meet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and publish a manifesto
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and list their candidaes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hold open sessions and so on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: others, who now feel threatened by the faction system,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or plainly dislike it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would be allowed to become candidates on their own.
Carolyn Saarinen puts on ThinkPol titile
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Micael Khandr: Cough
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… this is teh positive aspect of the change.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It will allow whoever prefers to vote/be elected by a “faction” ? to continue to do so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It will at the same time,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: allow those that dislike factions,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to both be elected and vote on individuals as well.
Micael Khandr: Well spoken.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now I just ahve ONE problem…
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and then I promise to shut up!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happens if the person we voted for,
Cindy Ecksol extends the clock for gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after, say, a month,
Pip Torok wonders how many actively dislike the idea of factions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is forced to leave?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we can answer that question, I’ll be happy to let this proposed change pass.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks gwyn
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Micael Khandr
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, we do have a question: “the next in place in the faction list will replace; if there aren’t any left, new elections”
Micael Khandr: How do you mean “forced”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need an easy, obvioous method to do the same
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for single candidates
Cindy Ecksol: finished, gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: without giving teh citizens this idea that their vote is “lost” or placed on someone else they dislike.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’m finoshed, and I do apologise.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks….
Cindy Ecksol: micael, you have the floor
Micael Khandr: Actually, my comments were already articulated by Gwyen.
Micael Khandr: So I’m OK
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks….
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
Cindy Ecksol: stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Factions lead to a gang mentality and are surely a source of restriction of individual independent thought and opinion and I am sure there are none of us here present that are incapable of holding our own opinions surely ? We can work together without specifying a division or a collective view, I rather believe that this is a more progressive thought (think of Blake and his attitude towards collective worship and think of the value of your own personal thought) I for one could not be accused of towing a party line. why would anyone else care to ?
Cindy Ecksol: whew!!
Cindy Ecksol: that was quick…
Micael Khandr: Tell us how you really feel, Stui . . .
StuiChicanne Darkstone:
Gwyneth Llewelyn feels embarassed after Stui’s condensed answer…
Cindy Ecksol: finished stui?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am not often accused of being shy
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am Cindy and I take a bow
Cindy Ecksol: thanks….
Carolyn Saarinen: Hey preparation is good
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Pip Torok finds that food for thought
StuiChicanne Darkstone: (no sneaking a look at my posterior plz_
Rose Springvale: thanks, can you skip me for a moment, dealing with rl.
Cindy Ecksol: ok…
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Keila Forager
Cindy Ecksol: keila?
Keila Forager: Hi, thanks
Keila Forager: As a relatively new citizen, I don’t really think that it’s as much apathy for not having more citizens join factions as it is lack of information..
Keila Forager: I had one person approach me when I became a citizen..
Keila Forager: about factions
Keila Forager: and to find the information on my own was a struggle and I only perserved because I wan’ted to know what was going on in CDS..
Carolyn Saarinen: sounds familiar
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sounds scary!)
Keila Forager: As for factions, just what I was reading, I’m inclined to not join one as they pretty much all say the same thing and if I have to vote for a faction as opposed to a person , I probably won’t..
Keila Forager: I don’t vote parties in RL and would be opposed to it here..
Carolyn Saarinen: again, deja vu
Micael Khandr: Clap, clap
Keila Forager: how many citizens really come to meetings and understand??
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Cindy Ecksol: I could ask the same question in RL
Keila Forager: and notice for all meetings events , isn’t really enough time to make plans…
Keila Forager: done..or we will be here until next meeting…I seem to have lots to say
Keila Forager smiles
Micael Khandr: TY Keila
Cindy Ecksol: thanks keila
Cindy Ecksol: rose are you back with us?
Rose Springvale: yes
Rose Springvale: one sec
Rose Springvale: ok
Carolyn Saarinen: just hit the kid!
Rose Springvale: First i take issue that 2/3 of our citizens as apathetic? i don’t think so. our citizens are passionate and involved.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
Micael Khandr: Or put in tomato sauce . . .
Cindy Ecksol raises her eyebrows
Rose Springvale: Factions are fractious. My experiences is that they are ineffective.. representatives don’t necessarily follow the philosophy, nor do they ‘represent’
So it becomes a system that maintains the status quo. RA is hard to learn, people don’t understand
Rose Springvale: philosophy and projects ARE a good basis for organizing into voting blocks, but the faction system actually discourages this… i may agree with the CSDF on one issue, and DPU on another, if i’m a rep, i should be following the wishes of my faction! not my philosophy
Pip Torok wonders whether nonfactions are less fractious
Rose Springvale: as for replacements.. the next in line in the list.. eliminate faction and you have your replacement policy…. the lost vote/placed on someone they dislike issue is what we have now!
Micael Khandr: Well spoken, Rose
Rose Springvale: i dont’ think having an election to elect an unfaction makes sense
Rose Springvale: just more division
Rose Springvale: and does what we have our biggest problem with… stalls a decision
Rose Springvale: I encourage you to be bold
Rose Springvale: done
Rose Springvale: give ALL our citizens a voice.
Micael Khandr: clap, clap
Keila Forager: Yes
Cindy Ecksol: thanks, rose.
Cindy Ecksol: ./100 next
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Cindy Ecksol
Cindy Ecksol: ah…that’s me
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
Cindy Ecksol: and I DO have some things to say about this even though I’ve said little to this pointe
Cindy Ecksol: first, I agree with those who have pointed out that we are in the midst of an apathetic revolution, not a disklike of factions
Cindy Ecksol: Kelia pointed out that we do not encourage faction membership…
Cindy Ecksol: that we do not publish meetings inadvance….
Cindy Ecksol: and that most people dont’ show up for meetings or get involved with the forums
Cindy Ecksol: I agree: it’s about apathy, not about dislike of factions.
Cindy Ecksol: So I don’t see the faction system as broken per se….
Cindy Ecksol: merely underutilized
Cindy Ecksol: having said that, I also agree with Rose: all too often factions have been a force for creating contention and delaying decisions
Cindy Ecksol: I don’t like that….but I think it’ smore related to apathy than to a failure of the sytem.
Cindy Ecksol: Third, I do not think that our current system is iappropriate for the “real world”….but as Gwyn pointed out, given the fact that we are living “second lives” here, not our “real lives” I think it may be an appropriate system for THIS community
Cindy Ecksol: specifically I think she’s right about the fact that it deals most effectively with the question of how we keep RA seats active
Cindy Ecksol: Finally, Rose challenged us to be “bold”
Cindy Ecksol: b ut there ISZ such a thing as “too bold”…and we call that “reckless”
Cindy Ecksol: it OUGHT to take a long time to change the constitution….and this is really only the second time we have discussed this issue in any coordinated community fashion
Cindy Ecksol: I would also point out that there’s another way to be “bold” in this situation.
Jamie Palisades: Bravely do nothing?
Cindy Ecksol: as Pat proposed, perhaps it is Boldest for us to allow the people to speak.
Cindy Ecksol: no, Jamie.
Cindy Ecksol: that’s not what it’s about.
Cindy Ecksol: there are many who believe that “the people” want this amendment
Keila Forager: Are you sure you want us speaking…LOL
Cindy Ecksol: but I don’t see 121 residents in this room….nor involved in discussions about it.
Carolyn Saarinen: Nor will you
Cindy Ecksol: no, I don’t think I will Caro….
Keila Forager: Because most don’t know about the meetings..
Cindy Ecksol: but they SHOULD have a voice….
Cindy Ecksol: that voice is the election.
Rose Springvale: then delay this election, which you have done already, which btw changes the constitution, and take a referendum.
Cindy Ecksol: those who are interested in this amendment now have the opport5unity to appeal to the population.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Apathy if it is there, and can be seen to be in existence, is often as a silent protest and as a result of lacking relevance within a political system or community. Also Apathy can be worsened by being acknowledged as it becomes almost like a contagious trend, “why should I bother if the rest are not?” if we are to recognise a state of apathy then we would be best advised to make changes to see if we can affect a reinvigoration, rather than simply making an excuse of its source and using it as a provocation to continue as we have previously. Interest is engendered by freshness not staleness, if we so treasure the stale environment, are we going to spring clean this year or learn to love the cobwebs? Laziness is not apathy, fear of change is not apathy, but being completely disinterested in the merits of action, that is apathy.
Carolyn Saarinen: ‘Representative’ Assembly. clue’s in the name
Cindy Ecksol: get out there, form a faction, create a platform, and solicit votes
Cindy Ecksol: that’s what “democracy” is all about — it’s “activist” not “pacifist.”
Cindy Ecksol: get out ther and campaign for what you believe in.
Cindy Ecksol: the RA is not the proper place to argue this out….elections are.
Cindy Ecksol: finished.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Pip Torok
Cindy Ecksol: Pip?
Pip Torok: a word for thre faction system … speaking personally i find that an RA’s impulse to forwrd rash proposals can be checked by second opinions from colleagues in the faction ….
Pip Torok: done
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue:
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn? briefly, please
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or quickly lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wish to add that it’s not fair to assume that factions are more “disruptive” than individuals. At least if you have 3 factions on the RA; you have 3 different points of view, and that means you just need to reconcile three different visions. Once we get 11 individuals, we have 11 points of view to reconcile, and the struggle will be WAY harder, not easier Thus, decisions will take WAY longer to reach, not less time. But… personally, I’m willing to give the proposed system a try, since I might be completely wrong in my perceptions. The second point, however, is far more important for me to clarify. Rose, you said, “if someone leaves the RA, we just put the next in line”. How is that a guarantee that the representatives elected are actually the will of the people who voted on them. By this I mean that people that did NOT get enough votes (e.g. not ‘liked’ enough by the citizens to actually become reps) might be catapulted into the RA ? against the *vast majority* of the votes,
Sonja Strom: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since the vast majority, well, will have elected the original RA members, not the “replacements”. Such a system, which allows people to become representative even though nobody voted (enough) on them, cannot be called a representative democracy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Just remember that the entity that represents citizens at the RA right now is the abstract notion of a “faction”, which can summarised as “a group of people sharing the same ideas”)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, there are methods to deal with this. One, as suggested, is that every citizen will vote on “replacements” as well ? at the ballot, they’d vote, say, for 2 candidates for each of the 11 seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But as you see, we still have a few things to sort out first,
Cindy Ecksol nods in agreement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I don’t think we should just blindly pass this resolution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and get the next elections right now with the new system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: without asking the people first!
Sterling Troughton: We could try an auction
Keila Forager: LOL
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’ll certainly move to add that question (change of system to Jamie’s proposed model) as a referendum on the upcoming elections. Done, thanks!
Rose Springvale: i’ll respons when it’s my turn
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Carolyn Saarinen: with STV, I don’t see how a second choice could be wholly at odds with voter’s thinking?
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Thanks for taking up this proposal. Which obviously I support. I see that the LRA has time limits this morning – for most people, so I’ll try to be briefer that usual. If you know me, you know that’s a personal challange for me
Jamie Palisades: Three things, and a suggestion.
Jamie Palisades: First, i think we neeed in fairness to ackowledge the rationality of the old system! The original designers wanted an experiment in democracy. But they wanted to use the party-centric model. That was NOT irrational, or stupid. It’s just proved to be a model that does not work well for US. More on that in a moment.
Jamie Palisades: Second, I respectfully disagree with a few RA members here who said that dislike of factions is not a drag on governance participation.
Jamie Palisades: I guess some current RA members might not feel that way – um, because they come from factions
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: (a) Keila just said so, as a newcomer.
Jamie Palisades: (b) So have others who are NOT here at the RA — for obvious reasons. I hear from lots of nonpolitical CDS people who look at our system and opt out — note — not from apathy, but from distaste at the current factious system, which, yes, is fed by factionalization and football club mentality.
Jamie Palisades: look,
Jamie Palisades: I could spin out a list, here, of good constructive people, who left more or less in disgust, but it would be impolite, and in fact, many of you KNOW them already.
Jamie Palisades: evidence #1 for factions not working well for us:
Jamie Palisades: Consider that we had few candidates — and barely had factions! — this year.
Pip Torok is unhappy about hints of partiality
Jamie Palisades: colleguages, face it, your citizens mostly are boycotting the whole system.
Jamie Palisades: pip, if you can explain when I am donem, i will try to respons, and apologize if there’s spomethign I sad that is wrong, but I thikn it;s natural that peopel who were SEATED by any faction system would start out assuming it;s a good system.
Pip Torok: boycotting? or just apathetic? who can actually say?
Callipygian Christensen murmurs that along with those who leave are those who come and observe and don’t bother joining
Jamie Palisades: I leave, Pip, it to you all whether there are people who would participate in a system that was less baroque. That IS the question. I note we have four current RA members who did not come up through the faction system — and might NOT have.
Cindy Ecksol notes that there are those who just don’t like the rough and tumble of politics period…
Carolyn Saarinen NOT seated by a faction system. See the difference?
Jamie Palisades: when it;s unnecessarily rough, yers which factions induce
Jamie Palisades: ahem
Jamie Palisades: let me get that last point out
Gwyneth Llewelyn notes that there are so many who dislike democracy in general, but love our lovely events
Jamie Palisades: Finally, on replacing members. We have HAD by-elections; they worked fine; I remember because I had to moderate the mid-term candidate debate trhat year
Carolyn Saarinen: ‘Our lovely events’ are organised by AA’s Sultana
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Gwyneth Llewelyn would vote for her
Cindy Ecksol would also vote for Rose
Micael Khandr: Is Rose running . . . ?
Jamie Palisades: Ladies & Gents & er, Gywn on your point – you think ANY meetings drive away participation, and see nothing in the faction system that does. With respect, I think faction leaders are not in the best vantage point to see distaste for it. But please, look at the numbers. this term
Carolyn Saarinen: Jihad!
Jamie Palisades: we almost had
Jamie Palisades: no factions
Jamie Palisades: and no candidates
Jamie Palisades: this shouold tell an open minded person something.
Jamie Palisades: Thankis, and done.
Cindy Ecksol scratches her head and wonders if what it shoudl “tell us” is that the SC needs to get its act together certifying the population list by the deadline
Jamie Palisades: heh – naah, not a jihad, just AA’s option to leave again in a few months.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Miss LRA, can I just ask Jamie a question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s pertinent)
Carolyn Saarinen: AA used to have very productive town meetings
Jamie Palisades: Hopefully without scimitars
Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn, I’ll allow it…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and that’s why I’m not against the change; rather, I actually endorse it; just a clarification: are you suggesting that every RA member replacement becomes a by-election? (note: I think it’s a good idea!)
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie if you will permit?
Carolyn Saarinen: then we joined this…system
Cindy Ecksol: I’ll leave you on the floor….
Jamie Palisades: sure, Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: um…not exactly, but you understand
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
Gwyneth Llewelyn repeats: just a clarification: are you suggesting that every RA member replacement becomes a by-election, since it worked fine in the past? (note: I think it’s a good idea!)
Micael Khandr: Cough, cough . . .
Keila Forager: I think that’s a great idea
Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, I think that would be the outcome of the current draft, anD yes,m I thikn it would work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All righty! Thanks… because that might be the only objection I had, to be honest…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, keeping my mind open, I don’t have any *rational* reason left lol
Jamie Palisades: (If the RA did something later to adjust it like, don;t bother filling terms within a month f the elections, well, fine, but that’s the sort of thing with which we fiddle)TED TO DO SOMETHING WITH SHORT V
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lots of emotional ones, though! haha )
Jamie Palisades: (sorry, bad keyboard day) SO what’s the irrational reason?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I sort of pointed it out… unlike Rose, I think we’ll have a totally fragmented RA which will be unmanageable,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 11 points of view to reconcile instead of just 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
Soro Dagostino: Sorry I missed the convo — bad reboot.
Rose Springvale raise hands
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s just speculation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not a valid, rational reason
Jamie Palisades: Unlike today’s RA, or, say, 2007’s? I thought we decided we were ALL socialists 3 meetings ago I could sing the Internationale
Cindy Ecksol: all right…let’s see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I won’t let it interfere ))
Cindy Ecksol: Rose, question for Jamie? I’ll let him keep the floor if so….
Rose Springvale: no comment independent
Cindy Ecksol: ok…then please wait for the queue
Jamie Palisades: Done then, thx
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Patroklus Murakami
Cindy Ecksol: pat?
Rose Springvale: seems like the que doesnt’ apply to everyone
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll pass, i was going to rant about how jamie’s explanation of political apathy is entirely wrong but…. i’ll save it for another day!
Soro Dagostino: It won’t let me talk.
Soro Dagostino: The Que.
Cindy Ecksol: so done pat?
Patroklus Murakami: done
Jamie Palisades: you, me, the pub, after the meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: if so stui I think you’re next
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have already spoken thusly but I think it warrants the indulgence of repetition so indulge me, tis the season for over-indulgence: Apathy if it is there, and can be seen to be in existence, is often as a silent protest and as a result of lacking relevance within a political system or community. Also Apathy can be worsened by being acknowledged as it becomes almost like a contagious trend, “why should I bother if the rest are not?” if we are to recognise a state of apathy then we would be best advised to make changes to see if we can affect a reinvigoration, rather than simply making an excuse of its source and using it as a provocation to continue as we have previously. Interest is engendered by freshness not staleness, if we so treasure the stale environment, are we going to spring clean this year or learn to love the cobwebs? Laziness is not apathy, fear of change is not apathy, but being completely disinterested in the merits of action, that is apathy. BUT AS A NEW OBSERVATION:
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: StuiChicanne Darkstone
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that there is a presently unremarked aread of this discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I definitely agree that the true measure of “apathy” is not allowing things to change at all in search of a solution to apathy ? that is, in a way, one of the primary, rational reasons for agreeing with experimenting with a different model)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: along the lines of if there is an issue completely unrepresented by a factions manifesto but that is close to the heart of the participant citizen… how is he or she to be heard except by allowance of their owning faction ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: done
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could clarify my meaning
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I don’t think it needs to be quite so blunt
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks
StuiChicanne Darkstone: actually I’m gonna hang my hat on it
Cindy Ecksol: three mor ein the queu, and then I think we need to move on.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Keila Forager
Cindy Ecksol: keila?
Keila Forager: A comment about “apathy”. How can it be apathy if the people don’t have the information or have it in a timely manner. That’s just unimformed, not apathy. I’ve read the forums , and portal and have come to meetings. I have only a couple friends in my list from CDS and aside from them, no one has approached me about CDS except for them. They know who they are. How do new citizen’s know about things if someone doesn’t tell them. I knew about the democracy and forums and factions from the time I spent here before becoming a citizen. And I have spent much more time than I should have looking for the information and some is not available or correct , but that is another discussion.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and say think of a gay conservative on thatcher’s bench
Keila Forager: And lastly ( for now ..hehe)…..if RA members have to be part of a faction to be elected, and the majority of citizens are not part of a faction. Who does the RA represent? The factions or or the citizens? To me it sounds like the RA is representing the factions or themselves. How many of you go out and speak to the residents about the issues and their opinions. Unless I speak to one of you, I am the one usually expressing my opinion. That makes me sad..especially since I like living here.
Pip Torok: Fair point, Stui, iyo is it covered by “Citizens’ Concerns” in an agenda?
Keila Forager: that’s it for now..
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they want to come at the end of every meeting yes Pip I believe it could be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Keila
Micael Khandr: clap, clap
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but not exactly satisfactory a solution is it ?
Cindy Ecksol applauds keila
Jamie Palisades smiles.
Gwyneth Llewelyn blames herself for not doing more to keep citizens like Keila informed
Jamie Palisades: Remember when you clap what that tells you about factions
Keila Forager: I can be a pain in the ass when I want to be..LOL
Keila Forager: or a pain in the RA..LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha ? join our faction then
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re certified pains in the asses to everybody
Keila Forager: Read up to my opinion on factions..
Cindy Ecksol: jamie, tells me that factions have been apathetic, not doing the job they should be
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
Cindy Ecksol: oh my!
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Cindy Ecksol: thanks keila….
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Micael Khandr
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks indeed
Pip Torok: Isn’t ANY RA’s primary responsibility to represent _every_ resident of CDS?
Cindy Ecksol: Micael?
Micael Khandr: Thanks, Cindy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (technically, yes, Pip!)
Keila Forager: Yes, Pip, but I don’t see that happening.
Carolyn Saarinen knew that was a smart party invite
Keila Forager:
Micael Khandr: With respect for all of you, I wanted to restate my point.
Jamie Palisades: iuf they talk to anyone outside their faction, yes
Micael Khandr: Unless every decision is brought to a vote of the people, then the RA is here to make decisions on their behalf, after being elected to do so.
People do what they do (as in RL), and elect us to protect the common good in a community (hopefully, like RL as well).
Faction policy ?forces? those of us who do not like factions to work in them?and we have a right to not work in them (without having to create a ?factionless faction?). From my vantage point and perspective, it is oppressive to force me into a faction in order to participate.
Done.
Cindy Ecksol: thanks micael
Micael Khandr: Done
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Rose Springvale
Cindy Ecksol: Rose?
Keila Forager: Do you vote within your faction or how you want?
Cindy Ecksol: (and then we need to move on)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (depends on the faction, Keila)
Rose Springvale: thanks,(and wonders why soro didn’t get qued)
Cindy Ecksol: (he didn’t want to be)
Rose Springvale: Stui’s point is the only reason i ever joined a faction. if you were not in one, your issues never made it to the floor.
Pip Torok: Me.. I vote how I want after a faction’s colleagues 2nd opinion
Rose Springvale: no one is asking to outlaw factions. if they work for you, great.. they will continue and as a group, continue to elect reps. but for the 80+ people who are not factioned… there is a problem. thye joined a democracy. don’t you see there to be some irony there? those who don’t like politics DON”T join CDS!
Rose Springvale: please pip
Rose Springvale: replacements..okay, by elections work, but right now we send the question to factions, (who at best represent a third of our voters,) where 10% or less of our population makes the decision. keep a list of candidates, take the next in line.. maybe so long as they got 10%
Rose Springvale: it truly upsets me to hear you call our citizens apathetic. I know so many things people want to do, care about passionately
Patroklus Murakami wonders what percentage of the population are members of political parties in RL…
Rose Springvale: and they neve seem to get a forum, because frankly, we are working on rules all the time
Micael Khandr: clap, clap
Cindy Ecksol: finished rose?
Carolyn Saarinen: Damn straight
Rose Springvale: i’ll stop. but will note soro said the queue wouldn’t recognize him
Cindy Ecksol: I spoke to soro…he does not wish to queue
Rose Springvale: ok.
Soro Dagostino: Gave up
Rose Springvale: more back room conversations. would like to see this as open forum
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, have you cahnged your mind?
Cindy Ecksol: if so, now’s the time….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I hate queuing but I still have to do it
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Eurodisney would be a farce otherwise
Cindy Ecksol: FYI, since soro was having trouble I offered to queue him after Rose)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: mickey mouse would be a bouncer
Cindy Ecksol: go ahead soro, you have the floor
Soro Dagostino: Still can’t get in.
Cindy Ecksol: rose was going to be last, but you are now in….
Soro Dagostino: Ok.
Soro Dagostino: I believe that we should make a rule that if a citizen does not vote, they are banned from CDS
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro ))
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Rose Springvale: then we need to have an objectors line on th ballot
Patroklus Murakami: /facepalm
Soro Dagostino: That everyone should vote.
Keila Forager: Then you won’t have many left in CDS..LOL
StuiChicanne Darkstone: so CDS becomes a place where you have to log in weekly despite RL committments ?
Soro Dagostino: And factions should be parties.
Sterling Troughton: The USSR got 99%
Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* at the turn of events…
Soro Dagostino: And anyone with 10 nominations ought to be able to rune.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is almost, almost going Godwin here…
Cindy Ecksol: done soro?
Soro Dagostino: yes
Micael Khandr: Call the vote, please.
Cindy Ecksol: if so, I need a motion to end debate….and a second
Soro Dagostino: so move
Micael Khandr: second
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
Cindy Ecksol: I see several queued with discussion?
Cindy Ecksol: do we conclude debate or continue, that’s the question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah… right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I didn’t see the queue
Micael Khandr: Conclude debate–
Cindy Ecksol: ok, all in favor of concluding debate please say “aye”
Jamie Palisades: you have a motion to decide that quetsion and can vote on it …
Cindy Ecksol: all opposed “nay”
Micael Khandr: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: nay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nay (simce there are 3 people on the queue)
Pip Torok: nay
Cindy Ecksol: nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if I abstain will I still be an RA member ?
Cindy Ecksol: yes, stui, you may abstain
Jamie Palisades: only if you join a faction
StuiChicanne Darkstone: or will I be propelled into the metaverse at the earliest opportunity ?
Carolyn Saarinen: aye
Rose Springvale: beheaded
Jamie Palisades: oo we need a machine like that, CIn
Keila Forager: Yes, it’s good
StuiChicanne Darkstone: EJECTOR SEAT !
Cindy Ecksol: ok, arria? joa?
Carolyn Saarinen: ELECTOR SEAT
Cindy Ecksol: right now 3-3-1
Micael Khandr: Wow . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I saw 4 nays
Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:40] Sonja Strom: nay
[10:40] Llewelyn: nay (simce there are 3 people on the queue)
[10:40] Torok: nay
[10:40] Ecksol: nay
Cindy Ecksol: did I miss one?
Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Micael Khandr: Yes–there are 4 nays
Cindy Ecksol: I’m going to allow discussion to continue then.
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Jamie Palisades
Cindy Ecksol: Jamie?
Micael Khandr: Agreed
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I could be awkward and turn my A to a aye *LOL*
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I wouldn’t be that mischievous
StuiChicanne Darkstone: would I ?
Cindy Ecksol: (wouldn’t matter, stui — motion would still fail)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you would haha
Jamie Palisades: right. i want to apologize for being a part of the problem here by bringing this idea late in the term.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: *smirks*
Jamie Palisades: i suspect its timing is part of the issue
Jamie Palisades: still, i felt i need to offer it while I was around and able to do so.
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmmmm ???
Jamie Palisades: however and whenever CDS decides to take it up,
Jamie Palisades: Let me echo Michel and Rose’s very important last point. In CDS non-faction-joiners — the majority of our residents! — are POWERLESS. They can’t even select RA members (factions can freely substitute anyone, even morons or mean people, for the named candidates). It is a CLUB system. Many of its current leaders are nice people. But the MODEL is exclusionary. It should go.
Jamie Palisades: Thanks cheers
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Soro Dagostino
Jamie Palisades: Soro, I;m active this term, just donlt kjnow about next one
Cindy Ecksol: Soro? did you have another comment?
Soro Dagostino: I agree with Jamie
Keila Forager: Me too
Micael Khandr: me three
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Cindy Ecksol: now now, friends…
Patroklus Murakami: it would be simpler just to reduce the number of ppl needed to form a faction to one
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Sonja Strom
Cindy Ecksol: Sonja?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll be a moron next term and break with being serious as I always am
Patroklus Murakami: then they wouldn’t be a club
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (good point, Pat )
Sonja Strom: What is being talked about here would be a fundamental change to the structure of the CDS electoral system.
Jamie Palisades: and any individual would be able to freely substittue a mad dgo for himself?
Soro Dagostino: Great!
Sonja Strom: Although there are aspects of this change I do not like so much,
Sonja Strom: it might be a good idea,
Jamie Palisades: (sorry)
Sonja Strom: and I am taking this change into careful consideration.
Sonja Strom: I have paid close attention to the views of everyone here about it,
Sonja Strom: which I want everybody to know for certain.
Carolyn Saarinen: yes Sonja
Sonja Strom: In theory could support this change in an overall sense,
Sonja Strom: but I am not ready to support putting it into place for the elections this month.
Sonja Strom: I would, however,
Sonja Strom: support putting a question about this change on the ballot this month as a referendum question.
Sonja Strom: Thank you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Cindy Ecksol: thanks
Pip Torok agrees
Question Queue V 1.1: Next in queue: Cindy Ecksol
Cindy Ecksol: OK, that’s me
Cindy Ecksol: I’d just like to say that I too am not completely opposed to changing the system.
Cindy Ecksol: I just don’t think that today is the day to do it.
Cindy Ecksol: let’s use the election process to discuss it….and introduce it early next term
Pip Torok supports Cindy in this
Cindy Ecksol: to facilitate that, can I get a motion to suspend discussion?
Rose Springvale: sigh
Pip Torok: so move
Cindy Ecksol: second?
Jamie Palisades: is that a do-a-referendum vote, cindy? or an indefinite table?
Rose Springvale: of course. self preservation over the good of the community?
Cindy Ecksol: only a “sense of the RA” vote jamie…
Rose Springvale: delay the election then, don’t let this continue
Cindy Ecksol: is there a second to suspend?
Keila Forager: What don’t you send out IM’s or notecards to the citizens and see what they think??
Jamie Palisades: with the effect that the topic is shut down if you vote aye, correct?
Cindy Ecksol: (we still have to decide whether to meet again befor eelection)
Micael Khandr: Where I come from in RL there is an individual who undermines the common good by getting referendums on the ballot?doing away with certain taxes that support education, etc.
Referendums are not what we are about?a ?representative? assembly is.
We need to do our work as representativers.
Done
StuiChicanne Darkstone: am I right in thinking we’d have to suffer factions for another full term?
Cindy Ecksol: yes, stui…if we suspend today and do not vote next time.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: or would we have to rely upon the dissolution of the RA being voted thru ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and then everything being re-elected
Cindy Ecksol: or if we vote today but odify the proposal to apply next election
StuiChicanne Darkstone: seems a long winded approach
Cindy Ecksol: as I commented earlier, there IS such a thing as too much haste
Micael Khandr: You have no second to suspend.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we not schedule extra meetings ?
Cindy Ecksol: no, no second…
Jamie Palisades smiles. Ladies and Gentlemen, you do hot have the votes to pass the motion today. Especially with Cindy switching . You might try to see if you can agree on whether to put it on the ballot as referenda
StuiChicanne Darkstone: rather than delay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: be proactve
Cindy Ecksol: a motion to terminate discussion?
Rose Springvale: but then, what would the faction want? have they been polled?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I pass a motion to schedule more meetings
StuiChicanne Darkstone: to discuss this
Cindy Ecksol: (we’re really short on time)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that, Stui!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: more meetings
Cindy Ecksol: one thing at a time…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want more meetings
Cindy Ecksol: if you want to have another meeting, we’ll deal with that next
Cindy Ecksol: right now I need Pp’s motion withdrawn….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it relates directly
Cindy Ecksol: and a motion to terminate THIS discussion on amendment
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can hold more meetings and resolve it this way
Pip Torok: i withdraw the motion
Cindy Ecksol: stui, if you believe that then move to suspend discussion NOW and then when that’s approved you can move to schedule another meeting
StuiChicanne Darkstone: everyone up for more meetings ?
Carolyn Saarinen looks around in bewilderment
Pip Torok: i am Stui
Cindy Ecksol: !!
Cindy Ecksol bangs gavel
Arria Perreault: I am too
Cindy Ecksol: STUI!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: you know you are dying to see me again
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: IF you want to have another meeting, please move to suspend discussion now…and someone needs to second
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but this is part of the discussion
Cindy Ecksol: THEN move to schedule another meeting…and someone needs to second
Arria Perreault: there was a second
StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my eyes
Micael Khandr: who?
Cindy Ecksol: ok….
Arria Perreault: Gwyn
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I do not see the necessity to suspend
Cindy Ecksol: Pip, can I have your motion to suspend again please?
Arria Perreault: I am ready to second too
StuiChicanne Darkstone: when this suggestion is related to the open discussion
Carolyn Saarinen: I did something bad in another life, I’m trapped here forever..
Pip Torok: i propose to suspen the discussion
StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is a way of resolving the issue
Cindy Ecksol: Stui, if we don’t suspend, we need to terminate discussion and vote up or down
Cindy Ecksol: if you want to continue discussion, need to suspend
StuiChicanne Darkstone: but
Cindy Ecksol: no buts!
Cindy Ecksol: let’s do it!
StuiChicanne Darkstone: what about more meetings ?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I always have a but
Micael Khandr: big one
Cindy Ecksol: yes, mor emeetings if we suspend and majority agrees!
Rose Springvale: move to amend th motion to suspend to have it suspend until… then pick a date
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sometimes with two TT
Cindy Ecksol: (and I think they do)
Cindy Ecksol: so let’s do it….
Sterling Troughton: second
Rose Springvale: lol
Jamie Palisades: (no guarantee STui, our LRA has asked to freeze the topic before agreeing to more meetings)
Cindy Ecksol: motion to suspend discussion please?
Rose Springvale: sterling, we dont’ get to vote or move. but hey, its a free for all …
Cindy Ecksol: OR motion to conclude discussion….
StuiChicanne Darkstone: people on the RA are interested in more meetings
Cindy Ecksol: either one is fine with me about now…
Jamie Palisades: you’ve had, ah, three of such motions ::)
Cindy Ecksol: no, Pip withdrew.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: so we should schedule more meetings
Rose Springvale: he offered the motion again
StuiChicanne Darkstone: as we are all here
Cindy Ecksol: other motions are not proper until we suspend or vote
Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
Mikelo Serevi: I don’t see what the rush is anyway
Cindy Ecksol: ok, Second for Pip’s motion to suspend please?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine in seconding it.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you!
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Jamie Palisades: 2 then he re-moved at 10:55
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of suspending?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sure…
Pip Torok: aye
Cindy Ecksol: say Aye, opposed say nay
Micael Khandr: nay
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: nay
StuiChicanne Darkstone: NAY
Sonja Strom: aye
Joaquin Gustav: nay
Arria Perreault: abstains
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want more meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the next motion…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4-4-1?
Cindy Ecksol: I get 4-4-1 right now…..motion to suspend fails
StuiChicanne Darkstone: the process here sometimes amazes me
Patroklus Murakami sympathises with the LRA
Cindy Ecksol: ok, kids…motion to CLOSE DISCUSSION AND VOTE please!
Carolyn Saarinen: aye, since we seem bogged down in protocol. Why don’t these meetings DO anything anymore
Keila Forager: amazing isn’t the word..LOL
Cindy Ecksol: sigh…
Keila Forager: cartoonish is more like it..hehe
Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok, Caro just voted to suspend….motion carries.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I prefer just to be sensible
Cindy Ecksol: STUI! motion to schedule another meeting please!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Carolyn Saarinen: This is ridiculous
Sonja Strom: I move to vote on the constitutional amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Cindy Ecksol: (wait sonja — motion to suspend just carried)
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I pass a motion to have more meetings about the previous subject
Cindy Ecksol: ok, second for stui?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Stui
Sonja Strom: oh, okay, sorry – I thought you said it did not carry.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: even though I’m somewhat mystified by the need to do it this way
Cindy Ecksol: all in favor say aye, all opped to more meetings say “nay”
Carolyn Saarinen: more meetings about meetings?
Arria Perreault: aye
Micael Khandr: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Cindy Ecksol: (another meeting to finish discussion th eamendment)
Joaquin Gustav: aye
Cindy Ecksol: whew!
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was tough
StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE
Soro Dagostino: aye
Cindy Ecksol: yeah!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, unanimous and all
Cindy Ecksol: ok, when would you like to meet?
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Nay on this motion and closing and all that mallarky
Carolyn Saarinen: what the Hell WAS that?
Micael Khandr: Later today?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Micael
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Arria Perreault: we can doddle
Gwyneth Llewelyn is free anyway….
Arria Perreault: I am not free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, Arria
Cindy Ecksol: 10th or 17th
Cindy Ecksol: shall we doodle?:
Rose Springvale: before the election.
Arria Perreault: yesssssss
Cindy Ecksol: of course…
Joaquin Gustav: I must go sorry, see you later , thank you
Carolyn Saarinen: Not only am I not free, I’m going to start charging for attending these things!
Rose Springvale: thanks Joaquin
Jamie Palisades: Well, either use Cindy’s doodle web tool, or someone move to set it for the 10th or 17th
Micael Khandr: 10th–so moved
Cindy Ecksol thought she was finally done…
Pip Torok: second
Cindy Ecksol: let’s hear “aye” for those who are ok with the 10th….
Cindy Ecksol: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am happy for meetings before the next election
Micael Khandr: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with the 10th, so, sure ? aye !
Soro Dagostino: aye
StuiChicanne Darkstone: baa !
Arria Perreault: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Sonja Strom: lol
Cindy Ecksol: thank yo uall
Carolyn Saarinen: Two hours of my life went away and nothing happened! Call a doctor
Cindy Ecksol: concerns of citizens? anoouncements?
Jamie Palisades: thats 7 aye, 1 rofl and 1 baa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Rose Springvale: raises hand
Keila Forager: Yes, just one
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Rose Springvale: keila first
StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have watched westminster
Rose Springvale: i’ll wait
Arria Perreault: raises hand
Cindy Ecksol: ok, keila
Keila Forager: Thanks Rose..
Jamie Palisades: are you adjourned? Rose may have announcements
StuiChicanne Darkstone: baaing seems to be the order of the day there
Carolyn Saarinen: Baa-ing or Being
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and you can fiddle your expenses there too
Keila Forager: Mostly about the issue of faction..and any other issues the RA has to deal with..
Keila Forager: Why don’t you send out IM’s or notecards to the citizens and see what they think?? You are supposed to be THEIR representive! And if you don’t know who the citizens are, think outside the box. Look at the citizens in groups, on the tier boxes, on about land tab, at least until you get a list.
Carolyn Saarinen: It’s am Existential crisis
Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks keila….
Cindy Ecksol: rose?
Rose Springvale: three things
Rose Springvale: first, every member of the CDS government has Blue notice rights
StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pass a motion to wish the RA a Happy STU Year… and saying what fun it has been this term
Rose Springvale: in CDS… and you SHOULD also be in AA to send them notices
Rose Springvale: i’m very discouraged that AA gets overlooked for notification and seemingly everythign else… still not showing up on the portal. but that’s another issue
Arria Perreault: Keila, I ask for a list of citizen for a long time
Rose Springvale: what is a major concern of mine is the lack of due process, particularly in the SC
Keila Forager: Think outside the box guys..
Soro Dagostino: Keila — be careful — you will get elected to this zoo.
Rose Springvale: i would like to see the RA put together a commission to develop procedures for notification and public meetings for ALL branches.. as this issue has been a problem for three years now
Rose Springvale: second
Rose Springvale: We have had several new citizens join in the last month
Keila Forager: I’m not in a faction
Rose Springvale: hopefully you all will make an effort to meet them.
Rose Springvale: third
Carolyn Saarinen ponders The Wasp Option
Rose Springvale: the Coptic church has, as we knew it would
Rose Springvale: left the project upon purchase of their own sim
Mikelo Serevi: how are factions getting overlooked?
Rose Springvale: we are all invited to come see them in their new home, see me for a landmark.
Keila Forager will be quiet for a bit
Mikelo Serevi: Don’t notices go out to citizens?
Jamie Palisades: (not if they are not sent, Mikelo)
Rose Springvale: done
Keila Forager: and not if you don’t have them go to email or aren’t in world to see them
Pip Torok: yes Mike, but not specifically soliciting their concerns or POV’s
Patroklus Murakami: could we encourage former AA citizens to join the CDS group? then they would get the notices?
Rose Springvale: remember there are limits on factions as per email contact.
Rose Springvale: there are 342 members of the AA group
Rose Springvale: only about 150 in cds
Rose Springvale: when LL opens up groups, we can, until then
Rose Springvale: just send duplicate notices
Rose Springvale: or give them to someone who will.
Arria Perreault: can we have only one group for CDS. I thought we had merged.
Keila Forager: LOL, open up groups..laughs until falling on the floor..hehe
Rose Springvale: it isn’t practical
Jamie Palisades listens, trying to find Rose’s three points
Patroklus Murakami: why not encourage ppl to join the CDS group in order to receive messages? is there a problem with doing that?
Rose Springvale: especially until after july
Carolyn Saarinen: The AA group is far bigger than CDS
Cindy Ecksol also listening for points and waiting to close the meeting so she can drive across alligator alley
Keila Forager: why CDS group??
Keila Forager: AA has more members, merge to that one..
Rose Springvale: i believe they were all invited, but many already are at capacity
Arria Perreault: the CDS group is for CDS citizen
StuiChicanne Darkstone: we cannot dissolve AA
StuiChicanne Darkstone: if we do so
Keila Forager: and not enough groups
Keila Forager: I’m maxed out
Rose Springvale: what is wrong with duplicate notices? takes 10 seconds
Arria Perreault: if AA want to have a group for the events, it’s something else
Carolyn Saarinen: Get an alt?
Patroklus Murakami: so what, the CDS group is for CDS notices. if u want to receive them, join the group and drop another one
Sonja Strom: AA is a part of the CDS, not the other way around.
StuiChicanne Darkstone: what happens in the event of possible demerging ?
Arria Perreault: did we merge or not?
Cindy Ecksol: there are other option….but how about we debate them at another time?
Jamie Palisades: AA has a large number of theme-interest people. CDS has MORE than citizens, also includes theme-interest people
Jamie Palisades: rose, that was your point 2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, there is not a “citizen’s group”
Cindy Ecksol: or after the meeting is adjourned?
Rose Springvale: then we should ask all cds people and all aa people to drop the group and create an AACDS group.
Keila Forager: I have an alt, but doesn;t do any good if it’s not inworld
Micael Khandr: But AA is in a “test” period as part of CDS–in July, maybe we won’t be . . .
Rose Springvale: if we “merge”
Soro Dagostino: Have to go, cooking brunch — see you all . . .
Arria Perreault: CDS group is for CDS and AA is a part of CDS …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: [11:07] Rose Springvale: second
[11:07] Springvale: We have had several new citizens join in the last month
[11:07] Springvale: hopefully you all will make an effort to meet them.
Keila Forager: Bye Sors
Keila Forager: Soro
StuiChicanne Darkstone: and also you run a risk of leaving people recieving group messages about cultural stuff of which they have no interest (i.e Spam) and spam is a leading cause of people leaving groups
Cindy Ecksol: must run also….someone else can officially adjourn
Cindy Ecksol: bye all!
Micael Khandr: move to adjourn
Patroklus Murakami: bye cindy
Sonja Strom: bye Cindy!
Micael Khandr: second
Arria Perreault: I have an announcement too
Micael Khandr: all in favor dsay baaa
Micael Khandr: Sorry Arria
Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to hear Arria’s announcement first…
Sonja Strom: Just let her say it…
Jamie Palisades: Thanks all Arria?
Micael Khandr: Please, Arria–justy joking . . .
Arria Perreault: it’s not related to the RA. The Monastery is pleased to announce the opening of its new exhibition: Angels
Arria Perreault: come to visit
Carolyn Saarinen: falling asleep, move/vote to adjourn….
Sonja Strom: second
Micael Khandr: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Arria Perreault: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye …
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!

Permalink.

Code Of Laws (40)

TREASURER Responsibilities of the Treasurer

Financial Reporting Act

Proposal by theprincessparisi on Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:23 am

Repealed Code (25)

Proposal to alter the manner in which citizens may sell their land in the CDS.

Procedure for Land Reclamation

RATIONALE FOR THIS IP LICENSING AND CONTENT ARCHIVIST BILL

IP LICENSING AND CONTENT ARCHIVIST BILL

A. License Agreements and License Budget

B. Content Archivist

C. Content Archivist Agreement

“In-theme” Expansion Enablement Bill

Bill to Authorize Private Development in the CDS

Archaic Code (40)

passed 8 February 2006

BILL FOR THE REGISTRATION AND INCORPORATION OF COMPANIES IN NEUALTENBURG

Article 1: Purpose

Article 2: Definitions

Article 3: Registration

Article 4: Requirements for NRC with unlimited liability

Article 6: Obligations and litigation

Article 7: Re-registration

Article 8: Dissolution

Article 9: Fees

Replace the existing CC&R with the following

CDS wide covenants

Neufreistadt Sim-Wide Covenants

Neufreistadt Zone Specific Covenants

Zone O

Zone I

Zone P

Colonia Nova Specific Covenants

Colonia Nova Sim-Wide? Covenants

The following provisions apply to all parcels in the Colonia Nova Sim:

Colonia Nova Zone Specific Covenants:

Zone B (Skybox Quarter)

Zone L (South Riverfront)

Zone R (Villa Quarter)

Zone C (Inner City)

Zone S (Stalls)

Zone T (Special buildings)

Zone E (Cardo Plots)

Zone L (South Riverfront Plots)

Zone B (Skybox Plots)

NL 5-9 Group Land Ownership Act – amended by NL 7-7 21 October 2007

NL 5-10 Microplot Termination Act

NL 5-15 Citizen Information Act

Bill to Re-establish the Citizenship Commission

Amend the Constitution to read:

Amendment to NL5-9 Group Land Ownership Act

The Teleportation Improvement Bill

Commerce Commission Bill

Commercial Development Act

TREASURER

Responsibilities of the Treasurer